# OK to mace a dog? Looking for good deterrent advice...



## ROCKINGNM (Feb 3, 2014)

My 12yr old son and I are just getting into this, it's only our second ride, we got attacked by a pit bull on Sunday. He came tearing at us from a yard on route to the trailhead, we were riding by in the bike lane on a major road. My son was in front of me about 30-40 ft, the dog was late to him so he then turned on me, it got ahold of my foot and pedal so I kept cranking and eventually shook him loose. We went another few blocks and regrouped, my foot was OK, just a little bruised. I should have called it in but decided I'd rather ride with the boy then waste my day dealing with animal control or the police, after the adrenaline wore off I regretted that decision when my wife reminded me she was attacked as a child in the same neighborhood, pitts are common in Albuquerque, especially in the valley.

So, is mace or any other detergent a common piece in your riding arsenal, is it quickly accessible when mounted? Hoppin arround on the bikes just too dangerous for The Judge.

Not looking for an "it's the owner" speech, heard it, got it, seen enough over the years to disagree, so let's move on.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

You can still report it. Animal control is better than Mace.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

I squirt them with water.


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

Silentfoe said:


> You can still report it. Animal control is better than Mace.


+1

In my county they will quarantine the dog for a week if you report that it bit you. That should get the owner's attention. Squirting them with water usually works for me too, but with a pitt bull, I dunno. Might just piss him off. Same with mace. I mean, if you mace him and he keeps coming, then what?


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## time229er (Oct 30, 2013)

*that is why God created S&W...*

I am sorry for appearing flippant, and although I do not carry, if I had, all that would have been left would be a bloody dead rodent...a pit is a totally useless excuse for Purina :madmax: sorry, but way too many bad interactions with that breed...you need to protect yourself :incazzato:and your kids...our English Setters do not even know how to growl


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2014)

ROCKINGNM said:


> My 12yr old son and I are just getting into this, it's only our second ride, we got attacked by a pit bull on Sunday. He came tearing at us from a yard on route to the trailhead, we were riding by in the bike lane on a major road. My son was in front of me about 30-40 ft, the dog was late to him so he then turned on me, it got ahold of my foot and pedal so I kept cranking and eventually shook him loose. We went another few blocks and regrouped, my foot was OK, just a little bruised. I should have called it in but decided I'd rather ride with the boy then waste my day dealing with animal control or the police, after the adrenaline wore off I regretted that decision when my wife reminded me she was attacked as a child in the same neighborhood, pitts are common in Albuquerque, especially in the valley.
> 
> So, is mace or any other detergent a common piece in your riding arsenal, is it quickly accessible when mounted? Hoppin arround on the bikes just too dangerous for The Judge.
> 
> Not looking for an "it's the owner" speech, heard it, got it, seen enough over the years to disagree, so let's move on.


 As a Pit Bull Breeder I'm appalled that you would even consider macing a sweet Pit Bull. Not really, don't care for any aggressive breed. Mace might be a good last measure (before a big knife or pistol) but I'm a fan of a shot of water as well. Mace can spray back at you and cause some issues with maintaining control of the bike (when you can't see). Carry a water bottle and try a cold shower with the next dog but do report every incident because there are some really bad things that happen when dogs bite bikers.


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## TheDocTx (Apr 24, 2013)

At the very least the animal needs to be reported. Some young kid walking by that house may not be so lucky. My dad would carry a can of ether (starting fluid) back in the day. Some of that wasp spray that shoots 20 feet will do the trick as well.

Personally I think the best thing for an aggressive pit is lead poisoning, but that tends to get folks in trouble these days.


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## santa cruzer73 (Oct 22, 2013)

I dont agree with hurting animals in any way. But at the same time you have every right to protect yourself. Just because someone couldn't take responsibility for there dog.


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## michaelsnead (Aug 31, 2005)

ROCKINGNM said:


> My 12yr old son and I are just getting into this, it's only our second ride, we got attacked by a pit bull on Sunday. He came tearing at us from a yard on route to the trailhead, we were riding by in the bike lane on a major road. My son was in front of me about 30-40 ft, the dog was late to him so he then turned on me, it got ahold of my foot and pedal so I kept cranking and eventually shook him loose. We went another few blocks and regrouped, my foot was OK, just a little bruised. I should have called it in but decided I'd rather ride with the boy then waste my day dealing with animal control or the police, after the adrenaline wore off I regretted that decision when my wife reminded me she was attacked as a child in the same neighborhood, pitts are common in Albuquerque, especially in the valley.
> 
> So, is mace or any other detergent a common piece in your riding arsenal, is it quickly accessible when mounted? Hoppin arround on the bikes just too dangerous for The Judge.
> 
> Not looking for an "it's the owner" speech, heard it, got it, seen enough over the years to disagree, so let's move on.


Hi Mr. ROCKINGNM,

I've seen guys with pepper spray canisters attached to their hydration pack shoulder strap. The trick is deploying the device while riding the bike one handed and still hitting your target. Obviously, any wind is a major issue. Here is an example of what I've seen but I'm sure there are many brands:

Amazon.com: SABRE RED Police Strength Pepper Gel - Professional Size with Flip Top, Belt Holster & 18 Foot Range: Sports & Outdoors

While I've purchased a similar product for my wife to use while running I don't carry one while riding. However, that is primarily due to lack of need.

All that said it's always the owner's fault for allowing a dog like that to be in a position from which they can attack you.:nono:

Take care and good luck in your search!

Michael:thumbsup:


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Do yourself and everyone else a favor and report the incident. Yours will probably not be the first report. OC spray would probably have an effect, but you would have to be careful about blowback. My grandfather used to ride with a child's squirt gun full of ammonia and water to fend off the neighborhood dogs. He said it worked. Seems like it would leak though.


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## ROCKINGNM (Feb 3, 2014)

Thanks for all the feedback, the one handed windy self-macing scenario with an unfettered dog having his way with me while I lay in a quasi-fetal post crash position was kinda what I was envisioning too, so the easy one is ruled out by attrition. Something pokey or bangy isn't an option either. Deterrent is the key I'm looking to twist.

After reading a few posts I called animal control, I just honestly didn't think they would do anything if I wasn't standing there bleeding. Waiting for a call from the night officer now. Update, he just called and is patrolling the area.

I'm gonna see if there's a noise maker I can screw onto one of these inflator cartages ala' screeching bullhorn...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I haven't had to do it in a long time but I've found that a squirt of water in the face will stop most dogs dead in their tracks, they just don't expect it.


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## 94M400 (Aug 25, 2008)

I had something similar happen with a Pitbull. I was out for a ride in a remote park here in Pa, and a young girl had hers off leash. It all happened in slow motion, the dog running at me with no where to go. After it got a hold of my hand, I jumped off the bike and used it as a barrier as the plump girl casually came up and retrieved her dog. No apology whatsoever. It was young or I am sure it would have gone right through my gloves. Regardless, I went out and bought pepper spray. 
I ride with a hydration pack, no bottle but that may be changing. I never thought of that, so thank you.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2014)

ROCKINGNM said:


> Thanks for all the feedback, the one handed windy self-macing scenario with an unfettered dog having his way with me while I lay in a quasi-fetal post crash position was kinda what I was envisioning too, so the easy one is ruled out by attrition. Something pokey or bangy isn't an option either. Deterrent is the key I'm looking to twist.
> 
> After reading a few posts I called animal control, I just honestly didn't think they would do anything if I wasn't standing there bleeding. Waiting for a call from the night officer now. Update, he just called and is patrolling the area.
> 
> I'm gonna see if there's a noise maker I can screw onto one of these inflator cartages ala' screeching bullhorn...


Any store that carries boating supplies should have a Freon air-horn that might work. I've never seen that used on a dog.


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## Manning (Apr 11, 2007)

Definitely report it.

The owners always think it's the cyclist's fault for "taunting" the dog into attacking. The cops know that the cyclist is JRA and can be on any public road. The cops will remind the owner about leash laws and how the owner has to be in control of the dog at all times and that they will get a ticket the next time it happens. Really irritates the dog owners to hear the truth. I had to do it a couple weekends ago. 

However, I get some sort of satisfaction when my foot makes high speed contact with a dog's jaw. Usually only takes one kick to train a dog, but some are dumber than others. I figure if it's over the white line and chasing me in an agressive manner, it's game on.  If the dog is just wanting to play/run with me, no problem.


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## Burt4x4 (Feb 21, 2013)

If a dog bites me I will kill it with my hands, my bike, my knife... that rock... on the spot! If it even tries to harm one of my kids I will hunt it down, end of story!
I do not tolerate violent dogs, period!

Sorry if this is too real for some of you...


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## Empty Mags (Jan 30, 2014)

This is another reason I CCW.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Wow.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Burt4x4 said:


> If a dog bites me I will kill it with my hands, my bike, my knife... that rock... on the spot! If it even tries to harm one of my kids I will hunt it down, end of story!
> I do not tolerate violent dogs, period!
> 
> Sorry if this is too real for some of you...


And the award for the most over-the-top macho response goes to... Burt4x4! Thanks for the dose of "reality".


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

I was attacked, similar situation. Pit got a hold of my foot and clamped down. Hurt like hell. Lady managed to get it off finally. I don't know if I was to blame because I startled the dog, but we were on a paved bike path, where there are walkers, and the lady has a pit. She should be aware of her surroundings, and very aware of the dog. It was aggressive. Luckily I had mtb shoes on that protected my foot. Had I been wearing regular shoes, I might have been in some trouble. 

I am a dog lover, I have one dog currently. I do not like pit bulls however. I don't think that they are good pets, nor do I think that they can be sweet dogs that are fine around family because they were "trained". They are vicious animals that are unpredictable, strong and aggressive.

That being said, I have considered carrying pepper spray to prevent further incidents however I do not due to the potential blow back from wind/improper use. I usually ride with glasses, so that may help if I decide to carry it. When I commute, I have a pedal wrench in my bag....not that I would use it....unless I had to.


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## jacklikesbeans (Feb 18, 2011)

This thread is crazy!


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

Getting attacked by a Pit is crazy.


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

Burt4x4 said:


> If a dog bites me I will kill it with my hands, my bike, my knife... that rock... on the spot! If it even tries to harm one of my kids I will hunt it down, end of story!
> I do not tolerate violent dogs, period!
> 
> Sorry if this is too real for some of you...


Dude, you are such a badass.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

> Animal control is better than Mace.


a pit bull is attacking. which is more effective in preventing immediate injury?

a.) pull out pepperspray and spray the dog
b.) pull out cell phone and call animal control


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Burt4x4 said:


> If a dog bites me I will kill it with my hands, my bike, my knife... that rock... on the spot! If it even tries to harm one of my kids I will hunt it down, end of story!
> I do not tolerate violent dogs, period!
> 
> Sorry if this is too real for some of you...


Awesome cool man! The problem being, of course, is that many dogs do not tolerate violent humans, which is where you come to play.


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## Burt4x4 (Feb 21, 2013)

LOL I have two dogs...not pits...my uncle had them...and thou they were never an issue they do have that scary dog vibe...
When I was 8 a SaintBernard bit a chunk outa my arm. My first "fight" with a dog I was protectiong my little sister and I beat him pretty good with a pipe...dogs don't scare me cuz they too have there week spots.
1. Squerting water is one
2. Swift kick under the jaw will stun them long enough to pick up the rock for more smashing or slashing with good ole Mr. Buck
3. No Fear ~ if you start running straight at the dog that is attcking he will be all "WTF" acting all crazy like a hillbilly helps too hahahaha like yer drunk on whiskey

Now let's RIDE!!!


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

First. It's pit bull. Not Pitt, like Brad, or pitbull, like the awful rapper. 

Second. Breed has absolutely nothing to do with it (addressing some of the idiots above that had comments about how pits are terrible dogs) 

It's much more statistically likely to get attacked by some of the breeds that people are most familiar with as "friendly"

That said. If I got attacked by ANY dog, I would have no problem using pepper spray or a tazer or even something drastic if I had to. The owner of that dog the OP encountered should be punished for being irresponsible. 

/rant

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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

TwoNin9r said:


> First. It's pit bull. Not Pitt, like Brad, or pitbull, like the awful rapper.
> 
> Second. Breed has absolutely nothing to do with it (addressing some of the idiots above that had comments about how pits are terrible dogs)
> 
> ...


Keep playing with pits and you will get bits. Idiot


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## pizon (Jul 7, 2009)

the only time I got bit by a dog while riding I managed to get it to reconsider via kick to its face. dont know how well that would work with a larger more determined dog


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

sfgiantsfan said:


> Keep playing with pits and you will get bits. Idiot


So ignorant. It's a dog, dude. They are known for having good temperament. People are irresponsible in handling and training them.

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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

There are entire forums dedicated to this very debate, so I'm going to take the high road here and just say you should educate yourself before calling someone an idiot, because when your wrong and you insult someone on the premise that you're not, you look like a tool. 

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## TheDocTx (Apr 24, 2013)

If you were to breed fighting dogs the breed of choice would be pit bull. Why is that? Pit bulls are inherently aggressive. Most breeds came about to serve some purpose such as hunting, retrieving, protection, fighting, etc. So yes, breed has everything to do with it.


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

The logic is opposite actually. Fighting dogs are bread to be able to be handled by people even in "fight mode" so if you really want to go there, technically, pits should be (and usually are) extremely docile toward people. 

Now typical guard breeds that are bred to be loyal to only one person and through certain commands may stand up to your argument, like the doberman, German Shepherd, etc. And they're still not regarded as inherently dangerous. 

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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

TwoNin9r said:


> There are entire forums dedicated to this very debate, so I'm going to take the high road here and just say you should educate yourself before calling someone an idiot, because when your wrong and you insult someone on the premise that you're not, you look like a tool.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


Maybe read what the ASPCA says about them.
The Truth About Pit Bulls | ASPCA

I love pitbulls and they can make amazing pets, but to ignore what they were bred for is foolish. There are no bad dogs, just bad owners. A bad owner with a pitbull is far more dangerous than a bad owner with a lab or a chiwawa.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

pit bulls seem to be at the top of every study regarding dog attacks, injury, and death. resultant to years of study the CDC considers them a dangerous breed, as does the army; who disallows pit bulls on base.

there are lots of studies which attempt to show the docile nature of pit bulls by comparing the ratio of the number of pits to the number of attacks. however, they are flawed studies. that's like saying, "prove it doesn't exist".

the accurate studies are based on FATALITIES AND INJURIES, and most of them show time and again that pit bulls are repeatedly at the top of the list.

just a few:

50% of dog attacks in a 5 year study were pit bulls. the other half were all breeds COMBINED. LINKY

pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges, and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs. LINKY

pit bulls at the top of the list of a 20 year study of dog attack related deaths. LINKY

5 year study shows dog fatal dog attacks most common with pit bulls. LINKY


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

Burt4x4 said:


> If a dog bites me I will kill it with my hands, my bike, my knife... that rock... on the spot! If it even tries to harm one of my kids I will hunt it down, end of story!
> I do not tolerate violent dogs, period!
> 
> Sorry if this is too real for some of you...


Mwahaha, try killing a male pit with your bare hands while its ripping one arm off, ive spent a lifetime with pitts and staffordshire terriers, you can try to gouge their eyes if they have a hold of another dog or you and they wont let go, when their brain clicks to attack mode and they get fired up one of the only things you can do is put your fingers in its ass and try and make them let go, this often works.
And the people suggesting squirting water must not have been attacked by any pit worth its salt lol, they wouldnt even register water.
Best thing you can do is stay away from the area and call the authorities, the owners need to have better fences, its not the dogs fault, its only doing what it thinks is right, its the owners fault, theres no point punishing the dog, that will only make them worse in the future, it will see everybody as a worse threat if you mace it, at present its defending its territory and sees you as a threat, the owners need a kick up the ass.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

*PSA from Tone's*



Tone's said:


> Mwahaha, try killing a male pit with your bare hands while its ripping one arm off, ive spent a lifetime with pitts and staffordshire terriers, you can gouge their eyes if they have a hold of another dog or you and they wont let go, when their brain clicks to attack mode and they get fired up one of the only things you can do is put your fingers in its ass and try and make them let go, this often works.
> And the people suggesting squirting water must not have been attacked by any pit worth its salt lol, they wouldnt even register water.
> Best thing you can do is stay away from the area and call the authorities, the owners need to have better fences, its not the dogs fault, its only doing what it thinks is right, its the owners fault, theres no point punishing the dog, that will only make them worse in the future, it will see everybody as a worse threat if you mace it, at present its defending its territory and sees you as a threat, the owners need a kick up the ass.


so the dog gets a finger and the owner a foot.... got it! :thumbsup:


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

moefosho said:


> Maybe read what the ASPCA says about them.
> The Truth About Pit Bulls | ASPCA
> 
> I love pitbulls and they can make amazing pets, but to ignore what they were bred for is foolish. There are no bad dogs, just bad owners. A bad owner with a pitbull is far more dangerous than a bad owner with a lab or a chiwawa.


Did you read it though? It kind of makes my point in this paragraph,
-----
Are Pit Bulls Dangerous to People?

