# 1x gearing.... (again)



## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

I am attempting to get myself prepared for some longer trips. As of right now my I am focusing on building up endurance. I have not done any over night trips yet. I currently carry about 8 lbs of gear on my rides, fully loaded will be over 20 I am sure.

My goal is to be able to do a route in Vermont this October, its 250 miles, and a whopping 22,000 feet of climbing. Most people do it in 3 to 5 days. Its 65% dirt/gravel, 5% single track, 30% road.

Currently I am making it a point to get out 4-5 days a week. 2 road rides of 50+ miles (usually 2000-3000 feet), and a few short rides (20-25 miles, 1000-2000 feet) and a ride in the woods on my gravel bike. Hopefully by mid-late June I will have doubled the mileage I am doing.

My gearing now is 42 up front with an 11-42 cassette. It's fine on the road, and I really only use the 42/42 on the steepest of climbs (there's usually at least one 20-24% grade climb, but they are not crazy long) towards the end of the longer rides.

42/11 is fine, I can pretty easily hit 38mph on the down hills, probably 40 if I really spin it out.

On the low end, I know that I need more, but the question is how much more?

I don't mind spending the money to upgrade. I will need a new drive train before the trip anyway.

My current low gear is 28" and high of 107"

Options are:

42T with 11-46 cassette - 25.5" / 107"
38T with 10-42 cassette - 25.3" / 106"
38T with 10-48 cassette - 23.1" / 106"
36T with 9-46 cassette - 21.9" / 112"
34T with 9-46 cassette - 20.7" / 106"

The 38T with 10-42 is probably the most reliable option, definitely one of the easiest to find parts for, as the 10-48 cassette is from Germany and the e13 9-46 cassettes seem to be kinda on the expensive yet less reliable side. Both options also increase the spacing between the gears, which is already at the edge of what is comfortable. I find myself wishing for a gear between a few times a ride now.

I have no desire to switch to a 2x set up though, the reliability and simplicity just wins out.

Thanks in advance for your input.


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## Justin Credible (May 10, 2011)

I don’t have much info on gearing but, I’ll be doing this ride in July. Pretty excited and nervous at the same time. I have a topic in this forum, but no one has replied. Where are you sleeping? Tents? Campgrounds? Hotels?


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

My Hard Tail Mountain bike, a plus tire bike, 27.5x2.8 wides had a
32T chain ring and the 11-42 Shimano M8000 system.
This was perfect for me until I moved to the mountains.
It was time for a new cassette and chain so I moved to the 11-46 cassette and still use the 32T chainring and can spin up plenty of speed In 10th and 11th gear.
I have a few 22-24% grades I still struggle with but hey Climbing is suppose to be hard right 
The grade I mentioned above is my extreme, more commonly 12-15% grades are what I find, even on those I'm very glad I tried the 11-46.
Can't wait to get my gravel bike ready with Its 2x10 105 system.

Mike Sherman's Bicycle Gear Calculator


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

You want more range, feel your gear spacing is already borderline too wide, and don't mind some upgrade cost. This sounds to me like a prescription for going with Eagle 1X12. From your description you'd probably want run it with a 38T chainring. Similar in range to the Garbaruk and e13 options you've listed, but tighter spacing. Pricier and heavier though. Your call.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

What kind of bike is it? If it were me I'd probably just switch the chainring to a 38t, 38/11 is still a pretty big gear for bikepacking and shouldn't limit your speed except in extreme situations. I can spin that gear to 40mph on a smooth road with a downhill or big tailwind.


If you really want the high end then 10-42 seems best but unless your hub is convertible you'll need a new one with a sram driver.


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Justin Credible said:


> I don't have much info on gearing but, I'll be doing this ride in July. Pretty excited and nervous at the same time. I have a topic in this forum, but no one has replied. Where are you sleeping? Tents? Campgrounds? Hotels?


