# The Vintage MTB Workshop



## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

It's hard to believe, but many of us here have been involved with vintage mountain bikes for well over a decade. In some cases, what was once the novelty of owning a dream bike from ones youth turns into much more. That one bike becomes a few more, and then expands into more interesting bikes and those that might even go back to before ones first involvement with the sport. At some point, maybe it can be said that a bike or two represent "a piece of mountain bike history." Except that phrase is over-used. The bikes can introduce you to new friends and interesting people, including some of your childhood idols, and can take you interesting places. Who knew.

I've consistently shared on this forum what I've done acquiring, restoring, and riding the bikes I own, or should I say the bikes that own me. But forums change, picture sites change, memberships change, and things get lost on the ever-expanding web. However, I still feel that it is important to share with the community what has already been done. Resources such as MOMBAT are so valuable for those that want to participate in this community. At this point, I personally can only do so much with the bikes that I own, so a website to share them with others seems purposeful.

Many of the bikes will be familiar to regulars of this forum, and some are very recent additions. If I had waited until every one of my bikes had been fully-restored, a website never would have happened. So, there are a dozen bikes listed on the Welcome page that have yet to be completed, assuming that no new projects are added. And there are a few road bikes sprinkled in for good measure. The website is called a Workshop because the desire in the future is to do less of the restorations and more original fabrication of parts and frames.

Enjoy!

*Vintage MTB Workshop*


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

... Assuming that no new projects are added..


I called that one


Nice site


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

Wow DC....the site is as tight and stunning as your builds....fantastic effort...thank you for sharing.



Steve


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Very nicely done.


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## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

So much goodness in one site. Well done site and thanks for sharing your collection.


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

Well done, DC. Nicely organized with your usual meticulous attention to detail. Thanks!


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## alasa (Jan 28, 2004)

More compliments for you web site and your bike!!

I want your post!!


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

Yowza!

And there goes any productivity over the next few weeks. 

Grumps


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Nice work! Beautiful pics, layout, and of course, bikes and bits. 

Thanks for the tour of your "shop"!

Minor question though, Star headsets, would you really consider them "rare"? I ask, since I can order one, any time. Not being nitpicky, more curious, didn't know if you knew, they are routinely available through Euro Asia Imports.

I have a few, and love them, and though set up is a smidge tedious, performance and durability are top notch!


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## blilrat (Oct 27, 2011)

Fantastic site and amazing collection! How about a shot or two of the actual workshop?


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## ameybrook (Sep 9, 2006)

echoing everyone else... fantastic bikes, photos, words and overall presentation


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Thank you all for the compliments.

Mendon, you are correct that the Star headset is still available from EAI, as are a number of esoteric products. From what I can tell, EAI has all of the remaining inventory and little further information is available about them. The only other one I've seen in person was over 10 years ago, making it more rare than a Ti King, for example.


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## DFA (Jan 26, 2004)




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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Just a quick update on information for the two Salsa bikes in the collection,

The paint on the 1983 Salsa is named "candy-flage," and was inspired by a quilt that hung in a group household in Santa Cruz, CA, known as "Hut Otis", where Ross lived on occasion."

The slogan "If it Ain't Moto, It's Worthless" was written on the kitchen wall of this home.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

hahaha DFA. Very nice, DC! Glad you put together something like that and ironed your sheet. I see your Breezer in there.... 

It must have taken a lot of work and your efforts are surely rewarded with knowing there are a hundreds of drooling vintage fans looking at it.

Congrats and thanks for all that you do for the vintage community. Miss ya!


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Great stuff. Very well done! I look forward to picking up a few of your mods if they ever become available to the public. I really like the write ups that come with each bike. I can't deny sometimes when I am alone in the garage admiring my bikes, I have little write ups about their provenance going through my head.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

DoubleCentury said:


> The only other one I've seen in person was over 10 years ago, making it more rare than a Ti King, for example.


Gotcha. I was under the impression they were still being made, sounds like not.

Pretty bomber though, sounds like I should be ordering a few more before they go away for good.

Funny, seen several of them, but only one CK ti, I guess rarity is in the eye of the beholder!

DFA, that's too funny, my wife even chuckled, which is hard to make her do, LOL!


