# my new "Winterbike"



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

ok-it's just late summer but nevertheless i got the opportunity to build myself something new. i got that sweet Progress scandium frameset from my friend for my 41th birthday so i disassembled my old winterbike and voila-here's the new one:

frame: Progress Team SL , size M, 1320g
fork: SID WC 08, 80mm,185mm steerer, crown lockout, 1455g
headset: CaneCreek integrated 63g
expander: FRM 14g
a-headcap+bolt: Tune carbon 4g
spacers: 20mm carbon , 6g
stem: Syntace F99 Ti , 120mm, 103g
handlebar: FRM Web-Bar Carbon, 105g
grips: Scott Foam 20g
shifters: SRAM Plasma 153g
brakes: Avid Juicy Ultimate (with Alligator 160/140 rotors,alloy bolts) ca. 650g
wheelset: American Classic Disc MTB ca. 1450g
tires: Continental RaceKing 2.2 Supersonic (470g+474g)
inner tubes: Conti Supersonic (93+90g)
rimtape: Ritchey WCS 12g
skewers: Control-Tech Ti bolt-on 48g
BB: KCNC scandium 68-108, 139g
crank fixing bolts: KCNC 25g
crankset: RaceFace Next SL with 42/29 chainrings, 505g
pedals: Eggbeater 3Ti with 4Ti axles, 175g
front derailleur: Shimano Dura Ace 10s with Al-bolts, 78g
rear derailleur: XTR 199g
chain: KMC X10SL 225g
casette: Nino's Titanium 11-32SL 174g
seatpost collar: Token 34,9, 9,5g
seatpost: Token Carbon 27,2/310 , 116g
shim: 31,6/27,2....18g
saddle: Token carbon 107g
cables: Alliagator i-link ca. 60g

Total: 8440g / 18.6 lbs

i was curious to see how that new SID would perform and i have to say i am really impressed. that fork is soaking up everything in its way...really superb action and a world apart from what i am used of my oooold SID. that thing is stiff and has lots of reserves. i had to put a lot more pressure than what they suggest in the manual to avoid bottoming. i took the pump with me and had to raise the pressure even more midway into that nice downhill trail...now it is set-up pretty stiff but i can bomb down over logs and roots at speed without having to worry about the line.together with the massive size of the RaceKing tires this is almost like riding a FS....the only downside of that bike is indeed it's weight. i mean it is pretty light but the front feels heavy. it seems slower because of it and it can't be flicked around as easy as i can with my Scott Scale but then it will also smoothen everything that is in the way...it feels much more planted to the ground.makes you feel safe. maybe i have to get accustomed or maybe i have to invest in lighter wheels and put those prototype inner tubes on which will save quite considerable weight as well.there's some minor adjustements left: i will take out 1 spacer and lower the handlebar some.the front derailleur needs some finetuning and i would love to get another set of those super-innertubes but i will have to wait a couple of days to get them. i already had the impression the regular butyl tubes would roll slower than those supertubes which i have in my Scale.

anyway - the 1st ride today was already in a short but heavy rainshower.the trail was once again super slippery but the Conti RKs would let me ride it really as if i were on rails. it's like magic!! now i already went a LOT faster than i ever thought possible in those conditions but there is still more speed possible. it's just that over the last 15 years i have learned that when it's wet it's normally slippery...not so with the Conti RKs.those are really awesome.

Winter - i am ready


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Very nice for a winter bike.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Very Nice Nino! Very nice indeed...

I thought you said it was an old Sid you bought when i asked about the stickers??  That's the one i was talking about  


Also - what carbon spacers are you using at 6g for 20mm? Mine are 17 grams for 20mm!


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*old VS new SID*



Tiffster said:


> Very Nice Nino! Very nice indeed...
> 
> I thought you said it was an old Sid you bought when i asked about the stickers??  That's the one i was talking about
> 
> Also - what carbon spacers are you using at 6g for 20mm? Mine are 17 grams for 20mm!


i was indeed talking about an OLD SID i was buying just a couple of weeks ago .i had it in my previous winterbike.see pic below! that's the setup i used just a couple of days ago as a comparison ride for the RaceKings on that slippery trail.

now i built this new one up and since i can get parts for supersweet deals i gave the new and heavy "monster" SID a try...i didn't get any stickers though otherwise you could have them.

that bike has seen a couple of forks in it's rather short life acting as my winterbike:
some 0815 asian carbon
Token Carbon
Spinner Aeris
SID WC

by the way - this other frame is up for sale! scandium frameset, size M/18", Disc+V-Brake, ca. 1350g ( has seen 2 winters but still in great condition)


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Oh well, lost in translation i guess  

Very nice bike though. I would have waited for the new carbon Sid though myself :thumbsup:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*carbon SID*



Tiffster said:


> Oh well, lost in translation i guess
> 
> Very nice bike though. I would have waited for the new carbon Sid though myself :thumbsup:


if ever there's a lighter one rest assured i'll get it


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

LOL


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

my winter bike is a 1988 Nishiki 10 speed - converted to ss with cross tires and flat pedals & bars - it's a little over 17 lbs though. 

nice "winter" bike - but I am really starting to hate you

BTW - those are long LOOOOOONG stems you got going there. 

& funny how at 17 lb bike feels heavy in the front... 


if you are thinking about different wheels, you need to try ZTR race - (or have you already?) love mine.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*"heavy" front*



kevbikemad said:


> my winter bike is a 1988 Nishiki 10 speed - converted to ss with cross tires and flat pedals & bars - it's a little over 17 lbs though.
> 
> nice "winter" bike - but I am really starting to hate you
> 
> ...


well - if you already have a 15 lbs bike with a 1063g fork it sure makes that really nice bike feel "heavy" in comparison.

stems are 120mm.not too long.i would sit upright with shorter stems.

wheels are in the works...should be lighter than some ZTRs...and cheaper too


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## alcaria (May 11, 2007)

Hi Nino, I'm curious do the RaceKing 2.2 fit with the Token carbon fork. Have you tried such a set up.

Thanks and nice Bike


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

I'm very impressed I must say. It looks like a brilliant winter bike setup. I'd ride it in a second any season of the year. 

How does the Token carbon saddle feel? I have always been a big SLR fan but I must say the Token looks very appealing (weight and size wise).


