# Sheldon Brown says



## wyrm (Jan 19, 2004)

One of the biking greats has spoken... What do you think? This is found on his site in the Glossary under D.H.


"Down Hill, specifically, down hill racing. This activity that goes against the spirit of cycling more than any other branch of the sport, since it is the only branch of cycling which is not powered by the riders' muscles. This sport should, perhaps, be considered a branch of motorcycling, not cycling."


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## vexhex (Sep 18, 2005)

someone obviously doesn't enjoy riding bikes - only making money in a sport


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## NAYR751 (Apr 22, 2006)

Well I say that he should be shot. jk
To say that dh'ing requires no physical strength, endurance or effort goes to show how ignorant people can be. I don't know who he is, but maybe he should try it before he disses it. I'll assume he is a roadie, and in response would say dh'ing requires a different type of endurance: to be able to sprint all ou for 3-4 minutes on a technically challenging course rather than ride 100 miles on a nice paved road.


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## tahoeyeti (Oct 19, 2003)

novato kid said:


> goes to show how ignorant people can be. I don't know who he is,


haha looks like he's not the only one that is somewhat ignorant

j/k


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## NAYR751 (Apr 22, 2006)

tahoeyeti said:


> haha looks like he's not the only one that is somewhat ignorant
> 
> j/k


I wouldn't call it ignorance because I now have looked him up and know who he is. I was just a little offended by what he said. I think I'll write him an angry yet informative letter to depict my grave disapointment in him.


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## MattP. (Oct 3, 2005)

Ahh, he's old school, can't change them all


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## Coley (Nov 4, 2006)

pshhh, neither does the tour de france, its not like you have to be strong to compete in that right?


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## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

Weird.. He DOES have a point, but it's a bit like us looking down our noses at BMXers. It's stupid, and counterproductive to that which is biking. 
Snobbery, if you will.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

To each there own. :thumbsup:

He has allot of knowledge. 

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Let's see old Sheldy compete in a really pedally non-technical downhill race and make the same statement as he crosses the finish line without stopping for breath.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

DHidiot said:


> Let's see old Sheldy compete in a really pedally non-technical downhill race and make the same statement as he crosses the finish line without stopping for breath.


He knows CX


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## lelebebbel (Jan 31, 2005)

DHidiot said:


> Let's see old Sheldy compete in a really pedally non-technical downhill race and make the same statement as he crosses the finish line without stopping for breath.


Old Sheldon is over 60 years old and suffers from progressive MS, so it's unlikely that he will be riding any regular bicycle again ever.

He is also one of the most knowledgable persons when it comes to traditional bicycle technology in general. No need to disrespect him just because he doesn't like DH. He probably doesn't really care about it at all, just had to write a sentence about it in his glossary.

Give him a break.


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## Rover Nick (Jul 13, 2006)

I just like his picture.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

To call my (our) style of cycling something that goes against the spirit of the entire sport and to call it something that requires no power from the rider is stupid and ill-informed. I'm not giving him any breaks if he's supposed to be so knowledgeable.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

DHidiot said:


> To call my (our) style of cycling something that goes against the spirit of the entire sport and to call it something that requires no power from the rider is stupid and ill-informed. I'm not giving him any breaks if he's supposed to be so knowledgeable.


How old are you


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

dogonfr said:


> How old are you


Old enough. Why does it matter?


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## S_Huitt (Jun 23, 2007)

While it is true that we are cyclists, we are more specificly mountain bikers. I have made this point before that the origns of our chosen sport began in riding down a mountain. Those guys were the origanal DH'ers. So in the begining all MTB'ing was downhill.


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## chris_f (Jul 2, 2007)

The first guys to ride MTBs back in the day, Gary Fisher and the like; Didn't they ride _down Repack Hill?_


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## CBiDrive (Oct 31, 2006)

I first heard of Sheldon when I started looking into building a SS. He makes it very obvious his distaste for DH. But his knowledge of SS and Fixy bikes and tech is immense. I just never held his view on DH against him. 

I wish him well in his battle with MS.


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## Metanoia (Jun 16, 2007)

multiple sclerosis?


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## konut (Mar 25, 2006)

technically he is correct.

what most younger riders dont seem to understand is that cycling has been around for donkeys years and an mtb was an mtb not some pigeon hole marketing like it is today.

if you disagree with what sheldon says dont read it,hit the back button and look at something that does intrest you.

what i must admit that is funny is how people regard bicycles as engineless motorcycles,yet the bicycle was here first,suppose its like the old anogram what was first the chicken or the egg.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

I think Uncle Sheldon is old enough to be allowed opinions that do not match those of later generations.

I do not agree with this particular opinion but feel no need to bash him for having it.


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## jayjudy13 (May 8, 2004)

I had read that quote by Brown in the past. I think the bottom line is the guy has an incredible wealth of knowledge about bikes, and has logged more time and miles on one than probably 98% of the people who post on this site. I don't agree with his opinion (at all) but I think he does deserve a bit of respect... 

Considering he's not able to ride anymore I can't help but feel sorry for him. Then again that's IMO....


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

dogonfr said:


> To each there own. :thumbsup:
> 
> He has allot of knowledge.
> 
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/


Yes he does, and he has done as much to further the sport, (cycling as a whole), as anyone else. Sad he doesn't recognize & respect ALL genres of two wheelin' . I would've expected more from him. He still gets my respect.


