# How often do you replace your chain???



## mikerod87 (Apr 22, 2009)

Sorry if this has been already posted. 

I purchased a new bike 6 months ago and has a HG53 Shimano chain on it. Non-zinc plated. I have 500 miles on the chain. I used dry lube after each ride but this chain makes noise under stress. The chain is a piece of crap. 

I haven't checked if its stretched but how often do you replace your chain on a MTB? 500/1000 miles?

Will it make a difference?

I just purchased a 7701 XTR Chain and need to put it on.


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## Zoke2 (Nov 16, 2007)

if you say the original chain is a poc ... and you have a new chain

replace it


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## Zoke2 (Nov 16, 2007)

...


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## JGill (May 2, 2008)

I replace it when it breaks


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

JGill said:


> I replace it when it breaks


if that was the case, I'd never replace chains 
I replace it when it 'stretches' to 12 1/16" or more


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Everyother month. I'm a maintenance nazi though. And I ride a single speed so findin bmx chains for cheap is not hard at all.


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## dhoffroad (Oct 5, 2009)

well mine was 4 months old and I just broke it so I guess I change mine 4 months....LOL...


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

mikerod87 said:


> Sorry if this has been already posted.
> 
> I purchased a new bike 6 months ago and has a HG53 Shimano chain on it. Non-zinc plated. I have 500 miles on the chain. I used dry lube after each ride but this chain makes noise under stress. The chain is a piece of crap.
> 
> ...


Sounds like your chain lube is crap if you have to lube every ride and your chain still makes noise. Try a real chain lube that works for the conditions you ride in.

I replace my chain when the "stretch" equals 12 1/16" pin to pin


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## hows it goin (Apr 22, 2008)

i have been told to replace mine every 1500-2000km but it depends on if ur riding in mud or dust or whatever


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## mikerod87 (Apr 22, 2009)

mtnbiker72 said:


> Sounds like your chain lube is crap if you have to lube every ride and your chain still makes noise. Try a real chain lube that works for the conditions you ride in.
> 
> I replace my chain when the "stretch" equals 12 1/16" pin to pin


To all thanks for the comments.

I've been using white lightening.I saw on another thread using chain saw bar oil.(it might have been you that said this)

Any recommendations for lube? I ride in Florida where its pretty dry this time of year.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Ditto on this one except I do 24 1/16", then the chain goes into the used parts bin for the beater or as an emergency replacement. Normally takes me about 1k miles to get that stretch.



highdelll said:


> if that was the case, I'd never replace chains
> I replace it when it 'stretches' to 12 1/16" or more


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## dirthead (Feb 5, 2004)

mikerod87 said:


> To all thanks for the comments.
> 
> I've been using white lightening.I saw on another thread using chain saw bar oil.(it might have been you that said this)
> 
> Any recommendations for lube? I ride in Florida where its pretty dry this time of year.


Chain-L. Been using it for over a year with terrific results in the desert. I'm getting about 3X more time between lubes than when using Prolink, or anything else for that matter.


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## chuckie33 (Oct 2, 2008)

mikerod87 said:


> To all thanks for the comments.
> 
> I've been using white lightening.I saw on another thread using chain saw bar oil.(it might have been you that said this)
> 
> Any recommendations for lube? I ride in Florida where its pretty dry this time of year.


I've been using Rock N Roll Extreme with great results.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

LyNx said:


> ... then the chain goes into the used parts bin....


you can also make some jewelery with it.
My nephews thought the bracelets I made for them were really cool and tough lookin :thumbsup:
I wear one too!


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

mikerod87 said:


> To all thanks for the comments.
> 
> I've been using white lightening.I saw on another thread using chain saw bar oil.(it might have been you that said this)
> 
> Any recommendations for lube? I ride in Florida where its pretty dry this time of year.


I use a biodegradable Bar and Chain lube (Renewable Lubricants) in the 15w-50 formula cut 50/50 with Canola Oil. It has worked fantastically so far in the wet PNW. As good as any wet lube I have ever used. I spent a total of $15 for enough product to make 64oz of lube and share with my riding buddies. Used in moderation, wet lubes work great in dry conditions as well...better than any wax based lube IME.

If you'd rather buy a pre-made product, the Pedros Chainj, Go, or Ernesto Lube would be similar products.

:thumbsup:


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

When it stretches.

