# Girly-girl vs out door girl



## oldbroad (Mar 19, 2004)

The threads about women who get out into the great out doors as opposed to the women who don't has got me thinking.....

Sometimes when I'm interacting with other women, I find myself thinking that they are some other species. (No snide remarks yet guys) 
I remember going to a birthday brunch recently and the conversation at the table was all about purses & shoes with the occasional husband & kids topic just to mix things up. 
2 hours of _serious_ talk about where to buy, how to match, how to wear, etc. 
On the other hand they were just as not interested in my idea of a good time is getting sweaty & dirty as I was not interested in their idea of shopping all day. 
Now, I know how to do all the girlie-girl things, and I clean up real nice if I have to  but for the most part that stuff just has no appeal to me.

So I am curious about how there can be such a gulf and how it comes about. 
Do you think it is how you are raised? Was your Mom the out door type? Lots of brothers maybe? Were you girlie-girl and rebelled?

And guys, do find there is the same gulf in the world of men?

Please keep in mind that I'm not saying one type is better than the other or the two types can't overlap in many ways!


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## Zonic Man (Dec 19, 2003)

You can be a girly girl and an outdoor girl.


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## Sabine (Jan 12, 2004)

Zonic Man said:


> You can be a girly girl and an outdoor girl.


I was bummed out on my ride this weekend because I broke a nail. It bugged me all ride. I wanted to file it right then and there. I think I am going to carry a nail file with my tools on my rides from now on. So my jersey pocket tool kit would be: Multi-tool, tire levers, bubbles, Co2 and nail file. Perfect.

Sabine


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## wunderhorn (May 13, 2005)

oldbroad said:


> And guys, do find there is the same gulf in the world of men?


I'm going to venture that a lot more of males' behavior is considered without regard to gender -- there's a phrase "manly men" but you hear it less and it means so many things as to be almost meaningless. Less of our identity seems to be connected to society's view of what our gender is supposed to do. So one could be considered "manly" for mtbing, or for getting fat tailgaiting at Green Bay Packers games. No outdoorsy/manly man gulf.

On the other hand, while society may provide a wider range of what's considered manly, it exacts a bigger penalty for those who exist outside of that wide range. Be a man by making money, or being a firefighter, a professor, an athlete, a father, even if you're physically unattractive (within bounds) but don't dare do anything society considers "gay."


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

oldbroad said:


> And guys, do find there is the same gulf in the world of men?


Yep. I don't have fun in most "masculine" conversations. I know nothing about cars, only a little about sports, and don't like talking about my sexual desire for women. I work in a library which is outside the norm and doesn't involve making money and spending it on boats. I like to talk about bikes, politics and kids.

I have a hard time making small talk with women too, but at least they're usually have something to say about kids. It always scares me when some dad can't tell me a cute story about what their 2 year old did recently. If a kid is 2, it's doing cute things every five or six minutes, how can you not notice?

The shopping discussions kill me. It's so inane and it's such an expensive hobby and what do you *do* with all that crap?

My mom wasn't into outdoor sports, but she is a down-to-earth woman who likes hiking, dancing, and gardening. She never shyed away from physical work when I was kid. My sister is the same way (minus dancing). Neither of them goes shopping for fun. My sister did ride horses when she was younger, and would now if she could afford it.

Riding is a strange thing, there are a lot of young girls who are totally obsessed with horses, it's not something I think boys really get into so much. Big Sis stacked a lot of hay and shovelled a lot of manure, it sure didn't look "girly". (I guess for the very wealthy you just get on a horse and drop it off with the groom when you're done, but I can't imagine you're a very good rider if you work with the animal like that.)


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## konahottie_311 (May 26, 2005)

oldbroad said:


> The threads about women who get out into the great out doors as opposed to the women who don't has got me thinking.....
> 
> Sometimes when I'm interacting with other women, I find myself thinking that they are some other species. (No snide remarks yet guys)
> I remember going to a birthday brunch recently and the conversation at the table was all about purses & shoes with the occasional husband & kids topic just to mix things up.
> ...


I would say I am a bit of both...BUT I do not get along with the girly girly of our breed. They make me crazy. Like you said I just dont have anything in common with them. I am lucky as most of my girl friends are not of the girly breed. We all like to look pretty and shop but I love the days when it rains and there is mud on the trails...my favorite . My mom was very outdoorsy and very into sports... I am sure that had alot to do with me. I also have always had more guys friends then girl friends. Kona


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## litespeedchick (Jan 13, 2004)

OK, I'll play. (work is SLOOOOWWW today)

First, I'd like to register as both girl-girl and outdoor girl. I wear makeup to ride (gasp!), carry lip gloss in my camelback and have never actually finished changing my own flat. I get regular pedicures and can talk for a LONG time about buying purses and making frosting. However, I also broke tib and fib on the mountain bike and didn't cry (until the next Saturday when everybody else went riding and I was home with my cast...but nobody saw that). I've shot a deer, butchered quite a few, I drive a stick and know where the max torque lies on the RPM scale. I like to get muddy and bloody(minor amounts, please) and powderpuff football is in my top 10 highschool memories.

Why? I think it's how you're raised. My Mom was not outdoorsy in the athletic/recreation sense, but she was a gardener and so not afraid of bugs, and a science teacher so not afraid of gross stuff, and smart so helpless airheadedness wasn't tolerated. Plus, I was an only child, so I spent a lot of time with my Dad that I bet I wouldn't have if he had sons to pal around with. I got to chase the escaped cows, jump terrace rows in the Willis jeep, and hang out at the country store w/ the men who told lies and talked about cars. 

THEN...I met my husband-to-be when I was pretty young, and he's the prototype manly-man, macho tough guy. In a sense he has "raised" me to be tough as well. There's no whining at our house. It's funny when some guys we ride with are such sweethearts and will stop to help me carry my bike over downed trees and stuff but my husband only does so in extreme cases...he knows I'm capable.

SO...I think the girly-girl and the sporty-girl are both in you, it's just which one (or both) gets nourished. I admit, my 100% girly friends get on my nerves sometimes. I just want to scream "For God's Sake, it's just WATER falling from the sky, not acid, your hair will recover!!!"

Thanks for the providing this pleasant time-wasting opportunity!


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## Mary Ann (Jan 13, 2004)

I think there's an even further distinction between "outdoorsy" and "loves mud, blood and sweat". I have lots of friends who will go camping, hiking, xc skiing etc that look at me like they think I should be committed when I display my latest bruise/scar from a mountain biking crash.

No idea where this comes from. Just glad I have it. ;-)

Mary Ann


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## konahottie_311 (May 26, 2005)

Mary Ann said:


> I think there's an even further distinction between "outdoorsy" and "loves mud, blood and sweat". I have lots of friends who will go camping, hiking, xc skiing etc that look at me like they think I should be committed when I display my latest bruise/scar from a mountain biking crash.
> 
> No idea where this comes from. Just glad I have it. ;-)
> 
> Mary Ann


Me too..I just say it's a bit of the boy gene. It makes us a bit crazier.


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## moonbeam (Dec 21, 2004)

oldbroad said:


> The threads about women who get out into the great out doors as opposed to the women who don't has got me thinking.....
> 
> Sometimes when I'm interacting with other women, I find myself thinking that they are some other species.
> 
> ...


