# When Shivers smoke crack and do steroids!



## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

Pretty damn burly!

Any one know about these? I think they "look" pretty damn cool.

8 inches travel, inverted, 40mm stanchions! Under 7.8 lbs!

check out the site

http://www.x-fusion-shox.com/


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## scabrider (Oct 3, 2004)

i saw that. they look nice but i'm not sure the looks match the preformance...


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

It's an upside down fork, like the shiver, right?


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2007)

looks good, but like everyone is going to think.. will it perform/ last?


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

didn't X-fusion produce some shady rear shocks in the past that sucked?

wonder if they aren't upping the game.

I would try one of their forks if I had tons of money just sitting around.

If they sell for cheaper than Zokes + RS, and hold up decently along with perform well, then I would expect them to have a good prouct in the future.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

it won't be as smooth as a Shiver because it has a air in one leg.........that how it is so lite, but I wonder what it would be like

FYI.........Marzocchi is introducing a new fork at Sea Otter......... go look at it......will but a heavy damper on Fox 40 sales (I quarantee that)...it is insane....*I am not allowed to say more so don't ask*


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## DeepSouthBuilder (Jan 4, 2007)

No Marz's new fork is not inverted. They've been leaking info for about a year now.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> it won't be as smooth as a Shiver because it has a air in one leg.........that how it is so lite, but I wonder what it would be like
> 
> FYI.........Marzocchi is introducing a new fork at Sea Otter......... go look at it......will but a heavy damper on Fox 40 sales (I quarantee that)...it is insane....*I am not allowed to say more so don't ask*


Actually thats just the air model. They have a pure coil one too!

I've heard Marzocchi is coming out with stuff for 08 that is supposed to take on Fox and RS and tear them a new one!

Marzocchi really had the market cornered until RS came along with the New Line of Motion Control forks. Everyone and their grandma has a MC Boxxer these days for DH.
I think Marzocchi had a lot of technology up their sleeves and is being forced to bring all out in this recent technology war.


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## xKREDx (Aug 8, 2006)

looks sweet.... haven't seen any body with one tho


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## dirtydownhill (Aug 11, 2006)

x fusion might be an up-and-comer, i heard theyve picked up some good riders. it looks pretty nasty, i too wonder about the air if its only in one leg


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

Isnt Black Market on XFusion this year? Saw a blurb somewhere. I get the impression that they are really pushing to become a major suspension brand and be mentioned in the same vane as the 'top 3' (or ost visible 3)


MY impression is they're a cheesy brand trying to climb up. IMHO a name like 'X-Fusion' is a ticket to remaining perceived as junk. JUST MHO!

I still think 'Rock Shox' is pretty cheesy tho - but no where NEAR as cheesy as 'X-Fusion'

Gnarbot..


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## markseelos805 (Oct 23, 2004)

DeepSouthBuilder said:


> No Marz's new fork is not inverted. They've been leaking info for about a year now.


I love marzocchi but can the new fork really be _that_ much better than the 888rc2x or fox 40?


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## DeepSouthBuilder (Jan 4, 2007)

Yep Black Mrkt just signed with them.
They might be an up-and-comer but they need to build a LOT of cred to be anywhere near Marz, Fox, or RS. 
Huck Banzai: Are those the "big three" you were talking about? IMO Manipoo has fallen behind big time.
RS is far from cheesy IMO and the last RS I owned was a Psylo (total crap).


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Yes, I have a Delta fork.*

It's a fine piece of crapmanship from RST that was a recall replacement for my original Hi-5. Does anyone even remember the old Hi-5? Somehow the name Delta just didn't have the panache of the Hi-5. Ahhhh...the good old days.


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## DeepSouthBuilder (Jan 4, 2007)

markseelos805 said:


> I love marzocchi but can the new fork really be _that_ much better than the 888rc2x or fox 40?


