# Cree XT-E



## phburns (Sep 30, 2008)

Cree has a new LED:
https://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXT-E.pdf

Here's a comparison model, looks like the die is slightly smaller than the XP-E.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I'm liking the look of this! XPG output in a small die! Cool stuff for those of us that like spotty beams.


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

Looks like XP-C size. Should work good with smaller optics


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

The white ones look like the xp-e HEW that quazzle put on his boards


----------



## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

Cree XB-D's appear to be the white ones -

http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXB-D.pdf

I ordered some samples from Cree a few days ago. Even smaller!

***


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

scar said:


> Cree XB-D's appear to be the white ones -
> 
> http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXB-D.pdf
> 
> ...


XB-D and XT-E are two different packages.

XT package is the same size as the XP package.


----------



## OldMTBfreak (Apr 8, 2006)

Oh yes, 420L at 1500mA. I just can't wait to see what a Cute4 looks like with 4 of these.


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

OldMTBfreak said:


> Oh yes, 420L at 1500mA. I just can't wait to see what a Cute4 looks like with 4 of these.


How about a 7up with the khatod or polymer lense?


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

cutter has the XTE whites
but know mention of R4 or R5 etc
Cutter Electronics


----------



## OldMTBfreak (Apr 8, 2006)

I think a 7-up will be dynomite! Housing will have to be large enough to dissipate 35 watts though. I have just the housing in mind. I'm sitting here on "pins & needles".


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

R4/R5 is pretty high for high CRI LED. And binning is for 85°C not 25°C.


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Toaster79 said:


> R4/R5 is pretty high for high CRI LED. And binning is for 85°C not 25°C.


So does that mean i can worry less about the heat produced


----------



## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

from a non-technical perspective, this all seems a bit strange - the junction temperature is higher than XP-G and twice that of XM-L, but the drop off in efficiency with temperature is waaaay better than XP-G. At 85C, the XP-G is down to ~85% efficiency, whereas the XT-E is at 100%. Vf is quite considerably lower too - [email protected] vs. [email protected] for the XP-G. XM-L kills 'em both at that though.

So, same no. of lumens at a given current (give or take) as the XP-G, but considerably more heat tolerant and less power consumption (but more than the XM-L) due to the lower Vf. I guess that will result in higher effective lumens vs. XP-G in bike lights, plus somewhat longer runtime.


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

XM-L binnig and XP-G binnig is 100% at 25°C junction temperature whereas XT-E binnig 100% at 85°C junction temperature. Meaning that XT-E at 25°C JT produces almost 20% more luminous flux. So 148L/W @ 85°C is like 170L/W @25°C (comparing to XM-Ls 160)


----------



## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

thermal resistance
XT-E -> 5W/C
XP-G -> 4W/C
XM-L -> 2.5W/C

would think, sweet spot, be below 750ma, max 1A for XT-E ,
what's interesting, is the higher CRI, 
thought, most lumen freaks, don't care about that.
so footprint should be same as XP-G ?
cheers, Rob


----------



## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

interesting - so it looks like they're getting more lumens out by reducing the losses due to temperature. These would be pretty sweet for 4+UPs and mini thrower helmet lights. Once the optics shake themselves out (whenever that might be), these would be an interesting option for my helmet light (max 1.5A). Viewing angle looks like it can be as narrow as the XP-E (115deg) vs. the XM-L and XP-G at 125deg, although they specify a range - is that because they include the HEW models too? Either way, if the 115deg is valid for the standard cool white version, then that plus the tiny die size should make this an awesome thrower!

rob - yep, same package size as XP-G. One of the things that they tout as a benefit, presumably for industrial applications.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

mattthemuppet said:


> from a non-technical perspective, this all seems a bit strange - the junction temperature is higher than XP-G and twice that of XM-L, but the drop off in efficiency with temperature is waaaay better than XP-G. At 85C, the XP-G is down to ~85% efficiency, whereas the XT-E is at 100%. Vf is quite considerably lower too - [email protected] vs. [email protected] for the XP-G. XM-L kills 'em both at that though.
> 
> So, same no. of lumens at a given current (give or take) as the XP-G, but considerably more heat tolerant and less power consumption (but more than the XM-L) due to the lower Vf. I guess that will result in higher effective lumens vs. XP-G in bike lights, plus somewhat longer runtime.


Related to the silicon carbide technology mentioned in the datasheet? I only know silicon carbide as an abrasive.


----------



## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

hmm, well according to wikipedia, SiC was first used to make an LED in 1907, although Gallium Nitride replaced it as it was brighter (something due to indirect vs. direct bandgaps, whatever they are). Commonly used as a substrate and/ or insulator for high power LEDs. No idea how they got from that to the XT-E though.

More importantly, it's used to make carbon ceramic brake discs - how cool is that? Perhaps the latest sports cars will soon come with SiC lights AND brakes


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

typically I still have unused "latest and greatest LED's" sitting in my garage waiting for builds and along comes the next brightest idea 

Shouldn't complain really, should just get of my ar$e and do stuff. This is at least looking like it will start bringing back down the size of the spotty helmet light most of us like which seems to have grown over the last few years to accommodate the bigger die LEDs.


----------



## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Any thoughts on how this might work with a Regina reflector?


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

bshallard said:


> Any thoughts on how this might work with a Regina reflector?


My guess is it will have great throw at some loss of spill when compared to an XPG.

Of great interest to me is how it might tighten up the Carclo 10417 10mm optic. I love the small format of that optic, but it is too floody with an XPG for my taste.

After the debacle that was the early MCE optics, I have waited for the dust to settle on what optics or reflectors work with new emitters. This may change that.


----------



## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

^ Agreed. The smaller die than an XP-E should drop the FWHM for the 10417 to about 20 degrees verses about 36 with an XP-G. Should be a near pinpoint die projection with an aspheric provided it is large enough to collect the wide output. 

BrianMc


----------



## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

Vancbiker said:


> After the debacle that was the early MCE optics, I have waited for the dust to settle on what optics or reflectors work with new emitters. This may change that.


what cracks me up is that optics for the XM-L are only just getting shaken out and something new turns up!


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

I wouldn't expect die projection with aspherics. Entired dome is covered with phosphor so it will look pretty much like XP-E HEW only with smaller die. Anybody tried combination of that led and an aspheric?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

My experience with the aspherics is you don't want an exact die projection more defocused 
works best and for biking the larger die of the xml makes a good beam 

I had some racer types trial the spidereyes at a couple of 24 hour races and the feed back was fantastic but can you take the sharp edges of the beam so have dropped the lenses in a bit and it works a lot better for the job with no discernible loss of range 
beam is about 6 degrees total .

