# Is it worth building a Raleigh Mtn Scout



## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

Last fall my 8 yr old purchased a used Raleight 2011 Mtn Scout for $100 that was a little rough.Raleigh Bicycles Mtn Scout - 2011 Youth Yeah we paid too much. I've since found a dealer closing out new 2014s for $140 that are tempting. Raleigh Bicycles - 2014 Mtn Scout Especially since I have a 7 year old that could move into it this summer too.

So here is my delima, the design on the Raleigh seem really poor. Everything about the bike looks like it was an afterthough or put together by part remaining in Raleighs inventory. For example, my used Scout has a 165mm crank which seems way to long for him. The new one is tempting because they put a nice short 127 mm crank on it. But I wonder if that is too short now. Also question if they changed the frame or just threw on the parts they had. The new one is also a 1x7. Which is OK but the big chainring is a 40 tooth. Which seems like it would be terrible for climbing. Anyway, the choice of some of the components makes me question if the frame is even a decent geometry or if any thought was given in the design of this bike. The specs online are not accurate either. One says it has a 34mm chainstay, but its no where near that. The other bike says its a 41mm which seems reasonable for both. So I wonder if I should pick up a 2nd one and build them with better cranks or just keep my eyes open for a Trek or Specialized or something. What are your opinions. Would you build up a Raleigh frame. Is a 40 tooth crank too much? I'm actually fine with the solid fork and it should keep the bike lighter.


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

Do you have a budget in mind? How serious are your kids into riding? What terrain do they plan to ride? A little more information about expected goals would help with understanding if it's a good buy.


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

I'd like to keep my budget around $300 including the cost of the bike. Otherwise I could just pickup a Cannondale Race for $500+/- and have an air fork and save myself a lot of time and headache working on the bike. Or there is the Trek 24" Superfly that has a nice short chainstay.

We live in the country so the bikes will see some gravel roads and a few trails I hope to make around the yard. But I also plan on doing some serious trails with them.

We live 2 1/2 hours from some amazing IMBA trails called Cuyuna (Trails | Cuyuna Lakes Mountain Bike Trails) that we like to frequent with friends. This is an old iron mine and their are lots of big climbs and decents. Its all single track. So this is what I am building the bikes for. 
Its a lot of this
https://www.brainerd.com/bikemaps/gallery/16.jpg

With the hope of someday getting them on this
https://mountainbikegeezer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/DSC070541.jpg

My oldest rider is pretty conservative. He's pretty content to just ride along and not do any wheelies or anything. My youngest is more aggressive in everything he does and always has to be as good or better than his big brother.

I hope to build bikes that are nimble and encourage learning wheelies and some techniques that help them to be better mountain bikers. I really like some of the bikes with short 40cm chainstays, but I don't know if I can be that picky or if I just need to build a decent bike with a longer chainstay and hope they can pick up some skills anyway.

The Canondale I mentioned earlier has a long 42cm chainstay. I've seen some new trek Superflys with a 40cm chainstay. I like those bikes, but I'm not sure its worth spending $500+/- each for bikes they will only ride 2-3 years. Since we live in the flat lands of ND and the trails are over 2 hours away, there is really no resale value for the bikes either. Most bikes in the area only go on streats.

Since I don't think my older will be on a 26er before the youngest needs a 24. I'll be looking at 2 bikes in teh near future. I have the Raleigh already, and in some ways it would be nice to have matching bikes for them. But it might also be a good learning experience to work on the bikes together. I just don't have much time for that and I would rather spend that time out riding. Since the trails are far away it will only be a few weekends a year we REALLY get to ride the real trails. So I can't say my kids are really serious mountain bikers. Not like some kids here. But they do love it and I hope the can learn some good riding skills.

So with all that in mind. Is the Raleigh worth building. Do I get another or should I keep my eyes open for a better frame to start with.


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

A $300 budget including bike is tough. Sure you can do it but what's your time worth because it will take a lot of Craig's list/ebay finds to mod the Raleigh. The 1X drivetrain with a 40T front and 28T max rear will get your kid no where unless it's all downhill. The drive train mods will kill your budget alone. You could try and find a 3X 150mm crank, front derailleur, front shifter but the frame might not even have the features welded onto the frame to route cables.

