# She’s 4’10” has 28” inseam and 70lbs



## pachaven (Dec 1, 2005)

My youngest daughter wants to start riding with me again after a six year layoff. We use to ride every weekend with one of those Trail-A-Bike setups and we loved it. Now that she is 14 she wants her own bike. So I have read all of the small women information on the forum and want to run my thinking by you ladies.
1.	Hard Tail due to her weight and as an attempt to keep the bike weight down. 
2.	Custom built Ti frame to give her some compliance.
3.	A SID fork so she can have SOME suspension.

I looked online for a used bike that would fit her but you ladies must never replace your bikes, cuz I can’t find a single used bike in her size. Please tell me if my thinking is wrong in your opinion. And thanks in advance. 
Just a dad wanting to spend some time with his baby:thumbsup:


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## CougarTrek (Jan 27, 2007)

Awesome your daughter wants to ride with you. Your title had me excited; I thought someone's grown girlfriend was smaller than me for a minute 

Anyway,
1) I agree, you can get a nice full suspension that might fit but it's hard and they are $$$ (Titus racer X and YETI ASR come in XXS and are fairly light for what they are, but that's 2k in a frame)

Hardtail will be easier to obtain and is probably better for a re-entry bike.

2) WHOA, wanna adopt me? Another thought would be to get a aluminum frame with carbon seat stays; I think Salsa and Voodoo might come small enough (and production saves you some $$$). You might want to save the custom frame until she's a) really into it and b) done growing. 

3) No idea. I can get the FOX air sprung forks to work great for me (probably all air sprung forks actually...), but I'm 120-130 with gear (and only an inch taller than your daughter...this makes me want to go on a diet!)

4) good luck finding one used, apparently you are right, we never give up our equipment. They come up, but be prepared to stalk ebay and crazedlist for months on end and don't expect the deal of the century. (I bought my frame new, then bought a used bike for parts and am selling that frame).


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## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

Actually, things on ebay are really cheap right now. 

The custom frame sounds rad - if you have the money, why not get a really neat bike for your daughter? Sounds like some of the things my dad did for me as a youth-athlete, things I still think of really fondly. When she outgrows it, pass it on to another Title 9 hopeful. You can get her fork tuned to make it work better - totally worth it. She should do pretty well with a SID. 

Have fun!


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## Ruckusgti (Oct 10, 2007)

Have you thought about maybe 24"?


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*This is how I do it for kids at this age.*

Your daughter is 14 and 4' 10" and, at 70 lbs, slender, coltish, and possibly leggy.

How tall are you and how tall is your mom and your sisters?

How tall is her mom and her aunts, sisters and/or brothers?

Has she had her teen growth spurt or is she in it now?

I guess you have figured out that I value fit first. The 24" is interesting but I think she is at the top end of that so is a poor choice. FWIW I put a small 12 year old boy on an XS Durango Sport with a Judy and a bunch of XT at under 26 lbs and it worked very well.

Not a Lady.


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## pachaven (Dec 1, 2005)

Thanks for all the information and suggestions. I measured her up last night and sent this email to Titus
_Titus,
I am interested in purchasing one of the small frames you sell. It will be for my 14-year-old daughter. 
She is:
Height 58"
Inseam 28"
Torso 20"
Shoulder Width 11"
Arm Length 21"
Weight 70 lbs.
The dealer near me that sells Titus (Revo Cycles) does not have the frames for my daughter to test ride in stock. So I was hoping you could suggest the size frame and stem length that will best fit her. I'm also interested in building her a lite weight bike because she is only seventy pounds, so a recommendation on which frame is the lightest for her would also help.
Thanks for you time,
Mark_
I was on the Titus web site and they have many XXS and XS size frames in Ti and Carbon. I guess that top tube length is going to be the biggest concern and stand over is second. 
She is in the middle of her growth spurt and the women are on the average height side in our family. 5'2 to 5'5 is what she has to look forward to for herself. 
I want her to have a frame that fits now and hopefully allows her to grow into it far a while. But now is the most important thing to me. I can always get her a larger frame when she needs it.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Growing Girls*

Thanks for background.

