# The official Furious Fred Thread. . .



## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

Ok, I've seen some posts about this tire in other threads, but I figured I would starts its own thread to keep the other ones on track. Who am I kidding? I am going to get these tires anyways and try them out. Sub 300 gram tires? How can I not?!

A few questions though. . .

#1-Is anyone running the non-UST version tubelessly on Mavic rims? This is the set up I plan on going with.

#2-The Schwalbe website says this: "Warning! To anyone who wants everything. Furious Fred is the fastest MTB tire - Ever! But be aware: It is not an allrounder. Grip is limited and risk of punctuiring is high." Ummmm, would NoTubes Sealant help this? 

#3-Grip. I have been using Crows at 20 PSI last year, and was actually pretty happy with the grip. Would running these tires at 20 PSI yield similar results?

#4-IF (that's a big IF) I decided to go UST, and throw a tire on my bike that weighs a whopping 425 grams, would the UST tires be more puncture resistant?

#5-If you actually own these tires, what do they actually measure? Is it really a 2.0? 

#6-Lastly. . .Does anyone have pictures of these tires mounted on a wheel? I am curious to see how the tread looks an actual wheel.

Party.


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## williford (Dec 8, 2005)

You won't get much help from me, but I am so excited about these tires that I thought I would chime in. I got a couple 2.25" Furious Freds with Raceguard and they weigh 434 and 435 grams. I haven't mounted them yet (saving them for 24 hours in Old Pueblo), but they look super fast; barely more tread than a semi-slick in the middle but with knobs on the edges for better cornering. They will be my dry/dusty-conditions tire of choice for this season, and I'll use the new 2.25" Racing Ralphs for rougher courses. Schwalbe's new 2008 lineup is hard to beat!


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## Strong Ti (Jun 1, 2005)

*#2 Stans and punctures*

Using my bike to commute all this weekend and got a puncture on my rear tire, old style Ralph, something put a 6-7mm cut into the tire, just missing a treadblock. I stopped and had a look and luckily Stans goo was oozing out.

I had higher than normal pressure in the rear tire as I was commuting on road and I was concerned that there was no liquid goo in my back tire but once the pressure had dropped a bit the goo was just bubbling a bit so I completed my ride into work and the tire sealed up 

Later in the day put some more air in the tire and all good.

I'll try and change to the new Ralph this weekend.

All the talk on the Fred is making me thing of getting one but there's not really enough tread for me so I'm resisting.


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

Awesome! I've got some on order. I plan on mounting them up tubeless on some CrossMax SLR's. Don't worry, I have another pair coming in for sale as well. I can't wait to see how they seal up and perform on the trails!


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## more tech please. (Aug 19, 2007)

I'm running the UST version on the back. the 2.0. they run small. the 2.0 is more like a 1.9. the non tubeless versions scare me though. another 100grams isn't worth a few flats. I mean the fact I can get a tubeless ready tire at a little more than 400 grams is enough for me.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*pics...*

maybe some pics help as well in deciding if that's a tire that might suit your terrain/trails:
http://www.light-bikes.de/website/new/2007/10/26/fahreindruck-furious-fred-225

the thin 2,0 version is VERY prone to get flats. there's guys having 3 flats within 100 miles. it gets cuts VERY easily. there's a RACEGUARD version available which should have an added layer against cuts...only 40g heavier. time will tell if these tires do any good...


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## scarsellone (Oct 17, 2005)

What's the size of the bigger FF in the pic?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*size*



scarsellone said:


> What's the size of the bigger FF in the pic?


according to that article:

size of the Furios Fred 2,2":
carcass width: 50mm
knob width: 53mm
height: 48mm

size of the Furious Fred 2,0":
carcass width: 48mm
knob width: 48mm
height: 46mm


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

I realize that they are prone to flats, but will running them tubeless with NoTubes sealant solve that issue? I'm just curious if anyone has done this yet. I plan on doing this in the next 2 weeks, do I will post my results.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*well...*



sonyisdope said:


> I realize that they are prone to flats, but will running them tubeless with NoTubes sealant solve that issue? I'm just curious if anyone has done this yet. I plan on doing this in the next 2 weeks, do I will post my results.


sealant is ok for tiny holes but we are talking about cuts...not so good.

i will test them as well as they are said to roll real fasdt. will have to compare them aaginst my all-time favourite Nokian NBX

however i might get the 2,2 version as it has not only more meat but also slightly larger thread which should help protecting from cuts a little bit.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

nino said:


> sealant is ok for tiny holes but we are talking about cuts...not so good.
> 
> i will test them as well as they are said to roll real fasdt. will have to compare them aaginst my all-time favourite Nokian NBX
> 
> however i might get the 2,2 version as it has not only more meat but also slightly larger thread which should help protecting from cuts a little bit.


"stans" sweet nectar will seal cuts, i have had 6mm cuts in my tire sealed up by the 
juice, it's all in his proprietary "force additive"


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

*KKKK, today was arrival day!*

Got my Furious Freds today! Ok, I'm a little disappointed though. I mean, they are still the lightest tires I've seen recently, but not what they said they would be.

I got 4 tires their weights are:
294
318
322
323

Only 1 made the cut under 300 grams  Oh well. For their ridiculously high price, you would think they could get them at the correct weight. That's why we have this forum though, right? To separate the BS from the real deal.

Next up, I am going to try to set them up tubeless on Mavic CrossMax SLR's. The light one is going on the front of course!


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Sonyisondope, 300 gram tire tubeless, LOL!


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

sonyisdope said:


> Got my Furious Freds today! Ok, I'm a little disappointed though. I mean, they are still the lightest tires I've seen recently, but not what they said they would be.
> 
> I got 4 tires their weights are:
> 294
> ...


 Good luck... I wouldn't trust those...


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

But how about those UST versions? At 400 gram range, I'm sure -- it's a winner! I believe sony got the Standard tube ones...

As long as you still got everything else considered, i.e. like application and all... Minimalist. Aye!


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

Well, they seemed to hook right up to the SLRs no problems, and held air overnight. 

Now, if I only had a frame to hang them on to try them. . .


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## Fast1 (Apr 6, 2007)

How do they compare to this tires?










A tyre for cross-country competition in dry/ hard conditions. Lowest possible rolling resistance with sufficient grip. The Twister Supersonic is a true tuning component. Weighing in at a mere 370g, it doesn't slow things down in the least. But beware! Little puncture protection.

Twister Supersonic: 3 plies/ total 180 tpi


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

sonyisdope said:


> Well, they seemed to hook right up to the SLRs no problems, and held air overnight.
> 
> Now, if I only had a frame to hang them on to try them. . .


That's nice! Where'd you get 'em? TIA!


