# Good GPS for mountain and road riding



## globewyre (Jan 21, 2004)

I got the magellan 400 explorist for christmas. When I loaded the maps it had no local roads. I have to spend more money on there map software. Their map software had an online demo on their web site. I could not find any local road in my area with that. Is there a better GPS I should exchange this for? It seems like the Garmin have more feature and are easier to use.


----------



## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

*forgot, one other thing*

either way you go, magellin or garmin, don't get their bike mount - they suck.

Ram mounts hold the unit way better.


----------



## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

I've found the magellin topo data to be very detailed, at least for my area (and most everywhere I've ever been - only time I've been on roads not on the map was in Tahiti). It even shows my 30 foot long driveway. 

I've used many GPS units (work related) and found the magellin meridan to be one of the easier ones to use, with more features than I ever use. Best thing about it, what makes magellin really rip the nuts off garmin, IMO is that magellin uses SD cards for memory, so you can have as much as you want, where garmin uses built-in (and not much at most price points at that). I use a spare 512MB card from my camera - I don't think you can even get half that in a garmin - I keep the continental US topo map loaded, where if i where limited to 24mb or whatever garmin has, I would have to change out map files for travel. Also, magellin GPSs are seriously waterproof (like IP x8) where I don't think all garmin units are (and they float).

Only think I don't like about mine is the serial interface cable - none of my computers have a serial port, so i have to use an adaptor. 

It sucks that you have to buy the data seperately, but everyone seems to do the same. If you are in the market for a gps, I'd get the meridian gold "topo package" at thegpsstore.com includes the GPS, the topo software and a 64MB SD card.


----------



## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

*Go for Garmin.*



globewyre said:


> I got the magellan 400 explorist for christmas. When I loaded the maps it had no local roads. I have to spend more money on there map software. Their map software had an online demo on their web site. I could not find any local road in my area with that. Is there a better GPS I should exchange this for? It seems like the Garmin have more feature and are easier to use.


In any case you'll have to buy some extra software for local maps. I tried both and Garmin has a specific 24k maps you can buy separately, very detailed. You can buy the one you need pretty cheap on eBay (maybe $80).

I find the interface of the Magellan eXplorist very hard to use and user unfriendly . I tried and used eXplorist 500, 600 and xL.

Plus with Garmin you can use several online mapping and trainin tools like Motionbased and Singletrackmind that only work with Garmin.
Every company has their own propietary map format, so once you pick one you'll stick with them. Garmin seems to be licensing their format around so you see some companies coming up with maps and stuff for Garmin.
I had Magellan for over 8 years now, but I'm going to switch now, mainly because of much more flexibility in choosing the info on the screens and online tool compatibility.

If you want color screen you can get Etrex Legend C or Vista C for between $200 and $250. You can spend a lot less for B/W. 
Hope this hepls.
ZT


----------



## LyncStar (Feb 16, 2006)

Joules said:


> Best thing about it, what makes magellin really rip the nuts off garmin, IMO is that magellin uses SD cards for memory, so you can have as much as you want, where garmin uses built-in (and not much at most price points at that).


Garmin has a new unit out called the eTrex Vista Cx which contains a removable SD card. It is extremely slick and comes with their new Sirf antenna that is factors more reliable than the older one, or so I'm told (haven't actually used it yet).


----------



## MuckSavage (Feb 6, 2006)

*Map Details*

You may have the info in your GPS'r, however, my Maggie Meridian Platinum has an option of turning on & off certain map detail data. Maybe you need to check this setting?


----------



## KINBOY (May 23, 2004)

Take a look at the new Garmin Edge 305, I just ordered one after a week of deciding.


----------



## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

KINBOY said:


> Take a look at the new Garmin Edge 305, I just ordered one after a week of deciding.


the 305 is really more of a training computer than a mapping gps


----------



## KINBOY (May 23, 2004)

Ya not too great for mapping but you can post points and load in routes to the unit. No onscreen map but it will lead you, for a bike its great especially in the woods!

