# Helmet Light with Internal Battery Recomendations



## Tjeep_1999 (Dec 4, 2012)

Tittle pretty much sums it up. I did find some older internal battery threads on the topic, but nothing recent (all were pre 2016). All the recent posts seem to be about ones with external batteries, but I'm definitely looking for internal battery only. It will have to be light weight and reliable. Ride time is 1-2 hours, but that's about it as I just need something to make it out of the trails with it getting darker sooner. It will be for single track riding... lots of roots/rocks. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Tjeep_1999 said:


> .....but I'm definitely looking for internal battery only. It will have to be light weight


You won't get lightweight in an internal battery light. The current fave it seems around here is the Ituo WIZ20. With mount, it's nearly 300 grams! Personally, I can't imagine riding rooty, rocky trails with that much extra weight on the lid, YMMV.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

^^x2

The best option right now really is the Ituo Wiz1 or Wiz2. Their lighter than the Wiz20 (which doesnt have a helmet mount available for it), use gopro style mounts and enough light to finish up a ride. I actually used one the other night. 

Was out clearing some downfall on my local trail and only light I had on me was a WIZ1. Didnt want to just head back cause it was getting dark. Used to to light up the last downed tree I needed to cut up, then used it to get back to the trail head. Was surprisingly more than enough as I was on my fat bike carrying a chainsaw and such so was going slow. The nice neutral warm tint of the light and mixed pattern worked out really well. Its not a light for really high speeds (on its own) but tight and twisty stuff it worked great!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

...adding to what others have said; Wiz-1 or 2 is an option. I have the Wiz-1 and find that if I mount it on the helmet it just feels too heavy. Now if I take out the 26650 cell than it's much better. Wiz-2 uses an 18650 cell which is lighter.. I can use the Wiz-1 with an 18650 cell but need an adapter. I put an 18650 cell in mine ( just now ) and it feels much better. I might just have to give this a try on my next ride. The only thing about using the Wiz-1 on the helmet is...I wish I could move the Gopro mount more to the center of the helmet. My helmet vents don't line up that way though.

Option two; Use a standard 18650 torch and find a way to attach it to your helmet. For years ( when I want to go super-lightweight ) I'll use my cheap Ultrafire 501-B drop-in torch and mount it to the helmet using just a Velcro strap. On my helmet it lines up perfectly ( lucky me ), no need to do anything to aim it. It's so light I don't even feel any difference. I use a custom XM-L2 3-steady mode drop-in ( with OP reflector ) inside the 501-B. The beam pattern is narrow but not super spotty. You can buy drop-ins ( using different UI, emitters, reflectors ) at a lot of places.

Now if your helmet won't accommodate a torch but will work with a Gopro mount system; see if you can buy one of these somewhere. I'd like to have one of those myself! With one of those you could mount any torch to a helmet as long as your helmet works with a Gopro helmet mount system. Nice thing about having the Gopro set-up is that it allows you to "easily aim" the light which is very important.

Self-contained and wireless set-ups have their negatives though. If the lamp is too heavy it will be uncomfortable either on your head, neck or both. Add to that if it's too heavy your helmet might have some tendencies to slide around. Gopro mounting could have some negatives also. Since G/P mounts sets the lamp higher off the helmet there will be some "pendulum effect". The heavier/higher the lamp the more the P.E. Keep the helmet's center of gravity low and you're good to go. 
Find a system with a weight you can live with on the helmet, keep it as close to the helmet as possible and you should have a nice wireless/self-contained helmet set-up.


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## Tjeep_1999 (Dec 4, 2012)

Thank you for all the info guys... gave me a lot to think about. I might revisit the wired idea based on feedback, but for now I'll look at the WIZ2 as it is the lighter of the options.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

IMO any twin emitter lamp with a separate two cell battery strapped to the back of your helmet will be more comfortable as the weight is spread out,, over an all in one sitting at the top of your lid. advantages are more light output longer run times and lower center of gravity. And if you mount your lamp above the visor instead of up top you reduce the chances of hitting low branches.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

indebt said:


> IMO any twin emitter lamp with a separate two cell battery strapped to the back of your helmet will be more comfortable as the weight is spread out,, over an all in one sitting at the top of your lid. advantages are more light output longer run times and lower center of gravity. And if you mount your lamp above the visor instead of up top you reduce the chances of hitting low branches.


Exactly what I do, have to find a pic, but I have a 2 cell on the back of my helmet and my helmet light just over the visor. Works perfectly and much less noticeable.