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

http://storesense4.megawebservers.c...-1304/Schwalbe-Furious-Fred-26x2.0/Detail.bok

Ok, I admit it, it is my store, but I advertise here too! So now I don't feel so bad.


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

Sony, I am not going to bash you... Am looking for those tires... Thanks!


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## rgkicksbutt (Jul 5, 2006)

Just wondering if anyone else has converted the standard 2.00" furious freds to tubeless yet.


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

Sony, just some few quick questions here: have you tried converting the standard tube version of FF? Is it possible to do so? Otherwise, do you sell their UST version? Thanks!


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

Yes, I have successfully converted the standard version to tubeless. They are holding air just fine. However. . .I have not ridden them on a bike yet. I am still waiting for my new frame, and to be frank, it's been around 10 degrees (F) lately, so I wouldn't trash these wheels outside just yet anyways.

As for the UST version, I have some of the UST versions coming in this week. I will post up some pics and weights once I receive them. 

If you are good at mounting tubeless tires, have an air compressor, and are pretty lightweight, I'd just mount up the standard ones. Like I previously posted, mine are set up on Mavic SLR's. I've also mounted many tires onto NoTubes rims, and I've found that non-UST tires hook up to NoTubes rims more easily than they do to the Mavic UST rims. With an air compressor, experience, and patience, you can mount anything up to a Mavic rim though.

Onie-How much do you weigh? Also, what rims are you using?


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## rgkicksbutt (Jul 5, 2006)

Thanks for the official confirmation Sonyisdope, I guess I will get the standard 2.00" ones and convert them to tubeless on my ZTR 355 rims


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

OK....picked up a set from sonyisdope and raced with them last Sunday in Northern California at Fort Ord.......20 mile 2K' XC race on smooth buff/sandy singletrack.tires weighed 323 and 322 grams (written on the box..pretty cool)

mounted with tubes on my Crossmax SLR's at 27psi rear and 25 psi front (i weigh 170 lbs)....these took my racer-x singlespeed down to 21.62 lbs pushing 2:1 gearing......

first off - NO flats (yay!)....i was genuinely concerned about this...

secondly - they are freakin' FAST! helped considerably on the flat'ish sections trying to outrun the geared folks....also, the much lighter weight and rolling resistance was definitely noticeable in the later half of the race.....especially when you're pinned trying to pass rows of geared riders up hills (the same turkeys who passed me on the flats....ugh)

Traction was really pretty good in the rear.....as long as you shift your weight back on the power stroke up loose hills.....the front, however, can drift a bit while cornering.....which is spooky.....and tends to make me over correct resulting in interesting crashes...dangit....but i expected this.

The 27 and 25 psi worked pretty good for me.....there was some "cush" without really worrying about pinch flats, and enough pressure so the tire didn't "roll" while cornering....but i did take it easier downhill and concentrated on the climbs.....there's no way i would push the Furious Fred's as hard as knobbier tires....i could see myself scooting into something stationary...or off the side of something tall.....either would make me sad.....

overall they are stoopid fast and light tires....race day only rubber.....i'm definitely trying them tubeless next weekend...if I have the skillz to mount them......got a feelin' i'm gonna be doused in stan's goop though....blech


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

Did you mount them tubeless yet?


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

sonyisdope said:


> Did you mount them tubeless yet?


yup....3 days ago.....white stans crap everywhere ....but got'em dialed in and holding air (appreciate the tips amigo )...

took'em out for a spin today.....around 12 miles and 2k' footies...fireroad and light rocky ST ....pretty much everything was smooth hardpack......here are my impressions

- No Flats....nice...the bead didn't pull away from the rim...hit some rocky bits...and did some bunny hopping
- they are more "cush"......27psi rear and 26 psi front (i weigh 170)
- they still roll fast but seem to smush a bit
- cornering.....ugh.....the sidewalls need to have tubes supporting them.....i felt them "roll" sideways at speed...very disconcerting. They almost felt like they were going flat.

Basically...i will not run these tubeless...i raced with tubes and was impressed...fast, light....just as advertised....but take the tubes out - feels like riding on tissue paper.

Fun Experiment though....looking forward to hearing other peeps experiences...maybe a higher pressure would help.....


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

*higher pressure*



CHUM said:


> - they are more "cush"......27psi rear and 26 psi front (i weigh 170)
> - they still roll fast but seem to smush a bit
> - cornering.....ugh.....the sidewalls need to have tubes supporting them.....i felt them "roll" sideways at speed...very disconcerting. They almost felt like they were going flat.
> 
> ...


why not just try a little more pressure first? specially if they are so thin, aren't you better off with having the Stan's sealant helping? Can't hurt.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

kevbikemad said:


> why not just try a little more pressure first? specially if they are so thin, aren't you better off with having the Stan's sealant helping? Can't hurt.


that's the problem.....the sidewalls are so thin I'm afraid of over-stretching them at anything 30 psi'ish. Higher pressure just rollin' around would be OK....but not at race pace IMHO.....little to risky for me.

also note - these were not the tubeless version of the tire


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## bikerboyj17 (Dec 18, 2007)

*how do they feel...*

How do they corner, are they and good for climbs?


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

sonyisdope said:


> Onie-How much do you weigh? Also, what rims are you using?


Sony, apologies for such late reply. Went up north with my friend for the whole week, not so much riding has been done since of the wet, blistering cold weather. I'm just 156lbs. Shimano (WH M-975) So, inferring from your statement, I just can't pump it up using a floor pump not as easily done with Conti Twister SS (but pestered with _microholes_)

Thanks for the correspondence! :thumbsup:


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

BTW, just an update for the UST tires. I just got a pair of the UST tires in. They are the 26x2.0's. One of them weighs 427 grams, the other one weighs 406 grams. VERY impressive for a real UST tire!


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

Just mounted up some 2.25 FFs. 405 and 421gms. Std lightest version(claimed 395gm). Much better volumn then my std race tire, being the Karma. And lighter.. Surely they are faster  Can't wait to race them.


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## Bender (Jan 12, 2004)

How do you all think the 2.25 would fair in mud and slippery roots? It sure wouldnt get clogged!


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

Raced the FFs for the first time yesterday. Fast tires that stuck like glue at race pace in mostly perfect loamy/mixed conditions.

And I won.


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

So, you're saying I'm going to win my first race of the season this weekend because I am using Furious Freds? Awesome!!!


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

what pressures did you run for the race?


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

Exacly..  

PSI was about 32 front/36rr. But, the rear was leaking down the entire race as the valve was leaking around the valve hole. The last few miles felt like 25lbs. No probs tho, even with the endless gravity dips.


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## Bender (Jan 12, 2004)

Duckman did you use this with Stans or with tubes?


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

Bender said:


> Duckman did you use this with Stans or with tubes?


Stans.

