# new Token integrated cranks: 784g



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

i just got to weigh some new intergated MTB cranks:

Token TK 200 EX-AL

Chainrings: 44/32/22 
Length: 175mm 
BB width: 68-73mm
Q-factor: 160mm(that's much slimmer than XTR!!!)
weight: 784g

by replacing the standard steel chainringbolts the weight drops to just 764g - not bad!


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*same in carbon...*

and the same in "carbon":

Token TK 200 EX-AC

weight 815g

everything else is the same. heavier because they simply covered the aluminium cranks with some layers of carbon.


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## mpap89 (Mar 10, 2005)

would it be possible to put lighter chainrings on those. what size chainrings are they?
-mpap


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## AZ-X (Feb 16, 2004)

The BB looks promising, but those arms look _awfully_ thin and hollowed out...


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## xc_burner (Mar 7, 2004)

Where can I get a set? Any idea how much they cost?


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## chruby99 (Dec 11, 2004)

*Token*

I like Token parts. They seem real high quality. I have a headset,Ti M15 self extracting crank bolts, and steerer spacers. Great price on quality stuff.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*standard sized rings...*



mpap89 said:


> would it be possible to put lighter chainrings on those. what size chainrings are they?
> -mpap


unlike XTR these come with compact sized chainrings (XT).

as shown above some aluminium bolts already drop 20g. the rings are still heavy and can be made lighter with ease...i'd say another 20g can be saved easily by shaving the massive rings.

they look great. i like these better than anything that shimano has on the market. and for me a BIG plus is the much narrower Q-factor of 160mm compared to other integrated cranksets.


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## mpap89 (Mar 10, 2005)

how can we get these things or other token parts (i'm assuming you are a dealer now)


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

*Nice find nino*

I love the weight, just don't like the crazy graphics. Are they stickers? Any hope of removing them? Also noticed you can order them with skf bearings, and thought I read something about ceramics in one as well.

If the shifting of the rings is good, and the arms are stiff, they are gonna sell like crazy. Token is usually pretty reasonable about their prices, unlike the big "S". Curious to hear some reviews. Are you selling these nino? What are they going for?

Peace


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

mpap89 said:


> how can we get these things or other token parts (i'm assuming you are a dealer now)


no, i'm no dealer. however good friend of the head of Eclipse who distributes these parts in Switzerland as well as other nice parts:
http://www.eclipse.ch/2005/index.html


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## mpap89 (Mar 10, 2005)

nino said:


> no, i'm no dealer. however good friend of the head of Eclipse who distributes these parts in Switzerland as well as other nice parts:
> http://www.eclipse.ch/2005/index.html


does anyone know of an american distributor, there isn't too muhc stuff on ebay as of now.
-mpap


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## AZ-X (Feb 16, 2004)

I'll say again that the BB looks promising, especially with the possibility of SKF bearings, but those arms look really a bit too thin in the cross section. They are not even as thick as the non-S-Works cranks that Sugino used to make for Specialized--and those non-forged, thin cross-section cranks flexed like crazy (didn't need a German testing machine to see it either...) I would really like to see how those handle side loads and if they can hold up to handling even 1-2 foot drops on a regular basis.

Token seems to have made some good stuff up to now. I hope they didn't cut one too many corners to save weight in this case.


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## CulBaire (Jan 18, 2004)

I can't imagine the Token cranks lasting all that long. Token are pretty big here in Australia / New Zealand / Asia with a few shops pushing their products pretty hard. Seeing their products in person, they don’t really strike me as quality products- more of a cheap imitation. Their horrible looking dualie comes to mind  


Apparently, rumor has it Token does the carbon stuff for FSA- meaning the same company does the manufacturing for both brands; Australia really is quiet misinformed - and will generally believe what the manufacture or anyone associated with the company says; so I am not sure of any truth to that. Would not surprise me however given the nature of the bicycle industry. 


