# Full face helmet, group discount?



## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

In light of the bad crashes we've had the past few months, several people have expressed inetrest in getting a full face helmet, me included. I'm wondering if we could get enough people to get one, hopefully we get either MTBR or a LBS to give us a discount if we all buy from them.

Thoughts anyone?


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## bullit71 (Apr 9, 2004)

Yeah, maybe the more suspension, bigger brakes and smoother bikes out there today allow us to go faster and faster. I know that I with my 06 Enduro and it's buttery smooth suspension and low center of gravity I can go faster than I've ever been able to before.

Hmmmm, I know a really good bike shop in Campbell with a great owner named Lars that may be a good fit for something like this. :skep: 

:thumbsup:


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## BrandonNorCal (Sep 16, 2006)

I have been thinking about getting a full face since my last crash. Easiest trail in the park and I end up doing a wild ass OTB that seperated my shoulder and left a giant bash in my helmet. A couple of inches either way and my teeth would have taken that impact. I might be in but I also might just buy one today after reading about CNBiker's horrible accident.

Brandon


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

This crash especially is getting me in the mood for a FF since it happened in a spot that really isn't that hard, but if you don't expect it or you're not paying attention bad things can happen. 

I know on my Enduro especially riding Coe at night or Demo, I've come pretty close to a high speed crash that would definetely give me problems if I crashed

But a particular shop in campbell is one of the ones I had in mind


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## Rex_Skidmore (Mar 5, 2006)

Speed isn't needed for damage to enter the equation. I think this is really a great idea, *jorge*. I'm a believer in group buying power and volume discounts.


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## sungchang (Aug 31, 2004)

I think this is a great idea. What are the recommended FF?


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## benja55 (Aug 10, 2005)

*I might get in on it too...*

I do find that on my newer, bigger bike I'm pushing into areas that are outside of my older skill set. Meaning hucks mostly. Its fun, but the consequences are greater. But the truth is, many awful accidents happen at the most mundane moments.

Anyhoo, I'm interested in seeing if theres a deal possible.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Stalk is the guy to talk to about the FF helmet.

Casco Viper MX.


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## grundy (Jan 12, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Stalk is the guy to talk to about the FF helmet.
> 
> Casco Viper MX.


I too have been wondering if it is time to find a lightweight FF helmet. That Viper looks good, count me in if a group buy is arranged.


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## YukonGT (Jan 12, 2007)

I bought one not long ago and I'm going to wear it from know on, no more ******** It' s about protecting yourself.


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

I got a PM from a bike shop in SF that is willing to give us a discount, I'm just waiting to hear back from them about more details.

I for sure am going to get one.

My wife would be mad if I screwed up this beautiful face


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

jorgemonkey said:


> I for sure am going to get one.
> 
> My wife would be mad if I screwed up this beautiful face


Mine too.

Curse being really really really extremely good looking (a la Zoolander).


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## benja55 (Aug 10, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> Curse being really really really extremely good looking (a la Zoolander).


...Tis true. A terrible burden to bear. 

So what do these things normally cost anyway? I've never really priced out a FF helmet.


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## Mr.P (Feb 8, 2005)

Great idea!

There have been several threads about an XCable (light and good ventilation) full face in the All Mountain forum. I figure the more vents and cooler the helmet, the more likely I am to wear it.

Two of the models either A; cannot be found in the US, or B have been discontinued. The third is by Specialized and available.

one is:
Casco Viper MX
the other I don't remember

A real FF with real ventilation is the Specialized Deviant.

Some have pulled the cheek pads out of a FF for even better ventilation while still maintaining face protection.

I just ordered a Spec Deviant myself. I call it my cheap dental plan. The posts on these boards have inspired me. 

Let's hope we never put these helmets to full use.

Mr. P


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

benja55 said:


> ...Tis true. A terrible burden to bear.
> 
> So what do these things normally cost anyway? I've never really priced out a FF helmet.


Specialized makes one that looks pretty nice. About $120. I think Big Larry has one.
I forget the model.


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## YukonGT (Jan 12, 2007)

They can range from $50-$150. You can get an Azonic for around $60 and Bell has one The bellistic for around $150. There is a thread under All MOuntain in the general forums that might be able to answer your questions. They show pics of some nice Specialized and Pryme helmets too.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

benja55 said:


> ...Tis true. A terrible burden to bear.
> 
> So what do these things normally cost anyway? I've never really priced out a FF helmet.