The front leaked down after the race thru a small pinhole in the sidewall(apparently). It now appears to be fine after doing the Stans shaking drill.


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

Well, the Furious Freds didn't give me a victory, but did work awesome! I got the front to seal up fine on a CrossMax SLR with the standard version and some NoTubes sealant. I run them at about 30 psi (about 10 more than I ran the Crows at) and they feel like the roll fast AND grip just as good. I was skeptical of the tread pattern at first but in "dry, twisty, Michigan singletrack" they are perfect!


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## elilanger (Mar 20, 2008)

kenda klimax lite. 
period.


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

elilanger said:


> kenda klimax lite.
> period.


Care to elaborate?


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## elilanger (Mar 20, 2008)

*kenda klimax lite*

kenda klimax lite are 345 grams, have aggressive height and designed well spaced tread knobbys, difficult to flat with excellent puncture resistance. they roll incredibly fast. a little noisy but the weight is hard to beat.
you know im of the old school cyclocross belief that you begin with a tire whose centre knobs are full height and then ride that tire down. you are left with shorter centre tread with the benefits of the edge treads.
starting with a low to no centre knobs seriously shortens the tire life but i guess its an instant gratification thing.
the furious fred tires are intriguing but i havent tried them.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Rollingresistance...*



elilanger said:


> kenda klimax lite are 345 grams, have aggressive height and designed well spaced tread knobbys, difficult to flat with excellent puncture resistance. they roll incredibly fast. a little noisy but the weight is hard to beat.
> you know im of the old school cyclocross belief that you begin with a tire whose centre knobs are full height and then ride that tire down. you are left with shorter centre tread with the benefits of the edge treads.
> starting with a low to no centre knobs seriously shortens the tire life but i guess its an instant gratification thing.
> the furious fred tires are intriguing but i havent tried them.


i don't know why people believe the Klimax Lite is a fast tire when it really isn't!! it was mediocre already 6 years ago (see testresults below). already 10 watts slower PER WHEEL than the original fast Fred....

the Furious Fred is pretty fast but lacking dramatically in puncture resistance and grip. but definitely a very fast tire when the terrain allows it. i would never mount it on the front tough.


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## elilanger (Mar 20, 2008)

ill consider the ratings of this chart. thanks. 
possibly in doubt of my experience with the klimax lites
one has to admit their weight is something


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

FF up date.

Raced a 12 hour solo yesterday. Did 126.51 miles at race pace, all on singletrack. Hammered the bike on the descents to make time. Used a FF 2.25 up front. Mostly dry conditions. The tire railed. That plus 2 previous XC races. No problems to date. Thats good enough for me regarding reasonable durability.

Pic as I came thru starting lap 9(about mile 102). I was suffering pretty bad atm. Finished 4th. ..1.5 minute behind 3rd. Oh well. 








Pic by RegularJoe


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

twisters have been my tire of choice, roll really FAST and good side knobs for turning, good overall handling. convert them to tubeless and they are even BETTER. best race tire i have ever used in anything but a mudfest. only drawback is the seaping sidewalls.

duckman, I know why you came in forth... you're using your brakes. hey just kidding, good pic and nice job.


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

Nino-

In your post you said you would never mount the FF up front, I was just wondering, why not? What would YOU use up front instead?

Duckman-

Awesome riding the FF's in an endurance race. I don't have the balls to do that, as the tires have proved to be VERY delicate for me, and I will probably switch back to the Kenda Karmas for the endurance race I have coming up.

kevbikemad-

Are you running the Supersonics tubeless?


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

kevbikemad said:


> twisters have been my tire of choice, roll really FAST and good side knobs for turning, good overall handling. convert them to tubeless and they are even BETTER. best race tire i have ever used in anything but a mudfest. only drawback is the seaping sidewalls.
> 
> duckman, I know why you came in forth... you're using your brakes. hey just kidding, good pic and nice job.


Ha!, regarding the brakes. Thats a steepish off camber entrance to a fast U-turn at the end of a bigring powerline descent. I'd drop it into the middlering so I'd be in the right gear at the exit. But..as seen here one second later I was off the brakes and into the apex. I'd dive under people right there every lap. You can actually see it understeering slightly(washing out) in this pic. Theres a climb at the exit so cornering speed is most important at this point and run so wide at the exit..I'd almost hit that orange tape while maintaining max exit speed. About to put on the lights as my pit is only 50yrds away. 12.2 mile laps. 









Pic after the first parade lap. Same corner. Note rider about to low side off to the left. 








All pics by RegularJoe. You rock buddy. 
Yup.









Others at the exit. 









I actually love the Twisters for traction. Even liked them for mud duty(still worked and no packup). Low volumn is not so great tho. Plus I've had 2 blowoffs with 2 diff Twisters. They now scare me for DIY tubeless.

I ran a Karma in the rear. 437gms for that one. Amazingly light considering the claimed weight.


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

nino said:


> i don't know why people believe the Klimax Lite is a fast tire when it really isn't!! it was mediocre already 6 years ago (see testresults below). already 10 watts slower PER WHEEL than the original fast Fred....
> 
> the Furious Fred is pretty fast but lacking dramatically in puncture resistance and grip. but definitely a very fast tire when the terrain allows it. i would never mount it on the front tough.


Hey Nino, I noticed you're pretty quick to whip that (6 y.o) comparison graph out everytime someone likes a tyre that you do not. Not sure why you do that - I assume you're doing it in the interests of education... You seem to get satisfaction out of it on some level!

Anyway, it only provides data that is relevant to a tyre being pressed against a drum hooked up to a strain gauge, rolling at a constant speed and wattage. I can't remember the last time I rode on drums. It sounds difficult. I think Trials riders do this, but I can't ride trials either.

What the test does not measure is:

- the effect of surface (i.e. different types of dirt) deformation under wheel load and how this affects the hysteresis ( repeated cycles of deformation and recovery ) of the tyre. 
I.e. The 'elasticity' of different tyres will cause each to lose/conserve energy differently against a variety of different surfaces. E.g. Those that zoom on loamy soils may actually be slower on hardpack than another tyre that has different characteristics.

- the effect of different levels of soil adhesion - as opposed to a drum 

- rolling resistance under different loads (i.e.weight). Some of the better performing tyres listed on your test may not roll as well with a heavier/lighter rider.

- rolling resistance across different speeds or wattages, etc.

- Upgrades - how can you be sure that a tyre company has not upgraded the manufacturing process of their sidewalls, tread design or added silica without telling you first? Is there a more up to date version of that graph of yours?

I dare say that as long as people of different weights ride at different speeds and on different surfaces with different levels of exertion and style to you (or to a steel drum/strain gauge), you'll have plenty of opportunity to 'trump' someone with your graph for the next six years :thumbsup:

Everywhere else, though, you seem to know what you are talking about.

F.

