# Snakes curbing my exploration



## KJL (Mar 31, 2012)

I've got access to a huge amount of land, but its in northern california rattlesnake territory, and just recently they have come out of the wood work. Do i just put my tools down for the summer and ride and work elsewhere? Im looking into getting snake pants so i can start catching some, but should I just leave it be and focus somewhere I wont get mauled by a pack of bloodthirsty rattle snakes.

If i posted in the wrong area let me know, i figured my passion for making new trail and exploring new land is making this a hard decision.

-kellen

ill post picture of two babies ive killed in the last week, almost walked over both of them


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## Metalhack (Aug 13, 2011)

You killed the snakes? Is that a normal practice where your from? Just curious...


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## 2BeerJoe (Aug 31, 2007)

Quit being a Puss, leave the snakes alone, be aware of your surroundings!


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## BigRingGrinder (Jan 9, 2013)

Killing the snakes is rather pointless. 

Once in a blue moon you will find a pissed off aggressive rattler, but most of the time they are sunning and will slither off trail and leave you alone if you let them.

Their venom is a resource not to be wasted on something they cant kill and eat unless it is self defense. Cant count the number of times ive set my foot inches from a rattler who let me pass with nary a rattle or strike. Dont piss them off and they will leave you alone.


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## 2ridealot (Jun 15, 2004)

I don't kill snakes! I live in Florida and we have large diamondbacks in many biking areas and there are little to no problems each year. A 6 footer had to be killed a few years back who was acting aggressive near a kiosk...otherwise I say live and let live. If people are being bitten by these snakes, that would be a different issue.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

Leave them alone and they will leave you alone in return. It's that simple. It's those who mess with them who get bit. Give them respect and they will pass it on to you. If you happen upon one that is blocking your way, go around it. They would much rather get away from you than stand up as tall as you, sprout wings, and attack you with their blood sucking fangs out...


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## backcountryeti (May 21, 2004)

BigRingGrinder said:


> Killing the snakes is rather pointless.
> 
> Once in a blue moon you will find a pissed off aggressive rattler, but most of the time they are sunning and will slither off trail and leave you alone if you let them.
> 
> Their venom is a resource not to be wasted on something they cant kill and eat unless it is self defense. Cant count the number of times ive set my foot inches from a rattler who let me pass with nary a rattle or strike. Dont piss them off and they will leave you alone.


This. So much this.

HTFU


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## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

"Bloodthirsty Rattlesnakes" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Muppet!


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## Gundam168 (Dec 19, 2012)

I'd kill them if I were you. Alligators get culled because they multiply so quickly.

I'm not gonna take any chances.

Justin's Rattlesnake Pics


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## Krunk_Kracker (Dec 31, 2012)

Gundam168 said:


> I'd kill them if I were you. Alligators get culled because they multiply so quickly.
> 
> I'm not gonna take any chances.
> 
> Justin's Rattlesnake Pics


As horrible as that is...there is still no need to mindlessly kill them.

I'm in Florida and I run into snakes and alligators pretty regularly on the trails. The gators will either move, or they wont. They decide if your trail day is over or not, lol. The snakes will always move, given the time.


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## Burt4x4 (Feb 21, 2013)

I eat what I kill..I would eat a snake too. Make a chainstay protecter out of the snake skin LOL Or a headband on my helmet. Here in Cali there are thousands of Rattlers up in them hills. I guess I wouldn't just randomly kill one just cuse I spoted it...might huck a rock at it lol Get outa Here Raaaahhhhh
LOL
MOre Coffee


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Get over it.
There really is very little good reason to kill a snake.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

Gundam168 said:


> I'd kill them if I were you.


Nice example of respect for life in general...


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## wallstreet (Jul 27, 2012)

Gundam168 said:


> I'd kill them if I were you. Alligators get culled because they multiply so quickly.
> 
> I'm not gonna take any chances.
> 
> Justin's Rattlesnake Pics


Ouch, is Just a rider? Can he still grip his bike to ride & how did he get bitten?


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## backcountryeti (May 21, 2004)

BTW, @metalhack
Is that Neil from Clutch as your profile pic? If so well done, best band in the land.


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## Flyin_W (Jun 17, 2007)

KJL said:


> ...looking into getting snake pants so i can start catching some, but should I just leave it be and focus somewhere I wont get mauled by a pack of bloodthirsty rattle snakes...-kellen...


Might be alone here, but think that snake pants sound damn scary.
Stuffing a piissed-off rattler down one's pants is going to hurt, and there will be casualties.

If it were me, I'd rather spend the $$$ on snake charming lessons to convince them this new trail is all good.


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## Metalhack (Aug 13, 2011)

backcountryeti said:


> BTW, @metalhack
> Is that Neil from Clutch as your profile pic? If so well done, best band in the land.


Right on brother!


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## CarolinaLL6 (Apr 12, 2010)

Gundam168 said:


> I'd kill them if I were you. Alligators get culled because they multiply so quickly.
> 
> I'm not gonna take any chances.
> 
> Justin's Rattlesnake Pics


You have more chance of getting killed in a car accident than getting bit by a venomous snake. Try enjoying nature while riding.

Sent from my RobCo Pip-Boy 2000


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## KJL (Mar 31, 2012)

damn guys! This helps a lot. 

The usual policy with rattle snakes that are close to people I've observed is either 
1.) animal control 
2.) kill it and bury its' head. 
3.) if its far enough away we'll leave it be

The terrain is pretty steep, I'm working in tall grass growing over loose rock.
I'm not worried about one while trail riding, I'm worried about stumbling upon one or even a nest while im working. Going into their nest and telling them to gtfo so I can bench. *snake pants are overalls that snakes cant bite through.*

The two I've found so far have been hiding under big rocks in the "bench to be." I've heard babies cant control how much venom they release and that scared me.