Depends...but a good FF helmet is at least a couple hundo.

As Mr.P said...the Casco can't be had in the US. Cool helmet though.

The Spesky helmet seems like a good option.


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## hardway (Jun 3, 2006)

I've got a Prime AL that I like a lot. Pretty light weight and offers good protection. There's a padding mod for it floating around the AM boards too that's supposed to lighten it up more, but I haven't done it.


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## shanedawg (Jan 9, 2004)

Bell bellistic retail is only $75 They are not the strongest out there but they are pretty light and have some good vents. I've crashed pretty good on mine and it took the beating.


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## GuruAtma (May 17, 2004)

I got the Specialized FF helmet after Francis's crash. Different helmets fit different heads. Specialized does a good job of making it light weight and breathable. I use it at downieville, but not on my local trails. Of course my local trails are where I'll probably crash.

When you try on a helmet, try to have a camelbak so you can try sticking the hose in your mouth. It's difficult with some helmets.


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## bstyle74 (May 8, 2005)

i think buying a FF is like buying any other helmet: they'll all protect you in a crash, but which one is "best" for you depends on weight, fit, asthetics, venting, and price. try a couple out.

if you're gonna be riding a FF everywhere to save a possible broken jaw, consider what else you will be risking if you are climbing charcoal rd or sulphur at the end of a long day and it is 90+ degrees. also, if you have back problems like i do, don't consider carrying your helmet on/in your camelbak for the uphills. the additional weight and mass (not to mention swinging motion if it isn't secured properly) might be cause some back problems the next day.


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## bullit71 (Apr 9, 2004)

bstyle74 said:


> i think buying a FF is like buying any other helmet: they'll all protect you in a crash, but which one is "best" for you depends on weight, fit, asthetics, venting, and price. try a couple out.
> 
> if you're gonna be riding a FF everywhere to save a possible broken jaw, consider what else you will be risking if you are climbing charcoal rd or sulphur at the end of a long day and it is 90+ degrees. also, if you have back problems like i do, don't consider carrying your helmet on/in your camelbak for the uphills. the additional weight and mass (not to mention swinging motion if it isn't secured properly) might be cause some back problems the next day.


You're right. It just doesn't make sense to wear a heavy FF riding Coe in the heat of summer.

What we need are more offerings from the industry like the Viper. There's nothing out there so far that would be highly ventilated FF.


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## Carl Hungus (Nov 29, 2005)

Is peripheral vision an issue with FF helmets at all? Just curious from anyone currently using one. This thread and others in the past have convinced it's time to make the switch.


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## Zen_Turtle (Sep 22, 2005)

I have a Pryme AL also and I think is pretty good. Not to wear in summer though, but I think I'm going to use it a lot more up here in NorCal.
There are a few more models (and listed some of them here)

It feels different than a regular lid. What I did at the beginning was to use it when toolin' around in my neighborhood on my bike. Sure people look at you, but you get used to it (I mean to the helmet, not to people pointing at you)...

ZT


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## bstyle74 (May 8, 2005)

stripes said:


> Good XC FF helmet, except for the climbing thing, but it's still cooler than any other FF I've used (I haven't used the Viper) for XC.


Did you get your Deviant from a local shop? I haven't seen it in any shops yet and it would be nice to try it on.


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## JFR (Jan 15, 2004)

I'm down for a group discount on the Specialized Deviant.


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## Rex_Skidmore (Mar 5, 2006)

Carl Hungus said:


> Is peripheral vision an issue with FF helmets at all?


I'm more Italian than English, so w/o offenses I will remind everyone of 
The First Rule of Italian Racing : 
What's behind you - does not matter.
- overheard at Blackhawk last weekend


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

The Deviant is the helmet I'm looking at also. Looks like it would be perfect for me since I do more XC than crazy downhills


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## desmo13 (Jul 31, 2006)

count me in.


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## Dan'ger (Aug 26, 2004)

sungchang said:


> I think this is a great idea. What are the recommended FF?


Next thing you know, someone's asking what the best NorCal toupee is...

I got a Specialized Deviant but I sweat my ballz off in it. I think the call of Stalk with the Casco Viper is the way to go.


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

*Damn, y'all are scaring me...*

Keep me in the loop, kindly. If a group deal comes through, I very likely will join -- especially if some custom graphics are included. PM me please if it's going to happen. Found myself crankin' my big ring pretty damn hard at Cool two weeks ago, and the whole time I'm thinkin' "Fnck, I hope I don't lose it out here..."