PS: ...and MBA only rated the Roll - X because Specialized were major advertisers


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Rolling Resistance*



Feideaux said:


> Hey Nino, I noticed you're pretty quick to whip that (6 y.o) comparison graph out everytime someone likes a tyre that you do not. Not sure why you do that - I assume you're doing it in the interests of education... You seem to get satisfaction out of it on some level!
> 
> Anyway, it only provides data that is relevant to a tyre being pressed against a drum hooked up to a strain gauge, rolling at a constant speed and wattage. I can't remember the last time I rode on drums. It sounds difficult. I think Trials riders do this, but I can't ride trials either.
> 
> ...


correct - there is more to rollingresistance than just the drum-test BUT this is showing the energy loss by the deformation of the carcass which is still the same also in the dirt. BUT i can tell you that testing a fast tire out of such a test directly against a slow one is impressive! i did so back then when just out of curiosity installed that Nokian NBX...i felt like having backwind all the time. so it became my favourite and every time i hop on another bike i am shocked about the energy loss of other bikes. on some i feel like dragging the brakes all the time...

now the Furious Fred is a tire with just ONE goal: speed because of low rollingresistance. all i tried to say is that it may be fast indeed but it lacks heavily in grip and puncture protection. and it isn't that much faster than the mentioned NBX which comes with full knobs and great grip. i didn't say it is a bad tire at all! to some this might just be what they are looking for. i on the other hand try to get my hands on tires that do not just roll good but are also offering grip. BUT the Nokian is heavy (ca. 500g). that's where the FF shines big time.

oh - i forgot to include the most actual graph


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

nino said:


> BUT this is showing the energy loss by the deformation of the carcass which is still the same also in the dirt.


Again, a tyre carcass would deform differently in actual soil as opposed to against a drum. This would yield different results, but anyway...

I never disputed the speed of the FF. If they are faster than the Racing Ralphs that I have been using in races lately, then they must be very fast indeed. I wonder if the sideknobs on the FFs are tall enough to 'catch' themselves when the center breaks away like those on the RRs are able to do.

I've been very impressed by the high volume (tubed) RRs - they are smooth, supple and roll extremely well. Mine are worn to the point of looking like Freds anyway.

Can anyone shed light on the UST RRs? Any good?


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

Raced the same FF 2.25 on the front(in slick conditions with what seeemed like countless riders crashing around me the entire race) in a SE champ series again today. Managed 2nd in GM Sport. A bit slick today for this tire mind you, but still very manageable. I had one on the rear for a win last month, but it rub'd the rear stays in the corners , so I had to put a Karma back on after that race. Oh well.

Despite the grassy feedzone section below, this course has some serious technical rooty sections. And since it poured on the course last night, the wet muddy roots were slick as grease.


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

Duckman said:


> Raced the same FF 2.25 on the front(in slick conditions with what seeemed like countless riders crashing around me the entire race) in a SE champ series again today. Managed 2nd in GM Sport. A bit slick today for this tire mind you, but still very manageable. I had one on the rear for a win last month, but it rub'd the rear stays in the corners , so I had to put a Karma back on after that race. Oh well.
> 
> Despite the grassy feedzone section below, this course has some serious technical rooty sections. And since it poured on the course last night, the wet muddy roots were slick as grease.


Congratulations on a great placing in your race. I enjoyed viewing the pictures you posted and reading your report. I have to say - one of my real dreams is to visit the U.S. and partake in some of the MTB races that are offered, particularly in the regions that you depict so well - beautiful countryside.

Anyway, back to tyres - you're right, the FFs look to be a pretty good match to the conditions as you describe them. Interesting that the side knobs rub on the Intense frame - have you tried a stiffer wheelset? My XTRs are pretty stiff in that direction - no rub with the 2.2 Schwalbe on the Scale frame yet 

I also found that while the RRs are a little more prone to breaking away, you soon incorporate that characterisitic into your riding style. We're mountainbikers after all - we know how to handle! You don't really lose any speed and I've found a bit of slide helps on the twisty tracks. I'm sure it's the same with the FFs. Do you use the UST version? What's the sidewall like?

Keep up the great posts!

F.


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks. 

I'm underwhelmed regarding the Spider rear chainstay clearance(they are known for this). It was real close already. The 2.25 RR won't fit at all  . Both work fine on the rear of my NRS or XTC. 

These are the std FFs with Stans. Sidewalls feel way thin.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

sonyisdope said:


> kevbikemad-
> 
> Are you running the Supersonics tubeless?


yes on ZTR Race wheels - the RACE width actually adds about bout 1/8 inch of volume over most other rims.

run em between 22-28 psi depending on conditions, work great in anything but a mud pit.


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## Thomas (Feb 19, 2004)

*Im running*



Duckman said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'm underwhelmed regarding the Spider rear chainstay clearance(they are known for this). It was real close already. The 2.25 RR won't fit at all  . Both work fine on the rear of my NRS or XTC.


2008 Schwalbe Racing Ralph EVO 2.25" on the rear on my 2005 Spider,and it is fine!
Not much space left,but no problem so far.
Will post some pictures later today.


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

Thomas said:


> 2008 Schwalbe Racing Ralph EVO 2.25" on the rear on my 2005 Spider,and it is fine!
> Not much space left,but no problem so far.
> Will post some pictures later today.


Sorry. A bit of brain fade again. It was the Karma 2.20 that rub'd before even riding it. Haven't tried the RR yet. Mine are all the first gen version. Looks like the same case size as the FF tho.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Has anyone had the tubeless version of these yet?

Im looking at a set but i want tubeless and i can't decide which model to get. Tubless is 2.00" only @ 425g but the 2.25 racegaurd ones are 435g

How thin are the sidewalls on the standard ones? Do they sweat sealant?


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## cabbgage (Jul 20, 2008)

Hi, i fiitted ff tubeless 2.00 a couple of weeks ago. Here are a few notes.
They seal perfectly, they are my first tubless tire that hardley leaks (maybe 3 or 4 psi over 3 days)
They are really fast, I did a race in spain over hard pack etc, you have to be careful round corners especially the front, but after a while the sliding is kind of predictable, and a lot of fun. You lose time down hill for sure, and on really steep sections, but gain far more on the flatter bits.
Ive done about 15 hours on them and the rear tire is half worn already...The problem is you dont want to run another tire while training, as switching back to ff's for a race will make you unfamiliar again.
I haven't had any puntures yet!! touch wood.
I wouldn't like to try them in the wet.
Ive been running them 27 -29 psi, seems ok but would like to know what anyone else is running them at.
All in all great tire, but i think they may be too expensive for me to run..


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## jadis3 (Nov 18, 2007)

My FF UST is 404 grams. I use it on rear, 30psi, DT4.2 with notubes milk and yellow tape.

