# Danger! This beast may burn your eyes. Literally!



## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

The snow is melting here so it's time to setup a new light on my bike.

Thanks to Matt from CPF for his nice and very well-thought double-triple housing. So this time I'll go an easy way and build a new light from the "almost ready" kit.










I used two 16 watts XP-G R5 modules which are driven at 1.5A on full. The modules use master-slave interface so one button controls the both. The UI allows switching between 3 predefined levels. It also lets programming the ECO mode which can be smoothly adjusted between 0% and 50% and stored in the memory. I modified the firmware and now the light starts up with standby mode when the battery is connected the first time. As you see I don't use the power switch here. The light is fully managed by the click button.










The modules are very small so using connectors significantly saves time. The soldering work took about 30 minutes with a coffee break.










The flip side is very simple. No driver - no extra work. I connected both modules in parallel. Another two wires used for a click-button. You can also see the yellow master-slave link between the modules.










So the job is done. On this pic the light is running on the lowest level (about 0.2%) which was adjusted by the click button. The ECO programming is very easy, it's done just by one click (guess how?)










Now it's time to try it on full. The calculated output is about 2800 lumens. I do think it's still about 2500OTF based on the previous measurements of similar modules in a laboratory sphere.

Rather than taking beamshots I just put a piece of paper on the lens..










..and wow, the paper got smoking instantly. This beast is really bright. I had to take it away promptly as it might damage the plastic lenses.

PS. If you plan to go for Matt's housing (strongly recommend), make sure that you also ordered AR glasses from flashlightlens.com (it needs UCL OD24.7 ones). They're not included by default.


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## matthewm (Mar 29, 2009)

Thank You for the kind words and mini build up!

I am in awe of your light modules!


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Super-clean build with those nice connectors and wires.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Any beamshots "not on a wall" of these lights in action?? How does the beam compare to something like a lupine Wilma? I have some tough choices ahead for sure!!


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

bncrshr77 said:


> Any beamshots "not on a wall" of these lights in action?? ..


I already posted similar single (not double) triples with different CARCLO lenses which I tested in the trees about 2 weeks ago. I have finished with an animated comparison tool, use this link:

http://lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/blogs/beamshots/

The double-triple design of Matt's housing allows mixing. For single track I also plan to try the following combo: XP-E R3 cool's at 1.5A with 10507 lens for maximum throw + XP-E HEW R5 + 10507 frosted lens for the most bright flood ahead of bike.

With those connectors I can replace the modules in minutes without risky soldering. So I'm going to play with them, may be I'll post some combo beamshots too.


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

Quazzle

What are the connectors that you talk about, and are they available on your site?

Tim


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Super, super cool. :thumbsup: 

Quazzle, since you said the double/triple was connected in parallel I was just wondering...
Can the 1.5A versions be connected ( master/slave ) with one of the 1A versions? If so I like the idea of running the triple XP-E narrow @ 1.5A M/S with the triple XP-G narrow @ 1A.

Now if a way can be found to rig that double/triple housing with a handlebar remote this set-up could make the perfect handlebar set-up.

Quazzle, once again, thanks for all the triple options and thanks for all the feedback and pics. :thumbsup:


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## matthewm (Mar 29, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> Super, super cool. :thumbsup:
> 
> Quazzle, since you said the double/triple was connected in parallel I was just wondering...
> Can the 1.5A versions be connected ( master/slave ) with one of the 1A versions? If so I like the idea of running the triple XP-E narrow @ 1.5A M/S with the triple XP-G narrow @ 1A.
> ...


It is possible to use a three core cable through the cable gland and use an external momentary switch, I can supply such a cable if you place an order


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Wombat said:


> Quazzle
> What are the connectors that you talk about, and are they available on your site?
> Tim


Hi Tim, yes, already added


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> Super, super cool. :thumbsup:
> 
> Quazzle, since you said the double/triple was connected in parallel I was just wondering...
> Can the 1.5A versions be connected ( master/slave ) with one of the 1A versions? If so I like the idea of running the triple XP-E narrow @ 1.5A M/S with the triple XP-G narrow @ 1A....


thanks! 

Of course you connect any L333 versions any number in parallel as long as your battery is capable to provide the increased current. The consumed current is always limited at 2.6A per board.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

quazzle said:


> Hi Tim, yes, already added


Having the connectors pre-wired would make a Quazzle build a piece of cake, and help clear the optics much more easily. I think they'd be well worthwhile.

These super-flexible wires would make other small builds much easier too.


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## supajon (Sep 17, 2008)

How much area is required to heat sink two of these triples? What is the surface area of this design Matthew?


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## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

don't see much room to put in a taskled driver in this !?
so this housing only takes, 20mm LED modules with driver on it ?
without getting the driver on the housing , the thermal throttle would not work ether.
maybe a little bit more info on the space, what could be squeezed in be nice.


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

I have one of these housings, and it is actually designed for taskled drivers.
In the rear cavity there is a machined area just for the driver.
I used a maxflex in mine with 2 3up XPG R5 boards.
The thing is stupid bright, and makes a great bar light.
No need to run it over 1amp IMO.
Here is the original thread from CPF......

