# I'm dissatisfied with the 16" kids bikes available.



## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

I know there are great kids bikes avaiable out there. Lil'shredders are amazing if you have the cash to drop, but other than that they all seem to be offering very little for the money.
Complaints:
The Specialized hotrock 16 has an oversized bb and one piece crank just like a princess bike, no brake bosses, bmx geo, and uses a coaster brake, and still costs over $200. Basically a walmart bike as far as tech goes, but more expensive.
The trek Superfly 16 has slightly better geo and uses the bb bracket standard of a modern bike, but still fails on brakes.
The Spawn Banshee actually offers all the basics you would expect on a 15 year old bike (correct sizing, uses standards from this century, and okay geo) but charges you as if all of this stuff was amazing and they have to cover the costs of development.
Is there anything I have overlooked or should i just buy an old steel frame adult bike and cut it down to my kids size?


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## Chad_M (Jul 11, 2013)

In reality, only the adults seem to care what bikes are made of. Kids, especially on sizes 12 and 16 I don't think really care about cranks or brake performance.


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## airwreck (Dec 31, 2003)

We bought our kid the 14" Isla bike. He loved it and ripped on it. Then someone gave us their old Hotrock 16 and now he won't touch the Isla but he still rides his old run bike. He can't wait to get on the 20 now. All he knows is bigger wheels are faster.

I'd love to get him on a nice bike again with hand brakes but will wait. I'm drooling over those Turn3 bmx bikes. Runs 18" or 20" wheels and they are small enough with 18's for 3 year olds to ride. Big bucks though.


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

My daughter is tearing it up on a Murray Rockit 16", but she is limited by it. It is heavy, the top tube is short, the bar is really high, the head angle steep, and the bb is too high.
Plus it has a u-brake and coaster, which makes it sketchy on bumby descents since back pedaling locks the wheel so she can't adjust for steepness.


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## neacail (May 18, 2013)

I bought my little guy a 16", Aluminum, Norco Scorpion:

https://www.norco.com/bikes/youth/16-coaster/scorpion-aluminum/

I think it is awesome.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Soooo if a 16" Hotrock is like $240, and a Spawn Banshee that is wayyyy nicer is $395, what do you expect to get and for how much? 

An Islabike CNOC 16 is $270. I'd say that's about as reasonable a price as one could ask for for that quality. 

I dunno, we went Spawn. Fits 2.4"'s no problem and is just bad ass for a 16" bike. Also: is as nice as a $400 adult bike. And they did have to develop all their stuff.


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

figuring out geo takes development, but all the tech they use has been around since the late nineties. Simple hard tail with threadless headset and in qr drop outs.
For the small companies I get the high price. They have a lot of overhead, but there is no excuse for a company that has the means to do a run of production cheaply. 
Except I do get it. Companies use huge mark ups on some side products to allow mark downs on more popular items. I am just irate since the obscene markup is to something I want.
Still, considering the only difference between the hotrock and the huffy rockit is geo and the threadless headset, it is frustrating that the hotrock costs almost $200 more.


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

I would pay $150 for a rigid 16" MTB with modern bb shell diameter and length, a 3 piece crank, and a low slung geo. Pretty simple stuff.


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## chris87114 (Mar 26, 2004)

What do you want or expect? What are you looking for?

Have you looked at the cleary hedgehog?


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

chris87114 said:


> What do you want or expect? What are you looking for?
> 
> Have you looked at the cleary hedgehog?


Oooh, I forgot the Cleary.

To the OP, the Hotrock is indeed overpriced. Say what you will about the Spawn, Isla, and Cleary, but they'll easily be resold for 50-60% of new no problem, even after two years ownership. Can't say that about the Hotrock, Trek, etc. not to mention Huffys and such. So if you look at it that way, after you sell a boutique 16" when done with it, you'll have basically paid what you think one of these bikes should cost to begin with.


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

The hedgehog looks like the best bike for the money.
I will get that for my girls.
I guess one brand does it right for. Reasonable price. Weird how more can't figure it out.


