# Outbound Lighting --- Hangover --- Discussion



## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

*HANGOVER*

*Note! A lot of the content here is almost 3+ years old now (as of January 2022). Please check the website and some of these pages for the most recent information on Hangover!

Hangover Product Listing Here:*
https://www.outboundlighting.com/products/hangover

*How to mount your light to different helmets:*
How to mount a bike helmet light on different helmets?​

Original post:

We heard you.

We know you wanted a self-contained helmet light for a long time.

We know we can improve on what's out there. We can be lighter, charge faster, and maintain the output more consistently.

So we set out to develop a light, and like the Trail and Road Edition, we thought about a helmet light from the ground up rather than adapting an existing light to fit the role.





​
[HR][/HR]
*This is how we did it: *
For starters, we developed the optic in-house, from the ground up. You can't have a great light without a great optic, so we put hundreds of hours into simulation and prototypes to develop a beam pattern that *fills your entire field of view with the light you need, not just a spot down the trail*.

The silicone TIR optic uses microfacets to finely tune the beam shape, eliminating the typical "round hotspot" edges by redirecting portions of the beam to where you need it most, creating a dramatically smoother beam. Creating a Light Carpet around your periphery allows you to see and react to the whole trail and not get "tunnel vision" with harsh edges. The smoother the beam, the less strain on your eyes, the better you can see and the more comfortable your night ride is.








Then we focused on packaging. We absolutely wanted this to be the slimmest and lightest light on the market. So light you don't even notice it on your head. So we put the battery sideways, used lightweight magnesium for the heat sink, lightweight optical silicone for the lens, and an over-molded poly-carbonate shell to form the top half.

The result is an incredible *100 grams *total weight. Absolutely unheard of for a high powered light.

Combine that featherweight with the fact that we can run this light at *2 hours of runtime *and you start to wonder what else you could possibly need.

[HR][/HR]
*No excuses anymore: Full charge in 1 hour*

Think for a second, how many times have you or a friend said "I can't ride tonight, I forgot to charge my lights." Typical bike lights take 3 hours to charge IF you paid for the "fast charge" feature, 6 hours if you didn't.

With the Hangover, you can get an *hour of runtime in just 30 minutes*, and a full charge in an hour thanks to *standard* *USB-C charging*. That means you can plug it in while you're getting ready, or driving to the trail, and be ready to go.

[HR][/HR]
*American Made Quality.*

Like the Trail and Road Edition, these lights are built in our Chicago workshop. We put a massive amount of engineering work into making sure we can assemble our lights quickly, accurately, and with the highest quality to ensure that we keep production stateside for years to come. Backed with a no-questions-asked warranty and amazing customer service. We want you to be a customer, a friend, and an Outbound rider for life.

[HR][/HR]
*What is included?*


Hangover Light
USB-C charging cable
GoPro Helmet Mount








Prototype shown:

[HR][/HR]
​Much like the Kickstarter we ran a year and a half ago to start Outbound Lighting, we are running a limited pre-order with the greatest savings to be had if you pre-order before June 25th.

We are running our pre-order for *$99* with free shipping. MSRP will be $140 when we are shipping in the fall. Like Kickstarter we will be sending out updates as they arise for production and launching.

https://www.outboundlighting.com/hangover/

This light definitely represents an evolution in our product design. We've learned a lot since the first launch of the Focal Series last year. This is designed to be the perfect compliment to the Trail Edition.

The beam pattern is not as wide as the trail, but provides the extra punch that many have wanted. We are not resorting to crazy output charts to try and have peak numbers that look great for marketing, instead relying on what made the Trail and Road Edition great, the beam pattern, simple UI, and great runtimes.

The USB-C charging is the another massively great feature. Can get 1 hour of runtime with 30 minutes of charging, a full charge in 60 minutes. The battery is a high quality LG Chem 18650 that is paired well with our driver to provide not only a quick charge, but also a good, steady and predictable discharge.

The part assembly was reduced a lot compared to the Focal Edition, which helps us bring the cost down (also going from 4 batteries to 1), we can make these much quicker as we intend for this to be a better product than the Lumina, Urban, and other self-contained battery options out there.

The feel of the light is amazing. The TPU overmold that not only helps waterproof the light entirely, also feels extremely high quality, won't slip in your hands, and is easy to work with. Super proud of how nice this light feels.

The mounting allows for this to tuck closely to the helmet, keeping weight close to your head as well as out of harms way from branches and foliage. The total weight is 100g, for reference a GoPro Hero5 with the frame to mount things is 140g.

Want to get in on the pre-order? Here's a direct link:

Hangover Bike Helmet Light

Let me know any questions you may have!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Sounds great! Is the battery user replaceable/swappable? Inaccessible & sealed inside? Proprietary? Beamshots available?

-Garry


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

garrybunk said:


> Sounds great! Is the battery user replaceable/swappable? Inaccessible & sealed inside? Proprietary? Beamshots available?
> 
> -Garry


Battery will be replaceable. Not field replaceable or hot swappable but easy enough to do on a kitchen table with the right tools (M2 Hex bit). The connector is an actual connector, not soldered joints.

That reminds me of another point. You'll be able to use the light while charging. Aka run a battery pack on your helmet and have it feed this light to really have some crazy runtimes.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Battery will be replaceable. Not field replaceable or hot swappable but easy enough to do on a kitchen table with the right tools (M2 Hex bit). The connector is an actual connector, not soldered joints.
> 
> That reminds me of another point. You'll be able to use the light while charging. Aka run a battery pack on your helmet and have it feed this light to really have some crazy runtimes.


Use while charging..... now that is super cool.

Awesome. Ok, now redesign the trial and the road to be self contained with the same option to be used while charging. . That would be icing on the cake to have all the lights self contented and the user can Make the decision if they need super long times then they can connect a charging battery pack like Anker etc.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Any beam shots? I want throw with a helmet light, can you compare this to say an X2 w/spot optics?


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## MrBucan (Sep 29, 2017)

cue003 said:


> Use while charging..... now that is super cool.
> 
> Awesome. Ok, now redesign the trial and the road to be self contained with the same option to be used while charging. . That would be icing on the cake to have all the lights self contented and the user can Make the decision if they need super long times then they can connect a charging battery pack like Anker etc.


Thumbs up for this, that would be realy awesome! Even though i already have road light! What i realy expect from Matt in the future is a road light with a high and low beam and a remote. And with something like mentioned above ofc.
Great job being in the 100g weight 
Light looks great, i have no doubts in the quality.
I dont do mtb right now but this light looks so nice and i am a big fan of your work so i just might get it anyway

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

What is the estimated date these will be available/shipping?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I see the mode button is top mounted which is perfect :thumbsup:. I may have missed it but am interested in what the IU program is, 3 or 4 mode levels @ what output levels? Light must be very efficient to get 2 hrs. @ 850 lumens from a single 3350 18650 battery which should also squeeze bonus time out of whatever power source was being used for the USB charging while in operation feature making for some super long runtimes! Curious if you think the beam pattern will also work well if the light is bar mounted? I'm impressed! Transferring money to my paypal account. Just need to decide if one of these will be enough.
Mole


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## phalkon30 (Jan 17, 2009)

Standard USB charging meaning USB-PD?

I think you nailed the price, looks great! Charging while running and using USB is a great feature


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## jeremy_burke (Jan 28, 2018)

It looks great and I will be ordering one at least. But will you offer any package deals? With your other lights or maybe buy two get better pricing? Before I order just wanna get the best deal I can.  not that the pre-order deal isn't great just like to know options. Thanks.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

MRMOLE said:


> I see the mode button is top mounted which is perfect :thumbsup:. I may have missed it but am interested in what the IU program is, 3 or 4 mode levels @ what output levels? Light must be very efficient to get 2 hrs. @ 850 lumens from a single 3350 18650 battery . . .
> Mole


Hmm . . . I missed the 850 lumens spec. I know lumens aren't everything (and Matt has proven this), BUT I am wondering if the 850 max is going to be enough, coupled with the fact that this 850 lumens is being spread out to create that "light carpet" and not all focused down the trail? I'm 'wondering how this will compare to a dual XM-L2 light with spot optics pushing 1200 to 1500 lumens.

Field replaceable/swappable battery would have been great, but I'll accept the ability to run from a USB power bank.

-Garry


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

I'll try to get all the answers here in a bit. But please keep in mind that the design target for this light was to compete with the typical self contained lights on the market. A light head with 1500 lumens and an external battery will be better than this, no doubt. That's why the Road Edition is still a great light to have on the head for maximum performance.

We had dozens, if not hundreds of people saying they wanted a light without an external battery pack. So this is our first answer, as well as hitting a lower price point. We didn't comprise on the driver setup or LEDs. The savings comes from less batteries, no wall charger, no case, cheaper shipping, better part consolidation and insanely fast assembly time.

We also aren't resulting to the typical "start blindingly high and pull power fast" tactics that many manufacturers do to get high lumen numbers. All our numbers are calculated with steady state burn or very close to it. So when you turn on the light you aren't going to lose 50% of that claimed lumens in 10 minutes. That's why I hate the FL1 standard.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Outbound said:


> I'll try to get all the answers here in a bit. But please keep in mind that the design target for this light was to compete with the typical self contained lights on the market. A light head with 1500 lumens and an external battery will be better than this, no doubt.


Nice work, Matt. I ordered mine already, based on my experience with being a backer and user of the Trail Edition light. I like the less is more philosophy of maximizing performance with better engineering. That said, I am happy with the performance of my current Gloworm X2 helmet light and I have never been a fan of self contained lights for off-road use. But for only 10g more than the X2 lighthead, I am looking forward to seeing how the Hangover compares and what it's limitations are. Even if it doesn't supplant the X2 as my primary helmet light I will definitely have a use for it. It may become my usual first choice, or an option for certain trails and conditions, or for urban rides. Choices are good, and the correct number of lights to choose from is always n+1.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Seems like a nice work Matt! Looking forward to see some beam shots! What is the color temperature of the CREE's, cool white or more towards neutral white? How does the color temperature compare to the focal series? Do you plan to offer a warm or neutral white and cold white version? Furthermore, is your new light airtight or similar to the focal series equipped with a membrane? I am tempted to order the light although i do not have the need for it..


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## TimothyH (Mar 1, 2017)

How does the mount affix to the helmet? 

I may have missed it in the description.

The photos on the website make it appear as if the mount attaches with sticky tape.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Outbound said:


> ........We also aren't resulting to the typical "start blindingly high and pull power fast" tactics that many manufacturers do to get high lumen numbers. All our numbers are calculated with steady state burn or very close to it. So when you turn on the light you aren't going to lose 50% of that claimed lumens in 10 minutes. That's why I hate the FL1 standard.


Thank you for that!!!!

One of my pet peeves is that some big name light manufacturers pull that stunt. Deceptive at best, IMO, dishonest.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

phalkon30 said:


> Standard USB charging meaning USB-PD?
> 
> I think you nailed the price, looks great! Charging while running and using USB is a great feature


Here's a response from the EE on the USB charging side:

"We're not using USB PD (Power Delivery), we're using USB QC (Quick Charge) protocol. QC enables 5V/3A charging from a large range of chargers without any weirdness in the communication, so if you have a USB charger than can put out 15W, you'll get full power no matter what. PD would be great to reduce charge times even further, but the protocol is much more inconsistent depending on brand, which would reduce the number of chargers that would be truly compatible with our fast charging rate. Meanwhile, any PD-capable charger should also work at 5V/3A with the Hangover. We wanted to make it easy for anyone to find a charger and have it work as advertised, so QC is a better path for the majority of users."


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Alright, Q&A time since now have a few minutes to spare:



> Any beam shots? I want throw with a helmet light, can you compare this to say an X2 w/spot optics?


Once we have the final optic nailed down we'll be doing beam shots. On version 3 right now. An X2 with spot optics will still be more powerful given that it's an external battery, and narrow punch, not really in the same class. Our optic is more like a Lumina 1200 in terms of peak power, but it's a gradient falloff with the light carpet so much like the Trail, your eye can pick up a lot more without that tunnel effect that narrow high power spot lights give you

We are targeting the Lumina, Urban, Buster, and those single cell internal battery lights on the market with this price point and functionality. This is what the majority of the feedback has been, "love your lights, but hate external batteries".



> What is the estimated date these will be available/shipping?


Targeting early fall. I am extremely hesitant to give our an exact date or week since **** happens. However definitely learned from last year and we'll have plenty on hand for the fall rush! But think around September.



> Curious if you think the beam pattern will also work well if the light is bar mounted?


If people are already happy with a Lumina or Urban on the bars (which I've seen a ton of at night races) then this will be a great step up. One of these on the bars and one on the helmet will be a great setup for sure.



> t looks great and I will be ordering one at least. But will you offer any package deals? With your other lights or maybe buy two get better pricing? Before I order just wanna get the best deal I can. not that the pre-order deal isn't great just like to know options. Thanks.


When we get closer we will probably offer some package deals. Right now just trying to keep things simple. In all honesty the package deal will probably still be similar to buying a Trail/Road at normal price now, and the pre-ordered light, so around $300 total vs when we launch the two together would be around $340 if bought individually.



> I know lumens aren't everything (and Matt has proven this), BUT I am wondering if the 850 max is going to be enough, coupled with the fact that this 850 lumens is being spread out to create that "light carpet" and not all focused down the trail? I'm 'wondering how this will compare to a dual XM-L2 light with spot optics pushing 1200 to 1500 lumens.


The major difference is all about the lighting quality. As many have experienced with our current lights, having the smooth falloff makes a massive difference vs the sharp dropoff that a typical bowl reflector light from NR, L&M, MS, etc. provide. The Trail is a very broad and wide even illumination, while this optic is designed with a peaky punch, but very smooth gradient falloff. Here is a picture of it in simulation. For reference... the peak intensity is similar to the NR Boost 1200, except won't see any rings, and a wider falloff.









Can also notice the trapezodial shape that forms the light carpet down below. When the light is mounted on the helmet generally can't see more than 15* above the horizion line, so can see how shifted the light energy around to give some width, but shift the less intense parts of the light from stuff that'd just go into the trees, and putting it more on the ground in front of you.

The whole image was designed around the light following your head in a fixed position, while the Trail was designed so as your handlebars moved you wouldn't lose sight of what you were looking at, so the peak intensity of the Trail is much lower for the tradeoff of very wide illumination.

Another challenge when looking at false image renderings of beam patterns like above is that you might think that you'd still see a really peaky circular spot since the red is so dominant, but that's why we also look at the cross-sectional curves of log intensity because that's how our eyes perceive lighting. So when I design the optic I tweak things so that we have a smooth cross-sectional profile in all ranges. This is the stuff that takes hours of tweaking and simulating, if not days. Combined I'd say I spent about 100-150 hours of design, simulation, and tweaking to get this optic where I felt comfortable.



> What is the color temperature of the CREE's, cool white or more towards neutral white? How does the color temperature compare to the focal series? Do you plan to offer a warm or neutral white and cold white version? Furthermore, is your new light airtight or similar to the focal series equipped with a membrane?


The temperature will be looking to match the Focal, so more on the neutral to warm side of the lights. No plans to offer different colors as that is such a minor part of the market (you guys, who want different temperature options) that it'd be a big ask for us to stock various PCB inventory and SKU's, as well as different assembly tracking to try and meet that desire. This is the light that I hope to scale and eventually find in every bike shop in the country, so assembly speed, costs, packaging, etc are extremely crucial if we are going to keep production in house.

The housing is airtight, have learned from Focal and figured out how to improve it even better. Paying a lot upfront for better tooling and processes. The entire upper housing is going to be overmolded TPU on a PC frame, this lets us integrate the button, status light, seal, frame, and give a great GoPro-like soft-touch feel into one part that is completely waterproof.



> One of my pet peeves is that some big name light manufacturers pull that stunt. Deceptive at best, IMO, dishonest.


Indeed. It's literally one of the most frustrating things to explain to customers. Some people notice it right away, and others don't because their eyes adjust to the light quickly. The other "runtime" standard of FL1 is also stupid IMO since it's the whole "within 10% of original output". When we say 2 hours of runtime we are calculating that we'll have around 75% of original output before it conks out. So more than likely we'll have 2 hours and then do the typical drop-down-to-get-home sort of like the current Focal.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> > One of my pet peeves is that some big name light manufacturers pull that stunt. Deceptive at best, IMO, dishonest.
> 
> 
> Indeed. It's literally one of the most frustrating things to explain to customers. Some people notice it right away, and others don't because their eyes adjust to the light quickly. The other "runtime" standard of FL1 is also stupid IMO since it's the whole "within 10% of original output". When we say 2 hours of runtime we are calculating that we'll have around 75% of original output before it conks out. So more than likely we'll have 2 hours and then do the typical drop-down-to-get-home sort of like the current Focal.


I appreciate that your standards are higher than those of the FL1. I understand that a lot of the larger manufacturers feel they have to "play the game" for maximum marketing advantage but loose FL1 standards allow for output/runtime claims that are extremely inflated from actual usable performance at the expense of the unsuspecting customer. Surprisingly some people don't seem to care at all but I think they're probably more interested in lighting from a utility point of view (price/reliability/adequate illumination) rather than its performance capabilities. I fall into the later category so again, appreciate your honest output and runtime claims. Ordered 2 "Hangovers" this morning!
Mole


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

MRMOLE said:


> I appreciate that your standards are higher than those of the FL1. I understand that a lot of the larger manufacturers feel they have to "play the game" for maximum marketing advantage but loose FL1 standards allow for output/runtime claims that are extremely inflated from actual usable performance at the expense of the unsuspecting customer. Surprisingly some people don't seem to care at all but I think they're probably more interested in lighting from a utility point of view (price/reliability/adequate illumination) rather than its performance capabilities. I fall into the later category so again, appreciate your honest output and runtime claims. Ordered 2 "Hangovers" this morning!
> Mole


Yep, I agree with you. I think more customers are going off of word-of-mouth and recommendations rather than just straight stat comparisons these days. In the automotive side of things it used to be lumen dominated, then more education came out about why Lumens didn't really matter and examples of how bad some claims were exaggerated, and now more people focus on light quality and such. I feel like the biking side of things is starting to get around to that, though we aren't totally there yet.

Plus, honestly, from the customer service side of things I've always been one to underpromise and overdeliver when I can. Creates a happy customer, and makes my job easier. Same thing for reliablity. Thankfully I hardly spend anytime on customer returns or dealing with frustrated customers because we set a standard fairly high for our lights to be reliable and trouble-free. Sure it costs us about 10-15% more in component costs, but if it means my time dedicated for customer service is only about 1-2 hours a week then I'll take that cost increase any day of the week. Shipping returns, new product, troubleshooting, etc all costs a lot of money. Not to mention the time suck.

Was another one of those lessons learned from working with a company that valued part cost over reliability and stuff. Saw how much waste there was when the owner only valued how much he was paying for parts at the beginning of the life-cycle. Was maddening!

Appreciate the order!


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Is this light helmet mount only? I thought you mentioned that a bar mount would be included as well and it could be used on helmet and bar?


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

cue003 said:


> Is this light helmet mount only? I thought you mentioned that a bar mount would be included as well and it could be used on helmet and bar?


It is designed with helmet mounting primarily, and will come with a gopro helmet mount. We have a bar mount that is in design that we _may _be able to include, however since it's just a typical GoPro mounting tab, any kind of bar mount available for GoPro's will work perfectly with this.


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## KingOfTheHill (Sep 19, 2007)

Nice looking light. Reminds me of the Specialized Flux 900/1200, but from what you've written, better.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

KingOfTheHill said:


> Nice looking light. Reminds me of the Specialized Flux 900/1200, but from what you've written, better.


I would say the Flux is more in line with the Road Edition, except the Road edition obliterates the Flux.  I was shocked at how poor the cutoff line was when I got one to take apart. It is mostly due to the combination of small optic and big LED die, which makes light harder to control.

-----------

As for Hangover, we've been amazed at the pre-order volume. Little over 200 preorders in less than a week. Blows away what we did for the Kickstarter on Focal. Still running the 30% off until June 25th, then will be 20%, then 10% then full MSRP once we are shipping. So earlier the better!


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

Maybe I missed this, but are there variable settings, so, for example, you can run at middle or low power settings to extend battery life?

My application is 24-hour solo racing, and needing to manage my lights and batteries/charge through the night.

I currently run a L&M Seca 2000 on the bars (middle setting) and a Gemini Xera on my helmet (middle setting), and that combo gives me ~6 and 3+ hours of battery life, respectively.

TIA...your lights sound pretty cool.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Thanks for answering all these questions!


Outbound said:


> Alright, Q&A time since now have a few minutes to spare[...]
> The temperature will be looking to match the Focal, so more on the neutral to warm side of the lights. No plans to offer different colors as that is such a minor part of the market (you guys, who want different temperature options)[....]


From my point of view, the warmer the better, at least if you want to get more details i.e. in the woods. Most lights (car lights as well) are too much on the cold white side for my liking. 


Outbound said:


> [....]The housing is airtight, have learned from Focal and figured out how to improve it even better[...]


This is good to hear!


Outbound said:


> [....]the other "runtime" standard of FL1 is also stupid IMO since it's the whole "within 10% of original output". When we say 2 hours of runtime we are calculating that we'll have around 75% of original output before it conks out. So more than likely we'll have 2 hours and then do the typical drop-down-to-get-home sort of like the current Focal.[....]


IMHo the only viable thing is to give the power drain of each mode and the battery capacity. Then one can do simply math to get the runtimes. I do not understand why so many companies do not give the power consumption of ther UI modes. Probably because the "cheat"
Based on the battery and runtime the hangover on full power should use 5 to 6 W?
Regarding the drop down: You might consider a mode to override the drop down mode completely (i.e. press the button very long). It is a very good feature, but i personally find it annoying that one cannot override the get home mode in the focal series, if wanted. You could also implement a short flashing sequence of the light once the battery drops below i.e. 15% capacity.



Outbound said:


> I would say the Flux is more in line with the Road Edition, except the Road edition obliterates the Flux.  I was shocked at how poor the cutoff line was when I got one to take apart. It is mostly due to the combination of small optic and big LED die, which makes light harder to control.


Ha, this piece of information explains why the STVZO version of the flux has only ~300 lm, as they probably had to change the die...



waltaz said:


> Maybe I missed this, but are there variable settings, so, for example, you can run at middle or low power settings to extend battery life?[....]


in the specs on the outbound webpage runtimes are given 2...16 hr. However not given how many modes will be available.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

waltaz said:


> Maybe I missed this, but are there variable settings, so, for example, you can run at middle or low power settings to extend battery life?
> 
> My application is 24-hour solo racing, and needing to manage my lights and batteries/charge through the night.
> 
> ...


Yep, we'll have the standard High-Medium-Low. Right now the High 2 hour target was the design intent, and then we'll figure out the Low setting based on what's comfortable during climbing and then figure the medium setting to be what's visually in between high and low.

With the way our beam patterns are designed, it's often not as simple as pointing at the datasheet and saying "50% power". For example, on the Trail Edition there is a medium-high mode that is actually 20% less power draw than the high, butttttt it's nearly impossible to tell the mode changed because of the way our eyes perceive light, especially wide broad even lighting.

So with that in mind, it's going to be real-world testing that'll determine the best balance of brightness and runtime.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

biking_tg said:


> IMHo the only viable thing is to give the power drain of each mode and the battery capacity. Then one can do simply math to get the runtimes. I do not understand why so many companies do not give the power consumption of ther UI modes. Probably because the "cheat"
> Based on the battery and runtime the hangover on full power should use 5 to 6 W?
> 
> Regarding the drop down: You might consider a mode to override the drop down mode completely (i.e. press the button very long). It is a very good feature, but i personally find it annoying that one cannot override the get home mode in the focal series, if wanted. You could also implement a short flashing sequence of the light once the battery drops below i.e. 15% capacity.
> ...


Well, runtime is a tricky *****. Lots of variables including battery age, temperature, cycles and more. Then the fact that the power draw is not always constant (this is where a well designed driver with quality components becomes crucial) means that approximating runtime is always a kind of moving target. Best solution for it is obviously an LCD readout, which is something I hope to be able to work in one of these days.

We'll definitely take into account the override, that's something we got a lot of feedback on from our first lights.

---------

One of the great things to happen recently was getting Tom "Danger" Place onboard with Outbound. He's a former CREE R&D labs manager and certified bike light nut. You might have seen his name on some articles such as this: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/ridden-and-rated-seven-best-mountain-bike-lights.html

Because he's super knowledgeable with the LED and driver side of things, as well as having his hands on almost every bike light out there, he's been able to help elevate the electrical and programming side of OL. Prior to him I paid a contractor an hourly rate to do the development. So it was often done to my specs and not much chance to try out new things, or implement cool features.

With Tom onboard he's got a lot of great ideas for Hangover as well as our future products. It's been great collaboration! He's been continually pushing myself (and himself) to make the best damn light we can, not because of the money, but because he uses these lights on a nearly daily basis out in AZ and wants to address all the shortfalls of lights he's used (and built) in the past.

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Regarding the StVZO lumen levels, I doubt they changed the die, what they probably ended up having to do was to reduce the brightness to just pass the certification because there is a maximum amount of light above the "cutoff" that is allowed. And if they have a crap blurry cutoff then need to pull the brightness to meet that requirement. The minimum brightness for the hotspot is laughably easy to hit even with 100 lumens.


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

Outbound said:


> Yep, we'll have the standard High-Medium-Low. Right now the High 2 hour target was the design intent, and then we'll figure out the Low setting based on what's comfortable during climbing and then figure the medium setting to be what's visually in between high and low.
> 
> With the way our beam patterns are designed, it's often not as simple as pointing at the datasheet and saying "50% power". For example, on the Trail Edition there is a medium-high mode that is actually 20% less power draw than the high, butttttt it's nearly impossible to tell the mode changed because of the way our eyes perceive light, especially wide broad even lighting.
> 
> So with that in mind, it's going to be real-world testing that'll determine the best balance of brightness and runtime.


Thanks for the response! I need to try these out...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Yep, we'll have the standard High-Medium-Low. Right now the High 2 hour target was the design intent, and then we'll figure out the Low setting based on what's comfortable during climbing and then figure the medium setting to be what's visually in between high and low.
> 
> With the way our beam patterns are designed, it's often not as simple as pointing at the datasheet and saying "50% power". For example, on the Trail Edition there is a medium-high mode that is actually 20% less power draw than the high, butttttt it's nearly impossible to tell the mode changed because of the way our eyes perceive light, especially wide broad even lighting.
> 
> So with that in mind, it's going to be real-world testing that'll determine the best balance of brightness and runtime.


Matt,
That sounds fine for light output levels. My suggestion for possible UI program would be to match the pattern used on the Sigma Buster 700. Simple 4 level hi/med/low/flash program that starts out in high and single clicks to the next lowest level ending in the flash mode with another single click to return to high. Additionally double clicking in high takes it to low and double clicking in med and low returns the light to high. End result is the flash mode can be isolated from main program by using the double click option when in low, high is a double click away when in med or low, and when in high a double click will take you to low to deal with oncoming traffic. Very simple easy to use program that covers the needs of both road and mtn. biking and my favorite UI of all the 40 or so lights I currently have. Don't know if you have access to this light to try it out but currently pretty cheap on Amazon ($53). Curious what you think!
Mole


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

MRMOLE said:


> Matt,
> That sounds fine for light output levels. My suggestion for possible UI program would be to match the pattern used on the Sigma Buster 700. Simple 4 level hi/med/low/flash program that starts out in high and single clicks to the next lowest level ending in the flash mode with another single click to return to high. Additionally double clicking in high takes it to low and double clicking in med and low returns the light to high. End result is the flash mode can be isolated from main program by using the double click option when in low, high is a double click away when in med or low, and when in high a double click will take you to low to deal with oncoming traffic. Very simple easy to use program that covers the needs of both road and mtn. biking and my favorite UI of all the 40 or so lights I currently have. Don't know if you have access to this light to try it out but currently pretty cheap on Amazon ($53). Curious what you think!
> Mole


I did grab a Sigma to have in the arsenal of lights to test against. It's an alright light. Compared directly with a Lumina or an urban it's a better deal (can't stand how plasticy it feels though, they really should radii the tool to avoid the sharp edges). However we (myself and Tom) literally cannot stand any light that cycles through a flashing mode. Like the Trail & Road, there will be some flash modes that are separate from the main lighting mode. A triple-click or something similar will get into a flashing mode.

Now that I have sold all my cars and relying solely on my bike for delivering lights to the Post Office, road lighting and use has become pretty important to me. I'll definitely be using my Road light obviously, but also want to use the Hangover flash modes for DRL stuff.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> I did grab a Sigma to have in the arsenal of lights to test against. It's an alright light. Compared directly with a Lumina or an urban it's a better deal (can't stand how plasticy it feels though, they really should radii the tool to avoid the sharp edges). However we (myself and Tom) literally cannot stand any light that cycles through a flashing mode.


Light is definitely different looking, I happen to like it but can see personal taste would factor in on this light. I also hate having to cycle through the flash mode but you don't have to with the Buster unless you choose to do so. When in low you get to flash with a single click but a double click in low will skip over flash and take you to high. My first ride with the Buster I was excited to get out to try the light and didn't really get the UI (not complicated I was just lazy about reading instructions). After actually using the double click feature(s) on a ride I find it works great. Want a 3 level trail program, single click from high to med and med to low and double click back to high (or return to high from med if low is not usable for your trail). Want a hi/low road/path program just double click from high to low and back to high with another double click.
Mole


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Outbound said:


> For example, on the Trail Edition there is a medium-high mode that is actually 20% less power draw than the high, butttttt it's nearly impossible to tell the mode changed because of the way our eyes perceive light, especially wide broad even lighting.
> 
> So with that in mind, it's going to be real-world testing that'll determine the best balance of brightness and runtime.


Agree with you. IMHO the medium-high mode on the focal road edition in the current programming is not needed, as there is barely a perceivable difference. I find the drop between medium-high to medium a bit to much, i miss a mode in between, i.e. one which directly switches to the (constant output) of the adaptive mode, and the medium mode could then be a bit lower.



Outbound said:


> Well, runtime is a tricky *****. Lots of variables including battery age, temperature, cycles and more.


Of course, but with the massive spread of mobile phones each kiddo knows batteries deterioate with time, so a run time is of course only valid with a fresh battery and at ambient temperature (although this is not so well known....) But then being a trained electrochemist, i might be too optimistic about battery knowledge of "normal" folks.

Any chances for a real beam shot before June 25th?


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

biking_tg said:


> Agree with you. IMHO the medium-high mode on the focal road edition in the current programming is not needed, as there is barely a perceivable difference. I find the drop between medium-high to medium a bit to much, i miss a mode which also directly to set the (constant output) of the adaptive mode, and the medium mode could be a bit lower.
> 
> Of course, but with the massive spread of mobile phones each kiddo knows batteries deterioate with time, so a run time is of course only valid with a fresh battery and at ambient temperature (although this is not so well known....) But then being a trained electrochemist, i might be too optimistic about battery knowledge of "normal" folks.
> 
> Any chances for a real beam shot before June 25th?


Hoping to have the production lens within a few weeks. So a hard.... maybe? As soon as I get some and are happy with it we'll definitely post up. We got the production started on the lens early on just in case we do need to make some changes. The other hard parts won't effect the actual output


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

I have ordered 2 of these lights. Just had a thought. Is this helmet light more designed to compliment the road light or the trail light? I want more trail night riding with secondary street use and don’t want to get smacked in the head by branches etc on the trail due to “road” style hard cutoff. The description mentions trail but I just want some clarity.

If I wanted to run one on the helmet and one on the bars is that doable?

Lastly if mounted on bars using appropriate go pro mount will light performance suffer significantly if mounted upside down (under a Garmin bike computer)??


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I hate to be the kill-joy in this discussion but I have my doubts on just how useful this type of light is going to be. However I do like the idea that it is self contained, can run / charge USB-C at the same time AND has the potential for battery switch-out. The reason for my skepticism is because this light is suppose to be designed as a helmet lamp. Now if you are using this for mountain biking and like to ride fast on the downhills then this lamp is not going to give you the throw needed or desired by most. It should however be the absolute "Bee's knee's"_* if you are the type of person who just uses a typical single cell torch on the helmet. _ Most of my 18650 type torches typically work very well on the helmet when MTB'n but most of the ones I have that are very bright ( over 900 lm ) will over-heat if left on high or power down automatically by design after a set short number of minutes ( two minutes or less ). Assuming that that Hangover can maintain it's highest output full time over most of it's est. runtime I find this design feature very refreshing and should make for a great selling point if it actually does what it claims to do.

For road, although I do use a very good thrower torch on helmet I only use it for moments at a time and the ONLY reason I still carry it along is because it has absolutely KILLER throw ( over 300-400 ft. depending on conditions ) This degree of throw comes in very handy when riding at high speeds. Most people ( IMO ) aren't going to use a helmet light full time on the road so as I see it this should attract the person who is likely using a bright light on the bars but just wants something more to compliment the bar light when MTB'n. As I've said before I take the opposite approach; bright bar lamp but a much brighter helmet lamp.

Now with all this said if I was the type of MTBer who started rides in the early evening while it was still enough daylight to see by but wanted something to help me get back after if got dark ( or just did two hour night rides ), this new helmet light would be perfect; particularly if say you are running something like a Raveman PR-1200 or new 1600 ( both self contained lamps ) on the bars and then the Outbound Hangover on the helmet. Of course if you ran the MTB version of the original Outbound lamp on the bars the beam tints would likely be very similar ( or so I would like to think ) and output with the original Outbound lamps should be brighter than the Raveman's.

I am surprised that many are pulling the trigger on this new lamp so fast so obviously not everyone thinks the way that I do. I'm more the "wait and see" type of guy unless I'm really convinced that the the lamp will do what the manufacturer claims it will do. With newer designs I tend to be more, "wait and see".


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

cue003 said:


> I have ordered 2 of these lights. Just had a thought. Is this helmet light more designed to compliment the road light or the trail light? I want more trail night riding with secondary street use and don't want to get smacked in the head by branches etc on the trail due to "road" style hard cutoff. The description mentions trail but I just want some clarity.
> 
> If I wanted to run one on the helmet and one on the bars is that doable?
> 
> Lastly if mounted on bars using appropriate go pro mount will light performance suffer significantly if mounted upside down (under a Garmin bike computer)??


This is definitely designed around the Trail Edition on the handlebars. Though I certainly intend to use the light on my head while I commute in Chicago on low or flashing DRL to act as a "see me" light in addition to the Road on the handlebars.

Definitely doable. I know lots of people often run two of the same lamps both on the head and helmet.

The performance hit won't be as drastic as the Trail or Road mounted upside down, since this is certainly far more spotty, but more of a trapezodial pattern as you can see in some of the pictures posted earlier in this thread. Testing will determine whether it really is a bad idea or not.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Cat-man-do said:


> I hate to be the kill-joy in this discussion but I have my doubts on just how useful this type of light is going to be. However I do like the idea that it is self contained, can run / charge USB-C at the same time AND has the potential for battery switch-out. The reason for my skepticism is because this light is suppose to be designed as a helmet lamp. Now if you are using this for mountain biking and like to ride fast on the downhills then this lamp is not going to give you the throw needed or desired by most. It should however be the absolute "Bee's knee's"_* if you are the type of person who just uses a typical single cell torch on the helmet. _ Most of my 18650 type torches typically work very well on the helmet when MTB'n but most of the ones I have that are very bright ( over 900 lm ) will over-heat if left on high or power down automatically by design after a set short number of minutes ( two minutes or less ). Assuming that that Hanover can maintain it's highest output full time over most of it's est. runtime I find this design feature very refreshing and should make for a great selling point if it actually does what it claims to do.


You bring up a good point about the thermals. This is where almost every single self-contained high power light on the market falls short. Why? Because they are putting an incredibly intense heat source deep inside a poorly designed housing that can't take the heat or shed it fast enough.

Notice how we have 6 LED's? This isn't an aesthetic design choice. It started out as a thermal requirement. We are able to get the 800-900 lumen target by deliberately under-driving the CREE XQ-E HI LED's so that they run cooler and more efficiently. Then by spreading that heat load out across the entire face of the light (along with a direct thermal path to the large magnesium outer shell) means that the thermals are actually able to maintain the output easily compared to a high power single die LED that's being overdriven past it's nominal ratings and can only last 2 minutes to meet that magical FL1 spec, and then pull power and crap out fast in order to have any kind of usable runtime.

So once you look past the "only 800-900" lumens and realize that we are serious about how to maintain that output even in hot climates (Tom the EE rides regularly in Sedona, AZ and is out every night in the desert) along with getting rid of the marketing B.S. numbers and focusing solely on how to make a great light, then can probably start to see why people are excited about this.

I'll share what Tom had posted on his social media when we launched the pre-order. It is why we both get along very well and agree on many things when it comes to quality and getting through the B.S. We are both engineers more focused on making a product we are proud of, and will use everyday then we are on making large amount of profit. If we wanted to make a quick buck would make another single-die internal LED flashlight, call it the greatest thing ever, put cheap batteries in it, and delete any negative comments that came our way.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> You bring up a good point about the thermals. This is where almost every single self-contained high power light on the market falls short. Why? Because they are putting an incredibly intense heat source deep inside a poorly designed housing that can't take the heat or shed it fast enough.
> 
> Notice how we have 6 LED's? This isn't an aesthetic design choice. It started out as a thermal requirement. We are able to get the 800-900 lumen target by deliberately under-driving the CREE XQ-E HI LED's so that they run cooler and more efficiently. Then by spreading that heat load out across the entire face of the light (along with a direct thermal path to the large magnesium outer shell) means that the thermals are actually able to maintain the output easily compared to a high power single die LED that's being overdriven past it's nominal ratings and can only last 2 minutes to meet that magical FL1 spec, and then pull power and crap out fast in order to have any kind of usable runtime.
> 
> ...


Great Post! Important for me since I ride in the desert (and anyone else who rides in a warm climate). To meet your output/runtimes/consistency claims Hangover must be significantly more efficient than its competition @ max output. Looking forward to testing the light out for myself. Also happy to hear you'll getting input from Tom in the future since his riding environment is more similar to mine than the forested areas you ride in.
Mole


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Outbound said:


> .....The performance hit won't be as drastic as the Trail or Road mounted upside down, since this is certainly far more spotty, but more of a trapezodial pattern as you can see in some of the pictures posted earlier in this thread. Testing will determine whether it really is a bad idea or not.


There really would be no need to mount one upside down under a computer. Plastic mount extensions are available. Something like this....

https://www.amazon.com/Rec-mounts-Extension-Adapter-Gopro-GP-GP-S3550/dp/B00G4UV9JG

If there was concern about strength of a plastic extension, I make an aluminum adapter for StVZO dyno lights to mount in the correct orientation under computers. Would not take much to tweak the design to work with this light. Then you would also keep the operating button on top for better access too.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Outbound said:


> ...Notice how we have 6 LED's? This isn't an aesthetic design choice. It started out as a thermal requirement. We are able to get the 800-900 lumen target by deliberately under-driving the CREE XQ-E HI LED's so that they run cooler and more efficiently. Then by spreading that heat load out across the entire face of the light (along with a direct thermal path to the large magnesium outer shell) means that the thermals are actually able to maintain the output easily compared to a high power single die LED that's being overdriven past it's nominal ratings and can only last 2 minutes to meet that magical FL1 spec, and then pull power and crap out fast in order to have any kind of usable runtime.
> 
> So once you look past the "only 800-900" lumens and realize that we are serious about how to maintain that output even in hot climates (Tom the EE rides regularly in Sedona, AZ and is out every night in the desert) along with getting rid of the marketing B.S. numbers and focusing solely on how to make a great light, then can probably start to see why people are excited about this.


Hmmm...very interesting. You are beginning to convince me ( and doing it without Jedi mind tricks...of which I am immune  ) After looking at the specs on the Cree XQE-Hi I think this lamp could indeed be very successful. A lot though depends on what CCT range you chose to work with and how well you manage to get the optics to intermingle so to create that 850-900 lumen cumulative effect.

If you are under powering the emitters I'm figuring your trying to get each to output a max of about 142-150 lumen. Should be able to do this by running each emitter @~500-600ma. Since that's almost half of the maximum recommended current I would think managing the heat should be quite doable, even in a warmer climate.

The real question though is, "How good are you _Master Jedi of the Optics_ at making this into a usable beam pattern that will facilitate a viable helmet lamp.

I know I said some time ago that I probably wasn't going to buy another helmet lamp. What I failed to say then was that I didn't need a brighter lamp. This lamp is sort of a horse of a different color so to speak. I might be interested in buying one of these myself if the price is not too steep and I like the beam pattern. Of course beam tint is important too so I'd like to know ASAP what CCT or Kevin range you are aiming at using.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Cat-man-do said:


> ....Of course beam tint is important too so I'd like to know ASAP what CCT or Kevin range you are aiming at using.


 Outbound wrote in Post #18 that he plans to mach the focal series in color temp, so "more on neutral to warm side", but didn't give a number.
However in the focal series discussion he mentioned the color code of the Altilon chip (4A, datasheet says 5680 K). In a different post there (post #809) he mentioned that the light gets a bit warmer after passing the reflector and silicon lens and has in the end "mid 4000 K". He uploaded a comparison of a cold white b&m ixon with the focal.
Can only speak for the focal road, but this light is notably warmer in direct comparison to a standard lupine (with rated 6000K LED). Haven't had the chance to compare it to a officially rated 4000K or 5000K lamp, though


Outbound said:


> [...] Notice how we have 6 LED's? This isn't an aesthetic design choice. It started out as a thermal requirement. We are able to get the 800-900 lumen target by deliberately under-driving the CREE XQ-E HI LED's so that they run cooler and more efficiently.[...]


 Definitely a well designed product, accepting the penalties on weight and dimension of the bigger lamp housing (compared to a two or single die lamp) for having a more useful steady output.


Outbound said:


> Hoping to have the production lens within a few weeks. So a hard.... maybe? As soon as I get some and are happy with it we'll definitely post up.[...]


 Beam shots might convince me to get one, although i am not doing much trail riding. But might come handy for smaller, more straight trails which i ride with my cyclocross bike in the woods as a supplement to my SL-F in high beam mode.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

biking_tg said:


> Definitely a well designed product, accepting the penalties on weight and dimension of the bigger lamp housing (compared to a two or single die lamp) for having a more useful steady output.


My design process started out by looking at a Jeep JL wrangler and the new Cherokee LED headlight. Now you won't notice what's really going on inside of it unless you look straight into the lens (while off.... please). Automotive Lighting (name of the company, will refer to it as AL) came up with a pretty unique method of projecting the light. It has 12 LED's (7 for low, 5 for high) that are focused onto the cutoff shield via TIR lenses, then the image is flipped via the large outer lens. Now this exact style of light control wasn't going to work for bikes because the focal length is too big. However in the technical papers it was mentioned about how this was an exercise in thermal control.

Automotive headlights have one of the toughest thermal situations... It sits inside a hot engine bay, it needs to last for dozens of years, so ideally no fans or anything, yet it needs to be lightweight, cheap, dead reliable, absolutely waterproof, and yet still shed about 15-30W of heat.

So there is a lot of analysis and tech put into how to disperse the heat and if you go searching deep enough can often find the technical whitepapers. Along with some really novel ways of doing image projection. It is why I find the field so fascinating. There is no other field of lighting that is so constrained by technical and performance regulations, yet requires innovative solutions to reach cost and styling requirements, so there is a lot of cool stuff that comes out of it.

I had actually posted a picture of this headlight way back in October on our Instagram when I was doing the initial designs and validating my ideas. Was my source of inspiration putting this weird optic next to a single 18650 battery and having that "aha" moment of how to make this work.









Before playing with the optic and that battery I was starting to go down the path of a 3 die light like the Knog, or a single die light with an innovative beam shaping single TIR optic but wasn't really happy with any of those potential avenues so I kept just sketching and thinking about it. In fact the "idea" of doing a self contained 18650 was started pretty much right after the kickstarter where I had gotten a lot of the comments of "well I would buy, but I hate external battery packs", but could never land on anything that felt unique enough to actually stand out in the sea of flashlights that I'd actually feel proud to sell.

I didn't want to just make a Lumina, Urban, Buster clone and call it a day, I want to shake things up.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

I like what I am seeing here. For riding in the woods at night, I think the mega-lumen lights are overkill. I don't run my lights on the highest settings, partially to preserve the batteries, but also because it kills my night vision, which at some point offsets the benefit of the extra brightness. Public road with street lights and car lights is a different scenario, but I don't ride road.

I run a flood on the bars, and a spot on my helmet. Both beam patterns are terrible out of the box. I always thought it was a dumb way of doing things. I don't need to light up the trees or my front tire, but I do want a wider beam. I was able to swap to a wide-beam lens on my MJ helmet light, which helped greatly. The flood on the bars still stinks, so I run it on the lowest setting, and rely mostly on the helmet light.

Looking at the illustration of the beam pattern, I think I would want it even wider and flatter, but I can't really tell without seeing it on the trail. It's definitely better than a round pattern.

Having the option to ride with a separate battery backup for longer rides / emergencies is a big deal; good thinking there.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

I guess it would have been too big or heavy to make it a 2x battery light and thereby increase the size of the heat sink and possibly double the output while maintaining runtime? I know it isn’t that simple hence why you are doing the designing and I am doing the armchair engineering/asking.


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## TimothyH (Mar 1, 2017)

2nd time I've asked the question in this thread.

How does the mount attach to the helmet? 

Strap? Sticky tape? Velcro?


-Tim-


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## infinityzak (Jan 18, 2007)

TimothyH said:


> 2nd time I've asked the question in this thread.
> 
> How does the mount attach to the helmet?
> 
> ...


Its an integrated GoPro mount. So any GoPro mount will work including Strap based helmet mounts, stick on mounts (I use these, mine has been attached to my helmet for ~2 years), etc.


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## incubus (Jan 20, 2004)

TimothyH said:


> 2nd time I've asked the question in this thread.
> 
> How does the mount attach to the helmet?
> 
> ...


It depends on your helmet and perhaps your choice of adhesive.

Personally, my helmet came has an integrated GoPro mount. So no to a strap, no to sticky tape and no to Velcro.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

TimothyH said:


> 2nd time I've asked the question in this thread.
> 
> How does the mount attach to the helmet?
> 
> ...


Sorry, thought I had mentioned it before. It'll come with a standard GoPro helmet mount like what infinityzak just posted. We already include these in our Downhill Package. Given that the GoPro style mount is about as much of a standard as we can get in biking, that is why decided to just fully integrate it into the housing itself. No weird adapters or anything.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

cue003 said:


> I guess it would have been too big or heavy to make it a 2x battery light and thereby increase the size of the heat sink and possibly double the output while maintaining runtime? I know it isn't that simple hence why you are doing the designing and I am doing the armchair engineering/asking.


Now you are starting to talk about future product lines.  Overall goal is to eventually move all the lights to this architecture of design. We've taken all the profit from Focal and put it straight into the design, prototyping and tooling startup of this new light, and then we'll take the profit from this light and re-invest it into the next light, and so on. Our goal isn't crazy rapid growth, or could have tried to get some investor to put in $300k and maybe we could have 4-6 products going on right now.

Taking it as it comes, learning from our mistakes, honing the budget, marketing, etc. to get lean and just focus on making a quality product.


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## Tunnelrat81 (Nov 13, 2011)

Hi Matt,

I'm just catching up on this thread following your product announcement email a couple weeks ago. My wife has been happily using the Road Edition as her primary commuting/early morning light since shortly after launch, so I'm excited to see this fresh discussion for an exciting new light. 

I have a question. Being that you are space/weight limiting this light to run from a single internal cell, would you mind sharing your reasons for using an 18650 instead of the slightly larger 21700? I don't know what the weight comparison is, so maybe that alone would answer my question, but it seems like it would be simpler to fit the slightly larger single cell 21700 than it would to design enough room for a second 18650. Wouldn't the run time increase be fairly significant?

I've occasionally seen reference around this forum to the larger 21700 *(or maybe it was the 20700), suggesting that it is only a matter of time before they are developed into a bike light. It seems to me that a self contained, USB chargeable light would be the perfect way to implement such a change (not having to worry about compatibility with existing chargers/battery packs etc..).

*edited to add

-Jeremy


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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

TimothyH said:


> 2nd time I've asked the question in this thread.
> 
> How does the mount attach to the helmet?
> 
> ...


Some awesome helmets (like Bontrager) have detachable magnetic GoPro mounts!


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## TimothyH (Mar 1, 2017)

Outbound said:


> Sorry, thought I had mentioned it before. It'll come with a standard GoPro helmet mount like what infinityzak just posted. We already include these in our Downhill Package. Given that the GoPro style mount is about as much of a standard as we can get in biking, that is why decided to just fully integrate it into the housing itself. No weird adapters or anything.


Thank you.

Does it come with the portion of the mount that attached to the helmet or does that have to be purchased separately?

-Tim-


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I like the built in mounts some helmets have for mounting traditional shaped self-contained lights but for something like the Hangover their universal top mounting negates the advantage of being able to mount the Hanover lower and mote out of the way on the front of the helmet. Strap mounts offer a little more flexibility in mounting positions and will work for multiple helmets. The stick on ones may be permanent but for most helmets offer the most flexibility of mounting positions for ideal placement of your light. Pick your poison!
Mole


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

TimothyH said:


> Does it (Bontrager helmet mount) come with the portion of the mount that attached to the helmet or does that have to be purchased separately?...-


The mount comes with helmets that accept it. It's in the box, not attached. I have one and like it.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

TimothyH said:


> Thank you.
> Does it come with the portion of the mount that attached to the helmet or does that have to be purchased separately?
> -Tim-


It seems with all the "mounting" stuff things get confusing. I will use the term "go pro mount" for the item which is fixed on the helmet and where the lamp (or a goPro) is fixed. The lamp has the fitting "adapter" included in the housing, as can be seen on the picture in post 1.

And as far as i understood all those posts from outbound here, the "go pro mount" for the helmet is included with the hangover lamp and you do not need to buy another one (unless you do not like the provided model). See therefore post#1 "what's included" plus this post:


Outbound said:


> It is designed with helmet mounting primarily, and *will come with a gopro helmet mount*.[...]


and this post


Outbound said:


> Sorry, thought I had mentioned it before. It'll *come with a standard GoPro helmet mount* like what infinityzak just posted. We already *include these in our Downhill Package*.[...]


So if you check outbound's website, section shop/downhill package you see in the description in what's included "GoPro Helmet Mount Kit" together with a picture of it. Seems like sticky tape


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## infinityzak (Jan 18, 2007)

MRMOLE said:


> I like the built in mounts some helmets have for mounting traditional shaped self-contained lights but for something like the Hangover their universal top mounting negates the advantage of being able to mount the Hanover lower and mote out of the way on the front of the helmet. Strap mounts offer a little more flexibility in mounting positions and will work for multiple helmets. The stick on ones may be permanent but for most helmets offer the most flexibility of mounting positions for ideal placement of your light. Pick your poison!
> Mole


Agreed. That is why I like the stick on mounts, if your particular helmets allows a decent surface area to adhere to at the front.

Mine is a bit higher then i would like, I've been toying with the idea of some sort of extension like below.









https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...6a-409e-aeb1-9ebd5cf05b3d&transAbTest=ae803_5

Hopefully it would allow me to mount further forward and lower.


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## xcandrew (Dec 30, 2007)

Outbound said:


> It is designed with helmet mounting primarily, and will come with a gopro helmet mount. We have a bar mount that is in design that we _may _be able to include, however since it's just a typical GoPro mounting tab, any kind of bar mount available for GoPro's will work perfectly with this.


Have you tried this on a headstrap yet? I don't wear a helmet when trail running, cross country skiing, or even most easy biking - assuming this would have a good beam pattern for those activities. It seems like the balance might not be good on a headstrap with the weight sticking out the front, mount in the back.

Maybe one of the GoPro extenders sticking up and back so the lamp is balanced over the headstrap would work?


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Tunnelrat81 said:


> Hi Matt,
> 
> I'm just catching up on this thread following your product announcement email a couple weeks ago. My wife has been happily using the Road Edition as her primary commuting/early morning light since shortly after launch, so I'm excited to see this fresh discussion for an exciting new light.
> 
> ...


Forgot to address this.

Main reason, weight. Second reason, cost. Third reason, didn't really gain much.

The 21700 cell adds an additional 30g or so. Doesn't sound like a lot, but I was dead set determined to get under 100g total weight for the light itself.

They are also still quite expensive compared to the 18650 at this current time. Next year might be totally different. Plus supply is somewhat tough and not super reliable with my suppliers. Surprise surprise, almost every major OEM is sucking up all the batteries worldwide. While 18650's in varying power densities and quality can purchased easily and be ready to go with custom protection circuits and wiring quickly.

Then the whole tradeoff of weight, cost, and actual performance gain. With the quick-charge and pass-through charging that this light allows, we collectively agreed that getting an extra 20-30 minutes of runtime on a single light that is already pushing 2 hours of solid runtime on high wasn't really worth all the tradeoff's. Now if we were still working with microUSB, or didn't have passthrough charging then it might be a different discussion since that then could be a key differentiation to those on the market besides the weight and optics. Plus the cost offset of USB-C vs Micro USB probably would have covered the increased cost of 21700 vs 18650.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Forgot to address this.
> 
> Main reason, weight. Second reason, cost. Third reason, didn't really gain much.
> 
> ...


My guess is unless you find a way to mass market to all the riders in the LBS's (and increase your production accordingly) or one of the major manufacturers figures out a way to make their lights as efficient as yours the 21700 batteries will be the cheap easy way for them to match your runtimes with their current single emitter designs. They will be slightly more expensive, larger and heavier but better lights because of their increased battery capacity but also should be more easily recognizable why the Hangover is a better light design.
Mole


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Yep, always the risk of competition coming in and swooping things up. Currently the lightest of the lights is 135g or so, going to 21700 adds another 35g right off the bat with the battery, not to mention the larger case and such, so can probably estimate that they'd be sitting at almost 180g unless they completely restructured the lights all together. We are right at the limit of potential weight reduction for a high power light. I could probably squeeze another 10g of weight out using some different design approaches, but even thermally conductive plastics are about the same density of die cast magnesium so even different materials won't change things much.

And quite frankly, I'm not too worried. If they come out with a new 21700 then okay their runtimes might be close to what we can offer, but their beam patterns will still be circular spots. 

Now if they come out with 21700, with USB-C, and a really nice properly engineered beam pattern at a cheaper price point and feels as nice as ours.... okay maybe I'll be worried, but at that point I'm going to let our customer service, dealer programs, and ability to pivot and make changes fast be the key differentiator. And if it got to that point it'd be awesome. Means that more people are taking night riding seriously, enjoying it, and the ability to compare lights is going to come down more to how well one can judge a lamp by runtime, constant output, beam pattern width, depth, peak intensitys, color, etc. instead of just reported FL1 lumens and runtime, which we all know suck.


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## jeremy_burke (Jan 28, 2018)

Ordered mine a few days ago. Hope they make it out before October. Fingers crossed it all goes well for you and us.


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Got mine on order as well to replace my aging Exposure Diablo. Coming from the Diablo I'd like to put in one request. A 1 hour bright mode. I get a ton of rides in early fall or late spring that require less than an hour of light. It'd be nice to max it out for those rides. I also using it splitboarding at night, which also require less than an hour.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Damn, Instagram really doesn't want us to see those beamshots!


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Velodonata said:


> Damn, Instagram really doesn't want us to see those beamshots!


I've been itching to post on here all day.  Finally got a chance to get to the desktop.

So here are some of the near production-quality prototype optics. We are already going to tighten things up a hair to bump up the peak lux on the hotspot, but we are about 80% where we want to be in terms of the beam quality and intentions.

Remember, this is with around 800 lumens, being pushed through hand-polished optics rather than production grade PMMA so the quality will only get better from here. The light being compared starts with an N, ends with an A, rhymes with Lumens, and is the similar price point model. So using around 1000-1100 lumens depending on who you believe.

Can see a similar philosphy that I like to follow. Little wider and smoother hotspot, but more mid-range fall-off and lots of foreground illumination to make the surrounding areas appear more well lit and allow your eye to take in more information. We are able to get a lot of the ambient lighting due to the blended TIR approach. It's mostly uncontrolled scatter but it's even enough that it's not an issue in terms of strong artifacts.

































Note this last one. That's JUST hangover, that's not the Trail Edition turned on (you can tell since the status lights are off). I think helps show that the light on it's own will actually be a decent bar light too.

So yea. We are pretty amped about this. We know what to improve on as production starts up. Tooling has been getting cut, and we are finalizing the SMT schedule. Working on business financing to get over 2000 (potentially 3000) units to start so that we won't run out again in the fall.

In the last 5 weeks we have had over 400 pre-orders. Initially I was planning on maybe 1000 units to start, never thought the demand would be this strong!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> I've been itching to post on here all day.
> 
> So here are some of the near production-quality prototype optics. We are already going to tighten things up a hair to bump up the peak lux on the hotspot, but we are about 80% where we want to be in terms of the beam quality and intentions.


:thumbsup: Are you still shooting for a 80 lux max. or something higher? Beamshots look good. Thanks!!! 
Mole


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Wow...Are those beam shots of the comparison light correct? Is there really just dead black space with what looks like no light bleed/scatter to form a perfect circle of tunnel vision type light? I am assuming that the light I’m looking at is the same one that starts with a N and ends with an A 1200 lumen light running on boost mode. 

The Hangover is coming together nicely and is looking to be able to stand proudly on its own legs.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Here's the thing about trying to take photos of lamps that you are trying to display to show throw; No photo is ever going to be able to display what the eye sees in real life. Particularly true if the lamp also has a great deal of spill ( Which ) this ones does without a doubt. That's because the camera will react to the close in spill and effect the display of the distance throw. 

In the last photo can you tell us the distance from the bike to the last skinny little tree on the right (?) From the last photo I can detect a semblance of a central hot spot although it is blended very well with the rest of the beam pattern ( very well done if I do say ). 

Although I know that the Hangover lamp is not in it's finally stage of design I can't help but think that a little extra power ( maybe 1000-1200 lumen ) might be the better way to go. 800 is not bad but on those fast MTB down-hills I'd feel better having a bit more power to increase the distance throw. With the lamp I currently use on the helmet ( Wiz XP-3 ) I usually cruise with the lamp in my medium mode programmed somewhere around 600-800 lumen although I have no way to measure that so that is my ball park est. Most of the time I'm quite happy with that. I only turn on the boost mode when on the most technical of fast-moving downhills. 

A couple more comments; With the limited battery size / capacity a wireless remote would come in real handy with a lamp like the Hangover. That's because when you use a lamp that is using a self-contained battery you want to be sure to only use the amount of light ( power ) that you actually need for the moment ( so you don't run out of power prematurely ). To do that without a wireless remote means you will be reaching up to the helmet on a regular basis. I do this with my XP-3 because it doesn't use a wireless remote but since I use an external battery it's not a big deal to use the mid-mode as much as I want. Also in keeping with the same thought ( being conservative with the battery ) would be a nice touch if you could program the modes for the output that you ( the user ) find the most useful.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

cue003 said:


> Wow...Are those beam shots of the comparison light correct? Is there really just dead black space with what looks like no light bleed/scatter to form a perfect circle of tunnel vision type light? I am assuming that the light I'm looking at is the same one that starts with a N and ends with an A 1200 lumen light running on boost mode.
> 
> The Hangover is coming together nicely and is looking to be able to stand proudly on its own legs.


Yep, circle beam patterns tend to do that. However the iPhone being used does have the limitations that it can't pickup the low-light scatter that occurs from bounces off trees, or even the lenses itself. So it's not quite "pitch black" in person, but it's very very dark and has that sharp cutoff.

Prettyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy close on that guess of which light it is. However this can also extend to really any bowl-type reflector since by the inherent nature of the design, you'll end up with a sharp ring unless you put some heavy filters on the outside of the lens.

That is where the blended TIR approach comes in handy, it allows for a mix of concentrated directed light, but also provides some scatter to fill the surroundings.

