# Vintage Chris King headset....how old?



## mojo_matic (Jul 15, 2007)

I recently picked up an older Chris King headset in nice condition. It is 1 1/8". Thought it was interesting because it did not have any etching on cups.

Not only are the cups not etched, but the overall bearing diameter is quite a bit larger than current generation King headsets, and only design of the headset is made to compensate for this (top cap and crown also larger diameter). Cap which fits on top cup is clearly stated Chris King NoThreadset. It is definitely made for 1 1/8" headtube.

I had not seen one like this before... anyone else? Any ideas when this headset was made?


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## holden (Jul 27, 2004)

early 90's? chris king co. is actually down the street from me (portland) ... i should bring the king hs i have for timeline.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

I have 6 or so...all no logo CK's. Its the only way to go.

I recently sold off two silver no logo CK threaded headsets...one being obviously an early hs as it was heavier and a tiny bit bulkier.

I thought I recall reading a thread either here or Retrobike that said they ran until about 93 without the gaudy logos on the cups.


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## floibex (Feb 7, 2004)

mojo_matic said:


> ...
> I had not seen one like this before... anyone else? Any ideas when this headset was made?


a picture might help in this special case 

ciao
flo


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## mojo_matic (Jul 15, 2007)

I plan on posting a pic later today comparing the two headsets.


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

De-evolution maybe?


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## mojo_matic (Jul 15, 2007)

Nope, not De-evolution. Headset cups fit 1 1/8" fine. If it was De-evolution, the cups would only fit specific oversized headtube.


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## mojo_matic (Jul 15, 2007)

Here is are a few pix. Cap for top cup only states, "KING SEALED NoThreadset" 

Compared to a "newer" King headset, bearings have a larger diameter, and overall is a bit "beefier."

Despite being a bit oversized, the stack height is significantly shorter than new production! Go figure.


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

I have a no logo King that I bought off a guy in Madison that used to be an engineer for Trek. They used to get no logoed head sets for the Disco team methinks. My 'compression' ring doesn't even have a logo on it. I like that. As good as the headset is, I can't stand the logo-zation of them nowa days.


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2007)

mojo_matic said:


> Here is are a few pix. Cap for top cup only states, "KING SEALED NoThreadset"
> 
> Compared to a "newer" King headset, bearings have a larger diameter, and overall is a bit "beefier."
> 
> Despite being a bit oversized, the stack height is significantly shorter than new production! Go figure.


i have one of those too, in black. larger diameter and shorter stack height. i've read somewhere that they have used the 1 1/4" bearings until they made specific 1 1/8" bearings and thus the larger outer diameter. early-mid 90s seems to be right.
the later/current style 1 1/8 head sets were available without logos for quite a while too.

Carsten


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> I have 6 or so...all no logo CK's. Its the only way to go.
> 
> I recently sold off two silver no logo CK threaded headsets...one being obviously an early hs as it was heavier and a tiny bit bulkier.
> 
> I thought I recall reading a thread either here or Retrobike that said they ran until about 93 without the gaudy logos on the cups.


all i gots is some black no-logos, how many silvers you got?

anyone know the timeline for silver HS with black logo's?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Carsten said:


> i have one of those too, in black. larger diameter and shorter stack height. i've read somewhere that they have used the 1 1/4" bearings until they made specific 1 1/8" bearings and thus the larger outer diameter. early-mid 90s seems to be right.
> the later/current style 1 1/8 head sets were available without logos for quite a while too.
> 
> Carsten


I'd like to see a King HS timeline. There are a number (at least 4) variations in the shape of the cups that I've seen.

Here's yet another shape and this wasnt exclusive to the WTB versions:


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*hmmm . . .*

I've also noticed (via Carsten) that the crown race (base plate) is also thicker on the early ones . . .

Yeah, a timeline would be insanely great . . . anybody know anyone at CK?


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Apparently this color of CK headset is highly desired and rare?

http://cgi.ebay.com/CHRIS-KING-SOUR...ryZ42336QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

DoubleCentury said:


> Apparently this color of CK headset is highly desired and rare?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/CHRIS-KING-SOUR...ryZ42336QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


*goes outside and puts green headset in the sun*

i was a little mad when my headset didnt match my hubs, on the same order.


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2007)

on the left that's an 80s CK 1" 2Nut and on the right the current actual version (originally with logos).

Carsten


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Carsten said:


> on the left that's an 80s CK 1" 2Nut and on the right the current actual version (originally with logos).
> 
> Carsten


what did you use to get the logos off? mek?