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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

indebt said:


> IMO any twin emitter lamp with a separate two cell battery strapped to the back of your helmet will be more comfortable as the weight is spread out,, over an all in one sitting at the top of your lid. advantages are more light output longer run times and lower center of gravity. And if you mount your lamp above the visor instead of up top you reduce the chances of hitting low branches.


Agree wholeheartedly and said exactly the same on another thread or it might have been another forum. I don't know how people manage with a flashlight stuck right on the top of their helmet.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

zebralight h600w MK III

lightest possible production single 18650 powered on earth

carry spare 18650


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Vancbiker said:


> You won't get lightweight in an internal battery light. The current fave it seems around here is the Ituo WIZ20. With mount, it's nearly 300 grams! Personally, I can't imagine riding rooty, rocky trails with that much extra weight on the lid, YMMV.


incorrect.

95 grams is the lightest

zebralight is 39 grams empty, 
silicone holder is 10 grams
with 3400mah 18650 batt is 85 grams, + holder = total 95 grams

and gives you 1000 lumens. I run it one level below this, and carry an extra 18650
in my pocket, good for 3+ hours easy


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

To get 3+ hours with a spare 18650 included means your actually only pushing maybe 500 lumens avg.

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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> To get 3+ hours with a spare 18650 included means your actually only pushing maybe 500 lumens avg.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


I was just looking at the zebralight website and that's about what the claimed lumen output of "next level down" is. Still can't imagine how they get 39 gram of light-head body mass to adequately cool a single emitter pushing 1000 lumens or even 500 lumens in the climate I ride in.
Mole


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

I've been looking at some of these high output flashlights recently and think there is something fishy going on with their lumen claims and run times. When you select Turbo mode, it only stays on that level for about 5 minutes usually before stepping down a lower level either on a timer or thermal stepdown.

Turbo mode is actually meant for a short burst of light for a limited period not for continual burn. If you compare the run times on Turbo and High you can usually see that there's not a great deal of difference. It had me confused for a while but then I saw a YouTube test on one and realised what was going on.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

127.0.0.1 said:


> incorrect.
> 
> 95 grams is the lightest
> 
> ...


We understand the zebralight works for you, but IMHO, most guys looking for a light would find it less than good.

You have to run at less than 1000 lumen because the light can't support 1000 for long. Today's night riders are almost always looking for more than 500-600 sustainable lumen lights for trail riding, particularly on rocky rooty trails. Additionally, last time I checked, Zebralight is using a cool white tint to eke out as high a lumen count as possible while neutral white tints are much nicer and render trail detail much more realistically.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Vanc, you just reminded me I've been meaning to do a short video, cool white vs neutral white. So many people try night riding and don't like it cause of the cool white washing everything out. They might find it as fun as we do if they realize there is something much better out there.

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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Vanc, you just reminded me I've been meaning to do a short video, cool white vs neutral white. So many people try night riding and don't like it cause of the cool white washing everything out. They might find it as fun as we do if they realize there is something much better out there.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


For years I rode with DIY lights that were all built with cool white LEDs a) because they were more readily available and b) because they were brighter.

I had a friend who also built DIY lights who used to bang on about neutral white LEDs but I never got it because I never rode with a neutral white LED light to compare and see the difference. I thought it was just a matter of personal preference so to speak and there wasn't really much in it.

Then recently I bought a Ituo Wiz20 and already had a Nightfighter BT21 (both in NW) but my daughter was using it. I had bought a more suitable light for her commuting so had the BT21 back off her and helmet mounted it.

The first ride with another friend who had cool white lights didn't really mean very much until we stopped somehwhere and started comparing the lights. That's when we both saw the light - literally! :thumbsup:

I think the video is a good idea if you can actually capture the difference significantly. The camera doesn't see things the way the human eye does.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

There's a whole section of the official mtbr light review that's devoted to all in one lights. Examples include Niterider Lumina, Lezyne lights (Deca drive, Power drive), Bontrager Ion 700 RT. It's a long list

Here's the link for the 2016 light shootout.
2016 Bike Lights Shootout: Headlights - Mtbr.com


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

OverTheHill said:


> For years I rode with DIY lights that were all built with cool white LEDs a) because they were more readily available and b) because they were brighter.
> 
> I had a friend who also built DIY lights who used to bang on about neutral white LEDs but I never got it because I never rode with a neutral white LED light to compare and see the difference. I thought it was just a matter of personal preference so to speak and there wasn't really much in it.
> 
> ...