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

Dissatisfaction comes from expectation which comes from personal experience/preference.
Bear in mind the majority on this thread ride themselves and I would bet very few of us ride a Walmart special.
Why? Because we ride technical trails which the Walmart either wouldn't stand upto or because we've tried/seen something better and progressed, or have invested money into our hobby.

When it comes to Kids bikes the reality is they grow fast and the number of people who would pay high prices for high quality is small.
Add to this that there isn't that many kids have the skills/development opertunity to use high quality bike fully and you can see why the spec/designs are where they are. They also have a short life for the child in question is 2-3yrs max.

Quality parts are not cheap even if bought at trade prices and when you add that to the equation manufacturers have to make decisions about do they build a bike that's going to retail at a high quality/price and sell a handful or build low spec/price and sell many. Most go for high volume. Why do you think some of the small quality bikes that where out there have been pulled. 

We all praise Lil shredder but struggle to justify the price to ourselves.
If you price up the component list of these bikes you'll see that they potentially are not making much profit and the volume of sales will be low due to the specialist nature.

The component manufacturers have the same problem which is why there isn't much available, prices are high, and development is slow.

We'd all like something better for our kids and ourselves but at the end of the day is always going to be a compromise.

Find something that ticks most of the boxes, buy it 2nd hand, upgrade it, try and choose components that can be progressed to the next bike, remember it's not you that is riding it and the child probably cares more about the colour than the components/price/weight.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Chad_M said:


> In reality, only the adults seem to care what bikes are made of. Kids, especially on sizes 12 and 16 I don't think really care about cranks or brake performance.


Agree - this is definitely the case for the vast majority of kids.


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## jplonks (Apr 15, 2013)

Regarding prices, I tend to side with grifter18: Just because parts are smaller doesn't mean they are cheaper. Hence it is hard to offer a kid's bike with good shifter, brakes, wheels etc. for significantly less than a comparable adult's bike.

I can however relate to the dissatisfaction of taletotell if it is directed at the established big bike companies like trek and specialized; you would think that they have the resources and the scale to produce short and llight cranks, brake levers that fit small hands, etc. That doesn't seem to happen or at least they are not willing to do that in a (higher end) market segment where they won't sell a lot of these bikes. 
If they got kids and parents hooked early, they could generate consumer loyalty, build their brand, etc. They don't seem to see that. 
But hey, these are Trek's problems, not mine. We own Islabikes in 14", 16" and 20" and are quite happy with them. I think they are also value for money; I paid 1000 Euros for the bike that I use for my daily commute (which is also my kid's daily commute of 8k one way) and I would feel kind of bad to see where I can save 10 bucks on the bike that my kid has to ride.

BTW, the situation - big brands not really serving the higher end of the market - is quite similar over here in Germany; the biggish (in Germany) companies like Stevens, Focus, Cube and so on do offer kid's bikes, but are targeting the lower end of the market. With Islabikes focusing on the UK and the US, a bunch of smallish companies are trying to target the higher end of the kids bike market:
KANIABIKES-Produktübesrsicht
WOOM Das bessere Kinderrad
16 Zoll ab 5,7 kg - KUbikes - GROSSE QUALITÄT FÜR KLEINE BIKER
Bikes - Supurb

We'll see how many of those will survive in the long term, but it is reassuring to see that the number of options keeps increasing.

And last but not least: Value for money wise, I think the Cleary Hedgehog (and the Islabikes Cnoc 16") seems to beat the Spawn Banshee pretty clearly - or am I missing anything?


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

^ when I bought my Banshee, the Cleary didn't exist and Isla Cnoc had a rear coaster brake. 

Now that the Cleary is out, yes, Spawn needs to reconsider their pricing methinks. We still love ours tho.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Knowing what I know how vs a few months ago, I wouldn't buy a Hotrock new, only used (and I did -- bought used 16" ones). 

What about a Redline Pitboss? I got a used one for $150. Freewheel, v-brakes, light. Kid across the street, found him a used one for $130.


