# The Kool Aid didnt taste as good as I thought it would



## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

Rode my first 29er this morning.. and I felt the technical climbs were more difficult than with my 26er.... I guess I am one of the weird ones... 

My 29er is bascially same the bike/quality/configuration as my 26er (except the wheels of course)... 

Definitely the 29er is more comfortable at absorbing bumps at high speed flats... But I really don't care about that...


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## bigbadwulff (Jan 18, 2012)

Turning will be slower but you will soon forget about that. Plain climbing should be a lot better.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

First rides on new bikes are usually awkward..especially when going from 26 to 29er.

.02


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## Eazy_E (Sep 30, 2011)

You know how weird it feels to get a new toothbrush that's different from the one you were using? After the third time, you don't even notice it. I think it'd be like that.


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## J3SSEB (Jun 1, 2009)

Eazy_E said:


> You know how weird it feels to get a new toothbrush that's different from the one you were using? After the third time, you don't even notice it. I think it'd be like that.


Hehe, that's a good analogy. 29er is not for everyone, but I would give it a few more rides before you give up on it.

Cheers!


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## SnowMongoose (Feb 18, 2007)

Clearly you need to cut your losses and sell the 29er to me for a song.
Sorry you wasted your time, glad you figured this out so quickly!


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## omalley72 (Jun 7, 2012)

I started with a 29. While the climbs were easier and it was faster, I didn't like how sluggish the steering response was. Where I ride it's mostly single track with lots of switchbacks. I ended up returning the 29 and picking up a specialized camber. Yes, the climbs are a little more challenging compared to the 29 but I really like how responsive the front end is.


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## Oldfatbaldguy (Nov 4, 2010)

Some makers try to pass on ad hype about subtly changing geometry and components to optimize the response for each wheel size. I bought a new Rocky Mtn 29er hardtail last year after riding both 26 and 29" versions

there were slight differences; the 26 was lighter and more nimble, but demanded more of the rider in technical stuff. The 29er gave me the impression of being a little sluggish when I was fresh, but more forgiving towards the end of the ride. At 54 years of age, I chose the 29er. 

What I'm not taking into account is the tires. The 29'er came with WTB tires, the 26 with Kenda, and I think most of us would agree that tires matter.


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

SnowMongoose said:


> Clearly you need to cut your losses and sell the 29er to me for a song.
> Sorry you wasted your time, glad you figured this out so quickly!


sorry to kill your buzz  but I bought it at REI... so if anyone is taking a loss it will be REI... not me...


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## TheSchwagman (Nov 1, 2005)

Bought a wagon wheeler last year for a 100 mile race. Put it up for sale shortly there after. Back on my 26 for this year's race. Do not like the slow handling. The one thing I liked was that with the rear axle up and back relative to my high saddle position, steep climbs were doable without honching up the nose of the seat. No koolaid for me, thank you very much.


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## cigarlover (Oct 24, 2011)

As much as I love to ride !!! When I take my 26 incher off the wall and take it for a trip on the trail- I almost would rather not ride at all being on my 26. It climbs awfully slow, carries no momentum, and overall just feels like a slug moving through the woods. I love my 29er not because it's the new thing to have- but because it just blows my 26 bike away :thumbsup:

Before having my 29er I used to think my 26" Fisher was awesome and it was a good bike. But not as good as my 29 


26" or 29 "- Ride what you like- cause that's what I'm doing:ciappa:


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## OdinOrion (Jul 22, 2010)

Question, how tall are you guys? I don't mean this in an insulting manner, I am just curious.


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

I am 6'0" I flucuate between 205 and 210 lbs.... longer arms than usual...

I am the perfect candidate for a 29er... go figure...


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## FX4 (Jun 12, 2012)

I own both and I definitely prefer my 26er over the 29er while riding single track. I use the 29er when doing more XC kind of things.


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## carverboy (Sep 5, 2009)

I split the difference. Went 650b three years ago. At 5'8" with 30"inseam 29 just did not work for me.
The 650b took a couple rides to get used to but now I could not see riding anything else.


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

FX4 said:


> I own both and I definitely prefer my 26er over the 29er while riding single track. I use the 29er when doing more XC kind of things.


I agree... at least after my first try...

my ride this morning included 
-jeep trail
-pavement
-technical climbs
-non technical climbs
-technical flats/gentle-climbs

29er much better on the jeep trails... but I was not having fun on the single track... btw I am in the Arizona desert...


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## OdinOrion (Jul 22, 2010)

brianmayeux said:


> I am 6'0" I flucuate between 205 and 210 lbs.... longer arms than usual...
> 
> I am the perfect candidate for a 29er... go figure...


That's what I was wondering, I'm 6'2" and around 200lbs with a pretty long wing span. 29'ers seem to make more sense. At my size, I feel terms like "light and nimble" begin to fall out of the equation, but it may not be true in all cases.


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## bigbadwulff (Jan 18, 2012)

6'1". Looong upper body. Actually a 32" inseam and that tall. Getting stretched out on a 29er has been a godsend for me. But the steering is quite a bit slower for sure.


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## zyzbot (Dec 19, 2003)

Shocker said:


> Bought a wagon wheeler last year for a 100 mile race. Put it up for sale shortly there after. Back on my 26 for this year's race. Do not like the slow handling. The one thing I liked was that with the rear axle up and back relative to my high saddle position, steep climbs were doable without honching up the nose of the seat. No koolaid for me, thank you very much.