Get the Park Tool chain wear indicator and replace when between .75 and 1.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Run your chains right out to 1% stretch....

In dusty conditions you also have to wash your chain as well as lube it...to get the dirt out...

I would say at least 2000 km if not 3000 km would be a long run for a chain.


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

nachomc said:


> Get the Park Tool chain wear indicator and replace when between .75 and 1.


No need to pay $25 for that tool...most new chains show .50 on it. .75 is 12 1/32", and 1 is 12 1/16".

I own one from my bike shop days and have done the comparisons


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

mtnbiker72 said:


> No need to pay $25 for that tool...most new chains show .50 on it. .75 is 12 1/32", and 1 is 12 1/16".
> 
> I own one from my bike shop days and have done the comparisons


$25 

$9.95 @ Jenson

$8.99 @ eBay

Or you could get this Sette one:

$5.38


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

$0.48


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

nachomc said:


> $25
> 
> $9.95 @ Jenson
> 
> ...


Get a chain checker....

Easy to use, every week or so measure the stretch, it will help you understand what is causing your chain to wear, and you can easily improve your maintance...(increase it or decrease it)....

I generally have a beer or two while I clean and fix up the bike....Since I clean and lube everything first, then measure the chain....I probably couldn't get an accurate reading without the chain checker by that time.

I use the Park tool one...

Most of the CN-7701 chains start at about .3 or .4 they quickly stretch out to somewhere around .75, then the stretch slows down I get ohhh 75% of the life of the chain from .75 to 1....

One ride can put 10% strech on a chain just depends on a what happens.


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

nachomc said:


> $25
> 
> $9.95 @ Jenson
> 
> ...


Was refering to a Park CC-2

even at $6-$10 (plus shipping), it is a not needed. A simple tape measure does the exact same thing and is just as accurate.


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

highdelll said:


> $0.48


Well almost...you need it to go past 12" but your on the same thought process:thumbsup:


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## mikerod87 (Apr 22, 2009)




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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

mtnbiker72 said:


> Was refering to a Park CC-2
> 
> even at $6-$10 (plus shipping), it is a not needed. A simple tape measure does the exact same thing and is just as accurate.


If you can find a funcken tape measure when you need it...

Get a chain checker make your life easy.


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## ae111black (Dec 27, 2008)

Lol!!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

jeffscott said:


> Run your chains right out to 1% stretch....
> 
> In *all* conditions you also have to wash your chain as well as lube it...to get the dirt out...
> 
> I would say at least 2000 km if not 3000 km would be a long run for a chain.


There, I fixed it. I usually scrub and degrease my chain once or twice a season depending on how gritty and noisy it gets. Doesn't matter whether it's wet or dusty...dirt has gritty pieces of sand, silt, and clay in it (going from larger to smaller particle sizes).

I won't spend any more than required for an HG73. Unless you got one of the XTR's on clearance. If you don't clean it from time to time, it'll get just as noisy and gritty as your old HG53. Except with the lighter, more expensive chain, it'll probably wear faster.

I found it better to learn how to maintain my bike before I bought expensive upgrade parts. But at 500 miles of use and making noise, it was probably still due. I just would not have bought an XTR (though seeing some on clearance at less than what I usually spend makes me want to buy a couple just to have as spares when it comes time to replace chains).

Best way I've seen to clean a chain is to remove it and bathe it in degreaser. I have a chain scrubber and it's not as effective as I'd like (and it's messier). A 20oz soda bottle works well for cleaning a chain.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jeffscott said:


> If you can find a funcken tape measure when you need it...
> 
> Get a chain checker make your life easy.


Dear god why? You can use a tape-measure for so many other things, what else can you do with a chain-checker? In the bike shop, we always used the tape-measure. Occasionally we used the rholoff tool to check cassettes.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Jayem said:


> Dear god why? You can use a tape-measure for so many other things, what else can you do with a chain-checker? In the bike shop, we always used the tape-measure. Occasionally we used the rholoff tool to check cassettes.


You the man....

get a chain checker life is easy..

Bend over read a little ****en lines...in the shadows.


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

jeffscott said:


> If you can find a funcken tape measure when you need it...