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

alcaria said:


> Hi Nino, I'm curious do the RaceKing 2.2 fit with the Token carbon fork. Have you tried such a set up.
> 
> Thanks and nice Bike


i will definitely try the Token for on this bike as well.the ballon-like tires should do good with that fork and i usually use the rigid Token when things get really wet or when there's snow and ice. i will post a pic later but i guess it will fit. i once tried the Conti Speedking 2.3" and it fit well (see pic). the Speedking however was one of the worst tires i ever tried.

ok-i just took the front wheel out and made some pics of it in the Token fork: the Token fork fits! there's 5mm left on both sides and since the RaceKings don't seem to clog up with mud this should definitely enough space. the Token fork will definitely bring back that super agile and quick handling i'm missing right now. and the RaceKings seem to do a much better job damping wise as the Speedkings did so this might be a setup i will try very soon.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Saddle*



Trevor! said:


> I'm very impressed I must say. It looks like a brilliant winter bike setup. I'd ride it in a second any season of the year.
> 
> How does the Token carbon saddle feel? I have always been a big SLR fan but I must say the Token looks very appealing (weight and size wise).


the saddle is very comfy! it looks like a Selle San Marco Aspide but is much,much cheaper and lighter as well. also lighter than those SLR Carbonios... it comes with bold logos but those can be shaved off with some emery cloth and some new spray-laquer will finish the job. i did that to both the saddle and the Token seatpost.

saddle: 108g (107g without logo )
seatpost 27,2/310: 116g


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Wow, Nino....that saddle looks just like the M2 Racer, that's out of production. Nice winter bike!


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## JaLove (Dec 24, 2006)

Without a doubt, nice bikes! I've mounted and run my Race Kings now and I have to agree with everything that you and Rockyuphill have to say about them. We have some nice but very wet trails right now in the southern part of Wisconsin. Great tires...


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## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

Nice bike!
How's riding with a fork that is 20 or 30% heavier that the entire frame? 

Just installed my Team - it was 1480g with a 200mm steerer tube, vs the 1280g of the 2004 version it replaced. Call it evolution!

I thought that the Sid WC was lighter, btw


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

I bet you'll find that extra half pound the most worthwhile weight on the bike the first time you going flying into a cobble or rooty stretch of trail at speed.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

rockyuphill said:


> I bet you'll find that extra half pound the most worthwhile weight on the bike the first time you going flying into a cobble or rooty stretch of trail at speed.


yes - too bad that damn thing is performing that good

now i have a hard time since i really have to worry about such a fork on my Scale. i might try that soon and swap forks...but the weights are just too high! as mentioned already that heavy feel to the front is really the only thing i don't like about that bike. you sure get accustomed and it sure rides through rooty sections with ease but the quick and agile handling, the ability to flick it around has been greatly affected.

anyway - same happened with the huge tires but the performance gain is just HUGE...so in th end i think the better will be used, not the lighter.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Sid Wc*



Ausable said:


> Nice bike!
> How's riding with a fork that is 20 or 30% heavier that the entire frame?
> 
> Just installed my Team - it was 1480g with a 200mm steerer tube, vs the 1280g of the 2004 version it replaced. Call it evolution!
> ...


the SID WC weighed 1489g uncut (100mm setting)

i added the spacer to reduce the travel to 80mm (+4g) and cut the steerer to 185mm...now it's 1455g (would be 1451g for the 100mm setting)

i was tempted to buy a SID Team but when i checked the weights i sticked with the WC.The Team i could get was a Disc-V-Brake version and weighed a hefty 1548g.

pictured: 2008/09 SID WC, crown lockout,uncut steerer,100mm setting


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## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

rockyuphill said:


> I bet you'll find that extra half pound the most worthwhile weight on the bike the first time you going flying into a cobble or rooty stretch of trail at speed.


No way, my old noodle actually helped to pass riders in technical downhills- it was able to choose its own lines


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*details...*

i mentioned already that the front derailleur needs some minor adjustement and sice we had really awful weather i was spending some time in the basement...

the frame has the threads of the bottlecage it that exact spot where i would need to have the clamp of my Dura Ace derailleur. i needed to shave the clamp to be able to lower the derailleur to the exact position.as it was it was sitting 5mm above the chainrings.now i'ts 2 as it should.

i always thought that the newer 10s derailleurs wouldn't work well on MTBs but at least with 2x9 it does! with aluminium bolt my 10s DA with integrated 34,9 clamp weighs just 77,5g.

since i already had the dremel out i also tuned my chainrings some more. the 29t TA Specialite came down from 25g to 18, the Sugino now sits at 50g without touching any shifting ramps at all...together 69g


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*crankset...*



nino said:


> i mentioned already that the front derailleur needs some minor adjustement and sice we had really awful weather i was spending some time in the basement...
> 
> the frame has the threads of the bottlecage it that exact spot where i would need to have the clamp of my Dura Ace derailleur. i needed to shave the clamp to be able to lower the derailleur to the exact position.as it was it was sitting 5mm above the chainrings.now i'ts 2 as it should.
> 
> ...


and here's the shaved chainrings on the bike.

we have "freezing" temeratures right now.over the weekend they dropped from 25 to now actually 9 degrees celsius.wow-what a shock! i should have raced a motocross race on saturday but due to heavy rain decided to stay home instead (what a sissy...) and yesterday i could have raced a MTB-race not too far away but only my son raced it. 8 degrees and a track with deepest mud...no thanks. i will go for a ride today on my own. there's no need to get plastered with mud from other guys as well...


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## AZ-X (Feb 16, 2004)

*It's good to see that you've come over to the 2x9 DARK SIDE...!*



nino said:


> and here's the shaved chainrings on the bike.
> 
> we have "freezing" temeratures right now.over the weekend they dropped from 25 to now actually 9 degrees celsius.wow-what a shock! i should have raced a motocross race on saturday but due to heavy rain decided to stay home instead (what a sissy...) and yesterday i could have raced a MTB-race not too far away but only my son raced it. 8 degrees and a track with deepest mud...no thanks. i will go for a ride today on my own. there's no need to get plastered with mud from other guys as well...


I knew it would only be a matter of time... Nice ride!

PM me about that Token saddle and seatpost. I'm very interested!


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*2x9*



AZ-X said:


> I knew it would only be a matter of time... Nice ride!
> 
> PM me about that Token saddle and seatpost. I'm very interested!


it's about 2 years that i use 2x9 on my own bikes! it's since i have my lightweight 11-32 titanium cassettes that i allowed myself to run a "big" cassette again

the rings on my Scale are slightly lighter as well...


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## AZ-X (Feb 16, 2004)

nino said:


> it's about 2 years that i use 2x9 on my own bikes! it's since i have my lightweight 11-32 titanium cassettes that i allowed myself to run a "big" cassette again
> 
> the rings on my Scale are slightly lighter as well...


