# Gustav vs. Code...brakes for a big boy



## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

I've narrowed my brake purchase down to these two choices. They'll be going on my '02 RFX and will be responsible for slowing and stopping my 270lb carcass both on the trail and on lift-assisted downhill runs. I've done extensive searching and I've read _every_ thread on mtbr that mentions either of these brakes. Yes, every one.  Plus I've PM'd with a few new Code users to get their impressions.

That said, I'm looking for fresh input and/or comparisons from anyone who's interested in giving input.

Here are my thoughts:

Gustav 

Powerful
Heavy
Expensive
Use Mineral Oil (non-caustic)
Look Cool
"Floating Caliper" design may have some brake drag

Code

Powerful
Heavy
Expensive (but less the Gustavs)
Use DOT brake fluid (caustic)
Look Cool (but IMO not as cool as the Gustavs) 
No floating caliper, _probably_ means no drag

The fact that I like the Gustav's aesthetics is _not_ enough reason to get them, if all other things are equal. It seems to me that Gustavs have the reputation for being the (or one of the) most powerful DH brakes made. At my size I certainly could use a most powerful brake. It still seems to early to tell (no real ride reports on DH trails) if the Codes match up. If anyone has any relevant experiences or info it would be much appreciated.

Patrick


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2006)

Thats a good comparison....

Another plus about the codes, the levers are ILL


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## A MAN CALLED HORSE (Nov 3, 2004)

The Gustavs are tremendous stoppers, superbly built and need to be experienced to be believed. After being broken in properly there was no drag on mine. If you buy them make sure you get the version you're gonna stick with because the adaptors cost a fortune- if you change from IS to postmount for example. The Codes are probably very good, but they CANNOT be any better and boy are they ugly.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Both are good brakes....whichever you choose you will be happy...I would be leaning towards the Codes.....cheaper and brake fluid can run higher temps if you are doing resort runs

BTW I have not used either.......I really like the Saints and they stop me just fine at 210 (armour 230)


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2006)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> Both are good brakes....whichever you choose you will be happy...I would be leaning towards the Codes.....cheaper and brake fluid can run higher temps if you are doing resort runs
> 
> BTW I have not used either.......I really like the Saints and they stop me just fine at 210 (armour 230)


20 lbs of armour, I think you need some lighter stuff


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## skate (Feb 19, 2004)

I run the Gustavs and the work pretty damn good. I weigh about 220 and 240 something with gear and would totaly recommend these. As far as drag is concerned I had it a bit when I was first setting them up, but it can be fix with the proper amount of spacers. So until I recently bent my rotor I did not have any drag/rubbing noises at all.

I was in your situation asking the same question on trying to decide between the same two and decided to go with the Gustav's and could not be happier. 

I've taken a look at the Codes and thier brake pads are tiny compared to the gustav's (pretty much almost standard size). So I'm not sure where all the stopping power comes from. I'm guessing it is the 4 pistons that gives it that much more preasure to make them make contact.
On the other hand the Gustavs have longer brake pads which would mean more breaking surface, plus it has bigger pistons. So I again I am assuming that this would give it the breaking power that it has. Who knows.....That's just my uneducated guess.

But it seems that they both have what your looking for, so like SMT said I don't think you can go wrong with either.


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## Master_Jako (Mar 27, 2004)

if i had to choose from the 2, i would go witht he gustavs simply cuase i rode them a bit and they are an unbelievable brake ( at least until you try em out :thumbsup: )


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## mtb_biker (Jan 27, 2004)

There are some benefits to mineral based brakes as well outside of it being non-toxic and paint friendly. One of the major ones is that mineral oil will not absorb water from the air (DOT will), Absorbed water causes gas bubbles to form in the system which creates a sprongy feel and you'll often see dot based brakes with this symptom.

Gustav's have been out for awhile, and this is the first year for Codes as well.


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

I was looking at Gustavs for a while and it got me a thinking... Why all this quest for power? I weight 230lbs and I haven't found a hydro brake (properly bled) that I can't lock out my rear wheel with. The friction point (when your wheel locks) is going to be the same no matter what brake you run, so I don't see a point in buying $500-$600 brakes that have "more power." That extra power is never used because the friction point will always be the same (depending on breaking surface, ie, rock vs. sand). 
What seems more important to me would be modulation, which is key, because there is no other situation than a panic emergency stop that you need to lock out your wheel. Better modulation would actually create more "power" because stoping time is greatly reduced if you can have your brakes at the point right before the friction point, but not locked.
My saints have alway had great modulation with not nearly as much weight as thoes Codes or Gustavs add. Just my $00.02
Rant over, someone correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2006)

fred.r said:


> I was looking at Gustavs for a while and it got me a thinking... Why all this quest for power? I weight 230lbs and I haven't found a hydro brake (properly bled) that I can't lock out my rear wheel with. The friction point (when your wheel locks) is going to be the same no matter what brake you run, so I don't see a point in buying $500-$600 brakes that have "more power." That extra power is never used because the friction point will always be the same (depending on breaking surface, ie, rock vs. sand).
> What seems more important to me would be modulation, which is key, because there is no other situation than a panic emergency stop that you need to lock out your wheel. Better modulation would actually create more "power" because stoping time is greatly reduced if you can have your brakes at the point right before the friction point, but not locked.
> My saints have alway had great modulation with not nearly as much weight as thoes Codes or Gustavs add. Just my $00.02
> Rant over, someone correct me if I'm wrong.


Its just one of those less effort things, just like a lighter bike, its easier to move around and crap..... A powerful brake is easier to use beucase its less effort


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## Imperial (Jun 9, 2006)

Just another option here  ,serious amount of power in these,

Clarks Clim8 6 Piston

* Powerful
* Heavy
* Very cheap
* Modulation
* Very Reliable
* Use Mineral Oil (non-caustic)
* Look ok

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=248075


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Its just one of those less effort things, just like a lighter bike, its easier to move around and crap..... A powerful brake is easier to use beucase its less effort


I've never felt like one finger over the brake was too much effort... but maybe it's just me. 
Spending $300 more on a pair of brakes for less effort on one finger seems kinda 

I guess I can see it on some of the lower end brakes like hayes 9s, but even thoes were fine for me if they were bled right. But I do see your point, kinda.

Saints are the way to go, cheaper than most of the higher end breaks, w/ power and modulation to boot.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> 20 lbs of armour, I think you need some lighter stuff


lots of water


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

fred.r said:


> I was looking at Gustavs for a while and it got me a thinking... Why all this quest for power? I weight 230lbs and I haven't found a hydro brake (properly bled) that I can't lock out my rear wheel with. The friction point (when your wheel locks) is going to be the same no matter what brake you run so I don't see a point in buying $500-$600 brakes that have "more power." That extra power is never used because the friction point will always be the same (depending on breaking surface, ie, rock vs. sand).


