# Talking about skills...



## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

.. just watch this kid from Kamloops; Graham Agazzis. He's really young, likes to go big and rip it like a seassoned pro. Amazing:eekster: :eekster:

Interesting how he is doing his own stuff at whistler, and suddenly there is a crowd gathering around him to watch him in action. BTW whistlers' spectators are not an easy public to win.

Dont' forget that name:thumbsup:


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Hes going huge, but not THAT young... Kyle Strait was going as huge or more than him when he was 14.. but Graham has so much potential, especially for slopestyle I guess..


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Sweet riding nevertheless! :thumbsup:


----------



## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

Yeah it was pretty amazing...
The music was horrible though :skep:


----------



## Arbuz (Aug 4, 2006)

I think he saw way too many Cedric movies 
I agree, the music sucks.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Arbuz you are god damn biased for Commencal aint it? I've seen some Commencal activity in DH FR forum, everything by you :skep:


----------



## Warp (May 24, 2004)

Arbuz said:


> I think he saw way too many Cedric movies
> I agree, the music sucks.


Cedric sucks as a competitive cyclist... just one RBR won in '04, a few competitions here and there but no stock to win a WC or Wrold Cup.

Cool guy, I really like him a lot as a rider and showman... but nowhere near Peaty, Minaar, Vouilloz or the likes as a competitive rider.

Huge talent... wasted.

Kyle Strait is totally sick... but when is he going to win a DH race? Maybe not his fortè?


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Kyle is more into fun and freeride than dh racing. But now tell that to Vouilloz ha!!


----------



## Warp (May 24, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> But now tell that to Vouilloz ha!!


Well... as Rito once said to me...

"If FR should have been invented when we started riding..."


----------



## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

Bah, Vouilloz, Peaty, Minaar and all those chumps suck compared to Geoff Kabush :thumbsup: :thumbsup:










No rider has anything that can compare to those patillas :nono:


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Warp said:


> Cedric sucks as a competitive cyclist... just one RBR won in '04, a few competitions here and there but no stock to win a WC or Wrold Cup.
> 
> Cool guy, I really like him a lot as a rider and showman... but nowhere near Peaty, Minaar, Vouilloz or the likes as a competitive rider.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say it's wasted talent... I thunk the guy makes "enough" for a decent life , and taking it easy...

Not all riders are made for "strict competiitive racing"...


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

545cu4ch said:


> Bah, Vouilloz, Peaty, Minaar and all those chumps suck compared to Geoff Kabush :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah those sideburns are the SH!TZ! :lol:


----------



## Warp (May 24, 2004)

crisillo said:


> Yeah those sideburns are the SH!TZ! :lol:


Sideburns are gay... and his bike too... 

Yeah, not making Cedric any less... he's talented, arguably the most complete out there... It's just that someday he should start seriously thinking to be remembered for more than that.

MTB is a sport with ungrateful memory. So he'd rather achieve something more.

Anybody remembers Shaun Palmer? Pretty much like Cedric... Talented, showman, quick... but he never won a thing but some NORBA stuff I guess. Too bad he got to compete with Nico, Myles Rockwell and others who indeed WON championships.


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Warp said:


> Anybody remembers Shaun Palmer? Pretty much like Cedric... Talented, showman, quick... but he never won a thing but some NORBA stuff I guess. Too bad he got to compete with Nico, Myles Rockwell and others who indeed WON championships.


I remember Palmer... I even got a Manitou Fs Ti Palmer Edition (flashy green). He is extremely cool... he still shows up at events for fun... if I remember correctly he showed up one or 2 Sea Otter Classics ago.. and whipped some ass in a slalom event....

And he still in the industry, although not in competition... I guess it just depends on what "life plan" the person has.... some people just don't want go for podium wins 

EDIT: one more thing... Palmer was already a snowboarding star when he came to MTB, so he already had enough podiums


----------



## Warp (May 24, 2004)

crisillo said:


> And he still in the industry, although not in competition... I guess it just depends on what "life plan" the person has.... some people just don't want go for podium wins


That's a good point... those guys really racing they'd better be good at that, because that don't last long (unless your name is Vouilloz, Chausson, Barel, Peat or Lopes).


