# Should I push him into a 24"?



## paulbram (May 31, 2016)

I know this has been asked before, but I could really use some advice. My son turns 7 this weekend. He's 50 inches tall and has a 21 inch inseam. From what I can gather, he's not quite there yet for a 24 inch bike, but I also realize that by the end of the summer he probably will be. Right now he's swimming in his 16...

It's his birthday this weekend and I'd like to surprise him with a new bike, so taking him shopping and trying things out isn't exactly what I was planning.

He does have two younger sisters so I'm kind of leaning toward just picking up a 20" Giant XTC Lite. I did find a used Specialized Hotrock on craigslist but he's asking $199 and the Giant is only $229.

Am I making a mistake putting him in a 20? With the seat all the way down on a 24, would he be able to stand over comfortably?


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Not uncommon to put kids on a bike slightly larger so they can grow into them...especially if you are buying a quality bike. They aren't cheap so it can hurt a bit when you spend some cash only to have the kid outgrow the bike in a year. But of course you don't want it so large that it's uncomfortable or even unsafe. My best advise would be the same as an adult...get him on a couple bikes of different sizes and see what fits best. My son is 9 and about 55" tall and he's on an XS frame adult bike with 27.5 wheels and he loves it. It's just a tad big but not so much that he can't handle it well so he should be able to ride it a couple years, just in time for his sister be be big enough to take it over from him.


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## burbskate (May 23, 2012)

I found the gearing on 24s to be better. Bought both my boys the MT220 by trek with the triple chainring. Smaller front chainring got my kids climbing a lot more hills they were walking up with a 20.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Will also go into how comfortable your kid is riding a bike. Short people ride 29ers, so it can be done. More of a question about how confident your kid will be on a bike that could be too big. My 7 year old is pretty tall, but doesn't have the confidence to ride a bigger bike. 20" fits fine though, so that's what she's got. Buy a 20", use it, pass it on to the other kids, then sell it.


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

My daughter is 55", and started riding her 24" bike when she was around 52", but she is long legged. It is amazing how much smoother she rides that bike than she did her 20" wheeled bike. The extra 2" of radius is a big deal, and I was able to put a real fork on it (a 26" Rock Shox SID), so that helped a lot too. Also so many more better tire and rim choices too. I built her up a pair of tubeless Stans Crest wheels, which dropped about 4 pounds off the bike we bought.

But the problem is that not all 24" wheeled bikes frames are the same size wise. We tried quite a few at a local bike swap, and then found a bike on MTBR classifieds that was like one of the ones that she tried. I also got a short stem that had a 35 degree stem angle and mounted it upside down. It helped, and I have been slowly raising it with spacers as she gets bigger.

She can also ride my wife's 29er (Medium Scott Scale) around the house and on easy trails. I wouldn't want her to ride anything even remotely technical, so it really depends on what you will be riding with your son.


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## paulbram (May 31, 2016)

Thanks for all the tips. I'm going to attempt one more shopping trip with a tape measure to try and figure out if he'd be able to standover a 24. If it looks iffy, I'll probably just get a 20 and pass it down in a year. Or... maybe his birthday present will be a "shopping trip with dad" so we can just try them out together at the LBS. That might actually be just as fun for him!


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## jh_on_the_cape (Jan 12, 2004)

Take him shopping with you and have him try the bikes. He will probably decide on color... but he will be excited!
A too big bike can make a kid not excited to ride and then lose interest in general. I would get a 20, esp with younger siblings.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

paulbram said:


> Or... maybe his birthday present will be a "shopping trip with dad" so we can just try them out together at the LBS. That might actually be just as fun for him!


But those can easily turn into a $600 shopping trip.


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## Spectre (Jan 23, 2004)

watts888 said:


> Will also go into how comfortable your kid is riding a bike. Short people ride 29ers, so it can be done. More of a question about how confident your kid will be on a bike that could be too big. My 7 year old is pretty tall, but doesn't have the confidence to ride a bigger bike. 20" fits fine though, so that's what she's got. Buy a 20", use it, pass it on to the other kids, then sell it.


Second on that. If cost is a concern, buy a decent 20" bike off of Craigslist and sell it next spring for pretty much the same price as you would pay for it today. Bikes that are too big sour kids on the experience of riding, esp riding anything offroad.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

paulbram said:


> I know this has been asked before, but I could really use some advice. My son turns 7 this weekend. He's 50 inches tall and has a 21 inch inseam. From what I can gather, he's not quite there yet for a 24 inch bike, but I also realize that by the end of the summer he probably will be. Right now he's swimming in his 16...
> 
> It's his birthday this weekend and I'd like to surprise him with a new bike, so taking him shopping and trying things out isn't exactly what I was planning.
> 
> ...