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ouble-Triple-(or-single)-XP-G-Host-2200-Lumen

If you look at the third picture down from the top that Quazzle posted above, you can see the pad that the driver is mounted to.

This housing is a work of art. Truely amazing, very well thought out and designed. I love mine.


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## matthewm (Mar 29, 2009)

savagemann said:


> I have one of these housings, and it is actually designed for taskled drivers.
> In the rear cavity there is a machined area just for the driver.
> I used a maxflex in mine with 2 3up XPG R5 boards.
> The thing is stupid bright, and makes a great bar light.
> ...


 Thank You!


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

video of paper burning


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## baexmeyer (May 13, 2004)

Quazzle,

What is the correct input voltage to run this setup. I am about to order the stuff needed but This will be my first attempt using your boards.

Brad


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## shanesbw (Aug 6, 2008)

Wow, just looked at your web site and you do some amazing lights.
Nice work with this one too.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

baexmeyer said:


> Quazzle,
> What is the correct input voltage to run this setup. I am about to order the stuff needed but This will be my first attempt using your boards.
> Brad


Hi Brad,

thanks, all boards operate at voltage range from 3.0V to 9.9V. But the "fully regulated" range (i.e. the range within the output doesn't depend on voltage) depends on the board "power grade":

A-type (16 watts): fully regulated from 6.0V to 9.9V
B-type (11 watts): fully regulated from 5.0V to 9.9V
C-type (7 watts): fully regulated from 3.0V to 9.9V

so in a nutshell for maximum output we recommend 2 lithium cells for A and B types and 1 or 2 cells for C type.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

quazzle said:


> Hi Brad,
> 
> thanks, all boards operate at voltage range from 3.0V to 9.9V. But the "fully regulated" range (i.e. the range within the output doesn't depend on voltage) depends on the board "power grade":
> 
> ...


So for a type A my 2S lipo 7.4v isnt ideal, as it's ideal to run it down to 5 volts and no lower to avoid damaging the cells from deep discharge? 2.5v per cell?

Have these boards got battery voltage monitoring yet?


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## mfj197 (Jan 28, 2011)

Goldigger said:


> So for a type A my 2S lipo 7.4v isnt ideal, as it's ideal to run it down to 5 volts and no lower to avoid damaging the cells from deep discharge? 2.5v per cell?


2S lipo is perfect:


quazzle said:


> so in a nutshell for maximum output we recommend 2 lithium cells for A and B types and 1 or 2 cells for C type.


Also according to quazzle's website the boards have temperature and low-voltage cutoffs, so no :madmax: flames.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

mfj197 said:


> 2S lipo is perfect:
> 
> Also according to quazzle's website the boards have temperature and low-voltage cutoffs, so no :madmax: flames.


Any idea what the voltage cut off is for each board? Cant find it on Quazzle's site..and still no datasheet for the 333


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

the low voltage cutoff is still 2.8V (the same as with L332 board). 
The smarter voltage monitoring should be released next month.
It's also needed in our new FL33 project

PS.
Sorry for the absent L333 datasheet. I planned to update it right after the testing of the final variant with enhanced battery and temp monitoring.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

quazzle said:


> the low voltage cutoff is still 2.8V (the same as with L332 board).
> The smarter voltage monitoring should be released next month.
> It's also needed in our new FL33 project
> 
> ...


If its 2.8v then this would surely damage a 2S lipo or 2S lion 7.4v? I thought that low voltage cut of for them was 2.5v per cell?

It will be fine if your using protected cells..but my lipo isnt..
Need to find a protection board for it.


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## mfj197 (Jan 28, 2011)

Goldigger said:


> If its 2.8v then this would surely damage a 2S lipo or 2S lion 7.4v? I thought that low voltage cut of for them was 2.5v per cell?
> 
> It will be fine if your using protected cells..but my lipo isnt..
> Need to find a protection board for it.


True, true. I had assumed it would cut off at 2.8v per cell, i.e. 5.6v on the recommended 2S pack. 2.8v on a 2S would be way too low for safe usage.


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

Quazzle are your L333 units shipping yet with the voltage monitoring? Are there other features that have been added as well? From what I understand, these features can be added if the board is shipped back to you if you have an older L333. It that true?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Hi, I had to change the board topology a bit and use different controller. So I'm sorry but it's not possible to "upgrade" L333 just by burning new firmware. Some hardware change is needed too.

The new board has new index L334 and yes, it includes many nice features as:
- 1S and 2S lithium battery monitoring
- Automatic battery detection (cell count)
- Automatic power reducing (soft) if less than 20% of charge left or temp reached 80C
- High variable PWM frequency on low modes (up to 8KHz)
- Many UI enhancements

- ... and as usual all can be configured even in small orders


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## Magnum9 (Jun 8, 2011)

When will the 334 boards be available on your website?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

in about 2 months I think. After we pass though all testing, update the datasheet and after release of FL33 which will use it as a primary engine.