GREAT thread OB. It's funny, I was raised by a very proper and southern mom and grandmother, where dressing nice daily, hair curlers and make up were just a part of the daily routine. For some reason jeans and t-shirts and playing in the dirt with the boys was always more appealing to me than shopping with the girls for the newest shades of eye shadows and the matching purse/belt/shoe situation. I have always been better friends with the boys and have that deer in the headlights look with super girly girls...I can't really "talk the talk" of purses and stuff. Now a conversation about disc brakes and how to set up a bike singlespeed style, I can talk for hours. Or even politics, religion, media, society...something that makes me feel like I'm using my brain more than what color nail polish I got with my manicure...that is fulfilling and interesting to me. I'm not insulting the nail polish gals, honestly, it's probably as idle chatter as eno hubs v. tentioners. Just what interests me.

My mom still splurges on the occassional girly purchase for her baby girl, and schedules a pedicure for me when I come home (much to the disdain of the gal who doesn't understand that long toenails don't feel so good in bike shoes), but for the most part has come to realize that bike jerseys and shorts are great presents, and she understands (as best she can) that riding, and the outdoors in general, for me is a way of life...a heck of a lot cheaper than therapy  , and is an outlet for me to have a great community of like minded friends, guys and girls, to play with and enjoy life with.

Granted, I have a job that requires me to dress up on occassion. Those days I find it a little bit funny to walk into the LBS in my girly skirt and shirt and cute girly sandals...still no purse to be found  ... and just see their reaction. It's great.  And so I do think that we can be feminine and still enjoy the activity that renders scrapes, bruises and broken bones with great stories to be told.


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

Sabine said:


> I was bummed out on my ride this weekend because I broke a nail. It bugged me all ride. I wanted to file it right then and there. I think I am going to carry a nail file with my tools on my rides from now on. So my jersey pocket tool kit would be: Multi-tool, tire levers, bubbles, Co2 and nail file. Perfect.
> 
> Sabine


a rock works really well. not that i've ever tried it or anything. you can't get the nice rounded manicured edge but it does take that annoying snag off.



rt


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

oldbroad said:


> And guys, do find there is the same gulf in the world of men?


To a certain extent, yes. If a man can't hold up his end of a conversation about two or more of the following (*generalization alert!*):

sports; 
cars; 
home improvement projects; 
money/business 
sex (married guys can usually get a "pass"" on this one)

he risks being labelled a wimp or, even worse, a "homer seckshull"


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

i think i've managed to find a nice balance between the two for myself. i've never been much of a shopper or make-up wearer but i do appreciate nice stuff and looking nice just as much as the next girly-girl. as a little kid i actually refused to wear pants (only skirts) for the longest time. i've since gotten over that. 

i guess maybe i got it from my mom who isn't a shopper/make-up wearer either and is active and outdoorsy but still appreciates dressing nicely etc. 

i can go out with my riding girl friends and talk shopping or pedicures (most of us find that manicures are a waste of time since we just squash them) or purses and cute shoes. 

i have to admit that i don't understand women for whom shopping is their hobby but i can certainly understand a woman who likes to collect good jewelry.  

i'm not so sure there's such a stark line between "girly-girls" and the rest of us. 

rt


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## MidAtlanticXCer (May 21, 2004)

*true dat*



*rt* said:


> i'm not so sure there's such a stark line between "girly-girls" and the rest of us.


I was just recalling a post-ride brew pub outing recently where the four of us, all women, talked half and half about endurance MTB racing and about getting laser hair removal done.


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

*Lol!*



MidAtlanticXCer said:


> I was just recalling a post-ride brew pub outing recently where the four of us, all women, talked half and half about endurance MTB racing and about getting laser hair removal done.


my most recent outing with my female riding friends centered around margaritas & talk of bike stuff, contraception, and 'where'd you get that adorable skirt?!'



rt


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## crashedandburned (Jan 9, 2004)

*I wouldn't DARE say my GF is a girly-girl....*

But when I see her do this out on the trail when we stop to rest I HAVE to laugh.  She doesn't wear makeup, but has this thing about her bangs covering her forehead all the time. I've tried to ask her why she does that but she just gets mad at me for asking.


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## chad1433 (Apr 5, 2004)

It's an easy conversion though - I taught my fiancee that Chris King = Tiffany's, Ellsworth = Gucci, stuff like that. Now we relate!

Most of my girlfriends have grown up on farms (huh, that's strange, I never realized it!) and so have been outdoorsy. If they want to see me, they have to be willing to get out and get into it. I think it's just how important different things are to a child when they're growing up that dictates how they'll be when they're older.

The best ones (GFs, for me anyway) seem to see the value in a well rounded "education" 

P.S. I think we're going to see a strange new generation of boys and girls raised on Xbox and PS2. It's going to be interesting!


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

This is fun thread for me. A not so fancy mama and papa are finding themselves parents of a very girly girl can't make her bike dazzle in enough pink and purple, but she does like worms and all that's crude about our trips to the cottage.


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

*An outdoor girl*

How did I get to be who I am? I think it's 'cuz my parents were in their 40s when I was born. My brother and sister were off to college while I was still pretty young. So I grew up pretty much on my own. My parents were very concerned about my well-being. In some ways they were strict. But it was more of a watch-out for danger, rather than us being very close. Sort of a midwest/Lutheran sort of thing.

No one in my family was outdoorsy, till I came along.

I think I was a fairly typical teenager, but I was a bit of a tomboy.

I have a few friends at work and we bond on more mundane reasons. One friend is SO city-fied. But she does wear the cutest shoes! One bonding topic is how to deal with men (as in SOs/husbands). I made a BIG mistake once that devastated me. I learned a lot and have helped two friends get out of abusive marriages.

Girlie things about me:
- Own about 20-30 pairs of shoes
- I always paint my toenails and wear toe rings
- Love to go shopping
- Girlie hobbies: baking, sewing (in a past life), crafts
- Don't like a "dirty" home

Tomboy things about me:
- Hobbies are: mtbing, caving, gardening
- Profession is: geologist
- Wear T shirts and shorts all weekend. I often skip a shower on the weekend.
- I've lived more than a year of my cumulative life in a tent
- I spent 3 months on a caving expedition and spent 40 days underground total. 18 days in a row underground without coming out.
- Show off my bruises and scrapes proudly, be they from mtbing or caving
- Happily live with a certain amount of "clutter"

Currently I wear nice clothes (I wore silk again today) to work. I wear makeup to work, which means I am still in makeup when I go on club rides in the evening. I don't ever wear makeup on weekend rides.

I get spiffied up work for several reasons:
- I figure I'm old and fat, and need all the help I can to look good
- Statistically, good looking people get paid more that ugly ones. I may not believe that is "right," but I accept that it is true, so I choose to milk the system to my favor as best I can
- I like it when people say I look nice

But when push comes to shove, I am outdoorsy. When I first got to knowing mtbers, I had a very hard time connecting with them. As time when on, I found some **really** terrific friends out of the deal.

