# Wheel building and truing



## northland (Jun 4, 2011)

I downloaded Gerd Schraners - the art of wheelbuilding, but find it to be lacking. Any recommendations for other wheelbuilding books?

I've read through the thread linked below, and theres lots of good links in there. I'm just wondering if anyone else has book recommendations. I don't like reading off of computers, I'd prefer to buy a book.

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/wheelbuilding-resources-517093.html

Also, what do you do in this situation?

I have a wheel that has a big lateral misalignment issue. At one point in the wheel, the rim scrapes on the left indicator for the length of 6 spokes. I have loosed the spokes going to the left side of the hub, and tightened the right ones to get the rim to pull over, but it hasn't moved at all, and its to the point now where the spokes are so loose on the left side, and so tight on the right side, that its obviously not properly tensioned and it is out of whack.

Is it sometimes necessary to just loosen of all the spokes and start retensioning as if you're building a new wheel? Or does this seem like a case where the rim is no deformed and needs replacement? This is all new to me, I'm hoping some seasoned wheelbuilders can shed some light on this

Thanks


----------



## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

It sounds like the rim is shot and should be replaced.


----------



## Birdman (Dec 31, 2003)

Zinn and the art of MTB maintenance has a very good basic wheelbuilding section.

Regarding your rim, when making adjustments to bring a wheel back into true, adjust spoke tension then remove it from the truing stand and stress relieve the spokes, as follows. 

Place the wheel on the floor, rim parallel to the floor (hub on the ground), place your hands at 3 and 9 oclock and press down on the rim. Rotate your hand positions on the rim by 30° and press down again, etc. etc. Flip the wheel over and repeat above process.

You'll hear and feel the spokes settling.

Return to the truing stand and repeat the truing process. If stress relieving doesn't help the spokes settle into position, the rim is probably bent beyond repair.

JMJ


----------



## wsmac (Sep 5, 2010)

How old is this wheel?
Are the nipples and spokes clean... meaning, corrosion/rust free?
Just something to keep in mind... sometimes when you think you're turning a nipple on a wheel with "old" nipples/spokes... they are stuck to each other so well, you are actually twisting the spoke.

You'll know when your spokes loosen, but tightening them is not always so apparent unless you feel the spoke while turning the nipple.
With a 'frozen' spoke, you will feel it twist in your fingers while you turn the nipple with the other hand and wrench.

Not sure this is necessarily part of your issue, just something you should be aware of.

Depending on what this particular wheel means to you, you might do well taking it apart, checking the rim on a large-enough flat surface, then putting it all back together again if it's in good shape.
Again, age and condition are important here... reusing old spokes and nipples isn't always a good idea.
Can you afford to take it down to pieces then put it back together and possibly not get it right for a while?
Can you afford to replace broken spokes and nipples if something happens during disassembly/reassembly?
Do you have a spare wheel to ride in the meantime?

Then again... it might be cheaper and quicker to drop it off at your LBS and have them true it up.

eta: The very first wheel I laced up didn't work out so well. I wasn't sure why. I took it in to a shop I was friendly with and knew the mech's there. When I went back to pick up the wheel, I asked about my initial set-up. The guy who did my wheel was able to take the time to discuss it a little with me... basically telling me I hadn't even tensioned the spokes enough. I was worried about tightening them too much and didn't have a tensiometer.
I believe that since I had purchased my spokes and nipples from them, had a prior relationship with them, and approached them in the 'right' way (whatever that was ), I wound up with some valuable advice and a wheel I could trust.


----------



## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Birdman said:


> Place the wheel on the floor, rim parallel to the floor (hub on the ground), place your hands at 3 and 9 oclock and press down on the rim. Rotate your hand positions on the rim by 30° and press down again, etc. etc. Flip the wheel over and repeat above process.


That's putting a lot more stress on the rim than necessary. Just take an old screwdriver and press the handle of it down hard into "v" formed by the spokes crossing and twist it a bit side to side.


----------



## Mike T. (Dec 30, 2003)

I own all wheelbuilding resources that I know of. Roger Musson's downloadable e-book is the best IMO. If you don't like reading it on the computer, print it off and have it spiral-bound at Staples, or some other print place, like I did.

The worst wheelbuilng resource, again IMO, is Schraner's.


----------



## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> I own all wheelbuilding resources that I know of. Roger Musson's downloadable e-book is the best IMO. If you don't like reading it on the computer, print it off and have it spiral-bound at Staples, or some other print place, like I did.
> 
> The worst wheelbuilng resource, again IMO, is Schraner's.


Roger Musson's book is the best.


----------



## Mike T. (Dec 30, 2003)

thickfog said:


> Roger Musson's book is the best.


And if Roger comes up with some better info, he updates the download and gives everyone a free copy. Try *that* with a hardcopy book.


----------



## northland (Jun 4, 2011)

Thanks for all the replys.

Schraners book is so old fashioned, even though it was published in 1999. It reads as if it was from the 70's, just out of touch with the times.

The wheel is a roval control 29er, It came with a used bike I bought, and the wheel was out of true when I bought it. I kind of feel like just loosening everything off, and retruing it from there.


----------



## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Wouldn't be a bad idea to disassemble the wheel completely. 1, it's good practice and knowledge to have, and 2, it will allow you to properly check the rim and the hub for any damage. You can't tell if a rim is wonky without actually taking it out of the rim, though if you are having the problem you are describing, it is likely that the rim is bent.


----------



## Birdman (Dec 31, 2003)

bad mechanic said:


> That's putting a lot more stress on the rim than necessary.


