# Ritchey Serial # question



## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

I know that the Ritchey serial numbers aren't a science but, I am trying to understand them. I have a Timber Comp with serial number 8B169. So this means 18" frame of the B Series number 169. Does the 169 refer to that model year i.e. the 169th Timber Comp of 1987?

http://www.topshelfbikes.com/bicycles/ritchey/timber-comp-8b169.html


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

bushpig said:


> I know that the Ritchey serial numbers aren't a science but, I am trying to understand them. I have a Timber Comp with serial number 8B169. So this means 18" frame of the B Series number 169. Does the 169 refer to that model year i.e. the 169th Timber Comp of 1987?


8 = size 18 inch
B = Timber Comp or Timber Wolf
169 = 169th frame in sequence from the introduction of the model

However, there's a small chance that 169 is really the 169th 18-inch frame B-frame built.

The numbers did not reset from year to year. Some frames do appear to be have been out of order. Potentially they were frames that needed some sort of rework, or were misplaced.

There was also a "B series" frame that pre-dated the Timber Comp/Wolf. The McKinley and Mt Tam were the original "B-series" - made from the Mountain Bikes II frameset (the headtube is not milled out on this series).


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

169th total


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

Trying to decifer Ritchey serial#'s makes my head spin :crazy: ut:  :bluefrown: :idea: :cryin: 


but lean towards FB on this one, but not too close :nono:


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> 8 = size 18 inch
> B = Timber Comp or Timber Wolf
> 
> Commando's are also "B" frame's  .......but you could get a Everest / Anna / Super Comp or Team Comp done in Camo also


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

kb11 said:


> Trying to decifer Ritchey serial#'s makes my head spin :crazy: ut:  :bluefrown: :idea: :cryin:
> 
> but lean towards FB on this one, but not too close :nono:


I should clarify by saying 169th Timber Comp. I personally dont think its the 169th 18 incher although my exhaustive research is not yet conclusive. 

I think the serial numbers are pretty straight forward although they dont give a clear indication of the year or month, but if you study oldmountainbikes.com you can kinda figure that out. We once discovered the exact number I think where the name change from Team Comp to Super Comp took place but I forgot what it was.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

kb11 said:


> Commando's are also "B" frame's  .......but you could get a Everest / Anna / Super Comp or Team Comp done in Camo also


A Commando is just a Timber Comp with a special paint job and blacked out components. The frames are identical


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> A Commando is just a Timber Comp with a special paint job and blacked out components. The frames are identical


...the same except for the Commando gets all optional braze-ons (ie rack, front rack, fender, shoulder strap, etc)...


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I should clarify by saying 169th Timber Comp. I personally dont think its the 169th 18 incher although my exhaustive research is not yet conclusive.
> 
> I think the serial numbers are pretty straight forward although they dont give a clear indication of the year or month, but if you study oldmountainbikes.com you can kinda figure that out. We once discovered the exact number I think where the name change from Team Comp to Super Comp took place but I forgot what it was.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Congratulations BP, you have an Ascent.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

BP, your serial number is older ('85ish) but the decals are newer ('88ish). Was it possible that it was repaint?

Check the chain stay lengths. Earlier frames had 17.4" stays. They were shortened to 17.25" in either '87 or '88.


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> ...the same except for the Commando gets all optional braze-ons (ie rack, front rack, fender, shoulder strap, etc)...


couldnt you also get the optional braze-ons on a Everest / Anna / Super Comp or Team Comp if so desired?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Yep. As you can see, the Timber Comp in question also has optional braze-ons but isn't a Commando.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> BP, your serial number is older ('85ish) but the decals are newer ('88ish). Was it possible that it was repaint?
> 
> Check the chain stay lengths. Earlier frames had 17.4" stays. They were shortened to 17.25" in either '87 or '88.


actually, I think it's an Oakley frame rebadged with Ritchey decals.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

kb11 said:


> couldnt you also get the optional braze-ons on a Everest / Anna / Super Comp or Team Comp if so desired?


You could get them on any of the fillet brazed frames if you ordered it that way. However, the Commando automatically came with them - it was a package deal with the paint.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> actually, I think it's an Oakley frame rebadged with Ritchey decals.


you mean the glasses?


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

:smilewinkgrin:


bushpig said:


> Yep. As you can see, the Timber Comp in question also has optional braze-ons but isn't a Commando.


Isnt this a Hollywood Commando in glamouflage :yesnod:


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

bushpig said:


> Yep. As you can see, the Timber Comp in question also has optional braze-ons but isn't a Commando.


