# Preworkout before a big ride?



## Yootah (Jun 30, 2017)

Just curious if anybody else has tried this, and what your results were. I've tried twice, using C4, and each time I've felt like crap and had to cut the ride short. I'm considering trying another brand, but I'm curious if anyone else uses preworkout energy boosters for long "workout" rides and how that works out for you.

- editing the OP because I'm trying to get out in front of this:
I'm not asking how to ride faster or ride farther or what you eat or how you fuel, everyone has an opinion on that and I appreciate the input but that's not what this thread is for. Please do not post what you eat before a ride in this thread.

I'm specifically interested in knowing if anyone else has used preworkout in front of a high output ride and what your results were. It's marketed to weightlifters and such and I am wondering if my results are typical of using the stuff before sustained cardio/climbing.


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## Thumper87 (Aug 1, 2017)

What do you consider long work out rides? I wouldn't mess with c4 before a ride or before even a gym session. I would toss that junk in the trash can. A well balanced carb heavy meal 2-3 hrs before a ride and then maybe a small snack right before is usually fine for me. I personally like oats with some protein powder, a healthy fat, banana, blueberries whatever. If you do not have that much time before you ride I usually go with something simple, just a banana, sometimes a piece of toast with jelly and a banana, etc. I think what you maybe missing is fueling during the rides? Are you taking in any carbs during your ride? If not, depending on intensity and duration I would start with 30-40 grams per hour and work up to 60 grams an hour. For hours 4-6 hrs I make sure to get some proteins and fats in as well, nothing wrong with fueling with real food. I love just PB&J on white bread during all day adventures.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Not sure what a workout ride is for you, but anything under 2 hours I go fasted. Pre-workout concoctions and carb loading are not necessary. If I do eat breakfast, it's something like eggs and bacon/sausage. Carb heavy meals will only cause unhealthy sugar spikes that have adverse affects on energy levels (for me atleast).

EDIT: Also, if you start to use that pre-workout crap, you're going to rely on it.


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## Thumper87 (Aug 1, 2017)

GKelley said:


> Not sure what a workout ride is for you, but anything under 2 hours I go fasted. Pre-workout concoctions and carb loading are not necessary. If I do eat breakfast, it's something like eggs and bacon/sausage. Carb heavy meals will only cause unhealthy sugar spikes that have adverse affects on energy levels (for me atleast).


Fruit and complex carbs are unhealthy compared to bacon/sausage?


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Thumper87 said:


> Fruit and complex carbs are unhealthy compared to bacon/sausage?


Context. For a sub 2 hour ride, meh. I'd probably just have yoghurt for breakfast before it. Longer rides, then sure.


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## louiesquared (6 mo ago)

Thumper87 said:


> Fruit and complex carbs are unhealthy compared to bacon/sausage?


Yes. Absolutely. Fat and Protein. Humans survived for thousands of years without fruit and complex carbs.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Thumper87 said:


> Fruit and complex carbs are unhealthy compared to bacon/sausage?


Yes


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## mrpizza (Jun 2, 2013)

Thumper87 said:


> I love just PB&J on white bread during all day adventures.


I almost always eat a PB&J before a big ride (20+ miles) Sometimes I throw a third piece of bread in the mix and make it a double decker.


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## Yootah (Jun 30, 2017)

I cycle on and off keto. I think there's a time and place for all sorts of macros in a balanced diet, and I'd appreciate it if we could steer away from fighting about which is better or whether supplements are useful. I'm not asking how to ride faster or ride farther or how to fuel, everyone has an opinion on that and I appreciate the input but that's not what this thread is for.

I'm specifically interested in knowing if anyone else has used preworkout in front of a high output ride and what your results were. It's marketed to weightlifters and such and I am wondering if my results are typical of using the stuff before sustained cardio/climbing.