Despite the fact that pit bulls were bred to fight with each other, early breeders took pride in producing dogs that were trustworthy and friendly to people. Handlers bathed their opponent's dog before a match, stood in the pits with the battling dogs and often pulled them apart to end a fight. Any dog who behaved aggressively toward a person was culled, or killed, to avoid passing on such an undesirable trait. Pit bulls typically lived in their owner's homes, where they earned the nickname "nursemaid's dog" because they were so reliable with young children. In fact, "Pete the Pup," the children's friend from the old TV series "Our Gang," was a pit bull.
-----
but I will agree with what you said. It's like saying "a criminal worth a knife is more dangerous than a cop with a gun"

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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

TwoNin9r said:


> First. It's pit bull. Not Pitt, like Brad, or pitbull, like the awful rapper.
> 
> Second. Breed has absolutely nothing to do with it (addressing some of the idiots above that had comments about how pits are terrible dogs)
> 
> ...


First off im on your side i love pitts, but if you have a knowledge of their history and understand the dogs, you will realise it has everything to do with the breed, and to be responsible with them you need to take that into account.
Pitts and Staffies are bred to fight other dogs, thats a fact, their brain works different to many other species of dogs, its built into their genes.
As an owner you can have perfectly behaved examples for a lifetime, great around a family, etc, then that passive dog can be by itself, see another dog and want to kill it, ive seen it 100 times, not every pitt is like this, but some are regardless of how they are raised, its very naive to think it has nothing to do with breed, they are bred to fight, its as simple as that.


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

monogod said:


> pit bulls seem to be at the top of every study regarding dog attacks, injury, and death. resultant to years of study the CDC considers them a dangerous breed, as does the army; who disallows pit bulls on base.
> 
> there are lots of studies which attempt to show the docile nature of pit bulls by comparing the ratio of the number of pits to the number of attacks. however, they are flawed studies. that's like saying, "prove it doesn't exist".
> 
> ...


This humbles my previous post a bit. Thank you for the links. Looks like I may have spoken too soon. I still think it's incredibly over hyped and people's hatred toward pits is the product of a lot of fear mongering.

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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

TwoNin9r said:


> Did you read it though? It kind of makes my point in this paragraph,
> -----
> Are Pit Bulls Dangerous to People?
> 
> ...


I agree with you here, and you obviously know plenty about the breed, not many know they were called nursemaids or grandparent dogs, i agree pitts are fine with most people, but they can be real dangerous around other dogs unless they have been trained very well.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

TwoNin9r said:


> Did you read it though? It kind of makes my point in this paragraph,
> -----
> Are Pit Bulls Dangerous to People?
> 
> ...


"early breeders" is the qualifier for the information contained within that paragraph.


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

Tone's said:


> First off im on your side i love pitts, but if you have a knowledge of their history and understand the dogs, you will realise it has everything to do with the breed, and to be responsible with them you need to take that into account.
> Pitts and Staffies are bred to fight other dogs, thats a fact, their brain works different to many other species of dogs, its built into their genes.
> As an owner you can have perfectly behaved examples for a lifetime, great around a family, etc, then that passive dog can be by itself, see another dog and want to kill it, ive seen it 100 times, not every pitt is like this, but some are regardless of how they are raised, its very naive to think it has nothing to do with breed, they are bred to fight, its as simple as that.


I didn't necessarily address this, which I agree with an concede, because the OP was talking about dogs attacking people, not other dogs. I fostered pits and never liked the idea of letting them around other "random" dogs without the correct formal introduction

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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

monogod said:


> "early breeders" is the qualifier for the information contained within that paragraph.


But isn't that where people contend the her their "mean streak"? Early on in their history?

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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

TwoNin9r said:


> This humbles my previous post a bit. Thank you for the links. Looks like I may have spoken too soon. I still think it's incredibly over hyped and people's hatred toward pits is the product of a lot of fear mongering.


my intent was not to prove they're an inherently vicious breed, but rather to just look at the evidence of injury related to breed from a health care providers point of view.

i'll not dispute that lots of pits are great pets, and the information you provided about pits was spot on. however, from a straight standpoint of percent of breed responsible for injury and death the pit bull leads far and away.

there were a couple of reports recently about pit bull related deaths by animals that were "nursemaid" dogs. one was a 12 year old boy who was killed by a pit bull the family had owned for years and considered to be docile, safe, and trustworthy. they went out and left the boy and the dog alone and came back to the bloody, mauled carcass of their son.

while other dogs do bite and even attack, as others have pointed out, once the pit goes into fight mode he will generally not back down (unless you can get your fingers up his butt) and the attack is generally much worse than for other breeds.


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm also curious if the numbers are skewed because of how many people actually report bites from other breeds and also the demographics that tend to own pits, not to mention the fact that their likely one of the most popular breeds, and last, how many "mixed breed" dogs are labeled as pits because they have a terrier look to them 

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## Shakester (Jun 26, 2012)

First off, there are no such things as bad dogs, only bad owners who are irresponsible and probably shouldn't even of had a dog in the first place. Certain breeds require a certain type of owner. I have a Lab and have come across many pit bulls at the parks and the ones that are always problematic are the ones you see attached to some homeless or ghetto person. The majority of ones are the sweetest dogs in the world and as obedient as they come. Dogs always get the bad rap, but its the dog owners that need to be held responsible. If your dog, regardless of breed, tends to run after cyclists, then keep them on a leash or securely fenced in. Nothing inhumane about either and its what normal dog owners do anyways. If a person doesn't care enough about their dog to where they don't them to get run over by a car, then chances are, they probably don't care to train them the way they should or do spend the time with them like they should. 

I'm an absolute dog lover and have been bit by a chihuahua. Any time you get bit by any sort of animal, domestic or wild, its always good to report it. If someone doesn't care about their dog that much, then they probably don't care to get it vaccinated. 

Being a dog lover, would I ever "mace" one? If its between my life or one of my kids', then I would mace the dog twice to insure the safety of my family. It could also save the dogs life as well because if a dog attacks you and you report it, chances are that the dog could get put down so macing one doesn't sound that bad afterall.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

AZ said:


> I squirt them with water.





Flucod said:


> I usually stop and confront the dog. Most of the time they are chasing the bike not you. If not I use the bike as a shield and weapon if they do not back down. Usually only takes 20 feet of walking and the dog turns around.


these are my steps 2 and 3. 
step 1 is a good firm NO, or STAY! as I ride at them, like I'm the aggressor.

Usually, I can tell by the body language, if they're chasing just to chase. Sometimes I even play along, letting them get in really close before I blast them with water. Thankfully, I've only had 2 _real_ encounters, out of countless, countless, chases. The trick is knowing when to get off the bike, before it's too late.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

TwoNin9r said:


> But isn't that where people contend the her their "mean streak"? Early on in their history?


it seems to be credited there, but i would suggest that's inaccurate. as the article mentioned the early breeders culled out dogs aggressive to humans and fighting pits was not the blood sport it is today.

had the methodologies of he early breeders been followed over the last 150 years i doubt the pit would rank at the top of the list of the studies i mentioned.

sadly, i believe it is man who had bred the aggression and instability into the breed.

my mom had a pit she got as a puppy and she was the sweetest, most docile dog you could imagine. then one day her little terrier (a jack russell) was harassing one of my mom's goats as was his daily routine when the animals would all run and play together. daisy (the pit) joined into the chase and it was all fun and games no different from any other day until she snapped and attacked the goat without ANY provocation or warning. she ripped one of it's ears off, left the other mangled and hanging by a thread, inflicted countless puncture wounds to the head and neck, and ripped her throat open. repeated application of a shovel was needed to free the goat. daisy was culled.

personally, i would never own one.


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

TwoNin9r said:


> I'm also curious if the numbers are skewed because of how many people actually report bites from other breeds and also the demographics that tend to own pits, not to mention the fact that their likely one of the most popular breeds, and last, how many "mixed breed" dogs are labeled as pits because they have a terrier look to them
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


you make some really good points here, theres no doubt pitts are reported more than any other dogs because of their capabilities and the fear they put in people, the numbers would be skewed for sure, no body is going to report maltese terriers or other little dogs that love to nip people.


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

monogod said:


> it seems to be credited there, but i would suggest that's inaccurate. as the article mentioned the early breeders culled out dogs aggressive to humans and fighting pits was not the blood sport it is today.
> 
> had the methodologies of he early breeders been followed over the last 150 years i doubt the pit would rank at the top of the list of the studies i mentioned.
> 
> ...


Where I'm from its too much trouble to own them anyway. I'm just miles north of Miami Dade County where they're illegal to own. Not a single apartment complex I've ever revved from our looked into allows them on the premises. If I had land though, I definitely would have one (preferably mixed with something smaller).

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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

Tone's said:


> you make some really good points here, theres no doubt pitts are reported more than any other dogs because of their capabilities and the fear they put in people, the numbers would be skewed for sure, no body is going to report maltese terriers or other little dogs that love to nip people.


A good friend was hospitalized by a bite to the face... Maltese

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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

TwoNin9r said:


> I'm also curious if the numbers are skewed because of how many people actually report bites from other breeds and also the demographics that tend to own pits, not to mention the fact that their likely one of the most popular breeds, and last, how many "mixed breed" dogs are labeled as pits because they have a terrier look to them


these aren't merely reported bites, such as the OP experienced. the studies to which i refer reference serious injuries and death.

what these studies seem to routinely reflect is that the pit is responsible for disproportionately more serious attacks, maulings, and deaths than other breeds - generally in the 35-50% range.


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

That's fair. But that's like classifying martial artists as having more serious punches than regular people lol 

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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

i'm still sitting here laughing imaging tone's "neutralizing" a pit attack. it sparked this mental image of you swearing at the dog in loud oz accent, putting two fingers together, and then the dog yelping and running for cover! :lol:

classic stuff there, mate. :thumbsup:


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

TwoNin9r said:


> That's fair. But that's like classifying martial artists as having more serious punches than regular people lol
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


so by that token, if we looked at the hospital statistics of injuries caused by punches and found that martial artists received the majority of them - would it not stand to reason that if one wanted to minimize his risk of being seriously punched he would avoid becoming a martial artist?


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

monogod said:


> so by that token, if we looked at the hospital statistics of injuries caused by punches and found that martial artists received the majority of them - would it not stand to reason that if one wanted to minimize his risk of being seriously punched he would avoid becoming a martial artist?


Touche!

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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Christ here we go again. I'm surprised that anyone rides since it's obviously so dangerous to leave the house, what with all the people getting bit by dogs and the Ninjas that fight them off hand to hand.


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

monogod said:


> these aren't merely reported bites, such as the OP experienced. the studies to which i refer reference serious injuries and death.
> 
> what these studies seem to routinely reflect is that the pit is responsible for disproportionately more serious attacks, maulings, and deaths than other breeds - generally in the 35-50% range.


But this is because they are the most capable breed that can do it, not many other breeds can lock jaw and switch on like a pit, they can kill dogs twice their size, if one attacked you and meant business, youd know about it.
Theres some very interesting vids on the net of pitts killing humans, mostly their owners, caught on camera by people that didnt know what to do, some of these attacks last 30+ minutes, never has there been a dog breed more capable of hurting a human being than a pitt, so by their very nature if one attacks a person its going to be worse damage than any other breed.
But i think some of the smaller terrier breeds bite and attack people more than pitts, it just doesnt get reported as a serious attack, they dont have the capability, im more worried about patting a maltese terrier than a pit, im even more wary of a chiwawa than a pitt, id class these dogs as more unpredictable than a pitt.
I take my dog to a dog park every day with about 20 other dogs there, its only the little buggers that try to bite you when you pat them.


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

AZ said:


> Christ here we go again. I'm surprised that anyone rides since it's obviously so dangerous to leave the house, what with all the people getting bit by dogs and the Ninjas that fight them off hand to hand.


Danger's my middle name...

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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

AZ said:


> Christ here we go again. I'm surprised that anyone rides since it's obviously so dangerous to leave the house, what with all the people getting bit by dogs and the Ninjas that fight them off hand to hand.


if you own a pit it might be SAFER to get out of your house and ride.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

buncha fackin idiots in this thread.

Report the dog that attacked in this case. Do not pass go. If a dog hurts a person, report it. Depending on state law, the owner may be liable for any damages, or even be criminally liable. At minimum, the dog will likely be quarantined for a rabies watch, which is good policy no matter what.

In the future, yes, you can use a pepper spray. There is even one marketed for use against dogs. Halt! Make sure you get one that sprays a strong stream, not a wide fog, so you are less likely to spray yourself, and you have some space to work in case the dog does not react as strongly as you'd like.

State laws vary, though, so make sure you know the extent of response your state permits. Most allow you to protect yourself, your family, and your livestock from even threatening dogs, and some permit a lethal response.

While commuting, I've actually found my AirZound air horn to be at least somewhat effective. I have successfully scared off chasing dogs with it. Not sure how effective it would be under all circumstances. It may depend on the motivation of the individual dog (same with a simple water spray).

To those who decry this method, are you suggesting allowing your child or yourself to be maimed or killed by a dog just because you are opposed to a painful deterrent spray? Sorry, but the safety of my family/myself trumps the safety of someone else's poorly-behaved and poorly-controlled dog...or even a feral dog (which is usually a good bit more dangerous).


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

NateHawk said:


> buncha fackin idiots in this thread.
> 
> Report the dog that attacked in this case. Do not pass go. If a dog hurts a person, report it. Depending on state law, the owner may be liable for any damages, or even be criminally liable. At minimum, the dog will likely be quarantined for a rabies watch, which is good policy no matter what.
> 
> ...


Idiots? I don't see many people saying not to report it. Sooo....

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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

TwoNin9r said:


> Idiots? I don't see many people saying not to report it. Sooo....
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


that's not the idiocy I'm talking about.


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## TwoNin9r (Jan 26, 2011)

Well then you're just plain rude lol. 

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## Burt4x4 (Feb 21, 2013)

LOL two fingers LOL OMG hahahaa..F'n GREAT!


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## redd4573 (Apr 15, 2012)

To those that have not been seriously attacked by a larger dog, it is very hard to defend yourself from an all out attack. I am not saying it cannot be done, but it is difficult and you will get hurt. I understand some will blow this off but all dogs are animals and even well trained dogs can snap and attack. Good luck recovering any cost related to your injuries it will take you alot of money and a bunch of time, only to find out that the owner (if there is one) will only have to pay a small amount. The injuries that may receive from a serious dog attacks can and often do last a lifetime. I have been around thousands of strange dogs as I was in a seviced based industry that required me to be inside homes with dogs. That said 99% of dogs are fine, but I took the 1% very seriously. I would say if there was a large dog attacking you or anyone for that matter, KILL it legally if you can. Again dogs are animals first and pets second. I say this because a freinds dog that was a really great dog for 9 yrs and I can not recall it even growling once. After attacking a gentlemen the dog was never the same, it would nip and growl untill it bit it's owner badly and he had the dog put down. I know most people will not be able to do this and will be upset at what I have said but it is my opinion and nothing else, because untill the laws change and hold dog owners truly responsible you are on you own to defend yourself before injuries are received from an attacking dog.

On a side note I have been told pepper spay is not the best choice. I was instructed to use "Halt" dog spray, Bear spray, or a stun gun as less lethal choices.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

TwoNin9r said:


> Well then you're just plain rude lol.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


Thank you for your expert assessment.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

ROCKINGNM said:


> My 12yr old son and I are just getting into this, it's only our second ride, we got attacked by a pit bull on Sunday. He came tearing at us from a yard on route to the trailhead, we were riding by in the bike lane on a major road. My son was in front of me about 30-40 ft, the dog was late to him so he then turned on me, it got ahold of my foot and pedal so I kept cranking and eventually shook him loose. We went another few blocks and regrouped, my foot was OK, just a little bruised. I should have called it in but decided I'd rather ride with the boy then waste my day dealing with animal control or the police, after the adrenaline wore off I regretted that decision when my wife reminded me she was attacked as a child in the same neighborhood, pitts are common in Albuquerque, especially in the valley.
> 
> So, is mace or any other detergent a common piece in your riding arsenal, is it quickly accessible when mounted? Hoppin arround on the bikes just too dangerous for The Judge.
> 
> Not looking for an "it's the owner" speech, heard it, got it, seen enough over the years to disagree, so let's move on.


I am sure pretty much everything has been said but I will say it anyways.

1) I would still report it. It could prevent somebody from getting terribly hurt. Even if it is too late to do anything, it will be on record.

2) Yes pepper spray is a perfectly acceptable way to deter an aggressive animal or person of any type. Your safety and your sons safety should be your only concern.

3) That being said, IMHO if you are a legal gun carrier I am not opposed to shooting an unrestrained animal that is attempting to cause you harm. (I know this will be controversial but I don't care) Next time your son or some other kid might be riding by and the dog seriously injures or even kills somebody. Then I am sure we will hear the owner claim how the dog has never shown any signs of aggression.

