# New 2019 Levo Expert or Decoy CF Pro?



## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

So, YT is dragging feet. Looking at the Levo Expert Vs. Eat crow and wait more for Decoy CF Pro. The Decoy has better componentry, but i believe the Specialized may offer better motor and tech. The specialized has the better 700w battery. If pricing was close, which one would you chose? If I go Levo, I will throw my DT carbon wheels on it.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

Gutch said:


> So, YT is dragging feet. Looking at the Levo Expert Vs. Eat crow and wait more for Decoy CF Pro. The Decoy has better componentry, but i believe the Specialized may offer better motor and tech. The specialized has the better 700w battery. If pricing was close, which one would you chose? If I go Levo, I will throw my DT carbon wheels on it.


Decoy. I'm built with long legs and shorter upper body; the 611 mm ett in large is perfect for me; l found the Levo slightly too long but I'd fit with a cut-down riser bar to bring the handlebars closer.

For stability and steering feel I also like the Decoy; 44mm fork offset instead of 51mm plus a slightly slacker head angle means more trail.

But I know that there is a Levo Expert sitting in the shop 12 miles from my house because I've ridden it; that plus the bigger battery (not just a suggestion that one might be available in the future) might tip the balance in favor of the Levo.

If both bikes were sitting in front of me and I had a wad of cash in my hand I would ride away on the Decoy.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Good points. They Levo with the 700w Battery will also be a few pounds lighter. I would lose fork and shock spec and di2 if I went Levo. Tough decisions! I would gain instant dealer support for 2yrs. Also, maybe YT will go thru some teething?


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Unfortunately there’s no comparison. The YT Pro race has way better suspension, more travel, just about all the components are better. Remember the YT has the new battery tech that’s supposedly gives longer range, plus they are developing a 700wh battery for all the decoys. Plus the new Shimano software lets you customize all 3 levels to your needs. Decoy wins hands down!


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Hmmm, I’m waiting on FC to chime in as he’s probably the only guy that has ridden both and has ridden a **** load of emtbs!

Levo plus:
-Local dealer
-700w Battery 
-stronger- quieter motor
-proven stump jumper platform
-lighter weight
-Buy now and stop getting jerked around.

YT plus
- Nicer wheels, Shock, fork, bars, dropper, stem, di2


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

If money was no concern I’d get a levo and put a reduced offset Mezzer fork on it. I own a Decoy, it’s awesome. But the Levo is significantly lighter, which makes it more fun in the air, which is how I like to ride. The battery and motor are so much better than the e8000, it’s not even close. But for the price the decoy is pretty rad. I’m having a lot of fun on mine.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Ive got a 2019 Lyrik i could exchange for the pike and could throw my dt swiss carbon wheels on board. My dealer is willing to give me a great deal on price. Gonna decide today to tell YT to pound it or wait another month. My terrain is probably more apt to the Levo.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

I've said this before, but I couldn't wait for YT either and the Levo Expert I thought was overpriced, but also at the same time not readily available. So I bought the Tazer and never looked back. Everytime I'm out, I can't stop smiling! I'm sure if you get the Levo, you'd have the exact same feeling!


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Im really happy with my Focus as Ive gotten it down to 46#, albeit 376watt battery. I can eek out 23-24miles, 2-3k elevation on the 376 battery. I'm always in eco mode. Now if I could get Levo to 46ish # with a 700w battery, that would be bad ass! There is so many sweet bikes out there. In 2016 I bought my first Levo, they have changed alot.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

Gutch said:


> Ive got a 2019 Lyrik i could exchange for the pike and could throw my dt swiss carbon wheels on board. My dealer is willing to give me a great deal on price. Gonna decide today to tell YT to pound it or wait another month. My terrain is probably more apt to the Levo.


The reviews on the Decoy do indicate that there's a tradeoff for that confidence-building Enduro Performance and you can choose which trails to ride. I wish that I had your choice; Levo today !!! or Decoy maybe next month!


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Thanks, well my dealer would have to order the Levo as no one stocks crap around here! But, looking at 4 days vs. 4 MORE weeks.


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

Would someone please explain what fork offset from 51mm to 44mm does for the how the bike handles.
Seems like Fezzari claimed that less fork offset makes their Wire Peak steer better on steep climbs.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

craigsj said:


> What is this? What "battery tech" other than capacity can give "longer range"?


