# The mother of all apology speeches (lance mega thread)



## Stugotz (Dec 14, 2011)

It's coming. Probably this weekend at the Livestrong anniversary party.

I think it will go like this:

1) He had no choice but to dope as a cyclist.
2) He could not admit because the people with cancer were counting on him.
3) He will now devote his remaining life to fighting cancer.

The interesting information will come in interviews afterward. I cannot see Armstrong not passing the blame around.

 An interesting blog post


----------



## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

I doubt it . . . a confession would lead to substantial legal issues at this point, no? Perjury, etc.


----------



## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

Lance is ruined. 

Now he is just some doper who was THAT much better then all the other dopers. 

What a dope.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

He won't say a thing and he will ignore questions about it, even though the media will be there in droves in hopes that he will say something.

Livestrong itself has been very quiet in their PR stuff lately. I have seen one blog post about Lance stepping down and one or two tidbits about moving on and trying to redirect attention to cancer patients. 

I could see Lance pulling out his famous sharp tongue if the media is too pushy.


----------



## Camaleon (May 10, 2006)

Better life through chemicals!
He beat them all, including the system. 
More power to Lance.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

*i think*

that this will happen inevitably and regardless of his actions...

it'd be nice if he owned to it. it would allow most of us to move on...



OO7 said:


> I doubt it . . . a confession would lead to substantial legal issues at this point, no? Perjury, etc.


----------



## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

Lance wont be admitting anything, its not in his make up, he might have had the guts to cheat his way to 7 tours and beat cancer but he wont have the guts to admit and come clean on this....


----------



## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

osokolo said:


> it'd be nice if he owned to it. it would allow most of us to move on...


You really have problems if you can't move on due to Lance's doping allegations. I think the only sad thing about this whole incident is that, it is very apparent, doping is nearly the only way to compete in professional cycling (roadies).

That all said, Livestrong has, at the very least, brought a large focus the horrible illness that is cancer and the hopes to find a way to fight it. He has also been a huge influence which boosted the American passion in all forms of cycling. I would bet this also improved the health of many folks who wouldn't have cycled before this passion. More ppl are healthier and happier now from Lance's motivation to get on a bike and just pedal.


----------



## Camaleon (May 10, 2006)

Pedal damn it!


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

jetboy23 said:


> You really have problems if you can't move on due to Lance's doping allegations.


i think you are onto something here...



> That all said, Livestrong has, at the very least, brought a large focus the horrible illness that is cancer and the hopes to find a way to fight it. He has also been a huge influence which boosted the American passion in all forms of cycling. I would bet this also improved the health of many folks who wouldn't have cycled before this passion. More ppl are healthier and happier now from Lance's motivation to get on a bike and just pedal.


maybe, if it wasn't for McDonald's and Krispy Kreme....

he could have achieved the same influence without cheating...


----------



## xcguy (Apr 18, 2004)

"Cheating" "Ruined" LOL Lance Haters dancing on his virtual grave. Dance on, Haters.


----------



## mikeridesabike (Feb 16, 2009)

Livestrong contributes almost nothing to actual cancer research. Interesting article in Outside a while back:

Lance Armstrong and Livestrong | Lance Armstrong | OutsideOnline.com


----------



## Huskywolf (Feb 8, 2012)

The two most traumatizing moments of my life.... finding out Santy Claus is not real and Lance being a cheater.

Go figure.


----------



## bigpedaler (Jan 29, 2007)

Why would he even BE there? He stepped down from the Foundation. If it was ME, I wouldn't be anywhere NEAR the thing.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

mikeridesabike said:


> Livestrong contributes almost nothing to actual cancer research. Interesting article in Outside a while back:
> 
> Lance Armstrong and Livestrong | Lance Armstrong | OutsideOnline.com


How many times do I have to say this? They don't claim to. The organization promotes survivorship support. They give money to orgs who provide that support and they offer support services of their own. It is an important aspect of caring for cancer patients that was not receiving much attention in the past.

I am a recipient of some of those services. Livestrong paid for me to attend a weekend survivorship retreat where I got to meet other survivors my age. I made some lifelong friends there and learned a great deal about the emotional recovery survivors go through.

The organization also works with the YMCA to provide memberships to survivors so they can get healthy again.

You don't have to fund research to be a viable cancer charity. I am a volunteer with a couple other orgs that provide survivorship support and not a dime to research. It doesn't make them any less important.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

bigpedaler said:


> Why would he even BE there? He stepped down from the Foundation. If it was ME, I wouldn't be anywhere NEAR the thing.


He is still a member of the board even though he no longer leads the organization. Not to mention, the speaking engagement has likely been set for some time.


----------



## mikeridesabike (Feb 16, 2009)

Huskywolf said:


> The two most traumatizing moments of my life.... finding out Santy Claus is not real and Lance being a cheater.
> 
> Go figure.


Santa isn't real? I know you had to make that one up.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

*don't want to argue with you*

out of respect for what you've gone through, and you obviously benefited from Livestrong. if you were the only person they helped - Livestrong is worth of it's existence.

i guess one of the points that few people are trying to make is represented by this statement:

"The issue with Lance Armstrong isn't whether he has done good for cancer victims," accounting professor Mark Zimbelman wrote on his blog Fraudbytes, in a post comparing Mortenson to Armstrong, "but rather, whether he first cheated to beat his opponents, then used his fraudulent titles to help promote an organization that appears to do good but also enriches a fraudster."

as far as i am concerned - that is the summary of Livestrong issue and how LA used it to project his public image as well as a powerful protection shield behind which he ran a successful cheating operation...



NateHawk said:


> How many times do I have to say this? They don't claim to. The organization promotes survivorship support. They give money to orgs who provide that support and they offer support services of their own. It is an important aspect of caring for cancer patients that was not receiving much attention in the past.
> 
> I am a recipient of some of those services. Livestrong paid for me to attend a weekend survivorship retreat where I got to meet other survivors my age. I made some lifelong friends there and learned a great deal about the emotional recovery survivors go through.
> 
> ...


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Yeah so Lance used his celebrity to promote Livestrong and in turn hid behind Livestrong. I get it. And how they have helped me and other cancer survivors does not excuse anything Lance has done. But big picture, here. Are you saying that cheating and being a lying aggressive @$$ by one guy outweighs the good accomplished by the organization? The previous poster and that Outside article were not even comparing that. They are saying that Livestrong does not support research and implying therefore the charity hides money and spends it suspiciously and is an overall shady organization.

The situation is FAR more complicated than that. Lance is a very complicated person and this is a complicated situation. On the one had he is supremely arrogant and has pushed to ruin people who have tried to uncover his doping and yet on the other he helped create and promote this organization that has helped so many cancer survivors.

I am saying you don't have to throw it all out. Condemn and punish the lying and cheating and all of that stuff. Let the good work continue by supporting cancer survivors locally and globally.


----------



## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

xcguy said:


> "Cheating" "Ruined" LOL Lance Haters dancing on his virtual grave. Dance on, Haters.


LOL, I think those two words are just about as spot on as you can give.
No hating about them, they are as factual as you will get in these threads lol
yes he cheated, and yes he is ruined, i think you are confusing 'hating' with the facts....:thumbsup:


----------



## mtbmatty (Dec 5, 2007)

NateHawk said:


> On the one had he is supremely arrogant and has pushed to ruin people who have tried to uncover his doping and yet on the other he helped create and promote this organization that has helped so many cancer survivors.
> 
> I am saying you don't have to throw it all out. Condemn and punish the lying and cheating and all of that stuff. Let the good work continue by supporting cancer survivors locally and globally.


 Jekyll & Hyde for sure!!

Thanks for the breakdown on livestrong natehawk, I wasn't 100% sure what the organization was about.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

it is just a silly bicycle race.
why should anyone really care


----------



## ppedrayes (Apr 11, 2012)

lance will always be the best cyclist there ever was!!!


----------



## HarryCallahan (Nov 2, 2004)

NateHawk said:


> Yeah so Lance used his celebrity to promote Livestrong and in turn hid behind Livestrong. I get it. And how they have helped me and other cancer survivors does not excuse anything Lance has done. But big picture, here.
> ...
> 
> The situation is FAR more complicated than that. Lance is a very complicated person and this is a complicated situation. On the one had he is supremely arrogant and has pushed to ruin people who have tried to uncover his doping and yet on the other he helped create and promote this organization that has helped so many cancer survivors.
> ...


This is very well said. I think there are a lot of angles to this, and most folks don't sift through them.


----------



## Camaleon (May 10, 2006)

I just want to ask.
Do you guys really believe that his opponents were clean?


----------



## jackbombay (Nov 15, 2010)

Camaleon said:


> I just want to ask.
> Do you guys really believe that his opponents were clean?


 But Lance must have cheated more, thats why he won, hell, any of us could with the TDF if we doped, right?


----------



## Camaleon (May 10, 2006)

jackbombay said:


> But Lance must have cheated more, thats why he won, hell, any of us could with the TDF if we doped, right?


He did it better that's for sure! 
That still make him the best in my book. 
I agree 100% with you, all that you need to do to win the TDF several times is to dope. 
Why do you think there's a war on dope?


----------



## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

Camaleon said:


> I just want to ask.
> Do you guys really believe that his opponents were clean?


That's actually the reason that the UCI has said they're just going to leave the race winner position blank instead of moving everyone up a spot should they decide to strip Lance of his titles based on the USADA evidence, because every single other person on the podium in all of those years has also been involved in doping allegations.

Pretty sad state of affairs for road cycling (not like MTB has been squeaky clean over that same time period). Assuming that he did dope, if everyone else was doping too, did he still win? Or in that case, with no eligible riders, did the race just not actually take place?


----------



## roadie scum (Jan 21, 2011)

Camaleon said:


> Why do you think there's a war on dope?


To rid the world of dopes?


----------



## Hollyw00d (Oct 8, 2012)

wait, Lance was doping???

my life = ruined.
my reality = shattered.

What next????? NFL players on steroids?? WWF wrestling not real??

Raise your hand if you've never cheated, or taken a short cut to tilt the odds in your favor?

I'm not advocating that he get to keep the titles (frankly I don't care), but this is getting as bad as Roger Clemens... A CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATION????? Our nation is in shambles (relatively) and we're more concerned with who's Snookie's babies daddy, or which athlete cheated.

Am I the only one who sees a serious disconnect here?


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

roadie scum said:


> To rid the world of dopes?


whoa!

dope is an excellent prepping compound for assembling pipes


----------



## Hollyw00d (Oct 8, 2012)

highdelll said:


> whoa!
> 
> dope is an excellent prepping compound for assembling pipes


and then using in pipes.................. or so I learn from TV shows..


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

NateHawk said:


> Yeah so Lance used his celebrity to promote Livestrong and in turn hid behind Livestrong. I get it. And how they have helped me and other cancer survivors does not excuse anything Lance has done. But big picture, here. Are you saying that cheating and being a lying aggressive @$$ by one guy outweighs the good accomplished by the organization? The previous poster and that Outside article were not even comparing that. They are saying that Livestrong does not support research and implying therefore the charity hides money and spends it suspiciously and is an overall shady organization.


Nate,

i was not talking about Livestrong. I was talking about LA.

here is another quote from the same article. it strikingly applies to our discussion around here - does it not?

"Others noticed an annoying tendency: whenever questions about doping arose, Armstrong and his supporters changed the subject to his cancer work, a tactic that the bicycling website NY Velocity called "raising the cancer shield." After the 60 Minutes segment on Armstrong aired in May-complete with damning claims from ex-teammate Tyler Hamilton that Armstrong had cheated-Armstrong's lawyers denied the allegations and quickly invoked Livestrong in his defense. In their one legal brief to date, they blasted the feds over alleged leaks to 60 Minutes that, they said, were intended to legitimize "the government's investigation of a national hero, best known for his role in the fight against cancer."



> The situation is FAR more complicated than that. Lance is a very complicated person and this is a complicated situation.


i don't see it complicated at all. justice will happen to Lance - the way it is destined to happen. whether he is complicated or not - has nothing to do with the fact that he deceived the world - and he really did not have to. whether he is complicated or not will not affect the outcome of his misjudged decision.

i hope Livestrong lives without him. for the sake of all of us.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

just the same though ^^^ why should we really give a fcuk!

WHY?

All I hear is rhetoric and BS

When it comes down to it, it's 'entertainment'

Sure Footbally players love playing football, but would they if no one was there to watch them?


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

oskolo, Livestrong was brought into it a long time ago, and they are tied to this by Lance. The quote you used really doesn't support your case about it not being about Livestrong, either.



> > ...an organization that *appears to do good* but also enriches a fraudster."
> 
> 
> as far as i am concerned - that is the summary of Livestrong issue and how LA used it to project his public image as well as a powerful protection shield behind which he ran a successful cheating operation...


That bolded text implicates Livestrong in NOT helping cancer survivors. Which is absolutely not the case and is what I was specifically pointing out. It is an idea that as far as I can tell was created by Outside Magazine because everyone who likes to cite the tidbit that "Livestrong does not fund research" always throws out that link. The organization definitely DOES good things. It does help people. The way Lance used it is largely irrelevant now because Lance has been outed and his shield won't work anymore because he is no longer running the organization.


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

highdelll said:


> it is just a silly bicycle race.
> why should anyone really care


Couldn't agree more!! ( i would give you a positive rep but i can't[lol])... i don't even know why the GOV gets involved with issues such as this. one of many wastes of our tax payers money


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

a radio sports guy said one day ( in reference to MLB/Roger Clemens) if all of the players which most are doping and only 1 or 2 are actually doing anything with it then how is it cheating? " ... personally the only sport i support a drug free program is nascar. because if i was driving 500miles at 200mph with others cars within inches i sure as heck wouldn't when them stoned out of their minds


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

NateHawk said:


> oskolo, Livestrong was brought into it a long time ago, and they are tied to this by Lance. The quote you used really doesn't support your case about it not being about Livestrong, either.


i thought you were responding to my post, not all posts on this topic. i know what i think about Livestrong and it is different from what you are trying to tell me - that i think. the quote that i posted describes Livestrong as LA's shield - and it was used widely around here as well. even by you. you do acknowledge that LA is a cheater BUT... and then we go with Livestrong etc...

That was exactly the point of the quote i posted. and you proved it right... not that there is anything wrong with what you did... i understand where you are coming from...



> It is an idea that as far as I can tell was created by Outside Magazine because everyone who likes to cite the tidbit that "Livestrong does not fund research" always throws out that link.........
> 
> The organization definitely DOES good things. It does help people. The way Lance used it is largely irrelevant now because Lance has been outed and his shield won't work anymore because he is no longer running the organization.


Outside Magazine article states:

"An Associated Press story from August 2010 described Livestrong as "one of the top 10 groups funding cancer research in the United States." The comments section of any article about Armstrong will inevitably include messages like this one from ESPN.com: "keep raising millions for cancer research lance, and ignore the haters." At one point, the foundation brought in a PR consultant to try and clarify the messaging, but Armstrong himself says there's only so much they can do. "We can't control what everybody says they're wearing the bracelets for," he told me.

At the same time, though, Armstrong and his supporters help perpetuate the notion that they are, in fact, helping battle cancer in the lab. "I am here to fight this disease," he angrily told journalist Paul Kimmage at a press conference held during his 2009 comeback."

Livestrong helps a good cause. I don't dispute that. Though the percentage of what it contributes to helping cancer survivors should be higher.

i think you are smart enough to know what my point is.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

shwinn8 said:


> a radio sports guy said one day ( in reference to MBL/Roger Clemens) if all of the players which most are doping and only 1 or 2 are actually doing anything with it then how is it cheating? " ... personally the only sport i support a drug free program is nascar. because if i was driving 500miles at 200mph with others cars within inches i sure as heck wouldn't when them stoned out of their minds


Nice NASCAR reference

But realistically, being 'stoned' or drunk during the race is a non issue - but who was that guy high on acid that killed-it in a F1, Kart? race? - shoot - now I gotta google the intertoobs

**OK it wasn't racing - it was baseball 
snopes.com: Dock Ellis LSD No-Hitter


----------



## jackbombay (Nov 15, 2010)

highdelll said:


> but who was that guy high on acid that killed-it in a F1, Kart? race? - shoot - now I gotta google the intertoobs


Acid isn't considered a performance enhancing drug though, is it?

Searching around I keep finding hits like,



> which is a good LSD for road racing?


 But they are talking about limited slip differentials....


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

jackbombay said:


> Acid isn't considered a performance enhancing drug though, is it?
> 
> ...


is pot?

Ross Rebagliati - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and..


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

highdelll said:


> it is just a silly bicycle race.
> why should anyone really care


This.

I've never idolized or really cared about any "professional" sports. The closest I came I guess was with ski racing, but I was much more happy just out there skiing by myself and encountering and overcoming my own challenges. Lots of people seem to feed upon watching other people overcome challenges. They are sport-spectator fans. They care about what some "team" (of players from all over with no geographic loyalty) does in some random location. They'd rather sit and watch people driving around a circle than go out and having some fun. They'd rather "keep up to date" on all the drama of sports players and their tribulations.

I'm not saying that it's wrong or not fun to watch a game every once and a while, but for some people, being a spectator IS their sport. They are so far into it that it completely wrecks their world when something like this happens, or they learn about WWF, or that you really can't make it to the highest levels in some sports due to genetics.

Some of us just don't care. We only had a passing interest in the first place about the TDF or road racing. The world will move on. The only true hero is you, because YOU get out there and ride, YOU do better than your last ride, YOU do something that you thought wasn't possible. It doesn't matter what OTHER people think, and if you've boxed yourself into a corner where you base so much of your world perception on what other people think and do, you'll end up severely disappointed when the folly of man is shown. I don't think LA has to do or say anything for anyone at this point. You should be able to just move on, and hopefully he can do, and do something better. There is nothing positive or productive doing anything otherwise...


----------



## Enduramil (Mar 1, 2007)

osokolo said:


> that this will happen inevitably and regardless of his actions...
> 
> it'd be nice if he owned to it. it would allow most of us to move on...


It will do nothing to improve road cycling and racing's North American image problem.


----------



## roadie scum (Jan 21, 2011)

He won't own up to anything. Dopers suck.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

And oh yeah; just make an "unlimited class", where you dope and shoot up (and your heart explodes) all you want. When a rider in the "clean"-class is found to be doping, he automatically moves to the "unlimited" class, where his times are probably not as good as the totally-doped-out racers. 

Darwin would take care of the ones shooting up most likely (unless there were benefits that actually did not detract from life in any way).

Problem solved.


----------



## jackbombay (Nov 15, 2010)

highdelll said:


> is pot?


I don't think either of them are in the typical sense of "performance enhancing".


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Jayem said:


> And oh yeah; just make an "unlimited class", where you dope and shoot up (and your heart explodes) all you want. When a rider in the "clean"-class is found to be doping, he automatically moves to the "unlimited" class, where his times are probably not as good as the totally-doped-out racers.
> 
> Darwin would take care of the ones shooting up most likely (unless there were benefits that actually did not detract from life in any way).
> 
> Problem solved.


That is PERFECT!
:thumbsup:


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I know right? It's way too good of an idea to ever happen.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

jackbombay said:


> I don't think either of them are in the typical sense of "performance enhancing".


ok - testosterone?
how about O2?
red blood cells?
Cortisone, Cortisol?

those should be banned - those who say yes should be the 1st to apply to the ban


----------



## jackbombay (Nov 15, 2010)

highdelll said:


> ok - testosterone?
> how about O2?
> red blood cells?
> Cortisone, Cortisol?
> ...


 Yes, absolutely, those change your muscles and change your blood so there is a "physical advantage", where I assume that weed and LSD just give you a mental advantage, but not in all cases, it could make you think you are an orange too like happened to Syd barrett!


----------



## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

All of the top guys were on dope during that time period, who cares.

The sport is cleaner (and riders are slower) now, good.

Don't see why we have to re-hash everything.

Doped or not, this is sick.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

jackbombay said:


> Yes, absolutely, those change your muscles and change your blood so there is a "physical advantage", where I assume that weed and LSD just give you a mental advantage, but not in all cases, it could make you think you are an orange too like happened to Syd barrett!


1- isn't a mental advantage the biggest one?

2- I was being kinda facetious saying all those 'aides' because the are naturally occurring or accepting in the human body.

So you can sit on a couch, do nothing and lower all of those things.
Conversely, you can increase that with normal exercise, then even more with rigorous exercise..then you plateau - until you eat something extra - protein supplements, carbs in a foil, sweat off a yak's nut, etc... where does it stop?


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

jetboy23 said:


> You really have problems if you can't move on due to Lance's doping allegations. I think the only sad thing about this whole incident is that, it is very apparent, doping is nearly the only way to compete in professional cycling (roadies).
> 
> That all said, Livestrong has, at the very least, brought a large focus the horrible illness that is cancer and the hopes to find a way to fight it. He has also been a huge influence which boosted the American passion in all forms of cycling. I would bet this also improved the health of many folks who wouldn't have cycled before this passion. More ppl are healthier and happier now from Lance's motivation to get on a bike and just pedal.


Excellent post :thumbsup:


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

*you are making a valid point there delll*

consequently, it made me wondering...

it is a known fact that if you exercise muscles - you can make them bigger... dope certainly helps... but why does it apply to all muscles but one, arguably the most important one... i was hoping you can shed some light on this subject and maybe suggest a workaround...



highdelll said:


> 1- isn't a mental advantage the biggest one?
> 
> 2- I was being kinda facetious saying all those 'aides' because the are naturally occurring or accepting in the human body.
> 
> ...


----------



## jackbombay (Nov 15, 2010)

highdelll said:


> 1- isn't a mental advantage the biggest one?


 You get high on Acid for 6 months and I'll get shot up with EPO for 6 months and we'll see who can turn the cranks harder, deal?

I knwo what you mean though, the mental game is a big one for sure, but without the "mechanics" (stronger muscles and extra blood) you'll be bringing up the rear no matter what. Maybe we need third party to participate in the test, they'll take EPO and acid for 6 months prior to our race? Who is down? PM me if anyone is interested.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

jackbombay said:


> You get high on Acid for 6 months and I'll get shot up with EPO for 6 months and we'll see who can turn the cranks harder, deal?
> 
> I knwo what you mean though, the mental game is a big one for sure, but without the "mechanics" (stronger muscles and extra blood) you'll be bringing up the rear no matter what. Maybe we need third party to participate in the test, they'll take EPO and acid for 6 months prior to our race? Who is down? PM me if anyone is interested.


good stuff 
I'll take EPO and some LSD! - a-ha!


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

ppedrayes said:


> lance will always be the best cyclist _*doper*_ there ever was!!!


fify :thumbsup:


----------



## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

OPRAH, he's going to do it on OPRAH! 

"On the heels of her much-publicized interview with David Letterman, Oprah just announced her next Big Get: Lance Armstrong, discussing his doping scandal, in the first interview since he was given a lifetime cycling ban by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency last summer and stripped of his seven Tour de France titles.

Oprah will travel to Armstrong's home in Texas for the interview. The cyclist will also address "years of accusations of cheating, and charges of lying about the use of performance-enhancing drugs throughout his storied cycling career," according to an announcement from OWN.

The 90-minute episode of "Oprah's Next Chapter," airing Thursday, Jan. 17 at 9 p.m., will also be live streamed on Oprah.com."

From a Jan 4th article in the New York Times:

In Reversal, Armstrong Is Said to Weigh Admitting Drug Use

"The timeline for Armstrong's deciding whether to confess is unclear, but it is partly based on whether the United States Justice Department will join the whistle-blower lawsuit, which was filed under the False Claims Act. The sole plaintiff of that lawsuit is Floyd Landis, Armstrong's former Postal Service teammate, who was stripped of the 2006 Tour de France title for doping.

If the Justice Department joins the lawsuit as a plaintiff, the case would be more formidable than if Landis pursued it alone. Landis stands to collect up to 30 percent of any money won in the case, which could be in the millions. The team's contract with the Postal Service from 2000 to 2004 was more than $30 million."


----------



## jackbombay (Nov 15, 2010)

> Oprah will travel to Armstrong's home in Texas for the interview.


 That's right, bow before the king!

Or is it too soon to joke about this ish yet?


----------



## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

jackbombay said:


> That's right, bow before the king! Or is it too soon to joke about this ish yet?


Too soon? This is so ripe for parody I can hardly wrap my mind around it....I just hope we haven't all been punked by an Onion article.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

roadie scum said:


> To rid the world of dopes?


Yeah, sure. And why is that is a good thing?

It is a frigging bicycle race. A game. An entertainment.

Nobody cares. And Lance should not admit anything. I would hate to see that USADA self-promoting ****** happy. I do not like him much more than Armstrong in this whole sad story. There was no need to go after Lance, he is not racing anymore, and they did not catch him with tests, like other guys, when he was. Nothing good happened out of this, except cheap entertainment for petty people.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Hollyw00d said:


> wait, Lance was doping???
> 
> my life = ruined.
> my reality = shattered.
> ...


While I like what you write, and totally agree with what you say, I cannot agree with the sentiment inferred when you ask who of us has never cheated in some way. Perhaps I am a complete oddball, but I don't think so, deviant sexual fetishes aside, and I have never cheated or tilted the odds in my favor by taking a short cut. I played competitive rugby for many years in the UK when I was young, and saw nothing of any kind of cheating, apart from the usual biting, hacking and gouging that was a part of that game! The only 'doping' was a pint or two after the match. I raced a National MTB series in the UK in the late 80s, and saw no evidence of anything like that myself, although I would not be surprised if people were using some kind of performance-enhancing stuff at the highest levels. Personally, and I am sure this goes for the great majority of people racing there, I would not have dreamed of trying to cheat in any way. What, after all, is the point of competing if you cheat? What satisfaction of a job well done could there be if you cheat? What, apart from the desire for fame and the greed for financial reward, could be the motivation to try one's best? 
The real sadness in all this, to my mind, is that these desires, fame and money, trump all the positive benefits of competitive sport that, to my mind at least, make it all worthwhile.


----------



## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

rockerc said:


> Hollyw00d said:
> 
> 
> > Raise your hand if you've never cheated, or taken a short cut to tilt the odds in your favor?
> ...


Have you ever used a tire lever? If you used a tire lever you cheated against your tire  You got an advantage. A mechanical one anyway. That follows in the original posters context, but I doubt it was his meaning. Many things can give advantage or tilt odds in favor that are not considered bad.


----------



## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

daves4mtb said:


> I blame George Bush. They're both Texans, right?


Well, W. is maybe, kinda, sorta but not really a Texan; all hat and no cattle, even though he (technically) has a ranch. 
They did both spend "formative" years in Midland, though (Lance all and W. some).


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

sxotty said:


> Have you ever used a tire lever? If you used a tire lever you cheated against your tire  You got an advantage. A mechanical one anyway. That follows in the original posters context, but I doubt it was his meaning. Many things can give advantage or tilt odds in favor that are not considered bad.


I hear you, and this brings up the argument of mechanical advantage, and what constitutes cheating and bending the rules in that. Any fan of motor racing knows all about those shenanigans, and advances in technology with bicycles could also be considered an unfair advantage in many instances. However, the way I see it, these tech advances that are driven by competition are a positive, and can be regulated, and indeed are regulated. This system is not always the most efficient in many people's eyes, but it is a lot easier to regulate than chemicals in the human body, and I simply cannot see any positive benefits that could come from artificial and illicit performance enhancing drug usage.

Our perceptions of what is at stake in sport have sucked a lot of the fun out of it.


----------



## Sno (Jan 7, 2013)

sxotty said:


> . Many things can give advantage or tilt odds in favor that are not considered bad.


Just look at the shoe wars between Nike and Reebok... Jump higher, run faster... spend more. The ladies swim suit controversy in the Olympics advantages are all around. Should he have dopped? that is a personal choice he made right or wrong is his problem but it is obvious that all the top guys were doing it. So then do we say that if he had not chances are he would not have won? and to further go down the rabbit hole, if all the top guys were doing it then I guess they were playing on the same level field correct? and lance still kicked thier collective asses.

