# Love the new 2012 XT brakes



## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

I recently build up a new bike with the 2012 XT brakes, with 160mm Ice Tech rotors. I really like them a lot.

My previous hydro brakes were Elixir CR's. They had plenty of power and generally worked well, but had some issues:
- Lever travel was always too long for my preference, even with the pad contact adjusted to the max and after multiple bleedings.
- Bleeding was a pain in the butt. I used the Avid brake bleed kit with the syringes, but it was still a hassle.
- Getting the calipers adjusted so they didn't drag took a lot of trial and error. The method of squeezing the lever while tightening the bolts didn't work well.
- The front brake chattered and the rear brake made chirping noises.

For the new XT brakes:
- Shortening the hoses was easy and did not require bleeding the brakes.
- Gravity bleeding is simple and easy.
- It's nicer to work with mineral oil than DOT brake fluid.
- The lever travel and feel is perfect for me. At first the levers seemed awfully short but they are actually perfect for 1-finger braking. They can be used for 2-finger braking as well, but seem to be optimized for 1-finger use. The pad contact adjustment doesn't seem to do a whole lot, but it does enough to make the lever travel and pad contact point perfect, and the lever feels very firm after pad contact.
- Caliper adjustment was easy. Tightening the bolts while squeezing the lever worked well.
- No chattering, chirping, squealing, or other wierd noises.


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## j0hn (May 27, 2011)

Nice writeup. Thanks for the comparison. I recently installed a set myself. I have only ridden them once, but couldn't be happier. The feel is better than any other brake I've tried.

I am glad to hear it was easy to shorten the lines. I still need to do that.


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## moosehead (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks gents. Jabrabu, would you mind please describing how you shortened your lines? Did you do so at the lever end? Did you need a new replacement olive and plunger? Anything else?

Much appreciate your input.

EDIT: Note to self, google search it. Below from Shimano site.

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...SI-8JA0A-003-00-ENG_v1_m56577569830750008.PDF


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

I used this procedure to shorten the hoses, and it worked like a champ.
http://bike.shimano.com/publish/con...downloadFile.html/02) Brake Hose Trimming.pdf

The only thing different was when I was finished the lever travel was too short, so I set the levers horizontal and removed the reservoir bleed screw/cap to allow any air and extra fluid to burp out and then reinstalled the bleed screw/cap, and then they were perfect.

The new brakes come with an extra olive and insert in the box for this purpose.


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## Gripo (May 2, 2005)

2 things to watch........if you have the 2012 XT/XTR's

*Hose crimp on the banjo (caliper) ends of the hoses leak 
*Leakage of brake fluid from pistons seal


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## moosehead (Jun 5, 2008)

^Gripo, hopefully the first issue is solved by correctly seating and tightening the banjo or compression nut against the olive, and the latter by not pushing out the pistons too far. I've had this happen on other brakes during bleeds or cable trims and it ended up being operator error (me) for the most part.

Jabrabu, thanks for the trim post, I had seen that but didn't know if it would work on the 2012's without that funky bleed funnel they supposedly have for the lever. I just rigged another clean syringe for bleed overflow from the lever instead as the funnels don't seem to be widely available yet. +rep to you Jabrabu, thanks for this post.


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## Porschefan (Jan 14, 2011)

I've been contemplating a brake upgrade, focusing on the 2012 XT's. Performance seems to have the best deal going on right now:

M785's on Sale

With the 15% off and adding NM sales tax that's ~$118 each for front and rear (plus cost of new rotors).

Is that about as good as it gets for buying new?


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## j0hn (May 27, 2011)

I got mine at Performance during a 15% off sale and the sale did not include Shimano stuff. But I was happy at $130. Best pricing I've seen.


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## kermit_xc (Nov 16, 2007)

j0hn said:


> I got mine at Performance during a 15% off sale and the sale did not include Shimano stuff. But I was happy at $130. Best pricing I've seen.


just ordered mine through universalcycles.com, with 15% (vip15), performance would be: $275 (+sales tax) universal came to $248

--Adam


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## Gripo (May 2, 2005)

^mooshead..these 2 faults are nothing to do with operator error....but genuine manufacturing faults.

*the hose issue has nothing to do with tightening the banjo...it is the factory crimp of the banjo onto the hose that fails....

*i've had 1x set of 2012 XT calipers fail by saturating my brake pads in fluid....no extended piston here....4 rides old
*early this week, "new in box" 2 different sets of XTRs had a caliper each soak the pads in brake fluid....you could see the fluid and air bubbles coming out from the pistons when you squeeze the brake.

I have a set of 2012 XT's that are hanging together that are amazing......but fact is I don't trust'em.

This is a quality control/manufacturing issue!


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## moosehead (Jun 5, 2008)

Gripo said:


> ^mooshead..these 2 faults are nothing to do with operator error....but genuine manufacturing faults.
> 
> *the hose issue has nothing to do with tightening the banjo...it is the factory crimp of the banjo onto the hose that fails....
> 
> ...


My bad then Gripo, was hoping for these to deliver as reviewed, plus just hung a set on my rig. That stinks if these suffer from QC issues.


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## veritechy (Jan 2, 2008)

kermit_xc said:


> just ordered mine through universalcycles.com, with 15% (vip15), performance would be: $275 (+sales tax) universal came to $248
> 
> --Adam


That's a nice deal. Thanks guys. I'm getting one!
BTW, how does it compare to the older XTs? I have a set of older XTs. I like the modulation, but the power is a little lacking.


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## moosehead (Jun 5, 2008)

Gripo, I now see in the XTR air raid siren thread where the rear crimped banjo also is leaking. Guess it will be new Jagwire for brand new brakes. Crap.


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## zenkem (Dec 18, 2007)

veritechy said:


> That's a nice deal. Thanks guys. I'm getting one!
> BTW, how does it compare to the older XTs? I have a set of older XTs. I like the modulation, but the power is a little lacking.


I just switched from the old XT's to the 2012's and have yet to experience brake fade&#8230;Big improvement IMO&#8230;I noticed that I'm moving faster through the technical stuff too, cuz I have more confidence in slowing down faster...


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## veritechy (Jan 2, 2008)

zenkem said:


> I just switched from the old XT's to the 2012's and have yet to experience brake fade&#8230;Big improvement IMO&#8230;I noticed that I'm moving faster through the technical stuff too, cuz I have more confidence in slowing down faster...


Thanks for your feedback! moving faster through the techy stuff is always good:thumbsup:


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## ndwight (Nov 1, 2007)

Hey guys, I just put a set of the new xt brakes on my bike. I shortened the hoses using the recommended method, hoping to not have to bleed them. Now the brakes seem crisp and strong, until I pump the lever rapidly and it engages closer and closer to the bar each time. When I let go for a second the engagement goes back out to the original position. My lbs says they just need to be bled, but I have bled them twice now with no luck. Am I just not getting a good bleed, or is there some other issue? Any suggestions would be appreciated!


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## Casper7 (Apr 10, 2009)

This has been helpful


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## grldm3 (Mar 8, 2011)

ndwight said:


> Hey guys, I just put a set of the new xt brakes on my bike. I shortened the hoses using the recommended method, hoping to not have to bleed them. Now the brakes seem crisp and strong, until I pump the lever rapidly and it engages closer and closer to the bar each time. When I let go for a second the engagement goes back out to the original position. My lbs says they just need to be bled, but I have bled them twice now with no luck. Am I just not getting a good bleed, or is there some other issue? Any suggestions would be appreciated!


Sounds like it's just not getting a good bleed. Either that or you might have a leak somewhere. If it's not leaking one thing that has helped me while bleeding shimano brakes in the past is while squeezing oil into the caliper, tap the caliper lightly on something, this will help force some of the air that might be trapped in a hidden space inside the caliper.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

They are not the easiest brakes to bleed but what you describe is symptomatic of a bad bleed. did you use the Shimano "gravity-style" bleed method or Avid's "push-pull" method?


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## ndwight (Nov 1, 2007)

I first did the shimano gravity style bleed by leaving the plungers out of the avid syringes. That was very messy to do by myself and i decided I needed the shimano kit or a friend to try it that way again. I then did the avid push-pull method, which was much easier and cleaner, but basically same results. Maybe I need to try again as grldmn3 said, taking more time to manipulate and tap the lever and caliper? Thanks for the replies!


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## moosehead (Jun 5, 2008)

*+1*

These might be the best brakes I've used. They have the power and modulation of the Formulas with absolutely zero noise. Nice reach adjust and great 1 finger ergo lever. I'm also just using the basic one-piece Shimano rotors.

I haven't yet trimmed the lines, but plan on doing so at the caliper banjo as preventative measure to avoid Gripo's outcome.


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## Loonytik (Jul 20, 2011)

I'm guessing these don't come as a "set" with the rotors?

Everywhere I look they are missing the rotors, is that correct?


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

Right, the rotors are sold separately.

Mine just started squealing a little bit today during a muddy and damp ride. They still work great, though.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

ndwight said:


> I first did the shimano gravity style bleed by leaving the plungers out of the avid syringes. That was very messy to do by myself and i decided I needed the shimano kit or a friend to try it that way again. I then did the avid push-pull method, which was much easier and cleaner, but basically same results. Maybe I need to try again as grldmn3 said, taking more time to manipulate and tap the lever and caliper? Thanks for the replies!


I usually do both but instead of using gravity, I push the fluid from the lever to the caliper using the syringe for faster oil flow and as such it catches more bubbles. I also do the "push-pull method" but with a single syringe to pull bubbles from the lever. By pulling the lever repeatedly the bubbles migrate into the syringe and you can also pull them out. After a couple of attempts I got my rear XTR bled perfectly.


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## ndwight (Nov 1, 2007)

PissedOffCil said:


> I usually do both but instead of using gravity, I push the fluid from the lever to the caliper using the syringe for faster oil flow and as such it catches more bubbles. I also do the "push-pull method" but with a single syringe to pull bubbles from the lever. By pulling the lever repeatedly the bubbles migrate into the syringe and you can also pull them out. After a couple of attempts I got my rear XTR bled perfectly.


Thanks for the help, I have got them feeling much better now. Do you use an avid syringe? If so, have you had issues with the o ring on the adapter once it hits the mineral oil?


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## ndwight (Nov 1, 2007)

Now that I have the brakes well bled I loved the power and modulation. Lever feels great too.

One thing I don't like is how it pairs with my SRAM shifters. Very bulky looking between the two (compared to my juicy's). Probably done on purpose, and I guess I can't blame shimano for that.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

ndwight said:


> Thanks for the help, I have got them feeling much better now. Do you use an avid syringe? If so, have you had issues with the o ring on the adapter once it hits the mineral oil?


I used the syringe from a Formula kit. I'm not sure what o-ring and adapter you speak of...


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## zenkem (Dec 18, 2007)

PissedOffCil said:


> I used the syringe from a Formula kit. I'm not sure what o-ring and adapter you speak of...


I use a syringe with oil at the caliper (system installed on the bike) to pull the air out of the caliper then push the fluid back into the caliper until the lever reservoir is full...Not sure if this is what your talking about when you say "push/pull"...it's worked perfect with all my Shimano brakes (SLX, XT & 2012 XT). I'm not sure if this is any procedures out there but it's something I came up with that works...


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

zenkem said:


> I use a syringe with oil at the caliper (system installed on the bike) to pull the air out of the caliper then push the fluid back into the caliper until the lever reservoir is full...Not sure if this is what your talking about when you say "push/pull"...it's worked perfect with all my Shimano brakes (SLX, XT & 2012 XT). I'm not sure if this is any procedures out there but it's something I came up with that works...


I do it at the lever, but yes that's what I'm talking about.


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## Once_Upon_A_Time (Aug 13, 2004)

PissedOffCil said:


> I do it at the lever, but yes that's what I'm talking about.


*Sticky this thread maybe?*


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## kermit_xc (Nov 16, 2007)

ndwight said:


> Now that I have the brakes well bled I loved the power and modulation. Lever feels great too.
> 
> One thing I don't like is how it pairs with my SRAM shifters. Very bulky looking between the two (compared to my juicy's). Probably done on purpose, and I guess I can't blame shimano for that.


flip the sram shifter clamp - I had the same issue ... works perfect now


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## UnpavedAttitude (Jul 29, 2010)

*New 2012 Xt brake set MSRP?*

Hi,
I'm thinking to get the new xt br 275 brake set, and I tought the retail price for the brake set was $ 159 ( lever,caliper,adapter) each, but my LBS is telling me that that is an online price.... so what 's the deal?
I was looking on Bluesky and they have it for $ 119.00 ! special what is the real MSRP on this brakes? I want to support my LBS but...
Also can somebody explain to me why the 2011 xt brakes are more expensive than the 2012? what the difference between BR M 785 and BR M 785 ( 2011)?
thanks


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## Porschefan (Jan 14, 2011)

italianbike74 said:


> Hi,
> I'm thinking to get the new xt br 275 brake set, and I tought the retail price for the brake set was $ 159 ( lever,caliper,adapter) each, but my LBS is telling me that that is an online price.... so what 's the deal?
> I was looking on Bluesky and they have it for $ 119.00 ! special what is the real MSRP on this brakes? I want to support my LBS but...


I think your LBS $159 is pretty close to the MSRP for the M 785 brakes. Lever with hydraulics cylinder, caliper. Lots of online stores have this for ~$130....so the Blue Sky deal, which includes ROTORS (RT 75's) is a _smokin' deal _for these brakes if the rotors are OK with you.



> Also can somebody explain to me why the 2011 xt brakes are more expensive than the 2012? what the difference between _BR M 785_ and _BR M 785_ ( 2011)?
> thanks


Typo...????

It's not that unusual for older stuff to cost as much, or more than the latest and greatest.... That said, I don't know what the technical differences are, but the 2012 XT's are supposed to be almost identical to the XTR's, which have generally received rave reviews here and elsewhere.


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

Hey guys, Just got my XT brakes installed, and shortened the lines. The rear went fine, put it all back together and the rear grabbed strong on the first pull. Did the front, and it took a couple lever pulls to get it back up to the firmness before the shortening. Is this normal? seems to be working fine now though.


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## Floyd298 (Jul 23, 2008)

*Leaking Reservoir*

Just installed 2012 xt's on my bike and got a soft pull. If I pump the lever a few times it firms up. After a few pulls I noticed the reservoir is leaking right above the "o" in Shimano. Anyone else have this problem. All the the reservoir screws are tight. Not sure if this is a manufacturing defect and haven't been able to locate a new reservoir seal online. Gonna return for a new set.

Jason


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## ndwight (Nov 1, 2007)

kermit_xc said:


> flip the sram shifter clamp - I had the same issue ... works perfect now


I've tried the levers both ways, just dont seem to match up quite as nicely as the juicy's did. This makes sence though.


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## ndwight (Nov 1, 2007)

Floyd298 said:


> Just installed 2012 xt's on my bike and got a soft pull. If I pump the lever a few times it firms up. After a few pulls I noticed the reservoir is leaking right above the "o" in Shimano. Anyone else have this problem. All the the reservoir screws are tight. Not sure if this is a manufacturing defect and haven't been able to locate a new reservoir seal online. Gonna return for a new set.
> 
> Jason


After I bled my brakes some oil squeezed out of the reservoir on my first few pulls of the lever. It stopped so I didn't worry any more about it. Now I am noticing the leaking above the banjo on the caliper, like others have mentioned. I called shimano on Friday but I guess everyone went to interbike and won't be back until Monday.


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

Floyd298 said:


> Just installed 2012 xt's on my bike and got a soft pull. If I pump the lever a few times it firms up. After a few pulls I noticed the reservoir is leaking right above the "o" in Shimano. Anyone else have this problem. All the the reservoir screws are tight. Not sure if this is a manufacturing defect and haven't been able to locate a new reservoir seal online. Gonna return for a new set.
> 
> Jason


I put my first ride on the new brakes today and I love them, but afterwards I bled the rear because the lever felt softer than the front and now it leaks a tiny bit as described above, right above the O in Shimano on the right hand lever. My levers on both sides also get closer and closer to the bars when repeatedly pulled. Any suggestions on the leaky reservoir? I will be calling shimano tomorrow. I also checked the screws holding the reservoir cap on and they are tight.


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## zenkem (Dec 18, 2007)

Floyd298 said:


> Just installed 2012 xt's on my bike and got a soft pull. If I pump the lever a few times it firms up. After a few pulls I noticed the reservoir is leaking right above the "o" in Shimano. Anyone else have this problem. All the the reservoir screws are tight. Not sure if this is a manufacturing defect and haven't been able to locate a new reservoir seal online. Gonna return for a new set.
> 
> Jason


Had the same problem when I did mine but didn't see a decline in performance so I left it alone and after a couple days of riding it stopped. Still not sure why it was doing it, maybe seepage from reservoir overflow during bleeding, but since the brake was working fine and no fluid was coming out when I pulled the lever I didn't mess with it.


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## Once_Upon_A_Time (Aug 13, 2004)

Nickbm3 said:


> I put my first ride on the new brakes today and I love them, but afterwards I bled the rear because the lever felt softer than the front and now it leaks a tiny bit as described above, right above the O in Shimano on the right hand lever. My levers on both sides also get closer and closer to the bars when repeatedly pulled. Any suggestions on the leaky reservoir? I will be calling shimano tomorrow. I also checked the screws holding the reservoir cap on and they are tight.


keep us updated pls.


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## kermit_xc (Nov 16, 2007)

zenkem said:


> Had the same problem when I did mine but didn't see a decline in performance so I left it alone and after a couple days of riding it stopped. Still not sure why it was doing it, maybe seepage from reservoir overflow during bleeding, but since the brake was working fine and no fluid was coming out when I pulled the lever I didn't mess with it.


same here ... I see the brake fluid "bubble" up above "o" when I cycle the lever - but no issues with performance so far ... will be careful on next few rides. And this is only happening on the front brake - no leaks around banjo so far.


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

I am looking for some brakes, but I decided to pass on the XT M785's on sale at Bluesky because of this thread. Can anyone recommend alternatives?

Thanks.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

happyriding said:


> I am looking for some brakes, but I decided to pass on the XT M785's on sale at Bluesky because of this thread. Can anyone recommend alternatives?
> 
> Thanks.


You shoulda ordered them.

a) there are FAR more positive reports on these brakes than negatives

b) they come with a warranty for a reason.


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

I've put a couple hundred miles on mine and they've been great so far (knock on wood).


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

Once_Upon_A_Time said:


> keep us updated pls.


I called shimano today, they gave me the option of filling out warranty forms and sending in the caliper/lever set with a wait of about 1.5-2 weeks turnaround, or go to a local dealer and have them look at it (then shimano would send them necessary parts). I dropped it off tonight and the shop said they would call shimano in the morning with my bike on hand, get whatever is needed on order, then I can take my bike back until parts show up. I took the reservoir cap off last night and Im certain I know how to "fix" the problem, which I will probably do if the new parts are going to take a while.

I'll report what the bike shop tells me tomorrow.


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## ndwight (Nov 1, 2007)

Are they sending you the parts to fix the leaky reservoir, or the levers getting closer and closer to the bars? I called and they told me the lever pumping closer was from a bad bleed, and just told me to do a bunch of things I've already done (techniques already suggested in this thread). I am going to send in my front brake for the leaky banjo, maybe they can get the bleed right for me if that is the real problem.


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

I dont know what they are sending yet. A replacement lever would be my geuss, I think it is a problem with the reservoir bladder not being clamped down tight enough. I agree about the lever getting closer to the bars being a symptom of a bad bleed, but with my reservoir leaking i cant get a good bleed. After i noticed the problem with my rear brake, i didnt even try to bleed the front yet, hopefully the shop will do that while fixing my rear.


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## sq8ijk (Sep 20, 2011)

Ok now about the issue in the 2012 XT brake level - maybe someone got an idea what might be wrong and if this should go straight back to the shop for warranty.

Basically there is a leak in the braking levels (both). I guess it's in one of those three "red dot areas" I don't think it's around green dot as the oil wouldn't go against the gravity.

It's the new XT breaks where the cables had to be shortened and placed on the bike following shimano pdf materials.


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## zenkem (Dec 18, 2007)

OO7 said:


> You shoulda ordered them.
> 
> a) there are FAR more positive reports on these brakes than negatives
> 
> b) they come with a warranty for a reason.


+2 without a doubt, if you're worried 'bout bleeding the brakes properly and leakage take it to your LBS and have them do it for you that way you know you it's done right...or at least you can take it back to them.

I've been riding mine for well over a month and they have saved my arsh more then once...I highly recommend these brakes... :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

Nice write up dude. Glad you're enjoying them. XT and Xtr are both awesome. I got a number of things yesterday, one of which being my 2012 XTR M985/M988 trail brakes. They're awesome.


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## kermit_xc (Nov 16, 2007)

Nickbm3 said:


> I took the reservoir cap off last night and Im certain I know how to "fix" the problem, which I will probably do if the new parts are going to take a while.


what would be the "fix" you mentioned right there


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

Well it may be a little hard to explain but I'll try. I had taken the crhome reservoir cap off to see if the bladder had any tears or visible deformations allowing the leak. The recessed screw in the reservoir cap also clamps down that end of the plate which holds down the bladder, the base of the recess slides over a stub that recieves the screw. When putting the cap back on, and just set in place, I noticed that the base of the recess and the top of the stub are flush, which makes me think when the screw is tightened it cant clamp the plate down properly. I was going to try to find a thin shim to slide over the stub before the cap goes on, giving enough extra material to allow the plate to be clamped down. I think the flaw with the reservoirs that are leaking like this is that the base of the screw recess is just slightly too thin. Hopefully that makes sense, if I try this I will take some pictures.


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## kermit_xc (Nov 16, 2007)

oh yeah ... makes perfect sense, thanks for the info ... will look into that 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

OK, well Shimano is sending my LBS a new caliper/lever set, and should be here in a couple days. I did try my shim idea, and it works, but i couldnt find the exact right size and the chrome lid wouldnt sit correctly, so Im just going to leave it as is until the new parts show up.


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## ndwight (Nov 1, 2007)

I talked to Shimano today, and they said that the fluid seeping from the reservoir after a bleed is a built in blow-off feature. That is why it only happened for a few lever pulls and then stopped. I'm guessing that Nickbm3 and others have fluid constantly leaking, not just right after a bleed?


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

ndwight said:


> I talked to Shimano today, and they said that the fluid seeping from the reservoir after a bleed is a built in blow-off feature. That is why it only happened for a few lever pulls and then stopped. I'm guessing that Nickbm3 and others have fluid constantly leaking, not just right after a bleed?


Yes, mine still leaks, and actually a little more now. Many lever pulls and it hasnt stopped yet.

Cant wait for the new parts, I really liked these brakes ALOT just from the 1 ride I got to use them, and they havent even completely bedded in yet!


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## zenkem (Dec 18, 2007)

ndwight said:


> I talked to Shimano today, and they said that the fluid seeping from the reservoir after a bleed is a built in blow-off feature. That is why it only happened for a few lever pulls and then stopped.


This makes perfect sense...THX for posting!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Gripo (May 2, 2005)

ndwight said:


> I talked to Shimano today, and they said that the fluid seeping from the reservoir after a bleed is a built in blow-off feature. That is why it only happened for a few lever pulls and then stopped. I'm guessing that Nickbm3 and others have fluid constantly leaking, not just right after a bleed?


Huh......WTF, why does XT have the feature and not the XTR.......I call it a leak feature, along with the banjo leak feature and piston leak feature.......


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Gripo said:


> Huh......WTF, why does XT have the feature and not the XTR.......I call it a leak feature, along with the banjo leak feature and piston leak feature.......


XTRs have it...

EDIT: I can't find a confirmation so I might be wrong but I thought the orange (or black) cap at the end of the reservoir (close to the lever blade) contains the overflow port. Maybe someone can confirm.


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

italianbike74 said:


> Hi,
> I'm thinking to get the new xt br 275 brake set, and I tought the retail price for the brake set was $ 159 ( lever,caliper,adapter) each, but my LBS is telling me that that is an online price.... so what 's the deal?
> I was looking on Bluesky and they have it for $ 119.00 ! special what is the real MSRP on this brakes? I want to support my LBS but...
> Also can somebody explain to me why the 2011 xt brakes are more expensive than the 2012? what the difference between BR M 785 and BR M 785 ( 2011)?
> thanks


Thanks for the heads up, I ordered f/r sets. The included rotors are not Ice Tech, but I didn't want the aluminum core anyway. It only saves a little weight and I can't believe that it makes the brakes run any cooler. And that German magazine was able to get the aluminum core hot enough to melt while riding.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

presslab said:


> And that German magazine was able to get the aluminum core hot enough to melt while riding.


Their numbers we're wrong FWIW. They said they heated them up to some number which was under the melting temp for aluminum... and they pretend they melted the core

Just saying.


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

PissedOffCil said:


> Their numbers we're wrong FWIW. They said they heated them up to some number which was under the melting temp for aluminum... and they pretend they melted the core
> 
> Just saying.


Did they specifiy where they measured the brake's temperature? They probably didn't measure it right at the aluminum core of the rotor. I'm sure the temperature varies greatly depending on where it is measured.

I don't mean to start a debate, but they stated that the rotor deformed and short of calling them a liar, that fact is indisputable.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

presslab said:


> Did they specifiy where they measured the brake's temperature? They probably didn't measure it right at the aluminum core of the rotor. I'm sure the temperature varies greatly depending on where it is measured.
> 
> I don't mean to start a debate, but they stated that the rotor deformed and short of calling them a liar, that fact is indisputable.


The rotor warped, like steel rotors warp. It doesn't mean the core melted.


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

That's the point, the Ice Tech ones warped, the all steel ones did not.

The temperature argument is only valid if it was measured at the rotor core, which I doubt it was.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

presslab said:


> That's the point, the Ice Tech ones warped, the all steel ones did not.
> 
> The temperature argument is only valid if it was measured at the rotor core, which I doubt it was.


Many people including me have warped all steel rotors. They are far from immune from warping. I seriously don't believe this can be a side effect of the alu core.

Usually, warping occurs when there a quick changes in temperature on the rotor, like going through water after a descent.

BTW, the idea of an aluminum core of for heat dissipation, not weight reduction.


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

PissedOffCil said:


> Many people including me have warped all steel rotors. They are far from immune from warping. I seriously don't believe this can be a side effect of the alu core.
> 
> Usually, warping occurs when there a quick changes in temperature on the rotor, like going through water after a descent.
> 
> BTW, the idea of an aluminum core of for heat dissipation, not weight reduction.


I'm not sure if you read the article or not, but my understanding is that they "deformed" the Ice Tech rotors and subsequently replaced them with standard rotors. After this, the rotors did not deform but they were still unhappy with the overall performance. It's in German though, so there may be something lost in translation.

I'm not saying it's impossible to warp steel rotors either. Please don't attack straw-man arguments.