As for Justin who was bit, thats awful and I'm sorry for that kid. 
I'm a fully grown adult at 6'2", and I'm about thirty to forty five minutes from a hospital, so my conditions hopefully won't be the same if I do get bitten :-/

not to mention mountain lions, anyone have tips for kitties?


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## 65mph12 (Jan 31, 2012)

wallstreet said:


> Ouch, is Just a rider? Can he still grip his bike to ride & how did he get bitten?


You can click a link on Justin's website to read the story. It's pretty wicked. No treatment for more than four hours due to remote location in Yosemite.


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## Zeroack (Jul 4, 2005)

I live and have ridden miles and miles of dirt in Nebraska. From pasture to dirt roads. I've seen more rattlesnakes then I care to talk about here. I kill them when I encounter them. I'm a father of four. I've been around rattlesnakes my whole life and have been very close to being bit several times. If I can save my children from a run in with a rattlesnake by taking it out of the ecosystem I will. I've shown them, I've told them what to do. However why take the risk? There are too many variables in a rattlesnake encounter that can have things ending up badly. That being said, we don't harm other snakes. Even other aggressive snakes. Such as a pissed off bull snake. We just leave them alone. On average I'll have any where between 3-20+ rattlesnake encounters a year. Just depends on how dry it is. If it's dry and your close to a remote water source. You'll see rattlesnakes, every time. Do we avoid these places? Yes. We don't go looking for trouble.

Should any of this info in any way stop you from riding? Hell no! Be aware, know what to do when you encounter one.


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## backcountryeti (May 21, 2004)

Zeroack said:


> I live and have ridden miles and miles of dirt in Nebraska. From pasture to dirt roads. I've seen more rattlesnakes then I care to talk about here. I kill them when I encounter them. I'm a father of four. I've been around rattlesnakes my whole life and have been very close to being bit several times. If I can save my children from a run in with a rattlesnake by taking it out of the ecosystem I will. I've shown them, I've told them what to do. However why take the risk? There are too many variables in a rattlesnake encounter that can have things ending up badly. That being said, we don't harm other snakes. Even other aggressive snakes. Such as a pissed off bull snake. We just leave them alone. On average I'll have any where between 3-20+ rattlesnake encounters a year. Just depends on how dry it is. If it's dry and your close to a remote water source. You'll see rattlesnakes, every time. Do we avoid these places? Yes. We don't go looking for trouble.
> 
> Should any of this info in any way stop you from riding? Hell no! Be aware, know what to do when you encounter one.


This is one reason why Timber Rattlesnakes are endangered in Ohio. Great way to teach respect for nature...


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Look into snake chaps or snake boots instead of stuff with more coverage. Snake protective gear is HOT and can restrict movement. I worked in snake country in the TX prairies and in the UT desert and didn't have any trouble. I saw venomous snakes regularly. When you see them, keep your distance and they will most likely move on after awhile. Just work in another area until then.

even cottonmouths have a terribly undeserved reputation. 

I was so stoked to see a 5ft timber rattler a few years ago. Never an aggressive move. It just made its way into cover while breathing heavy (the "hissing") to warn me not to get too close. I respected the snake and gave it space. I took some pictures and went on my way.

I would not even kill snakes if kids were present. For young kids, I would just not let them into situations where snakes are likely. As they age, they would learn to give snakes space and later learn to distinguish venomous ones from nonvenomous ones. Shoot, even dogs can be trained and learn to avoid snakes.


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## Zeroack (Jul 4, 2005)

backcountryeti said:


> This is one reason why Timber Rattlesnakes are endangered in Ohio. Great way to teach respect for nature...


There are no shortages of Rattlesnakes in Nebraska. I have no wish to put a species on the endangered list. If I have to choose between the safety of my family and a snake, I'll choose family every time.

BTW... love the Troll build up you have going. I'm loving my Revelate Design bags as well.


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## KJL (Mar 31, 2012)

Yo Natehawk!

If a ratler is in tall grass and i come up on it, will it give me a good amount of warning. im afraid of getting into one of these situations with no warning.


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## CarolinaLL6 (Apr 12, 2010)

Zeroack said:


> There are no shortages of Rattlesnakes in Nebraska. I have no wish to put a species on the endangered list. If I have to choose between the safety of my family and a snake, I'll choose family every time.
> 
> BTW... love the Troll build up you have going. I'm loving my Revelate Design bags as well.


All I hear is rationalizing...

They are part of natue"s balance. If there was no food supply there would be few snakes. Of course if you prefer the alternative, rodents. 

You are in their backyard and it's usually as simple as be aware and avoid.

Sent from my RobCo Pip-Boy 2000


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## musikron (Jan 16, 2013)

My penis is very small, so when I see those long and fat snakes I get incredibly jealous and have to chop them up so I don't feel inadequate.


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

Zeroack said:


> There are no shortages of Rattlesnakes in Nebraska. I have no wish to put a species on the endangered list. If I have to choose between the safety of my family and a snake, I'll choose family every time.
> 
> BTW... love the Troll build up you have going. I'm loving my Revelate Design bags as well.


Out of curiosity, which species are you killing?


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## backcountryeti (May 21, 2004)

Zeroack said:


> There are no shortages of Rattlesnakes in Nebraska. I have no wish to put a species on the endangered list. If I have to choose between the safety of my family and a snake, I'll choose family every time.
> 
> BTW... love the Troll build up you have going. I'm loving my Revelate Design bags as well.


