# downhill hardtail?



## toyota kawasaki (Apr 7, 2005)

eveyrthing i see downhill is with FS rigs.. what if you want to use hardtail?


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## nobody242424 (Nov 19, 2004)

then use one. i know alot of people who throwdown on downhill courses on hardtials


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## Mud _ Butt (May 12, 2005)

toyota kawasaki said:


> eveyrthing i see downhill is with FS rigs.. what if you want to use hardtail?


Freeride hardtails = good

DownHill Hardtails = not so good


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## Sombrio69 (Apr 21, 2005)

toyota kawasaki said:


> eveyrthing i see downhill is with FS rigs.. what if you want to use hardtail?


 well it probably depends on the DH course, but if you wanted to use a hardtail i would use a Banshee Morphine just cause it has a good reputation as far as being a freerideing hardtail and it is like the strongest HT out there also you can also use a long travel fork


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## DanD (Jan 15, 2004)

toyota kawasaki said:


> eveyrthing i see downhill is with FS rigs.. what if you want to use hardtail?


 Mostly used for FR, but I really wanna DH on it on a more mellow course so that the penalty of the lack of suspension isn't significant.


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## Mud _ Butt (May 12, 2005)

If your idea of DH is groomed runs with banked corners everywhere, then that bike is just fine.

If your looking to blast 50mph through bolder gardens, that HT is death.

I would personally rock the **** out of that rig, very nice setup.  Must be a killer hucker.

That's the best sig I've seen yet:



> It's a signature, not a ****ing novel


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## JBsoxB (May 18, 2004)

Mud _ Butt said:


> If your idea of DH is groomed runs with banked corners everywhere, then that bike is just fine.
> 
> If your looking to blast* 50mph through bolder gardens*, that HT is death.
> 
> I would personally rock the **** out of that rig, very nice setup.  Must be a killer hucker.


then wouldn't you float over the tops? i do that on stair cases.


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## Mud _ Butt (May 12, 2005)

JBsoxB said:


> then wouldn't you float over the tops? i do that on stair cases.


I would hope! Maybe float is a bad word? How about survive?


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## JBsoxB (May 18, 2004)

Mud _ Butt said:


> I would hope! *Maybe float is a bad word*? How about survive?


then skim.


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## BJ- (Jan 28, 2004)

toyota kawasaki said:


> eveyrthing i see downhill is with FS rigs.. what if you want to use [a] hardtail?


then bloody use it...


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## LandonVega (Jul 14, 2004)

BJ- said:


> then bloody use it...


 emphasis on "bloody"


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

DanD said:


> Mostly used for FR, but I really wanna DH on it on a more mellow course so that the penalty of the lack of suspension isn't significant.


dan, if i can hit keystone on my hardtail with a 5" single crown fork, and (nearly) keep up with the fullies in the group, you'll not have any problems on that bike. beefier than my bike was, but then, i'm also a weenie on drops more than 3 or 4 feet.

for the original poster: sure, a hardtail is slower in general on the really nasty stuff, and you have to be smarter about picking lines, but none of that is any reason to not go for it!

what made a big difference for me was dropping the seat as much as i could, and running the fattest tires i could on the front and rear. granted, i can fit a 2.7 maxxis or intense in the rear of my hardtail.

dave
(looking forward to a summer playing more on the lifts now that i have a fully.......)


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

scrublover said:


> dan, if i can hit keystone on my hardtail with a 5" single crown fork, and (nearly) keep up with the fullies in the group, you'll not have any problems on that bike. beefier than my bike was, but then, i'm also a weenie on drops more than 3 or 4 feet.
> 
> for the original poster: sure, a hardtail is slower in general on the really nasty stuff, and you have to be smarter about picking lines, but none of that is any reason to not go for it!
> 
> ...


goottta love keystone


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> goottta love keystone


yep. it and angelfire are the only two places i've done any lift assisted riding. both with my hardtail. AF once, keystone half a dozen times. with the new fully, i think i'll spend a bit more time doing that this summer. i'll check out vail a time or two as well, i'm sure.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Keystone


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## DanD (Jan 15, 2004)

scrublover said:


> dan, if i can hit keystone on my hardtail with a 5" single crown fork, and (nearly) keep up with the fullies in the group, you'll not have any problems on that bike. beefier than my bike was, but then, i'm also a weenie on drops more than 3 or 4 feet.
> 
> for the original poster: sure, a hardtail is slower in general on the really nasty stuff, and you have to be smarter about picking lines, but none of that is any reason to not go for it!
> 
> ...