I don't know anything about it but I saw some REALLY early pics. I haven't heard them mentioned in the same conversation but word has it they are working on a higher-flow (more sensitive) version of the RC2 cartridge. Wouldn't surprise me if they were the same project.


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## matt (Feb 2, 2004)

Huck Banzai said:


> Isnt Black Market on XFusion this year? Saw a blurb somewhere. I get the impression that they are really pushing to become a major suspension brand and be mentioned in the same vane as the 'top 3' (or ost visible 3)
> 
> MY impression is they're a cheesy brand trying to climb up. IMHO a name like 'X-Fusion' is a ticket to remaining perceived as junk. JUST MHO!
> 
> ...


They aren't a cheesy brand. I'm not sure what difference their name makes? Sure it sounds like a Wal Mart brand, but it isn't. Once more people get on them they will lose their cheesiness.

I'm pretty sure a few of the people from X-Fusion are former Fox employees, atleast their engineer is.

Their new stuff is awesome. The Vector DH2 comes stock with a TI spring, and from what I hear rides very well. (I will be on one this year)

Plus, they're dumping money into races to help push racing.


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## Phi.Design (Jun 30, 2006)

ooooh. I want info on this new bomber lineup!


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

I dont know about marzocchi tearing fox and RS a new one. because a 40 would LOOK good on my bike. thats one of the reasons it will stay a fav. plus, fox has been good to me. marz hasn't. so no matter what marz comes out with, I probably wont buy it. not new at least.


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## dirtydownhill (Aug 11, 2006)

Theres a good chance youre right DeepSouthBuilder. I dont have any experience with them but was just regurgitating info.


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## dusthuffer (Nov 30, 2006)

They're from Los Gatos so they can't be cheesy 



Huck Banzai said:


> Isnt Black Market on XFusion this year? Saw a blurb somewhere. I get the impression that they are really pushing to become a major suspension brand and be mentioned in the same vane as the 'top 3' (or ost visible 3)
> 
> MY impression is they're a cheesy brand trying to climb up. IMHO a name like 'X-Fusion' is a ticket to remaining perceived as junk. JUST MHO!
> 
> ...


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

markseelos805 said:


> I love marzocchi but can the new fork really be _that_ much better than the 888rc2x or fox 40?


the fork is going to be better then the 888(FYI...it is not inverted)


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## Tim F. (May 22, 2006)

dusthuffer said:


> They're from Los Gatos so they can't be cheesy


Actually their from Cambell, they just relocated from Santa Cruz.

If they were from Los Gatos it would look all metro-sexual, stink of expresso, be way overpriced, and would only be rated for highly groomed trails, no rocks larger than a marbel.:nono:


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## dd13 (Oct 6, 2005)

if its inverted your after,go white brothers,im ordering mine once i get the rest of my money together!!!!


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

DeepSouthBuilder said:


> No Marz's new fork is not inverted. They've been leaking info for about a year now.


Uhh DSB, I was talking about the X-Fusion fork on the top...

Speaking of Marzocchi, I wonder what the new fork for Marzo be? will the new technology be accross the board from the Corsas to the 888s?


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

matt said:


> They aren't a cheesy brand. I'm not sure what difference their name makes? Sure it sounds like a Wal Mart brand, but it isn't. Once more people get on them they will lose their cheesiness.
> 
> I'm pretty sure a few of the people from X-Fusion are former Fox employees, atleast their engineer is.
> 
> ...


I dont mean the forks are cheesy - I mean the name 'Rock Shox' is cheesy!

But not as cheesy as 'X Fusion'

Might as well call them 'Galactic-Turbo-Masters'


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## DHS (Jan 14, 2004)

Huck Banzai said:


> I dont mean the forks are cheesy - I mean the name 'Rock Shox' is cheesy!
> 
> But not as cheesy as 'X Fusion'
> 
> Might as well call them 'Galactic-Turbo-Masters'


Galactic-Turbo-Masters, now thats a cool name


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## Rapier (Feb 15, 2006)

Inverted forks make me be horny!!!!!

