# What makes a successful bike shop?



## bhunter (Apr 19, 2008)

Let's hear it. In your mind what does it take to run a successful bike shop? I would like to hear from everyone; current and former owners or shop employees, consumers, reps, etc.

I am opening a shop and want to hear it all.

Thanks


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## denjen (Jan 30, 2004)

Biggest thing for me is friendly, courteous and knowledgeable staff. Nothing turns me off a shop quicker than one of those 3 things not happening. 

Carry a selection of small parts that may be needed. And be willing to sell just the one or 2 small parts with out making the customer buy a whole kit. For instance I needed a couple crush washers for rebuilding my Pike. Shop didn't have them but was willing to just get me what I needed. 

Be willing to try and match Internet pricing if possible. I'm not saying lose money on stuff, but if I knew a store around me was willing to get close to internet pricing I would use them a lot.


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## Aaron D (Dec 14, 2005)

service, service, service.

don't ever stop giving the best possible service you can.

letting a couple dollars slide ,will always pay off big in the end.

keeping the locals happy is the key, because most people will always come back to you.

make sure regulars feel like regulars, newbie riders will soon be your regular customers and deserve the same respect.

service!

oh and pay your mechanics lots and lots of money


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Consumer here:

1. Friendly and professional service. No bike shop is going to be able to beat online prices, but service is something online shops can't offer. Along these lines, don't be afraid to pay employees well to keep them around. 

2. Hire employees that ride a lot and are involved in the bike community. They will have connections, make new connections, and bring people into the shop.

3. Knowledgeable staff. Again, this is something that online shops lack but will keep new and experienced riders coming back. Don't put a know-nothing college student out on the floor.

4. Parts and Accessory Pricing. Get as close as you can to online prices regardless of margins. Plan the business from the get go to not make a whole hunk of money on parts. You may get someone to spend $150 on pedals once, but when they realize they were $85 online they'll feel cheated and never come back.

5. Service Pricing. Offer services a-la-carte rather than just having a "tune-up" fee. It's great to bring in a wheel and have it trued for $10, or a cassette changed for $5. Charge only for a the work done, not a package price. 

6. Offer discounts to card-carrying members of local cycling groups and clubs. Give the best deals to the people who will keep coming back for years and tell their riding buddies about it.


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## guilev (Dec 31, 2010)

denjen said:


> Biggest thing for me is friendly, courteous and knowledgeable staff. Nothing turns me off a shop quicker than one of those 3 things not happening.


I agree 100%. :thumbsup:


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## gmtx77 (May 18, 2010)

Here's a few I'd start with......

Make sure you have good wrenchers who know their stuff. Pay them well and do everything in your power to keep them once they've proven their stuff.

Same as above for your floor salespeople. Treat your people like family. 

Try hiring a 15 year old kid for Saturdays. Nobody relates to a kid better than another kid. 

Don't try to nickel and dime me to death. And please, please don't try to BS me. 

Carry solid products that have a proven performance history. Don't carry crap.

Give free bottled water and coffee. Build an environment where people actually want to hang around. Do group rides or events. Have a BBQ. 

Hire a good accountant.


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## pointerDixie214 (Feb 10, 2009)

Everything said above, and to not have an elitist attitude. One bike shop in town (the one closest to my house) has some of the best prices and biggest inventory in town too. But I refuse to shop there because the two times I went in I was looked down upon and it was obvious I wasn't good enough to shop there. So I took their hints and haven't been back. Spent over $4000 in my LBS that I found as a result of not going there though. That was just in 2010 too...


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## Aaron D (Dec 14, 2005)

gmtx77 said:


> Here's a few I'd start with......
> 
> Make sure you have good wrenchers who know their stuff. Pay them well and do everything in your power to keep them once they've proven their stuff.
> 
> ...


we also do free bottles, kickstands, cages and esspresso. but the espresso is in the back with us  lol


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## Rock (Jan 13, 2004)

Customer here.

Have good parts on hand. Hell, I can "order that" just as well as you can. I came in to walk out with something I need.

I do most of my own service so that is no draw for me.

Don't be elitist about brands you don't carry.

There is a shop about an hour from me that is the closest dealer for my bike brand. I've been in there personally 4 times in 4 years, though it was twice for warranty stuff (drop off, pick up). When I walk in they know my name......it ALWAYS floors me. They know me when I call on the phone to get brand specific parts. I recommend them to everyone. When I need to buy a new bike, there is no doubt in my mind it will be from them. And I won't be haggling them down for invoice prices.

Rock


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## bhunter (Apr 19, 2008)

*Thanks for all the solid input.*

One of the big things I am striving for with my shop is no attitude. For me that elitist attitude will turn me away from even the best deal.

More, more, more.


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## Mr Cabletwitch (Apr 16, 2009)

Just like any business....

Location, Location, Location.

Not having ****** bag employees helps too, most of the people on the internet are going to tell you a million things but in the end if you have a strong location and good people skills you can be successful... Of course Location considers other things like competition or lack there of as well.


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## 29eritarider (Dec 18, 2010)

a couple things people didn't mention, for thoose of us who dont have alot of money or want to get a cheap bike working again for cheap keep a decent supply of used parts from customer upgrades who didn't want there old junk.....when you can give these parts out for free or cheap it really makes people happy,....when asking the question "do you have any used parts" and being looked at as though you are holding a "will look for food" sign, wearing a beat to hell trench coat makes me want to never come back to your shop ever again.....

also offer people who are regulars confident in there mechanical skills (such as someone like myself who works on cars for a living) the access to a bike stand if you are slow and not using all of yours....it makes me very happy when bike shops offer me a bike stand and there tools instead of a bill for a job i was more then capable of completing on my own


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## watkinscapital (Sep 14, 2010)

1.vibe (no debbie downers)
2.selection (having the ability to order if not in stock)
3.employee's (this relates to vibe)
4.knowledge (this relates to employees knowing their product)
5.community involvement (its been said but I say it again and think it goes a long way)


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## miatagal96 (Jul 5, 2005)

All of the above.

Staff must be very knowledgeable and able to cater to a wide variety of customers. Know the local trails and be able to point people to find a good trail and rides appropriate to their level. If no rides exist, consider hosting events such as skills clinics, bike demo events, maintenance clinics, etc. Beginner-leven rides are important so people who don't have the skills and conditioning don't get frustrated and abandon the sport. Today's beginners who really get into the sport will start upgrading.

Turn around bike service quickly. I stopped going to the place I bought my first bike (even though they gave me excellent advice) because I had to leave my bike there for at least a week for any service item. They wouldn't let me make an appointment and bring it in--I had to leave it there. 

It's always fun to go into a bike store when they have bike videos playing as well. Not only is it good entertainment, but it sells more videos.


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

Don't underestimate the power of reputation. 

You can have the best prices, best service, best product, best location - but if your reputation is tarnished, it will affect business.

As a statutory agent for a large fraternal organization, my wife and I essentially run our own business. An untarnished reputation is what keeps me afloat in a very difficult industry. I have had nothing but 20% increases in income every year for the past 8 years.

