# Stealth ebikes?



## Pain Freak (Dec 31, 2003)

I'm 60 years old and have a number of health issues that have me considering getting an ebike. I'm a long time mountain biker (20+ years) and still enjoy it immensely. But I'm now the anchor and have found myself limited to the trails and groups I can ride with. I still love the work out and everything that goes with mountain biking but I just need to catch up a little. A few of my aged riding buddies have switched to ebikes and are back up with the group and enjoying riding like they used to. I on the other hand have fallen off the back and see no other way to catch back up. Now I've been looking a lot at the bikes that are available and a few are very difficult for people to even guess that they're ebikes, the batteries are so well integrated into the frames that unless you were a knowledgeable mountain biker, you'd have no clue that they were pedal assisted. I've been reading all the controversy about the bikes and to tell the truth I don't get it. Like everything new we will eventually work it out. I'm in the group that hopes they get accepted by the LM's. It'd be a shame to limit myself to the local short rides. Most other trail users can't determine the difference between a racing road bike and a full on downhill bike so I doubt they'll see an ebike and know what it is.Riding with my old buddies we never get any questions until we come up on other mountain bikers and most of them understand and are quite accepting. I also posted this in ebikes but I think it'd be better here.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Pain Freak said:


> I'm 60 years old and have a number of health issues that have me considering getting an ebike. I'm a long time mountain biker (20+ years) and still enjoy it immensely. But I'm now the anchor and have found myself limited to the trails and groups I can ride with.


I'm also limited to the trails and groups I can ride with, always have been.

I think pretty much everyone here will give you kudos to ride your electric bike anywhere it's legal but if you're using the kindly old gentleman story to garner support for allowing them everywhere that card has been way overplayed. IMHO.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Pain Freak said:


> I'm 60 years old and have a number of health issues that have me considering getting an ebike. I'm a long time mountain biker (20+ years) and still enjoy it immensely. But I'm now the anchor and have found myself limited to the trails and groups I can ride with. I still love the work out and everything that goes with mountain biking but I just need to catch up a little. A few of my aged riding buddies have switched to ebikes and are back up with the group and enjoying riding like they used to. I on the other hand have fallen off the back and see no other way to catch back up. Now I've been looking a lot at the bikes that are available and a few are very difficult for people to even guess that they're ebikes, the batteries are so well integrated into the frames that unless you were a knowledgeable mountain biker, you'd have no clue that they were pedal assisted. I've been reading all the controversy about the bikes and to tell the truth I don't get it. Like everything new we will eventually work it out. I'm in the group that hopes they get accepted by the LM's. It'd be a shame to limit myself to the local short rides. Most other trail users can't determine the difference between a racing road bike and a full on downhill bike so I doubt they'll see an ebike and know what it is.Riding with my old buddies we never get any questions until we come up on other mountain bikers and most of them understand and are quite accepting. I also posted this in ebikes but I think it'd be better here.


What's the health issue holding you back from a regular bike?


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

You and your aged buddies should just do slower group rides with each other. Better than cheating with an E-bike to keep up with the faster crowd.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

SteveF said:


> You and your aged buddies should just do slower group rides with each other. Better than cheating with an E-bike to keep up with the faster crowd.


Agree 100%

It is always that way. I have been on both sides of the spectrum and you just need to find a group that works best for you.

If you want an ebike.....go for it and have fun on dirt roads and other legal areas. The idea of someone coming down a single track on a 60lb (not sure what an ebike weighs) as I am climbing does not sound good.

Like I tell my 15 year old son that I struggle to keep up with...."I have to work twice as hard to be 1/2 as good as I used to be". It is what it is.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

I don't see why everyone riding at the same speed is important on mtbs, and this argument for ebikes gets trotted out a lot. On a road ride, yeah, it's a huge benefit to be able to sit in the group because of the aerodynamic advantage, on a mtb though? The fast climbers wait at the top and the fast descenders wait at the bottom. I've never been on a mtb ride that wasn't like that. You wait a few minutes, BS with your buddies and keep going. Riding in a group is a social event, what's the big deal?


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

As mentioned, if legal, go for it. If not, don't.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

Hey Pain -

There are always faster riders, unless you are Nino Scherzer. You shouldn't feel inadequate or like you're missing anything by being slower. Find folks who ride your pace - that's what I do.

If LM's allow ebikes just like regular bikes, *what will you do when the riders you can't currently keep up with, also buy e-bikes? * Then you'll need a more powerful ebike, ad inifinitum. The whole premise is a logical fallacy. And that's not even getting into the 3rd rail yet: That allowing ebikes may ultimately result in losing access and complete bike bans (since a 1000w throttle bike will soon easily masquerade as a 250w pedalec, or as you said, even masquerade as a plain old bike).