I agree wholeheartedly with family first, but I feel there are other ways to deal with rattlesnakes than killing them.

I should also point out that I am not an animal hugging member of PETA, with unrealistic views of animals etc. I just feel that snakes get a bad rap in their natural habitat.

Thanks for the kind words on the Troll, it's been a blast so far!


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## Zeroack (Jul 4, 2005)

Prairie rattlesnake (Crotalus viridis)



BumpityBump said:


> Out of curiosity, which species are you killing?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

KJL said:


> Yo Natehawk!
> 
> If a ratler is in tall grass and i come up on it, will it give me a good amount of warning. im afraid of getting into one of these situations with no warning.


sometimes yes, sometimes no. many times you will walk right by one without ever knowing it. I never wore snake protection and never had a problem. I do tend to be hyper vigilant about where I step, however. I had friends and coworkers who preferred to wear snake boots and pay less attention to where they stepped. whatever floats your boat.

years ago I worked extensively in a habitat island for Eastern massassauga rattlesnakes in Ohio, and once around another population in Michigan, another endangered species. I wasn't working with the snakes, but I encountered them often. Usually half a dozen on a warm day, sunning themselves on the trail in the morning. not a single one ever struck at me. I had even heard stories of folks stepping on them and picking them up not realizing they were a venomous species, and the snakes never becoming agitated. IME, nonvenomous snakes tend to be more aggressive than most venomous ones. and when most venomous snakes act "aggressively", they are just bluffing to convince you to go away. especially North American species.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

I'm with you. I don't go looking for snakes but if I see one near the yard or in it I'll kill it. I have four goofy, lovable dogs and I'd rather not test whether the snake can control it's venom. My neighbors dog was killed last year by a copperhead. 

But on the trail? By the time I see them it's too late and there's no point stopping.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Zeroack said:


> There are no shortages of Rattlesnakes in Nebraska. I have no wish to put a species on the endangered list. If I have to choose between the safety of my family and a snake, I'll choose family every time.


About 10 people die each year (USA) from rattlesnake bites. At least half of those 10 deaths were the result of someone attempting to handle a rattlesnake.

So among every person in Nebraska who does _not_ attempt to handle a rattlesnake, at most only 1 will perish from a snake bite in a 10 year period. 1/10th of a person per year, and the number is probably a lot lower than that because most snake bites happen in the warmer southern states.

There is virtually nothing that anyone in your family does routinely every day that doesn't endanger them more than a potential snake bite, and dozens of things (including driving) that are hundreds, if not thousands of times more dangerous. Another thing much more dangerous than a potential snake bite is exposure to dangerous chemicals, and one less snake means one more dose of cancer causing chemicals to kill the gopher that the snake didn't get, which becomes imbedded into the soil that your children play in.

Anyone who kills snakes to "protect their family" should lock them all in a bomb shelter and never let them out, because something could fall out of the sky at any moment!


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Nevermind, I was beaten to the punch (line).


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## MK_ (Nov 15, 2004)

And here I was expecting you to say that they kept getting stuck in your spokes.

_MK


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

[email protected], you beat me to it while I was searching for that picture!


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## Krunk_Kracker (Dec 31, 2012)

kapusta said:


> Nevermind, I was beaten to the punch (line).





MK_ said:


> And here I was expecting you to say that they kept getting stuck in your spokes.
> 
> _MK
> View attachment 790018





kapusta said:


> [email protected], you beat me to it while I was searching for that picture!


Wow....context please?


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## KJL (Mar 31, 2012)

I take it as trying to underplay my situation. I'm walking in two to three feet of grass, my plan as of now is to get snake bite resistant overalls and trim all the grass down on both sides of the trail so I can see them. Hopefully then I can let them go without having to go Uma Thurman on their ass.

help on mountain lions too...


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## MK_ (Nov 15, 2004)

Context? Just riding along, to my understanding. 

In the tropics.


_MK


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## Zeroack (Jul 4, 2005)

J.B. Weld said:


> About 10 people die each year (USA) from rattlesnake bites. At least half of those 10 deaths were the result of someone attempting to handle a rattlesnake.
> 
> So among every person in Nebraska who does _not_ attempt to handle a rattlesnake, at most only 1 will perish from a snake bite in a 10 year period. 1/10th of a person per year, and the number is probably a lot lower than that because most snake bites happen in the warmer southern states.
> 
> ...


All I have to say is come raise a family on a farm in the Nebraska panhandle. I've been here all my life. I know what I've encountered in my 30+ years here. If I leave the rattlesnake in the yard and let it live it's life. Are the odds greater or lesser that my wife, children, pets, or livestock will encounter them? It's all about the numbers.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

KJL said:


> If i posted in the wrong area let me know, i figured my passion for making new trail and exploring new land is making this a hard decision.


After re-reading this I'm wondering what it has to do with mountain biking? If you're riding it's a non issue, if you are lucky enough to see one on the trail you can either go around or scooch it on it's way with a long stick, and if you're building trail you should be sufficiently competent in the woods to have sense enough to avoid them.

If you're worried about being "mauled by a pack of bloodthirsty rattlesnakes" you ought not be in the backcountry alone.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> About 10 people die each year (USA) from rattlesnake bites. At least half of those 10 deaths were the result of someone attempting to handle a rattlesnake.
> 
> So among every person in Nebraska who does _not_ attempt to handle a rattlesnake, at most only 1 will perish from a snake bite in a 10 year period. 1/10th of a person per year, and the number is probably a lot lower than that because most snake bites happen in the warmer southern states.
> 
> ...


