# Which one: 18 x XM-L T6 or 1 x XHP70.2



## NiToNi (Aug 12, 2013)

I am looking for a cheap and cheerful light for my handlebar. Lots of light, ideally with an eye to power consumption and colour temperature.

I was considering either of these two lights. First, one with a single XHP70.2, god knows whether genuine:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

Second, this monster with 18 XM-L T6:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...expid=a14db1e1-5a0b-4b16-9e43-adc815373b3c-43

Price is more or less the same for both (light only, got batteries already). Which one should I pick and why?

EDIT: For XHP70.2, this one seems higher quality but is dobule the price:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

I have the BL70. It's the best one of the bunch. You'll have to get a real battery though from Kaidomain. Get the Panasonic 4 or 6 cell. Don't get the cheap battery. Stay away from the multi LED cheapo light. It's dumbed down to handle the heat. The BL70 is the brightest of the group but don't expect 3000 lumens. It's a good 1800 lumens and is pretty bright, a good deal for the $$. You might wanna get everything from Kaidomain since they have the best battery pack options.

MB


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> I have the BL70. It's the best one of the bunch. You'll have to get a real battery though from Kaidomain. Get the Panasonic 4 or 6 cell. Don't get the cheap battery. Stay away from the multi LED cheapo light. It's dumbed down to handle the heat. The BL70 is the brightest of the group but don't expect 3000 lumens. It's a good 1800 lumens and is pretty bright, a good deal for the $$. You might wanna get everything from Kaidomain since they have the best battery pack options.
> 
> MB


Even though I don't own one of these I was pretty much going to say the same thing. The BL70 listed on the Ali website doesn't look bad and it has three modes and a hidden strobe. Funny that you said , "It's a good 1800 lumen" because even though I don't own one I would of thought maybe 2000 at best. That said, 1800 or 2000 is a nice amount of light.

*mb323...* _What's the beam pattern like on one of these?_ Better on the bars or helmet? I'm thinking the reflector looks like it's designed to disperse the light for width so you don't see the die cross hairs. OP said he already had a battery so he just want's the lamp head. Good idea though to use a battery pack that is > 6000mAh.


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## NiToNi (Aug 12, 2013)

Thanks guys. OK I get it, the BL70 is tested & proven and the superior light. However, I tend to break, lose or have my stuff stolen (not to mention I'm a cheapskate) so I'm still tempted to go with one of the two other cheaper lights since they're half the price, especially when Ali's sale starts tomorrow.

If so, with a gun to your head, which one would you recommend?

I realise the multi-LED one is dumbed down with a way too weak driver but does quantity still count for something, especially if the cheaper XHP70.2 light uses a fake Cree.

I'm coming from an UltraFire U-L2 with 7 x LEDs (XM-L T6?) that's been OK but now decided to pack in. I've got battery packs from other stuff, including my Xeccon Geinea I (white + red) that I use on my helmet.

What I'm worried about with the single LED is that I've read and seen examples of so many ones that, due to the orange peel reflector, give these strange rings in the beam pattern of clearly different intensity and, worse, colours. That I'd find highly annoying. For my bike, I want it to flood a bit so it lights up to the sides (distance not as important with my bike as in a car going 70 mph) however I want to be able to tilt it down slightly when on the road without blinding oncoming traffic (and get pulled over by the police).

Tomorrow's the sale - which buy button do I press...?! 

I'm considering getting this one for my wife's electric bike (14S/50.4V) as well since it seems to have a built-in buck converter (although no on/off button or high/low/strobe modes):

[URL]https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32806361758.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.67ce3c003Moedt&mp=1

EDIT: I have had an Imalent R90C (7 x XHP35; rated @ 20,000 lumens) as my main flashlight for a couple of years and it's brilliant, but way too heavy to go my handlebar, which is a shame, otherwise I'd be using that for a superior solution.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

I would still go w/ Kaidomain battery pack and the BL70. For about 80 bucks you'll get a real Panansonic pack and the light head. And if you think you need mega run time get the 10.2Amp hr battery. Link below.