So what' my recommendation; buy the Cannondale. REI has a 20% off coupon right now which would bring the price down to $440. Sure a little out of your budget but it saves a whole lot of time. I doubt you would be able to come close to that price with the Raleigh in equivalent form.

Of course, if you have a little more time, I would just find a used 24 on ebay/Craig's List. It will be easier to meet the $300 budget. Good luck.


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

stom_m3 said:


> A $300 budget including bike is tough. Sure you can do it but what's your time worth because it will take a lot of Craig's list/ebay finds to mod the Raleigh.


Yeah, thats a big part of it. I could probably spend more but then again I can find some pretty decent bikes around $400-$500. But if I decide its good father/son time I might persue it.



stom_m3 said:


> The 1X drivetrain with a 40T front and 28T max rear will get your kid no where unless it's all downhill. The drive train mods will kill your budget alone. You could try and find a 3X 150mm crank, front derailleur, front shifter but the frame might not even have the features welded onto the frame to route cables.


That is what I was wondering. That seemed like an awefully big chainring. If it had a 32-34 tooth I might consider it, but it looked like a fixed chainring so I would still have to buy a crank. I found that cranks alone are $50-$100.



stom_m3 said:


> So what' my recommendation; buy the Cannondale. REI has a 20% off coupon right now which would bring the price down to $440. Sure a little out of your budget but it saves a whole lot of time. I doubt you would be able to come close to that price with the Raleigh in equivalent form.


Wow thats a good price. I don't think any REIs near me carry the Cannondale though. Did you actually find the Race24 on a REI site?



stom_m3 said:


> Of course, if you have a little more time, I would just find a used 24 on ebay/Craig's List. It will be easier to meet the $300 budget. Good luck.


Thanks for your thoughts. You make some good points. It at least gives me a little comfort knowing I didn't miss a great deal on that bike with the 40tooth 1x7!

I may spend more time and money if I find the kids want to work on the bikes with me. Then a build project might be worth it. Otherwise I think you are correct that I might be better off finding a better starter platform on Craigslist or finding a good sale on something new that fits my needs.


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

REI sells Cannondale in general. I assume they would be able to order the Race 24. If not, asking your local bike shop for a discount is not unusual. I've never paid retail and have always gotten 10-40% off fixed priced brands (Specialized and Redline) by just asking for a discount. It helps to talk to the owner directly though.

On a side note, it is amazing how much bikes cost now. The top end Specialized carries a price tag of $12k. :eekster:

Good luck!


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

I'm still thinking about this. If I decide that I want to spend the time with my kid and its worth spending $300-$400 on this project, do you think the Raleigh frame is a decent starting place? Or should I look for a Trek or Specialized? Those brands are common in my area and I should be able to eventually find something. But I have the Raleigh and I could just start modding it one thing at a time.

I think the first improvement needs to be the crank. I found Trailcraft sells a nice looking 2x setup with 22t&32t gears. I assume this is the 152mm they use on their own bikes. Trailcraft Cycles It seems to me that even setup as a 1x the 32t should be pretty decent. Its what I use on my 29er anyway.

Could I then use this freewheel with the 14-34t mega gear?
http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-MF-TZ..._sim_sg_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0FGEMPVQWEQVPJ8D0GZB I'd rather have something with a little better spacing between the mega low and 2nd, but at least that would give him a nice low gear.

Provided that these components work in his bike, it seems like this could be a well spent $100+/-. It would give the proper crank length and it should save a little weight and make things simpler by going to a 1x7 setup.

Any thoughts on something like this? How do I check if that crank will work on his bike?


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

Could I swap out his 7 speed for this 9 speed?
http://www.amazon.com/DNP-Epoch-Freewheel-Nickel-Plated/dp/B005QCKD0O/ref=pd_rhf_gw_p_img_4

Granted I need to find 9speed shifters and derailers, but if this works it would give him the low gear plus it would also return some of the higher gears he lost. It seems like this could make a nice little 1x9 setup for pretty cheap. The biggest question, apart from price and if it actually fits, would be how much weight gain is there? But it seems it would be at least a wash between lightening up the front.

