# On the fence...CamelBak Skyline LR 10 or K.U.D.U. 12?



## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

$10 price difference both <$100...I like the looks of both. Both seem to get good reviews. Not sure I need the back protection but it certainly can't be a bad thing to have it in there. I don't need a huge pack...few tools, some food, and ability to stow away a light vest or jacket and warmers/gloves in the winter as I shed off layers or rain/wind jacket in the summer. Currently using an old model of the HydraPak Big Sur and it still is in great shape but I find it a little too small. No idea what the storage volume is but I'd guess it's definitely less than 10L. Probably 6-8L if that. 12-14L is ideal I think for what I need, 10L would probably work just fine as well. Really...anything more than what I have now is good. I can get what I need in the Big Sur but it gets really packed in there. 

Also open to other suggestions. My pack experience is limited as far as on the bike. The Big Sur is actually the only hydration pack I own,


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## Arebee (Sep 13, 2012)

A few years back, I tried both the Osprey Raptor and the Camelbak Mule NV. Both were similar in size and price and I ended up buying the Osprey because it just felt better on my back. It had a few benefits over the Mule, like a removable tool pouch and a rigid bladder that makes fill-ups easier. It also has a lifetime "All Mighty" guarantee. If they can't repair it they will replace it, no matter how old. I broke the magnetic clip after I shut it in my car door. I sent them a picture and they sent out TWO clips free of charge. Raptor comes in 14L and 10L versions and there are smaller models as well.

Here's my review from 2 years ago. Hope it helps!

http://forums.mtbr.com/nutrition-hy...rey-raptor-14-vs-camelbak-mule-nv-990978.html


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Yeah...been looking at some Osprey packs too. Also, I can get a pretty good deal (40% off retail) on some of the deuter stuff...I really like the looks of the Attack Enduro 16 but I think it might be a little too much bag and doesn't come with a bladder so even with the deal I still have to shell out more for water storage. So....still looking at some options.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

http://forums.mtbr.com/apparel-protection/camelbak-skyline-10-lr-vs-usual-long-narrow-1012958.html

There is some good reading in there on the Skyline.

I have the Skyline and its predecessor, the Volt. They are both lumbar packs, designed to sit low on your back. In my view, they are revolutionary. I barely notice wearing them. The Skyline picks up where the Volt left off. Fit and finish of the Skyline is absolutely impeccable. CamelBak did a very nice job on it.

The last 3 packs I have bought have been Camelbaks (HAWG, Volt, Skyline). Each time I brought home an Osprey Raptor 14 to A/B them. Each time I returned the Osprey.

The Skyline raises the bar for the industry. My black and orange one is absolute killer. Love love love the detachable bladder (where the hose stays attached to the pack).

Really well designed. Especially for super techy riding where other packs ride high and slop around on your back.

All the packs are decent now. But the Skyline is in a league of its own. The lumbar design in and of itself elevates it above the others. The only downside is price. But you get what you pay for.

Good luck.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

I went ahead and ordered both CamelBaks. I'll just return the one I like least.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Nubster said:


> I went ahead and ordered both CamelBaks. I'll just return the one I like least.


Excellent. Keep us posted.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

My personal vote is Skyline.

I've been using one for almost a year now. While backpacks aren't my favorite, the "low and wide" is leaps and bounds better than the "tall and narrow" typical hydration pack I wore for many years, IMO.

There's definitely a few features that I think CB missed the mark on with the Skyline, but they are little things that I can work around, not deal breakers, and probably not issues for normal people (just OCD like me). I really want more pockets in the storage area to keep tools from just jangling, rattling around in the bottom, and want the middle mesh pocket to be just a bit bigger so a tube fits nicer. . I'd like to see a zipper closeure on both hip pockets, I don't trust the 'elastic envelope' for keys, and I wish they both were *just a bit* roomier- 2 Clif Bars get all smashed up being crammed in there. 


Overall It's still my go-to pack for the long rides.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

ARandomBiker said:


> My personal vote is Skyline.
> 
> I've been using one for almost a year now. While backpacks aren't my favorite, the "low and wide" is leaps and bounds better than the "tall and narrow" typical hydration pack I wore for many years, IMO.
> 
> ...


Agree on all of this.