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

dan51 said:


> Specialized makes one that looks pretty nice. About $120. I think Big Larry has one.
> I forget the model.


I have the Specialized Deviant which I got after Francois's face plant last year. I tested it at Demo on a hot day (~80F IIRC). I was expecting to keep it on my pack and climb up helmet-less. But I found the ventilation was superb and I wasn't getting hot at all with it. So I wore the Deviant the whole time and it was great.

I got the Large, which has a LOT more room than the medium, which also helps. I can even drink and eat by reaching under the chin guard that's a few inches out. The only issue is that the large is a bit too loose on me, not the best for protection. But the medium was too tight on me, and the loose fit of the large probably helps on ventillation.


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## Stalk (May 24, 2005)

For local riding Casco is da helm, or how they will say in German (Russians will agree) Casca zer Gut :thumbup:

Saying that I would be interested in Deviant discount for Mammoth and presumably N* riding this summer.


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## wg (Dec 20, 2003)

I would really like one of the Casco helms. http://www.casco-helme.de/en/default01.htm
Nicht billig. Sehr teuer

Started following the thread that mentioned MEC in Canada (Some sort of REI type store) and they don't have them any more
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_...older_id=2534374302693161&bmUID=1174713042443
http://www.casco-helme.de/en/default01.htm

Any place else in Canada? Seems it'd be easier to order from there than Europe.


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## audi0phile (Jul 6, 2006)

Next things you know you guys are going to be wearing Han's Devices (anyone a NASCAR fan? I'm not, my race sport, F1, had em before Mr. Earndhart crashed, but now EVERYONE wears em since he had an "open face" race helmet, ala no chin/mouth protecion).


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## desmo13 (Jul 31, 2006)

Event though I am in on this, I am a little bummed because I just got the brand spankin new Fox Flux helmet, with only one ride so far in it!


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

Same here, I bought a new helmet a week ago thurs. I've only had one ride on dirt with it, the rest have been road. Looks like it will be my road helmet, and the FF the trail one. 

Of course, with some of the drivers I've been seeing lately, I may just use the FF the whole time


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## hardway (Jun 3, 2006)

I'd also be interested if the group goes with the Casco. Buying a Deviant is out, since I already have my Prime, but the viper I would pick up, especially at a discount.


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## bullit71 (Apr 9, 2004)

audi0phile said:


> Next things you know you guys are going to be wearing Han's Devices (anyone a NASCAR fan? I'm not, my race sport, F1, had em before Mr. Earndhart crashed, but now EVERYONE wears em since he had an "open face" race helmet, ala no chin/mouth protecion).


Yeah I hear ya, but as our sport grows and the bikes get bigger and more sophisticated the faster we're going.

This is not uncommon.

I remember when we used lap belts in cars. Now we have airbags all over the place.

I've skiied all my life and would never think of wearing a helmet. Can you imagine wearing one 20yrs ago? People would stare and laugh at you. Now my wife is bugging me about getting one since I do the black diamonds.

Football used to use leather helmets.

NASCAR in the 60's? I haven't a clue but I'd imagine its less than what they wear now.

Bottom line is when people see others get hurt, like Dale Earnheart or Hong or whoever, they start thinking about the possibility that these freak accidents could very well happen to you.

That said, I still don't think a FF is necessary for every ride. I'm not going to wear one at Fremont Older, or Quicksilver, etc.

But I too bought a FF after Francois's accident. I will wear it at:

Downieville, SDF for sure. Maybe the Gap if I can find a light breathable one. Not sure about Coe. Yada yada...


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## CrankyMonkey (May 11, 2006)

The Casco seems like the way to go . I think I could convince my wife on that one simply because it's two helmets in one. Then all you need to do on the climb out is unhook the chin protector and pedal on home.

I will keep my eye on the this thread...


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## pacman (Jan 16, 2004)

jorgemonkey said:


> Thoughts anyone?


FF helmets scare me. I did a full face crash 10 years ago (no short term memory), besides facial damage I had a slipped disc in the neck. I always think about what if a thicker helmet had held my face off the dirt, would my neck have broken? 
I'll risk my face rather than my neck.


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## fred-da-trog (Oct 28, 2003)

Another vote for the Casco. I like the removable chin protector and venting.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=10718

About $200


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## tsimbu (Jan 25, 2005)

*I'm a little worried also*



pacman said:


> FF helmets scare me. I did a full face crash 10 years ago (no short term memory), besides facial damage I had a slipped disc in the neck. I always think about what if a thicker helmet had held my face off the dirt, would my neck have broken?
> I'll risk my face rather than my neck.