Will be interesting to see how the video works out. To me when comparing the two tints the cool white always looks like the stronger light. I was skeptical right up to the point where I took my first NW equipt trail ride with no cool white lights around and had my "OK now I get it" moment. I think the main advantage lies in how the two tints affect your pupils. Cool white produces a lot more glare constricting your pupils which reduces your overall vision compared to the softer NW tint. Don't see how a video whould be able to show this.
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Actually it does quite well. I have a video that I did for a flashlight review that shows the glare quite well. Glare effects a camera sensor in very similar ways when your in manual mode so it doesn't try to auto adjust.

I think it's the Nitecore review towards the end of it, I need to check though.

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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Tjeep_1999 said:


> Thank you for all the info guys... gave me a lot to think about. I might revisit the wired idea based on feedback, but for now I'll look at the WIZ2 as it is the lighter of the options.


Tonight I started messing around with my Wiz-1 again. Seems I found a way to mount my ITUO Gopro compatible helmet mount more toward the center of my helmet. Instead of using the usual 26650 cell I used an 18650 cell, put some cardboard inside the battery compartment to fill the extra space and then mounted it to the helmet. Seems comfortable enough to use on a ride now. There is still some minor "pendulum effect" because of the added height off the helmet but I don't think it's severe enough to cause a major problem ( or so I'm thinking as I haven't tried it on a ride yet ).

Still, I agree with indebt; a two emitter lamp with separate 2-cell battery on the helmet is an awesome, light-weight set-up.

@127.1....The Zebralight you use is still designed for use primarily as a headlamp. That said not sure how that works with a bike helmet. Any small 18650 torch is going to be light-weight. I have two cheap Ultrafire 501-B drop-in torches that I use occasional on the helmet. One with cool white XP-L drop-in ( UI two steady modes and one slow flash ) for when I ride my road bike and one with an XM-L2 NW drop-in ( 3-steady modes ) for those times I start MTB rides while still day and only need a set-up with shorter run times or just want to travel light. I rarely use the NW one for MTB rides anymore because the Gemini Duo I have with two cell ( on the helmet ) while slightly heavier has so much more to offer.. 
( programmable, brighter, wider beam pattern, wireless remote )


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Vancbiker said:


> We understand the zebralight works for you, but IMHO, most guys looking for a light would find it less than good.
> 
> You have to run at less than 1000 lumen because the light can't support 1000 for long. Today's night riders are almost always looking for more than 500-600 sustainable lumen lights for trail riding, particularly on rocky rooty trails. Additionally, last time I checked, Zebralight is using a cool white tint to eke out as high a lumen count as possible while neutral white tints are much nicer and render trail detail much more realistically.


I get it. my zebralight is high cri not cool white. it works for me, in tandem 
with my handlebar lights, for 3 hour fests. on long straights/climbs I turn it off to conserve. on epic night ride I pack up to 4 spare 18650, two for zebra two for my handlebars. on the bars I have both high cri and a cool white, and I typically use the cool white for throw and bump/rock/root shadow contrast and the zebra for cornering. works great as I can differentiate the beam based on cri


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

indebt said:


> IMO any twin emitter lamp with a separate two cell battery strapped to the back of your helmet will be more comfortable as the weight is spread out,, over an all in one sitting at the top of your lid. advantages are more light output longer run times and lower center of gravity. And if you mount your lamp above the visor instead of up top you reduce the chances of hitting low branches.





Cat-man-do said:


> Still, I agree with indebt; a two emitter lamp with separate 2-cell battery on the helmet is an awesome, light-weight set-up.


I could not agree more. Been using this concept with my lights since 2008 :thumbsup:

















****


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## radirpok (Feb 1, 2006)

A week passed since the original post and nobody even mentioned the best (but definitely the lightest) all-in-one helmet light, the Exposure Joystick?

Shame on you.

The Joystick is also interesting because unlike the Ituo-series lights the optics is lens based and not reflector based - the beam shape is very different, so definitely worth a look.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

*****


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

radirpok said:


> A week passed since the original post and nobody even mentioned the best (but definitely the lightest) all-in-one helmet light, the Exposure Joystick?
> 
> Shame on you.
> 
> The Joystick is also interesting because unlike the Ituo-series lights the optics is lens based and not reflector based - the beam shape is very different, so definitely worth a look.