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

.. excellent photography. Not overly glamorous but neutral good quality... The same light/ same background approach makes for a clear understanding of the collection. Very german.. in a good way.
Excellent website and stunning collection.
It's clear what you favour and like: norcal builders.. even Bontrager has a spot.

Well done.


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

wow


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## ssulljm (Sep 3, 2006)

Damn impressive, glad there are bike guys like you to make up for bike guys like me(this is a sincere compliment)


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Sully I loved that picture of yours with all the red bikes on the deck!


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## unicrown junkie (Nov 12, 2009)

Wonderfully amazing collection! I sure wish I could wrangle that fork off your TrialsComp though, mine took a hit from a forklift six years back. Finding 24" wheel forks w/u-brake mounts ain't easy.

Then there's that '92 McMahon, oh my God....


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Echo everyone here.

One nit to pick if I may. Even though I believe they're all too small, (thank god), there are no sizes stated for any of the bikes or frames for sale.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Great website for an awesome collection.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

jeff said:


> there are no sizes stated for any of the bikes or frames for sale.


....or prices. Everything fits someone in the 5'10" range.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

6' 1" here. Thanks DC. 


DoubleCentury said:


> ....or prices. Everything fits someone in the 5'10" range.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

jeff said:


> there are no sizes stated for any of the bikes or frames for sale.


Sizing information is now given. Thanks for pointing this out.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Incredible work TD. We're all lucky you've taken the time to create such a resource!


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

It feels odd for me to say this but that Salsa SS is my favorite at the moment.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

jeff said:


> It feels odd for me to say this but that Salsa SS is my favorite at the moment.


I finished building that bike last week, and it has a cool little history. Can't wait for spring!


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## ameybrook (Sep 9, 2006)

Bring it this weekend and get a couple laps in at CX Nationals


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Waxing my skis for that now!


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

The only problem is your website will be my procrastination #1 reason.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

jeff said:


> It feels odd for me to say this but that Salsa SS is my favorite at the moment.


Mine is the Cunningham Racer 8c. It's THE mountain bike.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Great work DC. Nice presentation. Nice details.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Kinda makes me want to take my 90' to a builder and convert it permanently.


DoubleCentury said:


> I finished building that bike last week, and it has a cool little history. Can't wait for spring!


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

It even has broken Kooka Cranks.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Fantastic site DC! I love the projects page and the 1998 Project Bike. Some beautiful machine work.


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

colker1 said:


> It even has broken Kooka Cranks.


*Everyone* had broken Kooka cranks.



Grumps


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

colker1 said:


> It even has broken Kooka Cranks.


I found that hilarious.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Besides the obvious failure, I found 6 more cracks in that pair of cranks, so it was a race to see who would fail first.


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)

Like going through the pages of your favorite tool catalogue, reading the description and saying "yeah, I need that!"

Fantastic in all respects


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

colker1 said:


> Mine is the Cunningham Racer 8c. It's THE mountain bike.


Thats my first choice too. And its worse because I got a chance to ride it around....flawless. The Potts Custom is up there too.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

ssulljm said:


> Damn impressive, glad there are bike guys like you to make up for bike guys like me(this is a sincere compliment)


haha! That's the way I feel as well, Sully! I have no German blood! 

Nice work as usual, DC.


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## joeadnan (Oct 21, 2003)

What an excellent site, and I am glad that your bikes are being documented properly. I particularly like the fact that the opening photos are of the bikes in their "natural" surroundings.

It would be interesting to have the weights of each bike listed... though that is just the weight weenie in me talking.


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## Flying_V (Feb 18, 2005)

What incredibly amount of work behind a site like that!
My wishes are that the material on the site continue to grow... my dream is take a ride in places like these! Thanks for sharing your beauties. I'm impatient to see tha mantis Flying V and XCR...


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

There's nothing natural about Boulder. 


joeadnan said:


> What an excellent site, and I am glad that your bikes are being documented properly. I particularly like the fact that the opening photos are of the bikes in their "natural" surroundings.
> 
> It would be interesting to have the weights of each bike listed... though that is just the weight weenie in me talking.


