# Marino Bike, custom made frames from Peru.



## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

https://www.marinobike.com/

I posted about this in the Custom Builders forum a while back but got zero response, so thought I'd try again here as I'm seriously considering one. Anyone got one? Seen one? Know of someone who's cousins uncles friend saw someone riding one?

Or do I need to be the guinea pig here...


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## Tom Howard (Jan 8, 2019)

Have a look on the'Steel is Real' facebook page, theres loads on there.

https://www.facebook.com/steelisrealmtb/


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

I dunno, but I'm sold.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

David R said:


> https://www.marinobike.com/
> 
> I posted about this in the Custom Builders forum a while back but got zero response, so thought I'd try again here as I'm seriously considering one. Anyone got one? Seen one? Know of someone who's cousins uncles friend saw someone riding one?
> 
> Or do I need to be the guinea pig here...


They made the frames for the defunct Sick bikes right? I thought those bikes were really well received, construction wise. They are on my list for a progressive geo hardtail. Was also looking at the On-One Hello Dave, which was the remainder of the Sick Bikes frames bought by On-One initially and are now being built by On-Ones builder. Price is crazy good from Marino, though shipping from Peru might be interesting.


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## HEMIjer (Jul 17, 2008)

I am also interested in these would love to see more pics with geo, weight, and ride quality review. Some folks having good luck with them on the Hardcore Hardtail FB group.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

rockcrusher said:


> They made the frames for the defunct Sick bikes right? I thought those bikes were really well received, construction wise. They are on my list for a progressive geo hardtail. Was also looking at the On-One Hello Dave, which was the remainder of the Sick Bikes frames bought by On-One initially and are now being built by On-Ones builder. Price is crazy good from Marino, though shipping from Peru might be interesting.


They made some of the frames for Sick. Some of them were made in the far east (like the frame that became the Hello Dave).

I think it is $100-$110 to ship to the US from Marino.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

David R said:


> https://www.marinobike.com/
> 
> I posted about this in the Custom Builders forum a while back but got zero response, so thought I'd try again here as I'm seriously considering one. Anyone got one? Seen one? Know of someone who's cousins uncles friend saw someone riding one?
> 
> Or do I need to be the guinea pig here...


I had Marino do a fine trials specific frame years ago. It was very well done and the price was very reasonable. Marino will build what you want as you want it. Shipping was a little expense but expected for the distance and customs etc.

Basically, you need to know precisely what you want in terms of frame design, geometry and lengths of sections for any custom, hand crafted frame to work out to be "Unicorn" status.


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## Taroroot (Nov 6, 2013)

Finch Platte said:


> I dunno, but I'm sold.


If I were still into trials, I'd consider it.
This promo image doesn't do it for me though. No bike polo for me, do it the real way with cycleball, do the hipsters even know cycleball?


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

Cheers, good feedback. I've emailed him to get an idea of the lead time and to get a couple of other questions sorted.


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## TripleR (Dec 26, 2005)

I sent in my deposit last fall, went through a few revisions on geo, details etc. and then the pandemic hit. I received a few emails about being shut down and delays. I've sent a few emails for an update with no response so I still have faith in them....fingers crossed.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Taroroot said:


> If I were still into trials, I'd consider it.
> This promo image doesn't do it for me though. No bike polo for me, do it the real way with cycleball, do the hipsters even know cycleball?


The gurl is an extra... Psychoball? Hmmm, now that could be interesting!


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## Taroroot (Nov 6, 2013)

BansheeRune said:


> The gurl is an extra... Psychoball? Hmmm, now that could be interesting!


Have you seen any of it? It can seem pretty psycho! Its a real organized sport that takes some very real skill. The bikes are pretty funky, I'm pretty sure this company could make one, but its design is so specialized I can't see riding it for anything else. Way beyond fixies doing skids and track stands.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Taroroot said:


> Have you seen any of it? It can seem pretty psycho! Its a real organized sport that takes some very real skill. The bikes are pretty funky, I'm pretty sure this company could make one, but its design is so specialized I can't see riding it for anything else. Way beyond fixies doing skids and track stands.


Thanks for the reply! It does sound like a good time and good peeps having great camaraderie involving bikes. Also, the design of bike for that purpose would stand to reason being of a special design for the sport since it is so unique.

In one of my previous posts, I mentioned custom frames requiring very intimate knowledge of what folks are looking for. Cycleball sounds to be one of the more demanding designs that would require each detail to be just so.

Fixies and reverse gear! I love reversing on a fixie and tripping people up as I take off! Also installing the drive train on the left makes folks do a double take and scratch their heads as they ponder what is out of place. Fun stuff!


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

TripleR said:


> I sent in my deposit last fall...


Your fall is around October-November eh? That's a pretty long wait for a frame, custom or not. Interesting to see how long they take to get back to me.


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

*Be patient*









I'm in the US, received my frame ~3 weeks ago. I put my deposit down in December, and they finished the build and I finalized my payment in June.