Doesnt have front or rear rack braze ons like the Commando, but does have optional shoulder strap and cool fb stem.

I guess those options would allow a lowly "B" frame to be considered a "top shelf" bike...


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

kb11 said:


> :smilewinkgrin:
> 
> Isnt this a Hollywood Commando in glamouflage :yesnod:


dick told me he pulled this right out of a gay pride parade...:thumbsup:


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Doesnt have front or rear rack braze ons like the Commando, but does have optional shoulder strap and cool fb stem.
> 
> I guess those options would allow a lowly "B" frame to be considered a "top shelf" bike...


:eekster: :eekster: :eekster:


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

A quick perusal of topshelfbikes will show you that the appellation is used somewhat loosely at times.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

bushpig said:


> A quick perusal of topshelfbikes will show you that the appellation is used somewhat loosely at times.


I kid... I think its a pretty cool little bike.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

bushpig said:


> A quick perusal of topshelfbikes will show you that the appellation is used somewhat loosely at times.


BP.... you need pics.


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

BP, how does this frame measure up with your other '87 TC? I mean chainstarys/dropouts


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

colker1 said:


> BP.... you need pics.


Bring your camera next time you visit NYC.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

bushpig said:


> A quick perusal of topshelfbikes will show you that the appellation is used somewhat loosely at times.


I just assumed it referred to where you kept them.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

kb11 said:


> Trying to decifer Ritchey serial#'s makes my head spin :crazy: ut:  :bluefrown: :idea: :cryin:
> 
> :


mine too

0C70


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

hollister said:


> mine too
> 
> 0C70


I would assume that to be a '85 Team Comp, is it not?


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

kb11 said:


> I would assume that to be a '85 Team Comp, is it not?


 aside from old mountain bikes how does one arrive at 85 ?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

kb11 said:


> BP, how does this frame measure up with your other '87 TC? I mean chainstarys/dropouts


Both seem tohave 17.25" chainstays supah short :|


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

hollister said:


> aside from old mountain bikes how does one arrive at 85 ?


The last Team Comp was close to #1C85 and made in '86, I suppose your's could be '86 also. If you have the original componets check the mfg date


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

kb11 said:


> The last Team Comp was close to #1C85 and made in '86, I suppose your's could be '86 also. If you have the original componets check the mfg date


KB knows what he talks about. 

The frame was likely made in '86 or '87, but would have been described in the '86 catalog. The models really didn't change on a model year basis, so the exact year is not real important. Yours is a later Team Comp. The model switched to the "Super Comp", and was called that from '87 on.


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## stan4bikes (May 24, 2006)

*ah so!!!!*



Fillet-brazed said:


> actually, I think it's an Oakley frame rebadged with Ritchey decals.


so with some simple decifering that makes mine a Potts rebadged as an Oakley


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

laffeaux said:


> KB knows what he talks about.
> 
> The frame was likely made in '86 or '87, but would have been described in the '86 catalog. The models really didn't change on a model year basis, so the exact year is not real important. Yours is a later Team Comp. The model switched to the "Super Comp", and was called that from '87 on.


I've got a Team/Super Comp with serial number 9C86.


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

bushpig said:


> I've got a Team/Super Comp with serial number 9C86.


OK, 1C85 is a Team Comp and 9C87 a Super Comp, virtually the only difference is the frame tubeing and fork angle, Columbus for the Team and Prestige for the Super, which is yours BP? How about a pic?


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

laffeaux said:


> KB knows what he talks about.
> 
> The frame was likely made in '86 or '87, but would have been described in the '86 catalog. The models really didn't change on a model year basis, so the exact year is not real important. Yours is a later Team Comp. The model switched to the "Super Comp", and was called that from '87 on.


you all deemed it a team, but it has canti's in the rear

i see some do, some don't, whats the deal?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

No pics as it is getting paint. I'll post pics some time in the next couple of years when it comes back.


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

bushpig said:


> No pics as it is getting paint. I'll post pics some time in the next couple of years when it comes back.


Do you know what the tubing was?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

hollister said:


> you all deemed it a team, but it has canti's in the rear
> 
> i see some do, some don't, whats the deal?


you could ask Tom to do whatever you wanted.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

kb11 said:


> Do you know what the tubing was?


Columbus


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

kb11 said:


> OK, 1C85 is a Team Comp and 9C87 a Super Comp, virtually the only difference is the frame tubeing and fork angle, Columbus for the Team and Prestige for the Super, which is yours BP? How about a pic?


the stays are different too Im pretty sure along with different tubing diameters. The Team Comp is the grand daddy of the P series. It morphed into the Super Comp and then it morphed into the P-23 and so on...


