# 12" Balance Bike w/disc brakes - Commencal Ramones 12"



## Raivyn (Oct 10, 2012)

Folks may already know about this, but for the benefit of those who don't...


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https://flic.kr/p/3









The bike is currently on pre-sale at Commencal USA. The disc option can be ordered from the UK site. I would imagine if you called your order into Commencal USA you could ask them to help with the disc order and possibly save on shipping.

Nice to not have to machine your own parts - the brakes are hydraulic, too.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Thanks, was talking about this earlier today. A friend was sure they'd seen one somewhere.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Not sure really needed for balance bike, but would be cool to have the option with the disk tabs/disk option on all the small bikes for people who wanted to. V or disk bosses on 16's should be standard as coasters inadequate.

Get some sweet rides like this...

Gavins Old DJ Bike at My Garage in Troutdale, Oregon, United States - photo by vpfreebird - Pinkbike

Practically, I think for balance bikes or 12's Spawn probably has it right.

Spawn Cycles Tengu | Spawn Cycles - Born to Ride


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## oren_hershco (Mar 11, 2006)

Looks cool, but I think it goes in the wrong direction. Hydraulic disc brakes are expensive and easily bent. They are also dangerous - if a kid stuffs his finger there a severe injury may occur.

Obviously the reason for this setup is the lousy alternative: mechanical brakes (calipers/ U brakes/ V brake). All the mechanical systems have too much friction for little kid's hand, therefore are almost useless, even when new.

There is a combination, however, which nobody seems to try: HYDRAULIC DRUM BRAKE. Drum brake are cheaper than discs; They are less vulnerable; They are less dangerous; they rarely go out of tune; they require almost no maintenance; and they can produce sufficient stopping power (the toddlers are not going to do any serious downhilling, right?)

If you add a hydraulic line, to avoid the friction of the cable, you get a system which is easy to operate, safe, and cheaper than a disc.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

A kid that weighs about as much as a case of beer riding a bike with wheels not that much bigger than those on an RC car really has even a remote need for disc brakes? 

I think it's silly.


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> A kid that weighs about as much as a case of beer riding a bike with wheels not that much bigger than those on an RC car really has even a remote need for disc brakes?
> 
> I think it's silly.


Agreed when considering the balance bike, but when you think about a 20-30lb little kid having to pull hard on a hand brake at 20mph on a pedal bike I think it makes loads of sense. Rim brakes are too hard to pull for munchkin hands. The ease of use of disc brakes makes them the best option for kids, and the sooner they learn the better.


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

Do we apply the same logic to the cars we drive?
How many of us have more than 1 car, or seats that are rarely fully occupied, or an engine that's massivley oversized for the short commute through a traffic jam.
Yes there are safety concerns but these are no more than the same as can exist with spokes spinning around, or riding without a helmet. Teach the kids to put saftey first and these risks are minimised.
There are alternatives but unless they are cheap and effective they won't get adopted.
The majority of people and therefore kids will end up on Walmart specials so will there be a mass campaign to ensure forks are fitted the right way, brakes that don't work are maintained so they actually do something and helmets become compulsory for kids and parents...probably not, but that's why adults are deemed responsible.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

taletotell said:


> Agreed when considering the balance bike, but when you think about a 20-30lb little kid having to pull hard on a hand brake at 20mph on a pedal bike I think it makes loads of sense. Rim brakes are too hard to pull for munchkin hands. The ease of use of disc brakes makes them the best option for kids, and the sooner they learn the better.


A decent set of well adjusted rim brakes aren't hard to pull, at least IME. Yes, discs are better, and worth it if your kid is doing high speed DH type stuff regularly. But really, if a kid isn't strong enough to squeeze a brake lever, you really going to let that same kid hit 20+ mph on dirt regularly? Hell, I barely ever go that fast. And this isn't even a bike, it's a scooter.