http://kaidomain.com/bike-lights-an...ree-XHP70_2-3000-Lumens-4-Mode-LED-Bike-Light

http://kaidomain.com/S024442-KBP-18...18650-Li-ion-Battery-Pack?search=battery pack

http://kaidomain.com/S024443-KBP-18...18650-Li-ion-Battery-Pack?search=battery pack


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

All above but KD light has fake counterfeight cheapo Chinese leds with very cool or blueish white light. I would stay away from all of them. Those xx leds lights are useless and runt on very low power. It seems good for newbie, but on longer term it's waste of money.
PS. See how geniue Cree XHP70.2 looks like: LED test / review - Cree XLamp XHP70.2 P2 40E (4000 K) - The second generation of extreme overcurrent and light flux capability? | BudgetLightForum.com


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## NiToNi (Aug 12, 2013)

OK I've taken your advice, bit the bullet and ordered the more expensive BL70s 4000K from AE. I really hope it's a good, floody handlebar light that isn't spotty and having the dreadful yellow rings in its beam pattern due to the orange-peeled reflector that I cannot stand (In this respect, my seven-year old 7 x XM-L was great).

Seems the ledoman-linked XHP70.2 review mentions this too: "The yellow-colored corona is visible and annoying. The spot is definitely cooler than the stated 4000 K CCT - I estimate the color temperature is higher than 4500 K."

EDIT: Now if @goatman or anyone else could tell me where I could get a clamp mount for it, like the one below, that would be great.


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

*Extreme Lights clamp*



NiToNi said:


> EDIT: Now if @goatman or anyone else could tell me where I could get a clamp mount for it, like the one below, that would be great.
> 
> Here you go NiToNi:
> 
> ...


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

goatman said:


> NiToNi said:
> 
> 
> > EDIT: Now if @goatman or anyone else could tell me where I could get a clamp mount for it, like the one below, that would be great.
> ...


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## NiToNi (Aug 12, 2013)

Brilliant both - thanks! I will probably order from C&B Seen since I'm in the UK.

Re the XHP70.2 light, I went with the BL70s over the cheaper (allegedly) XHP70.2 light due to concerns over the chip being genuine or not. Interestingly, I've found another seller, the official Walkefire store, that sells exactly that light for a lot more money and they (unusually for Chinese sellers) make a point of its quality, so perhaps it's a real Cree after all:

"- About 2000 lumens "high" mode brightness: For some proudcts, the labelled brightness may much more than its real brightness, while this LED could really reach more than 2000 lumens without obviously decreasing its theoretical lifespan.

- About 100,000 hours LED life: Many non-famouns so-called T6 LED or other LED have a lifespan of about 10 thousand hous, while this P70 LED could light 10 times as long as that."

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33034234360.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000013.19.3e827ed0Nvx6pb&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.169870.0&scm_id=1007.13339.169870.0&scm-url=1007.13339.169870.0&pvid=d0df2b3a-bed4-43e1-9179-9c84078c073e&_t=gps-idcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller,scm-url:1007.13339.169870.0,pvid:d0df2b3a-bed4-43e1-9179-9c84078c073e,tpp_buckets:668%230%23131923%2379_668%23808%235965%23394_668%23888%233325%2311_668%232846%238107%2357_668%232717%237564%23656_668%231000022185%231000066055%230_668%233468%2315612%23372


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Still same fake or lets say counterfeight led. At least it's not advertised as Cree or XHP. And it can really top at 2000 lm when properly cooled and runt at highest power while geniue Cree can make 4292 lm at highest bin.


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## NiToNi (Aug 12, 2013)

Thanks ledoman. I had asked the seller ("AEFJ Official Store") if they could guarantee the light is using a genuine Cree and they replied: "It's genuine. LED is *genuine* Cree XHP70.2 chip", but then again they would say that, wouldn't they, since the are no repurcussions other than me opening a dispute and having to return the light to China at my own expense.... 