We have already made some larger design changes to the lens, should have legit production samples in 3 weeks or so, and once we green-light that we'll have 3000 units about 4-5 weeks after that. Main change is that we are severely reducing the amount of facets on the front, potentially going to a smooth face. Tweaked the actual TIR design a bunch based on the feedback that Tom provided to get a smoother beam with a little more punch. Actually pulled the overall beam pattern in about 5* on each side and changed the distribution a bit.


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## bigolclyde (Aug 1, 2011)

In on the preorder, excited to try, looks like a great light.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Would this converter work for my current battery packs to use with this light head, should I need the extra run time? (My packs have the standard magicshine connectors)

https://www.newegg.com/p/2VH-001M-0...VCdtkCh3sVQ-vEAQYCiABEgIOk_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Mestapho, it might, I can't guarantee anything given I haven't tested it. 

Status update with the Hangover.

We have all the suppliers lined up. Hard part samples are arriving next week and we'll have about 30 units floating around getting tested and reviewed. We are doing all the SMT, PCBA, and final assembly at mHub in downtown Chicago. Awesome small startup accelerator that caters to hardware, been invaluable so far in helping to scale the business. 

We are still on target for early-fall delivery. I don't want to promise a specific date until we have the hard part samples in hand and approved. Since any small changes might set things back a few weeks. 

With that in mind, once we approve the hard parts we are going to drop the Pre-Order pricing from 30% off to 15%. So only another week or so to save the most!


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Awesome update. Thank you for that. Will this light also have the “limp” home feature where it cuts light output and is not user controlled to enable/disable that feature? I know there was discussion in the road/trail thread of your other lights and you said you will have to further investigate possible changes etc. Will those changes also be incorporated here? Any chances for user upgradeable firmware for changes/feature enhancements so we don’t have to send the light back to you?


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

cue003 said:


> Awesome update. Thank you for that. Will this light also have the "limp" home feature where it cuts light output and is not user controlled to enable/disable that feature? I know there was discussion in the road/trail thread of your other lights and you said you will have to further investigate possible changes etc. Will those changes also be incorporated here? Any chances for user upgradeable firmware for changes/feature enhancements so we don't have to send the light back to you?


We'll definitely be improving the software to make sure there is a true override. This won't be nearly as aggressive.

As for future software updates. Solid.... maybe? Since there is a USB plug it certainly opens up the door to that, however we are still programming the boards via pins on the PCB itself. So I would have to check if we even have traces going to the USB to allow for future updates.


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## UncleJeff (Aug 16, 2019)

I just placed my order for a Hangover!

This will be my very first bike light. I've written MTBs for a couple decades and dirtbikes even longer. Although I've taken my dirtbikes out at night (w/ stock headlights) and had some fun, I've never been out at night with a MTB. So, I recently decided this winter it was time and began researching. 

Since it was my first light, I wanted to keep the cost low to learn if I like riding at night and what I wanted from my lights. So I set my price point for a system around $100 and around a 2 hr runtime. Pretty quickly I homed in on a system of 2 NR Lumina Micro 850s. For $95, I could have 1 for the bars and 1 for the helmet. But, I'd need to add $15 for a GoPro mount for the helmet application. Doing further searches I stumbled across a YouTube video posted the Outbound Road and Trail lights. I was really impressed with the Trail and Trail/Road combo, so I looked up this company I had not heard of yet. That's how I found the Hangover.

As a product development engineer, I appreciate the information and detailed design discussion on the website and in this thread. Also, I totally followed the logic behind the decisions made to arrive at the design (Must Haves, Trade Offs, etc.). My experience riding dirtbikes at night also told me that the light carpet and brightness gradient vs round w/ hot center approach was much more effective. 

So, I placed my order while the 30% off price was still available. 

The Hangover may not be my final solution, but I'm pretty certain it will be part of it. It will certainly be a great start point and I doubt I'll be disappointed.

Thanks everyone, especially Outbound Lighting, for having the discussion. It was a big help in my decision process.


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## stu06 (Dec 8, 2012)

Hi Matt,

How does the Hangover beam pattern compare with the Seca 2500?


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

Outbound said:


> Yep, always the risk of competition coming in and swooping things up. Currently the lightest of the lights is 135g or so,


I am using now ~7 Years Zerbas H600 on my Helmets.
They are ~39 grams with 18650 cell what is 45 gram you have a total of 84 grams.

A empy cell is to change with a handle.
The beam looks similar to your beamshots what you have posted.

Zebras a offerd in 6000K, 5000K and 4000K high CRI options.

Zerba always update there lights to actual LED generations.

At moment XHP50 Series what give you in compare to your light 2 Hours in 800 Lumen coz the LED drains only 1,5 Amps do deliver that Output.

there are a lot of other Helmets lights like the Zebras on the market.



Outbound said:


> Now if they come out with 21700, with USB-C,


Also long time Existing,
Acebeam H30 what ist 80 grams, wit 21700 cell 144 grams.
about the XHP70 the real runtimes and outputs.

1150 Lumen for 3 Hours.
or 2200 Lumen for 1,5 Hours.

And now the Question coz i dont understand what you write.

You put into this light 6x XQ-E HI LEDs right?
i have measured this LED on the highes bins some years ago an never reach at ~300-350ma current 100 Lumens output in a light sphere.

or if it is easyer,
This LED not Reach 100 lumens/1 Watt Power.
6 of them together need more then 8 Watt on Power to Reach 600 LED Lumens.

if you try now,
to reach an Real Output of 800 Lumens in Front of your Light it will cost you ~ 3 Amps or~10-11 Watts energy.

a single 18650 have ~10 Wh capacity.
the other sad think, 6 of this LEDs have in total a lower eff then a Single XM-L2 LED.

On your Website i read that You say your light with this LED types gives 800 Lumen for 2 Hours with a single 18650?????

can you explain how you get over 20 Wh from a 10 Wh cell?


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

stu06 said:


> Hi Matt,
> 
> How does the Hangover beam pattern compare with the Seca 2500?


The Seca 2500 will definitely outpunch this thing on lumens alone. However the beam pattern should be fairly similar. Seca is good in that it has a nicely diffused yet punchy pattern. I would wager that Hangover will be a little bit tighter since I have designed this with fixed helmet mounting in mind, so the beam pattern doesn't have to be as wide as something mounted for the handlebars.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

lostplaces said:


> I am using now ~7 Years Zerbas H600 on my Helmets.
> They are ~39 grams with 18650 cell what is 45 gram you have a total of 84 grams.
> 
> A empy cell is to change with a handle.
> ...


Hi!

Seems odd that this is your first post on this forum, plugging a bunch of products that no one really recommends around here because they aren't designed for biking, and trying to say my numbers are illegit, but I'll go through them anyways.

Weight: We are right at 100g with the 45g cell battery inside, along with a magnesium die cast housing so that it can actually dissipate the heat. So an actual housing/lens/electronics weight of 55g. The nearest competitor is the NR Lumina and the L&M Urban that are around 135g, so it's significant.

In our market research we found that most people don't want to be carrying extra 18650 cells, have a separate cell charger, and would rather have high speed USB-C charging. Also part of why that Zebra light is probably 16g lighter (nevermind the mass needed to have the built in gopro mount on hangover).

The zebra light looks like a nice running light or something, not sure how you would securely attach that to a bike helmet.

Also the beam pattern is not similar. The Zebra light and all those other lights you are mentioning are using bowl reflectors. By their very nature (and because they are off the shelf) they will form a harsh cutoff on the edge of the beam and be circular in nature. Only way to escape that is a lot of secondary light shaping via lenses and stuff.

We are indeed using the XQ-E Hi chips and they do perform to their datasheet. The engineer helping me on the electrical is a former CREE labs R&D manager. He knows his ****, is anal about making sure the specs are right and meeting his targets.

Perhaps you were testing knockoff chips, or testing with a bad heatsink and not doing the proper steps to really ensure that you can actually get full efficiency out of the lights. We aren't running this at the full 320 lumens because the efficiency would fall off way too quickly since the heatsink would overheat.

Needless to say, we have already tested with the chips running at the proper current/voltage to hit 800-900 lumens and it has lasted for the claimed 2 hour runtime with very little droop. This method of using lots of low power LED's to boost efficiency and improve the beam pattern is proving to be good.

We are invested in a high quality LG Chem battery that matches the power consumption of the light. Not cheap at all, in fact the second most expensive part in the light behind the PCBA but a high quality battery is absolutely essential in this type of product.

We are looking like we SHOULD start being able to assemble and ship product by the end of September. Things are well underway.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Outbound said:


> We are looking like we SHOULD start being able to assemble and ship product by the end of September. Things are well underway.


Very exciting! Some friends and I are looking forward to trying them out!


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

Outbound said:


> Hi!
> 
> Seems odd that this is your first post on this forum, plugging a bunch of products that no one really recommends around here because they aren't designed for biking,
> 
> The zebra light looks like a nice running light or something, not sure how you would securely attach that to a bike helmet.


Sorry but its not your decision for what a light ist design for.
This lights can be used for anything, Running, Skiing, Caving or like i used it and others use them for bikiing.

and fixing is much more easy then Gopro stuff, put it in the basic silikonholter and with a strab on the helmet.



Outbound said:


> The nearest competitor is the NR Lumina and the L&M Urban that are around 135g, so it's significant.


sound funny, take overpriced XM-L chrap light what fits you best and decide that is your competitor....
serious?

You want 100$ for your light , then Prefesionall 100$ helmet lights are the competitors.



Outbound said:


> In our market research we found that most people don't want to be carrying extra 18650 cells, have a separate cell charger, and would rather have high speed USB-C charging


you think really an Ready to use 18650 what weights 45 gram ist more a Problem then a Powerbank 150 grams cabels and other stuff?

and if the battery is empty in the woods and i stay in the dark i have to put out the powerbank and start charging.....wait Hours to get home?

a Lightweight Replacement Battery is a stock equip for Longtime Rides.



Outbound said:


> Also the beam pattern is not similar. The Zebra light and all those other lights you are mentioning are using bowl reflectors.


all those other Lights?
you dont know one of them right?

for example Olight H2R oder Armytek wizard Pro have TIR opticle Lensen with a smoother beam then your light.

We are talking about Professionell 100$ Helmet lights.



Outbound said:


> We are indeed using the XQ-E Hi chips and they do perform to their datasheet.


most times they far away from theoreticly stuff, real time conditions and somethink on the paper different worlds.
check out LED measurments in BLF an you see it.

But also ehat you say here can not be.
in the Datasheet is the highes Flux R3 reach on 350ma 122 Lumens.
That says 120 Lumens per Watt
if you Power 6 of them on this Current you need 2100ma=2,1 Amps to reach in theory 120x6= 720 and after Driver and Optics you have in the best situation ~600 Lumens.

in Real world Test i measurd much lower Outputthen on paper on ~300ma and mounted the LED on 500grams Pure Copper.

if you only take the Datasheet your are also far Away from that what you write.
IF you take only take Datasheeet for Promotion you Calculate also Wrong, if you take this you need a minimum of 2,5 Amps to reach ner 800 Lumens.



Outbound said:


> Needless to say, we have already tested with the chips running at the proper current/voltage to hit 800-900 lumens and it has lasted for the claimed 2 hour runtime with very little droop.


What is a very little drop?
5 seconds 800 Lumend then drop to 450 Lumens and run at this point 2 Hours?
Thats possible coz it hits the Specs from Datasheet.

So i still not know what ist the Current from the Battery to the Driver?
What binning you are Using?

What type of Light Sphere are u using?

Pkease post a Light Sphere measurment from the Complete runtime in this threat, thx.



Outbound said:


> , along with a magnesium die cast housing so that it can actually dissipate the heat.


That i am not understand to, why Magnesium?
coz it sound nice?

this material is in all aspekts of handling Heat a Wrong chose vs Aluminium.
For that reason you 50 gram magnesium housing handle Heat like a 30 gram Aluminium Housing.

Or if i Try with Magnesium to reach the abilitys from Alu i need much more Material!!

Magnesium ist a very bad material, thats why nobody use it, for Heatsink applications.

Your Light will have heavy Tempertaur Problems.

Do you think Professional Helmet Lights are just for fun, all of them Full Aluminium Body with copper Cores for The LED or DTP MCPCB boards?

I can say certainly only one think, 800 Lumens for 2 Hours with this LEDs is on the paper and i real world absolutly impossible.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Outbound said:


> Hi!
> 
> Seems odd that this is your first post on this forum, plugging a bunch of products that no one really recommends around here because they aren't designed for biking, and trying to say my numbers are illegit, but I'll go through them anyways.


Outbound, as i wrote in the Acebeam thread: arguments with this user are most probably useless, i think i know him from a different forum, his arguments are suspiciously similar to the ones in the other forum. He only reads what is useful to him, arguments which don't fit to his opinion are ignored and he thinks he knows everything, albeit not having the proper knowledge or understanding. (He has knowledge in some fields, but in less than he writes about)

_I think it's a hopeless case, so be warned..._



lostplaces said:


> take overpriced XM-L chrap light


That's one of his favorite (and telltale) arguments and therefore he goes on about any lamp with that LED die incorporated... (or more common: any lamp which does not use an XHP die)


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

biking_tg said:


> Outbound, as i wrote in the Acebeam thread: arguments with this user are most probably useless, i think i know him from a different forum, his arguments are suspiciously similar to the other forum.


The fact he's saying that magneisum is a bad material tells me about all I need to know. Looking at datasheets and not applying it to real world examples. Anyone who actually engineers heat sinks will know that it's not the thermal conductivity of the heat sink that matters, it's how fast you can remove the heat. Since we aren't cooling lights in water or in speeds in excess of 60mph, the main chokepoint is the convection of air wicking heat away from the surface.

Because it's all about surface area, we can maximize the surface area, but keep the weight low with magnesium since the lower thermal conductivity of aluminum isn't the thermal chokepoint in the lamp.

Everyone sticks with aluminum mostly because A: it's cheap, B: they look at the thermal conductivity number and think nothing else, and C: easier to do things like anodize, etch, and has better corrosion resistance. That is why our housings are powdercoated. Can't really anodize (which I'd prefer), plating is far too expensive, and paint looks like crap. So powdercoat it is.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Outbound said:


> The fact he's saying that magneisum is a bad material tells me about all I need to know. Looking at datasheets and not applying it to real world examples. Anyone who actually engineers heat sinks will know that it's not the thermal conductivity of the heat sink that matters, it's how fast you can remove the heat. Since we aren't cooling lights in water or in speeds in excess of 60mph, the main chokepoint is the convection of air wicking heat away from the surface.
> 
> Because it's all about surface area, we can maximize the surface area, but keep the weight low with magnesium since the lower thermal conductivity of aluminum isn't the thermal chokepoint in the lamp.
> 
> Everyone sticks with aluminum mostly because A: it's cheap, B: they look at the thermal conductivity number and think nothing else, and C: easier to do things like anodize, etch, and has better corrosion resistance. That is why our housings are powdercoated. Can't really anodize (which I'd prefer), plating is far too expensive, and paint looks like crap. So powdercoat it is.


I think anyone who has been following this thread or the OG Outbound thread knows you know your stuff. Don't feed the troll.

The fact that he compares that flashlight beam to yours as similar was enough to see he's FOS.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Outbound said:


> Everyone sticks with aluminum mostly because A: it's cheap, B: they look at the thermal conductivity number and think nothing else, and C: easier to do things like anodize, etch, and has better corrosion resistance.


Another advantage of aluminum is the fact hat you can cnc machine it from a block to almost any desirable form without requiring a specialized tool (besides the cnc machine) (actually it comes with your point "A: it's cheap"). For casting of magnesium you need a mold, which makes it probably more expensive in the beginning, but cheaper on the long run. The Lupine CEO wrote in their forum that a cnc machine runs nearly 60 mins for one lamp housing....


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

biking_tg said:


> Outbound, as i wrote in the Acebeam thread: arguments with this user are most probably useless, i think i know him from a different forum, his arguments are suspiciously similar to the other forum. He only reads what is useful to him, arguments which don't fit to his opinion are ignored, and he thinks he knows everything, albeit not having the knowledge or understanding in a certain area.
> 
> _I think it's a hopeless case, so be warned..._
> 
> That's one of his favorite (and telltale) arguments and therefore he goes on about any lamp with that LED die incorporated... (or more common: any lamp which does not use an XHP die)


Pretty obvious he has ideas of what suits him and what suits him is the only choice. I've played with XHP35, XHP50, and XHP70 emitters and one thing is for certain you are not going to get a decent beam for biking without, at the minimum, a 35mm diameter reflector. The die size is just too darn large to work with smaller reflectors or TIR optics.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

biking_tg said:


> Another advantage of aluminum is the fact hat you can cnc machine it from a block to almost any desirable form without requiring a specialized tool (besides the cnc machine) (actually it comes with your point "A: it's cheap"). For casting of magnesium you need a mold, which makes it probably more expensive in the beginning, but cheaper on the long run. The Lupine CEO wrote in their forum that a cnc machine runs nearly 60 mins for one lamp housing....


To be fair, can do that with a block of magnesium too. We CNC our prototypes out of magnesium blocks while developing new ones.

I remember reading the same thing about the CNC time. Which I found nuts. Either they have their own machines and the 60 minutes is for early prototypes, or they really do run that inefficiently, and part of why they have such high prices, ha.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Unless Lupine are using some really doodly CNCs, there is nothing about their housings that should require an hour of CNC runtime to machine. Looking at an Alpha I see 3 or 4 operations on a 3 axis CNC like mine and about 20 minutes total runtime in a production mode.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Vancbiker said:


> Unless Lupine are using some really doodly CNCs, there is nothing about their housings that should require an hour of CNC runtime to machine. Looking at an Alpha I see 3 or 4 operations on a 3 axis CNC like mine and about 20 minutes total runtime in a production mode.





Outbound said:


> To be fair, can do that with a block of magnesium too. We CNC our prototypes out of magnesium blocks while developing new ones.
> 
> I remember reading the same thing about the CNC time. Which I found nuts. Either they have their own machines and the 60 minutes is for early prototypes, or they really do run that inefficiently, and part of why they have such high prices, ha.


Out of interest, why do you cast the housings then? cheaper? faster? more sustainable as you use less raw material? allows finer details and structures?

Regarding CNC runtimes: here (https://forum.lupine.de/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=6702#p39224) the CEO says 68 mins for the new piko housing with a 5 axis cnc machine. I have no clue about machining alumina, so i can't add anything to this point.


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

Vancbiker said:


> P I've played with XHP35, XHP50, and XHP70 emitters and one thing is for certain you are not going to get a decent beam for biking without, at the minimum, a 35mm diameter reflector.


Most bike Lights come with XM-L2 LEDs an simple 20mm Lenses or Reflektors, This LED have a ~double Size from an XHP35 Hi, so i see you have Played alot.

And i have a Questions on Outbound not on You, its absolutly not interessting what LEDs who uses.

But i have a big Problem with wrong advertising, what i see here!

And excuses dont bring more infos.

If Outbound decide to make a Light with LED what deliver on the Datasheet and in Real world conditions under <100 Lumen per Watt so it is more then wrong to promise here ~180 Lumen per Watt.

And i mention only one of a LED types what abel to do this promise from Outbound.

Other LEDs can reach ~200 lumens per Watt easy to.

for example an Samsung LH351D performes on 0,25A with 220 Lumen per Watt or 0,5A with 200 Lumens per Watt.
And there are alot other LEDs at this Level, but thats not the point.

The Point is.
the XQ-E HI is a <100 Lumen per Watt type, and that caused naturally alot Questions!!

To give a Anwer on simple questions is a Live Task for you Outbound?

Again,

What Current is drawed into your Boost driver and after it into the LEDs on your ~850 LED or out of the Front Lumen what you promise?

What type of Light Sphere you have used for your measurment DIY or Industrial?

pls post a Graph with Current and Lightsphere Lumens from the complete Runtime to clear here alot of thinks.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

lostplaces said:


> Most bike Lights come with XM-L2 LEDs an simple 20mm Lenses or Reflektors, This LED have a ~double Size from an XHP35 Hi, so i see you have Played alot.....


If you had reasonable reading ability you would note that I did not include XHP35 Hi in the emitters I have tried on my test rig. Also my preference for XML is a 35mm reflector or optic as 20mm is also not good with that emitter.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

biking_tg said:


> Out of interest, why do you cast the housings then? cheaper? faster? more sustainable as you use less raw material? allows finer details and structures?


Muuuucccchhhh cheaper at scale. One expensive tool can make 10,000 units, vs machining. Plus can get better surfaces and such.

Any machined housing worth it's salt being used in a high scale enviroment will have rounded corners, straight lines, etc. to maximize the CNC runtime. All the machined housings for cheap lights are often from extruded aluminum stock, so only a few operations are needed for tapping, holes, etc.

While in order to have a more organic look, shaped fins, etc. have to go to die casting for it to be affordable. We can prototype for a few hundred bucks and a week of time, while a die casting tool takes 5 weeks to make, but can then churn out housings at a buck or two each. The real cost of the lights comes from the battery and electronics.

Regarding the integrating sphere, we have access to pro level stuff (3m wide spheres at CREE and a few other companies we are connected with) but haven't bothered yet because as many of you know, I don't care about lumen levels.

I care more about beam pattern and perceived brightness. I don't know why flashlight guys care SO much about the tiny little lumen differences. Our eyes literally cannot tell a 10-15% difference in brightness, and the testing procedures are so easily gamed that lumen levels in a sphere unless testing multiple lights at the same time under the same conditions under the same sphere don't matter.

The automotive industry rate their lights based on lux at distances, design lamps with candela targets set out both internally and due to external regulations. We set out with design targets to hit for the actual lighting profile, and trying to hit it with the minimum lumens possible. If I could hit the targets with 500 lumens I would be and would be proud to show it.

As I mentioned before we could very easily make this current light hit 2000 lumens by overdriving the XQ-E chips for a few minutes, then rapidly fall off to 1000 lumens and drop to 500 to claim 2 hours. Basically what a lot of current lights do. Except I don't care to try and do that. We are developing this light to produce a solid amount of light designed to mount to the helmet for MTB riding, with a solid runtime that doesn't diminish much over time, while making it light as possible.

Also don't forget the USB-C charging, can fully charge from zero to 100% in an hour. Or have an external battery pack hooked up via the USB-C and keep feeding it while you are riding, so no need to swap out batteries. Hell top it off when you take a 15 minute break and you'll get an extra 30 minutes of runtime.


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

Outbound said:


> As I mentioned before we could very easily make this current light hit 2000 lumens by overdriving the XQ-E chips for a few minutes......


To get 2000 Out of the Fronrt Lumens, need to pump in over 14 Amps/45 Watt into 6 XQ-E to reach near this Value but the bigger problem ist they Burn down in under <3 Secounds.

better Heat dissipation from a copper/aluminium konstruction, a ~50 gram aluminium Body will be heated up with 40 Watts in ~25 secound to over 80°C= LEDs burn down.

over 40 Watt Heat from LEDs in a 50 gram Magnesium case for minutes?

Sorry for the Question but you have any idea about LEDs?
And any idea of the LEDs what are in your Projekt?

Your professional knowledge about LEDs are really more the low what i read here, only this post shows is more then clear.

If you are only the Advertising department for someone ask the technician befor you write that typ of stuff pls.

Again the most imported Question for your Technician!!!

You Put into your Light LEDs types what can deliver in best Datasheet situations ~100 Lumens per Watt!
what says simply over 8,5 Watt, 9-10 Watts are realistic Power after Driver and Optics to reach 850 lumens out of the Front.

That says your Light need 10 Watts per Hour or 1 18650 cell will be burned down in 1 Hour!

And Promise here potantial byers the Double Runtime from Datasheet specs is simply a visible Lie.

To reach 2 Hours on Runtime with 850 Lumens from 1x 18650 cell need LEDs what are able to deliver 180 lumen per watt on this Output!!!

Can you answer this question!

Then i see a big safty Problem here 1 Hour Charge time with a single Li-ion cell?

Some Li-ion basic for your technician:

*it is not allowed to charge Li-ion cells faster then 1C*,* coz risk of thermal runaway.*
Li-ion batterys must charged with the CC-CV method.
that means 90% with a Constant current and the last 10% in CV mode to 4,2 Volt.

so the fastest possible an nearly save charge speed or time is *1 Hour and 30 minutes *for every li-ion cell, to not risk burn down my house.

it will help to explain in all details your C Rating of your charge and at what Voltage point your CV phase switch on, what is the end Voltage of CV?

The Standard charge rate is *0,5 C *what all Cell Producers Samsung/LG/Sony request to use for safty and Lifetime reasons.

A Li-ion Cell will be charge in 2,5 Hours with 0,5C and a correct CC-CV method, 0,5C is 100% save and last long Lifetime of a cell, no risk of Thermal runaway.

And thats de simply reason why Serious Producers with build in Li-ion Cells and uSB plugs for charge have all ~3 hours charge time.
~0,5C its a savety reason for users.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Outbound said:


> Muuuucccchhhh cheaper at scale. One expensive tool can make 10,000 units, vs machining. Plus can get better surfaces and such.
> ...
> While in order to have a more organic look, shaped fins, etc. have to go to die casting for it to be affordable.
> ...
> ...


Thanks for that explanation with the advantages of casting.

Regarding Lumens: i understand your argumentation why they are not important, i am just curious what amount of light is lost in the reflector and the silicon lense in the focal series vs the output of the LEDs naked on the PCBA. Since the color changes, this must be connected with a slight loss in output. (Still, the lights have enough output  ) My scientific education kicks in here..

However, if you loose too much light in the reflector and the lens/front cover, how could you guarantuee you still reach your set lux targets/light distribution with certain lux targets? Do they measure the lux values of the lamp at the targeted positions in automotive industry?


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

This is the last post from me to feed the troll, i promise...



lostplaces said:


> [1]You Put into your Light LEDs types what can deliver in best Datasheet situations ~100 Lumens per Watt!
> 
> [2] a ~50 gram aluminium Body will be heated up with 40 Watts in ~25 secound to over 80°C= LEDs burn down.
> over 40 Watt Heat from LEDs in a 50 gram Magnesium case for minutes?


regarding [1]:
Oh Jesus, it were so helpful could you read data sheets. :madman::madmax: It were even more helpful would you understand them and could you combine the information given there.
On the cree webpage the XQ-E Hi is rated with "Maximum Efficacy at Binning Conditions: 128 lm/W" Binning conditions according to data sheet are 85 °C (junction temperature) and 350 mA current. 
Now if you consider that the output increases with lower junction temperature (page 12 of the XQ-E data sheet), you can get at 50-60 °C a 10-12% increase in efficiency. The LED temperature during operation is shown here:

__
http://instagr.am/p/ByqCplynlmf/
. Since the luminous flux is given as minium, and the best binnining gives 122-130 lm/W, one obtains 134-143 lm/W at lower temperatures and currents around 330-350 mA. This sums up for 6 LEDs to in 800-860 lm, when they a re properly cooled (where we come to [2]).

regarding [2]
You lack the basic understanding of heat transport, so please stop arguing in this field. You just did a calculation using only the heat capacity and ignoring any effect of heat transport by air flow/forced convection. The idea of a lamp housing is not to heat up (that's the idea behind a water boiler or behind a melting furnace) but to dissipate the heat into the environment.
We are talking about bike lamps - not multi purpose flashlights - which are intended and designed to use while riding. While riding there is an air flow around the lamp, which of course is not present without movement. This air flow takes up heat from the lamp body. Since the body has fins and a reasonable surface area, it can dissipate the heat.

It would help if you read Outbounds Post where he explains why heat capacity and slightly lower thermal conductivity are not the limiting factors. It would further help to think about this and to try to understand it before posting a derisive reply lacking the understanding. Understanding can be a slow process and might take some time, even weeks, if you do not have the basic knowledge so far.

And: 
Stop explaining things to (professional) people, when they haven't asked, they most probably know it a lot better than you. You just present yourself as an idiot. You don't sell/produce lights for sale, Outbound does, and contrary to you he is smart enough to get help from experts in relevant fields which are out of his expertise.
i.e.: your 1C rate rule for charging Li-ion is bogus, otherwise all fast charge options in cars would overly endanger the battery life, which no car maker would even risk (i.e. 155 kW fast charging with a 95kWh battery, filling it up to 80% in 30 mins -->more than 1.5C)


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

...


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

biking_tg said:


> regarding [1]:
> Oh Jesus, it were so helpful could you read data sheets.


This LED draws only if i take the datasheet:
1 Amp for ~270 LED Lumen."<90 Lumen per Watt"
in real world conditions its much lower.

The main Problem with this LED was.
we try test 3 Year ago it for a graph in BLF for a there done LED performance review, the lack of DTP"direct thermal Path" Board and that this LEDs burn down at near This Point it was not Postet.

If i Pump now into 6 of this LEDs 6 Amps i get theoreticly 1620 LED Lumen, and that is only Paper stuff.

Now if i try to geht 2000 Real lumen from a light, like the guy from the marketing says, so i need ~2400 LED lumens"driver and optics eat alot"

That says calculated 400 Lumens from ever of the LEDs.
about the heavy thermal Problems of this LED it will need ~2 Amps pump into each and about the totaly overheading the eff drops down to ~50 Lumen per Watt.

But coz i dont find a DTP board thats impossible.

now next calculation 6x2 Amps per LED= 12 Amps in total to Reach 2000 Real lumen out of the Front.
to take realitic 90% eff from a driver you end wit ~14 Amps drawn from a 18650 battery.

That for any Heatsink says 40 Watt pure Heat power.

Same like to create a boost driver who can handle 14 Amps is a life task.

fell free to measure yourself that out , XQ-E HI i buy 3 years ago on arrow.com for 1,5$ per LED.
That we can check your measurment.

I burn down all what i have orderd 3 Years ago, so never post a full LED review with a realworld performancce table.

I remeber only that it was horrible, and much lower than on the Paper.

Thats why i wondering someone use it in a product, and thats wha i asking here how Outbound can promise here 180 Lumen per Watt on a Outputlevel from 850 lumens.

So if they promise this there must be done a Runtimegrapgh, and that thing i will see coz its 100% away from that what XQ-E HI can do.

If i promise you 100% more from something that it is able to do you will not ask about that?

Can i ask you about your expirience of measuring LEDs?
how many of them you have measured?


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

lostplaces said:


> This LED draws only if i take the datasheet:
> 1 Amp for ~270 LED Lumen."<90 Lumen per Watt"
> in real world conditions its much lower.
> 
> ...


Can i ask about your ability to read, understand arguments and to combine given information and transfer knowledge?

I never talked about real measurement values. There probably will be a difference between datasheet values and measured values. Outbound is talking about chip lumens (i.e. data sheet lumens). It is fair to critize this, however since Outbound gave solid reasons why lumen numbers are not important to him, just accept it.
You claimed initially the LEDs have around 100 lm/W datasheet efficiency at best conditions. I only corrected that point and gave a reasoning and a source for my arguments.
You just ignore all information available fo far in this thread and pick conditions which do not apply to hangover. The LED's in Hangover are not operated at 1 A, that is not possible at 2 hr runtime from a 12 Wh battery with nearly constant output. The lamp must consume around 6 W in total. With the given efficiency of the driver (96%), one ends up with 0.96 W/LED. This is very close to binning conditions with respect to drawn current, but the die stays most probably a lot cooler while riding. And here we come again to the calculation i did in my previous post... (the data of the lamp can be found on the product homepage)

We honestly can't help you if you can't combine the information from the XQ-E HI datasheet and don't listen to us if we do this for you. Relevant graphs for my conclusions and calculations are on page 12, 15 and 17 in the datasheet.

And further: 
You cannot compare a LED board/driver PCB board - available to an end user/customer - to a specifically custom designed PCB/LED Board :nono:. Since the lamp is produced in the first run for at least 3000 units, a properly designed custom LED board becomes affordable, which can then be designed for proper heat transfer...


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

biking_tg said:


> that is not possible at 2 hr runtime from a 12 Wh battery with nearly constant output. The lamp consumes close to 6 W in total. ...


Yes the Lamp have to Comsume ~5 Watt or easyer to understand for you for a easy Calculation example 1,5A per Hour to drain a 3000mah"3Ah battery empty"

and no a very easy math calculation for you.
6 LED ea take same current from the 1,5A input=250ma current ea LED.

at 250ma or if you like it more 0,25A current can this Type of LEDs ~80 Lumens

if you take this 6x80=~480 only LED output not from the Light itself.

now to understand?
we are 100% away from the 850 Lumens for 2 Hours.

on a boost driver:
3,2V*6=19,2Volt

19,2 Volt LEDs/3,7Volt batterie=multiplier 5

1,5A drawed by batterie /5=300ma into LEDs

so a boost driver what will power 6x XQ-E HI in series for exactly 2 Hours gives:
19,2Volt on a fixed current of 300ma= ~500 Lumens Output.

to drive 6 XQ-E HI in series or parallel make no differenz.
it will always end in ~500 LED lumen.

thats not what the light will put out, i ignore Optic losses and Driver losses!

Thats why i asked Outbound to show here the Runtime graph what have be done.

If will check different lights for yourself.
the easyest way to make a fast check of lights.
to compare current from a Battery to the Driver , an the Lumen want you get with it.

for single Cells:
3A current=1 Hour Runtime.
1,5A current= 2 Hours Runtime
1A current=3 Hours of runtime.
from a ~3000mah cell.

and the compare that to the Real output if both mach, Lumen and the Possible runtime on the current. 
for example my Helmet light:

if i measure the current from the battery its, 1,1 Amps.
If i measure at this value the output in a Lightsphere i get 600 Lumens.
so 2,8 Hours runtime on 600 Lumen matches.

The used LED have at this current an eff of 200 lumen per Watt.
so anythink in range.

The next higher option is Temp regulater but for a fast check no Problem.
Current 1,4-1,5A goes in.
Lightsphere says 800 Lumens out.

And the eff of the LED have in the list *186 Lumen per Watt*.
so again anythink in range.

this typ of fast check need 3 minutes of your time on any light.

and ~*180 Lumen per Watt *needet to bring exactly 800 Lumens for 2 Hours with a Single ~3000mah Battery!


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

lostplaces said:


> Yes the Lamp have to Comsume ~5 Watt


No, the battery capacity is 3.3 Ah (or 12.2 Wh at 3.7 V nominal voltage), therefore the lamp consumes 12.2 Wh/2 h = 6W or 1W per LED, which equals to a current/voltage of 343 mA * 2.9V forward voltage for the LED (p15 datasheet)



lostplaces said:


> to compare current from a Battery to the Driver


You can't do this. Since a battery is not a constant voltage source (during operation voltage varies depending on state of charge and on drawn current), the drawn current at constant power requirement must vary (Power = Voltage x Current). Furthermore the voltage at the LED (after the driver) is not the same as the voltage on the battery side (before the driver). Therefore you _cannot_ assume the battery current is the same as the LED current. You have to calculate with power draw..
The LED driver is a constant current power source, which is fed with a varying voltage - depending on the state of charge of the battery and the required power draw. It transforms the supplied powerd to a constant current. As the forward voltage of the LED depends on the applied current, one can only calculate with power draw (in W) from the battery if we are talking about efficiency and if we want to relate the power draw to a lumious flux.



lostplaces said:


> at 250 mA current this type of LEDs ~80 Lumens... 6x80=~480


I am sorry, but even this value is wrong, when we look at data sheet values and it does therefore not apply to hangover:
Acording to data sheet (p17) the efficiency increases with decreasing current:
1) Looking on p17 of the data sheet, one reads out 75% relative luminous flux at 250 mA from the graph.
2) 350 mA (which equals to 1W, as calculated above) are set to 100 %, as it represents binning conditions. During operation at cooler temperatures these 100 % equal to 134-143 lm per 1W power consumption per LED, as calculated in my earlier post.
3) So 75% of this output gives you 100-107 lm per LED. (Remember: binning conditions of 350 mA require 2.85-2.9 V, which multiplies to 1W.) This sums up to 600-642 lm. However the LEDs only require 2.8-2.85 V at 250 mA, which gives a power consumption of only 0.7-0.71 W/LED or in sum 4.2-4.3 W for 6 LEDs. (Forward voltage vs current is shown on p15 in the data sheet)

Conclusion: obviously your calculation does not fit to hangover and your statement 


lostplaces said:


> we are 100% away from the 850 Lumens for 2 Hours.


is wrong.

Of course all these calculations from data sheet values assume that we have no loss of light in the lens and the LEDs behave as the data sheet tells us and the temperature of the LED is below 85°C. But we are still and only talking about calculated values, not measured.

Since i haven't won the lottery and proper integrating spheres and calibration sources are expensive, i won't buy a sphere and therefore i can't do a measurement that i would trust...


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

biking_tg said:


> No, the battery capacity is 3.3 Ah (or 12.2 Wh at 3.7 V nominal voltage)


No 18650 Battery have in real use 12 Wh, Samsung,LG,Sony,Panasonic, all the same 10Wh.

and sorry i find only a 3200mah one
but 3500mah 18650 can checked to.
LG INR18650MH1 Akkutest in der Dampfakkus.de AkkuDB
Samsung SDI INR18650-35E Akkutest in der Dampfakkus.de AkkuDB



> 3.0 V 3014mAh 10.685Wh
> 3.1 V 2951mAh 10.496Wh
> 3.2 V 2830mAh 10.118Wh


The usable Capacity dependet on Cut-off, Current, thermal conditions.......

In Real world use All of this Cells have ~10Wh.

In winter conditions a High Drain 3000mA Cell outperformce a 3500mA high capacity cell by 20-30%, for example.

Thats why i use in Summer other cells then in Winter.

But its no battery discussion.

I hope we get a Runtimegraph soon from Outbound.:thumbsup:


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## stu06 (Dec 8, 2012)

Outbound said:


> The Seca 2500 will definitely outpunch this thing on lumens alone. However the beam pattern should be fairly similar. Seca is good in that it has a nicely diffused yet punchy pattern. I would wager that Hangover will be a little bit tighter since I have designed this with fixed helmet mounting in mind, so the beam pattern doesn't have to be as wide as something mounted for the handlebars.


Hi Matt,

Thanks for your reply. I'm going to mount two of the Hangovers on the bar and rotate each to either side to create a wider beam pattern. (That's what I'm doing currently with two Secas with great success; I like the idea, however, of having a warmer light tint and not dealing with separate batteries.)


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## hibo3 (Aug 30, 2019)

Became a recent customer of a Hangover light and thought I'd see what other posts were around. I initially liked the idea of charging while in use but the location of the charge port is not great and then noticed an animation of the green LEDs when charging. If that was showing while riding, I would find it particularly distracting. Maybe Outbound could confirm whether this behaviour occurs when both light is on and simultaneously charging.

Since there now is a possibility of a rear light, a dedicated thread giving people the opportunity to offer their opinions for a 'best rear light' may be worthwhile.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

hibo3 said:


> If that was showing while riding, I would find it particularly distracting. Maybe Outbound could confirm whether this behaviour occurs when both light is on and simultaneously charging.


And I would find this feature useful. I guess that's the problem with asking the market for opinions :lol:


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## hibo3 (Aug 30, 2019)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> And I would find this feature useful. I guess that's the problem with asking the market for opinions :lol:


I would agree if the LEDs indicated state of charge as in one,two or three on but not if they continually ramp up and down.


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## phalkon30 (Jan 17, 2009)

hibo3 said:


> I would agree if the LEDs indicated state of charge as in one,two or three on but not if they continually ramp up and down.


That's a pretty universal mode on most electronics, it's nice to know it's in a charging state to know its actually taking a charge


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## hibo3 (Aug 30, 2019)

phalkon30 said:


> That's a pretty universal mode on most electronics, it's nice to know it's in a charging state to know its actually taking a charge


Yes, charging the Shimano bike battery, I noticed the blinking but then I take it off the bike to charge and when on the bike, the lights are concealed by the top tube so never a distraction.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

hibo3 said:


> I would agree if the LEDs indicated state of charge as in one,two or three on but not if they continually ramp up and down.


Agree, I hope that if it's is being used while plugged in it doesn't flash. That would be annoying.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> And I would find this feature useful. I guess that's the problem with asking the market for opinions :lol:


Yes, I would rather have the indication than not have it. And for those that are opposed to it, it is about the simplest problem there is to solve.


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## hibo3 (Aug 30, 2019)

Velodonata said:


> Yes, I would rather have the indication than not have it. And for those that are opposed to it, it is about the simplest problem there is to solve.


Cover with a piece of opaque sticky tape? Looking good.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> Yes, I would rather have the indication than not have it. And for those that are opposed to it, it is about the simplest problem there is to solve.


Solution: Electrical tape over ramping leds. I too might find it distracting if on the bars. Can't say for sure because I don't own one. No worries on the helmet.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Add 3 more to the Hangover 'pre-order' list. I just bought one and talked a couple of riding buddies into it as well. We are all long time Niterider users and have gotten by fine with them but this light looks to be an upgrade.

Any updates from Outbound regarding ship date for Hangover?


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

I am excited to see the final outcome of this light. I too have been a NiteRider user but also have owned and used Lupine, Light and Motion and Exposure lights but settled on self contained Light and Motion Taz 1200. I am eager to compare the Hangover to the Taz.


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## hibo3 (Aug 30, 2019)

sturge said:


> Add 3 more to the Hangover 'pre-order' list. I just bought one and talked a couple of riding buddies into it as well. We are all long time Niterider users and have gotten by fine with them but this light looks to be an upgrade.
> 
> Any updates from Outbound regarding ship date for Hangover?


Got an email from Outbound on the 9th updating progress. They have needed to tweak some aspects of the Hangover they weren't happy with, delaying production to mid/late October.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

hibo3 said:


> Got an email from Outbound on the 9th updating progress. They have needed to tweak some aspects of the Hangover they weren't happy with, delaying production to mid/late October.


Thanks!


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Yep, got it right. Pushed things back a bit to get things just right. Thankfully nowhere close the delays we had with the original light (4 months past the planned date, was a little too optimistic there!).

This is a copy of what I sent everyone:



> Soooo, here we are! The days are getting shorter and I am sure you are wondering where the heckin' heck the Hangover light is that you bought.
> 
> First off, wow, what an incredible response we've had from amazing customers like you. I was going to be thrilled if we got something like 150-180 pre-orders. As of today.... we have over 700! ?
> 
> ...


Just a little update, now that pre-order number is now 860 lights on preorder (as of 10:30pm 9-23-19). :eekster:

Also some of the updates:

- Packaging approved and on it's way. Nice simple slim box along with a recyclable paper pulp insert. 








- Batteries are in the air and should arrive at the end of this week.
- First batch of boards went through production to be tested, programming setup dialed in, and any kinks worked out before we go full speed on the full production.
- Updated optics should arrive in a day or two for us to test and approve. The supplier has already promised that they will work as fast as they can in production since the tool update has taken far longer than they anticipated.
- Looking to hire some part-time help now in the Chicago area with assembly and logistics stuff.

Also now looking at searching for an actual commercial space in the Chicago area to setup permanent shop so that I can begin hiring some help. Outbound has been growing quite fast and what used to be a thing that'd take me maybe half a day to build all the lights for the week, is now taking up a majority of my time. The next step for this business is to try and hire some help to assist me in the day-to-day stuff so that I can continue to focus on product development, fine tuning, and the marketing/business side of things.

It's been incredibly exciting since we launched Hangover as it has really helped give OL the leg up we needed.

Next update should be a final shipping date in a few weeks.


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## richard1hammond (Sep 18, 2019)

Excellent! I just got mine on pre order along with the trail kit, very excited! I must say my main reason for ordering is your diligence and passion to engineer the perfect lights so I’m happy with delays until you’re finished and signed off on your products! 

It’s really cool to see you’re company grow and I hope to see you rise through the ranks as the authority in premium lights! 

All the best! 

Richard 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

2 preordered. One for me, on for my son.


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## Narrowback (Mar 26, 2017)

Add me to the list of pre-orders. Thanks!


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Officially closing out the pre-order this weekend guys. Last chance!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

@Outbound...Anyway you can take the lamp out of the box and place it next to a couple common items so we can judge the size ( perhaps some loose 18650 cells, TV remote or perhaps mount on a helmet )

It looks long/big but that might just be the lack of perspective in the photo.


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

Cat-man-do said:


> @Outbound...Anyway you can take the lamp out of the box and place it next to a couple common items so we can judge the size


Why not compare to a Pro Helmet light like Olight H2R with TIR optic to an more power, more runtime.


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## jeremy_burke (Jan 28, 2018)

Cat-man-do said:


> @Outbound...Anyway you can take the lamp out of the box and place it next to a couple common items so we can judge the size ( perhaps some loose 18650 cells, TV remote or perhaps mount on a helmet )
> 
> It looks long/big but that might just be the lack of perspective in the photo.


Guys I hate being this guy but literally the first image in this thread is the light mounted on a helmet. Just scroll up and don't ask the OP to do the work for you. Let him spend his time building us our lights.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

jeremy_burke said:


> Guys I hate being this guy but literally the first image in this thread is the light mounted on a helmet. Just scroll up and don't ask the OP to do the work for you. Let him spend his time building us our lights.


Dimensions are also on the website

Dimensions 82 x 32 x 48mm (3.2 x 1.25 x 1.9 inches)


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## ryderjo (Oct 7, 2017)

Hey - would love to buy this if I knew what the brightness (lumens?) was at the lowest setting. I like to use my bike light for hanging around camp, cooking in the dark, etc on multi-day rides, and it's really nice to have a fairly dim setting for this.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

ryderjo said:


> Hey - would love to buy this if I knew what the brightness (lumens?) was at the lowest setting. I like to use my bike light for hanging around camp, cooking in the dark, etc on multi-day rides, and it's really nice to have a fairly dim setting for this.


calculating with the max. runtime (16h) and battery data (12 Wh) from the website, one gets 0.75 W Power consumption on lowest setting. Since the LEDs are run then at max. efficiency and are kept very cool, the chip lumens (without losses due to optics) will (according to the calculation in post 95) be around 100-115 lms


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## BigBo (Oct 4, 2010)

Since the pre order is over and you still are not shipping for 3 weeks I guess I'll just order later. I don't see an incentive to placing an order now.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Alright, update time. Once again going to be pushing the ship date back a bit. Found a few more issues in the casting that needs to be rectified before we can commit to having 2000+ of these made. One of the issues is our fault for not catching it, the other is the suppliers. Frustrating, but we are committed to delivering a seriously quality product. Hoping late October or first week of Nov.

The optics are dialed in, and Tom has been using it nearly every night the last week or two doing charge/discharge tests and programming tweaks.

Except for the die castings, almost all the items have arrived. Batteries show up monday, the packaging monday as well, USB cables are already here, GoPro mounts are going to arrive with the castings already pre-assembled to save more time on our end.

Here's a few shots of the Hangover vs some common lights. First one is the Niterider Lumina 1200 Boost on top, and Hangover on bottom:









And then this one is the Sigma Buster thingy vs the Hangover:









I did buy that O-Light H2R, and not even worth sending to Tom to compare because it's so crappy. The lighthead got so hot on the 45 second "2300 lumen" mode that it literally left a burn mark on my wooden office desk surface. I'm sure it's a great light to use around the house or on a slow stroll around the neighborhood.... but not as a bike light.

Other exciting news, is that next week moving into our own 1200 sqft commercial space in Lincolnwood, IL so that can expand the amount of inventory on hand, hire an employee or two to help with the day-to-day work, annnnd make my wife happy because she was NOT liking the fact that I had boxes and boxes and boxes of parts, packaging, prototypes, 3d printing stuff, etc. in our spare bedroom, hallways, kitchen and more. We've been running Outbound out of our home for the last 2 years, and now grown big enough that absolutely need to get into a larger space to help keep the company growing.

This also means that if you are in the area, would be happy to have you stop by! We are right off the North Shore River Trail near the Lincolnwood Town Center. Will post some pics once we are moved in!


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

Outbound said:


> I did buy that O-Light H2R, and not even worth sending to Tom to compare because it's so crappy.


Your beamshots only show that your light can not challange the 20$ range from professional helmet lights.

if i compare the beamshots from your light and the SP40.......
Review: Sofirn SP40 | BudgetLightForum.com

and the SP40 is near 3 times smaller then your light and i can easy change in 5 secounds a empty to a full battery.:thumbsup:

Your screenshot from your light looks very similar to the beam from the thrunite TH10 v2.
pure spot near no flood.

You still not show a runtimegraph from your light?
some weeks passed thats not enouth to make a 30$ DIY lightsphere an show here the real Output and runtime from your light?

you promised here 100% more then i measured with the LED type so i asked you to show a runtimegraph, and still nothing.

i think Light output vs runrime your light will be a good challanger ~80 lumen / Watt for the SP40.

and i still wait on a explain how you will charge a basic 18650 Li-ion with over 1C charge current that not end in heavy lithium plating that end in very fast destroyed battery, and heavy rist of burn down my house?

if i not burned down my house with ~50x 0-100% 1,3C charge cycles enought to send a 18650 battery to heaven.:thumbsup:

next what i wonder.
how much CRI have your light, its a cool white 7000K 50 CRI ?

i dont understand how you will challange pro helmet light companys.

i i what great Flood i take the Olight H2R
if i what heavy throw i take a Thrunite H10 v2
if i what a grat allround beam i take the SP40 or my Zebralight H600 series

in all peo helmet lights switch fast empty to full batterys is a basic.
and they are all 2 times smaller then your light......

you call your light the smallest on the market? not really
you promise 900 lumen for 2 Hours but will not prove it?
and your charging style still not explained.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

lostplaces said:


> Your beamshots only show that your light can not challange the 20$ range from professional helmet lights.
> 
> if i compare the beamshots from your light and the SP40.......
> Review: Sofirn SP40 | BudgetLightForum.com
> ...


Go ahead and buy one of our lights when it comes out and take it apart to do all the testing you want. You don't even believe the incredibly detailed datasheets from CREE, why are you going to believe anything we put out?

It's very. VERY clear that you have zero interest in actually purchasing a light beyond trying to slam it as "overpriced" and that it can't compare to a cheap light. Awesome. Glad that the bar is set that low for you.

I set out to start this company because I felt that the cheap stuff was underwhelming, and the name brand stuff was overpriced for what amounted to chips in reflector bowls. I take a lot of pride in the actual beam pattern design, and spend a fortune in the software and training to develop just that instead of pulling off-the-shelf optics like every cheap amazon light does.

I was going to ramble on a bit more about how we literally put quality over anything else, but it's obvious that will never sway you. Feel free to trash us on the other forums because I won't give you full schematics of our boards or detailed charts or even waste time trying to argue LED characteristics when I literally have the former R&D manager for CREE labs helping me develop these things.

His obsession over detail and quality is why I love working with him, we both share the same vision, build a company founded on quality products, and let that speak for itself. If I really was in this for the money I wouldn't be on this forum providing details and answering stuff, I'd be trying to resell cheap stuff from Alibaba on Amazon backed with a flashy website and social media ads.

Anyways... Hangover is shaping up to be a great light. If you want to use a cheap light, awesome. There are a few threads specifically for that.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Beam shot look great!. Outbound lights usually have a bit wider spread than I prefer so more focused beam is a welcome surprise since that's my preference for a helmet light. :thumbsup: Sigma Buster 700 is currently my favorite self-contained helmet light so appreciate that it was used compared to the new Hangover. Would have preferred the mode/battery life button didn't show green on the Buster (31-70% charge) but from my output testing that still falls in the 700-900 lumen range so not too much harm in this if any (Desert surroundings indicate you probably didn't shoot these Matt so "bad Tom"). I have one of those Sofirn SP40 P-style flashlights and will be comparing it to the Hangover when I get my preorder.
Mole


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

Outbound said:


> Go ahead and buy one of our lights when it comes out and take it apart to do all the testing you want. You don't even believe the incredibly detailed datasheets from CREE......


Is it possible to get any technically competent answer from you?

all what i read to this point ist marketingtalk without any serious info.
first you show screens from a flooder now you show your real screens and the beam from a Thrunite TH10 v2 is to see.

not very suprisind for a 2 times bigger light.

*but now the important things!!*
i asked you show here a runtimegraph of that what you promise from your light !!!

i know 100% what is possible thats why i ask you to show how you came on the fantasy numbers.

and the other very important question?
to destroy 18650 battery with *heavy overcurrent* charging ist no big deal!!!!!

i have destroy last week 3 LG batterys only for you.

The only possible way to get charged a 18650 battery from 0 to 100% capacity in ~60 minutes ist to *heavy overcurrent* it far above the safe level!!!!

CC/CV 90/10 with 1,2C , cut-off 2,8V to 4,2 Volt as chargeprofile for example 3 batterys and what happend aftter i let this charge/ dischargeprofile cycle.

1. LG INR18650MH1 
after 52 of this cycles done the battery have lose 40% of here capacity and i dont want do more, coz fire risk.
battery after ~50 is for Garbage can!!!!

2. LG INR18650-MJ1
at the chargecycle 34 the Battery internal short, it start to vent, no fire.
lucky to not end in full thermal runaway with fire....

3. LG INR18650-F1L
after 43 cycles the capacity of the battery have loose >40% and i desicde for safty reason to make more cycles, fire risk.
this batttery ist at ~40 charge cycles for Garbage can.

i destroy 15$ in batterys for you.:thumbsup:

*no explain here how you will charge a LG 18650 basic battery on a save way in 1 Hour that will not end after some charge cycles in a lithium thermal runaway situation?*

i have done dthis 18650 battery destruction in a fire and explosion prof container with a Junsi charger.

so i have to place now your light every time i want to charge it in this container to be save not burn down my home?

Save 18650 Li-ion battery charging ist <0,5C with CC/CV 80/20!!!!!!


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

So..... now you are going to claim I'm using an entirely different light in our comparison photos? You can CLEARLY see the niterider blue button, and overall square shape. I don't even know what this "Thrunite v102.4494 whatever" is. I don't shop Banggood all day or buy those dirt cheap lights because I know exactly what's in them and based on the reflector or TIR I can tell how they'll perform.

I'm not worried about whatever you are rambling on about because I have incredibly talented electrical engineers with lots of experience in quick charge protocols and how to do the proper charging profiles to safely and reliably quickly charge these batteries. 

I'm not an electrical engineer by trade, I'm a mechanical and optical engineer. That's why I hire out the work to competent and trustworthy engineers who test this stuff. 

But again, why would you believe me. You don't seem to otherwise. Buy one of the lights, take it apart, criticize every component, tell me it's ****, and that I should close my business and go back to buying junk from China and rebrand it since apparently that's the best way to go. Either that or I should sell these things with zero margin for local shops, distributors, or reinvestment in new products which is what these suppliers do on places like Aliexpress and Banggood. They take advantage of the shipping subsidies that exist for China only, combined with subsidies they get from the government to offer those lights at ridiculously cheap prices in order to flood the market.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

It's time to step in here and try and calm this thread down.

@Lostplaces : Your contributions to other lighting threads (from what I have read) are quite constructive but in this thread it's derailing a startup who is trying to put a product to market. 

If @Outbound has his engineering as wrong as you claim he'll crash and burn (pun intended) in no time.

Respectfully @Lostplaces it's unreasonable to ask for full technical specs and drawings of a proprietary product and to dissect everything @Outbound posts in minutiae. Asking for a runtime graph, I consider reasonable and if @Outbound has that I'm sure they'll post it.

Understanding and cooperation with my request from all parties is appreciated.


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## 6feet10 (Aug 10, 2017)

@Outbound don't feed the troll. Better spend your time on producing the new light. I have ordered one.
I would be interested how the gopro helmet mount looks like. Can you show us a picture? And I would like to mount it below my bars with a gopro spacer mount like this one:
https://www.lupine-shop.com/en/acce...ike-light-accessories/1739/gopro-mount-spacer


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

6feet10 said:


> @Outbound don't feed the troll. Better spend your time on producing the new light. I have ordered one.
> I would be interested how the gopro helmet mount looks like. Can you show us a picture? And I would like to mount it below my bars with a gopro spacer mount like this one:
> https://www.lupine-shop.com/en/acce...ike-light-accessories/1739/gopro-mount-spacer


The tabs for it are literally built into the housing itself. The Gopro helmet mount that will come with it is the typical standard mount that GoPro provides. Otherwise the housing will mount onto any mount that uses the standard action camera tabs.

Here is a picture of an early production sample prototype on Tom's bike. No silkscreen logos or anything on there yet.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Outbound said:


> The tabs for it are literally built into the housing itself. The Gopro helmet mount that will come with it is the typical standard mount that GoPro provides. Otherwise the housing will mount onto any mount that uses the standard action camera tabs.
> 
> Here is a picture of an early production sample prototype on Tom's bike. No silkscreen logos or anything on there yet.
> 
> ...


That is exactly how I would like my light mounted. Unfortunately I don't own and have never owned any action cams and I am completely unfamiliar with the mounts etc. could you possibly get Tom to post a link to where to purchase the mount he used to get the light on his bike like that? Please and thank you. That would make my search much easier.

I know you said you have competent engineers etc but have they tested the charging at the 50+ cycles to see if there is any degradation in capacity etc vs 3-4-5-10 times bench testing? I'm not feeding the troll but safety (longevity... not day 1 but more like 3-6 months down the road) is a concern.

A runtime graph would be nice too if you happen to have one.

Has the manual been completed yet? Can we a peak at it so I can read up before my 2 lights arrive?

Thanks


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## 6feet10 (Aug 10, 2017)

Thanks @outbound, I'm also interested in Tom's mount options. I want to use the hangover for two scenarios: (1) night rides, hangover on the helmet, bigger light on the bar with external batteries. (2) backup light on the bar, when I don't make it home before dawn.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

6feet10 said:


> ......And I would like to mount it below my bars with a gopro spacer mount like this one:
> https://www.lupine-shop.com/en/acce...ike-light-accessories/1739/gopro-mount-spacer


Mounting below the bars often requires re-routing shifter cables and brake hoses so they don't interfere with the beam. Also you will want to watch out that the mount won't hit the top tube if the bars get spun around in a crash.

This pic shows an under bar setup one of my sons used a bit. Tidy, but shows the potential for cables getting in the beam. Especially when the cable flop up and down some on rough trail.









I use a stem faceplate with GoPro mount built-in for my bar light. Best mount I have used. I made mine,









but alternatives can be bought.

https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...MI54ba-v-W5QIVkxh9Ch0MFwslEAQYAiABEgIEefD_BwE

https://www.amazon.com/Gub-Handleba...hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-573055326412

I have never bought or used either of the above so no idea about the quality. Links are just for reference.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

6feet10 said:


> I would be interested how the gopro helmet mount looks like. Can you show us a picture? And I would like to mount it below my bars with a gopro spacer mount like this one:
> https://www.lupine-shop.com/en/acce...ike-light-accessories/1739/gopro-mount-spacer


If you look at the Outbound Store Webpage, there is a nice picture which shows the GoPro Mount of the lamp housing. _Edit: In the last picture of that instagram post the GoPro mount incl. a helmet mount is shown as well_
Since you're according to your profile able to read german, keep in mind that in the lupine forum one user complained that the gopro counter part (the male one?) to the lupine spacer (with the female one?) is thicker than the standard gopro mounts. So using the hangover you might need adjusting washers (Pass-scheiben) in combination with the lupine spacer...

Edit: Here some arguments to show that lostplaces rambling (post #132) on the charging issue is completely useless:


We don't know what charging profile Outbound is using in his Hangover and Outbound is not forced to disclose this. A proper charging profile with varying or even pulsing charge rate (depending on the state of charge (SOC) of the battery cell) can do the job. I know (from people working there) that car manufacturers do research with charging profiles where in certain SOC rates up to 4 C are used. 
for those that don't know what a C-Rate is: it relates the (dis)charge current to the cells capacity. I.e. for a 3300 mAh cell 1 C represents a (dis)charge current of 3300 mA, 0.5 C 1650 mA, 1.5 C 4950 mA 
Most probably the used charger does not have a varying charge rate in the constant current (CC) phase of the charging. Since he showed no information on the charging profile of that charger and we don't know the charge profile for the hangover lamp, the whole test itself is useless. 
Moreover he charged the stated cells with charging rates beyond the specified maximum: LG INR18650 F1L has max charge rate of 0.5 C / 1600 mA, the other two have max charge rates of 1 C. He could have i.e. used a LG ICR 18650 HG2 cell, which is specified to 1.5 C charging rate. That would have made his test at least a bit useful, but this way it was just a waste of time and batteries. 
We don't know what cell outbund is using and again he is not obliged to disclose that information. 