Here is the drive around town setting it up.
I have the HR just didnt have it on driving, would be funny though!

http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/...&unitSystemPkValue=1&episodePk.pkValue=522598


----------



## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

Just an update on my previous post.
I finally got the Etrex Vista Cx, and I have to say it rocks, It's extremely compact and lightweight and packs so many features I can't believe.
I was thinking about the edge 305, but for a little more price and size you get a lot more.
I mainly do XC, so for me mapping was important - I really hate to get lost in the woods or in the desert. The last bit - very sweet for me - is that Garmin announced support for Mac OS-X and already put out a beta. At the same time Motionbased (which is now owned by Garmin) made the same thing (although limited to the Edge for now).
The only ting I'm missing is the racing feature (being able to race agains yourself, that the Edge 305 has) and the HR monitor log - but I can live without those.
The Motion Based site is great. I'm going to test how the new antenna and chipset works in the woods (they said that was really improved)
ZT


----------



## LyncStar (Feb 16, 2006)

Zen_Turtle said:


> I'm going to test how the new antenna and chipset works in the woods (they said that was really improved)
> ZT


Thanks for the post. That said, the Vista Cx doesn't have the new Sirf antenna that the Edge has. I really think Garmin got that one ass backward. The Sirf would be much better suited for the Cx than for the Edge units. Do you mind telling us how much you paid and where you got it? I'm seeing eBay prices in the neighborhood of $300, inclusive of shipping.


----------



## Down boy down (Mar 2, 2006)

KINBOY said:


> Ya not too great for mapping but you can post points and load in routes to the unit. No onscreen map but it will lead you, for a bike its great especially in the woods!
> 
> Here is the drive around town setting it up.
> I have the HR just didnt have it on driving, would be funny though!
> ...


Are you happy with the purchase (Garmin 305)? So on the fense regarding purchase. Have computer that works fine but seeking a bit more like altimter, etc. Looks cool


----------



## KINBOY (May 23, 2004)

Its great, I am so glad I made the purchase. Its great because I am selling my old Computers from both other bikes, making training easier to track (I used to input it manually into the computer).

The amount of data is awesome, I am also supplying a lionk to friends to look at my logs and keep track of my training, deal is if I dip below 250km per week in any week, I buy the beer for poker night that week!
It will surely keep me on the bike!
If you have any specific questions, feel free to write me

Kin


----------



## Down boy down (Mar 2, 2006)

KINBOY said:


> Its great, I am so glad I made the purchase. Its great because I am selling my old Computers from both other bikes, making training easier to track (I used to input it manually into the computer).
> 
> The amount of data is awesome, I am also supplying a lionk to friends to look at my logs and keep track of my training, deal is if I dip below 250km per week in any week, I buy the beer for poker night that week!
> It will surely keep me on the bike!
> ...


250! that's big. Sounds like with that distance logged/week you may be on road? These days I luck to get in 75 miles on trails. Perhaps wrong assumption but if not here goes, I have a Thomson X-4 90 on my mtn bike and wanted to mount it on my stem (v. handlebars).

I know you can place on either but any thoughts if it will fit on that stem length/design


----------



## KINBOY (May 23, 2004)

Well My stem is 5" and the stem is 4" and it fits pervect. I have a riser bar with a cross beam and I am hoping that it gives it a bit of protection as well.

Here is a pic as how it fits.


----------



## KINBOY (May 23, 2004)

As for the Km's I do about 150 a week road and the rest off road. I have lots of spare time and I spend nost of it on the bike.

Also you get a bar mount with the 305 and its going on the road bike, its a great buy, really there is nothing more that you can ask for!


----------



## Down boy down (Mar 2, 2006)

Thanks for the insight. BTW -F'n sick ride!


----------



## KINBOY (May 23, 2004)

Thanks, its a bit old school, but works amazing, and its fast!

8 Speed and XTR/XT And the Noleen ROCKS!

PS, Anyone have a rear spin wheel or even an internal (just the hub)?

I have a front already and a rear with a busted internals....Broken axle...


