# What's a fella gotta do to keep chainring bolts tight?



## yeahdog31 (Jul 13, 2009)

Never had trouble with chainring bolts in the past, until maybe this year. Ever since I've switched to riding SS, my chainring bolts keep loosening themselves -- and in several cases -- falling out on the trail. 
I am using blue Loctite and good quality bolts torqued down nicely. Last night, on a group ride, I dropped my chain. When I looked at my crank, I had lost 3 of the 4 bolts! These were Shimano XT bolts that I had JUST installed a few days prior. 

Does anyone have any suggestions? I feel silly, but what am I missing here?


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## Saddle Up (Jan 30, 2008)

The female part of your chainring bolts are slightly too long so the bolt bottoms out before they bite on the ring and crank spider.

They make chainring bolts specific to SS.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

You could do something like this to keep them from falling out:


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## yeahdog31 (Jul 13, 2009)

Saddle Up said:


> The female part of your chainring bolts are slightly too long so the bolt bottoms out before they bite on the ring and crank spider.


This is possible, although unlikely. I am using an XT crank with a Blackspire Mono Veloce ring and BBG bashguard. Like I said, I used this exact same crank and everything for a few seasons with no trouble -- until I switched the bike to SS. I understand that there is more torque on the cranks now, but I am surprised at how quickly I'm losing these bolts!


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## kustomz (Jan 6, 2004)

I remember back in the day, I had a '99 Jamis Komodo with a Shimano drivetrain and it had thin brass washers under the bolt heads. I transferred that drivetrain to several bikes over the years and never had problems with loosening. Eventually those washers wore out after much swapping around and then I started experiencing loosening. All that to say, if you can find an LBS that is old school, you may be able to find those thin washers.


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## yeahdog31 (Jul 13, 2009)

kustomz said:


> I remember back in the day, I had a '99 Jamis Komodo with a Shimano drivetrain and it had thin brass washers under the bolt heads.


Something like this?
Wheels Alloy Middle Ring Spacer Bag/20 > Components > Drivetrain > Chainring Bolts | Jenson USA


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## kustomz (Jan 6, 2004)

yeahdog31 said:


> Something like this?
> Wheels Alloy Middle Ring Spacer Bag/20 > Components > Drivetrain > Chainring Bolts | Jenson USA


Those may help, but not sure if they would grab as well as the brass washers did. Certainly worth a try!


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

yeahdog31 said:


> Something like this?
> Wheels Alloy Middle Ring Spacer Bag/20 > Components > Drivetrain > Chainring Bolts | Jenson USA


That's what I did when I changed my front chainring to a Surly from the stock Truvativ. The Surly was burlier and I could tighten my bolts down but they were being stripped out, turned out the issue was that the bolts were too short when used with the bash guard. The next set I got from what was on hand at the LBS and they were too long, so I had to use those spacers. So far no repeat problems.


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## lobstermike (Apr 29, 2012)

kustomz said:


> I remember back in the day, I had a '99 Jamis Komodo with a Shimano drivetrain and it had thin brass washers under the bolt heads. I transferred that drivetrain to several bikes over the years and never had problems with loosening. Eventually those washers wore out after much swapping around and then I started experiencing loosening. All that to say, if you can find an LBS that is old school, you may be able to find those thin washers.


Yes...i remember those brass washers...had them on a shimano deore triple. As you say they are not present on todays cranksets.
They were paper thin.


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## BigDriveLittleWedge (Jan 2, 2014)

Try Loctite Blue 242(comes in red or blue bottle). I think the number makes a different on strength


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Eh, you said you're using blue loctite, switch to red.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Something is definitely wrong, the bolts are either bottoming out, not engaging enough threads, faulty, or something else.

I never use loctite, grease only on mine or anyone else's bike I work on and never have trouble with them loosing on any type of bike including singlespeeds. I sure wouldn't use red loctite unless you don't mind drilling out the bolts next time you need to remove them.


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## DucatiRider (Oct 1, 2014)

Something is wrong with either the components or assembly. Ruled those out then try safety wire. Standard operating procedure on my track moto. Light and effective.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Two works: Direct Mount!

Seriously though, as others have mentioned, something within the setup is not right. Either the parts don't work together correctly or they are not being installed correctly.

Did you say you used this exact setup before on a non SS bike, the exact same ring and bash guard?

This is kind of far-fetched, but I will throw it out there anyway: Maybe after the first time the bolts loosened the chainring and/or crank are now deformed. This can easily happen if you don't realize right away that the bolts are loose/missing. Once they are deformed, no matter what you do with the bolts, they still loosen up because there is more force on them because the ring/cranks are deformed.

Kind of like back in the square taper BB days: When an aluminum crank arm got loose on the BB spindle and you kept riding, the 'square' in the crank got deformed. Once that happened, it was impossible to keep the crank tight, it would always loosen up.