DJ / pumptrack bike - first of this type of bike that I've owned. I had a hard time finding locals who could confirm satisfaction with their Marino build; frankly, I didn't find any evidence of one in the US, which gave me pause initially.

The design process was easily handled by Elijah, who's English was at least as good as mine. The order communication was satisfactory. Pandemic hit suddenly and things changed significantly (as it has for the majority of the world), just as they were starting to crank out lots of customs for non-US customers, as well as a run of production frames. Lots to build, limited labor available due to virus safety protocol.

I received a few updates during the build with photos (tacked, completed, then post-coating). After payment in early June, I waited for shipping details - specifically I wanted a tracking number, because I didn't want it to arrive while out of town. I sent requests for tracking numbers that were eventually answered but didn't include tracking numbers. The reasons were clarified eventually - key handlers were away from their respective offices. After the process I understand their process shipping to the US, and it's a bit convoluted: Items are bundle shipped from Peru, then split up once state side to be shipped to end point. Mine landed in Miami, then went to Portland (Terra Cycle), then to me in CA. I was supposed to get a tracking number once shipped from Portland, but they had someone standing in for the usual guy, and for whatever reason the communication fell through the cracks. The frame arrived well/over packaged.

The frame is everything I wanted though it's worth mentioning a few details:
The rear IS brake mount I was expecting was slotted so that the caliper could be adjusted along with the chain tension. It arrived with the standard round-hole IS tabs, and at first that threw me off a bit. With more than a dozen subtle revisions communicated back and forth over several months, I'm uncertain if they used the basic IS tabs because of a communication gap, or because Marino knew better than I that it would work just fine without the slots. He certainly has built far more DJ frames than I have ever ridden, and it works as it should for this application.

Tire clearance: I spec'ed it to clear a 2.3, and the Schwalbe 2.25 Table Tops on widish EX471s clear even in the shortest CS position. It is a bit closer than I expected, so I recommend spec'ing an extra .2" if I were going to order a trail frame, just to be on the safe side. Again, not a problem for this application because it will never see mud and crud.

I had no trouble getting the BB to thread in, though I'd have chased one side again if I owned the tool to do so. Cleaned it up a bit with a wire brush and TriFlow, and the greased cup threaded in well enough.

The powder coat looks fine, though I'd recommend avoiding the two tone fade (and they probably would also recommend against it) unless you opt for wet paint (they explained via email that making an even, gradual fade is easier with wet paint before I committed to the PC choice). It looks just fine to me for this bike. Just putting that out there in case you're seeking a Rembrandt.

I ordered through Marino after a lot of hesitation, because I was curious, and because what I wanted wasn't jewelry. I borrowed the Transition PBJ geometry and tweaked it a bit, and opted for a riskier aesthetic - all knowing that ultimately this would just be thrown around, likely crashed, etc. It's a tool for fun (primarily to fart around on at the pumptrack with my 4 year old son). Heck, it'll be easy to spot if it gets stolen too I suppose.

It built up easily enough, and came with a seat collar and headset (didn't expect the latter, not sure if was supposed to be included / ask about this if you order).

In short, it took a while to come, and I was getting nervous for a period. But considering the price, and the disruptive world event that coincided with delays, I'm satisfied with it. He certainly does more complicated projects than this. I'd look for more feedback if seeking something more detailed.


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

Cool, thanks for the follow up! Glad you're happy with the bike, it looks pretty good. I emailed them when I made this thread a few weeks ago but have yet to hear back. I've tentatively paid a deposit for a new Honzo ST but it's not due til April. I'd still consider going with Marino depending on the time-frame, if they reply. I can understand why they're busy though!


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## pushie (Aug 3, 2020)

I just got one, not direct from Marino though. A mates business ordered a few a while bike and I scored the last frame they had. Haven't ridden it properly yet but super excited to. It was built up to a budget from new and used parts.

View attachment 1365421


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

I will be getting one or two done maybe late this year.

I know they moved the workshop and its back up and running


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I started my order process for a Marino. I submitted the web form on 11/19/20, and I got my first geo diagram toss yesterday (11/28/20). I made a few updates and tossed it back this morning. Marino is saying 10-12 weeks for the build, but my experience from other custom builders says to about double that time frame.

I'm getting something like a Surly Krampus, but a big longer reach, a bit longer chainstays, and quite a bit more stack. I'll post as I learn more.


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

Choice! I'll be interested to hear how the process goes if you can keep us updated. 10-12 weeks is pretty reasonable all things considered, so it'll be interesting to see how closely he can stick to that.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I got an updated drawing from Marino last night, I'm almost ready to finish the design process Q&A with them.

FYI, I asked about tubing, and they said:

_Hi, for thinner walls you'll have to go with heat treated 4130 or 725, which both are essentially the same material, the only difference is the certification of Reynolds as a brand.