----------



## roseyscot (Sep 19, 2004)

*Edge 305*

From what I've seen the Edge 305 will be the most appropriate GPS for my needs. My question is what other items will be required to maximize the features of the 305 with my training and my Apple computer? Am I going to need to invest an additional $100 in some silly software to view the maps and track my previous rides, or will I have sufficient resources with the 305 unit and the included software/accessories?

by the way, i plan to buy from REI since they have such fantastic support for anything purchased. If it is not what I expect, I'll just return it.


----------



## KINBOY (May 23, 2004)

There are 2 things that come with the unit. The Traingin Center, which seems like a good traingin and storage and data manipulation tool. The second you have to get is Motion based. It is a more detailed tool and maps rides and such for you, there is a basic (free) and an upgrade (about $7US I think a month) which allows unlimited storage and other analysis. 
I am not sure about the mac thing though, I am a PC user and have heard mixed things.

Here is a link to the forum that I use about the Garmin 305 and feel free to email me about it at [email protected] I have answered a lot fo questions and I did a lot of research about the unit before I committed to buying it. http://forums.motionbased.com/smf/index.php?board=55.0

KIN


----------



## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

roseyscot said:


> From what I've seen the Edge 305 will be the most appropriate GPS for my needs. My question is what other items will be required to maximize the features of the 305 with my training and my Apple computer? Am I going to need to invest an additional $100 in some silly software to view the maps and track my previous rides, or will I have sufficient resources with the 305 unit and the included software/accessories?
> 
> by the way, i plan to buy from REI since they have such fantastic support for anything purchased. If it is not what I expect, I'll just return it.


for training you wont need anything else, it comes with software, if you want maps you will need map software , at rei its $100 for the topo or national geographic topo(better but no uploads only downloads from gps)


----------



## Down boy down (Mar 2, 2006)

Dude,

Picked up the 205 yesterday and after riding ~20 miles in the hills ran home to play with gps. Agreed included software is adequate but motion based rocks. So cool is the Acrobat mapping. Love those downhillssssssssss.

Thanks for the info


----------



## blmls1 (Mar 21, 2006)

How accurate is the location on the Garmin 305 and 205, and how accurate are the Heart beat recordings on the Garmin 305.


----------



## KINBOY (May 23, 2004)

Location is within 3-10 feet (depending on signal strength), mine has stayed at 5 feet and only been higher when first started, after about 3 mins it drops.

The HR is dead on, as accurate as my old polar and shows the info in zones as well. I am very happy with the unit!


----------



## XRAYO (Aug 8, 2005)

I ride with the Edge 305 Bundle (HR + Cadence) every day. Frankly, everyone who sees mine wants one. If you're one of those, there's an ad on the MTBR classifieds - search on "Garmin Edge".

Today I realized I hadn't turned off my Edge after yesterday's ride and data upload (I had left it turned on overnight) and the battery was drained. I turned around and went home to charge it up. It's too much fun riding with it.

www.motionbased.com is a hoot. Talk about incentive to ride more...

BTW, I'm a Mac user. Motionbased recently wrote a plug-in for Safari that lets you upload your data from the Edge to their database. I don't use Training Center yet because Garmin's Mac support isn't complete (promised soon). FYI, Motionbased is now owned by Garmin.

This is very good stuff.

X


----------



## blmls1 (Mar 21, 2006)

How does the edge 305 monitor your speed? and where did you purchase your 305?


----------



## KINBOY (May 23, 2004)

Via GPS, its as accurate as a conventional computer for the bike so far in my experience.

You can get the cadence sensor and it will double as a back up or uses it without gps inside on a trainer or such.

KIN


----------



## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

*Finally...*

I got my new Etrex mounted on the handlebar (the stem actually).
The original garmin mount sucks and its definitely not suited for mountain biking. I got myself one of those nice RAM mounts and modified to my needs. Here's the result.

As far as reception I have to say it's awesome, considering the patch antenna: I had no probs in the woods and regardeless from trees signal is good.
In deep narrow canyons it's not matter of signal strenght, and any GPS has problems. 
I compared side by side with my old Magellan 320 (which has a real antenna) and signal reception is actually slightly better on the Garmin. In most cases I can get a fix while inside my house on the first floor. 

