# Vintage XT VS Deore



## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

What's the big difference between XT and Deore? I've used Deore on a lot of different bikes. Never had a problem. I keep hearing just how good XT is though. So, I'll ask the experts. Is the difference in performance worth the difference in price. 

On ebay vintage 7 sp XT parts really command a premium price. 


Tim


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Really?*



CS2 said:


> On ebay vintage 7 sp XT parts really command a premium price.
> Tim


I've never found that to be the case, buying or selling.
With the exception of the fluctuating crazes for thumbshifters.

Performance difference...not much, if any. XT parts were generally a bit lighter and used 'better' materials in some instances. In a blind test you'd be hard pressed to find a difference.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

The shifter mounts were a notable difference, but the difference is smaller than between XC Pro and XC Comp which isn't that large as well. It is generally the case that as you move up the component food change you get less for your buck.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

Shayne said:


> I've never found that to be the case, buying or selling.
> With the exception of the fluctuating crazes for thumbshifters.
> 
> Performance difference...not much, if any. XT parts were generally a bit lighter and used 'better' materials in some instances. In a blind test you'd be hard pressed to find a difference.


I have to agree with you on the thumbies, prices are all over the place. XT thumbies are way higher than standard Deore. Usually, you can pick up nice Deore 7 sp for $30 or less. I've never seen XT for anywhere near that.

I have been on an XT der buying binge. The only problem is finding fronts in 28.6.

XT canti's are out there but usually priced higher than comparable Deore. I've basically got a complete XT group less brake levers and wheels.

Tim


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

bushpig said:


> The shifter mounts were a notable difference, but the difference is smaller than between XC Pro and XC Comp which isn't that large as well. It is generally the case that as you move up the component food change you get less for your buck.


yep, take XTR over XT, almost double the price for a 5% performance gain. Same for Dura Ace to Ultegra.

It seems that the Deore thumb shifters' clicks would deteriorate quickly and feel kinda dead. The XT is snappier (in my experience)and its got a prettier aluminum clamp compared to the Deore's stamped steel clamp. But said aluminum clamp can be stripped out with a ham-fisted mechanic behind the allen.

We'll probably never really know if there were tolerance or material differences between the two groups, but there probably is a few in favor of XT i would guess. From XT to XTR there surely are...


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Some of the bits were identical except for finish. The shifter mechanism is the same except for the top cap and alloy clamps on the XT. The XT cranks were cold forged vs. melt forged on the Deore. Were the brake arms cold forged as well? Can't remember the processes used but the chain rings are nicer on the XT cranks. Substitution of Deore steel parts with alloy XT parts. 

All of this is from memory so don't go betting any farms on it.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

DX middle rings were thinner at the spider holes and needed small 1mm thick washers to get the same ring center to center spacing. XT rear derailleurs used steel inner plates and alloy outer ones in both short and long cage versions. Only the DX short cage derailleur got the alloy outer plate... the long cage was steel for both and thus a lot heavier (about 55g at 325 vs 270). The difference between the XT and DX short cages was minor in comparison (250g XT, 256g DX). XT Hubs had sliding greaseport covers to allow you to fit a grease gun and squirt in new lube but DX hubs were lighter.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

DeeEight said:


> DX middle rings were thinner at the spider holes and needed small 1mm thick washers to get the same ring center to center spacing. XT rear derailleurs used steel inner plates and alloy outer ones in both short and long cage versions. Only the DX short cage derailleur got the alloy outer plate... the long cage was steel for both and thus a lot heavier (about 55g at 325 vs 270). The difference between the XT and DX short cages was minor in comparison (250g XT, 256g DX). XT Hubs had sliding greaseport covers to allow you to fit a grease gun and squirt in new lube but DX hubs were lighter.


You had to go and throw DX into the mix. From what I can tell from my limited research is that a lot of DX parts were actually XT raw forgings but finished differently. I've compared a set of DX cantis to a set of XT I own. As far as I can tell, they are virtually identical. I know DX weigh a few grams more but not that much.

Tim


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

CS2 said:


> You had to go and throw DX into the mix. From what I can tell from my limited research is that a lot of DX parts were actually XT raw forgings but finished differently. I've compared a set of DX cantis to a set of XT I own. As far as I can tell, they are virtually identical. I know DX weigh a few grams more but not that much.
> 
> Tim


sure, a lot of the same forgings, but thats not everything to a component. For derailleurs there's lots of other factors, for cranks a big difference would be whether or not they were cold forged. The XT cranks were.