They are certainly light for an integrated, external BB system about time we saw someone challenging the XTR line of cranks. However I myself would not trust them on my bike, or for my use.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

yeah, so far from the Token items that i have seen/purchased the workmanship and quailty is a crap shoot!

Sure they might make itmes for other manufactors, but they hold Token it a higher quality standard.

Most this CF stuff for componets comes form 2-4 factoires in taiwan and the same said for frames. Now China is jumping on the CF bandwagon, but thier CF stuff right now is not up too par with Taiwan from what I hear.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

mpap89 said:


> does anyone know of an american distributor, there isn't too muhc stuff on ebay as of now.
> -mpap


I'd look into hyperbolts.com They are a good company to deal with IMO. They don't have this crank listed yet; however, I'd be willing to bet if you inquired about it they would get it for you. BTW, they are coming out w/ some Ti padcarrier bolts/nuts in a few weeks. They have pretty good prices as a rule. Much better then SRP.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

nino said:


> no, i'm no dealer. however good friend of the head of Eclipse who distributes these parts in Switzerland as well as other nice parts:
> http://www.eclipse.ch/2005/index.html


If he's interested in doing business here in the US tel him to get an English link option for his website. Arghh!!


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## yetirich (Jan 12, 2004)

Here is the mothership website:

http://www.tokenproducts.com/2005/05htm/index.php

And here is the American website:

http://www.token-usa.com/

Good luck


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## The Psycho (Jul 17, 2005)

nice cranks


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

wanna bet those are the same as bontrager cranks they look pretty similar.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Williwoods said:


> wanna bet those are the same as bontrager cranks they look pretty similar.


Nope, TruVativ Firex GXP.


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## Nigel (Jan 13, 2004)

Williwoods said:


> wanna bet those are the same as bontrager cranks they look pretty similar.


or as the following poster stated....truvativ.

It wouldnt be the first time that a taiwan super-manufacturer out-sourced their components to numerous different companies, who called them their own. 
However, I dont really think the evidence is sure enough to make this claim yet.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

actually i think those tokens look more similar to FSA's not truvativs


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*same rings...*

the rings look the same and are manufactured by Shuriken.
other than that the arms of the Truvativ and Token aren't the same.


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

nino said:


> the rings look the same and are manufactured by Shuriken.
> other than that the arms of the Truvativ and Token aren't the same.


surely you would agree that the similarities are striking though, right.......? I have a hard time believing those are a totally new design they just arent different enough than say compared to the extralites, storcks, TA, etc............. I think they arent different enough to be higly desireable as well. I would love to see a weight comparison of the truvative/bontrager's, fsa's, etc......that should give us a pretty good idea I think.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I have it on good authority that Token and FSA are manufactured in the same facility. FSA is a separate brand that buys components from the manufacturer. Token is the factories inhouse brand. 
Token was established to increase product volume to keep manufacturing costs down. FSA sells their stuff for similar prices to Shimano or SRAM,.......expensive.
Token is the same quality as FSA, but at 35% less.

it's a no brainer really..


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## Kspr (Mar 4, 2004)

What I'd really like to see, was a set with an alloy axle and a five arm compact spider. Oh yeah, it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg either...


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

I think someone else said it but, it's worth repeating: those are some of the butt ugliest cranks I've ever seen. Nice graphics. Apparently it appeals to the Swiss asthetic. It must be a Swiss thang.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

The appeal is they are CHEAP and have a nice mark-up like KCNC if you go direct .

Token along with other factorires in Taiwan make stuff for FSA. Those cranks are basically Truvativ cranks with FSA style BB accroding to someone @ SRAM.

Again so far thier quality is 50/50 on the carbon stuff. I went through 8 stems due to crabon laying issues and face plates to to spec for 26.0 bars. They were making clamps to fit 26.0 and 25.4 form the same mold. Just did not fit right with road bars. the stem portion was right, but the face plates were slighty big for 25.4 and to small for 26.0 .