I will wait and see what transpires for this led 
Good price though


----------



## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

currently not available (XT-E),....
for right now, if you need to get going.
the luxeon rebel ES, 
does not have bond wires, that means easier dome removal ,
cook it to 2A , if you have to,
the non ES, ~1.5A max practical.
thing is, the thermal is 9C/W , so gets hot, if you have optics touching the dome,
probably will melt , fuse.
for the future, for the real spot, 
it will be a defocused laser, in the visible range.
unfortunately, high power lasers are not easy(legal) to ship to the usa.


----------



## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

how much hot do they get?
where do you see 9ºC/W? It's 5ºC/W for the XT-E.

What is this deal about binnig the LEDs against 85ºC? Is it because they heat too much?
Anyway this LED is not a breakthrough for me...


----------



## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

On paper this looks like something I've been waiting for.

Perfect for small form factor 3 Up bar or helmet light. Should throw better than XP-E. Be more efficient than XP-G. 

One thing I didn't see mentioned is that the dome is slightly taller, 2.36 mm versus 2.0 mm for XP-E and XP-G

Rating the LED at 85C makes sense. How many of us are able to build a light that runs at a junction temp of 25C?


----------



## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

the 9C/W was for the rebel
85C is more real, since if your housing hits 65C,...
the LED is much hotter. 
there is no point of measuring lumens in a freezer, with a 25 millisecond pulse ,
to boost the numbers.

8% lumen is not ground breaking, 
but 1/2 the price is.
and availability of optics is king. 
not that much xml optics.
and for spot 200% more light .

well, it all adds up

what's not keeping up, is batteries ,
more LED's , more lumen, means more juice,
and I have not heard any 8% increase of battery juice.
oh, you can get 8% , going from a cheap glass, to a double coated AR lens,...



sergio_pt said:


> how much hot do they get?
> where do you see 9ºC/W? It's 5ºC/W for the XT-E.
> 
> What is this deal about binnig the LEDs against 85ºC? Is it because they heat too much?
> Anyway this LED is not a breakthrough for me...


 the other fine print, is about CRI ,
once everybody gets enough lumens, and the batteries still cost 2-3X more than the light,
the things will turn into, who's got the quality of light, not how bright,
CRI and yellow is your friend.
cheers, Rob


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

A small part of the price break will, I'm sure, be to do with our strong Aussie dollar at the moment making it cheaper for cutter to buy them in the first place. Sitting around $1.08 US at the moment


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Already some cute lenses for the XT-E
Led lighting - Products | Ledil


----------



## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Might be very nice on a Qazzle triple board.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Goldigger said:


> Already some cute lenses for the XT-E
> Led lighting - Products | Ledil


Part numbers are the same as the XPG versions and the dates on the datasheet drawing are 2008 and 2010. I doubt they are "Product series especially designed & optimized for XT-E HVW series of LEDs".

The beam width is narrower according to the datasheet but is a "simulated" value. Looks like Ledil has not gotten their hands on an XTE yet for testing. I still believe that this LED will be a plus to those among us that like small form factors and spotty beams. I'm hoping that Cutter announces availability soon.


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Vancbiker said:


> Part numbers are the same as the XPG versions and the dates on the datasheet drawing are 2008 and 2010. I doubt they are "Product series especially designed & optimized for XT-E HVW series of LEDs".
> 
> The beam width is narrower according to the datasheet but is a "simulated" value. Looks like Ledil has not gotten their hands on an XTE yet for testing. I still believe that this LED will be a plus to those among us that like small form factors and spotty beams. I'm hoping that Cutter announces availability soon.


Looking at the cutter site, they now have 3 different bins..normally if there out of stock it says next to each bin..


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Another optic
Gaggione LLS12NOptic 16mm (XP-G, XB-D, OSLON...) by LED-TECH.de


----------



## vroom9 (Feb 24, 2009)

This is actually a pretty big development, but maybe not in the area of bike lights. The use of Silicon carbide (SiC) instead of some mixture of Gallium, Indium, and Nitrogen. The LEDs should be a lot less expensive to make and not have as large a toxic footprint. 

The rating at 85C is also a lot better. The 25C numbers of the older leds were on the marketing lies side. Few actual implementations actually had a junction temp of 25C. 85C is a lot more realistic, and for once many of the LEDs will actually be at that temperature or less. Part of the reason is the SiC. It can take a lot of heat. SiC is a very promising material and Cree is at the leading edge of it's use. 

Time for a Cutter order I think.


----------



## vroom9 (Feb 24, 2009)

Toaster79 said:


> XM-L binnig and XP-G binnig is 100% at 25°C junction temperature whereas XT-E binnig 100% at 85°C junction temperature. Meaning that XT-E at 25°C JT produces almost 20% more luminous flux. So 148L/W @ 85°C is like 170L/W @25°C (comparing to XM-Ls 160)


The Silicon Carbide (SiC) dies in these new LEDs behave very differently than the older LED's like the XM-L, XP-G, XP-E, XR series that use a Gallium, Indium, and Nitrogen based die. Basically the SiC can take the heat. Since it's less effected by the heat, the drop in output at 25C vs. 85C will not be as much as the older LEDs. I would still expect the SiC to make more light at 25C, but it might only be 5% and not 20%.

EDIT: I finally got a chance to read the data sheet. There is a graph of output vs temperature and it looks like it's about 13% or 14% more efficient at 25C.


----------



## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Wow, I have an old prototype 6 up troutlight helmet light that is currently using some rather dated xp-e with 10mm optics. I had been thinking about upgrading to xp-g now I am glad I have weighted. This looks great. This new one is really something new with a totally new substrate it will become a game changer. Looks like I will be making another cutter order in the near future.


----------



## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

I wonder when cutter will start shipping them mounted on stars?? Seeing as how this is the smallest power class led ever I am not about to try to solder one with my crummy Chinese iron. Since these are so cheap the excitement factor is high. The low price and high cri mean i will probably be building huge bar lights to replace the fluorescent tubes in my fathers wood shop. Cree states on the website that they are designed for xm optics. Thanks for sharing guys, I am clearly excited about this.