Extremely fast! but careful with rear brake!


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

Well, I've been using the FF's all summer, and here's my feedback. . .

DELICATE-I've been running the non-UST ones on SLR's with a scoop of Stans sealant, and they've been sealing fine, however. . .I've bought 5 of the this year! You know the deal, just like they state on the Schwalbe website, they are very prone to flats. Thorns are nothing, but they cut very easily. So easily in fact, I've gone over log piles, landed crooked and they've almost ripped a knob right off. I've also hit sharp rocks and they've sliced right through the sidewalls. The NoTubes goop is *usually* enough to get me out of the trail, but I have had to walk out once, and throw a tube in another time. The website is brutally honest about they, and it is true.

RACE DAY ONLY TIRE-Well, this is kind of an oxy moron. It IS a race day only tire, but like cabbgage stated, how can you even try to train on anything else? I mean, what are you going to do-Ride a Nevegal day in and day out, then swap these tires on for race day? They handle completely different than anything else out there. That's not to say that they handle bad, they are fast, and corner well. They just handle different. So, they are a race day tire, but what do you train on? 

STILL EXPENSIVE-UST tires are going UP to $84 a piece. Last I checked, you could get a 17" Pirelli P Zero Nero for about $80. That's a really nice car tire in case you were wondering. Like anything else in life though. . .You gotta pay to play 

FAST-They are the fastest rolling tires out there right now IMO. Damn! They are fast. Not only are they fast, but they corner well too. They corner well, not awesome, but well. In Michigan, our trails are very well groomed singletrack. We don't have much sand or loose stuff out here. Mostly fast hardpack singletrack that is about the width of your handlebars. The FF's are a great choice for Michigan XC.

BRAKING IS PREDICTABLE-They brake well, and are very predictable. They do tend to slide out *occasionally* but always end up biting. They hook up well in corners and fast, well-groomed downhills. Once again, in MI, we have fast well groomed singletrack. I've ridden Southern Cal, and in the loose fast stuff out there, I would probably recommend something with a little more knobs (Kenda Karma, or Racing Ralph come to mind). I've ridden Moab too though, and these babys would be sweet on the slickrock.

THE VERDICT-If you are racing XC, I would recommend these tires 100%. They work awesome. For day to day riding, I would go with something with a little more meat on it. If you are looking for an easy way to get a little more speed in the flats or drop some weight off your bike, these tires are an easy way to do just that. I've been riding with them all year, and to be honest, I am going to switch to something else soon. I really like them, but after purchasing 5 of them so far, and probably another one tomorrow, the delicateness of them is starting to outweigh the lightweightness.

I also feel like (Not too toot my own horn or anything, but just being honest) I am pretty awesome in the flats and climbing already, so I would be willing to sacrifice a little speed in those areas in favor of handling. I suck at tight twisty handling, and want a grippier tire when it comes to the tight stuff. Just an FYI, I probably have about 1000 miles offroad with these tires.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

5 tires, going on 6 in one season... are you kidding? that is terrible. i have 3 seasons on a set of twister SS at 350g and 370 each, plus they have a real side knob and last..


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## cpeterson (Nov 9, 2007)

i have a set of furious freds. a standard tire on a SLR with stans, it has held for 7 weeks, it is time to refresh the stans. I have used them for racing only and it seems to be holding up just fine. they are super fast and so light it changes how the bike rides, and the accelleration is amazing. they are plenty strong and so much more sturdy than I ever expected a tire so light to be.


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

Been on the SAME SET of FF 2.25s all season. 8 podiums total (3 wins, 4 2nds, 1 3rd..plus 1 4th, 1 DNF, and one 12hr solo w/ 126 miles) on the tires. Some courses were brutal(Fontana NC, Fort Mtn N Ga). Zero problems. Zero. Better traction then my trusty Karmas. Just won on them this past Sunday.

Thats 'reasonable durability' in my book.

Prolly use them in the very brutal Fools Gold 50 in 2 weeks. Yes, I'm prolly pushing my luck..

Obligatory pic 








Edit:Correction:2 of those podiums was on Karma's. My bad.


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

Duckman-

What set up are you using? Do you use tubes? Are they the same tires? Do you ride the tires all the time, or for racing only? I'm not knocking them, I'm just saying that I've had durability issues with them.


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

sonyisdope said:


> Duckman-
> 
> What set up are you using? Do you use tubes? Are they the same tires? Do you ride the tires all the time, or for racing only? I'm not knocking them, I'm just saying that I've had durability issues with them.


Stans.

Race only.

Same set of tires.

I've seen FF problems(flats) w the 2.0s fwiw.


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## MISTER FUNKTASTIC (Aug 2, 2008)

*Furious Fred*

Would you consider using this tire as a urban road tire on a MTB?

I do most of my riding, about 95% on pavement.


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## MISTER FUNKTASTIC (Aug 2, 2008)

*Furious Fred*

Hi to everyone in this forum,

I have just read every post in this thread and I'm glad I did, they've been very interesting.

I had just ordered a pair of FF's (26x2.0 UST) for my GT Avalanche 1.0. I ride mainly on the road, about 90% road and 10% hard trail. I was concerned I'd be doing nothing but fixing flats. Even on the trails I don't do anything as competitive or demanding as some of you guys. I am using Kenda Small Block Eights right now (26x2.35). I just upgraded to Mavic 819 Disc and wanted a light tubeless tire that is very fast rolling for the street. The RR's wern't in stock from the distributer so they talked me into FF's.

I belong to the Toronto Bike Network. Every Sunday morn we do a Tourist ride which is about 100-130 km in distance and I wanted something that would give me an edge over the road/racing bikes that I ride with. I have to keep up with them at an avg. speed of 30 km/hr, without buying a road bike. I love the comfort and stying of the GT Avalanche.

I'll be putting the tires on tomrrow for a Friday night ride with the club.
I'll keep you informed.


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## JaLove (Dec 24, 2006)

Duckman said:


> Stans.
> 
> Race only.
> 
> ...


What tires are you guys training on? The 2.25s sound really good. I'm looking for a higher volume tire for my fully rigid race bike. Is there a more durable tire for day to day riding--like maybe the Karma 2.0 or 2.2, or the Conti Race King SS--that comes close to the handling characteristics of these tires? I almost willing to drop some cash on a couple pair of these babies, but I'm still hesitant.


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

My "training" bike(24lb beater NRS) has 2.2 Karmas at both ends currently(my pic for what your looking for). 

Another wheelset with 2.0 Karmas are used as well. 

Yet another wheelset w 2.1 Ignitor front/Ranchero rear.