Marzocchi should make again a "new shiver", because inverted forks has much less pending weight than a conventional fork, and that make a fork to "draw" the terrain much better. I also would like to test the Risse The Champ fork:


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## fer83 (Jan 7, 2007)

Rapier said:


> Inverted forks make me be horny!!!!!
> 
> Marzocchi should make again a "new shiver", becaus inverted forks has much less pending weight than a conventional fork, and that make a fork to "draw" the terrain much better. I also would like to thest the Risse The Champ fork:


whatever the forum I'm watching, whatever the oficial language is, there are you and your insane bicycle inverted fork pr0n. This is sick... :thumbsup:


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## hardcore newbie (Nov 6, 2004)

if you all pay for one ill be the test dummy


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## saviorself (Dec 15, 2004)

X-fusion is definately up and coming. look at alot (if not most) of euro freeride bikes. The all have the rear shocks


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

SpawningGround said:


> Actually thats just the air model. They have a pure coil one too!
> 
> I've heard Marzocchi is coming out with stuff for 08 that is supposed to take on Fox and RS and tear them a new one!
> 
> ...


Good to all of the above. Marzocchi has always allowed me to "let my parts do their job" & not worry about it. It's good for them to feel the other manf's nippin' at their heels. I say "take us up a notch or two"!! Shoot Far !!! Marz ought to jack it way up and give "them" something to shoot for.


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## Rapier (Feb 15, 2006)

fer83 said:


> whatever the forum I'm watching, whatever the oficial language is, there are you and your insane bicycle inverted fork pr0n. This is sick... :thumbsup:


:lol:


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## DeepSouthBuilder (Jan 4, 2007)

suicidebomber said:


> Speaking of Marzocchi, I wonder what the new fork for Marzo be? will the new technology be accross the board from the Corsas to the 888s?


The truth is nobody outside the factory knows yet what's up with it, not even their pros. There are some pics floating around though. They been talking it up pretty big supposedly.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

DeepSouthBuilder said:


> The truth is nobody outside the factory knows yet what's up with it, not even their pros. There are some pics floating around though. They been talking it up pretty big supposedly.


*as far as you know*.........the pros have been riding the new fork for over 3 months that I personally know of.....could be a lot longer...I estimate 6months to a year


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## DeepSouthBuilder (Jan 4, 2007)

hmm.....interesting
shouldn't be THAT hard to find new pictures then

I don't suppose you'll tip us off as to which pros. Unless it's disguised (probably is) Cedric is still rocking an 888.


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## Znarf (Nov 12, 2005)

I think the x-fusion on the picture is really a BIONICON fork. It´s a small german company which makes really innovative bikes.
Take a look at their site, the "Supershuttle" and the "Ironwood" use this fork. Some of their parts are based on Suntour DC forks, but with different internals. And they all have this handle bar travel adjust (the orange knob), the travel adjust does also heighten the rear shock btw.

Most people who have tried the new fork over here in europe are pretty stoked. The more advanced shocks from x-fusion get REALLY good reviews over here btw. The cheaper ones are not as good though.

Greetings Znarf


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## fergyrock (Apr 22, 2005)

Znarf said:


> I think the x-fusion on the picture is really a BIONICON fork. It´s a small german company which makes really innovative bikes.
> 
> Some of their parts are based on Suntour DC forks, but with different internals
> 
> ...


Znarf is correct about it being a BIONICON fork its the Special Agent. Bionicon designed it and partnered up with X-fusion/A-Pro to build it. I have been using them for almost a year and the durability is great and maintanance is easy, you can do it yourself.

Suntour DC, this is the same type of partnership as with X-fusion but with Suntour, that fork is the Double Agent.