However, I find a fundamental difference between the majority of mtbers and me. Many, many of them are into racing. I'm not. Many of them just don't know the outdoors very well. Example: Elizabeth Furnace is one of the almost local rides. It's pretty tough. I went the first time solo. It beat me up, but I had a great time. I went again a half year later with the club. Someone had to ask on the forum ahead of time how to carry enough water for 5 hours of riding. Now I am not criticizing that guy. I am very pleased that he wrote and asked. There's no such thing as a dumb question. You can only learn by learning. So much better to ask than get yourself in trouble. But it's weird to me, with my background, that you wouldn't know the answer to that question if you were at all an experienced outdoor/mtb person. Then, we get out there and I'm, as always, the slowest rider. At one intersection, they're waiting for everyone to catch up. I overhear, "I don't know. They might be poisonous!" I turn the corner and, "She's the outdoors person, maybe she knows." I look over and exclaim, "BLACKBERRIES!" and proceed to stuff my face. I think to myself, 'It's rude to hog them all for myself.' But then I realize that only one other person is daring to eat 1 berry! Finally, we get to the really steep, rocky hike-a-bike section. No big deal. I just push my way up. I get to the top, "finally I was able to pass a person or two on the hike-a-bike section. I'm all smiles. "Isn't this a FANTASTIC day! The sun is shining! It's not too hot. The woods are so beautiful. Lah, de, dah." I get my lunch out. A bagel with cream cheese and a pre-cut mango. I look around. NO ONE is smiling. "Hey guys? What's the matter? No one's smiling. Anybody wanna piece of mango?" "No, I just had a gu pack." Total disconnect between them and me. LIFE IS GOOD.

The difference is that mtbing gets me into the woods. To mtbers, the woods gets them a chance to ride their bikes. Maybe it's something to do with my current residence in a major metropolis.

I'm not criticizing them. Each and every one of them is a better cyclist than I am. It's just a different attitude/package of experiences. Perhaps like girlie-girls and outdoor girls. (In both, there's some overlap)

I also think there's a bit of "nature" (as opposed to nuture) in all this. I got interested in the outdoors as a teenager, and I let nothing get in my way of experiencing it. When growing up, my older sister said I was the most stubborn kid she'd ever seen.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

Maybe it's because my father had two daughters that we ended up a bit tomboyish. Plus my mother grew up on a farm in Ireland, so she raised us to be practical and discouraged us from dressing up!

As a kid, I was one of the only girls to play soccer during recess- maybe one or two other girls would join in. It was much more fun than jumping rope or playing jacks. We had Barbies, but all I ever wanted was a remote control airplane (never got one- apparently they're too complicated for Santa  )

I guess it's b/c I never felt entirely comfortable doing the girly thing, that I gravitated toward activities that were more rugged. Once, I went hiking with a boyfriend, and when we got to the top of a fire tower, he told me I looked like hell. And guys wonder why more women don't come out to play! There I was, being a good sport, even fought an attack of vertigo to get up to the top of that thing- and that was the thanks I got.

Just because we tomboys love sporty stuff doesn't mean we're "butch." Part of the appeal is how it keeps us fit. I love my scars but I also love my muscle tone, which helps me look better when I DO have to dress up!

And yes, I do wear a little makeup before some rides, either due to the ride being at the end of the day, or not wanting to look like "hell" when I make stops on the way there. So rocks make good nail files, eh.....?


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## Mary Ann (Jan 13, 2004)

Completely not related to this thread, crashedandburned: why would you have two quotes from your ex in your signature? First time I saw it I found it somewhat amusing, then I wondered why someone would want that appended to every post they write?

Some advice that I got when I went through my divorce many eons ago: the opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference--you're not "over" it until you can think of your ex with no feeling at all. That takes people different amounts of time to come to, but if your ex is still engaging your thoughts then I suggest you ask yourself why. 

/end of none of my business comment
Mary Ann


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

oldbroad said:


> The threads about women who get out into the great out doors as opposed to the women who don't has got me thinking.....
> !


I think the big divide is hair/makeup. You can be all outdoorsy and still clean up really well and even be really girly. The "other species" is the girl/woman who cannot get her hair wet/sweaty/or otherwise mess it up, and those also who would be horrified to leave the house without makeup on. It is hard to be outdoorsy and worry about whether you look good.

My mom is the above - super girly girl non athletic etc. Lucky for me I had 2 brothers and a dad who loved the outdoors so I ended up a tomboy. I do dress up for work, it is the professional thing to do, but off work I don't worry too much about what I look like. FOr the record I hate shopping and only have one purse - my mom bought it for me as a xmas gift


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## Lizard biker (Apr 26, 2004)

Impy said:


> Lucky for me I had 2 brothers and a dad who loved the outdoors so I ended up a tomboy. I do dress up for work, it is the professional thing to do.... FOr the record I hate shopping and only have one purse - my mom bought it for me as a xmas gift


Yip, in terms of the quote above ... I have those in common. I have to dress up for work - power suits and looking like a sensible woman... but the real me, or rather the weekend me is a threadbare denims, t-shirt wearing mtb chick who competes with the guys on most things (and wins  ) I also hate shopping and think its a waste of time being in a mall when you could be out on your bike in the sun. Have always been a 'tomboy' type to some extent but also have the knack at being girly when I need to. I do wear make-up when I go out, I prefer skirts in summer and i cant skip a day without washing my hair.
go figure


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## crashedandburned (Jan 9, 2004)

Why would I have two quotes from the ex in my signature? Why not? I thought it was funny that my ex is trying to "rekindle" something that can never happen and what has become of her. 'Specially since nowadays I've lost the weight (from 240 lbs) from when we were married and have a professional job as an engineer nowadays. I have this info and a couple pics in my classmates profile. She also e-mailed me a few yrs back asking me if I was "married or taken". Can't be anymore subtle there now can she? Needless to say we didn't part on the best of terms. Typical story, she cheated and lied to me. Played mind games and whatnot. Gave my forgiveness MANY times to her over 5 yrs until I had enough. Am I "over it"? I guess not as much as I care to admit. Been divorced for 11 yrs this summer and havn't really thought too much of her 'till I read her profile and saw her pic on there after she e-mailed me through classmates. Brought back some feelings that I thought were long gone. I have no intention of contacting her though. Could NEVER trust her again. Even if GOD himself told me I could I would be reluctant to. Besides, I have a good partner now and wouldn't betray her like that. She knows my ex e-mailed me. I don't hide stuff from her. Wants to write her back but I won't let her. I am kinda curious what makes the ex think I would want to date a stripper w/ 3 kids. Specially one who I can see her for what she really is.


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## kawboy8 (May 5, 2004)

Girly Girl....hmmm, I would say I like women who will play hard...but clean up nicely. Or maybe a better way to put it...she will dice with me on the trails...and then later that night, wear a dress and never tell anyone she kicked my ass riding that day. And she has to be HOT...either way....lol.



Lizard biker said:


> Yip, in terms of the quote above ... I have those in common. I have to dress up for work - power suits and looking like a sensible woman... but the real me, or rather the weekend me is a threadbare denims, t-shirt wearing mtb chick who competes with the guys on most things (and wins  ) I also hate shopping and think its a waste of time being in a mall when you could be out on your bike in the sun. Have always been a 'tomboy' type to some extent but also have the knack at being girly when I need to. I do wear make-up when I go out, I prefer skirts in summer and i cant skip a day without washing my hair.
> go figure


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

I think that females can easily be both very girly-girly and very outdoorsy.

As an example, I used to windsurf with several girls in club racing. They were really into racing, and would beat it out with the guys on the upwind legs and go fast off the wind too.

They always looked like "drowned rats" at the end of the day, and I sort of got used to seeing them like that....until we had the club dance.

WOW !! Those windsurfing-fit suntanned girls were absolute knock-outs in high heels and short dresses and makeup. I was really amazed how feminine and 'girly-girly' they were.

