# Lil shredder phenom 24 vs. Spawn Rokusuta 24



## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Looking at getting a bike for my tall 7 year old. On a 24 front suspension now. 

Can folks who have seen both compare and contrast? Would probably go used on the Lil Shredder so ~2k either way.

Ride some of trails, some park/downhill, some backyard "freeride".

Big picture:
-Spawn has horst link vs. single pivot
-Spawn probably heavier
-Lil shredder has better components 


Specific questions:

-Any difference in how they pedal? Would Expect Spawn to be better, but the weight may offset that. Lil Shredder an older design?
-Any comments on setting up the X-fusion stuff for kids?
-Any other comments?

We love Spawns, but Lil shredders look super nice. My 5 yo is on a 20 Yama Jama and the geo, fork, everything is great. The Eldorado Fork makes that bike. He will probably be looking for a 20 dual soon, but holding off for now.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

cakemonster said:


> Looking at getting a bike for my tall 7 year old. On a 24 front suspension now.
> 
> Can folks who have seen both compare and contrast? Would probably go used on the Lil Shredder so ~2k either way.
> 
> ...


I also have the YJ 20 for my 5yr and its also been amazing. The fork is so nice it laughable. That being said we are also keeping an eye on the 24in market as that will come soon enough. We do most blue trails with a diamond in there once in a while. No parks yet so we are either shuttled by Mom or are pedaling up and riding down. Is there a reason you aren't considering the Trail Craft Maxwell? The Spawn Rockstar is just under 28lbs. I'm guessing the Shedder is close to that as well. The Maxwell is 24 lbs though!! Pretty huge weight savings there that is tough to ignore. Also their Geo is unique, in a good way, in that they are actually using a 24in fork (Snyper). The weight and the geo seems like there really isn't a better bike out there for a Fully. However I've been so happy with our Spawns that I'd be a bit sad to switch companies.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

svinyard said:


> I also have the YJ 20 for my 5yr and its also been amazing. The fork is so nice it laughable. That being said we are also keeping an eye on the 24in market as that will come soon enough. We do most blue trails with a diamond in there once in a while. No parks yet so we are either shuttled by Mom or are pedaling up and riding down. Is there a reason you aren't considering the Trail Craft Maxwell? The Spawn Rockstar is just under 28lbs. I'm guessing the Shedder is close to that as well. The Maxwell is 24 lbs though!! Pretty huge weight savings there that is tough to ignore. Also their Geo is unique, in a good way, in that they are actually using a 24in fork (Snyper). The weight and the geo seems like there really isn't a better bike out there for a Fully. However I've been so happy with our Spawns that I'd be a bit sad to switch companies.


To me 24 inch fork a huge drawback on a bike. Dedicated 20 makes sense but once close enough to design a 26inch fork in your world opens to really nice production forks (Fox/RS) and used ones as well...

I get the weight savings. Will check out the Maxwell, but Trailcraft seems more focused on CC bikes. Maybe a misperception.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

That 4lb difference is massive if your kid is doing any amount of climbing. I think the Maxwell is the only option for an "All Mountain" bike aside from a custom build. All of their other bikes are XC. I think the fork is supposed to be nice. Heck, if it's anything near the Brood Fork we both have, it'll be more than fine. I'm not in love with the rear shock tho.

I just think of my guy going from the 20ish lb YJ to a 27ish Rokkusuta. Pretty dang big weight jump. Worries me a little.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Lots of great bikes, but stand by my 26 comment.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

cakemonster said:


> Lots of great bikes, but stand by my 26 comment.


Yeah I'm not the expert on these anyways. What is your thought on the extra 2" of stack/a2c though with the 26in fork? Is that a big deal to an all mountain rider?


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

svinyard said:


> Yeah I'm not the expert on these anyways. What is your thought on the extra 2" of stack/a2c though with the 26in fork? Is that a big deal to an all mountain rider?