The BIONICON button connects the fork to an adapter mounted on the rear shock, when you hold the button down and lean forward it transfers air from the fork into the adapter, extending it to change the head angle dramatically to position you better for climbing, maintains BB height as well.

The X fusion air shocks are great, I have A LOT of experience with them over the last 2 1/2 years, the failure % is MUCH lower than any of the other brands I have experience with. Failures usually occurs when set up way to soft, the damping will blow with excessive bottom outs, but no air chamber failures yet, even on the cheap ones. FYI they are making the new Specialized rear shocks, which says someting for the brand.


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## mtnbykr06 (Mar 22, 2006)

I kinda helped build that bike. When my buddy was riding for them last year, they were designing the fork, and I had some input to what went into it. Like the travel adjust, the Coil with Air assist, the integrated stem, and if I remember right, the steering damping system. I also told him to tell them to put in Dual seals so when one blows, you have a back up. So you can go to a race without having to replace your seals if they blow. But from what I know, they didn't do that.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

DeepSouthBuilder said:


> hmm.....interesting
> shouldn't be THAT hard to find new pictures then
> 
> I don't suppose you'll tip us off as to which pros. Unless it's disguised (probably is) Cedric is still rocking an 888.


yes it is disguised but you have to look at it close


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## DeepSouthBuilder (Jan 4, 2007)

Cedric's fork from the Brazil urban DH has different crowns and the stancions gets larger between the crowns. It has the same lowers though.


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## mtnbykr06 (Mar 22, 2006)

Anyone got pictures??


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## DeepSouthBuilder (Jan 4, 2007)

mtnbykr06 said:


> Anyone got pictures??


I can't find any good pictures but the video in this link shows it pretty clearly in the beginning.

http://espnbrasil.uol.com.br/planetaexpn/?id_programa=19&id_video=50&vercolunista=0#a_video


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

DeepSouthBuilder said:


> Cedric's fork from the Brazil urban DH has different crowns and the stancions gets larger between the crowns. It has the same lowers though.


you are very close


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## mtnbykr06 (Mar 22, 2006)

That looks pretty badass. Looks like it has some decent size stantions.


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## DeepSouthBuilder (Jan 4, 2007)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> you are very close


My next guess is slightly different lowers and larger stanchions.
I guess it's not the fork I've seen pics of unless it went a completely different direction.
This should be it's own thread.


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## Rapier (Feb 15, 2006)

I Want An Inverteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

DeepSouthBuilder said:


> My next guess is slightly different lowers and larger stanchions.
> I guess it's not the fork I've seen pics of unless it went a completely different direction.
> This should be it's own thread.


and lighter then a fox 40


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## Znarf (Nov 12, 2005)

So any idea how much the Special Agent fork will cost?

Greetings Znarf


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## JKWITS (May 8, 2006)

*Rst*

So what about this fork. Came across it on a different forum and it was being talked up. Its hard to see past the RST badge but does anyone have any experience with it?


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## mtnbykr06 (Mar 22, 2006)

JKWITS said:


> So what about this fork. Came across it on a different forum and it was being talked up. Its hard to see past the RST badge but does anyone have any experience with it?


Besides the fact that it looks cool?? I don't believe that thing will perform. Maybe though..:skep:

*R*_eally _*S*_hitty _*T*_ravel_


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## crashomatic (Jan 16, 2006)

*neat looking but.....*

they should call it the STIGMA, because thats what is attached to rst forks.


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## fergyrock (Apr 22, 2005)

Znarf said:


> So any idea how much the Special Agent fork will cost?
> 
> Greetings Znarf


Special Agent Fork is only offered on the Bionicon Ironwood the reason for this is the adjustable travel works the best with the complete Bionicon System. I am not discounting the how well it works on its own though.

Price on The IW as a complete is $4910 or a Framekit for $3490 which comes assembled with frame, fork, Shock, HS, Handlebar, Stem, Frt Hub, Seat-post and Clamp.