Depends on how hard you press. I've seen wheelbuilders who have a table that supports the rim with a large hole in it that clears the spokes. They then come down with an arbor press and push down on the hub to stress relive all the spokes simultaneously (the inverse of the technique I described). Flip the wheel and press again, then back on the truing stand.

I've built a few wheels using this stress relieving technique and have not had to touch them with a spoke wrench since. These are rim-brake wheels, so I'd know if they'd be out of true.

Ditto the advice above regarding disassembling, cleaning/lubing, and rebuilding the wheel. Also lets you know if the rim is bent in the "free" state.

JMJ


----------



## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Birdman said:


> Depends on how hard you press. I've seen wheelbuilders who have a table that supports the rim with a large hole in it that clears the spokes. They then come down with an arbor press and push down on the hub to stress relive all the spokes simultaneously (the inverse of the technique I described). Flip the wheel and press again, then back on the truing stand.


Using a table with a hole in it is gentler on the rim since it supports the entire rim, unlike doing with your hands.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

bad mechanic said:


> Using a table with a hole in it is gentler on the rim since it supports the entire rim, unlike doing with your hands.


This may be true but I've had very good results using the hand method- though I use my hands and forearms to distribute the load better. I have seen people taco wheels this way, but I would argue that if it's done correctly it works well.


----------



## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

*I'll plug Bill Mould's DVD*

I know I'm a shill. At least I won't put the link here, you can search for it on amazon.

I did Bill's wheel building class. His DVD will walk you though the entire build of a three cross wheel.

As far as stress relieving I use the "hands on rim approach" but I bet the table with hole is easier on the rim. That said if the wheel is built well, it should make no difference.


----------



## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Or you can just stress relieve using a screwdriver handle and not worry about it.


----------



## disturbedrider (May 4, 2012)

Sounds like a used bike with a bent wheel

If the rim is bent from an impact, which from the described action already taken then no amount of truing can save it. save bending the rim back straight which is not advisable. 

just replace the rim.


----------



## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

I have straightened Moto/MTB rims using the press and jig taking out the misaligned spot, but only on rims that were vintage restorations and I could not be find a replacement! It is a regular press with a wide throat, but very time consuming and not worth it if a replacement is avaliable.


----------



## northland (Jun 4, 2011)

Thanks for the replys, I read them all

The wheel is 2 years old, its a roval control 29er.


----------



## nov0798 (Nov 27, 2005)

Birdman said:


> Place the wheel on the floor, rim parallel to the floor (hub on the ground), place your hands at 3 and 9 oclock and press down on the rim. Rotate your hand positions on the rim by 30° and press down again, etc. etc. Flip the wheel over and repeat above process.
> 
> You'll hear and feel the spokes settling.
> 
> ...


This is exactly how I was taught, and have never had a problem! Helps to let the spokes unwind after truing. I have also taken Bills class!

Your not going to be able to put any more load on the rim than it would experience while riding. If you push the rim and it folds, then it wasnt going to work anyway!


----------



## Shalom (Nov 7, 2008)

Another vote for Roger Musson. Quality project he has with his ebook.


----------



## TheBikeMechanic (Oct 26, 2009)

I would bet that the 2.0/1.5mm spokes that you are trying to re-true are stretching... I just did one yesterday and had to replace four extra spokes...


----------



## minh (May 23, 2004)

another vote for the Roger Musson book. I used Sheldon Brown-Bicycle Technical Information for my first wheelbuild. I later bought Schraner's book. Eventually paid for Roger Musson's pdf and his is by far the best. His lacing method is super easy compared to Sheldon's and Gerd's, IMO. He says you don't need a tension meter and can go by sound. I however like having and using one.


----------



## kjmoon (Nov 28, 2013)

Mike T. said:


> I own all wheelbuilding resources that I know of. Roger Musson's downloadable e-book is the best IMO. If you don't like reading it on the computer, print it off and have it spiral-bound at Staples, or some other print place, like I did.
> 
> The worst wheelbuilng resource, again IMO, is Schraner's.


My best wheelbuilding resource is Roger Musson's(The Professional Guide to Wheel Building)

You can purchase the book on line and then download it.


----------



## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> And if Roger comes up with some better info, he updates the download and gives everyone a free copy. Try *that* with a hardcopy book.


What mainly gets updated? I considered buying his book (current, 6th edition), but found an older version online in pdf form for free (3rd edition).


----------



## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> What mainly gets updated? I considered buying his book (current, 6th edition), but found an older version online in pdf form for free (3rd edition).


I purchased 5.01 of the book and recently downloaded 6.02. There are ~6 additional pages.

It is an excellent book and worth every bit of what he charges... buy it.


----------



## Joe_Re (Jan 10, 2011)

I took a pretty bad digger this summer and trashed my rear wheel. I couldn't afford to replace it straight away and couldn't pull it back to true by the spokes so I went to defcon 1. I marked to and from where it was out of whack all the way around the wheel and laid the rim against some 2x4s spaced apart, took the trusty rubber dead blow mallet and went to town on it. The wheel was totally potato chipped in four places and in both directions, bout an inch and a half out of true overall and a quarter of an inch out of round. The wheel isn't perfect, but I got the tensions pretty close and it hasn't gone back out of whack yet.

The guy who taught me to build wheels swears by the screwdriver de-stressing method, but we typically do it by pressing cause it's a little quicker.


----------



## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Great site: Wheels

I also own musson's ebook. between these two you cant go wrong


----------



## cbd5600 (Jul 6, 2012)

dwyooaj said:


> Great site: Wheels
> 
> I also own musson's ebook. between these two you cant go wrong


I just finished my first wheel build. My main resource was Roger Musson's book. I must have read it 10 times front to back. The link you provided is also a really good resource.


----------