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## baexmeyer (May 13, 2004)

Quazzle,

I have several of Matthew's housings and want to use your engine. I have scoured your website, but cannot find any details about programming. I see that you say it has 3 predefined levels, but I was wondering if there is a strobe option in the driver.

Thanks


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Hi, please start with this document (you can skip all till the last page)

This is not a fresh document, it explains L332 UI. The L333 (which is now active product) is a bit more complex. We have added a standby mode so you can eliminate a power switch in your design. To switch it off you need to press and hold the button for about 1sec (in any mode).

Also there're three common firmware versions:

#1. The light starts with standby mode when first connected to the battery. To operate the light you need a mom button (you can switch it ON/OFF, toggle levels, program and keep the ECO setting, activate strobes etc, see L332 UI by the link above)

#2. The light always starts with 100%. But both mom button and power-interrupt UI are supported.

#3. The light always starts with 2%. Both mom button and power-interrupt UI are supported.

Let me know of you have any further questions.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

by the way, there's a nice appnote of using mixed optics in GILI housing in the beamshot thread, see it here.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

I have been running a light with 9 XP-G Led's for around 8 months & really like the grunt of the light even if I run it on low most of the time & Med through most trails.


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## Persian_535i (Sep 27, 2011)

wow looks great


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## phburns (Sep 30, 2008)

Quazzle, what battery setup are you using with these? My runtime on high with ultrafire 3000mah (2 serial) is about 1.5 minutes, they just won't feed the beast. I know these are not the best batteries.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

I use a rather compact custom LiPo pack (6 cells in total, 2S3P).
The total capacity is about 2X 7500mah, it feeds the monster at full power (2X 16watts) during about 2 hours, not bad for me


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

today I have assembled another GILI, just a few practical hints for those who's going to try it with L333/L334 light engines:

1. A recommended wires layout (note that I used thin teflon wires for singals):



















2. Use plastic tie straps to secure the cable:


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Whats the L334 apart from an upgrade of the L333?

XPG S2's?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

even better electronics, more fuctions.
S2's can be installed on any board, there's no need to upgrade the product version just for that 

By the way, many CREE's official distrubutors still have no idea about S2 availability


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

quazzle said:


> even better electronics, more fuctions.
> S2's can be installed on any board, there's no need to upgrade the product version just for that
> 
> By the way, many CREE's official distrubutors still have no idea about S2 availability


What new functions will we see?
I had an email a few weeks ago saying that cutter had the S2 bins..
Cutter Electronics


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

I know, it's normal practice of CREE that they may sent you a better bin. 

Just an example from my experience. The highest efficiency of XP-E neutral now is R2 (this is a guaranteed minimum). But we received R3 instead of R2. So if you're lucky guy I may try to order 1K R5 (1 reel) from CREE. Potentially you may get S2 or even S3 (probably) but also you may stay with 1000 of R5's. This is a game which I'm not ready to play at this moment.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

see GILI compared with many brands in just released beamshot competition here FONAREVKA.RU


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## phburns (Sep 30, 2008)

he he he,  my screen is still trying to recover from the burn in


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2011)

If I were to get one of these, is there a DIY on how to wire it up or can someone give m a hand?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

as you can see on photos above the wiring is very simple. Here's the diagram:


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2011)

Whoa yeah very easy.


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

quazzle said:


> I use a rather compact custom LiPo pack (6 cells in total, 2S3P).
> The total capacity is about 2X 7500mah, it feeds the monster at full power (2X 16watts) during about 2 hours, not bad for me


Can you give us some more details on this Lipo pack? I'm assuming that you are referring to Lipoly packs that RC guys use to power their planes / cars / boats.

I searched Hobbyking and can't find a 2S3P Lipo pack. Is this custom?


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

use the quick search button on the hobbyking site, left hand side, below the menu's, type in "2s3p" I got 7 batteries and a receiver. Sorry would paste the link but it doesn't change the browser address when you search


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

ThinkBike said:


> Can you give us some more details on this Lipo pack? I'm assuming that you are referring to Lipoly packs that RC guys use to power their planes / cars / boats.
> 
> I searched Hobbyking and can't find a 2S3P Lipo pack. Is this custom?


yes it's a custom. I used LiPo cells but they're not quite usual. The ones I have are rated at just about 2C discharge rate but have a way more increased capacity. These cells a commonly used in portative electronics, I got them directly from a factory


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2011)

emu26 said:


> use the quick search button on the hobbyking site, left hand side, below the menu's, type in "2s3p" I got 7 batteries and a receiver. Sorry would paste the link but it doesn't change the browser address when you search


like so?

HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : ZIPPY Flightmax 5700mAh 2S3P 25C saddle pack

seems very cheap. Matthewm was saying to use a 14.6v pack with the maxflex at 100 bucks a pop. Why are these so much cheaper using These LED modules? And why do these take 7,4v and not 14.6v? And can someone link me to a charger?


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

nattyboh, not sure about what quazzles boards need to drive them so can't answer the second part of the question.

