# Tripple XM-L



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

As i have a load of LXM optics i wondered what it would be like if i used them in a tripple set up, simular to the cute 3 optic layout..
I'm assuming they will throw further than the cute 3..
Driver will be a B3flex... as I've still not used any of the ones i got from George..

Here's a design i knocked up in cad, its a bit of a beast at 57mm wide and 50mm deep..
I might be able to shave some off the width..

*Front View*









*Rear view*


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Looks nice mate. If you're using individual optics you could even set it up with 2 medium at the bottom and a spot on the top?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks mate...
I'm pretty chuffed with the drawing..I sat with one of my work mates last week for 15mins, he showed me where i was going wrong trying to do 3d models in autodesk..
Question is now, how do i calculate surface area in autodesk? 

I have loads of the LXM RS optics and was just looking to use what I've got.. plus a load of Cute 3's
I went out the other night with my cute 3 bar light and a single XML LXM helmet light, i found that the bar light lacked punch especially through the tracks that cross the farmers fields..

I do already have a tripple LC1 light, the optics are postions next to each other (3 in a row)..I'm hoping that positioning the 3 in this new design's config it will increase the intensity while using a simular optic LXM..

This design is quite wider than i would like, but only 50mm long..Going to have to design a mount that lets me have the light in front or below the bars..


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## phburns (Sep 30, 2008)

AREA (subcommand *O*bject) will give the area of a solid. Massprop will give the volume.

Not sure which versions this works in, I'm using acad 2012, Inventor is my 3d tool.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

I would have thought 3 LXM would just give a wall of light - they're what I'd call a narrow flood, with no really spot to speak of. They don't throw as far as an LC1 or Regina at least. Perfect as a bar light IMO though.

I'd add an LC1 or two in there if you want some more throw.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

phburns said:


> AREA (subcommand *O*bject) will give the area of a solid. Massprop will give the volume.
> 
> Not sure which versions this works in, I'm using acad 2012, Inventor is my 3d tool.


Thanks..
I messed with the area command..just need to make sure I set my units as inches to start with...which I didn't..
I'm using 2012 also..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I finally put my mill back together and made a start on this light..
Nothing to show tonight as I just cut the main parts, tomorrow ill hopefully have made some progress worth taking pictures of.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Is it worth throwing in the 3 extra 3xXPG-2's?
Not sure how to wire them in using one B3flex though..assuming the XPG's would have to be in parrallel, so they would only see 1amp max


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

Goldigger said:


> Is it worth throwing in the 3 extra 3xXPG-2's?
> Not sure how to wire them in using one B3flex though..assuming the XPG's would have to be in parrallel, so they would only see 1amp max


You could put the 3 XPGs in parallel and then wire them in series with the 3 XMLs, effectively giving you a 4 XML load on the B3flex. If your goal is to get some extra throw from the XPGs then sure, but if you just want raw power probably better to make this into a 4 XML light...


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## adleysh (Jun 4, 2012)

I was just planning a new build using 2 XML's and substituting the 3rd XML for a triple XPG and optic with the XPG's running in parallel, will let you know how it comes out.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Are the 10mm Carclo optics still the best for XP-G2's?
Anybody know what the output is at 1amp?

Not a lot to show, just milled the front pocket and starter holes for all the optics/leds and bolts...
Now i need to centre each hole on the rotary table and mill the holes for the leds/optics


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

If you want throw, I'd go with XP-E2s, otherwise you'll just be adding more flood to a floody light. Or, little mini aspheric lenses over the top of them? That'd look pretty awesome  You could even slightly vary the focal distance on each one so that you don't get the "square spot in a round beam" issue.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

What are my round 10mm optic options?
All i can find is ledil lisa, at 16° for XP-E and 24° for XP-G

XP-E seems like it will get washed out by the XM-L's
XP-G at 24° is probably to floody..


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I think you will not notice the output from the XP`s at all no matter what optic you use .

However I have some tiny Aspherics kicking around if you want to give them a try you can have 3 if you want .


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> I think you will not notice the output from the XP`s at all no matter what optic you use .
> 
> However I have some tiny Aspherics kicking around if you want to give them a try you can have 3 if you want .


Hi Chris, happy new year.