That's a good point, and this is an issue that I've struggled with while making this decision. The fact is, I don't know how well _any_ hydro brake is going work for me while downhilling. The only brakes I've used while downhilling are the cheapo Shimano mechs that are OE on my HT. As you can imagine, they were woefully inadequate. This experience made me decide that I wanted/needed to have brakes that will perform as I need them, when I need them, powerfully and without fading. My real-world and mtbr research led me the the Gustavs. The seem to be a no comprise solution and fall into my current philosophy of "getting the right tool for the job the _first_ time".

I've have not demo'd the Gustavs (nor the Codes) but have tried out several models of hydros (Juicy 7s - on 2 different bikes, Hayes Soles, Magura Louise FR) on demo bikes on trail rides (not downhilling) and they all more or less worked OK. Of these, the Maguras "felt" the best. The Soles were spongy (needed bleeding, probably) and of the the two different sets of Juicys were OK, their performance did not stand out.

At this point I've got to make a choice based on my (admittedly limited) experiences, the experiences of those I've spoken with, the "reviews" and opinions of forum members and to a lesser extent on the depth of my wallet. At 270lbs plus gear (so figure 290lbs with clothes/shoes, some armor and a loaded camelbak) I'm at the extreme end of what most components can handle. AFAIK Gustavs are the only brakes that are tandem rated, and I'm practically the weight of both members of a tandem racing team combined.



fred.r said:


> What seems more important to me would be modulation, which is key, because there is no other situation than a panic emergency stop that you need to lock out your wheel. Better modulation would actually create more "power" because stopping time is greatly reduced if you can have your brakes at the point right before the friction point, but not locked.


I have only read good things about the Gustavs modulation. I have no way of comparing the modulation "characteristics" of different brakes, unless there's a vendor out there that will let me demo a bunch of different models on my bike. I don't think there is, though.  It seems that the absolute power of the brake is particularly relevant for me (because of my size) especially when I need to use them to control myself at high speeds. A less powerful brake may not modulate well in this "upper level" of braking. And this is the range where I need the brakes to work the best, when it's most critical. I've formed the opinion that the Gustavs will do this best. Several posters here have confirmed this belief.



fred.r said:


> My saints have alway had great modulation with not nearly as much weight as thoes Codes or Gustavs add.


I know that there are many people (yourself, SMT, others) that are very happy with the Saints, and I may be wrong, and it is possible that Saints or Juicy's or El Camino's would work just as well, but I'm not willing to take a chance that they will be even mildly ineffective. I'd rather overdue it (and over-spend), then be unsatisfied with the performance of a brake and have to upgrade anyway.

Thanks for your input.

Patrick


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

fred.r said:


> Saints are the way to go, cheaper than most of the higher end breaks, w/ power and modulation to boot.


I just priced out the Saints: a set of 8" rotors front and rear with Saint levers comes to $380 at Universal Cycles, which right around a price quote I've gotten for the Codes. It likely the Saints can be found cheaper elsewhere. The Gustavs are certainly more ($80 to $100) more for the set.

Patrick


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

I'm running 190mm Gustav front, 180mm Louise rear. I'm very happy, the Gustav front is awesome. Drag is no problem, just face your mounts and it'll be fine. They are by far the biggest brake I've ever seen for a bike. The pad area is about double most other brakes, its like having two calipers on the rotor. 

I got mine used for $100, but saw a new set on ebay for $330 or so... Magura would probably trade out adapters if you buy them new as well. 

I have never tried Codes, but other avids seemed grabby, the Mags feel much better, IMO. I have only heard good things about Saints, too.


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## Udrija (May 13, 2006)

I posted a thread not too long ago and am the same weight as you about the codes and really didnt hear anyting negative about going with the codes.Mine came in the mail yesterday but wont be able to use them till this week or next


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## Largextracheese (Feb 4, 2004)

*Gustavs..*

I've had my Gustavs for about 3 years and couldn't be happier. I weigh 230 without gear with a 190mm in the front and a 160 in the back they are perfect. I rode the probably 400+ runs at Whistler these last 2 seasons on these brakes and they just work perfect. The modulation 
is indeed the selling point of these brakes. It's not just when you're inching down a slippery log but also when you're railing berms at mach speed and you just need alittle feather of the brakes to keep things smooth. That's when they shine. Also the mineral oil doesn't break down like the DOT stuff does so you can run them for years without touching them. The downside is the price of adaptors. I switched from I.S. this last season to Post mount and the adaptor cost me 92 bucks! Otherwise they have a great warranty and good customer service. Brake drag is nonexistent if shimmed right. I always vow to never buy the first run of new products so the Codes would be a "wait and see" kinda thing for me. Oh yeah, they are dead silent unlike the Juicy's. Buy'em.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

PCinSC said:


> That's
> I know that there are many people (yourself, SMT, others) that are very happy with the Saints, and I may be wrong, and it is possible that Saints or Juicy's or El Camino's would work just as well, but I'm not willing to take a chance that they will be even mildly ineffective. I'd rather overdue it (and over-spend), then be unsatisfied with the performance of a brake and have to upgrade anyway.
> 
> Thanks for your input.
> ...


I was debating on different brakes........Juicy's and El Caminoes didn't have the power I wanted...El Caminoes especially....

.....I was really surprised with the Saint brakes because they have very little lever pull and I was afraid of on/off and no modulation at all......the Saints were very good, modulation was awesome with less pull then My Hayes Mags and more power with less strain on the fingers when pulling.......


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> .....I was really surprised with the Saint brakes because they have very little lever pull and I was afraid of on/off and no modulation at all......the Saints were very good, modulation was awesome with less pull then My Hayes Mags and more power with less strain on the fingers when pulling.......


Well, I'm now considering getting a wheelset with Saint hubs, so it looks as if Saint brakes are back up for consideration. There is a wheel deal that several e-tailers are offering that's almost too good to refuse. So I have to admit I'm pretty confused at this point, as it seems my brake purchase may be linked to my wheel purchase. :madman:


If I get the Saint-based wheelset, I should get the Saint brakes for compatibility reasons. That's my cheapest option.

If I go with a hand-built set of wheels (not Saint hubs) then I can get the brake that I really want...the Gustavs. This option is much more expensive.