Interestingly, the Volt has 2 zippered pockets on the back and 2 larger zippered pockets on the waist belt. Not sure why they abandoned this with the Skyline. That said, I have both the Volt and the Skyline, and the Skyline is a much better pack overall.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Glad the Skyline gets overwhelmingly positive reviews. As does the KUDU it seems. I'm very interested in seeing how the low and wide works. I ordered from Nashburn so they have a good return policy even though it will cost me $7.99 to return one of the packs. But I got them both for <$100 each so it was a really good deal that was hard to pass up.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Today I bought the Skyline equivalent for women, a black and turquoise Solstice, for my daughter. Killer.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Arebee said:


> A few years back, I tried both the Osprey Raptor and the Camelbak Mule NV. Both were similar in size and price and I ended up buying the Osprey because it just felt better on my back. It had a few benefits over the Mule, like a removable tool pouch and a rigid bladder that makes fill-ups easier. It also has a lifetime "All Mighty" guarantee. If they can't repair it they will replace it, no matter how old. I broke the magnetic clip after I shut it in my car door. I sent them a picture and they sent out TWO clips free of charge. Raptor comes in 14L and 10L versions and there are smaller models as well.
> 
> Here's my review from 2 years ago. Hope it helps!
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/nutrition-hy...rey-raptor-14-vs-camelbak-mule-nv-990978.html


The Skyline and Solstice both come with a removable roll up tool pack, and all CamelBaks carry a lifetime warranty. No doubt, Ospreys are awesome. too. It comes down to personal preference.

For me, with the Volt, Skyline and Solstice, the low slung weight on my hips and not my shoulders is revolutionary. The only negative is that I seriously cannot tell how much water I have left because I can never feel the weight of it, full or empty.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Packs arrived today. Both are really nice. I need to load them up with some weight to get a better idea but honestly...the Skyline doesn't really seem to have much more if any more capacity than my Big Sur. So I may have underestimated how big the Big Sur actually is. And I do need more room. So for that reason...The KUDU is initially on top. But I'll have a better idea once I load them up and see how they both handle the gear and how they feel. Both are excellent looking packs though and seem to be top notch in the quality. It'll be my first CamelBak.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Nubster said:


> Packs arrived today. Both are really nice. I need to load them up with some weight to get a better idea but honestly...the Skyline doesn't really seem to have much more if any more capacity than my Big Sur. So I may have underestimated how big the Big Sur actually is. And I do need more room. So for that reason...The KUDU is initially on top. But I'll have a better idea once I load them up and see how they both handle the gear and how they feel. Both are excellent looking packs though and seem to be top notch in the quality. It'll be my first CamelBak.
> 
> View attachment 1157411


Yeah. The Skyline holds significantly less than its predecessor, the Volt. I don't mind that as it prevents me from hauling around loads of unnecessary **** that I usually carry with my Volt.

Make sure to try to Skyline, if that won't preclude your return of it. I put my old HAWG on the other day. It's incredible how much better the Skyline feels, low on my back. Like I said, it's almost weightless. My HAWG will never get used again.

Congrats, good luck, and keep us posted.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Verdict? Reasons for decision?


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Well...Likely the KUDU between the two. Mostly due to the larger capacity but also because the Skyline doesn't fit me as well since I'm a big guy.

To throw another wrench in there...I also ordered a Dakine Drafter 14L. It's kinda a combo of the two. Has a lumbar hydration pouch to move some weight low, offers back protection (back protector sold separate though), and has larger carrying capacity, hopefully not too much but in pics of people wearing it...doesn't look like a huge pack. It doesn't ride on the hips like the Skyline but the lower weight of the water should help some. And it's a nicer looking pack IMO.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Sweet. The Dakine does indeed look nice. Congrats and enjoy whichever one you keep.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

Nubster said:


> the Skyline doesn't fit me as well since I'm a big guy.
> 
> It does ride on the hips like the Skyline but the lower weight of the water should help some..]


^are you saying the Dakine does ride low on the hips, or it does not? Your use of "but" in that sentence makes it sound like it does not.

I've heard this before - that the Skyline doesn't fit larger people as well, which is why I'm considering one of the Wingnut packs instead.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

d365 said:


> ^are you saying the Dakine does ride low on the hips, or it does not? Your use of "but" in that sentence makes it sound like it does not.
> 
> I've heard this before - that the Skyline doesn't fit larger people as well, which is why I'm considering one of the Wingnut packs instead.