----------



## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

Warp said:


> That's a good point... those guys really racing they'd better be good at that, because that don't last long (unless your name is Vouilloz, Chausson, Barel, Peat or Lopes).


I have a doubt. How do you pronounce Lopes. Is it "Lopez" or "Low ps" or "Low pez"


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Warp said:


> That's a good point... those guys really racing they'd better be good at that, because that don't last long (unless your name is Vouilloz, Chausson, Barel, Peat or Lopes).


Also Tomac, Juarez, or Overend...

"The Lung" stills whips some serious a$$, when he signs up for a race...


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Freeride wasnt just magically invented, it was always there, but some PR department came up with the label.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

crisillo said:


> Also Tomac, Juarez, or Overend...
> 
> "The Lung" stills whips some serious a$$, when he sings up for a race...


Do you have to sing to enter a race? I can see Brian Lopes singing some Reggaeton in his registration.... :thumbsup:


----------



## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

Warp said:


> Sideburns are gay... and his bike too...  .


Youre just jealous because you dont have sideburns rft:


----------



## Warp (May 24, 2004)

545cu4ch said:


> I have a doubt. How do you pronounce Lopes. Is it "Lopez" or "Low ps" or "Low pez"


Well... you should know that it makes no difference in Mexican Spanish. We pronounce "C", "Z" and "S" just the same.

If you were in Spain, then it would be a problem.

Right, FR existed from long ago but the tools were not invented until late 90's.

Back in the day, we did FR, AM, XC and DH on the same bike. Riding was very different back then. It's hard to explain unless you have had the chance to ride back then. Those old enough will get my point.

Riding has evolved way too much in the last five years. From the beginning of the sport to mid 90's it remained basically unchanged... then it started to evolve slowly and by '99 and on ... BAM!!!! Then we had like 5 disciplines (or more depending on the part of the world you are, because Euros think Enduro is something different to what we think of it).


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> Do you have to sing to enter a race? I can see Brian Lopes singing some Reggaeton in his registration.... :thumbsup:


Whoops.. sorry..typo corrected  (my spell checker doesn't correct correctly-süelled-wrongly-used-words... wierd, huh?  )


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Warp said:


> W
> 
> Riding has evolved way too much in the last five years. From the beginning of the sport to mid 90's it remained basically unchanged... then it started to evolve slowly and by '99 and on ... BAM!!!! Then we had like 5 disciplines (or more depending on the part of the world you are, because Euros think Enduro is something different to what we think of it).


Yep... I started MTBing when I was 12... oh the good ol' days! Spending hours drooling at a Mag 21 and Manitou 2.. I rode rigid for a couple of years before i got my 1st suspension fork...


----------



## Warp (May 24, 2004)

crisillo said:


> Yep... I started MTBing when I was 12... oh the good ol' days! Spending hours drooling at a Mag 21 and Manitou 2.. I rode rigid for a couple of years before i got my 1st suspension fork...


I dunno how old are you, but I started around 1989... yeah, those MAG were the sheit!

I still remember the old Konas Sex 1 and 2, the Slingshots (still around) and yeah... drooling about those new-exotic Marzocchi forks.

Remember when MTB groups included headset and seatpost?
Darts? Smoke? Ground Control? Biopace? Under the chainstays brakes? Side-pull brakes?

Dang... I'm old...


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Warp said:


> I dunno how old are you, but I started around 1989... yeah, those MAG were the sheit!
> 
> I still remember the old Konas Sex 1 and 2, the Slingshots (still around) and yeah... drooling about those new-exotic Marzocchi forks.
> 
> ...


Yep.. I rode trails in BMX for years, but I got my first 26" MTB back in 92.... I worked at the Trek dealer in CR for every summer during middle/high school...

Yeah... it was really cool to see the technology evolve.... yeah.. the gruppos back then included everything.. even pedals with toeclips :lol:

The U-brakes were a pain.. a friend of mine still has a Klein form the early 90's and sometimes i help him out adjusting those brakes... :skep:

I remember I loved the Smoke/Dart combo... I had it on my 96 Trek 8000... theat Trek lasted almost 8 years.. it was replaced by a 2003 Spec Epic... wow.. that 8000 was a great bike...