The only proper way to investigate whether the hangover charge profile is safe (of which i am sure) would be to buy the light, and do i.e. 100 charge/discharge cycles using the lamp to quick charge the battery, then take out the battery and discharge it while recording the current/voltage to get the remaining capacity. Again, i am pretty sure Outbound (or his electrical engineer) did something like this.

I personally strongly think that we can trust Outbound that he only uses cells that survive the applied charging protocoll. He has proved his trustworthiness and competence over time, while lostplaces has proved his incompetence in some fields a bit too often.


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## JDHutch (Sep 29, 2017)

On an endurance ride where weight is a big factor what are your thoughts on running the Hangover light on both the helmet and bars? Heck you could even carry a third one as backup in case batteries die without much weight penalty. And it’s obviously a cheaper solution. Thoughts?


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## hibo3 (Aug 30, 2019)

A third light as a back up may be excessive. The light can be charged while running by USB C from a suitable battery pack.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

Outbound said:


> Alright, update time...we are committed to delivering a seriously quality product. Hoping late October or first week of Nov.


Not to be antsy, but the time change is this weekend and night riding becomes mandatory for us working stiffs. Any ETA on the product? My son and I are itching!


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Hopefully soon...I'm also looking forward to getting this light! Luckily I have my trusty NiteRider Lumina 900 and have gotten 8-10 night rides in.


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

here how top tech helmet lights looks like.
~100 grams.
up to 2000 real lumens.

free decision on 3 different state of the art LED techs.

for throw new Osrams.
for great power and great beam profile state of the art Samsung LED.
for users what prefer High CRI on the trail Nichia option.

H50 HEADLIGHT|AceBeam®-Official Site


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## richard1hammond (Sep 18, 2019)

lostplaces said:


> here how top tech helmet lights looks like.
> ~100 grams.
> up to 2000 real lumens.
> 
> ...


Lol no this is what a spam comment looks like... looks like every other fake stats Chinese knock off but quadruple the price because they made a website

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

richard1hammond said:


> Lol no this is what a spam comment looks like... looks like every other fake stats Chinese knock off but quadruple the price because they made a website
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope. I will stand up and say an AceBeam product is certainly not at all like any other Chinese knock-off brand and this light is in fact offering some very good LED options. However, I do not agree with lostplaces and his seemingly "spamming" posts and constantly bad talking Outbound's products.

-Garry


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## richard1hammond (Sep 18, 2019)

garrybunk said:


> Nope. I will stand up and say an AceBeam product is certainly not at all like any other Chinese knock-off brand and this light is in fact offering some very good LED options. However, I do not agree with lostplaces and his seemingly "spamming" posts and constantly bad talking Outbound's products.
> 
> -Garry


What's the topic of this tread buddy? It's not a generic light discussion so if it's not outbound lighting it's off topic aka spamming! Honestly didn't look into is as it's not related to the topic of the tread. There's many other treads for other brands of lights

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

richard1hammond said:


> What's the topic of this tread buddy? It's not a generic light discussion so if it's not outbound lighting it's off topic aka spamming! Honestly didn't look into is as it's not related to the topic of the tread. There's many other treads for other brands of lights
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Absolutely correct! That's the main reason I disagree with lostplaces posting his content in places it doesn't belong. (I don't mind him posting this stuff in the "recommendation" threads or the "Cheap Chinese Lights" threads and do think he sometimes shares decent information.) This type of posting by him certainly makes him look like a spammer (which I really don't believe he is). He is going to get himself banned if he doesn't knock it off.

-Garry


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

@Outbound, I see you're claiming a 2 hour runtime for this light but I couldn't help but notice you've done your testing Sedona, AZ.

As someone who lives in Michigan I'd be curious to hear if you've done any real world cold weather (sub 30 degrees F) testing on battery life?

Thanks.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

lostplaces said:


> free decision on 3 different state of the art LED techs.


But absolutely zero tech in the optics.


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## Arebee (Sep 13, 2012)

driver bob said:


> It's time to step in here and try and calm this thread down.
> 
> @Lostplaces : Your contributions to other lighting threads (from what I have read) are quite constructive but in this thread it's derailing a startup who is trying to put a product to market.


I have yet to see anything constructive from one of his posts. 78 posts on a MOUNTAIN BIKING forum, ALL in the lighting forum and EVERY ONE shilling for his lights or bad-mouthing any light that isn't one of these lights.

Every time I look at a light post I have to wade through posts filled with his crap to find something meaningful.


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## Arebee (Sep 13, 2012)

Stahr_Nut said:


> @Outbound, I see you're claiming a 2 hour runtime for this light but I couldn't help but notice you've done your testing Sedona, AZ.
> 
> As someone who lives in Michigan I'd be curious to hear if you've done any real world cold weather (sub 30 degrees F) testing on battery life?
> 
> Thanks.


Volunteering as a guinea pig for cold weather testing in New England! 36 degrees on my night ride last night!


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

A little bummed that this is dragging out and there hasn't been an update. I spent $150 last night on two night riders for my son and I since not sure when the Hangover is going to be shipped


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## abomofo (Aug 7, 2017)

Arebee said:


> I have yet to see anything constructive from one of his posts. 78 posts on a MOUNTAIN BIKING forum, ALL in the lighting forum and EVERY ONE shilling for his lights or bad-mouthing any light that isn't one of these lights.
> 
> Every time I look at a light post I have to wade through posts filled with his crap to find something meaningful.


This guy is only here for his own ego and agenda. I get wanting to know more about a light that is curious, but disagree with his tones and methods 110%. His approach to this screams to me, "tell me how you are doing this in implicit detail so that I can cheaply copy and undercut you via whatever non-us manufacturing methods I can find."

So following this thread now, in a much mellower method... Thank you MTBR for having this lovely feature in the forums.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

roughster said:


> A little bummed that this is dragging out and there hasn't been an update. I spent $150 last night on two night riders for my son and I since not sure when the Hangover is going to be shipped


Yeah, the delays are a bummer but not unexpected, I'd definitely be more bummed if I didn't have plenty of other lights. To his credit Matt is much more open about the process than most vendors and his Kickstarter, while late, was significantly less late than any other similar one I am aware of and much better communicated throughout.

For the current Hangover project, he sent out a detailed email update on October 15th: "...The result of this is probably obvious at this point, we are still delayed and won't meet the goal that we set out last month of shipping by now. Realistically we are looking at another 3-4 weeks as production has now been green-lit and all we can do is play the waiting game with our suppliers..."

and posted this a couple of days ago on IG: "Production is in full swing with #hangover! Hope to receive all our parts within two weeks or so."

So hopefully it won't be too much longer.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Stahr_Nut said:


> @Outbound, I see you're claiming a 2 hour runtime for this light but I couldn't help but notice you've done your testing Sedona, AZ.
> 
> As someone who lives in Michigan I'd be curious to hear if you've done any real world cold weather (sub 30 degrees F) testing on battery life?
> 
> Thanks.


runtime testing was most probably done at standard conditions (20 °C/ 68 °F). Below freezing point i would substract up to 30% of runtime, just to be on the safe side. It is still a LiIon cell, and has the same issues with cold temperature that batteries in electric vehicles have as well...


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Hey guys, sorry for not checking in here as often as I used to. It's been a wild few weeks.

We are indeed finally getting to the light at the end of the tunnel regarding Hangover. The delays sucked, a lot, but were nessecary to have a quality product. I could have easily tried to ship a month ago to get the enormous revenue that happens right now, but it would have been a bad move with a rushed product. We probably lost out on easily $30-40k of revenue by delaying things but I'm focused on the long term.

One exciting thing was moving out of the spare bedroom I've been operating the company out of and into a new commercial lease space. It's taken a while to get all setup but now getting humming along. It doesn't look like much now, but imagine all this stuff crammed into a 200 sqft bedroom and closet. 

















This is already allowing me to better plan inventory, order more to try and prevent stockouts, and eventually can be more confident hiring part time help.

Speaking of, if anyone is in the Chicago area and wants to make some money on the side by coming in for a few hours or a day or two a week to help build lights, get in touch with me. Willing to pay well for someone who's reliable and can work fast. Unfortunately no full-time positions yet.

As for hangover, hopefully all our hard parts will arrive in the next week or so and can start the full production. The Pinkbike review on the Trail Edition caused my inventory to explode on the Trail/Road side, so it's going to be a really busy couple of weeks trying to keep up.

Going to be working on pre-stuffing 1500 boxes so that when all the parts arrive, we drop the PCB and battery in, align the optic, screw it together, toss it in the box, and then right into the padded mailer and out the door. Now around 1100 of these that we need to make.

Really appriciate everyone's patience, it's been a wild ride so far with lots of ups and downs (more ups lately!) working to get this business rolling and new products rolling out. Hopefully any new products from here on out will not need a big pre-order this early, if at all.


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

awesome, can't wait for my hangover to ship!


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Since you're anyway out of stock of PCBs and LED boards for the Focal Series again (congrats to that review and your business development!), there is a good chance you can focus on producing those 1100 hangovers first :cornut:


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

abomofo said:


> This guy is only here for his own ego and agenda.


i am only here coz i have some technical questions to hangover and never get serious answers on them.

simple look on the first post here.
you make here the agenda what is alowed to ask?

*he call by himself* this product the lightest/smallest helmet light.
the truth is there are alot of 100g lights on the market, what are smaller and better performing.
i own by myself some of them.

thats why i was wondering why hew call this bulky looking thing the lightest and smallest.

i asked him how he comes on the idea to get from 6 very bad performing LED more then the double of runtime out that i get from exact the same LED that i have measured.

to clear that question i asked him to show a runtimegraph what is no big deal.
to this day nothing comes, that says more than alot.
mr outbound by himself gives the proof that he never measure whatever.

the truth about the possible output from a 6x of this LEDs with a 3000mah battery is ~450 lumen for 2 Hours."the half promise"

the truth we will see in a runtimegraph, but not from outbound.

and the last question was also bound to the first post.
he declar all other companys to be nerds coz they use *save Battery charge currents* on build in batterys, what result in ~2,5 Hours of charge time or more for an Li-Ion round batterys.
thats why fast switsch empty to full battery is an importend part of pro helmet lights.

Only outbound can pump into a Li-Ion battery up to 4 Amps and charge it in 1 Hour.
the truth is what i write before about that, and that is possible that it ends in a thermal runaway.

To heavy overcurrent in charge round Li-ion batterys what ends in fast destruction use for pro marketing i never have seen befor, and call that a good feature.
t
he other confusing part from that is that mr outbound write in post 17 that he will charge a 3350mah? battery with 3A current with CC/CV this will end in 1 hour and 20 minutes charge time.:skep:
or the light have build in a buck converter charge circuit?

you see no clear tech infos on any way.

and 5 bil people and all companys in the world are in wrong to use full 6061 up to 7075 Aluminium bodys as the main cooling solution for lights about there best ratio in weight, strengh and thermal resistance,.

noooo, magnesium is the big ruler in all therms but that only knows Outbound.
and thats why only the lower part ist this metal, the upper part is plastic?......:thumbsup:

That all is more then cunfusing and if you think its not right to talk about all of that.


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

Regarding lostplaces' questions I did some calculations - just based on datasheets from Cree and Outbound.

850lm out of 6 led = 140lm/led
Cree XQ-E high: about 130lm/W (depending on version and binning... 130 is more on the positive side)
=> about 6.5W needed @2.9V
=> about 2.25A 

LG Battery (Outbound Specs): 3300mAh
Drawing around 2A current usually batteries can deliver 90% of their nominal capacity before they reach 3.0V
So let's assume 3000mAh
÷2.25A
=1h20min runtime.

This makes me curious,too: how does this light gain 2h runtime @850lm?

Just found the answer above: decreasing output to 75% = 640lm.
Even if the light would start on 640lm, a 2h runtime can't be calculated:
as above: 640 lm => 1.8A
3000mAh÷1.8A= 1h40min.

So this is of course just a calculation and I'm pretty sure that you will deliver what you promise, but a runtime chart would be very convincing.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Slipway said:


> Regarding lostplaces' questions I did some calculations - just based on datasheets from Cree and Outbound.
> 
> 850lm out of 6 led = 140lm/led
> Cree XQ-E high: about 130lm/W (depending on version and binning... this is a more on the positive side)
> ...


I'm not an electronics guy so I can't comment on your calcs but I have been night riding for almost 20 years now and have owned over a dozen different lighting systems from all kinds of companies big and small. The unfortunate reality is not a single one of those systems has ever delivered on their advertised run time. For what ever reason having to deal with advertised run times vs actual run times is a game we MTBers have learned we need to play.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

*Old arguments again*

Just saw on the homepage, the new light has a CE marking on the housing :thumbsup: Good for european customers in case of picky customs officers

Here we go again, lostplaces remains unaffected by any arguments. It seems he wants the technical questions only answered, if those answers support his beliefs. Is this not the case, his questions are not answered. Except for the runtime graph all his "questions" were answered and these calculation and explanations were never countered by him with any reasonable and substantial arguments...

tl;dr: check the old posts #18, #83,#92,#95,#98,#100,#140 for answers. MrMole most probably will provide a runtime graph once has the light in his hands 


on his "problems" with the charging time and safety and his fast charging "experiments", see the reply in post #140 
that argument regarding the weight is ridiculous, Outbound had stated that he compares to specifically designed bike helmet light, not to (multi-porpose) flashlights as lostplaces does. 
Regarding lumen output: outbound clearly stated in post #92 he doesn't care about lumen level, he focuses on proper light distribution (which is measured in lux). And lux meters are fairly cheap (compared to a integrating sphere to measure lumens) and the measurements are quickly done with a quickly selfmade measurement screen, where a few points are defined.
lostplaces interprets every single datasheet of LEDs worse than they are, except for the XHP leds, for those he adds another 50% on top on the data sheet value. His reasoning for that (discussing xml-2 and xhp leds, both from cree, in a german forum): Cree as a manufacturer has no clue what to put in a datasheet....:eekster: 



Slipway said:


> Regarding lostplaces' questions I did some calculations - just based on datasheets from Cree and Outbound.
> [...] This makes me curious,too: how does this light gain 2h runtime @850lm?


i made a more detailed calculation and one can obtain 850 lm @ 6 W (chiplumens, not out the front). One needs to consider the lower operating (compared to binning) temperature. Admittedly, that a calculation is a bit on the positive edge, but not unrealistic. see post#95, #98, #100 
runtime: see outbounds post #79, keep in mind that he talks about chiplumens, not out-the front lumens. In post #18 (last paragraph) he gives a runtime definition: light delivers at least 75% of the original output during that time. 
regarding "bad" properties of magnesium, see outbound's answer in post #83, and check post #95. 
LEDs in the Hangover produce a thermal load of ~4 W. For that amount it is plenty sufficient to have only the one half of the housing made from magnesium alloy: A quick back-on-the-envelope calculation (Edit: finally one without stupid mistakes) gives a thermal conductivity of at least 41 - 62 W/K (considering the dimensions of the Mg alloy housing part). So the limiting factor is the heat transfer to the air (which depends on air flow, turbulences and exposed surface area, but not on the properties of Mg), as stated by Outbound. lostplaces is still so lost in the field of thermal conductivity and heat transfer, that he still thinks the idea of a bike lamp body/housing is to store heat (in this case alumina or copper might be more useful...). No argument or calculation can convince him, since most (handheld) flashlights are made of copper or alumina this must be the only truth. The fact that the boundary conditions for heat transfer from a metal body to the air are in case of a bike light quite different is beyond his knowledge and understanding.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Slipway said:


> LG Battery (Outbound Specs): 3300mAh
> Drawing around 2A current usually batteries can deliver 90% of their nominal capacity before they reach 3.0V
> So let's assume 3000mAh
> ÷2.25A
> ...


The CREE's current draw is rated at ~3v forward voltage; the 18650's capacity is rated at over 3.5v.

Does anybody here actually know watt they're talking about?


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> The CREE's current draw is rated at ~3v forward voltage; the 18650's capacity is rated at over 3.5v.
> 
> Does anybody here actually know watt they're talking about?


What is unclear? Maybe I can help.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Slipway said:


> What is unclear? Maybe I can help.


Watts. This has been extensively discussed already in this thread. So, no...you're not helping the discussion.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> ...Does anybody here actually know watt they're talking about?...


 Good one.


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> Watts. This has been extensively discussed already in this thread. So, no...you're not helping the discussion.


Sorry that you find this unhelpful but it's my question in this discussion thread - and as far as I've read, it's unanswered.


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

biking_tg said:


> Just saw on the homepage, the new light has a CE marking on the housing :thumbsup: Good for european customers in case of picky customs officers ...
> . [/SIZE]
> [/LIST]


I Missed your calculation - would have saved some writing. And in reality it doesn't matter if 6W or 6.5W are needed. But nevertheless for me the runtime topic is still unanswered,would be great to have a statement from outbound.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

lostplaces said:


> i am only here coz i have some technical questions to hangover......


It actually seems you are here to try and persuade everyone that a silly cheap flashlight is the ultimate light system for Mt bike use. We all understand by now that those satisfy your needs. What satisfies you is not going to satisfy everyone.

Look back at post #134 and do as the moderator requested. As he said, if Outbound has messed up this light design as you say, it will crash and burn on its own.


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## hibo3 (Aug 30, 2019)

So many experts here (not me). Maybe time better spent experiencing the light before posting opinions. I'm eagerly waiting in anticipation.

Martin.


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## RipleyV4 (Aug 3, 2019)

If you Preordered check your email. Matt sent out an update for shipping and he is estimating we should have them before turkey day. Fingers crossed


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

I had pretty much forced myself to not repeatedly check for status, but I searched my overflowing inbox and did find the same status email. Sweet!

I'm really looking forward to no wires on the bars and helmet.


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## 6feet10 (Aug 10, 2017)

I have no mail in my inbox. Hope I get the next batch. First come, first serve. ab


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## Narrowback (Mar 26, 2017)

Yes! I got the email a couple of days ago. #wringing hands


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Anybody get their lights yet?


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## RipleyV4 (Aug 3, 2019)

Check your email folks, the lights will be shipping out next week.


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## richard1hammond (Sep 18, 2019)

Just got the email too! Excited to get out on the trails with my Outbound Trail and Headlight combo! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Narrowback (Mar 26, 2017)

Yup, me too. Can't wait to get on the trails with it.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Happy to see the email!!! Rain and colder temps. in the forecast so good chance I wouldn't have gotten to use the light for a few days anyway. Excitement about the 100 lux @ 10m far overshadows having to wait a little longer for the light. That's almost as good a reading as the OB road, more than I expected, and very good for a sub 1000 lumen self-contained light.:thumbsup:
Mole


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## JDHutch (Sep 29, 2017)

How would the Road Edition perform on the trail and how would the Trail Edition perform on the road? You know...if I was only going to purchase one for the bars. I'm going to order the Hangover to supplement. Most of my riding is on trails but I am looking to start doing some more road/gravel riding.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Either would perform reasonably well. If you're going to ride off-road, I prefer not having the cut-off of the Road lamp limit the vertical illumination (especially on trails with lots of elevation change). I use the Road lamp for commuting, and on one local mixed-surface route because half of the route is busy streets/highways and the other half is flat FSR. I run the Trail for all other mixed-surface events/rides.


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## icycle (Apr 20, 2004)

Agree with Vegas--if the trails you ride have ups & downs, you will want the vertical range of the Trail if running it on the bar.


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## chris49582 (Dec 16, 2013)

Has anyone received a shipping notice yet?


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

No, but I took "Friday" to mean they would be shipped *this* Friday, not the one during a major holiday.


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## icycle (Apr 20, 2004)

wschruba said:


> No, but I took "Friday" to mean they would be shipped *this* Friday, not the one during a major holiday.


My read of it was that the parts were in customs, should arrive by last Friday, and the builds would be shipping out this week as they were done.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

On his instagram account outbound posted that all parts have arrived and he startet assembling them this morning. So there should pop up some shipping notes by tonight or tomorrow...


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

biking_tg said:


> On his instagram account outbound posted that all parts have arrived and he startet assembling them this morning. So there should pop up some shipping notes by tonight or tomorrow...


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

chris49582 said:


> Has anyone received a shipping notice yet?


YES! About 30 minutes ago!


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Velodonata said:


> YES! About 30 minutes ago!


Damnit man!! Where's mine?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Clewis9593 (Jan 5, 2019)

I got a notice this afternoon. Was hoping to have it for a ride tomorrow night.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

:thumbsup: Mole


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I just placed and order for one for me and one for my wife.


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

I ordered mine a couple months ago towards the end of the pre-order. Still no shipping notification.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

sptimmy43 said:


> I ordered mine a couple months ago towards the end of the pre-order. Still no shipping notification.


I know of at least one other person who didn't order right away and still hasn't received a shipping notification yet so your not alone. Order date was noted on my shipping notification so quite possible they are shipping first come first serve. I ordered my lights in May and USPS still says I should get my lights by the end of today (Ya!).
Mole


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

sptimmy43 said:


> I ordered mine a couple months ago towards the end of the pre-order. Still no shipping notification.


Same. But I got the status update emails, so I assume they're fulfilling orders sequentially.


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## Narrowback (Mar 26, 2017)

I ordered mine at the end of September and haven't received a notice yet.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

They came early!!! Figured a picture was called for. Units look pretty nice. 100 grams on my non-digital food scale. Both lights need charging so that's all I've got for now.
Mole


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Mine has arrived (I ordered it back in May)! Fit and finish looks great; can't wait to get it out in the dark to evaluate the beam-pattern. I'm sure somebody is gonna throw a fit about the *ahem* 1.9-hr run-time on high (stated on the product info card...can't fault them for their ambition); but, I bought this lamp 1) for the 9-hr run-time on low, and 2) to use with my dynamo hub in pass-thru, so my lighting needs are at the other end of the spectrum as compared to other OL customers.

If the shake-down with the dynamo goes well this week (i.e. I can generate enough current through my dynamo+charging circuit), my Hangover should see 24-30+ hours of burn-time as my primary light this weekend. I'll report back with my ride-impressions.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Mole,
Looking forward to hearing your impressions and comparisons to other lights as to beam pattern, throw distance, etc.

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Mole,
> Looking forward to hearing your impressions and comparisons to other lights as to beam pattern, throw distance, etc.
> 
> -Garry


A storm moved through here about 4:30 this afternoon and soaked everything so actual ride testing will have to wait till tomorrow (fingers crossed). I did get the lights charged but at this point have only shined them on the wall compared to a few other lights. Hot spot is narrow but very intense and appears brighter than any of my single cell lights, even the Ion 1300. Will get my light meter out later and measure the mode strengths + max lux. I really wanted to get some ride time with the Hangover but maybe someone else will get a chance to try theirs out and share their impression of the light.
Mole


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

evasive said:


> Same. But I got the status update emails, so I assume they're fulfilling orders sequentially.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*1st run by the light meter*



Like all the OB lights I've tested these were definitely designed with a purpose which in this case is excellent throw. They produced a respectable but not great 800 lumens but also equivalent max. lux readings to what I get from my newest Gloworm X2 (far better than expected). Hot spot of the beam is fairly narrow but impossible to say how it will actually work till I get to use it on the bike. Only real negative thing I've found so far is a much lower output than expected med. mode (250-300 lumens). Though no actual output claims were made by OB for the claimed runtimes of the med. mode I would have expected double the output they actually have (far more usable for me). Looking forward to my first ride with the Hangover!
Mole


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

I've been patiently waiting for my order from early July. My Gloworm x2 died without warning on tonight's ride, so my patience is being tested with the delivery reports. Stoked!


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

Interested to see the real world results, product sure looks good. Hope the performance meets everyones expectations.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Got my shipping notice. 

7/6 order date


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## MrGT (Aug 19, 2005)

Medium mode does sound disappointingly low given this is likely the most used mode. Honestly I can’t see using this light for anything other than a summertime urban or road riding scenario. I doubt very highly that I will be using it on trails.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

MrGT said:


> Medium mode does sound disappointingly low given this is likely the most used mode. Honestly I can't see using this light for anything other than a summertime urban or road riding scenario. I doubt very highly that I will be using it on trails.


Weird. I almost always use high except on fire roads or waiting at regroups.


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## MrGT (Aug 19, 2005)

It’s not weird when you are trying to conserve battery. If the stated runtime of 1.9 hours on high is true I’d run out of light on almost every ride. I only use high on technical sections of trail or when going fast and going downhill. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but to say it’s weird I feel is the wrong choice of words. Many people on this forum would argue that medium is the most useful setting on their lights because it blurs that line between output and longer run times.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

I got mine last night. Had less than 25% charge so I left it charging today. The unit itself looks to be a great quality. The rubber port cover doesn't stay in place after charging all day though. The other thing I'm very concerned about is the high frequency noise it makes when turned on. I have tinnitus (which I hate), so high pitched sounds drive me crazy. I'm not sure If I would be able to hear it when its mounted on my helmet and I'm actually riding, but I don't know yet. Maybe I'm just super sensitive to these kinds of sounds, but the road and trail lights I have from Outbound don't make any noise. I've never mounted anything to my helmet like this before. I hope my helmet will have enough "purchase" space for where I'll need to try and stick the mount. Anyone have any tips for mounting like this since I've never done before? I'm gonna go out i the street in a few hours and see how it looks in the dark. I'm sure I'll be happy with the brightness and the beam softness and spread.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

While I used the supplied cord to slow charge today (since it's not USB C on both ends), I just found out that the charger for my Macbook will rapid charge the Hangover based on the LED animation going faster as mentioned on the enclosed info sheet. Good to know, so I thought I'd pass it on.


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## MrGT (Aug 19, 2005)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> I got mine last night. Had less than 25% charge so I left it charging today. The unit itself looks to be a great quality. The rubber port cover doesn't stay in place after charging all day though. The other thing I'm very concerned about is the high frequency noise it makes when turned on. I have tinnitus (which I hate), so high pitched sounds drive me crazy. I'm not sure If I would be able to hear it when its mounted on my helmet and I'm actually riding, but I don't know yet. Maybe I'm just super sensitive to these kinds of sounds, but the road and trail lights I have from Outbound don't make any noise. I've never mounted anything to my helmet like this before. I hope my helmet will have enough "purchase" space for where I'll need to try and stick the mount. Anyone have any tips for mounting like this since I've never done before? I'm gonna go out i the street in a few hours and see how it looks in the dark. I'm sure I'll be happy with the brightness and the beam softness and spread.


I have tinnitus myself, right ear is ringing like hell as I type this. I don't have my light yet but going to be listening for this myself.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

7/2/19 order date, shipping notice today. Yippeee! I ride at night a lot and will vary my technique depending on the length of my ride. If I'm doing a normal ride 1-1.5 hours, I'll pretty much just blast away on high except for long climbs (which can be >30 minutes in duration). A medium of 250-300 would totally suffice for that purpose for me... For longer more variable rides without sustained climbing, that medium mode might be less useful.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Both my lights make the high pitched whine but it's very faint. 

First ride with the lights went pretty well. Everything is still soaked from yesterdays rain so mostly paved surfaces but did find a little dirt with good drainage that allowed me to avoid most of its muddy areas. Like OB's road and trail models the Hangover is far more impressive to ride with than the beam pattern on the wall or measured test numbers would lead you to believe. With its weak med. mode output and narrow hot spot I really thought I was going to hate the Hangover on the bars but that was not the case. Hot spot all but disappears when aimed for throw and spill softly but effectively illuminates a fairly wide area around the front wheel and out a ways so your not blindly going into turns. The med. mode seem much more powerful than my light-meter readings and my ride impression of throw is that the med. mode probably has more throw than any of the single cell sub 1000 lumen lights that I've tried do in high or boost. Beam is definitely on the narrow side of ideal for mtn biking but I'm liking it for road or path use, especially at faster speeds. I did have my 2nd Hangover mounted on my helmet but only ran it for about 10 min. so not enough time to draw any worthwhile conclusions (next time when it's drier!).
Mole


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Hey guys. Long time no chat eh?

I got a few minutes before going back to the warehouse for day 5 of my 12 hour days. We are about halfway through building and shipping orders. All July orders going out this morning should have all August orders built today and partially shipped. We have a 3pm cutoff line for when USPS comes and picks up orders, but near the end of the day is when we are batch building hard and putting the final touches on the lights.

I've hired a few people to work for me on this temporary basis, might become permanent. The demand during Black Friday was 15 times what it was last year, insane.

Glad to hear you guys are enjoying Hangover so far. As mentioned it is indeed a very purposefully designed beam pattern and light. It was quite challenging to get the beam pattern to be peaky, but still fall-off nicely. I'll address a few things:

1. *The hum*. So this was/is an issue that I'm literally blind to because I am hard-of-hearing, and physically cannot hear frequencies above 14-15khz. So to me, the light was dead silent. The electrical engineer who worked on it did detect a slight hum but that is because of the switching frequency selected for optimum efficiency. He felt it was quiet enough that it wouldn't be noticeable when actually riding and using the light. However, it's clear that some customers are far more noticeable about it than others. We are working on a software fix that changes the switching frequency that should reduce or eliminate the noise entirely. For those that it is bothersome, we'll get the lights switched out for the updated software version. For future light runs (starting January 2020) the problem will be eliminated entirely.

2. *USB Door*. We've had some reports that some of the doors don't close fully. We didn't notice this in the 20 or so sample units we had, but felt it could be tighter. One of those things that slipped through in the rush of trying to get this light developed and fixing the more major issues that we were having (such as bad optical alignment). But not to worry, the USB-C port itself is actually waterproof and has an integrated gasket. The door acts merely as secondary protection. I had debated even just leaving the door off entirely since all modern phones are now waterproof and have the ports open.... but ended up putting the door in as dust and mud protection more than anything.

Again this is something we'll fix for sure in future runs, and is why started out with only 1,500 units instead of 15,000. Always going to find something to improve on quickly once 1000 people start using the product instead of just 3-4. Remember the straps breaking on the Focal Trail/Road lights? Haha...yikes....

3. *Lumen output*. I had a feeling someone was going to start bringing up the "low lumen output". 

As mentioned, this was designed like our other lights, with a specific profile and beam pattern in mind. In this case, it was a punchy throw that's fixed to the helmet, so it can have a tighter beam. Also, a punchy beam that blends well into the surrounding forest or desert when in use. So when aimed at a wall it definitely looks tight, but when take it into the woods and start to ride, unless you are looking at something up close the hotspot will "melt away" as you ride.

It was actually quite a challenge and part of why we had months of delays, was getting that beam pattern dialed in. The first one was a bit too broad and not the punch we wanted, the second one was too tight and not enough spill. Third one was justttttt right. The mix of the blended TIR and the outer flutes with some surface finish changes gives that punch with the falloff required for our eyes to perceive the higher overall brightness.

Speaking of the perceived brightness. The complaints about the medium mode "only" being 250-300 lumens makes me chuckle. As I had mentioned during the development. We weren't picking the modes based off of graphs and charts. We were going to pick them based on real-world use and what "feels" like a proper middle ground between low and high, as well as what is actually a fair amount of usable light that balances battery conservation. Check out this paper on why dimming and linearity don't go together:

http://www.pathwaylighting.com/prod...Linear+vs+Logarithmic+Dimming+White+Paper.pdf



> Everyone understands that dimming simply means
> reducing the amount of light emitted from a light
> fixture (luminaire). However, the manner in which
> the light level is reduced and how it is perceived
> ...


So yep, if you compare the medium mode, or the overall lumens in a pure lumen-to-lumen to other lights, we'll come out last every time, but we don't care. Just like the other OL lights, we design with human factors in mind and how our eyes actually perceive light, not just what photometric instruments like goniphotometers, lux meters, or integrating spheres report. *It's ALWAYS our goal to use as LITTLE lumens as possible. *

So to hear that you measured 800 lumens and yet the same performance if not higher peak lux than the 1700 lumen Gloworm X2 makes me smile. Our actual out-the-front lumens if you put it into an integrating sphere will probably measure something like 650-700 lumens since we have a blended TIR approach which causes a drop in optical efficiency, but makes up for it in the controlled scatter that surrounds the light and makes it nicer to use in the pitch dark.

ANYWAYS. I spent like 30 minutes writing this up when I meant to spend 5. Time to head back to the shop and just keep working. Really want all these orders done by Friday, though looking like will need to keep working more over the weekend and into next week as well.


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## 8Trak (Jan 20, 2004)

Had a good first ride with the Hangover last night. I think the tight beam pattern compliments the OB trail light I have on my bars, but that's going to be subjective. Because of rain/fog, the ride was mainly pavement with some sandy trails thrown in for fun. In the rain/fog, needed to dial the light down to "low" to avoid being the glare (but that's true for any helmet light)... The rest of the time I actually found the "medium" setting to be quite good for most everything... would only anticipate the "bright" setting necessary for some quick/techy sections (which I didn't encounter last night).

The hum: I'm sensitive to this also, and at home was quite concerned and thought about whether I'd need to return it. Even mounted on my helmet I could hear it a little bit. However, outside, never heard or noticed it at all. Just rode. And these things tend to bother me. So I'll probably send it back for the sotware update, but it's not a deal breaker at all.

Mounting: my helmet isn't designed to work well with the adhesive mounts. And I prefer removable mounts anyway. But instead of strapping a different gopro mount to the helment, I gave the adhesive mount a go and cinched it down with a voile nano strap (in black) (https://www.voile.com/nano-series-straps.html). Worked great.

Really impressed with how quickly it charged and the feel/weight of the light on my helmet.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

@8Trak - Can you please post a picture of how you set up your helmet? I'd like to see it as I'm not sure what I'll do with mine. As for the hum, if I can't really hear it when I'm actually out riding IRL I probably won't send it back for the change. Or at least I won't be in any hurry. So glad to hear you didn't think it was a big deal.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

Oh yeah, the port thing is funny. If the rubber cover wasn't included I wouldn't have given it a second thought. I really don't care about it now.

I thought the light seamed very bright in the garage (who cares right), but I was surprised how much throw it had when I pointed it down the street. I feel like this will be a great light for out on the trail. I just need to get myself out there now. Super excited about it. Thanks!


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## MatchBC (Oct 27, 2019)

Looking forward to the light arriving. All the promises of before thanksgiving.. and then last week, and now hearing they're trickling out has made me impatient!

I've got my trail light to do the heavy lifting in the meantime! Keep em coming..


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Mine have arrived home as well. Won’t be able to check them out until Sunday when I am back from business. Keep the reviews coming and please take pics of the helmet and bar mount options (with links to mounting pieces if possible). 

I’m looking forward to using these lights and hoping that the hum doesn’t bother me.


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## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

I received my Hangover light on Monday, after ordering it in early June. I charged it on Tuesday and was able to go for a ride last night (Wednesday). For reference my other helmet light is an old Nightlightning iBlaast with upgraded 3x XML emitters and a 4 cell 18650 battery pack, supposedly putting out 1200-1400 lumens and lasting at least 2 hours on high.

My initial impressions of the Hangover:

Build quality and fit & finish looks great. The button is large and has a good feel to it.
I put it on one of my helmets that already had a GoPro mount stuck to it. However the mount was maybe a bit to far center/rearward on the helmet so I couldn't angle the light down quite as much as I would like to. I'll adjust this for next time.
Brightness on high is good. I can tell that it's not as bright as my other light, but has plenty of light where I need it. Definitely way more light than the 600 lumen lights I have on my bars. Medium is also plenty adequate for most trails, just not the high speed sections. Low is very low and not really useful for riding, but good for walking or standing around.
Beam shape is awesome, definitely way less spotty than my other light. This is most noticeable in that I don't feel like I have to look directly at something to illuminate it, there is always light going in the general direction I want to see.
The high pitched driver noise is noticeable while standing around in a quiet environment, but not really noticeable while riding and doesn't bother me yet.
The USB cover is definitely the slowest rebounding rubber ever, and would be better if it fit tighter into the opening. Good to hear it isn't totally necessary.
Runtime was less than anticipated. I will assume this is mostly due to the ambient temperature last night being around 26 deg F, but I only got about an hour on high. Once the battery charge is down to 1/4, high is no longer usable. I specifically left it on high most of the ride to see what kind of run time I would get. I was only out for about 1.5 hours total, but the battery light was flashing the last bar when I got home. That said I think the Hangover still lasted longer on high than my bar light, which is a Light & Motion Stella 600 with 2 cell battery pack.

I'll have to get a few more rides in to finalize my thoughts. Maybe one of these days I will bring both lights on a ride and do a direct comparison to my other light as well.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

I received my shipping notice this afternoon. I placed the order on August 8, after the preorder discount was extended.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*High mode runtime results*

Black = Hangover high mode









My Hangover ran 61 min. before stepping down to the med. mode and continued to 89 min. where it went to low and I stopped the test because the one remaining indicator light had been flashing for a while. So runtime claims are overstated and lumen output not very impressive but max. lux #'s (throw distance indicator) though diminished from turn on point results still remained best in class (sub 1000 lumen/self-contained). Charge on the fly may end being a valuable option for this light so will have to try that out to see how it performs. Still looks like this may be the best overall self-contained helmet light option but more testing needs to be done before I form any final opinions.
Mole


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> Black = Hangover high mode
> 
> View attachment 1298323
> 
> ...


So it seems that despite the argumentative and spammy nature of his post he was correct in his calcs:



lostplaces said:


> if you try now,
> to reach an Real Output of 800 Lumens in Front of your Light it will cost you ~ 3 Amps or~10-11 Watts energy.
> 
> a single 18650 have ~10 Wh capacity.
> ...


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

MRMOLE said:


> Black = Hangover high mode
> 
> View attachment 1298323
> 
> ...


Thanks for your testing Mole! Glad to hear that you "tell it like it is" too! No disrespect to Matt (Outbound), but I want to hear the "real user results" and not just trust a manufacturer. No doubt it's still a great light!

-Garry


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Man, that's a bummer. I was really hoping for 2 hours on high.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

You know I read Mole's runtimes wrong the first time. I thought it was 61 minutes on high and then another 89 minutes on Medium (of course the graph shows he meant what he said - 89 minutes of actual usable runtime. That's worse than I thought it was. This is running on a pair of 18650's right (the quote from lostplaces above says it's a single 18650)? It seems kind of odd to not get more "usable runtime" out of it, but I guess that's because of the emitters he's using / power they're pulling from the pack. Runtime could increase a bit with some more cycling of the cells.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I ran some quick numbers to compare to my current helmet light setup (a Nitefighter/Revtronic BT21 dual XM-L2 run on a 2 cell Fenix Case). In my DIY sphere that light puts out +/- 900 lumens on high (+/- 1500 on turbo) and draws 1.26A from the pack. So assuming a conservative 3,000 mAh "true" capacity from my two LG MJ1 "3,500mAh" cells and assuming that current draw remained steady, you'd get around 900 lumens for about 2.4hrs. Now that's a completely different light and it's not a self contained setup, but I don't think I'm going to change my setup.

-Garry


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

It’s a single cell


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Well that makes those results seem even better than. I'd personally have made it a 2-cell (or at least bumped up to a 21700 cell) - not too much more size and weight gain for double the runtime. 

-Garry


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Well that makes those results seem even better than. I'd personally have made it a 2-cell (or at least bumped up to a 21700 cell) - not too much more size and weight gain for double the runtime.
> 
> -Garry


Yeah. Looks like I'll pick up a 2 cell that I can strap to my helmet for longer rides.


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

MRMOLE said:


> My Hangover ran 61 min. before stepping down to the med. mode and continued to 89 min. where it went to low


Um, so not only it didn't ran for 2h on High, but it didn't even last 2h after a step-down to Medium?
Could it be a defective battery or it's just how it is and @lostplaces was right after all?


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## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> My Hangover ran 61 min. before stepping down to the med. mode and continued to 89 min. where it went to low and I stopped the test because the one remaining indicator light had been flashing for a while. So runtime claims are overstated and lumen output not very impressive but max. lux #'s (throw distance indicator) though diminished from turn on point results still remained best in class (sub 1000 lumen/self-contained). Charge on the fly may end being a valuable option for this light so will have to try that out to see how it performs. Still looks like this may be the best overall self-contained helmet light option but more testing needs to be done before I form any final opinions.
> Mole


This is almost exactly what I experienced on my first ride with this light as well. And I agree, I don't want to form any final opinions yet until I get a few more rides in with it.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

garrybunk said:


> So assuming a conservative 3,000 mAh "true" capacity from my two LG MJ1 "3,500mAh" cells
> -Garry


OB postet a Instagram story, where you could see the writing on the cells: 3.2Ah, 3.7V. I guess the desire for fast charging option made those high capacity cells not suitable, but it seems the same cells are used in the battery packs of the focal series (4cells, 6,4Ah @7,2V)



mestapho said:


> So it seems that despite the argumentative and spammy nature of his post he was correct in his calcs:





Zayphod said:


> Um, so not only it didn't ran for 2h on High, but it didn't even last 2h after a step-down to Medium?
> Could it be a defective battery or it's just how it is and @lostplaces was right after all?


I wouldn't trust a single number from that guy. 
I made a rough calculation myself, and you could get the claimed chip lumens with the best binning at 6-7W power. But for a 2 hour runtime on high the battery cell would have been discharged quite deep.

Maybe the LED binning is not the highest and the actual power draw is higher? But anyway it is clear the claims are too high, thanks for measuring MrMole!


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

These reports aren’t looking too great so far. I bought hoping for 2 hours on high but we barely get 50% of manufacture claimed output. Was this why a runtime graphs was never posted when lostspaces and a few others asked for it? Was it known all along that the light wouldn’t come close to the claims. I even bought 2 based on the claims.


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## MrGT (Aug 19, 2005)

cue003 said:


> These reports aren't looking too great so far. I bought hoping for 2 hours on high but we barely get 50% of manufacture claimed output. Was this why a runtime graphs was never posted when lostspaces and a few others asked for it? Was it known all along that the light wouldn't come close to the claims. I even bought 2 based on the claims.


I didn't pour through every post, was it stated that the light would achieve 2 hours on high or 2 hours total?

So nobody has been able to get two hours on high? Maybe Matt will jump in and explain what the reasons for this are?

Exactly why medium setting is likely the most used . Run low when climbing or on slow flats, use on high on tech sections and flying downhill, medium the rest of the time. IMO.


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

MrGT said:


> I didn't pour through every post, was it stated that the light would achieve 2 hours on high or 2 hours total?
> 
> So nobody has been able to get two hours on high? Maybe Matt will jump in and explain what the reasons for this are?
> 
> Exactly why medium setting is likely the most used . Run low when climbing or on slow flats, use on high on tech sections and flying downhill, medium the rest of the time. IMO.


"2 hours runtime on high" is straight from their website.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Outbound said:


> ......... When we say 2 hours of runtime we are calculating that we'll have around 75% of original output before it conks out. .....


Quoted from post #16..... It is obvious that they were not planning to actually do 2 hours at full output. Sounds like they still came up a bit short of what they hoped for. This is one of the problems that can occur when you state a spec but are still in the very early prototype stage of a product.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Vancbiker said:


> Quoted from post #16..... It is obvious that they were not planning to actually do 2 hours at full output. Sounds like they still came up a bit short of what they hoped for. This is one of the problems that can occur when you state a spec but are still in the very early prototype stage of a product.


Yes, but the website does indeed claim "2 hours runtime on high". Pretty much all of my night rides are in the winter months, and rarely over 3 hours. I don't need even 2 hours on high, but I do need 2+ hours of usable light. I'm patiently waiting for my light. I have a trail edition, and hoped this would be the perfect match. Maybe it's not.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> Quoted from post #16..... It is obvious that they were not planning to actually do 2 hours at full output. Sounds like they still came up a bit short of what they hoped for. This is one of the problems that can occur when you state a spec but are still in the very early prototype stage of a product.


I hear ya but they should have or could have update their marketing materials. I don't have any other if their lights and i guess we will see how these 2 hangover fair. I for sure didn't buy Tim his light to run it on Medium as my primary light source. There was so much talk about how other manufacturers have false claims and don't produce blah blah blah but then this. I hope it was a bait and switch.

Looking forward to more reviews and real world usage on HIGH.

Well you can get 2 hours on high if you buy 2 of them and keep one in your pack to swap out. Lol. That may have to be my approach. Or refunds may be in my immediate future.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

For those of you that the 2 hrs. of runtime in the hi mode was critical in your decision to try the Hangover I agree this does suck! There's still the option to supplement the battery capacity with a powerbank which I will be testing (hopefully later tonight). For the rest of you who haven't received or got a chance to use you Hangover's yet I encourage you to reread "JustMtnB44's" posts (222 & 234). He's the only one I know of that has good trail time with the Hangover, was very impressed with the lights performance, and wants more saddle time before he makes up his mind about the light which is also how I feel after about 60mi. of street and path use + a few mi. of mild trails. Time to go hook up the powerbank!
Mole


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> For those of you that the 2 hrs. of runtime in the hi mode was critical in your decision to try the Hangover I agree this does suck! There's still the option to supplement the battery capacity with a powerbank which I will be testing (hopefully later tonight). For the rest of you who haven't received or got a chance to use you Hangover's yet I encourage you to reread "JustMtnB44's" posts (222 & 234). He's the only one I know of that has good trail time with the Hangover, was very impressed with the lights performance, and wants more saddle time before he makes up his mind about the light which is also how I feel after about 60mi. of street and path use + a few mi. of mild trails. Time to go hook up the powerbank!
> Mole


The option to supplement by carrying a battery pack is a nice one for sure but it shouldn't be needed just to get remotely close to the advertised specs. Even with that said, I am curious to see what you find out when you run it with the external pack and how long it stays before dropping out of high etc. there is also a quick charge option so that could be a workaround as well. I wonder how much it would add if after 60 min it drops out of high to medium and you plug in the pack while off for the minimum quick charge how much more high (if any) do you get.

Thanks for putting in the work MrMole.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

cue003 said:


> The option to supplement by carrying a battery pack is a nice one for sure but it shouldn't be needed just to get remotely close to the advertised specs. Even with that said, I am curious to see what you find out when you run it with the external pack and how long it stays before dropping out of high etc. there is also a quick charge option so that could be a workaround as well. I wonder how much it would add if after 60 min it drops out of high to medium and you plug in the pack while off for the minimum quick charge how much more high (if any) do you get.


I've been playing with single 18650 USB external batteries, so far it seems that you can fatten and flatten up the output and moderately extend the runtime with one connected from the start. Different management strategies would be possible depending on your priorities.

My testing results without an external battery are similar to MrMole's. I haven't had it in the woods yet but overall I like the light, except for the obvious disappointment with how much it falls short of output expectations. But rides in the woods will be the real test.


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## stu06 (Dec 8, 2012)

MRMOLE said:


> Black = Hangover high mode
> 
> View attachment 1298323
> 
> ...


What an incredibly HUGE let down. If I were Matt at Outbound, I'd be embarrassed as hell. I think it's safe to say we've all been sold a bill of goods. It'll be difficult for me to believe his claims in the future.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*$8 5000mAh Amazon powerbank*



Black = Hangover output








Well that was interesting. Power capacity lights on both the light and the battery were some what erratic. At first it didn't seem like any power was being drained from the powerbank as it showed full power (4 lights) till about the 2 hr. point. Light itself dropped a light (1 of 4) after about 45 min. and stayed at 3 lights past the 2 hr. mark. After the 2 hr. mark the battery did drop a light and sometime after 2:30 it quickly dropped 2 more lights and the final one started blinking. When the battery light started blinking the lighthead started cycling through its 4 lights like it was charging. That continued even after the last battery light went out and the light finally just quit at 2:48. Output dimmed in the beginning similar to tests with the internal battery only and dimmed a little more after 2:30 but just went dead at 2:48. Weird but no stepdown and preferable IMO.
Mole


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

MRMOLE said:


> Black = Hangover high mode
> 
> View attachment 1298323
> 
> ...


This is disapointing but to be expected. Even OL can't change the physics


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

Its not disapointing, that this LEDs run on a very low eff point same like i measured it some Years ago.

The disapointing think is that users must measure it by themseve if a company Promise *100%+ more* than possible and not answerd on my question some weeks ago why they to that.

~*600 lumen for one Hour* then step down to 300 lumen for 30 min up to battery empty looks alright an match my measurings from some year.
Thats why i sayed clearly some weeks ago, the best what is to reach will be ~800 lumen for 1 Hour!!!!

the half performance of a much smaller and lighter Zebralight H600 series for example.

the opcomming Astrolux HL01"25$" with SST-20/XP-L HI option will not have any problem to challenge this light to.
and 10.000Lux @1m= same or more throwy then this light.:thumbsup:

An german member have measured the other Outbound light with battery pack to and same result, lightyears away from the promisses.

they promise ~ 1500 lumen for 2,8 Hours.
the reall world looks.

mode 4+5 have same draw for unknown reason, with 20 Watt measured.
the light itself delivers at this 20 Watt 1000 lumen for 1 Hour then the battery pack is *half empty* and the light makes a hard stepdown below 500 Lumen for aditional 1,5 Hours......


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

The whole thing is disapponting from a customers view, with respect to claims which are not achieved in the final product, especially if you ordered because of the runtime claims. It seems there is again a power step down. Is there anything written in the manual, whether this can be disabled?

Maybe i get a chance to test the light at some point, but since i more a cyclocrosser/gravelrider, i have no real need for that light.



lostplaces said:


> [...]
> An german member have mesured the other Outbound light with battery pack to and same result, lightyears away from the promisses.
> 
> they promise ~ 1500 lumen for 2,8 Hours.
> ...


I need to add some information here since lostplaces reads only what he wants to read.....
In this case a focal series was measured, power uptake measured from a lab power supply (@10V, not calibrated). In this case the power draw of the first mode and the second mode were the same (20W) but this is expected, as the first mode is the adaptive mode, which start at the highest power (and then reduces the output), the second mode is the "high" mode. So results are fine. 
Lumen numbers were not measured, that is just guessing from lostplaces.
The power stepdown of the focal series in high mode after roughly 1:10-1:20 was multiple times discussed in the focal thread, but lostplaces seems to be unable to read and understand what was said


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Anybody have an idea why the Hangover wouldn't step-down when hooked up to the powerbank??? 
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

You kept the voltage sag high enough that it didn't reach that trigger voltage level? How'd you mount that power bank? Just a cord down from the light to your pack/pocket?

Pretty much all this disappointment could have been avoided by running 2 cells (yes it would have added weight & yes it would have increased it's size). Now users have to add a power bank or carry another light anyway! 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

lostplaces said:


> the half performance of a much smaller and lighter Zebralight H600 series for example.
> 
> the opcomming Astrolux HL01"25$" with SST-20/XP-L HI option will not have any problem to challenge this light to.
> and 10.000Lux @1m= same or more throwy then this light.:thumbsup:


My only exposure to this style of light is my Sofirn SP40 (A much poorer performing helmet light in spite of its higher lumen #'s compared to the Hangover IMO) which even at its highest output level of 1000 lumens had a lower max. lux measurement than the Hangover did in its 300ish lumen med. mode so I remain skeptical. I would appreciate if you could post something on that Astrolux light in the "self-contained" thread that includes your max. lux readings when you get a chance.
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I can try to do some testing on that HL01 when I get mine. I figure I'll try to do a timelapse showing runtime (maybe temperature of the head too) while it's in my sphere with a fan blowing lightly across it. I can try for beamshots too (though we'll likely be under snow for the next 4 months), but I won't have a Hangover to compare to (would be nice to see how different the beam pattern is in the woods). BTW, I broke down and ordered an SP40 (4000k)off Ali yesterday, so I can compare that too. 

Sorry, don't want to drag this thread off-topic.

-Garry


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

Garry, I totally agree. Staying under 100g doesn't help, when runtime isn't given and you need a powerbank. Because than a helmetlight with an external battery is the cleaner and lighter solution - not even talking of efficiency due to stepdown... 

@mole: did you have the cance to make some real world comparison pictures between a Hangover, your SP40? Would be very interesting to see some beamshots.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Man, what a bummer. I don’t even have my light yet, and I’m already disappointed. I was pretty excited to loose the cord. Sad face. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> You kept the voltage sag high enough that it didn't reach that trigger voltage level? How'd you mount that power bank? Just a cord down from the light to your pack/pocket?
> 
> Pretty much all this disappointment could have been avoided by running 2 cells (yes it would have added weight & yes it would have increased it's size). Now users have to add a power bank or carry another light anyway!
> 
> -Garry


I still would have thought once the powerbank was spent the light would react similar to how it did with only the internal battery. Once the powerbank was fully spent the battery level lights on the lighthead started flashing as if charging till the light shut itself down.

Included usb cable is 39" long so would easily run to my hydration pack. I just had the powerbank sitting next to the light since this was a indoor test. Powerbank only weighs 120 grams so could be strapped to the back of the helmet. They have smaller "lipstick" powerbanks that would probably still extend runtime out to 2 hrs for a lighter option.

Question: Do you know if these Magicshine usb converters reduce the voltage down from the 7.4 volts on the typical bike light battery setups?
Mole


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

MRMOLE said:


> My only exposure to this style of light is my Sofirn SP40 (A much poorer performing helmet light in spite of its higher lumen #'s compared to the Hangover IMO) which even at its highest output level of 1000 lumens had a lower max. lux measurement than the Hangover did in its 300ish lumen med. mode so I remain skeptical.


performance from a light *have nothing *to to with beam profiles "Flood, allround or Throwers".

If you prefer throwers on the helmet, why not, but why always you put your money into alround or flood types?

i prefer for example Flood types thats why i exactly looking for them.

back to a basic, Throw = result of LED size vs Optics ratio.

the sofirn SP40 is for example a allround type same like your sigma buster 700, niteriders and other stuff.
5mm LED"with dome"+~20mm optics= result of ~6000 Lux"=60 lux at 10 meters" at 1000 lumens.

if i like more floody types"dont like jumpiing lightpoints befor my eyes" i take a bigger LED for the same 20mm optics.

put now into the SP40 an XP.L HI in"=domeless typ or SST-20= mini LED" = 2-3x higher lux"throw" is the result.

or put now into the SP40 the white flat"black flat generation 4"= 50000 Lux.
~8 times higher throw will be the result.

depending on what you exactly search for you have to select lights not random buy, and hope that it can be somethink be for you.

ifyou like throwers on the helmet more then allround or flood types, take a look on the thrunite TH20 V2, it uses an XHP35 HI in a 20mm optics= thrower type with ~25000 -lux"~250 lux at 10meters".

i hate laserpointers on my head for example thats why i not touch the TH20.

and the coming HL01 will be placed between the SP40 and the TH20.

~10000 Lux with ~1000 Lumen so a throwy allround helmet light.
thats why i am a little bit affraid that it will be to throwy for me.......

is it possible that you give here an Lux value at 1meter from this light to know where its placed?

and exept who likes throwy or floody more, a light made in the year 2019/2020 what delivers with a 3000mah battery 600 lumen for 1 hour is not a great performer, thats a convoy S2 does now for 8 Years......a 10 $ light.
it the SST-20 version the convoy cost same 10$ and makes for example 20000 lux throw.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> Black = Hangover output
> View attachment 1298485
> 
> 
> ...


Mole,
What is the reference light in your graph? That light seems stable at 1000 lumens for over 100+ min and then it steps down to the outbound territory.

Thanks


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Could someone please provide a link to a good “power bank”? Looks like I’m gonna need to one to use the hangover, and I know nothing of them. Thanks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Anyone have a link to a weather proof DC to USB solution?
Either a USB C battery pack or converter. 

I have a question out to fma_battery on ebay to see if they can do a pack w/a USB C connector.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

MRMOLE said:


> I still would have thought once the powerbank was spent the light would react similar to how it did with only the internal battery. Once the powerbank was fully spent the battery level lights on the lighthead started flashing as if charging till the light shut itself down.
> 
> Included usb cable is 39" long so would easily run to my hydration pack. I just had the powerbank sitting next to the light since this was a indoor test. Powerbank only weighs 120 grams so could be strapped to the back of the helmet. They have smaller "lipstick" powerbanks that would probably still extend runtime out to 2 hrs for a lighter option.
> 
> ...


Mole, according to their product page it outputs 5V up to 2A: https://magicshine.us/product/mj-6086-usb-adapter/

-Garry


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Mole, according to their product page it outputs 5V up to 2A: https://magicshine.us/product/mj-6086-usb-adapter/
> 
> -Garry


How would that work w/the light then? I assume opitmally you would want to stay closer to 7.4 volts


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Yikes, this stuff blew up overnight didn't it?

About the runtime claims, it was indeed the original goal to try and hit 2 hours of strong consistent runtime, some early calculations by outside reps for Lumileds and a few others suggested we could get close. Then we started to think about how to maximize perceived output and whether we should have a ramp down or steps. We decided on steps since that could provide an indicator of the amount of runtime left for someone using the light as intended (on the helmet) and wouldn't be able to see the status lights.

Pretty clear now that we need to change that profile to a ramp-like everyone else in the industry does. Keep in mind that this still does meet the FL1 standard for runtime. Which says 10% of the original lumen output. Which by that metric we actually push out to around 2:15 hours, but won't claim that. Runtime is another one of those things that surely most all you know that every brand exaggerates massively.

I feel like the comparison to other "similar lumen" lights isn't fair either, we have created a beam pattern that throws further than 1000+ lumen lights, yet illuminates the field of view like a flood light. Our target was to beat the Lumina 1200 Boost and the Urban FC 1000 for both runtime, weight, percived brightness, and charge time. We smashed all those goals thoroughly. For those that are entirely focused on lumen numbers, then clearly aren't actually riding with the lights and using them as intended. As mentioned dozens of times, we literally don't care about the lumen numbers, and care more about actual light performance in use. So far everyone has said the beam pattern is amazing, especially for the size and form factor.

When comparing runtime to peak lux, for something like the 1200 boost, it's pretty clear that you won't find another light anything close to it. This chart compares the brightness (peak lux) of the newest NR 1200 Boost with the Hangover.









Shows how the engineered beam pattern does more with less, which was the goal from the start.

If you want us to follow the same profiles as the major players we can, and just do a straight ramp down to near zero. I don't know why you guys aren't calling our NR, L&M, or any Chinese light as having exaggerated runtimes and "severely disapointing" when we are providing a more powerful beam pattern that lasts significantly longer, while still meeting the same runtime standards they set and advertise.

If you want a refund, let me know and I'll gladly refund you before it ships out. But I will want to know where you can find a light that can beat it. We hit nearly every goal we set out to do, and encourage people to go on real rides with it in the woods and then compare it to existing lights. We didn't design this to beat tests on photometric equipment, we designed it to be the best helmet light for MTB'ing. If others find that it doesn't fit their needs for other types of riding then there are other lights out there. We don't design these lights for a general catch-all.

The goals here was to create the lightest, low profile, strong beam pattern, fast charging, and longest-lasting light we could. I'm quite proud of what we made.

For the powerbank question: The light is designed to run off a powerbank which is constantly trying to send 4.2V to the battery to charge it, so the internal battery capacity is staying nice and high until the powerbank starts to drop so that you can maintain maximum output for as long as possible. The step-down is based on when the internal battery hits certain voltage limits to prevent it drooping too low and to maximize runtime. So if you want to get max output for as long as possible, the external battery gives you that option. *Mind you this is NOT even an option on any other competitor's lights currently.* That is why we also designed that factor in.

We know some people's rides are longer than others, and that's why we made the supplied USB cable so long and with the 90* right angle so that it can mount on the helmet and still run an external powerbank if needed. Still end up with a 100g lighthead on your helmet that can be used wirelessly or with a wire, whatever you desire.

