# Passion for E-Bikes...because POWER IS FUN!!!



## erosive (May 15, 2009)

I'm an die-hard MTB rider, since the mid 80s, and I love pedaling.
I also ride moto, and love the feeling of thrust and speed.
Then, I tried an E-bike, and it made me GRIN like never before.
These things are so fun, so I built myself one, and I love it!
Who else has a E-Bike?
What are your thoughts? 
:cornut::cornut::cornut::cornut::cornut::cornut::cornut::cornut::cornut:
SeaOtter is having a E-bike race this year...
...but they are turds and only allow Bosch systems...
...I would crush them all with this power...
This one weighs 39lbs, mega torque in every gear, only 7lbs kit.
It feels just like a regular bike, handles great! \m/ :devil: \m/


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Watermelons are delicious, but it's a messy fruit to eat.


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

the greatest joy is getting dirty...every kid likes playing in the mud.
The great thing about getting dirty, is ya just wash it off.


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## Singletrackd (May 3, 2015)

This one time I was out skiing with my Friends and we were ripping through the trees out of bounds when we suddenly stumbled across the strawberry hot springs nudest colony. Well I guess you could say we where surprised but the fun wasn't over yet. It just so happened that the Denver Broncos cheerleaders where having their annual cheer powwow at the nudest colony. We skipped introductions and skied straight into the hot springs and we're fondled and fed grapes all night.

It was awsome


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

BURN IN HELL!
















Nah I'm just kidding. As long as you don't ride on non motorized trails, I am cool with it.


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## blue_biker (Sep 7, 2008)

Erosive....congrats. You picked the perfect screen name for your bike.


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

I picked the name based on what hikers called me on my regular MTBs for decades.
hehehehehe


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

Jeep trayle must be fun on that, eh?


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Black is a terrible color. Hope I never get that fat and lazy.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

"Sad, Sad little man" Buzz Lightyear, Andy's room, 1995


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

lol at the fat comment...I am athletic...could squash many here...
Having strength and enjoying a motor are NOT connected...twerp


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

Jeep trails, gravel roads, etc...everything that was boring on my MTB is now hella fun.
Fun haters need never try...but those who like fun should TRY one.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Hold on y'all while I grab some beer and popcorn.

This should be good.


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## ElBorracho62 (Nov 6, 2014)

props on the build... But as a 285 pound Clyde.... I wouldn't be caught dead on one.


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## Speed Goat (Dec 31, 2013)

Isn't it just an electric moped? Cool, but I agree with Moe....does not belong on non motorized trails.


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## blue_biker (Sep 7, 2008)

erosive said:


> lol at the fat comment...I am athletic...could squash many here...


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Don't forget to post some sweet videos.
That bike looks perfect. 







Perfect ammo for the opposition to close more mtb trails. It has power and throttle control.


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

Ya'll sound like Roadies...I remember when MTB was the fun crowd.

I love how quick ya'll are to judge and throw insults when you know NOTHING about me and my intentions.
Grumpy ass trolls, you can't take away my fun, holler all ya want


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

Yes, you could call it a "moped", and perhaps legally that is what it classifies as....
...but it rides like a quality MTB with good suspension, weight and angles...
...so it is a LOT more than "just a moped".


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

erosive said:


> Ya'll sound like Roadies...I remember when MTB was the fun crowd.
> 
> I love how quick ya'll are to judge and throw insults when you know NOTHING about me and my intentions.
> Grumpy ass trolls, you can't take away my fun, holler all ya want


Huh? Not sure what that's all about, but anyway that think does look badass and I bet it's a blast.


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

thanks 

(it was directed at the nice people who called me fat, lazy, destroying the trails, helping to close trails, etc...none of which describe me)


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## GeePhroh (Jan 13, 2004)

Needs a backcountry awesome strap.


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

I liked when you said "trolls."


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## Speed Goat (Dec 31, 2013)

erosive said:


> Yes, you could call it a "moped", and perhaps legally that is what it classifies as....
> ...but it rides like a quality MTB with good suspension, weight and angles...
> ...so it is a LOT more than "just a moped".


You know what they say about fat chicks and mopeds....


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

erosive said:


> thanks
> 
> (it was directed at the nice people who called me fat, lazy, destroying the trails, helping to close trails, etc...none of which describe me)


I didn't read any comments saying you are destroying the trails or helping to close trails. I think you posted this looking for a fight. Enjoy it on your local motorcycle trails, and take your thread to a motorcycle forum.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

you'll go far here


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Harold said:


> you'll go far here


Until the battery dies.


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

what engine is that? is it noisy? how long the battery lasts? so many questions..
I am not sure the legality of this, but I am interested to know about the engine.


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

Motor cycle.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

inter said:


> what motor is that? is it noisy? how long the battery lasts? so many questions..
> I am not sure the legality of this, but I am interested to know about the motor.


FIFY. You're welcome!


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

That! Is! AWESOME!!

The responses here are a bag of d*cks. Where, oh where does he say he rides non-motorized trails?


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Did he ever say he didn't? Also, this is a MOUNTAIN BIKE forum. Not a motorcycle forum.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

mountainbiker24 said:


> Did he ever say he didn't? Also, this is a MOUNTAIN BIKE forum. Not a moped forum.


 FIFY. Go ride an e-bike on a trail. Try not to have fun.


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## Mentor (Aug 14, 2015)

That is a sick looking bike. I note the mounts for bar lights: do you ride singletrack at night on that thing?


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

Yeah, I ride at night, or anytime I can. It rocks!
The feeling of speed in places I could never have it before is so rad.
Gravel road drifting UPHILL...wow!

Yes it has some power...but it IS a "bicycle" that I use in the "mountains"..so it is MTB+E.
When the battery does wear out, it isn't heavy or weird, it's just a bike, and rides great!

The battery I use, weighs about 12lbs in my backpack and holds 52v20ah of juice.
A charge goes 30 miles of road at 35mph-40mph, or 15-20 miles of steep technical terrain with torque to climb anything.
Less than a dollar per charge and the battery lasts 500-1000 charges depending on care.


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

mountainbiker24 said:


> I didn't read any comments saying you are destroying the trails or helping to close trails. I think you posted this looking for a fight. Enjoy it on your local motorcycle trails, and take your thread to a motorcycle forum.


"You know what they say about fat chicks and mopeds...."
"Perfect ammo for the opposition to close more mtb trails. It has power and throttle"
"as a 285 pound Clyde.... I wouldn't be caught dead on one."
""Sad, Sad little man" "
"Hope I never get that fat and lazy."
"BURN IN HELL!"

I don't want a fight, but those are hurtful words...
What if I really was fat? (i'm not) Is Fat-shaming REALLY cool these days?
Where did the heart go? ...are racist terms accepted here too? gay bashing?
Seems dark that this is accepted...

I came here with PASSION about this awesome BIKE that I added power to.
It took a lot of effort and I just wanted to share my excitement...

sorry to rub so many of you SOOOOOO wrong...


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

...to bring the vibe back up...here's a lil Oregon shred for ya.
That's me with the black and green TLD jersey...hope ya dig.
Eagles Rest Video - Pinkbike


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## Mojave G (Jan 30, 2015)

erosive said:


> ...to bring the vibe back up...here's a lil Oregon shred for ya.
> That's me with the black and green TLD jersey...hope ya dig.
> Eagles Rest Video - Pinkbike


That's a fast 'lil dog! Does it even have legs, or does it just torpedo down the trail? :eekster:


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

That's Virgil, he's a beast.
I always expect him to ache or get raw feet, but he always wants more.
Hella champion


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

You are here looking for a fight, and I don't mind giving you one. You're trolling a mountain bike forum with a bull$hit motorcycle thread. Get it out of here. Unless I missed it, nobody stated anything in this thread about you getting trails closed except you, but I'm glad you brought it up.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Glide the Clyde said:


> FIFY. Go ride an e-bike on a trail. Try not to have fun.


