# New to this MTBR forum but a life long bike rider, older Yes, wiser? So Hi



## 2wheelfun (Jan 8, 2018)

2Wheelfun here wanting to say hi. Been riding all my life pedaling over 100K and done my fair share of century rides as well as week long rides like RAGBRI that can be more compared to Woodstock or Burning Man. Gave up most of my road bike riding after getting run off the road by aggressive drivers and having big gulps thrown at me by passing cars at highway speed that thought they were cooling me off with there ice cubes. I live in Gods country of Colorado and have really fell in love of mountain bike riding single track. I also use to be a dirtbike rider but with over 60 years of abuse my knees let me know now that enough is enough and have just purchased a class 1 Haibike XDURO 7.0 that I hope to have this week. Now I know there will be some purest that is already saying poo poo things but hear me out. You too will get older and the body says, are you nuts? Your brain still says your 20 and your body laughs. Please don't poo poo these bikes till you try a class 1 bike, there is no free ride, you want to go you peddle and it just gives a slight assist that matches your effort up to 20 MPH and when I use to be on my game I use to be able to peddle a whole lot faster then that in my 20s. Now you can tell me I'm nuts and my wife will agree with you.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Welcome! If you ride Rampart often, you're probably local to me.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Ride on! Glad your loving mtbs, and congrats on your new ebike. As long as you’re legal and understand they are different, you’ll enjoy this crazy forum!


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## 2wheelfun (Jan 8, 2018)

Yes I am LOCO oh you said local and yes I am in Colorado Springs and was hoping to ride Rampart before winter sets in? So how is it up there and maybe still seek it in? I have not ridden Rampart in a few years, Last time I rode it was the day it opened up after the Waldo fire. Yes lets get together and ride sometime, I live right by Cheyenne Mountain State Park. I have been off a bike for some time and have to get my riding legs back.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

You're lucky you're by CMSP since it and dome rock are the only legal places you can ride your Haibike around here outside of moto trails. At least it has good riding, I was there on Saturday. Rampart should be clear, there's not much snow in WP right now, although it's CSU and USFS and not ebike legal. 

I hope whoever sold you your bike told you this stuff.....


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Harryman said:


> You're lucky you're by CMSP since it and dome rock are the only legal places you can ride your Haibike around here outside of moto trails. At least it has good riding, I was there on Saturday. Rampart should be clear, there's not much snow in WP right now, although it's CSU and USFS and not ebike legal.
> 
> I hope whoever sold you your bike told you this stuff.....


Harryman, you missed a recent change in El Paso County:

12/13/17 El Paso County
Res 17-350 Amended Park Rules

6.6: OTHER POWER-DRIVEN MOBILITY DEVICES: The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) requires State and Local Governments to make reasonable modifications to policies to allow "other power-driven mobility devices (OPDMD)" to be used by "individuals with mobility disabilities" in areas open to pedestrian use. 28 CFR §35.137 An OPDiviD device is any mobility device powered by batteries, fuel, or other engines-whether or not designed primarily for use by individuals with mobility disabilities--that is used by individuals with mobility disabilities for the purpose of locomotion. This includes, but is not limited to, electric assisted bikes (EABs), motorcycles, golf carts, electronic personal assistance mobility devices (EPAMDs), such as scooters, or any mobility device designed to operate in areas without defined pedestrian routes. Only persons with mobility disabilities shall be allowed to use OPDMDs in County Parks facilities, including parks, open space and trails. A County representative may inquire about use of an OPDMD and request credible assurances that the mobility device is required because of the person's disability. The County representative shall accept a valid State-issued disability parking placard or card, or State-issued proof of disability as credible evidence; however, in lieu of these, a verbal representation of mobility disability, which is not contradicted by observable facts, shall be credible evidence as well. A County representative shall not ask an individual using a wheelchair or OPDMD about the nature and extent of the individual's disability. El Paso County may develop additional policies and procedures to address OPDMDs, as needed.

*6.7 ELECTRICAL ASSISTED BICYCLES: Class I and Class II Electrical Assisted Bicycles may use El Paso County Parks Primary and Secondary trails up to a maximum speed of twenty miles per hour. Class III Electrical Assisted Bicycles are not permitted on any County trail.

*


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

2wheelfun, I bought a Haibike last fall and have been riding Golden Gate State Park, Moab, and some 4x4 roads in NFS near me. I am like you, I have been riding for over 45 years, I have well over 100K miles in me, including, yes, RAGBRAI and Ride The Rockies, as well as Leadville and 45 years of other cycling challenges. I just signed up for the Triple Bypass again as well. I love all forms of cycling, and I love my ebike. If yours has the Bosch drive, be sure they update the firmware to enable eMTB mode. It makes an enormous difference in the rideability of the bike. 

It looks like in the middle of December, El Paso County parks changed their rules and now allow your ebike on their trails. You are lucky, Boulder is about to place a ridiculous blanket ban on any ebike on any county trail, including ten foot wide crushed gravel commuter trails on the plains. Boulder County and City are knee-jerk, shortsighted, insular ideologues, but you knew that already. 