I am not opposed to dogs of any breeds. I have several friends who own the nicest sweetest pits you would ever meet. I am however opposed to aggressive animals particularly those who could cause serious injury to innocent people.

Please, at the very least report it. At least this way the owner can't claim they didn't know.


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## time229er (Oct 30, 2013)

twonin9r said:


> so ignorant. It's a dog, dude. They are known for having good temperament. People are irresponsible in handling and training them.
> 
> Sent from my samsung-sgh-i537 using tapatalk


OMG :eekster:


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

ROCKINGNM said:


> My 12yr old son and I are just getting into this, it's only our second ride, we got attacked by a pit bull on Sunday. He came tearing at us from a yard on route to the trailhead, we were riding by in the bike lane on a major road. My son was in front of me about 30-40 ft, the dog was late to him so he then turned on me, it got ahold of my foot and pedal so I kept cranking and eventually shook him loose. We went another few blocks and regrouped, my foot was OK, just a little bruised. I should have called it in but decided I'd rather ride with the boy then waste my day dealing with animal control or the police, after the adrenaline wore off I regretted that decision when my wife reminded me she was attacked as a child in the same neighborhood, pitts are common in Albuquerque, especially in the valley.
> 
> So, is mace or any other detergent a common piece in your riding arsenal, is it quickly accessible when mounted? Hoppin arround on the bikes just too dangerous for The Judge.
> 
> Not looking for an "it's the owner" speech, heard it, got it, seen enough over the years to disagree, so let's move on.


I would use some mace or a gun. I had a pit bull attack my family when coming home from my mother in laws funeral. I was in no mood and beat the dog with a tire iron. Protect your family.

What would you have done if the dog bite your son? If the dog had brought him down, what do you think it would have done?


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Burt4x4 said:


> If a dog bites me I will kill it with my hands, my bike, my knife... that rock... on the spot! If it even tries to harm one of my kids I will hunt it down, end of story!
> I do not tolerate violent dogs, period!
> 
> Sorry if this is too real for some of you...


I understand where you are coming from. You may need a gun but I agree with you.


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## ROCKINGNM (Feb 3, 2014)

Wow, I'm humbled by the response, thank you all for taking my concerns so seriously.

Just to catch up, I did report the incident, and I received a response from the county animal compliance officer today. He found the dog and considers it "aggressive", however his power to address the situation are limited since the dog was behind a fence when he found it. The good thing is that the owner is not simply scott free, the animal was not chipped or registered so he has 5 working days to comply or the animal will be detained, the owner is only 17, no job, and lives with relatives, so he also considers the dog a flight risk. The officer also told me the animal was livid to his presence and is going to place it on the watch list of "potentially aggressive animals", once it is registered. It's not the official "dangerous animal" database but a datapoint in case anything ever happens. Best he could do, and I appreciate his effort.

I ordered HALT! today, it seems like a good option, just not the "best". The Zounds thing looks like an option I may explore as well. Through the rubble of the thread, I gathered some sound advise; a little more awareness, some prevention, and preparation will go a long way.

Thanks to all, I see you rollin.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

NateHawk said:


> buncha fackin idiots in this thread.
> 
> Report the dog that attacked in this case. Do not pass go. If a dog hurts a person, report it. Depending on state law, the owner may be liable for any damages, or even be criminally liable. At minimum, the dog will likely be quarantined for a rabies watch, which is good policy no matter what.
> 
> ...


The only logical post in this thread...


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

ROCKINGNM said:


> Wow, I'm humbled by the response, thank you all for taking my concerns so seriously.
> 
> Just to catch up, I did report the incident, and I received a response from the county animal compliance officer today. He found the dog and considers it "aggressive", however his power to address the situation are limited since the dog was behind a fence when he found it. The good thing is that the owner is not simply scott free, the animal was not chipped or registered so he has 5 working days to comply or the animal will be detained, the owner is only 17, no job, and lives with relatives, so he also considers the dog a flight risk. The officer also told me the animal was livid to his presence and is going to place it on the watch list of "potentially aggressive animals", once it is registered. It's not the official "dangerous animal" database but a datapoint in case anything ever happens. Best he could do, and I appreciate his effort.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear it. 
Unfortunately it is true the officer can not do anything unless there is proof the dog was improperly detained and proposed danger to you. If you would have actual bite marks it would have been a different story. Unfortunately it is not illegal to own a mean dog. However, now the owner can't pretend he didn't know and the dog is on a list.

The sad thing is this could of all been avoided but it sounds like the owner is a POS kid that wanted a Pit for the "cool factor". Instead he gives a bad name to responsible Pit owners and eventually the dog will probably get destroyed.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

I am all for total extermination of the breed. They are not allowed at the complex where I live, and for that, I am grateful. When I lived with my wife, our neighbor was one of those POS that "breeds" them, yeah, for money. Not because he loved the dogs, nope. He treated those dogs like crap, and they were aggressive as hell. The male and female would be fighting in the backyard. Made me nervous to mow the lawn in our back yard, with just a 6 foot chain link fence separating us. I would often hook a hammer in my cargo shorts just in case. They were right up on the fence, growling and barking at me, pushing the fence with their face...could feel the hot breath of them as I tried to just hurry up and get that part done. I would often just wait to do that side when the dogs weren't outside. Yeah, such a wonderful breed, so family friendly and calm tempered.

I came home one day, and the female was sitting in the driveway. She got out. I was honestly scared to get out of the car. She sat there and just stared at us. I felt like I was in a modern day Cujo. Called animal control, and they came finally, but not before the girlfriend came home to find the dog had gotten out.

Just for the record. Here is my dog. He is about as aggressive as a marshmallow. Full blown lazy as hell Chihuahua that might have been dropped on his head as a new born puppy.


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

Protect yourself, sure. But exterminating the dog is like blaming and killing a 3 year old for the abuse and neglect they suffer under their ******* parents. When a 5 year old shoots his 3 year old playmate, who do you blame?
Exterminating the entire breed results in a lot of needless death, because another breed takes its place. This does not solve the problem.

Don't exterminate the breed,...unless your talking about the "breed" of insecure, dumb as bricks, *******s who neglect and abuse animals, and purchase certain animals and then neglect and abuse them to make up for thier personal inadaquacies. This happens with all types of animals. I'm all for total extermination that "breed" of people.

There are many small and miniature dog breeds that are super agressive for similar reasons. The owners coddle and praise agressive and dominant behavior and treat their animal like a stuffed toy. The agressive dominance is overlooked or even enciuraged because it's "so cute". **** them. Horrible owners are just as much at fault for small dog syndrome. That "breed" of people should also face total extermination.


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## PlutonicPlague (Jan 19, 2014)

Back in the 80's I carried Halt with me on my commute. I only had to use it twice. Two uses emptied the small canister I had. It is effective at short range. Due to the fact that it shoots a narrow stream, you just keep spraying and zeroing in until you're hitting the dog full in the face. Keep hosing the offending mutt in the face until it stops its attempts to grab your ankles.
Each time I did that, the dog stopped and started sneezing. 

I have broken Zefal pumps over canine heads twice!

I once had to clobber a nasty German Shepherd with a baseball sized rock, hurled straight down on its noggin just before it was going to grab my ankle. Ha, the dog bit the dust, but survived. It never chased me again!

I have had to dismount several times and use my bike as a shield, yelling as loudly as I could until the owner came out and called their mutt off. Then I gave the owner(s) a piece of my mind, promising to call animal control and the cops if it ever happens again. It can cost the owner big bucks to keep a dog once it officially has been determined to be dangerous.

Only once was I forced to take really drastic action. I was on a workout ride on my road bike going top speed in high gear when a large mixed breed resembling a wolf charged me from across the highway. It burst out of the shrubbery about 80 or 90 feet in front of me and was coming at a 45 degree angle with its head down and growling. It looked like it meant to take me down!
I had toe clips, and I yanked my left foot out and was going to try to dismount, but I was going too fast. Everything was happening too fast. The beast was almost upon me, when I angled right at it. The dog suddenly noticed that the tables might be turning, and stuck out both of its front legs to try to stop. Too late! My front wheel rolled right over its legs. Simultaneously, I kicked my left foot (still unclipped) forward so as to counteract the sudden de-acceleration of hitting the dog. My foot caught the dog in its underbelly just as my left pedal clocked it in the side of its head. I head some cracking as my wheels rolled over the dogs legs, too.
To my surprise, I remained upright and kept going.
I heard loud yelping, and lookd back to see the dog flopping on the shoulder of the road, with both of its legs broken. Of course I did not stop to go back and render aid. i wanted that beast to die.

A couple of months later, i saw the dog with its owners out for a walk. The dog was limping along on three legs (one had to be amputated). I asked them what happened. They said their dog got hit out in front of their house, and the A-hole who did it didn't even stop. I didn't say anything except to commment, "Bummer!"


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## PlutonicPlague (Jan 19, 2014)

I'm going to try a marine air horn. The small canister is really loud. I've got a couple of 'em. 
I no longer carry a cane knife on my rear rack, but I just picked up a 5" fixed blade commando knife with a nice lightweight nylon sheath. I'll be wearing that. No need to try to flick the blade open when sh*t is happening...just yank it out!

A fun method that might work on a bike (my Uncle did this with his Studebaker) is to fasten a loose burlap bag to the front wheel (on the passenger side), using one of the lug nuts. This is a good method by which to flummox the serial tire biters. Beats some sense into their noggins when their teeth get caught in the burlap, and their heads go round and round. I have yet to figured out how to set this kind of thing up on my bike, though.:eekster:


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

TenSpeed said:


> I am all for total extermination of the breed. They are not allowed at the complex where I live, and for that, I am grateful. When I lived with my wife, our neighbor was one of those POS that "breeds" them, yeah, for money. Not because he loved the dogs, nope. He treated those dogs like crap, and they were aggressive as hell. The male and female would be fighting in the backyard. Made me nervous to mow the lawn in our back yard, with just a 6 foot chain link fence separating us. I would often hook a hammer in my cargo shorts just in case. They were right up on the fence, growling and barking at me, pushing the fence with their face...could feel the hot breath of them as I tried to just hurry up and get that part done. I would often just wait to do that side when the dogs weren't outside. Yeah, such a wonderful breed, so family friendly and calm tempered.
> 
> I came home one day, and the female was sitting in the driveway. She got out. I was honestly scared to get out of the car. She sat there and just stared at us. I felt like I was in a modern day Cujo. Called animal control, and they came finally, but not before the girlfriend came home to find the dog had gotten out.
> 
> Just for the record. Here is my dog. He is about as aggressive as a marshmallow. Full blown lazy as hell Chihuahua that might have been dropped on his head as a new born puppy.


Honestly if I had neighbors like that their dog(s) might get a nice treat of ground beef laced with rat poison.


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## bigfruits (Mar 21, 2011)

i say go ahead and mace them, bear spray them, shoot them if they are attacking you.

i call for total extermination of the Chihuahua breed.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

LOL. My Chihuahua attacks his naps and the pillow on the couch because he can't get it arranged how he wants it. He has never even growled at anyone, let alone snapped or bit anyone. He stands there just looking, tail wagging 100mph, kind of a grin on his face. I can walk up, right when he is eating, and take his food bowl. He just stands there like OK, that's cool.


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

kjlued said:


> Honestly if I had neighbors like that their dog(s) might get a nice treat of ground beef laced with rat poison.


I'd probably just 'accidentally' drain some of the radiator in the driveway.

"Well I'm sorry she licked up all that antifreeze, but why weren't you watching your dog?"

Naw, actually I wouldn't. But I would entertain the thought as I called the proper authorities...


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## Learux (Jun 4, 2012)

I have been chased by dogs a few times myself. A lot of times the dogs want to run with the bike and means no harm.

If you have never been attacked by a medium/large seize dog you have no idea how scary it is. Unless you have some way of defending yourself you will end up very hurt/dead if no one is there to help you.

I always carry a kubotan. This very small(fits in palm of hand with tip sticking out) and lightweight aluminum stick is attached to my camelback. It is mounted in such a way that I can always grab it and rip it off.

The tip is bone crushing if you have a dog hanging on one arm, you can grab this stick and land it on its skull. I guarantee you that if the dog survives you will have its attention.

I don't mess around with aggressive dogs and will not become a victim of one.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

One day, I was minding my own business kneeling on the sidewalk about a block away from my house pumping up my bike tires when all of a sudden I felt that something very messed up was happening to my shoulder. I turned around and there was my neighbors chow chow clamping down on my shoulder. I shook him loose and when he charged again I managed to grab him from the fur on his neck with both of my hands. I found myself holding an extremelly pissed of dog in the air and didnt know what to do with it. I ended up throwing him as far as I could and climbing on a pickup truck that was parked nearby. I had 5 bleeding gouges on my shoulder, had to get a tetanus and a rabies shot just in case.

The neighbor that owns that dog also happens to be my best friend. I talked to him and tried to convince him to get rid of the dog as it was totally unpredictable. He argued and said the usual stuff, "its never done that, maybe the bike set him off, blah blah blah" So I told him that next time I would be carrying a knife and if the dog jumped on me again, I was gonna stab it to death. Luckily that next time never happend, one week later the chow jumped on his owner (my friend) and bit him on his stomach when he was trying leash it to take it for a walk. The dog got a .40 to the head after that. Not from my friend (who is a pu$$y) but by his father. He said that there was no way that he was gonna wait for an unpredictable dog like that to bite one of his grandkids. His dad is a total animal lover btw, rescues all types of hurt birds that have crashed to windows and owns like 5 dogs himself, but he is not stupid. Never put a dog before a human being and please dont compare it to a 3 year old human infant that accidentally shoots someone with a gun like a previous poster did.


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

abelfonseca said:


> One day, I was minding my own business kneeling on the sidewalk about a block away from my house pumping up my bike tires when all of a sudden I felt that something very messed up was happening to my shoulder. I turned around and there was my neighbors chow chow clamping down on my shoulder. I shook him loose and when he charged again I managed to grab him from the fur on his neck with both of my hands. I found myself holding an extremelly pissed of dog in the air and didnt know what to do with it. I ended up throwing him as far as I could and climbing on a pickup truck that was parked nearby. I had 5 bleeding gouges on my shoulder, had to get a tetanus and a rabies shot just in case.
> 
> The neighbor that owns that dog also happens to be my best friend. I talked to him and tried to convince him to get rid of the dog as it was totally unpredictable. He argued and said the usual stuff, "its never done that, maybe the bike set him off, blah blah blah" So I told him that next time I would be carrying a knife and if the dog jumped on me again, I was gonna stab it to death. Luckily that next time never happend, one week later the chow jumped on his owner (my friend) and bit him on his stomach when he was trying leash it to take it for a walk. The dog got a .40 to the head after that. Not from my friend (who is a pu$$y) but by his father. He said that there was no way that he was gonna wait for an unpredictable dog like that to bite one of his grandkids. His dad is a total animal lover btw, rescues all types of hurt birds that have crashed to windows and owns like 5 dogs himself, but he is not stupid. Never put a dog before a human being and please dont compare it to a 3 year old human infant that accidentally shoots someone with a gun like a previous poster did.


Chows are a notoriously unpredictable breed, a fairly uncommon dog compared to most breeds but they have a bad name for attacking people, when i was about 10 an old man up the street used to breed them, i was chased by them a few times and was really scared of them after a while, they attacked two people really bad in the street, one ripped an old womans calf muscle out of her leg, it was destroyed and he ended up moving out to the country, im way more wary of chow chows than pitts.


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

Learux said:


> I have been chased by dogs a few times myself. A lot of times the dogs want to run with the bike and means no harm.
> 
> If you have never been attacked by a medium/large seize dog you have no idea how scary it is. Unless you have some way of defending yourself you will end up very hurt/dead if no one is there to help you.
> 
> ...


Hi mate, i can guarentee you a fired up pit wouldnt even feel this even if you got him in the skull 10 times, nor would you do any bone damage in a pitt, the adrenaline they produce means they feel zero pain in attack mode, if youve ever seen real pitt fights youd realise they dont feel a thing, similar to two humans fighting, you dont feel a thing in a fight, especially to the head area, but what they dont like is anything going in their ass, your 100 times better putting your fingers in a pitts ass if your getting attacked by one.
I have been in the middle of two pits fighting trying to break them up numerous times, ive even resorted to punching them in the head that had its jaw locked on to the others throat exposing its muscles underneath, full blown king hits, to which they dont even register or blink an eye lid.
I can see most here with ideas to stop a serious pitt attack have no experience with the dogs and really underestimate them.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

monogod said:


> a pit bull is attacking. which is more effective in preventing immediate injury?
> 
> a.) pull out pepperspray and spray the dog
> b.) pull out cell phone and call animal control


You misunderstand me. I totally agree with you but we are talking after the fact here. It is not too late to call animal control for this dog. Mace is not going to help you or the next helpless person to pass the dog.