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

Funktastic-

I would not recommend these tires for use on the road because the casing is pretty thin, and there are large gaps between the knobs (what few knobs there are). I ride a lot to a local trail near me, and it is a 15 mile ride on the road to get there, and I can see where the pavement is wearing the tire between knobs. They do roll fast on the road, but you will probably wear pretty quickly on the road. The rubber on them also seems pretty soft.

Party.


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## MISTER FUNKTASTIC (Aug 2, 2008)

*Furious Fred*

It's TOO late, they've been on the bike for the last couple of days.

I have the tubeless version and the casing is not at all that thin. I don't expect them to last more than 1 season, but I just had to try them. I will go with the Racing Ralphs nest time. They are pretty darn fast. I'm gonna be playing with the tire pressure over the next week.

Thanks for the advice though.

:thumbsup:


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## JaLove (Dec 24, 2006)

It's too bad that they don't have a 2.25 UST version of these out. Even at just under 600 grams, I think they'd be worth it.


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## andyk (Aug 7, 2008)

Just a quick one, but how would these roll for road use, in comparison to something like a Specialized Crossroad tire, or a Kojak? I am looking to change to these mainly for weight purposes, but have heard they are "as fast rolling as a slick"?! 

Anyone back this up?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*well...*



andyk said:



> Just a quick one, but how would these roll for road use, in comparison to something like a Specialized Crossroad tire, or a Kojak? I am looking to change to these mainly for weight purposes, but have heard they are "as fast rolling as a slick"?!
> 
> Anyone back this up?


just about ANY tire will roll faster than a Specialized!!!

those are well known to be boat anchors.even the newest models.


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## Cabdoctor (Jun 22, 2006)

I'm coming off Michelin XCR Drys, Dry 2s, and ATs in the front on muddy days. How would these compare in terms of grip? I train and race in NorCal so its very dry and loomy.


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## MISTER FUNKTASTIC (Aug 2, 2008)

*Furious Fred's Leaking Tread*

Hey all, I purchased my FF's last week and since hen I've had a problem with loosing tire pressure overnight. It started with 5 psi to 12 and then to 20. I did a dunk test and found the tires were leaking at the tread. I couldn't believe it, they are leaking at those small tear-drop shaped flat knobs all around the tire.

Anyone else having this strange problem?

They are under warranty and will be replaced.

Wonder if I should go with the Racing Ralph's instead.

:madman:


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## andyk (Aug 7, 2008)

Just a quick one, how would the furious fred non-ust 2.0 roll on the tarmac in comparison to a slick? something like a conti sport contact 1.6, or kojak?

Really want to get some, but am worried that they will not roll fast enough on the road.


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## MISTER FUNKTASTIC (Aug 2, 2008)

*Furiuos Fred's*

The FF's are the fastest MTB tire, and very light. But, I doubt that they are going to be faster than a slick. The only way you'll be able to compare them is to actually try the FF's. I had Small Block Eights before the FF's and there's no comparison. The FF's are alot faster.

An added note; my leaking FF's were replaced with a new pair that are good, only loosing 1 lb overnight.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

MISTER FUNKTASTIC said:


> The FF's are the fastest MTB tire, and very light. But, I doubt that they are going to be faster than a slick. The only way you'll be able to compare them is to actually try the FF's. I had Small Block Eights before the FF's and there's no comparison. The FF's are alot faster.


This is purely anecdotal, but I find that the FF actually feels quicker on the road than the Kojak slick. I attribute this to the FF having a "race" casing that's designed to consume low amounts of energy in deformation of the casing i.e. lower rolling resistance. Most slicks seem to be overbuilt, as in for regular commuter purposes, to be more durable and prevent flats but actually have high rolling resistance due to inefficient casings. It is important to note the tradeoff though in durability, as I have had a couple of punctures over the years with FFs on the road, when riding to and from my house to trailheads on the roads.


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## MISTER FUNKTASTIC (Aug 2, 2008)

*Furious Fred's Tread Leaking*

This is my second set of FF's. The first ones were replaced un warranty.
The tires are perfect when installed and not used, loosing only 1 - 2 lb of air overnight.
The very next day I did a 120km ride along some rail trails. I started at 55 psi and end with 14 in the rear and 22 in the front. I got home pumped air in them and put them in the tub to test the leakage.

*They are again leaking right through the tread !*

Is anyone else having a similiar problem?

I will not try a 3rd set. I will switch to Racing Ralph's.

I'll be contacting Schwalbe again to notify them that the 2nd set is also leaking through the tread.

Very dissapointed in these tires.

:madman: :madmax:


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## scarsellone (Oct 17, 2005)

I have the UST 2.0, & i'm using air only & it is fine. I have the 2.25 up front, but could not get air in it to run tubless! I'm running a tube for a few day's then will try to use sealant again?


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Funktastic - are they UST or normal ones that are leaking?


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

Heres a Racing Ralph 2.25(first gen). Pic taken tonight. The tires been sitting for about 3 weeks. No obvoius leaks on the tread here LOL! (yes all those wet spots are slight leaks. altho the tire stays hard for weeks). Of course this tires been thrashed since early 04...


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## MISTER FUNKTASTIC (Aug 2, 2008)

*Furious Fred - Email's from Schwalbe*

Hey Tiffster, they are UST 26x2.0 that leak through the tread.

Here are the email's between Schwalbe and myself regarding the problem of the tires leaking throught the tread. They admit that the tires will leak throught the tread due to being built so light. They recommend using a sealant to help with this problem and are willing to ship me a free bottle.

However, the leakage is so great that I don't know how well the sealant will work.
I loose all tire pressure in an 8-10 hour period. (Basically flat at the end of my ride)

*Here are the email's:*

From: MISTER FUNKTASTIC
Date: 8/26/2008 6:39:05 PM
To: Klaus Moser
Subject: RE: FW: Furious Fred's leaking through the tread !!

Hi Klaus, I just want to clarify that this is not what I call a slow leak.
They drop from 55 PSI to 14 PSI in an 8-10 hour time span. With that
said, how can Schwalbe call these tubeless tires if I need a sealant to
prevent this. Actually, I'm not sure how effective the sealant will be. The 
tires have several, about 50-60 areas on the tire where the air escapes
through the top of tread.

Nonetheless, here is my mailing address:

XXXXXXXXXX XXXX
XXX XXXXXX XXXXX
XXXXXXXX XXXXX

Charles

http://funktasticmusicvids.blogspot.com/
-------Original Message-------

From: Klaus Moser
Date: 8/25/2008 2:13:49 PM
To: MISTER FUNKTASTIC
Subject: RE: FW: Furious Fred's leaking through the tread !!

Hi Charles,

We have been advised by Schwalbe Germany that this slow leak thru the tread is due to the fact that this tire is built so light. That being said, even when we send you another set there is a possibility of this happening again. The recommendation is to use some sealant.

So, considering that replacing the tires may not solve the problem, we are more than happy to send a bottle of our sealant Doc Blue free of charge.