Plenty of koolaid for you. You just drink the 26 inch kind.


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## mikeridesabike (Feb 16, 2009)

My 26er is very slow going uphill and downhill. Also gets dropped on the flats. I test drove a Niner RIP 9 a few weeks ago. It was also slow going uphill. I have a 650B hardtail. It crawls up hills. 

Obviously, somebody needs to come up with a new wheel size, as I am slow on all 3 of the current options. No way that it's just me


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## DHinFool (Mar 21, 2004)

mikeridesabike said:


> My 26er is very slow going uphill and downhill. Also gets dropped on the flats. I test drove a Niner RIP 9 a few weeks ago. It was also slow going uphill. I have a 650B hardtail. It crawls up hills.
> 
> Obviously, somebody needs to come up with a new wheel size, as I am slow on all 3 of the current options. No way that it's just me


This way a great responce...and makes the point that it is more about the rider than the bike.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

DHinFool said:


> This way a great responce...and makes the point that it is more about the rider than the bike.


The OP stated that the "29er was more difficult to climb with than his 26er", so apparently the bike does matter which was the whole point of his post.

Same "engine" on two different bikes does not always yield the same performance.


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## DHinFool (Mar 21, 2004)

rydbyk said:


> The OP stated that the "29er was more difficult to climb with than his 26er", so apparently the bike does matter which was the whole point of his post.
> 
> Same "engine" on two different bikes does not always yield the same performance.


Thanks buddy...:thumbsup:

I was responding to the guy that said he is slow on every bike he rides, dose not matter the wheel size. That why I quoted him.

And please reread my post, I did not say the same engine on two different bikes would yield the same performance.

I said, that it is more about the rider than the bike.


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## CBizzie (Mar 2, 2011)

zyzbot said:


> Plenty of koolaid for you. You just drink the 26 inch kind.


yup.... 26" = Wyler's


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## TheSchwagman (Nov 1, 2005)

zyzbot said:


> Plenty of koolaid for you. You just drink the 26 inch kind.


:nono: Not so fast there Colonel Klink.  I am in the midst of a budget 275650 build to test. So while I may drink Wyler's, I am middle wheel curious. :ihih:


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

there hasn't been any long term studies on what kool-aid will do and how it will affect your handling. haha. more importantly, let us just drink and be merry!


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## Rockin (Apr 29, 2004)

I just ride my 29ers in flat areas that have straight trails so that I don't notice any problems.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

53119 said:


> there hasn't been any long term studies on what kool-aid will do and how it will affect your handling. haha. more importantly, let us just drink and be merry!


wait...so it's not "lets drink and get married"?


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## ghglenn (Jan 26, 2012)

I had the same experience....bad 29er Kool Aid. Road a buddies 18lbs Carbon Fiber 29er HT and it felt like I was riding a bus. Mind you I ride a 32 lbs 6" all-mountain FS, and I prefer technical singletrack, less "Spin" type rides. So the comparison is moot, but I expected it to feel more nimble, and you could feel the front wheel in the bars too much for my taste...like riding a bike 26" with a steering stabilizer on it. Just real odd, maybe I am stuck with little wheels. I hope to try out a SC Tallboy soon and see how it tastes....we shall see.


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## KiwiJohn (Feb 6, 2007)

A Tallboy is what put me off them. So sluggish going up hill compared to a Butcher on the same hill. Bigger wheels require more energy to accelerate unless you pony up a lot of dosh for something bling. But then 26ers will still be lighter for the money. 
I'll stick with my SB66 & old school Ti HT.


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## Kanik (Sep 28, 2011)

I'm 5'9" 135lbs and I have just as much fun on my SS HT 29er as I do on my 5" FS 26er. 

Both feel fast and nimble to me, and besides when it gets too steep, I feel like I can climb better when I'm standing on those pedals and holding onto the wide bars it has. It's so nice for when the ride is about pedaling. 

I love descending, though, and FS is great for that. I feel faster and more nimble on it, but I think thats partly because I can be on the saddle for a lot of it, and just motor through flowy trail. 

It's great to have a choice of rides! Gears and squish make it easy and fun, singlespeed makes it tough and satisfying.


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## timk125 (Jun 28, 2010)

Just ride your bikes.


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## dstepper (Feb 28, 2004)

Are we really still having this conversation? Do you really think that your experience on a bike is going to influence my new bike purchase. Ride what you like, I hope you make the right purchase for you. To me buying a bike thinking you can return it to REI is wrong. So easy to demo bikes before purchase why would you purposely inflect financial damage on any person or a company.


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## FX4 (Jun 12, 2012)

Dstepper, other people's experiences do help a person to make an informed decision. I want to hear about this or any other experience both good and bad or even just personal observations. Honestly I would only own my 26er if I had been a little more informed. The 29er isn't bad and I do ride it a good amount. I just like my 26er better for single track. It's just more fun for me and I am tall, 6'1". I can't speak to others opinions but I really would have like to read more objective opinions than 29ers (or anything else) are the cat's behind.


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

dstepper said:


> Are we really still having this conversation? Do you really think that your experience on a bike is going to influence my new bike purchase. Ride what you like, I hope you make the right purchase for you. To me buying a bike thinking you can return it to REI is wrong. So easy to demo bikes before purchase why would you purposely inflect financial damage on any person or a company.