JMHO :thumbsup:


----------



## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

I think the best that could come out of this is for him to admit his involvement, and in the next breath, throw Trek with all it's big $, and high pressure "we need to win so we can sell more units" expectations, under the bus. 

I've no doubt he did it, but am befuddled why it's not even in the discussion that he had help from his sponsors. That he would carry off a program like this and not have their assistance, or at a minimum, tacit approval, is improbable at best. You just don't do something like this under your bosses nose without them signing off (and handing you a few bucks for supplies too).....


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> I think the best that could come out of this is for him to admit his involvement, and in the next breath, throw Trek with all it's big $, and high pressure "we need to win so we can sell more units" expectations, under the bus.
> 
> I've no doubt he did it, but am befuddled why it's not even in the discussion that he had help from his sponsors. That he would carry off a program like this and not have their assistance, or at a minimum, tacit approval, is improbable at best. You just don't do something like this under your bosses nose without them signing off (and handing you a few bucks for supplies too).....


So true... it is hard to believe that those involved at every level of this issue did not have at least that tacit approval, whether grudgingly or not. If you are going to attempt to clean this mess up, then go into the dark dirty little corners everywhere with that steam jet!


----------



## jekyllrob (Oct 12, 2012)

It will be interesting to see what he does, at this point an admission would just confirm what everyone already knows. I think he's kinda screwed either way on this one...


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

rockerc said:


> While I like what you write, and totally agree with what you say, I cannot agree with the sentiment inferred when you ask who of us has never cheated in some way. Perhaps I am a complete oddball, but I don't think so, deviant sexual fetishes aside, and I have never cheated or tilted the odds in my favor by taking a short cut. *I played competitive rugby* for many years in the UK *when I was young*, and saw nothing of any kind of cheating, apart from the usual biting, hacking and gouging that was a part of that game! The only 'doping' was a pint or two after the match. *I raced a National MTB series* in the UK in the *late 80s*, and saw no evidence of anything like that myself, although I would not be surprised if people were using some kind of performance-enhancing stuff at the highest levels. Personally, and I am sure this goes for the great majority of people racing there, I would not have dreamed of trying to cheat in any way. *What, after all, is the point of competing if you cheat? What satisfaction of a job well done could there be if you cheat? What, apart from the desire for fame and the greed for financial reward, could be the motivation to try one's best?
> The real sadness in all this, to my mind, is that these desires, fame and money, trump all the positive benefits of competitive sport that, to my mind at least, make it all worthwhile*.


Generational perhaps 
It does seem more acceptable to the younger generation ... The original Napster comes to mind.

And yea, a broad brush is being used to claim everyone has cheated at something


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

jekyllrob said:


> it will be interesting to see what he does, at this point an admission would just confirm what everyone already knows. *i think he's kinda screwed either way on this one*...


+1000


----------



## andy f (Jan 13, 2004)

I'm much more put off by the way he treated people than the dope itself. Pressuring others to dope, bending over backwards to destroy the careers and lives of those who opposed him or threatened to expose his doping are far more heinous offenses IMO.


----------



## Fiskare (Sep 5, 2008)

mtbmatty said:


> Jekyll & Hyde for sure!!


Top end athletes aren't like the rest of us. They can't be. Your ally this week might be your enemy next and a true pro will slaughter them as if they never meet them. So yeah, they will drink a beer with you today and rip your heart out tomo...ya know, like a roadie.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

andy f said:


> I'm much more put off by the way he treated people than the dope itself. Pressuring others to dope, bending over backwards to destroy the careers and lives of those who opposed him or threatened to expose his doping are far more heinous offenses IMO.


this ^ ^ ^

same feeling here...


----------



## mdlfcrsis (Jan 3, 2013)

Professional sports suck

If you idolize a sports "hero", you suck


----------



## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

mdlfcrsis said:


> Professional sports suck
> 
> If you idolize a sports "hero", you suck


< my avatar! whoa! hey! me and my kiddo love to watch Messi play but we don't idolize in my house but we're fans. we love to watch the sport played by someone who plays it well..nothing more.

the words "hero" and "battle" aren't words i use in the context of a sport.


----------



## Stugotz (Dec 14, 2011)

June Bug said:


> Too soon? This is so ripe for parody I can hardly wrap my mind around it....I just hope we haven't all been punked by an Onion article.


I found out he already taped Oprah last week so this will definitely be aired on TV. So much for the tough questions!

Oprah/Lance Pharmstrong interview link.


----------



## phoenixnr (Jul 26, 2009)

highdelll said:


> protein supplements, carbs in a foil, sweat off a yak's nut, etc... where does it stop?


Sweat of a yak's nut should be allowed

"So I'm packing my bag for the misty mountain.."


----------



## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

Stugotz said:


> I found out he already taped Oprah last week so this will definitely be aired on TV. So much for the tough questions!Oprah/Lance Pharmstrong interview link.


There are some extremely compelling remarks in the comments sections; however, the funniest is this:

Joe Johnson44
Posted: Wed 1/9/2013 1:28 PM
_Oprah, I've been worried about you since you gave up your syndicated talk show. Please don't allow Lance Armstrong to talk you into taking performance-enhancement drugs._


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Axe said:


> There was no need to go after Lance, he is not racing anymore


he violated countless contracts and agreements by doping, he committed perjury, extorted money, violated numerous state and federal laws, was involved in the international smuggling and distribution of banned substances, unrightfully received millions of dollars in settlements from people he sued after they made public allegations and/or eyewitness accounts of his doping, and so on and so forth. not to mention that he consented to the rules and bylaws of the governing bodies which say that CAN pursue someone well after the fact.

everyone else pretty much admitted to it and came clean. LA did not despite overwhelming evidence and continued to lie, commit perjury, retaliate, blackmail, and intimidate those whom he viewed as enemies and/or threats. so yeah, considering everything there was ample reason to go after him.



Axe said:


> _*they did not catch him with tests*_, like other guys, when he was.


there's absolutely no truth in that statement. he was caught multiple times and it was covered up each time. once by a sizable bribe to the UCI.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

andy f said:


> I'm much more put off by the way he treated people than the dope itself. Pressuring others to dope, bending over backwards to destroy the careers and lives of those who opposed him or threatened to expose his doping are far more heinous offenses IMO.


yup! :thumbsup:


----------



## Twostrokemoto (Jan 10, 2013)

Shittt, If your not first your last, He won regardless


----------



## Twostrokemoto (Jan 10, 2013)

June Bug said:


> There are some extremely compelling remarks in the comments sections; however, the funniest is this:
> 
> Joe Johnson44
> Posted: Wed 1/9/2013 1:28 PM
> _Oprah, I've been worried about you since you gave up your syndicated talk show. Please don't allow Lance Armstrong to talk you into taking performance-enhancement drugs._


Thats hilarious!


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Twostrokemoto said:


> Shittt, If your not first your last, He won regardless


weaksauce trolling, noob.

welcome to MTBR just the same... :thumbsup:


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

jimcarry56 said:


> German Engineering in Da Haus, Ja!


And... straight in with an error: 'Das' Haus Jim, but I like the oblique ref!


----------



## BigRingGrinder (Jan 9, 2013)

I have always been in the extreme minority in my views on professional athletes and doping.

I say let them dope! Hell, give em robotic appendages if their old ones fall off. Not kidding (well, about the doping anyway.... robotics may be a bit over the top).

I played HS football. I am big and strong. I do NOT want to watch professional football players and think to my self "damn, im just as big and fast as they are". Let the football players weigh 300lbs and run a 4.0 40. Let the baseball players hit 100 home runs a season. Let the pitchers throw 120 mph fast balls. Let the Armstrongs win 7 tours in a row.

Professional athletes = super humans. Dope em up for our entertainment. More fun to watch that way!


----------



## Alvinnf (Oct 6, 2011)

Just read Tyler Hamilton's book, good read. Armstrong is an a-hole who doesn't have the capacity to truly apologize. Who cares! That said, the whole sport was corrupt when he was at his peak. He has never lost any credibility for his accomplishments in my mind! Giant A-hole though.


----------



## markymark (Oct 30, 2004)

Online gambling is the scourge of the earth, much like Lance, but this is pretty funny.

Betting odds on whether he'll admit it or not and a bunch of other stuff:

51 to 1 on - Lance to wear a yellow cycling jersey during the interview 

http://www.sportsbet.com.au/betting/entertainment/oprah-lance-armstrong-interview


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

BigRingGrinder said:


> I have always been in the extreme minority in my views on professional athletes and doping.
> 
> I say let them dope! Hell, give em robotic appendages if their old ones fall off. Not kidding (well, about the doping anyway.... robotics may be a bit over the top).
> 
> ...


Interesting viewpoint. Basically you are saying to take pretty much any human factor away from competitive sports and turn it all into another movie or video game? That is pretty extreme! I think at best, if your idea was to materialise, it may spawn 'illicit' underground 'sports' where doping was disallowed and rigorously enforced, so maybe not so bad after all


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Lance owes nobody an apology. 
Even if he did do it, he still owes nobody an apology. 

When it comes right down to it, if you feel hurt or betrayed to the point where you think you deserve an apology from this man because he doped up, then you are an ignorant ass fool.

Everyone with Livestrong still needs to be thanking him. 
If he wouldn't have won, they wouldn't be where they are today. 
If he would not have won. LS would not have been able to do the good it has done. 
If he would not have won, so many cancer patients would not have the hope they had. 

Funny how we can ignore all the good that has happened and turn our back so quickly on somebody just because he was accused of foul play. 

So what if he did it. 
Lets say he didn't do it, and lost. 
Would the winner behind him who also doped have started a foundation like Livestrong and given hope to so many other cancer patients?


----------



## BigRingGrinder (Jan 9, 2013)

rockerc said:


> Interesting viewpoint. Basically you are saying to take pretty much any human factor away from competitive sports and turn it all into another movie or video game? That is pretty extreme! I think at best, if your idea was to materialise, it may spawn 'illicit' underground 'sports' where doping was disallowed and rigorously enforced, so maybe not so bad after all


Human factor = strategy, technique, and execution. Most of the base ball players were doping in his era yet Barry Bonds was one of the few able to put bat on ball often enough to crush that many home runs.

Athletes who dope are able to perform faster, stronger, longer yes.... the brain driving those bodies will still make some vastly better than others.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

BigRingGrinder said:


> Human factor = strategy, technique, and execution. Most of the base ball players were doping in his era yet Barry Bonds was one of the few able to put bat on ball often enough to crush that many home runs.
> 
> Athletes who dope are able to perform faster, stronger, longer yes.... the brain driving those bodies will still make some vastly better than others.


I would argue however that a machine is capable of all of the things you mention, so I am guessing it would not be long before sport would truly become just another video game. I am afraid I don't buy it myself, keep it real I say.


----------



## BigRingGrinder (Jan 9, 2013)

Fair enough. 

Like i said, i am aware my opinion is in the minority.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

BigRingGrinder said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> Like i said, i am aware my opinion is in the minority.


No worries, it takes all sorts!


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

*would you also hail drug cartels*

if they started building hospitals with their drug money?

yeah, they are making the money kinda illegal but let's not fret about it because a fraction of that money is going towards a good cause?

i do not agree with your statement. in my opinion, it is immoral and rotten.



kjlued said:


> Lance owes nobody an apology.
> Even if he did do it, he still owes nobody an apology.
> 
> When it comes right down to it, if you feel hurt or betrayed to the point where you think you deserve an apology from this man because he doped up, then you are an ignorant ass fool.
> ...


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

BigRingGrinder said:


> Human factor = strategy, technique, and execution. Most of the base ball players were doping in his era yet Barry Bonds was one of the few able to put bat on ball often enough to crush that many home runs.
> 
> Athletes who dope are able to perform faster, stronger, longer yes.... the brain driving those bodies will still make some vastly better than others.


i do not disagree with your statement - but what if that, what if this - we are not talking what if, we are talking what it is right now.

right now - dope is illegal. it will never be made legal and free for all. for many reasons. i suspect you will agree with that, will you not?

so forget about it as an option - let's just call it a pipe dream.

and yes - if every one was doped - there would still be those that dope the best, train the most and have more brain... no one is arguing your point there. i just hope that you are not justifying what Lance did with your point...

no one here is saying - go get Lance. most of us are saying - go get them all, including Lance...


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

kjlued said:


> Lance owes nobody an apology.
> Even if he did do it, he still owes nobody an apology.
> 
> When it comes right down to it, if you feel hurt or betrayed to the point where you think you deserve an apology from this man because he doped up, then you are an ignorant ass fool.
> ...


If he had never been diagnosed with cancer ... Do you think he'd have done any of the things some praise him for ?
Just curious.................


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

osokolo said:


> i do not agree with your statement. in my opinion, it is immoral and rotten.


That is fine, because I don't agree with you either. That is the beauty of free will.



bikeabuser said:


> If he had never been diagnosed with cancer ... Do you think he'd have done any of the things some praise him for ?
> Just curious.................


I don't know, maybe/maybe not. 
Maybe not but he would have found another cause.

Doesn't matter though. 
He fought it and beat it without his organization. 
He could have said fvck everyone else afterwards.

Why look a gift horse in the mouth and question it. That is just ridiculous a stupid. 

If you think Lance owes everyone an apology, then answer me one question.

What has he done that directly affected your life?
Were you the second place winner in the TDF that didn't dope up and he because of him you lost?

I seriously doubt it. 
In fact, I seriously doubt the first half of the TDF didn't dope.

So who does he owe an apology too?


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mdlfcrsis said:


> Professional sports suck
> 
> If you idolize a sports "hero", you suck


Word.

Spectator sports are no fun.


----------



## IndecentExposure (Sep 25, 2006)

Lance, if you're out there, come to Colorado. Its legal here now, we don't care. You can sell off what you have left to pay for any of your legal crap. Hit me up, I'll buy you a beer. Dopers are all over the place around here... darn weed is everywhere!


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

osokolo said:


> right now - dope is illegal. it will never be made legal and free for all.


Riding above 15mph in local parks is illegal. Yes, even on a wide open fireroad.

There are hundreds of substances on the banned list for athletes that are perfectly legal, useful and not dangerous.

Heck, what is illegal about filling yourself up with your own frigging blood?

What Lance violated are the rules of the game. And they could not even catch him properly in all those years. Excuse me for not giving a damn about some silly games.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Axe said:


> they could not even catch him properly in all those years


except for all the times during those years when they did catch him with dirty tests. you know, like the time he tested dirty and bribed the UCI to make it go away?


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Jayem said:


> Word.
> 
> Spectator sports are no fun.


Amen



IndecentExposure said:


> Lance, if you're out there, come to Colorado. Its legal here now, we don't care. You can sell off what you have left to pay for any of your legal crap. Hit me up, I'll buy you a beer. Dopers are all over the place around here... darn weed is everywhere!


Word!

Other than a little alky-hol I don't do any other drugs (legal or illegal). 
That being said, there are a lot of things that are illegal to do to your own body that should not be illegal. Many are less harmful than the alcohol I drink.



Axe said:


> There are hundreds of substances on the banned list for athletes that are perfectly legal, useful and not dangerous.
> 
> Heck, what is illegal about filling yourself up with your own frigging blood?
> 
> What Lance violated are the rules of the game. And they could not even catch him properly in all those years. Excuse me for not giving a damn about some silly games.


Amen to that brotha!

Seriously, way too many people seem to be taking this way to seriously even though it has absolutely no effect on their life other than the effect they are letting it have.

If you were in the TDF and not doping then maybe you deserve an apology even though if Lance was not doping, you sill would not have beaten him.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

kjlued said:


> If you were in the TDF and not doping then maybe you deserve an apology even though if Lance was not doping, you sill would not have beaten him.


remind us again how many tours LA won (or for that matter even finished) before he started doping?


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

monogod said:


> remind us again how many tours LA won (or for that matter even finished) before he started doping?


Remind us, who was on a major tour podium in the last fifteen years and definitely, absolutely did not dope and would stood up for targeted non-analytical scrutiny like USADA's?



kjlued said:


> Seriously, way too many people seem to be taking this way to seriously even though it has absolutely no effect on their life other than the effect they are letting it have.


I listen to radio on my way to work - it is flooded with ads for testosterone prescriptions for "feeling tired" and "natural effects of male aging".

I bet a whole lot of those commercial customers are seething with righteous rage against "dopers".


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

^^^^ Amen on both


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

kjlued said:


> If you were in the TDF and not doping then maybe you deserve an apology *even though if Lance was not doping, you sill would not have beaten him*.
> 
> 
> monogod said:
> ...


total red herring since my position is not that everyone on the podium in the last 15 years other than lance was clean.

my request to Axe was made in response to his claim that lance was a podium level TDF racer before he started doping when in fact he was nothing but a pack filler who never even finished.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

Axe said:


> Remind us, who was on a major tour podium in the last fifteen years and definitely, absolutely did not dope and would stood up for targeted non-analytical scrutiny like USADA's?
> 
> I listen to radio on my way to work - it is flooded with ads for testosterone prescriptions for "feeling tired" and "natural effects of male aging".
> 
> I bet a whole lot of those commercial customers are seething with righteous rage against "dopers".


How about Bradley Wiggins? Or Chris Froome?

Axe - if someone is using testosterone supplement to feel less tired or just to provide his partner with some excitement - is a different ball game compared with someone who uses it to gain competitive advantage over his opponents - despite it is a banned performance drug.

Really - what are you trying to do? Defend Lance because everyone else doped?

C'mon man. Sure, if everyone else doped - get them all as well. And they did, for the most part. No one was exempt. How was this "targeted" witch hunt? Most everyone else was caught and stripped off their medals. Lance was one of the last...

I can't believe anyone can defend Lance... for any reason...


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

Axe said:


> Riding above 15mph in local parks is illegal. Yes, even on a wide open fireroad.
> 
> There are hundreds of substances on the banned list for athletes that are perfectly legal, useful and not dangerous.
> 
> ...


Sorry man, your statement is pretty oblivious in my opinion. "They could not even catch him properly"???? What the hell does that mean? They caught him improperly?

What is illegal about filling yourself up with your own blood? Geez...

It is illegal man, as defined by those that know what they are doing and accepted by Lance when he obtained his racing license through USA cycling. If he didn't like this rule - he should not have accepted it. But he accepted it and then violated it hoping that he would not get caught... Well, he got caught. Yep, he violated rules of the game. Penalty is pretty obvious.


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

monogod said:


> total red herring since my position is not that everyone on the podium in the last 15 years other than lance was clean.
> 
> my request to Axe was made in response to his claim that lance was a podium level TDF racer before he started doping when in fact he was nothing but a pack filler who never even finished.


Total red herring since Axe's position was not........awe fvck it, we could go round and round with this one.

Ok, assuming Lance was doping (which he most likely was yet we still have no real proof so we will assume he was)

If you were clean but not even on the podium for several years because all the guys that were on the podium were on doped up and the only way you could beat them and make a name for yourself was to play the same game, would you

a) Dope the fvck up and hope not to get caught
b) Stay clean and just fade away like all the others that stayed clean.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Don't be pissed at Lance, he obviously tried to do it clean but since the guys in charge couldn't catch the other dopers it forced his hand.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

kjlued said:


> Total red herring since Axe's position was not........awe fvck it, we could go round and round with this one.
> 
> Ok, assuming Lance was doping (which he most likely was yet we still have no real proof so we will assume he was)
> 
> ...


i am not pissed at Lance...


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

osokolo said:


> Sorry man, your statement is pretty oblivious in my opinion. "They could not even catch him properly"???? What the hell does that mean? They caught him improperly?


I do not consider this targeted investigation an epitome of justice. There were no analytical positives (which I consider the proper way to catch, like with Contador or Landis), and this procedure is not up to the standards of what is accepted in a real court, which I would consider a proper way.



osokolo said:


> It is illegal man, as defined by those that know what they are doing and accepted by Lance when he obtained his racing license through USA cycling. If he didn't like this rule - he should not have accepted it. But he accepted it and then violated it hoping that he would not get caught... Well, he got caught. Yep, he violated rules of the game. Penalty is pretty obvious.


USADA is private organization enforcing private contracts. It has nothing to do with law as far as "legality" of those substances. Some rules prohibit caffeine or alcohol in competition. It is a private contract between private parties. I do not care about them.

The point is, rules of a silly game do not elevate to wrist wringing about destroyed morals and hefty criminal offense terms used.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

monogod said:


> my request to Axe was made in response to his claim that lance was a podium level TDF racer before he started doping when in fact he was nothing but a pack filler who never even finished.


So who won before that? Riis? Ullrich? Pantani?  LOL.

Admitted and caught doping rules violators.


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Axe said:


> Some rules prohibit caffeine


Good point, I forgot that caffeine could be considered a performance enhancing drug.

I better stop drinking coffee if I don't want to be considered a cheat when I bike.:thumbsup:


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Axe said:


> So who won before that? Riis? Ullrich? Pantani?  LOL.
> 
> Admitted and caught doping rules violators.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

Axe said:


> I do not consider this targeted investigation an epitome of justice. There where no analytical positives (which I consider the proper way to catch, like with Contador or Landis), and this procedure is not up to the standards of what is accepted in a real court, which I would consider a proper way.


you do know he tested positive twice , don't you. both times it was swept under the carpet and a "contribution" to the tune of $100,000 went to UCI. mafia and drug cartels are subject to targeted investigations. what's the difference... dude, he is so guilty - based on all the evidence and eye witnesses - your denial is weird, for the lack of better word...



> USADA is private organization enforcing private contracts. It has nothing to do with law as far as "legality" of those substances. Some rules prohibit caffeine or alcohol in competition. It is a private contract between private parties. I do not care about them.


huh? seriously? USADA is enforcing the same rules as WADA who governs the Olympics and all other major competitions. what do you mean "private"? they are just enforcing rules that Lance and all other athletes ACCEPTED voluntarily when they got their licenses. whether you care or not doesn't matter. Lance ACCEPTED these rules and acknowledged their potential consequences. heck, some geriatrics were caught and banned after tested positive in a friggin' Grand Fondo type of race... it comes with the license (same as Lance) that they took. why is this so hard to accept?



> The point is, rules of a silly game do not elevate to wrist wringing about destroyed morals and hefty criminal offense terms used.


really? if it was just for doping - i'd agree with you.
but for all destroyed careers of those that stood up to him and all the millions of dollars that he won in lawsuits - he deserves everything he is called...


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

kjlued said:


> Good point, I forgot that caffeine could be considered a performance enhancing drug.
> 
> I better stop drinking coffee if I don't want to be considered a cheat when I bike.:thumbsup:


you are hilarious... do you read your posts before you hit "submit"?

if you don't have UCI license or any other racing license and don't race - why would you be considered as a cheat.

if caffeine is banned - then it is banned. if Lance accepted these rules - and then broke them - he should be penalized, no?

no one forced him to accept "silly" rules. he accepted them voluntarily.


----------



## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

Honestly guys, can we move away from the totally ridiculous comparisons to coffee, weed, LSD etc to serious performance enhancing drugs like EPO, really its boarderlining on the totally ridiculous....


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

osokolo said:


> you are hilarious... do you read your posts before you hit "submit"?
> 
> if you don't have UCI license or any other racing license and don't race - why would you be considered as a cheat.
> 
> ...


Yes I do, but people thinking Lance owes everyone an apology isn't ridiculous, it is just plain stupid.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

kjlued said:


> Yes I do, but people thinking Lance owes everyone an apology isn't ridiculous, it is just plain stupid.


i personally do not care if he apologizes or not... he is beyond the point of no return with the damage that he's done to himself. no apology can change anything...

but you are questioning his guilt - and that is what i am debating with you... forget the apology. it is irrelevant...


----------



## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

kjlued said:


> Yes I do, but people thinking Lance owes everyone an apology isn't ridiculous, it is just plain stupid.


Wrong again, people want him to confess, not apoligize, why the hell would we want an apology.
The majority of us here don't give a hoot about him doping, there is a small percentage that do, but that's not what all the LA threads are about.
Have you ever stopped to ask your self why there are no other threads about the other doped riders?
It's because we don't give a shyte, but what we do give a shyte about is how he lied, decieved, bulled etc etc etc etc, thats why we want to see him taken down, no one will settle for anything less.


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

No, I am questioning the so called proof of his guilt. 

I actually believe he is guilty but laugh at all the people that was on his junk (even though he was missing half of it) then act all shocked, surprised and betrayed as soon as accusations start flying. I also understand why he would do it considering all the top TDF riders probably were and the only chance a man would have to win would be to do it. 

If I was to direct my anger (if I had any), it would be at the governing boards of the TDF for allowing this to happen years before LA won and probably every year after his last win. 

I guarantee we can just go ahead and wipe every title off the books from 1999 to present and probably several years before that. However, we still ignore that fact.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

kjlued said:


> I guarantee we can just go ahead and wipe every title off the books from 1999 to present and probably several years before that. However, we still ignore that fact.


Dude - that is exactly what happened. Are you really engaging in discussion without knowing even the basics of this case???

Lance was one of the last cheats that finally got caught.

You can run, but you can not hide forever.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

osokolo said:


> you do know he tested positive twice , don't you.


That is not proven. You can allege and believe anything, but under the system in place he was not caught with an analytical. It did not happen. You know that, right?



osokolo said:


> huh? seriously? USADA is enforcing the same rules as WADA who governs the Olympics and all other major competitions. what do you mean "private"? they are just enforcing rules that Lance and all other athletes ACCEPTED voluntarily when they got their licenses. whether you care or not doesn't matter. Lance ACCEPTED these rules and acknowledged their potential consequences. heck, some geriatrics were caught and banned after tested positive in a friggin' Grand Fondo type of race... it comes with the license (same as Lance) that they took. why is this so hard to accept?


Yes, he did. But that does not make those rules a matter of criminal law, and enforcement of those rule are not in the realm of judicial system.

It is a private contract. Exactly that. USADA is a private organization with a contract. Subject to arbitration. Which is indeed a kangaroo court of sorts.

Whatever. Unsubscribing. Arguing with you haters is pointless.


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

So, lets just wipe the TDF off the books from beginning to end because now we all agree the whole series is a farce where only the best cheater won. That being said, we also agree that from 1999-2005 LA was the best cheater. 

LIke I have said before, C'mon he still beat all the other cheaters. 

From now on, lets call it the TDC or the Tour de Cheaters.:thumbsup:


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

sweet. ESPN is announcing The Confession on its ticker at the bottom of the screen...


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

Axe said:


> That is not proven. You can allege and believe anything, but under the system in place he was not caught with an analytical. It did not happen. You know that, right?


Axe - he was caught. His urine samples showed usage of EPO without the doubt. They wee tested according to standards. Why are you denying it. What do you mean with "analytical"? This all was shown on TV many times. It is in USADA evidence.



> Yes, he did. But that does not make those rules a matter of criminal law, and enforcement of those rule are not in the realm of judicial system.


Why is this relevant? Who is talking about criminal prosecution? How does that disprove his guilt?



> It is a private contract. Exactly that. USADA is a private organization with a contract. Subject to arbitration. Which is indeed a kangaroo court of sorts.
> 
> Whatever. Unsubscribing. Arguing with you haters is pointless.


But he accepted this court Axe. Voluntarily. He didn't have to. It was his choice.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Louie Armstrong is INNOCENT!


----------



## IndecentExposure (Sep 25, 2006)

I think Phill Liggett is an accessory to doping. Not many people would know Lance if it weren't for paparazzi.. haaa haa


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

*OK, so now we know Lance is guilty, can we forgive and forget?*

I am a great believer in compassion, and I am sure there are people here who profess outrage, me included, at the bad things Lance has done in his career, and have also done some 'bad things' in their time. Perhaps and most likely not on the same scale as Lance, but bad nonetheless. 
I think everyone deserves forgiveness if they are truly remorseful, and not just because they did not get away with it and are trying to salvage something of their ill-gotten gains or tattered reputation. True and meaningful remorse comes when someone feels it no matter what the outcome, and we cannot know whether this is what Lance is feeling now. I suspect not, but that is just my gut feeling. Does this make him any less worthy of compassion? I think not, but many will disagree. I still think he is a dick for doing what he did, and if he is motivated now from something other than true remorse, then he is an even bigger dick than I give him credit for. 
This one will run and run folks!


