# How much did a better bike help you?



## TimberSky (Sep 6, 2010)

Here's the deal: my wife has decided to make mtn biking the main focus this summer so we plan on doing a lot of camping/riding trips. We have been riding in the mornings before work to build up her fitness but she has trouble keeping up, partly due to her current bike (late 90s-early 2000s Rockhopper with that yellow Manitou fork). I ride behind her on trails and can see where she struggles, especially on uphills and rough techinical sections. I know its more rider than bike, but I think getting her a better bike could make our rides more fun and comfortable for her. And hopefully make her a better, faster rider.

Right now my Rocky Mountain Element FS feels lighter than the small hardtail she is on. I dont know the weight of that Rockhopper vs newer bikes, but we found a 2008 Specialized Myka FSR Comp for a good price and I want to know if it is worth getting FS this early into her development (and yeah I know hardtails tend to make you learn more bike handling, line-reading, etc but she has shown good progress in this already). She is still in the beginning stages, but I don't want the bike to be holding her back from having more fun. All advice and opinions are appreciated, thanks


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## LyndaW (Jul 22, 2005)

Better bikes help a LOT. The Myka is still a low end bike that will be heavy. Look at the Era http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCProduct.jsp?spid=52794&scid=1000&scname=Mountain

That bike will make a difference.


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## lokisare (Mar 16, 2011)

A good bike will help a lot, and FS might give her all the confidence she needs on the rougher stuff. Weight makes a big difference for smaller and less powerful riders (ie. women). If you don't want to upgrade the full bike then at least look into getting a good lightweight wheelset and this rotational weight makes a big difference up hills.


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## LadyDi (Apr 17, 2005)

This may sound harsh, please don't take it the wrong way: if she is into mountain biking and riding is her main priority, her bike should be AT LEAST as light, nimble, & high quality as yours... if not better. There is NO reason for Beginners to learn on tanks (unless it's economic necessity). Does not necessarily need to be a women's specific design, a lot of us don't ride them (I don't). But fit is very important. Thank you for encouraging your wife to mountain bike!


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

A new bike is always nice, if the budget allows, but be careful not to focus too much on "keeping up", it takes the fun out of it. Let her progress at her own pace.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

I'm going to play devil's advocate, since I'm also a guy with a female partner that's new to the whole MTB thing, complete with fitness mismatch. Our riding basically works "best" if I just let her go 15~20 minutes ahead and let her "do her thing". Rather anti-social though. And would be useless on long rides/rides that are unfamiliar to her.

So what I would personally suggest, since you seem to be on the cusp of being convinced on buying a fairly "bling" bike for her (and helps with the fact you guys are already married! ), is to go the tandem route. You don't have to worry about who's riding the better bike (you're on the same one!). She's always _right behind you_! She'll get to build up fitness and watch how you handle terrain, which in turn increases her confidence to ride solo. Etc, etc, etc.

There's a tandem forum right here for more info and since I assume you live in the US, may be able to pick up a decent MTB tandem 2nd hand, though if you guys do splurge on a shiny new one, they won't depreciate as fast as solo bikes, should at some point in the future decide it's not your cup of tea and sell it...


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

*stupid quickreply double post* :madman:


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

TimberSky said:


> ...but we found a 2008 Specialized Myka FSR Comp for a good price and I want to know if it is worth getting FS this early into her development


Yes.

Forget this "development" garbage. Think "fun". Then you'll have it. If there is one thing I wish I could turn back the clock and do, it's to go back nine years and buy full-suspension right from the get go. And in general, I wish I had been more willing early on to spend more money on better & lighter-weight bikes.

I also made the mistake once of buying my wife a hardtail when I had a suspension bike. She tried riding a couple of times. She quit. That was the end of that.

When I take newbies riding these days, I make a point to hand them one of my best bikes. Took my son's friend out for the first time on Tuesday. Handed him an Enduro SL. He had a blast. He will be back for more.

Go for the fun factor. That's MHO.


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## annamagpie (Jun 5, 2009)

I don't really understand the question, I guess.
Of course get a better bike. Do you have a better bike? Did it help you? Well, it'll probably help her too.
Happy trails.


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

1) Spend as much as you can afford. Heavy bikes suck for any beginner.
2) Lay off the "advice" when riding (no matter how helpful you think you advice is).

I learned these lessons the hard way when my wife first showed an interest in riding.


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## miatagal96 (Jul 5, 2005)

She needs a better bike.

Go for fun! The more fun it is, the more she'll ride and the better she'll get. 

Last fall, I upgraded my bike from a 2002 Ellsworth Truth (4" travel x-c bike with great design, but outdated shock and the frame broke) to a 2011 Ibis Mojo SL (140mm/5.5" travel, DW link suspension, current technology shock & fork). I didn't give up a speck of efficiency, the new bike is 1 lb lighter, and it eats up rocks and technical downhills much more effectively than the 2002-vintage 4" bike. I feel more confident on the new bike and others have commented that my riding has improved. So, yes. It helped. The Ibis was also a better fit for the trails I was riding, as the Truth is an x-c race bike and the trails are pretty hairy.