Wow, didn't know I would piss someone off so much... Or at least the tone of this response is leading me to believe you are upset...

I took the bike on one ride (and only one ride) to test it out, the ride involved a variety of riding terrain... After that, I made my decision... Sorry, but the parking lot doesn't do it for me... REI doesn't have demo bikes so what do you suppose I should do ? Demo a bike from another shop ?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Give it a few weeks, if after that it doesn't work, take advantage of REIs generous return policy! You don't ride a 29er exactly the same as a 26er and it will take a little adjustment on your part to the same things on it. After a bit, it will take the same adjustments to go back to a 26, if I rode a 26 today it would feel v. awkward!


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## abeckstead (Feb 29, 2012)

I bought a Giant Trance and sold my XC 29er HT... But I didn't need to start my own thread about.  

Fwiw I'm 6'4" and I enjoy riding the Trance way more on every type of terrain. While the 29er did fit my body, I just felt clumsy on it. I had to mash over everything and couldn't pick my way through anything technical. The trance allows me to ride either way. 

29er FS bikes felt better than a HT but I still felt I had to mash mash mash. I like being able to choose which I need for a given obstacle. I'm just in it for fun and the 26" trail bike satisfies that itch better. Ymmv


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## Harvo (Dec 30, 2003)

brianmayeux said:


> Wow, didn't know I would piss someone off so much... Or at least the tone of this response is leading me to believe you are upset...


Of course it will piss off a bunch of people who bought into the Kool Aid hype and are now trying to justify having a bike they aren't totally happy with. 

(No offence to anyone... just poking)


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## lew s lugnut (Oct 26, 2005)

After having the luxury of trying many different versions of both 26 and 29, I have found my sweet spot. I have a 26 F/S with 150mm up front and 140 in back, a fully rigid heavy steel 29er and a respectable weight 29 H/T with 100mm fork. 

All three bikes see the same trails. Depending on my mood, or which bike is rideable will make my decision. I do ride each one differently but for the most part ride the same lines with all three.

My computer tells me the fully rigid is my fastest bike, but I get worked over on it. I do like the immediate response of the fully rigid in slower, technical stop and go stuff as well. In general I have found the 9ers to climb a little better, but ultimately I see more difference depending on my personal state each day. Even when I am in my best physical shape, I do notice my performance variating according to mental state as well.

Have fun everyone and ride whatever 'ya got!


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## arkon11 (Jul 26, 2009)

I have nothing against 29er's, I just can't imagine why anyone would want to ride one over a 26" bike on anything but paved paths, and fireroads.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

arkon11 said:


> I have nothing against 29er's, I just can't imagine why anyone would want to ride one over a 26" bike on anything but paved paths, and fireroads.


Your imagination sucks.


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## SummitAP (Jun 14, 2007)

I got a screaming deal on an awesome 26er frame. So I bought it. Even though I wanted a 29er.

In 3-4 years I'll prolly get a 27.5er or a 29er.


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## weaverwins (Dec 28, 2008)

arkon11 said:


> I have nothing against 29er's, I just can't imagine why anyone would want to ride one over a 26" bike on anything but paved paths, and fireroads.


I come from bmx and thought the same until i rode one... Suprisingly it jumped and handled awesome on top of shredding our rocky local terrain. Just sold my 26 5inch and getting some kool aid


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

arkon11 said:


> I have nothing against 29er's, I just can't imagine why anyone would want to ride one over a 26" bike on anything but paved paths, and fireroads.


I can, b/c its fun to motor by people that can't imagine it can happen :thumbsup:


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## peanut09 (Apr 13, 2005)

I tested out a bunch of 29'ers and didn't find one that I really liked. I didn't like the feel of being higher off the ground and up hills it felt like you had to lean forward a lot more. Wasn't for me so I bought a new 26 and am happy with that. I honestly do not think 29ers are for everyone. 
Ref above comment on REI. I also think it is kind of a crappy thing to do. Plenty of shops rent demo's and add I bet if you spent enough time just zipping it around in the parking lot you could get a basic idea if you were even interested in it or not. 
I spent 2 months testing out all kinds of bikes before I bought mine and figure if I end up not liking it I will have to post it up for sale and taking a little loss on a bad choice. Just my .02


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I don't think it's a crappy thing to do, it's what the return policy is for and it's why you pay full price at REI. Story. Buddy of mine bought a Marin 29er at REi, after about 6 mos., the fork (cheap RS Dart) developed a lot of play. He took it back in to have the fork looked at and REI decided to just refund his $900 instead of repairing the fork. I wouldn't feel bad returning a bike to REI if you don't end up liking it, that is the point of buying from them.


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## Trail Addict (Nov 20, 2011)

brianmayeux said:


> Rode my first 29er this morning.. and I felt the technical climbs were more difficult than with my 26er.... I guess I am one of the weird ones...
> 
> My 29er is bascially same the bike/quality/configuration as my 26er (except the wheels of course)...
> 
> Definitely the 29er is more comfortable at absorbing bumps at high speed flats... But I really don't care about that...


Train harder. I climb way faster with my 29er than my 26er.