That's the same with other girls I know who are into surfing, bikes, sailing, etc, etc.. 

Women have the capacity to be both, and I really admire females who do get out there and enjoy the great outdoors and sports.

I think it's the same with men, but to a much lesser degree. Most men are 'sporty' anyway, I think.

My wife can be as tough as nails, and also very very "girly" and feminine when she wants to be.

All I can say is....thank God for women. 

R.


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## Ly Ly (Jul 9, 2005)

oldbroad said:


> The threads about women who get out into the great out doors as opposed to the women who don't has got me thinking.....
> 
> Sometimes when I'm interacting with other women, I find myself thinking that they are some other species. (No snide remarks yet guys)
> I remember going to a birthday brunch recently and the conversation at the table was all about purses & shoes with the occasional husband & kids topic just to mix things up.
> ...


I've thought about this question from a lot in my life (mostly because sometimes I think I'm adopted or just plain weird). My sisters are total girly girls. My parents never were the outdoor type and I don't have any brothers. My cousins are mostly guys but none are outdoorsy. Yet, I seem to be the black sheep in the family.

I know it's really the way I was raised. We didn't have much growing up so I couldn't join any conversation on the latest fashion, trends, make up, whatever girls talk about these days. It's not that I feel uncomfortable talking about these things. It's more I have no knowledge about it so I choose not to contribute. I'm very practical too so I don't really want to spend time on make up when I can sleep in for another twenty minutes (this is how long I'd take to pretty myself up).

I don't mind the occasional dressing up to go out. I think it's fun every once in awhile, but I prefer doing something, anything, over standing around and talking about make up and clothes. I've become more of a girly girl in last few years, but I haven't lost the tomboyish side of me. I think that's there to stay! In fact, I think most people are surprised when they find out what I'm really like. It's refreshing to be able to dispel the stereotypes people use when they meet me. Either way, I still think girls rule no matter what type!


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## dompedro3 (Jan 26, 2004)

*split in the world of men*

Growing up in oregon, i thought every guy went camping and knew how to make a fire. T hen I came back east, found a lot of guys who claimed they were into the outdoors, but outdoors to them meant getting a cabin a few miles from the interstate and possibly peeing outside once or twice when locked out. Then i moved to NYC, guys that are into outdoors here are few and far between. I guess road bicycling counts as an outdoor activity, but only marginally, these guys go riding for 2-6 hrs, and the imeediately go home and shower. Mountain bikers are hard to find, and some people think walking around the Jackie O reservoir is hiking.

There is a definite rift in guys, there are guys who like to talk about cars/computers/video games, and those who talk about tire pressure, disc brakes, and internal frame backpacks.


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## litespeedchick (Jan 13, 2004)

said to me at a wedding of a mutual mtb friend: "Wow! I've never seen you in clothes before!"


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

I was a total tomboy growing up. I could out run the boys, throw and kick a football better but not allowed to play on the team. I could hit and catch better and found softball when my brother got to play baseball. I played sports, built forts, road my bike everywhere, and hated the few times I was forced into a dress or to the beauty salon for a hair do. 

Like Christine said, I was never comfortable with the girly stuff. My mom hardly ever went out side but she is not really girly either, just blind. Since she can't see there was no knowledge or keeping up with the other women and I had no other women roll models to learn the girly stuff from. I did get my ears peirced on my own at 12, but never could figure out how to carry a purse. 

I'm not quite sure how, but I managed to raise a daughter that's pretty girly and outdoorsy. She will get up an hour early just to shower, blow dry hair, and put on make up. But later catch bugs in the yard to feed her reptiles. She knows Chris King, Litespeed, and Cannondale, but will spend $40 on a cute little purse, or $65 to get her bangs cut, and yesterday, $275 on the phone she wants  when she really needs a laptop and an oil change. 

I grew up on the front end of Title 9 when it was all new for girls to do sports. You almost had to pick between being a jockette and the drill team type. My daughter has grown up living the benefits of having many more choices and having those choices not only supported by me but by sociaty in general. It's ok and encouraged to be tough and get dirty on the field or trail, then clean up, fix your hair, and go out.


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## Shannon-UT (Mar 26, 2004)

oldbroad said:


> So I am curious about how there can be such a gulf and how it comes about.
> Do you think it is how you are raised? Was your Mom the out door type? Lots of brothers maybe? Were you girlie-girl and rebelled?
> 
> And guys, do find there is the same gulf in the world of men?
> ...


While my mom liked to take us on hikes in Indiana (no camping though), my other 2 sisters and I all turned out quite differently. I am the outdoorsy, adventurous one, the other two are Chicago city dwelling fashion divas. Just going home for a visit reminds me that I just couldn't keep up with makeup and hair highlighting and shoes like they do in the city. One spent $300 on her own spray tanning machine and gallons of "summer bronze" to keep herself tan (well I call it Nerf Ball ORANGE) all year long. They spend so much money on their general appearance I couldn't afford it, well perhaps my money just goes elsewhere.

So I don't think if my upbrining and my mother have much to do about what I like now. Everyone in my family says, "Who'da thought? You biking on mountains?" I think it was always in me, just never had mountains near me!

Then on the other hand I like to cook, be frugal, garden, I'd probably sew but I don't have a sewing machine yet! I think the pioneer woman of the 1800-1900's was a woman to look up to.


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## Mary Ann (Jan 13, 2004)

[email protected]"Nerf Ball ORANGE"

I'm also very different from my 2 sisters. They're both athletic, but are gym-goers rather than outdoorsy types. They're both fashion-plates and very much into the latest hair and make-up techniques (one more than the other). I am more than presentable, and do wear makup and cut/colour my hair very regularly, but I just don't follow or care about trends. Any bit of girly-girly-ness I have, I get from them and do admit to shoe-closet evny of my youngest sister. But alas, with size 11.5 feet I just don't have the selection so I make do with a few pair.

Mary Ann


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## kawboy8 (May 5, 2004)

To get a true idea of what you mean...I think we should all see a photo of you and your sisters...lol. Gym goers are not all bad....some people do both. 11.5? mother of god...lol



Mary Ann said:


> [email protected]"Nerf Ball ORANGE"
> 
> I'm also very different from my 2 sisters. They're both athletic, but are gym-goers rather than outdoorsy types. They're both fashion-plates and very much into the latest hair and make-up techniques (one more than the other). I am more than presentable, and do wear makup and cut/colour my hair very regularly, but I just don't follow or care about trends. Any bit of girly-girly-ness I have, I get from them and do admit to shoe-closet evny of my youngest sister. But alas, with size 11.5 feet I just don't have the selection so I make do with a few pair.
> 
> Mary Ann


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## Neen (Sep 27, 2004)

Hey Mary Ann, I have a size 10 foot, so I feel your pain  I own more sneakers than "dress up" shoes. I might have 2 dresses in my closet, but I've got about 10 pairs of jeans. I would absolutely spend $100 on biking shoes (just did actually) but if I need dress up shoes I head right to Payless.
Just the other day my s/o looked at me, slightly horrified, and said "You're letting your nails grow? You're not going to get all girly on me, are you?". Took a long time for our paths to cross, but there really is someone out there for everyone  And that exchange happened on the same day I did my very first DH race!