Oh well, I don't drop by the forum as often as I used to--obviously! Still... looks good. You've got even more cool parts to drool over than the last time I was here...:thumbsup:


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

nino said:


> yes - too bad that damn thing is performing that good
> 
> now i have a hard time since i really have to worry about such a fork on my Scale. i might try that soon and swap forks...but the weights are just too high! as mentioned already that heavy feel to the front is really the only thing i don't like about that bike. you sure get accustomed and it sure rides through rooty sections with ease but the quick and agile handling, the ability to flick it around has been greatly affected.
> 
> anyway - same happened with the huge tires but the performance gain is just HUGE...so in th end i think the better will be used, not the lighter.


 So Nino, did you tested the new WC on the Scale? I'm curious to see what you think about the weight diference vs. performance regarding the old wc.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*not yet...*



Batas said:


> So Nino, did you tested the new WC on the Scale? I'm curious to see what you think about the weight diference vs. performance regarding the old wc.


i will test it on the Scale when i have a lightweight discbrake and more improtant light wheels. i am about to get all the needed parts soon but the fork is definitely a BIG step ahead. i just don't like its weight. i do not understand why these forks have to be that heavy. a carboncrown/steerer like the old SID WC or Reba WC could easily save 50g and i'm sure there are ways to get the internals lighter as well. this fork is just damn heavy and it makes the front feel just that: heavy.

but i went riding just yesterday with my Progress and bombed down over muddy,slipery and rooty trails with ease. the fork and most important the massive Conti RK 2.2 are such an improvement it is just awesome the tires are a MUST, with the fork i still have hope that there will be a "real" worldcup version with lighter weight....but as is the worldcup comes as a disc-only fork...means i would have to go with discs...that's why i am already looking for light wheels etc...i don't understand why they don't offer it in a V-Brake version i still see no advantage with discbrakes unless you are riding in deepest mud or snow.

anyway - i will definitely have my Scale with disc and such a monster fork soon just to try out. it will add at least 1 lbs but the fork is definitely an improvement.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

nino said:


> i still see no advantage with discbrakes unless you are riding in deepest mud or snow.


Hey Nino, what are your favorite rim brakes/levers? Could you give me your current favs. and a couple other less expensive versions to check out?


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Any report on the wheels you are going to assemble...? Are you gonna pass the Ultimates this time?


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## gremlyn (Feb 27, 2007)

nino said:


> i was tempted to buy a SID Team but when i checked the weights i sticked with the WC.The Team i could get was a Disc-V-Brake version and weighed a hefty 1548g.


My SID Team ('08, 100mm, disc only, uncut steerer, no remote) has been 1503g, if I remember correctly. Now it's at 1475g (didn't measure cut steerer tube though, I think its around 180mm). Not so big difference from the SID WC, I would say...


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*SID Team*



gremlyn said:


> My SID Team ('08, 100mm, disc only, uncut steerer, no remote) has been 1503g, if I remember correctly. Now it's at 1475g (didn't measure cut steerer tube though, I think its around 180mm). Not so big difference from the SID WC, I would say...


i was talking about a Team with V-Brake bosses which would allow me to use my Vs....that fork weighed 1548g and i definitely didn't want to add another 60g on top of an already overweight fork. if i had to pay regular prices i wouldn't even have tried a new SID...but since i do get special deals the WC was my choice for the winterbike.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*wheels+brakes...*



Batas said:


> Any report on the wheels you are going to assemble...? Are you gonna pass the Ultimates this time?


i will present the wheels here as soon as i have them built...they should be pretty light and a price killer.
with the brakes i have no idea.i will evaluate what to get but obviously it has to be something a bit lighter than my ultimates to compensate for the overweight fork.


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## deejayen (Sep 16, 2008)

Very nice. Normally I'd never notice, but my new ride is coming in at 8.4kg, and according to the converter on my mobile, 8440g is actually 18.6lbs, not 17.6lbs..! I know I ought to get a life, but at least I managed to resist the tempation of totting up the weight of each component to confirm the accuracy of the 8440g figure.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*uuups...*



deejayen said:


> Very nice. Normally I'd never notice, but my new ride is coming in at 8.4kg, and according to the converter on my mobile, 8440g is actually 18.6lbs, not 17.6lbs..! I know I ought to get a life, but at least I managed to resist the tempation of totting up the weight of each component to confirm the accuracy of the 8440g figure.


correct- i just corrected that in the initial post!

the 8,44 kilos is the correct weight my hanging scale shows. i have a couple of weights i'm not completely sure about. that's those where i wrote "ca.". if my hanging scale is as accurate as my scale for smaller parts is remains unknown.usually a cmplete bike gets "heavier" when weighed than the addition of the small parts alone.add some grease and air and the inaccuracy of the hanging scale which only shows 20g...


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## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

Wow!


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*new gearing...*

as mentioned earlier i wanted to try 27/42 instead of my usual 29/42 which is not possible by using the middle ring positions on the 5-bolt compact crank where 29t is the minimum you can put (on 4-bolt compact it's 30t).

so i had Mattias, the guy posting his chainrings in the "Homemade chainrings and sprockets"- thread, do me some 27t prototypes. At the moment these are just some working prototypes out of ordinary steel just to see if the gearing works and if they fit without any problems.

well - they fit. BUT not without some finetuning on the setup: i hade to go back to a 113mm ISIS axle-width. So far i was using a shorter ,roadie sized 108mm BB but since i was moving the rings one position inwards i had to go with a longer axle to prevent the rings from touching the chainsays. i still didn't have the time to go for a real ride but will do so tomorrow. just riding around the block didn't reveal any weaknesses. i adjusted the Dura Ace derailleurs stops more inwards and that was it. now the chainline seems perfect.better than before.

i thought it might look odd to have the big-ring position empty on the cranks but you really don't take note unless you approach and look closer. i don't think it looks bad at all.
so i'm really looking forward to try this gearing out. with 2x9 this seems to be the hot ticket. low enough for steep climbs and high enough for good top-speed. once Mattias does them in titanium or aluminium the weight will be in the ballpark. right now that 27t weighs a hefty 43g. my tuned 29t TA Specialite was just 18g...oh well.


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## ginsu2k (Jul 28, 2006)

Personally, I think the holes in that custom chainring are too near the wear surfaces of the teeth. I don't know why they aren't more centered. If they were, the holes could also be much bigger and would drop weight. 

Also, that design may work in steel but it's altogether too thin at the bolt holes for a material like Aluminum.


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## Konish (Dec 26, 2006)

ginsu2k said:


> Personally, I think the holes in that custom chainring are too near the wear surfaces of the teeth. I don't know why they aren't more centered. If they were, the holes could also be much bigger and would drop weight.
> 
> Also, that design may work in steel but it's altogether too thin at the bolt holes for a material like Aluminum.