It's not like either is a bad choice. I guess the question that I have to answer is whether it's worth the extra money to get the Gustavs (and am I willing to spend that money). The answer is yes, I'm willing to spend the money, and since I've already convinced myself that I _need_ the Gustavs, it seems like that's what I should get, regardless of whether they're that much better in performance or not.

That's a pretty poor rationale for spending several hundred more dollars, but I guess the weight weenies spend that much trying to save 100 grams on their race bikes.

Any opinions that will further confuse me are welcome. :crazy: 

Patrick


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

PCinSC said:


> Well, I'm now considering getting a wheelset with Saint hubs, so it looks as if Saint brakes are back up for consideration. There is a wheel deal that several e-tailers are offering that's almost too good to refuse. So I have to admit I'm pretty confused at this point, as it seems my brake purchase may be linked to my wheel purchase. :madman:
> 
> 
> If I get the Saint-based wheelset, I should get the Saint brakes for compatibility reasons. That's my cheapest option.
> ...


you don't have to get saint hubs to get Saint brakes (I am running Hadleys w/6 bolt Shimano brake rotors-you get as a set when you buy the Saints ...along with the rotors that fit the Saint Hubs.......If I was you I would save the cash and run the Codes.....but I always say....stay away from first year out stuff....so go for your Gustav

Big Choice, But Saints, Codes Gustav....neither you could go wrong


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> you don't have to get saint hubs to get Saint brakes...


I realize that, I have yet to make my decision whether I'm gonna get a wheelset with Saint hubs and that will determine whether I'm gonna get Saint brakes or not. Kind of a package deal.

If Saint hubs = yes, then Saint brakes = yes.

If Saint hubs = no, then brakes = Gustavs, Saints, Codes or other...



SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> ...so go for your Gustav. Big Choice, But Saints, Codes Gustav....neither you could go wrong


Yeah, can't go wrong. Except if I biff and break a caliper, it's cheaper to replace a Saint then it is a Gustav. Although the rotors are about the same price. See, I'm still on the fence. :madman:


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## skate (Feb 19, 2004)

PCinSC said:


> I can get the brake that I really want...the Gustavs.


Just go for what you want and it seems like money is not an issue. So why not?

this way you won't be wondering what would it be like if you would have went with what you really wanted.

If you don't want to spend all that money then look for them on ebay. I have seen set's go for 300 dollars for both front and rear. Way better then spending 300 dollars each front or rear.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

PCinSC said:


> IYeah, can't go wrong. Except if I biff and break a caliper, it's cheaper to replace a Saint then it is a Gustav. Although the rotors are about the same price. See, I'm still on the fence. :madman:


if you are that much on the fence...then I would try to demo some saints at a local bike shop....maybe that will help you decide...or find someone that has them.........it is a very tough decision....good luck on whatever you choose.......if you have the cash get the Gustav's but I would still demo the Saints first


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

i hafe run the gustavM on my budy's sunday... this brake is unbelievable fast. 
if you brake, its like Let go anchor.
this is my baby for my new v10


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## lelebebbel (Jan 31, 2005)

gustavs are amazing. they are quiet. even if you've got a bent rotor and they rub, you won't hear it. they have the same power and modulation no matter if they are cold or if you've just descended 2000' on a steep switchback-trail.
mine don't drag either, all you have to do is make sure the adaptor is aligned properly when you install them.

they have been around for 10 years (there is an anniversary edition this year), and the only ones that had some issues were the 2003 (or 2002?) models which used a louise lever with a too small reservoir.


codes look promising, but i wouldn't buy them until they've been around for at least 2 or 3 years.


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## M1_joel (Mar 9, 2004)

im very happy with my gustavs. Magura offers two pad compunds. Performance (race) and endurance.

The race compound will only last one race weekend and they will be down to the metal but damn do thay bite. It's unfortunate that magura is not making these pads anymore. Magura is millitant about always using OEM magura genuine parts but i will be using an aftermarket metallic pad to replace their performance (race) brake pad once i cannot buy them anymore. The endurnace pads lasts along tome but it reeks of a mushy, modulation Hope brake.

I feel like i have the ultimate stopping power. I know i have a weight penalty but these brakes have ended arm pump and saved my hands from fatigue. i dont have to spend as much /handarm strength as with a lesser brake. I have the race pads, 231mm (9") rotor front and 210 rear with SS lines.










pads after one race weekend










.


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

Im ordering me some Codes!

May get some Gus's for the next DH build - these will be for my Bullit which is the everything bike moving toards 'pure freeride' - eg less smashing through rock gardens, more trails n stunts.

Heavy? Well - all in the eye of the beholder, but they are 60g less per wheel than Gustav, which is 1/4lb added up when using both...


so being 1/4lb lighter aint nothin to sneeze at ((Code 581g, Gus 640g)x2)

WEIGHT WEENINININI.. rofl..


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## Dusty Bottoms (Jan 14, 2004)

Some people are misconstruing the benefits of a powerful brake. A powerful brake means you can stop faster WITHOUT locking up. This means that you can brake later, and brake less. When you can brake less your brakes don't heat up as much and you get much less "fade" or "pump".

Regarding your choices, The Codes, Gustavs, or Saints all should work fine. The whole Saint line-up becomes attractive again since they will be offering the rear derailleur in top-normal(non rapid rise). However, each brake has their nuances, some of which you may not like. My View? Buy one, and if you don't like it, sell it and buy the next. Don't waste your time trying to fine tune something you don't like from the start.

I'll be bolting up some Codes later this week. The concept of a "no slop" lever has me really jacked.


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

Dusty Bottoms said:


> Some people are misconstruing the benefits of a powerful brake. A powerful brake means you can stop faster WITHOUT locking up. This means that you can brake later, and brake less. When you can brake less your brakes don't heat up as much and you get much less "fade" or "pump".


Explain...
Power means nothing but less lever pull, the friction point always remains the same.
I'm not argueing with you, I just want to understand this better.


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

now i hafe mounted the rear brake.


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## Dusty Bottoms (Jan 14, 2004)

fred.r said:


> Explain...
> Power means nothing but less lever pull, the friction point always remains the same.
> I'm not argueing with you, I just want to understand this better.


Agreed, the friction point is constant, but what happens to the rest of the system at said point is what establishes "power". Bigger rotors, more pistons, different material pads, etc are all an effort to keep the system cool and give deeper points of modulation before lock up.

You can pull a lever the same distance with the same contact point on an xc system and a dh system and get 2 very different stopping results.


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## mtb_biker (Jan 27, 2004)

Modulation of power is important just as much i think if you're trying to go fast. Scrubbing speed is important (if the lever bites too fast you slow down too much & too fast). You just gotta find a good balance.