I was talking to my LBS buddy about this thread and he said to beware using the FF when not needed. It can make some crashes worse. If you are going down and turn your head to the side (natural reaction to protect your face) the chin guard part gets pushed right into your collar bone and can break it.  He said that he's had alot of people come into the shop with a sling on with similar stories, "I endoed and landed on the helmet and CRACK".

I know that it's probably just dumb luck but I have never hit my face head on (knock on wood), I always seem to turn my head and lead in with my sholder. Maybe I just have more practice at crashing for stupid reasons than most.


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## campisi (Dec 20, 2004)

tsimbu said:


> I know that it's probably just dumb luck but I have never hit my face head on (knock on wood), I always seem to turn my head and lead in with my sholder. Maybe I just have more practice at crashing for stupid reasons than most.


Ditto. For some reason I've never hit my face and I've had some serious MTB crashes, YET! I also ride dirtbikes a lot and have crashed many times at speed and you just can't avoid your face getting shoved into the ground - can't imagine not having full coverage on a dirtbike. Think I'm in on the FF helmet buy ...


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## Stalk (May 24, 2005)

If ordering from Chainreaction, just don't do DHL, they will pay custom fees.


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## desmo13 (Jul 31, 2006)

I do not know if I want to wait for a group order... today, 10 minutes from the car, gravel fire road descent, buddy wipes out. gravel rash and a huge bruise where his helmet broke on his forehead. I am ready for one now. 

I know I push myself to go faster and faster, and ride longer and longer. tired and fast = bad. And all during the day, there was a brand new set of 661 Race legs and arm armor sitting in my house, it will go with me from now on


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## SVSocrates (Dec 8, 2004)

Not to thread hijack, but a friend is involved with a company called "eMax" that is trying to facilitate this very kind of thing, i.e. consumer-driven, bulk purchase discounts. I suggested to him that this might be the kind of thing that many cyclists would be interested in. At the moment, the company is still in start-up, so the companies with whom they might strike deals are not set, i.e. they are open to suggestions. Would this be something that people here would be interested in?


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## Jefe74 (Mar 1, 2006)

Guys,

I sent off a message to CRC seeing if they would give a discount on a bulk order on the Casco. If they say yes, I would volunteer to coordinate it. At very least we should be able to save on shipping. If anyone is interested, PM me. I'll update if/when I hear back.

- Jeff


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> Depends...but a good FF helmet is at least a couple hundo.


Not true, the Giro Remedy can be had for under $100 if you shop around.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Jefe74 said:


> Guys,
> 
> I sent off a message to CRC seeing if they would give a discount on a bulk order on the Casco. If they say yes, I would volunteer to coordinate it. At very least we should be able to save on shipping. If anyone is interested, PM me. I'll update if/when I hear back.
> 
> - Jeff


Dude, I'm in.


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

I take it its the Casco Viper MX helmet? If so, I'm in for getting one


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## velocipus (Apr 27, 2005)

*yes for viper*

can't stand the idea of wearing a ff for trail riding. i bought a nice, light, well ventilated ff when i built my dh bike... sucks to wear even dh, but certainly has inspired confidence (is this a good thing?)

but, since i broke my giro last monday, i need a new XC helmet.

Count me in if the viper deal goes down


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## Jefe74 (Mar 1, 2006)

Jefe74 said:


> Guys,
> 
> I sent off a message to CRC seeing if they would give a discount on a bulk order on the Casco. If they say yes, I would volunteer to coordinate it. At very least we should be able to save on shipping. If anyone is interested, PM me. I'll update if/when I hear back.
> 
> - Jeff


Well, the response back from Chain Reaction kinda sucked. They offered 100GBP ($197) for 10 or more with free shipping.

But their price now is only 105, and they have 10 off right now. And they have free shipping to the US with an order over 150GBP. So buying 2 would be a better deal...

Not enough of an incentive to go through the hassle of managing a group buy.

Anybody else seen a better price?

- Jeff


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Basically, if you buy 2, that's $200 a helmet. Steep, but cheaper than the alternative if something goes wrong.


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## grrrah (Mar 26, 2004)

count me in for a group buy..

Francois, any magic contacts?


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2006)

*I can help out*

How 'bout I just make this easy.

Mention this thread at my shop and you'll get 10% off your helmet.