Kindly provide us with your shipping address so we can mail our sealant to you.

Best regards,

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Klaus Moser

Customer Service

SCHWALBE NORTH AMERICA

A Division of Moser Enterprises Incorporated

USA and CANADA

1-888-700-5860 / 250-598-0397 ext: 100

www.schwalbetires.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: MISTER FUNKTASTIC [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 11:16 AM
To: Klaus Moser
Subject: RE: FW: Furious Fred's leaking through the tread !!

Hi Klaus, how would we go about the tire exchange?

I would have to receive the new tires from you first before I can send

back my tires.

I am hesitant on trying a 3rd set, however I am hoping that they will come from a different batch then those that Lambert has in stock.

Feel free to call me at (Charles)

416-543-1171 cell

416-915-2143 home

Charles

http://funktasticmusicvids.blogspot.com/

-------Original Message-------

From: Klaus Moser

Date: 8/22/2008 5:31:44 PM

To: MISTER FUNKTASTIC

Subject: RE: FW: Furious Fred's leaking through the tread !!

Hello Charles,

Thank you for the information. So, this is a UST tire mounted on a UST rim. We will pass this on to our R&D Department and give you our findings when available. We are not aware of a bad batch at this time. Please hold on to the leaking tires as we may need them for inspection.

Unfortunately, we are still waiting for Racing Ralph UST tires but we are more than happy to give you a set of Furious Fred UST as replacement.

Please let us know if this is agreeable.

Best regards,

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Klaus Moser

Customer Service

SCHWALBE NORTH AMERICA

A Division of Moser Enterprises Incorporated

USA and CANADA

1-888-700-5860 / 250-598-0397 ext: 100

www.schwalbetires.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: MISTER FUNKTASTIC [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 10:45 AM
To: Klaus Moser
Subject: Re: FW: Furious Fred's leaking through the tread !!

These are mounted on a brand new set of Mavic 819 UST wheels.

This was part of a $1200 upgrade I made at Cycle Path North York.

You can contact them at 416-512-2538 (Gino - Owner)

No sealant is being used. They do not leak at the rims at all.

I would like to replace them with Racing Ralph's 26x2.1 UST,

Unfortunately Lambert is out of stock.

Do you have stock of these?

Is there a manufacturing defect on a batch of tires that are leaking

through the tread.

Charles

http://funktasticmusicvids.blogspot.com/

-------Original Message-------

From: Klaus Moser

Date: 8/22/2008 1:14:21 PM

To: [email protected]

Subject: FW: Furious Fred's leaking through the tread !!

Hello Charles,

We are sorry to hear about the problem you encountered with our tires.

We will pass this information on to our R&D Department but first we just need to clarify if you are talking about a UST tire or a regular tire converted to Tubeless. Also, on what rims are the tires mounted?

Thank you very much.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Klaus Moser

Customer Service

SCHWALBE NORTH AMERICA

A Division of Moser Enterprises Incorporated

USA and CANADA

1-888-700-5860 / 250-598-0397 ext: 100

www.schwalbetires.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:46 AM
To: Klaus Moser
Subject: Furious Fred's leaking through the tread !!

Submitted on 08/22/2008 - 09:42
Submitted by anonymous user: [72.140.100.12]

Submitted values are:
Your email address: [email protected]
Subject: Furious Fred's leaking through the tread !!
Message text:
Hi, this is my 2nd set of FF's. The 1st were replaced by Lambert in Ontario.
The tires are fine when first installed without riding. A loss of only 1lb overnight.
The next day I went for a 120km ride. I started at 55 PSI and by 6pm the rear was 14 and the front was 22 PSI. I arrived at home and filled the tires with air and put them in the tub. The air bubbles are coming directly from the treads. When I removed the tires from the water I could clearly see the fizzing and bubbling of water on the tires suface. I could also hear the air escaping through the tread as is fizzes on the tire surface. I have reported the initial problem with the first set of tires and have not received a call back as of yet.

I will not be trying a 3rd set of FF's !

You can contact me live at:

Charles Molnar 416-543-1171 or 416-915-2413

Thank you

The results of this submission may be viewed at:
http://www.schwalbetires.com/contact_us?sid=605


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*and what did you learn??*

UST is crap. get regular tires with selant and be happy with them.


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## ginsu2k (Jul 28, 2006)

nino said:


> oh - i forgot to include the most actual graph


Nino, that test is completely skewed, it's comparing a bunch of wide tires to the very narrow Furious Fred. I don't know why they couldn't compare the FF directly to tires that are also 2.0" width.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

If the UST tyres are leaking like that i wouldnt bother with them, just get the normal ones and use some sealant. Same result but 200grams lighter.


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

Furious Freds=NOT FLAT RESISTANT AT ALL.

Yeah, I know I posted up how I went through a bunch of them. Well, tonight I went through 2 more. From what I gather, the people that post that they have not had issues with them do 2 things. . .

#1-Don't ride

#2-Don't ride aggressively.

For #1, they might seal up, but if you don't put miles on your bike, you input doesn't apply. For #2, well, #2 applied to me, but then I started riding harder this year, and they haven't stood up. I cannot argue with how fast they roll, but when it comes to rocky, rooty, or anything that is not smooth well groomed singletrack, they suck. I get way too many flats with them. I went through 2 more tires tonight. I am done with the ridiculously expensive FF's. I will get some Racing Ralphs in the future.

I don't want to say that the Furious Freds are crap. If you read the description on the website, that is completely accurate. They are NOT flat resistant, you can use them with sealant, but that won't help your cause. If you don't want to use tubes and you ride a lot, get something else. If you want the fastest rolling tires out right now, get these, but be prepared.


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## williford (Dec 8, 2005)

*Somewhat flat resistant*



sonyisdope said:


> Furious Freds=NOT FLAT RESISTANT AT ALL.
> 
> Yeah, I know I posted up how I went through a bunch of them. Well, tonight I went through 2 more. From what I gather, the people that post that they have not had issues with them do 2 things. . .
> 
> ...


Come on now, they aren't THAT bad. I use the 2.25" RaceGuard version, which admittedly is the beefiest version they make (all have been around 434 grams BTW) and I have been more than pleased with them. I have only flatted once (during the 24 hours in the OP), and I have raced them front and back in Fruita (sand and rock) and Nathrop (dirt, stickers, and some rocks) and on the back in Crested Butte ski resort (mostly smooth but some roots and rocks). They are a little squirly on the front but unless it's muddy, you could race one on the back at almost any MSC series race.