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## time229er (Oct 30, 2013)

maybe, just maybe, this thread has gotten a little bit too radical...but then again, maybe not... :shocked:


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

TenSpeed said:


> I am all for total extermination of the breed. They are not allowed at the complex where I live, and for that, I am grateful. When I lived with my wife, our neighbor was one of those POS that "breeds" them, yeah, for money. Not because he loved the dogs, nope. He treated those dogs like crap, and they were aggressive as hell. The male and female would be fighting in the backyard. Made me nervous to mow the lawn in our back yard, with just a 6 foot chain link fence separating us. I would often hook a hammer in my cargo shorts just in case. They were right up on the fence, growling and barking at me, pushing the fence with their face...could feel the hot breath of them as I tried to just hurry up and get that part done. I would often just wait to do that side when the dogs weren't outside. Yeah, such a wonderful breed, so family friendly and calm tempered.
> 
> I came home one day, and the female was sitting in the driveway. She got out. I was honestly scared to get out of the car. She sat there and just stared at us. I felt like I was in a modern day Cujo. Called animal control, and they came finally, but not before the girlfriend came home to find the dog had gotten out.
> 
> Just for the record. Here is my dog. He is about as aggressive as a marshmallow. Full blown lazy as hell Chihuahua that might have been dropped on his head as a new born puppy.


Are you one of those dipshits that thinks it's funny when his chihuahua wants to eat someone, because it's magically okay because the dog is small, but when a big dog behaves that way, it's time to exterminate the breed?


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## OLx6 (Feb 5, 2011)

I am an avid runner that has moved around the U.S. a bit and found that some areas of the country have more responsible dog owners than others (just an observation). For some reason I have never been charged by a dog while biking, but running it has happened quite a bit. One example, there were three dogs off the leash that came out at me. Two at the front and one looped around behind me. I waved my arms up and moved to face all three and shouted. We played this game for about 3-5 stressful minutes before they lost interest and I could walk away. Multiple times I have been charged by dogs, and standing my ground has worked every time. 

On a side note this thread needs Cesar Milan!


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

NateHawk said:


> Are you one of those dipshits that thinks it's funny when his chihuahua wants to eat someone, because it's magically okay because the dog is small, but when a big dog behaves that way, it's time to exterminate the breed?


Ecactly.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2014)

Not mace, but generally effective at reducing the aggressiveness of anything it's stuck in. Wear this on my camelback because work is not good with a concealed firearm.


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## sandiego (Sep 18, 2013)

Yes, mace, pepper spray, bike pump across the muzzle, gun, knife to the throat, choke to death are all acceptable when you're being attacked by a dog.

I've been chased a couple times, once while going uphill so I couldn't outrun the mutt so I took my water bottle out and sprayed him right in the face. I had grapefruit juice/water mix in that bottle.


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## Burzum (Jul 30, 2009)

I always carry a light weight 9mm or a S&W airweight 38 special with +p's. I would not hesitate to kill any aggressive dog especially around children. I've raised American Pitbull terriers and American Bulldog's for over 25 years. They are great dogs, got 3 sleeping in front of my wood stove as I type. But if they are aggressive they need to be put down.You are going to take some serious damage if you have to fight a pitbull without a firearm.


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## woofer2609 (Aug 14, 2009)

abelfonseca said:


> One day, I was minding my own business kneeling on the sidewalk about a block away from my house pumping up my bike tires when all of a sudden I felt that something very messed up was happening to my shoulder. I turned around and there was my neighbors chow chow clamping down on my shoulder. I shook him loose and when he charged again I managed to grab him from the fur on his neck with both of my hands. I found myself holding an extremelly pissed of dog in the air and didnt know what to do with it. I ended up throwing him as far as I could and climbing on a pickup truck that was parked nearby. I had 5 bleeding gouges on my shoulder, had to get a tetanus and a rabies shot just in case.
> 
> The neighbor that owns that dog also happens to be my best friend. I talked to him and tried to convince him to get rid of the dog as it was totally unpredictable. He argued and said the usual stuff, "its never done that, maybe the bike set him off, blah blah blah" So I told him that next time I would be carrying a knife and if the dog jumped on me again, I was gonna stab it to death. Luckily that next time never happend, one week later the chow jumped on his owner (my friend) and bit him on his stomach when he was trying leash it to take it for a walk. The dog got a .40 to the head after that. Not from my friend (who is a pu$$y) but by his father. He said that there was no way that he was gonna wait for an unpredictable dog like that to bite one of his grandkids. His dad is a total animal lover btw, rescues all types of hurt birds that have crashed to windows and owns like 5 dogs himself, but he is not stupid. Never put a dog before a human being and please dont compare it to a 3 year old human infant that accidentally shoots someone with a gun like a previous poster did.


This is not uncommon, I was trying to start a gas lawnmower, pulling the starter cord when I was completely knocked ass over tea kettle when a friend's 80lb husky blue healer cross lunged at me from behind. I think the animals have some primal thought that you are punching something (the pumping and pulling of a starter cord are similar actions) and launch into action. I could not believe the force of the dog. It bit me in the ass, and I too felt the dog should be shot. She said that the dog had been abused while younger, I don't care. I have also been attacked on my motorcycle by two dogs in tandem coming at me in a "V" formation from either side of the road. The only saving grace is that I somehow managed to jump up and stand on my seat and they still almost knocked me off. I won't kill a spider, I have a dog, but I now always carry a knife (for other reasons as well, it's a locking Victorniox) and will stab a dog if they come that close to me, (that is IF I can get the knife out.) You know what I mean if you've been bitten by a larger dog, I never want that to happen again. Shitty irresponsible owners.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

NateHawk said:


> Are you one of those dipshits that thinks it's funny when his chihuahua wants to eat someone, because it's magically okay because the dog is small, but when a big dog behaves that way, it's time to exterminate the breed?


Eat someone? The dog is small, hell, he is tiny. Weighs less than 5 lbs. He is totally docile.

I am one of those "dipshits" that thinks that no matter how much of a baby you think your Pit Bull is, it is a completely unpredictable machine capable of killing people. The breed should be exterminated. You think my dog could kill someone?


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## JeffH_PA (Nov 11, 2013)

*Choose your target*

Only mace the dog if he's an ass. Protecting your kid and yourself is most important. Just don't be trigger happy and be sure to give my dog the benefit of the doubt. He's adorable and friendly, he'll run up to you just to get a bit of love.


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

abelfonseca said:


> Never put a dog before a human being and please dont compare it to a 3 year old human infant that accidentally shoots someone with a gun like a previous poster did.


You obviously completely missed my point. Blame the shitty owner, not the dog.

Wow. Didn't think I'd actually have to spell that out for anyone...


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

NateHawk said:


> Are you one of those dipshits that thinks it's funny when his chihuahua wants to eat someone, because it's magically okay because the dog is small, but when a big dog behaves that way, it's time to exterminate the breed?


And he answered yes to your question. He is definitely one of those dipshits.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

I've always just kicked at dogs. worked just fine and my manliness is intact.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

iscariot said:


> You obviously completely missed my point. Blame the shitty owner, not the dog.
> 
> Wow. Didn't think I'd actually have to spell that out for anyone...


Yes I understand your point, and its wrong. A dog owner is not always to blame for a dog that snaps. Some dogs just go crazy one day, some breeds are more prone than others.

cheers


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

abelfonseca said:


> Yes I understand your point, and its wrong. A dog owner is not always to blame for a dog that snaps. Some dogs just go crazy one day, some breeds are more prone than others.
> 
> cheers


Maybe not, but they are *responsible* for it.


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## JeffH_PA (Nov 11, 2013)

You're right, my parents got a cocker spaniel puppy a few years ago. Something was wrong with it, it just wasn't wired quite right. It started out with weird stuff like if he saw you were going to sit on a chair, he'd run over to it, jump up and piss on it. After a few months he started to get violent. It bit my dad in the face for no reason while he was sleeping. They had to have it put down. It was sad, he was cute little guy even though he was demented. It wasn't his fault or my parents fault, there was something legitimately wrong with his brain, almost like he had doggie bipolar disorder.



abelfonseca said:


> Yes I understand your point, and its wrong. A dog owner is not always to blame for a dog that snaps. Some dogs just go crazy one day, some breeds are more prone than others.
> 
> cheers


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## Sevenrats (Jan 2, 2014)

I always carry pepper spray. I carry Mace PepperGard maximum formula. They actually make a formula that is specifically for dogs that is weaker because supposedly dogs are more sensitive to it. Screw that. I carry it for dogs and also coyotes, both the four legged AND two legged varieties. I have it velcro'd to the shoulder strap of my camelbak.


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## Sevenrats (Jan 2, 2014)

NateHawk said:


> Are you one of those dipshits that thinks it's funny when his chihuahua wants to eat someone, because it's magically okay because the dog is small, but when a big dog behaves that way, it's time to exterminate the breed?


Seriously? Clearly a chihuahua or a yorkie-poo that bites is annoying and isn't ok but that dog is never going to kill anyone. Pitbulls can be good dogs in the right hands. Unfortunately there is no way to know who's responsible and who's not. Those dogs can inflict horrendous injuries in seconds. It's horrible to think that people are maimed and killed by unprovoked pet dogs every year. It should never happen. You can't compare a chihuahua attack to a pit bull attack. It's like comparing a leopard to a siamese cat. They're almost different species.


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## pizon (Jul 7, 2009)

I think the comment is related more to dog vs owner. Any breed can be mishandled and become dangerous. Sure with a chihuahua the end result is less deadly, but its not really an exuse to not train your damn dog because its too small to do any harm, or to call for extermination of another breed because it has bigger teeth. Train your dogs dammit

Sent from my HTC-X710a using Tapatalk


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## Sevenrats (Jan 2, 2014)

pizon said:


> I think the comment is related more to dog vs owner. Any breed can be mishandled and become dangerous. Sure with a chihuahua the end result is less deadly, but its not really an exuse to not train your damn dog because its too small to do any harm, or to call for extermination of another breed because it has bigger teeth. Train your dogs dammit
> 
> Sent from my HTC-X710a using Tapatalk


I agree it's not ok for any dog to be biting people but the implications of aggression in some breeds are very different. Most dog bites are just that, a single bite usually due to fear. People don't often get mauled by golden retrievers. When pit bulls get aggressive the results are usually terrible.

Imagine you're riding alone down a trail. You suddenly see a dog standing in the trail facing you.

It's a poodle. You think, oh crap I hope I don't have to kick this dog. What the heck is he doing out here in the woods? He's going to be coyote lunch.

It's a golden retriever. You think, hi buddy! What are you doing all alone out here? Are you lost? What a nice boy! pat pat pat&#8230;

It's a pit bull. You think, Whoa&#8230; Holy ****. Please don't kill me. Where's my f#[email protected]@%$$ pepper spray????!!

Not the same.


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

pizon said:


> I think the comment is related more to dog vs owner. Any breed can be mishandled and become dangerous. Sure with a chihuahua the end result is less deadly, but its not really an exuse to not train your damn dog because its too small to do any harm, or to call for extermination of another breed because it has bigger teeth. Train your dogs dammit


Precisely. Bad training by an owner is no reason to exterminate an entire breed. perhaps we should exterminate owners who can't train their dogs, regardless of whether the dog is a pit bull or a chihuahua.


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## pizon (Jul 7, 2009)

Animals are unpredictable in general though. I had been bitten by a shitty 1ft height mutt before, and not touched by ultra agro pitbulls(they were used as guard dogs) that got loose from thier property. I wouldnt pat a strange retriever I found in the woods anymore than I would pat a pitbull

Sent from my HTC-X710a using Tapatalk


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

pizon said:


> I wouldnt pat a strange retriever I found in the woods anymore than I would pat a pitbull


Except that labs/retrievers are responsilbe for more attack/injuries than any other breeds. I'll let you look up the stats. They are common, and many people see them as "family" dogs, and neglect to train them, socialize them, or ever let them leave the backyard. Then when they do interact with other people/dogs, they are ill equiped and "just snap without warning unpredictably". 

Anyone who thinks animals are unpredictable should not be allowed to have one, as it is clear that they don't understand how to train, treat, or read animals. That is what makes them unpredictable.


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## Sevenrats (Jan 2, 2014)

Labs and retrievers are responsible for a lot of bites just because there are so many of them. Most of those are just bites. Maulings are almost non existent by that breed.


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## pizon (Jul 7, 2009)

I dont think they are unpredictable if they are trained properly. I may have misworded it, but I dont think making assumptions on friendliness of dogs you find in the woods based on breed is a good way of handling a situation.
In relation to pitbulls, I often see "thuggish" persons for lack of better descriptor owning them. I think that is due to their history as fighting dogs and to the fact that there are tons of rap (I love rap, and dont mean to bag on it) videos featuring snarling pitbulls. These people get pitbulls due to the image, and probably have no intention on properly training the dogs, hence the negative rep pitbulls get.


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

Sevenrats said:


> Labs and retrievers are responsible for a lot of bites just because there are so many of them. Most of those are just bites. Maulings are almost non existent by that breed.


Which is what I said. They are common. That doesn't negate that they attack, or the reasons for it.

Bites can scar for life mentally and physically. No such thing as "just a bite."

Why are the morans here not calling for the total extermination of these breeds that cause the majority of attack/injuries?


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## John Serkaian (Oct 11, 2013)

Halt is still sold at the local bike shops. I don't know if it would work on a Pitt Bull. Anyone have more experience with Halt?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Sevenrats said:


> I agree it's not ok for any dog to be biting people but the implications of aggression in some breeds are very different. Most dog bites are just that, a single bite usually due to fear. People don't often get mauled by golden retrievers. When pit bulls get aggressive the results are usually terrible.
> 
> Imagine you're riding alone down a trail. You suddenly see a dog standing in the trail facing you.
> 
> ...


You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Any breed that's popular is notorious for bad behavior because idiots buy them, fail to train them, and then breed them again, creating a vicious cycle.

Goldens may not be as popular now as they once were, but they are still fairly popular. Just because they have a happy-go-lucky reputation doesn't mean that they're not responsible for biting a lot of people. That people THINK all goldens are happy-go-lucky is probably a big reason they bite so many. Just wait...before too long, we're going to start seeing a rise of bites from goldendoodles and maltipoos and puggles. A bite is a bite. They are all unacceptable. It really doesn't matter if a bite from a big dog results in immediate severe trauma and a bite from a little dog results in a scratch. They are both dog bites. The only distinction I make is my behavioral response to an aggressive big dog vs an aggressive little one.

This is the kind of idiot I'm talking about.

https://www.google.com/search?q=agg...zoCIBA&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg&biw=1447&bih=778&dpr=1

Lots of youtube vids of morons who think their aggressive chihuahuas are cute.

Furthermore, if you assess the danger of a dog by its breed and not by its behavior, you are the idiot. If you're not good at reading dogs, it's best to err on the side of caution and keep your distance no matter what kind it is. But someone who OWNS a dog should be able to read dogs well enough to know when one is friendly or not. When it's afraid, when it is territorial, when it's aggressive, and so on. You should know how to approach an unfamiliar dog so it trusts you.


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## Sevenrats (Jan 2, 2014)




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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

pizon said:


> I dont think they are unpredictable if they are trained properly. I may have misworded it, but I dont think making assumptions on friendliness of dogs you find in the woods based on breed is a good way of handling a situation.
> In relation to pitbulls, I often see "thuggish" persons for lack of better descriptor owning them. I think that is due to their history as fighting dogs and to the fact that there are tons of rap (I love rap, and dont mean to bag on it) videos featuring snarling pitbulls. These people get pitbulls due to the image, and probably have no intention on properly training the dogs, hence the negative rep pitbulls get.


Exactly. Its the owners. Not the dogs. If you "totally exterminate the breed", as some have called for, these "thugish" types will simply find the next closest "bad ass" breed to sooth their fragile egos.

Extermination of the breed does not solve the problem, as I stated earlier.

It is not the breed.


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

NateHawk said:


> You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Any breed that's popular is notorious for bad behavior because idiots buy them, fail to train them, and then breed them again, creating a vicious cycle.
> 
> Goldens may not be as popular now as they once were, but they are still fairly popular. Just because they have a happy-go-lucky reputation doesn't mean that they're not responsible for biting a lot of people. That people THINK all goldens are happy-go-lucky is probably a big reason they bite so many. Just wait...before too long, we're going to start seeing a rise of bites from goldendoodles and maltipoos and puggles. A bite is a bite. They are all unacceptable. It really doesn't matter if a bite from a big dog results in immediate severe trauma and a bite from a little dog results in a scratch. They are both dog bites. The only distinction I make is my behavioral response to an aggressive big dog vs an aggressive little one.
> 
> ...


Exactly. 100 % Awesome. We need to go for a beer.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

John Serkaian said:


> Halt is still sold at the local bike shops. I don't know if it would work on a Pitt Bull. Anyone have more experience with Halt?


There's really nothing that makes a pit bull any different from other dogs. It is still a dog. What you should be more concerned about is the dog's motivation. Most dogs just want to chase and nip and it doesn't take too much to make them stop. But most things won't force them to rethink chasing someone else later. Pepper spray is a more forceful way of making your point that encourages them to rethink chasing cyclists again.