----------



## vroom9 (Feb 24, 2009)

Found this pic of the white XT-E. The die is clearly different. Kind of shaped like little pyramids or maybe more of a little mountain range. It's sure not a flat square like the older non-SiC LEDs. I wonder if all the crystals are the same or if the shape varies some between LEDs. While XP-E or XP-G optics will work they might not be optimum given the different shape of the light emitting surface.


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I was just having a look on Quazzles site to see if the 334 board is available..I read through the comments and Quazzle's response to using the XTE was..
_"It's possible to install XT-E's but these LEDs are designed for fixture diffused lighting and can be used only with very wide frosted optics. We have XP-E HEW rated at 139lm/w in stock, they're very similar to XT-E (the same technology/light dissipation pattern). Also we can install newest Nichia and Samsung LEDs which in some cases show even better perfomance than CREE's"_

Sounds like there not recommended for throw..


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

OK, I'm not doubting Quazzles experience with these LED's at all but that statement seems to contradict itself. They are only designed for very wide frosted optics but what he has (XPE) is the same light dissipation pattern, surely then they would get similar results from similar optics?

Maybe I'm just being too simplistic in my understanding of it.


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

emu26 said:


> OK, I'm not doubting Quazzles experience with these LED's at all but that statement seems to contradict itself. They are only designed for very wide frosted optics but what he has (XPE) is the same light dissipation pattern, surely then they would get similar results from similar optics?
> 
> Maybe I'm just being too simplistic in my understanding of it.


Yeah I did think that to..maybe it was just a way of saying I've no plans to do it


----------



## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

I just had a browse on the Ledil site looking for XT-E compatible optics. I noticed that they offer the Leila in LXP2-D but the LXP2-RS seemed to be missing. If you just bring up the product list for Cree and Leila it produces something interesting:

LXP2-RS - XP-E - 7 degrees
LXP2-RS - XP-G - 10 degrees

LXP2-D - XT-E - 13 degrees
LXP2-D - XP-E - 14 degrees

That to me implies that the XT-E is even tighter than the XP-E with equivalent optics. Maybe Ledil have found that the XT-E with LXP2-RS is like a laser beam!


----------



## ecthelion (May 6, 2007)

I'm also inclined to think the XTE should be a good thrower. 

The Cree PDF on each LED has a chart of intensity vs. angle for each LED, normalized for that LED. Since I had some time on my hands, I've overlaid them to get some idea of where each is putting the most light. Seems like XTE is the narrowest spread and XML the broadest.

Note that the graph is intensity normalized for each individual LED -- it's not saying they all have the same absolute intentity . . . maybe I'll be the guinea pig and order an L334 with the XTE for the LEDgends triple housing I've been waiting to build up for a helmet light


----------



## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I made up a light with the XPE-HEW Quazzle triple, and it wasn't a great thrower. See the Beamshot thread- the classic XPE throws far better, even with less overall lumens.
http://forums.mtbr.com/8169677-post60.html


----------



## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

thanks for the chart !

couple of thoughts:
the chart does not account for die or dome size.
the xml is larger , as such spread the light more.
on some of the new lens spec, what where previous used on xp-g,
the xt-e had in the spec lost 1 deg.
I account that for the larger dome size than the xpg.
on the other end I'd expect it , to be a little bit more efficient , than the xpg,
and close the gap to the xml.
in combination, that the xt-e can hold the lumens better at higher temperature,
should be as good as the xml , when you take 2x plus, and drive it less than max .
the other option, to have tighter bin (compared to XML), and min CRI option.
just a couple of my thoughts, and I could be wrong.
cheers, Rob



ecthelion said:


> I'm also inclined to think the XTE should be a good thrower.
> 
> The Cree PDF on each LED has a chart of intensity vs. angle for each LED, normalized for that LED. Since I had some time on my hands, I've overlaid them to get some idea of where each is putting the most light. Seems like XTE is the narrowest spread and XML the broadest.
> 
> Note that the graph is intensity normalized for each individual LED -- it's not saying they all have the same absolute intentity . . . maybe I'll be the guinea pig and order an L334 with the XTE for the LEDgends triple housing I've been waiting to build up for a helmet light


----------



## vroom9 (Feb 24, 2009)

The HEW type LEDs don't have the phosphor directly on the LED die. This makes the emitting surface larger with less lumens per square mm. That is why the HEW XP-E is less of a thrower. Now this XT-E appears to have the phosphor right on the LED die so you would think better for tight focusing. The main difference is the LED is not flat. The non flat nature tends to have the light less focused. However, since the XT-E die looks smaller, it should counteract that effect.

You have to remember that all the LEDs now are really made for the mass market of lighting. Tight focusing is not a priority for the manufacturers. We need to give it a try and see how they actually work. With what I have been able to read it sure seems like the XT-E will outpreform the XP-G in real world use.

Just need to get some and give them a try. A 35mm XT-E triple sounds about right.


----------



## vroom9 (Feb 24, 2009)

Cutter has XT-E's on boards now. A few different singles, two triples, and a quad.

Cutter Electronics


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Still only see blues on 10mm rounds though:sad:


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

The links for the tripple and quad don't work? Also looked for them in the leds on pcb section, not listed there yet.
Looks like only singles available at the mo...

Unless its this crappy dolphin browser on my phone, seems to have got worse after the last update!


----------



## vroom9 (Feb 24, 2009)

I think the web page might be a work in progress. To get to the triples click the "Detailed information" button under the image.


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

vroom9 said:


> I think the web page might be a work in progress. To get to the triples click the "Detailed information" button under the image.


Sorry i should have said, I meant the 20mm tripple and the 24mm quad..


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Cant find series printed pcb's on cutter yet, only addressable pcbs for the round 20mm triple and 24mm quad 
Or can these pcb's still be soldered with the usual two wires +/- in series
Or do need to solder each led in series additionally?
Cutter Electronics
Cutter Electronics

edt: looking at this pcb Cutter Electronics
it looks though you can either address the leds all parallel, series parallel, all in series or address each led


----------



## encouragable (Dec 24, 2011)

They seem to only have triples on 32mm boards: 
[No link due to post count. To find: Cutter.au-->products-->Cree LED's-->XTE White--> a couple of link icons for boards, click on 32mm]

Though it looks like they're updating fast; they didn't have that many (addressable) triples on 20mm boards when I checked a few days ago. Wish they had 14's, I have a few flashlights I want to retrofit.