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2007)

hollister said:


> what did you use to get the logos off? mek?


that head set was a bit scuffed so i first used 600, then 1000 sandpaper and then Scratch-Out polishing compound and a polishing pad in a drill machine. if you only want to remove the logos and polish the cups the last step should be sufficient i think.

i've done that with another logo'd CK years ago which i have on my daily bad weather rider since then and there's no issue so far with corrosion of the unprotected aluminum.

Carsten


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## Slow Eddie (Jun 13, 2007)

*Look at the Bearing Cap.*

See the little diamond scribed on the bearing cap? There should be a capital letter inside. When I called CK up for a NoThreadSet conversion for my mid-90's, unmarked silver GripNut, they asked me to reference this marking so they could send the correct part. I'm not sure which letter corresponds with which iteration of cup, though logic would dictate they would start with A (either on the original design or the first redesign) and then proceed from there.

If memory serves, CK cups were unmarked only until the late 90s, when you could get them marked or unmarked from distributors, then unmarked only in limited colors from distributors, then unmarked only as a special order from CK, and I think I heard recently that CK was abandoning the unmarked version altogether, much to the dismay of the modest and quality-obsessed.


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Holy schitt. They're not THAT rare.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Carsten said:


> on the left that's an 80s CK 1" 2Nut and on the right the current actual version (originally with logos).
> 
> Carsten


The 80s headset is schweet!


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

this is the ultimate vrc geek thread. NTTAWT.


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2007)

bushpig said:


> The 80s headset is schweet!


it's now on an even schweeter bike


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Carsten said:


> it's now on an even schweeter bike


Keep rubbing it in. Not really period correct for the bike though, is it?


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> I have 6 or so...all no logo CK's. Its the only way to go.
> 
> I recently sold off two silver no logo CK threaded headsets...one being obviously an early hs as it was heavier and a tiny bit bulkier.
> 
> I thought I recall reading a thread either here or Retrobike that said they ran until about 93 without the gaudy logos on the cups.


Eric if you were the worlds only bicycle product manager I have a feeling we'd all be riding ghost bikes.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

DoubleCentury said:


> Apparently this color of CK headset is highly desired and rare?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/CHRIS-KING-SOUR...ryZ42336QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Man oh man I'd better take the half dozen or so silver ones i have to a local anodizer. I could take a few months off and ride.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2007)

bushpig said:


> Keep rubbing it in. Not really period correct for the bike though, is it?


not sure if the head set was still actual in 1991 BUT it´s the only one that has the correct stack height for the fork. the newer ones are too short and thus require an ugly spacer or would leave an even uglier gap between top lock nut and stem... so when Steve has build the fork the old King obviously was still standard for him.

Carsten


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Carsten said:


> not sure if the head set was still actual in 1991 BUT it´s the only one that has the correct stack height for the fork. the newer ones are too short and thus require an ugly spacer or would leave an even uglier gap between top lock nut and stem... so when Steve has build the fork the old King obviously was still standard for him.
> 
> Carsten


I'm guessing that you need one of the WTB/King jobbers for your Potts. Check out the stack height on Fillet-Brazed's!


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2007)

bushpig said:


> I'm guessing that you need one of the WTB/King jobbers for your Potts. Check out the stack height on Fillet-Brazed's!


yup, hence my signature  but not at any price...

Carsten


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

hollister said:


> all i gots is some black no-logos, how many silvers you got?
> 
> anyone know the timeline for silver HS with black logo's?


Sold two of my silvers a few months ago...other silvers are on Potts'.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

gm1230126 said:


> Eric if you were the worlds only bicycle product manager I have a feeling we'd all be riding ghost bikes.


I'm pro ghost riding.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Carsten said:


> not sure if the head set was still actual in 1991 BUT it´s the only one that has the correct stack height for the fork. the newer ones are too short and thus require an ugly spacer or would leave an even uglier gap between top lock nut and stem... so when Steve has build the fork the old King obviously was still standard for him.
> 
> Carsten


Yeah...otherwise it looks like this.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Yeah...otherwise it looks like this.


That's nothing that a hacksaw wouldn't fix.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

And just to add to the insanity...

Another wide-bodied King on a Potts.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

laffeaux said:


> That's nothing that a hacksaw wouldn't fix.


Cut it then reweld the plug?


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Cut it then reweld the plug?


Details, details, details ... :|


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

*Potts headtubes*

Can we branch these pics into a "Potts Headtubes" thread? 



