# How bad are department store bikes?



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

Hello everyone!
I am currently looking to replace my current bike which I have owned since the age of 10. It's a random cheap 24" Sportek mountain bike with a 14" frame bought for around $90 about 9 years ago. It has so many problems and it's way, way to cramped for me.

I am looking for another mountain bike, since I could start riding my local trails some time soon. Nothing too crazy, just the beginner trails at a national park nearby. To be honest, I have never been there by bike, so I can't describe exactly what the terrain is like, but I can tell you that it is a typical forest that is slightly mountainous and relatively hilly.

The thing is that I'm on a limited budget. I can't be spending $1000 on a bike when I am not even sure I'll keep riding on the trails a few months from now. I have taken a look at the more high-end bikes at Canadian Tire and found one that seems decent to me: CCM Alpha 29" Full Suspension Mountain Bike | Canadian Tire
I have read that bikes from stores like these are not good, but, according to the sticker, it was $600...with a couple Shimano parts. Would this bike be decent for someone like me looking to start off mountain biking to see if I like it? If not, what would you guys suggest given that I absolutely cannot spend more than $400 (not a penny more), I'd prefer around $300. If it's any help, I'm around 5'10" and weigh 135 lbs.


----------



## legalyaker (Jun 2, 2014)

Don't know anything about that bike but if I were you I would look at bikesdirect.com and would be looking at a hard tail.


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

Wow, the bikes at bikesdirect.com are quite affordable. Yeah, I think I should lean towards a hardtail... not many good full suspension bikes fit in my price range. Do you have any suggestions for a $300-$400 on bikesdirect.com. Since there is no tax I think... I could go up to maybe $450 or $480. But I live in Canada, does anybady have any experience shipping to Canada?


----------



## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

If I had a budget under $500 I would look at the single speed section. To be honest, anything below $600 starts to be sketchy in terms of shifters and derailleurs in particular. Spend your budget on something with less parts, and the parts it has will be better.


----------



## Desertride (Nov 1, 2012)

At that price I would just go and buy a used bike from a reputable brand. Or see if your local bike shops have some old 26" hardtails they are willing to deeply discount.

By the way, there is a beginners forum...


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

Desertride said:


> At that price I would just go and buy a used bike from a reputable brand. Or see if your local bike shops have some old 26" hardtails they are willing to deeply discount.
> 
> By the way, there is a beginners forum...


Yes, sorry, I didn't notice I posted in the wrong forum up until now. Thanks for pointing that out.

So I looked around on Craigslist and Kijiji, but most used bikes in my area are either old Supercycle bikes selling for around $100 or crazy expensive ones around $1000. I'll try to visit my LBS sometime this week to see what they have. Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

Seems like you've moved past the department store bike idea, but just to elaborate on that... My shop has a 'department store tune up' that they provide. It is basically the cost to do _anything_ to a department store bike. It's $120.

The reasoning is that those bikes are always a hassle to work on, so the high cost of the tune up covers any unforeseen problems (which are apparently super common on these bikes). That should give you a good idea of the quality of those bikes.


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

That does make sense. I did feel that there must be something sketchy with these bikes. What do you guys think of these bikes? 2004 cannondale gemini | mountain | Ottawa | Kijiji and Velo de montagne Iron Horse | mountain | Gatineau | Kijiji. If the first one is decent, I'll try and offer around $350.


----------



## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

If you've got a lot of freetime (aka student over summer break), buy a big box store bike or find a used bike that you like. Buy a couple bike specific tools (chain breaker, spanner wrench, chain whip, cassette tool, bottom bracket tool) or a introductory bike tool kit. Take the bike apart, and put it back together. Especially useful on a cheap bike you picked up at a thrift store or garage sale. You'll learn a lot and you won't be afraid to tear into a better bike. 

I've heard some people say they get the bikesdirect bikes shipped to a UPS store near the border, and then drive over to the US to pick it up. I think you'd have better luck getting a used bike that can have new parts put on it as time goes by. I looked up bikes available on the canadian walmart and amazon webpages, and they really are quite bad and overpriced. I'm sure you can find a better online bikestore that deals specifically with Canada.


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

Ideally, buying a bike from bikesdirect and picking it up across the border would be great, but I don't think my parents will understand. They don't see why I would neec to go to such lengths to buy a bike, so I don't think they'll let me borrow their car to drive across the border. 

I could actually take my old (current) bike apart for learning purposes. I like that idea. I actually had to repair a chain that broke going uphill offroad yesterday!


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

So, I went to test the bike from Canadian Tire mentioned initially, just by curiosity, I didn't have the intention of buying it. I had done a bit more research about bikes, so I really felt the bike was not of good quality. To add to that, the chain went off the smallest cog when I tried to shift it. That really made what you guys told me sink in.

So, before I go shopping for used bikes at my LBSs, I posted two links for two used bikes I found that caught my attention earlier. If any of these two are adequate for me, that'd save lots of time and going back and forth. (Either a 2004 Cannnondale Gemini for $400 or an Iron Horse Yakuza Aniki for $325) I'm not quite sure if these are appropriate for the type of riding I'll be doing. If none of these are decent, I'll go to my LBSs.