Note that the Era and Epic are x-c races bike as well. They have much newer shocks than my 2011 Ellsworth. I have ridden both the Era and Epic (with riser bars, not the flat bars that come with them). I have a long torso so the Epic fits me better than the Era. Their ride is harsher than my Mojo, but they don't beat you up nearly as much as a hard-tail. I like a fairly upright riding position, so if I were to buy an Era or Epic, I'd put riser bars on them. If you want to smooth out a lot of roots so you can stay seated and just pedal, or if you anticipate that she'll ultimately ride fairly technical terrain, I'd consider a 120mm travel bike, or even a 140mm travel bike (as long as the 140mm had great pedalling efficiency). If you are rich and want to get her the best, look at a Turner Flux with a 120mm fork....gorgeous and a fabulous performer. If you are considering 140mm, check out the Ibis Mojo SL. There are lots of other worthy bikes, but these bikes were my top 2 picks.


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## corleone (Mar 19, 2006)

If you have the cash, go for it. The "better bike skills on a HT" argument is way overblown unless you plan on throwing her back on an HT after the FS ride lol. I would also try and figure out what type of bike she thinks would benefit her. After lots of bikes and different ways of questioning, I found the best way to help my wife was with either/or questions...is it harder going up or going down? Would you rather have a bike that climbs easier, or a bike that goes over stuff better. Do you have more trouble turning or holding a line...questions like that really allowed me to narrow down to a bike that she now loves.

That FSR is going to make going over the gnarly stuff easier because it is FS and has a slacker HTA. However, I doubt you are going to be saving a serious amount of weight over the HT, and the HTA will make going up harder.


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## miss rides a lot (Jul 23, 2008)

LadyDi said:


> This may sound harsh, please don't take it the wrong way: if she is into mountain biking and riding is her main priority, her bike should be AT LEAST as light, nimble, & high quality as yours... if not better. There is NO reason for Beginners to learn on tanks (unless it's economic necessity). Does not necessarily need to be a women's specific design, a lot of us don't ride them (I don't). But fit is very important. Thank you for encouraging your wife to mountain bike!


Gotta agree here. When my husband and I first bought bikes in late 2005 we definitely bought out of our skill range, and I think bought out of our pocket book range as well  However, we wanted no excuse as to why we had the bikes. So, we didn't want to 3 months later have them sitting in the garage collecting dust. We knew when we bought them that they were expensive and were going to be ridden!

As we progressed we bought some different components to make them lighter here and there, and that is generally where the biggest benefit will be for climbing - your wife likely weighs less than you do, and most likely her bike weighs more. Of course she is going to climb slower than you, even if she doesn't have the bike fitness you do.

For lighter riders (females and even kids) having a lighter bike makes a huge difference for riding overall. Newer suspension and drivetrain will also help her as far as feeling more comfortable on rougher terrain and having less drag from older parts that likely are a bit heavier than current components.

It's awesome you guys want to spend the summer riding, have a blast!


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## TimberSky (Sep 6, 2010)

Awesome feedback everyone, all the opinions are appreciated. I know it sounded like a dumb question but I wanted to get the women's point of view (as many guys I know would be saying its not the bike its the rider, FS makes it too easy, etc.). 

Also, my wife hates spending money and would just tough it out on her old bike rather than ask for something better. Before getting my current FS, I rode a mid-90s hardtail for more than 10 years and still had a lot of fun, so I know the bike isn't everything. But it looks like the consensus is to just go and upgrade her current ride ASAP


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## turtol (Apr 20, 2011)

Sounds like you're already sold on getting a new bike but my $.02. I started riding about 1.5 years ago and went from an old, cheap FS (heavy) bike (because I didn't want to spend a lot of money on something I wasn't sure I was going to like) and progressively blinged it up with light components. Then went full out and got a light bike with all the best components (I could afford). Lost a full 5lbs from my old bike and I can definitely climb a LOT better which imho helps encourage getting fit. Now I'm looking for a new frame again that fits better (I'm really short). I found that with each upgrade I could take my skills to the next level and it was that much more fun. I definitely wished I had started with a nicer bike to begin with. However, having said that, it's hard to figure what bike fits you best until you really try out a bunch of them, esp to a newbie. I recommend renting diff bikes for a day to get the feel of FS, how much travel, how light, etc...


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

I upgraded bikes as my skills improved. As my skills improved I was able to ride more difficult technical. In 4 years since I took up MTB, I have owned 3 bikes. I currently have 2 bikes: a FS all mountain and a woman's specific DH. Both complement my riding style and interests.


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## turtol (Apr 20, 2011)

cyclelicious I think you just convinced me I need two bikes!


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

turtol said:


> cyclelicious I think you just convinced me I need two bikes!


variety is the spice of life!


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## zed42 (Oct 22, 2008)

I'm going to dissent slightly and say that my riding improved the most when I went from a $3000 Specialized Epic to an $800 Kona Unit, and I think you'd be pretty hard-pressed to argue that was a better bike. For me the change to 29er wheels was enough to overcome any disadvantage from losing suspension. 
It's probably worth noting though that the Kona wasn't any heavier than the Epic, and I wasn't a beginner rider getting my first upgrade.

So I guess my point is that it's probably better to focus on getting a bike that suits your wife, rather than one that's just "better". But I'm sure you already knew that.

As for hardtails being better for learning skills, I'd have to say yes they are. Even if you only plan on riding a full-suspension bike. The better line is still more efficient on the full-suspension bike, it's just that you don't get the feedback to make you realise you're taking a bad line. But if riding a hardtail bike means you're not going to ride at all, then obviously it's a moot point.


