# Why isn't there an East Coast bike culture?



## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

I have to admit how jealous I am of seeing people in the Central and Western States. On the East Coast (particularly NE), we don't have much of a bike culture from what we see over there. I would say we have some scattered folks, but biking is still a cult thing for the most part. 

Manufacturers and parts suppliers have forgotten about this region, for the most part. Demos are always elsewhere, shows are elsewhere, respect from motorists is next to nothing, parks commissions don't care.

I think the Eastern Seaboard, with specificity to the NE region is prime territory for expansion of mtb and manufacturer demos, but no one seems to care about biking here.


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> I have to admit how jealous I am of seeing people in the Central and Western States. On the East Coast (particularly NE), we don't have much of a bike culture from what we see over there. I would say we have some scattered folks, but biking is still a cult thing for the most part.
> 
> Manufacturers and parts suppliers have forgotten about this region, for the most part. Demos are always elsewhere, shows are elsewhere, respect from motorists is next to nothing, parks commissions don't care.
> 
> I think the Eastern Seaboard, with specificity to the NE region is prime territory for expansion of mtb and manufacturer demos, but no one seems to care about biking here.


Dirt Rag is a fine example of Mountain Biking from an East Coast perspective.


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## tiSS'er (Jan 6, 2004)

I would guess some of it might be related to the riding season length. Coming from central NY, I know the riding season is short. Even in the past few years, with all of the rain it is even shorter. 

Now that I live in Phoenix, we have a year round riding season. This gives the manufacturers a greater window of opportunity to work with. Especially in the winter months when business might be slower than usual. 

Just a few months (I think February) ago DT personally was here doing some High-Line demos. We are easily accessible from Cali and that must help too.

I have noticed things are very different out west. There are so many bike shops, all which do very well, a much larger biking community with clubs of all types, and a growing biking population. We definatley get a lot of exposure to manufacturers. Yeti did 2 or 3 demo Days at South Mountain in a period of 3 months. Trek/Gary Fisher made a trip out, as did Cannondale. All in the winter months.

So I don't know the real answer, maybe it is location, weather, or some other forces which I have no clue. 

It's too bad, the East Coast offers some sweet riding, I know I miss it for sure.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Drewdane said:


> Dirt Rag is a fine example of Mountain Biking from an East Coast perspective.


And much of what we read there is still based in the other part of the country. The NE based stuff isn't really indicative of what it's really like here. The biking communities don't "touch one another", for the most part. Seeing the NE builders might as well be on the other side of the country as there's little to no connection with the remote groups of bikers here.

We also have fewer bike shops and most of them are total ripoff artists. I support my LBS, but that's because I found a small, honest shop. I really envy others when I hear in Ca or Co they find an LBS that basically prices as mail order or does mail order. We have many shops here that could be pioneers and start mail order in addition to walk in sales and pump up NE biking by having the stuff people would want in stock.


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## JUNGLEKID5 (May 1, 2006)

ya ne needs help big time and there needs to be more organisation for shore


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## Hardtail Guy (Apr 29, 2005)

Where in NE are you? Here in SE CT, I think a lot of shops don't really "need" to worry about pricing, because there are enough people who will just go buy a bike as a fashion accessory, and not worry about the fact that they could save 10% ordering from the 'net. I have no problem with that, and neither should you, it helps the shops out.

Personally, the main problem I have with the riding around here is that the trails tend to be not as long/big, and are pretty far away from one another. There's really only one "good" place to ride near me, Bluff Point, and it's only about 70 acres. To ride elsewhere, you are talking about a 45+ minute car ride. It's probably different up in VT/NH, but even when I lived in Maine there weren't a ton of places to ride. This part of the country is just generally so developed that there are few wide-open tracts of land left, unlike the west where you have hundreds of acres or more just for one park, and there are multiple parks to chose from. Maybe this is an exaggeration, but that's how it seems to this east-coaster.

Also, I'm sure weather and terrain (technical/rocky) have something to do with discouraging the casual riders.


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## StageHand (Dec 31, 2003)

Maybe the question is why aren't you involved? (Maybe you are, I don't know) Most East Coast bike culture is heavily focused on the local level. It will never be based on manufacturer presence, so everything starts local. In the DC area, and in New England, and I'm sure other places, there are large local groups (MORE, NEMBA) that have made huge strides in access, funding, involvement and education. There are a couple of events, too. DirtRag's punk bike enduro, East Coast SS championships in State College. Look around, get involved, and don't complain.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

I am involved and it's still small groups, thanks.


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## acrylucs (Feb 18, 2006)

Because the East is more dense and our mountains are smaller. No Moabs out here. No Whistlers either. But our trails still rock, and there's plenty to go round. for freeriding there's East Side Freeride which are pretty big.


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

"Grass roots" efforts are the answer to the issue you have raised. I've often wondered why there isn't more mtbin' on the tube. Not bmx, Jeeps King of th' mtn. series, just mtbin' in th' woods, racin' or not. XC, urban/woods freeride or dh would be cool. Companies will use bikes to sell everything but bikes, cars, vacations, excersize macines, weight lose machines. Anyone seen the full suspen. bikes riding down the stairs in th' Biltmore house commercials? Maybe thats only here in NC. Anyways, the grass roots efforts ran by those who are in it for th' love & want to see people ride, "no matter what kind of riding it is" will make or break this sport. There will always be th' core group. Those who are riding in rain, snow, dark, 90+ heat, hurt, broken bike parts, willing to work local bike festivals for free, spending bill money to fix a bike, are the grass roots guys/gals that populate mtbr, ride monkey, pink bike, just to name a few, ...etc., we are a culture here on the east coast, we're just not as hi-profile. Some folks like it like that. I'd like to see more folks riding, less walkin' & drivin' cages. Bike paths need to be developed by city gov's so all aspects of life are accessable, malls, grocery stores, places to pay bills, parks, restuarants. gettin' to & from is dangerous on what we have now. 

Horse advocacy groups, Sierra club & the like will shut th' woods down to "any mechanized" transportation. We better get more of a "presence in meetings" if we want a say in "our future".

Sorry for ramblin'...


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## Guyechka (Jul 19, 2005)

The short answer: Because all it does is rain, and we are busy inside playing checkers.

The serious answer: Because it is all very very local. I have about five areas within twenty minutes of my house, and they are the only places I ride. I see the same people riding these places every time I'm out. To me, Lynn Woods is a far away place, even though it is roughly four hours away. The NE states live their separate biking lives, and it seems that each state has its own unique culture. But what pisses me off a little is that we rely so heavily on NEMBA instead of local organizations. Read the list of NEMBA trail work in Singletracks and see just how much is done in Massachussetts as opposed to Connecticut. Big difference. Is it because all of us in CT are apathetic? I don't know. It just seems like the focus of NEMBA is MA. Maybe I'm just being surly because of all the bad weather.


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## dankilling (Feb 24, 2004)

I can see two parts of this....
1- Manufacturer support....yep, pretty much have to agree with you there, but then again, we dont have as many large events to draw them in (which we would need to organize)
2- Overall culture? I would have to say we have it a bit different in the ABE area of E. PA. With Rodale (Bicycling magazine) and the LV Velodrome here, we have good local exposure to the community through road biking, so with that, we can also enjoy a good amount of local MTB riding opportunities because local groups/govenrments/etc can see the bike culture almost every day on the roads, so in their mind, it translates directly to MTB as well. Its not totally open door (thanks PA Game Commission....I am sure Bambi wont procreate if I MTB on game lands) but for the most part it is accepted as a valuable activity. 

My company even went as far as purchasing 24 bike lockers for those of us who commute to work...how cool is that?

Anyways, like others have said- if you build it, they will come, but we just dont seem to come together the way they do in the 'wide open spaces' states.....


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## Christian A (Jun 6, 2006)

Come to WV, there is mountain bike culture out the wazoo...


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## Nathan Cloud (Jul 18, 2005)

Guyechka said:


> The short answer: Because all it does is rain, and we are busy inside playing checkers.


You ain't kidding 



Guyechka said:


> But what pisses me off a little is that we rely so heavily on NEMBA instead of local organizations. Read the list of NEMBA trail work in Singletracks and see just how much is done in Massachussetts as opposed to Connecticut. Big difference. Is it because all of us in CT are apathetic? I don't know. It just seems like the focus of NEMBA is MA. Maybe I'm just being surly because of all the bad weather.


I am probably missing something here and I am often uninformed, but my understanding (well apart from Vietnam) is that is each Nemba Chapter is what gets out there and does the TM and such. But, up until this year, CT Nemba did seem to be pretty quiet - while the MA chapters have always been very active. I have been getting involved with CT Nemba this year and I think they are certainly making an effort to up the ante!

I dunno though, just thinking out loud.


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

Guyechka said:


> .... Read the list of NEMBA trail work in Singletracks and see just how much is done in Massachussetts as opposed to Connecticut. Big difference. Is it because all of us in CT are apathetic? I don't know. It just seems like the focus of NEMBA is MA...


The focus of NEMBA comes from the individual chapters, not from the MA "headquarters". The chapters in NH are heavily involved and have done some great trail projects. I think the CT chapter is set up differently (i.e. one statewide chapter instead of multiple smaller ones) so the maintenance aspect is organized differently.

Also, there may be things going on that don't get reported (and consequently published), so what you read may not be the whole story.

East Coast culture? It depends where you live. New England is widely varied and the mountain bike culture varies significantly even within each state.


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## RetroG (Jan 16, 2004)

Maybe because all of the adventurous people head West, leaving behind the dull, drab East Coast society to wither away in our depressing, cold, rainy crime ridden big cities. 

Head down the Appalachians thru WV, VA and NC. Get "cultured".


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## MTB1986 (Aug 13, 2005)

I think like it's been said before, that the MTB culture here in NE is very spread out. Everyone keeps to themselves. We need to get all the MTB'ers together in NE and make our pressence known. Hikers, horse riders etc. have the upper hand big time on who gets to use the trails in NE, somthing needs to be done because all trails in NE will be shut out to MTB'ers unless we do somthing.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

*CT perspective...*



Guyechka said:


> To me, Lynn Woods is a far away place, even though it is roughly four hours away. ...... Read the list of NEMBA trail work in Singletracks and see just how much is done in Massachussetts as opposed to Connecticut. ...Is it because all of us in CT are apathetic?


Lynn is maybe 2 hours away, if you live close to Case. You really should go there, its an amazing place to ride (see below).

NEMBA trail work gets done where people set up trail work. If you get involved, and get the CT trail maintenance coordinator involved, you can have a trail day just about anywhere.

For whatever reason we are apathetic in CT. I was up at Batchelor St two weeks ago - wow do they do a lot of maintenance on those trails! We're (a)pathetic...

I think the reason there isn't a "community" is because NE is comprised of a lot of small (relatively speaking) states. Each has its own identity and rarely do folks cross state lines. You know how many times I've offered to host a ride at a place that's within 10 miles of the MA border for MA folks? Maybe 10? You know how many people from MA have shown up for those rides? None. I'm not complaining, just saying...

All that being said, I really freaking enjoy riding out here. While we don't get the vistas, I've never ridden terrain as technical as what I ride on a daily basis here in CT. Yeah you're somewhat limited on distance, but 15 miles of technical riding is like 30 miles of smooth trails. Despite the relatively small areas, most of the places I ride you can put together 20-30 milers with a little imagination. Within an hour of my house I can think of a dozen or so rides, all excellent. I really don't think an hour is a long distance to travel to get to a ride.

I've done some travelling for rides in NE and the bikers I've met have been very warm and have enjoyed showing me their "goods" - Even Radair has his good days! 

John


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

MTB1986 said:


> I think like it's been said before, that the MTB culture here in NE is very spread out. Everyone keeps to themselves. We need to get all the MTB'ers together in NE and make our pressence known. Hikers, horse riders etc. have the upper hand big time on who gets to use the trails in NE, somthing needs to be done because all trails in NE will be shut out to MTB'ers unless we do somthing.


And the answer is: http://www.nemba.org/shopzone/page4.html - currently nearly 4,000 strong.


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

Because the West Side is the Best Side.... boyyyyyy!!!

<img src=https://www.tribute.ca/tribute_objects/images/movies/malibus_most_wanted/malibusmostwanted1.jpg>


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## Dairy_dude (Nov 2, 2004)

I think east coast has more road cyclists, why that is I don't know but there are far more road bikes at my local shops than mtb's.

East coaster's must like skinny tires.


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## Guyechka (Jul 19, 2005)

radair said:


> Also, there may be things going on that don't get reported (and consequently published), so what you read may not be the whole story.


Here you've hit the nail on the head.

Because I was so disgusted with the CT NEMBA lack of volunteers, I just went ahead and did my own thing. Hell, the Manchester parks commisioner told me he went ahead and built a bridge without telling anyone. In fact, he encouraged me to do "smart" trailwork without letting anyone know about it. What about the stunt trails at Case? I was under the impression that they were at best semi-legal, until I spotted the trail numbers leading off of them.

So we have all these little cliques of five riders from the same neighborhood joining up once in awhile to do something. But my point was that cliques of five do not constitute a bike culture. It's not a bad thing for someone to go out on their own and put in a day's work. I just wish we had better organization.


