# GPS for Biking and Running?



## GTScott (Nov 19, 2007)

I hope this is not one of those magical topics that has been beaten to death already...

I have recently gotten into running in addition to cycling. I have seen the Edge GPS units for the bike but never forked over the cash for one. As I am starting to run, I see runner specific GPS "watches" which I assume would also work on a bike for distance/HRM/etc. I looked in a few catalogs and saw one Garmin "watch" that is listed as being for multisport. Are there others out there? Does anyone here use the same compact GPS for cycling and running?

Any insight is appreciated.

-GT


----------



## bsaunder (Feb 25, 2004)

garmin forerunner is the main one you'll see - my wife uses it quite a bit for running, biking, hiking, snowshoeing, etc....
I've used my edge for running, but it really just rides in my pocket and records the workout as it isn't too easy to "mount" it somewhere that I can see while running.

I believe Sunto makes one with few bells and whistles. The Polar CS800 has a gps pod for it, but you'll be wearing two things rather than just the one with the garmin.


----------



## paulrad9 (Sep 29, 2005)

bsaunder said:


> gThe Polar CS800 has a gps pod for it, but you'll be wearing two things rather than just the one with the garmin.


I've used both and prefer the Polar approach. While there are two small parts as opposed to one (big) one, the long battery life (measured in months as opposed to hours), smaller size and more accurate pace information make the pod a better option for running.


----------



## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

I have the Forerunner 305. I posted pics last spring of the bike mount that you can get from Garmin. It works as well as I could hope. The screen is smaller than the Edge, and has less info, but is useful for what I want. Also, it doesn't have the barometric altimeter but relies on GPS for elevation (not as accurate). But for running, I think its much better. I have no experience with the Polar products, so I can't compare the two.

Photos:


















Comparison between Forerunner and Timex 30 lap watch:


----------



## rockymtnway (Nov 14, 2004)

I have the Edge 305 and the GF has the Trailrunner 305. I like them both and wouldn't hesitate to buy a Trailrunner for cycling use. While it doesn't have the barimetric altimeter like the Edge, it does allow for the use of a cadance sensor and is similar in many other ways. The display is a little smaller, but you can still read up to four metrics at once without squinting (where I view five comfortably on my Edge while riding).

I haven't played with the new Polar GPS toys (heck, I didn't even know Polar was doing GPS other than for just recording distance (not mapping)), but I've always had outstanding customer service and reliability with Polar products. The Polar HRM strap is vastly superior to the Garmin.


----------



## GTScott (Nov 19, 2007)

It looks like both may be good options. I have a lot of experience with garmin in the area of GPS but not much with Polar. However, Polar definitely has the foot up in the HRM area. I assume both will let me run and then download the GPS points later to see where I went?


----------



## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

Yes, kind of. With the Garmin, you have to either used Motionbased.com or a separate program if you want a .gpx file (or to import into Google Earth). However, this is easily done. I use the Forerunner from everything from trying different routes on my commute to work to mapping new trails for future reference. I use SportTracks instead of Garmin's Training Center but still have Training Center if there's something that I need that I can't get with the other software. Downside to the Forerunner (and the Edge too I think?) is the inability to save lots of waypoints like you can on a traditional GPS. Its more of a "logger" than a true GPS, only allowing a breadcrumb type map for retracing your steps.


----------



## rockymtnway (Nov 14, 2004)

Hmmm, I've just looked at the Polar site and I don't see anything talking about using GPS data for mapping. Can anyone point me toward the right link that talks about the Polar GPS? I'm just not seeing it.


----------



## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

You're right, they talk about using the GPS for tracking speed and distance, but nothing about mapping. Also, there's no mention of any sort of mapping in their software... just graphs and stuff. I have a feeling that they left that feature out.


----------



## rockymtnway (Nov 14, 2004)

It's a shame. I've had nothing but good experiences with all my Polar products (most recently, the S720i). They stand behind their product better than any other company I've ever dealt with. If they sold cars, I'd drive one!

Still, the 305s are very sweet units. While I've had a few issues with mine (one after getting drowned in the '06 24 hours of Moab, the others seem to be a charging/firmware issue), they've done a fair job of keeping me happy. A friend of mine has sent hers in three or four times now and every time she's received a new unit despite the fact that she's now well out of warranty period. You may want to take a browse of the motionbased forums to know what you should expect for potential problems. I'll likely be upgrading to a 705 because I want to use a powermeter and have more internal maps, but I'm going to wait a bit so they can work out a few kinks before handing over my $500.