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## GJmtnbike (Nov 27, 2017)

I usually eat light before rides, something like a english muffin, breakfast sandwich, a couple of hard boiled eggs, or a banana. During a ride I usually have some fruit, and/or energy chews.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

for 2 hour races I like to eat ham/eggs & potatoes fried in olive oil about 2.5 hours before, or a decent size breakfast buritto. & maybe a gel shortly before start. For 4 hour+ races, I've finished breakfast burritos on the start line, and then just roll into the pace nice and easy, that has worked well for me. I also like drinking a cytomax type drink in the 90 min before start. I kind of like the bcca drinks, but I also like a couple of tablespoons of apple cider vinegar with lemon and cranberry juices. A spoonful of hemp hearts seems good too if I'm feeling like breakfast 2-3 hours earlier wasn't enough.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Yootah said:


> I cycle on and off keto. I think there's a time and place for all sorts of macros in a balanced diet, and I'd appreciate it if we could steer away from fighting about which is better or whether supplements are useful. I'm not asking how to ride faster or ride farther or how to fuel, everyone has an opinion on that and I appreciate the input but that's not what this thread is for.
> 
> I'm specifically interested in knowing if anyone else has used preworkout in front of a high output ride and what your results were. It's marketed to weightlifters and such and I am wondering if my results are typical of using the stuff before sustained cardio/climbing.


I've used caffeine and pre-workout before the gym. But lifting raises your HR in spurts with time to recover. Caffeine and amphetamines reduce the feeling of fatigue. I wouldn't use them for long periods of elevated HR they're counter proactive.

If you want to try something pre-ride low caffeine and stimulates (under 40mg of caffeine) L-Tarine, Beta-Aline, rhodiloa, and cortyceps (should be taken daily. Are good to do some research on. Buy them separately not a pre package product.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

louiesquared said:


> Yes. Absolutely. Fat and Protein. Humans survived for thousands of years without fruit and complex carbs.


Source?


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## Yootah (Jun 30, 2017)

Nat said:


> Source?


Please don't, man. We can start another thread if you all wanna fight about paleo and keto.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Unlike most mammals, we lack the gene to create vitamin C, since we've always gotten that from fruit.


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## louiesquared (6 mo ago)

Nat said:


> Source?


History. Fruit trees are not native to a lot of areas with evidence of early humans. They ate animals mostly. And when I say animals, they ate nearly all of the animal. There is incredible nutritional value in organ meat. They also ate nuts and berries which are low in carbs and sugars. Many modern indigenous cultures still eat this way.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

I've stopped with caffeine before rides. I find that my heart rate is elevated too high, for too long and I end up burning out quicker. As someone else mentioned, at the gym it's a different story where you have maximal efforts followed by comparatively long rest periods. This is just me though, but I feel a lot better during and after the ride if I delay the caffeine a bit and otherwise just eat some oats and protein pre-ride.


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## louiesquared (6 mo ago)

dysfunction said:


> Unlike most mammals, we lack the gene to create vitamin C, since we've always gotten that from fruit.


When you take sugar and carbs out of your diet your body needs les vitamin c and meat and fish have enough to keep you from being deficient.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Yootah said:


> Please don't, man. We can start another thread if you all wanna fight about paleo and keto.


LOL. I wasn't but now I kinda feel like it...


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

dysfunction said:


> Unlike most mammals, we lack the gene to create vitamin C, since we've always gotten that from fruit.


Source: science?


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Nat said:


> LOL. I wasn't but now I kinda feel like it...


It's like an argument over religion.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Nat said:


> Source: science?


Most recently? PBS Eons. But I've read it in journals previously.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

dysfunction said:


> Unlike most mammals, we lack the gene to create vitamin C, since we've always gotten that from fruit.


Lighty cooked and raw meat has Vit-C as well. But IMHO keto with some fruit sparingly (around intense activity) is the ideal diet.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Cerberus75 said:


> Lighty cooked and raw meat has Vit-C as well. But IMHO keto with some fruit sparingly (around intense activity) is the ideal diet.


From the couple digs I've worked on.. fruit was in the trash a couple thousand years ago. As were grains. But whatever.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Fruit and grains are a great resource for fattening up to survive a winter. The problem these days is, we're eating that stuff year-round on a daily basis. The poison is in the dose.


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## justriddinalog (Sep 8, 2020)

Yup. I use C4, ironically. I put 100mg of caffeine in each bottle I use along with 100 grams of dextrose. I also add extra beta alanine to my scoop of C4. The compounds in C4 likely to help would be caffeine, beta alanine, B12. Evidence supporting caffeine use for performance enhancement in strength and endurance sports is unanimous, you just need to figure out how much and how often for you personally. I have been involved in strength sports and powerlifting since the late 90s, started mtb in 2012. For me it seemed like a no brainer.