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

mtb_biker said:


> Modulation of power is importnat just as much i think if you're trying to go fast. Scrubbing speed is important (if the lever bites too fast you slow down too much & too fast). You just goota find a balance I think.


Completely agree, too much power can actually hurt you because your breaks can be too touchy, modulation w/ the right power is key.


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

you can break later with the gustavM than any other disc buddy's


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

PCinSC said:


> I Except if I biff and break a caliper, it's cheaper to replace a Saint then it is a Gustav.


I dunno, that will be one h3ll of a biff to break a Gustav caliper.

I have been running the Gustavs for a few years now - by far the most powerful and upt there with the best modulating brake I have found. For my DH/FR rig I will run nothing else.

Only thing I have done recently to my Gustavs to make them better for MY liking is getting a set of the Magura shorty levers for them. This is a preference thing. Some like em others dont.


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

Dusty Bottoms said:


> Agreed, the friction point is constant, but what happens to the rest of the system at said point is what establishes "power". Bigger rotors, more pistons, different material pads, etc...give deeper points of modulation before lock up.


That what I was trying to allude to with my "'upper level' of braking" comment. Deeper points of modulation. That's what I want from my brakes. Modulation at high speed. Thanks for the clarification.


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

006_007 said:


> I dunno, that will be one h3ll of a biff to break a Gustav caliper.


That's good to know. It's just tough to think about how much will be spent on some of these parts...and then the horrible things that they're going to be put through by my crappy riding. 



006_007 said:


> Only thing I have done recently to my Gustavs to make them better for MY liking is getting a set of the Magura shorty levers for them. This is a preference thing. Some like em others dont.


Out of curiousity, which are the shorty levers? Are they actually called "shorty" or are you referring to the Louise or Martas?

Thanks.


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

Mini-update: I'm pretty much decided on the Gustavs - they're the best tool for the job and they're what I want. It doesn't make sense for me to get something other than what I want, as long as I'm willing to spend the coin. Not gonna pick them up for another month and a half or so - 2 more credit card cycles  ...bunch of components and wheels this month, brakes and shock rebuild/tune next month. :thumbsup: 

I'll be sure to post pics of me crashing when it's built up.


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## skate (Feb 19, 2004)

M1_joel said:


> Magura offers two pad compunds. Performance (race) and endurance.
> 
> I have the race pads, 231mm (9") rotor front and 210 rear with SS lines.
> 
> .


I think Magura is still selling the performance pads on thier website, and I've seen it on other websites as well.

Also what adapter are you using to run a 210 rotor in the rear. I thought the most you could run is a 190.

Do you have a link or something who sells that rear adapter?


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## M1_joel (Mar 9, 2004)

skate said:


> I think Magura is still selling the performance pads on thier website, and I've seen it on other websites as well.
> 
> Also what adapter are you using to run a 210 rotor in the rear. I thought the most you could run is a 190.
> 
> Do you have a link or something who sells that rear adapter?


The bmw racelink uses "front IS" mounts in their floating brake which allows me to run a 210. Yeah, Magura USA had several pairs in stock at the end of summer but said they probably would not be getting any more. sucks. I was giving a heads up that their race pad will no longer be an option in the future (as far as i know now).

Im sure Galfer or somebody else will have an aggressive compound brake pad.

Joel


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

this is the front baby whit 210mm disc!


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

PCinSC said:


> Out of curiousity, which are the shorty levers? Are they actually called "shorty" or are you referring to the Louise or Martas?
> 
> Thanks.


I always liked my original Gustavs, always thought the levers were a tad long, that was all. Then I happened across the fact that Magura makes a shorty set of levers for the Gustavs. They are @ 1/2" shorter I believe, and I just loved the way they positioned for 1 finger braking.

At the same time I know other people that do not like the shorter levers as they prefer to run their brakes inboard of the shifters. I will take a photo later tonight and post for comparison.


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

006_007 said:


> I always liked my original Gustavs, always thought the levers were a tad long, that was all. Then I happened across the fact that Magura makes a shorty set of levers for the Gustavs. They are @ 1/2" shorter I believe, and I just loved the way they positioned for 1 finger braking.
> 
> At the same time I know other people that do not like the shorter levers as they prefer to run their brakes inboard of the shifters. I will take a photo later tonight and post for comparison.


Cool, I'm curious to take a look at how you're running them. I definitely want a 1-finger set-up. Post up pics if you got 'em. Thanks.

Patrick


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## richslaney (Aug 13, 2006)

Just to update any potential buyer with real weights as I've just bought a set of Gustav M with 210 front Rotor and 190 Rear Rotor.

Lever, Hose, Caliper, Rear IS Caliper Holder and Pads + bolts = 440g
190mm Rotor + Bolts = 195g
210mm Rotor + Bolts = 230g

So, a 210mm front total = 680g and a 190mm Rear total = 640g

One point is that the build quality is solid and well built. The rotors seem thicker than usual and are nicely made and arrow true out of the box. The rotors also have a machined slightly rough braking surface for good bite fresh from the box.


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## M1_joel (Mar 9, 2004)

8664 said:


> this is the front baby whit 210mm disc!


Dude, you bike is killa! Soo sweet. congrats!

i kinda wish Magura would bring back some funky brake colors.


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## sparrow (Dec 30, 2003)

*Gustav +1*

We run Gustavs on our Ventana FS tandem, they work great! 340lb team, and we've done plenty of big mountain downhills, high speed to high tech riding, a tandem is demanding on its brakes. They are great! Bummer on the cost of adapters, went from a Marzocchi 66 with 74mm post mounts, to a RockShox Lyric with IS mounts and the adapter is a fair bit steep, but the system works well, and now I am ready for either type of fork.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

richslaney said:


> Just to update any potential buyer with real weights as I've just bought a set of Gustav M with 210 front Rotor and 190 Rear Rotor.
> 
> Lever, Hose, Caliper, Rear IS Caliper Holder and Pads + bolts = 440g
> 190mm Rotor + Bolts = 195g
> ...


Ugh, I didn't need to know... 

I'm running a 180mm Louise fr on the rear to save some weight, they seem to be a good pair (190 Gustav front).


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## knollybikes.com (Jan 8, 2004)

*Some other people probably means "me"*



006_007 said:


> I always liked my original Gustavs, always thought the levers were a tad long, that was all. Then I happened across the fact that Magura makes a shorty set of levers for the Gustavs. They are @ 1/2" shorter I believe, and I just loved the way they positioned for 1 finger braking.
> 
> At the same time I know other people that do not like the shorter levers as they prefer to run their brakes inboard of the shifters. I will take a photo later tonight and post for comparison.