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## CaRaBeeN (Mar 24, 2012)

I'm seriously thinking to try Commencal Ramones 16"
Ramones 16 | Commencal Kids 2015
The only thing keeps preventing me to place order yet is weight -> 18.7 lbs


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

It seems like they could have dropped some weight in the spokes.
I found some 16" mag bmx wheels on amazon, but is hard to say if they would be lighter or not.


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

I heard somewhere that commencal had a kids bike with replaceable dropouts so you could go from 20 to 24 or something along those lines. That sounds like a good step in a few years.


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

I agree with jplonks.

If you look at the Savage Bike offerings I can see why they are a little more expensive. They do have slightly higher quality parts.

Also, I just don't understand why the big players like Specialized, Trek, ETc. can get factories in Asia to produce parts for small people (kids) in appropriate quantities at decent prices. When you look at the incredible diversity of stuff that Asian factories can produce I just don't understand why Trek or Specialized cant work with a manufacturer over there to produce a decent light weight small crank, small brake lever, etc. Those two items in particular seem to be non existent.


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

The pittboss is pretty sweet, except bmx geo is a lot harder for a kid to ride. They tend to be taller than they need to be since they have such a short wheel base. Basically a kid on the pittboss should be on a 20" MTB.


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## goldenaustin (May 30, 2011)

Our 16" bike of choice was the Hotrock 16, used for course for around $75. When my kids started riding around 3-4, they weren't prodigies on bikes like on some of these youtube videos, so the Hotrock was perfect for them as they were basic, low, sturdy, and very lightweight relatively speaking. What was great about getting them used for such a low price is that they have great resale value, so even after using them a year or two (kids grow fast), we'd easily get close to our money back.

With that said, if my kids were shredders at 3-4, then I'd totally splurge for a LIL Shredder bike. Thankfully for my wallet, they weren't, but riding around with them on their Hotrocks starting at 3, was still priceless.

My recommendation is to keep it simple at the 16" size, and just start planning ahead on a 20"/24" project if you have that wrenching urge.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

melchionda said:


> When you look at the incredible diversity of stuff that Asian factories can produce I just don't understand why Trek or Specialized cant work with a manufacturer over there to produce a decent light weight small crank, small brake lever, etc. Those two items in particular seem to be non existent.


This is what Spawn did, and if they did it I don't see why the larger companies can't.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

We also have Frog Bikes in the UK Bikes | Frog Bikes


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

taletotell said:


> I heard somewhere that commencal had a kids bike with replaceable dropouts so you could go from 20 to 24 or something along those lines. That sounds like a good step in a few years.


I have a ramones 20 as far as I know it is not upgradeable in wheel size, the lil'shredder is though... we have a banshee as well, my kids both love it, kids are so lucky they have options at all!


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

I looked again. Commencal has some incredible bikes (a dh bike on par with a Lil shredder) but yeah I couldn't find where I heard the had changeable dropouts. A shame really.


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

There's a couple on the market now that allow a wheel size change but I don't think Commencal are doing it. Replaceable dropouts yes but it's for changing from sible to multi speed.
It's a great idea but I'm not sure it mill catch on with main players as they will loose revenue as a result.


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

taletotell said:


> I looked again. Commencal has some incredible bikes (a dh bike on par with a Lil shredder) but yeah I couldn't find where I heard the had changeable dropouts. A shame really.


It is not on par with the lil'shredder, it only comes as a single speed, which makes it very difficult for the kids to get going on anything steeper then flat ground, I'm currently getting the gear together to make my son's bike a 9 speed so we can do more versatile riding


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

The Commencal Supreme 20" & 24" come with replaceable rear dropouts for either a fixed or geared back end.
I'm just finishing a 20" build with 1x10 speed.
Sweet bike. Not cheap but it can be built up to a better, lighter spec than they sell the full bike for and for less.

The Ramones has fixed dropouts the rear dropouts But they will take an aftermarket hanger and deraileur if needed.