Granted switching to a 9 speed requires a new shifter, derailer and chain too. So a quick look at Amazon shows my cost goes up about $100 by going this route. But it might make for a nicer bike.

So for about $200 I could get the new crank and a 1x9 setup. Plus I still need new tires, but I need those anyway. So what are your thoughts on this? Is it worth it to go to the 9speed? Will the parts work even? Or should I just get the 7 speed mega gear and the cranks. Will my existing derailer work with the mega gear?


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

I'll start with 2 words... slippery slope. 

The Raleigh platform will be fine but you have to figure out how much you want to change to make it more suitable for your kid's need.

I think it will work "good enough" simply adding more aggressive tires and calling it a day. If you get the weight weenie bug, that's a different story. Depending on the types of trails, suspension may or may not be beneficial

I guess you have to imagine how much fun you would have riding an equivalent bike that is 50% of your body weight, sticky tight clickety shifting, unsuspended, and poor gripping tires.

Welcome to the vortex of money sucking creatures. I have 2 currently draining my wallet faster than flies drawn to donuts.

There have been a lot of 20/24 budget builds you can check out on this forum. Most find the same icey slope. :eekster:


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

stom_m3 said:


> I'll start with 2 words... slippery slope.
> 
> The Raleigh platform will be fine but you have to figure out how much you want to change to make it more suitable for your kid's need.
> 
> ...


I know all about slippery slopes. I own a Jeep Wrangler. Its the same thing.  You can keep building them as long as you have money. The updates and better components are never ending. Thats why they say Just Empty Every Pocket. Jeeps aren't expensive because of repairs, they are expensive because of the never ending list of mods.

Back to the bike. Actually a big reason we picked up the Raleigh was because I am a weight weinie. That fixed aluminum fork is about 4 lbs lighter than some cheap suspension fork. I started with a solid fork and moved to a good air fork when I moved to a 29er. Air forks are sure nice, but I don't think the benefits of a cheap fork outweigh the weight for a 50lb kid. I also noticed that it is harder to pull a wheeling with a suspension fork since the suspension can obsorb all of your effort. So I think for a kid still learning the basics, a solid fork is a good thing. Even if the ride is a bit rough.

On this build I don't think I want to go all out weight weenie. He will only have the bike a couple years and maybe then get a 26er or get something with an air fork and let the little brother ride this bike. So right now I am just trying to figure out the best bank for the buck.

I really think the new cranks are a must. I don't know why they put 165mm cranks on a kids bike. Thats an adult size crank. You can see how they are too long as you watch his body movements. So I shorter cranks or a new bike with shorter cranks.

I think 7 speeds is enough in the rear, but I have concerns about that big jump between 1st and 2nd. Also the 9spd give a little more top gear which might be nice.

You make a good point about how much more fun a good shifter is. It might be worth getting the 9 spd just to force myself into a better shifter and derailer than the stock components.

I'll have to talk some of this over with my wife and get her thoughts on building vs buying. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions on which components will actually fit.

Thanks for the help. Let me know if you think of anything else.


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

Fargo1 said:


> Could I swap out his 7 speed for this 9 speed?
> http://www.amazon.com/DNP-Epoch-Freewheel-Nickel-Plated/dp/B005QCKD0O/ref=pd_rhf_gw_p_img_4


9-speed FW is also wider width than a 7-speed so you will likely need to add spacers to the axle and re-dish the wheel so the 11t does not hit the frame. You might not actually need a different derailleur to work with 9-speed. 11 tooth high gear is a really tall gear, a 7 year old could likely use a 22t front chainring and not run out of tall gearing with an 11t.


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## ToSloTrk (Mar 25, 2009)

I say go for it. I totally enjoyed the time I spent building up my sons Trek 220.
http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/semi-budget-trek-220-build-943727.html


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

GrayJay said:


> 9-speed FW is also wider width than a 7-speed so you will likely need to add spacers to the axle and re-dish the wheel so the 11t does not hit the frame. You might not actually need a different derailleur to work with 9-speed. 11 tooth high gear is a really tall gear, a 7 year old could likely use a 22t front chainring and not run out of tall gearing with an 11t.