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## Dude (Jan 12, 2004)

*I aksed my wife what cat she would put herself in*

I asked the wife what category she thought she fit into. She told me that she felt she was a good mixture of both and was happy with that. I think she is awesome being in the middle. She can get dirty and also cleans up rather impressive I must say. Oh that reminds me.. One night she had a girls night out... She came out of the room just dressed to the nines.. I have to admit, I didn't want her to go out after seeing her dressed like that... I was jealous and trust me I am not a jealous man... At almost twenty years together I still get my feathers displayed for her.. 

It was told to us the other day that as women get older they toughen up and as men get older they turn into cupcakes..... I am just waiting for the frosting..... Oh wait, that is coming as my wife has made me a cardio bunny on Monday nights... cardio kickboxing for 2hrs.... My buddies just rattle their receding hairline at me now..

-Dude


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## kept man (Jan 13, 2004)

Along the lines of what Wunderhorn said, the divide I see amongs guys tends more to be between jerks and not jerks.

It's not necessarily about cars, or sports, or rewiring your basement, or personal athletic prowess or whatever - it's HOW you talk about your stuff. Machoness can be a lot of things because it's all a state of mind regarding stuff, not said stuffs themselves.

And just as importantly, how you act towards other guys regardless of their stuffs.


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## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

I fall firmly into the non girly-girl category. I won't say strictly outdoorsy, because reading and video games were an integral part of my time growing up and my mum often had to kick me and my book out of the house just to get me to go outside. However, my dad was (and still is) very big into hiking, sailing and other outdoorsy stuff, so I used to go with him a lot.

I'm definitely not a girly girl though... unlike my sister. My wardrobe consists of jeans, T-shirts and baggy shorts, and bike clothes. I have maybe one or two 'nice' oufits for weddings and stuff but I work on a construction site and have to wear jeans and T-shirts to work as well. I despise shopping for the sake of shopping... I like to make a list of exactly what I need and go and buy it, or I order it online. I never wear make-up because I just don't like the way it feels, especially lipstick... yuck! I don't like tight girly girl clothes because they don't feel comfortable to me... I like to be able to move in my clothes rather than be restricted. I hate high heeled shoes because I totally disagree with damaging my body (back, knees) for the sake of fashion. Mainly it's a comfort thing for me... I don't like to be uncomfortable so I wear what feels good and avoid anything that doesn't.

As far as social interactions go, I find myself switching off as soon as anyone mentions < insert latest reality TV show here >, or most TV in general, or celebrity gossip, hair, nails, handbags etc. I enjoy conversations about bikes, tools, politics, books, sports and my big geeky passion 'Dungeons & Dragons' much more. I find most traditionaly 'girly' topics to be trivial and frivolous, so I don't take part.

So yeah, I feel like sometimes I'm on another planet, especially when I'm forced to go out to lunch with the other admin staff at work (most of whom I hate anyway, but because they're arseholes, not because they're girly-girls).

- Jen (cranky and at work).


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

chad1433 said:


> P.S. I think we're going to see a strange new generation of boys and girls raised on Xbox and PS2. It's going to be interesting!


I don't think they'll be substancially different from kids of my generation, who went from Atari to Nintendo to Super Nintendo. They'll actually probably have longer attention spans and better problem solving skills from the more complex games, rather than just be able to hit button combinations very, very fast.

The ones who play Dance Dance Revolution are in shape and can even dance.


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## Shannon-UT (Mar 26, 2004)

I could be girly girl if I had too, like dressing up for occasions, but it's usually just a change of clothes and a curling iron to my hair and some high heels. I don't go "in depth" and get manicures, highlights, self tanners, paint my nails or anything like that. Not that there's anything wrong with that.


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## MTBerJim (May 26, 2005)

oldbroad said:


> And guys, do find there is the same gulf in the world of men?


The guys that talk about shopping are normally gay (Not That There Is Anything Wrong With That)!!!
I find it's more like guys that participate in athletics don't watch nearly as much sports on TV. My room mate is a perfect example of that, every spring I get the old this year I'm going to ride with you-get in shape-eat better-work less-blah blah blah. I invite him to come riding; he says no I got whatever to do. I come home to him watching the Mets a cursing at the TV.

Jim D.


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## LJintheUK (Jul 21, 2004)

I suppose as a bloke you get cut some slack for participating in a "sport" (although I don't consider mountainbiking a sport) but as I hate football, don't own a TV, can't drive and don't really like bullsh1tting about sex I am considered wierd. To which I reply "Thankyou, it's very kind of you to notice."


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

Neen said:


> Hey Mary Ann, I have a size 10 foot, so I feel your pain  I own more sneakers than "dress up" shoes. I might have 2 dresses in my closet, but I've got about 10 pairs of jeans. I would absolutely spend $100 on biking shoes (just did actually) but if I need dress up shoes I head right to Payless.
> Just the other day my s/o looked at me, slightly horrified, and said "You're letting your nails grow? You're not going to get all girly on me, are you?". Took a long time for our paths to cross, but there really is someone out there for everyone  And that exchange happened on the same day I did my very first DH race!


Hell, I just got a french pedicure before heading down to Brianhead for the National DH race. And painted my nails blue to match my bike and helmet (maybe next time I'll paint them neon pink to match my goggles.... And yet my husband and friends say I'm the biggest mud magnet they've ever met, and I'm always a mess of scars and bruises from riding dirt bikes, racing DH, etc. I'm a blood 'n' mud spattered girly-girl, apparently. 

Oh - and my sister turned out exactly like my mother - and I'm totally different than both of them. I definitely took on the role of daddy's little tomboy (no brothers - I grew up catching turtles and snakes with my dad, climbing trees, etc.) My sister isn't very outdoorsy, has no tolerance for a sport that might cause an injury, and told me she "obviously" has asthma because she tried jogging after 10 or so years as a total couch potato and couldn't think of any other explanation for why her lungs burned. My mom tried lifting weights and told me she thinks she has some sort of physical problem because she was sore the next day. No matter what I tell either of them, they apparently think I'm only exercising because I must not ever get out of breath or sore like they do. I've tried explaining that you never really quit getting out of breath or sore, you just push harder and go faster and longer to get there, but they definitely do not understand. Oh well.


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## Bikehigh (Jan 14, 2004)

I'm not a guyly guy. I don't like to talk about sex. Hmm, I sure do like to think about it a lot though. I do like to talk about hot women though. Maybe I am a guyly guy. Let's check the lists!

Girly guy list:

I love to shop
I love to cook
Involved with my kids. ( got custody after divorce )
Hate talking about sports
Hate chasing skirts when in a relationship

Guyly guy list:

Change my own oil
Watch football
Love nookie
Boobs? Hell yeah!
Ass? Fuggin' aye!!!
Dirty clothes on floor? Yup!
Blood and mud? What blood? Oh, how did that happen?
I like girly girls who like the outdoors. Just don't put on cologne before we go hiking. It attracts flys. If you really NEEED to take a bubble bath every morning, who am I to complain.

I think it's a toss up.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

MTBerJim said:


> The guys that talk about shopping are normally gay (Not That There Is Anything Wrong With That)!!!
> I find it's more like guys that participate in athletics don't watch nearly as much sports on TV. My room mate is a perfect example of that, every spring I get the old this year I'm going to ride with you-get in shape-eat better-work less-blah blah blah. I invite him to come riding; he says no I got whatever to do. I come home to him watching the Mets a cursing at the TV.
> 
> Jim D.