It's true that there are only ten deaths or so per year but many more people get envenomated than die. In my ER alone in the last year I have seen about a dozen snake envenomations. Nobody died but a few of them had to go to the ICU and about half required Cro-Fab, a drug that costs about a fifty thousand dollars for a a typical patient.

So that statistic is somewhat misleading. Rattlesnake enevenomation is seldom fatal but does cause severe pain and morbidity which is worth avoiding.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Ailuropoda said:


> It's true that there are only ten deaths or so per year but many more people get envenomated than die. In my ER alone in the last year I have seen about a dozen snake envenomations. Nobody died but a few of them had to go to the ICU and about half required Cro-Fab, a drug that costs about a fifty thousand dollars for a a typical patient.
> 
> So that statistic is somewhat misleading. Rattlesnake enevenomation is seldom fatal but does cause severe pain and morbidity which is worth avoiding.


How many people come into your ER because of car wrecks, back yard injuries, bathroom falls, etc. compared to snake bites? Just trying to keep things in perspective.

I agree that rattlesnakes are best avoided and should generally be left alone, the exception is if one makes a home in my yard. I have kids too.


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## KJL (Mar 31, 2012)

im bound to encounter hundreds of rattle snakes in the process of making/exploring/riding this trail, im looking for the best advice on how to deal with them, because I've already stumbled upon a few while making bench, If i can't find a safe alternative to get past them I'm gonna have to put my tools down till winter, and I dont want to stop progress.


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## bleedinblue (Mar 23, 2013)

In my opinion, on the trail, I'll avoid critters if at all possible. What good is it killing a few snakes in the woods? You're not going to make a dent in the number of snakes in the area, you'll be plucking grey hairs. Unless I screw up and get in a position where it's me or the snake, I'll leave them alone except for throwing something at them to scare them off the trail.

On my property and around my house though, they're dead.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

KJL said:


> im bound to encounter hundreds of rattle snakes in the process of making/exploring/riding this trail, im looking for the best advice on how to deal with them, because I've already stumbled upon a few while making bench, If i can't find a safe alternative to get past them I'm gonna have to put my tools down till winter, and I dont want to stop progress.


Wear snake boots/pants, gloves, and keep long snake tongs with you. When you find one and it won't move away after some prodding, pick it up and move it away yourself.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Zeroack said:


> I live and have ridden miles and miles of dirt in Nebraska. From pasture to dirt roads. I've seen more rattlesnakes then I care to talk about here. I kill them when I encounter them. I'm a father of four. I've been around rattlesnakes my whole life and have been very close to being bit several times. If I can save my children from a run in with a rattlesnake by taking it out of the ecosystem I will. I've shown them, I've told them what to do. However why take the risk? There are too many variables in a rattlesnake encounter that can have things ending up badly. That being said, we don't harm other snakes. Even other aggressive snakes. Such as a pissed off bull snake. We just leave them alone. On average I'll have any where between 3-20+ rattlesnake encounters a year. Just depends on how dry it is. If it's dry and your close to a remote water source. You'll see rattlesnakes, every time. Do we avoid these places? Yes. We don't go looking for trouble.
> 
> Should any of this info in any way stop you from riding? Hell no! Be aware, know what to do when you encounter one.


Awesome, now your kids might be infected with the plague because snakes aren't controlling the populations of rodents...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Hawg said:


> Wear snake boots/pants, gloves, and keep long snake tongs with you. When you find one and it won't move away after some prodding, pick it up and move it away yourself.


+1 for snake tongs, I've snagged dozens with mine-









This one was gentle as a kitten after I picked it up to move it-


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## Zeroack (Jul 4, 2005)

Jayem said:


> Awesome, now your kids might be infected with the plague because snakes aren't controlling the populations of rodents...


No worries there. The mice rodent population is keep in check by the farm cat's that we've rescued from the local shelter.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

KJL said:


> im bound to encounter hundreds of rattle snakes in the process of making/exploring/riding this trail, im looking for the best advice on how to deal with them, because I've already stumbled upon a few while making bench, If i can't find a safe alternative to get past them I'm gonna have to put my tools down till winter, and I dont want to stop progress.


You can learn to be safe in that situation. Lots of woodsmen do it. I don't live in your area, so can't recommend anything other than learn from others and carry a stick. I am careful in North Carolina, but don't worry about snakes much. I did have a small fright when swimming in Wilson's Creek, because there were poisonous snakes swimming there too.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Zeroack said:


> No worries there. The mice rodent population is keep in check by the farm cat's that we've rescued from the local shelter.


Mice are not the carriers usually, but they may also carry disease.


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## grandsalmon (Oct 24, 2005)

Relocation. In my lifetime, I have moved over a dozen rattlers. I know they are there, everywhere, and will always be. All I can affect is the immediate situation and proximity, and not **** with the snake's overall population, environment, & balance therein.

(If you don't like the bag, then use a big can. Please.)


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

Consider the relative risk of dying from a snake bite. I am 2000 times more likely to die at the hands of a fellow American expressing his Second Amendment rights, about 3000 times more likely to die as a result of a drunk driver. If you live on a farm, your tractor is a couple of hundred times more likely to kill you than a rattlesnake is. 

I don't have a lot of time to worry about the things MOST likely to kill me, let alone the things least likely to.


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## Dr Sloth (Mar 6, 2005)

backcountryeti said:


> BTW, @metalhack
> Is that Neil from Clutch as your profile pic? If so well done, best band in the land.





Metalhack said:


> Right on brother!


