# Elevated chainstay bike history questions.



## vintagemtbr (Jun 6, 2004)

Hey guys. Long time no see. 
I just picked up a Nashbar 4000X elevated chainstay bike,about 1990 I think.As I was checking out the bike I started wondering who came up with the design for elevated chainstay mountain bikes? When did they show up? I think they started showing up around 1990 but I'm sure there were earlier examples. 
As for the bike,I haven't taken it out for a ride on the trail yet. I know that the e-stay bikes had their good and bad points. I just want to know the history of these bikes. Thanks.


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

E-Stay bikes became popular around 1990 and they hung around for at least three or four more years, if not more. I own a 1991 FUNK E-Stay and it is very stiff. The last list I saw of bike makers that made an E-Stay ran over 25 different brands-some good, some junk. The only advantage I can see with this design is no chain suck + you can remove the chain without breaking it.


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## Zanetti (Sep 18, 2005)

Yeti Ultimate and the Nishiki Alien were some of the earliest models -- 1988/1989. 

The good:

Chainsuck eliminated, chainwrap results in no frame damage.

Ability to run whatever chainring setup/crank length/Q-factor you wanted without frame limitations.

Super-short chainstays with no tire clearance issues. The very first "Fatties Fit Fine" design.

The Bad:

Frame flex at the BB and dropouts. I broke three Aliens before resorting back to a traditional frame.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Zanetti said:


> Yeti Ultimate and the Nishiki Alien were some of the earliest models -- 1988/1989.
> 
> The good:
> 
> ...


additions for the bad:

heavier
weaker
still had the same (mostly) Q factor limitations due to crank arms hitting stays
shorter stays made them handle worse for everything but climbing (IMO)


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## Zanetti (Sep 18, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> additions for the bad:
> 
> heavier
> weaker
> ...


All true.


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## ewbee (Feb 22, 2009)

http://www.blackbirdsf.org/xframe/valkyrieec.html

SEE 1989..........
http://www.yetifan.com/the_history_of_yeti.html


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

*nothing without pics*

posted before..all I could find right now...they may be weak and flexy, but they are still cool


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

*a couple more*

can't find a pic of my Haro Extreme...but heres a few more :thumbsup:


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

July 1990


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Brave had e-stay bikes in '89---the Warrior. 

I have two. I really like how they ride on twisty trails.Climbing and acceleration feel noticeably different. 
Actually kind of feels like a unicycle sometimes, with the rear wheel tucked in so tight. Really fun woods bikes.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

*found the Haro*

I think this is it...


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## gsomtb (Jul 18, 2007)

I had the 3 color neon fade Haro Extreme in 90.....warranteed and the black replced it.

Anyone have pics of the neon?


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## vintagemtbr (Jun 6, 2004)

The 4000X does have a short chainstay at 15.5 inches. I figured it will be a good climber.The bike is heavy.Pretty much agree with everyone else about the good and bad. 
I had the same Haro Extreme (same color) like Stan's bike but it cracked just under the down tube.But then I was a fat ass when I broke it. I have another frame but I'm not going to bother building it. 
Hey I appreciate the photos guys.


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## dirtdrop (Dec 29, 2003)

1991 carbon steel mix.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

da'HOOV said:


> *Found the Haro
> *I think this is it...


Would it have taken you more or less time to find the actual bike?


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## ae111black (Dec 27, 2008)

not at all VRC but mine none the less '08 prophet!


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

Boy named SSue said:


> Would it have taken you more or less time to find the actual bike?


oh...you very funny man  ..but less. I know where it is, getting to it is the problem, kinda buried :thumbsup:


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

I had a 1992 Alpinestars Almega DX.

In regards to the good and bad comments, I found that bike to work very well. The handling seemed very good, the short stays gave good mechanical grip for the rear tire and the 7005 aluminum seemed to put the power to the ground with minimal flex. Also, the frame angles had the head angle around 70 as opposed to the conventional 71. This for me, let the bike typically setup for turns with a bit of steering input from the rear tire. In other words, the bike had a feel similar to a dirt bike under acceleration where the rear tire would slightly step out.

I will say that at the time I thought the oversize handle bars and what seemed to be a longer top tube with the slacker headtube angle was odd. However, now the current handlebars are all oversize like the Alpinestars of the early 90's, Headtubes on many bikes are slackened, Plus this long top tube concept seems popular.

Thing that killed my frame, the silly non clamp type front der, which they repaired, but ultimately the downtube cracked just below the gusset, 

They did warranty it for a newer double diamond True Temper OXIII frame that is now my urban build with all the old DX sruff, except for some LX brakes.

PK


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Might as well throw in a few of mine...

Top Image Neptune, basically the old rocky cirrus jigs were sold from a japanese maker to a taiwan one, and they used traditional seatstays instead of a monostay but otherwise its the same dimensions of tubes, geometry and layout.










My alpinestars Ti Mega, whose frame currently hangs in my basement with a huge crack thru the right chainstay above the dropout.










A Trimble Inverted frame I used to own...


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Incidently, E-stays on the drive side make an excellent way to run a belt-drive, without needing a split dropout assembly to change the damn belt.


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## Caffeine Powered (Mar 31, 2005)

Singlespeed El-stay theme:

Cinelli had one too back around 1989. I remember selling one. Here's one I see frequently at a local mall. I think the rider works there.









Here's my brother's El Cheapo SS he put together about 2 years ago...


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

ae111black said:


> not at all VRC but mine none the less '08 prophet!


The design never went away, if you consider FS bikes. Here's are two more: one from the mid 90s and one from the mid 2000s.


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## JoeC (Jan 25, 2009)

*Yes or No*

Is Turner 5.Spot considered to be an elevated chainstay bike?


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

Feb 1991 catalog at MOMBAT - Merlin E-stay, one of the best of the bunch.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Yes the Turner 5 spot employs an elevated chainstay design to its swingarm. Actually only the RFX and DHX don't use E-stays.


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## andrez (Jan 26, 2010)

Just found this at local shop a week ago........
(NOS) ALPINESTARS CROMEGA DX 1993...enjoy!


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

Caffeine Powered said:


> Singlespeed El-stay theme:
> 
> Cinelli had one too back around 1989. I remember selling one. Here's one I see frequently at a local mall. I think the rider works there.


That "Cinelli" looks exactly like the Mrazek...who built what? Does anyone know the story?"


