# 1987 Bridgestone MB-1 Drop Bars!



## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

We sold a bunch of these back in the day. What a hot bike.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

*frames dropped 1 lb.*

top tubes have grown a lot.
tange prestige 19in = 5lbs. and that's a top of line steel. 
nowadays it's common on high end steel frame, a weigh of 3.7 lbs...


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

*funny*

rivendell swears by 72º seat angles and 17+ chainstays... i would trust the older grant better.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

colker1 said:


> rivendell swears by 72º seat angles and 17+ chainstays... i would trust the older grant better.


Which came first? Long seat stays or slack seat angles? A slacker seat angle makes sense if you have long stays - gets your weight positioned better in relation to the rear wheel for better climbing traction.

It's funny, while I was looking over old magazines, I ran across a review for a custom Salsa by Hank Barlow (what's he up to these days?) that mentioned if he had been okay with a 1.5" max rear tire, he could have gone to sub-17" stays. My how things have changed when you can fit a 2.35 into a 16.75" chainstay - hardtail w/non-elevated chainstays!

Regarding the weight - remember, that's with a full set of lugs. Tig welding led to an immediate weight reduction.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Very cool. You gotta hand it to them for thinking. So many clones, so many just interested in following fads. Ive always liked Bridgestone's ways.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*WOW that stem is high and short!*

I would be afraid to ride it with that steering configutation. That frame needs a 90deg stem and about 25-35mm more reach.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Shayne said:


> I would be afraid to ride it with that steering configutation. That frame needs a 90deg stem and about 25-35mm more reach.


We changed many a stem on these bikes to custom Salsa stems or the Specilaized stem that was similar but longer - well, like this one. I always wanted one of these or an XO-0, but even the largest size was too short for me.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*That makes me feel better*



ssmike said:


> We changed many a stem on these bikes to custom Salsa stems or the Specilaized stem that was similar but longer - well, like this one. I always wanted one of these or an XO-0, but even the largest size was too short for me.


To ride it like that would have given super twitchey (sp?) steering

And I was thinking a Salsa stem would look great on there!


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

ssmike said:


> We sold a bunch of these back in the day. What a hot bike.


Great post!!!

That bike is so out of character for the time, yet 5 years later that bike was the "norm" - minus the drop bars. It makes you question Grant's "retro-grouch" title.

It's cool that he mentions other bay area builders in the catalog, giving them credit.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

To me it doesnt look that much different position-wise than a LD stem. If you look at that side shot and transpose where a standard stem and h-bar would put your hands it is not that different from where you would be on those drops. 

Thats the thing about drop bars off road, youve gotta have a high short stem because the drop bars, well, drop and extend from the stem clamping point negating the need for a low, long stem....

To me it doesnt look like its a weird setup at all. It WOULD be weird to descend on the tops of those bars, but not while in the drops. Its pretty close to identical positioning if it had a standard MTB stem and flat bars.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> To me it doesnt look like its a weird setup at all. It WOULD be weird to descend on the tops of those bars, but not while in the drops. Its pretty close to identical positioning if it had a standard MTB stem and flat bars.


Top mount levers (a la CX bikes) makes descending on the tops much easier. I installed a pair last year and it makes riding drop bars off-raod so much easier. The trouble with the drops is that it puts you lower and further forward - neither of which are good for descending. On the tops it's easy to get behind the saddle, and still control the bike.

For racing it's not that big of a deal. However if you're doing a 2-3 mile off-road downhill (or longer) the tops with brake levers is nice.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Yes, true, a cross bike really needs those because they dont have a high short stem. The stems they use put a lot of weight up front. Having the levers on the tops puts your weight farther back. Its harder to bunny hop in the drops because theyre so low.

The idea of the LD and the MB1 stem (short and high) is to make the drops good for descending. Or to put the drops in a position similar to where flat bars would put you for good weight distribution.........Atleast thats my take on it.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Shayne said:


> I would be afraid to ride it with that steering configutation. That frame needs a 90deg stem and about 25-35mm more reach.


That stem cant be too far off from the rise and reach seen on this bike. Now of course, using this stem with flat bars would be weird!! It would most likely be twitchy like you said.


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## tube_ee (Feb 1, 2004)

Shayne said:


> I would be afraid to ride it with that steering configutation. That frame needs a 90deg stem and about 25-35mm more reach.


For an off-road drop bar, it would seem to make sense to put the drops about where bar-ends would be on a flat-bar bike. This way, you get the part of the bar that gives you the most control in the most natural position, and save the tops for sustained, seated climbing or double-track cruising. Out-of-the saddle honking would then be done in the drops.