----------



## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

one of those is an XL and the other looks to be an XL. That's a rather large bike for someone who is 5'10". Ideally, look for a medium or large bike that has disc brakes and is a hard tail. Those bikes are long travel and will be extremely heavy. they might be good bikes, but not for beginner trails. they would be fun to jump off stuff, but not for climbing long hills. If you can't find something with disc brakes, just get a good bike with rim brakes and a front shock. Nothing too fancy, but you can fix it up, ride it, trash it, and really not be out anything. some of these are a litle overpriced, but it looks like you might not have a lot of options. In reality, just buy a bike that fits. even if it's ungodly cheap, it'll be better than a 24" bike.

Oryx Mountain Bike | mountain | Ottawa | Kijiji
[USED] 50cm/Medium Raleigh 21 speed | mountain | Ottawa | Kijiji
Barely Used Mountain Bike | mountain | Ottawa | Kijiji


----------



## Pike14 (Mar 22, 2011)

Check in to any local bike clubs and/or shops. Some shops will offer a kind of "swap sale" where customers can bring in and sell used bikes. I'd also have a look at ebay, craigslist, etc. for good deals. If you're patient and flexible you might be able to find a good deal there.

The major issue with department store bikes is that they use very low quality materials and are ofter assembled by very low quality mechanics. You might think you're getting a good deal, but in reality you'll wind up spending more money in the long run trying to either keep it together or getting so frustrated you wind up just going out and getting a bike from a more reputable shop. 

Be patient and look for a good deal-they're out there to be had. Good luck!


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

Thanks! I am actively looking on local classifieds sites. I do have a bit of time to find a bike, but the earlier the better, since the bike I have now is unrideable except for short commutes and errands following the little mishap I had with my chain this week. 

Thanks for bringing up that "swap sale", which I could use. I don't know how much my bike is worth really... probably not more than $40. Still better than nothing!

watts888, thanks for the suggestions. I liked that second link you posted. I put it in my "list of contenders".


----------



## Bentwrench (Apr 27, 2015)

richghost15 said:


> Ideally, buying a bike from bikesdirect and picking it up across the border would be great, but I don't think my parents will understand. They don't see why I would neec to go to such lengths to buy a bike, so I don't think they'll let me borrow their car to drive across the border.
> 
> I could actually take my old (current) bike apart for learning purposes. I like that idea. I actually had to repair a chain that broke going uphill offroad yesterday!


 You're willing to learn the art of the wrench,,,cool !

In reading your posts my guess is four wheels may move your body but two wheels moves your soul.

My advice is to save you money for a decent bike.

In the mean time for something to ride don't overlook the pawnshops garage sales, yard sales etc. Word of mouth can sometimes lead to a free bike(s).

What you learn self educating with your old bike can be applied to the temporary ride to make it work, function smoother and last a wee bit longer.

Riding and wrenching a storemart bike on the cheap can be a fun adventure on it's own but do not let it deter you from you goal.

Once you have experienced riding a very good bike built right from quality parts you will see things a little differently and also know exactly why storemart bikes never compare.

Edit

My partial answer to your original question, "how bad ?"

Soft bearings, soft bearing races, soft steel in the poorly designed derailleurs, variable tolerances, loose clearances, low grade plastics in places where higher grades would better serve, parts cast from low grade aluminum, frames not square true or plumb, axles and crank and head bearings to tight or too loose not greased enough and not greased with good grease, poor assembly and poor set up.


----------



## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Just looking at the same store that the OP initially listed. There is a 26" and 29er bike that are worth looking at. Price is acceptable for new, but these should be the lowest you'd want to look at in regards to components. If I were to buy one, I'd get the schwinn 29er. And in regards to the chain coming off the bike you test rode, that's just part of the derailure set-up. It's super easy to adjust, once you learn how. Don't be afraid to ask questions and watch youtube videos on derailure adjustment and disc brake setup. Buy the 29er, fix up the 24" bike, sell it, and ride/fix the 29er as you go.

Schwinn Talik 29" Hardtail Mountain Bike | Canadian Tire

CCM Incline Men's 26" Hardtail Mountain Bike | Canadian Tire


----------



## RobLyman (May 8, 2006)

I'll second the bikesdirect suggestion and the single speed suggestion...if SS works for you.

I bought a bikesdirect Gravity G29 to try out a 29er and single speed. I rode that bike for a year and replaced the chain once. I sold it after a year and got $200 for it. Basically, I rented the bike for a year for $150 andf the cost of a chain. I put over 1000 miles on it! BikesDirect has great prices for bikes that are at the the lower end of "Good Bikes". They are definitely better than big box store bikes and have decent components.

Of course I did end up selling the bikesdirect bike after a year, but I got good use out of it and it allowed me to figure out what I really wanted. My next bike was a similar sized carbon hardtail single speed that cost about $2000 to build. The new bike has about 3000 miles on it so far. I have upgraded the seat and chain ring and replaced the chain twice.