I don't see how the very small surface area of the aluminum core exposed has a significant effect on heat dissipation. The exposed stainless steel has many orders of magnitude larger surface area. Shimano does say the Ice Tech technology has 100% better heat dissipation, the finned pads must contribute to the majority of this claim.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

presslab said:


> I'm not sure if you read the article or not, but my understanding is that they "deformed" the Ice Tech rotors and subsequently replaced them with standard rotors. After this, the rotors did not deform but they were still unhappy with the overall performance. It's in German though, so there may be something lost in translation.
> 
> I'm not saying it's impossible to warp steel rotors either. Please don't attack straw-man arguments.


A single occurence of a rotor warping is not enough to conclude that the design is weak. Yet the article made it sound the IceTech rotors we're badly designed and could not deal with the rigors of a proper ride. All I'm saying is that it's a fast judgement to say so.



presslab said:


> I don't see how the very small surface area of the aluminum core exposed has a significant effect on heat dissipation. The exposed stainless steel has many orders of magnitude larger surface area. Shimano does say the Ice Tech technology has 100% better heat dissipation, the finned pads must contribute to the majority of this claim.


I don't disagree that it sounds a little too magic given the small amount of aluminum exposed. The properties of aluminum need to be taken into account however. Aluminum has the benefit of staying cool even at very high temperatures so it will actually cool down the steel portion of the rotor, not only serve as a heat sink.

You mentioned: "It only saves a little weight and I can't believe that it makes the brakes run any cooler. And that German magazine was able to get the aluminum core hot enough to melt while riding." so I felt it needed to be set straight. They did not MELT the core, that would have meant that the aluminum portion of the rotor would have become liquid and been sprayed all over the place. That NEVER happened, do not spread false information. As for cooling, it's sure that it does a difference, but it might not be considerable and I do not believe it is.

FWIW, I did not buy the IceTech rotors, I have the RT-76 and I have never experienced brake fade. It's more a matter of braking technique than anything else if you ask me.


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## kermit_xc (Nov 16, 2007)

PissedOffCil said:


> I don't disagree that it sounds a little too magic given the small amount of aluminum exposed. The properties of aluminum need to be taken into account however. Aluminum has the benefit of staying cool even at very high temperatures so it will actually cool down the steel portion of the rotor, not only serve as a heat sink.


The conclusion of bike-magazin test was that the ICE-Tech Rotors where not suitable for extended dowhnill sections (field test in the Alps - not just lab), while the aluminium core was used mainly to help dissipate heat from the steel rotors and save few grams - it compromised the overall rotor structure and caused it to be more prone to warping - there is only so much you can save weight in critical components like a brake system is.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

In case you haven't read the orginal German Bike magazine article here's a screenshot, plus Google translation of the summaries: 

_"XTR Race
Full of expectation we longed verarbeitungsqualitat after the new Shimano's flagship, packed with new technologies and high-normal range. But already the fading test in laboratory loving guess no good and brought the aluminum core of the sandwich slices to melt. In practice, further leaks of additional discs melted at-speed on the line.

XTR Trail
Just as with the model xc-melted ice-tec brake discs of the same design in the laboratory test and test-track on our on-demanding in Bolzano, even with the 75-kilo rider. In addition, stepped on the liquid-speed cable connection from the caliper. Up to this point about the father of the brake lever, with impeccable ergonomics and very good control and braking power."_ German Bike magazine

German:

_XTR Race 
Voller Erwartung sehnten wir uns nach dem neuen Shimano-Flaggschiff, vollgepackt mit neuen Technologien und gewohnt hochster verarbeitungsqualitat. Doch bereits der fading-test im labor lieb nichts Gutes erahnen und brachte den Alu-kern der Sandwich-Scheiben zum Schmelzen. In der Praxis schmolzen weitere Discs bei zusatzlicher Undichtig-keit an der Leitung

XTR Trail
Genau wie beim xc-modell schmolzen die baugleichen ice-tec-bremscheiben im labortest und auf unserer an-spruchsvollen teststrecke in bozen, selbst beim 75-kilo fahrer. Zudem trat flussig-keit am leitungsanschluss des sattels aus. Bis zu diesem Punkt uberzeugte die Bremse mit tadelloser hebel-ergonomie und sehr guter dosierbarkeit sowie bremsleistung._ *German Bike magazine*


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

WR304 said:


> In case you haven't read the orginal German Bike magazine article here's a screenshot, plus Google translation of the summaries:


Thank you for posting that. 



PissedOffCil said:


> Aluminum has the benefit of staying cool even at very high temperatures


Wait, it's staying cool even when it's hot? 



PissedOffCil said:


> That NEVER happened, do not spread false information.


Wow such a firm statement! Are you sure you are right?



Bike magazine said:


> _brought the aluminum core of the sandwich slices to melt_


Hmm, would you like to retract your statement? Or would you like to say Bike magazine lies?


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## rapsac (Sep 26, 2004)

The XTR trail+race brakjes were tested in two German mtb magazines, BIKE and Mountain Bike. In BIKE the judgement was as per above scan (leakage at the hose at caliper, just as other forum members have experienced) and melting/damage of the alu core of the ice-tek rotors.
In the other mag, Mountain Bike, they received a "sehr gut" (very good) and were amongst the best brakes tested...

A quick and dirty interpretation:
- Shimano has problems with the SM-BH90 hydraulic hoses (at crimp connector), some are good, some are bad
- BIKE was very tough on the ice-tek rotors (dragging front only brake over 1000 vertical meters on tarmac), the issue will probably never occur in "normal life" use (but other brand rotors did not have a problem with the same test...)

So, I hope Shimano improves the SM-BH90 hose (and changes the product nr on the hose so we know we have a good one) and I personally will use the non ice tek rotors (but would not be afraid to run them).


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

I must admit I love the ergonomics and looks of the Shimano brakes. Always have. But I had problems with my older XT's going squishy and myself and two bike shops, 3 different brake lines/rebuilds and we never got them back to normal. This of course left a sour taste in my mouth. I have now been riding an older set of BB7's for the past 6 months. No comparison! Hydraulics win hands down when it comes to feel and power. But the simplicity of the BB7 still rules supreme imo.

None the less, I am in the market for another set of brakes. I have found that for every brake out there, there are issues. Not to mention an expense on top of it all. What I am looking at now days is a cost to problem ratio that I can live with. When I get that one worked out, I will finally break down and drop the loot on some brakes.

None the less, the XTR's were at the top of my list but now I just don't know anymore. Not that I am worried about their rotors as I won't be using those anyway but I certainly don't want to be dealing with frickn leaking or squishy feel again.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

presslab said:


> Wait, it's staying cool even when it's hot?


Ye alu stays cool even when the ambient temperature is hot. Try it in your oven and report...



presslab said:


> Wow such a firm statement! Are you sure you are right?
> 
> Hmm, would you like to retract your statement? Or would you like to say Bike magazine lies?


Here is the quote : "The "XTR Melt-down" happened firstly at Fade-Test when constant hand force of 115N was applied on brake lever as many times as needed either to reach maximum of 40 cycles or critical temperature of 400*C was gained and test must have been cancelled. Both XTR XC with organic pads and XTR Trail with metalic pads melted the aluminium "core" of their Ice-Tec-Rotors (alu-core seems to be the alu part of rotor?) and disc rotors deformed!"

Take note that alu melts at 600 degrees celcius.

My statement lies in that fact plus if the core melted when riding it would certainly have lead to a catastrophic failure and the rotor disintegrating since nothing would have held both steel sides together. Without more information and proof, I do claim it's ********.

From the quote above, they warped the disc, not melted it.. Yes they are probably more prone to warping since different materials expand at different rates.


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

PissedOffCil said:


> Ye alu stays cool even when the ambient temperature is hot. Try it in your oven and report...
> 
> Here is the quote : "The "XTR Melt-down" happened firstly at Fade-Test when constant hand force of 115N was applied on brake lever as many times as needed either to reach maximum of 40 cycles or critical temperature of 400*C was gained and test must have been cancelled. Both XTR XC with organic pads and XTR Trail with metalic pads melted the aluminium "core" of their Ice-Tec-Rotors (alu-core seems to be the alu part of rotor?) and disc rotors deformed!"
> 
> ...


The thermal conductivity of aluminum is pretty high, meaning that it will conduct heat very well (i.e. it takes a short time for it to become hot, from conduction or convection).

Cooling Fundamentals: Thermal Conductivity - FrostyTech.com

But I agree with you that the aluminum most likely doesn't aid in cooling the rotors down very well. The Al cores need to transmit the heat to the environment (surrounding air) for the rotors to cool down, and there simply isn't enough surface area for this to occur. However, I could see the rotors cooling down faster once the braking has ceased, as the Al will be able to conduct heat more rapidly to the steel.

The rates of thermal expansion are also different for Al and Stainless Steel, so I think they most likely warped the rotors during their heavy braking testing. I also agree that reaching the melting point of Al would likely result in catastrophic failure.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

PissedOffCil said:


> Here is the quote : "The "XTR Melt-down" happened firstly at Fade-Test when constant hand force of 115N was applied on brake lever as many times as needed either to reach maximum of 40 cycles or critical temperature of 400*C was gained and test must have been cancelled. Both XTR XC with organic pads and XTR Trail with metalic pads melted the aluminium "core" of their Ice-Tec-Rotors (alu-core seems to be the alu part of rotor?) and disc rotors deformed!"
> 
> Take note that alu melts at 600 degrees celcius.
> 
> ...


I think something was probably lost in translation between German and English for that magazine review. "Warped" rotor sounds like a more accurate description than "melted" rotor.

A sustained brake disc temperature of 400c (752F) with an aluminium alloy rotor could be enough to soften the metal and warp the rotor significantly. The heating examples given in the link below are for annealing aluminium alloys, in order to bend and shape the metal. They are 343c (650F) and 412c (775F) which is close to the temperature range that the German Bike magazine test was working with and a lot lower than 600c (1112F). Different alloys have different properties so it isn't the same temperature for all aluminium.

TM Technologies - Aluminum Alloys Continued

Have there been any other reports of this problem happening with Shimano Ice Tech rotors besides this single magazine test? That magazine test was quite a while ago now.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

WR304 said:


> Have there been any other reports of this problem happening with Shimano Ice Tech rotors besides this single magazine test? That magazine test was quite a while ago now.


The only report I read was from that magazine. Shimano however did run a batch of tests after reading the mag and said they never reproduced the problem.

I agree there might be something lost in translation but when I read "additional discs melted at-speed on the line" I have to believe they really think the rotor melted and splashed on the brake line... no? I cannot believe this, forgive me people.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

The construction of the Shimano Ice-Tec rotor is a steel - aluminium alloy - steel sandwich. The actual braking surfaces of the rotor are steel.

_"SM-RT81 Ice-Tec rotors give excellent performance and are made from a stainless steel/alloy 3-layer sandwich construction that manages heat while riding.

The clad steel/alloy/steel rotor construction allows heat generated from braking to radiate quickly through the aluminium core achieving surface temperature drops of around 50 deg C. When used with Ice-Tec pads surface temperatures can drop from around 400 to 300 deg C, this provides great improvements in performance all round."_ *Shimano*

Disc Brakes

Velotech.de disc brake test

Maybe the aluminium alloy core was forced out of shape?


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

Thinking a bit more about the aluminum core, I think I have an idea as to how the aluminum helps to reduce the rotor temperature. If one were to take an IR image of the rotor in use, the area just behind the pads (as the rotor turns) would be the highest temperature, due to the localized heating of the pad friction. This would create a higher temperature delta from ambient, allowing the most heat to be dissipated in this area.

Adding the aluminum core will transfer this heat around better, allowing more of the whole rotor to have a higher temperature delta. This will allow more heat to be dissipated from the rotor overall, due to the higher delta.



PissedOffCil said:


> That NEVER happened, do not spread false information


This is a case of shooting the messenger. I have no problem with you refuting what the magazine stated, but you decided to make it personal. Why? I guess you are just pissed off, maybe you should learn to relax. :lol:


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

Well, My warranty replacement lever/caliper came in today! When the shop called to tell me it was in, I asked if I could bring in the old one and swap them, then install the new one myself when i got home. The shop said that Shimano requires warranty replacements to be installed at the dealer. Couple hours later I pick up my bike, and the shop charges me $40 for the install and bleed because Shimano doesnt cover the labor for warranty issues! I payed the shop of course, not their fault, but I will be on the phone with shimano tomorrow.


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## Ray_from_SA (Mar 28, 2005)

Got struck by the leaking ferrule too, only one ride on the brakes and already pissing mineral oil, crazy!
Fortunately my LBS convinced Shimano to completely replace the whole set with a new set.


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## kermit_xc (Nov 16, 2007)

yeah, I got to say ... shimano really dropped the ball when I talk to them, all I could come back with was: "you guys have competition ya know, and thats where my money its going next time ..." I suppose their business model is mainly focused on OEM market ... makes sense, just shitty for us bare end bare mortal consumers

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk


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## ndwight (Nov 1, 2007)

Nickbm3 said:


> Well, My warranty replacement lever/caliper came in today! When the shop called to tell me it was in, I asked if I could bring in the old one and swap them, then install the new one myself when i got home. The shop said that Shimano requires warranty replacements to be installed at the dealer. Couple hours later I pick up my bike, and the shop charges me $40 for the install and bleed because Shimano doesnt cover the labor for warranty issues! I payed the shop of course, not their fault, but I will be on the phone with shimano tomorrow.


That sucks! Shimano wont let you do it yourself and they won't pay to have it done. That's not how warranties are supposed to work!


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

presslab said:


> This is a case of shooting the messenger. I have no problem with you refuting what the magazine stated, but you decided to make it personal. Why? I guess you are just pissed off, maybe you should learn to relax. :lol:


Not making anything personal. I make a point of rectifying erroneous facts stated on public forums. If you felt attacked by my statements it's not my problem.



ndwight said:


> That's not how warranties are supposed to work!


I totally agree, bad customer service!!! There is no way Shimano can tell who installed such a simple system as a brake (or anything on a bike in fact), I would have taken the risk of installing them myself. In fact I always do.


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

I just installed the brakes from BlueSkyCycling. They have the regular pads, not the Ice Tech ones. The lever feel is very nice and firm, the front hose is a bit short, I needed to route it in front of the fork instead of the rear like I had it before. Now I need a zip tie to hold it on instead of the fork mounted hose clip. Overall they seem very nice.



PissedOffCil said:


> I make a point of rectifying erroneous facts stated on public forums.


Good thing you have all the answers! You must be a busy guy.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

presslab said:


> Good thing you have all the answers! You must be a busy guy.


Using cartoons really gives smart *sses credibility...

And then you accuse me of making things personal? I don't remember calling you names or saying anything about you personally.... Care to point that out???

You are one little genius that can't take the fact that he's wrong and spreading false information like a man. (Now that was personal)

Pity pity pity...

The disc core never melted, you we're wrong in saying so, just accept it.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

Nickbm3 said:


> Well, My warranty replacement lever/caliper came in today! When the shop called to tell me it was in, I asked if I could bring in the old one and swap them, then install the new one myself when i got home. The shop said that Shimano requires warranty replacements to be installed at the dealer. Couple hours later I pick up my bike, and the shop charges me $40 for the install and bleed because Shimano doesnt cover the labor for warranty issues! I payed the shop of course, not their fault, but I will be on the phone with shimano tomorrow.


Good for you for covering the shop as you are correct, its not their fault. However, keep us posted on what Shimano says. I'm fairly certain that they should be responsible for warranty related costs, including labor and installation of warranty replacements. There might even be legal standards in your state for this. I know, I know . . . its $40 and NOT worth moaning over, but that's just bad business practice on their part.

I had a friend with a Subaru who blew the engine on a new STI with less than 2K miles on it. Subaru replaced the entire engine under warranty . . . can you imagine if they said "here's the engine . . . you gotta pay to have it installed though."


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## kermit_xc (Nov 16, 2007)

PissedOffCil said:


> Using cartoons really gives smart *sses credibility...
> 
> And then you accuse me of making things personal? I don't remember calling you names or saying anything about you personally.... Care to point that out???
> 
> ...


oh ... there we go ... grown man acting like bunch of little high school cheerleaders. Alright girls, stop arguing - you're both pretty - and go on your bikes now.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

With new equipment I always like to gradually build up confidence first, rather than going out and pushing hard straight away. Today was the first ride with some more sustained descending in and the brakes worked very well. 

These are the first disc brakes I've had that you could really call one finger brakes. The various Avid, Hope and Shimano brakes I've ridden in the past all needed two fingers to slow down safely. I have them setup so that my index finger is just on the edge of the brake lever when braking for maximum leverage. I've been experimenting and currently have the lever reach quite short so that when the brake is applied the lever comes fairly close to the bars. The idea being that that's about where my index finger's maximum grip strength is.

I'm quite happy with one finger braking, the added control of three fingers on the bar is good. One thing I noticed towards the end of the ride (2h40) was that my index finger and forearm muscles were feeling a bit tired, especially in my right hand (front brake is right lever, rear brake is left lever). The effort of braking that would previously have been spead over both the index and middle fingers is concentrated on a single finger now. Even with powerful brakes like these it still takes some effort to slow down from higher speeds. I think I need to do some more forearm and grip strength work.

When you look at how I'm using the brakes whilst descending the peak braking force achieved isn't any higher than in the past with my Hope Tech X2 brakes. The big difference being that it took a firm tug with two fingers on the Hope brake lever compared to a gentle squeeze with one finger on the Shimano brakes in order to slow at the same rate. Peak deceleration of 3 - 3.5 m/s² is about the highest I was managing on descents. That's a rider technique / tyre grip limitation, rather than down to the brakes. Pull the brake levers hard on the flat and you can slow much quicker than that.

If you look at the Shimano braking PDFs linked in post #77 the brakes can theoretically slow you at 6.5 m/s². Deceleration of 6.5 m/s² in practice is probably going to mean flipping the bike or locking the front wheel though. I've never got close to that braking level on a mountain bike.

Shimano braking test 180mm rotor
http://www.shimano.com/publish/cont...ownloadFile.html/Test report XTR M988 180.pdf

.


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Okay, I just paid over $400 at Universal for what I could have had last week for $250 at Blue Sky: a set of XT785's, XT75 180/160 rotors, and adapters. Although I should point out that Universal does sell their front brake with 20mm more length than Bluesky(someone in this thread said their Bluesky front brake line was too short). Will 1000mm be long enough for an XL frame?

So I guess if brake lines are $200/inch, I got a better deal at Universal.


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

happyriding said:


> Okay, I just paid over $400 at Universal for what I could have had last week for $250 at Blue Sky: a set of XT785's, XT75 180/160 rotors, and adapters. Although I should point out that Universal does sell their front brake with 20mm more length than Bluesky(someone in this thread said their Bluesky front brake line was too short). Will 1000mm be long enough for an XL frame?
> 
> So I guess if brake lines are $200/inch, I got a better deal at Universal.


I got mine from universal also, since i wanted 203/180 rotors. The 1000mm line is LONG, I think youll be fine :thumbsup:

Update on my warranty issue:
New lever/caliper set seems to be holding up fine! I did talk to shimano on friday, and they said that it is NOT their policy to require a shop to install warranty parts (so any of you that come across having to use your warranty and want to install it yourself, keep this in mind), and that I could have swapped the brakeset at the shop and install at home myself. Shimano offered to send me a set of pedals to try to take care of me but I have a great set, so I declined, but they did talk to the shop and said they would work with the shops account so they could take care of me. I did end up getting a refund from the LBS with really no fuss, which is good because I wasnt leaving with anything less... I went for a ride friday night and halfway through, the rear caliper (installed by the shop) came loose! It was flopping around in its plane of adjustment :madman: (the bolts didnt back out enough to allow vertical play). Im glad they didnt hesitate with the refund, I really didnt want any kind of confrontation over this, but still with the misinformation regarding warranty and the poor QC of the installation I dont plan on shopping there (and definitely no service to my bike). Im sure this isnt a frequent thing that happens there, but I can work on my own bike and have plenty of other shops around, so its just a personal choice.

Im really glad the new parts are working, because I REALLY like how the brakes perform! Even with only two light rides on them (im sure they havent fully bedded in yet), Im very happy with them, glad I didnt push to return everything and go with another brand.


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

Nickbm3 said:


> I got mine from universal also, since i wanted 203/180 rotors. The 1000mm line is LONG, I think youll be fine :thumbsup:


You would laugh if you saw how high my bars are. The measurement from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of my saddle is 83.5 cm. To get the bars even with the top of my saddle, I used a 20mm spacer on top of my headset, and a 30 degree/110mm stem. Even though the stem is 110mm, it does not have much reach because it points almost straight up! The bars also have 25mm of rise, and with that setup the ends of the bars are exactly equal in height to the top of my saddle(assuming the horizontal lines on the garage door were perfectly level). So my bars are a loooong way from the brakes.

Is a longer brake line easy to obtain in case mine is too short?


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

Universal sells a 1700mm hose kit, $50 though and currently not in stock.


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## AMCAT (Sep 10, 2009)

zenkem said:


> This makes perfect sense...THX for posting!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


Blow off feature..ha ha,I'm sure the guys a shimano tech had a good time making up that line of ********


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

AMCAT said:


> Blow off feature..ha ha,I'm sure the guys a shimano tech had a good time making up that line of ********


Many high end brakes have such a port, I'm not sure what makes you laugh so much. My Formula Mega have this port at the bar clamp and it served me once when I forgot to push the pistons before bleeding...

I haven't seen the XTs in real life yet but it's totally believable they have such a feature...


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## ndwight (Nov 1, 2007)

AMCAT said:


> Blow off feature..ha ha,I'm sure the guys a shimano tech had a good time making up that line of ********


Actually kind of makes sense to me. There is a small hole built into the shell of the reservoir where the fluid leaks, and it only leaks for the first couple of firm pulls after I have bled the system.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

AMCAT said:


> Blow off feature..ha ha,I'm sure the guys a shimano tech had a good time making up that line of ********





PissedOffCil said:


> Many high end brakes have such a port, I'm not sure what makes you laugh so much. My Formula Mega have this port at the bar clamp and it served me once when I forgot to push the pistons before bleeding...
> 
> I haven't seen the XTs in real life yet but it's totally believable they have such a feature...


Yup, the Hope Tech levers have a similar feature.


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## Et tu Tite? (Nov 16, 2010)

kermit_xc said:


> flip the sram shifter clamp - I had the same issue ... works perfect now


Kermit any chance you can post a pic or pics of your bars with that layout? I'm about to get these XTs but want to keep my X9 shifters. I really like the matchmaker concept from SRAM and hate cluttered bars. Getting the XTs is already a compromise - but those CRs just do my head in:madman: - so I'd hate to discover an even more bulky arrangement once I fit them

Thanks


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## kermit_xc (Nov 16, 2007)

Et tu Tite? said:


> Kermit any chance you can post a pic or pics of your bars with that layout? I'm about to get these XTs but want to keep my X9 shifters. I really like the matchmaker concept from SRAM and hate cluttered bars. Getting the XTs is already a compromise - but those CRs just do my head in:madman: - so I'd hate to discover an even more bulky arrangement once I fit them
> 
> Thanks


I sure will take some pics tonight ...


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

The SRAM trigger shifters line up nicely with the new style Shimano brake levers. You just need to have the SRAM bracket inboard from the brake lever. If your thumbs catch on the shifters you can move the shifter bracket further inwards until they don't touch.

Compared to Hope Tech brake levers with trigger shifters the ergonomics are much better. The trigger shifter fits snuggly against the underneath of the Shimano brake lever, unlike with the bulky Hope Tech levers where the triggers ended up at an odd angle. The Shimano brakes have been very quiet in use too, even in the rain which has been a nice surprise.

Pictured below: SRAM trigger shifters with Shimano brake levers


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Here are a few side views of the Shimano brake lever with SRAM trigger shifter.

I've also attached a close up picture showing the rotor/ pad clearance that the new style Shimano brake calipers have. The larger this gap is the easier it is to setup the brake quickly.


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## nord1899 (Aug 29, 2011)

Just got in my first ride with these. Setup is 2012 Blur LT2 (Alu), 180F and 160R. The BlueSky Cycling deal. Replaced the Elixir 5's (HS1 rotors, 180F, 160R) that came with the bike. Those had 75ish miles on them. And howled and vibrated from day one.

Did the 24-7 trail over to Bob's Basin, down Dropout and back up to the car. Dropout is maybe a mile long, dropping 300 feet, some small stunts on it. 24-7 is about 2 miles of continuous downhill, dropping 625ish feet, some rocks and water berms but no intentional stunts. Google maps with GPS overlay: http://share.gps.motionxlive.com/shr/x/kmz/0c159301e8e277802a09d940c11bbf06 - Google Maps
I could barely start to hear the brakes towards the end of each downhill section, as I'm sure they were getting quite hot. But I never really felt any loss in brake power. 
Modulation on these is just great. Stopping power is significantly better than the Elixir 5's, even with the same rotor size (I did swap out the rotors to Shimano base model).

At this point, I couldn't be happier with them. Hopefully the durability issues some people have had happen don't hit me.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

WR304 said:


> Compared to Hope Tech brake levers with trigger shifters the ergonomics are much better. The trigger shifter fits snuggly against the underneath of the Shimano brake lever, unlike with the bulky Hope Tech levers where the triggers ended up at an odd angle. The Shimano brakes have been very quiet in use too, even in the rain which has been a nice surprise.


While I agree that fitment with Hope levers can be a bit difficult due to the size of the Tech Lever, the "ergonomics" is completely a personal preference issue. I have zero complaints about the position of my shifters or brake levers. If its really an issue, you can get the Hope matchmaker things or whatever they are called.



WR304 said:


> I've also attached a close up picture showing the rotor/ pad clearance that the new style Shimano brake calipers have. The larger this gap is the easier it is to setup the brake quickly.


That's a pretty sizable gap, and while yes it will make set-up easier, it adds to the lever throw. And if you are like me and use your pads as feelers for truing a rotor, that gap will make it much more difficult. Is there a way to adjust this?

I keep reading about the modulation on these, which most people say is great . . . however, in testing them out at the LBS, the levers have a very "on/off" feel to them. Is that normal?


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## nord1899 (Aug 29, 2011)

OO7 said:


> I keep reading about the modulation on these, which most people say is great . . . however, in testing them out at the LBS, the levers have a very "on/off" feel to them. Is that normal?


Mine were just installed and fiddling with the brakes in the garage, it does feel very on/off. Out on the trail, its a completely different story.


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## mtnbkaz (Feb 2, 2004)

OO7 said:


> I keep reading about the modulation on these, which most people say is great . . . however, in testing them out at the LBS, the levers have a very "on/off" feel to them. Is that normal?


I now have 2 sets of these brakes. 203/160 on one bike, 180/160 on another. Both were very on/off "grabby" for the first ride or 2 but after initial break-in are the best modulating brakes I've used.

Kind of the opposite of most of my brakes that initially lacked power until broken in.


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## Et tu Tite? (Nov 16, 2010)

Thanks WR304, much appreciated.:thumbsup: More than enough there to convince me they'll fit just fine.

I've placed my order, should have them tomorrow, be nice to trust my brake again!

Gotta agree on the Hopes though, worst looking cockpit layout ever if you use their (very nice looking) bulky levers - seems to be the same problem with Shimano or SRAM shifters. I'll stick the their bulletproof stuff, i.e. headsets, bb's and hubs thanks...