In this day and age of information's ability to spread fast... all it takes is a couple of bad experiences from customers and it spreads like wild fire - this is difficult to repair UNLESS you have advocates to combat it. Also, don't forget - you are doing this to make a living, so sometimes business decisions may not be the "friendliest". Employees sometimes will expect you to save them - but if it hurts the business, you have to replace them. That is difficult as a business owner.

Build a solid foundation; earn trust by providing consistent value above and beyond people's expectations and you should do fine. Expect to work for "free" a lot of the time. From business owner to upcoming business owner, this is the best advice I can give. 





A cute, knowledgable girl behind the counter helps, too.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

Depends on the type of shop you want to run. If you want to make money with less headaches and love getting your average citizen out on bikes, focus on low to mid range bikes aimed at families and the repair side of the business. Advertise in local mailers and sponsor local community events.

If you don't mind a few headaches in exchange for getting to work on a lot of high end bikes and components, you need to focus on the locals who will be purchasing from you. Sponsor races, barbeques, group rides and trail maintenance projects. Keep in constant contact with the local riders through social media. Hire serious riders. Understand and accept the fact that people are going to bring in mail order parts to be installed, and don't pillage them for it out of spite.


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## ride_nw (Jan 12, 2010)

I think a lot of places feel too much like a bro hangout. It's good to make the shop comfortable but I know I have walked into a few shops where unless you were part of the "in" crowd you weren't getting any attention. Quit talking with your friends about some stupid ride you did and come over here and sell me something. I walked in for a reason!

If I am looking for a certain part, I don't need to be told that it is overkill or conversely not burly enough for the riding around here. I have more than one bike and I travel. Take my money. Please.

You may have strong preferences on parts and riding styles, but let the customer spend their money how they want to. It's not your bike. You can make suggestions but if they are set on buying a certain part let them do it. Don't make them feel like a chump because they aren't using the coolest tire or fork or pedals or whatever a pro rider like you would use.

Consider hiring a female, bikes shops don't need to feel like a sausage party. Especially if a chunk of your (potential) market is of the fairer sex.

Minor detail but please get some good platform pedals for test rides. I think a lot of riders are turned off on platforms because they have only ridden pedals like this so they never understand there is any viable alternative to clipless.


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## ride_nw (Jan 12, 2010)

Also I think the big question is why are you opening a bike shop?

Do you like working retail? This is probably more important than the fact that you like bikes.


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## JEM2 (Feb 25, 2010)

I agree with all the above info..

The things that stands out for me at my LBS is the service... i can walk in anytime of day and say "I crashed and now my break is sticking" the guys will take a quick look at it and either so the two minute fix (thats all it took) or say " you need to leave it with us for the night" 
The also give me free race tune-ups before each of my races

They are also a ski shop in the winter so I buy all my childs stuff through them (they do not have adult equipment) YTD I have spent (2010) around 4k with them and I have a new carbon road bike on order that will arrive in March.... I will also be getting my wife a FS bike this year too... Then my son will need a new bike this summer so three bikes this year for them from me.. 

All of the staff knows me, my wife, and my son 

They are also the main meeting point for the local bike club and do "free" training on trainers in March/April

Thats it for now... I have to head to the bike shop!!!
JEM


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## Bad Idea (Jun 14, 2009)

In addition to everything else that has been said, a nice looking female employee or two goes a long way:thumbsup:


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## amateur_soldier (Mar 17, 2010)

Have a sales person for each kind of bike (one for mtn bikes, one for DH bike, one fro road bikes etc)
Be attentive but not too much (ask if they need help, if they don't back away, but be there)
Carry a good selection
Do not assume all kids are going to steal stuff
Do not assume you cannot afford parts


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## etuck (Feb 9, 2007)

Community. There is a local shop by me that has done a tremendous job of building a sense of community among their customers. Group rides, coffee in shop, presence at races, xmas parties, email lists, blogs, facebook pages, etc. 

When I bump into guys wearing their kit on the road or mountain I will always say hello. Makes you feel almost disloyal going to another shop. I'll actually willingly pay a premium to get my stuff from them and the competition here in terms of other shops (SF area) is insane. 

Of course, the success of this community is based on the employees being good guys you'd want to spend time with (and strong riders). 

Good luck!


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

Bad Idea said:


> In addition to everything else that has been said, a nice looking female employee or two goes a long way:thumbsup:


this is a really good point. the reality is guys don't apparel shop. women like to try on clothing and that perspective is really important to them. they won't be as intimidated when they're getting info on things either. Plus it would help with your buying when it comes to wmns apparel. The addition of a great female employee is essential. ...and yeah...guys roll up to the counter to her like a hot bartender


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## skrap1r0n (Oct 15, 2010)

First, good service to folks that are in experienced or new to the sport. 

We recently bought our first bikes, and honestly, it was the store that was the final decision, not the bike. The sales person was kind and was able to explain the difference to us between a $400 bike, a $600 bike and a $1000 bike. As newbies, we had no idea.

Second, Free clinics for basics, fixing tires, basic maintenance etc, and fairly inexpensive clinics for the more intermediate maintenance items. 

Third, have range of pricing on items. 

One thing about just starting out is that we didn't want to spend $200 bucks to see if we liked clipless. REI and some of the other LBS's we went to had an entry fee of between $175 - $200 just to get Pedals and Shoes. We actually went to an LBS to see what size we wore in euro sizing, then had every intention of ordering online. We manages to find a local shop that sold us shoes and pedals for $80 bucks.

Finally, try to sell people what they actually need, not what you want to sell them. 

When I first started looking, one sales guy was intent on selling me a $1500 FS bike. I was like umm I'm not sure I am even going to like doing this, what do you have for entry level. And he pointed to an $700 hardtail. I asked about a $500 hardtail and he said I wouldn't want that, and didn't really have an answer when I asked why, other than talking about lockouts and hydraulic brakes. I don't think I have been back to that store since.


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

*Great Post Question, BHunter...*

My answers come from three different angles: As a Clydesdale consumer, As a (former) Inside Sales Rep for a Raleigh/Diamondback Bikes, and now as a part time sales rep for a LBS. These are in no particular order of importance, but they will make or break you if you don't do them right.

Service Dept: Have a good mechanic who can devote the vast majority of his/her time doing nothing but wrenching is key. In fact, I know of several shops that have startred out as "bike repair only" shops and have grown into succesful LBS's. The other advantage of having a full time tech is that it keeps you ahead on repairs. I've been to shops that were taking 1-2 weeks to return bikes for tune ups. 2 weeks?!?!?!:nono:

Sales/Customer service staff: Make sure your staff knows the product that you carry. Nothing is worse than when a customer knows more about the products that you carry than you do. I've walked out of shops that this has happened to me and I know of many others who feel the same. Hiring cyclist is a good move but be sure they are guys/gals that you can trust. Nothing is worse than trusting someone then to find out they have been stealing from you. Like someone else also said, your staff should not be elitist (sp?) that's also another big turn off for customers.

