# Where are the Fast Chargers?



## Jason_MTB (Nov 17, 2020)

Keep in mind I'm coming from the Radio Controlled aircraft world and we have a ton of options for chargers and I can fast charge batteries from empty to full in 15 minutes if I want. A 1C charge rate that takes an hour is relatively slow. 

I've got a Fezzari Wire Peak with the Shimano EP8, 504WH battery and I absolutely love it. The charger it comes with takes 3-5 hours from empty to full, which is painfully slow when you want to take a quick lunch break, charge it up and get back out on the trail. I'd settle for a 1C (1 hour) charge rate, but haven't seen any 3rd party chargers that output more than stock. Do these exist? If not, why?


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

There are third party chargers that will go up to 10A but only for open source battery types, like for the non BMS controlled LiPo batts you are using for your RC aircraft. Shimano, Brose, Bosch, Yamaha all use proprietary firmware and software that only allows you to use their chargers and batteries. Bosch makes a 6A charger that I know of but I would say that all the others err on the side of lower A charge rates. Longer battery life and I suppose less chance of catastrophic failure while you are eating your burger may be their reasoning?

This is the charger I am able to use: Satiator, Standard Model (8A max) which has a fast charge of 8A which I only use once in awhile and mainly @4A.


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## Jason_MTB (Nov 17, 2020)

Thanks, makes sense. Looks like the best available solution for now is to get a 2nd battery.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Yeah that seems to be the best way to go. I just got a 780wh one for my bike but it cost, including shipping, about half of what the 630wh Shimano one does @ $889.99 cause my integral battery is non proprietary and was able to get one manufacturer direct from Asia. I have to say if someone took the time to jail break the manufacturers battery BMS codes they could make bank selling grey market batteries. It is my experience after buying eBike batteries for the last 6 yrs. that the price per wh is going down and quality is going up which is unusual in todays bike market.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

Bigwheel said:


> It is my experience after buying eBike batteries for the last 6 yrs. that the price per wh is going down and quality is going up which is unusual in todays bike market.


Shhh… don’t say that out loud. Lol.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Take a look at the Meanwells
If you want stationary the RSP
If you want portable the LED

So it all depends on the kind of outlet you have, is it 120v(ac) and 15a outlet?
Once you know what you are using for an outlet, then anythings possible.

RSP-1500 is 1500w with an input of 17A/115VAC, dc rates are 43-56v at 32a - needs a special outlet rated at 20a or higher.
RSP-1000 is 1000w with an input of 12A/115VAC, dc rates are 43-55v at 21a - most common outlets are 15a, so 12a is a nice buffer.

of course the RSP series goes on up to 3000w 43 ~ 56V @ 62a with 20A/180VAC 16A/230VAC
and the funny thing is, you could probably parallel them - well look at this ---> Active current sharing up to 9000W (2+1)

OK other sources
www.ebikes.ca has the Satiator, your techno-savvy 24-60v 8a charger. So charge amps not impressive but everything else about the charger is pretty cool.

iChargers - Pretty impressive for its segment.

I dont know about BMS Battery chargers but some like them, I dont see how they stand out.

Luna Cycle might have some of the normal 8a charger.

Charging can be different if you have a 36v 10ah battery because you can only dump so much power into the battery that size.
Now, if you have a 36v 50ah battery then you can dump 5x as much power into 50ah battery.
Say your 10ah battery can take 10a charge rate, your 50ah can take a 50a charge. If those cells are designed for that. Some can take more, some can take less, but it would also depend on the batteries bms so there is that to. If your 50ah bms can only take a 10a charge then a 50a charger wont do.








__





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---------------------------------------------------> So it is all a matter of what your battery can handle.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Jason_MTB said:


> Keep in mind I'm coming from the Radio Controlled aircraft world and we have a ton of options for chargers and I can fast charge batteries from empty to full in 15 minutes if I want. A 1C charge rate that takes an hour is relatively slow.
> 
> I've got a Fezzari Wire Peak with the Shimano EP8, 504WH battery and I absolutely love it. The charger it comes with takes 3-5 hours from empty to full, which is painfully slow when you want to take a quick lunch break, charge it up and get back out on the trail. I'd settle for a 1C (1 hour) charge rate, but haven't seen any 3rd party chargers that output more than stock. Do these exist? If not, why?



Fast charging is difficult to do on these big, 700wh batteries. And it is quite stressful for the batteries and there are more risks involved.

But the main issue is it's not a demand right now. Few want this since 'overnight charging' is the norm and is very easy to do. Those that want big range either go for a 700+wh battery or buy an extra battery and swap mid-ride. Besides, finding a very powerful AC source near the trail is not too available at the moment.

fc


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## Jason_MTB (Nov 17, 2020)

Yeah I’m going to end up getting a 2nd battery. 1C charge rate isn’t stressful though would go a long way for topping batteries up from your car with an inverter while you eat lunch. I’m very surprised there isn’t more demand for this and even more surprised that a 1C rate isn’t the standard as that’s slow enough already. We’re like 15 years behind the times with these 4-5 hour charge rates.


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## REZEN (Aug 7, 2020)

I tend to do shuttle rides for big days rather than big climbs hence being a Kenevo SL owner. IF needed, though rather rare, I can charge partially or fully on the way up as I installed a bigger alternator, second battery and 1000w PSU into my 4runner.