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## bcaronongan (Nov 8, 2006)

got the wife a fs in 2007 and have slowly upgraded it. she is now a stronger rider and having lots more fun. she came from a hardtail with low quality components. 

in the next year or two, we will probably think about upgrading the frame and transferring the components. 

she weighs 110 lbs and her bike is 25 lbs. the ratio sucks for her, but she is getting stronger and hopefully, we can get her bike weight down a little more with a new frame.

you gotta keep it fun. how ever you do it...


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## jaclynj (Jun 11, 2007)

I'm going to flip flop on this one. A FS makes "learning" a lot more fun...more fun means more riding and getting better. I learned on a hard tail and then bought a FS and spent much more time on my bike and got the confidence to try things that I wouldn't on my HT.

That being said, I recently replaced my all-mountain bike with a hard tail and have noticed that my riding has gotten way better because I've got to pay more attention and pick my lines better. I've noticed that I'm faster on my DH bike because I know if I can clear it on my HT then doing it with 7" and 6" of travel will be easy!!!

Buy her a new bike!


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

jaclynj said:


> I'm going to flip flop on this one. A FS makes "learning" a lot more fun...more fun means more riding and getting better. I learned on a hard tail and then bought a FS and spent much more time on my bike and got the confidence to try things that I wouldn't on my HT.
> 
> That being said, I recently replaced my all-mountain bike with a hard tail and have noticed that my riding has gotten way better because I've got to pay more attention and pick my lines better. I've noticed that I'm faster on my DH bike because I know if I can clear it on my HT then doing it with 7" and 6" of travel will be easy!!!
> 
> Buy her a new bike!


I agree here. I started on FS bikes for years. And then I bought a rigid singlespeed, and I think that helped my skills a lot too, and helped me with body movement and weighting and unweighting, etc. So sure, you could say, well, if I started on that bike, I would have improved faster. OR, I woulldn't have liked it at all, wouldn't have kept riding, and that would have been the end of it. Mind you, when I got it, the rigid bike was an addition to my quiver of a trail bike and a DH bike, so I could ride it on trails where it seemed fun, and I love it on the right trail. As my only bike? No way.

So I agree - find the appropriate bike that will be the most fun for her. This depends on where she rides, who she rides with, what her personal goals are, what fits her best.... And that will help her riding a lot.


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## turtol (Apr 20, 2011)

connie said:


> I agree here. I started on FS bikes for years. And then I bought a rigid singlespeed, and I think that helped my skills a lot too, and helped me with body movement and weighting and unweighting, etc. So sure, you could say, well, if I started on that bike, I would have improved faster. OR, I woulldn't have liked it at all, wouldn't have kept riding, and that would have been the end of it. Mind you, when I got it, the rigid bike was an addition to my quiver of a trail bike and a DH bike, so I could ride it on trails where it seemed fun, and I love it on the right trail. As my only bike? No way.
> 
> So I agree - find the appropriate bike that will be the most fun for her. This depends on where she rides, who she rides with, what her personal goals are, what fits her best.... And that will help her riding a lot.


:thumbsup: This is all for fun right? Unless you intend on training for pro racing... I only have one bike right now and if it was a hard tail, I would not enjoy my rides as much. Not to mention the additional injuries I would get from a bike that's not as forgiving on the rougher trails. :eekster:


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## miss rides a lot (Jul 23, 2008)

turtol said:


> :thumbsup: This is all for fun right? Unless you intend on training for pro racing... I only have one bike right now and if it was a hard tail, I would not enjoy my rides as much. Not to mention the additional injuries I would get from a bike that's not as forgiving on the rougher trails. :eekster:


As someone that now trains for Pro racing... Trust me when I say as a 25 year old non-athlete getting my first bike since childhood, I never thought I'd be training for pro racing :thumbsup:

It's still all for fun. It's just a little more serious now 

And, I still like the best bike that I can afford to ride


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## mumbles (Jul 22, 2006)

Lighter makes a huge difference when you are currently riding a 30lb bike. I prefer my hardtail to my full suspension and I love my 29er even though it is a 29.6lb beast. I went to a specialized demo and got to ride a stumpjumper on the trail and was amazed at how much difference 3lbs lighter made.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Some people ride rigid singlespeeds for fun. Bikes dont make you a better rider. Riding more makes you a better rider. If shes struggling, she'll struggle on the new bike too, in the exact same spots.

Most people go from cheap bikes with horrible tires, to more expensive bikes with good tires.. the key point being _good tires_! They kinda overestimate where the huge improvement came from. Everyone who rides dirt should be on a half way decent tire.. that might be a good, cheap investment. If she gets a new bike anyway, an extra set of tires is always good to have.

There will be a point, and your wife will know when that point is, that the bike really is holding her back.. like when shes flying downhill and riding the brakes more than she'd like because shes at the limit of her suspension capability. Lots of riders are never interested in hitting this point and are quite happy on their old bikes, for miles and miles.