Parts & Accesories: Keep as many small parts on hand as you can aford too. It's the stupid little things like brake pads, spacers, BMX crank arms, cables, etc; that you would use for repairs or sales that some shops never seem to have in stock. Once the word gest out that you're the shop that always has to order parts, people will go elsewhere.

Products: If you haven't already chosen what brands you plan to bring in, I would suggest you bring in at least one big name brand (Specialize, Trek, etc) then one value added brand (Iron horse, Raleigh, etc) This way you will attract both the buyers who are more concerned about name brand as well as those who are more concerned with price.

A happy up beat shop creats an atmospher where consumers feel at home in and will come back again and again.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

Be Rider Owned. nothing reeks worse than burnout. passion spreads the stoke!


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## Guy Cool (Oct 3, 2008)

Rather than let people use your stand and tools in the shop you may want to set up a customer repair stand outside or somewhere that won't be in your way if a new customer walks in. Also, a wash area and wash tools. Look at the business model of Poison Spyder in Moab and Over the Edge in Fruita.


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## roxnroots (Aug 12, 2010)

Here's what a truly GREAT shop will do:

1.) Support their local mtb club's members with a discount, 10% in my shop's case.

2.) Host their local mtb club's monthly meetings and make arrangements for food/beverages from a local restaurant.

3.) Sell only the highest-quality gear that will work exactly as advertised.

4.) Employ really nice guys to wrench for them who actually ride, know how to fix your ride, and can honestly recommend great component upgrades to your ride you'll be happy with. If you don't know something, they won't be snotty with you either.

5.) BIG - you know your regular, year-round serious riders who need their rigs back FAST and you do everything in your power to get them their ride back PDQ.

6.) You fix problems other shops can't fix and you do the finetune dial-ins for guys that no one else can.

7.) EVEN BIGGER - You recognize your regular customers who spend serious coin in your place and quickly fix minor issues while they wait quickly and often free of charge if material costs or serious labor aren't involved. You aren't required to do this but its really appreciated.

8.) You don't sell crap bikes - yeah, you have a range of different types of bikes at different pricepoints but you don't sell junk.

9.) At heart you're a serious MTB-first shop even if you're competent in other types of cyclery too. I need to know you get what I do, if I wanted a roadie shop, I'd go to one.

10.) Being kind/generous with your customers/good employees while keep an eye on the books so that you still earn a living and sleep OK at night. Good luck with this one!

Here are some things a GREAT customer should do for a GREAT shop that does these things:

1.) Get your friends, family, and neighbors looking for a good LBS to them with your trusted recommendation. A LBS needs all the business it can get.

2.) Be willing to pay a little more for great service right there in your neighborhood. Yeah, not everyone has the skill or time to wrench every problem on their rig - they're lucky if they have time to ride.

3.) Be patient if a part or repair takes longer than you expect - give a good LBS the benefit of the doubt that it's not their problem.

4.) Appreciate the little things they'll do for you as a loyal customer but remember they're not required to do these freebie as they have bills to pay too.

5.) Buy your ride and component upgrades from them if possible. It isn't always but try.

6.) Don't be a know-it-all cheapa$$ed jerk.

7.) Never have them build-up a custom rig for you on trust and you back out of the purchase leaving them stuck trying to sell the ride at whatever price they can get. Same thing for expensive special -order gear.

8.) Give your LBS guys a gift now and then if they clearly seem to care about your ride as much as you do.


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## Scooby-doo (Jul 26, 2004)

*Do not bring in the big brands as suggested above.*

No Trek, Specialized, Giant or Cannondale. They will want all of your store and then let you know what brand to carry or not carry. Raleigh is a good suggestion. There are a lot of brands that have great bikes besides the big 4. Each and every year other companies are filling nitches where those other 4 use to be the only players. If you carried any of these brands Raleigh, Felt, Ibis, Jamis, Kona, Santa Cruz or Orbea you could get away from the bigger brands that demand floor space and $ value and work with companies that are happy to have you and work with you. That way the love gets spread out evenly amongst the companies and maybe the big 4 will stop driving up prices because they hold the market. Not grind you for everything you are worth. Everyone makes quality bikes these days but you need to decide whether you want to run your shop or a bike company to run your shop. Service, a good sales staff, a woman on staff and bike riders that ride in the community and you will be set. Good luck.


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## bhunter (Apr 19, 2008)

*wow,*

lots of great advise.

I was sort of afraid to post this question out of fear that I would get a lot of if you have to ask then you don't know @#$^!

All of the advise so far has been great. Some things I already had on my list and others that need to be added.

Thanks, and keep it coming.


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## thorkild (Jul 22, 2008)

Amazing how universal the answers are here, yet how many bike shops fall far short of these goals. As a customer, I like shops that have a large volume of high quality inventory (that's what brings in people off the street, but it requires a huge capital outlay) and that have salespeople and wrenches who are friendly and helpful.

But, I think its more important to recognize what will make your shop unsuccessful:

1. Don't belittle other high quality brands that you don't carry! It looks like you're being dishonest. I have had a shop employees tell me many times that such well regarded brands as Ibis, Turner, Knolly, Ellsworth, etc. were bad while extolling the virtues of a Specialized or Giant. If you have a brand favorite, that's fine, but don't belittle other brands. The better approach is to say that the other brand has an excellent reputation, but you don't carry them and you think the brand you carry is also a great choice for xx reasons.

2. Don't nickle and dime people for service. If someone comes in on their commute home and with a broken chain and they just need a chain tool to fix a link and get on their way, let them borrow the chain tool or do it yourself in a minute for free. If you dicker around with telling them they need to buy a new chain or pay 10 for a new link and wait a 1/2 hour for service, they'll never come back. If you throw them a bone and help out, they'll send their friends your way.

Good luck to you!


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## roxnroots (Aug 12, 2010)

bhunter said:


> I was sort of afraid to post this question out of fear that I would get a lot of if you have to ask then you don't know @#$^!


Hey, we're nice guys!


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## gxglass (Aug 26, 2010)

*demos*

My $.02. I bought my first MTB (< $1K) last summer and will probably be in the market for an upgrade in 2011. I'll probably be spending a bunch more money, and I'm going to want to know what the bike is like on a trail, not just a parking lot and going over some curbs. I think I'll be much more likely to buy from a shop that (for a reasonable fee) lets me demo a bunch of bikes on a nearby trail. Not all shops do this, it seems (obviously, it's a lot of work for a shop to set up an event like this). There are lots of shops with friendly service, good mechanics, etc. But if it's easier for me, as a consumer, to test somebody else's product, chances are I'm more likely to buy from them, too.


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## GFAthens (Sep 10, 2009)

1. A friendly, welcoming atmosphere. A good LBS will make someone who comes right off the street feel welcome. They will welcome new customers with curteousy and will treat consistent customers with curteousy and respect as well. 

2. A good selection of relatively inexpensive, handpicked componentry. Some of my favorite LBS' make good recommendations about little things, like grips for instance, as well as bigger componentry, like cranksets. These components have been tried by members of the shop and they know the ins and outs of their use and wear characteristics.