Just for reference sake, I weigh 190 without gear. I am 6 feet tall. 34 inch waist. The Skyline fits me like it was custom made by a tailor.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

d365 said:


> ^are you saying the Dakine does ride low on the hips, or it does not? Your use of "but" in that sentence makes it sound like it does not.
> 
> I've heard this before - that the Skyline doesn't fit larger people as well, which is why I'm considering one of the Wingnut packs instead.


From what I've seen the pack fits like a normal pack but the water bladder is down low keeping the weight low. So it should kinda function similar to the Skyline but it won't sit on your body like the skyline. I think I missed an n't in there when I was typing last night. Should have said doesN'T sit on the hips like the Skyline. My bad for causing the confusion.



mtnbkrmike said:


> Just for reference sake, I weigh 190 without gear. I am 6 feet tall. 34 inch waist. The Skyline fits me like it was custom made by a tailor.


I'm 6'2" and 260 and we won't talk about my waist...I will say I can buckle the hip belt. But it's snug.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Nubster said:


> ...I'm 6'2" and 260 and we won't talk about my waist...I will say I can buckle the hip belt. But it's snug.


I'm trying my best to stick to a 3000+ calorie per day diet and have been doing the 5x5 StrongLifts program religiously for about 3 months now. I hope to narrow the gap between us weight-wise over the winter. At least a bit anyway. I have already gained 8 pounds and have completely shedded what little extra baggage I had on my lanky frame. Hopefully that Skyline will still fit next riding season. I will be looking to you for pack suggestions if it doesn't.

Keep us posted on the Dakine. It looks killer. Good luck.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

I'm trying to lose so maybe I can help get that gap closer...lol...My biggest issue is I have a big upper body. 52" chest and 57" around the shoulders. Better than it used to be when I was lifting really heavy. But I'd like to be smaller. But at the same time I still have that desire to be big. It's a tug of war. But the activities I enjoy most definitely benefit from being smaller and I think just health and longevity would benefit from being smaller too. I'd be plenty happy to be around 225.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

Well I'm 225, wishing I was 190...

I hurt my back awhile ago, which is why I'm looking for a pack that rides on the hips like the Skyline or the Wingnut packs. My pack now is OK, but I feel it when it is full. Just keep dragging my feet on ordering a Wingnut. Their 3.0 reportedly has more volume than a CB Mule. I like the 2.5. I do like the Skyline bladder though, and if the pack was cut more like the wingnut, I'd get it for the tool roll. lol.


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## Dr Evil (Sep 20, 2015)

Ordered a Skyline due to this thread. Thanks for the info.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

It's a really nice pack for sure. Well made and seems well thought out. If it fits...I'm sure you'll like it a lot.


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## Dr Evil (Sep 20, 2015)

Nubster said:


> It's a really nice pack for sure. Well made and seems well thought out. If it fits...I'm sure you'll like it a lot.


Thanks! I'm thinking at 5'4" 148 lbs it will fit like a glove.:thumbsup:


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Dr Evil said:


> Ordered a Skyline due to this thread. Thanks for the info.


Wow. That's a lot of pressure. I truly hope you like yours as much as I like mine.

I did a 4 hour ride yesterday. That pack performed like a champ.

That said, this is a good reminder of how I need to be very careful with these posts. I sincerely meant everything I said but I am reminded by your post that there is a certain degree of responsibility when commenting on any product. I DO love this pack though, and I believe you will too. State of the art.

Good luck and please keep us posted.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Dr Evil said:


> Thanks! I'm thinking at 5'4" 148 lbs it will fit like a glove.:thumbsup:


Yup...I don't think you'll have any fit issues...lol


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## Kevin Gordon (Oct 2, 2008)

CB Skyline vs Mule (have used both), my preference is the low and wide Skyline. Wrt the elastic pocket - perfect for my Garmin Oregon, easy access on the fly. Isn't it great to have choices?


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## Dr Evil (Sep 20, 2015)

Received my Skyline today and tried it on without water or my stuff. Very nice pack. Fit pretty well and I'm looking forward to riding with it this Sunday.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Dr Evil said:


> Received my Skyline today and tried it on without water or my stuff. Very nice pack. Fit pretty well and I'm looking forward to riding with it this Sunday.