Have you tried these aspeherics with an XP-G?
Just wondering if its worth the effort of milling the holes for them.
Appreciate the offer..thanks :thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Happy 2013 to you to Jay

nope not had a meaningfull play with them so no idea if they are any good










having a good sort out this week in the garage so there may be other stuff wanting a good home soon

the small lenses are 11.53 mm and the larger ones are 18.5 mm I have had a play with the bigger ones and they are pretty good


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Happy new year all.

Chris, do you remember where you got the larger ones from?

Thanks

Stuart


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Happy new year all.
> 
> Chris, do you remember where you got the larger ones from?
> 
> ...


Hi Stu Have a good un too

they all came from surplusshed


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Happy 2013 to you to Jay
> 
> nope not had a meaningfull play with them so no idea if they are any good
> 
> ...


What's the depth of them Chris? Don't suppose you remember the focal length?
Might not have enough room in this light!

How much do you want for those 3? And the other bigger 3? PayPal?
If they don't fit in this I have another idea for them.

Thanks


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Little ones are 7.37 mm high big ones 8 mm 

no idea of focul length 

Free just postage if you can make good use of em .


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Little ones are 7.37 mm high big ones 8 mm
> 
> no idea of focul length
> 
> Free just postage if you can make good use of em .


Thanks, much appreciated :thumbsup:
PayPal sent, let me know if it doesn't show my address and ill mail it over to you.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

No Addy came through with the paypal Jay


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Thanks Chris.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> No Addy came through with the paypal Jay


Emailed my address over last week, not sure you received it Chris?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> Emailed my address over last week, not sure you received it Chris?


Got smitten with this lurgy so havenot yet posted them sorry 
will get em in the mail tomorrow .


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Got smitten with this lurgy so havenot yet posted them sorry
> will get em in the mail tomorrow .


My sis and her baby have the lurgy, not pleasant!
Hope you get well soon..dont rush to the post office, just wanted to check you got my address.
I wont be able to do anything with them until sunday anyway..

Cheers


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Quick update...
This one I'm going to keep as a tripple LED set up, but ill use the new XM-L2's..
I'll make another and hopefully fit in the 6 LED's..possible using the 6 aspheric lens i got from troutie (thanks Chris)

I'll need to mount the switch in the side of the light, as i just dont have enough depth in the driver compartment to mount the switch in the rear cover..









Still need to chamfer the led holes on the front cover








and take the LED/optic holes down to the correct depth in the body..Initial plan is to use the optics without there holder..








Rear cover will have just the M8 cable gland..not mad my mind up exactly where..








Pedastal to stick the B3flex to..








And of course mill some sexy fins and loose some weight!!


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

WOW ! Looking really good. :thumbsup:


****


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## ML_ryder (Dec 2, 2006)

That is a nice bit of machining. What are your thoughts for a mount?


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

what size end mill do you use for the o-ring slot and what size o-ring - you use o-ring string, right? Beautifully clean machining too.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Looks good Jay 
be interest to see what those little len`s do


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

That is a bunch of work! The fins running lengthwise or round?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Cheers for the comments guys..

Vanc - Your not wrong, it is a bunch of work on my little rotary table! I really could do with a 120mm chuck at least!
Having to locate each of the 3 led holes is a bit time consuming.. Had to do that on the front plate to mill the chamfer, as i didnt have enough room in the Z axis!
I milled the holes both in the front plate and body by using a slot drill and stepping up in sizes up to my biggest slot drill (16mm)
Then i used my boring head and shaved the holes to 20mm. That gave me a decent sized hole to locate the centre of, using a DTI.
I then milled each led hole to the correct depth and width!

Regarding the fins, not 100% sure yet..really wanted to be able to tilt my rotary table!

Here's where the switch will go - ignore the two holes in the back plate..









Today i sorted the business end out..


















Matt i use 1mm o-ring chord.. face groove needs to be 1.40mm wide and 0.65mm deep..
I use this for the measurements..
O-Ring Metric & Inch Groove Dimensions

As for a mount, i want this to be under the bars - so need to come up with something.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

thanks for the link GD, that's a very useful resource. I might have to order some stuff in the UK, finding metric stuff in imperial land is no fun.

looking great though, plus you'll be able to swap optics in and out if you want to try something different. Those LED-DNA optics would work well mixed in with the LXMs.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Not much progress at the moment..
Decided putting the switch in the top was to tight so went for the conventional in the rear cover..
Finned the rear cover to shave some weight!


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

looks good gd


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Quick update on slow progress..just milling the outside fins of the main body..


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Nice work Jay. I had forgotten you don't have a lathe and therefore have to cut everything with the rotary table and the mill. You are certainly a pro at it.