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## Guyechka (Jul 19, 2005)

Jisch said:


> Lynn is maybe 2 hours away, if you live close to Case. You really should go there, its an amazing place to ride (see below).
> 
> NEMBA trail work gets done where people set up trail work. If you get involved, and get the CT trail maintenance coordinator involved, you can have a trail day just about anywhere. John


Why is it that I think Boston is a long way away? I know better, but I always overestimate the distance.ut:

I was involved, John, I was involved! I got hold of Dave Singleton last year and invited him out. He sent the secretary, and we went on a tour of the bad spots within thirty minutes of Line St. Then Dave organized a trailwork day. I went out to the local hardware store and bought new gloves, because I knew I would need them. How many people showed up? None! Dave showed up, but he had just gone OTB the day before and had stitches in his back. So he wasn't doing any hard work. That was the end of my project.:sad:


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Guyechka said:


> So we have all these little cliques of five riders from the same neighborhood joining up once in awhile to do something. But my point was that cliques of five do not constitute a bike culture.


Exactly. Here in the Boston area you have many small circles of bikers that ride together on a regular basis, but no large community.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

I go to upstate NY to ride. Those guys know how to make do with what they have and thensome and are very friendly and accomodating to strangers. Sadly, this isn't the case all over the NY metro area. The other thing is this is still a small collective. There are still just a few shops in the area and fewer the further north one goes.

I've even contacted a couple of manufacturers and they either do not respond when asked about being better respresented in what could be prime mtb expansion territory, or they voice not have ANY interest in coming out here at all.


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## Trail_Mynx (Mar 6, 2006)

Guyechka said:


> The short answer: Because all it does is rain, and we are busy inside playing checkers.
> 
> The serious answer: Because it is all very very local. I have about five areas within twenty minutes of my house, and they are the only places I ride. I see the same people riding these places every time I'm out. To me, Lynn Woods is a far away place, even though it is roughly four hours away. The NE states live their separate biking lives, and it seems that each state has its own unique culture. But what pisses me off a little is that we rely so heavily on NEMBA instead of local organizations. Read the list of NEMBA trail work in Singletracks and see just how much is done in Massachussetts as opposed to Connecticut. Big difference. Is it because all of us in CT are apathetic? I don't know. It just seems like the focus of NEMBA is MA. Maybe I'm just being surly because of all the bad weather.


I've just started up in this sport and I've ridden and heard about TONS of places to ride...there are a lot of organizations and local groups and such...you just have to know where to look. There is Kingdom Trails in VT ::the heavens open, sun shines down and you hear the angels singing:: go on the different state park sites. RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH my friend...the internet is NOT just for porn (for all of those who play WOW or have seen the hilarious lil skit - ) Anyway...ya I'm going nuts over here...the first night back from KTA, went on a group ride and got injured..still sitting it out :madman: So, depends on where you are I guess.


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## thebigred67 (Mar 29, 2005)

I have done weekly rides that were suppost to have 10-12 people in them, Alone. You have to show up over and over even if one else does. Besides you get to ride once a week! That's the point.


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## Guyechka (Jul 19, 2005)

Trail_Mynx said:


> ...the internet is NOT just for porn


237,036,002,312 porn sites

12 NE bike sites


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## thebigred67 (Mar 29, 2005)

Yah, so stop diddlin' and go ride!


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## Bikehigh (Jan 14, 2004)

Who gives a crap. We make our own culture. Baltimore has a culture. Philly has a culture. NYC has a culture ...... may not be MTB exactly. The New Jersey Turnpike has a culture even. Who gives a crap about culture, it's just a friggin' bike!


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## nordeaster (May 4, 2006)

> I have to admit how jealous I am of seeing people in the Central and Western States. On the East Coast (particularly NE), we don't have much of a bike culture from what we see over there.


Especially in regards to the comments about corporate sponsorship, right now the big thing is hucking, jumping, being "extreme." That's definitely more of a West Coast thing, esp. due to to the connection to BC/NorthShore. There's a little here, but generally, you need big tracks of land where land managers don't care if you sacrifice a bit of wilderness to build a bunch of "trail features." Diesel is certainly doing a lot in this area, though...

On the East Coast we have really developed land conservation groups, and that's really important because since it's been settled for so much longer, have much denser population (ppl/sq.mile)... and due to limited space, there's little space that any conservationist would conceed for trail features. I'm sure there's a negative stereotype, as well, of all mtb'ers with the image of us all being jumpers. Plus, also geographically, I suppose it's tougher to sell a lot of straight-DHer bikes when there aren't that many one-way DH opportunities for most of us.

Since the area (circumstances) is thus less receptive to the current trends, the money is going to go elsewhere. The attention is going to go elsewhere. But that doesn't mean there isn't plenty of riding here, and good people doing it. And some great companies, like IF, Seven, Ted Wojcik, Cannondale...

Personally, I don't care for jumping (probably because I can barely bunny hop), so I'm not as bothered, and ride in MA, so I see a very active state with all the NEMBA chapters doing x,y and z. But more is better. And I hope to be part of that.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

*Well, that stinks...*



Guyechka said:


> How many people showed up? None!


Well I think that kind of sums it up. There's a groundswell of folks over at Bikerag who were looking to put some trail maintenance together for Case. I hope that goes through and I'll be there (pending kid's schedules, unfortunately!). Its a very resilient system, but it surely needs some work.

John


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## PAmtbiker (Feb 2, 2005)

*East Coast culture is just different*

I spent 2 weeks in Moab this year. The culture and the riding were great. It is the classic example of MTB culture. Back in PA, the culture is still there... it's just different. We just do things a little more discretely. We meet and hang out... and ride about three days a week. I ride more cause i'm just a student. But whenever we are together riding it's just like Moab..I really have no preference as to which culture I would rather be a part of... I like both. As long as I'm riding


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

Public Land.

Most of the western states have huge tracts of Forest Service and BLM land open to mountain bikes, and more land is publicly owned than privately owned.


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## TheDude (Feb 18, 2004)

You made this post because you were bored. The rain makes people say stupid things. In fact......the rain forced me to make a potato gun last week. You better reprezent the right coast. The riding makes you strong here, especially when it's -10, pitch black and you can't tell if the snowmobile trail is trying to eat you.



> I go to upstate NY to ride. Those guys know how to make do with what they have and thensome and are very friendly and accomodating to strangers.


And we have alot man! 5 1500+ acres of state forests.



> we don't have much of a bike culture from what we see over there. I would say we have some scattered folks, but biking is still a cult thing for the most part.


you can't spell culture without cult 

Don't make come down there P.A.!


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## NoTreadOnMe (Feb 4, 2006)

hikerdave said:


> Public Land.
> 
> Most of the western states have huge tracts of Forest Service and BLM land open to mountain bikes, and more land is publicly owned than privately owned.


This is key.
Down in NC where there are huge Natl. forests, there is tons of riding culture.


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## Blendthree (Feb 10, 2006)

Count Mountain Bike Tales digital magazine (East Coast- Buffalo, NY) in on any such efforts of East Coast culture unification.
http://www.mountainbiketales.com


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## CTNEMBA (Jun 13, 2006)

MTB1986 said:


> I think like it's been said before, that the MTB culture here in NE is very spread out. Everyone keeps to themselves. We need to get all the MTB'ers together in NE and make our pressence known. Hikers, horse riders etc. have the upper hand big time on who gets to use the trails in NE, somthing needs to be done because all trails in NE will be shut out to MTB'ers unless we do somthing.


We are making great strides on this in CT, fer sure. CTNEMBA has been actively pursuing coalitions with hikers and horseys for multi-use trails throughout the state. In fact, we are working on three projects right now, Cockaponset (15 mile Epic Trail), Upper Paugussett SF (1000 ac tract in Northern Newtown), Nepaug, and Tarrywhile (Danbury).

There is an East Coast culture but its more Grass Roots and you have to get involved to make anything happen. MTB'ers in CT are making great strides and in fact are recently becoming the go-to organization from a DEP perspective largely because CTNEMBA and CT MTB'ers have recently been very vocal in supporting ATV legistlation as well as our Trail Maintenance activities, something you don't see coming from any of the other organized trail user-groups (there are some exceptions).

There is a culture but I think its more subdued due to economics. The Northeast has quite a bit of affluence and as someone stated earlier, there are many dudes who pick up expensive bikes only to ride them on the roads, dirt roads or fire roads if they are really daring. Coupled with the fact that are many roadies here, too, because that's an "in" thing in this land. The real MTB'ers are out there in their own little cliques and circles of riders.

The other thing that is key is getting your efforts recognized by local media and the community. If you are doing your own TM, that's nice for that particular trail, but if you were affliated with a group and talked up your efforts in the local paper, you might get others interested in riding and helping with the trails.


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## dwnhlldav (Feb 2, 2006)

Bikehigh said:


> Who gives a crap. We make our own culture. Baltimore has a culture. Philly has a culture. NYC has a culture ...... may not be MTB exactly. The New Jersey Turnpike has a culture even. Who gives a crap about culture, it's just a friggin' bike!


So would our culture be that of the salami sandwhich?

And to the original post, if you have ever lived in the midwest then you will know that NE drivers are downright friendly to cyclists compared to the farm boys/mamas in their giant trucks.

I never felt there was a lack of culture here, I guess it just depends on what you are lucking for.


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## aixelsyd (Apr 21, 2005)

When Highlands opens Sinister will do some demo days there. Most shops that sell Specialized have demo bikes. We have Pedros fest and a growing amount of lift serviced riding. I think NE is not a mountain bike destination because of the land issues listed above but to say we don't have a mountain bike culture or that its not the same or as big as out west is unfair. I think our culture is more underground because of the land issue. I know a ton of great trails within an hour of where I live most of it is bike friendly but I'm not saying where because if more people rode it we may end up loosing that access. Its like that article in BIKE a little while back about the popularity of our sport and not being mainstream. I don't want it to be like snowboarding and get overcommercialized, to bad its already happening.... Time to drink my coolaid(powerbar Endurance mix) and wait for the mothership(my Titan) to take me to riding Nirvana (whichever Secret) trail I choose.

Later


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## MDEnvEngr (Mar 11, 2004)

*It's just the NE way...*

New Englanders are notorious for their, "you mind your business and I'll mind mine...you nevermind my business," mentality. The cranky old New Englander prides himself on doing everything by himself, in his own way. To a certain extent we are all like that here. And that extends to "MTB Culture". I spend close to 100 hours a year on trail maintenance...by myself, or perhaps with a couple of friends. Although a member of NEMBA, I don't show up at trail maintenance days probably because my priorities put family at the top.

How many times here at home have you had a conversation or even exchanges pleasantries with the grocery cashier? Ever? Go out to CO, UT, CA and everybody talks to you. It's just unnatural, that speaking to strangers! 

Think of someone visiting here from out west...no one talking to him, eyeing him suspiciously when he smiles...it'd be crazy.

I've been mtbing here in NE for 20 years now, and there is plenty of culture. It's just very local.

B


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## shredder89 (Oct 22, 2005)

Dont mean to do a "well I have it worse then you have!" , but here on the east coast of Canada, (New Brunswick) there is NO scene. Granted tehre isnt many riders or places to ride, but I think that really needs to change.


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## sirbikesalot (Jan 25, 2005)

Beware, our retarded president is trying to sell off portions of it. No wait, retarded isn't the right word, that's an insult to retarded people. Douchebag president. No, again that would be offending to actual douchebags...



NoTreadOnMe said:


> This is key.
> Down in NC where there are huge Natl. forests, there is tons of riding culture.


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## Roger___ (Jan 27, 2004)

I'm confused...do you mean mountain bike culture? If so, okay. But as far as "bike culture." Take another look, the East Coast has the biggest week in road cycling "Philly week." That just happened! Also, take a look in the fall/winter Cyclocross from what I've seen is very very big in the East Coast.


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## Don Juan (May 28, 2006)

MDEnvEngr said:


> New Englanders are notorious for their, "you mind your business and I'll mind mine...you nevermind my business," mentality. The cranky old New Englander prides himself on doing everything by himself, in his own way. To a certain extent we are all like that here. And that extends to "MTB Culture". I spend close to 100 hours a year on trail maintenance...by myself, or perhaps with a couple of friends. Although a member of NEMBA, I don't show up at trail maintenance days probably because my priorities put family at the top.
> 
> How many times here at home have you had a conversation or even exchanges pleasantries with the grocery cashier? Ever? Go out to CO, UT, CA and everybody talks to you. It's just unnatural, that speaking to strangers!
> 
> ...


I'm from CO, and when I moved to Maine a few years back, I noticed this as well. What a beautiful part of the country it was, but I left after 10 months of not meeting any socially outgoing people.


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## JUNGLEKID5 (May 1, 2006)

right on ron juan 
YA but people from the east coast are generly rude and stuck in there own world. wich is gay. i grew hear and i still dont understand it..now you want to see an organised bike culter go to boise id.. any niht of the week you will finde group rides of 30 or more.. from all diffenrt leves of riding.


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## namrita (Jun 1, 2005)

I am from Atlanta and just spent the last 4 days in Boise, ID. While I think we have a sizeable riding community here, it is much different out west. We were able to ride our bikes everywhere, didn't rent a car. Not once did we get yelled at, cut off, etc. like we do almost everytime we ride the roads here. The trails were a 10 min ride from our hotel. The bike shop was slammed all day, every day of the week. It is a huge shop with lots of inventory, and they have the business. I've never seen anything like that out here. Too bad I like the warm weather of the SouthEast otherwise I'd be out west in a heartbeat.