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

Goldigger said:


> Cant find series printed pcb's on cutter yet, only addressable pcbs for the round 20mm triple and 24mm quad
> Or can these pcb's still be soldered with the usual two wires +/- in series
> Or do need to solder each led in series additionally?
> Cutter Electronics
> Cutter Electronics


I ordered a couple of the individually addressable triples today also. They have pads to install zero ohm resistors (or just bridge with a piece of wire) across 2 of the 3 sets of pads between each LED. The remaining unbridged set then becomes your + and - connection for the series string.


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

kwarwick said:


> I ordered a couple of the individually addressable triples today also. They have pads to install zero ohm resistors (or just bridge with a piece of wire) across 2 of the 3 sets of pads between each LED. The remaining unbridged set then becomes your + and - connection for the series string.


Thanks, that pic makes more sense :thumbsup:
Could probably just put a blob of solder to bridge the two pads..

I've ordered some tripples and a quad..


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Is there any reason why I can't wire 3 xt-e's in parallel and use a lflex to drive them?
Although I wouldn't be able to drive the leds at 1.5 amps..

Quad board should marry up with a b3flex..


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

Goldigger said:


> Is there any reason why I can't wire 3 xt-e's in parallel and use a lflex to drive them?
> Although I wouldn't be able to drive the leds at 1.5 amps..


I don't see any reason why not. That's the beauty of the individually addressable board, you have the choice of wiring it up for series of parallel applications. :thumbsup:


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

20mm series boards are now available
Cutter Electronics


----------



## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

Hi Goldigger,
waiting for the new B3flex too.
cavent, with quad in 2x2, + V-drop from driver,
would need a 3S + battery.



Goldigger said:


> Is there any reason why I can't wire 3 xt-e's in parallel and use a lflex to drive them?
> Although I wouldn't be able to drive the leds at 1.5 amps..
> 
> Quad board should marry up with a b3flex..


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Goldigger said:


> Is there any reason why I can't wire 3 xt-e's in parallel and use a lflex to drive them?
> Although I wouldn't be able to drive the leds at 1.5 amps..
> 
> Quad board should marry up with a b3flex..


The 6up XPG that I just finished is wired 2S3P using an lflex and 7.4V battery. It hasn't been on the trail yet, but so far seems fine in bench tests and trying to do beamshots.


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

rschultz101 said:


> Hi Goldigger,
> waiting for the new B3flex too.
> cavent, with quad in 2x2, + V-drop from driver,
> would need a 3S + battery.


Hi Rob,
Ive got yo be honest, thats the most useful post ive seen from you 

Yep your right that does work out nicely, B3flex set to 3amps and 2x2 for thr leds. I'm just wondering how hot these leds gets. 3 XPG's at 1500ma produces lots of heat..

looks like i need to sort another battery pack out..

Ta


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Goldigger said:


> Hi Rob,
> Ive got yo be honest, thats the most useful post ive seen from you
> 
> Yep your right that does work out nicely, B3flex set to 3amps and 2x2 for thr leds. I'm just wondering how hot these leds gets. 3 XPG's at 1500ma produces lots of heat..
> ...


But didn't you just buy a warehouse full of "selectable voltage" batteries?


----------



## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

thanks !
sometimes the obvious, is genius !
I tried the B3flex with 2 XML on a 2S battery, but the Vf drop,
made it not usable.
then I ordered an XML-EZ, built it up, no go , dead,...
found out , got the 12V version, ok,... 4S battery should be ok,
riding with a 4S on handlebar anyway,.... well no go.
at current it wants 12.7V + 2V drop, even a 4S battery was not enough. rrrr
wasted another built. 
 2x XML and Lflex works, so does a 4 xpg, 2x2, but per my calculations,
it still gets toasty at full 2S battery.
oh, an XPG over 1.2A does not bring much.
on paper 3up xpg at 1.2A does over 1k+ lumen,
in praxis, after it heated up ~950 , ~12.6W still ok for the handlebar, except , most don't have a 4S battery.
still have not replaced my frankenstein brick monster,
4.5k with 32 dies, kinda like it.
working on my junior Frankenstein brick light. a lot less zombie parts, and better looking,
but not as powerful ,... means no boat anchor (heavy battery) needed to power it. 

hope , any of this was useful ?

.


Goldigger said:


> Hi Rob,
> Ive got yo be honest, thats the most useful post ive seen from you
> 
> Yep your right that does work out nicely, B3flex set to 3amps and 2x2 for thr leds. I'm just wondering how hot these leds gets. 3 XPG's at 1500ma produces lots of heat..
> ...


----------



## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

rschultz101 said:


> I tried the B3flex with 2 XML on a 2S battery, but the Vf drop,
> made it not usable.
> then I ordered an XML-EZ, built it up, no go , dead,...
> found out , got the 12V version, ok,... 4S battery should be ok,
> ...


well, that is why we keep bleating on about running 1 more series cell than you have LEDs for the Taskled buck drivers. We're really not making it up you know


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

XTE - [email protected]°C for $10.77?

XPG - [email protected]°C for $21.50?


----------



## vroom9 (Feb 24, 2009)

Toaster79 said:


> XTE - [email protected]°C for $10.77?
> 
> XPG - [email protected]°C for $21.50?


Makes it an easy decision doesn't it. It's really going to put a big dent in the other LED manufacturers sales just on the price let alone the light output at high temps. If Cree can produce these new XT-E and BD-E LED's in large numbers, they are going to be making a lot of $$$. Actually they really need it as the company has not been doing so well in the last year. Competition has dropped the stock price by about half and Cree is not forecasting much recovery in earnings for the next few quarters.


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

Toaster79 said:


> XTE - [email protected]°C for $10.77?
> 
> XPG - [email protected]°C for $21.50?


Where are you getting those prices from?

*duh* I just realized you were talking about the 3 up boards! :blush:

Yeah, that's a good price for sure... I hadn't really thought about how much cheaper they were than the equivalent 3 up XPG.


----------



## langen (May 21, 2005)

Any real world comparisons between XPG and XTE yet? Both wrt total output and beam angle with different optics


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Just been looking around and confused 
seen XTE High voltage ??????

whats this mean


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Just been looking around and confused
> seen XTE High voltage ??????
> 
> whats this mean


Just another version
Typical voltage
46v - @ 22ma http ://www.cree.com/products/xlamp_xte_hv.asp


----------



## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

high voltage LED's very important in the lightning market space
that is stationary. home lightning, street lightning.
it is also pushing in the automotive, with electric cars.
for portable led lights, it is currently not used.
since that would require more complex and expensive drivers.
for industrial, it is the opposite. 
there a lots of advantages , if you can use a higher voltage for driving the LED's.
the current gets lower, yes , everybody knows
below 1A, you only need 1 via on the pcb, it gets cheaper
with the voltage higher, the mosfet losses are lower
with lower current , need less copper 
and much lower EMI interference.
of course , also loads of challenges .

for MTB DIY lights, just forget about the high voltage LED's,
or make sure, you don't buy them by mistake.