How long does the rotary table keep spinning after you stop turning it


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks Brad...

It's still spinning now..12 hours later.. 
I keep meaning to fit a motor to it and also keep the manual handle...but time is short with my little boy...
He does love to sit on my knee and watch me on the mill..


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## adrenalnjunky (Jul 28, 2007)

I think I saw somewhere where someone had rigged up a corded variable speed drill to their manual handle to turn the rotary table.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

*reminds me of my old magic motorcycle cranks bottom bracket*








Should have never got rid of them......could've used them as a light body?


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## adrenalnjunky (Jul 28, 2007)

Have you seen what those Magic cranks are selling for on eBay? You could use em to fund a lot of goodies these days.


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## beecrazy (Jun 20, 2011)

That is quite the nice light and fabulous craftmanship!

Don


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

It's been a while, but finally finished the machining...had little time due to getting married and holiday..
Just need to polish it and anodise..


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

that looks very impressive and congratulations on your wife's new light 

I'm just starting to build my milling attachment, but I won't be able to do anything like this.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

mattthemuppet said:


> that looks very impressive and congratulations on your wife's new light
> 
> I'm just starting to build my milling attachment, but I won't be able to do anything like this.


Thanks Matt,
My wife is so pleased its finished....as shes thinks thats me off the mill now....

I cant see any reason why you cant do anything like what I've done, using a milling attachment on a lathe...
Its basically the same setup, apart from i have a rotary table with a chuck - you have a chuck on a motor...
I need a lathe!!!


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

it's more just a question of scale and horsepower (or lack of) really, but we'll see  I have a couple more small projects (work lights etc) do gain skills on before I consider starting on a proper light.

I do have an on-off switch now though and a motor tie down, both of which I'm inexplicably happy about 

Looking forward to the finished product GD - any sense of how much longer it'll take?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Looking good Jay and congrats on getting married. I'm coming up on 13 years on Monday. Might do something special for her like toast and tea in bed.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Matt, do you mean anodise and get it wired up?
I need to redo my cad drawing to workout the surface area, for anodising. Autodesk gets a bit messed up sometimes with 3d...something to do with the csg tree.

Polish might take 1.5 hours
Anodising 4 hours
Wiring 1-2 hours

I'd like to get it done on Sunday...but depends if my wife is going to moan 

Brad...
Thanks for the comments..
Only part I don't like is what I did to the front of the body...seemed a good idea at the time.

Don't forgot to put honey or Jam on your wife's toast..

Are you using inventor or solidworks?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Jay I am using inventor pro 2011. 

Now your married your wife should be happy with anything that makes you happy, like watching sport, making lights, procrastinating over the list of jobs she has written for you, drinking beer with mates. Your penance is having to endure looking at shoes and handbags when you go shopping. 

I like the idea of some honey on her toast. That will get me in the good books for sure


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

Goldigger said:


> It's been a while, but finally finished the machining...had little time due to getting married and holiday..
> Just need to polish it and anodise..


Congratulations on getting married&#8230; er, uh, I mean, congratulations at ending your life prematurely.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

just a rough time until we can start nagging you for beamshots 

The first morning my wife (then girlfriend) was in England I made her Marmite on toast. Amazingly we're still together 13 years later! Actually, I think it might be our wedding anniversary sometime soon. We married in England and then in Ecuador (where she's from) about a month later and I've spent the last 10 years getting the dates mixed up.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

mattthemuppet said:


> just a rough time until we can start nagging you for beamshots
> 
> The first morning my wife (then girlfriend) was in England I made her Marmite on toast. Amazingly we're still together 13 years later! Actually, I think it might be our wedding anniversary sometime soon. We married in England and then in Ecuador (where she's from) about a month later and I've spent the last 10 years getting the dates mixed up.


Marmite...you either love it or hate it..
We got married in cape town, my wife is from joberg..
We choose to get married on the beach...if I had second thoughts I had the option of giving her a nudge into the sea, for the sharks to play with 

As its easter weekend week after next...I've got this Sunday to get it anodized...
Problem is I haven't ordered the LEDs yet...XM-L2's appear to be out of stock.. I also wanted to get some MK-R's at the same time...
There not available on pcb's yet...!


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I've given it a polish...still needs a little touch up in places...