I'll make the offer good until Sea Slaughter. I probably have over fifty full face helmets in stock, and they are from Specialized, Giro, 661, Fox, and TSG. Prices range from 69 bucks to 350 for a full on DOT carbon beast. The most popular helmet by far is the Deviant, but not everyone's noggin fits in one, so try 'em on. Bring your favorite eye protection to try with 'em, not all helmets like traditional sunglasses as they are often used with goggles...

Do yourself a favor and unleash the confidence in yourself with a good helmet!

Trail Head Cyclery is open seven days...:thumbsup:


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

Nice thread on the Casco with pictures.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=218327


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

Does the Deviant have the removable part on the bottom, or is it the Casco one only?


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

jorgemonkey said:


> Does the Deviant have the removable part on the bottom, or is it the Casco one only?


The jaw guard on the Deviant is fixed. But it sticks out quite a ways, especialy on the Large versus the Medium. On the large, its so far out that I can drink with the helmet on by reaching under.

The jaw guard is not the problem with heat in the helment anyway, it's the side and back padding. The Deviant has tremendous amount of vents like a normal helmet, which is what helps it. You can also remove pads, but the Large was loose on me so I saw no need.

It's a very good idea to try on the FF helmet at a LBS rather than mail order. The fit is especially sensitive and imporatant on a FF helmet. BTW, I bought mine at Trail Head Cyclrey last year, without Lar's discount.


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## California L33 (Jul 30, 2005)

I'm seriously considering this. I'm a conservative rider, but I do like my teeth. Has anyone ever used the Giro Remedy? It doesn't look like it has as many vents, and I ride where it's hot. 

I think the trouble with trying to get a group discount for the Casco at CRC is that they're so big that even a large group doesn't do enough for their bottom line to make a discount pay off (not to mention they're already selling in bulk by virtue of their size.)


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## Stalk (May 24, 2005)

CRCs prices are reasonable. I went throught the trouble of German E-bay, and still end up at about $200 per lid.
If you up to it, just order size bit larger then they reccomend. For instance I'm in the middle of Medium range (according to Casco chart) but Medium sized helmet is snug fit.
With their retention system I even could go away with Large. So if you toward end of range, upsize. 

With chin-guard removed (5 sec to do that), it's best XC helmet I have used. I have climbed Tractor and Sulfur with chin-guard on in August, np.


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

I was planning on trying on the helmet first, since I haven't gotten a FF before.

As soon as my buddy gives me some $$ for some camera equipment he broke I'll be down to there to pick one up @ Trailhead


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Hi... Front Ranger here... I was searching for Deviant Reviews when I found your thread. I have had a Viper for a while now, and thought I should make some observations.

1. My head is too big for a large Viper, it fits ok but is too tight to allow enough breathing room. I posted pics on the AM forum on Stalk's thread, reposted below. There isn't enough room for goggles, and this makes my sunglasses fog up too much. I posted a pic of my Bellistic on, and you can notice how much more room there is between the jawpiece nad forehead of the helmets. My head was a fraction of an inch smaller than what Casco says fits a large.

1.5 My face is also too big for the cheekpads of the large Deviant, but I hear you can remove them. I'm going back to the lbs to try that out.

2. The interface between the jawpiece and helmet is very fragile. You can't pull out one side without putting too much stress on the clip on the other side, so you have to be really careful taking the jawpiece on and off. The good news is that Casco sells the jawpiece seperately for $50 euro or so. One of my clips actually developed a small crack in the base of the clip and I repaired it by filling in the channel with epoxy. I can post pics of that if you relly want to see it. Think something along the lines of a plastic qr belt clip but not nearly as well thought out.

I may sell my Viper and my Bellistic and just use the Deviant. I ride an Uzzi on mostly technical trails and do smallish drops and jumps (for now), plus I ride the blacks at Keystone. I just got the Uzzi and it is so much more capable than my last bike I can see going bigger... at some point I'll need something like a Fox Rampage or Giro Remedy with the new bmx/dh ratings or even a light mx helmet, for now a Deviant might be the ticket.

If you want to buy either one pm me. I've only used it a handfull of times, never crashed on either one and the fix I did w/ the Viper jawpiece makes it better than new, imo... I'm thinking $140 for the Viper and $40 for the Bell... sorry for the spam hopefully I've given enough useful info. I would DEFINATELY keep the Viper if my head was smaller.