If you ride more than a few hundred miles a year, you'll want to upgrade to better components and/or frame. If you ride 200 miles or less a year a bikesdirect or similar bike will probably be fine.


----------



## nightvisionmiami (Dec 29, 2014)

There is another post here where someone actually was looking into the Forge bikes that Target is selling. Which the specs are actually not bad for what department stores usually sell.

Forge Mens Sawback 5xx 19" Mountain Bike - Charcoal : Target


----------



## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Have to remember this is for Canada. Crazy border taxes for stuff from the US. There was a post about $300 shipping for an airborn bike to Canada. Don't know why considering it's supposed to be a trade friendly country with the US.


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

watts888 said:


> Just looking at the same store that the OP initially listed. There is a 26" and 29er bike that are worth looking at. Price is acceptable for new, but these should be the lowest you'd want to look at in regards to components. If I were to buy one, I'd get the schwinn 29er. And in regards to the chain coming off the bike you test rode, that's just part of the derailure set-up. It's super easy to adjust, once you learn how. Don't be afraid to ask questions and watch youtube videos on derailure adjustment and disc brake setup. Buy the 29er, fix up the 24" bike, sell it, and ride/fix the 29er as you go.
> 
> Schwinn Talik 29" Hardtail Mountain Bike | Canadian Tire
> 
> CCM Incline Men's 26" Hardtail Mountain Bike | Canadian Tire


I tried out the 29er Schwinn when I was at the store. It did feel better than the CCM I initially looked at, but $400 + tax (sales taxes are a killer where I live)... it comes out very near $500. I can't spend that amount of money right now. That's mainly the reason why I'm now looking more towards used bikes for a good deal.


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

RobLyman said:


> I'll second the bikesdirect suggestion and the single speed suggestion...if SS works for you.
> 
> I bought a bikesdirect Gravity G29 to try out a 29er and single speed. I rode that bike for a year and replaced the chain once. I sold it after a year and got $200 for it. Basically, I rented the bike for a year for $150 andf the cost of a chain. I put over 1000 miles on it! BikesDirect has great prices for bikes that are at the the lower end of "Good Bikes". They are definitely better than big box store bikes and have decent components.
> 
> ...


I believe I ride more than a few hundred miles a year. Currently, I use my bike for riding around the city (not extraordinarily fast, just for a regular workout), sometimes for errands and sometimes have a little fun taking shortcuts through the woods. I'll keep using my bike for what I just mentioned, but I'll start hitting the trails soon. On a good day, I ride about 35 km or about 22 miles and I ride maybe 4 or 5 times a week. Sometimes, if I'm busy, I have to limit myself to 10 or 15 km. My bike makes these miles quite uncomfortable though, it's way too small, weighs a ton for its size and gear changes often don't execute (I tried adjusting the derailleurs, but I think either the front derailleur or a chainring is bent, not sure). I ride outside only when it's not winter, so about 7 months of the year.

I see bikesdirect has excellent deals and a great selection, but, being in Canada as watts888 said, it wouldn't be easy at all to import it here, not to mention expensive.


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

nightvisionmiami said:


> There is another post here where someone actually was looking into the Forge bikes that Target is selling. Which the specs are actually not bad for what department stores usually sell.
> 
> Forge Mens Sawback 5xx 19" Mountain Bike - Charcoal : Target


Target Canada closed down a little while ago, unfortunately. I haven't seen any Forge bikes in the department stores I looked at. Is this bike comparable spec-wise to the Schwinn watts888 posted?


----------



## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Dept. store bikes suffer mainly from 1) low quality components/frames and 2) piss-poor assembly. If you can fix #2 you can have a bike that is *ok* to fart around your neighborhood. These are not meant for "real" mountainbiking....but neither is a $400 bike from your LBS.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

TiGeo said:


> Dept. store bikes suffer mainly from 1) low quality components/frames and 2) piss-poor assembly. If you can fix #2 you can have a bike that is *ok* to fart around your neighborhood. These are not meant for "real" mountainbiking....but neither is a $400 bike from your LBS.


You forgot #3, which isn't present on ALL dept store bikes, but I see it commonly enough these days. #3 would be strange proprietary stuff that makes the bike "look" more expensive, but in reality makes it more of a pain to work on. The main culprit lately seems to be dept store Schwinns. Especially the hybrids. They're coming with deep v rims, with a campy-knockoff spoke lacing pattern (groups of 4 spokes spaced closely, then a larger gap between each group). And then, the rims are drilled for schraeder valves, but long valve stem schraeders are a pain in the a$$ to source.

I had a riding buddy in Texas who rode a dept store mtb. It was a hardtail. He couldn't afford a more expensive mtb (I even offered to sell him my old hardtail for something like $200 and he couldn't afford that) but he could wrench on his own bike. He kept it in better working order than I've seen from 95%+ of dept store bikes, and he'd replaced most of the super garbage components with stuff like Alivio and whatnot (because the stock parts pretty much disintegrated with the use he put them through), so it actually worked better than it did when new. He also didn't ride hard. He mostly rode it a handful of miles daily for commuting, and occasionally out on the local trails.