Cheers


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## Et tu Tite? (Nov 16, 2010)

Thanks WR304, much appreciated.:thumbsup: More than enough there to convince me they'll fit just fine.

I've placed my order, should have them tomorrow, be nice to trust my brakes again!

Gotta agree on the Hopes though, worst looking cockpit layout ever if you use their (very nice looking) bulky levers - seems to be the same problem with Shimano or SRAM shifters. I'll stick the their bulletproof stuff, i.e. headsets, bb's and hubs thanks...

Cheers


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## Et tu Tite? (Nov 16, 2010)

Thanks WR304, much appreciated.:thumbsup: More than enough there to convince me they'll fit just fine.

I've placed my order, should have them tomorrow, be nice to trust my brakes again!

Gotta agree on the Hopes though, worst looking cockpit layout ever if you use their (very nice looking but...) bulky levers - seems to be the same problem with Shimano or SRAM shifters. 

I'll stick the their bulletproof stuff, i.e. headsets, bb's and hubs, thanks...


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## Et tu Tite? (Nov 16, 2010)

Aaaagh triple post!!! Dumbass

Sorry, internet connection went on the blink (well clearly not)... How the hell do I delete these things?


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

OO7 said:


> While I agree that fitment with Hope levers can be a bit difficult due to the size of the Tech Lever, the "ergonomics" is completely a personal preference issue. I have zero complaints about the position of my shifters or brake levers. If its really an issue, you can get the Hope matchmaker things or whatever they are called.
> 
> That's a pretty sizable gap, and while yes it will make set-up easier, it adds to the lever throw. And if you are like me and use your pads as feelers for truing a rotor, that gap will make it much more difficult. Is there a way to adjust this?
> 
> I keep reading about the modulation on these, which most people say is great . . . however, in testing them out at the LBS, the levers have a very "on/off" feel to them. Is that normal?


I liked my Hope Tech X2 brakes. They weren't the most powerful but were always solid and reliable.

If you look at a Hope Tech brake lever from the side its shape is tapered. This limits the adjustability and positioning of both Shimano and SRAM trigger shifters because they hit the underside of the lever body. Even with the Hope matchmaker brackets you can't position the trigger shifters at the same angle relative to the lever as you would when using Shimano or Avid brake levers. You do get used to it but the increased shifter angle means that you have to pull your thumb further back to reach the main shift levers. I had major hand and thumb issues earlier this year whilst using Shimano Deore XT triggers with my Hope Tech brake levers.

http://forums.mtbr.com/7777181-post490.html

The relatively large pad / rotor gap with the new Shimano disc brakes is because the levers use the servo wave cam system. It means there can be a larger pad / rotor gap without excessive lever travel. There isn't much throw on the Shimano brake levers when you pull them. It might be adjustable with the "free stroke" screw that you can see in post #48 but I haven't tried it. The stock setting seems fine. I'll measure what my lever throw is tomorrow.

Have a look at this thread about the "free stroke" adjustment on the previous Shimano Deore XT M775 levers. I think it's similar on the 2011/ 2012 brakes:

How Do I Adjust Free Stroke On XT M775 Brake Levers ? | MTB Workshop & Tech | Mountain Bike | Bike & Cycling Forums - BikeRadar

That on-off feel whilst trying the brakes in the shop is probably because the brakes are brand new. It's also a case of getting used to the reduced hand pressure required. I was quite cautious braking to begin with and built up gradually. For the first few rides my brakes seemed grabby with a slightly notchy lever travel - you had to pull the lever harder initially to make it move, and then it took less effort to pull the lever later in the stroke. After a few rides that grabby sensation disappeared and the brakes are much smoother overall with a good feel.


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

WR304 said:


> That on-off feel whilst trying the brakes in the shop is probably because the brakes are brand new. It's also a case of getting used to the reduced hand pressure required. I was quite cautious braking to begin with and built up gradually. For the first few rides my brakes seemed grabby with a slightly notchy lever travel - you had to pull the lever harder initially to make it move, and then it took less effort to pull the lever later in the stroke. After a few rides that grabby sensation disappeared and the brakes are much smoother overall with a good feel.


I noticed the exact same thing. A month later and the brakes are still awesome... no fade and lots of power even on super steep descents.


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## chinaman (Jun 8, 2007)

Have been using my 775 for 3 years now and have been really happy with them ... just out of curiosity, as I am used to having a reservoir at the lever end that I can fill by 'pouring', with the new 785 ... 

Does one really need the funky funnel to fill up at the lever end?

When using the push and pull method, just noticed that the formula and avid kits has only 2 syringes and so assumed that you use them at the lever and the caliper end?

How much 'reservoir' is there at the lever?

Have not bled (they still work fine for me) or change the mineral oil in my brakes for 3 yrs now ... would anyone recommend changing them? I think sometimes you get used to what you have and even when the performance have degraded slightly, you might not notice them.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

WR304 said:


> I'll measure what my lever throw is tomorrow.


Measured from the outside tip of the brake lever blade the throw on my brakes is 1.5cm.

(Brake lever throw is the distance that you have to pull the brake lever from its starting position before the brake pads engage the rotor.) The outside tip of my brake lever is 5.5cm from the edge of the handlebar grip at rest and 4cm from the edge of the handlebar grip when the brakes are applied. There's a little sponginess after that point also but the feel is equal between the left and right levers.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

After a few weeks riding I decided to replace my front 183mm Hope floating brake rotor with a 180mm Shimano RT86 Ice tech brake rotor. There were two reasons for this. When you pulled the brake levers to slow down the rear brake (used with a Powertap 160mm rotor which has very few cut outs in the braking surface) always felt stronger than the front brake with its serrated Hope floating rotor. I'm hoping that the Shimano rotor will help to balance that sensation out.

Used with the stock Shimano finned brake pads there was an awful lot of brake dust coming off the front brake every ride as well. The front brake caliper, adapter and fork were covered in brake dust. There was much more brake dust than I ever saw from my previous Hope Tech X2 brakes with the same Hope floating rotor. The Shimano RT86 Ice Tech brake rotor has a much smoother braking surface which may extend the pad life a bit more.

When you look at the Shimano Ice Tech rotor the steel braking surface is very thin and you can see the aluminium core is most of the rotor. There aren't any extended descents in the Cotswolds but you do get a lot of 1-1.5 mile descents at a 10-12% gradient so the brakes get a reasonable amount of use, including repeated big stops from high speed. It will be interesting to see how the Shimano Ice Tech rotor performs.

Pictured below: Shimano RT86 Ice tech brake rotor


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

add me to the leaky 2012 xt's list. put them on the other day, and the front is leaking from a particular spot at the reservoir cover. (on the side facing me, about a centimeter away from ther inboard end.) The rear brake isnt leaking, but i bled it twice and still getting inconsistent lever. Gonna call Shimano on Mon, luckily they're only a few miles a way so Im hoping I can just drive over there & drop 'em off. Im sure they'll sort me out. I went for one ride though, i can tell these brakes will be the shiz once they get fixed.


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## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

WR304 said:


> Measured from the outside tip of the brake lever blade the throw on my brakes is 1.5cm.
> 
> (Brake lever throw is the distance that you have to pull the brake lever from its starting position before the brake pads engage the rotor.) The outside tip of my brake lever is 5.5cm from the edge of the handlebar grip at rest and 4cm from the edge of the handlebar grip when the brakes are applied. There's a little sponginess after that point also but the feel is equal between the left and right levers.


I like your choice in shifters and brakes

You can't really tell, but under that XTR is an X0


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

OO7 said:


> You shoulda ordered them.
> 
> a) there are FAR more positive reports on these brakes than negatives
> 
> b) they come with a warranty for a reason.


I should've listend to Gripo. I trimmed my rear brake cable; then I attempted to bleed the system several times. While riding on the sidewalk to test out the brakes, my rear brake started howling. I stopped and looked at the rotor, and there was oil on the rotor.

I took my rear wheel off, and when I removed the brake pads, there was oil collecting on the bottom of the circular indentation in the left piston. I put my finger below the bleed nipple and below the banjo, and there was no oil leaking. I used a Q-tip to wipe up all the oil on the piston, then I reinstalled the brake pads and put the orange insert between the brake pads, and I pumped the brakes ten times. Once again, after removing the brake pads I could see oil collecting on the bottom of the circular indentation in the left piston. I repeated that procedure two more times, and each time there was oil on the left piston. As far as I can tell, the left piston is leaking oil.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

happyriding said:


> I should've listend to Gripo. I trimmed my rear brake cable; then I attempted to bleed the system several times. While riding on the sidewalk to test out the brakes, my rear brake started howling. I stopped and looked at the rotor, and there was oil on the rotor.
> 
> I took my rear wheel off, and when I removed the brake pads, there was oil collecting on the bottom of the circular indentation in the left piston. I put my finger below the bleed nipple and below the banjo, and there was no oil leaking. I used a Q-tip to wipe up all the oil on the piston, then I reinstalled the brake pads and put the orange insert between the brake pads, and I pumped the brakes ten times. Once again, after removing the brake pads I could see oil collecting on the bottom of the circular indentation in the left piston. I repeated that procedure two more times, and each time there was oil on the left piston. As far as I can tell, the left piston is leaking oil.


Lets get one thing real clear . . . your misfortunes are entirely your fault and have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with a bad/faulty product.

Don't try and come here bashing a good product simply because you don't know what you are doing. There are plenty more people here who are quite happy with the 2012 XT/XTR brakes because plain and simple they are a great brake.


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

OO7 said:


> Lets get one thing real clear . . . your misfortunes are entirely your fault and have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with a bad/faulty product.


How is a leaky piston my fault?


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## kermit_xc (Nov 16, 2007)

oo7 needs to ride more ... getting ******y from lack of pedal time

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

kermit_xc said:


> oo7 needs to ride more ... getting ******y from lack of pedal time


Have you followed the other thread on "I Hate the new 2012 XTs?" . . . read it . . . it will explain everything.



happyriding said:


> How is a leaky piston my fault?


Could be any number of the strange and bizarre things you have done to your brakes. Overfilling them for example. But lets keep your misfortunes in the thread you've already started . . .


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## happyriding (May 9, 2008)

OO7 said:


> Could be any number of the strange and bizarre things you have done to your brakes. Overfilling them for example.


I haven't done anything that wasn't in the instructions.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

The width of the Shimano Ice Tech brake rotors is 1.8mm. 

That's narrower than the standard 2mm width of many popular brake rotors (Avid, Hope etc).


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

WR304 said:


> The width of the Shimano Ice Tech brake rotors is 1.8mm.
> 
> That's narrower than the standard 2mm width of many popular brake rotors (Avid, Hope etc).


I think maybe only Hope's rotors are 2mm wide. I measured the following using digital calipers:

- Avid XX HSX - 1.70mm
- Avid XX Cleansweep - 1.80mm
- Avid G2 Cleansweep - 1.65mm
- Ashima rotor - 1.70mm


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

bholwell said:


> I think maybe only Hope's rotors are 2mm wide.


You can add Magura's Storm SL to the 2 mm rotors.


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## ndwight (Nov 1, 2007)

Just got my front brake back from shimano for the leaking ferrule after 2 1/2 weeks. They actually just sent me a new brake, which is cool, but interesting since when I called to see what was taking so long they said they had been "waiting for an out of stock part, but it was ready to ship today."

The new brake came with metal pads, which are WAY stronger and touchier than the resin pads my first set came with. I've only ridden them on the street so far, but I think I might switch one of the pads to the back, so I have a metal and a resin pad on each brake


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

ndwight said:


> Just got my front brake back from shimano for the leaking ferrule after 2 1/2 weeks. They actually just sent me a new brake, which is cool, but interesting since when I called to see what was taking so long they said they had been "waiting for an out of stock part, but it was ready to ship today."
> 
> The new brake came with metal pads, which are WAY stronger and touchier than the resin pads my first set came with. I've only ridden them on the street so far, but I think I might switch one of the pads to the back, so I have a metal and a resin pad on each brake


Interesting, let us know how you like it with the mixed pads. How did you know the new brake came with metal pads? Are there part #'s on the backing plates?

EDIT: Found out they do have a part number on the back and they even state "metal" or "resin"


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## ndwight (Nov 1, 2007)

It says metal on the plate.


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## shapirus (Jun 28, 2009)

bholwell said:


> I think maybe only Hope's rotors are 2mm wide.


Not really. I have four one-piece Hope rotors (saw type), and all of them are around 1.80 mm.


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## zenkem (Dec 18, 2007)

WR304 said:


> The width of the Shimano Ice Tech brake rotors is 1.8mm.
> 
> That's narrower than the standard 2mm width of many popular brake rotors (Avid, Hope etc).


Hey, I was told the ICE Tech Rotors didn't come in six bolt?!? Where did you find yours???


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

zenkem said:


> Hey, I was told the ICE Tech Rotors didn't come in six bolt?!? Where did you find yours???


The Shimano XTR Ice Tech brake rotors (RT-98) are centrelock only.

The Shimano Deore XT Ice Tech brake rotors are available as both centrelock and 6 bolt rotors. The Shimano RT-86 brake rotor is the 6 bolt version.

Wiggle | Shimano XT RT86 Ice-Tec 180mm 6-Bolt Rotor Disc Brake Rotors

.


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## zenkem (Dec 18, 2007)

THX for the info...I gotta have 'em!!!!


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## tech86 (Mar 7, 2011)

One month so far with these XT 785's and all I have to say is they're GREAT!!!:thumbsup:


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## fast540 (May 29, 2011)

just installed the ice rotors mostly cus they look cool at this point because these brakes worked soo awsome with my old promax rotors.best stoppers ive ever uesd


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## Penny (Jul 9, 2006)

Still love mine, but I did have to bleed them after 2 months of hard use.


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## azpoolguy (Oct 23, 2008)

I just got the call that mine are in and ready to pick up. I can't wait to get them on. I've had nothing but bad luck and finicky brakes on my last two bike builds. One Elixer CR and one Elixer R. Lots of squeasl,howls and vibrations. Hopefully the new XTs correct my issues.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

WR304 said:


> After a few weeks riding I decided to replace my front 183mm Hope floating brake rotor with a 180mm Shimano RT86 Ice tech brake rotor.
> ...
> Used with the stock Shimano finned brake pads there was an awful lot of brake dust coming off the front brake every ride as well. The front brake caliper, adapter and fork were covered in brake dust. There was much more brake dust than I ever saw from my previous Hope Tech X2 brakes with the same Hope floating rotor. The Shimano RT86 Ice Tech brake rotor has a much smoother braking surface which may extend the pad life a bit more.
> 
> When you look at the Shimano Ice Tech rotor the steel braking surface is very thin and you can see the aluminium core is most of the rotor. There aren't any extended descents in the Cotswolds but you do get a lot of 1-1.5 mile descents at a 10-12% gradient so the brakes get a reasonable amount of use, including repeated big stops from high speed. It will be interesting to see how the Shimano Ice Tech rotor performs.


I've been having a few issues with my front brake. It's using the stock metallic finned brake pads and a 180mm Shimano Ice tech rotor. The rotor itself is true and there's no noticeable rotor rub or drag when riding normally. The brake is fine if you do short braking into a corner and release the brakes again (5-10 seconds braking). The problem is when you're on a descent where you have to use the brakes all the way down (several minutes braking continuously). After finishing the descent and releasing the brakes you can hear the front brake rotor rubbing on the pads for several minutes after the descent. After that time it goes back to not rubbing again. 

Immediately after the descent it only takes a small amount of pulling the brake lever to engage the front brake, much less travel than normal as though the lever has pumped up. It might be that bleeding the brake would sort it out.

I took the brake apart and put some silicone lubricant around the caliper pistons to try and make sure they're moving freely. The pistons don't appear to be sticking though.

The front brake pads don't look very good either. The edges of the brake pads are crumbling away. It's as though the pads have disintegrated. Apparently a crumbling pad is a sign that the brakes have been overheating badly. The brake pad return spring on the front set of pads doesn't center properly so I'm wondering if I've got a faulty set of brake pads which need replacing?


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## Diesel~ (Feb 17, 2008)

WR304 said:


> I've been having a few issues with my front brake. It's using the stock metallic finned brake pads and a 180mm Shimano Ice tech rotor. The rotor itself is true and there's no noticeable rotor rub or drag when riding normally. The brake is fine if you do short braking into a corner and release the brakes again (5-10 seconds braking). The problem is when you're on a descent where you have to use the brakes all the way down (several minutes braking continuously). After finishing the descent and releasing the brakes you can hear the front brake rotor rubbing on the pads for several minutes after the descent. After that time it goes back to not rubbing again.
> 
> Immediately after the descent it only takes a small amount of pulling the brake lever to engage the front brake, much less travel than normal as though the lever has pumped up. It might be that bleeding the brake would sort it out.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you are getting some thermal expansion of the mineral oil, which brings the pistons closer to the rotor. Once it cools, they slowly return to their normal position. My XT 775s do the same thing.

-D


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## azpoolguy (Oct 23, 2008)

I installed the new XTs and after a short break in they are very strong stoppers. I had to adjust the rear mount on my SuperFly SS a little to get the caliper perfectly centered but every thing else was easy including trimming the lines and moving the pistons out a bit to shorten the lever travel.


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## newoldskool (Oct 8, 2005)

Help. I shortened my hose by the method on page 1. My brakes are too tight no lever throw. What should I do to fix.


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## azpoolguy (Oct 23, 2008)

newoldskool said:


> Help. I shortened my hose by the method on page 1. My brakes are too tight no lever throw. What should I do to fix.


I had the same problem. I just opened up the bleed screw on the master cylinder and pushed my pistons all the way in. Then I had a bit to much lever pull for my liking so I squeezed the lever once a little with the wheel out and now they are perfect.


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## halfwheeler (Oct 12, 2008)

dwyooaj said:


> add me to the leaky 2012 xt's list. put them on the other day, and the front is leaking from a particular spot at the reservoir cover. (on the side facing me, about a centimeter away from ther inboard end.) The rear brake isnt leaking, but i bled it twice and still getting inconsistent lever. Gonna call Shimano on Mon, luckily they're only a few miles a way so Im hoping I can just drive over there & drop 'em off. Im sure they'll sort me out. I went for one ride though, i can tell these brakes will be the shiz once they get fixed.


I had this same problem with my left lever. Called Shimano, and there is a fix kit they will send you (a shop). This must be happening alot. Mine where leaking in the box!


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

What is the fix kit? When mine got fixed they replaced the whole lever/caliper set. I still see a little fluid coming from under the cap from time to time.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

First they sent me the "kit", and it didnt work. So I dropped them off at Shimano, and they sent me a new set which I got the next day. No leaking but right lever still feels wierd, im gonna bleed it tomorrow and hope for the best.



halfwheeler said:


> I had this same problem with my left lever. Called Shimano, and there is a fix kit they will send you (a shop). This must be happening alot. Mine where leaking in the box!


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## Johnny Chicken Bones (Jul 13, 2005)

Gripo said:


> 2 things to watch........if you have the 2012 XT/XTR's
> *Leakage of brake fluid from pistons seal


The leakage at the piston reminded me of an issue I had w/ the new XTR Trails brakes. 
I'd bought a pair for the SS, loved them enough to get a second set for the gears. 
So installed them and during the caliper alignment of the rear brake I had this super odd rigid lever feel. No squish at all. Fully rigid. I'd push the pistons in and then reset (all done on the stand, brakes never ridden) the caliper. One or two pulls and it'd feel normal. Then the rigid feel would return. So, I pulled harder and CRACK! One rear piston cracked and the fluid pooled onto the floor. Naturally Shimano had never seen anything like it and replaced the caliper.

All is well now. Plenty of miles behind me those brakes. No complaints other than the pads are hard to source and way too expensive.

Speaking of pads- anyone using the new Kool Stop versions yet? 
Nice low cost and I loved them on the old XTR brakes.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

How do the 2012 xt's pair with 9 speed grip shift with the xt levers being so short?


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

I've had my brakes for a few months now. The bike has been out in the rain and mud quite a bit. I found that over time my brake levers were becoming increasingly stiff and difficult to pull. 

It sounds really obvious but you need to use a light oil to lubricate the brake lever pivots and servo wave cam regularly in order to keep the brake levers working smoothly. If you lay the bike down on its side then dripping oil down into the lever pivots seems to work quite well. After doing that the brake levers are much smoother again. 

Oiling the pivots also significantly reduces that two stage notchy feeling as the servo wave cam engages when you first pull the lever. With hindsight I should have put some oil on the lever pivots when the brakes were brand new. I think it would have made it easier to adapt to them if the lever action had been as smooth at the time. If you've got a brand new set it's worth doing straight away.

Pictured below: Exposed servo wave cam viewed through the hole in the brake lever.

Pivot locations which need oiling to keep the Shimano brake lever moving smoothly.


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## tmc1171 (Nov 10, 2010)

*Question*

I have xtr shifters. Would I be able to use that part that combines the brake and shifter units together? I am considering the xt brakes over my current under powered hope race x2's. 
I'd like to clean up the cockpit a little as well and was wondering if I could combine my current xtr shifters with the new xt brake unit all in one clamp? Or are they designed to be xtr shifters and xtr brakes or xt shifters and xt brakes only. No mismatching?
Thanks!!!


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

tmc1171 said:


> I have xtr shifters. Would I be able to use that part that combines the brake and shifter units together? I am considering the xt brakes over my current under powered hope race x2's.
> I'd like to clean up the cockpit a little as well and was wondering if I could combine my current xtr shifters with the new xt brake unit all in one clamp? Or are they designed to be xtr shifters and xtr brakes or xt shifters and xt brakes only. No mismatching?
> Thanks!!!


There are a few pictures of the i-spec integrated mounting system for Shimano shifters with Shimano brake levers on the link below. They're going to be the same for both XT and XTR shifters. I've seen it mentioned a few times that the shfter angle with i-spec mounts isn't quite right so they might be worth avoiding and using stock Shimano brackets instead of i-spec. Ideally you'd have the brake lever and shifters both at the same angle, in line with your wrists and forearms for a natural position. I haven't tried the i-spec brackets though as I have SRAM shifters.

» M988 Trail Brakes - Sick Lines - mountain bike reviews, news, videos | Your comprehensive downhill and freeride mountain bike resource

Pictured below: Shimano i-spec mounting brackets detail


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## tmc1171 (Nov 10, 2010)

Thanks so much for the info!


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## speeding_ant (Dec 11, 2011)

I've had mine for two days, 3 rides. Great power - getting used to the feel after coming off Elixirs. There's one thing I'm experiencing though, the lever occasionally is pushing out (only the rear) giving me bugger all lever throw. It's only happening on steeper gnar after a couple of good grabs of the levers. 

Anyone know what I could do to fix this? The manual did state that this could be thermal expansion, but this isn't a gradual issue over a long downhill. I have the ICE pads, and it's just happening intermittently, lever fully pushes out, then another lever grab and it settles back into position again.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

I'm now using Shimano RT-86 Ice-Tech rotors on both wheels. The front is a 180mm rotor and the rear is a 160mm rotor.

An issue which both my brake rotors have is that they sit further inboard than other brake rotors that I've used in the past on the same wheels (Hope Pro II front hub, DT Swiss rear hub). That means you run out of left-right adjustment on the brake caliper as it can't be pushed far enough in towards the wheel.

It's just about possible to get the rotors and calipers aligned without using shims but you'll get better results by adding some rotor shims between the hub and brake rotor. That way the brake rotor is well within the caliper's range of adjustment.

http://www.amazon.com/Syntace-Disc-Shims-Bag-8/dp/B001PTBPY0

If it was just one wheel I'd put it down to the combination of hub/ adapter/ caliper and rotor but both wheels have the same issue so it might just be the rotor. There's a big cut out in the rear of the RT-86 rotor which seems deeper than it really needs to be.

My new 160mm Shimano RT-86 Ice-tech rotor wasn't very true out of the box either. It took 30 minutes before it was straight enough to ride with. Even then it was still rubbing slightly on one brake pad.

Pictured below: Syntace disc brake rotor shims


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## Slurry (Dec 23, 2008)

Do the 2012 XT brakes come with BH90 hoses?


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## paulrb02 (Aug 3, 2009)

Slurry said:


> Do the 2012 XT brakes come with BH90 hoses?


Yep

Under Specifications >> Brake Hose Type SM-BH90-SB

Product


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## bryantaber (Nov 20, 2006)

Okay 2 things. I have on my AM bike the old 800 1st gen Saint calipers and 755 XT calipers w/ old XT levers. They are OK but get I do experience fade. On my DH bike I paired some old quad piston calipers with the 2010 Servo XT levers and noticed insane power. So now I want to replace my AM's 755 /800 brakes. I may either 1. Buy some 2012 XT servo levers and match them with my 755/800 calprs for added power. (CHEAPER TO SPEND 100.00 ON JUST LEVERS) just not sure the cables with bolt up without issue
2. Buy a used complete set of 2010 XT servos for 130.00 shipped 
3. Wait and buy complete 2012's.

Sorry for the confusing rant, I just don have 250.00 plus right now and really love the servo systems. what do you think???


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## JoshS (Jan 7, 2004)

WR304 said:


> I've had my brakes for a few months now. The bike has been out in the rain and mud quite a bit. I found that over time my brake levers were becoming increasingly stiff and difficult to pull.
> 
> It sounds really obvious but you need to use a light oil to lubricate the brake lever pivots and servo wave cam regularly in order to keep the brake levers working smoothly. If you lay the bike down on its side then dripping oil down into the lever pivots seems to work quite well. After doing that the brake levers are much smoother again.
> 
> ...


I have been thinking about sticking some Xt's on a DH bike, but the problems you are describing are the exact reason I am hesitant. Plus in a crash, there are more moving parts to tweek


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## bryantaber (Nov 20, 2006)

*dh compatible*



JoshS said:


> I have been thinking about sticking some Xt's on a DH bike, but the problems you are describing are the exact reason I am hesitant. Plus in a crash, there are more moving parts to tweek


If you look at alot of the 2012 Race Teams using Shimano this year, they are all using XT's or Xtr's instead of Saints. I was at the World Cup Windham Last summer and saw it up close first hand in the pits.The 07-10 Saint levers are the same as the07-2010 XT Levers just painted black. You could always just find a slightly older set of XT's but the calipers wouldnt be as strong as the 2012's for DH.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

JoshS said:


> I have been thinking about sticking some Xt's on a DH bike, but the problems you are describing are the exact reason I am hesitant. Plus in a crash, there are more moving parts to tweek


Apparently the Santa Cruz Syndicate team are using XTR brakes for 2012. The actual brakes on the bikes in the photos with the article aren't XTR though. They're painted black and look like Shimano Saint M810 brakes. 

Santa Cruz Syndicate Confirm Move To Shimano/Fox - BikeRadar

My 2011 XTR M988 Trail front brake has a problem with the lever firming up and rotor rub after the brakes have been used constantly on a descent. It seems to be down to thermal expansion as the brake fluid gets hot. A drawback of mineral oil for brakes apparently, especially if there's any moisture in the system as mineral oil doesn't absorb water. In a mineral oil system the water gathers by the caliper.