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

Interesting because I was considering drinking the same Kool-Aid. I am an experienced rider who has only ridden rigid frames. Also, most of what I ride is tight singletrack with a lot of short, steep climbs and descents. Still, the 29er seems intriguing. Perhaps simply adding a suspension fork frame to the fleet is all I need, eh?


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## Mikecito (Jun 2, 2007)

abeckstead said:


> I bought a Giant Trance and sold my XC 29er HT... But I didn't need to start my own thread about.
> 
> Fwiw I'm 6'4" and I enjoy riding the Trance way more on every type of terrain. While the 29er did fit my body, I just felt clumsy on it. I had to mash over everything and couldn't pick my way through anything technical. The trance allows me to ride either way.
> 
> 29er FS bikes felt better than a HT but I still felt I had to mash mash mash. I like being able to choose which I need for a given obstacle. I'm just in it for fun and the 26" trail bike satisfies that itch better. Ymmv


I'm 6'2" just bought a 29er HT and my Trance is up for sale, so cosmic balance has been restored 

My Trance is a blast for about 20% of my riding (downhill), but the 29er is just so much better and faster on the climbs and rooty singletrack (for me) that I just prefer the wagon wheels. 
Before the Trance I had a 21" heavy Rockhopper 29er that felt like a bus, but this time around I went with a Scott Scale that has shorter chain stays and a slacker headtube. It's also quite a bit lighter, so it feels just as flickable as the 26 to me.

If funds allowed, I'd just keep both!


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

A lot of great responses... Thanks everyone...

btw, I found an excellent summarization of 26 vs 29
Ending The Debate: 29er vs. 26" Mountain Bike | Bike198

who is 198 ?

And for those who care, I am still working with REI to get a geometry that will work for me.. .Also a better tire for loose rock... Stay tuned... I think its likely with the right geometry and tire, there will be a 29er out there for my taste...


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## HAL 9000 (Apr 4, 2008)

brianmayeux said:


> but I was not having fun on the single track.


big question?

do you have the bike set up exactly as you had your 26" bike?

i'm talking about stem height, length and distance from back of saddle to front of stem?

i've seen many folks hate 29ers because they are trying to set everything up like their 26" bike and it just dosen't work.


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

HAL 9000 said:


> big question?
> 
> do you have the bike set up exactly as you had your 26" bike?
> 
> .


In reference to my first post, no, the setup was quite different on the 29er, REI and myself are working to get a 29er closer to my 26er geometry... we will have that resolved by this coming Saturday... stay tuned... (if you are interested  )


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## Eazy_E (Sep 30, 2011)

Is this the Paradise Valley REI? I'm fo sho gonna creep by there on garage sale day now.


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

Eazy_E said:


> Is this the Paradise Valley REI? I'm fo sho gonna creep by there on garage sale day now.


yes, paradise valley one... btw my initial Scott Scale (in the photos posted in AZ forum) was/is an XL frame... If felt good in the parking lot.... We are going to try the same bike with a L frame and longer stem (what my 26er is).... Also waiting for a Marin 29er to come in so I can do the parking lot ride on two different Large models... Really trying to do as much trying out before buying as I can... Bottom line however is I'll need to try it out on the trail before I really know if its a bike I want to keep... :yesnod:


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## Trail Addict (Nov 20, 2011)

All I have to say is 29ers are cool and only cool people ride them. The rest of you are lames.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

arkon11 said:


> I have nothing against 29er's, I just can't imagine why anyone would want to ride one over a 26" bike on anything but paved paths, and fireroads.


You forgot sand. 29'ers are the weapon of choice for those who prefer to ride in deep sand.


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## Trail Addict (Nov 20, 2011)

DLd said:


> You forgot sand. 29'ers are the weapon of choice for those who prefer to ride in deep sand.


No.

Fat bikes are.


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## joeinchi (Jun 19, 2010)

Trail Addict said:


> All I have to say is 29ers are cool and only cool people ride them. The rest of you are lames.


:lol:



Barheet said:


> Interesting because I was considering drinking the same Kool-Aid. I am an experienced rider who has only ridden rigid frames. Also, most of what I ride is tight singletrack with a lot of short, steep climbs and descents. Still, the 29er seems intriguing.* Perhaps simply adding a suspension fork frame to the fleet is all I need, eh?*


I think you need to make the leap to a 29er or full suspenson to realize a substantial difference. I frequently switch up between a hardtail aluminum and rigid steel 26er for XC rides and the differences are not all that great. On something a bit more technical or aggressive, sure, a long-travel fork would be nice. Depends a lot on where you ride.

I also ride with a group and have a bit of _squish envy_ since most have full susp and one guy went Epic 29er. They just sit there and friggin' float across the chatter .... while I get a nice lower-back jolt if I'm not paying close attention. I asked my bud with the Epic, aside from climbing, if he ever gets out of the saddle. And he actually needed a second to think about it.

The 29er option is definitely intriguing, though.


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## likeaboss (Jan 1, 2012)

cigarlover said:


> As much as I love to ride !!! When I take my 26 incher off the wall and take it for a trip on the trail- I almost would rather not ride at all being on my 26. It climbs awfully slow, carries no momentum, and overall just feels like a slug moving through the woods. I love my 29er not because it's the new thing to have- but because it just blows my 26 bike away :thumbsup:
> 
> Before having my 29er I used to think my 26" Fisher was awesome and it was a good bike. But not as good as my 29
> 
> 26" or 29 "- Ride what you like- cause that's what I'm doing:ciappa:


+1 on this. I use my old 26" Paragon for city riding and it is almost painful. The slow steering issue is temporary. I am just as nimble now on my 29er than I was on my Paragon.