What do you mean by adding spacers and redishing the wheel? If I'm going through that much work would I be better off to source a different hub and replace the freewheel with a 10speed cassette? (Here's that slippery slope thing coming into play). I think a 1x10 with a 11-36 cassette would be sweet for a kids bike.

Thanks for the link to your build ToSloTrk. I saw there was also a link to GrayJays build in there. I just glanced at the threads but nice work guys. I'll read them with more detail later.

Those Treks look like nice bikes. We have a big sporting good store in town that sells trek. I know there are some used ones out there, maybe I should wait and pickup one of those for a starter frame. I still question if the Raleigh is the best choice. Although I really like the solid fork. Its a huge weight savings.

Right now my thoughts are on the rear hub. I keep going between 7 speed, 9 speed or relacing and puting in a 10spd cassette. I've never put new spokes in a wheel, so I am a bit concerned about relacing a wheel with a different hub. Also I saw on line that Shimano made 11-34 7speed mega gear. But the problem is the jump from 1st to 2nd is huge.


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

I've found we have a bike coop in the nearby town. I don;t know much about it, but I hope to get by there sometime soon and see what its about. Maybe I will find a better starter frame or another frame for my other kid. But more importantly I hope to find some parts to do this build.

I'm really thinking about going ahead with this. I know I could probably buy a new bike like that Cannondale for a little more money and a lot less effort, but I wonder if I can build something better for my kids needs. I keep thinking the Raleigh might be a good base for my kid. His biggest struggle is the hill climbs. The rigid fork should be more efficent than a suspension and its certainly lighter. I have to weight his bike again, but I think it is only about 25lbs to start with. So I hope to make the bike lighter while at the same time make it a easier to operate and a better climber. 

I think the best setup for my kid would be a 1x10 drive train, but I'm not sure if that is even possible to do. But maybe I can make it a 1x8 or 1x9. So what would be the best way to get a nice 1x setup. What kind of things should I look for at the Coop? Should I be looking for old hubs with a cassette? Or should I look for a different freewheel cog? Is this something I could even do myself? I am mechanically inclined, but I've never done anything like this. 

How much work is is to 're-dish' the wheel as mentioned above? 



I know I need a different crankset to get the crank length to fit properly


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

Most everything is a weight killer on these levels of bikes but here's what I would start with;
1. Tires are the biggest weight penalty item. Replace them with something lighter like Schwalbe or Small Block 8 folding
2. Seat/post combo can also save you a decent amount of weight but still be cost conscious.
3. The cranks/BB are huge boat anchors but have a large ripple effect with drivetrain and choices.
4. This bring you to the wheelset. Getting rid of the fw and going to a cassette will give you a lot more flexibility with gearing but this is when the slope has already gotten slippery.

It will help if you have a scale. That way you don't go backwards. Hope that helps,

steven


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

Well tonight while tucking my kid into bed he asked if I could raise his seat. It seemed like a strange request since we just raised it a couple weeks ago and he was nearly at full extension. So I asked him why he thought his seat should be higher. Without skipping beat or stopping to think about it, he plainly told me because his knees came up to high. Which was clear confirmation for me that his cranks are too long. I had never even talked about cranks or asking him how his knees felt before. This was purely his own observation. Which really blew me away that he could tell me what was wrong with how his bike fit. So one way or another, there is no more question if I will replace his cranks. It has to be done. Just as I suspected. So unless I start bike shopping, it looks like I am going to be going down that road.

So in regards to your pointers.

1) I need new tires so this is must. Weight here could be an issue. Currently his bike has street tires on it. So I'm sure they are a light tire. I've been trying to find some Rocker Rons, but can't find them for sale anywhere. I read in one of the other post, I think it was GrayJay that the Bontreagers are light. So I may have to go with them. I'll look into the Small Block 8s as well. Thanks for the tip.

2) I'll look into the seat/post as a last resort if I want to save more weight. Right now I just want to get the fit and the gearing correct.

