# What Deal Extreme Torches do you like?



## GSR101 (Aug 4, 2009)

I'd like to get a little discussion going about what people like torch-wise from Deal Extreme. I bought 4 of these http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14027 a few years ago, and my son has managed to lose a couple while camping. These are good, but have very little flood (good helmet spot light) - I'm looking for a light the same size that has more flood. What have you got from DX and like?

I do have a magicshine for the bars, but would like one more light (or a couple) to play with for the other side of the bars and helmet.

What DX SKU do you like and recommend?

TIA


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## Warrengee (May 11, 2010)

I have the Aurora AK-P7-5 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16091. It almost two years old and hasn't given me any problems. It's 3-4x brighter than your current flashlight but it's also double the cost. For $35 it's an awesome deal.


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## punkaccountant (Mar 23, 2009)

I'm interested in hearing the responses to this question as well so if there are any other suggestions I'd love to hear them.


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## XC707 (Apr 13, 2005)

https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.18623

heres mine, got 2 of these torches, modified it to be helmet mounted, i just used the lighthead, soldered a positive and negative wire and seal everything with silicone sealant and a plastic cap and used the clickie switch inline, i used an 11.1v 2500mah lipoly battery stored in my backpack. its very nice to use it on the helmet since it has a lot of throw. and it has a white cold q5 cree xr-e, it appears brighter even if its rated at only 400 lumens.
https://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20/DRAGUNOV_photo/Image0274.jpg

im using 2 ms900 on the bars and this torch on the helmet. very nice combination. my buddies say im too bright for the streets.:thumbsup:


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## qdave (Jun 5, 2007)

I have a couple of MTE SF-15 lights. 
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22567
Had two of them on my bars this past winter for downhill sections and used a Magicshine light for the climbs. These lights will burn about 1 hour on high. Both lights worked fine all winter. Very happy with this light and it's very bright.

I also have a TR-801 on my helmet.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13095
This light will burn for about 90 minutes. Had one of these die on me last year. Cheaper to buy a new one than to fix it.


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

Warrengee said:


> I have the Aurora AK-P7-5 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16091. It almost two years old and hasn't given me any problems. It's 3-4x brighter than your current flashlight but it's also double the cost. For $35 it's an awesome deal.


I am interested in this light, it comes with a battery charger correct?


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

*No charger*



GTR2ebike said:


> I am interested in this light, it comes with a battery charger correct?


 No charger, no battery, purchase separately.


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

Do you remember how much the total came to with shipping?


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

Do you remember how much the total was with shipping?


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

I use the MS on my helmet, and I run one or two of these on my bars.

However, I'm switching to these.

The ones from DX use 3 AAA batteries and last _about_ an hour before they start to dim. So sometimes I will change batteries mid-ride which is a pain to do in the dark, on the trail.

I think the ones from QualityChinaGoods will not only be brighter (Q5 compared to P4's), but will be a lot easier to change the single 18650 battery if need be.

I'll post my review of these when they get here and I get to use them on a night ride.

Oh, and I also have one of the Trustfire TR-801's from DX. I unthreaded the head about 2 turns and put a piece of electrical tape around the head to keep it from turning anymore. This takes the spot light and spreads it out a bit to be more floody.

I use this one as a loaner to people that don't have lights.


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

GTR2ebike said:


> Do you remember how much the total came to with shipping?


Dealextreme's prices include international shipping to any location.

Tim


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

GSR101 said:


> I'd like to get a little discussion going about what people like torch-wise from Deal Extreme. I bought 4 of these http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14027 a few years ago, and my son has managed to lose a couple while camping. These are good, but have very little flood (good helmet spot light) - *I'm looking for a light the same size that has more flood. What have you got from DX and like? *
> 
> I do have a magicshine for the bars, but would like one more light (or a couple) to play with for the other side of the bars and helmet.
> 
> ...


In keeping with the original request: Since you already have a couple torches that use drop-ins, this is my suggestion. Buy a couple XP-G R-5 drop-ins. This is the one I use and suggest > http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=10064
It is listed as 4.2volts max which is what you want if you are running single 18650's. It comes with a reflector that is a little too tight for MTB'in ( IMO ) BUT...if you exchange the reflector and use the one from your Q-5 XR-E drop-in, you will get a more usable beam pattern. The same applies if you wish to use it as a bar light.

Personally I have a couple nice true MTB light sets but a lot of time I choose the lite-weight / convenience of torches. My favorite bar torch to date is this one > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12060
I use it with this torch holder > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15342
This P-7 torch is the best one I have. It works flawlessly,has a nice wide spill and lots of throw. Comes on in mid-mode, then low, then high, then the flash modes. There is no memory but this is a mixed blessing. All you have to do is turn it off and it comes back on in mid-mode so no need to cycle through the stupid flash modes. It will run for more than three hours in mid-mode which is a very usable setting. Even the low mode is only slightly dimmer than mid-mode and can be considered usable as well. With my sku12060 on the bars and my XP-G drop-in with XRE reflector on the helmet, I have no problem seeing anything. So far I'm doing my typical 2hr rides and still haven't yet needed to switch out a battery ( even though I always carry a spare just in case ) Anyway, out of the 8 or so torches I own these are the ones I use most. :thumbsup:


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## Warrengee (May 11, 2010)

GTR2ebike said:


> I am interested in this light, it comes with a battery charger correct?


Unfortunately it doesn't come with the charger. The charger is only $5 though.


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## punkaccountant (Mar 23, 2009)

I'm curious on how long the MTE P7 or Aurora P7 torch will run on high?


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## GSR101 (Aug 4, 2009)

punkaccountant said:


> I'm curious on how long the MTE P7 or Aurora P7 torch will run on high?


60 minutes or less from what I've read on here.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

GSR101 said:


> 60 minutes or less from what I've read on here.


Just so everyone understands....Yes, that is right, the torch begins to noticeably dim around 50min but remains near the high output level for near 60min. After that the torch will continue to run maybe another 20-30min at diminished output levels ( depending on how old your batteries are ). Usually I will switch batteries ( takes about 30sec. ) if/when the output drops below the lowest level....UNLESS...I know I will need the higher output then I will/would switch out much sooner. Nevertheless, since I run the mid-level most of time for the bars, I've yet to run a battery out while on a ride. That goes for the helmet torch as well, I only use the high setting when I really need it.


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

*P7-D MTE flashlight*

I am very happy so far with this flashlight:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22569
I use the following bar mount for it:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.31871
I found this info on mtbr.com , I think it was in the DIY lights forum

Cat-man-do, do you find that the torch mount (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15342) is secure, not allowing the torch to rattle around on the trail?

DX also has a more expensive Fenix mount:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13004
see attached image.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

goatman said:


> I
> 
> Cat-man-do, do you find that the torch mount (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15342) is secure, not allowing the torch to rattle around on the trail?


Yes, it is very secure. It uses a cam-type buckle for both the bar mount and the torch mount. It takes a little getting used to to find the right adjustment for the torch but once you're dialed in everything is very secure. The bar buckle is almost exactly like the bar mount for the Dinotte 600L....quick release is the best way to go. The base of the mount is designed to swivel a bit, which I don't like but other than that it is a nice mount. I just tape up the swivel so it doesn't move and I'm good. I liked it so much I bought a spare...just in case it breaks or something. I've used it more than a year now without a problem.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

So why not another MS900 or it's bigger brother the 1400? Seems like the 1400 on the bars and the 900 on the helmet would be a wicked combo. I guess it would be significantly more expensive than a couple of DX lights, if low $$$ is what you're after.


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## moggy82 (Jan 30, 2009)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> So why not another MS900 or it's bigger brother the 1400? Seems like the 1400 on the bars and the 900 on the helmet would be a wicked combo. I guess it would be significantly more expensive than a couple of DX lights, if low $$$ is what you're after.


After 2+ years of lights attached to my bike, i have now gone for this combo, the Ms1400 mount is a bit feable for this light over proper off road terrain so had to do my Electron mount upgrade! I have a 5 mode Geoman MS900 on my helmet.

Never need more light i tend to use the front light with just the two R2's on full for most riding as it gives a nice broad beam.

I do sometimes pop a R5/SST-50 on bars too, too give a bit more punch into the night with only a little extra weight up there!

TBH i have probably spent the same amount of money on light as if id ove bought a Betty! But now have a load of spare torches batteries etc and have kitted out 4 people so far with my GF plannig on using my SF-15 on bars and the R5 on her helmet for the upcoming season! (i go out late just to use my lights (and the trails are empty) while its light at night)



GOATMAN said:


> Cat-man-do, do you find that the torch mount (https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15342) is secure, not allowing the torch to rattle around on the trail?


click on the link in my sig if you want to make proper style mount for yoyr torches, will update with my current ones which are even better soon!


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

I just ordered an MTE SF-15 off DX as they are a little smaller/more compact than my current SF-23 with a similar light output. 
*Moggy82* can you elaborate on what lights these are that you mentioned:
"_Never need more light i tend to use the front light with just the two R2's on full for most riding as it gives a nice broad beam_."
Pardon my ignorance!

Thanks for the informative link!

I run a Magicshine 900lumen on my helmet as well.


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## moggy82 (Jan 30, 2009)

goatman said:


> I just ordered an MTE SF-15 off DX as they are a little smaller/more compact than my current SF-23 with a similar light output.
> *Moggy82* can you elaborate on what lights these are that you mentioned:
> "_Never need more light i tend to use the front light with just the two R2's on full for most riding as it gives a nice broad beam_."
> Pardon my ignorance!
> ...


That is refferring to the MS1400, the two small ligts on the sides!

You wont regret the SF-15 as long as you get a genuine one, there are copies which are much larger floating about! My one had no memory mode so came straight on at full, then one half click to med mode, the other modes never got used!


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## punkaccountant (Mar 23, 2009)

moggy82 said:


> You wont regret the SF-15 as long as you get a genuine one, there are copies which are much larger floating about! My one had no memory mode so came straight on at full, then one half click to med mode, the other modes never got used!


Excuse my ignorance but is most of the Deal Extreme stuff fake or do they sell from the genuine manufacturers? How can they sell a product labeled as an Aurora or MTE if it wasn't made by that company?


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## LiveFreeThenDie (Mar 21, 2010)

*Ditto*



qdave said:


> I have a couple of MTE SF-15 lights.
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22567
> Had two of them on my bars this past winter for downhill sections and used a Magicshine light for the climbs. These lights will burn about 1 hour on high. Both lights worked fine all winter. Very happy with this light and it's very bright.
> 
> ...


Copy cat. I have the 5 mode MTE. My ride is 35-40 minutes and I recharge batteries after two rides. The MTE on the bars is floody, the TR-801 on the helmet is throwy. This is my first helmet light and I really like having a helmet light.

I use sku.12000 for helmet mount and sku.15642 for the bars. The bar mount is rock solid but cumbersome to remove the flashlight. I've just ordered sku.8274, which is hidden in Flashlight Accessories!

I've also ordered the fake PBSF sku.35036 to attach to the back of my helmet.

I'm happy with these flashlights. They are relatively small while still delivering a good amount of light. The 2 battery flashlights are just too long for my tastes.


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## LiveFreeThenDie (Mar 21, 2010)

*Not fakes*



punkaccountant said:


> Excuse my ignorance but is most of the Deal Extreme stuff fake or do they sell from the genuine manufacturers? How can they sell a product labeled as an Aurora or MTE if it wasn't made by that company?


These flashlights are made by the listed manufacturers. But the knock off brands are cheap imitations of quality name brand flashlights like Surefire, Fenix, Jetbeam. The quality of these lights is hit or miss. Many people call DX products Junkfire. I like all of my Junkfire lights! If I ruin them in the rain or if I crash, I can afford to replace them. And as Catmandoo has pointed out, if you buy P60 style lights, you can upgrade the pill as new emitters come out.

I have to admit, though, that the Dinotte and other name brand bike lights look very fashionable. And I've never seen anyone complain about quality; they are all well made lights.

What you choose is personal preference.


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

*Bar mount modifications*

*LiveFreeThenDie* said:
_I've just ordered sku.8274, which is hidden in Flashlight Accessories!_

Have a look at this thread:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=637239


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

GSR101 said:


> I'd like to get a little discussion going about what people like torch-wise from Deal Extreme. I bought 4 of these http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14027 a few years ago, and my son has managed to lose a couple while camping. These are good, but have very little flood (good helmet spot light) - I'm looking for a light the same size that has more flood. What have you got from DX and like?
> 
> I do have a magicshine for the bars, but would like one more light (or a couple) to play with for the other side of the bars and helmet.
> 
> ...


Ok guys this thread shuldn't mutate to another magicshine discussion!!

Back to GSR101 question:
Based upon your existing 4 (or now less  ) DX lights this Skyray Light is what you are searching for (my guess  ) 
It gives you a bit more flood, thus with a reasonable throw, you can use your existing batteries and charger and it is the same size! Buuuuut it kicks out a lot mor lumen and unses the latest led technology........

Ok, that was my input :eekster:

Ok, one last thing to mention though:
As catmando already suggested - just to replace the drop in is also a cheap and well working solution! You only need a light for that (hopefully your son hasn't lost all your lights)


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Whitedog1 said:


> Based upon your existing 4 (or now less  ) DX lights this Skyray Light is what you are searching for (my guess  )
> ..... uses *the latest led technology*........


Actually it uses tomorrows technology. XPE R4, not released yet. 
:nono:


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

znomit said:


> Actually it uses tomorrows technology. XPE R4, not released yet.
> :nono:


yes you are right: DX shows a false description!:madman:

If you look at the reviews and the forum discussions.......it seems to be an XPG R5 :eekster:


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## Chromagftw (Feb 12, 2009)

*Fenix LD20s*.

IMO are among some of the best AA flashlights out there albeit pricey. The ones listed on DealExtreme are the older Cree Q5 XR-E versions (180 lumens).

The latest out right now are the XP-G R4 models with slightly higher lumen output (205 lumens) and similar run times (unfortunately not offered by DX yet).

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.19190


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

goatman said:


> I just ordered an MTE SF-15 off DX as they are a little smaller/more compact than my current SF-23 with a similar light output.
> [.


Goatman, did you get your MTE from DX yet? It's this one right? If so, first impressions?

I'm thinking about getting the same one (I like that it's shorter then a lot of the other P7's).
It would be for my bars while my MS900 is on my helmet.

Since I already have 18650 batteries around, it seems like a good alternative to getting another complete MS, and it's only about 1/3 of the price.

Any feedback (from anyone) on sku 22567 is appreciated.


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

fightnut said:


> Goatman, did you get your MTE from DX yet? It's this one right? If so, first impressions?
> 
> I'm thinking about getting the same one (I like that it's shorter then a lot of the other P7's).
> It would be for my bars while my MS900 is on my helmet.
> ...


Fightnut I am very impressed with the MTE-SF15 flashlight. (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22567)
It is just as bright as the longer & heavier MTE SF- 23 that I already own.
I had to tighten the LED module and using needle nose pliers though, as it was a little loose. Actually went and tightened the switch assembly this morning as well, even though it was not really that loose, just that I like to have it seated tightly. (No fun trying to sort out a flickering or dead flashlight out on the trail at night.)
The size is ideal for a handlebar torch.
I did a test running MS 900 on my helmet and both MTE SF-23 and MTE SF-15 on the bars using the modified mounts sku.15342. 
I found that one flashlight provided enough flood for the area in front of my wheel.
I would recommend the smaller MTE-SF15 as long as you check that everything is tight when you receive it. It would also be an option as a helmet flashlight.
Build quality seems fine, the clicky type tailswitch works well. 
I don't want to run another MS on the bars as then I have to attach a battery pack to my frame. I carry some spare 18650 batteries in my Camelbak for the flashlight just in case.


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## LiveFreeThenDie (Mar 21, 2010)

fightnut said:


> Goatman, did you get your MTE from DX yet? It's this one right? If so, first impressions?
> 
> I'm thinking about getting the same one (I like that it's shorter then a lot of the other P7's).
> It would be for my bars while my MS900 is on my helmet.
> ...


I have that P7 and I like it. I don't really have anything to compare it to. The build quality isn't too bad. It doesn't get too hot while riding. It has been rock solid, no flakiness. It even remembers what mode it was in if you power cycle it. It's a perfect size for the handle bars.

The light I got was well worth the money.


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## ilostmypassword (Dec 9, 2006)

I've reviewed both the 900 & 1400 Lumen deal extreme lights. Blinking great for teh cash.

Only reservation so far is their lack of water tightness.....and short cable shipped.






Magicshine Beam Video from www.paulpetch.com on Vimeo.






Magicshine/ Nitelights LED Light Review from www.paulpetch.com on Vimeo.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

I use these.

https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.05937










M-CE m bin, $20, but switched the reflector (below) with a smooth one instead for some throw.

https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.05937


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Got my MTE SF-15 today and I'm kinda bummed. I'm having problems with it staying on.

As soon as I got it, I stuck a fresh battery in, turned it on, came on high first and shut right off. Medium ad low stayed on, but high, strobe and sos would shut off.

I took it apart, tightened down the switch and the pill (got maybe a 1/4 turn or less). Put it all back together and this time high/med/low seem to be staying on, but strobe and sos shut off after a second or two.

If it stays that way, that's fine with me because I have no need to those two modes, but I can't help but be concerned that I could have future problems with high/med/low.

Anyone else have an issue with this particular light?


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

So, for the people out there that have the MTE SF-15, is it a good deal? I'm thinking getting these items from DX:

MTE SF-15 P7
2-Pack Trustfire 2000mah 18650 batteries
Battery Charger

Total comes to $43, which seems like a good deal. Good list you think, or are there better products for about the same price?


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## punkaccountant (Mar 23, 2009)

fightnut said:


> Got my MTE SF-15 today and I'm kinda bummed. I'm having problems with it staying on.
> 
> As soon as I got it, I stuck a fresh battery in, turned it on, came on high first and shut right off. Medium ad low stayed on, but high, strobe and sos would shut off.
> 
> ...


I ordered the 2 of those same lights and I'm waiting on them to arrive any day now. I'll let you know how they turn out. I'm not so excited now after hearing about your problems.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> So, for the people out there that have the MTE SF-15, is it a good deal? I'm thinking getting these items from DX:
> 
> MTE SF-15 P7
> 2-Pack Trustfire 2000mah 18650 batteries
> ...


I bought the exact same thing as you, and I'm impressed with it. It's very powerful and lasts long enough, though for longer rides I need to change batteries. It's impossible to beat for the price.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

fightnut said:


> Got my MTE SF-15 today and I'm kinda bummed. I'm having problems with it staying on.
> 
> As soon as I got it, I stuck a fresh battery in, turned it on, came on high first and shut right off. Medium ad low stayed on, but high, strobe and sos would shut off.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you might have a bad driver. On the other hand this could be a blessing in disguise. Who really wants the flash modes anyway? As long as you have High-med-low you should be good. If you continue to have problems don't sit on it too long though. The shorter days are coming and there will likely be the usual rush for "All things light related" when the days get shorter. It would be prudent to ship it back before the mad rush is on for new lights. If it were me, I would just go ahead and order another one ( as long as you like the output..) and keep the other one as a back-up / lender / extra parts / or return later option. At least the one you have now works, for ever how long that may be. :thumbsup:

Let us know how things fair. I was thinking of ordering one of these myself to replace my clunky SF-23 which has one burnt out led die. For the time being I'm going to wait to see if others have the same problem with theirs as you did with yours before I decide to order.

A quick little positive D/X story: Four weeks ago I ordered a nice little Q-5 5-mode mini torch for pocket duties. I also ordered two of the CRC123A rechargable Li-ion cells the torch works with ( only uses one cell at a time ). The bad news was the batteries I ordered were out of stock. The good news was that D/'X sent two other batteries ( Trustfire 880mAh Black and red/fire cells ) and told me they would send the others when they came in stock. I thought that was a nice touch by D/X. The torch works great and the batteries are great as well. Nothing like getting something for free to add some icing on the cake.


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

*Troubleshooting link*

Here is a link for troubleshooting your flashlights:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=227518

I found this on another thread on mtbr.com.


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> So, for the people out there that have the MTE SF-15, is it a good deal? I'm thinking getting these items from DX:
> 
> MTE SF-15 P7
> 2-Pack Trustfire 2000mah 18650 batteries
> ...


I use these batteries:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26247

2600 mAh

Protected circuit, no problems yet.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Update/review of my MTE SF-15.
I used it on my bars last night for a nice rooty ride. I only really wanted HIGH, and so that's all I used. I didn't even try the other modes. It starts on HIGH each time.
Our ride was about 1.5 hrs. I would shut it off when we'd stop to regroup, and the one battery lasted the whole time. Just as we were nearing the end of the ride, I noticed it was slightly dimmer for about the last 5 minutes. 
So minus the breaks, I got a little over an hour of full light before it started to dim.

No problems at all, no flickering, no shutting off. It makes a real nice bar light. I personally wouldn't want to wear it on my helmet because of the size and weight, but it could be done.

It will be a nice cheap light that I can lend out to people who don't have lights, or use it to compliment my MS900 that's on my helmet until I pick up a MS1400 for my bars.

Today I tried the other modes and everything is working fine now. Go figure. I dunno, maybe it needed to warm up! LOL!
For the price, I'm real happy with it. I'd buy another one.

Now if I could just get DX to ship my mounts!


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

*Batteries*

Fightnut,

Cool, glad it all worked out on the trail!
What 18650 batteries you using?
Some DX items can be hit and miss regarding stock, I was lucky with those mounts as mine shipped straight away with my torch...
off topic: how do I get to use an underlined word in my posts as a link to a website eg. Deal Extreme instead of putting in the whole url?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

goatman said:


> off topic: how do I get to use an underlined word in my posts as a link to a website eg. Deal Extreme instead of putting in the whole url?


Yep, that was one of my questions till not too long ago. This is done using HTML. If there is a short-cut to doing this I sure wish I knew how it could be done. Otherwise, you write it out using HTML. This link explains how to do it, in more ways than one.


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yep, that was one of my questions till not too long ago. This is done using HTML. If there is a short-cut to doing this I sure wish I knew how it could be done. Otherwise, you write it out using HTML. This link explains how to do it, in more ways than one.


Thanks Cat-man-do!

I was also hoping for a shortcut!

A pic of modified bar mount using an additional screw here
I just used glue instead.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

goatman said:


> Thanks Cat-man-do!
> 
> I was also hoping for a shortcut!











Linky shortcut icon appears when you're writing a post.
Select text then click it and add in your link URL. :thumbsup:


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

znomit said:


> Linky shortcut icon appears when you're writing a post.
> Select text then click it and add in your link URL. :thumbsup:


:thumbsup: +++

:idea: so that's what that icon is for....thanks man I am finally en_light_ened....


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

goatman said:


> :thumbsup: +++
> 
> :idea: so that's what that icon is for....thanks man I am finally en_light_ened....


Thanks znomit and thanks goatman for being brave enough to ask, I should of asked that question myself years ago. Since we're totally off subject  
I now know that I have the same icon on my Outlook Express. All this time and I never knew what it did...shhhhhhsh!


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

"thanks goatman for being brave enough to ask" :blush: 
My apologies for veering off topic.......

To get back to business:

Attached pic of MTE SF 15 and MTE SF 23.
Respectively about 13.5mm and 15.4mm long.


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> In keeping with the original request: Since you already have a couple torches that use drop-ins, this is my suggestion. Buy a couple XP-G R-5 drop-ins. This is the one I use and suggest > http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=10064
> It is listed as 4.2volts max which is what you want if you are running single 18650's. It comes with a reflector that is a little too tight for MTB'in ( IMO ) BUT...if you exchange the reflector and use the one from your Q-5 XR-E drop-in, you will get a more usable beam pattern. The same applies if you wish to use it as a bar light.
> 
> Personally I have a couple nice true MTB light sets but a lot of time I choose the lite-weight / convenience of torches. My favorite bar torch to date is this one > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12060
> ...


Sorry, Cat-man, can you detail the helmet setup you mentioned there "xp-g drop-in with XRE reflector" ... you lost me ... i'm a total noob regarding lights, but looking for a light weight, cheap helmet setup ( DX torch of some sort... ) thx.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

slcpunk said:


> Sorry, Cat-man, can you detail the helmet setup you mentioned there "xp-g drop-in with XRE reflector" ... you lost me ... i'm a total noob regarding lights, but looking for a light weight, cheap helmet setup ( DX torch of some sort... ) thx.


Step one: you need a P-60 drop-in torch host such as this. This particular torch host is the same one I use. It is relatively small and light-weight. This one comes with the Cree R-2 5-mode drop-in. The R-2 is an XR-E emitter so if you get this you will get the reflector as well. The reflectors unscrew very easily from the drop-in.

Step 2: get the 5-mode XP-G R-5 drop-in from Kaidomain ( the one listed as 4.2volts ) as I suggested before.

Step3: switch reflectors. The stock XP-G reflector is very narrow but has great throw, you might like this more. I like the XR-E reflector as it makes the beam a little more wider, more useful for MTB'in IMO. This of course compromises throw but it is a worthy trade off. When I use the XR-E reflector on the XP-G I don't tighten it down all the way. I leave it a couple threads up. You might have to experiment a bit to find your sweet spot.

The only thing else you will need are batteries and a charger and the ability to mount it to your helmet of course. If you need suggestions for batteries and charger I can give you those as well.

Note: I didn't see the XPG drop in listed on Kaidomain, unless they are talking about this.
For some reason they are listing it as a lamp cap but it looks like the drop-in to me.
Also note, I saw a good deal on a charger and two batteries on Kaidomain for about $20, not a bad deal.


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

*thread summary ... debate the reponses ... maybe should have started a new thread...*

cat-man-do, wow and thanks for all the info.

reviewed the thread - although the suggestions about how the OP might modify his light are relevant to him, for the rest of us (um...me?) looking for thoughts on the current choices on DX for torches.

Here are the recommendations from the thread so far with prices and the marketing points for each from DX. Pros/Cons on each?!?

Trust Fire 801 - $13.54
- Features a Cree XR-E Q5 WC LED emitter
- Powered by 1 x 18650 lithium battery (4.2V max)
- 230 lumens max (manufacturer rated)
- Single-mode clicky tailcap switch
Weight: 2.43 oz

Ultra Fire 501b - $16.15
- Features a Cree XR-E R2-WC LED emitter
- Powered by 1 x 18650 or 2 x 3.0V/3.6V CR123A batteries
- 5-mode tailcap clicky switch with state memory: Hi > Mid > Lo > Strobe > SOS
- Mode memory circuitry built-in -- returns the light to the previously used mode
- 250 lumens maximum brightness (manufacturer rated)
- 40 to 60 minutes estimated runtime per charge (manufacturer rated)
Weight: 3.6 oz
* additionally, Cat-man-do suggests replacing the reflector to get better flood.

UltraFire WF-502B $18.59
Emitter Brand/Type: Cree XPE-WCR5
Battery Configurations: 1 x 18650 / 2 x 16340 rechargeable battery
Mode Memory: Circuitry Features Mode Memory
Mode Arrangement: Hi > Mid > Lo > Fast Strobe > Slow Strobe
Brightness: 320 lumens maximum brightness (manufacturer rated)
Runtime: 50 minutes (manufacturer rated)
Weight: 4.13 oz (117 g)

MTE SSC P7 5 mode - $28.04
- Features a SSC P7 High Luminance LED Emitter
- 900-Lumen maximum output (rated by MTE, printed on the body)
- Powered by 1 x 3.7V 18650 rechargeable battery (not included)
- 5-Mode tail-cap clicky switch with memory: Lo > Mid > Hi > Strobe > SOS
Weight: 4.76 oz

MTE SF-15 - $28.75 (very simlar to SF-23, but smaller
Emitter: SSC P7 - D
Battery Configurations:	1 x 18650 battery
Mode Arrangement:	Hi > Mid > Lo > Fast Strobe > SOS
Brightness:	900 lumens maximum brightness (manufactuer rated)
*Runtime:	Hi 2.5-hours; Lo 4-hours (manufactuer rated)*
Weight: 4.87 oz

Aurora AK-P7-5 HA-III - $34.89
- Features a Seoul Semiconductors SSC P7-C LED emitter
- Powered by 1 x 18650 battery (4.2V max)
- 5-mode tail cap clicky switch: Mid > Lo > Hi > Strobe > SOS
- 900 lumens maximum brightness (manufacturer rated)
- 30~60 estimated total runtime per charge (manufacturer rated)
Weight: 5.22 oz

and lastly,

MX Power ML-900 - $43.85
Emitter Brand/Type:	Cree XR-E Emitter BIN:	Q5-WC
*Total Emitters:	3*
Battery Configurations:	2 x 18650, or 4 x 3.0V/3.6V CR123A batteries
Switch Type:	Clicky (Clickie) Modes:	3
Brightness:	400 lumens (manufacturer rated)
Typical Battery Runtime:	~2 hours (manufacturer rated)
Weight: 7.83 oz

So what's the best deal/pros/cons when comparing price, battery configs, emitter, weight, run time and real world brightness between these torches?

Really looking for a light cheap torch for the helmet to compliment something like a magic shine on the handle bars. ( I think that mirrors the OP's question - although he did already have some gear like batteries and possible hosts ...so trying to open it back up and debating the specific SKUs above ...maybe i should have started a new thread .. dunno )

Wondering about thoughts like: you could buy 2 of the 13.95 TR801s, and spend less than some of the other options....and total weight (according to their specs, not sure if that's legit) would be just about the same, or only slightly more. But do the TR801s hold up in terms of brightness and other things?


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

slcpunk, I got one of the TR-801's last year because there was so much talk about them on here.
Although it is a bright light, and small/lightweight enough to wear on a helemt, once I had it side by side with my MS (and especially now with my MTE SF-15), it's just not as impressive.
Plus it has a very small hotspot, too tight of a spot for me.

The MTE SF-15 has a floodier beam and lots of bright spill. But, I wouldn't want to wear a P7 on my helmet (there certainly are people that do though), I just think it's too big/heavy and is too noticable.

I'd say run the MS on your helmet, stick a P7 on your bars and you're good to go.

My TR-801 (as well as several zoom to throw torches) are loaners now.


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

fightnut said:


> slcpunk, I got one of the TR-801's last year because there was so much talk about them on here.
> Although it is a bright light, and small/lightweight enough to wear on a helemt, once I had it side by side with my MS (and especially now with my MTE SF-15), it's just not as impressive.
> Plus it has a very small hotspot, too tight of a spot for me.
> 
> ...


Great info - I have been using an old NiteRider HID on my helmet, and I thought that was too heavy...I just assumed the torches would be lighter than the MS, but I guess the P7s really aren't.

oh, wow. i just went and weighed that NR lamp that I thought was so heavy ... its only 176g ... so those torches would really be much more. ( although partly its where the weight is, on the front, pushing my helmet down over my eyes ) hmm... have to think some more ... OH ... double DOH ... grams vs. Oz. I wasn't paying attention...so most of those torches WOULD be lighter than that NR HID.










Don't forget about this boat anchor! Yikes, I rode with 2 of these, one on the bike and one in my pack...that's like 4 pounds!! Dark ages compared to new Lithium batteries...








.


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

i just got out on my new set up last night.

i'm using this:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22567

(the MTE SF-15) on the bars and...

this:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12060

(the MTE SSC P7) on the helmet.

i really really like the SF-15. i was using it in mid-mode the whole time and thought it was plenty bright. to be honest, i would actually like to use it on the helmet as well. the P7 is real easy to fit on the head, and did not make my helmet slide all over and my head feel heavy. using the P7 is adequate in mid-mode for twisty higher speed flats and moderate speed downhills, but when you get moving on the downhills, i ended up putting it on high.

i think this is a great set up, and would even go with two of the SF-15s, one on the head and one on the bars. the SF-15 has a nice color light and is plenty bright, and plenty of spill for use as a flood.

as an FYI:
i'm using these batteries:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26247

and picked up this charger too:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6105

my buddy had a magicshine and between the two of us we had plenty of light for high speed downhills. we were out for just over one hour and i noticed no dimming at all... i think that was because i was using mid-mode for 90% of the time.


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

clarkenstein said:


> i just got out on my new set up last night.
> 
> i'm using this:
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22567
> ...


awesome info. if you get more run time info, post it up, would be curious. Also, would you say the SF-15 is much heavier/bulkier than the P7 or are they about equal? ( the SF15 looks slightly bulkier )

seems like a super good way to get in cheap...and even have some options down the road for modding/replacing pills/reflectors etc.

Also, how much less bright was your setup compared to your buddy's MS? ( not really fair, 3 lights vs. 1 ... but ... nearly the same price )

and finally, helmet mount, did you just make your own or use something from DX?


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

_and finally, helmet mount, did you just make your own or use something from DX?_

There are two basic mounts that I have used for mounting the SF 15 and SF 23 to helmets (friend's helmets)
Depending on the design of the helmet one of these two from DX should fit:
this one or this one


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

slcpunk, I can tell you that when I click back and forth from my SF-15 torch and my MS900, I can barely see a difference in brightness.

As far as size and weight between the two torches that clarkstein has, you can see the measurements and weights listed on their DX ads.

Hope that helps.


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

slcpunk said:


> awesome info. if you get more run time info, post it up, would be curious. Also, would you say the SF-15 is much heavier/bulkier than the P7 or are they about equal? ( the SF15 looks slightly bulkier )
> 
> seems like a super good way to get in cheap...and even have some options down the road for modding/replacing pills/reflectors etc.
> 
> ...


like fightnut said - all the exact weights/lengths are on the website. nothing is overly heavy or anything for me.

so i took the set up out again last night. ran solid for just under an hour and half with no noticed dimming at all. i run everything generally on mid but cycle through to high mode for high speed downhills. i added a few extra miles this trip out and used high a bit more and didn't have to change batteries - so i'm pretty psyched about the time i get on mid. i even went to just using the bar light only on mid for slow steady climbs and that worked fine.

there's little difference in weight/bulk of the lights. one is shorter than the other, and that's all i can really notice honestly.

as far as the difference between my helmet light and the MS - on high, virtually none for riding purposes. they are both really bright. now that i used high more on this ride i'm real happy with the helmet light choice.

as far as my mount goes - i did buy something for the helmet but it just didn't work out for my giro xen. i ended up taking a couple popsicle sticks, cutting them up, wrapping them in electrical tape, and using some wire cable ties to fasten everything together.

i'll take some pics and post them up soon.


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

i got out to the car and took a picture of my helmet set up. it could be a pretty temporary set up, but it doesn't have an inkling of wiggle, so i may just leave it that way. i normally go to a skate style lid in the fall/winter, so this might just become my night riding helmet until the warmer temps come around again.


i used the wrapped popsicle sticks to push the light up a bit so i don't have to keep my head in an awkward position to have it light up the right area, and it also gives the light a platform to sit on. the velcro holds the light in place, so i can take the light off in a second. if i were to ride around without the light, i would just look extra dorky with two black slats on my helmet and some cable tie loops stuck to it, but whatever.

honestly, i think it'll probably end up being my permanent set up since i know i'll be too lazy to figure anything else out at this point since i have something set up that works.


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

and here it is is sans light. i should have used black cable ties, but i ran out. at least i didn't use blaze orange. or maybe i should have...


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

clarkenstein said:


> and here it is is sans light. i should have used black cable ties, but i ran out. at least i didn't use blaze orange. or maybe i should have...


my favorite type of diy project ... popsicle sticks....sweet! low tech, but functional.

thanks again for all the info.. (everyone)

really starting to think this is the way to go ... sure I would love something like the amoeba..but for the price this type of setup is looking hard to beat. ( MS not withstanding...)


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

You might want to consider XP-E over XP-G as it has better beam pattern for cycling.

I not used but below are one's i picked out that are worthy of consideration.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.32721
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.33549 
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22571
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16538
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16240
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39233

http://www.batteryjunction.com/thrunite-p60-r5.html
http://www.lightake.com/detail.do/sku.30647 (2x18650)
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.32954

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.42665 (red)
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15689 (red)
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20333 (red)
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26345 (red)

or forget all above and just get a Solarforce L2M(good upgrades) with a tube cell extender to take 2x18650 and fit a XP-E or XP-G drop in. :thumbsup:


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

I gotta disagree with terratec on this one (with all due respect of course)
But why would you spend $23-$26 for a 150-320 lumen light when you can get 600ish lumens from a $28 P7?

Especially if they are similar size and weight anyway.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

fightnut said:


> I gotta disagree with terratec on this one (with all due respect of course)
> But why would you spend $23-$26 for a 150-320 lumen light when you can get 600ish lumens from a $28 P7?


I agree with your disagreement. 

The extra output is very welcome.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm still learning myself. The P60 body torches seem more practical due to there easier upgradibility and better quality components. I am suggesting good alternatives if your fed up with the P7 with it's clunky head. The XP-G will be more efficient and should produce less heat, and you know it not all about lumens but the beam pattern/throw.

You could use 2 low price XP-G each with different beam patterns and would be more effective.

Why is it i read several reports it harder to distinguish between XP-G R5 and P7?

You mean like this MCE?
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.36356

They get hot.

Look how nicer this torch is for $21
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.32749


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

MTE SSC P7 900-Lumen 5-Mode Super LED Flashlight (18650)
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12060

_This light is not much brighter than the extremely bright Ultrafire WF-502B Cree XPE-WCR5 320-Lumen 5-mode, SKU 35076, which sells for about $19 and has the additional option of two CR123a's instead of a single 18650. You can buy two of the Ultrafires for just a few bucks more than the price of one of these._

If 1 or 2 Cree XPE or G 320-Lumen 5-mode won't be enough for you. Neither will 1 P7, MCE

I just think 2 torches at $40 is better value than 1 torch at $30 for several reasons. Better beams, throw, safety, backup etc. All the 2x18650 P7 i have seen have been long.

Am i talking rubbish?
_
Bottomline: Nice light but since I have the SKYRAY S-R5 Cree XPG-R4 5-Mode 320-Lumen Memory LED Flashlight (SKU 32749) I like this SKYRAY better. The SKYRAY is also about half the price of this MTE._


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

t-tec, i'm not sure if i am following you 100%.

but the light i think you were saying was nice...

_Look how nicer this torch is for $21
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.32749_

... it looks like it has a very very tight beam and a pretty short run time with fewer lumens than the other options mentioned. i understand the need for throw (i guess it depends on where you ride) but i am finding plenty of throw with the set up i have now. i ride in relatively tight/twisty east coast style stuff tho, but even on the straight-shot downhills i feel i have plenty of throw with more lumesn, better run time, and only for a few dollars more.

i agree with you about the 2 battery set ups - i don't think i would personally want a flashlight that long or heavy on the bars or my helmet.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

terratec said:


> Am i talking rubbish?


Not at all, but it's a matter of opinions. I just happen to prefer a big honking light. It just works better for me.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

I say, If you want big honking light then it is wiser to spend just alittle more($40-50) and get something more quality. Lots of lumens, whatever the model at the lowest prices means, they cut corners more on the rest of the flashlight somewhere and the light comes into whole question. eg. heat


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

clarkenstein said:


> t-tec, i'm not sure if i am following you 100%.
> 
> but the light i think you were saying was nice...
> 
> ...


It was just a example to make a point that total lumens aren't everything. Build quality and beam patterns are. There are other nice suitable torches around. Besides my requirements are different.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

bad mechanic said:


> It's a matter of opinions.


Sure, you like the improved P7, MTE MCE etc.

Title of thread "What Deal Extreme Torches do you like?"

and the list are the one's i like to get


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## urbanseeds (Jul 2, 2007)

Can anyone recommend a DE lamp that takes AA or AAA, not interested in the 18650 or CR battery models. Need a light that I can get batteries at any backcountry store. I would like a light with about 10-12 hour run time. Lumen output is not as critical as long run time is. Needs to be functional, so lumen output needs to be 50-100.

Anybody have an recommendations while they were searching the DE website?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

...Well I might as well add my .02. On high the P-7 torch is gonna have the wider/brighter beam pattern but as terratec has alluded to, the XP-G has good or better throw depending on what reflector is being used. While I've never used a P-7 torch for helmet duties I suppose it could be done. I did use an MC-E torch for helmet duties for about a year. It supplied a very nice beam pattern on high and had lots of throw/spill. To achieve that throw though it had to use a 40mm reflector. This made the torch a tad heavy/clunky. When the XP-G torches came out I switched to one of those. In my case an Ultrafire WF-401B with XPG P-60 drop-in. I don't have a scale but the WF401B is a lot lighter/smaller than my Aurora MCE torch, not to mention more usable modes and better over-all run time. I lose a little throw with the XR-E reflector I use on my drop-in but this gives me a better beam pattern for helmet use. The Aurora did have better throw on high but until a better/more compact optic comes along to focus the the P-7/MCE led's I intend to continue using the XP-G for helmet duties. Besides, in my case I'm running more than enough light on the bars to compensate.

FWIW...I just ordered another XP-G Ultrafire torch from D/'X. I thought I might try running two on the helmet. I figure for $18 it's worth a shot.



urbanseeds said:


> Can anyone recommend a DE lamp that takes AA or AAA, not interested in the 18650 or CR battery models. Need a light that I can get batteries at any backcountry store. I would like a light with about 10-12 hour run time. Lumen output is not as critical as long run time is. Needs to be functional, so lumen output needs to be 50-100.
> 
> Anybody have an recommendations while they were searching the DE website?


Look this stuff over. You might get good use out of a Dinotte 200L that uses 4 x AA. Look around, you might find one used at a good price.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

terratec said:


> I say, If you want big honking light then it is wiser to spend just alittle more($40-50) and get something more quality. Lots of lumens, whatever the model at the lowest prices means, they cut corners more on the rest of the flashlight somewhere and the light comes into whole question. eg. heat


I'm quite happy with my choice, thank you. Plus, I really don't care about heat all that much. Does the light work? Does it last long enough? Then I'm good.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Terratec, you say the P7's have a "clunky head" and they are all "too long"??

Some of the lights you linked have larger heads and are longer then my P7 !

And you keep talking about the "quality". _Most_ of those lights on DX are in the same general league. It's not like you're comparing a $25 DX light against a $75 Fenix light.

As far you the heat that you keep mentioning about the P7's, are you carrying it in your hand while riding???


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

terratec said:


> Bottomline: Nice light but since I have the SKYRAY S-R5 Cree XPG-R4 5-Mode 320-Lumen Memory LED Flashlight (SKU 32749) I like this SKYRAY better. The SKYRAY is also about half the price of this MTE.


more like 3/4 of the price, not half, (or $6.90, $28 vs. $21). the light you're talking about has a better price, but virtually the same weight, same length, and somewhere in the range of around 40-50% fewer lumens, which i think counts at high speeds. its a difference between knowing what is ahead of you versus seeing something and still trying to make it out when you are right on it.

what do you think of sku 35076 or 15335 as alternatives? even better savings, and virtually the same lm output as that skyray. but having experienced the higher mode output versus the output i get on mid mode, i wouldn't want my mid mode to be the peak light output for me, especially over less than a 10 spot.

i guess if someone was using this thread as a reference, i just feel like i wouldn't steer them in those lower lumen output lights for a few dollars saved, unless their budget was stupid tight.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

I will digress. I agree with all your points . They all suffer heat issues to a degree.  

Most MTB'ers' are using 2 lights anyways. I don't need 1200 lumens.

It was my personal choice for me. I just think it smarter to use the more efficient LED's.


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

terratec said:


> I will digress. I agree with all your points .
> 
> .


:thumbsup: totally what i was going for


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

Peace offerings.

A MCE (BIN M) Ultrafire 501b body for £20
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39359~r.72863811

A MCE (BIN K) 502b body $22
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39736

and a compromise

Use 2 lights. P7 for lots of flood with a XP-G for lots of throw.


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

terratec said:


> Peace offerings.
> 
> A MCE (BIN M) Ultrafire 501b body for £20
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39359~r.72863811
> ...


nice claimed run times - and very nice weights. good finds there! i might pick one of these up for test.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

terratec said:


> Peace offerings.
> 
> A MCE (BIN M) Ultrafire 501b body for £20
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39359~r.72863811
> ...


There is also a P-7 drop-in as well. The MC-E K-bin drop-in didn't get real good reviews. The MC-E M-bin drop-in is getting mixed reviews. Basically if you get an MC-E in a drop-in I don't think the beam pattern is going to be as nice as what you get in a standard torch that uses a screw-in pill. Smaller reflectors work better with smaller emitters. Drop-ins are also not as good as a standard torch because the standard torch ( with pill ) can transfer the heat better to the outside of the torch. This is real important in applications where the drive current exceeds 1 amp as is the case with the MCE, P-7..etc. Anyway, there was a lot of disagreement among the reviewers as to what the max current value actually was when using the MC-E drop-in. *_Another factor to consider with drop-ins is that sometimes you don't get good electrical contact with the drop-in._ This can lessen current to the LED making it not as bright as it should be. ( * this is sometimes also true of standard torches as well ) ( * note: I take my P-60 host apart all the time to make sure that all electrical contacts are as clean and tight as they can be. Believe me, it makes a big difference )

Now with all this said, I do own a very nice SST-50 drop-in that works very well with my Ultrafire P-60 host. ( WF-401B ) It provides a very nice/bright beam somewhere in the 500-550 lumen range. Runtimes were very similar to what you get with P-7's and MC-E's.
Until I got my XP-G drop-in I was using the SST-50 for helmet duties but DANG It!, the XP-G beats it for throw. The sad part was that the SST-50 drop-in was about $45 when I bought it. Now they are even more.

Once again, bottom line: It isn't always how much light an emitter can produce that makes it useful. It is how much light is produced coupled with what can be done with that light using the available optic/reflectors for said emitter. Right now, XP-G seems to win this contest because of better available optics/reflectors. This is why 2 x XP-G can beat the pants off a single MC-E drop-in. At least IMO.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

terratec said:


> Peace offerings.
> 
> A MCE (BIN M) Ultrafire 501b body for £20
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39359~r.72863811
> ...


Got the MCE M bins for 3 months now. Works great. Just ordered another one a week ago.

Switch the reflector with a smooth one, the stock reflector is floody.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5937

Also, make sure you use aluminum pop can shims for heatsinking.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mrbubbles said:


> Got the MCE M bins for 3 months now. Works great. Just ordered another one a week ago.
> 
> Switch the reflector with a smooth one, the stock reflector is floody.
> 
> ...


You would think that someone would have made a made-to-order after-market shim for P-60's by now!.  Still, I might have to give your idea a try. Some have used rolled Aluminum foil but I think bent ( wedge/ spring-like ) shims would transfer heat better. The hard part is getting them to make good contact on both sides to get decent heat transference. Messing with home made shims would be a PITA though.

On the up side my D/X order is on the way.  It should be here in about 12 days.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> You would think that someone would have made a made-to-order after-market shim for P-60's by now!.  Still, I might have to give your idea a try. Some have used rolled Aluminum foil but I think bent ( wedge/ spring-like ) shims would transfer heat better. The hard part is getting them to make good contact on both sides to get decent heat transference. Messing with home made shims would be a PITA though.
> 
> On the up side my D/X order is on the way.  It should be here in about 12 days.


$20 for a MC-E M Bin flashlight, made-to-order shims are silly, aluminum from pop cans are easy. Shove enough aluminum pop can strips in there, it's pretty much a wedge/spring-like. It's a better shim than the aluminum foil imo.

Other than that, I love the flashlight, it's great. Lighter, brighter, cheaper, and smaller than my P7. What's not to like? Having two or three wouldn't hurt, they're so cheap.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

I just ordered the MCE Bin M 501b as well. I'll be interested to see how it works out and if it needs the shims. I plan on using it as a second/backup light for trail riding and for commuting during the winter.

A MCE (BIN M) Ultrafire 501b body for £20
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.d...359~r.72863811


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mrbubbles said:


> $20 for a MC-E M Bin flashlight, made-to-order shims are silly, aluminum from pop cans are easy. Shove enough aluminum pop can strips in there, it's pretty much a wedge/spring-like. It's a better shim than the aluminum foil imo.
> 
> Other than that, I love the flashlight, it's great. Lighter, brighter, cheaper, and smaller than my P7. What's not to like? Having two or three wouldn't hurt, they're so cheap.


Well I tried a couple pieces of strip aluminum and was having a bit of a problem. After two unsuccessful tries the larger spring came off the drop-in. I slid it back on but now it rattles a little. At first I thought it was the shims that rattled but after I took them out it still rattled.  Not to mention every time I take the module out I have to check the adjustment on the reflector ( as I have mine dialed in so to speak ). Wish I had a little thermal grease to help keep the shims in place ( as well as the spring ). I might have to check out the local Radio shack to see what they have available. I just really wonder though if it really is going to make a difference. :skep:

Heck, I thought the custom machined shim idea was a good idea.  Ah, just had a brain storm. I think I'll use my old R2 drop-in to to help get the fit right. No sense in taking a chance with XP-G anymore until I get it right. Just wish I did this before the Spring came off the XPG. A minor issue perhaps but I hate annoying little noises. I got to stop that rattle.  ( edit: hummm....maybe I'll try taking the spring off and see if it stops rattling )


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> There is also a P-7 drop-in as well. The MC-E K-bin drop-in didn't get real good reviews. The MC-E M-bin drop-in is getting mixed reviews. Basically if you get an MC-E in a drop-in I don't think the beam pattern is going to be as nice as what you get in a standard torch that uses a screw-in pill. Smaller reflectors work better with smaller emitters. Drop-ins are also not as good as a standard torch because the standard torch ( with pill ) can transfer the heat better to the outside of the torch. This is real important in applications where the drive current exceeds 1 amp as is the case with the MCE, P-7..etc. Anyway, there was a lot of disagreement among the reviewers as to what the max current value actually was when using the MC-E drop-in. *_Another factor to consider with drop-ins is that sometimes you don't get good electrical contact with the drop-in._ This can lessen current to the LED making it not as bright as it should be. ( * this is sometimes also true of standard torches as well ) ( * note: I take my P-60 host apart all the time to make sure that all electrical contacts are as clean and tight as they can be. Believe me, it makes a big difference )
> 
> Now with all this said, I do own a very nice SST-50 drop-in that works very well with my Ultrafire P-60 host. ( WF-401B ) It provides a very nice/bright beam somewhere in the 500-550 lumen range. Runtimes were very similar to what you get with P-7's and MC-E's.
> Until I got my XP-G drop-in I was using the SST-50 for helmet duties but DANG It!, the XP-G beats it for throw. The sad part was that the SST-50 drop-in was about $45 when I bought it. Now they are even more.
> ...


Not looked at P7 drop-in as the MCE appears to be the brightest.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but from what i heard, I am surprised you recommend a SST-50 in a P60 body due to high amps, excessive heat. Very low runtime for 1x18650. I considered the MCE would be at the limit and make a very good drop-in with some practical runtime(1x18650 90 mins). If you mean, running a battery pack, then less of an issue.

If you can afford it for a better investment($35). I consider for nearer to genuine 500 higher value lumens, maximum runtime with low heat using 1x18650 etc. The Thrunite XP-G P60 drop-in does 493 lumens!(higher than SST-50 possibly?) at 1.5A(low heat). http://www.thrunite.com/productsweb/3 Mode Drop-in.html (MCE is around 2 i believe). It appears some P7's only give out 400 genuine lumens. This would well explain why XP-G looks nearly as bright.

I think a good value setup for 1 or 2x18650(my requirements-no helmet or battery pack) would be get 2x SolarForce L2 or L2M bodys(good quality body), alot cheaper than the torches complete with extension tube for option to run 2x18650 with the XP-G MCE drop-in. There appears to be better drop-in's than the DX one. 
This is probably old news to the experienced here.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

mrbubbles said:


> Got the MCE M bins for 3 months now. Works great. Just ordered another one a week ago.
> 
> Switch the reflector with a smooth one, the stock reflector is floody.
> 
> ...


One review said it brighter than a P7. ?


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

So, I'm curious where do you put the aluminum shims in for heat transfer on the MCE M Bin?


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

Wrap the reflector module (silver on the left) with shims then insert it from the top. Close it with the lens cap on the far right.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

terratec said:


> Not looked at P7 drop-in as the MCE appears to be the brightest.
> 
> Correct me if i'm wrong, but from what i heard, I am surprised you recommend a SST-50 in a P60 body due to high amps, excessive heat. Very low runtime for 1x18650. I considered the MCE would be at the limit and make a very good drop-in with some practical runtime(1x18650 90 mins). If you mean, running a battery pack, then less of an issue.
> 
> ...


Actually, the SST-50 is suppose to reach the 600L around 1.75A mark. It is also a single die vs. the MC-E with is multi-die. Not a big deal if you want a flood beam but the SST-50 will not not have die lines in the beam pattern if you can find a reflector big enough. I have a old Aurora MC-E torch that I've thought of fitting with a SST-50. The thing that stopped me was the fact that the torch doesn't come apart so I can gain access to the pill. The SST-50 ( and 90 ) are both designed to handle high levels of current ( up to 5A I believe for SST-50 ). Regardless, if you run either the SST-50 or the MCE around 2.5A you will get a similar output. Once again optics and heat sinking come into play but a 50 should be better at handling heat.

Very interesting that XP-G drop-in at 1.5A. However the link is just an ad link...no sales. I did a brief look-around on the web. The only one I found that sold it was this place. Sold out unfortunately.  If you know a place that _actually has the item_ that would be nice. I'm not sure though how well it would work in my torch host @ 1.5A. The one I have gets real hot if left on and I'm not moving. Still, if I find one it will most likely be on my upcoming Santa list. Anyway, FWIW the ones I use are from Kaidomain.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

here you can find some high quality custom made 1.4/1.5A P60 dropins...

Nailbender & Anto


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

clarkenstein said:


> i just got out on my new set up last night.
> 
> i'm using this:
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22567
> ...


I stole your idea and ordered a sf-15 light, batteries and charger that you linked. I am not going to use it on the bike actually as I already have that more than covered, but I need a decent flashlight. I only have a Coleman 115 lumen 2 aa flashlight right now and it doesn't even give dimming options. I am in desperate need of a halfway decent flashlight. This seems like a good start. I can strap my 1750 lumen Lupine Betty to the headband and use that, but it is not as convenient as just grabbing a flashlight by the door and going outside or bringing with me in the car.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MaximusHQ said:


> I stole your idea and ordered a sf-15 light, batteries and charger that you linked. I am not going to use it on the bike actually as I already have that more than covered, but I need a decent flashlight. I only have a Coleman 115 lumen 2 aa flashlight right now and it doesn't even give dimming options. I am in desperate need of a halfway decent flashlight. This seems like a good start. I can strap my 1750 lumen Lupine Betty to the headband and use that, but it is not as convenient as just grabbing a flashlight by the door and going outside or bringing with me in the car.


Max, Once you get this torch you're going to be kicking yourself in the butt for not ordering a bar mount at the same time. Yeah, I know...you've got the nice Super-duper Lupines for Super night time bike riding. That's all good, I've got some nice lights too BUT...You're going to have days when all you really want is a normal day ride. Nevertheless on some of those days ( when the days start getting shorter ) you might end up running a little late getting back or perhaps a mechanical problem or flat has you racing the sun. Most really powerful light systems use a good size battery and do weigh a bit not to mention take up some room in your bag ( that is unless you ride in the day with your lights already mounted ). You would hate to have to carry all of your good stuff ( Lupines in this case ) and then end up not needing them. Well, perhaps that doesn't bother you but if it does....It is so easy to throw a light-weight torch in the ol' bike bag for those, "Just in case moments". Since I am a dedicated "Night person" most of my rides aren't going to start until the afternoon. If I think I might get back just as it starts getting dark, I'll usually throw a couple torches in the bag ( for J-I-Case ) and I know I'm good. For me the good lights are reserved for those "In the dark 2hrs+" rides. ( *Note: the only exception to that rule would be if I was riding some really knarly stuff that included some really technical H-speed downhills. Only then would I bring out the good stuff for a planned late/ day ride. )



Whitedog1 said:


> here you can find some high quality custom made 1.4/1.5A P60 dropins...
> 
> Nailbender & Anto


Yep, some of that Nailbender stuff looks nice. I think the 1.5A ones though are using drivers with a higher maximum input voltage. The 1.4A ones are a little lower @ 6 volts but I'd rather use one designed to work with the standard 4.2 volts max provided by most 18650 cells. I'm not saying the others wouldn't work but the efficiency would likely drop once the cell gets below 4 volts.