We have these tubes available:

Top tube: 31.8mm*09-06-09 or 28.6mm*09-06-09

Downtube: 34.9mm*09-06-09 or 31.8mm*09-06-09

Seatstays: 16 mm or 19 mm *09 mm

Chainstays: 22.2 x 1.0 tapered 13 mm

For the headtube we only have 100mm, 110mm, 120mm, 135mm, 150mm and 180mm._

I want light and springy, so I'm going 28.6 9/6/9 top tube, with the skinner seat stays, but the 34.9 down tube, in the 4130 HT.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I'm starting to get a bit worried. After a few back and forths about geo, it's been radio silence from Marino since Nov 30. I don't have any money down yet, so I'm not worried about losing anything, but feedback is always nice. I find myself looking for another frame for my growing parts pile, but there is almost nothing out there right now. Frustrating all around.


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## TripleR (Dec 26, 2005)

I received my frames within a year due to covid. Elijah was very detailed in his emails and my frames came out great!


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Thanks for the reality check on the lead times. This will motivate my search for an interim frame.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I'm thinking 10-12 weeks is optimistic. I made my deposit and gave them a bikecad 2D model in Dec 2018 and the frame didn't leave Peru until 3 months later mid-March '19. I opted for EMS which took almost 2 weeks (rec'd Mar 25 '19), which made me doubt if it was worth it over economy sea-based shipping. The frame seemingly went up in small steps, verifying personalization and customization, like water bottle mounts, gussets, paint, logos, engraving, etc. I did end up using the bottle mounts under the top-tube and downtube, but not for water bottles.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

I would be interested in hearing how much flex the rear-end has? i know a guy with a dual suspension Marino here and its a bit flexy looking(side to side flex)


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

The tail-wag type of flexing is enough to worry about shock side-loading and the possible fatigue damage build-up. One of the threads on the aluminum bridge thingee (under the shock mount) has stripped on me.

It rides well though. Starling Murmur had similar criticism. I noticed it on the Yeti SB150 as well.

Flex is apparent elsewhere too. I've had my crank contact the swingarm on steep punchy climbs.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

i'll be getting a hardtail from them first but its tempting


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## pushie (Aug 3, 2020)

Varaxis said:


> I've had my crank contact the swingarm on steep punchy climbs.


I took mine to a local steel frame repairer because the cranks where too close to the chain stay and would foul them when pedalling hard. Partially because the clearance was not enough, partially because there is a lot of flex in the rear end.

He put a bend in the chain stays for me to gain some extra clearance.

He said the chain stays at least are definitely not chromoly, it much to soft. The stay bent very very easily. What should have taken a couple of hours of man handling took a few minutes. He said its likely not going to a be huge issue as the chain stays are under tension during riding but if the rest of the frame is also just some form of mild steel it is a bit concerning. he said it likely wont hold up to any serious impacts.

I've been riding the bike since without issue.

The paint has come off from around the top of the rear shock mount. They only weld them on the sides and I think there is a bit of flex in the shock mount bracket and the paint filling the gap breaks and flakes off.

Love the bike though. Its made with very aggressive geo and just eats any terrain you point it down.


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

Oh man that's some interesting feedback! I have zero interest in their FS bike TBH, but if they're not using chromoly where they said they were maybe they're doing the same on the hardtails too. What tubing did you order?

My Honzo is set to arrive on schedule (this week some time!) so I'm kinda glad I didn't hedge my bets by ordering a Marino too.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Aside from a few questions back and forth, no news on mine. Glad I got an interim frame.


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## pushie (Aug 3, 2020)

David R said:


> What tubing did you order?


I didn't order the frame personally but I know who did and they wouldn't have stumped for the Reynolds. Because I didn't buy direct I haven't contacted them about the issue. I got the frame for a song so I'm not really complaining (yet). It has certainly taken a beating so far and survived one quite heavy crash that bruised my ribs (my fault, not the bikes).

It may be a mistake on Marino's part or they may have been supplied the wrong materials, who knows, but you would think a frame builder that is experienced working with steel would be able to tell the difference between different grades of steel. Caveat emptor!


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

Came across this thread while looking for chatter about Marino's current turnaround time. He built a frame for me a couple of years ago that had a few minor issues and he offered to build me another frame. Things seemed to be moving along; I got progress photos for a little while then things slowed down, communication became inconsistent, then COVID hit...I got a response from him that nothing could be shipped and that his help were quarantined, etc, then haven't heard back since.

For those that want to know more about the whole experience in more detail, you can read it here:





A new adventure/experiment: Custom Hardtail Frame!


In the past couple of years, I've been really enjoying my current hardtail (Nukeproof Scout 275); not just the fun side of it, but the simplicity and dependability... especially in the past year, with my FS headaches. The only thing that could make it better would be to make it steel, along with ...




austinmountainbiking.com


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I'd more or less given up on my frame, but today out of the blue I got an email my frame is complete!










Should have gone with the 180mm headtube over the 150mm...


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

Looks great. Report back when you get it together. What was the total turnaround time between putting down your deposit and receiving it?


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I haven't received it yet--this picture is from Marino's shop. I still need to get an invoice to pay the balance and ship it. 