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## LWright (Jan 29, 2006)

Santa Cruz single pivots are elevated chainstays


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Looks like Mrazek is still building frames:
http://www.mrazek.com/


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

scott also had one (besides the endorphin) i think, from early 90's...

for me, I don't consider FS bikes E-stay bikes, sure the chain stay IS elevated, but.. the're just not quite the same as an e-stay hardtail... (just what i think)


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

That black frame is a Mrazek

The Cinelli was basically just a rebadged Fisher.
sorta like this one at Mombat http://mombat.org/1991_Fisher_Montare.htm


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

Surprised no one mentioned it but, where does that MBA project bike that inspired the yeti ultimate fall into this. I don't remember if it was before or after the Alien? Anyone have pics of pics of it to post?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

ckevlar said:


> Surprised no one mentioned it but, where does that MBA project bike that inspired the yeti ultimate fall into this. I don't remember if it was before or after the Alien? Anyone have pics of pics of it to post?


Could be before.

I bought my Yeti Ultimate from the original owner and he included the paperwork from when he bought it. November of 1989. The MBA project was a 3 or 4 part series earlier in the year. The bike didn't have the loop stays and Tomes was pictured riding it.

I'm not sure if Yeti was actually the first to do it. Seems unlikely.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Bad picture of neglected EC bikes.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Richard Cunningham was the guy behind the Alien which unleashed the elevated chainstay boom. The MBA protobike was after and became the ultimate. Unsaid by MBA was that their project bike was based on the Gecko Genesis. They compounded the insult by saying the Geneis, which preceded the project bike, looked like the project bike. As between R. Cunningham and K. Beach, I don't know who first developed EC, but I am pretty sure it was one of them.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

bushpig said:


> Richard Cunningham was the guy behind the Alien which unleashed the elevated chainstay boom. The MBA protobike was after and became the ultimate. Unsaid by MBA was that their project bike was based on the Gecko Genesis. They compounded the insult by saying the Geneis, which preceded the project bike, looked like the project bike. As between R. Cunningham and K. Beach, I don't know who first developed EC, but I am pretty sure it was one of them.


The first Elevated Mantis XCR was made for 1989 Interbike (I think..it was one of the trade shows)
The elevated Valkyrie was about the same time, 1989, although I dont know which was first. Pure speculation but I'd think the elevated Valykrie would have been easier to make.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

mik_git said:


> scott also had one (besides the endorphin) i think, from early 90's...
> 
> for me, I don't consider FS bikes E-stay bikes, sure the chain stay IS elevated, but.. the're just not quite the same as an e-stay hardtail... (just what i think)


I agree with you, rigid E-stay bikes died as far as I recall and then rear suspension created some new needs for certain applications/designs.


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## jack lantern (Jun 23, 2006)

What the heck, I'll add my two cents...


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## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

My current ti bike; Amaro Vitti:


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

I like the red Brave! So that's the one you kept??


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

*to the OP..*

I see these occasionally, look around...

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/bik/1588155435.html


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## vintagemtbr (Jun 6, 2004)

My Nashbar 4000X. I took it out for a spin today.Not a bad bike.Rides pretty much like the way you guys say a e-stay bike rides.I'll be keeping the BioPace instead of switching to round rings like I usually do. Nice Brave frame and Rumphy's bikes hanging on the ceiling look cool too.


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## jack lantern (Jun 23, 2006)

yo-Nate-y said:


> I like the red Brave! So that's the one you kept??


That's the one. I'm pretty happy with the way it came out.


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## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

Oh, what the hell...


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

i want one


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

jack lantern said:


> That's the one. I'm pretty happy with the way it came out.


Looks awesome. I have been enjoying the other two, but I think I am going to pare down to just the three-color--slightly better fit.


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## jack lantern (Jun 23, 2006)

yo-Nate-y said:


> Looks awesome. I have been enjoying the other two, but I think I am going to pare down to just the three-color--slightly better fit.


Same went for me. That one's (red / black / green) the same size as the one I kept. Mine is actually built up however it's not totally period-correct. 1st gen XT vbrakes, Cooks F series cranks (thx Rumpfy), 1st gen Mavic Cross Rides and an M737 rear der.

Got any photos of yours yet?


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

I built up the neon yellow with a mess of 3DV parts, but the weather was bad so it sat though I rode it around my apartment  Then I ended up taking the tricolor out a few times and really dug it so I took the neon apart again!

I'll get some proper pics of the tricolor up soon. Stuff I changed/added: ATAC stem, Hyperlite, Ritchey foam grips and Logic saddle, XT platforms, XT 730/Araya Rm-17 wheels, and I switched the rear mech to a short cage XT 735. It is a really fun ride.

Get some pics up of the red once it is finished. Or if it already is, go take some!


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## vintagemtbr (Jun 6, 2004)

*I have a K2.*



KDXdog said:


> Oh, what the hell...


 Just waiting for some parts. Nice looking bike.


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## zingel (Feb 23, 2006)

spring 1988









fall 1988


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

1. Daryl Funk's first bike - summer '88 or '89
2. 1991 Alpinestars T26 - so flexy the rear gears would change while climbing, under my 120 lb. wife. Maybe the aluminum version was stiffer.


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## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

Very nice bikes!


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## andrez (Jan 26, 2010)

*Almost NOS*

My Alpinestars Cromega (NOS) finally done, I build up with almost all NOS parts, took it out for some test today, it's feel good actually, the cromo tubing makes a different feels of riding....


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## felixdelrio (May 27, 2006)

from an ECS Maniac ...


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## HandsomeRyan (Dec 12, 2008)

Can anyone ID this bike from the craptacular craigslist ad photo?


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Yo Felix... that Funk is awesome.


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## monogodo (Apr 26, 2005)

Caffeine Powered said:


> Here's my brother's El Cheapo SS he put together about 2 years ago...


I really need to take updated pics of El Chupacabra.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

You see a lot of those top image neptune builds because ediscountbike was blowing the frames out on ebay, at one time as low as $9.99 for a brand new frame.


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## monogodo (Apr 26, 2005)

DeeEight said:


> You see a lot of those top image neptune builds because ediscountbike was blowing the frames out on ebay, at one time as low as $9.99 for a brand new frame.


I got mine from them for $9.99 + 6.99 shipping, with a free K2 baseball cap thrown in. I figure for less than $20, I couldn't go wrong. Total initial build out-of-pocket cost was just over $300, which is the way it's depicted above. I've since had the cranks powder coated black, changed the tires (replaced the 10+ year old Panaracers with new Kendas), brakes (replaced the free crappy V-brake knock-offs with $10 Avid V-brakes), computer (wired Cateye replaced cheap wireless that went haywire around my router), bottom bracket (the initial one was too short, my ankles hit the chainstays), and added a Shock Board front fender.