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

kjlued said:


> Lance owes nobody an apology.
> Even if he did do it, he still owes nobody an apology.
> 
> When it comes right down to it, if you feel hurt or betrayed to the point where you think you deserve an apology from this man because he doped up, then you are an ignorant ass fool.
> ...


This is something you wrote. You must be proud!


----------



## Mtn-Rider (May 21, 2010)

It's going to be really hard after he put so much effort into covering it up for so long, almost impossible really. Plus, he only seems to regret not being able to compete in triathlons now. We'll have to see what he said to Oprah when it airs on Thurs.


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

wmac said:


> This is something you wrote. You must be proud!


Wow you are brilliant, yes it is something I wrote.:thumbsup:

Yes, I still stand behind it.


----------



## xcguy (Apr 18, 2004)

kjlued said:


> Wow you are brilliant, yes it is something I wrote.:thumbsup:
> 
> Yes, I still stand behind it.


I agree. Armstrong doesn't need to apologize to anyone. He still won 7 straight TDFs against other doped up competitors. Sounds like a level playing field and he dominated.

It wasn't like he went from couch potato to superhuman with drugs (which is what the main stream media seems to be intimating with their bogus interviews with that azzhole Tygart). He still trained like nobody else, he still rode like nobody else. I've never understood the persecution of Armstrong and it's still playing out.


----------



## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

I already forgot....not because I do or don't believe that Lance is truly sorry but because I honestly believe the entire peloton of 'Tour de France' level professional road racers(minus maybe 5% tops) is guilty of doping or cheating in some way, manner or form. If they never caught Lance in 500+ tries, what does that say for the competency level of those conducting the testing? It means they suck and are essentially worthless.


----------



## nuffink (Feb 21, 2010)

I look forward to seeing his head in a bowl next to Nixon's on Futurama.


----------



## Fiskare (Sep 5, 2008)

I have been reading all the other threads on the subject and the answer is 'NO'. LA is the devil incarnate, the mother of all evil, and the worst of the worst in the Doping Rat Squad.


----------



## nuffink (Feb 21, 2010)

k2rider1964 said:


> I already forgot....not because I do or don't believe that Lance is truly sorry but because I honestly believe the entire peloton of 'Tour de France' level professional road racers(minus maybe 5% tops) is guilty of doping or cheating in some way, manner or form. If they never caught Lance in 500+ tries, what does that say for the competency level of those conducting the testing? It means they suck and are essentially worthless.


It means they're guilty of collusion* and, if Lance wants to do some good, maybe he could take the whole rotten lot down.

*At best.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

k2rider1964 said:


> If they never caught Lance in 500+ tries, what does that say for the competency level of those conducting the testing?


"_tested 500+ times with no dirty results_" is true only in the same realm as cotton candy rainbows and unicorn farts.

in reality he was tested fewer than 130 times and failed 8 of them. one of which mysteriously "went away" after a large 6 figure "donation" to the UCI for equipment to test for PEDs, of all things. 

what does that say about the competency and integrity of those who head the UCI and other governing bodies?

oh, he also tried to make a $250,000 "donation" to the USADA when they started investigating him as well. they turned it down citing "conflict of interest".


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Well I don't think LA has done anything that I personally need to forgive him for. 

I hope that those who he negatively affected can forgive no matter if he is truly remorseful or not because holding on to that anger can be more damaging then the deeds that somebody has done against you. 

That being said, forgiving and forgetting is two different things. 
For instance if somebody stole something from me, I would forgive them, but I would never forget and give them the opportunity to do it again.


----------



## nuffink (Feb 21, 2010)

monogod said:


> one of which mysteriously "went away" after a large 6 figure "donation" to the UCI for equipment to test for PEDs, of all things.


Convincingly showing just how independent the independent testing labs were.

edit: Let's be charitable and assume the sample was blinded.


----------



## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

nuffink said:


> I look forward to seeing his head in a bowl next to Nixon's on Futurama.


Id vote for him as the next prez of Earth, at least he admits he is a cheater. I wonder if he will inherit the headless body of Agnu?


----------



## nuffink (Feb 21, 2010)

There will be no yellow wash at the Lance House.


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

nuffink said:


> Convincingly showing just how independent the independent testing labs were.


The Dr. Ferrari trial is exposing the level of corruption and collusion in the "independent" testing and I am certain that it plays into Lances decision to confess, confess before the real facts are once again brought forth. This whole thing is going to blow up to levels that are almost incomprehensible, and more than a few people are going to be looking at prison terms.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

xcguy said:


> I agree. Armstrong doesn't need to apologize to anyone. He still won 7 straight TDFs against other doped up competitors. Sounds like a level playing field and he dominated.


wrong. he doped and won against other dopers AND CLEAN RIDERS.



xcguy said:


> It wasn't like he went from couch potato to superhuman with drugs (which is what the main stream media seems to be intimating with their bogus interviews with that azzhole Tygart). He still trained like nobody else, he still rode like nobody else.


wrong again. he went from a mediocre (at best) pack filler who NEVER FINISHED A TOUR prior to doping to being able to actually finish and win after doping.

so yeah, before doping he rode like a nobody all right... :thumbsup:

oh, and after doping he "trained" like nobody else too by having access to better PED's and an elaborate system of enablers and confederates than anyone else.

so no one could match his level of cheating, dishonesty, and corruptness.... wow... something to really be proud of. ut:



xcguy said:


> I've never understood the persecution of Armstrong and it's still playing out.


you don't understand the persecution of LA for lying, cheating, intimidating, blackmailing, extortion, perjury, retaliation, etc.?

you do realize those things are wrong and morally reprehensible, don't you? :skep:


----------



## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

xcguy said:


> I agree. Armstrong doesn't need to apologize to anyone. He still won 7 straight TDFs against other doped up competitors. Sounds like a level playing field and he dominated.


1. LA winning 7 TDF's is not true, prove it!
2. It still was not a level playing field among doped riders, why is that so hard for you to comprehend? LA still had a huge advantage over the other doped riders, if this is news to you then I suggest doing some research next time before making ridiculous statements.

The only other riders that could be considered to have been on a similar level as LA would be his own team mates, and even then LA still had an advantage.


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

the whole affair is a bummer, plain and simple.

i admired lance for his "accomplishments" and was in the "believer" camp until fairly recently, when all of the facts began to be made clear. i'm embarrassed for having once been such an ardent supporter of lance--and floyd as well. (i remember floyd tearing it up on the MTB scene in the early nineties)

*"This whole thing is going to blow up to levels that are almost incomprehensible, and more than a few people are going to be looking at prison terms."*

indeed. here's what i posted on my facebook page. bad words have been deleted:

_everybody involved in this sordid situation ought to be sent straight to secret underground kentucky salt mine federal prisons for the rest of their short assed natural born lives on GENERAL PRINCIPLES...and i mean EVERYBODY...lance, floyd, WADA, the USADA, the UCI, the USOC, the IOC, NORBA, USA cycling, the USPS, nike, the screaming fans on the side of the road in france...yes, even the management of trek bicycles...EVERY-XXXXXXX-BODY...

(let's shove oprah into her own filthy jail cell, for adding an additional layer of slime to the whole wretched affair)

competitive professional road cycling ought to be shut down for twenty-six years before grown men are allowed to sanction or participate in any way, shape or form of bicycle racing. god damn you, lance armstrong and every money grubbing rat xxxxxxx xxxxxxx that has let the sport sink to such a shameful level..._


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Mtn-Rider said:


> It's going to be really hard after he put so much effort into covering it up for so long, almost impossible really. Plus, he only seems to regret not being able to compete in triathlons now. We'll have to see what he said to Oprah when it airs on Thurs.


I think we know the Oprah thing will be more obfuscation. I kind of like Shekky's observation of her bringing a whole new level of slime. The slime strata go back millennia!


----------



## hitek (Feb 22, 2006)

I'm waiting to see how many of the people he trampled, sue his lying ass.


----------



## AlienRFX (Sep 27, 2006)

How's about we just forget and lock this thread down.


----------



## Mtn-Rider (May 21, 2010)

I wonder if LA also paid Oprah...


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

Mtn-Rider said:


> I wonder if LA also paid Oprah...


they paid each other...it's complicated...:eekster:


----------



## chombers (Jan 12, 2013)

This is the first thread about Lance that I've seen in a while


----------



## Millfox (Jun 22, 2012)

No! He needs to be tortured, humiliated in front of a large crowd of journalists, exorcised in a sacred bike shop, de-headed, his corpse needs to be chopped and fed to the hounds so his spirit won't be able to find its way out of this world. He is the worst possible evil that has happened in this milenium and the day when will USADA revoked his TDF titles will be celebrated in every major religion as the "Day when all the corruption was purged." Afterwards all the evil will fade and a new age of prosperity will come to Road cycling all over the world. PROSPERITY FOR ALL!


----------



## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

shekky said:


> the whole affair is a bummer, plain and simple.
> 
> i admired lance for his "accomplishments" and was in the "believer" camp until fairly recently, when all of the facts began to be made clear. i'm embarrassed for having once been such an ardent supporter of lance--and floyd as well. (i remember floyd tearing it up on the MTB scene in the early nineties)


I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. During Lance's reign I was in middle school and high school. As a young, impressionable cyclist I really looked up to him. I am very disappointed to say the least.


----------



## PdlPwr (Nov 16, 2010)

Millfox said:


> No! He needs to be tortured, humiliated in front of a large crowd of journalists, exorcised in a sacred bike shop, de-headed, his corpse needs to be chopped and fed to the hounds so his spirit won't be able to find its way out of this world. He is the worst possible evil that has happened in this milenium and the day when will USADA revoked his TDF titles will be celebrated in every major religion as the "Day when all the corruption was purged." Afterwards all the evil will fade and a new age of prosperity will come to Road cycling all over the world. PROSPERITY FOR ALL!


Don't hold back man, tell us how you really feel.:lol:


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

xcguy said:


> I agree. Armstrong doesn't need to apologize to anyone. He still won 7 straight TDFs against other doped up competitors. Sounds like a level playing field and he dominated.
> 
> It wasn't like he went from couch potato to superhuman with drugs (which is what the main stream media seems to be intimating with their bogus interviews with that azzhole Tygart). He still trained like nobody else, he still rode like nobody else. I've never understood the persecution of Armstrong and it's still playing out.


agreed.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

wmac said:


> This is something you wrote. You must be proud!


I thought it was pretty nice and accurate, myself.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

highdelll said:


> I thought it was pretty nice and accurate, myself.


that's too bad dell...

i guess if drug cartels build a few hospitals from the fraction of their drug money - they would have your support too? It's ok to sell drugs, because they build hospitals, eh?

Livestrong is a brilliant refuge for Lance... whenever someone mentions doping - Lance would hide behind Livestrong...

Now it is ok that he doped because he earned money to start Livestrong...

Geez.... you guys could be Lance's spin doctors....


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

osokolo said:


> that's too bad dell...
> 
> i guess if drug cartels build a few hospitals from the fraction of their drug money - they would have your support too? It's ok to sell drugs, because they build hospitals, eh?
> 
> ...


I have no opinion currently on LiveStrong (As I am not fully-read on that side of things); I was commenting on this bit:



> Lance owes nobody an apology.
> Even if he did do it, he still owes nobody an apology.
> 
> When it comes right down to it, if you feel hurt or betrayed to the point where you think you deserve an apology from this man because he doped up, then you are an ignorant ass fool.


Sorry, for the doping/racing bit, that is completely true IMO 

</so-not-trying-to-flame-war>


----------



## petersbike (Apr 5, 2006)

Lance Armstrong is a lying doper sociopath who will only continue to try and manipulate this confession into his advantage. I wager there will be no remorse. His apology will have rationales attached thereby negating the apology. 
He was the best he trained so hard rode his bike 6 hours every day. Thats because he was on the juice getting recovery through testosterone etc. Would not suprise me if he had a weekly volume of 42 hours with 1/4 of that at zone 6.
I look forward to him kicking my ass in the 35open. 
BTW I really don't care that much about the actual doping aspect of his transgressions.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

highdelll said:


> I have no opinion currently on LiveStrong (As I am not fully-read on that side of things); I was commenting on this bit:
> 
> Sorry


i don't care if he apologizes or not...


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

That was me bringing that post to kjuled's attention to help him recognize that what he wrote is justifying and rationalizing criminal behavior, which he stated, in another thread, that he never did.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

wmac said:


> That was me bringing that post to kjuled's attention to help him recognize that what he wrote is justifying and rationalizing criminal behavior, which he stated, in another thread, that he never did.


Barring talk of LiveStrong (again, I have no horse in this.) and focusing on the racing, are you saying that is criminal?

[not trying to put words in your mouth, just clarifying]


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

highdelll said:


> Barring talk of LiveStrong (again, I have no horse in this.) and focusing on the racing, are you saying that is criminal?
> 
> [not trying to put words in your mouth, just clarifying]


you have to clarify your question.

i don't care as much about the fact that he doped - it ain't criminal if you ask me.

what is criminal is his perjury in the court of justice, his persecution of those that stood up to him and his organized cheating network that was sucking in those that did not necessarily want to go his route...


----------



## petersbike (Apr 5, 2006)

I had read that there is a possible charge of drug trafficking that could be charged. Had read this on another site where the forum users have been pretty accurate about what has happened over the past few months. Otherwise just hearsay.


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

No, tell all the guys who refused to dope and gave up their cycling careers to forgive and forget. Or tell the 25% of American PRISONERS who are doing time for non-violent drug offenses that taking illegal PEDs are okay and getting high for recreational purposes warrants time behind bars.

Put Lance Armstrong behind bars or in a mental institution.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

osokolo said:


> you have to clarify your question.
> 
> i don't care as much about the fact that he doped - it ain't criminal if you ask me.
> 
> what is criminal is his perjury in the court of justice, his persecution of those that stood up to him and his organized cheating network that was sucking in those that did not necessarily want to go his route...


It should have never come to a trial to be perjured in - I think that's where you and disagree


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

highdelll said:


> It should have never come to a trial to be perjured in - I think that's where you and disagree


he committed perjury without a trial. he was not on trial.

many athletes and politicians were in the same position.

why do you think he should not have testified under oath? what is wrong with that?


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

highdelll said:


> Barring talk of LiveStrong (again, I have no horse in this.) and focusing on the racing, are you saying that is criminal?
> 
> [not trying to put words in your mouth, just clarifying]


He signed contracts stating he would not use EPO. The races he participated in had rules against the use of EPO.

My personal stance on drugs is that drug laws are stupid. I personally believe the fact that 25% of incarcerated Americans are in for non-violent drug offense is appalling. They should be let go immediately and either put in mental health facilities or let go completely.

I personally think athletes should be able to take whatever types of drugs they want. But that's not the world we live in.

The world we live in is one of laws, contracts and rules. If you break the laws, contracts or rules, you have to pay the penalty. Yes, what Lance Armstrong did was criminal. What makes it worse is how he sued other people and won when they were telling the truth!

The whole thing is a scam. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we, as a society, place too much importance on professional sports. This leads to huge incentives for the competitors and huge incentive to cheat.

There always has been and always will be drug use in cycling and other sports. Make it legal so we can see it for what it is. But until then, anyone cheating or being dishonest should be held criminally and civilly responsible for the damages they caused.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

^^^ RULES - about "Professional Sports", which we all get in a tussy over.
All-while the Govt/elite is keeping you distracted by MSM, REAL crimes are going down - Crimes against humanity.

Sit Back, take a toke or breath, and think about "IT"

In everyday thinking, it seems most want to shoot the puppet, and could give a crap where the strings go - talk about suspension of reality


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

highdelll said:


> ^^^ RULES - about "Professional Sports", which we all get in a tussy over.
> All-while the Govt/elite is keeping you distracted by MSM, REAL crimes are going down - Crimes against humanity.
> 
> Sit Back, take a toke or breath, and think about "IT"
> ...


I'm all too familiar. Did you check out the Dan Airely video I referenced in the other Lance thread? RSA Animate- The Truth About Dishonesty (A verdade sobre a desonestidade) - YouTube

The problem I have is that this is all connected. Not in an Illuminati sense, but the incentive structures we have in place invite the rationalization of dishonest behavior to the point that dishonest behavior is acceptable, justified and/or defended.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

highdelll said:


> ^^^ RULES - about "Professional Sports", which we all get in a tussy over.
> All-while the Govt/elite is keeping you distracted by MSM, REAL crimes are going down - Crimes against humanity.
> 
> Sit Back, take a toke or breath, and think about "IT"
> ...


Ah yes. That is a completely another stinky can of worms. So stinky that LA story sounds like a lullaby. No argument there.

But Lance is at hand here. Stay focused.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

wmac said:


> I'm all too familiar. Did you check out the Dan Airely video I referenced in the other Lance thread? RSA Animate- The Truth About Dishonesty (A verdade sobre a desonestidade) - YouTube
> 
> The problem I have is that this is all connected. Not in an Illuminati sense, but the incentive structures we have in place invite the rationalization of dishonest behavior to the point that dishonest behavior is acceptable, justified and/or defended.


That video is a great illustration :thumbsup:
I have a connected feeling too, but 'stars' are falsely held to a level of 'morality' than the machine driving it.

Yeah, you could say, HE could have chose to not 'Do It'; how many have chose not to?

My 'beef' is the witchhunt over something so petty - where was the witch-hunt when (HSA and NDAA went down? - Suspending Habeas corpus - That's real-humanity shlt - THAT should be on Oprah - instead, its reserved for the 'tin-foil' channels


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

highdelll said:


> That video is a great illustration :thumbsup:
> I have a connected feeling too, but 'stars' are falsely held to a level of 'morality' than the machine driving it.
> 
> Yeah, you could say, HE could have chose to not 'Do It'; how many have chose not to?
> ...


I mentioned in another thread that this is a little personal to me because my world was shattered as a teenager when a personal friend and hero, who is a Tour veteran, gave up his professional cycling career because he refused to dope. He told me that it had been going on since the beginning and all the top guys were all doing it and it was impossible to be a contender without it. I was 15 at the time and shortly after that I stopped road riding and gave up any dreams I had of being a professional cyclist.

That's when I gave up on all professional sports because as I looked into it, it wasn't just cycling.

Then I looked into the world on a broader scale and became even more disillusioned. And don't get me started about what I learned while being stationed at Fort Bragg and during my deployments.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

highdelll said:


> ^^^ RULES - about "Professional Sports", which we all get in a tussy over.
> All-while the Govt/elite is keeping you distracted by MSM, REAL crimes are going down - Crimes against humanity.
> 
> Sit Back, take a toke or breath, and think about "IT"
> ...


there are many more things far more grievous and heinous than what LA did or even the extent to which he was enabled and protected at the very top echelons of the UCI.

start a thread on it and i'm sure you'll get great agreement, me included.

in the space of time that it will take to read just one page on this thread several people will die in this world from genocide. several from starvation. many rapes will occur, some violating children. according to the NHTSA 27 people in the u.s. are killed by drinking and driving DAILY, and in 2010 alcohol related crashes claimed the lives of 211 children. our government is grabbing more and more power and stripping us of the last vestiges of our Constitutional freedoms. not satisfied with that they're daily running up millions upon millions more dollars of debt to encumber our children with.

discussing this issue does not mean that one is not aware of other problems in this society, this country, or globally (i.e. "IT"). it does not mean that one is not involved with doing something about "IT".

if you're that concerned about it how about signing off MTBR and stop wasting time here and doing something about "IT"? how can you chastise others for not thinking about "IT" when you waste time here and in the OC squabbling over trivial things, posting clever one liners, and arguing over other trivialities? should we take that to mean you don't care about "IT" because you've posted in this thread as well?

there's a rather dusky kettle awaiting your introduction...


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

monogod said:


> there are many more things far more grievous and heinous than what LA did or even the extent to which he was enabled and protected at the very top echelons of the UCI.
> 
> start a thread on it and i'm sure you'll get great agreement, me included.
> 
> ...


From how you got that out of my poasts, I see not


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

Oh and this reminded me about skydiving's Roger Nelson and Water skiing's Herb O'Brien. My whole life, it seemed that whatever sport I got into was built on drug use. That when I realized Mr. Hand was right - everyone IS on dope


----------



## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

wmac said:


> I mentioned in another thread that this is a little personal to me because my world was shattered as a teenager when a personal friend and hero, who is a Tour veteran, gave up his professional cycling career because he refused to dope. He told me that it had been going on since the beginning and all the top guys were all doing it and it was impossible to be a contender without it. I was 15 at the time and shortly after that I stopped road riding and gave up any dreams I had of being a professional cyclist.
> 
> That's when I gave up on all professional sports because as I looked into it, it wasn't just cycling.
> 
> Then I looked into the world on a broader scale and became even more disillusioned. And don't get me started about what I learned while being stationed at Fort Bragg and during my deployments.


Fantastic comment.

It's infuriating that he's sitting on 100 million dollars while others never made enough to eat. I hope people will focus on the forgotten ones.

Here is Nicole Cooke's retirement speech. It is astounding. She managed to not dope and be a winner.

Nicole Cooke's retirement statement in full


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

highdelll said:


> From how you got that out of my poasts, I see not


you stated it point blank. how one could not get that out of your posts, i see not.


----------



## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

girlonbike said:


> Fantastic comment.
> 
> It's infuriating that he's sitting on 100 million dollars while others never made enough to eat. I hope people will focus on the forgotten ones.
> 
> ...


She managed not to get caught and complain about cheaters anyway. Can't say anything beyond that. What he actually said in his comment was


wmac said:


> *He told me that it had been going on since the beginning and all the top guys were all doing it and it was impossible to be a contender without it.*


I am not sure what "beginning" he is referring to, but if the beginning of the tour then it sort of supports the notion that it is just a cess pool better ignored. Others have said and I agree that if you want a clean sport get the money out. Most especially if you want clean cycling.


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

I see no reason to forgive ... But given enough time, I hope everyone forgets his name as anything more than a bad joke played upon the sporting World.

And FWIW,
Keep the slamming of each other out of this thread.
The MOD's just closed the other thread, for what I suspect is such actions ... Personally, I'd have deleted some comments and given a few people time-out's ... But I'm not a MOD.

We don't need another thread, but the topic isn't going away, either !!!

*Heard the cats, leave the thread*


----------



## Lovedirt (Jan 16, 2013)

wmac said:


> No, tell all the guys who refused to dope and *gave up *their cycling careers to forgive and forget. Or tell the 25% of American PRISONERS who are doing time for non-violent drug offenses that taking illegal PEDs are okay and getting high for recreational purposes warrants time behind bars.
> 
> Put Lance Armstrong behind bars or in a mental institution.


Last time i checked everyone is a grown up and can make their own choices wisely . Hey if you give up on something then thats your fault .


----------



## Lovedirt (Jan 16, 2013)

bikeabuser said:


> I see no reason to forgive ... But given enough time, I hope everyone forgets his name as anything more than a bad joke played upon the sporting World.
> 
> And FWIW,
> Keep the slamming of each other out of this thread.
> ...


----------



## Tackhammer (Dec 21, 2006)

I don't need to forgive Lance. What did he do to me? He got caught up in cheating in bicycling. And then lied about it. Most people would if they made the same mistake. So many worse things out there than cheating at cycling and lying about it. (Rape, murder, incest, kidnapping, etc)

Personally I feel bad for him and his family. Yes he caused it but the last few years of his life have been miserable and Im sure the next few will be as well... 

I for one have made mistakes in my life. Not at the same level to be sure, but I am no ones judge.

Hang in there everyone...

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Tackhammer said:


> I don't need to forgive Lance. What did he do to me? He got caught up in cheating in bicycling. And then lied about it. Most people would if they made the same mistake. So many worse things out there than cheating at cycling and lying about it. (Rape, murder, incest, kidnapping, etc)


According to some people he is as low if not lower than all the rapists, murderers, child molesters, etc.


----------



## markymark (Oct 30, 2004)

This really sums it all up nicely...


----------



## Lovedirt (Jan 16, 2013)

Well im going to point out a fact here, NOBODY here was in his shoes or ever was in his shoes. Nobody really knows the truth about what goes on behind closed doors , and if you believe any of the " media " then shame on you . There is always 2 sides of the story , he will suffer mentally and emotionally and thats VERY draining . We are human people , everyone needs to sit back and take a hit from the pipe :thumbsup: 

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again"


----------



## kinsler (Sep 13, 2011)

AlienRFX said:


> How's about we just forget and lock this thread down.


Agreed... Lance and all threads related to him should be buried in the deepest possible hole and never come out


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

people are denying knowledge about what went on behind closed doors:

Thom Weisel speaks, denies doping connection | Bottom Line | an SFGate.com blog

Wheels of Armstrong scandal turn in S.F. - SFGate


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Lovedirt said:


> , and if you believe any of the " media " then shame on you


Yes, the big evil empire agenda. 


> I had visions, i was in them i was looking into the mirror to see a little bit clearer rottenness and evil in me


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

shekky said:


> people are denying knowledge about what went on behind closed doors:
> 
> Thom Weisel speaks, denies doping connection | Bottom Line | an SFGate.com blog


Yeah, people are funny like that. Deny everything when facing prison time.


----------



## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

Axe, like I said in my post, LA did not win 7 TDF's. Giving me a neg rep without proof is a copout, I thought you were bigger than that, my mistake!


----------



## ghglenn (Jan 26, 2012)

I am done hearing about LA. I am gonna go out and ride my new skateboard and try to forget about all of this crap.


----------



## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

This will settle all of your fears.



Lance said:


> Well, it took a long time, but it looks like my plan worked.
> I apologize for leading everyone on, but it was the only way I could single-handedly clean up the sport of doped cycling. Playing the part to the hilt was the only way I could be sure to rout out all of the guilty parties. I hope you can all understand and find it in your hearts to forgive me.
> Thank you, and good night.


-F


----------



## Lovedirt (Jan 16, 2013)




----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

Lovedirt said:


> Well im going to point out a fact here, NOBODY here was in his shoes or ever was in his shoes. Nobody really knows the truth about what goes on behind closed doors , and if you believe any of the " media " then shame on you . There is always 2 sides of the story , he will suffer mentally and emotionally and thats VERY draining . We are human people , everyone needs to sit back and take a hit from the pipe :thumbsup:
> 
> "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again"


You know puppet accounts are grounds for perma-ban, right?


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

wmac said:


> You know puppet accounts are grounds for perma-ban, right?


He does now.


----------



## 50calray (Oct 25, 2010)

Anyone see this, attorney plans to sue Lance Armstrong?

Dallas attorney to pursue Lance Armstrong for millions of dollars - ABC Sydney - Australian Broadcasting Corporation


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

I am sure many other lawsuits will follow. 

The sharks smell blood and they will attack. 
The first sharks to the meal are the only ones that will be able to get a piece.


----------



## fourtyounce (May 2, 2006)

God damn roadies are at it again. The way I see it is that everyone doped, that's just what the top level of cycling does. Are there riders that don't? Sure, but will they ever win? No. If you want a chance to win, you do bad things and he won the TDF 7 times. That in itself is just amazing. LA was the most tryhard of the tryhards. 

The thing that bothers me most is that he chose Oprah as the venue for his confession. But I will laugh my ass off if all the audience members receive free bikes.


----------



## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

fourtyounce said:


> Are there riders that don't?


Sure, wiggins and evans to name a couple.



fourtyounce said:


> Sure, but will they ever win? No..


Erm...actually both of them won, Wiggins won last year, Evans the year before. They proved you don't need to do bad things to win.


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

SV11 said:


> Sure, wiggins and evans to name a couple.
> 
> Erm...actually both of them won, Wiggins won last year, Evans the year before. They proved you don't need to do bad things to win.


They have not done bad things that we know of.

However, who knows what we will discover 7 years from now.