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## davefromNJ (Mar 4, 2004)

*Relocate?*



Jerk_Chicken said:


> I have to admit how jealous I am of seeing people in the Central and Western States. On the East Coast (particularly NE), we don't have much of a bike culture from what we see over there. I would say we have some scattered folks, but biking is still a cult thing for the most part.
> 
> Manufacturers and parts suppliers have forgotten about this region, for the most part. Demos are always elsewhere, shows are elsewhere, respect from motorists is next to nothing, parks commissions don't care.
> 
> I think the Eastern Seaboard, with specificity to the NE region is prime territory for expansion of mtb and manufacturer demos, but no one seems to care about biking here.


To the OP: I don't know your personal situation, but have you considered relocating out West? If you can't beat'em, then join'em&#8230;.


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## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

How about this-
1) The weather sucks
2) The land is overdeveloped
3) Most important, and most likely to start a flame war, is that the people there, on average, aren't as friendly and sociable. If you say "hi" to a stranger out there you're more likely to get a dirty look than a nod or a smile. Yes- this is a gross generalization, but in my experience (I've been to about 35-40 states) this attitude is far more prevelant east of the Mississippi. I've also only ever encountered "trail rage" in the east.


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## oldbroad (Mar 19, 2004)

Don Juan said:


> I'm from CO, and when I moved to Maine a few years back, I noticed this as well. What a beautiful part of the country it was, but I left after 10 months of not meeting any socially outgoing people.


You just didn't give it enough time! 
If you had hung in there for about 5 years your neighbors would have started to nod their heads in your direction when you saw them. And then, before you knew it, about 5 years later, they would say "morn'n" to you. Eventually, if you haved stayed, they might have even asked you "how do?" . 


OB
"Welcome to NH. Now go home."


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

@dam said:


> How about this-
> 1) The weather sucks
> 2) The land is overdeveloped
> 3) Most important, and most likely to start a flame war, is that the people there, on average, aren't as friendly and sociable. If you say "hi" to a stranger out there you're more likely to get a dirty look than a nod or a smile. Yes- this is a gross generalization, but in my experience (I've been to about 35-40 states) this attitude is far more prevelant east of the Mississippi. I've also only ever encountered "trail rage" in the east.


Wicked gross generalization.

I live in the White Mtns, surrounded by 800,000 acres of National Forest, State Parks, and a pile of other public lands. You can't go to the grocery store without knowing half the people in there. Compare this to metro Boston, Hartford, even Manchester or Portsmouth? You can't!

The "east" is a really big area, and I don't think any one state can be summed up in one generalization. Sorry, I don't buy any of those three you've listed. Even the weather.


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## whittij (Aug 10, 2004)

*we gotz da' goods*

yo.

in my opinion, whoever says NE doesn't have an active mtbike culture doesn't ride here enough!

there's a sh!t-ton of dedicated hard-core, ride-all-winter freaks up in NE. why don't you know them or where they ride? 'cause we're new englanders and you gotta know somebody to know somebody, you know? trails are always "secret" and secrets are kept within the possee and that's just the way it is. :ciappa: it's just a different scene. when i go out west, random people offer to take me riding on their favorite trail and it's effin' sweet! but here, it's all "don't ride 'my' trails B.S." it's a shame, but it is what it is. but, once you get to know some serious ride freaks, you meet more and more and it's on like donkey kong.

Boston is where some of the best mtbikes are custom made. it ain't 'cause no one rides 'em here. Seven, Independent Fabrication (Fat Chance back in the day) - lots of small builders too.

NE is rockin'. but if you come ride here, don't expect anyone to tell you where to ride! (but i will :thumbsup: ).


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

whittij said:


> yo.
> 
> in my opinion, whoever says NE doesn't have an active mtbike culture doesn't ride here enough!
> 
> ...


I have to say that much of what you wrote is true and a big shame. There's a lot of elitism here, the "I'm better than you crowd" that bases their superiority on what they ride or how "big" they go, secret trails, militant mtb organizations, and just plain lack of class. This is why I singled out the WMBA guys in Upstate NY. They're fun to ride with, ride with everyone, regardless of how XC or how burly the bike might be. They play out there and show people around. The sad fact is they are a small group in a small territory with surrounding groups and regions comprised of elitist organizations. It's these elitists that are partly responsible for the lack of mtb growth in the NE.


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## DBomb (May 19, 2004)

*New England Travel Culture*

Why is it that when I grew up in GA, traveling 2 hours to get somewhere decent (Atlanta) was no big deal. Traveling 5 hours to get to Jekyll Island was just a necessity. Now that I live in CT, traveling more than an hour to go to a race is a pain and a deterrent. Why does living in New England make me so lazy.

I concur with everyone else that says that our population density plays a huge factor. I remember marvelling at the ease of doing road biking when I visited friends in Bend, OR. I was truly envious of how bikes and cars share the roads there.

D.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

*Nice*



radair said:


> Wicked gross generalization.


Nice use of the word Wicked...

John


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Well, traffic sucks here, gas prices are high, infrastructure absolutely SUCKS. People are just plain not bike friendly. After some intentional near-misses, I don't even bother riding road in my town anymore. It's not worth it. This is provided the road has a shoulder and the "courteous" drivers aren't blowing their horns right by me because they're just plain ignorant.


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## 9.8m/s/s (Sep 26, 2005)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> I have to say that much of what you wrote is true and a big shame. There's a lot of elitism here, the "I'm better than you crowd" that bases their superiority on what they ride or how "big" they go, secret trails, militant mtb organizations, and just plain lack of class. This is why I singled out the WMBA guys in Upstate NY. They're fun to ride with, ride with everyone, regardless of how XC or how burly the bike might be. They play out there and show people around. The sad fact is they are a small group in a small territory with surrounding groups and regions comprised of elitist organizations. It's these elitists that are partly responsible for the lack of mtb growth in the NE.


The point your missing is that most of our trails are at critical mass, which fosters that attitude. Someone tells you, you mention it to someone, pretty soon atv's have found it and ripped it to shreds. Or worse, because a lot of the secret trails are of the harder variety, someone that shouldn't be out there in the first place takes a header and the entire place is shut down by a land manager who was weary of mtnbikers to begin with.

Trust me, if your good enough and in the know, you'll get shown the goods. Try it this way- learn your backyard riding area, develop some killer trails. Then invite a few select people and to ride and watch all the trails in your area open up to you.


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

Don Juan said:


> I'm from CO, and when I moved to Maine a few years back, I noticed this as well. What a beautiful part of the country it was, but I left after 10 months of not meeting any socially outgoing people.


Maine is too cold.

But besides that, it takes about 5 years to get to know an adult Mainiac. You have to be willing to sit silently and whittle for hours on end.

Seriously, people in New England are HONEST. Instead of a thousand meaningless conversations, they'll just say please and thank you and leave it at that.


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

oldbroad said:


> You just didn't give it enough time!
> If you had hung in there for about 5 years your neighbors would have started to nod their heads in your direction when you saw them. And then, before you knew it, about 5 years later, they would say "morn'n" to you. Eventually, if you haved stayed, they might have even asked you "how do?" .
> 
> 
> ...


But no matter how long you stay, you won't be a local till your great-grandkids are in the same school district you went to.

Upstate New York: Growing up my neighbors referred to my house as the "Bodie Place", despite the fact that Bodie had died 30 years before my parents bought the house. A mile up the road lived an old man named "Little John". He was average sized, it's just that his dad (who died in the 60s) was "Big John".


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## brianc (Jan 13, 2004)

MDEnvEngr said:


> New Englanders are notorious for their, "you mind your business and I'll mind mine...you nevermind my business," mentality. The cranky old New Englander prides himself on doing everything by himself, in his own way. To a certain extent we are all like that here. And that extends to "MTB Culture". I spend close to 100 hours a year on trail maintenance...by myself, or perhaps with a couple of friends. Although a member of NEMBA, I don't show up at trail maintenance days probably because my priorities put family at the top.
> 
> How many times here at home have you had a conversation or even exchanges pleasantries with the grocery cashier? Ever? Go out to CO, UT, CA and everybody talks to you. It's just unnatural, that speaking to strangers!
> 
> ...


this hits the nail on the head. I moved to NE from the West 2 years ago. The only reason that there is no "cult" in NE is the very nature of New Englanders.

Just look at how many of "us" came out on this post. Did any of you really think there were that many NE passion-ites? hang out in the dead MA, NH, VT, ME board and you'll get my drift.

I've meet lots of NE MTBers, a small fraction have become friends a riding buds. but the vast majority just give the "hey I like your pictures" and are never heard from again.

I won't side track to my personal views of NEMBA. there too the underlying personality of New Englanders causes the group to fail to reach it's true potential. (please NEMBA die-hards this is just my view, take it for what it's worth.)


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

9.8m/s/s said:


> The point your missing is that most of our trails are at critical mass, which fosters that attitude. Someone tells you, you mention it to someone, pretty soon atv's have found it and ripped it to shreds. Or worse, because a lot of the secret trails are of the harder variety, someone that shouldn't be out there in the first place takes a header and the entire place is shut down by a land manager who was weary of mtnbikers to begin with.
> 
> Trust me, *if your good enough and in the know*, you'll get shown the goods. Try it this way- learn your backyard riding area, develop some killer trails. Then invite a few select people and to ride and watch all the trails in your area open up to you.


The ATV's have been there before the bikes in many cases. It's also foolish to think they don't know or they aren't mtbers. Additionally, being "good enough isn't a prerequisite of biking. Not all trails are at critical mass that I've seen.

From what I've seen about ATVers, that is a law enforcement issue and they simply don't care.


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm a bike culture unto myself. I'm really not worried about everyone else. I'll agree that its not the easiest thing to ride on the roads around here with the bad drivers & poor road conditions etc...

And personally I really don't want to see more people on the trails. Lots of cars near a trail head make me go elsewhere...


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

whittij said:


> yo.
> 
> in my opinion, whoever says NE doesn't have an active mtbike culture doesn't ride here enough!
> 
> ...


Wow. Sounds like NE mountain bikers are a bunch of a$$holes. Charming.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

Yeah, here in WNC we've got an awesome bike scene...

Manufacturers? Cane Creek, industry nine, brew, endless, and others are located nearby...

Have hundreds of miles of killer trails within 20 mins drive, thousands when you expand drive time to 2 hours...

Good crew of local riders, mostly freeriders, but everyone gets along pretty well.

Yearly downhill race at sugar draws a good crowd if races are your thing, have participated in several critical masses in town, I've gone to 2 bike related events (freeride/dj comp and snowshoe opening weekend) and 2 group rides the past 4 weekends,. I know there's at least one weekly ride for roadies organized by the LBS where I shop, I wouldn't be suprised if they did more...

We meet cool riders from all over the region too, its not just NC. There are killer riders and scenes coming from GA, WV, TN, and SC, and even as far away as FL... 

I think a short riding season and some isolationist attitude are to blame for the woes 
of the NE, not lack of riding scenes in the east.


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## SuperbMan (Dec 17, 2004)

Well, I'm a local head of NEMBA here in lovely western, MA and here's my bike culture story..

a year and a half ago-I approached a large state forest about single track creation-they liked what I pitched so I got the green light. From December of 2004-June of 2005 we tagged, sweated and built around 8 miles of new single track and re-furbished a good 6-7 miles of old forest trails as well. By we, I mean two groups-me and two other stalwarts who got out at 5:00am 3 days a week and every saturday to get these trails built--but I also mean the 40-50 other guys and gals who came out and busted there hump for at least one 8 hour work fest (and we worked them like a mississippi chain gang).

Next, in July of 2005 we held a fundraiser/ ride for the park and for NEMBA--we got close to 200 riders out to our rather remote location for a great day of riding and fellowship. Afterwards, about a hundred or so riders came out to the after party and feasted on cheap beers and free food. Since then, we've laid in another few miles of single track at this forest and are greenlighted (and presently designing) another 6 miles.
There's a great Bonhomie between the local riders, our organizations and our regional DCR supervisors--and much of it stems from a rather vibrant bike community.

And this tale is hardly unique around here--the same story is repeated at two other major state forests in the Pioneer valley region alone. Two weeks ago I was at a similar event in Granby, MA that netted a good 160 riders sampling some dynamite riding built by the local riding culture. This weekend you can opt to head for Petersham Massachusetts and sample the goods that yet another intensely local but vibrant mtbing culture has fashioned. Hit Pedrosfest later this summer and get a slice of the very fine berkkshire scene. 

And beyond the advocacy, big event, trail creation stuff- I have to say that I ride with different folks almost everyday of the week--all ages, all abilities--most are just good guys and gals just like you'd find anywhere else in this fine country. I stop and talk often with the folks I run into on the trail--and yeah, they talk to. I have a number of little local places I love to haunt (and so do many others around here), and more than a handful of larger regional rides where 6-8 hours can be delightfully sweated away. I only moved to NE five years ago--but I ferreted out it's riding opportunities and riders--and, I feel comfortable saying that I've personally added to both. What impresses me most about the region is how many other people I've met who've done the same thing. It's incredible what a few dogged, truculent locals can pull off and just how many of those industrious locals there are in this region. That, of course, stems from a deep seated culture with far older roots than mountain biking. Anyway, there's a bike culture--a vibrant one at that, in New England-thing is-it doesn't stand alone as a separate 'cult' culture--but rather, it is part of and reflects a much larger, dynamic regional culture born of long history and experience. 

