# Bikes for the Chronologically Challenged



## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I turn 70 on 6/21. I've decided somewhere in the next year, I can buy a new bike just because I want to.

Currently I'm riding a 2015 Santa Cruz 5010 which is a 27.5" for those not familiar with the bike. I just changed the length of the fork from the stock 130 mm to 140 mm. Granted, another 1/3" of travel should not be something I feel but I've tricked my mind into thinking I do feel the difference so now I ride faster on more technical terrain.

Who wants to play the game an suggest a new ride? Keep in mind, I would trade in the 5010 to help pay for it. Any strong thoughts on what an old man who feels about 50 should be riding? Is this new fangled 29" here to stay. Will 26" come out of hiding? Is 27.5" where we will all end up anyway.


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## YJ Bill (Jul 16, 2013)

all the cool guys are riding 29ers. Lots of improvements in geometry.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Thanks,

I am considering a Highboy, Highboy LT or Tallboy, all of which should be revised in the next month or so which fits my time schedule. I'm a Santa Cruz fan and my local dealer carries them so it works for me.

Any other thoughts? 27.5+?


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## sheatrock (Jul 23, 2009)

I’m a 61 year old who has been into two wheel sports since my youth. I had raced motorcycles in the 70”s and began mountain biking in the mid 80”s. My current bike is a Pivot Switchblade and can say that I’m sold on the newer geometry of the current crop of bikes. The handling and stability feels much more like a motorcycle, it plows through the rough and carves turns. The only down side being the lower bottom bracket height. I live in the northeast where trails where the trails are rocky and pedal strikes are an issue. 
I originally purchased the bike in 27.5 plus configuration and after almost a year I obtained a set of 29er wheels and fitted 2.6 tires, The larger wheels helped with pedal strike issue with very little downside. I will say I do feel that the bike handling seems slower and requires some more attention when carving turns at speed with the 29er wheels.
For you, the terrain and trails you ride will need to be considered when purchasing a new bike.


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## fredcook (Apr 2, 2009)

Rev Bubba said:


> Any other thoughts? 27.5+?


Personally, I prefer non plus. For me, plus isn't as crisp feeling, not as playful, and a bit unwieldy for my typical (and preferred) terrain. Also, from a diameter point of view, I like 27.5 over 29, and a 27.5+ is nearly a 29.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I'm 3 years behind you, 67 in August. I've also gone through a similar evolution. I had a Yeti SB5c that I upgraded to a 160 (Vs. stock 150) fork in 2016. At the time that I bought the Yeti, I had looked at and ridden a few 29ers and really didn't care for them. At the end of last summer, I decided to ride a few more and tried the SB100, Giant Trance 29, and Ripley V3. All of the bikes were at least 4 pounds heavier than my Yeti and all climbed faster. The Giant and Ripley also descended faster and with more, "authority"!
I'm at the point that this increase in speed on the 29ers is significant enough that I can ride with my 27 year old son, and still not bore him to death. That's a big deal for me.
Anyway, I got the Trance Pro 29 1 and put some lighter components on it and man, I love that bike! There are numerous options in this category - if you go to a Trance 29, I'd get the DPX2 Vs. DPS shock. Other than that, these shorter travel 29ers are pretty awesome! Oddly, on a short ride, I did try out a Hightower in a 27.5+ and really thought it rode much like my Giant....but I only was on the bike for 10 minutes, and it was a pretty gentle trail. Worth a look, though, I suppose.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Rev Bubba said:


> I turn 70 on 6/21. I've decided somewhere in the next year, I can buy a new bike just because I want to.
> 
> Currently I'm riding a 2015 Santa Cruz 5010 which is a 27.5" for those not familiar with the bike. I just changed the length of the fork from the stock 130 mm to 140 mm. Granted, another 1/3" of travel should not be something I feel but I've tricked my mind into thinking I do feel the difference so now I ride faster on more technical terrain.
> 
> Who wants to play the game an suggest a new ride? Keep in mind, I would trade in the 5010 to help pay for it. Any strong thoughts on what an old man who feels about 50 should be riding? Is this new fangled 29" here to stay. Will 26" come out of hiding? Is 27.5" where we will all end up anyway.


Start test rides, go to demos or rentals where you can know the bike on trails. Make sure suspension is set up correctly.

My late model Fuel EX does plus or big 29r tires. We rebuilt the family Honzo with the new class of wider but not plus 29r rims and tires. I've ridden modestly configured and high end versions of my bike, rented $3000 and $9000 bikes. In all that I concluded I like 29r more than plus tires overall. You do need to get used to higher axle height.