Where you REALLY run into problems with department store bikes is when the manufacturers try to make the bikes LOOK like they are more capable than they are, encouraging people to absolutely beat the ever living snot out of them. I have long thought that at the prices dept stores tend to sell bikes ($70-$300 or so), they would do better to SIMPLIFY their offerings, and offer better bikes for the uses that their buyers are ACTUALLY going to put the bikes through.

Big box sporting goods retailers are in a slightly different market. Their bikes tend to have a little overlap with the high end dept store bikes, and the low end bike shop bikes. You'll wind up with better components than what you'll find on a dept store bike in most cases, but you'll still most likely wind up with a shoddy build. Though that can be really hit-or-miss depending on who they actually hire to build the bikes. SOME people they hire know what they're doing. SOME people don't have the foggiest. These will still benefit from a complete disassembly and reassembly.


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

When I went to test the bikes at Canadian Tire, I noticed that the bikes barely sagged when I sat on them. The rear suspensions (when equipped) did not sag at all or a quarter inch at most, while the front suspensions consistently went down about half an inch. I don't know if those el-cheapo suspensions are adjustable. Maybe it's because I weigh only 135 lbs? I could get the front suspension to go down more by bouncing on the bike or pedalling hard off the saddle, but the rear suspension seemed very stiff. I've never ridden a bike with a good suspension, so I have no idea how they're supposed to behave. Is that normal?


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

At 135, you weigh less than the "average" person, and will therefore not sag entry level suspension much. Gotta figure, most people on an entry level bike are going to be clydes (200+) or kids.

On cheap suspension, adjustments are either nonexistent, or don't do much. The days of the serviceable coil spring fork where you can replace the spring with one that matches your riding weight (you plus all your gear), are practically over. To get good adjustment, you have to go to an air sprung fork, and to get that, you'll have to spend more than your budget.

There are still a few good coil rear shocks on the market that are tunable, but you won't find them on an xc bike. Frankly, don't even bother looking at full suspension bikes that cost less than $1,000. And from a practical standpoint, it's not worth buying one unless you want to spend even more. A good FS design adds a few hundred dollars to the cost of a comparably-equipped hardtail. So, a $1000 full suspension will have components very similar if not identical to a ~$600-$700 hardtail.


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

I found a used (almost new according to the description) Giant Talon 27.5" hardtail for $500. I asked the person selling what frame size it is and am waiting for a reply. Is that a good bike? I think Giant has a good reputation. It also includes lifetime maintenance from my local Giant store. I could try and negotiate down $50 or maybe $100 to make it a bit easier on my pocketbook.


----------



## Bentwrench (Apr 27, 2015)

Rich, I own both hard tails and full sussers and would have no qualms about owning and riding that bike. 

Any chance you can take it for test ride around the block and see if it tickles your fancy ?


----------



## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

the talon is a good bike. Just have to be aware of what it's worth. there are 4 levels of that bike. 
Level 4 (cheapest, not much better than the schwinn), intial cost $585 american, cheap coil fork (Suntour XCT) and 8 speed
Level 3 (starting to be OK) MSRP $700 american, Suntour XCM hydraulic fork and OK 9-seed. If the bike is relatively new and assuming $600 canadian is about $500 american, this is probably the one he's selling. If he's selling the level 4 for $500, it's overpriced. When bikes are on sale at your bike store, you should be able to get a brand new level 4 for about $620. Since you're not getting it brand new, knock 20% off that plus an extra 5-10% per year.
Level 1 or 2, if he's selling it for $500 canadian and it fits, buy it.


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

Bentwrench said:


> Rich, I own both hard tails and full sussers and would have no qualms about owning and riding that bike.
> 
> Any chance you can take it for test ride around the block and see if it tickles your fancy ?


I'll definitely go for a test ride around the block, jump off a couple curbs maybe


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

watts888 said:


> the talon is a good bike. Just have to be aware of what it's worth. there are 4 levels of that bike.
> Level 4 (cheapest, not much better than the schwinn), intial cost $585 american, cheap coil fork (Suntour XCT) and 8 speed
> Level 3 (starting to be OK) MSRP $700 american, Suntour XCM hydraulic fork and OK 9-seed. If the bike is relatively new and assuming $600 canadian is about $500 american, this is probably the one he's selling. If he's selling the level 4 for $500, it's overpriced. When bikes are on sale at your bike store, you should be able to get a brand new level 4 for about $620. Since you're not getting it brand new, knock 20% off that plus an extra 5-10% per year.
> Level 1 or 2, if he's selling it for $500 canadian and it fits, buy it.


Thanks so much for mentioning that! The seller posted the specs in a screenshot from Giant's website and it clearly says Suntour XCT 100mm travel w/ lockout and 8 speed. What price would be appropriate? $380? It does have a couple advantages over the Canadian Tire Schwinn, most notably hydraulic brakes and lifetime maintenance from Giant.