Some will like it and some won't-thank God there are so many distinct regional cultures in this fine U.S of A. Chalk me up in the "I like it" column.

Liam


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## 9.8m/s/s (Sep 26, 2005)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> The ATV's have been there before the bikes in many cases. It's also foolish to think they don't know or they aren't mtbers. Additionally, being "good enough isn't a prerequisite of biking. Not all trails are at critical mass that I've seen.
> 
> From what I've seen about ATVers, that is a law enforcement issue and they simply don't care.


First, I never said you needed to be good enough for all trails, just some. Second, what I should have said was a good/knowledgable enough rider. 
See, by attempting to contradict me you just proved my point. To say that everyone that throws leg over a mountain bike deserves to know every single trail suggests that you haven't been in the sport for very long, probaby aren't very good, and spend no time giving back to your local trails. Spend a little time and you'll see that in our community we have idiots that ride when areas are too muddy, idiots who trailbraid, and possibly some even dumb enough to come back to the trails with a ATV. Take Case in Ct as an example. All three problems are turning an area that was once one of the best in Ct to a dumbed down freeway. It's so bad, in many sections even skilled first timers can't find the original line. Real riders know "If you didn't make the trail, don't alter the trail". Noobs do not.

And yes, I understand that not all trails are at critical mass. I live next to a riding area that I'm almost begging people to check out. Every rule has exceptions. You wanted broad strokes, that's what you got.

1) We have population problems
2) We have ATV problems
3) We have land mgr/ space problems
4) We have internal mtn biker problems


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## geargal (Jan 13, 2006)

hikerdave said:


> Public Land.
> 
> Most of the western states have huge tracts of Forest Service and BLM land open to mountain bikes, and more land is publicly owned than privately owned.


I really believe that is a big reason.


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## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

radair said:


> Wicked gross generalization.
> 
> The "east" is a really big area, and I don't think any one state can be summed up in one generalization. Sorry, I don't buy any of those three you've listed. Even the weather.


I know- that is why I said it is was a gross generalization. I made that reply before reading the rest of the thread though. Funny that I'm not the only one who noticed the trend, huh? I know there are exceptional areas for the public lands, too. I'm just saying that on average, compared to the west, there isn't as much and it is more cut up. Areas that are considered 'kind of neat' in the west would be made into national parks if they were located a few thousand miles to the east.


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## geargal (Jan 13, 2006)

MDEnvEngr said:


> How many times here at home have you had a conversation or even exchanges pleasantries with the grocery cashier? Ever? Go out to CO, UT, CA and everybody talks to you. It's just unnatural, that speaking to strangers!
> 
> Think of someone visiting here from out west...no one talking to him, eyeing him suspiciously when he smiles...it'd be crazy.
> 
> B


This is so true. I moved from UT to Albany, NY 2 years ago. When we first moved here I tried exchanging pleasantries with the grocery cashier and she looked at me like I was insane. All I got from her was a grunt. Well I am movin' out to Boulder in a month. Funny thing, my husband and I were just out there and we have already made some acquaintances during our short stay.


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## Guyechka (Jul 19, 2005)

Locoman said:


> I'm a bike culture unto myself. I'm really not worried about everyone else. I'll agree that its not the easiest thing to ride on the roads around here with the bad drivers & poor road conditions etc...
> 
> And personally I really don't want to see more people on the trails. Lots of cars near a trail head make me go elsewhere...


Please do not come down here to my local riding spot. Afternoons and weekends we fill the parking lot and overflow about ten cars on the sides of the road around the lot. And that's just for one of the five parking areas that access all 250 acres of Case Mt. (yeah, Jish, we've been over the size of Case before, but the part that is Case itself and regulated by the parks commission is 250 acres). If you do come, hike, don't ride. Riders are friendlier to hikers than other riders. It seems that they feel obliged to be nice to ensure that they get to continue to ride the trails.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

_How about this-
1) The weather sucks
2) The land is overdeveloped
3) Most important, and most likely to start a flame war, is that the people there, on average, aren't as friendly and sociable. If you say "hi" to a stranger out there you're more likely to get a dirty look than a nod or a smile. Yes- this is a gross generalization, but in my experience (I've been to about 35-40 states) this attitude is far more prevelant east of the Mississippi. I've also only ever encountered "trail rage" in the east._

(1) My buddies and I have taken to riding through the winter. The woods are warmer than the open road, so roadies tend to join in for the season! It adds to the challenge and makes it easier to get in shape for "riding season." All you need is proper clothing and keep breaks to a minimum- you're warm after a few minutes.

(2) The bits of land we DO have, are all the sweeter due to the development. I also like the security of knowing I can be out there by myself w/o a cellphone, and not worry too much about getting hurt or eaten by mountain lions or bears.

(3) I've been riding around NYC a lot lately and find that there's a terrific variety of bikers along my commute and in the park. I especially like the park for chatting with other riders, breaks the monotony! Even had a gypsy cab driver chat with me the other day, as I was sprinting for the light. He was like, "Go ahead!" and let me take the lane! 

Still, I hate feeling like a total outsider in the suburbs. As much as I love where I live, and hope that I can lend a hand in establishing a better bike culture, living out west must be a dream come true for a biker.


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## daisycutter (Sep 18, 2005)

*East coast is the DH capital of the us of a*

I live in NYC and am three hours away from three lift operated ski areas and 5 hours away from three more. In the suppossed bike capital of the world California there is only one or two places to go in the whole state. I find it ironic that I can hit plattakill and diablo in the same weekend as in this weekend. The north east is the place to be if you DH.


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## Hardtail Guy (Apr 29, 2005)

Drewdane said:


> Wow. Sounds like NE mountain bikers are a bunch of a$$holes. Charming.


A common misconception. My gf (born and raised in Chicago) thought us New Englanders are a bunch of jerks, until I explained it is a polite, efficient understanding we all have with one another. The understanding is "I got my **** to do, you've got yours, instead of standing here having a 5 min BS conversation, eye contact and a nod are all we need to say 'hihowareyahowareyourkidswhatsnewhowstheweatherhowboutthemRedSoxsayhitoyourwifehaveagoodweekend.'" Outsiders see us as cold, but to each other, we understand, and it isn't rude at all-it's appreciated, that we minimize wasting each others' time.


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## oldbroad (Mar 19, 2004)

The ride this evening in the Granite State, the heart of NE:
The singletrack trails are sopping wet, so it was a 50/50 road/double track ride.
Posted it on the local nemba e-mail list.
3 folks showed.
Had a good chat while waiting to see if others showed.
While on the road, saw 2 roadies - waved & got waved back at
Had one car come close, but don't think it was intentional.
Someone in another car yelled out something about a$$, didn't quite catch the whole thing
In the woods, passed a walker - exchanged pleasantries
Had a deer run in front of us - it said nothing
Passed 3 guys fishing - they also said nothing
Passed a dog walker - exchanged pleasantries
Passed some paint ball players - made jokes about not being the enemy, they laughed.
Passed a bunch of softball players - said nothing
Back to the house - said "see a couple of you on Thursday’s ride."
That much different from anywhere else? 
(Well, maybe a little more crowded!)


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## dwnhlldav (Feb 2, 2006)

Hardtail Guy said:


> A common misconception. My gf (born and raised in Chicago) thought us New Englanders are a bunch of jerks, until I explained it is a polite, efficient understanding we all have with one another. The understanding is "I got my **** to do, you've got yours, instead of standing here having a 5 min BS conversation, eye contact and a nod are all we need to say 'hihowareyahowareyourkidswhatsnewhowstheweatherhowboutthemRedSoxsayhitoyourwifehaveagoodweekend.'" Outsiders see us as cold, but to each other, we understand, and it isn't rude at all-it's appreciated, that we minimize wasting each others' time.


****in yeah! you hit the nail on the head with that one.

It's also a difference in attitude, we had family from Minnisota out and went to a diner, we had a typical diner waitress ready to smyte you for the fun of it, and I gave her **** back and we had a great time. The family couldn't get over how rude she was. What I saw as good natured ribbing to keep things fun they saw as rude. Thats just how we are. Now Fock off

I'll bet all you westerners like when some one answers the phone "Good afternoon, thankyou for calling Volvo of Fort Washington, this is alexa speaking, how may I assist you today?" Thats just to freakin long, I like the old hag that just answers "Volvo" saves me the hassel of cutting her off mid sentance.:madmax:


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

brianc said:


> ....I won't side track to my personal views of NEMBA. there too the underlying personality of New Englanders causes the group to fail to reach it's true potential. (please NEMBA die-hards this is just my view, take it for what it's worth.)


Ha, you just did sidetrack! Since you opened the can...

In a way you're right, but I don't think it has anything to do with "New Englanders". IMO, NEMBA failing to reach its full potential is primarily due to people's reluctance to join. People in general are too cheap/busy/uninterested to get involved. 25 bucks a year is dirt cheap, but lots of folks won't cough it up. Sitting in meetings with land managers is boring as hell, and a lot of people won't come back for a second (or third) round. Trail building is hard work and trail maintenance is not a whole lot of fun - definitely not for everyone.

What NEMBA has accomplished is staggering: no other MTB organization owns property (and our 48 acres of land in Vietnam has some of the finest technical terrain in the east). Here in the White Mtns, we created three of the finest trails in the valley, built over 450' of bog bridges, and funded, designed and built 2 major bridges, all in the last 5 years. Many other chapters have done tons of similar work throughout the region. And these are all volunteers, folks like you and me with busy lives, doing all of this work.

In my opinion, if you're an active mountain biker, you have no excuse not to join your local advocacy group. Even (especially) if you never lift a tool or attend a meeting, your money and name on the membership list gives us resources and lobbying power to get stuff done.

FWIW, I joined Friends of Otero before going to NM this year.


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

Hardtail Guy said:


> A common misconception. My gf (born and raised in Chicago) thought us New Englanders are a bunch of jerks, until I explained it is a polite, efficient understanding we all have with one another. The understanding is "I got my **** to do, you've got yours, instead of standing here having a 5 min BS conversation, eye contact and a nod are all we need to say 'hihowareyahowareyourkidswhatsnewhowstheweatherhowboutthemRedSoxsayhitoyourwifehaveagoodweekend.'" Outsiders see us as cold, but to each other, we understand, and it isn't rude at all-it's appreciated, that we minimize wasting each others' time.


I was referring to the "they're my trails and I'm not sharing" attitude. Believe me, as someone who grew up in CA I deeply appreciate taciturn people.


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## LakeRaven (Dec 28, 2003)

Build it and they will come.

Launch an MTBr gathering and you'll reveal the mountain bike culture (that was there all along). Go to Pedrofest in MA and get some ideas about putting the fun into your mini-fest.....go to Dirt Rags Punk Bike Enduro and pay a little attention to how to organise an enduro. Pick a spot that you know pretty well and post up the invitations on every board you can think of......beer, bikes and camping.....you'll walk away from that weekend with new riding friends. Even the most crusty independent souls, may join in on the fun. Pre columbian indians used to hold gatherings of their splintered tribes......they'd pick a sweet spot and spend a few weeks together. The Mountain men of the western frontier would gather together once in a while to whoop it up and trade goods. Mountain bike gatherings are a great way for smaller pockets of 'like-minded' bike freaks to get to know each other, without the competative posturing that takes place during races. Throw in an Enduro and you have the best of both a race and a festival event, due to the stretchy elastic, silly putty format.

I'm not from the east coast......so I may be totally wrong......but it's worked in the Mid-West. My momma taught me never to talk to strangers, but I still do, cuz there's nobody stranger than me.......and I talk to myself all the time.

Take a look here for the Mid-Western Model - http://www.gnome-fest.net/GF3.htm

g


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## brianc (Jan 13, 2004)

radair said:


> Ha, you just did sidetrack! Since you opened the can...
> 
> In a way you're right, but I don't think it has anything to do with "New Englanders". IMO, NEMBA failing to reach its full potential is primarily due to people's reluctance to join. People in general are too cheap/busy/uninterested to get involved. 25 bucks a year is dirt cheap, but lots of folks won't cough it up. Sitting in meetings with land managers is boring as hell, and a lot of people won't come back for a second (or third) round. Trail building is hard work and trail maintenance is not a whole lot of fun - definitely not for everyone.
> 
> ...


I agree with your statements about trail work and advocacy.

But I don't think "bike culture" is only about trail work. It's the whole packag: riding, haning out, trip, trail work, advocacy, racing, ect.

NEMBA has done a great deal, but the issue that I have stems from the attitude. which I maybe ignorantly attribute to NE. I;ve been to a few nemba big group rides. at the first, we rode Great Brook then went to PK's house for beer and food. outside of one person (Bill) no one said anything to me. I was there, my 1st week in NE, wearing my FOO gear and no one even asked what it ment or my thought on MTB, trail work, advocacy, what bike I ride, etc. At the time I thought my eperience ith Otero could be a good asset for NEMBA and that I would contribute. But I came away with the feeling that people were either not friendly, didnt really care, or just had their clicks and that as enough for them.

since then I simply do my own rides and trail work, then snipe a NEMBA trail day adn try to escape without signing up for the raffle.

Now if I really wanted to sidetrack on NEMBA I'd ask if they ere going to keep that land "they" bought. hopefully that is just a nasty rumor.