Far from the best when it $180 flashlight that cool white 

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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

The latest joystick is only 850 lumens as well which is nowhere near powerful enough for off-road work. Basically a very expensive torch in my opinion and nowhere near the best helmet light.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

radirpok said:


> A week passed since the original post and nobody even mentioned the best (but definitely the lightest) all-in-one helmet light, the Exposure Joystick?
> 
> Shame on you.
> 
> The Joystick is also interesting because unlike the Ituo-series lights the optics is lens based and not reflector based - the beam shape is very different, so definitely worth a look.


Not sure it's the lightest. Looks very much like the Wiz-1 when mounted on a helmet so I would think the weight would be about the same. I can't speak to the beam pattern on the Joystick having not seen one in person but I can tell you first hand that the beam pattern of the Wiz-1 is very nice. The reflector on the W1 is slightly wider and shorter than typical torches. It also utilizes an OP texture. It provides good throw without the typical tight spot usually associated with torches. Not sure what the Joystick uses for a battery but with the W1 you can easily switch out a battery anytime you feel the need. Other pluses of the W1 are NW emitter and programmable UI. I'm sure the Joystick is a nice light. I've always liked that unique mounting solution. Still, not everyone will like the weight or "Pendulum effect" of either the Joystick or the Wiz-1.

@OTH; 850 lumen is more than enough to use when MTB'n. Although most of my helmet lamps provide more than 850 lumens, I usually use a nominal setting of about 700-800 lumen ( off the helmet ) when not riding real fast. When using a torch the nominal setting I'll use is usually around 400-500 lumen. Tighter beam patterns can get the job done with less output. Let's not forget that 10 yrs. ago many of us were still riding with single emitter lamps and most of those were far less than 850 lumen.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> @OTH; 850 lumen is more than enough to use when MTB'n. Although most of my helmet lamps provide more than 850 lumens, I usually use a nominal setting of about 700-800 lumen ( off the helmet ) when not riding real fast. When using a torch the nominal setting I'll use is usually around 400-500 lumen. Tighter beam patterns can get the job done with less output. Let's not forget that 10 yrs. ago many of us were still riding with single emitter lamps and most of those were far less than 850 lumen.


Obviously everybody's terrain and riding style is different but I don't think I could survive using just 850 lumens let alone 400-500 on faster sections of my rides. There's not really much point discussing what you use on slower sections because it's the steep, fast, tight sections which ultimately govern how much light you need.

Things move on and there's no point in getting misty-eyed about what we used to have to put up with otherwise we'd still be riding with V-brakes, 6-speed transmissions and rigid forks. We should be thankful that we do have VERY affordable powerful lights now to illuminate our sport and not just put up with the minimum we can get away with.


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## radirpok (Feb 1, 2006)

Well, the Joystick weighs about 100gr _including_ the helmet mount. The Ituo 1 and 2 weigh around 150gr and 200gr respectively, _not including_ the helmet mount (not easy to find info on the weight, interestingly they don't advertise it on their homepage). 

It is of course a trade-off between weight and runtime, so you decide which one's more important for you. Btw. you can buy piggyback batteries for the joystick, but that's not a very good solution, if you need more runtime you'd probably want to go for a light with a swappable battery.

That said, if I could only have one light I would put it on the handlebar, especially on rocky terrain, 200-300 lumens should be the sufficient. I remember the days when I was perfectly happy with a pair of 10w halogen lights though, so maybe my expectations are a bit "relaxed"


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

If you're not going to use it much then go with something useful off the bike too. The Zebralight gets my vote for that.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

radirpok said:


> Well, the Joystick weighs about 100gr _including_ the helmet mount. The Ituo 1 and 2 weigh around 150gr and 200gr respectively, _not including_ the helmet mount (not easy to find info on the weight, interestingly they don't advertise it on their homepage).
> 
> It is of course a trade-off between weight and runtime, so you decide which one's more important for you. Btw. you can buy piggyback batteries for the joystick, but that's not a very good solution, if you need more runtime you'd probably want to go for a light with a swappable battery.
> 
> That said, if I could only have one light I would put it on the handlebar, especially on rocky terrain, 200-300 lumens should be the sufficient. I remember the days when I was perfectly happy with a pair of 10w halogen lights though, so maybe my expectations are a bit "relaxed"


I didn't know the Joystick was that light-weight. I guess the picture makes it look bigger than it actually is.