You are doing the same route in VT? I will be tenting. I'll PM you my facebook messenger info and we can chat.



wayold said:


> You want more range, feel your gear spacing is already borderline too wide, and don't mind some upgrade cost. This sounds to me like a prescription for going with Eagle 1X12. From your description you'd probably want run it with a 38T chainring. Similar in range to the Garbaruk and e13 options you've listed, but tighter spacing. Pricier and heavier though. Your call.


I am on drop bars with rival shifters, so limited to 11 speed.



J.B. Weld said:


> What kind of bike is it? If it were me I'd probably just switch the chainring to a 38t, 38/11 is still a pretty big gear for bikepacking and shouldn't limit your speed except in extreme situations. I can spin that gear to 40mph on a smooth road with a downhill or big tailwind.
> 
> If you really want the high end then 10-42 seems best but unless your hub is convertible you'll need a new one with a sram driver.


Gravel bike with Resolute 42's. Wheels are specialized carbon something or others. DT hubs, so easily converted. I question if a 38T is even enough. I really have to load the bike up and head out for a good 100 miles to see I guess.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

I'm prepping for a ride called Ragbrai in July. Close to 500 miles. I have never pushed more than 150 miles in a week till now. 7 days and just shy of 500 miles with rolling hills that can get rather steep on the back roads during the hottest part our summers.

I realized pushing long miles that I care less about top end and go towards having low enough gearing that the steep back roads going up doesnt take too much out of me. I don't deal with your level of climbing but if it was me I would be gearing towards making sure I finish over how fast I can finish.

I'm riding 29+ converted fat bike with just days worth of gear. Your going to be carrying more gear too. So don't be afraid to go lower on the gearing and using more time to recover.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Very good points.



RAKC Ind said:


> I'm prepping for a ride called Ragbrai in July. Close to 500 miles. I have never pushed more than 150 miles in a week till now. 7 days and just shy of 500 miles with rolling hills that can get rather steep on the back roads during the hottest part our summers.
> 
> I realized pushing long miles that I care less about top end and go towards having low enough gearing that the steep back roads going up doesnt take too much out of me. I don't deal with your level of climbing but if it was me I would be gearing towards making sure I finish over how fast I can finish.
> 
> ...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Black Squirrel said:


> Gravel bike with Resolute 42's. Wheels are specialized carbon something or others. DT hubs, so easily converted. I question if a 38T is even enough. I really have to load the bike up and head out for a good 100 miles to see I guess.


I'd be more concerned about the low gears, 22,000 feet is a lot of climbing and gears that would be fine on a shorter ride might not work on a 20% climb @ mile 80. On fast mixed surface rides I don't think I've ever felt held back by gearing on a hardtail mtb with 34/11 (90 gear inches) and in the right conditions I can spin it to ~40. Legs & lungs are my main limiter, bigger gears would only accelerate my hypoxia 

That's just me though and only you know what's best for you. Load up and give it a go!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

RAKC Ind said:


> I'm prepping for a ride called Ragbrai in July. Close to 500 miles.


I've done that one a bunch of times, super fun ride and the people and party atmosphere make the miles tick off fast, no matter what your pace there will always be good company around you.

People think Iowa is flat but soon discover there are constant rolling hills, nothing super steep or long though and I always used a standard road bike with a 39/25 (41 inch) low gear. I went supported though and carried only water and a few essentials.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

This is why I eventually went 2x for my Salsa Vaya.

The rear end is an 11-36 Shimano SLX 10spd. Up front I've got a compact double 50-34 Shimano Tiagra crankset/105 Front derailleur and it's all controlled by Gevenalle GX levers.

The gearing is just a bit tall for when I'm loaded, though. I pretty much never use the 50/11 combo, and low end gearing is close to what I'd want but not quite there. I'd drop the ring sizes, but it doesn't look like I can do a whole lot with this Tiagra 4700 crankset. I think I might try a "super compact" crankset. Those weren't really a thing when I set this bike up years ago.