I love how it rides, and have had no problems with it.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

This was parked outside the office some days ago:










18 Speed!
Shimano!
Hi Ten Plain Gauge!


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## freeridelife (May 9, 2007)

Fillet-brazed said:


> additions for the bad:
> shorter stays made them handle worse for everything but climbing (IMO)


100% depends on the person. Definitely agree w/ the opinion part. I myself, which came from a BMX racing, DJ, and Street background like an uberly short chainstay, and find it handles the best if the headtube is slacked enough.IE up your fork travel and it will mellow out that short rear, and do it in a way that you can "crack" through berms (visualize it through the word) lol.


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

There's a guy around here who shreds on an old Alpinestars elevated chainstay bike. It's polished, has a frighteningly short wheelbase and looks rad as fvck.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

The wheelbase on mine is very short. It rips up the climbs, carves up tight singletrack and scares the shite outta me coming downhill. This bike has facial reconstructive surgery written all over it. At least if you spit blood all over it nobody will notice. I actually put a 90mm stem on it and it is much better now. I can actually point it downhill without being afraid to use the front brake.


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

Sounds like you have a fun ride in your bike, sandmangts!


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## SHADES (Feb 23, 2005)

sandmangts said:


> This bike has facial reconstructive surgery written all over it.]


Consider that line...stolen!

jb


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

in my(not so) humble opinion, the first elevated chainstay bike was made by my good friend don "the lung" mclung and his partner, mike rust around '85.they named it "the shorty". it incorporated a track (bent) seatpost, and was SHORT. i saw a pic of one, somewhere in this website. anyone know where? don still makes bikes, called backyard bicycles. also referred to as "the don". the coolest ss 29er im(ns)ho.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

E-stay frames with the semi-horizontal slotted dropouts (especially common on crmo framed ones) are especially useful today if you want to try a belt-drive out. The slotted dropouts allow for a bit of tension adjustment and the E-stay means no problem fitting the belt.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> E-stay frames with the semi-horizontal slotted dropouts (especially common on crmo framed ones) are especially useful today if you want to try a belt-drive out. The slotted dropouts allow for a bit of tension adjustment and the E-stay means no problem fitting the belt.


Doh! Why didn't I think of that.


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## Pepperman (Oct 14, 2004)

Another Warrior...


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Very cool 
Looks brand new!


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Here's one I built









Frame unknown


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## JokerW (Nov 5, 2004)

No pictures of a Brave with only a single elevated chainstay?
I remember seeing those around once in awhile back in '89-'91.

I raced an Alien ACX back then. 
I thought it handled better on fireroads than the Kleins I owned later. 
The dropouts pulled out of seatstays/chainstays, but I rebrazed them back in, and added small stainless steel gussets near the dropouts to hold the the rear triangle together. Eventually, the chainstay on the drive side exploded at the tube brace, killing the bike. 
I asked R. Cunningham if they had any rear ends (they were the same as the Mantis ones), but he told me that they had "dumped" their old stock of bolt-on rear triangles. Arrrgh!

Years later I found a frame on eBay. 
It's cracked at the top of seat post, seems the seatpost and the seat tube don't really mate well together.
I ride it 2-3 times a week at lunch here in Berdoo, pavement only.


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## medieval (Oct 7, 2007)

Wow, all these nice bikes, and not one picture of a Hoo-Koo-E-Koo! I guess I'll have to pull mine down and get some shots of it, to add to this thread.


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## jgerhardt (Aug 31, 2009)

medieval said:


> Wow, all these nice bikes, and not one picture of a Hoo-Koo-E-Koo! I guess I'll have to pull mine down and get some shots of it, to add to this thread.


I used t have the bright orange Hoo-Koo-E-Koo, I sold it to a friend awhile ago and hope to get back when I move back to MO. Please post a pic of yours!!!:thumbsup:


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

I'm not medieval but will this do....?


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## jgerhardt (Aug 31, 2009)

da'HOOV said:


> I'm not medieval but will this do....?


'HOOV you are the MAN!
I have been looking for a pic of that bike forever (never actually occurred of me to ask for one in the forums...).
That was my first MTB I ever bought... and probably one of my single biggest mistakes was selling it.


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## mattytruth (Aug 2, 2006)

This is my Yokota Terminator. I just picked it up recently & dont' know much about the company. I added the fork, stem & bars. I need to pick up some v brakes tomorrow & take it for a ride. This is my first post here. Hope you like it.

__
https://flic.kr/p/4784357119


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

*thanx for sharing*

Very cool bike, nice lines. Hope you don't mind that I posted the pic for you, way easier than jumping to another page.:thumbsup: Welcome to the forum.


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## mattytruth (Aug 2, 2006)

Thanks for adding the pic, I couldn't figure it out. Nice Fisher BTW.


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## medieval (Oct 7, 2007)

da'HOOV said:


> I'm not medieval but will this do....?


Nice one 'Hoov.

I have the dark blue version. Unfortunately it's buried in the garage right now. I'll try to dig it out this weekend.


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## Arran (Jan 27, 2006)

Rumpfy said:


> Bad picture of neglected EC bikes.


When are you going to sell that Valkyrie to me, ER?????????


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Shoot, I'd buy that one as well. What a cool bike.


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## emergencyexit (Apr 24, 2009)

da'HOOV said:


> posted before..all I could find right now...they may be weak and flexy, but they are still cool


Hey there da'HOOV,

Do you know what the make on the second bike (black) is? I'm trying to ID my recent craigslist find and yours looks mighty similar. Here's some photos of my bike: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=651125


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

emergencyexit said:


> Hey there da'HOOV,
> 
> Do you know what the make on the second bike (black) is? I'm trying to ID my recent craigslist find and yours looks mighty similar. Here's some photos of my bike: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=651125


It's an English made "Wolber"

look here http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=425942&highlight=wolber


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Arran said:


> When are you going to sell that Valkyrie to me, ER?????????


Long gone I'm afraid. A buddy has it now.


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## rallyrcr (May 5, 2010)

I'm a little late to the elevated chainstay party but.... those trimbles look very similar to something Grove Innovations used to make. anybody remember them?


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## ShiverDC (Mar 6, 2008)

Dont think i saw any rocky replies - 

rocky sirus 

(do hate on me for the low seat and terrible pic... blackberry pic of a bike stuck in the corner of the basement)


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

rallyrcr said:


> I'm a little late to the elevated chainstay party but.... those trimbles look very similar to something Grove Innovations used to make. anybody remember them?


We remember Grove and Trimble. Do some VRC searches...pictures for days. :thumbsup:


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

ShiverDC said:


> (do hate on me for the low seat and terrible pic... blackberry pic of a bike stuck in the corner of the basement)


I'm hating on you for both.