I think those batteries you have linked are actually 2, 3.7volt batteries, so only 1s. They come with wires so that you can wire them together giving you a 2s or 7.4v battery. If you have spare lights that need a 3.7v battery, ie single li-ion driven from a lflex, then these might be a good option giving you the flexibility of either a 3.7 or 7.4v battery. If you only need the 7.4 v 2s battery then I think you are better with a single unit, rather than having to wire up two individual units. More to go wrong.

If you need a 7.4v battery and really want that sort of capacity then have a look on this search page scroll down and you'll see a couple of ployquest batteries over 5000mAh around $70 and some rhino's that are cheaper.

hope this helps


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2011)

I think so haha. But thanks for giving it a shot. Im new to the LED stuff and the more I read, the more I get confused. I hope someone can post up a battery pack that I can use along with a charger.

like Im unsure on which battery I actually need. In terms of style ( I guess thats the right word ), mAH etc. I know the higher the mAH the higher the run time.


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

nattyboh74 said:


> like so?
> 
> HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : ZIPPY Flightmax 5700mAh 2S3P 25C saddle pack
> 
> seems very cheap. Matthewm was saying to use a 14.6v pack with the maxflex at 100 bucks a pop. Why are these so much cheaper using These LED modules? And why do these take 7,4v and not 14.6v? And can someone link me to a charger?


Quazzle's LED light engines combine the LEDs with the regulator on the same board. He has 3 different types of LED engines, A, B and C. Each one has a different range of voltages that the onboard regulator can handle.

A=DC 6.0V-9.9V 1550mA
B=DC 4.5V-9.9V 1100mA
C=DC 2.8V-9.9V 750mA

The A modules are the brightest and draw the most power. B and C produce fewer lumens and draw less power.

Lipo packs are cheaper. Puncturing them can cause them to vent with flames. Just look up Lipo Fires on YouTube. Most people that race R/C planes, boats, cars, helicopters, etc use Lipo packs. They are also very much aware of the damage than can be done when something goes wrong with one of these packs. Because of the danger, it's not uncommon for Lipo users to charge their packs in a fireplace, bucket of sand, steel box , etc. There are quite a few users that will not charge their Lipo packs in their house.

So, why use Lipo packs? They're inexpensive, have a high power to weight ratio and can be charged quickly with the right equipment. They also can produce a large amount of power in a very short period of time, with very little voltage sag. This is important for the R/C racing crowd, but not so much for those of us powering lights.

Why are Lipo packs dangerous? If you take the shrink wrap off a typical pack, you'll see that it's basically a battery in a foil pouch with very little protection. If you puncture one of these foil packs and it vents with flames while you're close enough, you get to be the flaming marshmallow at the cookout.:madmax:

One of the links was to a saddle pack. The saddle pack part is not important, but you'll notice that it's a hardcase pack. Instead of shrink wrapping the foil battery pouches, they are placed into a hard plastic case for a little added protection. In many cases, if you race R/C cars at a track, you are required to use only approved hardcase packs. No hardcase, no race. In fact, it's not uncommon for these tracks to have fire extinguishers strategically placed around the track.

Lipo packs are so susceptible to damage that as little as a 1mm or 2mm dent in the side of a cell has been known to render that cell dead or substantially reduce the power of that cell, which eventually reduces the lifespan of the pack.

Again, why use these packs? Economics and performance. They are so relatively inexpensive that users have calculated that they can afford to throw one away every once in a while.

Sometimes a pack will puff up. A puffed pack is more likely to catch fire and is typically close to the end of it's lifespan. When using an inexpensive pack, it's occasionally possible for it to puff after just 5 or 10 uses. R/C forums are full of threads discussing this problem.

You'll notice that most commercial manufacturers of bike lights don't use Lipo packs. I won't insult your intelligence by explaining why.

If you're going to use a Quazzle A module, you'll need a lot of power if you're using two of them in matthewm's housing. With two of those modules you're looking at a potential 2800 lumens.

If you're going to go with A modules, A 2S3P (2 series, 3 parallel) battery pack made up of quantity (6) 3.7v 18650 lithium ion batteries is probably your best bet. You'll need a pack with that much power to get approximately 2 hours of riding with the lights on high. The batteries should have a capacity of 2900 mAh to 3100 mAh. One of the better batteries is the panasonic NCR18650 and NCR18650A. They're not cheap.

For a B or C module with fewer lumens, the battery requirement can be considerably less.

I don't know how to answer the question regarding the Lflex drivers. I'll let someone else handle that.


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2011)

Whoa thanks man. So to sum it up, stick with lithium ion... its safer, but mor expensive ok.

