# XS 27.5 Frame Options



## GTChE (Feb 14, 2018)

My 11 year old daughter is outgrowing her 24" Orbea and I am looking at building her next bike. She is 4'9" but I am expecting a growth spurt in the next few months. She is racing NICA this year so I am looking for something more XC focused. She is still a beginner doing mostly greens and blues.

She did a parking lot ride on a Spec Pitch and it seemed to fit pretty well. The stack seemed really high though. I am also looking at a Trek Xcaliber and a Trailcraft Big Mesa (27.5 build) as I can get both as frame only. 

Looking at the geo numbers the Trailcraft has a much lower stack according to a third party website (Trailcraft does not list the stack or reach on their site) compared to the other 2. 461mm vs 560mm. The stack on her current Orbea is 500mm. This is the most confounding issue for me. Is the Trailcraft low or are the others high?

The eff TT on the Pitch and XCal are both around 540 while the Trailcraft is 525. She did not look to stretched out on the Pitch but it was only a parking lot test. 

There is a larger size of the Trailcraft that has a 560 top tube and 529 stack. Is the 560 TT going to be too long?

The Trailcraft is the most expensive at 699, the Trek is 599 and I can get the Pitch for 400 (complete bike). The only big downside to the Pitch is that it has a straight steerer so finding a decent fork (42mm offset) will be challenging and would not be able to move to the next bike. 

I have a spreadsheet with all the main players and these seemed like the best choices (my daughter really wants the orbea alma carbon but $1500 for the frame is not in the budget at this point). Are there other good options I should be looking at?

I am not in a rush but I figure this process could take a few months. Thanks for the help.


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## GTChE (Feb 14, 2018)

Any advice would appreciated.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

GTChE said:


> Any advice would appreciated.


Someone else mentioned the Ladies Canyon Neuron for 1899. Fairly light and comes in XS. Pretty decent component spec for that price too.


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## stm32disco (Jun 7, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Soul 10 is 27.5, comes in XS, 11-42 8 speed 1x drive train. It's $729 CAD, so probably $600ish USD.

I have a daughter the same age and size and she loves it.


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## GTChE (Feb 14, 2018)

svinyard said:


> Someone else mentioned the Ladies Canyon Neuron for 1899. Fairly light and comes in XS. Pretty decent component spec for that price too.


That Canyon is pretty nice, but I am looking for a hardtail at the moment.


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## GTChE (Feb 14, 2018)

stm32disco said:


> Rocky Mountain Soul 10 is 27.5, comes in XS, 11-42 8 speed 1x drive train. It's $729 CAD, so probably $600ish USD.
> 
> I have a daughter the same age and size and she loves it.


I had not looked at the Soul yet. It looks like a real good option. The stack on the soul is 600mm, which is the highest of all the bikes so far. It sounds like it is not an issue for you. Am I making too much of this one measurement?


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

My older kid is 4'8" and prefers a Sm Salsa Timberjack 29 over the Xs 27.5 she sampled. Our main run is black down to green.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

I hate when people don't answer the question posted, but that's exactly what I'm going to do here... so sorry...

My daughter is 4'8" currently and fits really perfect on her xs 27.5 at the moment. She can also pedal around on my wife's small niner rip 9 quite comfortably, so I would be looking at a small or xs 29er if we were getting a new bike today. I'd really look at a small Ibis DV9 frame for her. She'd be sitting on the top tube with her feet flat at that height but could totally ride it comfortably for quite a while. At $999 msrp, its quite a bit less than a Pivot Les or Niner Air 9 rdo that give NICA discounts.

If you are really set on a set on an Xs 27.5, look for a Pivot Les 27.5, Trek Procaliber, Canyon Exceed, or a Norco Revolver. You'll have to look on the used market for the last two as they changed up their sizing for this model year. There's a couple chiner 27.5 frames out there for less than $500 that could work for you as well. 

Happy hunting! Let us know what you come up with!


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## CascadiaPNW (Jun 2, 2019)

Marin offers their Bobcat and Wildcat (women-specific) hardtail bikes in XS. 

OP has said that they aren't looking for a FS bike. But just for the purposes of anyone finding this thread in the future when looking for XS 27.5 options, it's worth noting that Marin offers the Hawk Hill in an XS size.


