# Anyone DJ using Stans?



## UrbanPounder (Feb 19, 2007)

I have taken some decent drops on my fully with no problems. New to DJ and really only bought a chase ht to fun around on close to home. Then I found a small jump in a park near by.......I'm hooked. Using a tube/tire setup until I get a new wheel set and then convert to Stans. Hoping to find or make bigger and bigger jumps as I progress. Anyone DJ using Stans? Curious.


BTW....This forum has got me thinking about tossing lots of parts and converting to single speed. Maybe sell the front BB7 and X7/X9 trig/der. Some real clean rides some have here.


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## audi0phile (Jul 6, 2006)

Tubeless is a bit of a bad idea. Tubeless is an ideal set up where low pressures and traction is needed. While that sounds enticing for dirt jumping and park riding (squishier landings) you actually run a chance of blowing the tire off. Leave tubeless on the trails and stick with some tubes in yer tires.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Bad bad bad idea. There's just no point to it and I personally think it would be quite unsafe. One botched landing with no suspension out back and you've got a tire off the rim.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

I used to do it. It rarely burped. I ended up ditching the tubeless stuff because it kept drying out and wouldn't seal when I slashed the tire riding urban.

Tubeless is actually so you can run higher pressures with lower rolling resistance and better traction. Plus you don't pinch flat.


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## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)

I have a UST 'XC' 2.1 tire on a UST wheel with a cup or two of Stans sealant and I've had pretty good luck so far... I've also run non-UST tires (Maxxis Holy Rollers) tubeless with Stans and it was just fine.

For the record, the idea behind tubeless is to be able to ride a *lower* air pressure (thus increasing traction) without the risk of pinch-flatting. *That's not a free ticket for running your tire at 20 psi because you're likely to roll the tire and that's terrible.* There's still a slight chance that could happen (see Jared Graves' result at 4x World's this year) even with higher air pressures, but at the end of the day, you're in the same boat as somebody who rides with tubes and pinches. Same difference. The Stans system is proven to be FAR more reliable than anything short of pure DH tubes as far as preventing pinch flats -- and it saves weight.

Bottom line: *tubeless is perfectly fine for jumping*, just make sure you're running the right air pressure for the right job. Don't be stupid. Just because you CAN run lower pressure, doesn't mean you have to.


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## audi0phile (Jul 6, 2006)

Ehhh, I dunno Rb. To be honest, both times I burped my tire the pressure was a bit low (maybe around 20?) but that proves a point, if I had a tube I would have pinchflatted, but since it was tubeless I nearly wiped out on pavement and ate crap. That and the horror stories I get from our customers coming in and huckin a little to big with tubeless tires.


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2008)

I use it for my DJ/Park bike running Holy Rollers, Azonic Outlaws and Maxxis rim strips. With the pressure up to 35/40 PSI they rarely burb or give me any problems.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Rb said:


> For the record, the idea behind tubeless is to be able to ride a *lower* air pressure (thus increasing traction) without the risk of pinch-flatting.


Don't say that in the DH/FR forum... they think otherwise... and will chew you out for it.

You should be able to achieve the same traction with a tubeless by using a higher pressure than a tubed tire at a lower pressure. This is because there is no tube supporting the tire, so it is more compliant. And at the same time the increased pressure helps to reduce rolling resistance.

Though I thought that it was so that you could run lower pressures without pinch flatting...


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## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Don't say that in the DH/FR forum... they think otherwise... and will chew you out for it.


those idiots.


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## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Though I thought that it was so that you could run lower pressures without pinch flatting...


That's what I thought... But in reality, you can run the same pressures with no pinch flats. What a revelation! :lol: (I'm strictly UST though.)


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

too high maintenance for me....


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## UrbanPounder (Feb 19, 2007)

Thanks for the input. I think one has to have good experiences using Stans in order to trust it. So any nay sayers, I totally understand. 
Like Rb said "Don't be stupid." I've run some stupid rim/tire setups in the past using tubes, mainly too wide of tire for the rim, also at times some stupid high pressures. (Not even going to tell how stupid) I feel lucky that a tire did roll off or just plain explode a rim. Anyway, building some wheels for for DJ'ing and so far its mavic ust 823's with non-ust table tops. Hubs and spokes are up in the air still. I don't jump very big now so I'll use Stans and watch for burps. Burps are not so bad, you don't want burps but at least they are a sign to watch for. My thought is using mid pressures 30-35psi jumping which should prevent rim from pinching, but adjust as necessary. I like the flat protection with Stans so much that I liken any maintenance required for using, to fixing the flats I would of had out riding, all at once, on my time, at home with tools and bike in a stand. Like to say that this is not intended to be an endorsement or ad for Stans in case it comes across as such.