New bikes are fun for some people, but they wont make anyone a better rider. I think as guys, a lot of us get the "hey honey you need a new x-part!" syndrome, despite the significant other not needing, or even wanting it. Ive upgraded my girlfriends bike more than a few times until I really caught on that she didnt care, and would happily ride anything (all though her bike is pretty nice). Theres a lot of women on here, the fact that you're posting this and not her says something


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

I've posted this story before, but it's worth repeating. I used to bike all the time at a park in norcal (annadel) that I just LOVED. Loved all the trails, learned how to bike in that park. One day after I moved away I travelled up that way and rented a bike one day to go ride there. I knew it wouldn't be a great bike, but I didn't care, I just wanted to go ride in the park on the trails I loved so well. Well, to make a long story short, it was one of my worst rides ever. The bike handled horribly, I had no control, it was heavy and the steering was off and the list goes on. I was walking trail features that I had never even noticed before simply because the bike was so bad I was afraid I'd crash. I'm pretty sure I cried too. Anyway, I just remember thinking if that had been my first ride /bike, I would never had pursued mountain biking, it was too hard/frightening on that POS.

So, yes, the bike can relaly make a difference.


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## Bonkbonk (Apr 20, 2008)

The better bike could make her ride a lot more fun. 

If I had stayed on my first hardtail and not gone with the FS after the first year, I never would have liked the rocks. Now I love the rocks and I have enough strength and skills to intentionally work on my skill development...

Find somewhere to Demo, try hardtails, 29ers, FS, etc.... Then let HER TELL YOU what she wants.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

One Pivot said:


> There will be a point, and your wife will know when that point is, that the bike really is holding her back.. like when shes flying downhill and riding the brakes more than she'd like because shes at the limit of her suspension capability. Lots of riders are never interested in hitting this point and are quite happy on their old bikes, for miles and miles.


I've got to disagree with this.

Yes - some people like to blame their gear for everything, so it is second nature to upgrade (whether it's time to or not). But in my experience, lots of women do the opposite. They blame themselves for everything, even to the point of needing other people to point out blown shocks, grossly over or underinflated tires, seriously rubbing brakes, etc. And that's often even women who have been riding (or racing) for a long time (don't ask me how I know... ).

Combine that with a beginner not having tried a better bike (so they don't even know what they're missing), and when are those type of people ever going to think it's the bike holding them back?

I've been out with women on their very first ride on a freeride/DH bike - the ride where they can't stop giggling or raving about what an amazing difference it is to have more powerful brakes and more travel and all of that because they never knew it would be that different. And how they just rode down something they never would have considered riding before because they suddenly felt like they had so much more control of the bike.

Which is my very point. You said that she'll know when "shes flying downhill and riding the brakes more than she'd like because shes at the limit of her suspension capability" - but I think that's a leap of logic. She'll know when she's flying downhill and is scared because the bike is hard to control. But when that happens, the conclusion that many women reach is not "This would be easier on a better bike.", but unfortunately "Riding downhill is scary and I'm not good at it."

Quite clearly, there is skill involved too, but it's a combination of the two. My point is just that you shouldn't assume that a beginner knows what an upgraded bike will do for them (or even knows what types of bikes or upgrades are available.) So therefore they aren't going to intuitively know when it's time to upgrade.


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

connie said:


> the conclusion that many women reach is not "This would be easier on a better bike.", but unfortunately "Riding downhill is scary and I'm not good at it."


Exactly! I see this all the time.


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## Lucy Juice (Dec 29, 2010)

antonio said:


> 1) Spend as much as you can afford. Heavy bikes suck for any beginner.
> 2) Lay off the "advice" when riding (no matter how helpful you think you advice is).
> 
> I learned these lessons the hard way when my wife first showed an interest in riding.





annamagpie said:


> I don't really understand the question, I guess.
> Of course get a better bike. Do you have a better bike? Did it help you? Well, it'll probably help her too.
> Happy trails.





connie said:


> I agree here. I started on FS bikes for years. And then I bought a rigid singlespeed, and I think that helped my skills a lot too, and helped me with body movement and weighting and unweighting, etc. So sure, you could say, well, if I started on that bike, I would have improved faster. OR, I woulldn't have liked it at all, wouldn't have kept riding, and that would have been the end of it. Mind you, when I got it, the rigid bike was an addition to my quiver of a trail bike and a DH bike, so I could ride it on trails where it seemed fun, and I love it on the right trail. As my only bike? No way.
> 
> So I agree - find the appropriate bike that will be the most fun for her. This depends on where she rides, who she rides with, what her personal goals are, what fits her best.... And that will help her riding a lot.


This, this, and this.

I can't emphasize enough the point that it's super frustrating to be the new chick and have your significant other shouting instructions at you while you're trying to ride. I know that's slightly off topic and not what you asked, but yeah.


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## crimecrusher (Feb 27, 2009)

In 2005 My wife and I both purchased Rockhoppers and in 2008 I upgraded to a FS stumpjumper comp...one week later I _had_ to get her the same bike. It made a big difference in both our riding. Last year we started racing and I got an S-Works FS Stumpjumper and it made a big difference in my riding almost over night. As you can guess with in a month she now rides an S-Works FS Safire. The S-Works Safire is one of the best/most expensive WSD bikes you can buy. She calls her S-Works the magic bike and she is improving almost every week.

She is now on a bike every day and finished on the podium in all but one of her last 5 races. She is training for a 24hr solo in October and wants to make a run at the state championship xc racing series next year. Getting her the best bike we could has helped her confidence and riding.