Im going to be running ( this is what he ran in his housing supposedly ) :

L333 Mc-XPG-H51-A
L333 Mc-XPE-F01-B

So thats one A and one B... I cannot believe something as simple as batteries can confused me this much. I think the lumens would be WAY higher using two XPgs right? He said ( assuming he told me correctly ) running the XPG and the XPE was 2800 lumes, but OTF 2500 lumens. As seen here ( http://forums.mtbr.com/8237651-post67.html ) That first screen shot looks awesome to me, thats what Im after. Some throw and flood. Kinda reminds me of fog lights on a car haha.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

by the way, I can setup the XP-E's @ 1.5A (there's no such product code as CREE do not recommed exceeding 1 amps). You can put it in the special instruction field if needed. I used it during last season (650km), no issues. But no guarantee either


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2011)

Ahh so hmm... Maybe I would be better going with XPGs then. Id rather have reliability well, a better chance at it haha


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## misunderestimated (Apr 15, 2009)

ThinkBike said:


> You'll notice that most commercial manufacturers of bike lights don't use Lipo packs. I won't insult your intelligence by explaining why.


lotsa rubbish said here. you think dinotte's original batteries were safe? how about magicshine? those were cheap li-ion.

bet you there's a lipo sitting in your pocket right now. (cell phone).

RC guys don't use protection pcb's thats the difference. They also prefer lipo mainly because of weight (no metal casing) & there's also slightly higher energy density as well, and they can be thinner, smaller etc.
li-ion and li-poly both can vent. li-ion can explode as they are built into a metal container. .


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2011)

OK. So lol. What's another alternative I can run?


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## jbflyfshr (Jul 24, 2006)

Disposable Alkalines are the only real option for now...if you don't like the LiIon choices. Newer types are still way more than lipos.

Ni-hm don't have the same capacity either but are better than the alkalines.

If you have the right charger then you don't have to worry as much about the LiIon or Li-po but never say never. I just don't leave them for more than a couple of minutes while charging myself with a B6 type charger. Maybe fooling myself anyway but that is what insurance is for right? 

JB


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2011)

Money isn't an issue, just can't go crazy. 

I need a charger, and one or two packs at 2 hours run time roughly.


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## misunderestimated (Apr 15, 2009)

bro, if money isn't an issue commission quazzle or the guy on cpf to build it for you. It will probably cost you as much as_ your_ time wasted and all those shipping fees on small parts.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2011)

No no hah the only issue I'm having now is the batteries. I need a pack and a charger


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## cobraklein (Mar 14, 2011)

what does the 1k mean in the diagram


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

it's a resistor, like this Digi-Key - CF18JT1K00CT-ND (Manufacturer - CF18JT1K00)


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## cobraklein (Mar 14, 2011)

ok all purchased. now it seeing your diagrams. i didn't see it in any of your build pictures. do you have it behind those heat shrink plastic tubings


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## Reign2Rider (Jan 28, 2010)

Quazzle, by the way, The Gili requires 26.8mm glass not 24.7. A restore on CPF brought back the wrong size. Its been altered now.
So do we have to add the resistor to the switch line or is it already built into the board?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

L333 still needs this resistor


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

Quazzle, when hooking up a remote switch to the L333, does it matter what gauge wire you use?

Could I use a small 22 gauge wire?

Would a larger gauge be more reliable?

I was thinking of using silicone wire since it might be less likely to break when bending it around the handlebars and routing it underneath the brake hoods (on road bike).


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

you can use any gauge for button wiring as the signaling current is almost zero. of course flexible silicone wires work better


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## tybeede (Apr 2, 2011)

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger for a parts order to make a similar light. I'm hoping this BOM will help anybody else who is interested in doing the same. Also, if you spot anything I am missing please post it up. This is my first light build and I've been looking online for hours at parts! I already have an OKi PS-800 iron and plenty of solder and heat shrink tubing in different sizes. I think I've got all the light specific parts covered here.










This is what I'm planning to combine with the two sides of the housing. I realy like the Lux-RC parts and site based on my research.


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## Reign2Rider (Jan 28, 2010)

You need 26.8mm lens not 28.6. They dont have them listed at the moment, i would drop them a line.


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

I'd use the geomangear 6.0 Ah battery pack instead of trying to build your own. Mostly I 'd pick the Geomangear because it's very well designed. You'll need every Ah of power you can get with a 32 watt light.

Panasonic cells used in the pack

Battery pack testing.

Your costs for building your own pack come to approx $72.


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## tybeede (Apr 2, 2011)

I took a hard look at the specs for the recommended pack. That is an amazing package for the price. Those 3100 mha Panasonic li-ions are no joke! Those loose cells don't seem to be for sale from a decent source here in the states. It also looks to have a standard barrel connector so I'm assuming it could be recharged from the style of charger I listed above.


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

Ty, you're correct, those cells are some of the best. I would use the charger that geomangear sells. It's only about $10.00. Those cells are 3.6V each as opposed to 3.7v. After reading the PDFs supplied on their site, they seem to know what they are doing. If they say that a particular charger is best for that pack, I believe them. I'm sure they had their own charger in mind when they designed the pack and electronics for the pack.

I tried to enlarge the picture of the charger, but couldn't quite make out the charging amp hours. It looks like 1.5 or 1.8. I could be wrong though. Call or contract them through their site. They do respond. Also ask them if the connector on the pack will work with Trail Tech or they can tell you what connector to use.