This is how strange and unprovoked tires can act. When I first brought the chase home which had been at REI for some time and test ridden alot plus I rode it for a while that day, I switched out the whole rear wheel assy with a better one and leaned the original against the wall. Came home next day and it was flat. Turns out the tire (Kenda) was damaged upon installation. The rubber around the wire bead was scraped at the bottom and suddenly broke free stretching over the rim and let the tube out. Makes extremely loud bang. Been in a shop when a BMX tire blew a few minutes after the rider filled it. But it blew just sitting there? Not bopin off some curb, just sitting there all calm. My cat must of been home indoors when it blew because she has had problems since.


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## Err (Mar 21, 2005)

Didn't bother to read all the posts but yes, I have done it. And yes, it has been with complete success. Including riding park and working on 1/4 pipe transfers where I kept landing all the way to flat and side-loading the hell out of the tires. 1 time I burped a tire but I was very high and slammed down extremely hard. All who witnessed agreed that I would have flatted a tube tire.

On dirt I have noticed significantly increased traction when there was a little loose dirt over a hard packed surface. 

On tire selection, I have had great luck with DMR moto diggers. I'm now running Schwalbe table tops but have not tried to convert them yet.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

for those who may have tried, how does stans work with psi's around 70+?


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

It won't hold 70 PSI for very long. It slowly leaks back down to 50ish.


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## Strauss (Apr 27, 2007)

To my knoweledge the higher the pressure, the more reliable stans can be. And I say *higher* pressure but obviously too much is not good. This is with ghetto-stans though, not UTS tires or rims. The higher pressure will seal more reliably.

I've never done it but I plan to as soon as my new tires come in. What appeals to me the most is the increased traction. I've only ever had 1 pinch flat and it was on a 20. 

Another motivation for me is the lack of 24 inch tubes at any LBS. I've only seen one at an LBS and it was for a 1.9" tube. F-that... my tires are 2.4. I'd rather Stans it than order them. honestly. The convenience of tubes isn't convenient at all when you can't find them.

If anyone has any ghetto recipe's for a stans mod please post it up. I've love to compare people's notes, especially if they make their own stans mixture. Is super glue reliable on the bead for a ghetto stans mod... or should I not bother with this extra precaution?

Thanks ahead of time.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

so 120psi on a KHE Mac2 is out of the question for tubeless/stans? or better?


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## audi0phile (Jul 6, 2006)

Strauss said:


> To my knoweledge the higher the pressure, the more reliable stans can be. And I say *higher* pressure but obviously too much is not good. This is with ghetto-stans though, not UTS tires or rims. The higher pressure will seal more reliably.
> 
> I've never done it but I plan to as soon as my new tires come in. What appeals to me the most is the increased traction. I've only ever had 1 pinch flat and it was on a 20.
> 
> ...


Well it is more like a range. Will kind of pointed it out with the high pressure question. When I set up tubeless I generally get the tire to around 40 45 psi to insure that the sealant is pushed into the sidewall. Then I lower it on the trail to around 30. If you go to low with tubeless it is easy to blow the tire off the wheel/roll it off. Too high and it can unseat itself and doesn't hold air too long. I would say 20 to 50 psi is a good range for a tubeless tire.


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## Err (Mar 21, 2005)

I have run right around 70psi on DMR motodiggers setup tubless on 819's with no problem. I would expect 823's to be similar. 

I had no luck getting the same tires to seat on converted Arrow FRX's. There's definitely some limitations here and getting the right combo is important.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Perhaps it was my rim/tire combo... I probably should've added one more rim strip under the Stan's strip. It wasn't the easiest tire to seat. I dunno, all I know is that it didn't hold 70 PSI for the entire ride.


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## Err (Mar 21, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Perhaps it was my rim/tire combo... I probably should've added one more rim strip under the Stan's strip. It wasn't the easiest tire to seat. I dunno, all I know is that it didn't hold 70 PSI for the entire ride.


I certainly believe you. There is significant variance in the quality of tubless setups. Tires, rims, stans, strips, prep all contribute to a wide variety of outcomes.


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## KavuRider (Sep 22, 2004)

My Matador is rolling Minion 2.5's with Stans conversion on Transition wheels. I run about 40 pounds and haven't had any issues yet. That includes some large drops to flat and casing a few gaps really hard. 

I could see it being a problem with lower pressure...but I can't understand why you would run low pressure for DJing or Urban.


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## UrbanPounder (Feb 19, 2007)

You guys are crazy......70psi!!!! A 823 rim has a rating of 54psi max and goes down from there the larger the tire size. A 321 rim is 48psi max.

I gotta go......be back and finish this later.