 Oh ya, I have no doubt in my ability to do it, but I need all the help I can get when it comes to actual racing, and I have a full squish bike so I might as well use it for angel fire and keystone. I definitely wanna ride the hard tail on the tamer courses such as crested butte and snow mass.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

DanD said:


> Oh ya, I have no doubt in my ability to do it, but I need all the help I can get when it comes to actual racing, and I have a full squish bike so I might as well use it for angel fire and keystone. I definitely wanna ride the hard tail on the tamer courses such as crested butte and snow mass.


I just don't know...if it was me even on the tamer courses i would still want a full suspension bike...even if it was 5 inches in the rear.....Full suspension is very nice


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## DanD (Jan 15, 2004)

have you ridden the course they use at snowmass?


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

DanD said:


> have you ridden the course they use at snowmass?


never..................................


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## DanD (Jan 15, 2004)

the year I rode it, it was a small step above paved pathway with a moderate grade


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

DanD said:


> the year I rode it, it was a small step above paved pathway with a moderate grade


well then a hardtail is in order...how do they get away calling it a dh trail insted od xc???


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

DanD said:


> Oh ya, I have no doubt in my ability to do it, but I need all the help I can get when it comes to actual racing, and I have a full squish bike so I might as well use it for angel fire and keystone. I definitely wanna ride the hard tail on the tamer courses such as crested butte and snow mass.


ah, got it. didn't know if that was your only bike or not.

hell, take the hardtail to keystone for a day, just to see. it'll be an eye opener as to how much the suspension works for you on the other bike. and it can only make you smoother, right? at least, that's what i always told myself!


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

scrublover said:


> ah, got it. didn't know if that was your only bike or not.
> 
> hell, take the hardtail to keystone for a day, just to see. it'll be an eye opener as to how much the suspension works for you on the other bike. and it can only make you smoother, right? at least, that's what i always told myself!


FS instead of a hardtail is like night and a day time nuclear bomb explosion


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## East Coast Bender (Nov 25, 2004)

I think that HT's with DC forks look a little goofy but thats probably because ive never seen one in person to appreciate it


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## KingRexford (Feb 6, 2004)

Sombrio69 said:


> well it probably depends on the DH course, but if you wanted to use a hardtail i would use a Banshee Morphine just cause it has a good reputation as far as being a freerideing hardtail and it is like the strongest HT out there also you can also use a long travel fork


I think there is other HT bikes out there that may contend as the strongest HT...Evil and BMW both come to mind among others.


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## DWF (Jan 12, 2004)

East Coast Bender said:


> I think that HT's with DC forks look a little goofy but thats probably because ive never seen one in person to appreciate it


I think they look pretty cool. My son will be racing his hardtail in DH & SuperD events this year. Doesn't seem to be slowing him down any. It will help you pick & appreciate the smoother line. Photo by Kristian.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> FS instead of a hardtail is like night and a day time nuclear bomb explosion


oh, i can already tell. i've been over to fruita and moab with it already, and a few local rides. it's not replacing my hardtail as the "daily ride" by any means, but for the lift and long shuttle stuff, i already like it!


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## s1ngletrack (Aug 31, 2004)

scrublover said:


> dave
> (looking forward to a summer playing more on the lifts now that i have a fully.......)


WILD THANG bahbah.. bahbah - You make ma heart sing bahbah..bahbah...


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

s1ngletrack said:


> WILD THANG bahbah.. bahbah - You make ma heart sing bahbah..bahbah...


 yep. i like the new stuff form last summer, but i'd rather have more tight/twisty/techy in the trees stuff vs. just straight down the mountian. speed is good, but more techy works for me. 
i'm working on that whole getting my wheels higher off the ground thing.

i've got about a 2/3 success rate on that section on the hardtail. looking to up that a bit this year.