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## ShiverDC (Mar 6, 2008)

Rumpfy said:


> I'm hating on you for both.


fair enough - i'll grab some better pics when i am back on the mainland later this week... no mention of the sideways handlebars or 12$ platforms the previous owner put on though :eekster: ... backburner bike for sure


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## jeffh (Jun 7, 2006)

I've been doing some volunteer work at a non profit helping fix up some donated bikes for people in need.

I had to take a picture of this before it's gifted.

Pro Flex 880 World Cup Design.








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A lot of work went into this fork.








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## H_Tuttle (Feb 27, 2007)

the 2 groves were the woods bike and the X bike

the woods was an elevated bottom bracket design

the X was a single boom tube that kinda looked like a mixte


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

Caffeine Powered said:


> Singlespeed El-stay theme:
> 
> Cinelli had one too back around 1989. I remember selling one. Here's one I see frequently at a local mall. I think the rider works there.
> 
> ...


The Black one is not a Cinelli. This is the Cinelli elevated.
Cinelli NEXT MACHINE, Columbus Max, Campy Euclid gruppo....

RAre as hell, very expensive even here in Italy where vintage handmade bikes are used as change when you buy bread...


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

even said:


> The Black one is not a Cinelli.


Looks like a Mrazek. http://www.mrazek.com/


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## thebronze13 (Jan 10, 2011)

My Rocky Mountain "Experience"


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## geckocycles (Sep 3, 2006)

bushpig said:


> Richard Cunningham was the guy behind the Alien which unleashed the elevated chainstay boom. The MBA protobike was after and became the ultimate. Unsaid by MBA was that their project bike was based on the Gecko Genesis. They compounded the insult by saying the Geneis, which preceded the project bike, looked like the project bike. As between R. Cunningham and K. Beach, I don't know who first developed EC, but I am pretty sure it was one of them.


RC developed the E-Stay Mantis first. 
I had a drawing of the Genesis on his table when the editor of Mountain Bike Action (Zap) came in and saw my drawing and proto and took the liberty of approaching Yeti to build their project bike based on my proto. If you recall then the mag was referred to by many as Yeti Action.
I had been working with RC on design improvements for some time and my prototype was in the shop and was taken by Zap and they did held onto it for over 3 months and did the article "Most Innovative Products of the Year" in 89 and that bike was in that issue.
I had Tange make a special seat tube for the Genesis. I have yet to have had a failure to my knowledge. Most if not all the followers of RC's first designs had failures for they tried to mass produce them without the testing that I did before production and realized their week points. I proto tested the design for over 2 years before final production of the Genesis in 91 begun. About 300 Gecko bikes were produced.
This was the first bike that was produced in 90 and was a proto as well and MBA did their test on. Again this bike made it in "The Most Innovative Products of the Year" issue in 91.








3/4"x .028" chainstays, custom seat tube and 1.25" strut to down tube were the only mods to this bike done in final production.

All Genesis bikes had this unique housing actuated cable pull derailleur designed by me.









The Genesis also had a unique horizontal/vertical dropout design that in a pinch you could move the wheel out of the vertical position and move it forward in case you broke a chain or derailleur and needed a bit of adjustment for a single speed. The brakes still lined up with the rim so no adjustment was needed there. Here are the 2 different designs of those drops.


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## geckocycles (Sep 3, 2006)

This is the bike I still ride today. Built in 98. HT size is to accommodate the Actiontec fork. I am now 240 lbs and have no issues with it and of course trust it with my life,









Cook E cranks, CK f&r hubs w/9 sp, radial 15 front and radial X 3 rear, both with alloy black and purple nips on Mavic 531 rims, CK 1.25" headset, custom made bar and stem, McMahon bb spindle w/ 35 mm cartridge bearings, 747 pedals, XTR ders, McMahon rear brake and XT cantis on the front. Servo wave levers w/integrated shifters (this combo provides with awesome brakes), custom made seat post. The fork is a prototype from RockShocks with 3" travel with air spring, oil damping, Ty kit with top of the line crown.


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## Arran (Jan 27, 2006)

Thanks for the story. Interesting read. Did I detect a hint of resentment in the 'Zap took the design to Yeti' comment???

Here's one that most wouldn't have seen before. It's a '91 Milazo Rock Comp II. I believe they were only distributed in New Zealand. The frame & fork are made of Tange 'MTB' oversized tubing & it still has the original Deore DX groupset. 1 1/4" head tube.


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## felixdelrio (May 27, 2006)

Cool bike, Arran. :thumbsup:


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## geckocycles (Sep 3, 2006)

No, I am not upset with Zap. I think we get along very well. He could of asked me before taking my bike from RC's shop as it was to be delivered to a customer to test on the east coast. I was not ready to produce this bike as it was still in the development stage but his article certainly got me many orders which I had to decline.
What I did resent was that is was compared to the Yeti and that I improved on their design instead of the other way around. No big deal as anyone can tell there was no comparison at all except in geometry. We all look at other designs and hopefully make improvements on or add our own touches. You can clearly see the Mantis influence on my design. Carry strap, integral seat binder, straight fork and internal cable routing on the stem. I owe RC a ton and will be eternally indebted to him. I never liked the idea of using drops that were not designed for the E-Stay bikes. Just looked funky to me and you could still get chain suck and some slap on them. Not truly a E Stay.

Here is a 10" wheel bike that I made for my son. I made 2 of these. They are really trick for a 5 yr old. I worked with Rock Shocks to develop a fork but after much development we decided ther was not enough weight on the front to make a fork work so it was abandoned. CK made a custom front hub for this bike 20 hole with narrow spacing. I couldn't talk him into making a 28 hole coaster brake hub. Custom made 100mm cranks, CK head set, Ty spindle snap ring BB and Ty pivot pins, Alloy 10" hoops with 15g spokes and alloy nips. I custom made the front hub on the first bike I with alloy axle and QR.


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## ranier (Sep 9, 2003)

Browsing the pics to get ideas on my future project. Cool bikes in this thread!


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## X_er (Oct 9, 2009)

*'91 Nishiki Cascade*

As shown in the pics, the Cascade was brought out of storage after almost 20 years (the ex-wife didn't want it back then!) and in excellent condition with no corrosion!! Cycle Pro Motivator 2.1 gumwall tires are original with no cracking on original Araya rims!! The neon paint is excellent with NO fading!! Original Shimano STX derailleurs, along with a Deore crank and low-profile cantis that I installed when it was first brought home from the dealer. The original white leg version SCOTT Unishock fork was also installed at the time, which now needs to be serviced and checked ... they are not compressing freely. The elastomer springs need to be replaced. Also installed at the time of purchase were the cool aluminum Onza bar ends.