Sounds like a personal issue...any mechanic worth a crap would have a tape measure in his tool box with all his other tools

Mine cost $3 and has both SAE and Metric on it, I've had it for over 10 years


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

mtnbiker72 said:


> Well almost...you need it to go past 12" but your on the same thought process:thumbsup:


yeah, just making a point...
But, I have enough visual acuity to determine a 16th" past the 12" mark. 

FWIW, I use these and as a graphic designer, I have a few lying around (among other types), so finding one is never a problem.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

mtnbiker72 said:


> Sounds like a personal issue...any mechanic worth a crap would have a tape measure in his tool box with all his other tools
> 
> Mine cost $3 and has both SAE and Metric on it, I've had it for over 10 years


Okay big boy

Can you measure .50 stretch versus .60 stretch...

lets see that would be 6.03 inchs versus 6.036 inches okay that is .006 inches difference right???

Ahhh something like 1/128 of an inch....I can't find that on any of my tape measures????

Hey maybe you could measure 24 inches that would be .024 of an inch about 1/32 of an inch....Just take the chain off no problem.

Look if you want to track how your chain is wearing get a chain checker it is way easier.


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

when it starts skipping


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

insanitylevel9 said:


> when it starts skipping


you've waited tooooo long


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## qkenuf4u (Jan 24, 2009)

geezz some of you guys must be dam hard on your chains.. my raliegh finally broke its chain a couple months ago after 3yrs of riding......


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

qkenuf4u said:


> geezz some of you guys must be dam hard on your chains.. my raliegh finally broke its chain a couple months ago after 3yrs of riding......


now there's a brand you don't hear of everyday!
pics?


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## Stevirey (Jul 16, 2005)

*replace chain*

When it's stretched more than a 1/16 ".A good chain with good care will last longer than you think.


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

highdelll said:


> you've waited tooooo long


:skep:


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## qkenuf4u (Jan 24, 2009)

highdelll said:


> now there's a brand you don't hear of everyday!
> pics?


bought a 300$ raliegh in 2007 to take my mind off life etc..... used it for street riding 15+miles a day in 115* heat after my fiance broke it off with me after 8yrs... helped me loose 30lbs and 10 jean sizes... (that along with my depression meds) :thumbsup:


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

qkenuf4u said:


> bought a 300$ raliegh in 2007 to take my mind off life etc..... used it for street riding 15+miles a day in 115* heat after my fiance broke it off with me after 8yrs... helped me loose 30lbs and 10 jean sizes... (that along with my depression meds) :thumbsup:


Did the new chain actually work without skipping? Typically chain stretch causes wear to the cassette and chain rings, and a new chain won't seat properly, causing skipping, especially under load.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

insanitylevel9 said:


> :skep:


skep?

how's this then...
(Michael Jordan) "highdelll is the only reason I quit basketball, to play baseball, and then play basketball again ... any questions?"

- his words - not mine...


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Chain stretch is a combination of things, conditions you ride in, mileage you ride, gear ratios you like to ride, torque, do you hammer like a monster or spin like a hamster. So seriously ask yourself, what sort of mileage do you put in in a year and is it mainly road, smooth fireroad or rough trail with hard tech climbs etc. FYI I used to change my chanin 3 times a year a couple years back when riding hard, bu then again I prob did 3500 miles off roading in all kinds of weather and much.



qkenuf4u said:


> geezz some of you guys must be dam hard on your chains.. my raliegh finally broke its chain a couple months ago after 3yrs of riding......


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Huh?*



jeffscott said:


> Okay big boy
> 
> Can you measure .50 stretch versus .60 stretch...
> 
> ...


Do you track your chain stretch? It's a chain. It's a go/no go based on stretch. You really have trouble "finding" a tape measure when you need it but have no problem finding your chain checker?

I have a machinist's ruler that I've had for 20 years. It seems to work just fine for measuring. I don't see the need for a specific tool to take a measurement.


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## PscyclePath (Aug 29, 2007)

Get a ruler. 12 links of chain (e.g., 12 inner and 12 outer plates) should measure 12" center to center on the pins. When the center-to-center measurement gets to 12 1/8 inches, it's high time for a new chain. Some above advocate changing out the chain at 12 1/16", and that's cool, just a little more conservative. Once you get to 12 1/8, though, you need to check for wear to your chainring and cog set, too.

The commercial chain-checking tools work much the same way, but a ruler or tape measure is cheaper and more readilly available.


