# Sticky  When to use a Long Cage vs Short Cage Derailleur?



## Trentkc (Mar 23, 2006)

I have a new SRAM X9 long cage derailleur, and another X9 that I now realize is "not long". Both are brand new, but the short one is ~16mm shorter.

What is the proper application for long versus short cage derailleur? Will the short one work with a 11/34 cassette? Does it matter if the bike has a rear suspension or is a hardtail? 

Is my shorter X9 a "short" cage or "medium" cage? Thanks //kct


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

You've got a medium cage. Sram makes a short cage mountain derailleur in the X.0 line, but only goes as low as a medium in the X.9.

Quick answer: The medium cage will work, but you'll drop your chain if you accidentally shift to the small-small combo. Suspension *could* be a factor, depending on how much "chainstay growth" your frame experiences as your suspension cycles.

Long answer:

Derailleurs have a rated capacity. This is their ability to take up excess chain. After all, you need just about all of your chain to run in the big-big combo, whereas you have a bunch of extra links doing nothing when you run in your small-small combo.

Not that either of those cross-chain combos are normal to run in, but let me get to that in a minute.

Manufacturer stated derailleur capacities are as follows:
Shimano long=45T; medium=33T
SRAM long=43T; medium=37T; short=30T

Speaking from experience, Shimano is a bit conservative in their capacity rating. I can only assume the same is true of SRAM (I'll get to that, too).

The easy capacity formula is to add your big ring & cog sizes, then subtract your small ring and cog sizes. It looks like this:

*cap req'd (T)=(BIG ring - small ring) + (BIG cog - small cog) *

...so for a typical 44-32-22 mountain crank & 11-34 cassette...

*T=(44T - 22T) + (34T - 11T)
..=(22T) + (23T)
..=45T*

Using this simple forumla, you would need a derailleur with a 45T rated capacity to absorb all the possible extra links of a typical 27-speed drivetrain.

(I make the assumption SRAM stated capacity is conservative, since they list 43T as the long cage capacity -- 2T short of what is required by this forumla).

Where do shorter cage lengths come into play? Right here!

Even though the long cage will, in theory, take you down to the 22x11 gear combo and hold adequate chain tension, let's be logical: 22x11 is a combo you don't use!

Rather than use the generic formula, let's map out the capacity for each gear combination (based off of a Shimano cog pattern; SRAM will be slightly different):










44x34 starts off at zero because in that combo, all of the chain is being used up by the ring and cog, and the derailleur needs to take up none of it. As you shift through the cassette range (moving down the column), the amount of free chain increases as the cog size decreases.

Take a look at the useable gears, which I've outlined in green and yellow. Those fall near the stated capacity of the medium cage derailleurs. (I mentioned that Shimano's stated capacity is conservative, and in practice, I find their medium cage to be closer to 39T.)

For instance, in the middle ring (32) and the small cog (11), the table shows you've got to absorb 35T. This is near the stated capacity of either of the *medium cage* derailleurs. This gear combo remains useable, but you'd be better off shifting to your big ring for better chain tension.

You can also see that to use a SRAM *short cage* derailleur (30T capacity) on this drivetrain would leave you with two or three *un*usable gears while in the middle ring, and only about three useable gears from your granny ring. (Any number greater than 30T on the table would be near the limits of the short cage derailleur.)

Oops! Accidentally shifted into the unusable "red zone"? Nothing major: the derailleur cage folds back on itself, the chain droops, and you maybe drop the chain if you don't catch it in time.

In my opinion, it'd be stupid to size a chain any smaller than what is required to shift into big-big. If you accidentally force a shift into that combo, which is certainly possible when you're tired or "in the moment", you don't want to break anything. *So chain length will be the same no matter what derailleur you choose.*










Benefits of a shorter cage length?
- snappier shifts
- better chain tension
- less chain slap / greatly decreased drivetrain noise (!)
- better obstruction clearance / improved spoke clearance.
- slight weight loss -- but you gotta be a real weight weenie to appreciate this one.


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## Call_me_Clyde (Oct 27, 2004)

*Moderator's Note on original thread*

This sticky thread is an edited version of a longer thread. It's intended use is as a quick reference guide for questions relating to derailleur cage length. If you want to read more, or participate in the original thread, it can be found here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=205890

Bob


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## scrubs (Jun 11, 2008)

Great explanation, it's amazing how little of this can be found on the shimano website. So does that mean if I am running a triple front 22-32-44 on a BMC 4-stroke with 11-34 rear I need the longest cage? 
Confusingly the shimano website doesn't list 'medium' & 'long' cage but uses the terms 'long' and 'super long', the latter rated as a 45T.


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## ibismojo (Jul 8, 2005)

I have read all of the sticky as well as this post, and don't see any real talk about a 46T big ring. I am running a 46-34-24 with a normal xt rear cassette. I am thinking about changing over to sram drivetrain and thinking I need to get a long cage RD. I just want to make sure I am thinking right here.


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## BikeLust (Nov 5, 2004)

*minor revision*

I was just on the SRAM site and their tech manual states that the X0 rear derailleur has a capacity of 45T. The OP stated 43, 2 less than his formula where in fact the capacity matches same as Shimano. A minor point but worth updating on the sticky.

BL


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

to properly run a sram x9 short cage rear der, which were still available through qbp this year, either a 32t ring with a 34 in the back or reverse combo will work fine. i've been running one for the last year with a 34t ring up front and a 30t in the back and there's room for more teeth. i really dig the short cage thang, less likely to snag on something.
rog


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## DirtGash (Mar 1, 2008)

.downhillfaster. said:


> I'm running an X9 short cage rear with 36T front / 34T rear with no issues. I'm sure it's pushing the limits of what's doable, but it seems to be working fine althought many have said it won't.