----------



## robertdavid (May 31, 2012)

I guarantee you that Wiggins and Evans are doing something. If, in your job, someone, who is not as gifted as you was taking a substance that made them better and took away from your pocket book, what would you do? I am not a Lance lover at all. I always knew he was doping. Probably 75 to 85% of all professional athletes are taking something. These people have about a 10 to 15 year window to maximize their earning potential. As far as Tyler Hamilton and any other of his teammates who ratted on Lance, well. They say they were told they had to dope. Well, they could've said, then, we won't ride on your team. Of course as they went down the line of the top teams they would've been saying no a lot. If they had ridden for a clean team, no placing, no exposure, and not as much $$$$. What a bunch of ingrates. Sometimes there has to be honor among theives. I don't think most of the world gives a rat's ass who doped. If you think that people are winning and riding clean in the Tour, then you are living in a polyanna existence. We love to watch people ride and run faster and faster. Well, this is how the best do it to be able to hang with all the others who are doing it. I say let them do anything they want. It's their body and their choice.


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)




----------



## BeanMan (Jul 6, 2006)

No, A serial liar is not to be forgiven.


----------



## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

k2rider1964 said:


> I already forgot....not because I do or don't believe that Lance is truly sorry but because I honestly believe the entire peloton of 'Tour de France' level professional road racers(minus maybe 5% tops) is guilty of doping or cheating in some way, manner or form. If they never caught Lance in 500+ tries, what does that say for the competency level of those conducting the testing? It means they suck and are essentially worthless.


Yes I believe I'll look in the newspaper and find some havoc committed here, do it myself, then when the police arrive, I'll just tell them hey other people are doing it and all will be forgiven. :madman:


----------



## Genubah (Oct 24, 2004)

kjlued said:


> The sharks smell blood and they will attack.
> The first sharks to the meal are the only ones that will be able to get a piece.


Can't he have donated all his possessions, just waiting for every possible lawsuit, and when all the sentences are in, to declare personal bankruptcy and let debts become someone else's problem?


----------



## Fiskare (Sep 5, 2008)

kjlued said:


> I am sure many other lawsuits will follow.
> The sharks smell blood and they will attack.
> The first sharks to the meal are the only ones that will be able to get a piece.


All the estimates of his wealth are at least 100 million. All estimates of his total liabilities from the confession are sub 20 million, and zero jail time. He is fine, and will likely just start writing checks to keep the 'cost' part of the total bill to a minimum. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he pays less than 10 million, inclusive of costs.


----------



## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Why do I need to forgive Lance? What did he do to me? Let's see, got me interested in Road Cycling, popularized road racing, more TV time for me to view, which I enjoy. 

Sure he's quite a cheat and prick, but I don't see him starting a war where thousands and thousands of lifes are lost, or causing some huge enviro disaster, or bailing out the rich with fed money.... It's amazing how there is so much hate towards Lance. Sure, if I was Lemond, Betsy Andreu, or Emma O'rielly I'd hate his guts out.


----------



## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

*OK, so now we know Lance is guilty, can we forgive and forget? *

Ask all the people he and his lawyers intimidated, sued, disparaged and generally screwed over the years for saying anything that was contrary to the big lie.


----------



## nuffink (Feb 21, 2010)

bikeabuser said:


> I see no reason to forgive ... But given enough time, I hope everyone forgets his name as anything more than a bad joke played upon the sporting World.[/COLOR][/B]


Don't hold your breath. This fits one of the oldest, most popular myths in the world - the flawed, fallen hero. Lance as Achilles.


----------



## Danke (Sep 19, 2005)

I hear he's taking down the UCI and US Postal as co-conspirators. 

No mention of other sponsors or sanctioning bodies going down with him yet.


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

Good, I hope anyone and everyone involved in this fraud does time behind bars.


----------



## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

I hope he throws everyone under a bus. starting with the UCI.


----------



## ntm1973 (Jan 7, 2013)

k2rider1964 said:


> I already forgot....not because I do or don't believe that Lance is truly sorry but because I honestly believe the entire peloton of 'Tour de France' level professional road racers(minus maybe 5% tops) is guilty of doping or cheating in some way, manner or form. If they never caught Lance in 500+ tries, what does that say for the competency level of those conducting the testing? It means they suck and are essentially worthless.


+1 on this. I would like to know how many other people are/were doping. I suspect a lot of politics on this issue.


----------



## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Hard to forgive or forget when I never gave a sh!t either way to start with.


----------



## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

hitek said:


> I'm waiting to see how many of the people he trampled, sue his lying ass.


I've been very surprised to hear of the things he did to some of those poor folks that were merely telling the truth.


----------



## GnarBrahWyo (Jun 4, 2012)

Lance will have a mixed legacy but yeah, pro-cycling was a joke for so long. Everyone knew everyone was doping and no one stopped it. Riders are slower now, so maybe things are being cleaned up.


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Everyone doped. He was the best of all the other cyclist/dopers. He's a person. He entertains me as a cyclist and endurance athlete. I don't know him. Doubt he cares any more than I do if I "forgive" him or not.
I don't know Berry Bonds. He doped. So did most others. He hit a lot of home runs. It was fun to watch. He got caught. He's an avid cyclist now I hear. 
My point is stop getting so caught up in other peoples lives. Yeah, it's interesting, watch Oprah tonight, talk about it at work tomorrow then go ride your bike. If Lance passes me on a trail here in Texas someday I'll try to catch up.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

k2rider1964 said:


> I already forgot....not because I do or don't believe that Lance is truly sorry but because I honestly believe the entire peloton of 'Tour de France' level professional road racers(minus maybe 5% tops) is guilty of doping or cheating in some way, manner or form. If they never caught Lance in 500+ tries, what does that say for the competency level of those conducting the testing? It means they suck and are essentially worthless.


Didnt take much digging into these three pages to find the winner. :thumbsup:


----------



## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

Road cycling is a dopers paradise. The nature of the sport is just too enticing to cheat at. It is bad for your health to be all angry though so quit punishing yourself with your anger


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

never forget and L. A. does not deserve forgiveness. and the French press were right about him, all along...

geed and dishonesty personified.


----------



## Roadsters (Jul 7, 2008)

Armstrong stripped of Olympic bronze medal

_Thirteen years after he stood on the podium in Sydney, Lance Armstrong was stripped of his bronze medal from the 2000 Olympics because of doping.

The International Olympic Committee sent a letter to Armstrong on Wednesday night asking him to return the medal, just as it said it planned to do last month. _


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Fiskare said:


> All the estimates of his wealth are at least 100 million. All estimates of his total liabilities from the confession are sub 20 million, and zero jail time. He is fine, and will likely just start writing checks to keep the 'cost' part of the total bill to a minimum. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he pays less than 10 million, inclusive of costs.


Even if he was taken down to $0 dollars, he would come out wealthy after book and movie deals.


----------



## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

He doped. Anyone who has followed cycling knows that there has been credible allegations about LA doping for nearly 16 years. 16 years.

I am bummed and too would like to think these guys are superheroes during their races, but we all know that to be competitive and perhaps just hang on for dear life at the back of the peleton you had to be doped to the gills.

*Please don't respond with a name of some rider you think was clean now...thanks.

For me, it is much much bigger than the doping issue with LA. If he had not been so mean to so many people for so long, this whole situation would not be what it is for him today. He stepped on the toes of some powerful people (Ex. John Kerry).

This was destined to happen sooner or later.....it is payback I believe.... not so much about the doping.

He has a lot of apologizing to do to the folks he tried to ruin along the way. No need to apologize to us current and past "fans". If we idolized him that much, it was on us to educate ourselves about him as a person. Read the books etc..

Well, maybe he should apologize to any small children that were fans...


----------



## Moto Rider (Dec 30, 2006)

I can forgive...we are human. 

I do feel sorry for all the millions of individuals who were inspired and believed that anything is possible. So, all i can say is, he survived cancer and completed one of the most difficult road races in the world. Running a marathon is not about winning, just completing is considered a win.

Even if one was to disregard his wins. One would still have to admire his efforts.


----------



## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Moto Rider said:


> I can forgive...we are human.
> 
> I do feel sorry for all the millions of individuals who were inspired and believed that anything is possible. So, all i can say is, he survived cancer and completed one of the most difficult road races in the world. Running a marathon is not about winning, just completing is considered a win.
> 
> Even if one was to disregard his wins. One would still have to admire his efforts.


True. Also, an egocentric mean spirited person doped with the best dope and surrounded by the best pro team who "won" the TdF 7 times is absolutely nearly impossible and still mind blowing. It really is imo.

Pretty impressive even with all the variables thrown in. I am under the impression that most honest international pros will tell you there is NO way they could have done that also.


----------



## Wishful Tomcat (Mar 6, 2009)

wmac said:


> Good, I hope anyone and everyone involved in this fraud does time behind bars.


Ned Overend agrees:

Overend Calls For Cycling's Dopers To Be Treated As Criminals | Cyclingnews.com


----------



## MFR///R (Apr 25, 2010)

NO.
I am sorry, he earned the PRIVILEGE to compete in any and every event and as I do admire his gifted abilities to compete at a level that is nothing short of miraculous, he is also a liar, the equivalent of an extortionist and a downright rude SOB. He used his gift and hard work to deceive (and earn) millions and then went on to literally destroy reputations of people telling the TRUTH of his actions. I don't care what he did for Charities either, it is all soiled monies, I know a lot of great things came out of the Livestrong foundation but as Spiritual beings we are, call it Karma call it what you will, a price to be paid will come. God bless us, I am at this moment ashamed that I ever and did believe in this and other athletic so called Heroes. When will society and athletes included learn that integrity will ALWAYS prevail.
This is just my personal opinion.
Thank you


----------



## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*What?*

Who's Lance?


----------



## lobster_CT (Jan 8, 2013)

...


----------



## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

arkon11 said:


> It's threads like these that make me want to leave MTBR forever. Good job you ****faces.


...and who held a gun to your head and forced you to read?

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

bye

michael


----------



## Danke (Sep 19, 2005)

lobster_CT said:


> ...


I get it


----------



## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

snowdrifter said:


> I hope he throws everyone under a bus. starting with the UCI.


Not like he isn't well practiced.

If he goes out and makes right to the various people who's lives he made it a personal mission to damage (or at least tries), I could think about forgiving him for it all then.

Buy them houses, gives them a nice healthy chunk of cash (at least equal to lost earnings + legal fees from his hatchets jobs) and publicly admits exactly what he did to them. I think any remorse he's feeling now is for getting caught, people like that are always in the right in their own head, whatever the outcome.


----------



## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

arkon11 said:


> It's threads like these that make me want to leave MTBR forever. Good job you ****faces.


Buh bye.


----------



## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

lobster_CT said:


> ...


Wrong on both counts. nm


----------



## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

He is a d-bag in my book. I just converted my Live Strong shirt to a bike rag.


----------



## PdlPwr (Nov 16, 2010)

Deep down I was hoping he was clean. I knew he wasn't or any of the folks at the top for that matter but still hoped for it nonetheless. Never really a huge fan but I often thought with respect to Livestrong, "there's a guy who gives hope to a lot of folks, good on ya". I knew it all along but still feel a bit let down. Not for my sake but let's face it, cycling isn't really that popular in the US and this is a real kick in the nuts for a sport most folks view as snobby and elitist in the first place. Better get to work on the "I'm not Lance Armstrong" graphic jersey to wear on my road rides.


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

rydbyk said:


> True. Also, an egocentric mean spirited person doped with the best dope and surrounded by the best pro team who "won" the TdF 7 times is absolutely nearly impossible and still mind blowing. It really is imo.
> 
> Pretty impressive even with all the variables thrown in. I am under the impression that most honest international pros will tell you there is NO way they could have done that also.


Yup, he out doped the dopers, 7 times. It is VERY impressive.


----------



## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

This sucks, Lance is not naming names...


----------



## rti27 (Dec 9, 2012)

who is worse lance or pete rose?


----------



## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

International Olympic Committee has stated that if the UCI is implicated by Armstrong's admissions (and further court hearings), they will ban all cycling (MTB included) from all Olympic events for a period of at least 8 years. That means if you are a clean young kid (lets say 16 years old today), and you have the ambition to ride in the Olympics (MTB or Road), you might not be able to do so.


----------



## Fishbucket (Dec 4, 2012)

nevermind... I'm taking this post to OC...

Should have looked there first


----------



## petersbike (Apr 5, 2006)

*Oprah interview Lance, what are your thoughts.*

I thought he felt like he had a huge weight taken off. I will not forget ever but I may forgive some time. He should never return to any form of competition though. He probably should also make some kind of financial penance if he does really seek remorse.


----------



## ArmySlowRdr (Dec 19, 2003)

He's like a kid stuck with a stash of porn mags and his shorts down around his ankles trying to back peddle n tread water best he can.

It won't be enough to satisfy WADA or USADA of course. 

I still think Lance was a terrific athlete; just his success went to his head. I think but for all of the strongest humans, we get away with what we can. Bad part is he trashed so many in doing so.


----------



## petersbike (Apr 5, 2006)

I agree with you. However I bet you he feels so much better after this confession of sorts. It is not going to be good for him nor do I want it to be but I believe he feels a million times better than he did last week, He should get no quarter . His spirit will, however be reborn.


----------



## Mrwhlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Try caring about him as much as he does you, you won't be bothered from that point onward.


----------



## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

Who is this? Oh wait, don't care...


----------



## t0pcat (May 7, 2012)

He did what most everyone else was doing---who cares its like everyone else in life anymore whats 5 mph over the speed limit so long as i don't get caught, so i took some parts from work home to use so what, i only cheated with your sister once!, better yet Bill Clinton not having sex when he left a deposit on monica's dress


----------



## petersbike (Apr 5, 2006)

Human nature is fascinating. I think poorly of him but it will be interesting to watch how it pans out.


----------



## mtnbiker4life (Sep 19, 2005)

ArmySlowRdr said:


> I still think Lance was a terrific athlete; just his success went to his head. I think but for all of the strongest humans, we get away with what we can. Bad part is he trashed so many in doing so.


How do we know he was a terrific athlete because he was doping. He's a disgrace and no amount of softball interviews will change that fact. He had me fooled. It seemed that the cyclists who doped got caught in a year or two but Lance strung this lie for a very long time. I hope all cycling federations uphold their punishment just like Pete Rose.


----------



## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Haven't seen it yet - has he dumped on the team manager and doctor and UCI and the testing agencies?


----------



## petersbike (Apr 5, 2006)

Not at all . I thought the two big lies of the interview were of him senying the Christian Van De Velde accusation and the Hey the UCI did not make a deal with me (pay off 2001) oh and the Betsy Andreu story. SCA lawsuit . oh that is three. He simply avoided the team director and owners issue by saying he would only talk about himself.


----------



## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

petersbike said:


> Not at all . I thought the two big lies of the interview were of him senying the Christian Van De Velde accusation and the Hey the UCI did not make a deal with me (pay off 2001) oh and the Betsy Andreu story. SCA lawsuit . oh that is three. He simply avoided the team director and owners issue by saying he would only talk about himself.


D you thinks that suggests there is still something going on between LA and the UCI?


----------



## petersbike (Apr 5, 2006)

I don't know and rightly could be worng about the whole thing. From the information that is out there that I have read I feel he made some deal with the UCI.
Tothe other guy who says that we have all gone 5mph over the speed limit ; Sorry I am not going to rationalize his incorrect behavior. When you get caught doing 5 mph over you suck it up. Now Lance must suck it up. I honestly believe he will be better off regardless of how this affects his finances and status. Lies and secrets revealed are liberating.


----------



## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Confession is only liberating if there's real remorse attached to it. Lance is only sorry he got caught.....not sorry he cheated, lied, bullied, etc. He even said as much in the interview. "If I hadn't come back after retiring we wouldn't be sitting here."

I mean he did flat out admit most of the things he did..... but he never would've done that had he not been caught.


----------



## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

KRob said:


> Confession is only liberating if there's real remorse attached to it. Lance is only sorry he got caught.....not sorry he cheated, lied, bullied, etc. He even said as much in the interview. "If I hadn't come back after retiring we wouldn't be sitting here."
> 
> I mean he did flat out admit most of the things he did..... but he never would've done that had he not been caught.


^^^This.


----------



## Uruk-hai (Apr 22, 2004)

I wanna hear from all his fanbois out there....I started thinking something was fishy in 2003. Man, if you brought up Lance and doping back then you'd have a ton of people coming down on you. I can't tell you how many times people would actually get angry with me for suggesting it.

It all just didn't add up. He progressively got more and more dominant as each year went by. That didn't make sense. And all the while all the lemmings out there were defending him citing "heart", "determination", and "hard work".

What do all you lunkheads think now?


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

oprah winfrey, people. american tabloid television at its finest.

i dunno, to me something doesn't quite smell right about this.

however, that's just my (humble) opinion and everyone has a right to their own opinion.


----------



## Uruk-hai (Apr 22, 2004)

Yeah, I wonder how part II is going to be spun.


----------



## flyxaos (May 18, 2006)

He was a dumb ass. Like everybody else in his time. They were all doing it. Or they all knew to win you had too. It was the culture of the time, probably still is, but the Lords of that sport knew it and know it. They are worse than him. They pretend it is a clean sport. No...Stupid political crap. 

Lance still won them all, as far as I'm concerned.

I have to ad. If you want to play allstars, Greg LeMond is a monster, no contest.. Sorry Lance. Hah!


----------



## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

I didn't watch it and I probably won't for some time. That's my feedback. 

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Kiwi_GR_Biker (Nov 17, 2012)

flyxaos said:


> He was a dumb ass. Like everybody else in his time. They were all doing it. Or they all knew to win you had too. It was the culture of the time, probably still is, but the Lords of that sport knew it and know it. They are worse than him. They pretend it is a clean sport. No...Stupid political crap.
> *
> Lance still won them all, as far as I'm concerned.
> *
> I have to ad. If you want to play allstars, Greg LeMond is a monster, no contest.. Sorry Lance. Hah!


Agreed. They were all juicing so it was a level playing field and he still won 7 times. Stripping him of the titles is pointless. Does it go to the next cheat that was never caught?


----------



## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

Kiwi_GR_Biker said:


> Agreed. They were all juicing so it was a level playing field and he still won 7 times. Stripping him of the titles is pointless. Does it go to the next cheat that was never caught?


You have no idea. Really. Not all teams were injecting junk. Not all teams were pressuring their riders to inject. Do you know any athletes who are 15 years old? Do you want them to start injecting roids so they can win whatever game they are playing?


----------



## lelebebbel (Jan 31, 2005)

Ok I keep reading "He was still the best, because he beat all the other cheaters"

_*NO.*_

This is wrong. It is not correct. As in, false.

By cheating, even if everyone cheated, the competition was no longer valid. There can only be a winner if there is a level playing field, and the competitors abide by the rules. If half, 3/4, 90% or all of the competitors cheat, you can not determine who is the real winner. Who cheated how much? What was real, what wasn't? The statement that LA would have beat all of them on a level playing field is 100% speculation. It can not be proven anymore than the statement that any of the other guys like Cadel Evans, Pantani, Ulrich or some guy who never made the top 50 would have beaten all the others. It is absolutely impossible to tell if LA truly would have been a superior rider, or if he was just fairly talented, but cheated more ruthlessly than the others.
And please don't gimme that "he has superior willpower, he was the hardest training athlete" crap.
Doping affects the psychological side of the competition, knowing that the doctors have given you superhuman strength is guaranteed to boost your morale when you are chasing someone up Alpe D'Huez, or completing another gruelling training ride. Even if its just the believe that you have the better doctors. There are plenty of people out there that should be admired for true, honest willpower that isn't boosted by injections. Just maybe not in the pro circuit.

That is what it comes down to. Better doctors, and better, more ruthless methods of beating the system. No winner, and no "if"s and "but"s.


----------



## rakerdeal (Oct 28, 2008)

And the guy who ran GE for 20 years had fake accounting which made him too a hero although the day he left the business recorded huge writedowns and losses on the (easiest place to cheat) insurance division. Years of painful accountability followed. This is the way America loves it : Heroes and villians.....they sell well. What idiot doesn't think doping is still going on in both professional and top level amateur cycling?


----------



## Kiwiplague (Jul 22, 2011)

Kiwi_GR_Biker said:


> Agreed. They were all juicing so it was a level playing field and he still won 7 times. Stripping him of the titles is pointless. Does it go to the next cheat that was never caught?


Not all of them were doping, what about Christophe Bassons? One of the (admittedly few) riders who refused drugs and was absolutely pilloried for it by a lot of other riders, including Lance. If you don't believe me, read this - Christophe Bassons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What chance did he ever have of winning? Why not give him the win?

I have always hated the "they were all on the juice, so it still counts for something" argument, it does _nothing_ for the credibilty of cycling.


----------



## nuffink (Feb 21, 2010)

My thoughts?

It wouldn't have been anywhere near as big a deal if he hadn't had a legion of fawning, arse-licking fanboi's repeating his every lie and excusing his cheating and bullying. And they're still doing it.

The craven, moral pygmies created such a backlash of revulsion toward the man, from people who'd normally not give a damn, that they all but guaranteed his downfall and that the retribution would be severe.

So all of you "they were all at it" and "tested clean 500 times" and "just jealous losers" merchants, give yourselves a big pat on the back. You didn't cause this but you sure helped make it worse.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Watched some of the interview and it has reinforced my opinion that he is just a lying, cheating, arrogant and remorseless SOB. Oprah is just as moronic as ever to allow this, but it does not surprise me, she has built her empire on this fawning BS that she does so well, even when she is interviewing a self-confessed cheating D'bag of the first order. He really should go to prison for a long time for what he has done.


I just reread this thinking it might be a bit strong, but then realised that I still feel the same way. If he had shown an ounce of contrition I might have softened my opinion...


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Saw some of the interview and he showed no remorse. He is an arrogant a'hole who deserves zero respect and zero forgiveness. Had he shown an ounce of contrition he might have caused me to think twice about saying this, but until he does, I feel the same. The only good he has done in my book is to throw light on this whole issue, an unintended result of course! I only hope the repercussions are deep and far-ranging, and the dishonesty in this sport, and possibly in all sports, is thoroughly investigated and hopefully rooted out. Lance should go to prison, he has committed some pretty serious fraud I believe. 
To those people who ask why get our panties in a wad over this, he's only a cyclist, I say that he has affected many people, and to ignore him is to condone his behavior.
To those people who say that he is still a great athlete because he was the best of a bad bunch, I call complete BS on that. He is a remorseless cheat and has shattered the dreams of many good people.
Off with his head!


----------



## Fishbucket (Dec 4, 2012)

rockerc said:


> Saw some of the interview ......Off with his head!


 Something you and I can agree on. :thumbsup:


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Fishbucket said:


> Something you and I can agree on. :thumbsup:


There is always common ground! Usually on a trail somewhere...


----------



## elpoocho (Jan 8, 2008)

Watched the whole painful interview. An arrogant asshat interviewed by an arrogant asshat. I thought the statement Oprah made about fame and its effects on personality - jerks become bigger jerk, humanitarians become bigger humanitarians. I kinda thought she was aluding that she was the bigger of the two... I mean, she has a magazine that features her on every cover.

I can't deny that I was duped. I always wanted to believe that he was clean - I always knew he wasn't. I can't deny the good he has done with the Livestrong foundation. He has inspired many. I have always thought he was a jerk, but I likened him to Micheal Jordon or Tiger Woods. That type of person - they have tremendous focus, but they lose touch with reality.

I wish they would have had someone help Oprah with the interview. She knows absolutely nothing about the sport or the people in it. I'm curious to she what she does in the second half of her show. Want to hear more from George Hincappe. I want to hear more about his comeback and Alberto Contador. 

Did he dope for the Leadville 100 ? 

At the end of it all, Lance is an asshat, but he has raised millions and millions for cancer research and will continue to do that. For that, I'll give him somewhat of a pass. I won't throw away my Livestrong bands because that doesn't mean "Lance Armstrong" to me.

He rode the bike. That asshat can ride.


----------



## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

"He rode the bike. That asshat can ride." Oh wait, he can ride when he's doped! He committed perjury, felony fraud, and his actions will effect the lives of many young cycling athletes who dreamed of a bike-riding career. Those young athletes will be denied. The International Olympic Committee said it will not allow cycling (Road or MTB) in future games if the UCI was complicit in his actions (they were). His sponsors will claw back all of his wages; he will lose all of his winnings; he will not have much, if any assets remaining after all of this. The only good thing that came from any of this is the Live Strong Foundation. That entity will continue to do good things.


----------



## Russ Skinner (Oct 23, 2005)

The light air in the room, and the laughter made it obvious why he selected a talkshow host and not a news reporter to conduct the interview...I think he's only making things worse for himself...if that's even possible.

One comment that really burns me...he couldn't remember whether or not he sued Emma O'reilly because he had sued so many people. Yet another slap in the face....


----------



## bikecop (May 20, 2004)

*the phone call*

lance: Hi oprah, ths is lance
oprah: hi lance
L: listen i need to confess to get these people off my back, would you be interested in that interview?
O: sure, can i ask all the hard questions?
L: sure, but i will write the script
O: no
L: come on your network is about to go under, you need me
O: ok, but we have to at least make it look good
L: right, and it has to look sincere too


----------



## shamrok (Aug 2, 2012)

does anybody have a screen cap of his face after she rolled the tape of his testimony saying that Michele Ferrari was a clean doctor. that was priceless


----------



## Millfox (Jun 22, 2012)

Here's a question. Would you guys go on a ride with him?


----------



## StevieGriff (Jan 8, 2013)

shekky said:


> oprah winfrey, people. american tabloid television at its finest.
> 
> i dunno, to me something doesn't quite smell right about this.
> 
> however, that's just my (humble) opinion and everyone has a right to their own opinion.


100% agree, was never really a big Armstrong fan but something really doesn't add about all of this, there is definitely more than meets the eye and a hell of a lot more sh*t waiting to hit the fan. What really sticks out is that other cyclists like George Hincapie that testified against Lance and admitted to doping only received a 6 month ban apposed to Lance's lifetime ban. But meh, I don't think I really care, people are getting far too worked up over all of this, especially the morons who think Armstrong should get a jail sentence.


----------



## cbrossman (Mar 23, 2004)

*Fat joke in front of Oprah*

I loved the look on her face when Lance made a fat joke, something like "at least I didn't call her fat".
I want her to ask "what did Trek know?", "what did the sponsors know?". Lots of people made money off of Lance's success, I suspect that made it easier to get away with it for all these years!


----------



## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

KRob said:


> Confession is only liberating if there's real remorse attached to it. Lance is only sorry he got caught.....not sorry he cheated, lied, bullied, etc. He even said as much in the interview. "If I hadn't come back after retiring we wouldn't be sitting here."
> 
> I mean he did flat out admit most of the things he did..... but he never would've done that had he not been caught.


Seemed to me the "confession" was more about him than any genuine intent or remorse to make things right.

"Yes, I doped, but...."
"Yes, I did that, but...."
"Yes, I said that, but...."

There was an attempt to justify or at least minimize it all and none of it was his fault. It was the culture. Dope in your blood was like air in your tires... you had to have it to ride. None of it was his fault or anything he could have done anything about or change.

No, it seemed to me to be more spin than anything else.



Kiwi_GR_Biker said:


> Agreed. They were all juicing so it was a level playing field and he still won 7 times. Stripping him of the titles is pointless. Does it go to the next cheat that was never caught?


I've heard so many people say that and I wonder if it's a true statement. Dope will have different effects on people - more on some, less on others - so is it really level? Is this an argument with any merit whatsoever? I don't think it is.

To answer your question about the titles, they're just leaving them open; no one won the Tour during those years.


----------



## calboy (Nov 3, 2005)

I truly believe that because of Lance's story of achievement - near defeat - comeback; it generated soooo much media attention and MONEY through the years that the cycling community turned a blind eye. He was too big to fail. They could've took him down anytime they wanted to. Just think of all the people who got caught cheating while Lance just kept on riding.