I hope that you can read my thoughts and view them as constructuve criticism for the NEMBA. I feel could achive much more but the attitiude can get in the way. but what do I know, I'm an outsider.


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

9.8m/s/s said:


> See, by attempting to contradict me you just proved my point. To say that everyone that throws leg over a mountain bike deserves to know every single trail suggests that you haven't been in the sport for very long, probaby aren't very good, and spend no time giving back to your local trails. Spend a little time and you'll see that in our community we have idiots that ride when areas are too muddy, idiots who trailbraid, and possibly some even dumb enough to come back to the trails with a ATV. Take Case in Ct as an example. All three problems are turning an area that was once one of the best in Ct to a dumbed down freeway. It's so bad, in many sections even skilled first timers can't find the original line. Real riders know "If you didn't make the trail, don't alter the trail". Noobs do not.
> 
> And yes, I understand that not all trails are at critical mass. I live next to a riding area that I'm almost begging people to check out. Every rule has exceptions. You wanted broad strokes, that's what you got.
> 
> ...


 Perhaps you don't come off well typing but this post made me glad I live out west, makes you sound like an elitist prick. Just an obsesrvation.:thumbsup:


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

brianc said:


> I agree with your statements about trail work and advocacy. But I don't think "bike culture" is only about trail work. It's the whole packag: riding, haning out, trip, trail work, advocacy, racing, ect. .


I agree completely, Brian. I definitely got off the culture topic a bit here.



brianc said:


> NEMBA has done a great deal, but the issue that I have stems from the attitude. which I maybe ignorantly attribute to NE. I;ve been to a few nemba big group rides. at the first, we rode Great Brook then went to PK's house for beer and food. outside of one person (Bill) no one said anything to me. I was there, my 1st week in NE, wearing my FOO gear and no one even asked what it ment or my thought on MTB, trail work, advocacy, what bike I ride, etc. At the time I thought my eperience ith Otero could be a good asset for NEMBA and that I would contribute. But I came away with the feeling that people were either not friendly, didnt really care, or just had their clicks and that as enough for them.


It sucks that you felt ignored and unwelcome and I'm really sorry to hear that. There's no excuse for it. But the organization is comprised of many individuals, and I honestly don't think there's any prevalent attitude. First impressions can be long-lasting, and it blows that some socially inept people gave you a bad impression to begin with. I can only guess PK was completely busy being the host, as he is normally a very social and welcoming guy.

I'm a bit of an introvert and am likely not to start conversations with people I don't know. This could easily be construed as me being unfriendly or having an attitude when that's not the case. I try to introduce myself or speak to people I don't know, but it's a real effort when it's just not your nature. No doubt it's an issue when you meet someone who "represents" an organization (even if they're only an inactive member) and they turn out to be a d!ck. How can you police that? You can't, of course.



brianc said:


> Now if I really wanted to sidetrack on NEMBA I'd ask if they ere going to keep that land "they" bought. hopefully that is just a nasty rumor.


I'm on the Board of Directors and I assure you that there has been no discussion of giving up ownership of the 'Nam property. We have had some challenges with insurance and taxes, but that goes with breaking new ground in advocacy. Whatever rumor you heard has no basis of fact. As a significant donor, I would strongly oppose relinquishing title of the property if someone suggested it, which to my knowledge has not occurred.

I hope we can hook up again in the fall when I'm back on two wheels.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

I believe a previous poster hit the nail on the head about the trail work and advocacy and asking for handouts at every turn. While I think these organizations do good for the most part, some are militant and preachy and take the fun out of biking.

A lesson should be to answer a question with the answer, not a speech and list to donate as the first thing, then attend without being given answers. People need incentives to join on their own, not being told to join.

Additionally, people are jerks out here. The culture is less friendly, less open. The problems that exist are based on styles of riding, riding skill, resentment, and a host of other issues. People bring their personal grudges and vices out onto the trails where they shouldn't be.

Next issue is back to the manufacturers. That terrible NYC Bike Show is gone, perhaps due to the management (they still post manufacturers that haven't been there since the 90's) since it went from something of a bike show to a flea market, but the manufacturers don't care to come out here, for the most part. The east coast to too remote with too little need for them to see. We apparently buy without needing to try and they're happy with that.

Mail order is a problem, too. But that lies in the hands of the riders AND bike shops. Too many bike shops are ripoff artists, while the great shops are far and few. It goes in circles. Shops rip us off, we buy mail order, shops lose sales, new shops don't open or expand, good shops die, we go back to mailorder.


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> People bring their personal grudges and vices out onto the trails where they shouldn't be.
> 
> .


 Isn't that a reason to ride, to LEAVE all that sh!t behind. Very interesting thread.


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## 9.8m/s/s (Sep 26, 2005)

jugdish said:


> Perhaps you don't come off well typing but this post made me glad I live out west, makes you sound like an elitist prick. Just an obsesrvation.:thumbsup:


 Just a different culture I guess. But if that last post gets under your thin skin, don't come anywhere near NE, you would hate it here.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

jugdish said:


> Isn't that a reason to ride, to LEAVE all that sh!t behind. Very interesting thread.


It is and there are elite clans out here. People also have their grudges they apply on the trails.

I feel that once we're out in the woods, we're all the same. We're not red or blue, we're not our respective races or riding styles, we're just MTB. This romantic view of riding isn't true, for the most part out here (with the notable exception I made previously). When we're in the woods, we're all there for each other if there's a problem, but then you have the guys that think if you're having a problem, you're ****ing up their ride or if you're too slow, you're screwing them up. Lots of arrogance, lots of "ME ME ME" and not enough of "US".


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## 9.8m/s/s (Sep 26, 2005)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> It is and there are elite clans out here. People also have their grudges they apply on the trails.
> 
> I feel that once we're out in the woods, we're all the same. We're not red or blue, we're not our respective races or riding styles, we're just MTB. This romantic view of riding isn't true, for the most part out here (with the notable exception I made previously). When we're in the woods, we're all there for each other if there's a problem, but then you have the guys that think if you're having a problem, you're ****ing up their ride or if you're too slow, you're screwing them up. Lots of arrogance, lots of "ME ME ME" and not enough of "US".


Maybe they're just sick of you complianing. 

I have never, ever, had anyone I was riding with have a problem with me stopping to fix a problem I was having.


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

9.8m/s/s said:


> Just a different culture I guess. But if that last post gets under your thin skin, don't come anywhere near NE, you would hate it here.


 Sorry about the "prick" comment, just appeared that way. I know I really don't give a sh!t how I come across on here to be honest. At any rate I find this thread very interesting. I had thought about moving back east at one point in time to be near family but in the end riding was/is more important. Have a good one...


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## huffin & puffin pete (Jun 14, 2006)

New England lacking Bike Culture???? Bull ****

We ask for some help from our small RI community of mtbkers for a cleanup of a management property and over 60 people show (we've got 125 plus RI NEMBA members and I think maybe 250 plus riders in RI). 

Last month's bridge building project in Arcadia brought 18 riders. The list I keep informally for a ride some of us do every Thursday night is well over 80 people (in little old Rhodie). Most weeks 15 -20 show to ride. 

Living around Providence I've got seven excellent riding spots within an hour (Arcadia, Big River, Burringame, Lincoln Woods, (in Mass) Foxboro, Freetown, Borderlands. These all have some excellent single track. Outside mileage loops 27, 18, 12, 6, 12, 30, 12 miles respectively. 

Of course we could do a better job getting more members (RI NEMBA) but when people drop into our riding environment (from all over the country) they are generally amazed at how great our riding is given how dence the population is. 

Drop us an email (thru RI NEMBA) when you're in Southern New England. We'll show you a good time on the trails.

best wishes 
huffin & puffin pete


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

I'm familiar with the Providence area. I'll have to check it out this summer.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

*Elitism?*

I dunno if I buy that elitism antagonism idea - at least not in CT. I've been riding for 20 years or so. Other than my sometimes riding buddy DNA, I've run into exactly three other riders who I would consider elitist (and all three were in Fruita). I've taken some very inexperienced riders on rides and I've ridden with some very fast racer types. Every ride I've ever done has been a great deal of fun. I've met many riders in the woods and never had anything but a positive experience.

I'm not exactly an extrovert. I hate parties and I hate large group rides. Last year, against my initial judgement, I went to the NEMBA Freeride fest in N Conway, NH. I had met a few individuals prior to going, but I was largely a stranger to those in attendance. This is not an environment I'm very comfortable with and I fully expected the BrianC experience mentioned above. Once the bikes and beers came out, it was like a huge party with new friends, it was a different experience for me, I had a great time.

I've ridden Superb Man's and Radair's local trails and they are among the best maintained I've had the pleasure of putting rubber against.

I do think north and central CT need more volunteering and the trails need more organized maintenance. Yeah, I clear the dead fall here and there, I take out the cheater lines (and cheater rocks), but we need to get organized to do major projects.

Personally the last few years have been very busy with kids and stuff, so I've done the $$ thing over the time thing. Hopefully that will change in the next few years. I will say its somewhat difficult to want to spend hours doing trail maintenance when there is so much ATV damage, but even that is a bit of a cop out on my part.

If anyone wants to see some of "my" trails, drop me a line, I'm always willing to show someone around.

John


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## PoweredbySweat (Jan 28, 2006)

The west tends to be a lot dryer than other areas. Who wants to constantly ride in mud?


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## Guyechka (Jul 19, 2005)

Jisch said:


> I've ridden Superb Man's and Radair's local trails and they are among the best maintained I've had the pleasure of putting rubber against.
> 
> If anyone wants to see some of "my" trails, drop me a line, I'm always willing to show someone around.
> 
> John


Secrets? Trails not listed at bikerag? I went to Grayville once on recommendation from bikerag, but it looked like no one had done any trail work in a year. Made me angry to see such nice stuff becoming overgrown or littered with blowdown.

Where are these well maintained trails?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

*Fallacy....*



oilfreeandhappy said:


> The west tends to be a lot dryer than other areas. Who wants to constantly ride in mud?


I can only speak for CT here, but its a rare occassion when the trails are really muddy. Are there mud puddles - yep, some that never dry up unless we have a drought.

We just went through a rare time where there was significant mud on the trails, but even then its only that the regular mud puddles are larger than normal. This was after 8" of rain in a few weeks or so.

The trails are packed down pretty hard, and many are actually kind of sandy. In normal conditions, we can ride pretty much the next day after a rain storm. We don't typically get huge amounts of snow, so even in the winter we can ride the frozen trails. I didn't miss a week of riding this whole winter due to snow or mud.

Anyway, its a great place to ride. 
John


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

*not that secret...*



Guyechka said:


> Secrets? Trails not listed at bikerag? I went to Grayville once on recommendation from bikerag, but it looked like no one had done any trail work in a year. Made me angry to see such nice stuff becoming overgrown or littered with blowdown.
> 
> Where are these well maintained trails?


Yeah, I'm not sure where the "maintained" trails are, I haven't seen many in CT - other than the small/intermittent stuff we all do when we're out there.

I probably don't ride anywhere that's not listed on Bikerag, but we've worked out the best loops, which is half of having a good ride - riding the right direction on the trails. Bigelow is an awesome ride, if you go the right direction, in the wrong direction its a hike a bike disaster.

I don't know when you went to Grayville last, but I rode there with MDEng (sorry I know I messed up his screename) last year and the trails were in really nice shape. I know the ones down near the river weren't as ridden in as the ones higher up were, but they were still rideable. I would say Grayville was one of the more maintained places I've ridden.

John


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## Guyechka (Jul 19, 2005)

Jisch said:


> I don't know when you went to Grayville last, but I rode there with MDEng (sorry I know I messed up his screename) last year and the trails were in really nice shape. I know the ones down near the river weren't as ridden in as the ones higher up were, but they were still rideable. I would say Grayville was one of the more maintained places I've ridden.
> 
> John


Well, I only went once, by myself. I'm sure I didn't see all that it has to offer, but I know I was in the right place. Prior to going out there I reviewed all the pics at bikerag. I was on those trails, because I recognized certain features. But now that I think about it, I was pretty close to the river the whole time. It just looked like nothing had been done to the trails I was on since the pics went in at bikerag. Some pretty cool stuff, though--low but technical.


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## Tyrus (Jun 14, 2006)

Ok, now I realize I haven't posted here before, I have mostly lurked on and off for a few years, but I felt a need to add my experiences here.

I have lived most of my life in the central atlantic area, specifically MD. There is no real widespread culture of MTBikers here. There are pockets yes, and some groups that do great things with trail advocacy and work, but really, it's mostly just individuals and small groups of friends that stick to thier own, maybe talk some when they meet up at shops. Trail access really still sucks, have fun finding places to ride if you don't drive, and heaven forbid you try to string together a bit of a route through the cities, you get yourself harrassed at the least. Then you deal with horse riders and hikers that treat you as though you belong in hell, and if they had the cars they drove to the trailhead, they would run you down happily.

Comparison number one. I spent a summer in Tucson, AZ. I could ride anywhere, anytime, and was treated like another real person. If you stopped in a shop and asked about trails or rides, people were handy with maps and stories, directions and offers to show you where to go, even rides to some of the more outlying places. It was great in that respect.