The holes seems well centered to me...but with the bevel on one side of the tooth and the beveled hole, it does cause a bit of an optical illusion.

You really think these guys will make that ring out of AL? Think Ti...just guessing though.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*correct..*



Konish said:


> The holes seems well centered to me...but with the bevel on one side of the tooth and the beveled hole, it does cause a bit of an optical illusion.
> 
> You really think these guys will make that ring out of AL? Think Ti...just guessing though.


i was talking Mattias into adding some "meat" around the mounting bolts and i also mentioned my thought about those tiny holes in his "homemade chainrings and sprocket"-thread. to me there's too little meat on the teeth with those tiny holes beeing so high up.

this design may work in titanium but definitely not in aluminium. i would like them in AL but then there would be some modifications needed.
AL is about 30% the weight of steel, TI is about 70%...

anyway - i went for a real ride yesterday with a friend of mine of the swisspower team.he was riding a Scott Scale with that 2x9 FRM crankset and the exact same gearing (27/42). the gearing is definitely an improvement over the 29t i previoulsy used. i now have a real low gear for steep climbs. there's also less overlap in gears. the shifting was smooth as ever. no issues. it went completely unnoticed which is a good thing.


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## Konish (Dec 26, 2006)

Ah...gotcha. I understand the comment made by ginsu2K earlier now. Not centered on the tooth itself, but more centered between the main part of the disc and the teeth. Duh. 

Without some pretty sophisticated methods for design and material strength testing, it'll *have* to come down to "real-world" testing to see if the mounting holes are too thin. 

I'm sure that the other consideration is the longevity of something so gracile vs. something more robust. Being in the weight weenie forum, I'm guessing that the former beats out the latter in design if just from weight considerations alone.

Looks cool so far though!


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

ginsu2k said:


> Personally, I think the holes in that custom chainring are too near the wear surfaces of the teeth. I don't know why they aren't more centered. If they were, the holes could also be much bigger and would drop weight.
> 
> Also, that design may work in steel but it's altogether too thin at the bolt holes for a material like Aluminum.


Ginsu, I designed these rings, of course I will not use the same design on aluminum, I have more than two brain cells.

Aluminum requires different design approach because they are not strong as Ti.

I ´m performing my destructive tests on stainless steel fron Outokumpu, if they work so they will work better in Titanium Gr5.

They are still made in my free time.

Regarding wear, if the chain touches the holes, the ring is too worn and should have been thrown long time ago.

If I make the holes lower and in center of the material, it would weaken the ring considerably.

Been there done that.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*design...*



Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Ginsu, I designed these rings, of course I will not use the same design on aluminum, I have more than two brain cells.
> 
> Aluminum requires different design approach because they are not strong as Ti.
> 
> ...


Mattias,
just refer to the rings in the picture below. no gimmicks.just straight and simple.these rings are durable and out of aluminium. (29t = 19g / 38t = 25g )


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## ginsu2k (Jul 28, 2006)

Mattias, is there some reason you don't want to use Aluminum? I think those 29t rings and weights that nino just posted is what you're trying to accomplish, right? I think you should just use the design of those rings and make a 27t in Aluminum, they look like the holes are well positioned and there is plenty of material around the mounting points. 

If you do decide to make a 27t out of aluminum you may want to increase the thickness to something like 5mm. I know my 22t 6061-T6 granny ring weighs in at 27grams, so it's quite a substantial thickness.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

ginsu2k: I like to use Ti because it wears better than aluminum and easier to get.

But I have two sheets 7475-T76 home, I will try to make something similar.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

The problem is too, I have a 2D abrasive water jet machine here, no mill, no lathe.
How can you get 5mm thick aluminum to 2mm without to use a lathe?

It´s because I only use 2mm thick sheets.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*chainring thicknesses..*



Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> The problem is too, I have a 2D abrasive water jet machine here, no mill, no lathe.
> How can you get 5mm thick aluminum to 2mm without to use a lathe?
> 
> It´s because I only use 2mm thick sheets.


5mm is WAY TOO THICK!

some measurements on different ALUMINIUM chainrings:
the 29t TA Specialite has 3.5mm at the base (at the mounting bolts) and 2,2mm at the teeth
that 38t has 3,0mm at the base and 2,0mm at the teeth
my 42t Sugino Supershifter is 2,7mm at the base and 2,0mm at the teeth.

so if a 42t is strong enough with just 2,7mm a 27t for sure is as well !

Mattias,
did you ever measure the weight loss of those tiny holes in the teeth? i don't think they are worth more than 1g...so i'd rather forget about them completely.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Nino, you´ve come with good input here.

The tiny little holes are alone worth about 3-5 grams, it all depends on which type os material and size of ring.

In aluminum, the holes are worthless I think, but does a impact on a custom look.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Nino, you´ve come with good input here.
> 
> The tiny little holes are alone worth about 3-5 grams, it all depends on which type os material and size of ring.
> 
> In aluminum, the holes are worthless I think, but does a impact on a custom look.


3 or 5? and i would say maximum 3 on a 44t....but on a 27t they might be 1g only.

look? ok - i agree it looks cool but not when they are so far out that by just looking at the teeth youu think they can break. the way it's done on the 29t and 38t looks better to mee without any downsides on durability.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I´ve made about 10 chainrings in titanium, no one of them has broken in this area.

So I suspect it´s good enough.
There´s no extra time in the water jet machine to make such small holes.
One 27T I clocked to 4 minutes in the machine.
Not bad at all.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Regarding a specific chainring like you got Nino.
27T with compact boltcircle.
No holes and no chamfering 29 gr.
With holes and chamfering 25.5 gr.
So it´s worth 3.5 grams.

It does give a unique look.
If you don´t like it, you are free to buy a another ring from a another company.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> If you don´t like it, you are free to buy a another ring from a another company.


Mattias, i like them! otherwise i wouldn't have shown them here in detail...i was trying to help in the design, not criticize. I / WE are lucky to have a guy on hand that is able to do such custom rings!!

i completely understand your intention with the holes but i just think they are too far out and if you want to sell these rings you better make the design in a way that people don't have any durability concerns at all. that's why i suggested adding some material around the mounting bolts and either leave the tiny holes away or have them more to the centre. maybe just 1mm farther inside. i'm sure that if you do them right and with a nice finish they could sell. you will save more by taking away material in other place like i have shown you in a personal e-mail. this would save 2-3 times more than the tiny holes.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Thanks!

Yes I understand your point and I WILL listen to you and another one who know better.

Sometimes I´m limited to what I have in house, i.e grinding and finishing and waterjet cutting.

If my intention is to make profit on these rings I should done it in big way a year ago or so.