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

*The problems with demos are...*



gxglass said:


> My $.02. I bought my first MTB (< $1K) last summer and will probably be in the market for an upgrade in 2011. I'll probably be spending a bunch more money, and I'm going to want to know what the bike is like on a trail, not just a parking lot and going over some curbs. I think I'll be much more likely to buy from a shop that (for a reasonable fee) lets me demo a bunch of bikes on a nearby trail. Not all shops do this, it seems (obviously, it's a lot of work for a shop to set up an event like this). There are lots of shops with friendly service, good mechanics, etc. But if it's easier for me, as a consumer, to test somebody else's product, chances are I'm more likely to buy from them, too.


Many. As the dealer, the shop often has to buy the demo bikes from the manufacutre. they are sometimes not sold to them at a cheaper price than what a regular bike would have sold for. They MIGHT get a discount on their bill down the road, but only if the demo program was a success. Then, the shop is stucked with a used bike which it's often unable to sell. :madman: That is, if the bike doesn't grow legs and walk away on it's own. Believe it or not, some people give false and/or stolen information so when the bike isn't return, there is nothing the shop can do to recoup it's loss.

So when you're ready to make that purchase, be prepared to "demo" the bike in the parking lot of the shop. Read up on your reviews of the bike you're concidering in your favorite website for mountain bike riding: www.mtbr.com/reviews :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## davthedude (Feb 12, 2005)

Heres one support the local community promote a local race, the ms 150 in your area,cycle cross in the fall what evers going on and dont forget those that swing the picks and shovels on trail days and pick up the trash others leave behind. You will make friends this way.


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## gxglass (Aug 26, 2010)

Mellow Yellow said:


> Many. As the dealer, the shop often has to buy the demo bikes from the manufacutre. they are sometimes not sold to them at a cheaper price than what a regular bike would have sold for. They MIGHT get a discount on their bill down the road, but only if the demo program was a success. Then, the shop is stucked with a used bike which it's often unable to sell. :madman: That is, if the bike doesn't grow legs and walk away on it's own. Believe it or not, some people give false and/or stolen information so when the bike isn't return, there is nothing the shop can do to recoup it's loss.
> 
> So when you're ready to make that purchase, be prepared to "demo" the bike in the parking lot of the shop. Read up on your reviews of the bike you're concidering in your favorite website for mountain bike riding: www.mtbr.com/reviews :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Maybe this is something the MTB industry as a whole could do better on. The manufacturers should make more demo bikes available, and the dealers should push the events more. IMHO they are almost certainly leaving money on the table. Maybe instead of a $4K bike I'll buy a $2K bike because I can't appreciate the difference in the parking lot. By way of comparison, how many luxury/performance cars would be sold if customers had to demo them only in parking lots and side streets?

As far as bogus ID's/credit cards, surely this is a solvable problem. Run the customer's card in the store the day before the demo. I'd be perfectly happy to show up at an LBS to spend 5 minutes for them to verify my credit prior to riding around with their bikes.

I think the problem is that most LBS's and probably a lot of bike manufacturers are just too small to think about arranging stuff like this. The bike manufacturers should step up and make it easy for the LBS's to hold events.

Anyhow, to the OP, if you can come up with an efficient way for people to try your product in their preferred environment, I think it would be a key competitive advantage.


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## EMrider (Sep 9, 2007)

Customer here who just wants to ride and does not like or know how to wrench on my own bikes beyond the basics.

Make your competitive edge service and quality, not price. Real life stores cannot beat the internet on price. Do not waste your time and energy trying to attract and retain customers who only care about "getting the best deal". These people are impossible to please, have no loyalty and will drain your resources while generating zero profit for your store. Charge fair prices and give people top quality service. That means always getting it right the first time and doing things on time. Bike stores are a dime a dozen, but most fail to deliver consistently high quality service over time. I am loyal to one store in my area even though they have neither the lowest prices or the best selection of products. I go there because their service people always get it right the first time. They also offer lifetime free tune-ups for any bike they sell. I may only utilize this benefit once a year, but knowing that they will make any necessary adjustment for free keeps me coming back and spending my money in their store. It also keeps the bikes they sell from collecting dust in the garage. The more people actually ride, the more they will patronize their LBS.

Be professional, not a quasi-clubhouse for all the local biker dudes. A good and positive vibe is great, but a members only apmosphere will turn people away. 

Try and avoid carrying the major brands unless you deem it really necessary. There are literally dozens of bike shops in my area that sell the big brands. Be an original and offer any number of quality lower volume brands.

Unless you have a lot of floorspace, do not try and cater to every type of customer or rider. Have some focused area of expertise.

Find good people and create the right incentives for them to stay and work hard.

Best of luck in your venture.
R


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Treat customers in the same manner that you would expect to be treated, even if that means bouncing between 3 at a time. Just a little acknowledgment goes a long way.

Be willing to do a quick on the spot repair (even if you need to swap a bike out of the stand) for a customer in need. This goes a long way...


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## roxnroots (Aug 12, 2010)

RipRoar said:


> Treat customers in the same manner that you would expect to be treated, even if that means bouncing between 3 at a time. Just a little acknowledgment goes a long way.
> 
> Be willing to do a quick on the spot repair (even if you need to swap a bike out of the stand) for a customer in need. This goes a long way...


+1. My LBS is excellent about this - I spend a decent amount on mtbs and gear each year and their willingness to get my bike into the stand and get it fixed right while I wait ensures that they get virtually 100% of my mtb $ each year. I absolutely won't go anywhere else to save a buck or two when I get that level of service and I'll do what I can to drum up business from other mtbrs I know looking for a new shop. :thumbsup:


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## neveride (Feb 7, 2004)

Great customer service.

Enough employees so that customers don't have to wait when you're busy.

Clean, organized store that feels like someone gave a crap about how it was set up.

Be reliable--if you say something will be done by a certain time, have it done by that time.

If you say a part will be in on a certain day, make sure it is.

Train your employees--to be both knowledgeable about what they service and sell, as well as courteous and friendly towards ALL customers. Usually your bread and butter customers are not the guys and gals riding the high end bikes.

Don't treat your employees like you're doing them a favor by having them work there. Make them feel they have a vested interested in the shop, in the customers, and you'll end up with better employees who find ways to get and keep customers.

Be socially (rides, events, etc) and community (benefits,etc) directed. Make the shop a place to go even if you don't necessarily need to buy something.


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

As a customer: 

I don't want to buy a BB tool, when it's one of those tools that I'll likely be using once or twice in the life of a bike. Offer a time/place for customers to use your tools so they can do their own wrenching. Hell, my chain tool broke. There's nothing more embarrassing than bringing the bike in for a chain replacement 

And make it a friendly atmosphere to everyone. I realize that the local trails are nearly exclusively downhill, but that doesn't mean the shop has to be solely a DH/BMX hangout. It's weird walking in there with my 70mm hardtail on the back of my car.

My LBS is almost exclusively DH/BMX. I don't like going there because of that. Yes, they're great people (even replaced a tube and tire and let me ride away on a line of store credit), but the general atmosphere isn't somewhere where I would like to spend my time.