I know that I should stop looking at FS bikes because of my limited budget... but I think this one might be good... I think. A Jamis Dakar Sport ($1800 new according to seller) for $550. If I can bring it down to $480 or a tad more, would it be good? It's got an upgraded carbon fiber seat post and was owned by a bike technician.


----------



## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Jamis is a good bike, and it'll work well for your purpose. The price should be OK assuming it's not too old or beat up. Two things to keep in mind with full suspension bikes. Repair parts are always more expensive and full suspension has more parts to go bad.

The giant looks like this is the one. New 2015 bike, assuming it actually has hydraulic brakes and the seller didn't just grab the current years data sheet for his old bike. You'll have to verify the specs vs. what he actually has. If this is the bike and it has litle to no use on it, knock about 25% off MSRP, and it should be good. Maybe $450 if used? (hard to identify what MSRP in canada really is. giants website lists the same price for Canada as the US). Easy way to see how much use it has is to look at the brake rotors. If it was used a lot, you'll see nice smooth finish going around the disc that starts to have a slightly different height than the center section (wear line where the brakes rub). If it was hardly used at all, the brakes might not have much appearance difference from the center to the edge of the rotors.

Talon 27.5 4 (2015) | Giant Bicycles | United States


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

watts888 said:


> Jamis is a good bike, and it'll work well for your purpose. The price should be OK assuming it's not too old or beat up. Two things to keep in mind with full suspension bikes. Repair parts are always more expensive and full suspension has more parts to go bad.
> 
> The giant looks like this is the one. New 2015 bike, assuming it actually has hydraulic brakes and the seller didn't just grab the current years data sheet for his old bike. You'll have to verify the specs vs. what he actually has. If this is the bike and it has litle to no use on it, knock about 25% off MSRP, and it should be good. Maybe $450 if used? (hard to identify what MSRP in canada really is. giants website lists the same price for Canada as the US). Easy way to see how much use it has is to look at the brake rotors. If it was used a lot, you'll see nice smooth finish going around the disc that starts to have a slightly different height than the center section (wear line where the brakes rub). If it was hardly used at all, the brakes might not have much appearance difference from the center to the edge of the rotors.
> 
> Talon 27.5 4 (2015) | Giant Bicycles | United States


Thanks for the tip! That's the link to the ad for the Giant bike: Giant Talon 27.5 w/LIFETIME MAINTENANCE WARRANTY | mountain | Ottawa | Kijiji To me, it looks like you're right.

As for the Jamis bike, I understand that it'll require extra maintenance. If I get serious about mountain biking, I don't think I'll mind paying a bit extra in the future. I just don't want it to break down right after I buy it (let's say the first month or two). I wouldn't be happy at all if I had to spend a couple hundred dollars more on a bike that had already busted my budget.

Right now, I'm just waiting for replies from any of the two buyers. Maybe I'll test ride them both and inspect their condition. We'll see.


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

The Jamis seller replied that the bike has a 17" frame and 26x2.0 tires. I'm around 5'10". 2.0 width tires, is it wide enough for gravel trails, roots, rocks, dirt with moderate hills? I most often see 2.1 and 2.15, I believe. Also, most bikes I've looked at or tested so far are 18" or 19" and they were comfortable for the few minutes I sat on them. What do you guys think?


----------



## Bentwrench (Apr 27, 2015)

Depending on a persons physiology there can be a lot of comfort and fitment overlaps in the 17-19 range of frames even between models from the same makers. 
The odds favor a 18 or 19" frame fitting you better but like shoes you won't know for sure until you try it on.

Have you researched the frame geometries and dimensions of the bikes that you have found comfortable yet to establish somewhat of a baseline to begin comparison and narrow the field ?


----------



## amaizenblue402 (May 15, 2015)

FWIW, I just picked up a used Giant Talon 27.5 5 from a local seller on craigslist. The bike had less than 150 miles on it according to the person and he had the gel seat pad on the saddle. When I went to look at the bike it was practically brand new. Not a scratch on the bike or a lick of rust. He then told me that he has only took it on paved bike paths and never had the time to take it on a mtb trail. He bought it new from a lbs last year. I got it for $400.

Here is the link of the bike from Giant's website: https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/talon.27.5.5.2014/14783/66101/

I was looking at the Talon 4 at a lbs and they wanted $585 plus tax, so I would have been over $600 OTD. Considering that I got a like new, used Talon 5 for $200 less, I feel like I got a great deal. I'm new to the MTB scene and haven't owned a bike for over 15 years, so I wouldn't notice a considerable difference on the components from a 5 to a 4.


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

Bentwrench said:


> Depending on a persons physiology there can be a lot of comfort and fitment overlaps in the 17-19 range of frames even between models from the same makers.
> The odds favor a 18 or 19" frame fitting you better but like shoes you won't know for sure until you try it on.
> 
> Have you researched the frame geometries and dimensions of the bikes that you have found comfortable yet to establish somewhat of a baseline to begin comparison and narrow the field ?