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

dirthead said:


> Chain-L. Been using it for over a year with terrific results in the desert. I'm getting about 3X more time between lubes than when using Prolink, or anything else for that matter.


+1 for the chain L oil


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

mtnbiker72 said:


> Was refering to a Park CC-2
> 
> even at $6-$10 (plus shipping), it is a not needed. A simple tape measure does the exact same thing and is just as accurate.


actually its even more accurate
the chain checkers use about 3 or 4 " of chain , that is a very small amount of stretch to measure. if youre looking at 1/16" over 12" a 3" tool is looking at .0156" . That tiny amount can very easily be shown by misstake.
a tape measure can measure 12" or 24" and give a very accurate result and who doesnt have a ruler or tape measure? so the cost is free


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

jeffscott said:


> If you can find a funcken tape measure when you need it...
> 
> Get a chain checker make your life easy.


if you cant find a tape measure , how can you find a chain checker? same rules apply
I have one in my tool box with all my other tools


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

jeffscott said:


> Okay big boy
> 
> Can you measure .50 stretch versus .60 stretch...
> 
> ...


.5 vs. .6 of what? 
all you need to measure is if your chain is 1/16" longer than 12" period. if its less , youre all set. if its more you need a new chain 
BTW if youre measuring 24" you need to be under 1/8" 
a chain checker is not easier that a ruler, I would say theyre about equal, but a ruler will give a far more accurate reading


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## qkenuf4u (Jan 24, 2009)

nachomc said:


> Did the new chain actually work without skipping? Typically chain stretch causes wear to the cassette and chain rings, and a new chain won't seat properly, causing skipping, especially under load.


lol dont know yet since i bought a FS YETI ASX to replace it..... but how things are going it may just get a new chain since im selling the YETI on pinkbike and ebay...


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Ken in KC said:


> Do you track your chain stretch?You betcha It's a chain. It's a go/no go based on stretch. You really have trouble "finding" a tape measure when you need it but have no problem finding your chain checker?Yup chain checker only gets used at the bike stand tape mesure gets used all over the place
> 
> I have a machinist's ruler that I've had for 20 years. It seems to work just fine for measuring. I don't see the need for a specific tool to take a measurement.


So good for you....I track the chain wear and have learned to adjust my maintaince to minimize that wear...

Why well I ride an average of 7500 km/year, through the winter, I used to go through oh 5 chains in a year, now I got it down to maybe 2 or 3.....

My bike is ridden 6 out of 7 days a week, it is always ready to go...

I don't like to spend time on unneccessary maintaince and washing, so I learned when and how I should clean the bike (and chain)....

Get a chain checker learn something move on..


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

dan0 said:


> .5 vs. .6 of what? Stretch maesured as a fraction per the tool
> all you need to measure is if your chain is 1/16" longer than 12" period. if its less , youre all set. if its more you need a new chain BS tracking chain wear is important to minimize washing and wear
> BTW if youre measuring 24" you need to be under 1/8"
> a chain checker is not easier that a ruler, I would say theyre about equal, but a ruler will give a far more accurate readingBS


Get a chain checker learn something move on.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Huh? v2*



jeffscott said:


> BS tracking chain wear is important to minimize washing and wear
> 
> Get a chain checker learn something move on.


So your bike washing schedule is dictated by chain wear? You have a really complex system. I wash my drive train when it's dirty. I replace my chain when it's outside its wear tolerance. I don't keep spreadsheets on wear or washing.

I usually agree with your advice/posts. I just don't see how a chain stretch tool is so important. It's almost like suggesting that a pedal wrench is mandatory over a 15mm box end. A ruler provides as much or more accuracy, costs nothing and should be part of a bike tool kit.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Ken in KC said:


> So your bike washing schedule is dictated by chain wear?to a degree You have a really complex system.nope dead simple I wash my drive train when it's dirty.Good for you I replace my chain when it's outside its wear tolerance. I don't keep spreadsheets on wear or washing.neither do I
> 
> I usually agree with your advice/posts. I just don't see how a chain stretch tool is so important. It's almost like suggesting that a pedal wrench is mandatory over a 15mm box end. A ruler provides as much or more accuracy,No it doesn't costs nothing yes it doesand should be part of a bike tool kit.Yeah I got rulers and calipers too


Look the thing is you if you track something...you will more quickly learn what causes the wear, and you can adjust your habits to minimize the time involved and improve the end results...