Tonight I had some time to take a quick walk-around on the local trails before going to work. I took the Wiz-1 out just to see what it look like when lighting up the trails. In all honesty I'm very impressed with what I saw. I held the lamp as though it was helmet mounted and damn, the W1 has some great throw. Not as wide a beam pattern as a typical two emitter lamp but once the lamp is aimed beyond 25 ft. the ball of light it produces is wide enough to light up a fairly wide area. Even the medium setting was quite impressive. Now all that needs to be done is to actual ride with the lamp to see how well I like it while riding trails. Walking and shining a light around is one thing but the acid test is actual riding. No substitute for actual ride testing.

Tonight I was very surprised at all the people I saw "night riding" down at the local park. I can't begin to tell you about all the people I saw who are riding with just a single cheap MS808 clone.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Thing with lights is that weight isn't everything. Output and run time both require more weight. You can't have 1000 lumens for any useable amount of run time in a package that small

Now if you don't need a lot of light and avg run time because you don't want the weight/output on your helmet then joystick fits the bill if you want to drop the cash.

There are better lights for helmet use than the wiz1/2 (wiz1 is a bit too big for helmet use IMO because of the cell used for insane run time). A lot of options out there.

Biggest thing is that it's all about personal preference. I can't stand riding with my primary lumen output on the bars. I switch to the opposite of the "status quo" and night riding became much more fun.

I prefer to see where I'm going not where my bikes pointing. 800-1200 lumens is all I need on my bars. Helmet I go with about 20% or more output vs my bar light.

There is no "best" for everyone, it's about what the rider wants.

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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

I ride Exposure Diablo on helmet, and it is an awesome durable light. I ride a n Exposure Toro 4 or a Maxx on my bar with the Diablo. They are pricey, but buying quality only hurts once.

I get on my 1-1/2+ hours at 800 lumens and that works for Me. Exposures handle the Phoenix heat well.

I don't think a Joystick is enough light/battery for serious trail riding, but I'd like to get one to keep in my CamelBack as a backup or emergency light.










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## Averbuks (Oct 24, 2014)

Anyone concerned about having lithium batteries attached to your helmet and crashing? A direct impact to the battery during a crash could be very dangerous.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

That's why we use 18650s. And tell everyone not to use cheap, Chinese junk. As well as packs are encased and protected.

These aren't lipo batteries, they don't explode (unless their cheap Chinese crap). Li-ion cells are far more safe and stable. If they weren't dropping a cordless power tool the battery would explode.

Not a single thing to worry about as long as you use quality packs with branded cells.

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## Averbuks (Oct 24, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> That's why we use 18650s. And tell everyone not to use cheap, Chinese junk. As well as packs are encased and protected.
> 
> These aren't lipo batteries, they don't explode (unless their cheap Chinese crap). Li-ion cells are far more safe and stable. If they weren't dropping a cordless power tool the battery would explode.
> 
> ...


The battery cases do not have enough protection to withstand a hard impact. Also my concern is that the weight of all in one light in on area of the helmet like could compromise the helmet design itself in the event of a direct impact.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Averbuks said:


> The battery cases do not have enough protection to withstand a hard impact. Also my concern is that the weight of all in one light in on area of the helmet like could compromise the helmet design itself in the event of a direct impact.


If you have an impact with an all-in-one light on the helmet that damages the light so badly that the internal Li-ion cell is damaged enough to short and vent, I think you'll have enough other injuries that it is not likely to matter.

I think there is much more injury potential from snagging the light on a branch or vine. Many all-in-ones tend to sit kind of high on the top of the helmet.....


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

Averbuks said:


> The battery cases do not have enough protection to withstand a hard impact. Also my concern is that the weight of all in one light in on area of the helmet like could compromise the helmet design itself in the event of a direct impact.


If you're so worried about things like that why are you even doing something as dangerous as riding a bicycle off-road? Take up knitting instead, much safer...


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Averbuks said:


> The battery cases do not have enough protection to withstand a hard impact. Also my concern is that the weight of all in one light in on area of the helmet like could compromise the helmet design itself in the event of a direct impact.


 How do you know this?? Unless i've missed the documented case(s) of quality battery's exploding from mountain biking accidents and those company's going out of business do to massive lawsuits? Is it possible for a freak accident to happen,,, maybe, but i think you would have a better chance of getting hit by a falling tree branch or many other scenario's long before worrying about the high quality battery on your helmet failing. Maybe if someone was using the Samsung phone battery's,, i'd be concerned.


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

indebt said:


> How do you know this?? Unless i've missed the documented case(s) of quality battery's exploding from mountain biking accidents and those company's going out of business do to massive lawsuits? Is it possible for a freak accident to happen,,, maybe, but i think you would have a better chance of getting hit by a falling tree branch or many other scenario's long before worrying about the high quality battery on your helmet failing. Maybe if someone was using the Samsung phone battery's,, i'd be concerned.