I think the X Fusion Delta 8 with the Bionicon Adjustable cartridge runs about $1400-1500 for the fork, stem and Hub, but I'm not certain.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

SpawningGround said:


> Pretty damn burly!
> 
> Any one know about these? I think they "look" pretty damn cool.
> 
> ...


Wow, 10mm more travel, 5mm bigger stanchions and half a pound lighter than a shiver. So flat out impressive that I just crapped my pants.

What will they think of next?

I've used the shiver, and save avalache forks that I haven't tried, I haven't found anything that's really "plusher" or absorbs bumps better, except for a Monster T which is comparable, but stiffer obviously. Except for the obvious disadvantage of being inverted (will never be as rigid as a comparable standard fork), I'd stick with the shiver, and i'd advise anyone to do the same. Everybody gets hyped up about the other forks that never measure up, like the dorado, the white brothers, and so on. Either crap damping systems, or crap lubrication systems, or a combination of both.

Lastly, if you can't adjust the oil level in the oil-bath and increase the progresiveness, then it's just flat out dumb. Flat out dumb = a downhill/freeride product with a "fixed" amount of progresion.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Rapier said:


> Marzocchi should make again a "new shiver", because inverted forks has much less pending weight than a conventional fork


No, not if you do the math and add up stuff like the dropouts, oil in the bottom of the fork, lower internals, fork guards, and so on. Standard fork lowers made of magnesium or cast aluminum are VERY light, and account for a fairly small percentage of the total weight. Then add the axle, hub, disc brake caliper, rotor, spokes, nipples, rim, rim strip, DH tube, and tire, and your "unsprung weight difference" with an inverted fork is going to work out to be 5% or so, and so irrelevent that it won't matter.

What's a quarter pound of ~8 pounds? Virtually nill.

You might get better lubrication out of an (well designed with a good oil bath) inverted fork, and IMO that would have a far greater effect on the performance, even if it isn't a huge one. Compared to the "unsprung weight" myth, I think there might at least be something to the improved lubrication.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Wow, 10mm more travel, 5mm bigger stanchions and half a pound lighter than a shiver. So flat out impressive that I just crapped my pants.
> 
> What will they think of next?
> 
> ...


I'd stick with the shiver, and i'd advise anyone to do the same. Everybody gets hyped up about the other forks that never measure up, like the dorado, the white brothers, and so on

truedat


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## xy9ine (Feb 2, 2005)

the whitebros is a fantastic fork. great build quality, excellent tunability, and amazing long term durability. my dh2.0 has been flawless for the three years i've run it. still on the factory seals & wipers, all i've done is clean & lube it yearly. its lighter and stiffer than a shiver to boot. great stuff from a seriously underrated company.


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## dminor (May 15, 2006)

mtnbykr06 said:


> Besides the fact that it looks cool?? I don't believe that thing will perform. Maybe though..:skep:
> 
> *R*_eally _*S*_hitty _*T*_ravel_


Best to not pass judgement on products that you know nothing about. That pict happens to be of my new Sigma. I have owned two others (an 05 X5 and an 06 XT) and they have gotten nothing but better. Structurally, they are far more rigid than a Shiver. Those stanchions are 36mm; bushing overlap is pretty good and the uppers are mega-stiff. Damping is through an o-ring sealed cartridge in the right leg. Everything else is lubed with fork grease - - so in other words, none of the usual oil-leakage problems that open-bath inverteds experience.

RST also makes a 7" rightside-up fork called the R1. I ran this half of last season and got ninth at the Masters Worlds at Sun Peaks on it:


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

dminor said:


> Best to not pass judgement on products that you know nothing about. That pict happens to be of my new Sigma. I have owned two others (an 05 X5 and an 06 XT) and they have gotten nothing but better. Structurally, they are far more rigid than a Shiver. Those stanchions are 36mm; bushing overlap is pretty good and the uppers are mega-stiff. Damping is through an o-ring sealed cartridge in the right leg. Everything else is lubed with fork grease - - so in other words, *none of the usual oil-leakage problems that open-bath inverteds experience.*
> 
> RST also makes a 7" rightside-up fork called the R1. I ran this half of last season and got ninth at the Masters Worlds at Sun Peaks on it:


So how many people have lots of oil leakage problems with shivers?