I hear many complaints about ISIS Splines not be up to spec!

KCNC Campy cassettes have a hard time fitting Campy freehubs.

One thing I notic and can say is, when the big companies contract these factories, they are help to higher Quality control. But it seems for thier house brands, it's not there to keep cost down!

Now it's time to order a batch of those KCNC ti Lite seatposts!! :smilewinkgrin:

I also agree that the graphics on those cranks suck! The stems and saddles look nice though...


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## MaLóL (Nov 11, 2005)

i love taiwain.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

MaLóL said:


> i love taiwain.


Why dontcha move there then, or at least get a Tiawanese mail-order bride. Just giving you some grief, Malol. You know I love to hear from you on this board even though I thought you said goodby to us last week in a fit of frustration. It's hard to stay away, I know. Are you going to buy a set of these lovely cranks from your buddy Nino? You know that would make him really happy and would go a long way to mending the rift between you two.


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## moose8500 (Sep 18, 2004)

They look exactly the same as the truvativ to me. Same indent on the top part, same hollowed out inside, same same same. In this case, the carbon version really seems stupid to me. How in the world would they market it? Here is the superlite carbon version, but, ummm.... its heavier?!?!?! Doesn't make sense to me.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

MaLóL said:


> i love taiwain.


Why dontcha move there then, or at least get a Tiawanese mail-order bride. Just giving you some grief, Malol. You know I love to hear from you on this board even though I thought you said goodby to us last week in a fit of frustration. It's hard to stay away, I know. Are you going to buy a set of these lovely cranks from your buddy Nino? You know that would make him really happy and would go a long way to mending the rift between you two.


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## elephant (Mar 21, 2006)

Are the token BB's any good? The ti ISIS is the same weight as an American Classic.

Sorry to change the thread topic, but it is related. I hope that is OK.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

They newer ISIS BB from Token are pretty smooth, but I would only reccomend them for Road use only.

I am running one now (06 TOKEN Ultralight Carbon/Ti ISIS BB) for 500+ miles and looks pretty good so far!


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## Carbon Ken (Mar 31, 2005)

Here's a Token ISIS carbon crankset on Ebay :

http://cgi.ebay.com/Token-Carbon-Fi...6195QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

nino, any updates on how the crankset rides? Good? bad? Stiff enough? How much roughly did you pay?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> nino, any updates on how the crankset rides? Good? bad? Stiff enough? How much roughly did you pay?


i don't use them...

i never used any integrated cranks so far. usually heavier and wider than what i like.


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## BabyBike (Dec 3, 2004)

*First Impressions*

They felt rather stiff on my Epic for my 53kg ass so i guess I am not really a very good judge for stiffness.

I am using the carbon wrapped version(labelled as aerozine instead of token), I found that the chainline is about 50mm from the middle of the frame, moving one spacer from the right to the left might be better, thats what i am planning to do the next few days....

I replaced the middle ring with a middleburn one as i do most of my pedaling in there and I found that the rings shifts quite well.... The BB is also as smooth as my previous XTs but i can yet to review the durability.

Mine weight about 810g complete(Aerozine X12 carbon wrapped version)


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

*What it the hype on intergrated cranks?*

Guys, please tell me the benefits on intergrated cranks. I see the market moving this way, and I'm clueless as to why? My setup is about 90-120 grams lighter, and works
excellent.


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## natrab (May 28, 2007)

They look interesting. I may have to try them.


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## bbtheory (Mar 20, 2007)

I had a set of these (the alloy model with external BB) cranks and they were flexy as hell (I weigh 95 kilos) and they did not spin smoothly, I got rid of them in a week and replaced with a XT crank. It may have been a bad BB that caused the smoothness problem, but I don't think heavier riders (I weigh 95 kilos) will like these cranks at all because of the flex.