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

hollister said:


> you all deemed it a team, but it has canti's in the rear
> 
> i see some do, some don't, whats the deal?


All the Teams and Super's had canti's as standard, but you could order rollercams/U brake's, Only the '88 Super came with U brakes standard, but you could get cantis if you wanted. 

Here's a couple of '88's


















And Sky's '85Team with rollercam's front and rear


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

kb11 said:


> All the Teams and Super's had canti's as standard, but you could order rollercams/U brake's, Only the '88 Super came with U brakes standard, but you could get cantis if you wanted.


Ive got a Super Comp with roller cams front and rear.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

kb11 said:


> All the Teams and Super's had canti's as standard, but you could order rollercams/U brake's, Only the '88 Super came with U brakes standard, but you could get cantis if you wanted.
> 
> Here's a couple of '88's
> 
> ...


been tracking ownership of that first one, interesting

red and white seems to be the theme, need to find the right stem


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> the stays are different too Im pretty sure along with different tubing diameters.


According to the '86 catalog (the first to give frame dimensions) The Team Comp has 17" stays. The '88 catalog says that the Super Comp has 16.9" stays.

I own two Team Comps, both have 17.5" stays. It just goes to show you that what was being produced, did not always match the catalogs.

If the paint is original it helps distinguish the models too. All Team Comps are supposed to be painted red. However, some where painted pink (women's race team bikes?) and I have a white one (made by special request from Blackburn). The Super Comps came with red/white, red/yellow, and possibly other paint schemes.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

hollister said:


> been tracking ownership of that first one, interesting


Owner of that bike is a pretty cool guy.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

bushpig said:


> Owner of that bike is a pretty cool guy.


i keep hoping the new owner will take some new pics of the bike


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

bushpig said:


> Columbus


BP, yours is probably the last Team Comp then, the Supers were Prestige


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

*Ritchey Ebay Score...*

I'm happy to have won this frame today. Serial # is P727; so I know it's a P-Series of some sort, but I don't know the model. Seller (are you here?) said it was likely a 1990. I think this is based on the 1989 in the Championship decal. Was 1989 on there for multiple years?

If it is a 1990, I suppose it must be a P-23 (non-team, as it's TIG'd). In any case, I'm quite happy - I've wanted a Ritchey for some time and didn't expect a P-series of any kind at this price. I'll get pics up once I get it and clean it up.

This is very non-blue-collar for me and may warrant paint and decals...we'll see. Here are Ebay pics for now:

EDIT: The relatively high number after "P", makes me think this is newer, but I also realize these don't seem to be in order...?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

cegrover said:


> I'm happy to have won this frame today. Serial # is P727; so I know it's a P-Series of some sort, but I don't know the model. Seller (are you here?) said it was likely a 1990. I think this is based on the 1989 in the Championship decal. Was 1989 on there for multiple years?
> 
> If it is a 1990, I suppose it must be a P-23 (non-team, as it's TIG'd). In any case, I'm quite happy - I've wanted a Ritchey for some time and didn't expect a P-series of any kind at this price. I'll get pics up once I get it and clean it up.
> 
> ...


I saw that. Amazing deal you got. I was watching the final minutes and almost threw in a bid on principal.

Based on the decals and serial number, I would think this puts you newer than 90 (like you said).

Looks like its in fantastic shape, so I see no reason for new paint or decals.

Stan and his MonkeyWrench Cycles counterparts are top notch and quasi-regulars here. You can be sure the bike is a clean example and will be shipped properly.


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

cegrover said:


> I'm happy to have won this frame today. Serial # is P727; so I know it's a P-Series of some sort, but I don't know the model. Seller (are you here?) said it was likely a 1990. I think this is based on the 1989 in the Championship decal. Was 1989 on there for multiple years?
> 
> If it is a 1990, I suppose it must be a P-23 (non-team, as it's TIG'd). In any case, I'm quite happy - I've wanted a Ritchey for some time and didn't expect a P-series of any kind at this price. I'll get pics up once I get it and clean it up.
> 
> ...