"Bring back the U.S.S.R., we need that motivation" The Company Band


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## dirt farmer (Mar 28, 2005)

Snake killers = pantywaists


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Zeroack said:


> No worries there. The mice rodent population is keep in check by the farm cat's that we've rescued from the local shelter.


along with plenty of birds, lizards, and amphibians, too.


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## clarkrw3 (Feb 21, 2011)

I have lived in AZ most of my life and never felt the need to kill a snake or Gila Monster ever!!! (The two venomous things we happen across). I have seen as many as 8 rattlers on the trail in a single ride. They really will not bother you unless they feel threatened! It's been their home long before it was our place to ride. Also if you work in the heat of they day you will almost never happen on them. You find them most often in the spring right when it starts to warm up and in the morning catching the sun, otherwise they are hiding etc.

Please do not kill them!!!


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

Try a pair of Danner Jackal II snake boots. Extremely comfortable and not too bad in warm weather.


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

KJL said:


> I take it as trying to underplay my situation. I'm walking in two to three feet of grass, my plan as of now is to get snake bite resistant overalls and trim all the grass down on both sides of the trail so I can see them. Hopefully then I can let them go without having to go Uma Thurman on their ass.
> 
> help on mountain lions too...


Try Chainmail for the mountain lions


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Blurr said:


> Try Chainmail for the mountain lions


Sounds risky, I'd go with something more like this-


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## wallstreet (Jul 27, 2012)

65mph12 said:


> You can click a link on Justin's website to read the story. It's pretty wicked. No treatment for more than four hours due to remote location in Yosemite.


What a young chap wow!!! Amazing story just read it all wow! 80% strength is a good way forward and he seems quite positive, started rock climbing & has supportive parents. Amazing story! Thank goodness we don't have snakes in Switzerland that I know about as deadly as yours!!!


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## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> Sounds risky, I'd go with something more like this-
> 
> View attachment 790888


Oh yea that is bad ass, but I wonder if it is a Troy Hurtubrise Design? 
Project Grizzly - YouTube
Im sorry I cant watch that enough lol 
Troy Hurtubise: Project Grizzly - YouTube


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

KJL said:


> help on mountain lions too...


If you see one back off or go around it.


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

Repack Rider said:


> Consider the relative risk of dying from a snake bite. I am 2000 times more likely to die at the hands of a fellow American expressing his Second Amendment rights, about 3000 times more likely to die as a result of a drunk driver. If you live on a farm, your tractor is a couple of hundred times more likely to kill you than a rattlesnake is.
> 
> I don't have a lot of time to worry about the things MOST likely to kill me, let alone the things least likely to.


The 2nd amendment doesn't give you the right to murder someone, it gives you the right to possess and carry firearms (keep and bear). Just like the first amendment doesn't give you the right to commit crimes such as threatening elected officials and yelling fire in a theater.

I do agree with your post about the rattlesnakes though - I haven't encountered a rattler in real life but have encountered several copperheads as they are the most common venomous snake one would encounter in the KC area. I give them room and they eventually crawl off and go about their business and I am happy I had the chance to see them.


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## PhaseSpace168 (Sep 13, 2012)

if you see a rattler, just use your bike as a shield and walk past it. If youre gonna do work outside, then just bang a shovel on the ground in the area you are going to work. The shovel will rouse any snakes and get them rattling so you know where they are. 

Killing every snake you see is a bad idea. Kill one too many and the next thing you know, you're constantly falling into ground squirrel burrows.


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## schneidw (Mar 8, 2005)

Just curious, how does killing a rattlesnake you encounter on a trail miles from away from your house going to provide safety for your family?


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## mevadus (Oct 22, 2009)

KJL said:


> If i posted in the wrong area let me know, i figured my passion for making new trail and exploring new land is making this a hard decision.


If you are going to make new trails or ride in the woods, you should get used to seeing wildlife that lives around where you're building. Personally, I lived and rode in Florida for 6 years and have come across snakes, pigs, and alligators. Now I live in Alaska, and the biggest threat are the brown bears. I have only come across one so far, but have seen a lot of steaming poop and footprints that are slowly filling up with water. Being close to an 8' bear that weighs 900+ lbs and can walk faster than a human can run scares the living **** out of you. But, it is something that I have accepted due to the fact that I love, love mountain biking. I have bear spray, and most of them leave you alone unless you're fishing anyways.


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## KJL (Mar 31, 2012)

great responses, ive pulled out a grass edger and have been clearing a walking path down to dirt so i dont step on one. I've seen a couple snakes, minding their own business, but no rattlers, this helped a lot guys, thank you. 

I thought for some reason they were hella aggressive, now im excited to see a big one, I've been looking for them to be sunbathing. 

do any of you have any tips for when they're out and about the most

I'm starting a new trail network, and I want to put signs out advising people the best way to use the trail safely.

again, thanks so much guys, I look forward to the day that ya'll can ride it with me.


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## wallstreet (Jul 27, 2012)

mevadus said:


> If you are going to make new trails or ride in the woods, you should get used to seeing wildlife that lives around where you're building. Personally, I lived and rode in Florida for 6 years and have come across snakes, pigs, and alligators. Now I live in Alaska, and the biggest threat are the brown bears. I have only come across one so far, but have seen a lot of steaming poop and footprints that are slowly filling up with water. Being close to an 8' bear that weighs 900+ lbs and can walk faster than a human can run scares the living **** out of you. But, it is something that I have accepted due to the fact that I love, love mountain biking. I have bear spray, and most of them leave you alone unless you're fishing anyways.


What's bear spray?

What do you do encountering one, go the other way, slowly?