Last summer we did an epic east to west trip with family, took some bikes, rented bikes. That was midwest blue groove dirt, serious elevation change mountains, and bench type riding characterized by Fruita area. General purpose knobby 29r always worked well. A speedier setup could feel too squirrelly at times. Plus or our fattie with fast fat tires could be too slow. The Fuel EX reverse mullet (Pike 140 front) was better than my old all mountain 26r for bike park riding and super for XC and long rides.

Something else I noticed when I was trying so many bikes was suspension characteristics. All the popular makes are good these days. Horst types are still superb for keeping that rear wheel with traction and braking. Bob was never obvious with several bikes. I felt that Trek "Reaktiv" had the best of all the types I tried. It wasn't as on/off stiff or plush as some. It doesn't have that Horst type sink or wallow. I didn't feel the need to reach for the shock lever on climbs like some. The reverse mullet setup with the suspension chip in higher mode is a nice do it all version of slack but not too low.

Friends have the 5010 and the Tall Boy. Both are nice. For years I never thought a Trek would be in the league but with all that test riding I learned it really is. All the test riding really illustrated how you get diminishing returns as you spend.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

bitflogger said:


> Start test rides, go to demos or rentals where you can know the bike on trails. Make sure suspension is set up correctly.


Yeah. Suspension set up and tire pressures will be key! I had to modify both on all of my demos.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Thanks. 
I live in northwest NJ and ride the type of terrain you describe. Lots of short(er) technical climbs and drops. I seldom find a place where I can just pedal fast and straight before rocks, roots, etc. spoil the flow.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I mentioned the Hightower for a couple reason. Mostly because when I look back over the past four years, I find that given a choice, I've rented a Hightower directly from Santa Cruz to ride in Santa Cruz and from a shop in Hawaii to ride on the big island where I used it over lava and to ride part way up Mouna Kea on a dirt road. Plus I demo'ed the 29 and 27+ versions on my home trails in NW NJ. I've always liked it. As to why I didn't get it instead of the 5010. That's easy. It didn't exist at that point.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Thank you for your input.

When I bought the 5010 in '15, it was the result of lots of demos including Trek, Yeti, Pivot, Giant and Santa Cruz. Frankly, even then, there were no bad bikes, at least in the price category I was interested in. 

I was coming from a 26" Giant Trance. I can't say a model because I obtained the frame thanks to a Giant rep who wanted to get me on Giant because of the numerous posts I had on MTBR and the stories I had in Dirt Rag at that time which shows the influence of MTBR if you connect to the right people. That part of my life is long past.

Anyway, the Trance was full custom thanks to a buddy who could build a bike blind folded. I had neither the talent nor, today, the facility. He has since moved to SoCal which is why I am in the market for a full bike.

Getting back to '15, I started my search looking for a 29". I tested many and found I really liked the Tallboy and Giant had decided at that time to concentrate on 27.5" only if you remember that time.

Then, I went to a Santa Cruz demo and was able to ride the new 5010 and Bronson. Hmmm, maybe there was something about that size; like the fact that the park we demo'ed in had a number of sharp turns with a bridge and when I rode the 29's, I would always come out to the right of the bridge and when I tried the 27.5" I came out dead center. Add to that the fact that Santa Cruz took the Tallboy out of their line just when I would have pulled the trigger and the Pivot was a little too expensive to justify. I did two more Santa Cruz demo's and the 5010 was the clear winner over the Bronson so I bought it.

Soon after that, the Tallboy V2 arrived but I had my bike and was happy with it. 

Back to the present. I really like the 27.5+ I've ridden but hesitate to make plus size my only bike. I've continued to rent 29's when I'm off riding somewhere far from home and like them.

My options will be to test ride the next versions of the Tallboy, Highboy and Highboy LT when they are introduced in the next few months. In the mean time I've gone to a 140 mm Pike on my 5010 V1 and demoed the new Blur last summer which blew me away but a $10,000 bike should blow me away.

One last option is to stay with my current 5010, upgrade to a 12x1 drivetrain and a 2.5" tire in front which the Pike can handle and buy a new Chameleon 27.5+.

If anyone was around the last time I went through this, you will know I don't just jump into a new bike, tempting as that may be so enjoy the ride.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Agreed on suspension set up. It's taken me awhile to find what I like best.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

trail 429 in plus rocks...juss sayin


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Rev Bubba said:


> Thank you for your input.
> 
> When I bought the 5010 in '15, it was the result of lots of demos including Trek, Yeti, Pivot, Giant and Santa Cruz. Frankly, even then, there were no bad bikes, at least in the price category I was interested in.
> 
> ...


First world problems I understand. You have a great bike now so one that complements it could make sense. It is really nice to have a hard tail and do it all gravel/tour type of bike too. Right now my wife and two teens are sharing several bikes so it is easy for me to love any of them. We like to ride from home and that also influences things. A hard tail is nice for that. At times the gravel/tour bikes are riding single track too.