Nice score :thumbsup: I suspect its newer also, at least '93 based on the tubing decals, '90-'92 P series used this decal









Here is the '93 and later tubing decal for Ritchey Logic Prestige, there is also a WCS Ritchey Prestige decal used for the P-21 and P-22 that is simular










If your frame has rear Ritchey dropouts then its a '91 or later, also the Ritchey bottom bracket shell was released in '92 https://www.oldmountainbikes.com/catalogs/ritchey/1992/ritchey_components1992_15.jpg

No way of really knowing what model it is as there are no available records for the serial #'s , but all this really doesnt matter, you have a Ritchey now so go ride it and enjoy


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

Thanks for the info, KB. I hope to get it soon to figure out what it is and, mostly importantly, to get it built and ready to ride!

A little more research says this may be a Crazy Pete if the color isn't custom. It looks like the seat tube area is fillet brazed and the rest is TIG'd, which would be consistent. As you say, though, it doesn't really matter...it's a Ritchey one way or another.

https://www.oldmountainbikes.com/catalogs/ritchey/1995/ritchey1995_04.jpg


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## salsa-luma (Jun 8, 2007)

Pretty sure that is a Crazy Pete. I didn't bid based on research...


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

bushpig said:


> I've got a Team/Super Comp with serial number 9C86.


Hey Mines 9C87 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Ive got a Super Comp with roller cams front and rear.


Yep, me too
had a choice of geometry too, 69 or 70 degree head tube. :thumbsup:


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## markschuler (Mar 25, 2008)

Hey !! You outbid me:madman: Oh well, at least it went to a fellow VRC member:thumbsup: 

Mark


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## Fillet Brazed Forever (May 11, 2008)

Don't forget that it also had a bunch more braze ons.


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

I was going to bid on that but..... You can have too many ritcheys 
Plus I realy want a supercomp frameset

I think the only way to tell if this is a p series or a crazy pete is the reinforcement rings at the head tube. If it has them its a p series. Lack of or just one at the bottom (I dont remember which) is a pete.



cegrover said:


> I'm happy to have won this frame today. Serial # is P727; so I know it's a P-Series of some sort, but I don't know the model. Seller (are you here?) said it was likely a 1990. I think this is based on the 1989 in the Championship decal. Was 1989 on there for multiple years?
> 
> If it is a 1990, I suppose it must be a P-23 (non-team, as it's TIG'd). In any case, I'm quite happy - I've wanted a Ritchey for some time and didn't expect a P-series of any kind at this price. I'll get pics up once I get it and clean it up.
> 
> ...


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## bmor_62 (Nov 22, 2010)

I rescued a bike from someones trash last summer, something about it caught my eye and compelled me to drive back and take it. Well today I finally found the Ritchey logo stamped on the dropouts! Serial number is P960410 if I am reading it correctly, its been painted over in a black matte finish. Any info y'all could give me would be much appreciated, I've already been on oldmountainbikes.com.
What I know is it has; 
-vertical integrated dropouts
-slotted cable stops
- Ritchey logic headset
:thumbsup:


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

bmor_62 said:


> I rescued a bike from someones trash last summer, something about it caught my eye and compelled me to drive back and take it. Well today I finally found the Ritchey logo stamped on the dropouts! Serial number is P960410 if I am reading it correctly, its been painted over in a black matte finish. Any info y'all could give me would be much appreciated, I've already been on oldmountainbikes.com.
> What I know is it has;
> -vertical integrated dropouts
> -slotted cable stops
> ...


Ritchey dropouts do not a Ritchey bike make. Do yo have any pics?

Note this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/ritchey-design-syncros/builders-used-ritchey-dropouts-645029.html


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## bmor_62 (Nov 22, 2010)

Yes somebody pointed that out to me, looks like a Rocky. Anybody know of a cross ref/database of Rocky serial numbers? My post count is too low to post images or links.


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## Quik66 (Jun 26, 2012)

bmor_62 said:


> I rescued a bike from someones trash last summer, something about it caught my eye and compelled me to drive back and take it.


Someone threw away a Ritchey frame...

My brother made a wind chime out of his Ritchey (supposedly hand welded by Tom himself)... Literally...

He ordered it through some bke shop in Palo Alto, but the shop insisted he needed a shorter frame. My brother being kind of easy going, let them talk him into it ( he really wanted a comfortable cruising bike for most of his rides (mostly street, with some fire roads)... It never was as comfortable as his older Ritchey, so he never rode it (maybe a few hundred miles, if that). He thought about going back, tried to sell it a few times on the internet, but ended up parking it...

Eventually, he swapped all the components to the older Ritchey, and cut the tubing up, and hung it off a crank sprocket... He cut it in such a way to leave the "RITCHEY" decals whole...

Crazy guy...


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## wxflyer (Apr 30, 2006)

Please don't post a picture of that...


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