I do like the simplicity of 1x on my mtb, but IME, the utility of it when doing long-distance loaded riding is lacking. I had my Vaya set up as a 1x for awhile because I wanted to love it. It just didn't work out in the end.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

I would also be looking for lower gears, and then just coasting down declines..but I ride with no time limit usually...not racing or anything. I would want all the help I could get climbing...have been following a thread where I guy wants to go dow to a 26t chainring, from a 30 if I remember correctly...that is like a BMX one, to get more out of his lower gears


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## Justin Credible (May 10, 2011)

Black Squirrel said:


> You are doing the same route in VT? I will be tenting. I'll PM you my facebook messenger info and we can chat.
> 
> Yeah, hit me up. My name is Justin Coats my profile pic is my bike on some single track


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Harold said:


> This is why I eventually went 2x for my Salsa Vaya.
> 
> The rear end is an 11-36 Shimano SLX 10spd. Up front I've got a compact double 50-34 Shimano Tiagra crankset/105 Front derailleur and it's all controlled by Gevenalle GX levers.
> 
> ...


Good to know. Your set up has nearly the exact same gearing as a 10-42 cassette with a 40 up front. Low gear is the same, high gear is the same as 50/12. So I am leaning pretty heavy towards 38T up front as the biggest that I want.



sXeXBMXer said:


> I would also be looking for lower gears, and then just coasting down declines..but I ride with no time limit usually...not racing or anything. I would want all the help I could get climbing...have been following a thread where I guy wants to go dow to a 26t chainring, from a 30 if I remember correctly...that is like a BMX one, to get more out of his lower gears


They make direct mounts down to 24T, but that's more for tech single track I think. That would be very very low on gravel, I suspect.



Justin Credible said:


> Yeah, hit me up. My name is Justin Coats my profile pic is my bike on some single track


Sent you a friend request.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

I’m gonna do ragbrai self supported too this summer, with a cross bike, 42t up front, 11/32 out back (11spd). 

Daniel, I’m interested in hearing the deets of what route you’re going to run. TATR is the only thing on my bike packing list. I’d like to broaden my horizons.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Harold said:


> This is why I eventually went 2x for my Salsa Vaya.
> 
> The rear end is an 11-36 Shimano SLX 10spd. Up front I've got a compact double 50-34 Shimano Tiagra crankset/105 Front derailleur and it's all controlled by Gevenalle GX levers.
> 
> ...


This! For a general use gravel bike, I feel like 50x11 is already too high and not needed. When I set up my Vaya I went 46/33 in front (TA rings), as that's as low as you can get on compact 110BCD cranks, and have an 11-36 cassette. As Harold says, I'd like the low to be lower, and am now investigating some of the new 'super compact' cranks, which are very new. I would not want to go 1x on this bike, as riding on pavement and dirt roads requires closer spacing between gears. With 1x, you can't get the range and the small gaps between gears, but you can get one or the other.

I think ideal gearing for this king of bike would be 46t and 30t chainrings and something around 11-32 to 11-36 for the cassette, depending on expected hills.

For you wanting to stay 1x, if you think a 38t ring would work well, then go ahead and get a 36t now and try it out. If that feels a bit too low now, it will be perfect for your ride.

I'm also interested in your ride in VT. Gravel Growler, or part of the XVTMBR? I'm hoping to get a 3 day or so ride up there later this summer, not sure when though.


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

It is the Gravel Growler. I am doing a 1 day trip in Southern VT in the next few weeks also. Its like 50 miles.