For you guys anodising, do you worry about polishing between the fins?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Looks awesome Jay. I have never polished between the fins but then mine are usually deep enough that I wouldn't be able to if I tries anyway. All it will mean is the fins base will be a bit darker and not as glossy


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Anodising all done...
Just need to get some XML-2's from cutter..

Is there any 20mm optics that work well with the old MC-E? I've been thinking of sticking 3 MK-R's in this for a mere 5100 lumens..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

A few pics of it put together...(not wired up yet)


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

That's a great looking light! 

You guys with the guts to do anodizing are p#++ing me off. Why am I being such a pansy about playing around with a bunch of acid and such?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks VanC...

I think some people find the idea of anodizing at home dangerous? But then your mill can take your finger off a lot quicker...
15% hydrochloric acid will take ages to burn a finger off.. Not sure how long the etching solution would take mind you..
As for your eyes, just wear goggles like you do when your machining...


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Looks good Jay and the grooves look the same as the rest of the rest of the lights so no problem

And Vanc your talking a 3:1 mic of battery acid and distilled water you wuss. The LCD method uses quite low currents so not a lot of fumes, although I still were a mask suited to acids and goggles to protect my sensitive nose and eyes. Better to be safe that sorry. The only real dangerous bi product is hydrogen gas so make sure you have a window open of do it outside like I do. Oh and have a bucket of bicarb and water handy for the inevitable spills and splashes.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks Brad...

I'd forgotten about the fumes.....maybe I'm still high


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

You do realize that porn is prohibited in some countries?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Toaster79 said:


> You do realize that porn is prohibited in some countries?


Yeah, but doesn't it feel good looking at it knowing your breaking the law?

Thanks..


XML-2's ordered today....


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

very pretty, that really is a beautiful blue!


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

mattthemuppet said:


> very pretty, that really is a beautiful blue!


Thanks Matt,
I'm really happy with this blue.. I nearly opted for black, as last time I did blue it didn't come out to good. So that part got stripped and redone red.

So this time I mixed up some fresh blue dye. Heated up the water to 70 degrees C before I dissolved the dye in it, then let it cool down to the correct temp.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

hey, you're welcome! It's great to have the constant inspiration that people serve up on here  I really need to read up on home anodizing and see if it's worth getting it set up here or wait until/ if I move back to the UK.

speaking of inspiration, the peeps on BLF have got me reflowing my own buck-boost driver board designed by nickelflipper for which I'll possibly end up writing the code to operate. How crazy is that? I didn't know a + from a - a few years ago


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Where do you think you'll move back to in the UK?
Why you coming back, its still cold and snowy here!

If you start writting code, how long till you release your own drivers?

I've found some new inspiration, I've been playing with inventor. Drawing up 3d lights is pretty easy, now i can put all my ideas into drawings.









I have some XP-G2's on the way along with the XM-L2's for this light..Hoping to use the XPG's with the little aspherics troutie sent me..


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

absolutely no idea where we'd end up, although I'd prefer to avoid the south if possible (too expensive, not enough hills). It just depends if I can get a lectureship position and where, which is the main reason why I'll probably be heading back - there's no chance I'll be able to get a similar position here. It'd be nice to be closer to family too, even though we'd be further from my wife's family. As for weather, it's spent the last few days alternating between snow storms and blue skies (sometimes both at the same time, which is really weird), so I think I've got the crap weather thing covered. Plus I've lived in Bristol and New Zealand, so rain is no mystery either 

I'll have to check out Inventor, looks pretty cool! It'd be a bit of a wrench to move away from paper and pencil (or raised thumb and squinted eye, typically), but it would probably help some with the precision.

As for drivers, it's quite a lot less scary than you'd think, for simple AMC7135 based linear drivers at least. All they consist of is an MCU (ATtiny13 typically), a capacitor and a couple of resistors, plus the 7135 chips. I don't have anywhere near the electrical nous for anything more complicated (although I could probably learn), but I wouldn't mind a linear driver with through holes for the LED wires - those pads they have are tiny. As for coding, I don't know how hard that'll be as I haven't started yet


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Do it Matt, inventor means you can pretty much knock up a light in about 15-20 minutes, calculate it's surface and mass instantly and add any colour you want for sh$t's and giggle's, then produce a 2D dimensioned drawing to knock the light up. 

I am going to try and make up some drivers over the winter. I have a selection of attiny chips and have been playing around with the programming with the focusable aspheric build. Getting the light to switch on was easy but understanding the code to use pwm and modes is another thing all together. Wish there was a local night school course to learn these things but looks like google will have to be my teacher. 

