# Niterider Smart Batteries Rebuild-able?



## Widgeontrail (Mar 15, 2006)

I have an old Niterider light with a "Smart Battery" called so because there is a computer chip in there, I guess. It no longer holds a charge, it it possible to rebuild these?

If so how do i get those weird hex bolts with the bar in the middle of the head out?


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

should be, whether it's Li-ion or NiMh. Those bolts are "safety" bolts, you just need to buy the appropriately sized safety allen key (eBay perhaps?). Once you get inside, you'll see a set of batteries soldered in series. You need to be able to unsolder them and replace them with the same type of batteries.

Once you have it open, post a picture so we can give better advice on what type of batteries you need to get


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## Widgeontrail (Mar 15, 2006)

Thnx. Its NiMh. I'm gonna try to find a safety hex today.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

cool. When you have it open, measure the cells, as I don't know if they're AA, 4/3AA or any of the other funky NiMh cells OEMs used. Then start checking out prices of those cells with tabs (to make soldering easier).


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## borrower (Feb 26, 2011)

You might have to search for security torx. Good pix of various driver types here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx


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## Widgeontrail (Mar 15, 2006)

Its a hex or allen head. I'm having a hellva time finding safety or tamper resistant hex wrench. I found some drill bits, but they are too fat to fit in the hole. 

I can find the safety torx. I wonder if those would work?

I'm about to try to drill out the plastic around the bolt head!


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

Tamper resistant

http://www.mcmaster.com/#torx-drivers/=dgl406

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## Widgeontrail (Mar 15, 2006)

Thnx Scar, i checked that site, but they only have standard sizes (that i can see). My bolt is 3 mm.


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

Have a look in a combination set. I got a big case of different drill bits and driver heads from B&Q. British DIY store. May be worth heading down to your equivalent and routing around!


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

How about this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Bondhus-3MM-Tamper-Resistant-Hex/dp/B002KICUKI

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## Widgeontrail (Mar 15, 2006)

Thanks. Yeah, that was the only one i could find too. Having a hard time paying $12 for a single Allen wrench, but it looks like i may have to.Was hoping to find one local. oh well.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

Widgeontrail said:


> Thanks. Yeah, that was the only one i could find too. Having a hard time paying $12 for a single Allen wrench, but it looks like i may have to.Was hoping to find one local. oh well.


Take a small punch and a hammer and break the security pin out of the screw head. Just put the head of the punch against the security pin at as much of an angle as you can. Then give it a quick sharp blow with the hammer. The pin will typically snap off pretty easily because it's brittle from the heat treatment. Then you can use a regular allen wrench.


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## Widgeontrail (Mar 15, 2006)

Finally got the sunuva***** open. There are five 4500 Mah batteries in there. All about 2 5/8 inches long. I assume i can just find some other 4500 Mah batteries to replace it with? Anything else i should be aware of.


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## Widgeontrail (Mar 15, 2006)

Also was wondering if it's possible to overclock it? Buy higher powered batteries? or just get the same ones? Thanks for any insight. I'm a complete noob here


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

yep, just get some tabbed cells and solder them up the same way. To find out which cells you need, measure the length and width in mm and look up the values here
Standard cylindrical and prismatic battery size chart

if it's a halogen light, adding 1 cell will overvolt the light and make it brighter, but you'll need a new charger

if it's an LED light, the battery has no effect on the current going to the LED, only the driver


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## Widgeontrail (Mar 15, 2006)

Matt, thanks for your help. I re-built the battery pack and works well. although it didn't seem to give me the burn time the original battery did - only about 70-80 minutes in high (15 watt). if i add another cell will it make the burn time longer? Also, you said i'll need a different charger - can you expand on that?


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

Widgeontrail said:


> Matt, thanks for your help. I re-built the battery pack and works well. although it didn't seem to give me the burn time the original battery did - only about 70-80 minutes in high (15 watt). if i add another cell will it make the burn time longer? Also, you said i'll need a different charger - can you expand on that?


NR use pretty decent batteries, so it's possible that the ones you bought aren't as high capacity as the originals. Hopefully you didn't buy them from China, in which case all bets are off as they lie through their teeth about battery capacities.

As they're halogens, adding a cell will overvolt your bulb, which will make it run brighter (and whiter) at the expense of bulb life, with little difference on battery life. Because the voltage of the battery is different and standard chargers have a fixed voltage output, your existing charger won't work with the new "+1 cell" battery.