----------



## ecthelion (May 6, 2007)

langen said:


> Any real world comparisons between XPG and XTE yet? Both wrt total output and beam angle with different optics


This is what I'd like to see! I've been pestering Quazzle about their availability on an L334 (yes if his vendor has them in stock) but really don't want to place the order til I see a beamshot or two from folks who ordered samples. Those L334 boards are a bit expensive to get wrong.


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Anyone recieved there XT-E's from cutter yet?
I'm trying to work out which part of my order is on back order..as none of the items i ordered were shown as out of stock


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

Mine shipped out 4 days ago. Being in Canada I probably won't see them for another 10 days or so.

Yeah, the lack of indication of stock status on Cutter's site is one thing I really don't like. I ended up emailing them after placing my order to confirm all my items were actually in stock and would ship.


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

Not yet. Ordered few 20mm 3ups last week but still no answer from cutter. They must be reflowing them big time


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

It's strange as they show certain bins out of stock for the xml's..
Would be nice if they could show on our order status which parts are out if stock, then we can contact them and cancel that part if your in a hurry for the other parts..
Guess ill chuck mark an email..


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

Actually I just checked again and order was shipped on 3/3/2012, so should be here around the end of next week.


----------



## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

From DigiKey.com

Click here for slide show / training module

Cross reference XT-E to XP-G @ 350ma

Cross reference XT-E to XM-L @ 700ma


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

Today's inbox  :


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

Toaster79 said:


> Today's inbox  :


Nice! Would you be able to do a closeup shot of one of the XTE boards?


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

This is the best I can do :

























With Satu 9 deg. 20mm optics:


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

How comes you went for the ledil satu optic? 
I've got a few here and they were crap with xp-g's, the carclo is miles better.
But they may work better with the xt-e

Is it me or do the domes look bigger than an xp-e?


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

Toaster79 said:


> This is the best I can do


Thanks! That gives me a pretty good idea how much the die is obscured by the remote phosphor. I have a feeling this will be more flood than XPE and maybe even more than XPG.


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

The domes are bigger than XP series. Dunno about the optics, just ordered what came first in sight. I have some 3up XP-E boards to compare some beam shots (working on them right now, just wired maxflex and mom switch).


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

kwarwick said:


> Thanks! That gives me a pretty good idea how much the die is obscured by the remote phosphor. I have a feeling this will be more flood than XPE and maybe even more than XPG.


I think you could be right..not only that but looking at this picture..









The die is not flat, looks like Cree found a way to increase the dies surface area. But also keeping the package small..
More surface area more lumens..


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

Quick beam shots - F4 S6" ISO100 WB Daylight (I'll try to make some better ones tomorrow ):

maxflex @1300mA, Satu 9deg XT-E:









maxflex @1300mA, Satu 9deg. XP-E:


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Thanks for the beam shots Toaster.

They appear to be aiming at slightly different spots, the XTE favours more lower right, the xpe more upper left.

Is there anyway when you do your next lot you shine them against the white side wall of the house and at lower power settings, this makes it much easier to compare beam patterns from a purely spot / flood perspective.

Thanks again.

Interestingly the cutter home page here has a little table on it that shows the Cree "Discretes or directionals", the xt-e is not one of them.


----------



## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

Danke Schön! Hvala lijepo ! Thanks!


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

Goldigger said:


> I think you could be right..not only that but looking at this picture..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That seems consistent with comments that the XTE is aimed more at the general illumination market with a dispersion pattern somewhat closer to that of a light bulb.

I was hoping for something that would give a 20mm 3up light a tight hotspot similar to if not better than XPE with the lumens of XPG... not looking so likely now. :sad:


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

looking at the pics again I think it would make a good bar light, and I like the colour rendition more than the xpe it is compared with.

Thanks Toaster


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Toaster, have you got a carclo optic? if you have any chance of a shot using that please?
looking at the pics the satu doesn't really give the XPE a spot beam either..
When i tried the satu on the xpg it was just all flood and no hot spot..the carclo did..


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

I'll see what I can do about the optics.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

The color is nicer on the XTE. It seems to me that this is more like an XPG beamwise but is a better color and happy at 85C. Might be worth a build with Reginas.


----------



## zemike (Sep 3, 2007)

kwarwick said:


> That seems consistent with comments that the XTE is aimed more at the general illumination market with a dispersion pattern somewhat closer to that of a light bulb.


Say hello to LED halogen  Looks like the XT-E will be useable with larger optics.


----------



## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Vancbiker said:


> The color is nicer on the XTE. It seems to me that this is more like an XPG beamwise but is a better color and happy at 85C. Might be worth a build with Reginas.


That's exactly what I was thinking. The colour is much nicer and they don't mind getting hot. As it would appear that these LEDs are designed to replace good old bulbs.....Good old bulbs work great with reflectors.

As zemike just said "LED halogen".

I feel a build coming on.

Toaster, could you tell me what ones you ordered please? I can't get my head around Cutters bin codes and the tint I will receive. I would like the same tint that you have.


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

yetibetty said:


> Toaster, could you tell me what ones you ordered please? I can't get my head around Cutters bin codes and the tint I will receive. I would like the same tint that you have.


I ordered these.


----------



## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

What do you think about pumping XT-E up to 2+A? It should be more "heat resistant" than XP-G.


----------



## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

bringt nichts.

thermal resistance of XT-E is 5C/W for the chip, XM-L 2.5C/W
that's per my thumb, 4 times worse.
that does not account for the PCB, what is very important, but usually not know.
with the XM-L , performance drops after 2A, between 2.5A-3A is mostly heat.
on paper the XT-E at 1.5A is as good as the XM-L at 3A , but thermally worse .
if you need 2A , stick with XML.
if you need more, MPL, MTG, SST90 , ... needs a very good thermal path


----------



## encouragable (Dec 24, 2011)

rschultz101 said:


> bringt nichts.
> 
> if you need more, MPL, MTG, SST90 , ... needs a very good thermal path


There's a new emitter forthcoming from the manufacturer of the SST90. Called the CBT-90, may well overtake the SST90 in single-die power. Can be driven up to 13.5A, over 2500 lumens. Its going on Thrunite's TM20. There's videos and spec sheets floating around.