3) Since a new crank is a requirement for this build to get things to fit correctly, it looks like I will be getting rid of that anchor. The problem I see is that small cranks are hard to find. So unless I find something at the Coop, I will be going with the Trailcraft Pinedridge cranks I linked to earlier. My concern here is that they use 1x10 and 2x10 setups with their bikes. Which leads me to believed that I will have to setup my rear hub with a 10spd cassette. Please let me know if you think those cranks could work with something different. Or if you are aware of a better crank option.

4) I already feel locked into a 1x10 setup simply due to the cranks I need. Just how hard is it putting a 10spd hub in the wheel. Is it a cost issue or a skill issue?

Thanks again for all your thoughts. I did weight the bike tonight and my starting weight is at 25lbs on the bathroom scale. I credit the weight of the bike to the rigid fork and street tires. Everything else is heavy. I have little doubt that just changing out the crank and hub/cassette would drop me down to around 22lbs. But at this point I am actually more concerned about getting the proper crank length and gearing.


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

Just a quick note. You can use the 2x front (Trailcraft crank) with the 7spd rear. You will still need to get the front derailleur and shifter and salvage what you have in the back.

Here's your gear inches. You can multiply the numbers by pi and have the rollout. The first column is your cog set, 3x setup, 2x setup.



For reference, my son runs a 1x10 on his 24"; 34 tooth front, 11-36 rear and his gear inches span from 22.67 - 74.18. So essentially you are gaining a gear on the bottom and losing 2 gears on top. I think it's more important gain a gear on the bottom than to lose 2 up top.

Hope that helps with some of your decisions.


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## joeadnan (Oct 21, 2003)

Fargo1 said:


> 4) I already feel locked into a 1x10 setup simply due to the cranks I need. Just how hard is it putting a 10spd hub in the wheel. Is it a cost issue or a skill issue?


I'll have a go at this one. I am not sure that the fact that you want to change the crank necessarily means that you need to upgrade to a 10 speed hub. You can install a new crank and still keep the rear cassette/freewheel.

I understand that the rear wheel has a 7 speed cluster. Do you know if it is a freehub or freewheel?

7-speed freehubs are shorter than 8-speed. 8 speed, 9 speed, 10 speed (mountain) and 11 speed (Shimano) freehubs are all the same size.

The distance between individual cogs in a 7 speed cassette is the same as on a 8 speed cassette. So you can install 7 cogs from a 8 speed cassette onto a 7 speed freehub. First generation XTR 8 speed cassettes (CS-M900 and CS-M950) were available in 12-32T, which provides a good low gear in a lightweight package. Just remove the 12T. This change does not involve changing the shifters or derailleur.

Alternatively, you can change the freehub from a 7 speed freehub, to one that is compatible with 8, 9, 10 (mountain) and 11 (Shimano) cassettes. If you did this, you will need to re-dish the rear wheel, which is non-trivial if you have not built wheels yourself before. I would only do this if the rear wheel is a good wheel that you'd like to continue using. Otherwise, just get a new wheel built.


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

Thanks for the info guys. * If I use the Trailcraft (2x10) crank in front and the 7spd hub in rear what do I use for a chain?* Do I use a 7speed chain or 10 speed chain. I thought I would need a 10spd hub in rear so the chain would fit properly between the front and back.

I still think a 1x10 setup with the 32t chainring would be ideal. But it sounds like its not a simple matter to create a 10spd rear. I agree that I would rather have the lower gears than the top gears. We don't ride anywhere that he will be going fast. Except in the downhill sections. And gravity is more than enough for him there!

I am glad to hear I have other options with that crank. I don't think I have the time to devote to learning how to put a 10 speed cassette in the rear. *Does anyone offer a prebuilt 24" wheelset with a 10 spd cassette?* So although the 1x10 setup is what I really want for him, I may need to consider going the 2spd route instead. I wish the 7 speed mega gears had a closer ratio between 1st and 2nd. To bad you can't change out the gears on a freewheel. I haven't had his wheel off yet, to verify its a freewheel, but the number on his cogs is MF-TZ21, which appears to be a freewheel.