If you want the light to run for longer, then you need to double the cell count and wire those extra cells in parallel to the existing ones. For cells in series, you add the voltage, eg. 2x 1.2V 2000mAh cells in series = 2.4V 2000mAh battery. For cells in parallel, you add the capacity, eg. 2x 1.2V 2000mAh cells in parallel = 1.2V 4000mAh. The trouble with NiMh though is doing that will make your battery weigh as much as a brick. You will be able to use the same charger though.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

mattthemuppet said:


> NR use pretty decent batteries, so it's possible that the ones you bought aren't as high capacity as the originals. Hopefully you didn't buy them from China, in which case all bets are off as they lie through their teeth about battery capacities.
> 
> As they're halogens, adding a cell will overvolt your bulb, which will make it run brighter (and whiter) at the expense of bulb life, with little difference on battery life. Because the voltage of the battery is different and standard chargers have a fixed voltage output, your existing charger won't work with the new "+1 cell" battery.
> 
> If you want the light to run for longer, then you need to double the cell count and wire those extra cells in parallel to the existing ones. For cells in series, you add the voltage, eg. 2x 1.2V 2000mAh cells in series = 2.4V 2000mAh battery. For cells in parallel, you add the capacity, eg. 2x 1.2V 2000mAh cells in parallel = 1.2V 4000mAh. The trouble with NiMh though is doing that will make your battery weigh as much as a brick. You will be able to use the same charger though.


You can parallel NiMh cell during the discharge to increase capacity, but you can't charge them in parallel. You have to build it as two separate packs, charge them independently, and use something like a Y connector to parallel the packs together for discharge.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

ah, didn't know that, sorry for the misinformation


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## aperion (Dec 7, 2011)

MtbMacgyver said:


> You can parallel NiMh cell during the discharge to increase capacity, but you can't charge them in parallel. You have to build it as two separate packs, charge them independently, and use something like a Y connector to parallel the packs together for discharge.


I am curious about this statement, why would you have to charge them separately? After all, aren't two packs in parallel going to be the same as one larger pack?

Asking because I think mine is dead and I am looking to rebuild, possibly use normal rechargable NiMH's in place of the 4/3 A that is used in the pack.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

aperion said:


> I am curious about this statement, why would you have to charge them separately? After all, aren't two packs in parallel going to be the same as one larger pack?
> 
> Asking because I think mine is dead and I am looking to rebuild, possibly use normal rechargable NiMH's in place of the 4/3 A that is used in the pack.


When you charge NiMh batteries, it's purely a current based charge mechanism. The voltage of the cells varies based on the internal resistance and state of charge of the cells. Since the internal resistance, and hence the voltage, varies from individual cell to cell, if you try to charge them in parallel, you are locking the voltage of the parallel cells together. As a result, the charge current won't split evenly between the parallel cells. One cell ends up undercharged, and the other ends up overcharged.

Also, since most NiMh smart chargers use -dV/dt algorithms to terminate the charge, the parallel cells mask that small voltage drop that indicates full charge because it occurs at different points in time for each parallel cell. The net result is that the smart charger never terminates properly and the whole pack ends up being severely overcharged. Overcharging kills NiMh pack very quickly.


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## aperion (Dec 7, 2011)

MtbMacgyver said:


> When you charge NiMh batteries, it's purely a current based charge mechanism. The voltage of the cells varies based on the internal resistance and state of charge of the cells. Since the internal resistance, and hence the voltage, varies from individual cell to cell, if you try to charge them in parallel, you are locking the voltage of the parallel cells together. As a result, the charge current won't split evenly between the parallel cells. One cell ends up undercharged, and the other ends up overcharged.
> 
> Also, since most NiMh smart chargers use -dV/dt algorithms to terminate the charge, the parallel cells mask that small voltage drop that indicates full charge because it occurs at different points in time for each parallel cell. The net result is that the smart charger never terminates properly and the whole pack ends up being severely overcharged. Overcharging kills NiMh pack very quickly.


oh wow, that was an awesome response and description, thank you!


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## RideThis (Feb 2, 2012)

*Niterider Smart Battery Tool*



Widgeontrail said:


> I have an old Niterider light with a "Smart Battery" called so because there is a computer chip in there, I guess. It no longer holds a charge, it it possible to rebuild these?
> 
> If so how do i get those weird hex bolts with the bar in the middle of the head out?


I bought this 32 bit,allen and Torx set at Ace Hardware.They come in a Red Rubber Case,and Are hollow right through.they fit but the driver part is tight, But i got into mine with these, there is just a 5 pack of batteries 2.560 long and .625 around, Says 4000 mah Japan IKHon them Green Coating the computer chip must be this tape on the back end, it has 420 GWAX printed on it,I only opened my battery tonight ,I will take it to work tommorrow and test each cell, and the little white tape thing,I may be wrong but i have seen things like this on other electrical objects and am convinced that they are time limiters.that is this piece will only last so many cycles before it fails ,and you have to buy another. will get back,as i check this out.


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## Widgeontrail (Mar 15, 2006)

I re-built mine and it wasn't really worth it. I spent about $40 on batteries. I should have saved the money and just bought a modern light that is MUCH brighter. The old light was about 145 lumens which is squat these days.

I ended up buying a Niterider MiNewt 600 for a $100 on ebay and it is FAR superior. That's all i use now.


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