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

A10K said:


> There's a new emitter forthcoming from the manufacturer of the SST90. Called the CBT-90, may well overtake the SST90 in single-die power. Can be driven up to 13.5A, over 2500 lumens. Its going on Thrunite's TM20. There's videos and spec sheets floating around.


Looks like CST-90 is what you're referring to. CBT-90 is less powerful than SST-90.

Luminus Devices: CST-90 White LED


----------



## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

thanks kwarwick !

for single 20mm pcb, the MT-G is my favorite.
Combining Multiple LEDs Into One Diode
3x more dies than the XMl and lower thermal resistance 
2 x the watts, with 2x the voltage, and better color,


----------



## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

With such a small foot print and rapidly declining output at additional current why not simply use more of them. An XT-E can have a foot print of only 10mm x10mm x7mm so space should really not be much of a concern. Of course if you want killer throw you may need to step up to a 20mm optic but its still small. For the same total watts of energy used more devices at less current will make more lumens than fewer devices with more current.


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

rschultz101 said:


> thanks kwarwick !
> 
> for single 20mm pcb, the MT-G is my favorite.
> Combining Multiple LEDs Into One Diode
> ...


That MT-G is a beast 









But I'm guessing it might fit in ledil boom..


----------



## encouragable (Dec 24, 2011)

Depends on what you mean by "killer throw". Reflectored 50,000lux throwers using the tiny XR-E chip still use heads about 50mm wide. Smaller head throwers all use aspherics and are still in the 30+ mm range. Look up the Deft EDC-LR (can't post links). That kind of 0-spill throw is rarely used in mountain biking/road lighting, so these types of solutions are rare, and in most cases several smaller, more efficient emitters are the way to go.


----------



## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

Guys
Let me just say one thing
XBD.....XBD......XBD

small optical source will give what you want when using secondary optics, logically if look back historically from XRE


----------



## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

When will the XBD show up soldered to boards? I mentioned it before but sort of forgot about it since its not even listed on a 10mm board. I am hoping it will work well with the carclo 10mm squares. Speaking of which carclo is now listing on there website a 10mm optic for xp series that are IP rated. These new optics seems very well suited to xt-e and x-bd


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Them IP rated optics are going to increase the size of the housing with the skirts that need to be stuck down..


----------



## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

bikerjay said:


> When will the XBD show up soldered to boards? I mentioned it before but sort of forgot about it since its not even listed on a 10mm board. I am hoping it will work well with the carclo 10mm squares. Speaking of which carclo is now listing on there website a 10mm optic for xp series that are IP rated. These new optics seems very well suited to xt-e and x-bd


We currently have the 20mm star
Cutter Electronics

10mm would be based on demand, if you like it we will build it
Cheers


----------



## mrradlos (Sep 3, 2010)

You have even 4 on a 20 mm star! But what optic to use for throw?


----------



## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

Well I would recommend you try several of the usual suspects. To be honest optics is too subjective a matter for me to push one way or another. My view is the smaller point source will be a better throw platform based on past experience


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I found these pics on cpf that show good comparison for sizes...its bigger than i imagined!

























WeLight will you be offering the XBD on addressable triple 20mm pcbs?


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

mrradlos, yes this is tasty!!
................. XBD R4! 20mm!!!









................ 
how hard could you drive this?
even with a naff reflector there`s just a ton of light!
(or am i missing something)


----------



## mrradlos (Sep 3, 2010)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> ................. XBD R4! 20mm!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As the four XB-D are near to eachother and don't suffer that much from heat, it might be possible to wire them parallel. What about all four parallel, LFlex set as high as possible (3.5A) from a single 18650, of course 4A would be nicer! 
I can see a nice little helmet light for the fast downhills appearing there out of the dark ....:idea:


----------



## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Goldigger that photo showing the sizes is awesome. It looks like the XT-E has a huge dome but the actual chip substrate(slightly darker area with the x) looks like its relatively small. Not sure what to make of that.


----------



## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

> Them IP rated optics are going to increase the size of the housing with the skirts that need to be stuck down..


What are IP Rated optics?


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

ThinkBike said:


> What are IP Rated optics?


Water resistaant to some degree.


----------



## zemike (Sep 3, 2007)

The XB-D are of the same technology as the XT-E but in a smaller package, thus less heat resistant and with a smaller max current (1A vs. 1.5A for XT-E)

I guess that they are not for throwers.


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

My cutter package arrived today...so wired up a 24mm quad XTE..coupled with a carclo quad optic.
Initial impression is beam similar to the xpg..but with one big issue..
A yellow center of the beam..and up close a yellow halo..


----------



## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Interesting results with the halo. Of course this just raises more questions from me. Do the bare emitters no optic produce a halo held up close to a nice white sheet of paper? Have you tried any other optics? I am planning on using the 10mm carclo squares as I like the low profile of a rectangular design. I have found the 10mm carclos to be just like the 20mm tripples which is really not surprising since in all likely hood there the same lens design. The 10mm squares come in a frosted version which for a flood might solve the halo issue. I am assuming your results are with the narrowest available quad.


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I used this optic..Cutter Electronics
Not sure on the white piece of paper..might see if i can get a beam shot later..


----------



## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

pictures please !

if you can take some closeup, 
of the optics , feet, if they sit flush on the board,
if the feet are taller then the board,... optics sit higher.

optics on top of LED's , side pics ( phone camera with magnifing glass , works too)

---
don't recall, seeing bond wires on the xt-e,
but die sits higher.
once I get mine, I want to do the razer-blade test, 
cut the top part of the dome.
---


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Rob do you want a women posing naked next to them?
The optics fit perfectly...cant get a pic to show the yellow spot in the beam, but these are about the best i can get to show the yellow halo..as they normally just over expose..


----------



## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

I'm wondering if this is just the result of being so close to the paper. In Toaster79's beam shots, I didn't notice any obvious yellow coloration.

It seems that the farther you get away from the paper, the smaller the area becomes that's covered by the yellow halo.

Maybe this won't be a problem out on the trails or road.


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

ThinkBike said:


> In Toaster79's beam shots, I didn't notice any obvious yellow coloration.


That's because there isn't any. At least I didn't notice it in close range(approx. 0.5m from the wall). The coloration is uniform from spill to spot.