If you want to keep your 5010 keep in mind there's not much a bike like an AM hard tail can't do. They're slow as road bikes and poor as expert trail bikes but my wife and I love our off road touring bikes too. With a fleet of bikes for all of us, I'd stress over keeping the steel Honzo, Fargo or Kona Sutra Ltd. if you could truly just have one bike. If you could have two it would be the Fuel EX (current generation) and the Sutra Ltd. with slimmer tires.

I made a mistake in my earlier post. It's a Hightower my friend has that I've ridden against my Fuel EX. In some ways they are more alike than the marketing departments or brand fan boys would admit. The "Reaktiv" shock is nice in the comparison because it doesn't stiffen up the way VPP and other modern designs did while testing yet it doesn't bob when you pedal. It's more like a Horst for keeping the tire planted yet suspension still working but unlike Horst type, doesn't sink or feel soft.

Now there appears to be far more options for approx 30 mm bead width rims without breaking the bank. You can buy two bikes for the price of a high end bike and have so much more fun in life.

Good luck solving these first world problems.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Thanks.*

These are absolutely "First World Problems." I would never deny that.

I failed to mention that I own a one year old Cannondale CAAD12 Ultegra road bike I frequently ride and an Independent Fabrication Steel Deluxe HT I seldom ride.

I'm looking for something that will roll over roots and rocks, go fast, handle tight turns etc. The 5010 does meet that criteria but there has been a fairly rapid evolution in bike geometry over the past half decade and I have the money so I also have the interest. Yes, I would like to make riding technical easier since I don't plan to change where I ride.

My wife gave up mountain biking years ago when she became tired of removing pieces of her glasses from her cheek, or so she says. She still rides road with me but not the longer, faster, groups I travel with.

Anyway, the idea of a Chameleon 27.5+ hardtail intrigues me. Maybe because I used to have a 26" Chameleon I built up for downhill at Diablo Bike Park, (now back to the Mountain Creek name). I have fond memories of it. I also no longer ride DH.

I might be looking for one "do all" mountain bike plus my road bike and could be willing to trade in both the 5010 and IF.

Anyway, thanks again for your input. I'm off with the wife for a road ride shortly.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Rev Bubba said:


> These are absolutely "First World Problems." I would never deny that.
> 
> I failed to mention that I own a one year old Cannondale CAAD12 Ultegra road bike I frequently ride and an Independent Fabrication Steel Deluxe HT I seldom ride.
> 
> ...


FYI for your wife. Modern trail bike 29r, Salsa Fargo & flat pedals were and are a revolution for my wife. Especially after she rode with a friend who she listened to vs me. She does trail riding again limited to types she enjoys, rides a lot, and the comfy and handles it all nature of the off road tourer has meant she does a lot.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)




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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I already have a 26" steel HT and I'm not looking for a fully rigid single speed at this time.


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

wheel size and HT vs. FS are a couple of things to consider but you should also consider designs that include "new geometry" steep 75+ SA and slack -66 HA is some kinda fun...


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Turning 70? You deserve a custom made steel bike.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I still have the one I bought in 2002. Independent Fabrication Steel Deluxe. Two years ago I pretty much brought up to current "standards" with little trouble finding parts for an old 26" HT.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

jcd46 said:


> Turning 70? You deserve a custom made steel bike.


Yep, over 70's ride ss rigid bikes... can't remember how to run those fancy bits, but still got the spin.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

steel can be fun too


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

26" steel hardtails do have a place in my heart. 

This morning, I just took my first bike ride with my 3.5 year old granddaughter. Her on her push bike and me on my steel HT. Somehow, the IF is always going to stay in my quiver. 

I first had it build as my reward for not getting killed on 9/11 in the WTC where I worked. At least that was the excuse I used when I told her I was having a custom bike built.

I won my first and only XC race on that bike, rode it over lots to techy stuff and continue to enjoy it but age makes me lust for a lot more cush if I'm going to continue riding the rocks that inhabit my local trails.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Changes in geometry are one of the biggest reasons I'm looking to change bikes. My 5010 V1 is a very capable bike but I bought it just before a lot of the big geometry hit the market. I'm going to a Santa Cruz demo this weekend and want to compare what is out there to what I have.

Yup, just another first world problem.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*The Search Continues*

Since I posted this a few weeks ago, I've done some serious searching and a full demo day on Santa Cruz this past weekend. Where the demo was held was 1.5 hours from where I live and the trails were much flatter and, for the most part, not as rocky.

Here are some thoughts.

1. Megatower: Heck of a bike that will ride over anything I dare try to ride over but its not right for me. It felt big which is understandable for a 29" Enduro and as well as it climbed, I could feel the effort it took when the trail turned up.

2. Tallboy: Light and tossable. I liked this version as well as the original which was not available when I bought my 5010. I'd consider it.