I put down my $100 deposit on 1/5/21, so right on 5 months from deposit to build.

One interesting catch: I thought they would contact me when I was up in the build queue, to double check my geo and color... nope. I missed my chance for some geo tweaks, maybe for the best! I could probably tweak it forever.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

theMISSIONARY said:


> I would be interested in hearing how much flex the rear-end has? i know a guy with a dual suspension Marino here and its a bit flexy looking(side to side flex)


Small diameter steel tubing is stiff, because steel, but that's a fairly poor way to design an FS bike. The rear end is free to torque the main pivot and twist the rear triangle shock mast. Swing links at the top eliminate this and Foes was especially notable for making single pivot designs with no rate change where the scissor swing link only increased stiffness to prevent rear end flex and shock loading. Although you can make _any_ design stiff, it takes incredible reinforcement and weight with a design like that. The polar opposite would be something like a short-link parallel/mini-link bike, like a Revel, Intense, Pivot, etc. Those are much more laterally rigid by design, although a little heavier too.

The other issue looks to be a significant falling rate, which is a pretty bad way to design rear suspension. The rear shock mount and shock need to be moved backwards significantly to achieve a rising rate, which is why you see designs like the original guerrilla gravity DH bike, with either an interrupted seat tube or pass-through for the shock. You can also mount the shock with the front end pointing more down, to achieve a rising rate, but that's more inefficient structurally as it requires a significantly reinforced downtube. Basically, as the rear eyelet passes the vertical plane in line with the main pivot, it's falling rate.

These are the two reasons you don't see this design much. It _can_ be done right, like that GG bike, but too many of them in the past and present are not. The old Santa Cruz bikes were pretty bad too in these regards.


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## SkyAboveDirtBelow (Apr 14, 2019)

This thread reminds me to ask whatever happened to the Sick Bicycle guys? They were hilarious. It was like they learned public relations from Tony Ellsworth and that douche who ran Chumba. I see their website is defunct. I would have thought they would give up trying to sell frames and retreat to only selling MTB lifestyle clothing covered with imagery from 1980's metal album art.


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## fmendes (Jun 25, 2016)

So I'm putting together my HT using a Marino frame. It was not my design as a buddy who ordered it had a bad crash and needed money for surgery, so I bought from him; still looks like will fit me just fine.

Almost everything mounted as should and, despite I'm using right now a 140mm fork instead of the 170mm selected for that design, the frame looks well aligned. Only exceptions were the BB threads, that needed some wire brushing to clean a gunk that was preventing the thread to engage. Also the curve by the cable/housing of the dropper post is a bit tighter than I'd like, but is working now. Hopefully it wont start to drag any time soon. More pictures by the end of the week.


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## fmendes (Jun 25, 2016)

Here she is! Ready to hit the trails tomorrow. Put a Zeb 180mm, and geometry seems correct. Now I need to fix the lengths of cables and housings. Brakes also need some fine tuning.


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

Holy sh!t 180mm on a hardtail?! Looks great, interesting to hear how you find the ride.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

I am looking forward to one day putting together my two Marinos that I have order. One is going to be a rigid 27.5+ bikepacking/trail setup. The other is a 26in just for fun build (coaster brake or single speed or whatever). 

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk


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## dmeagher (Apr 15, 2020)

I owned a marino for a long time. It was a polo bike, and on of my favorite bikes that I've ever owned. The fork failed rather spectacularly, which I think was an ongoing issue for a while, but the rest the bike was solid despite being abused routinely. 

Also: Bike polo > cycleball.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

fmendes said:


> Here she is! Ready to hit the trails tomorrow. Put a Zeb 180mm, and geometry seems correct. Now I need to fix the lengths of cables and housings. Brakes also need some fine tuning.
> View attachment 1936273


Now that looks like a very fun bike with an aggressive attitude! Good times, incoming...



David R said:


> Holy sh!t 180mm on a hardtail?! Looks great, interesting to hear how you find the ride.


My buddy had a Banshee morphine with a 180mm Marzocci on the front... Worked like a champ!


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## fmendes (Jun 25, 2016)

David R said:


> Holy sh!t 180mm on a hardtail?! Looks great, interesting to hear how you find the ride.


That's more common than it seems. It's definitely different from riding a FS, but that's stating the obvious. The FS will cover bad habits that the HT will expose. Having said that, I used to have 34/140mm fork. In less than three months, I upgraded one bike to 36/150 and put together another one with 38/180. I've been using ~80% of the travel most times. Difference is that now it's much more comfortable.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I got my frame! It came when I was across the country on vacation, so it had to sit for a week until I got home. But it's built now, ready for the first ride tomorrow.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

Does anyone have any commentary on how the bikes ride? Are they supple or harsh, heavy and dead or lively? Be keen to see how they compare to the off the shelf steel frames from commercial brands like Kona, cotic, chromag, Pipedream etc


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I only have a handful of rides on my new bike, and I'm not overwhelmed by the ride quality. It doesn't have that springy steel feeling that the best steel frame have. I went with a smaller diameter (28.6) top tube, to try to get a little more flex in it, but that doesn't seem to have worked for me. The rear end also kind of crashes over bumps, more so than my aluminum hardtail (a Ragley Marley, which admittedly has wider tires and a very short travel PNW Coast suspension dropper post, so not really apples to apples here)

Then again, it is a $250 frame. And the handling and fit are spot on.