My restoration effort was basically cleaning, polishing, and lubing. She rides like a champ! I found an excellent condition RS Mag 21 for a measly $50 on Craig's List that replaced the SCOTT Unishock. And thanks to Ebay, the crank set and shifters/brakes have been all replaced with vintage STX.

This Richard Cunningham designed e-stay frame was especially handsome in the small size. The dimensions and proportions highlighted its compactness . . . much nicer than my e-stay Haro Extreme Comp at the time (which mimicked the Yeti Ultimate).


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## Dog Case (Jul 25, 2008)

I found this at a thrift store. The design is really similar to a Haro Extreme except for the top tube which doesn't have the bend before the seat post. There are no decals besides the brand and model and one on the headtube.
All of the components seem to be original except for the saddle and what I replaced to fix it up (cables, seat tube QR, rear der.). Everything is Shimano Exage 300 LX.

Has anybody heard of Aggressor before? I haven't been able to find anything online. I found it in Bellingham, WA, so I'm thinking it could have been a Canadian brand or something.


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## ranier (Sep 9, 2003)

^^^cool, looks like early 90's based on paint scheme and exage components. Sorry, can't add any more...


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## ranier (Sep 9, 2003)

Just realized I haven't posted my e-stay, so...

Here's mine, a '94 Alpinestars D900 with NOS Noleen Crosslink fork. No original parts (sorry VRC purists), all modern parts hung on a old revived frame.


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## felixdelrio (May 27, 2006)

This is my '93 Alpinestars E900 with matching pc parts. Welcome VRC purists!


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## geckocycles (Sep 3, 2006)

If I may chime in here.
RC was the first to use this design or at least make it popular. He later designed bikes for Nishiki which was probably the first major manufacturer to use it. Others licensed designs from him including the bolt on rear sections and most just stole his work.
IMHO no one did as much engineering on special tube design as I did. For the most part every MFG that used this design including RC did not have the proper tubes engineered to make them stiff and reliable as they should have.
I was working at RC's shop when the first ones were made and saw first hand what was needed. I was consulting with RC and his dad and Mark Grayson and had my drawings on the table when Zap walked in and copied them exactly and decided to build their Ultimate bike off those drawings. I was having an engineer at Raytheon do the analysis of the tubing needed and had Tange make the special tubes for me which took some time to have them deliver them. In the mean time Zap came out with their Ultimate which he took credit for and claimed I copied him. I was not going to produce a bike without the correct tubing as I had built ones and saw the failures in all the expected places well before the MBA bike.
Later I had the first one with the new tubing at RC's shop and Zap showed up and took it while I was skiing and did their article on mine in the Most Innovative Products of the Year issue in 89.
E Bikes have continually gotten a bad rap because all the MFG's used standard tubing in their designs and messed with known working geometry because the design would allow it. There was little reason to shorten the rear as short as most did unless you were making a stand up climbing bike. I have literally a 1" thick folder on the engineering of this bike giving me what every inch long piece of tubing needs to be for riders in 50 lb increments uo to 300 lbs to dead drop 6'. I had engineers put accelerometers on the first protos to aid in this analysis checking. I have yet to have a frame fail and still have one and ride one when I can. 2 yrs after the first one in 89 I decided to soften up the ride with more engineering of the rear end. This did make the bike have more side to side movement which took some getting used to. Cromo is really good at storing energy and giving it back when not applying forces to it. This new proto design was giving to the Wrecking Crew in 91 to test and once again it was in the Most Innovative Products issue. 
This was my first E-Bike that was sold to Pat Hannum and went to MBA.








This is the one that I ride today and was built when I was 160 lbs and survived my stint to 300 lb and to todays weight of 230. It has a proto Rock Shock long travel Ti Mag 21 on it that was made for Steve Boehmke.








I worked with Rock Shock on another fork project trying to design a kids fork for my son's 10" wheel Slickrock Jr. RS ES Bike when they were here in Boulder. The idea was scraped as there is just not enough weight on the front end to make the fork work well enough for the weight penalty of having said it is a FS kids bike.








Slickrock Jr


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## geckocycles (Sep 3, 2006)

I must be getting old. I previously posted most of this info. LOL


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## Fred Smedley (Feb 28, 2006)

geckocycles said:


> I must be getting old. I previously posted most of this info. LOL


Thanks for posting it again. I wonder how this model stacks up in tubing specification. The decal says Tange MTB double butted tubing. It appears to be pretty stout judging by weight.








</a>


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## geckocycles (Sep 3, 2006)

To my knowledge the tubing I had Tange make for me was proprietary to me. I did not sell any to other MFG's not to say that they didn't share the info but I didn't tell Tange was these tubes were for but with a little research I'm sure they could of figured it out or sold other based on specs alone.
The most special tube was the ST. It had a thick wall bottom and that section was very long compared to others. The others were just longer and shorter versions of what they already offered. I used O too thin aircraft for the stays and it took some doing to get them bent which RC did for me on his DiAcro bender.


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## Fred Smedley (Feb 28, 2006)

geckocycles said:


> To my knowledge the tubing I had Tange make for me was proprietary to me. I did not sell any to other MFG's not to say that they didn't share the info but I didn't tell Tange was these tubes were for but with a little research I'm sure they could of figured it out or sold other based on specs alone.
> The most special tube was the ST. It had a thick wall bottom and that section was very long compared to others. The others were just longer and shorter versions of what they already offered. I used O too thin aircraft for the stays and it took some doing to get them bent which RC did for me on his DiAcro bender.


This set is 32mm st squashed at the bottom and 35mm DT-TT. I do not know what the diameters or butting lengths. My spring project is to make it rideable again for curiosity's sake.


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

A lot of early safety bikes used an elevated stay design...I wonder if this is where RC and some of the other guys got there ideas?



















These ones ^ may have small rods or cables going from the bb to the dropout but I know some did not.


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## datawhacker (Dec 23, 2004)

no real new bike ideas since around 1900. Clipless pedals were around then too. 

Seems like e-stays came and went fast, like maybe 89-93?