The color display rocks and once I loaded the topo maps it's like having a real map with you all the times: this is actually the reason I preferred the etrex to the 305.
As far as size it doesn't look much bigger than the 305, and you can change batteries on the go (regular AAs) That's another plus vs. the 305 for me.

Anyway, real happy with my new toy, and thanks MaotionBased and Garmin for Mac Support (I hope they'll support etrex with the MB Agent soon)  
ZT


----------



## Down boy down (Mar 2, 2006)

*Garmin 205*

Anticipate I may be a dumba$$, but solicting some help. I purchased the* 205* and cannot get to a particluar menu/setting opion.

According to multiple picture I have seen on the internet and in adverts( bike and outdoor mags) I should be able to get a "historical" altimeter graph like the pic enclosed (or so I think that what it is). Perhaps this the setting for when you race against yourself os something else? Although I thought that had two biker icons

Somethig tells me this may only exist on 305 and adverts are wrong/false

Please advise if I am doing anything wrong. What is menu and setting than I am missing? Other than this I am totally down with this unit...it rocks


----------



## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

I think you have to set up that screen to include that feature, go into setup and add that screen


----------



## Down boy down (Mar 2, 2006)

*Not sure*



dan0 said:


> I think you have to set up that screen to include that feature, go into setup and add that screen


Unfortunately, I don't think it is as easy as that. (Menu on unit is fairly intuitive). I believe it is related to the Barometric Altimeter that according to the manual only exists on the 305 and not the 205. (I still may be wrong).

If it is, I cannot reconcile the adverts and the product offering. A bit disappointing


----------



## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

Down boy down said:


> Unfortunately, I don't think it is as easy as that. (Menu on unit is fairly intuitive). I believe it is related to the Barometric Altimeter that according to the manual only exists on the 305 and not the 205. (I still may be wrong).
> 
> If it is, I cannot reconcile the adverts and the product offering. A bit disappointing


its true the barometric altimeter is only on the 305 but the 205 uses the gps for altimeter readings(not as accurate but doable)

from the garmin site

Forerunner series comparison guide Here's how the units are different:

Forerunner 205:

Measures time, distance, pace, altitude and calories burned 
Forerunner 305:

Measures heart rate, time, distance, pace, altitude and calories burned 
Compatible with Garmin speed/cadence sensor, GSC 10, to monitor pedaling cadence when cycling


----------



## Down boy down (Mar 2, 2006)

dan0 said:


> its true the barometric altimeter is only on the 305 but the 205 uses the gps for altimeter readings(not as accurate but doable)
> 
> Edge 205 does have altimeter that seems to be working fine (much better than my older Brunton) but does not seem to have graphical display of accent/decent as portrayed in picture I included in prior post (again, unless I am missing something).
> 
> ...


----------



## trauma-md (Nov 22, 2004)

Zen_Turtle said:


> I got my new Etrex mounted on the handlebar (the stem actually).
> The original garmin mount sucks and its definitely not suited for mountain biking. I got myself one of those nice RAM mounts and modified to my needs. Here's the result.
> ZT


Hey Zen....can you show (pics) and tell how you created or modded this mount. I, too, have a Vista C and want to mount it on the stem....Thanks in advance.....

Scott


----------



## KINBOY (May 23, 2004)

The pic that you have in your question is the race mode where you are racing a virtual partener. I know you can do it, I have the 305, use this site for more info

http://forums.motionbased.com/smf/index.php?board=55.0

post there and I am sure you will get an answer, I am not 100% with that model so I cant help you that much.

KIN


----------



## Down boy down (Mar 2, 2006)

*good stuff*



KINBOY said:


> The pic that you have in your question is the race mode where you are racing a virtual partener. I know you can do it, I have the 305, use this site for more info
> 
> http://forums.motionbased.com/smf/index.php?board=55.0
> 
> ...


Thanks for insight. Will check unit upon my return home and hopeful ride after work.


----------



## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

Kinboy,
Forgive me, I am new to this tech stuff and was wondering about the motionbased. You can go on a ride with the 205/305 and come home and download your ride overlaid on a map? Can you edit it and name trails on the map? By the way, your link to your motionbase is dead.


