# Poor Man’s 5010?



## Ted VT (7 mo ago)

I’m looking for a playful mid travel trail bike with 27.5s, modern but not enduro numbers.
The 5010 seems like the perfect choice except for the price tag. Would honestly rather an alloy frame as well.
Anything comparable sub $3k? Marin Rift Zone 27.5 3 seems like it might be in the ballpark. I’ll have to do some test rides this summer but any leads would be appreciated!


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

A second hand 5010?


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## Ted VT (7 mo ago)

the simplest answer is most often correct


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

Bird Aether 7 is in that ballpark, might be worth a look. I love my AM9.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Used is your best bet.

Of course your question begs another question: we hubs 5010?

Danny id great rider, he makes the bike, not the other way around.

I’d get a used Shred Dogg


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## meschenbruch (Jan 15, 2017)

Ibis mojo 3 or 4 if you can find a second hand one. giant trance or trance x depending on how much travel you want.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I have a '17 RM Thunderbolt BC frame in medium.









Rocky Mountain Thunderbolt BC Edition Review


As the trail bike storm brews, it’s time to set the scales and verify if the Rocky Mountain Thunderbolt BC Edition lives up the brand’s high standards.




enduro-mtb.com





Prob can get something within budget:

Frame: 1k
Fork: 400 an old '16 RS Pike maybe
Wheelset: 550
Drivetrain: 1x10 Shimano $400
Brakes: 250 set
Tires $140 set
Dropper 200
Saddle 60
Stem 30
Bar 50
Grips 20
Pedals 60

What else? That's like 3200.

I thought Rift Zone 27.5 is sub par and outdated. Rift Zone 29 I know is fairly up to date.


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## Ted VT (7 mo ago)

The Bird looks very compelling. Been thinking about a Trance X too but may be too much travel/too raked out. Would love to demo one.

Always scanning the classifieds for used too but bikes are holding their value like crazy right now!
As for the Rift Zone 27.5, Marin told me they’re updating geo for next year to be more in line with the RZ 29. We’ll see.

Thanks for the suggestions so far!


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## weeksy950 (Jan 11, 2012)

Bird is MILES away from a 5010 in terms of geometry.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

I was down to a 5010 and a Shred Dogg and went SD for price and US manufacturing reasons. That said, poor mans anything it ain't, even with some of the lower spec I went with to get riding now. For where I live, in a flat and relatively featureless area, a bike like these helps to make your own fun off what little is there without really compromising on descents and chunk that doesn't exist at all. It will be good enough for where I travel. 

Used is definitely the way to go.


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## Ted VT (7 mo ago)

weeksy950 said:


> Bird is MILES away from a 5010 in terms of geometry.


Is it? 99 spokes looks strikingly similar. Much different ride?


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## Mac_89 (Mar 24, 2021)

I had a play on a Nukeproof Reactor 275 a while ago. That's a fun bike.


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

I have a 2017 5010 S model in near pristine condition. 5000$ new, with over 4000$ in Mods including Fox 36 fork, DPX2 shock, Ibis/I9 carbon wheels, XX1, MRP Ramp etc. Will sell for 3k!!!


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## weeksy950 (Jan 11, 2012)

Ted VT said:


> Is it? 99 spokes looks strikingly similar. Much different ride?
> 
> View attachment 1986865


Bird is LLS, 5010 is far more conventional


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## dllawson819 (Feb 22, 2019)

meschenbruch said:


> Ibis mojo 3 or 4 if you can find a second hand one. giant trance or trance x depending on how much travel you want.


You can also convert an older Mojo HD or HD-R to 27.5.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

weeksy950 said:


> Bird is MILES away from a 5010 in terms of geometry.


If you drop down a size it isn't quite as crazy as you'd think. Yes, it is absolutely longer, lower, and slacker, but as a package it just works, and there aren't many better bikes for the money. 