Fitting her for "now" is a rapidly moving target. If she is 4' 10" @14 she will b 5' 6" or 7" or so @17 or 18. That means that in rough terms on a 26" she will go from a 12.5 to 13.5 to 15 to 17 in that time. The sizes are different for each brand, and method, but I think you get what I mean; we are talking 3-4 frames in as many years for a perfect fit. The frames below "15" will have the shortest window.

Thinking out loud.....I share your enthusiasm for your expectations. You want to give her the best shot at a great experience, to invest her in a world you enjoy so thoroughly which you can share. Ultimately, how cool will it be to see her riding in college on her own? It expresses a certain sense of individual capability as she ventures off into life. Huge.

If I may be frank, it sounds like money is not a big issue. As an outfitter for High School Racers of all athletic levels with dynamically changing teens and a variety of budgets, practicality cannot be ignored. I think fit is most important and when costs are manageable comprehensive fit is more likely. My son, who taught himself to ride at 3.5 is now 15.5 y/o. His bikes have always fit him through attention to seat height, and stem length. As such, the transition phases were handled well. As he got older the components got more sophisticated and moved on to the next frame. He raced last season on a 19" Rockhopper Disc with a bunch of XT at about 30 lbs. We have decided that he is committed. This year we have a 26 lb Dual Suspended Lenz and a 22 lb. Spec Stumpy HT with a Sid.

I offer this as a path. Spend your money up-front on the best components, wheel systems, and the Sid as these are the aspects of the bike that will have the most effect on her pleasure and make bikes light. I had 2 sub-80 pound kids in my YMCA Class this summer and while weight is a factor the quality of components and good tuning were the biggest factors in fun. Find the lightest Aluminum HT frame or frames in XXS or XS and S for her next 18 months and transfer parts as needed. Once she hits about 5' 2" you can pop for a more Chi-Chi frame. If another frame is needed after that, which means she is in for the long haul, then you do that and the last frame has a lot of life and resale value.

Good luck and remember, she is the one riding the bike when she wants. Keep your eye out for other kids for her to ride with. It can be hard when you are not invited along but that is the price of success.


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## pachaven (Dec 1, 2005)

Mike,
Thanks a bunch for you time and thoughts. Priceless!
Mark


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## deanna (Jan 15, 2004)

Berkeley Mike said:


> Fitting her for "now" is a rapidly moving target. If she is 4' 10" @14 she will b 5' 6" or 7" or so @17 or 18. That means that in rough terms on a 26" she will go from a 12.5 to 13.5 to 15 to 17 in that time. The sizes are different for each brand, and method, but I think you get what I mean; we are talking 3-4 frames in as many years for a perfect fit. The frames below "15" will have the shortest window.


Respectfully, I must disagree with your height assessment... at age 14 I was nearly 6' tall. At age 37 (now) I am still nearly 6' tall. Jr High was hell as my 'spurt' happened between ages 11-13, then done by age 14 or so. Since females tend to mature faster than males, she's likely closer to be done growing than most boys would be -- especially since the OP stated most of the women in their family are 5'2" to 5'5".


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## steadite (Jan 13, 2007)

Maybe helps??

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhanes/growthcharts/set1clinical/cj41l022.pdf

According to this, she only has another inch or so to go.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Deanna,were the other females in your clan as statuesque?*

She is 4' 10" at 14 and is tiny at 70 lbs. No special "petite" genetic or pathological condition was suggested by her parent. If she grows to the plan for the females in her family she still grows 4 to 7 inches. I respectfully suggest that your personal example is at a very different part of the curve. By your model she would stay at 4' 10". My suggestion seems more likely save for the possibility that she won't reach a need for a 17 inch frame.