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## riiz (Jul 8, 2010)

First, Great Customer Service that is knowledgeable, approachable, and is a fellow cyclist.

Second, well-payed and passionate mechanics. I Iike when a mechanic can get a tune-up done in a day or two, the quicker the better, and get small tasks done as you wait. Plus letting customers use tools and not making it a pain in the ass to bring a bike into the store helps too.


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## Wild Wassa (Jun 4, 2009)

bhunter, I can't figure out how to service the bearings on a WTB LaserDisk Lite hub. On the rotor side it is as smooth as silk still but on the other side it feels dryish no matter which way I spin it ... and it is slightly grating. I want to service the hub myself, what tools do you suggest that I need to dismantle this expensive hub. Is this Lithium TF2 Lubricant that the guy over there sold me, the best bearing grease in your store? ... you're the Boss. I don't want to talk to your lackeys. I find them rude and patronising!

I'm all ears Mr bhunter.

You have given us little to nothing about yourself Mate. So, tell us why we should give you our custom. Why should I spend my hard earned bucks in your store? It is our turn to pick your brains now? What do I need to do about my dry expensive hub that I bought in your store last month? Quality is driven from the top Boss Man, so what do I need to do to sort-out my problemos? How can I open this hub?

I'm not leaving your store until you answer my questions! Or give me my $400 bucks back!

Warren.

PS, Welcome to life in the semi-fast lane ... on the cycle paths.


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## bloodyknee (Jul 29, 2008)

Lot's of good input so far. The biggest deals for me are: 

Staff atttidue - Knowledgable, informative, personable. I don't need some arrogant, condescending A-hole trying to make me feel like a POS because I don't know as much about bikes as he does or because I can't spend $3K on bike. 

Product - I know this is a cash flow, store size thing, but I hate going into a store that doesn't have inventory. I know you can't carry every brand of bike, but make sure you have complementary lines of bikes that cover entry level through advanced models. If you sell parts, stock a good selection. 

Price - You probably won't be able to meet on line prices, but please work with us on this. 

Vibe - I want a cool place to go. Sometimes I just want to look around, smell a bike shop or get a break from a stressful day at work. No need to intimidate me, I want to relax and feel welcome. 

Community - Group rides (all levels), sponser a local race team, show up for trail work days. You're creating a great image and good reputation here. 

Good luck.


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

gmtx77 said:


> Here's a few I'd start with......
> 
> Make sure you have good wrenchers who know their stuff. Pay them well and do everything in your power to keep them once they've proven their stuff.
> 
> ...


pretty much it man, and hire people who are into the road riding and mountain biking that way you have some one that shares a interest with all your customers, oh and also so one into bmx if theirs a bmx culture were your opening:thumbsup:.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

No *****bag salespeople. - There's a clown at one LBS that tries to push a $150 "custom bike fitting" on every customer.  A real turnoff. 

The courtesy to give you a box from the dumpster without trying to sell it to you. - Same LBS. I'd been a customer for years and requested to pilfer a box from their dumpster for a frame I sold and had to ship. They wanted to charge me $25.

Clean visible well lit work area for the mechs. - I, for one, enjoy seeing a well set up mechanics area in action. gives me some faith in the work being done.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

*don't forget to pay yourself!!* (when you finally can, ofcourse)


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## marzjennings (Jan 3, 2008)

Service service service; in my LBS pretty much everyone is a mechanic and the repair area is open and takes up a 1/5 of the floor space. It's one of those guys who steps out to help you with your request/purchase and not an on the floor sales guy. For example the other day I walked in to ask about getting a wheel trued. I was looking for maybe a 2-3 day turn around to get the wheel ready for the weekend, but after a quick look the mechanic took the wheel and was done in under 10 minutes and I was out of the shop all done, sweet. I dealt with one person, who greeted me, handled the problem, felt empowered to adjust their work schedule and competed the sale and purchase. Another store that I've used only once (and never again) had the system of one person takes the wheel, another (who'll never see) works on it and yet another person will bill you. While all the time a sales guy will ask if you need any help.

I guess I'm saying don't hide the repair area around the back, but make it part of the store and experience.

Price: Sorry forget it, you're not going to compete with direct shipping from China and ebay. Or be able to stock every spare part for every bike or part sold in the last 10 years. Just be the guys who are open to work on any part or bike regardless of where it came from. I know there are some shops who won't touch anything that they haven't sold you directly and I think they're missing the point. Last time I took my car in for a service the garage I went to didn't car where I bought the car. Imagine being the store that says,'Sure that bike you just ordered online, ship directly to us and we'll have it ready for you next day.' Easy half day service charge.


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## jollybeggar (Feb 2, 2004)

Customers!


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## rmac (Oct 26, 2004)

As the owner, don’t get locked into one approach. Be prepared to adjust.

I live very close to my LBS and for a long time avoided them because the wrenches were too ‘core’. I would only stop in for an occasional patch kit or tube or something. One day the employees were all gone and a new group hired who were completely customer service oriented. I was impressed and started going there more often and have spent a lot with them over the last years.

For a couple of months the owner had a ‘cute’ girl on the payroll too but she was fairly useless. Within a short while she was gone.

The wrenches (that have been there a while now) also have a lot of autonomy and when I was chasing down a creak one time, one of the guys spend 20 minutes stripping down my ride (on the spot) and charged me $6 for the lubing he did. Previously I would have had to pay for a $30 – 60 ‘service’ for something like that. The also have the ability to give me discounts on parts without consulting the owner/manager.

As suggested above they keep an old parts bin and if they don’t have a part to sell me will give me one at no charge from the bin.

They know I am a clueless mechanic and yet (if not overly busy, and sometimes even then) have made an effort to educate me – it seems counter intuitive but one of their guys has done it a couple of times now, the first being when I had a creaky headset, he set me up on one of their stand and coached me through a headset service (no charge). It seems like they are giving away business in this way but are actually gaining a better customer. I just bought a Lyrik from them (slightly discounted) and they offered to show me how to change the oil in it the first time it needs a service. The wrench freely admitted he/they like the RS forks the best and encouraged me in the Lyrik over a Marz and he intimated that they can service the RS in house but tend to send the Marz (and others) back to the factory. I went with his recommendation and purchased from them rather than buying slightly cheaper over the web because of that. I don’t doubt that they are probably getting a good/better deal from RS but for a customer (I want easy to service parts) like me the service side of it has a ton of value.

All this to say that the biggest difference in this bike shop is a direct reflection of the owner and his/her business sense and flexibility. I don’t think they are treating every customer exactly the same, I suspect they are figuring out what each customer needs and how to make them a long term customer and simply pushing the right buttons.

One last example of flexibility and change: This shop used to carry many high end bikes in stock (MTB and road) and (assuming they weren’t on consignment) must have had a lot of cash sunk into his inventory. No longer. I have only seen low end commuter bikes on the floor recently. I can’t tell you for sure how this is working for him but I would guess that he is adjusting for the economy and his high end customers are OK (and confident) with him ordering the bike rather than also displaying the bike. Maybe this will change as the economy improves.