----------



## bstyle74 (May 8, 2005)

I mostly bike, and when I run I usually have a waist water pack so the Edge works for me. The added accuracy of the barometric altimeter is a plus, and the Edge isn't much bigger than the Forerunner.

However, if I ran as much as I biked or run more, I'd get the Forerunner.


----------



## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

bstyle74 said:


> However, if I ran as much as I biked or run more, I'd get the Forerunner.


Which is why I went with the Forerunner. The Edge is nice (a riding bud has one) but I needed the wrist strap as I carry very little with me when I run and I run 3-4x per week and bike 1-2x per week.


----------



## GTScott (Nov 19, 2007)

I guess I really should look at the split for how I spend my time. Currently I am running 3 days a week, road bike (gasp! I know...) 2 days a week and then in the woods on the MTB as the weather and trail conditions allow, typically 1-2 days a week. That being said, my run/bike is pretty much a 50/50 split. 

For those of you who use these toys, do you think that the benefit is worth the $3-400 price?


----------



## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

I paid $212 for my Forerunner 305. For that, I think I get my money's worth, but its still a gadget that I could live without.


----------



## Trouble Maker (Mar 19, 2007)

Check out www.geomangear.com He's on here and I've heard nothing but good things about his sales and service. That's where I will buy one when I do. The prices are much cheaper than you will see anywhere else. My sisters used to work at a specialty running shop and they carried those units... his prices are about what their cost is.

If you are really going to bite the bullete soon, do it before the 31st. There is a rebate until then.


----------



## paulrad9 (Sep 29, 2005)

GTScott said:


> For those of you who use these toys, do you think that the benefit is worth the $3-400 price?


Short answer, no. I like having distance and "where I've been information", but the novelty goes away quickly. Sure, it does save me some keystrokes in that I don't have to manually enter the number of miles I went, but that's about it.

I run more than I bike, which may or may not mean much as I bike everyday. The GPS is great for mapping rides ahead of time, downloading to the device and then referring to the device for insight into how to get where I'm going. However, it has little value when I do a ride I'm familiar with. On rides I'm not familiar with, the GPS can eliminate the dependence upon a cue sheet which may have 40, 60 or 90+ turns. It's nice knowing how far the nearest turn is, especially if you're leading a group.

For running, I don't need a map. I may plan a 20 mile run, but it will have less than a dozen turns and it's easy enough to memorize those turns. Speed is cool. Distance is cool. Elevation and inclination are cool and Pace is cool, but having your finger on these data points while running means little. Hear rate is the best barometer of exertion, but during a long run, your pace does come in handy as you experience cardiac drift; so while running at 75% may equate to 8:00 minute miles when you're early in the run, it may be 8:30s when you start to get dehydrated, so having pace is another data field that can keep you on schedule for finishing a race at the time you targeted.

Another time when pace comes into play is during speed work, that way you can determine if you kept the same pace throughout the distance you ran. You can also measure cadence with the Polar 800 to ensure your strides are 180/min, but it counting steps in your head will do the same. GPS is not good at displaying your pace at these speeds and pods are better.

As for distance, I know the routes I run and plan them ahead of time, so having the distance displayed on a Garmin or Polar only confirms to me that each device is capable of calculating distance. And even when I'm out, my pace is always about the same, +/- a few seconds a mile, so if I have a stop watch, I can determine how far I've gone and how far I have to go before I'll be rewarded with a big glass of Fruit Punch-flavored Gatorade 

Executive Summary: To be a good runner, you just need to get out the door and run. A simple heart rate monitor will help point you to an exertion level, but so can the talk test, where your exertion should never be at a point where you can't talk without sounding winded.

When it comes to doing intervals of varying lengths or alternating your pace for different race distances, the HRM will get you right where you need to be. Knowing where you've been, how far you've gone or how fast you're going will have little impact on making you a better runnner.


----------



## GTScott (Nov 19, 2007)

Ok, I am ready to bite. I think the ForeRunner will be the way to go based on my previous Garmin experience. Now I need to determine 205 vs. 305. I think the 305 is my best bet. I think I will tell the wife she can get me this for Christmas. 

The site listed above has the 305 for $219.99. I see some mention of a $50 rebate fron POWERBAR. How do I get that?

The help here has been wonderful!


----------



## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

According to Garmin: 
http://www8.garmin.com/whatsNew/currentpromotions/

Scroll down to the Forerunner/Edge info. But the rebate expires on Friday...


----------



## GTScott (Nov 19, 2007)

My order has been placed. went ahead and got the quick release kit ($15) in case i wanted to put it on the handlebars. Well under $200 all said and done. Very cool. 

For the rebate, I followed the link on the Garmin site and it takes you to Powerbar. After completing the second step a popup comes up with a link to the actual rebate form. If anyone needs the rebate form, let me know as I saved the pdf.