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## justriddinalog (Sep 8, 2020)

And Keto sucks


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## Swolie74 (11 mo ago)

Depends on what your definition of a “big ride” is. I haven’t used traditional preworkout before a ride, however I have used ECA stacks before. Ultimately there’s extremely high risk of dehydration with heavy stim’s. I have debated trying to make my own “endurance” preworkout aka bunch of Vasodialators (beet root extract, beta alanine), moderate caffeine.. but if I’m really stressing my body for several hours, that’s gotta be pretty rough on the kidneys. I used to be really into building my own supplements but have gotten lazy in my old age


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## acedeuce802 (Jun 30, 2017)

Not about pre-workout, but good info about caffeine specifically as a pre-ride supplement


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

I drink a Starbucks 16oz iced coffee in the can before the warm up.


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## wolfmw (Dec 18, 2020)

Yootah said:


> I cycle on and off keto. I think there's a time and place for all sorts of macros in a balanced diet, and I'd appreciate it if we could steer away from fighting about which is better or whether supplements are useful. I'm not asking how to ride faster or ride farther or how to fuel, everyone has an opinion on that and I appreciate the input but that's not what this thread is for.
> 
> I'm specifically interested in knowing if anyone else has used preworkout in front of a high output ride and what your results were. It's marketed to weightlifters and such and I am wondering if my results are typical of using the stuff before sustained cardio/climbing.


I had a can of some preworkout stuff someone gave me, I think it was some variation of C4. I tried it a few times before lifting, didn't notice any difference. I tried it once before a ride (short, but intense workout type ride) and my body did not appreciate it. Threw it away after that.

Most of those type of supplements are basically creatine and caffeine with some bro science stuff mixed in. Maybe you could get some benefit from the caffeine if that's your thing, but the creatine is just likely to result in dehydration and cramping if you make it that far without your guts exploding.


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## ballisticexchris (Jun 14, 2016)

I eat a healthy breakfast of granola, almond milk, some kind of bread product and turkey sausage or Morningstar bacon before my morning ride. I fill up my water bottle with Pedialyte sport and take a few b12 gummies along with a scoop of C4 original mixed in water. I then throw my Camelback pack on and ride. 

Total pre ride calories are about 550-600. I'm good for over 2 hours on the trail without bonking.


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

Back in my triathlon days, I tried pre-workout before a few long brick days and one race. In all cases I ended up having issues. My experience was that it was fine for the hour or so it lasts but then there was a low after that was difficult to dig out of. It also made me extra thirsty.

Now I use a no-caffeine pre workout on gym days. It's probably mostly a placebo effect without the heavy dose of stimulant though.


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## abeckstead (Feb 29, 2012)

TLDR
Pre-workout on the left and Recovery on the right 
GIT ER DONE


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## Dom "The Flying Rhino" (Feb 5, 2021)

Yootah - as you can clearly see from all the responses, you have your answer! No one really used Pre-Workout Supplements for cycling. I tried it and got sick. Cycling is about efficient use of glycogen and fat stores, being metabolically flexible. Not about pumped up, inflamed body builders.


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## angieri918 (Apr 1, 2020)

For me I’ve noticed better results drinking a complex carb drink before long rides or race day.


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## Yootah (Jun 30, 2017)

Dom "The Flying Rhino" said:


> No one really used Pre-Workout Supplements for cycling. I tried it and got sick.


Seems like that's the majority response, yeah. I get a mad energy rush drinking the C4 in a can, way different than normal Rockstar/Red Bull type drinks. I'll avoid if before rides though.


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## dsciulli19 (Apr 14, 2014)

to answer your question directly, yes I have used pre-workout supplements before a big ride, but for me it was mostly to take the "edge" off of a morning workout. In my teens and early 20s my body did not do well with early morning workouts, be it weightlifting, early morning hockey tournament games, or bike rides. (not associated with drinking). I don't know what it was, but would just feel like crap no matter how good of shape I was in. So I would use a scoop or 2 of preworkout to help get me through the initial stages of the morning ride to where I didn't feel like I was going to puke. 

Also, it helped that back then I had a few containers of the original formula of Jack3d, which is no longer sold due to containing DMAA. But it worked like nobody's business. Also have used N.O. Xplode. 

Nowadays I just make sure I have a cup or 2 of coffee in me and a light breakfast prior to the ride.