I get that people can and will go overboard as far as blinging stuff out, but like I said, disc brakes on a scooter are just silly IMO. I see the vehicular equivalent of that thing as something along the lines of this:


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

How hard it is to pull rim brakes varies with a few factors. On v brakes you can adjust tension, and cable routing helps too, but if you have u brakes it can be hard to pull for an adult. This becomes a real problem when you consider how many bikes under 20 inches only use coaster (which are super sketchy on dirt) or u brakes. V brakes are better, by why not just move immediately to disc and get all the benefits of that system?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

taletotell said:


> How hard it is to pull rim brakes varies with a few factors. On v brakes you can adjust tension, and cable routing helps too, but if you have u brakes it can be hard to pull for an adult. This becomes a real problem when you consider how many bikes under 20 inches only use coaster (which are super sketchy on dirt) or u brakes. V brakes are better, by why not just move immediately to disc and get all the benefits of that system?


On a real bike for riding on trails, yes, u-brakes suck, coaster brakes can be really tricky (though they sure do lock 'em up good) V-brakes are better, and a good set of disc brakes are obviously best. But for most kids on 20" bikes, I really think they're operating well within the range of v-brake performance, and there really isn't that much return on going through a bunch the effort and cost of adding discs to their bikes. V-brakes can be done for a fraction of the cost of discs. Hell for the price of adding disc brakes to a bike not meant for them, you can probably do V's plus a full BMX bike. If a bike is disc ready of course and you've got some around or can do them cheaply, no reason not to. But again, this thread is about a scooter w/ a disc, which I still think is pretty silly.

:thumbsup:


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## indianadave (Apr 27, 2010)

Can we say "overkill"??? and "pinch point? and "spinning razor of death"???
And even so, that disk is way oversized for a little kid.
My 6 year old handled v-brakes on her 20" Hotrock just fine... and they stopped her on a dime.


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

Lovin all the negatives but how many have actually read what is being offered before passing judgement.
1. The disc breaks don't come as standard it's an optional extra for those who want them
2. If you do want then then they come in 140mm flavour
3. you can fit 160mm if you want which is what's shown in this photo and was probably just for the show to show what could be done.

Any responsible adult that does put disc should knows the risks and takes all the precautions they can and probably rides themselves and kits said child out in gloves and a helmet. How many pics do we see on the forum of kids and parents without?


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Part of the allure of the balance bike is even as my kid is 5 now and has been pedaling since he turned 3, we still keep the balance bike around for general shenanigans and indoor use, in addition to my younger child starting to play with it. I can leave it lay around and they can play with it inside without me constantly hovering over them. A disc brake? Nope nope nope. I prefer my kids to keep all their fingers. 

When my son turned 4 he had zero issue working a kid-sized Tektro vbrake lever. 

I assume this is for a very niche audience. Like, the dirt jumping or DH parents who live next to Whistler and have some child gravity biking prodigy that they are raising. For them, this is cool. But Spawn and others somehow got a proper sized vbrake on a balance bike...


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

Grifter knows it. 
I personally love the simplicity of disk. Less likely to bend, less effected by wet, easier to control. V brakes work fine I agree, but they are the tool or the past. My kids on 16" wheels are learning to jump and riding pretty fast on flow trails. When they lock up a coaster they just about bounce out of control, and the u brakes are slow to stop her and hard to pull.
I don't see why these would be overkill any more than v brakes. Disc brakes are cheap now (Hayes MX 2) and the hubs are getting there.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

XJaredX said:


> I assume this is for a very niche audience. Like, the dirt jumping or DH parents who live next to Whistler and have some child gravity biking prodigy that they are raising. For them, this is cool. ...