Wow, NBender is making a duel XPG drop-in...very cool. Has a donut hole in the beam but damn I bet that thing is bright. ( ea. at ~ 1.2A ...:eekster: )

I don't really hang out much over on CPF because there is just SO MUCH STUFF! :lol: 
Umm....it seems the Gurus over there are "Potting" the drop-ins using copper tape and thermal epoxy". This is something I just have to find out more about. This would really give you "Great" heat sinking, especially if you are using a drop-in that produces a lot of heat. Thumbsup Whitedog for that link. :thumbsup:


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

Did a late evening into night ride yesterday and used a universal rubber mount + SF 15 flashlight on my riding buddy's helmet (she doesn't have a light), it worked fine.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Max, Once you get this torch you're going to be kicking yourself in the butt for not ordering a bar mount at the same time. Yeah, I know...you've got the nice Super-duper Lupines for Super night time bike riding. That's all good, I've got some nice lights too BUT...You're going to have days when all you really want is a normal day ride. Nevertheless on some of those days ( when the days start getting shorter ) you might end up running a little late getting back or perhaps a mechanical problem or flat has you racing the sun. Most really powerful light systems use a good size battery and do weigh a bit not to mention take up some room in your bag ( that is unless you ride in the day with your lights already mounted ). You would hate to have to carry all of your good stuff ( Lupines in this case ) and then end up not needing them. Well, perhaps that doesn't bother you but if it does....It is so easy to throw a light-weight torch in the ol' bike bag for those, "Just in case moments". Since I am a dedicated "Night person" most of my rides aren't going to start until the afternoon. If I think I might get back just as it starts getting dark, I'll usually throw a couple torches in the bag ( for J-I-Case ) and I know I'm good. For me the good lights are reserved for those "In the dark 2hrs+" rides. ( *Note: the only exception to that rule would be if I was riding some really knarly stuff that included some really technical H-speed downhills. Only then would I bring out the good stuff for a planned late/ day ride. )


Yup that is a good point. I don't like to haul my Lupines around with me all the time and I should have ordered a bar mount for the flashlight too. Well when the light arrives and I decide I like it I might have to place another order for the bar mount and I might have to get another flashlight too.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> So, I'm curious where do you put the aluminum shims in for heat transfer on the MCE M Bin?


Okay I found this over on CPF. Scroll down a bit and they describe how to "Shim and Pot" a P-60 drop-in.
You can use home-made shims but I think I'll go the brass tape route. The directions are spot on. Now I just have to find the brass tape. More than likely Radio shack should have this but if not I can always order it over the web.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I use sliced up cans of pop wrapped around, sand off the paint and stuff first though before you cut the can up.

Got 3 of those cheap Flood to Zoom torches on order hoping for a Sylvia L1 style output so a perfect spot with zero spill and adjustable spot size, but we shall see, looks like they'll throw though and be useful for night time paint balling if so


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Whitedog1 said:


> here you can find some high quality custom made 1.4/1.5A P60 dropins...
> 
> Nailbender & Anto


Looks like I'm quoting you again..

I just did the same test tail-cap test that Anto did but on the Kaidomain 5-mode XP-G R5 that I already own. On full charge, 1.29A, not bad for a little $13 drop-in. I guess that helps explain why I love my little XPG drop-in so much. Output should be very close to 400 lumen. Once I get the module shimmed and potted, hopefully the output will be more consistent. Right now if I run it for more than a couple minutes I can tell the output is dropping, no doubt from the excess heat.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I've got a XP-G only rate them bar mounted though there to floody for head useage, I've got a 2nd 1 on order though to replace my ageing and raplidly loosing power P60 MC-E drop in.

Still no joy delivery wise on those Flood to Zoom cheap torches hopefully I'll have them in time for next summer


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

I still not convinced about SST-50 in a P60. On high power it soon switch down to a lower light level once the heat takes hold. Might as well run the MCE i say

eg.

MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________478.5__,___3 sec_______,
MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________416.8__,__30 sec_______,
MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________471.0__,__60 sec_______,
MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________467.3__,_120 sec_______,
MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________422.4__,_180 sec_______,
MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________390.7__,_240 sec_______,.

Single mode drop-ins can be brighter than multi mode types but If you want to run with more than 1 battery then check the maximum voltage is high enough.



Cat-man-do said:


> Very interesting that XP-G drop-in at 1.5A. However the link is just an ad link...no sales. I did a brief look-around on the web. The only one I found that sold it was this place. Sold out unfortunately.  If you know a place that _actually has the item_ that would be nice. I'm not sure though how well it would work in my torch host @ 1.5A. The one I have gets real hot if left on and I'm not moving. Still, if I find one it will most likely be on my upcoming Santa list. Anyway, FWIW the ones I use are from Kaidomain.


http://www.illuminationgear.com/145071.html

http://www.dereelight.com/module-list.htm is another recommended for decent P60 drop-ins. They also do the smooth reflectors.

http://www.sbflashlights.com/Thrunite-Dropins/Thrunite-XPG-3-Mode-4-0-13V-Dropin-p66.html

http://flashlightconnection.com

http://www.batteryjunction.com/p60-dropin.html


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

_the http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22569 which appears to come with the same driver as sku.22569, has been returned to DX and swapped against sku.19767, because of the crappy driver in 22567. I ordered sku.22567 before mostly because it (says that it) comes with a D-bin P7, but it only took about 2 to 3 hours for the driver to blow out. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.19767 should be immune against such failure._


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

terratec said:


> I still not convinced about SST-50 in a P60. On high power it soon switch down to a lower light level once the heat takes hold. Might as well run the MCE i say....
> 
> ....Single mode drop-ins can be brighter than multi mode types but If you want to run with more than 1 battery then check the maximum voltage is high enough.
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to defend the SST-50 but take a look at the data sheet. At 4A you can get 1200 Lumens out of the best bin. As long as you can sink the heat it should work fine. I should also note that some real high dollar torches are using the SST-50 & 90. Most of those though would be unsuitable for MTB use as they are quite big ( large reflector/heat sink and long 2-cell battery tube.) ...but back to the SST-50 drop-in: The one I have I am using in an older Ultrafire host WF-401B. I had a feeling that it was not working properly so I ran a ( at the switch ) current test. Damn! It was only drawing 970ma on high. Output wasn't bad though, likely around 500L. Anywho, I decided to try the drop-in in my newer WF-401B...Goodness! :eekster: Output is much better! This time it is drawing 1.5A at the end cap. I hate to say this but it is still under-powered! :lol: Still, the output looks more like 600L and is very Cree-like in tint, somewhat neutral white with a medium width beam. If I get a chance tonight I'll try a run time test in the newer host. Can't wait to try this on the helmet again. No wonder the XP-G looked like it was blowing it's doors off. Since this drop-in is being under-driven so to speak I really don't think heat ( lumen ) loss is going to be a big issue. Push-come-to-shove, the MC-E drop-in looks to be the better deal at half price ( as long as there are no artifacts in the beam ) and the output is in the 600L range. Which will run longer?...Uh...I don't own a MCE drop-in so I can't tell Ya.

Now about those XP-G drop-in links... The ThruNite looks to be the best bet deal...1.5A @ 4.2 volt max input. Just keep in mind the more heat sinking you have the brighter it will be for longer periods. Be careful what you buy. If you buy one rated 7.2 to 12 volt max, you need to understand that this will not work as well in a torch designed to run with one 18650.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

urbanseeds said:


> Can anyone recommend a DE lamp that takes AA or AAA, not interested in the 18650 or CR battery models. Need a light that I can get batteries at any backcountry store. I would like a light with about 10-12 hour run time. Lumen output is not as critical as long run time is. Needs to be functional, so lumen output needs to be 50-100.
> 
> Anybody have an recommendations while they were searching the DE website?


http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.28546
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10727
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.18305
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.44620
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22930

These X2000 lights are variable flood/throw.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13732

Not DE but
http://www.lightake.com/detail.do/sku.Romisen_RC_C8_LED_Flashlight_Black_-29416
http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=9567

Alternatively get a cheap Solarforce AAA or AA body(L2r L2i models) and add the P60 drop in.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Solarforce-L2r-...=UCI&otn=3&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=759396600129327


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Thanks Terratec, I've got 3 Zooming Flashlights on order from DX with no sign of delivery so ordered your 1 from Kaidomain, see if there any quicker I guess, a large spot of light with no waste going to spill sounds ideal for head useage.

Especially if you can tune how big you want the spot to suite then likely Glue it to stop it changing mid ride.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> My favorite bar torch to date is this one > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12060
> I use it with this torch holder > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15342
> This P-7 torch is the best one I have. It works flawlessly,has a nice wide spill and lots of throw.


I now have the sku.12060. It BRIGHT but for me there's way too much spill from the flood that could be more useable. Due to the big flood it looks brighter at close range, making my old MTE look dull. I can see 2 of these being good but would like more throw.

I will keep it and try one of these with it. 
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.33549
(I'm sure 2 of these would do very nice for the road.)


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> Most of those though would be unsuitable for MTB use as they are quite big ( large reflector/heat sink and long 2-cell battery tube.


I thought a large reflector is what gives a good flood. They are in the powerful HID lights.



Cat-man-do said:


> Now about those XP-G drop-in links... The ThruNite looks to be the best bet deal...1.5A @ 4.2 volt max input. Just keep in mind the more heat sinking you have the brighter it will be for longer periods. Be careful what you buy. If you buy one rated 7.2 to 12 volt max, you need to understand that this will not work as well in a torch designed to run with one 18650.


That's why i go with the 3.7-8.4v, enough for 2x18650.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Larger reflector focuses more of the light into a tighter spot if the reflector is good and fitted correctly.

How do you fit 2x's 18650 into your torch ?? I find the output of anything rated over 4.2V area weak unless your running CR123a's then the run time is feeble so I only buy 18650 only torches.

2 x 18650's would help with P7's and the like as you could draw the full on 2.8Ah draw from 2, where are you limited to 1.6Ah - 1.8Ah after a few mins with 1 cell.

Tempted by 1 of these babys :-

http://www.bestofferbuy.com/aurora-...men-memory-led-flashlight-118650-p-53485.html

You can remove the filter on the LED for a tighter spot could make for a great head torch, I'll wait and see how the Convex lenses work first though.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

Back on the thread topic  .

From looking at the beam patterns on http://fonarevka.ru/ It would seem UltraFire WF-1000L http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.18475 would make a bright awesome flood/throw combination just on it's own. Excellent runtime, but a strong contender to convert to a head unit.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Shame it's the lower powered K Bin and limted to 1800ma's which is what a single 18650 does anyway they could of ran that ( likely heat issues stopping them ) at the full 2.8Ah, but the main issue is it's heavy and most of the weight is in the front so on your bars it'll keep rotating forwards and way to heavy for head useage, you could run 2 regular P7/MC-E's on your head for the same weight.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

More often than not, i want my lights to run bright, longer than an hour, so I have now weighed up that it's not worth considering alot of the cheap MCE P7 type torches that run at the higher amps. That is why it's another vote for the SF-13 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22567 that runs at 2.2A. Going on the principle it dims from battery life more before it dims from heat. It has a better beam pattern than 12060 which happens to be one of the floodiest.

So i am back at the start again. On the basis of getting decent brightness/value. A SF-13 and good XP-G R5 should make the ideal accompaniment for a nice combination of flood/beam. The SF-13 will fade before the XP-G but the XP-G is there to provide the longer run time.

Possibly and/or add in a combination of cheap X2000 flood to throw types as extra backup for more flood/throw or just get another XP-G R5.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

clarkenstein said:


> nice claimed run times - and very nice weights. good finds there! i might pick one of these up for test.


Estimated initial lumens is 580. At that price it's a hard argument for the others.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> I'm not trying to defend the SST-50 but take a look at the data sheet. At 4A you can get 1200 Lumens out of the best bin. As long as you can sink the heat it should work fine. I should also note that some real high dollar torches are using the SST-50 & 90. Most of those though would be unsuitable for MTB use as they are quite big ( large reflector/heat sink and long 2-cell battery tube.) ...but back to the SST-50 drop-in: The one I have I am using in an older Ultrafire host WF-401B. I had a feeling that it was not working properly so I ran a ( at the switch ) current test. Damn! It was only drawing 970ma on high. Output wasn't bad though, likely around 500L. Anywho, I decided to try the drop-in in my newer WF-401B...Goodness! :eekster: Output is much better! This time it is drawing 1.5A at the end cap. I hate to say this but it is still under-powered! :lol: Still, the output looks more like 600L and is very Cree-like in tint, somewhat neutral white with a medium width beam. If I get a chance tonight I'll try a run time test in the newer host. Can't wait to try this on the helmet again. No wonder the XP-G looked like it was blowing it's doors off. Since this drop-in is being under-driven so to speak I really don't think heat ( lumen ) loss is going to be a big issue. Push-come-to-shove, the MC-E drop-in looks to be the better deal at half price ( as long as there are no artifacts in the beam ) and the output is in the 600L range. Which will run longer?...Uh...I don't own a MCE drop-in so I can't tell Ya.


I hear what your saying. Alot more potential if you heatsink it good. 1 die and better beam quality. If you can justify the extra expense over the others then worth it. Personally i don't need that much light at the cost of less runtime, XP-G should suffice. I think for those who can make there own heatsinks then good for on a budget. What you think to this budget SST-50? http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.33615 
I think the Solarforce L2X(regular size) would make a awesome body for the SST50 or any other drop-in. The design is meant to allow better heat dissipation.

At what length do bar torches become too long to be completely unacceptable? I see some 2x18650 just a couple of inches longer. This is why i still interested in the Solarforce body idea with the extension tube including the plus factor of all the addons.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

The SST-50 looks good to me, if not for a total of 4 zooming torches on order ( could cancel ) for ages I'd be ordering myself 1 of them, the weight would just about be acceptable on it's own on my head.

XP-G's are a bit floody better for Bar useage, better off with a XP-E R2 on your head.

I'm hoping the floods will make the perfect head mounted torches, with 2 on my helmet, if not Xmas presents for a few mates


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

terratec said:


> I hear what your saying. Alot more potential if you heatsink it good. 1 die and better beam quality. If you can justify the extra expense over the others then worth it. Personally i don't need that much light at the cost of less runtime, XP-G should suffice. I think for those who can make there own heatsinks then good for on a budget. *What you think to this budget SST-50? http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.33615
> I think the Solarforce L2X(regular size) would make a awesome body for the SST50 or any other drop-in. The design is meant to allow better heat dissipation.*
> 
> *At what length do bar torches become too long to be completely unacceptable? I see some 2x18650 just a couple of inches longer. This is why i still interested in the Solarforce body idea with the extension tube including the plus factor of all the addons*.


The 33615 you linked to looks like a nice torch. Since it is an Aurora torch I have no doubt that it is well designed to sink the heat. The reviews sound good as well. I would love to know how well this torch compares to the SF-15. Unfortunately it is quite a bit more money than than any of the P-7 torches. Hopefully someone else on forum will buy one and be able to compare it to the P-7 torches...I hope.

Like you I have considered a better quality drop-in host. The Solarforce looks nice and is not too expensive, and yes it does offer a extension tube. Personally, I'm not interested in an extension tube because any drop-in I buy will be setup to work only on 4.2 volts. I don't think having too long a torch on the bars is a good thing. The extra length would make them more heavy and more cumbersome. Not to mention more prone to shaking. At some point I will try another drop-in host but for the time being the Ultrafire WF-401B sits perfectly on my helmet without any adaption needed at all and it's cheap.  Since emitters are being used now that heat up a good bit I'm really hoping someone will design a host that is better adapted ( with out having to use shims ) for heat sinking purposes.


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## FatNoob (Aug 3, 2010)

I had been looking for beam shot comparisons of the many P7 torches but could not.

So I went ahead and ordered 3 three P7s that seemed to look good to me. I have not seen 1 suggestion for the SpiderFire so I hope it is OK. Since I needed to outfit my brother and I with back up lights and hope to have a "lender".

Here the 3 that I ordered and hope to get some compare photos of:

MTE SSC P7 (sku.12623)
SpiderFire SSC P7 (sku.19767)
MTE SF-15 SSC (sku.22567)


Has anyone else done a side by side compare of these products?


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I've got the SF15, very white output and very bright the brighest of the ones I've got, prefer it for bar mounted use but it's better than most on your head to.

I had the 12623 to, the plastic reflector got heat damaged and lowered it's output drastically, so I've avoid that 1 personally.

Yep I've had a lot of torches!!


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

I just ordered an SF15 to test for purposes of night riding evangelism for my friends. I want to try it on its own on the xc trails around here before I recommend it. I think $50 a kit shouldn't be too hard for my riding buddies to swallow so they can keep riding with me on weeknights


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

My D/X order arrived a week early...Woo Hoo!  

Three new torches....SF-15, WF-401B with XP-E drop-in and a cheap 9-led.

My first impressions of the SF-15. Very bright torch, brighter than any of my other torches. I am though a little disappointed. I was expecting this torch to have a more narrow beam but such in not the case. In fact is it more a flood than any of my other torches. Regardless this will make it very impressive and useful as a bar mounted torch. The spill is much wider than my others and much brighter. I think most people will love the beam pattern. It still has decent throw and is a whiter beam. I think on high it might be close to 650-700L. The mid-level is impressive as well and looks to be around 250-300L, a very useful mid-level.

This torch does heat up quite quickly. A quick tail-cap current check revealed that on high the torch is drawing around 2.5A. This is much more than any other P-7 torch I have and explains why it is getting hot so fast. To provide that much heat the driver must be working very hard and I'm not so sure that is a good thing but only time will tell when I start using it. The construction quality of the SF-15 is questionable. When I opened up the top I noticed that the emitter is sitting on top of a board/platform that appears to be loose. Thinking that I might be able to tighten it and provide better heat sinking I tried to rotate it C-wise. WRONG IDEA! When I turned it back on bad things happened. It got dimmer and I smelled burnt wires. I quickly turned it off and returned it to it's before position. Whew!...Whatever you do don't mess with the emitter! Hopefully I didn't do serious damage to mine. All seems to be well for the time being. Lastly, the threads on this torch are not as smooth as i would have wanted but this is not unusual for a torch like this. 

Compared to my all time favorite torch the SKU- 12060, it is not as well constructed. However the 12060 draws only around 2A at the cap, doesn't heat up the slightest and has no issues. SF-15 is definitely brighter, has a wider/ Whiter/ brighter beam. At this point I can't say for sure which I like more until I take the SF-15 out on a trail. My major worry with the SF-15 is that the driver is going to burn out or that the emitter will lose output to heat issues. I sure hope I am wrong about that but as hot as it gets I'm almost afraid to do a run-time test.

I'll post up after I take the SF-15 on a night ride. Dang it, it's starting to get cool where I live. I'd rather it still be warm so I can tell how well it handles the heat.


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

so last night i took my SF-15 out solo, in pretty wet conditions. i totally forgot my other torch, so i ended up using the SF-15 on the helmet instead of on the bars.

overall it was good as a helmet light. decent throw, lots of spill. i used it on high the entire ride which was definitely over an hour and a half. output was good. it was a slower ride since it was very slick. it was misting the whole time with occasional periods of solid rain and it didn't short out or anything. in the last 30 minutes of the ride or so, i thought my light was dimming. i didn't change the battery since i knew we were close to the end of the ride, but the light stopped dimming and just held a lower level anyway.

it turns out, the light wasn't dimming, the lense had fogged and had some good sized water drops on the _inside_ of the lense. i was in a solid rain at times, and i know the light does not claim to be water resistant/proof, but if you do take it out in wetter conditions, i would do some customizing to help keep water out. i kind of expected what happened with the mist and rain, but just figured i would throw it out there. like i said, it never shorted which is a big positive. i took it home, took it apart, let it dry overnight, tossed in a battery and its back to its formal bright-a$$ self.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> I just ordered the MCE Bin M 501b as well. I'll be interested to see how it works out and if it needs the shims. I plan on using it as a second/backup light for trail riding and for commuting during the winter.
> 
> A MCE (BIN M) Ultrafire 501b body for £20
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.d...359~r.72863811


Just cancelled my order to DX, after two weeks of "waiting for supplier". I'd rather not wait that long, and it sounds like the SKU 12060 is a better built light. Any final suggestions for a good floody torch for the bars. I already have a MS900 for my helmet.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

DX especially in the months upto Xmas is a order it, forget about it and 1 day you'll get a nice surprise in your post, nearly 3 weeks on a order here with no dispatch as yet


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## FatNoob (Aug 3, 2010)

Turveyd said:


> DX especially in the months upto Xmas is a order it, forget about it and 1 day you'll get a nice surprise in your post, nearly 3 weeks on a order here with no dispatch as yet


 I am hoping my order ships soon... I already have a friend wanting to "borrow" my Lender light. The more friends on a ride the more fun the ride and right now my friends dont have any spare cash to spend to test night riding. But if they could borrow a light and try it and find they like it they could spare the cash then...


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

This is the first time I ordered from DX. I didn't realize they were so incredibly slow at getting items shipped out. I hope it will be here before Christmas.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MaximusHQ said:


> This is the first time I ordered from DX. I didn't realize they were so incredibly slow at getting items shipped out. I hope it will be here before Christmas.


Yes, sometimes there is a wait. A couple weeks ago D/X ran a sale on select torches/items. At the same time there was a Fall/winter holiday that the Chinese celebrate that was going on. Not to mention that the days are getting shorter here and suddenly there was a mad rush ( in our hemisphere ) to buy all things light related. One of the items sure to slow up your order is batteries. When they run out they delay your order but usually just a week or so.

Patience my friends....Old Chinese proverb....good things happen to those who wait.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

Turveyd said:


> Larger reflector focuses more of the light into a tighter spot if the reflector is good and fitted correctly.
> 
> How do you fit 2x's 18650 into your torch ?? I find the output of anything rated over 4.2V area weak unless your running CR123a's then the run time is feeble so I only buy 18650 only torches.
> 
> 2 x 18650's would help with P7's and the like as you could draw the full on 2.8Ah draw from 2, where are you limited to 1.6Ah - 1.8Ah after a few mins with 1 cell.


Are you talking about rechargable CR123? It will be brighter with 2xCR123 over 1x18650. A disadvantage with CR123 is when battery life shorten, the light dims very quick. You can get the torches that take both.

The Ultrafire 504b is a Solarforce clone.

All the MCE-P7's are meant to be floody. I never had any of these issues. I never take them apart that's probably why. Some foil paper and thermal grease would no doubt help with the heat.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

This http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.35243 into this http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1317

Any issues? Too short runtime?


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

The Xenon will pump out Max 10 watts, so 20lumens area, yellow horrible light aswell, same run time as a P7 though as limited by batteries Max draw but for 2 cells so 75mins for 2 batterys, and 1/3rd the output of a P7 / MC-E which will do that with 1 cell.


That 5 thingy, would be awesome, you'll need 2 18650's really to use it so think so that'll get you 3.3Ah's max needs 5Ah to run proper so a pack of 4 to run proper which might over power it, run time will be the same as a P7 so 75mins area, but from 2 cells and it'll be a spot so best mounted on your helmet.

You'll have to put the batterys else where though as that will need a lot of sinking so WEIGHT on your head sadly.

Single cell would run at 350ma's per Q5, say 110 lumen x's 5 so 550lumens in a spot supper efficient and would suffer much less from heat.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

terratec said:


> This http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.35243 into this http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1317
> 
> Any issues? Too short runtime?


You didn't look hard enough.  I think this is what you want. Even so, too long IMO for bar use, way to heavy for helmet. As is ( 2-cells )you might get 1.25hr on high if you're lucky. I think the best thing to do would be to mod this by cutting off the battery tube then replacing the switch and wire in a 4-cell 7.4volt battery ( think MS battery ). The hardest part would be find a way to mount it to the bars ( way too big for helmet ).

This looks like a nice project but in the long run it might only be a little brighter than a MS and cost about the same once you buy a 4 cell battery. Ever since the MS came out not too many people talk about modding torches anymore.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

The 2 x smaller Zoom to Flood torches 160lumen quoted ( 250 on there site ) have shipped, should have them over the next week normally, 11days order to shipped, got another at 20days


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## FatNoob (Aug 3, 2010)

I placed an order on the 3rd and today is the 9th... 6 Days and my order has not been shipped or even filled yet. All items where listed As "In Stock: ships in 2 to 4 days" but as far as I can see they have not touched my order.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I got a chance tonight to try out the SF-15 on the trails. All things looked good. Bright white light with nice beam pattern. Also much more throw on high then what I expected. Medium mode was a winner as well. Low mode is somewhat lame, useful only for repair or walking speed.

At this point it will be hard for me to say which I like more, the SF-15 or the SKU12060. Both are great for MTB'in. The 12060 5-mode has a driver that doesn't use regular memory. If you turn it off it comes back on in medium mode regardless of what mode it was last in. I tend to like this a little better when using it with other lights. That's because I don't have to cycle through the stupid flash modes. The SF-15 though has true memory. Turn it off and comes back on in the last mode it was in. Unfortunately that means cycling through the flash modes if you want high if you're in the medium mode. The SF-15 though IS the brighter torch with a beam tint that is more eye friendly. Which one will be more useful (?) only time will tell.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

Turveyd said:


> The Xenon will pump out Max 10 watts, so 20lumens area, yellow horrible light aswell, same run time as a P7 though as limited by batteries Max draw but for 2 cells so 75mins for 2 batterys, and 1/3rd the output of a P7 / MC-E which will do that with 1 cell.
> 
> That 5 thingy, would be awesome, you'll need 2 18650's really to use it so think so that'll get you 3.3Ah's max needs 5Ah to run proper so a pack of 4 to run proper which might over power it, run time will be the same as a P7 so 75mins area, but from 2 cells and it'll be a spot so best mounted on your helmet.
> 
> ...


I picked out that torch body for a reason. The 5*cree fits and it 2x18650 already :smilewinkgrin: but your right about the heatsinking.



Cat-man-do said:


> You didn't look hard enough.  I think this is what you want. Even so, too long IMO for bar use, way to heavy for helmet. As is ( 2-cells )you might get 1.25hr on high if you're lucky. I think the best thing to do would be to mod this by cutting off the battery tube then replacing the switch and wire in a 4-cell 7.4volt battery ( think MS battery ). The hardest part would be find a way to mount it to the bars ( way too big for helmet ).
> 
> This looks like a nice project but in the long run it might only be a little brighter than a MS and cost about the same once you buy a 4 cell battery. Ever since the MS came out not too many people talk about modding torches anymore.


I saw that 1200 and was too long hence the Xenon at 8". I was looking at alternatives but complicating an already simple issue. I would just get a couple of these that take 2x18650 and be done with it used in combination with MTE. Cheap Big Light with more runtime and at what i consider the length limit to mount on the bars  http://www.lightake.com/detail.do/s...20_Lumen_LED_Flashlight_Black_(2x18650)-30647

I am least glad no talk of the MS for once. No big deal to carry a couple of spare batteries(if you don't use a battery pack) on your person if need be.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

terratec said:


> I picked out that torch body for a reason. The 5*cree fits and it 2x18650 already :smilewinkgrin: but your right about the heatsinking.....
> .....I saw that 1200 and was too long hence the Xenon at 8". I was looking at alternatives but complicating an already simple issue. I would just get a couple of these that take 2x18650 and be done with it used in combination with MTE. Cheap Big Light with more runtime and at what i consider the length limit to mount on the bars  http://www.lightake.com/detail.do/s...20_Lumen_LED_Flashlight_Black_(2x18650)-30647
> 
> I am least glad no talk of the MS for once. No big deal to carry a couple of spare batteries(if you don't use a battery pack) on your person if need be.


terratec, Take a look at the link I provided again. You will see that the torch, although set-up to hold 3 x 18650's can also work with just two. The torch disassembles into multi-pieces. You only use the pieces you want for the size you want. Anyway, from the photos it looks like a real thrower.

Also, thanks for that link to LighTake. Lots of nice little goodies on what I think is a D/X clone site. I found a couple items there that I have been looking around for for some time including a remote pressure switch for my P-7 torches. When I get those I won't have to take my hands off the bars to change modes ( hopefully).

I should also mention ( for the sake of others ) that they also sell an interesting Cree Q-5 version of the MS that looks a little smaller ( I think ) and runs off a 2 x 18650 battery pack. Cost is around $54. What makes this interesting is that I bet you could mod this with an XP-G real easy...food for thought.


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

Cat-man-do said:


> I got a chance tonight to try out the SF-15 on the trails. All things looked good... Which one will be more useful (?) only time will tell.


its a nice light right? i took mine out early Saturday morning again using it on the helmet and nothing on the bars. i was at a place that has very very tight twisty trails with little elevation gain/loss, and it worked out well. i have a feeling i'm going to be using this as my main light and the P7 as a backup when i'm at places like this. i am considering picking up another to have one on the bars and one on the helmet just to try it out.


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## FatNoob (Aug 3, 2010)

clarkenstein said:


> i took mine out early Saturday morning again using it *on the helmet* and nothing on the bars.


Can you tell me what you used to attach the "torch" to the helmet? Maybe even a couple of pictures?


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

FatNoob said:


> Can you tell me what you used to attach the "torch" to the helmet? Maybe even a couple of pictures?


sure check out page two of this thread for my first set up for the P7 on the helmet. there's a couple pics there.

since i forgot my one torch for the first time i took this light out solo, i ended up taking my handlebar mount of the bars and popped it on the top of the helmet. i dont have it with me at work but i'll take some pics tonight.

this is the mount i used for the handlebars (and now the helmet). i secured the torch using cable ties, just to make sure it doesn't pop out. i think helmet mounting all depends on your helmet type. i picked up a mount that some recommended in one of the threads on here, but it just didn't work for my giro xen:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8274

i took out the nut and used a zip tie to tighten it to the helmet. works great.


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## FatNoob (Aug 3, 2010)

Cat/Clarkenstein,

Am I understanding correctly that in your opinion the MTE SF-15 is better (for MTB use) than the MTE SSC P7?


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## paul64 (Apr 24, 2010)

I also succumbed to the DX path, like many of you I resent the prices of the commercial brands. For example my NiteRider 400 bar lights have a run time of 1hr45m on high and if I want to buy a back up battery I have to pay £120. For a battery. I mean it's ludicrous and I know all the R&D and distribution arguments, I am not suggesting NR are any better or worse than the other well known names by the way. My NRs have given me no problems riding on or off-road in foul weather, neither has my Exposure Joystick so you could take the view that you are paying heavily for the peace of mind of your lights not letting you down. However, the DX prices are too cheap to ignore.

A mate took a chance buying an Ultrafire 502b known as SKU36357, as mentioned in this thread. He was amazed by it, so I was I given that it cost GBP 13.80 and an 2400mah 18650 battery was about GBP 3.00 if memory serves me correctly. He bought another at the same time that I ordered 3 and another mate ordered the sister 501b Ultrafire. In my case I wanted two of these on the bars of my MTB secured using my Fenix mounts (all black version of the one shown early in this thread).

All 3 of my 502b, the 502b received by my mate and the 501b received by the other mate were DOA, they would light up on full power and then fade to a pale blue light after a few seconds with clearly burned out elements of the LEDs. I patiently followed the DX reporting and return procedure and returned them to China and then received 3 replacements. I might have given up except I knew how good my mate's first example was. Of the replacement batch 1 is fine, the other 2 were also DOA and so I am in the process of returning those too.

Point 1: There may be a problem with SKU36357 at present, it can't be a coincidence that 5 out of 6 I received were DOA and my mates have had at least one failure each of 502b and 501b. This makes for a frustrating experience, however the one that works is fantastic. 

Point 2: You need to know the amp draw of the torch to calculate battery run time as different 18650 batteries will give different results.

As I understand it, the power and battery life are a feature of the current draw and the battery capacity. This leaves the beam pattern, reflection and colour temperature to the side (to those who cna comment on them better than I). The 502b draws about 1400mah so if you use 2400mah (both meaning per hour) then 2400/1400 tells you you will get about 1hr 40m of run time. I am sure CatManDo cna epxlain it better than I if you are new to this.

Point 3: A real Eureka moment. The Exposure mount works with the 502b

The barrel of the 502b clips into an Exposure mount perfectly. As soon as I found this it meant I could use it on my helmet where it is more powerful than my Joystick. It also meant I could use it on my road bikes where I have an Exposure bar mount. Last week I rode on the road using the working 502b and Joystick in this way, changing them round between bar and helment to see which I preferred in which position. To be honest I preferred the 502b on both the bars and the helmet so when I have the other lights sorted I expect the Joystick will become a back pocket back-up along with the spare 18650 batteries.

Point 4: Another Eureka moment. The Exposure mount works with the MTE SF-15 too

My mate came over last night with the MTE SF-15 he took in place of his failed Ultrafire 502b. I can relate to CatManDo's comparitive comments about the MTE being better, thankfully these torches (when working) are so good you don't really mind which you use. 
I like the lower current draw of the 502b at 1400mah over the MTE SF-15 at 2600mah (or something in that region) because of the increased battery time. Using something like BRC 3600mah batteries will help of course. It was good to have two different lights side by side for a play

Point 5: These torches including battery are not heavy

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned weight. On our scales my mates and I separately make these torches something less than 200g including battery so even if you run a couple on the bars this are not much heavier than a Maxx D (less than a 6 pack) and comparitive with any number of the light + cabled battery pack options. Spare 18650 batteries in the Camelbak or back pocket don't weigh much.

Point 6: It's a good idea to weather-proof these torches

The point about water getting in is a good one and I am going to use a silicon sealant around the thread of the torch head, probably vaseline in the tail cap thread and then a turn of electrical tape on the outside. This is easy enough to break and re-tape when changing batteries, especially when you can get long run times from reasonable draw and high capacity batteries.

A last word that we won't find the perfect answer out there, particularly when doing it on the cheap as we are. It is a viable path though so thanks to the info posted on this thread and I hope these comments help to add to the mix.

(Edited for typos)


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

FatNoob said:


> Cat/Clarkenstein,
> 
> Am I understanding correctly that in your opinion the MTE SF-15 is better (for MTB use) than the MTE SSC P7?


i think so. the SF-15 is better for flood use when compared to the P7, and it also does a great job as a spot since it has good throw. the P7 has a slightly tighter spot, so IMHO its better suited strictly for helmet use. also, the SF-15 has a brighter/whiter light. i'm happy with my P7 for helmet use, but i also wouldn't mind having two SF-15s as a set up, one on the bar and one on the helmet.

great post paul64!

_P.S._
defer to Cat's judgement - he knows a lot more than me on this obviously


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Paul, I can run 2 x SF15's in Medium mode have a run time of 3hours+ easy and it's plenty of light, with the option to put both to high if required.

Max Discharge on a 18650, means you always get a Min of 75mins per battery, I get 2hours+ from R2's or XP-G's easy.

Don't let 18650's over discharge the cheap chargers won't see there is a battery then and then can't charge it


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

paul64 said:


> ....All 3 of my 502b, the 502b received by my mate and the 501b received by the other mate were DOA, they would light up on full power and then fade to a pale blue light after a few seconds with clearly burned out elements of the LEDs. I patiently followed the DX reporting and return procedure and returned them to China and then received 3 replacements. I might have given up except I knew how good my mate's first example was. Of the replacement batch 1 is fine, the other 2 were also DOA and so I am in the process of returning those too.
> 
> Point 1: There may be a problem with SKU36357 at present, it can't be a coincidence that 5 out of 6 I received were DOA and my mates have had at least one failure each of 502b and 501b. This makes for a frustrating experience, however the one that works is fantastic.
> 
> )


A strange story indeed. Concerning the 502B and 501B: These are just drop-in torch hosts. Other than the clickie switch on the rear, there is really not too much that can go wrong with them. Both of these models use P-60 drop-in modules. All of the electronics including the led are in the modules themselves. If something is wrong, the drop-in is likely the problem unless you just have flickering or cutting out issues. What you should have done first was to try the drop-in's from the bad torches in the torch that seemed to work fine. If it didn't work in the other torch then you have a faulty drop-in. After that you could take the drop-in from the good torch and try it in the other problem torches. Once again, if the torch now works the problem was with the faulty drop-in's. I suppose returning the entire torch is one way to handle the problem but you could of just as well ordered a replacement drop-in from almost anywhere.

Anyway, sounds like the drop-in's in your torches had some bad drivers ( or were not heat sunk well enough ). However if the connections between the pieces of the torch and within the torch are bad you will get poor performance.

Case in point: I just got finished fiddling around with my XP-G drop-in and new 501B host. For some reason the output was dropping. I took a look at the end cap and noticed that the metal ring was a bit loose. I tightened it a bit and now it looks much better. Still, the one thing I don't like about drop-in torches is that they can be problematic. Still, if you have a good drop-in/drop-in torch they are worth every penny you spent on them.

Right now I am only using the 501B. At some point I may try another brand host if I can find one that is not too bulky.


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## paul64 (Apr 24, 2010)

Hi CMD, here is an example photo of the replacements I received, the good one shown with the defective ones which exhibited the same problem as the original 3 and those of my friends mentioned:










we would have been quite happy for DX to send us a component and ask us to fit those into the torch head as a drop in. Much more economical for them and not difficult for us. When you raise an 'RMA' using their on-line web page you provide a description and upload photos then wait, we guess they forward onto the supplier.

They seem to ignore your detailed information and miss the opportunity to send out components. Instead they they simply instruct you to send the whole product back. Then you have to take photos of the package and proof of postage, include a customs declaration and pay real attention to detail, they have guidelines on using the cheapest postal method possible but most folks won't realise landmail can take up to 8 weeks and so you need to use airmail. The package must have a minimum size, the fonts must be big enough and so on.

Drop in component to bypass all of this? Yes please. If they last a long time then I guess you get familiar with dropping in new modules and if the hosts stand the wear and tear and can be weather proofed then why not.

As you say, when you get a good one and first take it out on the bike you forgive all. At the end of the saga there will be 3 superb lights in output and battery life with low weight spare batteries, back-up from using 2 or 3 lights and a tremendous cost saving. GBP 60 or USD 100 all in for this sort of set-up really makes the consumer think before committing to the options out there which start at double that for single items.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

But then you buy a few dud torches that really don't fit the bill and then there is the continual upgrade path as better torches come out 


I run entirely on torches, I like the same battery across all torches and 3 - 4 torches so odds on getting all fail even in a bad crash are well ridiculously high so nice redundancy.

Should have 2 small, zoom torches here this week, hoorraaaa my first torch purchase in nearly 1 year


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

FatNoob said:


> Cat/Clarkenstein,
> 
> Am I understanding correctly that in your opinion the MTE SF-15 is better (for MTB use) than the MTE SSC P7?


The SF-15 is better but only because it is 5-mode. The other one you listed will be fine as well but is only two mode. The two mode torches are fine on high but the low mode is usually only good for slow or walking/repair use. With the 5 mode torches you get the very usable medium mode which extends run time and is great for anything other than an all out down-hill. Only bad thing about the five modes is that two of the modes are strobe and SOS...which, are very annoying.

For the life of me I don't know why there aren't more torch drivers that are more conducive for bike use. Just give me High, Med, and low... or High, med and slow flash and I'm good. I can deal with just one flash mode as long as it's not a fast strobe and not an SOS, both which are somewhat useless and annoying. That's why I like SKU12060 so much, even though it's a 5-mode I can by-pass the flash modes just by turning it off and then back on. A minor annoyance but I can deal with it.


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## FatNoob (Aug 3, 2010)

Thanks for all the great info!

I can not wait for my "torches" to arrive!


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

fyi if you're ordering right now, my SF-15 and accessories took 7 days after the initial order to ship

The only light I own to compare to is an old NiteRider Evolution, but I'll post what impressions I can.


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## FatNoob (Aug 3, 2010)

boomn,

I already ordered, Order Date was 10-3 and they still have not shipped it yet (as of 10-13). So I know exactly what you mean!

If I knew they were that busy I would have ordered the light off of a US based seller on eSpray, the light would already be here and only cost me slightly more.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

FatNoob said:


> boomn,
> 
> I already ordered, Order Date was 10-3 and they still have not shipped it yet (as of 10-13). So I know exactly what you mean!
> 
> If I knew they were that busy I would have ordered the light off of a US based seller on eSpray, the light would already be here and only cost me slightly more.


Watch your Spam folder. Sometimes the email gets filtered. Watch your postal mail box as well. Sometimes they leave the whole kit there, sometimes just a note ( for you to pick-up )


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## FatNoob (Aug 3, 2010)

So they finally shipped...

Order date 10-3
ship date 10-14

So "in stock ships 2-4 days" can some times mean that it will ship in 11 days. Now I hope the EMS (fast shipping) is more accurate, they say 3-5 days which allowing for weekend would still put them here by Wednesday.

I like the prices, I hope I like the products, DX did respond to email about the delay, and they have shipped a "gift" to make up for the delay (I am wondering what it could be!!!). So I am still happy (as long as the product comes in OK).


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Cool, hopefully they get to mine to, 1 order is nearing 4 weeks 

I used EMS once and found it slower than normal delivery so I stick to free!!


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

DX have delivered within 10 days whereas Kaidomain took 3 weeks.

I think what we can all summarise is that the majority of MTE P7's etc. are all basically the same, give or take a few pluses. 2 of any product will be good enough light.

The Solarforce P60 drop-ins are recommended as the best on price/performance otherwise treat yourself to the Thrunite.

I find 5-mode annoying flicking through. 3-mode is enough and what you need.


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## paul64 (Apr 24, 2010)

terratec said:


> I think what we can all summarise is that the majority of MTE P7's etc. are all basically the same, give or take a few pluses. 2 of any product will be good enough light.


I'm not sure if it's that simple
+ current draw of the host torch means output can range between 300 to maybe 800 lumens
+ BIN rating of the P7 itself means output can range between 400 to maybe 800 lumens
+ some products can have batch problems from time to time
+ battery capacity and torch current draw can mean run-time between 45 min and 2 1/2 hours between battery swap-out
= it's a minefield but the better informed you are the more you can choose for your needs

Last night on the trails using NiteRider 400 twin lights on the bars and P7 torch on the lid of maybe 400 lumens I was just about okay, I will feel happier when I have 2 x P7 torch on the bars and a third 700 lumens torch on the lid.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

No product is out of this world. They all get mixed reviews. If 2 of ANY MTE P7's isn't good enough then you should be looking at something else. Why um and ah on draw/heat when you can pick up 1200 lumens for $45. If you need decent lights, ideal for your requirements, why go for the mega cheapest. If you need in the region or close to a 1000 proper lumens and spend in the region of $50 , it still a mighty deal! Just get the discounted lumens and beam pattern you want and be happy . Tell me 2x18650 together or carried individually isn't enough runtime?

Even with the lightweight battery packs, i think better not have the bother of wires and weight and just have simplicity of carrying spare batteries.

Tip: Order 8-10 batteries, that way your not having to constantly charge night after night.

I still have a P7 from last year working as good as new.

For longer run times in a P60 i was considering a 26650 host but look to be short on the ground still. In the meantime treat yourself to some better 18650 , the Panasonic 2900mah or Samsung 3000mah.


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## liltommy (Aug 9, 2004)

*My SF-15 is garbage.*

It worked for a few day and it was fun blinding the dogs while it lasted.
I put a freshly charged battery in it and left it on for 15 minutes. When I came back the output was way down. Its looks like only 1 or 2 of dies on the chip is working.
I'm not playing the game again.
I'm going over to CPF and am going to investigate to see what decent light I can get thats comparable.
Don't care if I pay 4 times as much as I did from DX.

Goodluck everyone.

PS. Stupid magicshine I bought over a year ago is still going strong.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

paul64 said:


> I'm not sure if it's that simple
> + current draw of the host torch means output can range between 300 to maybe 800 lumens
> + BIN rating of the P7 itself means output can range between 400 to maybe 800 lumens
> + some products can have batch problems from time to time
> ...


That is why i was saying early on, it probably better to rely on XP-G more. A good quality XP-G is very bright, efficient with good runtime and a lighter host. 2 XP-G should provide some flood as well.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

liltommy said:


> It worked for a few day and it was fun blinding the dogs while it lasted.
> I put a freshly charged battery in it and left it on for 15 minutes. When I came back the output was way down. Its looks like only 1 or 2 of dies on the chip is working.
> I'm not playing the game again.
> I'm going over to CPF and am going to investigate to see what decent light I can get thats comparable.
> ...


that sounds like what would happen if it was overheating, right? I'm not too experienced with these though, and 15mins sounds a little quick to overheat even indoors with no air movement though


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Toying with the idea of ordering 2 of these :-

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.44277

Rather than have heavy torches and batterys on my head, slice off what isn't needed, extend the cables and drop those into my rucksack, then 300lumens in a tight ish ( setable ) Spot.


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## liltommy (Aug 9, 2004)

boomn said:


> that sounds like what would happen if it was overheating, right? I'm not too experienced with these though, and 15mins sounds a little quick to overheat even indoors with no air movement though


Yeah, I'm pretty sure it over-heated, but like you said that is too quick.
It was outside, around 50 degrees and I had it sitting on top of a steel hammer to help with heat sinking. I'm sort of glad it happened.
Better to find out this way than out on the trail.
Now I won't feel so bad spending over $100 on something decent.
Anybody got any ideas on something that has thermal protection and built in low voltage for the battery. In case I wanna try un-protected batteries,


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Had 1 of the Zoom to Floods arrive, not from DX but 2 coming from them likely tomorrow 

Looks perfect for head useage, like a Sylvia L1 but adjustable and 2x's the power for the same sized spot, it's a crisp spot of light with no artifacts or anything annoying.

IMPRESSED role on a night ride later


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

I recently picked up a couple of those zoom to throws of ebay - the 3 aaa model and supposedly q5. Those are cool little lights. The 18650 version is supposed to be better, but I see these eventually being used around the house.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

this is a 130lumen claimed thrower basically, nice blue light, I'll take it out on the trails later and give it a proper test and work out where to have it Zoom wise.

I've got 2 which claim 160lumens and the site claims 250lumens hopefully arriving tomorrow, plan it to use 2 of these and glue and seal the device at a zoom mode I like / use.

It's ability to throw a LED shaped with the wires visible projection out to 200Metres most likely is very impressive, make a great searching light, especially if it had 2x's the lumens!!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Turveyd said:


> this is a 130lumen claimed thrower basically, nice blue light, I'll take it out on the trails later and give it a proper test and work out where to have it Zoom wise.
> 
> I've got 2 which claim 160lumens and the site claims 250lumens hopefully arriving tomorrow, plan it to use 2 of these and glue and seal the device at a zoom mode I like / use.
> 
> It's ability to throw a LED shaped with the wires visible projection out to 200Metres most likely is very impressive, make a great searching light, especially if it had 2x's the lumens!!


Let us know how the 250L ones make out. If they start making the zoom-to-throw torches with XP-E or G with a 18650 I might just have to check it out. On a side note: With my last D/X order I bought one of the Ultrafire host with a XP-E drop-in. I am surprisingly impressed with it. Very good throw, nice neutral tint. Not as much spill light as a XPG but not bad. Still , a zoom to throw XP-G torch could be the bomb.


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

Turveyd said:


> this is a 130lumen claimed thrower basically.......QUOTE]
> 
> Yeah, the zoom is unbelievable. I've only tried them with alkaline batteries. There are lots of little mods on DE if you search for c30 and x2000. I put a spacer under the emitter of one for a little more flood. The current measured 730ma when the batteries were fresh. It measured 1.6a when I tested it with a 18650 for a few secs, so I definitely can't use those.
> 
> ...


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

is there any way to take say a SF-15 and pop it in a zoom to throw set up as a mod?


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

This silver Aurora is a favourable P7 , check the build quality.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15739

and someone try this Spiderfire
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.19767

For flood to throw check out JFT and MXDL.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

I now have a 501b body. A 502b or 504b body is meant to have better heatsinking. I still rather have a Solarforce. Lightake sell the bodies cheaply.

Custom 3*XP-G R5 P60 drop-in 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=277951


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

I really liked all my Zoom to Throw flashlights...........until I got a P7. I'll be selling off a few of the Zoom to Throws now, and keep a couple for the house. But I won't bother using them on the bike anymore.

I'd have to use at least 3-4 to get near the output of the P7, so it's not worth it, I'd rather just get another P7.

I have the P4 models that use 3xAAA's and the Q5 models that use the 18650's.
_IF_ someone still wants to go that route, get the Q5 MXDL's. They are definitely brighter then the P4's and it's much easier to change out a single 18650 mid ride then to mess with AAA's.
But again, I really think you're just better off going with a P7.


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

terratec - $130 for the drop-in you linked? It must be nice. Some of us are just starting out with the 7 dollar lights.

fightnut - I'm thinking along those lines already. The zooms are neat, and one could easily stick a cheap r5 on them to get a little more out of it, but after being on a trail after dusk, I found I wanted a bit more umph. One of my zooms will go in my car. The flash mode might be useful in case of an emergency.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

terratec said:


> I now have a 501b body. A 502b or 504b body is meant to have better heatsinking. I still rather have a Solarforce. Lightake sell the bodies cheaply.
> 
> Custom 3*XP-G R5 P60 drop-in
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=277951


A triple in a one cell torch isn't going to run very long and is going to get real hot. The dealer even warned about the heat. Not to mention these are XP-G's and will not have a real tight beam pattern. A triple XP-E drop-in might be interesting for helmet use but like the XPG, will not run long on one cell.

The Solarforce drop-in host sold by Lightake don't look as good as the dealer sold versions. I have no idea if they are as good but for the price I would be a little skeptical of the quality. Still, since they are cheap...why not try it out.

I saw this 1400ma XP-G R-5 torch on Shiningbeam the other day and thought it looks nice. This one doesn't use a drop-in and is one oz. heavier than my 401B. More metal for more heat sinking....a good thing at this amp rating. Also of note, it uses only three modes...no flash modes..:thumbsup: Comes in a smooth or OP version reflector. Still, for the money they want I wish I could see some beam shots or a torch break down photo. ....ummm...I am tempted.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

I saw the beam patterns of that custom 3xXP-G , should solve all your issues  , brighter than SST-50 but alas 2.8A. If it got adequate brass heatsinking and feels hot, the heat is transferring to the body well. then that is a good thing right. No, wouldn't run long on 1 battery. The price is the biggest issue. Just sharing what i found.

I guess you already know of this 445L 1.4A drop-in $45, goes to town with the heatsinking. Talk of copper and Artic Silver 5. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=261801 I already knew copper is one of the very best conductive materials. Maybe, if you really goto town on the heatsinking, A MCE could be really worthwhile in a P60. More flood but with more lumens... For your interest http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=260659

Looking around I think i use ITC ebay shop for authentic Solarforce.

I have seen some 2x18650 hosts that just 2 inches longer than 1x18650. You could get away with that length on the bar without looking ridiculous.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

terratec said:


> I saw the beam patterns of that custom 3xXP-G , should solve all your issues  , brighter than SST-50 but alas 2.8A. If it got adequate brass heatsinking and feels hot, the heat is transferring to the body well. then that is a good thing right. No, wouldn't run long on 1 battery. The price is the biggest issue. Just sharing what i found.


These custom drop-ins do look nice but are designed around the name brand hosts. Yes, expensive. With that said I would love to have one. I'm not sure what beam photos you saw, do you have the link? The CPF thread only showed a table beam shot. Not much you can tell from that. I own a triple 20mm XPG bike light and it is very floody, even with the narrowest optics available.

If I could find a triple XP-E drop-in similar to the XP-G triple I might be willing to drop the coin for a new (better) host torch/drop-in. Heat and run time would still be an issue but if you mod the torch to run off of two external cells....well, things get interesting. Since I wouldn't plan on running the high mode for too long an interval this just might work. Medium mode should be somewhere in the 400 lumen range and should be very usable for long term periods. Of course for around the same money I could just buy an Amoeba and be done with it. :smilewinkgrin:

For the time being my SST-50 drop-in outputs around 550 lumen and is very usable. I might look into another XP-G drop-in @ 1.5A but not sure yet. The one I have is working well but only 1.3A.....Now if I could find a 1.5A version of the XP-*E*, I just might have to get me one of those.


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## FatNoob (Aug 3, 2010)

terratec said:


> This silver Aurora is a favourable P7 , check the build quality.
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15739
> 
> and someone try this Spiderfire
> ...


I have the spiderfire on order it should be here sometime this coming week (I hope). I have 3 different P7s coming from DX. SpiderFire, MTE SSC P7, and MTE SF-15 because I could not figure out which was better and I need 3 lights so I just ordered an array to "test".


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Really impressed with the flood to zoom, the optics are wasteful the spottier they go, so just under full flood seems to work the best, nice perfect spread of light just where your looking no hazy fuzzyness like other beams.

2 hopefully higher powered 1's on my helmet should be perfect hopefully they'll both arrive in the next day or 2. ( 1 might do it, but doubt Q3 to Q5 will make a huge difference )


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Last night I got toying around with my torches and tried mounting two on my helmet. I did this because I discovered that running the SST-50 drop-in in combo with the XP-E drop-in produced a beautiful beam pattern. The 50 drop-in with the wider beam the XPE with a narrow hot spot. Both beams are roughly the same tint and the effect is sweet. 

This does create some problems though....More weight on the helmet for one ( yes but not too bad as long as the weight is balanced ) and more problematic when it comes to mounting. Once again wadded pieces of old tube with strategic use of electrical tape to the rescue...Still even if I get it stable, balanced and aimed right it has one heavily unredeemable characteristic....IT IS VERY CLUNKY LOOKING... 

I'll see if CLUNKY is worth dealing with when I see the results of the beam on the trail. :thumbsup:


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I run 2 strapped on with inner tube strips and bits of inner tube glued to the helmet to stop it sliding around, but my helmet was chosen for it's ease of torch fitting 

Was running XP-E ( to yellow ) with a XP-G ( to blue ) which was working well, but experimenting with Zoom optics, bigger spot and no wasteful spill.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

First DX order has arrived and well a bit of a waste of time :-

Unique Fire L2 XP-G switch it on, and BRIGHT NICE, within 5seconds starts to dim and LED's burnt out doh!!

The EDI-T P9 Flood to Zoom although nice is down on poor compared to the MXDL SA-28 estimate 30% lower and much heavier to doh!!