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## Vorar (Oct 23, 2010)

The Commencal Ramones 20 has been great for my son. At 6 years old he didn't need to fool around with a derailleur and the Ramones gearing is perfect. Also remember a derailleur hanging in off a 20inch wheeled bike only has a couple inches of clearance off the ground. Of course my son rides with me and I am more inclined to riding downhill and flow trails than pedaling up single track. The bike rides great at: Whistler, Burlington Bike Park, and Galbraith. The geometry is excellent and the brakes last all weekend on whilster with out killing his hands. What to upgrade?-The handle bar is made of solid lead pipe. Replaced with carbon XC bar and much better. Pedals Grips done.





















My 4year old rides a spawn banshee. But if I knew about the 16 inch Ramones I would have got it. The Banshee is overall good but many annoying issues too.: Gearing is way to low, he spins like crazy. Seat tube had to be reamed out. Tires were road/cruiser tires. Brake levers are bigger than on my bikes. A set of mini BMX levers would be much more appropriate here. Wonky geo w/steap headangle and short cockpit. The Banshee was smaller than his 16" hotrock so for use the sizing was not to good. The banshee feels set up for a kid just learning to tool around on a flat road(obviosly makes sense) Mostly the good out weighs the bad, but we are eagerly waiting for him to out grown the spawn.


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## kabayan (Oct 25, 2004)

Because of the bmx infrastructure, kids are on carbon frames, carbon forks, carbon rims, carbon bars, titanium bbs, hollowed hubs, instant engagement, machined brakes and levers and stems, kevlar tires etc. It's not uncommon to see a used bike for 5-6yo for $500.
When NICA or someone figures out a way to go even younger than middle school racing (and bragging rights are on the table :thumbsup:), you'll see more bikes being offered in the thousands much like you can't turn without bumping into an Sworks bike at high school races. 

At least that's what my Magic 8 ball said .


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

I feel like cleary has it figured out for my market niche, though the more I look the more I think waiting and getting a 20" makes more sense. There is just more variety and you can actually find used bikes worth buying.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Just realised in the UK we have many more bikes available (I think)

As well as Islabikes, we have Frog Bikes, Hoy Bikes, Dawes Academy range, and I think Pinnacle bikes are getting there too.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Meant to say our regional mtb kids dirt races have categories from Under 6 upwards. Mine youngest son did his first race when he was 2, and won his first Under 6 race recently at the grand old age of 3!


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

Do the British just teach their kids to ride sooner or something?
Here it is pretty much Lil shredders, Cleary, and whatever junk the big companies throw our way. Even Commencal is pretty uncommon here.
That said, we can buy bikes from across the pond, but that means we can't put our kids on it and get an idea if it is what we want.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

I think there are more and more kids riding earlier due to balance bikes, and the bike companies are just starting to catch up.

Having said that, there isn't anything on the market that I would like specifically for my almost 4 year old. A 16" Lil Shredder is pretty much all that fits the bill as he shreds a bit harder than most 3 year olds!


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

In the Uk, Balance bikes have had a big impact and there are now regular events organised by Stryder and even a National Competitions. Most of the UK velodromes have teaching sessions on the BMX courses for supervised learning and this progresses the kids into bmx.

Add to this the British Cycling & SKY Cycling advertising at the Olympics and Tour D'France and the cycle industry realises there is a big market to tap into in the UK.
In addition to this the UK economy isn't doing too bad so theres a good platform for growth. 
Cycling is now getting close to Football in terms of a regular participation sport thanks to this focus. The only thing thats slowing it down is a lack of tracks (most need a car to get to) and the cost of the gear. This is slowly being addressed by Councils and National lottery funding programmes which means more good places to ride.

This means that UK kids are getting exposure to cycling more and more and if they start younger they progress faster. This in turn means more bikes will be developed and will be available. 
Theres still the cheapo Walmart brands out there but sponsors such as Chris Boardman are now bringing better spec'd bikes through and this also has the added impact of improving all the specs.
Prices for good quality is still high but people who ride are prepared to invest in their kids and the hobby which further supports the growth and development.
Also don't forget the UK is a relatively small country so everything is a bit nearer


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Comencal looks like a relatively good deal at 16 inches for under $300...