For reference.... the Gloworm X2, has an 80g lighthead, and a 2 cell battery pack, annnnnd only 1.5 hours of runtime. It was mentioned that the peak lux was similar to the X2 and Hangover. So for the Hangover + a powerbank of your choice, gets you a similarly powerful headlamp, that'll last significantly longer, for way cheaper.

Anyways. We never set out to cheat people or flat out lie about things. I'm sure some people will somehow think that or whatever, but I'm literally just a dude working out of a small rented warehouse space trying to build the best lights we can. Not importing a bunch of stuff and slapping my name on it. We are making changes to the light based on feedback here that will roll into the new updates. If you want to see a different ramp curve then let me know.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Outbound said:


> Yikes, this stuff blew up overnight didn't it?
> 
> About the runtime claims, it was indeed the original goal to try and hit 2 hours of strong consistent runtime, some early calculations by outside reps for Lumileds and a few others suggested we could get close. Then we started to think about how to maximize perceived output and whether we should have a ramp down or steps. We decided on steps since that could provide an indicator of the amount of runtime left for someone using the light as intended (on the helmet) and wouldn't be able to see the status lights.
> 
> ...


I'm not a technical lighting guy. I just want more runtime. I trust that the light will be great, and work beautifully with my trail edition on the bars. Can you link me to a good power bank?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

As you mention the beam pattern: did I miss any beamshots comparing the hangover to the lumina? Would be interesting.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Outbound said:


> ....... I don't know why you guys aren't calling our NR, L&M, or any Chinese light as having exaggerated runtimes and "severely disapointing" .....


Some here do. Even in this thread. In post 16 note what I say about exaggerated specs " Deceptive at best, IMO, dishonest".

I don't think you fall into that crowd though. I do think that the Hangover has been in the works long enough that some updates/adjustments to the initial design specs could have been provided. A post of the output graph based on near production grade components could have helped greatly with avoiding the backlash you are now getting.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

cue003 said:


> Mole,
> What is the reference light in your graph? That light seems stable at 1000 lumens for over 100+ min and then it steps down to the outbound territory.
> 
> Thanks


Fenix BC30R


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Yikes, this stuff blew up overnight didn't it?
> 
> About the runtime claims, it was indeed the original goal to try and hit 2 hours of strong consistent runtime, some early calculations by outside reps for Lumileds and a few others suggested we could get close. Then we started to think about how to maximize perceived output and whether we should have a ramp down or steps. We decided on steps since that could provide an indicator of the amount of runtime left for someone using the light as intended (on the helmet) and wouldn't be able to see the status lights.
> 
> ...


Thanks for responding Matt. I dont think you need to change to follow the same profile as the major players. Keep the light as is for step down vs ramp down. But I would suggest that you update your marketing material to support the light runtime performance.

I bought from you because you were trying to set yourself apart from all the others and you specifically called out the ANSI standards and the lumen reading as being not the best approaches to judge a light. I agree with that but with your transparency of those aspects should have also came transparency of the finalized product of where the goals were when started to what was the final production information for runtime etc.

I would assume that many bought because they wanted to ditch the cord and made decisions based on beam pattern and advertised runtime. You met one of the two claimed goals but we find out after receiving the product. So of course that leaves a sour taste in some folks mouth.

Just update your website and post an appropriate runtime graph vs the design criteria test subjects. The beam pattern will for sure speak for itself with this thread and through your other lights.

You asked why don't we call out L&M or NR and others for their runtime exaggerations? It is because everyone FULLY EXPECTS that from them. At least most everyone here does. You represented yourself to be different and hence the surprised reactions that are showing up in this thread so far.

Thanks for reading.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> Some here do. Even in this thread. In post 16 note what I say about exaggerated specs " Deceptive at best, IMO, dishonest".
> 
> I don't think you fall into that crowd though. I do think that the Hangover has been in the works long enough that some updates/adjustments to the initial design specs could have been provided. A post of the output graph based on near production grade components could have helped greatly with avoiding the backlash you are now getting.


Van biker, You said it better and shorter than I did. Haha.

Happy Holidays folks


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Slipway said:


> As you mention the beam pattern: did I miss any beamshots comparing the hangover to the lumina? Would be interesting.


This is one with the 1100 Boost.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Same as has been said before:










That is your current website as of 12/14.

If this had been updated prior to shipping you could have avoided the current state of this thread.

It also bugs me that you avoided this question (runtime) when the math was pointed out.

I think the light will still work quite well for me as most of my night rides are in the 60-90 min range. But it is quite disappointing that I now need to carry a battery in case I need it.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

> I think the light will still work quite well for me as most of my night rides are in the 60-90 min range. But it is quite disappointing that I now need to carry a battery in case I need it.


This thing is still going to provide 2+ hours of usable light. It still provides brighter and longer lasting light than any other single cell battery on the market. You would absolutely be needing to carry an extra light if using any other brand light out there.

Seems a lot of the comparisons here are to other double cell batteries like the Taz or the Fenix that literally weigh twice as much and can't be used on the helmet comfortably because of the size and weight.

Will we come out with a double cell version in the future? Probably. But for now this light was aimed squarely at other single cell lights like the Lumina, Urban, Volt, etc. so would suggest comparing directly to those.

Sorry if I'm being testy.


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## 6feet10 (Aug 10, 2017)

I ordered the hangover and I'm also a bit dissapointed. Normally I don't buy stuff that has not been released yet. I followed the focal series releases and the positive communication here and everything seemed believable. I still believe that the lenses and light throw will be good but battery wise i really expected 2 hours of full throttle. I just bought a sofirn SD05 because of its steady output in medium. It is a cheap light, good value, well constructed and has a really efficient driver. only the optical part is not perfect for my trail use (too narrow spot). It runs 2 hours with 18650 with 950lumens. I'm no expert but I really believed in the claimed 2 hours. I woldd understand if it lasts 15 minutes less, but half of it?


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

6feet10 said:


> I ordered the hangover and I'm also a bit dissapointed. Normally I don't buy stuff that has not been released yet. I followed the focal series releases and the positive communication here and everything seemed believable. I still believe that the lenses and light throw will be good but battery wise i really expected 2 hours of full throttle. I just bought a sofirn SD05 because of its steady output in medium. It is a cheap light, good value, well constructed and has a really efficient driver. only the optical part is not perfect for my trail use (too narrow spot). It runs 2 hours with 18650 with 950lumens. I'm no expert but I really believed in the claimed 2 hours. I woldd understand if it lasts 15 minutes less, but half of it?


Wait, so we couldn't pull off two hours straight on around 800-850 lumens with the highest grade 18650 battery out there, but you think an Aliexpress "950" lumen light will do 2 hours straight? I guarantee that thing is actually doing like 200 lumens to do that long, along with that tiny spot.

PM me your name and order number and I'll go ahead and refund you in full if you are disappointed already without having even used the light yet.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

So, this is my first bike light. I purchased one to see how it would work, prior to committing to a second light for my son, and possibly purchasing two trail series for the bars. I will be the forum guinea pig for this charger:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079Z4RHZZ/ref=vp_c_AXOMVQTX5IUR?ie=UTF8&m=A142BGUZC6UH73#
I am in the northeast US, so prolonged high power probably is not as crucial as out in the open desert, but if I can have it, why not.
I just received the unit today and like the construction very much. I doubt my run time, once charged, will differ appreciably from others' , but I will test it out in our woods tomorrow evening.
If any of the disgruntled forumites wishes to unload theirs at the preorder price, let me know. If I like what I see tomorrow, I will want a second light for my kid.
Does the runtime marketing bother me? A little. For now, I will allow Matt some slack (a one person business is daunting, I'm certain)and attempt to deal with run time with the aforementioned power pack. I almost always wear a pack when riding.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Outbound said:


> This thing is still going to provide 2+ hours of usable light. It still provides brighter and longer lasting light than any other single cell battery on the market. You would absolutely be needing to carry an extra light if using any other brand light out there.
> 
> Seems a lot of the comparisons here are to other double cell batteries like the Taz or the Fenix that literally weigh twice as much and can't be used on the helmet comfortably because of the size and weight.
> 
> ...


That's the thing though, I might have waited for a 2 cell version or looked at a different light if this said 2 hrs total runtime starting on high and stepping down. I have a good headlamp with an external battery already.

That said I'm certainly going to run it and see if it suits my needs and it sounds like it will.

I don't doubt this will be a very high quality light.


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

Outbound said:


> This is one with the 1100 Boost.
> 
> View attachment 1298539


Thank you very much. Regarding runtime: I asked the question 4 weeks ago #162 and never got an answer. So the dissapointment shouldn't be too surprising for OL.


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## pdxkid (Sep 22, 2016)

Well, I'm torn. I ordered a light in early november and hoped to have it by now, based on Outbound's estimate. They returned my initial email right after the order but have since gone silent. Bummer to hear about run times, that was certainly a factor in my decision. 

I just need to know if I'll get a notification and tracking number when the light ships. Outbound won't answer that question. I live in SLC, UT. and we have the distinct honor of 2nd highest in the nation porch package thefts. I stupidly had the light shipped to my home instead of work.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

pdxkid said:


> Well, I'm torn. I ordered a light in early november and hoped to have it by now, based on Outbound's estimate. They returned my initial email right after the order but have since gone silent. Bummer to hear about run times, that was certainly a factor in my decision.
> 
> I just need to know if I'll get a notification and tracking number when the light ships. Outbound won't answer that question. I live in SLC, UT. and we have the distinct honor of 2nd highest in the nation porch package thefts. I stupidly had the light shipped to my home instead of work.


You will get an email with tracking for USPS.

Mine just arrived. It's on the charger now.

Like everyone else has said. 1st impression is solid and high quality construction.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

I went out for a ride this evening with the Hangover. The outdoor temperature was 29F and my trails had about a half inch to an inch of snow on them over ice. The light was bright, and was very natural to my eyes in so far as the beam pattern and throw is concerned. I was not traveling at more than 15 mph given the slick conditions, but it seemed the throw of the light was around 30-40 yards ahead at times. I will have to measure some points on my trail to get an exact distance. I was more interested in the duration of the battery life, being my first night ride and right behind my house. The light behaved exactly like this:
https://forums.mtbr.com/attachments...18_2586075531511218_2876494195479019520_n.png
-it did exactly what Matt's graph shows to the point where I turned it off at 1:10 to eat. I had 25% battery left, and medium power still had great throw. I only slightly noticed the intensity change while I was riding when it stepped down.
Prior to riding I charged the light to full, which took 4 min. as I had charged it up last evening. Next test will be hooking up the charge pack I ordered and seeing how it behaves then. Should arrive Tuesday.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

My step down time is similar to MRMOLE’s, too. Battery life, ditto, at least for the 70 min. I ran it for. I will say, that at 25% life on medium, it still threw light out there for a long way, as it illuminated reflectors on my neighbor’s vehicles that were a couple hundred feet away at a minimum. The light is quality, Matt just needs to market things more professionally in my mind, not the least of which would be the status light meaning chart. I find the last line more annoying than the disputed runtime claims, personally. Too ‘bro and definitely not “light nerd” worthy.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Stihlgoin said:


> I went out for a ride this evening with the Hangover.
> Prior to riding I charged the light to full, which took 4 min. as I had charged it up last evening. Next test will be hooking up the charge pack I ordered and seeing how it behaves then. Should arrive Tuesday.


Good to see some trail ride reports, hopefully more will start to pop up with people getting their lights. Great to hear your trying out the remote battery option. I had good results using a cheap Ravpower 5000 I got on Amazon but am sure there are better options out there so please let us know what your using and how it worked. Our battery thread or maybe the BLF might be good sources for info. on powerbanks too.

:thumbsup:Cool point, my Hangovers actually started paying for themselves. The manager of one of the local bike shops was very interested in the Hangover and offered to loan me a Lumina 1800 to test in exchange for allowing him to use one of my Hangovers for while to try it out. I'd been wanting to test that light but my eyes don't get along well with the very cool tint NR is now using and it's kind of expensive to just do output testing and then have it retire to my old test light box. Unexpected advantage to owning a Hangover! 
Mole


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

is there a recommended battery charging pack?

i ordered mine on 10/25, hopefully i get it soon so i can get out and ride!


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

I went for a ride and must say the hangover was pretty impressive for its size. It out out about the same output as my old Serfas True 750 (Now discontinued) but the Hangover had a little more punch and a better beam pattern. The Serfas beam lit up the canopy of trees better than the Hangover. The led color temp were close to each other. I also had with me my L&M Taz 1200 ($99). The Taz 1200 was without question much brighter and whiter in the immediate to mid area but with such a diffused beam didn’t have the punch of the Hangover. I do mid the get to ride for too long since the bugs where attacking the light out at the park and therefore were all in my face too. Lol. 

Matt did great on the beam pattern and construction is solid. However, when stopped I could hear the high pitched hum and that is bothersome to me. Hopefully a fix will be available soon that will not lessen the efficiency of the light. I am ready to send both my Hangovers in for this fix ASAP. 

Once I got back I broke out the kitchen scale to do some weights. 
Hangover #1 (no mount) - 107.2g
Hangover #2 (no mount) - 106g
Included mount for both Hangovers - 28.3g each

Serfas True 750 (no mount) - 199.1g
Serfas True 750 (with handlebar mount) - 237.1g

L&M Taz 1200 (with handlebar mount) - 215.5g

According to the printout that is included in the Hangover Box if the light blinks rapidly then it is fast charging. I plug it into my MacBook wall charger and it worked fine and blinked fast. I plugged it into my Apple 10W charger and it also blinked fast (which I wasn’t expecting). But when I plug it into my brand new Anker 10000PD USB-C it then blinked slower and did not appear to be fast charging yet the Anker is capable of delivering 18W through the USB-C port. I will have to investigate this further and explore different cable usage or even plug into the USB-A port and see if I get a different result. 

One thing to note is that the charge port rubber cover does actually return to the closed state if you leave it long enough. 

I had what i thought is pretty cool idea for a side capability if the light could be programmed to run. Certain way output wise when there is no external battery and maybe double output when it detect an external battery connect for high. And medium becomes the non battery connected high with extended runtime.

More rides to come to test and use further. The hum I got to fixed though.


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

Outbound said:


> This thing is still going to provide 2+ hours of usable light. It still provides brighter and longer lasting light than any other single cell battery on the market.


Thats pure marketingtalk, hot air........
I asked you befor some wekks ago check out the top brands what have for many years high reputations on the market befor you call your light the best.

And i repeat myself again for you, i use now ~7 Years Zerbalights forthat reason coz its one of the Top players.

Your product=600 Lumen for 1 Hour in real world at 100 gramms.
My Zebra= at 600 Lumens set 2,3 Hours"measured!!" runtime with 90 gramms.

a Zebra outperforms your light over 2 times at more compact size and weight!!!

your light is no challenger for the top brands, sorry that i must repeat myself.

thats why i was wondering many weeks ago how you came on the idea your light is a challenger for one of them.

how do you think people will fell if you promised them for over 100$ a light that delivers *850 lumen for 2 Hours* and now the get a 600 lumen 1 hour light" convoy S2 prformance 10$"?


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

lostplaces said:


> Thats pure marketingtalk, hot air........
> I asked you befor some wekks ago check out the top brands what have for many years high reputations on the market befor you call your light the best.
> ...
> your light is no challenger for the top brands, sorry that i must repeat myself.


Why do you keep comparing flashlights to bicycle helmet lights? You should consider that we are paying for more than just specsheet bragging rights. I'm not going to awkwardly strap a flashlight to my helmet with a bright but compromised beam just for a longer runtime of worse light on the trail.

I own some very nice flashlights, I've never considered using them as bikelights.

You said your piece, repeatedly, but you have yet to offer anything relevant to putting an effective, well designed and integrated light on my helmet.


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

Maybe it is has been covered, but what is the runtime on Medium?


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

Outbound said:


> Wait, so we couldn't pull off two hours straight on around 800-850 lumens with the highest grade 18650 battery out there


So you knew you couldn't pull it off, but you still claimed a 2h run time in High? In High, not "2h of usable light" - whatever that means. What is usable for you, may not be usable for 50% of the people out there. 
A lot of people made their choice based solely on the claimed run time. In High. Yeah, it charges fast and has a great punchy beam for it's output, yeah it can run on power banks, but the runtime is not even close to what was promised and that's a bummer.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Trond said:


> Maybe it is has been covered, but what is the runtime on Medium?


The instruction card that ships with the Hangover lists the modes as: 1.9 hours for High, 2.8 for Medium, 9 for Low and 5 for Daytime Flash, approximate times. It does not address stepdowns or output levels. QuickCharge 3.0 is listed as the fast charging standard, and there is a feature that flashes the light for 10 seconds to warn of impending low battery shutdown.


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

Thanks Velo


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Trond said:


> Maybe it is has been covered, but what is the runtime on Medium?


I should be able to get to that in the next couple of days (maybe tonight). 
Mole


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> I should be able to get to that in the next couple of days (maybe tonight).
> Mole


wonderful. Thanks.

For me it could double as a light for when I go xc-skiing, and medium would be more enough light.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Zayphod said:


> So you knew you couldn't pull it off, but you still claimed a 2h run time in High? In High, not "2h of usable light" - whatever that means. What is usable for you, may not be usable for 50% of the people out there.
> A lot of people made their choice based solely on the claimed run time. In High. Yeah, it charges fast and has a great punchy beam for it's output, yeah it can run on power banks, but the runtime is not even close to what was promised and that's a bummer.


We worked as hard as we could even the week leading up to Hangover production playing with cutoff voltage, ramps, figuring out profiles to maximize the usable runtime as much as we could. We weren't even sure what the exact runtime was going to be until we started pushing the software to the freshly built PCB's that went into the new lights a week later.

Our goal was always 2 hours of runtime as that is typically how long Tom does his rides out in the desert. As mentioned before seems no one raises a stink when NR or L&M say 1.5 hours of runtime and their stuff lasts for 30 minutes at 60% of the claimed 1200 output. And all the cheap lights severely ramp down as well because the lightheads are so tiny it thermally overheats in seconds.

It's making me consider doing an interesting experiment. Clearly, people want the longest runtime (duh), but also a lot of people are blind to the fact that lights do degrade their beam pattern over time as a battery-saving measure, and as we know our eyes adapt to the darkness and available light, so my experiment is to figure out what's noticeable and what's not. Essentially load up lights with some different software with different light ramps at different speeds and give users random lights and ask them to mark when they can clearly feel a different light output.

Will be good data to collect and fine tune from there. Right now we've just worked off what we felt was personally best. Makes me wonder if we didn't have the hard steps if anyone would have even noticed or said anything since that would have followed a similar pattern to previous lights.

Anyways, as stated a few times before. If anyone wants their money back and thinks it's a crappy light because it can still produce more actual usable output (NOT straight up lumens for christ sake, we've been over this) for longer than any other light on the market, even in the medium and low modes, then feel free to email me your order number and I'll refund you before it ships, or send you an RMA to have it sent back and refunded.

Here's a picture that a customer sent of the Trail + Hangover combo. Can tell how this was designed to pair together wonderfully. Got the wide even illumination of the trail, and then the punch of Hangover pushing deep down the trail, but no noticeable hotspot and blends perfectly in with the existing light field. In fact, can't even really tell where Hangover starts and Trail ends.









Can check out our Instagram stories for the many posts that customers make that I re-post showing their lights being used. Going to be updating the marketing materials, new pics, beam pattern comparisons, lux vs time comparisons etc. for other lights here soon. Only about 350 orders away from finally having the backlog of 1,400 orders burned down.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Trond said:


> wonderful. Thanks.
> 
> For me it could double as a light for when I go xc-skiing, and medium would be more enough light.


That's my plan, too.


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

Outbound said:


> We worked as hard as we could even the week leading up to Hangover production playing with cutoff voltage, ramps, figuring out profiles to maximize the usable runtime as much as we could. We weren't even sure what the exact runtime was going to be until we started pushing the software to the freshly built PCB's that went into the new lights a week later.
> 
> Our goal was always 2 hours of runtime as that is typically how long Tom does his rides out in the desert. As mentioned before seems no one raises a stink when NR or L&M say 1.5 hours of runtime and their stuff lasts for 30 minutes at 60% of the claimed 1200 output. And all the cheap lights severely ramp down as well because the lightheads are so tiny it thermally overheats in seconds.
> 
> ...


Fair enough.

I actually really dig the idea behind the Adaptive mode on the Focal series and I get your point regarding this aspect on the Hangover. So technically there is room for improvement just by tinkering with the firmware.

And while we're on that topic - will the users eventually be able to install the updated firmware on their own or they'll have to send the unit back to you? Because the latter will be a bummer for orders oversea.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Outbound said:


> Wait, so we couldn't pull off two hours straight on around 800-850 lumens with the highest grade 18650 battery out there, but you think an Aliexpress "950" lumen light will do 2 hours straight? I guarantee that thing is actually doing like 200 lumens to do that long, along with that tiny spot.


This attitude right here irritates me. You've lost my respect. You have no idea what that SD05 is!  The SD05 is an XHP50.2 light running on a 21700 cell yielding a well regulated 1000+ lumens with a wide beam for nearly 2.5 hours. Being an XHP50.2 light it does NOT have a tiny spot. Sofirn (manufacturer of the SD05) is very well respected over on Budget Light Forum and producing many custom lights for BLF for amazing costs! The SD05 without any group buys or coupon codes is going for $22.99 right now. Is it a perfect light, no. Does it have a comparable beam pattern, no. (I would never recommend this light for helmet use.) I'm not promoting the SD05 as the better alternative to your Hangover; I'm just tired of your attitude lumping all Chinese lights into the "junk pile" and refusing to acknowledge that there are actually some good lights with fantastic features (usually because of the awesome drivers and driver firmware developed from BLF) coming from China.



Outbound said:


> As mentioned before seems no one raises a stink when NR or L&M say 1.5 hours of runtime and their stuff lasts for 30 minutes at 60% of the claimed 1200 output. And all the cheap lights severely ramp down as well because the lightheads are so tiny it thermally overheats in seconds.


You almost never see those Nite Rider self-contained single cell lights recommended here on this forum - we already know they're pretty crappy with diminishing outputs (which tend to drop hard from the start), short runtimes, and too spotty beams.



Outbound said:


> And all the cheap lights severely ramp down as well because the lightheads are so tiny it thermally overheats in seconds.


Not true! Not *ALL* "cheap lights". My Nitefighter/Revtronic BT21 has never overheated, provides a wonderful output and beam pattern, and I only paid $22.19 for it (light head alone). It's one of those "diamonds in the rough" that many of us on this forum are looking for to recommend to others. THIS, in my opinion, is the big need for the overall night-riding mountain biking community - lights that punch way above their weight class for bargain prices.

I'd venture to say your attitude is irritating others as well and not helping your business. Please drop the "We're the best" / "We produce the best lights" / "All other lights are junk" attitude!

-Garry


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Outbound said:


> ...Our goal was always 2 hours of runtime as that is typically how long Tom does his rides out in the desert. As mentioned before seems no one raises a stink when NR or L&M say 1.5 hours of runtime and their stuff lasts for 30 minutes at 60% of the claimed 1200 output. And all the cheap lights severely ramp down as well because the lightheads are so tiny it thermally overheats in seconds.
> -
> ...Makes me wonder if we didn't have the hard steps if anyone would have even noticed or said anything since that would have followed a similar pattern to previous lights.
> -


I think most people expected that two hours of runtime on high wouldn't include a significant amount of that to be in medium and low after noticeable stepdowns. In hindsight I expect the disappointed ones of us with more experience playing with this stuff realize we fell into some wishful thinking, but we were lead down that path even if inadvertently. Using the existing competition as an excuse doesn't help. I don't think a gradual rampdown instead of the hard steps would have made much difference, the expectations vs. reality were too far apart. But I don't want to make too big a deal of it, I am still happy with the quality of the light and I will still get good use from it. Hopefully it will be adequate for me as a trail use helmet light paired with my OL Trail. With judicious use of the modes it may have plenty of runtime and running an external pack is a useful option. I hope to get in a good trail night ride on Friday and that will be the real test for me. I have always been sceptical of standalone lights so I understood that there would be some compromises but your approach to design was enough to sway me.

I know that running a small business is difficult and I expect even more so with the obvious amount of effort you are putting into all phases of your product. I'm fine with considering these optimistic expectations to be a miscommunication and learning experience for everybody but the defensiveness is offputting. The market needs innovation and passion driving new products, and that same motivation can cloud perceptions. People have spent their money site unseen based on past performance and your openness throughout the Focal and Hangover projects. I look forward to your future projects and more of the same, but there will be a greater expectation of clarity in performance goals and expectations.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Well put, Velodonata. 

Most of my night rides are 1-2 hours, starting with long climbs. I usually climb with low/no light depending on ambient lighting. I’m not too worried about the runtime. Group rides often have a top-of-the-last-downhill beer break, and I could easily top off the light during that pause if necessary. I’m more concerned about the hum and whether I’ll notice it or not.

Edit to add: got mine today. Build quality is excellent, as expected.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

evasive said:


> Well put, Velodonata.
> 
> Most of my night rides are 1-2 hours, starting with long climbs. I usually climb with low/no light depending on ambient lighting. I'm not too worried about the runtime. Group rides often have a top-of-the-last-downhill beer break, and I could easily top off the light during that pause if necessary. I'm more concerned about the hum and whether I'll notice it or not.


That's roughly how I am hoping the use profile works out, it could largely mitigate runtime concerns. That buzz is funny, I didn't even notice it until I saw someone mention it here, and then I was surprised by how loud it was. But I don't expect it to be a problem while riding, it won't take much ambient noise to mask it.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

New round of shipment notifications just went out. Mine are on the way


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

garrybunk said:


> .......Not true! Not *ALL* "cheap lights". My Nitefighter/Revtronic BT21 has never overheated, provides a wonderful output and beam pattern, and I only paid $22.19 for it (light head alone). It's one of those "diamonds in the rough" that many of us on this forum are looking for to recommend to others. THIS, in my opinion, is the big need for the overall night-riding mountain biking community - lights that punch way above their weight class for bargain prices........


You did forget to mention that the BT21 while starting out as a promising light, pretty quickly went to crap with quality issues. Also it was not sustainable at the price they were selling at. They closed shop as Nitefighter, reappeared as Revtronic and dropped the BT21 from their product line. Now it seems that maybe Revtronic no longer exists. A quick google for their other light, the BT40S shows discontinued.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

I didn’t notice the hum much, even inside. I have bat-like hearing, or so I thought 😏 Minus the sonar. When it comes down to it, I just rode my bike and didn’t give the light a second thought until I stopped to check the battery indicator. It was not a distraction, which is what most would want. Very natural feeling. If I go on a longer ride, I will wear a pack anyhow, and my charge pack will be wired up. -provided it plays nicely with the light. I just humbly ask that the F#[email protected]*d gets replaced on the QR card, other than by my black Sharpie. - Too ‘bro for me, too everything for my 12yo to read, but perhaps I am an outlier. Let’s see how Outbound’s product development goes from here on out now that Pinkbike gave Matt some breakthrough press. I will most likely end up with the Trail Series plus another of these for my son based on the light/beam quality alone.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> My Nitefighter/Revtronic BT21 has never overheated, provides a wonderful output and beam pattern, and I only paid $22.19 for it (light head alone). It's one of those "diamonds in the rough" that many of us on this forum are looking for to recommend to others. THIS, in my opinion, is the big need for the overall night-riding mountain biking community - lights that punch way above their weight class for bargain prices.
> 
> -Garry


The BT21 w/gloworm spot optics is my current head lamp, so that will be my comparison. I expect to do my next night ride tomorrow but I'll compare them tonight just looking down my street.

I also ordered a FMA 2S1P 18650 pack and a DC to female USB cord, so I'll have that to strap to my helmet for longer rides or if I find the medium mode insufficient.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Vancbiker said:


> You did forget to mention that the BT21 while starting out as a promising light, pretty quickly went to crap with quality issues. Also it was not sustainable at the price they were selling at. They closed shop as Nitefighter, reappeared as Revtronic and dropped the BT21 from their product line. Now it seems that maybe Revtronic no longer exists. A quick google for their other light, the BT40S shows discontinued.


I was just trying to keep some somewhat off-topic discussion away. That's the biggest difference I see with the "cheap Chinese" options vs. a company like Outbound - a company that's nearly "fly by night" versus a "reputable manufacturer". I even tried to encourage Andy Wong (owner of Nitefighter/Revtronic) that he could drastically increase his prices and still have great sales! I told him that when the BT21 first disappeared and I was encouraging him to bring it back.

Unfortunately there isn't much incentive for the budget Chinese light manufacturers to make a "good" light based on our community's desires (so we are told). It's disappointing (to me at least) that BLF can generate $60k in sales during a group buy on a new custom flashlight, but those manufacturer's apparently don't even want to consider doing a bike specific light. So now the "good budget lights" are like a needle in the haystack. I'm just glad I grabbed what I could while they were available!

-Garry


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

I am curious to hear how well the USB connection from the external power bank option to the light head stays connected during off road riding. 

****


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> You did forget to mention that the BT21 while starting out as a promising light, pretty quickly went to crap with quality issues. Also it was not sustainable at the price they were selling at. They closed shop as Nitefighter, reappeared as Revtronic and dropped the BT21 from their product line. Now it seems that maybe Revtronic no longer exists. A quick google for their other light, the BT40S shows discontinued.


Besides which the Nitefighter BT21 is not a self contained lamp, and takes at least two 18650 batteries to operate. So not a fair comparison to the Hangover.

OTOH If comparing any cheapo Chinese lamp, including those that are powered by separate battery packs, the KD BL2S comes quickly to mind. Listing under $16 (free shipping) with it's TIR lenses and XM L2 U3 binning, the 4000K model has both excellent color and a punchy flood. I pair mine as a head lamp with the KDLITKER BL70S 4000K on the bars (modded with a diffusing filter) and get a similar light carpet as Matt posted above combining the OB Trail with the new Hangover. But of course I'm still hampered by the external battery packs so admit mine is not a totally fair comparison either.

Haven't ordered any OB lamps yet because the only feature that would compel me to do so would be wireless remote, which at this point is still sadly lacking. Don't understand why because the technology is currently available and efficient both in size and energy consumption.

Though actually my dream head lamp would incorporate a seeing eye/light meter plus accelerometer and be programmable to put out any % of potential lumens desired at various speeds when aimed at an area outside of that lit by a bar lamp, and ramp down accordingly when intersecting the latter's field of illumination as the rider's gaze lowers/centers. This would yield the ultimate in energy efficiency and hands-off convenience for all styles of night riding.


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

garrybunk said:


> This attitude right here irritates me. You've lost my respect. You have no idea what that SD05 is!  The SD05 is an XHP50.2 light running on a 21700 cell yielding a well regulated 1000+ lumens with a wide beam for nearly 2.5 hours. Being an XHP50.2 light it does NOT have a tiny spot. Sofirn (manufacturer of the SD05) is very well respected over on Budget Light Forum and producing many custom lights for BLF for amazing costs! The SD05 without any group buys or coupon codes is going for $22.99 right now. Is it a perfect light, no. Does it have a comparable beam pattern, no. (I would never recommend this light for helmet use.) I'm not promoting the SD05 as the better alternative to your Hangover; I'm just tired of your attitude lumping all Chinese lights into the "junk pile" and refusing to acknowledge that there are actually some good lights with fantastic features (usually because of the awesome drivers and driver firmware developed from BLF) coming from China.
> 
> You almost never see those Nite Rider self-contained single cell lights recommended here on this forum - we already know they're pretty crappy with diminishing outputs (which tend to drop hard from the start), short runtimes, and too spotty beams.
> 
> ...


I abslutely second that.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Outbound said:


> For the powerbank question: The light is designed to run off a powerbank which is constantly trying to send 4.2V to the battery to charge it, so the internal battery capacity is staying nice and high until the powerbank starts to drop so that you can maintain maximum output for as long as possible. The step-down is based on when the internal battery hits certain voltage limits to prevent it drooping too low and to maximize runtime. So if you want to get max output for as long as possible, the external battery gives you that option. *Mind you this is NOT even an option on any other competitor's lights currently.* That is why we also designed that factor in.


Am I interpreting this correctly to mean, when you know you're going on a ride that will need longer run time on high than the internal battery can provide, it is best practice to connect your external battery up at the beginning of the ride when the light is fully charged rather than stopping to hook it up after you notice the light step down?


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

I’m personally quite skeptical of that claim highlighted above. Admit I’m not too familiar with self contained lights as a whole, and despite the vendor’s assurance my Ituo Wiz 20 could not run while charging. However, ALL my cheapo blinkies can run off either USB wall chargers or powerbanks, as do every other USB device I know of currently on the market such as cell phones and tablets, keyboards etc. So even if no competitor’s self contained lamps support this feature right now it does not seem like such a great hurdle to overcome.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

I would really like to see beamshots on trail side by side with other budget chineese light (Yinding, Nitecore bt21, KD2...)
with manual camera mtbr settings.


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

Outbound said:


> For the powerbank question: The light is designed to run off a powerbank which is ....... So if you want to get max output for as long as possible, the external battery gives you that option. *Mind you this is NOT even an option on any other competitor's lights currently.* That is why we also designed that factor in.


To bring in here to some clear.

1. i own by myself ~400 lights."dont ask why!"
~25 off them, near all off my "helmet lights" of them have USB conectors and have *pass through funktions*= charge + run .
~100 of my other with USB from my lights have all that epic feature to.......
lets say it from another side, to find this days a light on the market that not supports pass through is hard.

and your only competitor is your Niterider light, that i dont own so if ir not have paas throuth you find the only one thats not able .......:thumbsup:

2. the more important part, USB connectors have flimsy tiny contact pins , this conectors made for home office stationary usage.

if i use this connectors on a bike under permanet movement the small pins=connector will be very fast destroyed.
if i have destroyed the connector on this way after some uses on my bike, how can i then charge the light???
you will all the people resend new light what destroy there USB connectors under absuse?

if anyone is looking for a *wire based* light, there a more then enouth lights on the market with serious connenctors *that are able* to handle movement.

and last part to connect, a powerbank to whatever results in a DC-DC convert what eats ~ 20-30% of the totall amount of the powerbank cells.
who will do that if batterys/battery packs can be direct connectet with a wire to a light......

I am learning every day from you new stuff, so your light performs bad because it was designt to destroy the only one charge connector under heavy movement very fast.......:thumbsup:

your self promotions that you over all only are doing have alot of ironic in it.......


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Outbound said:


> The tabs for it are literally built into the housing itself. The Gopro helmet mount that will come with it is the typical standard mount that GoPro provides. Otherwise the housing will mount onto any mount that uses the standard action camera tabs.
> 
> Here is a picture of an early production sample prototype on Tom's bike. No silkscreen logos or anything on there yet.
> 
> ...


@Outbound (Matt), Can you find out from Tom the exact mount he used for the handlebar setup of the Hangover in the pic above? I have been trying to find something like that but have been unsuccessful. Any help will be appreciated.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Andy, Mole has already proven it'll work off the power bank when connected with its own battery being full - see his post with his runtime graph. 

-Garry


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

bhocewar said:


> I would really like to see beamshots on trail side by side with other budget chineese light (Yinding, Nitecore bt21, KD2...)
> with manual camera mtbr settings.


Where can I find the manual camera settings?


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Here's a picture that a customer sent of the Trail + Hangover combo. Can tell how this was designed to pair together wonderfully. Got the wide even illumination of the trail, and then the punch of Hangover pushing deep down the trail, but no noticeable hotspot and blends perfectly in with the existing light field. In fact, can't even really tell where Hangover starts and Trail ends.
> 
> View attachment 1298905


For the sake of comparison, here's a shot of my KDLITKER BL70s + BL2S combo.

KDLITKER BL70S Bars BL2S Head by andyXchrist, on Flickr


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Found the settings:


6 SECONDS AT F4 - WHITE BALANCE - DAYLIGHT


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Andy, Mole has already proven it'll work off the power bank when connected with its own battery being full - see his post with his runtime graph.
> 
> -Garry


If you're talking about the Hangover, my reference was to Matt's claim that none of the COMPETITORS' lights could run over USB, as highlighted in the post immediately above mine. I question that and Lost Places agrees.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

andychrist said:


> If you're talking about the Hangover, my reference was to Matt's claim that none of the COMPETITORS' lights could run over USB, as highlighted in the post immediately above mine. I question that and Lost Places agrees.


Oh, I gotcha. Thought you were doubting the Hangover would.

-Garry


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## Narrowback (Mar 26, 2017)

Got my shipping notice today. Ordered 9/25


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

mestapho said:


> Found the settings:
> 
> 6 SECONDS AT F4 - WHITE BALANCE - DAYLIGHT


Think you meant "1.6 seconds". Here is a copy of my note on MTBR camera settings:

MTBR Standard:
Exposure - 1.6s
Aperture - f/4.0
ISO 200
WB - "Daylight"

-Garry


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Well I couldn't figure out manual settings on my daughters camera so here are iPhone pics.

BT21 with Gloworm spot optics and the Hangover










For reference the first mailbox on the right with white on top is about 70 feet away.

The second mailbox with red is about 110 feet.

The white car is about 140 feet away.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

andychrist said:


> If you're talking about the Hangover, my reference was to Matt's claim that none of the COMPETITORS' lights could run over USB, as highlighted in the post immediately above mine. I question that and Lost Places agrees.


While I wouldn't consider any of the Ravemen lights or my Gloworm CX direct competitors for the Hangover they do have the charge on the fly feature.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

lostplaces said:


> 2. the more important part, USB connectors have flimsy tiny contact pins , this conectors made for home office stationary usage.
> 
> if i use this connectors on a bike under permanet movement the small pins=connector will be very fast destroyed.
> if i have destroyed the connector on this way after some uses on my bike, how can i then charge the light???
> ...


Thanks for bringing this point up. Luckily the Hangover has a nice tight and solid connection (compared to a lot of my usb lights). Still if you use a powerbank all the time your doubling the plug in cycles for every charge. I've had a light that failed from usb wear and tear before so probably a good habit to detach usb cable from the more durable battery/charger connection or maybe consider getting a short extension cable and leavin it plugged in to the light all the time and just replacing the extension if there is any connection damage.
Mole


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Well the Hangover charges over USB C, right? Doesn’t some company make swiveling magnetic connectors now for iPhones and the like? Maybe they’d work for the Hangover too. Since the port is weatherproof the adapter could be left in all the time.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

andychrist said:


> Well the Hangover charges over USB C, right? Doesn't some company make swiveling magnetic connectors now for iPhones and the like? Maybe they'd work for the Hangover too. Since the port is weatherproof the adapter could be left in all the time.


Good idea. Something like this


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

https://www.amazon.com/360°Rotating...la-736879872889&ref=&adgrpid=73225757470&th=1


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

andychrist said:


> Well the Hangover charges over USB C, right? Doesn't some company make swiveling magnetic connectors now for iPhones and the like? Maybe they'd work for the Hangover too. Since the port is weatherproof the adapter could be left in all the time.


I had ordered a couple of sets in anticipation of getting my Hangover, I've been testing them a bit. It would seal the port, save on wear and tear, make connecting and removing the cord very easy, and provide a breakaway function for crashes and snags. I have ordered another style, too. The magnetic ones I have now don't seem to supply as much current as the supplied cable. Hopefully the next ones do. The Hangover is listed as being designed for QuickCharge 3.0, the first cables were not. The cable could supply more power when I used it to charge my Chromebook, so the problem appears to be in the power negotiation between the source and device through the cable and not simply the capacity of the cable. I'll report back with any updates.

I placed a very small o-ring around the plug to enhance the seal.








It freely swivels and seems like it will stay in place while riding, the cord is light and flexible. The light will hang from the cord by the magnet.


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

andychrist said:


> Since the port is weatherproof the adapter could be left in all the time.


the only way to make ports saver agains water is to make a sealing outside the port to prefent water comes into the eletronic parts!!
te connenctor or better the pins will still have problems with corrosion!!

to let a magnetic plug in, you need to glue it in with silicone or another stuff to protect the pins to!!!
or you will destroy it faster if water start to sit between the pins.


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## big_stoke (Jun 5, 2018)

Velodonata said:


> I had ordered a couple of sets in anticipation of getting my Hangover, I've been testing them a bit. It would seal the port, save on wear and tear, make connecting and removing the cord very easy, and provide a breakaway function for crashes and snags. I have ordered another style, too. The magnetic ones I have now don't seem to supply as much current as the supplied cable. Hopefully the next ones do. The Hangover is listed as being designed for QuickCharge 3.0, the first cables were not. The cable could supply more power when I used it to charge my Chromebook, so the problem appears to be in the power negotiation between the source and device through the cable and not simply the capacity of the cable. I'll report back with any updates.
> 
> I placed a very small o-ring around the plug to enhance the seal.
> View attachment 1299061
> ...


Can you provide a link for that set up?


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

OK, Hangover received, charged, mounted, and ridden with. FYI, I have had many many lights over the years and most recently have been using a Gloworm X2 on my helmet and Magicshine MJ906 on the bars (or for a lot of riding just a Blackburn Countdown 1600 on the bars). 

Short spin around on dirt and snow. I have zero hard data to share, just first-hand impressions/thoughts. 

The Hangover is light! No wires is awesome! 

Charging via my QC charger seemed quick. I didn't time it, but plugged it in with one solid green light to start, forgot about it, came back a bit more than an hour later and it was ready.

Go Pro mount needs a flat spot, which very few of my helmets have. I have one dedicated night riding helmet that does (but I don't like the fit) and my ski helmet does. Good thing it is frickin' cold (10F) and the ski helmet is a necessity right now. 
edit: I see there are many aftermarket mounts that should work with a non-flat vented helmet. I'll have to check some out.
edit 2: And, I just realized my Gloworm X2 uses the same style mount, so the velcro helmet mount I have for it will work just fine for the Hangover...yay

Button is big, positive, and the UI is fine. I don't use flashing modes, so Hi/Med/Lo is perfect.

High has a lot of throw, certainly sufficient for my riding style. Beam shape is fine with me, but I'm fairly insensitive to this. I don't think a lot of light is wasted skyward, like some of my cheap lights.
Medium is quite sufficient. Certainly fine for most low/medium speed riding.
Low is usable basically for long fire road climbs, but that is it. I do a lot of this kind of climbing, so low will probably work out for me.

Zero data on runtime, as I just tooled around for a short bit. 

I'm looking forward to getting more riding in with the Hangover...


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

lostplaces said:


> the only way to make ports saver agains water is to make a sealing outside the port to prefent water comes into the eletronic parts!!
> te connenctor or better the pins will still have problems with corrosion!!
> 
> to let a magnetic plug in, you need to glue it in with silicone or another stuff to protect the pins to!!!
> or you will destroy it faster if water start to sit between the pins.


Lighten up, Francis. It's very easy to add some extra sealing to the port if needed, which would only be for the rare wet ride anyway. For anyone in a particularly moist environment, an o-ring or gasket would be simple, no glue required. The port is a good fit and would be easy to externally seal and if it got very wet the plug could be pulled to allow any intrusion to dry.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

big_stoke said:


> Can you provide a link for that set up?


I would prefer to hold off until I can compare it to the set I am receiving in a day or two, it could be a significantly better option.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Hangover *Hi mode w/powerbank* - *Hi mode* - *Med. mode*








Mole


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

@mephasto and @andychrist: thanks for your comparison pictures, is it just me not seeing the gamechanging of OL? I had this impression when I took some beamshot of my BT40s in combination with my ituo xp2 before where I didn't see much difference. But maybe in reality the impression by the eye is different, what's your conclusion, @mephasto?


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Slipway said:


> @mephasto and @andychrist: thanks for your comparison pictures, is it just me not seeing the gamechanging of OL? I had this impression when I took some beamshot of my BT40s in combination with my ituo xp2 before where I didn't see much difference. But maybe in reality the impression by the eye is different, what's your conclusion, @mephasto?


I'm going to wait until after a ride before I comment on how I like it. Comparing it to an external battery light isn't a fair comparison but the BT-21 is what I have for comparison.


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

Looking forward for your ride


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

mestapho said:


> the BT-21 is what I have for comparison.


What optics are you using in your BT21?
Mole


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> What optics are you using in your BT21?
> Mole


It's in the pics post but they are Gloworm spot optics


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

andychrist said:


> For the sake of comparison, here's a shot of my KDLITKER BL70s + BL2S combo.


To be fair one would need to know the power consumption of your setup vs the OL setup. Your lights throw a lot of light in the tree tops, the OL setup doesn't, so your setup probably blasts out more light to get the same result.
Whether that would be a good argument to get those OL lights is a different question, especially if you like your setup.



lostplaces said:


> To bring in here to some clear.
> 
> 1. i own by myself ~400 lights."dont ask why!"
> ~25 off them, near all off my "helmet lights" of them have USB conectors and have *pass through funktions*= charge + run .
> ...


Your repetitions grow old, your pointed out repeatedly that you use all kind of lights for comparison, OL only compares to dedicated single cell self contained bike lights. This can be critizised (and has been done more than enough), but this comparison is totally ok for a bike light.
But OL forgot e.g. the B&M lights like the Ixon Core and Ixon Space, which allow also charging during use. And those are bike lights, albeit not for helmet use.



cue003 said:


> @Outbound (Matt), Can you find out from Tom the exact mount he used for the handlebar setup of the Hangover in the pic above? I have been trying to find something like that but have been unsuccessful. Any help will be appreciated.


Not Matt, but this could be the Ritchey GoPro Stem Mount. (Sorry for the link to a german shop, i am sure you can buy it from a vendor closer to your home) Edit: looked at Toms setup again, seems like a different mount, somehow fixed with screws below the stem. But maybe the Ritchey Mount is helpful as well.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

mestapho said:


> It's in the pics post but they are Gloworm spot optics


Thanks, I just wanted to know exactly what I was looking at. Those optics make a huge difference in that lights output (+50% for max. lux readings).
Mole


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

Velodonata said:


> I would prefer to hold off until I can compare it to the set I am receiving in a day or two, it could be a significantly better option.


Seemingly, once the best option is found, someone could 3D print a surround that would fit snugly in the space the rubber door now occupies and keep things dry and movement free.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Stihlgoin said:


> Seemingly, once the best option is found, someone could 3D print a surround that would fit snugly in the space the rubber door now occupies and keep things dry and movement free.


I'm not even sure that would be worth the trouble. The magnetic plugs I have now are a snug fit, I believe by design. They won't come out on their own. I put the thinnest o-ring I had on hand around it and outside of some very extreme conditions I think it will be plenty. A thin gasket would also be very simple to make. I went ahead and cut the flap away to clear the plug area, it is very securely installed and will not pull out without significant force, I tried and quit pulling before it tore. The Hangover is a very solidly built device and a nice piece of hardware.

It also remains to be seen how often the recharge while riding feature will be needed, I am really looking forward to getting this thing in the woods Friday night to see how it does on a typical ride paired with the OL Trail.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

Maybe more of an OEM update down the line, perhaps. We will see what impact consumer feedback and innovation has on the future generations of this light.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Stihlgoin said:


> Maybe more of an OEM update down the line, perhaps. We will see what impact consumer feedback and innovation has on the future generations of this light.


My preference would be to have a way to quickly swap batteries, and optionally use 21700 cells. It would be a relatively simple change. There is almost enough room for a 21700 as is. That would make all this runtime drama and charging hassle go away. I'm resisting the temptation to go full Red Green on this thing and make it happen. Well, I am at least waiting to see how well I like it in actual use.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Velodonata said:


> My preference would be to have a way to quickly swap batteries, and optionally use 21700 cells.


See my post #2. Not having the battery quickly changeable by the user during a ride was pretty much the deal killer for me.

-Garry


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

Velodonata said:


> My preference would be to have a way to quickly swap batteries, and optionally use 21700 cells. It would be a relatively simple change. There is almost enough room for a 21700 as is. That would make all this runtime drama and charging hassle go away. I'm resisting the temptation to go full Red Green on this thing and make it happen. Well, I am at least waiting to see how well I like it in actual use.


Carpe Ductum, man.
("Seize the Tape" for those who don't know Latin)
Ah, Red Green. He would probably end up taping his bike frame via broom handles to a construction site mobile light and calling it some sort of rickshaw. The memories. Plausible solution....


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

lostplaces said:


> the only way to make ports saver agains water is to make a sealing outside the port to prefent water comes into the eletronic parts!!
> te connenctor or better the pins will still have problems with corrosion!!
> 
> to let a magnetic plug in, you need to glue it in with silicone or another stuff to protect the pins to!!!
> or you will destroy it faster if water start to sit between the pins.


I don't buy this argument at all. A properly designed unit will not have issues. For 20+ years I have been using +/- $3,000 mobile devices outdoors for 6+ hours at a time sometimes completely covered in snow. I don't even flinch if one of these gets submerged in water. I've never experienced a corrosion problem or connection problem due to this use. Like these lights, the units are brought back indoors to dry before going back out the next day.

Here's a pic showing one of these types of mobile devices. This is an old one with the ports on the bottom, but some brands/models have the ports across the top. There are no port covers on most models.









-Garry


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

garrybunk said:


> I don't buy this argument at all.


x2. I support researchers who take electronics to really harsh environments, from the arctic to tropical rainforests. Properly designed electronics work fine in these environments without a problem, granted you have to pay top dollar for them but (just like bikes) you get what you pay for.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

For those that don't want the stick on mount or can't use it due to curvature, I bought this Action Camera Mount for Helmets... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NMWTPOA?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Initial impression is that it will work well. Quality seems good and I like the nylon straps vs Velcro.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

Are you saying that this helmet light comes with a flat GoPro mount and not a curved GoPro helmet mount?









*****


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

scar said:


> Are you saying that this helmet light comes with a flat GoPro mount and not a curved GoPro helmet mount?
> 
> View attachment 1299139


Long time no see, scar! Mine came with a mount that looks like the upper one in your pic. Slightly curved.


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

Outbound said:


> Our goal was always 2 hours of runtime as that is typically how long Tom does his rides out in the desert. As mentioned before seems no one raises a stink when NR or L&M say 1.5 hours of runtime and their stuff lasts for 30 minutes at 60% of the claimed 1200 output...


First of all, I am a big OL fan. I am a repeat happy customer and I am stoked to support a US based company that's trying to do something different. I intend the following statements to be as objective as possible. I am not looking to bash what you have done.

I don't think there would be any backlash at all if it weren't for the last 2 words: "Two hours of run time _*on high*_." My wife tells me I am dense all the time but to me that means 2 hours of run time on high. One hour of run time on high followed by another hour run time on medium and low is not two hours of run time on high. That's just plain English.

I also think the reason you are being compared to lights that everyone knows have questionable specs/run times (the above mentioned NR, L&M, cheapo Chinese lights) is because you specifically called out those brands and stated OL is different. Your promotion of the light having a "two hour run time *on high*" is false which puts OL in the same boat as those other manufacturers. You earned a lot of credibility and legitimacy with Focal series lights and, in my opinion, you have damaged that reputation with the way you promoted the Hangover.

As I already mentioned, I am a happy OL customer. I have both the trail and road edition Focal series lights. Honestly, I considered cancelling my order after reading the initial real world reports of the Hangover. Personally, the light will still work for me and I hate riding with a cord going to my helmet so I am still anxiously awaiting the arrival of my Hangover (just got my shipping notice, yesterday). I'm pretty stoked to go for a ride and try it out!


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

scar said:


> Are you saying that this helmet light comes with a flat GoPro mount and not a curved GoPro helmet mount?
> 
> View attachment 1299139
> 
> ...


It's curved but someone above couldn't get it to work with their helmet.

I didn't try because I don't want that sticker on my helmet all the time and I need to use the light on multiple helmets.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

mestapho, your link above isn't working. Can you correct / repost the link?

Thanks!
-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

*Does this work?*

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NMWTPOA?[ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share/URL


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

andychrist said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NMWTPOA?[ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share/URL


Reviews look questionable (i.e. not standard gopro sizing)


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

baker said:


> Reviews look questionable (i.e. not standard gopro sizing)


I bought 2 of the GoPro mounts.

https://www.amazon.com/GoPro-Vented-Helmet-Strap-OFFICIAL/dp/B002EF2200


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

garrybunk said:


> For 20+ years I have been using +/- $3,000 mobile device


same like me.

and i dont talk about whatever i talk about *only the flimsy pins* from USB conectors!!!!!
big connectors with alot of contact surface and material is not that about we talk here.

the last ~6 years companys start to put about the mobilphone hype on an gadget the creapy micro USB **** on anythink, i destroyed alot of them in *normal use* "without the corrosion problem!"coz they are mechanicly horrible stuiff.
not only on phones, alot of gadgets that comes with this connector will die to....

i have a hot air solder station so no problem for me to solder new one and replace them always or for friend on there gadgets the destroyed micro USB connectors.

the conectors themself are cheap like hell.
only with a solder iron thats not funny to do.

~1 year ago now the USB-C starts to *** in more and more products, and this connector have more pins then micro USB and the surfsace looks smaller so i dont know how many i will replace from this one the next years.

i hate this stuff to see it on produkts that nothing to have to do with data transmission task for what is this connector made for......

i am talk about the flimsy 0,2mm pins in a USB port !!!!

and if you loose the rubber plug to protect the connector in your toys or better this 0,2mm metal pins you will have a corrosion contact problem.

if you check the Astrolux HL01 its the first helmet light with a serious made USB port protection on it!!!!
the pins protected 100% against dust and watter"= corrosion" and dirt, so it will last manx times longer then any other light with this port.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

baker said:


> Reviews look questionable (i.e. not standard gopro sizing)


It works fine with the Hangover. A little tight but nothing major.


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## 6feet10 (Aug 10, 2017)

I'm still undecided if I should cancel my order.

There are two open questions:
(1) How long is the runtime on medium?
(2) Can we do firmware updates at home or have the lights be shipped to Matt?

With less runtime the light serves less purposes. It will still be the perfect backup light for dayrides if they take too long. And for short night rides or rides on easy trails where I don't need that much light.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

6feet10 said:


> (1) How long is the runtime on medium?


According to Mole's test up above in post #333, he got approximately 140 minutes on medium (until stepdown to low).

-Garry


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

lostplaces said:


> ..... the Astrolux HL01 its the first helmet light with a serious made USB port protection on it!!!!
> the pins protected 100% against dust and watter"= corrosion" and dirt, so it will last manx times longer then any other light with this port.


When I search for that light all I get are pictures of a 90 degree flashlight. Sure, one can strap most anything to a helmet, but I would not consider that a helmet light.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

6feet10 said:


> (1) How long is the runtime on medium?
> (2) Can we do firmware updates at home or have the lights be shipped to Matt?


2:18 before it steps down to low. No degrading of output from start up to that point. Check post #333 for ouput chart. Don't think the firmware update exists yet.
Mole


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## Slipway (Sep 19, 2018)

I'm not sure what is expected from a firmware update. Because this will not change the physics.There is simply not enough energy in the battery to run much longer with maximum lumens. Of course you can change the characteristics from drop to something more linear, but this would only lead to earlier dimmer light.


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Got mine over the weekend. My quest? 2 self-contained lights w/o the need for backup batteries that provide sufficient light for 2 hours-ish of night riding.

Did a short test ride last night to test against my previous/now bar light. Here are my thoughts based on my previous setup...

Previous Setup > Exposure Diablo MK8 1400L + 3.4ah Battery
The Exposure Diablo has been my goto for my many years. This light is very comparable to the Hangover, besides the price as it's way more expensive. Before the MK8 I had the MK2, which lasted for 6 or 7 seasons. The light is very reliable and durable. It can run on high for a solid hour and medium for 2.5+. For night rides requiring light the entire time I'd add the small support battery and attach it to the helmet. This let me run it on high for almost 3 hours! So a self-contained light that is self-contained-ish with the small battery. The downside to this setup was the a very heavy setup on the helmet. Also, the light on medium doesn't have a far enough reach. Run it on high and you get a lot of shadowing. I tried a Lumina 1200 on the bar alongside this setup, which helped but I still had to run the Diablo on high to make it usable and I still had some serious shadowing further down the trail. So, now I had 3 batteries to charge and I'm still not happy with the results.

Enter the Hangover. My plan was to run the Hangover on the helmet and the Diablo on the bars with no backup batteries. So, I took both lights out on my brief ride. I put them both on high for about 15 minutes as I spun away from house and road lighting. After that I put them side by side to see what I had going on. I also spun around for about 30 minutes at different speeds, trying all the different brightness settings on both lights to see what I liked. Here is what I found:
- The Hangover is lighter than the Diablo and feels way more comfortable on the helmet. The GoPro mount is superior to the Diablo mount.
- The Hangover light on high is not as bright as the Diablo on high but actually has a further and wider throw. 
- There is no shadowing with the Hangover and only a small bright spot in the middle. The Diablo has a very pronounced bright spot in the middle on all modes. 
- The Diablo on medium is pretty much unusable for night riding. The shadow affect is gone, but the throw is very short and the light is dim. The Hangover on medium is usable, but not preferable as an only light.
- Both lights on low can get you out of the woods.
- For duration my experience with the Diablo is it gives you a solid 1 hour on high and about 2.5+ hours on medium. It does ramp down, but it's not easy to track this as the battery monitor doesn't really work well. I just know it's bright as hell at the beginning and very dim towards the end of the ride.
- Since my ride was short I couldn't get a feel for the Hangover. Based on the posts on this forum 1 hour on Hi, then 30 on medium, then 30 on low sounds comparable to the Diablo
- Running both lights is amazing. The Hangover on high on the helmet and the Diablo on medium on the bars was pretty amazing.
- I ran both on medium and it was also excellent, but noticeably less throw.
- I could see running the Hangover as my only light on the high setting. On medium it could work, but I'd be wanting more light.

So, overall I'm stoked with my initial testing. The question will be how the combo works on longer rides. Hoping to get that done next week. 

I should mention my wife did a 2 hour ride last night with this same combo. She said the drop down from high to medium was noticeable, but not a problem, she still had plenty of light. When it dropped down to low it was more noticeable, but still not a problem given that she had both lights running. The Diablo ramps down, so no way to tell how much it's ramping down.

As far as the Hangover itself? Impressive little light. The beam pattern is noticeably better than the Diablo. I really like the GoPro mounting as now I can run it on my snowboard helmet and DH helmet. I noticed the humming when not moving, but couldn't hear it while riding. It didn't bother me at all.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

@woodyak, maybe also a great solution would be to run a Hangover on the bars and another Hangover on the helmet.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

cue003 said:


> @Outbound (Matt), Can you find out from Tom the exact mount he used for the handlebar setup of the Hangover in the pic above? I have been trying to find something like that but have been unsuccessful. Any help will be appreciated.


Not sure what mount Tom used but this Gloworm setup will give you the same effect.
Mole















https://www.action-led-lights.com/collections/gloworm-parts-and-accessories/products/gloworm-quick-release-handlebar-mount

https://www.action-led-lights.com/collections/gloworm-parts-and-accessories/products/universal-adapter-for-gloworm-quick-release-handlebar-mount


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

MRMOLE said:


> Not sure what mount Tom used but this Gloworm setup will give you the same effect.
> Mole
> 
> View attachment 1299275
> ...


Just popped in to respond to this; Ritchey makes an excellent, light, sturdy GoPro adaptor for stem faceplates. It fits (just barely) 30mm spacing with some modification. While that won't fly for every stem, if it does, it is a clean way to integrate. Technically, it's supposed to be run on the bottom, but due to the design, you could run it "sideways" (both left/both right faceplate screws).

I modified mine to spread just a titch wider, and other than it having a propensity to rotate down slightly due to the wide stance, it has held a ~250g self-contained flashlight-type light just fine amidst some harsh riding.

I have nothing to add to the thread, not having _used_ the Hangover yet, but I did receive mine. The high-frequency whine is extremely noticeable to me...but I have, admittedly, not used it on the trail. I will make my decision with whether or not I can deal with it once I actually get on a trail.

Time/usage seems to be right in line with the reality of the type of riding I do; I will revisit using a magnetic disconnect on the light (can't hurt, right?), but will also add that, over 6 years, I've never had a failure of a USB port on a light, either myself or the 100's of people I've personally encountered. Broken switches, failed wires/solder joints? Tons, relatively. USB failures don't even register on my radar.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

First ride tonight. Only a few miles in the dark. 