Haha 👍


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

I agree it's a stretch to be worried about your battery pack ess-plodin.

Much more likely to be killed by Bigfoot.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Averbuks said:


> The battery cases do not have enough protection to withstand a hard impact. Also my concern is that the weight of all in one light in on area of the helmet like could compromise the helmet design itself in the event of a direct impact.


Your stuck on thinking about lithium polymer rc batteries. These are FAR different. These cells are hard metal cased, each one. Then in a rubber casting, then in a pouch.

The only cells that explode are cheap Chinese crap. There is ABSOLUTELY NO INSTANCE of a quality branded pack doing anything of the sort in a VERY long time. The only thing that causes any issues is if you over heat them they will vent toxic gel.

And you have WAY more risks than how a light effects helmet performance. That's why lights are designed with mounts designed to break away in a crash.

Mountain biking is itself is far more dangerous than the tiny risk of a lights causing any issue beyond it going out for some reason and being left in the dark (hence why we say use a bar and a helmet light, never ride with just one)

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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Averbuks said:


> The battery cases do not have enough protection to withstand a hard impact. Also my concern is that the weight of all in one light in on area of the helmet like could compromise the helmet design itself in the event of a direct impact.


I use a Gemini two cell on the helmet at times when I want to ride wireless. The hard plastic casing should be able to take quite a hit before the batteries inside would be damaged. If somehow that did happen I probably wouldn't care because I'd likely be on my way to a hospital for concussion treatment.

Yes, having a lamp or self-contained lamp on the helmet could present a danger in an accident where your head is hitting something really hard. Regardless the potential advantages of running a helmet lamp far out-weigh the dangers associated with using a helmet mounted lamp. Thankfully, accidents that involve the head are something that you try to avoid and are usually rare. That said when riding at night ( or when alone ) I usually won't try any maneuver that might result in my body flying over the handle bars. So far ( knock on wood ) I've been very good at avoiding bad MTB accidents at night. It helps to have common sense, a good knowledge of the trails you are riding and the limitations of your own skills.

Summing up; I've heard stories of people who have hit their heads while riding at night and had complications because of the helmet lamp so I know it can happen. Still, it is a very rare thing to happen and reports of such are very few. As for the batteries themselves being damaged, that should be the least of your worries. If your battery sustained an impact you should know enough about Li-ion batteries to know that you need to use caution if you plan to use the battery again. If in doubt you toss it and use another. I've been riding for over 20 years and I've never had an accident that involved a lamp or a battery ( on or off the bike ).


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

1000 lumens in a headlamp is not sufficient for off-road riding?

I use two Niterider 750 Luminas on the handlebar, and have been using a single either Serfas TSL-750 or USL-505 for the headlamp. Just picked up a Lumina Boost 950 since I think the newest NR mount will work well on my helmets. The USL-505 lumen light is OK, but I wish it reached out a little further. The TSL-750 reaches out a little further, but it is a little heavy at 235g with bracket. I can feel that weight up there even though I mount it rear of center (where weight feels best on a helmet so it doesn't try to push the helmet forward when you hit bumps). For many rides the USL-505 (at 143g with bracket) is sufficient, but not optimal. The Boost 950 is 172g with bracket, so I think it will be the best blend of lumens vs. weight for me. 

I have the two handlebar lights pointed slightly outward most of the time to produce a more rectangular beam pattern, and then position the headlamp to shine straight ahead, but out in front of the handlebar lights. For mostly straight ahead riding, a single handlebar light (in addition to the headlamp) would be OK. But the more twisty the trail, the more I prefer to have a wider beam pattern, so the two all-in-one handlebar lights works great.

I will generally hit 20-30 mph on every ride, and don't have any problems with the light my setup provides. I have been night riding for nearly 20 years, and the lights we have available today are so much better than the stuff we used to run. I have had several separate battery/light units, and all of them were a PITA and eventually had issues with the wiring/plugs. I personally didn't care for the extra weight of a separate battery strapped to my helmet, and having a cord running into my camelbak or jersey can be a hassle too.

For rides of 2 to 2.5 hours or less, the all-in-ones that don't have replaceable batteries have been more than sufficient is you spend a little effort to manage your power consumption. In 'walking mode', the Luminas will get 14 to 18 hours, so they use almost nothing as I climb, so I use the low power modes for climbing. Not only do they use much less power, climbing mode doesn't get your eyes too used to the brightest light your setup can provide. That way, when you do wick them up, they look super bright for the fast descents.