No thanks. I like having trails that are open to bikes.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

erosive said:


> lol at the fat comment...I am athletic...could squash many here...
> Having strength and enjoying a motor are NOT connected...twerp


Oh?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

"You are here looking for a fight, and I don't mind giving you one. You're trolling a mountain bike forum with a bull$hit motorcycle thread. Get it out of here. Unless I missed it, nobody stated anything in this thread about you getting trails closed except you, but I'm glad you brought it up."

Piss off Twat...if the mods want me gone, they'll remove me.

You have a shitty attitude...


"No thanks. I like having trails that are open to bikes."
I never suggested harming a bike only trail...and it's not my plan either.
Find one that is NOT closed that you CAN ride...it'll be fun


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

No, I enjoy having trail access. E-bikes used on mountain bike trails will cause trail access issues. Do you deny riding your e-bike on non-motorized trails? If you tell us you keep the e-bike on motorcycle, jeep, and gravel trails, I'll leave your thread.


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## Speed Goat (Dec 31, 2013)

I guess from your post you didn't get the joke....


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

EugeneTheJeep said:


> That's a fast 'lil dog! Does it even have legs, or does it just torpedo down the trail? :eekster:


That's an E-dog......  lol


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Alright mtbr24, you win, neg rep, whining about the op somehow threatening access to *your* trails, calling him out on where he rides, calling his e-bike a motorcycle, and all. Just know, you're sort of a little *****.


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## mudguy (Jan 16, 2015)

E-bikers...universally hated by pretentious cyclists, flat billed dirt bikers, granola hikers, and **** depositing equestrians.

I kind of want one so I can go out at night and wreck some super secret groomed single track someone has spent half their life on. It's fun watching mountain bikers break down and cry.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Pathetic.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Hey erosive, pm me a plan for your e-build. I'd like to see what it takes and will consider building one myself.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

mountainbiker24 said:


> You are here looking for a fight, and I don't mind giving you one. You're trolling a mountain bike forum with a bull$hit motorcycle thread. Get it out of here. Unless I missed it, nobody stated anything in this thread about you getting trails closed except you, but I'm glad you brought it up.


Dude, you are so butt hurt over this. Get over it man. It's the future. They are coming.

You probably drive a Prius too.

That thing is awesone. You and your buddies are just pissed that your strava times are going to get crushed now.


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## mudguy (Jan 16, 2015)

tiretracks said:


> Pathetic.


No sense of humor?


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

mudguy said:


> No sense of humor?


Most of these posters are serious, no humor intended. That's what makes it so pathetic.


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## mudguy (Jan 16, 2015)

I want to see someone take one of these "motorcycles" out on the local MX track. 5 minutes tops before your carbon frame is turned into splinters and someone throws a beer bottle at your head.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Glide the Clyde said:


> Alright mtbr24, you win, neg rep, whining about the op somehow threatening access to *your* trails, calling him out on where he rides, calling his e-bike a motorcycle, and all. Just know, you're sort of a little *****.


You're sort of pathetic. I call it like it is. If you want to threaten access for all mountain bikers by opening the doors to electric mountain bikes, especially during the fight against the ban in Wilderness areas, then I'll call you out. I don't give a sh!t what you call me or say to try and justify your pathetic moped. You still haven't owned up to where you ride this.

And tiretracks, damn right I'm serious. I know how hard people work for trail access. I thought you were ignoring me...


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

mudguy said:


> I want to see someone take one of these "motorcycles" out on the local MX track. 5 minutes tops before your carbon frame is turned into splinters and someone throws a beer bottle at your head.


Exactly. Keep them on the gravel roads and motorized trails.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Zerort said:


> Dude, you are so butt hurt over this. Get over it man. It's the future. They are coming.
> 
> You probably drive a Prius too.
> 
> That thing is awesone. You and your buddies are just pissed that your strava times are going to get crushed now.


Oh no... You hurt my feelings:sad: So what if I drive a Prius? Are you saying caring about the environment is bad in some way? If e-bikes are the future, then be ready for trail closures and more fights for land access. Oh, and I've never used Strava. I'm not much into bragging about my bike or exaggerating my abilities. I'll leave that to the tools around here


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

mudguy said:


> I want to see someone take one of these "motorcycles" out on the local MX track. 5 minutes tops before your carbon frame is turned into splinters and someone throws a beer bottle at your head.


^^^highly doubtful tough guy.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

Right tool for the job. For mountain biking, the right tool is a mountain bike. For powered riding, the right tool is a motorcycle. For old or infirm people, an e-bike might be a reasonable alternative to a motorcycle or a mountain bike, but in the end, while I expect the industry to sell a lot of e-bikes, I don't expect to see many of them on the trails I like to ride. The trails that are close in to the metro area might see more of them, but I ride in locations where even a lot of the mountain biking community doesn't make the effort to get to. Don't expect to see e-bikes there.


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

psst...it's not carbon 

So...I believe I learned something new...
I took a few years off the forums, and missed this whole E-bike hatred meeting.
My local riding friends and I agree, it's not for the prime singletrack...and that's the plan I had all along for this new bike...but it IS perfect for a lot of things.
We build downhill tracks and singletrack...and will build a track just for these types of bikes...nobody will be hurt or loose their favorite trail. Please believe me.

As I understand it, the biggest worries are "Damage to trails" and "closure of trails".
I agree with those, but personally I think instant hate for e-bikes is "short sighted".

The bigger picture that I believe is being missed is as follows.
MTB will benefit from E-Bikes if they embrace them. 
This does not mean letting them wreck trails or behave poorly...but teach them, and educate them on the rules and regions that they can ride.
MTB clubs pass out trail maps, list trail conditions, offer guides, and promote cycling in their areas...I think they should do that for e-bikes too.
It would not take much effort to make a map of e-bike friendly riding areas...and treat e-bike riders with kindness, so that our advice will be listened to.
People don't listen to advice from people who are insulting them, they are much more likely to do the opposite of what a dick demands. 
The more "fat and lazy" people who ride bikes, electric or pedaled, the better for the planet.
The more citizens riding bicycles and electrics means more voting power next time you want to open a new trail or battle the SierraClub or whatever..
The more people riding electric, the more likelihood of E-Bike trails being opened...and you would be allowed to ride those new trails on your MTB.


When Christians tried to stop Contraception...they tried fear and hate and shame.
It didn't work....it made tons of unwanted babies....opposite of success.
The education and acceptance plan goes MUCH further....please try to see that.


I apologize for causing drama, I honestly didn't know this would blow up in my face.
Much love ya'll, happy riding, whatever ya like to ride.


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

My goals with this bike...to be clear...and stop assumptions....
1- It will get me deeper into the forest than my pedals would.
This is why I liked MTB so much...I can see more wilderness, and get to further places hikers can't, experiencing more of the world I live in, deepening my horizons.

A hiker would have to hike 2-3 days and camp out to cover the ground that I can in a day long ride.
I can find those mountain lakes that are only seen by a couple people a year.
I like tapping into that magic and mystery, alone with my thoughts and nature.

Now, with this toy, I can go MUCH further, and get even deeper into the forest than a bicycle can in a day.
If my battery runs out, I can solar charge, or just ride it like a bike.
I just want to experience the most my world has to offer.