Hope the batterys, charger and 4 Ipod Shuffle head phones at 1/4 the normal price all work 

2 more EDI-T's in transit expect they won't be anything special, but we'll see, there 3 mode so maybe better driver ?? EDI-T P4's smaller to.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Last night I got toying around with my torches and tried mounting two on my helmet. I did this because I discovered that running the SST-50 drop-in in combo with the XP-E drop-in produced a beautiful beam pattern. The 50 drop-in with the wider beam the XPE with a narrow hot spot. Both beams are roughly the same tint and the effect is sweet.
> 
> This does create some problems though....More weight on the helmet for one ( yes but not too bad as long as the weight is balanced ) and more problematic when it comes to mounting. Once again wadded pieces of old tube with strategic use of electrical tape to the rescue...Still even if I get it stable, balanced and aimed right it has one heavily unredeemable characteristic....IT IS VERY CLUNKY LOOKING...
> 
> I'll see if CLUNKY is worth dealing with when I see the results of the beam on the trail. :thumbsup:


Yeah I'm quoting myself...just to keep the same train of thought. I finally did try out the two torch set-up ( above ). It does put out a lot of light. One problem though, two torches on my helmet make the helmet very unstable. I'm afraid that ain't gonna work for me. Real shame too because it was a nice output.

Switching gears....My XP-G R-5 drop-in gave up the ghost tonight.  
I'm not sure why but I think likely the driver burnt out. The led still lights but is only putting out about 20 lumens. Oh well.  Such is life. I got one season of good use out of it. If I want another I can spend another $13...no big deal. Right now it is not a big issue anyway because ( for me ) the torch helmet riding season is about over. With all the leaves and debris of fall, time for me to use the good lights. Even with the good lights with all the leaves ( not to mention misty/foggy night air ) night riding is so much more hazardous.

Still my next decision will be: Should I buy a nice ThurNite 1.5A XP-G R-5 drop-in ( 3-mode ) or something like the torch from Shiningbeam I mentioned before....decisions, decisions.


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## paul64 (Apr 24, 2010)

What are the 'good lights' you use Cat, DX again or a brand offering?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

paul64 said:


> What are the 'good lights' you use Cat, DX again or a brand offering?


I was talking about my "good" helmet light. It is the *Lumen8R* quad made by *HIDtechnologies*. It's a quad Cree R2 LED lamp. Outputs around 900 lumens and has a nice beam pattern for helmet use. This is the Link to the review I did on it some years ago. ( P.S. If you have any questions just PM me. Don't won't to get to far off subject as this is a torch thread.. ) Now questions about torches...ask up!


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

i swapped P60 drop in reflector from my dead unique fire torch into my 1 year old XP-G torch and its tightened the spot slightly looks better, so not a total waste of a order!!


The Zoom torch gives a good spread of light it's good on it's own, but with the XP-G it's pretty damn good, the Zoom though doesn't get much brighter as you go to a spot as it wastes the light so might aswell run it in flood mode.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> These custom drop-ins do look nice but are designed around the name brand hosts. Yes, expensive. With that said I would love to have one. I'm not sure what beam photos you saw, do you have the link? The CPF thread only showed a table beam shot. Not much you can tell from that. I own a triple 20mm XPG bike light and it is very floody, even with the narrowest optics available.


If 1000L not too much, look like the ideal beam for bike, plenty of flood and throw together but not too floody.
https://www.brucewilles.de/l2p_dropin_review/11.JPG
https://www.brucewilles.de/l2p_dropin_review/9.JPG
https://www.brucewilles.de/l2p_dropin_review/10.JPG

Another nice custom 3*XPG @1.1A each https://www.oveready.com/titanium-e...-single-level-drop-in-3-5-9-5v-/prod_163.html
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=280671&page=3
https://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac218/ejot_/Lights and CPF/IMG_2153s.jpg
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3515375&postcount=1


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

FatNoob said:


> So they finally shipped...
> 
> Order date 10-3
> ship date 10-14
> ...


I had this same problem ordered lights 9/28 and did the EMS 3-4 day shipping but they took until 10/13 to ship. On the website it states a max of 5 days from order to ship time.


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## FatNoob (Aug 3, 2010)

GTR2ebike said:


> I had this same problem ordered lights 9/28 and did the EMS 3-4 day shipping but they took until 10/13 to ship. On the website it states a max of 5 days from order to ship time.


The EMS delivery was accurate ship date was 10-14 and delivery was 10-19... and that included 2 weekend days.

So Break Down:
10-3 Order Date
10-14 Ship Date
10-19 Delivery Date


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

terratec said:


> If 1000L not too much, look like the ideal beam for bike, plenty of flood and throw together but not too floody.


Yes, the beam shots look nice. The oveready doesn't mention having modes and is designed to run with two cells ( although it will run on one at diminished output ).
FWIW, I lliked the one you first linked to in an earlier post. It had three modes. Just keep in mind a triple on high isn't going to run for very long. Not a problem if you have lower modes and use the high when needed. Still, the entire set-up ( drop-in and torch ) will cost over $200. While the high output is nice on these comparatively speaking, the D/X SF-15 is almost as bright ( about 700 Lumens IMO ) and way cheaper ( around $30 )...and you could always buy two SF-15's for 1400 lumen output. If you've got the money I'd go with the set-up here.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I was considering 1 of those until I saw the price, $150 to much for my likings.

A XP-G torch + a Zoom to Flood in full Flood mode is working great on my head anyway, it triples the brightness of the spill and raises the spot slightly stops me missing things then crashing


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> terratec, Take a look at the link I provided again. You will see that the torch, although set-up to hold 3 x 18650's can also work with just two. The torch disassembles into multi-pieces. You only use the pieces you want for the size you want. Anyway, from the photos it looks like a real thrower.


This about the best for value/brightness http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.30683 This one looks to be better, very big flood and throw http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15685

My award still goes to the cheap 501b MCE which is brighter than alot of MTE, P7, XP-G out there http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39359


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

about to jump the gun the those sf-15 lights. few questions which battery would give me the longest life? and what mount would be best? I have a magic shine 900 and i see people putting that on there helmet and the sf-15 on the bars, but wouldnt the magic shine be real heavy on ur head combined with the battery? also does anyone know a good really bright tail light? i remember seeing a link somewhere for one from dtx that looked like a flash light but was red any one know of this model or any other bright tail lights?


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Don't buy the 3000mah's they have a slow discharge rate so you'll get a noticeable drop in power, the pink 2600's where supposed to have the fastest discharge rate but I couldn't tell and they played up to much for me.


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

alphaqforever247 said:


> does anyone know a good really bright tail light? i remember seeing a link somewhere for one from dtx that looked like a flash light but was red any one know of this model or any other bright tail lights?


http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20333
additional drop-in
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26345

You'll have to use a diffuser due to the bright hotspot and to make some side visibility (eg. cut down plastic cover from a rear light). If you can manage to fix the diffuser an inch or so away, you'll have a bigger more effective light.

Another one i found with a nice diffuser.
http://www.lightake.com/detail.do/s..._Lumen_LED_Flashlight_Black_(Red_Tube)_-30784

http://www.lightake.com/detail.do/sku.3_LED_4_Mode_Bicycle_Tail_Light_(3xAAA)-32822
http://www.lightake.com/detail.do/sku.LC_258_Super_Bright_Bicycle_Tail_Light_(2xAAA)-32798


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

alphaqforever247 said:


> about to jump the gun the those sf-15 lights. few questions which battery would give me the longest life? and what mount would be best? I have a magic shine 900 and i see people putting that on there helmet and the sf-15 on the bars, but wouldnt the magic shine be real heavy on ur head combined with the battery? also does anyone know a good really bright tail light? i remember seeing a link somewhere for one from dtx that looked like a flash light but was red any one know of this model or any other bright tail lights?


battery doesn't go on your head, it goes in your backpack. The light head alone shouldn't feel too heavy


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## terratec (Nov 20, 2009)

Turveyd said:


> I was considering 1 of those until I saw the price, $150 to much for my likings.





Cat-man-do said:


> Yes, the beam shots look nice. The oveready doesn't mention having modes and is designed to run with two cells ( although it will run on one at diminished output ).
> FWIW, I lliked the one you first linked to in an earlier post. It had three modes. Just keep in mind a triple on high isn't going to run for very long. Not a problem if you have lower modes and use the high when needed. Still, the entire set-up ( drop-in and torch ) will cost over $200. While the high output is nice on these comparatively speaking, the D/X SF-15 is almost as bright ( about 700 Lumens IMO ) and way cheaper ( around $30 )...and you could always buy two SF-15's for 1400 lumen output. If you've got the money I'd go with the set-up here.


A commercial equivalent at that price would be a EagleTac M2XC4(3xXPE) ,M3C4(SST-50) , Fenix TK40, similar runtime and large flood/throw pattern but not nicely bright as 3xXPG.

You might find this of use.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=283966

There is a cheap incandescent, old mod you can do with a Maglite 2D or 2C flashlight, that will give you 600 lumens or more, depending on the bulb and a hour's runtime on 2x18650. I not seen on MTBR before.

Details here
http://edcfeatures.blogspot.com/2007/01/do-it-yourself-roar-of-pelican-rop.html

For slightly longer runtime and little less lumens, can use a WA1111 bulb instead.

2C 2D flashlights are too long to be mounted to the bars. If you can cut down and use the head with a battery back, then it's worth doing.


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

alphaqforever247 said:


> about to jump the gun the those sf-15 lights. few questions which battery would give me the longest life? and what mount would be best? I have a magic shine 900 and i see people putting that on there helmet and the sf-15 on the bars, but wouldnt the magic shine be real heavy on ur head combined with the battery? also does anyone know a good really bright tail light? i remember seeing a link somewhere for one from dtx that looked like a flash light but was red any one know of this model or any other bright tail lights?


in my SF-15 i'm using these batteries:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26247

...and so far so good for me. i went on a 2.5 hour ride Friday night and didn't have to change the batteries once using mid mode exclusively. i've done 1.5 hours using both mid and high modes and also didn't have to do any battery swapping.

good mounts are all up to your bars/helmet type.


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

boomn said:


> battery doesn't go on your head, it goes in your backpack. The light head alone shouldn't feel too heavy


ohh yeah duhhh lol. thanks


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

clarkenstein said:


> in my SF-15 i'm using these batteries:
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26247
> 
> ...and so far so good for me. i went on a 2.5 hour ride Friday night and didn't have to change the batteries once using mid mode exclusively. i've done 1.5 hours using both mid and high modes and also didn't have to do any battery swapping.
> ...


im running a ritchey wcs bar. which mount are u guys all using?


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

alphaqforever247 said:


> im running a ritchey wcs bar. which mount are u guys all using?


i've got a stock brodie 31.8 handlebar. i took this mount:

https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8274

removed the bolt, and use a cable tie to snug it up right next to the stem like this:










i use two very small cable ties to secure the torch to the mount. i ride pretty technical rocky stuff and as long as i sinch it down tight enough, it doesn't move one bit.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

This is what I used to mount flashlights. Reflector brackets and Planet bike mount reversed. Multi-adjustable for different flashlight circumference.


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

any one know were else u can purchase these lights from, besides dtx or a in china?


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Finally USPS tried to deliver my light today, but I wasn't home so I didn't get it. I ordered mine on Sept 30th.


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

clarkenstein said:


> i've got a stock brodie 31.8 handlebar. i took this mount:
> 
> https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8274
> 
> ...


i understand how u used the zip tie to get it on the bars but what did u do to keep the light in place? cuz juss clipping it in doesnt seem to secure specially for mountain biking.


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## FatNoob (Aug 3, 2010)

alphaqforever247 said:


> i understand how u used the zip tie to get it on the bars but what did u do to keep the light in place? cuz juss clipping it in doesnt seem to secure specially for mountain biking.


I am loving that simple cheap mount. The clamping has been very secure.

I 'tested" the it before going on a ride and I could not get the light to come out of the clamp unless the light was actually hit by something. So as long as you don't crash your light should be fine. If you crash the clamp is the "weakest" point so you light will detach from the bar and that may save your light.

If you have a straight section of bar that clamp is great.

For a $1.80 what does it hurt to try it?


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

alphaqforever247 said:


> i understand how u used the zip tie to get it on the bars but what did u do to keep the light in place? cuz juss clipping it in doesnt seem to secure specially for mountain biking.


two small cable ties go around the torch, and under the clamp to secure it. i don't think its necessary, but it gives me piece of mind. i don't have a pic, but i drew one:


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Treated myself for Xmas, which is likely when it'll arrive  to a SST-50 Thrower!!

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.33615

Good reviews, good thrower so hoping it'll make a very good helmet light, got the blue colour which best suites my eyes.

Zoom to Floods failed, to inefficient in the Zoom mode and flood really, handy carry around torches and might try 2 of them on my bars angled apart a bit.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Turveyd said:


> *Treated myself for Xmas, which is likely when it'll arrive  to a SST-50 Thrower!!*
> 
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.33615
> 
> ...


Looks very promising. I remember talking about this torch a while back and wondered if anyone on forum would buy one. Seems like it has gotten some favorable reviews since then. I just noticed a few things while checking out the stats on the torch. It seems it's almost the same size as the Aurora M3-2 ( MC-E ) torch that I have. Since my Aurora had a very good throw/ beam pattern I think the one you ordered ( with SST-50 ) will likely be a bit better since it has a more powerful driver. ( my Aurora draws 2.0A at the cap ). This SST-50 version is likely using the same 2.5A driver as was used in the SF-15's. I don't think it's going to give 1000lm as you would need 3.5A to do that but @ 2.5A you might get a decent 750-800 (real) lumens. If the beam off the reflector is as tight as I think it is, you should still get a very nice tight beam pattern with throw in the 170-200' range. I look forward to your reviews when you get it.

I don't think I'd count on the beam being blueish like the one reviewer mentioned. The SST-50 I have in my drop-in is very neutral white. On the up side I've always been very pleased with it's output ( est. 550lm IMO ) @ 1.5A. I think the extra 1A should get you near that 800 lumen mark.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Doubt any single 18650 can pull that, but the smooth reflector should make it a good thrower and clean aswell no artifacts to mess with you.

I EMS'd it, so here is hoping it arrives in a 2 weeks area!!


Reviews do say 30% brighter than the P7 Equiv's so we shall see.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*I like the torches used by...*

...the villagers to go after Frankenstein. I also have this one from Deal Extreme that has worked very well for two years.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15691


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

It's a bit scarey I'm using 2year old torches and the LED Tech really hasn't moved along at all over this time, sad really expected atleast 50% more output from them already.

Impressive these cheapo torches have held up so well, they've had a lot of use.


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

ok - just a quick time/battery duration update on my set up (see page 2 for what i'm using).

on a solid 2.5 hour long ride (slightly longer than that) with both torches on mid mode most of the time, never using low mode, sometimes using high mode on downhills, and there were no battery changes needed. so far on every ride i have gone on i have not needed to use my spares batteries.


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

clarkenstein said:


> in my SF-15 i'm using these batteries:
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26247
> 
> ...and so far so good for me. i went on a 2.5 hour ride Friday night and didn't have to change the batteries once using mid mode exclusively. i've done 1.5 hours using both mid and high modes and also didn't have to do any battery swapping.
> ...


what do u think about these ones

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20392

seems to have alot of good reviews.


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

alphaqforever247 said:


> what do u think about these ones
> 
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20392
> 
> seems to have alot of good reviews.


they look like the will do the job as well. i haven't personally used them, but they look to have all the right criteria (they are protected, which is the most important part) to work out well. the reviews do look good.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Had a good mess with the zoom to spot torch I got for $13 or something stupid, tighten the spot so it's 2x's the spot of the XPG and you get a perfect very bright spot thats big enough to light up everything you want.

I'll try 2 x Zoom to Spots tomorrow night.

shame those other 2 smaller lighter ones on order appear to have gotten lost, posted 2days after my other package and 8days later no sign


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Oh man I received my order today from DX. I ordered the SF-15, batteries and charger. I was all excited and waited patiently while the batteries were charging and when they were done, presto guess what, the darn flashlight is defective. Only two modes work properly, medium and low. The other modes come on for a few seconds then it shuts off. I am disappointed after waiting almost a month for my order to arrive. I was looking forward to playing with the light tonight too.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MaximusHQ said:


> Oh man I received my order today from DX. I ordered the SF-15, batteries and charger. I was all excited and waited patiently while the batteries were charging and when they were done, presto guess what, the darn flashlight is defective. Only two modes work properly, medium and low. The other modes come on for a few seconds then it shuts off. I am disappointed after waiting almost a month for my order to arrive. I was looking forward to playing with the light tonight too.


Ugh....Sad to hear. Before sending it back...Check the metal ring inside the switch cap and make sure it is tight. You will see two holes on the ring. Use tweezers, bent paper clip or small pointy scissors and turn clockwise. Turn the torch on and see if this this resolves the problem. If you're very lucky this will fix the problem. If not, try this next suggestion as a last resort. I say this because I messed with my emitter on my SF-15 and it almost F'd it up. I figure if yours is already disfunctional you have nothing to lose because you can still return it if this doesn't work.

With the torch power off remove the front bezel, then remove the reflector. Inspect the mounting on the emitter. Try rotating the emitter mount C-clockwise a small bit ( if it looks loose ). Reassemble the torch and see if this fixes the problem. If this doesn't work try the other direction, reassemble before turning on so torch gets proper heat sinking. I have no idea if this will work but since mine was loose I figure others might be the same way. FWIW mine worked fine when I got it. I only messed with mine because I saw that the emitter mount was loose. I turned mine clockwise and it almost messed it up.  Luckily for me I returned it to it's original position and it worked fine. That is why I suggested moving it C-clockwise. Good luck.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

With all been there maximusHQ, it's the downside, I don't even bother to send them back, there that cheap it's not worth the hassle in short.


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## FatNoob (Aug 3, 2010)

MaximusHQ said:


> Oh man I received my order today from DX. I ordered the SF-15, batteries and charger. I was all excited and waited patiently while the batteries were charging and when they were done, presto guess what, the darn flashlight is defective. Only two modes work properly, medium and low. The other modes come on for a few seconds then it shuts off. I am disappointed after waiting almost a month for my order to arrive. I was looking forward to playing with the light tonight too.


I had the same problem but in my case if the batteries are slightly discharged (I meanly only slightly) the light works fine. In my case I think it is the "protected" batteries giving a "false" over current and cutting out.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

DX is coming along, that SST-50 has just shipped, should have it early next week ( likely Late )

Just hope it actually gets here and actually works, which is the DX gamble.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

FatNoob said:


> I had the same problem but in my case if the batteries are slightly discharged (I meanly only slightly) the light works fine. In my case I think it is the "protected" batteries giving a "false" over current and cutting out.


Thank you very much for this info. I noticed the light was working like it should today and did a test to try out your theory. I fully charged one of my batteries and low and behold the darn high, strobe, and s.o.s. weren't working again. I ran the light on medium for 5 minutes and tried all the modes again, but nothing, then I tried again every 5 minutes and at about 20 minutes of running on medium all of the modes worked as they are supposed to. I tried this with 2 batteries and they both exhibit the exact same behavior. They both start working as they should after about 20 minutes of use on the batteries and they continue to work as they should thereafter.

The question now is, should I get a different type of battery and that will solve the issue? I have these now: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26247 Thanks for all the suggestions, solutions, and info everyone.


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## FatNoob (Aug 3, 2010)

MaximusHQ said:


> The question now is, should I get a different type of battery and that will solve the issue? I have these now: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26247 Thanks for all the suggestions, solutions, and info everyone.


I am not sure if it is batteries or the a heat or driver issue.

I am a NOOB when it comes to lights, but I believe these lights are "Direct Driven" on High. Which I think means that the LED will take as much "juice" as the batteries will let it have.

I have the exact same batteries as you. The next 2 tests I want to do:

1. Is trying some "Un-Protected" batteries.
2. Testing voltage of freshly toped off batteries and then slightly discharging them until I get to a level where High will work again and testing that voltage.

Once I know the voltage where high will work I would love to only charge to that... So I would need a "programmable" charger.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

dagnabbit! I wish I had known what the Hong Kong Post status messages really meant. I put my order in on 10/4 and got a status update on 10/14 about my package being accepted. Well I just got another update today (15 days since the last one) that my package had finally left Hong Kong. What!? I figured they were like the USPS and after the first status they wouldn't update till it showed up in my mailbox, especially since it had been over two weeks since my package was in their system. Rant over. Any one else had this problem?


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

That doesn't sound good. What does usps show when you enter the number on their site?

I made two orders last week, one for the MTE sf-15... The first order shows in packaging today. The second order shipped on the 27. USPS shows they accepted it on that day. Guess usps is as slow over there as they are here.

The second order was a cheap Chinese emitter and parts to play around with a diy. I'm thinking that I can use it as a work light on my tractor if doesn't turn out well. Glad I didn't order the three r5's I started to get. Someone posted in the diy forum the new crees will be out next month.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

rlouder said:


> That doesn't sound good. What does usps show when you enter the number on their site?


same message. I've sent a question off to DX about it


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MaximusHQ said:


> Thank you very much for this info. I noticed the light was working like it should today and did a test to try out your theory. I fully charged one of my batteries and low and behold the darn high, strobe, and s.o.s. weren't working again. I ran the light on medium for 5 minutes and tried all the modes again, but nothing, then I tried again every 5 minutes and at about 20 minutes of running on medium all of the modes worked as they are supposed to. I tried this with 2 batteries and they both exhibit the exact same behavior. They both start working as they should after about 20 minutes of use on the batteries and they continue to work as they should thereafter.
> 
> *The question now is, should I get a different type of battery and that will solve the issue? I have these now: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26247 Thanks for all the suggestions, solutions, and info everyone*.


I use the same batteries. It's not the battery. Sounds like a problem with the driver or the connections to the driver. Right now it sounds like the driver is sensitive to the peak voltage of the battery when it is freshly charge. Very strange. Usually this stuff works better when batteries are freshly charged. All of my 5-modes act up only when the battery is on the low side.

What you might want to try: Get the torch working like it should, then after it has been running for about 5 minutes switch the battery to one that has a full charge and see if there is any change in function of the torch. If it continues to work normally then likely there is no problem with the batteries. In that case you might have a component on the driver that is temperature sensitive or a solder joint for that matter. Right now it sounds like once the torch is warm it works fine.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Finally had 2 of these arrive :-

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.44573

There small, there well built slightly less power than the bigger lensed 1 I've got but open out to a wider flood if required, you do need both of them then you can run a reasonible sized spot ie enough to see everything where your looking then with both it's BRIGHT 

Find the spot size you want then a recommend a dab of glue.

For $12 a pop there sweet, I had over 3hours on a single 18650 on the other similar torch to, I suspect there driven ~700Ma's so room for better torches maybe like this.

1 of these + the SST-50 on my head and 1 of these max flood on the bars I think.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

I finally got my SF-15 with the same batteries and I am having the same exact problem. I played around with it for ~10 mins last night before bed and I hadn't reached the point yet where the high mode stayed on. Cat-man-do, I'll try your test method tonight and post results


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

boomn said:


> I finally got my SF-15 with the same batteries and I am having the same exact problem. I played around with it for ~10 mins last night before bed and I hadn't reached the point yet where the high mode stayed on. Cat-man-do, I'll try your test method tonight and post results


Ever since I tightened mine up (using the info in the "troubleshooting" link), I've had no further issues.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

fightnut said:


> Ever since I tightened mine up (using the info in the "troubleshooting" link), I've had no further issues.


what link is that?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

boomn said:


> what link is that?


I think this is the link ( from CPF ) that is being referred to.

I'm really sad to hear about people having problems with the SF-15. My SF-15 continues to work fine but I'll not take the reflector/lens housing apart again unless it starts to act up. I sure wish D/X had better quality control. I have a feeling that when this time of year rolls around and the mad rush is on, what little quality control D/X does have, promptly goes out the door ( in the rush to meet demand ).


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> I think this is the link ( from CPF ) that is being referred to.
> 
> I'm really sad to hear about people having problems with the SF-15. My SF-15 continues to work fine but I'll not take the reflector/lens housing apart again unless it starts to act up. I sure wish D/X had better quality control. I have a feeling that when this time of year rolls around and the mad rush is on, what little quality control D/X does have, promptly goes out the door ( in the rush to meet demand ).


thanks. I didn't get enough time last night to test if it is a heat issue or not


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

It's a bummer hearing about this. I'm glad now that I cancelled my order with DX and just bought another MS900 from Geoman. But, I'd still really like to get a good flashlight for camping/car/toolbox/etc. I wish I could trust the brands DX has, but it seems not many have any consistency in quality.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> It's a bummer hearing about this. I'm glad now that I cancelled my order with DX and just bought another MS900 from Geoman. But, I'd still really like to get a good flashlight for camping/car/toolbox/etc. I wish I could trust the brands DX has, but it seems not many have any consistency in quality.


Costco had some 400 or so lumen LED flashlights that looked like the DX ones last winter. I'm sure they'll have something again soon.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

still haven't been able to do any investigation on my sf15 but I got to use it this weekend a little bit for non-biking stuff this weekend and it looks like it's not that heat issue. I tried it on high mode saturday night and it didn't work so I used it on medium for ~5-10 minutes for some stuff around the cabin. I picked it up again Sunday morning (definitely not warmed up) and tried it on high and it worked without a problem for the 10 minutes that I tried it. I still need to try the tightening down tips


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## FatNoob (Aug 3, 2010)

After a couple of charge cycles on the batteries my lights are no longer having that issue (of cutting out while on high). Not sure what the issue is or was but all seems to be "Peaches and Cream" now!


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

I like all my DX torches for different reasons (TR-801's & SSC P7's and recently ordered a couple of the XPG/XPE 330/320L torches), but my question is: 
Is it wrong/dangerous to use my MTE SSC P7 torch with no glass lens (in cold temps)? The lens busted, but the light still works? Is this endangering the LED? Will this cause a void in the space/time continuum? Or will everything be fine barring something getting jammed up in the LED?
Thanks.


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## miggy (Nov 25, 2008)

whats the average delivery time from DX to tthe UK? anyone, will I get it befofre Xmas


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

This time of year kinda poor, remember there free delivery so max 10 small orders rather than 1 big one, you might get some through sooner that way.

The last SST-50 I ordered took 4 days to send and it's 13days tomorrow and still no sign, suspect it'll be here tomorrow though, day after worst case.

So you've got a chance!!


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

I've been waiting for 3 weeks for a couple of orders. The second one shipped a couple days later than the first order but it finally left HK today. The first order is still stuck in HK in the HKPost system.

According to the forum at DX, they are using a different shipper now. You may have better luck. HKPost just plain ***.

At this rate, I'll be able to build something with the new xm-l's before the packages arrive.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Ahhh I haven't checked to see if they've delivered it or not, it used to be a delievered and arrive a week later, the last 2 orders where about 2 weeks so fingers crossed the next day or 3 worse case.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Posted 29th of last month, so really good odds it'll be here tomorrow


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

IMHO said:


> I like all my DX torches for different reasons (TR-801's & SSC P7's and recently ordered a couple of the XPG/XPE 330/320L torches), but my question is:
> Is it wrong/dangerous to use my MTE SSC P7 torch with no glass lens (in cold temps)? The lens busted, but the light still works? Is this endangering the LED? Will this cause a void in the space/time continuum? Or will everything be fine barring something getting jammed up in the LED?
> Thanks.


Probably not a good idea. Debris ( dust, dirt, moisture ) might collect on the emitter and mess it up. I suggest finding some clear thin plastic that you can cut to make a temporary lens. Then order up a new lens. The coated lenses are the best. You just need to know the size. See link.



> Originally Posted by IMHO
> Will this cause a void in the space/time continuum?
> Thanks.


Sorry, this queston almost got by me. Actually, no...not unless you are very the near the event horizon of a "Gravitational Singularity". However if you use a Penrose-Hawking isolation field emitter ( for stabilization ) even then you should have no worries. ( *References: "The Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy" and Wikipedia ) :smilewinkgrin:


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

over 2 weeks since the SST-50 shipped  Sucks expected it over a week ago 


Hoping this will be the head mounted solution to all our night riding requirements!!


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## p_cycle (Jul 22, 2006)

shipped on the 1/11 nothing yet. sucks big time.


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

It could be a while.

I have one that was "shipped" on Nov. 1. HKPost says "The item (RTXXXXXXXXXXHK) was posted on 1-Nov-2010". Until it says "..... was posted on 1-Nov-2010 and is being processed for delivery", it's just sitting in a warehouse and not being processed (if you believe DX). If mine doesn't leave HK by 40 days, I may do a paypal dispute before the 45 day limit.

http://www.dealextreme.com/forums/Forums.dx/Forum.-100~threadid.743130

*** Update
The info in the DX forum may not be correct. Mine went from "was posted on 1-Nov-2010" to "will leave Hong Kong for its destination on 15-Nov-2010".


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> Probably not a good idea. Debris ( dust, dirt, moisture ) might collect on the emitter and mess it up. I suggest finding some clear thin plastic that you can cut to make a temporary lens. Then order up a new lens. The coated lenses are the best. You just need to know the size. See link.
> 
> Sorry, this queston almost got by me. Actually, no...not unless you are very the near the event horizon of a "Gravitational Singularity". However if you use a Penrose-Hawking isolation field emitter ( for stabilization ) even then you should have no worries. ( *References: "The Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy" and Wikipedia ) :smilewinkgrin:


Nice. Thanks for helping a fellow biker and LED torch fan. :thumbsup: I searched a few times for a 35mm lens and came up with nothing, so I am pretty stoked (for lack of a better term).
Oh, and I will surely stay away from an event horizon of a "Gravitational Singularity".


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

IMHO said:


> Nice. Thanks for helping a fellow biker and LED torch fan. :thumbsup: I searched a few times for a 35mm lens and came up with nothing, so I am pretty stoked (for lack of a better term).
> Oh, and I will surely stay away from an event horizon of a "Gravitational Singularity".


Your welcome..I've never ordered from that link before so let me know how it works out for you. That *UCL lens looks really nice, almost invisible to the eye. I've been using anti-reflective coating on my eye glasses for years and it rocks. No doubt using it on a torch lens can only make the torch seem brighter. The ones sold by D/X are "suppose" to include coated lenses but when I exam them I don't see ANY coating at all. ( When held at an angle to a light source, anti-reflective coating gives off a slightly greenish or blueish tint. ) Heck, I might order a couple of these myself. 



> Originally Posted by IMHO
> Oh, and I will surely stay away from an event horizon of a "Gravitational Singularity".


...As well you should. Particularly, stay away from the local events...namely, any thread having to do with the Magicshines. Once you post in that black hole you can never get out...like me. "...Spock, help me Spock"........


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

It's arrived 

The Auroro SST-50, and so far ( awaiting night test ), it looks good, nice blue colour which I likes, looks pretty bright, nice tight well focused spot should be great head mounted.

Medium is a tad under the XP-G torch I've got.

Tad heavy but should be fine on my helmet on it's own.

Find out tonight, if it's not foggy still, head torch + fog ='s 2ft visibility especially with a blue light.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Looks pretty bright, leaves my SF15 ( it's not 100% ) and the original MC-E in the dark, I'd say the same as 2.5 XP-G's with a similar sized spot but better focused.

Strange looking LED can't see the 6 Die's I was expecting maybe just hidden by it's difuser though ???

No chance I can try it out on the bike tonight though  FOG City!!


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## p_cycle (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected]! the status on the hongkongpost just changed to " being processed for departure from Hong Kong as of 19-Nov-2010"
talk about slow shipping.

and to add insult to injury Turveyd bashes my, en route for almost a month, sf-15.
hey Turveyd can you post a little bit more info of sf15 vs sst50.?
the link or sku of your exact purchase would be nice also.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

p_cycle said:


> [email protected]! the status on the hongkongpost just changed to " being processed for departure from Hong Kong as of 19-Nov-2010"
> talk about slow shipping.
> 
> and to add insult to injury Turveyd bashes my, en route for almost a month, sf-15.
> ...


no need to worry about your new light, the SST50 that I believe he's talking about costs more than twice as much and is too long IMHO to be very usable on a bike. The SF15, with as little experience as I have with it so far, is still a really good light especially for such a low price

here's the link


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## urban turban (Dec 15, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> My favorite bar torch to date is this one > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12060


Which model is this? The link is down now.

Looks like I'm going to go for a flashlight now that the MS 900s are having the battery recalls. I'm glad this happened because the flashlights seem to be a much better deal. More bang for the $$$

If I'm going for a two light setup, one on the bars, and one on the helmet, which 2 flashlights would you recommend and why with a $100 budget including the mount, cables, charger, batteries etc?

I'm assuming I want something with a flood pattern on the bars and one with a spot pattern for the helmet. It looks like a lot of these flashlights are not available on DX anymore including the MTE SF-15... I'll be putting in an order this weekend, so links would be appreciated.


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

I'm in the exact same boat. I was going to order a Magicshine setup this week, but just never got around to it and now the latest. 

I'm still considering doing the lights and building up my own battery, but this thread has me leaning toward 2 or 3 torches.

I'm just trying to find some sort of a consensus on a nice setup that won't break the bank.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

urban turban said:


> Which model is this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll be danged! Looks like almost all the good stuff is sold out on D/X. Well... ..This one is an Aurora P-7 5-mode on D/X and similar to the 12060 but is using a different driver....OR...you could try ChinaGoods. They have THIS MTE P-7 5-mode which most likely is the same as the D/X sku12060 but unfortunately they are asking a lot more money. I bought my 12060 for about $30.

Now for the helmet I would recommend a good XP-G or E torch. I'll get back later with some links.

**Update: The Aurora P-7 torch I linked to looks to have the same diameter reflector as the 12060.
Also, according to the reviewers, the mode sequence is the exact same as the 12060 as well. The measured current draws ( per mode ) are about the same as the 12060. Looks to me the only difference is the brand ( Aurora vs. MTE ) however one reviewer said the threads on the Aurora were not so smooth. Not really a big deal as long as it works although the MTE version that I have has the smoothest of threads. Definitely the best built torch I currently own.


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

urban turban said:


> If I'm going for a two light setup, one on the bars, and one on the helmet, which 2 flashlights would you recommend and why with a $100 budget including the mount, cables, charger, batteries etc?
> 
> I'm assuming I want something with a flood pattern on the bars and one with a spot pattern for the helmet. It looks like a lot of these flashlights are not available on DX anymore including the MTE SF-15... I'll be putting in an order this weekend, so links would be appreciated.


I browsed these threads for about a week, and ordered some earlier this week. I was bummed that the 12060 was no longer available (it was when I first started researching  ), but I ordered a different torch (SF-15) for the bars which is now showing out of stock as well (22567). For the mount I got this. Actually, this torch will be my backup & loaner bar light as I recently got a MS 1400 light head and am working on a DIY battery pack for that.

For the helmet I ordered this torch and this reflector to make it more throwy. I'll rig up something simple as a helmet mount. I could also use it as a loaner, so I got this bar mount for it.

I also got 4 batteries and a charger. Here's my order, well under $100:


```
SKU	Product or Service Name								Quantity	Price
22567	MTE SF-15 SSC P7-D-SXO 5-Mode Memory 900-Lumen LED Flashlight (1*18650)		x01 		$27.90
39359 	UltraFire WF-501B MC-E (BIN M) 5-Mode 800-Lumen LED Flashlight (1*18650)	x01 		$20.00
05937 	26.5mm Smooth Aluminum Drop-in Module Set (without Emitter)			x01 		$2.85
31871 	Universal Adjustable Bicycle Mount for Flashlights (2cm~4cm Diameter)		x01 		$2.41
15342 	Universal Bicycle Mount (22mm~32.8mm)						x01 		$3.75
06105 	Digital Li-Ion 18650 Battery Charger						x01 		$7.39
26247 	UltraFire Protected 18650 3.7V 2600mAh Lithium Batteries (2-Pack)		x02 		$20.60
Total: $84.91
```
Now just have to wait for them to be shipped. I see my order status is "Packaging" which means they may arrive by Christmas, in time for my wife & kids to wrap them and give them to me


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

No, I've got this 1, single 18650 it's 44mm front end makes it slightly heavier than a normal P60 torch, but it's less than 2 x P60's which is what I normally use, but 3x's the power so it's all good!!

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.33615

Compared it to a Magic Shine tonight, left that for dead totally, that had a yellow light and more flood to be fair, but head mounted this is the baby.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

random walk said:


> I browsed these threads for about a week, and ordered some earlier this week. I was bummed that the 12060 was no longer available (it was when I first started researching  ), but I ordered a different torch (SF-15) for the bars which is now showing out of stock as well (22567). For the mount I got this. Actually, this torch will be my backup & loaner bar light as I recently got a MS 1400 light head and am working on a DIY battery pack for that.


Okay, for those who still want it...The SKU12060 MTE P-7 5-mode is available as is the the SF-15 P-7 D-bin. The SF-15 version is 4-mode. Same as the D/X version only minus the SOS function ( which is better ) Price is about the same as D/X. See Links below.

Kaidomain MTE 12060 version;

Kaidomain version of SF-15.


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

ordered 3 of the mte sf-15 in the 16th of november status says packing. did the ems i hope i get it before christmas. another note the mte sf-15 isnt on the site any more.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

alphaqforever247 said:


> ordered 3 of the mte sf-15 in the 16th of november status says packing. did the ems i hope i get it before christmas. another note the mte sf-15 isnt on the site any more.


Yes, we know D/X is out. Did you read ( my ) post just above yours?  Kaidomain has the SF-15. I put one in my cart just to see what happened and it looks fine. A couple days ago though they too were out of both the 12060 and the SF-15 but now both are listing again on their web site. Follow my previous links while they're still good.  Who knows when D/X will restock their inventory ( or when Kaidomain will run out ).


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yes, we know D/X is out. Did you read ( my ) post just above yours?  Kaidomain has the SF-15. I put one in my cart just to see what happened and it looks fine. A couple days ago though they too were out of both the 12060 and the SF-15 but now both are listing again on their web site. Follow my previous links while they're still good.  Who knows when D/X will restock their inventory ( or when Kaidomain will run out ).


ohh sorry didnt see the post i get kinda of confused on how these forums work with the whole if u reply to a post it goes under it instead of the last page.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I know there 50% more money, but there 50% more output as a head torch that SST-50 is the baby, the SF15 was good from DX, mate had a different version of that from BOB I think it was bigger reflector more of a punch but heavier.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

I wish there was a distributor that had warehouses in North America somewhere instead of ordering from China. Yeah it's cheap, but damn... it sucks to wait a month to get stuff.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

alphaqforever247 said:


> ohh sorry didnt see the post i get kinda of confused on how these forums work with the whole if u reply to a post it goes under it instead of the last page.


You need to change your view to "LINEAR" over on the top right hand side of the blue square area with the pull down "display modes". It's probably set to something else like hybrid.


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## urban turban (Dec 15, 2009)

random walk said:


> ...For the helmet I ordered this torch and this reflector to make it more throwy. I'll rig up something simple as a helmet mount. I could also use it as a loaner, so I got this bar mount for it...


Thanks Cat-man-do and random walk for the suggestions.

I ended up buying the SKU 15740 Aurora as a flood light for the handlebars, and the SKU 39359 UltraFire with the smooth drop in module for my helmet. With batteries, charger, bar mount, and expedited shipping the order came out to a little over $100. That is an excellent deal considering the MS 900 is $90.


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## urban turban (Dec 15, 2009)

Jim311 said:


> ... it sucks to wait a month to get stuff.


Does it really take that long for them to ship the goods? Are they building them after they get the order??? I may need to call them or send them an email and see if I can encourage them to move things along. Rough draft below:



> Hello,
> 
> I expect my order to be shipped no later than 1-2 days after my order is placed. I am not accustomed to waiting for so long for my order to be shipped. The days are getting shorter and I will soon find myself in a dark place in need of your lights.
> 
> ...


But in all seriousness.... a *MONTH?!?!* that's just crazy

Edit: I just saw this on their wiki. The time it takes to get your order delivered. This still does not explain for an order taking a month to arrive if the product is in stock and shipped via EMS.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

urban turban said:


> Does it really take that long for them to ship the goods? Are they building them after they get the order??? I may need to call them or send them an email and see if I can encourage them to move things along. Rough draft below:
> 
> But in all seriousness.... a *MONTH?!?!* that's just crazy
> 
> Edit: I just saw this on their wiki. The time it takes to get your order delivered. This still does not explain for an order taking a month to arrive if the product is in stock and shipped via EMS.


I didn't do EMS, but it took almost three weeks for my order to leave Hong Kong. However, my situation wasn't actually DealExtreme's fault. Hong Kong Post recevied my package from Deal Extreme and registered it in their system a couple business days after my order, then it sat in processing at HKP for a couple weeks before shipping.

Either way, the time and confusion (and strange SF-15 problems) was frustrating enough that I've reconsidered my plan for now to recommend all my friends to buy these torches and accessories so they can ride with me


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

urban turban said:


> Does it really take that long for them to ship the goods? Are they building them after they get the order??? I may need to call them or send them an email and see if I can encourage them to move things along. Rough draft below:
> 
> But in all seriousness.... a *MONTH?!?!* that's just crazy
> 
> Edit: I just saw this on their wiki. The time it takes to get your order delivered. This still does not explain for an order taking a month to arrive if the product is in stock and shipped via EMS.


You get what you pay for. If you think they're going to make exceptions for you I think you'll be disappointed. You're paying 1 cent to have something shipped all the way across the planet.


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## urban turban (Dec 15, 2009)

Jim311 said:


> You get what you pay for. If you think they're going to make exceptions for you I think you'll be disappointed. You're paying 1 cent to have something shipped all the way across the planet.


I paid $12.72 for expedited shipping, which I admit is a small cost for a shipment from Hong Kong, but it's also 1,272x more than 1 cent. 

Their wiki states that it takes 1-3 days for them to ship items that are in stock, and I assume that the items from my order are in stock when the status changes from "Pending" to "Packaging." My expectations are not unfounded.


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

The status on mine has been "packaging" for 3 days now.

Not too concerned. I saw enough comments in here that this is the worst time of year to get anything expeditiously from DX, so I've tempered my expectations.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

urban turban said:


> Does it really take that long for them to ship the goods? Are they building them after they get the order??? I may need to call them or send them an email and see if I can encourage them to move things along. Rough draft below:
> 
> But in all seriousness.... a *MONTH?!?!* that's just crazy
> 
> Edit: I just saw this on their wiki. The time it takes to get your order delivered. This still does not explain for an order taking a month to arrive if the product is in stock and shipped via EMS.


I think the link explains a lot. If you live in the USA, China is halfway around the world. I think most of the delays have to do with supply and demand. When demand for certain items is high, shipping slows to a crawl.

I'm more tolerant of the delay because first, I'm not paying for shipping and the item is inexpensive. Secondly, when I was growing up there was no internet. If you ordered anything from anywhere it took weeks just to get your mailed order. Then it took 6 weeks or more to get your order to you. ( No UPS, FEDX..etc ) Nowadays, if your item is in-stock and business is slow, you should get your stuff in about three weeks. If they have run out of stuff and orders are booming maybe a month. If you order anywhere near one of their holidays expect another 2 week delay. The worse time of year to order from N. American is when Daylight savings time ends and the impending Christmas rush begins. All things considered, if you are ordering now you will be lucky as hell to get it by Christmas.


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## urban turban (Dec 15, 2009)

I understand that they are bogged down with orders since everyone is scrambling to get lights for the winter, but still... a month is a pretty long time. In any case, my order is in so I'll have to figure something out until the lights arrive. I can't complain about the price!

I will update later with pictures and the shipping time.


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

shipping was very fast for me i order on the 16th of november and go the email today the 22nd that it shipped out i did choose ems so im hoping to get it late this week or early next week since its holiday thursday.


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

gticlay said:


> You need to change your view to "LINEAR" over on the top right hand side of the blue square area with the pull down "display modes". It's probably set to something else like hybrid.


ohh thanks this makes things so much easier this is the only forums that i ever encounterd with that weird post form.


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

random walk said:



> The status on mine has been "packaging" for 3 days now.
> 
> Not too concerned. I saw enough comments in here that this is the worst time of year to get anything expeditiously from DX, so I've tempered my expectations.


mine said that for 3 days then the 4th day it changed to shipped.


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

I placed an order on 10/21 for a SKYRAY S-R5 Cree XPE-R4 (Item# 32749) and a TrustFire TR-801 (Item# 13095) with a couple mounts (to be shipped to NC). It arrived today (11/22).

On 10/25 I ordered a UniqueFire R5 Cree XPG (Item# 32721) and some batteries. This arrived on the on 11/17. So the items I ordered 5 days later arrived 5 days earlier..

On a second note, yes, I ordered the identical looking #32749 & #32721. One has OP reflector and one is smooth. The light output and pattern seem identical other than the UniqueFire has a smoother transition from the hot spot outward. The Skyray had a slight halo around the hot spot. 
I used the Uniquefire on my helmet during a group ride (no bar light, on familiar trails) for just over 2 hours with no noticeable loss in light. It is quite the thrower. Coming off the trail, riding next to a buddy, I noticed that our light beam and brightness seemed nearly identical (albeit the light color was slightly off). Turns out he was using a new NiteRider 200. So if one is to believe that Nitrider is close to accurate with it's lumen rating, this would help to solidify the already accepted argument that 18650 (and likely other) powered DX lights are (due to drivers, battery power etc.) ~60% of stated lumen. Still, bright enough. Though the hot spot was pretty tight and I would not mind a bit more brightness spread out, this is indeed a very bright light with good run time--so this may be my new go-to helmet mounted light.


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

My SF-15 finally arrived today. Wow! It was worth the wait. Looks solid and well built to me - no problems.

I was fairly impressed with a couple of Q5 zoom flashlights when I got them, but together, they're just not enough light for me to feel comfortable on single track. The single P7 makes them look like toys. Planning on building a simple dual xm-l for my helmet this winter to use with the p7 on the handlebars.


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

alphaqforever247 said:


> mine said that for 3 days then the 4th day it changed to shipped.


Looks like they just didn't update the status on mine. "Packaging" on 11/20, just now changed to "Shipped" on 11/20 with a tracking #. In time for Xmas, hopefully. No biggie if not.


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

who picks up the ems when it gets to the states usps ups fed ex? also when the items come in are the battaries chraged? if not should i fully charge the battery first before texting the torch or juss charge a little then test?


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Put them on charge for 10 - 20 mins then test, just to make sure it's a fair test incase there completely flat, then fully charge for first use!!


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

I went ahead and bit the bullet: 3 of http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39359 with 6 batteries, a charger, and 2 mounts. $100.46 total, hopefully they get here this year.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

alphaqforever247 said:


> who picks up the ems when it gets to the states usps ups fed ex? also when the items come in are the battaries chraged? if not should i fully charge the battery first before texting the torch or juss charge a little then test?


United States Postal Service

Batteries are about 50% charged

Yes, try them, but then charge before "use"


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

SuperJett, I've got 1 of those, they make good bar lights but think 400Lumens a pop not 800, good run time, but you'll need both on your bars to be much use on there own and a flood totally so no use on your head.


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

Turveyd said:


> SuperJett, I've got 1 of those, they make good bar lights but think 400Lumens a pop not 800, good run time, but you'll need both on your bars to be much use on there own and a flood totally so no use on your head.


I have a Life Gear 210 lumen spot that I keep in the house that I'll probably swap for one of these on my helmet. I bought 2 bar mounts thinking I'd need both of them.

I was looking at 2 Aurora P7 torches but last minute decided to try this. Plus, most of the trails I'll be riding at night aren't very fast so I may not need that much throw most of the time.


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## rgg2201473 (Oct 26, 2007)

I ordered an SF-15 yesterday at Kaidomain and my order says "back-ordered". At the time it said that it was in stock. It's poor customer service of course. Now i'm trying to decide whether I should cancel or wait a few days as the cust serv rep is suggesting.
(The email says: 
Hi,
S000751 2032 Cell Battery (25pcs)
S005773 Multi-function Flashlight Mount
S007469 MTE SF-15 SSC P7-D-SXO 4-Mode Memory 900-Lumen LED Flashlight (1*18650) 
are the items which haven't been collected. )


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

SuperJETT said:


> I have a Life Gear 210 lumen spot that I keep in the house that I'll probably swap for one of these on my helmet. I bought 2 bar mounts thinking I'd need both of them.
> 
> I was looking at 2 Aurora P7 torches but last minute decided to try this. Plus, most of the trails I'll be riding at night aren't very fast so I may not need that much throw most of the time.


A while back ( on this thread somewhere ) someone else posted that they bought the same torch ( http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39359 ) and really liked it. This torch is using an M-bin MC-E emitter drop-in. It will likely be a bit floody but the narrow reflector of the drop-in will help narrow it. The ad states they are driven @ 2000ma. I would tend to think the output would look more like 500-550lm on high but I don't own one of these drop-ins to say for sure. The brightness will really depend on just how much current the driver is actually providing. Anyway I think you will be pleased with the 2-bar, 1-helmet set-up you are going to use. Post up when you get them to let us know how you like them.


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> A while back ( on this thread somewhere ) someone else posted that they bought the same torch ( http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39359 ) and really liked it. This torch is using an M-bin MC-E emitter drop-in. It will likely be a bit floody but the narrow reflector of the drop-in will help narrow it. The ad states they are driven @ 2000ma. I would tend to think the output would look more like 500-550lm on high but I don't own one of these drop-ins to say for sure. The brightness will really depend on just how much current the driver is actually providing. Anyway I think you will be pleased with the 2-bar, 1-helmet set-up you are going to use. Post up when you get them to let us know how you like them.


That's what I'm hoping. I may measure current just for giggles, but as long as they're bright and work, I'll be happy.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

Turveyd said:


> SuperJett, I've got 1 of those, they make good bar lights but think 400Lumens a pop not 800, good run time, but you'll need both on your bars to be much use on there own and a flood totally so no use on your head.





Cat-man-do said:


> A while back ( on this thread somewhere ) someone else posted that they bought the same torch ( http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39359 ) and really liked it. This torch is using an M-bin MC-E emitter drop-in. It will likely be a bit floody but the narrow reflector of the drop-in will help narrow it. The ad states they are driven @ 2000ma. I would tend to think the output would look more like 500-550lm on high but I don't own one of these drop-ins to say for sure. The brightness will really depend on just how much current the driver is actually providing. Anyway I think you will be pleased with the 2-bar, 1-helmet set-up you are going to use. Post up when you get them to let us know how you like them.


It depends as the QC is kinda fishy. The comment section of that sku had people posting different current ratings, one thread has two 2.9A and a 2.5A, so it varies. But these lights are so cheap even if you're getting 2.0A, you're still getting a really good deal.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I think mine has heat damage and is down a lot ( despite packing the P60 drop in out with Alu Foil ) power wise sadly.

Likely put my Zoom to Flood + XPG on the bars, that MC-E P60 + a BIG MC-E ( first 1 in the UK most likely ) isn't working for me currently.

I Like BLUE not yellow, suites my eyes much better and seems just so much brighter especially on dark wet floors.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

If it's heat damage the LED tint should get bluer. I overamped an xp-g, it gets bluer. 

The P60 drop in's biggest weakness is indeed the heat dissipation with quad die leds like p7 and mc-e, aluminum foils won't cut it. I used aluminum pop can shims and never had any problem.


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

If you don't want to wait for overseas, you might luck up on something over at cpfmarketplace. I don't know anything about the sellers - joined recently to take part in the cutter xm-l group buy that has seems to have stalled.

Here's an example of a guy selling several, some p7's. He still has one.

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?241668-Many-lights-cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep/page2


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## urban turban (Dec 15, 2009)

Update: I placed my order on 11/20 and received confirmation today 11/24 that my order has shipped. The email states that with EMS Express I should expect delivery in 3-4 business days. Most likely I will have them around December 1st. Definitely didn't take a month...


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

checked the usps tracking and it says my package is inbound into customs?!? does this mean a delay?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mrbubbles said:


> If it's heat damage the LED tint should get bluer. I overamped an xp-g, it gets bluer.
> 
> The P60 drop in's biggest weakness is indeed the heat dissipation with quad die leds like p7 and mc-e, aluminum foils won't cut it. I used aluminum pop can shims and never had any problem.


The Ultra-Fire WF-501B torch host is not really great at dissipating heat. That's why most of the drop-ins made for these torches are = or < 2000ma. 
The SST-50 drop-in I have is pushing 1500ma on high but the larger single die emitters seem to be able to handle heat better. Some of the custom drop-ins sold on CPF use better mounting solutions to help dissipate the heat of the larger current pulls. Still, with the smaller torches like the 501B it's probably a good idea to shim ( or _pot_ as it is sometimes referred to ) the drop-in. Right now I'm using shims on the SST-50 and it seems to be holding up fine.

Currently I have an XP-G drop-in on the way to replace the one I burned up at the end of the summer season. This time I'll not make the mistake of leaving the reflector too loose. Since the reflector is made of aluminum it is REAL important that it have good contact with the brass emitter mount to help dissipate the heat. I have yet to purchase any copper tape for potting but that too is on my "must have" list. I was going to buy one of the Name brand XP-G's drop-ins using a 1500ma driver but decided ( at least for now ) to just buy one of the cheaper ( Kaidomain ) versions. The last one I had ran at 1300ma which I felt was just great. I just hope the new one is using the same driver.


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## adumb (Nov 29, 2009)

ordered this light with these batteries

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.36356

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.28677

i have no idea really about this stuff. the one part i don't understand is the 2600mah rating what exactly does that number mean. my light says 2500mah rating and my batteries i ordered are 2600mah, will they both play nice together?

also got a charger and like four different mounts. got one fenix mount that i am sure will be the best and then ordered three other misc ones that are only like 3 bucks a piece so if they stink i am not really concerned. never would have thought buying flashlights would have been so exciting.


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

mah is milliamp-hours which is the capacity of batteries (for this context). 2600 means it can provide 2600 milliamps for an hour, or 26 milliamps for 100 hours, etc depending on the load. 

The light is rated for current draw of 2500 milliamps, not milliamp-hours, which means it should pull 2500 milliamps at full power. So, if it's pulling 2500 ma and you have 2600ma-h batteries, you should be able to get slightly over an hour of runtime if everything is at spec. Don't expect that though because DX's stuff is known for being spotty on quality control.


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## adumb (Nov 29, 2009)

alright so if that is correct you want a torch with a low milliamp draw and you want to get a battery with a high milliamp an hour rating to get the most run time correct?


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

That would give the most runtime, but more current typically means brighter.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

adumb said:


> alright so if that is correct you want a torch with a low milliamp draw and you want to get a battery with a high milliamp an hour rating to get the most run time correct?


Most people want a battery that can supply the longest run times. Usually, the higher the mAh rating the more run time you will get. LED's are current controlled devices. They are designed to run at different maximum levels depending on the design of the LED. The P-7 led is designed to run at 2800ma max. Usually torches use drivers ( electronic circuits ) than limit and control the current to the LED. This gives you the ability to vary the brightness (depending on the number of mode controls supplied by the driver ). Your set-up is a 3-mode, High, low and flash/strobe.

The torch you bought is using a ( removable ) drop-in module which houses the driver and LED. These set-ups are usually supplied with a driver that outputs a lower current than the max level set for the more larger LED's ( like yours ). Max current will likely be somewhere around 2000ma. Custom drop-ins are available that use more current but usually cost a lot more ( and produce more heat ). The more current to the LED the hotter the torch becomes. Air flow is real import when using torches. Never use the high mode for long when sitting still. Excessive heat can destroy the LED.


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## tlymtb (Jan 23, 2005)

I am just curious if anyone has any beam shots of the sf-15 against any brand name bike lights for comparison? I have the dang MS lights and was only 9 days outside the 90 day full refund offer so I'm stuck waiting for who knows how long to get new batteries. Needless to say it's smack dab in the middle of night riding season and I need lights! Don't want to break the bank though. Thanks!


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

tlymtb said:


> I am just curious if anyone has any beam shots of the sf-15 against any brand name bike lights for comparison? I have the dang MS lights and was only 9 days outside the 90 day full refund offer so I'm stuck waiting for who knows how long to get new batteries. Needless to say it's smack dab in the middle of night riding season and I need lights! Don't want to break the bank though. Thanks!