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## Swolie74 (11 mo ago)

dsciulli19 said:


> Also, it helped that back then I had a few containers of the original formula of Jack3d, which is no longer sold due to containing DMAA. But it worked like nobody's business. Also have used N.O. Xplode.


aaaaaaah, tales will be told of the original Jack3d, 1'3 DMAA is a beautiful beast.... When it got banned I bought a large container of straight pharmaceutical grade 1'3 DMAA it through a bulk supplier, eventually it got stolen (I think by a former room mate) but man I loved that stuff. Kinda like the old preworkouts that had ephedra in it.... siiiiigh


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## dsciulli19 (Apr 14, 2014)

Swolie74 said:


> aaaaaaah, tales will be told of the original Jack3d, 1'3 DMAA is a beautiful beast.... When it got banned I bought a large container of straight pharmaceutical grade 1'3 DMAA it through a bulk supplier, eventually it got stolen (I think by a former room mate) but man I loved that stuff. Kinda like the old preworkouts that had ephedra in it.... siiiiigh



That stuff had you ready to run through a brick wall. Perfectly healthy I'm sure. Shame they had to change it


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Swolie74 said:


> aaaaaaah, tales will be told of the original Jack3d, 1'3 DMAA is a beautiful beast.... When it got banned I bought a large container of straight pharmaceutical grade 1'3 DMAA it through a bulk supplier, eventually it got stolen (I think by a former room mate) but man I loved that stuff. Kinda like the old preworkouts that had ephedra in it.... siiiiigh


1'3 DMAA is very close to crystal meth chemically lol. Ephedrine can still be bought with ID at a pharmacy. It definitely is a PED opens up the lungs but the crash is terrible.


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## Swolie74 (11 mo ago)

Cerberus75 said:


> 1'3 DMAA is very close to crystal meth chemically lol. Ephedrine can still be bought with ID at a pharmacy. It definitely is a PED opens up the lungs but the crash is terrible.


Sadly Arizona just changed, you need an RX now  .... kinda shitty because a year ago Bronkaid reformulated and it's not nearly as strong as it used to be, I think they switched to the same compound Primatene uses. I love an ECA stack for weight loss (I skip it before long rides because I don't want to stress my kidneys anymore than I already will be), but now I need to find something else because I doubt my primary will write a prescription for my intended use.


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## Mike Aswell (Sep 1, 2009)

Even if you just limit this question to caffeine, people are going to argue. I know some racers that use it even during (meaning throughout) races. And I know some people who hate it and swear it's not useful and counterproductive.

As to pre workout...I'm not a big fan but I have used it once or twice before a ride. My biggest concerns would be:

1. If you really are going big and demanding with your ride, at some point it creates the potential for a crash.
2. There's no question you are elevating your heart rate, which can potentially be problematic.
3. Last but really not least, for me personally, that crap (no pun) wrecks my stomach about thirty minutes after I drink it and the last thing I want to do is be dealing with that in the woods on a ride....


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## 2sharp7 (Aug 29, 2013)

I have been using pre-workout (Mtn Ops Yeti) before most rides and runs lately (as well as weight training sessions), regardless of how long / hard of a work out is planned. I sometimes "think" I notice a benefit to it in the beginning, but I definitely have not noticed any detriment at all. I also hydrate during rides with (Mtn Ops Enduro, or something similar).
Having said all that, I'm not really sold on supplements in general and have just been using them because it seems like you're "supposed" to. I'm about to run out of some of my supply and plan on going without for a couple of months to see if I notice a difference.


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## G-Choro (Jul 30, 2010)

abeckstead said:


> TLDR
> Pre-workout on the left and Recovery on the right
> GIT ER DONE
> View attachment 2001133


This is the correct answer!


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## Dom "The Flying Rhino" (Feb 5, 2021)

Yootah said:


> Seems like that's the majority response, yeah. I get a mad energy rush drinking the C4 in a can, way different than normal Rockstar/Red Bull type drinks. I'll avoid if before rides though.


I think it's more for the "pump" and "extra post inflammation" that bodybuilders crave. PS. I also got AFIB from using Ephedra before Ice Hockey games! (Not Worth It)


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## justriddinalog (Sep 8, 2020)

Swolie74 said:


> aaaaaaah, tales will be told of the original Jack3d, 1'3 DMAA is a beautiful beast.... When it got banned I bought a large container of straight pharmaceutical grade 1'3 DMAA it through a bulk supplier, eventually it got stolen (I think by a former room mate) but man I loved that stuff. Kinda like the old preworkouts that had ephedra in it.... siiiiigh


I remember when ephedrine was in every pre workout. Talk about the jitters, LOL.