What the hell, I may just buy one of these cheaper (18 x XML or "XHP70.2") for fifteen quid just to compare and have as a backup light or put it on one of kids' bike. Question is which one...?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Those lights tends to be quite big and somewhat heavy. You would get same or better light with smaller and more efficient leds/lights. Of course for better light you need to pay more. 
it is true $15 is not much and for that amount I can only get 5pcs of geniue bare XM-L2 leds. So not much to loose except it needs space on airplane and might end in the drawer. For the same amount you might try
http://kaidomain.com/bike-lights-an...-Groups-of-2-to-3-Mode-2200-Lumens-Bike-Light
or
http://kaidomain.com/bike-lights-an...ree-XM-L2-U2-4-10-Mode-2200-Lumens-Bike-Light

Not waterproff, though, but good enough and you can choose led tint.


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

ledoman said:


> Those lights tends to be quite big and somewhat heavy. You would get same or better light with smaller and more efficient leds/lights. Of course for better light you need to pay more.
> it is true $15 is not much and for that amount I can only get 5pcs of geniue bare XM-L2 leds. So not much to loose except it needs space on airplane and might end in the drawer. For the same amount you might try
> http://kaidomain.com/bike-lights-an...-Groups-of-2-to-3-Mode-2200-Lumens-Bike-Light
> or
> ...


I agree with Ledoman, I have the BL2S as my backup helmet light (still using a Nitefighter BT21S)
I fitted some new optics but honestly don't think you need to mess with the stock ones!
The waterproofing issue I solved with a spare silicone switch cover and also modded the base so I can use a GoPro style mount. The stock cable length was just too long for my liking, shortened that too.
The bonus is that the BL2S is super light and the 4000K neutral white tint works for my eyes.


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## NiToNi (Aug 12, 2013)

Cheers, you're right, those look better for the money.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Cat, forgot to mention you don't want the BL70 on the lid. It's just too big and heavy and there are many other better options for a helmet light. The beam is spread reasonably I'd say w/ decent throw. I guess that doesn't tell you much but I'm not much at reviewing lights.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> Cat, forgot to mention you don't want the BL70 on the lid. It's just too big and heavy and there are many other better options for a helmet light. The beam is spread reasonably I'd say w/ decent throw. I guess that doesn't tell you much but I'm not much at reviewing lights.


Well, tells me it' not for the helmet which I pretty much expected. As long as there's no major artifacts in the beam and has decent spill I would tend to think it might make for a nice bright bar light. Makes me wonder though if there's a flood lens the right size that might give it a wider beam pattern without any distortion to the beam pattern.


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## NiToNi (Aug 12, 2013)

*BL70s*

Got the light today - quick delivery.

Exactly the same form factor as my 7-year old 7 x XM-L light and only 17g lighter.











































Tested it with an almost fully charged Xeccon 2S2P. In low, the current was too low to register on my tester without supplying external voltage. I can redo it later if anyone cares:









In Mid setting, the light drew 0.7A(5.4W after voltage drop) from the pack:









In High, the light pulled 2.2A (16.5W w/sag):
















Spontaneously, the light is not as bright as my old multi-led light but my memory may fail me since it's been broken for a while. However, it does not dazzle me head on from a distance like the other one did.

However, the colour temperature (4000K version) is clearly superior. The other light was ultraviolet in comparison, so this is a big plus. Makes me curious wha the 3000K would have looked like (At home, I think 3000K is too blue for anything else than the kitchen and prefer 2700K, old halogen look).

I have a Minolta T-10A illuminance meter somewhere and may make an attempt at measuring the output of the light, in which case I will post it. Never got around to ordering that 18 x XML during the Ali sale, nor the BL2S, but would be interesting to compare.

EDIT: Disregard this last image below, don't know how to remove it once uploaded:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Glad you like the tint of the 4000K but since you were supplying photos it would of been real nice to see either an inside wall beam shot or an outdoor beam shot ( or both ).


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

Cat-man-do said:


> Glad you like the tint of the 4000K but since you were supplying photos it would of been real nice to see either an inside wall beam shot or an outdoor beam shot ( or both ).


Hello Mr. Cat,

I have exact same head light like OP, 4000K version of BL70s.










Pardon me, not my best shot, but this one is how 4000K in max setting beam shot look alike. Old photo though, (circa 2018). Photographed with DIY GoPro adapter mount.