My wife rented(reluctantly but I wanted her to experience it) a 29er at Kingdom Trails last week and she loved it. Bought her a new Fisher that night at the LBS.


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## ligniteminer (May 10, 2012)

I love my Hammer 29er, my last MTB was a tomac revolver and I loved the feeling of floating over everything but I have really enjoyed the way a hard tail 29er rides, I feel kinda like this:

Monster Bike crushes a car at Gosford. - YouTube


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

Trail Addict said:


> No.
> 
> Fat bikes are.


Ah yes, I stand corrected. Fat bike > 29er > 26er IRT sand.


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## FX4 (Jun 12, 2012)

It will be interesting to see his final conclusion. My 26 FS (Fuel EX7) does most things better than my 29er HT (Mamba). I realize they are not quite the same thing but the Fuel is much faster downhill and much more nimble. It doesn't climb as well or go over large logs as well as the Mamba but it is a ton more fun to ride IMO. If it's technical or challenging I want the Fuel under me. I tend to trail ride the Mamba with my wife riding logging trails and rails to trails kind of rides. It's a good bike for that kind of stuff and the 26er kind of sucks just covering a lot of ground. Like I said before if I had to have just one it would be the 26FS.


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

I found a demo bike here in town, Ritchey 29er frame with high end components, 25 lb bike in large frame, hardtail.... only $40/day... very good deal for 24 hour rental... 

Well, if I don't like this bike I'll just stick with my 26er... If I like it, Ill move forward with my REI purchase... Probably the Scott Scale Team...


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## Trail Addict (Nov 20, 2011)

DLd said:


> Ah yes, I stand corrected. Fat bike > 29er > 26er IRT sand.


However I must add that 29ers do indeed perform very well in sand, with the right tire of course. :thumbsup:


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

brianmayeux said:


> I found a demo bike here in town, Ritchey 29er frame with high end components, 25 lb bike in large frame, hardtail.... only $40/day... very good deal for 24 hour rental...


Slippery Pig?

One of these days I will need to rent a 29er just to see what all the fuss is about. I will probably wait till the fall when I ride one back to back with 26" hardtail.


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

''that kool aid didnt taste to good'' isnt that the last thing all those people at jim jones's holiday ranch said ??


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## bigbadwulff (Jan 18, 2012)

Got nothing against those that like 26" bikes. Heck I like them and 650B and whatever else may come along. I even like my 29er. I liked my old Stingray too. Wish I still had it!


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## HAL 9000 (Apr 4, 2008)

bigbadwulff said:


> I liked my old Stingray too. Wish I still had it!


Ditto!

I sold off my last "Krate" bike a few years back my 71' Grey Ghost i had sold a Pea Picker and a Lemon Peeler earlier but kept the ghost because of how rare it was till i was offered a crazy amount for it.

what i spent the money on i can't remeber but i sure regret selling it now


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## ligniteminer (May 10, 2012)

Grey Ghosts are one of the most beautiful bikes ever built.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

I spit the stuff out.

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/fresh-kool-aid-[o]-491856.html

Have since given it another taste with a Banshee Paradox lent from an injured friend for a few days. Similar results. Do not want. They aren't for everyone.


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## gridtalker (Dec 7, 2006)

brianmayeux said:


> Rode my first 29er this morning.. and I felt the technical climbs were more difficult than with my 26er.... I guess I am one of the weird ones...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The first time is always a little weird or should I say different


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

*The Kool Aid tastes much better now*

Yesterday I walked into a LBS just to check out some tires.... Bike Den here in Phoenix... No intentions of buying a bike... There was a Cannondal SL 2 29er for a great price in a large frame... So it followed me out the door...

The dimensions of this bike (versus the first attempt) were MUCH better.. I rode it this morning and now I know why the 29 inch wheel is so popular.. my first attempt was on an XL frame... And I wasn't a fan of the tires on that XL Scott Scale...

It was just a matter of getting the correct geometry... Sorry for all the fuss

Ill get some photos posted today or tomrrow of the new bike..


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

i add a little malt liquor to my kool aid because im a badass.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Yeah, I've ridden several 29" wheel bikes and was a bit underwhelmed considering all the hype. I felt they did some things well and others not so well, just like bikes with 26" wheels. It wasn't enough to make me want to go out and buy one when my present bike serves me well. Maybe when I'm really shopping for a new bike I'll take another look or try a 650 wheel bike. 

Until then the Kool-aid is OK, but not over the top exciting.


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## Univega777 (Jun 27, 2012)

put a 29er rim in the back and a 26er in the front. problem solved.


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

2nd ride


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

VBrakesAndBarEnds said:


> In case you haven't realized I changed my username from brianmayeux to VBrakesAndBarEnds....
> 
> Did my 2nd ride on the Cannondale 29er (SL2)... Love the bike.... the control is getting easier with practice.. .and climbing is good... Still the 26er beats the 29er in pure acceleration... Only thing to do is to own both a 26er and 29er...
> 
> I know I know.. just ride... and that is what I am doing.. .and intend to do many times in the future...


Wait...what? You changed your mind AND username? What flavor kool-aide is that??