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## crembz (Feb 25, 2019)

seat_boy said:


> I only have a handful of rides on my new bike, and I'm not overwhelmed by the ride quality. It doesn't have that springy steel feeling that the best steel frame have. I went with a smaller diameter (28.6) top tube, to try to get a little more flex in it, but that doesn't seem to have worked for me. The rear end also kind of crashes over bumps, more so than my aluminum hardtail (a Ragley Marley, which admittedly has wider tires and a very short travel PNW Coast suspension dropper post, so not really apples to apples here)
> 
> Then again, it is a $250 frame. And the handling and fit are spot on.


Understood thanks, I was afraid that might be the case. I have to admit I'm not an expert in how tube sizes and workmanship effect ride quality. They are cheap frames but you'd still want them to feel decent.

The Ragley is renowned to be a very comfortable frame even though it's alloy. I had one and it has much better ride characteristics than the Dartmoor and nukeproof alloy hardtails that came after.


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## fmendes (Jun 25, 2016)

seat_boy said:


> I only have a handful of rides on my new bike, and I'm not overwhelmed by the ride quality. It doesn't have that springy steel feeling that the best steel frame have. I went with a smaller diameter (28.6) top tube, to try to get a little more flex in it, but that doesn't seem to have worked for me. The rear end also kind of crashes over bumps, more so than my aluminum hardtail (a Ragley Marley, which admittedly has wider tires and a very short travel PNW Coast suspension dropper post, so not really apples to apples here)


My previous experience with a HT was with a Salsa Timberjack (aluminum). I felt the Marino frame with a nice bump absortion, but I'm very heavy (270 lb) and use 27.5 x 2.80 tires.

I felt it very playful, to the point that I dare do some stuff with this bike that I don't usually do with my FS, specially on short segments with lots of features. The wheelbase, however, is longer than my FS.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

seat_boy said:


> I got my frame! It came when I was across the country on vacation, so it had to sit for a week until I got home. But it's built now, ready for the first ride tomorrow.
> View attachment 1938317


What tubing did you go with ? and does it have a seat stay gusset?


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I asked Marino about tubing options, and they replied:

_Hi, for thinner walls you'll have to go with heat treated 4130 or 725, which both are essentially the same material, the only difference is the certification of Reynolds as a brand.

We have these tubes available:
Top tube: 31.8mm*09-06-09 or 28.6mm*09-06-09
Downtube: 34.9mm*09-06-09 or 31.8mm*09-06-09
Seatstays: 16 mm or 19 mm *09 mm
Chainstays: 22.2 x 1.0 tapered 13 mm_

So I opted for:

4130 HT in:
top tube: 28.6 9/6/9
down tube: 34.9 9/6/9
seat stays: 16mm

The only seat stay gusset is on the disc brake reinforcement. There is a seat stay bridge.



theMISSIONARY said:


> What tubing did you go with ? and does it have a seat stay gusset?


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

seat_boy said:


> I only have a handful of rides on my new bike, and I'm not overwhelmed by the ride quality. It doesn't have that springy steel feeling that the best steel frame have. I went with a smaller diameter (28.6) top tube, to try to get a little more flex in it, but that doesn't seem to have worked for me. The rear end also kind of crashes over bumps, more so than my aluminum hardtail (a Ragley Marley, which admittedly has wider tires and a very short travel PNW Coast suspension dropper post, so not really apples to apples here)
> 
> Then again, it is a $250 frame. And the handling and fit are spot on.


Did you previously have a Krampus frame, if so how does the compliance feel in relation to a Krampus frame?
I know these are not going to have high end tubing feel to them, but I'm curious how they compare to normal 4130 frames such as Krampus, KM, Honzo, etc.....


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I had an OG green Krampus. I can't say specifically how the Krampus feels in comparison, because it's been several years. I do recall that the Krampus felt too long and too stiff to me at the time. The Marino's geo feels better, but it just feels kind of heavy and slow. I think a lot of this might be the cheap 29er tires I'm using. I tried it with the 27.5" x 2.7" wheels from my Marley, and it felt better. Not great, but better.

For reference and personal benchmarking, I also had a 2012 KM, and it had a pretty lively ride to me. An older Niner SIR9 was nothing very special, but not bad. A quite old Gunnar Rockhound (still with canti posts!) was about the best riding steel mtb I've had, lively and springy. Should have kept that one. A later Rockhound, larger size, wasn't nearly as good. Maybe stiffer tubing in the bigger frame size.