That matters when you ride 6 out of 7 days, and can blow through a chain in a month...

For example I don't wash the bike through the cold spells even though it picks up a fair amount of grit and salt (washing tends to increase the wear)...But geez when the Chinook hits you gotta get after it.

Stuff like that I would not have learned without the chain checker...

If your go through a chain every year just change it out in the spring....no need to check...


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

jeffscott said:


> Get a chain checker learn something move on.


I have a chain checker, haven't used it for 3 or 4 years
I check the wear on my chain with a tape , its more accurate, and just as easy to do
I go through 3 chains a year, more or less, check for wear weekly, ride 5-6 times a week.
your argument as to why you track the wear is bogus, I can tell you why chains wear without looking. if you're riding in muddy or dusty conditions your chain will wear faster, likewise if you don't lube enough. otherwise you're talking mechanical issues which usually show themselves( like a bent ring, dérailleur hanger) 
if using a gadget makes you feel better than go for it
if you'd rather use something thats more accurate and free use a tape or ruler
Its surprising that since you're so meticulous as to your chain wear you would insist on using something thats not as accurate as a tape


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

*Really???*

WOW  You ride 6 days a week and only log 4600 miles in a year :eekster: Seriously? :???: If I rode that much I'd clock at least 8k miles.


jeffscott said:


> So good for you....I track the chain wear and have learned to adjust my maintaince to minimize that wear...
> 
> _*Why well I ride an average of 7500 km/year, *_through the winter, I used to go through oh 5 chains in a year, now I got it down to maybe 2 or 3.....
> 
> My bike is ridden 6 out of 7 days a week, it is always ready to go................


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

dan0 said:


> I have a chain checker, haven't used it for 3 or 4 yearsWhat type
> I check the wear on my chain with a tape , its more accurateno it isn't, and just as easy to dono it isn't
> I go through 3 chains a year, more or less, check for wear weekly, ride 5-6 times a week.
> your argument as to why you track the wear is bogus, I can tell you why chains wear without looking.no you can't so why does washing when its cold increase wear if you're riding in muddy or dusty conditions your chain will wear faster,what about snow, salt likewise if you don't lube enough. otherwise you're talking mechanical issues which usually show themselves( like a bent ring, dérailleur hanger)
> ...


Not meticulous just careful and practical....


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

LyNx said:


> WOW  You ride 6 days a week and only log 4600 miles in a year :eekster: Seriously? :???: If I rode that much I'd clock at least 8k miles.


Your where? the caribbean somewhere, hmmm,

I am where? the Eastern Slopes of the Rockies hmmm

Guess i am slow.


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

Chain checkers like the Park one are not as accurate as measuring. They are an effective was for me to show a customer "look how worn your chain is - it is off the charts on this chain checker" but that is about as precise as they get. Hell, you can make it read whatever you want just by pushing harder - the thing is a little flexy.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

apat13 said:


> Chain checkers like the Park one are not as accurate as measuring.BS They are an effective was for me to show a customer "look how worn your chain is - it is off the charts on this chain checker" but that is about as precise as they get.Nope not true Hell, you can make it read whatever you want just by pushing harder - the thing is a little flexy.Yup that would be an idoit bike mechanic


So you can measure the difference between 0.5% stretch and 0.6% stretch with a tape measure ehh...

So you must be really good at eyballing 1/128th of an inch then....

Want to get an accurate repeatable chain wear measurement in less than 10 secs, get a chain checker...

Wash the chain, Lube the chain, apply the checker squarely, then with gently and consistant force(same concept has a caliper or a micrometer), read the number....

Done right I can't see the difference between three different readings, on the chain...

Oh BTW I get three or four chains on a Connex quick link can you think of a way to measure the wear on a quick link quickly and accurately.


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

I think you missed my point regarding readings on the Park tool. I did not say it was the right thing to do, I just said you _could_ get it to read whatever you want by pushing harder. I might be an idiot, but I am a decent mechanic.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

apat13 said:


> I think you missed my point regarding readings on the Park tool. I did not say it was the right thing to do, I just said you _could_ get it to read whatever you want by pushing harder. I might be an idiot, but I am a decent mechanic.


Okay so used properly it provides quick accurate measurement of chain wear....

Better than trying to read 1/128 of inch with a tape measure or a ruler...