In GDs case it might be the plastic around the lenses picking up some of the light of the remote phosphor or even lenses themselves. Don't know. Should try it myself.


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

ThinkBike said:


> I'm wondering if this is just the result of being so close to the paper. In Toaster79's beam shots, I didn't notice any obvious yellow coloration.
> 
> It seems that the farther you get away from the paper, the smaller the area becomes that's covered by the yellow halo.
> 
> Maybe this won't be a problem out on the trails or road.


Theres no paper...the leds are on the floor pointing up at the ceiling..8.3ft..


----------



## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

thanks!
nacked LED's , will do.









this might help, 
---
since the halo is getting smaller with distance,
might not be a big problem. probably need to do an outdoor test.

thought about the optic position, 
since the XT-E is higher then an XP-G, it might benefit a little, 
to actually raise the optics. lowering , be a lot harder.
off course, crud, since the side light leakage , be kicking in.
had also good luck, with mixing led's, 
crud again, since it's pita, to scrape them of the board, and put a new one on.
quick fix, might be cutting an xpg board in half, do have some lying around,
should be getting mine end of week.
other thoughts, don't know the current you ran through,
but the color shifts slightly , with higher temp, and higher current.
--
just checked with the square optics, and with the xpg, there seam to be
~0.5mm + space between the optic and the led body.
so there might be some room to experiment, grinding down the feet,
to lower the optics.
---
oh, I got halo's too . 








thanks again , for the first hand report. big cheers !


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I ran 1.5 amps through them, 13.6v for all 4...
That big lump of ali for a heat sink got pretty toasty to..


----------



## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

Goldigger and Toaster79, what tints are each of you using? I wonder if that could have an effect?


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

toaster79 said:


> i ordered these.


4000k R4


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I order this for the quad Cutter Electronics
R4 6500k not sure about that as it seems to yellow 

The tripples are these, which I've not tried yet. R5 6500k
Cutter Electronics


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

Mine are 4000K R4


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

After playing around tonight with the 20mm 3up XTE boards I got from Cutter I have to say I'm rather disappointed. I was hoping for something with tighter throw than a 3up XPG and it seems to actually be worse, at least when used with the Carclo narrow optics.

That big dome with the phosphor distributed throughout has to be the issue as if one was to look at the die size is pretty much the same as XPE. Oh well... more LEDs to put in the part drawer hoping to be used someday.


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I never seem to bump into naked women out on night rides..even round the dogging spots 
I might use one of my XTE tripple boards as a spindle light on the mill..I already have a single xml at the moment being driven by a hipCC that's in the circuit box..


----------



## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

got my XT-E's,
quick test so far, with 4up, and same pcb , XP-G R5 , XT-E R5
the XT-E is about 9-10% brighter
has about a 15% brighter spot
is about 7% more efficient, than 2x XML's, since you need to run the XML's at double the current.
noticed a yellowish spot on the 4up spot lens, 
have not tested it outside, it might not be a problem, but a feature.
have not cut the dome off yet. my guess is, it could yield a 30-40% better spot.
have not compared an XML with a 20mm lens to the xpg / xte with 10mm lens.
other notes, a 3up xp-g , gets to 1000 lumen plus,
while a single XM-L , can't reach that. and that in a 20mm package. 
current king of the hill, is an XM-L in a 3up plus. 
for helmet light a 2x XML or a 3-4 XPG/XTE is fine.
have not tried the single XB-D yet.


----------



## degar b (Mar 15, 2012)

How soon see reflector beam shots?

Will the new technolgy get 50k hours like the old?


----------



## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

my 50c

3UP CREE XT-E R5 (cool white), CARCLO 10507 Narrow Clear Lens:










"Classic" 3UP CREE XP-G R4 (outdoor white), CARCLO 10507 Narrow Clear Lens:


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

XTE hot spot looks ever so slightly smaller, but there seems to be a tint shift toward yellow/green in the corona around the hot spot. I'm still sitting on my 3up XTE boards trying to decide if they are an improvement over XPG or not.


----------



## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

i also made some measurements in my sphere and XTE showed even worse performance at 1.5A vs XP-G (both are rated as R5). No surprise as XT-E's datasheet clearly shows that XT-E efficiency is not as good as XP-G's at currents above 1 amp.

but agree, the biggest problem of all XT-E's (I also tested warms) - not even color radiance and some excessive yellowish flood around hot spot (very similar to XP-E HEW)


----------



## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

I'm disappointed that there isn't more of a difference between XTE and XPG. According to the Carclo specs, the XTE should throw slightly better. The beam shot Quazzle put up does seem to indicate a smaller hotspot. 

The Cree Product Characterization tool is showing that the XTE should beat the XPG in output, but not by much.


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Price wise the XT-E on a triple PCB is half the cost of a triple XP-G £6.39/$10.27 vs XP-G £12.96/$20.85 (there both R5)
Plus there's the 85 degree C binning of the XT-E..


----------



## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I was waffling, but put in an order for an old-school XP-E L334 thrower, rather than experimenting with an TX-E. Looks like it may have been a good call for a helmet thrower.


----------



## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

XP-E's on sure provide a way better focused beam when used with Carclo Narrow Clear Lens (16 degrees FWHM vs 26 degrees with XP-G/XT-E). From this point XB-D testing is intriguing as they use even smaller die than XP-E plus rated up to 1Amp forward current. With minimal modification I'll be able to install XB-D's on my triples/future boards


----------



## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Oh sure, now you tell me


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

quazzle said:


> XP-E's on sure provide a way better focused beam when used with Carclo Narrow Clear Lens (16 degrees FWHM vs 26 degrees with XP-G/XT-E). From this point XB-D testing is intriguing as they use even smaller die than XP-E plus rated up to 1Amp forward current. With minimal modification I'll be able to install XB-D's on my triples/future boards


Right, but as we've learned smaller die doesn't mean more throw. Looks like XB-D uses the same phosphor spread throughout the dome as XT-E, no? If so I would suspect it won't be much of an improvement for throw over XP-E, but I'd love to see some beam shots!