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## iamspartacus (May 21, 2012)

Confusing thread.....but I dare ask my question.............when people describe their like for the 29er over the 26", is that based on a hardtail perspective? I rode them all before buying, and my 26" FS bike killed all the 29er HT. Unfortunately, I couldn't afford the 29er FS, and I am not sold on 27.5 yet.......as I am onl 5'8". I liked the 29ers HT's, but I couldn't justify it over a FS bike. Just my 2 cents.


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## Univega777 (Jun 27, 2012)

i was at a bike shop this afternoon. im 6'1" 250lb and an XL 29er was too big for me.:eekster: you would have to be like at least 6'3" to ride one of those right. or have a really large inseem. i tried one of the L 29ers. seems like it fit great. i was messing with the forks. man i want a nice fork so bad. they are so cushy and nice.


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

rydbyk said:


> Wait...what? You changed your mind AND username? What flavor kool-aide is that??


Not sure what flavor... but I had a hell of a time making up my mind what I wanted... Also, the supply of 29ers in large frame size is very low right now... (until the 2013's come out) which made my decision much harder...

So happy I lucked out on that bike

As far as my name change... I never should have used my real name in the first place...


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

iamspartacus said:


> Confusing thread.....but I dare ask my question.............when people describe their like for the 29er over the 26", is that based on a hardtail perspective? I rode them all before buying, and my 26" FS bike killed all the 29er HT. Unfortunately, I couldn't afford the 29er FS, and I am not sold on 27.5 yet.......as I am onl 5'8". I liked the 29ers HT's, but I couldn't justify it over a FS bike. Just my 2 cents.


That is how my perspective is derived..HT.


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

new bike


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

OP, have you considered swapping your front and rear tires?

Most riders run the more aggressive tire up front for cornering and braking traction, and the smaller knobbed tire on the rear for better acceleration.

Nice looking bike, btw. Glad you found something you're happy with.


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## HAL 9000 (Apr 4, 2008)

VBrakesAndBarEnds said:


> My new bike. 4 rides already logged and I am very pleased...


 one would think having the kenda small block 8 in the rear and the kenda nevegal in the front would be a better combo...but hey ride what you like


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## Dougie (Aug 29, 2004)

Trail Addict said:


> All I have to say is 29ers are ghey and only people that lack proper technical skills ride them. The rest of you are awesome.


Fixed it for you.


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

HAL 9000 said:


> one would think having the kenda small block 8 in the rear and the kenda nevegal in the front would be a better combo...but hey ride what you like


I only bought one nevegal just to test it out in the rear, I feel it does better in loose sand and rock which is mostly my problem spot... so the nevegal stays in the rear...

thanks everyone for the suggestion.. Ill be putting a nevegal on the front now..

btw I live in the sonoran desert... Arizona...

Really whats going to improve me is better conditioning and practice  not the tires... 
but again, the suggestion of putting a nevegal on the front is well taken..


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

If you like the bite of the Nevegal, check out the Excavator. It's got tons more bite. I used to be on the rider support program, but now that I'm off...I still buy the Excavator full price. Another good setup is Nevegal rear and Excavator front. Gotta have that extra bite up front so you don't wash out and eat rocks, lol.

Sent from my daggum phone because I have no life.


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

chelboed said:


> If you like the bite of the Nevegal, check out the Excavator. It's got tons more bite. I used to be on the rider support program, but now that I'm off...I still buy the Excavator full price. Another good setup is Nevegal rear and Excavator front. Gotta have that extra bite up front so you don't wash out and eat rocks, lol.
> 
> Sent from my daggum phone because I have no life.


I can't find the excavator in 29..... ?? maybe not looking in the right place... I tried ebay and amazon...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

VBrakesAndBarEnds said:


> I can't find the excavator in 29..... ?? maybe not looking in the right place... I tried ebay and amazon...


Crap dude...I'm sorry. I didn't read the whole thread. Excavator is 26 exclusive.

Sent from my daggum phone because I have no life.


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

chelboed said:


> Crap dude...I'm sorry. I didn't read the whole thread. Excavator is 26 exclusive.
> 
> Sent from my daggum phone because I have no life.


no problem ... with my screen name its hard to believe a retro grouch like myself has a 29er.... really Im just a 40 something with some disposable income...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Lol...I'm the opposite. Sharing the same passion but on a single income. Wouldn't trade it for any babysitter in the world though. I'll still have time later for carbon, lol.

Sent from my daggum phone because I have no life.


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## joeinchi (Jun 19, 2010)

Nice bike and great info. Thanks for sharing the journey! :thumbsup:

I noticed your saddle was tipped down a bit, V-. Is that your normal riding position? I started messing with that a little and found that less drop was a better answer. 

I have shortish arms, so my bar height needs to be even with my saddle height. I still have a relatively aggressive 45-degree bend from the waist but sitting "in" a level saddle and getting that extra support easily offsets any style poins I may have lost with the zero drop setup.

Regardless. Enjoy your new ride!


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

joeinchi said:


> Nice bike and great info. Thanks for sharing the journey! :thumbsup:
> 
> I noticed your saddle was tipped down a bit, V-. Is that your normal riding position? I started messing with that a little and found that less drop was a better answer.
> 
> ...