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## classen (Oct 7, 2009)

Wow DC!
That is a very nice website you've put together (not to mention the impressive array of vintage bikes). I've always found your home made parts very inspirational. Until now I don't think I would have thought to make my own truing stand… but now you've got me thinking. My unasked for suggestion/request would be to have more details about your various parts projects. For example what aluminum stock did you use for the seat posts? How did you achieve the taper under the seat clamp? As it stands your website seems more a museum than a workshop. Don't take that as an insult. It's really great what you've done. I always find it a bit annoying when browsing through old threads and the pictures have disappeared because someones Picassa account has gone offline, etc. etc. So having all your stuff in a more "permanent" location is super cool.

In my opinion you could make it more "workshop" by having some how-to or progress type pictures and info. I don't know if you've ever seen this guy on Youtube who goes by the name mrpete222 ( aka tubalcaine), but he is a retired shop teacher and has put out a hundred or so really good videos on various aspects of machining and fabricating. I really like his videos and he clearly puts some time and effort into producing them. I'm not suggesting you go to that extreme, but I'd love to see some more details on how you made some of your bits n peices. My shop teacher always says: "you've got to plan your work - so you can work your plan". I'd love to hear how you plan your work and work your plan.
Thanks for the great new interwebs resource.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

classen said:


> In my opinion you could make it more "workshop" by having some how-to or progress type pictures and info.


Thank you for your comments, and I agree with your observation. At this time, it is a gallery of finished bikes and projects. My hope had been to have a blog associated with the website which would follow the development of each new project. The problem is that I'm not accustom to taking photos as I work. I really don't need another distraction that might cause me to make a mistake, and most often I get so caught up in what I am doing that I don't step back for a look until I'm completely finished. As for providing more details for constructeurs like yourself, I'll see what I can do. I will admit that some of my methods are extremely time consuming, to the degree that it is embarrassing to elaborate. As mentioned in the introduction here, the reference to "workshop" points toward what I would like to be doing more in the future than what I have done in the past.


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## LeicaLad (Jun 5, 2010)

What a wonderful site and truly amazing collection.

The two early Ritcheys are, to me, quite special. I am curious about the size of the road bike. It appears to be about 23", yes? It seems to have fairly tight angles, too.

I am curious as I have just acquired a Ritchey road bike built about 3 months later than this one, but with distinctly looser angles.

Do you have any comments about the ride characteristics of your road bike?

Thanks, again, for the fantastically presented collection.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

LeicaLad said:


> It appears to be about 23", yes? It seems to have fairly tight angles, too.
> I am curious as I have just acquired a Ritchey road bike built about 3 months later than this one, but with distinctly looser angles.
> Do you have any comments about the ride characteristics of your road bike?


The 1980 Ritchey is a recent addition as well, so it will be a sunny spring day before I can tell you how it rides. It's 55 x 55 and definitely not a touring bike!


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## Howley (Nov 23, 2005)

So for a 1" threadless headset this is the only option? I am assuming the forthcoming Koski fork will need this star headset?


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Lots of 1" theadless options out there in the used or slightly used market. Does the Koski fork need ultra low stack height?


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

I was gonna say, King, Cane Creek, FSA, several folks still make 1" threadless. 

The Stars are really nice, and yes, super low stack. Beyond that, priced about the same as a King, and as nice.


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## Foxrider979 (Dec 2, 2012)

great site! very inspiring. ive got quite a few my self. maybe its about time i post some.


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## Naugas (Jun 27, 2006)

I just stumbled across this site, in search for pictures of Cunningham's lever link brakes. (I guess it's your own version of the links that are on the site? Great work if so, they're even cleaner than the one's from Cunningham and Potts I've seen. Although probably the lack of an open fork end on the link attributes to it being neat and clean - on the pics I've seen the open fork end is usually just tied down and secured with a string of wire of some kind.)

Very nice bikes, pictures and info, great job! Many thanks for sharing it in this way.

I especially enjoyed all the info on the bikes and bits of Charlie Cunningham, they were a real eye opener when I started to learn about them not so many years ago. Thanks again!


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Glad you enjoyed the site.

One of the challenges with the Lever Link brakes is that the loose end can become accidentally dislodged. Solutions to this have been wrapping the joint with safety wire and making a little latching mechanism that gets pretty intricate. My version has everything bolted in place and a turnbuckle to adjust the lever.

Hopefully you also so that Cunningham Bicycle Archive on the site.