. Reasonable point. Probably depends on size of kid relative to bike. My son has a 24 inch fork bike now (cube) and the quality of the 24 inch forks I have seen is low which has soured me to them while looking for replacements . But maybe that one is better. Still doubt it is on par with a fox 32 factory etc, which is an option with a 26 fork.

I would think it would be more like an inch (radius difference, not diameter) but I could be wrong.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

cakemonster said:


> . Reasonable point. Probably depends on size of kid relative to bike. My son has a 24 inch fork bike now (cube) and the quality of the 24 inch forks I have seen is low which has soured me to them while looking for replacements . But maybe that one is better. Still doubt it is on par with a fox 32 factory etc, which is an option with a 26 fork.
> 
> I would think it would be more like an inch (radius difference, not diameter) but I could be wrong.


I ran the stack numbers in BikeGeo (screenshot below), I think the numbers are pretty close to being right but let me know if not. That is right at 2in of extra stack, which correct me if I'm wrong is even a big deal for Adults right?

The RST Snyper is about the ONLY 24in fork worth a dang. RST makes a dang good fork. Plus they are tuned for light riders too. I'ml guessing its pretty sweet like the Brood.

I think the overall performance of the shock may not be THAT much, especially since the Snyper is specifically designed for kids. The weight and the Geo though, those will be impactful every moment of every ride.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Can't argue with that calculation. Thank you.

It would be great if more high quality 24 inch forks and maybe that fit. 

Agree the lil shredder and spawn folks probably went to 26 because of paucity of 24 inch forks. Also think they have a slightly different target (enduro/dh) and so to get to 140 travel etc might have had to go to 26 forks.

Agree Maxwell looks very nice. Glad there are a lot of cool bikes for kids.

Didn't know stans mk3 came in 24. Where can you get those?


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

This guy https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2250519/ lists the weight of his Phenom as 12.5 kg. So 27.5 lbs, basically no difference compared to the Spawn. Component spec on the Phenom will depend on the bike as a lot of Shredders are custom builds, some are going to be older and have some dated parts, etc. For me, this came down to the fact that unless you get very lucky and someone local is selling one, buying a used Shredder is generally a PITA. It was worth the hassle when they were the only real option, but not so much now.

Maxwell is definitely worth considering. Depends on your priorities regarding uphill vs. downhill performance. And budget.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

RMCDan said:


> This guy https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2250519/ lists the weight of his Phenom as 12.5 kg. So 27.5 lbs, basically no difference compared to the Spawn. Component spec on the Phenom will depend on the bike as a lot of Shredders are custom builds, some are going to be older and have some dated parts, etc. For me, this came down to the fact that unless you get very lucky and someone local is selling one, buying a used Shredder is generally a PITA. It was worth the hassle when they were the only real option, but not so much now.
> 
> Maxwell is definitely worth considering. Depends on your priorities regarding uphill vs. downhill performance. And budget.


Dan do you have the 24in Rokussuta? What kind of riding are you guys doing? We do a lot of up and down. Obviously the downhill is what we are there for but uphill is a requirement (Post Canyon trail system - Oregon). My kids want to ride like your kids lol.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

RMCDan said:


> This guy https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2250519/ lists the weight of his Phenom as 12.5 kg. So 27.5 lbs, basically no difference compared to the Spawn. Component spec on the Phenom will depend on the bike as a lot of Shredders are custom builds, some are going to be older and have some dated parts, etc. For me, this came down to the fact that unless you get very lucky and someone local is selling one, buying a used Shredder is generally a PITA. It was worth the hassle when they were the only real option, but not so much now.
> 
> Maxwell is definitely worth considering. Depends on your priorities regarding uphill vs. downhill performance. And budget.


Snyper fork does look nice. Mid level ($450, not the $150 Spinner or Suntour XCR) but not a $800-1k fork either(Fox 32 etc). Good balance.