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## Rocket Girl (Mar 10, 2011)

connie said:


> But in my experience, lots of women do the opposite. They blame themselves for everything, even to the point of needing other people to point out blown shocks, grossly over or underinflated tires, seriously rubbing brakes, etc. And that's often even women who have been riding (or racing) for a long time (don't ask me how I know... ).
> 
> ...
> 
> She'll know when she's flying downhill and is scared because the bike is hard to control. But when that happens, the conclusion that many women reach is not "This would be easier on a better bike.", but unfortunately "Riding downhill is scary and I'm not good at it."


Oh my, Connie. You just described ME! :blush: I vow to remember this, and be less hard on myself. Thank you!

For what it's worth, going from and old POS HT to a good entry-level FS bike helped me immensely. I resisted my husband getting it for a really long time because I didn't feel like I deserved it. I wasn't a good rider, although I loved it, and I felt like I needed to earn a good quality bike. It wasn't until afterwards that I started to believe him when he said I'd get better with a better bike. Man, you just can't tell me anything!


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## Nerdgirl (Mar 13, 2007)

New bike!!!

I had to be really pushed to upgrade my bike, and it made me go from preferring road riding back to loving mountain biking. Having said that, in my case, "better" wasn't initially more expensive; it had to do with proper fit and altered geometry. I want from a 10 year old $1500 Trek that was too big, with old-school "racy" geometry to a $300 KHS Solo One that fit like a glove (anniversary gift from my guy, because I resisted upgrades so much). LOVED it. Then, it took a test ride on a 29er SS (a Misfit diSSent) to convince me to upgrade further - again, a totally worthwhile investment that increased my love of riding AND my speed and skill.


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## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

connie said:


> I've got to disagree with this.
> 
> Yes - some people like to blame their gear for everything, so it is second nature to upgrade (whether it's time to or not). But in my experience, lots of women do the opposite. They blame themselves for everything, even to the point of needing other people to point out blown shocks, grossly over or underinflated tires, seriously rubbing brakes, etc. And that's often even women who have been riding (or racing) for a long time (don't ask me how I know... ).
> 
> ...


Nicely written.

I can't count the number of times I have pointed out bald tires ("my husband says these are good!"), terrifying suspension set ups, or brakes dialed in perfectly for giant hands as potential reasons for poor skills progression.

One of my favorite afternoon activities is to sit and people watch from the fins above Slickrock - it is a fascinating cross section of the bike community. One of the not so fun things is the sheer number of dudes rolling around on bikes worth 5 times the value of their SO's bike - it is no wonder we see so many women exiting the trail, dragging their POS rides like bunny blankets while giving the accompanying guy the silent treatment.


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## ibikergal (Sep 4, 2006)

turtol said:


> cyclelicious I think you just convinced me I need two bikes!


Just two???? What about the other types of riding, smooth dirt (hard tail), technical dirt (full suspension), long road ride, commute, go to the store bike and of course a tandem for togetherness!! :thumbsup:


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## Duchowski (Jun 4, 2011)

I am also one of those who is suspicious of upgrading instead of biking more often to improve skills. I find this sport can be so technical, that sometimes its hard to tell what's an obsession with having nice things and what's actually a good investment... this has unfortunately kept me weary of fulling learning the pros and cons of the different sort of products out there because I tend to feel like I go into 'yuppie' mode every time I step into a some of the specialized bike shops we have around here, which turns me off completely. That being said, I use a very heavy mountain bike that would be a lot better for me if it was lighter, I'm a lady to, but tend to throw myself into serious cardio situations with hills and stairs and distances that could have impacted my health (lolz I need to get a possible hernia checked out from daily mountain biking). I am worried that my bad impression of 'the scene' may have caused serious health problems, don't let this happen to you guys lolz


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

I think it's like to keep your sanity you need to just give yourself permission to buy what seems right for you at the moment and shrug off any guilt or fear of being judged for your purchasing decisions. I mean - do I "deserve" my fancy top end bike? Probably not, but I love it and enjoy every minute riding it, so I'm not going to worry about that. And, to be honest - there WILL be some judgemental moron out on a trail somewhere picking apart your riding and your bike. I'd be lying if I told you there won't ever be. But the important thing is that other people's opinions of you and your bike are COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. There will be no skills test that you need to pass to deserve a certain bike. And if you want to work on your bike skills, you can work on skills on an entry level bike or a top of the line race bike and your dedication to work on those riding skills is going to pay off more than the bike or just the time in the saddle. (You can practice bad habits all you want and they won't magically turn into good ones until you figure out how to fix them.)

But as mentioned, if you're on a really heavy bike, or a bike not suited to the type of riding you want to do, or a bike that's not functioning properly because it's an old piece of crap, that will certainly hold you back (if not cause injuries!). Sure, you can "just" become some kind of climbing machine who hammers up mountains on a 35lb bike, or a maniac who rips techy downhills on an old hardtail. I tried riding everything on a big heavy bike, and decided that I sucked at climbing and hated it. And then one day I got a lightweight bike and voila, suddenly I had a lot more fun climbing and started really enjoying a whole new genre of trails. Go figure!

I would also say that if a shop makes you feel intimidated or gives off an obnoxious vibe you can't stand - find another one. There are good shops out there. Don't let a bad one put you off.