----------



## Gambox (Jun 30, 2004)

Fabien Barel is the man!! :rockon:


----------



## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

crisillo said:


> I wouldn't say it's wasted talent... I thunk the guy makes "enough" for a decent life , and taking it easy...
> 
> Not all riders are made for "strict competiitive racing"...


Totally agree


----------



## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

Warp said:


> Sideburns are gay... and his bike too...
> 
> Yeah, not making Cedric any less... he's talented, arguably the most complete out there... It's just that someday he should start seriously thinking to be remembered for more than that.
> 
> ...


Interesting... how about Simons, or Schley... will they be remembered? did they ever won a competition?... I think there is so much more than competing; competing is just the formal side of our sport, not the only side though.

Cedric, yeah, none can argue he doesn't have skills. Nevertheless, he is more of showman, I mean hi is in the competitive scene of the sport, but hi is known by his skills not by his podium places.


----------



## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

crisillo said:


> I remember Palmer... I even got a Manitou Fs Ti Palmer Edition (flashy green). He is extremely cool... he still shows up at events for fun... if I remember correctly he showed up one or 2 Sea Otter Classics ago.. and whipped some ass in a slalom event....
> 
> And he still in the industry, although not in competition... I guess it just depends on what "life plan" the person has.... some people just don't want go for podium wins
> 
> EDIT: one more thing... Palmer was already a snowboarding star when he came to MTB, so he already had enough podiums


I remember Palmer, he was like the X man (form the X games). As far as I remember, back in the day he was also competitive in MX and snowboarding. He's really skilled but as we use to say "el que mucho abarca poco aprieta". Had he commited to just one sport he might turned to be a leyend... we'll never know.


----------



## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

Warp said:


> Well... you should know that it makes no difference in Mexican Spanish. We pronounce "C", "Z" and "S" just the same.
> 
> If you were in Spain, then it would be a problem.
> 
> ...


ufff... in 2001 when I started riding, a 100mm fork was way too much travel. Yeah, our sport has evolved a lot, and we have to give credit to technology for that. That is why JT is still beating the young boys in the kamikazee's, coz he needed to have skills in order to ride at his level back in his glory days.


----------



## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> Freeride wasnt just magically invented, it was always there, but some PR department came up with the label.


That is partially truth, yup the FR mindset have been around since the begining of MTB (actually MTB born as FR); however there were no equipment specific until a few years ago. PR, or the maketing hype on FR did not only came to sell more bikes but it also gave a new direction to R&D and bike design; designs that allow riders to ride and do stuff thought impossible 5 years ago. Even if we like it or not, the MTB world completely changed after someone decided to cash in the FR label.


----------



## Arbuz (Aug 4, 2006)

tacubaya said:


> Arbuz you are god damn biased for Commencal aint it? I've seen some Commencal activity in DH FR forum, everything by you :skep:


True. When I wrote the response I was thinking to myself that it was I who has watched too many Cedric films.

But he is a showman, no doubt. He is also a great rider and as long as they do good for the sport, call it entertainment or call it trophies and prizes. I care about the sport and getting people to ride and respect all riders 

Anyway, that kid does ride and film like CG 

Nice intro: http://www.fabienbarel.com/blog/


----------



## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

Warp said:


> Well... you should know that it makes no difference in Mexican Spanish. We pronounce "C", "Z" and "S" just the same.
> 
> If you were in Spain, then it would be a problem.
> 
> ...


They guy at Oakley spoke Brian Lopes as 'Brian Loups'  or something like that.... weird.

I think that Cannondale was the one that came with the term 'Freeride' and even patented it, but they left it alone when everybody just starting using it.

Warp, I know you're old and need a riding cane and such, but I think that before you only had one bike and did whatever you could with it, but I doubt you could do what you do today on a modern bike. Specially, they guys that are pushing the envelope are always doing things that you coulnd't do a while ago.