Lucky we have none but I am curious.

Thanks


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## Krunk_Kracker (Dec 31, 2012)

wallstreet said:


> What's bear spray?
> 
> What do you do encountering one, go the other way, slowly?
> 
> ...


Bear spray is basically some super wicked pepper spray. Not intended for use on humans.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

:nono

Bear spray is deodorant made from pulverized bears. It's what happens to zoo bears when they get old and die. PETA made a big stink about it a long time ago when they used wild young bears (more potent) so now it's rare and very expensive. 

The pheromones make you super irresistible to the ladies. Sorta like the axe commercials except it really works like that


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

wallstreet said:


> What's bear spray?


A placebo. I once emptied a can of bear spray nearly point blank into the faces of two dogs that were fighting and they seemed to take little notice.


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## Dr Sloth (Mar 6, 2005)

NateHawk said:


> The pheromones make you super irresistible to the ladies. Sorta like the axe commercials except it really works like that


How does it compare to


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## BigRingGrinder (Jan 9, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> A placebo. I once emptied a can of bear spray nearly point blank into the faces of two dogs that were fighting and they seemed to take little notice.


Well, duh! it was BEAR spray. That dont work on dogs.


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## CarolinaLL6 (Apr 12, 2010)

KJL said:


> great responses, ive pulled out a grass edger and have been clearing a walking path down to dirt so i dont step on one. I've seen a couple snakes, minding their own business, but no rattlers, this helped a lot guys, thank you.
> 
> I thought for some reason they were hella aggressive, now im excited to see a big one, I've been looking for them to be sunbathing.
> 
> ...


Temp and time of year thing.

Spring time and warm-ish you will find them in the morning and in the deeper parts of the woods during the day. Once it gets hot, early morning and evening. Add a water source and it improves the odds.

I have also caught a lot on night road hunts when and where it cools off at night since the asphalt holds the heat.

Snakes aren't the worry though. It's the deadly jump-for-your-crotch lizards that are most fatal.


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## dstepper (Feb 28, 2004)

If you want to keep rattlers out of the area around your property free range roosters and chickens work very well. If you live in a area with roadrunners encourage them to come into your yard by feeding them. Dogs can also be trained to alert you to their presence so you can remove them from your property. Once a property is developed and there this is activity the snakes will move on.


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## RandomGuyOnABike (Mar 5, 2013)

I would personally condone the killing of rattlers, if for no other reason that if we (humanity) started killing them (or any other bad-for-us animals in general).. evolution / mother nature will step in.. and that would be bad.

What would happen if they developed a chameleon effect like other members of the reptile family? And then started.. "covertly mating" with pythons or some of the other larger snakes?

Yea... giant chameleon rattler + python cross-breed = bad. So I say, let them live.


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

Repack Rider said:


> Consider the relative risk of dying from a snake bite. I am 2000 times more likely to die at the hands of a fellow American expressing his Second Amendment rights, about 3000 times more likely to die as a result of a drunk driver. If you live on a farm, your tractor is a couple of hundred times more likely to kill you than a rattlesnake is.
> 
> I don't have a lot of time to worry about the things MOST likely to kill me, let alone the things least likely to.


These statistics are silly since most people live in urban areas and don't spend much time outside. You come into contact with way more humans than venomous snakes. I have ridden over a couple venomous snakes and I don't like it


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

sxotty said:


> I have ridden over a couple venomous snakes and I don't like it


I bet those snakes liked it a $***load less than you did.


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

J.B. Weld said:


> I bet those snakes liked it a $***load less than you did.


Yeah I bet so, but then I don't spend my time laying sneakily on the trail  One of them I kinda bunny hopped and don't know if I actually touched with my wheel. Copper heads are hard to see though. Anyway I don't kill snakes, but if someone purposefully kills poisonous ones then I don't care much either. We have plenty of non-poisonous snakes to fill the same ecological niche.


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## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

sxotty said:


> Yeah I bet so, but then I don't spend my time laying sneakily on the trail  One of them I kinda bunny hopped and don't know if I actually touched with my wheel. Copper heads are hard to see though. Anyway I don't kill snakes, but if someone purposefully kills poisonous ones then I don't care much either. We have plenty of non-poisonous snakes to fill the same ecological niche.


Sounds like you would have fit right in in Nazi Germany/Cambodia/Rwanda/the Balkans - take yer pick! A little genocide never hurt anyone in the long run


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

Just wanted to make a point here about trail building (or working outside in general) and common sense awareness in areas with rattle snakes or other venomous snakes. 
Snake boots/chaps/pants are great when you are walking, but always, ALWAYS, be aware of where you are getting ready to put your hands when you reach for a rock, move a log, whatever, and make sure nobody's home. And do I even have to mention the craziness of trying to handle or mess with poisonous snakes? Yes, yes I do because people (usually guys) will do this. 

As others have pointed out, few people die from snakebites, but that does not mean that people aren't being bitten. My ex was on a river trip in the Grand Canyon with someone who was bitten by a rattlesnake; apparently it was a "dry strike" because the bite-ee was perfectly fine. However, I've personally known three people who were bitten by rattlesnakes and survived, and in two of those instances the tissue damage was pretty ghastly. One guy totally lost the use of his hand; another spent a week in intensive care. As pointed out by the ER doc in an earlier post, envenomation is to be avoided! 

We've had three copperhead bites over the years in the immediate and extended family; lots of swelling and bruising at the injection site, but nothing life threatening and no complications.


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

June Bug said:


> We've had three copperhead bites over the years in the immediate and extended family; lots of swelling and bruising at the injection site, but nothing life threatening and no complications.