Good luck, have fun, and please keep us posted on your post-ride thoughts.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Drafter is supposed to be here tomorrow. Looking forward to checking it out and comparing to the KUDU.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

So...the Dakine Drafter 14L has been delivered. First impression...super nice bag and looks great. The color scheme is sweet. I like that it's a bit subdued and could easily double as a day pack without being too loud. I don't mind bright colors on the bike...it's actually kinda a safety feature in a way. But if I am using a pack while on vacation or at a festival or something...I'd rather keep it a little more on the down low.









Bladder is similar to the Skyline. It's a 100oz (3L) horizontal design made by Hydrapak with an easy access side opening on the pack. Quick disconnect hose so it doesn't need to be taken out of the pack to remove the bladder though it wouldn't be difficult at all to do so if you wanted/needed to remove it. There's a magnetic holder on the shoulder strap. The opening for the tube is on the left side top so it forces you to route the hose on your left...no option to have it on the right.

















Exterior...helmet carry fits my size large Bell Stoker MIPS no problem. Probably not a feature I'll actually use other than maybe just to keep the pack and helmet together when packing up for a bike trip. Otherwise...it would make a good area to pack pads or maybe to carry a jacket or some other clothes on the outside of the pack. Great for quick access to a wind vest/jacket or rain gear. Has one elastic pouch on the side big enough for a water bottle if you use the bag and don't need the bladder. Or for snacks or a small camera. No pockets on the hip belt which I was kinda surprised. Not sure I care really. There are also two hide-a-way straps on the bottom to carry elbow or knee pads or whatever else you'd want to strap in there.

















Compartments. Has a soft lined eye wear/electronics compartment at the top of the pack to protect against scratches...something I do like to have on a pack. There's a compartmentalized compartment on the outside behind the helmet holder. It's a clam-shell opening with multiple zippered sections for tools as well as a dedicated pump sleeve that's off to the side so it's not in line with your spine which is nice. Then the main compartment is kinda on the small side as it's only half the depth of the pack since the bladder compartment takes up the bottom half. But I think you could probably still fit stuff in the bladder compartment too...food or soft items like gloves or beanie in the winter. Arm warmers, ect. There's also a pocket for back protection which is not included but offered by Dakine.

























So...super nice pack for sure. It does fit well. Plenty of room on the chest and waist so any big guys looking at this bag...it will fit most likely. It does seem that it wants to ride low which I assume is part of the design since the bladder is low. Not quite a low rider pack like the Skyline but definitely lower than a regular pack.

I am disappointed that there's no rain cover. Next post I'll do a direct comparison between the Drafter and KUDU. And while it seems like I'm singing high praises for the Dakine...and I am...from initial impressions...I've not yet decided which pack I'm keeping. I need to gather all my gear and do a direct side by side and see which one fits my stuff the best and feel better on my back.


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## Bob Tilton (Aug 25, 2017)

Arebee said:


> A few years back, I tried both the Osprey Raptor and the Camelbak Mule NV. Both were similar in size and price and I ended up buying the Osprey because it just felt better on my back. It had a few benefits over the Mule, like a removable tool pouch and a rigid bladder that makes fill-ups easier. It also has a lifetime "All Mighty" guarantee. If they can't repair it they will replace it, no matter how old. I broke the magnetic clip after I shut it in my car door. I sent them a picture and they sent out TWO clips free of charge. Raptor comes in 14L and 10L versions and there are smaller models as well.
> 
> Here's my review from 2 years ago. Hope it helps!
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/nutrition-hy...rey-raptor-14-vs-camelbak-mule-nv-990978.html


Purchased Raptor as well. Fantastic functional pack! I think Osprey is killing it in pack design.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Bob Tilton said:


> Purchased Raptor as well. Fantastic functional pack! I think Osprey is killing it in pack design.


I don't think Osprey offers a pack with a low riding bladder. That is the principal advantage of the Skyline and Solstice. As for other features, I think one might be splitting hairs, although I will say that the fit and finish of the Skyline and Solstice packs is of exceptionally high quality. But yeah - we all have our favorites and it's obviously nice to have choice among decent options.


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