My kid was 120 CM (47") tall when we got a "medium" frame 24"
*He still had plenty of room on his 20" bike though* and the motiviation for the 24" was that we do more serious single track.... and the working forks and bigger wheels help enormously. 
*
He's still under 50" and he now has the saddle a good 4-5" out of the frame.*

Raising the saddle (perhaps not intuitively) gives better standover... as it them moves back.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Steve-XtC said:


> Raising the saddle (perhaps not intuitively) gives better standover... as it them moves back.


Might give more clearance around the saddle, but really doesn't change the bike's standover unless the toptube is seriously sloped back toward the seat. I doubt top tube clearance is the issue with the OP, just justifying bike size vs. skill set.

If the kid can ride well, with seatpost height properly adjusted for leg extension based on crank length and not being able to touch the ground while seated, 24" would be fine. If they still try to brake by dragging their feet caveman style, 20".


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

watts888 said:


> Might give more clearance around the saddle, but really doesn't change the bike's standover unless the toptube is seriously sloped back toward the seat.


No hugely but .... (This is NEW before mods but with the saddle from his 20er)











> I doubt top tube clearance is the issue with the OP, just justifying bike size vs. skill set.


No neither do I.... but ...



> If the kid can ride well, with seatpost height properly adjusted for leg extension based on crank length and not being able to touch the ground while seated, 24" would be fine. If they still try to brake by dragging their feet caveman style, 20".


Quite.... However... thought it better to mention as obviously an ADULT sized 24" might be different!


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

That's a nice bike for 24". Specs? Looks like a pretty steep headtube angle, but could be the picture angle too.

Why not run disc though? 160mm up front, 140mm in back?


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

watts888 said:


> That's a nice bike for 24". Specs? Looks like a pretty steep headtube angle, but could be the picture angle too.
> 
> Why not run disc though? 160mm up front, 140mm in back?


Specs? 
We went for 160 front and rear simply because it mounted easier ... I got a new SLX boxed off eBay for next to nothing. Front is XT 780. Front Rotor is an Alligator which are 83g in 160mm (and enough stopping power for him). Shifter is XT M780 (mounted on iSpec to the Front Brake... as we drive on the other side so our front/rear brakes are backwards to you)

Now he has new stem £5 and carbon bars £10 , 40T rear and 32T oval narrow wide (Its a UK made Superstar as they were doing a big sale), titanium seatpost (don't trust him with QR and carbon) with a BMX racing saddle (was accidentally discounted but 160g and £13)

XT rear mech (used) and XT 11-36 but with 11T removed and 40T Absolute Black 40T added (that's quite fast enough) ...

I now finished the new wheels (Stans Crests on Novatec d711/712 with CX-ray spokes)

other than the the Stans rims (and 7 of the spokes) nothing at full price most under 50% retail ... so it took a while ....if you look carefully at the rear wheel you'll see 7 spokes are silver not black... but I wasn't paying full price for 64 spokes at £3 each.... and the rest costs me £1 each... (wheels weigh less than my 27.5 Carbon rims with DT swiss hubs and race spokes) ... I didn't actually weigh mine but I can tell picking them up.... but his were 1106g from memory (rims, spokes, nipples and rims)

The only parts of the bike "as purchased" are the frame, headset, forks (reason I purchased) and seat clamp... but the whole bike (2014 model) cost me £250 ... which if I remove the price of the forks means I got the frame, headset and seatpost for about £120

Ooops.. Pedals are AEST 170g/pair titanium axles... another full price item at £30

That said it now weighs under 9.5 kg (21lbs) which makes for more pleasure for me going up hills! (He must prefer it as well since he stopped complaining  and asking for a push)








New photo .... taken between post and edit


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Ah, didn't catch the "NEW before mods" bit.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

I was replying on the iPad whilst he was reading a story out loud so I was a bit distracted 

It's not quite new in the first photo more the early stage franken-bike ... as I'd swapped the cranks for some I shortened and put on a 30T NW chainring, changed the front shifter and rear mech at this point.... as well as changed the rear wheel (cassette and disk) but not the front... hence why still on v brakes... 

Anyway, as you see LOADS of stand-over room


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## Kingfisher2011 (Nov 1, 2011)

Sharp looking bike!