Also, as J.B. Weld said, chainring bolts should never need loctite. A little grease on the threads and that's it. I've always had more issues removing chainring bolts than keeping them tight!


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## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

Try locking washers at the interface to the bolt and c/r, plus the locktite.

Please go to DFMBA.org and donate for Phoenix trail advocacy.


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## PUNKY (Apr 26, 2010)

Use anti seize threading compound. 

I assume the bolts are alloy Hex? My guess would've been dirt in threads, but multiple bolts make that sound unlikely. 

I switched to the short black Shimano Torx bolts a while back and have been trouble free w/XT new model and Zee on Chromag ring. 

I had a similar problem when running a Straitline Silent Guide and race ring a few years back. Problem went away when I went to the Chromag ring/Der Guide setup.


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## iowamtb (May 17, 2014)

Cotharyus said:


> Eh, you said you're using blue loctite, switch to red.


Are you crazy...:nono: I would never use red loctite on anything unless I never wanted to take it apart again. Only way to remove that minus drilling is with heat... like a torch. I just replaced my ring and used anti seize. I anti seize every bolt on my bike. I agree with the others that said something is not assembled right or just isn't right. I don't think they should be working loose just cause you didn't loctite them.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Agree, set up is wrong. Buy new SINGLESPEED bolts for chainring. Teeny bit of grease and a Torque wrench at this point, as you are having problems. On a side note, I use steel chainring bolts, for no particular reason at all.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

iowamtb said:


> Are you crazy...:nono: I would never use red loctite on anything unless I never wanted to take it apart again. Only way to remove that minus drilling is with heat... like a torch. I just replaced my ring and used anti seize. I anti seize every bolt on my bike. I agree with the others that said something is not assembled right or just isn't right. I don't think they should be working loose just cause you didn't loctite them.


Well, I am crazy. But that was my response to the fact loctite was already being used. Plus, I have a torch. So heat was never a problem for me. I don't have any red loctite though....


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## mcoplea (Nov 11, 2004)

+1 on using steal single ring bolts. I also have been running XT cranks with the same chainring and no issues. I am not a fan of using the bashguard on a SS. No real need for it.

Something like this works great - https://www.biketiresdirect.com/pro..._4k4cenwulimfevn4yufenithzop8zz2r4hocn6bw_wcb


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## SSChameleon (Feb 2, 2006)

When I first tried to convert a shimano crank to SS I had the issue of the bolts being loose. I flipped the female bolt around and was able to get the bolt to engage the crank and they haven't moved in years.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

Personally I "safety wire" mine, after that never a lose bolt much less a missing..


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## yeahdog31 (Jul 13, 2009)

UPDATE:
I removed the BBG Bashguard (really wasn't using it as a true bash -- I just like the clean look and little bit of extra protection they provided) and switched to the shallow single ring specific bolts. No problems at all with that setup.
Since then, I found a really good deal on a RaceFace single ring, and since my old Blackspire was starting to look a little shark-finned, I replaced it along with brand new RaceFace bolts. Those bolts have held up well for me on my other bike.

In essence, I think two things were the culprit: 1) the female part of the original bolts were just a VERY small bit too long, causing it to not completely tighten, hence causing 2) the slightly loose bolts were wallowing out the aluminum of the BBG Bashguard, making the whole thing even looser, until they dropped out on the trail. 

Thanks to all for the suggestions and comments. Let's just say that I've been keeping a closer eye on ALL the torque settings on my bikes lately.


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## iowamtb (May 17, 2014)

yeahdog31 said:


> UPDATE:
> I removed the BBG Bashguard (really wasn't using it as a true bash -- I just like the clean look and little bit of extra protection they provided) and switched to the shallow single ring specific bolts. No problems at all with that setup.
> Since then, I found a really good deal on a RaceFace single ring, and since my old Blackspire was starting to look a little shark-finned, I replaced it along with brand new RaceFace bolts. Those bolts have held up well for me on my other bike.
> 
> ...


Glad you figured it out. I removed my bashguard out of necessity (chain ring didn't fit the inside of my spider only outside) and had to grind about 1/6" off the female part of my ring bolts cause they were just a smidge too long as well. I have since bought a new ring that matches my cranks and put my bash guard back on and they are still long enough to use thankfully. I have checked them and they are staying tight. Nothing but anti seize...


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## bgenesis12 (Jul 11, 2014)

seems legit! lol


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## mcoplea (Nov 11, 2004)

yeahdog31 said:


> UPDATE:
> I removed the BBG Bashguard (really wasn't using it as a true bash -- I just like the clean look and little bit of extra protection they provided) and switched to the shallow single ring specific bolts. No problems at all with that setup.
> Since then, I found a really good deal on a RaceFace single ring, and since my old Blackspire was starting to look a little shark-finned, I replaced it along with brand new RaceFace bolts. Those bolts have held up well for me on my other bike.
> 
> ...