Commencal Ramones 16 2015

Can't find weights, but good substrate with aluminum frames and V brakes.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

In the U.S., our gov't is the reason we can't have nice things, and everything is designed to protect the Lowest Common Moron.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

cakemonster said:


> Comencal looks like a relatively good deal at 16 inches for under $300...
> 
> Commencal Ramones 16 2015
> 
> Can't find weights, but good substrate with aluminum frames and V brakes.


I believe they are available in the US next month based on the countdown. Even if a little heavy the substrate of a aluminum 14 and 16 with V brake bosses and standard parts (euro BB, 1 1/8 threadless headset, 25.4 bars, 27.2 seatpost) makes it a decent deal, and highly upgradeable if the frame and fork are decent.

Appears shipping $50 though which is kinda brutal.

And nice to support the Mom and Pop folks like Spawn and Lil Shredder.


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## CaRaBeeN (Mar 24, 2012)

cakemonster said:


> Comencal looks like a relatively good deal at 16 inches for under $300...
> 
> Commencal Ramones 16 2015
> 
> Can't find weights, but good substrate with aluminum frames and V brakes.


I've mentioned earlier it's 8.5kg/18.7lbs


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

CaRaBeeN said:


> I've mentioned earlier it's 8.5kg/18.7lbs


Thank you. Know what weighs it down relative to spawn or pit boss etc?

Have weights on 14?


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

If you contact them they will do a deal on shipping.
20" Supreme frame is very good quality so assume Ramones to be no different.
Quite a bit of weight can be lost off factory build if you through a little cash at it.
Usual culprits (wheels/Tyres/tubes/bars/stem) 
Alternatively you may be able to pick up a 13 or 14 model cheaper if you shop around.


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## Vorar (Oct 23, 2010)

cakemonster said:


> I believe they are available in the US next month based on the countdown. Even if a little heavy the substrate of a aluminum 14 and 16 with V brake bosses and standard parts (euro BB, 1 1/8 threadless headset, 25.4 bars, 27.2 seatpost) makes it a decent deal, and highly upgradeable if the frame and fork are decent.
> 
> Appears shipping $50 though which is kinda brutal.
> 
> And nice to support the Mom and Pop folks like Spawn and Lil Shredder.


I want to give you guys a heads up with a wink and a nod. When you order Commencal you do it through the US distributor located in Las Vegas. They were willing to work with me on price. In the end I purchased my sons bike for less than retail....shipping and tax included. Dealing with them was a pleasure and I look forward to the next time I can buy a bike from them.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

cakemonster said:


> Thank you. Know what weighs it down relative to spawn or pit boss etc?
> 
> Have weights on 14?


Just weighed my Pit Boss, it's 14.8 lbs. with 115mm Sinz cranks.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Asked for weights from Commencal, look reasonable except question the 14's true weight (if really that light pretty sweet).

Aluminum or steel fork? Steel
Aluminum or steel cranks? Steel on Ramones 14, 16 and Aluminium on Ramones 20
Standard euro square taper bottom bracket? Euro BB Square Taper 
- Ramones Walkbike 12 : 4,5 kg / 10lbs
- Ramones Walkbike 14 : 5,10 kg / 11.25lbs 
- Ramones 16 : 8,50 Kg / 18.7lbs
- Ramones 20 : 8,50 Kg / 18.7lbs
- Ramones 24 : 11,00 Kg / 24.25lbs


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

Weights sound about right.
Just be careful what spec these are for as when I looked I found versions with & without front suspension depending on year and country.
2014 models seemed to use other providers parts, 2015 a lot of the parts are in house branded.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Vorar said:


> The Commencal Ramones 20 has been great for my son. At 6 years old he didn't need to fool around with a derailleur and the Ramones gearing is perfect. Also remember a derailleur hanging in off a 20inch wheeled bike only has a couple inches of clearance off the ground. Of course my son rides with me and I am more inclined to riding downhill and flow trails than pedaling up single track. The bike rides great at: Whistler, Burlington Bike Park, and Galbraith. The geometry is excellent and the brakes last all weekend on whilster with out killing his hands. What to upgrade?-The handle bar is made of solid lead pipe. Replaced with carbon XC bar and much better. Pedals Grips done.
> 
> View attachment 934613
> View attachment 934624
> ...