My dog got bit on the nose by a copper head... man that thing swelled up so big, but she was fine.


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## ChasingChubby (Dec 21, 2015)

Found this fatty whilst on a ride at Santa Rosa Plataue, Fairly early in the morning, he never even moved. Just left him alone, and I am petrified of these guys BTW!


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

Will Stan's seal up snakebite flats caused by an actual snake?

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

I have never been to northern California to ride but wondering are they that thick where you cannot ride or do trail work without getting bit? Is it the Temple of Doom in Indiana Jones? We have tons of snakes in Missouri - most of them are harmless but I have ridden next to some copperheads and never had an issue with them. 

I would agree with most of the above posters that just show them proper respect and you probably won't have to worry about getting a rattler chomp.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

I have yet to be bit wearing these snake pants. A few of the fellas give me a hard time but I don't care.

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## Jatrma (May 8, 2016)

Back in the summer I found this little beauty blocking the trail. It was an intense standoff for about 2 minutes. Well... Not so much intense, but fascinating. I hate the damn things but are fascinated by them. 
I waited for him to leave and I continued on my way.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

It's amazing to me, how many mtbrs are so petrified of rattlesnakes. If you ride in rattlesnake habitat just be aware of your surrounding at all times. If you encounter one enjoy the narural nature experience and ride around him. Give him a 7' or more barrier and be on your way. He will do the same thing once you pass. We are lucky in the USA to have a venomous snake that gives out a loud rattle warning sound to let you know you are close by and to steer clear. What else can you ask for? Just avoid them and move along.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> It's amazing to me, how many mtbrs are so petrified of rattlesnakes. If you ride in rattlesnake habitat just be aware of your surrounding at all times. If you encounter one enjoy the narural nature experience and ride around him. Give him a 7' or more barrier and be on your way. He will do the same thing once you pass. We are lucky in the USA to have a venomous snake that gives out a loud rattle warning sound to let you know you are close by and to steer clear. What else can you ask for? Just avoid them and move along.


Most mountain bikers are city dwelling pansies. They're a timid bunch.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

And "snake farm" just sounds nasty.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

KJL said:


> help on mountain lions too...


The snakes and cats are far more afraid of you than you are of them. You're the apex species. You own the planet. They are just little people. You need to lord it over them.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

mbmb65 said:


> Most mountain bikers are city dwelling pansies. They're a timid bunch.


My x girlfriend is as pretty and as feminine as a Playboy model. She lives in rattlesnake country on the outskirts of the desert in San Diego. One of her favorite hobbies is going out at night and catching the various species of snakes that hang out on the still hot from the day asphalt. We'd see one and she'd be out of the vehicle before I stopped trying to catch it, and she would catch many. Even the rattlesnakes she loved to get up close and observe them. It's hard for me to comprehend a feminine girl with this excited attitude towards snakes compared to the large percentage of macho mountain biker dudes screaming in fear at the very sight of one.


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## bakerjw (Oct 8, 2014)

2.) kill it and bury its' head?
Seriously?


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

Jatrma said:


> Back in the summer I found this little beauty blocking the trail. It was an intense standoff for about 2 minutes. Well... Not so much intense, but fascinating. I hate the damn things but are fascinated by them.
> I waited for him to leave and I continued on my way.
> View attachment 1121888


Pretty typical from late March to early October out here in So. Cal.


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

mtnbikej said:


> Pretty typical from late March to early October out here in So. Cal.


Pretty typical from late October to early March here in Connecticut.
(I've never seen a poisonous snake)


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

mbmb65 said:


> And "snake farm" just sounds nasty.


Pretty much is...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

misterbill said:


> Pretty typical from late October to early March here in Connecticut.
> (I've never seen a poisonous snake)
> View attachment 1122046


Because there's no such thing as a poisonous snake. There are venomous snakes but you'd be hard pressed to find a poisonous snake anywhere.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

bingemtbr said:


> Pretty much is...


It's a reptile house.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Because there's no such thing as a poisonous snake. There are venomous snakes but you'd be hard pressed to find a poisonous snake anywhere.


Right, next thing you'll be telling us is that there is no such thing as venomous mushrooms.


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## Fairbanks007 (Sep 5, 2009)

misterbill said:


> Pretty typical from late October to early March here in Connecticut.
> (I've never seen a poisonous snake)
> View attachment 1122046


I lived in central CT for 6 years. Loved it, loved the riding, miss it every single f'ing day. Enjoy some of the best riding in the country.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Fairbanks007 said:


> I lived in central CT for 6 years. Loved it, loved the riding, miss it every single f'ing day. Enjoy some of the best riding in the country.


"Best riding in the country"

You've gotta get out more.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> "Best riding in the country"
> 
> You've gotta get out more.


Yeah.
Just watch out for them poison snakes.


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

In the pacific northwest, there's a small, harmless snake (the garter snake) with a wide ranging diet. One particular population preys mostly upon newts, the catch being that these newts contain tetrodotoxin (apparently aquired from bacteria; the same chemical is the toxin in pufferfish). As a result of their prey's super-potent nerve toxin, the snakes have evolutionarily modified the sodium channels in their nerves to be less responsive to that toxin (which has had secondary effects of decreasing nerve performance). Of course, this set up an evolutionary arms race, with more toxic newts evolving, which lead to more resistant snakes, which lead to more toxic newts, etc.

However, tetrodoxin takes a while to break down. It disappears fairly fast from most of the snake's tissues, except for their livers, which it accumulates in large quantities for long periods of time. This has the potential effect of making these snakes toxic to many of their native predators, especially birds. Other species do this too (dart frogs actually get their poison from ants and beetles), so it's technically truly a poisonous snake.