----------



## ecthelion (May 6, 2007)

quazzle said:


> XP-E's on sure provide a way better focused beam when used with Carclo Narrow Clear Lens (16 degrees FWHM vs 26 degrees with XP-G/XT-E). From this point XB-D testing is intriguing as they use even smaller die than XP-E plus rated up to 1Amp forward current. With minimal modification I'll be able to install XB-D's on my triples/future boards


Please keep us updated with the results on the XB-D's . . . I'm holding out on my 334 order until all these new LEDs get tested, as I want a nice throwing headlamp but would like just a bit more lumens than the XP-E


----------



## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

ecthelion said:


> Please keep us updated with the results on the XB-D's . . . I'm holding out on my 334 order until these new LEDs get tested, as I want a nice throwing headlamp but would like just a bit more lumens than the XP-E


The XBD will certainly add variety to the various LEDs available. However, if you use the Cree Product Characterization tool, along with Carclo's candelas per lumen numbers for the narrow 10mm (or triple 20mm), the XBD will come close to the XPE in throw, but not beat it.

Using the Cree tool: 88% optical efficiency 88% Electrical Temp: 85C 1 Amp

XPE - 219.8 Lumens

XBD - 275.5 Lumens

Carclo Numbers from the XPC equal to XPE post

XPC = 21.0 cd/lm
*XPE = 9.8 cd/lm*
Nichia 119 = 7.5 cd/lm
*XBD = 7.1 cd/lm*
Samsung 3535 = 5.8 cd/lm
XTE = 5.0 cd/lm
XPG = 4.6 cd/lm

XPE = 219.8 x 9.8 = 2154.04 Candelas - 3.735 watts consumed

XBD = 275.5 x 7.1 = 1956.05 Candelas - 3.656 watts consumed

If the calculations are correct, the XBD should be a very nice emitter, with more light spread over a wider area and it won't quite throw as far as the XPE. With the lower price per emitter, it's certainly a good value, but the XPE should still throw farther.


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I've got a theory regarding the yellow halo thats produced with the XT-E and carclo 10507 optic..
I think the parts that ive roughly coloured black in this pic screw the beam up a bit, im going to make a insert that blocks off those four corners..only thing im thinking is it might reduce the lumens out the front..


----------



## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

I think it could be due to the lumps on the die. Not all bits of the die will be the pefect distance from the optic to be in focuus, some will be but the outof focus bits will produce a colour change.

Might be better for a reflector than a flat die LED but I think a TIR optic will have problems.

Just thinking out loud here is a not too good drawing of what I think could be the problem.
EDIT: Yes I have had a few beers and no it's not a space ship


----------



## zemike (Sep 3, 2007)

The XT-E and XB-D use a new technology called "remote phosphor". Basically it is a royal blue emitted covered by a dome filled with remote phosphor.

If you remove the transparent dome from an old tech white XP-E you'll get white light. If you remove the yellow dome from a white XT-E you'll get a royal blue emitter.

So the only decent way to focus the light would be reflectors, not TIR optics. BTW did anyone ever see TIR optics for halogen bulbs ?


----------



## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

did cut the dome on the quad xt-e,
and center brightness did increase, would guess ~30%.
but light spread got also more non-uniform .
have not got around to actually measure some numbers.
if it is different, it's not a defect, it's a feature. think it might improve depth of field .
most users might want a more uniform light, as color shift, is recognizable and distracting at first.


----------



## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

> So the only decent way to focus the light would be reflectors, not TIR optics.


Why?

I don't understand how remote phosphor equates to needing reflectors instead of optics. I'm not arguing the point, I'm just ignorant and need some education on the subject.


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

I'm almost ready to cut the domes off a light with 20mm 3up XPG board and Carclo narrow optics. What's the best way to accomplish this without doing damage to the die or bond wires?


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

Razor blade and steady hands


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

?


----------



## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

I am hoping that some one here can help me figure out the Bins currently listed on cutter.com.au. 

Two of there are easy to find on the binning and labeling sheet. The other one is a mystery - maybe its supposed to be HE3. - XTEAWT-02-0000-000000HE1


Below are the two that are decipherable.

minimum Luminous R4 CCT 75CRI Typical 
Flux (lm) @ 350 ma* 130 5000K XTeawT-00-0000-00000lGe3

minimum Luminous R2 CCT 75CRI Typical 
Flux (lm) @ 350 ma* 114 4000K XTeawT-00-0000-00000lee5


----------



## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

Cree initial data had cool white in flux groups, H being R5, if it makes it simpler it is 
XTEAWT-00-0000-000000H51, these will be 5800-6500K bins
Cheers
Mark


----------



## Rekkie (May 26, 2011)

Anybody tried it with an aspheric yet? Curious to see what the beam would look like...project a ''x'' or so...


----------



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Rekkie said:


> Anybody tried it with an aspheric yet? Curious to see what the beam would look like...project a ''x'' or so...


I just had a play...its not good.
In focus you get two squares, one faint with a brighter one inside and an X from corner to corner..
And a load of yellow outlines..

Out of focus you can get a round beam but still loads of yellow around the outer part of the beam..

Sorry no beamshots..didnt think it was worth the trouble with the ugly beams produced..


----------



## encouragable (Dec 24, 2011)

That's why I haven't posted my XT-E or XB-D pics yet. Has anyone managed to get a light meter, an XT-E, and a Carclo 20mm tight (10003) in the same room yet? I've been having bad results with the focusing but can't figure out if that's my poor mounting or if they focus much worse than the XP-G/XP-E counterparts.


----------



## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

zemike said:


> The XT-E and XB-D use a new technology called "remote phosphor". Basically it is a royal blue emitted covered by a dome filled with remote phosphor.
> 
> If you remove the transparent dome from an old tech white XP-E you'll get white light. If you remove the yellow dome from a white XT-E you'll get a royal blue emitter.
> 
> So the only decent way to focus the light would be reflectors, not TIR optics. BTW did anyone ever see TIR optics for halogen bulbs ?


That's not exactly true! I managed to remove one of the XT-E's dome and figured out that the phosphor is not part of the dome. The die and the rest of the base is covered by phosphor and the silicone dome is aplied over it also covering the rest of the base. But, when removing the dome some of the phosphor that is over the raised area might stick to the dome.


----------



## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

cut dome with razor blade .
cut the tip, 1/3 to 1/2 should do. 2/3 max,
don't need to remove the whole dome. 
the little bit on the side , left over, is mostly vertical, and might be beneficial .
the dome is for spreading the light, and for evening out color shifts.
leave 1 out of 3 / 4 with dome on, and or mix afterwards with 1 additional higher kelvin / CRI 
to mask the shift.
other thoughts: 
to heat up the LED to 120-150C, to remove the dome completely .
---
please share your experience with de-dome, measuring outputs, thoughts , etc
thanks, Rob


----------