----------



## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

Ok, first off I wasn't happy with the Garmin original bike mount. I found these holders from RAM and the good news is that they selly you separate parts so you can go with a do-it-yourself mount.
GPSCity.com has all kinds of mounts and accessories.
I ordered the basic plastic mount for my GPS model and then I had to figure out how to mount on the stem.

From my local hardware store I got a steel plate 2"x2" and a formed plate for 1" pipe (you have to spend a little time there to find the right parts) both steinless steel.
With that I fastened the mount to the flat plate and used the formed plate to create a clamp. The result is in the picture. For extra precaution the lanyard is tied around the mount, just in case (my old Magellan had a similar mount and in a couple occasion it got jettisoned  ) 
I'll try to get another pic from the bottom to give the idea.

I'm trying to improve this to get a better solution, but so far it works although not extremely sexy 
ZT


----------



## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

indyfab25 said:


> Kinboy,
> Forgive me, I am new to this tech stuff and was wondering about the motionbased. You can go on a ride with the 205/305 and come home and download your ride overlaid on a map? Can you edit it and name trails on the map? By the way, your link to your motionbase is dead.


yes thats right, you don't need motion base. the software that comes with the unit will do it or the garmin topo map also


----------



## KINBOY (May 23, 2004)

http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/...&unitSystemPkValue=1&episodePk.pkValue=570188
Here is a new link that is fresh, should be okay for a couple days

You can also use google earth if you have it to overlay and if the link works use the player (tab in the top right on that page)

KIN

there is a new link, should work for a couple days


----------



## XRAYO (Aug 8, 2005)

Here's a fantastic price on the Garmin Edge 305 Bundle in the MTBR Classifieds. Great deal from a great guy. I know the seller - I got mine here.


----------



## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

*Okay, Dumb question time...*

Yes I would like to have one of these toys. No, I don't need to spend that much money. I don't know if I need/want mapping.

What I want is an accurate way to measure amount of climbing down on each ride. It might be nice to see a graphic (like on OLN for the tour) that shows elevation along the route traveled.

Does that mean I need a GPS? Or is there a much simpler cycle computer that will do that?


----------



## Hairylegzz (Mar 27, 2006)

*My 2 cents*

I have had the edge 305 since early March. At first it was sweeet! no problems, with the unit or Motion Based. But now the display shows a battery fully charged, but when turned on the thing is teetering on near death.:madman: Motion Based is great, when it isn't taking forever to load. I know they are, "working on it," and I plan to stay a customer, but it's not always roses and champgne....:skep:


----------



## roseyscot (Sep 19, 2004)

I''ve been using the 305 for about 4 weeks. I must say I am severely underimpressed. I bought it from REI (because they stand behind everything they sell) which meant I had to get the cadence/HR bundle. Here are my gripes:
1. It takes 2-3 minutes to link to sattelites. My buddies love standing in place with me while it loads.
2. The battery definitely does not last 12 hours (more like 6-7), even without the HR and cadence.
3. It should automatically stop calculating average speed when you are going zero miles an hour.
4. The included software is lame.
5. Mac compatibility is minimal (plus after spending $450, I don't have money left to buy a whole new computer operating system just to link to the Mac).

Maybe I expected too much, but I think for the same kind of money, you can get much more enjoyment out of a new shock or even some other gadget. Maybe next season they'll improve upon the 305, but for now I'll take my $450 back.


----------



## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Sorry to hear of your frustrations with the Edge 305...

Your post sounds a little like "sour grapes" for several reasons:

1) When I turn on my Edge 305 in the garage under the roof with the door closed and nary a window nearby, it takes all of maybe 10-20 seconds to lock and ride. My buddies don't even know I'm "in process" because there isn't any wait time at all.
2) Battery life is dependent on several things like data capture settings and temperature. The stated rating is under optimal conditions. Reasonableness prevails. If you want instructions on building a battery extender, PM me and I'll share one with you.
3) Zero miles per hour is part of average speed if you are stopped. If you want to stop logging, stop the unit. It's a single button click to start and stop logging. No big deal.
4) Assuming you are on a Mac, the included Training Center software is totally "lame" as it does not run on a Mac - at all. There are several alternative solutions to using Training Center, however. PM me and I will help you.
5) Garmin has promised Mac compatibility in '06. Motionbased already supports Mac via a Safari plug-in which works very very well. This was no secret - ever.