Vintage Charlie Cunningham Bicycle Photos - Vintage Mountain Bike Workshop


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## shamobius (Jul 26, 2014)

I'd missed that Cunningham archive, what a great gallery, thanks!


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

DoubleCentury said:


> Glad you enjoyed the site.
> 
> One of the challenges with the Lever Link brakes is that the loose end can become accidentally dislodged. Solutions to this have been wrapping the joint with safety wire and making a little latching mechanism that gets pretty intricate. My version has everything bolted in place and a turnbuckle to adjust the lever.
> 
> ...


on a related note, have you been able to get the lever link to feel/work as good as the toggle cam? I recently took my Phoenix out and the toggle cam on the rear is substantially better than the Lever Link up front... Open to any ideas on how to improve it, but it doesn't really have any way to adjust leverage other than tightening or opening the angle of the link from what I can tell.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Better in what way? The lever link can be dialed in for power with a huge mechanical advantage or set up hard (ie not squishy) with lots of pad clearance for muddy conditions.

If you look at the toggle plates that Charlie uses on his own bikes, they look more like a hook. The standard WTB plate doesn't quite give the cam effect.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

DoubleCentury said:


> Better in what way? The lever link can be dialed in for power with a huge mechanical advantage or set up hard (ie not squishy) with lots of pad clearance for muddy conditions.


Right, but just through changing the angle of the linkage right? I have mine as small an angle as possible without coming too close to bottoming it out on itself.

Better because it's smoother with less drag in the mechanism as a whole and substantially more powerful.

Regarding cam shapes, yes, I have altered them making them steeper for more leverage, etc. When you say "cam effect" you must mean the changing/varying rate of leverage?


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

I think the lever link can be made more powerful given that it is just pivots and not rolling surfaces, and of course when it approaches bottoming out, the leverage goes sky high (and gets more squishy). At some point a toggle cam feels like it is trying to be pulled through the roller, like it is jammed (wedged) in there. And yes, altering them for more leverage. I've only given mine LL a parking lot test with fresh pads and rims so you have more real-world experience with them. It would be interesting to see if the linkage geometry has changed.

I've had the good fortune to try out a couple of these, and good grief are they powerful.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

DoubleCentury said:


> I think the lever link can be made more powerful given that it is just pivots and not rolling surfaces, and of course when it approaches bottoming out, the leverage goes sky high (and gets more squishy). At some point a toggle cam feels like it is trying to be pulled through the roller, like it is jammed (wedged) in there. And yes, altering them for more leverage. I've only given mine LL a parking lot test with fresh pads and rims so you have more real-world experience with them. It would be interesting to see if the linkage geometry has changed.
> 
> I've had the good fortune to try out a couple of these, and good grief are they powerful.


Time to take off the lab coat and rubber gloves, DC and get those things dirty.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Time to take off the lab coat and rubber gloves, DC and get those things dirty.


I totally agree!


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## Naugas (Jun 27, 2006)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Right, but just through changing the angle of the linkage right? I have mine as small an angle as possible without coming too close to bottoming it out on itself.
> 
> Better because it's smoother with less drag in the mechanism as a whole and substantially more powerful.


I'm very surprised to hear that. Your adjustment should be spot on for braking power. Is it the same kind of pads front and rear, and same thickness? That can have a huge impact on effectiveness and brake "feel". Other than that it's extremely hard to be objective of a brakes function in rear and front comparisons. The front handles so much more force than the rear, and a brake setup that feels great and powerful in the rear can prove to be weak if it goes to the front. Anyway, I'd start with checking anything that can cause drag and resistance in between your fingers and the rim - anything that moves - especially the brake cable and the cantilever studs, but also the rest of the linkage if the joints are rough or have too much play so lock can lock up. I would say that technically the lever link system is more robust and with less chances for faults that can cause drag, than a cam design. And easier to set up.



Fillet-brazed said:


> Regarding cam shapes, yes, I have altered them making them steeper for more leverage, etc. When you say "cam effect" you must mean the changing/varying rate of leverage?


That's one thing that I've always been curious to try out - fine tuning the cam so there's a little step that allows the pads to open up from the rim when the handle is released, but jumps in close for the first couple of millimeters of cable pull. The margins and tolerances for such a setup would be rather small though, but with a tweaked toggle cam brake it should be possible to make a safe and working setup.


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