Deore DX is equivalent to Deore, just made at different times. Deore LX, which was formerly Mountain LX, was a step down from DX.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Oops, missed Fillet's comments about the XT bases stripping.

Did the Deore shifters shifting get dead feeling because of the way the stamped steel bases always seemed to eventually bend? I don't recall how the base interacted with the indexing if at all.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

IF52 said:


> Oops, missed Fillet's comments about the XT bases stripping.
> 
> Did the Deore shifters shifting get dead feeling because of the way the stamped steel bases always seemed to eventually bend? I don't recall how the base interacted with the indexing if at all.


All of the Deore thumbies I've owned shifted as well as new. Actually, Deore's steel base was much more durable than the XT. I'm not convinced that the few extra grams you save with aluminum bases is worth the decrease in durability. Those aluminum bases strip really easy.

Tim


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

CS2 said:


> All of the Deore thumbies I've owned shifted as well as new. Actually, Deore's steel base was much more durable than the XT. I'm not convinced that the few extra grams you save with aluminum bases is worth the decrease in durability. Those aluminum bases strip really easy.
> 
> Tim


We oftentimes saw the stamped steel bases start to look like they were sagging, but still shifted well.

The cast bases do kind of suck in how they strip so easily. We found that the pinch bolt was about a milimeter too short and would only grab the first couple thread in the base. It didn't really take a ham fisted mechanic to strip them. We made a practice of replacing the stock pinch bolt with a longer one and obviously greased the threads and that helped a lot. In fact if you strip the threads out with the stock bolt you can usually use a longer bolt and be back in business. In that case loctite helps.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

IF52 said:


> We oftentimes saw the stamped steel bases start to look like they were sagging, but still shifted well.
> 
> The cast bases do kind of suck in how they strip so easily. We found that the pinch bolt was about a milimeter too short and would only grab the first couple thread in the base. It didn't really take a ham fisted mechanic to strip them. We made a practice of replacing the stock pinch bolt with a longer one and obviously greased the threads and that helped a lot. In fact if you strip the threads out with the stock bolt you can usually use a longer bolt and be back in business. In that case loctite helps.


Ive never personally stripped one, and Ive probably mounted hundreds, but have seen a number that were stripped. They werent that easy. (I just checked two here and theyre getting 7-8 threads, not just the first couple). It was the mechanics that didnt grease the threads and tightened it like it was a lugnut on a car. I hate that. The longer bolts worked well, even after stripped with the stock bolt. Some would even pop a hole through the other side due to their extra length.

I too have seen bent Deores. If youre bending them from shifting forces then youve got other mechanical issues (ie lube your cables)

I dont know, stamped steel on my handlebars bugs me with its crudeness. Plus those clicks on the deores seemed kinda dead.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

CS2 said:


> You had to go and throw DX into the mix. From what I can tell from my limited research is that a lot of DX parts were actually XT raw forgings but finished differently. I've compared a set of DX cantis to a set of XT I own. As far as I can tell, they are virtually identical. I know DX weigh a few grams more but not that much.
> 
> Tim


XT cantis (narrow profile) had little plastic bubbles with the Shimano logo, DX just had flat stickers, the XTs had a higher gloss finish to them too as I recall, a lacquer maybe? Loved those brakes, so solid compared to Suntours.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

mechagouki said:


> XT cantis (narrow profile) had little plastic bubbles with the Shimano logo, DX just had flat stickers, the XTs had a higher gloss finish to them too as I recall, a lacquer maybe? Loved those brakes, so solid compared to Suntours.


The XT also had nicer hardware that wouldnt fall apart on the floor when the pad was pulled out to be replaced.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Technically the Deore mtb groups were Deore and Deore XT (6speed), then Deore II and Deore XT-II (7speed) and then when Mountain LX got renamed Deore LX, Deore II became Deore DX, and all the exage sport stuff became that Exage 300LX, 400LX and 500LX, and then there was the 100GS and 200GS. Then after XTR came out there was this big trickle down move by shimano in 1993 with everything getting the thumb-trigger rapidfire plus treatment, and the exage groups being cut to two (LT and ES), and the GS stuff going to that Altus A10, A20, C10 and C20. Really it was that trickling of XTR features and how much of improvement occurred in Deore LX that spelled the death of the Deore DX group. Product managers all over replaced Deore DX groups on bikes with Deore LX groups, because it got more of the improvements (and that shiny black finish) than Deore DX did. DX got the rapidfire plus shifters (with servowave levers) as XT had gotten the year before, and they both got ramped/pinned SG-X middle and big rings to their cranks. What they didn't get was new low-profile crankarms and shorter BB spindles like LX and the other groups did.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I dont know, stamped steel on my handlebars bugs me with its crudeness. Plus those clicks on the deores seemed kinda dead.