There's an exception to every stereotype. One of the guys I race with, who also races motocross - also apparently watches every single thing they show on ESPN. We were stuck in the condo in BH due to lightning and he was an expert on Ultimate Fighting, Curling (?!?), ping-pong, poker, golf, baseball, the Bassmaster's fishing competition... I seriously thought he was kidding, but apparently he seriously watches all of that crap on TV, when he's not out riding. And I had been wondering who in the hell watches fishing on TV... now I know.


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## Bikehigh (Jan 14, 2004)

When there's no good cooking shows on, I like watching fishing shows too!


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

connie said:


> There's an exception to every stereotype. One of the guys I race with, who also races motocross - also apparently watches every single thing they show on ESPN. We were stuck in the condo in BH due to lightning and he was an expert on Ultimate Fighting, Curling (?!?), ping-pong, poker, golf, baseball, the Bassmaster's fishing competition... I seriously thought he was kidding, but apparently he seriously watches all of that crap on TV, when he's not out riding. And I had been wondering who in the hell watches fishing on TV... now I know.


My brother is like this - he listens or watches sports on TV constantly.


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## sportsman (Mar 2, 2004)

Impy said:


> My brother is like this - he listens or watches sports on TV constantly.


me 2. I guess more correctly, I was like this. I watch a little less sports in the past couple of years (still a lot, just ask my gf). I just can't help it. I'd much rather be out doing something, so I am outside a lot, but when I'm inside, and sportschick isn't in the room, sports (or some technology show) is on. There aren't too may sports that I can't carry on a conversation about (maybe cricket, but I had a roommate once from India that was a cricket fanatic, so some of it rubbed off)

gotta live up to the pressure of being a sportsman.

I don't watch fishing, but I've seen lots of fishing shows at my parents..


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*I've seen her...*



Impy said:


> I do dress up for work, it is the professional thing to do, but off work I don't worry too much about what I look like.


 I once saw Impy in her 'day clothes' and it was kinda freaky. I met up with her at her office (at the time) on the way to a ride. I hardly recognized her. She cleans up real nice 

My wife OTOH, has to do her hair before working in the garden out in the front yard. She is not afraid to get dirty, but she has to look good doing it.


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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)

*Don't believe her*



Ly Ly said:


> I've thought about this question from a lot in my life (mostly because sometimes I think I'm adopted or just plain weird). My sisters are total girly girls. My parents never were the outdoor type and I don't have any brothers. My cousins are mostly guys but none are outdoorsy. Yet, I seem to be the black sheep in the family.
> 
> I know it's really the way I was raised. We didn't have much growing up so I couldn't join any conversation on the latest fashion, trends, make up, whatever girls talk about these days. It's not that I feel uncomfortable talking about these things. It's more I have no knowledge about it so I choose not to contribute. I'm very practical too so I don't really want to spend time on make up when I can sleep in for another twenty minutes (this is how long I'd take to pretty myself up).
> 
> I don't mind the occasional dressing up to go out. I think it's fun every once in awhile, but I prefer doing something, anything, over standing around and talking about make up and clothes. I've become more of a girly girl in last few years, but I haven't lost the tomboyish side of me. I think that's there to stay! In fact, I think most people are surprised when they find out what I'm really like. It's refreshing to be able to dispel the stereotypes people use when they meet me. Either way, I still think girls rule no matter what type!


I agree with most of what Ly Ly says about herself. But, I've seen her dress up and she is drop dead gorgeous. The best of both worlds?


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## Jewell of D(enial) (Apr 25, 2005)

I think the above mentioned issue has at quite a bit to do with the enviroment one grows up in and the things exposed and not exposed to as a kid... 

Yesterday my guy and I were eating in a food court at an outdoor mall (necessary "nutrition" before heading to Sport Mart for last odds and ends for a backpack trip to the Sierra's this weekend) and I couldn't help staring/assesing/contemplating a group of early teen girls hanging out, seemingly passing time gossiping, laughing and generally having a good time. I zoned out as I compared the scene to the totally oppsite scene that was mine at that age. I have no memories of wearing tight jeans, bably t's, carrying bags of shoes and more baby t's, flipping my flat-ironed (I just learned what a flat iron was last month) bleached and streaked hair around to cover up my smirk/giggle as two twelve-year old skater kids walk by, as my friends and I sip Venti Starbucks Fraps waiting for our moms in the mall. 

I was the cute, petite "tom-boy" type and have vivid memories of rollerblading, snowsking with my dad a brothers wanting to be better than anyone else on the Mt., waterskiing and getting mad when I couln't successfully link 10-15 slalom turns with out taking a fall that would knock the air out of me, jumping the wakeboard as high as my older brother, backpacking, "mountain biking" (before we knew what it was and before it became an awesome culture) with my best friend at the age of 12 for hours at a time on some "singletrack" that now I find out hosts a major x-country race in the Napa Valley, crying and yelling when the guys wouldn't throw me (a girl) and my best friend the football during recess, exploring mud caves, hiking mountians, making forts and playing in poison oak, collecting scorpians in jars, catching grasshoppers, camping, and so much more. 

Thanks Mom and Dad for living 45 minutes from the nearest mall!


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## kawboy8 (May 5, 2004)

You girls are HOT....your sis in the middle looks a little disgruntled though...maybe she has to go to the rest room? Kidding...well..



Shannon-UT said:


> Here is me and my sisters. I'm on the right (the oldest). The one who spray tans everyother day is the one graduating, though it doesn't look as extreme in this photo. This was a very fun day!


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## MidAtlanticXCer (May 21, 2004)

*good quote*



Dude said:


> It was told to us the other day that as women get older they toughen up and as men get older they turn into cupcakes.


Oh, I like that! Y'know, it especially fits into my experience of men who have daughters. I think it's a good thing. Cheers.


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## MidAtlanticXCer (May 21, 2004)

*green?!*

Tell her to ditch the eye-shadow, ick!


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## -kelly- (Mar 11, 2004)

Jewell of D(enial) said:


> I think the above mentioned issue has at quite a bit to do with the enviroment one grows up in and the things exposed and not exposed to as a kid...
> I was the cute, petite "tom-boy" type and have vivid memories of rollerblading, snowsking with my dad a brothers wanting to be better than anyone else on the Mt., waterskiing and getting mad when I couln't successfully link 10-15 slalom turns with out taking a fall that would knock the air out of me, jumping the wakeboard as high as my older brother, backpacking, "mountain biking" (before we knew what it was and before it became an awesome culture) with my best friend at the age of 12 for hours at a time on some "singletrack" that now I find out hosts a major x-country race in the Napa Valley, crying and yelling when the guys wouldn't throw me (a girl) and my best friend the football during recess, exploring mud caves, hiking mountians, making forts and playing in poison oak, collecting scorpians in jars, catching grasshoppers, camping, and so much more.
> 
> Thanks Mom and Dad for living 45 minutes from the nearest mall!


This pretty much sums up my childhood. Thanks to my mom and dad. Dad for intoducing my sister and I to many outdoor activities and thanks to my mom for supporting our endeavors. My mom was the type when we would go swimming she didn't like to get her hair wet. She was an avid gardener though and didn't mind getting dirty. The first time I tried snowskiing, my dad and I headed out to try some xc skiing, we got bored and headed over to our local ski hill and proceeded to teach ourselves how to alpine ski. 5 years later we both became a ski instructors. At age 8 I was waterskiing slalom. I was always competing with the boys trying to throw the biggest spray. I also know all about begging the boys in school to throw me the football. In 5th grade my best friend and I decided to rub poison ivy all over our bodies so we could get the chance to stay home from school and play sick. Well, both of us ended up with severe poison ivy and chicken pox! My mom was so embarrased when she took me to the doctor and had to explain how I ended up with poison ivy. The doctor actually took pictures of me because he had never seen such an acute case.