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## mrpercussive (Apr 4, 2006)

he belongs in the norcal forum.........


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## monkeyfist23 (Dec 7, 2005)

Me thinky Sheldon Brown should stick to eating his Lucky Charms!!!!


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

He has MS guys. Let him talk $hit about our sport...


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

I've read a bunch of his tech articles and learned a lot. And he seems to be well-respected in the bicycle world. But for an expert in the field of cycling, that statement is pretty ignorant (and yes, ignorant is the right word to use here). A few problems with his comments:

He states that downhilling is more like motocycle riding because a motor (referring to a chair-lift or shuttle truck, I guess) brings you up the hill. He apparently doesn't realize that riders pedal to propel themselves down the hill, of course with the assistance of gravity. So is he inferring that any pedaling that's done that's not in opposition of gravity is not bicycle riding? Or is gravity not the issue, the "motor assistance" is? So if I drive to the trailhead to do a XC ride (because I don't live on the mountain) does that not count as bicycling? If a motorcyclist decided to turn his engine off and push himself around with his feet, would he now be "cycling"? If riders push their DH bikes up a mountain to ride down, is that not cycling?

In regards to his "fad" comment, how long does a sport need to be in existence with competitions internationally before it can be considered not a fad? 10 years, 20 years, 50 years?

It would seem that he has not done any real DH riding or racing (nor is he aware of its legitimacy as an international sport), if he had I'm sure his comments would be different. It's a shame about his health problems, though.


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## RadBartTaylor (Dec 1, 2004)

*Sheldon*

Sheldon Brown doesn't ride bikes, bikes get to ride underneath Sheldon.

Sheldon Brown doesn't ride a century, the century partakes in a Sheldon.

Sheldon Brown doesn't brag about having Epic rides, Epic rides brag about having Sheldon.

But seriously....of all people entitled to an opinion, I think he is, regardless of how off base it is. I see what he is saying, not that I agree with it per se.

He is one of those crazy old mtb coots that loves everything friction and made of steel, but isn't that why we love him?


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## Djponee (Dec 20, 2006)

what a nimrod, because all the DHers are fat and slow right


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## joelalamo45 (Aug 3, 2006)

"Old people, while slow and dangerous behind the wheel, can still serve a purpose."


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## downhiller12345 (Jun 4, 2007)

he belongs six feet under


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## Prettym1k3 (Oct 11, 2005)

I've seen some guys on DH bikes pedal their balls off for 6 straight minutes, pedaling harder than any other division of bicycling.

Not to mention that DH takes the absolutely most control, and yet complete willingness to "lose control" and trust your equipment, of any of the different modes of bicycling.

He needs to shut up.


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## The Dude (Jan 19, 2004)

Prettym1k3 said:


> Not to mention that DH takes the absolutely most control, and yet complete willingness to "lose control" and trust your equipment, of any of the different modes of bicycling.


no true dude. have you ever watched a mountain stage in the giro, tour, or vuelta? those guys wear NO armor and are cornering on 700x20-23c tires on sometimes WET pavement reaching speeds of over 60mph. i think that is just as ballsy as blasting down a tech singletrack with everysort or armor available.


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

Sheldon Brown is a God of cycling. He has done more than most to further the sport.

But he's old and old school. Clowns that respond w/ "he should be shot" are complete jackasses. Disagree w/ SB, but respect him.


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## creyc (May 24, 2005)

It's just his opinion, which he's entitled to have, even if he is at disagreement with the majority of those who actually partake in the particular thing he is commenting on.

As influential as he is, I do find his comments a bit less than credible on the topic of true DH. If you want an opinion on downhill racing, go ask a DH racer. If you want the skinny on XC, find a true XC rider. This is a particular pet peeve of mine, and one which seems to be exploited by the media by means of TV and movie stars constantly. And while he certainly has the right, honestly why would I want to listen to kanye west's opinions on politics?


Besides all of that, everyone is entitled to be wrong now and again.


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

creyc said:


> It's just his opinion, which he's entitled to have, even if he is at disagreement with the majority of those who actually partake in the particular thing he is commenting on.
> 
> As influential as he is, I do find his comments a bit less than credible on the topic of true DH. If you want an opinion on downhill racing, go ask a DH racer. If you want the skinny on XC, find a true XC rider. This is a particular pet peeve of mine, and one which seems to be exploited by the media by means of TV and movie stars constantly. And while he certainly has the right, honestly why would I want to listen to kanye west's opinions on politics?
> 
> Besides all of that, everyone is entitled to be wrong now and again.


Not only that, the majority of his website (which is never updated) was created at a time when virtually nobody was into DH.

I have a feeling if you talked to SB today he'd say something different than what's reflected in his website. --If I remember correctly he's disabled these days due illness.


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## creyc (May 24, 2005)

Yes locoman. Besides, fads come and go simply by nature of what they are.

However sports and activities which change with the time, and morph and are updated to reflect current riding styles and technologies, such as the downhill sport has done (look at early 90's DH for example) then this is no longer a fad.

Fads die out once they lose their initial interest. I think there is enough momentum behind DH to keep it alive and well for as long as people continue to explore the hills and mountains. In fact, I think DH will get more popular, as useable flat land is being consumed for private uses and businesses, leaving only the rugged terrain for recreation, terrain we can use and work with.