First impression is the the hangover will do what I need just fine. Plenty of throw and blends well with the Focal Trail. Medium is fine for slower sections. 
My only criticism of the beam is that I wish it had a little more vertical spread. The narrow beam height requires more accurate beam aiming to get light in the right place. 

The BT21 is brighter with a wider beam but I’ll take the trade off for the weight and not having an external battery. 

I didn’t notice the noise at all stopped or moving but my ears aren’t great either. 

The Amazon GoPro strap worked perfect. I will get a lower profile qr mount for it though. 


My buddies instantly asked about the light. It stands out in a crowd. Looks very impressive.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> Not sure what mount Tom used but this Gloworm setup will give you the same effect.
> Mole
> 
> View attachment 1299275
> ...


Thanks for links MrMole. Is it me or is it not centered? I am a pain in the a** for that sort of thing and want it perfectly centered. It will screw with my mind if not. Lol


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

cue003 said:


> Thanks for links MrMole. Is it me or is it not centered? I am a pain in the a** for that sort of thing and want it perfectly centered. It will screw with my mind if not. Lol


If you are particular about it, look at the K-Edge mounts.

https://k-edge.com/product-category/light-and-action-camera-mounts/


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

cue003 said:


> Thanks for links MrMole. Is it me or is it not centered? I am a pain in the a** for that sort of thing and want it perfectly centered. It will screw with my mind if not. Lol


It is offset a little.
Mole


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Another ride w/ the Hangover last night, just the last couple miles ending in the dark. Snowy fire road climb, followed by snowy technical singletrack descent. I just used the Hangover with no bar light. Actually wasn't planning on finishing in the dark, but had my suspicions. This is the exact scenario where I see myself using the Hangover. Too lazy to breakout the batteries and separate head units...

Worked fine, but lighting is pretty easy when everything is white and bright. Light stayed stuck to my ski helmet with the adhesive mount, despite it looking suspect. Barely any surface area contact due to mismatched curves between the helmet and mount.

Adjusting the mount up/down is a cinch and it stays in place. Spread of the beam is pretty wide, but there is a fairly well defined hotspot in the middle.


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

Vancbiker said:


> When I search for that light all I get are pictures of a 90 degree flashlight.


Ok back in time 10 years ago.
at this time Zebralight and another company start the try to make the smallest possible helmet/headlight powerd by an 18650 battery.

i dont know if you know the importand parts of* any light* i show it you.

the 18650 battery, the driver to power the LED, then the LED"most times on a board used" and finally the optics for any type of beam what you like.

if you now try to get this 4 parts together on the smallest possible way to not easte an mm of space"air" beween them there is only one possible result.:thumbsup:
and the lighthead must be easy to move for adjust from narrow to far away so the result looks so.








only this design grands you 100% the smallest possible size without any mm of wastet space and mechanicly absolutly robustness for any type of harcore sports!!!!!!
i dont think that is hart to understand if you look on the mainparts of a battery powerd light.

if you will compare a zebralight with this outbound light that looks like a spaceship you will understand how horrible bulky this think is!!!!

if you drive with your car over a zebra nothing happening.
if you drive over this outbound think, you will have tons of parts.......

from the machanicly side a cheap toy.....

back to serious lights.
over the year all top manufacturs switch there other older design to this coz on any other way they are no challenge.

the only differences between all of this *only possible design* lights if you want a serious produkt are the details between them, and this detail are not small, *they are huge* an make heavy differences between all this lights!!!!

lets take some examples, 
nitecore makes with the HC30 a got cheap alroud perfomer next they want try somethink other and change the basic design to the HC60 HC65 with slider more bulky and heavy..... not sold so much so back to the one and only design.

now they make a new try to have somethink unique and make a double optic!!!!

nitecore is long is buisness so the drivers most time have a good effizenz and basic performance.
in dep review from it.

in high setting with an 18650 battery *500 lumen for 3 Hours* from an XP-L looks very solid.

or turbo 900 lumen for 70 minutes.

now make a backstep to one of the first budget lights in this class befor the SP40 was released for 20$ the wowtec A2S was 2 years ago the cheapest light in its class for 35$.

the machining was ok but the driver not have a so nice regulations....... compare it to the nitecore.

or the performance from a more powerfull player like a thrunite from last year.

1000 lumen for near 2 hours.

dont forget all of them have the half size of this outbound light!!!

or for another example.
Armytek"an USA company" released some years ago the wizard series and make with it a big hit.
one of the most sold helmet/head lights on the market over the Years, great smooth beam and build like a tank with a lifetime waranty.
in the lower pricerange they have the ELF series.

they have also decide to add an charge port, but not the flimsy micro USB they go the way with mangetic port same like Olight does it.

Olight and armytek offering for me the most interessting mounts to.
Armytek a simple fast klick, 1 second to mount or remove the light from the helmet.
or olight offering a magnetic snap in+ fix with a rubber.

most of the top companys offering there lights with different LED setups tint and beamprofiles...... to talk about all of that will be to much but you get near anythink you want if you know what you looking for!!!!

one of the examples.
the light market is more and more chabging to high CRI lights, coz more and more people dont want waste there money for ulgy bluish blinding and eyehurting cool stuff so people start same cry to armxtek, so they decide again to offering again a limited high CRI super LED edition of there wizard.

High CRI LED never will win a lumen vs energy consumtion challenge but the improvemen in pure qualitys compansates it more than that.
for example this Nichia 144A equiped wizard.

and one of the most important part of top the helmet lights is not the smallest possible size, its the fast switch empty to full battery option to have infinity runtime.

thats why i never will buy lights with glued in batterys.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

lostplaces said:


> Ok back in time 10 years ago...
> ...


Cool story bro. And unmitigated BS. Take your flashlight fetish somewhere else. That form factor sucks out loud compared to the Hangover for helmet light MTB use.


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

Velodonata said:


> Take your flashlight fetish somewhere else


I am talking about *pro helmet lights* running on a 18650 battery bro.
*thats the 100$ *range = zebralight and co are the natural challengers.

and from this lights hangover is at moment in size, weight,durability and performance lightyears away.

he called his light the smallest and most lightweight helmet light running on a 18650 on the market not me.

and if you not understand how and why helmet lights have change over the years to smallest possible sizes than its your fail.

i am always looking for something better and lighter in weight then Zebralight but still nothing that can challenge it on MTB helmet.:thumbsup:


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

I will say that I've previously had a fetish with budget lights and flashlights, including zebralight, olight, etc. I've successfully used various flashlight form lights for helmet and bar mounts. But, I always end up coming back to dedicated bike lights of one form or another. Why? Ease of mounting, adjustment, shaped beams, and quality. That isn't to say well-known brands are free from failure. In the past month, I've had a Blackburn Countdown 1600 and a Gloworm X2 fail on me. That is the price of using the heck out of them, including crashing repeatedly. 

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. But, I don't see the need to keep bringing up alternative flashlight/headlamp solutions in this thread. Feels a bit like beating a dead horse to me...


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

biking_tg said:


> To be fair one would need to know the power consumption of your setup vs the OL setup. Your lights throw a lot of light in the tree tops, the OL setup doesn't, so your setup probably blasts out more light to get the same result.
> Whether that would be a good argument to get those OL lights is a different question, especially if you like your setup.


Wasn't trying to be fair, and quite frankly admit am comparing apples to oranges. Point was just to show how a conventional helmet/bar setup at equal color temperatures can combine beam patterns just as unnoticeably as the Trail+Hangover. KD BL2S runs about 2A (8.4V battery pack) and the BL70S I hear goes to 3A? Anyway, uses Cree XHP70.2 which supposedly gets 180lm per Watt. OP Reflector doesn't provide the smoothest beam pattern so I jerry-rigged a home brewed diffuser over the cover lens which kinda kills the throw but spreads the light out close to 180º. Makes for a great low beam while the unmodified BL2S provides an even spot for distance.

And remember, a helmet light can point anywhere so if it's throwing light up into the tree tops that's only because the wearer's gaze is directed there. A desirable feature when riding a canopied trail which might have vegetation hanging down or owls making a swoop (has happened to me several times. :eekster: )


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## jeremy_burke (Jan 28, 2018)

My new light came today. I placed my order back in June but I live in Germany so that added to the delivery time. I’m excited to try it out. As an engineer (mechanical) I am so onboard with what Matt is doing and am excited to use this light and expect it will not be the last Outbound light I buy. 

Along those lines. I will be leaving this thread now. I have contributed what I can and strongly feel the discourse here has been unproductive for a while now and in many case toxic. 

I wish you all well especially Matt. Thanks for the great work on the light. I plan to use it hard like all my stuff and I will be following your work and company. Just not here.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

lostplaces said:


> Ok back in time 10 years ago.
> at this time Zebralight and another company start the try to make the smallest possible helmet/headlight powerd by an 18650 battery.
> 
> ........


Despite the page and a half of drivel, I still only see an angle head flashlight. Yes, one could use one on many methods to lash that to a helmet, but that does not make it a "pro" helmet light.

BTW, I'm very aware of what goes into a LED light. For my preference, that does not include a battery. Makes it too heavy for a helmet and not enough runtime when pushing lots of light. Started night riding almost 20 years ago and building lights almost 10 years ago so pretty aware of what I like best.


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## lostplaces (Aug 21, 2019)

Vancbiker said:


> For my preference, that does not include a battery. Makes it too heavy for a helmet and not enough runtime when pushing lots of light.


wire based lights and self contained lights are two different types.
thechnically advanced wire based lights not exist for example on the market, you need to carry alot more batterys then it really needs adittional in the packs.

the importand part you get in from top manufactures 1x18650 battery powerd lights, they are light 90 gramms is not heavy and on a very advanced techically level up to 200 lumen per watt effizenz rates!

the most wire based lights what i have in mx hands to this time running all on a very low effizenz rate at ~70 lumen per watt and thats relly horrible how much weight you must carry for low light amounts and low runtimes.

the other big advanced feature is to get with serious made 1x18650 light not only really ultralight and small lights, they are include fast battery exchange what makes infinity runtime on the very high effizenz rate.

i am using for that reason many years only this helmet lights,* infinity runtime.*

only in one use thats is no option in caving+ underwater or other problematicly extreme sports, there is the fast battery change no option, there you must calculate runtimes more in detail.

and this thread is about* 1x18650 battery powerd Helmet light*, if you not iteressted on this light concepts you are in the wrong thread for you.

i use exactly this concept for any type of sport and outdoor activitys for many many reasons.:thumbsup:

armytek sold for example ~1 mio of there higher prizepoint set helmet lights, there will be a reason for that.


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## MatchBC (Oct 27, 2019)

Anyway... shipping label notice today. I imagine it will be sent tomorrow. Ordered first week of November. I imagine that's just about all of the orders at this point. Opinions to follow!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

6feet10 said:


> I ordered the hangover and I'm also a bit dissapointed. Normally I don't buy stuff that has not been released yet. I followed the focal series releases and the positive communication here and everything seemed believable. I still believe that the lenses and light throw will be good but battery wise i really expected 2 hours of full throttle.* I just bought a sofirn SD05* because of its steady output in medium. It is a cheap light, good value, well constructed and has a really efficient driver. *Only the optical part is not perfect for my trail use, too narrow spot). It runs 2 hours with 18650 with 950lumens*. I'm no expert but I really believed in the claimed 2 hours. I would understand if it lasts 15 minutes less, but half of it?


....and in response Outbound replied:



Outbound said:


> Wait, so we couldn't pull off two hours straight on around 800-850 lumens with the highest grade 18650 battery out there, but you think an Aliexpress "950" lumen light will do 2 hours straight? I guarantee that thing is actually doing like 200 lumens to do that long, along with that tiny spot.
> 
> PM me your name and order number and I'll go ahead and refund you in full if you are disappointed already without having even used the light yet.


*@6'10,* When it comes to torches it is really hard to find one that meets all the criteria needed to make a good MTB helmet light. Added to that is the fact that torches ( straight torches ) are not always going to be mountable on most helmets without some DIY modifications.

While the SD05 you bought might have some decent run times using the Cree XPH50 emitter, I have a hard time believing that it can run 2hrs using the best 18650 cell and still provide 950 lumen throughout the run time. Since you already stated that it has a somewhat narrow beam pattern you might consider buying one of the Fireflies E01's. Using the Luminus SST-40 ( 5700K ) emitter it supplies excellent throw as well as a wide beam pattern due to the TIR optic is uses. I haven't been able to test the run time in the 1K lumen mode ( because of the seasonal weather ) but I suspect it will provide a bright output for at least 50 minutes using the best 18650's. Alternate between the 1K and 500 lumen mode and it should last on one cell much longer. When you are using something that is only using one cell you just don't run it on full output all the time because if you do the output is either going to drop because of thermal protection circuitry / a timed cutoff or simply because of the drop in voltage in the cell. ( P.S. The E01 will also run with a 21700 cell which of course means it can provide longer run times if you use the bigger cells )

*@Outbound;* The advantage of the Hangover from what I have gathered from the people who have bought one is that the lamp has a very usable beam pattern. Seems there are mixed reviews based on expectations that the lamp was going to run on full output for 2 whole hrs. That's unfortunate but should of been expected as many people are unfamiliar with lamps ( or torches ) that are only using one 18650 cell. While I don't think I would of liked the auto drop-down feature I don't think it would have bothered me since I already know enough about lamps that use a non-replaceable 18650 cell. Using a single cell lamp you must use the lower outputs if you want extended run times.

Going forward I don't think you need to market a two cell lamp. It would be better to retool the current lamp so that the user can replace the battery while in the field. The advantage of using a good torch is that the user can replace the cell at any time if the output starts to wane. Not all torches have narrow beam patterns. Personally I've found a couple that provide both throw and beam width that are quite usable when MTB'n. The downside to buying torches is that you really don't know what kind of beam pattern you will get until you actual have it in your hands. If the beam pattern is too narrow you have throw but also lack of peripheral illumination. If the beam pattern is too wide you end up with too much close-in reflective feedback, a general lack of throw on lower outputs which in turn pretty much makes for a miserable helmet lamp.

Once again my advice is to make the current Hangover more usable by making the battery serviceable in the field. Next but not least of all, make the modes "user programmable" so the user gets to set the outputs on the modes so they get both output and run time that they like. Do these things and you will likely double your sales. If you were to make the kind of changes I suggested I would not hesitate to buy one myself.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I would love a two cell, or even three cell, version of the hangover. I need a good bikepacking light and maximum runtime on a self contained unit would be ideal.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

hardtail party said:


> I would love a two cell, or even three cell, version of the hangover. I need a good bikepacking light and maximum runtime on a self contained unit would be ideal.


I can't imagine having a 2, or especially 3, cell light on my helmet for bikepacking...then again, I have a screwed up neck from crashing on my face in Fruita 17 years ago.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

hardtail party said:


> I would love a two cell, or even three cell, version of the hangover. I need a good bikepacking light and maximum runtime on a self contained unit would be ideal.


You probably don't wear the fanny pack I see in your vids when bikepacking? If you did, a charger pack would give even longer output. Once the temps here warm up from the single digits I will test mine out and report back. I am not a very tech savvy guy, but wouldn't it also charge your GoPros if needed? I know people want wireless, but I do not want more weight on my neck, especially on longer rides.


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## Systex (Jun 16, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> Next but not least of all, make the modes "user programmable" so the user gets to set the outputs on the modes so they get both output and run time that they like.


YES! This!. And, I'd add-- add a mode memory so that the light turns back on in the mode you left it in.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

lostplaces said:


> ......and this thread is about* 1x18650 battery powerd Helmet light*,......


Exactly. This is why you have been asked to quit posting about flashlights. Helmet light for MTB riding and a flashlight are not the same thing.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

baker said:


> I can't imagine having a 2, or especially 3, cell light on my helmet for bikepacking...then again, I have a screwed up neck from crashing on my face in Fruita 17 years ago.


....which is exactly why I recommend that a newer version allow for cell swap-out. When it comes to helmet lights "weight" is everything. Better to carry extra cells in a pocket or pack and swap-out when the output wanes then bare the weight of carrying the extra cells on your head / neck. As a general rule of thumb best to carry one 18650 for every hour you think you might be riding. However, those of us that are used to using a torch or another single cell lamp and know how to be stingy with the outputs can usually get more than an hour of run time out of a single cell. This means of course that you have to change to more efficient outputs more often than if you were using a normal multi-cell lamp. Now if you have the option and don't mind changing cells every hour or so than you can still use the brighter modes for longer periods as long as the lamp or torch doesn't over heat.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Cat-man-do said:


> ....which is exactly why I recommend that a newer version allow for cell swap-out. When it comes to helmet lights "weight" is everything. Better to carry extra cells in a pocket or pack and swap-out when the output wanes then bare the weight of carrying the extra cells on your head / neck. As a general rule of thumb best to carry one 18650 for every hour you think you might be riding...


And for the 22g difference 21700 should at least be an option.

It wouldn't take much to make it fit.
Would a 125g Hangover be too heavy? I think not.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

lostplaces said:


> i dont understand about what you talk, i am talking about helmet lights an the leading companies in this buisness.
> i start using 10 years ago helmet lights from profesionall manufacturs.
> and i never stop looking all the time for smaller sized and thechnically improved performances.
> 
> ...


Please share with us the sleek and effective way you mount your flashlights to your helmet. And quit your BS criticism of a light that you have never seen or touched. There is legit discussion on certain aspects of this light but every Hangover owner here has praised the quality of the hardware design and construction. The is nothing "weak building that it bracks easy in its parts" about this device.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

lostplaces said:


> ....another bad thing about this light, how to hell i can mount this think if i dont have any gopro stuff?
> if i see it right, if you not have go pro counterparts on your helmet no way to get it on any way on your helmet.
> 
> next doenside about this curious construction, if i try to get any go pro stuf and mount it on helmet it sticks out, then the light with the sticking out mount on the helmet....
> ...


What you are saying here about how flush a lamp can mount to a helmet is true of almost any helmet bike light / mounting system so I don't know why you are pointing this out as something negative about the OB.
I'm going to assume that the OB lamp comes with some type of GoPro mounting strap to be used on your helmet. If not you can buy them online for relatively cheap. How flush it will be on your helmet will depend on the helmet you own.

I've used many types of helmet mounts in my day including the old Magicshine mounts setup directly on top of the helmet which really set the light up high off the helmet. Not the perfect solution but worked. Not everyone rides trails that have low tree branches brushing up against the helmet light. Having a lamp that is mounted more flush with the helmet is always going to be preferred but not all mounts are going to work the same way on every type of helmet. That's just the way it is so to bring this up as a critique against using an OB lamp is just BS.



lostplaces said:


> ....*how much this light sticks out from your helmet in totally from hekmet surface to the outer point of the light 15 cm?*
> it stuck in branches all the time on a night ride?
> .


....*15cm !!*....:eekster:.....*Fifteen F'n CM!*....:lol:.....Dude, that's like BS to the 10th power! I've never seen any lamp / mounting system that sat a lamp that high off the helmet. :nono: ( Do I need to post a photo of what that would look like?....really! )


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Velodonata said:


> Please share with us the sleek and effective way you mount your flashlights to your helmet. And quit your BS criticism of a light that you have never seen or touched. There is legit discussion on certain aspects of this light but every Hangover owner here has praised the quality of the hardware design and construction. The is nothing "weak building that it bracks easy in its parts" about this device.
> View attachment 1299731


Thanks for sharing that picture. I had a number of reasons for being attracted to and ordering one of these lights and the sleek integration with the Blendr mount for my Bontrager helmet was fairly high on the list. Looks great!


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

@lostplaces:

There's no questioning your technical ability with regard to battery life, runtimes and optical throw. Your contributions in other threads are really good and constructive.

In this thread, you had your say earlier and in some ways I see you as vindicated, the runtime is less than initially promised as you said it would be BUT Outbound has tried to address the concerns here quite openly with people who bought the light.

Now your posts are coming across as "argumentative just for the sake of arguing" and it's not helping the thread.

i'm seeing reports from other contributors to this post that your contribution is NOT helpful, and I have to agree with them.

Respectfully, so people who own the light can help each other work with each other in this thread unless it's constructive help (which I know you can give) please quit the bashing.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Velodonata said:


> ....
> View attachment 1299731


 Velodonata, what helmet is that? And also why mount on the helmet did you use to get it so flush/low profile? How is the helmet for breathability in the summer? I live in humid and hot S.FL.

Thanks.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

lostplaces said:


> <nonsense>


lostplaces' post about how awkward it is to mount this light to a helmet reminds me of those infomercials with people comically failing to use a spatula, stabbing at eggs and pancakes like they have no joints in their arms.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

cue003 said:


> Velodonata, what helmet is that? And also why mount on the helmet did you use to get it so flush/low profile? How is the helmet for breathability in the summer? I live in humid and hot S.FL.
> 
> Thanks.


Thats a Bontrager Blaze

https://www.trekbikes.com/ca/en_CA/...ountain-bike-helmet/p/25359/?colorCode=orange


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

Just for the sake of passing along useful info to clarify misinformation that our well-fed troll has vomited into this thread, the beam pattern lights up low hanging branches perfectly, both above ones head and in the near periphery. I have a lot of low branches where I ride and my first night ride EVER was with the Hangover. I was perfectly at ease riding my woods at night with it and was able to duck all the branches that were weighed down by a glaze of ice with no problems. My helmet, a Leatt DBX 2.0 allows for the supplied mount to be used, and the light doesn’t stick up much at all. I can’t wait to ride with the charge pack this weekend and see how the combo works together.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

driver bob said:


> Thats a Bontrager Blaze
> 
> https://www.trekbikes.com/ca/en_CA/...ountain-bike-helmet/p/25359/?colorCode=orange


Thanks, and thanks Velodonata for the pic. That's a slick setup. I might reevaluate my TLD devotion. Too bad I have a brand-new A2. Bell helmets also have an integrated GoPro Mount, but they don't fit me well.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

driver bob said:


> Thats a Bontrager Blaze
> 
> https://www.trekbikes.com/ca/en_CA/...ountain-bike-helmet/p/25359/?colorCode=orange


Awesome. Thanks for the info. Looks like the piece on top for the light is an add on piece also from bontrager. Is that correct? Now just need to find someplace to try it on.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

Should be, have them look up PN W563046.

I have a Blaze helmet but couldnt get used to the extra weight or feel of the wavecell. It was used one short ride and then I went bak to my MiPS helmet.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

driver bob said:


> Should be, have them look up PN W563046.
> 
> I have a Blaze helmet but couldnt get used to the extra weight or feel of the wavecell. It was used one short ride and then I went bak to my MiPS helmet.


Yeah I was just checking it out and on paper and the helmet looks heavy and I wonder if Wavecell impedes airflow a little. But the mount for the light is super clean. Looks well integrated with as little wasted space (height) as possible while being angled downward enough.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Stihlgoin said:


> You probably don't wear the fanny pack I see in your vids when bikepacking? If you did, a charger pack would give even longer output. I am not a very tech savvy guy, but wouldn't it also charge your GoPros if needed?


I do carry an auxilary battery to charge GoPros, gps,lights, and phone. I don't, however, want any cables dangling from my helmet when my bike is loaded up with all my bags and bikepacking gear. Simplicity is a thing of beauty when I'm bikepacking.



Stihlgoin said:


> I know people want wireless, but I do not want more weight on my neck, especially on longer rides.


It sounds like the hangover is the ideal light for you. I, on the other hand, would prefer more capacity for my needs, even if it means a bit more weight. We all have different needs/uses.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

The whole weight issue had me concerned. Didn't want you getting any whiplash injuries. My mind wanders to a light with batteries in a flexible external configuration that could Velcro to the outside of a helmet's ribs to allow for custom weight distribution without disturbing the mips or other safety features. I am not an engineer of any sort, and will not be rigging this up on my own for fear of a fire. 
I too wish the light had a longer burn on high, as I would love to ride for hours at night. I will make due for now, and see what Matt comes up with in the future for power options.



hardtail party said:


> I do carry an auxilary battery to charge GoPros, gps,lights, and phone. I don't, however, want any cables dangling from my helmet when my bike is loaded up with all my bags and bikepacking gear. Simplicity is a thing of beauty when I'm bikepacking.
> 
> It sounds like the hangover is the ideal light for you. I, on the other hand, would prefer more capacity for my needs, even if it means a bit more weight. We all have different needs/uses.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

don't get me wrong, I think this light is awesome. I'm just naive enough about light, lumens, specs, runtimes, and batteries to have known that it was unrealistic to expect 2h on high. I still think it's a cool light, but I'm excited to see what comes next from outbound.

I have only ever ridden light on my head (not the bars), so I like it to be pretty beefy. i've got some bright lights with an external battery pack, but self-contained is just so convenient for me. Since the hangover is already half the weight of most other helmet lights, I figure if he can make one that's double the runtime and double the weight, I'm game.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Stihlgoin said:


> My mind wanders to a light with batteries in a flexible external configuration that could Velcro to the outside of a helmet's ribs to allow for custom weight distribution without disturbing the mips or other safety features.


I've played around w/ this idea quite a bit. The best setup I found for me was a smaller 2 cell pack velcro'd to the rear bottom of the helmet. I had the lighthead mounted fairly forward on the front of the helmet, so they sorta counterbalanced each other. Zero clue on the safety aspects. I'm generally worried about blunt force impact during my crashes. ha

I can tell you, I already prefer the Hangover to my homemade hack. Although, the Hangover would allow for the same concept with an external pack velcro'd to your helmet...

Edit: it wasn't that much of a hack (tiny triple xp-e head unit w/ an external pack), but I still prefer the all-in-one nature of the Hangover, with the ability to extend runtime as needed with an external pack. I've given up on DIY lights. So many off the shelf good options nowadays...didn't used to be that way.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

hardtail party said:


> I have only ever ridden light on my head (not the bars), so I like it to be pretty beefy. i've got some bright lights with an external battery pack, but self-contained is just so convenient for me. Since the hangover is already half the weight of most other helmet lights, I figure if he can make one that's double the runtime and double the weight, I'm game.


Only ever ridden with a light on your head? Time to get crazy and add a bar light to the mix. If you are doing anything remotely technical, there are significant benefits just in shadow creation/rendition.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Velodonata said:


> Please share with us the sleek and effective way you mount your flashlights to your helmet. And quit your BS criticism of a light that you have never seen or touched. There is legit discussion on certain aspects of this light but every Hangover owner here has praised the quality of the hardware design and construction. The is nothing "weak building that it bracks easy in its parts" about this device.
> View attachment 1299731


As an owner of the same helmet (same color, even...), I have to ask if you find that the Outbound, verses a heavier light like Trek's own Ion 1300, suffers from making the go-pro insert break free from the magnetic insert on chunky trails.

I found with the Ion 1300, personally, that I needed to modify the mount to take 2 1/4" neodymium magnets to keep it from bouncing on moderate jolts (though it still would when I hit something particularly hard)...and that was with the light more-or-less centered on the mount. The stock magnet is almost good enough, but looses something like half it's potential hold strength due to the mounting system.

*edit* seeing that someone asked, the mount comes with the helmet (as does it's less-expensive cousin). As above, I personally find that the mount is less secure than it could be, especially considering the "best" helmet (the Lithos) that it replaced.


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## MrGT (Aug 19, 2005)

I am quite certain that the Hangover is not for me. If anyone wants to offer me $99 plus shipping please send a PM. Thanks


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

MrGT said:


> I am quite certain that the Hangover is not for me. If anyone wants to offer me $99 plus shipping please send a PM. Thanks


Why is it not for you?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

cue003 said:


> Velodonata, what helmet is that? And also why mount on the helmet did you use to get it so flush/low profile? How is the helmet for breathability in the summer? I live in humid and hot S.FL.
> 
> Thanks.


It looks like it has already been well covered, but yes it is a Bontrager Blaze. I'm pretty happy with it yet I would only recommend it with reservations. It's too expensive primarily, and there is no single supremely outstanding thing about it other than for me, it is hands down the best fitting helmet I have ever had. Which is a valuable feature indeed for anyone with my skull. I don't know if it is something about the Wavecell material or just random luck, but it fits me great. But for anyone else I would suggest trying it on first. It does have a decent feature list, but not one that entirely justifies the price. The helmet/GoPro mount is indeed included with the helmet, and on mine it is very secure yet easy to remove. It is retained by a combination of magnets and snapping into its position. It works very well with the Hangover. The Boa adjuster also works well and the FidLock magnetic strap clasp is cool.

I also live in Florida, and I don't find it to be a hot helmet, it feels cool enough that I haven't noticed a difference from other well ventilated helmets. And as a bonus it comes with a second helmet pad that includes a sweat strip kind of like the Halo sweatbands that I have relied upon for years. This helmet allows me to ride without being blinded by sweat, and without a sweatband. This alone is probably worth the price to me.

I don't know if the Wavecell is the best option for concussion protection or not, the opinions are mixed and the testing somewhat ambiguous, but it does seem to at least be on par with Mips and other technologies. That was the initial thing that got me interested in this helmet, but the overall combination of useful features and outstanding fit sold me on it.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

wschruba said:


> As an owner of the same helmet (same color, even...), I have to ask if you find that the Outbound, verses a heavier light like Trek's own Ion 1300, suffers from making the go-pro insert break free from the magnetic insert on chunky trails.
> 
> I found with the Ion 1300, personally, that I needed to modify the mount to take 2 1/4" neodymium magnets to keep it from bouncing on moderate jolts (though it still would when I hit something particularly hard)...and that was with the light more-or-less centered on the mount. The stock magnet is almost good enough, but looses something like half it's potential hold strength due to the mounting system.
> 
> *edit* seeing that someone asked, the mount comes with the helmet (as does it's less-expensive cousin). As above, I personally find that the mount is less secure than it could be, especially considering the "best" helmet (the Lithos) that it replaced.


 Mine is very secure, I have even run it with a mount doubler and a light and camera at the same time. I just got in my first really good trail ride with the Hangover on it last night and it worked perfectly, I could adjust aim and change settings easily and without the light or mount shifting at all. It sounds like there is a problem with the snap portion of the mount on yours. The magnet almost seems secondary to it snapping into the little recessed sockets at the front of the slot. It takes a firm press on mine to snap it in, and it is a positive feeling when it engages. This sounds like a warranty issue.


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

baker said:


> I've played around w/ this idea quite a bit. The best setup I found for me was a smaller 2 cell pack velcro'd to the rear bottom of the helmet. I had the lighthead mounted fairly forward on the front of the helmet, so they sorta counterbalanced each other. Zero clue on the safety aspects. I'm generally worried about blunt force impact during my crashes. ha
> 
> I can tell you, I already prefer the Hangover to my homemade hack. Although, the Hangover would allow for the same concept with an external pack velcro'd to your helmet...
> 
> Edit: it wasn't that much of a hack (tiny triple xp-e head unit w/ an external pack), but I still prefer the all-in-one nature of the Hangover, with the ability to extend runtime as needed with an external pack. I've given up on DIY lights. So many off the shelf good options nowadays...didn't used to be that way.


I share your opinions and had a very similar setup with my Gloworm X2, running a 2 cell pack strapped to the helmet. The extra weight was noticeable but acceptable as an alternative to being connected by cable to my hydration pack or pocket.

After one good trail ride with the Hangover, for the most part I didn't miss the significantly higher output of the X2. Matt has created a niche for himself with his very well developed beam patterns and the Hangover on the helmet makes the most of what it puts out and indeed paired well with my OL Trail light on the bars.

I did begin to run out of light towards the end of what was a longer than typical night ride for me, it was in the second stepdown, low part of the "1.9 hours on high" of output. I ran it on high for the majority of the ride when in singletrack, keeping it off on doubletrack and at regrouping stops. I also didn't really miss the wireless remote from the X2, the button on the Hangover is easier to use than the button on the X2 lighthead so the bar mount buttons no longer seem as needed although it is a neat convenience.

So it's not a perfect replacement for the X2 but it seems like it is going to work for me. And if there is a second generation Hangover with a 21700 battery or swappable cells, I will be a day 1 buyer, as I was for the Hangover, based on my experience with the Trail lights and buying from Outbound. I'm still playing with my options for extending the runtime of the Hangover, I didn't take any extra sources of power on the first ride wanting to see what it could do as a true standalone. And I'm not particularly excited about going back to cords but there are some interesting ways to do it.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

Snow got so cold, it is like riding in sand. Will try a longer night ride when it melts in a few days.


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## pdxkid (Sep 22, 2016)

I received my light last night. Impressed with the small size and light weight. Like others, mine produces a high pitched audible whine that is annoying. I doubt I'll be able to hear it while riding but I certainly can hear it while it's on my helmet and I'm standing still. Bummer. Hopefully there is some sort of update that can get rid of this. 

Can someone link a high quality, small, high capacity battery bank to run with this thing?


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## Narrowback (Mar 26, 2017)

I received mine yesterday too. As others have said, the quality seems really good, very bright and good pattern. I did detect the whine, but only slightly. It seems to be very faint on mine. I haven't had a chance to take it for a ride yet, but hope to soon.

I'm also interested in a battery charger for it.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

pdxkid said:


> Can someone link a high quality, small, high capacity battery bank to run with this thing?


I've had great luck with Anker products, used them to charge my iphone for extended GPS jaunts with MTB & Moto. Also plane trips.

Anker PowerCore 10000 PD Redux









There's a cooler, smaller version.


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

I also got my light today looks great. This also looks like a good power bank I'll end up getting.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

Can someone link a high quality, small, high capacity battery bank to run with this thing?[/QUOTE]

It looks like you would want a QC 3.0 charger to get the quick charge times Matt lists. I linked one in an earlier post. Any charge pack with the proper power delivery will keep it running, but if you wanted to top it off during a break in the action quickly, the QC 3.0 units would be to your benefit. Mine was $20 after an Amazon coupon.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

From 5/29/19: 
"We're not using USB PD (Power Delivery), we're using USB QC (Quick Charge) protocol. QC enables 5V/3A charging from a large range of chargers without any weirdness in the communication, so if you have a USB charger than can put out 15W, you'll get full power no matter what. PD would be great to reduce charge times even further, but the protocol is much more inconsistent depending on brand, which would reduce the number of chargers that would be truly compatible with our fast charging rate. Meanwhile, any PD-capable charger should also work at 5V/3A with the Hangover. We wanted to make it easy for anyone to find a charger and have it work as advertised, so QC is a better path for the majority of users."


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Here's the options I currently have. Ravepower 5000mAh (cylindrical one/130g), Ravepower 10000mAh (flat one, 175g), and the 2 cell pack I normally use with my lightheads + the Magicshine usb converter (120g total). The runtime test I did a few posts back that extended the high modes total time to 2.6 hrs. was done with the 5000mAh bank. I didn't use the higher capacity powerbank because I thought it might be a bit too heavy. I've not tried the 2 cell + converter yet and am hoping it works well but will have to test and I'll post the results I get.
Mole


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

Here is how the hangover looks on a Bell Sixer helmet. At first i didn't like the break away go pro mount, cause it would rattle with a light on top of it. Well the easy fix was to crazy glue the edges.


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## phalkon30 (Jan 17, 2009)

I have the sixer helmet as well, don't like how loose the light thing is either. So your light mount is basically permanent? 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

No i just glued the center part that was lose. The mount can be still removed as normal.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Here is the ituo GoPro strap mount.


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

how about these two?

https://www.amazon.com/Portable-300...ds=usb+qc3+battery&qid=1577316478&sr=8-4&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/TOVAOON-2400...eywords=usb+qc3+battery&qid=1577316478&sr=8-5

i still need to figure out how to mount the battery on my helmet.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Those two are way higher capacity than you'd ever need for a single ride! And having that large a capacity has got to mean their heavy (I didn't look at the specs). I would think a 4,000 to 5,000mAh capacity one would be most suitable (unless someone is looking to do bikepacking or 24 races). 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Those two are way higher capacity than you'd ever need for a single ride! And having that large a capacity has got to mean their heavy (I didn't look at the specs). I would think a 4,000 to 5,000mAh capacity one would be most suitable (unless someone is looking to do bikepacking or 24 races).
> 
> -Garry


I agree! At least a 2A minimum charging rate is probably a must though as I've heard of charging problems at lower output levels. I tested my 3400mAh 2 cell pack with Magicshine usb adapter and got 243 min. in high mode so considering the low weight that's a better option than the powerbanks I have though a little more costly.
Mole


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

garrybunk said:


> Those two are way higher capacity than you'd ever need for a single ride! And having that large a capacity has got to mean their heavy (I didn't look at the specs). I would think a 4,000 to 5,000mAh capacity one would be most suitable (unless someone is looking to do bikepacking or 24 races).
> 
> -Garry


oh yeah good point. i didn't think about that. haha


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07LB1JQJW/ref=ox_sc_act_image_3?smid=A13LAO8K5A3ZLL&psc=1

This one looks pretty good to me but just by looking at the specs., have no actual experience with it. 101g, fast charge capable, 5000mAh capacity. It's one I'd consider trying if I needed a powerbank.
*
Tip I just learned* playing around with different external power sources today!!! The Hangover's output degrades about 25% in the first 15 or so minutes of operation which proves to be a problem for my old eyes since it's a bit limited on power to start with. Turning the light off and right back on again seems to bring the light right back up to it's start up levels at which point it starts to degrade at a similar rate. I haven't had a chance to test to see how deep in the battery capacity cycle you'll still be able to do this (hopefully even after it steps down to med.). Of course it will drain the battery capacity faster but nice to have this option if you need the extra output.
Mole


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## Mr. Long (Nov 17, 2016)

Sticky mount didn't work for my helmet. Swiped a strap mount from my wife's assorted gopro accessories. The straps didn't hold very well, so I removed them and used zip ties instead. Kinda ghetto, but the mount is nice and tight.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I personally like that idea! I'm more about function over form anyway!
-Garry


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

OB Trail & Hangover

[URL="


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Mr. Long said:


> Sticky mount didn't work for my helmet. Swiped a strap mount from my wife's assorted gopro accessories. The straps didn't hold very well, so I removed them and used zip ties instead. Kinda ghetto, but the mount is nice and tight.


Just got my Hangover...right out of the box I was surprised how small it is. Planning a ride tonite but I'm on the fence regarding the adhesive mount. I've used strap mount for years with Luminas and no issues. My son has a bunch of old Go Pro stuff but rummaging through his cache of hardware there's no strap mount to be found.

Typical winter ride includes considerable vibration, branches, moisture, and temps below freezing. I could be wrong but that's a lot to ask of an adhesive mount that's not a perfect match dimensionally to the curvature of my TLD helmet.

EDIT...Found this in my son's GoPro stash...I think this will work fine


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## MatchBC (Oct 27, 2019)

On my A1 helmet, I simply cut a strip of adhesive out of the pad to clear the ridge in the helmet. I've never run across an issue with the adhesive used on the gopro mounts.. it has always been surprisingly strong, I have no qualms with the mount, even without a perfect mate to the surface.

A layer or two of paper under the clip of the mount stops any rattles.

The light itself I am happy with. I am still irked about the way the battery life is presented, as it is clearly not anywhere near 2 hours on high as is written everywhere. An hour of riding on medium had the light indicated 50% charge remaining as expected.

For my use, the medium setting is adequate. The high setting is too bright and washes out the shadows created by the trail light (which I also use entirely on the medium setting, both for climbing and descending)

The low setting is a bit too dim for practical descending use. Plenty of light for being able to see around in general though, ie any off the bike stops, around the car after the ride. If it was the only source of light, it would get you out of the woods.

I'll try med-high on the trail paired with medium on the hangover next. The beams merge together flawlessly, it's just a matter of getting enough shadows from the bar light. The hot spot of the hangover is noticeable, but done appropriately so as to not cause too much tunnel vision or loss of peripheral.

Negatives: The rubber port cover is far too loose as others have mentioned. That's a real let down considering how carefully the optics are considered. I also notice the whine that has been discussed. When climbing slowly it is faint but present. The rubber I will likely remove and replace with a dedicated USB-C port plug that fits to keep any potential dirt out. The oval that aligns with the port should be taller on the rubber flap, to secure it into the port when closed.

The cast gopro tabs on the light fit a bit loosely into the mount. I cannot get a very secure clamp between the two. It has been snug enough not to cause a noticeable issue on the first ride, but I was also fiddling with things a bit.

The over-molded TPU/Rubber on the top half is a bit poorly formed above the gopro mount on mine. The lip is fully formed and the unit is sealed just fine, but again just not the level of detail I would have expected given the great experience with the trail light - and I think that really sums it up. The trail light has clearly been such a good unit, that expectations were quite high for the hangover, and it has not met the same mark. Still a good light, I will keep it and use it regularly.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Maiden voyage with the Hangover last night. 

Like:
The Hangover is smaller and lighter than I expected but it puts out an impressive amount of light for it's size. It was easy to change from low/med/high while riding and wearing winter riding gloves.

Immediately noticed the wide beam is very different from the Lumina 950 I've been using for the last couple of years. I mounted the Lumina on my bars and the Hangover on helmet. Holy sh*t...having two lights was a treat! I've done night riding every fall/winter for many years and this was first time I ever rode with 2 lights. 

I experimented by turning one or the other off but most of the time I had both running on MED setting which was more than enough light for tight, technical, wooded New England singletrack. By itself, the Hangover on HIGH was great but I only used this setting for select portions of the trail.

My needs are close-up lighting to clearly see the rocky/rooty terrain, obstacles, ice, etc. Very little fast/flowy terrain around here so looking way ahead is not as important to me.
The Lumina has a brighter beam but the Hangover has more USEFUL beam pattern for my trail riding. The two in combination were awesome.

Could be better:
Battery life is so-so...I had it plugged into USB in my truck when I got to the trailhead so it was 100% charged and ready. Temp was about 32degF and ride was 1hr-45min using mostly MED setting. I would say 25% of ride was on HIGH. I had 1 bar at end of ride. Post ride beer and load-up was about 30 minutes and it was still on 1 bar when I headed out. If I use MED setting 50% and HIGH 50% should get me 2hrs. In super cold temps it may be challenged at 2hrs.

Don't care:
Hum...when I took it out of box and turned it on in my house I could hear it. I can't see how this would bother anyone on the trail. You can't hear it while actually riding.

Dust cover...really? Any light I've ever had it's all about the battery and once it goes it's time for a new light. On average that's about 3 years for me.

Bottom line, for $100 I'm happy and it's a keeper.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Another ride with the Hangover. No moon with a mix of snog (snow fog) and clear. Put all 3 settings to good use. High on fast 30+ mph gravel sections. High through twisty descending singletrack. Medium for most other stuff. Low on the long slow climbs. Worked great.

The only place it sucked? Snog. Lit up everything like being in a snow globe. I imagine that would be the case for any headlamp. I was better off with just the anemic handlebar Exposure Revo Dyno light for those sections.

Oh yeah, the button is totally usable with lobster claw mitts. A big plus for me on a 23 degree ride...









Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

^^^ yep. Fog lights are mounted low on cars so that they don't light up all the snow/fog in your line of sight.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

baker said:


> ......The only place it sucked? Snog. Lit up everything like being in a snow globe. I imagine that would be the case for any headlamp. .......


Another condition where a helmet light creates vision issues is dust. Get in a group night ride in late summer in a place where trails get dusty and you'll see a similar effect.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

baker said:


> Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk


Funny, but looking at this photo this song popped into my head.  ...and yes, I live near Baltimore, Md. ....funny...I happened to buy some crab soup when I went shopping tonight.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

I've had a couple of rides now on mine, and I feel like I can expound more on the state of the light; The corresponding light for the bars is an Outbound Trail.

The first ride was a titch more than an hour long, so there was never any worry about the state of charge in the light. Due to an oversight (not having ridden in almost a month due to weather/obligations), I wound up with the bar light on medium-high for the majority of the time. I switched the Hangover from medium, to an occasional high, but found it largely unnecessary, even on wide open downhills [nb: this probably had something to do with having the bar light on a higher-than-intended mode]. After the ride, as expected, the battery was ~half discharged. Wholly adequate for the length of time riding. The spill of light on medium is MORE than the Bontrager Ion 1300 that I was previously using, without the wildly overpowered center spot. Weight of the light is noticeably less than the 1300--not surprising--and the profile allowed sneaking under low-hanging vines/branches that required dismounting/hugging the handlebars previously.

The second ride with the light was with roughly 80% battery capacity, and ran for a bit less than 2 hours. This time, I left the bar light on medium low for the entire ride, and switched the Hangover between low (singletrack that was flat/pointed up) and medium (faster flats/downhills). By the ~1 hour mark of my ride, I was unable to switch into high mode, even if I wanted to; I have to say, that that particular design feature of Outbound's lights may very well be a deal breaker. Ultimately, _I_ can live with it, but would prefer that the light let me manage my own output...at the very least, allowing me to switch into a higher mode for a minute or two before stepping down. The rest of the ride was uneventful, and I was able to see everything I needed to see, when I needed to see it. I am quite familiar with the place that I rode, so a lower level of light was adequate...riding in a less familiar place, I could easily see needing more light/runtime than the light can provide. By the time I finished the ride, the light would go into medium, but had only a 'chiclet' left before it would be locked out.

Generally speaking, the light spill is significant to the sides, but constrained in an up-down sense. Throw is more than adequate on high, though not in the same sense as a light like the Bontrager that throws an impressive distance, but has an irritating hot spot, especially when passing though tight trees. The Hangover has no such limitation in that respect, being much more useful in wooded areas. I appreciate, as with the Focal lights, that there is no 'flashlight' effect. There is light were I am looking, especially to the sides, but no excessive hot spot in the middle.

Regarding the finish on the light: as noted above, my unit has what appears as a gap above the mounting splines, but which is filled with the sealing element that runs around the unit. I go out of my way to not ride in wet/poor weather, but given the rest of the construction of the light/the construction of the Trail, I am currently devoting little worry to this.

The hum is, in a word, noticeable. I would leave it up to each individual person just what that means; as an erstwhile piano-tuner, it is both immediately obvious, and persistent, even while moving. The more I need to concentrate on the trail, the more it melts into the background, but it is THERE when I listen for it. The fact that my particular unit (and I must assume, others) is loudest when it is on low, and the bike is likely moving the slowest, is bothersome. When/if it becomes possible to update the light--which I am sure will require sending it back, since there is no USB recognition when plugged into a computer--I will absolutely be taking advantage of it.

So, where does that leave the Hangover? I find it occupying it's own space. It has a beam pattern, form factor, and run time that is not matched by anything else currently on the market (for the pedants out there: that is, ALL THREE things). You can certainly buy more powerful single-cell lights, replaceable cell lights, or lighter lights, but nothing that manages the weight/beam-pattern/self-contained nature of the light. The pass through function of the light allows extending the run time. I find this agreeable, coming from using a remote-battery light on the helmet. _If_ the extra run time/power is necessary, a cache battery is useable, and even suitable to the light. It adds no more significant weight than carrying extra cells, and comes with the added benefit of not having to worry about dropping something when it is cold...which for those of us that are riding at night, is typically when worrying about the run time of the battery is necessary. I could personally see this light, using modified internals/no internal battery becoming an even-more-niche just-for-helmet mounting.

It is not a perfect product in the current state--but it is quite close. Refining the current model (fixing casting issues, if it is a consistent problem; improving the fit of the charging port cover; changing the programming of the light to remove the keening ["hum"] from the circuitry) would make a light that ticks off everything I personally need in a helmet-mounted light.


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## newking (Nov 6, 2007)

I got mine a couple weeks ago and finally used it.

>You can notice the "hum" when standing but not so much when riding.

>Medium is OK but high mode I much prefer as it has a nice beam pattern, tone and color

> it's nice and light which is very nice when running on a helmet. Also it sits a bit lower than a lot of helmet lights that seem to be 4-5" above your head and can catch branches

>Mounting is a bit tricky as the light sits low and if your going to run the cord to a power bank you have to get the angle right so that if you plug the cord into the light it's not pushing the light up too high. Took a little fidgeting to get it right

>Run time is a disappointment. If your going to do a 2 hour ride your have to either run medium or bring a powerbank

> I ran mine to a powerbank and used the stock cord. The stock cord is not very long and won't reach to a jersey 3 back pocket so for now I am running it to a jacket front pocket. Have to think about where to place your powerbank or maybe there is a longer cord?

so for $99 it's a nice light with some limitations


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

newking said:


> ...
> 
> so for $99 it's a nice light with some limitations


At the pre-order price I will agree. I think for many the limitations become much harder to swallow at the now price of $150.


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

cue003 said:


> At the pre-order price I will agree. I think for many the limitations become much harder to swallow at the now price of $150.


That is a very important distinction and I agree 100%.


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

*Really good little light!*

I finally got a chance to test out the Hangover. My first impressions are quite good. The build quality is phenomenal and the light mounts nice and low on my Giro helmet with an integrated mount, which is excellent. As expected, the beam pattern is superb. I found the medium setting to be more than adequate for general trail riding and paired well to both the medium and medium-high settings on my Focal trail series light which was mounted on the bars. For the rowdier downhill sections I put both the Hangover and Focal Trail lights on high and felt that I could ride as fast as when riding during daylight. The lights on high are ridiculously bright and produce exceptional and well-matched beam patterns. I did not notice the high pitched hum while riding. I also did not feel like I had a light on my head. It is very lightweight.

My ride started before dusk so I did not push the light to the edge of it's battery capacity. This has been discussed _ad nauseam_ but here are my $.02 after some real world use. This light will need to be managed to endure longer rides. As I mentioned above the beam pattern is very usable even in the medium setting so I would recommend using medium while riding general trails/XC. For the climbs I would go to low or even turn it off. I would reserve high mode for the high speed descents. While a "set it and forget it" mentality is always nice, this light does not afford that luxury.

*Constructive feedback for @Outbound based on my use of this light:*
A light with the same brightness/beam pattern with a larger cell, multiple cells, or a user swap-able cell would get my money on day one. The current design is very lightweight and my opinion is that there is some headroom (pun intended) to add a little weight in exchange for longer run time.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Think I'm finally getting somewhere on figuring out how to most effectively use the Hangover (for me anyway). Med. setting is OK but I think this is a much better helmet light using the high beam only. It's approx. hour runtime in high works for most of my rides since I don't use a helmet light on road/path situations and my rides usually have around a 75/25% road/dirt split. For bar use the med. mode is fine (I don't plan on using the Hangover on the bars mtn. biking) and for extended mountain rides I don't mind adding my 3400mAh 2 cell battery pack w/usb converter which gives around 3 hrs of high mode runtime. I do wish the Hangovers output didn't degrade 25% in the first 15 min. but still has more throw than any other helmet weight self-contained light I've tried and if I need the extra output all I have to do is turn the light off and right back on again and it returns to it startup output levels (kind of like double clicking to a boost mode). Word of warning, each time you do this it takes about 6 min. of your high mode runtime (higher output requires more energy) so plan accordingly, especially if your not using an external power source. Another thing I've noticed is the Hangover works far better in combo with the OB Trail on the bars than any other light I've tried it with so far (OB Road or 2nd Hangover, Ravemen LR800, Ceco 1000, Cygolite Ranger 1400).
Mole


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

MRMOLE said:


> ...Med. setting is OK but I think this is a much better helmet light using the high beam only....I do wish the Hangovers output didn't degrade 25% in the first 15 min...


I 100% agree with this statement!!

Most of my rides are in the 2ish hour range but, now that I know the strengths and weaknesses of this light, if I'm heading out on a ride where I know I'm only going to need it for about an hour it sure would be really nice to have a mode such that I could turn it on high and have it stay on high until it dies rather than prematurely stepping down in an attempt to achieve a runtime I don't necessarily need.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Can confirm this adapter works with the outbound and the supplied USB cord.

https://a.aliexpress.com/e39MilzA


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Favorite bar light combo for the Hangover?*



I've tried several different lights as a bar combo with the Hangover and so far the OB Focal Trail is my favorite. Curious what others are using and how they rate the compatibility?
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*Riding with a powerbank*



Needed to get some good saddle time in last night and wanted to take the Hangover even though little dirt was involved (so bar mounted). 34 mi. route planned meant the internal battery wasn't going to be enough so got my first extended ride with an external power source (Ravepower 10000mAh powerbank). Operated perfectly as expected and was nice not to have to worry about using the high mode too much to conserve battery power levels. 2.4A powerbank output was enough to do the whole ride with between 25 and 50% of the powerbanks capacity left and the internal battery still fully charged at the end of the ride.
Mole


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

MRMOLE, curious...why bar mount for dirt?

I did yet another ride w/ the Hangover tonight. I was lazy and didn't recharge, so I figured I'd have capacity issues (but could limp home w/ my dyno driven light). While cruising through some twisty, icy, singletrack, the Hangover dropped from high to medium on it's own. Not a real pleasant change at speed. I guess I'd prefer a gradual dimming rather than a sudden drop in output, but it was a self-imposed issue due to not charging.


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

MRMOLE said:


> I've tried several different lights as a bar combo with the Hangover and so far the OB Focal Trail is my favorite. Curious what others are using and how they rate the compatibility?
> Mole


I don't have many different lights to test these things but I have been using the Hangover on my helmet with the Outbound Focal Trail edition on the bars and I love it. The beam patterns and output are fantastic, especially when both lights are on high mode. I feel no deficit compared to daylight riding.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

First ride two nights ago. Here was my impressions:

- I heard the whining when it turned on and was really discouraged by this. However, once on the ride, I never noticed it.
- I just used a sticky mount to the top of my helmet. The range of motion of the swivel was perfect and man I loved the broad beam coverage. I paired it with a niterider 1600 (I think?) on the bars and honestly, I felt I could've rode anything with both on their brightest settings.
- I rode for almost an hour on max brightness in pretty chilly conditions (for NorCal, hah ~34F). I never saw any evidence of reduce brightness. 
- I LOVED that my helmet didn't seem to get "skewed" from the weight. I couldn't even tell the light was there honestly as my helmet never slid down or to the side due to the weight. I think my placement helped as well as I made sure it was at the apex and centered on the helmet by wearing the helmet and having my wife mark dead center with a marker.

Obviously this was n=1. More testing required, and I don't mind that


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## richard1hammond (Sep 18, 2019)

I got out for my first fat bike snow ride on the trails yesterday after work, finished at dusk first time using the lights Overhang and Trail. Made a little video of my ride second half's with the lights on if you want to check the spread! I was very pleased helped follow the trails in the snow! 

South March Highlands - Kanata Jan 2020 - Fat Bike 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hibo3 (Aug 30, 2019)

Got the light at Christmas. I'm impressed with the design and size. Implementation was below expectations - a divot in the moulding and the first LED over moulded. 

My intention has always been to bar mount the Hangover so modified a Topeak ridecase mount.

Photos show the divot, Hangover mounted in conjunction with a Lupine Neo.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

For those who may do a search on this thread in the future for run times here are a couple more real life data points to consider before you make your purchase. I did two rides with my Hangover this week. For both rides the temp was in the mid to low 20's F.

The first ride I started with it set on high, unfortunately I didn't note the time when it dropped down to medium (I'll try to get that next time) but I hit my lap button when it dropped to low and that was at 48 minutes.

The second ride I started with the light set on medium and when I hit my lap button when it dropped down to low my timer was at 1 hour and 50 minutes.

I don't find the light to be useable for trail riding on low so on both rides I swapped it out for my backup light and consequently I don't have any data for how much longer it is capable of running on low.


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## blip01 (May 31, 2017)

Like the Hangover overall. Build quality is great with the exception of that wonky USB port cover.

Beam profile is excellent. Amount of light on high is plenty for fast trail riding. I always pair a helmet light and bar light.

Runtime... Like others, a bit disappointed. Medium is ok, but I would prefer a smooth ramp down of output instead of the steps.

Tested running the light with an Anker 10,000mah battery bank and supplied USB cable. Was still going strong on high at 3.5 hours. Should take care of any night ride I'll ever do if I toss that in my backpack. Will probably just attach 2-cell battery to my helmet for normal rides to avoid the step down to medium.

Time lapse at 10 second intervals.






Anker PowerCore 10000, One of The Smallest and Lightest 10000mAh External Batteries, Ultra-Compact Portable Charger, High-Speed Charging Technology Power Bank for Iphone, Samsung Galaxy and More https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0194WDVHI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_rttlEbFKQ63ZE


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Another few rides with the hangover, one hiccup. Dropped down to low after 35 minutes, despite starting with a full charge. Hopefully just a random blip of weirdness...


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

baker said:


> Another few rides with the hangover, one hiccup. Dropped down to low after 35 minutes, despite starting with a full charge. Hopefully just a random blip of weirdness...


The Achilles heel of this light is definitely the run time. It seems like the common solution is to get a USB power bank and strap that to the helmet or run a wire to a pack.

That defeats the whole purpose of this light.

That said, I love the output and beam. I would definitely buy a similar light with the same output if it had a second cell or user replaceable cells.


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## Rolekl (Dec 1, 2017)

sptimmy43 said:


> That said, I love the output and beam. I would definitely buy a similar light with the same output if it had a second cell or user replaceable cells.


Yeah, I'd like to buy this light too, with user replacable cells, preferably with the ability to run either 18650 and 21700 cells.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Hey guys. Time for an update. Been laying low as we work out the kinks and make the fixes required to make the Hangover what we wanted. As we've mentioned before several weeks ago, we understand now that we were definitely wrong in how we presented the runtime data and such. Because of that, we've updated our software.

First thing, *the hum is fixed*. As verified by several people since I can't personally hear it due to my hard-of-hearing-ness-thingy.

Second thing, updated the USB door to be a harder silicone instead of the softer TPU. We may continue to make small tweaks to the physical shape, but for now this is a quick fix that lets the door return shut much faster. The TPU was molded in with the overmold to help reduce the costs, but they were able to do a gate shutoff and run several thousand with an 80A silicone for us. So that's being implemented on any new orders.

Third thing. Here is how the new updated software works compared to the old one:

1. There are 4 modes now, Adaptive, High, Medium, and Low

2. Adaptive is the more traditional setting that is found on every bike light and what "high" was before. A ramp down in power that's hard to notice as your eyes adapt to the darkness. We decided to make it a slower ramp that goes to about 1.8 hours before kicking down to low for an extra 30 minutes of runtime. For those that want to set it and forget it, this is your mode. We just aren't going to mess around and try to explain how every manufacture uses "high" and doesn't have an actual solid high output. Going to write out an engineering blog with more charts and comparisons for the future.

3. High, Medium and Low are now solid straight performance modes that have no ramp down or throttling.

4. Modified the daytime flash to get more runtime out of it.

Here is the runtime chart that is going to be posted on the website, as well as on the updated instruction card. We want customers to know exactly what to expect. As this clearly was a big mistake we made early on.










One slight difference is that I prefer to show the runtime chart in terms of perceived brightness instead of lumens or lux as those are linear measurements, and we perceived light in an exponential way.

Here is a chart of the Hangover solid High, and Adaptive mode as compared to a lot of other lights in terms of output vs time. Everything normalized to be just 100% to 0% output, doesn't matter the lumens/lux/etc. Just to show the shaping of the runtime chart. We'll be putting together some webpages comparing the beam pattern, peak lux, perceived output vs time, and a few other comparisons for the major brands that one might cross-shop, but for now, here's a quick chart.










SO! For those of you that feel like you absolutely need the updated software and hum fix. Please email me, [email protected] with the subject "Hangover Exchange". I've got a limited number of lights I can get built up over the next week or two until I'm out of batteries. Those will be arriving in about 2-3 weeks. Just let me know your order number, and best address to ship to. There will be a new hangover, along with the return label for the old one. If we don't receive the light within 2-3 weeks we'll have to charge you full price for the new Hangover... just as a forewarning.

We'll be taking the old Hangovers, updating them and putting it into our demo fleet for future customers to try out when we start trying to travel to more events.

We are all signed up for the 24 Hours of Old Pueblo and will have demo lights on hand, along with a shiny new tent. Both myself and Tom "Danger" Place will be there all weekend hanging out and talking lighting. Hopefully, we'll see some of you there!