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## velocipus (Apr 27, 2005)

davec113 said:


> Hi... Front Ranger here... I was searching for Deviant Reviews when I found your thread. I have had a Viper for a while now, and thought I should make some observations.
> 
> 1. My head is too big for a large Viper, it fits ok but is too tight to allow enough breathing room. I posted pics on the AM forum on Stalk's thread, reposted below. There isn't enough room for goggles, and this makes my sunglasses fog up too much. I posted a pic of my Bellistic on, and you can notice how much more room there is between the jawpiece nad forehead of the helmets. My head was a fraction of an inch smaller than what Casco says fits a large.
> 
> ...


what's your hat size? or the circumfrence of your head above you ears in cm's?
i may be interested in the viper.


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## bullit71 (Apr 9, 2004)

Dude that Viper looks absolutely closterphobic! I have a big head too.

I'm going with the Deviant.

-Bullit71


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

My head circumference is 61cm, the Viper is supposed to be good for up to 62 cm heads... I think the head size will fit up to 62 cm, its the jawpiece that is a little bit too close. My face/jaw is area is pretty big, you can see in the pic of the Bell that my face gets alot wider below my temples. I believe the Viper needs a closer fit to function properly as it doesn't have very much padding in the jawpiece, another trade off for weight and comfort. 

I think the Viper is a good helmet despite its shortcomings, and it seems like there is no perfect helmet. The Deviant is probably 2x the weight of the Viper and its retention system doesn't make it easy to get on and off your head quickly and easily. The Met requires a screwdriver or something to get the jawpiece on or off... oh well, just go with whatever floats your boat I guess. Hopefully we will see better or more refined fr/trail helmets out soon :madman:


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## velocipus (Apr 27, 2005)

davec113 said:


> My head circumference is 61cm, the Viper is supposed to be good for up to 62 cm heads... I think the head size will fit up to 62 cm, its the jawpiece that is a little bit too close. My face/jaw is area is pretty big, you can see in the pic of the Bell that my face gets alot wider below my temples. I believe the Viper needs a closer fit to function properly as it doesn't have very much padding in the jawpiece, another trade off for weight and comfort.
> 
> I think the Viper is a good helmet despite its shortcomings, and it seems like there is no perfect helmet. The Deviant is probably 2x the weight of the Viper and its retention system doesn't make it easy to get on and off your head quickly and easily. The Met requires a screwdriver or something to get the jawpiece on or off... oh well, just go with whatever floats your boat I guess. Hopefully we will see better or more refined fr/trail helmets out soon :madman:


I have the same head shape issue as you. the viper would be a little small. thanks for responding.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

velocipus said:


> I have the same head shape issue as you. the viper would be a little small. thanks for responding.


No problem, I was hoping I could head off some people spending tons of $$$ on a helmet that doesn't fit well...

That said, the Deviant is $110, so if some smaller-faced person wants my Viper I'll let it go for $120 (gotta pay taxes  ).


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## stickyfingers (Aug 17, 2006)

I'd be in if we're still working on a group buy...

(I need to get back on my back, as it looks like spring has sprung)


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> How 'bout I just make this easy.
> 
> Mention this thread at my shop and you'll get 10% off your helmet.
> 
> ...


With any luck I'll be in tomorow to go get mine


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

jorgemonkey said:


> With any luck I'll be in tomorow to go get mine


I got mine on Friday. However a 26 mile ride at Coe on Sat didn't warrant trying it.
I think I'll try it out Wed night at ST.

-Dan


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

Picked up mine today, looking forward to using it thurs night. Well, actually I plan on wearing it, but hopefully not testing it out.


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## Kevin G (Feb 19, 2007)

Picked up a Giro Remedy from Beyond Bikes for under $90. Nice helmet. A bit toasty though I imagine on a hot day. Fits great with Fox Main goggles.


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## mrpercussive (Apr 4, 2006)

you guys considered calling up RideSFO for this??? I'm sure Phil will get you guys taken cared of... and he's right in Oakland...

www.ridesfo.com


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

mrpercussive said:


> you guys considered calling up RideSFO for this??? I'm sure Phil will get you guys taken cared of... and he's right in Oakland...
> 
> www.ridesfo.com


I actually got a PM from him, (I just remembered) and he's offered to help anyone out. Oakland is too far for me to pick up a helmet, so I got one down in the south bay. Give him a shout for a deal


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## mrpercussive (Apr 4, 2006)

jorgemonkey said:


> I actually got a PM from him, (I just remembered) and he's offered to help anyone out. Oakland is too far for me to pick up a helmet, so I got one down in the south bay. Give him a shout for a deal


Phil is on mtbr too??? oooooooo, never knew that... but yea fellas... go get yo helmets at ridesfo!!! support the local guys!!! and also get internet prices locally... without shipping...