My arms are longer than normal... The seat tip is like that because I need room for my package... I don't see how any guy would want their seat shoved up into that area... but then again maybe my package is larger than normal... I wouldn't know the answer to that question...


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## joeinchi (Jun 19, 2010)

VBrakesAndBarEnds said:


> ... but then again maybe my package is larger than normal... I wouldn't know the answer to that question...


Uh ... yeah. That wouldn't be my area of expertise either. :lol:



VBrakesAndBarEnds said:


> I don't see how any guy would want their seat shoved up into that area...


Agreed. No one wants the discomfort of a probing saddle nose. But a level saddle doesn't necessarily mean "crotchular" discomfort.

The key to living with a level saddle is an arched back, specifically, hip rotation. When you rotate your _lower_ hip forward, you raise the position of your package so that it simply rests on the saddle nose. There's no squishing. And the move also reduces negative force on your upstroke, thereby increasing pedaling efficiency, and eliminates pressure on the buttocks and hands due to a dipped saddle nose.

Jaroslav Kulhavy


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

All I know is if I had my seat like that guy in the picture and I was sitting like him, the package squish would be unbearable for me...

Ive been riding with my saddle like this since 1992, and no way am I going to change now... You may not think its comfortable, but for me its the only way its comfortable... 

You have to realize not all body shapes are the same... it could be my weiner is just lower down the torso.. or whatever... doesnt really matter... whats comfortable for me is what I am going to do..


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## joeinchi (Jun 19, 2010)

Oh, no disagreement, V. What works for you is certainly all that matters. 

I was simply answering the question as to why some of us want the saddle nose "up in that area" and how we get around the potential discomfort. And for what it's worth, the World XC Champ, Jaroslav, actually tilts his saddle down a bit more than most, so it's clearly not a signficant performance issue.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

VBrakesAndBarEnds said:


> All I know is if I had my seat like that guy in the picture and I was sitting like him, the package squish would be unbearable for me...
> 
> Ive been riding with my saddle like this since 1992, and no way am I going to change now... You may not think its comfortable, but for me its the only way its comfortable...
> 
> You have to realize not all body shapes are the same... it could be my weiner is just lower down the torso.. or whatever... doesnt really matter... whats comfortable for me is what I am going to do..


I never see anyone that rides a ton with the seat angle similar to yours. It puts undo pressure on your wrists. I do understand that we are all built a little different, but still...

There is no need to slant it down like that with a proper fit.

You will constantly be fighting gravity as your butt/torso wants to slid forward towards the bars.

Perhaps you have just gotten used to it and now have wrists of steel


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## HAL 9000 (Apr 4, 2008)

rydbyk said:


> I never see anyone that rides a ton with the seat angle similar to yours. It puts undo pressure on your wrists.


just assume that EVERYONE on here just started riding yesterday.

you will drive yourself crazy trying to critique peoples bike set up.

the pie plate and winkies are a dead giveaway of noobness.


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

I don't mind taking advice for fit... Actually I did recently reduce the distance from my seat to handlebars.. And that has helped... 

But my nutsack is more important than my wrists.. and I have never had pain in my wrists or any other discomfort there... Guys.. it is possible that my jewels are just a bit larger than normal.. I don't want to have a tmi moment... just take a hint would ya ??


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

VBrakesAndBarEnds said:


> I don't mind taking advice for fit... Actually I did recently reduce the distance from my seat to handlebars.. And that has helped...
> 
> But my nutsack is more important than my wrists.. and I have never had pain in my wrists or any other discomfort there... Guys.. it is possible that my jewels are just a bit larger than normal.. I don't want to have a tmi moment... just take a hint would ya ??


I guess there are no pro or experienced cyclists in the history of man that have jewels your size...haha..ok..


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

VBrakesAndBarEnds said:


> I don't mind taking advice for fit... Actually I did recently reduce the distance from my seat to handlebars.. And that has helped...
> 
> But my nutsack is more important than my wrists.. and I have never had pain in my wrists or any other discomfort there... Guys.. it is possible that my jewels are just a bit larger than normal.. I don't want to have a tmi moment... just take a hint would ya ??


Pics or it didn't happen!

Oh wait, nevermind... no really, nevermind


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## HAL 9000 (Apr 4, 2008)

VBrakesAndBarEnds said:


> Guys.. it is possible that my jewels are just a bit larger than normal..


whatever...Jonah Falcon


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

Speaking of bike fit, geometry etc.... I shortened the distance between my seat and handlebars on my 26er to match my 29er..... this enabled me to reduce the tilt of the seat (on my Haro 26er) a little bit... Wow, what a great change ! I was climbing like a animal this morning... 

The guy who sold me my 29er made that suggestion.... I have been riding a very long time.. and I was just always used to being hunched over... Also I had a 130mm stem on my 26er... I swaped that out for a 100mm stem... much more control on the front now... 

Ill see if can change the tilt on my 29er just a little bit... but not so much so I feel like my nuts are in my throat... 

So yes you can teach an old dog new tricks...


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

VBrakesAndBarEnds said:


> Speaking of bike fit, geometry etc.... I shortened the distance between my seat and handlebars on my 26er to match my 29er..... this enabled me to reduce the tilt of the seat (on my Haro 26er) a little bit... Wow, what a great change ! I was climbing like a animal this morning...
> 
> The guy who sold me my 29er made that suggestion.... I have been riding a very long time.. and I was just always used to being hunched over... Also I had a 130mm stem on my 26er... I swaped that out for a 100mm stem... much more control on the front now...
> 
> ...