By the way, Deanna, what sort of frame do you ride?


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Buy one from Islabikes, they can ship DHL. Creig 26.

http://www.islabikes.co.uk/bike_pages/creig26.html


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## deanna (Jan 15, 2004)

Berkeley Mike said:


> She is 4' 10" at 14 and is tiny at 70 lbs. No special "petite" genetic or pathological condition was suggested by her parent. If she grows to the plan for the females in her family she still grows 4 to 7 inches. I respectfully suggest that your personal example is at a very different part of the curve. By your model she would stay at 4' 10". My suggestion seems more likely save for the possibility that she won't reach a need for a 17 inch frame.
> 
> By the way, Deanna, what sort of frame do you ride?


I stand by what I originally typed. Check the PDF file posted by steadite (one post up), it was generated by the CDC who are well more versed in this subject than either you or I are. *It has females being done (for the most part) growing by age 14*, which is what I originally stated about her likely not to grow much taller. My example was based on the fact that height changes between myself and female classmates were no longer noticable once we reached the age of 14-15... the males kept growing for a longer time. So unless something goes awry in her system, your guestimate of 5'6" to 5'7" is unlikely.

As for my bicycle frame, it's a Seven, full custom (obviously) and it is not my first mtb (3rd actually). Regular stock fames that were long enough felt like I was trying to manuever a semi on tight city streets (no fun). Smaller frames that felt nimble had me scrunched. So I went custom and got the precise handling characteristics that I was looking for, though I wouldn't recommend custom as a first bike unless it's the only option for a odd-sized person. A person needs to learn exactly what they want from a bike...


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

My gf has a 29" inseam, and the best standover we could find on a dual suspension was the extra-small Santa Cruz Blur XC. Should be plenty rideable for her, with a bit of room to grow. Cambria has the frameset on sale right now for $1300 plus an additional 20% off coupon which would bring it to $1040.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*This is one of the best statements I have heard about*

buying a first bike:

"A person needs to learn exactly what they want from a bike..."

And to your point about growth. Of the 12 girls I have fit at the age of 14 only 2 grew more that 3 inches after that point before graduation. As such, whatever graph you are looking at supports my experience with that sample. However, it is so unlikely that this young lady is done growing as you were at that age. Even if she hits the low end of the average for the women in her family it is 2 bike sizes of change.

I'll bet you here and now, one bag of Margarita flavored Clif Shot Gels, that she tops out at 5' 6". Come on. Throw down!


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## deanna (Jan 15, 2004)

Interesting. First you said:



Berkeley Mike said:


> Fitting her for "now" is a rapidly moving target. If she is 4' 10" @14 she will b 5' 6" or 7" or so @17 or 18.


To which I replied there was no way she'd grow 8" in the next few years, she was more likely to be nearly DONE growing, as I was, at age 14 than to gain those 8".

And now you say:



Berkeley Mike said:


> Of the 12 girls I have fit at the age of 14 only 2 grew more that 3 inches after that point before graduation.


This would put her at nearly finished growing, which was my initial point. So what made you change your mind? May need to cut back on those gels...

I'm done.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*I was simply accommodating your input*

into my model out of respect. We are, after all, exchanging ideas here and creating an understanding, not a finality, and talking about potentials. I think my model robust enough for that, the proof being that even at the lower end of the growth range it still works.

I believe, and this is a different component of my ideas from the model I have put forth, that this young girl still has plenty of growing to do. My guess is that she will just bloom a bit later than most girls and achieve a size within the norms of her family. I have already cited examples of this earlier in this discussion.

As to that, you still haven't answered my question about your size relative to the other people in your family. This is, of course, your privilege as you don't have to tell me anything. However, that information gives you first hand information about size and it's relationship to a specific family group. After all, your own growth model seems to have set your disposition in this matter.