2- I can "self-shuttle" downhill runs, without waiting for a crew.
Once a good track gets built, I'll be able to bomb the trails on a bike lighter than my 951.
Once at the bottom...I don't wait for a shuttle, I kick on the motor.
The I drift and scream up the road and do it again...and again...and again...
An E-Bike DownhillPark would cost SOOOOOO much less to build, because the bikes ARE the lift...a shop that rented E-bikes at the bottom of such a track would be a very good business model....wink wink ...all ya need is a slope and some shovels.

3- I can build new trails faster.
One of our trail building techniques is to clear the brush for a line, then ride up and down it a dozen times on a Moto...this beds in the track and saves a ton of hours of digging.
Once the Moto "tills" the dirt, rakes shovels, and McLoeds finish the surface.
This E-bike will haul me and tools to the trail, up the trail, bed in the trail, and ride the trail and back home while having a blast.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

E-bike: check
Religion: Check


Now all we need is some politics thrown in.

Hillary for 2017!


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Erosive makes a point, regardless of his taunting demeanor.

Ebikes are coming. Embrace the revolution.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

the-one1 said:


> E-bike: check
> Religion: Check
> 
> Now all we need is some politics thrown in.
> ...


Wait, I thought the election was in 2016????


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Zerort said:


> Wait, I thought the election was in 2016????


It is, but she doesn't start the job until 2017.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

the-one1 said:


> It is, but she doesn't start the job until 2017.


Yeah, it was sarcasm.


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

awww...no actual responses...lots of subject changing...no counter points?
...I guess thoughtful conversation was too deep to hope for...
...maybe it's still too early, I'll be patient.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

Crankout said:


> Erosive makes a point, regardless of his taunting demeanor.


Yup


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## mudguy (Jan 16, 2015)

erosive said:


> awww...no actual responses...lots of subject changing...no counter points?
> ...I guess thoughtful conversation was too deep to hope for...
> ...maybe it's still too early, I'll be patient.


Wait, you seriously thought mountain bikers would be accepting of your brand new toy? Oh dear...


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## mudguy (Jan 16, 2015)

Zerort said:


> ^^^highly doubtful tough guy.


My point is, it isn't a dirt bike


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## LittleBitey (Nov 10, 2012)

Since there are no boundaries and I'm curious:

How much coin you drop on that whip?


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

LittleBitey said:


> Since there are no boundaries and I'm curious:
> 
> How much coin you drop on that whip?


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

$2000 Demo bike, $1500 NEW Ebay wheels, $800 fork, $2200 motor/battery kit.
Complete as shown in the original post, $6500.

Here's a video by the most passionate E-biker out there, that shows my kit and the type of power and sound it puts out....mine is setup much better.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

Whoa. $6,500 will buy a pretty nice dirt bike. If I wanted a powered 2 wheel vehicle for offroad, seems like a real dirt bike is the easy choice.


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

True^
...unless you prefer the quick handling and whip-ability of a MTB...then this is way better and simpler to maintain...especially if you already have a heap of bike parts to play with and are familiar with bike mechanic work.
This will keep up with a 125 on the tight technical stuff.
True, it's not a motocross bike, it's something NEW 
Power to weight ratio...ya know.

(I ride Moto too)


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

mountainbiker24 said:


> No, I enjoy having trail access. E-bikes used on mountain bike trails will cause trail access issues. Do you deny riding your e-bike on non-motorized trails? If you tell us you keep the e-bike on motorcycle, jeep, and gravel trails, I'll leave your thread.


Well, that is what he mentioned in post #12.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

erosive said:


> My goals with this bike...to be clear...and stop assumptions....
> 1- It will get me deeper into the forest than my pedals would.
> This is why I liked MTB so much...I can see more wilderness, and get to further places hikers can't, experiencing more of the world I live in, deepening my horizons.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't all of this apply to a dirt bike?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Damn, 2200 bucks just for the battery/motor kit huh?
That's crazy. 

I would totally rock one of those on motor-friendly trails.


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

Moto: stinky, noise carries for miles, heavy, no solar charger, no pedals if gas runs out, POLLUTES THE PLANET

E-Bike: scentless, noise carries 100ft, light and great handling, pedals option, solar rechargeable, GOOD FOR THE PLANET.

Moto's are neat, but I prefer the way bikes handle, much quicker, more flickable and more trickable...more fun and natural than the massive weight of a Moto that takes more effort to move around,brake, accelerate, etc.

I love being able to be totally silent when I want, pedals are still fun to me too.
I havn't given up pedaling...I still have nice trail bikes, I just love options.

There are many levels of kits available...many much cheaper, some more expensive.
Based on my research, this version has the best power to weight ratio and durability.
There is currently a chinese kit that works VERY well and bolts onto any old frame, and it only costs around $1200 complete with battery. This is the new, super powerful, cheap option...
Bafang BBSHD 48V 1000W Mid Drive Kit


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## jim c (Dec 5, 2014)

When I 1st saw the OP's bike pics I thought YES! It looks very nice to me because I like ripping single track. My 2nd thought was about the reactions we've seen here. I guess there are a lot of riders who've had trail access issues; this is something I've only read about. I live in a large metro area and if I don't want to drive multi hours to Natl. Forests than I ride local bike-only parks. No complaining about that because the trails in town here rock. If someone is *****ing about e-bikes because they are different, well that is just lame. As a former moto guy I've often thought it would be awesome to go faster on my mtb. I like Speed and its pals Drifting and Flying. The riders who damage the local trails around here are using to much brake not to much speed.


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

That's an expensive build.


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## IFallDown (Mar 2, 2014)

e-bike is not for me! I agree it is your right to ride one if you so desire! I also believe they should not be used on local non-motorized bike trails and believe they would be boring on motorcycle trails or jeep trails.


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## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

Bicycle: a vehicle composed of two wheels held in a frame one behind the other, propelled by pedals and steered with handlebars attached to the front wheel.

Motorcycle: a two-wheeled vehicle that is powered by a motor and has no pedals.

What you have is not a bicycle. It is literally a MOTORcycle.

You're trying to call it an MTB-E because you ride it on mountain bike trails, and because you've made it lightweight with MTB parts. With pedals, for when you run out of gas.

So yes:
a) You're going to tear up trails
b) You're going to freak the sh!t out of people riding BICYCLES on trails due to the sheer speed you will suddenly be able to ride
c) You're going to make the "hiker/walker" vs "biker" situation far worse than it already is.

So seeing as what you have there is by definition NOT a bicycle, you're on the wrong forum. "Opinion" has nothing to do with it.

The ONLY possible way out is if you ride it on the street to get to a trail, at which point you ride without a motor.


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

erosive said:


> E-Bike: scentless, noise carries 100ft, light and great handling, pedals option, solar rechargeable, GOOD FOR THE PLANET.


Curious what the actual benefits are to the planet. Please explain.

Personally, I can think of better ways to spend $6500.


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

Ryguy- it pollutes less than a gas powered moto....which is better for the planet....easy
( the whole statement was referring to the previous question about "why not get a moto?" )

Lets see how many people can prove themselves a FOOL by lecturing me further, after I already stated this NOT for non-motorized trails...jeeze reading comprehension sucks around here...smh

READ THE THREAD>>>THEN COMMENT...lord...it's not that hard...
Post#60,61 will help you a lot


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## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

erosive said:


> Lets see how many people can prove themselves a FOOL by lecturing me further, after I already stated this NOT for non-motorized trails...jeeze reading comprehension sucks around here...smh
> 
> READ THE THREAD>>>THEN COMMENT...lord...it's not that hard...





erosive said:


> It will get me deeper into the forest than my pedals would.





erosive said:


> I can "self-shuttle" downhill runs





erosive said:


> I can build new trails faster.