What version is that? I don't see a 20 model this year with no deraileur, disks, and suspension. Did you just convert it to a single speed?

My ideal would be disks, no suspension, single speed, but removeable/add to derailleur hanger for the future. I don't see disk tabs on their current 20 inch single speed offering.

Commencal Ramones 20 2015

Horizontal dropouts, no disk

Commencal Meta HT 20 2015

Vertical dropouts etc.


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

Looks like a fork upgrade. The back doesn't appear to have disk brakes.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

taletotell said:


> Looks like a fork upgrade. The back doesn't appear to have disk brakes.


Wondered about that but some pics sure look like there is a disc on the back. Bet you are right though. Curious what fork, Spinner?


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Hmmm, why is this the first time I've heard about the Commencal Ramones bikes!

$250 for front/rear v-brakes, alum frame, short 3-pc cranks. Seems pretty good if the rest of the bike shakes out.

Doesn't say if it's a freewheel or not?


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Pretty sure 14, 16, 20 single are freewheel, no mention of coaster, or cassette, clearly a rear V brake.

Only thing dubious is steel 3 piece crank on 14 and 16, but easier to rectify than a "American BB" conversion and source of immediate weight loss with Sinz etc. All are euro BB per rep.


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## Vorar (Oct 23, 2010)

cakemonster said:


> Wondered about that but some pics sure look like there is a disc on the back. Bet you are right though. Curious what fork, Spinner?


Lol. Bike is stock 2014 Ramones 20 with hydraulic disk front and back and stock crappy RST fork. Upgrades are: Deity Decoy Pedals, BMX Gum Grips, Carbon XC Bar.









Doesn't look like you can get the Ramones with this level of kit anymore.









You need to go with the new Meta with multiple gears...looks good though.


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

I thought I was sold on the Spawn, but I think I'm going with the Commencal Ramone 16 for my 3yo.

Spawn may need to adjust their prices.


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

Heard they have reduced prices but havent checked


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Spawn Banshee is still $395, so that hasn't changed. Don't know about the others.


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

Sorry Dave i was refering to Commencal (previous post)


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Ah, OK. I misunderstood who needed to adjust their prices.


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## northernblades (Jul 22, 2011)

It all comes down to wants, needs, and the bottom line.
IMHO, the most important issue is in and of itself NOT having issues.

Not having cranks come lose, not having the bike fall apart, and not having every trip be a dower as a result of walking the bike home or fighting with it for 10 miles.

next is weight, at an acceptable level. Not weight weenie, but there is a line that when crossed (25 lb kids bike) or the weenies who feel the need to upgrade the Spawn because it isn't lite enough.

Lastly is ease of use.
This includes things like not having a coater brake and the child being able to use the provided brakes.

IMHO the spawn bikes are beautiful, Fit the bill, and are IMHO as ELITE as any 2-7 year old would ever "need" Unfortunately they are IMHO the extreme end of the spectrum, Bikes beyond that fell off the scale. 

I have no question, that a competent child's bike can be produced for MUCH less.
I have no question that the prices are a result of being specialty, and targeting an audience who will pay any amount listed.

The Dollar is not related to the cost of production + mark up
The dollar is what people WILL PAY.

Many products on the market today. 
Have different levels / builds. 
Where the best, and the lowest both cost the EXACT same to produce.
but one can charge 6x more for the top tier. 

On this note. I will be watching for the next 2 seasons for a used Savage. And hope that it all comes together. 

I also wish spawn would just ship the Banshee with a smaller chain ring. 
The kids are PLENTY fast enough. The reality is, it is the power they lack.
I have never seen my Child spin out on the stock ring.

I for one hope to have more options as my child ages.

The Commencal bikes look stunning, However I hope that they get the "kit" figured out before I need one.


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