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## GTChE (Feb 14, 2018)

Thanks for the input guys. She is not the most powerful rider so I am really hesitant to jump to a 29er. I can get a pretty good discount through Trek so I am looking pretty hard at the Procaliber. I am waiting for the 2020’s as she does not like the color of the 2019’s. I am also scouring the used market but these bikes are hard to find. 

That Ibis is definitely a good deal. I can’t believe Pivot wants that much for the Les. The wife caught wind of how much I was thinking of spending and is reigning me in unfortunately. Luckily I have some time to keep looking.

Also I contacted Trailcraft and my stack numbers where way off. Their stack was right in line with everyone else.


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

I'm in a similar situation. Closing in on the next bike for my twin girls who also do some racing. I ruined them last year by taking them up a chair lift. Now they complain about pedaling much of anything. I also arrived at the Trek & the Trailcraft. Many of the aforementioned bikes are pretty heavy for any sort of racing. I'm inclined to buy a pair of Trailcraft bikes and just put slightly more burly tires on them. Curious what direction you go.

P. S. I agree with you about a 29er for a young girl who's racing. I think it would make things more challenging. Which is the opposite of what you want.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I think OP is on the right path but just wanted to say that riders under about 5'6" shouldn't be on 29ers unless they are very strong or are racing XC at a high level on smooth trails. 
Just because 29 ers are faster for the average 5' 11" male mountain bike reviewer, does not make them the correct choice for a 5' child or woman.
Good luck. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## GTChE (Feb 14, 2018)

So I went and talked with a a fellow dad who works at a bike shop. He has a daughter the same height as mine but one year younger (she is a stronger rider than my daughter). I really respect his opinion. He was really pushing us to an XS 29er rockhopper. My daughter test road both the Rockhopper and an XS 27.5 Pitch. It was just a parking lot ride but there was a grass hill she could climb. My daughter really liked the 29er better. When I asked why she said it was smoother in the grass. It did fit her well and she did not seem to have any issues with the bigger wheels. I am definitely confused and conflicted at this point. The Rockhopper is about $600 cheaper than the Trailcraft. I have a spare XTR drivetrain that I am throwing on what ever I choose. For the price difference I could also get a set of Crest wheels and really lighten it up. 

He could just be trying to sell me a bike, but I don’t really think so. He knew I was looking at $2000 bikes and did not push me to the more expensive Chisel (actually discouraged it).


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Yes, on smooth constant speed terrain, bigger tires are going to always be better. Does that describe your trails?
The additional inertia of a 29" wheel sure is a hindrance for a 100# female, on terrain that requires lots of acceleration & maneuvering. 
Physics doesn't lie. Ever put larger wheels/ tires on a truck and felt what it does to your acceleration?
Also, it's hard to get enough stand over, and keep the front tire from touching the riders foot when turning on an XS 29er. The bikes usually don't fit really well.
Good luck. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## GTChE (Feb 14, 2018)

We are in Northeast TN and our trails and the NICA courses will be pretty smooth. When we go to Brevard we ride DuPont and not Pisgah. I completely agree with the acceleration issues of the larger wheel and a small 90 lbs girl (that is my main concern). My counter point would be the larger wheel will help hold speed better so the need to accelerate is less. I do not know this, just applying the same logic to both sides of the argument (I am an engineer so I do understand the physics of it). 

I also realize that I completely discounted the idea of a 29er from other posters earlier. I definitely had some conformational bias going. There are kids at practice that are on 29ers and 27.5+ that seem to do fine. That being said they are boys and my daughter is smaller than most of them. I wish we could demo both to really know.

I do appreciate all the advice by everyone so far.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

My 4'9" 10 year old has no issues climbing on her SMALL 29er.

If your kid/wife/gf/short dude has issues climbing a 29er, get better tires and maybe lighter wheels.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

ilmfat said:


> My 4'9" 10 year old has no issues climbing on her SMALL 29er.
> 
> If your kid/wife/gf/short dude has issues climbing a 29er, get better tires and maybe lighter wheels.


Or better yet, get 38" wheels for grown men to keep it proportional!

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Enjoy your riding.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/epic-hardtail/p/171127?color=264116-171127

New Epics and Sworks epics have a xs (13.5ish) frame again for this year. 750gram $2500 frame only option for those that need that. The epic is around 900g for the frame.