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## ettore (Nov 13, 2004)

Got my GF from her 1998 Schwinn Mesa HT onto my 2002 Enduro (far from awesome, or a great pedaller, not even light really, or anything other than smooth ... she called it the barcolounger) and she went from being mediocre to decent in one ride. She made it up steeper climbs, downhills were obviously more controlled and logically navigated, and she was considerably faster on the singletrack ... same tires, much less efficient pedaller, heavier too. Those were MY observations, from just watching. From HER point of view, it was night and day: fork worked better (that was obvious) but she said she felt more confident putting down power and wasn't as afraid to use a lot of brake. Basically, she felt much more like the bike was doing what she asked it to do when she asked it to do it. I gave her that bike, but it was subsequently stolen ... so back to the Schwinn. I recently bought a ~2000 Giant NRS for $25 ... getting on that, same thing as with the Enduro ... only thing is that it's equipped with near the same components as her Schwinn (Jett or Judy fork, can't rmemeber, XT / Deore stuff, etc). However, the full suspension seems to be great for her riding style, and she has gone from decent to exceptional now.

I can give another example of the same GF taking out a rental full-on DH rig up on Whistler; a relatively poor showing all around on her part. 3 days of that bike, she was ready to give up. I let her try my much-too-big but with good equipment SX Trail (setup for 175lb me, not 125lb her) while I rode her rental ... jesus. She was FLYING, and I could barely keep up on that piece of trash. Have taken her out a few times on a friend's DH bike and she's pretty good on that thing too, it's some CUBE XC turned AM rig ... the bike makes a big difference for some people. I can't attribute it to how expensive or heavy it is, since the DH rig my GF rented should have been way better than my bike for DH, but that wasn't it. Maybe it's a mental thing, that having a better bike means you can push it harder ... I dunno.


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## joedirt24 (Jan 30, 2007)

Most of the women I see out on the trails have a better ride then me. If my wife wanted to ride I would build her a better bike then mine. I don't want a poor shifting, bad braking heavy bike for her to go out and have a good time on. That would spell bad day for me.


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## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

I think it's more feel, confidence, and trust than anything else, these things usually correlate with a better bike but not always. To give an example, my GF really likes my old XC race bike and rides best on it even though it's not my best bike, my fun bike has more & better suspension and more stable forgiving handling on rough terrain. The fit & geometry is fairly close between the two bikes as is the weight, though the fun bike has more XTR goodies. According to her, she just doesn't feel as connected on the fun bike and as a result she doesn't really trust enough to cut loose, have fun, and push the limits. She's always more tentative on my fun bike even though she knows what it can do because she sees me doing crazy stuff on it all the time, but it just doesn't work for her.

I think the thing to do would be to have your wife try out several bikes and see what she feels best on. If she feels good and trusts the bike she'll ride better, even if it's not the best bike going by specs.


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## tahic (Jul 21, 2008)

My OH does not ride but I am a woman that loves to ride and I buy my own bikes that are far more capable than I will ever be ..it doesn't matter I ride alot and for fun, fitness and to get to far away spots I wouldn't otherwise go. This thought that you have to deserve a good bike is bollocks. Buy what you like and what will make you feel good when riding, for me this a lightish FS bike with components that last and are efficient. If I spend a chunk of my money on it then I am more likely to ride it and improve and feel good doing it. Where I live (New Zealand) everywhere I go I see the female riding his "hand me down" so she isn't as fast or as strong or as confident..so what she is out there doing it, buy her the best!!


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## chong (Mar 4, 2011)

My wife is going to try yet another bike today. This one will be the most expensive one she's ridden to date. If she likes it and it is available in her size then she's going to get it. Skill wise she may not be the greatest, but I think a new bike will help her immensely. She's progressed a lot in the past 4 seasons. She started off with a fully rigid hand me down Trek -> Trek 4500 WSD (with a Dart3 fork that she can't compress) -> FS bike (tonight is the Pivot Mach4). Her first lap around one of the local trails on a FS bike was like night and day. If she ends up with the Pivot she'll have the most expensive bike in the house, and I'm more than ok with that since it means she won't be sending me off to ride alone nearly as much!


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## snowgypsy (Jun 5, 2011)

A good bike inspires confidence and fun at the same time. I can't tell you how much difference an upgrade makes. I'm happy that I learned a few skills while riding a twenty year old trek I found on craigslist for $50. Then the hubby purchased a scott contessa for me...and within days I was a different rider. I was trying things I never would have dared before, and rather than barely getting by, I was pushing myself harder, taking chances and actively learning more than I thought possible. Not only that, but I was having fun while learning. My bike and I were working together and I was learning to trust it and myself. It'll be the best thing either of you do. My hubby is happy to have a companion always ready to hit the trail


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

A lot of the input on this thread is about buying a bike that is right for her or what she likes. Other input describes riding a variety of bikes to help to develop skills. Further input dispenses the latest Kool-Aid;SS, 29 or.... you know the line.

Fundamentally I believe the bicycle should not get in the way of riding. It doesn't matter how expensive the bike it has to work well. If it is balky, cumbersome, or unreliable, the feedback the rider gets his confused with their forming skills. It's hard to learn in that circumstance.

"Buying the right bike," is best done when based upon experience. That makes a bike for a new rider a real challenge; People overthink this and failed to see that the first bike is nearly a throwaway as it acts as a platform from which you make the move to the next bike. More experienced riders will have a better idea about what they need, what they like, and what they will put up with.