Handlebar mounts are also super critical. The thumbscrew NR handlebar mounts are very stable, whereas the Serfas handlebar mounts can jump around in rough terrain, which is why I only use the Serfas lights on my helmet, or keep one in my pack as a backup/spare. I also don't care as much for the way the center of the beam on the Serfas has a relatively sharp dropoff compared to that of the Luminas. That's not as critical when shining a spot further ahead of the handlebar lights beam IMHO.

Bottom line is that I think there are all-in-one solutions that work very well at an affordable price for spirited riding, whether it is fast and wide open, or tight, twisty and undulating terrain.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I didn't read the whole thread but I'm replying to the OP.
I love my Cyclebeam 930Z mounted to my helmet. The mount works great with a 360 degree swivel, so you can point it wherever once mounted. This is handy for helmet vent mounting. It runs on a single 18650 battery and the beam focus can be adjusted. It has 3 brightness settings and I usually run it on medium otherwise I feel like it washes out my bar light. I can get around 2 hours run time on medium, high power is more like an hour. I purchased a few spare batteries from Cyclebeam and I never leave for a ride without a fully charged spare. I tried a 18650 battery from the battery store and it did not work with the light. I don't know if there is anything special about the Cyclebeam-branded 18650 batteries, but they have no positive end nipple which was unlike the one I tried from the battery store. The light beam goes into a flash mode when the battery is low, which is much better than just going out entirely! I can swap batteries without even taking my helmet off, which is also quite convenient.

https://www.amazon.com/Top-Brightne...UTF8&qid=1481037606&sr=8-2&keywords=cyclebeam


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Exposure Diablo on lid

Exposure MaxxD latest Mk9 version on bar - ample for trail riding

Both are packed full of features, including loads of programs to set burn time with your ride time - fit, program, relax and ride (as fast as day-time)


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Fancy names for what other companies do called programmable modes: low, medium, high. Cool to get creative about it though. Gets boring seeing "low-medium-high".

Sorry after seeing a thread showing an exposure light tore down due to failure its hard not to poke fun at them. Insanely over priced for something so poorly designed. Looks and functionality are nice, but the internal design when i saw it was a "are you serious?!?!? There's why they fail". That could be one of their older lights though cause ppl love their new ones and ive seen some with a simple tap (no button just tap the light) to change the modes. That function is kick ass.

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## o27 (Apr 3, 2016)

Anyone tried out the Nitecore EC4s: http://flashlight.nitecore.com/product/ec4s seems perfect for my usual 1-2 hrs sessions. 1150 lms for 2 hrs up to 2000 lms up to 45 mins. Light weight and I can use it off bike as well.

Any input?

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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Never mentioned over here at all being its classed a flashlight. Nitecore makes some good flashlights though. Do you mount something that big on your helmet though?


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## o27 (Apr 3, 2016)

Haven't seen it real life so can't comment on the size being too big for helmet mount. But i like the idea of a normal flashligt as helmet mount as I have a Magicshine 628 for bar mount. Dont like the need for external battery pack for the helmet light. As such though the EC4s would be a good compromise on a all-in-one solution.


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## Staypuft1652 (Oct 8, 2016)

Dont know physical size, still weighs slightly less than a lumina lol.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

EC4s - Watched a couple of Youtube videos and this looks like a nice flashlight. As a helmet light there are a few things that wouldn't work for me. 1) Beam looks very floody (described as area light in video). 2) Physical size is quite long requiring very high mounting to aim correctly. 3) Evaluating physical size compared to similar lights my guess is listed weight is without batteries making it quite heavy for helmet mounting. Beam pattern and weight are personal preferences that would bother me but maybe something you are willing to put up with as a compromise, if you get this light I'd love to get your impressions and see your mounting setup.
Mole


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Nitecore EC4SW is better, comes with neutral white emitter. Kinda cool that Nitecore gives you a choice with several of their lights and they are in some cases using high CRI emitters.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Yes Mole that 170grams is without battery's. Not sure how much a 3400mAh 18650 battery weighs but it takes two of them. I'm sure that baby will be up in the 250 gram area when all is done not to mention the weight of the mount to keep all that weight secure.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

indebt said:


> Yes Mole that 170grams is without battery's. Not sure how much a 3400mAh 18650 battery weighs but it takes two of them. I'm sure that baby will be up in the 250 gram area when all is done not to mention the weight of the mount to keep all that weight secure.