I don't have pics, but I ride with a MS900 on my helmet, and an SF-15 on the bars, and they are very close to being the same beam (brighness, beam pattern, color). So if you own a MS900, then you already have an idea of what the SF-15 will be like, just shorter run time.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

deleted by CAT


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

just got my 3 sf-15s today initail test seems like all are working a ok.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tlymtb said:


> I am just curious if anyone has any beam shots of the sf-15 against any brand name bike lights for comparison? *I have the dang MS lights and was only 9 days outside the 90 day full refund offer so I'm stuck waiting for who knows how long to get new batteries.* Needless to say it's smack dab in the middle of night riding season and I need lights! Don't want to break the bank though. Thanks!


Just remember, a battery recall isn't like a pharmaceutical recall. I've had recall issues on almost every car I've owned. That doesn't mean you stop driving the car. In my case I never once went back to the dealer to get the free repair/update. If the battery still works I would use it but that's my opinion. Just charge it in a safe area. Recall or no recall this is the best thing to do regardless.

Why wait for a "New and Improved" MS battery? No telling how long that wait will be. Why not just buy another battery, something like this ( see link ). The Tenergy cells have gotten good reviews. All you have to do is use the connector from the old battery ( that is if it's not working ) All you need is a few inexpensive tools....cheap multi-meter, cheap soldering iron, solder, flux, some heat shrink tubing, electrical tape. All of this stuff can be bought at various stores, ie...Radio Shack, Walmart, Lowes...etc. I can't see why you couldn't use the old MS charger since it is the same voltage battery.

I'll see what I can do about putting up some beam shots of the SF-15. ( no promises though ) Camera batteries on charge as I write. I'll compare to Dinotte 600L, SKU12060 and maybe some others.


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> Just remember, a battery recall isn't like a pharmaceutical recall. I've had recall issues on almost every car I've owned. That doesn't mean you stop driving the car. In my case I never once went back to the dealer to get the free repair/update. If the battery still works I would use it but that's my opinion. Just charge it in a safe area. Recall or no recall this is the best thing to do regardless.


If the batteries are a fire hazard, there is a bit more to it, and just because you've never had a car recall done, doesn't mean that's the smart thing to do. Our Mazda has a power steering recall out: the steering can fail completely, and that's not a great thing to have happen in a turn because my wife was hit by a car just 2 months ago that lost his steering in the middle of a turn. Darn right we're getting our car fixed. Luckily the guy was only doing 10mph or so when he hit her and nobody was hurt.

If anyone does continue to use the batteries, take precautions like storing them in a metal container, preferably not in your house.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

SuperJETT said:


> If the batteries are a fire hazard, there is a bit more to it, and just because you've never had a car recall done, doesn't mean that's the smart thing to do. Our Mazda has a power steering recall out: the steering can fail completely, and that's not a great thing to have happen in a turn because my wife was hit by a car just 2 months ago that lost his steering in the middle of a turn. Darn right we're getting our car fixed. Luckily the guy was only doing 10mph or so when he hit her and nobody was hurt.
> 
> If anyone does continue to use the batteries, take precautions like storing them in a metal container, preferably not in your house.


Well yeah, I suppose you're right, not having my car fixed wasn't necessarily the smartest thing to do. I was just making a point. The point was, just because someone else had a problem doesn't mean you are going to have the same problem. Most of the time recalls are issued because of legal issues. However it needs to be said that anything made with human hands can fail. Just ask the people who work for NASA.

I drive for a living. I've had more things fail on a vehicle than I care to think about. I've had Power steering go out, I've had ABS brakes lock up when they shouldn't have. Recall or no recall, stuff happens. For a lark I just did a search on recalls for my own car. Right now one is out for the fuel delivery system ( fuel pump ) , brake light switch and something else with the gas tank entry system (?). I had the brake switch replaced last year only because I knew it wasn't working right ( would stick on and drain my battery ). Didn't know it was a recall, my loss in that case. The other stuff I'll keep an eye on but my car runs fine. I see no reason to have people tear into my car unless I think something is wrong. At least fuel pump failures aren't life threatening and the gas goes into my car fine. The other day, a lady at work hit a truck from behind. We marveled because the air bag never went off ( even though there was heavy front end damage ). Sometimes stuff just happens. When it happens to a number of people recalls go out. Just what that magic number is I can only guess at.

I have no problem with being cautious. Still, stuff happens to everyone no matter how cautious they are. As for me, I'm still not going to throw my Li-ion babies out with the bathwater if you catch my drift. FWIW, ANYTHING electrical is a fire hazard. Just how many Christmas trees go up in smoke every year ?...well...lets not go there.  Anyway, sorry for the drift off topic. Let us each draw the line of caution where we see fit. :thumbsup:


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

MaximusHQ said:


> Thank you very much for this info. I noticed the light was working like it should today and did a test to try out your theory. I fully charged one of my batteries and low and behold the darn high, strobe, and s.o.s. weren't working again. I ran the light on medium for 5 minutes and tried all the modes again, but nothing, then I tried again every 5 minutes and at about 20 minutes of running on medium all of the modes worked as they are supposed to. I tried this with 2 batteries and they both exhibit the exact same behavior. They both start working as they should after about 20 minutes of use on the batteries and they continue to work as they should thereafter.
> 
> The question now is, should I get a different type of battery and that will solve the issue? I have these now: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26247 Thanks for all the suggestions, solutions, and info everyone.


hey i am having the same issues have you found any fixed to this besides discharging them for a while? i have 3 sf15s and they all do it so i know it has to be the battery i have the same ones like u have.


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## tlymtb (Jan 23, 2005)

Thanks so much for all the info! How do you guys using the torches/flashlights get past the short run times? My night rides usually are at least 2 hours and sometimes 3.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

tlymtb said:


> Thanks so much for all the info! How do you guys using the torches/flashlights get past the short run times? My night rides usually are at least 2 hours and sometimes 3.


People either mod them for battery packs or they bring spare batteries with them and switch out during a rest stop.


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## matthewtucker (Aug 5, 2008)

What charger should I get for protected 18650 batteries, such as these:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.28677

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5790

My two concerns are safety and speed of charge.

What do I need to be concerned about safety-wise charging these things with some of the inexpensive DX chargers?

Thanks,
MT


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

Any 1 have a fix on the sf 15 and only 2 modes working on a full charged battey? the only fix i have is to dicharge the battery for 20 mins ish before high and the sttrobe modes work.


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## Joshtp (Sep 19, 2009)

I use 2 501B's.... good little body...

the one on my bars has the 3 mode P7, and the one on my lid has a 5 mode XPG.


Tis an excellent set up!


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

alphaqforever247 said:


> hey i am having the same issues have you found any fixed to this besides discharging them for a while? i have 3 sf15s and they all do it so i know it has to be the battery i have the same ones like u have.


No I haven't found another solution yet. I just charge two batteries use one until is runs down a bit and by the time I need to use the second battery it is discharged enough from sitting around and usually don't have an issue with that one. I bought 4 of those batteries when I ordered the light so I will be stuck using them like that for a while. I learned to live with it for the low cost of the flashlight.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Haven't given my SST-50 torch a proper test yet, suspect its totally not regulated and it'll dim considerably as it's really taking a whack out of the batteries, but combination of Fog, then Ill now ICE everywhere has stalled it 

I also fear it might actually fry batterys as the draw is just to high, we shall see.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I've seen that issue with the fresh battery I don't know if it's over charged or just tripped the batterys protection, running in a lower draw torch solves the issue though, then putting back into the SF-15, my charger goes all flashy aswell if I put them back on.

haven't had the issue recently I'll add, out the charger and hot into the torch is where the issue is, wait 30mins till the ride then never a issue.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tlymtb said:


> Thanks so much for all the info! How do you guys using the torches/flashlights get past the short run times? My night rides usually are at least 2 hours and sometimes 3.


Speaking for myself, I use the 5-mode P-7 torches. When run on the mid-mode, the torch will provide about 200lm of light and run for about three hours. High mode is used only for faster sections. When used this way I can easily do a two hour+ ride without having to change a battery. For longer rides just bring more batteries.

How you use the torch depends on the terrain and the duration of the ride. On a ride with a very long climb ( think true mountain ), I would use the low and mid modes till I get to the top of the mountain. Before starting the descent I would switch to a fresh battery so I can run high mode all the wall down ( usually that requires about 20-30 minutes of run time on high ). A fresh cell provides 50-60 minutes of run time on high when using a P-7 or MC-E torch. If I use a torch helmet mounted I usually only turn it on for faster sections ( or sections with lots of turns ). The helmet torch I just set to high and turn on/off when needed.

When the battery starts to run out of juice it will slowly begin to dim. Output will noticeably drop before the battery protection cuts the juice. Personally I've never run a cell to the point where it cut out. Only takes about 30 sec to switch out a battery for a bar mounted torch. Maybe a minute or two for the helmet. Just remember, when using torches ALWAYS use more than one so you have back-up.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Have you all seen the new XML LED flashlight?
http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=11097


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

New Tech, looking at the Spec's I'd say a realistic 700lumen of a single 18650, the bigger 5mm LED would suggest a Flood output especially of a torch of that size.

Fighting the urge to click BUY ME!!! Could have a use for it on my bars, with the SST-50 on my head.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I broke, ordered the drop in linked on the other thread, replace my old was 400lumen MC-E P60 drop in which is looking yellow and think 200lumens guess it over heated 

Bar mounted is the plan, BUT if it's anywhere near the SST-50 for head useage I'll drop 2 of them into torches on my head LOL


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## p_cycle (Jul 22, 2006)

i'm excited!
after 40 days I took delivery of my sf15 and it's working.
I got these http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20392 batteries and will see if they eliminate the need for a mild discharge before they work properly. _edit_, they work just fine right out of the charger and straight into sf15 all 5 modes are there.

I'm going to order two 501B in red http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20333. will these get the P60 from kaidomain if I decide to repurpose?


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

KD added a couple more xml's- http://www.kaidomain.com/SearchResult.aspx?SearchKey=xml&CategoryId=-1&SiteId=1

All the wall shots look the same, and they look blue. Is the C8 a P60 host, using the same drop-in?


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## p_cycle (Jul 22, 2006)

so I did the tail cap measurement thing, and unless my cheapo multimeter is way off scale, it only reads 1,1A at 4,15V battery. I checked the battery on itself and the protection circuit limits the current at 5,5A which seems the standard.
so I don't know what to assume.
unscrewed the glass cap and measured at the + - of the pill. 3,4V with 4,12V battery. according to SSC datasheet that sheems in accordance with a 1,1A current. me not happy.

does anyone have a lux meter? cat-man-do, turveyd?
I have this one (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5100) and I would like to compare measurements. I get 5300 lux @1m bullseye.
btw it might be useful to agree on some measurement methodology. like fully charged battery, level flashlight, measurements at 2,4,8meters radial and 5,10 degrees both orizontally and vertically. just a suggestion. you guys are way more experienced, let me know what you think and how it can be improved.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

rlouder said:


> KD added a couple more xml's- http://www.kaidomain.com/SearchResult.aspx?SearchKey=xml&CategoryId=-1&SiteId=1
> 
> All the wall shots look the same, and they look blue. Is the C8 a P60 host, using the same drop-in?


If you hold torch close to the wall sometimes it can look bluish. The camera might also pick that up and enhance it as well. I just held my SST-50 drop-in close to the wall and it looked bluish as well. The thing is if you point it at the ground it looks very neutral white  . I wouldn't worry about the site wall shot. Hopefully it will be bright and very white when used on the trails.


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

I could be wrong but the SF-15s are not avail on DX any more? Anyone find the equivalent? I couldn't...suppose that's just how it goes.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

slcpunk said:


> I could be wrong but the SF-15s are not avail on DX any more? Anyone find the equivalent? I couldn't...suppose that's just how it goes.


SF-15 is available from Kaidomain...see link.

** Update from my previous post: The XM-L is now available at Kaidomain...emitter only, no star. The T-6 bin is listed as "cool white". Usually that will mean it will lean to the blue side of the spectrum. Like I said before though, "usually" it really isn't that noticable ( on the trails ). The XP-G R-5's were "cool white" as well. On the trails they just look very bright white. ( at least the one I had did ). Hopefully the XM-L will be the same.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Well, if anyone really wants an SF-15 I just got one before they sold out at DX and might be interested in selling so I can buy an XML flashlight


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## artemics (Dec 4, 2010)

any ideas as to the diffference between these 2 SF-15's on offer at kaidomain? thanks

$28.80 http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=7793
vs 
$35.16 http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=8726


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

artemics said:


> any ideas as to the diffference between these 2 SF-15's on offer at kaidomain? thanks
> 
> $28.80 http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=7793
> vs
> $35.16 http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=8726


'''

The first link is the actual SF-15. The second link you posted is the MTE torch usually referred to by it's D/X #, SKU12060. It is not another SF-15 but another nice 5-mode P-7 torch.

There was another SF-15 listed on Kaidomain. It was the same as the 5-mode only it listed it as only 4-modes ( minus one of the flash modes ). Of course that might have been an "ad error" that was corrected. If not *_I'd rather have the 4-mode _with one less flash mode to worry about. ( *assuming of course that both have the same max current draw )



gticlay said:


> Well, if anyone really wants an SF-15 I just got one before they sold out at DX and might be interested in selling so I can buy an XML flashlight


Uhhh....I wouldn't be so quick to do that. The SF-15 is one bright little monkey. I'd wait till people start getting the XM-L versions FIRST, start doing reviews,then make the decision. I only bought the XM-L version because *I am a total Torchaholic*.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I found this on ebay... it's not the Kaidomain flashlight:
ebay xml flashlight


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

gticlay said:


> I found this on ebay... it's not the Kaidomain flashlight:
> ebay xml flashlight


Are you sure its not this one? They sure look pretty similar! ( not that its proof or anything...)

Prod:11104


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

slcpunk said:


> Are you sure its not this one? They sure look pretty similar! ( not that its proof or anything...)
> 
> Prod:11104


Nice to know Kaidomain is selling these too. This is the five mode version ( note: this torch is using a XM-L drop-in ) Curiously, D/X is still not listing anything with the XM-L. It could be that they are waiting until the product is *Actually* available before listing. If so, a lot of us who ordered from Kaidomain... ( including me ) are likely in for quite a wait. If I get my stuff in six weeks I'll consider myself lucky.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

DX is always slow to the party well these days, they've got so many torches and products they don't need to be as cutting edge as KD.

Likely a huge run on these so it could still be 6weeks, KD would of normally of atleast shipped, but hey!!


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## moggy82 (Jan 30, 2009)

Turveyd said:


> No, I've got this 1, single 18650 it's 44mm front end makes it slightly heavier than a normal P60 torch, but it's less than 2 x P60's which is what I normally use, but 3x's the power so it's all good!!
> 
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.33615
> 
> Compared it to a Magic Shine tonight, left that for dead totally, that had a yellow light and more flood to be fair, but head mounted this is the baby.


After an hour though the magicshine will still be going strong on full power while your faffing around changing batteries.

And the yellow/green on the magicshine cuts through the fog nicely so better for this time of year!

And at that price you could buy 2 XPG torches, batteries and charger! So for most its not the best option.

I am tempted though to swap my SST-50 into my MS900 though!


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

random walk said:


> I browsed these threads for about a week, and ordered some earlier this week. I was bummed that the 12060 was no longer available (it was when I first started researching  ), but I ordered a different torch (SF-15) for the bars which is now showing out of stock as well (22567). For the mount I got this. Actually, this torch will be my backup & loaner bar light as I recently got a MS 1400 light head and am working on a DIY battery pack for that.
> 
> For the helmet I ordered this torch and this reflector to make it more throwy. I'll rig up something simple as a helmet mount. I could also use it as a loaner, so I got this bar mount for it.
> 
> ...


Shipped on 11/20, received today


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

random walk said:


> Shipped on 11/20, received today


Sweet, my order should be showing up soon then too.


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## moggy82 (Jan 30, 2009)

The SF-15 is back but under a different brand! And Cheaper too...

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.50316


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## deano machineo (Dec 20, 2009)

Torch madness. 
Can someone sum it up for me?; Recommend a couple torches. A good all around workhorse and a high powered unit. Which charger and batteries??
I get on that DX site and get lost with all the damn options.
Isn't there someone here in the states that carries these imports for a little more ? Or is it $300 "Surefire" grade stuff then the imports.
I think this thread would have been very useful if it stuck to some kind of format without all the other fluff. Maybe a chart summarizing the specs, pro, cons, etc..
Isn't there a couple good informative websites out there for torch geeks?


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

deano machineo said:


> Torch madness.
> Can someone sum it up for me?; Recommend a couple torches. A good all around workhorse and a high powered unit. Which charger and batteries??
> I get on that DX site and get lost with all the damn options.
> Isn't there someone here in the states that carries these imports for a little more ? Or is it $300 "Surefire" grade stuff then the imports.
> ...


You could try this place: http://www.sbflashlights.com/ They have tons of cool stuff there.

I e-mailed and asked for a christmas code and they sent me this: SBHOL 10% off....


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

deano machineo said:


> Torch madness.
> Can someone sum it up for me?; Recommend a couple torches. A good all around workhorse and a high powered unit. Which charger and batteries??
> ....


Prices on ebay from US resellers are $15+ more than DX.

If you're looking for a ~300 lumen, Shiningbeam.com (located in US) has an R5 for around $25.

You may want to look at the new xm-l lights for a high powered unit. DX doesn't list them yet, but kiadomain (sp?) shows a few.


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

Got my MC-E's from DX this afternoon, quicker shipping than I expected for sure, 2.5 weeks from order to delivered. 

I got 3 WF-501b mc-e models. Very bright, with the common dark spot in the middle. One has a green tint to it, but not that noticeable unless you are comparing to the others. One quit working but it was just the clickie tightening ring was loose---when the battery was in, the spring pressure would push the switch back and lose contact.

I think the flood patterns will be just fine around here since we don't have very many straight sections that need much throw, but I could be wrong.


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

MaximusHQ said:


> Oh man I received my order today from DX. I ordered the SF-15, batteries and charger. I was all excited and waited patiently while the batteries were charging and when they were done, presto guess what, the darn flashlight is defective. Only two modes work properly, medium and low. The other modes come on for a few seconds then it shuts off. I am disappointed after waiting almost a month for my order to arrive. I was looking forward to playing with the light tonight too.


Yesterday I got my torches (a SF-15 P-7 and 501B MC-E, both 5-mode) and batteries. Without fully charging them, I put a battery in each torch and cycled through all 5 modes -- worked fine. Now with fully charged batteries I get the same condition as yours, on both torches.

Looks like I'll need to discharge a little and see if that rectifies the situation. Thanks to this thread...


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## belljeffw (Feb 10, 2004)

Has anyone purchased from DX through paypal? I have no order number or account, and I'm getting close to paypal's 45 day dispute deadline. So far, DX hasn't responded to email. Besides this thread, the only indication I have they exist at all is they took my money ; )


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

belljeffw said:


> Has anyone purchased from DX through paypal? I have no order number or account, and I'm getting close to paypal's 45 day dispute deadline. So far, DX hasn't responded to email. Besides this thread, the only indication I have they exist at all is they took my money ; )


Yes. I did on my order 3 weeks ago, got an e-mail immediately from Paypal confirming my order and from DX as well. Check your spam folder(s).



> You sent a payment of $100.46 USD to DealExtreme ([email protected])
> 
> It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account.
> Merchant
> ...


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## belljeffw (Feb 10, 2004)

I never received a response from any dealextreme.com address. I'm mostly wondering if the order somehow got screwed up and they don't know they are supposed to send me anything. I have until Tuesday to dispute the charge, or I'll just have to trust DX will come through. I'm going to try their HK phone number tonight...


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

I would go ahead and put the dispute in now. If you're at 40 days already I'd say something is messed up since I just got an order in less than 3 weeks from order to deliver.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Just got my XP-G drop-in from Kaidomain yesterday. Bad driver or something, it got dim and all the modes went out. Bummer. Not sure I'll get another as these things are poorly constructed ( the emitter board moves all over the place ) Anyway, the emitter dome doesn't even poke out the hole in the reflector. What a piece of crap. ( note: took a little over two weeks to get to me ).

On the up side, I bought one of these not too long ago and I've been very pleased with the output. Actually, I only bought it to get the torch host but it turned out the XPE ( drop-in ) emitter has one hell of a kick, very neutral white beam ( compared to XPG ) with very nice throw. I've not really had a chance to ride with it but it looks to have usable throw to 150ft. and the beam spreads out right nicely down the trail. Oh, almost forgot, it also has a better reflector than the XPG ( KD version ). This reflector has a nice hole for the emitter. For $17 it makes for a decent helmet torch. ( and only $3 more than my KD POCrap XP-G drop-in )

Still waiting on the XM-L stuff. Likely not til after Christmas. No worries as long I get it.


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## belljeffw (Feb 10, 2004)

SuperJETT said:


> I would go ahead and put the dispute in now. If you're at 40 days already I'd say something is messed up since I just got an order in less than 3 weeks from order to deliver.


You're probably right, but I'm going to give them until Monday, mostly because I'm lazy, but that will give them 5 days to respond to may last email. Would be nice if they just acknowledged the mistake and sent the order out now. I could live without them another week or two if I knew they were on the way.


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> On the up side, I bought one of these not too long ago and I've been very pleased with the output. Actually, I only bought it to get the torch host but it turned out the XPE ( drop-in ) emitter has one hell of a kick, very neutral white beam ( compared to XPG ) with very nice throw. I've not really had a chance to ride with it but it looks to have usable throw to 150ft. and the beam spreads out right nicely down the trail. Oh, almost forgot, it also has a better reflector than the XPG ( KD version ). This reflector has a nice hole for the emitter. For $17 it makes for a decent helmet torch. ( and only $3 more than my KD POCrap XP-G drop-in )


Bummer about the KD XP-G. I was thinking of following your lead on that (from a few pages back, I think) and updating a XR-E host with that drop-in, to go up 100 lumens or so and use on the helmet. But the XPE host you posted looks promising as-is.

The DX page for that says it has a textured reflector. Do you think a smooth reflector would make a better throw? I guess you'll need some trail time to check out how it looks stock...


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

belljeffw said:


> Has anyone purchased from DX through paypal? I have no order number or account, and I'm getting close to paypal's 45 day dispute deadline. So far, DX hasn't responded to email. Besides this thread, the only indication I have they exist at all is they took my money ; )


That's weird, I used paypal and got both a payment confirmation e-mail from them and an order confirmation from DX with an order # and receipt #. Are you sure you didn't' get a confirmation from DX? If you find one, either of those numbers can be used to check your order status -- you click "My Account" link from the DX main page and enter one of those numbers plus the e-mail addr you used to place the order. You don't need an actual DX account.

Unfortunately once my order showed "shipped," the tracking number wasn't very useful.


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## moggy82 (Jan 30, 2009)

Anyone know of a Cheap 1.5A driven XPG P60 drop in, the thrunite one is a tad expensive, but there has got to be a cheaper alternative about, even 1200/1300 would be nice.


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## jsigone (Aug 25, 2004)

nah Thrunite is the only ones pushing the XPG-r5 bin that hard so far. Bit pricey yes but tested at 400lumens off the front, so that 25% more output is worth the few extra bucks. You can get the thrunite for $35 and get a solorforce body for $22 for a fairly cheap torch. A single 18650 battery should last almost 2hrs, bit lower if you use a 2400mah cell

http://www.sbflashlights.com/Solarforce-Lights-c5/


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

Cat-man-do said:


> On the up side, I bought one of these not too long ago and I've been very pleased with the output. Actually, I only bought it to get the torch host but it turned out the XPE ( drop-in ) emitter has one hell of a kick, very neutral white beam ( compared to XPG ) with very nice throw. I've not really had a chance to ride with it but it looks to have usable throw to 150ft. and the beam spreads out right nicely down the trail. Oh, almost forgot, it also has a better reflector than the XPG ( KD version ). This reflector has a nice hole for the emitter. For $17 it makes for a decent helmet torch. ( and only $3 more than my KD POCrap XP-G drop-in )


the beam shots on the site look relatively similar to the old SF-15 that's discontinued. does it have enough spill to be decent for a bar light as well?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

clarkenstein said:


> the beam shots on the site look relatively similar to the old SF-15 that's discontinued. does it have enough spill to be decent for a bar light as well?


No comparison to the SF-15 which is massively bright ( est 700lm ) and very much a flood/spot combo. This XP-E torch has a very defined hot spot. However the beam spreads out nicely the farther you aim it down the trail. I was going to do a beam shot this week but It just snowed so that puts that out of the question.


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## belljeffw (Feb 10, 2004)

random walk said:


> That's weird, I used paypal and got both a payment confirmation e-mail from them and an order confirmation from DX with an order # and receipt #. Are you sure you didn't' get a confirmation from DX? If you find one, either of those numbers can be used to check your order status -- you click "My Account" link from the DX main page and enter one of those numbers plus the e-mail addr you used to place the order. You don't need an actual DX account.
> 
> Unfortunately once my order showed "shipped," the tracking number wasn't very useful.


Sorry for the slow response. I got sidetracked by work and forgot all about the lights. I also forgot to file a dispute with paypal <sigh>. I did send DX an email with the paypal confirmation number, and never got a response.

I use my work email server for everything, and it doesn't block anything without a virus - and not even all of those. I did look through the server's and my own messages for anything from dealextreme.com.

I think the order just got messed up somehow, and DX has no idea the order exists. I mostly blame myself for not staying on top of it, but unless I can figure out how to get my order (or a refund) they definitely won't get e repeat customer ; )


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## thomasshawn (Nov 17, 2010)

OK on the SF-15 front I have a thread going from a week or so ago about mine. It seems that the flashlight has some current/voltage regulator issue. I have the same issue as several of you where fully charged can't use any mode that uses high beam but "slightly" discharged gives all modes.

I checked and fully charged is 4.2 volts. at about 3.9 volts the other 2 flashing modes work but at 3.7 all modes work and the high beam is really nice.

I'm in an email exchange with DX now about the return issue since they no longer stock this item. I will update as I hear something
Shawn


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Looks like Kaidomain came through with the goods ( Yeah! ). Santa-Postie came knocking on my door today with my XM-L stuff ( torch and drop-in ). I told myself yesterday that if it came before Christmas I was going to wait till Christmas before opening and call it a Christmas gift to myself. I sat there looking at the package for about a minute wiping drool from my mouth. My hands began to to shake. Suddenly the thought occurred to me that maybe the torch "Could" have a defect. What a crap it would be to open it on Christmas day and have it be a dud. That would be a total Christmas F. No way I was gonna let that happen. Sixty seconds later it was in my hot little hands... . Anyway, I only did a quick test and all is fine, it works great. 

For the sake of others I'll do a quick review. The torch body looks a lot like the SF-15 but it is 15mm longer and has a 4mm wider reflector. This makes it bigger than I expected. I quickly compared it to the SF-15. The SF-15 has a much brighter flood pattern but the MTE XM-L has a really kick-ass spot that ( from what I can tell ) is going to out throw all my P-7 and MC-E stuff. It's a little big for helmet use but I think I just might be able to get by since it's just about the same size as my old Aurora MC-E torch which I used helmet mounted for at least a year. Regardless, on the bars will be super sweet as well to help bolster the weakish throw of my triple XP-G....Anyway, I could go on with more details but I'll be a good boy and put it away till Christmas. Can't wait to test the drop-in but that will have to wait till Christmas...can I stand the Stain! :smilewinkgrin: 

Kaidomain must of been in a real hurry to get these out. Mine has no brand markings on it although the ad listed it as an MTE. For what it's worth, the last two orders I placed with KD took about 16 days. That is like Sooooo much better than D/X. :yesnod: As far as I know, DX still has yet to offer anything with an XM-L. It does give me pause.


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## AL904 (Dec 5, 2010)

Hello,

i am new french guy, i read this topic. Lots of information.
I ride once a week 2x20 km . The route is mainly by road ( half in town)
Which first handlebar torch do you recommended ? http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=11104 ?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

AL904 said:


> Hello,
> 
> i am new french guy, i read this topic. Lots of information.
> I ride once a week 2x20 km . The route is mainly by road ( half in town)
> Which first handlebar torch do you recommended ? http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=11104 ?


Frenchy, The one you linked to is using an XM-L drop-in. Not sure what beam pattern it will provide but I'll know by Christmas. It should be very bright though. You might want to wait a while. The XM-L stuff is all new and so there are few reviews at the moment. One thing is quite clear though, the XM-L emitter is sweet, white and very bright. Since you're looking for something for the road I would also recommend something like this ( see link ) torch. It is a 6-mode P-7 D-bin. The D-bin P-7's are very bright and should give you excellent distance throw. This model also has an extra mode which is a slow strobe. This could come in real handy for on the road use.

*Continued from my last post:*

I almost forgot to mention, the XM-L beam tint on my torch looked very white. I could detect no blueness at all. I sure hope there's no rain or snow after Christmas as I really want to get out to test the throw. Not to mention I can't wait to try the drop-in. :ihih: Keeping my fingers crossed.


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## adumb (Nov 29, 2009)

had a question on some 18650 batteries and charger... how do i know what my charging times would be... not exactly but just a rough idea. i have some 2600mah batteries and this charger

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3499

thanks,
adam


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

For that one, 600ma rated charging current, so a 2600ma-hour battery will take 4.3333 hours to charge to capacity **THEORETICALLY** for a fully discharged battery. Actual time will vary of course.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Continued from my last post:

The MTE XM-L emitter torch bought at Kaidomain is now guilt free and sitting in my hot little hands. I got a chance to test the throw tonight after leaving my family Christmas gathering. I haven't done a measured distance test yet but judging from what my eyes see and what my gut is telling me, this thing is throwing about 200ft and maybe more. Additionally, it is throwing that far with a very nice spread to the beam. Very impressive. It also has a nice medium mode that throws better than any of the P-7 torches I own do when on the same mode. With the large reflector head, most people aren't going to want to helmet mount it however in my case I think I might be able to get by. I can't wait to test this theory out but unfortunately a snow storm is heading my way for tomorrow. Damn, I really wanted to see how well the beam pattern works on the trails. There is a small chance the storm will miss my area but likely 3-6" according to the weatherman. Lastly, my torch does seem to have one small flaw. When I press the button to turn it on, it sometimes doesn't come on with the first click. I find that odd but at least it does come on and all the modes work fine. Likely the switch is sticky, maybe something I can fix perhaps but for now as long as it comes on and goes off when I need it too I'm good with it.

I also got a chance to test my new XM-L drop-in, also from Kaidomain. Once again the output is very bright. Brighter than my SST-50 drop-in. Unfortunately it does not have the beam pattern I was hoping for. I was hoping it would not be too wide. While the output is bright it is very much a flood pattern. Great for the bars, not so great if you were looking for something helmet mounted. I tried switching to the smooth reflector used on my SST-50 and while it did narrow the beam it created a greenish halo around the more narrow center spot. I found that very strange. No green tint at all when using the stock OP reflector. Tomorrow I'll be trying a XR-E refector and perhaps the reflector on my XP-E drop-in that has a bigger emitter opening than my old XP-G reflectors. I'll be crossing my fingers. If I can turn this into a thrower it will be a big plus as I have more bar mounted torches than I need right now.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I ordered the XML Ultrafire 501B because I wanted a P60 drop in... hopefully that's the right one?


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Has anyone tried this dropin? MCE 3.7V-4.2V 3 Modes Warm White Drop-in SKU: S009700


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

SuperJETT said:


> For that one, 600ma rated charging current, so a 2600ma-hour battery will take 4.3333 hours to charge to capacity **THEORETICALLY** for a fully discharged battery. Actual time will vary of course.


Easy, 2600ma / 600ma per hour ( listed on the link ) = 4hr 20mins area.

4 - 5 hours realistically if totally DEAD!!

I run 2 chargers wired into the same plug to save sockets, I can charge my 12 batterys just in time for a long ride the next night!! Not that I ever use all 12, but I like to have the option to.


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## Kenrow (Dec 24, 2008)

*Tourches Quality*

I have been following this thread but have to admit I know nothing about lighting. I am looking at two torches but wondering is there any differance in the quality in one brand over the other?

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.50316

http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=7793

Thanks in advance


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Kenrow said:


> I have been following this thread but have to admit I know nothing about lighting. I am looking at two torches but wondering is there any differance in the quality in one brand over the other?
> 
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.50316
> 
> ...


I own one of the SF-15's bought from D/X. DX had some problems with some of their MTE version of the SF-15 although mine works fine. Likely they changed the brand name so it looks as though a change was made. Maybe they did make some internal changes, who knows. For the most part ( IMO ) a change in lettering on the same torch host doesn't mean anything. When it comes to cheap torches you just have to, "Pick your own poison" as the saying goes. In this case what ever one you choose I don't think it will make a difference.


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## jeef (Oct 16, 2008)

I bought two of the 5-mode XML lights from KD and neither functions as advertised (or even functions, really). I see that KD requires you to login to request an RMA and, yet, my login information does not work. Isn't that nice? I guess I played the torch game and lost.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

jeef said:


> I bought two of the 5-mode XML lights from KD and neither functions as advertised (or even functions, really). I see that KD requires you to login to request an RMA and, yet, my login information does not work. Isn't that nice? I guess I played the torch game and lost.


I had a problem logging onto the KD RMA returns as well. For some reason they wouldn't accept my e-mail, really strange. In that case you go through the customer service web link. That should get you a response as it did for me.

Very unfortunate to have gotten a double whammy. That does sort of suck. So far I've gotten around 11 torches in about 3yrs. Though I've had minor problems with some, none of them were outright duds. Right now I'm in the process of returning a faulty drop-in. It might take a while but I'll get my money back. For some reason they want a photo of the drop-in...whatever. Since it was only $13 I might not even bother. For two $30 torches, that's another story.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Continued from my Review post #359

Tonight I got a chance to try out the throw of the Kaidomain, MTE, XM-L emitter torch while at work. I walked behind a long set of row-offices where it was completely dark and backed by trees. In back there is a long grassy corridor that runs between the trees and the buildings. I figure it is at least 175ft long but it might be longer. When I turned the torch on high all I could say was, *DAMN!* :eekster: I could easily see the complete length of the corridor, right down to the end. Goodness this F'er is bright! I am really liking what I am seeing. I just hope someone comes out with some really good smaller reflectors/optics that will match this output for all those future DIY builds that will undoubtedly start to come out. Heck, almost forgot, I tried the medium mode as well and damn! Even the medium mode has decent throw. Much more throw than any of my P-7's although with a slightly narrower beam pattern. Once again, the reflector on this torch is about 44mm wide. I think it might be time to try this out on a darkened football field where all the distances are measured. Luckily the snow that hit Sunday was only an inch or so and is all but gone.

I also tried the XM-L drop-in again as well. It too is very impressive although not quite as nice as the torch. Still the flood pattern still carried almost the entire length of the corridor, just not as dramatic an output as the torch. Then again I am biased toward optics that throw rather than flood. 

On a side note I need to get a new pair of leads for my Multimeter. The connector ends have cracked off on the positive lead ( :madman: :incazzato: ) which means I can't do a current check until I get new leads..maybe tomorrow if things go right.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Once again, continued from above..

Well I pretty much thought I was finish with the review but tonight I noticed some things that I feel need to be mentioned. Tonight I measured that building I was behind and I was spot on. It is indeed 175ft. ( damn I'm good.. ) Also, I noticed when I got home tonight that I have been using the XM-L torch with an older gray Ultrafire battery. When I saw that I just said, "Oh ****".... I should of been using my newer batteries. Anyway, I bought new test leads tonight for my multimeter and hooked up the torch with the old Ultrafire battery. My goodness, it was only drawing 1.6 to 1.7A. AND I WAS STILL IMPRESSED WITH THE OUTPUT! :shocked: Quickly I replaced the battery with one of my newer Red Ultrafire 2600's. The current draw jumped up to 2.1A!...Oh how sweet it is to make mistakes like this. :smilewinkgrin: Now the light output is even brighter.

I am a bit disappointed that the torch is not drawing more current. I was hoping for something like 2.4A which would of been more in line with what my SF-15 draws. 
( *update) After cleaning the threads and adjusting the metal ring on the end cap I managed to get another 100ma. Current draw is now 2.2A on high. Darn but the threads are dirty. I'm still not sure I have this as clean as it should be not to mention the threads are a bit rough. Certainly not the best build I've seen but at least the darn thing works. Anyone know a good cleaner for aluminum? Can't wait to get out to do another beam test.

Food for thought: I can only image how much light this would throw with a true 3A driver. On the flip side of the coin, the runs times should not be much different than my P-7 torches if it's only using 2.2A. I can live with that. ( for the time being ) 

*UPDATE #2 I JUST GOT 2.7A OUT OF IT. WHOA!.*..on a fresh charged red ultrafire 2600 cell. Cant wait till it gets dark again. If this thing doesn't blow up or fry, it just might be THE BOMB. This is definitely going on the helmet unless I use the DBL.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Once again, continued from above..
> 
> Well I pretty much thought I was finish with the review but tonight I noticed some things that I feel need to be mentioned. Tonight I measured that building I was behind and I was spot on. It is indeed 175ft. ( damn I'm good.. ) Also, I noticed when I got home tonight that I have been using the XM-L torch with an older gray Ultrafire battery. When I saw that I just said, "Oh ****".... I should of been using my newer batteries. Anyway, I bought new test leads tonight for my multimeter and hooked up the torch with the old Ultrafire battery. My goodness, it was only drawing 1.6 to 1.7A. AND I WAS STILL IMPRESSED WITH THE OUTPUT! :shocked: Quickly I replaced the battery with one of my newer Red Ultrafire 2600's. The current draw jumped up to 2.1A!...Oh how sweet it is to make mistakes like this. :smilewinkgrin: Now the light output is even brighter.
> 
> ...


Can you put dielectric grease on the threads? The stuff you use on car parts?


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

dielectric grease is non-conductive.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

Dielectric grease can damage silicone rubber. Hopefully none of the seals or anything in there would be made of that if you choose to use it.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

SuperJETT said:


> dielectric grease is non-conductive.


Oh, well use this junk then: http://www.trainz.com/p-185091-aristo-craft-29602-conductive-grease-2oz.aspx?CAWELAID=537523292


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## adumb (Nov 29, 2009)

i bought two mounts from deal exteme and thought i would just give a little update for other people trying to buy the mounts.. the fenix mount is a little bit more robust and would be better except for the fact that it is a little wide to find a nice flat mounting surface on the bars to put it. i have one bike with a flat bar setup and it mounted great on that cause there is obviously alot of room. on my other bike which has a 680 wide bar with the brake reservoir in the way there just isn't a good place to mount it. as well as the sweep and the rise of the bar making it difficult to find a flat spot

the other mount i bought was this one http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.36095 the mount wouldn't completly clamp my ultrafire 501b light. i put a little of a piece of cloth in and it took up the slack and clamped tight. this clamp is one quarter of the cost and can be mounted vitrually anywhere on the bars cause it is thin as well has being a large clamp diameter i can mount it right next to the stem which is pretty sweet. if i would have known i would have bought two or three of them. they make another mount just like it with different clamp diameters for diff bars and might make the light a little more snug.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

gticlay said:


> Oh, well use this junk then: http://www.trainz.com/p-185091-aristo-craft-29602-conductive-grease-2oz.aspx?CAWELAID=537523292


I think you misread what I was asking. I wanted a "cleaner". Anyway, turns out I already had one. I already had a bottle of automotive rim and wheel cleaner and it turned out to work great. Darn, you wouldn't believe the black stuff that came off those threads. Now that the threads are clean I will need a good conductive lube. I know WD-40 is conductive but it smells too bad. I've used ProLink before but I'm really not sure if it is conductive or not. I sent the company an e-mail to find out, we'll see. Looks like I need to give my other torches a good going over as well. Clean electrical contacts make for brighter outputs.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Continued from my review post #368

Tonight I got a chance to try out the throw of the MTE ( XM-L emitter ) torch on a football field. Unfortunately most of the lines on the field were worn off so once again I had to estimate distance. :bluefrown: I used some white styrofoam as markers and I took a whole slew of torches with me intending to do some comparisons BUT ...it was too DANG COLD! :lol: Because it was so cold I only compared the XML torch to the XPE torch. To say the least I am pleasantly pleased. The XPE ( drop-in ) torch ( bought from D/X ) has exceeded my expectations. It has a nice confined beam yet widens nicely the further you aim it. It provides a usable throw very close to 200ft. and will make an excellent helmet torch.

The XM-L torch ( non drop-in ) is in a class all it's own. It easily reaches the 200ft mark and from what I could tell it carried all the way to the other goal ( 300ft+ in all ) ( with the goal post being very visible ) This thing just blows my socks off. Not to mention the mid-mode on this torch is great as well. On mid mode it easily reached close to the 200ft mark making it the best throwing/brightest mid-mode on any torch I own. 

I do plan on doing other tests only I have to be lucky enough to get a weekend without rain and without WIND. Next time I'm going to bring my Lumen8R (quad XRE ) helmet lamp and compare it to that because it's the only thing I own that can throw near that far. 

I will say at this point I have no idea what the run time with the XML is going to be like. All I know is that it is drawing 2.6-2.7A on a fresh cell ( on high ). Maybe 40 min on high if I'm lucky. Mid mode though should be quite longer. ~ ~ Okay I just finish measuring the mid-mode with the multimeter and I'm getting 800ma. Wowsie :eekster: ...somehow I figured it would draw more on mid mode than that for as bright as it is but that suits me fine! I figure it should get about 3hr on mid-mode without too much problem since my SKU12060 draws the same on Mid mode and gets 3hrs easily! Oh but this is one sweet emitter and one sweet torch if I do say! :cornut:

(*Note: update , made typing error, mid mode was 800ma. sorry... )


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Finally got to use the SST-50 in anger, it's slightly brighter once the battery drops of a tad than a smaller lighter XP-G P60 with a nice reflector, not enough to warrant the price / weight sadly, I ended up with XP-G and SST-50 on my helmet which is fine, tad heavy if I wiggle my head around but hey!!


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## Merconium (Aug 25, 2010)

@Cat-man-do

I've been trying to follow what you've posted about the XM-L stuff you bought at Kaidomain. I can't seem to find the torch you said this about:


> Additionally, it is throwing that far with a very nice spread to the beam. Very impressive. It also has a nice medium mode that throws better than any of the P-7 torches I own do when on the same mode.


I saw that you concluded they must have dropped the MTE tag from the title--but do you have a sku or something so I could at least get close? I'm in a college town and would love something I could run on medium most nights.

Additionally, if you had any recommendations for bar mounts at Kaidomain (I'd like to keep the purchase in one place if possible, knowing DX is slow), I'd appreciate it.


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## paul64 (Apr 24, 2010)

Merconium said:


> Additionally, if you had any recommendations for bar mounts at Kaidomain (I'd like to keep the purchase in one place if possible, knowing DX is slow), I'd appreciate it.


Back in post #141 I mentioned the Exposure bar mounts, it doesn't get easier, take a look if you hadn't spotted it. Some nice alternatives in post #199 too.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Merconium said:


> @Cat-man-do
> 
> I've been trying to follow what you've posted about the XM-L stuff you bought at Kaidomain. I can't seem to find the torch you said this about:
> 
> ...


I'll give the link to the page with all the XML stuff ( link ). Mine is #6. They are now calling it the KD C8. The mount I use is from D/X. I've not looked at the KD mounts but I love the one from D/X. ( link )


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

My P60 XML started off looking great, really white slightly blue which is fine and with next to no time on at all, it's gone very yellow and dim already, like 2 mins on at 15seconds per go not enough to over heat it and I've got it padded out with Alu strips to for heat removing.


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## Merconium (Aug 25, 2010)

Thank you, Cat--that was just what I needed. I knew about the DX mount you linked, and I would order it, but I was hopeful to get everything in one batch order. I'll probably just try a few--they're dirt cheap.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Turveyd said:


> My P60 XML started off looking great, really white slightly blue which is fine and with next to no time on at all, it's gone very yellow and dim already, like 2 mins on at 15seconds per go not enough to over heat it and I've got it padded out with Alu strips to for heat removing.


Every time I get a new drop-in now I hold my breath. I don't know where KD is getting their drop-ins from but from where ever it is they are not using any thermal compound when they mount the emitter. *_Basically they are just letting the pressure from the reflector hold the emitter in place and THAT is not a good thing._ ( *in some cases )

So far the XML drop-in that I got is working great but I have yet to run it for a long period. It's not nearly as bright as the C8 XML torch but it's still the brightest ( flood pattern ) drop-in I own and competes very well against any of the P-7 torches I own.

So far I don't see anyone else selling the XML as a drop-in other than KD. You might want to check with Nailbender over on CPF. You'll pay more but you should get something better than the crap that KD sells. Than again, for $13 you could try your luck with KD again.


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## chrootz (Dec 12, 2010)

@Cat-man-do-

is that one you got KD C8 CREE XML torch? Can you take a picture and I want see the beamshot please!!!!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

chrootz said:


> @Cat-man-do-
> 
> is that one you got KD C8 CREE XML torch? Can you take a picture and I want see the beamshot please!!!!


Yes, that is the torch. Beamshots? I wish I could. Tomorrow it might snow. I work nights so I can only do beamshots on weekends. Plus the camera doesn't like the cold plus and I have to drive to get to the place where I can do the photos. ( I don't have a yard ) Lots of reasons not to do it. I might be able to sneak the camera and tripod out with me when I go to work but it might be a while before I can set it all up where I know no one will bother me. Maybe by next week if things go right.

In the mean time, a photo of the lunar eclipse we had a couple weeks ago. I really had no idea how it would turn out. For cheap camera, not bad..


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## chrootz (Dec 12, 2010)

Alright, I understand. I will order 2 of the KD C8 Cree XML torch tomorrow. 

Thanks


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## thomasshawn (Nov 17, 2010)

any idea what the current replacement for the sf15 at DX is? I RMAd mine and need to swap it for one thwt works. this will be bar mount as I already have a magicshine up top


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## moggy82 (Jan 30, 2009)

thomasshawn said:


> any idea what the current replacement for the sf15 at DX is? I RMAd mine and need to swap it for one thwt works. this will be bar mount as I already have a magicshine up top


Maybe this one

www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.50316

Same light just different brand i believe.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

forget DX and Kai, you can order direct from Solarforce: www.solarforce-sales.com

their L series are small, powerful, and have great reviews on CandlePowerForums.


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## chrootz (Dec 12, 2010)

rocks! thanks and I ordered 2 L2P torch flashlight with P60 drop in XM-L led. :thumbsup:



mack_turtle said:


> forget DX and Kai, you can order direct from Solarforce: www.solarforce-sales.com
> 
> their L series are small, powerful, and have great reviews on CandlePowerForums.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

chrootz said:


> rocks! thanks and I ordered 2 L2P torch flashlight with P60 drop in XM-L led. :thumbsup:


The solarforce stuff looks nice. Their XM-L drop-in is only 1-mode but the reflector is claiming to have a more spot like beam pattern. Let us know how you like the beam pattern. If it's a true spot I might buy one just to get the reflector.

On a side note: It looks like D/X has replaced my beloved SKU 12060 with this new offering.
( see link ) It is no long an MTE but is now an Ultrafire. Other than that it looks like the old SKU 12060 ( 5-mode P-7 ).


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

My XML P60 from Kaidomain is nice but always gets this fog in the middle of the lens that gives the beam a hollow area in the spot. Grrrrrr. It's hella bright and small though.


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## thomasshawn (Nov 17, 2010)

thanks guys. sku 50314 vs the 50316.

the 316 seems to be exact copy. same useless extra modes (SOS/Flasher) and yet the 314 actually is called "model sf-15". i assume besides the modes the are identical. 

I would like to try solarforce but currently I am in a DX RMA circle. I made the mistake of asking a question. and now we are stuck in a loop of incoherence. they asked:"replacement or credit." I asked "you no longer carry the same sku. what model would you replace it with?" now the CS rep is stuck on the fact that I haven't given him an answer despite the fact the light is en route to them now and should be there today. I have provided all this documentation and they still just keep asking credit or replacement. it takes 3 days for him to respond each time too. so I am currently waiting for the the final response after mine where I essentially just said CREDIT and nothing else.

we'll see


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## chrootz (Dec 12, 2010)

They do have 3 mode XM-L torch flashlight :thumbsup:

here solarfire email -=see below=-

--quote
Dear friend,

Thanks for yoru email and happy to have a chance to assist you

WE have XM-L 3 mode high low strobe (with memory IC)

USD 37.99 only ^^

Registred air mail fee is USD 2

Total price is USD 39.99

If youw ant to purchase, please email us we will send you a custom apyapl
invoice

Or if you have something to add, please eamil us we can send you invoice
together

Thanks for your order in advance and nie to do business with you

Thank you

Regards

Sales Team

Solarforce-sales.com

--end quote



Cat-man-do said:


> The solarforce stuff looks nice. Their XM-L drop-in is only 1-mode but the reflector is claiming to have a more spot like beam pattern. Let us know how you like the beam pattern. If it's a true spot I might buy one just to get the reflector.


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## Rock Climber (Jul 25, 2007)

Has anybody used either one of these handlebar mounts with the sf-15? They are pretty similar to the DX ones, but hoping shipping might be a little faster

http://www.meritline.com/bicycle-led-flashlight-clip---p-37552.aspx

http://www.meritline.com/bicycle-flashlight-holder---p-36981.aspx


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

Rock Climber said:


> Has anybody used either one of these handlebar mounts with the sf-15? They are pretty similar to the DX ones, but hoping shipping might be a little faster
> 
> http://www.meritline.com/bicycle-led-flashlight-clip---p-37552.aspx
> 
> http://www.meritline.com/bicycle-flashlight-holder---p-36981.aspx


I purchased both and don't like either. The first required some good shimming for most of my lights, the second looked great, but was just junk (and definitely no good on 31.8 bars). Either may be fine for commuting, but not for single track. 
I am sticking to the ublock/twofish velcro mounts and/or the fenix mounts.

My question. Can anyone recommend a decent single mode 200+ lumen flood. I have a couple 5 mode 900 lumens P7's, but to avoid the issue of "spontaneous mode switching" I would like to try a single-mode flood on my bars that will last 2+ hours. Also, I am looking to avoid the "flood to throw adjustable lights, but if most think that is my best option, I may give it a go.
Thanks


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## Rock Climber (Jul 25, 2007)

IMHO said:


> I purchased both and don't like either. The first required some good shimming for most of my lights, the second looked great, but was just junk (and definitely no good on 31.8 bars). Either may be fine for commuting, but not for single track.
> I am sticking to the ublock/twofish velcro mounts and/or the fenix mounts.


Thanks for the feedback!

I tried the two fish lock block with my P7 and it wasn't very sturdy, the light beam would bounce all over the place. It was great with my TR-801 though. Is there a trick to getting the two fish to work better with the P7?


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

Rock Climber said:


> Thanks for the feedback!
> 
> I tried the two fish lock block with my P7 and it wasn't very sturdy, the light beam would bounce all over the place. It was great with my TR-801 though. Is there a trick to getting the two fish to work better with the P7?


Yeah, it will bounce around with the P7. Using another velcro strap, you may be able to loop it around the bar and light nice and tight for a more secure fit. If you did choose one of the above mounts, they are less likely to bounce around, but I would still loop velcro (or loop/tie a strip of old tubing) around them in case they decide to break mid-ride.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

IMHO said:


> I
> My question. Can anyone recommend a decent single mode 200+ lumen flood. I have a couple 5 mode 900 lumens P7's, but to avoid the issue of "spontaneous mode switching" I would like to try a single-mode flood on my bars that will last 2+ hours. Also, I am looking to avoid the "flood to throw adjustable lights, but if most think that is my best option, I may give it a go.
> Thanks


Are you asking about drop-ins or standard pill mounted torches? I could see if you had the issue with a drop-in but I've never had a spontaneous mode switch with a standard ( emitter pill mounted ) 5-mode torch. On the 5-mode XM-L drop-in I have, I can shake it and beat it and it doesn't change modes ( even though I can hear the battery shake inside the tube ). I'm still using the standard Ultrafire WF-501B host. The XM-L drop-in has a nice output with a nice medium size flood. The mid-level is just sweet and should run about 3hrs on one cell if my calculations are correct. I haven't had time to test it on the bars yet. That will have wait till spring. We got 8" of snow last night.

One quick tip: If you are using a drop-in with a host and get spontaneous mode switches you might consider getting a new host. Sometimes that will fix the problem as it did for me.


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

I agree, I've never had a spontaneous mode change on any of my 3 5-modes. You may have a battery contact issue if that's the case.


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

I have two MTE SSC P7's that will switch modes on bumpy trails to the point where it happens on nearly every bump. This was not an issue as I mostly use just a torch on the helmet, but I am planning on a 24hr event where it might be nice to have a bar light. I experimented with some torches, and the 5 mode TR-801 would not change modes, nor did the XPG 5 mode...but those are spot/throw torches. I have tried tightened my clicky but that is not helping. Would using a spacer with my battery help? Or wrapping a battery (with paper) to tighten the fit? Or if a fix will not work maybe I will try your setup Catmando.
Thanks


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## rideandshoot (Dec 18, 2006)

IMHO said:


> I purchased both and don't like either. The first required some good shimming for most of my lights, the second looked great, but was just junk (and definitely no good on 31.8 bars). Either may be fine for commuting, but not for single track.
> I am sticking to the ublock/twofish velcro mounts and/or the fenix mounts.
> 
> My question. Can anyone recommend a decent single mode 200+ lumen flood. I have a couple 5 mode 900 lumens P7's, but to avoid the issue of "spontaneous mode switching" I would like to try a single-mode flood on my bars that will last 2+ hours. Also, I am looking to avoid the "flood to throw adjustable lights, but if most think that is my best option, I may give it a go.
> Thanks


This is my favorite. I wouldn't call it a flood but it's not exactly a spot either.

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/unique...30-lumen-led-flashlight-1-18650-2-16340-32721

I use one on my helmet to augment a LEDgend quad XPG flood on my bars but I think two of these on the bars and one on your helmet would work really well and you would have no wires to worry about.


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

rideandshoot said:


> This is my favorite. I wouldn't call it a flood but it's not exactly a spot either.
> 
> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/unique...30-lumen-led-flashlight-1-18650-2-16340-32721
> 
> I use one on my helmet to augment a LEDgend quad XPG flood on my bars but I think two of these on the bars and one on your helmet would work really well and you would have no wires to worry about.


Yeah, that is what I have been using on my helmet this season. By itself it has been enough, but it is a bit of a thrower. Looking for something closer to the P7 beam if possible. Still, I have two of those so I may just test it one out and see how I like it.
Thanks.


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## deano machineo (Dec 20, 2009)

I have bought my first torches from DealExtreme.
1 unit: SpiderFire SSC P7 SSC P7-C 2-Mode 900-Lumen LED Flashlight
1 unit: Aurora AK-P7-5 HA-III SSC P7-C 5-Mode 900-Lumen LED Flashlight

The SpiderFire seems to be brighter with a tighter spot, better throw and I like the two modes only. Seems to be the perfect flashlight. *Is there something better?*

The Aurora is not as bright as the Spiderfire a little more floody and the 5 modes are a bit over kill for my usage. I do like the half clicks to change modes. I wish the SpiderFire did this.

Both seem to have decent build, feel and weight. I'd prefer a more aggressive assault ring on the SpiderFire so if someone can suggest a better light with this please suggest.