There is a curiosity here that there are a number of wonderful stories which talk about having ridden a certain bike or type of bike. Then they discover upon riding another sort of bike altogether that this was what they really needed. The prevailing attitude is that they had been doing it wrong all that time on this other bike. I tend to look at it a bit differently. I think about all the experience on the early bike really making it possible to appreciate the next kind of bike.

One of the difficulties in developing riders is that you cannot teach experience. You can teach _from_ experience, but experience itself is simply time in the pedals. That said, simple bikes that work well are best. Further, and this is very unpopular, developing riders on dirt, where issues of stamina and technique have seen little development, confounds cycling altogether. Mountain biking is an advanced discipline. As such, starting an advanced level when you're not ready for it is begging for problems. Especially athletic riders or those with some cycling skills can be an exception.

Snowgypsy makes a case beautifully. A particular bike to break the ice and else in skill and stamina. The next bike was heaven. Would it have been the same if she had started on the second bike? I doubt it.


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## snowgypsy (Jun 5, 2011)

Berkeley Mike said:


> A lot of the input on this thread is about buying a bike that is right for her or what she likes. Other input describes riding a variety of bikes to help to develop skills. Further input dispenses the latest Kool-Aid;SS, 29 or.... you know the line.
> 
> Fundamentally I believe the bicycle should not get in the way of riding. It doesn't matter how expensive the bike it has to work well. If it is balky, cumbersome, or unreliable, the feedback the rider gets his confused with their forming skills. It's hard to learn in that circumstance.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more. My first bike made me the rider that I am. Because my beautiful trek didn't have many bells, whistles, shocks or good brakes for that matter, I had to be a better rider. I had to learn how to balance, turn, brake efficiently, and control her because, well, she wasn't going to just roll over anything on her own. I didn't see the fruits of that labor until I upgraded and saw just how much that learning curve helped me know what to do and how to do it. If I would have started on a FS with disc brakes, I hate to say it, but I would have picked up some bad habits such as relying more on my bike rather than on myself and not building the fundamentals necessary to move from one level to the other. Your first bike is and always will be a treasure. Love it, ride it, and then, when its time and you know what you want, upgrade and see what happens. But keep it in a special place for when you need a little reminder


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Berkeley Mike said:


> ...I tend to look at it a bit differently. I think about all the experience on the early bike really making it possible to appreciate the next kind of bike.


I hear what you're saying, but based on the experiences of a number of female riders that I know well, I agree more with the majority of people posting on this thread. Riding a heavy, ill-functioning bike can make for horrible initial experiences, and make it so that there never is a "next kind of bike" for many potential female (and male) mtb'ers, who instead decide to quit.

So, if your goal is to enjoy, and possibly get hooked on, mountain biking, start with the best bike you can. But if your goal is to better appreciate your next bike, then, um, reevaluate your goal.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

snowgypsy said:


> Couldn't agree more. My first bike made me the rider that I am. Because my beautiful trek didn't have many bells, whistles, shocks or good brakes for that matter, I had to be a better rider. I had to learn how to balance, turn, brake efficiently, and control her because, well, she wasn't going to just roll over anything on her own. I didn't see the fruits of that labor until I upgraded and saw just how much that learning curve helped me know what to do and how to do it. If I would have started on a FS with disc brakes, I hate to say it, but I would have picked up some bad habits such as relying more on my bike rather than on myself and not building the fundamentals necessary to move from one level to the other. Your first bike is and always will be a treasure. Love it, ride it, and then, when its time and you know what you want, upgrade and see what happens. But keep it in a special place for when you need a little reminder


I hear this story repeatedly, and I DO recognize that there is something to it, but... (heh, I guess this would be part of the reason I'm a mountain bike instructor in my spare time...) This is only true if you're going the self-taught route. And even then, it depends on how observant you are with your trial and error, etc. Just going out and putting in miles and figuring you'll pick up any sport as you go along is a tough path and some people never progress very far on their own. (I'm not saying they aren't enjoying their riding, but it takes more than miles to really improve your skills.) And even going out and trying to follow people who are faster than you is a gamble - some people get relatively fast despite having some solidly bad habits. When you're a beginner, trying to know who to take advice from is a skill all it's own... (We were buying lift tickets yesterday and overheard the bike rental person telling riders to never, under any circumstance, touch the front brake. "We have to put them on there, but don't ever use them - it's dangerous!!" :madman

Personally - I've experienced the phenomenon of feeling like my bike is teaching me something too. Heck, I recently had a friend explain that the benefit of this new tire he was using that had knobbies way on the side but was virtually a semi-slick in the middle was that it was teaching him to lean over more, because otherwise he was going to blow out of every corner. I get it, but I'm not running out to buy those tires! But that's still a trial and error process. If you want to learn well and learn quickly - actually working on and understanding fundamental skills is going to make you learn leaps and bounds faster than putting in thousands of miles on any bike. And if you're actually taking the time to learn the fundamentals, you can do that on whatever type of bike it is you want to ride.

I know some people want to mountain bike because they don't feel like it requires instruction, they just want to jump on a bike and go figure it out on their own - and there's nothing wrong with that. Certainly everyone has their own reasons and goals for riding, and if your goal is to escape the world and do your own thing, I'm never going to tell you you need to take lessons to do it. But if your goal is to learn fundamental skills as quickly as possible, my vote goes to lessons/skills camps/instruction over picking anything other than the type of bike that sounds fun to you, fits and functions well, and is as good as reasonably fits in your budget.