The internals were identical. The only differences were aluminum bases and plastic top caps. This was strictly a weight move. If you're Deore were dead then they were used up more than the XT.

Tim


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## mojo_matic (Jul 15, 2007)

For what it is worth, I have recently disassembled both a set of Shimano Deore (DX) and XT thumb shifters.

Internal mechanisms are EXACTLY the same. I am a bit confused how the Deore set can exhibit a "kinda dead" feeling? The only difference is the mounting base (aluminum or steel) and the color of the top cap. 

I do have a brand new front XT front shifter that grinds and is exceptionally stiff. I have disassembled and reassembled numerous times and tried different lube methods. It is garbage.... 

I recently built up a bike for my fiance' using a set of Deore shifters. They feel and work great. I like them better than XT thumbies used of two of my bikes. I want them................ oh well. 

I would recommend the Deore shifters. The steel mount will not fail under direct impact, and bolt threads will not strip as easily, as with aluminum. Of course, the silver caps will not make you as cool as if you run XT's. 

-PRO shifters will perform better than XC-COMP?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

mojo_matic said:


> For what it is worth, I have recently disassembled both a set of Shimano Deore (DX) and XT thumb shifters.
> 
> Internal mechanisms are EXACTLY the same. I am a bit confused how the Deore set can exhibit a "kinda dead" feeling? The only difference is the mounting base (aluminum or steel) and the color of the top cap.
> 
> ...


yeah, I dont know, Im just going by what Ive seen in the field/at the shop back in the day. I have opened up a rear XT but never a Deore. It wouldnt really surprise me either way if they were identical internals.

Yeah, I'd recommend you guys buy up the Deores as well. Keeps the price lower for the pretty XTs. Like you say, the XTs are garbage, while the Deores are smooth.


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## mojo_matic (Jul 15, 2007)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Yeah, I'd recommend you guys buy up the Deores as well. Keeps the price lower for the pretty XTs. Like you say, the XTs are garbage, while the Deores are smooth.


Um... Did I stat that XTs were garbage, or did I state that I had an XT front shifter that was garbage? I was suggesting that "feel" may be subjective to fluctuations in quality control, taking into consideration that everything about the mount base is identical. What might chap some snob's asses is that I chose to replaced the front shifter with an XC-Expert which ROCKS (still cannot seem to get 8 speed Suntour thumbies to work fluid with 8 speed cassette...at least not on par with Shimano thumbies).

XT shifters on my other bikes perform fine... but the Deore shifters I spoke of feel great.

Of course, cable routing and condition also have a significant impact....

IMHO, a set of Deore shifter for $20 is a better value than a set of $65 XT levers, unless you are being a snob (which we are all guilty of?).


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

mojo_matic said:


> Um... Did I stat that XTs were garbage, or did I state that I had an XT front shifter that was garbage? I was suggesting that "feel" may be subjective to fluctuations in quality control, taking into consideration that everything about the mount base is identical. What might chap some snob's asses is that I chose to replaced the front shifter with an XC-Expert which ROCKS (still cannot seem to get 8 speed Suntour thumbies to work fluid with 8 speed cassette...at least not on par with Shimano thumbies).
> 
> XT shifters on my other bikes perform fine... but the Deore shifters I spoke of feel great.
> 
> ...


im done with this, but it depends on what youre building too. If youre building a commuter, go with the Deore, if youre building something pretty or a collectible, use XT.

I have a DX rd on my town bike and it shifts like a champ.


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## mojo_matic (Jul 15, 2007)

Fillet-brazed said:


> im a snob, but it depends on what youre building too. If youre building a commuter, go with the Deore, if youre building something pretty or a collectible, use XT.
> 
> I have a DX rd on my town bike and it shifts like a champ.


:thumbsup:


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

I noticed the deadness too and thinking about it I think it is due to the stiffness of the mount. I submit that the stamped steel Deore and Deore DX mounts had some give and so when you shifted it wouldn't feel as crisp as with XT with their stiff alloy mounts.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

That's what I was wondering. I haven't used Deore in years, but like I wrote before we used to see them come in looking like the were kind of bent. I don't recall if the indexing has squat to do with the base plate, but a bit of give in the base might make it feel less precise.


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