These are of course not actual 900-lumen units. I am guessing more in the 400-500 range. Is there a actual 900 lumen unit available from someone in these form factors? Or, are we talking of the Lupine hand-held caliber to get something like that? A real 900-lumen unit would be nuts. I gotta have it.

I'm now addicted to torches. Didn't think I'd be that geek offering up to show my new flashlight to everyone. But once people see how frickin bright they are they want one.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

deano machineo said:


> I have bought my first torches from DealExtreme.
> 1 unit: SpiderFire SSC P7 SSC P7-C 2-Mode 900-Lumen LED Flashlight
> 1 unit: Aurora AK-P7-5 HA-III SSC P7-C 5-Mode 900-Lumen LED Flashlight
> 
> ...


Is this the Spiderfire torch you have? > link. If so I think I know why it is brighter. It is using the C8 torch host that has a more refined reflector so more throw. The Aurora should be smaller with more flood as you said but at least it should have a mid-mode that should give you excellent run time and make a good bar lamp.

Sounds like the Spiderfire should make a good helmet torch if you can mount it on your helmet and don't mind the weight.

Another torch you can buy ( similar to your Spiderfire ) that should be brighter is the Kaidomain C8 torch using an XM-L emitter ( 5-mode ). > link. Right now it is my brightest, farthest throwing torch ( compared to my other P-7 torches ).


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> Another torch you can buy ( similar to your Spiderfire ) that should be brighter is the Kaidomain C8 torch using an XM-L emitter ( 5-mode ). > link. Right now it is my brightest, farthest throwing torch ( compared to my other P-7 torches ).


Dang, I'd be all over that for a helmet light if it was really 4.5 grams. :eekster:


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## betweenrides (Oct 19, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> ... Another torch you can buy ( similar to your Spiderfire ) that should be brighter is the Kaidomain C8 torch using an XM-L emitter ( 5-mode ). > link. Right now it is my brightest, farthest throwing torch ( compared to my other P-7 torches ).


Cat-man-do, I picked up a C8 from Manafont for $16.,99 that uses the Cree R5 LED. It's a great thrower and a perfect complement to the Baja Designs P7, which was more floody. Haven't had a chance to test runout time. Sure are a lot of clones of this body out there.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

My XPG burnt out on a walk a while back.


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## deano machineo (Dec 20, 2009)

Cat-man-do, yes that is the SpiderFire torch I have.
I'll give that Kaidomain unit a try. I wasn't so crazy about 5 modes like on the Aurora AK-P7, but maybe I was not understanding the memory function or it doesn't have memory or malfunctioning. I don't see any mention of memory on the specs for the Aurora. I did'nt like having to click through all the modes to find the two I use the most; HI & LO. 
If I read review correctly on Kaidomain C8 torch using an XM-L emitter it DOES have a memory?
Is there a true 900 lumen torch in these form factors and price point?
What you spose that Kaidomain C8 torch is putting out?


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## deano machineo (Dec 20, 2009)

A little OT but I stumbled on this place: http://goinggear.com/

This baby might be a little overkill, but I'd sure like to own it. A wee bit pricey, but cool anyway; They're calling it 2200 lumens. So what is it really? Maybe 1000?

http://goinggear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_23&products_id=497


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## mrradlos (Sep 3, 2010)

*http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=11097*



> Is this the Spiderfire torch you have? > link. If so I think I know why it is brighter. It is using the C8 torch host that has a more refined reflector so more throw. The Aurora should be smaller with more flood as you said but at least it should have a mid-mode that should give you excellent run time and make a good bar lamp.
> 
> Sounds like the Spiderfire should make a good helmet torch if you can mount it on your helmet and don't mind the weight.
> 
> Another torch you can buy ( similar to your Spiderfire ) that should be brighter is the Kaidomain C8 torch using an XM-L emitter ( 5-mode ). > link. Right now it is my brightest, farthest throwing torch ( compared to my other P-7 torches ).


I learnd a lot from this forum, I really have to thank you for your information. As I own some cheap torches here my thoghts:








from left to right KD C8 XM-L spiderfire P7 UltraFire WF-501B MC-E Aurora DIY Body with KD XM-L drop-in selfmade cap

The follwing beamshots are much to dark, but this makes it easier to see the differnece: C8 XM-L, spiderfire P7, XM-L drop-in, cap (no foto of the MC-E). I would never put a torch as big and heavy as the spiderfire on my helmet. The little Aurora with the XM-L drop-in with the 18650 battery is 109 g which is light enough if you put it on the top (middle) of the helmet.
What I couldn't manage yet is to get more than 2000mA current draw out of any of this cheap lights!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

deano machineo said:


> Cat-man-do, yes that is the SpiderFire torch I have.
> I'll give that Kaidomain unit a try. I wasn't so crazy about 5 modes like on the Aurora AK-P7, but maybe I was not understanding the memory function or it doesn't have memory or malfunctioning. I don't see any mention of memory on the specs for the Aurora. I did'nt like having to click through all the modes to find the two I use the most; HI & LO.
> If I read review correctly on Kaidomain C8 torch using an XM-L emitter it DOES have a memory?
> Is there a true 900 lumen torch in these form factors and price point?
> What you spose that Kaidomain C8 torch is putting out?


Yes, it has memory. That means it stays in the last mode used when you turn it on/off. You still have to cycle through the modes when you want to change modes but that is common to all multi-mode torches. Now if you have money to burn you might find another Brand name model with multi-modes that doesn't have the stupid flash modes which are a real annoyance. As far as output goes you're not going to get 900 lumens OTF ( out the front ) out of most torches. Now with that said, compared to other lights I have rated at 600lm the KD C8 blows everything else I own away as far as throw goes. I'm thinking it might be in the 750-800 lumen range OTF. As far as throw goes it rivals my quad XRE R2 ( est. 900lm ) although I have yet to do a direct comparison.

About the Olight...It likely is near that 2000 lumen mark but it is a monster...weight wise that is. It uses 6 x 18650 cells. Likely weighs about two pounds. I'd love to have one if I had $400 burning a hole in my pocket.  That said, too heavy for bike use though. ( *update, shipping weight is 10lbs )

*Random walk* said:


> Dang, I'd be all over that for a helmet light if it was really 4.5 grams.


:lol: ...looks like the site moderator needs some new glasses. No, it's not 4.5 grams. Looks like they made the same mistake on a lot of other similar torches as well. D/X lists the same C8 torch host around 171gms, likely a closer figure.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I'd of thought my Smooth reflectors would of been here already, maybe tomorrow if not soon, then we'll see if XML + Smooth will make for a great helmet mount.

1 smooth 1 normal is the plan keep the spread of light mostly and give it a bit of a punch out to longer summer riding speeds.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

deano machineo said:


> A little OT but I stumbled on this place: http://goinggear.com/
> 
> This baby might be a little overkill, but I'd sure like to own it. A wee bit pricey, but cool anyway; They're calling it 2200 lumens. So what is it really? Maybe 1000?
> 
> http://goinggear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_23&products_id=497


 Hi Deano machineo,that torch is 1500 lumens OTF. It's using a hard driven SST-90 led and is 16" long. I'm in the process of purchasing a true 1100 lumen OTF torch that is just four inches long and comes with a bar mount option. Here it is,,,, the Lupine Wilma TL.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Those DX Smooth reflectors don't work at all really with the XML's, makes the spot bigger and yellower still no artifacts which is nice though.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Anyone see this ??? .........

http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=11226

Looks impressive for the money, yes it's just a cut down torch but hey, with 4 x 18650's supplying it and a bigger reflector it should have some serious output.

Got to find a Magic Shine headmount, or make my own to connect to it.


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

Wow, those guys are geniuses!!!!
They figured out how to get 1200 lumens out of an XML by pulling 2.4a out of the driver!!!!!
/sarcasm

Seriously though, it looks like a pretty good deal. Even if the battery ends up being crap, it's pretty easy to replace that.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

savagemann said:


> Wow, those guys are geniuses!!!!
> They figured out how to get 1200 lumens out of an XML by pulling 2.4a out of the driver!!!!!
> /sarcasm
> 
> Seriously though, it looks like a pretty good deal. Even if the battery ends up being crap, it's pretty easy to replace that.


2400ma, there 3000ma max aren't they so think 850lumens, the XML P60 is a great piece of kit, bigger reflector, more power and lighter on my helmet shame about an annoying cable again but hey.

Week after next all being well!!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Turveyd said:


> Anyone see this ??? .........
> 
> http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=11226
> 
> ...


Yeah, I saw it the other day but I'm still deciding whither or not to buy one. I like the exterior look of it vs. the MS XM-L version *BUT*....I sure would like to know what beam pattern it puts out.  Too bad they couldn't of used a driver with a little more umph. Still, if the reflector is similar to the one used in the KD C8 it will rock as a helmet lamp. The sad part is that the "dimensions" given on the KD web site are totally off the nut! :incazzato: They really do need to get someone who can read a tape measure ( for Pete's sake ). :nonod:

If I get one my plan is to adapt it to a Marwi style helmet mount and make my own 2-cell 18650 holder. That way, ( if all works out as planned ) I can make it a total helmet contained system without wires off the helmet.

I would have already placed the order but I have still yet to test my C8! ( as well as two other torches bought over the winter). Ahhh! decisions, decisions!


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Well should have it in sub 2 weeks all being well so hold off and I'll see what it's like.

I'll still run a XML P60 on my helmet to just to be sure and for more power 

Move the other XML to my bars maybe, hmmmmmm, maybe both of them if it's bright enough on it's own, give my kneck a break, not literally.

Don't like cables so dropping to 2 cells and mounting them on the rear of the helmet, 200grams+ with 4 would be to much I'd bet, sounds like a good plan.

Switch it off on climbs on my 6hour+ night rides and should last just fine.


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## moggy82 (Jan 30, 2009)

I got a XML with a Smooth reflector, not impressed with the P60 drop in as the output is initially wow but goes down to 70% brightness in just a few minutes, the module gets way too hot. So went for a MTE, as per the original P7 torch, sku 12060 if you know that one! 

nice smooth deep reflector, outs out a nice spot, works great with the maigicshine. on helmet and mickey on bars!


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Loving my XML P60's, running 2 on my head currently, not noticing a drop off and like the big spot it was great in mud but will likely suffer on the range front with dry trails and faster speeds, why I've ordered that XML bike light more punch hopefully and less weight on my helmet.

It's on route aswell and the MS helmet mount


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## xhailofgunfirex (Jun 25, 2008)

What would be a good 18650 battery and charger to get?


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

I got my 2 XML P60 drop ins from DX yesterday (smooth 1-mode and textured 5-mode). I honestly can't tell a difference between the beam patterns in a side-by-side comparison (both on high). It is a rather limited test, shining onto a wall inside my house @ 5 meters.

However, when I swap out one of the reflectors for this smooth one that I bought last year for my MC-E 501b, there is a NOTICEABLE difference in the beam -- much tighter.

I'll try to take some outside pics and post them up in the next couple of nights, before I go on business travel for a month


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

random walk said:


> I got my 2 XML P60 drop ins from DX yesterday (smooth 1-mode and textured 5-mode). I honestly can't tell a difference between the beam patterns in a side-by-side comparison (both on high). It is a rather limited test, shining onto a wall inside my house @ 5 meters.
> 
> *However, when I swap out one of the reflectors for this smooth one that I bought last year for my MC-E 501b, there is a NOTICEABLE difference in the beam -- much tighter.*
> 
> I'll try to take some outside pics and post them up in the next couple of nights, before I go on business travel for a month


Thanks Random. Been a while since I ordered anything from D/X but at least one of those will go on my list for whenever I place my next order.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Okay, not ordered from D/X but since this is everyones all time favorite torch thread....

I've been doing some major seaches for new torches. Looks like my efforts have paid off. I've found four set-ups I thought worth mentioning and have just pulled the trigger on three.

*The first:* Yezl T8 XM-L *Zoom flood to spot-throw* 3-mode ( one flash mode ) see link. Also offered in a five mode. This looks roughly the size of the Ultrafire 401-B but with a slightly larger head. My hope is that it will make a great helmet torch which I can adjust to the perfect spot. Almost forgot to mention I think the XM-L version comes with a battery and charger.

*The second*: Not to be out-done by the first I also ordered an XP-G version. Not sure which will have more throw so I ordered both.  see link. The only bad thing about AliExpress is that you have to pay shipping charges. Mine are coming UPS, should have by next week...the shipping cost about $30.

*The third*: Found this on CNqualitygoods. The Yezi Z1X XM-L 3-mode *( no flashing modes!!)* Nice, small and compact. Hopefully will have a nice medium wide beam for the bars. Free shipping like D/X..should take maybe three weeks to get.

Now the one I liked but didn't buy> Cree XML T-6 5-mode using a *26650 battery set-up* ( two or one cell ). I've been looking a long time for an XM-L version using a 26650 cell. Using a 3500-4000mah cell you would get excellent run times. There is also an SST-50 version that might be even brighter ?? Anyway, I'll hold off till I see what the new stuff I ordered does. ....Ah, Christmas in May, you have to love it.


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> Okay, not ordered from D/X but since this is everyones all time favorite torch thread....
> 
> I've been doing some major seaches for new torches. Looks like my efforts have paid off. I've found four set-ups I thought worth mentioning and have just pulled the trigger on three.
> 
> ...


Cat, looks like you found some goodies!!!!
I have been looking for XML 26650 lights for a bit now.
I have a few extra 26650 4000mAh cells here left over from bike light projects.
I went ahead and ordered the last light you linked to, and will post my findings after it arrives.
Thanx for the heads up!


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## LORENZ (May 2, 2008)

Shipping cost stink coming from that place cat man.

What is the expected run times when comparing the two battery types?


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## chrootz (Dec 12, 2010)

I decide check 3rd link XML 26650 battery flashlight and I found the 4seven S12 similars. It has 2 modes low and hight. Holy cow, This one kick in butt!

imagine if you buys 2 of the S12 flashlight with 26650 battery and it's gonna very bright.

Here the link


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

chrootz said:


> I decide check 3rd link XML 26650 battery flashlight and I found the 4seven S12 similars. It has 2 modes low and hight. Holy cow, This one kick in butt!
> 
> imagine if you buys 2 of the S12 flashlight with 26650 battery and it's gonna very bright.
> 
> Here the link


*chrootz*, yes, the 4Sevens Maelstrom S-12 was on my list as a potential purchase. It is a super compact build but using an SST-90 as the emitter. However the fact that it is only a two mode ( low being 120lm ) and that it is slightly heavier than my KD C8 XM-L torch ( despite the small size had me crossing it off my list. I will say though the output on high with the S-12 looks sweet. Looks like it would make a nice helmet light ( although it might be a bit heavy ). Hopefully the Yezl T8 I ordered will be much lighter and be easier on the head than my current K/D XM-L torch. I am crossing my fingers!

*LORENZ* said;



> *Shipping cost stink coming from that place cat man.*
> What is the expected run times when comparing the two battery types?


You can say that again! :lol: 
In answer to your question, depends....what emitter, what drive current, what battery capacity..etc. Because of that ( and because I don't own one yet ) I can't say for sure BUT....The best 18650 cells are in the 2600 to 2900mAh range. The 26650 cells are available up to 4000mAh. Really not a lot of data yet on actual run times. The 4Sevens S-12 list a 1.5hr run time on high ( 800+lms). That is with "their" battery. Better batteries might be available

*savagemann*....the only thing preventing me from buying the torch you just bought was that I felt the light-head was a little too big. When I searched the web I found that this same torch host is also used to power some of the SST-90 set-ups, hence the need for more heat sinking. Personally I want one of these ( 26650 size ) torches for the bars. Ideally what I want is something akin to a SF-15 only with battery tube that fits a 26650. 
If used with a XM-L I see no reason to need a super large head if you just want a modest amount of throw. Couple that with a decent three mode driver and one of those 4000mAh 26650's and you should get some great runtimes with a really compact footprint on the bars. At least that is my hope if I find one I like. The S-12 looks nice, only needs an XML, a couple more intermediate modes and a choice of reflector. What they have now is very close...close but not enough for me to dole out close to $200 for the entire set-up ( torch, 2 batteries and a charger ....batteries and charger, not included with torch ).


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Shame about the shipping costs, I've got a Q3 or something Zoom to Flash exactly the same, used it tonight for a walk along the river great torch would love a XML version pumping out 3x's the light, hmmm.

You've got TOO many torches Cat man, I say with 3 on my desk ( 2 Zoom to floods, 3 mode and 1 mode, and a SST-50 ) LOL and various others around and in the car LOL


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Turveyd said:


> ....You've got TOO many torches Cat man, I say with 3 on my desk ( 2 Zoom to floods, 3 mode and 1 mode, and a SST-50 ) LOL and various others around and in the car LOL


Yes, yes...and it's only going to get worse.  At some point I'll likely give some away or sell a couple to some people at work. The shipping charges from AliExpress are a bit much. I doubt I'll buy from there again...UNLESS they happen to carry something that no one else is offering ( like they did this time ). As far as I know no one else is offering a Zoom to throw XM-L torch. I figure if I get it next week via UPS perhaps it will be worth it. What bothered me was that there was no offer of using just Hong Kong post which would of saved lots of money. Anyway, water under the bridge. If I get the stuff by Tuesday and the torches turn out to work great I'll have got my money's worth.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

The issue with those optics is the more of a spot you run the more light they waste, although they still focus what they've got into a tighter spot the spot isn't much brighter than the floods brightness, for this reason mine ended up on the bars not my head like I planned.

Still waiting on that XML cut down torch bike light with 4 cells and charger, must be 4 weeks, might even be 5, got the MS helmet mount here and ready to rock to


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Turveyd said:


> The issue with those optics is the more of a spot you run the more light they waste, although they still focus what they've got into a tighter spot the spot isn't much brighter than the floods brightness, for this reason mine ended up on the bars not my head like I planned....


I've considered that possibility. A lot is going to depend on the design and how well it can harness the available output. At least the website did include some beam shots that showed different focus levels outside at a distance. With the XML Flood to spot the best setting looks like a mid-focus. Judging from the other settings it does appear to be brighter than just a flood. I don't kid myself though in thinking this will be brighter than my K/D C8. The C8 just rocks with throw but it is a tad heavy, hence the reason I'm going to try these flood to spot setups. In the long run if it turns out one of them is brighter than my current XP-E/Ultra-fire or SST-50 drop-in, than I've come out with a winner. Trying to find a torch that is super bright, has a nice usable beam pattern for helmet use and can still be light enough to use on the helmet is not an easy task. As it stands right now the drop-ins are the best on the helmet due to their light-weight. Hopefully my efforts to improve upon that will not be for naught. Sometimes you have to take a chance and roll the dice.

Change of subject for the moment:
I saw this set-up the other day. For those interested in the 26650 cell torches I thought this looked interesting but OH the cost!  I have no idea why they want so much for this. Looks like this is an MCE two mode (?) Looks like a Flood to Spot as well. I sent an email off asking why they are asking so much. Link to torch. At least this one is offered for lower shipping cost. Other related XM-L stuff is offered with free shipping, must depend on the vendor. Just look for the "free shipping" written in green. see link. Scroll down on link to view.

*update...found another link for this torch, unfortunately price is still high but says it is a three mode. I'm only seeing this sold by Alibaba or Aliexpress ( the wholesale vendor for Alibaba ) special note: the charger and 4000mAh 26650 cells are available from Aliexpress ( FWIW )


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Just had this :-

http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=11226

Arrive just finally, about 4 maybe 5 weeks but hey, okay it's day time here and the battery hasn't been charged yet but.....

It's light compared to a P60 torch on my head.
39mm Reflector.
Brighter than P60 XML and much bluer which I generally like.
It's a MID not a spot same as the P60 which is good not going to lose peripheral.

Batterys are charging, no doubt I'll try it out tonight 

Which sucks as just about to put in a day ride drattss!!!!


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Well, I'm impressed, fantastic amount of light could do with a better reflector to tighten the spot and improve the range, but it's still more than useable.

I used a XML P60 on Medium on the bars and this on my head without an issue, guess I don't need my 13 x 18650's, yes I'll switch this off while climbing to extend the run time and keep a P60 in the rucksack incase i still run out on longer rides.

Gets really hot in the house but stone cold while riding or just moving around so not a issue I expect.

nice cut outs in the side to, we'll see if thats an issue first wet ride.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Turveyd said:


> Well, I'm impressed, fantastic amount of light could do with a better reflector to tighten the spot and improve the range, but it's still more than useable.
> 
> I used a XML P60 on Medium on the bars and this on my head without an issue, guess I don't need my 13 x 18650's, yes I'll switch this off while climbing to extend the run time and keep a P60 in the rucksack incase i still run out on longer rides.
> 
> ...


I'm sad to hear that it doesn't have that tight of a spot. After reading what you wrote I pulled up the link and took a look at the photo. Yeah, I can see that the reflector is not as deep as the C-8 torch I have. I also looked at the MS XM-L version over on D/X. It too does not look to have a very deep reflector...disappointing. Should make for great all-round use though and should still be brighter than the P-7 versions. Can you tell me what the diameter of the reflector is?


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Already did, 39mm ish I'll add.

I don't like a tight spot on technical slower stuff, it's perfect for that as you see everything, but as the speed goes up the range issue could be a issue.

Much brighter than the original MS's.

Might end up running a P60 XP-G on my head with smooth reflector to give me a spot out to range aswell, we'll see.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Turveyd said:


> *Already did, 39mm ish I'll add.*
> 
> I don't like a tight spot on technical slower stuff, it's perfect for that as you see everything, but as the speed goes up the range issue could be a issue.


Hmmm...that's about the same diameter as my C8 reflector. The C8 reflector is also about 32mm long. Do you think that would fit the K/D light? That's a real important question cause if it will you should be able to switch reflectors ( if you wanted to that is ).

Another change of subject directed toward *savagemann*:

I got some feed-back the other day from the e-mail I sent 4Sevens. Basically I sent them an e-mail requesting that they produce a product geared toward cyclist. The response was the following...quote:



> Thank you for your input. The S12 lights are indeed popular and sold out within the first week of their release. We are awaiting more batteries and chargers to send out the second batch of lights. However, you requested a similar light using the XM-L. We will have such a light, called the Maelstrom X10 sometime in the near future. It will operate just like the S12 as far as I am aware. We do not yet have any further details, but I encourage you to keep an eye out for it. Thank you very much for your interest.


...Anyway, I requested an XM-L three to four mode version ( with the mid-mode drawing around 1500ma. Would be nice to see something like that.


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

Nice.....I'll keep an eye out for the X10.
I just got a shipping confirmation for the 26650 XML light and should have it here within about 10 days.
I will update then.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Just an update with my recent orders:

Still waiting on the flood to throw torches.  Likely somewhere in customs, should be any day now....I hope.

Last night I got the other torch in from the other supplier. This is the one > see link. 
My initial impressions...mixed. It pretty much works as expected. Seems to have a nice intermediate beam, a medium hot spot with lots of flood spill. Very good for the bars. The beam pattern does show some ringing but it is minor and will likely not be an issue on the trails.

The actual output is what makes this torch interesting. Looks like they're using the "cool white" version of the XM-L. There is very much a "blue-ish" tint to the beam which is very much not to my liking. I tend to like the more neutral white tints that my other XM-L torches offer. This is the first time I've seen a cool white XM-L. On the up side this torch is very bright. Matter of fact, blueish be damned, on high this torch is brighter than almost any bike light I own expect maybe my 3-up XP-G R5 ( and maybe even that one as well ). I figure on high maybe 900 lumen, I kid you not. All three modes work well, no flash modes. This is the smallest 18650 cell torch I own. Hard to believe all that light is coming out a reflector ( smooth ) that is only 20mm wide. Tonight I'll put it to the test outside.

On a side note, if the flood to throw torches I ordered have the same emitter ( same brand torch ) chances are the throw is going to be incredible. So far I'm not thrilled with the blue tint but what the heck, the frecker is super bright so I think I can make do. :thumbsup:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Continued review of the *Yezl Z1X* from my post above:

Got a chance to try it out last night while at work. Well... ...not as impressed as I was when I was testing it inside my home. It pretty much does as much as the XM-L drop-in that I use in one of my other torches. It does offer more spill than the drop-in but the throw is about the same. My opinion though might be a bit skewed because last night there was a fine mist in the air which limits throw. Tonight it's raining again  so no more tests for now.

When I got home last night it had cleared a bit so I held the torch head high to mimic helmet use and I was surprised. This torch might work well helmet mounted but that remains to be seen. Still, I tend to like pure throwers for the lid.

I am seeing some minor initial problems however. A time or two I tried to turn it on and nothing happened. I broke it down and cleaned the threads but it did the same thing tonight. I think the problem is that there is no spring on the end cap. The only spring is in the front. When I take the end cap off and put back on initially the light doesn't come on when I press the switch button. After I give it a nice whack it then seems to work fine. Go figure. If I keep whacking it there is no mode jumping so that is good. I tried another battery and it seems to be fine so maybe it's just the battery ( which had some cover issues ).

Other things to note: Looks like they included some glow-in-the-dark O-rings. It has one in the front as well as at all other threaded points..And a nice GITD button on the end as well. It will tail stand very easily if you take off the included lanyard. A real important issue to note is that torch will heat up right fast when use on high. I guess than means that thermal transfer is fast but because the torch is so small you want to make sure that you are moving if using the high mode for more than a couple minutes. Lastly, even though it appears to have a textured outter surface it is actual quite slippery. Since it is also quite narrow I might have to use a little more rubber to keep it tight in my bar torch holder.


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

random walk said:


> I got my 2 XML P60 drop ins from DX yesterday (smooth 1-mode and textured 5-mode). I honestly can't tell a difference between the beam patterns in a side-by-side comparison (both on high). It is a rather limited test, shining onto a wall inside my house @ 5 meters.
> 
> However, when I swap out one of the reflectors for this smooth one that I bought last year for my MC-E 501b, there is a NOTICEABLE difference in the beam -- much tighter.
> 
> I'll try to take some outside pics and post them up in the next couple of nights, before I go on business travel for a month


Well, I do have some beam shots at 9 and 25 meters, but I'll just say I don't see a discernible difference between the 3 XML P60 configurations (smooth 1-mode, textured 5-mode and 5-mode with the SKU 5937 smooth reflector) and my SF-15 P7-D. Sort of disappointed in the 3rd config, it looked much better on my white interior wall at a few meters.

Will keep reading this forum with interest. I'd like a reasonable helmet-mount torch with good throw. Looking forward to Cat's flood-to-throw reviews.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

I just got a DX XML torch and it's awesome. Really happy with it.


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## rideandshoot (Dec 18, 2006)

Cat-man-do said:


> Just an update with my recent orders:
> 
> Still waiting on the flood to throw torches.  Likely somewhere in customs, should be any day now....I hope.
> 
> ...


Hey Catman.... I haven't been checking this for a while and of course it sounds like the LED marches on. You mentioned that this torch is very small and that got my attention. what kind of battery life are getting?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

rideandshoot said:


> Hey Catman.... I haven't been checking this for a while and of course it sounds like the LED marches on. You mentioned that this torch is very small and that got my attention. what kind of battery life are getting?


That is a very good question. I'll do a run time test tonight. I'm a little worried though on how it might handle the heat. I will use a fan but if I feel it's getting too hot I might have to stop the test. I don't want to damage the LED. In practical use I would only use the high mode a couple minutes at a time anyway.

On a side note the flood to throw torches are on back order according to the vendor _AliExpress_ ( even though the shipment was supposed to be already shipped ). Such it is when dealing with Chinese vendors. Since I still want these torches I will have to wait. It might not be till July till I get them, that is "IF" I get them. Since I can't get these anywhere else I will just have to be patient....need I say patience is not my finest attribute. :bluefrown: Note again: the torch I already have I did not get from AliExpress.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Continued from my previous post above:

Well I did some run tests. I was using an older Ultrafire Black/red 2400mAh cell. Left on high it was hard to detect noticeable dimming until sometime after the 1hr mark. I think it fair to say noticeable dimming definitely at 75 min. mark. At that point I took the battery out to compare with a full cell. A big difference, maybe 50%, still a good amount of light to ride with though. After that I put the original cell back in and noticed that the cell had rebounded and was providing full brightness again. ( just after a couple minutes rest ). Cell rebound only tends to last a couple minutes especially when the cell is quite depleted. I think it fair to say you might be able to get 1.5 hours in the high mode with diminished levels after the first 75 minutes. If you primarily use the mid-mode ( like me ) using high only for faster sections you should get maybe three hours from one cell. Pretty much this is what I expected. The run times are very similar to my P-7 torches only the XM-L is much brighter with a full cell. Now if you are willing to spend extra for the AW cells or Panasonic 2900mAh's, you will likely get some better run times.


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> Okay, not ordered from D/X but since this is everyones all time favorite torch thread....
> 
> I've been doing some major seaches for new torches. Looks like my efforts have paid off. I've found four set-ups I thought worth mentioning and have just pulled the trigger on three.
> 
> ...


Alrighty,
I got my XML 26650 light in the other day and unpacked it.
Looks great.
Comes with an extra clicky switch and switch cover, as well as a lanyard.
I put the battery in and it works good. Very bright with a good beam pattern.
So I decided to put the extension tube on and try it with the second battery.
Hooked it all up and it looked great, but then it went dead.
So I took the extension tube off and tried it with a single cell and it was barely illuminating the led.
The modes were still working though, but it was only running at a couple lumens.
So I used my superman grip to unscrew the head, which was glued on pretty good.
The pill screws into the head, so I took that out and inspected it.
There was a broken solder point connecting the driver to the pill so I resoldered that and beefed up the 2 solder points to 6.
Much sturdier.
I put it all back together and it was the same. Still dead.
So I took the pill out again and desoldered the leads going to the LED and tried running a quick zap from a mostly depleted 18650 cell and it would only illuminate very dimly.
At that point I figured it was the XML emitter.
Luckily I have a whole drawer full of DIY LED parts so I grabbed one of my XML emitters.
Cleaned off the thermal paste from the pill, put on some fresh arctic silver and soldered in the new XML.
Reassembled the light and put the single 26650 in and it worked great!!!! It actually looked a little better than the stock version.
I used a T6 XML.
So I decided to try it with the extension tube and it blew the LED again!!!!!!
So now at this point I have determined that the driver is not suited to a 2 cell setup.
So I went through the same process of fixing it again and will just run it as a single cell light.
I don't really mind tinkering with things, and overall am NOW very happy with the light.
I'm glad I got it.
I will most likely at some point change out the driver to a 3 mode 2.8a driver from shiningbeam that I have sitting here, but am not willing to crack into this thing again at this point.
If you do buy this light, don't get the 2 cell version. Also plan on needing to beef up the solder joints on the driver/pill.
I will try to get some beamshots here in the near future.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

savagemann said:


> Alrighty,
> 
> So I decided to put the extension tube on and try it with the second battery.
> Hooked it all up and it looked great, but then it went dead.....
> ...


Oh my! It is somewhat confusing though. I'm wondering why the led blew out?  
I mean if the driver wasn't able to handle the extra voltage, you would think the driver would have blown out!  Glad to hear you have it all working though. Also good to know you like the beam pattern. Now what I really want to know is how much run time you get out of the single 26650 cell on high. :ihih: ...what capacity cell did you buy?

Anyway, when you get a chance you might want to give the seller some feedback about the 2 cell problem.


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

I have a feeling the driver is a linear driver......so it shot several too many volts into the led.
Something like that.
I'm thinking the light started as just a single cell version, and they updated it to take 2 cells without reworking the driver.
I got the 4000mAh cells.
Have not had a chance to do a runtime test.
Will try to do so soon as well as get a few beamshots.
I can compare it to the SF15 and a few other p7 torches as well as an XPG torch I have put together as my edc light.
I will be talking to the supplier asap.
I've only been home a few hours here and there for the last several days so haven't had much time.
Most people would be frustrated with this torch having gone through what I have, but I actually really like it.
I probably should have taken some meter readings when I had it taken apart to see how much current it is putting out.
Judging by eye, I would say between 2.5-2.8amps.
I need to charge up the cells I have and do some runtime tests.
I bought 2 cells with the light, but already had 6 26650 cells sitting here waiting for other projects. All cells are rated 4000mAh.
The ones I had already are most likely much higher quality than the ones I ordered with the light.
Stay tuned.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Tonight did a quick ride and was able to see what my new *Yezl Z1X * XM-L 3-mode torch has to offer. I couldn't compare it to any other torches tonight because I was testing some other bike lights but judging from what I saw, I would say I'm pleased.

Like I mentioned before there is some ring-ness to the beam pattern. Not real noticeable on the trail however. What I did notice is the that beam pattern has a nice bright center area that helps the light carry farther to help light up the trail. This is particularly useful when using the mid-mode as it makes the mid-mode very useful. High mode is...well...excellent. Lots of light and decent throw when bar mounted. I did have to wrap a strip of rubber around a small section of the torch to help hold it in the torch holder. Seems to be holding fine with no slipping. This torch is simple and easy to work with. Three simple modes...High, medium, and low, all good stuff. The other day I stumbled across a web site where someone else did a review of the same torch so I though I would included it FWIW.  Yezl Z1X review link 

The review the other guy did pretty much echoes my own thoughts. I will of course compare it to other torches I own eventually. So far my only complaint is beam tint but since the output is so useful I'm not going to stress out over tint. I love how the other guy was able to tear the whole thing down. That means later on I might be able to replace the emitter with a whiter one if I really feel it necessary.

Oh, almost forgot. ...I found out that *CNquality goods* also has the Yezl flood to zoom XM-L torches as well. Unfortunately they are back ordered there as well but at least they tell you that on the product page, a big plus. I like the CNqualitygoods web site. I got my stuff quick and no shipping cost just like D/X. My stuff came in about 16 days with no problems.


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## rideandshoot (Dec 18, 2006)

Cat-man-do said:


> . I think it fair to say you might be able to get 1.5 hours in the high mode with diminished levels after the first 75 minutes.


 How would you say it compares to a XPG on the same battery?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

rideandshoot said:


> How would you say it compares to a XPG on the same battery?


Been a while since I did run test with XPG. It really is like comparing apples to oranges though. Racking my memory a bit I think the XPG ran about 80 min but with a more stable output. After that output rapidly dropped. I might have to do another run though to confirm that though. I really do need to get me a lux meter so I detect decline in output better. Judging by eye, though important, is not as accurate.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Continued review of the *Yezl Z1X* from my post above:
> .....I am seeing some minor initial problems however. A time or two I tried to turn it on and nothing happened. I broke it down and cleaned the threads but it did the same thing tonight. I think the problem is that there is no spring on the end cap. The only spring is in the front. When I take the end cap off and put back on initially the light doesn't come on when I press the switch button. After I give it a nice whack it then seems to work fine. Go figure. If I keep whacking it there is no mode jumping so that is good. I tried another battery and it seems to be fine so maybe it's just the battery ( which had some cover issues ).....


From my earlier post: I used this torch for the first time last night on my bars and had some real problems. Sudden turn offs, intermittent mode switches.. 
At first I thought it was the spring but after some adjustments it was even worse..:madman:
Then I tried tightening the copper ring inside where the driver is. I did get it to turn a little. No more jumping around of the modes. Maybe I got it, not sure yet but that seems to be helping for the moment. If it continues I might have to put a drop of solder on it to sure things up. I don't want to do that though unless I have to. At a later date I might want to take it apart.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> From my earlier post: I used this torch for the first time last night on my bars and had some real problems. Sudden turn offs, intermittent mode switches..
> At first I thought it was the spring but after some adjustments it was even worse..:madman:
> Then I tried tightening the copper ring inside where the driver is. I did get it to turn a little. No more jumping around of the modes. Maybe I got it, not sure yet but that seems to be helping for the moment. If it continues I might have to put a drop of solder on it to sure things up. I don't want to do that though unless I have to. At a later date I might want to take it apart.


Continued from above: Seems to work fine now. Works very well on the bike. The only problem now is that I don't trust it 100%. I've had problems with these brass O-rings on other torches before and sometimes the issue will repeat itself or get worse after a period of time. So far though the issue has not returned. ~ ~ ~

I am still waiting on my flood to throw torches from AliExpress. After corresponding with the vendor on their site I was told the product was back ordered, due to arrive in June. Regardless I keep getting automated e-mails saying the order has shipped. A total PITA. If I don't get it by the middle of June the payment gets canceled.


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## randomcar (Jun 10, 2011)

got an idea of different types of torches.
thx for this thread


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## GBOS (Jun 19, 2011)

Hi guys, 
please I need some help because Im really already getting crazy in this choosing of flashlight. 

I need a flashlight for ocasional night drive on non-lit road with cars. I just want to see the road in front myself so I can know that there isn't some hole in front of me or something else on the road. So Im real newbie for all this flashlight and there is so many choices and im more than a little confused.
So, i supoise I dont need much throw, I need some spill maybe, and I dont want to blind drivers coming from different direction...

Also important, I'm looking for something cheap, 20 USD MAX, can bbe cheaper two.

So at first I was lookin for q5, and now Im looking r5 and maybe even some xml (but I dont know if that would be overkill for me, or two narrow spill, I think I dont need big throw)

So please help, give me some recomendation from dx, kaido or ebay. (cheaper the better, but i dont wont ma LED burnt after one drive or similar)
dealextreme.com/p/x2000-flood-to-throw-zooming-glass-optics-cree-p4-wc-led-flashlight-1-18650-1445

This have good reviews, dealextreme.com/p/ultrafire-p10-r5-cree-xr-g-r5-5-mode-350-lumen-memory-led-flashlight-1-18650-42972

And now I have stumbled here on this kaido and some xml lamps, but I dont know if they are 
I was looking at, among many others, at these are reliable

Pls help because Im really getting crazy with all this choosing :nonod:


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

I am terribly deprived because I only have one dx torch xml p60, so I guess that has to be my favourite, $18.90 delivered in the usual 3-4 weeks. I like the fact that it has a p60 module so I can drop in any replacement I want. The module was not a good fit in the host, but that was easy to fix with instructions from this thread

GBOS welcome to the confusing world of chinese marketing. Best description I have heard is "_same same but different_". I suspect one of the reasons you are having trouble choosing is because you want a reliable light, but no-one can tell you because whether you get a reliable one will depend on how you fare in the chinese lottery.

Best advice I can give you is pick one that has the features you want, then read this trouble shooting guide on candlepowerforums so you know how to fix it if your stars were not in alignment today.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

hey find-bruce, your links doesn't work cause you are behind a proxy server.... :nono::eekster:


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

Thanks whitedog1 (you mean there is more than 1??) I didn't realise the poxy server screwed up links I posted. I would prefer not to have to use a poxy server, but until the forum gnomes fix the problem I can't otherwise view this forum on my home pc.

I have edited the post on another pc to fix up the links


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

you had 3 links in your post i referred to! thanks for editing!!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> ....I am still waiting on my flood to throw torches from AliExpress. After corresponding with the vendor on their site I was told the product was back ordered, due to arrive in June. Regardless I keep getting automated e-mails saying the order has shipped. A total PITA. If I don't get it by the middle of June the payment gets canceled.


Cat crap... I knew I should of canceled when I had the chance. Well wouldn't you know it, today the order shows up....4 days after I reordered one from somewhere else. :bluefrown:
I suppose that wouldn't be so bad if it had turned out the torches were great buys but unfortunately that is not the case. The flood to throw stuff pretty much sucks. The XP-G version is not too bad but the XM-L version comes no where near what I was hoping for ( Turveyed I should have listened to you.. ).

They are quite nice looking and compact and both are three mode only (H-M-L ) but there is a really nasty outer ring that accompanies the beam pattern. At first I thought it was caused by an aluminum outer ring on the lens. With that in mind I tried covering it with black tape but it had absolutely no effect on the ring whatsoever. :madman: Nope, it looks like the ring comes from an internal projection of the optic works. As such I'm pretty much SOL as the front part of the torch is pretty much sealed off. For the most part all my other torches provide a much better beam pattern and are also much brighter. I don't know why but all the Yezl torches I own seem to have a bluish tint to the output ( which is something I don't particularly like ).

Oh well, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Well, at least the Yezl Z1X ( which I already had ) wasn't too bad although I might try modding it with an XM-L that has a whiter tint.

I'll still give the Flood to Throws a trail test for the hell of it but I'll not be holding my breath hoping for the best.


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## calcobra98 (Jul 20, 2011)

Bump....


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## dk11 (Apr 30, 2010)

Hi,I'm looking for a recommendation for two torches.

For myself,I already have a DIY set of lights I built a while back (3x Cree Q5 LED's)that will be bar mounted so I'm looking for a torch to mount on my helmet to go along with these(really only want to spend only about $30 for torch/batteries/charger)

Also a torch for helmet mounting for a buddy whos new to night riding(not started yet but the shorter evenings wont be too far around the corner)

Not sure what LED's are the best at the moment,so any recommendations would be welcome


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

dk11, not sure of you've seen these yet or not, but they _could_ put an end to using torches as bike lights for a lot of people.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

fightnut said:


> dk11, not sure of you've seen these yet or not, but they _could_ put an end to using torches as bike lights for a lot of people.


Same price as 2 torches, but with batterys + charger + some kinda mount, I've got another make from KD more torch cut down like but works great very similar price.

Dragged me back from being entirely torch bases after many years.


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## dk11 (Apr 30, 2010)

fightnut said:


> dk11, not sure of you've seen these yet or not, but they _could_ put an end to using torches as bike lights for a lot of people.


No,hadn't seen those actually,hell that would probably make it a waste of time to run my DIY light on the bars if I had that on my helmet!

Does anybody have any real experience of those lights?I can only assume the issues with the original DX MS light batter pack was resolved for this


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Ok, I know I just talked about how torches could be on their way out as bike lights, but since this thread IS about torches, I thought this one was really intriguing.

I used "zoomable" (aka - "zoom to throw") torches for one season and liked them for the money. The first ones I had were P4's, then I got some Q5's and always wished they made something more powerful.

The beam pics look decent too (no rings like the others I've used), just nice even FLOOD, good for the bars.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

dk11 said:


> No,hadn't seen those actually,hell that would probably make it a waste of time to run my DIY light on the bars if I had that on my helmet!
> 
> Does anybody have any real experience of those lights?*I can only assume the issues with the original DX MS light batter pack was resolved for this*


With these kind of lights never assume anything. Now if you *HOPE* the issues with batteries is resolved that would be a safer statement. :thumbsup:

At least you can now buy a dedicated bike light for about the same cost as a good torch. Regardless, torches offer the option of lighter weight/smaller footprint. This is what keeps me coming back to torches.

Lately I've been using my* Ultrafire 501B torch host with my Kaidomain XM-L 5-mode drop-in module. *I'm starting to like this more than the XP-E drop-in because it really rocks on high and has a wider over-all beam pattern. All that and it still gets decent throw and has a great usable mid-mode for when going slower. Anyway, when not using the MS808E this torch combo is the next best thing. Eventually I will find a way to make the 808E wireless but until then I'll continue using this torch set-up.

*Fightnut,* That Zoom to throw torch you linked to might have a nice beam pattern with no rings but that thing is a Monster.  IMO, way too big for helmet use.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> . Regardless, torches offer the option of lighter weight/smaller footprint. This is what keeps me coming back to torches.


You're right, and another great thing about torches is they can be used as......well, torches! Off the bike. So they can serve dual purpose, which makes them an even better value.



Cat-man-do said:


> *Fightnut,* That Zoom to throw torch you linked to might have a nice beam pattern with no rings but that thing is a Monster.  IMO, way too big for helmet use.


Definitely not a helmet light (but then, I don't like any torches for helmet use anyway). However, I think it looks worse in the pic then it really is (think that dude has a small hand! lol). The measurements don't look so bad.
Either way, it's a torch, and it's a flood, so it should be on bars anyway (or just used to walk my dog at night, ha).


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## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

fightnut said:


> Ok, I know I just talked about how torches could be on their way out as bike lights, but since this thread IS about torches, I thought this one was really intriguing.
> 
> I used "zoomable" (aka - "zoom to throw") torches for one season and liked them for the money. The first ones I had were P4's, then I got some Q5's and always wished they made something more powerful.
> 
> The beam pics look decent too (no rings like the others I've used), just nice even FLOOD, good for the bars.


I have that light. Fully extended is not that long at all comparing to a P7 torch. Retract is shorter. The head diameter is slightly larger.

The torch uses a magnifying glass to achieve the focus of the beam. It produce a square beam when zoom in as this example shows at a distant of 5ft. The picture shows the beam to be about a size of a lightswitch with three switch. It also produce a round 8ft diameter beam covering a wall when retracted at 5ft!

The output of the light is really not that impressive. The light transmission of the lens cuts out lots of the lumens. There is no reflector inside and it is coated black which I think makes it worse. I tried as a helmet light and can't stand the square beam shot, but does it makes one heck of a close in flood lamp.

On my kitchen scale, the light weights 164 grams without battery. About 20 grams more than my old DX P7.


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## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

I just received my 2500 lumens Dry 3 x XML direct drive torch from CNqualitygoods. Definately not an helmet light by any means, but the output is totally awesome. So impressive that I took the time to make it a handlebar light. I DIY a homemade saddle for it. I mounted it on my commuter for durability testing for the upcomming week.

By far it is the brightest lights in my arsenal. It is at least twice or three times brighter than my Bikeray IV. It easily out throw my MS XML. I took some beam picture comparing the BR IV with the Dry 3 x XML. The camera setting is at F4.0, 1sec, and 200 ISO. The beamshot of the BR IV is here. The beamshot of the Dry is here. That power pole is over 250ft distant. I was across the street and zoom in on the roof top with the camera. It is clearly visible that this thing is one heck of a light. However, it does gets very hot for the first 10 minute even fan cooled, After about 15 minutes, the battery voltage drops down enough that the LED does not have to dissapate as much heat but yet still throwing out tons of lumens.

Just for the heck of it, I did a video in the outdoor in the sun. I had the BR IV strobing in the lower right corner in the shade while the DRY 3 x XML starts at the upper right corner (in the sunlight) moving toward the BR IV. It cleary shows how bright this torch is. It might be one torch that worth a review? I'm thinking of getting the four mode which is regulated and not direct driven which will cut down on the heat and increase the safety factor keeping the heat away from the 18650 batteries.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

colleen c said:


> I just received my 2500 lumens Dry 3 x XML direct drive torch from CNqualitygoods. Definately not an helmet light by any means, but the output is totally awesome. So impressive that I took the time to make it a handlebar light. I DIY a homemade saddle for it. I mounted it on my commuter for durability testing for the upcomming week.
> 
> By far it is the brightest lights in my arsenal. It is at least twice or three times brighter than my Bikeray IV. It easily out throw my MS XML. I took some beam picture comparing the BR IV with the Dry 3 x XML. .


Definitely a MONSTER of a torch if I ever saw one.  I like it but DAMN the thing is big. You would definitely have to have a strong mount to keep that stable on the bars but if you're looking for something over 2000 lumen OTF this certainly fits the bill as long as you don't mind something with that size of a footprint on your bars.

Personally I'm still waiting for a more compact set-up using the 26650 battery and one XM-L. Yes, CNqualitygoods has one but not as compact as the 4Sevens Maelstrom X-12 version....And speaking of such, 4Sevens did come out with an XM-L version ( the X-10 ) of the Maelstrom using a 26650 ( finally!).. Unfortunately they did not take my advice and make it a 3-mode. :madman: It has high ( 640lm )@( 1.8hr ) and low (100lm ) @( 15hrs). Now if they had included a 300lm mode it could of ran for 6 hrs!  The X-12 is a bit brighter but still no mid mode. If one of these had a mid-mode I would of bought one in a second. Being US made with a IPX8 rating :ihih:...Oh yeah, I'd of bought one. Oh well, maybe I'll write a letter to the Chinese and they will make one ( a clone ) and include a mid-mode. Price....$37....:thumbsup:


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## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Definitely a MONSTER of a torch if I ever saw one.  I like it but DAMN the thing is big. You would definitely have to have a strong mount to keep that stable on the bars but if you're looking for something over 2000 lumen OTF this certainly fits the bill as long as you don't mind something with that size of a footprint on your bars.
> 
> Personally I'm still waiting for a more compact set-up using the 26650 battery and one XM-L. Yes, CNqualitygoods has one but not as compact as the 4Sevens Maelstrom X-12 version....And speaking of such, 4Sevens did come out with an XM-L version ( the X-10 ) of the Maelstrom using a 26650 ( finally!).. Unfortunately they did not take my advice and make it a 3-mode. :madman: It has high ( 640lm )@( 1.8hr ) and low (100lm ) @( 15hrs). Now if they had included a 300lm mode it could of ran for 6 hrs!  The X-12 is a bit brighter but still no mid mode. If one of these had a mid-mode I would of bought one in a second. Being US made with a IPX8 rating :ihih:...Oh yeah, I'd of bought one. Oh well, maybe I'll write a letter to the Chinese and they will make one ( a clone ) and include a mid-mode. Price....$37....:thumbsup:


I ended up making the saddle out of a 1.5 inch PVC pipe. I had to use Velcro along with the oring to keep it in place. My handle bar is the larger size (31.mm?). I was able to use a metal bar clamp.

That light is too bright to use in strobe. It hurts just seeing the strobe reflected off asphalt. I like the lumens and can't hardly wait for NR 3000 lumen light to roll off the production line. In the meantime, I ordered switch, strain relief, and a cap to mod it up. I'm gonna make it only three inches long running on external 4500 mah LiIon battery.

I was one click away from ordering the Maelstrom X10 a week ago, but at $150 with charger and spare battery, I decided to wait for the KD C8 to arrived. That x10 is rated up there almost in the same class as most 2x18650 torch, but yeah having no mid mode is a bummer.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

colleen c said:


> ... I decided to wait for the KD C8 to arrived. That x10 is rated up there almost in the same class as most 2x18650 torch, but yeah having no mid mode is a bummer.


I discovered last night that the KD C-8 comes apart real easy. The LED is mounted to a screw in module and the battery tube unscrews as well. Last week I threw my back out and was off work for three days. By this weekend I might be able to ride again. I can't wait to try my C8 on the helmet and this time I WON'T take the wrong one! :lol:


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## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> I discovered last night that the KD C-8 comes apart real easy. The LED is mounted to a screw in module and the battery tube unscrews as well. Last week I threw my back out and was off work for three days. By this weekend I might be able to ride again. I can't wait to try my C8 on the helmet and this time I WON'T take the wrong one! :lol:


Is the pill screw in to the lighthead behind the reflector and remain intact without the tube?

I'm hoping I can remove the tube, cap it, run external wire, switch and battery without having to cut the tube and maching new thread.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

colleen c said:


> Is the pill screw in to the lighthead behind the reflector and remain intact without the tube?
> 
> I'm hoping I can remove the tube, cap it, run external wire, switch and battery without having to cut the tube and maching new thread.


Yep, the pill and reflector stay with the main head. This set-up would s-simple to mod. Heck I might even give it a try if I like how it works on the helmet.. The biggest problem as I see it would be figuring out a mounting solution.


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## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yep, the pill and reflector stay with the main head. This set-up would s-simple to mod. Heck I might even give it a try if I like how it works on the helmet.. The biggest problem as I see it would be figuring out a mounting solution.


Kewl, that's what I was hoping for. As for the mounting I am planning to use the larger TwoFish lock block. Those block can handle the larger reflector head.

I just got done hacking my previous mention Dry 3 x XML torch. I was able to make it as short as possible with switch and all. It now weight 238 gram not including battery. Lot of the weight was trim off by not using the tube and original switch. I used the larger block for mounting. Here is a *picture* of the mod. The battery and pack is only temporary until I find a lightweight flat polymer pack and case. All those tech vocational school I took paid off in this mod.  Now I have at least 2000 lumens at my disposal off the top of my helmet and a head warmer in the colder weather 

I'm planning to do the same to the C8 torch and use that on hot days where I prefer the light weight on my helmet. Now I cannot wait for it to arrive.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

colleen c said:


> Kewl, that's what I was hoping for. As for the mounting I am planning to use the larger TwoFish lock block. Those block can handle the larger reflector head.
> 
> I just got done hacking my previous mention Dry 3 x XML torch. I was able to make it as short as possible with switch and all. It now weight 238 gram not including battery. Lot of the weight was trim off by not using the tube and original switch. I used the larger block for mounting....


When you said you cut it down I thought you were going to use it bar mounted! 
Still kind'a big for a helmet light but what the heck.  The only problem using the Two fish LB is that it does cover the light a bit , thus hampering the thermal cooling. Anyway, I like the idea of cutting it down only I would of went with bar mounting. Since it's a mod, no reason not to add a remote as well. Nice to know that you can have over 2000 lumen for only $75 if you're willing to do a couple easy mods.

I also happen to notice while perusing the CNQuality site that they are offering more types of the Yezl torches using XM-L. The nice part is that the Yezl's do away with the flash modes in most cases ( which makes using one better for all-round bike use. ). Plus they are listing the output for the modes and making some good choices.

I might just give up looking for a decent 26650 torch. I keep reading that the major Japanese battery manufacturers will be making true 4000mAh 18650 cells within a couple years. They already have some that are coming close and can handle larger current pulls as well. ( i.g. Redilast and Panasonic NCR series )


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## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yep, the pill and reflector stay with the main head. This set-up would s-simple to mod. Heck I might even give it a try if I like how it works on the helmet.. The biggest problem as I see it would be figuring out a mounting solution.


I just got my KD C8 XML. Very much impress with the throw I get from this torch. It throws as good as my 2 x 18650 cell Jetbeam BC40.

I did wanted to mod it as an helmet slight and found a way that may work. Here are the *parts*. The bar clamp is for the larger bar dia. The cap is a 3/4 threaded cap which I scrape some of the first few thread off so that it can be slip on to the light and glue in with some liquid nail. *Picture* of it after it is glue in. *Here* is what it looks like after it is all together. Now I have to shop for a remote reverse clicky and a a battery pack for extended run time.


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## LiveFreeThenDie (Mar 21, 2010)

colleen c said:


> I just got my KD C8 XML. Very much impress with the throw I get from this torch. It throws as good as my 2 x 18650 cell Jetbeam BC40.


I still haven't pulled the trigger on any XML light replacement for my P7 :-/ How hot does this thing get? How much run time on hight?

I keep reading reviews on various XML lights where people report the light gets very hot on high and not to run it for more than 10 minutes on high. On a moving bike you get some airflow that will help cooling. I don't have any issues with my MTE SF-15 P7 flashlight. I can get two rides home from work before I have to recharge battery.

Because of this heat, there are no reports on how long it will run on high. As I already have a decent number of flashlights, I don't particularly want to spend $30 on a flashlight I won't use.

Does any have recommendation for XML flashlight that will serve as a decent P7 replacement?

Thanks!


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## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

LiveFreeThenDie said:


> I still haven't pulled the trigger on any XML light replacement for my P7 :-/ How hot does this thing get? How much run time on hight?
> 
> I keep reading reviews on various XML lights where people report the light gets very hot on high and not to run it for more than 10 minutes on high. On a moving bike you get some airflow that will help cooling. I don't have any issues with my MTE SF-15 P7 flashlight. I can get two rides home from work before I have to recharge battery.
> 
> ...


I popped the cap off the mod (only glued in two spot) and put back the tube and switch back on the light. That's one of the plus with not having to cut the OEM tube. I ran some test with AW 2600 18650. At a fully charge battery, the tail cap amp draw was 1.57amp. It got warm after 5 minutes and stay at that temp for the whole 1hr and 15 minutes. I did not have to let it cool off during the test.