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## tybeede (Apr 2, 2011)

Copy on the size of the glass and the out of stock at UCL. The UCL is 26.8mm x 1.85mm and a generic from DX is 26.8mm x 1.4mm. I should be able to shim in the extra 0.45mm = ~0.018in with something I've got laying around or at a last resort the big yellow book at McMaster-Carr.

Also, anybody have good ideas for a momentary handlebar switch?

I'm hoping to get lucky with the project and have this assembled for an event coming up.


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## tybeede (Apr 2, 2011)

Great, I didn't see the charger on their site but that is being added to the list of parts to get from them. 

Is there any special thermal paste recommended for an L333 board?


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## tybeede (Apr 2, 2011)

So this light project is costing me a bit of sleep! Here is my current BOM of parts which is evolving rather quickly. Open in trade space is sourcing the teflon wires and connectors from digikey direct vs. lux-rc. Digikey is always prompt and I never have trouble getting random stuff quick. I got lucky with an mtbr.com classified ad sourcing optics and L333s for the project. That means shipping from Russia will be kinda spendy just for some wires and builds in some schedule risk due to the distance. However, I don't have a part number for the needed connectors to attach with the lux-rc board. Hopefully somebody has some dimensions or a part number?

The momentary switch is also an open trade and I still need to research tech for it. I figure at least the light will shine with what I have currently planned.


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

I wouldn't order the 100 feet of wire and some connectors that you think might work (from Digikey). 

I'd order the qty (2) BA-CONN-KIT from Lux-RC. The connectors are already soldered on and you'll save yourself the most difficult part of putting the whole thing together; the connection of the power leads and signal wires. You know this connector kit will work because it's designed for it. 

There's nothing more frustrating than buying a bunch of parts that look like they should go together, only to find out that they are a fraction of a mm to big or small to fit properly. This is one headache you don't want.


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## borrower (Feb 26, 2011)

The connector comes on the ba-conn-kit, or go to digikey, "CONN SOCKET PCB FOR 0.5MM PIN" 952-1457-ND

edit: just noticed your wire... hoffmanamps.com will sell you short sections of good wire. 

And if you're ordering from DX already, you can search "magicshine connectors" to find long and short cables that I ***think*** will be compatible with the geomangear battery. (People have criticized these cables in the past for being too thin, but I think they're adequate.) While you're at DX, they have a megapack of heatshrink that always comes in handy. (But don't load too much crap on a dx order -- otherwise, murphy's law specifies that they'll be out of stock on one thing and stall your order forever. Since it's free shipping, plenty of people do one-item-per-order.) 

Oh, and one other thing, your BOM doesn't have the 1k resistor that Quazzle suggests.


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## borrower (Feb 26, 2011)

One more post on the 0.5mm connector: one version of it is a Harwin H3153-01 (tin shell), available at (among others) Mouser in the UK as p/n 855-H3153-01. This is the version that's 3.6mm long, and 1mm OD, for a 0.5mm post. (Harwin makes others, so I thought I'd clarify.)


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

guys, when soldering the connectors please make sure that you remove the cap from the plus connector. it should be shortened, see the pictures above. this is important.


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## cobraklein (Mar 14, 2011)

would that geoman batterypack work good for a master slave xpe-b/xpg -b setup?
i was trying to figure out how long it would last, and if i need more than one of those battery packs, but my calculations just aren't coming out.


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## borrower (Feb 26, 2011)

quazzle said:


> guys, when soldering the connectors please make sure that you remove the cap from the plus connector. it should be shortened, see the pictures above. this is important.


Aaah, post #37... many thanks for that tip. I've squashed things together without, but it never felt exactly right.


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

Yes. B series works with 2 in series batteries, which the Geomangear designed battery pack happens to be. LED Runtime Calculator


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## tybeede (Apr 2, 2011)

Here is a part number,952-1457-ND, for the connectors at DigiKey I found that Quazzle posted on another thread. Just to be clear with respect to the cross section of the connector shown below, the idea is to remove the outside housing? Then solder the wire directly to the little clip part? Would it be best just to cut down the length of the housing and solder the wire to the lower half? In my case I might just order the wires from Quazzle's site but I'll have to PM and work out shipping time.


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## tybeede (Apr 2, 2011)

I also got good news from some online vendors about parts coming back into stock.

geomangear.com just got a new shipment of their panasonic battery packs in today. They just turned on the "add to cart" button for the 6Ah pack on their website a few hours ago. They are in stock but there seems to be high demand for these parts.

flashlightlens.com emailed me an said that the UCL 26.8mm x 1.85mm lens should be back in stock today as well.


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

What I don't understand is that Quazzle's connectors on the Lux-RC site look like an open tube. His connectors look like they would be easy to slide off when needed. 

The above part looks like the internal part is press fit at the factory, cannot be separated from the outside surface, is not meant to come off, ever.