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

MXIV424 said:


> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/epic-hardtail/p/171127?color=264116-171127
> 
> New Epics and Sworks epics have a xs (13.5ish) frame again for this year. 750gram $2500 frame only option for those that need that. The epic is around 900g for the frame.


That looks like a great option. I wish the XS size came with 27.5 wheels, though, like the Treks, Pivots, and Norcos do.

My son is on a NICA team and still on a 24" bike. He is small, about 4'7", and the 24" still fits him okay, but he could probably move up to an XS bike with bigger wheels. I think a 27.5 would be ideal, but I see middle school kids on 29ers doing just fine.

Anyone know how much those wheels weigh on the Epic Hardtail? That might be the one thing I'd want to swap for something lighter. I suspect the Eagle SX drivetrain will work fine for a kid, and the Judy gold fork should be fine too.


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## thecreeper23 (Jun 28, 2013)

If anyone is currently looking for a small frame for their kid, I came across this yesterday. Not my auction, obviously, but looks like a sweet deal on a Trailcraft frame from the company itself due to a cosmetic blemish.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trailcraft...618640?hash=item3651621dd0:g:D9QAAOSw4e1dKjcn

If your pockets are deeper and you have a kid who needs a 24-inch wheel, they have a Maxwell frame as well:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trailcraft...962770?hash=item3651399752:g:JMIAAOSwm3ldMRxh



jabrabu said:


> I suspect the Eagle SX drivetrain will work fine for a kid, and the Judy gold fork should be fine too.


One other thought--it appears the SRAM SX line doesn't include the short 155mm crank arm length like the NX line did. Smallest SX crank arm appears to be 165mm.


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

jabrabu said:


> That looks like a great option. I wish the XS size came with 27.5 wheels, though, like the Treks, Pivots, and Norcos do.


Nothing to say you couldn't try pairing the 29er frame with a 27.5 wheelset... BB will be lower, but likely still higher than what your son may be used to on a 24".


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

TimTucker said:


> Nothing to say you couldn't try pairing the 29er frame with a 27.5 wheelset... BB will be lower, but likely still higher than what your son may be used to on a 24".


Last week one of the fast kids at the races rode by on what appeared to be a new epic frame and it looked like he had 27.5 on. I'll try to get a closer look in the next couple weeks.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Here:

__
http://instagr.am/p/B01Lvyslq2O/


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## GTChE (Feb 14, 2018)

Quick update, we have finally made a decision and ordered a SCOTT Contessa Scale 10. After talking with her coaches they were pretty adamant that 27.5 would be best for my daughter who is not a super strong rider yet. Scott also gives a decent NICA discount. It should be here Friday. I am going to upgrade the wheels as I don’t think they are tubeless ready, this was the only real downside to the bike. I am also trying to figure what to do with the cranks. I would like to do some 152 Trailcraft cranks but I am not sure if they will work with the bottom bracket spacing. The back up plan is a 165 sram GX. Are there other 155 crank options? It is a BSA DUB bottom bracket.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

GTChE said:


> Quick update, we have finally made a decision and ordered a SCOTT Contessa Scale 10. After talking with her coaches they were pretty adamant that 27.5 would be best for my daughter who is not a super strong rider yet. Scott also gives a decent NICA discount. It should be here Friday. I am going to upgrade the wheels as I don't think they are tubeless ready, this was the only real downside to the bike. I am also trying to figure what to do with the cranks. I would like to do some 152 Trailcraft cranks but I am not sure if they will work with the bottom bracket spacing. The back up plan is a 165 sram GX. Are there other 155 crank options? It is a BSA DUB bottom bracket.


SRAM makes 155mm dub cranks. We had a set come on our Commencal Clash 24". Not sure how to get them aftermarket but its probable.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

GTChE said:


> Quick update, we have finally made a decision and ordered a SCOTT Contessa Scale 10. After talking with her coaches they were pretty adamant that 27.5 would be best for my daughter who is not a super strong rider yet. Scott also gives a decent NICA discount. It should be here Friday. I am going to upgrade the wheels as I don't think they are tubeless ready, this was the only real downside to the bike. I am also trying to figure what to do with the cranks. I would like to do some 152 Trailcraft cranks but I am not sure if they will work with the bottom bracket spacing. The back up plan is a 165 sram GX. Are there other 155 crank options? It is a BSA DUB bottom bracket.