At about 45 minutes, the battery was still reading 3.73 volts and there was a slight dimishing of overall lumens but still very bright. At this point the lighthead was slightly cooler. At 1hr 15minutes, the battery read 3.27 volts. That's where I figure it was a good point to stop the test since it was close to the Vf of the XML led. The light would have ran longer until the battery cutout or the driver cutoff, but it will probably be much noticed in lower brightness. The larger reflector and head of the C8 helps out the heat transfer for cooling. I was able to run continously without having to cool it down nor was it too hot to touch. The ambient temperature was 78 degree in the garage. I had my initial doubt this torch will take the heat when I took the head apart and saw the led not center nor was it fully in contact with the reflector and no heatsink brass ring like some other manufactor uses and yet weighting at only 153 gram according to my scale. However, it worked without too much heat issue.

The tint is very nice just like what *Cat's* mentioned (thanks Cat). If you have an older P7, there will be some difference in beam pattern. The C8 has a hot spot while most P7 are more flood and spill.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

LiveFreeThenDie said:


> I still haven't pulled the trigger on any XML light replacement for my P7 :-/ How hot does this thing get? How much run time on hight?
> 
> I keep reading reviews on various XML lights where people report the light gets very hot on high and not to run it for more than 10 minutes on high. On a moving bike you get some airflow that will help cooling. I don't have any issues with my MTE SF-15 P7 flashlight. I can get two rides home from work before I have to recharge battery.
> 
> ...


LFTD....I'm afraid we're all pretty much in the same boat. The SF-15 is a very good torch. If it is working well for you, you might not want to replace it. Right now I am seeing some interesting offerings on CNQualitygoods using the XM-L. I should also mention that D/X also has a new lineup of XM-L torches. D/X is also now able to ship most torches from a warehouse in the USA which is a big plus. As long as it's in stock no more waiting. Unfortunately this does not apply to their bike lights as yet but hopefully that will be forthcoming. Let us not forget Kaidomain who also has a nice array of XM-L torches.

Right now I have my eye on a couple torches from CNQG that look like they might provide a good replacement for something like the SF-15. In my case I'm looking for the right beam pattern, the right beam tint and true three mode action. I'll likely be pulling the trigger on something tonight. It takes 16 days to get something from CNQG which is not too bad. If D/X had the same stuff, with the new N. American warehouse I would of bought from them and had it in 3 days *sigh*. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. For our friends in the U.K. , D/X has a new warehouse there as well. When you look at the D/X products they will tell you the SKU number using the other warehouses in red print. You might still have to wait on batteries and their other stuff but at least the torches can be had in days.


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## p_cycle (Jul 22, 2006)

have a SF15 from D/X and recently bought 2x XML(http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=11097) from Kaidomain.
well the XMLs are definitely brighter. the ones I got are a little bit longer and that extra length is taken up by the reflector.
this practically translates into a tighter beam. actually the diameter of the luminous disc seems about the same but there is more luminance in the center and it fades more aggressively moving outwards than in SF-15. you wouldn't probably notice without a side by side comparison though.

didn't have much play time with them but they get as hot as the SF15, no hotter maybe a tad cooler. but mid is more than usable for the average trail so running them on mid seems a no brainer. both for heat and duration.


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## LiveFreeThenDie (Mar 21, 2010)

*KD C8 on the way*

Thanks Colleen and Cat Man. I've ordered the KD C8. It looks like it is not being horribly overdriven like some of the other XM-Ls are. It will at least serve as a replacement should the P7 die. You can't beat torches for a small frame and compact setup. :thumbsup:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

LiveFreeThenDie said:


> Thanks Colleen and Cat Man. I've ordered the KD C8. It looks like it is not being horribly overdriven like some of the other XM-Ls are. It will at least serve as a replacement should the P7 die. You can't beat torches for a small frame and compact setup. :thumbsup:


You know when Colleen posted how much current the K/D C8 draws on high I almost jumped out of my skin. That's because I swore that it drew over 2A. Then I hooked mine up to check it and low and behold I got the same exact reading as Colleen. :lol:
Oh well, what can I say but DAMN, it is one bright torch for only drawing 1500-1600ma!

My K/D XM-L drop-in draws more than that....And speaking of that, The K-D XM-L 5-mode drop-in torch I use draws over 2000ma. Doesn't have the throw of the C-8 but damn it has a nice all around beam pattern ( for either helmet or bars ) and a very good mid-mode not to mention a very white beam tint which I just love. Since it's a drop-in , most drop in torches have a smaller foot print. I am finding myself using this torch more and more and because of that I am going to buy another. I've looked at other brands of drop-ins but the other brands usually limit the output to 1500ma. Personally I like the 2000ma output of the K/D. It is damn nice. I likely will buy one of the other brands as well just to see how I like it. At least at that level , even on high you should get nearly 1.5hr run time. I figure it's worth a try.


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## anekin007 (May 23, 2011)

Lots of interesting info on torches. Im new to biking and became a fan of night riding. I been flipping through the pages and it seems the KD C8 is a popular choice. I think I will give it a go. I see a mixture of battery brand usage. Can anyone recommend a good battery for runtime with the KD C8?


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## LiveFreeThenDie (Mar 21, 2010)

Trustfire "flame" 18650s. 2400 mah protected (sku.20392 at DX, productid=11081 at KD) are the best of the cheap batteries. AW are the best and sell like hotcakes. If you want higher capacity batteries, these are probably the best: AW Sales thread.. Given how hungry the newer LEDs are, the AW batteries are probably a good investment.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

anekin007 said:


> Lots of interesting info on torches. Im new to biking and became a fan of night riding. I been flipping through the pages and it seems the KD C8 is a popular choice. I think I will give it a go. I see a mixture of battery brand usage. Can anyone recommend a good battery for runtime with the KD C8?


Best bang for the buck for me are the Red Ultrafire XSL 2600mAh cells. These stack up pretty well against the higher priced AW, Redilast and Panasonic cells but are a third of the cost.


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> My K/D XM-L drop-in draws more than that....And speaking of that, The K-D XM-L 5-mode drop-in torch I use draws over 2000ma. Doesn't have the throw of the C-8 but damn it has a nice all around beam pattern ( for either helmet or bars ) and a very good mid-mode not to mention a very white beam tint which I just love. Since it's a drop-in , most drop in torches have a smaller foot print. I am finding myself using this torch more and more and because of that I am going to buy another. I've looked at other brands of drop-ins but the other brands usually limit the output to 1500ma. Personally I like the 2000ma output of the K/D. It is damn nice. I likely will buy one of the other brands as well just to see how I like it. At least at that level , even on high you should get nearly 1.5hr run time. I figure it's worth a try.


Do you happen to have the SKU for that KD drop-in torch? Or was it a drop-in you bought to put into another host? TY.


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## Xtyling (Apr 21, 2011)

Slightly out of post topic... But I'm hoping to get the best recommendation for a battery charger for the Red Ultrafire XSL 2600mAh or AW P18650-29. Thanks


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## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

Xtyling said:


> Slightly out of post topic... But I'm hoping to get the best recommendation for a battery charger for the Red Ultrafire XSL 2600mAh or AW P18650-29. Thanks


IMHO, I personally love my Pila charger.

Pricey at around $50 but well worth the cost. I have two DX and one unknown brand charger and they all charge my 18650 to 4.22v. To me that's a little bit on the high side. My Pila is more consistent. Charging the battery at the upper end will harm them in the long term. I run multiple cell (2 and 3 x 18650) torch and it's important to keep the cell in balance. The DX charger is probably ok for single cell torch.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

random walk said:


> Do you happen to have the SKU for that KD drop-in torch? Or was it a drop-in you bought to put into another host? TY.


Running late today, I'll get back to you ....


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## Xtyling (Apr 21, 2011)

Thank you Colleen C! I appreciate all the advice on this thread... I'm preparing myself to buy a few torches, batteries and a charger. Woohoo! Soon to be night riding!!!


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## LiveFreeThenDie (Mar 21, 2010)

I have the el cheapo sku.06105 from DX. Batteries charge to 4.19-4.20 volts when the light first turns green. The batteries will continue to get trickle charged, so I set a timer to make sure I don't over charge. And I charge on the kitchen counter where explosion or fire won't burn my house down. All LiIon batteries can be dangerous, including laptop batteries. I no longer leave my laptop charging all the time. There's threads about chargers in the Batteries forum at candlepowerforums.com. The Pila is highly recommended.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

random walk said:


> Do you happen to have the SKU for that KD drop-in torch? Or was it a drop-in you bought to put into another host? TY.


This is the link to the drop in. Notice the good reviews on it. KD sells a 401B (5-mode ) with a newer version of the XM-L that is U-bin. Should be brighter but no reviews and no way to know the tint or what the high mode is regulated at. The T-6 on the other hand is the tried and true.


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> This is the link to the drop in. Notice the good reviews on it. KD sells a 401B (5-mode ) with a newer version of the XM-L that is U-bin. Should be brighter but no reviews and no way to know the tint or what the high mode is regulated at. The T-6 on the other hand is the tried and true.


Thanks!


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## just_as (Mar 23, 2011)

I've been reading about torches for hours now and I'm so confused.. Have tested Aurora AK-P7 (SKU 16091) last night. Hi mode is realy bright, i could almost ride the track at full speed. Mid mode is great too, good flood. Haven't noticed any overheat, used at Hi mode for 1 hour. Strobe/SOS modes are useless, so I almost ordered the one with 2 modes (SKU 15691). But then I came here and read about UltraFire SF-15 and the KD C8 CREE XML T6 and i have no idea which one to order.. Whats the best choise here, if I'm looking for best bar torche? For now it would be my only torche, maybe in future will look somethink for helmet. Thanx for help


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## pabcor (Aug 25, 2011)

Power but small and light 1 or 3 modes

fandyfire 2130 xm-l 1 mode 700 lumen
fandyfire 2130 xm-l 3 mode 900 lumen

more power and light

ultrafire c2-t60 xm-l 2 mode 1200 lumen
ultrafire kh-t60 xm-l 5 mode 1200 lumen

:thumbsup:


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## anekin007 (May 23, 2011)

I made a order through KD last week and it keep saying order pending packaging. What is the shipping time for everyone's order? How long would it take to ship to california?


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## LiveFreeThenDie (Mar 21, 2010)

pabcor said:


> Power but small and light 1 or 3 modes
> 
> fandyfire 2130 xm-l 1 mode 700 lumen
> fandyfire 2130 xm-l 3 mode 900 lumen
> ...


I had a hard time deciding between the last two. But Cat-man-do and colleen give it the thumbs up so I have the ultrafire c2 on order. And I think the fandyfire (horrid name) seems the best upgrade for the TR-801 on the helmet. Although I might splurge for Siningbeam's S-mini (maybe even an XP-G version). Even though the advertised lumens are lower than the fandy, I trust that the Shiningbeam numbers are more realistic than advertised output on DX lights. There's not a lot of choice for smaller 4.5" x 1" diamater helmet torches. I am hoping the larger light is wider and the smaller lights narrower.


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

For a helmet torch, I have been using the SkyRay Cree XPE. It has been an excellent light. I even used it during a 24 hr (edit: oops originally put 2 hr) event with 3000mAh batteries, and I was switching batteries every 2 - 2.5 hours (though they were not out). You probably know if you shop at DX you cannot go by their run times. The 320L Skyray is stated to run for 50 minutes (not the 120+ minutes I experienced), and the 700L SkyRay states 1.5 hours. Go figure?!?


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## pabcor (Aug 25, 2011)

Now i am waiting for that light

Ultrafire c6-t60-cree-xm-lt6-3-mode-1200lm

but that is more light

Ultrafire v6-t60-xm-lt6-3-mode-1200lm


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

IMHO said:


> For a helmet torch, I have been using the SkyRay Cree XPE. It has been an excellent light. I even used it during a 24 hr (edit: oops originally put 2 hr) event with 3000mAh batteries, and I was switching batteries every 2 - 2.5 hours (though they were not out). You probably know if you shop at DX you cannot go by their run times. The 320L Skyray is stated to run for 50 minutes (not the 120+ minutes I experienced), and the 700L SkyRay states 1.5 hours. Go figure?!?


To *IMHO* above ^^^..... Since you're using a drop-in torch you just might want to try out the K/D XM-L T-6 drop-in I mentioned a couple of posts back. I have a XP-E 5-mode drop-in as well and while it does have excellent throw it is a more narrow beam pattern. For the $15 it's worth giving the XM-L a try. I don't think you will be disappointed.

With the XP-E drop-in the only real useful setting is the high mode,( at least with mine, 5-mode ) _when used on the helmet_. With mid-mode the output sharply drops off. On the other hand the XM-L 5-mode drop-in high mode is freaking bright ( although with a wider beam pattern ) which can be quite useful on terrain with lots of trail Hoo-doo laying around. No, it won't run as long on high but the trade off is the *excellent mid-mode* that not only gives plenty of light for all-around use but will run almost three hours at that output level to boot on one cell ( 2600mAh Ultrafire red ).

The funny thing is I always ran the XP-E till one day by accident I grabbed the wrong torch and put it in my bag. Since both used the same type host they looked the same. When it was dark enough to turn the lights on I was like, "What the hell"!! ...as 700lm is much brighter than the 300-320 (est) lm of the XP-E. After the short down hill I switch it to medium and once again I was totally taken aback! Goodness, what a great mid-mode! After that I continued to use it on the helmet. ( Great output, great mid-mode with a small foot print...a total Win, Win, Win! )

If you decide to buy one get the K/D one I linked to. Other people sell XM-L drop-ins but some of those aren't using a driver with as much output. Anyway, I'm getting another one because it is just that good. I just hope K/D is still using the same drivers! :thumbsup:


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## slsl123 (Sep 15, 2004)

I'm interested in the KD C8 xml for handlebar mounting. Since it will be a bar mounted light looking for something with less of a hotspot and more flood. Will this light fit the bill? If not are there any wide angle lenses available for this size light similiar to the ones available for the Magicshines?


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> To *IMHO* above ^^^..... Since you're using a drop-in torch you just might want to try out the K/D XM-L T-6 drop-in I mentioned a couple of posts back. I have a XP-E 5-mode drop-in as well and while it does have excellent throw it is a more narrow beam pattern. For the $15 it's worth giving the XM-L a try. I don't think you will be disappointed.
> 
> With the XP-E drop-in the only real useful setting is the high mode,( at least with mine, 5-mode ) _when used on the helmet_. With mid-mode the output sharply drops off. On the other hand the XM-L 5-mode drop-in high mode is freaking bright ( although with a wider beam pattern ) which can be quite useful on terrain with lots of trail Hoo-doo laying around. No, it won't run as long on high but the trade off is the *excellent mid-mode* that not only gives plenty of light for all-around use but will run almost three hours at that output level to boot on one cell ( 2600mAh Ultrafire red ).
> 
> ...


If I stick with torches, I just may go that route (do you just unscrew the current one and screw in the XM-L?). Right now I am using an original Bikeray III on my bar (retrofitted with the newer bar mount) and the SkyRay on the helmet, and it has been plenty. Thinking of a dedicated, specific, helmet light (like Magic Shine/Bikeray) but hard to justify it when the torch is working fine. Thanks for the tip, for the price, you can't beat it.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

IMHO said:


> If I stick with torches, I just may go that route* (do you just unscrew the current one and screw in the XM-L?).* Right now I am using an original Bikeray III on my bar (retrofitted with the newer bar mount) and the SkyRay on the helmet, and it has been plenty. Thinking of a dedicated, specific, helmet light (like Magic Shine/Bikeray) but hard to justify it when the torch is working fine. Thanks for the tip, for the price, you can't beat it.


Yes, your torch comes apart. Disassemble the torch and the LED module ( drop-in ) just comes out. As such you can use any P-60 drop-in you want but the one I iinked to is pretty good.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Delete please...duplicate post.


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## anekin007 (May 23, 2011)

Ordered my torch about a month ago. Order placed Aug 19th and today Sept 15th I finally got it. I charged up a battery threw it in and it doesnt work. Just my luck =(

Edit: nevermind I got it to work. I flip the battery around to see what would happen and it works. Its weird. Im use to having the flat side of the battery on the spring part but with the torch its the opposite. Im very impressed on how bright this light is. I may even ditch my niterider minewt 600. I will have to do some test and comparison but im definitely impressed.


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## pabcor (Aug 25, 2011)

A good alternative are
UltraFire C6-T60 XM-LT6 5 Mode 1200 Lumen
or
Ultrafire V6-T60 XM-LT6 3 Mode 1200 Lumen

very, very light and powerful.


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## anekin007 (May 23, 2011)

I keep seeing post about KD C8 XML did I buy the right one?

http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=11097


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

anekin007 said:


> I keep seeing post about KD C8 XML did I buy the right one?
> 
> http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=11097


Yes. It is a good question though because I think there is another model on K/D that is similar. You know when got the right one because of the reviews which are all favorable listed at the bottom of the link.


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## anekin007 (May 23, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yes. It is a good question though because I think there is another model on K/D that is similar. You know when got the right one because of the reviews which are all favorable listed at the bottom of the link.


can you recommend me a good light for a helmet? The one I just received I like the beam and brightness but it is a tad bit heavy for a helmet. The light I received is 155g without the battery and with a battery it is 202g and additional weight for the helmet mount.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Just because I like the short length and lighter weight, I went ahead and ordered one of these today, with these batteries.

I'll be interested to see how bright it is, and what the run time is like when I get it.

On a recent night ride someone had a very dim "commuter" light on his handlebars. He really needed more light, and was wishing his light was on his helmet so he would have light where he was looking.

I loaned him an MTE SF-15 torch that I had, but we had to put it on his bars because that was the only kind of mount I had, plus I think it's too heavy for helmet use (just my opinion).

So that's kinda what pushed me to give this light a try. If it's lightweight enough that I can loan it out as a helmet light (using a lock block mount), and give them an extra battery to carry, this would be great.

We'll see I guess. If the output is lacking, or the run time is ridiculously short, it will make a nice torch for around the house


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## bdok (Jun 6, 2011)

Completely new to trail riding at night. Have been getting by with a few items I had around the house, but want to step it up.

Does anyone have some "go to" items to get me started. Looking for helmet light, bar light, mounts, batteries and charges.

Would like to keep cost as low as reasonable possible.

Thanks!


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

bdok, you'll probably get a lot of different opinions, but I'd go with a pair of these.

Comes with everything you need for well under $100. Then I'd stick one of these diffuser lenses on the handlebar mounted light for a nice mix of flood (handlebar) and throw (helmet).


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

fightnut said:


> Just because I like the short length and lighter weight, I went ahead and ordered one of these today, with these batteries.
> 
> I'll be interested to see how bright it is, and what the run time is like when I get it.


*fightnut.*...I hate to say this but don't get your hopes up. The torch you are buying looks very much like an older version that two years ago was sold using the old Cree P-4's ( maybe 150 lumen ). I think I owned maybe three of those. They were nice little lights but ended up being too problematic to use. The issues had involved intermittent connectivity. I did everything I could think of to fix them but finally just got rid of them as they were too unreliable. With the P-4's and 880mah cells I had they ran maybe 25-30 minutes on high. Anyway, they lasted maybe a year before the problems began.

The ones you are getting are using the newer Cree XM-L but it looks like the same host as the ones I used. There in lies the problem, with the host that is. Hopefully I will be wrong and the new torches will be better and work fine....however....don't expect long run times with those small 16340 cells unless the emitter is very under-powered.

Now if the emitter is drawing say, "800ma" on high...perhaps you may see something close to 300 lumen and maybe 30 minutes on one cell. Actually that wouldn't be so bad. Anyway, when you get these post up on how you like them.


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## 'BentRyder (Sep 17, 2011)

If you want a lightweight helmet light with an underdriven XM-L (reduced heat), give this a look.

I run the silver 504B host with the dropin appropriate for the ride of that day:

I've added a 28mm AR coated lens from Kaidomain and an upgraded switch from Manafont to run very hot XM-L modules in the 504B. It really is a very nice light at a price you simply cannot beat.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

'BentRyder said:


> If you want a lightweight helmet light with an underdriven XM-L (reduced heat), give this a look.


Hmm, it's kinda long at almost 6" though. But thanks for the link, I'm always interested to see what others are using and endorsing.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

fightnut said:


> Hmm, it's kinda long at almost 6" though. But thanks for the link, I'm always interested to see what others are using and endorsing.


*Fight*...I've found a nice little mini drop-in torch you might be interested in. This is just a host torch. Use whatever drop-in you wish. Since these use the smaller cells ( CR123 or 16340...same thing ) I would recommend maybe an XM-L 3-mode drop-in using a driver with 1500ma max. That would get you maybe 450-500 lumen on high and a run time around 20-25min. with a good cell.


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## karltimber (Sep 24, 2011)

Hi folks,
thanks for all the super info.

One question - 
which is the better model & why - look fairly similar spec wise - xml -cree - 3 modes.
sku 82510 or sku 57100 (sorry can't post links yet )

both look similar - with a good difference in price.
To be used for light trail riding at night - with helmet light too.

thx

karl.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

karltimber said:


> One question -
> which is the better model & why - look fairly similar spec wise - xml -cree - 3 modes.
> sku 82510 or sku 57100 (sorry can't post links yet )
> 
> both look similar - with a good difference in price.


Karl, the reason for the difference in price is that sku# 57100 is branded as an actual Magicshine, whereas sku# 82510 is a knock off.
The MS (Magicshine) has an orange peel reflector, a more water resistant battery, and an SOS mode rather then a fast strobe.
Also, I'm not sure on this, but I suspect that you might have to click through all 3 modes to turn sku# 82510 "off", whereas you can hold the button for a couple seconds on the MS to turn it off.

Since I already have several other lights, and since I don't ride in the rain (so water resistant battery isn't a concern of mine), I went with the cheaper knock off. 
Still waiting for it, so can't comment on it yet.


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## shutterbug67 (May 16, 2007)

IMHO said:


> For a helmet torch, I have been using the SkyRay Cree XPE. It has been an excellent light. I even used it during a 24 hr (edit: oops originally put 2 hr) event with 3000mAh batteries, and I was switching batteries every 2 - 2.5 hours (though they were not out). You probably know if you shop at DX you cannot go by their run times. The 320L Skyray is stated to run for 50 minutes (not the 120+ minutes I experienced), and the 700L SkyRay states 1.5 hours. Go figure?!?


Looks like the Skyray you have linked above is no longer available. Any other options out there? What appealed to me about this light is the longer run time...

I am looking for a torch that I can mount to my helmet with the two fishes mount (which I already have). I want something bright that I can possibly even use on medium mode to get a long run time.

BTW, is Kaidomain overseas also? are they reliable?

Need to get the torch by two weeks max. 
Thanks for your help guys


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## karltimber (Sep 24, 2011)

hi shutter,

maybe this one may do instead - 900136356 - dx model and it's from the US warehouse.
might be worth it - you could get that in 2 weeks.
very similar to the Skyray.

K


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## shutterbug67 (May 16, 2007)

karltimber said:


> hi shutter,
> 
> maybe this one may do instead - 900136356 - dx model and it's from the US warehouse.
> might be worth it - you could get that in 2 weeks.
> ...


Did not come with anything for that number :???:


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## smoovranger (Mar 22, 2010)

Try searching for 36356. When you find it, there is a link the 900136356.


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## shutterbug67 (May 16, 2007)

smoovranger said:


> Try searching for 36356. When you find it, there is a link the 900136356.


Found it... however I thought the P7 LEDs were kind of outdated, are they not? Is there a XLM LED that would fit my needs better? Just wondering


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## yomattyo (Dec 20, 2007)

Just to add another one for comments, what do you guys think of these?

UltraFire WF-501B SSC-P7-CSXO 3-Mode 900-Lumen Memory LED Flashlight with Strap (1*18650/1*17670) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

thinkin' about getting a few to use for biking but also can use the torch setup for some other hobbies where a torch would be handy - preferably something really bright with strobe capability...

Thought right now is to grab 3 of those, with one of these:

P7 Water Resistant SSC-P7 3-Mode 900-Lumen White LED Bike Light with Battery Pack Set - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

rock that on the helmet, then slap 2 torches on the handlebars, then be able to let someone borrow two of the torches if they need and i can go with one on the helmet and the p7 on the handlebars.

also, does anyone recommend a different lens or drop in for the different applications? looking to mainly do some night XC riding with this setup as well as commute a bit - but the commute will be through some XC trails...

thanks!


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## karltimber (Sep 24, 2011)

hi

just ordered the 808e 57100 from dx and then looked at the plug.
need an EU 3 pin - any adaptors on dx that suit - or any of ye have bought ?

edit - 58591 dx should do the trick.


Thx
K


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

A friend of mind just got 2 of these, and I wasn't impressed with the brightness. 
It seemed like my single MTE SF-15 (a P-7) was brighter and lit up a much larger area then both of his together.

Instead of getting 3 of those, I'd go with two of these. These are gonna be even brighter then my P-7 I mentioned above.

As far as the helmet light you linked, go with the XM-L T6 version, it's about the same price and should be brighter.



yomattyo said:


> Just to add another one for comments, what do you guys think of these?
> 
> UltraFire WF-501B SSC-P7-CSXO 3-Mode 900-Lumen Memory LED Flashlight with Strap (1*18650/1*17670) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
> 
> ...


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## yomattyo (Dec 20, 2007)

Thanks for the response - question on the one you linked to - hows the life of the battery do for you? i'd like to get a setup i know will last at least an hour for some night rides. Do you know of any way to extend them to a batter pack, or something similar? thinking about doing two of those torches, and two of the XM-L T6 lights you recommended, then i could have two setups if i talked a buddy into going along.



fightnut said:


> A friend of mind just got 2 of these, and I wasn't impressed with the brightness.
> It seemed like my single MTE SF-15 (a P-7) was brighter and lit up a much larger area then both of his together.
> 
> Instead of getting 3 of those, I'd go with two of these. These are gonna be even brighter then my P-7 I mentioned above.
> ...


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

I don't actually have that one (yet), but have read so many raving reviews about it that I am ordering one.
I can tell you that my P-7 version would run for at least an hour before dimming, at which time I'd just switch out the battery. No big deal.
You _could_ wire up a remote battery pack to run 2 or more batteries, but if you're gonna go through that extra trouble, you may as well just buy the $45 bike lights and forget the flashlights.



yomattyo said:


> Thanks for the response - question on the one you linked to - hows the life of the battery do for you? i'd like to get a setup i know will last at least an hour for some night rides. Do you know of any way to extend them to a batter pack, or something similar? thinking about doing two of those torches, and two of the XM-L T6 lights you recommended, then i could have two setups if i talked a buddy into going along.


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## yomattyo (Dec 20, 2007)

Cool, so next question would be as far as batteries go, is there one that is preferred? or that is the cheapest bang for the buck? rechargable? all that good stuff. I don't mind swappin batteries, just don't wanna be stuck without enough.



fightnut said:


> I don't actually have that one (yet), but have read so many raving reviews about it that I am ordering one.
> I can tell you that my P-7 version would run for at least an hour before dimming, at which time I'd just switch out the battery. No big deal.
> You _could_ wire up a remote battery pack to run 2 or more batteries, but if you're gonna go through that extra trouble, you may as well just buy the $45 bike lights and forget the flashlights.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Rechargeable batteries for sure. I use these.
With this charger.
I'm in the habit of turning my light off when I stop to rest, or wait for the group to regroup, so that helps extend it's run time and keeps it from getting too hot.
I just carry one extra battery, but again my rides are almost always under two hours.


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## yomattyo (Dec 20, 2007)

Can you post a link to the other X-ML T6 version you're talkin' about? I can't seem to find it, just found one that is like 78 bucks...



fightnut said:


> A friend of mind just got 2 of these, and I wasn't impressed with the brightness.
> It seemed like my single MTE SF-15 (a P-7) was brighter and lit up a much larger area then both of his together.
> 
> Instead of getting 3 of those, I'd go with two of these. These are gonna be even brighter then my P-7 I mentioned above.
> ...


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

yomattyo said:


> Can you post a link to the other X-ML T6 version you're talkin' about? I can't seem to find it, just found one that is like 78 bucks...


You can take your pick from here.

I went with Sku# 82510. Mine should be here tomorrow (whoohoo!).

You can peruse this thread for more info on these, and post questions there about them (I don't want to sidetrack the torches thread too much).

Keep up posted on what you end up with either way.


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## yomattyo (Dec 20, 2007)

another question! in ordering the torches or the headlamp style lights - anyone know how to ensure if you're ordering from the new US warehouse vs the standard DX site? i didn't see a way to just search the US warehouse...


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## shutterbug67 (May 16, 2007)

shutterbug67 said:


> Found it... however I thought the P7 LEDs were kind of outdated, are they not? Is there a XLM LED that would fit my needs better? Just wondering


Any thoughts guys on the XML torches? something that might be adequate to run and medium mode and get longer run time?

And are there any 18650 batteries that DX sells in the US warehouse? Need to get them rather quickly
How do you find the stuff on DX that is in the US warehouse?
Thanks again


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Shutterbug, if it has 3 modes that are Hi-Lo-Strobe, the low is very low from what I've seen and been reading from others.
So, I'd go with a 5 mode that has hi-med-low, etc, etc. to get a usable medium.

As far as ordering from the US warehouse, those items have 9001 in front of the sku.


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

yomattyo said:


> another question! in ordering the torches or the headlamp style lights - anyone know how to ensure if you're ordering from the new US warehouse vs the standard DX site? i didn't see a way to just search the US warehouse...


In the left column there is a US/UK warehouse link


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## smoovranger (Mar 22, 2010)

Ratt said:


> In the left column there is a US/UK warehouse link


And I was looking for batteries in the US warehouse yesterday and didn't find any. Plenty of torches but no 18650's.


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## Rock Climber (Jul 25, 2007)

Has anybody used either of these lights as a helmet light

T6 Water Resistant XML-T6 3-Mode 1200-Lumen White LED Bike Light with Battery Pack Set - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

FandyFire 2130 CREE XM-LT6 3-Mode 900-Lumen White LED Flashlight w/ Strap (1 x 17670 / 1 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

I've got the tr-801 I use as my helmet spot and it's been great, just looking for a little more light. Are the lights I linked more of a spot or a flood?


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## dogstar (Dec 16, 2005)

Rock Climber said:


> Has anybody used either of these lights as a helmet light
> 
> T6 Water Resistant XML-T6 3-Mode 1200-Lumen White LED Bike Light with Battery Pack Set - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
> 
> ...


I'm in the same boat. Been rocking and loving the TR-801 for at least two years now. Actually, 3, I think. There's got to be something with double the brightness for same run time and same price these days. Yes?


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## s.berg (Apr 1, 2011)

Just ordered one of these: UltraFire WF-501B SSC-P7-CSXO 3-Mode 900-Lumen Memory LED Flashlight with Strap (1*18650/1*17670) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

Are regular AA rechargables (ex: sanyo eneloops, energizers etc..) ok to use in these? Or do 18650's have to be used?
I was going to pick up these: TrustFire Protected 18650 Lithium Battery (2500mAh 2-Pack Blue) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme in addition to my eneloops


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## s.berg (Apr 1, 2011)

found my answer. 18650's are much bigger than AA's.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Rock Climber said:


> Has anybody used either of these lights as a helmet light
> 
> T6 Water Resistant XML-T6 3-Mode 1200-Lumen White LED Bike Light with Battery Pack Set - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


Check out the thread titled "New bike lights on DX".


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

fightnut said:


> Just because I like the short length and lighter weight, I went ahead and ordered one of these today, with these batteries.
> 
> I'll be interested to see how bright it is, and what the run time is like when I get it.
> 
> ...


Ok, mine came in and my question has been answered..........really short run time! 
I barely got 15 minutes out of a battery. On the bright side (literally) it is really bright! Impressive to see that much light come from such a small torch, but not at all use-able as a bike light because of the short run time. Which is really to bad, because it has a great beam for a bike light, nice mix of throw and flood.


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## shutterbug67 (May 16, 2007)

Trying to find some 18650 batteries in the US that are descent... Any sources on ebay? I don't mind paying a little extra, but cannot wait for DealExtremes. Any help would be greatly appreciated




Any thoughts guys on the XML torches? something that might be adequate to run and medium mode and get longer run time? Want something that will give me a 1.5 - 2 hour runtime... something small like the older TR-501 torch


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

I found myself in a pinch a week before the Burn24 as I could not find two of my 18650's that I needed for my helmet torch. Ordered from batteryjunction.com with 2-3 day shipping. ~$11 for each battery and ~7 for shipping (ouch!), but they did throw in a bright LED keychain. 

On a side note, when I arrived at the race, I found my two batteries rolled up in the tent with my TR-801 light.


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## Nealy (Oct 6, 2011)

shutterbug67 said:


> Any thoughts guys on the XML torches? something that might be adequate to run and medium mode and get longer run time? Want something that will give me a 1.5 - 2 hour runtime... something small like the older TR-501 torch


I've just got an Ultrafire 501B XM-LT6 5 mode 510-lumen torch bought with these Trustfire True 2400mah batteries, this handlebar torch mount and this charger. The batteries stayed cool while they were charging and were still working at the end of a 45 minute ride on full power. The mount seems well made, is very small and looks like it will be plenty sturdy although I may need to superglue the halves together where they swivel as it's not very stable.

I'm really impressed with the torch though which is the most important thing. It appears to be pretty indestructible and the internals look decent to me, I did have to tighten the disc holding the end cap switch in place but that is easy enough. There was a small amount of grease on the threads which I added to although I got a bit carried away and had to wipe some off as it was breaking the circuit through the torch body! I also put some heat sink paste on the thread between the LED pill and reflector and wrapped a strip of aluminium foil around these so it makes proper contact with the body of the torch to dissipate the heat which it seems to be doing very well! I gets too hot to hold with bare hands on full power but is fine on the bike with air passing over it.

Anyways here is the torch and mount...minus bike.










To give an idea of how effective it is here is a shot of an unlit road near where I live using manual settings on my camera for consistency.










And the same shot with the torch on high power










As you can see it was chucking it down so I didn't do comparison shots with the torch on medium (30%) power or low (2%) power but it's bright enough on medium for road and medium pace off road riding and low is fine for a "to be seen" light.


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## LiveFreeThenDie (Mar 21, 2010)

The 50[1234] are larger form factor than I like for helmet. I finally decided on a replacement for my Trustfire 801: Uniquefire 2100 t6 1mode. OK, it's manafont.com and not DX. But this light got good reviews on budgetlightforum.com and seems to put out 500 lumens. I'll try out my new KD C8 tomorrow. It buzzes :-/


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## 'BentRyder (Sep 17, 2011)

The only thing I don't like about the 501B and the 502B are the switches. They are pretty weak for the higher power P60 modules. The 503 and 504B are much more robust.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

'BentRyder said:


> The only thing I don't like about the 501B and the 502B are the switches. They are pretty weak for the higher power P60 modules. The 503 and 504B are much more robust.


I've been using pretty much the same set-up as Nealy for some time although I use mine on the helmet. It provides a really nice output if I do say so and works great on the bars as well.

Yeah I'm sure the switches are a weak point with these torch hosts but at least they are cheap. With that said I've only had one go up. Since then the newer ones ( the entire end-cap ) looks like they are made a little better than the older ones.


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## dogstar (Dec 16, 2005)

LiveFreeThenDie said:


> The 50[1234] are larger form factor than I like for helmet. I finally decided on a replacement for my Trustfire 801: Uniquefire 2100 t6 1mode. OK, it's manafont.com and not DX. But this light got good reviews on budgetlightforum.com and seems to put out 500 lumens. I'll try out my new KD C8 tomorrow. It buzzes :-/


Let me know about the TR801 replacement. I keep getting close to pulling the trigger and then decide to wait. I gotta hurry up because my eyes aren't getting any better and this light is going to qualify for social security pretty soon!


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

Nealy,

Would you mind posting a pic of the aluminum foil wrap step? I got what I think is basically the same torch from Kaidomain ( 501b host, xml drop-in) I basically did the same thing, but wasn't convinced my foil wrap was that great. 

I also got the KD C8 Torch mentioned in this thread, not sure I got a good one tho' because the brightness difference between the 2 is very small to my eye. ( I don't have a multimeter to test draw ...although I may track one down because I'm curious ) If I read these forums correctly, its always a crap shoot, you might get one driver or you might get another when you buy a torch from China!

Still, for $65 for 2 torches, 2 batteries, a charger and a bar mount ... I'm not going to complain. Its all as bright as the NightRider HID it replaced, and it ways like 5 pounds less. ( The 501b torch with battery is lighter than the NR light head alone! )


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

Just to update some more on the Kaidomain products. Got a ride in last night and was able to compare to my friends MagicShine (p7) and Exposure Joystick.

So I got the highly recommended KD C8 torch (  link  ) as well as the smaller 501B XML U2 bin torch: ( link)

Seems to me the KD C8 torch is putting out as much light as others were seeing a few months ago. Definitely not as bright as the MS P7. Also seems to have a very strong hot spot and not enough spill ( for my tastes ). [[ but really, I don't have any measurements here ...so maybe i just had expectations that were too high! ]]

The 501B, on the other hand is about what I expected. I figured it would be under-driven but the given the smaller body, that's fine. Still a bit of a tight beam, but pretty happy for my helmet.

Both were way brighter than the Exposure Joystick, although I probably have shorter run times.

I take it that the KD C8 torch isn't really a "drop-in" type host. I can see how I would take it apart, but the pills are not a standard item. (any input there appreciated)

I'll probably look at trying to widen out the beam a bit ( scotch tape on lens ? ) to see if that helps.

thanks to everyone (Cat, Fight, terratec, colleen among others) for all the great info in this thread. my original post/question was back in 2010 when P7s were all the rage and XPG R5s were still pretty "hot" ...been following it ever since, and finally pulled the trigger.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

slcpunk said:


> Sems to me the KD C8 torch is putting out as much light as others were seeing a few months ago. Definitely not as bright as the MS P7.
> 
> I'll probably look at trying to widen out the beam a bit ( scotch tape on lens ? ) to see if that helps.


I'm really surprised that the KD C8 is less bright then the MS P7! I was going to buy one too, guess I'll pass.

As far as spreading out the hotspot, I've tried the Scotch tape (the frosted kind) and didn't like it, it really reduced the overall output of light. I prefer Press-N-Seal cling wrap. Doesn't reduce the output quite as much and does a decent job of spreading the beam.

Or if you can get your hands on a textured (OP) reflector that will fit. Doesn't even have to be an exact fit.


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## Nealy (Oct 6, 2011)

slcpunk said:


> Nealy,
> 
> Would you mind posting a pic of the aluminum foil wrap step? I got what I think is basically the same torch from Kaidomain ( 501b host, xml drop-in) I basically did the same thing, but wasn't convinced my foil wrap was that great.


You ask, you get  Actually it was a good excuse to re-do the foil on my torch as although it was making good contact with the torch head it was a bit tatty after stripping the torch down a few too many times.

This is the drop in placed over a single layer of aluminium foil cut into a 1.5cm wide strip, I've also thinly smeared a couple of lines of thermal paste to aid with the heat transfer but it also keeps the foild stuck in place which is handy.










This is the drop in wrapped in one layer of aluminium foil, as the foil I've got is cheap and thin I had to wrap it in 3 layers to get it too tight to fit and then remove some foil bit by bit until the drop in is a snug fit when pushed into the torch head.










I've given the torch (501B XML-T6) plenty of use during the month I've had it and I'm more than happy with it so will be getting a couple more for the bars and helmet. I'm finding the middle power setting is plenty bright enough for most situations which really helps with run times and the extra torches I'm getting are to spread the light rather than increase the brightness in one spot.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

slcpunk said:


> Just to update some more on the Kaidomain products. Got a ride in last night and was able to compare to my friends MagicShine (p7) and Exposure Joystick.
> 
> So I got the highly recommended KD C8 torch (  link  ) as well as the smaller 501B XML U2 bin torch: ( link)
> 
> ...


The KD C8 torch should blow the MS P7 away unless you have a MS using a D-bin P-7. It might be possible though that when doing the comparisons you inadvertently switch it to medium mode. 

Another thing you can do to increase brightness is to clean all the threads with metal cleaner. You will be surprised how brighter the torch will be. With all conditions optimal your C8 should be drawing about 1600ma at the end cap on high. The C8 is not a good torch for the bars ( IMO ) as it provides a very "spot" type beam pattern. It would work great on the helmet but it is a tad big and heavy. I suggest a SF-15 for the bars ( D-bin P-7 ). The SF-15 has a very nice wider beam pattern

slcpunk, do you have a Multi-meter for doing current measurements? I was wondering how much current your 501B is drawing on high. (??)


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

Sweet - thanks! I did about the same. Maybe I'll add some arctic silver in there too. ( I added some to the threads of the drop-in, but not the foil ) Also, I tried to fold the foil first, I think your method looks better.

However, I did think the biggest gap was sort of in the transition between the cylinder part of the drop-in and where it flares out for the reflector. Seems like there will be an air gap in there that space no matter what that would be hard to fill w/out some sort of moldable/formable substance...

I have to agree with you, though, generally, for $15 ... pretty happy with this little torch. Mounted to my helmet, I barely notice it. ( weight with battery was 132grams! )

thanks again


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> The KD C8 torch should blow the MS P7 away unless you have a MS using a D-bin P-7. It might be possible though that when doing the comparisons you inadvertently switch it to medium mode.
> 
> Another thing you can do to increase brightness is to clean all the threads with metal cleaner. You will be surprised how brighter the torch will be. With all conditions optimal your C8 should be drawing about 1600ma at the end cap on high. The C8 is not a good torch for the bars ( IMO ) as it provides a very "spot" type beam pattern. It would work great on the helmet but it is a tad big and heavy. I suggest a SF-15 for the bars ( D-bin P-7 ). The SF-15 has a very nice wider beam pattern
> 
> slcpunk, do you have a Multi-meter for doing current measurements? I was wondering how much current your 501B is drawing on high. (??)


I don't but I will get one and find out, because I'm dying to know. ( also want to see what the C8 is doing -- as it definitely was not keeping up with the MS, don't know what bin the MS was, its pretty old but it came from GeoMan )

I will clean the threads, they definitely had metal shavings in them....I wiped them out with a cloth. What is "metal cleaner" ( iso-propyl alcohol? ) what is the balance between lubricating threads and clean threads?

thanks for the input. I do agree with you - too much spot for bars - but too big for helmet. I guess I should have got the SF-15 which you recommended last year! ( I was just convinced the XML would be better ... bad boy )

Oh, while I have your ear - are there any drop in replacements for the C8 body? I didn't really think so, but figured I would double check with the experts.


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## Nealy (Oct 6, 2011)

slcpunk said:


> Sweet - thanks! I did about the same. Maybe I'll add some arctic silver in there too. ( I added some to the threads of the drop-in, but not the foil ) Also, I tried to fold the foil first, I think your method looks better.
> 
> However, I did think the biggest gap was sort of in the transition between the cylinder part of the drop-in and where it flares out for the reflector. Seems like there will be an air gap in there that space no matter what that would be hard to fill w/out some sort of moldable/formable substance...
> 
> ...


My first attempt with the foil was to fold it and cover the flared part of the reflector but the foil ripped at the edges and I don't think it was thick enough to make contact with the torch body on the flared bit anyway. It seems to be dissipating the heat pretty quick now but filling that gap wouldn't be a bad idea.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

slcpunk said:


> I will clean the threads, they definitely had metal shavings in them....I wiped them out with a cloth. What is "metal cleaner" ( iso-propyl alcohol? ) what is the balance between lubricating threads and clean threads?
> 
> thanks for the input. I do agree with you - too much spot for bars - but too big for helmet. I guess I should have got the SF-15 which you recommended last year! ( I was just convinced the XML would be better ... bad boy )
> 
> Oh, while I have your ear - are there any drop in replacements for the C8 body? I didn't really think so, but figured I would double check with the experts.


I suppose alcohol will work in a pinch. The electronic stores sell a product for removing oxidation but I forget the brand names. I simply use Aluminum wheel cleaner, available at any auto parts store. Since I already use the stuff on my car wheels I was all set to go. :thumbsup: Anyway, the stuff works great. You should of seen the black stuff that came off of my threads. Now they are nice and shiny. Having a small wire brush to get in the gaps helps as well however I just use cue-tips ( cotton swabs ). Option II is to buy a wide pencil eraser. These work really great for the quick touch up on the threads or other electrical contact surfaces.

Drop ins for the C8?...:skep:...I think you mean replacement screw-in *pill ( which is what it uses ) ( * the pill is the small screw in module that holds the driver and has the LED mounted on top ) There probably is but I don't know who would sell them. The C8 is a common torch host used for lots of different emitter set-ups. You might pose your question on CPF. Maybe they can help you over there.

*slcpunk*, there is another version of the XML C8 sold by Manafont ( see review )
The reviewer claims to get 3.8A from his on high. That has to be wrong though. The XML isn't designed to driven at that level. Anyway if you read the review he only says it is a little brighter than other torches he has which doesn't seem right. ( * Ah, I just checked their website and the C8 they have is listed at 1.5A. The reviewer must not know what he's doing.. )

Anyway, I retested mine. I get about 1.7A ( 1700ma ) on high. Maybe a tinge more with fresh battery. Digital multimeters are not that expensive. I think I paid about $15 for mine at Wal-Mart.


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## anekin007 (May 23, 2011)

I keep forgetting to make a short review of my KD C8 XML T6 torch. Overall I'm impressed. I use it once in awhile but it's now just a backup light or lender to other riders. It is very bright and I find it to be a better beam and spill than a niterider minewt 600. It looks slightly brighter than the Gemini Xera due to the torch having a more condense spotlight. Running time for the torch also impressed me. I was able to get 1:25-1:30hr on high. This would have been a perfect helmet light but it's a little heavy for me so I just mount it on the bar. For the torch with the battery it weighs in at 203g not including the mount. For the price you can't beat it. $43 total for a torch, 2 batteries, and charger. 

These are the items I ordered through kaidomain.com and it took 4 weeks to receive them from the date I ordered. 

S009844	KD C8 CREE XML T6 1000 Lumen 5-Mode LED Flashlight (1*18650)	$25.86
S008030	UltraFire XSL 18650 2600mAh 3.7V	$11.58
S009801	18650 Battery Charger	$6.14


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

Nealy/Cat-man-do

thanks for all the info. I'll try cleaning the threads (although they look pretty shiny - what I noticed more was metal shavings )

i'm betting its all working about right - just too much spot, as I could have determined by slightly more careful reading of all the available info. At some point I'll probably just look for a floodier torch to add to the collection. 

thanks again


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

slcpunk said:


> Nealy/Cat-man-do
> 
> thanks for all the info. I'll try cleaning the threads (although they look pretty shiny - what I noticed more was metal shavings )
> 
> ...


Your welcome....Shiny or not, when you use metal cleaner you will be surprised at the black stuff that comes off those shiny threads. :thumbsup:

* NEW SUBJECT...below...
*
I just finished placing my Christmas/fall order. I ordered some cool stuff from D/X and some nice stuff from Manafont. I've not ordered from Manafont before but the web site looks nice and has a nice array of torches and other torch related stuff that the other companies don't carry.

Manafont had a nice 3-mode ( no flash modes ) T6 XM-L torch that I couldn't pass up as well as a 3-mode ( no flash modes ) T6 XM-L drop-in for my other torch. I can't wait to see how bright they are. It will be nice not to have to deal with the strobe modes of the 5-modes.

D/X had some interesting goodies as well. I ordered one of their wheel led set-ups just for fun. The You-tube video looked interesting and since it was no more than $4 I thought I'd see how it works. D/X also had a XP-C 5-mode RED led drop-in that I just couldn't pass up. Can't wait till the stuff gets here.

Oh, and for those who haven't figured it out yet....If you want your orders from China before Christmas...NOW...is the time to place the orders. If you wait too long they run out of stuff and that means delays. Get it while the stuff can be got! :thumbsup:


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Manafont had a nice 3-mode ( no flash modes ) T6 XM-L torch that I couldn't pass up as well as a 3-mode ( no flash modes ) T6 XM-L drop-in for my other torch. I can't wait to see how bright they are. It will be nice not to have to deal with the strobe modes of the 5-modes.
> 
> D/X had some interesting goodies as well. I ordered one of their wheel led set-ups just for fun. The You-tube video looked interesting and since it was no more than $4 I thought I'd see how it works. D/X also had a XP-C 5-mode RED led drop-in that I just couldn't pass up. Can't wait till the stuff gets here.


No links to the new goodies? You're fired!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

fightnut said:


> No links to the new goodies? You're fired!


Oh all right already!  You win, links posted below....

From my previous post:



> ...Manafont had a nice 3-mode ( no flash modes ) T6 XM-L torch that I couldn't pass up as well as a 3-mode ( no flash modes ) T6 XM-L drop-in for my other torch. I can't wait to see how bright they are. It will be nice not to have to deal with the strobe modes of the 5-modes.
> 
> D/X had some interesting goodies as well. I ordered one of their wheel led set-ups just for fun. The You-tube video looked interesting and since it was no more than $4 I thought I'd see how it works. D/X also had a XP-C 5-mode RED led drop-in that I just couldn't pass up. Can't wait till the stuff gets here.


...So there....do I get my job back? :ihih:


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## p_cycle (Jul 22, 2006)

you got this close to getting sacked.
the 5 mode red light saved your ass (pun intended)


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Manafont had a nice 3-mode ( no flash modes ) T6 XM-L torch that I couldn't pass up as well as a 3-mode ( no flash modes )


I have this Manafont torch on my wish list. Hope to add it to my collection soon.

By the way, you got your job back :thumbsup:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

fightnut said:


> I have this Manafont torch on my wish list. Hope to add it to my collection soon.
> 
> By the way, you got your job back :thumbsup:


Nice pick. For a single mode it should work real well. I have a three mode version of the torch you picked. These are about as small as 18650 single cell torches get. Mine gets regular use as back up on the bars of the F/S bike. The reviews on the torch you bought are listing it as 500lm so that might mean that it's not fully driven. Still as a single mode a 500lm output on an XM-L should last maybe 2hrs with one cell. Hard to know for sure unless they list the current draw ( which Manafont seldom does ). I wish more of the reviewers listed the current draws. That would be most helpful in helping you decide which ones give you the output that you want.

I also ordered this little gem for back-up OTB ( off the bike ) duties. I already have one that that is similar but this one has mult-modes and using an XP-G. In a pinch could be used as a "get out of the woods " emergency back up. I bought this because I like something that is not too big and not too small. No sharp edges to poke or rip clothing...And, nice to have a torch that runs off a single AA or 14500 li-ion rechargeable.
Should make the perfect pocket torch.

You know the guys I work with just shake their heads when I tell them that I pay $20-$40 for a flashlight. They marvel at how bright they are but they think it is WAY too much money. :lol: If they only knew how great a deal these things really are. :thumbsup:


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> Your welcome....Shiny or not, when you use metal cleaner you will be surprised at the black stuff that comes off those shiny threads. :thumbsup:
> 
> * NEW SUBJECT...below...
> *
> ...


I like that manafort site too. think I'll give them a try. does this combination look good? I don't know anything about batteries & chargers. don't want to end up with junk. thanks in advance!

I picked this light: Manafont.com | $22.94 Uniquefire UF-2100 T6 1-Mode Memory LED Flashlight (18650)
this charger: Manafont.com | $8.27 XTAR - MP1 USB to 3.7V Li-ion Battery Charger For 14650/17670/18650/18700
and these batteries: Manafont.com | $14.12 UltraFire BRC 18650 3.7V 3000MAH Rechargeable Batteries - Protected (Pair pack)

by the way...a little off topic but you seem to buy a lot of lights, what do you do with all of them (if you don't mind me asking)?


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## LiveFreeThenDie (Mar 21, 2010)

Good choice, RTM. Except those batteries are overrated. Buy the 2400mAh Trustfire flames. I am waiting for delivery of the Ultrafire 2100. It's a replacement for the Trustfire 801 that I use on my helmet. There are only three or four torches that have similar geometry (<= 4.5" long, 1" diameter) that I consider good choices for helmet. I used a coin to choose 

I received the KD C8 flashlight. It's very bright. But it changes modes while riding and I haven't figured out how to stop it from changing modes. Turning it into single mode would be OK too. My P7 light looks dim by comparison.  I'd say the C8 on medium is about the same as the P7 on bright.

I got a nice $ bonus at work and am looking at spending it on a real bike light for commuting. I don't know how well the flashlights will do in wet weather. The Dinotte XM-L looks like a really bright light and has good price/performance ratio. Unfortunately, though, it has a power pack and isn't a single unit. If the MiNewt was 800 lumens, I'd be all over it.

I did splurge and buy a couple of Callie's Kustom 3100s. They have good reviews on budgelightforums.com.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

RTM said:


> I like that manafort site too. think I'll give them a try.
> .....by the way...a little off topic but you seem to buy a lot of lights, what do you do with all of them (if you don't mind me asking)?


Actually I'm surprised that more people don't ask that question but it has been asked of me before. When I see something that I think is better that what I'm currently using I buy it if the price is within reason. Sometimes I buy stuff that turns out not to be what I expected so I continue searching till I find the right stuff. I also have multi-uses for torches. They make great back-up bike lights, camp lights, emergency power outages lights..etc... depending on beam pattern, brightness, size and available modes. I also use torches at work for various needs ( walking in dark places, finding addresses on dark buildings and general all-around outdoor use. I have torches that fit the bill for almost any situation but I still need more....

On my mountain bike I use a XML 3-mode along side my bar lamp in case I need back-up. On some shorter night bike rides ( half day/ half night ) I use only torches. I have standard bike lights for my helmet as well but most of the time I use an XM-L drop-in torch ( XPE drop-in for road ) on the helmet instead because they are so light-weight. Now that Daylight savings time is about over I'll be using my standard bike lights more often.
Oh yeah, almost forgot. I do give some away if I find I have no need for them.

Posted by *LiveFreeThanDie*:



> ....I received the KD C8 flashlight. It's very bright. But it changes modes while riding and I haven't figured out how to stop it from changing modes.


LFTD, The pill inside the torch head could be loose. The C8 is designed so it can be dismantled. The end cap comes off of course, then then the battery tubes unscrews from the light head. . The front comes off and the reflector comes out. The emitter is mounted on a screw in module usually referred to as "a pill". You can unscrew it and it will come out. ( don't touch the emitter mounting unless you know what you're doing ). Inside the end cap there is a small ring with two small holes in it. Make sure it is tight ( bend a paper clip if you have nothing else that will work )

Now if the pill was loose, that would cause the light to change mods intermittently. With everything nice and tight you should be fine. I tighten mine because it was loose but I never had a problem....then again I never used it on the bike. My C8 is delegated to finding dark address signs at a distance when working. Anyway I hope my suggestions help.


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## Nealy (Oct 6, 2011)

I've just ordered another 501B XML-T6 torch from DX, I'd have ordered it from Manafont but I want it to match my existing torch from DX which has an orange peel reflector. I'd like a 3 mode torch rather than 5 mode but if the OCD in me won't allow different reflectors I definitely can't have different torch bodies! I've also ordered this handlebar mount albeit from DX and this XTAR - WP2 II charger but from an ebay seller. I already have a charger but after reading reviews on budgetlightforums the XTAR one sounds very good and the one I have sounds like it could overcharge and damage cells. To go with the second torch I've order some more cells, I've already got a pair of 2400mAh Trustfire Flame's which I'm happy with but this time I've gone for a pair of Xtar 2600mAh cells through a UK ebay seller which use Sanyo cells and a protection circuit. As you can see from the discharge graphs on this page the stated capacity is pretty accurate but more importantly they maintain a higher voltage during discharge.