I have tried to use my dial calipers on the chain but was not satisfied with the accuracy, on the chain, cause the caliper didn't fit right.


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

apat13 said:


> Chain checkers like the Park one are not as accurate as measuring. They are an effective was for me to show a customer "look how worn your chain is - it is off the charts on this chain checker" but that is about as precise as they get. Hell, you can make it read whatever you want just by pushing harder - the thing is a little flexy.


 exactly


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

jeffscott said:


> Okay so used properly it provides quick measurement of chain wear....


 fixed.


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

jeffscott said:


> Okay so used properly it provides quick accurate measurement of chain wear....
> 
> Better than trying to read 1/128 of inch with a tape measure or a ruler...
> 
> I have tried to use my dial calipers on the chain but was not satisfied with the accuracy, on the chain, cause the caliper didn't fit right.


who is looking for 1/128th of an inch, 1/16" over a foot is what were talking about
the problem with the checkers is that they only measure a few inches
1/16" =.0625"
the checkers are measuring the same wear over 4 " so they are trying to measure 1/3 as much play =.0208333"
alot more room for error, not to mention the checkers only measuring 4 links vs 12 and if you go to 24" you're allmost checking the whole chain.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

dan0 said:


> who is looking for 1/128th of an inch, 1/16" over a foot is what were talking aboutNo we are talking accuracy
> the problem with the checkers is that they only measure a few inches
> 1/16" =.0625"No 4 inches
> the checkers are measuring the same wear over 4 " so they are trying to measure 1/3 as much play =.0208333"
> alot more room for error, not to mention the checkers only measuring 4 links vs 12 and if you go to 24" you're allmost checking the whole chain.


So lets work on your numbers ehhh

12 inches times 1.01 (1% stretch) = 12.12 inches....so for 1% stretch at 12 inches we have 1/8 of an inch

if you want to measure a .1% stretch you need to measure 1/80 of an inch.

Sorry buddy get a grip

You can't measure that accurately....The chain checker can and does...

If you are going to measure 24 inches then you have to take the chain of and that ain't as quick in my books.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

apat13 said:


> fixed.


Yeah that is probably how you align brakes too...

Ohhh look magic it is fixed.

Idiot and a bad mechanic.


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

jeffscott said:


> Yeah that is probably how you align brakes too...
> 
> Ohhh look magic it is fixed.
> 
> Idiot and a bad mechanic.


Everyone knows you align brakes with a rubber mallet and a screwdriver. What the hell kind of hack do you think I am?!?!?!?


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

tape measures are more accurate. if you cant read a tape measure, you're probably severely mentally impaired and should not be touching sharp objects like metal tape measures. 

1/16ths are clearly on tape measures. its either at 1/16th or it isnt. im amazed someones dense enough to argue about how hard it is to read a ruler.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Huh? v3*



jeffscott said:


> So lets work on your numbers ehhh
> 
> 12 inches times 1.01 (1% stretch) = 12.12 inches....so for 1% stretch at 12 inches we have 1/8 of an inch
> 
> ...


Yeah, if you want to measure 1/100% you need to measure 1/800 of an inch. But we're not talking about measuring individual links with the degree of precision you're suggesting we need to. We're talking about measuring 1/8-1/16 inch over 12 inches of chain.

Out of curiosity, how often do you change your chain stretch tool? As frequently as you measure, it's likely worn down and out of tolerance. It is after all a mechanical interface with a metal chain.

My ruler doesn't wear over time.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Ken in KC said:


> Yeah, if you want to measure 1/100% you need to measure 1/800 of an inch.Geez even I can divide But we're not talking about measuring individual links with the degree of precision you're suggesting we need to.Iam and have made that clear We're talking about measuring 1/8-1/16 inch over 12 inches of chain. You are but you are not learning the wear patterns as quickly as I am
> 
> Out of curiosity, how often do you change your chain stretch tool?Havn't yet As frequently as you measure, it's likely worn down and out of tolerance.Get a Grip It is after all a mechanical interface with a metal chain.
> 
> My ruler doesn't wear over time.


The chain checker is a trending tool and it works well it measures accurately to about 5% stretch, has to be a clean chain...

When I finally change the chain I always compare the new to the old to cut it at that time...

Guess what same stretch measured that way as with the chain checker...

So again BS...