I prefer to make it small and more for the fun factor, seeing how far I can push titanium as material.

In aluminum as material there´s no real challenge because it´s already companies who make sub 20 gr rings.

The placement of holes are what I will investigate further and see how they add or remove durability.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*titanium...*



Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I prefer to make it small and more for the fun factor, seeing how far I can push titanium as material.


ok- but with titanium you have to keep your focus on single ring setups or inner rings only as those don't need any shifting ramps. i wouldn't go for the absolutely lightest as titanium won't beat aluminium anyway. titanium has advantages in durability so don't ruin your main advantage with designs that look weak just by looking at them.if your rings are light enough that's great since everyone knows that titanium has better durability.

with your ability to do any size possible concentrate on doing such rings like "mine". rings that people need that the big manufacturers don't offer. maybe the 29er guys also need some special gearing? i know that those guys get higher gearing because of the bigger wheels so you might also find some guys wanting smaller rings there? maybe go to their forum and ask...or as mentioned all those singlespeeders out there which have about 3 times the wear on their rings as others with 3 rings have...

or try doing some ti-sprockets for shimano cassettes! there's about 5 sprockets of which at least 3 are out of sheet material.

shown below the last 5 cogs of an actual XTR cassette against the same size Titanium sprockets of a titanium cassette. ah ok -i forgot about the shifting ramps!


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Update...*

as mentioned elsewhere i was able to get a Scott Scale frameset from Thomas Frischknecht for cheap....needless to say i jumped on the occasion and voila - my new-new Winterbike

as it stands it weighs still 8,1 kilos.

that's with some parts that i will definitely replace: a terribly overweight XTR front derailleur (148g!!!!), standard Ritchey WCS seatpost (224g)...

XTR is DEAD!! i can't believe that a simple front derailleur has to weigh this much:madman: all i need is a top-pull adapter for my 77g DA derailleur. i can't detect any difference in performance coming from the DA to the new generation XTR. The XTR is just overbuilt!

another seatpost should be in the mail next week as well as lighter wheels. it should easily come to 7,8 kilos. not bad for a spare bike:thumbsup:


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

That's nice Nino -that saddle looks really nice too - kinda aero slick look to it.

Agree about XTR - ugly, heavy and made by Shimano:nono:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*I have a problem...*

now i really have a problem:
which bike do i take today?
the 8 kilo Disc-Scale
the 7 kilo V-Brake Scale
the 5 kilo Addict SL

....man-i really have a hard time


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

The graphics on your new "winter Scale" is awesome. Simple yet looks fast..

G


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## stig (Jan 20, 2004)

Can anybody recommend a good dealer for that Progress frame. It's just what I have been looking for.


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

what's the weight and size for the frame?
thanks


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

nino said:


> now i really have a problem:
> which bike do i take today?
> the 8 kilo Disc-Scale
> the 7 kilo V-Brake Scale
> ...


Green grass? You're supposed to be skiing in Switzerland this time of year. Where's the snow?

I used to drool over the Scott bikes when I went to the store in Vienna. Then I moved back to the states only to find the US company, Scott, didn't sell their mountain bikes in the US. I'm not sure if that is still the case, but your stable looks great. Just grab one and go for a ride.

Do you have any closeups of the 7 kilo - V-Brake Scale? I'd love to see the Extralite/Twist grip shifters combo for cockpit room. It looks like you have them set up for 1 finger braking which is my preference. I thought I read those Extralite levers were not the ticket for guys with long fingers which I have, but that photo looks like they would be just fine.

BB


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*weather...*



BruceBrown said:


> Green grass? You're supposed to be skiing in Switzerland this time of year. Where's the snow?
> 
> I used to drool over the Scott bikes when I went to the store in Vienna. Then I moved back to the states only to find the US company, Scott, didn't sell their mountain bikes in the US. I'm not sure if that is still the case, but your stable looks great. Just grab one and go for a ride.
> 
> ...


we had about 40cm snow until 10 days ago. then it all melted and now it's the 3rd day all is completely frozen again.no snow and bonehard and dry trails. my bike today got only a bit dusty. 4 days ago i was plastered in deepest mud.

yes-i have the levers set up for 1 finger braking. that's all i need with my V's!!


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

nino said:


> we had about 40cm snow until 10 days ago. then it all melted and now it's the 3rd day all is completely frozen again.no snow and bonehard and dry trails. my bike today got only a bit dusty. 4 days ago i was plastered in deepest mud.
> 
> yes-i have the levers set up for 1 finger braking. that's all i need with my V's!!


Thanks for the cockpit shot. I like those levers. I've been reading threads about the Extralites, Paul Love Levers, KCNC levers and liking all of them.

Much better riding with just a little dust than being plastered in mud in terms of cleaning up afterwards.

BB


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

What year is that SID Nino? The new World Cup SID isn't available with v-brake tabs but the Team and Race versions are?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Sid*



limba said:


> What year is that SID Nino? The new World Cup SID isn't available with v-brake tabs but the Team and Race versions are?


Don't compare the latest pic with the Winterbike i showed before! This is my "main" bike. It's a 05 Scott Scale with V-Brakes and i has a modified '00 SID Race with '02 SID WC steerer (V-Brake only, 1063g). My V-Brake Bike weighs anywhere from 6,5 Kilos to actual 7,1 kilos depending on the wheelset and tires it has mounted. Right now it's used with a standard Mavic Crossmax wheelset and huge Conti Raceking 2,2" tires: 7,1 kilos

My Winterbike on the other hand comes with a new, disc-only SID WC (1446g)


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## Guido Beeck (Jul 15, 2008)

How do you fit an ordinary XTR-downswing front mech on the extremely oversize Scaletubes?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*front derailleur..*



Guido Beeck said:


> How do you fit an ordinary XTR-downswing front mech on the extremely oversize Scaletubes?


easy: just make the inside wider by using a dremel.

as mentioned i will use my Dura Ace FD-7800 once i get the top-pull adapter. This will weigh 85g. The one on the picture already is modified to go on the massive 38mm seattube.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

What front mech does the Scale use normally then if you need to mod XTR/Dura ace to fit the 38mm tube ?

The Top pull adapters are cool - i make them for Sram Red myself.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Front derailleur...*



Tiffster said:


> What front mech does the Scale use normally then if you need to mod XTR/Dura ace to fit the 38mm tube ?
> 
> The Top pull adapters are cool - i make them for Sram Red myself.


The Scales usually use heavy E-Type.

Since the frame is already 73mm you can't use shorter BB axles. 73mm+ ca. 3mm for the E-Type plate makes for a massive size down there.only very few manufacturers offer BBs that are made for these kinds of frames with offset axle. these frames are supposed to be used with integrated cranks where you always have these 3 spacers to compensate.on the Scale none of these spacers is mounted. BUT integrated cranks are heavier and wider and have less options regarding chainring sizes and q-factor...