I appreciate your patience on these changes. It actually ended up being more complicated then you'd think to modify things and validate, and why I just kept silent on social media and here. I wanted to make sure we got things right before I can start pushing advertising and stuff again.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Outbound said:


> Hey guys. Time for an update. Been laying low as we work out the kinks and make the fixes required to make the Hangover what we wanted. As we've mentioned before several weeks ago, we understand now that we were definitely wrong in how we presented the runtime data and such. Because of that, we've updated our software.
> 
> First thing, *the hum is fixed*. As verified by several people since I can't personally hear it due to my hard-of-hearing-ness-thingy.
> 
> ...


Awesome! Done and thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks for the update.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

mbmb65 said:


> Awesome! Done and thanks!


Please don't quote a whole lengthy post (you can even edit the old one), just take the few lines from the original post that you refer to... that makes it easier for others to follow the thread! Thanks!



Outbound said:


> [....]Because of that, we've updated our software.[...]
> Third thing. Here is how the new updated software works compared to the old one:
> 1. There are 4 modes now, Adaptive, High, Medium, and Low
> [....]
> ...


Matt, how about finally *implementing a software update for the focal series*, which allows the same performance as described in "3." for the Hangover? Or at least please add a mode, that allows to switch off that battery saving mode... That is a bit overdue, even if there were not so many harsh complains 

You should also post that runtime graph on the product page, since you know changed the product description.


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

Can the people who don't care for the upgraded USB cover install the software themselves? 
As someone from Europe, it will be quite costly to send the light back and forward just for a software update and unnecessary USB cover upgrade.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Zayphod said:


> As someone from Europe, it will be quite costly to send the light back and forward just for a software update and unnecessary USB cover upgrade.


it seems that shipping is without cost for US customers:


Outbound said:


> SO! For those of you that feel like you absolutely need the updated software and hum fix. Please email me, [email protected] with the subject "Hangover Exchange".
> [....] There will be a new hangover, along with the return label for the old one.


So the question is whether that offer applies for overseas shipping aswell...


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Awesome news Matt on the fix for the hum and the battery door.

Does the new software mean that if i start my ride in high and happen to go longer than an hour then it drops to low that I can’t then go to medium? Once it drops to low is that all I will have left to make it out of the woods etc? I want to be sure I understand the nodes before sending in the light. 

Other question is can we send in the light((s) to exchange for one that has the fix for the hum and the battery door but leave the current software the way it is?


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

cue003 said:


> Awesome news Matt on the fix for the hum and the battery door.
> 
> Does the new software mean that if i start my ride in high and happen to go longer than an hour then it drops to low that I can't then go to medium? Once it drops to low is that all I will have left to make it out of the woods etc? I want to be sure I understand the nodes before sending in the light.
> 
> Other question is can we send in the light((s) to exchange for one that has the fix for the hum and the battery door but leave the current software the way it is?


The "Adaptive mode" on the new software is the old high, but without the harsh stepdowns that everyone interpreted as the "end of high" instead of noticing that it was still more output at a longer runtime than anything else in the class. But yes, if you defaulted to High at the start of a ride instead of adaptive, then you'd run out in a little over an hour and then drop to low to get you out of the woods.

By default when it turns on, it will go to Adaptive as that is what most people will use, and it will have the typical steady ramp that's hardly noticeable by our eyes. We just had enough complaints about not being able to override, or not having a true steady-high that we just decided to make it as solid as possible. This helps with those that do downhill stuff and want to just run on low or medium on a climb up, but then have a true solid high that doesn't diminish on their 20 minute downhill run.

On the flip side, Adaptive is for those that just jump on their bike and start pedalling with no real hard climbs or anything, and just want almost 2 hours of runtime that's not interupted by any hard jumps in power or anything.

Medium is also just a steady constant that pushes to almost 3 hours.

Of course these all are just approximate and did a lot of testing this time around and data collection, as well as a lot of tweaking. That's why it took almost a month. Runtime may vary based on temperature, battery age, etc. But this is averaged runtime. Some people might get more.

Can't have the hum fix without the new software.

Also can't update the software on your own, has to come to the shop and the board put on our programming stand.

International customers don't have to worry, I'll eat the cost of shipping and the return, just like domestic. This isn't going to be cheap for me to fix, but I know our reputation lies in how well our products perform, and it's clear now this did not ship meeting customer expectations so I'm working to make it right before I can ramp up advertising and work with bike shops. I want to make sure everything is corrected and everyone is happy.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

biking_tg said:


> Please don't quote a whole lengthy post (you can even edit the old one), just take the few lines from the original post that you refer to... that makes it easier for others to follow the thread! Thanks!
> .


Umm, I was referring to the entire post. Thanks for monitoring the internet though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

How do I find my order number?


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Outbound said:


> Hey guys. Time for an update. Been laying low as we work out the kinks and make the fixes required to make the Hangover what we wanted. As we've mentioned before several weeks ago, we understand now that we were definitely wrong in how we presented the runtime data and such. Because of that, we've updated our software.
> 
> First thing, *the hum is fixed*. As verified by several people since I can't personally hear it due to my hard-of-hearing-ness-thingy.
> 
> ...


PERFECT! Exactly what I'm looking for. Don't care about the hum or the cover. Just the run time for me. I like the option of running a second battery on the helmet and having max power for the entire ride. Or, run it on Medium for the majority of the ride and then crank it to Hi for the quick downhill blasts. I also use this light for splitboarding at night. Our DH runs take about 15 minutes, so the ability to run full blast for a couple of runs is da bomb. It will be interesting to see if the new adaptive mode is enough. The current ramp down does feel a little wonky when running a bar light that ramps down w/o steps. The last few night rides I couldn't get it to were I wanted it to be and end up relying on my bar light too much.

A couple of questions:
- When running in adaptive mode is it better to leave the light on during stops or is it better to shut it off and on? Last night I shut it off and on a bunch and I ran out of light completely before 2 hours. I'm assuming when powering the light back on it re-starts the ramp down causing it to use more power. 
- If I run the light down to almost nothing and then I plug an external battery pack in what should I expect with the new software? I ask this because that's exactly what I did last night and I found the light would boot up in Hi and then ramp to Lo quickly and then power off. I let it sit/charge for about 5 minutes and then I could only get it to boot up in Lo.


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## useport80 (Mar 6, 2008)

just sent you an email. thanks for updating the light!


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback Matt. One additional question. The updated software will still be able to take advantage of usb-c external battery pack if needed to extend the runtimes in any of the specified modes, correct?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

woodyak said:


> Last night I shut it off and on a bunch and I ran out of light completely before 2 hours. I'm assuming when powering the light back on it re-starts the ramp down causing it to use more power.
> -


That's exactly what happens. Overall output degrades about 25% in the first 15 min. and then stabilizes to the first step down point at a little over an hour. Powering down and back on again will restart that cycle at initial power up levels. Tracking the output levels and doing an off/on every 15 min. shortened the high mode duration from 61 min. to 48 min.
Mole


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> That's exactly what happens. Overall output degrades about 25% in the first 15 min. and then stabilizes to the first step down point at a little over an hour. Powering down and back on again will restart that cycle at initial power up levels. Tracking the output levels and doing an off/on every 15 min. shortened the high mode duration from 61 min. to 48 min.
> Mole


Ah, this may explain why I had a really short runtime last week. I was switching off (and running just a bar light) and then back on, thinking it would extend my runtime, but didn't understand what was going on in detail.

Thanks!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Sounds like "adaptive" is for those that turn the light on and leave it on. I don't know anyone that rides that way. I constantly cut my lights off and back on. 

-Garry


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## icycle (Apr 20, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> That's exactly what happens. Overall output degrades about 25% in the first 15 min. and then stabilizes to the first step down point at a little over an hour. Powering down and back on again will restart that cycle at initial power up levels. Tracking the output levels and doing an off/on every 15 min. shortened the high mode duration from 61 min. to 48 min.
> Mole


Thanks Mole, do you think this also applies to exiting adaptive mode for another, say low (at stops or climbs), and then re-entering adaptive mode, all without turning the light off?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

icycle said:


> Thanks Mole, do you think this also applies to exiting adaptive mode for another, say low (at stops or climbs), and then re-entering adaptive mode, all without turning the light off?


I don't know for sure since I don't have the programming upgrade (and don't plan on getting it) but my guess would be no. On the original Hangovers just changing modes would not restart the ramping sequence, the light had to be shut off and restarted to do that.
Mole


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

garrybunk said:


> Sounds like "adaptive" is for those that turn the light on and leave it on. I don't know anyone that rides that way. I constantly cut my lights off and back on.
> 
> -Garry


Why do you turn your light off and on so frequently?

Once we roll out of the parking lot, unless someone has a mechanical, the crew I ride with isn't stopping for a long enough time to turn your light off and back on.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Stahr_Nut said:


> Why do you turn your light off and on so frequently?
> 
> Once we roll out of the parking lot, unless someone has a mechanical, the crew I ride with isn't stopping for a long enough time to turn your light off and back on.


Top of a climb, mothering up, brief hang before final descent- plenty of reasons.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Being out of shape and needing to rest is most of the reason! I usually cut my helmet light off and leave my bar light on low (bar light is on a nice large pack that'll last way longer than any ride I'll do). 

-Garry


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Stahr_Nut said:


> Why do you turn your light off and on so frequently?
> 
> Once we roll out of the parking lot, unless someone has a mechanical, the crew I ride with isn't stopping for a long enough time to turn your light off and back on.


If I'm climbing, I use as little light as possible. Which could mean no lights, one light, or both lights.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> I don't know for sure since I don't have the programming upgrade (and don't plan on getting it) but my guess would be no. On the original Hangovers just changing modes would not restart the ramping sequence, the light had to be shut off and restarted to do that.
> Mole


Mole, out of curiosity, why have you decided to not swap for the new software/no hum/better charging port cover?


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

MRMOLE said:


> I don't know for sure since I don't have the programming upgrade (and don't plan on getting it) but my guess would be no. On the original Hangovers just changing modes would not restart the ramping sequence, the light had to be shut off and restarted to do that.
> Mole


Mole, a bit OT, but does the Focal Series show the same behaviour in the adaptve mode (i.e. if you switch from adaptive to a different mode and then back to adapative, is the light then as bright in adaptive as before or does it start at the beginning of the ramp)? did you ever check this with your luxmeter?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

biking_tg said:


> Mole, a bit OT, but does the Focal Series show the same behaviour in the adaptve mode (i.e. if you switch from adaptive to a different mode and then back to adapative, is the light then as bright in adaptive as before or does it start at the beginning of the ramp)? did you ever check this with your luxmeter?


I've not checked this on the focal series lights, only measured time to step-down in high, not adaptive since adaptive is supposed to ramp down gradually to conserve battery energy. I actually don't recall ever using the adaptive mode which is one of the reasons I'm not interested in the Hangover program upgrade. To be clear, the Hangover's ramp down characteristic is unaffected by switching modes and requires turning the light off and on again to restart the ramping at start up output levels. Also all this testing was done using my light-meter.
Mole


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

mbmb65 said:


> If I'm climbing, I use as little light as possible. Which could mean no lights, one light, or both lights.


Same here. We have some big climbs here that require little to no light, then some big descents where full-power is really nice to have. Lots of up and down, not a lot of flat or gently rolling terrain here.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

baker said:


> Same here. We have some big climbs here that require little to no light, then some big descents where full-power is really nice to have. Lots of up and down, not a lot of flat or gently rolling terrain here.


I get it, I get it.... I should have used an emoji in my original response to garrybunk. It was supposed to be a tongue in cheek response to someone who couldn't seem to understand how others don't ride the same way they do.

All we have here is twisty gently rolling terrain so we very rarely stop during a ride and want our lights on high full-time for as long as they'll run.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

cue003 said:


> At the pre-order price I will agree. I think for many the limitations become much harder to swallow at the now price of $150.


Now that days are getting longer a nice 100g light would be perfect for that last hour or so.... DST starts Mar8.

Can't wait for V2.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

@Matt, I know you are head down busy but I would like to get some answers before requesting that my 2 lights be “upgraded” to fix the hum, charging door, lighting modes etc. 

1) will plugin in an external battery pack still work with the new modes and give longer runtimes in each mode including the adaptive mode? I don’t see why it won’t but just want to be sure and set my expectations accordingly. 

2) do you have any charts showcasing how runtime and output is changed when plugging in external batteries?

3) I have 2 lights. If I chose can I only request one light to be replaced instead of both? 

Thanks


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

Outbound said:


> Hey guys. Time for an update. Been laying low as we work out the kinks and make the fixes required to make the Hangover what we wanted. As we've mentioned before several weeks ago, we understand now that we were definitely wrong in how we presented the runtime data and such. Because of that, we've updated our software.
> 
> First thing, *the hum is fixed*. As verified by several people since I can't personally hear it due to my hard-of-hearing-ness-thingy.
> 
> ...


Thanks Matt! It is support like this that separates great companies from everyone else. You have earned my loyalty as a customer for as long as you are making lights!

Oh, and I left the entire quote for the enjoyment of the internet police!:eekster:


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

cue003 said:


> @Matt, I know you are head down busy but I would like to get some answers before requesting that my 2 lights be "upgraded" to fix the hum, charging door, lighting modes etc.
> 
> 1) will plugin in an external battery pack still work with the new modes and give longer runtimes in each mode including the adaptive mode? I don't see why it won't but just want to be sure and set my expectations accordingly.
> 
> ...


1. Plugin battery still works. We updated the instructions to mention specifically what kind of battery packs work best to keep up with the drain on high. Saying works with "ANY" battery pack definitely opened up a pandoras box given the range of battery pack quality. Basically any pack that can output at least 2.4A is good to go.

2. Part of the instruction manual suggests that if you plan to use a battery pack, use it from the start of the ride. Because what's happening is that the battery pack is charging the internal battery while in use. So if you run the light out completely and plug in the battery pack, it's starting to charge the internal battery but the light is still trying to draw power. So won't be able to use it in a higher mode. But if you leave it plugged in from the start, the 2.4A battery pack will keep up enough to keep the internal battery topped off for as long as it lasts.

3. Yep, no problem.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

I have gotten everyone's emails and inputted in the ordering system.

Have all the lights built and stuff, but have been waiting on some boxes to arrive. Instead of shipping in the pouches trying to use small boxes to make the return process easier.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Outbound said:


> I have gotten everyone's emails and inputted in the ordering system.
> 
> Have all the lights built and stuff, but have been waiting on some boxes to arrive. Instead of shipping in the pouches trying to use small boxes to make the return process easier.


Hey Matt

I've been unable to figure out my order number. How can I get an exchange started?


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## ryderjo (Oct 7, 2017)

*Hacking a dim mode*

Matt - Any chance you could share the details set up for reprogramming the light? Maybe you want to keep that information proprietary, but I would love to try hacking it in order to have a super dim mode for using around camp at the end of the day.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

mestapho said:


> Hey Matt
> 
> I've been unable to figure out my order number. How can I get an exchange started?


Find your emails from Outbound Lighting with subject "Your order has been delivered". That is how I was able to track mine down.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

cue003 said:


> Find your emails from Outbound Lighting with subject "Your order has been delivered". That is how I was able to track mine down.


I deleted my emails after it was delivered.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

baker said:


> Same here. We have some big climbs here that require little to no light, then some big descents where full-power is really nice to have. Lots of up and down, not a lot of flat or gently rolling terrain here.


Sounds familiar. It's not unusual to climb for well over an hour, sometimes longer. I'm usually as dim as possible on the way up, and as bright as possible on the way down. I just use my trail edition on low/medium on climbs, and add the hangover on the DH. It's not a big deal, and I love the combo.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Finally had a chance to test the hangover, as someone lend me his.
A word of warning with respect to my test experience: I am NOT a hardcore mtb guy, i do have a cyclocross/gravel bike which i do use to ride on easy trails. This test was done in the woods, dead flat, small trails and big pathways. For comparison a Lupine Blika was used (in a roughly equivalent power setting to the hangover).
On runtimes and the humming everything has been said (i didn't notice the humming when riding).

I do like the beam pattern very much. It has a small, nice hotspot and an the transitions to the darker part of the beam pattern is very smooth. This makes it easy to the eyes to see a lot on th side as well. I also like that it doesn't throw so much light in the "tree tops" (when looking straight ahead), where i personally don't need the light.
Much better beam pattern than the Lupine Blika, which has a pretty sharp transition from it's bright 22° hotspot. The Blika also illuminates beyond the hotspot, however, the sharp decrease in brightness makes it much harder to see things there. Furthermore the Blika throws a lot more light in the the "tree tops"

As expected from Outbound, that beam pattern is excellently designed.
Suggestions: Release a super lightweight light head only version for use with a small 2cell external battery pack, which can be strapped on the helmet.


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Just got my Hangover 2.0 lights today. Charged them up and did a short night ride to test the new settings. Hum is gone completely. Charger gasket falls back into place. Nice, if you like that sort of thing  My ride was short, so I didn't really get a feel for adaptive mode. I stuck to analyzing things based on the new Performance Charts. I'm assuming that I'll get close to the to the listed times in my future tests. 

Running the Hangover on Helmet and Hangover on bars is a great combo and the new settings give you some flexibility. I played around with angles and settled with the helmet light aiming further down the trail than the bar light. The bar light aimed too close to the ground creates a bright spot and makes the helmet light seem dim. Once I figured out the angles I tried the different modes. Running the bar light on high felt too high. Running them both on medium was actually pretty solid and could be the go-to if you think you might have a longer ride. Running the helmet on adaptive and the bar on medium provides an excellent amount of light and will be my normal go-to. Plenty of light and if the ride goes too long my bar light will be my escape plan. Hi mode is also a great option as it produces max light. The brightness would definitely would work for me as my only light. I'll most likely do that for the shorter rides. Running the helmet on medium as the only light works decent, but I did find myself wanting more light. Adaptive mode as the only light would be interesting to try. So far I'm very impressed with the changes. I hope to get more in the next couple of weeks.

On a side note, I'm loving the flexibility of having go-pro as the mounting option. I picked up a headband mount that I used for night XC and BC splitting this weekend. It worked heads and tails better than the cheap-o battery lights and was great having max light for the downhills.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

woodyak said:


> Just got my Hangover 2.0 lights today. Charged them up and did a short night ride to test the new settings. Hum is gone completely. Charger gasket falls back into place. Nice, if you like that sort of thing  My ride was short, so I didn't really get a feel for adaptive mode. I stuck to analyzing things based on the new Performance Charts. I'm assuming that I'll get close to the to the listed times in my future tests.
> .
> .
> .
> ...


Thanks for the feedback. Did you new lights come with new instructions as Matt suggested?

I sent my email off to Matt just last week for my 2 replacement lights. Did you get confirmation that your email request was received or when the new lights shipped etc?

I'm looking forward to the replacement lights.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

cue003 said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Did you new lights come with new instructions as Matt suggested?
> 
> I sent my email off to Matt just last week for my 2 replacement lights. Did you get confirmation that your email request was received or when the new lights shipped etc?
> 
> I'm looking forward to the replacement lights.


I got an email notifying me of the shipment.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

cue003 said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Did you new lights come with new instructions as Matt suggested?
> 
> I sent my email off to Matt just last week for my 2 replacement lights. Did you get confirmation that your email request was received or when the new lights shipped etc?
> 
> I'm looking forward to the replacement lights.


I received mine today. I got a shipping notification a couple days ago. The box included a new instruction bifold and a USB charging cable. I left the cable in the box going back to Outbound- I'm fine with the original ones. I did take the new instruction manual.

There was no return shipping label in the box.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

For international customers, I am kind of SOL. I can't do return labels on international which really sucks. So if you would be able to send it back and just let me know how much the postage was I can paypal the difference.

For everyone else, I'm going to try and get as many exchanges out as I can, but it may be delayed a bit longer. My next shipment of batteries was supposed to go out weeks ago, but due to the coronavirus thing all global shipping is in total disarray. I have a huge event at the 24 Hours of Old Pueblo that I need to have some lights on hand for, or else I'm also SOL since it'll end up being a money-losing thing if I show up with just a tent and no lights. Ha.

Combine that with February and March being the slowest months for light sales, I'm feeling a bit stressed with how tight inventory has gotten and trying to balance serving previous customers while keeping enough revenue going to keep reinvesting. Really appreciate the patience! 

If anyone will be at the 24HOP I'll have some updated Hangovers on hand if you want to your exchange there.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

I’m in Montana- it only feels foreign. 

No worries- I’ll send it back on my own dime. I appreciate your time on this.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> View attachment 1300665
> 
> 
> Here's the options I currently have. Ravepower 5000mAh (cylindrical one/130g), Ravepower 10000mAh (flat one, 175g), and the 2 cell pack I normally use with my lightheads + the Magicshine usb converter (120g total). The runtime test I did a few posts back that extended the high modes total time to 2.6 hrs. was done with the 5000mAh bank. I didn't use the higher capacity powerbank because I thought it might be a bit too heavy. I've not tried the 2 cell + converter yet and am hoping it works well but will have to test and I'll post the results I get.
> Mole


External power source update. Had a chance to test the 2 cell pack last night and got 3.5 hours of high mode runtime before it stepped down to the med. mode. Considering this setup's weight and ease of mounting advantage over the powerbanks I think it's more than worth the extra cost.
Mole


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> External power source update. Had a chance to test the 2 cell pack last night and got 3.5 hours of high mode runtime before it stepped down to the med. mode. Considering this setup's weight and ease of mounting advantage over the powerbanks I think it's more than worth the extra cost.
> Mole


Sweet! For some reason, I thought it would be less efficient to use the MagicShine dongle and that it would hurt runtime. 3.5 hours out of that pack is excellent. Given that I have loads of MS compatible packs (including 2-6 cells), this will be a great option for extending the runtime of my Hangover.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

I thought I would follow up here: I received the replacement Hangover, as well; it no longer has any noise during operation, and I can boost the light for a temporary downhill, even if that is 1-1.5 hours into a run. My complaints re: the light are handily dealt with.

I did want to add, that though it is for a different light, I had an issue with my Focal--the gopro spline broke. Despite my attempting to pay for it, Matt sent me a new mount (with spare as a backup) for free. Can't complain too much about that.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

wschruba said:


> I can boost the light for a temporary downhill, even if that is 1-1.5 hours into a run..


??? Are you saying you can boost it from interactive mode or high mode (and how do you accomplish this)? Also what do you think of the light output compared to the V1 Hangover? My old eyes like the V1 Hangover in its first 10 minutes of operation a lot better than the 600ish lumen level it spends most of its high mode time in. Since all the recent charts are in output percentages and not actual figures I assumed they must have lowered the overall a little to get a flat output for similar runtimes.
Mole


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

wschruba said:


> ... I can boost the light for a temporary downhill, even if that is 1-1.5 hours into a run. My complaints re: the light are handily dealt with.
> 
> I did want to add, that though ...


You can't put that little nugget out there and not give more details. Come on man. Lol. Haha. I too am interested in knowing what you really mean and how it was accomplished with the replacement hangover.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

I'm not sure what y'all mean? My limited use of the light suggests that you can now use high mode regardless of the battery level? I can go run it down and stare at it, if you need me to.

@Mole if the light levels were lowered, I didn't notice.

*edit* for clarification: I'm not using "boost" in the sense that other light manufacturers seem to be using it (temporary very-high-mode) but in the operational case of THIS light. The old firmware, once the battery was below a certain point, it cut the mode out of the UI (ie: after riding for 1 hour on medium, I could no longer access high). This one either doesn't, or it does it so far into the runtime that it is just as well.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

wschruba said:


> I'm not sure what y'all mean? My limited use of the light suggests that you can now use high mode regardless of the battery level? I can go run it down and stare at it, if you need me to.
> 
> @Mole if the light levels were lowered, I didn't notice.
> 
> *edit* for clarification: I'm not using "boost" in the sense that other light manufacturers seem to be using it (temporary very-high-mode) but in the operational case of THIS light. The old firmware, once the battery was below a certain point, it cut the mode out of the UI (ie: after riding for 1 hour on medium, I could no longer access high). This one either doesn't, or it does it so far into the runtime that it is just as well.


Thanks! Ability to access high (whatever that actually is) is an excellent improvement, especially for those who are using a outside power source. Suspected output difference would probably be difficult to notice unless you had the lights side by side or measured them with a meter.
Mole


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> Thanks! Ability to access high (whatever that actually is) is an excellent improvement, especially for those who are using a outside power source. Suspected output difference would probably be difficult to notice unless you had the lights side by side or measured them with a meter.
> Mole


I will see if I can tell the difference to the eye when my 2x replacements show up. I suspect I am in @Matt's backlog of replacements to send out. I sent in my email in to Matt on the Feb 6th.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

cue003 said:


> I will see if I can tell the difference to the eye when my 2x replacements show up. I suspect I am in @Matt's backlog of replacements to send out. I sent in my email in to Matt on the Feb 6th.


Thanks! Missed an opportunity to meet Matt at the race this weekend since it's only about 150 mi. from where I live but still feeling a bit poorly from a surgery I had a little over a week ago. Could have checked the changes out myself but unfortunately didn't work out this time.
Mole


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

MRMOLE said:


> Also what do you think of the light output compared to the V1 Hangover? My old eyes like the V1 Hangover in its first 10 minutes of operation a lot better than the 600ish lumen level it spends most of its high mode time in. Since all the recent charts are in output percentages and not actual figures I assumed they must have lowered the overall a little to get a flat output for similar runtimes.
> Mole


I interpret those new graphs (from Post 461) and the old graph (from Post 263) in such away that the actual maximum output has not been changed:

The new "adaptive" mode shows the same dimming behavior in the first 15 min as the old "high" mode (compare last figure of post 461 with the one from 263 or your own runtime experiments), but then after the inital dimming it doesn't remain constant for a 45 mins as in V1, but gradually decreases until it drops to low roughly at the same time as "high mode V1" does. So the same runtime numbers make sense.
The "high mode V2" doesn't have any dimming and stays at the max brightness (where adaptive mode starts as well), so maybe you should think about a software upgrade


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

biking_tg said:


> I interpret those new graphs (from Post 461) and the old graph (from Post 263) in such away that the actual maximum output has not been changed:
> 
> The new "adaptive" mode shows the same dimming behavior in the first 15 min as the old "high" mode (compare last figure of post 461 with the one from 263 or your own runtime experiments), but then after the inital dimming it doesn't remain constant for a 45 mins as in V1, but gradually decreases until it drops to low roughly at the same time as "high mode V1" does. So the same runtime numbers make sense.
> The "high mode V2" doesn't have any dimming and stays at the max brightness (where adaptive mode starts as well), so maybe you should think about a software upgrade


If all that works out it will be great. I still can't make sense of all the charts information without a reduction in the maximum output or a increase in battery capacity. The bike shop manager I lent my extra Hangover to used it in the race Matt was at and signed his shop up to be a dealer so I should eventually have access to a V2 model to test. Till then we'll just see what others on this thread think of the upgrade. It will probably be better for some but not for all.
Mole


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Peak output has not changed between the two programs. Just that we now have that solid straight-up output with zero throttling on the high mode, and then the adaptive follows the same strategy as everyone else's "high" where it throttles down slowly.

Had some amazing feedback at the 24HOP race this weekend. People were blown away by the Hangover and no one reported noticing the throttling on adaptive. I stuffed two checked bags with literally as many lights as I could, putting me totally out of stock, and returned home with two empty suitcases. Our Trail demos could have gone better but had to use non-OL battery packs of unknown quality since the shipments got delayed by weeks and didn't have enough on hand for demos.

Definitely going to build up our demo tent a bit more and try to do more events in the future.

As for the current Hangover exchanges. We will have to temporarily move towards the model where you'll have to send in the light, and hopefully within 2-3 days have it back to you after it's arrived. We are completely out of the batteries and it's going to be another 3-4 weeks until more arrive. So either just need to wait until the batteries arrive to have a no-downtime exchange, or be willing to send in the light and wait a bit.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Peak output has not changed between the two programs. Just that we now have that solid straight-up output with zero throttling on the high mode, and then the adaptive follows the same strategy as everyone else's "high" where it throttles down slowly.
> 
> Had some amazing feedback at the 24HOP race this weekend. People were blown away by the Hangover and no one reported noticing the throttling on adaptive. I stuffed two checked bags with literally as many lights as I could, putting me totally out of stock, and returned home with two empty suitcases. Our Trail demos could have gone better but had to use non-OL battery packs of unknown quality since the shipments got delayed by weeks and didn't have enough on hand for demos.
> 
> ...


I have no problems waiting until batteries show up to minimize downtime. I assume I am already in the queue for replacement so waiting is cool.

Glad to see that the Hangover was a success at the 24HOP. Keep it up.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Peak output has not changed between the two programs. Just that we now have that solid straight-up output with zero throttling on the high mode, and then the adaptive follows the same strategy as everyone else's "high" where it throttles down slowly.


Thanks for clarifying, happy to be wrong about this. If output in high is the same for V1 & V2 definitely interested in the upgrade!



> Had some amazing feedback at the 24HOP race this weekend.


Glad to hear you and Eric (Graymatter) worked out a deal so he can carry your lights in his shop. He used one of my Hangover's in the race and seemed totally impressed with it's performance. Wish things had worked out where I could have come to the race and said Hi in person but maybe next year.
Mole


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

MRMOLE said:


> External power source update. Had a chance to test the 2 cell pack last night and got 3.5 hours of high mode runtime before it stepped down to the med. mode. Considering this setup's weight and ease of mounting advantage over the powerbanks I think it's more than worth the extra cost.
> Mole


Mole, how water-resistant is the USB-C plug?
Wondering if this would work for full overnight / multi night adventure racing with external packs?
It would probably be running on medium most of the time.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Mole, how water-resistant is the USB-C plug?
> Wondering if this would work for full overnight / multi night adventure racing with external packs?
> It would probably be running on medium most of the time.


I can't remember the last time I rode in the rain and am pretty new to outdoor usb usage so unfortunately don't have an answer for you. 
Mole


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Wondering if this would work for *full overnight / multi night* adventure racing with external packs?
> It would probably be running on medium most of the time.


I wouldn't recommend it, at least not out of the box.

My experience with external battery packs on the Hangover is 1) it does not draw enough current from some external battery packs to not rely on the internal battery; 2) if you hot-swap between external battery packs (i.e. the Hangover is running while you disconnect one battery pack and plug in another), the Hangover might reduce the current draw to <500mA (USB default), which will drain the internal battery even faster; and 3) if the internal battery dies -regardless of how much charge is left in your external pack- the Hangover will not step-down the light mode, it will simply shut off...if the lamp is bar-mounted, you will see the LED indicators give you the warning that your lamp is about to shut off; if the Hangover is mounted on your helmet, you will have no warning, it will just shut off.

To address this, I've removed the internal battery and modified the Hangover for a cable; I've also modified my USB powerbanks for a direct lead to the internal battery, so I bypass the boost-regulator of the powerbank and the USB-C circuit of the Hangover altogether (which should reduce losses in efficiency, and not limit run-time by whatever voltage/current cut-off is built into the powerbank). I've also removed 2 of the 6 LED dies from the Hangover to reduce the current draw and extend the run-time.




































YMMV. I purchased the Hangover knowing I'd be using it way outside of its designed purpose.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Nice. Couldn't you have just used 3.7v battery packs with water resistant connectors rather than modding USB charger battery packs? Asking as I have a ton of those.



VegasSingleSpeed said:


> I wouldn't recommend it, at least not out of the box.
> 
> My experience with external battery packs on the Hangover is 1) it does not draw enough current from some external battery packs to not rely on the internal battery; 2) if you hot-swap between external battery packs (i.e. the Hangover is running while you disconnect one battery pack and plug in another), the Hangover might reduce the current draw to <500mA (USB default), which will drain the internal battery even faster; and 3) if the internal battery dies -regardless of how much charge is left in your external pack- the Hangover will not step-down the light mode, it will simply shut off...if the lamp is bar-mounted, you will see the LED indicators give you the warning that your lamp is about to shut off; if the Hangover is mounted on your helmet, you will have no warning, it will just shut off.
> 
> ...


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Nice. Couldn't you have just used 3.7v battery packs with water resistant connectors rather than modding USB charger battery packs? Asking as I have a ton of those.


Absolutely. However, I didn't have any 3.7v packs when I started this "project". 
I acquired the powerbanks with the intent to use USB until I discovered the peculiar behavior described above (i.e. it's what I had to work with moving forward). The Anker 5000mAh packs I modified are very inexpensive, come with their own USB charger, and can power other devices through their USB output. And, my plan is to charge each pack from my dynamo charging circuit, and reduce total powerbanks carried to just two of those Anker packs (but I've had issues with my dynamo charger during my last two races to work this out...I'm hoping the third time's the charm).

The tried and true solution for multi-night lighting is still a dedicated dynamo-powered set-up, like KLite or Sinewave Beacon. In a side-by-side comparison of a KLite Bikepacker Ultra (MTB version) and my 4-LED bodged Hangover while rolling at 13-15mph, the Hangover had the brighter beam on high and seemed comparable on medium largely because the beam pattern is that much better...so, that's my incentive to work this problem out.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> The Anker 5000mAh packs I modified are very inexpensive, come with their own USB charger, and can power other devices through their USB output.


Are they really 5000mAh? Is that a 21700 Battery?


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

patski said:


> Are they really 5000mAh? Is that a 21700 Battery?


Maybe and yes. The modified Hangover (4 LEDs) pulls around 750mA from the battery on medium and my run-time on a single battery exceeds 6 hours (I haven't yet run one down until the lamp steps down to low, or shuts off). So, its close enough (for now...unknown cell quality and longevity is a concern).


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> Maybe and yes. The modified Hangover (4 LEDs) pulls around 750mA from the battery on medium and my run-time on a single battery exceeds 6 hours (I haven't yet run one down until the lamp steps down to low, or shuts off). So, its close enough (for now...unknown cell quality and longevity is a concern).


from FMA Battery: https://tinyurl.com/ugjbfkv


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

@VegasSingleSpeed...

Nice mod! If I used a Hangover, I'd likely do similar. IMO, it is no biggie to drop a battery into a jersey or jacket pocket. Much better than adding extra weight to the helmet or stopping to swap batteries or other fooling around. 

I will say that trying to carry a battery in a hydration pack is a PITA though. Tried that a couple times before deciding it's not working for me. 99% of the time I put the battery in a jersey pocket as I almost never change that. Jacket may come off or go back on during a ride, but not the jersey.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Vancbiker said:


> 99% of the time I put the battery in a jersey pocket as I almost never change that. Jacket may come off or go back on during a ride, but not the jersey.


Yes, Jersey is handier, I use the "flat pack" for jersey pockets, https://tinyurl.com/tsdkdv8


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

patski said:


> Yes, Jersey is handier, I use the "flat pack" for jersey pockets,


Yep, I use a flat 4 cell holder than can run with 1 to 4 cells. Fits nicely in a jersey pocket. The more typical "box" 4 cell pack would not be as good.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Ok, i now see two different voltages and mah being referenced in here to use with the hangover. can anyone shed a little light as to which is better and why? The external 2 cell packs that are 3.7v and 6800mah or the 7.4v 3400mah?

Thx


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

cue003 said:


> Ok, i now see two different voltages and mah being referenced in here to use with the hangover. can anyone shed a little light as to which is better and why? The external 2 cell packs that are 3.7v and 6800mah or the 7.4v 3400mah?
> 
> Thx


You might want to clarify the context in which you plan to use your Hangover, as some of the information thrown about in the last few posts amidst this thread-derail are not specific to the Hangover at all, and may not necessarily be the answer to your question; i.e. *just run a USB powerbank and ignore the rest of this nonsense.*

1) Direct connection of an external battery to the Hangover (as I documented above) should* use a 3.7v pack. At the very least, you'd be able to retain the ability to charge the 3.7v pack through the Hangover via USB. 2) I think MRMOLE was using a 7.4v pack with a USB converter (Magicshine?) to power his Hangover through the USB input. 3) The watt-hrs are the same between those 2 packs.

*I haven't looked up the spec's of the voltage regulator/boost regulator used in the Hangover. FWIW, in my discussions with another manufacturer regarding using a 7.4v pack instead of USB, they expressed concern with voltages of 7-8+V feeding into their voltage regulator; I don't know if this is also the case for the Hangover, but if you're not capable of figuring this out yourself, then reevaluate what you plan to do and why.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> 1) Direct connection of an external battery to the Hangover (as I documented above) should* use a 3.7v pack. At the very least, you'd be able to retain the ability to charge the 3.7v pack through the Hangover via USB. 2) I think MRMOLE was using a 7.4v pack with a USB converter (Magicshine?) to power his Hangover through the USB input. 3) The watt-hrs are the same between those 2 packs.


That's my setup (7.4v/3400 mAh w/MS converter). Converter is rated @ 5v/2amp charging rate (common for powerbanks) for use with all Magicshine batteries which are 7.4 volt so should be safe used in this configuration.
Mole


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## ryderjo (Oct 7, 2017)

Outbound said:


> Peak output has not changed between the two programs. Just that we now have that solid straight-up output with zero throttling on the high mode, and then the adaptive follows the same strategy as everyone else's "high" where it throttles down slowly.
> 
> Had some amazing feedback at the 24HOP race this weekend. People were blown away by the Hangover and no one reported noticing the throttling on adaptive. I stuffed two checked bags with literally as many lights as I could, putting me totally out of stock, and returned home with two empty suitcases. Our Trail demos could have gone better but had to use non-OL battery packs of unknown quality since the shipments got delayed by weeks and didn't have enough on hand for demos.
> 
> ...


Hey, for those who want to send the light in now regardless of downtime, where should we ship it too? Is it alright to ship it in a bubble envelope to keep shipping costs down? Thanks!


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

ryderjo said:


> Hey, for those who want to send the light in now regardless of downtime, where should we ship it too? Is it alright to ship it in a bubble envelope to keep shipping costs down? Thanks!


Send me an email, [email protected] with some of your info, and I can setup a return label for you to have it shipped to Tom to get updated and sent back.

We are still about 2-3 weeks away from being back to full strength with Hangover supply.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Alrighty, we are back, for as long as COVID doesn't keep us in total lockdown.

Trying to get back through the log of exchange units, I really appreciate your patience on those!

In other news. Tom "Danger" Place is officially joining OL as a full-time employee and partner starting soon. He's done an incredible job helping elevate the brand and our quality in the last year, and really excited to bring him on. What this means is that we'll be able to start doing more demos nationwide as we will be putting him on the road in a van hitting up bike shops and trying to get to more events. He'll also be working more closely with our US-based suppliers during production ramp-ups by being on the ground and in the shops with them. I also hope to be more responsive to customer service, better planning, and overall work together to build OL up even more with new products, better inventory, and an increase in our already high quality!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Alrighty, we are back, for as long as COVID doesn't keep us in total lockdown.
> 
> Trying to get back through the log of exchange units, I really appreciate your patience on those!
> 
> In other news. Tom "Danger" Place is officially joining OL as a full-time employee and partner starting soon. He's done an incredible job helping elevate the brand and our quality in the last year, and really excited to bring him on. What this means is that we'll be able to start doing more demos nationwide as we will be putting him on the road in a van hitting up bike shops and trying to get to more events. He'll also be working more closely with our US-based suppliers during production ramp-ups by being on the ground and in the shops with them. I also hope to be more responsive to customer service, better planning, and overall work together to build OL up even more with new products, better inventory, and an increase in our already high quality!


Matt,
Got my shipping confirmation for the Hangover upgrade today (Thanks!!!). Looking forward to testing the new layout as the described changes should make it a much better light for me. That plus a new bike and warmer/dryer weather should give me some incentive to visit the trails a bit more (hopefully). Cool news about Tom and your new demo plans. Especially nice to hear some good news in these troubled times.
Mole


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

Are the updates big changes, is it worth it?
Thanks in advance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

I bought this go pro mount so I can use the light during the summer months on my handlebars at the end of our ride.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

MTBMILES said:


> Are the updates big changes, is it worth it?


in Post 461 OL described the changes. Mostly programming/mode changes


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MTBMILES said:


> Are the updates big changes, is it worth it?
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My version 2 Hangover is due to arrive Tuesday (per USPS tracking) so will post what I think. Will run tests on the light for runtimes etc.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Just a couple simple questions for OB.* Judging from the new graph if someone buys a new Hangover and say runs high ( not adaptive high ) for 20-30 minutes and then runs medium the rest of the time; Would one be able to get two hours of run time out of the lamp? *What is the new listed output in lumen for high and medium (?).*..AND, anyway you can provide beam shots of the new high and medium modes. Lastly, can you get these with NW (4500K ) beam tint emitters?


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Peculiarity of the new UI, after having used it for a bit:

"Adaptive" is now a PART of the UI, rather than a turn-it-on-and-it's-there thing. That means that to get to medium from low, you have to page *3* times, rather than the previous 2. Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but it's there, nonetheless. Not a deal breaker, in light of the rest of the stuff with the light, but something to be aware of if you are getting a V2.

I'm otherwise quite happy with the revised version, after having used it for a month-or-so of riding.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Cat-man-do said:


> What is the new listed output in lumen for high and medium (?)


Those informations are already available, but quite scattered over a few posts from OB/OL (#216, #461, #468, #516). Since OB is not a fan of lumen numbers i combined those information:
*tldr;* High 650-700 lm, Medium 290-310 lm

In detail:
Interpreting the graphs of Post 461 from OB/OL(runtime graph vs light comparison graph) and combining the information of those, one reads that adaptive "v2" end at the same output level as medium mode, which is ~45% of the (physical) max light output.

Since the peak output wasn't changed from software v1 to v2 (see Post #516), one can get the max. lumens from Post #216:


Outbound said:


> [...]Our actual out-the-front lumens [...] will probably measure [in an integrating sphere] something like 650-700 lumens[...]


So medium mode is around 290-310 lm (MrMole measured 250-300 lm, see post #204)



Cat-man-do said:


> [...]if one runs high ( not adaptive high ) for 20-30 minutes and then runs medium the rest of the time; Would one be able to get two hours of run time out of the lamp


extrapolated from graph in Post #461:
20 min high: drains close to 1/3 of the capacity --> leaves 2/3 (of 2:45 h. max runtime) on med. mode --> combined runtime 2:10 h
30 min high mode: uses short of 1/2 of the capacity --> combined runtime just a few minutes short of 2 hr (117 min) (before stepdown to low would occur)


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

biking_tg said:


> So medium mode is around 290-310 lm (MrMole measured 250-300 lm, see post #204)


Just to clarify those where initial readings, when I did my regular setup for runtime testing I was getting 330ish lumens in the med. mode. Here's a repost of a chart I did showing the med. and high modes + how the V1 Hangover performed hooked up to a 5000mAh powerbank in the high mode.

High + Powerbank = Black
High = Green
Med. = Red








Personally I'm only concerned in how the V2 performs in the high mode with my 2 cell pack as that is how I will use it 90% of the time.
Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

biking_tg said:


> Those informations are already available, but quite scattered over a few posts from OB/OL (#216, #461, #468, #516). Since OB is not a fan of lumen numbers i combined those information:
> *tldr;* High 650-700 lm, Medium 290-310 lm....


*Thanks b'ntg* Yes, I know some of that information was somewhere in the thread. However it is quite a long thread and thought it easier to just ask the question of OB rather than take a chance of reading through a prolonged thread for maybe an hour and perhaps still not get a accurate answer.

Yes, I remember that OB was not forthcoming when if came to questions about lumen output. For the record I take issue with that stance. I'm of the opinion if you aren't willing to talk "Lumen" you aren't willing to give the whole skinny on just how usable the lamp is. While "lumen" isn't everything it is one of the major factors that most potential buyers consider when purchasing a bike lamp. That being a fact I would expect a person who has gone through so much effort to create such a carefully crafted design should have no problem discussing the luminous output of each of the available modes. Also with the changes in the newer version I thought maybe the outputs might have also been tweeked.



biking_tg said:


> .... In detail:
> Interpreting the graphs of Post 461 from OB/OL(runtime graph vs light comparison graph) and combining the information of those, one reads that adaptive "v2" end at the same output level as medium mode, which is ~45% of the (physical) max light output.
> 
> Since the peak output wasn't changed from software v1 to v2 (see Post #516), one can get the max. lumens from Post #216:
> ...


If what you are saying is accurate I don't think I would consider buying one of these unless the medium mode was at least 400-450 lumen and the standard high somewhere around 600-700 lumen. A lot would depend on the beam pattern though and how those lumen are used. I have a feeling I wouldn't like the current medium mode if indeed is only 300 lumen. Okay I suppose for climbing a slow climb but otherwise useless in generally flat areas where your speed may climb and thus require more light. If medium mode lets me see fairly well to ~ 100 ft. I'd be okay with it. If not I can't use it except on high and high I expect to let me see to somewhere around 150 ft. ( keep in mind I'm assuming I'd be using a bar lamp as well in combo ( in medium mode most of the time )


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## icycle (Apr 20, 2004)

While everyone's mileage may vary, I'm extremely happy with the new Hangover programming logic and light output, especially mated to the Trail on bars. Lack of light is simply not an issue, not for the fastest, most technical downhills where I live in New England. 

I run Trail in adaptive typically, boost to high when I need it, and run the Hangover on adaptive or medium typically, also boosting to high when needed.

My biggest challenge is getting the balance of the light on the helmet such that the light doesn't cause the helmet to slip down and rest on my riding glasses. This is more a function of where it's mounted on the helmet and the secure attachment of the helmet to my head. Looking at different helmets to help here.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Lumen output is around 800-900 on high, medium about half of that, but since our eyes perceive lighting differently than a linear measurement, it feels more like "70% as bright".

However, put our light side by side to a 1200 lumen Niterider Lumina and you'll see why we really don't care about talking lumens. We can trick our eyes into thinking things are brighter than they actually are with balanced and engineered lighting, so why not focus on that instead of getting caught up in trying to advertise to people who are shopping on lumens which is exactly who we don't want buying our lights to be honest.

The goal for us is always going to be doing more with less. It's what we do in the automotive side, and it's what we should focus on in the biking side too.

Lumen output did not change with the updates. Only the UI and the hum, simply a reflash of the programming which is why we are able to afford doing the exchanges. I'd be losing my ass if we had to scrap all the boards that came back.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Outbound said:


> Lumen output is around 800-900 on high, medium about half of that, but since our eyes perceive lighting differently than a linear measurement, it feels more like "70% as bright".
> 
> However, put our light side by side to a 1200 lumen Niterider Lumina and you'll see why we really don't care about talking lumens. We can trick our eyes into thinking things are brighter than they actually are with balanced and engineered lighting, so why not focus on that instead of getting caught up in trying to advertise to people who are shopping on lumens which is exactly who we don't want buying our lights to be honest.
> 
> ...


Well, I won't go on too much into this so lets just say some of the people who have bought the Hangover ( not me ) seem to claim other luminous output that seems to be less than what you are claiming. Not my place to call anyone a liar so I'll not do that unless I actually own the product myself ( which I don't ).

Anyway, I might be interested in buying one of the Hangovers...perhaps. Of course if the Chinese made torch I ordered a month ago finally shows up and I'm very pleased with the beam pattern and tint ( 4000K ), then probably not. That said if you decide to offer the Hangover with a NW option I might be interested in buying one. (...especially if the torch I ordered never arrives. )

One last passing comment; Many people are not happy with the Chinese government right now due to their slowness in addressing the outbreak of the C-virus ( within China ) with the rest of the world. ( not to mention a couple other good reasons as well having to do with holding back on medical personal protective equipment and pharmaceuticals related to the global virus pandemic. For good or bad this fact gives sellers and manufactures within the USA a unique opportunity to sell more of their products that are locally manufactured in the USA. I hope this enables you to sell more lamps.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Cat-man-do said:


> Well, I won't go on too much into this so lets just say some of the people who have bought the Hangover ( not me ) seem to claim other luminous output that seems to be less than what you are claiming. Not my place to call anyone a liar so I'll not do that unless I actually own the product myself ( which I don't ).


Yes, just stating that is our lumen output based on voltage, power draw, etc at the chip and what we targeted with our simulations that match our planned output targets. We still have the same peak brightness as the Lumina 1200 (whether someone wants to say they don't put out 1200 or not is up to them) but a wider overall field of lighting that doesn't have a harsh edge.

So while OTF lumens might be less, or whatever someone is measuring in a homemade sphere or doing to try and back-calculate lumen output, just wanted to reiterate that honestly, we don't worry much about it. Lumens never has been, and never will be part of the marketing strategy or planned design.

We have access to all the tools to measure lumen output (3 meter wide integrating spheres for example), but more interested in goniophotometer results since that tells us if our beam pattern is hitting the designed targets, and if not what we can do to modify it. Part of Tom coming onboard full time soon is going to be having him doing more testing with a goniophotometer to compare lights and start to try and give prospective customers some beam pattern data to compare different lights, or at least better explain our lighting philosophy.

-----------

Regarding COVID, sales have noticeably slowed down given the fact that it's extremely uncertain times, and not surprisingly thinking about buying a bike light isn't exactly high on people's thought list. It's also been quite a challenge recently balancing running the business, getting to the warehouse to build and ship lights, as well as being a stay-at-home-dad to my two year old all of a sudden after the daycares shut down.

So I really appreciate everyone's patience. I know I have neglected some phone calls since what 2 year old actually gives you space to have a conversation on the phone? Ha. But we are still going strong, good cash reserves to make it through this slow period and still on track for some new stuff coming out this fall. No pre-orders this time though!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Outbound said:


> ....Regarding COVID, sales have noticeably slowed down given the fact that it's extremely uncertain times, and not surprisingly thinking about buying a bike light isn't exactly high on people's thought list. It's also been quite a challenge recently balancing running the business, getting to the warehouse to build and ship lights, as well as being a stay-at-home-dad to my two year old all of a sudden after the daycares shut down.
> 
> So I really appreciate everyone's patience. I know I have neglected some phone calls since what 2 year old actually gives you space to have a conversation on the phone? Ha. But we are still going strong, good cash reserves to make it through this slow period and still on track for some new stuff coming out this fall. No pre-orders this time though!


Off topic but I thought this worth mentioning. I have a feeling in the future we will be handling virus outbreaks very differently. Saw this article on WebMd about a type of light called "Far UV-C ". Early testing shows promise. If it proves to work well no doubt they won't be able to keep these types of lights on the shelves and likely every hospital and Doctors office will have them built in to their offices along with the normal over-head lights.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Outbound said:


> Regarding COVID, sales have noticeably slowed down given the fact that it's extremely uncertain times, and not surprisingly thinking about buying a bike light isn't exactly high on people's thought list. [snip] So I really appreciate everyone's patience. I know I have neglected some phone calls since what 2 year old actually gives you space to have a conversation on the phone?


Mine shipped yesterday, thanks and stay safe!


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

I received my Hangover & Trail Light today, both high quality and super fast shipping, not to mention Matt answered all of my questions quickly.

The only thing I am disappointed in so far is the charger port cover on the Hangover WILL NOT STAY CLOSED. Sent him an email, haven't heard back, not sure how it would be fixed anyways but super annoying.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

blaklabl said:


> I received my Hangover & Trail Light today, both high quality and super fast shipping, not to mention Matt answered all of my questions quickly.
> 
> The only thing I am disappointed in so far is the charger port cover on the Hangover WILL NOT STAY CLOSED. Sent him an email, haven't heard back, not sure how it would be fixed anyways but super annoying.


At all? There are several posts, some pages back, about this. The cover eventually reflexes closed, but it takes a while.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

wschruba said:


> At all? There are several posts, some pages back, about this. The cover eventually reflexes closed, but it takes a while.


No, not at all.

Can't wait to go back through 500+ posts to figure it out.


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## MatchBC (Oct 27, 2019)

blaklabl said:


> No, not at all.
> 
> Can't wait to go back through 500+ posts to figure it out.


I'll save you the trouble: There is nothing to figure out.

The V1 did not close up well. I think Matt had said the improved version changed the flap material to something that would restore a bit better. Maybe you received one that didn't get the newer door.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

blaklabl said:


> No, not at all.
> Can't wait to go back through 500+ posts to figure it out.


If you use a (mobile) computer (and not a mobile phone), "CTRL+F" is your friend for searching terms, it takes a few minutes to find the posts.
as said before, not much too figure out. Outbound stated quite recently again, that the door is only a dust protection, as the USB-C Port itself is waterproof.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

The Hangover's convenience factor has proved to be much more useful to me than I would have guessed. For longer mainly off-road rides I still prefer something like a GW XS or XP3 since I'd be using a separate battery for whatever was on the helmet. Thing is most of my rides I only use the helmet light for a small portion of the ride and the hour+ runtime in high/no external battery Hangover option works great for that. On my 50mi. cross town excursions I still don't notice the additional weight of the Hangover on my helmet plus it doubles as a backup light (that doesn't take up any pack space and is always immediately available) and I don't have to concern myself with mounting/bar size compatibility considering not all my backup lights work with both 31.8 and 35mm bars. Still think the Hangover works best off-road with the Focal Trail but have had good luck comboing it with the inexpensive ($39) Ravemen LR800 (merlincycles.com) too. Nice floody beam with a good bit more throw than the Flocal Trail + it's tiny. Still requires an external battery for longer rides but has the charge on the fly via usb option.
Mole


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> The Hangover's convenience factor has proved to be much more useful to me than I would have guessed. For longer mainly off-road rides I still prefer something like a GW XS or XP3 since I'd be using a separate battery for whatever was on the helmet. Thing is most of my rides I only use the helmet light for a small portion of the ride and the hour+ runtime in high/no external battery Hangover option works great for that. On my 50mi. cross town excursions I still don't notice the additional weight of the Hangover on my helmet plus it doubles as a backup light (that doesn't take up any pack space and is always immediately available) and I don't have to concern myself with mounting/bar size compatibility considering not all my backup lights work with both 31.8 and 35mm bars. Still think the Hangover works best off-road with the Focal Trail but have had good luck comboing it with the inexpensive ($39) Ravemen LR800 (merlincycles.com) too. Nice floody beam with a good bit more throw than the Flocal Trail + it's tiny. Still requires an external battery for longer rides but has the charge on the fly via usb option.


I like the Hangover so far - I'm just disappointed in the run time, even on adaptive mode. I guess I need some suggestions on small external battery to use on my helmet to extend the range without using too much weight.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

blaklabl said:


> I like the Hangover so far - I'm just disappointed in the run time, even on adaptive mode. I guess I need some suggestions on small external battery to use on my helmet to extend the range without using too much weight.


Check out post #505 in this thread that shows the different powerbank/batteries I've tried. The blue battery came from ebay but requires a usb adapter (shown in picture) and is what I prefer but this setup costs roughly 2x what you can get a powerbank for. Post 430 also shows a powerbank I'd probably try because it's smaller than the two Ravepower units I have though I can't comment on its quality. Most of the 5000 - 10000mAh powerbanks cost less than $20 so not a big investment that will more than double your runtime. Matt may have some good suggestions so I'd check with him too.
Mole


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

We've seen the most bang/buck/reliable units from Anker. Any of the 2A+ units work great. Can't really comment on others as we haven't tested them.


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## Odd Kiwi (Aug 21, 2016)

Subscribed


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Just ordered a hangover, anyone got an adaptor for a niterider mount? I kinda like the strap mount so i can use different helmet. Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## jchan417 (Apr 19, 2018)

Daxdagr8t said:


> Just ordered a hangover, anyone got an adaptor for a niterider mount? I kinda like the strap mount so i can use different helmet. Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I think the niterider helmet strap mount is attached via gopro style mount - should be able to just use that with the hangover's gopro style mount.


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## BigBo (Oct 4, 2010)

Has this been upgraded since v1? Is there still the high pitch noise? Is this the best bang for your buck self contained light there is? I just want a plug and play all in one and no hassle.

I ride with a big battery and light on the bars but still need headlight for the singletrack. I hate wires going down my back. Most night rides are 50% single 50% gravel/paved road, so I need to be able to easily turn it on and off on the helmet. I don't need a big run time since I can get by with the bar light if I need to, but a helmet light is so much better.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Yep, been fixed a long time ago. Also the USB door problem is totally fixed. Software is pretty much totally solid now that for our next large production run we are just pre-programming all the chips instead of programming them after assembly.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Also the USB door problem is totally fixed.


Not totally fixed, mine still hangs down after the plug is removed...


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

blaklabl said:


> Not totally fixed, mine still hangs down after the plug is removed...


Did you get yours within the last two weeks with the new door that has a small cutout on it?

The usb port itself is entirely waterproof, so this has just been a cosmetic issue that I've been trying to rectify.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

No, I got mine in April when you assured me it wasn’t an issue any more. But alas, it still hangs down when the charger is unplugged. So no, I guess it’s not the corrected version.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

jchan417 said:


> I think the niterider helmet strap mount is attached via gopro style mount - should be able to just use that with the hangover's gopro style mount.


Bought the go pro helmet mount, works pretty good

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## BretB (Sep 3, 2020)

*Almost there*

Really impressed with optics engineering and sounds like the light quality is really great, but runtime is concerning. I'd be all over this light if could run FULL high for about 2 hours. I'd happily accept more weight or external battery. I prioritize function over form/weight. Internal battery and 100g was too constraining for the light I want. Sure can run power pack but then have another thing to charge and I shouldn't have to do this for $125 light. I know OL says their benchmark was NR Lumina and agree they beat that, but should shoot for best lighting and runtime. Hoping V2 is closer to what I want.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Real close to getting this. Feel free to give me a nudge. Here's my situation: hate wires. Typically run a bar mount (Raveman 1200) and a head light. Don't need more than 2hrs. Annoyed by heavy headlights that pushes down on my helmet.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

Outbound said:


> We've seen the most bang/buck/reliable units from Anker. Any of the 2A+ units work great. Can't really comment on others as we haven't tested them.


Just pulled the trigger on the DH Package, but I definitely want to get an external battery to allow adaptive mode to run for 2.5 hours. I see the instructions recommend something with a minimum 2.4A output which is QC 3.0-compliant. Above, Anker is indicated to have been tested.

I'd really like to get one of the smaller Anker powerbanks - something like the Astro E1 5200mAh or the PowerCore 5000. However, both of these state that they do not support Qualcomm Quick Charge. Does that mean that I am out of luck with these smaller batteries from Anker? If so, can anyone recommend something commercially available in a similar size that they have used successfully?


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## Abunchahicks (Mar 12, 2019)

SqueakyWheel73 said:


> Just pulled the trigger on the DH Package, but I definitely want to get an external battery to allow adaptive mode to run for 2.5 hours. I see the instructions recommend something with a minimum 2.4A output which is QC 3.0-compliant. Above, Anker is indicated to have been tested.
> 
> I'd really like to get one of the smaller Anker powerbanks - something like the Astro E1 5200mAh or the PowerCore 5000. However, both of these state that they do not support Qualcomm Quick Charge. Does that mean that I am out of luck with these smaller batteries from Anker? If so, can anyone recommend something commercially available in a similar size that they have used successfully?


I'm using the Powercore 5000 that you listed with zero issues. Allows me to get well over 2.5 hours in adaptive mode.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

Abunchahicks said:


> I'm using the Powercore 5000 that you listed with zero issues. Allows me to get well over 2.5 hours in adaptive mode.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Perfect - thanks for the info! Are you connecting the Powercore to your Hangover light at the start of the ride then?


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

SqueakyWheel73 said:


> Perfect - thanks for the info! Are you connecting the Powercore to your Hangover light at the start of the ride then?


Outbound stated somewhere in this thread that you have to connect the powerbank when the internal battery is still properly charged.
Once the internal battery falls below certain voltages / states of charge, you cannot access all modes anymore. if you connect the powerbank at this stage, you can only use those modes which are allowed then by the internal battery's state of charge

The powerbank will at high output levels only reduce the drain on the internal battery, therefore it will be discharged at slower rates, allowing usage of the higher modes for a longer time.


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## Abunchahicks (Mar 12, 2019)

SqueakyWheel73 said:


> Perfect - thanks for the info! Are you connecting the Powercore to your Hangover light at the start of the ride then?