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## AEyogi (Nov 19, 2021)

I consistently eat the same food pre-workout independent of the length or difficulty of the ride. Something different is just going to mess up my guts/ poop schedule/ energy levels, for example, too many carbs too early and I can crash. Only exception is when I do a fasted workout to build my metabolic flexibility. For long rides, I just bring more snacks, but mostly rely on my stored glycogen and triglycerides.


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## ballisticexchris (Jun 14, 2016)

AEyogi said:


> I consistently eat the same food pre-workout independent of the length or difficulty of the ride. Something different is just going to mess up my guts/ poop schedule/ energy levels, for example, too many carbs too early and I can crash. Only exception is when I do a fasted workout to build my metabolic flexibility. For long rides, I just bring more snacks, but mostly rely on my stored glycogen and triglycerides.


I have been wondering about that by doing a pre breakfast ride. I keep bail out foods just in case. Still seems a little shaky to go over 12 hours fasting and do a 2 hour ride on nothing but water. Maybe at 20 years old but not 61.


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## AEyogi (Nov 19, 2021)

ballisticexchris said:


> I have been wondering about that by doing a pre breakfast ride. I keep bail out foods just in case. Still seems a little shaky to go over 12 hours fasting and do a 2 hour ride on nothing but water. Maybe at 20 years old but not 61.


The more you do it the easier it gets, I suggest building up slowly. For me, it has really helped with long rides, and overall health. As I understand it, you are building the metabolic machinery to handle triglycerides as a source of fuel for your muscles. Therefore the benefit is proportional to how unpleasant it is.


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## BigJZ74 (Jul 18, 2010)

Swolie74 said:


> aaaaaaah, tales will be told of the original Jack3d, 1'3 DMAA is a beautiful beast.... When it got banned I bought a large container of straight pharmaceutical grade 1'3 DMAA it through a bulk supplier, eventually it got stolen (I think by a former room mate) but man I loved that stuff. Kinda like the old preworkouts that had ephedra in it.... siiiiigh


LOL, I used to order Pharmaceutical grade ephedrine in 1000 tab bottles in the late 80's, early 90's, used ECA stacks etc, ephedrine before football games...halftime. Gym, powerlifting Long before anyone new what it was...when it was an underground Gym thing.


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## dsciulli19 (Apr 14, 2014)

ballisticexchris said:


> I have been wondering about that by doing a pre breakfast ride. I keep bail out foods just in case. Still seems a little shaky to go over 12 hours fasting and do a 2 hour ride on nothing but water. Maybe at 20 years old but not 61.



You could have a "before bed" snack so when you wake up you have something in the tank, I try to do that since I'm usually training before work from 430-530.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Depends on the nature of the workout. Is it low intensity base riding? Or are we talking about a race or fast group ride where you will be above your aerobic threshold? Fasted or low carb before the ride does stimulate more fat burning especially if the duration is 2 hours or less. So it's probably a good strategy during base season. But for longer rides, it also increases stress in the body and may impede recovery. Usually when I go 3 hours plus even low intensity, I will take some carbs 2.5 hours in but usually not more than 70grams. For faster rides, it's simple....carb the f*k up. That is if we want to keep up. I have not met a single fast guy who is keto 24/7, 365.

Edit: My last comment about eating carbs only applies to folks who are reasonable fit and don't have metabolic issues. I understand folks are at different places and maybe riding at high intensity all the time is not a great idea for folks who have health issues. Zone 2 riding is probably best for health purposes. Intensity really shouldn't be introduced until you have a decent base and sufficient mitochondria.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

tick_magnet said:


> Depends on the nature of the workout. Is it low intensity base riding? Or are we talking about a race or fast group ride where you will be above your aerobic threshold? Fasted or low carb before the ride does stimulate more fat burning especially if the duration is 2 hours or less. So it's probably a good strategy during base season. But for longer rides, it also increases stress in the body and may impede recovery. Usually when I go 3 hours plus even low intensity, I will take some carbs 2.5 hours in but usually not more than 70grams. For faster rides, it's simple....carb the f*k up. That is if we want to keep up. I have not met a single fast guy who is keto 24/7, 365.
> 
> Edit: My last comment about eating carbs only applies to folks who are reasonable fit and don't have metabolic issues. I understand folks are at different places and maybe riding at high intensity all the time is not a great idea for folks who have health issues. Zone 2 riding is probably best for health purposes. Intensity really shouldn't be introduced until you have a decent base and sufficient mitochondria.