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## Mega T (Aug 15, 2005)

Say what you want, but the man can HIT!


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

man w/ one hand said:


> Yes he does, and he has done as much to further the sport, (cycling as a whole), as anyone else. Sad he doesn't recognize & respect ALL genres of two wheelin' . I would've expected more from him. He still gets my respect.


same views:thumbsup:


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

creyc said:


> Yes locoman. Besides, fads come and go simply by nature of what they are.
> 
> However sports and activities which change with the time, and morph and are updated to reflect current riding styles and technologies, such as the downhill sport has done (look at early 90's DH for example) then this is no longer a fad.
> 
> Fads die out once they lose their initial interest. I think there is enough momentum behind DH to keep it alive and well for as long as people continue to explore the hills and mountains. In fact, I think DH will get more popular, as useable flat land is being consumed for private uses and businesses, leaving only the rugged terrain for recreation, terrain we can use and work with.


I agree. DH is way more than a fad.

I think this whole thing is just a function of the website being outdated.

****
I bet the elite skiing crowd had similar things to say about snow boards back in the day... but I'm sure they think otherwise now.


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## renderedtoast (Dec 6, 2006)

If he doesn't think downhill requires muscles, then he has never ridden Downieville.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Downhill and freeride is what's driving our sport forward. What was DH ten years ago is more or less XC now and so on.

Someone needs to evolve with the sport or be relegated to crusty old relic status.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Those who are weak in their faith tend to be the most aggressive in defending it...


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## bdamschen (Jan 4, 2006)

sounds to me like at the time that was written, Sheldon had never ridden in a dh race and didn't really know much about the sport. I remember back in the early 90's when I was riding XC like crazy and was just starting to look at DH that most people held the same view that Sheldon did. Everyone just thought DHers were lazy for not riding up the hills they rode down.


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## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

I've learned a lot reading his articles and although I disagree with this specific opinion I do respect the man and what he thinks.
As somebody else said he's contributed to cycling to the point he's entitled to opinions that may be very unpopular.
ZT


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## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)

The man is entitled to his opinion. Respect his right to that and leave it at that.


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## JimC. (Dec 30, 2003)

*Cut the man a break*

he's contributed more to helping cyclists over the years than most anyone in the sport, and now he has a disease that may eventually take his life.

http://sheldonbrown.org/journal/health.html

I reread the lines and IMHO he's talking about DH racing primarily.

Jim


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## Dirtman (Jan 30, 2004)

OK Sheldon Brown is knowledgeable and has done a lot for the sport of cycling. But man IMHO, that is a statement coming from someone that is having trouble with the continuation fo the sport. MTB is not just XC. Like someone stated earlier, he is old school and you cannot change that thought mentality. 

Heck, I am old school (43), and I ride XC, AM, DH - all except road. 

Yeah, there may not be much pedaling going on with a DH run - But I will tell you that it certainly requires human power to navigate the terrain on most DH runs. It not like we are riding in a straight line all the way down. 

Do not get me wrong, I am not attempting to slam anyone but pepole should keep comments that negative and/or does not contribute to the whole keep your mouth shout - I would not care who the H$ll he is.... Just my .02


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## #1ORBUST (Sep 13, 2005)

He kinda reminds me of The Man, The Myth, The Legend Biker Fox. Not really.


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## nrs_air (Apr 29, 2006)

Prettym1k3 said:


> I've seen some guys on DH bikes pedal their balls off for 6 straight minutes, pedaling harder than any other division of bicycling.
> 
> Not to mention that DH takes the absolutely most control, and yet complete willingness to "lose control" and trust your equipment, of any of the different modes of bicycling.
> 
> He needs to shut up.


Funny stuff. In addition to the post about descending below, have you ever seen sprinters at the end of a stage in a tour? Or even in a local road race? DH requires skill and power and all that, but it's not the end-all of bike racing. Not even close.


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## creyc (May 24, 2005)

nrs_air said:


> Funny stuff. In addition to the post about descending below, have you ever seen sprinters at the end of a stage in a tour? Or even in a local road race? DH requires skill and power and all that, but it's not the end-all of bike racing. Not even close.


I think when you compare racing with racing, you'll find people tend to push themselves as hard as possible in ANY event, be it road, XC, or DH.

Just because you're racing downhill doesn't mean you don't have to push yourself harder than you ever thought you could do, you'll get 2nd place.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

I think Sheldon Brown is foolin all of you with his sarcasm and great humor.

I also think I don't care what anyone says about Downhill, I have fun with it and its all that matters.


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## ryan_daugherty (Oct 8, 2006)

Coley said:


> pshhh, neither does the tour de france, its not like you have to be strong to compete in that right?


you don't, the winner is usually the person that can dope the most without getting caught..

i agree w/ nothing that guy said.. 
personally i think endurance racing blows... its so boring to watch.. i cant imagine it being fun as a participant..

i suppose i'm just like this guy though, where as i don't consider XC racing part of mountain biking really.. all the races i've seen at the national level.. are retardly non-tech (terrain wise) physically (ups mostly) they look tech.. but lame to do and very boring to watch.

Sorry OT - seriously though, XC races should turn into AM .. tech climbs, w/ the tech downs.. not a grass field that has been flattened with a nice groomed piece of dirt single track in the middle.. lame.. they need something that seperates them from the roadies.. right?