By getting rid of the E-Type derailleur i can use ALL regular BBs, shorter axles, different chainring setups, slimmer q-factor AND it has less weight too:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

The whole Swisspower Team is now using their Scales with modified front derailleurs too...


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Yes, I know they're different bikes. I was just curious what year that fork was.


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## crankmeister (Sep 4, 2008)

nino said:


> The Scales usually use heavy E-Type.
> 
> Since the frame is already 73mm you can't use shorter BB axles. 73mm+ ca. 3mm for the E-Type plate makes for a massive size down there.only very few manufacturers offer BBs that are made for these kinds of frames with offset axle. these frames are supposed to be used with integrated cranks where you always have these 3 spacers to compensate.on the Scale none of these spacers is mounted. BUT integrated cranks are heavier and wider and have less options regarding chainring sizes and q-factor...
> 
> ...


so Nino your modified durace front mech is just the ticket for the frm 2x9 crankset.
But will it work with extralite Ebones on my scale 30 2009???
I really like the lengths at which you go too,to achieve your goals!!!
also whats all this about you knowing where to get light weight parts.
If you any parts that may interest me to go on my scale please drop me a pm or if youve a website the link please.cheers


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*front derailleur...*



crankmeister said:


> so Nino your modified durace front mech is just the ticket for the frm 2x9 crankset.
> But will it work with extralite Ebones on my scale 30 2009???
> I really like the lengths at which you go too,to achieve your goals!!!
> also whats all this about you knowing where to get light weight parts.
> If you any parts that may interest me to go on my scale please drop me a pm or if youve a website the link please.cheers


I do these modifications not only because of the weight. As mentioned above these modified regular derailleurs allow me all sorts of options AND are lighter too...simply said: just better!

Are you talking about E-Bones or W-Bones? The E-Bones are older cranks that use a regular bottom brackett. These are ok. The W-Bones are the integrated cranks and i would suggest you stay clear of them as they don't have the best reputation. Major durability problems with those bearings.

Meanwhile i got a nice little weight-saver for my bike:
a 38mm seatpost clamp: 5,3g

the standard one weighs about 14g so another 8g or so saved:thumbsup:


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Nino is that one of the proper BTP ones or the copies off ebay ?

Can you post more pics of it fitted etc as im thinking of getting one too.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*no BTP*



Tiffster said:


> Nino is that one of the proper BTP ones or the copies off ebay ?
> 
> Can you post more pics of it fitted etc as im thinking of getting one too.


that's some german-made clamps but no BTP

i use them already since 2005 on my other bikes without any issues.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Where'd you get it ?


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## superspec (Sep 15, 2007)

nino, pm sent about the wcs post


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*front derailleur*

ok - i finally got the SPEEN Top-Pull adapter for my Dura Ace FD-7800 front derailleur.

Speen Adapter incl. bolt: 7,1g
DA 7800 incl. Speen adapter and aluminium bolts: 82,6g (that's with slightly shaved clamp to adapt to the 38mm seattube of the Scale)

so another 61g saved. the XTR is just completely overbuilt and ugly.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

nino said:


> the XTR is just completely overbuilt and ugly.


And they've been getting chubbier as they get into middle age. 950 series XTR FD 113gms with the articulated inner/outer cage, 132gms for the 960 series with the conventional cage.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Even my E-Type with carbon plate sits @ 120g.... Nowadays they are really heavy.

Nino, or anybody, the dura ace doesn't work with tripple chain rings does it...?


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Dura Ace wont work on triple but there are older triple ring dura ace mechs which would work but there heavy so not worth the weight saving.

Can't say i think much of Dura Ace either but it certainly looks better than that brick XTR mech. I like all the angles and shape of Sram Red myself.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Tiffster said:


> Dura Ace wont work on triple but there are older triple ring dura ace mechs which would work but there heavy so not worth the weight saving.
> 
> Can't say i think much of Dura Ace either but it certainly looks better than that brick XTR mech. I like all the angles and shape of Sram Red myself.


not correct - the older 9s DA 7700 works well with triple! I use that one still on my other Scale

DA braze on: 71g
+ BTP Adapter: 79g
+ Aluminium Adapter: 86g

Just remember that the 7700 has a wider cage.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

My bad - but surely it must be a bugger to shift from the granny to the middle ring with the cage being so short ? 

Sram Red cage is Really wide - i think you could probably get it working on a triple too - its wider than the 7700 cage.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Tiffster said:


> My bad - but surely it must be a bugger to shift from the granny to the middle ring with the cage being so short ?
> 
> Sram Red cage is Really wide - i think you could probably get it working on a triple too - its wider than the 7700 cage.


How wide is the SRAM Red? Either one, working the left hand twist grip to trim, should be key.

BB (Dura Ace is on its way to me.)


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## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

Just curious if you stuck those Ti rings onto your xtr cassette to see if they would fit and what the final weight was.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Ti cogs on XTR*



protocol_droid said:


> Just curious if you stuck those Ti rings onto your xtr cassette to see if they would fit and what the final weight was.


yes i did but to be honest i don't even remember if they worked. i think yes but would have to re-try to be 100%. I remember i rode just around the house but not really out in the dirt. From the moment my Titanium cassettes arrived i never had a Shimano cassette on my bikes again

shown below:
-XTR 970 / 11-32: 223g
-individual XTR cogs: 84g
-same size replacement Ti cogs of my cassettes: 50g
-XTR cassette with Ti cogs of my cassette: 189g (sorry - somehow this pic won't upload??)
-11-32 SL cassette of which these Ti-cogs come from: 167g


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

I can't remember the width of the cage - i had it posted somewhere in cyberspace when i had modified my Sram mech.. It's wide though - wider than 7700 im sure


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*XTR Cassette tuned...*

i finally was able to upload the missing picture:

XTR 11-32 with SL-Kit: 189g


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*new Seatpost...*

well - there's not much manufacturers that offer seatpostst in the odd 34,9mm size of the Scott.

The really light ones like Schmolke and AX-Lightness are waaay overprized and i'm still not willing to pay what they ask for them.

On my V-brake Scale i use a adapter shim with a New Ultimate 31,6/350 aluminium seatpost.This combination weighs 155g.

Now i opted for the latest version of New Ultimate - you might remember by my last comments not too long ago that I was just a bit hesitant since all NU carbon posts i sold had to be replaced. That's why i stopped selling them completely . Now it seems they got it right. The seatpost is still uncut and it also offers some setback. Not much but just a bit. As always craftmanship is just top. I expect it to weigh 155-160g cut to 350cm lenght.

shown below:
New Ultimate carbon 34,9/400: 179g


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Are those type of clamps ok on Carbon Saddle Rails ?