Both bikes use the new 21700 battery cells.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

highroad 2 said:


> Would someone please explain what fork offset from 51mm to 44mm does for the how the bike handles.
> Seems like Fezzari claimed that less fork offset makes their Wire Peak steer better on steep climbs.


51 offset has lighter steering and is less floppy at low speeds. 44 or 42 offset is heavier steering that helps you hold a line through turns and is more stable at high speeds. Reduced offset give slightly more weight distribution to the front wheel. I like reduced offset.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

craigsj said:


> OK, but 21700 and 18650 energy density is the same so 21700 does not provide longer range (unless it provides greater capacity).
> 
> 21700 is a packaging alternative, not a new technology.


I'm also dubious about longer range claims.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

craigsj said:


> OK, but 21700 and 18650 energy density is the same so 21700 does not provide longer range (unless it provides greater capacity).
> 
> 21700 is a packaging alternative, not a new technology.


That's what I heard, but I looked at the specs. and it has a 540wh battery. So yes, higher capacity vs the standard 504wh Shimano battery.

YT is touting this new 21700 battery. Does it have any advantage over the 18650?

Thanks,

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Going with then Levo! YT cool about refund (obviously, they are oversold). Let the build begin. So, new Levo owners, I'm on the bubble with sizing. 6'1" . My gut tells me Large for manueverability, but I dont want a 3'seat post and 4" drop to my stem like good ole XC days. What size are you running? I'm proportionally normal, i think..!


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## squashyo (Oct 28, 2003)

Here's my $.02. I have the Levo and it's just a fantastic bike (once you get better suspension). It is a descending machine and can dole out 40 mile rides (far more if you opt for a second battery). I also have a YT Capra and it's a fantastic bike.

The BIGGEST issue I have though is....this is a pretty new technology and I am pretty positive you will have issues. My Levo has had 4 warranties (loose wires, bad wires, engine died). I still love the bike but my hunch is Capra will find itself in the same boat as this is the flag ship. The issue is, I can take the Levo to Mike's bikes and get it fixed pretty quick. The YT...you are shipping a whole bike for every issue that arises...am I right? If they are having issues getting new bikes out, imagine the waits on warranties.

That's my take...I'd go with the Levo personally as I have been riding it for 6 months and can't get enough of it. I'm sure the YT will be dope but I think it will come with some serious baggage.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

craigsj said:


> OK, but 21700 and 18650 energy density is the same so 21700 does not provide longer range (unless it provides greater capacity).
> 
> 21700 is a packaging alternative, not a new technology.


Tried to prove you wrong but 30 x 70g for 21700 cells is 300 grams more than 40 x 45g for 18650 cells. Thats a lot of extra weight for a very slight capacity gain.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

squashyo said:


> Here's my $.02. I have the Levo and it's just a fantastic bike (once you get better suspension). It is a descending machine and can dole out 40 mile rides (far more if you opt for a second battery). I also have a YT Capra and it's a fantastic bike.
> 
> The BIGGEST issue I have though is....this is a pretty new technology and I am pretty positive you will have issues. My Levo has had 4 warranties (loose wires, bad wires, engine died). I still love the bike but my hunch is Capra will find itself in the same boat as this is the flag ship. The issue is, I can take the Levo to Mike's bikes and get it fixed pretty quick. The YT...you are shipping a whole bike for every issue that arises...am I right? If they are having issues getting new bikes out, imagine the waits on warranties.
> 
> That's my take...I'd go with the Levo personally as I have been riding it for 6 months and can't get enough of it. I'm sure the YT will be dope but I think it will come with some serious baggage.


Good advice, I'm going with the Levo. What size and how tall are you?


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## squashyo (Oct 28, 2003)

I went Med...I'm 5'9".


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Apologies in advance for straying from the topic but as long as it is brought up....

Batteries are rated in wh's, Volt x Amp = wh's. Volt x Amp hours = watts. So no such thing as a xxxxxw battery. 

The 700wh Levo is also a 2170 cell format battery. 

As mentioned density is density but a higher volume battery at a high Ah rating, up to 5 Ah for 2170 cells, will have a higher discharge and charge rate. For the purpose of software controlled bikes the higher discharge rate doesn't really have any effect other than at any given rate it will be working marginally less "hard" to produce the amount of energy, Volts, being called for. So at lower watts you may see a slight decrease in wh/mi used. 