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## Sasquatch (Dec 23, 2003)

Prettym1k3 said:


> I've seen some guys on DH bikes pedal their balls off for 6 straight minutes, pedaling harder than any other division of bicycling.
> 
> Not to mention that DH takes the absolutely most control, and yet complete willingness to "lose control" and trust your equipment, of any of the different modes of bicycling.
> 
> He needs to shut up.


6 whole minutes!!

I guess the RAAM folks should bow down. 
Same goes for the guy who holds a world record for pedaling 53.43 miles in 60 minutes.

but then again, they didn't pedal their balls off, so I guess the DH guy is better.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Sasquatch said:


> 6 whole minutes!!
> 
> I guess the RAAM folks should bow down.
> Same goes for the guy who holds a world record for pedaling 53.43 miles in 60 minutes.
> ...


*Lame comment siren*

Do you think he pedaled those 53.43 miles with a regular bicycle? I don't think so brutha...


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## dusthuffer (Nov 30, 2006)

Sheldon is my hero, mainly for his looks if nothing else - he is my role model. PS I hear he secretly downhills at night


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## dusthuffer (Nov 30, 2006)

somebody wrote how Sheldon has a lot of info on SS and fixies I'd agree to that BUt I would add he doesn't have very much useful info on any modern race-ready ( xc or dh ) mountain bike, and if you go looking for this sort of help on his website for this you will burn a lot of hours

Edit: but he is HOT - white hot.
Edit: Sheldon if you are reading this, PM me dude


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Downhill and freeride is what's driving our sport forward. What was DH ten years ago is more or less XC now and so on.
> 
> Someone needs to evolve with the sport or be relegated to crusty old relic status.


Actually what was DH 10 years ago is basically all-mountain today, and DH 15 years ago is now Super-D. Well, at least up here in canada. Then again, what was XC for us 15 years ago is what was DH for a lot of other riders at the time.


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## dusthuffer (Nov 30, 2006)

There is one rule on mountain biking forums: don't ever do a real comparison to road biking or bmx because in both cases on every level you can think of we come off looking like wimps.



The Dude said:


> no true dude. have you ever watched a mountain stage in the giro, tour, or vuelta? those guys wear NO armor and are cornering on 700x20-23c tires on sometimes WET pavement reaching speeds of over 60mph. i think that is just as ballsy as blasting down a tech singletrack with everysort or armor available.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

wyrm said:


> .This sport should, perhaps, be considered a branch of motorcycling, not cycling."


Well that would true if they actually were MOTORcycles.


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## kabayan (Oct 25, 2004)

wyrm said:


> "Down Hill, specifically, down hill racing. This activity that goes against the spirit of cycling more than any other branch of the sport, since it is the only branch of cycling which is not powered by the riders' muscles. This sport should, perhaps, be considered a branch of motorcycling, not cycling."


Downhill Racing
I consider this fad to be bad for cycling, and contrary to the spirit of cycling. It is effectively just a variant form of motorcycle racing, since the power is provided by the machinery that carries the rider and bike to the top of the run. Bicycling should be a human-powered activity, or it is not bicycling.

Interesting. I just checked his website and the definition is different. Subtle, but different.


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## NAYR751 (Apr 22, 2006)

kabayan said:


> Downhill Racing
> I consider this fad to be bad for cycling, and contrary to the spirit of cycling. It is effectively just a variant form of motorcycle racing, since the power is provided by the machinery that carries the rider and bike to the top of the run. Bicycling should be a human-powered activity, or it is not bicycling.
> 
> Interesting. I just checked his website and the definition is different. Subtle, but different.


I give up.:madman:


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

The OP is a sham, subtle nothing. WTF is up w/ the OP making stuff up?
Ya know, I checked the website and the difference didn't click w/ me. I assumed the OP was on the up and up.

wyrm is a step below a worm. SB helped make the sport what it is today.


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## wyrm (Jan 19, 2004)

Locoman said:


> The OP is a sham, subtle nothing. WTF is up w/ the OP making stuff up?
> Ya know, I checked the website and the difference didn't click w/ me. I assumed the OP was on the up and up.
> 
> wyrm is a step below a worm. SB helped make the sport what it is today.


Read the freakin' glossary... Check under D.H. I respect SB.
OP redeemed


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## creyc (May 24, 2005)

He's not making anything up:

http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_da-o.html#dh


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## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

What Kabayan posted puts it in a different perspective though.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

The page has been open " Since May 4, 1996 " he has been riding more than most here on MTBR & has contributed allot more then anyone on the post. People like Sheldon are who brought the sport to where it is now. :drumroll::rockon:


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## Oso Negro (Nov 27, 2006)

that's cool Pops- whatever


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## kabayan (Oct 25, 2004)

There are two entries in the glossary. One is "D.H." and the other is "Downhill Racing". 
I was quoting the Downhill Racing entry and wyrm was quoting the D.H. entry.


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## Iranian-Mechanic (May 6, 2004)

Has any body raced in a 5 minute course with over 70 % rock garden and 3 big drops ( over 6 feet to flat ) .Well I have . And I was coughing terribly at the end as if my kidneys wanted to come out of my mouth.

If you want to ride aggressively you need muscular endurance ‘ hard bones ‘ Flexible body ‘ keen eyes ‘ a ready mind and a react able nerve system .

That’s the real soul of down hilling . Its not just leaving the levers and coming down like a wild pig.