So, considering it may be too big of a task for me to change to a 10spd rear hub, I may have to reconsider my crank options and consider 2 spd setups. Of course it doesn't save a whole lot of money because if I put a new shifter for the front, I will also want to match that for the rear. Does anyone know if those 3 speed twist shifters can be setup for only 2 speeds on that trailcraft crank?

Thanks again guys for helping me think through this.


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

A 32t front with an 11-36 cassette spans 21.33 - 69.82 gear inches. You will be better off with the 2x setup and having a lower gear. 

Also, you may want to try measuring the rear hub spacing to see if you can even go with a larger cassette setup. If it doesn't have 135mm spacing, you may be stuck with the 7spd freewheel setup regardless.

Also, to your question above about type of chain. You always use what's compatible with your rear setup. In your case, 7spd chain.


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

Thanks stom - In the end I am sure you are correct that I will be better of with the 2x setup. By the time I got the 1x10 finished my kid would be needing a 26er. There are just too many complications for me at this point.

I hope to get to the bike coop this week sometime. Maybe they will have something else that works for me. If not, I will likely be going with a 2x setup with the trailcraft crank. I'll keep you informed. Thanks again.


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## joeadnan (Oct 21, 2003)

If I am not mistaken, you can use an 8 speed chain on 7 speed cassettes, because the individual cogs are of the same width and have the same spacing.


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

joeadnan said:


> If I am not mistaken, you can use an 8 speed chain on 7 speed cassettes, because the individual cogs are of the same width and have the same spacing.


Yeah, but is their any problem with the 7 speed chain on a 10 speed chainring? Or is the chainring forgiving enough to run any chain with it. From the previous responses I get the impression the chainring is forgiving and its only the cassette that is a concern when it comes to chains.


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## joeadnan (Oct 21, 2003)

Fargo1 said:


> Yeah, but is their any problem with the 7 speed chain on a 10 speed chainring? Or is the chainring forgiving enough to run any chain with it. From the previous responses I get the impression the chainring is forgiving and its only the cassette that is a concern when it comes to chains.


Both stom and I have answered this.

I don't have any personal experience with mixing 10 speed cranks (since most of the bikes under my care are 9 speed and earlier and the only 10 speed bike uses a dropstop ring). However, I expect that *you will be able to use the 10 speed crank without any problems*. I would suggest using an 8 speed chain. You can probably get away with a 9 speed chain also.


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

joeadnan said:


> Both stom and I have answered this.


Yeah, sorry if it sounded like I didn't believe you earlier. I was just trying to restate what my earlier concern was. But I certainly appreciate you telling me again.

I hope to make a trip into town this evening to visit the local bike workshop. I just found out about them so I'm not sure what to expect there. I believe they have some old donated bikes I might be able to purchase some parts off of. I thik they are also willing to help with repairs. So who knows, maybe I can find some knowlegdable guys there who can help me as much as you guys have. Used parts would certainly be cheaper and allow me to do more, so we'll see what happens. However, I don't expect much so I'll likely still be using the crank and things we've been talking about here. Thanks for all the help.


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

Prior to going to buy parts, you may want to measure your rear hub spacing, seat post diameter, handlebar diameter, steer tube, and seat tube diameter. Makes buying the right size parts easier.


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

stom_m3 said:


> Prior to going to buy parts, you may want to measure your rear hub spacing, seat post diameter, handlebar diameter, steer tube, and seat tube diameter. Makes buying the right size parts easier.


Yeah, good advice, thank you. I wouldn't have thought about it until I was standing there wondering if things would fit. How do I measure the rear hub spacing?


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

Remove the rear wheel and measure the distance between the dropouts.


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

stom_m3 said:


> Remove the rear wheel and measure the distance between the dropouts.


OK thanks, I was just going to measure the cassette/freewheel only. (Maybe this should be a clue that I'm not ready to relace a wheel as a 1x10)


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

I made it to the bike workshop, but didn't see anything I was interested in. Lots of Huffys and Murrys. Any cranks I found all looked as long as I had. I did find one that might have been a little shorter but it was hard to get an accurate measurement. I might go back again and see what I can find later.