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## MicroHuck (Jan 31, 2005)

DWF said:


> I think they look pretty cool. My son will be racing his hardtail in DH & SuperD events this year. Doesn't seem to be slowing him down any. It will help you pick & appreciate the smoother line. Photo by Kristian.


Nice! That's some tech shnit there!

All these pics of HTs with DC forks is making me drool. Me wanty! Wanna trade bikes? 

BTW, has anyne put a Fox 36 onto a hardtail yet? That would be my ultimate HT dreambike!!!


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## MorphineAddict (Mar 19, 2004)

Oohh yeah....... Gotta love the HT with a DC fork.


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## NorcoRider (Dec 30, 2004)

if ur gonna go wit the hardtail i would reccomend a norco torrent.


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## Guest (May 14, 2005)

my all around HT


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

DONT GET ME STARTED ON THE HARDTAIL PRIDE.........

I think this is what Jbsox was refering to as "SKIMMING"...


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## VIA (Feb 12, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> my all around HT


Here is my all around one...

Will PK be a good place to test it..!

EDIT.
Sorry... no more pouser pics. next will be in action..


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

VIA said:


> Here is my all around one...
> 
> Will PK be a good place to test it..!


GORGEOUS.
24" rear?


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## VIA (Feb 12, 2004)

JSUN said:


> GORGEOUS.
> 24" rear?


Si..
26"3.0/24"2.6


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## DanD (Jan 15, 2004)

I like how the big front tire really makes the 24 stand out...for example I don't think anyone noticed that I'm running a 24 since I'm running a smaller front tire than back. I like it a lot


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## Guest (May 14, 2005)

VIA said:


> EDIT.
> Sorry... no more pouser pics. next will be in action..


Action pics?  Heres my Fav.


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## badlander (Feb 4, 2005)

*New build*

Had to go with the Surly (downhill in MN? We have SKI resorts!!!). Never been ridden yet with the new Fox. Rick


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## TheSherpa (Jan 15, 2004)

DanD said:


> have you ridden the course they use at snowmass?


Hobomist raced a Surly at Snowmass Nats last year on the sport course. You'll be faster on a fully just because of the horrible braking bumps that form. And the expert course also has some techier spots where you'll want a FS.

Vail owns Keystone.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

TheSherpa said:


> Vail owns Keystone.


I liked Keystone better......I hated the "fireroad" at the end of all trails before the lift at Vail


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## TheSherpa (Jan 15, 2004)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> I liked Keystone better......I hated the "fireroad" at the end of all trails before the lift at Vail


That did suck, but the '94 WC course was soo fun.


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## toyota kawasaki (Apr 7, 2005)

like seriosuly i dont realy want a fs bike.. hardtails are sweet

but i do agree a DC looks kinda whack


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

badlander said:


> Had to go with the Surly (downhill in MN? We have SKI resorts!!!). Never been ridden yet with the new Fox. Rick


Interesting frame choice for a hardcore hardtail.
Those seatstays are almost the same diameter of the DeeMax spokes!!
Whats the frame made of?? it seems awfully flexible and weak....
.No offense whatsoever, just interesting build.


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## MicroHuck (Jan 31, 2005)

toyota kawasaki said:


> like seriosuly i dont realy want a fs bike.. hardtails are sweet
> 
> but i do agree a DC looks kinda whack


hardtails are also more fun, more challenging, and let you get that seat damn low.

Plus, if someone cleans the same huge huck on a HT that someone else did on a FS, who's got the skilz?

FS allows more room for error. On a HT you gotta get damn good to be smooth.


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## theOtherMrT (Jul 17, 2004)




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## wickerman1 (Dec 24, 2003)

Most higher end hardtails today are designed to handle o DC fork. Devinci Hucker can handle a 7 inch fork. Its approved by Devinci so if anyone snaps a frame and they're worried because they had a DC fork on it, dont worry its made to handle.
I agree about hardtails are more fun, and as far as i see it, easier to climb while still being in the saddle. The only problem i had with climbing on my bike is if you have to stand to climb, there is a traction issue which a FS would be handy... but for the price difference, I think I'll stick to my hardtail.
When I ride with people from here( which is about once a year lol) I'm the only one with a hardtail as of to date.... everyone has bikes that are bigger then my van lol.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

my buddies kona


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## Racingroo (May 14, 2005)

*My experience*

Talking from my personal experience, I had a P3 that I did some FR with and a touch of DH. It was good for some smooth tracks and drops with a nice tranny, but over rocky sections it pretty much vibrated my sperms to death. I'm glad I did buy a P3 though, because now I know how much better a dual suspension bike is. I was amazed by how fast you can attack rocky sections with my new bighit. This has given me more confidence to do bigger stuff and in general made me more excited about DH then I ever was with my P3.