Was the Kestrel the first e-stay design? Mrazeks are definitely the last.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

geckocycles said:


> RC developed the E-Stay Mantis first.
> I had a drawing of the Genesis on his table when the editor of Mountain Bike Action (Zap) came in and saw my drawing and proto and took the liberty of approaching Yeti to build their project bike based on my proto. If you recall then the mag was referred to by many as Yeti Action.
> I had been working with RC on design improvements for some time and my prototype was in the shop and was taken by Zap and they did held onto it for over 3 months and did the article "Most Innovative Products of the Year" in 89 and that bike was in that issue.
> I had Tange make a special seat tube for the Genesis. I have yet to have had a failure to my knowledge. Most if not all the followers of RC's first designs had failures for they tried to mass produce them without the testing that I did before production and realized their week points. I proto tested the design for over 2 years before final production of the Genesis in 91 begun. About 300 Gecko bikes were produced.
> ...


Wow that blew some dust out of my brain! I totally remember that bike or at least the one in the MBA. I particularly thought the sloped TT was a great idea so you could shoulder the bike, which of course was hard to do on the E-stay bikes. I had/have a mantis XCR-EC and really never thought it was that poor performing or any of the things so many elevated chainstay detractors say. But of course it was hard to measure flex of the frame against grafton cranks, bullseye hubs and noodly handlebars. I mean what was flexing the most? Probably the cranks and the hubs with a little free play.

Thanks for posting those pictures!


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## datawhacker (Dec 23, 2004)

thanks for the history lesson and all the interesting details


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

geckocycles said:


> IMHO no one did as much engineering on special tube design as I did.


Sorry, I'm missing the humble part of that statement. 

Very interesting telling of events though! I'm not takin sides, but it'd be interesting to hear Zap give his account of how it all went down too.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Screw Zap.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

bushpig said:


> Screw Zap.


I'd consider it to get that C-26 out of his possession.


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## stencil (Nov 23, 2012)

I have a '93 Nishiki Alien in purple. Love it, and still commute on it.

A lot like this one but mine has Rock Shox MAG-21s up front:


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## flyingcloud (Jul 7, 2012)

I think Richard Cunningham was possibly the first with the bikes he designed for Nishiki who I worked for at the time. Unfortunately the quality control on those bikes was not always up to Richard's design standards. Nishiki's motto for the Cunningham design bikes was "Engineering That Really Works". My inside joke was "Engineering That Rarely Works". Needless to say I did not work for them forever!

These designs later trickled down to the Haro line of bikes which were also being built by West Coast Cycle (later Raleigh) that owned Nishiki & Haro at the time.


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## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

*I loved mine!*



flyingcloud said:


> I think Richard Cunningham was possibly the first with the bikes he designed for Nishiki who I worked for at the time. Unfortunately the quality control on those bikes was not always up to Richard's design standards. Nishiki's motto for the Cunningham design bikes was "Engineering That Really Works". My inside joke was "Engineering That Rarely Works". Needless to say I did not work for them forever!
> 
> These designs later trickled down to the Haro line of bikes which were also being built by West Coast Cycle (later Raleigh) that owned Nishiki & Haro at the time.


I loved the purple beast! I went through a red one (original) green one and a blue one before all the tubes were aligned. at last it worked great!

Here it is in is glory days on a summer trip to England.

An yokota showed up again on craigslist in San Diego today.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

I made this in 1988, maybe 1989


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## deusexaethera (Apr 18, 2008)

I know someone already mentioned this, but elevated chainstays are still used in some full-suspension designs. This is probably because rear suspension requires more robust tubing, and since the weight penalty has already been imposed, it's also possible to use the e-stay design without the extreme level of optimization Gecko Cycles was trying to achieve. I have a Pro-Flex 756 and a Pro-Flex 857 that used an e-stay design in 1996-97 (respectively), and the Santa Cruz Superlight uses an e-stay design to this day. I figure when my 756 frame finally dies, I'll probably replace it with a Superlight...or maybe a Blur, I dunno.

Gratuitous pic follows:


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## syklystt (Mar 31, 2010)

nice proflex...I rode an 856 for years, best climbing bike i've ever had...Im going to geta k2 4000 frame tonight I hope.
Proflex was a pioneer in FS bikes and patented the true "sweet spot" for pivots on a mountainb ike...IMO.


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## cog223 (May 26, 2006)

I have a 1989 Titan 1/2Trac with e-stays. It's a terrific bike and built like a tank. It's from the pre-suspension days, but it is a good all-day off road rig.


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## Eric Malcolm (Dec 18, 2011)

Hi.

I have an interpretation of the E-stay that I built 2 yrs ago. I live in a part of the world where these bikes really did not make an appearance and came across a picture of one while looking for bike components. The bike was a Mzarek with a Brooks Professional saddle. That image stuck in my mind for a long time and I eventually studied these bikes on the Inter-net. I learned all the failings, the joys and the adventures that the early bikes gave. I drew up my bike as a concept, sketched it as a 3-D drawing, imagined where the forces acted on the frame and looked at tubing specifications that seemed to me to fit the unique requirements from off the shelf manufacturer/suppliers. The BB and seat tube are the key area's I concluded. KB's original design data confirm my thoughts, though I knew nothing of this info when I put my frame together.

I have an interest in older designs and consider how they might look if updated into a modern context, making them look both contemporary and futuristic. I spoke with my riding buddies of my project and was asked if I had ever ridden one, to which I said 'No, I will find out once this Bike is done'. Well, I can say that I never regreted doing this ride. I kept faithful to the original look and wheel size. My ride needs were for a Sunday morning road ride, a weekly commute to work with a long way home ride on single track/gravel. The frame is as stiff as anything out there. Climbs very well, handles as though on rails and is remarkably soft on the saddle in ride terms. I love the fact that when it comes time to clean it down, just how easy it is to get your fingers around everything (no oily chainstays). The wheels swap over real easy and having one bike for everything means I am intimate with all its handling characteristics. The overall bike weighs in at 22lbs, light for single track, heavy for road. My only change to the bike has been to the forks, a lighter more nimble fork has been fitted.

Eric


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Eric Malcolm said:


> Hi.
> 
> I have an interpretation of the E-stay that I built 2 yrs ago. I live in a part of the world where these bikes really did not make an appearance and came across a picture of one while looking for bike components. The bike was a Mzarek with a Brooks Professional saddle. That image stuck in my mind for a long time and I eventually studied these bikes on the Inter-net. I learned all the failings, the joys and the adventures that the early bikes gave. I drew up my bike as a concept, sketched it as a 3-D drawing, imagined where the forces acted on the frame and looked at tubing specifications that seemed to me to fit the unique requirements from off the shelf manufacturer/suppliers. The BB and seat tube are the key area's I concluded. KB's original design data confirm my thoughts, though I knew nothing of this info when I put my frame together.
> 
> ...


Good looking bike. What is that on the back of the seat tube?