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

I have a ton of spare parts in the garage and wanted to build up a modernish hardtail bike with the extras. I've been wanting to build a Titanium frame bike and this was a cheap way to build up a test frame with the geometry I _think_ I want. Nothing too crazy aggressive far as the geometry is concerned. Using a 130mm fork. 27.5x2.6" tires. Boost spacing with sliding dropouts so I can eventually single speed it. Mounts for a bolt on top tube bag. Single water bottle mount.

Order placed August 19th.

Got my frame geometry drawing this morning. August 24th.

Few back and forth emails as I changed a few geometry numbers last minute and added the sliding dropouts and asked some frame material questions. Back and forth was very quick as he responded within 5-10 minutes of each query. Now comes the waiting game.


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

DeoreDX said:


> I have a ton of spare parts in the garage and wanted to build up a modernish hardtail bike with the extras. I've been wanting to build a Titanium frame bike and this was a cheap way to build up a test frame with the geometry I _think_ I want. Nothing too crazy aggressive far as the geometry is concerned. Using a 130mm fork. 27.5x2.6" tires. Boost spacing with sliding dropouts so I can eventually single speed it. Mounts for a bolt on top tube bag. Single water bottle mount.
> 
> Order placed August 19th.
> 
> ...


Good luck. While you're at it, ask him when he plans to finish and send the "Geronimo" replacement to Casey Fry. It was a warranty replacement that he started a couple of years ago; the last I saw was a picture of the finished frame ready for paint, then.... GHOST.


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

Quite possibly one of the most unexpected emails I've ever received. Ordered August 19th. Frame drawings approved August 24th. Just received the email my frame is complete a few minutes ago so 41 days since I placed my order. Still need the final bill and packing and shipping so the clock is still running. Someone must have dropped the pile of work orders and when they picked them up mine somehow ended up on top.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

Hammered paint job, nice. Never really thought about that for a bike frame.


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

NorCal_In_AZ said:


> Hammered paint job, nice. Never really thought about that for a bike frame.


I rattle-canned a old road bike with a hammered finish and I thought it turned out great. Saw a hammered texture finish was one of the options and couldn't really find a favorite in any of the colors so I thought it was a different but safe paint choice.


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

DeoreDX said:


> Quite possibly one of the most unexpected emails I've ever received. Ordered August 19th. Frame drawings approved August 24th. Just received the email my frame is complete a few minutes ago so 41 days since I placed my order. Still need the final bill and packing and shipping so the clock is still running. Someone must have dropped the pile of work orders and when they picked them up mine somehow ended up on top.


Holy wow, for a second there I thought they sent you a picture of my frame... Or the other way around... As I got this photo yesterday also! I'm guessing if you asked for the hammered finish, that's why mine got it as well, as I'd just asked for a matte #7 paint job with matte #12 logos. I don't mind it at all, I think it looks amazing  

As for timing you might be right, as I placed my deposit after getting the drafts & geo tweaks finalised in 13th August and was told 12 - 14 weeks, so i wasn't expecting to see anything until November! But maybe they had a few extra people come on, or had a few people cancel, or focused on HT frames over duallies for a while. 

Anyway, now mine just has to ship to Aus before I build her up


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

Isildur said:


> As for timing you might be right, as I placed my deposit after getting the drafts & geo tweaks finalised in 13th August and was told 12 - 14 weeks, so i wasn't expecting to see anything until November! But maybe they had a few extra people come on, or had a few people cancel, or focused on HT frames over duallies for a while.


Someone in the Marino facebook group also go his early and he had the hammered finish as well. I wonder if they went through and knocked out all the hammered finishes for some reason? Maybe it's a little extra paint setup so they did them all in a batch?


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

Isildur said:


> Anyway, now mine just has to ship to Aus before I build her up


You ever get a shipping number/notification? Been over 2 weeks and I haven't heard anything.


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

DeoreDX said:


> You ever get a shipping number/notification? Been over 2 weeks and I haven't heard anything.


As of yet no. Last contact was a week ago confirming all the extra parts I had ordered were, in fact, included. The usual email timeline for me has been 6 days as being on a totally opposite timezone means that by the time I reply, yheir inbox is already flooded with other stuff.

Time for a followup I'd say.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I think it took right about two weeks for my tracker to show any movement. It was a solid month to get my frame from Peru to Ohio.


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

I got a really quick reply to my email today, apparently it goes to the postal office tomorrow, they were finishing off a batch of the CNC Hangers:


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

Got an email a little while ago, 8:20pm my time, but 4:20am Peru time! Pretty stoked to say that it's on the way and I've got a tracking number. Still to early to show up in that tracking system, but I'll be watching it like a hawk in the coming week.


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

Isildur said:


> Got an email a little while ago, 8:20pm my time, but 4:20am Peru time! Pretty stoked to say that it's on the way and I've got a tracking number. Still to early to show up in that tracking system, but I'll be watching it like a hawk in the coming week.


Same. Got my tracking number 4:19 am. Stoked!