In person, there's not so much concentrated hotspot, like on the photo above. Is there, but not so much eyesore. The purple halo on outer edge caused by non reflective coating on BL70s lens.

High setting is too powerful for my taste, mid setting is the best all around, but it emitting "ngiiiing" sound on medium mode. The low mode isn't usable since it was too dim. But overall, the temps are very natural, sunlight like properties, especially in the bush where foliages and trees looks much look natural green.

Long story short, I have lost my strapped battery pack during big bumps, the light went dark abruptly. I think that's my headlight failure, but isn't. When I checking hanging cable, I realized my battery pack is no longer on my frame. Thankfully I am always carrying spare light (self contained). Currently I haven't rebuild a new battery pack so I can't tested this light anymore.


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## whokilledJR (Sep 24, 2012)

Just my 2 cents on the potential of XHP70.2 emitters as bikelights, I honestly feel a lot of manufacturers are missing the point, these emitters have enormous potential for night riding and they don't need large reflectors or overly excessive heatsinking.

I recently modded an old gemini Titan P7 (magic shine 808e clone):









My first reaction was "holy c$$$" these things are bright, so much so that the low mode of this light now completely eclipses the previous high mode (xml first gen emitter) by a large margin.

Diameter of this reflector is 39mm, however it's by no means a thrower. It was designed for a wide spread, hence it's very shallow, in fact with the old xml emitter, the standard 19mm optics were able to out throw it.

What I didn't expect was the new XHP70.2 to be able to throw in this shallow reflector, and it actually does throw very well. It punches out a very large hotspot perfect for nightriding, along with a wide bright spill that lights everything up, hence it has good throw and flood capabilities.

This experience leads me to the following conclusions:
smaller optics would be fine with this emitter
XHP70.2's are around twice as efficient as xml's and one of the most efficient leads available
Thermal capabilities are also efficient, given this moderate sized light can manage more than double the light in high mode without getting overly hot

Typical optics for the xml sized footprint come in at 18.5mm optics, xhp70.2 come in at 26.5mm which I expect to be the night riding sweet spot.

I'm planning on testing this out and I have a great looking host on the way:









Just waiting for it to arrive and hoping the dimensions can be modded to use xhp70.2 optics, in particular this elliptical optic looks great as a cycling beam:


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

whokilledJR said:


> Just my 2 cents on the potential of XHP70.2 emitters as bikelights, I honestly feel a lot of manufacturers are missing the point, these emitters have enormous potential for night riding and they don't need large reflectors or overly excessive heatsinking.


It could be the lack a compatible optics? I don't have any 70.2 emitters but do have some flashlights with 50.2's and it appears along with the different die size the domes are also taller so doubtful they'd adapt very well to the most common XM-L optics. I know Gloworm initially used 50.2's in their XSV but quickly changed to smaller die 35.2's because of beam pattern issues. I agree adaptation of the more efficient 50.2/70.2 emitters could be big improvement (especially for self-contained) in regards to weight as they would require smaller batteries (though I wonder about the direction the manufacturers are going with separate batteries that have fuel gauges and function as powerbanks but weigh considerably more). I'm very curious how the 70.2's work with an elliptical beam so looking forward hearing how you experiment works out! 
Mole


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## whokilledJR (Sep 24, 2012)

I'm sure a lack of OPTICS played a huge part in their decision making. The other thing I could think of is designing a lamp for xhp70.2 would have completely different dimensions which would require a new line of product that would compete with existing products. Such may be the case for glowworm hence the emitter was ruled out early in their business model, although I can only speculate. My view is a common reason small firms get left behind is a lack of innovation, willingness or ability to change and adapt. Outbound lighting is a good example of recent innovation (and good marketing).