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## Eric Malcolm (Dec 18, 2011)

The seat tube feature that I think you refer to is my seat stem clamp. I use a carbon seat stem and wanted to have a 'soft' clamping effect on it rather than squeeze it to death. Split twin bolt arrangement that is symmetrical. I use 2 x 5mm bolts at low torque and it has never moved. I got frustrated with seat stem slippage, and unwittingly having leg cramps that this resulted in as the stem slipped incrementally down over a period of time....


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Eric Malcolm said:


> The seat tube feature that I think you refer to is my seat stem clamp. I use a carbon seat stem and wanted to have a 'soft' clamping effect on it rather than squeeze it to death. Split twin bolt arrangement that is symmetrical. I use 2 x 5mm bolts at low torque and it has never moved. I got frustrated with seat stem slippage, and unwittingly having leg cramps that this resulted in as the stem slipped incrementally down over a period of time....


Ya, would love to see a pic or two.


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## Eric Malcolm (Dec 18, 2011)

[

Try this.

The clamps are folded plate steel, 1.8mm, they are double thickness where the bolts go through.


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## paddyofurniture (Apr 28, 2014)

*Mrazek- not Cinelli*



da'HOOV said:


> That "Cinelli" looks exactly like the Mrazek...who built what? Does anyone know the story?"


Bo Mrazek builds frames in the Vrbno, Czech Republic. The photo noted is of a Mrazek, not a Cinelli. Having never seen the Cinlelli, I would be hard presssed to say if Mrazek built it for Cinelli. I do know that my Mrazek and all the rest were built Boh Mrazek Sr.

Here are some details.
mrazek


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

A few early FS e-stay bikes

1990 Offroad Pro-flex FS with e-stays.








1995 Dual Suspension Bike of the Year from Mountain Biking Mag. I have an 856 (same bike, but a 1996) under my house somewhere, but no pic handy.








My 555. This bike climbs like a billy goat and is a blast on tight twisty forest trails.


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## fjyang (May 4, 2007)

I'll share my elevated bike, Its made by Top Image that I got off ebay a while back and I like it cause its use of oversize aluminum tubing that reminds me of my Cannondal's from the 80's which makes it look apart from other skinny tube elevated frames. Put it together with spare parts I have around, Noleen CrossLink forks, Magura Hydraulic rim brake and Cane Creek seat buster. Not vintage or correct for the die hards but I like it.


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## ameybrook (Sep 9, 2006)

At least you're consistent


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## even (Dec 13, 2010)

Mrazek never built for Cinelli simply because Cinelli used to have their own welders. Their ec bike was the "next machine": Fisher design, Columbus Max, Campy gruppo, circa 1991... see the google search page

https://www.google.com/search?q=cin...XK0QXO5YCwAg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=923


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## Babe Ruthless (Nov 30, 2014)

I'm digging this thread out to mention Caloi in Brazil has a whole line of "cruiser" or "city" bikes based on the same 26"-wheel elevated chainstay frame. Here's a sample.

People convert these to XC bikes sometimes and beat them up until the stays break spectacularly - they all eventually do. :eekster:

BTW I found this thread while looking for info on Mrazek frames and whether they have that same weakness - is that an "el" problem?


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

In 1989 for some reason the image of the Mantis XCR in the pages of MountianBike Action sticks in my brain like crazy glue. I remember not wanting to leave the throne enthralled with the glowing review of the "revolutionary" chain stay design. I wasn't loaded but had just enough to spend a whopping amount to order a 19 inch blue and chrome fork XCR. It came in the mail a month later and built it up with the latest greatest Syncros stuff and headed out to local trails. The second ride I bent the straight blade Tange fork. After another 2 rides and putting another fork on the rear bolt on stays came apart at the seat tube and stripped the hole. What a #$%^@ nightmare! I never believe bike reviews anymore. I did enjoy not having to break my chain to take it off. That was the only feature


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

rismtb said:


> What a #$%^@ nightmare! I never believe bike reviews anymore. I did enjoy not having to break my chain to take it off. That was the only feature


That's some tough luck right there. Masde worse by the fact that you saved to build your dream bike which fell apart after a few months.

The magazine review thing though, they only test how the bike rides and never get to test whether the thing falls apart after their 2 week test period. Which is a shame, because we all like to keep our bikes for more than 3 months.

I always thought about the chain breaking thing, by the time you got the derailleur apart to take the chain out, it would be just as easy to break the chain, wouldn't it? Or am I missing something (as usual)?

Grumps


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

With the elevated stays the chain doesn't run thru the frame. just undo 1 jockey wheel and the chain comes right off in one piece ya that part was sweet for cleaning the links


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

You still have to fish it out of the front derailleur.


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

rismtb said:


> With the elevated stays the chain doesn't run thru the frame. just undo 1 jockey wheel and the chain comes right off in one piece ya that part was sweet for cleaning the links


I realise the chain doesn't run through the frame (I have an AlpineStars as well as 2 Santa Cruz Superlights and a Bullit) but it was the bit about pulling the derailleur to bits. If it's simply one jockey wheel then swing the cage open, then all good, except...



jeff said:


> You still have to fish it out of the front derailleur.


5 seconds with a phillips head, but wrestling it past the chainrings could be a PITA.

Meh, joiner links FTW. 

Grumps


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

yes its coming back to me now, the front thread thing. Still better than breaking the chain. I didn't have the bike long so I only did it couple of times.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

I believe the first elevated chain stay bike was a project bike that MBA had Yeti build for them back in 1987/88. Richard Cunningham of Mantis soon followed with the XCR, then shortly after he designed the Nishiki Alien.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

Uncle Grumpy said:


> I always thought about the chain breaking thing, by the time you got the derailleur apart to take the chain out, it would be just as easy to break the chain, wouldn't it? Or am I missing something (as usual)?
> 
> Grumps


Back then if a Shimano chain didn't explode by itself you sure didn't want to mess with a good thing. That was about the only good thing about elevated bikes. Then again you had to take the chain off every 8-12 months anyways to warranty the broken frame.


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## Taiv (May 30, 2015)

*Malvern Star Pro-tech 500M*

Anyone know more about the Malvern Star Pro-tech 500M elevated chainstay bike?


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## Uncle Grumpy (Oct 20, 2005)

Taiv said:


> Anyone know more about the Malvern Star Pro-tech 500M elevated chainstay bike?


What did you want to know?

They were made in the far east and distributed by Malvern Star in the early 90s. Low end parts on a not-particularly-great frame.

That said, growing up in Australia in the 70s, 80s or 90s, you weren't a true Aussie without a Malvern Star or a Repco of some sort.

Grumps


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## Wissahickon (Feb 9, 2015)

*My e-stay bikes*















Cannondale se2000
Nishiki Alienn
:thumbsup:


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## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

Like that Alien!