I like most outdoorsy women have girly tendancies. I can clean up if I have to. I don't carry a purse. Never have, never will. I much prefer a bacpack.I am just a low maintenance kind of gal. Maybe a little mascara and lip gloss for a special occasion. I recently entertained the notion of getting some highlights. I can just consult my sister when I need a tune-up of the girly type. She truly is a girly girl with a smattering of outdoor interests.


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## Shannon-UT (Mar 26, 2004)

Thanks kawboy! 

The one in the middle (who just got a Masters of Jurisprudence in Health Law) loves the eye makeup. She has such big pretty eyes without all that goo, and I tell her she doesn't need all that stuff. I think she was fake smiling there because she was smiling all day for photos.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

Dude said:


> It was told to us the other day that as women get older they toughen up and as men get older they turn into cupcakes.....


mmm. cupcakes. 









I love cupcakes. I pretend I am making them for other people but then I eat them all. I don't let myself make them very often for this reason.


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

-kelly- said:


> . I was always competing with the boys trying to throw the biggest spray. I also know all about begging the boys in school to throw me the football. .


Hehe this sounds familiar. I have a very vivid memory of being at my grandparents, not far from our house, and patiently waiting until my grandmother had put my hair all up in curlers. The minute she was done I ran pell mell out of the house to the street, where my brothers and the neighborhood boys were about to start a football game. I always played with them - for some reason no little girls in the neighborhood so that is how I grew up. They were always cool about letting me play too, and my brothers woudl not tolerate me throwing like a girl - I had to really throw the football/baseball/rocks - whatever we were throwing. Loved bugs, salamanders, firecrackers, looking under logs and rocks, climbing trees, all that good stuff. Also got in fights with the brothers which wasn't a problem when we were little but holy smokes their punches HURT when they got bigger.


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

Impy said:


> Also got in fights with the brothers which wasn't a problem when we were little but holy smokes their punches HURT when they got bigger.


My sister kicked like a fricking mule. Seriously, I've been kicked by a mule and the only difference was the steel shoe.


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## Lutarious (Feb 8, 2005)

*Sweaty Girls smell good*

How is it that men can smell like skunk pee after a 30 minute spin, but my GF smells like my GF after three hours of climbing rocky ruts in the rain?


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## ArmySlowRdr (Dec 19, 2003)

*yeah*

haven't had time but to read the first several responses but here's my thoughts---

well there's supposed to be a gulf i guess as evidenced by the word "metro". But mainly most manly men would think a metro is likely just straight up queer.

i have more GFs myself than hangin' with the guys--unless its biking. fighting, cars, mechanics, hunting etsc etc etc just don't motivate me.

thankfully most ladies know I'm a flirt and love 'em and 100% red blooded male even though I hate most of the above things i mentioned---so I get called kind a lot. That's OK--now the "broad" who called me effiminate years ago--I still loathe her.



wunderhorn said:


> Be a man by making money, or being a firefighter, a professor, an athlete, a father, even if you're physically unattractive (within bounds) but don't dare do anything society considers "gay."


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## Biker/Boater Chick (Aug 12, 2005)

*Nature vs Nurture*

When I read this I had to laugh...I am definately anything but a girly girl. My mom and I had a conversation like this the other day..Her question ..Where did I come from?? She told me (in a nice way) that she had never really wanted a girl so when she found out her first was a boy she was extremely happy...after 3 years with him I came along  and by that time she was sooooo excited to have a little girl.. Then she said WHAT HAPPENED?!? (Thanks mom) I was in no way a little girl, by the time I could walk and talk I refussed anything girly, no dresses, tights, skirts nothing like that. The only girly thing i ever had was Cabbage Patch Kids and they were all boys.. I use to take my brothers trucks and GI Joe action figures, with hellish cosequences of course, but it was worth having something fun to play with. My pet of choice when I was little ...WORMS still resque them from dry pavement to this day.. they were my friends. So to answer my moms question I have no idea where I came from. My brother and I did grow up on a farm but it wasnt a "working farm" it was just 80 acres of fun for us. I think the lack of neighbors had a lot to do with how I turned out becuase it meant my brother was really the only person I got to play with (if getting thrown out of trees, pushed into ponds and beat up all the time is what you consider playing) so it is probably his fault I turned out the way I did so thanks Jason. Neither of my parents ever took us camping or hiking let alone ww kayaking or mt biking. My mom still has a heart attack whenever I tell her I am off to run a class III-IV river, when I tell her I am going for a ride she thinks I am going down the canal path she just doesnt get it. My brother doesnt even do the things I do although I am teaching him to ww kayak, it gives me great pride to teach my BIG brother. So I dont think it is entirely how you are brought up.. It goes into that great debate Nature Vs Nurture. An anthropologists never ending debate.


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

Lutarious said:


> How is it that men can smell like skunk pee after a 30 minute spin, but my GF smells like my GF after three hours of climbing rocky ruts in the rain?


Because you're into having sex with women.


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## Zonic Man (Dec 19, 2003)

The one win my wife had this year on the road she wore a miniskirt, heels, makeup, and jewelry before putting on the leader's jersey for the stage race.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

Today I was at our LBS and drooling over the new women's jerseys they made- there's a picture of a hair dryer, stilletto, Hershey's bar and a brush coming out of the back pocket  and it's mostly pink! Alas, the small size sold out, and they may not be ordering more for a long time.

So I got my girlie girl fix with a pair of pink SheBeest socks. Those'll have to do for now.


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## cbharping (Mar 22, 2004)

I was a total tomboy growing up. My knees are full of scars from my childhood, now I'm just adding to the scar collection in my 30s since I started mountain biking! I was attracted to dirt when I was a kid, too...my cousin (total girlie-girl even then) and I would go outside to play. When we came back in, she was still immaculate and I was covered in dirt from head to toe. Go figure...

Guess I never grew out of the tomboy, dirt-attracting kid! I'd never have it any other way.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I would put my wife into the "little bit of both" category. She cleans up really nice, but it still happy to get out and backpack or ride her bike in the mud. She will occasionally put a LITTLE makeup on before she goes out on a ride (her complexion isn't perfect), but she ridicules the women/girls who pile it on heavy. She doesn't do the manicure/pedicure thing, but she will on occasion (once a month or less?) buff her nails a little. She would rather wear comfortable clothes than something that hurts like hell just b/c it looks "cute". She has heels, but they're pretty low. That's about as far as she'll go.

From what I can tell, the only time she encounters a rift with other people is when the people around her are telling stories about their college days of getting piss drunk and discussing the pros/cons of various illicit drugs they have tried or wanted to try.

I seem to be planted somewhere in the middle, as well. I wrench on my own bike, and usually wrench on my own gasoline powered vehicles. I don't know every technical detail, but I can hold my own in a conversation. I understand lots of sports, but only enjoy watching or playing a few. Again, I can hold my own in conversation. I can also talk computers, home theater, home improvement, gardening/landscaping, tools with varying levels of expertise, but with at least a passable amount of knowledge and experience. I like cooking (both on the grill and on the stove), and do more cooking than my wife. I also like keeping houseplants. It would seem that I'm more of a manly man in this regard, but I have a difficult time relating to the typical manly man. I actually have more gay male friends than straight, even though they don't understand a THING about the technical stuff I can talk about with other guys.