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

StevieGriff said:


> 100% agree, was never really a big Armstrong fan but something really doesn't add about all of this, there is definitely more than meets the eye and a hell of a lot more sh*t waiting to hit the fan. What really sits out as well is that none of the other cyclists like George Hincapie that testified against Lance and admitted to doping only received a 6 month ban apposed to Lance's lifetime ban. But meh, I don't think I really care, people are getting far too worked up over all of this, especially the morons who think Armstrong should get a jail sentence.


You know perjury and fraud are felony offenses with minimum jail or prison sentences, right?


----------



## calboy (Nov 3, 2005)

Millfox said:


> Here's a question. Would you guys go on a ride with him?


I'd love to................and throw a tire pump in his spokes! :thumbsup:


----------



## DirtDummy (Aug 22, 2005)

lelebebbel said:


> Ok I keep reading "He was still the best, because he beat all the other cheaters"
> 
> _*NO.*_
> 
> ...


^^^^^ This.


----------



## bucksaw87 (Jun 18, 2007)




----------



## elpoocho (Jan 8, 2008)

I'm guessing that Oprah will somehow get the interview to end with the focus on the Livestrong foundation. Their donations will keep coming. They will continue to do good. For the time being, it will be without Lance. He will be back with Livestrong at some point. He *can* and *will* do good there. More than we will ever know.

Sucks for cycling. He didn't invent doping. I actually believe that he believes that EPO etc comes along with the game - air in the tires, water in the bottle. He's delusional at best. Almost feel sorry for him....almost. Once an asshat, always an asshat. He is a sociopath.

FU Cancer. Everybody donate, no matter how small, it helps.


----------



## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

lelebebbel said:


> Ok I keep reading "He was still the best, because he beat all the other cheaters"
> 
> _*NO.*_
> 
> ...


YES. Very well said.


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

I'm just glad that it will no longer be acceptable for men to wear stupid yellow rubber bracelets.


----------



## B-Mac (Oct 2, 2008)

The whole thing's freakin' sad. I really looked up to the guy, only to discover that he is, as previously mentioned, an epic asshat. One of the last century's greatest liars. I think his fall has only begun. Many lawsuits & possible perjury charges to follow. Marion Grace did 6 months for perjuring herself to the feds, Lance could be looking at the same thing. 

While I question the decision to bar him from competition - who is the federal government to dictate who can and cannot ride their bike in a race?? - I ultimately think he deserves it. He's revealed himself to be a sociopathic liar. Who's to say that he'll stop doping? He's shown that he's very skillful at avoiding detection as well. He bought the ticket for this trip, let the asshat take it.


----------



## B-Mac (Oct 2, 2008)

My answer to the OP's question: Not anytime soon. MF'r needs to CURE cancer or something. Then maybe.


----------



## petersbike (Apr 5, 2006)

B-Mac said:


> The whole thing's freakin' sad. I really looked up to the guy, only to discover that he is, as previously mentioned, an epic asshat. One of the last century's greatest liars. I think his fall has only begun. Many lawsuits & possible perjury charges to follow. Marion Grace did 6 months for perjuring herself to the feds, Lance could be looking at the same thing.
> 
> While I question the decision to bar him from competition - who is the federal government to dictate who can and cannot ride their bike in a race?? - I ultimately think he deserves it. He's revealed himself to be a sociopathic liar. Who's to say that he'll stop doping? He's shown that he's very skillful at avoiding detection as well. He bought the ticket for this trip, let the asshat take it.


He subscribed to the rules of USADA and the UCI to race bicycles. There for he must abide by the ban placed upon him. Lifetime ban good.


----------



## Jaybo (Mar 5, 2008)

The reason Lance got hammered wasn't for doing drugs but for being an obstinate D-Bag. All the best TDF riders did drugs...and some of the commoners. I couldn't care less...


----------



## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

Everybody sing along


----------



## trevor_b (Nov 21, 2012)

Didn't read many posts but are there people out there that actually care that he doped? There's more important things going on than whether or not someone doped, especially in the cycling world where doping is prominent at the highest level.

I take issue with the fact that he financially and professionally ruined people he was once close to because they were telling the truth.


----------



## mbco1975 (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm not sure what some of you were expecting from the interview (harakiri perhaps?), but I didn't hear one excuse for what he did and just admitted it. 

Yes, he said for him dope in his blood was like air in your tires, but he was talking about himself, not the Tour. He even said the excuse that everyone else was doing it isn't an excuse and everyone wasn't doing it. This is all on me. I was the team captain, I should have lead by example and I was a bad example. He even called himself a cheating bullying prick (or something like that). 

He might end up in jail. He might end up bankrupt. Does he deserve it? Yes. 

But I think the best thing he can do now is devote his life to charity work. He'll save more lives than most of us combined on this forum ever will. That's not an excuse for a pass, but at least he's done some good with what he cheated to get. There are so many cheats and lairs in this world that have done similar (whether in sport, businesses or politics) and have done it all for themselves. 

The question is will he be greedy and do nothing, or will he use his fame to do something good with it? Hopefully the latter, but we shall see.....


----------



## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Question for those who follow road racing Closely. Please, in your honest opinion, name the last rider to win the TDF Clean, no PEDs.

I would like to think Cadel won clean, but he met with Lance's doping doctor Ferrari in 2000, he does seem to suffer much more than the rest of the GC leaders, still doubtful.

I have to go back to 1990, Greg Lemond.

Edit: 2008 Carlos Sastre, seems quite clean.


----------



## Mtn-Rider (May 21, 2010)

After seeing his Oprah interview, I have no more doubts about LA being a compulsive liar who deserves to pay for the damages he has inflicted. Hit him hard, send out the right message, clean up the mess for a better future.


----------



## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

I forget 

What are we suppossed to forget???


----------



## Millfox (Jun 22, 2012)

calboy said:


> I'd love to................and throw a tire pump in his spokes! :thumbsup:


Well would be quite a catty behaviour. . He's also jerk but doesn't permission you to attack a person. And potentially damage a pretty bike!

I was expecting responses like Yes I'd go for a ride with him/No, he has sunk in my eyes too low./ Maybe... ect. But not an act as a friend and attack when not looking. That's just childish.

I apologise if you've met your post as a satire.


----------



## mbco1975 (Feb 28, 2012)

snowdrifter said:


> Question for those who follow road racing Closely. Please, in your honest opinion, name the last rider to win the TDF Clean, no PEDs.
> 
> I would like to think Cadel won clean, but he met with Lance's doping doctor Ferrari in 2000, he does seem to suffer much more than the rest of the GC leaders, still doubtful.
> 
> I have to go back to 1990, Greg Lemond.


Why do you think Lemond is cleaner than Wiggins? Neither have tested positive for band substances and testing now is much much stricter.

I thought this was an interesting article about how riders power to weight ratio in the TdF is going down as bike technology and sports medicine is improving which implies it's cleaner than it once was (it's pretty subjective though).

BBC News - Tour de France: Are drug-free cyclists slower?


----------



## Jeddz3 (Oct 26, 2007)

*Forgive or forget*

In the past when celebrities, sports people or politicians transgress and then come out and apologise it is our nature to say "Oh well he seems to want to make amends and we should give them the benefit of our forgiveness."

Let's not forget. He will, as another suggested, probably go back to work in the foundation and regardless of all that he looses as a result of all this still live a very good life and begin to put back the pieces.

In the end it is his journey and 'this scandal' is just a small blip in what has been a very good life, just not a life well lived. He probably will be a better person for having to suffer this humiliation, and there are many out there that won't judge him harshly, sycophants are like that, he will bounce back.

More is the pity. What about all those along the way that were trodden on, bullied and whose lives were scarred by his unrelenting ego? That damage has been done and his apology won't make them feel any better. What about the thousands of athletes who devoted their lives to honest competition? Do they get any compensation for having been robbed of their efforts?

He can piss off.


----------



## Mtn-Rider (May 21, 2010)

This has gone beyond being about Lance, it's now become about creating a clean path for future athletes. There's no place for Lance in it, he veered off long ago.


----------



## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

just my take. i didn't watch it so...

everyone involved from the beginning were and are adults. they ALL didn't give a sh*t til someone turned up the heat and the moneygrab was becoming more and more in jeopardy. Lance turned on those people. Is that really a big surprise? really? I've been helping you win by cheating myself and I'm not gonna expect you to go into self-preservation mode when i do when we all get busted, knowing full well from the very beginning along the way every aspect and outcome? that's classic shyte when we would get into trouble as kids. he did it..no, he did it, he made me do it, nah unh, liar, you're a liar..

i'm not a fanboi, never been but expecting him to show any different character as the one that's been on the podium defying and denying for 7 consecutive yrs is completely unrealistic. expecting any kind or hint of atonement on oprah is laughable.


----------



## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

mbco1975 said:


> Why do you think Lemond is cleaner than Wiggins? Neither have tested positive for band substances and testing now is much much stricter.
> 
> I thought this was an interesting article about how riders power to weight ratio in the TdF is going down as bike technology and sports medicine is improving which implies it's cleaner than it once was (it's pretty subjective though).
> 
> BBC News - Tour de France: Are drug-free cyclists slower?


1. I've watched old footage of the TDFs back to mid 80s, during Lemonds wins, the pace was much slower, much more suffering, bonking, riders on their faces. It seemed legit, in my opinion.

2. Team Sky's Performance was classic USPS, Wiggins, Froome, Roche, Rogers all tearing a$$ ! team doctor Geert Leinders was implicated as running Rabobank's program, lot's of sketchy... :nono:

You're right testing is better, and it's becoming cleaner, but not clean IMO. Testing is always behind. The Bio Passport is helping, but not fullproof, it actually allows for micro blood boosting with the range a riders hematocrit level can be.


----------



## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

mtnbiker4life said:


> How do we know he was a terrific athlete because he was doping...


lets see... because he was training while undergoing cancer treatment and because even doping (many pros do, he is just on the spotlight) most Tour de France cyclists wouldn't make it 1 time, let alone 7.
I really don't understand why people is so surprised. Maybe they are too naive and live in a bubble.
These are PRO. That means that if you win you get money, send your kid to college and be able to continue eating when you are old. They don't have a carreer or trade. They have a very limited sport "span". They don't ride for "fun" and they don't do it for health, they do it to win and that is called being a PRO.
It would be nice if everyone would play nice and the field would be leveled but is not.
That is it


----------



## Kiwi_GR_Biker (Nov 17, 2012)

calboy said:


> I truly believe that because of Lance's story of achievement - near defeat - comeback; it generated soooo much media attention and MONEY through the years that the cycling community turned a blind eye. He was too big to fail. They could've took him down anytime they wanted to. Just think of all the people who got caught cheating while Lance just kept on riding.


It was the same with Tiger Woods and all his indiscrections. Too many people making too much money. Nobody wants to cook the goose that laid the golden egg. But Tigers indiscrections were in his private life and he didn't cheat at his sport in anyway or hurt other competitors. So Armstrong's offending is on a totally different level altogether.


----------



## StevieGriff (Jan 8, 2013)

wmac said:


> You know perjury and fraud are felony offenses with minimum jail or prison sentences, right?


It's a sport/hobby, if you wanted to chuck someone in jail for something which is totally insignificant in the grand scheme of things then half the world would be behind bars.


----------



## Kiwi_GR_Biker (Nov 17, 2012)

DavyRay said:


> You have no idea. Really. Not all teams were injecting junk. Not all teams were pressuring their riders to inject. Do you know any athletes who are 15 years old? Do you want them to start injecting roids so they can win whatever game they are playing?


Ok I retract my statement. Just seems to me the whole tour was dirty. I always assumed LA was juicing to win it seven times. How could he not be? It's the dirty stuff over and above the straight out juicing that makes this case so reprehensible IMO.


----------



## 40hills (Apr 24, 2006)

He reminds me of OJ... something's not right with him.

From "If the glove don't fit you must acquit" to "If the syringe ain't in 'im, you must acquit him".


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

StevieGriff said:


> It's a sport/hobby, if you wanted to chuck someone in jail for something which is totally insignificant in the grand scheme of things then half the world would be behind bars.


You need to do your required reading before you can participate in class discussions.


----------



## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

Looks like the common theme is not so much about the doping, but more about how Lance conducted himself with regards to his interactions with others along the way to victory.

Looks like most of us had come to grips with his doping (or simply doping in cycling) long ago...


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Yeah, its on like Donkey Kong. Wait til the Feds resume their hostilities.


----------



## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Yeah, its on like Donkey Kong. Wait til the Feds resume their hostilities.


Is this what our Tax dollars need to be spent on? We have Presidents lieing under oath, or deliberatly mis-leading Congress like in Benghazi, there's so much corruption that has far serious problems than BIKE RACING !!

If they want to recoup any gov money lost in all this, go for it.. But come on, USPS and Discovery Channel lost nothing in this, not a fricken penny, at the time of their sponsorship LA was the Man, bringing them loads of attention, well worth their investments.


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

^^^this^^^


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

snowdrifter said:


> Is this what our Tax dollars need to be spent on? We have Presidents lieing under oath, or deliberatly mis-leading Congress like in Benghazi, there's so much corruption that has far serious problems than BIKE RACING !!
> 
> If they want to recoup any gov money lost in all this, go for it.. But come on, USPS and Discovery Channel lost nothing in this, not a fricken penny, at the time of their sponsorship LA was the Man, bringing them loads of attention, well worth their investments.


They still had a business agreement which he did not honor, he defrauded the government. Its rather simple, when you break a contract you should expect some repercussions. Time to pay the Piper.


----------



## calboy (Nov 3, 2005)

Millfox said:


> Well would be quite a catty behaviour. . He's also jerk but doesn't permission you to attack a person. And potentially damage a pretty bike!
> 
> I was expecting responses like Yes I'd go for a ride with him/No, he has sunk in my eyes too low./ Maybe... ect. But not an act as a friend and attack when not looking. That's just childish.
> 
> I apologise if you've met your post as a satire.


REALLY!?! :madman:
I WAS JOKING!!!!!!!
You should be happy that someone even responded to your question.


----------



## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

snowdrifter said:


> Is this what our Tax dollars need to be spent on? We have Presidents lieing under oath, or deliberatly mis-leading Congress like in Benghazi, there's so much corruption that has far serious problems than BIKE RACING !!
> 
> If they want to recoup any gov money lost in all this, go for it.. But come on, USPS and Discovery Channel lost nothing in this, not a fricken penny, at the time of their sponsorship LA was the Man, bringing them loads of attention, well worth their investments.


In one instance, a career diplomat made an informed decision and lost his life. I do not see a comparison with any lying or cheating in sport. I could wonder why a quasi-government entity like USPS was spending money to make itself look good as well.

Perspective!


----------



## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

I'm not cool with our gov spending a bunch of tax dollars investigating baseball players and cyclistist, seems ridiculous. The money could be spent on education, creating jobs..... not tearing down some Aholes in sport.


----------



## das028 (Jan 13, 2011)

While I dont think he cheated, only leveling the playing field, I believe he did actually win lawsuits against people, or companies that accused him of doping. It is definited wrong to use any peformance enhancing drugs or take shortcuts, but actually getting lawsuits against people who where accusing him of cheating, who where actually telling the truth is really really wrong. Thats sort of thing shows how much arogance he had, and thats pretty bad.

As far as livestrong, i'm wearing my bracelot right now. I know Lance was one of the founders of the company, but that doesnt change its cause. The cause is much bigger then this. It doesnt change my opion of Livestrong what so ever. After loosing my father this year from cancer, this sort of thing is very close to my heart


----------



## crewjones (Aug 24, 2007)

bucksaw87 said:


>


that ain't right. The dude had cancer for cripes sake.


----------



## calboy (Nov 3, 2005)

I hate burst anyone's bubble but..... Lance just inflicked the largest wound on the bike racing world and he's made everyone in it look guilty. It might have been different if he cheated one time but for years and years!?!?!?! COME ON! REALLY!?! Has anyone noticed that none of the second place racers have been crowned with the Tour title yet? Wonder why??

Yes its a dark day for cycling. Ive been sick to stomach all day.


----------



## Wishful Tomcat (Mar 6, 2009)

snowdrifter said:


> But come on, USPS and Discovery Channel lost nothing in this, not a fricken penny, at the time of their sponsorship LA was the Man, bringing them loads of attention, well worth their investments.


Armstrong's financial ties were/are well woven:

https://dimspace.co.uk/la/ArmstrongBusinessConnections1707.png


----------



## etanc (Oct 2, 2009)

Sports holds an unjustified top rung, we celebrate the winners then monetize them beyond belief. This outing won't change the win at any cost mentality that runs through sports and boardrooms - the cheating will continue to evolve in attempt to avoid detection and the money will continue to flow. That a top sports star is also a solipsistic ass, willing to use their money and power to destroy any threat seems incidental until they are caught. Still pessimistic about pro cycling but I like to see mythology bubbles popped.


----------



## calboy (Nov 3, 2005)

etanc said:


> Sports holds an unjustified top rung, we celebrate the winners then monetize them beyond belief. This outing won't change the win at any cost mentality that runs through sports and boardrooms - the cheating will continue to evolve in attempt to avoid detection and the money will continue to flow. That a top sports star is also a solipsistic ass, willing to use their money and power to destroy any threat seems incidental until they are caught. Still pessimistic about pro cycling but I like to see mythology bubbles popped.


Well said.


----------



## mbco1975 (Feb 28, 2012)

calboy said:


> Has anyone noticed that none of the second place racers have been crowned with the Tour title yet? Wonder why??


Wiggins has been given 3rd place in 2009 TdF.


----------



## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

das028 said:


> While I dont think he cheated, only leveling the playing field, I believe he did actually win lawsuits against people, or companies that accused him of doping. It is definited wrong to use any peformance enhancing drugs or take shortcuts, but actually getting lawsuits against people who where accusing him of cheating, who where actually telling the truth is really really wrong. Thats sort of thing shows how much arogance he had, and thats pretty bad.
> 
> As far as livestrong, i'm wearing my bracelot right now. I know Lance was one of the founders of the company, but that doesnt change its cause. The cause is much bigger then this. It doesnt change my opion of Livestrong what so ever. After loosing my father this year from cancer, this sort of thing is very close to my heart


Seems to me that the attorneys going after innocent people should be held accountable too. Talk about fraud! LA's money hungry attorneys need to pay up too imo...not cool!:skep:


----------



## VA2SLOride (Feb 17, 2005)

I'll play the cynic-card here....I dont' care. I also have to get back to work, which happens to be something that matters in my life, unlike some D-bag who has (shockingly) pulled the wool over a majority of the public's eye to make a buck. It's all very American, really. Almost as American as apple pie, school shootings, the idea that you can have something for nothing, and an over-inflated sense of moral superiority.


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

rydbyk said:


> Seems to me that the attorneys going after innocent people should be held accountable too. Talk about fraud! LA's money hungry attorneys need to pay up too imo...not cool!:skep:


If you hire an attorney to sue somebody and you lie to them, and they win a lawsuit based on your lies, they are not in violation of any laws.

Now if they know you are lying and they let you lie in court, then the can be disbarred.

I seriously doubt that when LA sued people that he told his attorneys the truth.


----------



## petersbike (Apr 5, 2006)

I rode past a school on my ride today and some kid yells "lance armstrong".. I thought to myself , hey I didn't sue so many people that I cannot be sure if I sued so and so. Plus I don't do EPO. A few years ago they used to write "hey slow down you're not lance armstrong" on signs in peoples yards on certain downhill rides in and around Colorado.


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

^You should have yelled back, "Shut up kid, or I'll sue your ass."


----------



## P.Stefanelli (Jan 13, 2013)

I've listened to people on the talk radio circuit, and what others have posted here and elsewhere. I have to at least give my .02 on this as I find this very irritating. First IMO I hear more people than not say things like "well that's how it goes" or some fancy I don't care attitude like; it just how things are. Maybe not directly at the Lance/Oprah interview but across the board with drug use in sports. In life.. sports.. work, whatever. It's your freedom to do as you wish so long as it's not hurting others. That's how I look at life for the most part. It's when people have this forgive and forget attitude. I get it people are repentant of sins; however when your a leading sports figure, hero or any number of high profile type of people/person you have to be held to account when children are involved. The more we just let things go our children see this. Makes them want to cheat. They see it as, well maybe not the "right" thing to do, but what the heck.. everyone else is doing it. This is the problem with this country and many others frankly. We don't stand for principals anymore. There is no standard anymore. Morals, greed etc; it all stems from one thing. A lack of respect for yourself. Thus making the collective suffer.

A quick example. Jimmy Rollins from the Philadelphia Phillies. Once in a while he doesn't hussle it down the line to first base, or second w/e. I get the argument that well "I popped the ball up there's no reason to hussle" isnt even close to being good enough. As a matter of fact im offended at this type of thing. Same attitude professional drug users have. (Im not saying Rollins does drugs). So your telling me that I have to teach my son not to hustle each and every time. Just.. sometimes.. So I have to buy my Phillies tickets months in advance. Tell my employer at least two weeks in advance. Plan to get this kids together, the wife, driving in traffic, the mess, sloppy ice cream bars, yelling...all of that great stuff just to go see a game of so-called professionals tell me they don't feel like hustling.

The great thing about this country is competition. The ability for there to be winners and losers. From the stock markets to sports. Its the greed in society that ruins everything. The lazy effort made for people to be held accountable is pathetic. Nothing will change in society, sports, drugs etc: until we all make the changes within. Teaching proper life skills to the next generation is our great task. We are failing miserably. Sorry for the rant guys/gals but I had to get that off my chest.


----------



## poppa#1 (Jun 28, 2006)

My LIVEWRONG bracelet had not been worn since 2004. Thanks Big Johnny! Anyone still have theirs? I am glad that no other human is dishonest, ha.


----------



## TX_Shifter (Aug 14, 2007)




----------



## Russ Skinner (Oct 23, 2005)

Couldn't agree more P. Stefanelli--I have plenty of friends that say "everybody was doing it." As a teacher I can't help but use the example that if their kid came home and explained to them that they cheated on a test, only because they saw a bunch of others cheating....


----------



## redd4573 (Apr 15, 2012)

Well said poppa#1:thumbsup:. Football at any level is the worst at teaching kids the at all and any cost WIN!!! I understand we as parents should teach and push our children to do thier best to succeed, but at what level do you stop? All the major sports leagues are doing nothing to really stop any of it because the greed factor $$$,$$$,$$$. That just encourages the behavior. So we must start there because we all know sh** rolls down hill. :skep:


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

i will not post it here, but search you tube for george carlin "f*ck lance"...


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

calboy said:


> I hate burst anyone's bubble but..... Lance just inflicked the largest wound on the bike racing world and he's made everyone in it look guilty. It might have been different if he cheated one time but for years and years!?!?!?! COME ON! REALLY!?! Has anyone noticed that none of the second place racers have been crowned with the Tour title yet? Wonder why??
> 
> Yes its a dark day for cycling. Ive been sick to stomach all day.


Probably the most truthful statement within any LA thread :thumbsup:

Wait till they make us turn in our ... Anything over 7 gears, assault bikes, and force us to register what we are allowed to possess.

NAW !!!
Ban them all


----------



## edley (Dec 8, 2006)

*He lied to Oprah?!!!*

To paraphrase, is there no honor among gasbags?

Lance Armstrong May Have Lied to Oprah to Cover Crimes: Investigators - Page 1
Lance Armstrong May Have Lied to Oprah to Cover Crimes: Investigators


----------



## poppa#1 (Jun 28, 2006)

Everyone needs to remember that ANY business/corporation out there will cheat to ANY extent to make a profit. The neglected joke here is that most folks believe that Phil Knight did not know about this. HA, Uncle Phil is aware of anything that involves that much money. This is not as simple as one lying Texan fooling everyone. All of my riding friends have always believed that most of the pro circuit doped. Not all were caught, but that means very little. How many carbon road bikes did Trek sell before Lance? If money is involved PEOPLE will do anything! I am not defending anyone, but those who pontificate from that steed will fall and fall... splat


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

This is such ground breaking news that I see why you didn't just tag this to one of the many other Lance Armstrong threads.

I mean seriously why do we act surprised, and better yet why do we care?


Edit:

This comment was in reference to two posts up which was originally a whole new thread and then later moved and tagged to this one.


----------



## Blueliner (Apr 5, 2010)

StevieGriff said:


> It's a sport/hobby, if you wanted to chuck someone in jail for something which is totally insignificant in the grand scheme of things then half the world would be behind bars.


When you mix many millions of dollars with that level of subterfuge and skullduggery it will get real ugly for him soon. He seems to be limiting his confessions to stuff more than 5 or 6 years ago...statue of limitations is coming into play here?

Blueliner


----------



## axm1388 (Oct 6, 2005)

forget it lets move on
XMAN


----------



## mtnbiker4life (Sep 19, 2005)

BBW said:


> lets see... because he was training while undergoing cancer treatment and because even doping (many pros do, he is just on the spotlight) most Tour de France cyclists wouldn't make it 1 time, let alone 7.
> I really don't understand why people is so surprised. Maybe they are too naive and live in a bubble.
> These are PRO. That means that if you win you get money, send your kid to college and be able to continue eating when you are old. They don't have a carreer or trade. They have a very limited sport "span". They don't ride for "fun" and they don't do it for health, they do it to win and that is called being a PRO.
> It would be nice if everyone would play nice and the field would be leveled but is not.
> That is it


Not naive, but believing his public denials. Now that it's over and information on his scheme is coming to light it seems Lance is just another PRO that suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder. So you're saying once a professional athlete's days are over they can't have another career? Maybe they will not be able to live the same lifestyle but I don't believe for one minute that they are used up and useless not being able to provide for their families.


----------



## petersbike (Apr 5, 2006)

Lance is pretty slick. Don't buy anything he says happened after 2005. I believed he doped then too. It was pretty sad when he said he was offended that they thought his blood samples seemed doped during the 2009 + 2010 TDF. He is a crafty SOB. Wish he would have come clean but what was I thinking? Sure there will be some ripples for the next year or two until this is all sorted out. DOping is wrong but I understand why some do it but all the other BS ; come on?


----------



## guitarmark (Nov 14, 2007)

Meh......F#@K Lance George Carlin - **** Lance - YouTube


----------



## markymark (Oct 30, 2004)

Thoughts on the interview:

Never watched oprah before, thought she was pretty good actually.

It was good being able to watch it on teh internet at the same time as everyone else in the world.

The sound was terrible. One of the biggest tv interviews in history and they use a $20 scratchy lapel mic on Lance. It scratched every time he moved.. They even had it attached wrong. Aaaargh, drove me insane. Use a fecking proper mic next time!

And Lance? He is dead to me.

Although I think he should go on the pro poker tour. He would be an awesome poker player.


----------



## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

Kiwiplague said:


> Not all of them were doping, what about Christophe Bassons? One of the (admittedly few) riders who refused drugs and was absolutely pilloried for it by a lot of other riders, including Lance. If you don't believe me, read this - Christophe Bassons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> What chance did he ever have of winning? Why not give him the win?
> 
> I have always hated the "they were all on the juice, so it still counts for something" argument, it does _nothing_ for the credibilty of cycling.


This is what he said 


> I'm not the only clean rider but there aren't many who can say 'I don't take drugs'.


That certainly implies almost all were cheating. I wasn't though so they can give me money as well. I wasn't racing though.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

markymark said:


> Although I think he should go on the pro poker tour. He would be an awesome poker player.


His body language gives him away, he would be a crappy poker player imo.


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

kjlued said:


> This is such ground breaking news that I see why you didn't just tag this to one of the many other Lance Armstrong threads.
> 
> I mean seriously why do we act surprised, and better yet why do we care?


You obviously do not care about this topic with more than 120 posts devoted to the subject within the past week alone


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

ok, i've been flipping back and forth between the Interview and thunder/mavericks game so here's my observation:

oprah is beginning to look more and more like a cape buffalo.

that is all...