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## manwithgun (Aug 12, 2004)

I race both, and from a racing/flat pedals perspective, the hardest task on a HT is keeping the pedals while stroking through the rougher sections at speed. Aside from the obvious benefits of a fully, that's what I think...


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## bikeperson (Aug 23, 2007)

I believe you can do anything on a hardtail you can do on a full sus.


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## BWVDubya (Nov 19, 2007)

bikeperson said:


> I believe you can do anything on a hardtail you can do on a full sus.


I dont know if Id go that far but damn close thats for sure. I love HT's and use mine for a lil FR as well but am about to build a FS for DH.


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## nitzer (Apr 27, 2005)

This is what I use, Soul Cycles Sluggo, Rockshox Domain 318 110mm to 170mm or I can lock it out at 180mm

DH on HT is good fun, and a good way to see what kind of balls you have, thats the part I'm working on!


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## Flat tyres (Nov 6, 2006)

I'm just curious, why do people dig threads outta the depths of hell? May 05


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## latedropbob (Aug 6, 2007)

I love my DH hardtail!!! 05 Norco Manik... She tears up South Mountains gravity trials like it's a fully, 2-3 footers no problem. Solid bike! $499 eBay special direct from the North Shore. Still got Canadian air in the tires...I think thats good luck Love me some hardtail!


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## nitzer (Apr 27, 2005)

Don't know, kind of funny...


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

and DCs on hardtails?! this took me by surprise, It reminded me of pinkbike suddenly...


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## freerider33 (Nov 14, 2005)

Old,but good thread.
I bought a Banshee Scratch frame for my FR-DH-slalom bike.
I'll see how i like it.


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

I'm 90% complete on a SS DH/FR hardtail build, I just need THE MONEY!


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## nitzer (Apr 27, 2005)

suicidebomber said:


> I'm 90% complete on a SS DH/FR hardtail build, I just need THE MONEY!


BTY: I love your avitar, I just seen him on you tube! I kill you!

I'm about to go SS on my sluggo, I broke the Drail. Hanger last night at Rays MTB...:madman:


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## Nut! (Nov 2, 2007)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> Keystone


I second that.


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## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

Ride the hardtail for all of you downhill for a month, and then switch over to the FS. You will be rippin mach-stupid.


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## Jackf40 (Apr 24, 2007)

balfa minute man


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

nitzer said:


> BTY: I love your avitar, I just seen him on you tube! I kill you!
> 
> I'm about to go SS on my sluggo, I broke the Drail. Hanger last night at Rays MTB...:madman:


The Sluggo reminded me of the Evil Imperial, which is one of my dream hardtail frames.
How did the Sluggo feel?

I decided to experiment on SS, and trying different setups like using BMX cranks. If I decide to go FS, that will be a shifted one. my HT will be SS.


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## nitzer (Apr 27, 2005)

suicidebomber said:


> The Sluggo reminded me of the Evil Imperial, which is one of my dream hardtail frames.
> How did the Sluggo feel?
> 
> I decided to experiment on SS, and trying different setups like using BMX cranks. If I decide to go FS, that will be a shifted one. my HT will be SS.


It's nice, It's feels like a DH rig ( but it _is_ indeed and DH bike), the front end sits really high, I love it! It was only $250 from soul with out paint (raw) it is my favorite bike in my fleet, I picked it up for HT-DH and one day I took it to Ray's and It jumped better then my jump bike, so I was like phuck that, I sold my jump bike 2 days latter, If I had to own one bike She would be it! 
Sluggo = Sick ass wip!!!! :thumbsup: 
BUY ONE!!!!


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## nitzer (Apr 27, 2005)

dowst said:


> Ride the hardtail for all of you downhill for a month, and then switch over to the FS. You will be rippin mach-stupid.


