# Azonic Outlaws vs. Sun Rhyno Lite XL



## bvibert (Mar 30, 2006)

I desperately need new wheels. I've been doing a fair amount of research and have narrowed my choices down to either a set of Outlaws (36 spoke), or a set of Rhyno-Lite XLs laced to XT hubs (32 spoke).

I weigh about 270 and ride what I consider aggressive XC, maybe light AM. I'm not a very gentle rider. I'll take some small drops, and I'm hoping to get a little more confident with getting my bike in the air this season.

It looks like I can get the outlaws for right around $200 and the rhyno's for around $150. Price is definitely a concern, but if the outlaws are that much better then the extra $50 may be money well spent.

I've searched this forum pretty thoroughly and found lots of recommendations for both sets of wheels, but no real comparisons between the two.

What would you do? Keep in mind that $200 is the upper end of my wheel budget, actually it's more than I want to spend, but I'll make it work if need be. I'm also open to other suggestions. Other potential candidates were/are the narrower Rhyno-Lites (pinned, instead of welded), Sun Single Track, Sun SOS, and some sort of Mavic (321 or 521?).

I'm assuming all the wheels I'm looking at are machine built, I'm guessing (maybe incorrectly?) that hand-built aren't going to be in my target price range?


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## nadinno78 (Mar 23, 2006)

Good question. I am in the same boat and looking at the rhyno's. Have some outlaw's on another bike and like them. Saw this on another thread not to long ago. I know jenson ($110)had some Rhyno's with thru axle hubs on them for cheap but they didn't say if the rim was the XL or not.

http://www.rockymountaincyclery.com/servlet/the-Wheelsets/Categories


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## bvibert (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm running a QR front right now, though I wouldn't be opposed to trying a 20mm TA setup in the future, which is part of the attraction of the outlaws, since they can be used for either.

I haven't seen any sub-$150 wheelsets with the Rhyno-Lite XLs, they've all been the pinned Rhyno-Lites. Maybe the pinned ones are fine, I don't know.


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## ImaKlyde (Sep 6, 2004)

The Outlaws are stronger *and* a lot heavier.
The RhynoliteXL/XT combo is plenty strong for what you say you do and how you ride. 
The "regular" Rhynolite is more narrow than the XL (27mm versus 29+) and almost as strong, but in my experience not as strong.
Unless it's an odd situation...nearly every set of "close-out" or those lower priced wheel sets are machine built. It doesn't mean they suck, it just means they (probably) have not gone through the tensioning/stress/retension/stress/retension/etc process a quality wheel builder will do. That just means that you will likely need to true them more quickly than a set built with the same components but put together by a solid builder.

Consider: I have Rhynolite XL's on my squish and do everything from all day epics to free ride days. They have seen 13-15' road gaps and 12' drops. That's pretty much the outer limit for them but they continue to work. The rear hoop has a year and a half on it. Sadly...I've stuffed the landing a couple times on gaps and stuff and had to replace the front twice in the last year. Anyway...

Brock...


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## tonyl11 (Aug 31, 2005)

same deal with the Outlaws, Been running them on my trail/ do it all bike to as a spare for my DH bike. They are a little heavier but with a decent set of tires to offset them. Will work great. The biggest advantage is the dual hubs. 9mm/20mm front and 9/mm,10mm (with a step down axel) or 12mm.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

I'd do the Outlaws w/o a doubt. Don't care for non-cartridge bearing hubs - Shimano XT or boxed rims (Rhyno's). Both wheelsets are heavy but I think a lot of people get really caught up w/ weight / numbers. My 300lb. buddy rides aggressive XC on these wheels w/o any issues. You can run a 12mm to 10mm step down axle ($18) for QR frames to really stiffen up the rear - true versatility.


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## bvibert (Mar 30, 2006)

Getting the outlaws would increase my fork options down the road... hmmmm...

How much difference is the extra weight of the outlaws really going to make? It's like 80-100grams per wheel. About half of that difference is in the rim itself.


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## WTF-IDK (Feb 23, 2009)

Go with the outlaws.
you will not be disapointed.
I'm 300# myself and have broken my fair share of parts, wheels, and bikes.
I've had no problems with the outlaws.
I'm running them tubeless too.


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## bvibert (Mar 30, 2006)

WTF-IDK said:


> I'm running them tubeless too.


Are you running a Stan's setup?


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## bvibert (Mar 30, 2006)

I just pulled the trigger on the Outlaws! I'm stoked to have a set of wheels that I won't have to re-true after every ride! 

I'm sure I would have been happy with either wheel, but I decided to go with the extra beef to be on the safe side. Hopefully the extra weight isn't too big of a deal.


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## tonyl11 (Aug 31, 2005)

Honestly, Stop worring about the weight. 