A truly dangerous dog that wants to maul you may be different, whether that's a pit bull or a german shepherd or something else. Those dogs are not as common as the media would like you to believe. The available data points on using pepper spray on these kinds of dogs is going to be very small. Small enough that you're not going to be able to get much out of them. If you are concerned, you could try bear spray, but it is strong enough that it is typically covered under stronger restrictions for its purchase and use.


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## Sevenrats (Jan 2, 2014)

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Any breed that's popular is notorious for bad behavior because idiots buy them, fail to train them, and then breed them again, creating a vicious cycle.

So what's your point? We should all feel good when a pit bull kills someone because it was the owners fault? I'm sure all the victims will be reassured by that. 

It doesn't make any difference why the dogs attack! They do attack and kill. 32 deaths from dog attacks in 2013 and over 80% of those were pit bulls and rottwielers. Those are the stats. 

Obviously any dog could kill someone, they're predatory animals at their origin. There has to be a point where the damage is unacceptable. Over 20 people by a single breed in one year should mean enough is enough.


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

Sevenrats said:


>


So I talk about labs/retrievers in terms of more BITE and ATTACKs than any other breed (precisely because they are more common), and you post a 9 year FATALITY chart from a website (WITHOUT LINKING TO THE SOURCE of the chart, of course) from a *"website about dangerous dogs -- primarily pit bull type dogs.*" That advocates a Pit bull ban: "*Pit bull ban: A breed ban is the most proactive policy that can be undertaken regarding the pit bull problem. A ban saves the most human lives by preventing attacks before they occur. By criminalizing pit bull breeding, a ban saves countless pit bulls from systematic euthanization and dramatically reduces the number of pit bulls used for dogfighting.*"

About Us - DogsBite.org.

Wow. The fail and stupid are strong with you.

Now we know (1) you have no reasonable case and are not interested in honest discussion (2) are a troll who is at the very least disingenuous about the "data" you cherry pick.

You are irrelevant to this conversation.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Sevenrats said:


> So what's your point? We should all feel good when a pit bull kills someone because it was the owners fault? I'm sure all the victims will be reassured by that.
> 
> It doesn't make any difference why the dogs attack! They do attack and kill. 32 deaths from dog attacks in 2013 and over 80% of those were pit bulls and rottwielers. Those are the stats.
> 
> Obviously any dog could kill someone, they're predatory animals at their origin. There has to be a point where the damage is unacceptable. Over 20 people by a single breed in one year should mean enough is enough.


Dangerous dogs should be removed from the population. I'm not saying they're lovely and all dogs should be kept alive and all that hippy ****. I'm saying judge the individual dog on its behavior, and not on its breed. You could replace "pit bull" with "black man" or "Mexican" in everything you say, and maybe you'd see how unacceptable it is, eh? Maybe not. Maybe to drive the point home, we should say it this way:



> It doesn't make any difference why people attack! They do attack and kill. 32 deaths from people attacks in 2013 and over 80% of those were *white people* and *black people*. Those are the stats.


So would you also say that an entire race of people should be exterminated because they are responsible for too many murders?

Your chart is fascinating, but you don't reference the source or include a title or anything that explains precisely what the chart is illustrating. I could make something like that, too.


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## pizon (Jul 7, 2009)

Males over 6ft tall and 200 pounds clearly can cause more damage to a person than smaller dudes of shrimpy stature. Exterminate all males over 6ft and 200 pounds!

Sent from my HTC-X710a using Tapatalk


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

NateHawk said:


> Dangerous dogs should be removed from the population. I'm not saying they're lovely and all dogs should be kept alive and all that hippy ****. I'm saying judge the individual dog on its behavior, and not on its breed. You could replace "pit bull" with "black man" or "Mexican" in everything you say, and maybe you'd see how unacceptable it is, eh? Maybe not. Maybe to drive the point home, we should say it this way:
> 
> So would you also say that an entire race of people should be exterminated because they are responsible for too many murders?
> 
> Your chart is fascinating, but you don't reference the source or include a title or anything that explains precisely what the chart is illustrating. I could make something like that, too.


Killing it.

See my previous post re: source of his "data"


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

pizon said:


> males over 6ft tall and 200 pounds clearly can cause more damage to a person than smaller dudes of shrimpy stature. Exterminate all males over 6ft and 200 pounds!
> 
> Sent from my htc-x710a using tapatalk


HA! too funny.


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## Sevenrats (Jan 2, 2014)

U.S. Dog Bite Statistics - DogsBite.org

You call me stupid. You make ridiculous analogies. The statistics speak for themselves. Two breeds are responsible for more fatal dog attacks than all other breeds, including mixed breeds combined. 176 people have been killed by just one breed alone. I understand you like these dogs and I have met several of them and they seemed like nice dogs. It doesn't change the facts.

From the Center for Disease Control.

http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Sevenrats said:


> U.S. Dog Bite Statistics - DogsBite.org


An unbiased source, indeed.


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## Sevenrats (Jan 2, 2014)

It's biased because the organization was formed because of all the people being mauled. The organization only exists because of those statistics.


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

Sevenrats said:


> It's biased because the organization was formed because of all the people being mauled. The organization only exists because of those statistics.


No. You fail and lie again.

About Us - DogsBite.org

"About the founder

Colleen Lynn resides in Austin, Texas and operates Lynn Media Group. On June 17th, 2007, she was attacked for approximately 5-seconds by a leashed pit bull while jogging in her former Seattle neighborhood. She was hospitalized for two days at Harborview Medical Center after undergoing surgery to repair a severe bone fracture. Four months later, she launched DogsBite.org. Learn more about Colleen in her four year anniversary blog post about her attack."

You keep proving to the rest of us how irrelevant you are to this discussion. You can stop making yourself look like a lying ******* troll fool anytime you chose. I, for one, am going to stop validating your uninformed and disingenuous existence. I suggest others do the same.


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## Sevenrats (Jan 2, 2014)

The woman was attacked by a pit bull for 5 seconds and ended up in the hospital for 2 days and having surgery and that's what you're using for your argument that these dogs are perfectly safe? hahahhahaaaaa!!!! That's funny right there. 

You guys defending these dogs as safe are just as radical as those who want them exterminated. I never said that. To pretend though, that pit bulls are not responsible for attacks is naive at best.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Let's try this one, as a relatively unbiased source with over 50 citations for the raw data.

https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/B...of-Breed-in-Dog-Bite-Risk-and-Prevention.aspx


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Don't hate- I got no dog in this fight and have known some really sweet Pits. I don't think it's fair to compare different human races to dog breeds that have been intensively selected and bred based on specific characteristics for thousands of years- natural vs, unnatural selection.

I was thumbing through this and it's interesting to see how the situation has progressed through the years and how rampant it seems to have become (relatively). Maybe this is somehow inaccurate but it sure doesn't bode well for the poor pits reputation. Pretty grisly- Fatal dog attacks in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Sevenrats said:


> The woman was attacked by a pit bull for 5 seconds and ended up in the hospital for 2 days and having surgery and that's what you're using for your argument that these dogs are perfectly safe? hahahhahaaaaa!!!! That's funny right there.
> 
> You guys defending these dogs as safe are just as radical as those who want them exterminated. I never said that. To pretend though, that pit bulls are not responsible for attacks is naive at best.


Your misunderstanding of our position reflects the depth of your stupidity.

Judge the individual dogs, remove the dangerous ones from the population. Punish the owners of dangerous dogs severely. Doing this will change several things. It will remove tendencies towards aggression from a breed's stock. Responsible breeders already do this. Puppy mills and backyard breeders do not. It will reduce incidences of aggressive behavior in a breed due to genetic predispositions. It will never eliminate aggressive behavior because there will always be bad owners. But punishing bad owners who allow dogs to bite and hurt people will make it a serious issue and reduce problems, also.

Banning or exterminating a whole breed will only serve to push bad owners to another breed, and then that breed will get blamed for more attacks, and subsequently banned, and so on and so forth, without ever addressing the fact that PEOPLE are the root of this problem in the first place.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> Don't hate- I got no dog in this fight and have known some really sweet Pits. I don't think it's fair to compare different human races to dog breeds that have been intensively selected and bred based on specific characteristics for thousands of years- natural vs, unnatural selection.
> 
> I was thumbing through this and it's interesting to see how the situation has progressed through the years and how rampant it seems to have become (relatively). Maybe this is somehow inaccurate but it sure doesn't bode well for the poor pits reputation. Pretty grizzly- Fatal dog attacks in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Wikipedia is a bad source, too. Too easy for someone with a grudge to manipulate it. Sure, pit bulls are very strong dogs that cause a lot of damage when they attack. That's obvious and repeatedly pointing that out gets us nowhere. The references section in that page is very heavily biased towards newspaper and TV news sources. Of course, the more grisly an attack, the more newsworthy. Read the article I posted. Nothing but scholarly articles, and the conclusions drawn differ substantially from what the idiots are putting in here, in that dogsbite.org website, and on wikipedia. Namely, that breed popularity strongly influences bite statistics. Looking into specific places where different breeds are more popular shows that those dogs are most commonly involved in attacks and fatalities.

Pit bulls are hugely under-represented in breed registrations, too, meaning they're probably many times more popular than breed registrations suggest. Look at how many are in shelters. Many shelters have nothing but pit bulls in them. Any references showing the absolute number of bites or attacks attributed to a specific is making no effort to control for breed popularity, or any other contributing factor. And really, when it comes down to it, simple counts of anything are NOT statistics. Reporting those numbers under the guise of a "percentage" is really no different.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

NateHawk said:


> Wikipedia is a bad source, too.


Probably, but there doesn't seem to be any dispute about the number of fatalities per year, and they do at least provide sources. Personally I assess the situation dog by dog and am a lot more concerned about the big mean looking ones than I am the little mean looking ones. Cocker spaniels have been the worst IME, but I'm not too worried about one of them taking me down.


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## Hazerd Hownd (May 7, 2010)

Just don't come around our house because you might get licked on the nose or slobbered in the ears by our "killer" rescue pit bull Denver!


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

The Ninjas are here.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2014)

AZ said:


> The Ninjas are here.


 You don't know that, how could you know that? They're Ninjas! Your first clue that they're here is your quick/painful demise. As far as the rest of the comments go: Yes, I favor wiping out the Breed known as "POS Dog Owner", no I don't agree that a bigger man is more dangerous than a smaller one and neither do my good buddies Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris, Mace anything that ever attacks you or a member of your family, Mace any owner of anything that attacks you, when it comes to your children and danger take whatever steps are necessary and worry about the "Law" later (Seriously).

Now, I'm not a Pitbull expert but my son (3 at the time) was bitten on the face by our Weimeiener who never acted agressively until that day. We never beat that dog and I'd bet that she'd never been abused or neglected. Sometimes stuff happens. When it does you stop it and figure out how to keep it from happening again. In our case, the Weim went to a friends home (only adults and adult children) where it lived another 12 years without incident as was cherished as a perfectly mannered member of the family.


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

Hazerd Hownd said:


> Just don't come around our house because you might get licked on the nose or slobbered in the ears by our "killer" rescue pit bull Denver!


OH MY GOD!!!!!

THAT POOR CHILD!!!!!!

Good on ya. Rescues rule.

My vicious 100# ShepardXHusky rescue. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!


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## Gumbi4Prez (Jan 2, 2014)

This turned out lovely.


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## dang (Jan 20, 2004)

Flucod said:


> I usually stop and confront the dog. Most of the time they are chasing the bike not you. If not I use the bike as a shield and weapon if they do not back down. Usually only takes 20 feet of walking and the dog turns around.


this is exactly what I do. if chasing right behind I abruptly stop and sometimes they run into my rear tire and run away. if not, I get off and charge them using my bike as a shield and weapon. so far none have continued after charging them, ready do whatever it takes to defend myself.


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## dang (Jan 20, 2004)

he gets the reward for having the best response. as a human I don't have to tolerate some wild animal trying to kill or maim me . f that. I'm doing whatever it takes


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

Flucod said:


> I usually stop and confront the dog. Most of the time they are chasing the bike not you. If not I use the bike as a shield and weapon if they do not back down. Usually only takes 20 feet of walking and the dog turns around.





dang said:


> this is exactly what I do. if chasing right behind I abruptly stop and sometimes they run into my rear tire and run away. if not, I get off and charge them using my bike as a shield and weapon. so far none have continued after charging them, ready do whatever it takes to defend myself.


Yes. The technique dang and Flucod describe also works on a herd of pissed off elk, bears, and deer...but not on moose.


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2014)

iscariot said:


> Yes. The technique dang and Flucod describe also works on a herd of pissed off elk, bears, and deer...but not on moose.


+1 for a .338 Win for the Moose.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

If you exterminate the breed the thug dog owners will go on to the next "aggressive" breed. Years ago It was Rottweilers and Dobermans or even German Shepherds. If not them, what's next. Sure any dog can be aggressive no matter how big or small but how many people are killed or seriously injured in Pomeranian attacks every year? 

That being said, I am for states requiring a license to own these breeds that have the potential to be dangerous. The requirements would be similar to that of a hand gun license. If you have a felony conviction, no Pit for you. Also if you act irresponsible the license can be revoked. I am also for more accountability to the owners in the case of an attack no matter what the breed. You want a pit, fine. Your pit kills somebody then you go to jail for at least manslaughter. None of this "he never did it before BS. If they can prove you have knowledge of your dog being aggressive then you are charged with murder. This would be the same if your Pomeranian kills somebody too. No matter what the breed, it is your responsibility to maintain control of your animals at all times.


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

Gumbi4Prez said:


> This turned out lovely.


dog threads always do. I lived in rural Appalachia for most of my life. Back when, the mutts out in the country were generally trained to be vicious. I have never met a dog that wouldn't respond to a strong command from a rider. I'm sure they exist, it's just that I've never met one. There is a dog near here that has a reputation for chasing cyclists and looks and acts really scary. I was always pretty afraid of this dog, because he would get a full head of steam up and he lives on a 20% grade hill, so the only way to escape is to turn around and ride back the way you came -- not what you want to do. One day, I didn't see him until he comes charging down the hill at me. I yelled, "NO" in my command voice and he sat down. This has happened to me many times. So I'm generally not in the camp that thinks permanently injuring a dog is something I'm prepared to do short of actual contact. OTOH, I have punched and kicked dogs that got too close before I realized they were there.

As far as permanently injuring dogs, I don't think it's a good idea. We were out riding and apparently a dog saw us after we passed by and started chasing. I never saw the dog at all, but I heard it get run over by a car. Apparently it died fairly quickly. 10 minutes later, the owner chased us down -- livid, apparently at us. If we had actually done something to the dog, I think it would have gotten ugly. Not good for our ride, us, the (former) dog owner, or society in general.


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## kubikeman (Jun 4, 2010)

Deleted.


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## kubikeman (Jun 4, 2010)

Deleted.


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

kubikeman said:


> Below are two images of 50 dogs. Only 2 are pitty's. Can you spot them?


2 Pittys. That's impossible.

The photographers never would have survived taking the picture.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

without reading this thread let me try to guess what the gist of it is.

- pits are baby killing landsharks
- pits are the most loyalest affectionate softies

- it's the owner
- it's the breed

- kill them with knife
- hand strangle them
- poke eyes
- LOL, you cannot kill a giant uberstrong schwarzeneggar pittie!!

- chihuahua's bite too
- but it's cute

- you're an idiot
- no, i'm brilliant

- that source is biased
- it's from wiki....and a 30 second google search

- OMG THIS IS WHY I CARRY A GRENADE
- dummy, you have better chance of being struck by lightning

- useless chart
- useless stats

- U!!!!!!!
- NO, U!

am i close?


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## Gumbi4Prez (Jan 2, 2014)

CHUM said:


> without reading this thread let me try to guess what the gist of it is.
> 
> - pits are baby killing landsharks
> - pits are the most loyalest affectionate softies
> ...


You left out sticking fingers in the dogs butt. Other than take. Your fairly accurate. It's about time for a dog as riding buddy thread. It's been Atleast a month.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

kubikeman said:


> Okay Mr. Statistician. According to this chart there were 176 fatalities over a nine year period. That's on average 19 - 20 deaths per year.
> 
> Each year, 36,000 people die from the flu.
> 
> Spend $20 on the flu shot instead of mace. Your coworkers will thank you.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

CHUM said:


> without reading this thread let me try to guess what the gist of it is.
> 
> - pits are baby killing landsharks
> - pits are the most loyalest affectionate softies
> ...


Add Ninja's and you nailed it.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

CHUM said:


> without reading this thread let me try to guess what the gist of it is.
> 
> - pits are baby killing landsharks
> - pits are the most loyalest affectionate softies
> ...


For the most part, yes.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Chum, your summary suggests it's pointless for us to share our useless thoughts.


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

CHUM said:


> without reading this thread let me try to guess what the gist of it is.
> 
> - pits are baby killing landsharks
> - pits are the most loyalest affectionate softies
> ...


Maybe they should just shut down MTBR, every other forum in existence, and the internet, because there's no use in talking about anything, as everything is a predictable foregone conclusion...