I'll drink to that! :thumbsup: :cornut:


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## zahgurim (Aug 12, 2005)

I like to switch it up every so often...
Sometimes take out the dually, sometimes the hardtail. Keeps me honest!

Both just as capable of handling the same lines...


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

dowst said:


> Ride the hardtail for all of you downhill for a month, and then switch over to the FS. You will be rippin mach-stupid.


Amen. Hardtails provide steady progression. And they rock.

FS bikes can wait. Because I don't have the money.


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## gwillywish (Jul 1, 2005)

not a dh hardtail, but me ridin the local dh on my ht










and some old dh race pics


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## Dean- (Sep 29, 2007)

Mud _ Butt said:


> Freeride hardtails = good
> 
> DownHill Hardtails = not so good


Agreed. Tried it, fell to much and upgraded to Big Hit= don't ever look back!!


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## Bladespin (Apr 13, 2007)

Hi,
I have an old Azonic Ds1 and an even older set of Boxxers. Anyone think that would work as a not-tooo-serious DS HT?

Cheers,
Ade


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## Bladespin (Apr 13, 2007)

DH HT sorry


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## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

Bladespin said:


> Hi,
> I have an old Azonic Ds1 and an even older set of Boxxers. Anyone think that would work as a not-tooo-serious DS HT?
> 
> Cheers,
> Ade


No. It will handle like sh*t and your headtube will probably shear off.


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## theflinger (Mar 30, 2008)

it make you a better rider if you can ride a hardtail thru the rock gardens. You learn to choose your lines better and then when you are on a FS or hardtail you rock the socks off any FS rig you pass because they cannot read the trail and hit every boulder on the trail.


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## Rover Nick (Jul 13, 2006)

Flat tyres said:


> I'm just curious, why do people dig threads outta the depths of hell? May 05


What he said.:madman:


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## DraVen (Jan 9, 2006)

here is my DH HT i started DH on a HT and went through 2 "dh bikes" and now i am back to a HT
2005 GT Moto with Marzocchi Dirt Jumper 2 150mm


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## DWF (Jan 12, 2004)

My DH hardtail report.....


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## GiantGeoff (Jun 22, 2007)

I raced DH on a hardtail. I didn't hate it. But i didn't know any better....


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## dervishboy05 (Jun 28, 2007)

I don't understand what 180mm is actually needed for.

bumps or drops.

Drops, the front goes down 180mm and you feel like your going to go over the bars, not to mention your ankles would be dead.

Bumps, front tire rolls over and your rear comes crashing into it. 

i don't really understand.


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## maxibrobro (May 17, 2009)

*ballzz of steel*

if you want to have kids, go for a full suspension. 
if you have ballzz of steel. go for the hard tail


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## themarsvolta55 (Dec 23, 2004)

:madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman:


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## dhpete93 (May 22, 2008)

I ride my FR hardtail as a DH hardtail every now and then. I can't say I enjoy it as much as I could with a nice full suspension bike, but while my money is being saved up and I wait for Giant to release their 2010 bikes and frames, I'm staying a hardtail rider.

It does get ridden on real DH tracks, and fast. I did a private uplift at Moelfre (Athertons track, farmer jack was the driver) today. And that's one rutted up, loose track completely covered with rocks and demanding sections. It's definitely hard on a hardtail (excuse the pun), you get constant cramp in your hands and can't stay on the pedals so well, your line choice has to be perfect to keep speed and there's very little forgiveness if/when you do make a mistake. That being said I wasn't struggling to keep up with some of the guys on DH rigs.










The same spec was used as above mostly. Only an XTR M971 shadow medium cage derailleur was on instead of the XT and a Selle Italia SLR Carbonio flow saddle.


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## maxibrobro (May 17, 2009)

oh yeah


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

Ugh, old thread. Sometimes I wish they'd purge or archive this old BS.


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## skater73 (Apr 17, 2011)

Flat tyres said:


> I'm just curious, why do people dig threads outta the depths of hell? May 05


zombie


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## PhaseSpace168 (Sep 13, 2012)

I saw a guy go down Supreme DH at Angelfire on an old Redline MTB with no suspension.


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## PhaseSpace168 (Sep 13, 2012)

WTF old thread. lame


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