Hmmmmmmmmm who's the one with reading comprehension problems here?


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

post #60 and 61 explain things in clear english....please read them.

Noot- I stand by all those comments...which don't you understand?
I CAN go deeper into the forest with electric assist.
I CAN self-shuttle on moto-friendly downhill tracks.
I CAN carry more tools and get further up a mountain to build those trails than a human alone...if the human climbed it, he would be half tired by the time he started doing the trail work...with assistance, I can be fresh and work longer.

Moto-friendly downhill tracks...if I build it, I can ride it...and it will RULE! 
\m/  \m/


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## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

erosive said:


> post #60 and 61 explain things in clear english....please read them.
> 
> Noot- I stand by all those comments...which don't you understand?
> I CAN go deeper into the forest with electric assist.
> ...


"moto friendly downhill trails" eh? Where can these be found?

What you're talking about are motox trails (though not typically downhill). Technically bicycles are allowed on motox trails, but of course you don't see this because of all the reasons I and others mentioned above. It cannot and will not work.


----------



## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

Flucod said:


> Just think how MUCH more you could do with a full on motorcycle!


Exactly. An electric one, with enough battery that you'll get tired before it dies. No pedals required.

Oh wait, these exist! And there are places to ride them!

I think they even have forums for that too... Wow, they do! 
Dirt


----------



## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

Another thing to remember here. The faster you go, the wider the trail needs to be. Singletrack is out.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

erosive said:


> Ryguy- it pollutes less than a gas powered moto....which is better for the planet....easy
> ( the whole statement was referring to the previous question about "why not get a moto?" )
> 
> Lets see how many people can prove themselves a FOOL by lecturing me further, after I already stated this NOT for non-motorized trails...jeeze reading comprehension sucks around here...smh
> ...


If it's not used on non-moto trails, then I'm having a tough time getting pissed off. And you've outlined clearly why it's more fun than a dirt bike.

I can even see how that would be a lot of fun on the east side of the Cascades where there are tons of motorcycle trails.

I guess my biggest issue would be those that would ride an e-bike on a designated non-motorized trail.

Oh crap, my righteous indignation is fading a bit.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Flucod said:


> I was on the fence about the whole e-bike thing but after watching the video, no freakin way. That is a motorcycle and has NO PLACE on MTB trails. Absolutely pathetic, need more speed, how about getting in shape to go faster?!


I'm pretty sure that vid doesn't have any motors in it.
Besides on the dog of course.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

noot said:


> Another thing to remember here. The faster you go, the wider the trail needs to be. Singletrack is out.


It nearly pains me to say this, but trails are getting wider for regular old mountain bikes now that better suspension and brakes are allowing higher speeds. A lot of the dedicated mountain bike trails being built these days are as wide or even wider than dirt bike trails. I don't see this as an e-bike issue.

Also, I've ridden many miles of singletrack dirt bike trails and so it's hard to say that singletrack is out.


----------



## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

Curveball said:


> If it's not used on non-moto trails, then I'm having a tough time getting pissed off.


If it's not used on non-moto trails, it's not a mountain bicycle, and as such, it should be in the "off-topic" section.


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## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

Curveball said:


> It nearly pains me to say this, but trails are getting wider for regular old mountain bikes now that better suspension and brakes are allowing higher speeds. A lot of the dedicated mountain bike trails being built these days are as wide or even wider than dirt bike trails. I don't see this as an e-bike issue.
> 
> Also, I've ridden many miles of singletrack dirt bike trails and so it's hard to say that singletrack is out.


True enough, but that's primarily downhill. Flat and uphill speed is limited by human power (i.e. not a motor).

Moto singletrack surely exists, but likely only because it's not well used. Riding said flat "singletrack" at 80km/h on a moto coming around a corner up on a singlespeed mtber doing 15km/h is a recipe for disaster, and is my exact point.

You need trails wide enough to accommodate both motorcycles and bicycles safely. A trail that's likely to be boring for both, but especially bicycles. As a result, bicyclists won't ride it.

Not to mention the fact that the motos will cause trail erosion, ruts, pits, whoops, etc that are not suitable for mountain bikes at all.

Further, these trails _already exist_ and mountain bikers do not use them. What more proof do you need that it simply won't work?

Thus, it is not a bicycle trail, MTBR is not the place.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

noot said:


> If it's not used on non-moto trails, it's not a mountain bicycle, and as such, it should be in the "off-topic" section.


Well, trail considerations aside, just the fact that it has a motor kind of begs the question of whether or not it belongs in the main MTBR or off-camber.


----------



## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

Curveball said:


> Well, trail considerations aside, just the fact that it has a motor kind of begs the question of whether or not it belongs in the main MTBR or off-camber.


Yes. Though I wouldn't necessarily expect that this thread had gone any differently if it _was_ started in off-camber.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

noot said:


> True enough, but that's primarily downhill. Flat and uphill speed is limited by human power (i.e. not a motor).
> 
> Moto singletrack surely exists, but likely only because it's not well used. Riding said flat "singletrack" at 80km/h on a moto coming around a corner up on a singlespeed mtber doing 15km/h is a recipe for disaster, and is my exact point.
> 
> ...


This is so full of misconceptions that I don't even know where to begin. I'll just say that come out to Washington State during the summer and I can show you around a good many trails where MTBs and motos co-exist without any "disasters" and......are really fun to ride for us.

With that in mind, I could also show you a good number of moto trails that are too rutted, steep, and otherwise nasty for mountain bikes.

Examples of each show that blanket statements aren't very useful.


----------



## Singletrackd (May 3, 2015)

erosive said:


> Moto: stinky, noise carries for miles, heavy, no solar charger, no pedals if gas runs out, POLLUTES THE PLANET
> View attachment 1042430


Wait doesn't most of our electricity come from coal power plant or do you really set out a solar panel for a week to charge your motercycle


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## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

Curveball said:


> This is so full of misconceptions that I don't even know where to begin. I'll just say that come out to Washington State during the summer and I can show you around a good many trails where MTBs and motos co-exist without any "disasters" and......are really fun to ride for us.
> 
> With that in mind, I could also show you a good number of moto trails that are too rutted, steep, and otherwise nasty for mountain bikes.
> 
> Examples of each show that blanket statements aren't very useful.


What misconceptions are you talking about?

Why aren't bikes allowed on sidewalks? How much reaction time does ringing a bell give an oncoming rider if you're going twice or three times as fast?

Lets be clear - downhill trails or sections of trail isn't the issue. Going fast downhill is easy without a motor.

I can't think of a single trail I ride where I'd be OK with a vehicle/bicycle/etc of any kind going twice or more as fast as me. It's not safe.

I can think of a ton of trails where climbing traction is an issue. I don't have the torque to chew up the dirt. This "E-MTB" thing does. After a few runs of chewing up the trail, my trail will be unrideable.

If this guy wants to ride his "E-MTB" on trails, great, he can ride them on trails that exist today. Stay off my trails.


----------



## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

noot said:


> You need trails wide enough to accommodate both motorcycles and bicycles safely. A trail that's likely to be boring for both, but especially bicycles. As a result, bicyclists won't ride it. _already exist_ and mountain bikers do not use them. What more proof do you need that it simply won't work?
> 
> Thus, it is not a bicycle trail, MTBR is not the place.