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## snowgypsy (Jun 5, 2011)

Connie,

I agree that lessons and skills camps are a HUGE asset to any rider - beginner, intermediate, advanced, or expert. However, there is something to be said for listening to yourself and your bike and learning from experience. The best instruction I've ever received has been on the trail, listening and watching friends with decades of riding experience between them. Yesterday, I met a complete stranger on the trail who cleared a technical uphill section that had defied me for days - his advice and cheering helped me clear it for the first time.

A camp is a great opportunity to learn fundamentals and meet other riders - no doubt about that. But the best way to ride, climb, and dare I say, learn? The execution of those skills, wherever they are gathered, depends on the rider and those skills only make sense once they are experienced. The aahh-haa moment so to speak.

And the truth is that sometimes, you have to work with what you have and find the silver lining in every situation or bike that you happen to be on that day. It took us a year to save up for the bike that fit and functioned well - and well, it didn't keep me from learning and having a blast in the time in between. The bike doesn't make the rider. And teaching yourself doesn't mean learning alone - its just a different way of going about it


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## Rae6503 (Jun 30, 2009)

I need to send this entire thread to my husband. We are having this debate right now. Honestly I am kind of reluctant to up grade. I like my bike! I am emotionally attached to it. But it's going on 9 years old (although I haven't really put that many miles on it).

Right now I'm doing pretty well with technical down hill. My biggest issues are technical uphill sections (and switch backs with water bars). Should I wait until my uphill improves before I trade in the hard tail? I don't think it's that heavy and I'm not a small girl...


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## Nerdgirl (Mar 13, 2007)

Ray6503 said:


> I need to send this entire thread to my husband. We are having this debate right now. Honestly I am kind of reluctant to up grade. I like my bike! I am emotionally attached to it. But it's going on 9 years old (although I haven't really put that many miles on it).
> 
> Right now I'm doing pretty well with technical down hill. My biggest issues are technical uphill sections (and switch backs with water bars). Should I wait until my uphill improves before I trade in the hard tail? I don't think it's that heavy and I'm not a small girl...


[temptress]Heh. You don't need to ditch your current bike - just add a new one to the quiver! [/temptress]


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

Nerdgirl said:


> [temptress]Heh. You don't need to ditch your current bike - just add a new one to the quiver! [/temptress]


That's what I would do! 

(Seriously. Then down the road if you decide you love your new bike so much you never ride the old one anymore, maybe then it's time to sell. But if you can afford to keep it and start a bike quiver, why not? And the other nice thing is that you then have a spare bike if anything ever breaks, if you have a friend who wants to try riding with you, etc.)


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## Rae6503 (Jun 30, 2009)

LOL. I would like to park my car in my garage someday...


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

Ray6503 said:


> LOL. I would like to park my car in my garage someday...


Don't think of it as a garage, think of it as a workshop. :thumbsup:


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

I thought garage was just another word for bike room.

2 car oversized garage + over 30 bikes (for 2 adults and 2 teens) = no cars in the garage


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

antonio said:


> Riding a heavy, ill-functioning bike can make for horrible initial experiences, and make it so that there never is a "next kind of bike" for many potential female (and male) mtb'ers, who instead decide to quit.


Did you not see the part where I talked about the importance of a well-functioning bike being essential? It is all about confounding the learning experience. Compared to good operation wieght is a lesser consideration.

I train new girl riders. They ride what they have for a seasonmore or less; 28 lb plus ht or rigids. We make sure it works _really_ well. When commitment increases, finances change, and skill level reaches a certain point, the next bike gets alot of focus. That focus is based upon the experience of the rider. They have ridden a lot, seen other bikes many times, compared bikes with other girls, have the coaching resources who have watched them ride for many miles and can add that sense of context. Without experience on the bike "a better bike" is a concept without much definition.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

Ray6503 said:


> I need to send this entire thread to my husband. We are having this debate right now. Honestly I am kind of reluctant to up grade. I like my bike! I am emotionally attached to it. But it's going on 9 years old (although I haven't really put that many miles on it).
> 
> Right now I'm doing pretty well with technical down hill. My biggest issues are technical uphill sections (and switch backs with water bars). Should I wait until my uphill improves before I trade in the hard tail? I don't think it's that heavy and I'm not a small girl...


Loving your bike is simply huge.:thumbsup:


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## RachEden (May 9, 2011)

Berkeley Mike said:


> Did you not see the part where I talked about the importance of a well-functioning bike being essential? It is all about confounding the learning experience. Compared to good operation wieght is a lesser consideration.
> 
> I train new girl riders. They ride what they have for a seasonmore or less; 28 lb plus ht or rigids. We make sure it works _really_ well. When commitment increases, finances change, and skill level reaches a certain point, the next bike gets alot of focus. That focus is based upon the experience of the rider. They have ridden a lot, seen other bikes many times, compared bikes with other girls, have the coaching resources who have watched them ride for many miles and can add that sense of context. Without experience on the bike "a better bike" is a concept without much definition.


From a female perspective, yes loving your bike is huge. However, I started this year on a heavy hardtail that fits perfect and I'm not afraid to beat up. I'm definitely looking to upgrade next season, but it's also helped me figure out exactly what type of bike I want to buy next.

That being said...not everyone is like me.


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