*EDIT:*

I've just come across this which should be useful in working out the real lumens you get from a XM-L emitter for a given current draw, basically anything over 1000lm is B.S.

Results: Testing XM-L, MC-E, and SST-50 emitters up to (and over) 5 amps.










_*Conclusion:*

Well now...isn't that interesting. Only a 200L difference between an XM-L at 2.4a and 5a! Lumens really start to plateau @3.2amps, then peak at 4.4a before decreasing slightly. Here's some final thoughts on all this:

* I went back and rechecked the first emitter, and still got the same results which tells me the emitter suffered no undue stress from this test even after repeatedly going to 5 amps. Having said that, the heatsinking used in this test is unlike anything that would be found in a torch. Mild to severe emitter damage may result with typical flashlight heatsinking (much like arenat experienced).

* Considering I only saw @1 degree F temp change at 2mm below the emitter, I see no other lumen gains to be made with the XM-L T6. Water cooling wouldn't gain anything, and a peltier cooler...well...I think Man has a better chance of spontaneously mutating owl eyes on his arse before a peltier would be in any way shape or form practical for a flashlight.

*As much as some may want it or claim it, the T6 just isn't a >1000L emitter. I've heard some claims of 1200-1500L...which from my results is just pure B.S.

* The lumen difference for any torch or drop-in much above 3a woud be negligable outside a I.S. Any perceived difference would be almost entirely based on the reflector/lens combo. This is going to be my new wish from manufacturers...."Better xm-l reflectors, not more amps!"

* I suggest everyone to draw there own conclusions from this data. Again, please remember the graph is non-linear before 2.8 amps. 
_


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## LiveFreeThenDie (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks Cat-man.

Indeed the pill was loose. I found troubleshooting guide with pics at CPF. Now I need a thicker oring since the lens is now rattling. No rain here in CA so I'll be able to try it out on my ride home.

I too have a collection of about 10 cheap flashlights of various types. Mostly 18650 and AA. I find use for them around the house. I keep one in the night stand. I use them when hunting in the garage or going outside at night. I haven't added anything to my collection in a long while. But I've seen a couple of people on CPFM who buy and sell lights like there is no tomorrow.

If I get two years use out of $75 worth of flashlights and batteries for my commute, I figure I'm ahead of the game. I held off on XM-L upgrade because some of the early lights had reviews that said you could not run the lights on high for more than 10 minutes because they got too hot. And they drew 5 amps. I really do want to get two 40 minute rides home on a single charge. In two years, it will be time to upgrade again.... if I am still riding/commuting.


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

Does anyone have experience with the Ultrafire 501b pressure switch?

Linky.

I had a tailcap switch fizzle out on one of my UF 501bs and I thought this could work as a more convenient switch for helmet use. Basically I'd run the switch down to my camelback strap.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

Would one of the t6 xml lights from DX be sufficient for pitch black riding? Like this one
T6 XML-T6 3-Mode 1200-Lumen White LED Bike Light with Battery Pack Set - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

*MS clone*



kikoraa said:


> Would one of the t6 xml lights from DX be sufficient for pitch black riding? Like this one
> T6 XML-T6 3-Mode 1200-Lumen White LED Bike Light with Battery Pack Set - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


All you need to know here.
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/new-bike-lights-dx-727144.html

Winter will be half over by the time you get it.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

random walk said:


> *Does anyone have experience with the Ultrafire 501b pressure switch?*
> 
> Linky.
> 
> I had a tailcap switch fizzle out on one of my UF 501bs and I thought this could work as a more convenient switch for helmet use. Basically I'd run the switch down to my camelback strap.


Random, a good question. I've never owned one of the remote pressure switches. I've often wondered just how well they would work. They might make for a nice cheap bar mounted ( or helmet mounted ) remote system. That's as long as you can deal with the curly-Q wire they come with.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

random walk said:


> Does anyone have experience with the Ultrafire 501b pressure switch?
> 
> Linky.
> 
> I had a tailcap switch fizzle out on one of my UF 501bs and I thought this could work as a more convenient switch for helmet use. Basically I'd run the switch down to my camelback strap.


I could be wrong, but I think the way these work, is it requires you to be applying pressure (hence the "pressure switch" name) to the switch for it to be ON.

Generally used for lights on guns, when you wrap your hand around the handle to point the weapon, the pressure turns the light on. Release your grip, the light goes off.


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> Random, a good question. I've never owned one of the remote pressure switches. I've often wondered just how well they would work. They might make for a nice cheap bar mounted ( or helmet mounted ) remote system. That's as long as you can deal with the curly-Q wire they come with.





fightnut said:


> I could be wrong, but I think the way these work, is it requires you to be applying pressure (hence the "pressure switch" name) to the switch for it to be ON.
> 
> Generally used for lights on guns, when you wrap your hand around the handle to point the weapon, the pressure turns the light on. Release your grip, the light goes off.


Thanks for the responses.

I hadn't thought of the constant pressure aspect of the switch. Ugh. I wonder if you could cut off the pressure switch and wire a reverse-clicky in its place?


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## karltimber (Sep 24, 2011)

*To Cat-man-do*

IMHO - For a helmet torch, I have been using the SkyRay Cree XPE.



Cat-man-do said:


> To *IMHO* above ^^^..... Since you're using a drop-in torch you just might want to try out the K/D XM-L T-6 drop-in (KD - 11096) I mentioned a couple of posts back. I have a XP-E 5-mode drop-in as well and while it does have excellent throw it is a more narrow beam pattern. For the $15 it's worth giving the XM-L a try. I don't think you will be disappointed.
> 
> :


Hi, you posted this a while back (post 503) - and I got the skyray from dx and the drop-in you listed from KD and using it as a helmet torch and it's great. Now I want another one.
But the Skyray from DX is not listed anymore and the KD website will not open your link and not sure whats what when looking at 20+ drop-in's :madman:

so - if you have a min - can you find a similar drop-in to the one above and an appropriate torch that will take it - as the combo I have now with 1 mode is just super. 1 mode too would be great.

thanks and appreciate it.

Karl.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

karltimber said:


> IMHO - For a helmet torch, I have been using the SkyRay Cree XPE.
> 
> Hi, you posted this a while back (post 503) - and I got the skyray from dx and the drop-in you listed from KD and using it as a helmet torch and it's great. Now I want another one.
> But the Skyray from DX is not listed anymore and the KD website will not open your link and not sure whats what when looking at 20+ drop-in's :madman:
> ...


Karl, I know I've seen the Skyray torches sold elsewhere. I'll get back to you on that. The highly rated K/D XML T-6 5-mode drop-in should still be sold. However see if you can wait a bit. I have a new order coming in hopefully some time this week. With that order is a new XM-L T-6 3-mode drop-in ( with no flash modes ). Can't wait to see how it compares to the K/D 5-mode. Got my first order last night, unfortunately just a partial order...none of the good stuff. Just remember, Tis the season for back orders...


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

How do you guys know if your pill or switch is dead? Also, might I need to do the foil trick? My Kaidomain P60 XML died while I was using it and I don't know why.


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

gticlay said:


> How do you guys know if your pill or switch is dead? Also, might I need to do the foil trick? My Kaidomain P60 XML died while I was using it and I don't know why.


Bypass the switch then see if it works.

The foil can't hurt. I did some thermal imaging on my MC-E torches before/after wrapping with heavy foil and was very happy with the results. http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...yle-torch-better-heat-dissipation-674339.html

(I had a thread on candlepowerforums too, but it appears to be gone and my account deleted.)


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

gticlay said:


> How do you guys know if your pill or switch is dead? Also, might I need to do the foil trick? My Kaidomain P60 XML died while I was using it and I don't know why.


Stuff happens. A couple nights ago I was carrying mine around in my pocket with me at work and somehow it managed to get turned on. When I finally noticed it ( yes it got warm ) I pulled it out and boy was it hot. Not good. Luckily it still works fine. Excess heat can kill an LED quite quickly though. One drop-in I owned died because I used a different reflector and it really didn't seat ( on the threads ) snugly enough to sink the heat properly. Stuff happens. If you *pot a drop-in ( *wrap it with metal tape or foil ) you might have to check it every once in while to make sure it's still nice an snug.

Yes, to check the switch: remove the end cap ( switch ). Take a screw driver and push the battery into the torch. Then lean the screw driver so it touches the side of the torch. If the torch lights then something was wrong with the switch. Another way to test the switch is with an Ohm meter. Touch one of the leads to the center spring and the other to the threads. If current is going through the switch the meter will show zero Ohms ( that means it works ). If no current passes through ( infinite resistance ) either the switch is in off mode or the switch is burnt out. Some switches are easy to replace and some aren't. Sometimes you can buy replacement end caps, depends on what torch host you have.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Looks like the pill is toast. So, where's the cheapest pills around - maybe an MCE or another XML or even an XPG if it's real cheap. I'd hate to throw this one out but it seems like a whole new one is as cheap or close to the pill prices I saw last winter.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

The new XML 18650 torches on DX are the BOMB by the way. I'm using one on my helmet almost exclusively since my Magicshine battery $hit the bed. I'm going to order another for the bars for a backup or when I really need a lot of light.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Jim311 said:


> The new XML 18650 torches on DX are the BOMB by the way. I'm using one on my helmet almost exclusively since my Magicshine battery $hit the bed. I'm going to order another for the bars for a backup or when I really need a lot of light.


Which model, there are so many of them.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

gticlay said:


> Which model, there are so many of them.


Yes, that's the danger with buying torches. There are so many it is hard to chose. You really have to know what your looking for. Then again if you ask the right questions ( here ) the peeps might be able to dial you into something that might work for you.

Things you need to consider when shopping for torches:

1) Your proposed use: Bars or helmet, road or MTB or a little of everything
2) Beam pattern preference: tight beam thrower, flood beam , or intermediate mix.
3) Torch host type: screw in pill/emitter or P-60 drop-in
4) Choice of modes/menus or memory functions, emitter, battery type ( I will assume 18650 single cell Li-ion )
5) Basic host design: large head/reflector, medium head/reflector, no head/small reflector or flood to throw adjustable head. Type of switch: rear clicky, top switch, etc.
6) What mount you will need to use for the bars or the method you will use to mount it to your helmet.
7) Other accessories you will need....extra batteries, mounts, chargers

I hope all this helps. Yes, it's a lot to sort through. That's why it helps to know what you're looking for. If it makes you feel any better I didn't mention everything...just the basics.


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## Rock Climber (Jul 25, 2007)

*Light's too hot*

I just received my fandy fire 2130 last night and wow it's bright. It really puts my TR-801 to shame. It's also a great size for using on a helmet. I included a few pics to get an idea of size.

I bought this with the intent of running it on my helmet, but it gets really hot. I was just walking around the garage (unheated) with it last night for about 5 minutes and it got really warm. Should I worry about the heat? Is there a trick to making it cool better? Neither of my other two lights get anywhere near as hot as this one gets (tr-801 and sf-15)

It was under 40 degrees in my garage last night and it's almost always under 40 when I ride.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Rock Climber said:


> Is there a trick to making it cool better? Neither of my other two lights get anywhere near as hot as this one gets (tr-801 and sf-15)
> 
> It was under 40 degrees in my garage last night and it's almost always under 40 when I ride.


Even though the room was cool, the key is "moving air". Your new torch is drawing more power than the TR-801 so it will get warmer. It also has no pronounced head so like the tr801 not a lot of metal to aid in heat sinking. Should not be a problem as long as you are moving.


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## Rock Climber (Jul 25, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Should not be a problem as long as you are moving.


Thanks!

Since I have a ghetto set up where it sits directly on my helmet and on a rolled up tube to aim it, do I need to worry about melting anything?


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Rock Climber said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Since I have a ghetto set up where it sits directly on my helmet and on a rolled up tube to aim it, do I need to worry about melting anything?


I would lift it off the helmet an inch or so to allow air circulation and avoid direct contact with plastic. Hopefully one of the light masters can point you to a good aftermarket mount. A proper mount will improve the experience all the way around.


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

RTM said:


> A proper mount will improve the experience all the way around.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I have that helmet. The MS straps right on to the vent cross brace a little lower and foward of where your powerbar is now.



random walk said:


>


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Rock Climber said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Since I have a ghetto set up where it sits directly on my helmet and on a rolled up tube to aim it, do I need to worry about melting anything?


No, I wouldn't think so. Mine is mounted directly to the helmet as well. Mine is held down by a length of Velcro strapping. I also use a small amount of rubber tubing around the battery tube to give it more grip. When I first decided to do this I was worried that it might hamper cooling. The piece I use is only about an inch wide and placed mid-way on the torch. It really does help keep the torch from sliding and so far there have been no thermal issues.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yes, that's the danger with buying torches. There are so many it is hard to chose. You really have to know what your looking for. Then again if you ask the right questions ( here ) the peeps might be able to dial you into something that might work for you.
> 
> Things you need to consider when shopping for torches:
> 
> ...


I thought I wanted a P60 for the real small size so I bought the Kaidomain 501B XML. They seem to be inadequate for P7 and XML use to be honest (and future LED's IMO). My go-to light now is the bigger, heavier yet very small MTE SSC P7-C "Max 900 lumens" 18650 light. I seem some XML's in that body with a different name lasered on them. That body seems to have enough mass to disperse plenty of heat.

So I can order a new XML with the bigger body (is there a name for those - seems like a standard 'size'. Here is one but the reflector isn't OP like my P7 is: UltraFire TH-T60 HA-II XM-LT60 2-Mode 1000-Lumen White LED Flashlight with Strap (1 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

What is the best model like this one? Should I bother with a P60 pill at all? Maybe a single XPG P60 wouldn't burn out easily like my last one did. The body would get pretty hot so I know it was 'heat sinking' pretty well... hmmmmm.

Any suggestions?


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## LiveFreeThenDie (Mar 21, 2010)

The new hot torch seems to be the Kaidomain (KD) C8 5 mode for $25. I have one and love it. It's a bit larger than the P7, 1/2" longer and larger diameter head. But the beam pattern is superior to the P7. The XM-L has more throw, good spill, less flood. It's not wasting those lumens throwing light out to the side.

I'm sure Cat-man-do and others have mentioned this light in detail. Searching this forum should provide answers.


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## 'BentRyder (Sep 17, 2011)

I would give serious thought to the 504B instead. They have more robust switch but I'd upgrade that as well. Omton switches just don't hold up at 3 amps.

Have a look at Manafont for a 504B P60 host... Very nice solid light... and buy the KAN-28 switch for replacement. Then you can drop in whatever P60 you want and never worry about it again:

Manafont.com | $8.12 Ultrafire WF-50X B Flashlight Tube w/ Metal Bezel - Silver (No LED Emitter)
Manafont.com | $8.12 Ultrafire WF-50X B Flashlight Tube w/ Metal Bezel - Black (No LED Emitter)
Manafont.com | $5.99 UltraFire Replacemnet Tailcap Switch Component (5pcs/set)

I have the silver one and it is impressive. Replace the switch buy swapping out the switch on circuit board. Best P60 host I have.

Otherwise, a C8 body will deliver a hotter hotspot than any P60 just due to the reflector size. Manafont also has a great selection of C8 with an XM-L T6 emitter. The actual output current is somewhat of a crapshoot with any of these. Read the reviews and cross your fingers. You can always replace the driver if needed.
Manafont.com


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

LiveFreeThenDie said:


> The new hot torch seems to be the Kaidomain (KD) C8 5 mode for $25. I have one and love it. It's a bit larger than the P7, 1/2" longer and larger diameter head. But the beam pattern is superior to the P7. The XM-L has more throw, good spill, less flood. It's not wasting those lumens throwing light out to the side.
> 
> I'm sure Cat-man-do and others have mentioned this light in detail. Searching this forum should provide answers.


I wouldn't really want to go larger than the P7 that was hot last year to be honest.


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## 'BentRyder (Sep 17, 2011)

The XM-L is much more efficient than the P7. The XM-L is mch more suited to the single 18650 torches due to their lower Vf requirements. This means it will stay in regulation a lot longer than the older P7's ever could.


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## LiveFreeThenDie (Mar 21, 2010)

P7 were the hotness in summer 2009 when I purchased my first bike light.

Here is the KD C8 vs the MTE SF-15 (P7). I think the added brightness is worth the additional size. These are good *bar* lights, but are too large/heavy for helmet lights.

Sorry, the C8 is on the left, the SF-15 is on the right.


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## 'BentRyder (Sep 17, 2011)

I think 1 is a "C8" and the other is a "C2"... 44mm vs 40mm


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

LiveFreeThenDie said:


> P7 were the hotness in summer 2009 when I purchased my first bike light.
> 
> Here is the KD C8 vs the MTE SF-15 (P7). I think the added brightness is worth the additional size. These are good *bar* lights, but are too large/heavy for helmet lights.
> 
> Sorry, the C8 is on the left, the SF-15 is on the right.


Thanks for the pics. Yep, I'm looking at the MTE as the big end of what I'd want. I actually use mine mostly for walking the dogs :lol: The ones you see on DX that are a little smaller and nearly just a single outer diameter look the most like what I want so I may get one of those foil the b'tard up and try it out, maybe with the hazy glass to make it more floody.


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## 'BentRyder (Sep 17, 2011)

This one has a 40mm head. Its a V-Shark VS-X1. An under driven XM-L T6 which can easily be upgraded to 2.8 or even 3.15 amps. Less aggressive styling and agruably the best thrower in my collection.

Review: UltraOK Technologies V-SHARK VS-X1 XM-L 18650x1 | BudgetLightForum.com

V-SHARK CREE XML T6 LED 1000 Lumen 5-Modes Flashlight | eBay


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

'BentRyder said:


> This one has a 40mm head. Its a V-Shark VS-X1. An under driven XM-L T6 which can easily be upgraded to 2.8 or even 3.15 amps. Less aggressive styling and agruably the best thrower in my collection.
> 
> Review: UltraOK Technologies V-SHARK VS-X1 XM-L 18650x1 | BudgetLightForum.com
> 
> V-SHARK CREE XML T6 LED 1000 Lumen 5-Modes Flashlight | eBay


How do you upgrade it?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

gticlay said:


> How do you upgrade it?


That *is* the million dollar question. 

If you looked at the review you saw that the person reviewing the torch completely ( and I mean *completely* ) disassembled the torch, right down to the driver. If you have the skill and patience to do that and know where to buy drivers that are the right size...you can upgrade the driver. However, most people aren't willing to have to fiddle with a torch that much. That's why it helps to know what you are buying.

So far, not many of the XM-L torches I own have drivers putting out more than 1500ma. I've looked around on-line for replacement pills and they are hard to find but if you can find the drivers you can do your own. ( if you know what you're doing ). 

It sure would be nice if the sellers would list the amp draw on the ads but sometimes ( even when they do ) just like with the lumen claims they are often wrong.

Anyway, once you start down the "custom torch" road there will likely be "No going back".


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## 'BentRyder (Sep 17, 2011)

You hit the nail on the head, Cat. The XM-L came onto a market that just barely was able to pump out 1.2 amps into the previous generation lights. Manufacturers are just lego-ing the lights together to see what sells.

That was my review BTW. It really is fun to build exactly what you want. You can buy the 2.8 amp NANJG 105 driver in a lot of places if you really want to drive that XM-L fully. I have found that this is really not neccesary for most road riding situations. A 1.4A driver on an XM-L is still significant. For single 18650 flashlights, it is all a bit of math to compute runtime against true battery capacity. A really good battery pushing an XM-L at 1A will last right at 3 hours. You can do this with the 2.8 amp driver at the medium (30%) setting.

Yes, you need some basic soldering and hobby skills but its not rocket science. And as-is, even with the low current to the emitter, the V-Shark is a very nice light that will regulate well for a very decent runtime. But if you need a 900 lumen scorcher for about 45 minutes, it really is hard to know what to buy off the shelf that will really do this. Many will run right at 2 amps once the peak of the battery charge runs down.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

'BentRyder said:


> ... You can buy the 2.8 amp NANJG 105 driver in a lot of places if you really want to drive that XM-L fully. * I have found that this is really not neccesary for most road riding situations. A 1.4A driver on an XM-L is still significant.* For single 18650 flashlights, it is all a bit of math to compute runtime against true battery capacity. A really good battery pushing an XM-L at 1A will last right at 3 hours. You can do this with the 2.8 amp driver at the medium (30%) setting.
> ..... Many will run right at 2 amps once the peak of the battery charge runs down.


Just recently I purchased a couple new XML torches from _Manafont._ I figured they would be lower powered and they are. Surprisingly though the beam patterns are still very bright. Seeing this is the case, this just might be the better way to go for most people who want a long running light that is self-contained. Like you said, at 1A you are going to get longer run time ( coupled with a stable output ) which is a very good trade off when running off of just one 18650. A lot of what you get though still depends on the reflector and the resultant beam pattern. Yeah, you're right. It doesn't take a "rocket scientist" however it does take patience and the ability to juggle a bit....( this emitter, this bin, No ...this bin, this driver....no....that driver and this host...) You catch my drift...:ihih:
..

I do have a couple torches drawing over 2A but like you said, once the peak voltage is gone it doesn't take the driver long to drop out of regulation.


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## punkaccountant (Mar 23, 2009)

OK...I may be blasted for this post but I am looking for replacements for a couple P7 torches that I purchased from Deal Extreme a few year's ago. I started to read this thread and there were so many different names in just the last 2-3 pages that I am thoroughly confused at this point. I am looking for a good all-purpose torch that I could use on the bars of my bike, while camping, and while working outside at night. Basically the best combination of brightness and size. Can you give me a couple suggestions? Also, what battery do you recommend as well? Thank you!


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

punkaccountant said:


> OK...I may be blasted for this post but I am looking for replacements for a couple P7 torches that I purchased from Deal Extreme a few year's ago. I started to read this thread and there were so many different names in just the last 2-3 pages that I am thoroughly confused at this point. I am looking for a good all-purpose torch that I could use on the bars of my bike, while camping, and while working outside at night. Basically the best combination of brightness and size. Can you give me a couple suggestions? Also, what battery do you recommend as well? Thank you!


Find the cheapest XML torch you can, and buy the batteries with the flames on them. I'm pleased by that combo


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## Nealy (Oct 6, 2011)

punkaccountant said:


> OK...I may be blasted for this post but I am looking for replacements for a couple P7 torches that I purchased from Deal Extreme a few year's ago. I started to read this thread and there were so many different names in just the last 2-3 pages that I am thoroughly confused at this point. I am looking for a good all-purpose torch that I could use on the bars of my bike, while camping, and while working outside at night. Basically the best combination of brightness and size. Can you give me a couple suggestions? Also, what battery do you recommend as well? Thank you!


Deal Extreme are taking ages to deliver stuff at the moment so I'd order from Lightmalls or Manafont.

You might as well get a XML U2 LED as it's a bit more efficient than the XML T6 LED's therefore...

Ultrafire 501B $17.5 | Ultrafire 501B Cree XML U2 1300 Lumen 5-Mode LED Flashlight (1*18650) Worldwide Free Shipping!!!

Solarforce L2 (1 cell) $21 | Solarforce L2 Cree XM-L U2 1300 Lumen 5-Mode LED Flashlight Worldwide Free Shipping!!!

Solarforce L2 (2 cells) $26 | Solarforce L2 Cree XML-U2 5-Mode LED Flashlight ( 2*18650) Worldwide Free Shipping!!!

I've got the Trustfire Flame true 2400mAh cells and they're great ($12 - TrustFire Protected 18650 3.7V True 2400mAh Rechargeable Lithium Batteries (1 pair) Worldwide Free Shipping!!!) but I've also just got a pair of Xtar 2600mAh's that use Sanyo cells which can't be bettered really 2x XTAR 18700 2600mAh 3.7v SANYO Protected Battery Batteries - 18650/18500/17670 - Flashlights, Batteries and more - Quality China Goods

Chargers are really important as a rubbish one can wreck your batteries or worse (break, go bang, set on fire, open a black hole) so I've replaced my rubbish DX charger with a Xtar WP2 II, I'm really pleased with it and highly recommend it $22 | XTAR WP2


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

punkaccountant said:


> OK...I may be blasted for this post but I am looking for replacements for a couple P7 torches that I purchased from Deal Extreme a few year's ago. I started to read this thread and there were so many different names in just the last 2-3 pages that I am thoroughly confused at this point. I am looking for a good all-purpose torch that I could use on the bars of my bike, while camping, and while working outside at night. Basically the best combination of brightness and size. Can you give me a couple suggestions? Also, what battery do you recommend as well? Thank you!


From what you've said you would like ONE all-purpose torch. Personally I would recommend you use TWO, first because it really won't be that much more money and second because two is always better than one. 

For biking you want a nice compact XML torch. Preferably with three output modes. However if you want the flash modes you will want the five mode versions. For camping you want the same but with no sharp edges on the design. I say this because sharp edges make holes in pockets. Next, for camping it would be preferred if the torch can stand on the tail. Since most torches can't, you might have to search a while. You are best served buying something that will run off of one 18650 Li-ion rechargeable. That almost goes without saying but you did ask.

As I said before a second torch is a great idea. I highly recommend a nice compact pocket torch for all around/walking around use. Personally I like something that is small with no sharp edges ( as I said before ). The one I have uses the XP-G emitter and runs off of one AA battery. Uses either rechargeable AA's or non-rechargeables. Mine is silver in color so if I drop it I can see it. Output only 150 lumen but it is really bright and runs a long time. Fits nicely in the pocket and works great as an emergency bike light. Truly a must have item in my book.

Oh, you won't get blasted for asking questions. The torch market is a jungle. As such it helps to have some helpful guides. :thumbsup:

Anyway, I just ordered this torch myself>  Link  Somewhat more expensive than the average XM-L torch but it does look to cover your needs. On the link notice below is the silver AA torch I use if you are interested.

By the way I like that *Lightmalls* web site that *Nealy* provided. *Nice find Nealy! *I'll be checking that out tonight as it looks to have some great prices!. Wish this was posted last night because last night I just ordered more stuff from Manafont.


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## Nealy (Oct 6, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Anyway, I just ordered this torch myself>  Link  Somewhat more expensive than the average XM-L torch but it does look to cover your needs. On the link notice below is the silver AA torch I use if you are interested.
> 
> By the way I like that *Lightmalls* web site that *Nealy* provided. *Nice find Nealy! *I'll be checking that out tonight as it looks to have some great prices!. Wish this was posted last night because last night I just ordered more stuff from Manafont.


Nice diving torch :thumbsup: I must admit I'd like a better quality torch like that and I'd kill for 3 mode _without_ strobe or SOS!

There seem to be a few more HK etailers popping up to compete with DX which can only be a good thing, glad to help but sorry it wasn't sooner 

I've got my eye on a 3 x XLM-T6 torch (2 or 3 x 18650 cells) for around the same price as your diving torch. The tiny reflectors give loads of flood but it still has plenty of throw due to being stupid powerful  Big and heavy but it has got a screw in pill which should be better for heatsinking. Links...$51 | TrustFire Tr-3T6 Cree XM-L 3*T6 3800LM High Brightness Led Flashlight Worldwide Free Shipping!!! or Manafont.com | $55.8 TrustFire TR-3T6 Triple XM-L T6 5-Modes Memory LED Flashlight (3x18650)


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I just received my free MiniMaglite. Runs offa 2 AA's. Anyone know which of the conversion to LED kits is the best one to buy?


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## punkaccountant (Mar 23, 2009)

Nealy said:


> Deal Extreme are taking ages to deliver stuff at the moment so I'd order from Lightmalls or Manafont.
> 
> You might as well get a XML U2 LED as it's a bit more efficient than the XML T6 LED's therefore...
> 
> Thanks for the advice. Can you tell me the difference between a U2 LED and a T6? I notice most of the lights on these websites seem to be T6.


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## Nealy (Oct 6, 2011)

The T6 and U2 LED's are very similar, in fact they're visually identical so you won't know which one you've got just by looking at it. The U2 is about 10% more efficient so will be very slightly brighter for the same current draw, to be honest you'd probably struggle to tell them apart if you were comparing their beam shots so don't be put off getting a T6 LED if its a bit cheaper.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

punkaccountant said:


> Nealy said:
> 
> 
> > Deal Extreme are taking ages to deliver stuff at the moment so I'd order from Lightmalls or Manafont.
> ...


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## punkaccountant (Mar 23, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your responses. I'm going to try a couple of those light from Lightmalls that Nealy recommended.


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## Nealy (Oct 6, 2011)

Good point *Cat-man-do* about the driver current and the reflectors. It would be good if the retailers stated the currents for the different modes to give you an idea of the brightness (1.4A to 2.8A is ideal) but judging by reviews on DX there's no guarantee what driver will come with your torch, more than likely it's whatever they get from their supplier at the time. Saying that the two 501B's I've got have different drivers (modes cycle opposite ways) and the beams look the same to me even if they do have different current draws, unfortunately I don't have multimeter to test.

*punkaccountant*, when you are making your choice between the torches I linked bear in mind they all have P60 style drop in pills (the LED and reflector unit) so will all have virtually identical beams therefore it's the torch body that makes the difference. I've got 501B's which I'm happy with but the Solarforce L2's are meant to be really well made hence the slightly higher price, also the two cell L2 can be used with just one cell by removing the battery extender tube.


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## punkaccountant (Mar 23, 2009)

Nealy said:


> *punkaccountant*, when you are making your choice between the torches I linked bear in mind they all have P60 style drop in pills (the LED and reflector unit) so will all have virtually identical beams therefore it's the torch body that makes the difference. I've got 501B's which I'm happy with but the Solarforce L2's are meant to be really well made hence the slightly higher price, also the two cell L2 can be used with just one cell by removing the battery extender tube.


Great, I got the 501B and that 3 XM-L so I can blow-away the fellow campers


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## Nealy (Oct 6, 2011)

I'm jealous! You're not going to blow away the other campers, you're going to cook them :lol:

If you fancy a long read here is a 8 page thread on the 3T6 torch TrustFire TR-3T6 Triple XM-L T6 5-Modes Memory LED Flashlight (3x18650) | BudgetLightForum.com


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Nealy said:


> ...*punkaccountant*, when you are making your choice between the torches I linked bear in mind they all have P60 style drop in pills (the LED and reflector unit) so will all have virtually identical beams therefore it's the torch body that makes the difference. I've got 501B's which I'm happy with but the Solarforce L2's are meant to be really well made hence the slightly higher price, also the two cell L2 can be used with just one cell by removing the battery extender tube.


Yep, that was one of the things I noticed when I was looking over the *Lightmall*s web site. They don't tell the customer ( in the product descriptions ) which torches are using drop-ins. Also they don't always give you a full description of the mode functions. *Nealy* you are right though, they don't seem to offer any torches in true 3-mode ( Hi-Med-lo ). The good news is that you can get true 3-modes over on Manafont. Manafont has more true 3-mode torches than you can shake a stick at. ( including drop-ins as well ) 

Personally I own both kinds as both types have there uses. True 3-mode works best for MTB'ing but for road use I like having at least one torch with flash. When I ride road I put a XPE 5-mode ( with 501-B host ) on my helmet. Basically I only use the helmet light for flash/strobe purposes. When I approach a busy intersection I hit the helmet light and let it strobe as I pass through. Once through I reach up and turn it off and continue on.

**Side note: Earlier this year a friend at work was killed while riding his motorcycle through a busy intersection. ( he had right-of-way ). He was struck by an SUV making a left turn who didn't see him. (day time ). I truly believe if motorcycles had a momentary strobe light on front ( say 3-5 sec when activated) many motorcycle accidents could be avoided. Need I say, the same also applies to people on bicycles.


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## punkaccountant (Mar 23, 2009)

Last question (maybe)...what is a good bike mount for these lights for your handlebar?


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yep, that was one of the things I noticed when I was looking over the *Lightmall*s web site. They don't tell the customer ( in the product descriptions ) which torches are using drop-ins. Also they don't always give you a full description of the mode functions. *Nealy* you are right though, they don't seem to offer any torches in true 3-mode ( Hi-Med-lo ). The good news is that you can get true 3-modes over on Manafont. Manafont has more true 3-mode torches than you can shake a stick at. ( including drop-ins as well )
> 
> Personally I own both kinds as both types have there uses. True 3-mode works best for MTB'ing but for road use I like having at least one torch with flash. When I ride road I put a XPE 5-mode ( with 501-B host ) on my helmet. Basically I only use the helmet light for flash/strobe purposes. When I approach a busy intersection I hit the helmet light and let it strobe as I pass through. Once through I reach up and turn it off and continue on.
> 
> **Side note: Earlier this year a friend at work was killed while riding his motorcycle through a busy intersection. ( he had right-of-way ). He was struck by an SUV making a left turn who didn't see him. (day time ). I truly believe if motorcycles had a momentary strobe light on front ( say 3-5 sec when activated) many motorcycle accidents could be avoided. Need I say, the same also applies to people on bicycles.


That's terrible. I also think they need to make motorcycles use the same brightness bulb as cars (or SOMETHING). I recently nearly ran over a motorcyclist coming the opposite direction because he completely blinded me. I couldn't see anything. I suppose it could be said it was his fault but I'd sure feel bad running someone over their fault or mine.

Some of them use something that makes their headlight dim and get brighter in a seemingly random pattern. That's probably the mose effective trick I've seen so far.


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## Nealy (Oct 6, 2011)

punkaccountant said:


> Last question (maybe)...what is a good bike mount for these lights for your handlebar?


I use these for my 501B's (Manafont.com | $3.8 Universal Bicycle Mount (2.06cm~3.12cm Diameter)) I'm happy with them but if you find the joint to give a bit of left to right adjustment is moving of it's own accord and tightening it doesn't help then you'll have to superglue it. Here's an alternative which I know works with the big torch you're getting. (Manafont.com | $3.2 Universal Bicycle Mount for Flashlights & Gadgets)



Cat-man-do said:


> ....*Nealy* you are right though, they don't seem to offer any torches in true 3-mode ( Hi-Med-lo ). The good news is that you can get true 3-modes over on Manafont. Manafont has more true 3-mode torches than you can shake a stick at. ( including drop-ins as well )


I may have to look into replacement 3 mode drop-ins especially as the ones I have cycle in different ways :thumbsup:



Cat-man-do said:


> Personally I own both kinds as both types have there uses. True 3-mode works best for MTB'ing but for road use I like having at least one torch with flash. When I ride road I put a XPE 5-mode ( with 501-B host ) on my helmet. Basically I only use the helmet light for flash/strobe purposes. When I approach a busy intersection I hit the helmet light and let it strobe as I pass through. Once through I reach up and turn it off and continue on.
> 
> **Side note: Earlier this year a friend at work was killed while riding his motorcycle through a busy intersection. ( he had right-of-way ). He was struck by an SUV making a left turn who didn't see him. (day time ). I truly believe if motorcycles had a momentary strobe light on front ( say 3-5 sec when activated) many motorcycle accidents could be avoided. Need I say, the same also applies to people on bicycles.


I do a lot of road riding in the dark just for training and it astounds me how blind or inconsiderate some drivers are, I'm wearing a hi-vis vest have two very bright (but considerately angled) front torches and two rear 2x1/2 watt LED lights (one on seat tube, one on lid) so you really can't miss me but people still pull out on me at the last minute. When this happens I've started using the strobes on them aggressively for a short period to let them know I'm hacked off in the hope they won't do it again. I might look into getting a lower lumen torch to stick on the lid for flashing purposes, the XML T6's are too bright for that and could induce an epileptic fit (only half joking).

That's rubbish mate, sorry you lost your friend. I rode motorbikes everyday come rain, shine or (light) snow for 10 years until fairly recently. I used to love it but I had far too many near misses and once wife and kids came along I couldn't pretend to myself I was safe and couldn't randomly be taken out regardless of how well I was riding. I get my two wheeled kicks mountain biking now, not completely safe but at least the speeds are lower and it'll only be my fault if I knacker myself.



gticlay said:


> Some of them use something that makes their headlight dim and get brighter in a seemingly random pattern. That's probably the most effective trick I've seen so far.


That will very likely be their dipped main beam angling up and down as they ride over bumps giving the appearance of their light flashing, the problem with that is it can look like you're flashing them to pull out of a junction which can be disastrous if the car pulls out assuming the bike is going to slow down. I only used side/position lights in town for this reason but always used dipped main beam on motors ways (or free ways depending on which side of the pond you're on)


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

gticlay said:


> That's terrible. I also think they need to make motorcycles use the same brightness bulb as cars (or SOMETHING). * I recently nearly ran over a motorcyclist coming the opposite direction because he completely blinded me. I couldn't see anything. * I suppose it could be said it was his fault but I'd sure feel bad running someone over their fault or mine.


Usually it's the other way round. Most motorcycle headlights are not that bright unless they have a duel or tri-setup. I don't ride a motorcycle but if I did I would consider mounting a torch with strobe somewhere and then use one of the remote pressure switches for momentary activation.



> Some of them use something that makes their headlight dim and get brighter in a seemingly random pattern. That's probably the mose effective trick I've seen so far.


I don't know squat about motorcycle products but if a product is sold that does that it would certainly be the way to go.


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## betweenrides (Oct 19, 2010)

Good source for Xtar charger, ships very fast from US.


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## Leethal (Feb 5, 2004)

I tried searching this thread but what are you using to mount a torch to your helmet....


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Leethal said:


> I tried searching this thread but what are you using to mount a torch to your helmet....


...the million dollar question. Basically it all depends on the vent configuration of your helmet. I have an old style Bell helmet ( +10yrs old ) that has great vent aliment for torch use. I only need to use an 18" length of Velcro that passes through two of the vents. I wrap a 1" wide section of old rubber inner tube around the torch ( battery tube ) which helps give the torch a bit more grip on the helmet. The strap passes over the torch and keeps it in place. For me this works and has yet to come loose on a ride.

With newer helmets you likely need a more complex solution. You know, it's never been said before but someone could make some money by designing a universal torch holder for bicycle helmets.


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## betweenrides (Oct 19, 2010)

Twofish Lockblock works fine for me. Works best with small form factor torches and can also be used on the bars, although for a larger torch like a C8, the Cyclopblock works better.


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## punkaccountant (Mar 23, 2009)

I received my order of torches and batteries from Lightmalls based on Nealy's recommendation above. Shipping seemed fast as it only took a little over a week. I have 2 problems: The 501b was DOA $16.9 | Ultrafire 501B Cree XML U2 1300 Lumen 5-Mode LED Flashlight (1*18650) Worldwide Free Shipping!!! I isolated it as a bad on/off cap as I could swap caps from my other lights and it would work fine. Does anyone know if you can purchase just the tail cap for these lights? Second problem was the 3T6 torch was so bright that the other lights paled in comparison :yikes: It's too big and heavy for a bike light but it was brighter than my car headlights.

Edit: It seems the tail cap is a problem for these lights. I found these: Manafont.com | $5.99 UltraFire Replacemnet Tailcap Switch Component (5pcs/set) I now just have to figure out how to take out the internals of the cap.


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## betweenrides (Oct 19, 2010)

Jury is mixed on Lightmalls, so I have been hesitant to order from them. You can look at dealer ratings over at BLF:

Budget Dealer Experiences | BudgetLightForum.com


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

punkaccountant said:


> Does anyone know if you can purchase just the tail cap for these lights?


Hope it's not too late:

Manafont.com | $2.42 Replacement Tailcap Switch for Ultrafire 501B


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## punkaccountant (Mar 23, 2009)

random walk said:


> Hope it's not too late:
> 
> Manafont.com | $2.42 Replacement Tailcap Switch for Ultrafire 501B


Nope, not too late. Thanks for the link.


betweenrides said:


> Jury is mixed on Lightmalls, so I have been hesitant to order from them. You can look at dealer ratings over at BLF:
> 
> Budget Dealer Experiences | BudgetLightForum.com


betweenrides: I checked out that link and did a search on Lightmalls. I didn't see anything negative about them except for the website administrator who claimed they were spammers. Based on my limited experience with them, they shipped and answered my questions very quickly. I have no issues except the 501b with bad tailcap and I doubt that was their fault.


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## betweenrides (Oct 19, 2010)

punkaccountant:

I agree - no official review of lightmalls, just a lot of mixed experiences in several posts. I'm sure there are mixed experiences with most of these sites anyway....


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

punkaccountant said:


> ....I received my order of torches and batteries from Lightmalls based on Nealy's recommendation above. Shipping seemed fast as it only took a little over a week. I have 2 problems: *The 501b was DOA $16.9 | Ultrafire 501B Cree XML U2 1300 Lumen 5-Mode LED Flashlight (1*18650) Worldwide Free Shipping!!! I isolated it as a bad on/off cap as I could swap caps from my other lights and it would work fine.* Does anyone know if you can purchase just the tail cap for these lights?....


As was pointed out Manafont sells the replacement switch caps ( as well as the entire host ).
Sometimes the inside ring on the cap comes loose. If you can find something that fits inside the two holes you can tighten it and maybe that will help. It's not unusual to get a bad switch ( or parts on a new torch that are loose ). At least the 501B stuff is cheap and easy to replace. When you order a new cap make sure to get an extra spare. Right now I have three 501B's. One needs a new cap and I should have it by Friday ( ordered from Manafont with my last order ). Hopefully the *Torch Santa* will get it here by Friday.

Do you like the XM-L U2 5-mode drop-in?


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## Nealy (Oct 6, 2011)

punkaccountant said:


> I received my order of torches and batteries from Lightmalls based on Nealy's recommendation above. Shipping seemed fast as it only took a little over a week. I have 2 problems: The 501b was DOA $16.9 | Ultrafire 501B Cree XML U2 1300 Lumen 5-Mode LED Flashlight (1*18650) Worldwide Free Shipping!!! I isolated it as a bad on/off cap as I could swap caps from my other lights and it would work fine. Does anyone know if you can purchase just the tail cap for these lights? Second problem was the 3T6 torch was so bright that the other lights paled in comparison :yikes: It's too big and heavy for a bike light but it was brighter than my car headlights.
> 
> Edit: It seems the tail cap is a problem for these lights. I found these: Manafont.com | $5.99 UltraFire Replacemnet Tailcap Switch Component (5pcs/set) I now just have to figure out how to take out the internals of the cap.


Glad the gear turned up quick from Lightmalls :thumbsup: I've stopped recommending DX to other people because even is you explain it could be 6 weeks plus they still start worrying after half that time. As Cat Man Do has said do try tightening the tail cap plate up, mine tend to unscrew themselves sometimes which can stop them working.

Also glad the 3T6 torch is as bright as others have said, is it definitely to big and heavy to mount on the bars even in 2 cell mode?


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## LiveFreeThenDie (Mar 21, 2010)

Nealy said:


> Also glad the 3T6 torch is as bright as others have said, is it definitely to big and heavy to mount on the bars even in 2 cell mode?


I think ANY 2x18650 light is too large for the bars. The KD C8 is slightly larger than the P7 is replaced. At 15 cm length and 4 cm diameter head, it's as large as I want on my bars. My bike is a mere 53 cm. If you had a 60 cm frame, it might not look so large. Unless you want a throw monster, you may be happier with two 1x18650 torches. Spare batteries are easy to pack.

I have also avoid 2x18650 lights because of the additional care needed to ensure batteries are matched. But then, I commute and it isn't pitch black except for a couple of short stretches on paved areas.

YMMV


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## punkaccountant (Mar 23, 2009)

How long does it take to for orders to arrive from Manafont in the US? On December 9th, I placed two orders...one from Light Malls and One from Manafont. I received the Light Malls shipment within 9 days. I'm still waiting from the one from Manafont. Their website says it was dispatched on the 12th but I'm still waiting.


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## betweenrides (Oct 19, 2010)

You are a victim of the Christmas Crunch. Lot's of shipping going on through HK and China Post. My last MF order was placed on 11/29, received 12/19. Another order from International Outdoor Store took the same amount of time to the day. In the past, MF and IOS have take 9-12 days.


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## 'BentRyder (Sep 17, 2011)

Here is a comparison between the "Tank007 TK-736" and the "UF-504B"
Funny enough, I get 4.75 OZ on the zoomie and 5 oz on the 504B including the battery.
note: the Tank is a DIY host with a DX 28mm glass lens adaption.










These are both -excellent- bike lights!


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## walkertalker (Dec 13, 2011)

I like the Skyray I have three very reliable, well made and throw 300 lm, you can even get them cheaper than dealextreme. See next post for link.


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## walkertalker (Dec 13, 2011)

Skyray next post sorry.


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## walkertalker (Dec 13, 2011)

Skyray
UltraFire M5 CREE-MC-E 3-Mode 700-Lumen Warm White LED Flashlight with Strap (1*18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


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## 'BentRyder (Sep 17, 2011)

I have that SkyRay too which is now a custom flooder. Unfortunately, the weak link, and unserviceable is the tailcap switch. Otherwise it is a nice little light.

You can buy it as a host at Manafont for only $7.99
Manafont.com | $7.99 Sky Ray S-R5 Flashlight Tube (No LED emitter)

It should be fine up through about 1.5A but after that I'd worry.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

punkaccountant said:


> How long does it take to for orders to arrive from Manafont in the US? On December 9th, I placed two orders...one from Light Malls and One from Manafont. I received the Light Malls shipment within 9 days. I'm still waiting from the one from Manafont. Their website says it was dispatched on the 12th but I'm still waiting.


I ordered mine ( from Manafont ) the first week of December and just got mine on Tuesday. Just missed Christmas by a couple days. I figured it took 18 days total...not bad considering the seasonal rush.

Currently I've not had a lot of time to play with my new torches. I got stuck on a graveyard shift after Christmas...lucky me. *I have some interesting new offerings.* Hopefully tomorrow I will have some free time to give them a quick try on the bike. Once I do I'll get back and do a quickie review.


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## AL904 (Dec 5, 2010)

I ride once a week, 2x20 km. The route is mainly on road,half of the city. Which Manafont XML toch do you recommend to install on the handlebars. A torch 5 modes seems a good choice for addressing dangerous crossings.


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## Nealy (Oct 6, 2011)

AL904 said:


> I ride once a week, 2x20 km. The route is mainly on road,half of the city. Which Manafont XML toch do you recommend to install on the handlebars. A torch 5 modes seems a good choice for addressing dangerous crossings.


I've got 501B's so I'd recommend them

Manafont.com | $13.99 UltraFire WF-501B T6 5-Mode LED Flashlight (1*18650) - Black


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## AL904 (Dec 5, 2010)

which difference between Ultrafire WF-501B T6 and Ultrafire C8 T6, each with XML led from Manafond


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

AL904 said:


> which difference between Ultrafire WF-501B T6 and Ultrafire C8 T6, each with XML led from Manafond


The 501-B's are smaller and are designed to use drop-ins. The C8;s are bigger ( heavier ) and do not use drop-ins. I own both kinds. I favor the 501-B's. Great for helmet, bars...all around use.

I have some newer 3-mode torches that are great for road use ( no flash modes ). I just haven't had much time to review them. I should also mention that 3-mode XML drop-ins are available for the 501-B's at Manafont. It really all depends on which type you want...with flash mode or without. You can buy the 5 mode with 501B ( nealy link ) and then just buy and extra 3 mode drop-in if you are not sure which you want. Drop-in's are about $15. Make sure you also order a torch holder for the bars as well...also batteries, charger..etc.

Sorry , no time to supply all links....off to work.


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## punkaccountant (Mar 23, 2009)

punkaccountant said:


> How long does it take to for orders to arrive from Manafont in the US? On December 9th, I placed two orders...one from Light Malls and One from Manafont. I received the Light Malls shipment within 9 days. I'm still waiting from the one from Manafont. Their website says it was dispatched on the 12th but I'm still waiting.


I know this doesn't really matter to anyone else but me but it is interesting to note if you are interested in ordering some torches and can't decide on who to get them from. I placed 2 orders on the same day from Light Malls and Manafont. I received the Light Malls shipment rather quickly. I am still waiting on my order from Manafont. I placed an order from Deal Extreme a week after the Manafont order and got it about 10 days ago. I checked on-line and it says it was dispatched on December 12th. I guess they shipped it via the slow boat. I contacted Manafont and so far crickets but I didn't expect them to know or do anything about it. Anyway, I just wanted to blow off some steam about this.


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> Sometimes the inside ring on the cap comes loose. If you can find something that fits inside the two holes you can tighten it and maybe that will help.


Just wanted to chime in and say this was exactly the issue I had with a 501b torch I bought a year ago, which stopped working recently. A pair of sharp-tipped tweezers solved the problem as Catmando suggested.


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## Khrystyan27 (Jul 3, 2011)

I vote for this:

MagicShine MJ-880 2 x Cree XM-L 2000LM White Bike Light Set with 6.6 Ah Battery - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

Wish i had one... Too cool for a bike light.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Khrystyan27 said:


> I vote for this:
> 
> MagicShine MJ-880 2 x Cree XM-L 2000LM White Bike Light Set with 6.6 Ah Battery - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
> 
> Wish i had one... Too cool for a bike light.


This thread is about handheld flashlights or "torches".


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

punkaccountant said:


> I know this doesn't really matter to anyone else but me but it is interesting to note if you are interested in ordering some torches and can't decide on who to get them from.


Anyone order any new torches lately?

Any "new" sources that are *not* Deal Extreme?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

GSJ1973 said:


> Anyone order any new torches lately?
> 
> Any "new" sources that are *not* Deal Extreme?


If you go back about 30-40 posts you will see a couple links to other web sites that people are buying from. ( not to mention "what they are buying as well". ) I like the Manafont web site as they have a very large number of torches to choose from. Tonight *slcpunk* posted up this web site which has some interesting offerings as well.


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## chrootz (Dec 12, 2010)

Hi, I bought 2 of Solarforce L2P flashlight and got drop-in from Manafont. HOLY CRAP very bright and lit whole street up. Kickass!

I tried link to the manafont p60 host drop-in, and it seems wont let me post due I made only 5 out of 10 something. :madman:


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## chrootz (Dec 12, 2010)

I have idea..... Go Manafont.com and search SKU: 5720

You will see "Ultrafire Cree T6 3-Mode Memory LED Drop-in Module (4.2V max)"


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## chrootz (Dec 12, 2010)

Here the beamshot: i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/dulridge/40m%20Shots/file-45.jpg

Just copy and paste check the beamshot picture on the website.


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## AlisterG (Nov 14, 2008)

CNQ have some newer Yezl Z1X type offerings, if pocket rocket floods are your thing. Not got any, but I'm tempted. Yet to see any feedback on them in the usual places.

Citycat YEE-Lic 1x18650 CREE XM-L T6 LED 800-lumens Straight tube Flashlight_Citycat Flashlights_Flashlight Retail-FREE SHIPPING

Eagle Eye Super bright Mini 2.8A HAIII 1x18650 CREE XM-L T6 CW/NW LED flashlight_XM-L T6 Flashlight_Flashlights_Flashlight Retail-FREE SHIPPING

F12 Desert Yellow Mini 1x18650 CREE XM-L T6 Straight Tube Flashlight_XM-L T6 Flashlight_Flashlights_Flashlight Retail-FREE SHIPPING

Just read some feedback, Citycat is too short for protected 18650's


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## Gingerdawg (Nov 14, 2007)

This looks interesting.
NEW-111C XML T6 5-Mode 1000LM LED Convex Lens Flashlight w/ Batteries Charger & Holster (2x18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Gingerdawg said:


> This looks interesting.
> NEW-111C XML T6 5-Mode 1000LM LED Convex Lens Flashlight w/ Batteries Charger & Holster (2x18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


Although the product description doesn't mention it, these look like "Flood to throw" torches. The front part moves to adjust the beam width. You will also notice not many people post saying they like the FTT torches. They work fine but the beam pattern/intensity will almost always be lacking. I own three similar torches and actual gave one away. They are good for camping and other around-the-house use though.

If you want to peruse other good torch sites here are a couple more > Manafont and Qualitygoods.


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## marpilli (Feb 8, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Although the product description doesn't mention it, these look like "Flood to throw" torches. The front part moves to adjust the beam width. You will also notice not many people post saying they like the FTT torches. They work fine but the beam pattern/intensity will almost always be lacking. I own three similar torches and actual gave one away. They are good for camping and other around-the-house use though.


This is good information, thanks. I plan on doing some research this summer so I can try out some nite riding in the fall/winter.

If the FTT are not desirable, what type should I focus on (yes, pun intended. )? Non adjustable? Or, adjustable by some other means?


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## warimono (Nov 23, 2010)

I just ordered 2x Ultrafire WF-501B T6
and a Red Ring OP Magicshine clone from manafont. Hope everything turns out ok. These will be my first night riding lights.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

marpilli said:


> This is good information, thanks. I plan on doing some research this summer so I can try out some nite riding in the fall/winter.
> 
> *If the FTT are not desirable, what type should I focus on (yes, pun intended. )? Non adjustable? Or, adjustable by some other means*?


Almost all torches use reflectors ( except the FTT's ). They will vary in width and well as length. Some reflectors will be smooth, some will be textured ( otherwise called "OP" or orange pealed if you will ) The OP will usually give you a slightly wider beam pattern.
Choosing the right torch will depend on your intended use, ( helmet or bars ). For the helmet you need something that doesn't have so big a reflector or is too heavy. For the bars this is not so much an issue but some people still like to keep things unobtrusive. I see lots of good choices. Some website's will let you choose the emitter tint as well as the mode set-up which is really great.

If you want recommendations I can tell you the stuff that I use ( and why I like them ) but by all means go back and look over the past 30 or so posts and see what others are using.

Even with all the nice bike lights I have I "STILL" like using torches for when I know I will only see maybe an hour or so of darkness. Sometimes you just don't need to carry a full bike light set-up. Torches weigh less and can supply all the light you need. Carry only the number of batteries ( single cells ) that you need and you're good to go. One big tip...Manafont is your best friend.  ....Quality goods, a little slow but some good choices as well.


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## Titus Maximus (Jan 3, 2004)

I found a good source for flashlight banter recently. BudgetLightForum.com | ...where Frugal meets with Flashlight!
Which led to me purchasing my first XML flashlight, er torch. Shadow JM07 Pro. 
Shadow XM-L JM07 PRO 1x26650 Flashlight [Shadow JM-07 PRO] - $49.50 : Led Flashlight-International Outdoor Store
I rode with it for the first time last night, hung from the bars with a 2fish. Need to figure out a solid mount for it! Nice light. Hella thrower, yet good wide spill.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Titus Maximus said:


> I found a good source for flashlight banter recently. BudgetLightForum.com | ...where Frugal meets with Flashlight!
> Which led to me purchasing my first XML flashlight, er torch. Shadow JM07 Pro.
> Shadow XM-L JM07 PRO 1x26650 Flashlight [Shadow JM-07 PRO] - $49.50 : Led Flashlight-International Outdoor Store
> I rode with it for the first time last night, hung from the bars with a 2fish. Need to figure out a solid mount for it! Nice light. Hella thrower, yet good wide spill.


Titus, Looks like a nice choice. I've thought about getting a torch that uses 26650 cells before but always held off because of the larger size. At least the one you link to has choice of tint and choice of mode which is really the best way to go. If I bought one I would go 3 mode with neutral tint...hey but whatever works right..:thumbsup: At least with the the 26650 cells you might get extra run time. I don't know if Panasonic makes 26650 cells but if you can find one you should get a real 4000mah cell which would be super.