At least then the world wouldn't need your super-moderation and you could get on with your life.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

kubikeman said:


> You know it's funny, if I walked up to someone on the street and asked them if they could help me solve a second-order nonlinear ordinary differential equation describing the motion of a pendulum of length L, they would look at me like I'm crazy and shake their head no.
> 
> Bring up dog breeds and behavior and suddenly everyone's an expert. Let's see how many people can actually identify the breed that's causing all this hubbub. Please, if you've seen this test, don't spoil it. Below are two images of 50 dogs. Only 2 are pitty's. Can you spot them?
> 
> ...


Clearly, they're all crazy pit bull dogs. Just look at 'em.


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## JeffH_PA (Nov 11, 2013)

A few years ago a very good friend of mine adopted a pit bull from the local shelter. One of the things I noticed was that selection is extremely limited. Pits, Rotts, and Dobermans to a lesser degree. Dogs that I guess give people bad ass and gangster status.

As we browsed the cages looking for her new dog the vast majority of the dogs looked confused, scared, and lonely. And then there were those other ones that you just knew something was wrong, they gave off a bad vibe. They weren't aggressive but not friendly, just indifferent would be the best word. It really bummed me out that the people that put so much stock in these breeds for sport/protection/whatever were also the same asses that were so quick to drop them off in the street. I had a conversation with the woman in charge, she said it was rare that anyone actually brought a dog to the shelter, most of them were picked up running loose.

Anyway, my friend ended up adopting a pit bull, a scrawny, timid thing around 4 years old or so. She was taken from an owner that pretty much staked her out in the yard and forgot about her. I guess she was too small to make money at the fights. Everytime you would raise your hand to pet her she would flinch.

2 years later she's now a very happy and fat pit bull. One of the sweetest dogs I've ever met. I can't imagine her ever attacking anything or anyone. Hell, she adopted a kitten.

Pits get a bad rap, and I've seen why first hand. Back in the '90s my grandparents had a collie mix named Sheba. She was an absolutely gorgeous dog. Smart, friendly, fun, good with kids, everything you would want in a pet. One summer some people moved in 2 houses down that I guess were avid pit bull enthusiast wanna bes. They would take their dogs out in the back yard and teach them to attack things on command. One of the idiots would even put on a padded suit and helmet, kind of like you see police dogs on TV. Why exactly who the hell knows. Nothing against beer cans and tats and 81 Chevettes with Cragars but definitely Jerry Springer white trash.

Anyway, during one of their 'training' sessions their pit named King easily hurdled the 2 fences in between him and Sheba. It was the saddest thing I've ever seen in my life. King removed Sheba's face. It was like something out of a horror movie. My uncle got King permanently calmed down with a baseball bat, while his owner yelled and threatened and promised legal action. Some people are just too stupid and ignorant to live.

My uncle ended up putting poor Sheba out of her misery with his .22 pistol. He and I then picked up Kings body and carried him back down the alley and dumped him over the fence of his owners yard. No one said anything at that point. We then buried Sheba. It was a sad day.

What's the point of this drawn out story? Hell I don't know. I've seen pits raised wrong by a-holes that turned out to be sweethearts when adopted by someone decent, and I've seen pits that were raised by a-holes to be mean and fight go off the deep end. When a dog like a pit bull decides he's going to kill something you ain't gonna stop it unless you kill it. It's a damn shame.

I know this isn't really on topic or really served any purpose to the thread but I had a good time doing shots of Jim Beam and writing it so thanks! Have a great weekend.


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## bikerecker (Jan 30, 2004)

Thanks for calling it in. The dog is a general menace. I don't think such an obviously aggressive dog would be deterred by water in the face or even mace. I would avoid that yard until the dog is dealt with.


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## Flyin_W (Jun 17, 2007)

Observations from a lurker:
CHUM is an ace at prediction.
All threads containing guns, dogs, guns, and wheel size WILL turn into pissing matches.
Despite opinions, or being PC - profiling does work, and insurance co's rely on it to be profitable.

While we may all disagree, I turn to the actuaries who filter data by breed to determine their risk exposure.
The avg. cost of a dog bite claim now is $30,000, and the following breeds are most likely excluded from your homeowner's policy. (Based on CDC stats, please check your policy before calling bullshiite.)
Like it or not, their denying coverage directly impacts breed choice, and I've learned the hard way not to own one listed.

Top 7 Dangerous Dog Breeds | PropertyCasualty360

"If ever in doubt, cram two fingers up it's ass."


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## bikerecker (Jan 30, 2004)

A friend of mine is an expert dog kicker and knocked one out with a swift kick to the head once. He may have killed it, they didn't hang around to see. One of my proudest achievements as a cyclist was the time I kicked two dogs with direct hits to the head in a quarter mile or so, one with left foot, the next with the right. Both dogs turned around after they encountered my sz 48 carbon soled feet...


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## KevXR (Feb 14, 2012)

If you don't like the dog, blame the people end of the leash.

If sixteen year olds could all own Porsches, they would be the biggest killing machines in America. You don't need much money, a license, or common sense to get a Pittbull. I know some people that have adopted stray Pitts and they are the sweetest dogs. The problem is wannabe bad asses that either ignore or tech the dog to be tough.

I had two Rottweilers, another breed people fear. Mine were the biggest clowns around. Their personally is more like a Labrador. They love to follow owners, play fetch and swim. Since my Rotties. We're more likely to bite a lawyer than a burglar, I spent time socializing them. Lots of time, they went to work at the office, I spent about 18 hours a day with them. No need for them to protect the house, they bark, I can call the police or grab a shotgun if needed. 

Dogs on chains as watch dogs is just a bad combo if they Get loose.


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## bikerecker (Jan 30, 2004)

Speaking of "real", how many dogs have you dispatched?


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

Flyin_W said:


> CHUM is an ace at prediction.


He did forget to include the part where some douchebag super-moderator chimes in to recount his douchy version of the thread in which he lambastes the very posters on the forum he chooses to moderate.

He is welcome to leave if he is so over it.


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## KevXR (Feb 14, 2012)

What to do if attacked. We were cornered by a large lab. A 100lb dog snarling, no matter what breed is dangerous.

My friend grabbed his mtn bike midway down the downtube. He grabbed the handlebar stem. The bike naturally balanced horizontally. Now he had a wide shield with tires on both ends and a chain ring in the middle. He fended off the dog attack. The dog was startled by the swinging bike and tires swinging by its head. No need to poke it with the chain ring, but he could have.


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## KevXR (Feb 14, 2012)

Take a tip from the Postal service.
Bring dog treats.
Bring spray if the treats don't work, but only as a last resort.

My carrier loved my Rotties.

Some breeds will chase bikes due to,their herding instinct. You have the choice of sprinting or stopping.


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## criscobike (Feb 21, 2013)

KevXR said:


> Take a tip from the Postal service.
> Bring dog treats.
> Bring spray if the treats don't work, but only as a last resort.
> 
> ...


Instinct has A LOT to do with it. Just about any dog can be trained to do this or that, be more pleasant socially or be an attack dog. But no matter what, it always take diligence and a watchful eye. Just because a dog "would never" because they are the "sweetest thing" doesn't mean that instinct can't suddenly kick in when you least expect it. Various breeds were bread for certain things and you can't just pull out all that genetics just because you think they look pretty and you give them a nice loving home. 
When I was a kid, my best friend's family had a retriever. That thing was awesome and we loved it. I always felt perfectly safe. They had him for years and he never showed anything but the most pleasant and loving disposition. Then one day while we were playing with him in the front yard a little toddler was out walking with his parents and at that second, for some reason, the dogs retrieval instinct kicked in and he went for the little kid. The end of the bad scene was that the dog was put down. It happens. 
I have a little Shug (Pug-Shitz mix) that is a harmless fraidy cat. She has been perfect around our little kids and we love her to death, but that doesn't stop me from watching her closely. And keeping her on a leash when out for a walk and keeping her next to me at all times is just part of the gig. I know that she's a dog.
I have been chased down on my bike by a Boxer breed and gave it a swift kick to the head. You do what it takes.


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## picassomoon (Jun 16, 2009)

I just skimmed the thread (because its essentially identical to every other pit bull thread on the internet) after seeing MTBR link it on Facebook, so forgive me if this has been mentioned.....but.....

The thing is for us (cyclists) is that dogs are inherently unpredictable. The only cycling related dog bite I've had in hundreds of interactions was an overweight couch potato collie mix who's owner swore he'd never so much as growled at a human before. The bike is big (I'm 6'3", on my bike that's like 10 plus feet tall, a dog is like knee high to a human for most breeds) with a ton of rapidly moving parts and traveling at a high rate of speed. Dogs don't know WTF is going on and they react in defense. 

The pit bull conversation has its place, but in terms of cycling its best to realize that dogs don't understand what they see when they encounter a bike. Give them room, and give them more room when the owner has a slack leash going on. No excuses for OP and a loose dog with a back yard near trails. Report that bastard IMO.


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## cyclekitty (Jan 9, 2014)

Don't mace!!!!! This is a hard thing when it happens but you don't want to mace a doggie or anything else. When I see a dog loose if I'm solo, I re-route, not worth getting chomped on. If in a group, make noise to scare the dog off, pedal your caboose off, if the dog approaches you, sometimes a squirt from the water bottle is enough to make it retreat.


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## Brewtality (Jul 25, 2007)

cyclekitty said:


> Don't mace!!!!! This is a hard thing when it happens but you don't want to mace a doggie or anything else.


Why?!?! Fawk that. If a dog (or anything else) is on the attack, I am going to protect myself with whatever is necessary. Foot, mace, CCW, I don't care. if its me or Fido, well, thats too fawking bad for Fido.


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## Axxis (Sep 9, 2012)

When I was a teenager there was a nasty pitt bull that used to terrorize us on a regular basis. One day I took along the crossbar from my parents roof rack (removed from the car at the time). When the dog ran at me I gave it a nice large swing and whacked the ****er in the head HARD. Full momentum from my cycling and the circular swing action. That dog survived but never attacked another cyclist. I love dogs but some really need to be taught a lesson.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

kubikeman said:


> Deleted.


Coming back and deleting posts is pointless especially when those posts have already been quoted.


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## abegold (Jan 30, 2004)

Last time a dog (3rd time with the same dog) chased me I slowed rapidly, faster than the dog could (disc brakes) and rolled right over both from paws. Never saw that dog again.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for the negative rep. Insert double eye roll.


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## Shane5001 (Dec 18, 2013)

Finish your ride like you did and enjoy the day. Then go back and beat it to death with a baseball bat. I work in an ER and can't even count how many pitbull bites come in, don't care what anyone says, I see physical evidence. I have also been riding since childhood and have been attacked multiple times by numerous types of dogs. I have no tolerance for this, and no real love for other peoples dogs. I don't know what the laws for carrying a pistol are in abx, I always wanted to bolt a small holster to my seatpost. Around here I have "Brian," one of my riding buddies who dogs seem to flock to instead of me.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

yea Shane a gun works but a samurai sword screams Ninja, doubt the dog would even mess with you.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Burt4x4 said:


> If a dog bites me I will kill it with my hands, my bike, my knife... that rock... on the spot! If it even tries to harm one of my kids I will hunt it down, end of story!
> I do not tolerate violent dogs, period!
> 
> Sorry if this is too real for some of you...





veloborealis said:


> And the award for the most over-the-top macho response goes to... Burt4x4! Thanks for the dose of "reality".


I don't think this is over the top at ALL. Control your god damn dogs or they are going to get an equal reaction from people such as myself. Your dog harms my child, consider your dog dead. That's how I roll... not a tough guy attitude at all - but bicycles and the people riding them ARE NOT PREY for your dog! If you do not control them I will.

This is an especially touchy subject right now because my local club has been working on a new trail system and have over 300 hours in, and now we are facing opposition from the other park users - dog owners - that we are somehow taking over their park and bla bla bla... even though the only area in the entire recreation area that is for dog use is a fenced in area. Well they all think they can walk their dogs off leash and do whatever they want anywhere in the park - and now of course we had a rider get bitten. The person then made the comment "too bad they let bikes in here"... like its the bikers fault!!!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

"Dad why did that idiot Mace me. All I did was sniff and lick him".


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> "Dad why did that idiot Mace me. All I did was sniff and lick him".


Because little one there are idiots in the world. Out there, in here, seem to find some every where.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

veloborealis said:


> And the award for the most over-the-top macho response goes to... Burt4x4! Thanks for the dose of "reality".


Sorry, but I agree with him. If a dog attacks me, it dies. I'm an animal lover but I will not hesitate to put down a violent animal. They are not people. We can't lock them up. They are "animals" yea we create bonds with them but they're still animals. I've had to put down my own. It's just the way it is.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

theMeat said:


> Because little one there are idiots in the world. Out there, in here, seem to find some every where.


"I know but I was wagging my tail a sure sign of play and friendliness" 
"Why are some humans so soon to respond in such a harsh manner"


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> "I know but I was wagging my tail a sure sign of play and friendliness"
> "Why are some humans so soon to respond in such a harsh manner"


Guy... cute dog. But we are talking if a dog runs up and bites you. Most parents also have that animal instinct to protect their offspring... hence the your dog will be dead if it bites my child comments. Most of us know the difference between a happy friendly dog and one that wants to attack and harm you.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> "Dad why did that idiot Mace me. All I did was sniff and lick him".


The idiot would be the guy that failed to control his/her dog.

If you have a dog that strikes fear in to people and you fail to control that dog you can't 
be upset if somebody pepper sprays the dog no matter how nice the dog may be. You can't expect people to lose their fears as long as their are still stories of attacks and bad owners.

I am sure your dog is friendly but you can't expect people to know the signs. Not everyone is dog lovers.

I personally have no issues with the breed and have friends that have the sweetest pits. However they control them and their dogs don't go up to random strangers.


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## redd4573 (Apr 15, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> "Dad why did that idiot Mace me. All I did was sniff and lick him".


I have to say that looks like a public bike path? What is missing in the picture, a leash. See that is the problem, I do not recall a single story where people are complaining about getting bit by any dogs when they were riding trough a dog park, or riding through a dog owners back yard, why is that? Because bicyclest would not be so rude to do such a thing. But it seems like SOME dog owners feel they are intitled to take thier PET any where they damn well please. That is the problem, strangers do not know if your dogs are mean or not and some people are just afraid of them. So do yourselfs and the public a huge favor and just be responsible for your and your pets actions.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

If it is a national forest they don't require the dogs to be on leashes (at least in my area).
However they do require your dog to be in control at all times. This means the dog should not be out of eye and ear shot and obedient to commands. It also means they should not be running up to random strangers where they could scare them to the point where they feel threatened or getting in front of bikes where they cause a crash. I love dogs but it pisses me off when they jump in front of my bike. I want hit the owner instead. 

State forests here in NC do require leashes. Not that it is usually obeyed. 

Maybe the answer is pepper spray owners who don't obey the laws with their pets.


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## Way2ManyBikes (Aug 24, 2011)

I live with this fear and it's justifiable for me. My cousin's mother was attacked by a pitbull she was disemboweled and her throat severed from her neck by a pitbull while running on the trail. 

The dog had gotten free and was roaming in the Forest preserve. Another woman stopped to help her and was attacked viciously by the dog also. Luckily she lived but I don't know the extent of her injuries. 

I considered riding with a knife strapped to my calf and wouldn't have a problem killing an animal. 

So for me it's kill or be killed !


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

As much as it's the owner that shapes a dog into who the dog is, I don't care who disagrees, I'm kicking/stabbing/spraying/etc whatever it takes to protect myself if a dog attacks me. I would feel bad afterwards, but I'm not going to sustain injury at the fault of someone else if I can help it.

I'm 6'6" 240lbs so hopefully a dog wouldn't attack to begin with, but if it did...


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## JeffH_PA (Nov 11, 2013)

Holy crap dude, that's terrible.



Way2ManyBikes said:


> I live with this fear and it's justifiable for me. My cousin's mother was attacked by a pitbull she was disemboweled and her throat severed from her neck by a pitbull while running on the trail.
> 
> The dog had gotten free and was roaming in the Forest preserve. Another woman stopped to help her and was attacked viciously by the dog also. Luckily she lived but I don't know the extent of her injuries.
> 
> ...


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Shane5001 said:


> Finish your ride like you did and enjoy the day. Then go back and beat it to death with a baseball bat. I work in an ER and can't even count how many pitbull bites come in, don't care what anyone says, I see physical evidence. I have also been riding since childhood and have been attacked multiple times by numerous types of dogs. I have no tolerance for this, and no real love for other peoples dogs. I don't know what the laws for carrying a pistol are in abx, I always wanted to bolt a small holster to my seatpost. Around here I have "Brian," one of my riding buddies who dogs seem to flock to instead of me.


Exactly right. I'm an Emergency Physician. Most dog bites I see are minor care kind of stuff. Clean the wound, antibiotics, and home. Pitbull attacks are usually significant traumas involving orthopedic consultation and admission.

I have never seen a lab, a German Shepherd, or a yorkie seriously injure anybody. It's always one bite and done.