Snyper - RST Suspension

I had gotten the newer Suntour XCR on the replacement program which is an improvement compared to the old, but in retrospect wish I had seen the Snyper. Do you know who sells them in the USA?

Found wheels here...

https://www.dirtmerchantbikes.com/kids-bikes/24-stans-crestdt-350-wheels

https://www.bikerumor.com/2016/02/1...ountain-bike-wheels-now-available-separately/

Also super nice...Didn't know about those either.

Brood 20 inch fork gave a nice, light mid-level alternative to the MRP Rustler. Looks like the Synper may be a similar hit.

Thank you for all the info.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

svinyard said:


> Dan do you have the 24in Rokussuta? What kind of riding are you guys doing? We do a lot of up and down. Obviously the downhill is what we are there for but uphill is a requirement (Post Canyon trail system - Oregon). My kids want to ride like your kids lol.


I only have the 20. A friend got the 24 for his son and it is t!ts. We lean heavily toward the DH/DJ side of things, but until about a year ago he didn't even have gears so climbing wasn't really an option. As I said in the other thread he recently did a 750 vert rocky singletrack climb in Moab no problem. He could easily knock out more on buff trails.

I'd love to ride Post one day. I love Hood River in general. A friend lives there and we used to visit regularly pre-kids.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

cakemonster said:


> Brood 20 inch fork gave a nice, light mid-level alternative to the MRP Rustler.


I know a guy who has the Rustler on his kid's bike. The Brood is the better fork. A guy at my LBS has completely stripped down a Rustler before and says that despite the price tag there is nothing special inside. He feels pretty strongly that they overcharge for it.

On the Snyper: The F1RST is a totally decent fork, so I am sure that the Snyper will be an improvement from that at a minimum. That said, it would be a lot better if it used a cartridge damper and a thru axle. For safety reasons alone I'd be hesitant to use a QR fork on my kid's bike now. YMMV.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Good to know. I vacillated dropping $$ on a used MRP but got a Brood for my son's Kotari and sold the stock Spinner after seeing the performance of the YJ20. So far very happy with it except not through axle aftermarket. The YJ20 does have a through axle 15mm and agree that is preferable.

5-8 years ago there were none of these options. Had my whole family on lift served downhill this weekend and it is really fun. Gravity is the great equalizer as long as you keep the snacks coming on the ride up.

I am a road racer, now trail/all MTN guy, so only a matter of time before they leave me in the dust. 

Most companies now seem like started/advocated by Dads in the same predicament. Cheers to the guys who make all this stuff.


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## Andrew Reznick (Apr 15, 2014)

I don't think you can go wrong either way. I love my Yeti - but I think I would equally love a Santa Cruz, Specialized, ibis, or rocky mountain. 

My kids have Shredder phenoms and love them. They are light. The quality and components are great. The fox suspension can be perfectly tuned to their weight - and of course is reliable and works well. They had Shredder prodigies before they got phenoms, and we had some trouble with the forks - so it is nice that it is all Fox on the phenoms. Visually, I think the phenom geometry is slightly outdated with the bent top tube - but they ride great. They pedal fine. We lockout the rear shock on long climbs. Don't know if it makes much difference, because kids can't really tell or say. Most important, my kids slay the downhills, technical sections, steeps, and jumps on the phenoms. They are very slack and really DH oriented. Probably most similar to "enduro" geometry since they have about 65.5 degree head tube angle and 140 mm front and rear travel. I don't know if the Spawn is as slack.

I can't speak to the Spawn, so I can't compare them. They look really good and I'm sure kids shred them too. I would love to organize a kids bike roundup where we get kids and bikes together and trade rides on the spawn, shredder, commencal, norco, transition, and rocky mountain. Would make a great article for parents - but I have never been able to organize it.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

svinyard said:


> That 4lb difference is massive if your kid is doing any amount of climbing.