I ordered an XD driver for my rear hub, as I am definitely going that route, mainly for weight reasons at this point. Even the lightest 11-42 cassette I can find is still heavier and more expensive than the high end Sram 10-42. It also has 3 aluminum gears vs 1, so the Sram cassette should last longer. Plus it gives me the option to go with a 10-46 or 10-48 if needed.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

VT has some really steep pitches. Lots of you only use a near 1x1? Yikes. I must have old knees. Using a 3x9 on the Karate Monkey. That 64/104 bcd works wonders for a wide range of gearing. 22,36,46 in the front, 36-12 for the cassette. I would much rather spin than mash, the bike and get quite heavy when loaded with food/water and all that gear. There is a reason that the old mt bike stuff is really popular for touring/ bikepacking. I run a 1x11 on the fat bike, works fine. But for loaded bikepacking, it lacks range on both ends and the gaps are too wide, for me anyway. Sometimes that " new" stuff is just a marketing ploy, not any better.


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Ok, I loaded up about 50% today and headed out on the nastiest ride I could figure out in my area.

This was about 10% gravel, 30% hard pack dirt, 60% pavement. The climbs were long and steep, usually followed by quick sections of down, and then more climbing.

Having the bike loaded up made every small breeze in my direction feel like a massive head wind.

42/42 was doable, because, well I made it home, but on the gravel it sucked. A lot of the climbs were over 15% and there were a few spots that went over 20%.

So as expected, lower than 1:1 is needed.

Looking at the high end of things, I was able to spin the bike out on more than one occasion today. Max speed was just over 40mph, on the pavement, of course.

The one section of flat road without a headwind I was cruising along in 42/13 for a good while.

Gear spacing was a non issue on this ride, I was finding myself switching multiple gears at a time as it was.

I am glad that I went out and did this ride today, the biggest thing that I learned is the extra gear on the bike, while it is extra weight, seems to slow you way down on the aerodynamic side of things more than just weighing more.

Having the high end sorted helps, I know that around 107 is perfect, and I can sacrifice one tooth there (42/13 is way too low for a high gear, but I could live with 42/12), so anything above 100 gear inches would be fine.

On the low end, I need a minimum of 1 more gear, probably 2, which ends up at 20-24 gear inches.

Leaving the options of:

36T with 10-42 cassette - 24" / 101"
38T with 10-48 cassette - 22" / 106"
36T with 9-46 cassette - 22" / 112"
34T with 9-46 cassette - 20.7" / 106"

I am still leaning towards the SRAM cassette just because its the easiest to get, and e13 as second choice.


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

e13 redesigned their cassette, and looks like a cluster bluefrown so pretty much scratched them off the list.

Garbaruks shipping policy is insane, so that takes them off the list too.

Pretty much leaves SRAM, and the great debate of is saving 5 ounces worth spending $190 extra.....

Either way, going with a 36t direct mount Eagle chain ring.


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## Justin Credible (May 10, 2011)

@blacksquirrel. What happened to your FB? I tried to message you, but you don’t exist.


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

I got pissed and deleted it. Hit me up on Instagram.


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Went out almost fully loaded the other day. Did 43 miles, 10ish on dirt. Bike weight was 42lbs and WOW does it ever slow you down. Right around 12mph average vs my normal 15mph.

I used my lowest gear quite a few times, and would have used lower if I had it. Probably going to go with a 36T.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

42? Thats light for me, the Karate Monkey with plus tires is not light to begin with.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Black Squirrel said:


> Went out almost fully loaded the other day. Did 43 miles, 10ish on dirt. Bike weight was 42lbs and WOW does it ever slow you down. Right around 12mph average vs my normal 15mph.
> 
> I used my lowest gear quite a few times, and would have used lower if I had it. Probably going to go with a 36T.
> 
> View attachment 1202593


man, that looked like it was a sweet ride!!


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

sXeXBMXer said:


> man, that looked like it was a sweet ride!!


It was absolutely perfect. 😀


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## apfrost (Feb 20, 2018)

I live in VT and ride a wolverine setup 2x with a 46/36 and a 11-40, and based on riding a bunch of these roads I'd say that if you ended up with a 1x setup along the lines of 36T w/9-46 you'd be pretty well covered. You'll spin out on some fast paved downhills, but if you're reasonably strong you'll be able to climb just about anything. You'd also probably be fine with a 11-46 for most things.