Downieville is open to both motos and bicycles except for one short section of trail. I've never heard anyone say that Downieville was boring on a bike. I don't own or ride an e-bike but we have a number of super fun runs around here that are on BLM land and open to motos and bikes.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

noot said:


> What misconceptions are you talking about?
> 
> Why aren't bikes allowed on sidewalks? How much reaction time does ringing a bell give an oncoming rider if you're going twice or three times as fast?
> 
> ...


Precisely recreates all the arguments HoH types love to throw out there when arguing to keep MTBs off trails.


----------



## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Curveball said:


> Well, that is what he mentioned in post #12.


No. He mentioned those types of trails are now enjoyable, but he didn't say his riding was limited to those trails.

I really wish the OP would just come out and definitively say he is staying off of the hiking/mountain biking only trails. I have no problems with e-bikes if used in the appropriate areas, although they do seem to be the worst of both worlds..


----------



## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> Precisely recreates all the arguments HoH types love to throw out there when arguing to keep MTBs off trails.


What's HoH? If you mean walkers/hikers, yes I absolutely agree. Now add motors into the mix and it gets worse.


----------



## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

mountainbiker24 said:


> No. He mentioned those types of trails are now enjoyable, but he didn't say his riding was limited to those trails.
> 
> I really wish the OP would just come out and definitively say he is staying off of the hiking/mountain biking only trails. I have no problems with e-bikes if used in the appropriate areas, although they do seem to be the worst of both worlds..


This


----------



## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

I actually think they are pretty damned cool. I'd love to ride one, I imagine something like my Rune would be a blast converted. I rode MX in the 80's and 90's but got out of it cause land to ride was getting scarce here. 


Sadly I cant think of any trails I ride where I could take it. None allow motorized access at all. Some I already have been told to stay off of with my bike cause they are hikers only.


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

please read post #s 60 and 61...thanks 
It should clear up your confusion once and for all...
....that is if you DO read them finally. 

(but if too lazy, I will NOT ride this E-Bike on non-motorized trails EVER...period)
I will however, ride the **** out of dirt roads, gravel roads, train tracks, power lines, and just about anywhere I can find, as well as build my own private trails specifically for this type of toy.

I am strong, not as strong as some, and certainly not the best out there.
I can climb a steep 10 mile track and ride it back down...and not be dying...as many here can do as well or better.
Climbing never hurt my body like 10 runs a day in Whistler...DH is exercise too, and this thing will make rutted dirt roads feel like steep downhill at the speeds I can carry...speeds that a human pedaling would have a hard time keeping cadence through the bumps. 

The joy of this TOY, is being able to feel BIONIC.
"Pedal-Assist" means it compounds your pedal force and makes your legs SUPER POWERED.
Riding an electric bike does not mean "not pedaling"...it means feeling superhuman while you ride your bike normally.
I train hard because I enjoy being healthy and strong...but I'll never have LanceArmstrong legs...too many injuries.
With this type of thing, I can pretend, and it IS fun to pretend.
I don't care at all if someone thinks I'm "cheating"...I'm not in a race, nothing here to be won but a smile on my face...and I enjoy smiling.

I have a throttle too. but pedal assist is more fun in most situations.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

noot said:


> What misconceptions are you talking about?
> 
> Why aren't bikes allowed on sidewalks? How much reaction time does ringing a bell give an oncoming rider if you're going twice or three times as fast?
> 
> ...


Regarding the safety factor, to the best of my knowledge no mountain biker has ever been run over by a moto in my state. I don't know if there's any real factual basis for that fear. If you're uncomfortable with sharing trails with dirt bikes, then it's your prerogative to avoid those trails.

Regarding the OP, I think he stated that he does ride his e-bike on "trails that exist today" and that he stays off non-motorized mountain bike trails (i.e. "my trails").

Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly fond of e-bikes, but I like to keep facts straight.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

mountainbiker24 said:


> No. He mentioned those types of trails are now enjoyable, but he didn't say his riding was limited to those trails.
> 
> I really wish the OP would just come out and definitively say he is staying off of the hiking/mountain biking only trails. I have no problems with e-bikes if used in the appropriate areas, although they do seem to be the worst of both worlds..


I believe he said that in post #85.


----------



## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

erosive said:


> psst...it's not carbon
> 
> So...I believe I learned something new...
> I took a few years off the forums, and missed this whole E-bike hatred meeting.
> ...





erosive said:


> My goals with this bike...to be clear...and stop assumptions....
> 1- It will get me deeper into the forest than my pedals would.
> This is why I liked MTB so much...I can see more wilderness, and get to further places hikers can't, experiencing more of the world I live in, deepening my horizons.
> 
> ...


Fair enough. I missed the two sentences in these paragraphs that state you use them on privately built trails and are not intended to be used on "prime" singletrack, whatever that means. I disagree that e-bikes will ever benefit mountain bikes, and I think that if you are offended by what was said in this thread, you're going to see a lot worse in the future when mountain bikes and e-bikes are lumped together with electric motorcycles.


----------



## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

erosive said:


> as well as build my own private trails specifically for this type of toy.


Where do you plan on doing this? Do you own a big plot of land somewhere for which you have approval to build such trails?

You might be surprised to learn that you cannot "legally" just go into any Forrest you want and start building trails. One must work with the local land management, even parks like Snow Summit and Mammoth have to get approval from the USFS to build new trails.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Curveball said:


> I believe he said that in post #85.


You are correct. I missed that post. If only he had clearly stated that on page 1 instead of page 4...


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

Downhillers, Freeriders and DirtJumpers build "secret" trails all the time.
If I have land and friends land...we can sneak a simple trail into it without alerting the "man"...and having built trails before, I wont destroy the forest.
(I have a family member that is a specialist in those permits, works with the EPA)

This is how Freeride existed for decades.
When Bearclaw gets dropped off by a helicopter to ride a random huge ridge, he uses gas powered vehicles to get to the top...then rides down where there is NO trail at all.
When downhillers shuttle, they use gas powered motors to get back to the top.

With this I could ride anywhere and everywhere that is not specifically off limits to a motor/bicycle hybrid.

If I have integrity in my actions and a good heart...there are no limitations to the places I can find and ride....I will find some gems, and make vids to show them.

I happen to live in an area with countless miles of national forest, full of dirt and gravel roads...and plenty of unsanctioned trails leftover from miners and animals.

If you want to do something bad enough, you research and find out how to make it happen...and I did...and will continue to do so because I like fun alot.

I am a MTBer first, I have all the same concerns as you all.
I will NOT poach anyones single track...I am an adult and will act responsibly.


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

the question I'm dying to ask.... (purely hypothetically) (mtbr24 need not answer)
If I only use my motor to ride to the top of the gravel road...
...then unplug it completely...
...and ride down a real trail on "just a bike"...
...am I still the devil?

In a perfect world...people would be ok with that...because it IS just a bike when unplugged...less weight, smaller tires, and smaller brakes than my 47lb DH bike.
...but I doubt I'd ever try, because someone would give me hell assuming it is powered up, and that would ruin my happy vibe.

I don't want to cause drama...I want to have fun.
I will not harm or ride any non-motor trail with my motor.
Not to pacify you all...but because I believe in it too.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

erosive said:


> I apologize for causing drama, I honestly didn't know this would blow up in my face.


lol^ good stuff!


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

My last post was around 3 years ago...and I just built a new toy to share.
I missed all the meetings where all this E-Bike hate was decided.
Till now, common sense seemed like enough for my actions.