This shop also does the social coffee and armchair thing too – doesn’t work for me but they often seem to have several people hanging out talking bikes.

Good luck.


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## The Avenger (Aug 4, 2005)

I used to own a surf shop. So much of what has been advised here sounds like the way we tried to run my shop. Many surf shops also seem to have "vibe" or elitist issues. It is very important that respect for every customer starts from the top down. Never, ever bad-mouth a customer in front of your staff or in front of other customers. The same rules go for your staff. 

Knowledgeable staff seems to be important to everyone. It may seem counter intuitive at first, but some of my best hires started as my best customers. They are knowledgeable and avid cyclists that already have a sense of loyalty to you and your shop.

Knowledgeable is good, but make sure you have a "no BS" policy. Honesty is the best policy. Train your staff to admit a lack of knowledge when applicable. Customers can tell when their being fed a line. A customer respects a salesperson that can say, "I don't know, but I 'll find out for you." Then make sure you follow through with that promise.

Hire the best wheel builder in the region.

Invest in a good sound system, but don't assume everyone shares your taste in music. Keep the volume reasonable.

Give the locals a spot in the shop to hang that isn't the main counter. 

Let the shop rat kids sweep up for schwag. They will be forever loyal to you, and may become a great employee once they're old enough.

Make your shop part of the larger (not just avid cyclist) community. Remember that bikes come and go in most people's lives. Not everyone is as avid as the average mtbr member. You can't give to every organization but try your best to support the schools. In this way, you appeal to both the kids and the parents with one contribution. Organize bike safety days and "ride to school" days with the schools.

Build trails. Pay your staff to participate in trail building days. Have them wear shop T-shirts. Bring schwag (hopefully with your shop's logo) for everyone.


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## blooper (Sep 27, 2005)

Don't tell your customer it will be ready Monday and it not be ready until Tuesday. Don't make promises you can't keep.


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## rollinon29s (Jun 7, 2006)

Darn right. Its a whole crap load of work for VERY little return. Not only that but the 2 mil you put in, you may get back in the next 10 yrs but unlikely


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

Mr Cabletwitch said:


> Not having ****** bag employees helps too,


Don't forget the case where the owner is a d-bag but the employees aren't.

If I go in a shop and find one d-bag working there, I can talk to another person or try another day when the d-bag isn't working.

If I go in a shop and the owner's a d-bag, then I'm done because buying anything from anyone there profits him.


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

*I totally agree..*



gxglass said:


> Maybe this is something the MTB industry as a whole could do better on. The manufacturers should make more demo bikes available, and the dealers should push the events more. IMHO they are almost certainly leaving money on the table. Maybe instead of a $4K bike I'll buy a $2K bike because I can't appreciate the difference in the parking lot. By way of comparison, how many luxury/performance cars would be sold if customers had to demo them only in parking lots and side streets?
> 
> As far as bogus ID's/credit cards, surely this is a solvable problem. Run the customer's card in the store the day before the demo. I'd be perfectly happy to show up at an LBS to spend 5 minutes for them to verify my credit prior to riding around with their bikes.
> 
> ...


I do think that the industry as a whole should/could do a better job of demoing bikes. Giving customers the ability to get the full experience of how their bike performes may aid in increasing sales. That said, haven worked on the side of the manufacture, I'm very aware of the logistics involved in pulling off a demo program. Demos are usually only done at special events or convensions, like InterBike because there will be a large concentrated number of people in one place, the manufacutres only have to bring a few bikes in a few size runs, and it's a farely secure location. Anywhere from 100 to 140 bikes fit in a shipping container. The prices that those bikes cost to build is set. So, depending on the size of any particular sales terrirtory, you could easily go through several containers in order to make sure they had size runs available for demos. The downside of the cycling industry is that the profit margins are razor thin. A move like that could shut down most bike companies.

And, as for only buying a 2K bike because they couldn't demo a 4K bike, the vast majority of consumers in the cycling world shope for what models are available for them within their price range. So if they were riding 2K bikes, they were shopping for only 2K bikes. It is extremely rare that someone who wasn't looking to spend that much would be willing to jump up to double what they were looking at.


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

*this sounds good in theory, but...*



erik1245 said:


> I don't want to buy a BB tool, when it's one of those tools that I'll likely be using once or twice in the life of a bike. Offer a time/place for customers to use your tools so they can do their own wrenching.


if you check with any LBS who has had a spot or tools for folks to work on their own bikes and now they don't, they will all tell you the same things: 
1) their tools "walk away". Shops that were letting customers use their tools, or that had a section put aside for folks to do their own wrenching find themselves constantly replacing tools that have mysteriously vanished. It get expensive and old.
2) Loss of revinue. By having a spot for folks to work on their bikes, it takes away from the $$$ the shop would make in their service department.


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## skrap1r0n (Oct 15, 2010)

RipRoar said:


> Be willing to do a quick on the spot repair (even if you need to swap a bike out of the stand) for a customer in need. This goes a long way...


+1 on this. I went into a LBS to drop off a rear wheel to have a spoke replaced, fully expecting to pick it up in a few days. I was surprised when they fixed it on the spot.


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## caspio (Apr 30, 2010)

Pretty much just rehashing points already made, but whatever:

Salespeople who can admit they don't know something. I'm a researcher, by the time I actually go into a store to look at something I probably know more about it than the salesperson and maybe their manager too. I try to not ask ridiculous obscure questions, but I often get hit with BS info in the initial pitch.

You can't treat everyone like a king, but do your best to make the newbie feel as welcome as the long term customer. I got tired of being ignored at the shop I purchased my $450 hardtail from, and so the $2.5k full sus I hope to buy this spring will almost certainly come from one of their competitors.


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

*No Scooby snacks for you!*



Scooby-doo said:


> No Trek, Specialized, Giant or Cannondale. They will want all of your store and then let you know what brand to carry or not carry. Raleigh is a good suggestion. There are a lot of brands that have great bikes besides the big 4. Each and every year other companies are filling nitches where those other 4 use to be the only players. If you carried any of these brands Raleigh, Felt, Ibis, Jamis, Kona, Santa Cruz or Orbea you could get away from the bigger brands that demand floor space and $ value and work with companies that are happy to have you and work with you. That way the love gets spread out evenly amongst the companies and maybe the big 4 will stop driving up prices because they hold the market. Not grind you for everything you are worth. Everyone makes quality bikes these days but you need to decide whether you want to run your shop or a bike company to run your shop. Service, a good sales staff, a woman on staff and bike riders that ride in the community and you will be set. Good luck.


I think the only thing that you said that I agreed with was "Everyone makes quality bikes these days". I couldn't agree more:thumbsup:

One (if not THE) biggest reasons why the big 4 are the big for is marketing. The big 4 spend marketing $$$$$$ on sponsering teams world wide, tv advertising, etc. This creates exposure which then drives customers to seek their products at your LBS. Smaller companies like Raleigh, etc.; rely more on the LBS to promote their products which is very difficult for a shop to do too much of because of their narrow margins. So bringing in one of the big 4 is more apt to bring people through your doors than a floor full only with value added brands.