_"DOT fluid is hydroscopic (absorbs water) by design, and is the reason it is used as a brake fluid. [If] water gets into any [mineral oil based] hydraulic system that has seals and moving pistons it has a tendency to accumulate at the lowest point (ie: oils float on top of water). This means over time, water accumulates at the caliper, and thus the max temperature that the caliper can rise to before performance issues occur is 100C. With a hydroscopic fluid like DOT, the water gets distributed throughout the system, and although the water absorption lowers the boiling temp of DOT from it's dry state, its still a few hundred Celsius, and thus has a wider performance range [than mineral oil] when your system is "wet".

In practice, almost all automotive systems use a hydroscopic DOT fluid because it is superior. For bikes, there does not seem to be a practical difference between hydroscopic DOT and mineral oil or silicon based fluids (like DOT 5.0) due to lower operating temps and smaller volumes."_ *itsdoable*

http://forums.mtbr.com/5110986-post15.html

http://forums.mtbr.com/395646-post5.html

http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/does-mineral-oil-dot-fluid-work-better-80188.html

Here's Shimano's advice on how to get rid of it: :skep:

_"Vapor lock may occur if the brakes are applied continuously. To relieve this condition, momentarily release the lever.

Vapor lock is a phenomenon in which the oil inside the brake system becomes heated, which causes any water or air bubbles inside the air system to expand. This can then result in a sudden increase in the brake lever stroke."_ *Shimano brake manual*

Shimano Deore XT M785 manual (quoted section is on left hand side under warnings)
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...0A/SI-8JZ0A-004-Eng_v1_m56577569830780951.pdf

It doesn't seem to be a universal problem as I'm sure you'd hear it mentioned more frequently otherwise. It might just be that my brake needs bleeding with new brake fluid and that will sort it out.

From the links above the Magura Royal Blue Blood mineral oil could maybe work better than the standard Shimano mineral oil also if it has a higher boiling point.


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## gfs69 (Aug 16, 2007)

*Love 'em*

Add me to the list. I have them on my RIP9. Just one ride, but so far they are awesome. Tons of stopping power (180mm), and great modulation. Ice Tech rotors. I had my LBS install them for me, but they said they were no problem to set up.


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## sjhiker (Apr 25, 2008)

I just replaced my Juicy 5s on my SantaCruz superlight with them. Nolonger do I sound like a flock of geese coming down the trail. My very first thought was that they do seem heavier than the juicys as they are quite a bit bulkier on both the levers with the reservoir and the calipers (the fins). But the stopping power is pretty sweet.


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## kevinboyer (Jan 19, 2012)

I've been following this thread as I put together a parts list for my new build. I was all set to go with Avid CR X9 's until I started reading this thread. So now I'm torn. The new XT M785 sure sounds like the way to go. I found these XT's here....

BlueSkyCycling.com - Shimano XT M785 Disc Brake w/ Adapters & Rotor

They have both front and rear which is good. This is the only place I've been able to find a "complete" set, meaning rotors included. But I don't know what model rotors they are. I'm so tempted to order these, but I guess I'll call Blue Sky to find out the model of rotor first. I like what I see with the Ice-Tech rotors.

Between the Avid CR's and the XT's, what's the general consensus from people who have used both?

Just talked to Blue Sky and the rotors are RT 75.


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## paulrb02 (Aug 3, 2009)

kevinboyer said:


> This is the only place I've been able to find a "complete" set, meaning rotors included. But I don't know what model rotors they are.


Avid is actually the only company that normally sells brakes with rotors, all other company's usually do a la carte deal.

If you read to the bottom of the page on Blue Sky they include XT RT75 160mm 6-Bolt Rotor. This is NOT the ice-tech rotor, its just a regular rotor. RT86 is the 6 bolt ice tech rotors.

I only have the ice-tech rotors so i can't comment on the rotors, but I love these XT's over my elixir CR Mag's. Bleed was easy, brakes are quiet, and way easier to allign.


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## azpoolguy (Oct 23, 2008)

I had Avid CRs on my last two builds because the were part of the build kit. They were horrible! 

I did 8 hrs on Sunday with 7500' of climbing and in return DH and the XTs are silent and powerful with perfect modulation. The best brakes I've ever used.


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## kevinboyer (Jan 19, 2012)

azpoolguy said:


> I had Avid CRs on my last two builds because the were part of the build kit. They were horrible!
> 
> I did 8 hrs on Sunday with 7500' of climbing and in return DH and the XTs are silent and powerful with perfect modulation. The best brakes I've ever used.


I think you just made my mind up for me azpoolguy. I think the RT 75 rotor will be fine, especially for the complete price of the set. I can always upgrade later on.


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## azpoolguy (Oct 23, 2008)

kevinboyer said:


> I think you just made my mind up for me azpoolguy. I think the RT 75 rotor will be fine, especially for the complete price of the set. I can always upgrade later on.


Those are the rotors I'm using. I got my brakes at shop cost and still didn't want to pay for the Ice Tech rotors. They will work great with either rotor.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

*Good deal*



kevinboyer said:


> I've been following this thread as I put together a parts list for my new build. I was all set to go with Avid CR X9 's until I started reading this thread. So now I'm torn. The new XT M785 sure sounds like the way to go. I found these XT's here....
> 
> BlueSkyCycling.com - Shimano XT M785 Disc Brake w/ Adapters & Rotor
> 
> ...


The exact ones I purchased from Bluesky, 3 months ago. The rotors work great. They are OEM, which have all silver master cylinder. The boxed version comes w/ the MC in black w/ silver top. Anyway, they are the same brakes without the finned pads. Excellent, they ship immediately.


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

I had Elixir CR's on a previous bike and currently have the 2012 XT brakes on 2 bikes. I much prefer the XTs. They have a firmer lever feel with a shorter stroke, which I prefer. The levers are also perfectly sized and shaped for 1-finger braking. Bleeding is also a lot easier. I always felt like the CRs had too much lever throw and felt kind of mushy, even after proper bleeding.

For both the CR and XT brakes, the pad contact adjustment doesn't seem to do much.

The ultimate power of the CRs seemed a bit higher, but I also had a larger front rotor with them, so that might have made the difference.

I had one issue with the XT brakes on my last ride. The front brake lever got hard to pull and didn't seem to do much, but after some use it returned back to normal. Air temperature was about 20F, and my guess is that there is some water in the system that froze in the caliper, and bleeding it should fix the problem.


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## rufio (Jul 3, 2011)

I swore off hydraulic brakes ever since I got a super crappy pair of Avids and I have been using BB7s ever since, even when I had my downhill bike. My riding buddy just bought a SC Tallboy with a full XT kit which obviously comes with the brakes. He let my try his bike for a little bit and I gotta say I am a little envious of his brakes, even with the one finger lever they felt like they could stop a truck. Great ergonomics too. I really liked that adjustment knob. I don't think he had the Ice Tech rotors. 

Another great product from Shimano.


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## bryantaber (Nov 20, 2006)

One thing about XT's past and present , I find, is that the pads cleanliness has some effect on performance. This winter in the NE, I've been riding (m775 XT's) through alot of big puddles and muddy conditions so the pads/rotors need to be cleaned every couple of months. The lever/bleed feels real firm and solid but less power. I swab the rotor with alcohol, and run the pads under a blow torch flame to burn off possible contaminants and the brakes are like new. But the bleed has been solid since I did it last year. My Dh bike (m755 Quad XT's) doesnt seem to need it as much.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

bryantaber said:


> One thing about XT's past and present , I find, is that the pads cleanliness has some effect on performance. This winter in the NE, I've been riding (m775 XT's) through alot of big puddles and muddy conditions so the pads/rotors need to be cleaned every couple of months. The lever/bleed feels real firm and solid but less power. I swab the rotor with alcohol, and run the pads under a blow torch flame to burn off possible contaminants and the brakes are like new. But the bleed has been solid since I did it last year. My Dh bike (m755 Quad XT's) doesnt seem to need it as much.


I get the exact same thing with my XTRs. I sand the pads lightly to remove the baked dirt when it happens and then I rebed them (or not...)


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## nord1899 (Aug 29, 2011)

kevinboyer said:


> I've been following this thread as I put together a parts list for my new build. I was all set to go with Avid CR X9 's until I started reading this thread. So now I'm torn. The new XT M785 sure sounds like the way to go. I found these XT's here....
> 
> BlueSkyCycling.com - Shimano XT M785 Disc Brake w/ Adapters & Rotor
> 
> ...


That is the setup I have, replacing a set of 2012 Elixir 5's. The 2012 XT's just blow them away.


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## trailmax (Jun 29, 2011)

I would stay away from the elixir cr. If you want to go avid get a set of 2012 elixir 9 as they have updated the taperbore resevoir. Ive tried a set of the new xt brakes and they are nice. Though i opted not to get a set and went with the elixir 9 because i got a crazy deal on them. The xt brakes were nice but imo lacked modulation and some owners claiming fluid leaks at the lever body and piston did not help either. 

The newest higher end elixirs are much improved and i think are comparable to shimano's xt. They have great power and loads of modulation. Although i prefer the stubby levers of the xt the carbon levers on the elixirs arent bad either.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

bryantaber said:


> One thing about XT's past and present , I find, is that the pads cleanliness has some effect on performance. This winter in the NE, I've been riding (m775 XT's) through alot of big puddles and muddy conditions so the pads/rotors need to be cleaned every couple of months. The lever/bleed feels real firm and solid but less power. I swab the rotor with alcohol, and run the pads under a blow torch flame to burn off possible contaminants and the brakes are like new. But the bleed has been solid since I did it last year. My Dh bike (m755 Quad XT's) doesnt seem to need it as much.


My brakes have been down a bit on power recently too after the last few months of winter riding.

I sanded the pads down today and the brakes immediately felt stronger again.

The picture below shows my metallic compound front pads alongside each other. The one on the left had been sanded down lightly using 320 grit sandpaper, whilst I'd cleaned the other one but hadn't sanded it. You can see how a layer of black residue had built up on the pads over time, which is removed by gently sanding the brake pad until the gold pad material becomes visible again.


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

It's already a big list of Love, but add me to the list too. Very easy to setup, and very easy to shorten the lines. The instructions were good and best of all, they didn't need a full bleed out of the box. I've been on Juicy's for 4 years and can't wait to get the money together to put these on my other bike.


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## kevinboyer (Jan 19, 2012)

My XT M785's are on the way as I type. One question for you guys. I'm going to be using Jagwire brake lines for the install, so will the Jag's have to be completely bled, or not? My local LBS will be doing the complete build and I know they know what to do, but I'm just curious?


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## bikeNY22 (Aug 20, 2009)

*2012 avid elixir 5s versus 2012 XTs*

hi all

I'm thinking of replacing my 2012 avid elixir 5s with 2012 XTs but have a few questions for you all....

One of my gripes with the elixirs is the lack of pad contact adjust and how much free stroke there is in the levers....

On the XTs, once you have the setting set so there is the minimum free stroke, do the pads engage almost immediately in the lever travel? How large is the free stroke? My elixir levers have over an inch of travel before the pads make contact with the rotors... kinda ridiculous

Those of you guys who made the exact upgrade that I am considering, 2012 avid elixir 5s to 2012 XTs--- please chime in on this subject and maybe just compare the two brake systems a bit more?

Thanks in advance


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## azpoolguy (Oct 23, 2008)

After cutting my lines down. I just gave the levers a little squeeze with the pads out to reset the piston out a ways and it really shortened the lever pull.


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## paulrb02 (Aug 3, 2009)

bikeNY22 said:


> hi all
> Those of you guys who made the exact upgrade that I am considering, 2012 avid elixir 5s to 2012 XTs--- please chime in on this subject and maybe just compare the two brake systems a bit more?


My wife's bike has the elixir 5's I would say the XT's has a shorter free stroke, but the lever pull until you can lock up the wheel just a bit shorter. You get way more modulation on the XT's.


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## bryantaber (Nov 20, 2006)

*2012 calipers*

Not sure if anyone knows but my question is about the difference in calipers from m785 to m775 1st gen servos . I know that just about all shimano hydro levers and calipers are all pretty interchangeable. I am curios if anyone knws what changes have been made to the 2012 caliper that would make it different to my m775's. I read that standard m775 pads will fit in the new 785 calipers if you didnt want to pay 45.00 for the finned pads. So since I really love the feel of the new 2012 levers I was thinking of just buying some off ebay and selling my 09 XT levers. I just dont want to sacrafice any power.


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## Diesel~ (Feb 17, 2008)

bryantaber said:


> Not sure if anyone knows but my question is about the difference in calipers from m785 to m775 1st gen servos . I know that just about all shimano hydro levers and calipers are all pretty interchangeable. I am curios if anyone knws what changes have been made to the 2012 caliper that would make it different to my m775's. I read that standard m775 pads will fit in the new 785 calipers if you didnt want to pay 45.00 for the finned pads. So since I really love the feel of the new 2012 levers I was thinking of just buying some off ebay and selling my 09 XT levers. I just dont want to sacrafice any power.


The 775 pads won't work in the 785 calipers; the retaining bolt is in a different location. On the 775s, the hole is at the corner of the pad, while on the 785s, it is top/center.

Hope that helps,

-D


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## bryantaber (Nov 20, 2006)

WOW, You're right . I hadnt noticed the change. I was sure I had read some glowing review of the 785's that soothed buyers minds by offering a cheaper option for pads. But now I see that the 785 specific caliper can be run without fins for less But how about the caliper itself. Anython special about it that makes it run specific w/ its 2012 lever counterpart. Or can the lever be matched with an earlier caliper, lke a 775?


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

bikeNY22 said:


> One of my gripes with the elixirs is the lack of pad contact adjust and how much free stroke there is in the levers....
> 
> On the XTs, once you have the setting set so there is the minimum free stroke, do the pads engage almost immediately in the lever travel? How large is the free stroke? My elixir levers have over an inch of travel before the pads make contact with the rotors... kinda ridiculous


There's about 1.5cm of free stroke on my brakes with the standard setting. Apparently the adjuster screw on the Shimano brakes doesn't do much so that's unlikely to change greatly:

http://forums.mtbr.com/8504077-post112.html

I much prefer to have some free stroke, rather than having a brake where the pads engage as soon as you touch the lever. With some free stroke it allows you to gradually squeeze the brake levers, precisely and smoothly bringing the pads into contact with the disc, meaning that there's less chance of locking a wheel. It also gives some "thinking room" so that if you do reflexively grab the brakes in a hurry you won't throw yourself over the bars.

Free stroke is something that's very much personal preference though. There's no right or wrong answer, just what works best for individual riders.


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## Once_Upon_A_Time (Aug 13, 2004)

I can't wait to replace my vibrating avid exlir r's with these, add me to the list of love. Just need to save up for it.


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## Slurry (Dec 23, 2008)

Just ordered F/R SLX M666 brakes. I checked them out in person before ordering and compared them to the XTs. Aside from being less shiny, they are the same brake minus the free stroke adjustment (which most seem to find does very little). At $20 less than the XTs (wholesale, so maybe $30-40 retail), they are effectively the same brake (ceramic pistons, BH90 hoses, reach adjust, banjo fitting caliper, heatsink metal pads, etc) for less money.

I'll report back once they arrive. If you're trying to order them from your LBS, QBP has been out for a while but J&B has plenty of SLX/XT/XTR in stock.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

Once_Upon_A_Time said:


> I can't wait to replace my vibrating avid exlir r's with these, add me to the list of love. Just need to save up for it.


Pricepoint is having a sale on all shimano components. XTR's for $200 and XT for $150. TIs a good deal . . . though I suspect if you wait just a tad bit more you'll see another drop as the 2013's are announced (around Sea Otter).


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## bryantaber (Nov 20, 2006)

OO7 said:


> Pricepoint is having a sale on all shimano components. XTR's for $200 and XT for $150. TIs a good deal . . . though I suspect if you wait just a tad bit more you'll see another drop as the 2013's are announced (around Sea Otter).


that price is actually on the high side. Ebay has them typically for 260-275 pair shipped. There was a link for on this thread earlier for 120.00 each also.. Universal cycles and Blue Sky


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## charlesinoc (May 17, 2009)

bryantaber said:


> that price is actually on the high side. Ebay has them typically for 260-275 pair shipped. There was a link for on this thread earlier for 120.00 each also.. Universal cycles and Blue Sky


Any concern about Shimano honoring warranty for items purchased off ebay? Campagnalo / Fulcrum would not honor warranty on items purchased of internet retailers without an actual physical retail location. Just wondering....


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## twinracer (Sep 1, 2008)

I just put a Shimano M755 4 pot caliper and a M785 lever together, and i like it! I was using a M775 lever and i can feel the difference.


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## bryantaber (Nov 20, 2006)

Well my experience with Shimano is if you go through your LBS that deals with them and bring in a set or part that is 2012 and ***** loudly, they should be able to embaress Shimano into covering what is broke if it's within a short time frame of purchase. Shimano is so huge they'll probably replace upon request. BUT I would try dealing with shimano directly first. I had an older 755 caliper that had a blown o-ring and bleed screw that needed replacing. They called the Shimano rep and they hooked me for free. It's not a whole set but I thought is was pretty nice of em.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

bryantaber said:


> that price is actually on the high side. Ebay has them typically for 260-275 pair shipped. There was a link for on this thread earlier for 120.00 each also.. Universal cycles and Blue Sky


Universal nor Blue Sky Cycling have XTRs for less than the PP sale price. The cheapest on ebay for the 988 right now is a set that is being bid on at $325. If that is the final sales price, it will be a steal, but there is still time left.

MTBP


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## boboxx (Nov 15, 2011)

well CRC has the front XTR brake for 199$ so yes it is chaper 
Shimano XTR Race Disc Brakes M985 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

boboxx said:


> well CRC has the front XTR brake for 199$ so yes it is chaper
> Shimano XTR Race Disc Brakes M985 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com


HAHAHA... Check again.:thumbsup:


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## boboxx (Nov 15, 2011)

Sorry I was in Canadian funds  For once our money is worth more!


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## bryantaber (Nov 20, 2006)

*XT pricing*

Sorry, just to clarify...the Blue SKY cycles and Ebay prices were in reference to XT , not the XTR.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

this place has good service and deals...

Pro Mountain Outfitters


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## F.N.G (Jan 6, 2008)

Is the only difference between the XT M785 and the XTR Trail 988 weight? A riding partner has the XTR Trail and they stop amazingly well. Was thinking about getting some but if the XT M785 stops just as well, I would go for those as I am not a weight weenie. Wouldn't want to spend that difference in price just to save some grams.....


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

F.N.G said:


> Is the only difference between the XT M785 and the XTR Trail 988 weight? A riding partner has the XTR Trail and they stop amazingly well. Was thinking about getting some but if the XT M785 stops just as well, I would go for those as I am not a weight weenie. Wouldn't want to spend that difference in price just to save some grams.....


Yep. Save the dough and gat the XT's. 
They are awesome!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Jon Richard (Dec 20, 2011)

twinracer said:


> I just put a Shimano M755 4 pot caliper and a M785 lever together, and i like it! I was using a M775 lever and i can feel the difference.


I like this set up. Any idea what the caliper weighs? I was thinking of going this route as opposed to the 160ish gram Saint caliper, but those m755's have a heck of a reputation and I think the Saint would be overkill for AM/ Trail- at least at the level I ride.

I have a poor understanding of the function of Servo wave. I want 4 piston calipers reasoning that more fluid volume and therefore lever travel will be required to actuate the larger piston area of the 4 pots. I'm a two finger brake user and desire the power but with less sensetivity to lever input.

Does Servo wave increase or decrease master cylinder piston movement deeper in the lever throw? The choice being between Servo wave XTR trail and non Servo wave XTR race.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Jon Richard said:


> I like this set up. Any idea what the caliper weighs? I was thinking of going this route as opposed to the 160ish gram Saint caliper, but those m755's have a heck of a reputation and I think the Saint would be overkill for AM/ Trail- at least at the level I ride.
> 
> I have a poor understanding of the function of Servo wave. I want 4 piston calipers reasoning that more fluid volume and therefore lever travel will be required to actuate the larger piston area of the 4 pots. I'm a two finger brake user and desire the power but with less sensetivity to lever input.
> 
> Does Servo wave increase or decrease master cylinder piston movement deeper in the lever throw? The choice being between Servo wave XTR trail and non Servo wave XTR race.


Servo wave creates non-linear lever pull. You get more piston movement per distance of lever pull once the servo wave kicks in.


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## Jon Richard (Dec 20, 2011)

mestapho said:


> Servo wave creates non-linear lever pull. You get more piston movement per distance of lever pull once the servo wave kicks in.


Thanks mesta pho yo response 

If I understand correctly would this mean the linear pull of the non Servo wave XTR race would develope more mechanical leverage but with a longer lever stroke which is what I'm after, thats how I understand it in the automotive world anyway.

What of brake fluid vs. mineral oil for the m985 lever m755 caliper combo. I'm curious what fluid the old Deore xt stuff ran and if there is a potential problem trying to mix these two. Which fluid would be appropriate?

I like the look of the m755 caliper as well, reminds me of miniature Wilwood Superlites-


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

As far as the race is concerned they will have linear pull throughout the lever travel. How hard you pull equals how hard the calipers squeeze. Shimano claims that the servowaves deliver more power. I don't have any experience with the race versions.


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## Jon Richard (Dec 20, 2011)

I was still a little hazy about Servo wave, what it actually does, and how it accomplishes it so a did a little digging.

I think Shimano could do a better job conveying infomation about Servo wave technology, but if I am seeing what they display on their site correctly it appears to provide a piston stroke that is progressivly less as it goes deeper into it's travel. Performance you need!

So more travel initially to provide pad clearance on the return stroke and less travel during brake engagement to provide more mechanical leverage, pretty cool. Looks like this is accomplished by moving the piston acuator rod anchor point closer to the lever pivot as the lever is squeezed. Apparently Shimano has been utilizing this tech on cable actuated cantilevers even before the days of V brakes.

So, it looks like XTR trail levers are the ticket. If anybody has any feedback on running mineral oil in the old m755 4 pots that would be great.


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

*XTR m975 levers + XT m785 calipers?*

Can anyone confirm that Shimano's range of levers & calipers still play nicely together? I have an m765 caliper that has given up the ghost (weeping at the seals after 5+ years of use in varying conditions), and bought a set of the 785 calipers to swap over. Looks like I need to buy hoses (different banjo and bolt on the newer brakes), but otherwise I should be good to go, yes?

Edit: Score one for hoarding! Just found a brand new m765 caliper sitting in my parts bin. :thumbsup: Still might go with the new calipers, so question stands.
Thanks.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

do the XTR race brakes have the servo-wave?


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

bt said:


> do the XTR race brakes have the servo-wave?


Nope. They are linear pull.


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## Jon Richard (Dec 20, 2011)

Entrenador said:


> Can anyone confirm that Shimano's range of levers & calipers still play nicely together? I have an m765 caliper that has given up the ghost (weeping at the seals after 5+ years of use in varying conditions), and bought a set of the 785 calipers to swap over. Looks like I need to buy hoses (different banjo and bolt on the newer brakes), but otherwise I should be good to go, yes?
> 
> Edit: Score one for hoarding! Just found a brand new m765 caliper sitting in my parts bin. :thumbsup: Still might go with the new calipers, so question stands.
> Thanks.


Hey whats your avatar mean thread author with the cool avatar :thumbsup:

I won't be able to confirm concerning the XTR trail/ Saint combo til I get my hands on them, but for what it's worth I've read from many multiple sources that they all do infact work together.


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## staikeinthahood (Oct 8, 2008)

mestapho said:


> Nope. They are linear pull.


XTR M985 is linear pull
XTR M988 is servowave


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

staikeinthahood said:


> XTR M985 is linear pull
> XTR M988 is servowave


Isn't that what I said?

985=race

988=trail


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## kritiana08 (Feb 29, 2012)

veritechy said:


> That's a nice deal. Thanks guys. I'm getting one!
> BTW, how does it compare to the older XTs? I have a set of older XTs. I like the modulation, but the power is a little lacking.


Gripo, I now see in the XTR air raid siren thread where the rear crimped banjo also is leaking. Guess it will be new Jagwire for brand new brakes. Crap.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

kritiana08 said:


> Gripo, I now see in the XTR air raid siren thread where the rear crimped banjo also is leaking. Guess it will be new Jagwire for brand new brakes. Crap.


I'm running XTR hose with the crimped banjo on my XT brakes with no leakage.
Needed longer hose when switching frames and my LBS only had XTR.


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## Slurry (Dec 23, 2008)

If i loosen the banjo bolt to adjust the hose angle as it exits the caliper, will i need to bleed the brake (does air enter the line)?


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## paulrb02 (Aug 3, 2009)

Slurry said:


> If i loosen the banjo bolt to adjust the hose angle as it exits the caliper, will i need to bleed the brake (does air enter the line)?


If you unscrew it too far, you will need a bleed.

I would say just turn 1/8 of rotation at a time until you can move the banjo. I did this,, its pretty easy. I also turned a bit too much (I was careless that night) and I had a little fluid get out.


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

twinracer said:


> I just put a Shimano M755 4 pot caliper and a M785 lever together, and i like it! I was using a M775 lever and i can feel the difference.


Hey, did the hose you're using come with the caliper, or with the lever? I'm trying to figure out if the banjo on the m785 brakes is the same as that on the m765 version. I know the banjo bolt is different, but I'd like to use my m765 brake lines with the newer m785 calipers if possible; would prefer to buy the bolt & o-ring kit for $10 instead of $50 ea for the hoses.

Thanks for any help.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

I can't answer your question regarding the hose, but I can say there's little point in buying a caliper and hose to use with your existing levers. You can buy a whole XT set (caliper, hose, lever) for about the same cost as a hose and caliper.


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## Slurry (Dec 23, 2008)

Just got my M666 brakes setup, and moved the M665 brakes over to a dirt jumper.

All I can say is wow. The 665 brakes were fine, but the power on the new brakes is just totally ridiculous. I might have to put smaller rotors on my bike, but I probably wont.

And you can still bleed the M666 brakes like all previous shimano brakes, you just have to take off a few more parts that cover the reservoir.


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## chris9888 (Feb 27, 2011)

Just replaced my old XT brake with the new 785. Test ride this morning, it was AWESOME!


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## XR1-Dude (Feb 12, 2012)

I've just installed a front and rear set of XT M785 hydro's with 160mm IceTech rotors. they replaced the standard M446 brakes.

The install was actually very easy considering I have not played with bikes for 30 years. Even shortening the hoses and bleeding was not difficult.

They are nice and powerful.


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## SEK82089 (Sep 20, 2007)

Whats the availability of the all silver set up in the U.S? Wiggle has them but will a LBS be able to get them? With all the earlier issues posted I think I will go through an LBS for these.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

SEK82089 said:


> Whats the availability of the all silver set up in the U.S? Wiggle has them but will a LBS be able to get them? With all the earlier issues posted I think I will go through an LBS for these.


I have a feeling that the earlier reported issues were either worked out in later batches or were the result of improper installation.