I had NO IDEA this would be the response, this has been a shock for me...
I read a heap of blogs and threads last night after being attacked.
I hear ya...and I agree with your reasons...but I don't think I deserved what I got.
I'm sure it will get worse too...but that's no excuse for shameful conduct.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

^even better!


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

erosive said:


> My last post was around 3 years ago...and I just built a new toy to share.
> I missed all the meetings where all this E-Bike hate was decided.
> Till now, common sense seemed like enough for my actions.
> 
> ...


Man, don't worry about it.

Your build is super cool and you deserve credit for making it work.

Just some people on MTBR think they are the judge and jury when it comes to things they do not understand, or things that are new to them.

I also think people just need to get out more and ride instead of spending so much time on these forums. Some people have 10,000 plus posts. Those people need to get a life.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

Watched that pinkbike video. Didn't look like anything that couldn't be easily ridden on a normal bike. Hope that trail's not why you built that.


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

It's me and my friends, on normal Mountain Bikes, having a lot of fun.
I was lightening the negative mood by posting a beautiful trail...
...I was not encouraging riding that trail on an E-bike.

I love that trail...why don't you like it?


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## Speed Goat (Dec 31, 2013)

What I really want to know is do you ride an E-bike with flats or go clipless?? :???:


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Speed Goat said:


> What I really want to know is do you ride an E-bike with flats or go clipless?? :???:


whatever provides you with the best stance on the pedals


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

erosive said:


> It's me and my friends, on normal Mountain Bikes, having a lot of fun.
> I was lightening the negative mood by posting a beautiful trail...
> ...I was not encouraging riding that trail on an E-bike.
> 
> I love that trail...why don't you like it?


The trail looks fun as hell. Looks like the stuff that I ride.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

zerort said:


> i also think people just need to get *laid* more instead of spending so much time on these forums. Some people have 10,000 plus posts. Those people need to get *some*.


fify


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

mountainbiker24 said:


> No. He mentioned those types of trails are now enjoyable, but he didn't say his riding was limited to those trails.
> 
> I really wish the OP would just come out and definitively say he is staying off of the hiking/mountain biking only trails. I have no problems with e-bikes if used in the appropriate areas, although they do seem to be the worst of both worlds..


Who the fock are you to wish anything of anyone, especially a stranger on the interwebs that owns and enjoys something that is legal and as far as anyone knows, in a legal fashion? Sheet dude, unwind the wet wedgie outta your tight sphincter.

Dude, you're nothing just like any of the rest of us.


----------



## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

mudguy said:


> E-bikers...universally hated by pretentious cyclists, flat billed dirt bikers, granola hikers, and **** depositing equestrians.
> 
> I kind of want one so I can go out at night and wreck some super secret groomed single track someone has spent half their life on. It's fun watching mountain bikers break down and cry.


.

Super secret groomed single track, if that trail is on public lands how can you justify having it be secret? Aren't parks open to everyone: all MTBers? If you build a secret trail in a public park or on forest service land isn't that vandalizing public property? How can this not be wrong or even criminal?


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Ol' Bromy said:


> Watched that pinkbike video. Didn't look like anything that couldn't be easily ridden on a normal bike. Hope that trail's not why you built that.


There's a whole lotta assumption there. I could tell by watching the video he wasn't on his e-bike. 'Sides, how do you know if it's a non-motorized trail that he might be poaching? Assumption?


----------



## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

WoodlandHills said:


> .
> 
> Super secret groomed single track, if that trail is on public lands how can you justify having it be secret? Aren't parks open to everyone: all MTBers? If you build a secret trail in a public park or on forest service land isn't that vandalizing public property? How can this not be wrong or even criminal?


Hells Bells. Are you this obtuse, really?


----------



## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

erosive said:


> Ryguy- it pollutes less than a gas powered moto....which is better for the planet....easy
> ( the whole statement was referring to the previous question about "why not get a moto?" )
> 
> Lets see how many people can prove themselves a FOOL by lecturing me further, after I already stated this NOT for non-motorized trails...jeeze reading comprehension sucks around here...smh
> ...


Being less bad than something else and actually being good are two different things in my book.


----------



## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

ryguy79 said:


> Being less bad than something else and actually being good are two different things in my book.


By your logic, if you stopped breathing and flatulating, would that be *good* in your book? Erase that footprint, you know.


----------



## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Glide the Clyde said:


> Hells Bells. Are you this obtuse, really?


I guess so, it sure sounds like trespassing. How can one justify altering public lands w/o permission, I can see why you keep the damage secret, but how can it be excused? I thought public land belonged to all of us, not just some of us. What about other bikers from other places, is this some locals only thing? I really don't get it......


----------



## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

Glide the Clyde said:


> There's a whole lotta assumption there. I could tell by watching the video he wasn't on his e-bike. 'Sides, how do you know if it's a non-motorized trail that he might be poaching? Assumption?


Yeah, I assumed the dude that posted a video on a thread he started about e-bikes, would be riding one in his video. Did I say I thought he was poaching a trail?


----------



## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Zerort said:


> Just some people on MTBR think they are the judge and jury when it comes to things they do not understand, or things that are new to them.
> 
> I also think people just need to get out more and ride instead of spending so much time on these forums. Some people have 10,000 plus posts. Those people need to get a life.


Some people know what it's like to fight for and lose trail access. If you ride an e-bike on mountain bike trails, you know nothing about that fight or have any respect for those that do.


----------



## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

Glide the Clyde said:


> By your logic, if you stopped breathing and flatulating, would that be *good* in your book? Erase that footprint, you know.


Maybe you could try first. I asked him a reasonable question in a respectable manner.


----------



## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

mountainbiker24 said:


> Some people know what it's like to fight for and lose trail access. If you ride an e-bike on mountain bike trails, you know nothing about that fight or have any respect for those that do.


Man guy you must sure have a lot of spare time on your hands.

Go find some other place to ride if you "lost" your trail access. I'm sure the time in your Prius will do you some good.

Heck, it will get your whiney a$$ off this forum and you can go reflect more about your sad life.


----------



## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

Zerort said:


> Man guy you must sure have a lot of spare time on your hands.
> 
> Go find some other place to ride if you "lost" your trail access. I'm sure the time in your Prius will do you some good.
> 
> Heck, it will get your whiney a$$ off this forum and you can go reflect more about your sad life.


Must be crushing the dirt lot behind the Dairy Queen.


----------



## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Ol' Bromy said:


> Must be crushing the dirt lot behind the Dairy Queen.


Of course he is. He's still on 24's just like his name says.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

Meant you champ. Must be riding **** if you ain't worried you might lose it someday


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

yeah, good one


----------



## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Zerort said:


> Man guy you must sure have a lot of spare time on your hands.
> 
> Go find some other place to ride if you "lost" your trail access. I'm sure the time in your Prius will do you some good.
> 
> Heck, it will get your whiney a$$ off this forum and you can go reflect more about your sad life.


You've posted more over the last few days than I have. I don't have a Prius, not that it matters whatsoever. Not every place has trails or places to just built your own illegal trails. I have not whined in this thread. You're the one doing that. Settle down, stop being a hypocrite, and learn to be part of the bigger picture.


----------



## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Zerort said:


> Yep, pretty much have **** where I ride. So yeah, but thanks for you concerns.
> 
> Now go join your other freedom fighter friends and stand up for what's "right".
> 
> I'm sure all of your voices will be heard. Well actually not because your probably sittin at mommy and daddy's house, err....your mom's trailer playing video games.


Man, you're starting to sound like a little b!tch.