You need to get over your weight issue. Kids have been lugging 30lb bikes since kids were riding bikes. Weight is important but its not a huge deal since kids blow past the 24in size too fast. Remember its near their teenage years. Also when we're talking weight, dropping sprung weight or mass isn't nearly as important as unsprung weight/mass.


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

thesmokingman said:


> You need to get over your weight issue. Kids have been lugging 30lb bikes since kids were riding bikes. Weight is important but its not a huge deal since kids blow past the 24in size too fast. Remember its near their teenage years. Also when we're talking weight, dropping sprung weight or mass isn't nearly as important as unsprung weight/mass.


I think it depends on the riding you are doing. Chairlifting up and riding down, weight might not matter so much.

Using the same bike to climb? 4-5 pounds makes a huge difference to me, and I am a full grown 165 pound adult. Now imagine your 80 pound kid. My 31.5 pound 150mm travel bike sucks compared to my 120mm trail bike that weights 27 pounds.

Kids shouldn't have to suffer on heavy bikes for 2-3 years because they outgrow them so fast. Also, define fast. My son was on a 24" for about 3 years on 24" wheel size. He developed some pretty awesome riding skills and rode some distances many adults still talk about - I'm not so sure either would have happened if he was on a 28-30 pound bike. YMMV.


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## Brett Nichols (Sep 9, 2016)

*Bought 2016 Lil Shredder 24" Phenom*

A cool bike dad lowered the price on his outgrown Lil Shredder 24" Phenom yesterday to 1100 bucks. I was his 20th call in 3 hours, but I was willing to drive 90 minutes from Bellingham to Seattle to pick it up. At 3 foot 11 and 3/4s, I'm jumping the gun a little on a 24" for my 8 year-old son, but he's beyond ready for back suspension and more than the inch of travel he's getting out of the suntour fork on his Hotrock 20". He slayed the cul-de-sac on it yesterday. I'll post again when we've had a chance to hit some real trails. FWIW, the bike looks and feels awesome. Well under 30 pounds, slack head angle, real, functional suspension, 1x, etc.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Pulled the trigger on the 20 and 24 Rokkusutas for my boys and they arrived yesterday. Christmas in May. Thank you to Spawn for answering all my questions.

Both are the updated version with the TR27 rims and the tubeless ready tires. I have only built up the 20. Suspension seems like will definitely be tuneable for our 57 lb almost 5.5 year old. Weighed stock and 25lbs exactly before going tubeless.

Will build up the 24 this weekend.

Kids will get some time on them this weekend local then hopefully get to the bike park in the next couple weeks and can post.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

> You need to get over your weight issue. Kids have been lugging 30lb bikes since kids were riding bikes. Weight is important but its not a huge deal since kids blow past the 24in size too fast. Remember its near their teenage years. Also when we're talking weight, dropping sprung weight or mass isn't nearly as important as unsprung weight/mass.





> I think it depends on the riding you are doing. Chairlifting up and riding down, weight might not matter so much.
> 
> Using the same bike to climb? 4-5 pounds makes a huge difference to me, and I am a full grown 165 pound adult. Now imagine your 80 pound kid. My 31.5 pound 150mm travel bike sucks compared to my 120mm trail bike that weights 27 pounds.
> 
> Kids shouldn't have to suffer on heavy bikes for 2-3 years because they outgrow them so fast. Also, define fast. My son was on a 24" for about 3 years on 24" wheel size. He developed some pretty awesome riding skills and rode some distances many adults still talk about - I'm not so sure either would have happened if he was on a 28-30 pound bike. YMMV.


Obviously it depends on the actual riding but ...
*Remember its near their teenage years. * My kid got his 1st 24 at 6 .... whatever way you look at that its a long ways off teenage years.