I've also had a chance to experiment with the wide angle lens for the old magicshine 808e and it doesn't work as well with the 70.2, it seems to throws out more artifacts and unusable spill, although in a more focused reflector it provides a sharper more efficient beam. I believe this is also the case for the recent Astrolux BL02 which uses small throwy XPG's resulting in a fairly sharp elliptical beam with less unusable spill. At the very least it will be an interesting experiment to see how the 70.2 works with specifically made optics.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

whokilledJR said:


> I've also had a chance to experiment with the wide angle lens for the old magicshine 808e and it doesn't work as well with the 70.2, it seems to throws out more artifacts and unusable spill, although in a more focused reflector it provides a sharper more efficient beam. I believe this is also the case for the recent Astrolux BL02 which uses small throwy XPG's resulting in a fairly sharp elliptical beam with less unusable spill. At the very least it will be an interesting experiment to see how the 70.2 works with specifically made optics.


So the 808 lens/70.2 emitter combo results weren't perfect but do you think it was an overall improvement (as a beam widening option)? My perception of beam shots I've seen of 70.2 lights is they have an overabundance of foreground light which for me anyway lowers the lights output limit before reflective glare becomes problematic (for bar use). In the past I've found the use of elliptical lenses an effective way to increase usable intensity so again, looking forward to reading about the results of your experiment. Thanks for sharing!
Mole


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## whokilledJR (Sep 24, 2012)

With the 808e and wide-angle lens, glare is an issue in my particular host, however I should add the host I'm using wasn't made for an xml, it was made for the old P7 led that preceded xml with a larger die size.

The lens does perform better in a more focused beam profile. To be more specific I'm referring to the convoy M3 flashlight with xhp70.2 which has a much deeper reflector, less spill and more defined hotspot. Vertical spill is reduced, but not as reduced as the wide angle optics of glowworm and glare would still be an issue.

I'd suggest the optic needs to be developed specifically for the emitter and it may be the case that narrower emitters just perform better in elliptical optics. I'll update the forum once I have the xhp70.2 optics.


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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

After losing my battery pack during a ride, finally having a chance of getting my KD BL70s back for it's duty as helmet thrower again. This light literally vacant, unused for about 2 years.

By the way, what is the difference between DIY battery box like this vs prebuilt one ? I would try battery from FMA/Hunk Lee since they are well received and looks good quality, but the airplane shipping restriction hampered me in getting of those.

So this is my last resort, sorry I didn't know much about battery pack.










The cells which I am source locally, I am carefully choose high-drain one for XHP 70.2


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

whokilledJR said:


> Just my 2 cents on the potential of XHP70.2 emitters as bikelights, I honestly feel a lot of manufacturers are missing the point, these emitters have enormous potential for night riding and they don't need large reflectors or overly excessive heatsinking.
> 
> I recently modded an old gemini Titan P7 (magic shine 808e clone):
> View attachment 1939455
> ...


JR,
Can you give a link to the driver you are using? 6v or 12v ? and are you able retain the rear clicky switch?

I love the KD70 but it's just too heavy on my helmet. I have a p7 808 and clone 808 lying around that I would like to mod (cheaply) in this fashion.

Also do you have any experience with xhp50s and xhp35s? I have a dual xml wingaling lying around too. TIA


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## whokilledJR (Sep 24, 2012)

Ratt said:


> JR,
> Can you give a link to the driver you are using? 6v or 12v ? and are you able retain the rear clicky switch?
> 
> I love the KD70 but it's just too heavy on my helmet. I have a p7 808 and clone 808 lying around that I would like to mod (cheaply) in this fashion.
> ...


Hi Ratt,

The driver is the stock driver, built for a standard 2s2p battery pack, so it would be a buck driver. Led is neutral white 4000k 6v. I'm not an expert on drivers however nor do I have measuring equipment, so can only speculate, and have no idea where to get the original driver from, but I'd suggest it would be very similar to the original magic shines.

The light output I don't believe just to be the better efficiency of the xhp70.2, what I think is happening is it's driving the same amps but at the higher voltage of 6v (compared to the original 3v xml). So you'd be doubling output based on efficiency and doubling the output again due to the higher voltage. Purely speculation, but output seems a hell of a lot higher than I had expected.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey JR

I have an old 808 clone as well w/ a smooth reflector that makes a nice spot. Totally unusable as a single light but it would make a great light w/ another flood beam. I seems this was more than a drop in. Do you have a vid of the process.

Thx

MB


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