Secondly, the ONE advantage with a inverted fork that might be tangible: better lubrication, doesn't even come into play on the RST? How laughable.

Wow, the stanchions are 1mm bigger! Holy crap! That must be like an evolutional change or something.

Stiction and wear due to no oil bath...super idea.

Lastly, with no open bath to adjust oil levels, you're stuck at one amount of progression, which is a really crude way to design something that is going to be ridden by more or less agressive riders.

Not really suprising though...


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## erkan (Jan 18, 2004)

Good looks are not everything, as usual!


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## dminor (May 15, 2006)

Jayem said:


> . . . a really crude way to design something that is going to be ridden by more or less agressive riders.


Since I'm sure you've never ridden one I'm not going to waste my time on a point-by-point with you. I wouldn't call the design crude. The cicuitry inside the cartridge is actually quite good. Simple would be a better way to characterize it - - and surprisingly effective for how simple and maintenance-free it is.


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## bElliott (Jul 7, 2006)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> I'd stick with the shiver, and i'd advise anyone to do the same. Everybody gets hyped up about the other forks that never measure up, like the dorado, the white brothers, and so on
> 
> truedat


thats why when dorados and shivers were in thier prime

everyone raced shivers:thumbsup:


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

bElliott said:


> thats why when dorados and shivers were in thier prime
> 
> everyone raced shivers:thumbsup:


I see a lot more dorados on race photos than shivers.

I personally think TPC+ is very comparable to HSCV. they both feel good. if you havent ridden a dorado then seriously try one, they're pretty sick.

only reason I'm not running a dorado though, is that even though its more a race fork, they are fidgititty inside and need some work to keep running well. also I'm just really not going to trust a carbon fiber DH fork, no matter who makes it.

also it helps, I traded a 05 66VF {that I bought for $200.00} for the 05 shiver. that was just too good of a deal to pass up.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

bElliott said:


> thats why when dorados and shivers were in thier prime
> 
> everyone raced shivers:thumbsup:


Sure, but how many people went out and bought dorados themselves vs. shivers? The only dorados that I've see were OEM ones and ones on race bikes (pictures mostly). Otherwise, lots of shivers, super Ts and boxxers over the years.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

dminor said:


> Since I'm sure you've never ridden one I'm not going to waste my time on a point-by-point with you. I wouldn't call the design crude. The cicuitry inside the cartridge is actually quite good. Simple would be a better way to characterize it - - and surprisingly effective for how simple and maintenance-free it is.


Well, I don't have to ride it to know that a fork that lacks a progression adjustment is worthless to some riders. You can have the best damping in the world, but if you can't adjust the progression then you are left with something that only works for one type of rider in a given situation (like someone who rides smooth, or whatever).


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

todd_freeride said:


> I personally think TPC+ is very comparable to HSCV. they both feel good. if you havent ridden a dorado then seriously try one, they're pretty sick.
> .


In some ways it's better, but without equally good lubrication or chassi, it doesn't mean much.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Ha


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

i don't understand people comparing marzocchi with rock shox, fox. the dampening really isn't comparable. marz does need to up things. 

on the other hand, one might look into the 999 cartridge from mojo, i am not sure if it's back on the market yet, but it's far more advanced than anything you'll see from marzocchi, thats for sure.


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## mtnbykr06 (Mar 22, 2006)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> the fork is going to be better then the 888(FYI...it is not inverted)


Your right, it looks just like the 888. If it is the one that Cedric was running at the Urban Dh in Brazil like everyone says, this would be it:


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