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## bdc88 (Sep 27, 2005)

Would a non intergrated crankset not give you a better option to go more narrow. I like to run a 2 X 9 set up and with a standard crank set, I can remove the granny gear, use a road BB and get the cranks closer inward (better Q-factor). With the intergrated cranks are you not stuck with the 73mm distance due to the intergrated axle. 

This has been the only reason why I have not gone to intergrated cranks at this point. 

While I do understand that different cranks have different Q-factors, 68 X 108 is a lot nicers than 68 X 113. I also understand that running a crankset like this is totally dependant on the frame you run as well but my SS frame and XC frame work great with a 68 X 108 BB and I think there is about 5-6 mm of crankarm clearance on each side.

Intergrated cranks - stiffer?
Non intergrated - more options and better Q-factors?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*correct*



bdc88 said:


> Would a non intergrated crankset not give you a better option to go more narrow. I like to run a 2 X 9 set up and with a standard crank set, I can remove the granny gear, use a road BB and get the cranks closer inward (better Q-factor). With the intergrated cranks are you not stuck with the 73mm distance due to the intergrated axle.
> 
> This has been the only reason why I have not gone to intergrated cranks at this point.
> 
> ...


integrated cranks usually are stiffer than "regular" cranks. we discussed this many times alraeyd and i still don't see any real benefit.

correct - there's only a few intergated cranks that have a narrow q-factor. i once installed a integrated XT crankset on my winterbike but felt like a comboy sitting on a bull when riding these cranks. i then measured and discovered they were about 18mm wider than my previous crankset...i had to get rid of those XT cranks imediately!!

another note is that so far most integrated BBs seem to spin less freely than the old style BBs.

i also prefer a narrow q-factor and i also run a roadie BB on my bikes. in addition most integrated cranksets come with 4-bolt chainrings which again limit you in chainring sizes. you can't put a lightweight 20t granny, you can't put 29t...and you have to live with the width they come with. i would like to have such cranksets with some adjustement to overall width. like you said, if you have a 68mm wide BB-shell there is no need to add all those 3 spacers still. this only adds weight and overall width.


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## crank1979 (Feb 3, 2006)

Do the Token cranks still say "manufactured by Aerozine" on the back?

A while ago i asked about Aerozine cranks in the Drivetrain forum and no-one could tell me anything. I've since been told that Aerozine is the manufacturer that a few companies use to make their cranks. I've got the Aerozine branded version of the aluminium Token cranks in this thread.

I bought them because they were cheap, light and available in pink.:thumbsup: 

I've found them to be plenty stiff for me, weighing around the 75-80kg mark and using them on an 853 steel hardtail. I had to adjust the chainline using a spacer to enjoy better shifting but once that was sorted they have been fine. The chainrings aren't brilliant however and i do get some chainsuck. It happens about once a ride and i'm figuring i can put up with it until i wear the rings out and then i'll chuck on something better.

The bearings in the bb are supposed to be SKF bearings i think, so they should be good for a while. The guys at the shop i bought them from have apparently had one set returned by someone who installed them himself because they felt rough/didn't spin smoothly but i haven't had any problems in that area.

The only thing to be really concerned about i think is making sure the single pinch bolt on the left arm has some thread locking compound on it to prevent it coming loose.


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## bobbyOCR (Feb 11, 2007)

Identical crankset with SKF BB, $149.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

bobbyOCR said:


> Identical crankset with SKF BB, $149.


where do I order that from?


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## Patriot222 (Dec 16, 2007)

nino said:


> integrated cranks usually are stiffer than "regular" cranks. we discussed this many times alraeyd and i still don't see any real benefit.
> 
> correct - there's only a few intergated cranks that have a narrow q-factor. i once installed a integrated XT crankset on my winterbike but felt like a comboy sitting on a bull when riding these cranks. i then measured and discovered they were about 18mm wider than my previous crankset...i had to get rid of those XT cranks imediately!!
> 
> ...