Comparison two. I spent a summer in north central MA. Yeah, even the bike shops tried to make me feel like a criminal for asking. I was met with replies to the likes of "there are no trails here" "are you from out of town?" and other such things. No one wanted anything to do with helping me find trails, heck, even with a couple repairs I needed to get done to my ride. When I did find some places to ride, mostly through this site, the other riders were rude, generally uncaring about damaging trails, unless they thought you were doing it, then they were quick to throw a fit. The only person I found that was helpful at all was a park ranger who was leading a ride to help get local kids into riding. Besides cost of living and other economic problems, the attitude I encountered by the "biking community" there is enough to keep me from ever going back. That and the fact that if you weren't into going big, riding a 40 pound, four thousand dollar free ride or downhill rig, you weren't a "real mountain biker".

What I see as the problem... lack of acceptace among bikers. Accept one another and make the effort to be at least friendly to each other, and perhaps we can get something oc a culture and community here. Maybe even get some respect so the other trail users will stop scapegoating us.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2006)

My experience with the East Coast is that the terrain is somewhat soft. I lived in Ontario, Canada for several years after living in Utah for most of my life. I was always amazed at the mountain bikers that though they were doing cool and hardcore biking, when in reality there were 8 year olds doing more technical riding in Moab. 

The other problem with the East coast is that it is a bit yuppy. There are a lot of posers out east. I am not saying that this is the case with all mountain bikers out east, I am just saying that there is a trend.

Also, the longer I am out west, the more I come in contact with East Coast sell outs that are living out west to be near the good biking, skiing, climbing etc. Perhaps the real reason that the east coast is weak on bike community is because all of the good bikers bailed out and came out west. After living in eastern canada for several years and then returning to my roots, I would never go back. Chow.


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## SuperbMan (Dec 17, 2004)

Hmmm....

First off--Secret Trails??? Actually the trails I work on and ride in the area are anything but secret. They're on the official state forest maps printed by the DCR for each specific park. They're also on the NEMBA website with detailed routes.

And soft "easy" riding--that, of course is argument seeking, pugnacious nonsense. Anyone who has ridden all over the nation (as I have) and has really sucked the marrow of New England riding knows that easy, intermediate and challenging quality riding can be found in spades in all regions--including New England.

Secondly--it's starting to dawn on me a few specific cultural differences--it seems the common complaint is that no one else has created an easy to plug into social group comprised of mountain bikers--nor is their a large interest in doing so in New England. Second to that complaint, is that no one has bent over bacckwards to lead the transplants around the woods in an authoritative fashion.

Most of the folks I know who ride are fairly serious adults in this region-ages spanning mid twenties to early seventies. By serious I don't mean they're nnot fun. just rather, busy--family, careers, friends, other recreational/ hobbyist pursuits-etc. New England isn't the sort of region that people dedicate they're lives to the pursuit of single recreational goal (ala ski bum, or in the case of Fruita-Moab bike bum living-), rather, it's a dynamic area where there are many, many competing pursuits most of us try to carefully balance.

This is not a better than worse than comparison--each appeals to different folks at different stages in their lives. New england riders and riding commmunity, frankly, just have a more mature attitude about itself.

I'm a transplant to the region. I moved here 5 years ago (with wife, family and career in tow) and in no time I not only found where to ride, whom to ride with, and the biking community in general, but I became a local leader within that community and began creating large scale riding oppotunities in inviting more people to partake in them. 

Honestly, it was and is very easy--all it took was some mature, self-confident assertiveness--a character trait quite common to the New England biking scene. Not to be too mocking--but the complaints that ""no one talks too me" "No one shows me the trails", "No one asks me what My shirt means"--"no one wants to expound on the oneness of all riders in the woods with me"--just seems rather childish. I don't have time to create social/ philosophical meta-biking communities for everyone else--Around here, most people expect mature competent folks to DO THAT FOR THEMSELVES! And you what, most riders around here pull it off just fine.

What I try to guarantee, by way of communal effort (based not on spreading "good vibrations to the tribe, man", but rather, by heaps of sweat equity and actual time consuming work and the dedcated assistance of a multitude of like-minded, pragmatic adults) is that everyone will have great places to ride, they'll remain accessible and legal-and if you ride with me you get free beer afterwards. The rest is up to you.


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## Rooster (May 7, 2004)

Well said, SuperbMan, Jisch, and Huffin & Puffing Pete. I've been riding seriously for 3 years now. When I was a noob, and being a stubburn, introverted, swamp yankee, I figured I'd just go find good places to ride, after all, I've lived here all my life, I know this place, right? WRONG! Some of my ventures were pretty bad (although I did get bit hard by the MTB bug ) About a month into it, I joined NEMBA, and they turned me on to some awesome single-track, all of it within a 1/2 hour's drive or riding time. Additionally (thanks to them) I've made new friends and networks of riding groups. 3 years later, I'm still discovering new single track, and this is just in "Little Rhodey". My point is, without an established culture, if that's what you want to call it, I'd still be ignorant of all this great riding.

This thread has been great. I've laughed out loud at some of the "wicked" funny stereo typing. I'm also amazed at the amount of ignorance and stupidity (ignorance is forgivable, stupidity is for life). I'm sorry for anyone who has visited here and been disappointed with our "culture".

I'll throw an invitation on the table here for my fellow MTBR brethren: if you ever find yourself and your bike in RI, I'd be happy to show you around some of "my" single track. Just don't expect me to keep up. I too will gladly share my beer with you after the ride. PM me if you're game!
-Matt


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## 9.8m/s/s (Sep 26, 2005)

SuperbMan said:


> Honestly, it was and is very easy--all it took was some mature, self-confident assertiveness--a character trait quite common to the New England biking scene. Not to be too mocking--but the complaints that ""no one talks too me" "No one shows me the trails", "No one asks me what My shirt means"--"no one wants to expound on the oneness of all riders in the woods with me"--just seems rather childish. I don't have time to create social/ philosophical meta-biking communities for everyone else--Around here, most people expect mature competent folks to DO THAT FOR THEMSELVES! And you what, most riders around here pull it off just fine.
> 
> What I try to guarantee, by way of communal effort (based not on spreading "good vibrations to the tribe, man", but rather, by heaps of sweat equity and actual time consuming work and the dedcated assistance of a multitude of like-minded, pragmatic adults) is that everyone will have great places to ride, they'll remain accessible and legal-and if you ride with me you get free beer afterwards. The rest is up to you.


Superbman, that is absolutely the best assesment of bike culture around here I've ever heard. If anyone just skipped to my post, go back and read his for a great definition of NE bike culture. 
I might take you up ride, been looking to see Arcadia and Lincoln Woods for a while now (and somehow I spent four years in college at Providence without seeing any of it ) Might have to take you up on the free beer offer also. If your looking to see some southern ct trails, let me know.


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

Andykiller said:


> My experience with the East Coast is that the terrain is somewhat soft. I lived in Ontario, Canada for several years after living in Utah for most of my life. I was always amazed at the mountain bikers that though they were doing cool and hardcore biking, when in reality there were 8 year olds doing more technical riding in Moab.
> 
> The other problem with the East coast is that it is a bit yuppy. There are a lot of posers out east. I am not saying that this is the case with all mountain bikers out east, I am just saying that there is a trend.
> 
> Also, the longer I am out west, the more I come in contact with East Coast sell outs that are living out west to be near the good biking, skiing, climbing etc. Perhaps the real reason that the east coast is weak on bike community is because all of the good bikers bailed out and came out west. After living in eastern canada for several years and then returning to my roots, I would never go back. Chow.


 Ouch.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

What I'm reading is some people have a local community, which they are lucky for, but because they have their own community, they can't understand the people that don't have much of a local community, elitist community, lack of industry support out here, thin bike shop coverage, and shops not specialized in high end over kid's bikes. It's not just a matter of community only. MTB just isn't big here. It's the typical thing we've seen on the board, "It hasn't happened to me, so it doesn't exist at all for anyone else".


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

if you don't like the culture here, move west...

don't let the door hit you on the @ss on the way out.

me personally, i love theland i've seen out west but if i had to put up with that fake friendly BS from the people all day everyday, i'd really have to restrain myself from punching people in the face regularly.

i like the east coast; attitude and all... i have never felt more out of the loop then the two weeks i spent in boulder. if you weren't some "in the know" hippie trustafarian it seemed no one would talk to you... maybe that how y'all feel when you come east??? the snowboarding was great but everything else just made me wish i was back home.


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

SuperbMan said:


> Hmmm....
> _*snip*_


Well said, but some of the posts in this thread seem to make it quite clear that "outsiders" are neither welcomed nor given the time of day in NE, unless they use their psychic powers to learn the sooper-dooper secret handshake or some childish crap like that. :madman:

Contrast to the MidAtlantic region (this thread is about the East, remember, not just NE), with a large, active and well-organized club (MORE, named #1 IMBA affiliate in the nation last year), well-maintained trails covering all levels of riding expertise, and a "culture" that is generally more than happy to show a noobie the ropes and a newcomer where the best spots are.

No disrespect, but I think ours is a much better approach.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

This thread is definitely telling and bolstering the point I'm trying to make about the type of culture, or lack thereof. We should be working together, not trying to hold out to people not "in the know". We could get many things accomplished by grouping together, but no. If one complains, then they are asked to leave. This only adds to the problem of mtb in the NE because it's really not growing much. How often does one see people asking about moving to the NE for the biking compared to elsewhere? I think there was a thread about the best biking places in the US and the pictures. All the replies came from the midwest and western states. Why? I think the biking is good here, but what's the problem? I don't think it's the weather. I know I'm biking more in the winter than in the summer. It doesn't rain all the time like in the NW. So what is it then? Why won't manufacturers explore around here?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

*I'm starting to think I'm infected...*



Drewdane said:


> Well said, but some of the posts in this thread seem to make it quite clear that "outsiders" are neither welcomed nor given the time of day in NE, unless they use their psychic powers to learn the sooper-dooper secret handshake or some childish crap like that.


Maybe I'm reading these posts with a NE filter, but I don't feel like there's any secret handshake stuff at all. I've never been refused on a ride, or to show someone a new place to ride. I've taken MTBRs on rides, I've joined their rides elsewhere. I've never had an issue with anyone who had a bike between their legs. Well, ok, I have to keep putting in the DNA disclaimer - but he's an a$$, but he hardly represents NE, quite the opposite

Just last week I was riding with Unsprung/Slider, he busted his BB at the top of the first climb, no fix for that! Just as he broke it another group was riding by, I rode with them the rest of the day and had a great time. We gave each other crap for missing stuff and encouraged each other to make stuff.

John (still thinks he's a pretty friendly, if introverted, guy)


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

I think NJ has a good culture... everyone is cool that i have met/ride with, we have a pretty active forum here, we have a lot of active riders that do lots of trail work/advocacy(spelling)...

we may be polluted, but we're pretty nice and like tohave fun


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

(why my post is a little harsh) and what i don't understand is why you need "support" to go ride your bike in the woods...

make friends, ride bikes, real simple... i am even heading to VT (to go ride in NH) this weekend with friends i really barely know.

am i in the loop or in the know? NOPE. is there going to be official sponsorship or a big sense of community? PROBABLY NOT. just a bunch of like minded folks out riding bikes... FUN!


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

Drewdane said:


> Well said, but some of the posts in this thread seem to make it quite clear that "outsiders" are neither welcomed nor given the time of day in NE, unless they use their psychic powers to learn the sooper-dooper secret handshake or some childish crap like that.
> ...snip...
> No disrespect, but I think ours is a much better approach.


Sorry, but this is just a load of crap. There is a reluctance in many areas to post detailed trail descriptions on the 'net, for many reasons (use of private land being the most prominent). This is not unique to New England, in fact there was a big flame war over this tactic (which I support) in New Mexico earlier this year. It has nothing to do with elitism or other such nonsense, it's an issue of protecting access. Show up at my door and I'll show you the goods and provide the beer afterward; I've done it many times already. But don't ask me to put it on the 'net, because some trails are on private land and the landowners don't want the publicity.

There is no secret handshake or any other BS. People cannot be stereotyped in a east vs. west grouping. I've ridden all over the U.S. and diversity abounds, thankfully.


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

radair said:


> Sorry, but this is just a load of crap. There is a reluctance in many areas to post detailed trail descriptions on the 'net, for many reasons (use of private land being the most prominent). This is not unique to New England, in fact there was a big flame war over this tactic (which I support) in New Mexico earlier this year. It has nothing to do with elitism or other such nonsense, it's an issue of protecting access. Show up at my door and I'll show you the goods and provide the beer afterward; I've done it many times already. But don't ask me to put it on the 'net, because some trails are on private land and the landowners don't want the publicity.
> 
> There is no secret handshake or any other BS. People cannot be stereotyped in a east vs. west grouping. I've ridden all over the U.S. and diversity abounds, thankfully.


That's fair, but I should point out that I was referring to the tone of some posts in this thread. Plus, the key words in my post are "some" and "seem". 

I didn't make it clear enough, but what I was envisioning when writing that up (as well as the a$$holes comment I posted further above) were folks who show up looking to ride and are given the cold shoulder by the local "in" crowd. I think that's f*cked up, but I totally see the sense in not providing specific details on the 'net for any rube to find and abuse...


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## Guyechka (Jul 19, 2005)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> the problem of mtb in the NE because it's really not growing much. How often does one see people asking about moving to the NE for the biking compared to elsewhere? I think there was a thread about the best biking places in the US and the pictures. All the replies came from the midwest and western states. Why? I think the biking is good here, but what's the problem? I don't think it's the weather. I know I'm biking more in the winter than in the summer. It doesn't rain all the time like in the NW. So what is it then? Why won't manufacturers explore around here?