While the numbers are pretty "enduro" even my coil spring AM9 is pretty playful, and the feel of the bike is not as far removed from my Revel Ranger as you would expect based on the numbers and weight difference.


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Used is your best bet.
> 
> Of course your question begs another question: we hubs 5010?
> 
> ...


Did Picard hack NurseBen's account?


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

dllawson819 said:


> You can also convert an older Mojo HD or HD-R to 27.5.


Yeah but the geometry is crap either way.


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## weeksy950 (Jan 11, 2012)

I had an Aether 7 in a large, some thoughts are it was a size too big and I should have gone ML. The problem was that I had issues at times getting it around corners, it ran wide, or I did, maybe a bit of both. 

Ended up selling it for a Whyte G170 and then to my current Trek Fuel ex9.8


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## LetsGoOutside (Sep 4, 2005)

Diamondback Release is a previous generation 5010 clone in geo and suspension platform. If you have ridden the 5010 and like the VPP this will get you were you need to be on a budget.


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## DGUSMC (Jan 29, 2021)

Ted VT said:


> I’m looking for a playful mid travel trail bike with 27.5s, modern but not enduro numbers.
> The 5010 seems like the perfect choice except for the price tag. Would honestly rather an alloy frame as well.
> Anything comparable sub $3k? Marin Rift Zone 27.5 3 seems like it might be in the ballpark. I’ll have to do some test rides this summer but any leads would be appreciated!


Transition Scout. Has alloy option. Closer to enduro geo but not crazy.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

Scout was on my list as well and I got to rent one in Pisgah last year. It was awesome but as you say a bit more towards enduro than short travel play bike. That said, it is still a very very awesome bike that would not dissapoint.


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## DGUSMC (Jan 29, 2021)

fly4130 said:


> Scout was on my list as well and I got to rent one in Pisgah last year. It was awesome but as you say a bit more towards enduro than short travel play bike. That said, it is still a very very awesome bike that would not dissapoint.


I would also consider the Ripley AF in this category if price goes is the major concern. I ended up getting a Spur but these are hard to find and not cheap. The Spur, Ripley, Tallboy “new layout” will for sure eat into the market for the 130-140 bikes. I think people are starting to conclude that capability is as much or more about the GEO than the travel.


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## N54tt (Jan 7, 2022)

Ted VT said:


> I’m looking for a playful mid travel trail bike with 27.5s, modern but not enduro numbers.
> The 5010 seems like the perfect choice except for the price tag. Would honestly rather an alloy frame as well.
> Anything comparable sub $3k? Marin Rift Zone 27.5 3 seems like it might be in the ballpark. I’ll have to do some test rides this summer but any leads would be appreciated!


For what it’s worth I like my RZ3 27.5 If and when I plan to upgrade to a carbon 27.5 with a touch more travel….I’ll probably get a 5010. Was very close to buying a 5010 frameset but just not a fan of the current colors.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

weeksy950 said:


> I had an Aether 7 in a large, some thoughts are it was a size too big and I should have gone ML. The problem was that I had issues at times getting it around corners, it ran wide, or I did, maybe a bit of both.
> 
> Ended up selling it for a Whyte G170 and then to my current Trek Fuel ex9.8


Bird mtbs have CS that are quite short for their WB, enough that their weight distro is skewed much heavier on the rear wheel (more than 60% weight on back). This creates a lofty front end, as opposed to a planted front end that corners better. Lofty is great if you're actually trying to be skilled with the wheel off the ground though. Downsizing would've helped with getting more weight on the front. Bird's kind of like Canfield in this regard, but their one-piece rear triangles add a level of burliness.

I like Whyte's long-term ownership experience. They seem to be quite army-proof in regards to maintenance. Trek seems to trade that off for aesthetics and stiffer responsive feel, but a bit less impact resistant.