Higher output motors, like the forthcoming Flyon that also has a 2170 battery, will benefit from the higher discharge rate and the software will probably play it to it's full potential. 

But the biggest benefit of the larger cells pertains to their higher charge rate. For instance the Flyon is advertising the ability to charge @ 10a which is twice as much as you probably should do an 18650 at. Most chargers are 4a for instance. The highest rate I have seen on spec is 8a however for the 2170 LG 5A cells. Even at that you wouldn't want to charge at that high a rate all the time as it would degrade battery life but for the once in awhile top off over lunch back to 80%, the last 20% of charge always happens more slowly with chargers anyway, it could be useful to prolong your day. 

I have been using a 52v/15ah/780wh battery for 6 months now and the biggest thing I have noticed is that with my controller limited to 250w I now average 9.5 wh/mi where before with my 18650 it would be more like 11 wh/mi. But if I bump to 500w it levels out at 14 wh/mi for both and stays about the same on up the scale dependent on average speed/terrain requirements. 

As far as the OP goes I think he should have just kept the Jam and waited for things to settle down a bit. It's a fine bike especially with the upgrades he did, except for the digicamo tape anyway....Selling it for a loss with only 180 miles on it seems a shame.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Thanks for the battery smarts. I won’t loose that much cash when the dust settles. My Focus is a great bike, just like to try something different. I’ve probably had 15 different vehicles in the last 1 1/2 years.

Btw, if you want to buy it I’ll peel off the camo tape!!!


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Gutch said:


> Hmmm, I'm waiting on FC to chime in as he's probably the only guy that has ridden both and has ridden a **** load of emtbs!
> 
> Levo plus:
> -Local dealer
> ...


I have not ridden an E8000 but I am told it has a significant surge feel. So if natural petal feel matters to you (and for me it is huge), then Levo is probably better. Sound matters to me a lot.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Components don't really matter. The feel between NX and X01 is not significant. The better motor and battery and stealth look of the Levo matter so much to me. Also the Levo is lighter.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I ended up with a ‘19 Levo Expert. I’m happy, but got a great deal - $ wise. My Focus Jam2 has shimano E8000 and don’t have any problems with it.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Gutch said:


> I ended up with a '19 Levo Expert. I'm happy, but got a great deal - $ wise. My Focus Jam2 has shimano E8000 and don't have any problems with it.


Wich size?


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Both XL.


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## comtn (Jan 23, 2018)

Gutch said:


> I ended up with a '19 Levo Expert. I'm happy, but got a great deal - $ wise. My Focus Jam2 has shimano E8000 and don't have any problems with it.


What price were you able to get it for? I'm looking to upgrade from a '18 levo but there is no way I am dropping 8200 plus tax.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

PM Sent.


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## ffej1 (Apr 23, 2019)

Do you still have your Decoy and what size is it? Have you heard if YT is making any changes with the frame next year and do you still think the Levo is nicer handling due to the lighter weight. I am looking for a used Decoy or Levo, thanks, J


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

ffej1 said:


> Do you still have your Decoy and what size is it? Have you heard if YT is making any changes with the frame next year and do you still think the Levo is nicer handling due to the lighter weight. I am looking for a used Decoy or Levo, thanks, J


 I never received the Decoy. I cancelled and bought the Levo. I'm happy with it thus far. No idea what YT will do next year. I doubt anything. Good luck on your search.


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## ffej1 (Apr 23, 2019)

Did you switch out the forks for the better Fox 36 160 and any change in the rear shock to the Cane Creek coil or? thanks, J 
And what does the Levo weigh with the setup you have?


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I run DVO F&R. 47# XL Ready to ride.


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Unlike analog bikes reliability and ease of warranty parts replacement should be high on the list as well. 

These things are not quite Honda reliable yet.. Sucks waiting for a motor replacement.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

My Levo is for sale, check it out in the Classified Forum. Great buy!


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

Gutch
Your 2019 Levo is for sale.
What bike is next


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I am buying a BMW K1600 GTL motorcycle and selling a few toys (for the time being) to cover the cost. Probably another Levo down the road.


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