PCinSC - glad you went with the Gustavs: seriously, these brakes are amazing. I've been running them for 8 seasons now and they are simply awesome. They are very very reliable (only two failures in all that time and they were both crash related) - the kicker is that both the power AND the modulation is fantastic. Even though the brakes are retardedly powerful, you can control your speed with the highest level of precision possible. They just work the same all the time - period.

And definitely, if you find yourself riding serious terrain, there are times and conditions where other brakes simply aren't powerful enough: rain, snow and mud can all create situations where "normal" brakes can't generate enough power to slow you down as much as you'd like. The Gustav is truly ONE FINGER. I have had to use 2 fingers on the front twice - ever - and those were pretty extreme situations (and i think one was when a fork puked oil all over my rotor 2 hours into a 6 hour heli drop).

Yes, they are pricey and expensive, but they are very, very, very good, highly reliable and Magura's customer service is excellent.

If you have any questions about your brakes once you've got them, let me know - i know these brakes pretty intimately.

Cheers!

Noel


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## cribe (Dec 17, 2005)

8664 said:


> you can break later with the gustavM than any other disc buddy's


But that doesn't mean you are going to be faster. Some people break far before the corner and ride the corner at higher speed, and some people break very late and ride the corner slower. At the end, I think both techniques are as fast, if you do it the right way.

I also want to remind that less powerfull brakes on a bike with the right tyres for the conditions is going to stop a lot faster than a bike with gustavs and wrong choise of tyres.

Late breaking with powerfull brakes might push your body forward and make your positioning on the bike bad for cornering and in technical places it could throw you over the bars.

My point here was that it's not allways (=almost never) the fastest way to break at the latest point you can (the latest point where you still will make the upcomeing corner).

This is nothing PCinSC should care about when buying brakes, but I just wanted to say that cos 8664 said that you can break later with the gustav that any other brake.

Ps. Sorry for my bad english.


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

cribe said:


> But that doesn't mean you are going to be faster. Some people break far before the corner and ride the corner at higher speed, and some people break very late and ride the corner slower. At the end, I think both techniques are as fast, if you do it the right way.
> 
> I also want to remind that less powerfull brakes on a bike with the right tyres for the conditions is going to stop a lot faster than a bike with gustavs and wrong choise of tyres.
> 
> ...


thats rigth!!
you brake latter, to take faster the corner..
in mid wet conditions i tray Maxxis HR 42a front and HR 60a rear
dry rocky conditions i tray Maxxis MF 40a front and HR 60a rear
and in dry conditions forest, field i tray Maxxis MF 40a front and HR 60a rear


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## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

I test rode Gustavs back to back with Juicies and Hope mono 6's. Hope's had plenty of modulation, the Gustavs plenty of power, and the Juicies seemed to have a good combination of both. I'm only 185 lbs w/o gear, so maybe another 50 lbs would have me looking at it differently...


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## sovietspyguy (Dec 4, 2005)

M1_joel said:


> im very happy with my gustavs. Magura offers two pad compunds. Performance (race) and endurance.
> Magura is millitant about always using OEM magura genuine parts but i will be using an aftermarket metallic pad to replace their performance (race) brake pad once i cannot buy them anymore.


I'm pretty sure they are militant about it because organic pads (Maguras are spec'd with organic pads if I'm not mistaken?) do a better job of isolating the caliper from the heat of braking. Metallic pads conduct heat much better and therefore the caliper and fluid are likely to heat up more. To my understanding that is why they warn you to use OEM magura parts. You might have problems with fluid boiling switching to metallic. Then again, you might not. Worth an experiment I suppose, just be careful.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

PCinSC said:


> Cool, I'm curious to take a look at how you're running them. I definitely want a 1-finger set-up. Post up pics if you got 'em. Thanks.
> 
> Patrick


Pic of the levers for comparison:


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## Largextracheese (Feb 4, 2004)

*Nice stuff there.*

The Gustavs rule. The adaptors are massively expensive though. On that note. I just sold my 66rc2x for a 888rc2x works fork and I don't understand why they went with post mount on the 66 and I.S. on the 888? Anyways now I have a post mount adaptor that I bought for 94 bucks that I can't use. If anyone wants to buy it let me know. It's for a 190mm rotor. I can also say that the way that the Gustav's are bled could be better. It does work but it could be better. Just kinda messy.


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

006_007 said:


> Pic of the levers for comparison:


Nice, thanks for posting. I actually like the look/length of those shorty levers. How is it running the shifters in-board of the brake levers?

It seems like you'd have to reach in to shift. Although I'm referencing my shifters (Shimano) and you've got Sram, so maybe the feel is totally different. I may try that, though.

Patrick


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

dbabuser said:


> I test rode Gustavs back to back with Juicies and Hope mono 6's. Hope's had plenty of modulation, the Gustavs plenty of power, and the Juicies seemed to have a good combination of both. I'm only 185 lbs w/o gear, so maybe another 50 lbs would have me looking at it differently...


I have ridden on other hydraulics (but not back to back): Juicy 7's (on several different bikes), Hayes Soles, Magura Louise FR's. I'll be honest, none of them blew me away in terms of power. Of course, most of those brakes were capable of doing the "slow-speed squeeze the front break and endo" test. But once on the trail at speed they were all two-fingers-necessary brakes. And I'll be honest, I don't even ride that fast. Plus, that's just on average singletrack trails, not even on true DH trails.

Of those brakes, the Maguras "felt" the best. To my uneducated fingers they felt the most responsive. My hope is that the Gustavs have a similar feel with more power. If so, I'll be a happy camper (braker?). 

I'm not really looking at the Hope mono6ti's because they are more expensive (_how is that even possible?_) and I've read more than a few posts from owners who stated they were disappointed. I've never read that about the Gustavs.

Thanks for your input.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

PCinSC said:


> Nice, thanks for posting. I actually like the look/length of those shorty levers. How is it running the shifters in-board of the brake levers?
> 
> It seems like you'd have to reach in to shift. Although I'm referencing my shifters (Shimano) and you've got Sram, so maybe the feel is totally different. I may try that, though.
> 
> Patrick


I dont find much of a reach at all hitting the levers w my thumb. I have found that if I run them on the other side my thumbs rest on the shifters, and I really like my thumbs to grip the bar in terror......


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Largextracheese said:


> I just sold my 66rc2x for a 888rc2x works fork and I don't understand why they went with post mount on the 66 and I.S. on the 888? .


Are you talking an 06 or 07 888? I just picked up a 07 888rc2xwc and it definately uses post mount. I know this because I had to purchase a new adaptor for my Gustavs that were mounted to my 04 888 that was I.S.