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

You might want to change your handle too.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

The fact that you are considering a "stealth" ebike sounds to me like you really aren't comfortable with the idea. You consider it cheating and don't want anyone to know you would do such a thing.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> I think pretty much everyone here will give you kudos to ride your electric bike anywhere it's legal but if you're using the kindly old gentleman story to garner support for allowing them everywhere that card has been way overplayed.


This


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

BruceBrown said:


> What's the health issue holding you back from a regular bike?


Bruised ego.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Sorry man. I'm not that far behind you but when it's time to stop riding, I'll have to stop riding. A bicycle is a human powered device, period.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Aging out is inevitable, emotorbikes aren't.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I don't get the age thing at all. My dad is in his mid 70s and not in the greatest shape. He still rides. My sister has CF and ~30% lung capacity. She still rides. 

If you want to ride an e-bike, just ride an e-bike. Stop making excuses, and stop pretending it's a mountain bike.


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## azjeff (Jun 3, 2006)

If people would just call them what they are, electric mopeds, where they should be allowed to go wouldn't even be a question.

"Pain Freak" with a bird flipping avatar.. this could just be a troll thread.


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

they are expensive so... if your friends have them, borrow one and try it out.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

syl3 said:


> they are expensive so... if your friends have them, borrow one and try it out.


Why? Most of us are aware of mopeds and what they are like.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Jeez the dude is a long time member of this site. He's been riding for 20 years plus and that's the respect you give him. He's paid his dues if he decides an e-bike his is what he wants he's got the right to do so if the trail rules eccept it so should fellow riders. Who are we to judge what others ride?


PF, I say go for it and don't let others perception of it get you down.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

Pain Freak said:


> I'm 60 years old and have a number of health issues that have me considering getting an ebike. I'm a long time mountain biker (20+ years) and still enjoy it immensely. But I'm now the anchor and have found myself limited to the trails and groups I can ride with. I still love the work out and everything that goes with mountain biking but I just need to catch up a little. A few of my aged riding buddies have switched to ebikes and are back up with the group and enjoying riding like they used to. I on the other hand have fallen off the back and see no other way to catch back up. Now I've been looking a lot at the bikes that are available and a few are very difficult for people to even guess that they're ebikes, the batteries are so well integrated into the frames that unless you were a knowledgeable mountain biker, you'd have no clue that they were pedal assisted. I've been reading all the controversy about the bikes and to tell the truth I don't get it. Like everything new we will eventually work it out. I'm in the group that hopes they get accepted by the LM's. It'd be a shame to limit myself to the local short rides. Most other trail users can't determine the difference between a racing road bike and a full on downhill bike so I doubt they'll see an ebike and know what it is.Riding with my old buddies we never get any questions until we come up on other mountain bikers and most of them understand and are quite accepting. I also posted this in ebikes but I think it'd be better here.


Most people will notice your e-bike and just not say anything. But there really isn't anything like a stealth e-bike because the whirring sound of the motor gives it away -- that's how I spotted a thirty-something couple on e-bikes. (I didn't say anything.) The hidden motors used by the cheating cyclo-cross racer in Europe probably isn't powerful enough for you -- there are fully-concealable motors that fit in the seat tube and power the crank but they only put out around 100 watts or so and that is at a very high cadence.


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## azjeff (Jun 3, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Jeez the dude is a long time member of this site. He's been riding for 20 years plus and that's the respect you give him. He's paid his dues if he decides an e-bike his is what he wants he's got the right to do so if the trail rules eccept it so should fellow riders. Who are we to judge what others ride?
> 
> PF, I say go for it and don't let others perception of it get you down.


The OP is looking at "stealth" ebikes. Why? 2 things come to mind, ego or to go where they aren't allowed.

Absolutely get the ebike to keep up with your ebiking buds, just keep it legal.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Even if you don't keep it completely legal, just keep your local situation in mind. I know tons of trail that, though technically not 'motorized use' approved, I wouldn't bat an eye about running into a group like the OP describes. I also know places it could potentially create issues. 

You're the best judge of your local conditions, if you're familiar with the overall access situation and ride mindfully,...well, I'm honestly no stranger to riding in gray areas. Most long time riders aren't I imagine. Good judgment rules all.


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

hikerdave said:


> Most people will notice your e-bike and just not say anything. But there really isn't anything like a stealth e-bike because the whirring sound of the motor gives it away -- that's how I spotted a thirty-something couple on e-bikes.


Bosch is noisy. Brose is silent as fvck.