Ditto everything that Nino just said. I recently switched back to ISIS from integrated for the reasons he mentioned. After installing and American Classic split ring BB, I was amazed has how freely is spun compared to the XTR crank and shell before it. Additionally, I'm about 75 grams lighter than the XTR set up and any difference in stiffness is inperceptible on my set-up. I have no doubt that integrated will dominate in the future and I actually like the concept, I just don't think it's quite there yet. Maybe in another year or two.


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## mafia6 (Sep 30, 2005)

bobbyOCR said:


> Identical crankset with SKF BB, $149.


where to get them at that price?


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## Soya (Jun 22, 2007)

Me too!


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## Rick205 (Jul 6, 2006)

They are Aerozine cranks.

I am a dealer of their products and carry their skf bb's, standard bb's headsets and grips at present, i will be getting chainsets soon also.

Im in the UK, there must be a dealer in the us? - My prices wouldnt be competitive to the us due to your exchange rate at present.

www.Aerozinebike.com is their web address - maybe they can get you some more info, im not sure.

Rick


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## Baltazar (Jan 30, 2004)

Rick205 said:


> They are Aerozine cranks.
> 
> I am a dealer of their products and carry their skf bb's, standard bb's headsets and grips at present, i will be getting chainsets soon also.
> 
> ...


what is the price in UK?

/jens


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## bobbyOCR (Feb 11, 2007)

Just to clarify, I'm not recommending them. They're terrible cranks, only light and cheap. Rings wear VERY quickly, bend easily, but are light. Arms are flexy as hell, but light. Pinch bolt is one pinch bolt. Terrible idea, red loctite essential if you want to ride them. Even then it is a crapshoot. Preload system is also not great.

BBs are very good though. Slightly soft (use the full tool, not the shimano open-ended one....the park one) but light and durable. Anodised too.


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## Some Guy (Mar 27, 2005)

bobbyOCR said:


> Just to clarify, I'm not recommending them. They're terrible cranks, only light and cheap. Rings wear VERY quickly, bend easily, but are light. Arms are flexy as hell, but light. Pinch bolt is one pinch bolt. Terrible idea, red loctite essential if you want to ride them. Even then it is a crapshoot. Preload system is also not great.
> 
> BBs are very good though. Slightly soft (use the full tool, not the shimano open-ended one....the park one) but light and durable. Anodised too.


My experience pretty much exactly. Bottom line? Save your pennies and get XTR.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Some Guy said:


> My experience pretty much exactly. Bottom line? Save your pennies and get XTR.


It eventually all comes down to why you're trying to make it light. If you want something that can be readily serviced in the paddock before a race because you pooched something during the warmup or practice laps, then XTR is a great balance between tweaky high performance and ultra light weight. And there's that familiar Shimano service tent/trailer in the paddock that will have the parts you need and will turn your repair around in time for the call up to the starting line.


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## bobbyOCR (Feb 11, 2007)

Some Guy said:


> My experience pretty much exactly. Bottom line? Save your pennies and get XTR.


Or Deus. w/ one of their bbs. saves 20g and adds durability off the mark.

These aren't worth the weight. If you are ever going to race, find a pair of XT cranks. They actually work.


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## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

I just purchased a set of XTR cranks although haven't received them yet. I agonized for days over what to buy. After reading all the reviews and posting the "Best crank to buy" question on several forums the XTR just seemed like the best of all worlds. Light, durable, stiff and easy to maintain and install. Even with XTR being the most expensive of the group including the Token. I could have had the Token for $100 less than the $345 I paid for the XTR, pro deal on the Token.


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## raceer2 (Jul 21, 2007)

Good choice juanmoretime, you will not be dissapointed....I tried the token very briefly (read a wk or so) and raced one short xc race during this period but not happy with the somewhat flexy nature of the cranks even with my 60kg weight... have ditched them in favour of my tried/tested xtr's (older 960's)..so yours should be even better !!

As above on another bike, I have the xt's. Again bulletproof. Given the choice I would also choose xt over the tokens. Sometimes, shimano just works !!


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