----------



## mtn.skratch (Oct 19, 2008)

shekky said:


> ok, i've been flipping back and forth between the Interview and thunder/mavericks game so here's my observation:
> 
> oprah is beginning to look more and more like a cape buffalo.
> 
> that is all...


now that is funny


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

shekky said:


> oprah is beginning to look more and more like a cape buffalo.
> 
> that is all...


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

wmac said:


>


me racist? i don't think so. most of my ancestors were slaves.


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Millfox said:


> Here's a question. Would you guys go on a ride with him?


Unquestionably, no.


----------



## Fishbucket (Dec 4, 2012)

P.Stefanelli said:


> just to go see a game of so-called professionals tell me they don't feel like hustling..


See, This is why I stopped watching sports.... I got tired of millionares playing games.



edley said:


> Lance Armstrong May Have Lied to Oprah to Cover Crimes: Investigators


 Wait... what ?

yeah, I think I heard that some where....



Fishbucket said:


> Lance has a couple of give aways, they were shown when he was in
> Prior interviews about doping where he denied it. He lied enough to see
> All those ques. His biggest one is shaking his head " no " when he's lying . Another
> Is stalling with the answer. Watch for it tonight.
> I'm no documented expert, this is just my opinion.


Burp.


----------



## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

SV11 said:


> Axe, like I said in my post, LA did not win 7 TDF's. Giving me a neg rep without proof is a copout, I thought you were bigger than that, my mistake!


The proof? You do not know the facts of the story? I laugh in the general direction of this thread.

This whole situation and world wide schadenfreude party does piss me off. It achieves nothing positive, contrary to what all the "doping" haters want to believe.


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

shekky said:


> ok, i've been flipping back and forth between the Interview and thunder/mavericks game so here's my observation:
> 
> oprah is beginning to look more and more like a cape buffalo.
> 
> that is all...


...but how 'bout those Thunder?


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

whodaphuck said:


> ...but how 'bout those Thunder?


i was hoping that the mavs would hit the three to send it into double OT to save me from having to listen to the notre dame nonsense...:madman:


----------



## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

Am I wrong in thinking Lance"s confession is only so he can dabble in a bit of Tri action...?


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

geo025 said:


> Am I wrong in thinking Lance"s confession is only so he can dabble in a bit of Tri action...?


sir, lance cannot participate in any sanctioned event. he said so himself in the interview.


----------



## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

Axe said:


> The proof? You do not know the facts of the story? I laugh in the general direction of this thread.
> 
> This whole situation and world wide schadenfreude party does piss me off. It achieves nothing positive, contrary to what all the "doping" haters want to believe.


The truth of the matter is he is stripped of his titles, it's a fact whether you like it or not. The fact remains that he did not win 7 TDF titles, you don't want to acknowledge that fact, that is the reason why you gave me a neg rep right?


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

You are both right.

The fact that they stripped the titles does not change the fact that he did initially did win them. You can take the the titles and take his name out of the books as the winner, but you can not change the fact that he still won the (even if he did cheat),

LA won the TDF 7 times but he is no longer the winner of those 7 TDF's..


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

wmac said:


> You obviously do not care about this topic with more than 120 posts devoted to the subject within the past week alone


Thanks for your insight it is duly noted.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Pedantics, doesn't really matter does it... I never gave a flying f*ck about Lance until all this blew up, never really had any cause to dislike him, and I have never been a road racing fan, but this affair has struck a chord in me. What a dick he is. Now I would really enjoy if he just fades into obscurity, suitably punished by having any reward he has gleaned thru his cheating removed, and hopefully a prison term for his continued fraudulent behavior. Perhaps this will all have some ongoing benefit in aiding work to rid doping from all sports. Right now tho, much as in the same way that the mass killer craves notoriety in his actions, Lance the massively egotistical sociopath is just feeding on all of this attention. He is exhibiting the true attributes of an addict such as he has always been. May he be slapped down and fade away.


----------



## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

rockerc said:


> Pedantics, doesn't really matter does it... I never gave a flying f*ck about Lance until all this blew up, never really had any cause to dislike him, and I have never been a road racing fan, but this affair has struck a chord in me. What a dick he is. Now I would really enjoy if he just fades into obscurity, suitably punished by having any reward he has gleaned thru his cheating removed, and hopefully a prison term for his continued fraudulent behavior. Perhaps this will all have some ongoing benefit in aiding work to rid doping from all sports. Right now tho, much as in the same way that the mass killer craves notoriety in his actions, Lance the massively egotistical sociopath is just feeding on all of this attention. He is exhibiting the true attributes of an addict such as he has always been. May he be slapped down and fade away.


That is a pretty good summary, but, and a very sad but; it is far more likely he will end up being the public face of a new, highly-funded anti-doping board for professional sport after all this settles. Seems the western world likes to elevate arsehole, cheating, evil identities to prove we have the right morals and can forgive ongoing corruption to make us all feel good about ourselves.


----------



## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

shekky said:


> me racist? i don't think so. most of my ancestors were slaves.


So you can't be racist because you descend from slaves? Perhaps the meaning of racism is being limited to a sub-definition these days?

Before you flame, this comment is not about you. I just want to take all the power away from LA and OW. They don't deserve it.


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

rockerc said:


> Pedantics, doesn't really matter does it... *I never gave a flying f*ck about Lance* until all this blew up, never really had any cause to dislike him, and I have never been a road racing fan, but this affair has struck a chord in me. What a *dick* he is. Now I would really enjoy if he just *fades into obscurity*, suitably punished by having any reward he has gleaned thru his *cheating *removed, and hopefully a *prison term *for his *continued fraudulent behavior.* Perhaps this will all have some ongoing benefit in aiding work to rid doping from all sports. Right now tho, much as in the same way that the mass killer *craves notoriety *in his actions, *Lance the massively egotistical sociopath* is just feeding on all of this attention. He is exhibiting the true *attributes of an addict *such as he has always been. *May he be slapped down and fade away*.


You pretty much nailed my feelings about Lance.

The guy was a more or less nothing in my book ... But now he's a something BAD to be forgotten :thumbsup:


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Result of a search for sociopath:


----------



## SSNut (Jun 6, 2011)

My summary is based upon the 3 twitter hashtags that had me laughing in stitches:

#livewrong
#liestrong
#doprah


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

kjlued said:


> Thanks for your insight it is duly noted.


You're welcome


----------



## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Interestingly, just this AM, I saw that Lance now has a movie coming out about his life. 

Hmm, "hey movie people, my career and earnings are in the tank. If I do a tell all, it'll make for a blockbuster, how about a movie deal?"

And Lance walks away, wealthy again.....


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

I thought they already made it:


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

My thoughts on the Oprah interview-

At first I couldn't believe, "No way- this is NOT happening!"
Next, I became angry, "How could he do such a thing!? What a ****ing ***wipe!"
Then I thought "Maybe it will still be O.K., perhaps he will repent, all will be forgiven and I can continue to worship him as before".
I got really depressed after that, "Why go on? What's the point?"
Finally I accepted reality and came to terms with the fact that he is gone, never to return. 


What next, Football? Baseball? Professional wrestling???? Oh the humanity!


----------



## sgill32 (Aug 28, 2005)

Saw the interview and here are my thoughts:

Oprah did it for ratings boost and to draw more viewers to her struggling network and to maintain the 'biggest in the business' status. I would love to have been a fly on the wall when they met in Maui to negotiate the interview. I just wonder how much she paid Lance to come on her show to 'confess'. And also wonder the conditions Lance laid out as far as the line of questioning and tone of the interview.

For me Lance has lost ALL credibility. "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." -George Bush.

It's clear to me that he's a pathological liar and completely narcissistic. He pretty much admitted in the interview that he wouldn't have come clean on his own had he not been busted. Based on his body language and his response to the questions it's apparent to me that he has little to no remorse for what he has done. I think he deserves sever punishment for decades of organized deception, lying under oath & malicious attacks on those that exposed the truth about him. He's a disgrace to the sport of cycling & the spirit of competition in general.

The one silver lining in all of this is the Livestrong Foundation. But in the back of my mind it makes me think that was all part of his plan to cover up the truth by bamboozling people with philanthropy. Regardless, he did the right thing by stepping down which I applaud and hopefully it will live on to help those in need.


----------



## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

I only saw a few news items on the interview , they did mention he wasn't being paid.
Maybe acting is his next move... Days of Our Livestrong?


----------



## calboy (Nov 3, 2005)

I think they should change the name Livestrong to Liestrong. Just for the sake of honoring "Cycling's greatest rider".


----------



## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

calboy said:


> I think they should change the name Livestrong to Liestrong. Just for the sake of honoring "Cycling's greatest *fraudster/cheat*".


Fixed it.
Calling him "Cyclings greatest rider" is disrespecting all those riders who won without the aid of drugs.


----------



## Fishbucket (Dec 4, 2012)

sgill32 said:


> He pretty much admitted in the interview that he wouldn't have come clean on his own had he not been busted. .


 Hey ! hEY ! .....:nono:

Dont come in here with your well though out and meaningfull post !!



:lol:


----------



## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

t0pcat said:


> He did what most everyone else was doing---who cares its like everyone else in life anymore whats 5 mph over the speed limit so long as i don't get caught,


Your comment would be relevant if someone got caught speeding 5mph over the speed limit, and then proceeded to deny it, and with tons of money at their disposal, went on a vendetta and ruined the life of the officer who gave them a ticket. For me, the doping wasn't the big deal. It was the fact that he would, without hesitation, ruin anyone's life that got in his way or even accused him of wrong-doings...

Doing the right thing with millions of people watching is meaningless...doing the right thing when *no one *is watching shows a persons true character...


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

Ridnparadise said:


> So you can't be racist because you descend from slaves? Perhaps the meaning of racism is being limited to a sub-definition these days?
> 
> Before you flame, this comment is not about you. I just want to take all the power away from LA and OW. They don't deserve it.


actually, i have relatives in columbus who are unbelievably racist.

but i get your point and understand why you want to take power away from oprah and lance.

and if you look at the eyes of this animal: 




and then look at oprah's eyes, you might see the similarity. i'll bet she's an absolute horror to work for...


----------



## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

StevieGriff said:


> It's a sport/hobby, if you wanted to chuck someone in jail for something which is totally insignificant in the grand scheme of things then half the world would be behind bars.


What I/we do is a sport/hobby. What he was doing was his job/profession. Big difference. You should be thrown in jail for being so stupid...


----------



## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

shekky said:


> me racist? i don't think so. most of my ancestors were slaves.


hahahaha....that picture made my day!!! :thumbsup:


----------



## Dirt Engineer (Sep 12, 2012)




----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

^lol


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

wmac said:


> You're welcome


:thumbsup:


----------



## dirtyjack (Jan 22, 2010)

Not defending what he's done, but a couple of notable takeaways - 1) he did an ok job of relaying the point that everyone else at the top was doping too (IMO, it needed to be said), and 2) he didn't name names.

I though Tyler's response was a bit revealing as to why Lance was as reserved as he was with his answers.


----------



## steadite (Jan 13, 2007)

Why is this roadie crap in the passion forum???


----------



## steadite (Jan 13, 2007)

Why is this roadie crap in the passion forum???


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

steadite said:


> Why is this crap in the passion forum???


Because Lance took the whole world for a ride.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

And people are very passionate about it as you can readily see, no matter which side they land on.


----------



## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

steadite said:


> Why is this crap in the passion forum???


I guess there was no room left in the 29er forum.


----------



## xcguy (Apr 18, 2004)

daves4mtb said:


> I think that EA needs to do a new video game around this whole idea. There can be a 'training mode' where you win extra powers if you blood dope. You can have a bonus round where a guy in a balaclava runs out of the woods, wearing dark glasses and carrying a briefcase full of syringes. And then after you win, there is the 'media round' and the 'apology speech' round! Feel the excitement!


While in this "training mode" where you dope, there will be a separate window that opens up that shows everyone else doing the same thing so, in fact, level playing field!

Definition of "cheating" is where you gain an unfair advantage and the only unfair advantage Lance had in all of this was because he is Lance, not that he doped.


----------



## skiahh (Dec 26, 2003)

skiahh said:


> Seemed to me the "confession" was more about him than any genuine intent or remorse to make things right.
> 
> "Yes, I doped, but...."
> "Yes, I did that, but...."
> ...


I still think this and didn't bother to watch the second interview. I did, however, see the clip where he said he knew he had to come clean for his son and about telling his son.

Had he led the interview off with this, I think he would have been a bit more believable and would have had a more receptive audience.



geo025 said:


> Am I wrong in thinking Lance"s confession is only so he can dabble in a bit of Tri action...?


He as much as said so, based on another clip from the 2nd interview.

Again, I think this was completely self-serving and not genuine regret. Well, other than getting caught.


----------



## steadite (Jan 13, 2007)

AZ.MTNS said:


> And people are very passionate about it as you can readily see, no matter which side they land on.


So...if I'm passionate about differential equations, I should post about it here???? I don't see what LA has anything to do with passion for MTB riding.


----------



## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Interestingly, just this AM, I saw that Lance now has a movie coming out about his life.
> 
> Hmm, "hey movie people, my career and earnings are in the tank. If I do a tell all, it'll make for a blockbuster, how about a movie deal?"
> 
> And Lance walks away, wealthy again.....


Nah, a whole bunch more people (including the movie makers) sue him again when the story he gives them turns out to be a crock of...

Or the existing law suits get bigger on account of his making representations of people without their permission.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

steadite said:


> So...if I'm passionate about differential equations, I should post about it here???? I don't see what LA has anything to do with passion for MTB riding.


Then you don't get it, no shame.


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

*Hmmm...really*

Not to slam anybody, but don't say I told you so....but I got a lot of heat from roadies when I questioned Lance Armstrong of doping (and all I did was question it, I hadn't accused anyone of actually doping)...well, and I know its probably old news by now...but here is it, on Opera and Rolling stone,

"the truth isn't what I said" - Lance Armstrong

"In your opinion, was it humanly possible to win the Tour de France seven times in a row without doping?" asked Oprah.

"In my opinion, no," Armstrong replied, adding that there may have been a total of five competitors who rode without using drugs.

Read more: Video: Lance Armstrong Admits Doping in Oprah Interview | Rolling Stone 
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

Don't say I didn't tell you?

Video: Lance Armstrong Admits Doping in Oprah Interview | Rolling Stone


----------



## steadite (Jan 13, 2007)

Oh goodie...more passion-killing roadie blabber on the passion forum!


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

xcguy said:


> While in this "training mode" where you dope, there will be a separate window that opens up that shows everyone else doing the same thing so, in fact, level playing field!
> 
> Definition of "cheating" is where you gain an unfair advantage and the only unfair advantage Lance had in all of this was because he is Lance, not that he doped.


They should call it, "Rationalize dishonest, rule ignoring, contract breaking, fraudulent action mode." Hen when you get found out, you can sue people with the millions you made by living a fraudulent life and lying to people during your entire fraudulent career.

Your statement is so rediculous and so short sighted that I can't tell if you're serious or just as morally bankrupt as Lance Armstrong.

So, let's say I sell a product and there are laws against doing certain things and my company prohibits me from doing certain things, like buying expensive gifts for potential customers. But EVERY OTHER sales guy in my company and other companies do it.

What do you do? Go ahead and bribe your customers or get a new job or turn everyone in?

This Lance thing is not insignificant. It is a small indicator of what's going on throughout the entire economic system.

The most recent example is HSBC where bankers were just doing what almost every other banker does and cheated to get rich. No one is going to jail. Guys who steal a $2,000 car go to The Big House for years. LA and other fraudsters get to live in big houses. No penalties, no nothing.

Sickening.


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

kjlued said:


> :thumbsup:


You have professed a half a dozen times that this isn't worth arguing over, yet you continue to argue by insisting on getting the last word. You can't help it, can you? I've replied to you to see just how many times you'll keep doing it and I suspect it will be endless. You are a troll.

GTFO


----------



## Whason (Sep 15, 2008)

I wouldn't bet against Armstrong. He's a survivor. He's going to re sign with nike first, and when he starts to sell, bell, oakley etc will want to come back on board. I think he did what he had to do to win, and fiercly protect what he had gained. 

He came back from Cancer. This shouldn't be a problem for him.


----------



## Shiba Inu's Rock (Mar 3, 2010)

Every dope user and dealer gets caught sooner or later and the cards keep falling and will continue to fall until it's ALL out in the open.


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Yeah, like I said, old news, I just found out an hour ago, but I guess its been the "big talk around the camp fire" for several days now.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Result of a search for sociopath:


Yahoo! as your search? gross!


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

you know what irks me, a sick and sadistic $h!t bag killed many in a Colorado theater and(thankfully) instead of glorifying his actions and name not much is spoken of him anymore other then a headline burp about the trial... yet here's a guy who admitted his wrong doing and people continue to put him on a pedestal..


----------



## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

Welcome back to planet Earth. This has been on the news 24/7 for about a week now...and I don't think many people were shocked to find out it was true!!!


----------



## karma 33 (Dec 27, 2009)

I think it is pretty clear that Lance is a sociopath


----------



## calboy (Nov 3, 2005)

SV11 said:


> Fixed it.
> Calling him "Cyclings greatest rider" is disrespecting all those riders who won without the aid of drugs.


LOL! Guess youre right about that.


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

shwinn8 said:


> you know what irks me, a sick and sadistic $h!t bag killed many in a Colorado theater and(thankfully) instead of glorifying his actions and name not much is spoken of him anymore other then a headline burp about the trial... yet here's a guy who admitted his wrong doing and people continue to put him on a pedestal..


Sorry. My misunderstanding.


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

Oh, hey Shwinn, sorry, flew off the handle and misread your post. Will rep when I can.


----------



## mtnbiker4life (Sep 19, 2005)

sgill32 said:


> It's clear to me that he's a pathological liar and completely narcissistic. He pretty much admitted in the interview that he wouldn't have come clean on his own had he not been busted. Based on his body language and his response to the questions it's apparent to me that he has little to no remorse for what he has done. I think he deserves sever punishment for decades of organized deception, lying under oath & malicious attacks on those that exposed the truth about him. He's a disgrace to the sport of cycling & the spirit of competition in general.


Perfectly stated. He has along tough road ahead before people will give him a second look.......but I guess Ex-teammate Scott Mercier will be the first. I see him needing to make right on all the people he destroyed covering up his lies

Ex-teammate: Lance Armstrong is 'worthy of redemption' - TODAY News


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

wmac said:


> Sorry. My misunderstanding.


BOTH of you GTFO, then come back, then GTFO again, but this time don't come back until you have Beer, Guns, and Hot Babes.

Got it?!?


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

Here's the best I can do on short notice


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

GTFO and get some beers dood - jeez,


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

you know what the biggest most important thing is that i have yet to hear about ... all the people's lives who cancer patients who were either saved or quality of life improved by all the donations made to the foundation. much like the rest of the media world looking only for the bad things in life, money was still raised for a good cause. and If by lying pulled in as much money as he did then I guess it's not all that bad now is it... $h!t, If it were me who got cancer, survived, started a foundation, raced, raised money, and lied it would suck. but if i knew what i did helped to save at least one life then i would say the lie was worth it. yes he's a dirt bag, but there is a much bigger picture


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

shwinn8 said:


> you know what the biggest most important thing is that i have yet to hear about ... all the people's lives who cancer patients who were either saved or quality of life improved by all the donations made to the foundation. much like the rest of the media world looking only for the bad things in life, money was still raised for a good cause. and If by lying pulled in as much money as he did then I guess it's not all that bad now is it... $h!t, If it were me who got cancer, survived, raced, won, raised money, and lied it would suck. but if i knew what i did helped to save at least one life then i would say the lie was worth it


Dude, you just opened Pandora's Box there. 
Don't you know if you discuss anything good that LA did, the pack of wolves will attack.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

shwinn8 said:


> you know what the biggest most important thing is that i have yet to hear about ... all the people's lives who cancer patients who were either saved or quality of life improved by all the donations made to the foundation. much like the rest of the media world looking only for the bad things in life, money was still raised for a good cause. and If by lying pulled in as much money as he did then I guess it's not all that bad now is it... $h!t, If it were me who got cancer, survived, started a foundation, raced, raised money, and lied it would suck. but if i knew what i did helped to save at least one life then i would say the lie was worth it. yes he's a dirt bag, but there is a much bigger picture


it's a really trivial lie that keeps people distracted by bigger, and actually consequential, lies told by bankers, corporations and the Gov't

Putting that much 'weight' about lying in a sporting event is stooooooooooooooooooooooopid :madman::madman::madman:


----------



## xcguy (Apr 18, 2004)

kjlued said:


> Dude, you just opened Pandora's Box there.
> Don't you know if you discuss anything good that LA did, the pack of wolves will attack.


I truly don't understand the vitriol aimed at Lance...even if he did dope...along with everyone else...it was a level playing field and he was just a part of it. It's like some cathartic mob mentality that needs to bring down some public person.

I don't feel betrayed by Lance's "confession", I feel betrayed by the sanctimonious holier-than-thou attitude of the condemners. My opinion of Lance has not diminished one iota through all of this. It was high before, it's high now. **** the naysayers.


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

kjlued said:


> Dude, you just opened Pandora's Box there.
> Don't you know if you discuss anything good that LA did, the pack of wolves will attack.


oh No! the big bad words on the computer screen might hurt me..... now tell me i'm wrong... money was raised and lives were either saved and/or quality of life improved.


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

shwinn8 said:


> oh know! the big bad words on the computer screen might hurt me..... now tell me i'm wrong... money was raised and lives were either saved and/or quality of life improved.


Hey man, I am not arguing with you.

I agree, I think LA and LiveStrong did a lot for cancer.

So sad that people will absolutely ignore that and try and down play it. :madman:


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

xcguy said:


> I truly don't understand the vitriol aimed at Lance...even if he did dope...along with everyone else...it was a level playing field and he was just a part of it. It's like some cathartic mob mentality that needs to bring down some public person.
> 
> I don't feel betrayed by Lance's "confession", I feel betrayed by the sanctimonious holier-than-thou attitude of the condemners. My opinion of Lance has not diminished one iota through all of this. It was high before, it's high now. **** the naysayers.


Good post

I will agree, my opinion has not changed of LA one bit


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

wmac said:


> I've replied to you to see just how many times you'll keep doing it and I suspect it will be endless. You are a troll.


And yet you call me a troll.

You want me to GTFO yet you keep replying to me to see my next post. 

Maybe if you stop replying to me, maybe I will stop replying to you.

If you think I am a troll, then quit feeding me.

Of course, we are in a conundrum now because you admittedly are a troll and I just keep feeding you. Go figure. 

How about you GTFO:thumbsup:


----------



## xcguy (Apr 18, 2004)

shwinn8 said:


> oh know! the big bad words on the computer screen might hurt me..... now tell me i'm wrong... money was raised and lives were either saved and/or quality of life improved.


"oh know".


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

xcguy said:


> I truly don't understand the vitriol aimed at Lance...even if he did dope...along with everyone else...it was a level playing field and he was just a part of it. It's like some cathartic mob mentality that needs to bring down some public person.
> 
> I don't feel betrayed by Lance's "confession", I feel betrayed by the sanctimonious holier-than-thou attitude of the condemners. My opinion of Lance has not diminished one iota through all of this. It was high before, it's high now. **** the naysayers.


It is the nature of people when someone falls from grace, Roberto Duran used to give most of his fight purses to his hometown, they would have parades and celebrate him when he returned, those same people lined the streets and spit on him when he lost to Sugar Ray.


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

i no i no spelling.... if it was a spelling contest maybe i would care.


----------



## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

Awwww.

Barbra Streisand - People - YouTube


----------



## FujNoob (Dec 20, 2009)

257 ohter threads about Lance on MTBR not enough for you??


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Does anyone no if their will bee a test on this?


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

highdelll said:


> GTFO and get some beers dood - jeez,


someone pissed in your coffee? let them speak their mind... c'mon delll. it is internets.


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

osokolo said:


> someone pissed in your coffee? let them speak their mind... c'mon delll. it is internets.


no pee, just DeCaf


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

shwinn8 said:


> no pee, just DeCaf


you must send cash to livewrong. asap.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

no shame indeed.


----------



## PdlPwr (Nov 16, 2010)

After some time to mull it over, I feel it was an insincere attempt at saving face. There may have been moments of honesty but not many. Oprah ending with "the truth shall set you free" was over the top corny. LA can fall off the face of the earth now.


----------



## sinfony78 (Dec 2, 2012)

once Justin bieber comes out, I'm going to hit up one of his forums and do what you just did


----------



## woahey (Sep 1, 2010)

I know it may sound sad, but I am more surprised when I hear that a professional athlete is NOT doping...


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

PdlPwr said:


> LA can fall off the face of the earth now.


I am pretty sure that since the earth is round and Gravity keeps us grounded, that would be impossible.


----------



## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

None of us here caused anything. 

I watched exciting competition and enjoyed it. That it turns out, after the fact, to be effected by banned substances/behaviors does not change my experience in the least. My brain does not go back and edit.

It is disappointing that their was so much illegal activity in cycling then, and now, for all I know. That these guys are so bad at managing off of the bike, not their field of expertise, should hardly be a surprise. The pointing of fingers, from a humanitarian perspective, is insult to injury. The laying of blame is really about $ and lawyers and selling media.

I won't participate in that.


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

Berkeley Mike said:


> None of us here caused anything.
> 
> I watched exciting competition and enjoyed it. That it turns out, after the fact, to be effected by banned substances/behaviors does not change my experience in the least. My brain does not go back and edit.
> 
> ...


well said, mike. all joking aside, "disappointed" pretty much sums up how i really feel.


----------



## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

all lance posts in passion merged.


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

kjlued said:


> And yet you call me a troll.
> 
> You want me to GTFO yet you keep replying to me to see my next post.
> 
> ...


We've all read your lame, tired argument and have responded and explained with facts why you are completely wrong in your rationalization. You then claimed several times that this isn't worth arguing over and you were done. Yet you aren't.

Counter-troll is different.


----------



## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

Sorry Dell - pic didn't post. I was in a hurry


----------



## onbelaydave (May 10, 2006)

"If" the guy did dope during all of those years of TDF wins, with 100's of tests, why didn't he ever turn up positive ??????????????

There must be collusion on a grand scale between the testing booth and the lab about whose samples are really anonymous, or a provider in the know that is so far ahead of the curve that the enhancers can't be detected even from old samples.

If he really did dope, and still came out clean on all of those tests, the best thing he could do would be to name the providers.

In any event, it was a level playing field, he won 7 TDF.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

osokolo said:


> someone pissed in your coffee? let them speak their mind... c'mon delll. it is internets.


well, it's out of context now

get me a beer!
(I'll get you one too  )


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

rockcrusher said:


> all lance posts in passion merged.


well, that should make everything nice and concise! DERP


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

there is only one pure game and no it's not chess.... the only game is the game of Wold Series of Poker.. because if you are caught cheating you just might get shot or buried somewhere in the Navada desert .... after being shot or beaten with baseball bats. it's true, i saw that $h!t on the movie Casino


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

Still got the shovel:thumbsup:


----------



## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

xcguy said:


> I truly don't understand the vitriol aimed at Lance...even if he did dope...along with everyone else...it was a level playing field and he was just a part of it. It's like some cathartic mob mentality that needs to bring down some public person.
> 
> I don't feel betrayed by Lance's "confession", I feel betrayed by the sanctimonious holier-than-thou attitude of the condemners. My opinion of Lance has not diminished one iota through all of this. It was high before, it's high now. **** the naysayers.


You have absolutely no idea on what went on, I am having a hard time believing that a person could be so arrogant as yourself. You have no idea about the bullying, lying, frauding, spilling the beans on those who wanted to out him, the cover ups, the corruption and all the other stuff that I can't be bothered to mention. This isnt about drugs, everyone knows he doped on day one. I am guessing you have not watched the world according to lance and/or the oprah interview, if you did you wouldn't spray such ridiculous comments. That's why there is a keen interest behind LA, not because of the doping, but for everything else.
All this info is out there, but you choose arrogance, amazing!!
BTW...it was never a level playing field, you are regurgitating false information, which is not cool.