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## cabbgage (Jul 20, 2008)

*tyre pressure*

Ive had my furious freds for a while now, and there are some things i dont like; eg fast wear and cost. I have been reading these links, and im no profesiional but to run these tyres at 55psi is a joke, no wonder they leak, try droping 25psi and you will enjoy these tyres as they shoud be....fast and furious


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## karlmalone1 (Mar 27, 2008)

cabbgage said:


> Ive had my furious freds for a while now, and there are some things i dont like; eg fast wear and cost. I have been reading these links, and im no profesiional but to run these tyres at 55psi is a joke, no wonder they leak, try droping 25psi and you will enjoy these tyres as they shoud be....fast and furious


What's wrong with running them at 55psi? Wouldn't they just roll quicker?


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

At that pressure the tyre wont mould to the surface its moving over meaning poor grip on an already low grip tyre.... There's fast rolling then there's just having no grip at all - i wouldn't want to try take a corner at speed with one.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

karlmalone1 said:


> What's wrong with running them at 55psi? Wouldn't they just roll quicker?


high pressure is only faster on the road, slower on all trail surfaces, it has been proven. higher pressure also wears out a tire faster apparently.

you go faster at lower pressure, more traction, less deflection so less rolling resistance = going faster. high pressure may "feel" fast, but it is not.

used to race at 40 psi, go a lot faster at 30 psi - now even faster in the low 20's all on the same tire and the handling is WAY better. lower pressure is better.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Rollingresistance....*

we had this debate on an on...here's some new graphs from german BIKE magazine where they tested rollingresistance with some SRM-cranks,GPS,heratrate etcetc...

*Tire Pressure:*
as you can see only on the road higher tire pressure results in minor savings. already on gravel/crushed stone the rolling resistance is MORE using higher pressure as is on soft soil like meadow where the more pressure the more rollingresistance you get.

all this means that in offroad situations usually LOWER IS FASTER !!

Have a look at the soft soil where 1.5 watt tire pressure saves you 18 watt energy compared to 4 bar pressure.

*Tire width:*
once again the old-school thinking of slim is fast is wrong. it has been proven that WIDER IS FASTER. they tested different width tires of the same brand/model and you can clearly see that even on paved roads the wide tire is just a fraction behind the slim tires but as soon as the soil gets soft the wider tire rolls dramatically faster.

on soft soil wider tires are 15% faster than their slim brothers!

My personal conclusion is:
we all know that from a certain tire pressure on up tires feel overinflated and deflect off of bumbs. i also used to run 1.5 Conti XC tires at max. 4,5 bar (65 psi) about 15 years ago and i felt fast and comfortable by doing so....but the ride gets bumby and you loose grip.by looking at these graphs i think it is pretty obvious that optimum tire pressure is around 2 bar ( 29 psi) for mixed terrain and even lower if you do ride on soft soil. now this changes for sure from tire to tire and logically also with different rider weight or riding style but i think these graphs give a good idea and baseline. What i also learned and just got proof is that wider tires are indeed faster. i just mounted some HUGE ballon-like Conti RaceKing 2.2 and have to admit i'm really faster. i will do some fore-aft testing width my old and trusty Nokian NBX but these new Contis indeed seem to be the hot-ticket.

Also important: these graphs show rollingresistances BUT they don't show the grip-level or comfort or how well a tire behaves at different pressure settings. so even if you might get better readings at a certain pressure it still may actually feel weird out on the trail so you might still be faster width more /or less pressure than what would be ideal for lowest rolling resistance...got the point?

anyway - it just shows that differences in rollingresistance can be HUGE and eat away a good part of our precious energy.


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

*Hey...*

Thanks, Nino. That was a great post. Very helpful. :thumbsup:

Those graphs seem to confirm the sensations I have when riding my big-bag Racing Ralphs.

F.


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

sonyisdope said:


> Well, the Furious Freds didn't give me a victory, but did work awesome! I got the front to seal up fine on a CrossMax SLR with the standard version and some NoTubes sealant. I run them at about 30 psi (about 10 more than I ran the Crows at) and they feel like the roll fast AND grip just as good. I was skeptical of the tread pattern at first but in "dry, twisty, Michigan singletrack" they are perfect!


Its my 1st time to run tubeless on my 08 CrossMax SLR and was just wondering how you did it to yours. I'm also going to use non UST Furious Freds. Do I still need the special Stan's rim tape or do I just mount the tire, ad stans goop, pump it up and ride? Hope you can help me out. Thank you very much!


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## cabbgage (Jul 20, 2008)

i believe crossmax slr are tubeless rims so they dont need rim tape. Ive given up on furious fred's due to too many riped side walls that stans fluid won't fix. Im now running conti race kings that i feel are working really well and are a bit stronger. On a training hill about 6% gradient, hard pack, and rocks, which takes about half an hour to climb, i knocked off about one minute climbing and THREE coming back down, so they work for me. Back to fixing tubeless tyres, you don't need UST tyres, they just weigh more. Use loads of soapy water and a compressor to get the beads to sit, then let the tyres down again and insert no tube solution through the valve hole. then you have to shake the wheel to get the solution to spread around. I believe the no-tubes web site has some videos showing this.
Tubeless tyres can be a real pain to fit, but eventually you will get there and you should have 3 or months of carefree riding until you need to put in more solution.


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## Cabdoctor (Jun 22, 2006)

Cabdoctor said:


> I'm coming off Michelin XCR Drys, Dry 2s, and ATs in the front on muddy days. How would these compare in terms of grip? I train and race in NorCal so its very dry and loomy.


Hey no one answered my question. And I'm up for buying tires again.


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## cabbgage (Jul 20, 2008)

I swopped from furious freds 1.9 to conti race king 2.2. At first they seemed massive, but they actually ride so much better. Up and down hills, I run them 22-24psi and could probably go even lower. Time will tell punture resistance, but after reading that report, im converted!!!!!


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

*thumbs up*

I've been running the big furious fred up front using stans tubeless on a Mavic rim. This is on my 20lbs ti hardtail, singlespeed. I usually ride this bike in the around-town, well-traveled not-too-rocky parks --the same kind of stuff you might find at an XC race, but I don't race single speed. I love the tire ...I didn't record the exact weight but it was around 325 gms or so. I run it with 24PSI and have never flatted or rolled it off the rim. One does have to be a bit more mindful of the lack of any substantial knobs up front though.


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## 88 rex (Aug 2, 2007)

Another fan of the Furious Fred here!! I have 2 races so far on it. One was mildly rocky and very rooty with some people have flatting issues. Fred pull through for me. I have the 2.25 and despite the relative slick look of the tire it has decent grip. I run it on the rear only, tubeless and about 28 psi. Sidewalls are thin, but not as thin as I thought they would be by the descriptions from this site. I'm still nervous about tears and am planning on keeping this tire on an extra wheel to preserve the tread. 

I'm not a fan of the pricing at all, but I got a price I couldn't refuse so I gave it a shot. My new fav rear tire!


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