Yes I connect to the power bank at the beginning of the ride when the light is at full charge.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Carl Mega said:


> Real close to getting this. Feel free to give me a nudge. Here's my situation: hate wires. Typically run a bar mount (Raveman 1200) and a head light. Don't need more than 2hrs. Annoyed by heavy headlights that pushes down on my helmet.


Grab a hangover, and keep an eye out for an announcement in a few weeks about that wireless bar mounted light.  All existing OL customers will get a healthy discount to use!


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

biking_tg said:


> Outbound stated somewhere in this thread that you have to connect the powerbank when the internal battery is still properly charged.
> Once the internal battery falls below certain voltages / states of charge, you cannot access all modes anymore. if you connect the powerbank at this stage, you can only use those modes which are allowed then by the internal battery's state of charge


Yep, have this right.

The powerbank charges the battery, so if the battery is low enough that can't go to the higher modes already, and then the powerbank is plugged in, will be still be in a reduced state until there is enough juice in the battery to get back to full power.

So honestly, if you are planning on riding longer than the internal battery will allow, just plug in the powerbank to the light from the start of the ride and you'll never notice a stepdown until the powerbank is depleted, and then the internal battery is depleted.


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

Outbound said:


> Yep, have this right.
> 
> The powerbank charges the battery, so if the battery is low enough that can't go to the higher modes already, and then the powerbank is plugged in, will be still be in a reduced state until there is enough juice in the battery to get back to full power.
> 
> So honestly, if you are planning on riding longer than the internal battery will allow, just plug in the powerbank to the light from the start of the ride and you'll never notice a stepdown until the powerbank is depleted, and then the internal battery is depleted.


I appreciate the feedback from everyone that replied. I just got the e-mail that my lights are shipping today - hopefully I'll be able to give them a go on the trails next week!


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## Rocky Mtn (Jan 19, 2014)

Hey outbound - question for you......as a result of this thread and some reads arch I am considering ordering a set up from you. My issue is I am from Canada. Do you have a canadian distributor of your product?

Also from what I can see on your website, you ship to Canada for about $25. Do you have many canadian customers? If so, have you heard anything from them about being hit with duties, customs fees etc.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Rocky Mtn said:


> Hey outbound - question for you......as a result of this thread and some reads arch I am considering ordering a set up from you. My issue is I am from Canada. Do you have a canadian distributor of your product?
> 
> Also from what I can see on your website, you ship to Canada for about $25. Do you have many canadian customers? If so, have you heard anything from them about being hit with duties, customs fees etc.


The only country we've had trouble shipping to is the UK. Between duties, shipping costs, etc. it's outrageously expensive and no one ends up happy.

However for Canadian customers we ship via USPS with no issues. We have a flat $25 shipping fee, most of the time our cost is a bit higher than that but it's not terrible. Since it ships through the post Canadian customers aren't hit with duties like with UPS or FedEx.

------------------------

We are currently scrambling to try and spin up more PCBA boards from our supplier. For once we are actually ahead on hard parts like batteries, castings, etc. but some items like the waterproof USB port had unexpectedly long lead times. Our excellent PCBA shop out in Arizona is doing a great job working to try and grab as many parts as we can and will be shipping me boards as they come through so we can try and avoid going out of stock.

Seems everytime I plan ahead and think "okay, we'll do 50% more sales than last year at this time", or even "we'll do 100% more sales" ya'll keep blowing me out of the water and running me out of stock. :lol:


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## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

Outbound said:


> Hey guys. Time for an update. Been laying low as we work out the kinks and make the fixes required to make the Hangover what we wanted. As we've mentioned before several weeks ago, we understand now that we were definitely wrong in how we presented the runtime data and such. Because of that, we've updated our software.
> 
> SO! For those of you that feel like you absolutely need the updated software and hum fix. Please email me, [email protected] with the subject "Hangover Exchange". I've got a limited number of lights I can get built up over the next week or two until I'm out of batteries. Those will be arriving in about 2-3 weeks. Just let me know your order number, and best address to ship to. There will be a new hangover, along with the return label for the old one. If we don't receive the light within 2-3 weeks we'll have to charge you full price for the new Hangover... just as a forewarning.
> 
> I appreciate your patience on these changes. It actually ended up being more complicated then you'd think to modify things and validate, and why I just kept silent on social media and here. I wanted to make sure we got things right before I can start pushing advertising and stuff again.


Matt, are you still offering to upgrade original batch Hangover lights? If so I'm fine with sending mine in to rework it rather than exchange. I sent you a couple emails but haven't heard back.


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

For folks running these on helmets like the Bell Sixer with built-in gopro mounts further back, do you find you have enough adjustment range to get the beam where you want it? 

It's time for a new helmet and trying to see if I should focus on ones with built-in mounts.


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

TechniKal said:


> For folks running these on helmets like the Bell Sixer with built-in gopro mounts further back, do you find you have enough adjustment range to get the beam where you want it?
> 
> It's time for a new helmet and trying to see if I should focus on ones with built-in mounts.


I run mine on a Giro helmet with an integrated mount that is pretty far back. I have no issues getting the light adjusted where I want it.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

This thread is TLDR....however, I am a very satisfied customer of Outbound Lighting Trail Edition since last winter. I have always paired my bar-mounted light with a helmet-mounted self contained flashlight that uses a single 18650 battery. I have several spare 18650's that I cycle through and bring with as backup since my helmet light gets about 1-1.5 hours runtime on full power. The ability to swap batteries while on the ride makes this a very good system for me, I don't even have to remove my helmet to swap batteries. The Hangover seems great based on description and my experience with the Trail Edition; however, I would definitely want the battery to be field-swappable. I personally don't find the ability to be plug-in chargeable while using to be attractive or useful. I'd rather just change the battery with the fully-charged spare.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

Another positive long term review here. I have quite a few rides now under my belt with it and no complaints!


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

TechniKal said:


> For folks running these on helmets like the Bell Sixer with built-in gopro mounts further back, do you find you have enough adjustment range to get the beam where you want it?
> 
> It's time for a new helmet and trying to see if I should focus on ones with built-in mounts.


I bought the go pro helmet mount strap so I can use it all of my helmets, works great with a1,a2,speedframe and proframe.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## Rocky Mtn (Jan 19, 2014)

Hi Outbound:

Today I rec'd my set up and a couple of quick comments:

- i am in Canada. It took about two weeks or so for my shipment to arrive; however, the most important part was that I was not hit with any duty or import fees. The cost of the set up was based on the price, shipping and then my conversion from $Can to $US

- initial thought is that this looks like a well made unit. the handlebar light comes in a really nice case

- i am going to have to look at the helmet light set up as i don't want to attach it via the sticky tape. Based on the comments above, it seems there are some options folks have fabricated

- will be a little bit before i have a chance to use it, so the important review will have to wait for a bit.



Outbound said:


> The only country we've had trouble shipping to is the UK. Between duties, shipping costs, etc. it's outrageously expensive and no one ends up happy.
> 
> However for Canadian customers we ship via USPS with no issues. We have a flat $25 shipping fee, most of the time our cost is a bit higher than that but it's not terrible. Since it ships through the post Canadian customers aren't hit with duties like with UPS or FedEx.
> 
> ...


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

Rocky Mtn said:


> i am going to have to look at the helmet light set up as i don't want to attach it via the sticky tape. Based on the comments above, it seems there are some options folks have fabricated.


This is what the poster below referenced for helmet strap mount option. Thinking about getting one myself.


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## Rocky Mtn (Jan 19, 2014)

^ Thanks Squeaky......i had a quick look in my cycling tickle trunk and it appears that i have a helmet strap from another set up that will work


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## dberndt (Apr 17, 2010)

I thought I'd add my two cents to this thread. I've had my Trail Edition for a few months now. It took a while for it to grow on me but it has. I'm pretty satisfied. 

But I'm still looking for a helmet light. I'm not sure what everyone else's use case is. But I'd suggest that Outbound stop listing to those yahoos that are doing it wrong. I'm not sure what sort of polling is taking place. But self contained lights? Self contained helmet lights especially. No thanks. 

Winter is coming and daylight savings time. It'll be dark at 5:00pm here, every day, for months. A single cell'd helmet light as has floated around here and in other threads, just isn't going to get the job done on a 2 hour ride. Maybe it'd be ok if you were doing a shorter ride or by yourself. But if your buddy is behind you with an external pack light or two putting out 1000+ lumens each for 2+ hours, well that end of ride 100 lumens or whatever it is, isn't going to do you much good. I typically ride with 3-4 other people at a time, so having a similar amount of light as everyone else in the group is pretty important.

Please abandon the self contained idea, or at least put it aside until ultra tiny nuclear reactors are a reality, and focus on what we really need, a helmet light with a whole bunch of lumens and a smart beam pattern, maybe a NW tint would be nice too. No other gimmicks required. There are no external battery helmet lights doing what the Focus series has done for bar light optics, why wouldn't you want to be the first one? Why join the masses of self contained lights that aren't bright enough or don't last long enough?

That's my seemingly contrarian two cents. As I said above, I own a trail edition and like it and I'm genuinely looking for a helmet light that meets my requirements and want you to make one...


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## SqueakyWheel73 (Sep 21, 2018)

dberndt said:


> I thought I'd add my two cents to this thread. I've had my Trail Edition for a few months now. It took a while for it to grow on me but it has. I'm pretty satisfied.
> 
> But I'm still looking for a helmet light. I'm not sure what everyone else's use case is. But I'd suggest that Outbound stop listing to those yahoos that are doing it wrong. I'm not sure what sort of polling is taking place. But self contained lights? Self contained helmet lights especially. No thanks.
> 
> ...


Since the Hangover has pass through charging from an external battery, it seems like the best of both worlds on that front. Use it as a self-container headlamp if you want, and use it with the external battery if you need to.

Being a new owner of their lights I do have to agree with your sentiment that the Trail bar light is the gem of their lighting system. The carpet of light it throws is impressive and is a real improvement over lights I remember using years ago. I've only used the Hangover/Trail combination for two rides now and my initial impression of the Hangover is that I am impressed but maybe not totally blown away. It has plenty of light for 99% of the night riding that I am doing. On the very fastest trails I felt like a little more throw from the headlamp would have been appreciated. But to be fair, I might not have had the lamp angled out quite far enough either.

Overall, I am happy with the performance of these lights. If OL came out with a brighter, non-self-contained light I'm not sure I would jump. I think the Hangover is plenty sufficient for my purposes and I like the flexibility of using the external power source for longer run times only when needed.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

dberndt said:


> That's my seemingly contrarian two cents. As I said above, I own a trail edition and like it and I'm genuinely looking for a helmet light that meets my requirements and want you to make one...


Mostly because we listened to what our customers were demanding, and so far it's proven to work out. Hangover outsells the Trail easily 2:1 and has proven to be very very popular. Also with what Squeaky pointed out, Hangover allows for external battery packs so can extend that ride time if you need it, but it is still light enough that when mounted on a helmet it's hardly noticeable.

Now would we like to do just a plain lighthead that's super lightweight and powerful with an external battery pack? Sure. But we have different priorities as we scale up the business. We have a lot of demand for a self contained bar light so that's what is coming next. Then demand for a self contained road light so that's also on the ticket. Not to mention the tail light.

Because we actually design, tool, and startup all these lights ourselves it just takes time. We don't have big private equity money, don't have massive million dollar business loans to try and spin up a ton of different lights, or purchase stuff already made from a supplier with a big team of developers, so we just are marching along making lights in what the market is demanding. Keep in mind that anytime we startup a new light, we are spending north of $80-100k in tooling, shipping, prototypes, and then another $50-100k in the initial startup. So it really isn't as easy as whipping up a light and having it made.

You'd be surprised how many emails we get of "I really want to get your lights but I am looking for xyz" along with facebook/IG comments. We listen to them all and try to figure out where we can capitalize next. We are in this for the long haul.

Circling back to the lighthead idea, one of the things we know we need to focus on is some sort of eBike trail option that's powerful and no battery. That's where we could potentially offer that in a variant that uses a USB connection for a semi-universal battery pack solution if we can crack the complexities of USB Power Delivery (USB PD) since that offers a lot higher amperage for higher power draw systems. Right now USB QC limits us to around 2 amps, which we would have to work around for a powerful system. USB PD allows up to 5A which is more than enough.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Outbound;15018141[... said:


> Then demand for a self contained road light so that's also on the ticket.


I'll repeat myself over and over again, but please consider to throw less light in the front of the bike and a tad more at the cut-off. That ist the single biggest weak point of your focal road (besides that step-down....). I'll be a happy guinea pig for that light if you want some feedback before production start up.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

biking_tg said:


> I'll repeat myself over and over again, but please consider to throw less light in the front of the bike and a tad more at the cut-off. That ist the single biggest weak point of your focal road (besides that step-down....). I'll be a happy guinea pig for that light if you want some feedback before production start up.


Don't worry, the beam is much improved. :thumbsup:

Still doing a lot of the initial design work and haven't even cut prototypes yet as Evo has been taking up all our time (and the massive Fall rush) but did the optical development months ago, and would tweak it constantly.

We've done a lot of client projects recently that focused on cutoff optics as we are one of the only companies out there that does freelance optical surfacing work at a reasonable price so have gotten a bunch of real-world data on what's working and how to improve. Most companies either want end-to-end control of the whole light build, or just quote an outrageous rate. We provide the actual optical surfaces that engineers can then use to cut into their models while letting them know of the specific LED location and specific LED to use.

That's actually one pretty exciting part of Outbound that goes along quietly, and you'll start seeing a lot of lighting products, or lighting integrated into other products that have our touch on them.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Outbound said:


> Don't worry, the beam is much improved. :thumbsup:
> 
> Still doing a lot of the initial design work and haven't even cut prototypes yet as Evo has been taking up all our time (and the massive Fall rush) but did the optical development months ago, and would tweak it constantly.


Well, glad to hear:thumbsup:! Just an snapshot of your video to be sure you got what i meant:








the red circle is too bright and makes it harder for the eye to see in the distance (because it's too dark there in relation to the red circle). The marked area just at the beam edge could be a bit darker (but doesn't really disturb seeing in the distance)

Here a snapshot of the SL-F, which is in that respect better (but then your focal has a much eye friendlier light color and a much wider beam in front of the bike and less sharp edges to the beam shape. I still like to use them simultaneously 











Outbound said:


> We've done a lot of client projects recently that focused on cutoff optics as we are one of the only companies out there that does freelance optical surfacing work at a reasonable price so have gotten a bunch of real-world data on what's working and how to improve. Most companies either want end-to-end control of the whole light build, or just quote an outrageous rate. We provide the actual optical surfaces that engineers can then use to cut into their models while letting them know of the specific LED location and specific LED to use.
> 
> That's actually one pretty exciting part of Outbound that goes along quietly, and you'll start seeing a lot of lighting products, or lighting integrated into other products that have our touch on them.


Sounds interesting, good for you! I know that this norwegian startup Podbike (or whatever called) wrote about employing your services.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

In contrast to the guy who doesn't want self-contained units, man I have to say this has been a very welcomed game changer for me. 

The Hangover is small, fits in the tiniest of tiny waist packs I wear. It sits in there and when I get "overly ambitious" about the available daylight I have - out it comes. Snaps in place in a second and gives plenty of light. No fuss, no irritating wires, tiny footprint. Beats the hell out of carrying an emergency head-strap backpacking headlamp or lugging around external battery packs and wires.

Sure, if you want 5hours of runtime throwing more lumens than the sun, pick something different I guess. For me, I'm just as happy, make that more happy, than when I got my self-contained bar mount light.

The future is bright.


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## dberndt (Apr 17, 2010)

SqueakyWheel73 said:


> Since the Hangover has pass through charging from an external battery, it seems like the best of both worlds on that front. Use it as a self-container headlamp if you want, and use it with the external battery if you need to.
> 
> Being a new owner of their lights I do have to agree with your sentiment that the Trail bar light is the gem of their lighting system. The carpet of light it throws is impressive and is a real improvement over lights I remember using years ago. I've only used the Hangover/Trail combination for two rides now and my initial impression of the Hangover is that I am impressed but maybe not totally blown away. It has plenty of light for 99% of the night riding that I am doing. On the very fastest trails I felt like a little more throw from the headlamp would have been appreciated. But to be fair, I might not have had the lamp angled out quite far enough either.
> 
> Overall, I am happy with the performance of these lights. If OL came out with a brighter, non-self-contained light I'm not sure I would jump. I think the Hangover is plenty sufficient for my purposes and I like the flexibility of using the external power source for longer run times only when needed.


I just don't feel the same. I guess it's nice that you're satisfied, but I'm not. I don't have a hangover so I can't say for sure. But I don't think it's the product I want external usb charger or not. I also don't have a lot of interest in a historically pretty crappy USB connection when used on a mountain bike. The traditional pack and barrel jack seem superior to me.

I also have some concerns about the power output. If USB QC is supplying the full 15watts, that's nice but it means the hangover on high is consuming sub 15 watts. I'd like to look to see more power going in and lumens coming out in my ideal light. Something with a high mode that draws more like 30 watts, say like a Gloworm XSV. Make that with a fancy optic designed for helmet mount with an external battery pack and then I'm throwing money at you.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

dberndt said:


> I just don't feel the same. I guess it's nice that you're satisfied, but I'm not. I don't have a hangover so I can't say for sure. But I don't think it's the product I want external usb charger or not. I also don't have a lot of interest in a historically pretty crappy USB connection when used on a mountain bike. The traditional pack and barrel jack seem superior to me.
> 
> I also have some concerns about the power output. If USB QC is supplying the full 15watts, that's nice but it means the hangover on high is consuming sub 15 watts. I'd like to look to see more power going in and lumens coming out in my ideal light. Something with a high mode that draws more like 30 watts, say like a Gloworm XSV. Make that with a fancy optic designed for helmet mount with an external battery pack and then I'm throwing money at you.


Unfortunately you are in the minority. 

Hangover pulls around 8-9W, which is around 800-900 lumens, but trying to explain why lumens doesn't really matter I think will fall on deaf ears, I've gone over it a lot in the past.

Most ALL of our customers are more focused on runtime and perceived brightness, so that's why we try to develop a light that feels bright thanks to the beam pattern yet lasts a very long time because we use such little lumens and power so they don't have to carry around a massive battery pack. There are tons of lights that already do this so certainly no shortage of options for your needs as you've pointed out. Gloworm, Lupine, Gemini, etc. are all there for your high power external battery needs.

That's why we set our targets on areas that we think our technical expertise can be a leg up over competitors. Beam pattern, lightweight materials, and that optical efficiency is why we targeted the $125-ish helmet mount market with hangover. What you are wanting is a different class of lights.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

I can't wait for that more powerful self-contained unit to come out. I would even be happy with a hangover with different optics for a bar mount. 

Either way I just want something USB-C rechargeable and self contained. I really like the square-ish form factor as well.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

rusty904 said:


> I can't wait for that more powerful self-contained unit to come out. I would even be happy with a hangover with different optics for a bar mount.
> 
> Either way I just want something USB-C rechargeable and self contained. I really like the square-ish form factor as well.


Someone spilled the beans via instagram-story a few months ago . It looks like a Hangover with 2 rows of LEDs. But i'm not a spoilsport, so i don't post that snapshot i took at that time


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## exabrial (Oct 24, 2020)

I was thinking about faber-cobling (AvE term if you watch his channel) together a two piece combo light from china parts... but after reading this thread and the engagement that OutboundLighting has with the community and the actual enginerding that is going into it, I'm buying. I love your story and want to support a small business!

Now... to wait for their new product to drop or go with the already acclaimed and battle-proven hangover...


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

biking_tg said:


> Someone spilled the beans via instagram-story a few months ago . It looks like a Hangover with 2 rows of LEDs. But i'm not a spoilsport, so i don't post that snapshot i took at that time


And now a little teaser on our IG and FB posts. 


__
http://instagr.am/p/CGv9A-SnQv0/


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Outbound said:


> And now a little teaser on our IG and FB posts.


You could also tease with a beamshot in a wooded area, something like in your videos about the focal trail .


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

biking_tg said:


> You could also tease with a beamshot in a wooded area, something like in your videos about the focal trail .


Well, I am now in downtown Chicago, and Tom (joining the team full-time Nov 1st!) is out in the deserts of Phoenix. So harder for me to get a beam pattern deep in the woods unlike when I lived in St. Louis and had trails 5 minutes from my house. 

However, how about this for Trail vs Evo: Note this is shot with a gopro on the ultra-crazy-wide setting just to try and capture the full beam pattern. The Trail is what everyone already knows, and Evo improves on it. No more hard separation in front, more height, smoother falloff, improved width, and higher peak intensity.

It is running about 30% more lumens, but we are using a chip that is 30% more efficient, and higher optical efficiency so are able to eek out similar runtimes despite no external battery.

Note that it is a chonker, and designed for the handelbars only. Just around 280g in weight since it has two 21700 cells inside instead of two 18650's. Still made it as light as we could.


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## Abunchahicks (Mar 12, 2019)

I’m ready, I need two and another Hangover. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

Outbound said:


> Well, I am now in downtown Chicago, and Tom (joining the team full-time Nov 1st!) is out in the deserts of Phoenix. So harder for me to get a beam pattern deep in the woods unlike when I lived in St. Louis and had trails 5 minutes from my house.
> 
> However, how about this for Trail vs Evo: Note this is shot with a gopro on the ultra-crazy-wide setting just to try and capture the full beam pattern. The Trail is what everyone already knows, and Evo improves on it. No more hard separation in front, more height, smoother falloff, improved width, and higher peak intensity.
> 
> ...


When will this drop and how do we get notified? 
Also, where can I buy another adhesive helmet mount for my hangover?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

rain164845 said:


> When will this drop and how do we get notified?
> Also, where can I buy another adhesive helmet mount for my hangover?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Probably going to open up orders Nov 1st. Coincide with the time change. No guarantees though. Orders to ship by Mid-November or earlier. Just waiting on our die castings and stuff to arrive. It'll be hard to miss. Working with pinkbike and a few other sites to launch it all at the same time.

We'll have 2000 on hand to start.

I'll have the mounts up on the site either tonight or tomorrow. Got a bunch in.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

Outbound said:


> Well, I am now in downtown Chicago, and Tom (joining the team full-time Nov 1st!) is out in the deserts of Phoenix. So harder for me to get a beam pattern deep in the woods unlike when I lived in St. Louis and had trails 5 minutes from my house.
> 
> However, how about this for Trail vs Evo: Note this is shot with a gopro on the ultra-crazy-wide setting just to try and capture the full beam pattern. The Trail is what everyone already knows, and Evo improves on it. No more hard separation in front, more height, smoother falloff, improved width, and higher peak intensity.
> 
> ...


How much dollars for the new light?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## TXrocks (Apr 22, 2014)

Nice, I need to get two more sets


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Outbound said:


> However, how about this for Trail vs Evo:


That is sufficient  thanks :thumbsup: Nice one!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Probably going to open up orders Nov 1st. Coincide with the time change. No guarantees though. Orders to ship by Mid-November or earlier.


Thanks for the heads-up! Transferring extra funds to paypal acct. When can we start asking questions?
Mole


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

MRMOLE said:


> Thanks for the heads-up! Transferring extra funds to paypal acct. When can we start asking questions?
> Mole


Once I get our pics back from our photoshoot I'll open up a new thread.

Price will be $245, but existing OL customers should get a nice discount once we launch it, and we should have plenty for black friday. :thumbsup:

We invested heavily in this new light (and mounting system) and excited to get it out there.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

Outbound said:


> Once I get our pics back from our photoshoot I'll open up a new thread.
> 
> Price will be $245, but existing OL customers should get a nice discount once we launch it, and we should have plenty for black friday. :thumbsup:
> 
> We invested heavily in this new light (and mounting system) and excited to get it out there.


I've been hounding you about this and I know it will be worth the wait. seeing those pattern shots excited me that much more.


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## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

Subscribing for more info on the Evo. I recently got a Hangover to replace my L&M Taz 1200, and love the beam pattern and weight. Now I want something with a good beam pattern and ~2,000 lumens to replace the Taz 2000 on my bars. One of the issues I have with the Taz is the long shape causes it to rotate on the bars during aggressive riding, even with the rubber strap cranked tight.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Andeh said:


> Subscribing for more info on the Evo. I recently got a Hangover to replace my L&M Taz 1200, and love the beam pattern and weight. Now I want something with a good beam pattern and ~2,000 lumens to replace the Taz 2000 on my bars. One of the issues I have with the Taz is the long shape causes it to rotate on the bars during aggressive riding, even with the rubber strap cranked tight.


Then sounds like Evo is right up your alley. 

Pushed release back a bit, I want to kill this 300+ order backlog I have right now first. Parts finally arriving this week.


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## bcfuggles (Jul 5, 2008)

*Hangover hemet mount*

I purchased the downhill package recently. The question I have regards the mount of the Hangover light. I have a Fox Drop Frame helmet that is designed with a slight ridge running down the center of the helmet. This doesn't allow the hangover flat mount to stick on flush.
Any ideas?


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

bcfuggles said:


> I purchased the downhill package recently. The question I have regards the mount of the Hangover light. I have a Fox Drop Frame helmet that is designed with a slight ridge running down the center of the helmet. This doesn't allow the hangover flat mount to stick on flush.
> Any ideas?


Generally for helmets like that, the official GoPro vented helmet mount strap is the best bet:

https://gopro.com/en/us/shop/mounts-accessories/vented-helmet-strap-mount/GVHS30.html

We've tried to source our own, and they all were really shitty, the gopro one is the best. Just make sure not to get it from Amazon as some counterfit items have been shipped under their name.

It's on our agenda in 2021 to improve the helmet mounting scheme for vented helmets and oddballs like that.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Outbound said:


> Generally for helmets like that, the official GoPro vented helmet mount strap is the best bet:
> 
> https://gopro.com/en/us/shop/mounts-accessories/vented-helmet-strap-mount/GVHS30.html
> 
> ...


I don't understand why more helmet manufacturers don't anticipate that need. Bell doesn't fit me well, but that's one advantage to their helmets.


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## TXrocks (Apr 22, 2014)

Any chance of having a couple of the new lights in hand by the 20th? We're heading to Bentonville on the 20th and want to get some night riding in. I have a trail and hangover, I might just get the kids a couple hangovers


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

The more I ride with the hangover, the more impressed I am. I ride with a "other brand" bar light (only because I already owned it) and a Hangover on my helmet. I almost always ride Adaptive mode and find I can ride easier terrain at 100% full speed, and hard technical trails at about ~75% normal speed. One thing I need to figure out is how to keep my visor from blocking part of the light pattern. I might just buy a "night riding" specific helmet and remove the visor to avoid this partial light blockage that is clear in the video.

Below is a link to some Hero8 footage on my local trails.

Some quick notes:

- Obviously the bright blown out spot in the video isn't how it looks in real life. In fact, at 17 seconds, on a sharp steep turn I was able to spot a well camo'd rattlesnake ahead of me and avoid it. (Sorry for the swearing  )

- The starting trail is the Dragon DH and this is a hard blue flow and I hit it pretty fast and was totally comfortable. Some of those corners give even solid riders pause.

- @ 2:10 is Brouhaha. This segment is STEEP and I had just finished building it two days before so had only rode it in entirety once prior but felt solid with my lighting.

- @ 4:20 is DropZone which has a sequence of jumps / drops that I wasn't sure how I would feel hitting them at night. This was my first time through at night and while the blind nature of the drops was as you can hear on the video, a wee bit "scary", I actually was comfortable with it.

Kudos to Outbound Lighting for a great product!


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## BretB (Sep 3, 2020)

Outbound said:


> However, how about this for Trail vs Evo: Note this is shot with a gopro on the ultra-crazy-wide setting just to try and capture the full beam pattern. The Trail is what everyone already knows, and Evo improves on it. No more hard separation in front, more height, smoother falloff, improved width, and higher peak intensity.
> 
> It is running about 30% more lumens, but we are using a chip that is 30% more efficient, and higher optical efficiency so are able to eek out similar runtimes despite no external battery.


@Outbound,
Any plans to update Trail with these improved chip/optics?
I am partial to a separate battery.


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## BretB (Sep 3, 2020)

Outbound said:


> However, how about this for Trail vs Evo: Note this is shot with a gopro on the ultra-crazy-wide setting just to try and capture the full beam pattern. The Trail is what everyone already knows, and Evo improves on it. No more hard separation in front, more height, smoother falloff, improved width, and higher peak intensity.
> 
> It is running about 30% more lumens, but we are using a chip that is 30% more efficient, and higher optical efficiency so are able to eek out similar runtimes despite no external battery.


Any plans to also update Trail with these improved chip/optics?
I am partial to a separate battery.


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## safetybreaks (Mar 20, 2010)

MRMOLE said:


> View attachment 1300665
> 
> 
> Here's the options I currently have. Ravepower 5000mAh (cylindrical one/130g), Ravepower 10000mAh (flat one, 175g), and the 2 cell pack I normally use with my lightheads + the Magicshine usb converter (120g total). The runtime test I did a few posts back that extended the high modes total time to 2.6 hrs. was done with the 5000mAh bank. I didn't use the higher capacity powerbank because I thought it might be a bit too heavy. I've not tried the 2 cell + converter yet and am hoping it works well but will have to test and I'll post the results I get.
> Mole


do you have any good links to either these same or equivalent 2 cell pack and usb converter?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

safetybreaks said:


> do you have any good links to either these same or equivalent 2 cell pack and usb converter?


Here you go.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MagicShine-MJ6086-Battery-to-USB-Adapter-Use-Bike-Battery-as-a-USB-Power-Bank-/141432153288

I couldn't find the particular powerbanks I have listed on Amazon any longer but here's a link to a different thread that may give you better options anyway (read post #6).

https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/power-bank-no-button-1155625.html


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

bcfuggles said:


> I purchased the downhill package recently. The question I have regards the mount of the Hangover light. I have a Fox Drop Frame helmet that is designed with a slight ridge running down the center of the helmet. This doesn't allow the hangover flat mount to stick on flush.
> Any ideas?
> 
> View attachment 1374901


I use the go pro helmet strap, works well with different kind of helmets.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

re: weird helmet mounting: you can get 3M VHB tape in several thicknesses; mount two thick-ish pieces on either side of the go pro adaptor, to make room for the channel in the middle. If it can hold body panels on cars at 100+ mph, it'll hold the light mount on your helmet. It isn't easy to remove, though.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

BretB said:


> @Outbound,
> Any plans to update Trail with these improved chip/optics?
> I am partial to a separate battery.


After we get a self contained road and tail going, we plan to circle back around to small lighthead + external battery ideas.

Pretty much feel that we need to expand the product lineup in a few key areas before we can circle back and update existing products.


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## J_Bone (Dec 14, 2014)

I can't wait for the Evo. I recently purchased the DH package and it works awesome!! I don't do a lot of night riding, but when I do I like a lot of light and these lights are perfect!! 
I was going to post on Instagram but I didn't.... So here's a couple of pictures I got from the last race director at Aravaipa rides.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Can I trade my trail light for an evo? . Rather have a self contained light. I usually carry my hangover on my helmet and niterider on the hb.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

Daxdagr8t said:


> Can I trade my trail light for an evo? . Rather have a self contained light. I usually carry my hangover on my helmet and niterider on the hb.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


I might be interested... I'm trying to wait on the evo myself though.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Daxdagr8t said:


> Can I trade my trail light for an evo? . Rather have a self contained light. I usually carry my hangover on my helmet and niterider on the hb.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


Sell it and get what you want. Now's the time!

Me and five of my riding buddies got in on the $99 Hangover pre-order deal. Four love it and since then two of us have sold ours. We both agreed something about it, either the beam pattern or color of the light, didn't fit our eyes well. But the nice thing is between Covid making cycling so popular right now and Outbound lights being trendy I was able to get $100 for mine.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

$100 for the hangover or trail edition? Only used my trail edition 2x since I own it. 

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Daxdagr8t said:


> $100 for the hangover or trail edition? Only used my trail edition 2x since I own it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


Hangover that had been used about a dozen times.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I got 2 Hangover's on the preorder deal and quickly realized that the one I was using as a bar light just wasn't going to work for me. After sending both lights back for the upgraded versions I ended up trading one (unused) to the manager of a LBS for a brand new Thompson Masterpiece seatpost. Good deal for both of us!
Mole


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Outbound said:


> After we get a self contained road and tail going, we plan to circle back around to small lighthead + external battery ideas.
> 
> Pretty much feel that we need to expand the product lineup in a few key areas before we can circle back and update existing products.


Sounds like that once mentioned road light with high beam is very far down the road... but can understand your position. No money, no R&D...


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## pokerman (Jan 22, 2006)

*One of 300+*

Hi Matt,

I'm one of the 300+ guys who placed a backorder for the DH package.
My order was placed last week so you probably haven't gotten around to shipping my order out yet.

Is there anyway to change my order for an EVO + Hangover instead?

That EVO looks AWESOME!

Thanks!


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## TXrocks (Apr 22, 2014)

That's where I'm at, I need to order another downhill kit, and one more hangover. But I want a EVO on the one of them.


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## BretB (Sep 3, 2020)

Outbound said:


> After we get a self contained road and tail going, we plan to circle back around to small lighthead + external battery ideas.
> 
> Pretty much feel that we need to expand the product lineup in a few key areas before we can circle back and update existing products.


Thank You for sharing. I totally appreciate many people like self contained lights, but question the need for "small lighthead" over upgrading Trail. My 106g helmet light (similar to trail) is totally fine and I suspect you trade some capability for size. I just don't see any need to reduce the size at 100g. I think it's best to have fewer products done 100% rather than more products at the expense of improving existing products. Just my 2c.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

BretB said:


> Thank You for sharing. I totally appreciate many people like self contained lights, but question the need for "small lighthead" over upgrading Trail. My 106g helmet light (similar to trail) is totally fine and I suspect you trade some capability for size. I just don't see any need to reduce the size at 100g. I think it's best to have fewer products done 100% rather than more products at the expense of improving existing products. Just my 2c.


Well the thing is, I designed the Trail Light almost 3.5 years ago, and have learned a lot and been improving on those lessons with each subsequent new light. There is not much we can do to Trail to improve it since it would require a whole redesign. We can't get more powerful chips because the optic is designed for a specific altilon 1x5 that is already extremely hard to source since automotive OEM's tend to use 1x4 or 1x2 chips. We have to order them almost 12 weeks ahead of time to try and get them.

Pretty much locked into the reflector shape since it hugs the casting wall so exacting, so can't modify that much either.

So really the only way to "upgrade Trail" is to introduce an entirely new lighthead. Tom and I have been having discussions lately about how we want to do future external battery packs and it's something I think I'll pose to the community here in another thread. Basically do we want to stick with the typical DC5521 connector, or potentially try to introduce USB PD as the method of powering the lights so that the lighthead can be powered by a customized, tight fitting waterproof USB-C plug so the powerbank can be used for other things, or in a pinch can use another USB powerbank to power things.... or just try and have a really nice proprietary plug similar to what NR and L&M does, though being able to have backwards compatiabiltiy would allow for existing customers to continue to use their battery packs.

Either way, pros and cons to a bunch of things that we are actively thinking about.

As for fewer products, we do agree. That is why we don't plan on having 500-650-900-1200-1800 lumen versions of the same product. However we started Outbound on the principle of developing lighting for specific applications, and customers have REALLY responded well to self contained stuff, so we want to try and develop a light for each specific application, aka self contained trail, road, external trail, road, and of course we need to think about the eBike market, which is also where the new development on external battery power lights plays well with making it do double-duty for ebike stuff.

Lots of words.


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## BretB (Sep 3, 2020)

@Outbound Thanks for the detailed response!


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

Outbound said:


> Well the thing is, I designed the Trail Light almost 3.5 years ago, and have learned a lot and been improving on those lessons with each subsequent new light. There is not much we can do to Trail to improve it since it would require a whole redesign. We can't get more powerful chips because the optic is designed for a specific altilon 1x5 that is already extremely hard to source since automotive OEM's tend to use 1x4 or 1x2 chips. We have to order them almost 12 weeks ahead of time to try and get them.
> 
> Pretty much locked into the reflector shape since it hugs the casting wall so exacting, so can't modify that much either.
> 
> ...


No to proprietary cords please, usb c so less cords to carry.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

I agree with no proprietary cords. USB-C would be preferred.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

USB-C absolutely. It needs to become ubiquitous. 

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

I agree, usb-c is the way.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## almazing (Jul 26, 2017)

What's the current lead time on the Hangover if I place an order today?


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## kwb377 (Aug 3, 2009)

almazing said:


> What's the current lead time on the Hangover if I place an order today?


I ordered one on 11/2 and received it yesterday (11/16).


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## almazing (Jul 26, 2017)

kwb377 said:


> I ordered one on 11/2 and received it yesterday (11/16).


Thanks! That's reasonable for a high demand item with low supply and accurately represents the one week waiting period posted on their website.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Just FYI guys, going live with Evo starting Friday (for real this time). They are already starting to be assembled as we speak. Will launch a new thread just like all of our other lights.


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## Bigtuna00 (Nov 9, 2020)

Where's the pre-order?!?! 

(What time Friday?)


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Bigtuna00 said:


> Where's the pre-order?!?!
> 
> (What time Friday?)


What preorder? 

We have these things being built right now, working with our PCBA supplier in Arizona to handle the bulk of the manufacturing to try and slowly ease the burden of assembly and final work on my end. Tom is out there daily working alongside them and making sure everything is on track. Part of our growth plan to scale up the manufacturing and supply side, while keeping majority of the work stateside just to be able to have our hands on it and keep quality high.

Otherwise we hope to ship at the end of the month, so in about 2 weeks.


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## Wombath (Nov 13, 2020)

Outbound said:


> Just FYI guys, going live with Evo starting Friday (for real this time). They are already starting to be assembled as we speak. Will launch a new thread just like all of our other lights.


Looking at it from this direction I guess it won't be as friendly with oncoming traffic (or anyone looking at us) as the Trail or Road 
Can't wait to see it in action!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Otherwise we hope to ship at the end of the month, so in about 2 weeks.


That's great! When can we see some specifications and curious about the "existing customer discount" you mentioned a while back and how that will work?
Mole


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Wombath said:


> Looking at it from this direction I guess it won't be as friendly with oncoming traffic (or anyone looking at us) as the Trail or Road
> Can't wait to see it in action!


My guess is they designed it for off road use and anyone oncoming traffic means that one of you is going the wrong way on the trail. 

But in all seriousness their doesn't appear to be any cutoff/ceiling for the light like the other bar lights that outbound designed. So we may have to be more cognizant of the positioning of this light similar to just bout every other light out there. Hopefully there won't be too many limes wasted into emptiness. Maybe their reflector design resolved some of that.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Just FYI guys, going live with Evo starting Friday (for real this time). They are already starting to be assembled as we speak. Will launch a new thread just like all of our other lights.


Awesome. Have you started the new thread yet?

Any more pics/specs you can share?

What was the goal of this new bar light? Any beam shots?


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

Sold!



Outbound said:


> What preorder?
> 
> We have these things being built right now, working with our PCBA supplier in Arizona to handle the bulk of the manufacturing to try and slowly ease the burden of assembly and final work on my end. Tom is out there daily working alongside them and making sure everything is on track. Part of our growth plan to scale up the manufacturing and supply side, while keeping majority of the work stateside just to be able to have our hands on it and keep quality high.
> 
> Otherwise we hope to ship at the end of the month, so in about 2 weeks.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

Outbound said:


> Just FYI guys, going live with Evo starting Friday (for real this time). They are already starting to be assembled as we speak. Will launch a new thread just like all of our other lights.


I got money in my Paypal set aside for this.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Anyone know what the typical rate is for shipping to western Canada?


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

cue003 said:


> Any beam shots?


Outbound posted beam shots in post #603 and #605 (roughly 50 posts back)



Outbound said:


> or just try and have a really nice proprietary plug similar to what NR and L&M does, though being able to have backwards compatiabiltiy would allow for existing customers to continue to use their battery packs.


Choose whatever plug suits your needs best, but if you stop using the DC5521 on newer lights, just offer a suitable adapter plug, so everyone will be happy.



Skooks said:


> Anyone know what the typical rate is for shipping to western Canada?


24 USD


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Just to keep you guys entertained as I write up the new thread and put the finishing touches on the product page....

Here is the $245 Trail Evo vs the current "top dog" it seems on here, the Monteer 6500 that retails for $400:










Just remember.... Evo has NO external batteries, lasts 2.7 hours on our adaptive mode, 1.8 hours on SOLID high, AND has that beam pattern and brightness. Oh, only weighs 275g vs the 980g that the Monteer system is. It also is incredibly thermally stable thanks to some clever engineering we did. Was tested all throughout the Arizona heat all this summer.

Here is a beam pattern pic against the Gloworm X2: 









We took the things we learned from developing the Hangover optic and went even further. The peripheral vision is unreal. If you thought Trail was wide, you'll be blown away with Evo. We are really excited about this one, and still have some more tricks up our sleeves for future developments.


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## TXrocks (Apr 22, 2014)

outbound said:


> just to keep you guys entertained as i write up the new thread and put the finishing touches on the product page....
> 
> Here is the $245 trail evo vs the current "top dog" it seems on here, the monteer 6500 that retails for $400:
> 
> ...


take my money lol!


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Also, we just noticed that the main Evo pic he had a helmet light on really dimmly while swapping lights and forgot to turn it off. The overall beam pattern is correct, but the backlighting of the bars is coming from another light, so we are reshooting all the beam pattern pictures tonight.


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## johnny5dm (Nov 14, 2020)

One other suggestion - not really fair to have the brake lines in the way of the lights, either.  That said, got my $ ready!


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

johnny5dm said:


> One other suggestion - not really fair to have the brake lines in the way of the lights, either.  That said, got my $ ready!


Yea we might try and do that too. But it's also showing off another little industry-first (at least that we know of) that we are launching along with Evo. Already have that particular product page up:

https://www.outboundlighting.com/product/evo-cable-manager/


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Just to keep you guys entertained as I write up the new thread and put the finishing touches on the product page....
> 
> Here is the $245 Trail Evo vs the current "top dog" it seems on here, the Monteer 6500 that retails for $400:
> 
> ...


Is that price representation for the Monteer correct? I thought the Moniteer 6500S was $350 and the Monteer 8000S is $400.

Looking forward to seeing the reshot pics.


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## biglmbass (Dec 4, 2019)

Anyone using this strap & can comment on how well it works or doesn't work? Is this all that's needed w' a Hangover light to strap it to a helmet? Despite what it looks like in the link, I'm unsure if it's just a strap, or strap w' corresponding 3 prong mounting tabs.

Contemplating the purchase of a Hangover but I'm pretty sure the supplied mount won't work on my helmet. 


Outbound said:


> Generally for helmets like that, the official GoPro vented helmet mount strap is the best bet:
> 
> https://gopro.com/en/us/shop/mounts-accessories/vented-helmet-strap-mount/GVHS30.html


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

biglmbass said:


> Anyone using this strap & can comment on how well it works or doesn't work? Is this all that's needed w' a Hangover light to strap it to a helmet? Despite what it looks like in the link, I'm unsure if it's just a strap, or strap w' corresponding 3 prong mounting tabs.
> 
> Contemplating the purchase of a Hangover but I'm pretty sure the supplied mount won't work on my helmet.


I just got mine in this week. It is just the helmet part, it does not have the clip that would be attached to the light. Seems to strap securely to the helmet but I have not ridden with it yet.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Abunchahicks (Mar 12, 2019)

biglmbass said:


> Anyone using this strap & can comment on how well it works or doesn't work? Is this all that's needed w' a Hangover light to strap it to a helmet? Despite what it looks like in the link, I'm unsure if it's just a strap, or strap w' corresponding 3 prong mounting tabs.
> 
> Contemplating the purchase of a Hangover but I'm pretty sure the supplied mount won't work on my helmet.


Yes, both my son and I have used the official GoPro strap for the last year on helmets that don't have a flat area to mount the stick on mount. They work great and can be installed in seconds. Saying that I also have a helmet that uses the provided stick on mount. Even though the area is not perfectly flat I chose to give it a try. I fount that if you heat up the sticky stuff a little with a lighter before pressing it on it sticks much better. Over the past couple of months I've come to trust the stick on mount almost as much as the strap.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## biglmbass (Dec 4, 2019)

Thanks.
Where does one find this clip? I'm not at all familiar w' GoPro things. I've looked on their site but am coming up empty.



rain164845 said:


> I just got mine in this week. It is just the helmet part,* it does not have the clip that would be attached to the light*. Seems to strap securely to the helmet but I have not ridden with it yet.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

biglmbass said:


> Thanks.
> Where does one find this clip? I'm not at all familiar w' GoPro things. I've looked on their site but am coming up empty.


The hangover comes with the 3 prong clip and an adhesive mount that it clips into.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Abunchahicks (Mar 12, 2019)

biglmbass said:


> Thanks.
> Where does one find this clip? I'm not at all familiar w' GoPro things. I've looked on their site but am coming up empty.


The light comes with the clip and you can buy aftermarket versions on Amazon for a couple dollars.

Neewer 8-in-1 Accessory Kit for Gopro, Buckle Clip Basic Mount, Vertical Surface Quick Mounting J-Hook Buckle Mount, Long Thumb Screw for GoPro Hero 3 3+ 4 5 6 7 Accessories SJ4000 SJ5000 SJ6000 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071LFHVTQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_v2VWFbEH870JP

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BigBo (Oct 4, 2010)

What is a cheap ish helmet that this mounts to easily? My current helmet is vented but I wouldn't mind one with less vents for the winter when I do most night riding.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

BigBo said:


> What is a cheap ish helmet that this mounts to easily? My current helmet is vented but I wouldn't mind one with less vents for the winter when I do most night riding.


Buy the go pro mount strap

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

BigBo said:


> What is a cheap ish helmet that this mounts to easily? My current helmet is vented but I wouldn't mind one with less vents for the winter when I do most night riding.


GoPro Vented Helmet Strap Mount


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## Thedanimal (Dec 17, 2020)

Hey folks, I wondered if anyone has rigged up a usb pack on their helmet and if they might share some tips on here. While the hangover runtime are probably going to be fine for me, i'd like to run it on high and have piece of mind that I won't run out of juice. My main concern is that the climate on vancouver island is pretty wet, so I'm not sure if a powerbank with a regular usb cord is a bad idea? Anyone have any experience they can share? I know some testing has been done, but I haven't seen any posts of people routinely hooking up extra power for rides. Bonus points if you can share your method of strapping the battery to your helmet!


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## Bigtuna00 (Nov 9, 2020)

I've had mixed results running a USB pack. The best result I got at home, I was able to get 5:45 runtime on High with a 10,000 mAh pack from Anker that has QC 3.0. You will want a QC pack for sure, in order to run on High. But I had more than one test where the light shut off too (once after ~4 hours, once after ~2 hours, once after ~30 mins).

On a ride I wasn't able to get the pack working. The Hangover drained normally and the pack barely got touched. The suspicion is that there's a problem with charge negotiation. And, in general, this is a risk of allowing us to run arbitrary packs. I suggested to OL that they maybe suggest specific packs to use, but I can understand that they wouldn't want any sort of liability to endorse certain packs.

OL is investigating further so I would say this is still an open topic...

As for your weather, I carried the pack inside the front pocket of my Gore rain jacket, not on my helmet. The port on the Hangover is waterproof and designed to allow the cable while in use.


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## Thedanimal (Dec 17, 2020)

Bigtuna00 said:


> I've had mixed results running a USB pack. The best result I got at home, I was able to get 5:45 runtime on High with a 10,000 mAh pack from Anker that has QC 3.0. You will want a QC pack for sure, in order to run on High. But I had more than one test where the light shut off too (once after ~4 hours, once after ~2 hours, once after ~30 mins).
> 
> On a ride I wasn't able to get the pack working. The Hangover drained normally and the pack barely got touched. The suspicion is that there's a problem with charge negotiation. And, in general, this is a risk of allowing us to run arbitrary packs. I suggested to OL that they maybe suggest specific packs to use, but I can understand that they wouldn't want any sort of liability to endorse certain packs.
> 
> ...


Sounds like the kinks aren't totally ironed out yet, so maybe I'll just stick to 1.5 hours night rides which shouldn't really be much of an inconvenience anyway. I know there was some mention of using gloworm or magicshine battery packs with a usb converter cable, but it's not a particularly cheap setup and was hoping to find someone who'd actually done a bunch of riding in that configuration before investing. I definitely like the idea of strapping the extra batter to the helmet, as I would feel concerned about a longer wire snagging on branches, but I reckon I better hold off for now. Thanks for taking the time to share your experience!


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

I'm planning on using the 10,000 mAh pack recommended previously. It's $20 on Amazon and on a dry test worked great. What I see is the USB port on the Hangover maybe a bit deep and the plug might slip while in use. I'm going to bodge something together to make sure the USB cable doesn't slip out on the ride. I'll let you know how it goes.


Thedanimal said:


> Sounds like the kinks aren't totally ironed out yet, so maybe I'll just stick to 1.5 hours night rides which shouldn't really be much of an inconvenience anyway. I know there was some mention of using gloworm or magicshine battery packs with a usb converter cable, but it's not a particularly cheap setup and was hoping to find someone who'd actually done a bunch of riding in that configuration before investing. I definitely like the idea of strapping the extra batter to the helmet, as I would feel concerned about a longer wire snagging on branches, but I reckon I better hold off for now. Thanks for taking the time to share your experience!


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## Thedanimal (Dec 17, 2020)

EchoTony said:


> I'm planning on using the 10,000 mAh pack recommended previously. It's $20 on Amazon and on a dry test worked great. What I see is the USB port on the Hangover maybe a bit deep and the plug might slip while in use. I'm going to bodge something together to make sure the USB cable doesn't slip out on the ride. I'll let you know how it goes.


 Thanks! Would love to hear about your experience. I did manage a 2:15 ride yesterday with a Evo on the bars and hangover on the helmet. Just ran the Evo on high the whole time and then did a bit of modulating on the hangover and ended up with plenty of light the whole way. It dropped to low just as I got back to the car and then it ran for 20 minutes or so before cutting out. I think for 90% of rides I wouldn't need an extra battery but your feedback will be helpful for that 10% where I need a bit more runtime!


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

Thedanimal said:


> Thanks! Would love to hear about your experience. I did manage a 2:15 ride yesterday with a Evo on the bars and hangover on the helmet. Just ran the Evo on high the whole time and then did a bit of modulating on the hangover and ended up with plenty of light the whole way. It dropped to low just as I got back to the car and then it ran for 20 minutes or so before cutting out. I think for 90% of rides I wouldn't need an extra battery but your feedback will be helpful for that 10% where I need a bit more runtime!


Thanks for that info. I'm thinking High on the Evo and Medium on the Hangover is the perfect setup for 2 hour rides. Haven't actually done this yet, but your recon is pointing that way.


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## Wombath (Nov 13, 2020)

Thedanimal said:


> Thanks! Would love to hear about your experience. I did manage a 2:15 ride yesterday with a Evo on the bars and hangover on the helmet. Just ran the Evo on high the whole time and then did a bit of modulating on the hangover and ended up with plenty of light the whole way. It dropped to low just as I got back to the car and then it ran for 20 minutes or so before cutting out. I think for 90% of rides I wouldn't need an extra battery but your feedback will be helpful for that 10% where I need a bit more runtime!


I have just completed some tests with a quite old (about 4 years) and well used 10000 mAh Anker powerbank. This does not support QC only Anker's own PowerIQ tech. The Hangover was pulling about 8-9 watts while on High, and I got about 3-3,5 hours of runtime out of it. The brightness level did not change until the last minute (used a luxmeter to check). So a new and maybe QC3.0 compatible powerbank with this capacity probably could give you 4 hours on high.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

for the convenience of others, i digged up links to older posts by @MRMOLE (the search function isn't too bad, it just would be nice to have a search function for a specific thread):
Post #246, Post #505

Matt said:


Outbound said:


> We've seen the most bang/buck/reliable units from Anker. Any of the 2A+ units work great. Can't really comment on others as we haven't tested them.


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

I have a small 3500mah power bank that I use with my hangover on longer rides. Is there any reason I couldn't velcro it on the light itself on top where the logo is? It's the rubber coated part of the light so I don't think it would impact cooling much.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

On hangover won't affect cooling at all. All the cooling on hangover happens with the case itself.


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## Wombath (Nov 13, 2020)

Well, I have some interesting observations regarding charging and using external batteries. I am hoping to be able to do some 24 hour races this year, so tested both the Hangover and the Evo with this in mind. I have used the supplied cables in both cases. The powerbank I am using is an Anker Powercore 10000 QC 3.0, so it is QC 3.0 compatible. I am also using an Anker PowerPort 6+, which is an older model, with one QC 2.0 port and five 5V/2,4A ports. For measuring the voltages and currents, I use a PortaPow USB Power Monitor 3.0

Now, with the Evo I have no problems, if I connect it to the powerbank, it immediately sets the charging to QC 3.0, and I can use that as an external power source. Same thing when I attach it to the desktop charger's QC 2.0 port. So that is fine.

The Hangover is more interesting: with the same setup, it does the same, but only most of the times! Sometimes when I attach it to the charger or the powerbank, instead of the LEDs going first 1-2-3-4 then 1-2-3-4 as it switches to Quick Charging, it starts just with the first three LEDs slowly: 1-2-3-1-2-3 and so on. Then it might switch to slow charging, might switch to fast charging, and might stay with this 1-2-3 pattern, without charging at all. And sometimes fast charging means 5V/1,8A, sometimes it is 12V/0,6A.

As I have mentioned, the Evo seems consistent with how it uses the powerbank, the Hangover is not. I have tried different cables and other powerbanks, too. By the way, when it switches to QC 3.0 (12V/0,6A), I can get 4 hours 20 minutes of runtime on High with the 10000 mAh powerbank. If it stays with slow charging, then about 2-2,5 hours (obviously the internal battery depletes faster). And sometimes it simply refuses to use the powerbank at all, which of course means about an hour or so.

So I'd really be interested in other people's experiences with the Hangover+powerbank combos. How reliable are yours? Maybe Matt has some info if there are any differences between how the Evo and the Hangover decides on what voltage/current it asks for?

The three pictures were taken just a few seconds apart: I simply pulled and reattached the cable to the powerbank, and got three separate charging styles.


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## sptimmy43 (Jul 27, 2018)

Wombath said:


> Well, I have some interesting observations regarding charging and using external batteries. I am hoping to be able to do some 24 hour races this year, so tested both the Hangover and the Evo with this in mind. I have used the supplied cables in both cases. The powerbank I am using is an Anker Powercore 10000 QC 3.0, so it is QC 3.0 compatible. I am also using an Anker PowerPort 6+, which is an older model, with one QC 2.0 port and five 5V/2,4A ports. For measuring the voltages and currents, I use a PortaPow USB Power Monitor 3.0
> 
> Now, with the Evo I have no problems, if I connect it to the powerbank, it immediately sets the charging to QC 3.0, and I can use that as an external power source. Same thing when I attach it to the desktop charger's QC 2.0 port. So that is fine.
> 
> ...


I don't have a USB multimeter so I can't speak to actual voltage/amp draw but my Hangover exhibits the same behavior with the LEDs when charging. 1--2--3--4 1-2-3 1-2-3 like it can't decide on whether or not to quick charge. It happens with the supplied cable and seems independent of power source. It does it when plugged into a wall transformer or battery bank.


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## Bigtuna00 (Nov 9, 2020)

Wombath said:


> Well, I have some interesting observations regarding charging and using external batteries.


Just wanted to share, I had the same (or similar experience). My longest duration was ~6.75 hours on High with a 10,000 mah pack. This was a controlled test at home, with the light sitting over a fan (sitting on my watercooled PC case, so temps were low). But with that same pack, on an actual ride, it didn't use the pack at all. Across several tests I got anywhere from 45mins of 5 hours of runtime.

I gave up on using the Hangover with a powerbank as it's just not a reliable option. I quickly found that I wanted a remote anyway, so I got a Gloworm X2, which is awesome. I contacted Outbound directly to share my experience with the Hangover + powerbank. They said they were going to purchase the same powerbank that I used to do some testing. I suggested that they just recommend some known working packs but I wonder, after seeing your results, if maybe it's a problem with the light itself and not the powerbank at all.


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## Wombath (Nov 13, 2020)

Bigtuna00 said:


> Just wanted to share, I had the same (or similar experience). My longest duration was ~6.75 hours on High with a 10,000 mah pack. This was a controlled test at home, with the light sitting over a fan (sitting on my watercooled PC case, so temps were low). But with that same pack, on an actual ride, it didn't use the pack at all. Across several tests I got anywhere from 45mins of 5 hours of runtime.
> 
> I gave up on using the Hangover with a powerbank as it's just not a reliable option. I quickly found that I wanted a remote anyway, so I got a Gloworm X2, which is awesome. I contacted Outbound directly to share my experience with the Hangover + powerbank. They said they were going to purchase the same powerbank that I used to do some testing. I suggested that they just recommend some known working packs but I wonder, after seeing your results, if maybe it's a problem with the light itself and not the powerbank at all.


I'm quite sure it is the light. The QC 3.0/2.0 is mostly a one way thing with minimal handshake. There is a nice article here and here about the way they work and some potential complications. I have tested more then one QC 3.0 capable powerbank, and they all work as they should with the Evo, but not with the Hangover. I love the Hangover, but with external batteries it would cover my needs perfectly, while without them it is only 75%.


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## tacoma22 (Feb 27, 2020)

Wombath said:


> Well, I have some interesting observations regarding charging and using external batteries. I am hoping to be able to do some 24 hour races this year, so tested both the Hangover and the Evo with this in mind. I have used the supplied cables in both cases. The powerbank I am using is an Anker Powercore 10000 QC 3.0, so it is QC 3.0 compatible. I am also using an Anker PowerPort 6+, which is an older model, with one QC 2.0 port and five 5V/2,4A ports. For measuring the voltages and currents, I use a PortaPow USB Power Monitor 3.0
> 
> Now, with the Evo I have no problems, if I connect it to the powerbank, it immediately sets the charging to QC 3.0, and I can use that as an external power source. Same thing when I attach it to the desktop charger's QC 2.0 port. So that is fine.
> 
> ...


Same exact thing happens with my hangover as well. It is not consistent with charging using the external pack. I have tried multiple power packs including the ravpower brand that outbound recommended. My Evo works fine with an external pack so maybe something is up with the hangover software/ programming?

Let me know if you here anything from Matt.

Edit: Rode tonight with a different ravpower pack and ended with hangover on 4 bars! Charging seemed normal most of the ride. Ride was just under 2 hours. Oddly enough my buddy's hangover ended on 2 bars left despite also using a power pack. Not sure what his was but it was not a ravpower.

Evo also on battery pack and ended with 3 bars. My buddy without ended on 1 bar. About 33 degrees outside.

Both on adaptive all night apart from one stint of high on a rougher downhill section


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

My longer ride setup. I glued some rare earth magnets to the helmet and a 3500mah anker power bank. Gives me 3.5+ hours of adaptive mode and the extra weight isn't really noticable.

I had originally put the magnets on the light instead of the helmet. It worked fine, but the battery pack ended up being the tallest thing on me and I was waiting to lose it on contact with a low branch.


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## tacoma22 (Feb 27, 2020)

TechniKal said:


> View attachment 1922966
> View attachment 1922967
> 
> 
> ...


Hey not a bad idea! I prefer the extra weight down in my bib pocket but this looks good!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

How does adaptive mode regulate output? Does it rely on time or voltage or something else?


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## Bigtuna00 (Nov 9, 2020)

EchoTony said:


> How does adaptive mode regulate output? Does it rely on time or voltage or something else?


I don't know the technical answer, but Outbound did tell me it's important to have the external pack plugged in before turning the light on and leave it for the whole ride, as it will affect adaptive mode. I assume then that it's somewhat "smart" and probably voltage-based (but you can ask Outbound to be sure, they are very responsive).