My model might have failed in your case, just as it might with this young lady, as both of these cases may fall at the sides of the bell curve of development. I really cannot say. As you have offered thus far by your description of your middle school experience, you, yourself, are a pretty special aspect of the population. Perhaps this girl is, too. However, as I suggested that the model embraces a pretty large segment of the population and nothing has suggested that this girl cannot anticipate more growth, her potential to grow to family norms, high or low, still stands. I just cannot guarantee it.

I am reminded of a Soph girl on my team who was 5' 11" at 15 and as a Sr. was 6 ft. She went away to college and every time I saw her after that I could swear she grew again. I checked with her dad and he said she had not. She was always a very impressive figure of stature and personality. What I learned with her, and other kids who graduated and would come back to visit, is that these kids DO get bigger. They fill out, get more beautiful and handsome, their voices mellow, they have more presence, they are even more full of life.

As you have shared I will as well. My mother gave birth to me at 17 and grew over an inch after that. In referring to growth charts this is odd, but it happens, at least once.:thumbsup:

By the way i ran into an equation for predicting height for both boys and girls. Try it out for fun.

Girls:

(Dad's height - 13 cm) + (Mom's height)
---------------------------------------------------------
2

Boys:

(Dad's height + 13 cm) + (Mom's height)
---------------------------------------------------------
2

In my case these equations predict my sibs and I to be shorter than we all are by 2 and 3 inches. My guess is that depression era folk, as my parents were, had really crappy diets.

In the case of my nearly 16 y/o son it is pretty dang close though I know he wants to be taller.


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## pachaven (Dec 1, 2005)

What an interesting conversation this has become. I have spoken to a professional bike fitter and to my bike supplier and both agree that my daughter is right now best suited on an XS frame. I was talking to my wife about our daughter and she reminded me that about 8 months back we had our daughters tested for future growth. They did some bone plate testing and determined that our 17 year old was done growing. But my youngest (the 14 year old we are discussing) will continue to grow and is predicted to max out at 5’1 to 5’3. So she has some bike frame changes to come if I buy her a XS now. 
I’m taking some of the suggestions from above and will try to get the best components to hang on whatever frame is selected. I am leaning towards the Titus RX or the Santa Cruz Blur XC as both of these frames are available now and rather inexpensive.
I have some more questions for the small ladies or those in the know.
1. What manufactures offer small grips for small hands?
2. How should I pick a seat for a little girl with a tiny butt?
3. Clipless or Platform?
Thanks again for all who have contributed to this tread. It has helped immensely.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*I hope you will keep us posted*

Best wishes.


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## LyndaW (Jul 22, 2005)

chuky said:


> The custom frame sounds rad - if you have the money, why not get a really neat bike for your daughter? Sounds like some of the things my dad did for me as a youth-athlete, things I still think of really fondly.
> Have fun!


Wow Chuky you are so smart! My dad did this for my sisters and I when we were growing up. We are all a little smaller than average and having equipment that fit was light and fast kept us on an even playing field with the bigger kids. We grew up being players because of this.

I honestly have never thought about it from this angle before. I called up my dad today and thanked him for this. We took it for granted growing up and it took me until I was 39 yrs old to call him and say thanks...


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## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

My Dad (a cowboy, who grew up pretty poor) had me in GoreTex gear and as many pairs of running shoes as I wanted at a very early age. Never forgotten how much his athleticism and encouragement influenced my life, but it also helped that I was never cold, my gear fit well and my racing flats were the coolest ones on the track... When I asked for my first real MTB, I got a $500 bike - at a time when spending more than $100 on a bike was HUGE.

My sisters and I all ended up really athletic and independent - one sister rowed Pac-10 crew to a national championship and the other coaches kid's basketball in NYC in her spare time (when she isn't doing her MBA or working on her executive shark impersonation). I give all the credit to my Dad (and Mom), who never saw any reason why we shouldn't have the best he could afford. We weren't spoiled, we didn't get a lot of "cool" things, but we certainly never wanted for the things that made sports a pleasure from a kid's perspective. Yeay, Dads!