Good for you!

The BSA is a standard BB shell. The trailcraft cranks come with a BB that will fit the BSA shell.

Why do you want to change the cranks? How long are they?

You can convert the wheel set tubeless no problem, but you would probably save some good weight being selective about a new wheelset. I'd change out the tires as well, but other than that let her rip that thing!


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## GTChE (Feb 14, 2018)

MXIV424 said:


> Good for you!
> 
> The BSA is a standard BB shell. The trailcraft cranks come with a BB that will fit the BSA shell.
> 
> ...


I emailed Trailcraft and they were not sure for some reason. They may have thought I was wanting to use the DUB BB though. I am not sure how long the cranks are yet but I am assuming 170 as that is what most of them are. If they are 165 I will let her try them out first, but I think 155 is what she needs (she is a sit and spin type rider).

The shop said the wheels were not tubeless compatible but he is going to check when it comes in. I have a line on a used set of Crests so I am not too worried. Plus the weight savings will be significant.


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

TimTucker said:


> Nothing to say you couldn't try pairing the 29er frame with a 27.5 wheelset... BB will be lower, but likely still higher than what your son may be used to on a 24".


I thought about that, but I'd be concerned about getting more pedal strikes with the lower BB. Some shorter cranks could offset this a little, but maybe not enough. We have some rocky terrain around here so pedal strikes are a concern.


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

jabrabu said:


> I thought about that, but I'd be concerned about getting more pedal strikes with the lower BB. Some shorter cranks could offset this a little, but maybe not enough. We have some rocky terrain around here so pedal strikes are a concern.


I think you have less to worry about than you might think -- pedal clearance for the frame with 27.5" wheels and 152mm cranks looks pretty much the same as what it's designed for (29" wheels with 170mm cranks).

Here's some quick comparisons (results will likely vary a little depending on fork length & tire size):

Specialized Epic XS stock:

Wheel size: 29"
Tire diameter: 368mm
BB Drop: 63mm
Crank to ground (170mm): 135mm

Specialized Epic XS w/ 27.5" wheels:

Wheel size: 27.5"
Tire diameter: 349mm
BB Drop: 63mm
Crank to ground (152mm): 134mm
Crank to ground (140mm): 146mm

Specialized Epic XS w/ 26" wheels:

Wheel size: 26"
Tire diameter: 330mm
BB Drop: 63mm
Crank to ground (140mm): 127mm
Crank to ground (127mm): 140mm

Vitus Nucleus 26:

Wheel size: 26"
Tire diameter: 330mm
BB Drop: 40mm
Crank to ground (160mm): 130mm

Vitus Nucleus 24:

Wheel size: 24"
Tire diameter: 305mm
BB Drop: 45mm
Crank to ground (140mm): 120mm


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

I wouldn't be concerned about pedal strikes as much as rider fatigue. Scott Contessa is on my radar as well.


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## airwreck (Dec 31, 2003)

GTChE said:


> Are there other 155 crank options? It is a BSA DUB bottom bracket.


Suntour Zeron 152 and 160 lengths.


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## GTChE (Feb 14, 2018)

Just wanted to give an update. I finally got the Scott Contessa Scale 10 done with all the upgrades. Stock it weighed a respectable 27.5 lbs with pedals for an XS. I changed the wheels to some Crests with fast track 2.2 tires, replaced the crank and BB with a Trailcraft 152mm, replaced the drivetrain with an 11spd XTR (XT cassette) added a carbon bar and ESI grips and removed the twin lock. With deore pedals and bottle cage it is 23.75 lbs. I am pretty happy with how light it came out. 

With the NICA discount this bike is a steal in my opinion. Unfortunately Scout has discontinued this bike for 2020 in a 27.5er so you better act quick if you want one. There is nothing remotely close to this bike in their lineup now.


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## GTChE (Feb 14, 2018)




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## xprmntl (Oct 4, 2006)

Cube Reaction Pro (and lower models) 27.5 comes in a 14" frame with nice parts for under $800. Only real downside to this is the 27.2 mm seat tube and the older 100/135 mm hubs w/ QR. Chainreactioncycles.com is selling the 2019 models for a discount.