One, You'll get used to it.

two, The tire,tube combo will make a big impact as well. Don't go throwing Minions 2.5 3C on there at 4lbs apiece 

Enjoy the wheels!


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## bvibert (Mar 30, 2006)

tonyl11 said:


> Honestly, Stop worring about the weight.
> 
> One, You'll get used to it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the encouragement. :thumbsup:

Tires will be my next concern... Kenda Nevegals seem pretty popular around here, so that's a likely candidate.


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## WTF-IDK (Feb 23, 2009)

bvibert said:


> Are you running a Stan's setup?


yes, I am running a Stan's setup.
the guys at the LBS couldn't get them to work correctly.
the best addvice I can give is whatch the Stan's vidio and do it exactly as they show.
it works:thumbsup:


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## WTF-IDK (Feb 23, 2009)

hey bvibert.

I see you're from CT like myself.
Is your avatar from West Hartford resevoir?
It looks familiar.


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## bvibert (Mar 30, 2006)

WTF-IDK said:


> yes, I am running a Stan's setup.
> the guys at the LBS couldn't get them to work correctly.
> the best addvice I can give is whatch the Stan's vidio and do it exactly as they show.
> it works:thumbsup:


I'm seriously considering going that route, what tires are you running? I'm trying to decide it it's worth the hassle getting them to seal properly. I do seem to go through an awful lot of tubes though...



WTF-IDK said:


> hey bvibert.
> 
> I see you're from CT like myself.
> Is your avatar from West Hartford resevoir?
> It looks familiar.


Good eye on the avatar! Yes, it's from the Rez, up by the power lines IIRC. I've only ridden there a few times, most of my time is spent at Nassahegan in Burlington.


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## General Hickey (Jan 6, 2008)

I have the Outlaws, and they are a way burly wheelset. They're heavy, but I weigh 160ish and I got used to them on my AM bike, and the extra rotational mass is nice on the way down. 

One thing to note about them (at least the set I got from Jenson) is that they appear to be machine built, so before you ride them you may want to detension the spokes and do them up right, or have a shop do it for you.


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## WTF-IDK (Feb 23, 2009)

bvibert said:


> I'm seriously considering going that route, what tires are you running? I'm trying to decide it it's worth the hassle getting them to seal properly. I do seem to go through an awful lot of tubes though...
> 
> Good eye on the avatar! Yes, it's from the Rez, up by the power lines IIRC. I've only ridden there a few times, most of my time is spent at Nassahegan in Burlington.


The tires I'm running are Kenda Nevegal's f&r 26X2.35 dtc kevlar bead.
They are not the UST type. Once I got them sealed up I've had no problems.
And I used to pinch flat all the time.:madman:

I knew your pic was from West Hartford res. It must have been about 2 to 3 years ago?
I know the spot where it was taken. I was up there 2 weeks ago. 
That spot is very washed out now. Almost un-ride-able, if you don't catch the peddles its OK.


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## bvibert (Mar 30, 2006)

WTF-IDK said:


> The tires I'm running are Kenda Nevegal's f&r 26X2.35 dtc kevlar bead.
> They are not the UST type. Once I got them sealed up I've had no problems.
> And I used to pinch flat all the time.:madman:
> 
> ...


The Nevegals seem to be pretty popular around here, I just might have to go that route. The tubeless intrigues me because I'm no stranger to pinch flats, especially running at the pressures that I prefer...

The pic was taken last year actually, earlier in the season. We went a little later in the season another time and the section was a lot more washed out. As it was I think I put my foot down and stopped right after the picture was taken. The photographer had perfect timing.  This is the original:


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## bvibert (Mar 30, 2006)

General Hickey said:


> I have the Outlaws, and they are a way burly wheelset. They're heavy, but I weigh 160ish and I got used to them on my AM bike, and the extra rotational mass is nice on the way down.
> 
> One thing to note about them (at least the set I got from Jenson) is that they appear to be machine built, so before you ride them you may want to detension the spokes and do them up right, or have a shop do it for you.


Thanks. If you don't mind the weight at 160ish then I should hardly even notice them at my weight!

I was assuming that the wheels were machine built, but I'm curious what makes you say that they appear to be machine built? Were they not tensioned or trued very well when you got them?

I was planning on destressing them, or what ever you call it when you put pressure on the spokes to try to get them to unwind, and then check them out. But, you're saying that I should loosen all the spokes and start fresh?


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

tonyl11 said:


> Honestly, Stop worring about the weight.
> 
> One, You'll get used to it.
> 
> ...


i took that advice too.. ended up with 2.35's, thick tubes, and forte locos (outlaws). the bike sucked, was exhausting to climb, tons of effort to climb.

those rims are 600 grams a piece. i went to a 450 gram rim, saved 125 grams per tube, and went to 2.1's for another 150 gram per tire saving.. it adds up, and adds up fast. thats 850 grams saved off the place where it counts most. bike is MASSIVELY faster. night and day doesnt describe how much better the bike felt.

some hand built, tensioned 719's, straight gauge 2.0 spokes and a good hub will be damn strong.. you'll never miss that weight.