It seems to me through all of your posts so far that your concern is manufacturing/shop oriented. Now that you have me thinking about it, I remember how I grew up believing there was a huge NE bike culture. I lived in CO, and the bikes I bought were either made in California or Massachussetts. The local companies were good, but they didn't carry the cachet of Fat Chance or Wojcik--at least that is how it seemed in my eyes. That is, I was under the impression that everyone in NE was out on a fancy handmade bike. Now I'm out here, and I can think of one single shop that carries IF--and that's a 200sq ft hole in the wall in New Haven. In the last three years, I have seen a single Wojcik on the trails. I have never seen a Seven.

My question to you is, Did a larger bike culture exist in NE in the early to mid-nineties? Has there been a significant change in the bike scene in the last decade?


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

I think so. At the end of the ninties, there was a bigger culture, but now it appears that those people have moved elsewhere for better biking, as well as economic reasons.

The bike shop market seems to be shrinking, too. Shops aren't so oriented towards the high end around here and haven't been, for the most part. Even if they are, it's telling that they don't stock much.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

*Travel*



DBomb said:


> Why is it that when I grew up in GA, traveling 2 hours to get somewhere decent (Atlanta) was no big deal. Traveling 5 hours to get to Jekyll Island was just a necessity. Now that I live in CT, traveling more than an hour to go to a race is a pain and a deterrent. Why does living in New England make me so lazy.
> 
> I concur with everyone else that says that our population density plays a huge factor. I remember marvelling at the ease of doing road biking when I visited friends in Bend, OR. I was truly envious of how bikes and cars share the roads there.
> 
> D.


You just hit a big difference between east and west. In CO, people think nothing of driving 100 miles each way to hit a good trail for a day ride. Fruita is 260 miles, Moab is 360 miles and they are weekend jaunts. In the east, if something is 100 miles away people treat it like it is the other side of the universe. The midwest is similar. I grew up in Illinois and in 21 years I never set foot in Indiana 75 miles away. Iowa was 90 miles and I was there once. Wisconsin, 45 miles away, was a major trip.

It is all a matter of attitude. Expand your range, and there is good riding almost everywhere.

As for road riding, quite frankly, the road riding is better east of the Mississippi. There are just more roads there. In CO, if a road is paved, it is almost always heavily travelled. Yes, cars are better at sharing the road, but they have to be, because bikes are everywhere. A 4 mile stretch of road on my commute home is being repaved. They have to do it at night, because of the traffic. If you hit it after 7PM, you have to detour, and the detour adds eight miles to the trip. 12 miles to cover a 4 mile stretch. There just aren't any closer alternate routes.

Bikes are allowed on most Interstates in the west for the same reason. There is often only one route between points, and cars, truck, buses, RVs and everything else all have to share one road.


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## DBomb (May 19, 2004)

Guyechka said:


> Now I'm out here, and I can think of one single shop that carries IF--and that's a 200sq ft hole in the wall in New Haven.


Which store? Devil's Gear or College Street?


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

honkinunit said:


> .


Roads out West are just wider. Urban riding in Seattle feels so much safer than Urban riding in Boston.


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

.........


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## Guyechka (Jul 19, 2005)

DBomb said:


> Which store? Devil's Gear or College Street?


College Street I guess. The one next to the radio station. I can't think of what Devil's Gear carries, but I know they don't usually stock higher end brands. Still, they are my favorite store in the New Haven area. Damned good people!:thumbsup:


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## 9.8m/s/s (Sep 26, 2005)

Guyechka said:


> College Street I guess. The one next to the radio station. I can't think of what Devil's Gear carries, but I know they don't usually stock higher end brands. Still, they are my favorite store in the New Haven area. Damned good people!:thumbsup:


I didn't know CSC had IF products. I'm going riding with Bob, the owner, tommorrow night, I'll confirm that.


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## Guyechka (Jul 19, 2005)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> I think so. At the end of the ninties, there was a bigger culture, but now it appears that those people have moved elsewhere for better biking, as well as economic reasons.
> 
> The bike shop market seems to be shrinking, too. Shops aren't so oriented towards the high end around here and haven't been, for the most part. Even if they are, it's telling that they don't stock much.


This is sort of a chicken or egg dilemma. Did the shops decline first, or did they decline as people left the area?

I can think of two shops within fifteen miles of me that stock higher end gear: Vernon Cycle and Pig Iron. However, they don't stock very much. Vernon Cycle had a single Nomad that someone had ordered through them. They have a few Blurs, a Demo 8 and some Enduros. But their entire stock fits in a space twenty by twenty feet. Compare that to some place like Bicycle Villiage in Boulder, CO, which has bikes stacked two high in an area 100 X 100 feet.

Here is what I believe is a major problem. If you live out west, especially in a place like Boulder, every single person has at least one mt bike. There are a lot of trails in the area, and they are the polar opposite of most of what you find on the east coast. That is, from a single trailhead there is one trail and one trail only. There are no side trails, no trails that loop around and come back on themselves. All trails are very obvious and easy to follow. In other words, it is easy to find a shop with the right bike for you, and it is equally easy to find a trail that is right for you. Once on the trail, it is easy to follow. This makes the whole venture more pleasant.

On the other hand, the east coast trails are serpentine and have dozens of little trails leading off in all directions. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does force you to either explore or get someone who knows the area to lead you around a few times before you feel comfortable. Getting to trailheads is also a little challenging sometimes. Again, it forces you to explore. It takes time, time that could be spent riding. For someone who likes to ride and has been riding for years, this is not such a big deal, and I'm sure that someone is going to tell me this in not such kind words. But imagine it from a new rider (or would be rider) perspective. Finding a place to ride is a challenge. Finding the right trails is a challenge.

So, there are two major differences between east and west: First, it is much easier to obtain the right bike for you in the west. Secondly, it is much, much easier to actually ride in the west. Obviously, this means that more people in the west are going to get hooked on their own, thus perpetuating the culture that already exists.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

I respect that input and viewpoint, but why don't the manufacturers care about the east? I will not name any manufacturers I approached, but there was no interest.


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## 9.8m/s/s (Sep 26, 2005)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> I respect that input and viewpoint, but why don't the manufacturers care about the east? I will not name any manufacturers I approached, but there was no interest.


Who are you? Do you own a shop? Head of a local group of riders? How did you approach them? Why would a manufacturer give you any more than a polite blowoff?

And don't take this wrong, but judging from the overwhelmingly negative attitudes you've shown on this board, if I happened to be a rep, I don't even know if I would have given you that.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

9.8m/s/s said:


> Who are you? Do you own a shop? Head of a local group of riders? How did you approach them? Why would a manufacturer give you any more than a polite blowoff?
> 
> And don't take this wrong, but judging from the overwhelmingly negative attitudes you've shown on this board, if I happened to be a rep, I don't even know if I would have given you that.


"Overwhelming".


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## Guyechka (Jul 19, 2005)

*Sales*

Manufacturers look at regional sales and go where they think there is already enough interest that the turnout will be enormous. Since the east coast bike culture is in the decline, they show no interest.

I was approaching your query from a local bike shop POV, not big manufacturers. But the concept still holds, I believe.


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## hugh088 (Feb 1, 2004)

*We got no culture in RI*



huffin & puffin pete said:


> New England lacking Bike Culture???? Bull ****
> 
> We ask for some help from our small RI community of mtbkers for a cleanup of a management property and over 60 people show (we've got 125 plus RI NEMBA members and I think maybe 250 plus riders in RI).
> 
> ...


I rode with Pete thursday night, we started at 4:30 by leading the 3 State Sheriff Officers on ATV's in Big River looking for the body of a suicide victim. We used the map of the area that Pete made, the state did not have one worth looking at. We dropped them off at an area that had not been searched. We then came across 2 women on mtb's that Pete tried to pick up with his "you should jion NEMBA line". The husband showed up so I had to tactfully get him out of a little social bind. Went back to the parking lot at 6:00 and picked up more people for a total of 14 and rode till dark, a total of 21 miles. Of this maybe 3/4" of a mile was fire road, the rest singletrack. Then hit Rosie's for burggers and Guiness. If someone were to suggest that we are lacking in culture I would have to agree, not one of the 14 people was listening to clasical music on an IPOD as they rode. Gee, not 1 of them had an IPOD. Too busy riding and having fun. 
Chris


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## PDB (May 16, 2006)

Just wanted to put my 2cents in - 
I've never lived on the East Coast (used to live in chicago and now in Boulder) - but I used to take Lots of trips out east for epic rides, DH races, and singletrack hunts. After having lived in Boulder for a while - I do appreciate the very long riding season and more mild weather. 
The riding out there is a whole different ball game - steeper geometry is welcome many times, due to the tech nature of the rides, they actually have real dirt and real roots, and the forests are much more dense. This makes the riding a lot more fun!
In retrospect of my east coast days, I have to give some serious props to the east coast riders - they are definetly more hard-core than 90% of the west coast riders. They are more dedicated to the sport (they have to be - they aren't spoiled like me!). I love living in Colorado - but in my opinion, the east coast has the best riding in the states! and it's because if the riders, the trail builders, support system, and dedication of the most die hard riders!


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## Rooster (May 7, 2004)

So, me and my clicke were in the parking lot yesterday getting ready to ride, when this uppity prick from Seattle drives up and asks where the good single track was. We're like, "Who's this dick-weed?" and ignored him. I mean really, these tourists, or whatever he was, think they can just come up to you and expect to be taken in and given a guided tour? And you should've seen him, he's wearing cut-off shorts, a cotton T-shirt, and has platform peddles!!! What a dork! If things are so great out west, why the hell is he over here anways? His kind need to learn to mind their own business and PISS OFF!

Well, that's not exactly what happened. The guy asked my friend while he was at the gas station where to find some good riding. Without hesitation, he's offered to join us for our ride. I don't want to speak for him, but from what I saw, he had a great time riding with the 6 of us and he's on our e-mail list with an open invitation to come back and ride any time he wants. Oh, and for the record, the cut-off-shorts-T-shirt-wearing-platform-peddle-using-Seattler kicked my @ss on the trail and I'm glad to have him aboard.

The only thing I don't understand about the guy is why he was so polite, cheerful, and nice to be around.......kind of gives me the creeps being around people like that *kidding*


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I think a LOT of it has to do with the basic mentality of folks in the eastern part of the country. I grew up in Indiana, and found folks to be pretty welcoming in that general region (IN, OH, MI), where I started riding. I spent a good bit of time out west (S. UT) and found folks there to be pretty welcoming, too. Anytime I met someone who also rode, they invited me on a ride. Then, I moved to Pittsburgh. It's not really northeast yet, but it's a good illustration of a trend from the friendlier folks out west to the more closed off northeastern populations. It seems that here in Pgh, the ride groups are very long-established and don't take really well to new people...especially if you're not familiar with the area. I've pretty much given up on participating in any of the 'culture' here, and I only ride either by myself or with my wife. I long for the day that I have the opportunity to move west of here into friendlier territory.


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## jakazz (Feb 15, 2006)

*east coast just takes a little more work*

Im not sure but I think that east coast is more attitude, not so much as cali, but still. The access issue is there and that def. is an issue. I think it has to do with the socio-economic issues at hand. Working on the east is a cut throat enviroment. You dont see to many companies with fitness, and bike lunches. Out west is a different attitude, more laid back. I have lived on the east coast most of my life, learned mtb in the late eighties. I think the "culture " has actually gotten better with the advent of the net. Being out of the loop for about 5 years, work and a mortgage, and coming back into it I found alot more people that I would normally not have met. We " easties" are not as extroverted as the rocky mtn. states are. Hey thats the ma. way. They dont call us ma**holes for nothing. When u say bike culture, well I have to disagree with the points, a**holes come in all colors and flavors, u cant base ur opinions on them. The nemba org. does some amazing things, I didn't know squat about them till just this year, and will miss riding with the people I have have met since getting back into it here,....but I'm still leaving to go back to co. sorry........

but I'm not leaving because of the bike culture, I'm leaving because I love the country out there. Granted I'm going to miss the "green" forests, maybe not so much the roots though .

and to the previous post about boulder and the fake niceties, well boulder is a pit, nice to visit, but overpriced and turning into a yuppie pit. Granted I love the bar scene there, alot of the people there are great. But it sems to be getting a little pretensious, (sp) since I was was living there 10 years ago. but thats my opinion and some will say I'm wrong, its just my observation.

Oh and people are actually generally nicer out there, when ur surrounded with such immense and stunning beauty how can u not be smiling all the time:thumbsup:

rant over, flame away:thumbsup:


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## Guyechka (Jul 19, 2005)

9.8m/s/s said:


> I didn't know CSC had IF products. I'm going riding with Bob, the owner, tommorrow night, I'll confirm that.


I could very well be wrong. I was walking by one evening and happened to see an IF in a stand, but I realize that doesn't necessarily mean they carry IF.


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## safety guy (Jul 22, 2004)

I will sum up the attittude that myself and friends that I ride with here in the Portland area of Maine "shut up and ride" There is no "in" crowd. Anyone can ride with us...as long as you dont mind have a safety meeting or 2 during the ride, if that bothers you, then you are better off finding another group to ride with. We make jokes, laugh when someone falls in a puddle, give each other a whole bunch of ****...generally stuff that may be construed as mean..