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

*wyrm redeemed*



kabayan said:


> There are two entries in the glossary. One is "D.H." and the other is "Downhill Racing".
> I was quoting the Downhill Racing entry and wyrm was quoting the D.H. entry.


wyrm redeemed. I originally went to the website and only noticed the the other entry. :madman:

Sorry wyrm.


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## trentet (Oct 20, 2004)

*how bout his opinion of Freeride*

SB doesn't seem to give much respect to FR either:

Freeride
This is mainly a marketing term. Generally refers to off-road riding that is also off-trail. 
Freeride bikes are similar to downhill bikes, with long travel suspension, but are generally
a bit lighter and are set up for climbing as well as descending.

Don't know when he wrote this but it doesn't really capture the sport as I've seen it. However, I do respect his contribution to cycling in general and everyone's entitled to their opinion.


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## creyc (May 24, 2005)

I think he's a bit closer to the mark on FR though, I mean it's kind of hard to argue that bit about marketing term, although I would argue that today it's evolved into its own solid branch of bikes and equipment.

Take into consideration when this was written, FR is still very much a new thing.


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

Oh gawd! Admittedly the guy is a well known character in cycling; but WTH - what respect due? historical figure my azz...

he's just some flaky obsessed dude with a web site that knows a lot about traditional cycling technology, and has alot of collact-a-bike & history to tell about.


Seriously, all the Respect due comments, come on; Respect everyone, but SB had nothing to do with the progression or popularization of cycling.


Clues are 1$ over here.


-- I am *NOT* saying dont respect him, or let him have his opinion, I *AM* saying that he is pretty insignificant in every conceivable way and this deferential attitude is a load! --


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

And how did the repack riders get to the top of Tam?

Did they pedal to the top? (I am actually asking, not rhetoric, but as I recall they pushed their bikes up.)

--

Addendum: I have looked at info on SB's page for years. Id put him on par with bikerfox -- character, but thats about it..


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## Rover Nick (Jul 13, 2006)

SABER_MTB said:


> Has any body raced in a 5 minute course with over 70 % rock garden and 3 big drops ( over 6 feet to flat ) .Well I have . And I was coughing terribly at the end as if my kidneys wanted to come out of my mouth.


You need some new course designers if you got 6ft to flat drops on your race course:nono:

EDIT: But I will agree that it is very demanding on everything


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## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

"I consider this fad to be bad for cycling, and contrary to the spirit of cycling. It is effectively just a variant form of motorcycle racing, since the power is provided by the *machinery that carries the rider and bike to the top of the run.* Bicycling should be a human-powered activity, or it is not bicycling."

Yea.. we get taken to the top of the run on a ski lift... but we still use our muscles going *DOWN* the run.

I have mad respect for SB, but i do wish he would not post such a bashing opinion in a trusted "glossary". This hinders our sport, as well as tarnishes any respect that road riders might have for Dh'ers as well as (and more obviously) Dh'ers for road riders.


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## shakenbakebaby (Jan 20, 2007)

nice dome hes got there, pretty awesome


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## trail bait (Oct 31, 2006)

I don't ride my bike up hill, and I don't wear spandex. With that said I don't care what he said, thats his opinoin and he can say what ever he wants while feeding cat food to the pigeons.


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## watermoccasin (Jan 28, 2004)

I didn't figure SB to be the type to drink Haterade. Anybody who claims ANY type of bicycle riding is "contrary to the spirit of cycling" and "not powered by the riders' muscles" is showing both ignorance and hatred. It takes skill and fitness to ride a bicycle, and it is a h311 of a lot of fun, which to me is "the spirit of cycling."

Maybe my riding buddies and I are more abnormal than we think we are, but we all ride everything from road bikes to cyclocross to singletrack to dirt jumps to bike parks, because it's all fun.


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

Huck Banzai said:


> Oh gawd! Admittedly the guy is a well known character in cycling; but WTH - what respect due? historical figure my azz...
> 
> he's just some flaky obsessed dude with a web site that knows a lot about traditional cycling technology, and has alot of collact-a-bike & history to tell about.
> 
> ...


Its sad that you think this way. It would make sense for a kid to think this way, but a 38 year old? That's pathetic.


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## freerider06 (Feb 13, 2007)

initially i was insulted and felt enraged, but what can you do. We know riding dh/fr is tuff and takes tons of talent. We cant let his ignorance towards Dhing piss us off...


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

freerider06 said:


> initially i was insulted and felt enraged, but what can you do. We know riding dh/fr is tuff and takes tons of talent. We cant let his ignorance towards Dhing piss us off...


I don't think ignorance was part of it. Its timing. SB put this on his website before some of the young guys here were even born.

This was a common point of view in the early days of DH.

Just as old school skiers saw snow bording back in the day.

Things change, but that doesn't mean website do too.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Locoman said:


> Just as old school skiers saw snow bording back in the day.


:nono: 
Everybody should know that "downhill skiing is not a sport: a machine takes you up and gravity takes you down".


That is a translated quote from a sports and health icon in my country. He is no longer with us but his accomplishments still live. I do not agree with all he said but the positive things that he did far outweigh that.

Ha!
I'll translate another quote: "The worst things that happened to the fitness level of the people in this country are elevators, indoor toilets, and motorized vehicles".