Do you really own Robin Hood Bikes? If you do, you aren't doing a very good job of representing either your company or responsible riding. At least, if it's true, you probably live in England. Then you can't ruin it for us Americans, where we actually do have trail access issues.


----------



## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Glide the Clyde said:


> Who the fock are you to wish anything of anyone, especially a stranger on the interwebs that owns and enjoys something that is legal and as far as anyone knows, in a legal fashion? Sheet dude, unwind the wet wedgie outta your tight sphincter.
> 
> Dude, you're nothing just like any of the rest of us.


Are you stupid? I didn't wish anything on him. I wished something from him. Is what he is doing legal? He never said that clearly, either. You're nothing. I don't give a crap about your opinion.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

noot said:


> What's HoH? If you mean walkers/hikers, yes I absolutely agree. Now add motors into the mix and it gets worse.


Hateful Old Hikers.

They love to make the same points you made when trying to shut bikes out.
MTBers have spent a lot of time and energy working to prove those points don't hold water for the most part. We shouldn't turn and use the same arguments against other user groups; hypocritical IMO.

I'm lucky in that I have thousands of acres of land near home to build and ride on that is mainly privately owned. If it weren't for cost, I'd add an e-bike to the stable both for fun and to help break in trail. I still am convinced they need to be treated as a separate user group from real bicycles by LMs though.


----------



## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Can someone explain with reason and or proof the damage done by Ebikes? 

Honestly, people disdain them because they take what we (non-motorized folks) do and make it easier. Kind of like cheating I suppose, but who really cares about that in the end.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

I think mountain bikers don't want to be lumped in with bikes that have motors on them in the minds of the people that already hate us. If there weren't people that already want bikes off of trails, I'm sure nobody would care.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

So, OP, weight of finished" bike" ? Able to loft the front wheel up and over stuff?


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## Singletrackd (May 3, 2015)

"This one weighs 39lbs, mega torque in every gear, only 7lbs kit."
In the 1st post, you know, the one you didn't read.


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## Big Fil (Nov 5, 2014)

Really more like 50 lbs once you factor in the battery.


----------



## erosive (May 15, 2009)

Yes, about 10-12lbs in the battery backpack...but weight strapped to my core rides better than weight on the bike....kinda like a camel pack with tools. 


My particular E-bike "could" tear up a trail if riden hard...but I won't ride non motorized trails...just to state that again.
Mine has 1700-4000 watts, 250poundFt of torque, and a throttle to dump all that power.
My bike IS the kind you should fear in the hands of an irresponsible user....
...but irresponsible riders can exist on regular MTBs too, skidders and such. 

However...most of the new "Pedelec" bikes from the major brands would be very unlikely to do any damage due to their low power output.
They are all "pedal assist" and basically just double your legs strength.
They don't spin the tire or cause wheelies easily...they just make things a bit easier.
You can test ride the new Specialized, Trek, Felt, Etc with Bosch style motors.
They are quite fun, and not overpowered...around 250-350 watts.

I know in "moto mode" it's not a MTB...but when I unplug it, it is "just a bike"...
...and the reason I built it, is so I can ride just like my trail bike, and build handling skills.
Many top downhillers train by riding Motocross...but the differences in weight make the skills translation less optimal.
I can get cornering, jumping, and body english down to a science because the E-bike lets me cover more ground and apply all my energy into those moves...instead of half my effort going into pedaling.
If this goes as planned, when I hit the parks next summer, I'll be in top form on my normal downhill bike....or I'll just have a heap of fun trying.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> Hateful Old Hikers.
> 
> They love to make the same points you made when trying to shut bikes out.
> MTBers have spent a lot of time and energy working to prove those points don't hold water for the most part. We shouldn't turn and use the same arguments against other user groups; hypocritical IMO.
> ...





Crankout said:


> Can someone explain with reason and or proof the damage done by Ebikes?
> 
> Honestly, people disdain them because they take what we (non-motorized folks) do and make it easier. Kind of like cheating I suppose, but who really cares about that in the end.





Ol' Bromy said:


> I think mountain bikers don't want to be lumped in with bikes that have motors on them in the minds of the people that already hate us. If there weren't people that already want bikes off of trails, I'm sure nobody would care.


Ol' Bromy hits the nail right on the head. If the HOH's of the world did not have such big financial backing an apparent time to do everything possible to keep MTB's off the existing trails, the regular MTBer's would not care about sharing the trails with e-Bikes.
I have ridden an e-Bike once, it was weird, I prefer to pedal.

The perception that people will have is that because they have a motor, they can and will do more damage to the trails than regular bikes, and that perception is what scares most of us MTBer's who have been part of the fight over the years to get access to existing trails and permission to build new trails.

To the OP, I am glad you enjoyed your build and have passion about it, but don't expect the majority of users on this site who have seen trails taken away from them over and over again to be welcoming to the idea of more trail loss due to the publics perception of e-Bikes.

Also, to everyone participating in this thread: STOP THE PERSONAL ATTACKS. No Name calling, no foul langue, don't skirt the Language filters. All personal attacks, language, etc will be deleted.


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

Thank you, I understand my awkward position and the reactions it causes, I'l own it.
I will not be part of the problem. I don't blame anyone for their concerns.

I had hoped to start a discussion on how, if we as MTB embrace the idea of E-bikes...they may end up being people who will help our MTB causes...we have very few numbers to rally votes and battle anti-bike organizations.

More bike friendly voters....means more trails built and more trail access.
(they just need to be taught WHERE to ride their E-bikes)

Less cars polluting, which is better for the environment. 
(I i know, e-bikes have a carbon footprint too, just less than ICE)

More healthy people...Unhealthy folks who may get into shape enough to pedal a trail.
(more riders, means more people to join clubs and help with maintenance)

More money in the bike industry and shops.
(bike shops are hurting with the internet...E-bikers need service, keeps shops paid.)

An "E-bike Park" would be available to all types of bikes, and could be built easily on any slope....doesnt have to be a mountain at all, just some flowy good runs.
(the E-Bikers would have a "lift" to the top, whereas regular riders would pedal.)


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

Hypothetically speaking...just for jokes sake... 

If I hook a generator up to a trainer at home...
...and ride a heap of miles at home to charge my batteries...
...then I use the electricity my legs generated out in the wilderness on my E-bike...


...am I still a "cheater"? 

...am I not a "human powered vehicle"?


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Ol' Bromy said:


> I think mountain bikers don't want to be lumped in with bikes that have motors on them in the minds of the people that already hate us. If there weren't people that already want bikes off of trails, I'm sure nobody would care.


This is my big picture concern about e-bikes. I think they may greatly complicate efforts to regain access to wilderness areas. And maintaining access to proposed wilderness areas.

In the specific case of the OP, I think he's made a credible case for his use of one and I can't find much to object to.


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## mudguy (Jan 16, 2015)

Curveball said:


> This is my big picture concern about e-bikes. I think they may greatly complicate efforts to regain access to wilderness areas. And maintaining access to proposed wilderness areas.


If mountain bikers would unite with the 4x4, dirt bike, ATV, snowmobile, equestrian, hunting, and fishing access organizations, we might all be able to get along.

Unfortunately, many mountain bikers have a bad habit of looking down upon anyone who they feel hasn't "earned" the right to be on the trails.

In the Tahoe area, we are frequently accosted by them - on trails that were originally created by/for motorcycles - flailing their hands like they are hurt only to yell something like "this is a mountain bike only trail!!!"

They are human powered elitists, and I tell them look, USFS marks these trails as motorized and I rode these trails before you started digging up all the rocks and turning it into groomer paradise, so move on past and stop yelling at me.