Have you ever thought it may be something you are doing? Maybe you have an elitist attitude being form the west? 

I ride with people from all over NE. depending on what forums I am visiting. 

To Brianc "wahh no asked me about my shirt so I could plug my merchandise" 

If you want to learn trails search the forums, there are 2 or 3 that handle all of the NE, and show up for a group ride. I have never been shunned even when I didnt know anyone...but then again **** em if they did shun me there are others. As far as not wanting to hear you life story, its because we have 9 months of cold weather and we are used to hurrying in out of the cold.


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## mud'n'sweat (Feb 16, 2006)

RetroG said:


> Head down the Appalachians thru WV, VA and NC. Get "cultured".


Yep! I live in VA in the Blue Ridge range and it is like mecca here. I have thousands and thousands of miles of single track within a 2 hour drive of my home.


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## RetroG (Jan 16, 2004)

*Road Trip!!!*



radair said:


> Show up at my door and I'll show you the goods and provide the beer afterward.


If I can road trip it up to NE, hook up with SuperbMan, Rooster and radair, I'll stay f-ed up and sample some new trail, what with all the free beer!! 
I believe Superb hit it on the head. 
Out West, you find yourself landing smack dab into bike culture, like Fruita. Over here on the Right Coast, you've got to seek it out. The a-hole factor is much larger in the East. If you've tripped out West, that feeling you get when you're plane lands back East, the type of people on the plane....that's what I'm talking about. There's a difference for sure.


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## RetroG (Jan 16, 2004)

safety guy said:


> as long as you dont mind have a safety meeting or 2 during the ride, .


Safety First!!


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

RetroG said:


> The a-hole factor is much larger in the East. If you've tripped out West, that feeling you get when you're plane lands back East, the type of people on the plane....that's what I'm talking about. There's a difference for sure.


 Man true that! My wife and I joke you can tell you're getting closer to the east coast when you gradually make your connecting flights and people start getting fat and mean. After a trip somewhere, when we touch back down in D-town, we are as happy as when we left for vacation.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

you have got to be retarded, over 30 DH races this in the east coast this seaon, makes the west coast look dead in DH racing terms


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Anyone ever see the Boston Bike Show? Any good?


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## Don Juan (May 28, 2006)

vpjackal989 said:


> you have got to be retarded, over 30 DH races this in the east coast this seaon, makes the west coast look dead in DH racing terms


Well, you certainly don't sound retarded.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

vpjackal989 said:


> you have got to be retarded, over 30 DH races this in the east coast this seaon, makes the west coast look dead in DH racing terms


Apparently the only people that ride on the East Coast are Dh racers, so we're doing pretty good, considering there is no XC our here 

Very telling about the way of biking out here.


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## Plummit (Jan 14, 2004)

*Sounds like...*

You need to look up the definition of "culture." You don't need huge shops w/ mail order prices, organized festivals w/ industry support, or internet sites w/ detailed maps of all the trails in an area to have "culture." That's just one way of doing it. Lived out west in CO for six or seven years before moving back east. Love 'em both. One thing about the west is that the mountains, the trails, and the amazing geography are all beautiful and huge in "an in your face" sort of way. In some spots, it's hard to turn around without tripping over another amazing vista or mountain peak.

You have to look a little harder in the east, pay a little closer attention, and realize that things here might just work on a smaller scale and in a different way. When you've done that, you might just find you really dig what you've found... Technical rocky, rooty, nasty trails with hidden wonders tucked in the most curious of places...Riding in the white and green mtns of NH and VT, The trails tucked away in ME, CT, RI, and MA...New mountains opening up lift served access for the gravity set...A trails advocacy group that bought it's own parcel of land to preserve some great trails and protect them from development.... Not to mention a great crew of locals that are always up for a ride, a brew, and few laughs....

No disrespect intended, but sounds like you owe it to yourself to dig a little deeper.

BTW, completely disagree w/ your assessment of the quality of shops.. Where I live, I'm blessed with no fewer than eight kind shops carrying high end mtn, road, and cyclocross rigs... all within approx 20 mins drive from my front door. The closest is about a five minute bike ride......


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## benja55 (Aug 10, 2005)

*The East Coast Kulture is STRONG...*

It just manifests itself in less obvious ways.

I mean shitt, just look at the wannabe messenger culture that has sprouted in SF, Seattle, Porland etc. That was NYC in the 80's! The East Coast contributes plenty of bike culture, it just doesn't make such a big deal about it.

See this thread for fun details .


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Apparently the only people that ride on the East Coast are Dh racers, so we're doing pretty good, considering there is no XC our here
> 
> Very telling about the way of biking out here.


east coast rules


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## brianc (Jan 13, 2004)

safety guy said:


> To Brianc "wahh no asked me about my shirt so I could plug my merchandise"


I think you completely missed my point with that story. :thumbsup:


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## mtbdee (Jan 31, 2005)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Anyone ever see the Boston Bike Show? Any good?


Yep - like anything else it can be good or bad depending on when you go/who you go with.

Can someone accurately define just wtf "bike culture" is exactly?

Are we simply elitist, angry souls lost in this neck of the woods without an overriding "culture" with which to belong to, and define our lives by? How do we get by with only Pedro'sfest, NEMBAFEST, Root66, EFTA, Dh racing, trials playgrounds everywhere (so it seems), local NEMBA chapters - which is what the model is about, the MBAS rides, NEMBA fun rides, EFTA fun rides, Norba Nationals, Cyclocross Nationals in Providence, ANT, Seven, IF, Circle A, Sinister, Wojcik, Hot Tubes, Level Components, Richard Sachs etc, etc... (RIP: Fat, Merlin & Spooky) 

Just because life in NE isn't always pretty, is expensive as hell, and can be truly hectic, doesn't mean you can't find folks to share those precious few moments you can break away from your life and ride. Do I wish my riding life was better, sure. I wish that everyone that rode bikes in my state was better connected, and there wasn't any cliquish BS at all. But you know what? People that won't invite you to ride with them, or are simply schmucks, really aren't worth your time are they? I have a sneaky feeling there are elitist a$$holes on bikes everywhere, but I could be wrong I guess....


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## KevinM[Freerider] (Aug 12, 2005)

you obviously are a forum nerd. get out and do some races (theres tons, on things called mountains) and do some events. you get to know people quick. if you went to shawnee peak 2006, you would know that the east coast is insane. we rip in the snow better than most west coasters rip in their little sand pits.


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## KevinM[Freerider] (Aug 12, 2005)

edit: i take that back, west coast riders rip. they ride all year. but you get the point.


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

KevinM[Freerider] said:


> you obviously are a forum nerd. get out and do some races (theres tons, on things called mountains) and do some events. you get to know people quick. if you went to shawnee peak 2006, you would know that the east coast is insane. we rip in the snow better than most west coasters rip in their little sand pits.


 Duuuude, r u a freeryder?


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## CTNEMBA (Jun 13, 2006)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> ...This is why I singled out the WMBA guys in Upstate NY. They're fun to ride with, ride with everyone, regardless of how XC or how burly the bike might be. They play out there and show people around. The sad fact is they are a small group in a small territory with surrounding groups and regions comprised of elitist organizations. It's these elitists that are partly responsible for the lack of mtb growth in the NE.


Have you ridden with any of the dudes from Crankfire.com? Same type of people as WMBA.org. Not to mention there is alot of Cross Polination (WMBA rides in CT/CF rides in NY) going on all the time.


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## Gimpy00Wang (Jan 23, 2006)

aixelsyd said:


> We have Pedros fest...


Speaking of Pedro's Fest...who's going?!? I'm getting really excited as it's usually a blast!

- Chris


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

Guyechka said:


> If you live out west, especially in a place like Boulder... There are a lot of trails in the area, and they are the polar opposite of most of what you find on the east coast. That is, from a single trailhead there is one trail and one trail only. There are no side trails, no trails that loop around and come back on themselves.
> 
> .


 Really? I guess if you are talking about the city of Boulder.


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## KevinM[Freerider] (Aug 12, 2005)

jugdish said:


> Duuuude, r u a freeryder?


i wouldnt call myself a freerider because if ur just a "freerider" there isnt TOO much skill inviolved..but if your asking if I can freeride, yea, I can go pretty damn big. But i like to work on my skills all around, like dh racing and competing, urban riding, some hucks every now and then but they get pretty boring sometimes. But i should be building up a freeride bike soon to hit up highland with (prob gonna be a hardtail). I made my username a long time ago when i used to do just drops and stuff, i was younger and not as knowledgable about things.


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## DHbiker (Apr 23, 2004)

Righht Coasst Ruleez


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## Trail_Mynx (Mar 6, 2006)

Jisch said:


> Lynn is maybe 2 hours away, if you live close to Case. You really should go there, its an amazing place to ride (see below).
> 
> NEMBA trail work gets done where people set up trail work. If you get involved, and get the CT trail maintenance coordinator involved, you can have a trail day just about anywhere.
> 
> ...


I totally agree on the 15 miles of tech = 30 miles of smooth... NE has its great spots and yes it is more of the little cliques rather than a biking "community". I have a group of people that I ride with but usually it is just one of them and me riding. One of the LBS in my area has a weekly night ride on Tuesdays that is pretty fun. We usually cover around 10+ miles on those rides.

I usually drive anywhere from 5 min to over an hour to get to the good trails. It really depends on what type of riding I feel like doing that day. Great Brook Farm in Carlisle has some nice trails, as does Callahan State Park in Framingham. I have a few local trails that are pretty sweet as well. I went on an epic ride this weekend at Yawgoo. At least half the trail was hike-a-bike, but the scenery and the awesome swimming made it all worth while!!!

I would totally dedicate a day to trail maintenance...sign me up...here's me volunteering!!! I live in the Northeastern part of CT...about 30 min from Worcester, MA, 40 from Manchester, CT and about 30 min from Essex, RI So...if anyone wants some help building or cleaning up some trails, give me a shout. I'd be more than happy to help..and I could probably recruit some others as well  Also, if ya need someone to drag along on a ride...again get a hold of me!

Mynx


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## Jwind (Mar 1, 2006)

Dwight Moody said:


> Roads out West are just wider. Urban riding in Seattle feels so much safer than Urban riding in Boston.


yuppers, that ones for sure.... That's b/c the EC is acienct compared to the urban sprawls of the west.

I've split the last 10 years of my life between Colorado and Maine. The whole East Coast attitude thing is ridiculous. Sure you'll get some NY or Beantown tough guys but for the most part folks are quite friendly in the NE. I might add, I find Mainers far more friendly than Westerners.

BTW, I consider the Portland ME bike culture to be thriving, and I came from Durango.


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## "Z" (Sep 5, 2005)

*What do you mean by culture?*

I am finding this thread really interesting! So many wildly different insights.

I agree with a bunch of what's been written. But I don't agree with Jerked_Chicken's premise that the northeast doesn't have a bike culture. I guess I'd ask: what do you mean by "bike culture"?

(And when you say West, are you talking about big cities, or are you talking destinations like Sedona, Moab, Whistler, etc.?)

I recently moved from New England to California, and I miss the bike culture back in Boston. So many fun events, hundreds of people that I've gotten to know and ride with, and such a sense of community that I left behind...

Not that it sucks here! I'm just surprised that someone would ding the east for lack of bike culture, when it seemed so great to me. Maybe it's not a fair comparison, cuz I had been riding there for over 15 years and I don't know any different. I might need to give it time here.

Z


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## Tyrus (Jun 14, 2006)

I think really what it mostly boils down to is, when you are new someplace, it always seems a bit less friendly, a bit less easy to find the trails and friendships you are used to. I would however say that some areas might be easier to find that in than others, but that is how the area is in all respects, I think, not just biking. A lot of the east coast in general is a fa paced, hard to live in area where the majority of the people have to adopt, or at least suffer through a go go go, hurry up and wait mentality, which is framed from high rentals and property prices in cities that are on average 200 years old, high expectations, not as high salaries compared to cost of living, and a lot of feeling stuck, or been here for generations mentality. 

That said, in general, you move any amount west, and you tend to get a more open mindset, laid back a bit, generally closer income to cost of living ratios, and a sense that those there have not been rooted there for quite so many generations, so there still is a bit of open acceptance of newcomers, and ideas. Also, I think the greater amount of open space, or at least percieved open space helps shape the attitude. 

It's very much like the difference between any country setting vs. any city setting, the pace of life and closeting or openess of mind changes accordingly.


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## spartacus (Aug 2, 2004)

On Long Island there is a lot of bickering going on. We debate was is politically correct. Bickering between styles of riding. Many style of riders do not get along. A lot of the XC guys can not get along with the FR guys and there is constant disagreements.

http://www.visionmtb.com/forumvb/showthread.php?p=106556#post106556

This thread is an example of the BS going on.

Then we have a posting forum for MTBing and a MTB org (which also has a posting forum) and it it seems that some want to keep the 2 seperated. The funny part is the people who want to keep the 2 seperated frequent both.

I check out 2 other forums on a regular basis (WMBA......which is in the north east... and OMBA.......Which is in fla) and they seem to have there crap together. It makes me boil when I see this. I do not understand why CLIMB and VISION can not be this way.

IMHO I think its a power struggle on who owns the trails.


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