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## rekibtm (Mar 9, 2006)

man the coby bulkyness of these brakes have grown on me quickly. Either I was wrong or just easily won over. I thought the elixirs were much better, but I rode with a dude with elixir cr's this morning and they looked much chunckier. I know this might be petty. I have grown to REALLY like these brakes!


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## NielsJ (Sep 27, 2011)

I installed the XT M785 brakes on Friday and had the first run on Saturday. They rock! :cornut:
I have to get used to only using one finger, as two fingers is way too much!

I shortened the hoses with this guide, and no bleeding was needed 

I'm a bit puzzled about the "free stroke" screw. It doesn't seem to have any influenze.  How far can you unscrew it, and what happens if it comes all the way out?


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## JMC478 (Mar 7, 2012)

*Pads & rotor to suit M666*



Slurry said:


> Just got my M666 brakes setup, and moved the M665 brakes over to a dirt jumper.
> 
> All I can say is wow. The 665 brakes were fine, but the power on the new brakes is just totally ridiculous. I might have to put smaller rotors on my bike, but I probably wont.
> 
> And you can still bleed the M666 brakes like all previous shimano brakes, you just have to take off a few more parts that cover the reservoir.


Glad you're happy with the brakes. What pads & rotor are you using with it?

My Trek Superfly AL Elite came with a set but in one wet and gritty ride I wore through the resin pads and damaged both rotors (expensive education lesson :madman: ).

I was looking at using G03S (metal) with the RT75 6 bolt rotor. Any thoughts?


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## 29ftw (Apr 28, 2010)

I also got a set of the new XTs recently installed with 180/160 ice rotors, F & R respectively.

The stopping power is so ridonculous I've had to adjust my riding style - these are really impressive brakes! 

My only complaint is the "chrome" reservoir cover glares like a mofo in the bright sun. I'd much prefer black..


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## Slurry (Dec 23, 2008)

JMC478 said:


> Glad you're happy with the brakes. What pads & rotor are you using with it?
> 
> My Trek Superfly AL Elite came with a set but in one wet and gritty ride I wore through the resin pads and damaged both rotors (expensive education lesson :madman: ).
> 
> I was looking at using G03S (metal) with the RT75 6 bolt rotor. Any thoughts?


The M666 brakes come stock with M03 Metal pads with the heat sinks, so I'm guessing you have the older brakes or for some reason trek swapped out the stock M03 pads for resin.

I've always prefered metal pads, though I don't know if I'll be shelling out for another set of heatsink pads when these wear out. I use pre "Ice Tech" Shimano XT centerlock rotors - RT79. I like centerlock and I've been happy with Shimano's rotors thus far.


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## twinracer (Sep 1, 2008)

Entrenador said:


> Hey, did the hose you're using come with the caliper, or with the lever? I'm trying to figure out if the banjo on the m785 brakes is the same as that on the m765 version. I know the banjo bolt is different, but I'd like to use my m765 brake lines with the newer m785 calipers if possible; would prefer to buy the bolt & o-ring kit for $10 instead of $50 ea for the hoses.
> 
> Thanks for any help.


neither, The hose didn't come with lever or caliper. I got a couple extra hoses and made one for M785 and M755.

Yes, the M785's connecting bolt is shorter than M775 (and possibly M765 too. I dont own it, so I cannot say about it) *that I used to use.
I read somewhere that M785 and M755's banjo unit are similar and interchangeable, but obviously banjo bolts are different (one for M785 is a lot longer than one for M755)

Hope this helps


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## fatchanceti (Jan 12, 2005)

Just picked up my BR-M785 brakeset and RT86 rotors.

Are all of you 6-bolt guys using the assortment of "locking pins" and the other shim that came with these? The guy at the shop said it's a bit of a knucklebuster to bend the locking tabs...

The mounting bolts already have threadlocker on them - is this just lawsuit overkill oh Shimano's part?

here are some weights (Front with 160mm IS mounts and bolts, 1000mm hose)


Rear (with 160mm IS mounts and bolts, 1650mm hose)


The IceTechs 160mm 6-bolts and all of their "accessories"


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

I use all the extra stuff. I doubt it's necessary though. 
Bending the locking tabs was really easy, I don't know what that mechanic was talking about.


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## Trackho (Sep 23, 2011)

mestapho said:


> I use all the extra stuff. I doubt it's necessary though.
> Bending the locking tabs was really easy, I don't know what that mechanic was talking about.


Me too, takes a millisec with a tiny flathead to bend the tabs--pretty cool they give that to you--however, I didn't use the safety wiring, but I was impressed that the caliper bolt was drilled for it


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Oh yeah, I forgot about the safety wire. That went in the trash.


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## zenkem (Dec 18, 2007)

I prefer the minimalist view on my ride!!! I use BLUE Thread sealant without the extra hardware...have not had a problem yet...although, I do replace the rotor bolts when swapping rotors...


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## zenkem (Dec 18, 2007)

Has anyone tried the XT SM-SL78 I-Spec Brackets with the BR-M785 brakeset??? Is this a worthy upgrade??? I'd like to see some pic's if you have them...

Shimano XT SM-SL78 I-Spec Brackets Pair at Price Point


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## bryantaber (Nov 20, 2006)

My guess is that if your levers fit w/ your pod onto the bars w/out the brackets, then why bother.


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## zenkem (Dec 18, 2007)

bryantaber said:


> My guess is that if your levers fit w/ your pod onto the bars w/out the brackets, then why bother.


I heard that it cleans up the cockpit really nice and gives you an excuse to through more money at your Ride...


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## fatchanceti (Jan 12, 2005)

I updated the hose lengths for the weights I posted above, and here are a few more shots/weights that may be of interest:

I think I got the XL kit, which is 1000mm front hose length and 1650 rear.

Here's the front pre-bled kit out of the box, with the hose untrimmed - 287.2 grams


Add the post mount bolts for 160mm rotors - 300.6 grams


Here is the rear pre-bled assembly with 1650mm hose - 305 grams


Adding the included post mount bolts (for 160mm rotor) - 318.2 grams


Here is the front RT86 6-bolt 160mm rotor without any of the bolts (12.8 grams for 6 bolts)


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## fatchanceti (Jan 12, 2005)

Trackho said:


> Me too, takes a millisec with a tiny flathead to bend the tabs--pretty cool they give that to you--however, I didn't use the safety wiring, but I was impressed that the caliper bolt was drilled for it


Yeah, it was really a non-issue. Used a jewelers screwdriver and it was pretty easy.

The setup went smoothly (installed them on my 2012 Mukluk), just need to trim 10-15cm worth of front hose tonight.

I could use some tips on tweaking the caliper alignment. I figured by slowly tightening the caliper bolts as I had the brakes applied that things would line up pretty well, but there is still some slight rubbing when I spin the wheel. This is the first set of Shimano discs that I've set up from scratch, so I tried to do it the same way I've always done my Avid setups.


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## zenkem (Dec 18, 2007)

Um, you didn't put the brackets on the scale in the second set of pic's...might explain the big change in weight...or...maybe...I don't understand your post...


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## fatchanceti (Jan 12, 2005)

zenkem said:


> Um, you didn't put the brackets on the scale in the second set of pic's...might explain the big change in weight...or...maybe...I don't understand your post...


Weight with 160mm IS brackets (and bolts) in up in post #225 (329 front, 351 rear)

I just did the 2nd post for the benefit of the post mount guys, or for people using other than 160 IS adapters.


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## zenkem (Dec 18, 2007)

fatchanceti said:


> Weight with 160mm IS brackets (and bolts) in up in post #225 (329 front, 351 rear)
> 
> I just did the 2nd post for the benefit of the post mount guys, or for people using other than 160 IS adapters.


Ahhh, I knew I was missing something...THX for posting!!!


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## sakucee (Mar 29, 2011)

I have pair of M988's that weep oil slowly when bike is upside down (at the orange reservoir cap), is this fixable or do i need to warranty both levers?


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## boboxx (Nov 15, 2011)

Are you sure they are no leaking from the small reservoir cap screw? look to see if the a small O ring is damaged.


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## sakucee (Mar 29, 2011)

Pretty sure, the oil is inside the lip of the orange cap..


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## boboxx (Nov 15, 2011)

hmm strange, I just installed mine (M985) a few weeks ago but haven't had that problem


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## StiHacka (Feb 2, 2012)

Please help! (long story short) I got coerced to getting a M785 caliper which I am trying to mate to a M775 dual action lever. The caliper came with a plain bolt in place of the banjo/bolt, I have neither the banjo nor the banjo bolt. Is the infamous BH90 kit my only option or will any 3rd party solution work with this caliper? Paying as much for the hose as for the whole caliper does not sound appealing to me, plus I keep reading all the stories about the problems of the banjo-hose connection. Thank you!


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## Jeff in Bend (Jun 5, 2010)

Tree Fort is doing a price match on the M785's with the Ice-Tech pads for $120.45. I got a pair with the Ice-Tech rotors and adapters, 180/160 for $364.00 and free shipping. Deal lasts until 3/30.


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## fatchanceti (Jan 12, 2005)

Jeff in Bend said:


> Tree Fort is doing a price match on the M785's with the Ice-Tech pads for $120.45. I got a pair with the Ice-Tech rotors and adapters, 180/160 for $364.00 and free shipping. Deal lasts until 3/30.


I purchased mine from TreeFort a few weeks ago, got the same killer price match. I think the discount with F&R + rotors and IS adapters cameout to like -$160 or something like that.

Great brakes, although I could probably warrant a 180mm rotor on the front of my Mukluk.

Shortened the lines on Sunday. Pretty easy job as previously linked. After everything was trimmed and put back together I removed the T10 torx nut from the reservoir and pushed the pads back in to let the excess fluid through. That was all it took, nice solid lever feel, no bleeding required.


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## StiHacka (Feb 2, 2012)

StiHacka said:


> Please help! (long story short) I got coerced to getting a M785 caliper which I am trying to mate to a M775 dual action lever. The caliper came with a plain bolt in place of the banjo/bolt, I have neither the banjo nor the banjo bolt. Is the infamous BH90 kit my only option or will any 3rd party solution work with this caliper? Paying as much for the hose as for the whole caliper does not sound appealing to me, plus I keep reading all the stories about the problems of the banjo-hose connection. Thank you!


After a little research, I found that Jagwire and Goodridge offer kits and fittings that work with M985/M785 calipers provided one has the original long Shimano banjo bolt. I am going the cheapest route now, getting a BH90 kit for an Asian Ebay seller, and if it fails, I am going to go probably with the Goodridge hose. For me, Shimano dropped the ball on this with their crimped-on disposable banjo forcing you to buy the whole kit.


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## Trackho (Sep 23, 2011)

*Love the Brakes-Hate the Levers*

Love the Brakes-Hate the Levers

What were they thinking?? Ive used two fingers to brake since the beginning of time. My middle finger is longer/stronger than my index (I wear 3xl gloves). The extra finger only adds more power, better modulation and more control. I just dont get it, Im trying to get used to it, I still use the avid rear brake only because the lever is mo better. Plain old goofy in my book. Roadracing motorcycles (my background) tried these stupid shorty levers--they really didnt catch on with the serious race crowd.

OK Ive vented...nothing to see here


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

The brakes are strong enough that you don't need the second finger. That's what they were thinking.


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## bryantaber (Nov 20, 2006)

True. They are so powerful, that one will do. I'm not sure what kind of riding you do, but if it's Freeride or DH, like me, I would think that you would like having as many fingers on the bars as possible. Especially when launching off of a big kicker or a nasty drop to a transition. More fingers on the bars the better. Alot of times I keep my fingers off the front brake all together when ripping a steep technical DH section. These levers feel great for that !!!


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## kevocastro (Sep 23, 2011)

Does anyone has a code from performancebike?

About to order 2012 XT's


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

Have been considering Xt's for my next brakes, good to hear. I do like alot of lever travel though ,when 1 or 2 finger braking if the lever is closer to the bar it's easier to grip the bar. If you just use a reach adjust to do this, the lever is to close and hits my knuckles. So, far away and out of the way when not in use and close to the bar when braking.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

kevocastro said:


> Does anyone has a code from performancebike?
> 
> About to order 2012 XT's


Not sure if it works online, I don't think it does, but if you can get into a Perfomance Bike brick and mortar on a tuesday between 12-2 you get 10% off of your purchase.


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## 08hardrockmiami (Jan 28, 2011)

What adapters would I need to make this work with my 2010 Trek EX 8. I currently have Avid Elixir 5's 185F/160R. The fork is a standard 9mm QR. I will be using 180f/160r 6 bolt shimano ice tech rotors.


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## NielsJ (Sep 27, 2011)

08hardrockmiami said:


> What adapters would I need to make this work with my 2010 Trek EX 8. I currently have Avid Elixir 5's 185F/160R. The fork is a standard 9mm QR. I will be using 180f/160r 6 bolt shimano ice tech rotors.


You can keep the rear adapter, but the front has to be a 180 instead of the 185. Does your fork have PM or IS mount? That's the deciding point for the adapter.


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## charmon2 (Jun 6, 2005)

I just ordered a set of XT brakes with the ice tech rotors (160 rear, 180 front). The 180 rotor package looked like it had been opened, not that I really care as it doesn't appear to be used. Was there supposed to be an adapter for the caliper mount in the box? I am used to buying Avid brakes which have always included any necessary adapters. I assume I need the spacer on the fork to clear the larger rotor, I just want to make sure I'm not owed one before I start scouring the LBS's looking for the part.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

You have to buy the adapter separately. 
Universal Cycles has a good stock at reasonable prices.


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## charmon2 (Jun 6, 2005)

mestapho said:


> You have to buy the adapter separately.
> Universal Cycles has a good stock at reasonable prices.


Thanks. That's kind of what I figured, just wanted to make sure.


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## 08hardrockmiami (Jan 28, 2011)

Whats the best price people have seen on these? Through lots of price matching I was able to get it down to $329.19 shipped from Jenson. That includes the F/R Brakes and 180F/160R IceTech Rotors. I havent pulled the trigger yet though.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

Trackho said:


> Love the Brakes-Hate the Levers
> 
> What were they thinking?? Ive used two fingers to brake since the beginning of time. My middle finger is longer/stronger than my index (I wear 3xl gloves). The extra finger only adds more power, better modulation and more control. I just dont get it, Im trying to get used to it, I still use the avid rear brake only because the lever is mo better. Plain old goofy in my book. Roadracing motorcycles (my background) tried these stupid shorty levers--they really didnt catch on with the serious race crowd.
> 
> OK Ive vented...nothing to see here


I hear ya! I just got a set of XT's and the lever is ridiculous. Especially since I use gripshift! I'm adjusting--it really is a one finger brake power wise--just need to learn to use just the one (and reach way inward to do it) Otherwise, I love the brakes! Much better than any Avid product I've tried.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

I decided I didn't want to live with the stubby lever so I ordered the 3-finger Trekking version from Germany. (it's a Shimano Europe product only. Hopefully shipping will go smoothly--this business has a good international rep so I'm pretty confident.

XT Scheibenbremshebel BL-T785 schwarz


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## StiHacka (Feb 2, 2012)

I have a M785 caliper mated to a ST-M775 dual action lever and I like this combo a lot. The lever is long enough for comfortable middle-finger braking.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

Loving these brakes so far! (except the ridiculously short lever) Great modulation and power, quiet, and when I changed a flat putting the wheel back in did not make the rotor rub. This is literally the first time I've not had to re-adjust or fiddle with things when I took the wheel out! (Avid Juicy and Elixir both had this issue) It rubbed a tiny bit when I first put it in but I just squeezed the lever a couple of times and it self-centered and all was good.

The Trekking style (longer 3-finger style) levers I ordered from Germany are in U.S. customs now according to DHL tracking, so I will hopefully have them soon to address the one negative I have with these brakes. (aside from the cost--but if this is what it takes to get hydraulic brakes to work this well, I'll pay it!)


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

Ok, here's a tricky one for you brake buffs!

I've currently got the 'entry level' M445 brakes on my Trance, and I'm actually pretty happy with them in all respects except the lever throw is too much - they are practically at the handlebars by the time they bite. 

So, I'm Iiking what I hear about the new servowave brakes having an earlier bite point, and adjustable at that.

However, I haven't got the cash for a new set of brakes at the moment, so I'm trying to get the benefit of the servowave action on a budget, by just getting new levers, but keeping my existing hoses, calipers and rotors. 

However, from Shimano tech docs I see the M785 levers use the BH90 hose and a shorter nut and barbed insert to attach at the lever. My current brakes use the BH59 hose and the longer nut and barbed insert. So, can I attach my current hose to the M785 lever?

If not, I assume the fallback option would be the older M775 levers, which are still servowave, but use the BH59 hose and longer fittings. And if so, is the only difference between the M785 and M775 the look, and that you can bleed the newer ones with that yellow funnel thingy without taking the reservoir cover off?

I'm jealous of all you guys with your fancy new XTs, finned pads, and ice tech rotors, but maybe you can take pity on someone with a lesser budget and help me get at least some of the advantages...


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## bryantaber (Nov 20, 2006)

I have swapped m775 levers to m785 levers on my 09 1st gen servo calipers. It was a breeze the hose nut/lever is the correct threading. Bottom line is that in the last 2 years I have tried a bunch of combos regarding levers/ stock hoses on M755,M765,M775,M785's. Every combo was interchangeable. Including servo levers to non servo calipers!!! It's the changing the CALIPER to different stock hoses that brings problems with o-rings and banjos. To adress the lever throw... Just curious if you have given the lever a full squeeze without the rotor in the caliper. This will shorten the throw slightly. Even if the rotor is very close to rubbing after it's back in the caliper, cycling the lever should give it some space. I usually have to do this myself after a bleed to adjust my rear lever especially. Sometimes 2 full squeezes even, depending on the rotors I'm using. So remember you can swap the levers but keep the calipers with the stock hoses. Servo calipers should stay with servo levers for optimum power.


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

That's great Bryantaber, just what I needed to know, thanks. Means I've got the full choice of 1st & 2nd generation servowave levers to choose from. Particularly interested to hear you've used servowave levers with calipers that didn't originall have servowave ones, as that's what I'm planning to do.

Will try your suggestion of extending the pistons before putting wheel in first, as sounds like that may be another way of setting the bite point earlier. However, do you find the pads space themselves back to the original distance as the pads wear? Must admit I don't know how the callipers keep a set distance to rotors as the pads wear, so don't know if the distance they maintain is whatever you start them off at, or they will revert to some pre-determined design distance built into the particular model of caliper.


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## Gripo (May 2, 2005)

Have Shimano admitted to/fixed the leaking house furel (banjo/caliper end) and the seeping pistons yet....on the XT785-XTR985 brakes....


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## dancing james (Sep 27, 2010)

What replacement pads are people using for the M785 brakes?

How much difference am I likely to experience using pads made by an alternative manufacturer without the fins?

Such as Superstar Components - High Spec Parts For Peanuts their shimano ss pads?

Where `i ride it tends to be very muddy and sandy so cheaper pads are probably a good idea for me.


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## Davey G (Nov 25, 2010)

I just bought some M785's in Black today to replace my Elixir 5's. Had enough of them. Poor brakes, poor control and noisey. Please baby jesus let the XT's be better!!


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## Davey G (Nov 25, 2010)

Used the brakes at Laggan and Fort William this weekend and I'm so happy with the performance. Exactly what brakes should be like. Bye bye Avids for good!


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## Pelly_NH (Feb 15, 2005)

Competitive Cyclist has these for $119 which is the best price I could find by far. Mine should show up today! :thumbsup:


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## B.BL (Nov 6, 2005)

Has anyone had any of those typical avid-annoyances with the xt? stuttering, etc. ... there seems to be very little negative feedback.


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## gfs69 (Aug 16, 2007)

B.BL said:


> Has anyone had any of those typical avid-annoyances with the xt? stuttering, etc. ... there seems to be very little negative feedback.


I have two sets of the XT's, and am replacing a set of CR's with SLX's on my Mukluk. The Shimano's have been excellent! No problems at all so far. No squealing, no sending stuttering vibrations up the seat post, etc. I have had my fair share of problem's with the Avids (CR's, XO's, R's)


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## sakucee (Mar 29, 2011)

Set of XTRs, only some noise when wet, no warbles good power, good modulation.


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## belljeffw (Feb 10, 2004)

I have two sets. I bought the second set because the first set was/is the strongest brakes I've ever owned. The second set leaks. I replaced the lines with Jagwire which made things better, but there is still a leak from somewhere other than the lines on both calipers. Every 2 or 3 rides I have to cook the pads with a propane torch to get rid of the oil. Funny, though. I still have the Codes I replaced sitting in a box ready to go, but prefer burning the oil off the Shimano pads to calling turkeys with the Codes.


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## sakucee (Mar 29, 2011)

New XT's and XTR's are like, stupid easy to bleed, imho.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

sakucee said:


> New XT's and XTR's are like, stupid easy to bleed, imho.


Agreed.

I use the Avid bleed kit (give the DOT fluid to someone with Avids) and it works great.

Screws right into the bleed port on the lever and use the push pull method.


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## belljeffw (Feb 10, 2004)

Tiffany239 said:


> They are not the easiest brakes to bleed but what you describe is symptomatic of a bad bleed. did you use the Shimano "gravity-style" bleed method or Avid's "push-pull" method?


I used the Avid syringes with the one on the top left open. When I cut the lines initially I only used the top syringe. I depressed the brakes slightly with the pads out, cut and reattached the lines, then spread the pistons with the top syringe in place. When I installed the new lines, I pushed the air out from below as Shimano showed in their video.

The brakes are strong and don't need to be pumped at all. The pads just end up with oil on them periodically. I have been thinking I did a poor job of installing the Jagwire lines and they could be seeping very slowly somewhere. With the brakes depressed for hours, though, I can never see any oil leaking from anywhere. It just sort of shows up after a few days of riding.


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## Davey G (Nov 25, 2010)

I too have two sets and i think they are easy to bleed. That's coming from being someone who works on cars though so i find doing anything on a MTB pretty straightforward to do in comparison. 

Overall, now that i've had a few rides with the XT's i can understand why so many people are liking them. To me, they are exactly what a brake should be like. They inspire total confidence no matter the conditions or terrain.

If anyone ever has any doubts over their braking system this will cause them to ride slower. I learned this doing car track days. Once you have a reliable and powerful braking system in place you can forget about them (apart from maintenance) and let yourself focus more on the fun stuff at hand.


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

Davey G said:


> If anyone ever has any doubts over their braking system this will cause them to ride slower. I learned this doing car track days. Once you have a reliable and powerful braking system in place you can forget about them (apart from maintenance) and let yourself focus more on the fun stuff at hand.


Truth.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

NielsJ said:


> I shortened the hoses with this guide, and no bleeding was needed


Awesome. Thanks for that. I've only had Avids for years and it's nice to know I don't have to buy another bleed kit just to get the XTs on the bike.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Just ordered them. Looking forward to less troubles than I've had with avids. 

Our forum buddy bikerbob.com had the best deal on the whole package of f+r, 2 ice tech rotors and the rear adaptor. :thumbsup:


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

OO7 said:


> Truth.


Church!


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## madwing (May 10, 2012)

92gli said:


> Just ordered them. Looking forward to less troubles than I've had with avids.
> 
> Our forum buddy bikerbob.com had the best deal on the whole package of f+r, 2 ice tech rotors and the rear adaptor. :thumbsup:


i can't even see they sell shimano...any link, or did you call?


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

He doesnt really update his site, it a mostly referral biz. Send him a pm. Or email [email protected]. He already shipped too. Sick. I'll probably have them on the bike for my after work ride friday.:thumbsup:


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## 40er (Dec 4, 2011)

I did just like a lot of us changed from avid to shimano, latest the XT ice tech. extremely reliable, i'm not going to say easy to bleed because you really don't need to bleed them. pistons centralize themselves..they are awesome. the avid do modulate a little better, but not enough to offset all other shimano benefits. now i have one bike with exlir 9 and one with xt's and is clear that with the avid brakes I use 2 fingers, with the xt 1 finger.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Those brakes seems like the shizz. I wish I had the money for a set.


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

broke mine in today...just need to cut some hoses


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## madwing (May 10, 2012)

92gli said:


> He doesnt really update his site, it a mostly referral biz. Send him a pm. Or email. He already shipped too. Sick. I'll probably have them on the bike for my after work ride friday.:thumbsup:


I called and had a great conversation with him. :thumbsup: I am going to sleep on his invoice, then most probably pull the trigger tomorrow before work.

I just bought my first FS bike, a 2007 nomad, and the original juicy 7 rear caliper piston has cracked and won't retract. So rather than but an elixir 5 caliper, I am going to spend the extra dosh and start out right.

Thanks for the bob tip!


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## B.BL (Nov 6, 2005)

Can someone tell me which adaptor is needed for 180mm rear PM-PM? This one seems to be hard to find.


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## Billinsd (May 10, 2012)

I have a Scott 29 Comp with Tektro Draco Disc Brakes and 180/F and 160/R mm Rotors. What adapters would I need and would I need new rotors?
Thanks
Bill


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## madwing (May 10, 2012)

what is the *deal* here, with the "what is love" music in the background, and how the HELL do i turn it off?


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Seriously, wtf is up with that music?


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

I wish you would stop putting that $hit in your post...flagged!



David C said:


> Those brakes seems like the shizz. I wish I had the money for a set


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

madwing said:


> what is the *deal* here, with the "what is love" music in the background, and how the HELL do i turn it off?


It's David C's post.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Nvm


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Back on topic, I'm wondering if anyone else has had a problem with a piston dragging. My front caliper works great, no problems and runs smooth with no rubbing. However, the outside piston on the rear caliper rubs just a little bit. When I look down on the caliper you can see space between the rotor and inside piston, but the outside piston is touching.

I've taken off the wheel, pressed the pistons outward, and then put the wheel back on. After a couple brake lever pumps, all is well and the the wheel spins smooth....in the garage. But once out on the trail the outside piston migrates inwards and appears to get stuck. Any suggestions?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> Back on topic, I'm wondering if anyone else has had a problem with a piston dragging. My front caliper works great, no problems and runs smooth with no rubbing. However, the outside piston on the rear caliper rubs just a little bit. When I look down on the caliper you can see space between the rotor and inside piston, but the outside piston is touching.
> 
> I've taken off the wheel, pressed the pistons outward, and then put the wheel back on. After a couple brake lever pumps, all is well and the the wheel spins smooth....in the garage. But once out on the trail the outside piston migrates inwards and appears to get stuck. Any suggestions?


Are your rear end flexing under your body weight ? That could make enough to set the rotor out of alignment once your bike get enough weight on it to move the axle a bit if it's not properly secured in place.


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## madwing (May 10, 2012)

cheers, twoheads.

just ordered from bob, they should be here in a few days (if i am lucky, maaaaybe by the weekend!).

can't wait!


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> Back on topic, I'm wondering if anyone else has had a problem with a piston dragging. My front caliper works great, no problems and runs smooth with no rubbing. However, the outside piston on the rear caliper rubs just a little bit. When I look down on the caliper you can see space between the rotor and inside piston, but the outside piston is touching.
> 
> I've taken off the wheel, pressed the pistons outward, and then put the wheel back on. After a couple brake lever pumps, all is well and the the wheel spins smooth....in the garage. But once out on the trail the outside piston migrates inwards and appears to get stuck. Any suggestions?