Either way ... I agree I can feel the difference climbing of 4-5 lbs and different geo... but I think a lot of this depends how fit the kid is and practice. My now 8yr old's FS is 4-5lbs heavier than his XC bike... and yes it makes a difference especially either racing XC or 3000' climbs on a 20 mile day....HOWEVER .. he can still do that 3000' climb in the FS... but it takes longer. HOWEVER ... I honestly believe he'd never have got to that stage starting off on the heavier bike... the fact he has the light XC and he was able to get into both the specific physical fitness and mental place where he knows it's possible is largely (I believe) down to starting doing this on a 20lb bike.

When I stick on the DH wheels & tires the bike is WAY heavier... but also draggier and its all rotating weight... there is a much bigger difference adding the wheel weight to the point we go far slower and far less distance.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Steve-XtC said:


> I agree I can feel the difference climbing of 4-5 lbs and different geo... but I think a lot of this depends how fit the kid is and practice.
> 
> When I stick on the DH wheels & tires the bike is WAY heavier... but also draggier and its all rotating weight... there is a much bigger difference adding the wheel weight to the point we go far slower and far less distance.


That brings up a funny story I have. I built my kid a set of plus wheels for his 26er FS build. I then made him ride those while I built up a set of race wheels. He was obviously slower but he was able to slay the slopes. He's got a big hill race coming up so the week before i switched wheels during training. He came home with a big grin and said he beat his previous PB by 3 minutes. The previous PB was done on his old xc hard tail. Oh and the weight loss was 2lbs in the wheelset complete with tires.


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## BikePilot1 (May 15, 2006)

Brett Nichols said:


> A cool bike dad lowered the price on his outgrown Lil Shredder 24" Phenom yesterday to 1100 bucks. I was his 20th call in 3 hours, but I was willing to drive 90 minutes from Bellingham to Seattle to pick it up. At 3 foot 11 and 3/4s, I'm jumping the gun a little on a 24" for my 8 year-old son, but he's beyond ready for back suspension and more than the inch of travel he's getting out of the suntour fork on his Hotrock 20". He slayed the cul-de-sac on it yesterday. I'll post again when we've had a chance to hit some real trails. FWIW, the bike looks and feels awesome. Well under 30 pounds, slack head angle, real, functional suspension, 1x, etc.


That's awesome!

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## lucerneCH (Jul 13, 2008)

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I'm curious if anyone can give long term feedback on the 24" full suspension bikes? Ideally I think I'm leaning towards something reasonably light as we ride up before going down. I'm in Bellingham, WA so the Transition Ripcord is the one I see out at Galbraith most often but the Trailcraft Maxwell and Lil Shredder Phenom both seem like possibilities as well. Thanks in advance for any recommendations.


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## jaybert (Sep 10, 2020)

lucerneCH said:


> Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I'm curious if anyone can give long term feedback on the 24" full suspension bikes? Ideally I think I'm leaning towards something reasonably light as we ride up before going down. I'm in Bellingham, WA so the Transition Ripcord is the one I see out at Galbraith most often but the Trailcraft Maxwell and Lil Shredder Phenom both seem like possibilities as well. Thanks in advance for any recommendations.


My son loves his custom built transition ripcord, but cant really compare it to the others since thats the only 24" we have/he's ridden. If you want light, I don't think the stock option will work for you though, especially compared to the trailcraft which I think is < 24lb on the 2 specs you can purchase right now. My son's ripcord is 24.2lb with pedals, but I've also heard of people getting down to 22lb or so depending on the fork and wheelset it is built with. My son takes his to the bike park, so we went with the Manitou Machete j-unit fork (which seems to be universally loved), and SunRingle Duroc 30 wheels w/ bitex hubs (a bit wider than the Stans Crest that are lighter, but a bit thinner. They were OOS (and probably still OOS) when I looked originally). The tires are brood maxtion 24" (the non-DH casing, which I dont see on their website at the moment) which are 1 of the lighter 24" tires out there.


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## lucerneCH (Jul 13, 2008)

Thanks for your quick response. It sounds like the ripcord has potential given it is significantly less expensive. Honestly it may come down to what I can find on the used market. My son won't be ready for it until next spring at the earliest.


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