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

it's comical, the words on the big bad computer screen are hurting SV11's feelings. must be caused by being stuck in his house for so long out of fear of not trusting others( bike theft thread) which is why he hasn't serviced his front forks for over 5 years (DVO suspension thread). got nothing better to do then watch tv i guess


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

onbelaydave said:


> "If" the guy did dope during all of those years of TDF wins, with 100's of tests, why didn't he ever turn up positive ??????????????
> 
> There must be collusion on a grand scale between the testing booth and the lab about whose samples are really anonymous, or a provider in the know that is so far ahead of the curve that the enhancers can't be detected even from old samples.
> 
> ...


Yep. There was a collusion.

You must start paying attention to details if you want to figure it out. Unfortunately, I don't think you can say Lance won those tours. Any more. That is one sad story.


----------



## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

shwinn8 said:


> it's comical, the words on the big bad computer screen are hurting SV11's feelings. must be caused by being stuck in his house for so long out of fear of not trusting others( bike theft thread) which is why he hasn't servicing his front forks for over 5 years (DVO suspension thread). got nothing better to do then watch tv i guess


What the hell are you on about, unresolved issues? Hurt feelings, what are you on dude? You seem to be hanging on to my posts, does my comments affect you that much, hence why you have to bring it up.
How about staying on topic and not worrying how long my forks have gone without a farkn service!!
LA's fans are starting to show their true colors, it's absolutely pathetic.


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

maybe you should go back and read my comments on what really matters about the whole situation and no, your words won't make me loose any sleep. As stated, it's just comical to me. ..


----------



## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

shwinn8 said:


> maybe you should go back and read my comments on what really matters about the whole situation and no, your words won't make me loose any sleep. As stated, it's just comical to me. ..


Are you seriously on drugs? Read your comments?...what the hell are you on about? What is with you, are you looking for a confrontation?
Lets not forget one important factor, YOU BOUGHT THIS SHYT UP!!!


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

the important factor is the lives saved and lives improved by the money taken in over the past 10 years. Prove me wrong


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

and the only drug I'm on is alcohol which is completely legal in the confines of my warm home.


----------



## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

My apoligies to the mods for going OT.


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

it's a fine line between morals and ethics.... NO, I DO NOT SUPPORT HIS ETHICS. I do support the morals raising money for helping those who suffer from medial situations such as those with cancer which I hope NO ONE has to endure. I know friends who have had and have cancer. It's a GOOD thing a foundation such as Live Strong is around with the financial backing to help those who need it.


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

"after being shot or beaten with baseball bats. it's true, i saw that $h!t on the movie Casino"

which is loosely based on a true story:

Anthony Spilotro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_"It is suspected that Spilotro and his brother Michael were called by Samuel Carlisi to a meeting at a hunting lodge owned by Spilotro's former mob boss, Joey Aiuppa. Original reports stated the Spilotros were savagely beaten and buried alive in a cornfield in Enos, Indiana. They were identified by their brother Pasquale, Jr. through dental x-ray records. However, in 2007, mob assassin Nicholas Calabrese testified at the "Operation Family Secrets" trial in Chicago that the brothers were killed in a Bensenville, Illinois, basement where the Spilotros believed Michael would be inducted into The Outfit. According to court testimony, when Tony entered the basement and realized what was about to occur, he asked if he could "say a prayer".

An autopsy performed on the recovered bodies allegedly found sand in the brothers' lungs, leading FBI examiners to speculate that they had been buried alive. Subsequent testimony proved they were killed in a basement and their bodies later dumped in a grave."_

your tidbit of cosa nostra history for the evening. cheers!


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

now that's more off topic then what my comment was based off of


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

onbelaydave said:


> "If" the guy did dope during all of those years of TDF wins, with 100's of tests, why didn't he ever turn up positive ??????????????


try less than 130 tests with 8 of them dirty. one which mysteriously went away after LA made a 6 figure "donation" to the UCI for drug testing equipment (of all things).



onbelaydave said:


> In any event, it was a level playing field, he won 7 TDF.


aside from the fact that he has not won one (let alone seven) as those titles were stripped from him meaning he was effectively disqualified from the race for cheating, and aside from the fact that during those years there is no official winner, it should be noted that not even lance claims those victories anymore.

not even lance. let that sink in....


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

monogod said:


> try less than 130 tests with 8 of them dirty. one which mysteriously went away after LA made a 6 figure "donation" to the UCI for drug testing equipment (of all things).
> 
> aside from the fact that he has not won one (let alone seven) as those titles were stripped from him meaning he was effectively disqualified from the race for cheating, and aside from the fact that during those years there is no official winner, it should be noted that not even lance claims those victories anymore.
> 
> not even lance. let that sink in....


don't forget about this:

Former USADA chief says Armstrong rep made offer - CBSSports.com


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

shwinn8 said:


> the important factor is the lives saved and lives improved by the money taken in over the past 10 years. Prove me wrong


mr. schwinn, being at the helm and /or the board of directors of a cancer awareness foundation does not give one license to lie, cheat and level threats at those who would expose your lying and cheating...no more that it gave the fictional soprano family legitimacy via their donations to the feast of st elezar...


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

shekky said:


> don't forget about this:
> 
> Former USADA chief says Armstrong rep made offer - CBSSports.com


linky

:thumbsup:


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

shwinn8 said:


> the important factor is the lives saved and lives improved by the money taken in over the past 10 years. Prove me wrong


No need to prove you wrong, because you can't prove that he didn't create/direct Livestrong as a diversion to draw attention away from the troubled road he has, and continues to cycle down.

How far is it to hell, anyway :devil:


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

shwinn8 said:


> it's a fine line between morals and ethics.... NO, I DO NOT SUPPORT HIS ETHICS. I do support the morals raising money for helping those who suffer from medial situations such as those with cancer which I hope NO ONE has to endure. I know friends who have had and have cancer. It's a GOOD thing a foundation such as Live Strong is around with the financial backing to help those who need it.


See previous ... He might be much worse than you think, and you can't prove the suspicion is unfounded.


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

shekky said:


> mr. schwinn, being at the helm and /or the board of directors of a cancer awareness foundation does not give one license to lie, cheat and level threats at those who would expose your lying and cheating...no more that it gave the fictional soprano family legitimacy via their donations to the feast of st elezar..


so the money taken in by those threats didn't have a potential impact on those who needed help not given by insurance companies or other outside sources? I would like to bet if you or anyone else for that matter's child was ill and suffering they would do anything and it would take help from anyone to help ease their pain regardless of how or where the money came from. you are right and I'm not debating the fact that he lied. I DO NOT SUPPORT HIS LACK OF INTEGRITY.. what I DO support is the helping of those in need which the foundation he crated has done and I'm sure will continue to do... HELP SAVE LIVES and IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF LIFE of those suffering from cancer. Everyone a$$hole has their opinion, i just happen to focus on the aspect that helps people


----------



## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

It's pretty much indisputable that Lance was the biggest cheat in the sport that apparently has more cheaters than clean players, but that's only the tip of the iceberg in this story. 

The rest centers on what passes for "character" in Lance.... all carefully staged, prefabbed, phony as a three dollar bill. 

Lance is the epitomy of what a true sociopath can accomplish in pro cycling.....no real remorse at the many lives he destroyed to cover up his cheating. Now he is gonna hide behind his cancer kids....how brave is that.

I don't think that half-assed, pseudo-apology to Oprah, who BTW, has no skin at all in the pro cycling game, is quite gonna cut it. 
Nope, Lance has got KARMA comin' his way....and who knows whether it will arrive in the form of a Greyhound bus when he's on a training ride, or an ominous new spot on an upcoming routine x-ray, but he's got some heavy sh*t due. He's deliberately wrecked a lot of lives through slander, bullying, and many other slimy tactics. Something's gotta give.


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

"so the money taken in by those threats"

dude, read and think about what you're typing.

now you're unwittingly accusing lance of extortion.

however, i get your point. the foundation's goal was to raise awareness of cancer, which is a good thing. yes, sometimes bad people do good things. i do not believe that lance is wholly evil; rather, i think he got caught up in a behavioral cesspool he could not climb out of. however, it was his choice to leap into this cash-lined slime pit and now he is paying the price.

it is painful and disappointing thing to watch.

btw, i lost my older brother in 1999 to two different kinds cancer and my older sister is a survivor.


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

> *O'Reilly willing to meet Armstrong*
> SNIP
> 
> In an interview with the Daily Mail, O'Reilly said: "Lance responded to my accusations that he was a drug cheat by branding me *a prostitute and an alcoholic*.
> ...


Character


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

shwinn8 said:


> the important factor is the lives saved and lives improved by the money taken in over the past 10 years. Prove me wrong


lives saved? how exactly? they don't contribute funds to cancer curing research. the mission of livestrong is cancer awareness, as if there are still people in the civilized world who don't know that cancer sucks.

livestrong's CEO stated point blank that _"Most organizations are about the disease. They're about trying to solve a disease, and we are about trying to im*prove the lives of people that are battling the disease._"

livestrong spends HUGE amounts of donated funds on promotion, PR, and branding. money that could, and should, be going to "cancer awareness" and "improving the lives of people".

lance has used livestrong to promote sympathy for himself and portray himself as a man of honor and integrity in order to deflect cheating/doping/lying allegations; a tactic that clearly works judging by how many people play the "livestrong card" like some sort of ace in the hole when defending him. your post as perfect example.

lance has incessantly used livestrong to rake in millions upon millions of dollars through speaking and appearance fees and doing rides on behalf of livestrong -- however the money always goes into HIS pocket instead of to the charity.

lance threatened to use the livestrong database against john kerry in 2008 if obama didn't attend one of his functions. a violation of 501(c)(3), which prohibits tax-exempt organizations from wielding political influence. they should have lost their status after that little stunt, but for some reason didn't.

i've lost very dear family members to cancer, but i wouldn't give livestrong a single cent. has nothing to do with LA whatsoever -- but rather because they do literally NOTHING to promote research. i already know cancer sucks and i don't need to make lance richer to demonstrate this knowledge -- especially when cancer has been being cured for over a century through holistic methods. query: why doesn't livestrong promote this knowledge???

hmmmmm........ :skep:


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Complete lack of


bikeabuser said:


> Character


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

monogod said:


> lives saved? how exactly? they don't contribute funds to cancer curing research. the mission of livestrong is cancer awareness, as if there are still people in the civilized world who don't know that cancer sucks.
> 
> livestrong's CEO stated point blank that _"Most organizations are about the disease. They're about trying to solve a disease, and we are about trying to im*prove the lives of people that are battling the disease._"
> 
> ...


I agree with most of your post, but this has me questioning your final assessment.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

whodaphuck said:


> I agree with most of your post, but this has me questioning your final assessment.


they'd lose millions if they acknowledged it. this statement by the american cancer society on that page is an outright lie: "_Available scientific evidence does not support claims that holistic medicine, when used without mainstream or conventional medicine, is effective in treating cancer or any other disease._"

if one is alive 5 years +1 day after diagnosis of cancer they are considered to be cured. the patient can die the next day of cancer, but they are still considered cured. why? because when a diagnosis of cancer is changed to "cured" it will pad statistics which in turn lines the pockets of charities like the ACS as well as doctors and surgical and radiation "cures". no other disease is classified this way... only cancer.

the ugly truth is that the medical field is not about prevention it's about treatment. there's little to no money in prevention and/or holistic medicine approaches. conversely there's huge amounts of profit in fear mongering, surgical/radiological treatment, and pharmacology. in fact, the AMA was started to quash homeopathy and steer medicine to a treatment/pharmacological based modality as well as giving them legal power to retaliate against those who "stepped outside their box".

cancer being cured holistically has been very well documented for over 100 years. some good primers would be "the beautiful truth", "forks over knives", and "eating 3.0 (aks R.A.V.E. diet)"


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

kjlued said:


> I love how you like to try and ad words and twist what I say to try and accomplish what is obviously a personal vendetta against me.
> 
> I never said I was done, I said I was done arguing.
> I suppose though in your feeble little mind if anyone has an opinion that differs from yours, they are arguing.
> ...


I think he's still here...


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

rockerc said:


> I think he's still here...


I am sure he is.

But when somebody says "unsubscribed" that is usually their dramatic way of saying that is their last post and they won't be back.


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

monogod said:


> they'd lose millions if they acknowledged it. this statement by the american cancer society on that page is an outright lie: "_Available scientific evidence does not support claims that holistic medicine, when used without mainstream or conventional medicine, is effective in treating cancer or any other disease._"
> 
> if one is alive 5 years +1 day after diagnosis of cancer they are considered to be cured. the patient can die the next day of cancer, but they are still considered cured. why? because when a diagnosis of cancer is changed to "cured" it will pad statistics which in turn lines the pockets of charities like the ACS as well as doctors and surgical and radiation "cures". no other disease is classified this way... only cancer.
> 
> ...


Thanks Monogod, you make some great points, and I heartily agree with what you are saying. I think that 'conventional' western medicine does have a lot going for it however, and we would be wise to not write it off. In conjunction with holistic methods, and in conjunction with sympathetic care there is little that cannot be completely cured. Greed and the need to 'perform' in all the wrong ways has led us astray in both the fields of medicine, and in pro sports!


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

onbelaydave said:


> "If" the guy did dope during all of those years of TDF wins, with 100's of tests, why didn't he ever turn up positive ??????????????
> 
> There must be collusion on a grand scale between the testing booth and the lab about whose samples are really anonymous, or a provider in the know that is so far ahead of the curve that the enhancers can't be detected even from old samples.
> 
> ...


Doping is predominant in sports and apparently only taken seriously in Cycling, is it because cyclists are so disliked? or is it because Americans smashed the Euros who whined like crazy because they could not cheat as good as our boys (not saying its a good thing but it is what happened). 
Regardless it is there and obviously many fly under the radar sometimes being caught, but more often getting away with it and many are still celebrated.
Now since we know how Lance was so successful that knowledge is also on the street so it can further be refined, not sure what the anti doping agency thought they would gain from this but they made it even harder to detect and only their gestapo techniques on a select few athletes who compete on a world stage will we ever find out and then it is only "accusations" and hell coerced confessions. 
Really the entire thing is a shame, but I would like to know where is the friggin outrage on the USPS paying tens of millions of dollars for advertisement? Will that make people want to mail more envelopes? what a joke. 
More should also be looked into companies paying athletes bloated some of money meanwhile they operate sweatshops, how friggin shameful, where is the outrage ?


----------



## nuffink (Feb 21, 2010)

Blurr said:


> ... or is it because Americans smashed the Euros who whined like crazy because they could not cheat as good as our boys


Yeah, that was it. When it comes to cheating you boys are in a league of your own.


----------



## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

I'm going to pop in here and just remind everyone that discourse is fine, but name calling and childish behavior will get the thread locked and possibly other actions implemented. 

Play nice.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

nuffink said:


> Yeah, that was it. When it comes to cheating you boys are in a league of your own.


Not even close, we learned from the best  
Doping at the Tour de France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Fishbucket (Dec 4, 2012)

rockcrusher said:


> I'm going to pop in here and just remind everyone that discourse is fine, but name calling and childish behavior will get the thread locked and possibly other actions implemented.
> 
> Play nice.


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

rockcrusher said:


> I'm going to pop in here and just remind everyone that discourse is fine, but name calling and childish behavior will get the thread locked and possibly other actions implemented.
> 
> Play nice.


I wish you'd stop locking threads, and deal with the problems within the threads ... Locking a thread punishes everyone.

Implement the other actions.
Just a suggestion.


----------



## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

bikeabuser said:


> I wish you'd stop locking threads, and deal with the problems within the threads ... Locking a thread punishes everyone.
> 
> Implement the other actions.
> Just a suggestion.


Tell you what, you read through the previous 484 posts and flag the ones that don't meet MTBR guidelines, then go read the Lance thread in general and the Lance thread in OffCamber. For each one that doesn't meet the guidelines you report it and I will delete the offending post. Make sure it meets the guidelines.

That is why it is easier to close a thread than go through and delete all the response that are over the line and the quotes of that response. Oh and then there are the other 100 report posts I get every 6 hours. Simple for a volunteer because I definitely don't have anything better to do than to make sure that one of multiple threads about Lance Armstrong stays it course.


----------



## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

SV11 said:


> You have absolutely no idea on what went on, I am having a hard time believing that a person could be so arrogant as yourself. *You have no idea about the bullying, lying, frauding, spilling the beans on those who wanted to out him, the cover ups, the corruption and all the other stuff that I can't be bothered to mention.* *This isnt about drugs*, everyone knows he doped on day one. I am guessing you have not watched the world according to lance and/or the oprah interview, if you did you wouldn't spray such ridiculous comments. That's why there is a keen interest behind LA, not because of the doping, but for everything else.
> All this info is out there, but you choose arrogance, amazing!!
> BTW...it was never a level playing field, you are regurgitating false information, which is not cool.


Spot on. Unfortunately the little brains will never understand what you're getting at...they'll just continue to go on about "it was a level playing field"...completely ignoring the lives/careers/friendships he steam rolled all the while professing to these same little brains that he was clean...


----------



## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

shwinn8 said:


> the important factor is the lives saved and lives improved by the money taken in over the past 10 years. Prove me wrong


I believe he also commited several felonies along the way (fraud/perjury/etc.)...so with your logic it's okay to rob banks and jack 7/11's as long as you give away the money. How logical...

And considering his lack on any morals/ethics/hell...feelings...I'm sure he funneled plenty of that money into his own bank account...


----------



## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

People racing on bicycles isn't important to me, but I also think the NFL and other professional sports are way overblown in our society, so I know I'm in the minority here. I ride for fun and exercize and sense of community and it is good for my soul and I really don't care what Lance Armstrong did or didn't do. It doesn't matter. If I was a stakeholder in the related issues, maybe I'd feel differently, but I'm not and I don't. Instead, I'm headed out for a ride right now and I can tell you, I won't be thinking about Lance Armstrong or all the handwringing that is going on about this.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

Blurr said:


> Doping is predominant in sports and apparently only taken seriously in Cycling, is it because cyclists are so disliked? or is it because Americans smashed the Euros who whined like crazy because they could not cheat as good as our boys (not saying its a good thing but it is what happened).


i would not even say it the way you said it - like you are proud of "your boys" for outcheating every one else. i guess you could say "your boys" are the best cheaters too.

i also would not brag about american wins at the tour. the win percentage is ridiculously skewed against americans...

just sayin'...

other than that - how is life Blurr? still generally pissed at the government?


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

kjlued said:


> I am sure he is.
> 
> But when somebody says "unsubscribed" that is usually their dramatic way of saying that is their last post and they won't be back.


and when you call someone else a retard - you tell so much about yourself. don't you?

so now that LA admitted - are you ok with dropping your assessment of "he probably did" and replace it with "he definitely did"?


----------



## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

sho220 said:


> I believe he also commit*t*ed several felonies along the way (fraud/perjury/etc.)...so with your logic it's okay to rob banks and jack 7/11's as long as you give away the money. How logical...
> 
> And considering his lack on any morals/ethics/hell...feelings...I'm sure he funneled plenty of that money into his own bank account...


Copy, you don't agree that lives were saved and quality of life improved


----------



## zeppy (May 21, 2011)

nuffink said:


> Yeah, that was it. When it comes to cheating you boys are in a league of your own.


USA! USA! USA! :thumbsup:

That's all I'm going to say in this thread. Carry on.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

highdelll said:


> well, it's out of context now
> 
> get me a beer!
> (I'll get you one too  )


beer heals everything... cheers... :thumbsup:


----------



## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

shwinn8 said:


> the important factor is the lives saved and lives improved by the money taken in over the past 10 years. Prove me wrong


Lives were saved? Excellent. Point me to examples. This is new information to me. Excited to learn something new.

Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.


----------



## Whore (Jan 20, 2013)

Who the hell is Lance Armstrong? But seriously dude did not become one of the best cycling athletes we have ever seen just from/because of doping it still take massive Training,Dedication and Time. Doping did not make him but did helped.


----------



## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

Whore said:


> Who the hell is Lance Armstrong?


Some Greg LeMond wanna be

Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.


----------



## Whore (Jan 20, 2013)

Ken in KC said:


> Some Greg LeMond wanna be


Ahh the '80's..He was the guy who did that thing that one time on that wheely thing right?


----------



## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

Whore said:


> Ahh the '80's..He was the guy who did that thing that one time right?


Yep. That's the guy.

Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.


----------



## Whore (Jan 20, 2013)

Ken in KC said:


> Yep. That's the guy.
> 
> Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.


Glad we could clear that up.


----------



## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

Whore said:


> Who the hell is Lance Armstrong? But seriously dude did not become one of the best cycling athletes we have ever seen just from/because of doping it still take massive Training,Dedication and Time. Doping did not make him but did helped.


You do realise that LA has been doping his entire career and lying about it for nearly 20 years now. He was never one of the best cycling athletes, far from it. Using the words "one of the best cycling athletes" and "doping" in the same sentence is flat out arrogance, there is no other word for it. If doping helped him out, that means doping made him, otherwise why would you need to dope up? Without dope he is just another rider. He doesn't have what it takes to win without doping.


----------



## Whore (Jan 20, 2013)

SV11 said:


> If doping helped him out, that means doping made him, otherwise why would you need to dope up? Without dope he is just another rider.


 No it doesn't and Since he has been doping for his whole career you do not really know if with out it he is "just another rider" anyhow which i highly doubt.


----------



## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

Whore said:


> No it doesn't and Since he has been doping for his whole career you do not really know if with out it he is "just another rider" anyhow which i highly doubt.


wow, just wow.....


----------



## Whore (Jan 20, 2013)

SV11 said:


> wow, just wow.....


I am appalled that you are let down that sadly doping is prevalent in all professional sports even with heavy testing. So to that end i really do not care what lance Armstrong did. Would he have won at the Olympics without doping? Quite possibly....Would he have won all 7 tours probably not...1or 2 i give the nod to doable.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

Whore said:


> Glad we could clear that up.


you can start dating now. :thumbsup:

LeMond wannabe.. i like that...


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Whore said:


> But seriously dude did not become one of the best cycling athletes we have ever seen just from/because of doping it still take massive Training,Dedication and Time. Doping did not make him but did helped.


before doping: a mediocre performing pack filler who never finished a tour.
after doping: 7 successive wins.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

Whore said:


> I am appalled that you are let down that sadly doping is prevalent in all professional sports even with heavy testing. So to that end i really do not care what lance Armstrong did. Would he have won at the Olympics without doping? Quite possibly....Would he have won all 7 tours probably not...1or 2 i give the nod to doable.


i think that without doping, he would still be better than me.

he would not win the TdF without doping, based on his previous results.

he would not win the Olympics, based on his previous results.

but he would beat me. so i almost agree with you. or not.


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

osokolo said:


> and when you call someone else a retard - you tell so much about yourself. don't you?


No, just everyone that disagrees with my opinion.

I mean after all that is what all the anti Lance people obviously think so I may as well join that train of though.


----------



## MTK (Feb 18, 2004)

*Word.*

 I have been reading all your thought's about Lance. I saw the interview
with Oprah. I have been a Huge Fan of Lance. Though my favorite is Hincappie{sp?]
I remember working for Specialized in 20005/06 just getting Laughed at by the Boy's.
I was defending him,I was hoping it was not true? Greg did it? No? Yes, it was only
3,but tome that is off the chart in term's of pure Hate. So mabye Lance could do it?
I will leave with this for tonight. Can you all give me your thought's on Greg Lemond?
I read about some nasty stuff between the two. Will Trek take down that Huge picture of Lance and put one of Greg up?  So Greg is USA's greatest roadie right? Word,I'm
out.

MTK


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

kjlued said:


> No, just everyone that disagrees with my opinion.
> 
> I mean after all that is what all the anti Lance people obviously think so I may as well join that train of though.


that would indeed bring a kumbaya closure to this thread.


----------



## Wild Wassa (Jun 4, 2009)

If I was Lance's legal counsel, I would be suggesting that he immediately moves to Spain.

Then offer-up to the Spanish Authorities, 68 US riders, several lazy UCI officials and a hand-full of dodgy medical staff involved with doping, then quote a little known precedent concerning Dr Eufemiano Fuentes and Operación Puerto and some creepy guy called El Pistolero.
.
Lance then could have his *death sentence* back-dated to his last _positive_ drug test ... or even to his first _positive_ drug bust. He then, could be back racing, within a week or two.

An important historic precedent that should also be cited is ... _The acceptance of drug-taking in the Tour de France was so complete by 1930 that the rule book, distributed by Henri Desgrange, reminded riders that drugs would not be provided by the organisers._

If Lance wanted to get back in the fan's good books, he should haul Honey Boo Boo around the Pyrenees on training rides. Lance and Honey Boo Boo in the Pyrenees, could be a big winner on Oprah's Histrionics Channel. I find that cosy fire side chats, just don't do it for me.

Warren.

PS, If anyone close to Lance needs further advice? ... email Alberto Contradoper El Pistolero.


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Allegations of doping has been in the TDF apparently since its beginning,

What is even funnier is at one point alcohol was considered doping.
Yet, beer seems to be a very acceptable part of biking today :lol:

Doping at the Tour de France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Towards the bottom there is a list of riders caught doping. 
The list thins out towards more recent years, but were they clean or not just caught?
For that matter were the rest of the riders in more previous year clean or just not caught?

Look at the top 10 riders in the years that LA won. Every year, 7-9 of the top 10 riders had at least the suspicion of of doping. Remember, until now, LA also just had the suspicion of doping. So all those not on the doper list could be added at any time but most likely won't since they are not on top.


----------



## edley (Dec 8, 2006)

wild wassa said:


> if i was lance's legal counsel, i would be suggesting that he immediately moves to spain.
> 
> Then offer-up to the spanish authorities, 68 us riders, several lazy uci officials and a hand-full of dodgy medical staff involved with doping, then quote a little known precedent concerning dr eufemiano fuentes and operación puerto and some creepy guy called el pistolero.
> .
> ...


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

kjlued said:


> Allegations of doping has been in the TDF apparently since its beginning


it was not prohibited until 1963. therein lies the difference.

before 1963 it was not illegal or prohibited to dope.

after 1963 it was against the rules (i.e. prohibited) to dope.

see the difference?



kjlued said:


> _~pro-doping tripe snipped~_


yeah, we get it. you're ok with what lance did. what's with your obsession to rub everyone's nose in it?



kjlued said:


> Remember, until now, LA also just had the suspicion of doping.


wrong. he failed 8 drug tests. that's called "substantiation" not "suspicion". :thumbsup:

the irony is apparent to most, if not all, of us that you rag on the english skills and reading comprehension of others yet consistently struggle with the basics yourself...


----------



## legking (Dec 8, 2012)

Blah, blah, blah.

Most of you aren't worthy of even sniffing Lances' compression shorts.

All this holier than thou stuff - SHUT UP!!


----------



## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

legking said:


> Blah, blah, blah.
> 
> Most of you aren't worthy of even sniffing Lances' compression shorts.
> 
> All this holier than thou stuff - SHUT UP!!


You are back and this is the best you can do? I'm going to give you a good piece of advice: Take a step back from the keyboard, it's only the internet. Post some content about mountain biking. Do so in a tone that isn't confrontational. Stay unbanned.


----------



## Mtn-Rider (May 21, 2010)

rockcrusher said:


> all lance posts in passion merged.


Passion is still non-fiction, they really need to go under cycling fiction.

Library prank sends Armstrong books to fiction section - Yahoo! News


----------



## Roadsters (Jul 7, 2008)

Maplewood Bicycle posted this on their Facebook page:


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

Roadsters said:


> Maplewood Bicycle posted this on their Facebook page:


That's Awesome !!!


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

monogod said:


> ~anti-doping tripe snipped~


yeah, we get it. you're not ok with what lance did. what's with your obsession to rub everyone's nose in it?

You see what I did there?

You keep posting your anti LA stuff and it is ok. 
But if somebody posts anything that remotely goes against that then they have an obsession to rub eveyone's nose it. That is just ridiculous. 