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## Obi (Oct 16, 2005)

*Anyone still needing to get a fullface...*

Can't promise 'em by Sea Otter, but we can also get a group order, or great discount together for you all! :thumbsup:

PM me, or find the owner or myself in the shop. Mention this post. :thumbsup:

Helping to keep your marbles where they belong.  :thumbsup:

Obi..


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

So I got a Deviant last Friday, and finally got to ride with it tonight. Here's my 1 ride review.
Sorry it's so long, but there's lots to cover.

*Comfort and ease of use:*
The helmet is quite comfortable. With the chin strap pulled too tight, it can feel like it's choking you, so leave a little slack. I left the cheek pads in. While they can be removed, it makes the helmet much less secure on your dome.
I normally wear sports goggles, and putting this thing on took some effort. Whenever I slid it on, the goggles would either slide down my face or the strap would slid down my neck, depending on how I put it on. Eventually I settled for them sliding down my face since I could adjust that part after the lid was on. With normal glasses it would be much easier, just put them on after the helmet is on.
The strap on the chin can be kind of tricky too. Spend some time in a mirror figuring it out and it becomes easier.

*Vision*
Someone asked about vision out of these things. I have to say it's pretty bad. You can probably get use to it, but on my one ride it bugged me more than anything else. Left and right vision is slightly impared compared to a normal XC helmet. The biggest imparment is right in front of you. The reason: the jaw protector sticks out pretty far. In a normal riding position, I could see my hands, but nothing between them. No handlebars or front wheel. It was totally blocked by the jaw protector. While I don't stare at those things all ride, being able to see the tire out of the bottom of my eye is a huge help in technical situations. I also couldn't see my bike when looking down. I usually look down to see; what gear I'm in, what is my fork travel set at, is the fork locked out, WTF is making that clicking noise, and so on. Seeing all those things means tilting your head down farther than normal. I couldn't see the rear cassette unless I tilted my head way down, to the point that I felt a little unbalanced.
Slow technical situations are made more difficult by the poor vision.

*Hearing*
The helmet covers your ears with the shell and padding. Sounds are quite muffled. I couldn't really hear riders behind me.

*Ventilation*
While climbing I did notice I was heating up pretty good. Exhaling did cause a little blow back, but nothing too much to bug me. I never felt like I was breathing in too much of my expelled breathe. I was able to climb Rocky Ridge without too much discomfort. On a hot day I would have been suffering.
Above 8 miles an hour, the helmet vents very well, and you get a nice breeze going through it.

*Eatin' and drinkin'*
A hydration pack hose will fit under the jaw guard easily, and you could stuff a bar in through there too. I had a water bottle, and it was a chore to drink from. Tilt head way back and squirt. Drinking and riding would be impossible with a bottle. I imagine eating a sandwich would be tough, but if you're on a ride long enough to eat a sandwich on the trail, then you probably aren't going to wear a FF anyway.

*Jammin' down hill*
My head was cool, but the vision change was a little unsettling. With more time under the helmet I'm sure it will get easier. Not being able to see the front wheel had quite an affect on me.

*Weight*
It weighs more than a regular helmet, but I never felt any additional strain on my neck from holding up the added weight.

I'm not too sure if the current FF helmets are the right way to go. The vision and hearing imparments could get you into trouble more often than the times you'll be landing on your face.
If the jaw guard was more like a football helmet (metal cage) vision would be way better and I'd be more inclined to ride with it all the time. The Viper may be a little better in regards to vision and hearing.
I'll definitely wear it at Downieville and maybe Demo, but for the most part it will just be easier to ride smarter and safer.

-Dan


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## bullit71 (Apr 9, 2004)

dan51 said:


> So I got a Deviant last Friday, and finally got to ride with it tonight. Here's my 1 ride review.
> Sorry it's so long, but there's lots to cover.
> 
> *Comfort and ease of use:*
> ...


Dan,

Excellent write up. I agree with you an all points. I have a Fox FF motostyle helmet and had the same experiences, minus the chin strap thingy.

I think we can all agree that as it stands right now, there isn't a viable answer for the XC FF. It's just too hot and suppressive right now. Hopefully there will be better options in the future.