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## dusthuffer (Nov 30, 2006)

I guess you all didn't see that Interview last year where Sam Hill said Sheldon Brown is his biggest guiding light and the reason he goes so fast?


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

Huck Banzai said:


> Oh gawd! Admittedly the guy is a well known character in cycling; but WTH - what respect due? historical figure my azz...
> 
> he's just some flaky obsessed dude with a web site that knows a lot about traditional cycling technology, and has alot of collact-a-bike & history to tell about.
> 
> ...


95% of the problem we have in this country today...lack of respect for those that came before us & figured out so much & allowed us to build on and go bigger, better, faster more. 30-40 yrs ago, kids didn't get away w/treating/talking to older people the way they do now....one day they'll be past 35-40 & they'll get a taste of it....it will only get worse, cause the other 5% of the problem is the fact that "these kids think *they* did all of this and *they* made it happen". Most of us ain't worthy of kissin' SB's butt.


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## trail bait (Oct 31, 2006)

The Wright brothers applied left handed threads to the bicycle, that is some thing we all use, I am 39 and until a few day's ago I never heard of this spry old geezer, how I got away from the training wheels is a wonder. If he croaks all our tires' will flatten and our bottom brackets' will cease, it will be appoculiptic. *Long live Sheldon, praise be to Sheldon, go in peace wear spandex, and pedal up hill *


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

Locoman said:


> Its sad that you think this way. It would make sense for a kid to think this way, but a 38 year old? That's pathetic.


And why is that?

Sheldon Brown is nobody, that is not an insult, nor meant to be an insult, but the reality. What has he done, what has he contributed, where - other than his self-absorbed web site? I'm supposed to defer to other peoples mock respect for someone who is utterly insignificant?

He's allowed an opinion, but I am not? That's pathetic. Try to do some thinking before you post your next insult.


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

man w/ one hand said:


> 95% of the problem we have in this country today...lack of respect for those that came before us & figured out so much & allowed us to build on and go bigger, better, faster more. 30-40 yrs ago, kids didn't get away w/treating/talking to older people the way they do now....one day they'll be past 35-40 & they'll get a taste of it....it will only get worse, cause the other 5% of the problem is the fact that "these kids think *they* did all of this and *they* made it happen". Most of us ain't worthy of kissin' SB's butt.


Do you feel I have disrespected him? I'm saying you're all giving someone way too much credit. How is SB significant in any way other than he has a website dedicated to HIS experiences, and stating HIS preferencese? What has he made happen? How has he contributed to the sport? I cant take anything away if theres nothing to take. Enlighten me - really - if I'm wrong - prove it and I'll eat my words.

SB is an interesting character, and as I said, I have visited his page more than once out of curiousity.

Should we laud Bikerfox as well? He's has more visibility than SB, would you discount his contribution to the sport? This thread opened up with describing SB as "*One of the greats*", that is a significant misnomer.

I have plenty of respect for EVERYONE, I dont hand out deference.


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

Huck Banzai said:


> How is SB significant in any way other than he has a website dedicated to HIS experiences, and stating HIS preferences? What has he made happen?


I'm with ya' Huck, these are valid questions. Maybe someone with knowledge of his contributions to the sport (other than his website) can share what they know. Even if his contributions have been great, I still think that some of this deification is a little over the top.


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

PCinSC said:


> I'm with ya' Huck, these are valid questions. Maybe someone with knowledge of his contributions to the sport (other than his website) can share what they know. Even if his contributions have been great, I still think that some of this deification is a little over the top.


I dont mean to disrespect him at all. And I'm not. I like his beard, he knows lots of interesting stuff apparently, and puts much of it on a web site that is 'neat'.

It is important to give credit where credit is due; it is also important to NOT give credit where it is NOT due. (Not equally important, but important!)

Otter


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## trail bait (Oct 31, 2006)

The spandex Nazi bike helmet is sweet too


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## wookie freeride (Apr 10, 2007)

*Downhilling rules*

All I got to say is: Fvck Sheldon's comments, fvck pedaling up hill, and fvck this post:madman: ...I am going to go ride my engineless motorcycle ie...(dirtbag) down a hill, using no muscles, but I am going to have a blast. Besides, isn't having a blast what cycling is really about?


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

wookie freeride said:


> All I got to say is: Fvck Sheldon's comments, fvck pedaling up hill, and fvck this post:madman: ...I am going to go ride my engineless motorcycle ie...(dirtbag) down a hill, using no muscles, but I am going to have a blast. Besides, isn't having a blast what cycling is really about?


Wookie's have their priorities straight!


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## creyc (May 24, 2005)

man w/ one hand said:


> 95% of the problem we have in this country today...lack of respect for those that came before us & figured out so much & allowed us to build on and go bigger, better, faster more. 30-40 yrs ago, kids didn't get away w/treating/talking to older people the way they do now....one day they'll be past 35-40 & they'll get a taste of it....it will only get worse, cause the other 5% of the problem is the fact that "these kids think *they* did all of this and *they* made it happen". Most of us ain't worthy of kissin' SB's butt.


Hey where did you pull that 95% statistic out of?

(did you at least wipe the $hit off?)


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## serious (Jan 25, 2005)

I think SB was just saying that DH is for riders who don't have the physical fitness to do any other type of riding. JUST KIDDING. You guys are taking this way too seriously.