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*What is remembered.....*

What I see as I look back at the kids I have worked with over the last 35 years is their faces. The broad amiability, fluidity, and mercurial nature of children can make them hard to support at times with precious resources. What I try to offer, in spite of the push-pull of reality, is that I take them all dead seriously and bring whatever I can to that interphase.

Anyone who knows me knows that sometimes I go over the top. Yet that is part of the price. The best analogy I have is that of Sir Lancelot rescuing Sir Galahad from the Swamp Castle in the Quest for the Holy Grail.


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## Fabulous (Jan 20, 2008)

*same stats*

I had the same stats at age 14. The women in my family range from 4' 11" to 5' 8". I ended up at 5' 1/2" by age 16 and stayed there.

As for small seats for small tushies... The specialized seats come in a rather narrow version, as do many other brands. IMO finding a seat that has a little padding, but not too much and with a cut out for her soft parts should work. Seats are such a personal thing that she may need to try a number of them before she finds "The One".

Kuddos to you for all the effort you are putting into quality time with your daughter.  Good luck!


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

My wife is 4'10" 85lbs and she has been riding a Trek Fuel EX WSD (14") this year. She loves it. The standover is great with the SID that we put on it. She rides a 50mm stem and uses Titec Hellcat bars which have a reduced diameter in the grip area for small hands. This also means special grips (titec also), but that is the tradeoff. With the air fork and shock it is pretty easy to get the suspension to work for her. 
I would be happy to snap some pics of her setup if you would like.

adam

spam...the bike is for sale


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*The bike is for sale?*

The one you worked so hard to fit? Would you care to share why?


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## MichauxYeti (Nov 10, 2005)

Here's the bike my daughter rides. She was about the same size as your daughter when we first bought this. You could build up a similar bike for the cost of the custom ti frame you mentioned. The wheels have a Notubes conversion which allows significantly lower pressure and more compliance. The SID fork is also great for lighter riders as it is very adjustable and lightweight.


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## pangster (Mar 11, 2005)

Hi,

I'm 4"10" with a 26" standover. I currently ride a XXS 2007 Titus Racer X. I love it. I had always had problems with the TT being too long and the Titus is the first bike I've had where the TT feels perfect. I also use a 70mm stem. As for a saddle, i don't have any hips so i use a men's saddle. I currently use the selle italia gel flow SLR. I use ESI silicone grips. I say go clipless from the start. I love eggbeaters. good luck

d


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## pachaven (Dec 1, 2005)

*Thank You, Thank You, THANK YOU!!!*

To all who have been so kind to me and the help you gave to my daughter, Thank You:thumbsup: My friend just sent the pictures of the bike I got for Lindsey. I hope she will be happy on Christmas morning.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Zowie!*

I can't wait to see her ride. Start slow and work up to things. Have fun.:thumbsup:


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## pangster (Mar 11, 2005)

good call on the Titus. I love mine. Lucky girl. I had to wait until i was 31 before i got one


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

Berkeley Mike said:


> The one you worked so hard to fit? Would you care to share why?


Simple fact is she wants more travel. I introduced her to lift assisted riding this year and she loved it. She reached the limits of a 100mm bike, so I would like to build her a transition syren (150mm) bike this winter. I plan on building it as light as possible so we can still ride some up too.

She rode a Rocky Mountain Slayer SS in XS at Whistler this summer and she really liked it. The Syren has a shorter top tube and she has pedaled one around. For a 6" bike its amazing how well it fits.

adam


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Wow, that is a sweet first ride  I bet she'll be super happy when she sees that under the tree. if it fits as in the photo, I think you'll be able to use it for a little bit yet, maybe a setback post and slightly longer stem would see her through another couple inches growth before you need to look for a bigger frame.


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