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Thanks. I kind of gave up on the e13 cassette, just too many negative reviews on it. I ordered the cheap sram 10-42, I am probably going to order a 38 or 40t for my normal gear and a 34 or 36t for the trip. I'll know more as the summer goes on and I get more rides in with the bike loaded up.


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## apfrost (Feb 20, 2018)

Black Squirrel said:


> Thanks. I kind of gave up on the e13 cassette, just too many negative reviews on it. I ordered the cheap sram 10-42, I am probably going to order a 38 or 40t for my normal gear and a 34 or 36t for the trip. I'll know more as the summer goes on and I get more rides in with the bike loaded up.


sounds great, I'm sure it'll be a killer ride


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Black Squirrel said:


> Thanks. I kind of gave up on the e13 cassette, just too many negative reviews on it. I ordered the cheap sram 10-42, I am probably going to order a 38 or 40t for my normal gear and a 34 or 36t for the trip. I'll know more as the summer goes on and I get more rides in with the bike loaded up.


A solution would have been to go dual without a front derailleur. You can than keep the 42 and pair it with a 32 and have all the range you'll ever need ...


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

Davide said:


> A solution would have been to go dual without a front derailleur. You can than keep the 42 and pair it with a 32 and have all the range you'll ever need ...


Honestly, the smallest I can go is like 34 on the spider that I have, and I think (mostly out of lazyness) the entire trip would just be in the 34T at that point, with a lot of extra weight.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

My touring bike has 20-100 gear inches. I would even consider lower if I was planing on being loaded heavy. I've used the lowest gear even riding it unloaded. Get yourself at least a double and lower gears! You'll appreciate it.


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

twodownzero said:


> My touring bike has 20-100 gear inches. I would even consider lower if I was planing on being loaded heavy. I've used the lowest gear even riding it unloaded. Get yourself at least a double and lower gears! You'll appreciate it.





Black Squirrel said:


> I have no desire to switch to a 2x set up though, the reliability and simplicity just wins out.


I am a 1x guy, I would rather lose a few gear inches on either end.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Black Squirrel said:


> I am a 1x guy, I would rather lose a few gear inches on either end.


Then you need a 28 or 30 tooth ring.

1x is great on a trail mountain bike.

Anything outside of that and it's a pretty significant compromise.

This is coming from a guy who has 1x, 2x, and 3x bikes in the garage.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

twodownzero said:


> Then you need a 28 or 30 tooth ring.


Why?

I use a 34t ring on my trail/xc/gravel bike and I rarely find it to be a compromise.


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

twodownzero said:


> Then you need a 28 or 30 tooth ring.


I run a 34T on my mountain bike........


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> Why?
> 
> I use a 34t ring on my trail/xc/gravel bike and I rarely find it to be a compromise.


Because you don't have a load on board!!!

Sure, you can ride an empty touring bike all over even in a 39 tooth ring (which was the common "small" ring on a road bike until just a few years ago). But once you add 20 pounds of load onto the bike and the trail points upward, you're going to want more gear.

Maybe I'm a weak rider, but I would want 20 gear inches or less on a touring bike with a load on board. I'd give up the faster gears for it if I just had to have a 1x setup.

That's why a 2x in this scenario is so attractive, so you wouldn't have to. But given the choice between my 30+ mph gears and my slow gears on the touring bike, when I have a lot of stuff on board, a lot of miles in the tank, and I'm a bit dehydrated and tired, which one do you think I'd want?

The Surly ECR has 26 and 39 tooth rings on it. Any idea why?


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

There's a reason that in the first post that I said I am not converting to a 2x. There's actually many reasons, but the main reason was to keep posts like this from turning the thread in a a bunch of bickering about 1x vs 2x.