My oldest will be 7 next week. He's taller than most in his class at 51" and is pretty "leggy". I think his inseam is 23" if memory serves. The 20's I had him try even for his height were all a decent fit (we went with a 20" in December), the 24's though were all right at the maximum and the standovers were iffy on most if not too high. Dismounts are sketchy. For what you're talking about and his size (and the siblings) for me the 20" is a no brainer. That said, I can't argue with the results some of these other folks have had with their kids on 24's. All depends on the kid and the geometry of the bike. Sounds like it's time for some test rides.  Good luck and keep us posted. I'd like to know how it turns out.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

paulbram said:


> I know this has been asked before, but I could really use some advice. My son turns 7 this weekend. He's 50 inches tall and has a 21 inch inseam. From what I can gather, he's not quite there yet for a 24 inch bike, but I also realize that by the end of the summer he probably will be.
> 
> Am I making a mistake putting him in a 20? With the seat all the way down on a 24, would he be able to stand over comfortably?


General rule of thumb which I learned from one of my local shops is *you never put someone (kid or adult) on a bike if the wheel size doesn't at least match the inseam length.* Though some bikes do have a curved top tube for more standover clearance so this is just a rough guide. Good kid bike examples are the Cannondale 24" (like Steve posted) and Specialized Riprock. But with the Cannondale, your kid may out grow a medium before fitting a 26" XS size, or you will have to get a 410mm seatpost and longer stem at a minumum.

But the bigger issue is typically the wheelbase, top tube length, and bike weight is too much for a short kid typically weighing less than 50 pounds and riding a stock 27-30 pound bike. In your case, you will probably have to put a 35mm stem at the very minimum so the reach isn't as far, and buy 140mm-ish cranks, as 152 will be too long for a 50" tall kid. As an example, we bought a 24" and actually shelved it for a season because it was just too big for our son until he got a little bit bigger. He was happier on the 20" even though the 24" was way cooler and faster in the neighborhood. So you know where I stand on the topic.

If you feel like geeking out on bike weights to go lighter, Steve-XtC started this great thread.  http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/kids-offroad-bike-weights-component-1006850.html


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

GSJ1973 said:


> If you feel like geeking out on bike weights to go lighter, Steve-XtC started this great thread.  http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/kids-offroad-bike-weights-component-1006850.html


Also did a new crank shortening thread  (Used some used Alivio's this time)

http://forums.mtbr.com/families-rid...livio-second-cranks-much-quicker-1011787.html

The Wake 35mm stems (apologies UK site) Cycling Bicycle Aluminium Alloy MTB Bike Handlebar Stem 31.8mm Optional | eBay

are cheap and light and I got a carbon bar to go with it for £10.... I don't know if I'd trust the stem for a 200 lb adult but it seems pretty good for a 50lb kid... and the bars I thought I'd destructively test ... (at that price I bought 2) but once I had them delivered and tested them I changed my mind and put the second pair on my bike!

When he's taller I'll stick in a dropper post... and longer stem. Possibly the part I can't do much on will be the front height... as Cannondale don't leave much extra stem.... (He has a 10mm spacer on top for now) but I might always raise the front slightly and put some 26" forks on.... prior to a 26XS frame ....

I'm really wondering what sort if frame he'll want by then... and more to the point if my carbon hardtail frame will be up to it! (I keep having mid air visions of landing and my frame snapping in two)


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

paulbram said:


> I know this has been asked before, but I could really use some advice. My son turns 7 this weekend. He's 50 inches tall and has a 21 inch inseam. From what I can gather, he's not quite there yet for a 24 inch bike, but I also realize that by the end of the summer he probably will be. Right now he's swimming in his 16...
> 
> It's his birthday this weekend and I'd like to surprise him with a new bike, so taking him shopping and trying things out isn't exactly what I was planning.
> 
> ...


Maybe at 50" a 24" is stretching things a bit... Here's my son on his new 24". He's 135cm (53.4"). He adapted really fast on the bigger bike, not only on tarmac but "offroad" as well. The bike is 26lbs stock and will get lighter soon. The only thing that is harder for him is manoeuvring OFF the bike. He used to wrestle the bike around but now with more weight (is 20" was 20lbs) he has to learn a trick or two!

He was still fine with his 20 and didn't like the 24" the first time he tried it! But the second time... Boy now I can't believe how much faster he is, but he's not only tall but strong also. So these results might not apply to all kids!