Well, only old dogs who can drop their ego and listen...ha. Hope it works out for you. Again, I am guessing that once you have the proper fit, the saddle will be pretty darn level and there will be no issues with jewel crushing.

Plus, leveling the saddle, ditching those reflectors and slamming the stem will make you look more "pro" which will make you faster. Actually, not necessarily, but you will at least look legit.


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

HAL 9000 said:


> whatever...Jonah Falcon


I didn't know who this is...looked him up on wikipedia... the combination of my runner's high right now and reading about the airport incident... has given me unstoppable case of the giggles...


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

VBrakesAndBarEnds said:


> ..I have been riding a very long time.. and I was just always used to being hunched over... Also I had a 130mm stem on my 26er... I swaped that out for a 100mm stem... much more control on the front now...
> So yes you can teach an old dog new tricks...


I am looking to the same thing on my 26" hardtail. I have a 130 mm stem and have been playing around with cockpit size. I raised my set 15 mm, lowerd my bars 10 mm and it seem like I had my front end alot more stable on the technical climbs. I can't lower the front bar any more as it on the headset, but I could flip the stem to get a 6 deg drop.

First however I will by trying shorter stems. I have ordered 3 to try 100, 110 and 120. I figure one will work. As for the seat.. my is flat and there is zero pain. Not sure if that is a good thing or bad, but since I am married it mostly irrelevant.


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## joeinchi (Jun 19, 2010)

VBrakesAndBarEnds said:


> So yes you can teach an old dog new tricks...


Jeez, you ended up with a 29er after initially disliking the Kool-Aid. For someone who's been riding 26ers for 20 years, I'd say your ability to learn new tricks is hardly an issue.

I think you might be surprised at the difference little changes can make. I simply raised my bar height 15mm, sat up a just a tad and, voila!, no more _soft tissue_ pressure.

The big change I made was going from a '94 Marin with 100mm stem and 580mm bar to a Fisher with 60mm stem and 680mm bar. Initially, I wanted to chop it down to 580 but after a few spirited downhills with that wide grip, I definitely started to savor the Kool-Aid.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

joeinchi said:


> from a '94 Marin with 100mm stem and 580mm bar to a Fisher with 60mm stem and 680mm bar. Initially, I wanted to chop it down to 580 but after a few spirited downhills with that wide grip, I definitely started to savor the Kool-Aid.


So did the bar & stem change only help on the downhills? How did it help?

I run 130 mm stem and 585 bars and do just fine on the downhills. It is the up hill technical stuff I need to improve on. Lowering my bar by 10 mm seems to have helped, but this is as far down as it will go unless I flip the stem.


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## joeinchi (Jun 19, 2010)

IME, the wider bar allows me to better utilize the large upper body muscles, i.e. shoulders/back vs forearms/biceps/triceps. So you have more strength when applying steering inputs. Descents become less twitchy and more controlled, so confidence and speed follow.

For technical climbing, the change is similar: Better use of the larger muscles. Imagine the difference between rowing with a wide grip vs narrow. You're stronger and it's less fatiguing.

I'm sure you've heard the more common virtues of the wide bar, as well: Better breathing and more bar "leverage." But I also find it easier to lean my bike and flow with the trail with a wider bar. The wider grips puts you "on top" of the bar a bit more and provides easy side-to-side shifts.

But it all comes back to better utilization of the bigger muscles. YMMV


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

joepaz. The reduction of the distance between handlebars and seat really helped give me more power on climbs.. or maybe I was just having a good morning... but I doubt it... Honestly I am 43 years old and I felt like I did some of my best climbing of my life this morning... Of course I think I am in slightly better shape now then when I was in my 20's... (because of weight loss)... 

that reduction also gave me better control in steering... and that was because of the shorter stem... 

as for downhills... I didn't notice a difference... but I really didn't focus on that...


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

VBrakesAndBarEnds said:


> joepaz. The reduction of the distance between handlebars and seat really helped give me more power on climbs.. or maybe I was just having a good morning... but I doubt it... Honestly I am 43 years old and I felt like I did some of my best climbing of my life this morning... Of course I think I am in slightly better shape now then when I was in my 20's... (because of weight loss)...
> 
> that reduction also gave me better control in steering... and that was because of the shorter stem...
> 
> as for downhills... I didn't notice a difference... but I really didn't focus on that...


Do you notice any difference in bar width. I am assuming the bars on your old bike are narrower than on the new 29er?

I do look forward to shortening my stem to see what that does. I am 38 and probably in the best shape of my life. Back when I was riding 8-10 years ago I was with in 5 lbs of where I am now, but I don't believe I had the fitness. Diet is a big change as I am eating better these days.


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## VBrakesAndBarEnds (Jun 24, 2012)

JoePAz said:


> Do you notice any difference in bar width. I am assuming the bars on your old bike are narrower than on the new 29er?
> 
> I do look forward to shortening my stem to see what that does. I am 38 and probably in the best shape of my life. Back when I was riding 8-10 years ago I was with in 5 lbs of where I am now, but I don't believe I had the fitness. Diet is a big change as I am eating better these days.


As far as I can tell the handlebar width is about the same for both bikes... Ill know a bit later in the day when I can check..


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