Also, the big 4 are not what drives prices. More than anything, cost of raw materials, labor and shipping are the three big things that drive the market. :eekster: After that, it's consumer demand and what the market place can stand.


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## shredchic (Jun 18, 2007)

Maybe hiring temporary part time folks to help out when there is a crunch? It always turns me off when the wait is 2 - 3 weeks. Definitely - it's my fault that I didn't plan ahead - but still, that's just way too long for turnaround. What if a car shop had your car that long? Just sayin'. I just hire one of my friends at that point.


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## joshman108 (Jul 6, 2009)

You should probably know what it takes to run a successful business.
Proft,cost,labor,marketing,time, etc.

But from what ive heard, if you understood this at all you would never open one in the first place!


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## TheoDog (Aug 12, 2010)

jolly beggar pretty much nailed it. The key to having a successful shop is....
sales.
there is a pretty standard profit margin for each category of item from bikes, accessories, nutrition, apparel, service, parts, tools. Stick close to the margins and sell sell sell.
it is basic retail. Don't get fooled into thinking that giving stuff away will win customers... it will only win freeloaders. Identify your key demographic and cater to it.
But what I found tough was treating the everyday "I bought my bike at wal-mart and need brake pad thingies"guy with the same respect as the guy that just bought a Fisher Superfly


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## mitzikatzi (Sep 9, 2008)

+1 to nearly all that has been said.

Lady staff members both sales and a mechanic. 
Some men who work in bike shops tend to be patronizing towards women.

I doubt a LBS can compete with the internet on price. I wouldn't even try. 

Service is the key to a good bike shop. Treat all customers with respect even the ones with bikes from Wallymart. To them it's a great bike.

I liked the advice/idea about having some older second hand parts. 
Maybe have some "loaner" stems and handlebars of different shapes and lengths.
I have seen a shop that "strips" or "wrecks" new bikes and sells off the parts. Usually they are very small or large frames. But if you are in the shop on the right day sometimes you pick up a bargain on a part. Which means you have to visit often.

I like some racks in the shop to park my bike on when I visit. I rarely carry a lock and would never leave my bike outside. If my bike isn't welcome in the shop I leave and never return.

Offer wheel building and maintenance courses.


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## lumber825 (Sep 4, 2009)

Treat people right. I'm a big guy so I may not look like your typical biker.

I have two shops with 2 miles of my house. Shop one treated me like crap and didn't want to take any bikes out of the racks to show me.

Family Bikes in Crofton Md took the time to explain my options and practically forced me to take a test ride. I have since bought a Road Bike from them, a Mountain Bike 2 months later and 2 days ago after walking in to make a $13 return I walked out with a new Giant Talon er1 
29 er on order and $954 less in my pocket.

When I walk in 90% of the employee's call me by name.
When I have a simple repair, without asking they take care of me on the spot.
I love no interest financing. All three bikes from them were a better bike than I planned on because I got 12 months no interest to pay for them so I upgraded to a better bike.
If they don't have it they can get it, quick.
Their prices are competitive. I want to shop and support local but I can't afford to overpay, with them I don't.
They don't rush me when I come in no matter how busy they are.
They ask me questions to help make my hobby better. Things like where do you ride and tell me places I should try.
They have a good web site and a great monthly E Mail news letter.


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## scottvt (Jul 19, 2009)

sean salach said:


> Understand and accept the fact that people are going to bring in mail order parts to be installed, and don't pillage them for it out of spite.


I am not sure if any shops really have a problem with this, but I still completely agree. I brought my Santa Cruz Nomad frame to my LBS that sells Felt, Trek, and GF to have a headset (Chris King which they don't sell there) installed. I was kind of worried that there might be a stink about it, but there wasn't. I don't think there should be either. They have a service department, who's purpose is to perform service on bikes. They get paid to do the service...
Also on the mail order topic, I don't think you need to match internet prices, or even try to get close. Set your price and stick with it. As mentioned above, I can go online and order parts just as easily as you can. I came to the LBS for the convenience, and I need the part now.
And again as mentioned above, cute girls are a huge plus.
Best of luck to you.


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## Marcus75 (Jul 29, 2003)

*Service*

Service before and after the sale!

I bought 2 high end bikes from a popular LBS here. But my bikes always seems to be serviced by some amateur. I have to keep coming back because they do a piss poor job.

So yes pay your mechanic some money instead of hiring some local kid!


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## ilostmypassword (Dec 9, 2006)

free coffee!


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## KiwiJohn (Feb 6, 2007)

Beer:30 on a friday night!


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## Jake21 (Nov 25, 2006)

Mr Cabletwitch said:


> Just like any business....
> 
> Location, Location, Location.
> 
> Not having ****** bag employees helps too, most of the people on the internet are going to tell you a million things but in the end if you have a strong location and good people skills you can be successful... Of course Location considers other things like competition or lack there of as well.


:thumbsup: 
L,L,L. the biggie.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

29eritarider said:


> a couple things people didn't mention, for thoose of us who dont have alot of money or want to get a cheap bike working again for cheap keep a decent supply of used parts from customer upgrades who didn't want there old junk.....when you can give these parts out for free or cheap it really makes people happy,....when asking the question "do you have any used parts" and being looked at as though you are holding a "will look for food" sign, wearing a beat to hell trench coat makes me want to never come back to your shop ever again.....
> 
> also offer people who are regulars confident in there mechanical skills (such as someone like myself who works on cars for a living) the access to a bike stand if you are slow and not using all of yours....it makes me very happy when bike shops offer me a bike stand and there tools instead of a bill for a job i was more then capable of completing on my own


So basically you want a bike shop to not charge you for parts OR service. Sounds like a great business plan...


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

erik1245 said:


> As a customer:
> 
> I don't want to buy a BB tool, when it's one of those tools that I'll likely be using once or twice in the life of a bike. Offer a time/place for customers to use your tools so they can do their own wrenching. Hell, my chain tool broke. There's nothing more embarrassing than bringing the bike in for a chain replacement


Amazing how many people want to be their own wrenches but don't want to spring for the tools. IMO it's kinda like the guys that show up for rides w/o tools/tubes/food/water, expecting others to get them by.


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## JMUSuperman (Jun 14, 2008)

Lot of comments about unknowledgeable mechanics on here. I knew a ton about my bike when I took a job wrenching at a shop, but didn't know much about any other bearings besides cartridge, road bikes, wrapping bars, and a slew of other things. Fortunately, the manager took his time and guided me through the things I didn't know, and double checked my work to make sure what was leaving the door was quality work. When stuff did come back, he helped me make it right. That taught me a great deal about wrenching on many different bikes.