Fitting that torch to the bars might be hard. This bar mount might be the only one that might work with a torch that size (?) I use mine with a standard ( C2 type ) torch host and it works fine once you get it dialed in. I just now tried it out with a pill bottle to see how it would work with a 26650 torch and it seems to do quite well. Actually probably better than with the C2. The problem with this mount is that it does move a bit on the bars. I figure a little fiction tape on the bars should fix it though if it becomes more problematic. On smaller diameter bars it might be more of a problem though. Anyway, the mount also swivels which is nice. So far I've only used mine a couple times so it's not quite dialed in yet. ( If you buy one probably a good idea to buy two. Never know how long the notched rubber straps will last or get lost.


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## BritOnTour (Feb 17, 2011)

Titus Maximus said:


> I found a good source for flashlight banter recently. BudgetLightForum.com | ...where Frugal meets with Flashlight!
> Which led to me purchasing my first XML flashlight, er torch. Shadow JM07 Pro.
> Shadow XM-L JM07 PRO 1x26650 Flashlight [Shadow JM-07 PRO] - $49.50 : Led Flashlight-International Outdoor Store
> I rode with it for the first time last night, hung from the bars with a 2fish. Need to figure out a solid mount for it! Nice light. Hella thrower, yet good wide spill.


Some interesting stuff on that website you bought the Shadow from. :thumbsup:


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## warimono (Nov 23, 2010)

So I keep seeing that manafont used to be pretty fast(about 2 weeks) but now they are upwards of a month for delivery time. Is there a place where you can pay a bit more for faster reliable delivery?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

warimono said:


> So I keep seeing that manafont used to be pretty fast(about 2 weeks) but now they are upwards of a month for delivery time. Is there a place where you can pay a bit more for faster reliable delivery?


When it comes to the Chinese websites it really is luck of the draw. If you order something that is in stock or at a slow time of the year the stuff will come pretty fast. ( 16-18 days ) Order a popular item when demand is high and you're going to wait longer. ( a month or more just before Christmas )

If you want cheap and fast, I hate to say it but e-bay has many people selling torches that can have the item in your hand in days. Just make sure you chose one who is shipping from your country of choice. CandlePowerForums are another source for finding local sellers if you live in the U.S. Go to their website and just click on some ads. If you buy a name brand torch just expect to pay higher prices as well as higher shipping cost.

Personally I like the Chinese websites because they have lots of choices on one site. They're inexpensive and standard shipping is free. Two or three weeks can seem like a long time when you need something right away. If you want fast though you usually do have to pay more.


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## warimono (Nov 23, 2010)

Ah, makes sense. I figured there was some US retailers that already had a stock of them, charged some % more but made a more reliable transaction. I usually dismiss ebay but sounds like thats the wayto go if you can find a good seller.



Cat-man-do said:


> When it comes to the Chinese websites it really is luck of the draw. If you order something that is in stock or at a slow time of the year the stuff will come pretty fast. ( 16-18 days ) Order a popular item when demand is high and you're going to wait longer. ( a month or more just before Christmas )
> 
> If you want cheap and fast, I hate to say it but e-bay has many people selling torches that can have the item in your hand in days. Just make sure you chose one who is shipping from your country of choice. CandlePowerForums are another source for finding local sellers if you live in the U.S. Go to their website and just click on some ads. If you buy a name brand torch just expect to pay higher prices as well as higher shipping cost.
> 
> Personally I like the Chinese websites because they have lots of choices on one site. They're inexpensive and standard shipping is free. Two or three weeks can seem like a long time when you need something right away. If you want fast though you usually do have to pay more.


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## Titus Maximus (Jan 3, 2004)

Well, I believe I've got my hard mount solved, at least for now. I didn't have to search far. The answer was lying in my parts drawer. It's not a perfect fit by any means, but it seems to be quite secure. All I needed to buy was some longer screws. Shake down cruise tonight!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Titus Maximus said:


> Well, I believe I've got my hard mount solved, at least for now. I didn't have to search far. The answer was lying in my parts drawer. It's not a perfect fit by any means, but it seems to be quite secure. All I needed to buy was some longer screws. Shake down cruise tonight!


Hey Titus, that looks pretty nice. The mount might be a little high to suit my taste but hey, it works. As far as the torch itself, it doesn't look as clunky as I thought it would. As far as self-contained lights go, this is about as big as I would be willing to go.

I'm really curious to know how long the 26650 cell will run on high. Let us know when you do the run down.

Oh, and nice touch rigging up the mount. :thumbsup:


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## Titus Maximus (Jan 3, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> I'm really curious to know how long the 26650 cell will run on high.


From Foy's review on budgetlightforum.com ...

"Run-time with a King Kong 26650 charged to 4.22 volts.

time	Foyometer
9:21	170
9:29	145
10:04	145
10:32	158
11:00	160
11:20	135
11:21	122

Looks like you get about two full hours on high."

Review: Shadow JM07 Pro "Stone White" Limited Edition | BudgetLightForum.com


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## -bb- (Feb 3, 2005)

have you guys seen this new 3x XML-T6 light? 
Looks pretty nice to me. I've had a lot of lights from DX and have been happy with all but one of them (super spot in the center, good thrower but useless for biking).

The beam shots on this one look like a nice bar-mount flood.

FandyFire UV-S5 CREE XM-L T6 3-Mode 3000LM 3-LED White Flashlight w/ Strap - Yellow (4 x 18650) - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX


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## -bb- (Feb 3, 2005)

have you guys seen this new 3x XML-T6 light?
Looks pretty nice to me. I've had a lot of lights from DX and have been happy with all but one of them (super spot in the center, good thrower but useless for biking).

The beam shots on this one look like a nice bar-mount flood.

FandyFire UV-S5 CREE XM-L T6 3-Mode 3000LM 3-LED White Flashlight w/ Strap - Yellow (4 x 18650) - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*CityCat XML torch: Review*

I just picked-up a CityCat XM-L torch. It does look kind of cheap but I liked the options offered so I thought I'd roll the dice and see what happens.

Mine is black and is the 3-mode version. The emitter is the "Neutral White" option. As soon as I got it I put a battery ( 18650 ) in it, turned it on and Nothing happened. :madman:
I was at work when I first tried it out so I was very frustrated. After I got home I tried a couple quick fixes but nothing helped although I could make the torch flash a little. Finally I figured how to take the switch out and that apparently helped. Basically the problem is with the switch. If I screw it in all the way it doesn't work. If I back it out a bit it seems to work fine...ummmm. It would be real easy to just call it junk but it does have some interesting features.

The torch comes with a very nice kit. It includes a "white rubber" front diffuser which is very nice. Great for turning the torch into an emergency or camping lamp. it also includes a lanyard, some extra O-rings, a spare switch and rubber end cap.

So far it seems to be working but to change modes you seem to have to pulse the button twice for each change which is not good. 
What is interesting is that the color tint of the emitter is quite mild. A very low-grade neutral white if I do say so.

Right now it is hard to judge the output but I estimate maybe 550-600 lumen on high. The most interesting feature is the beam pattern. It has the widest hot spot of any torch I own. This makes it a very good torch for the bars. Since the tint is so mild it should be very easy on the eyes. Can't wait to try it out on a trail.

Since the torch is problematic I will be watching and updating when I get more info. One last note: boy does it get hot on high. Hopefully this will not be a problem. I'll let you know.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Continued from last post:*

Don't know why I didn't ride earlier today but I had to see what the CityCat torch was going to look like while riding. So anyway, at 4:00AM in the morning I go out for a quick spin on the local paved bike/hike trail.

For the most part I'm pleased. Both the mid-mode and the High mode look very good and the tint is very easy on the eyes. I can't wait to see how the softer tint is going to look on dirt. While it's not the brightest or farthest throwing torch I own the Citycat XM-L has a very nice mix of throw and beam spread. The only downer so far is the switch that sometimes takes two presses to change mode. Not a big issue for me as long as it changes.

I forgot to mention in the first post that there is an internal sleeve to the back part of the torch. This keeps the battery from moving around. So far it works with all my 18650's including my new Panasonics. If everything goes as planned tomorrow ( if it doesn't rain ) I will give both the Gloworm V2 and the Citycat their first trail test.


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## AlisterG (Nov 14, 2008)

Appreciate your feedback on the CityCat. Did it take protected cells ok or was it too short? If the 3C tint is nice, I may go for the slightly larger Eagle Eye on CNQG, which looks very similar to the Marsfire T6 A on Manafont. Just received a N Light ST50 4C tint, which has a fairly wide beam and decent throw. Not quite a helmet light or a bar light but at a modest 2A it doesn't get too hot. It has replaced my Ultrafire P10, which is light but a bit underpowered (still kicks a Joystick though)


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

AlisterG said:


> Appreciate your feedback on the CityCat. Did it take protected cells ok or was it too short?


All my cells worked and they are all protected. Like I said before, I did have to unscrew the rear of the torch to make it work. Since then I have been using the Panasonic ( protected )3100mAh cell which is my biggest cell. Last night I screw the back of the torch all the way back in and so far there have been no other problems. From what I can tell the back of the torch is the only part that can be easily disassembled.

I bought the Citycat because I already owned a Yezi Z1X which is very similar in build form. I very much like the small form factor of these torches even though they don't have the ability to dissipate heat like the larger torches. I would have bought another Yezi but I wanted a neutral white emitter and the CNQuality site didn't offer that as an option. The Yezi Z1X has a deeper reflector and gives a more narrow hot spot although not without some artifacts. The Citycat is not as deep and has a bigger hot spot with no artifacts. This gives a wider bright area to the beam pattern which I like although the Z1X has a bit more throw. In my opinion, the CCat has the more useful beam pattern if you're looking for a bar light. Just make sure that if you use the high mode that you keep it short. The CCat gets real hot real fast. As such probably not the torch to use for someone in a warmer clilmate or who wants to use the high mode most of the time.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*CCat review continued:*

Took the CCat out on the trails tonight. I was very pleased. Mid-mode works very well and has useful throw to about 30-50ft. depending on terrain. Keep in mind that the CCat is designed for a wider output. High mode of course is much better. The mid-mode on the CityCat compared very well to the Gloworm's ( V2 ) lowest low mode.

I'm tempted now to buy another but this time with a Cool white emitter. A little brighter would be real nice as long as it doesn't have a blue tint. That's the thing about torches. You really don't know what you're getting until it's in your hands. BTW, that gun metal blue body looks real nice....oh my, looks like I'm on a torch buying spree again... :bluefrown:


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## plasticmann (May 7, 2006)

Interesting light on DX. Seems like a good form factor for bike light with 2 x 18650.

New-117 Cree XM-L T6 860LM 4-Mode Cool White Light Flashlight - Red (2 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


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## Beckler (Jan 25, 2008)

Clearly a Fenix clone. I dunno, I hesitate to order any generic stuff from DX. Everything I've ever ordered from them is complete and utter junk-quality (even when people in reviews were saying it's good) and only about half of it even works. If I'm spending $4k on a mountain bike I see no reason to junk out on a $30 light. Just IMO.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

plasticmann said:


> Interesting light on DX. Seems like a good form factor for bike light with 2 x 18650.
> 
> New-117 Cree XM-L T6 860LM 4-Mode Cool White Light Flashlight - Red (2 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


I like the two cell concept. I've been waiting a long time for someone to make something like that. The "red" is quite ugly though, not to mention I don't think it would work with standard handlebar mounts. It has a nice 4-mode menu though. If you can figure a way to mount it it might make a good bar light.

Beckler...yes, some of the stuff is junk. I do buy lots of Chinese torches and yes I've gotten a couple that were junk.....You's lays your money down and you's take your chances.


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## pixel_nut (Jun 27, 2012)

I own an Ultrafire Cree C3 w/ AA extension tube. It's a decent flashlight, but it isn't the most reliable. I ended up buying a foursevens Quark Tactical QT2L-X. 306 lumen max output when you really need it and an XML LED that gives the perfect spread and more than enough throw to get the job done. $63 approximately, and well worth it.


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## encouragable (Dec 24, 2011)

Its a TK-35 look-alike. KaiDomain has had one for a while now: http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S020017

Reviews seem to indicate it does what it promises, about 800 lumens and great throw.

Here's a thread about how to hold it on a bike: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?308965-What-mount-fits-a-Fenix-TK35


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## Beckler (Jan 25, 2008)

The problem with reviews though are that people have different standards. To each his own, however. They're useful if facts are stated though.

Fenix also has the similar LD41 which runs on AAs. I'm not crazy about Fenix myself however. I don't think the designs are the best.

I wouldn't buy the clone stuff myself because what when it fails (almost certainly sooner than the real item) then I'll go out and buy the real thing and have lost $35 instead of saving anything at all. People might review a cheap light after a month and say it's great, but how many go and post later to brag about how their junk light is now in the garbage and they've gone and bought something else...yeah no one. Just saying.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Beckler said:


> The problem with reviews though are that people have different standards. To each his own, however. They're useful if facts are stated though.
> 
> Fenix also has the similar LD41 which runs on AAs. I'm not crazy about Fenix myself however. I don't think the designs are the best.
> 
> I wouldn't buy the clone stuff myself because what when it fails (almost certainly sooner than the real item) then I'll go out and buy the real thing and have lost $35 instead of saving anything at all. * People might review a cheap light after a month and say it's great, but how many go and post later to brag about how their junk light is now in the garbage and they've gone and bought something else...yeah no one. Just saying.*


Yeah, I'm sure it happens. Last year I bought a nice little torch for EDC. Nice and compact and fit well in my pocket. For me a pocket torch is a "must have item". Never had a problem with it till one day it slipped out of my hand and hit the pavement. When I tried to turn it on it wouldn't work after that. Yeah, I was mad. I contacted the seller. They were willing to replace it but it would have meant waiting likely three months for the turn around. ( Chinese of course ).

Since the item was only about $25 I decided to just buy another of the same unit. Sometimes an item is just too useful not to have and worth the replacement cost.

Cheap torches can be finicky though. Sometimes you have to disassemble/reassemble to get them to work right. A person who isn't willing to do that should never buy a cheap Chinese made torch. On the other hand if you're not willing to spend $80 to $100 for a single USA made torch and don't mind fiddling around with cheap torch hosts than buying a Chinese made torch is a nice option. Get one that works and if it last a couple years ( and you don't lose or misplace it ) you will be happy.

In the mean time new LED's will come out and you will likely replace it anyway.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

Those of you guys/gals with multiple torches, can you please post your absolute favorites with links and a description (pencil throw versus wide flood)? My son has managed to lose a couple of mine over the last year, and reading 28 pages has made my head spin. Not to mention I'm sure some of these torches are now considered "old technology" I guess in a way. 

Thx


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

GSJ1973 said:


> Those of you guys/gals with multiple torches, can you please post your absolute favorites with links and a description (pencil throw versus wide flood)? My son has managed to lose a couple of mine over the last year, and reading 28 pages has made my head spin. Not to mention I'm sure some of these torches are now considered "old technology" I guess in a way.
> 
> Thx


I might be able to help but I need to narrow down what it is that you think you want. That means I have to ask some questions:
1) Is this for bike only use? If this is just for bike use where do you intend to mount it, bars or helmet?
2) Is this for road use , Mt bike trail use or all of the above?
3) Which beam type ( flood or spot ) do you prefer?
4) What maximum brightness level are you looking for?
5) Do you prefer single mode or multi-mode? If multi-mode 3 or 5 mode?
6) With or without flash/strobe modes?
7) What battery type do you want to work with? 18650 Li-ion cells, AA cells, AAA cells..etc?
8) If for bike use how long do you normally ride or to put another way, what kind of run time are you looking for?
9) Does it matter to you how big the torch is? Do like a smaller footprint or does it not matter?
10) *Lastly, how much money are you willing to spend on a torch set-up? You might want to answer this one first as it will help save time.
*
Yeah, I know a lot of questions but with so many torchs out there it really does help when getting people set up with something that fits their needs.


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## h79 (Jun 27, 2012)

I really like the golden 3x XM-L light that is sold as "FandyFire UV-S5" or "Sky Ray King". 

Very bright, you get very much light for less money. But sadly it has got only two modes.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Yeah, I know a lot of questions but with so many torchs out there it really does help when getting people set up with something that fits their needs.


Thanks!

1) Is this for bike only use? If this is just for bike use where do you intend to mount it, bars or helmet? -* I'd like one for bars (flood) and helmet (throw, with some flood)*
2) Is this for road use , Mt bike trail use or all of the above? *- Mountian*
3) Which beam type ( flood or spot ) do you prefer? *See #1*
4) What maximum brightness level are you looking for? *- 600-900 lumens flood, 500 +/-100 lumens on the helmet is OK*
5) Do you prefer single mode or multi-mode? If multi-mode 3 or 5 mode? *- on/off is cool. I'm easy.*
6) With or without flash/strobe modes? -* no strobe*
7) What battery type do you want to work with? 18650 Li-ion cells, AA cells, AAA cells..etc? -* 18650 is ideal*
8) If for bike use how long do you normally ride or to put another way, what kind of run time are you looking for? *- I don't mind carrying spare batteries, but my night rides are anywhere from 1 hour to 6 hours*
9) Does it matter to you how big the torch is? Do like a smaller footprint or does it not matter? -* Smaller the better. Don't want a heavy torch on the helmet..*
10) Lastly, how much money are you willing to spend on a torch set-up? You might want to answer this one first as it will help save time. *$50 each or less.*

Thanks again!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*GSJ*....I'll get back to you. I'm back to work now, the holiday is over.


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> *GSJ*....I'll get back to you. I'm back to work now, the holiday is over.


I always thought contributing to these forums was you job


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Does anyone have an XPG drop in they might not need anymore? I have (well, had) and XML and it burned out so I need a new drop in and thought I'd just go with something lighter duty this time.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

GSJ1973 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 1) Is this for bike only use? If this is just for bike use where do you intend to mount it, bars or helmet? -* I'd like one for bars (flood) and helmet (throw, with some flood)*
> 2) Is this for road use , Mt bike trail use or all of the above? *- Mountian*
> ...


Okay, here goes. It's been a while since I've perused the web sites selling torches. Things change. Products disappear. There are not a lot of torches sold anymore using just one mode. That being the case I highly suggest that two or three modes is the better way to go.

You have to remember that torches are basically designed for quick on/off hand-held use. As such they don't dissipate heat very well unless there is moving air to cool them. That is why having one or two lower modes comes in handy. Regardless, certain torch "host" types are better at dissipating heat than others

These I suggest might serve your purpose. *Please note I don't necessarily own these torches. * Another important issue I have to note is that most torches don't really have a quote, "flood beam pattern". Some have wider hot spots but all pretty much give about the same amount of spill. With this in mind the ones with wider hot spots I favor for the bars and ALWAYS with an OP reflector.

For the bars I thought this looks to be an excellent torch ( LXP XM-L T6 ). Very nice build and you get to order the driver, led tint, and mode configuration ( 2, 3 or five ) of your choice. It doesn't get better than that. If I was starting over I would consider buying one of these. If it were me I'd get the driver with the highest output. The torch body looks robust enough to handle the heat.

For the bars: suggestion #2...The Aurora AK-P7-4. This is a simple two mode torch ( H-L )using the SSC P7-C emitter. Pretty much old school now but I have a torch similar to this one and for many years I thought the beam pattern very nice for the bars. Output is limited to 1500ma so you will only get about a 400-450 lumen output on high. Heat should not be an issue.

For the bars #3: Citycat 3-mode. ( XM-L T6 emitter ) This one I own and have on my bars for back-up purposes. The pluses are that you get to choose the LED tint and how many modes you want as well as the torch body color. Mine is black but it also comes in silver and gray/blue. Mine I ordered with a neutral white led. While not as bright a white as I thought it would be strangely enough this torch has the widest hotspot ( and spill ) of any torch I own. It is not my brightest but boy does it have a nice beam pattern for the bars. The only problem is that it uses a very small ( straight tube ) torch body. I love the small size but it does heat up quite fast when used on high. *As long as you are careful not to use the high mode at slower speeds you should be fine. ( * If you live in a warm climate this one might not work for you. )

For the bars #4: Well you did say you wanted a single mode.   This is your basic Ultrafire 502-B . This one is using a basic one mode XM-L emitter P-60 drop-in module. Expect about a 400-450 lumen output. Nice thing about a drop in torch is that you can always get better drop-ins if you want more power or modes. ( replacement P-60 drop-ins cost about $13 to $20 ) I use drop-in torches a lot. I have links to those as well which I will get to later. The beam patterns on drop-in are very well suited for both bar and helmet use. Once again, OP reflectors offer a little more spill and are best for the bars.

Torches best suited for helmet use I will get to in the next post. I'll let you mull over these a while before I start on those.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> ...Torches best suited for helmet use I will get to in the next post. I'll let you mull over these a while before I start on those.


For the helmet, I keep it simple. I use a Ultrafire 501B torch host coupled with a good XM-L drop-in. For me this works, it's lite, fairly small and the *_beam pattern_ is very functional for helmet use. ( *not real narrow and not real wide ) I prefer a 3-mode drop-in ( H-M-L ). The one I have uses the XM-L T6 emitter. When used with a Panasonic 3100 mAh cell the output is maximized.

Both the Ultrafire 501B host and the 3-mode XM-L T-6 drop-ins are available from Manafont ( each sold separately ). Not to mention Manafont has replacement switch buttons caps if one happens to go up on you. All very reasonably priced. If you need the links let me know.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> For the helmet, I keep it simple. I use a Ultrafire 501B torch host coupled with a good XM-L drop-in. For me this works, it's lite, fairly small and the *_beam pattern_ is very functional for helmet use. ( *not real narrow and not real wide ) I prefer a 3-mode drop-in ( H-M-L ). The one I have uses the XM-L T6 emitter. When used with a Panasonic 3100 mAh cell the output is maximized.
> 
> Both the Ultrafire 501B host and the 3-mode XM-L T-6 drop-ins are available from Manafont ( each sold separately ). Not to mention Manafont has replacement switch buttons caps if one happens to go up on you. All very reasonably priced. If you need the links let me know.


Thank you Cat for the detailed responses, much appreciated!

Cheers!


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## JonnieBlaze (Jul 6, 2012)

The LXP XM-L T6 that you linked to above, Cat-man-do, seems about the same size as the 501B. So I'm guessing it would be fine for helmet duty as well, or does it have drawbacks? 

I'm a newb when it comes to these 10 thousand different torch choices and why one is better than another, but I really think that LXP XM-L T6 torch has a lot going for it. I was thinking the LXP XM-L T6 with the 850 lumen driver, H-M-L modes, neutral white (read its not quite as bright as cool white, but gives better depth perception to objects) would be a good choice (for me at least, with my criteria similar to GSJ's). I'd get one and put on the helmet, and get another one and modify an Action-LED wide lens to fit it and put that one on the bars. Seems like Action LED is the only wide lens around...can't find any on DX or Manafont.

I guess the 501B would be a cheaper alternative than the other and have a similar size. I assume with the XM-L drop-in it would have the same lumen output as well? The 501B just seems to be missing features like neutral white color, memory function, and low voltage protection. Nevermind on that last part....seems like that is all determined by which drop-in you choose for the 501B.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Any recommendations for a 3 mode AA torch, no strobe please!
Something just like this but with a clicky switch rather than the twisty-come-loose-in-your-bag seen here.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

znomit said:


> Any recommendations for a 3 mode AA torch, no strobe please!
> Something just like this but with a clicky switch rather than the twisty-come-loose-in-your-bag seen here.


What you described is perhaps the perfect EDC ( every day carry ) torch. I have one that fits along the same line but does has one flash mode. Mine uses an XP-E, is AA powered, has memory and is H-L-F. I carry it with me everywhere I go. Real important for an EDC torch not to have any sharp edges so not to make holes in pockets.

Anyway, I'll find the link when I get home. If I find a true 3-mode with clicky I'll let you know.
I actually use the flash on mine when I have to walk across busy streets while doing my job at night. You might reconsider the flash option.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

znomit said:


> Any recommendations for a 3 mode AA torch, no strobe please!
> Something just like this but with a clicky switch rather than the twisty-come-loose-in-your-bag seen here.


Okay, here's the link to the one I own > UltraFire - MCU-C9s R5 Cree 285-Lumen 3-Mode Flashlight (1*AA/14500) - Black
The one I have is silver otherwise the same. Easier to find something silver if you drop it. The ad lists the output as 285 lumen but I think that is just the lumen rating of the LED. Actual output is about 110 lumen on high. Medium is just a bit less ...maybe 80 or so. Hardly any difference between the two outputs. Still, 110 is pretty bright for EDC torch. Although not listed mine has memory.

I also found this one interesting but OH! the COST!> KLARUS XT1A CREE XP-G R5 150-Lumen 4-Mode LED Flashlight - Titanium Finish (AA) 
When I saw this one I was wishing it wasn't so expensive.  It has a 150 lumen max output with a true 3-mode ( H-M-L ) menu along with a separate (push and hold ) strobe menu. This would be a really nice torch to own. If it were $30 I might buy one myself but $52 is too much for me.

Anyway, Manafont has lots of AA torches. Most are 3 mode like mine ( H-M-strobe ) or 5-mode ( H-M-L-strobe-sos ) Most are in the $20 range ( USD ).


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> strobe strobe strobe strobe


:madman::madmax::nono::skep::incazzato:

I said please even Cat


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

znomit said:


> :madman::madmax::nono::skep::incazzato:
> 
> I said please even Cat


:arf:........OH! I almost forgot....>  Yezl A1 1xAA 3-mode . rft: 

Of course if you buy one of these the sharpies on the front will make holes in your pockets. Sorry best I could do with such short notice...:devil:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> :arf:........OH! I almost forgot....>  Yezl A1 1xAA 3-mode . rft:
> 
> Of course if you buy one of these the sharpies on the front will make holes in your pockets. Sorry best I could do with such short notice...:devil:


Continued from above...

...Oh dang it! almost forgot this one > Balder SE-1  ( hummm....might be a twisty  )
*The Outdoor store* has a great collection of torches. Most of their stuff looks top notch. The SE-1 looks a little bigger than the Ultrafire AA torch I have but it is a true 3-mode. I like the removable clip. That would clip on your pocket right nice. I have an XM-L 18650 torch with one of those clips which I also use for work ( if I need more output ). Looking over the stuff from The Outdoor store I might just have to get me one of those nice AA torches. Their stuff looks so much better than the cheap Ultrafire stuff. :thumbsup:


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

*LXP XML T6 torch*

_For the bars I thought this looks to be an excellent torch ( LXP XM-L T6 ). Very nice build and you get to order the driver, led tint, and mode configuration ( 2, 3 or five ) of your choice. It doesn't get better than that. If I was starting over I would consider buying one of these. If it were me I'd get the driver with the highest output. The torch body looks robust enough to handle the heat. _ from cat-man-do (earlier post)

I bought this torch: The host is well machined with clean threads and double o-rings. No o-ring sealing the lens under the screw on bezel though.
My choice was the neutral white with 850 lumen output. The reflector was a mirror finish, would have preferred an orange peel type, as was advertised.
Intense hotspot in the centre of the beam, not much flood, throw not great compared to my other Cree XM-L torches. The tint is good(for me) but the lumens seem overrated (subjectively.
There are rings around the outside of the beam.
I will not use this torch as a bar mount, the wife has taken it on nighttime runs rather.


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## pabcor (Aug 25, 2011)

I like that 

ultrafire-c2-t60-cree-xm-lt6-3-mode-1200-lumen


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

goatman said:


> I bought this torch: > Link  < The host is well machined with clean threads and double o-rings. No o-ring sealing the lens under the screw on bezel though.
> My choice was the neutral white with 850 lumen output. The reflector was a mirror finish, would have preferred an orange peel type, as was advertised.
> Intense hotspot in the centre of the beam, not much flood, throw not great compared to my other Cree XM-L torches. The tint is good(for me) but the lumens seem overrated (subjectively.
> There are rings around the outside of the beam.
> I will not use this torch as a bar mount, the wife has taken it on nighttime runs rather.


Wow, I'm surprised to hear you didn't like it. I see no mention on the product description as it having an OP reflector. The one reviewer claimed the torch had a flood like beam pattern. You said the beam pattern had rings. That's not completely unusual. I have more than a couple torches that have slight rings in the beam pattern ( when viewed on a wall ) but in actual use the rings are imperceivable. Conversely I have a couple flood to throw torches where the ring patterns are just Gawd awful. Anyway you can show a photo of the beam pattern? ( a wall shot will do ) Can you do a tail cap current measurement? What batteries are you using?


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## NiteFighter (Aug 23, 2012)

I like NiteFighter F30C too much!


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Wow, I'm surprised to hear you didn't like it. I see no mention on the product description as it having an OP reflector. The one reviewer claimed the torch had a flood like beam pattern. You said the beam pattern had rings. That's not completely unusual. I have more than a couple torches that have slight rings in the beam pattern ( when viewed on a wall ) but in actual use the rings are imperceivable. Conversely I have a couple flood to throw torches where the ring patterns are just Gawd awful. Anyway you can show a photo of the beam pattern? ( a wall shot will do ) Can you do a tail cap current measurement? What batteries are you using?


The torch is supposed to come with an OP reflector, the reflector supplied is a mirror finish, and quite deep for a torch of this size.
The beam pattern has an intense central hotspot, good throw but not much flood. I compared this to a 501b host with Cree XML bin as well as MTE SF 15 host with Cree XML bin (original was an SSC P7)
The rings are not really an issue, they are visible when shining the beam further down the track, probably caused by the prominent silver crown (screw on bezel)
I used an intl-outdoor.com Panasonic 3100mAh charged using a WP XTAR charger . It drew about 2.821amps.
The light colour is more neutral/yellow. This is an advantage as the human eye can pick up more detail in that colour spectrum at that brightness.
I prefer a wider flood with less of a hotspot for my bar torch.
This torch could possibly work as a helmet mount.


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## thestickfigures (Sep 2, 2012)

Looks like the Ultrafire 501B is a good deal and I'm about to put in an order. Manafont the ideal seller here? What battery, mount, charger do I need (and which retailer for those as well)?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

thestickfigures said:


> Looks like the Ultrafire 501B is a good deal and I'm about to put in an order. Manafont the ideal seller here? What battery, mount, charger do I need (and which retailer for those as well)?


Yes, Manafont is a good place to order from. I don't like their selection of 18650 cells though. Mostly because they are rebranded. The Marsfire 2600's might be a good bet. At $11 for two not a bad place to start from. Best to order most of the stuff from one place if you can as it make's things much more simple. ( *If you have a question about a Manafont product you can e-mail them for more information before buying ) Later on you might want to order better batteries like the Panasonics. Button top cells work best in the 501B but the Panasonics I have are flat top. I can get the flat top cells to work in the 501B but I have to fiddle with the torch head a bit to get it to work. Once the battery makes contact it works great and is brighter than when used with any other off brand cell I have.

I use this mount for the bars and found it to be rock solid but I also have this one as well for use on the*road bike. ( *for wider bars )

A bit of advice when it comes to ordering stuff overseas: When it comes to the cheap accessories like batteries, mounts, switch caps , chargers.. etc....order a couple of each in case one breaks or gets lost. Never hurts to have a spare and is better to have a spare than to have to wait six weeks if you need a replacement.

Like I've said before about the 501B...I use mine on the helmet. Drop-in torches sometimes have problems on the bars with intermittent mode changes. I don't use mine on the bars so I really don't know how well it would hold up but I have no problems at all on the helmet. I have more stable torches for the bar that I use as back-ups.


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> I might be able to help but I need to narrow down what it is that you think you want. That means I have to ask some questions:
> 1) Is this for bike only use? If this is just for bike use where do you intend to mount it, bars or helmet?
> 2) Is this for road use , Mt bike trail use or all of the above?
> 3) Which beam type ( flood or spot ) do you prefer?
> ...


Hello Cat-man and all of the rest of the community!  I've just registered this site as i found it on google when searching for recommended torches for bikes. 
I am a newbie (just started biking 2 months ago), but i now need a torch because it is getting darker soon when it is only 6pm here...

So, i did some reading now and was on dx.com site over the past 6 days. Still not decided which torch i need and suits me best. I would like to reply to those questions too and see if you can indicate the right one for me, if you don't mind 
Just before starting to reply, please note i dont intend to use it on complete dark places (into the woods) neither want to blind people and drivers while riding in the city.

Here it goes:

10 - Around 25$ for the bars and around 15$ for the helmet (if needed)
1 - Bike only, bars. I could use the setup helmet+bars if you think it is better for my purpose.
2 - Mainly road use and some off-road, but nothing like complete darkness and alone in to the woods.  Also, in MT bike trails, i don't intend to go that fast at night, if i do go into those kind of places, i will go for a slow ride...
3 - This is the important one. I need a wide beam (flood, right?) to illuminate my path when riding. If needed, the tighter beam would be used for closer objects or just pointed to the pavement. But that is my problem: i don't know if i need this.
4 - Don't know :\ I can't tell you if 100, 200 or 500 lumen is what i need. That is where i need help too. The 900 lumen of DX seems to be pretty high and, as i said, i don't want to blind people and drivers, so&#8230;please advice 
5 - Multi-mode is always good. As i don't know how much lumen i would need, i would like to properly adjust the levels (H-L-M) if possible. It would also help me in different terrains&#8230; So, 3 or 5 modes. More modes would be better for me as I'm still unsure what i need, right?
6 - The strobe and SOS are not really important.
7 - Well, i do have 6 new AA bought on DX (not so sure about their quality, though); 4 of them are 2000mAh and the other 2 are 2300mAh. The 18650 are great, but that would mean i would have to spend some more on a charger and batteries. It would be easier for me to go with AA and some spare on my pack. Could be AAA too, i just need to get good ones&#8230;
8 - 3h max, normally 1.5h. But, again, we never know&#8230;i could go on a 6h ride and with that i would probably need a lot of spare AA or AAA&#8230;
9 - Not really, it doesn't need to be that small at all. The smaller the better, but that is not the most important thing here.

Thank you so much for your help Cat-man. Take your time, i don't need the torch that soon. 

One more note: I'm from Portugal, so online stores providing free worldwide shipping are preferred.

Glad i found this forum - it looks great!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

PedroDank said:


> ...Just before starting to reply, please note i dont intend to use it on complete dark places (into the woods) neither want to blind people and drivers while riding in the city.
> 
> Here it goes:
> 
> ...


Pedro, no problem I will try to help.

When I first put the list up it was to help people who wanted to do their own shopping. 
I've looked over what you wrote and for the amount of money you're willing to spend you are going to have to make some tough choices.

First I want to say I really don't like to recommend torches any more unless they are for short term or for shorter rides. With bikes lights being as inexpensive as they are today it just doesn't make sense to ride with a torch unless you just want a self-contained light source that is easy to carry.

With this said, I will make some suggestions ( starting with the best and working my way down ):

1) Consolidate your money ( $40 USD ) and buy a cheap XML clone bike lamp. I recommend this one from Manafont. This lamp has three modes ( H-M-L ) with the strobe on a separate sub-menu ( push and hold ). Most cheap clones don't offer this same mode set-up. With others you have to cycle through strobe and off, not the best way to go. For an extra $4.70 it is worth the money and within your price range. This lamp should serve *your intended riding style very well. Batteries/charger are included and shipping is free. Mount this on the handlebars and off you go.

2) This XM-L based torch ( from D/X ) might be just what you're looking for. It runs off of three AA batteries. It has various modes so you can use whatever output mode you wish to extend run time. Find a good bar mount and this torch should serve you very well. The price is within your limit. If you want to use AA's and want a really bright light this is your ticket. ( * this bar mount should hold this torch for general road use without problem. It is designed for larger torches )

3) You can always buy and use two of the cheaper AA torches on the bars. The smaller/cheaper AA torches tend not to be real bright and have much more narrower beam patterns. I'm not saying they can't work but if you chose to do so I would recommend using two so the combined beam pattern is wider. Since there are so many of these style torches I really can't recommend just one as there are thousands to chose from..

What ever you chose, do yourself a favor and carry a back-up. Also buy a cheap red rear light if you're going to be riding on the road.


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

That was great Cat-man-do!

I think the 1st one is too expensive and i can see it is not quite waterproof and too brighter for my needs, i guess... 
The second one i liked.  I've actually bookmarked that one before but totally lost track of it as i saw dozens of torches on the same day... But i really like it. It is not expensive, bright enough and somewhat wide beam and i already have 12 AA batteries almost like new (6 of them new, the other 6 not so much, but almost just as new), so i can carry another 6 in my bag if im going for longer riders (much unlikely); but at least i will carry another 3 for sure. 
This is a pic from one of the buyers of that torch: pichost.biz/viewer.php?id=viu1345015656i.JPG  I think it looks good enough for me!
About the holder, i ordered this one: universal-adjustable-bicycle-mount-for-flashlights-2cm-4cm-diameter  from DX 2 weeks ago so it should probably fit as it is ready for flashlights with 4cm diameter and that one has 3.5cm.

So...i will probably get this one!  
The red rear lights, i have one from DX too with 2 red leds and it is quite alright. This is what i have: 2-LED 3-Mode White + Red Light Fog Bicycle Lights - Black (Pair/2*CR2032) (sorry, can't post more than 1 link as i don't have 10 posts yet...) I use one in the front as i ride in cities when i still have a bit of sun light or at lease some light from the street. Now that i'm going with a front bike light, i will probably put the other white one in the back of the bike in constant mode + the red one slownly blinking. I think it will do the job just fine. If it doesn't i can always get another pair of that combination and use 2 in the back + 2 white in the front and shut down the flashlight to save batteries if riding in places with good amount of street light.

What do you think?

Thanks, again! :thumbsup:


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

Hm, i've just checked a video with that flashlight and the mount i already ordered some weeks ago and i really dont liked the combination. The flashlight has that beam i dont like (strong in the center only) and the mount doesnt hold it properly so the light will distract me.
Here is the video i watched: youtube. com/watch?v=FMsiowknj-0
Im looking for something like that one you posted from Manafont (that one is really famous), but i would like it to be more portable...it seems i have to strap the batteries on my bike frame? Is it waterproof? Is it easy to remove from bike (so people can't steal it)?

I don't mind pay a bit more if i need to, but i want to make sure i get a good light from my bike. That one really looks good, but as i said, i think i prefer something more portable... Also, that light would blind pedestrians and drivers driving towards me right? That is something i don't want too... 
I'm looking for videos of that torch on youtube but i can't find it. Is it the equal to DX's (this one, for example dx.com/p/t6-xml-t6-3-mode-1200-lumen-white-led-bike-light-with-battery-pack-set-94182?item=8) ?

EDIT: Just found out this site  lumicycle.com/Pages/CMS.aspx?MIS=18 and it seems the _Halogen 20 Watt 20° Mid_ choice is the one i need. I must find something like that... Can't i achieve this using another type of reflector?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

PedroDank said:


> Hm, i've just checked a video with that flashlight and the mount i already ordered some weeks ago and i really dont liked the combination. The flashlight has that beam i dont like (strong in the center only) and the mount doesnt hold it properly so the light will distract me.
> Here is the video i watched: youtube. com/watch?v=FMsiowknj-0
> Im looking for something like that one you posted from Manafont (that one is really famous), but i would like it to be more portable...it seems i have to strap the batteries on my bike frame? Is it waterproof? Is it easy to remove from bike (so people can't steal it)?
> 
> ...


Yeah, the video does make the torch look bad. The video though was done in an urban environment with lots of ambient light around. With all the ambient light from the street lights it was really hard to see the spill from the video. This is why I don't like videos. That said the torch did look to have a very intense spot. That's the thing about torches, most do have a narrow beam pattern. Some more narrow than most. This one does look very narrow.

When you get the torch if you find the beam too narrow you could widen the beam pattern if you change the front lens. A lightly frosted lens should widen the beam pattern. In a pinch you can use some semi-translucent plastic and make yourself a dispersion lens.

As for the light bouncing around in the video: Yes, those rubber/Velcro mounts will do that on rough terrain. Since the 3 x AA torch is bigger than most I can't guarantee that the one I linked to will work any better on terrain that rough. Should be fine for general road use though.

Pedro, the real issue here is your expectations. For the kind of light you want for the price you are willing to pay, you really don't have a lot of choices. If you wanted a torch that used 18650 cells you could be more picky but even then you still might not be satisfied with the beam pattern.


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

Yeah i understand all that... My new maximum is now 50$ eheh. Should i get the one you posted from Manafont? It is pretty much like those magicshine from DX, right? Or even this one dx.com/p/p7-water-resistant-ssc-p7-3-mode-1200-lumen-white-led-bike-light-with-battery-pack-set-82734?item=2 Do you honestly think that that one is the right one for me? I can always use it in medium or low, so i dont end up blinding people. I've decided to spend some more because with my previous budget, i know i would end up with a torch setup i wouldn't like. 
So, things to avoid: shaking of the light, narrow beams and blinding people


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## Infinity123 (Dec 11, 2009)

PedroDank said:


> Yeah i understand all that... My new maximum is now 50$ eheh.


It sounds to me, like it´s really a bike light you want, and not a torch. I´m using a 3x XM-L clone bike light with a cap to prevent blinding people. It complies pretty much with all your wishes (except the AA batteries), and it´s a great light for the money.
https://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/new-clone-3-x-xml-t-6-49-88-shipped-814616.html


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

Thanks for the reply Infinity123! I'm not a native English speaker so i was a bit confused with the termos "torch" and simply "bike light". I think i get it now. 

That bike light () is pretty great. I will reply on the topic you pointed to as i've nwo read the 3 pages and have some questions to ask. But, btw, do you use that 3x XML in the road? Is that why you modded it? I can see that,in the topic you pointed to, someone said we should use this only for mountain biking... So, does your modding solves that problem?


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## Infinity123 (Dec 11, 2009)

PedroDank said:


> But, btw, do you use that 3x XML in the road? Is that why you modded it? I can see that,in the topic you pointed to, someone said we should use this only for mountain biking... So, does your modding solves that problem?


Yes, yes and yes. http://forums.mtbr.com/9786228-post5.html


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

Ehehe thanks 
So, i could i make mine like yours?  What parts did you buy? Do you use the original battery? If so, for how long does this thing run on medium (i guess i wont need the high that much) Cat-man-do said this battery packs sucks and someone else said we should get this action-led-lights.com/collections/accessories/products/2-strap-battery-case. Also, do you ride in the rain?
Thats a lot of questions :\


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## Infinity123 (Dec 11, 2009)

This is a bit OT in this thread. I have answered your questions in the 3x XM-L thread.


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

Sure, thanks.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

PedroDank said:


> ....Cat-man-do said this battery packs sucks and someone else said we should get this action-led-lights.com/collections/accessories/products/2-strap-battery-case. Also, do you ride in the rain?
> Thats a lot of questions :\


There are some translational issues here and so others don't misunderstand, the battery to the 3 x XML lamp is fine. The battery pouch ( or bag ) was what I had a problem with. You can always buy replacements though if something happens to the original.

Pedro, almost none of the Chinese made bike lamps are guaranteed to be waterproof. This doesn't mean they won't work in the rain as most will work fine. However if you plan to ride in the rain I suggest that you buy from one of the vendors that offer their products here on MTBreview. Those vendors will stand behind their product and service the product if something should go wrong. Most of the stuff they offer should work in the rain without problem but if something should fail you will have their warranty and service guarantee. It will cost more money though.

I still think a simple torch ( flashlight ) with a good mount will work fine. If you are willing to buy the 18650 cells and charger ( $5 per cell, $5 for a cheap charger ) there are lots of 18650 type torches to choose from ( and better more stable mounts ). Some are even listed as *waterproof. ( *Those will cost more though ).

I've used torches on the bars for years and have had few problems. Then again I don't ride in the rain very often with just torches.

All said, I still think you are better off with a dedicated bike light as they will give you the best 
_"*bang for the buck _". ( * more features/value for the money you are willing to spend )


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> There are some translational issues here and so others don't misunderstand, the battery to the 3 x XML lamp is fine. The battery pouch ( or bag ) was what I had a problem with. You can always buy replacements though if something happens to the original.
> 
> Pedro, almost none of the Chinese made bike lamps are guaranteed to be waterproof. This doesn't mean they won't work in the rain as most will work fine. However if you plan to ride in the rain I suggest that you buy from one of the vendors that offer their products here on MTBreview. Those vendors will stand behind their product and service the product if something should go wrong. Most of the stuff they offer should work in the rain without problem but if something should fail you will have their warranty and service guarantee. It will cost more money though.
> 
> ...


WHat's the best place to get a replacement pill from Cat? (USA)


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

gticlay said:


> WHat's the best place to get a replacement pill from Cat? (USA)


Gosh I wish I knew the answer to that. The only place I've seen a replacement pill was from "International Outdoor". I think they now call themselves the "Outdoor Store". They only offer one ( XM-L replacement pill ) that is designed to work in a C8 torch host. I bought one and put it in my old SF-15 torch ( C2 host ) and it rocks. I wish there was a place that just sold replacement pills because they do come in different types.


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> There are some translational issues here and so others don't misunderstand, the battery to the 3 x XML lamp is fine. The battery pouch ( or bag ) was what I had a problem with. You can always buy replacements though if something happens to the original.
> 
> Pedro, almost none of the Chinese made bike lamps are guaranteed to be waterproof. This doesn't mean they won't work in the rain as most will work fine. However if you plan to ride in the rain I suggest that you buy from one of the vendors that offer their products here on MTBreview. Those vendors will stand behind their product and service the product if something should go wrong. Most of the stuff they offer should work in the rain without problem but if something should fail you will have their warranty and service guarantee. It will cost more money though.
> 
> ...


I understand that, that is why i asked if i should go with another battery pack  Something like his action-led-lights.com/collections/accessories/products/2-strap-battery-case

I'm very impressed with the beam of the clone 3x XML. I guess that will be my final choice. If it does blind pedestrians and drivers, i will try to minimize it with a cap like the one Infinity123 has. 
I don't ride in the rain, but as winter is approaching and this is a area where it rains a bit almost everyday, i just wanted to know *how* waterproof it is. I wont ride under heavy rain, so, that wount really be a problem. Sealing the battery with plastic should be enough.

So, for a 50$ maximum budget, you still think i should go with one XML Torch instead of that 3x XML bike light? I thought about using 2 18650 torches as well as it has many advantages (if one fails, i still have the other one...with the single 3x XML, i would be dead because i don't have an helmet light...yet.)
The thing is that for 50$ i would have plenty of light in a single bike light with a good beam for road biking with and a somewhat ok battery lifetime. Will i get the same with other torches?
Choices, choices...!

EDIT: I just found one "*1200 Lumen CREE XML T6 LED Bike Bicycle Outdoor Sports Light HeadLight headLamp*" from seller homegarden2012 on eBay and it has nice features such as holding the button for strobe mode and 8800mA (is this possible?!) and...28$ shipped to Portugal.
I think i should go with that one as it is cheaper than the 3x XML and a safer buy as it will be my first bike light. Also, i think i'm going to buy the wide lens.

Is it a good buy? I can't find anything as good and cheaper as this one...but maybe there is...


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## gadgets&gear (Oct 26, 2012)

*FakeFires??*



LiveFreeThenDie said:


> These flashlights are made by the listed manufacturers. But the knock off brands are cheap imitations of quality name brand flashlights like Surefire, Fenix, Jetbeam. The quality of these lights is hit or miss. Many people call DX products Junkfire. I like all of my Junkfire lights! If I ruin them in the rain or if I crash, I can afford to replace them. And as Catmandoo has pointed out, if you buy P60 style lights, you can upgrade the pill as new emitters come out.
> 
> I have to admit, though, that the Dinotte and other name brand bike lights look very fashionable. And I've never seen anyone complain about quality; they are all well made lights.
> 
> ...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

PedroDank said:


> I understand that, that is why i asked if i should go with another battery pack  Something like his action-led-lights.com/collections/accessories/products/2-strap-battery-case
> 
> I'm very impressed with the beam of the clone 3x XML. I guess that will be my final choice. If it does blind pedestrians and drivers, i will try to minimize it with a cap like the one Infinity123 has.
> I don't ride in the rain, but as winter is approaching and this is a area where it rains a bit almost everyday, i just wanted to know *how* waterproof it is. I wont ride under heavy rain, so, that wount really be a problem. Sealing the battery with plastic should be enough.
> ...


Pedro, if you want the 3 x XML light that's been talked about I sure it will work but good luck getting service if something goes wrong with it. When it comes to buying stuff on E-bay you lay your money down and take your chances. As for the battery bag, no big worries there. The one I had was easy to fix. Just buy a roll of 1" wide Velcro and make your own straps.

About the other single XM-L light I mentioned: It won't be as bright or have as wide a beam pattern as the 3 x XML lamp but it will have better mode function. If you want a wider beam you can purchase the wide lens from Action LED and that will work.

The single XML lamp will give you better run times and offer you lower output modes. Either way I don't think you can lose unless the one you buy doesn't work for some reason. 
Now as far as blinding other people: Don't worry about that unless you are riding head-on into traffic, Just change to a lower output mode and/or tilt the lamp down. Otherwise you should be fine. If someone acts like they are mad because your light is so bright they are just mad because they don't have one.


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> Pedro, if you want the 3 x XML light that's been talked about I sure it will work but good luck getting service if something goes wrong with it. When it comes to buying stuff on E-bay you lay your money down and take your chances. As for the battery bag, no big worries there. The one I had was easy to fix. Just buy a roll of 1" wide Velcro and make your own straps.
> 
> About the other single XM-L light I mentioned: It won't be as bright or have as wide a beam pattern as the 3 x XML lamp but it will have better mode function. If you want a wider beam you can purchase the wide lens from Action LED and that will work.
> 
> ...


Thank you.
I understand that the 3x XML has a gret beam pattern, but it is more expensive. I prefer to pay half the price and test the 1x XML 1200Lm i posted above with the wide lens. If it turns out to be insufficient, i can always sell it to a friend and buy the 3x XML. 
With the money i've saved, i can then buy another torch for my helmet as i already have ordered one adaptor. I must have it as a backup as i just can't ride around with a cheap chinese light from eBay...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

PedroDank said:


> Thank you.
> I understand that the 3x XML has a gret beam pattern, but it is more expensive. I prefer to pay half the price and test the 1x XML 1200Lm i posted above with the wide lens. If it turns out to be insufficient, i can always sell it to a friend and buy the 3x XML.
> With the money i've saved, i can then buy another torch for my helmet as i already have ordered one adaptor. I must have it as a backup as i just can't ride around with a cheap chinese light from eBay...


Pedro, I think you are doing the right thing.
You learn fast my friend.


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## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

Eheh, thanks!  Glad you agree.
Really looking forward to start my night riding...


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## marpilli (Feb 8, 2011)

I've been a big fan of this thread and I finally bought a few of the "DX" type flashlights from Meritline to give away as gifts this year.

I took a few photos and beam shots if it would help. I don't intend to use this torch on my bike; but, I may carry it in my pack as a spare.

Cree Q5 LED Flashlight (Flashlight Torch) 3-Mode 280LM The Left-right Rotating Zoom Adjustable Zoom Cree LED Flashlight with Clip, Black

Cree Q5 LED Flashlight Left-right Rotating Zoom Adjustable Torch 3-Mode 280LM White Zoom Convex Lens LED Flashlight 18650 Batteries | Meritline.com

SKU: 188-876-001

There's a rotating ring (green on the three I received) that turns to adjust from spot to flood. It's indexed and has 15 "settings". You can power it by a single 18650 or 3AAA batteries. I put in a freshly charged 18650. I set it to "high" for the photos.

Camera details:
Canon XTi
4 second shutter speed
F-Number F/4
ISO 100
Daylight white balance
Manual focus
18mm focal length

Control:









Setting "1" (full spot):









Setting "5":









Setting "10":









Setting "15" (full flood):









Other photos:


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

Havnt been on this thread for a long time. last time i was here the HF 15 were the lights to get. any thing new and better and brighter? looking to get a few more lights.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

alphaqforever247 said:


> Havnt been on this thread for a long time. * last time i was here the HF 15 were the lights to get.* any thing new and better and brighter? looking to get a few more lights.


I think you are referring to the *SF-15*. The original versions were P-7 D-bin emitters. I converted mine to XM-L just by buying a new pill. Shouldn't be too long before we start to see some new torches using the newer XM-L2 emitters.

Not too much talk about torches anymore. That's because the cheap Chinese bike lights are so inexpensive that it really doesn't make too much sense to run torches...that is of course unless you really want something that is small and self-contained.

I now only use a torch on the helmet and one on the bars to back up my main lamp. Still, with emitters getting brighter running torches as main lights can work just fine.


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> I think you are referring to the *SF-15*. The original versions were P-7 D-bin emitters. I converted mine to XM-L just by buying a new pill. Shouldn't be too long before we start to see some new torches using the newer XM-L2 emitters.
> 
> Not too much talk about torches anymore. That's because the cheap Chinese bike lights are so inexpensive that it really doesn't make too much sense to run torches...that is of course unless you really want something that is small and self-contained.
> 
> I now only use a torch on the helmet and one on the bars to back up my main lamp. Still, with emitters getting brighter running torches as main lights can work just fine.


yeah sorry the sf-15. how does the the new xm-l2 emitters do against the p7. is it a decent upgrade over them? i did look at alot of the bike lights and last time the magic shine was the one to get for around 90 dollars. now they have some cree type lights now from a single cree to muliple crees ranging form like 25 to 70 dollars which is way cheaper. how are these lights vs the old p7 magicshine bike light i got years ago. does going from 1 cree to lets say 4 really make a huge difference?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

alphaqforever247 said:


> yeah sorry the sf-15. how does the the new xm-l2 emitters do against the p7. is it a decent upgrade over them? i did look at alot of the bike lights and last time the magic shine was the one to get for around 90 dollars. now they have some cree type lights now from a single cree to muliple crees ranging form like 25 to 70 dollars which is way cheaper. how are these lights vs the old p7 magicshine bike light i got years ago. does going from 1 cree to lets say 4 really make a huge difference?


If you have the original SF-15 with P7-D emitter you have a really nice torch which is quite bright and comparable to the XM-L's. The SF-15 with P7 has a nice beam pattern for the bars ( as torches go ).

Prices have come down for bike lights over the past couple years. Single emitter lamps can be had for a song. The current 3 and 4 ( tri and quad ) XM-L set-ups being sold are decent values as long as you have a good battery. D/X sells these lamps now as " light head only" which is the way to go. You then buy a battery with enough capacity to power the lamp for the run time that you need. The "battery thread" is a good place to start for this. Yes, having a tri or quad set-up on the bars makes a huge difference as the beam pattern is so much better than a single emitter ( for mountain biking in general )


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## alphaqforever247 (Jun 1, 2009)

Thanks cat man do!



Cat-man-do said:


> If you have the original SF-15 with P7-D emitter you have a really nice torch which is quite bright and comparable to the XM-L's. The SF-15 with P7 has a nice beam pattern for the bars ( as torches go ).
> 
> Prices have come down for bike lights over the past couple years. Single emitter lamps can be had for a song. The current 3 and 4 ( tri and quad ) XM-L set-ups being sold are decent values as long as you have a good battery. D/X sells these lamps now as " light head only" which is the way to go. You then buy a battery with enough capacity to power the lamp for the run time that you need. The "battery thread" is a good place to start for this. Yes, having a tri or quad set-up on the bars makes a huge difference as the beam pattern is so much better than a single emitter ( for mountain biking in general )


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## ImaFred (May 16, 2009)

Cat-man-do,(tried to pm u, but ur full)

You seem to be the man for lighting expertise around this forum. ? for ya...
Ive been getting into bikepacking and need a head/bar light combo that does four things; 
1. runs off preferably aa/aaa as recharging wont be possible all the time even with solar options.
2. Long battery run times
3. last but certainly not least would be weight, as I gotta pedal it all up hill efficiantly
4. Can double as camp/work light

what would you recommend? 

TIA,
Bryan M.


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