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## gabrielle (Jan 2, 2005)

*interesting thread!*



oldbroad said:


> So I am curious about how there can be such a gulf and how it comes about. Do you think it is how you are raised? Was your Mom the out door type? Lots of brothers maybe? Were you girlie-girl and rebelled?


I know it wasn't how I was raised. I went camping *once* before college, and it was with the Girl Scouts, at a place with a dining hall. I wasn't girly-girl, but wasn't a tomboy either - I was a couch potato, actually. I was more interested in reading science fiction than doing things like, say, combing my hair. 



moonbeam said:


> I have always been better friends with the boys and have that deer in the headlights look with super girly girls...I can't really "talk the talk" of purses and stuff.


I have *zilch* in common with 99% of the women I encounter in my day-to-day life, & have no idea how to talk to most of them. At one party I was asked by one of the "wives" re Mr Gabrielle: "you _let_ him have 10 kayaks?" I just can't even follow that line of reasoning. So I usually end up out on the porch with the guys sharing "adventure stories."

Interestingly, all of my good female friends say the same thing - they get along better with men, and only rarely form friendships with other females.

gabrielle


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

> Originally Posted by oldbroad
> So I am curious about how there can be such a gulf and how it comes about. Do you think it is how you are raised? Was your Mom the out door type? Lots of brothers maybe? Were you girlie-girl and rebelled?


My mom went from being a fashion plate to a bra burner Steinem feminist, so you can forget anything girly being passed on at my house. I was forbidden Barbies, never had any makeup/hair bonding, etc. But we were intellectuals, not outdoorsy at all. I guess I was a quintessential clean but long haired hippy chick for a long time. 

Then, I met the man I ultimately married. I'd been dayhiking some, backpacking once, but it turned into, "you want to be with me, learn how to be in the outdoors." I'm thinking that because I wasn't indoctrinated in girly-girl stuff, it was easy to transition into not being bothered by sleeping on the ground, packing a 40 # pack and not having a real shower for a week. I learned to be comfortable in the outdoors. Transition that into mountainbike dirt, hee hee...

Funny thing is, I got into a sales job for a while and had to learn all that purse/shoe makeup stuff I didn't learn from my mom or my girlfriends. Sure, I can do it now but I just hate it. I keep my hair in a wash-n-go that doesn't even require a comb most of the time now. Mainly I like to do the coodinating sock jersey thing becuase it's fun and it annoys some people.

formica


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## MtbGirl32 (Jul 15, 2004)

oldbroad said:


> ... the conversation at the table was all about purses & shoes with the occasional husband & kids topic just to mix things up. 2 hours of _serious_ talk about where to buy, how to match, how to wear, etc. On the other hand they were just as not interested in my idea of a good time is getting sweaty & dirty as I was not interested in their idea of shopping all day. Now, I know how to do all the girlie-girl things, and I clean up real nice if I have to  but for the most part that stuff just has no appeal to me.


I feel your pain...  I've been a tomboy all my life, I don't have any brothers and my mother definitely is not the outdoor type. I think I am just genetically programmed this way... must have a few Y chromosomes mixed in there... 

I don't mind some feminine touches here & there, but I don't wear skirts and I would rather not carry a purse if I can possibly help it!!! I'm also not into jewelry, which makes it tough for my boyfriend to buy pretty, sparkly things for me, but on the other hand I get some cool bike stuff from him!!


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## polariss (Jan 12, 2004)

*OT...non bike...*



oldbroad said:


> The threads about women who get out into the great out doors as opposed to the women who don't has got me thinking.....
> 
> Sometimes when I'm interacting with other women, I find myself thinking that they are some other species. (No snide remarks yet guys)
> I remember going to a birthday brunch recently and the conversation at the table was all about purses & shoes with the occasional husband & kids topic just to mix things up.
> ...


I must say that this also affects me (e ffects or a ffects....wait I don't care...) at work. the best example (btw, I'm in Law Enforcement...so) was I had gotten back from a 2 month tour in Kabul, Afghanistan....and a good friend of mine (who's also a LEO girl) was having her baby shower, at the four seasons for tea. So as we're sitting there all primped up...eating our small finger sandwhich sipping tea...with our pinky's up the girls want to know how afghanistan went....so as I sip my tea I tell them how I got to shoot machine guns, road in humvee's carried a freaking long rifle, and a side arm....then complained about how dry it was out there, and my dry skin, soon after we talked about shoes, and purses.....

So it's kinda the same...I don't mind getty dirty, but I also hate when my heels get stuck in wet gras....I agree with Sabine I now carry a file with me...something guys thought was ridiculous, but when I break a nail...I have to fix it (again..this happened in Haiti...and the guys were like WTF? giving your self a manicure...) but it bothers me....

I did grow up with an older brother, though and most of my friend growing up and still are guys. However, I do enjoy the girl stuff...if you go through my closet you'll see 100 pairs of shoes ranging from bike, kayaking, climbing, hiking, dress, casual, work out, flip flops, evening shoes.....everything!! and I still need more!!

it's a nice balance...ok I think I went of on a tangent....I miss posting and riding!

m


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

polariss said:


> I must say that this also affects me (e ffects or a ffects....wait I don't care...) at work.


Care or not, your word usage was correct.


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## norcal2carolina (Sep 4, 2005)

Zonic Man said:


> You can be a girly girl and an outdoor girl.


I'm not a girly-girl, but I'm not a butch-girl either. I can clean up pretty nicely and can look pretty hot. Or at least, that's what my husband tells me!

I grew up playing mostly with the boys in the neighborhood, but luckily had two girl best friends who also were tomboy-ish, too. I climbed trees, played kickball, rode my Roller-Racer all day, jumped off homemade ramps on my scooter, and checked out books at the library about karate and practiced the kicks in my bedroom because my mom would never sign me up for karate. I had about 20 Barbies and all kinds of accessories to go with them, but only played with them when my mom would force me and my two best friends to play with them.

I have an older brother and no sisters. My mom was a total girly-girl. The kind of woman who wouldn't even run to the quickie-mart to pick up a gallon of milk unless she was freshly showered, had put on 3 different outfits, done her hair up all nicely, put on makeup, the whole bit. I wear make up on average once a week, and when I do, it's light eyeshadow, very light eyeliner, and lip gloss. I luckily work in athletics/sports, so I get to wear t-shirts, running shorts, baseball cap when it's a bad hair day, whatever, as long as it's clean and not ripped/stained.

One of the biggest things I do several times daily that truly shows I'm not a girly-girl is burping. Drinking out of a camelbak means I'm seriously going to let out a mighty belch. Yeah, a lot of people do that from drinking out of straws, but I'm really burp-prone. I can belch like a drunk idiot after eating a bowl of cereal, and when I get excited about a certain subject or talk on the phone, a belch is sure to happen. I've learned to control it in places where it needs to be, like at work, but I'm so belch-prone, I sometimes have thought about going to see a doctor about it.


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## ArmySlowRdr (Dec 19, 2003)

*and*

we sure miss you posting regularly.



polariss said:


> I ..I miss posting and riding!
> 
> m


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