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## creyc (May 24, 2005)

serious said:


> I think SB was just saying that DH is for riders who don't have the physical fitness to do any other type of riding. JUST KIDDING. You guys are taking this way too seriously.


lol, ironic name.


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## dusthuffer (Nov 30, 2006)

OK, watch this, just substitute "Sheldon" every time you hear "Britney" 
Turn your sound up loud


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## trail bait (Oct 31, 2006)

Talk about big guns!!! The Brittney defense is huge. I'm going to name my first born Sheldon, boy or girl. Sorry Shiver


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## dusthuffer (Nov 30, 2006)

Sheldon Brown vs. Shiver me Timbers cage match!! Who's with me???

:drumroll:


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

Sheldon Brown did leave out one important thing, he forgot to mention that you guys are a bunch of pussies. Whats with all the gear you guys put on to protect yourself when you ride? Are you scared you might get a boo boo?:thumbsup: Heck I ride my road bike with 23mm tires at 50 mph on pavement with cars and semis five feet of my arm and I don't wear any body armor. I have an open face helmet sun glasses and fingerless gloves ...oh, and your favorite lycra shorts . You don't see us XC riders carry our gear uphill for the ride down.
Its amazing how much stuff you guys put on:shocked:


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## wookie freeride (Apr 10, 2007)

*Gear up to go down*

Here is what I think about the comment on all the gear , pussies, and Boo-boos, I want to be able to ride everyday and pads insure that. As far as as your open face helmet, small tires, and lycra goes...well dip sh!t, you are on the wrong fvcking forum. So...Piss off. Last time I checked, there is no X or C In Downhill/Freeride.


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

Oh... I forgot the goggles, are you scared you might get a bug in your eye?:winker: :lol:


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

Those armored shorts are sweet. I want some.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

"Down Hill, specifically, down hill racing. This activity that goes against the spirit of cycling more than any other branch of the sport, since it is the only branch of cycling which is not powered by the riders' muscles. This sport should, perhaps, be considered a branch of motorcycling, not cycling."

Not sure why we all have our knickers in a twist - this is a perfectly valid statement. What other branch of cycling requires less rider input to power (read keep bike moving)?


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## Rover Nick (Jul 13, 2006)

SCC said:


> Sheldon Brown did leave out one important thing, he forgot to mention that you guys are a bunch of pussies. Whats with all the gear you guys put on to protect yourself when you ride? Are you scared you might get a boo boo?:thumbsup: Heck I ride my road bike with 23mm tires at 50 mph on pavement with cars and semis five feet of my arm and I don't wear any body armor. I have an open face helmet sun glasses and fingerless gloves ...oh, and your favorite lycra shorts . You don't see us XC riders carry our gear uphill for the ride down.
> Its amazing how much stuff you guys put on:shocked:


Don't feed the Troll


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

They also are available in a crotchless version :thumbsup:



PCinSC said:


> Those armored shorts are sweet. I want some.


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## trail bait (Oct 31, 2006)

dusthuffer said:


> Sheldon Brown vs. Shiver me Timbers cage match!! Who's with me???
> 
> :drumroll:


My money is on Shiver he wears padding, goggles and a fullface helmet. :thumbsup:


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## sodak (Oct 10, 2006)

*Stupid comment*



SCC said:


> Sheldon Brown did leave out one important thing, he forgot to mention that you guys are a bunch of pussies. Whats with all the gear you guys put on to protect yourself when you ride? Are you scared you might get a boo boo?:thumbsup: Heck I ride my road bike with 23mm tires at 50 mph on pavement with cars and semis five feet of my arm and I don't wear any body armor. I have an open face helmet sun glasses and fingerless gloves ...oh, and your favorite lycra shorts . You don't see us XC riders carry our gear uphill for the ride down.
> Its amazing how much stuff you guys put on:shocked:


C'mon now, what's up with the rodie rage? In all honesty my spandex wearing 12lb fiberglass bike rider, I wear pads to protect myself from your proverbial "boo-boo", true. "boo-boo's" hurt, right? The "boo-boo's" I suffer from hurling myself off objects at high speed can cause serious injury, so is protecting myself from injury wrong? This will make you laugh; I actually wear my shin pads and full face goofing around in the street. OH NO!! I think it is rather smart to gear up to protect yourself. It makes sure you are able to ride the next day.

I am sorry that DH/FR is not as "extreme" as your rode rides, you know the ones where you refuse to ride on the nice bike path and you would rather ride in the road and tie up traffic so you can get the most out of your "extreme" sport by dodging cars and trucks.

My personal view on "cycling" is that I do not intentionally ride my bike for exercise. That is the big difference between rodies and DH/FH riders. I do not get on my bike in the morning and get excited about a 10 mile ride on the street. That is not my idea of "fun". My style of riding might not be your idea of "fun". I ride as a recreational sport, I do it for the excitement, rush, adrenaline, and enjoyment. I just so happens that I get a workout while riding, but that is not my intention.