Agree that the adaptors are expensive, but the work put into them is pretty impressive....


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

i hafe a gustavM adapter for 210mm disc fox40rc2 forx for $69 plus shipping


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## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

*really?*



PCinSC said:


> But once on the trail at speed they were all two-fingers-necessary brakes. And I'll be honest, I don't even ride that fast. Plus, that's just on average singletrack trails, not even on true DH trails.


Was that with 8" rotors? If so, I'd say something was wrong w/ the brakes - the only brakes I've had to use more than 1 finger for was some Hayes mags, but they must've been contaminated - I think a good set of v-brakes would've worked better than those that day.
I know some people who swear by mono 6's, but I don't think for the price you get that much more brake. Aside from some bleeding issues, which were my fault for losing/ damaging o-rings on the brake lines, my Juicies have been all the brake I've needed for racing dh.


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

dbabuser said:


> Was that with 8" rotors?


Yeah, they were either 8" & 8" or 8" & 7".



dbabuser said:


> If so, I'd say something was wrong w/ the brakes


It's possible, these were all demo bikes. They didn't feel like they weren't working. Upon casual inspection, the Juicy's were obviously _way_ more powerful than the wimpy mechs that are on my HT. But once I got going on the trail I didn't feel like I had noticably more power, or superior modulation, or anything like that. I think it's likely that with more time on those brakes in more "braking critical" situations I'd notice a bigger difference.



dbabuser said:


> I know some people who swear by mono 6's, but I don't think for the price you get that much more brake.


Agreed.


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## balfabiker22 (Feb 26, 2006)

hope m-6 ti???


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

8664 said:


> thats rigth!!
> you brake latter, to take faster the corner..
> in mid wet conditions i tray Maxxis HR 42a front and HR 60a rear
> dry rocky conditions i tray Maxxis MF 40a front and HR 60a rear
> and in dry conditions forest, field i tray Maxxis MF 40a front and HR 60a rear


You use a high roller when its wet but a mofo when its dry?

Im very confused now...
:eekster:


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

@Huck Banzai

dude, M for minion F for front... Verstanden?


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

M1_joel said:


> Dude, you bike is killa! Soo sweet. congrats!
> 
> :thumbsup: !!!copy, dito!!:thumbsup:


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## A MAN CALLED HORSE (Nov 3, 2004)

dbabuser said:


> I test rode Gustavs back to back with Juicies and Hope mono 6's. Hope's had plenty of modulation, the Gustavs plenty of power, and the Juicies seemed to have a good combination of both. I'm only 185 lbs w/o gear, so maybe another 50 lbs would have me looking at it differently...


I've had most of the brakes that have been mentioned in this thread, a few of my thoughts-

Hopes, i found the 6 pots a bit inconsistant, one minute great and the next only average power and the (old) levers flexed.

Saints, very nice lever shape and a good feel to the brake overall, although can notice some lever flex and have to use quite a bit of force to get strong braking, which can be tiring.

Juicy 5, liked the lever, good power and feel, cheap build quality with rusting boltheads and hose crimps, noisy quite a bit of the time.

Louise FR (210/190), very well made, strong braking, quiet, some might say a bit ugly but theres nothing really to complain about- its a great brake.

Gustav, well most people have already said how good this brake is. It is a bit heavier than the others, but not by as much as some might think. It isn't until the heat is really on that the gustav separates itself from the pack. I used the 210/190 setup in the Alps, which can really test brakes and even compared them with the Juicys 203/203 on the same bike. The Juicys worked, but the Gustavs were in a different league. One finger braking which was totally consistant no matter how hot they were, never overheated or faded, as much power as you needed with no arm pump and hand ache, able to carry more speed and brake later because of total trust in them, very, very impressive. If you used the Juicys, Saints etc you would think they were good, which they are, but if you try the Gustavs in that environment then you would know how big the gap is.

I did a bit of weighing on an Ultimate Alpine scale, which i think measures to the nearest 10 grams.These are front brakes with normal hose the same length, with all bolts but without discs. Most big discs are 200 to 220 grams, the Hope floater is around 170.

Gustav with 210 adaptor 400
Juicy 5 with 203 adaptor 330
Saint with 203 adaptor 340
Louise FR with 210 + 30mm adaptor 310

Overall weight increase using the Gustavs F+R is at most 1/2 a pound over the others and thats nothing for the performance gain.


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## Imperial (Jun 9, 2006)

You guys need to test the Clarks Clim8 6 piston brakes out,there so damn nice,so much power but so much modulation too,dont make a noise in total wet muddy conditions and still work as good in the wet as they do in the dry.

Its Not all about the big names,ive tried Hope's,Hayes,Shimano,and after using the Clim8,i would pick them first time every time.

Minus the bling,you get loads of power,modulation,reliablity,very quite,dont rub and there very cheap,in the UK there 100 pounds for a pair on ebay,thats $200 for some brakes that work alot better then Hope M4's!!!

Clarks Clim8 6 Piston

* Powerful
* Heavy
* Very cheap
* Modulation
* Very Reliable
* Use Mineral Oil (non-caustic)
* Look ok


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

*Definitely getting Gustavs*

They're gonna go great with my new Magura FR Wheelset. DT FR hubs 36h laced to Mavic EX823's. Sweeeet! :thumbsup:


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

PCinSC said:


> They're gonna go great with my new [URL="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110068308570&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=110067324996]


very nice............congrats


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## Marshall Willanholly (Jan 27, 2004)

PCinSC said:


> They're gonna go great with my new Magura FR Wheelset. DT FR hubs 36h laced to Mavic EX823's. Sweeeet! :thumbsup:


You're going to dig those DT FR hubs. The most trouble-free hubs I've had (knock on wood).


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## A MAN CALLED HORSE (Nov 3, 2004)

Does anyone have a Gustav front adaptor in 190 IS or 210 post to sell or exchange for my 210 IS front, cheers.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

PCinSC said:


> They're gonna go great with my new Magura FR Wheelset. DT FR hubs 36h laced to Mavic EX823's. Sweeeet! :thumbsup:


Nice wheelset. I have been running those hubs laced to a set of Mavic 321 for a few seasons now. I really want to buy a pair of the Industry 9's, but I cant kill these yet.... :madman:


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

006_007 said:


> Nice wheelset. I have been running those hubs laced to a set of Mavic 321 for a few seasons now. I really want to buy a pair of the Industry 9's, but I cant kill these yet.... :madman:


That's good to hear. I'm building up this bike with a eye towards extended durability, so I'm hoping the parts I put on now are still working in a couple of years.