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## eating_trifles (Apr 17, 2011)

1990 Overbury's Pioneer.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

eating_trifles said:


> 1990 Overbury's Pioneer.


Great pictures!


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## gibihm (Oct 28, 2011)

JokerW said:


> No pictures of a Brave with only a single elevated chainstay?
> I remember seeing those around once in awhile back in '89-'91.


I´ve got one... just building it up.


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## SMRTIN (Dec 17, 2012)

This is sort of interesting... Apparently Doug B built this bike in May of 1987 (also reflected in his serial number log book)


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Post the 'now' pic of that bike.


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## SMRTIN (Dec 17, 2012)

As requested


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Shitfire. Nice picture! Awesome bike! Does it do wheelies?!!


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## SMRTIN (Dec 17, 2012)

Not sure about this bike's wheelie prowess... I can only say that the Merlin can be a handful!


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

SMRTIN said:


> I can only say that the Merlin can be a handful!


It's the fault of the brakes.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Did you polish through any of the tubes? I like the red Turbo/red toe-strap combo on the '87 pic.


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## gibihm (Oct 28, 2011)




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## Funrover (Oct 4, 2006)

Love the Estay! I still ride my Alpinestar Cro mega, love that bike, it climbs like a champ. I have owned (and now miss) Pro flex bikes in the past. Wish I could keep them all!


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## demondan (Jul 25, 2008)

Richard sent me a prototype Alien in 1988 after I broke my Mantis XCR non E stay. I really liked the alien and soon broke it while in NorCal. Lucky for me I used to work at Velo club bike shop in San Carlos and the owner fixed it for me. It broke in a few more spots but by then my XCR was fixed and my new e stay Valkyrie made it to me. I think people would be wise to listen to Ken on the so cal scene history. Zap had his own agenda to be sure. Thanks to Richard and Eddie for making Mantis bikes! 

Kinda cool the e stay is back with Salsa and truck making plus size bikes now. bike design always cycles around and around


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## Jet Black (Jul 11, 2016)

I seem to remember reading old issues of Mountain Bike Action and other mags from the '90s saying that elevated stays made for better climbing. Not sure if true, but my 1992 Cirrus was a beast on hills back in the day, but that could have been as much me being 20 years younger as the bike being better 

Still riding my first, although she's setup as a commuter right now. I have taken her on some trails and it's still a blast to ride (though the old Rock Shox can't hold a candle to modern forks).


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## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

*New puppy*

I loved my aliens - broke 3  
Here is my new craigslist find
View attachment 1135472


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## bikefx (Apr 20, 2009)

Weinerts said:


> I loved my aliens - broke 3
> Here is my new craigslist find
> View attachment 1135472
> View attachment 1135471


AH! The 15.5" chainstay wonder!!! 
Possibly the shortest chainstays ever on an adult MTB.


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## geckocycles (Sep 3, 2006)

*Saying goodbye to my last Genesis.*

This was a replacement frame for my X wife made in 95. Her bike met a sad end in a roof mounted bikes and garage meetup. Top of door hit seatpost. Bent IRD seatpost, top of TT at HT, Fork steerer and HT. So weird. I would of thought the fork would of ripped out of the fork mount before all this damage.
Ripped the HT clean off my son's Slickrock Jr. His bike was replaced completely. Tig bikes break and brazed will bend. Can't tell you how many times I have seen this.








Finally decided to get rid of it to a guy in Germany. Not sure why I gave it away for only $600. This was the last of 2 Genesis's and 1 Y Bike I made in a short run while at Lennard Zinn's shop.


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## atomicfab (Aug 25, 2018)

i need to post a pic of my redline elevated,,,, havent seen one mentioned yet


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## britrocco (May 27, 2019)

used to race a nishiki barabrian in late 80's, early 90's broke the frame and they replaced it with convetional chainstay bike. still miss that bike


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## RFAK (Dec 9, 2011)

britrocco said:


> used to race a nishiki barabrian in late 80's, early 90's broke the frame and they replaced it with convetional chainstay bike. still miss that bike
> 
> View attachment 1253415


Did you race it in my living room?
That is where that picture was taken.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

britrocco said:


> used to race a nishiki barabrian in late 80's, early 90's broke the frame and they replaced it with convetional chainstay bike. still miss that bike
> 
> View attachment 1253415


There is one of these that someone locks to the fence at Pike Market in Seattle, where the street goes down to the gum wall/post alley. Next time I walk by I will snap a photo for you.


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## geckocycles (Sep 3, 2006)

This was my last Genesis I made in 95 or 98? I sold the frame only, unpainted with the last sticker set I had. He did a awesome job of painting and assembling and had a local builder make the fork. The stem he got for a song from a guy who could not somehow figure out a bar to fit.??????????? 
They airbrushed the black on instead of smoke but did a GREAT job.
Thanks Felix for a job well done, I couldn't have done it better!


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## Squeeze (Apr 14, 2015)

Spotted on craigslist today:

1991 Gary Fisher Montare commuter -- M/L - $300


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## julijulio (Aug 14, 2020)

Just finished restoration of my unknown elevated chainstay, is there anyone who got same frame as i am? i need more information for naming my bike


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## BrightDot (Jun 9, 2020)

fjyang said:


> I'll share my elevated bike, Its made by Top Image that I got off ebay a while back and I like it cause its use of oversize aluminum tubing that reminds me of my Cannondal's from the 80's which makes it look apart from other skinny tube elevated frames. Put it together with spare parts I have around, Noleen CrossLink forks, Magura Hydraulic rim brake and Cane Creek seat buster. Not vintage or correct for the die hards but I like it.


Fantastic build on the Top Image. Just curious...what's the frame size, c-c and c-t?


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## Nick_M (Jan 16, 2015)

E-stay probably tho only thing that appeals in Orange bikes;


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## Proto20000 (Jan 19, 2021)

I have had this Brave Warrior for years and only rode it a few times, good thing. It was repainted before the original owner took it for a ride, he didn't like the screaming colors they offered at the time so its a "nice green" now. Long story short is that it is a TET bike that was rode hard and put away wet, literally. It has a dent on the top tube but I can live with that. After spending hours getting it ready to ride I notice a line above the chainstay/seat tube cluster. Yes, it is cracked all the way around. Question is: Is it worth spending the money to have the repairs made and repaint or just hang it on a wall?


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## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

Almost all original!!
This is almost the same bike I rode and broke in college!! 
No that I am 30 years older I am sure it will be stronger than me.
I can't wait to clean it and put some knobs on it.


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