On one occasion a mountain biker tried to push one of our bikes over.

On another occasion we were told to leave after we had just gone out on dirt bikes to rebuild an illegal MTB trail after some eco-nut went out and tore out all the bridges and covered the trail with branches and rocks. Seriously? We're out here rebuilding the trail and you want us to leave?

Their is some serious animosity among mountain bikers and it hurts us all. Stop thinking about only YOUR access, and think about EVERYONES access in a non-judgmental way. When you break your femur 10 miles back in the woods who do you think is going to be getting you out???


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

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Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

mudguy said:


> In the Tahoe area, we are frequently accosted by them - on trails that were originally created by/for motorcycles - flailing their hands like they are hurt only to yell something like "this is a mountain bike only trail!!!"
> 
> They are human powered elitists, and I tell them look, USFS marks these trails as motorized and I rode these trails before you started digging up all the rocks and turning it into groomer paradise, so move on past and stop yelling at me.
> 
> On one occasion a mountain biker tried to push one of our bikes over.


So, you're saying that mountain bikers were getting on your case for riding dirt bikes on designated motorized trails?


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Just stay out of MTB trails ... have fun on motor cross ones!


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## mudguy (Jan 16, 2015)

Curveball said:


> So, you're saying that mountain bikers were getting on your case for riding dirt bikes on designated motorized trails?


Yes, it is a common occurrence, but especially on one particular legal loop we ride. I suspect many of them come up the illegal trails which joins the legal loop, and have no idea they have ended up on a legal trail.

These are pretentious Bay Area MTB tourists giving us attitude, not locals.

These days we have some fun play areas that are well out of reach of most of these tourists.

Most of the legal riding is double track. A lot of the single track is not designated by USFS, and therefore illegal for MTB or motorcycle. If we see single track we often have no idea if it is legal or illegal or who "owns" it. If it's real narrow, or we start seeing evidence of MTB grooming we typically leave it alone.

Unless you get it designated and put up signs, you can't really call it an MTB trail. All you can do is hope that motorized guys respect your grooming efforts. Some do, some don't. Being a jerk and alienating them is counterproductive.


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## blue_biker (Sep 7, 2008)

erosive said:


> My particular E-bike "could" tear up a trail if riden hard...but I won't ride non motorized trails...just to state that again.
> Mine has 1700-4000 watts, 250poundFt of torque,


Yea, it doesn't have 250 lbs-ft torque. Especially from a motor that size and battery small enough to wear.

To put in perspective, a Chevy Volt has an over 400lbs battery and makes 295 lbs-ft, not to mention the weight of the motors.

Not trying to start an argument, I'm sure it's powerful, but 250lbs-ft could not be controlled on a bicycle


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Klurejr said:


> Ol' Bromy hits the nail right on the head. If the HOH's of the world did not have such big financial backing an apparent time to do everything possible to keep MTB's off the existing trails, the regular MTBer's would not care about sharing the trails with e-Bikes.
> I have ridden an e-Bike once, it was weird, I prefer to pedal.
> 
> The perception that people will have is that because they have a motor, they can and will do more damage to the trails than regular bikes, and that perception is what scares most of us MTBer's who have been part of the fight over the years to get access to existing trails and permission to build new trails.
> ...


How about moving this thread where it belongs? It would fit nicely in the Off Camber forum.


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

blue_biker said:


> Yea, it doesn't have 250 lbs-ft torque. Especially from a motor that size and battery small enough to wear.
> 
> To put in perspective, a Chevy Volt has an over 400lbs battery and makes 295 lbs-ft, not to mention the weight of the motors.
> 
> Not trying to start an argument, I'm sure it's powerful, but 250lbs-ft could not be controlled on a bicycle


So...Torque numbers...are dependent on gearing, ya know...

"In practice, A cyclist, the person who rides the bicycle, provides the input power by turning pedals, thereby cranking the front sprocket (commonly referred to as chainring). The input power provided by the cyclist is equal to the product of cadence (i.e. the number of pedal revolutions per minute) and the torque on spindle of the bicycle's crankset. The bicycle's drivetrain transmits the input power to the road wheel, which in turn conveys the received power to the road as the output power of the bicycle. Depending on the gear ratio of the bicycle, a (torque, rpm)input pair is converted to a (torque, rpm)output pair. By using a larger rear gear, or by switching to a lower gear in multi-speed bicycles, angular speed of the road wheels is decreased while the torque is increased, product of which (i.e. power) does not change." (wiki)

Lower the gear, higher the torque in other words.
A bicycle weighs much less than a car...and all that extra power in the car is for DISTANCE and overcoming the cars WEIGHT.

Specs for motor...Top end Drone/RC Heli motor...10,000RPM!
This is one of the highest powered model airplane motor,for nearly FULL SIZED PLANES/HELIs....insanely efficient, massive torque output at 10,000RPM...

Power: 1750W continuous, 4000W peak
Overall ratio: 70:1
Motor: Astro Flight 3210
Electronics: Castle Creations HV80 combined with Cycle Analyst V3
Available motor RPM: 10,000
Max pedal cadence: 140 rpm
Max output torque: 200ft-lbs (60 amps)
Weight: 7lbs, 11oz (w/ electronics)
Battery Requirements: 50V max (12S LiPo or 14s Li-ion recommended)

Oops, my bad...200lbFT, not 250...hehe


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

That's 10,000 RPM...with a gearbox that steps it down 70:1...outputting 1428 RPM.
Then the 18t freewheel on the motor and the crank's 32t inner ring decrease RPM more.
By the time the power reaches the cranks...it's only a max 140 cadence.
This way I can always pedal WITH the power, at a "granny spin" cadence at worst.

The cranks freewheel, the hub freewheels,and the motor freewheels.
Because of that, the cranks can pedal without engaging the motor. (no cogging)
Also...while the motor is spinning, the cranks don't spin, only the chainrings. (trials style)
Because of that, my legs don't get blended by the pedals like a fixie at speed.

Nifty stuff....I love bicycles, and playing around with them is the best fun to me.
For years, my bike maintenance has been my meditation, my happy place.
No, the trails are not my "happy place"...when I am riding, I am "in the now" more than anywhere else....I can't think about problems or drama when I'm going fast, all that exists is the next 20ft of trail and instinctual reactions.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

erosive said:


> I'm an die-hard MTB rider, since the mid 80s, and I love pedaling.
> I also ride moto, and love the feeling of thrust and speed.
> Then, I tried an E-bike, and it made me GRIN like never before.
> These things are so fun, so I built myself one, and I love it!
> ...


Looks put together very nicely!
How does it do in rain and water? How well sealed are the electrics?
Did I understand that it is either pedal-assist or throttle? Does the drive sprocket freewheel so you can coast under throttle, or can the motor pull the pedals out from under you?

Thanks,
-F

Oops... just missed this:


erosive said:


> That's 10,000 RPM...with a gearbox that steps it down 70:1...outputting 1428 RPM.
> Then the 18t freewheel on the motor and the crank's 32t inner ring decrease RPM more.
> By the time the power reaches the cranks...it's only a max 140 cadence.
> This way I can always pedal WITH the power, at a "granny spin" cadence at worst.
> ...


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## erosive (May 15, 2009)

Wet use...
All the connections and wires are sealed relatively well, with shrink tubing encasement throughout the system and fiberglass tubing protecting the exposed wires.
The motor is nicely sealed, I doubt anything will get in there.

I've rode it in pouring rain and muck without it cutting out on me.
It IS a kilowatt of power in my backpack though...kinda scary to be wet...hehe


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