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## DSFA (Oct 22, 2007)

UrbanP, where are you finding psi ratings for rims? Just curious because road tires run in the 100-125psi range and I, along with many bros, run bmx wheels at 100psi to keep from pinch flatting and better rolling on ramps (high G-forces on trannies). 
I've ran MTB wheels with 26 x 1 slicks for commuting at 100psi also with no problems for years so like I said...just curious where those numbers come from?


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

UrbanPounder said:


> You guys are crazy......70psi!!!! A 823 rim has a rating of 54psi max and goes down from there the larger the tire size. A 321 rim is 48psi max.
> 
> I gotta go......be back and finish this later.


are you in the right forum?
no tractor pulls or drag races here...

I'm with DSFA, regularly above 70psi on my duece-quad, and over 100 on the bmx...

Like I mentioned above, the new KHE kevlar street tire for big wheels, the Mac2, is rated at 120psi.

you run low psi's for a couple of street rides, tubeless or not, and your heavy-coin 823 hoops will be scrap metal.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

I was unaware that people ran such high pressures for DJ/Urban, but if you do run higher pressures you won't have issues with the bead rolling off the rim. You may burp a little bit of pressure but I've never once seen any sort of catastrophic failure that lead to a crash, even off big hucks and drops. The days of tubes are numbered IMO.


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## Err (Mar 21, 2005)

Jim311 said:


> I was unaware that people ran such high pressures for DJ/Urban, but if you do run higher pressures you won't have issues with the bead rolling off the rim. You may burp a little bit of pressure but I've never once seen any sort of catastrophic failure that lead to a crash, even off big hucks and drops. The days of tubes are numbered IMO.


I may have spoken out of context. For DJ, I'm usually in the low 30 psi range. For Urban/Park I'll run 70+, especially for pumping around in a pool.


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## DSFA (Oct 22, 2007)

Agree with Err. For dirt, pressures in 30-40 range (I'm in the Clydesdale zone so need higher pressures just in general), parks I run 80+ and street 65+. Basically it comes down to more pressure= less chance of pinch flatting w/ a harsher ride or less pressure= more comfy on the wrists and ankles w/ more likely chance of flatting.
The great thing about tire pressure experiments is it just takes time and a pump and playing around to figure out what works for you.

And remembering to duck and roll when your front tire peels off because it's too low :lol:


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## UrbanPounder (Feb 19, 2007)

Sorry guys, I've been here a couple times and hit the post button and it was like the server went down. Lost em. Hate doing things twice, you know. No time either.



DSFA said:


> UrbanP, where are you finding psi ratings for rims? Just curious because road tires run in the 100-125psi range and I, along with many bros, run bmx wheels at 100psi to keep from pinch flatting and better rolling on ramps (high G-forces on trannies).
> I've ran MTB wheels with 26 x 1 slicks for commuting at 100psi also with no problems for years so like I said...just curious where those numbers come from?


I guess I should of not got so excited at 70psi and you all are not crazy. 
Got the numbers from the logo sticker that is on each mavic rim. Its a chart that gives a min/max tire width with corresponding max psi. Basically as the tire width increases the max psi decreases and you use the numbers to calc max psi for the tire widths that fall between min/max. Anyway 100psi in 1" slicks is ok. A 117 and 321 are 113psi max for a 1" wide tire. I may of confused things by posting "A 321 rim is 48psi max." I meant for a 2.3" wide tire.

Also, went to the streets last nite. Jumping up a curb and was late bringing the rear up and pow, nothing happened, but it sure felt like rim. So I up the psi, as noted by you all.


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## Strauss (Apr 27, 2007)

Using a tube I run 80 psi, i think using stans I would run 65 or 70 psi.


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## UrbanPounder (Feb 19, 2007)

Strauss said:


> Using a tube I run 80 psi, i think using stans I would run 65 or 70 psi.


Super moto's at 40psi w/stans would be high for me. 32psi right now and going on a midnight 24 mi. and maybe 24 back before sunup. I ran Hookworms at high psi and they were rock hard. Every tiny POS on the roadway would echo thru them loudly. Always suddenly FMO.

Whats the make of your 2.4 tires that can take 80psi?


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Maxxis Holy Rollers, Lopes Bling Bling, Kenda Kiniption, K-Rad, DMR Moto, Arrow etc.


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## Strauss (Apr 27, 2007)

UrbanPounder said:


> Super moto's at 40psi w/stans would be high for me. 32psi right now and going on a midnight 24 mi. and maybe 24 back before sunup. I ran Hookworms at high psi and they were rock hard. Every tiny POS on the roadway would echo thru them loudly. Always suddenly FMO.
> 
> Whats the make of your 2.4 tires that can take 80psi?


K-rads or Kiniptions. 35-80 PSI.


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