--Shannon, who thinks that '87 MB-1 would make a killer SS, in
San Diego, CA


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## tube_ee (Feb 1, 2004)

colker1 said:


> rivendell swears by 72º seat angles and 17+ chainstays... i would trust the older grant better.


But Rivendell only makes road bikes, for non-racer types. Different bikes, different needs, different geometry. There are a few people using the Atlantis as a 29" MTB, and I've heard no complaints, even though it's a touring bike, with clearance for 700Cx2.1" tires.

--Shannon


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

tube_ee said:


> But Rivendell only makes road bikes, for non-racer types. Different bikes, different needs, different geometry. There are a few people using the Atlantis as a 29" MTB, and I've heard no complaints, even though it's a touring bike, with clearance for 700Cx2.1" tires.


I saw a guy on a Rivendell cyclocross bike (All Arounder maybe?) this past weekend at a MTB race. He seemed fast enough on that bike - faster than me anyway (not that that is any real accomplishment).


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## cursivearmy (Jan 26, 2004)

*Nice Cunningham!*

hey FB,

is that your Cunningham! what a sweet high polish, most arent' that polished.
anyway, nice looking rig, i can't wait to get one, as long as it takes.

you sure have some nice rigs, you should post them all, i for one would love to see'm all.

over and out
nate


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*I would swap that stem out in a second*

Nice frame and fork though!

I could never ride it that way. I do not ride in the drops of drop bars more than 15% of the time, nor do I know anybody that does. I set up my drop bars so they are at about the same level on top and 5-10mm closer to me than a standard flat bar. I spend probably 75% of the time on the brake hoods and this puts me in a slighlty more outstreached position just like on the road.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Here's how I run drops*

Bike with flat bars and 125mm stem.
Bike with drop bars and 115mm stem.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Here's the position of my flat bar bike and drop bar bike. All descending in the drops, fast flat sections in the drops. Meandering up top. 

Nice carbon Future Shock!


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

ssmike said:


> Here's the position of my flat bar bike and drop bar bike. All descending in the drops, fast flat sections in the drops. Meandering up top.
> 
> Nice carbon Future Shock!


Yes, if you ride serious off road you have to use the drops for desending/technical riding. The hoods or tops just dont cut it for hard/fast/rough riding. The drops have to be up higher than road positioning to make this work. Of course if you live in the midwest where its more or less flat (never been there besides Traverse City, MI) you could get away this I would guess. Or maybe if youve got super long arms! Bottom line is youve gotta be able to "unweight" the front wheel on fast/rough/steep stuff.

Dont get me wrong, you could ride a bike off road with a low long stem with drops, youre just gonna find that you get scared more!


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Yes, if you ride serious off road you have to use the drops for desending/technical riding. The hoods or tops just dont cut it for hard/fast/rough riding. The drops have to be up higher than road positioning to make this work. Of course if you live in the midwest where its more or less flat (never been there besides Traverse City, MI) you could get away this I would guess. Or maybe if youve got super long arms! Bottom line is youve gotta be able to "unweight" the front wheel on fast/rough/steep stuff.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, you could ride a bike off road with a low long stem with drops, youre just gonna find that you get scared more!


The picture was supposed to be worth 1,000 words showing that the stem for drops should be taller with the drop position about the same as the flat position. But I think you got it.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

ssmike said:


> The picture was supposed to be worth 1,000 words showing that the stem for drops should be taller with the drop position about the same as the flat position. But I think you got it.


Yes, got it. The picture was perfect. I was actually responding to Shane? I think it was.....


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

No, not mine!! I wish. Ive got two C-ham owners Im working on right now. I need a bigger pry bar to get them out of their hands. Someday.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Well its personal preference really....*

I get your point. I was just stating how I use drop bars. There is no way I could ride those bikes with the upright bars. Yes I do live in the midwest in "glacier counrty" where there are very steep climbs and decents although not sustained. I have ridden in Italy and southern Germany however.

Basically I ride with that setup because I began off roading on my road bike. Nothing teaches bike handling like negotiating tight singletrack or decending on 700x23 tires at 120psi! LOL


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

I agree, a road bike off road is fun. They can do much more than most people are willing to put them through!! On rough stuff everything feels twice as fast and it keeps your eyes busy scanning thats for sure! Tough to keep up with your buddies though! But youre right, it does teach great line-picking/riding light skills.

On a related note, I think more people would ride the drops more if their bars were higher. I think thats the exact reason they arent used very much. They are just so comfy when your knees arent banging your chest. Just my 2 cents.