I hear ya' on the I9s, they sure are sweet looking and seem to perform great. But the price is way out of my league. And if you already have a wheelset that works perfectly fine...although that never stops the Homers from upgrading.


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## Ace1 (Jun 14, 2004)

cribe said:


> But that doesn't mean you are going to be faster. Some people break far before the corner and ride the corner at higher speed, and some people break very late and ride the corner slower. At the end, I think both techniques are as fast, if you do it the right way.


Regardless of how fast you ride corners, slowing down later will still make you faster...

I agree though that modulation is important.

I've always thought that Mono 6Tis were just about the most powerful brakes out there and Hope's claiming their new Moto FR brakes are even more powerful so that's another option.


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## Largextracheese (Feb 4, 2004)

*I do*

If you wanna swap rotors I've got one (two actually) that I can sell/trade.
190mm.


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## skate (Feb 19, 2004)

Largextracheese said:


> If you wanna swap rotors I've got one (two actually) that I can sell/trade.
> 190mm.


I'll buy a 190 rotor or two from you. Are they the rounded ones or the new edge'd one's.


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## Largextracheese (Feb 4, 2004)

*oops*

What I meant is that if he needs a 190 adaptor. I have a spare 190 I'd be willing to trade straight across .


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## skate (Feb 19, 2004)

Largextracheese said:


> What I meant is that if he needs a 190 adaptor. I have a spare 190 I'd be willing to trade straight across .


that's cool man.

Well. now that everyone knows what I or largextracheese wants. 
Does anyone have a 190mm gustav rotor they can part with.


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## richslaney (Aug 13, 2006)

*My Gustavs on my Freeride Bike.*

So, here is my finally completed Sata Cruz VP-Free in all her glory and she's an amazing ride. THe Gustav's are amazing !

*Brake Specs :-*
- 2007 Magura Gustav M 210mm Front Brake (8" Postmount Caliper Adaptor)
- 2007 Magura Gustav M 190mm Rear Brake (IS Adaptor)
- 2007 Goodridge Stainless Steel Braided Brake Hoses (Front and Rear)






















































































































Enjoy.

Rich.


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

fast brake's. i like!:thumbsup:


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## Ace1 (Jun 14, 2004)

Really sick bike.

My only dislike is the (pneumatic?) seat post... cummon, you knew this was coming!

That aside, every component on that thing would be on my short-list for the ultimate vp-free.


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## richslaney (Aug 13, 2006)

Ace1 said:


> Really sick bike.
> 
> My only dislike is the (pneumatic?) seat post... cummon, you knew this was coming!
> 
> That aside, every component on that thing would be on my short-list for the ultimate vp-free.


Thanks for the complements on the VP-Free, :thumbsup: but the post is not a pneumatic post but a GravityDropper.

If you don't know about the GravityDropper, then it's a post with 4" up, 3" up and completely down preset positions, and a Handlebar mounted remote switch. This allows me to pedal the bike seated normally, and then with a flick of the bar mounted switch drop the saddle for a technical section or decents and jumps / dropoffs, then with another flick of a switch the saddle is back in the normal position for pedalling. All without taking my hands away from the bars. 
It works brilliant on my Trial bike and also on my freeride bike, as you can pedal properly which is way better for your knee's and your quad muscles.

As far as I'm concerned the GravityDropper is one of my fav bike gadgets  which really helps your ride flow, and keeps you moving and your hands on the bars and your bum on the saddle when it needs to be. :thumbsup:

Thanks.
Rich


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## cmb2874 (Jul 5, 2006)

I have run both, Running the codes now, and all I can say is they are very similar if you run the old race pads on the Gustav's, but they last about 1 weekend of riding and I don't think they are even made any more.


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## Ace1 (Jun 14, 2004)

richslaney said:


> the post is not a pneumatic post but a GravityDropper.


OK, I gathered it's function but does it not use compressed air?


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## richslaney (Aug 13, 2006)

Ace1 said:


> OK, I gathered it's function but does it not use compressed air?


OK, but nope, no air involved at all.
It's just a powerful spring and a very clever magnetic pin mechanism operated by the bar mounted remote lever.

When you press the bar lever, a magnet carrier moves and it withdraws a pin from the inner shaft, then when you sit on the saddle the post will contract and the pin will re-engage in the new position as when you release the bar lever the magnet carrier moves backup and a reverse polarity magnet pushes the pin back in. To raise the saddle, just push the lever, slightly depress the saddle with your backside and up the post goes to the up positions (or one of several with a multi-position post).

It's all very simple and robust and very intuative to use. It requires no thought at all and you don't needs to release your grip from the bars or look away form the trial.

I love them, I think they are a brilliant invention and I really do believe that the enhance my rides as I know my saddle will always be at the optimum height with the flick of a switch.

My fav is when your riding some singletrack which suddenly drops down a steep or technical decent and then turns into a climb straightaway. So, i'm just riding along with my saddle fully up, crest the descent, push the lever, drop the saddle all the way down, bomb down the descent, push the lever, return saddle to full height and get on the gas to pedal up the climb. All seamless, no stopping to lower and raise saddle or descending knowing that my saddle could buck me off any second..... It's just right,:thumbsup:


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## nickgto (Dec 29, 2005)

*HOPE MONO 6 Ti*

"POWER IS NOTHING WITHOUT CONTROL!!!" and this brake system lives this creed. It provides me the modulation needed to tackle super technical, super steep lines. On long, and fast downhill runs, the DOT brake fluid will not boil as much as the mineral oil, by the way I use Motul's RBF 600 Dot 4 with 600 deg boiling point, so there is no lever pump. It may look all show, but the 2 piece rotors provide excellent heat management, as this is the same type of rotors used by sport bikes and race cars. The six pistons engages in a staged manner with the first smaller pair providing the initial bite followed by the second smaller pair; with the last big pair providing the power. The stainless steel lines that came with the set, are a big plus in terms of lever firmness. It might not have the immediate/grabby power as the Gustav, but it is still a single finger braking system. Owners who complain about these brakes might not have the patience to tune it. These are not an install and forget system.


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## Rover Nick (Jul 13, 2006)

nickgto said:


> Owners who complain about these brakes might not have the patience to tune it. These are not an install and forget system.


What has to be done to them moreso than other brakes?