On top of that, most "off the shelf" touring bikes with doubles and triples have a low gear in the 22-26 gear inch range. Which is equivalent to a 1x set up and a 36-40T chain ring.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Black Squirrel said:


> There's a reason that in the first post that I said I am not converting to a 2x. There's actually many reasons, but the main reason was to keep posts like this from turning the thread in a a bunch of bickering about 1x vs 2x.
> 
> On top of that, most "off the shelf" touring bikes with doubles and triples have a low gear in the 22-26 gear inch range. Which is equivalent to a 1x set up and a 36-40T chain ring.


https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/adventure-touring-bikes/1120/1120/p/22005/

Lowest gear, 30x46, 19.5 gear inches

https://surlybikes.com/bikes/ogre/bike_specs

Lowest gear: 26x36, 20.9 gear inches

https://surlybikes.com/bikes/troll
Lowest gear: 26x36, 19.1 gear inches

https://surlybikes.com/bikes/ecr_27plus
Lowest gear: 26x40, 18.6 gear inches

https://surlybikes.com/bikes/ecr/bike_info
Lowest gear: 26x40, 19.4 gear inches

https://salsacycles.com/bikes/marrakesh/marrakesh_deore_drop_bar
Lowest gear: 26x34, 21.3 gear inches

https://salsacycles.com/bikes/fargo/2018_fargo_rival_1_27.5
Lowest gear: 32x42, 21.9 gear inches

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/awol-comp/p/134020?color=239498-134020
Lowest gear: 38x42, 24.7 gear inches

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/awol/p/128933?color=239479-128933
Lowest gear: 30x36, 23.2 gear inches

1x, 2x, or even 3x, I found 2 examples to fit your supposed range, which your post describes as universal. The examples I found have 1.9" tires, which very very loosely "off road" by this decade's definition. There aren't too many mountain bikes with 1.9" tires out there.

It was my hypothesis before I ran all these numbers that you'd be unlikely to find true offroad touring bicycles with gearing as high as you claim. It turns out there are two examples I was able to find. All of the rest of them have gearing as low as 18.6 gear inches. Why? Because climbing steep terrain (22,000 feet in 5 days, for example) with a heavy load on board virtually requires it, especially when you have a lot of miles on.

You don't have to agree with me, as these are ultimately matters of subjective preferences and I'm sure there's someone out there who likes grinding up a mountain with weight on board at 40 RPM. But your claim that "most 'off the shelf' touring bikes with doubles and triples have a low gear in the 22-26 gear inch range" is simply not the case if what we're talking about are "mountain oriented" touring bicycles. We wouldn't be discussing this if we both didn't know that virtually any combination can be assembled; if you want to tour with only a 53x10, the parts are available to make that happen. But if you're wondering why you can't find a comfortable range of gear combinations to do self-supported, loaded off road touring with a 1x that has a fairly large crank ring, you need only look above at the specs that I've linked/calculated for you to see that your expectations are unrealistic.

If I'm wrong, you really lose nothing. You just will have 1-2 gears at the top of the cassette that you'll never use. If I'm right, prepare for and enjoy your 40 RPM slog up a mountain.


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

twodownzero said:


> I found 2 examples to fit your supposed range, which your post describes as universal.


That's because you failed to read anything in my original post.

We are not talking about mountain bikes, we are not talking about mountain trails, and we shouldn't be wasting time talking about 2x at all.

Gravel bike
95% dirt and pavement
1x only

Thanks for the "help".


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

Black Squirrel said:


> That's because you failed to read anything in my original post.
> 
> We are not talking about mountain bikes, we are not talking about mountain trails, and we shouldn't be wasting time talking about 2x at all.
> 
> ...


Let me try: I converted my Jamis Renegade to 1x11 with 38T chainring and 11-42 cassette. Tires are 700x35 or 700x40. It works as a great all purpose bike on pavement or gravel. I can get up most hills and spin out on downhills at around 27 mph.

For a ride (paved and gravel) in Alaska two years ago, I did change the crankset to allow 2x, (26/38) because I was carrying luggage (handlebar roll, frame bag and extraWheel trailer). Without luggage and mountains to climb, I stay in the 38T ring.


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