In particular a carbon SLR ?


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## Cranked (Jun 1, 2006)

What a joke, after all the sh!t you gave me over the exact same post. They went from compete crap to top notch craftsmanship in a couple of weeks? give me a break.


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*read again...*



Cranked said:


> What a joke, after all the sh!t you gave me over the exact same post. They went from compete crap to top notch craftsmanship in a couple of weeks? give me a break.


sorry - as mentioned already i got convinced by the main man of New Ultimate himself that the durability issues are solved now.

BUT the new generation NU seatposts got also much heavier than in the past and i doubt we will see many of those posts around since asia offers very light seatposts for much less money.

I never questioned the craftsmanship - it was the durability of the early carbon seatposts that was poor. I had to replace almost all of the ones i sold. I never had any issues with the aluminium posts though and still use them on my other bikes. So i sure appreciate NU. It was the early series carbon posts that $ucked BIIIG TIME.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

nino said:


> now i really have a problem:
> which bike do i take today?
> the 8 kilo Disc-Scale
> the 7 kilo V-Brake Scale
> ...


That's a wrong way to choose. They are all pretty much for the same purpose.

For this afternoon ride, once I escape from the office early I will need to choose between a 9kg titanium hardtail, 11kg marathon 100mm full suspension, and 15kg 160mm FS AM bike with rear coil and fat tires.

Now that's a balanced choice.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Curmy said:


> That's a wrong way to choose. They are all pretty much for the same purpose.
> 
> For this afternoon ride, once I escape from the office early I will need to choose between a 9kg titanium hardtail, 11kg marathon 100mm full suspension, and 15kg 160mm FS AM bike with rear coil and fat tires.
> 
> Now that's a balanced choice.


i almost forgot - i have 1 more choice if i wanna play around

about 98 Kilos though


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

nino said:


> i almost forgot - i have 1 more choice if i wanna play around
> 
> about 98 Kilos though


That's sweet.

I am afraid of motorcycles though. Not many places, if any, around here that you can ride them.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Curmy said:


> That's sweet.
> 
> I am afraid of motorcycles though. Not many places, if any, around here that you can ride them.


Over here in Switzerland either. During the off-season i used to go to Italy almost every weekend when i still raced. Racing was done here but finding permanent tracks for practicing was difficult.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

nino said:


> Over here in Switzerland either. During the off-season i used to go to Italy almost every weekend when i still raced. Racing was done here but finding permanent tracks for practicing was difficult.


It will be interesting to see what a certified weight weenie like you would pick on a 160mm all-mountain bike..

My Coiler is my next project, getting a wheelset, ti spring, shopping for the durable light tires to run tubeless. Need a lighter bashguard for SLX double... I want it under 30lb without any loss of strength and keeping Wotan fork..


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*update...*

latest updates:
New Ultimate Seatpost 34,9/330: 152,5g
Yaban 210SL chain (106 links): 218g
Dura Ace 7900 rear Derailleur: 145g

slowly my Winterbike is getting lighter and lighter as well. i once had a Winterbike because i didn't want to waste my sweet build in the muddy winterseason. now that "spare" bike gets also nicer and nicer

I got a picture of a german weight-weenie showing me the new DA 7900 at just 129g so i decided it was about time to get something lighter as well than my tank of XTR derailleur i used up to now. So i finally got rid of that bulky XTR rubbish...the DA weighs 165g and within 10 minutes i had it down to 145g without even changing the cages. I used just some parts i had in my boxes. The short caged DA works great paired to my 42/27 - 11-32 setup. It's just 40g lighter than the XTR:thumbsup:

So my Winterbike sits at 7,9 kilos at the moment and there's still a lighter saddle and lighter wheels to be installed...


----------



## Megaclocker (Sep 28, 2005)

How did you polish you Next LP to have a nice finish like that ?

Mine look like crap after sanding.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Megaclocker said:


> How did you polish you Next LP to have a nice finish like that ?
> 
> Mine look like crap after sanding.


I didn't do anything. These cranks were silver when new...i think that's the best colour to hide any wear and tear. I have them since about 2001...


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

~What about changing the cableroute too?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Batas said:


> ~What about changing the cableroute too?


No - i don't plan to do that here. As mentioned i originally tried to have a Winterbike as basic as possible so i don't have to care when i ride in mud,snow and salt. I want to go riding whenever i feel like and not having to care about my bike.

I have no uber-exotic parts like Schmolke or THM, no expensive Tune or Notube whelsets etc...yet i will get to 7.8 kilos with RaceKing 2,2" tires...Not bad for a spare mud-bike


----------



## Soya (Jun 22, 2007)

Think that rear derailleur will handle a 32/44 on a 11-34?


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Soya said:


> Think that rear derailleur will handle a 32/44 on a 11-34?


no-i don't think it will take 34t. i had to slightly release some tension on the B-tension screw in order to prevent the upper pulley from touching the tip of the 32t cogs. And i already use smaller diameter 10t pulleys...

as always Shimano limits its use up to 28t cogs in the rear if i'm not mistaken.But it definitely works on my 11-32 cassette


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Megaclocker said:


> How did you polish you Next LP to have a nice finish like that ?
> 
> Mine look like crap after sanding.


Did you use a polish wheel and some Mother's?

BB


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

and the updated picture. still missing is the lighter Saddle...

updated parts spec:
frame: Scott Scale 10, size M, 1114g
fork: SID WC 08, 80mm,185mm steerer, crown lockout, 1438g
headset: Ritchey WCS semi integrated 63g
expander: FRM 14g
a-headcap+bolt: Tune carbon 4g
spacers: 10mm carbon , 4g
stem: Syntace F99 Ti , 120mm, 103g
handlebar: FRM Web-Bar Carbon, 105g
grips: Scott Foam 14g
shifters: SRAM Plasma 153g
brakes: Avid Juicy Ultimate (with Alligator 160/140 rotors,alloy bolts) ca. 650g
wheelset: American Classic hubs/Alex XCR Pro scandium rims/DT Rev/aluminium nippels 1277g
tires: Continental RaceKing 2.2 Supersonic (470g+474g)
inner tubes: prototype Innertube
rimtape: Ritchey WCS 12g
skewers: Pre-Series PoP 43g
BB: KCNC scandium 68-108, 139g
crank fixing bolts: KCNC 25g
crankset: RaceFace Next LP with 42/27 chainrings, 494g
pedals: Eggbeater 3Ti with 4Ti axles, 175g
front derailleur: Shimano Dura Ace 10s with Al-bolts,Speen Top-Pull adapter, 83g
rear derailleur: DA 7900, tuned 145g
chain: Yaban 210SL, 10s, 218g
casette: Nino's Titanium 11-32SL 167g
seatpost collar: Carbon 5,3g
seatpost: New Ultimate carbon 34,9/330 , 152g
saddle: Token carbon 107g
cables: Alligator i-link ca. 60g
holder for Garmin GPS: ca. 20g

actual total on my hanging scale: 7920g / 17,5 lbs

To be changed soon :
Parts of Passion Saddle 66g....- 43g
Parts of Passion skewers 39g....- 4g


----------



## barratana (Oct 3, 2007)

Hi Nino,

When we will see the new wheels that you´re building?