Personally, I think the buyers are going to mainly consist of mtb gear weenies whose kids who aren't really doing anything out of the ordinary with them. Which is totally their prerogative, of course. But to me, it just seems like buying a fancy AM bike for putting around the local dog-walker loop, or a jacked up Hummer for a grocery-getter. More about the bling than anything else really.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

For me it's just the safety thing. When I'm working with a bike in the garage on the stand, I have to keep vigilant watch to make sure my 2 y.o. daughter doesn't spin a wheel and stick her finger in. Don't really want that on one of their own bikes. My 5 y.o. understands. But considering he can endo using a vbrake on one of his bikes if he wanted to, I don't need to go disc for him yet.


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

After much googling on this subject I honestly thought I'd found the answer to all these concerns.









No worries over spokes or discs hurting little hands
No need to worry about little hands having the strength or ability to pull brakes
No worries about little parts squashed under rolling wheels
No pedals to bash little shins
No fear of falling off or going too fast
RESULT!.......darn missed the frame and the risk of splinters. Back to the drawing board 

Hope others see the funny side of this post


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

I tried to get one but they are already sold out for christmas. Dang.


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## NateDubya (Nov 21, 2014)

Wow... This reminds me of the Krusty O's cereal prize inside each box. How dumb are these people? Any kid I've ever met would be curios enough to stick their fingers into that rotor within the first week of owning this toy. My kid has a strider and is constantly flipping it upside down to spin the wheels to pretend to work on it with his plastic tools...


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

And thats exactly why its aimed at a secific market.
One that understands its not for unsupervised use; and realises its not a TOY.

All bikes could be considered dangerous in the wrong or unsupervised hands.
Theres enough dicsclaimers on the items when they are shipped so its down the the adult to ensure they are followed. 

Theres probably as many kids injuries caused by spokes, poor fitting or lack of protection, hey what the hell why dont we just ban kids riding bikes completely just to be safe!


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## NateDubya (Nov 21, 2014)

On a side note I am considering marketing a childrens tool set with a real sawzall and box knife. To be used under adult supervision of course!! Have you ever met a 2 year old....? And yes it is a toy...


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## scoon (Aug 26, 2005)

It looks cool but definitely overkill for my family. Both my boys (4 and 8) ride two wheels on their own and never used training wheels. They both learned using a balance bike. I never once felt that they needed brakes on the BB when they were riding it.


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

Lets just clarify a few things.
The standard 12" Ramones does not come with any brakes.
Its no different that your basic strider and is designed for kids from 1 upto about 2 maybe 4.
There are some after market parts that are available which the manufacturer has designed to be added and this includes brake. The only difference is that Commencal have relised that brakes have moved on and that small hands lack strength, and that discs and hydro give better braking.
If your child rides the type of terrain that require these brakes then you can buy them but you dont have to.
The vast majority of kids wont get a ramones 12" due to price but there are some parents that will see this as a means to get thier kids riding techincal stuff that does warrent this type of upgrade. Thise same partents ride these places themselves so understand safety and bikes.
The addition of disc brakes moves the basic bike out of the toy catagory and into tecnical sports kit designed for a specific use.

If you dont have that need/use then you simply dont buy the upgrades or go with another brand.
Those that do buy know what they are doing and probably ride trails that are predominently uplift and down hill based with decents that warrent brakes that you can trust implicitly.


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## JMD123JMD (Dec 11, 2014)

Today i was out with my kid on our hot walk. He is doing pretty great for an almost 3 year old kid. I will say that he is ready for the idea of a brake. He gets going so fast that putting his feet down twist his feet. And I think its a bad habit. It would be interesting if they made the disk on the brake solid so or the holes so small that you could not put a finger in there. Also if they rounded the edge. Im not mechanical at all but seems like an easy solve. Im gonna look at the post about installing V Brakes.


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## JMD123JMD (Dec 11, 2014)

Here is another option that looks pretty interesting:

Spawn Cycles Tengu | Spawn Cycles - Born to Ride

No disrespect if the OP was trying to sell the disk bike


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

griffter18 said:


> The addition of disc brakes moves the basic bike out of the toy catagory


The fact that it's a scooter moves it right back into the toy category.
It's like putting hydraulic disc brakes on a tricycle.


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