Otherwise really I would rather just call it a day than getting back to a vehicle/location and charge. 

For commuter bikes/doing a cross the USA ride, I could see wanting fast charging using the Tesla network ;-)


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Fast charging is difficult to do on these big, 700wh batteries. And it is quite stressful for the batteries and there are more risks involved.
> 
> But the main issue is it's not a demand right now. Few want this since 'overnight charging' is the norm and is very easy to do. Those that want big range either go for a 700+wh battery or buy an extra battery and swap mid-ride. Besides, finding a very powerful AC source near the trail is not too available at the moment.
> 
> fc


Up to 1C has no negative effect on the batteries. There is Zero reason that we shouldn't have 1 hour charging. On a 700 it would be 20 amps. A wall plug can handle the load easily too. 

Max voltage on a Levo is 42v, basically 1/3 wall voltage. Even with losses the charging current is less than half the draw current. 20amp 1C charge is sub 10amps from the plug.

Storing your battery fully charged does 10X the damage that 1C charging does.

It's only when you get to 3C does cooling and long turn damage come into play. You also need an aggressive tapper at about 40% capacity.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

1 hour charging, you can do it, but not with no oem.

OEM's play it super safe on purpose and for reasons when it comes to batteries and the total power of the setup.









52V 23Ah Triangle Battery


52V (14s) 23.5Ah Triangular Frame Battery with Rigid Enclosure, On/Off Switch, Samsung 35E Cells, and 50A continuous BMS circuit.




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Samsung 35E cells
14S x 7P








Samsung 35E INR 18650 | Battery Junction


Grab a Samsung 35E unprotected 18650 flat top battery designed for high-drain devices in order to deliver powerful performance. Available now.




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Says 2a x 7p = 14a if the bms allows that.
Compare to a123 26650 at 10a x 7p = 70a charge rate the battery would accept.








A123 LiFePO4 26650 Rechargeable Cell: 3.3V 2500 mAh, 50A Rate, 8.25Wh, ANR26650M1B, ANR26650M1-B


6610



www.batteryspace.com


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## Jason_MTB (Nov 17, 2020)

Yeah was hoping there were aftermarket chargers that work with OEM batteries.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

REZEN said:


> I tend to do shuttle rides for big days rather than big climbs hence being a Kenevo SL owner. IF needed, though rather rare, I can charge partially or fully on the way up as I installed a bigger alternator, second battery and 1000w PSU into my 4runner.



Dear.

Effing.

God.


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## REZEN (Aug 7, 2020)

mikesee said:


> Dear.
> 
> Effing.
> 
> God.


It's common for overlanding.


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## Dale-Calgary (Feb 14, 2018)

I'm sure they are coming for many companies. My Giant Reign says its a quick charger.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Besides, finding a very powerful AC source near the trail is not too available at the moment.
> 
> fc


You're right, FC! Random power outlets in the woods are dang hard to find.  I bought one of these for road trips:








I've got a cargo carrier between my van and hitch bike rack, the portable generator sits on that.
I fire the generator up, head to my next destination and my ebike is charged when I arrive.
I talk like I do this all the time when actually I've only done this three times since owning an ebike for 14 months.
Truth is I hate generators, never thought I'd own one.
Closer to the truth: I hate generators (mine or anyone else's) in campgrounds or anywhere I'm camped where I can hear one.
So whenever I do go camping with my ebike & generator, I find a faraway dispersed campsite where I won't bother anybody but myself.
Fortunately there are a zillion of such dispersed campsites in the state where I reside.
Did I mention I hate generators?
Aside: I have not computed the MPG of my ebike.* 
=sParty

*The generator will run 8 hours on a gallon of fuel. My ebike battery takes 4-5 hours to fully charge from drained. Mileage on a full charge varies wildly depending on power assist mode, grades climbed and total ascent.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Dale-Calgary said:


> I'm sure they are coming for many companies. My Giant Reign says its a quick charger.


No it doesn't. Giant has a standard 3 or 4 amp charger. No Brose, Yamaha, Shimano or Bosch bike has a quick charger. Quick is above 1C or less than a hour to change.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

It's ok, there are outlets on the trail you can use.


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## Dale-Calgary (Feb 14, 2018)

alexbn921 said:


> No it doesn't. Giant has a standard 3 or 4 amp charger. No Brose, Yamaha, Shimano or Bosch bike has a quick charger. Quick is above 1C or less than a hour to change.


Im not sure about the spec or the rules on quick charging. My charger says 2.2 hrs to 80%, not sure maybe it the same as other systems?









EnergyPak Chargers | Giant Bicycles Official site


Fast & Smart Battery Chargers for your Giant Electric Bikes




www.giant-bicycles.com


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

No real rules. In rc normal is 1c or for a 700 battery that would be 20amps. Quick would be 3-4c or 100amps but that damages the battery.

1c is safe and has virtually no impact on longevity of the battery. The fastest current charger is 4 amps. 

Fyi 1c is full charge in 1 hour. Fast enough for me.

After 80% charge rate has to tapper. So even a 500 battery will take another hour to get the last 20%.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Dont expect fast charger from oem's, they require satisfactory safety margins and the tech needs to come down in price for the new chems.


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