The 2 3200 protected Ituo's out of my Wiz20 were right at 100 grams.
Mole


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

o27 said:


> Anyone tried out the Nitecore EC4s: EC4S | Nitecore seems perfect for my usual 1-2 hrs sessions. 1150 lms for 2 hrs up to 2000 lms up to 45 mins. Light weight and I can use it off bike as well.
> 
> Any input?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 After getting some info from Mole, light weight it is not!! The 170 grams mentioned is not including battery's which will add another 100 grams not counting the weight of a strong enough mount to keep all that secure. 300 grams at the top of your lid will not likely be very comfortable and is more weight than i've heard anyone on this forum ride with.

There are much better options already mentioned on this thread to consider. Cheers!!


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## o27 (Apr 3, 2016)

127.0.0.1 said:


> incorrect.
> 
> 95 grams is the lightest
> 
> ...


 Can the zebralight run at 1000 lumens for 3 hrs?

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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not even possible with an 18650 cell. Get maybe 400-500 lumens for 3 hrs

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## o27 (Apr 3, 2016)

What am I to get then for approx 1,5-2 hrs 1000 lumens? I don't want external battery pack


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

o27 said:


> Can the zebralight run at 1000 lumens for 3 hrs?


Sure it can. Just change the battery every hour or so and it will. I guess though technically it's not running at 1000 lumen while fumbling around in the cold and dark changing the battery, so maybe the answer is no.....


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## o27 (Apr 3, 2016)

Then why is it stated even on their hompage to run at [email protected] hours - is this just theoretical then?

Have tried mounting my new Magicshine MJ-906 (Christmas gift); MJ-906 Bicycle Light Combo ? Magicshine - on my POC Octal helmet today. That´s going to be a no go, it will be fine at the handlebar, but no way I´m gonna run that as a helmet mounted option.

How come there is no obvious self contained lights out there?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

https://www.action-led-lights.com/collections/gloworm-lights/products/gloworm-cx-urban-and-trail-self-contain-light

This Gloworm CX would work as you described. You still will have to deal with approx. 300 grams of weight but at least it would have a proper spot beam for throw and a better UI (user interface) + helmet mount. The link will take you to "Action-LED-Lights" website which will have contact information if you have any specific questions. Jim is very knowledgeable and willing to help (5 star customer service).
Mole


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The reason it says 1000 lumens for 2 hours is how the whole rating system is done.

Its not "X" constantly lumen output for 2 hours. It gets 1000 lumen 30seconds after turn on and then it will take 2 hours to decrease to an output level of only 100 lumens

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## o27 (Apr 3, 2016)

MRMOLE said:


> https://www.action-led-lights.com/collections/gloworm-lights/products/gloworm-cx-urban-and-trail-self-contain-light
> 
> This Gloworm CX would work as you described. You still will have to deal with approx. 300 grams of weight but at least it would have a proper spot beam for throw and a better UI (user interface) + helmet mount. The link will take you to "Action-LED-Lights" website which will have contact information if you have any specific questions. Jim is very knowledgeable and willing to help (5 star customer service).
> Mole


That Gloworm CX actually looks very promising, I´ll definitely look more into this and the Ituo Wiz 1/2/20


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Tjeep_1999 said:


> Tittle pretty much sums it up. I did find some older internal battery threads on the topic, but nothing recent (all were pre 2016). All the recent posts seem to be about ones with external batteries, but I'm definitely looking for internal battery only. It will have to be light weight and reliable. Ride time is 1-2 hours, but that's about it as I just need something to make it out of the trails with it getting darker sooner. It will be for single track riding... lots of roots/rocks. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!


For 1-2hrs you could get away with a good single battery light... < 100g, good beam pattern and UI, >1000lm when you need it...
H600w Mk III XHP35 Neutral White 18650 Headlamp


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## o27 (Apr 3, 2016)

How long runtime on the 1100 lumens?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

o27 said:


> How long runtime on the 1100 lumens?


Thats a complicated question... Its PID controlled, and has little thermal mass so will drop fairly rapidly with limited airflow... but then you probably don't need 1000lm at 10kph.
Looks like 1000lm on high for 40 minutes and 600lm for over an hour and a half if you set the PID to maximise runtime. I think that satisfies the 1-2hrs the OP asked for, assuming a lot of that will be at a slower speed and lower power.

There's a detailed review here...

Zebralight SC600-III (XHP35, 1x18650) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, VIDEO and more!!


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