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## steadyflow (Apr 25, 2006)

The azonic's aren't bad for the money, but I had rear hub problems with them....blew out two hubs in a 3 month period. Finally spent the money and having a wheel built up on a king hub.


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## sir_crackien (Feb 3, 2008)

ok i'm going to set this place straight on this topic. i have ridden both xt/rhyno and outlaws. there is no real weight advantage with one over the other. the hubs are about the same weight and the rims are within 25grams of each other. 

weight=mute point

having ridden both extensively i can clearly say that the outlaws are WAY stronger. i killed the rhyno's in less than a year. i rode them fairly hard but they should have lasted longer than then did and by alot! the outlaws on the other i have ridden for over 3 year and i have ridden them hard, very hard. they have been on my trail bike, trials bike (yes i also hopped around on them), fr bike, and the dh bike for a short time. i did eventually kill the rear wheel, the spokes started popping, but that was only after really beating on them. 

the rear hub thing with the outlaws. i have heard of problems with them. i actually had the loco version from performance which is suppose to be the same thing but seem to have less hub issues. from working there i have only seen one with an issue

strength= outlaws

also i'm right with you in the weight department at 260


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## ImaKlyde (Sep 6, 2004)

I just weighed my Outlaws and my set of wheels with CK hubs (32 hole; 15g) with Rhynolite XLs and did the math for XT's with Rhynolites and 14g spokes (using manufacturer's sites for the weights)
Outlaws: 2456 grams (5.41 lbs)
Rhynos with XT: 2349 grams (5.18 lbs)
Rhynos with CK: 2232 grams (4.92 lbs)

The King set have rim tape on them. Strength is higher with Outlaws as I and many have said. They are fine, but have not been the holy grail for me. Good for the $$ though but then so are the others.

Brock...


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## bvibert (Mar 30, 2006)

I just took my first ride with my new rims yesterday. So far so good. I can't say that I noticed the extra weight, but then again I hadn't ridden since last fall. I weighed the wheels before installing them to compare against my old, skinny XC rims. The Outlaws are close to 2 pounds heavier, with rotors (the old wheels were rim brakes). The wheels felt great though, between them and the new Tora 318 the bike felt a lot more solid.


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## dog.gone (Mar 14, 2009)

*Azonic Outlaws vs. Sun Rhyno Lite XL for a 29er?*

Okay, I have essentially the same question, but for a 29er rather than a 26er.

I'm cheap (laid off) & fat (300lbs), and I know from past experience I will *kill* the stock wheels that come with my rigid GT (32h WTB SpeedDisc All Mountains w/ Deore hubs). *As a quick reminder, I'm cheap. * Due to my cheap ways, I have been looking at 29"/700c 36h Sun-Ringle Rhyno Lite XL with XT hub for both the front and rear.

That being said, this post has me thinking about the Azonic Outlaw. I haven't yet done any research, are the Azonic Outlaws available for 29ers? If not, is there something comparable (strenght and price) for a 29er?

Do any clydes with 29ers use either of these specific combos currently (36h versions specifically)? What are the best (i.e. cheap but reliable) resources to purchase these specific wheelsets?

In terms of hubs, Phil Wood and Chris King are out. I know they rock, but I'm cheap; XTs are as expensive as I'm willing to go. If there is a less expensive hub that is better than the XT, I'd love to hear about them.


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## WTF-IDK (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey Dog.

you might want to post your question as your own thread. You might get more responses.
Don't count out the WTB's just yet. my friend rides with them and they seem fairly stout.
I love my red outlaws. but I don't think Azonic makes them for 29ers.
Good luck in your search.:thumbsup:


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## dog.gone (Mar 14, 2009)

Thanks WTF-IDK... I was hoping that I could piggyback on the OP's original question without creating yet another cheap-wheel-build-for-clydes thread, but I just may have to take your suggestion...

In the meantime, I think I've already answered my question about Azonics for 29ers; it seems they're a no-go for now. So, I'm focused on 36h Rhyno Lite XLs. I don't mean to dis the WTBs; I expect to put some slicks on them and use them for street rides / commuting. 

My experience smashing 32h rims on my old 26' MTB forced me to go to 36h rims. Even with heavy duty 36h 26" rims, I was still prone to smashing them - and that was 60 pounds ago. While I probably won't be riding as aggressively as I did eight years ago, I dread the thought of serving up yet another taco in the middle of nowhere and having to walk my fat butt back to the trailhead.


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