I'll definitely put some time into researching frame geometries soon. Thanks for bringing that up!


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

amaizenblue402 said:


> FWIW, I just picked up a used Giant Talon 27.5 5 from a local seller on craigslist. The bike had less than 150 miles on it according to the person and he had the gel seat pad on the saddle. When I went to look at the bike it was practically brand new. Not a scratch on the bike or a lick of rust. He then told me that he has only took it on paved bike paths and never had the time to take it on a mtb trail. He bought it new from a lbs last year. I got it for $400.
> 
> Here is the link of the bike from Giant's website: https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/talon.27.5.5.2014/14783/66101/
> 
> I was looking at the Talon 4 at a lbs and they wanted $585 plus tax, so I would have been over $600 OTD. Considering that I got a like new, used Talon 5 for $200 less, I feel like I got a great deal. I'm new to the MTB scene and haven't owned a bike for over 15 years, so I wouldn't notice a considerable difference on the components from a 5 to a 4.


Seems to me like a great deal! I hope the Giant bike I found is as clean as yours. There are no real pictures of the actual bike in the ad, so I'll have to go see it. The seller still hasn't replied.


----------



## amaizenblue402 (May 15, 2015)

richghost15 said:


> Seems to me like a great deal! I hope the Giant bike I found is as clean as yours. There are no real pictures of the actual bike in the ad, so I'll have to go see it. The seller still hasn't replied.


Hope it all works out for you in the end. The key for me was patience. I was ready to go pull the trigger on the Talon 4 at the lbs for $585, but was uncomfortable with that price for a beginner's bike. I waited a couple weeks then came across the Talon 5, used for $400.


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

Do you guys know if this bike is worth the price? Mountain BIKE Ironhorse Warrior 26" $400 OBO | mountain | Ottawa | Kijiji


----------



## keithrad (May 4, 2007)

I was riding one of my local trails last summer, and noticed someone had thrown a cheap dept. store quality Mongoose over the barbed wire fence at around 5-ish miles from the trail head. Just laying there in a heap. I had to laugh and to think back to when I first started mountain biking I was going to buy the same type bike. Ended up selling some stuff and buying a used Specialized Stumpjumper for around $700. Been upgrading bikes ever since!


----------



## rockhopper97 (Jul 30, 2014)

if you are stuck buying a dept store bike and you are handy with a wrench, tear it down completely and make sure everything is properly lubed and adjusted.....when I first got back into mountain bikes I bought a full suspension genesis V2100 from walmart and tore it down and did the above....ended up not liking it after the suspension bushings wore out and due to the weight of the bike...hard tail is the way to go with dept store bikes....found the rockhopper at a garage sale around that time and sold the V2100......yesterday I picked up a trek 800 for free.... kind of an entry level bike, but it is gonna be a commuter bike


----------



## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

Where I ride Walmart bikes get walked or carried out of the preserve first time In..

Dickies sporting goods or Sports Authority bikes can handle the Green flatter beginner trails just fine as long as the rider is not In race mode.
These can handle the blue Intermediate trails ok in the hands of a Intermediate or skilled rider that can ride 'light',, but not a beginner, they to will fold. It's mostly the wheels that fold. these bike can last a season or more in skilled hands...

Seen a new rider smack his rear derailleur so hard he bent it,,not the hanger, It was toast. He was lucky it was a $79 SLX and not a $500 XO..


----------



## blackitout (Jun 30, 2014)

Osco said:


> Where I ride Walmart bikes get walked or carried out of the preserve first time In..
> 
> Dickies sporting goods or Sports Authority bikes can handle the Green flatter beginner trails just fine as long as the rider is not In race mode.
> These can handle the blue Intermediate trails ok in the hands of a Intermediate or skilled rider that can ride 'light',, but not a beginner, they to will fold. It's mostly the wheels that fold. these bike can last a season or more in skilled hands...
> ...


I don't know about this. All I've had are department store bikes for 23 years. I had a Motiv in 1992 that I learned to ride on for 2 years. Then I had a Marin Palisades Trail for 21 years. The Marin I still ride and I've only changed shifters and the rear derailleur. I ride that on black trails around VA. My newest bike is a Diamondback Response I got from Dick's. That did need some things replaced. If the beginner wants to learn how to work on their bikes they're not that bad. My DB was 32lbs and when I got finished with it, now is 28lbs. It's a fun bike.

I will say they don't make them like they used to. I bent the front chainring in 3 rides.


----------



## asookazian (Mar 3, 2015)

I have a 2013 Diamondback Overdrive Comp HT 29er. Recommended for $500 used.


----------



## blackitout (Jun 30, 2014)

I have to admit I looked down on Diamondback since I started riding in 1992. Now that I've had one, It's pretty beastly for the price. The components sucked but if you just buy them for frames they are well worth it


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

A few weeks back, my friends and I came across a guy on the trail riding a new 29er he bought at Dick's. He asked if we had an allen wrench to tighten his stem. 
As I got my tools out, I noticed I could see the ball bearings in his headset from 3" away. We disassembled the whole thing and found the crown race installed incorrectly. 
Nothing we could do with that in the woods, so we did our best with it and made it rideable. Told him to take the bike back to Dick's and either make them replace the headset or give him a different bike or a refund.