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## mlennon (Oct 25, 2013)

(As a dog owner) I live in the country closest neighbor 1/2 mile away. 
Let me first say I am a dog owner (4 dogs, 1 of which is a lab that does not like strangers) And I love my dogs a lot. I did have one of my dogs(couple years ago) that got out of the fenced in area, and bit a runner on our road. I put the dog down that evening, I have zero tolerance for that. The runner did not do anything to provoke my dog. Our area has laws concerning detaining your animals, and having them in control. I am totally responsible for my animals actions. A loose dog is a liability and a possible danger.

(As a Cyclist)
If a dog comes from a persons property on to public prperty and attacks me. Biting and pulling off my bike. I am fully with in my right to defend myself to the point needed to get out of harms way. I am not saying a barking dog or chasing dog. I am talking about an animal that has drawn blood or has a hold of me. I will have no problem shooting the dog with my .38 or .45 As a ""final"" measure. If a dog attacks my 13 year old girl. The dog will be dead, and authorities will be called. And my lawyer will be called soon after.

As for barking&chasing dogs, water, water and vinegar, little air horn.

Sorry but I have been on both ends of this issue. People who own dogs do not realize they are a liability. You are responsible for your dogs actions, when they step off your property.

Matt L.


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## cerpindicular (Apr 4, 2012)

I was attacked on the trail today by this monster man eater...so i shoved two fingers up his butt and he proceeded to follow me home and now he won't leave me alone.

Seriously though something to think about with all the "pitbulls are evil and have the rate of attacks that cause severe damage/death". Pound for pound pitbulls and pitbulls breeds are some of the strongest dogs around so yes if they decided to bite the are going to leave a bigger mark then your 5 lbs chihuahua. At one point there was a pitbull (staffordshire terrier but everyone "thinks" they are pits and the same thing) that weighed something of like 40lbs that held a record weight pull for not only its weight class but dogs that also weighed 2-3 times more. Just as a example.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

redd4573 said:


> I have to say that looks like a public bike path? What is missing in the picture, a leash. See that is the problem, I do not recall a single story where people are complaining about getting bit by any dogs when they were riding trough a dog park, or riding through a dog owners back yard, why is that? Because bicyclest would not be so rude to do such a thing. But it seems like SOME dog owners feel they are intitled to take thier PET any where they damn well please. That is the problem, strangers do not know if your dogs are mean or not and some people are just afraid of them. So do yourselfs and the public a huge favor and just be responsible for your and your pets actions.


That's actually a mountain bike single track trail with a bridge crossing over a creek. And as far as a leash, does it look like he's out of control. And it doesn't matter to me anyway I didn't post those photos he did. And as far as a leash law on that trail there is one. But he can't get me to wear it.


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## Flyin_W (Jun 17, 2007)

cerpindicular said:


> I was attacked on the trail today by this monster man eater...so i shoved two fingers up his butt and he proceeded to follow me home and now he won't leave me alone.


Next time don't use lube. :-D


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## KevXR (Feb 14, 2012)

flyin_w said:


> next time don't use lube. :-d


lol.


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## SHARCRASH (Jan 21, 2014)

I have a large Am Staffordshire Terrier and let me tell you that he is such a gentle heart. So I don't get it when we talk about dangerous breeds as he is supposed to be. He is following a training though, forced by regulation if I want to walk with him loose, since 2 months, so he didn't learn much yet anyway. I admit his balls were cut out, so this might help. But no one should be judged based on appearance alone anyway, just like humans.

He has just a bad habit to run towards and say "Hey hi, who are you?". That's what I call "being social"  So it looks quite impressive but he never does anything, apart turning around. He always shakes tail or is simply scared if another dog or person is offensive. So again, I don't get it.

I do agree that people have to be carefull and defend themselves if they are attacked by some wako animal (humans included). Let me tell you that if I'm sure my dog didn't do anything and someone does severe harm to him as a first scared reflex, I'll do far worse to that person, I swear!

Of course if a dog is aggressive, most of the time it's human's fault! Humans have this bad habit to put the fault on something else. We are so intelligent. You know, it's just like kids who become punks, it's never the parent's fault... Or pollution, or violence for centuries (someone talked about video games?)... it's always something else's fault. Pff!


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## OldZaskar (Oct 18, 2007)

The part that I don't understand is why anyone chooses a pit as pet in the first place. I hear they can be sweet, gentle, etc. But, how and why did you find out? What's the point? There are sooooo many awesome breeds (the other 50% of the attacks/injuries/deaths) that need rescuing. Why deal with the social stigma (thug, white trash, idiot, etc.) and risk of lawsuits ('cause you know the judge/jury is going to treat your sweet pit very differently than that mean old Labradoodle if there ever is an incident). I just don't get it. Is it to prove a point? Is it because you wanted a puma or wolf and your county won't allow it? I just don't think there's a place in "this" society for that animal.


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## Hextall (Nov 25, 2013)

So... it seems like mace and or halt are good nonlethal ways to deter an attacking dog while biking. I'm not much of a dog person (and my daughter most certainly is not), but I know I won't carry a gun or want to permanently harm or kill a dog.

Can anyone post a picture how they attach a canister of spray deterrent to their backpack, or alternative places of attaching the spray can?


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## Lonecrow (Jun 20, 2011)

Given the proven history of the Pitbull on how dangerous
and unpredictable they are, even well trained bitbulls 
are prone to just snap its the nature of the beast,
they should be outlawed and rounded up and killed.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Hextall said:


> So... it seems like mace and or halt are good nonlethal ways to deter an attacking dog while biking. I'm not much of a dog person (and my daughter most certainly is not), but I know I won't carry a gun or want to permanently harm or kill a dog.
> 
> Can anyone post a picture how they attach a canister of spray deterrent to their backpack, or alternative places of attaching the spray can?


For bear season I use a camelback that is intended for backcountry skiing, it has a pocket that opens up from the bottom (instead of the top like most pockets) where you stick your avalanche probe, but it also works great for a canister of bear-spray, so at any time I'm moments away from unzipping this and it almost just "falls out".


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## SHARCRASH (Jan 21, 2014)

OldZaskar said:


> The part that I don't understand is why anyone chooses a pit as pet in the first place. I hear they can be sweet, gentle, etc. But, how and why did you find out? What's the point? There are sooooo many awesome breeds (the other 50% of the attacks/injuries/deaths) that need rescuing. ...


I agree with you, I hate the "fashionable" and "pro" breeds, just like bicycle brands!  Our Am Stafford T. (not a Pit) named Patch, is our second dog. Our first dog is smaller, a true sweet snorer named Muffin, but she can't make any sport with us. My girlfriend is veterinary and Patch was abandoned. If no one wanted him at the asylum, he'd be euthanized. So we adopted him. He can waste his excessive energy with us, I MTbike ride a lot and my girlfriend horse rides.


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## SHARCRASH (Jan 21, 2014)

Lonecrow said:


> Given the proven history of the Pitbull on how dangerous
> and unpredictable they are, even well trained bitbulls have
> are prone to just snap its the nature of the beast,
> they should be outlawed and rounded up and killed.


Just like humans for centuries... We should eradicate all of them, without any exception!!! ALL! It's a true virus spreading all over the world and doing more damage than goodness!


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## Njhardrock (Feb 17, 2013)

As a dog trainer i must say ive been bitten by more collies and shepards then any other breed.... Infact i work with yp to 10 dogs a day and ive never been bitten by a pit.... Im more gun shy around rottys.... Ive trained professional athletes dogs for protection... Infact i was mauled by a border collie that almost took my finger off... My 2 nd worst attck was a wacked cocker spaniel that severed a vein in my wrist.... There all animals... 

With that being said im not a huge fan of any locking jaw breed.. Only because they have the tools.... But any dog has the tools we just dont get scared of little fluffy dogs


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## Lonecrow (Jun 20, 2011)

SHARCRASH said:


> Just like humans for centuries... We should eradicate all of them, without any exception!!! ALL! It's a true virus spreading all over the world and doing more damage than goodness!


If you beloved Pit ever snaps and does injury to a person
and you are charged with felony assault you will change you
outlook really quickly....


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## Way2ManyBikes (Aug 24, 2011)

Enough Said

Authorities Seize Pit Bulls After Woman Fatally Mauled

Read more: Authorities Seize Pit Bulls After Woman Fatally Mauled | KTLA 5

LITTLEROCK, Calif. (KTLA) - Authorities seized a group of pit bulls they believe may have attacked and killed a woman out for a walk in the Antelope Valley on Thursday.

Sheriff's deputies carried eight dogs, six of them pit bulls, out of a house in the 37700 block of 115th Street in Littlerock around 5:30 p.m., authorities said.

Four people, two men and two women, were detained at the house by deputies.

The Los Angeles Department of Animal Care and Control responded to the call of a fatal pit bull attack around 9:30 a.m.

Pamela-Marie-Devitt
Pamela Marie Devitt, 63

The victim was identified by the L.A. County Coroner's Office as Pamela Marie Devitt, 63, of Littlerock.

She was out for her morning walk on Avenue S, between 110th Street East and 113th Street East, when she was attacked, authorities said.

Devitt died while being transported by ambulance to an area hospital.

A woman driving by saw a pack of dogs attacking the victim on the ground, said Lt. John Corina, of the L.A. County Sheriff's Department.

"She sees a group of dogs and it looks like they're attacking something," Corina said. "As she gets closer, she sees it's a woman face down on the ground."

The woman honked her horn to try to scare the dogs away, but they turned and attacked her car, biting at the tires, Corina said.

The driver called 911. When deputies arrived at the scene, the dogs turned on them, authorities said.

One of the deputies fired rounds toward the dogs, causing the animals to flee, sheriff's officials said in a statement.

The sheriff's department and the DACC launched a search for the dogs, using a helicopter and patrol cars.

L.A. County Supervisor Michael Antonovich offered a $25,000 reward for information leading to the capture of the dogs. Shortly before 7 p.m., he tweeted that they had been captured.

pit-bulls-seized
Authorities removed eight dogs, including six pit bulls, from a home in Littlerock on Thursday.

After receiving information from residents and animal control workers, deputies served a search warrant at the home in Littlerock.

While investigating the pit bulls at the house, deputies also found a marijuana growing operation.

A 29-year-old man was taken into custody on suspicion of cultivating marijuana. He could face additional charges if the dogs are linked to the deadly attack.

Authorities have not put the dogs down yet because they haven't completed DNA tests to determine if they killed the victim.

The dogs had been aggressive in the past, according to neighbors.

They had video of the dogs hopping over the fence at the house where they were found on Thursday.

"If there's people on horses or elderly people walking, they attack them," one man, who did not want to be identified, said.

"Three days ago [they] attacked a man on a horse with two kids on it," he said.

Read more: Authorities Seize Pit Bulls After Woman Fatally Mauled | KTLA 5


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

SHARCRASH said:


> .
> 
> He has just a bad habit to run towards and say "Hey hi, who are you?". ...
> 
> .... Let me tell you that if I'm sure my dog didn't do anything and someone does severe harm to him as a first scared reflex, I'll do far worse to that person, I swear!..


Dont expect a person to assume that a pitbull (or a pitbull look alike) bolting their way is just going to say "hey hi, who are you".

If you dont want your dog being killed or injured because he bolted towards someone, keep him on a leash.


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## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Way2ManyBikes said:


> Enough Said
> 
> Authorities Seize Pit Bulls After Woman Fatally Mauled
> 
> ...


Well it's obvious from this that these Pitbulls were simply suffering from the dreaded 'Reefer Madness'... they were seen hopping in and out of a pot growing operation, so evidently they had all been driven mad by the weed, and were overcome by the urge to kill at all costs!!!


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## Way2ManyBikes (Aug 24, 2011)

This changes everything. 

Now that pot is legal should we be worried about our kids eating us and do you think spraying them with a water bottle will work.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

OldZaskar said:


> The part that I don't understand is why anyone chooses a pit as pet in the first place. I hear they can be sweet, gentle, etc. But, how and why did you find out? What's the point? There are sooooo many awesome breeds (the other 50% of the attacks/injuries/deaths) that need rescuing. Why deal with the social stigma (thug, white trash, idiot, etc.) and risk of lawsuits ('cause you know the judge/jury is going to treat your sweet pit very differently than that mean old Labradoodle if there ever is an incident). I just don't get it. Is it to prove a point? Is it because you wanted a puma or wolf and your county won't allow it? I just don't think there's a place in "this" society for that animal.


It's because they're sweet, loyal, loving, and in general make great pets. People who claim fluffy never showed any signs of human aggression until it ripped the neighbor to shreds are full of sh!t. They just didn't recognize them or they ignored them.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Njhardrock said:


> im not a huge fan of any locking jaw breed.


fortunately, none exist.

From Dr. Howard Evans, Professor Emeritus, College of Veterinary Medicine at Cornell University, Ithaca New York and author of the textbook, ANATOMY OF THE DOG, (the world's definitive work on the anatomy of the dog):

_"I have spoken with [Dr.] Sandy deLahunta (the foremost dog neurologist in the country) and [DR.] Katherine Houpt (a leading dog behaviorist) about a jaw locking mechanism in pit bulls or any other dog and they both say, as do I, that *there is no such thing as "jaw locking" in any breed*.

We all agree that the power of the bite is proportional to the size of the jaws and the jaw muscles. *There is no anatomical structure that could be a locking mechanism in any dog*."_​


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## Way2ManyBikes (Aug 24, 2011)

mbmb65 said:


> It's because they're sweet, loyal, loving, and in general make great pets. People who claim fluffy never showed any signs of human aggression until it ripped the neighbor to shreds are full of sh!t. They just didn't recognize them or they ignored them.


I think your missing the point. Yes they are great dogs however there is a lot of risk associated with them. Same with Rotts and other similar dogs. When I was 16 I was attacked by a German Shepard. I got out of my car to buy a Mustang that was 4-Sale and as I stepped out of the car he latched on to my thigh, shock me like a rag doll and wouldn't let go. I had to shove my car keys in his eye (yes I blinded him) to get him to release me. The odd thing was I had just left there 2 hours early and he was the nicest sweetest dog ever. I feed him treats and he even jump up on me and kissed me.

Nothing changed in that 2 hours other then the fact that I had a pocket full of cash to buy the car. Needless to say after I injured the dog the owner told me that he wouldn't sell me the car.

What I forgot to mention was after he released me I jumped back in my car he jumped on the hood of the car and was doing his best to scratch through the windshield.

*So when oldZaskar asked why would you put yourself at risk owning such a dog ? *

Yes there loving just like all dogs. But I assure you my 8lb Yorkie/Pom mix might bite you but I doubt he has the strength to rip your finger off or tear out your throat.

Just like my X-Wife man she was nice. But holyshit you don't truly know a woman till you meet her ars in Court.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

SHARCRASH said:


> So I don't get it when we talk about dangerous breeds as he is supposed to be.


frequent news stories like this from yesterday.... toddler killed by pit bull



SHARCRASH said:


> He has just a bad habit to run towards and say "Hey hi, who are you?". That's what I call "being social"


you might wanna consider breaking him of that habit. were i to be the target of an unrestrained, charging pit bull my reaction (like that of many, MANY others) would be to neutralize the dog first and ask questions later. that's what i call "being cautious".


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

abelfonseca said:


> Dont expect a person to assume that a pitbull (or a pitbull look alike) bolting their way is just going to say "hey hi, who are you".
> 
> If you dont want your dog being killed or injured because he bolted towards someone, keep him on a leash.


QFT

Most places if they don't have a leash law still have a law requiring you to maintain control of your dog at all times. This means that if your dog has "a bad habit to run towards and say Hey hi, who are you?" to total strangers you are not in control of the animal. So if somebody gets scared and shoots your dog, it is your own damn fault.


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## STACK (Mar 23, 2009)

If you feel the need for mace, get the mace. Everything up to and including killing an animal that is attacking (not just with barks or aggressive posture, but with actual bites) you or your child is fully acceptable, and should be expected. But I don't like killing animals, so mace and a phone call seem like good options. 

After you mace the dog, you still make the call. To be honest, a pit like breed barked aggressively at my daughter one time, and I didn't call. Should I have? Probably. But it was the only time I saw it off its leash, and it ran straight home right after. Women seem to think it's cute sometimes when dogs attack people, so do trashy guys. It kind of turns my stomach how stupid some people are.


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## mappable (Aug 29, 2004)

*2-year-old girl mauled to death by pit bull*

I just saw about the 2 year old getting killed by a pit bull in Temple Tx on the local news website here in Austin and I thought of this thread.

[video]http://kxan.com/2014/02/18/central-texas-girl-2-fatally-mauled-by-dog/[/video]



monogod said:


> frequent news stories like this from yesterday.... toddler killed by pit bull
> 
> you might wanna consider breaking him of that habit. were i to be the target of an unrestrained, charging pit bull my reaction (like that of many, MANY others) would be to neutralize the dog first and ask questions later. that's what i call "being cautious".