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## RETROROCKS (Sep 25, 2004)

I'm really worried about possible trail damage as well. And having that lead to problems for ALL of us!!!!
These bikes will churn up a climb with ease it seems, and how quick will you stop a 50+ pound bike when pointed down the hill.
I think when it comes to ebikes the equation flips, you no longer take the bike for a ride, it takes you!!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Just get one, my wife is on her second, first one was a Spec Levo hardtail 27+, it was a good entry level bike, but it was stolen in SLC, so we upgraded to a full suspension Levo 27+. 

E bikes are a great way to ride with folks who are faster and/or stronger than you, doesn't matter the reason, don't let the naysayers badger you.

and ignore the hysterics about trail abuse, as if the addition of 15# on a bike is significant compared to a fifty pound beer gut (insert eye roll).

These bikes are "assist", there's no throttle, it only goes if you go, and it'll only go as fast as you can peddle, so imagine trying to peddle fast through tech terrain or in tight turns, it ain't gonna happen.

On the downs a timid beginner can easilly exceed the cut off speed for the motor. Seriously, all these arguments are no more than myths and legends.

If you really care about your trails, go volunteer and tell those young whips to stop roosting the corners; that's where the damage occurs... that and riding trails when it's wet.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Why bother...


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

It has a motor. If the trail is for non-motorized vehicles, it doesn't belong.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Our single track multi-use trails have brand new signs that say "No Motorized Use", standard issue USDAFS trail signs, seems clear enough. I guess you pushy rich "cripples" have figured out a way it doesn't really apply to you. Some things never change. You don't ride with me...


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Or, you'll run into a biker like myself or those in our trails association. We can recognize an ebike right away. After a quick conversation and a picture to add to our database of illegal trail users, we'll ask you to leave. You'll never be able to ride your expensive ebike around the area again. If you don't go kindly, we'll have the sheriff meet you at the trail head. They'll issue a ticket and confiscate the ebike. Sound harsh? It's not. We're protecting our hard work with the BLM and other land managers and we don't have patience for people who don't think rules/laws apply to them.


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## miatagal96 (Jul 5, 2005)

I've ridden an e-bike and it's fun. However, I've ridden on trails where e-bikes have been turds - e.g. riding up a predominantly downhill trail and ruining flow of downhillers. Uphill riders have the right of way, but I don't think it's good trail etiquette for an e-bike to take the right of way - ever.

I have trouble keeping up with a lot of my friends (racer dudes and dudettes a lot younger than me), so I'm not able to ride with them a lot. I accept it. There's no amount of work/training I can do to keep up with them, given their age and sex advantage. I'll ride with them if they want a slower-paced ride. I wouldn't get an e-bike. But that's just me - I'd also be afraid that I'd get lazy and lose conditioning on an e-bike.

That said, I know someone who has issues and got an e-bike so he could ride with his friends that he's been riding with for decades and everyone is happy.

Personally, I think that e-bike riders should be super-sensitive to trail etiquette and be super considerate of those they ride with or there will be a backlash against e-bikes. Examples would be: never ride trails that don't allow motorized vehicles, be the sweeper for the group (don't use your e-bike to go from the back of the group to riding with the leaders - if I were normally the second-last in a group and the person normally last got an e-bike and this resulted in the overall speed of the group increasing [which it likely would], I'd be pissed - oh, and if you're sweeping, don't buzz the tire of the person ahead to try to get them to go faster), yield right-of-way to anyone not on an e-bike, and don't try to hide the fact that you're on an e-bike.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Yup the trail sanitizer people started using them (no motorized vehicles so illegal with out special permit, and most of them don't bother)...

So now we get people who ride the e-bikes with a saw or something on their back to look like they are working...

Anyway, me and the buddy were able to stay ahead of a guy and his sweetie on the trail, just pedalling...

He could probably have past us, on the big climb, but he didn't we would have repassed him on the flat and downhill sections by a big amount...

We were happy


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

All of our local trails are signed as "non-motorized only". We are engaging with the local land managers to address e-bikes before they become a problem.

Our mountain bike club group rides often have people of a wide range of speeds. Some of the slower riders are a bit older and some are young, but slow. It's not a big deal unless we are trying to knock out a big epic ride. We just wait at turn offs and or tech sections and do some sessioning of snap some photos.

Depending who I am riding with I may be one of the front of the pack riders or one of the slow pokes. When riding with faster people it never occurs to me to add a motor so I can keep up with them. I just do my best and if I know a particular ride is beyond my comfort zone I don't go on it.


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

I recently got an eBike for commuting back and forth to work. I don't ride it on trails but it's completely changed my mind / attitude about eBikes. They are motorized bikes, not mopeds or motorcycles. 