I've been involved in the sale of many hundreds of Garmin Edge 305's and have yet to see anyone wanting a return. I frequently talk to buyers, have sold multiple units to various riding clubs around the country, and, truly, everyone is thrilled. 

Take care!

GeoMan

PS. If anyone wants help with their Edge, PM me and I'd be glad to help you out. I've logged well over 1000 miles on mine so far.


----------



## KINBOY (May 23, 2004)

I have yet to have mine take over 1 min to start up, not sure why your is taking so long. 

After hearing gripes I tested my battery and got 10 hours out of it, which is more than enough for most rides. 

Set up the auto stop and it will fix the average speed calculation. Its the same as a normal computer in that you have the choice to set it to auto stop or not. 

I agree with training center BUT motion based which comes with it is AWESOME!

As for the mac thing I know they do have it working on mac's and really they wanted to cover the 90% of computers first then attacked the mac's. 


Just my thoughts


----------



## roseyscot (Sep 19, 2004)

KINBOY said:


> I have yet to have mine take over 1 min to start up, not sure why your is taking so long.
> 
> After hearing gripes I tested my battery and got 10 hours out of it, which is more than enough for most rides.
> 
> ...


I definitely feel a bit of buyer's remorse. I won't deny that. I guess for the premium that I paid, I expected more bells and whistles as well as more reliability.

I live in an urban area, but that shouldn't impact the signal aquisition. It honestly takes 3-4 minutes each time I turn it on. I'll try some other settings to get more battery life, but if I'm doing a 140 mile ride, I don't want to be weary of the battery failing before I finish riding.

The Mac compatibility is only available for the newest operating system. Given Apple's tendency to update the operating system so frequently, it's disappointing that Garmin/MotionBased didn't take this into account and allow compatibility for previous versions (it's only 8-10 months out of date).

I'll have to review the settings again and maybe I can find more ideal performance once I modify them. I would warn people if they have doubts to either borrow a friend's unit or buy from someone who offers a money back guarantee.


----------



## acrylucs (Feb 18, 2006)

This may not be a product you guys use, but since I sail a lot, i want to get the Rino 130. Its the version with the two way radio and loads of bells and whistles. anyone used one/sell one? any gripes?


----------



## ken830 (Apr 18, 2006)

acrylucs said:


> This may not be a product you guys use, but since I sail a lot, i want to get the Rino 130. Its the version with the two way radio and loads of bells and whistles. anyone used one/sell one? any gripes?


I just got a Rino 130 yesterday.. This thing rocks! But I just starting to try to figure out how to mount it to the bike...


----------



## ken830 (Apr 18, 2006)

thinking about this:

http://www.gpscity.com/item-ram/rap274ga8.htm


----------



## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

ken830 said:


> thinking about this:
> 
> http://www.gpscity.com/item-ram/rap274ga8.htm


why mount it to the bike at all, just get a cell phone pocket for your camelback and attach it to the strap, then its right there if you need it and out of harms way


----------



## ken830 (Apr 18, 2006)

For urban riding, the Garmin will be used to help me navigate unfamiliar streets... Can't see the screen when it's on my shoulder strap...


----------



## slowride (Jan 13, 2004)

dan0 said:


> why mount it to the bike at all, just get a cell phone pocket for your camelback and attach it to the strap, then its right there if you need it and out of harms way


I was wondering about this also... can I turn the GPS on and just leave it in my Camelbak, and expect it to work OK? I don't want to look at it while I ride, only after...


----------



## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

slowride said:


> I was wondering about this also... can I turn the GPS on and just leave it in my Camelbak, and expect it to work OK? I don't want to look at it while I ride, only after...


I don't see why not, I like having it handy so I can mark a waypoint if I need to, but I dont need to watch it while I ride


----------