You might need to clean and lube the pistons.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Is there any way to do that without having to bleed/refill the system? And I'm assuming you use mineral oil to lube the pistons?


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Yeah you just remove the pads and give the lever a little squeeze to get the pistons out a bit.
Be sure you do push them all the way out.
clean them up with some Alcohol and a qtip.
Lube the edges of the pistons with mineral oil.
push the pistons back it with a tire lever.
reinstall the pads.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Won't the pistons pop out and leak fluid everywhere? I'm not familiar with MTB brakes, but I've had this happen on motorcycles before.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

that's why you have to be careful that you only extract them a little bit.
You could just use the yellow spacer block if you wanted to be extra careful.
I'll try to find the link the article I got the info from.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

cool, I think I still have the yellow spacer in my toolbox. I actually found this article about the "Brake Reset" procedure, and it sounds like my problem might be one of a dominant piston. Basically, there is more fluid in the dominant side than the other. When the lever is released, the same amount of fluid is sucked out of the caliper, but the imbalance still exists. This says to hold the dominant side piston and apply the brake lever slightly so both pistons are exposed equally. Then clean, oil, etc...and center the caliper once the wheel is back on. I'm going to give it a try and see if that works.

http://bike.shimano.com/publish/con...wnloadFile.html/04) Brake Reset Procedure.pdf


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

That's the link I was looking for.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Got my brakes yesterday from bob (48 hours after ordering, just awesome :thumbsup. Some observations -

- Weighed front brake assembly without bolts, hoses cut to equal length : Elixir CR carbon - 242g, XT 286g. I knew they were heavier but I was hoping it would be closer. Two things I think contribute to most of the difference. 1- The pads with the ice tech fins felt twice as heavy as avid alloy backed metallic pads when holding them in my hands (I'll weigh them at some point, forgot last night). 2- The whole clamp area of the xt levers is massive overkill, its BURLY. I don't know if breaking levers off your bars in a crash is common but it's never happened to me. I guess there's no chance now, can't see how you could break these. The hinge on the clamp is a nice thought, but not when you need to grab a second tool to get the hinge to open. It seems like shimanos lawyers are obsessed with the idea that every bolt needs a safety backup.

- After dealing with 4 different sets of Avids over the years, I couldn't believe how easy shimanos set up. After I centered the calipers over the rotors, put the pads back in, and did a few hard stops to bed the pads, all signs of rub were totally, magically gone. And bleed free line shortening... a miracle.

- I love the one finger levers. Now I just need to train myself not to ever take my middle finger off the grips. Which leads to...

- The power of these brakes is ridiculous. And you can access ALL of it with your index finger. Just running up and down the street doing my break in stops, I could easily lock up my rear tire on the asphalt with all of my weight on the seat. But they modulate amazingly. Its not like you go from moderate power to full lock out of nowhere - its a smooth transition all the way. 

- After doing a bunch of break in stops I felt the fins on the pads - very hot, and the caliper - barely warm. Neat. These pads appear to worth the weight penalty. They really do what shimano claims.

Real riding later today. Will post more.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Have two rides on them now, they are just awesome. My only (very minor) complaint is that the pads rattle a little bit. Other than that, these are the best bike purchase I've made in a long time.


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## creyc (May 24, 2005)

Just got mine setup Friday night to replace a set of Hayes Stroker Trails and predictably these XT's blow them out of the water. I even downsized rotors when I switched brakes 8" -> 7" front, 7" -> 6" rear and these STILL have wayy more power and infinitely better feel.

They were a piece of cake to adjust hose length, no need for bleeding, and setup and centering was simple and straightforward.

I've tried Elixirs, Juicy's, Hope and TONS of different Hayes brakes and nothing matches these for feel, modulation and power. I'm sold


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## Reign2Rider (Jan 28, 2010)

Just got these sorted the other day. I too was a little concerned about the power of them when doing my break in routine. 

I came from hayes stroker ryde's which definitely required 2 fingers, now I've switched to one finger. 7" front 6" rear ice tec rotors.

Taken them on two rides so far on local singletrack and love them, awesome power.

Keeping a lookout for weeping banjo's etc but all good so far. Shortened the hoses without incident, I was sure I would have to bleed them but no.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Just as an update to my dragging pad problem:

I took off the pads, sprayed everything down with rubbing alcohol, and lubed up the pistons with mineral oil. I reset the pads to that they are now moving the same distance. Put everything back together and went for a ride today, and problem solved! I think all the wet and dirty rides over the winter just clogged the pistons up with junk. When I pumped the brakes without the pads in there, one side was definitely sticking more than the other.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Regarding the bleed free hose shortening - 

It worked at first, but apparently you are still going to get air into the lever no matter how careful you are.

My bike stayed upright up to my first ride with the brakes on friday. Then my bike hung upside down in my garage until yesterday afternoon. When I took the bike down both levers went straight to the grips. So, you may want to just bleed them right away for safety's sake.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I did the bleed-free hose shortening technique and got air in my line. Interestingly though, on the opposite side brake I simply cut the line, replaced the olive, added a drop of oil to the cut end, and reinserted the line into the lever. That side is solid and free of air.


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## indiafox14 (Jun 21, 2011)

Wanted to try this breaks,,,


Indiafox


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## Reign2Rider (Jan 28, 2010)

Nat said:


> I did the bleed-free hose shortening technique and got air in my line. Interestingly though, on the opposite side brake I simply cut the line, replaced the olive, added a drop of oil to the cut end, and reinserted the line into the lever. That side is solid and free of air.


I also added a drop of oil in the cut end and flicked making sure no air bubble in there. Seems fine so far but will get round to bleeding properly when i get the bits.


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

92gli said:


> Regarding the bleed free hose shortening -
> 
> It worked at first, but apparently you are still going to get air into the lever no matter how careful you are.
> 
> My bike stayed upright up to my first ride with the brakes on friday. Then my bike hung upside down in my garage until yesterday afternoon. When I took the bike down both levers went straight to the grips. So, you may want to just bleed them right away for safety's sake.


same thing happened to me, they were fine till I hung my bike upside down.

Bled them and now they are hard no matter what the bike does.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

If you need to get the air out, don't bother with the shimano bleed kit. If you get some small tubing and a squeeze bottle you can do a "bottom up" flush of the brake fluid. Catch the excess mineral oil with a rag at the lever reservoir, or fashion your own fluid catching device. Or, it's about $25 to have a shop do it.


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## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

Looking to purchase a set within the next few days, where is the best/cheapest place to get them?


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Universal Cycles - $156 for brakes
XT IceTech Rotors ~$60 ea.

Use coupon code VIP15 for 15% off orders over $300. $371 after discount for 2 brakes and 2 rotors. Free shipping and no sales tax.

Amazon.com - $137 for brakes, $50 for rotors = $367


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> Universal Cycles - $156 for brakes
> XT IceTech Rotors ~$60 ea.
> 
> Use coupon code VIP15 for 15% off orders over $300. $371 after discount for 2 brakes and 2 rotors. Free shipping and no sales tax.
> ...


Bikerbob beats both of those including a rear IS adapter. Just sayin


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

awesomesauce, how about a link? I don't see it here...


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## Duncan1104 (Aug 4, 2007)

In case anyone cares, these brakes can be bled using Avid/Reverb syringes. The fittings that come with these syringes will thread right into the master cylinder. Worked perfect and a lot less messy than the way the old Shimanos needed to be bled.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> awesomesauce, how about a link? I don't see it here...


Email him. He's too busy shipping like a ninja to update his site  [email protected]


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

blueskycycling.com


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

Shimano XT M785 Pre-Bled Disc Brake Set


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## belljeffw (Feb 10, 2004)

$121 from Nashbar. I used the price match on Jenson and got free shipping as well. Of course, I am replacing a set I can't get to stop leaking, but that's a different story..


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## Porschefan (Jan 14, 2011)

belljeffw said:


> $121 from Nashbar. I used the price match on Jenson and got free shipping as well. Of course, I am replacing a set I can't get to stop leaking, but that's a different story..


That's as cheap as I have seen them, but BikerBob has them for $125 with the Ice-Tech pads and adapters (although I'm not clear about what adapters are needed?). Don't know about shipping though.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Porschefan said:


> That's as cheap as I have seen them, but BikerBob has them for $125 with the Ice-Tech pads and adapters (although I'm not clear about what adapters are needed?). Don't know about shipping though.


Adapters depend on rotor size and what mounts your frame and fork have. On post mount forks you need an adapter for 180 and 200, not for 160. All frames with IS mount will need an adapter. Post mount frames usually take 160 without one and need one for 180 and 200.

Everything bob ships is in retail packaging with the bleed blocks and extra olives and barbs.


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## Porschefan (Jan 14, 2011)

92gli said:


> Adapters depend on rotor size and what mounts your frame and fork have. On post mount forks you need an adapter for 180 and 200, not for 160. All frames with IS mount will need an adapter. Post mount frames usually take 160 without one and need one for 180 and 200.
> 
> Everything bob ships is in retail packaging with the bleed blocks and extra olives and barbs.


Thanks for the clarification. That's kind of what I thought, but not a lot of experience. I'd go for the BikerBob deal if I could talk myself into *another* upgrade. I have a 180mm RT76 rotor to install on a new wheelset and I bought the 160 to 180 front adapter. Would BikerBob have supplied that also? In that case his is strictly a no-brainer purchase.


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## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

got mine in the mail today, but the site stated they were in black and came in silver, not sure if I want to just deal with the silver or return and try to get the black. A little disappointing since its a holiday weekend and I can't get a hold of anyone til tuesday, but if I keep them I can install them asap!


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## Argus (Jul 13, 2011)

Ordered mine from merlin cycles, 235 $ a pair, that's 117 $ a brake; Plus you get like 11 $ off for the brakes, rotors and adaptors. When ordering a full set, shipping is free also ! Great deal !


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## Tig3rHawk (Apr 8, 2012)

Argus said:


> Ordered mine from merlin cycles, 235 $ a pair, that's 117 $ a brake; Plus you get like 11 $ off for the brakes, rotors and adaptors. When ordering a full set, shipping is free also ! Great deal !


Ordered! Thanks for the heads up.

Is there a reason the pictures don't show the heatsinks on the Shimano XT M785s?


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## Reign2Rider (Jan 28, 2010)

If that's Merlin Cycles in the UK then they don't come with the heatsink pads. They come with non-finned organic pads. Quite annoying had to buy the pads somewhere else and they arn't cheap.


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## Tig3rHawk (Apr 8, 2012)

Reign2Rider said:


> If that's Merlin Cycles in the UK then they don't come with the heatsink pads. They come with non-finned organic pads. Quite annoying had to buy the pads somewhere else and they arn't cheap.


Interesting. Not what I wanted to hear.

May have to cancel my order, considering the price of the heat sinked pads.


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## Tig3rHawk (Apr 8, 2012)

They sent me and email back letting me know they do come with the finned trail pads. fyi.


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## Argus (Jul 13, 2011)

Tig3rHawk said:


> They sent me and email back letting me know they do come with the finned trail pads. fyi.


How weird, I emailed them about the same thing and said they were'nt coming with finned pads ! :skep: I guess it'll be a surprise when I'll open my box


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## Tig3rHawk (Apr 8, 2012)

Their exact reply.

This is what I ordered:
1 x Shimano XT M785 Disc Brake Set - Front & Rear - Black @ GBP 145.79 = GBP 145.79



"Hi X,


I can confirm the pads supplied on the brakes are the Trail version, so come with fins to keep the heat down.


Regards,

Phil
Merlin Cycles Sales
+44 (0)1772 432431
twitter.com/merlincycles"


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## Reign2Rider (Jan 28, 2010)

Hmm weird. When mine came with the non-finned pads i emailed them about it saying i expected finned pads. Their reply -

* "The brakes which we have in stock do not come with the finned pads I am afraid. They do take the finned pads of course but they are supplied with standard. When it comes to replacing the pads you could fit the finned type. Otherwise we can happily take the brakes back for refund if they are not required.
Kind regards
Daniel "*


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## Argus (Jul 13, 2011)

Tig3rHawk said:


> Their exact reply.
> 
> This is what I ordered:
> 1 x Shimano XT M785 Disc Brake Set - Front & Rear - Black @ GBP 145.79 = GBP 145.79
> ...


By the look of the message merlin sent you, it looks like the guy was talking about xtr trail brakes, which are the only brakes pictured with those pads on merlin website!


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

Blueskycycling has them for $109 a side.


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## Tig3rHawk (Apr 8, 2012)

Well, I shot Merlin another email just to double verify.  Even though they have already been shipped.

Also wish I would have just used BlueSky... Oh well.

Reign2Rider did you end up using the organic pads? How well did they work for you?


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## Porschefan (Jan 14, 2011)

Mr. Lynch said:


> Blueskycycling has them for $109 a side.


Wow...best price I've ever seen and they come with the Ice-Tech pads.

They even have the Ice Tech rotors on sale too.

Very tempting.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

They also have SLX for $89. I'm considering them for my wife's bike.


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## Reign2Rider (Jan 28, 2010)

Tig3rHawk said:


> Well, I shot Merlin another email just to double verify.  Even though they have already been shipped.
> 
> Also wish I would have just used BlueSky... Oh well.
> 
> Reign2Rider did you end up using the organic pads? How well did they work for you?


I didn't try the organic pads. I'm sure they will work pretty good though. Often wet around here so not best conditions for organic pads life.


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## Argus (Jul 13, 2011)

Tig3rHawk said:


> Well, I shot Merlin another email just to double verify.  Even though they have already been shipped.
> 
> Also wish I would have just used BlueSky... Oh well.
> 
> Reign2Rider did you end up using the organic pads? How well did they work for you?


Which rotor size are you running ? For 180mm the price is the same ( you need to buy a rear adaptor even if a 160 mm one is included ) , you just pay shipping on bluesky, which would've added 35$ to my bill.


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

I just went for a quick ride around the block on my new XT 785. WOW. totally shits on my old avid juciy brakes


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

and by old i mean, 2011 avid


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## Tig3rHawk (Apr 8, 2012)

Do you install the IceTech rotors too?


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

i installed the icetech rotors on mine
works great, so easy to set up


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

I use blueskycycling a lot and always quick shipping and trouble free returns!


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## Tig3rHawk (Apr 8, 2012)

I sent another email to Merlin and they told me again that they DO come with the IceTech pads.


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## Reign2Rider (Jan 28, 2010)

Well, will be interesting to see what you all end up with. If you get finned pads then i'm gonna get onto them again... feeling kinda robbed 

Please let us know how it goes.


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## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

Got my brakes installed, took the bike around the block to bed them in and damn do these things have some power. My only concern is that the front caliper seems to make some odd noise rubbing against my rotors. It doesn't do it all the time, I thought I saw somewhere on the forums some trick to quiet the pads down if this did happen. Any idea's?


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## Tig3rHawk (Apr 8, 2012)

Got the brakes from Merlin today and they DID come with the IceTech finned pads.


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## Reign2Rider (Jan 28, 2010)

God damn!! Are they the organic or metal finned pads? I'm firing off an email right now.


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## jvbphotos (Jun 1, 2012)

interesting thread!

looking to upgrade my avid elixir setup (stock on my rumblefish), and although my last rig had a full XT brake setup, i've not messed about with discs before. my two questions:

1) does anyone know if the XT brake levers mount to XTR shifters as easily as to the XT ones? I would imagine they do. 
2) when building a performance car, I tend to shoehorn the largest rotor possible into the wheel. so i'm looking at the 203mm rotors. anyone have any reason (aside from fitment, which isn't an issue with my current fork [rs revelation rl] or the one i'd like to upgrade to [revelation rct3]) not to go with the beeeg rotors?

brakes are the first upgrade im going for; this is a really great source of info on XT brakes!


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

jvbphotos said:


> interesting thread!
> 
> looking to upgrade my avid elixir setup (stock on my rumblefish), and although my last rig had a full XT brake setup, i've not messed about with discs before. my two questions:
> 
> ...


Bigger rotors = more weight and easier to warp. That's pretty much the only downside.

You get better heat dissipation and greater stopping power, but it's a lot easier to lock up the wheels.


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## atabakshahidi (Apr 18, 2011)

I have a little problem, my right lever returns back a bit slower than the left lever, it doesn't affect the performance though ,any help?


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## Argus (Jul 13, 2011)

Got my brakes from merlin yesterday, they do come with finned pads !! However the brakes are british style.. inverted !!


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## bt (Nov 24, 2007)

atabakshahidi said:


> I have a little problem, my right lever returns back a bit slower than the left lever, it doesn't affect the performance though ,any help?


maybe something to do with it being a longer run to the rear?

my rear brake always felt like it had a touch more pulling in resistance compared to the front.


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## atabakshahidi (Apr 18, 2011)

bt said:


> maybe something to do with it being a longer run to the rear?
> 
> my rear brake always felt like it had a touch more pulling in resistance compared to the front.


Well, I think that way too but don't know if it's true , other opinions?


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

I didn't read all the posts but I must say my XTs are stellar. My 12' XOs gobble and grab. Hopefully I can find a cure. The XOs do seem stronger.


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## Tig3rHawk (Apr 8, 2012)

Argus said:


> Got my brakes from merlin yesterday, they do come with finned pads !! However the brakes are british style.. inverted !!


Yep I noticed that too. But I actually like it because it matches my motorcycle for the front brake on the right.


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## WVBikr (May 18, 2009)

Has anyone bought the brake set but not the matching rotors?


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## Argus (Jul 13, 2011)

Yeah, I'll try this setup and see how it goes; Otherwise I'll switch the hoses.

Anyone got problems with rear rotor rubbing ? The front one is perfect though. I tried to align my rear caliper numerous times, it's still rubbing.

My piston are not really out, when removing the pads I can push the pistons back into the caliper easily.
There is not too much pressure in the system, I opened the bleed port on the lever to let go of the excess oil when I trimmed my hoses.

Any ideas ?


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

Ive been running my XT brakes for 5 months with avid 203/185 rotors and i used the avid mounts.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

Mr. Lynch said:


> Ive been running my XT brakes for 5 months with avid 203/185 rotors and i used the avid mounts.


And all is well? No issues? I am just about to do the exact same setup.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

All is good! Everything lined up just fine and the braking power is incredible. 
Whats funny is with Avid brakes the turkey gobble noise always seemed to be blamed the G2 and G3 rotors, but my 2012 XT and 2012 Deore brakes have never made that noise with G3 rotors. The Elixir and Juicy brakes they replaced sure did though.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

Mr. Lynch said:


> All is good! Everything lined up just fine and the braking power is incredible.
> Whats funny is with Avid brakes the turkey gobble noise always seemed to be blamed the G2 and G3 rotors, but my 2012 XT and 2012 Deore brakes have never made that noise with G3 rotors. The Elixir and Juicy brakes they replaced sure did though.


Curious, you mention both the Deore and XT...I was looking at the SLX to save a little coin, do you find the Deore's to be good too? Got to figure the SLX's sit right in between those...thanks!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

did my first ride with the new XT brakes
finally, exactly what i was looking for
was so easy to get used to them. they were predictable within the first 5 min of riding my favorite trail
not only that, but the brakes were so easy to modulate that i could easily trail brake, and get the rear end to slide in a controlled manner. something i could never do with my 2011 avid juicy brakes.

everyone should have these


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## B.BL (Nov 6, 2005)

azbeerguy said:


> And all is well? No issues? I am just about to do the exact same setup.


I run that setup too. I prefer the avid rotos over the shimano ones. I just had to use the avid mounts. No issues so far, but i'll do my final judgement when i've done 500km.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

azbeerguy said:


> Curious, you mention both the Deore and XT...I was looking at the SLX to save a little coin, do you find the Deore's to be good too? Got to figure the SLX's sit right in between those...thanks!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


The Deore are pretty good, much better than the ]uicy 3s they replaced. they are not as nice as the XT though. A friend of mine got the SLX and they feel pretty much identical to the XT. If i was to do it all over again I'd go SLX on both bikes.


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## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

WVBikr said:


> Has anyone bought the brake set but not the matching rotors?


I'm using the Alligator Serration rotors, only taken them around the block a few times but they seem to work just fine. They were making a little noise but that was just an adjustment to align the caliper. Once that was done they've quieted down like they should be.


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## atabakshahidi (Apr 18, 2011)

Mr. Lynch said:


> Ive been running my XT brakes for 5 months with avid 203/185 rotors and i used the avid mounts.


Exactly like me, this combination is great


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## atabakshahidi (Apr 18, 2011)

Mr. Lynch said:


> All is good! Everything lined up just fine and the braking power is incredible.
> Whats funny is with Avid brakes the turkey gobble noise always seemed to be blamed the G2 and G3 rotors, but my 2012 XT and 2012 Deore brakes have never made that noise with G3 rotors. The Elixir and Juicy brakes they replaced sure did though.


I changed my avid brakes with xts because of the annoying gobble, and now I run shimano with g3 rotors which used to make noise with avid, no noise anymore, I believe avid pads are the problem.


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

my front xt's do make some noise when in use, but not my rear..any suggestions on how to remedy it?


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

yeti575inCA said:


> my front xt's do make some noise when in use, but not my rear..any suggestions on how to remedy it?


Decontaminate. Clean the pads and rotor with isopropyl alcohol. If that doesn't do it try burning/heating the pads until they stop smoking.


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## Neo-ST (Aug 25, 2011)

Hi all.

I've just ordered these brakes (new) and I have some questions...

1. Will they work well with my current rotors, the 2012 Sram HS-1, 203/180 ?
It's these: Avid HS1 Heat Shedding Rotor Brake Rotors Reviews

HS1 rotor

They replace the "old" G3 rotors.

2. If I would need to shorten the hoses, how do I do that ?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Neo-ST said:


> 2. If I would need to shorten the hoses, how do I do that ?


easy job


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## 40er (Dec 4, 2011)

Neo-ST said:


> Hi all.
> 
> I've just ordered these brakes (new) and I have some questions...
> 
> ...


Neo

My Humble opinion is:

1. By not using the Shimano Ice tech rotors, you are defeating the purpose of the design. I don't know if they will work or not, but I would advise against it.

2. Shorten the hoses see clewttu it works, but as a summary.
* Make sure you have the a new olive and needle fitting.
* remove the break pads.
* pump with the lever the pistons enough so you have about 3/4 of them out. do it slow to make sure you get them all the way out.
* remove hose from lever end, there may be drip of oil from the reservoir, put a rag.
* keep the hose bitter end pointing up.
*recommend use the yellow vice holders that come with it, and a vice or pliers to make the cut.
* use sharp blade for a straight cut.
* install new olive and end fitting, and tighten blot until you can tell a noticble difference.
* push back the pistons with tire lever. it helps to open the bleed port (black) on top of the reservoir, but go slow so you don't burp oil.
* put pads and use the orange spacer and press lever against it a few time to center pads.
* may need to push the pads back in one mere time.


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## B.BL (Nov 6, 2005)

Neo-ST said:


> Hi all.
> 1. Will they work well with my current rotors, the 2012 Sram HS-1, 203/180 ?


They do. I use those rotors, you just have to use the avid mounting hardware.


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## Neo-ST (Aug 25, 2011)

40er said:


> 1. By not using the Shimano Ice tech rotors, you are defeating the purpose of the design. I don't know if they will work or not, but I would advise against it.


I know but I'm still balancing whether to spend $120 on rotors...icetechs are not cheap :/
If I do buy Icetechs later, will that create problems since pads will be bedded in on HS1's ?

EDIT: Sorry, what's olive?



B.BL said:


> They do. I use those rotors, you just have to use the avid mounting hardware.


They work really good or did you notice they could work better? I already do have Avid's adapters (from Elixirs 7SL).



clewttu said:


> easy job


Thanks man :thumbsup:


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## 40er (Dec 4, 2011)

see the link.

Shimano Olive and barb-insert kit, BH90 (M985/980/785/666)


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## B.BL (Nov 6, 2005)

Neo-ST said:


> They work really good or did you notice they could work better? I already do have Avid's adapters (from Elixirs 7SL).


I have them for only 100km so far - and theres nothing to complain about yet (edit: the rear ones howled for some time, but i got rid of this with a clean&alignment routine) They work the way i would expect my brakes to work (as opposed to avid...), no stuttering or weird annoyances, brake power is there when applying the brakes lighty and increases nicely with more force at the lever. And they got loads of 'power' - much more than the avids, i think the 8 inch rotor is quite much for those brakes. Brake track of the xt brakes is narrower than avid brakes, so they fit the HS1 rotors well. Actually, sent the shimano rotors back, because i decided against them in the last moment. I dont like the large cutouts, i preferred the HS1 with the small holes and thicker material.

btw. i run them on a '12 stumpy comp evo as well


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## Neo-ST (Aug 25, 2011)

Nice to hear that :thumbsup:

I was just reading about hose shortening procedure, where do I buy a new olive and needle fitting? I didn't know I'd need that 
Do you think LBS will have that or do I need to order from the internet, for example from a link that 40er provided ? :madman:


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## madwing (May 10, 2012)

WVBikr said:


> Has anyone bought the brake set but not the matching rotors?


i didn't buy the ice tech rotors, but did buy shimano 6-bolt 180/160 rotors for mine. the IS adapter bikerbob sent for the back worked perfectly, but he only had a post mount adapter for the front...so i am using my old avid adapter until i decide to get a shimano adapter (if ever). great breaks, if a bit squeaky.


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## madwing (May 10, 2012)

clewttu said:


> easy job


i just bought a nomad after not biking for 20 years, and bought these brakes (bikerbob rules!). i am not particularly mechanically inclined, nor am i 5-thumbs...and i managed to get the lines shortened just fine using those instructions.:thumbsup:


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## B.BL (Nov 6, 2005)

Neo-ST said:


> I was just reading about hose shortening procedure, where do I buy a new olive and needle fitting? I didn't know I'd need that
> Do you think LBS will have that or do I need to order from the internet, for example from a link that 40er provided ? :madman:


The olive and insert comes with the xt brakes in the box. There is this yellow hose-holder, that comes with the front brake only, for some weird reason.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

madwing said:


> i just bought a nomad after not biking for 20 years, and bought these brakes (bikerbob rules!). i am not particularly mechanically inclined, nor am i 5-thumbs...and i managed to get the lines shortened just fine using those instructions.:thumbsup:


Just be aware that it's very likely there is a little air pocket in the lever reservoir, that can get into the lines, if you hang your bike upside down or lay it down in the car or truck.

Even with the whole "extend the pistons and then press them back in" thing you are still losing fluid volume from the lever when you pull the line out. *For safety's sake a proper bleed from the caliper to the reservoir is the best practice. *


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## shredjekyll (Jun 3, 2012)

92gli said:


> Just be aware that it's very likely there is a little air pocket in the lever reservoir, that can get into the lines, if you hang your bike upside down or lay it down in the car or truck.
> 
> Even with the whole "extend the pistons and then press them back in" thing you are still losing fluid volume from the lever when you pull the line out. *For safety's sake a proper bleed from the caliper to the reservoir is the best practice. *


I have to agree, I just recently shortened my line without a bleed and everything was perfectly fine, BUT I decided that bleeding them just to be safe was absolutely worth it. :thumbsup:


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## thaicook (Jun 5, 2012)

Gripo said:


> 2 things to watch........if you have the 2012 XT/XTR's
> 
> *Hose crimp on the banjo (caliper) ends of the hoses leak
> *Leakage of brake fluid from pistons seal


That's a worry, I'm on the look-out for some new brakes, as whilst my brakes work fine, I'm not sure about the look of them, AND as you can see from the pic below, they seem to be leaking...