Jeffco is in evaluation mode, I am hoping at the very least that a few JCOS trails around Golden will be opened to Class 1. Centennial Cone and White Ranch would be good. Stay tuned, I guess. 

As far as I can discern, Class 1 ebikes are allowed on all trails where MTBs are allowed in all state parks in Colorado. Golden Gate State Park is freaking awesome. I haven't been to Staunton SP down by Pine, but I have heard it is a cool place as well. I look forward to hitting up as many state parks as I can find that have MTB trails. Colorado State Forest State Park up by Walden is open to ebikes and I am going to ride that for a few days this summer. There are supposed to be some really good trails up there. 

There are some cool, little-known 4x4 roads between Central City and Estes Park that I will be hitting next summer. I've ridden most of them on my motorcycle, the ebike should be fun and work really well on most of them. 

Moab is a mixed bag. Almost all of the newer singletrack trails are off limits to ebikes, but there are still hundreds and hundreds of miles of great rides out there. Nearly all of the original MTB trails in Moab are open, like Slickrock, Poison Spider, Sovereign, Gemini Bridges/Gold Bar, much of Porcupine Rim, Amasa Back, Hurrah Pass, Pritchett Canyon, Little Canyon, Klondike Bluffs, etc. Slickrock is really, really fun on an ebike. A lot of trails I have been avoiding for years because of deep sand are now doable and fun on the ebike, instead of being slogs. There are singletrack trails in the La Sal and Abajo mountains out there that I have ridden on my dirt bike that would be great on the Haibike. 

Have fun. PM me if you want to ride Golden Gate some time. I rode it last weekend, but it looks like this storm that is rolling in today might finally close it for the winter.


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## 2wheelfun (Jan 8, 2018)

I fit the (ADA) criteria of needing a ebike and have a class 1 on the way and hope it gets me a few more years of riding or some medical advancement for my knees comes that is affordable and will work with a track record and not some pie in the sky? For right now there were some great deals on left over 2017 bikes that met my price point that made me pull the trigger. Price for a good quality e-bikes are out there, you just have to look and technology is changing rapidly so what you thought was out of your reach just a year ago is now possibly in reach. Just remember if you want the newest wiz bang bikes out there your going to have to pay big time and what might be being released new today is already obsolete tomorrow. Heck I just bought a full suspension e-bike with top components on it for the same price that a good full suspension non e-bike sold for just a few years ago and was still about 40K less then a pair of knee replacements that could have still given me problems? Hope we get a little more reports on stem cell as well as cost reduction since insurance still don't cover it and can take multi-pal injections at around 10K per injection per knee and have heard that it can take 3 injections and only last 8 years. Kind of makes a e-bike a cost effective alternative?


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Which Haibike did you get? 

You said Xduro 7.0, but which one? They have the downhill, the All Mountain, the FullSeven, FullNine, etc. 

It is pretty amazing, they sell over 25 models of ebike just in the US, many more across the world.


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## 2wheelfun (Jan 8, 2018)

Ordered the 2017 Haibike XDURO allmnt 7.0 will have to see how it fills the bill, looks like I will be selling my specialized FSR that hardly had any rides do to the knees and still looks brand new, I thought of doing a mid-drive conversion on it but figured I would have had more money in it and would have ended up with a class 2 bike that would not meet the class 1 riding area requirements. But will wait till I get some testing miles in and see what kind of range I get.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

2wheelfun said:


> Ordered the 2017 Haibike XDURO allmnt 7.0 will have to see how it fills the bill, looks like I will be selling my specialized FSR that hardly had any rides do to the knees and still looks brand new, I thought of doing a mid-drive conversion on it but figured I would have had more money in it and would have ended up with a class 2 bike that would not meet the class 1 riding area requirements. But will wait till I get some testing miles in and see what kind of range I get.


So far, with my Bosch drive and 500w battery, range has not been an issue on rides up to 3:30. It really all depends on how hard you pedal and how long/steep the climbs are. If you put it in turbo mode and ride a 2000 foot climb, your battery is going to deplete very rapidly. In eco mode, no problem. If I am going out for a ride of two hours of less, I just leave it in Sport/eMTB mode, but for longer rides I'll climb using eco or tour mode to conserve battery. You'll figure it all out very quickly. There is a little bar graph on the right side of the display that shows exactly how much power is being sent to the motor by the battery. If you glance at that occasionally, you'll eventually get a feel for how to conserve power on long rides.

The electronics in the Bosch system are pretty amazing. It all feels very natural. Just be sure you have the upgraded eMTB firmware, which makes a huge difference.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

2wheelfun said:


> I fit the (ADA) criteria of needing a ebike


The ADA doesn't decide whether you need an e-bike, your doctor determines whether or not you are disabled.

Do you have a handicapped parking permit?


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

honkinunit said:


> Harryman, you missed a recent change in El Paso County:
> 
> 12/13/17 El Paso County
> Res 17-350 Amended Park Rules
> ...


No, I'm aware of that, they're legal on bike paths only. Tier 3 trails are singletrack.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Harryman said:


> No, I'm aware of that, they're legal on bike paths only. Tier 3 trails are singletrack.