3. Bronson: Wow, I liked this bike! Just about as much suspension as the Megatower but with 27.5 wheels. It climbed much better and as I've experienced with every bike I've ever ridden, the smaller wheels were more nimble then the larger ones. Not nimble by a large margin but where there were tight turns, I could get to the inside with the smaller wheel easier then with the 29"

All of this is my perception or feel for a bike. Everyone else will likely have their own feel for the same bike on the same trails.

In two weeks, my local shop is having a demo and I've reserved a Bronson for a group ride on the trails I normally ride which will give me a better idea if it is the bike for me or not. I also plan to ride the current 5010 which I choose over the first generation Bronson four years ago.

It's fun to get old. Really!


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

bsieb said:


> Yep, over 70's ride ss rigid bikes... can't remember how to run those fancy bits, but still got the spin.


He's not joking.

Here's one of mine and I'm well past 70. 



But I will add gears when I get old and frail...


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Since old age doesn't even start until you die, you will remain happy with what you currently ride for the rest of your life and I, for one, am very impressed by this photo.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

I'm still liking my 2012 Tallboy Ltc, but if I was going to buy something new, I'd take a hard look at the Yeti SB130.


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

Rev Bubba said:


> Who wants to play the game an suggest a new ride? Keep in mind, I would trade in the 5010 to help pay for it. Any strong thoughts on what an old man who feels about 50 should be riding? Is this new fangled 29" here to stay. Will 26" come out of hiding? Is 27.5" where we will all end up anyway.





Rev Bubba said:


> Any other thoughts? 27.5+?


https://www.canyon.com/en-us/mountain-bikes/trail-bikes/spectral/


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

The winner is ……

I started this thread in June, I believe. My search was narrowed to Santa Cruz. I like Santa Cruz. I like my LBS. My LBS is a Santa Cruz dealer. Yes, plenty of other excellent choices but I wanted to make this a rational search.

Bikes ruled out - Megatower and Hightower V2. The Megatower felt like too much bike. The Hightower reminded me of the Megatower and also felt both heavy and large even in my size. Frankly, I was surprised because on paper, at least, the Hightower should have been my first choice but it wasn't.

Favorites - Bronson in both + and regular tires. I'm a fan of 27.5 and like how nimble that size feels to me.

Winner - Surprise. I really like the new Tallboy V4. It felt light and nimble or playful. Though my current fork is 140 mm, I find I never use more then 110 mm so the 130 mm on the Tallboy would be fine. The rear on my 5010 V1 is 125 mm and that presents no issues and I didn't have any with the 120 mm rear on the Tallboy. I like the new geometry much better than the Tallboy V3.

What am I going to do? Who really knows? I don't intend to purchase anything until April 2020 but, like my wife pointed out, I usually take a year to study what is available and demo, demo, demo. I've studied and demo'ed to death.

Attractive option - Keep my current 5010, put a 2.5" tire on the front which will fit the Pike, switch the drive train to a 1 x 12 (its now a 2 x 10), save a lot of money and keep going. I've found that I can really improve any bike by dropping the psi in the tires to 23 lbs. Even though I weight 200 lbs., I've experience no problems with that pressure and all the bikes I've tried feel much better set up that way.

Enjoy the day. It's just beginning on the east coast and looks like another beauty.
REV


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^Hit 50° here last night, neighbors are warming up their trucks this morning.  The riding is soo sweet right now, sunny 70° days, no dust. 

You will end up ss rigid running 18/20 psi in a few years so plan for that. A custom steel frame is de rigueur. Paul's your uncle.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Been riding custom steel for 17 years. IF is the name. 64 degrees at the moment.

Rode the past five days straight and spent all day yesterday riding demo's. I'm beat. I eased back today and just went to the gym and did a multi mile power walk with TurboB!tch.

We leave for Hawaii a week from tomorrow and by the time we get back to the Garden State in November, it will be ski season and the bikes will be put to rest while the skis wake up.

I will spend the winter skiing and dreaming of new bikes.

Life is good......


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

YJ Bill said:


> all the cool guys are riding 29ers. Lots of improvements in geometry.


I refuse to be cool!

Well, sorta lying, I got a 29er and a 27.5, the 27.5 makes me feel young again, my 29er is for business


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

You've got me by ~20 years, so my contribution will likely not be worth much.

Then again, I tortured myself repeatedly when chasing (more often being chased by) endurance racing demons in my 20's and 30's. Did a lot of irreparable damage to my joints, nerves, etc... Not sure if I feel like I'm 70, but I don't think I'm that far off.

I still ride a bit, but I need a very particular feel in order to be able to get up and go to work the next day, much less be able to ride 2 days in a row.

I get that feel with 29+ FS.

There aren't many options out there. Search out a demo if it sounds intriguing.


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