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

My son rode a 20" bike from ages 5-7. At 7, he was way too big for the 20" so I found a 24" Gary Fisher Tyro on Craigslist, bought it for 60 bucks, stripped it to the frame and built it into a 1x10 with disc brakes for him. The 4" increase in wheel diameter upped his game big time. He went from riding only flat, green marker family trails to riding blue and even some black trails. 
In all fairness, I hand built wheels and used pretty expensive tires but it was well worth it in my opinion. He then graduated to a 15" 26er and now at 11, he's riding a medium fat bike. He'll be out growing that pretty soon. He's killin' me.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

LewisQC said:


> Maybe at 50" a 24" is stretching things a bit... Here's my son on his new 24". He's 135cm (53.4"). He adapted really fast on the bigger bike, not only on tarmac but "offroad" as well. The bike is 26lbs stock and will get lighter soon. The only thing that is harder for him is manoeuvring OFF the bike. He used to wrestle the bike around but now with more weight (is 20" was 20lbs) he has to learn a trick or two!
> 
> He was still fine with his 20 and didn't like the 24" the first time he tried it! But the second time... Boy now I can't believe how much faster he is, but he's not only tall but strong also. So these results might not apply to all kids!


I almost commented last night on the getting on/off .. then didn't.

We tried a 24 at the local trail centre hire place. 
I know the staff quite well (well enough to ask an odd favour ... ) and asked if we could try one of the 24er's just to sit on....

The bloke I asked is also a kids cycling coach... and he said to give it 15 minutes.
He was spot on.... just getting on and off the bike I'd have said no.... but 15 minutes of riding round a small dirt (fall friendly) area and getting on/off etc. made all the difference. He didn't actually fall but he wasn't scared of falling onto concrete.

The 24ers are way different ... essentially a real MTB as opposed to a BMX with gears (That's vastly over simplifying I know) .... so it feels completely different.

Anyway, point is don't just try in a shop.... and if possible I'd say if you can hire something for a hour you'll get a far better idea.

Out of curiosity (following GSJ's post) I looked at the frame sizes for the 'dale medium/large ... and found out that the Large Race is larger but the Trail is one size... same as the Medium Race....



gsj1973 said:


> But with the Cannondale, your kid may out grow a medium before fitting a 26" XS size


Thinking about it ... a very valid point. When I bought the 24er Cannondale he did have lots of growth left in the 20... but the change was motivated by getting some decent forks and not spending more money on the 20..... (even without upgrading the Tourney stuff kept breaking and the wheels needed truing to prevent mud/brake/rim noise)

On the OP's impending kids birthday I'd originally stuck him on the 24er a couple of months before XMAS .... so you can work out the intention ... I'd also thought I'd build up the spares bin before buying but having seen availability of the RST Air Forks be somewhat on/off and the price .. I spotted the Medium Cannondale on one the UK bike suppliers that does previous years stock.... and figured I'd buy whilst they still had the 2014 Race... (Even though it was the Girls model only in medium)

At this point I still didn't really know if he'd really fit and was still thinking I'd put the bike away until I'd upgraded etc....as the geometry/size numbers are just numbers till you actually try.

First test was in the back garden (yard) which isn't huge but has grass.... and I set up some "obstacles" for him to test the forks.... the seatpost wouldn't go all the way down (due to the tube length) so I swapped it with the one from his 20er.

The main issue was crank length and the first fix was to his cranks from the 20er as well... once I'd done this and rotated the bars (making reach a bit shorter) he was fine....

So we went through what I referred to earlier as the franken-bike stage.... figured I'd swap the stems as well....

What proved most difficult was decent wheels! One of the members here was actually selling a pair that I didn't snap up fast enough... in retrospect a daft mistake... you can buy 24" wheels easily... but with disk mounts *and* light is another story.... and I didn't want to pay good money for rubbish wheels
(hence we ended up on the rim brakes longer than expected)

Stem and bars were the easiest/cheapest to replace and crank shortening at home turned out to be MUCH easier than I'd expected...

Cost is directly related to how quickly you want something in my experience!

I got a new set of hubs for 40% of the price and most of the spokes for 1/3rd the price... used XT rear mech.and titanium seatpost.. on ebay ... and nearly everything else has been reduced from 50-40%....



gsj said:


> As an example, we bought a 24" and actually shelved it for a season because it was just too big for our son until he got a little bit bigger


I'd say this is an ideal situation if you want a great bike but cost is an issue.

Given the limited frame choice of 24ers.... it's a project you can buy in advance...

It got me thinking about his first 26XS .... but the question then is different as he'll be bigger and stronger but also have the choice of FS and small travel vs larger travel.... and I note (on here) that suspension tuning for kids weight is somewhat difficult as well...


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## wkearney99 (Jun 29, 2016)

I went with a 20" Riprock for my 8yo. Mainly because his height is such that he'd faceplant directly into the gooseneck on most current 24" models. I'm expecting I'll have to replace this sooner that I'd like, but I'll trade THAT expense against dental work any day.