I was wondering about that, as well as his earlier statement that e-bikes are legal on any trail that allows mountain bikes in all CO State Parks. True, or wishful thinking?


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

I have been told by the Chief Ranger at Golden Gate, as well as a rank and file ranger at Colorado State Forest SP that they were told by CPW officials that per C.R.S. Section 42-1-102, Class 1 is legal in all state parks now. I have left messages at Staunton and Eldorado to get confirmation that they agree, since I'd rather clear it up front than have an issue after I went all the way to the park. 

I tried to get some kind of response from CPW in Denver, but you just get trapped in phone menu hell, and when you hit '0' for a "Customer Service Representative", it hangs up on you. 

Update: I just spoke with a very helpful person named Patty at Highline State Park where the 18 Hours of Fruita is held. She said the memo came down from the state level in November that Class 1 ebikes are allowed in all state parks. Sweet. She also said when I go out there, that she would like to check out my Haibike and test it out! 

Then I called Lory State Park, and the person at the visitor's center said they were told last summer that ebikes are not allowed, and he didn't know of a November memo. I'm digging in to find out the scoop. Once I get a definitive answer, I think I'll create a new thread to discuss. 

There are a surprisingly small percentage of state parks that have MTB opportunities. I define that as a decent dirt loop or out and back of at least five miles. I'm not saying that all the the parks below have *good* mountain biking (I haven't visited about half of them), but that the website appears to say there would be at least five miles of dirt. Several parks aren't listed that I know have connection to trails on BLM and/or NFS, but I'm not going to try to unwind that. 

My quick list from looking at the CPW website:

Golden Gate
Staunton
Eldorado (Rattlesnake Gulch)
State Forest
Stagecoach
Steamboat Lake
Barr Lake (I suppose)
Cheyenne Mountain
Eleven Mile
Elkhead (never heard of this one)
Highline
Lake Pueblo
Lory
Mueller
Ridgway
Trinidad


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

honkinunit said:


> I have been told by the Chief Ranger at Golden Gate, as well as a rank and file ranger at Colorado State Forest SP that they were told by CPW officials that per C.R.S. Section 42-1-102, Class 1 is legal in all state parks now. I have left messages at Staunton and Eldorado to get confirmation that they agree, since I'd rather clear it up front than have an issue after I went all the way to the park.
> 
> I tried to get some kind of response from CPW in Denver, but you just get trapped in phone menu hell, and when you hit '0' for a "Customer Service Representative", it hangs up on you.
> 
> ...


Yeah, there isn't a lot of mtb access in the state park system since some of them were wildlife management lands, primarily for hunting and fishing, so they didn't allow or have suitable trails for mtbs. At least less than I expected once I started looking into it.

I've been in contact with my regional CPW trails guy, allowing Class 1 is provisional at the moment, not a permanent policy, but I'd not be surprised if they to stick with it. With the State Parks system, at least the ones I've ridden in, they have much more control over access, a single point of entry for example, and he said simply the fact that you have to pay to get in, cuts down on misbehaving in general, so I wouldn't expct to see anything other than Class 1 there.

Other than that, CSU and the USFS have the same policies, an El Paso County contact said they were going to match Colorado Springs Parks with Class 1 only on Tier 1 & 2 trails, nothing on Tier 3 and both will start putting up signs soon.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Solid 411 boyz.

:thumbsup:


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

I received responses from the managers at Lory and Mueller, and they confirmed what harryman posted above - for now, Class 1 are allowed, but kind of "on probation". Each park is going to report back at some unspecified time about how things are going. 

I'll be visiting a lot of state parks this summer.


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## 2wheelfun (Jan 8, 2018)

New "class 1" assist bike came yesterday, if I say e-bike some out there want to tar and feather me. Don't worry I wont be tearing up any trails, you young studs will still be rocketing around me and I was once young like you and invincible. Now a days I just want to take in the view and the clean air. Hope we can all find common ground and have a fun camaraderie, where I can bench race with you and say I will leave you in the dust, but that was another time. See you on the trail.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

2wheelfun said:


> New "class 1" assist bike came yesterday, if I say e-bike some out there want to tar and feather me. Don't worry I wont be tearing up any trails, you young studs will still be rocketing around me and I was once young like you and invincible. Now a days I just want to take in the view and the clean air. Hope we can all find common ground and have a fun camaraderie, where I can bench race with you and say I will leave you in the dust, but that was another time. See you on the trail.


Cheers? At the end of the day, that's all that matters.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

2wheelfun said:


> New "class 1" assist bike came yesterday, if I say e-bike some out there want to tar and feather me. Don't worry I wont be tearing up any trails, you young studs will still be rocketing around me and I was once young like you and invincible. Now a days I just want to take in the view and the clean air. Hope we can all find common ground and have a fun camaraderie, where I can bench race with you and say I will leave you in the dust, but that was another time. See you on the trail.


Rad man! I'm stoked for you. You're a perfect example of how a pedal assist bike will be an asset to all of us one day. Ride on!


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