So yeah, there you have it, a poisonous snake.

Poisonous (not venomous) snakes - Biology - Science Forums


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

misterbill said:


> Pretty typical from late October to early March here in Connecticut.
> (I've never seen a poisonous snake)
> View attachment 1122046





DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Because there's no such thing as a poisonous snake. There are venomous snakes but you'd be hard pressed to find a poisonous snake anywhere.





misterbill said:


> In the pacific northwest, there's a small, harmless snake (the garter snake) with a wide ranging diet. One particular population preys mostly upon newts, the catch being that these newts contain tetrodotoxin (apparently aquired from bacteria; the same chemical is the toxin in pufferfish). As a result of their prey's super-potent nerve toxin, the snakes have evolutionarily modified the sodium channels in their nerves to be less responsive to that toxin (which has had secondary effects of decreasing nerve performance). Of course, this set up an evolutionary arms race, with more toxic newts evolving, which lead to more resistant snakes, which lead to more toxic newts, etc.
> 
> However, tetrodoxin takes a while to break down. It disappears fairly fast from most of the snake's tissues, except for their livers, which it accumulates in large quantities for long periods of time. This has the potential effect of making these snakes toxic to many of their native predators, especially birds. Other species do this too (dart frogs actually get their poison from ants and beetles), so it's technically truly a poisonous snake.
> 
> ...


So you have seen a poisonous snake.

Good investigative work though.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Huh...did not know the garter snake one. Very interesting!

I like the old wives tale of the hunters that unknowingly scooped up some some rough skinned newts in their coffee pot. Did not fare well them. I see lots of garter's and newts at some of my riding spots.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

Go ride...

In TX they can "pop up" anywhere like: Jack-in-the-bucket style (GULP).


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> So you have seen a poisonous snake.
> 
> Good investigative work though.


Apparently I have. Although I had no idea that garter's were poisonous until MrBill posted that.

Very interesting stuff.


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## MrkT (Jan 12, 2016)

I hiked coast to coast a couple years ago and ran into rattlers, black widows, mountain lions, herds of javelinas... In each encounter, my initial reaction was fear, then reason (you are not prey, you're basically the top of the food chain), and finally awe. No need to kill anything. You've just been given a pretty awesome gift.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Pigs are keeping me from one of my local favorite trails o_0

2nd to last time on this trail, there was a heap of pig sign.

Thought of it as a once off & next time out, the trail would be back to normal.

No such luck >.< all new pig sign & I could have sworn for a good 5-10 metres on the descent a pig was running along side me!!

Both rides were a couple weeks apart. So, I'm guessing the pig(s) have set up shop, for a while.

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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

targnik said:


> Pigs are keeping me from one of my local favorite trails o_0
> 
> 2nd to last time on this trail, there was a heap of pig sign.
> 
> ...


Don't let them hog the trail.


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## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

Gundam168 said:


> I'd kill them if I were you. Alligators get culled because they multiply so quickly.
> 
> I'm not gonna take any chances.
> 
> Justin's Rattlesnake Pics


If you do t want to take chances then don't ride in areas where you know encounters with snakes are likely. Killing them because you want to ride your bike in their habitat is a twatt move.

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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

targnik said:


> Pigs are keeping me from one of my local favorite trails o_0


Don't pigs kill snakes? If snakes are curbing your exploration then it's probably a good idea to release a bunch of pigs where you ride.


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## mr4fox (Nov 1, 2015)

Don't gators kill pigs? Lol!!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

J.B. Weld said:


> Don't pigs kill snakes? If snakes are curbing your exploration then it's probably a good idea to release a bunch of pigs where you ride.


I think you'd be better off releasing a bunch of Roadrunners and hawks. I've never heard of pigs killing snakes.

OP, this video should cure your snake phobia.

Is would suck to be a baby iguana on this island.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I think you'd be better off releasing a bunch of Roadrunners and hawks. I've never heard of pigs killing snakes.


It's a fact that pigs kill snakes, mostly our of spite due to their ornery nature. I grew up in Iowa and a lot of farmers would keep a pig or 2 in the house during corn snake season so they could sleep without fear. If you see a woods full of pigs you won't see any snakes.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

J.B. Weld said:


> It's a fact that pigs kill snakes, mostly our of spite due to their ornery nature. I grew up in Iowa and a lot of farmers would keep a pig or 2 in the house during corn snake season so they could sleep without fear. If you see a woods full of pigs you won't see any snakes.


So that's what happened to all the corn snakes.  I loved catching them as a kid. So many color variations. Didn't know that about pigs and snakes, thanks for the tidbit.


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## 13gunhey498 (Mar 30, 2017)

If they're not a threat at that moment, no need to kill!


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

13gunhey498 said:


> If they're not a threat at that moment, no need to kill!


Tell that to the pigs!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

13gunhey498 said:


> If they're not a threat at that moment, no need to kill!





chazpat said:


> Tell that to the pigs!


Or the baby iguanas.

On second though don't ever kill them no matter what.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

MrkT said:


> I hiked coast to coast a couple years ago and ran into rattlers, black widows, mountain lions, herds of javelinas... In each encounter, my initial reaction was fear, then reason (you are not prey, you're basically the top of the food chain), and finally awe. No need to kill anything. You've just been given a pretty awesome gift.


 Ummm, mt lions ARE the top of the food chain. YRMV.


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

Unfortunately mountain lions are not the top of the food chain. Humans will eradicate them at the first sign that they become a "nuisance." I'd say their results may vary.


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