Thanks for all the help!


----------



## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Trouble Maker said:


> Check out www.geomangear.com He's on here and I've heard nothing but good things about his sales and service. That's where I will buy one when I do. The prices are much cheaper than you will see anywhere else. My sisters used to work at a specialty running shop and they carried those units... his prices are about what their cost is.
> 
> If you are really going to bite the bullete soon, do it before the 31st. There is a rebate until then.


Thanks for mentioning us! We appreciate your support.

BTW, the rebate expires on the 30th of November - just two days away.

We sell so many we get really good prices.


----------



## Trouble Maker (Mar 19, 2007)

GEOMAN said:


> Thanks for mentioning us! We appreciate your support.
> 
> BTW, the rebate expires on the 30th of November - just two days away.


Not a problem man. You always seem to be able to and do help when someone has a question about these units, or even other GPS units you don't sell/GPS units in general. Thanks for the correction on the date, I would hate to see this guy not get the rebate because I remembered the date wrong. :thumbsup:


----------



## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Glad to be here on this forum (and riding). Have met many great peeps as a result!


----------



## homebody146 (Sep 18, 2006)

If you use a macintosh, there's the Adeo ....it's a gps and uses voice information rather than a screen....it's around $150. Not sure if it works with windows for synching though. Website is motionlingo.com


----------



## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

We've offered the Adeo for sale for months and have yet to sell one. Don't know why. Do you have one? Do you like it?

Let us know.

Thanks!


----------



## 05stumpy (Jul 21, 2005)

Just scooped up a Edge 305, just under the rebate wire...thanks GEOMAN! Looking forward to using it for on and off road biking as well as running. Would also like the Vista HCx but I should probably sell my basic Etrex first. Do they offer a motorcycle mount for the Vista?


----------



## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Thank you!!!! Appreciate the biz!

Yes, they make an oversized bar for the Vista series. If you want one, PM me.


----------



## TortugaTonta (Jun 14, 2004)

I have some questions so I guess I will put them here rather than start a new thread...

I am thinking of getting the Garmin 60csx, it seems to do the stuff the forerunner does, speed, distance, elevation gained and lost, avg speed and top speed I believe and also has mapping making it more versatle than the forerunner.

But is it compatible with the training and motion base software that the forerunner is??

I thought of getting the forerunner for riding and getting the gps card for my Dell PDA and utilizing the larger screen for mapping but I don't know how well they work and it may be to cumbersome .

I am also afraid my short attention span will get bored with it and it will collect dust after 2 weeks.


I know there is the 705 coming out but right now I need that new toy to light a fire under my ass and keep me riding through the winter

Hey maybe I could graph the 25 dirtjumps in my back yard


----------



## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

I don't think that the 60csx works with training center. It "saves" the track info in a different format. I find the Forerunner to be a great toy, but I'm not looking to use it for mapping or anything like that. As for GPS with a PDA, just make sure you have sufficient RAM to handle the map updating. I'm sure yours does, but some (like my iPAQ) can't handle more than simple planner/address book functions. Hey, it was free from work, and now I know why.


----------



## paulrad9 (Sep 29, 2005)

I have not used Training Center but have successfully used the 60 csx with Motion Based.


----------



## homebody146 (Sep 18, 2006)

Geoman, I did use it a bit when I got it and it was ok....the "play through" for the iPod works well so that you can hear the voice on the adeo and the music or podcasts that you're listening to with no need for two sets of earphones....however, when garmin released the macintosh version for synching, I bought an edge 305....I must say that the voice in the adeo is easier than trying to see the edge screen in sunlight and you have to find a place for the adeo (on your arm or in a pocket that has unobstructed view to the satellites) . When I got the adeo, i couldn't find a decent bike mount for it and this is where the garmin is much better. I haven't used the adeo since the garmin mac stuff was released.


----------



## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

homebody146 said:


> Geoman, I did use it a bit when I got it and it was ok....the "play through" for the iPod works well so that you can hear the voice on the adeo and the music or podcasts that you're listening to with no need for two sets of earphones....however, when garmin released the macintosh version for synching, I bought an edge 305....I must say that the voice in the adeo is easier than trying to see the edge screen in sunlight and you have to find a place for the adeo (on your arm or in a pocket that has unobstructed view to the satellites) . When I got the adeo, i couldn't find a decent bike mount for it and this is where the garmin is much better. I haven't used the adeo since the garmin mac stuff was released.


Hey! Appreciate the feedback very much.

Your points are well taken. BTW, I'm a Macophile too.


----------