I'm fat adapted. I can do zone 2 for 3-4 hours fasted. But longer or harder I'll used some carbs if hitting zone 3 or higher. I don't bonk I just get slower when the run out. Constant zone 3+ keto will catabolize muscle tissue.


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## ballisticexchris (Jun 14, 2016)

Cerberus75 said:


> I'm fat adapted. I can do zone 2 for 3-4 hours fasted. But longer or harder I'll used some carbs if hitting zone 3 or higher. I don't bonk I just get slower when the run out. Constant zone 3+ keto will catabolize muscle tissue.


I have to ask the age of some of you guys that workout to the extreme. Just from reading some of these comments I'm imagining most of you are in your 30's to 40's. 

I cannot imagine even a reasonably fit guy in his 60's fasting like that and not collapsing or bonking after a few hours.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Cerberus75 said:


> I'm fat adapted. I can do zone 2 for 3-4 hours fasted. But longer or harder I'll used some carbs if hitting zone 3 or higher. I don't bonk I just get slower when the run out. Constant zone 3+ keto will catabolize muscle tissue.


The muscle catabolizing is a really important point for the folks on keto to consider. Also post workout, you need carbs with your protein. Amino acid uptake requires insulin.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

ballisticexchris said:


> I have to ask the age of some of you guys that workout to the extreme. Just from reading some of these comments I'm imagining most of you are in your 30's to 40's.
> 
> I cannot imagine even a reasonably fit guy in his 60's fasting like that and not collapsing or bonking after a few hours.


It usually only takes a couple rides to get fat adapted for long rides. I remember when I used to do intermittent fasting self-experiments and I would do long low intensity rides after a 12-13 hour fast. It was brutal the first couple sessions but by the third it honestly felt no different from regular rides.

But as pointed out above, you really have to be careful with your nutrition to prevent muscle loss and I imagine that will accelerate as you age.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

ballisticexchris said:


> I have to ask the age of some of you guys that workout to the extreme. Just from reading some of these comments I'm imagining most of you are in your 30's to 40's.
> 
> I cannot imagine even a reasonably fit guy in his 60's fasting like that and not collapsing or bonking after a few hours.


I'm 47 it took a while to build the fasted stamina. And once you’ve fat adapted you don't really bonk. You have to eat keto most of the time to achieve this. I use glucose sparingly on hard days. And I can feel when it runs out but never crashes I just tend to slow down.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

tick_magnet said:


> The muscle catabolizing is a really important point for the folks on keto to consider. Also post workout, you need carbs with your protein. Amino acid uptake requires insulin.


Once in keto protein synthesis will happen without carbs post workout. There's an insulin response with protein. It's not enough to override cortisone under long bouts of anaerobic work. You could lift in the gym and be fine. But a really hard ride will cause cortisone to break down muscle tissue to convert into glucose since the body cannot create ketone fast enough. The body does gradually get better at this and you will require less carbs.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

I tend to agree that there are ways to make it work on keto, but my biggest problem with any diet that is this restrictive (and I say this about veganism as well) is that you are always on the razor's edge and it's really easy to screw it up. 

I just know so many people who have suffered muscle catabolization on keto, which leads to numerous soft tissue injuries. A couple of buddies mine are constantly injured since adopting keto. They used to be fast. Now they only ride easy for fear of injury and because they experience "dead legs" all the time. The LA Lakers around 2013-2014 suffered record numbers of games lost due to player injury after hiring Cate Shanahan as a nutritionist. Kobe who was a durable guy his entire career couldn't stay healthy after that. People attributed to age, but the problem is the injury bug plagued the whole team including many rookies. 

Getting a more balanced diet and not being on keto all the time is more protective for more people more often. That said, like I said, I do use low carb strategically. I train low when I am time constrained. I tend to do low carb training more on the bike than when I run because the pounding on the body and soft tissues in the leg means I want a little more protection from soft issue injuries.


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