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

Bigtuna00 said:


> I don't know the technical answer, but Outbound did tell me it's important to have the external pack plugged in before turning the light on and leave it for the whole ride, as it will affect adaptive mode. I assume then that it's somewhat "smart" and probably voltage-based (but you can ask Outbound to be sure, they are very responsive).


I'm sure Matt or Tom will chime in shortly....


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

TechniKal said:


> My longer ride setup. I glued some rare earth magnets to the helmet and a 3500mah anker power bank. Gives me 3.5+ hours of adaptive mode and the extra weight isn't really noticable.


I noticed this Gemini pack on ActionLED (sold out) but it's avail on Amazon: Gemini 4-Cell Battery 60Wh 8.4V USB-C

*USC-C charging*, hard case and can act as a USB-C power pack, not cheap though.

Also a 2 Cell version for helmet user: Gemini 2-Cell Battery 8.4V USB-C

21700 Batteries, slightly heavier but more run time.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Adaptive mode is time based, pretty simple really, just a more controlled power down of the light to match approximately how much time our eyes need to adjust to the darkness rather than the typical ramp down that any other light does.

We always suggest that if you know you'll be using a battery pack to extend your ride, to start with it plugged in so that the battery pack can keep the internal battery "topped off" so the light can maintain full brightness. Otherwise if you try to plug it in when its already so drained that it's forcing down brightness, then won't be able to charge fast enough to overcome the internal battery drain. Just have to keep in mind that the external pack is always charging the battery.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Adaptive mode is time based, pretty simple really, just a more controlled power down of the light to match approximately how much time our eyes need to adjust to the darkness rather than the typical ramp down that any other light does.


Does the adaptive program restart at initial turn on levels after turning the light off and then on again or with any mode switching?
Mole


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## SprSonik (Jul 29, 2004)

Just pulled the trigger on the Hangover after a few months of very good results with the Trail Evo (night ride 2-3x a week). Looking forward to the new light!


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Does the adaptive program restart at initial turn on levels after turning the light off and then on again or with any mode switching?
> Mole


changing modes does not reset the adaptive mode. Turning the light off and back on does.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Hey guys, popping in for a quick update on how we are doing.

We finally have like.... a lot of hangovers. We've hired a new full-time employee to build out lights and he's been working for us now for almost 5 months. Has now become an expert. So if you get a new light recently it's probably been built by Andy. He's kicking ass and really letting myself focus on the bigger picture items such as new product development, improving our inventory systems and looking into a new space to move into. 

We are integrating a full ERP system so that we can better plan, forecast, and order materials in advance so that we can hope to avoid stock-out issues that plagued us in the past. Going to be one of those items that is kind of boring and un-sexy, but really will help us lay an even more solid foundation for growth in the future. 

Speaking of growth, we are quickly outgrowing our warehouse space. We moved in a little over 18 months ago, and been able to expand as we grew more inventory, just move the sheet metal walls outward, and charge us for the floorspace, actually a really great system for a rapidly growing company. However starting to get to the point that need to build out a better space that will allow us to make more capital intensive investments. Things like ultrasonic welding machines, thermal heat stakers, potentially robotic manufacturing cells, carbon manufacturing (we have some ideas on that) and a few other systems. Where we are now is more of a straight warehousing situation, and now we are looking into moving into our own facility. Definitely an awesome next step to take and hoping can get us poised for the future. 

Among all that, we of course are still working on new products. Have a new light coming out this fall aimed more at the commuters/roadies, as well as continiously updating all our products with improved processes from our suppliers, improved assembly techniques (part of that investment in machinery), and more. Lots of exciting stuff on the horizon. You guys have literally been a part of this company since day 1 when I popped in to start talking about lighting and the kickstarter 3.5 years ago, so hope you don't mind hearing more about our growth and how we'll continue to develop products that YOU guys want.


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## JustRon (Nov 20, 2009)

Sorry, I don't know how to search a thread anymore... 
the dust cover on my Hangover doesn't close. Should I even bother trying to fix it? Or, ignore it?


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

JustRon said:


> Sorry, I don't know how to search a thread anymore...
> the dust cover on my Hangover doesn't close. Should I even bother trying to fix it? Or, ignore it?


If this light is new to you, the two I have "form" back into their closed position after a few hours or so. If this an older light that has ceased to do that, I have have no useful info to pass along.


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## JustRon (Nov 20, 2009)

Stihlgoin said:


> If this light is new to you, the two I have "form" back into their closed position after a few hours or so. If this an older light that has ceased to do that, I have have no useful info to pass along.


I bought it a few months ago but have only used it twice. Thanks, though


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

JustRon said:


> I bought it a few months ago but have only used it twice. Thanks, though


No problem. At first, it annoyed me. When I realized that it eventually went back to its original shape I was fine with it. Unfortunately, I spent more than a few minutes trying to close the cover at first. Great light, though. Enjoy it.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

The seal for the USB port? I kind of have to putz with mine, to get the tab inserted into the USB port itself sometimes.


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## JustRon (Nov 20, 2009)

dysfunction said:


> The seal for the USB port? I kind of have to putz with mine, to get the tab inserted into the USB port itself sometimes.


Yes, I tried for quite a while but it wouldn't stay closed.


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## Nocturnalnature71 (May 29, 2021)

Lots of good discussion on this thread!

I just ordered mine a few days ago and look forward to giving it a try.

Can someone please suggest a good external battery pack that works with the USB cable?
The whole output voltage thing confuses me, so I'd greatly appreciate the input so I only have to buy once and not learn the hard way that it isn't strong enough to charge during night rides.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Nocturnalnature71 said:


> Can someone please suggest a good external battery pack that works with the USB cable?


Has anyone tried the Gemini packs with USB-C output?








Outbound Lighting --- Hangover --- Discussion


Thanks! Would love to hear about your experience. I did manage a 2:15 ride yesterday with a Evo on the bars and hangover on the helmet. Just ran the Evo on high the whole time and then did a bit of modulating on the hangover and ended up with plenty of light the whole way. It dropped to low just...




www.mtbr.com


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## seabird55 (Feb 15, 2021)

just ordered one of these...is there any update on the external battery pack issue...has it been resolved?


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

Can anyone recommend a USB cable that fits well for charging purposes only? None of my phone cables fit in the port.


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

I use the one that came with my Hangover. But any USB-C cable should work.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

rain164845 said:


> Can anyone recommend a USB cable that fits well for charging purposes only? None of my phone cables fit in the port.


Did you lose the original cable? PM me and we'll get a new one out to you if that's the case.


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## rain164845 (Jul 6, 2008)

Outbound said:


> Did you lose the original cable? PM me and we'll get a new one out to you if that's the case.


Great service after the sale. Thank you!

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Is there an upgraded/improved/brighter/better Hangover in the works? Any ideas as to when? I will regulate my 2 down to my kiddos and pick up the new and improved hangover and a couple trail evos.

what about a killer tail-light - is that being worked on as well?


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## firebanex (Jan 29, 2021)

There was a tease of the new light of a picture on the OL instagram today and it's been mentioned in one of the OL threads on here. By tease I mean there is a full on picture of it in the post. Bit bigger, bit more power, longer battery life. Gonna be out in a couple months from the sounds of things. Also a sweet gopro adapter mount that one could also use with the EVO.


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

firebanex said:


> There was a tease of the new light of a picture on the OL instagram today and it's been mentioned in one of the OL threads on here. By tease I mean there is a full on picture of it in the post. Bit bigger, bit more power, longer battery life. Gonna be out in a couple months from the sounds of things. Also a sweet gopro adapter mount that one could also use with the EVO.


That go pro mount would fix my setup perfect. Running the lezyne stem mount for my wahoo


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

firebanex said:


> There was a tease of the new light of a picture on the OL instagram today and it's been mentioned in one of the OL threads on here. By tease I mean there is a full on picture of it in the post. Bit bigger, bit more power, longer battery life. Gonna be out in a couple months from the sounds of things. Also a sweet gopro adapter mount that one could also use with the EVO.


thanks for the info. I tried to find the picture of it you mentioned on Instagram but was unsuccessful. Maybe they pulled it down.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

cue003 said:


> thanks for the info. I tried to find the picture of it you mentioned on Instagram but was unsuccessful. Maybe they pulled it down.


This is the new self contained road light. Can be seen in this post on IG (in the last picture, you can spot the name in the video). it is also partly shown on the outbound homepage


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

biking_tg said:


> This is the new self contained road light. Can be seen in this post on IG (in the last picture, you can spot the name in the video). it is also partly shown on the outbound homepage


thanks for the reference links. Looks like the next light for release would be this updated self contained road light. Looks like they will take a slight “detour” and work on the new road light first then the new hangover will be after that.


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## firebanex (Jan 29, 2021)

Given what I know about the Detour, I'm going to be replacing the Hangover as a helmet mounted light with it. The original Focal Road was also used as a helmet mounted light in the light package back before the Hangover or Evo existed.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

firebanex said:


> Given what I know about the Detour, I'm going to be replacing the Hangover as a helmet mounted light with it. The original Focal Road was also used as a helmet mounted light in the light package back before the Hangover or Evo existed.


have you seen a beamshot or the beam so far? Given that OL mentioned that they improved the beam pattern for road use, i doubt that Detour would be better suited as a helmet light than the hangover.
i have a focal road (and tested once a hangover), and the focal road has for a pure road light not the perfect beam pattern (in terms of relative brightness distribution). However this not-perfect-for-road-use pattern allows better use as helmet light...
well it's all guessing until @Outbound post a beam shot and a wall shot...


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

The light distribution is indeed better. Have to remember when we did the Focal Road my first priority was the Trail because I felt (correctly) that the MTB market would be much larger. However I kind of backed myself into a corner when it came time to do the Road version. A very large rectangular LED die (the 1x5 Altilon chip) plus a short focal length and a fixed casting meant that I didn't have a lot of freedom for the facet placement for the Road. Was able to get it done, but it wasn't a well optimized system.

By developing Detour from the ground up, was able to get the reflector dialed in, using two small sources (XD16 chips at around 500 lumens each) and able to fine tune the reflector well before we even started to think about overall design. Well, my only restriction was that I wanted it to be around as wide and tall as a 21700 cell since that was the plan from the start. Actually have had this project in my lucidshape software kicking around for almost 2.5 years at this point.... The result is that the lumens are about 2/3 of what Focal road is, but the distribution is SO much better, and the peak brightness is higher, so the overall effect is much improved. 

We actually have postponed stuff a bit because I wanted to tweak the reflector a bit more before releasing some public images, so another round of tooling tweaks needed to be made, but here is a peak of the simulated results:









To be used as a helmet light? Possibly, certainly no harm in trying, though clearly not really what it's designed for but it won't be awful.

We planned on launching this similar to Evo, a week before black friday with shipments to start in December. Though honestly we are SO slammed with so many orders for Hangover and Evo, along with some minor tooling changes, we are just going to launch it when we launch it. No date set, might be mid or late December. The goal is that we'll have 5-6000 lights on hand ready to go. We are missing the seasonal rush for sure, but we honestly don't care right now. We want to make sure our existing customers are happy and keeping those orders flowing even if it means delaying our new product by another month or so. We are moving into a new facility in two weeks and going to be busy trying to keep up with orders (over 1200 a week) while getting setup and established for our next level of manufacturing. 



























Lots of investments coming soon in more automation machinery, higher tech dispensing machines, improved screw-driving machines, more focus on exacting part quality and a production engineer to be hired. 

And yes, we are also still working on some newer stuff even after Detour launches. Though honestly we will probably be spending most of 2022 re-engineering some of our existing products to make improvements for assembly and quality so that we can crank out 200-300 a day over the course of the entire year to build up for the fall rush and fulfill international distribution a little easier.


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Outbound said:


> but here is a peak of the simulated results:


Could you post the same simulation in for the existing focal road, so that one can compare this side to side?


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## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

Pics of the Detour on this page...









Bright & Shiny! Fresh bits from Supacaz, Outbound, Barfly, Velo, Versus & Voler


Lots of shiny new things caught our eyes at Sea Otter Classic, but this roundup is full of the brightest, most colorful components, accessories, and kits from a wide range of brands. Starting with Velo Saddles, they had a few ultra-bright new colors for their lightweight Angel Glide, Ride, and...




bikerumor.com














As a Focal Trail Edition owner, I think it's cool they are staying with the reflector design, thought maybe they were getting away from that.


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## firebanex (Jan 29, 2021)

I'm still going to stick it on my helmet. Need a longer burning hangover without needing an external battery for some night rides. Currently I just carry two hangovers and swap if need be. I don't necessarily need the long ranged light like the hangover can throw given the slower speeds we go with winter fat biking. If I'm getting a shorter range but better filled in ground illumination with snow reflecting it everywhere.. should work out good!

Since it's not dark in the summer when I'm riding on the road.. long as it's got a blinky mode like the Evo does, it'll work for me.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

@Outbound the new facility is shaping up nicely. Congrats on all the success. Is Hangover V2 on the books for 2022? Maybe you can give us a sneak peak at your 6 and 12 month roadmaps.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

phantoj said:


> As a Focal Trail Edition owner, I think it's cool they are staying with the reflector design, thought maybe they were getting away from that.


There is a reason you see that style on tons of new car headlights. Next time you walk around the parking lot take a gander.  Basically this "snowshovel" style of reflectors is the best way for a really compact design. The tradeoff for vehicles is that it's not very optically efficient because you have to block a lot of the light to prevent too much foreground scatter. However since we are on bikes, I utilized that scatter to illuminate the foreground in front of and around the bike, similar to how the current focal is, just not as prominent and a lot closer to the bike rather than the curved lower cutoff you'd see on the Focals.

B&M uses a clever little clip on lens to try and redirect more of the light towards the upper part of the image, but I decided to forgo that since part of what people love about Evo is the even illumination around the bike. This is where the tweaking of the reflector had to happen after our first production test shots, there was a small "dead zone" between the light coming straight out of the LED and the directed light coming from the reflector. So I went back to the simulations and tweaked and tweaked and tweaked until we got it dialed in. Luckily for us at one of the recent trade shows we attended I met a guy in Detroit who vacuum metalizes 3d printed parts. So we sent him a printed version of our current reflector, and a printed version of our updated reflector to see if the prototype reflector would be discernible from a production part, and if so, how much so we could account for it.

Amazingly, you literally cannot tell the difference between the printed reflector and the production one unless you look at the back and can feel where the supports were on the printed part. So this has opened up a lot of opportunity for us in the future to really REALLY dial in a reflector even more since we can make lots of minute variations and test them for relatively low cost (around $60-80 per print). Long story short, was able to fill in that dark hole and now the light field is as evenly distributed from the front tire all the way to where you are looking way downrange similar to Evo, but with a strong cutoff.

You won't see projector style headlights or some of the really fancy matrix style lighting in bike lights anytime soon because the focal lengths are just WAY too long. The coolest low-focal length style lens that I'd love to try and pursue someday in the future is some stuff that was found on the older Acura RLX's. Problem is that they required some incredibly precise tooling and metalization. Once you've gone through all the work you are pretty much better off with a TIR array or a traditional snowshovel style reflector. They do look amazing though: 






cue003 said:


> @Outbound the new facility is shaping up nicely. Congrats on all the success. Is Hangover V2 on the books for 2022? Maybe you can give us a sneak peak at your 6 and 12 month roadmaps.


V2 is still on the books after a lot of deliberation. But it won't be till Fall 2022 for sure. Right now the main goal is to improve the Design For Assembly of Evo first. We are going to redo some of the casting (more than likely moving to the thermally conductive nylon after some more extensive prototype testing) and overall design to improve it. Same internal optics, same PCBA, same battery, just tweaking so that we can assemble them twice as fast. Visually it'll look a little different, but functionally will be identical. 

We then do want to utilize what we've learned for driver and PCBA design for a hangover "turbo" as we've called it internally. We will still be making tweaks to Hangover as that is still one of our bread and butter products, but we do want something to fill that gap between hangover and Evo both in price point and in functionality. 

First and foremost though is getting our production streamlined. So we may delay a "turbo" for a bit if that means we need to spend the money investing in production line equipment instead. So far we are not demand limited in our stuff, but 100% production limited. We don't spend as much as we could on advertising, don't sell wholesale, and don't do really any kind of affiliate marketing because we just can't keep up with demand. So trying to add in yet another product line won't be the smartest thing when we need to focus on how to make 50-100,000 lights a year. Once we achieve that, we'll open up more designs while turning up the other sales channels.

The new building is going to be a huge part of that growth process and really, REALLY excited for that.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

late to the party, but I'm in the market for a new helmet light. (I probably ought to get a new bar light too.) My concern is weight placement on my helmet. I have a few lights with which I've experimented and I have found that extra weight on my helmet is a PITA (or pain in the neck) and I absolutely want to minimize that. the Hangover is pretty darn light for what it is, but it's still 100g on top of my head. can anyone comment on how that feels on top of the helmet? does it matter where on the helmet I put the weight? can I put it further up on top of the helmet to make it feel more balanced?

I'm leaning toward Outbound because of the amazing responsiveness they show here, and the design is terrific. I just don't want to be annoyed and regret the purchase if it feel unbalanced on my head and drives me insane. the alternative is a Gloworm or something like it with an external battery pack, because that will make it easy to take the battery weight off my head. if nothing else, I might buy a Hangover when there's a sale and if I don't like it, it could become my handlebar light and buy something with a battery pack for my helmet later.

sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere in this massive thread!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

mack_turtle said:


> late to the party, but I'm in the market for a new helmet light. (I probably ought to get a new bar light too.) My concern is weight placement on my helmet. I have a few lights with which I've experimented and I have found that extra weight on my helmet is a PITA (or pain in the neck) and I absolutely want to minimize that. the Hangover is pretty darn light for what it is, but it's still 100g on top of my head. can anyone comment on how that feels on top of the helmet? does it matter where on the helmet I put the weight? can I put it further up on top of the helmet to make it feel more balanced?
> 
> I'm leaning toward Outbound because of the amazing responsiveness they show here, and the design is terrific. I just don't want to be annoyed and regret the purchase if it feel unbalanced on my head and drives me insane. the alternative is a Gloworm or something like it with an external battery pack, because that will make it easy to take the battery weight off my head. if nothing else, I might buy a Hangover when there's a sale and if I don't like it, it could become my handlebar light and buy something with a battery pack for my helmet later.
> 
> sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere in this massive thread!


I have a Hangover mounted to one of my helmets a literally never remove it even for longer rides where I don't plan on using it. Its mounted fairly far forward and as low as possible and when riding I don't notice it at all. Outbounds Black Friday sale will soon be active so waiting for that will probably get you the best price of the year. The Hangover is a great light for what it is (very high throw but low lumen light) but doubtful you'd be happy with its narrow beam if you ended up wanting to use it as a bar light IMO.
Mole


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

mack_turtle said:


> I'm leaning toward Outbound because of the amazing responsiveness they show here, and the design is terrific. I just don't want to be annoyed and regret the purchase if it feel unbalanced on my head and drives me insane. the alternative is a Gloworm or something like it with an external battery pack, because that will make it easy to take the battery weight off my head. if nothing else, I might buy a Hangover when there's a sale and if I don't like it, it could become my handlebar light and buy something with a battery pack for my helmet later.


Keep in mind, if you aren't happy with it and it's still in good condition we'll refund you within 30 days, and pay for the shipping back. We've got a lot of confidence in our stuff.


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## Daxdagr8t (Jul 9, 2014)

mack_turtle said:


> late to the party, but I'm in the market for a new helmet light. (I probably ought to get a new bar light too.) My concern is weight placement on my helmet. I have a few lights with which I've experimented and I have found that extra weight on my helmet is a PITA (or pain in the neck) and I absolutely want to minimize that. the Hangover is pretty darn light for what it is, but it's still 100g on top of my head. can anyone comment on how that feels on top of the helmet? does it matter where on the helmet I put the weight? can I put it further up on top of the helmet to make it feel more balanced?
> 
> I'm leaning toward Outbound because of the amazing responsiveness they show here, and the design is terrific. I just don't want to be annoyed and regret the purchase if it feel unbalanced on my head and drives me insane. the alternative is a Gloworm or something like it with an external battery pack, because that will make it easy to take the battery weight off my head. if nothing else, I might buy a Hangover when there's a sale and if I don't like it, it could become my handlebar light and buy something with a battery pack for my helmet later.
> 
> sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere in this massive thread!


Hangover is light AF, and if you are woried about weight why would you choose a light with a battery pack straped to your helmet . If you ride more than 2 hrs then get a long enough usb c which are a dime a dozen off amazon and a small 2000mah or 5000mah battery pack. Or you can buy 2 hangover and swap em out lol. But honestly a trail evo and hangover is the best combo.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Daxdagr8t said:


> Hangover is light AF, and if you are woried about weight why would you choose a light with a battery pack straped to your helmet . If you ride more than 2 hrs then get a long enough usb c which are a dime a dozen off amazon and a small 2000mah or 5000mah battery pack. Or you can buy 2 hangover and swap em out lol. But honestly a trail evo and hangover is the best combo.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


It's a little hyperbolic, but yes, I agree.

I've not felt the need to use an extension battery with my Hangover, but low or medium is sufficient for most rides, most time, since our trails twist much more than open descents.

Weight is minimal, but noticeable when the time comes in the winter to put it on/spring to take it off.

It is not powerful enough as a bar light, except maybe on high power/beacon light for a road bike in an area with reasonable street illumination.


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## Wombath (Nov 13, 2020)

mack_turtle said:


> late to the party, but I'm in the market for a new helmet light. (I probably ought to get a new bar light too.) My concern is weight placement on my helmet. I have a few lights with which I've experimented and I have found that extra weight on my helmet is a PITA (or pain in the neck) and I absolutely want to minimize that. the Hangover is pretty darn light for what it is, but it's still 100g on top of my head. can anyone comment on how that feels on top of the helmet? does it matter where on the helmet I put the weight? can I put it further up on top of the helmet to make it feel more balanced?
> 
> I'm leaning toward Outbound because of the amazing responsiveness they show here, and the design is terrific. I just don't want to be annoyed and regret the purchase if it feel unbalanced on my head and drives me insane. the alternative is a Gloworm or something like it with an external battery pack, because that will make it easy to take the battery weight off my head. if nothing else, I might buy a Hangover when there's a sale and if I don't like it, it could become my handlebar light and buy something with a battery pack for my helmet later.
> 
> sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere in this massive thread!


I ride a lot with my Hangover mounted, and while I can feel the difference in weight, it is more of a weight distribution question. The GoPro mount on my sub-300 gram XC helmet is placed quite forward, so with the light on I can definitely feel the helmet wanting to tip forward more. On my trail helmet (around 400 grams) with the mount closer to the top I don't feel a thing.


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## MOBH (Nov 25, 2017)

Thanks for showing the simulated beam shot - very interesting.

I love my Kickstarter Focal Road but, on some rides, could do with more throw down the road. Has the Detour got greater throw as you mention that the peak brightness is better?

Very interested in the Detour and cannot wait for more details.



Outbound said:


> The light distribution is indeed better. Have to remember when we did the Focal Road my first priority was the Trail because I felt (correctly) that the MTB market would be much larger. However I kind of backed myself into a corner when it came time to do the Road version. A very large rectangular LED die (the 1x5 Altilon chip) plus a short focal length and a fixed casting meant that I didn't have a lot of freedom for the facet placement for the Road. Was able to get it done, but it wasn't a well optimized system.
> 
> By developing Detour from the ground up, was able to get the reflector dialed in, using two small sources (XD16 chips at around 500 lumens each) and able to fine tune the reflector well before we even started to think about overall design. Well, my only restriction was that I wanted it to be around as wide and tall as a 21700 cell since that was the plan from the start. Actually have had this project in my lucidshape software kicking around for almost 2.5 years at this point.... The result is that the lumens are about 2/3 of what Focal road is, but the distribution is SO much better, and the peak brightness is higher, so the overall effect is much improved.
> 
> ...


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Be sure to check with Outbound before ordering if you helmet has a center vent. The light only includes a curved adhesive mount that might not work on mine. Outbound offered to send me a larger adhesive mount that should fit my helmet. I'll probably order a GoPro strap-on mount as well.









Furthermore, I got my light on a Friday evening and emailed them the same evening. they emailed me back the same evening (I expected and totally understood if I didn't hear back until Monday) and offered to send me an alternative mount that should fit. I'll probably get a GoPro strap one so that I can move this light to other helmets, but Outbound went beyond expectations already for me.


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## KG_MTB (Dec 22, 2021)

Thedanimal said:


> Hey folks, I wondered if anyone has rigged up a usb pack on their helmet and if they might share some tips on here. While the hangover runtime are probably going to be fine for me, i'd like to run it on high and have piece of mind that I won't run out of juice. My main concern is that the climate on vancouver island is pretty wet, so I'm not sure if a powerbank with a regular usb cord is a bad idea? Anyone have any experience they can share? I know some testing has been done, but I haven't seen any posts of people routinely hooking up extra power for rides. Bonus points if you can share your method of strapping the battery to your helmet!


I have rigged up an external helmet pack. My Hangover is mounted pretty far forward on my helmet. I mounted an Anker 5000mAH pack on the back of the helmet to keep the weight balanced. It weighs about the same as the hangover, so there is no neck pain at all from the extra weight. I just added a small rubber foot under the cylindrical pack and a single Velcro strap to secure it. It has been solid on all the rides I have used it on so far. I found some 18" USB A to C cables with 90 degree heads that work perfectly. I don't tend to night ride when it's too wet out, and we don't have the same moisture concerns here in New England that you do in BC. I did however make a quick and ugly moisture resistant pack for my 10,000mAH QC3 pack that I strap to the frame to use with the EVO. It's made out of old inner tube pieces superglued together and has a small clear window to see the battery life indicator. The window is important to make sure that the lights are charging when you expect them too. If a cable gets knocked loose you could be in for a surprise when the light goes out sooner than expected. I may make a similar pack for the helmet if needed.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Outbound said:


> We heard you.
> 
> Combine that featherweight with the fact that we can run this light at *2 hours of runtime *and you start to wonder what else you could possibly need.


3hrs of runtime in the cold.


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## Charleskan (Jan 6, 2022)

Outbound said:


> The light distribution is indeed better. Have to remember when we did the Focal Road my first priority was the Trail because I felt (correctly) that the MTB market would be much larger. However I kind of backed myself into a corner when it came time to do the Road version. A very large rectangular LED die (the 1x5 Altilon chip) plus a short focal length and a fixed casting meant that I didn't have a lot of freedom for the facet placement for the Road. Was able to get it done, but it wasn't a well optimized system.
> 
> By developing Detour from the ground up, was able to get the reflector dialed in, using two small sources (XD16 chips at around 500 lumens each) and able to fine tune the reflector well before we even started to think about overall design. Well, my only restriction was that I wanted it to be around as wide and tall as a 21700 cell since that was the plan from the start. Actually have had this project in my lucidshape software kicking around for almost 2.5 years at this point.... The result is that the lumens are about 2/3 of what Focal road is, but the distribution is SO much better, and the peak brightness is higher, so the overall effect is much improved.
> 
> ...



Hi there @Outbound ! 

is there some ETA known for the Detour?  
As far as I see, you mentioned it was postponed to late December, but there is no new info till now.
Im badly in need for new light and would only like to know, whether I should hold a bit more for its release, or it will take a bit longer and I need to buy sth. else for now?  

thanks a lot!


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## SprSonik (Jul 29, 2004)

KG_MTB said:


> I have rigged up an external helmet pack. My Hangover is mounted pretty far forward on my helmet. I mounted an Anker 5000mAH pack on the back of the helmet to keep the weight balanced. It weighs about the same as the hangover, so there is no neck pain at all from the extra weight. I just added a small rubber foot under the cylindrical pack and a single Velcro strap to secure it. It has been solid on all the rides I have used it on so far. I found some 18" USB A to C cables with 90 degree heads that work perfectly. I don't tend to night ride when it's too wet out, and we don't have the same moisture concerns here in New England that you do in BC. I did however make a quick and ugly moisture resistant pack for my 10,000mAH QC3 pack that I strap to the frame to use with the EVO. It's made out of old inner tube pieces superglued together and has a small clear window to see the battery life indicator. The window is important to make sure that the lights are charging when you expect them too. If a cable gets knocked loose you could be in for a surprise when the light goes out sooner than expected. I may make a similar pack for the helmet if needed.
> View attachment 1962583
> 
> View attachment 1962585
> ...


I have never needed more run time from my OLs, but nice to see real world proof that they work with external power. Thanks for sharing! I came from NR 3600 Pro and 1800 Pro, and my whole reason for the move to Outbound was to get away from external batteries for my 20-30 mile night rides. Can't say enough great things about their product or their people. Such a great company!


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I like my Hangover quite a bit. It's just a real quality design and although it costs much more than the typical Ebay lights, you certainly get a better product. The mounting system is smart, the beam pattern is well planned, it's light, no hanging cords, etc.

Wish Outbound sent a coupon for an additional purchase or something as I'd buy their front mounted light to pair with the Hangover.


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## SprSonik (Jul 29, 2004)

Not sure whether I missed it in the 740 comments, but the Hangover is also ridiculously LOW PROFILE compared to other helmet lights. We ride some overgrown stuff that has pulled everyone's head back by the light hitting a branch. The extra clearance from the Hangover helps.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

I would like more output from the Hangover. It would be great to get all the goodness of the hangover but with at least 1500+ lumens or double the output of what it is today. I would also be fine if it needed to have 21700 batteries in order to do so. Bring on V2 Hangover. 

oh almost forgot a little wider beam coverage area would also be helpful. Using hangover on helmet and Trail Evo on bars but I am left wanting more on the hangover.

speaking of both lights it would be great to have output memory so it goes back to my last used setting afterit was turned off. I mainly ride with the lights at medium (except i always feel the hangover needs to be in High to be acceptable in conjunction with the Evo in medium) and it would be great to go straight back to that the next time the light is turned on.


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## SprSonik (Jul 29, 2004)

cue003 said:


> I would like more output from the Hangover. It would be great to get all the goodness of the hangover but with at least 1500+ lumens or double the output of what it is today. I would also be fine if it needed to have 21700 batteries in order to do so. Bring on V2 Hangover.
> 
> oh almost forgot a little wider beam coverage area would also be helpful. Using hangover on helmet and Trail Evo on bars but I am left wanting more on the hangover.
> 
> speaking of both lights it would be great to have output memory so it goes back to my last used setting afterit was turned off. I mainly ride with the lights at medium (except i always feel the hangover needs to be in High to be acceptable in conjunction with the Evo in medium) and it would be great to go straight back to that the next time the light is turned on.


I have the opposite experience. I love the focused beam on the Hangover, and actually rarely run it, as the Trail Evo on medium provides all the light I need for most trails at sane speeds. I am actually going to get a second Hangover as a "spare"/buddy light and keep it mounted on the bars.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Suns_PSD said:


> Wish Outbound sent a coupon for an additional purchase or something as I'd buy their front mounted light to pair with the Hangover.


I've gotten some deals prior to the release of new products but for existing products Black-Friday is the best time to get any sort of discount. Considering efficiently keeping production high enough to satisfy product demand seems to have been one of Outboud's biggest challenges we're probably lucky to see any discounts at all. 
Mole


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Charleskan said:


> Hi there @Outbound !
> 
> is there some ETA known for the Detour?
> As far as I see, you mentioned it was postponed to late December, but there is no new info till now.
> ...


If UPS would ever deliver our sample parts to Tom out in Olympia would be able to give you a more definitive answer. But my guess is still 2-3 months away. My guess is that we should definitely be ready by Sea Otter 2022. Plan is to open up a product page soon but with an email signup to be alerted when they are ready to ship, no pre-order or anything since I don't want to deal with that cash influx and the expectations it puts on us.

Biggest challenge has been this new thermally conductive plastic and getting overmolding to work with it. Our supplier has been great and we finally cracked the code on the right blend of resin fillers and the correct TPE and surface finishes to get it to stick well. One of those things where we knew if we can figure out the right reciepe, we'll be able to crush it moving forward since it's a very complex process, but the benefits are much lighter weight, durability, performance, etc. So wasn't in a rush to try and slam home a new product since our cash-flow is quite strong and didn't NEED to get it out there like we did with Hangover, and less so with Evo. 

Once tom gets the parts (been 10 days now since I shipped them to him via UPS Next Day Air) we'll be able to put in the final PCB layout, confirm some things and get some product shots started.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

MRMOLE said:


> I've gotten some deals prior to the release of new products but for existing products Black-Friday is the best time to get any sort of discount. Considering efficiently keeping production high enough to satisfy product demand seems to have been one of Outboud's biggest challenges we're probably lucky to see any discounts at all.
> Mole


Correct. We are STILL working through our holiday backlog, should be totally cleared out this week, then the focus is building 10,000 lights to have on the shelf before July and maintain that build pace with Detour and another new light we'll debut (hopefully late this fall, no promises yet, still haven't even worked out the initial industrial design). 

Got some fun automation such as a new Fisnar Dispensing robot with a tray load/unload mechnanism to precisely (and incredibly quickly) dispense the thermal grease onto batches of lights so we can reduce that workload and be able to batch process up to 120 lights at a time in less than 5 minutes. Working on a box folding robot to automate that task, part of the new packaging was to standardize the sizes so the same box size will work for all our lights and make things easier for shipping as well (everything is a 6x6x3 box now) so we can have a machine just build us 500 boxes in a few hours so when we complete the build we can drop everything in. It's small investments like that, that'll let us be more flexible and handle surges better. 

Very hard to hire additional production people because we slow down so much in the late winter and summer, so we need to be smart about what we try to automate. We also in the past couldn't just build up huge inventories in the spring and summer because that would affect our cash flow in a hugely negative way. Now that we have better historical data, business credit is easier to obtain and can get all the funding we need to buy up lots of parts and build even when we aren't selling. So that come the fall, we can handle the gigantic surge and demand.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Here's some sneaky peaks. 

Going to be starting a new topic soon for Detour.


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## MOBH (Nov 25, 2017)

Outbound said:


> Here's some sneaky peaks.
> 
> Going to be starting a new topic soon for Detour.
> 
> ...


Very nice: cannot wait for the new topic and more details.


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## MOBH (Nov 25, 2017)

Outbound said:


> Here's some sneaky peaks.
> 
> Going to be starting a new topic soon for Detour.
> 
> ...


Also, I’m still really interested as to whether the throw (and overall beam) is superior to the road edition.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

MOBH said:


> Also, I’m still really interested as to whether the throw (and overall beam) is superior to the road edition.


Throw is about 25% better, and improved beam pattern for sure. The color exposure went wonky on this picture (taken with an iphone, guessing the green grass threw it off, rest assured the color temperatures are actually very similar). Spent a lot of time focusing on improving that beam pattern for a wider throw along the side of the lane/trail, and more balanced from the front tire up to the cutoff. The Road Edition had that little bit of too much concentration about halfway up the beam, and that's just about eliminated on detour, while improving everything around your immediate vision. Road shown here was aimed a little too high.

Can also see the effects of being able to have a longer focal length on the reflector bowl itself. Basically eliminated that harsh line from the leading edge and able to gain a lot of "free" width. The challenge was to balance that raw light aiming straight on the ground, with filling in the light up ahead. Rest assured this is NOT easy, and why on almost every cutoff-beam light on the market, including the best of the best from supernova, B&M, lupine, etc. they all have lots of "holes" in the beam pattern that is very annoying to ride behind.










Around 1100-1200 lumens, single 21700 cell, USB-C pass-through charging (of course), similar runtimes as Evo (half battery capacity, half typical lumens as expected), so about 2 hours on full solid output, or almost 3 hours on adaptive. However if Road Edition is anything to live by, because the peak intensity is fairly high, on typical dark country roads or trails you can comfortably run this on low or medium for extremely long runtimes.

Here is Detour compared to the most popular "road light" in the USA at least, the L&M Pro Vis 1000. We haven't published official beam shot photos since need to get a proper exposure locked camera and stuff out, remember these are all auto-exposed on the iPhone as we were more interested in seeing the beam pattern shapes compared to others.


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## MOBH (Nov 25, 2017)

Outbound said:


> Throw is about 25% better, and improved beam pattern for sure. The color exposure went wonky on this picture (taken with an iphone, guessing the green grass threw it off, rest assured the color temperatures are actually very similar). Spent a lot of time focusing on improving that beam pattern for a wider throw along the side of the lane/trail, and more balanced from the front tire up to the cutoff. The Road Edition had that little bit of too much concentration about halfway up the beam, and that's just about eliminated on detour, while improving everything around your immediate vision. Road shown here was aimed a little too high.
> 
> Can also see the effects of being able to have a longer focal length on the reflector bowl itself. Basically eliminated that harsh line from the leading edge and able to gain a lot of "free" width. The challenge was to balance that raw light aiming straight on the ground, with filling in the light up ahead. Rest assured this is NOT easy, and why on almost every cutoff-beam light on the market, including the best of the best from supernova, B&M, lupine, etc. they all have lots of "holes" in the beam pattern that is very annoying to ride behind.
> 
> ...


Thank you - very interesting. Cannot wait until it is released and available to buy.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

MOBH said:


> Thank you - very interesting. Cannot wait until it is released and available to buy.


Yeah, take my $ would ya?

I'm a sucker for the latest & greatest. 

Timeline?

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


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## C619V (Mar 8, 2021)

Curious, and apologies if this was covered, a ton of responses and the search via TapaTalk is horrendous.

Amp draw? 

Cell used? 

Cell replaceable or interchangeable? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bills (Jun 13, 2009)

Mine has shipped, excited to get to try them out. Will be my first night riding setup for trails.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

C619V said:


> Curious, and apologies if this was covered, a ton of responses and the search via TapaTalk is horrendous.
> 
> Amp draw?
> 
> ...


Amp Draw: Not sure yet, still fine tuning (plus I'm not the electrical expert, my electrical engineer is, when we are closer to launch will have numbers)

Cell used: Samsung INR21700-50E

Replaceable or interchangeable: Nope, see here: Are the internal batteries user-serviceable/replaceable?


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## C619V (Mar 8, 2021)

Outbound said:


> Amp Draw: Not sure yet, still fine tuning (plus I'm not the electrical expert, my electrical engineer is, when we are closer to launch will have numbers)
> 
> Cell used: Samsung INR21700-50E
> 
> Replaceable or interchangeable: Nope, see here: Are the internal batteries user-serviceable/replaceable?


Thanks! 

Being that the 50E is a 9.8a 5000mAh cell, can extrapolate the rest from the data sheet of the emitters 


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## biking_tg (Dec 27, 2018)

Outbound said:


> Throw is about 25% better, and improved beam pattern for sure.


That is a really promising beam shot! From these images i'd say: excellent job. But the proof is in the pie


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

If I am running the hangover and trail evo lights where should the helmet light be pointing? I am not sure if I should just mount it on the top of my head or more forward so it can point down more.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Point your helmet light where you want to look, imo. Handlebar mounted light I usually point down a little more than where my eyes naturally go.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Mishtar said:


> If I am running the hangover and trail evo lights where should the helmet light be pointing? I am not sure if I should just mount it on the top of my head or more forward so it can point down more.


Actually did write a blog about this: How to mount a bike helmet light on different helmets?


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

Outbound said:


> Actually did write a blog about this: How to mount a bike helmet light on different helmets?


Awesome, thank you for that. I did not see it under faqs on your site, I should have looked harder.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

cue003 said:


> I would like more output from the Hangover. It would be great to get all the goodness of the hangover but with at least 1500+ lumens or double the output of what it is today. I would also be fine if it needed to have 21700 batteries in order to do so. Bring on V2 Hangover.
> 
> oh almost forgot a little wider beam coverage area would also be helpful. Using hangover on helmet and Trail Evo on bars but I am left wanting more on the hangover.


This was my concern. I used to run Ituo lights (XP3 2300 lumen bars and XP2 1500 Lumen helmet). Then I swapped them around and preferred the more powerful light on my helmet and the weaker light on my bars. Both of those lights have now failed - though they were really good so I'm still trying to get them to work again..

I replaced the bar, with the OL Road Edition as I spend more time at night on paved trails and was getting fed up of the glare bounced back off street signs and stuff with regular lights, and that is a very good light. That has a rating of 1500-1600 lumens. It works as well for MTB when paired up with a strong helmet light. I was using a MagicShine Monteer 3500S head that I used to replace my failed Ituo XP3 until last night when my MagicShine also failed. I would have liked to replace that with the Hangover, but frankly the lumens and run-time are lacking.

I chatted to Tom Place about this over email and the solution to run time appears to be using an external USB battery pack, but the lumens is still inadequate. I would like to see a minimum of 1800 lumens to complement the 1500-1600 of the road edition as in my experience, more lumens on the head provides a more balanced lighting position than the other way round.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Roaming50 said:


> I was using a MagicShine Monteer 3500S head that I used to replace my failed Ituo XP3 until last night when my MagicShine also failed. I would have liked to replace that with the Hangover, but frankly the lumens and run-time are lacking.


Your Magicshine light should have a warranty. Curious what failed on the 3500 since I also use one? I'd be surprised if an upgraded Hangover is going to have or need 1800 lumens. My current model Hangover measures less than 800 lumens but max lux (throw) is similar to most of the 1500ish lumen lights I have (X2, XP3...) though the beam is narrower.
Mole


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

The Monteer is under warranty and I already got a return label for it. 

I ended up ordering the Hangover on the theory that the lens focusing of the light might be better. That turned up today. 

I then started playing with the Monteer again and it spluttered back into life. Not sure I would totally trust it as it got super hot in no time and it was a bit flaky but after a few shutdowns and restarts it appeared to work normally again. So  

I did a few (inside the house) beam tests and brightness tests between the two. So far I’m not impressed. Considering Outbound Lightning gets lots of rave reviews (and I’ll agree their Road Edition is exceptional) the Hangover is very underwhelming. 

For example, the Monteer on low gives as bright and wider beam than the Hangover on high. Up the Monteer to medium, high or boost (or whatever it’s called) and it just blows the Hangover away. 

I thought it would be better than this. Perhaps when I get it on a trail it’ll improve but considering the adaptive setting, which is less light still, only runs for my typical night ride (I was planning to supplement with an addition battery pack) I’m not hopeful. 


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

I don't mean to sound like a dick here, but you do realize you are comparing two completely different classes of lights right? One is designed to be a lightweight low profile wireless helmet light, and last a relatively long time on a single 18650 battery, while the other is a 4-cell external battery pack with a large light head on it. Even the amazon listing shows the light sitting 4" off the helmet:










Both have completely different design targets. If we were designing a lightweight external lighthead specifically for helmet mounting and a external battery pack we'd be designing a different light entirely.

Take it out on the trail, as others have rightfully noticed, wall shots don't tell the whole story. You won't notice all the peripheral spill or the balance of light inside the house. But I have a feeling you are setting yourself up for disappointment if you are expecting this to somehow overcome 3000 lumens of short burst power with a 4 cell battery pack in a backpack, we can't manufacture miracles (yet).


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

I have nothing but respect for Outbound Lighting and the beam profile engineering that goes into their lights, but I think a couple of the above comments with respect to the Magicshine Monteer 3500 were misleading:

1. "Even the amazon listing shows the light sitting 4" off the helmet"

While the Magicshine supplied helmet mount is uncomfortably tall it is relatively easy to find mounts that lower the light head to near flush with the helmet. It is still taller than the Hangover, but hardly the night and day difference indicated in the picture. Props to Outbound, though, for providing a proper helmet mount without requiring users to resort to the aftermarket.

2. "3000 lumens of short burst power" suggests that the 3500 has very limited duration in its high power mode. My own experience and all reviews I've seen indicate that it will operate in high power mode with a steady power output of at least 2500 lumen for at least 1.5 hours. Maybe not the advertised 3500, but still vastly more than the Hangover. 

Outbound is correct that that this is an apples vs. oranges comparison and that it is not fair to expect the same performance from a small self-contained light like the Hangover with that of a light with a large external battery pack. Still, the comments made above suggest that the Monteer 3500 is an inferior light with poor mounting options and limited runtime. I have not found that to be the case.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Outbound said:


> I don't mean to sound like a dick here…


Sorry but the sheer fact you said that, does make you come across as one. 

I want to like the Hangover, but I don’t. Yes, as you say it’s apples to oranges, but I’m trying to provide some useful critique and feed back. I’m sure the Hangover is fine at typical Midwest woodlands speeds where trails are twisty and usually slow. But it then also falls short for riders that ride in big mountains, say out west.

I’m not a newbie night rider. I started in the mid 90s with Nightsuns, then Vistalights, then many versions on Cygolights, then Ituo, and now the MagicShine Monteer 3500S on the helmet (which is working again!) with the OL Road Edition on the bars. That’s a pretty good combo. I also still have a working Ituo XP2 which also works well as a helmet light. 

For light output the Monteer puts out up to 1800 lumens flood and 1400 lumens spot. I usually run both on 25% on non critical transition sections and 50% when speeds pick up. For attack sections I run max. This has plenty of light and battery life. Yes it’s heavy but it is beautifully balanced on my “ghetto” winter night riding helmet. 

















The Monteer has a standard Garmin mount which adapts to a GoPro mount for fairly flush out front mounting. It’s not the awful helmet mount that you showed. 

My Ituo XP2 is smaller and lighter still. That goes up to 1500 lumens with three tunable settings. I have low at 600, medium at 1050 and high at 1500. This also has tunable optics and I run it with one spot and one flood. This gives good throw at speed while still covering all the twisty turns in the woods. 

















With the Hangover, it really is not that much smaller for the light unit. Now everybody’s head is different, but for me, I found that if I mount the unit in the same place s the other lights, it put too much weight on the front of the helmet pushing it down over my eyes. For the hangover to be balanced, it would have to be on the top of the helmet where, ironically, it would catch the overhead branches. 


















I do not have photos of the light outputs in my back yard as it was only 0F tonight and I didn’t want to freeze. But suffice to say, Hangover came in last place for light output. Beam pattern wasn’t really advantageous either. 

I could possibly see myself using it as a backup light for day rides that might end up in night, where I would expect to end the ride within an hour of sunset. For that I could see it being good. But for dedicated, long night rides I think there’s better options. 

I think where “I set myself up for disappointment“ is that you sell this paired with the Trail EVO as a package. That is a much higher output light and so I thought this would be able to keep up. It does not. 

I’d love to see a Hangover EVO with a 2000 lumen rating on max. Say 600, 1300, 2000 for low, med, high with tunable output. Then for battery, make it modular do that it clips into the head (with reduced run time) for those that want a one piece light, or have a short extension cable to an external battery can be mounted at the back of the helmet, ideally with a larger pack for increased run time. For me, all in ones aren’t good on the helmet as the weight is not balanced. Separating lights for battery with a short cable resolved that. 


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## Velodonata (May 12, 2018)

Roaming50 said:


> Sorry but the sheer fact you said that, does make you come across as one.
> 
> I want to like the Hangover, but I don’t. Yes, as you say it’s apples to oranges, but I’m trying to provide some useful critique and feed back...


Just return it and move on. 
The Hangover's attributes and limitations have all been thoroughly covered right here before, you could have avoided this situation with better use of this resource. Matt is hardly a dick for taking the time as the owner of the company to regularly respond to these threads. His insight, detail, and frankness is appreciated. Outbound's customer service is second to none.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Velodonata said:


> Just return it and move on.


I will be. I did not read all 39 pages of this thread but did catch some of it. I believe there is a market out there that thinks like me where Outbound Lighting is currently missing. This market is looking for a helmet light that can provide:

Three output modes:
low - 400-600 lumens for climbing.
medium - 1000-1200 for general trail riding and battery endurance.
High - 1500-2000 for high speed lighting needs and maximum throw for occasional runs (10-20 minutes at a time).

We'd expect the light to run in high for around 1 to 1-1/2 hours with the medium being more like 3-4 hours. Low should serve up 7+ hours of run time. Having lighting tunable by the user so adjust brightness to their run-time needs would be cherry.

I really want to support a local, US made light, and wish Outbound the best, but this light is a miss at this time.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Roaming50 said:


> I believe there is a market out there that thinks like me where Outbound Lighting is currently missing. This market is looking for a helmet light that can provide:
> 
> Three output modes:
> low - 400-600 lumens for climbing.
> ...


Wholeheartedly agree! 
-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Roaming50 said:


> I really want to support a local, US made light, and wish Outbound the best, but this light is a miss at this time.


Hangover is not a miss, just a miss for you. Customer satisfaction wise the Hanover seems to be one of the most popular helmet lights I've seen but its main owner base are people who prioritize the self-contained aspect (and accept the self-contained limitations) over ultimate lumen output. For the most part I agree with everything you've said about the Hangover's performance characteristics and have posted similar comments yet I like my Hangover because I have a use for it. It's not my main off-road helmet light, like you I have a Monteer 3500 (or XS/XP3) for that. With the Hangover I get a light weight well designed light that pairs well with a lot of the lower lumen bar lights I test that can with no loss of comfort just be left on my helmet whether I need it or not. So I'd love to see some of the UI features you'd like included but pretty sure the performance your looking for from your helmet light would be too heavy in self-contained form. My guess is that eparate battery/lighthead configuration is probably going to be your best option for the near future.
Mole


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

MRMOLE said:


> Hangover is not a miss, just a miss for you.


I'm actually considering this more and may keep the light (after reading 20+ pages of this thread). I will not use it for my main winter helmet light given the limitations on endurance, especially when run in 10F temps. For that I will stick with my head / separate battery set up. Where I do see me using this, is carrying it as a back up light. It is small and self contained so it works great in that regards. I can carry it as a third light on those longer rides should I burn through my other lights or if one decides to fail (my batteries of which I have 3 4-cell packs are getting to be 5+ years old now).

I can also see me using it as the "get me home" light in summer months when I start in the evening post work and just stay out too long and I don't want to mess with the two piece lights. In those situations I am usually not riding for more than an hour post sunset. 

I still haven't ridden with it though (just too cold last night). Perhaps tonight or tomorrow I will get out. That'll be a slower paced fat bike ride in twisty woods so actually would be perfectly suited for this light. I'd make my final decision after that.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I could see the concerns regarding the Hangover lumen output being an issue for some.

The Hangover fits in this great spot for me where it's super light and low (can't even feel it added to my helmet front), no additional cables, and since I use the same helmet for day and night riding it's super easy to just pop on and off.

Should also add that I only do one group night ride/ week and there are lots of other lights on the trails so my needs might not be as intense as some others.

I just wish Outbound would hurry up and release the updated Trail Evo so I could get one of those ordered as well.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> Hangover is not a miss, just a miss for you. Customer satisfaction wise the Hanover seems to be one of the most popular helmet lights I've seen but its main owner base are people who prioritize the self-contained aspect (and accept the self-contained limitations) over ultimate lumen output. For the most part I agree with everything you've said about the Hangover's performance characteristics and have posted similar comments yet I like my Hangover because I have a use for it. It's not my main off-road helmet light, like you I have a Monteer 3500 (or XS/XP3) for that. With the Hangover I get a light weight well designed light that pairs well with a lot of the lower lumen bar lights I test that can with no loss of comfort just be left on my helmet whether I need it or not. So I'd love to see some of the UI features you'd like included but pretty sure the performance your looking for from your helmet light would be too heavy in self-contained form. My guess is that eparate battery/lighthead configuration is probably going to be your best option for the near future.
> Mole


Self contained on a helmet is dumb unless it's just a real short ride IME. You want good flood from your handlebar light, good spot from your helmet light. The helmet light needs to burn through the handlebar light though by a bit and needs to output a significant amount of lumens for when things get faster. I do run self-contained on the helmet at times, but that's more in the shoulder seasons where the amount of riding into the night is fairly limited, vs. full night rides which are hours long. Being able to keep the battery somewhat warm is pretty important, nothing worse than a "this should last 2 hours" and it only lasts one at typical cold temps (night-time..duh). There really isn't a self-contained solution I've found that works well for this, they are just too limited by the battery supply and their self-contained nature. If you start making them bigger and bigger...then it just becomes a big liability on your head, for weight, branches, etc. Remote battery solutions are simply better for "real" night riding IME and self contained lights are great for commuting, a ride where there's a possibility of some night if you are running late, a backup light, etc. But as prime-time, they fall short by design issues that are inherent to their self contained nature.

The best setups for me include 2000-3000 range helmet light with a remote to adjust the lumens for increasing speed on trails or take it back for the climbs. My gloworm has a "climb" setting that is minimal lumens, it's great to be able to adjust it by remote.

Ironically, bar-mounts, where you have the ability to go remote without much trouble, is where self-contained work the best IME. You can run a flood at a low light setting, which dramatically improves your ability to see close things, your helmet does the spot for the further range stuff, and the self contained works for a while at that low setting.


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## tacoma22 (Feb 27, 2020)

Suns_PSD said:


> I could see the concerns regarding the Hangover lumen output being an issue for some.
> 
> The Hangover fits in this great spot for me where it's super light and low (can't even feel it added to my helmet front), no additional cables, and since I use the same helmet for day and night riding it's super easy to just pop on and off.
> 
> ...


They are releasing an updated trail evo already? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I guess cause I was averaging 11+ mph for 17 miles in the trees on just a $25, 4 year old e-bay handlebar mounted light the Hangover seems great to me! It was really challenging if I fell off the group which happened recently as I could no longer use their lights as an assist.


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## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

Roaming50 said:


> I can also see me using it as the "get me home" light in summer months when I start in the evening post work and just stay out too long and I don't want to mess with the two piece lights. In those situations I am usually not riding for more than an hour post sunset.


This is the ideal application for the Hangover and what I primarily use it for. If I'm going for a 2+ hour night ride that starts in the dark, I'll grab my other light with separate 4 cell battery pack.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Just remember the more specialized applications you can create for your lights the more lights you can justify owning!☺
Mole


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

tacoma22 said:


> They are releasing an updated trail evo already?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, we are working on a light to slot in between Hangover and Evo, but that won't be till the fall. Still working out the production woes with Detour that should launch in a few months, but that is Road Light oriented.


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## alixta (Dec 27, 2006)

Bigtuna00 said:


> I've had mixed results running a USB pack. The best result I got at home, I was able to get 5:45 runtime on High with a 10,000 mAh pack from Anker that has QC 3.0. You will want a QC pack for sure, in order to run on High. But I had more than one test where the light shut off too (once after ~4 hours, once after ~2 hours, once after ~30 mins).
> 
> On a ride I wasn't able to get the pack working. The Hangover drained normally and the pack barely got touched. The suspicion is that there's a problem with charge negotiation. And, in general, this is a risk of allowing us to run arbitrary packs. I suggested to OL that they maybe suggest specific packs to use, but I can understand that they wouldn't want any sort of liability to endorse certain packs.
> 
> OL is investigating further so I would say this is still an open topic...


Did this ever get resolved? I've tried a bunch of QC3 packs & various cables. I can see it switching to 12v and providing fast charge via a USB dongle, however most times the onboard battery will deplete instead of the pack providing charge. I worked out the trick to get it charging & negotiate the best (fast) charge profile before turning light on myself, however I can't figure out how to get the longer runtimes I need with the USB pack. 

Any ideas?


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## SprSonik (Jul 29, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Self contained on a helmet is dumb unless it's just a real short ride IME. You want good flood from your handlebar light, good spot from your helmet light. The helmet light needs to burn through the handlebar light though by a bit and needs to output a significant amount of lumens for when things get faster. I do run self-contained on the helmet at times, but that's more in the shoulder seasons where the amount of riding into the night is fairly limited, vs. full night rides which are hours long. Being able to keep the battery somewhat warm is pretty important, nothing worse than a "this should last 2 hours" and it only lasts one at typical cold temps (night-time..duh). There really isn't a self-contained solution I've found that works well for this, they are just too limited by the battery supply and their self-contained nature. If you start making them bigger and bigger...then it just becomes a big liability on your head, for weight, branches, etc. Remote battery solutions are simply better for "real" night riding IME and self contained lights are great for commuting, a ride where there's a possibility of some night if you are running late, a backup light, etc. But as prime-time, they fall short by design issues that are inherent to their self contained nature.
> 
> The best setups for me include 2000-3000 range helmet light with a remote to adjust the lumens for increasing speed on trails or take it back for the climbs. My gloworm has a "climb" setting that is minimal lumens, it's great to be able to adjust it by remote.
> 
> Ironically, bar-mounts, where you have the ability to go remote without much trouble, is where self-contained work the best IME. You can run a flood at a low light setting, which dramatically improves your ability to see close things, your helmet does the spot for the further range stuff, and the self contained works for a while at that low setting.


I regularly run my Evo/Hangover pair on 20 mile rides (cools to 35-45 in winter) and have no issues with burn time on low or medium. When it is time to bomb into the canyons at high speed, the high setting gets some use, but other than that, there is just no need. And I have never run out of battery in a year of use. I used to run some really big NR Pro lights (3600 bar and 1800 helmet) and they did nothing better. For the price, I could have a pair of Evo/Hangovers and still come in lighter and easier to carry with comparable run time. If I can ride fast, tight, exposed singletrack at 24mph average on the descents, I can't imagine a scenario where more light is needed. This is exactly why I switched from NR.


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## Bigtuna00 (Nov 9, 2020)

alixta said:


> Did this ever get resolved? I've tried a bunch of QC3 packs & various cables. I can see it switching to 12v and providing fast charge via a USB dongle, however most times the onboard battery will deplete instead of the pack providing charge. I worked out the trick to get it charging & negotiate the best (fast) charge profile before turning light on myself, however I can't figure out how to get the longer runtimes I need with the USB pack.
> 
> Any ideas?


You should contact Outbound for the latest info. I sold my Outbound lights once I discovered lights + a remote


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Deleted by OP because my short battery life on my Evo on my 1st ride was likely due to my wife unplugging it before it was completely charged. 
It did fine on my 2nd ride with it today.


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## Zanderspeed (4 mo ago)

@Outbound any update or ETA on the “turbo” as we approach Fall 2022?


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Zanderspeed said:


> @Outbound any update or ETA on the “turbo” as we approach Fall 2022?


Definitely nothing soon regarding "Turbo" . We are still in the initial design phases. 

A lot of our resources (Me and Tom) this year got tied up in the production development of Detour, and the endless PCBA redesigns we had to do in order to stay ahead of part shortages so we weren't caught with our pants down come fall. Pushed all our product timelines back 8-12 months.

However we are starting to roll out a new Hangover shell update. With how well the thermally conductive Nylon has worked out on Detour, we rolled it into Hangover as well. No changes really to the LED or optics, aside from a switch from XQE to the XD16's used on Evo and slightly tweaking the optic to suit. But the new shell makes manufacturing so much easier with less scrap (powdercoat thickness variances on small grooves is a *****.... learned that lesson), saves a few more grams, and we were able to slim down the overall light by a few millimeters. 

I'll get some photos soon as we roll this change out into production.


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## Zanderspeed (4 mo ago)

Appreciate the update and ongoing incremental improvements to the existing lineup. Looking forward to the pics when available to share more!


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Here is some pics of the new Hangover lower shells. Like I mentioned before, nothing else has changed about the optics, batteries or PCB aside from a new LED board shape to fit this updated shell design. 

Main goal here was to take advantage of this awesome material. It significantly improves our assembly process and feels much nicer in the hands. We were able to reduce the overall height by a few mm, and sits a little lower on the helmet but nothing really worth "upgrading" for to be honest. We were just getting tired of dealing with scrap on the magnesium shells that had to get powdercoated. This also brings Hangover in line design wise with the rest of the lineup currently.

Weight reduced slightly, again nothing you'll really notice side by side. The USB door is significantly improved, and happy to see that taken care of now.

No price changes either since this material is basically a break even, or a small cost savings (saving like 50 cents more overall), so no need to increase the price. 





































The photos on the website will be updated in a few weeks, the lights are a professional photography studio getting some new pics taken as we speak.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Nice repack.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

@Outbound if I were to place an order, when would the revised light be available for shipping?


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Roaming50 said:


> @Outbound if I were to place an order, when would the revised light be available for shipping?


They’ve been shipping for several weeks now. Just haven’t updated the product photos as I’m waiting on those from a studio taking them for us.


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