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## richslaney (Aug 13, 2006)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"POWER IS NOTHING WITHOUT CONTROL!!!" and this brake system lives this creed. It provides me the modulation needed to tackle super technical, super steep lines. On long, and fast downhill runs, the DOT brake fluid will not boil as much as the mineral oil, by the way I use Motul's RBF 600 Dot 4 with 600 deg boiling point, so there is no lever pump. It may look all show, but the 2 piece rotors provide excellent heat management, as this is the same type of rotors used by sport bikes and race cars. The six pistons engages in a staged manner with the first smaller pair providing the initial bite followed by the second smaller pair; with the last big pair providing the power. The stainless steel lines that came with the set, are a big plus in terms of lever firmness. It might not have the immediate/grabby power as the Gustav, but it is still a single finger braking system. Owners who complain about these brakes might not have the patience to tune it. These are not an install and forget system.



I've used all sort of Hopes and whilst I love them (hell, i'm from England :thumbsup: ), I must say they have always been a pain and need constant attention. One day they are powerful and quiet and the next week and squeal like a stuffed pig ! 

I just had enough of contstant fettling and inconsistant performance. I would agree that the floating rotors are fantastic though and I love the pinging noises when they cool down.

As for DOT and Mineral Oil, I'd say that they are very similar except for one major point (other than Mineral being safer to handle). 
DOT brake fluid is Susceptible to absorbing moisture from air, so you have to be very careful during maintenance, and where, and how you bleed the brakes. Problem is that the DOT fluid can take on moisture from the air during bleeding or through Porous seals, then when the temperature of the oil hits 100 degrees, the water from the moisture boils, releasing gas an thus forming the air bubbles which cause that spongy brake feel. This is not a problem with Mineral Oil.

I was told recently by an LBS that they used to buy large containers of DOT fluid, but now they buy small containers which are opened, used that day and then discarded to reduce the potential for moisture absorbtion.

I now bleed the brakes in a more 'sealed' manner. I bought the Professional Magura bleed kit which features a special clamp to seal the open fluid reservoir on the lever, this then has a central hose which goes to the bleeding bottle. I then attach a large syringe of Fluid to the bleed nipple on the caliper and force all the fluid through the complete system until the fresh fluid is visible at the bleeding bottle, I also slowly squeeze and release the brake levers whilst re-filling the system. It's also good practice to also pull and push the syringe than simply push as the pumping action helps to dislodge trapped bubbles. I also tap the brake lines whilst forcing the fluid into the caliper and check for air bubbles. Once done, tighten the caliper bleed nipple, remove the magura bleed clamp from the lever reservoir, top up with fluid and replace the reservoir cap. All done, no bubbles and no worries with moisture absorbtion.

Oh, one other thing regarding Brakes and one other thing that swayed me to the Gustav's, check out the size of the braking pad contact surface.... Gustav's are huge compared to pretty much everything.

I think the biggest thing here is that all of the brakes mentioned are excellent and they are all only as good as the setup and maintenance of the system. 
Many people complain about brakes, but haven't bothered to have the frame / fork mounts faced, Haven't bothered to 'burn in' the discs and the pads properly, don't bleed them correctly, use old 'moisture locked' fluid, don't deglaze the pads, or clean the rotors properly, or even change warn pads.

I know that the one thing that makes the biggest difference for me, is that when I clean the bike, or often before my ride, I clean the rotors with methylated spirit (the purple stuff). This removes all contamination and leaves no residue. I was recommended this by one of the main guys at Hope and it's what they use. They even told me that most proper brake cleaning fluids are oil based !!!!! Not too bad for automative brakes, but not great for a bike that generate far less heat.

Regards,
Rich.

(Ex Hope lover, now a firm Gustav lover)


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

but the best is, the piston off gustav m are much longer the any others and with double seals!!.. becouse they are only two piston!!


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## richslaney (Aug 13, 2006)

8664 said:


> but the best is, the piston off gustav m are much longer the any others and with double seals!!.. becouse they are only two!!


Don't forget that the Gustav also has ceramic piston caps to reduce heat from the pads to the fluid !
And that the floating caliper design works even when the rotors warp or take a bash.

Oh, and the massive brake pad contact surface, and the huge fluid reservoir, and the nice safety feature on the brake levers which allows them to piot away from the bars (opposite action to applying the brake) which saves trapped hands in a crash, or the lever from snapping when getting snagged (as happened to my mates Hope Mono6ti levers).

I just wish they would do a nice floating 210mm and 190mm rotor. The current rotors are nice, well made and nicely finished (come with a nice machined braking surface), but not as Bling as the Hope Floaters.
:thumbsup:


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## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

nickgto said:


> "POWER IS NOTHING WITHOUT CONTROL!!!" and this brake system lives this creed. ... The six pistons engages in a staged manner with the first smaller pair providing the initial bite followed by the second smaller pair; with the last big pair providing the power.


Hope must have thought less pistons are better, because they introduced the moto brakes this year. From what I've heard, they are a big improvement over the mono 6's...


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Since the calipers float, it would not make any sense to use floating rotors. While they look cool, the main reason that floating rotors are used is because the inside material (the "hat") can be made of aluminum and the braking surface can be steel. This is good and bad, a solid steel rotor will actually transfer heat better than a 2 piece rotor. A floating rotor also has the ability to align itsself with the caliper, which is obviously not needed with the Gustavs. Overall, I think the Gustavs are a great idea. They would have to be too large and heavy if there were pistons on both sides of a caliper that size. The downside is expensive adapters and some maintnence to keep the sliding mechanism nice and smooth. It is kinda ironic though... for autos the caliper is fixed and the rotor floats for most racing applications, and GM (and others) has used floating calipers similar to the Gustavs on their trucks forever.


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## lebikerboy (Jan 19, 2005)

Have a look at these aftermarket Gustav levers...


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## richslaney (Aug 13, 2006)

lebikerboy said:


> Have a look at these aftermarket Gustav levers...


Nice eh ?
I've jot a set on order in Blue with a set of Blue Dangerboy Bar end caps. I'll update my pictures when I've fitted them for you all to see.

Cheers,
Rich.


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

lebikerboy said:


> Have a look at these aftermarket Gustav levers...


Don't post those ever again. I'm trying to convince myself that I'm not going to need aftermarket levers.


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## Redhit (Jan 24, 2004)

ill keep this short, both have excellent power and modulation. Only complaint is the Gustav levers feels like ass.... Ive seen some guys put a torch to the levers just to bend them a little for a better feel. Still felt like ass.....Why do i care so much about feel, cause after a whole day of braking, it makes a big difference. If money is no object get better levers.


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## 8664 (Oct 17, 2005)

richslaney said:


> Don't forget that the Gustav also has ceramic piston caps to reduce heat from the pads to the fluid !
> 
> :thumbsup:


NASA testet!! :thumbsup:


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