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## DGUSMC (Jan 29, 2021)

Varaxis said:


> Bird mtbs have CS that are quite short for their WB, enough that their weight distro is skewed much heavier on the rear wheel (more than 60% weight on back). This creates a lofty front end, as opposed to a planted front end that corners better. Lofty is great if you're actually trying to be skilled with the wheel off the ground though. Downsizing would've helped with getting more weight on the front. Bird's kind of like Canfield in this regard, but their one-piece rear triangles add a level of burliness.
> 
> I like Whyte's long-term ownership experience. They seem to be quite army-proof in regards to maintenance. Trek seems to trade that off for aesthetics and stiffer responsive feel, but a bit less impact resistant.


Short CS overly weights the rear only if the reach and your body position do not compensate. Can’t ride a well designed long reach bike the same way as you did your old 70 degree HT. 

Short chain stays have some definite trade-offs (high speed stability, etc) but a light front end is as much about technique as geo


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

DGUSMC said:


> Short CS overly weights the rear only if the reach and your body position do not compensate. Can’t ride a well designed long reach bike the same way as you did your old 70 degree HT.
> 
> Short chain stays have some definite trade-offs (high speed stability, etc) but a light front end is as much about technique as geo


Most weight is on the BB.

You mention reach and HA, but fork length and fork offset also play a role in weight distro. These all add up to the front-center. Rear Center to Front center would be most accurate to estimate balance, but geo tables don't list this so WB to CS works in a pinch to better determine balance, since the FC is basically WB minus the CS.

Being forced to use different technique can be considered a con/negative, as it requires you to be ready in a less natural/neutral/relaxed position. A bike is most balanced when the bike rides best in the position you feel is most intuitive to use, using the least effort to hold. Bikes that you feel need re-training to ride, where re-training seems counterproductive (putting you in a position that makes others techniques in your bag of tricks harder to access), are less balanced. Balance is subjective. Some people prefer more weight on the front since they like slack STA bikes, as the handling is top notch with their arse planted on the saddle (or hovering above/behind it), esp if this position is where they spend 99% of their time.

Anyway, it's not a bad thing to suggest in this thread, but I think a short WB is king in terms of playfulness and agility. To balance out a short WB, you need a very short CS. Something like 1150mm WB with 415mm CS would feel balanced to someone my size and weight, IME, but I wouldn't mind slightly more rearward weight bias if I wanted to be more airborne. Not like a 1150 WB bike is going to be setting fast times, due to how unstable it is. Short WB bikes make bumps feel bigger and disruptive because the bike pitches/angles up a lot more compared to a longer WB bike, but this makes even tame trails more lively and engaging.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

I’m riding a modern geo bike with pretty short chainstays (425mm). 138/150mm Canfield Tilt.

It does require you to lean into the front end a little to load the front wheel. So I do it. No big deal, it is just a technique you learn.. In return I get a bike that is nimble and playful. 

I guess it must be a little less stable straighline bombing at mach-stupid, but thats not all that interesting to me anyway.


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## positr0nic (Aug 4, 2017)

Canyon spectral 7 maybe?


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## LanceWeaklegs (Dec 24, 2019)

DGUSMC said:


> Transition Scout. Has alloy option. Closer to enduro geo but not crazy.


Get one soon. They are at the end of their model life. Probably no more for 2023.


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## LanceWeaklegs (Dec 24, 2019)

There’s 4 different versions of the 5010 be careful if you’re buying used. These are 4 different bikes.


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## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

Banshee spitfire. Love mine!!!


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Banshee Spitfire V3. 27.5, 135mm, aluminum, and the geo isn’t super long.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Intense Primer 27.5. At 2800g it's black aluminum.


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## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

The 5010 is a great bike. Fezzari has some very good alloy trail 27.5 bikes full suspension under 3k. The transition Scout alloy nx is around $3800..maybe find a used one or buy a frame and use older parts? I second the nukeproof Reactor as well. They are no longer a good deal but if you could find a used one. I just built a 29 version (again).


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## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

Oh and the Vitus escarpe 27 ...


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## foggnm (Aug 17, 2015)

Rocky mountain instinct alloy 27.5


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