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

Sweet! Ha, let's see who gets it first eh? I'd hope that you, being on the same continent would, but with the messed up Covid freght and logistics impacts, I wonder if it gets across the Pacific first...


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

Frame hit the shores of USA yesterday in Miami. Delivery according to the Postal Service web page is scheduled for Friday. Don't let me down USPS!


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

nice one! Mine is still in Peru, "Cleared for export and awaiting departure"...


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Isildur said:


> nice one! Mine is still in Peru, "Cleared for export and awaiting departure"...


Ya, yours was sent at 420 lol


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

006_007 said:


> Ya, yours was sent at 420 lol


Ha true, it's gonna be on the chilled and relaxed commute!


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

Frame came in yesterday. Built it up last night. The build was made with a lot of take off parts. Stem, handlebar, grips, headset, tires, brake adapters, and Boone Titanium cog and cog spacers are the parts I had to buy for the build. Some comments after receiving and building up the frame.

Their passthrough for the dropper post is a small tube and is hard to work with. It has a sharp edge and digs into the housing sheath and grabs it making it hard to feed. I haven't greased the dropper yet as I was test fitting it to cut the cable housing. It's such a PITA to feed the cable housing into the frame it's going to stay like this for a while.

The cable holders for the dropper is routed down the left side of the frame. I like my cables to loop to the opposite side of the frame for the controls and that makes it a bit awkward.

The slot in the seat tube which allows for the seat tube to clamp the seat post had a nasty burr and both edges of the slot were curled in. Almost like the slot was stamped instead of milled. I had to take a file to it to get the seatpost to insert correctly without gouging it up.

Welds look good. Paint looks amazing. Outside of the dropper passthrough I'm really happy with the frame. I can't beleive I forgot to weigh it before I built it up though.

The tugs on the dropouts seem like a really small diameter screw compared to other bikes I've seen with sliding dropouts.

I sized the bike with a 140mm fork in mind. My 140mm fork is on another bike right so I put a old 120mm Recon on the bike. When measured the head tube angle with my electronic angle it measured at 65.8 degrees with the 120mm fork. I had expected it to measure steeper with the shorter fork. Looking at my CAD drawing from Marino when you look closely at the measurement to the fork it's not to the center of the wheel. I suspect the geometry is based on the fork sagged. Might want to double check and specify if you intended your geometry to be sagged v unsagged.


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

Thansk for the write up. My frame is still chilling out in Peru waiting for a plane to come to Aus. Thankfully now that we've opened up our borders after 18 months of them being closed due to Covid, that should happen much faster.

Interesting points on the dropper post routing. When I specified my frame, I was able to choose left or right internal routing. I went internal rear derailleur routing also, and only had the rear brake line totally external, as I realy hate having to cut & re-olive a brake between every build! I'll keep an eye on the routing holes and maybe give them a really light file with some fine grit emery paper on the inner edge to smooth things out.

Also intersting on the geometry. I asked specifically if they did geo sagged or unsagged given the specified A2C, 568mm in my case for a 160m CC Helm Air, and they defiinitely stated everything un-sagged. I hope that's the case with my frame as otherwise the geo will be thrown out all over.

They've got your A2C in your geo sheet as 522mm, which I'd put down as a 130mm fork, rather than 140mm. A 650b Pike or Lyrik at 160mm is 552mm. That might be where your extra steepness is coming from.

Good luck with the finishing process and your first ride!


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

That hammerite finish has a fairly thick and soft gloss clear coat, if it's the same one i got. I covered mine in paint protection film (3m scotchgard stuff).

Just saying to bring your attention to it, before you get too excited, and lose the opportunity to protect it when it's fresh. 

On a somewhat related note, it's #internationalsinglespeedday apparently.


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

Thanks for the heads up. I had been debating whether to get it frameskinned here... Problem is the local mob here (who do fantstic work) cost almost as much as the frame! Definitley a splash in the ocean when comparing the cost of a shiny new carbon dually frame, but not so cost effective!

Still plenty of time for me to ponder though...


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

Isildur said:


> Also intersting on the geometry. I asked specifically if they did geo sagged or unsagged given the specified A2C, 568mm in my case for a 160m CC Helm Air, and they defiinitely stated everything un-sagged. I hope that's the case with my frame as otherwise the geo will be thrown out all over.
> 
> They've got your A2C in your geo sheet as 522mm, which I'd put down as a 130mm fork, rather than 140mm. A 650b Pike or Lyrik at 160mm is 552mm. That might be where your extra steepness is coming from.
> 
> Good luck with the finishing process and your first ride!


I have a old Non-boost Fox 36 I will eventually move over to it when I get a new fork for my trail bike. The 522 is what I measured on my fork.

In the notes when I ordered I did say my geometry was based on unsagged fork. For those reading this thread thinking of ordering a Marino it's probably something they will want to double check when they get their drawings from Elijah.


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

My frame hit the country on Thursday and is on for delivery today! Of course I'm not in the office today so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to finally get my hands on it...