I average about 2.5 miles per hour faster on my commuter versus my road bike on the 9 mile, 30 minute round trip to work. Two point five. But I don't sweat. And it's just easier, which is nice on the way home after a long 12-hr day. There's lots of miles that I turn the pedal assist completely off. I imagine the same would apply to trails >> I'd ride similarly to the way I ride now, except a little faster and with a little less effort. 

eBikes have a place on some trails. With responsible riders, I believe there would be ZERO adverse impact to the trail system, or other users. However, the same a-hole who is rude and reckless and irresponsible on a mountain bike would be much more hazardous on an eBike. 

That's not a direct answer to your question, but I think you should go ride a few and choose one from a trusted LBS that fits your budget. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## 70sSanO (Nov 20, 2013)

Interesting thread. As it has been pointed out. The rider is in his 60's with 20 years of riding mountain bikes. I understand the concern about some idiot with no skills, but that can happen with any bike anywhere.

I'm opposed to kids riding trails on modded e-bikes like motorcycles, but I hardly think it applies here. The best solution would be to make people register them with LM. I know there have been threads in the past that have talked about ADA rights. Not the same thing, but maybe the same principle.

I am 65 and have found that my perspective on life has changed between 50 to 65. I don't ride an e-bike, and don't plan to, but to those who are flippant about just stopping when you can't ride anymore, or surf anymore, or..., give it a few years, and see how easy it is when it happens. I've been blessed to be able to still get out there, not sure how I will react when it goes away... and it can go away quickly.

John


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## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

i seriously never cared what other's do with their free time. i'll apply it here. i say go for what you want and ride accordingly. 

i had to check..did you all know there is an e-bike forum? i bet there is a forum for everything. people like what they like and who am i do say differently?

\however: perhaps the OP should change the username to something less painful?


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

I have a ebike and its a diy and no one could tell its a ebike its silent and the battery is in my nap sack. My bike weighs 42pounds, its legal around here and I love it, I ride way more and its 100x more enjoyable riding the trails, and I still get a great work out. haters or going to hate, get one you will love it. You can probably rent one and see what you think


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> You can probably rent one and see what you think


They are illegal on my local trails so even if I was interested in renting one I couldn't see what I thought about shredding on trails.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> I have a ebike and its a diy and no one could tell its a ebike its silent and the battery is in my nap sack. My bike weighs 42pounds, its legal around here and I love it, I ride way more and its 100x more enjoyable riding the trails, and I still get a great work out. haters or going to hate, get one you will love it. You can probably rent one and see what you think


Why are you worried whether or not people can tell if it's an ebike? If you are riding it legally on ohv trails, then you don't have an issue and may as well put huge stickers on it that proclaim "THIS IS AN EBIKE!" However if you are making it a stealth ebike so that you can poach trails because you're a special snowflake and the rules don't apply to you, well...


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## Dave Mac (Jan 9, 2017)

Silentfoe said:


> Why are you worried whether or not people can tell if it's an ebike? If you are riding it legally on ohv trails, then you don't have an issue and may as well put huge stickers on it that proclaim "THIS IS AN EBIKE!" However if you are making it a stealth ebike so that yo can poach trails because you're a special snowflake and the rules don't apply to you, well...


Please show me where I said I was worried ? you cant!! please only read what I wrote and not what you think I wrote. You are obviously one of the haters that I was referring to since you have no idea of who I am and are name calling what are 12 years old in the adult forum you should be ashamed of yourself. I like blowing buy guys like you on the trail


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Dave Mac said:


> Please show me where I said I was worried ? ...... I like blowing buy guys like you on the trail





Dave Mac said:


> I have a ebike and its a diy and no one could tell its a ebike its silent and the battery is in my nap sack.


You're obviously a wicked smart fella.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Dave Mac said:


> I have a ebike and its a diy and no one could tell its a ebike its silent and the battery is in my nap sack. My bike weighs 42pounds, its legal around here and I love it, I ride way more and its 100x more enjoyable riding the trails, and I still get a great work out. haters or going to hate, get one you will love it. You can probably rent one and see what you think





Dave Mac said:


> I have a mid drive kit that is 750 watts that is installed on my bike, and I picket up about 2 miles per hour faster on a single track loop that I used to ride when I was in fairly good shape. so I went from doing the loop as a average of about 8 mph to doing it now out of shape with a e bike at average mile per hour 10 mph. Mine also has a throttle override so.
> 
> Yes they do make 1000watts mid drive kits that will be my next purchase


Hmm, pretty sure we all could tell it's an ebike, even if you hide the battery in your knap sack.


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