----------



## blackitout (Jun 30, 2014)

NYrr496 said:


> A few weeks back, my friends and I came across a guy on the trail riding a new 29er he bought at Dick's. He asked if we had an allen wrench to tighten his stem.
> As I got my tools out, I noticed I could see the ball bearings in his headset from 3" away. We disassembled the whole thing and found the crown race installed incorrectly.
> Nothing we could do with that in the woods, so we did our best with it and made it rideable. Told him to take the bike back to Dick's and either make them replace the headset or give him a different bike or a refund.


Yeah that is definitely the downside of buying it at Dick's. That's where I got mine. Like I said it helps if the beginner wants to learn how to work on their bike. Otherwise if they have no interest in that buying on from a LBS might be better since they can assemble properly.


----------



## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

The race issue is wierd. Normally the race is installed by the factory, not the skilled technicians at Diks. I guess each box store is different too. Our locak diks store has a relatively competent group of mechanics and a well organized/clean shop area. I'll still do wrenching on my own though. it's just fun.


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

watts888 said:


> The race issue is wierd. Normally the race is installed by the factory, not the skilled technicians at Diks. I guess each box store is different too. Our locak diks store has a relatively competent group of mechanics and a well organized/clean shop area. I'll still do wrenching on my own though. it's just fun.


I agree. We all decided the bike came from China (or wherever) like that. They still should have picked up on it before the bike left the store.


----------



## White7 (Feb 9, 2015)

did you check on the PB forum,could get a lot more bike buying used

Pinkbike BuySell Search


----------



## blackitout (Jun 30, 2014)

NYrr496 said:


> I agree. We all decided the bike came from China (or wherever) like that. They still should have picked up on it before the bike left the store.


I didn't know they could be installed upside down. Those guys in china probably assemble tons of bikes every day. I'm sure they get into a groove and mess up every once in a while.


----------



## White7 (Feb 9, 2015)

blackitout said:


> Those guys in china probably assemble tons of bikes every day. I'm sure they get into a groove and mess up every once in a while.


hard to trust 10 year old kids these days


----------



## blackitout (Jun 30, 2014)

White7 said:


> hard to trust 10 year old kids these days


Haha yeah they can be temperamental


----------



## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

White7 said:


> hard to trust 10 year old kids these days


so wrong, but so true. and funny in a very wrong way


----------



## richghost15 (May 19, 2015)

I actually bought a GT Karakoram Sport 2014 a while ago, sorry for not mentioning it on here. I already upgraded the pedals and the fork. Love the bike!

I discovered Pinkbike like a week after buying my bike... probably would've found a great deal... but whatever, I like my GT, that's all that matters.


----------



## restomod (Jan 2, 2017)

I realize this is an old thread, but this seems to be a subject that's of interest to all beginners.
I'm by no means anywhere near an expert, but have been working on cars, bikes, houses etc. for 50 years. I took a job at a dept. store for extra cash, assembling bicycles. I only worked there for 2 days, but every customer I spoke to was either buying a first bike for a kid, or a larger bike for a kid who outgrew the old one. I didn't have the opportunity to meet anyone buying to get into the sport. That being said, I warned every customer to get to a bike shop and have the wheels trued, and brakes adjusted.
I only assembled about 10 bikes. Every single one had both wheels out of true. Some were out of round. Properly adjusting the brakes was impossible. For wheels out of round, pads either ended up on the tire or the spokes at some point. To prevent rubbing on rims out of lateral true, pads had to be so far from the rim, the brake handles had no leverage. Naturally, there was no way to check for proper dishing.
There were no spoke wrenches, so I brought my own the second day. I was told I was spending too much time adjusting the bike, out of true wheels were okay. I said be prepared to get sued, these bikes are unsafe. 
Some rear derailleurs were so bad, they couldn't be adjusted. The bikes wouldn't shift correctly. I was told, no problem, just get the bike out on the floor.. I ran into one suspension fork that wasn't assembled straight. The dropouts were out of alignment, so the wheel couldn't be installed. I told a manager the bike was defective,. He said, "no bike comes with defects. Either you broke it, or you don't know what you're doing." I laughed at him, then left, halfway through my 4 hour shift. I still feel ashamed for doing slipshod work for 6 hours.
At any rate, these bikes are okay for a leisurely ride, or just for a non-active person to get some fresh air and exercise, but they MUST be tuned before you ride one, or give one for a gift.


----------



## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

One lap around the easiest trail we have in Austin and the Walmart bike we were on had the fork spun around backwards and stripped so the stem could not hold it in place by the end of our ride.

Our experience was much like every video on youtube on a highly followed channel.


----------



## Clayncedar (Aug 25, 2016)

1.) Buy a Walmart bike with fork on backwards.
2.) Ride around to the back of the store where the loading dock is.
3.) Find the Dumpster back there and throw it in.
4.) Go locate a good used mtb at a decent price.
5.) Enjoy riding.