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## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

Stumbled upon this thread while I was scouting for an XS 27.5 hardtail for my 10yo son -

Here my top choices, in case anyone is interested;

https://www.canyon.com/it-it/mounta...wmn/2620.html?dwvar_2620_pv_rahmenfarbe=WH/MC

https://www.cube.eu/it/2021/bikes/k...kie/cube-reaction-c62-rookie-carbonnbluenred/

https://www.islabikes.co.uk/products/creig-27?variant=35848834089118


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

We ended up getting a Scott Scale Pro 700 frame from the Junior Pro series - which is now non existent - and moving her parts over. Gonna go full Shimano drivetrain and move this stuff to another bike.

Bummer is by the time I pulled the trigger and shipping time for the frame she grew again and I could easily get her on a xs or small 29. I still think the 27.5 is the best option for kids under 5'4 or so due to bike handling feel, but the dad-you're gonna outgrow this so let's get the most out of it-put them on the bike you think they'll grow into- part of me thinks the 29 might have been a better call.


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## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

Great bike! can you share some datails about the wheels? they look gorgeous 

My kid is moving from a 24" therefore I think an XS 27.5 will be the right choice even if it's limited to 2 or 3 years of use. 
Besides that, we will be doing a few races for fun (Covid permitting) and in our youth series kids under 13 are not allowed to race a 29er


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

Ausable said:


> Besides that, we will be doing a few races for fun (Covid permitting) and in our youth series kids under 13 are not allowed to race a 29er


Surprised that it's an age-based rule vs. a height-based one -- some kids can be huge at 13.

If 29" wheels are out, do they also ban 27.5+ / 26x5 or other options that have a similar outer diameter? Alternately, are 36ers OK?


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Ausable said:


> Great bike! can you share some datails about the wheels? they look gorgeous
> 
> My kid is moving from a 24" therefore I think an XS 27.5 will be the right choice even if it's limited to 2 or 3 years of use.
> Besides that, we will be doing a few races for fun (Covid permitting) and in our youth series kids under 13 are not allowed to race a 29er


Thanks. Rims are Elite carbon with their rainbow logo, 3k weave and gloss finish, Dt 350 cl hubs 36t, and pillar 1420 spokes with aluminum nipples. Right around 1300g if I remember right. The gloss adds a bit of weight but was the look we were going for.

I think 27.5 is a great choice for kids. A friend who's 13 on a 29er jumped on this bike and though she doesn't look small for her bike, she just looked better on this one.


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## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

@TimTucker yes it's a somewhat silly rule but it is the easist to control at the race registration booth (remeber those ). Just check the licence and you are ready to go.

@MXIV424 thanks for the wheels details. Yes XS 27.5 are a good transition from 24ers, or better than going from 24 to 26 to 29ers in my opinion. The only downside is that lightweight components are harder to find. 

I went with the Cube c:62 rookie, the specs are decent for the price with a few glaring mistakes: 

1)Quick release fork and boost rear end - talk about mixing old and new school! 

2) heavy AM wheels, I will be able to source a custom made wheelset based on ZTR podium MMX rims for a great price. 

3) 170mm crankset, way too long . Cannot find a Sram 160mm, will try to get a trailcraft (and also switch BB) or get a 165mm NX Dub


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## nwa bike dad (Apr 21, 2018)

Ausable said:


> @TimTucker yes it's a somewhat silly rule but it is the easist to control at the race registration booth (remeber those ). Just check the licence and you are ready to go.
> 
> @MXIV424 thanks for the wheels details. Yes XS 27.5 are a good transition from 24ers, or better than going from 24 to 26 to 29ers in my opinion. The only downside is that lightweight components are harder to find.
> 
> ...


The transition from 24" to the next size up was the most complicated for sure. The cost to get reasonable weight, good components, xs frame was difficult.

We reserved the Norco Sight Youth, but changed our minds. The 63 HTA and 34 lbs caused us to feel it was a little too 1 dimensional. It is a great little bike tho. We ended up going with Pivot. Great bike, not cheap. we bought used off of Pinkbike.

We looked at the YT and probably would have gone that way if the 26" was as nice as the 24". Great kids bikes out there.


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