I say not to worry about the internet pricing thing too much. A lot of the discount internet prices are literally right above (or sometimes even below) cost. LBS customers are paying more for your in person knowledge, your customer service, your retail space, and your support. I've taken stuff off of an owner's bike to satisfy a customer who got a part that didn't work. The internets won't do that. Once you build your customer base you can totally let them know when there are deals through one of your suppliers, but ultimately you need to (and the customers need to) remember that selling them the part is how you eat. If you sell it at or below cost just to match a price someone found on Chainlove, you don't get to eat.

Sponsor local riders, show up to local events in your shop jersey which is available for sale in your store. Show up to local/regional cycling events. Make sure you have a good logo. Don't trash talk other shops in the area. Have a place to hang during the Tour de France and other televised/streamed cycling events. Stock kids bikes. Know your customer base and stock new bikes accordingly.

As for having free tools to use: have a pump, tire levers, and a chain stretch tool. If someone wants to come during a time when the shop isn't busy to instal their own derailleur that's fine. But the minute they start asking you questions, hand them a flier for your home mechanic class that you have, or offer to show them for half of the shop cost to install it. Remember, this is how you eat.

Have patience for people who have no idea what is wrong with their bike but want you to fix it, and don't automatically charge them the price of a full tune up when the only thing you really did was adjust the derailleur.

Beer at closing on Friday is a great idea.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

JMUSuperman said:


> As for having free tools to use: have a pump, tire levers, and a *chain stretch tool*. If someone wants to come during a time when the shop isn't busy to instal their own derailleur that's fine. But the minute they start asking you questions, hand them a flier for your home mechanic class that you have, or offer to show them for half of the shop cost to install it. Remember, this is how you eat.


WTH is this tool? 
The home mech class is a good idea, but to take twice the time to show how something's done and charge half price? Don't think so.


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## bigpedaler (Jan 29, 2007)

29eritarider said:


> a couple things people didn't mention, for thoose of us who dont have alot of money or want to get a cheap bike working again for cheap keep a decent supply of used parts from customer upgrades who didn't want there old junk.....when you can give these parts out for free or cheap it really makes people happy,....when asking the question "do you have any used parts" and being looked at as though you are holding a "will look for food" sign, wearing a beat to hell trench coat makes me want to never come back to your shop ever again.....
> 
> also offer people who are regulars confident in there mechanical skills (such as someone like myself who works on cars for a living) the access to a bike stand if you are slow and not using all of yours....it makes me very happy when bike shops offer me a bike stand and there tools instead of a bill for a job i was more then capable of completing on my own


You don't want a shop, you want a co-op.

If there's not one in your area, start one, then you can provide others just what you want.


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## Nonracerrichie (Dec 20, 2005)

*Lots of front of the shop advice here...*

Here are .02 as a former and sort of still shop owner. I'll explaing the second part.

1) Keep your overhead low. Find a good location yes, but if that location cost you $2000 a month you may be better served off the path at a smaller front for $600 a month and using $500 to advertise. If you can own the building that is ideal. You then have a big asset provided you buy at a smart price.

2)Be ready for "business" expenses, gas and electric, and phone will cost you twice as much as residential service. It sucks that the same cubic foot of natural gas cost double to pump into a retail location. Have a good inventory and ordering system integrated with your POS it makes accounting and growing easier. Pay your taxes and insurance.

3)Have enought capital to stock the store fully and make it look nice, I don't care if it is high end or budget parts a full store always looks better than a half empty one. Keep enough capital on had to make it through three months with slow revenue. It will happen. Cycling is seasonal almost everywhere in the country, CA, FL, CO, here in the midwest for sure. I can't honestly speak to Arizona or Texas but I'd bet there are slow months.

4)As far as matching internet prices goes, good luck. There are several tiers of wholesale prices out there. For example buying in bulk directly from Shimano as a manufacturer or wholesaler like QBP or BTI is price x. Shimano makes the part for roughly .6x. You will buy the part from QBP/BTI for 2x and hope to sell that part for 4x. Some online retailers are huge and buy tons of parts at 1.4x way below what you can buy for. If you meet their regular prices you can still make a little but it hurts. When online stores close it out at the end of the season and you still have some in stock parts will be on sale to the public for less than it cost you wholesale. It happens every fall.

4a) Your labor is gold don't give it away, do excellent fast work but don't give it away.

5)I still sort of own a shop because I am a meticulous wrench and wheelbuilder. I am college educated, put myself through Barnetts full program and worked for and listend to wrenches who were better and wiser than me for 5 years before starting my shop. After I closed my customers kept calling my cell and asking for wheels and wrench work of all kinds so I still keep the mind and fingers sharp for bike repairs.

For everybody saying have free coffee, bottled water or beer you are nuts. Why should your local bike shop provide you for free what Starbucks, Evian, and Bucky's Bar are making their living on?

FWIW I didn't necessarily follow all of my above advice.


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## ride_nw (Jan 12, 2010)

erik1245 said:


> I don't want to buy a BB tool, when it's one of those tools that I'll likely be using once or twice in the life of a bike. Offer a time/place for customers to use your tools so they can do their own wrenching. Hell, my chain tool broke. There's nothing more embarrassing than bringing the bike in for a chain replacement


I don't think it is reasonable to ask any shop (or person) to loan you tools beyond hex wrenches and tire levers. If they do, that's great, reward that person for their generosity, but don't expect it.

Think how much time it takes to drive across town to borrow a BB tool and compare it to your hourly wage. Were talking about a $10 tool here. Just buy one. Now you can pull your BB at 9PM on a friday night. Or while you are on a road trip. Etc...... if you want to be self sufficient and DIY there are some tools you just gotta own.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

ride_nw said:


> I don't think it is reasonable to ask any shop (or person) to loan you tools beyond hex wrenches and tire levers. If they do, that's great, reward that person for their generosity, but don't expect it.
> 
> Think how much time it takes to drive across town to borrow a BB tool and compare it to your hourly wage. Were talking about a $10 tool here. Just buy one. Now you can pull your BB at 9PM on a friday night. Or while you are on a road trip. Etc...... if you want to be self sufficient and DIY there are some tools you just gotta own.


+1. However, as a sort of happy medium between letting people wrench in your shop and not, offer some repair clinics once or twice a month. I'd be way more tempted to buy tools I don't necessarily need at a shop after attending a clinic. Give someone confidence to swap out a BB and pull a crank and they'll drop $30 in tools after the clinic. It's also a good way to get new people in the shop that might be loyal to other shops in the area. Get to know people, teach them a few things, and show them you are a professional and are knowledgeable about working on bikes.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

One that's on the internet!


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## marzjennings (Jan 3, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> One that's on the internet!


I think that's a good point. Any shop that starts up without an internet presence is wasting their time.


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## blizzardpapa (Jan 19, 2004)

Make sure all the staff members have passion for bikes and that they are not there only for store discounts.


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## Spokesnet (Oct 14, 2010)

gmtx77 said:


> Here's a few I'd start with......
> 
> Make sure you have good wrenchers who know their stuff. Pay them well and do everything in your power to keep them once they've proven their stuff.
> 
> ...


Hit the nail right on the head. Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## p.doering (Aug 1, 2008)

A successful bike shop is one that begins with a lot of capital and no expecations.


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