Rumpfy said:


> Yeah...otherwise it looks like this.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

laffeaux said:


> And just to add to the insanity...
> 
> Another wide-bodied King on a Potts.


no hole in the brake boss for the der. cable, i still worry about the straddle hanger bottoming out on the bb shell.

nice ride.

seems like everyone has a nice potts but me


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

hollister said:


> i still worry about the straddle hanger bottoming out on the bb shell.


WTB offered 3 different fixes for that issue:

shorter armed roller cam

bigger rollers

or possibly the wider cam would help


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

hollister said:


> i still worry about the straddle hanger bottoming out on the bb shell.


I've put lots of miles on it without any issues yet. The mechanic that set it up did a good job.


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## Veloculture (Dec 18, 2005)

here is a 1980 Chris King headset. he started making them in 1978 i believe.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Veloculture said:


> here is a 1980 Chris King headset. he started making them in 1978 i believe.


Oh yeah? What bike is it on?


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> Oh yeah? What bike is it on?


KB CK?


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2007)

the shark found this site, that's how it started in the 70s

https://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/Chris_KING.htm

Carsten


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

hollister said:


> KB CK?


Like the burgundy bike...unlikely anyone will get the answer.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> Like the burgundy bike...unlikely anyone will get the answer.


oops, i meant KG CK....

burgundy was an OG?
edit: nope, i was right the first time KB G CK


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

*come on, he's shown part of that bike before*

i see you lurking. socks, size large.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

hollister said:


> i see you lurking. socks, size large.


I am sworn to secrecy. (am I the only one priveleged enough to have seen this little beaut?)


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## pete_mcc (Aug 19, 2006)

I picked up this NOS one a while back, not sure what to do with it as I haven't got a 1 1/8" bike but I couldn't resist the colour:










I really love the fact that the only way to tell it's a king is the tiny name on it along with the words 'oversized', must date it to the very early days of bigger headsets:










far more subtle and classy than the 'look at me and the amount I've spent on a headset' ones!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

mojo_matic said:


> I had not seen one like this before... anyone else? Any ideas when this headset was made?


On the outside of the bearing cap, look for a small etched diamond with a letter etched inside of it. Not sure how many letters they got to--my only vintage CK HS has an "F" and it's from '92.

MC


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## mojo_matic (Jul 15, 2007)

Hi Mike, T

here is no evidence of a diamond, with or without a letter in it.

Thank you for the reponse.

Cheers! :thumbsup:


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

mojo_matic said:


> Hi Mike, T
> 
> here is no evidence of a diamond, with or without a letter in it.
> 
> ...


I'd guess pre-90's then.

MC


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Here's a 'unique' King:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...1&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123#ht_500wt_1005


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

A fake maybe?


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

The seller swears I'm an idiot for suggesting as much. The cups, at least.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

What's with the caged bearings - invisible seals?


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

I can't say with absolute certainty that the HS in that listing is real, but it looks a lot like the green CK 'Team' edition I had on my IF and now on my Yo Eddy. The 'Team' edition only had KING etched around the upper and not the lower. I bought mine in 95, which I think was the first or second year it was available.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=439555

caged bearings are probably there as a prop maybe?


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Interesting! I wondered if maybe the bearings were a prop or not actually from the headset, but I haven't seen King headsets without filled-in logo lettering. Your looks similar, but the logo is different.

Meh. Who knows. I messaged they guy and he is a total (angry) ******. But I digress....
In any case, nice to get another King derivation in the thread!


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## magnetosphere (May 23, 2007)

Those caged bearing definitely look out of place and I cannot think of any possible way they would work with that headset.

I does not look like the counterfeit Chris King headsets I have seen. I have only seen to fakes and they both had the newer style etching on the out side. When they were installed you could not tell the difference between the fake and the real. The big difference is the fake headsets have inferior cartridge bearings. They use a removable bearing similar the original Race Face Deus headset from about 2005. A friend of mine traveled to Korea and brought back 2 of the fakes that he got from one of his friends in Taiwan.

I found a link to some pictures from another forum:

http://www.socalmtb.com/messages/mtb/messages/170121082533.htm


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

I think it's real. The cage'd bearings cannot fit in the cups, as the cartridge bearings are installed there.


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## Shogun700 (Jun 15, 2009)

nikoli8 said:


> I'm going to be posting a early 90's barely used Chris King Purple 11/8 threadless in the market area here soon. Once I get pictures. Was new, then installed on a bike.. Then pulled off.. I'd say 10 miles on it.. No Logos


Yeah, and I've got a mint M910 brifter, a perfect set of Avid Ultimate canti levers, and a bunch of other sweet parts I'll be listing on ebay shortly. How about I go around and dredge up every thread I can find about them and put a stupid post up to announce it? Christ.


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