Maybe we should just have two LA threads. 
One for everyone that thinks he worse than Hitler, child molesters, rapists and murders. 
Another for those that simply just understand why he did it and played the same game all the other top cyclists were playing. That way, there wouldn't be any "nose rubbing". :thumbsup:


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

bikeabuser said:


> That's Awesome !!!


I agree, that picture is Awesome!!!


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

kjlued;10092411
said:


> Maybe we should just have two LA threads.


None would be better, then there would be zero sh!ts given.


----------



## Moustache rider (Jun 1, 2007)

Hah!
Go to livestrong.com and try _Lance Armstrong_ in the search box.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

kjlued said:


> yeah, we get it. you're not ok with what lance did. what's with your obsession to rub everyone's nose in it?
> 
> You see what I did there?
> 
> ...


yeah, i see what you did there. you tried to make it look like having a problem with sociopathic antisocial personality disorder behavior is uncool, questionable, and socially unacceptable.

lance is a blatant sociopath with antisocial personality disorder. APD affects only 3% of males and 1% of females. thus, 3% of the male population would see nothing wrong with what he did and would sympathize, rationalize, justify, and minimalize his behavior while the other 97% of males (and 99% of females) in this world find his behavior (along with any defense of that behavior) repugnant, immoral, and offensive.

so clearly the mindset of decrying sociopathic, felonious, abhorrent character/behavior places those who engage in it in the 97% of above mentioned males while your obsession of minimalizing, rationalizing, and justifying it places you in the other 3%.

get it now? :thumbsup:


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

and 87% of statistics are made up on the spot. lol

Seriously, you get nothing of what I have said the whole time. 
I have only said I UNDERSTAND why he did what he did. 
I never said I feel sorry for the guy and I have even said just because I UNDERSTAND what he did that I didn't think it was OK yet some people would think that I am rationalizing his actions. 

That being said, I don't think he he is a complete scum because of his actions. I just think he is a guy who made a wrong decision, got caught in a lie and tried to lie his way out as so many TDF riders have in the past. People will tell you he has no remorse. Maybe so, but I choose not to judge people. That being said, I doubt any of the other TDF riders who got caught had any real remorse either. They just fessed up when they felt they could no longer lie their way out (Lance just carried the lie on longer). Then in return for a lesser sentence they turned in other people for doping. Don't you think that if they really had remorse, they would have done that and not taken a lesser sentence?

If somebody truly had remorse for their actions, would they have not turned themselves in prior to being accused? I am not going to go back and loo up the names, but it only appears that two riders ever did that. 

Now, if LA is truly has APD then should we really hate him or actually have a little sympathy and hope he gets treatment for his problem?

You can attack my character all you want, it really does not bother me as I know who I am and what I stand for. I realize that nobody is perfect, everyone makes mistakes and most people usually deserve a second chance unless maybe their crimes were extremely grievous. If you consider cheating in the TDF to be an extremely grievous crime, then their is something seriously wrong with you.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

kjlued said:


> and 87% of statistics are made up on the spot. lol


the DSM-IV is not book of made-up statistics. 

APD affects 3% of males. linky



kjlued said:


> That being said, I don't think he he is a complete scum because of his actions.


unlike most people who DO think that felonious, lying, cheating, bullying sociopaths ARE complete scum.

starting to make sense now?



kjlued said:


> You can attack my character all you want, it really does not bother me as I know who I am and what I stand for.


it's not a personal attack on a duck to call it a duck when it looks, walks, and quacks like a duck.



kjlued said:


> I realize that nobody is perfect, everyone makes mistakes and most people usually deserve a second chance unless maybe their crimes were extremely grievous.


no one has stated, implied, nor could any reasonably sane person infer that calling "wrong" by its rightful name is synonymous with a claim of personal infallibility. whether by myself or others.

do you think what LA did was extremely grievous? yes or no?



kjlued said:


> If you consider cheating in the TDF to be an extremely grievous crime, then their is something seriously wrong with you.


if you do not consider over a decade of lying, cheating, blackmailing, retaliation, lawsuits, ruining the lives/credibility/careers of people, destroying people financially out of spite, purjery, being part of organized crime activity, contractual fraud, and intimidation to be extremely grievous crimes then there is something seriously wrong with you.

checkmate.


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

monogod said:


> checkmate.


There is no "checkmate" because that would be assuming you can win and you can't
Not saying I can either. 
We are just two people with different opinions on the how bad what he did is and we will never agree.

So instead of checkmate, it is stalemate.



monogod said:


> if you do not consider over a decade of lying, cheating, blackmailing, retaliation, lawsuits, ruining the lives/credibility/careers of people, destroying people financially out of spite, purjery, being part of organized crime activity, contractual fraud, and intimidation to be extremely grievous crimes then there is something seriously wrong with you.


Welcome to our federal government. Sad thing is, some people seem to be more disgusted about what some guy did in a race that has zero effect on our lives then they are at our own federal government.

Maybe the guy that LA for President several posts back had a good ideal after all.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

kjlued said:


>


i asked you a simple and profoundly straightforward "yes or no" question.

do you think lance's actions are extremely grievous?


----------



## shamrok (Aug 2, 2012)

I just know I'm glad they put Lance's face all over honey stinger waffles. Then they have to burn their stock for cheap (16pack for 11.95) yay!


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

monogod said:


> i asked you a simple and profoundly straightforward "yes or no" question.
> 
> do you think lance's actions are extremely grievous?


Well, I have asked you very simple and profoundly straight forward questions way earlier in this thread but yet you never answered it.

I prefer salmon by the way.

I think it is pretty obvious what my answer is but I will spell it out for.

I consider what Adolf Hitler to have done to be extremely grievous. 
Charles Manson was extremely grievous. 
Al-Qaeda have committed extremely acts
The numb nuts who killed all the children in Sandy Hooks committed an extremely grievous act. 
People that rape, molest children, murder other people commit extremely grievous acts.

Cheating in the TDF and being a jerk is not extremely grievous and if you feel it is then you priorities in life need some readjusting.


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

BTW, since we are asking simple and direct questions and I answered yours. 

I have a simple and direct question for you....actually a 4 questions. 

Have you ever lied?
Have you ever cheated?
Did you always show true remorse for those actions?
Is there anything lies or cheats that you have never fessed up to?


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

Moustache rider said:


> Hah!
> Go to livestrong.com and try _Lance Armstrong_ in the search box.


LIVESTRONG Search Results
*We're sorry, but no results matched your search. Please search again.*
That's beyond AWESOME :lol:


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

monogod said:


> kjlued said:
> 
> 
> > If you consider cheating in the TDF to be an extremely grievous crime, then their is something seriously wrong with you.
> ...


*griev·ous*
2. flagrant; outrageous; atrocious: _a grievous offense against morality._


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

monogod said:


> i asked you a simple and profoundly straightforward "yes or no" question.
> 
> do you think lance's actions are extremely grievous?
> 
> ...


wow... i ask a simple yes or no question and get the above blathering, obfuscation, and avoidance in response. :madman:

let's try once more...

do you consider a decade plus of lying (including to his own children), cheating, blackmailing, retaliation, groundless lawsuits, intentionally ruining the lives/credibility/careers of people, destroying people financially out of spite, bribery to cover up failed drug tests and silence people, numerous counts of perjury, being part of organized crime activity, contractual fraud, and intimidation to be extremely grievous actions?

yes or no?


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

monogod said:


> wow... i ask a simple yes or no question and get the above blathering, obfuscation, and avoidance in response. :madman:


Are you really too dumb to see my answer on that? 
I mean seriously, are you that dumb?

At least I gave you a response but yet once again you don't even attempt to answer my simple questions.

Talk about read herring. 



monogod said:


> do you consider a decade plus of lying (including to his own children), cheating, blackmailing, retaliation, groundless lawsuits, intentionally ruining the lives/credibility/careers of people, destroying people financially out of spite, bribery to cover up failed drug tests and silence people, numerous counts of perjury, being part of organized crime activity, contractual fraud, and intimidation to be extremely grievous actions?


Oh, and quit over dramatizing because you are really starting to sound like a drama queen.


----------



## Fishbucket (Dec 4, 2012)

you guys are going to need a room...soon.


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Fishbucket said:


> you guys are going to need a room...soon.


Can we use yours?


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

kjlued said:


> Are you really too dumb to see my answer on that?
> I mean seriously, are you that dumb?


the irony of you calling someone dumb while being incapable of typing either "yes" or "no" to a point blank question is not lost on anyone.



monogod said:


> do you consider a decade plus of lying (including to his own children), cheating, blackmailing, retaliation, groundless lawsuits, intentionally ruining the lives/credibility/careers of people, destroying people financially out of spite, bribery to cover up failed drug tests and silence people, numerous counts of perjury, being part of organized crime activity, contractual fraud, and intimidation to be extremely grievous actions?
> 
> yes or no?
> 
> ...


refusal to acknowledge the facts on your part does not constitute over-dramatization on my part by recounting them.

the question stands...


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

monogod said:


> do you consider a decade plus of lying (including to his own children), cheating, blackmailing, retaliation, groundless lawsuits, intentionally ruining the lives/credibility/careers of people, destroying people financially out of spite, bribery to cover up failed drug tests and silence people, numerous counts of perjury, being part of organized crime activity, contractual fraud, and intimidation to be extremely grievous actions?
> 
> yes or no?


I'll take YES THIS DESCRIBES LANCE ARMSTRONG for $1000, Alex


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

monogod said:


> the irony of you calling someone dumb while being incapable of typing either "yes" or "no" to a point blank question is not lost on anyone.
> 
> refusal to acknowledge the facts on your part does not constitute over-dramatization on my part by recounting them.
> 
> the question stands...


Ok, I will play your little game since you are too thick to figure it out on your own.

No, I do not consider his actions extremely grievous. 

Now, will you quit throwing red herrings up stop avoiding my questions.

Remember, only yes or no answers. (Your rules, not mine)


----------



## Fishbucket (Dec 4, 2012)

kjlued said:


> Can we use yours?


Sorry, I took a vote...No is the result.


----------



## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

kjlued said:


> Ok, I will play your little game since you are too thick to figure it out on your own.
> 
> No, I do not consider his actions extremely grievous.
> 
> ...


Are you LA's attorney?
You are adamant about defending a scumbag, the guy that created the biggest fraud in sporting history, what the hell is wrong with you? Don't you want to see a example set for the rest? Cyling has been pretty clean the last few years, it's called progression.
I am really trying to comprehend how an individual can sit here and defend a person who basically treats other humans like feces. You have been defending him in every LA thread like a madman, you contributed in the locking of a LA thread as well. Seriously, take a break, we know where you stand. You're not going to stop until this thread is locked as well.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

kjlued said:


> Can we use yours?


you can use mine... as long as that will make you STFU...

plus, if you relax, you may even enjoy it...

Lance got what he deserved. I wonder if they used onion fumes to make him cry... Or Oprah squeezed his nut.


----------



## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

Everyone arguing in this thread is wasting a hell of a lot of their time. I care enough about you guys to spend some of my time so that everyone can do something else. Living, breathing, spending energy; for what? It isn't worth a bowl of pinto beans. 

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Fishbucket said:


> Sorry, I took a vote...No is the result.


Well damn, that is just selfish.



SV11 said:


> Are you LA's attorney?
> You are adamant about defending a scumbag, the guy that created the biggest fraud in sporting history, what the hell is wrong with you? Don't you want to see a example set for the rest? Cyling has been pretty clean the last few years, it's called progression.
> I am really trying to comprehend how an individual can sit here and defend a person who basically treats other humans like feces. You have been defending him in every LA thread like a madman, you contributed in the locking of a LA thread as well. Seriously, take a break, we know where you stand. You're not going to stop until this thread is locked as well.


Ahh yes, if I am not with you, I am against you. 
You think he is a scumbag, I don't so I am a supporter. lol

No, I just don't think he is evil person you think he is. 
I mean seriously they way some of you talk, you would think this guy is the anti-Christ. lol

Cycling has been clean for the last few years.....that we know of. 
Regardless though, we are not talking about the last few years. 
Yes, progression is great. I hope cycling gets clean.

I have been defending every LA thread like a madman and contributed to the locking of a thread.

Well, you have been condemning LA like a madman and contributed to a thread getting locked. Maybe you should seriously take a break. I mean honestly, if you don't like what I have to say then do not reply to me or address me.....or do you secretly enjoy this useless banter?

I am not going to stop until this thread is locked? 
Maybe, but I suppose the same could be said to you. 
Yet in your feeble little mind, it will be fault and you will never see your part in it. 

I have said it before, if you don't like my responses then don't address me. But what you do, don't ***** and whine because we don't see eye to eye even though you keep address me.

I will bet you can't resist responding and then *****ing about my response again.


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

osokolo said:


> you can use mine... as long as that will make you STFU...
> 
> plus, if you relax, you may even enjoy it...
> 
> Lance got what he deserved. I wonder if they used onion fumes to make him cry... Or Oprah squeezed his nut.


Sorry, I pitch, I don't catch.

However, I bet you know a lot about relaxing so you can enjoy it.:thumbsup:

Time for you to have a nice hot cup of STFU.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

kjlued said:


> Ok, I will play your little game since you are too thick to figure it out on your own.


hmmmm.... seems to me we've had your number for quite some time, and you've gotten all butthurt when confronted with it -- going so far as to deny what was obviously true. (a page straight out of the LA playbook).

it's been suggested by many that your moral compass points to the same malignant north as LA's, something which you've vociferously and repetitively denied. something to which you've responded with name calling and attempts to discredit those who suggested it. (another page right out of the LA playbook)

but then the truth comes out...



monogod said:


> do you consider a decade plus of lying (including to his own children), cheating, blackmailing, retaliation, groundless lawsuits, intentionally ruining the lives/credibility/careers of people, destroying people financially out of spite, bribery to cover up failed drug tests and silence people, numerous counts of perjury, being part of organized crime activity, contractual fraud, and intimidation to be extremely grievous actions?
> 
> yes or no?
> 
> ...


yep... that's precisely the answer one would expect from a 3%'er. :thumbsup:


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

And yet you still can not answer a few yes or no questions. 

What are you hiding?

I am going to bed, look forward to your next red herring.:thumbsup:


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

kjlued said:


> And yet you still can not answer a few yes or no questions.
> 
> What are you hiding?
> 
> I am going to bed, look forward to your next red herring.:thumbsup:


aside from the fact you clearly have no idea what a red herring is and are merely erroneously regurgitating something you've heard, you've failed to comprehend that your questions were already answered in this post.

to wit: "_no one has stated, implied, nor could any reasonably sane person infer that calling "wrong" by its rightful name is synonymous with a claim of personal infallibility. whether by myself or others._"

seems your reading comprehension is about as developed as your sense of morality and common decency...


----------



## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

andy f said:


> I'm much more put off by the way he treated people than the dope itself. Pressuring others to dope, bending over backwards to destroy the careers and lives of those who opposed him or threatened to expose his doping are far more heinous offenses IMO.


You need to check back in at f88, Andy. There's a new sheriff in town.

Oh...and your summary above is the best post in this thread. You put it in perspective, just right.


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)




----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

rockerc said:


> Thanks Monogod, you make some great points, and I heartily agree with what you are saying. I think that 'conventional' western medicine does have a lot going for it however, and we would be wise to not write it off. In conjunction with holistic methods, and in conjunction with sympathetic care there is little that cannot be completely cured. Greed and the need to 'perform' in all the wrong ways has led us astray in both the fields of medicine, and in pro sports!


thanks for the intelligent comments and discussion, rocker. this is a topic very near and dear to me as one of my life goals is to start a health and wellness retreat to give people alternatives to western medicine.

i couldn't agree more with the last sentence in your post, but don't get me wrong bro -- i do think conventional western medicine has its place. on that i agree with you totally as well. same with pharmacology. however, imho pharmacology and surgery are used too often when holistic methods would better serve the patient.

when someone's triglycerides are high it's not because they have a shortage of Lipitor in their system, it's because of their diet/lifestyle. so why is Lipitor the general long term "solution"? why not treat the CAUSE of the problem instead of merely addressing the symptoms of it? this is my main point.

i've worked on post CABG (coronary artery bypass graft) units and they simply do not teach patients how to alter their lifestyles post CABG. the patient is set up for failure because rather than being educated on what clogged their arteries in the first place they are cut open, patched up, and sent home only to continue to diet/lifestyle that lead to the occlusions in the first place. why cut and implement long term pharmacological approaches when the patient could well have enjoyed complete reversal and unblockage solely by a commitment to lifestyle change?

are some meds a good idea during implementation of this new paradigm? especially thinners/anti-coagulants? certainly. but they should be used as stabilization methods only rather than the long term solution. they should be used only to assist in holistic measures rather than seen as the cure.

pharmacological measures in general should be used for imminent interventions only and weened off asap instead of being used as a long term crutch and/or bandaid. the amount of drugs we give in hospitals is absolutely astounding! it's not uncommon to have a patient on 10-15 routines and another 10-15 prn meds. pain meds are one thing, but non-pain related meds are quite another.

if you haven't seen the vids i mentioned previously check them out. the power of the human body to heal itself once the factors that are causing insult are removed is phenomenal! any time we can bring healing and/or a better quality of life (even during active dying) to a patient without the insults and side effects common to pharmacological/radiological it is my position that this avenue should be taken.

there's not as much money in it, but there's way more personal satisfaction and benefit to the patient.


----------



## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

I will use your words here because they never held more true than now.



monogod said:


> wow... i ask a simple yes or no question and get the above blathering, obfuscation, and avoidance in response. :madman:
> 
> let's try once more...
> 
> yes or no?


So yes, let's try this once more.

Have you ever lied?
Have you ever cheated?
Did you always show true remorse for those actions?
Are there any lies or cheats that you have never fessed up to?

yes or no?


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Please give it a rest KJ!


----------



## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

monogod said:


> thanks for the intelligent comments and discussion, rocker. this is a topic very near and dear to me as one of my life goals is to start a health and wellness retreat to give people alternatives to western medicine.
> 
> i couldn't agree more with the last sentence in your post, but don't get me wrong bro -- i do think conventional western medicine has its place. on that i agree with you totally as well. same with pharmacology. however, imho pharmacology and surgery are used too often when holistic methods would better serve the patient.
> 
> ...


 You are completely correct in all of that. I wish you the best of success with your project because it is sorely needed. If we could only break from the cycle of unnecessary and worthless 'care' the health system would be so much better off. THAT is where efforts need to be focused to bring overall costs down, and make 'care' something that actually makes well!

"From small acorns..."


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

on a lighter note, this from australia.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

osokolo said:


> i would not even say it the way you said it - like you are proud of "your boys" for outcheating every one else. i guess you could say "your boys" are the best cheaters too.


 How else can I say it, nearly everyone cheats and most are celbrated for it or it is laughed off, and no, IM not a big fan of cheating but with the pressure from big money to do "anything it takes to win" I really am not surprised. 
I also do not feel it Legitimate considering the history of this sport, or any sport for that matter to go back a few years to strip anyone of a title. Who knows what drugs were being taken before there were even our current obvious moderatly effective at best testing procedures. 
Home town favorites are nothing new and of course Americans are not very well liked world wide anyhow. 


> i also would not brag about american wins at the tour. the win percentage is ridiculously skewed against americans...


 Lance honestly put cycling on the map here in the states, and since he is only the second person to win seven consecutive titles well :thumbsup:



> other than that - how is life Blurr? still generally pissed at the government?


just sitting around waiting for the next internment camp to pop up, hows life on your end?


----------



## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

Blurr said:


> Americans are not very well liked world wide anyhow.


Surely you jest?


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

Blurr said:


> How else can I say it, nearly everyone cheats and most are celbrated for it or it is laughed off, and no, IM not a big fan of cheating but with the pressure from big money to do "anything it takes to win" I really am not surprised.
> I also do not feel it Legitimate considering the history of this sport, or any sport for that matter to go back a few years to strip anyone of a title. Who knows what drugs were being taken before there were even our current obvious moderatly effective at best testing procedures.
> Home town favorites are nothing new and of course Americans are not very well liked world wide anyhow.
> Lance honestly put cycling on the map here in the states, and since he is only the second person to win seven consecutive titles well :thumbsup:
> ...


Justification to ban all forms of organized/professional sports.

You'll need to do it for fun .... 'cause we ain't pay'in ya no more


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

bikeabuser said:


> Justification to ban all forms of organized/professional sports.
> 
> You'll need to do it for fun .... 'cause we ain't pay'in ya no more


Fine by me, sports figures are grossly over paid to say the least, especially when you consider the multi million dollar contracts they get while Nike has sweat shops, that is the real crime here, yet nobody seems to give a **** unless their favorite athelete is winning, wuuuppeeee :madman:


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

Careful, Blurr ... You'll earn a negative REP from one of the butt hurt people ... "Just Cuz" :lol:


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

oh, the fun never stops:

Lance Armstrong Reportedly Lied to Oprah During Tell-All Interview | Bleacher Report


----------



## xcguy (Apr 18, 2004)

shekky said:


> oh, the fun never stops:
> 
> Lance Armstrong Reportedly Lied to Oprah During Tell-All Interview | Bleacher Report


Don't care. And that's no lie.


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

xcguy said:


> Don't care. And that's no lie.


look man, if you don't care, you don't have to read it.


----------



## xcguy (Apr 18, 2004)

shekky said:


> look man, if you don't care, you don't have to read it.


Sounds good to me. You all continue with your Lance Hatefest, hope you all feel better spewing your hatred.


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

xcguy said:


> Sounds good to me. You all continue with your Lance Hatefest, hope you all feel better spewing your hatred.


okay, thanks.

i think Lance is a bad person for lying about his doping and stomping on anyone who would question him about doping... he is almost as bad as Stalin.


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

xcguy said:


> Sounds good to me. You all continue with your Lance Hatefest, hope you all feel better spewing your hatred.


posting a link with a news story is not "spewing hatred".

i don't "hate" lance.

i'm just very disappointed and sad that it's come to this.


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

daves4mtb said:


> Can you say "statute of limitations"? Good...
> 
> As an attorney, the dude reeked of lying. He was evasive, he squirmed, he refused to answer questions. You knew he was lying without having proof of it.
> 
> I still don't think this means he is worse than Hitler, Stalin, the Hillside Strangler, and the waterlogged corpse of Bin Laden, but he sure needs to trade in his hero card.


He's only gonna get out of one case via statute of limitations.

Lance Armstrong Lied To Oprah, Is Being Sued By People Who Bought His Book, And Refuses To Talk To The USADA

People are even going after him over his book.

The article has one thing right ... It will be a few years before he has to sign bike locks.


----------



## Blurr (Dec 7, 2009)

osokolo said:


> okay, thanks.
> 
> i think Lance is a bad person for lying about his doping and stomping on anyone who would question him about doping... he is almost as bad as Stalin.


In his past life he was a Direct Adviser to Stalin during the 1932 Famine in Ukraine :eekster:


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

Blurr said:


> In his past life he was a Direct Adviser to Stalin during the 1932 Famine in Ukraine :eekster:


Yep. That is when my grandma and grandpa were chased out of Ukraine, settled in south Central Europe and started making babies.


----------



## Satanic Pizza (Feb 28, 2012)

this thread is hilarious. y'all trippin


----------



## MikeLee777 (Jan 22, 2013)

*Outside Article on LiveStrong*



mikeridesabike said:


> Livestrong contributes almost nothing to actual cancer research. Interesting article in Outside a while back:
> 
> Lance Armstrong and Livestrong | Lance Armstrong | OutsideOnline.com


This was an excellent article, very well researched, enlightening to me.


----------



## Stugotz (Dec 14, 2011)

Lance Armstong Sings Radiohead's 'Creep'


----------



## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

Stugotz said:


> Lance Armstong Sings Radiohead's 'Creep'


Excellent rework of the original dribble..
I mean Lance not Radiohead's work.


----------



## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

Stugotz said:


> Lance Armstong Sings Radiohead's 'Creep'


Worth watching. Only 1:30 long. Funny, almost ironic.


----------



## On the Rocks (Jan 8, 2013)

I am astonished at how much more interested I'd be in the sport if I believed, without a doubt, all were clean. We love sports because we see somebody doing something we enjoy doing, but doing it at a level that is fantasy for us. But, ironically, when they take PEDs, the illusion they are real people doing extraordinary things (what our fantasy is based on) disintegrates.


----------



## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

Stugotz said:


> Lance Armstong Sings Radiohead's 'Creep'


I don't belong here


----------



## Stugotz (Dec 14, 2011)

*THIS is Lance's original interview that DIDN"T air!*

 Lance's original interview that DIDN"T air because the producers thought Lance was S-T-R-E-A-C-H-I-N-G the truth a little bit!


----------



## Fishbucket (Dec 4, 2012)

On the Rocks said:


> I am astonished at how much sports disintegrates.


There... feexed it..

:lol:


----------



## Fishbucket (Dec 4, 2012)

Stugotz said:


> Lance's original interview that DIDN"T air because the producers thought Lance was S-T-R-E-A-C-H-I-N-G the truth




:lol: :lol: .. I did not see that ending coming :lol:


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

On the Rocks said:


> We love sports because we see somebody doing something we enjoy doing, but doing it at a level that is fantasy for us.


That's the problem IMO. We idolize and sports have become more about "entertainment" than going out and having fun, experiencing endorphins, being competitive, etc. It's more about some 5'9" 230lb guy having a bbq and watching TV while consuming mass amounts of chicken wings, beer, and potato chips. It's the opposite of sports.

I rock climb. I don't sit there and watch people on TV all day, or rent DVDs of rock climbing, or anything to that extent. If I see something on TV about climbing, I might watch, but I don't care "who is who" in rock climbing, just like I don't care who is winning a tour de france, a mountain bike race, or whatever. It doesn't affect me. I don't care what sports team wins whatever game in whatever city. I like actually DOING these things. That's where my enjoyment comes from. Once this becomes more about entertainment and socializing (socializing is great as long as it's still getting out there and experiencing the "sport"), it goes downhill quickly from there.


----------



## Camaleon (May 10, 2006)

Jayem said:


> That's the problem IMO. We idolize and sports have become more about "entertainment" than going out and having fun, experiencing endorphins, being competitive, etc. It's more about some 5'9" 230lb guy having a bbq and watching TV while consuming mass amounts of chicken wings, beer, and potato chips. It's the opposite of sports.
> 
> I rock climb. I don't sit there and watch people on TV all day, or rent DVDs of rock climbing, or anything to that extent. If I see something on TV about climbing, I might watch, but I don't care "who is who" in rock climbing, just like I don't care who is winning a tour de france, a mountain bike race, or whatever. It doesn't affect me. I don't care what sports team wins whatever game in whatever city. I like actually DOING these things. That's where my enjoyment comes from. Once this becomes more about entertainment and socializing (socializing is great as long as it's still getting out there and experiencing the "sport"), it goes downhill quickly from there.


+1
I like going downhill quickly!
Sports are meant to be play not watch.


----------



## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

i LIKE watching the very best basketball, football and baseball players do what they do. (i.e., NBA, NFL, MLB) the last minute and a half of a close game can be quite entertaining. i don't have a problem with what they're getting paid, either--given the fact that the team owners are already rich beyond the comprehension of most people posting in this thread.

however, i'm not a fanatic. i'd rather be out riding my bike on a lovely saturday or sunday...or a weekday evening after work.

that doesn't mean i'm going to look down on the five foot nine two hundred and thirty pound chicken wing eating guy who loves to have his friends over for even more chicken wings on game day. that's his choice.

cameleon, i'll bet there's no shortage of downhill aficionados who spend hours watching pro downhillers on you tube.

to each their own, i say...unless you're cheating, lying about it and ruining other people's lives and careers in the process.


----------



## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

USPS Announces Plan Towards Financial Recovery: Lance Armstrong sued by U.S. for post office sponsorship funds - CNN.com


----------



## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

007 said:


> USPS Announces Plan Towards Financial Recovery: Lance Armstrong sued by U.S. for post office sponsorship funds - CNN.com


Fiddy million?


----------