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Way2ManyBikes said:


> I live with this fear and it's justifiable for me. *My cousin's mother was attacked by a pitbull *she was disemboweled and her throat severed from her neck by a pitbull while running on the trail.
> 
> The dog had gotten free and was roaming in the Forest preserve. Another woman stopped to help her and was attacked viciously by the dog also. Luckily she lived but I don't know the extent of her injuries.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that and my heart goes out to you. One question though wouldn't your cousins mother be called your aunt?


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

mbmb65 said:


> It's because they're sweet, loyal, loving, and in general make great pets. People who claim fluffy never showed any signs of human aggression until it ripped the neighbor to shreds are full of sh!t. They just didn't recognize them or they ignored them.


Groupthink runs rampant in our society especially regarding dog behavior. The owners want to believe their little precious is the sweetest animal on earth like a mother believes her incarcerated rapist/murderer son was "always such a sweet boy". Fact of the matter is there will always be some instinct there regardless of training. Nature didn't spend millions of years of evolution to create the modern dog just so it could all be trained away in a few years.


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

My own experience has encouraged me to always ride with a knife.
I was attacked by a St. Bernard when younger, and the memory still surfaces from time to time.
Strange thing is that I knew the dog very well, but I was wearing a new snowsuit when the attack happened.
That is the only thing different than any other day (I saw the dog almost daily for years), and what we figured triggered the attack.

So far the only thing whilst riding I have had to deal with is a Sheppard that liked to chase and bite at lower legs. 
A good kick to the chops fixed him of that habit. Still see him, but now he does not come out to say hi.

My oldest son has also been bitten - in the face, luckily only requiring stitches, nothing reconstructive.
This was a Husky cross, owned by a friend, a dog that he knew very well. 
He came walking up the drive one day, and the dog came out of the bushes and nailed him in mid air.

Both dogs were put down ofter the attacks.


As for a small knife not being very effective against a pitt or similar - well maybe and maybe not. I am friends with a gentleman from another forum (Canoe Tripping) who ended up killing a full grown male black bear (with a small fixed blade knife) that had been stocking him and finally attacked. After the initial rush, in which his dog intervened, the dog again lunged at the bear which turned after the dog; said gentleman jumped on top and took to dispatching the bear with the knife. Note that both him and the dog were beat up, so it was not a walk in the park. Tests showed no issues with the bear, ie injury, rabies, no brain abnormality etc, so it was just one of the very few that will hunt man. Thankfully this one lost. I believe one of his claws is now a necklace.

michael


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## Way2ManyBikes (Aug 24, 2011)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Sorry to hear that and my heart goes out to you. One question though wouldn't your cousins mother be called your aunt?


Thank you and I am actually trying to figure it out. It's my Moms sisters step son's wife's mother.

So what would that be ??


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Way2ManyBikes said:


> Thank you and I am actually trying to figure it out. It's my Moms sisters step son's wife's mother.
> 
> So what would that be ??


Holy crap you got me. Still very sad.


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## ROCKINGNM (Feb 3, 2014)

Update: The dog owner did not comply with the animal control officers order to register the animal within one week. The officer returned to seize the animal and it was not found on the premesis, in a subsequent interview the owner stated that the dog was stolen before he could register it. Owner was given a 250$ fine for failure to comply and a 1 year suspension to register an animal. The officer went to the full extent that he is allowed, the suspension gives any animal control office the power to immediately seize an animal within this owners possession or control regardless of the animals registration status.


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## ROCKINGNM (Feb 3, 2014)

Way2ManyBikes said:


> Thank you and I am actually trying to figure it out. It's my Moms sisters step son's wife's mother.
> 
> So what would that be ??


Step aunt in law.


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## Way2ManyBikes (Aug 24, 2011)

ROCKINGNM said:


> Step aunt in law.


Thank you. I've been trying to figure it out


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## ROCKINGNM (Feb 3, 2014)

Way2ManyBikes said:


> Thank you. I've been trying to figure it out


Step due to the beach in the blood line with legal relation
Aunt is hierarchal in relation to the parallel with the mother
In law is an attachment due to the marriage


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> "I know but I was wagging my tail a sure sign of play and friendliness"
> "Why are some humans so soon to respond in such a harsh manner"


You'd think i could shed some light on this, lol, but I can not.
Let me know if/when you figure this one out PLEASE


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

theMeat said:


> You'd think i could shed some light on this, lol, but I can not.
> Let me know if/when you figure this one out PLEASE


Because its better to be safe than sorry?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

ROCKINGNM said:


> Step aunt in law.


Yeah we could make **** up all day long but would it be right.


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## Bird (Mar 26, 2004)

lol just read this whole thread and was quite entertained to say the least. Glad the OP and his son was not injured and seemed to have a happy ending .

Had many various breeds of dogs over the years and loved them all....yes I'm a dog lover.

My daughters BF lived with us for awhile " wife's approval grrrr " and he brought with him a large muscular male pit bull. Several weeks later after he was kicked out " my doing  " I was left with this impression.

This particular pit was friendly, not an intellectual dog by any stretch and got his butt whipped thoroughly by our male border collie when my daughter mistakenly let him outside without texting us. The pit was left bloodied and I angered and evicted said BF.

I know, this added very little to the character of the original topic.


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## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

mbmb65 said:


> It's because they're sweet, loyal, loving, and in general make great pets. People who claim fluffy never showed any signs of human aggression until it ripped the neighbor to shreds are full of sh!t. They just didn't recognize them or they ignored them.


You can get all of those qualities and companionship from a breed that hasn't been bred to be a fighting machine.

"Sweet, loyal, loving" is just about any good dog. We should take care of the ones that are already around, but we shouldn't be making more of them. They end up in shelters and get euthanized at a higher rate than other breeds. People who buy them from breeders need to understand the brutal cycle that they are funding.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

theMeat said:


> You'd think i could shed some light on this, lol, but I can not.
> Let me know if/when you figure this one out PLEASE


Yeah, no kidding. You would think owners would be more responsible and control their animal knowing that it could walk up to somebody who is afraid of them.

FYI, Not everyone in the world loves dogs and wants to be approached by them.


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## Way2ManyBikes (Aug 24, 2011)

I thought I would lighten this up a bit










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Monster dog almost eats my leg off @ 2:03


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## Way2ManyBikes (Aug 24, 2011)

Flucod said:


> Thats why I ride with a gun! I would have shot that dog, very scary!


here is another attack.

AOL.com Article - New Jersey Teen Killed After Dog Attack


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

Got attacked by a dog the yesterday while hiking. Dog saw me from about 40 yds and immediately made a line for me, barking all the way despite no provocation from me. I received several bites but thankfully no blood was drawn. The owner made a feeble attempt to call the dog off and she thought it was funny and said that this dog is the bouncy one. I replied your phucking dog just bit me. She was surprised. Meanwhile her husband had a much, much more ferocious sounding and looking dog that he was struggling to keep under control. Hate that $hit.


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## Way2ManyBikes (Aug 24, 2011)

I am seriously going to start riding with a knife strapped to my calf.


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## Learux (Jun 4, 2012)

Please report, I am sure you are not the first one. I would go as far as ride around with backup with baseball bats. Dog attacks again a hard hit to the spine will render it inoperative.

There is no room for aggressive dogs in this world. They need to be eradicated!

Here is am example of how stupid dogs are.

dog attack bike riding - Bing Videos

I always carry a knife and will not hesitate to use it.

I grew up with dogs all my life and can ...........


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

Yeah, I was very close to reporting. The incident was in a different county, rural and I didn't know how to contact animal control. But I hear ya, just getting it reported is a good thing.


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## Learux (Jun 4, 2012)

I don't c anything wrong with a little agitation. I am dead serious about challenging a dog as an adult. If necessary bring a kid as bait. Just make sure you kill it before it can hurt someone else.


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

Learux said:


> I don't c anything wrong with a little agitation. I am dead serious about challenging a dog as an adult. If necessary bring a kid as bait. *Just make sure you kill it before it can hurt someone else.*


The "bait" kid?
Or the dog?


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## Shane5001 (Dec 18, 2013)

iscariot said:


> Except that labs/retrievers are responsilbe for more attack/injuries than any other breeds. I'll let you look up the stats. They are common, and many people see them as "family" dogs, and neglect to train them, socialize them, or ever let them leave the backyard. Then when they do interact with other people/dogs, they are ill equiped and "just snap without warning unpredictably".
> 
> Anyone who thinks animals are unpredictable should not be allowed to have one, as it is clear that they don't understand how to train, treat, or read animals. That is what makes them unpredictable.


Big difference, labs and retrievers give a "nip," a warning bite to say "back off." Although not always alright, usually only feelings get hurt. And yes, those #'s are high due to everyone and their dog has a lab or retriever in the U.S. Pit bulls put you in the ER because they suck, even sometime when in the right hands. And The breed is gaining popularity. And the breed tends to attract a lot of white trash/poverty owners who should never own any animal.


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## Guest (May 18, 2014)

When attacked do whats necessary to keep from being injured, if that means a spray, a bat, a rock, the bike as a defensive tool, a knife or lastly a gun.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

abelfonseca said:


> Monster dog almost eats my leg off @ 2:03


He probably attacked you because of your taste in music.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

nvphatty said:


> When attacked do whats necessary to keep from being injured, if that means a spray, a bat, a rock, the bike as a defensive tool, a knife or lastly a gun.


Or a pork chop..


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## Guest (May 18, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Or a pork chop..


i'll remember to carry one in my camelbac for just such an occasion.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

nvphatty said:


> i'll remember to carry one in my camelbac for just such an occasion.


Make sure it's not frozen they frown on that.


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## Guest (May 18, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Make sure it's not frozen they frown on that.


picky fuggahs


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

nvphatty said:


> picky fuggahs


Yup!


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## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Or a pork chop..


Yup, then all you have to worry about are the cougars.


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## Sevenrats (Jan 2, 2014)

Any dog that attacks people unprovoked should be put down. If a dog runs out onto public property and immediately bites it should be put down. The owner should be banned from ever having another dog for allowing that to happen. I love dogs. They have to be socialized. No guard dog should ever be allowed loose. People and even other dogs have lost their lives to unsocialized aggressive dogs. 

Any dog that is so defensive that it will bite simply because someone is running or riding a bike should never be off leash and if it does it should be put confiscated from the owner.


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## abegold (Jan 30, 2004)

I had the same dog chase me twice. The first time I out pedaled him, the second I let him catch me then hit the disc brakes hard letting him get ahead of me. Then I punched it and ran over his front paws. Never saw that dog again. 
The dog will learn, don't expect that from an owner. Most people are pretty set in their ways. If the dog learns chasing a bicycle gets it hurt, it'll never happen again.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

abelfonseca said:


> Monster dog almost eats my leg off @ 2:03


I despise people who can't keep their dogs under control, but what's up with the trail routing in your video? Looks like you're riding right through someone's property, right under a covered area people seemed to be using for outdoor activities. The "monster" dog looked like it was surprised while sitting on its own front porch. If that was my private property, you would be the one getting maced. Care to explain? If I'm missing something please let me know.


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## chris11557 (Nov 6, 2012)

Had a dog come after me on a road ride this week after yelling at the owners twice to get their dog i pulled my bike pump and smacked it across the nose did the trick however now ill be carrying pepper spray!


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

veloborealis said:


> I despise people who can't keep their dogs under control, but what's up with the trail routing in your video? Looks like you're riding right through someone's property, right under a covered area people seemed to be using for outdoor activities. The "monster" dog looked like it was surprised while sitting on its own front porch. If that was my private property, you would be the one getting maced. Care to explain? If I'm missing something please let me know.


He is in Honduras. That is what mountain biking is like in much of Central and South America. Different culture. Still though, you can't be upset about a startled dog in his own yard. However, the OP doesn't seem to be. It is just par for the course.


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## GFisher2001 (Mar 16, 2006)

I would have kicked it square in the snout, with my cleats out. I would have continued to do so until it stopped. 

As a vegan I get it. But if your dog is in attack mode and not on the leash, it's going to get my cleats.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

What does being a vegan have to do with not protecting yourself against an attacking dog? The only difference between you and me is that you won't eat it if you kill it. I probably would.


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## GFisher2001 (Mar 16, 2006)

What I was getting at is, I choose not to eat meat for animal welfare and blah blah blah. 

But if a dog or any animal is charging me I will give it the bottom of my boot regardless.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

GFisher2001 said:


> What I was getting at is, I choose not to eat meat for animal welfare and blah blah blah.


I got that and I choose to eat meat because it is very tasty.

That is out of the way, it still has nothing to do with defending yourself. 
Buddhist Monks don't harm other living things but many sects still practice self defense and will use it against an aggressor.


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## wsmac (Sep 5, 2010)

Once in Alaska, while standing with the owners of a young stallion I had just finished trimming&#8230; he whipped his head over at me and I thought he just bumped me&#8230; he BIT MY SHOULDER! :eekster:
I pulled out my rasp, ground his legs down to stumpy nubs until he was the size of a taco bell mascot and then I putted him across the paddock!

Next, I turned on the owners&#8230; long story short, I had to stop shoeing horses for a living&#8230; I was declared too aggressive&#8230; and no one wants to bring their horses to your yard when you're not allowed out&#8230; :nono: :sad:

&#8230;uh wait&#8230; am I in the Bite Forum or the Bike Forum?

True story! Sorta 

Only been bitten by a German Shepard[Sheepherd&#8230;Shephard&#8230; awww&#8230;fuqit!] (my own&#8230; and not for a reason I wanted to taze him for), and a PITTTBOOOOLL!
Both my GF and I were bitten by this PB&#8230; only my arm got infected&#8230; so I say either KILL ALL THE PB'S or at the very least&#8230; CLEAN THEIR DAMN GERMY MOUTHS!

And that's all I have for this post&#8230;. :thumbsup:


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## FNG RIDER (Apr 2, 2011)

I got attacked by the world's most dangerous animal, a male human. He grabbed my back pack and threw me to the ground. I had to use the bike as a shield and weapon to get away. I'll deal with a dog any day, humans can kill you; p


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

FNG RIDER said:


> I got attacked by the world's most dangerous animal, a male human. He grabbed my back pack and threw me to the ground. I had to use the bike as a shield and weapon to get away. I'll deal with a dog any day, humans can kill you; p


Well don't leave us hangin' what's the story?


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## Bturner906 (May 31, 2014)

Burt4x4 said:


> If a dog bites me I will kill it with my hands, my bike, my knife... that rock... on the spot! If it even tries to harm one of my kids I will hunt it down, end of story!
> I do not tolerate violent dogs, period!
> 
> Sorry if this is too real for some of you...


Boom! X1000


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## Learux (Jun 4, 2012)

A dog that even "Nips" at a human needs to be put down. It's really that simple.


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2014)

FNG RIDER said:


> I got attacked by the world's most dangerous animal, a male human. He grabbed my back pack and threw me to the ground. I had to use the bike as a shield and weapon to get away. I'll deal with a dog any day, humans can kill you; p


were you trolling?


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## SHARCRASH (Jan 21, 2014)

abelfonseca said:


> Monster dog almost eats my leg off @ 2:03





Flucod said:


> Thats why I ride with a gun! I would have shot that dog, very scary!


HAHAHHA you both are so little, SO LITTLE of being scared by that little doggy, poor you! That's amazing HAHHAHAA! ut:


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## SHARCRASH (Jan 21, 2014)

FNG RIDER said:


> I got attacked by the world's most dangerous animal, a male human. He grabbed my back pack and threw me to the ground. I had to use the bike as a shield and weapon to get away. I'll deal with a dog any day, humans can kill you; p





nvphatty said:


> were you trolling?


No he wasn't nvphatty. He has a point!

It is supposedly the most intelligent being who is scared of little animals... LOL. OK seriously, many comments I see here are weird and sound like paranoia. I'm trying to understand because myself I've never been attacked by a dog but have been attacked by humans on random occasions for unreal reasons. And, if you see what's happening at the moment on the trails with traps directed to mtbikers, I confirm we have to worry more about humans.

Now, if a dog attacks you (barkling is not attacking), of course you're legitime to defend yourself.


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## 6sharky9 (Aug 14, 2011)

As a kid I once side hacked a dog in the head ..he yelped and turned around...problem solved...that dog never chased me again...funny if you were on foot he wouldn't bother you though..I guess wheels turning or pedaling motion triggers something some of them don't like...I would try the air horn method mentioned as a line of defense.


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

SHARCRASH said:


> No he wasn't nvphatty. He has a point!
> 
> It is supposedly the most intelligent being who is scared of little animals... LOL. OK seriously, many comments I see here are weird and sound like paranoia. I'm trying to understand because myself I've never been attacked by a dog but have been attacked by humans on random occasions for unreal reasons. And, if you see what's happening at the moment on the trails with traps directed to mtbikers, I confirm we have to worry more about humans.


The point is completely irrelevant. People get attacked by other people all the time. So what? That's another topic, we're talking dogs here, not humans. FNG was trolling, he was just trying to make commentary. Good for you, you've never been attacked by a dog. Hopefully that will never happen to you.



> Now, if a dog attacks you (barkling is not attacking), of course you're legitime to defend yourself.


This is the point of the recent comments in this thread. If a dog attacks you, then you have every right to repel that attack.


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