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

*leaky 2012 brakes*

I have a couple hundred miles on my XT brakes and there's no sign of leakage--does this problem usually show up pretty quickly, and I'm good, or should I still be concerned?

Thanks!


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

SteveF said:


> I have a couple hundred miles on my XT brakes and there's no sign of leakage--does this problem usually show up pretty quickly, and I'm good, or should I still be concerned?
> 
> Thanks!


My XTRs started leaking after a full season, it can take a while.


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## thaicook (Jun 5, 2012)

To some extent, do all hydraulic brakes leak?


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

thaicook said:


> To some extent, do all hydraulic brakes leak?


No...


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## PointBoy (Jan 12, 2004)

I just had XT brakes installed on my second bike this week and noticed a horrible rattling noise coming from the back brake. I'm pretty sure that its the actual brake pad heat sink banging against the caliper housing. I have the same brakes on my other bike (minus the heat sinks on the pads) and they do not make this sound. I found a video on Youtube where a guy wraps a cut up tube around the brake pad to eliminate the sound. Anyone else have this problem?

XT M785 Brake Tip - YouTube


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

D'oh! Thanks, I'll keep an eye on them...


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## PerthMTB (May 2, 2011)

> I just had XT brakes installed on my second bike this week and noticed a horrible rattling noise coming from the back brake. I'm pretty sure that its the actual brake pad heat sink banging against the caliper housing. I have the same brakes on my other bike (minus the heat sinks on the pads) and they do not make this sound. I found a video on Youtube where a guy wraps a cut up tube around the brake pad to eliminate the sound. Anyone else have this problem?


I took the sintered Ice-tec finned pads out of my new brakes and replaced them with resin non-finned variety. I prefer the feel of resin pads anyway, and have never overheated a set of brakes yet. As a nice bonus the money I got for seIling the originals pads was half the cost of the brakes!


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

PointBoy said:


> I just had XT brakes installed on my second bike this week and noticed a horrible rattling noise coming from the back brake.


try opening up the spring that opens up the pads, should quiet it down


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

92gli said:


> Just be aware that it's very likely there is a little air pocket in the lever reservoir, that can get into the lines, if you hang your bike upside down or lay it down in the car or truck.
> 
> Even with the whole "extend the pistons and then press them back in" thing you are still losing fluid volume from the lever when you pull the line out. *For safety's sake a proper bleed from the caliper to the reservoir is the best practice. *


i second this, when i shortened mine i didnt need to rebleed the front but def did on the rear, and before i bled i turned it upside down just to see how solid the front would be...no bueno
the nice thing is, you dont really need to do a "full" bleed, just a simple syringe with a few cc's of mineral oil at the caliper to push the air out through the levers/reservoir


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

Mine took 3 months to develop a leak. I took it into the shop and Shimano gave them an RMA for a complete rear brake. I went in last week to find out what was taking so long and they had changed their mind. They would not ship out a new complete brake at all. The said that they would put a new hose in the mail in a day or two. 

Thankfully, the shop ordered a new one in and gave it to me and said that they would deal with Shimano. 

Good luck


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## Neo-ST (Aug 25, 2011)

B.BL said:


> I have them for only 100km so far - and theres nothing to complain about yet (edit: the rear ones howled for some time, but i got rid of this with a clean&alignment routine) They work the way i would expect my brakes to work (as opposed to avid...), no stuttering or weird annoyances, brake power is there when applying the brakes lighty and increases nicely with more force at the lever. And they got loads of 'power' - much more than the avids, i think the 8 inch rotor is quite much for those brakes. Brake track of the xt brakes is narrower than avid brakes, so they fit the HS1 rotors well. Actually, sent the shimano rotors back, because i decided against them in the last moment. I dont like the large cutouts, i preferred the HS1 with the small holes and thicker material.
> 
> btw. i run them on a '12 stumpy comp evo as well


Just to let you all know, I've installed the new brakes. Mounted them on existing adapters and HS1 rotors, they fit like a glove, I didn't even have to shorten the hoses - they match to previous ones length. They're still breaking in, but even so I can already feel what a beast they are...
Thank you all for advices and everything :thumbsup:


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## wal (May 20, 2012)

pro tip - for those ordering a new pair of these, make sure you know the hose length you're getting ... really fun getting a 1400mm hose when you were expecting a 1700mm hose ...


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

I got my set tonight for $120 per wheel. I slapped them on, did the driveway test, and realized just how f*cking dangerous my Juicy 7's I had adapted to were. Lucky I haven't hurt myself on those things. 

Real dirt test tomorrow night!


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## bisicklay (Jul 16, 2011)

+1: if you order online (blue sky esp.), make sure the cables are long enough.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

I love my new XT brakes. Destroy my BB7s and Hayes stroker grams in the power and modulation department. Did I mention I got the set for $250? Original packaging and olive and barb included! 

Plan to shorten the hoses without bleeding tomorrow. Plan to open the resevoir prior to pushing the pistons back then plan to top off with fluid. Dont think they will need a bleed but we will see.

A quick question for those that have had them for a while. Does the Servo Cam have a break in period? It feels stiff right at the beginning of the lever stroke then becomes smooth.

Also, I read about keeping your pivots and servo cam lubricated. Do yall think triflow would be best?

Sheepo


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## 40er (Dec 4, 2011)

Sheepo5669 said:


> I love my new XT brakes. Destroy my BB7s and Hayes stroker grams in the power and modulation department. Did I mention I got the set for $250? Original packaging and olive and barb included!
> 
> Plan to shorten the hoses without bleeding tomorrow. Plan to open the resevoir prior to pushing the pistons back then plan to top off with fluid. Dont think they will need a bleed but we will see.
> 
> ...


Thats the one only, and again only, feature that I would give avids over xt. The smooth modulation at the lever. I don't know if it's break in, or just got used to them but my xt have about 6 months and it went away.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

*adjusting the pad contact point*

Installed the 2012 XT brakes yesterday and had my first ride this morning. The braking was great but I would like to be able to adjust them so that the pads contact the rotor earlier in the lever stroke. I was under the impression that the Free Stroke Adjustment screw did just that but it appears to simply move the lever. Anyway to adjust these brakes to make the 
Is the only difference pads contact the rotor earlier in the lever stroke?
Also, is the only difference between the SLX and the XT the free stroke screw?


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

There are 2 adjustments on the XT levers. The one you can turn with your fingers adjusts the lever reach. The pad contact/stroke adjustment is done with a small phillips screwdriver. This pad contact adjustment doesn't seem to actually make any noticeable difference, though.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

jabrabu said:


> . This pad contact adjustment doesn't seem to actually make any noticeable difference, though.


Yeah, that was my experience this morning - turned the "free stroke" screw all the way in and all the way out and the pad contact did not change.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

The free stroke does not change the pad contact point, this is a common misconception. I was looking at my leaking XTR lever which has the same adjustment to figure out how it works. The screw simply pushes more or less on a piston "backing plate", for lack of a better word. This plate then changes how loose the lever is, or as I came to call it, the "negative stroke". When fully screwed, you will be able to push the lever away from the bars. When fully unthreaded, the lever will have no negative stroke at all.

So in a way it does change where the lever is when the pads contact the rotor but you keep a constant pull on the lever whatever setting you choose. In fact, you can get the exact same result by adjusting the reach!

I'm not sure I was clear, english in not my native language...


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## Porschefan (Jan 14, 2011)

*Great deal @ Blue Sky*

Best price I've seen so far:

_*$109.98 ea.*_

Ends tomorrow.

No affiliation, etc., etc.


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## stingray230sx (Jun 5, 2012)

i have been looking at these on bluesky, and i am somewhat confused by the options ie:

front w/160mm 51/74 mm compatible

rear w/160mm IS adapter

front w/180mm IS adapter

front w/180 post adapter

does not specify hose length but im guessing rear means 1400/1700 mm length?
front is shorter?

ok i am building an older bike with 51mm tabs on the rear chainstay
so i guess i can get the rear w/160 and if i want a bigger rotor i can get a shimano adapter for 180 or 203 mm rotors? the shimano calipers are 74mm ? bluesky has shimano adapters that say 203rotor/51mm tabs/74mm caliper so i am guessing shimanos calipers are 74mm spacing?

for the front i need to know what type of mount my fork leg has? have not bought a fork yet so i guess i better wait on the front because it seems as if there are two front mount types? post and IS?

thanks for any help

doug hunt


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## wal (May 20, 2012)

Porschefan said:


> Best price I've seen so far:
> 
> _*$109.98 ea.*_
> 
> ...


as long as a 1400mm rear hose works you, it's a great deal. if it's not long enough, it ends up being a pretty crappy deal.


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## stingray230sx (Jun 5, 2012)

wal said:


> as long as a 1400mm rear hose works you, it's a great deal. if it's not long enough, it ends up being a pretty crappy deal.


why is that? does it cost a lot for a new hose in the correct length?

never mind i googled up the shimano/other hoses, looks about another $50.00 or so if you have to get new lines

doug hunt


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## wendypearl (Jun 22, 2012)

*great *

set the levers horizontal and removed the reservoir bleed screw/cap to allow any air and extra fluid to burp out and then reinstalled the bleed screw/cap, and then they were perfect. )


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## cabra cadabra (Sep 28, 2010)

did my first ride with the XT set-up (203 front, 180 rear, ice tech) on a ride with decent elevation drop of 3000', the brakes are soooo nice. true one-finger as everyone says. coming from Shimano M575.

Doug, IS means the adapter blocks mount on the side and then there are separate screws to hold the calipers on, POST mount for 160 (I think) and 180 just use two screws which go straight through the caliper to the threaded holes on the frame/fork. The 203 POST mount is a little different on my fork in that there are separate holes that are parallel to the caliper to mount he adapter and then tapped holes in the adapter to mount the caliper. They essentially get the increase in radial position of the caliper (from 180 to 203) by moving the caliper up, not back.

got mine at blue sky, no cut/bleed on my 17" Kona Cadabra.

Also got a Gravity Dropper post - it rocks!


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## stingray230sx (Jun 5, 2012)

cabra cadabra said:


> did my first ride with the XT set-up (203 front, 180 rear, ice tech) on a ride with decent elevation drop of 3000', the brakes are soooo nice. true one-finger as everyone says. coming from Shimano M575.
> 
> Doug, IS means the adapter blocks mount on the side and then there are separate screws to hold the calipers on, POST mount for 160 (I think) and 180 just use two screws which go straight through the caliper to the threaded holes on the frame/fork. The 203 POST mount is a little different on my fork in that there are separate holes that are parallel to the caliper to mount he adapter and then tapped holes in the adapter to mount the caliper. They essentially get the increase in radial position of the caliper (from 180 to 203) by moving the caliper up, not back.
> 
> ...


thanks Cadabra,
i guess that means "most" calipers have a 74mm bolt pattern?

never had a disc brake bike before, so im learning as i go....

doug hunt


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## cabra cadabra (Sep 28, 2010)

See:

Disc Brake Mounting Standards

http://forums.mtbr.com/frame-building/post-mount-disc-brake-standard-692117.html

Looks like most everyone/everyone uses 74mm now, but I'm not a shop guy.


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## Mr_O (Apr 30, 2012)

I love these brakes. I swapped bikes with a friend who had some Hays Prime the other day and they felt outright dangerous!


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## Tom83 (Jun 15, 2012)

I switched from Avid Elixir 3 to XT 2012 with Ashima ARO-03 rotors in 180 and 160. Everything works fine, less noise then Avid's and a lot less maintenance needed. I had to trow the Avid's open every day to clean and align. These XT's work flawlessly.


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## atabakshahidi (Apr 18, 2011)

People, I have prepared an article about how to bleed shimano xt brake properly where should I post it?


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## Reign2Rider (Jan 28, 2010)

Start a thread in this section (brake time).


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## atabakshahidi (Apr 18, 2011)

I have these brakes and love them , just I feel that the rear brake lever returns back a little bit slower than the front lever after pressing, this does not affect the performance just want to know if you experience it too


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## Neo-ST (Aug 25, 2011)

I have that symptom too...
Don't know what it is.


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

Ive noticed that too, slightly. more so I notice the rear lever isn't quite as firm as the front lever. My theory is that since the rear has much more hose length, you notice spongier/slower lever feel since there is more hose that can expand. I wish they came with a stronger hose.


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

Nickbm3 said:


> Ive noticed that too, slightly. more so I notice the rear lever isn't quite as firm as the front lever. My theory is that since the rear has much more hose length, you notice spongier/slower lever feel since there is more hose that can expand. I wish they came with a stronger hose.


Mine does the same thing. Does anybody having problem with leaky hose on the crimp end where the caliper is? Mine just started making this loud squealing. I'm not sure if it's the pad that's been contaminated with mineral oil. This resulted to an almost zero brake power


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

digifun said:


> Mine does the same thing. Does anybody having problem with leaky hose on the crimp end where the caliper is? Mine just started making this loud squealing. I'm not sure if it's the pad that's been contaminated with mineral oil. This resulted to an almost zero brake power


Sounds like oil on the pads. That's how mine started and then There was oil obviously coming out of the crimp.

Good luck


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

digifun said:


> Mine does the same thing. Does anybody having problem with leaky hose on the crimp end where the caliper is? Mine just started making this loud squealing. I'm not sure if it's the pad that's been contaminated with mineral oil. This resulted to an almost zero brake power


Check this out with Shimano. There was a thread not too long ago about this exact issue and Shimano was just blasting out warranty replacement calipers, rotors and pads. They should have fix the issue in the 2013 I think. This was also happening on the XTR brakes too.


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

.40AET said:


> Sounds like oil on the pads. That's how mine started and then There was oil obviously coming out of the crimp.
> 
> Good luck


I think that's what it was. I also noticed tiny traces of oil inside the caliper. 
So how did you fix it? Warranty? Or new hoses ?


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

I took them back to get a warranty. Shimano gave the shop a RMA number for a complete rear brake. 2 weeks later it hadn't shipped. When they called Shimano they were told that only a new hose was being sent out. The LBS stepped up to the plate and gave me a new set and said that they would work it out with Shimano. 

I put a set of Jagwire hoses on the day after the new brake was installed.


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## Porschefan (Jan 14, 2011)

bisicklay said:


> +1: if you order online (blue sky esp.), make sure the cables are long enough.


Good point. These are still on sale and I'm tempted so I went and did a rough measurement (without taking the current cable off the bike) and it seems 1400mm is pretty darn close to what's on there now--so not much room for error. Bike is a 2010 Yeti ASR 5 (alloy). Anybody tried this set on that bike?


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## Valtra (Mar 6, 2011)

I have wrecked my '06 XT levers and was thinking of buying XT Trail levers to replace them. Would the 2012s be compatible with my '06 XTR calipers?


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## hitek79 (Oct 24, 2008)

So I'm trying to decide on some new brakes for my Nomad. I have Juicy 7's on there now, and they're horrible. I've just put Saints on my DH bike, and holy ****, they are absolutely amazing. I'm really tempted to put them on my Nomad too, but they are pricy. After reading this thread, it seems like the XT's are great too though. Are these an option, or would I be totally disappointed after using the Saints? Obviously on the vast majority of trail rides I won't be hitting the sames speeds as at the resorts, so I guess that plays into the equation as well. Just looking for some opinions. Thanks!


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

hitek79 said:


> So I'm trying to decide on some new brakes for my Nomad. I have Juicy 7's on there now, and they're horrible. I've just put Saints on my DH bike, and holy ****, they are absolutely amazing. I'm really tempted to put them on my Nomad too, but they are pricy. After reading this thread, it seems like the XT's are great too though. Are these an option, or would I be totally disappointed after using the Saints? Obviously on the vast majority of trail rides I won't be hitting the sames speeds as at the resorts, so I guess that plays into the equation as well. Just looking for some opinions. Thanks!


Coming from a juicy seven, this newer xt are no comparison. Power, modulation and best of all, price just right. The only tiny problem with these are some batches are leaking where the crimp part of the hose meets the banjo fittings. Mine is at the shop waiting for a new hose and brake pads for warranty replacement.


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## Berkley (May 21, 2007)

These are awesome. Never going back to Avid...


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

Awesome they are, but mine leaked after three rides.


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## Alice2012 (Jan 9, 2012)

If it's not leaking one thing that has helped me while bleeding shimano brakes in the past is while squeezing oil into the caliper, tap the caliper lightly on something, this will help force some of the air that might be trapped in a hidden space inside the caliper.


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

Berkley said:


> These are awesome. Never going back to Avid...


ditto!


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## 245044 (Jun 8, 2004)

XT's have plenty of power, but I thought they lacked modulation compared to my Avids. Ridden on a Niner Demo bike.


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## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

I've noticed that, they either seem to be on or off not to much modulation. I was thinking of going from a 180mm to a 160mm front rotor to see if that might help modulation or atleast not so much power. They seem to just lock up everytime.


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

i have a 160mm front and have plenty of power


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

So is Blue Sky the best price for them?


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## crank1979 (Feb 3, 2006)

Triaxtremec said:


> I've noticed that, they either seem to be on or off not to much modulation. I was thinking of going from a 180mm to a 160mm front rotor to see if that might help modulation or atleast not so much power. They seem to just lock up everytime.


I had this problem with the rear brake, which I've never had before. My solution was to change the Kenda SB8 tyre to a Maxxis Ardent. Much better braking traction, no more locking up and no real increase in rolling resistance. No modulation problems front or rear now.:thumbsup:


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

I have 3 sets of these brakes, but on one bike the rear brake seems to be getting contaminated with oil. I got the squealing and no braking power. Replaced the pads and it worked great again temporarily, but the problem came back.

I can't tell where the oil is coming from. How can I determine whether it's the hose connection or the piston that's leaking?


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

jabrabu said:


> I have 3 sets of these brakes, but on one bike the rear brake seems to be getting contaminated with oil. I got the squealing and no braking power. Replaced the pads and it worked great again temporarily, but the problem came back.
> 
> I can't tell where the oil is coming from. How can I determine whether it's the hose connection or the piston that's leaking?


You have a leaky hose. Mine is in the shop awaiting for parts from shimano
The leak is coming from crimp part before the banjo


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

digifun said:


> You have a leaky hose. Mine is in the shop awaiting for parts from shimano
> The leak is coming from crimp part before the banjo


I guess I can install a new jagwire hose, right?


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

Yes you can. Eventually that's the route I'm going to. But since I'm under warranty I might as well have them fix it. But it sucks not having the bike for two weeks


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## Orl1exm (Oct 22, 2011)

Anyone running 785 brake levers with 775 calipers? Got a great deal on the 785 levers, but don't know where to start. Will I need new hoses or just the fittings? New to hydraulic brakes


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

not sure if they fit, but i do know the 785 lines are different diameter


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## Orl1exm (Oct 22, 2011)

I understand that the785 lines are different diameter than the 775 lines, just wondering if I use my current lines what I would need to install the 785 levers? Different insert for the 785's?


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## snowpunk (Apr 17, 2007)

picked up a pair off of Bluesky (what a deal) and Holy crap are they great! I'm coming from Juicy 5's which actually worked pretty well for me except the damn noise and what a difference. Great Modulation and stopping power. I'm about 205 to 210 geared up and rode lift served DH for about 8 to 10k vertical feet the first day on them and was incredibly impressed. I'll certainly keep an eye on the crimps for any leaking.


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## StiHacka (Feb 2, 2012)

The brakes are great but the hoses are expensive junk. I am thinking about switching to Goodridge.


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## zenkem (Dec 18, 2007)

Different Brake, same concept:

Bleeding Shimano BR-M575 brakes - YouTube


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

Timothy386 said:


> Thanks gents. Jabrabu, would you mind please describing how you shortened your lines? Did you do so at the lever end? Did you need a new replacement olive and plunger? Anything else?


Follow this, https://www.shimano.com/publish/con...downloadFile.html/02) Brake Hose Trimming.pdf
It's fairly easy and yes you'll need a new fittings to do the job


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## Mds2004 (Jan 9, 2012)

Is there a way to adjust the brake power? I just switched to these from avid elixir 9s and love the modulation. I just need more stopping power. I am running 180s front and back. On the rear I can lock the tire only of I squeeze real hard at the end of the pull. I like how it's at the end with modulation but I wish I wouldn't need to pull so hard. The fronts seem even worse. I am running icetek rotors front and back as well.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Mds2004 said:


> Is there a way to adjust the brake power? I just switched to these from avid elixir 9s and love the modulation. I just need more stopping power. I am running 180s front and back. On the rear I can lock the tire only of I squeeze real hard at the end of the pull. I like how it's at the end with modulation but I wish I wouldn't need to pull so hard. The fronts seem even worse. I am running icetek rotors front and back as well.


Sounds like you need to bleed them.


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

Or a leaky hose.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Mds2004 said:


> Is there a way to adjust the brake power? I just switched to these from avid elixir 9s and love the modulation. I just need more stopping power. I am running 180s front and back. On the rear I can lock the tire only of I squeeze real hard at the end of the pull. I like how it's at the end with modulation but I wish I wouldn't need to pull so hard. The fronts seem even worse. I am running icetek rotors front and back as well.


Are they properly bed-in ? New brake pads/rotors needs to be bed-in to get to maximum power. This is a result of the rotor being imbedded with pad material on his surface.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Mds2004 said:


> Is there a way to adjust the brake power? I just switched to these from avid elixir 9s and love the modulation. I just need more stopping power. I am running 180s front and back. On the rear I can lock the tire only of I squeeze real hard at the end of the pull. I like how it's at the end with modulation but I wish I wouldn't need to pull so hard. The fronts seem even worse. I am running icetek rotors front and back as well.


The pads are contaminated. Guaranteed.


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## StiHacka (Feb 2, 2012)

Sheepo5669 said:


> The pads are contaminated. Guaranteed.


^^^^ What he says. Search for threads about leaking BH90 hoses if you are sure you did not contaminate them by accident. The brakes are great but their lines are piss poor.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Jeannie401 said:


> Thanks gents. Jabrabu, would you mind please describing how you shortened your lines? Did you do so at the lever end? Did you need a new replacement olive and plunger? Anything else?


You shorten the lines at the lever end and you will need a new olive and connecting insert (barb).


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## FatalNecro (Jun 28, 2012)

I've been looking at these brakes for sometime to upgrade my older Shimano XT M765. If I stick with 160mm rotors and upgrade from to the latest XT brakes from Shimano, will I need to purchase new disc brake mounts or can I use my existing ones? I plan to buy new 160mm Ice Tech Rotors. Thanks in advance.


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

reuse the brackets


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## 426h (Jul 13, 2006)

These brakes are junk. I have 2 bikes with 2012 xt brakes and 3 of the 4 brakes are leaking oil in the factory banjo-hose fitting, contaminating pads and discs.


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

And from what my lbs said, these hoses are back ordered. My bike sat in the shop for two weeks. I think shimano customer service sucks.. But when they do work, there awesome


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

426h said:


> These brakes are junk. I have 2 bikes with 2012 xt brakes and 3 of the 4 brakes are leaking oil in the factory banjo-hose fitting, contaminating pads and discs.


My odds were better. I have 3 bikes with the 2012 XT brakes and 1 of the 6 has the leaky fitting. I just replaced the hose and fittings with Jagwire HyFlo.


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## Phanis13 (Jun 14, 2012)

I have the same brakes and they are awesome but some idiot fellows MTB PREVEZA TEAM
Think that these brakes suck These brakes have all the power I need and feel awesome never mind


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## Josh_SL2 (Mar 30, 2012)

I've been running these new brakes for a few weeks and I love them! Much better than the low-end Shimano parts that came on the bike, plus upgrading to a 180mm disc in the front helped too.


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## Phanis13 (Jun 14, 2012)

I have these brakes and they are awesome !! I have all the power I need ( for xc and trail use ) But what makes me sad is that some not very smart people MTB PREVEZA TEAM think that these brakes worth nothing .there are good guys , bad guys and not very clever guys

Never mind


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

These are awesome brakes. No doubt. I wish shimano can come up with a solution with their leaky hoses and leaky pistons. I'll be doing another warranty soon. This time it's the piston that's leaking. And getting replacement parts takes a long time. At least base on my previous experience. It took my LBS two weeks to get my parts. Two weeks is a long time. Gladly, I have a back up bike


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## TaupoRider (Jan 6, 2012)

Hey guys, how long does it take for pads to bed in with rotors? Ive just replaced my juicy3's and there is F all stopping power, the leaver is firm so its bled properly but just doesn't have the stopping power. I'm using the original rotors (203/180)


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

I do the bed in procedure I read somewhere on here.
Ride on the street to full speed apply brakes firmly until at walking speed,
turn around and repeat. Usually takes 10-20 passes to bed in the brakes really good.
I have to do this even if I just clean the pads and rotors with alcohol.


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## Phanis13 (Jun 14, 2012)

When brakes are new or if brake pads are changed Hard but not continuous braking on a descent to bed in but with care cause a lot of temperature must be avoided


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## TaupoRider (Jan 6, 2012)

Cheers i will try doing that in the weekend. It must make a big difference as there is stuff all power as they stand


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

Does anyone have pics of the leak from around the pistons? I noticed last time I bled my brakes that when I squeeze the lever and watch the pistons come out, I can see what looks like fluid around the circumference of the pistons extend and retract a little with the piston. This may be the seal, it was hard to get a good clear view in there, but it looked like fluid... I have not seen it drip out or run down the caliper body from the piston. Those of you who had leaky pistons, does it run down from the piston or is it hard to notice the leaking fluid?

Also, has anyone replaced the bleed nipple with an actual screw, and bleed with a screw in fitting instead of the nipple?


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## j4mi3 (Aug 7, 2012)

TaupoRider said:


> Hey guys, how long does it take for pads to bed in with rotors? Ive just replaced my juicy3's and there is F all stopping power, the leaver is firm so its bled properly but just doesn't have the stopping power. I'm using the original rotors (203/180)


same here..

they are also squeaky for some reason. only the front one. will this go away?


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## 40er (Dec 4, 2011)

Did you guys broke them in?


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## 40er (Dec 4, 2011)

In fact last night after my ride, I was just thinking to the fact that I had these xt for the last 6 months, and have not had one single issue. With my avid I was constantly cleaning the pistons, re blending them, noises etc. with the xt's I have not had todo anything since I put them on. And stopping power, it's very simple, my avids 2 fingers, xt one finger. They are the best.


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## Phanis13 (Jun 14, 2012)

they are also squeaky for some reason. only the front one. will this go away?

If you have, the noise is from the pad movement in the caliper It may be useful to remove the brake pads and reinstall them 
I think that 180mm disk rotors are responsible for the sound cause there is greater force at the brake
Do you have an 180mm disk rotor in front?