Ha, after this many months I suppose one more day isn't going to kill me!


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

Here's a sneak peak... Managed to get a dry window in among our La Nina weather in Sydney at the moment to get it all laid out. 2 mins after I took this photo it started to rain again!

The build should happen this weekend!


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

Righteo, she's built up and I'll get some pictures tomorrow. A couple of very interesting things... And one very annoying thing...


Head tube and BB faces were actually flat!
The internal dropper and rear derailleur cable runs are guided, which made life much easier considering a typical Park Tool cable set wouldn't work as the whole thing is magnetic 
The dropper routing is super tight around the downtube to seattube juntion.

Now the annoying thing... It's a bit over 2 degrees slacker than I specified. My phone reads the HA as 61.5 degrees. The seat angle measures as spec'd at 74 degrees, so it's not a "sag/unsagged" geo thing (and my phone reads my Ripmo HA bang on where it should be, so it's fairly accurate as phones go). Right now I'm pretty annoyed and have emailed them to find out what happened and what can be done.

Some may say it's a small thing, but it will change the ride dynamic fairly strongly! The point, for me, of going a custom geo bulid was to get what I asked for, not what I didn't... It seems that both @DeoreDX and I have encountered the same issue with Geo and Head Angle.

More updates to come as I wait for a reply from Marino.


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

As an edit to the above, looking over my draft again I did actually spec a 76 degree SA, so the 2 degrees appears to have come from them building the frame around an incorrect A2C - perhaps built "sagged" - which sucks as that's not mentioned anywhere at all on their site or during the build process. The wheelbase is also about 30mm longer, which is no surprise if they were building sagged.

So far they have replied quickly overnight, but only to say they meaure the frames correctly in the jig when building and for me to send through a picture of the bike "like it is in the draft" - aka on a flat surface. Needless to say this has been done along with a few other measurements for them.

I've also mentioned this sag/unsagged and politely mentioned that's the reason I supplied an A2C, for the frame to built to spec with that A2C!


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

One thing I noticed after the fact is the top and bottom surfaces of my head tube are not square. I measured with my calipers and it's 0.6mm off from front to back. None of my LBS's have a facing tool. Might have to check a couple of the local builders if they can face the head tube square.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

I just got a photo of one of my two frames. Fingers crossed that it is all good.


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

So it's been a couple of weeks and I've finally got an outcome on the frame. Marino Bikes finally came back with the admission the geometry drafting was done "sagged" rather than static. They say by 20mm, but the numbers definitely suggest 40mm or so. Either way I'm happy that they're building a new frame around a new draft.

The resolution for me here in Aus is a heavily discounted new frame being built for the correct one, to basically save a lot of freight costs for them, and a lot of time without a hardtail for me. I could have gone a cost free route for me, but that involved waiting for the frame to be sent back, a new one produced and then shipped out here. My last timeline was 4 months from start to finish, with the return and Christmas involved I could probably have expected that to blow out to 6 months, so I'm pretty happy with the result. 

Might be able to sell the old frame on here once the new one arrives, but it might just go on the wall if no one wanted to buy it. 

I've definitely learnt to use BikeCAD in the last week to check, double check and triple check the geo numbers. I had previously been going on a few other geo sites that just weren't particularly accurate. 

So, I was highly suggest that for anyone getting a Marino frame built, make sure you check the geo yourself by mocking up your numbers in BikeCAD (the free version is a bit slow, but functional) and make sure you either factor in sag, or make sure that you define that the numbers you give are for a "static" build if that's what you're expecting.

I really like the look of the frame and although the slackness will be a bit too much for my proposed usages, I'm very happy with the end result even if it will take a bit more time.


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## socalrider77 (Sep 1, 2012)

Isildur said:


> So it's been a couple of weeks and I've finally got an outcome on the frame. Marino Bikes finally came back with the admission the geometry drafting was done "sagged" rather than static. They say by 20mm, but the numbers definitely suggest 40mm or so. Either way I'm happy that they're building a new frame around a new draft.
> 
> The resolution for me here in Aus is a heavily discounted new frame being built for the correct one, to basically save a lot of freight costs for them, and a lot of time without a hardtail for me. I could have gone a cost free route for me, but that involved waiting for the frame to be sent back, a new one produced and then shipped out here. My last timeline was 4 months from start to finish, with the return and Christmas involved I could probably have expected that to blow out to 6 months, so I'm pretty happy with the result.
> 
> ...


Can you post the geo numbers again for the frame you’ll be selling? Might be interested and also have some buddies looking for hardtails


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Isildur (Nov 10, 2007)

socalrider77 said:


> Can you post the geo numbers again for the frame you’ll be selling? Might be interested and also have some buddies looking for hardtails
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'll post them up a bit later on, but I'm also down in Australia which may make the sale a bit more challenging


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## jmitchelltfo (5 mo ago)

Any updates on the quality of Marino's frames? I'm considering a montercross gravel/commuter frameset and just wanted to see about any recent QC or customer service issues.


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