You are crazy to insult the sport on the very forum that is dedicated to it. :skep:


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

sodak06 said:


> I am sorry that DH/FR is not as "extreme" as your rode rides, you know the ones where you refuse to ride on the nice bike path and you would rather ride in the road and tie up traffic so you can get the most out of your "extreme" sport by dodging cars and trucks.
> 
> My personal view on "cycling" is that I do not intentionally ride my bike for exercise. That is the big difference between rodies and DH/FH riders. I do not get on my bike in the morning and get excited about a 10 mile ride on the street. That is not my idea of "fun". My style of riding might not be your idea of "fun". I ride as a recreational sport, I do it for the excitement, rush, adrenaline, and enjoyment. I just so happens that I get a workout while riding, but that is not my intention.
> :skep:


I only ride on the highway, other than the few blocks it takes to get there from my house. No traffic problems on a 4 or 5 foot wide shoulder, except for the down hillers in their shuttle trucks who like to take swipes at you on the highway as they drink their warm up beers

I too don't ride for exercise I ride for enjoyment. Even though my road rides or more like 75 to a 100 miles. And yes I do ride XC on my MTB, even though it only has 5 inches of travel in the front and rear I still enjoy a long descent after a long climb. I also enjoy the excitement, rush , adrenaline uphilll and downhill, dirt or road. You just won't find me hiding behind 40 lbs of padding or riding in a truck up the hill:thumbsup: 

Lighten up :lol: I mean that in both senses of the word:lol:


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

I find it seriously funny that so many are so outraged when an old-timer does not appreciate their branch of cycling.

Do you really feel that his opinion reduces your testosterone level?


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## creyc (May 24, 2005)

So uh...what again are you doing here, SCC?


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## Pedal Shop (Dec 14, 2006)

I think anyone with his background who states something like that is simply bias because he never tried it... I have been riding bikes for 35 years now. I don't talk smack about any one style of bike... it's has pedals? it's a bike.

whatever SB.


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## Jettj45 (Jul 25, 2004)

sittingduck said:


> Weird.. He DOES have a point, but it's a bit like us looking down our noses at BMXers. It's stupid, and counterproductive to that which is biking.
> Snobbery, if you will.


I do't believe he does have a point, its a different forum of muscle conditioning that is required to be very fast at Downhill. BMX takes a good bit of physicial condition too. But its different from areobic workouts like traditional cycling...


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

WHAT WOULD JULI FURTADO THINK!!!



Asparagus.


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## One_Speed (Aug 3, 2007)

WTF you expect check out his bike.









Ok to give him credit he posted alot of content on his shitty site. It is amusing how people like him. Even back in 96 I thought he was an clown

May have racked in some miles but I bet his skills were seriously lacking.

*Of course he is going to bad mouth something he is incapable of doing. *


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

Sheldon Brown thought this thread stunk in 2007, it's too bad it was resurrected 2 years later.


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## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

Too bad the dude's already dead too.... He was a character, and his website is still pretty sweet.


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## AL29er (Jan 14, 2004)

Nice, I was reading and was thinking that someone was a jackass for wanting to shoot a dead guy ut: Then I realized HB had resurrected another thread


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## giantbikeboy (Dec 3, 2004)

I respect him. Lots of good info on his web site. I was searching his site and found one of his old bikes he had converted to a 63 speed. cool. GBB


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## toowacky (May 24, 2005)

I don't think SB would have cared about people bashing him, but he's probably rolling in his grave for someone reviving a thread that's been dead almost two years...


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## mr.niles (Feb 5, 2007)

*don't knock it 'til you try it...*



wyrm said:


> One of the biking greats has spoken... What do you think? This is found on his site in the Glossary under D.H.
> 
> "Down Hill, specifically, down hill racing. This activity that goes against the spirit of cycling more than any other branch of the sport, since it is the only branch of cycling which is not powered by the riders' muscles. This sport should, perhaps, be considered a branch of motorcycling, not cycling."


throughout my life i've participated in road, bmx, xc, am, dh/freeride, trials/urban, and dirtbiking. every one of these can be strenuous. these are ALWAYS strenuous: bmx, dh/freeride, trials/urban.

sheldon's comment (and perhaps his attitude) is a good example of why i don't identify myself as a "cyclist," even though i love riding my bikes.

sorry sheldon.


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

One_Speed said:


> Even back in 96 I thought he was an clown


And here we are in 2009 and I can has been thinking dat u r is dumb spelling at grammar and.

Clown.

But seriously, I learned how to build wheels from the dudes site, and he's very helpful for newbs. Can't really bash him for a difference in opinion.


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## rzarikian (Oct 6, 2007)

dusthuffer said:


> OK, watch this, just substitute "Sheldon" every time you hear "Britney"
> Turn your sound up loud


WTF!??? that's some powerful stuff she's smoking:crazy:


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## Tim F. (May 22, 2006)

The Dude said:


> no true dude. have you ever watched a mountain stage in the giro, tour, or vuelta? those guys wear NO armor and are cornering on 700x20-23c tires on sometimes WET pavement reaching speeds of over 60mph. i think that is just as ballsy as blasting down a tech singletrack with everysort or armor available.


Psst, ballsy, those guys have camel toe!


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## Tim F. (May 22, 2006)

SCC said:


> I only ride on the highway, other than the few blocks it takes to get there from my house. No traffic problems on a 4 or 5 foot wide shoulder, except for the down hillers in their shuttle trucks who like to take swipes at you on the highway as they drink their warm up beers
> 
> ooops! That would be me, my bad! Wish I could say it was an accident, but I'd be lying. It was an accident when I hit you in the mouth with that empty beer bottle I chucked out the window. I was aiming for your helment. Maybe If you had a fulface helment, you'd still have your front teeth!:lol: :lol:


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