So for now it looks like I need to make some final decisions. Either spend the cash on a new bike, which still won't be 100% what I want or I build what I have. My biggest hesitation with building is the tall cranks. I could change them out, but the bottom bracket doesn't have much drop so then I end up raising the seat to get full leg extension with the shorter crank. So I would really prefer a frame that came with a shorter crank. Maybe I am over analysing.


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

Fargo1 said:


> I could change them out, but the bottom bracket doesn't have much drop so then I end up raising the seat to get full leg extension with the shorter crank. So I would really prefer a frame that came with a shorter crank. Maybe I am over analysing.


The BB drop won't be too much different bike to bike +/- 10mm or so. If your budget is $300 here's what I would do;
1. Trailcraft cranks, front derailleur, shifter. $160
2. Kenda small block 8, $62

Sure there are many other possibilities but this is the easiest. Most other things will cost you a lot more dollars. Good luck.


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

stom_m3 said:


> The BB drop won't be too much different bike to bike +/- 10mm or so. If your budget is $300 here's what I would do;
> 1. Trailcraft cranks, front derailleur, shifter. $160
> 2. Kenda small block 8, $62
> 
> Sure there are many other possibilities but this is the easiest. Most other things will cost you a lot more dollars. Good luck.


Stom thank you for continuing to reply to my thread and help me work through this. I appreciate it. Looking at the BB drop I found that the C'dale race has about the lowest drop I've seen. Its actually 1.6cm lower. Thats a pretty sizeable amount. But you are correct that most other bikes are about 1cm lower. Which makes sence since the cranks are about 1cm longer. I'd love to have the geo with teh lower BB as it would help to keep the seat lower and give them more control. On the other hand a higher BB will reduce pedal strikes.

I put together a short spreadsheet today to view my options and I came to much the same conclusion as you have been saying all along.

1)Trailcraft cranks, front derailer, shifter and rear shifter (so the shifters match) $160-$180

2) I've been looking at the Bontraeger XR1 Comp tires, they are a little lighter than the small blocks and cheaper $50.

So for about $220 I could have the shorter cranks better shifters (?) and lighter tires. Which puts me at about $320 for the bike. Which isn't bad. Its not exactly what I would build if I had more resources and skills, but I think it would be a decent bike.

I guess the question I have to figure out then is that built bike better than finding a used Trek or Spec or something with the proper length cranks to begin with. Will their be enough weight savings and performance difference to put in the time to build this or do I wait for a different platform. At $300 I'm sure I can find a used bike with 152mm cranks. Although it would probably have a boat anchor fork.

As stated at the beginning of this thread, their is also the C'dale race with the air fork for another $200+/-. Bascially the price of the fork.

What are your thoughts on the crank upgrade? Is this crank better/lighter enough to be worth doing the mods listed above. Or do I wait for a different bike that has the proper length crank and lighten it up in other ways.

EDIT: I forgot to ask. Do you think I will be able to re use my bottom braket or will I have to purchase a new one?


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Fargo1 said:


> ... Do you think I will be able to re use my bottom braket or will I have to purchase a new one?


Did you find out if the bb would work?


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

antonio said:


> Did you find out if the bb would work?


I have not figured that out yet. I started looking at drilling out the existing cranks and trying to see if that will work. So the Trailcraft cranks got put on hold. But I'm coming back around to them, so I will have to figure that out. Thanks for bringing it back to my attention.

I think the hardest thing for me in doing this build is figuring out what will work and what wont. Well that and the cost to benefit ratio of it all. I'll post back when I finally figure some things out.


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

antonio said:


> Did you find out if the bb would work?


I was doing some work on this bike this weekend with a friend and he noticed my cranks are stamped 160. Taking another measurement I believe my current cranks are actually 160m and not 165mm as indcated on Raleighs website. With this new information, I have decided its not worth $80 for the Pinecraft cranks to gain only 8mm. That just doesn't seem like enough length difference to make a big difference. So if I change cranks now I will be looking for something closer to 140mm. So I never made any more progress on the viablity of my old BB with these cranks. I'm now looking for some donar cranks to be cut down to 140-145mm.


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