Until then I'll use my FF for Dville, N* and SDF, but other than that I'll keep the rubber side down and maintain control.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

What you complained about will never be solved by any ff helmet... its just the way it is. You will get used to it to the point where it is no longer an issue pretty quickly as far as vision and using the helmet with goggles or glasses. Not being able to see the front wheel might be a good training tool, you shouldn't be looking there anyway  As far as the cheek pads, I'd remove them for longer climbs, it is far more comfy and the helmet fits exactly like any other xc lid. Also, the cheek pads can be moved around a bit so that you can hear, at least for me. I can hear out of the Deviant far better than a lot of other ff helmets. Theres no doubt theres room for improvement, but the extra coverage will always come at a price.


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## Kevin G (Feb 19, 2007)

Haven't ridden yet with my new Giro Remedy (see image below), but I can see Dan's points being consistent among the FF lines. Maybe it's just a protective measure to get used to. I'd rather be a little toasty on my more extreme rides, hear a bit less, and have a bit less visibility in order to avoid a potentially fatal head blow. When I ride now with a non-FF I feel a bit exposed. But on the other hand, one may become a little less careful when fully protected, and thus be more prone to noggin' smashin'.


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## mark59 (Nov 11, 2006)

*My new Deviant*

Just returned from Trail Head and picked up the new Helmet. I had no problems putting down $126.00 dollars for this protection. With the 10 percent discount.

I ride an 2006 R6 Yamaha on the street. One guy told me a last year don't ever get on that bike, ever unless you have all your leathers on and your riding boots on ,of course the Helmet goes without saying, I took his advice now for two years. It works . It feels like your naked getting on that bike without all the full gear.

Now i need to apply that same rule to the MB. This is a good start buying a full face Helmet. And its pretty comfortable and light so far. This will be my main helmet as long as I am on the trails. The hardest part will be listening to by friends say " why are you wearing that helmet ? Thats for down hill we are only doing single track"

Thanks for all the great posts on Helmets it motivated me to get off my butt and buy one . And i knew it never made sense to me to have the hardest part of my head protected and the most vulnerable part not protected! I will agree with anyone that they are not as comfortable as an open face helmet and vision is not as good. Being 48 I went through this debate years ago when we all rode on Motocross bikes it was all open face helmets and then I believe it was Bell who came out with the first line of FF helmet. You could listen to all the pros and cons why guys did not like the full face helmets. Bottom line is when you go over the handle bars and do a face plant which can happen on any trail at anytime ,any speed you can have a bloody lip from a full face or you can be in the hospital with a broken nose and missing teeth and broken cheek bones. No one wears open face helmets in Motocross anymore that I see, very few sports of any kind wear open face helmets. I will take the extra heat and discomfort for protection . If you going to wear a helmet at all get one that will give you the most protection and yes it must be comfortable and you can find them. I am not on hear trying to convince myself . I am sharing my thoughts of years of riding motorcycles and bicycles seeing and hearing about crashes that can avoid damage to the body with the right protective gear. Maybe someone will read this and buy a FF . Just like i did. Maybe not. Hope everyone is safe and we don't read any posts of riders getting hurt from lack of protection.


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## mrpercussive (Apr 4, 2006)

mark59 said:


> The hardest part will be listening to by friends say " why are you wearing that helmet ? Thats for down hill we are only doing single track"


forget what your friends say... this is what i look like on China Camp...


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## mark59 (Nov 11, 2006)

mrpercussive said:


> forget what your friends say... this is what i look like on China Camp...


Right on !!! I am right behind you on the protection any recomendations for protection and i am all ears!!


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## mrpercussive (Apr 4, 2006)

mark59 said:


> Right on !!! I am right behind you on the protection any recomendations for protection and i am all ears!!


i'm really liking the 661 SP2 for a pressure suit... very manueverable though it does get pretty hot if you're doing some long climbs... The chest part is just mesh and evs foam. It'll help but not if you're going to get impaled by your bars or whatever. The rest is plastic like cups at the elbows, back and near the shoulders with some small padding. Parts without padding is very breatheble which helps make up for the parts which dont. But i like the manuevariblity on it on the DH and soon after you start going down you just forget it's there.

as for knee pads, there's just too many options out there... Get some which will hold at the knees or quads as well or they'll slip easily. The MX style pads are to be worn under motopants or knee warmers to help prevent that. Other then that, go with some good Dainese or 661 or Azonic or Rockgarden. Be prepared to spend at least $45 for decent knee pads...


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