By the way, the last shipment I received from Quazzle took only 10 days to reach me here in the U.S. Previous shipments have taken 2-3 weeks.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

:thumbsup:the plus connector should be shortened as initially it's too tall and prevents to optics to sit properly. We remove the cap leaving just about 3mm of the total length. No need to cut all females, just one which is used inside the board (the plus post)

Regarding the shipping and assembling schedule, normally we dispatch the orders once a week on saturdays so if your order is placed on friday, it will be handled and shipped the next day. The saturday's orders wait next week and in this case it takes 1 week longer.


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## tybeede (Apr 2, 2011)

Ok, here are the details for the connector mods needed for the L333.


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## mroneeyedboh (Sep 24, 2006)

I have both the geoman packs and the Lupine packs. ( both from geomangear.com )

I like them both equally. The lupine's wires are very nice alone with the connectors. But more expensive. And I do believe that they have their own proprietary PCB with some nice features in it. I cant remember where Ive read it at, but its out there somewhere haha


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Very clean build. I'm jealous.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

chelboed said:


> Very clean build. I'm jealous.


Hey, long time no see, Chelboed!


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Yeah man...been moving to a new city. No more lathe. Still got the Hobo Mill setup. Got one more housing that's nearly finished. I need to order another board from Quaz though.

Alot's changed since the XML though.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

chelboed said:


> Yeah man...been moving to a new city. No more lathe. Still got the Hobo Mill setup. Got one more housing that's nearly finished. I need to order another board from Quaz though.
> 
> Alot's changed since the XML though.


I'm hoping to rebuild the micro-light using the housing I got from you once the L334 comes out with XP-E R4 or R5s. The old L332 with XP-E still out-threw all my XM-L lights until it got damaged in a race.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

tybeede said:


> That means shipping from Russia will be kinda spendy just for some wires and builds in some schedule risk due to the distance...


It's about $10 flat rate to any global destination with registered air mail.
Russian post is a way cheaper than USPS where we normaly pay about $30 for similar service.


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## Fury25 (Oct 22, 2008)

Hi Quazzle,

Sorry for the stupid questions, but.....

*[1]* If i were to use the gili 6 housing, what would be your best light engine for the maximum amount of light?

*[2]* What is the recommended battery for that light engine?

*[3]* What would be the best optics for maximum throw?

*[4]* How do your light engines detect low battery for various battery types? - Lipo (2.7/2.8v) has particular requirements over LiIon/Nicad/NimH


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## allport (Mar 13, 2009)

Thought you might be interested in this.

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/my-new-triple-xpg-748794.html


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## matthewm (Mar 29, 2009)

Fury25 said:


> Hi Quazzle,
> 
> Sorry for the stupid questions, but.....
> 
> ...


The 1.1A XP-G modules give the best compromise on performance

A 7.4v battery is recommended

The best optics for throw is the 10507

Low voltage - I will let quazzle answer


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

L333 has a simple low voltage cutoff at 2.5-2.8V. It's ok for single LiIon cell but doesn't wirk with 2S batteries so please consider protected cells

L334 has automatic LiIon protection (1 and 2 cells)


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## cobraklein (Mar 14, 2011)

*light*

i finally built my light. it is amazing! low and high beams both, but I can only use high beam for a very short time. sometimes even less than a minute before it dims itself. I can only assume its overheating. anything you could think of that could be causing this?
:madman:
thank you!


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

cobraklein said:


> I can only use high beam for a very short time. sometimes even less than a minute before it dims itself. I can only assume its overheating. anything you could think of that could be causing this?


Thermal protection most likely kicking in. What does your housing look like and how much surface area does it have? How good is the thermal transfer from the board to the housing?


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## wiggy1 (Jul 8, 2011)

cobraklein said:


> i finally built my light. it is amazing! low and high beams both, but I can only use high beam for a very short time. sometimes even less than a minute before it dims itself...


Your light is so bright it scares itself  Congrats on the project.


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## cobraklein (Mar 14, 2011)

i am using this same housing that is described in this setup. its my first light, maybe connections between the wires/resistor could be bad? the light works, just overheats quickly i think. ?>>???


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

Are you using Lux-rc light engines? If so, series A, B or C? 

Possible problems:

Connectors, loose wires (already mentioned)

Insufficient thermal grease between the housing and light engine or insufficient contact area. This happened to me. Took it apart and noticed that only about 1/3 of both surfaces were covered in thermal grease. 

Batteries not able to handle amperage draw of light. Some less expensive batteries (cheap chinese) can't handle much current before they experience a big voltage sag. What kind of battery pack are you using?


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## cobraklein (Mar 14, 2011)

I believe I have the B Series. This is my first build. I think your answer gave me a clue just seeing the words insufficient thermal grease. I did not use any thermal grease...never heard of this :-/ I was also wondering if the resistor should be covered in some way or just sitting in there.


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

Vancbiker gets the credit for bringing this up first. 

Don't use your light any more. Don't even turn it on until you have applied some thermal grease.

I'm no expert in applying the grease so that it thoroughly covers both surfaces. 

Can any of the more expert builders out there help out with suggestions for thermal grease brands / types and proper application?