I'm looking at using an A6210 buck driver chip and I think an attiny13 or 25, but I think from memory they do about the same stuff. I've got all the components, just need to find some time..sigh


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

alright, you've convinced me  I'll just have to add it to the growing list!

Check out:
How To Build a Flashlight With Perfect Modes (picture heavy) | BudgetLightForum.com
that should give you something to read for a while  There's a BLF VLD driver which can programmed and should on there as a link somewhere. There's also a page on it on flashlight.wiki, although that more covers the basics of flashing the chips than writing the code. The attiny25 is better as it has 2x the flash space (lots of people struggle to get the code into 1kb on a 13) and an onboard thermistor, plus the code should work the same (I think). I've got a couple of 25s to play with, particularly to see if I can figure out how to get the thermistor working right. Go for a 45 or 85 if you can, they're not much more and have a lot more code space (4kb and 8kb) which'll let you stick more bells'n'whistles in. That buck driver chip looks really neat, decent efficiency too, although I couldn't get much to change in the efficiency calculator. Might have been using it wrong though.

There are also plenty of very smart electronics whizzes on BLF too, if you ever feel the need to get some advice or feedback. PilotPTK and Texaspyro for electronics and DrJones for Attiny programing. I haven't heard much about thermistor calibration as most programmers work with the 13s on Nanjg chips, so those waters are a bit murkier. I wouldn't mind designing my own boards one day, it's fun to push yourself and the more you know, the easier it is


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Fantastic Matt. I have some 45 and 85's also so time for some easter reading, when I finish work of course, oh and whilst still fitting in time for model glider flying 

Oh yeah Jay, despite the small diversionary hijack of your thread the light looks great. You mentioned the blue didn't work last time, well I had the same problem with black just recently and it turned out to be the dye pH was 7.6 and it should have been 5.5. I adjusted the pH and it worked great.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

ah, yes, sorry Jay. The MTBR DIY light forum, experts in derailing threads since 2001


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

XM-L2's turned up today, will hopefully have it wired up tomorrow night for some beamshots


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

sweet! You should try making some StinkPads (TM) - basically drilling a hole through the centre pad and then press riveting some solid copper wire in there. File flat, reflow LED et voila, you have a direct to copper LED  Some testing with a proper sinkpad on BLF by Match showed an increase of ~100lm (at the cost of some extra Vf) @3A, which is none too shabby.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

XM-L2's wired up and in place..









B3flex wired up...









The beamshot proved difficult to get both lights lined up, so that the comparison between the two was more visible..
This light at 3amps









My other tripple XML with cute3 optic


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

It took me a while to see it but the new one has a much brighter hot spot. Is it that noticeable with your eyes?


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

holy cow that is a bright light


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## Fourtrax (Mar 17, 2013)

Nice looking light! Just wondering how far away is the car in your beam shots? I've been trolling thru the forums for a while now and finally bit the bullet to build my own lights. Using the easy2led housings to get me started. Wondering on the distance as I hope to dual purpose the lights for MTB as well as ATVing.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

You can see the difference with the eye, this light appears to have a narrower beam..
I did expect it to be brighter than it is though!
What's the max lumens for a XM-L2....1163 lumens?(edit 1198) vs XM-L 975 lumens...
I'll try some wall shots, or less shutter times on the camera.

I'd be guessing if I said how far away the car was..maybe 40 meters..
I'll check next time I'm up there..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I read over on CPF that the claimed 1163 lumens is if you can keep the junction temp at 25°C! not sure thats possible unless i ride in the artic?

Here's a couple of wall shots that show the beam pattern
This light (Tripple XM-L2 LXM)









Tripple XM-L Cute 3


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

That wall shot shows the LXM as much nicer than the CUTE3. It seems to me that the outdoor shot has the new light angled slightly more down than the original light. I'm liking this one!


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

wow, that LXM has a much tighter spot than I expected! Looks like it's worth another play with. Did you use the provided holders or just plop the optics down on top of the LEDs?

BTW, Match on BLF measured ~1150lm out of an XM-L2 U2 on a Sinkpad at 3A, using a standard alu star (which is what I'm guessing you're using?) it only managed ~1050lm. They have a slightly higher Vf too, although that shouldn't matter with a buck driver. I still think you need to get some direct to copper stars, they should really help with heat sag in such a high powered light.


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