Oh BTW rulers get knicked and bent and that cause them to wear out as well after all when you lay a ruler up against something it is a mechanical interface with a metal.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Ken in KC said:


> Yeah, if you want to measure 1/100% you need to measure 1/800 of an inch. But we're not talking about measuring individual links with the degree of precision you're suggesting we need to. We're talking about measuring 1/8-1/16 inch over 12 inches of chain.
> 
> Out of curiosity, how often do you change your chain stretch tool? As frequently as you measure, it's likely worn down and out of tolerance. It is after all a mechanical interface with a metal chain.
> 
> My ruler doesn't wear over time.


BTW you must be using a 12 inch ruler right....cause a longer one wouldn't fit between the rings...

So how exactly are you measuring 12 and 1/6....just eyballing or are you measuring 6 inches??


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*All right...*



jeffscott said:


> The chain checker is a trending tool and it works well it measures accurately to about 5% stretch, has to be a clean chain...
> 
> When I finally change the chain I always compare the new to the old to cut it at that time...
> 
> ...


You win. Although if I were you, I'd worry about tolerance. I know you suggested that I get a grip, but you're the one throwing out degrees of precision down to .1%. Mechanically, it makes sense that there's wear on the measurement tool. Calipers and micrometers need calibarted over time (with use) for the same reason.

I'll go ahead and continue to use my machinist's ruler. It's metal, doesn't bend, has no knicks and has been working fine as a measurement tool for as long as I've had it.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Ken in KC said:


> You winWhat do I win a new chain checker?. Although if I were you, I'd worry about tolerance. I know you suggested that I get a grip, but you're the one throwing out degrees of precision down to .1%.Got the numbers wrong Mechanically, it makes sense that there's wear on the measurement tool. Calipers and micrometers need calibarted over time (with use) for the same reason.My calipers are 20 years old and they are bang on caompared to my micrometer that has been used maybe once for that time
> 
> I'll go ahead and continue to use my machinist's ruler. It's metal, doesn't bend, has no knicks and has been working fine as a measurement tool for as long as I've had it.


Look do what you want, the chain checker will measure chain wear to about 1.005 or 0.5% stretch, not 0.1% stretch.

It is quick, it is handy...

With care any tool can last a long time, but even with care a knicked ruler wher you want to measure is still knicked.

BTW Is you ruler 12 inch long?


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Machinist's Ruler...*



jeffscott said:


> BTW you must be using a 12 inch ruler right....cause a longer one wouldn't fit between the rings...
> 
> So how exactly are you measuring 12 and 1/6....just eyballing or are you measuring 6 inches??


I use a Mitutoyo machinist's ruler. It's 15" long, about 5/8" wide and 1/16" thick of rigid metal. It measures down to 1/64". Works great for me.


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

jeffscott said:


> So lets work on your numbers ehhh
> 
> 12 inches times 1.01 (1% stretch) = 12.12 inches....so for 1% stretch at 12 inches we have 1/8 of an inch
> 
> ...


youre not using the right numbers, the accepted limit of "stretch" for a bike chain is 1/16" to 1/8" over a foot. most use 1/16" so as to not damage other parts. 
your own numbers above show 1% stretch for 12 inches is 1/8"
then you switch to .1% to get 1/80th inch.????
all you need to measure is 1/16" to 1/8" thats it
a chain checker only measures 4 or 5 links so thats where the problem is for 2 reasons

1 , 4 or 5 links isnt enough (what happens if you have a stiff link in the 4 or suppose 1 of the 4 links has worn a bit but not the rest of the chain) its too small a sample to be accurate for the whole chain

2, 1/16" over 12 inches converts to .0208333 or 1/48" over 4 inches so even a tiny bit off will throw the whole measurement off, squeeze the lever too hard or not hard enough, or in the case of the fixed checker jam it in or hold it too loosely. either way NOT accurate


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

dan0 said:


> youre not using the right numbers, the accepted limit of "stretch" for a bike chain is 1/16" to 1/8" over a foot. most use 1/16" so as to not damage other parts.
> your own numbers above show 1% stretch for 12 inches is 1/8"
> then you switch to .1% to get 1/80th inch.????
> all you need to measure is 1/16" to 1/8" thats it
> ...


Yes Dear!

Look I trend the chain wear it goes quickly from about .33% to about .6% to .7 % depends on how worn out the sprockets happen to be....then it slowly wears on up, jumping every now and then depending on conditions and how I have been maintining every thing.....I can easily accurately and consistently measure the difference between say .8% stretch and .85% stretch....(that is what you can't do with a tape measure)...