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## cursivearmy (Jan 26, 2004)

*Thats the whole idea!*



Shayne said:


> Nice frame and fork though!
> 
> I could never ride it that way. I do not ride in the drops of drop bars more than 15% of the time, nor do I know anybody that does. I set up my drop bars so they are at about the same level on top and 5-10mm closer to me than a standard flat bar. I spend probably 75% of the time on the brake hoods and this puts me in a slighlty more outstreached position just like on the road.


I could never ride a set of drops like your specialized, too low, for me.

the whole idea behind OFF-ROAD drop bars like the WTB's is to be in the drops, like on mike's ibis and the Cunningham. contrary to belief, with an LD stem, the steering isn't twitchy and you can climb and descend like a machine. i think a lot of people just have a problem with how the stem looks, but the whole purpose of that stem is to get the drops in the ultimate position for off road.

over and out
nate


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I agree, a road bike off road is fun. They can do much more than most people are willing to put them through!! On rough stuff everything feels twice as fast and it keeps your eyes busy scanning thats for sure! Tough to keep up with your buddies though! But youre right, it does teach great line-picking/riding light skills.
> 
> On a related note, I think more people would ride the drops more if their bars were higher. I think thats the exact reason they arent used very much. They are just so comfy when your knees arent banging your chest. Just my 2 cents.


Funny thing about drop bars. If the rider has no pre-conceived notions about what "makes" a mountain bike, they do great with drops. Years ago, we were contacted by someone from Rolling Stone magazine. A bunch of their advertising staff was on a "retreat" in San Diego and wanted to go for a mountain bike ride. Well, we rounded up all our friend's bikes (for some strange reason there happened to be a lot of drop bar mountain bikes, hmmm). Anyway, these people had never ridden a mountain bike - and maybe had ridden a road bike (or touring bike as they were called). So, they all (men and women) hopped on and had a great time riding their mountain bikes. Can of corn.


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## tube_ee (Feb 1, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> I saw a guy on a Rivendell cyclocross bike (All Arounder maybe?) this past weekend at a MTB race. He seemed fast enough on that bike - faster than me anyway (not that that is any real accomplishment).


Where was your race? If you're in the Bay Area, both Mark and Pineapple Bob (yes, THAT Pineapple Bob) from Riv race 'cross, and both ride custom Rivs. They work there, so I assume they get the hook-up. <grin>

The All-Rounder was a pre-custom Rivendell, when they were made in stock sizes by Waterford, using Grant's designs and proprietary lugs. All-Rounders were pretty much a super-nice version of the Bridgestone XO-1, basically a semi-relaxed road bike with 26" mtb wheels. This is the way hybrids should have been done from the beginning, but weren't, because the category was created to avoid import duties on 26" wheeled bikes. They'll still build you one, only now they're all full custom, and a frame is $2500. I think the Atlantis frame is about $1300. Smaller sizes come 26", larger ones 700C, both will take 2.1" tires.

Mine will be a 700C, and will only take a 40 mm tire, because that's as much clearance as Grant could give me without flaring the chainstays. I much prefer the look of straight stays. This only rules out the most hugest of tires, so I didn't feel like I was giving much of anything up. It'll be a hoot to watch the reactions on the local trails, when I'm riding by on a $4k custom steel road bike. Given how slow I am, that'll be my only chance to earn "cool points".

But man, the wait is killin' me.

--Shannon, impatiently waiting in
San Diego, CA


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

tube_ee said:


> Where was your race? If you're in the Bay Area, both Mark and Pineapple Bob (yes, THAT Pineapple Bob) from Riv race 'cross, and both ride custom Rivs. They work there, so I assume they get the hook-up. <grin>
> 
> Mine will be a 700C, and will only take a 40 mm tire, because that's as much clearance as Grant could give me without flaring the chainstays. I much prefer the look of straight stays. This only rules out the most hugest of tires, so I didn't feel like I was giving much of anything up. It'll be a hoot to watch the reactions on the local trails, when I'm riding by on a $4k custom steel road bike. Given how slow I am, that'll be my only chance to earn "cool points".


The race was at Fort Ord near Monterey - http://www.cccx.org - also very close to the Sea Otter course. It was a MTB race, but it was certainly rideable on a 'cross bike, which several people did.

40mm tires on a 'cross bike is plenty. I have two CXers, a Ritchey and a Bontrager. The Ritchey currently has 38mm knobbies on it, and they fit, but require letting air out of the tires to remove the wheels (they stick on the brake arms). The Bontrager has limited rear clearance, and is probably limited to 35mm - I've put the 38mm tires on, but there is less than a mm of space between the tires and stays, so mud and out of true wheels will cause problems.

The 38mm tires are great for bombing down trails, but are noticably heavier when climbing compared to 32mm, which is what I normally run. Unless I'm trying to keep up with MTBs downhill, the 32s seem to work fine for me.


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