# Late 80's- Did XTR exist?- what is "Deore" ?



## mojo (Mar 23, 2004)

I'm collecting parts for a 1990 XC frame build and was wondering what grade Shimano parts were offered at that time . Was there XT and XTR parts and do they say "XT" and "XTR" ? My neighbor has a nice quality Crank marked "Deore" where does Deore fit in the line up? Finally, how do the Suntour XC Pro parts compare?


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Until 1992, there was no XTR. XTR was the first group to have 8-speed components; until that time the best Shimano had to offer was XT. The stuff marked "Deore" is usually DX, which was a group Shimano produced until 1993 or 1994; it's one grade below XT, and is actually often the exact same stuff with a less expensive finish.
Suntour XC Pro was Suntour's top of the line component group, and was comparable to XT. It was produced until 1995 when Suntour got bought out.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

XC Pro was considered a slight upgrade from XT. For example on Paramounts in 90 and 91, the top of the line bike came with XC Pro and the second one down had XT. XC Pro groupos I think cost about $150-200 more than XT as well.

Yeah, some Deore parts were pretty much identical to XT. Most notably the cantilever arms. But for the most the XT was noticably nicer. The XT shifters seemed to have a much nicer, snappier click. The deore shifters also had those chinsy stamped steel bar clamps too. XT was pretty nice back then.

I wonder if it is considered by Shimano to be better, worse, or the equivalent quality level to the current XT..... I would probably guess it was a little better back then but Im not real familiar with the current XT either.


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## manitou916 (Mar 6, 2004)

uphiller said:


> Until 1992, there was no XTR. XTR was the first group to have 8-speed components; until that time the best Shimano had to offer was XT. The stuff marked "Deore" is usually DX, which was a group Shimano produced until 1993 or 1994; it's one grade below XT, and is actually often the exact same stuff with a less expensive finish.
> Suntour XC Pro was Suntour's top of the line component group, and was comparable to XT. It was produced until 1995 when Suntour got bought out.


Deore / Deore DX
--------------------------
"Deore" was a groupset in itself back in 1988, second only to "Deore XT" which was Shimano's top groupset at the time and both were 6 speed.

Then in 1989 both groupsets were updated to 7 speed: "Deore XT II" and "Deore II". Note that the latter was still marked as just "Deore".

In 1990 the 7 speed "Deore DX" was release (1990-1993) and it inherited SOME of the MT62 model components from its 7 speed predecessor "Deore II". For example, although Rapidfire brakes/shifters were a new feature in the "Deore DX" marked MT650 component range they would still offer "Deore II" thumbshifters and brake levers because people weren't yet convinced by Rapidfire. In fact the only "Deore II" component which wasn't updated with a brand new "Deore DX" equivalent was the MT62 cantilevers!

So technically anything in the MT62 range should still be classed as "Deore II" and not "Deore DX", a mistake many people tend to make. Also, everything true "Deore DX" was marked "Deore DX" (and/or new model numbered) and not marked "Deore" as uphiller was implying.

For a 1990 build I would recommend a straight Deore XT (M735/M732) groupset and you have a choice of either Rapidfire shifters (STM-091) or XT thumbshifters (SL-M732)... personally I would go with thumbshifters every time.

Suntour XC Pro
-----------------------
Suntour XC Pro appeared in 1990 and disappeared in 1995. It was only really comparable to XT/XTR because it was Suntour's top of the range groupset, but in terms of shifting and braking they were always second best to Shimano. I did own a XC Pro MD groupset for a year or so back in the day because it was significantly lighter than XT/XTR... but that's about the only praise I can honestly give it.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Ya, those 1990 rapidfires werent so great. I did really like that 1991 first year XT servowave brake lever. 1992 they went to rapid fire plus I think it was called and teh rest is history. 1989-90 XT II is really great stuff. That would be my choice too. A bit porky though.

My evaluation of XC Pro is similar. I didnt like the shifters as much, the non hyperglide shifting was much clunkier, the brakes were probably not as good, but the rest of the parts were great. Great hubs, cranks, derailleurs, etc. The parts all had Grease Guard too so that was nice. Definitly a real nice group, just not quite the shifting refinement of the XT and XTR. I could run it and be happy though, especially with a hyperglide cassette.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

uphiller said:


> Until 1992, there was no XTR. XTR was the first group to have 8-speed components; until that time the best Shimano had to offer was XT. The stuff marked "Deore" is usually DX, which was a group Shimano produced until 1993 or 1994; it's one grade below XT, and is actually often the exact same stuff with a less expensive finish.
> Suntour XC Pro was Suntour's top of the line component group, and was comparable to XT. It was produced until 1995 when Suntour got bought out.


It was shimano's first offroad group with 8 speed cassettes but Campy's 1991 Record OR had already gone 8 speed in back. Furthermore since MTB hubs and road hubs of the time were identical, you could build an 8speed shimano setup using the duraace rear hub and cassette, and a thumbshifter in the friction mode easily enough.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> It was shimano's first offroad group with 8 speed cassettes but Campy's 1991 Record OR had already gone 8 speed in back. Furthermore since MTB hubs and road hubs of the time were identical, you could build an 8speed shimano setup using the duraace rear hub and cassette, and a thumbshifter in the friction mode easily enough.


In 91 it was actually Euclid. They didnt have Record OR then. And I think Campy might have even had 8 speed in 90 but not sure. I used the Euclid in 91 and it was pretty bad. It shifted pretty bad, had bad ergonomics and if you thought XT was overbuilt this early Campy stuff was made for a Peterbuilt.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

*Shimano component history*

I have posted a year by year history of Shimano parts @ http://www.firstflightbikes.com/shimano.htm Included is the part number for each component for each year. While I was compiling the list, I was surprised at the number of small changes from year to year.


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## manitou916 (Mar 6, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Ya, those 1990 rapidfires werent so great. I did really like that 1991 first year XT servowave brake lever. 1992 they went to rapid fire plus I think it was called and teh rest is history. 1989-90 XT II is really great stuff. That would be my choice too. A bit porky though.
> 
> My evaluation of XC Pro is similar. I didnt like the shifters as much, the non hyperglide shifting was much clunkier, the brakes were probably not as good, but the rest of the parts were great. Great hubs, cranks, derailleurs, etc. The parts all had Grease Guard too so that was nice. Definitly a real nice group, just not quite the shifting refinement of the XT and XTR. I could run it and be happy though, especially with a hyperglide cassette.


Tell me about it, my first Rapidfires broke within a week! They came as standard on my Offroad Proflex (the original True Temper red/black frame with single green elastomer). I agree, the Servo Wave levers were an improvement.

The XT II groupset was so well designed and even the extra click on the thumbshifters for 8 speed showed how forward thinking Shimano were... not that they would every do anything it these days because they would rather make us buy a whole new set of shifters each time 

I liked the XC Pro shifters for the light weight but they weren't as easy to grab a handful of if you needed a quick change in a wet/muddy race. The XT II shifters were also far more robust... but you have to be careful not to strip-thread the bar clamps!

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about GreaseGuard, a major plus for XC Pro. And lets not forget the XC Pro GreaseGuard pedals! They were IMHO superior to the XT competition pedals and the fact that they sell for more on eBay is testament to their reputation.


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