The biggest error is a dirty chain so you have to do it with a clean lubed chain...

If you can't apply the chain checker in a square, gentle and consistent method, then that is your problem not the tool's....I can do it easily and get the consistent quality measurement to about .05% accuracy and repeatability...

Since January my chain has slowly increased from .95% wear to just over 1%...If I can get through our last dump and cold snap (one more to go at this time of year)... I'll change it out and get that summer chain to last through to maybe October and hold it too 2 chains a year.....

If I just changed it now I could easily blow through that change and make it a 3 chain or even 4 chain year...but I know that it is wearing smoothly and easily so I'll be okay for another month or so...

BTW I can get up to 5 chains on my rear cassette, but maybe only 3 or 4 on the front big chain ring, that is what I normally ride to extend chain life.

If I only used a tape measure, I might suspect things like the above but I measured it and learned from it.


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

jeffscott said:


> Yes Dear!
> 
> nice
> your patronizing attitude and complete ignorance is amazing
> ...


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

dan0 said:


> jeffscott said:
> 
> 
> > Yes Dear!
> ...


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

While the debate rages on, just consider that not all rulers/tape measures are necessarily accurate. Use a good one. I discovered a small metal tape measure I had was inaccurate by about 1/16" over 12". It was one of those kind of small promotional type ones companies buy to put their name on; accuracy probably wasn't something they were concentrating on (but it fit so nicely in that tool kit). I've been using mostly the Park ruler (got it mostly for measuring spokes) over the CC2s I have, but I will use the CC2s too, depends which is closer to hand at the time (which tool box is closer), but will still verify things with the Park ruler before replacing the chain....


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Seriously dude, go check that "I live in the US and ride real mountains" attitude someplace else, I had enough of all your types who come down here and nearly fvcking die on our "little island hills". Guess you are slow  I've been there, done that and what you climb in 5 miles we do in 1, we have no room, our trails/roads go straight up, but you're mroe than welcome to bring all that "real mountain" climbing skill down here and give it a whirl - haven't had the pleasure of secretly smiling and laughing at someone with that sort of atitude for a while 



jeffscott said:


> Your where? the caribbean somewhere, hmmm,
> 
> I am where? the Eastern Slopes of the Rockies hmmm
> 
> Guess i am slow.


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## mikerod87 (Apr 22, 2009)

I started this thread b/c I kept hearing creaking by my chain that was 6 mo old. 

Needless to say, I hadn't changed the chain and today it broke. 

Where there is smoke there is fire.

If your hear something anywhere on the bike chances are somethings gonna go!!!

I appreciate everyone's comments. I've learned a few things.


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

I learned a few things too.

Jeffscott is an arrogant prick.

Ken in KC is a level-headed dude.

LynNx lives in the islands.

And I am both an idiot and a bad mechanic.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

mikerod87 said:


> I started this thread b/c I kept hearing creaking by my chain that was 6 mo old.
> 
> Needless to say, I hadn't changed the chain and today it broke.
> 
> ...


Not knowing your shifting habits, or whether you jammed the chain recently with trail debris, or recent chain repairs (and how you did them), hard to say what the problem might be other than lube/chain longevity, too. There's nothing inherently wrong with that chain...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Jeffscott has convinced me




































































that he's rationalizing.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*You take that back!*



apat13 said:


> I learned a few things too.
> 
> Jeffscott is an arrogant prick.
> 
> ...


Take it back! I'm an a-hole and prick. Ask anyone here, they'll tell you so.


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

Ken in KC said:


> Take it back! I'm an a-hole and prick. Ask anyone here, they'll tell you so.


Sorry man, no such luck. You have established a clear history of rational and informed posts. You may not like it, but I can only judge you by your behavior. Unless you decide to start making up numbers and twisting other people's arguments I am afraid this isn't going to change. You made your bed, you get to sleep in it.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Stick around....*



apat13 said:


> Sorry man, no such luck. You have established a clear history of rational and informed posts. You may not like it, but I can only judge you by your behavior. Unless you decide to start making up numbers and twisting other people's arguments I am afraid this isn't going to change. You made your bed, you get to sleep in it.


Stick around, I'll eventually show my stripes...


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