----------



## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Can that be called an anoretic bike? I would be afraid to ride it.


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

Nino,

That's one good lookin' Scotty


----------



## dinoadventures (May 2, 2008)

I don't usually dig the go-fast graphics on bikes, but that's a darn clean looking Scott. 

White stickers on the fork would totally make this.


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*wheels...*



barratana said:


> Hi Nino,
> 
> When we will see the new wheels that you´re building?


i already showed those wheels elsewhere in the "Alex XCR Pro Scandium rim"-thread:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=470807&highlight=alex+scandium

the assembled wheelset weighs:
front: 600g
rear: 715g
Wheelset: 1315g

I then bought myself some non-eyeletted rims off ebay and hoped for some sub-300g rims...not so: those rims were 305 + 314g ! My wheelbuilder was less than positive about them as well and said they were a pain to lace and he wouldn't trust them as much as he would the ones with eyelets. Anyway - i just wanted a lighter wheel so i laced these rims to Amclassic hubs i took out of my old and trusty AC wheelset. Now this wheelset weighs 1277g. I installed them just last week and that's the ones you see mounted on my bike above. I was using the other wheelset until now and it was performing really well.

Anyway - i built 3 sets of those wheels. They came out light and they don't cost a fortune.

As you may note i don't spend my money in "uber-exotica". No Schmolke or AX-Lightness, no THM or Tune Carbone...my bikes are pretty light also without sponsoring manufacturers that ask insane prices.


----------



## Mighty Matt (Apr 22, 2009)

where can i get one of those frames in the u.s. and how much will it cost?


----------



## wannabeRacer (Feb 9, 2004)

amazingly light nino and at a good price

I need to practice wheel building, so I can build myself a nice wheelset


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Prototype...*



Mighty Matt said:


> where can i get one of those frames in the u.s. and how much will it cost?


sorry - this frame is a prototype and isn't available in these colours!


----------



## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Still Loven your Black Theme*

Like I said before your bike theme off all black is killer.... Exile Choppers all the way...

Excited to see the cut down post weight...

?? for ya on Syntace... Just installed mine.. seems like one clamp had to much space when bolted down compared to the other... I read somewhere before about this and am pretty dam sure you the one with the solution. Can't find that specific thread...

I also installed my old Ti Bolts M5x20 .. any advice on cutting them down.....


----------



## Mighty Matt (Apr 22, 2009)

is the progress team sl avaible in the u.s. and if so how much does it cost.


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## Mighty Matt (Apr 22, 2009)

are the Progress Team SL frames avaible in the us? alos about how much will one cost?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Google?*



Mighty Matt said:


> are the Progress Team SL frames avaible in the us? alos about how much will one cost?


Google - 2 clicks:

http://www.progressbicycles.com/cgi/inicio.aspx?i2=ES&cat11=507&cat22=515

- PROGRESS USA - 
Tel: 408-269-1588
Fax: 408-269-1721
[email protected]


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Winter is over now, what are you riding Nino?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Zachariah said:


> Winter is over now, what are you riding Nino?


Well - we had a very hard and long winter this year. Trails were covered with a lot of snow which was great to ride on for several weeks but early january things started to get frozen and then the offroad riding became no good anymore. Tempeatures at the same time were very,very low for a long time so real hard circumstances to get some riding done. I still rode on iced trails for quite some time. I kept my riding in the flats as there was just too much snow and ice up in the hills. As soon as the streets dried some i picked up riding on the road. So basically i prepared myself a lot on the road this winter/spring. I used my fender-equipped commuter when streets were still covered with salt/water and as soon as things got dry i took out my roadbike.
I trained a lot with some buddies who race the swiss XC-series. I did a lot of road+mtb miles with them and got in a great shape. I also put myself on a diet and lost almost 10 lbs over the winter. So right now i'm in pretty good shape for a guy that isn't racing at all I did my usual 1 week holiday in Italy where i always ride in the "racers" group. It felt great this year. I took along my Winterbike and the ballonlike Conti tires and SID fork sure made a big difference.The terrain down there is really technical and the bike was just great. I also was in great shape so i never actually had to suffer at all. I came back from Italy on friday night and on saturday already competed in a motocross race over here in Switzerland. It was 6 months i didn't ride my bike and i still won my class. We had electronic timekeeping and i was surprised to see myself doing 5th fastest time overall out of 150 riders on my 11 year old CR 125 (with a 20 year old Mugen-cylinder!!). I only lost 1.2 seconds to the fastest guy on 1:30 lap times...not too bad considering the faster guys were riders of switzerlands pro class using 450s! But don't ask me how i survived the races with 15 minutes +2 laps...I was fast for about 3 laps... after that i basically just hung onto the handlebars...That day i did 3 times about 18 minutes of motocross but afterwards my body felt like i did 1 week of Tour de France. It's hard to describe the punishment motocross is for your body. It's so much more demanding than every other sport i know of. After each race i was basically completely exhausted. Anyway - beeing in great shape definitely helped me a lot. At age 42 you need to work more to be able to compete with the young guys out there. But getting compliments for your riding and beeing able to beat the young guys once again was definitely worth it:thumbsup:


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## oldassracer (Mar 26, 2009)

*crank set up*

saw your post on the older raceface next lp cranks you use with ISIS bb in 2x config

Would appreciate details on the setup.
What bb length do you use? What chain line are you getting?

Did you finally end up using a 108 or 113?

Would you suggest a KCNC bb or something else?

thanks


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## Mighty Matt (Apr 22, 2009)

wow 

way to resurrect an old thread. 

by the way nino has been banned and can't post a reply to your question


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## oldassracer (Mar 26, 2009)

That's too bad but maybe someone else can provide some info?
Niño actually had some good info


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

oldassracer said:


> That's too bad but maybe someone else can provide some info?
> Niño actually had some good info


Do you read sticky threads?

Good info?


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