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

ritopc said:


> I remember Palmer, he was like the X man (form the X games). As far as I remember, back in the day he was also competitive in MX and snowboarding. He's really skilled but as we use to say "el que mucho abarca poco aprieta". Had he commited to just one sport he might turned to be a leyend... we'll never know.


He did commit to one.. snowboarding... in snowboarding circles, his name still comes up very often...


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

rzozaya1969 said:


> They guy at Oakley spoke Brian Lopes as 'Brian Loups'  or something like that.... weird.
> 
> I think that Cannondale was the one that came with the term 'Freeride' and even patented it, but they left it alone when everybody just starting using it.
> 
> Warp, I know you're old and need a riding cane and such, but I think that before you only had one bike and did whatever you could with it, but I doubt you could do what you do today on a modern bike. Specially, they guys that are pushing the envelope are always doing things that you coulnd't do a while ago.


Yep.. Freeride was a Cannondale creation... I remember the ads... but don't remember what was the model they launched with the term....


----------



## Warp (May 24, 2004)

crisillo said:


> Yep.. Freeride was a Cannondale creation... I remember the ads... but don't remember what was the model they launched with the term....


IT had to be the "V" Series that ended up with the Raven, but before then they won lots of Championships with them. I guess "Smiles" Rockwell won his WC on that one.

Those had like 120mm back in the day....

Rzoz... That was my point, we used to ride everything on one bike because that was what we had... and obviously people started to break frames when pushing the envelope. Many rode within the limitations of their frames (and the safety provided by them) and that's why it took very long before we heard about someone hucking 30ft. That's why someone came up with better weapons and then someone else called it "Freeride". However, it took a good decade of the sport for the industry to realize the needs of this sector of riders.

Today, as it was back then, you can ride everything with just one bike. But now you find the limits of the sport (to both sides) are much stretched and you find you'll need more specific tools to go to either side. Wanna go big? You need a FR specific bike. Wanna Race? No way if you don't have a light enough XC dedicated weight weenie. If you commit to one bike, you'll end up with limited riding due to your "limited" equipment.

Rito.... Now we have a category where to remember Richie Schley, Bearclaw and Kyle.


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Warp said:


> IT had to be the "V" Series that ended up with the Raven, but before then they won lots of Championships with them. I guess "Smiles" Rockwell won his WC on that one.
> 
> Those had like 120mm back in the day....


Yeah probably it was the Super V DH...I remembered the horizontal tube (see pic) that's why i didn't think it was still a super V, since normal Vs didn't have it...


----------



## mtbgiovanny (Feb 13, 2006)

Gambox said:


> Fabien Barel is the man!! :rockon:


yeah he's the best


----------



## Warp (May 24, 2004)

crisillo said:


> Yeah probably it was the Super V DH...I remembered the horizontal tube (see pic) that's why i didn't think it was still a super V, since normal Vs didn't have it...


There was one with a "scissor's link", much like the KHS Ditchwitch (?), but slightly different on how it worked. IT was the direct predecessor of the Gemini.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Maybe you mean KHS Witch Doctor, even though it was four bar...


----------



## Warp (May 24, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> Maybe you mean KHS Witch Doctor, even though it was four bar...


Nope.... KHS Dominatrax... Scissors link, not four bar...


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Oh, sorry, even tough they look similar in the top tube and so...


----------



## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

tacubaya said:


> Oh, sorry, even tough they look similar in the top tube and so...


Thats the F U G L I E S T bike I have ever seen. Uglier than Geoff Kabush's tight lycras :eekster:


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Uglier than this ones?



















OR THIS POS?










jk


----------



## Warp (May 24, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> Uglier than this ones?
> OR THIS POS?
> 
> jk


That one is fugly... fuglier than hitting your "dearly twins" with a rubber band...


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Warp said:


> That one is fugly... fuglier than hitting your "dearly twins" with a rubber band...


Hahahaha :thumbsup:


----------



## anteopolis (Mar 11, 2006)

crisillo said:


> Yep.. Freeride was a Cannondale creation... I remember the ads... but don't remember what was the model they launched with the term....