----------



## Battery (May 7, 2016)

I found the timing of this thread to be interesting on my behalf. My brother-in-law went out for a trail ride in my area and he ran into a young teenager. This young man had a Huffy bike his parents bought him for Xmas. The poor kid barely made it to the trail head before his handlebar loosened up and was not able to ride the trail. 

Luckily my brother-in-law had a tool to fix his bar. He fixed up the kid's bar and went on his way. He didn't want to make him feel bad for attempting to ride a Huffy in a bike park and opted to let him learn from the experience.


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Couple of years ago when that video was making the rounds of the pro riding a Wal Mart huffy down a sick downhill trail, my son spotted three spanish guys with three of the same bikes down at the beach. They had ridden down the 5 mile paved path. 
He asked me if I thought we should go warn them about the bikes. 
I told him they were just fine riding them on pavement.


----------



## restomod (Jan 2, 2017)

My neighbors have been riding the same wallyworld bikes for years. Usually half hour rides in the neighborhood a few times a week when weather is nice. I true the wheels for them occasionally, and replaced rear derailleurs after a few years with good used ones a LBS sells. (They take trade-ins when riders want to upgrade.) I also replace cables for them every two years, whether they need them or not - cheap insurance. 
For the kind of riding they do, these bikes are fine.
Their kid's bikes are another matter. When they became teenagers, their wallyworld bikes didn't hold up. Rather than spend a lot on good quality new bikes, they bought trade-ins from the same LBS. Those lasted long enough until the kids could buy their own bikes with their own cash.
I have two rebumbent trikes I built for myself in 2006, a delta and a tadpole. When I first built them, I used parts from dept. store bikes I found in the trash. Derailleurs were the first to go, then the cranksets, chains, & BB's. Both trikes use two headsets, and I've never had to replace them. Both have hub motors with disc brakes. IIRC, they're Avid BB5's, which weren't very expensive. Rear of the tadpole is a suspension unit from a Next bike, front fork, headset, and V-brake from that bike is on the delta. No problems, but I only ride on paved roads.
Both trikes have nice, comfy boat seats.


----------



## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Battery said:


> I found the timing of this thread to be interesting on my behalf. My brother-in-law went out for a trail ride in my area and he ran into a young teenager. This young man had a Huffy bike his parents bought him for Xmas. The poor kid barely made it to the trail head before his handlebar loosened up and was not able to ride the trail.
> 
> Luckily my brother-in-law had a tool to fix his bar. He fixed up the kid's bar and went on his way. He didn't want to make him feel bad for attempting to ride a Huffy in a bike park and opted to let him learn from the experience.


You've hit on the key: assembly.

While the bikes may not be state-of-the-art, it's unprofessional assembly that could really wind up hurting you. The guy who built your bike is building a barbecue next, followed by a cardboard display for adult diapers.


----------



## restomod (Jan 2, 2017)

phlegm said:


> You've hit on the key: assembly.
> 
> While the bikes may not be state-of-the-art, it's unprofessional assembly that could really wind up hurting you. The guy who built your bike is building a barbecue next, followed by a cardboard display for adult diapers.


That's it. I was told not to true wheels, even after I pointed out that could be dangerous. Also, customers taking assembled bikes off the floor noticed loose handlebars and kickstands. Seemed like no one bothered to check pre-assembled parts at the factory to see if they were tight, nor made absolutely sure all the parts they assembled were properly fastened.
That being said, I'd also be wary if the same people assembling bikes are assembling propane barbecues. Ka-Boom!


----------



## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

restomod said:


> That's it. I was told not to true wheels, even after I pointed out that could be dangerous. Also, customers taking assembled bikes off the floor noticed loose handlebars and kickstands. Seemed like no one bothered to check pre-assembled parts at the factory to see if they were tight, nor made absolutely sure all the parts they assembled were properly fastened.
> That being said, I'd also be wary if the same people assembling bikes are assembling propane barbecues. Ka-Boom!


Loose handlebars just means it's set up for a new kind of bar spin! :thumbsup:


----------



## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

Without reading this thread I just want to say over the years my frugal immigrant neighbors always bring their kids crappy cheap bikes to me to fix and overall my experience is that the assembly is the worst aspect. True the components are absolutely abysmally produced, but with some careful adjustments they can work. Sadly so many bikes I have seen are just downright dangerous to ride. I feel like I have saved a lot of skin.

These parents, I don't get it. They love their kids for sure. But the bikes they give them to ride are seriously horrid.

Sometimes I get a $5 bill. I fix flats and adjust everything. No sense of ergonomics. Some or most of these immigrants don't own a wrench, let alone turn one.

Kickstands, always hitting cranks.

Tires always pinch flatted,

saddles and bars always loose and not straight,

brakes rubbing and it not working at all,

things upside down back to front,

left pedal on right crank,

and so it goes....

what a comedy....

bikes that don't even come close to fitting,

see Johnny ride and laugh your ass off!

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk


----------