That and the crank length on most 24" was longer than his little legs could effectively utilize. Getting a short crankset for multiple front ring setup wasn't particularly cost-effective either. Trek's two-hole crank positions is a clever in-between, but they didn't have a bike that grabbed his attention as much as the Riprock.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

wkearney99 said:


> That and the crank length on most 24" was longer than his little legs could effectively utilize. Getting a short crankset for multiple front ring setup wasn't particularly cost-effective either. Trek's two-hole crank positions is a clever in-between, but they didn't have a bike that grabbed his attention as much as the Riprock.


First Cranks (bought some SRAM S600 new) cost me £35 + the tap set
Second Set cost me £10 (bought a used Alivio on eBay)


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## wkearney99 (Jun 29, 2016)

There's a balance to be struck between 'right now' as a birthday present and "as soon as we figure out what combination 'might' work". You try presenting the latter to an 8yo on his birthday. 

Now that he's got it, yeah, there's time to investigate ideas like getting a larger front ring, or a multi-ring setup with short cranks. 

Meanwhile he's on an overall setup that's safe for his level of riding skill.


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## Mark194 (Mar 3, 2012)

Go 24, the gearing is better, and the bigger wheels roll over everything better. When my son moved to the 24 inch from the 20, he was a completely different rider and had more fun!!!


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## wkearney99 (Jun 29, 2016)

6 months later and he's still happy as a clam with the 20" Riprock. As I expected the 20" is perfectly suited for his size. 

The only thing I've had to do was adjust the rear brake caliper. He had it fall over on to the caliper and it was just far enough out of alignment to cause the pad to drag. A simple adjustment with a hex wrench handled it.

Meanwhile I'd like to find a bike rack with spaces wide enough for the fat tire on it! One for the yard so the kids can store their bikes with reasonable security while inside playing.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Bike shed time?

If you build it, you will get N+1


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## wkearney99 (Jun 29, 2016)

watts888 said:


> Bike shed time? If you build it, you will get N+1


Already have shed storage (yes, bike qty increases).

This is for afternoons/weekends where kids are rolling up and leaving bikes out all over the front lawn. We've had some increase in bike thefts. I want to encourage putting them in the rack, around the side of the house out of sight from the street. If just to avoid advertising to random passers-by there's a ton of bikes around.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Rack or not, kids probably won't use them. Vague recollections of me as a kid in the long ago time, encourage them to go to the back yard to come inside. Leave the bikes in back, bike rack or on the ground. Keep em in back.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

Some of the best or at least most flexible are just a big chunk of wood for the wheel and cut out the right width. You can slip a lock in separately. My experience of fancy metal ones is they damage the frame at best and at worse the kids can't get the bars in or pedals catch etc...

For a long row of bikes you can use a railway sleeper
One of the bike hire places has one of these and it holds kids to adult sizes and fat and conventional tires.... I can't find a photo right now but it's so much better than the steel ones at a different place where my kid always bangs the bike trying to get it in the rack


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Or wooden palets. Bike tires slide into the slots pretty easy, and with a couple palets, you could make a simple cheap rack. Not the most friendly for disc brakes, but I really like the ramp design for multiple wheel sizes. Just push it up to the axle as far as needed.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/61/8f/f9/618ff9b5be1ce0883b80bf164d236845.jpg
https://www.1001pallets.com/wp-cont...d-wooden-pallets-as-bike-racks-13-600x415.jpg
https://www.1001pallets.com/wp-cont...d-wooden-pallets-as-bike-racks-15-600x450.jpg


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

watts888 said:


> Or wooden palets. Bike tires slide into the slots pretty easy, and with a couple palets, you could make a simple cheap rack. Not the most friendly for disc brakes, but I really like the ramp design for multiple wheel sizes. Just push it up to the axle as far as needed.
> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/61/8f/f9/618ff9b5be1ce0883b80bf164d236845.jpg
> https://www.1001pallets.com/wp-cont...d-wooden-pallets-as-bike-racks-13-600x415.jpg
> https://www.1001pallets.com/wp-cont...d-wooden-pallets-as-bike-racks-15-600x450.jpg


Yep though I'd say that half the pallets are wasted in those examples... (though you can't blame the pallet seller) you can easily use half a pallet in each design ...

The important bit (to me) is that wood won't damage the bike.... and the designs are not aimed at kids handlebar height... which is where the issue comes in at the local trail centre... the metal isn't bike friendly to start but trying to get the bars in leads to all sorts of bangs.

Another cheap but effective material I've seen is using pushlock plastic waste water pipes... 
You simply put these together using the pushlock fittings...


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