THe Super V2000 FreeRide.
Equipada con rines Mavic para disco, discos CODA CompactDisc, shock Fox RX, crank Tarantula con bigring de 44 dientes y fork HeadShox Moto FR. Todo esto en el 97'.
El ad que apareció en el número de septiembre de 1997 de MBA dice:
_FREERIDE IT'S WHAT YOU DO.
Wouldn't it be fun to have a glorius, lifetime supply of precision-balanced, super long travel dual-suspension? Wouldn't it be fun to go way too fast way too often?Wouldn't it be fun to have all-weather, ultra-sensitive hydraulic disc brakes that don't grin your rims to shreds? Wouldn't it be fun to make mistake and laugh about it?

Wouldn't it be fun to just have fun for a change?_

Ahora bien, en un artículo publicado en ese mismo número mencionan que la Beast, de ProFlex (a.k.a. K2) fué la primer bici de ese tipo pues contaba con barra de doble altura, fork de doble corona y frenos hidráulicos (aunque aún no discos).


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

anteopolis said:


> THe Super V2000 FreeRide.
> Equipada con rines Mavic para disco, discos CODA CompactDisc, shock Fox RX, crank Tarantula con bigring de 44 dientes y fork HeadShox Moto FR. Todo esto en el 97'.
> El ad que apareció en el número de septiembre de 1997 de MBA dice:
> _FREERIDE IT'S WHAT YOU DO.
> ...


Si, creo que esa es! 'chas gracias!  :thumbsup:


----------



## elmadaleno (Jul 8, 2005)

Warp said:


> Sideburns are gay... and his bike too...
> .


I agree!!! I used to think sub 24 pound 3" bikes were cool!!!:thumbsup:


----------



## Arbuz (Aug 4, 2006)

545cu4ch said:


> Thats the F U G L I E S T bike I have ever seen. Uglier than Geoff Kabush's tight lycras :eekster:


Oh my eyes :eekster:

Esa es la Coyoxautli de las bicicletas 

Apenas con unos racks thule en un GM Aztek 

Luego chequense el video promo de IH http://www.ironhorsebikes.com/


----------



## anteopolis (Mar 11, 2006)

Warp said:


> There was one with a "scissor's link", much like the KHS Ditchwitch (?), but slightly different on how it worked. IT was the direct predecessor of the Gemini.


Sí, la Cannondale Fulcrum DH, pero me parece que nunca hiceron un modelo para la venta, sino que fué de uso exclusivo de su equipo. Después de la Fulcrum vino la Gemini, que originalmente tenía dos shox y doble basculante, cada uno operaba independiente del otro; sin embargo lo modoficaron a la versión que ahora todos conocemos.
Igual y me equivoco. En cuanto tenga tiempo subo fotos de las mafufadas que estoy escribiendo.


----------



## anteopolis (Mar 11, 2006)

*Pics:*

Van unas...


----------



## anteopolis (Mar 11, 2006)

*Más pics:*

Van otras...


----------



## anteopolis (Mar 11, 2006)

*Y la última...*

Ya.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Wow, que raro que le siguieran llamando Gemini sin tener dos shocks, y ademas la de dos shocks solo fue para Anne Caroline no?

Muy interesante ese sistema de suspension, al parecer dejaba la rueda moverse libremente en 16 pulgadas cubicas no?


----------



## anteopolis (Mar 11, 2006)

tacubaya said:


> Wow, que raro que le siguieran llamando Gemini sin tener dos shocks, y ademas la de dos shocks solo fue para Anne Caroline no?
> 
> Muy interesante ese sistema de suspension, al parecer dejaba la rueda moverse libremente en 16 pulgadas cubicas no?


Sí, eso es algo que siempre me ha extrañado.  
Según lo que tengo (y medio re-leí) esta fué diseñada originalmente para Cedric Gracia. Supongo que después lo usaron otros miembros del Volvo-Cannondale.
De lo otro no sé, sólo dice que es para situaciones en las cuales la bici esté en demasiado cerca de 90° vertical, la segunda suspensión se active y deje el basculante en su posición neutral, también ayuda durante el frenado pues no tenía montura flotante.

Me pregunto el porqué habrán regresado a su diseño de siempre.


----------