Glad that you figured it out. Enjoy the ride!


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## yeahdog31 (Jul 13, 2009)

I might be back to the drawing board. The brand-new RaceFace bolts are loosening now. Aside from going to a spider-less crank, I'm a bit flustered. Again, I've never had this trouble with any crank before. I am truly baffled. 

I am going to look for some of those washers, and give that a go. Crank bolts have always just been a set-and-forget item for me, and I don't really like having to worry about them on every ride. 

Common sense dictates that Loctite would be more effective than grease. What do you all think? Is that my problem?


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## febikes (Jan 28, 2011)

yeahdog31 said:


> Common sense dictates that Loctite would be more effective than grease. What do you all think? Is that my problem?


Loctite is standard practice for chainring bolts, water bottle bolts, and many other small bolts.


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## RojoRacing53 (Jul 23, 2013)

yeahdog31 said:


> I might be back to the drawing board. The brand-new RaceFace bolts are loosening now. Aside from going to a spider-less crank, I'm a bit flustered. Again, I've never had this trouble with any crank before. I am truly baffled.
> 
> I am going to look for some of those washers, and give that a go. Crank bolts have always just been a set-and-forget item for me, and I don't really like having to worry about them on every ride.
> 
> Common sense dictates that Loctite would be more effective than grease. What do you all think? Is that my problem?


I went through all your issues with my rotor crankset so I bought a XX1 crank so I could go with Absolute black spiderless rings. Then AB gave me the run around then I tried to order my third ring from them months later, story they fed me was it was shipping this week for like 5 weeks strait. I day before my big 24hr race I drove an hour to E13's headquarters and picked up a full crankset from them as they seem to have more stock on hand then most off these small time chainring builders. I've been extremely happy with the direct mount E13 setup and would recomend it on any bike SS or geared.

Ron a local well know SSer runs chain ring bolts on his SS bikes and never seems to have a problem and I can guarantee your not turning the cranks harder then he is. so it's not a power issue.


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## mcoplea (Nov 11, 2004)

yeahdog31 said:


> I might be back to the drawing board. The brand-new RaceFace bolts are loosening now. Aside from going to a spider-less crank, I'm a bit flustered. Again, I've never had this trouble with any crank before. I am truly baffled.
> 
> I am going to look for some of those washers, and give that a go. Crank bolts have always just been a set-and-forget item for me, and I don't really like having to worry about them on every ride.
> 
> Common sense dictates that Loctite would be more effective than grease. What do you all think? Is that my problem?


Sorry to hear that you are still having issues. You are correct, chainring bolts should be a set it and forget it kind of thing.

Are those Race Face bolts aluminium? If so, go with STEEL single ring bolts. Also, a torque wrench may be helpful to insure they are set properly.


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## DucatiRider (Oct 1, 2014)

The bolts are loosening even after using blue Loctite?


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## yeahdog31 (Jul 13, 2009)

DucatiRider said:


> The bolts are loosening even after using blue Loctite?


That is correct. Sometimes as quickly as one or two rides after installing. It has gotten to the point that every time we stop to chat (and catch our breath) on the trail, I reach down and re-check them.


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## DucatiRider (Oct 1, 2014)

Before you used Loctite you cleaned the male and female parts with acetone, let them dry and applied a light coating of blue Loctite? Those parts shouldn't be greased and if contaminated will confound the Loctite.


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## iowamtb (May 17, 2014)

If they are coming loose that frequently something else has to be wrong. Mine are anti seized. they don't come loose. of course maybe I'm not putting on near as many miles as you are either. And for sure if you're using Loctite they shouldn't come loose. Even blue loctite. Something's gotta be wrong I don't know what but it just has to be in my opinion.


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## masterofnone (Jun 21, 2009)

I had a similar issue with the crank bolt coming loose, everything getting wiggly and sometimes losing the crank altogether. Degreasing the bolt, Loctite, and a couple retightening checks and all good since.


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## OneBadWagon (Mar 29, 2007)

For anyone who is wondering: Origin 8 chainring bolts are trash.

I switched to Sugino and my problems all went away.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

I've been using sugino SS steel chainring bolts for years with great results. Give them a try.


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## yeahdog31 (Jul 13, 2009)

*finally!*

After trying several types of bolts (steel, aluminum, Origin8, RaceFace, etc.), I landed on some that have actually stayed tight. 
The TruVativ ones here include washers, and feature hex bolts on both sides, which makes them quite simple to tighten to proper specs without fumbling with a chainring bolt wrench or skinned knuckles. 
These have remained tight after a few months of riding with no problems. Highly recommended to anyone else that has experienced the same issue.


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## KgB (Jan 13, 2004)

that's crazy, I like the Truvativ's also. grease, not loctite and certainly never ever red loctite IMHO


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