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## TaupoRider (Jan 6, 2012)

j4mi3 said:


> same here..
> 
> they are also squeaky for some reason. only the front one. will this go away?


I did the bed in and noticed an improvement, i prefer more bite us front so have ordered a set of resin pads. Im also sick so haven't ridden in the last 2 weeks.

Did you get any oil on the surface of your pads or rotors? That can cause it along with no braking power


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## _R_ (Aug 20, 2012)

Does anyone have any tips on installing Shimano XTs?

I got my set with Ice Tech rotors today and I'm going to install them on my Cobia tomorrow. Will be my first brake install.


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## jhobert (Feb 1, 2012)

I tried purchasing this breakset on eBay, but while I was browsing I've seen 2 versions of XTs, first one is where the brake lever is chrome and the second one is in flat silver. Which is which? 

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

Installation is quite simple. Shortening the hose is probably the hardest part. And if you do, bleeding usually isn't needed unless you screwed up. Goodlluck


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## Phanis13 (Jun 14, 2012)

In the levers of XTs there is a small hole with a mark if you press with a small screwdriver in the hole the hole the lever clamp will open widely so you can remove the brakes without taking the grips of
But this feature will help you only if the previous brakes have it , otherwise you will have to remove the grips and the speed triggers


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## UpillDaemon (Aug 20, 2012)

I'm glad to see this thread. I have always used mechanical brakes, but would like to get some hydros in the near future. I've heard the shimano xts are fantastic. Do any other brands offer the gravity bleed capability? Also what's the difference between DOT fluid and mineral oil? Is on cheaper than the other?
Finally, where's a good place to pick up the shimano xts? I'm not exactly rolling in the cash..

Thanks


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

For pricing, email Bikerbob.com. As for fluids, dot has a higher boiling point. But as far as performance on a bicycle I can't tell the difference.


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## natzx7 (May 30, 2007)

I love my '12 XTs, they just work. Especially after the gobbling Elixir 3s. Not a complaint, but I feel like there is just a hair more pull on the rear, probably due to the longer hose with more room for expansion. I tried to adjust the free stroke adjustment a few turns, but even with a digital caliper I don't see any difference. Not really a big deal, I just wondered what other people's outcome was with their free stroke adjustment.


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## Ryan.SH (Aug 22, 2012)

my xt brakes leak after four months of riding, bought it when shimano release it


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## Ryan.SH (Aug 22, 2012)

Phanis13 said:


> they are also squeaky for some reason. only the front one. will this go away?
> 
> If you have, the noise is from the pad movement in the caliper It may be useful to remove the brake pads and reinstall them
> I think that 180mm disk rotors are responsible for the sound cause there is greater force at the brake
> Do you have an 180mm disk rotor in front?


check brake pad alignment and make sure rotor surface is clean


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

Recently got my XT Brakes + Ice Tech Rotors 160 from JensonUSA.
They were super easy to install, just cut the cable to length and plug it back in.
The bike brakes amazingly, now I have total control of my speed.
I use a bed in process the LBS recommended, before I rode anywhere on them.
I've now ridden through thick mud sloppy puddles light rain and dry dusty weather and they never made a noise and never lost braking finesse.


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## TaupoRider (Jan 6, 2012)

TaupoRider said:


> I did the bed in and noticed an improvement, i prefer more bite us front so have ordered a set of resin pads. Im also sick so haven't ridden in the last 2 weeks.
> 
> Did you get any oil on the surface of your pads or rotors? That can cause it along with no braking power


Resin pads have upped the power in the front. I should get out for a rid before the weekend so will let you know how these compare to Avid 3's


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

Double post, oops!


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

Hey what's everyone getting for lever throw? Not talking about squeezing as hard as you can, but just light finger pressure until the lever stops... Of the few other sets I've gotten my hands on, it is about 1/2 inch. My own set has been at about 1 1/4 inches, even after a fresh bleed. My free stroke screw is screwed in all the way too.


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## 40er (Dec 4, 2011)

i'm getting about 1/2" tops on my lever throw, and had them installed for about 8 months now.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

I get about 1/2" throw on mine, have you tried the adjustment screw?
It's possible you have air in the line somewhere, I'm no expert though.


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## TaupoRider (Jan 6, 2012)

Right-o So I've had a chance to test the brakes out properly twice.

Where they worth the 600 odd bucks over my Exiler3's that DIDN'T squeal?

*No.*

Do they have more power?

*Yes*

Downside is they are a little blingy for my taste and the pads are way more then the Avids.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

TaupoRider said:


> Where they worth the 600 odd bucks over my Exiler3's that DIDN'T squeal?
> *No.*
> Do they have more power?
> *Yes*


I couldn't afford them if they were always $600 bucks.

However, they were *Definitely worth the $300 bucks* I paid for them on sale. :cornut:


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## TaupoRider (Jan 6, 2012)

schristie11 said:


> I couldn't afford them if they were always $600 bucks.
> 
> However, they were *Definitely worth the $300 bucks* I paid for them on sale. :cornut:


I should have said that was with an extra set of brake pads and a bleed kit as well.

And also that is NZD$


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## Falling (Aug 1, 2006)

*Lot of questions. Not a noob biker, a noob bleeder!*

Appears that I have the leaky hose on three of four brakes. Today I changed the rear hose to a Jagwire hose. Quite an easy switch out. So now I just did the bleed according to Shimano's website. I have a couple of questions:

Now that I bled it, when I have the lever knob fully extended and squeeze it stops about 90% of the way to the bar. If I pull it in further I can make it go all the way to the bar. Did I do something in wrong in the bleed or am I being paranoid? This is still with the yellow block in.

How far in can you run your levers? Does the distance of the lever from the bar should not impact the amount of fluid needed in the brake???

My brake pads are slightly worn. I am afraid I contaminated them. I've read about people "baking" them in the oven, what temperature do you do that at?

If the pads are contaminated the rotors are more than likely? I have do you bake them or use brake cleaner and some sand paper on the rotors?

After cleaning the old pads, since they have wear in them the width will be smaller. Since it is smaller do I need to add more oil?

Do SLX brakes have the same issues?

Sorry for all of the questions. This is the only piece of bike maintenace I haven't done myself.


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

Sound like you still have air in the system. A properly bled brakes would give you a firm feel when you pull the lever


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Perform the bleed again, as stated,the lever should be firm not spongy. I'd pick up some new pads. The pads self adjust for pad wear.


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## Nickbm3 (Nov 10, 2010)

Something I've been curious about recently... Will the pad self adjust also adjust for the rotor wearing thinner? I'd assume it would. Also, when do you know to replace the rotors?


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## Stumpjumpy (Sep 7, 2011)

TaupoRider said:


> Resin pads have upped the power in the front. I should get out for a rid before the weekend so will let you know how these compare to Avid 3's


The resin pads are supposed to provide less bite/power but be smoother, quieter, less grabby and have better modulation. If you feel you INCREASED power by moving to the resin pads, then very likely something was wrong w/ your metal pads (contaminated or not properly bedded).


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## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

Finally trimmed my hoses> I just followed the Shimano PDF and it was a piece of cake. I did not need to bleed and they feel better than before. 

I love these brakes!


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## djball (Nov 3, 2010)

Are the XT(RT86) rotors any good? Someone said the rivets connecting the steel ring to aluminum body become loose rather quickly? I kept the Avid G3's after buying XT brakes, but they're getting kinda thin and noisy.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

I've run the XT rear and XTR front with no problems for about 8 months now. Quiet and do what they need to do.


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

Anybody getting rhythmic pulsing on the 203mm non-ice-tech rotor?

It's not horrible, but not desirable, either. The 160 is fine.

And these are the fastest-wearing rotors I've ever had... or the most abrasive pads... dunno which (;


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

D.F.L. said:


> Anybody getting rhythmic pulsing on the 203mm non-ice-tech rotor?
> 
> It's not horrible, but not desirable, either. The 160 is fine.
> 
> And these are the fastest-wearing rotors I've ever had... or the most abrasive pads... dunno which (;


I had the issue with some cheap rotors but my 160 ice techs have no issues.
Though I can see a wear ring it doesn't' look concerning.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I did notice my Saint M810's ate my Shimano rotors pretty quickly but since switching to Magura's (Galfer I think makes them), they are holding up better.


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## Stumpjumpy (Sep 7, 2011)

D.F.L. said:


> Anybody getting rhythmic pulsing on the 203mm non-ice-tech rotor?
> 
> It's not horrible, but not desirable, either. The 160 is fine.
> 
> And these are the fastest-wearing rotors I've ever had... or the most abrasive pads... dunno which (;


I am KINDA getting that with my icetech 203. It feels similar to what I feel at the brake pedal of a car with cross-drilled rotors. The rear 180 does not do it at all.


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## jkirkpatri (Sep 16, 2008)

Any ideas if the 2013 XTs will be all black vs blingy metal on the levers?


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

They should fix their leaky brakes if anything else


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## Stumpjumpy (Sep 7, 2011)

jkirkpatri said:


> Any ideas if the 2013 XTs will be all black vs blingy metal on the levers?


If the bling bugs you, why not just buy a 2.99 rattle can and black'em out? Prolly take 20 min of your time, and it's not a wear area, at all.

I was gonna paint mine, but changed my mind once I mounted'em. I likes da bling a ling!


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## Stumpjumpy (Sep 7, 2011)

digifun said:


> They should fix their leaky brakes if anything else


I gotta believe they remedied the leaky seal/hose issues by now, right? All those warranty claims had to be a major PITA. Shimano can't still be shipping out the same problematic stuff. It just would not make sense from a "bottom line" standpoint.


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## jkirkpatri (Sep 16, 2008)

Stumpjumpy said:


> If the bling bugs you, why not just buy a 2.99 rattle can and black'em out? Prolly take 20 min of your time, and it's not a wear area, at all.
> 
> I was gonna paint mine, but changed my mind once I mounted'em. I likes da bling a ling!


Given my painting skills, it would probably look like a set of blingly XT's spray painted ghetto black.


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## Stumpjumpy (Sep 7, 2011)

jkirkpatri said:


> Given my painting skills, it would probably look like a set of blingly XT's spray painted ghetto black.


the key is to take your time prepping. Sand them first. Wash/Rinse/degrease w/ some acetone or something a few times. Let dry. Hit with a good primer. Hit with a few very light coats of the black paint of your choice. Let dry overnight.

Now youve got me tempted to try it, again.


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## jkirkpatri (Sep 16, 2008)

^ if the XT's don't come in full black next year, then yep, I'm going to paint them like you suggested. Wondering if plastidip might be a good alternative on the bare metal piece?


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

jkirkpatri said:


> ^ if the XT's don't come in full black next year, then yep, I'm going to paint them like you suggested. Wondering if plastidip might be a good alternative on the bare metal piece?


Bare metal? Isn't the reservoir cover just plastic with a plastic chrome coating?

Either way, Plastidip would be great!


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## jkirkpatri (Sep 16, 2008)

I can only go off the pics posted, but if it's just chrome coating, then that's even better for plastidipping.


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

jkirkpatri said:


> I can only go off the pics posted, but if it's just chrome coating, then that's even better for plastidipping.


Definitely plastic. Especially from the pics I've seen of some from a crash.

With Plastidip, you won't have to prep much, just clean with rubbing alcohol and spray. I did that with my chrome grille on my Saab 9-2X wagon, and it looks good after 3 years still and lots of highway driving. No a single chip. Light coats are key though. Plus, if you won't like it or want to sell the brakes, you can simply peel off the coating. :thumbsup:


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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Any sales on these brakes?


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

Blueskycycling.com


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

Bikerbob.com.


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## zenkem (Dec 18, 2007)

scvkurt03 said:


> Any sales on these brakes?


$110.00 a wheel at Bluesky without disc's:

BlueSkyCycling.com - Shimano XT M785 IceTech Disc Brake w/Adapter


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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

A lot of BlueSky's stuff is OEM... Just bought a pair of Hoss Ponderosa from them, but I'm not sure I want to buy such an important component from them. Still, I'm trying to get the cost close to $300. Just bought the new Elixir 9's for about that much for a new build, which I'm way over budget on. Trying to sell those to get the XT's.


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## zenkem (Dec 18, 2007)

scvkurt03 said:


> A lot of BlueSky's stuff is OEM... Just bought a pair of Hoss Ponderosa from them, but I'm not sure I want to buy such an important component from them. Still, I'm trying to get the cost close to $300. Just bought the new Elixir 9's for about that much for a new build, which I'm way over budget on. Trying to sell those to get the XT's.


I got a set of brakes from them last year and their still working fine...


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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

That's definitely good to know. The other thing: tax and shipping. So many people offer free shipping and no tax if they're out of state. Kind of negates the pretty good price.


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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Just made it happen for $316.88 - no tax, free shipping. New in box with Ice-Tech pads, rotors (180/160), and the MA90 adapter. At my door in 2 days. PM me for the deets, if you're interested.


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## Stumpjumpy (Sep 7, 2011)

scvkurt03 said:


> A lot of BlueSky's stuff is OEM... Just bought a pair of Hoss Ponderosa from them, but I'm not sure I want to buy such an important component from them. Still, I'm trying to get the cost close to $300. Just bought the new Elixir 9's for about that much for a new build, which I'm way over budget on. Trying to sell those to get the XT's.


Prolly have 200 miles on my Bluesky XT's with no issues.

What is it that you fear re OE XT brakes, and why?


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

I have about 2 years on my SLX 665 brakes that were OEM from Bluesky. Zero problems whatsoever. I couldn't care less that they were OEM, less garbage to throw out for me.


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

scvkurt03 said:


> Just made it happen for $316.88 - no tax, free shipping. New in box with Ice-Tech pads, rotors (180/160), and the MA90 adapter. At my door in 2 days. PM me for the deets, if you're interested.


That's a good deal. Ice-Tech rotors or no? I'm tempted for the XT brakes, but I just bought a new frame and been kinda enjoying my SLX 665 with metal pads for now.

PM if you please to tell me where you got them from.


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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Stumpjumpy said:


> Prolly have 200 miles on my Bluesky XT's with no issues.
> 
> What is it that you fear re OE XT brakes, and why?


BlueSky sells takeoffs right along side unused OEM. It's a toss-up when you order. Sure, they might be just fine, but I'd hate to order and find a hose is too short because it was installed and cut for another bike...


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

scvkurt03 said:


> BlueSky sells takeoffs right along side unused OEM. It's a toss-up when you order. Sure, they might be just fine, but I'd hate to order and find a hose is too short because it was installed and cut for another bike...


Yeah, except they list brake hose line lengths on the website for what they sell. In most cases, the lines end up working fine. It's with brand new Shimano brakes in fancy packaging that requires trimming of their 1000mm front and 1700mm rear lengths.


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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

eurospek said:


> Yeah, except they list brake hose line lengths on the website for what they sell. In most cases, the lines end up working fine. It's with brand new Shimano brakes in fancy packaging that requires trimming of their 1000mm front and 1700mm rear lengths.


Definitely not saying others shouldn't buy from there. I'm just sayin' I'd rather have a new product, especially if someone will price match and not charge shipping or tax.

And yeah, my purchase included the RT86 (Icetech).


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

scvkurt03 said:


> Definitely not saying others shouldn't buy from there. I'm just sayin' I'd rather have a new product, especially if *someone *will price match and not charge shipping or tax.
> 
> And yeah, my purchase included the RT86 (Icetech).


Do tell. :thumbsup:


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## Stumpjumpy (Sep 7, 2011)

scvkurt03 said:


> BlueSky sells takeoffs right along side unused OEM. It's a toss-up when you order. Sure, they might be just fine, but I'd hate to order and find a hose is too short because it was installed and cut for another bike...


Been a lot of Bluesky XT brake buys on this forum. Never heard of anybody experiencing a too short hose, or any indication that the brakes had been previously installed - have you?

Where did you get your info re Bluesky selling previously installed merchandise as "new"? Never heard that before, either.


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

Blue sky sells OEM. Someone needs to explain the difference between OEM and new XT in a box.


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

oem doesn't come with extra olives and connecting inserts
just comes in a plain plastic bag instead of fancy box
i got mine from blue sky, very happy with them


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## Stumpjumpy (Sep 7, 2011)

My understanding:

"OEM" simply means the parts were originally sold by the manufacturer with the intended use as original equipment on a new bike. These parts carry the original manufacturers warranty. These parts are sold in bulk to bike manufacturers/builders at presumably über low prices. Conceivably, these could be purchased in bulk to get the pricing, and the excess resold to a retailer like Bluesky - who then sells them to the consumer. The parts lack the typical retail packaging/literature but are otherwise identical to their retail counterparts.

A "take-off" part is one that was previously installed on a bike and then removed before the bike was purchased/used by the consumer. This is technically a "used" part, IMHO.

*EDIT*: just got 2 e-mails from Bluesky in response to my query re OEM Products:

----------------------------------

No they are not take-offs - never been installed all brand new products.

Thank you

Eddie
International Sales
323-585-3934 x207

[email protected]
From: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 10:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: OEM products

_Are the parts "take-offs" - ie previously installed on a bike?

Thanks._

Sent from my iPhone
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Oct 24, 2012, at 1:26 PM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

The XT brakes are oem they do not come in the original packaging.

All items are included just as if you were to buy them at your local shop, but without the manufactures packaging.

Warranty is still covered under shimano 3-2-1 Warranty

Please contact me directly if you have any other questions, or if you would like to start an order.

Thank you

Eddie
International Sales
323-585-3934 x207
[email protected]
From: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 8:42 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: OEM products

Subject : OEM products
======================= Message ====================

_I understand that some of your products, such as XT brakes, are "OEM" products. What exactly does this mean? Does the manufacturer's warranty still apply? Have these products been previously installed? Are the "OEM" products in any way inferior to the regular consumer version?
Thanks._

===================================================


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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

The way it's been explained to me is that lots of OEM stuff is for sale without Shimano's (or whatever brand) blessing. Under this circumstance, Shimano is not likely to cover the product in case of a warranty claim. If BlueSky has obtained these outside of "grey market" circumstances, then cool - and there's nothing to worry about. 

If I'm given the choice between a brand new product with all of the packaging and literature and OEM, I'll take the packaged one, especially since its cheaper in my case. Living in the same state as a deep discounter like BlueSky sucks. Tax and shipping.


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

I've bought many of things from blueky over a couple years. Friends have also on my recommendation and we have never had any issues with product or service. Shipping is quick and service is great.


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## Stumpjumpy (Sep 7, 2011)

scvkurt03 said:


> The way it's been explained to me is that lots of OEM stuff is for sale without Shimano's (or whatever brand) blessing. Under this circumstance, Shimano is not likely to cover the product in case of a warranty claim. If BlueSky has obtained these outside of "grey market" circumstances, then cool - and there's nothing to worry about.
> 
> If I'm given the choice between a brand new product with all of the packaging and literature and OEM, I'll take the packaged one, especially since its cheaper in my case. Living in the same state as a deep discounter like BlueSky sucks. Tax and shipping.


I am pretty sure folks on this forum have already obtained satisfactory warranty coverage from Shimano on Blue Sky-sourced brakes (XT hose leaks). Further, Blue Sky is known to "make things right", as well. They move a lot of Shimano product and remain a fairly well-regarded retailer. So I dont think purchase protection/coverage is an issue . . .

Your preference for extra cardboard, plastic and paper as well as a lower price is your perogative. Cheap, nicely packaged stuff is nicely packaged cheap stuff.:thumbsup:

But you claimed that Blue Sky was/is selling previously-installed brake parts as "new". Was there any basis for that, at all?



scvkurt03 said:


> BlueSky sells takeoffs right along side unused OEM. It's a toss-up when you order. Sure, they might be just fine, but I'd hate to order and find a hose is too short because it was installed and cut for another bike...


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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Yep, though I feel a bit dumb for not questioning the source - a competitor of theirs who would not price match them. 

I do think its sketchy that they don't advertise their OEM stuff as OEM. It took you emailing them to tell you that.


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## Stumpjumpy (Sep 7, 2011)

scvkurt03 said:


> I do think its sketchy that they don't advertise their OEM stuff as OEM. It took you emailing them to tell you that.


Agreed. Not a "best practice".


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

scvkurt03 said:


> The way it's been explained to me is that lots of OEM stuff is for sale without Shimano's (or whatever brand) blessing.


Thats not true in most cases. The oem stuff can come from a bike manufacturer who ordered too many parts for their run of bikes. Or, the stuff could come from shimano if they had an oem cancel an order. In that cases it's just easier to sell it as-is rather than have boxes made and instructions printed. Either way, they are well aware that the stuff is out there and they expect to make good on warranty inquires.


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## bitewerks (May 14, 2009)

I installed XT 785's on my Evil Sovereign yesterday. I'd been using BB7's & the Shimano's were an excellent upgrade! Super easy to set-up, they're quiet, & much more powerful than the mech's but not like the power I was imagining from reading various threads. They're very easy to modulate without locking up. I've had 2 rides on them, so far & feel much more confident just tapping the brakes then letting go before rolling into tech sections whereas with the BB7s I felt like I had to stay on the brakes much more often.

I'm running the Ice Tech rotors; 180mm upfront & 160mm in the rear.


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## sp00n82 (Sep 23, 2013)

Two days ago one piston of my XT 785 broke while bleeding.



Problem is, it was from a private auction off eBay, so there's no dealer warranty.

Does anybody know of any spare parts?
In another forum the Hayes Stroker Ryde pistons were mentioned that could/should be a likely fit, can anybody confirm that?

Would hate to buy a new caliper just for this one cheap ceramic piece (how can it brake anyway, dammit?).

// Edit
Or is there maybe some sort of warranty directly from Shimano?


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## cobba (Apr 5, 2007)

As you're in Germany try the following and see what they have to say:

Paul Lange & Co.
Hofener Straße 114
D-70372 Stuttgart
Germany
Phone: +49 - 0711-258802
Fax: +49 - 0711-2588305
e-mail: [email protected]
url: Paul Lange & Co Startseite


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## sp00n82 (Sep 23, 2013)

cobba said:


> As you're in Germany try:
> 
> Paul Lange & Co.
> Hofener Straße 114
> ...


Thanks, my local dealer is already going to contact them. Although he mentioned their good will is pretty much non-existing, so I'm looking for alternatives.


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## parkp81 (Oct 29, 2005)

My front caliper piston seal failed on my XT 11' brakes. I as well purchased the set off eBay, and guess what Shimano warrantied them and I told them that I purchased them from eBay. The guy said to print the receipt from eBay and bring it in. I did and they took care of me within 2 weeks.


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## sp00n82 (Sep 23, 2013)

That's interesting.
Did you send in the whole package, i.e. caliper + lever, or just the caliper?
I would hate to have to go back to my old Tektro levers, they're the whole reason why I bought the XT in the first place.
That being said, I may also suffer from the leakage on the reservoir mentioned earlier in this thread. Going to have to observe that a little more.

And while I'm at it: what screw driver is needed to open the Lid Fixing Bolt (#2) on the reservoir? Maybe allen key 7/64"? I only have metric ones, and none of them seems to fit properly.


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## parkp81 (Oct 29, 2005)

They told me to bring in the entire front brake as one.

The lid fixing bolt looks like a 3mm allen.


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## sp00n82 (Sep 23, 2013)

parkp81 said:


> The lid fixing bolt looks like a 3mm allen.


Yeah, I thought so as well, but that doesn't fit for me. But I've now checked again, and even 2.5mm doesn't fit (and 2mm is too small), so maybe it's 3/32" (2.24mm).


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## Gonzo 1971 (Apr 9, 2013)

I just ordered a set of XT-785-b What is a good value in a rotor? I dont need the Icetech. It just is not that hilly in LP Michigan.


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## jkirkpatri (Sep 16, 2008)

I'd just try using your existing Avid rotors if you're not looking to go with an Icetech. If you're going to get new rotors, I'd put that money towards the Icetechs vs something else.



Gonzo 1971 said:


> I just ordered a set of XT-785-b What is a good value in a rotor? I dont need the Icetech. It just is not that hilly in LP Michigan.


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## Gonzo 1971 (Apr 9, 2013)

How did you know I had Avid rotors? lol- The icetech are that good?


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## jkirkpatri (Sep 16, 2008)

Icetechs are that good, but I just saying that if you're going to spend money on rotors, just do it right the first time is all.

Your bike is 2009 Bianchi SoK, comes stock with Avids


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## Gonzo 1971 (Apr 9, 2013)

Oh, duh! My rotors are in good shape. I wil run them for now as i plan on new wheels toon anyway. Just figured out I need wheel bearings too. One more thing. Then I flipped the bike over to chance a flat. water came out of my head tube. So I get to take that apart too. Rain ride last sunday was hard on her!


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## Gonzo 1971 (Apr 9, 2013)

Bleed kit necessary to shorten housings or just olives? My set may be oem. So I am thinking about ordering a bleed kit. Maybe just the funnel.


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## Diesel~ (Feb 17, 2008)

Gonzo 1971 said:


> Bleed kit necessary to shorten housings or just olives? My set may be oem. So I am thinking about ordering a bleed kit. Maybe just the funnel.


New olives are necessary. New barbs are highly recommended, as they can be difficult to remove w/o damaging them. If you are careful, you often don't need a bleed after shortening, but the funnel and kit are so cheap, that they are not bad to have on hand.

-D


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## Gonzo 1971 (Apr 9, 2013)

Funnel and kit seem to be about $25. The funnel is only $5 and I probably have a syringe. Plus another $6 for olives and barbs. Not too bad. Do I need the little driver and clamp for the barb? I have never done them before so I am only 90% sure of whats going on. Seems pretty simple. Iam excited. This should be a huge improvement over the Juicey 3s!


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## jkirkpatri (Sep 16, 2008)

Gonzo 1971 said:


> Funnel and kit seem to be about $25. The funnel is only $5 and I probably have a syringe. Plus another $6 for olives and barbs. Not too bad. Do I need the little driver and clamp for the barb? I have never done them before so I am only 90% sure of whats going on. Seems pretty simple. Iam excited. This should be a huge improvement over the Juicey 3s!


For the barb, I've just used vice grips and a hammer.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Gonzo 1971 said:


> Bleed kit necessary to shorten housings or just olives? My set may be oem. So I am thinking about ordering a bleed kit. Maybe just the funnel.


The retail brakes come with very long hoses that you will need to shorten. The OEM sometimes come in conventional lengths which can be used on most bikes. Its worth shopping around for OEM with normal size hoses and save the headache and cost of shortening. My XT OEM fit perfectly.

You can measure your existing hoses for reference.


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## Gonzo 1971 (Apr 9, 2013)

Good point and Lesson learned. These look shorter than my (too long) stock hoses. I just got them this morning. We will find out shortly. Thanks for the help everyone.


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

Here is the procedure for shortening the brake hose without having to bleed the brakes.

http://www.shimano.com/publish/cont...downloadFile.html/02) Brake Hose Trimming.pdf


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## Gonzo 1971 (Apr 9, 2013)

Thanks! Well the front line is perfect. The rear could be a bit longer. I had to route it to the right side of the head tube. No binding and well over 180 degree rotation each direction. Very happy. Cant wait to try them out in the morning.


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