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## zemike (Sep 3, 2007)

Currently the best is Shin-Etsu X23-7783D but it is expensive.
For this module almost any thermal grease would work.

There's no need to apply on both surfaces - just put a little dab on the back of the module and spread it thinly with a plastic card.


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## cobraklein (Mar 14, 2011)

This might be a weird question...so what is the thermal paste for. Is that for the other side...and the thermal grease on the led side of the chip. Or both grease and paste on the same side. 

Thanks in advance


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

Grease and Paste are two different names for the same thing. 
_
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia_


> Thermal grease (also called thermal gel, thermal compound, thermal paste, heat paste, heat sink paste, heat transfer compound, heat transfer paste (HTP) or heat sink compound) is a viscous fluid substance,... it is often used to aid a component's thermal dissipation via a heat sink.


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## cobraklein (Mar 14, 2011)

Ok awesome, I'll open it up. maybe I just need to apply some more. And I'll re-check my connections.


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

The paste/grease goes on the heatsink base (place in your housing where you are mounting the LED engine) and/or the bottom of your LED light engine. The bottom is blank, no LEDs, no components.

It was easiest for me to put the optic in place and then gently apply pressure to the optic to push the light engine down into the paste.

If this doesn't work, and the light still turns off the minute you hit the high beams, then your battery might not be able to support the power drain of the LEDs.


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## cobraklein (Mar 14, 2011)

When constructing the light I had used artic silver. I just opened up the light to find some all over my wires. I remember I had used some around the area where the button is inserted. I thought this stuff would dry up but it is still very sticky and messy. Seems I have made a mess out of this project.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

cobraklein, which Arctic Silver did you use? If it was Arctic Silver 5 (which I prefer) then it doesn't dry or set. If you used Artic Alumina adhesive where you would mix two parts together then that will set as it's a glue.


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## cobraklein (Mar 14, 2011)

Artic silver 5, that explains that part then. I was freaking out bc it wasn't dry after so long


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

there's no reason of using glue with GILI. You can add some minimal amount of good thermeal grease (I prefer excellent product from Arctic - MX4). But you can even leave it clean. 

The most likely the heating problems caused by very thick glue. Just try to extract the modules, remove all glue from both surfaces and it should be fine. 

DO NOT USE GLUE/EPOXY


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## xdpackin (Feb 5, 2007)

I'm having the same issue with a copy of this light I just built. I applied a thin layer of some old Zalman ZM-STG1 thermal grease I had left over from a computer build. When I turn on the high beam it will drop down to the lower power setting after a 5-15 second period. I rewired it once and I've got everything neatly done with wire shrinks and etc. I'm also using the geomangear.com panasonic battery packs which should be about as good as it gets.

Perhaps I need to get a fresh bottle of thermal grease and have another go at it?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

which battery/cells you use? 
are you sure it's not the battery protection?

2UP 333 consume alot, about 30 watts on full, so make sure that your battery pack can supply 6 Amp.


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

Geomangear Battery Packs:

6.0 Ah - Panasonic NCR 18650A cells. 

4.5 Ah - Panasonic CGR18650CG cells.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

ahh, I see now. Originally this is your's correct?
We already discussed this issue in PM and it will be resolved.


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

Not mine. Just replying to show that the packs xdpackin is using are Panasonic cells.


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

cobraklein said:


> i finally built my light. it is amazing! low and high beams both, but I can only use high beam for a very short time. sometimes even less than a minute before it dims itself. I can only assume its overheating. anything you could think of that could be causing this?
> :madman:
> thank you!





xdpackin said:


> I'm having the same issue with a copy of this light I just built. I applied a thin layer of some old Zalman ZM-STG1 thermal grease I had left over from a computer build. When I turn on the high beam it will drop down to the lower power setting after a 5-15 second period. I rewired it once and I've got everything neatly done with wire shrinks and etc. I'm also using the geomangear.com panasonic battery packs which should be about as good as it gets.
> 
> Perhaps I need to get a fresh bottle of thermal grease and have another go at it?


Cobraklein and Xdpackin, did you ever figure out what was causing your light to drop from high to low in less than a minute?


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## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

what is the external surface area of the housing ?
would guess, to run 20W max or less, on that housing, not over 30W !?

Is there a way to change a resistor, to reduce the 1.5A to 1A max in high ?

new housing:
looking at doing a new housing for the DIY folks.
with 2 x 3up L334 and 1x3up 
would think the 1x3up on helmet is enough, due battery weight.
Email/PM if interested.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

the main question which should be asked - which thermal interface you use? Most heating issues are caused by not adequate thermal interfacing (stickers, thick epoxy glue etc).

The best one which is easy to find in small quantities is Arctic MX-4 (but it's a paste, not a glue)


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

rschultz101 said:


> Is there a way to change a resistor, to reduce the 1.5A to 1A max in high ?


sorry no, 1A (and less versions) use a different inductor. Why don't just to switch to a lower mode?


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## cobraklein (Mar 14, 2011)

sorry for the late reply...no have not had time to sit down and put it back together. 3 months later and still not using it :-/


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