Cool I think this just answered my question. I have a X-9 short cage, and am currently running a 32T front/ 32T rear, but am about to convert to a 1x9 MRP guide system. Am going to now run a 36T single front and am wondering if I can keep my 11-32 cassette or if I have to switch to a DH 11-26 which would suck as then I would loose all climbing ability.

But if you are running a 36T front and 11-34 cassette with no issues, I should be fine!

Gnarly!


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

DirtGash said:


> Cool I think this just answered my question. I have a X-9 short cage, and am currently running a 32T front/ 32T rear, but am about to convert to a 1x9 MRP guide system. Am going to now run a 36T single front and am wondering if I can keep my 11-32 cassette or if I have to switch to a DH 11-26 which would suck as then I would loose all climbing ability.
> 
> But if you are running a 36T front and 11-34 cassette with no issues, I should be fine!
> 
> Gnarly!


I'm confused about the last few posts. Are you guys both running single rings in the front? If so, the size of the ring is totally irrelevant as to the cage length. If not, saying "32t front, 32t rear" is useless information, as you need to know the size of the biggest AND smallest ring/cog in order to gain anything meaningful from the example.

The size of the rings and cassette cogs is meaningless. it is the DIFFERENCE between the biggest and smallest that matters.

So, dirtgash: You should be fine, the size of the front single ring is irrelevant. If a single 32t worked, so will a 36t, or a 38t or a 54t ring, or any other size ring you could possibly use.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Guys, why all the brainiac math? The OP just wants to know what cage to use with his 11-34 cassette.......fer cryin......


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Zachariah said:


> Guys, why all the brainiac math? The OP just wants to know what cage to use with his 11-34 cassette.......fer cryin......


*Read the responses* and you'll understand why there is not a simple answer to the question when you don't say A) what you are running up front and B) if you are willing to loose the use of the small/small combo.


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## MTBgreatfalls (Jun 12, 2006)

This is great stuff, I was wondering about switching to a medium or short cage. now I have something to go by.


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## IRONMAN1518 (Jul 19, 2008)

*When to use a Long Cage/Short cage.*

Soooooo.....................I think I've understood most of this......I think?
If I a using an 11-34 cassette and a 22-44 crank, I can use a short cage xtr rear der as long as I don't "crossshift" out of the "Green Area" in the above chart, correct? 
I'm in that decision @ this time which der to run. Thanks for any further input. I have a short cage der comming and thinki I need to buy the SGS cages and replace the SG cages,?? I am right or waaay of, please?
Thanks!!


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

*I use the short cage XTR*

I set up my chain big big +2 and can use all the green and the purple where there is very little slack. The yellow is marginal.

I lost a couple of long cages to sticks and rocks, so I switched. What I found was crisper shifting with the short cage, less chain slap and much better clearance.

I would never go back. Makes you a better (more conscientious) shifter.

So on the small cog you get slack when you use the smaller rings. In the middle cog you get some slack on the smallest ring. Big deal. That is the only downside.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I use a short cage X.0 with 11-34t cassette and 29-42t 2x9 up front. No shifting problems to speak of and I can hit all gears. I run the chain pretty tight.


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## adiokyro (Sep 17, 2008)

*because of this thread...*

i have always run 11-34/long cage/xt triggers and because of mainly this thread i set my new rize up with pg990 11-32, X-0 medium cage, and X-0 twisters--i really really love this set up, ive never ridden anything with such nice crisp and quick shifting! i love that i can dump all 9 in a single twist--really love it


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## russelr (Oct 29, 2008)

Speedub.Nate said:


> too much to quote


that was the best answer i have ever read on mtbr. just wanted to let you know i saved it to a word document for a future reference.


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## Thrasher (Jun 18, 2005)

adiokyro said:


> i have always run 11-34/long cage/xt triggers and because of mainly this thread i set my new rize up with pg990 11-32, X-0 medium cage, and X-0 twisters--i really really love this set up, ive never ridden anything with such nice crisp and quick shifting! i love that i can dump all 9 in a single twist--really love it


I was reading all of the extreme details above and not sure about all the math stuff.  
The info is quite detailed and informative but I'm just looking for a 'quick fix' answer to get my bike back on the trail with quicker shifting and a low profile. I believe I'll be able to run a medium cage on my setup? Right? My setup is 3 rings (not sure of the count on sprockets) up front and the 11-34 9 speed cassette in the back. I'd rather go with the medium cage Derailleur since I ride lots of rough/rocky/rooty areas. I also do downhill so the medium would probably be better for that. I don't care if I have the chain slack that Prophet Julio mentioned since I don't use that gearing much. I'm thinking this should workout. I'm going to go with this one. http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-SHIMANO-DEORE-XT-M772-SHADOW-REAR-DERAILLEUR-GS_W0QQitemZ300341790202QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item45edc405fa&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

My main concern is I want to have great climbing gear ability with the small front and big in back since I also do lots of front range climbing. BTW, this is going on my 2005 Kona Dawg Dee-Lux that's taken one hell of a beating and deserves a new Derailleur .:thumbsup:


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## adiokyro (Sep 17, 2008)

i think u shud be fine with that--i had that shadow der too n it is pretty lo-pro. u just cant ever be in ur big/big or small/small but who does that anyway--like my 11-32 tho n seems fine even for steep climbs


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## Thrasher (Jun 18, 2005)

adiokyro said:


> i think u shud be fine with that--i had that shadow der too n it is pretty lo-pro. u just cant ever be in ur big/big or small/small but who does that anyway--like my 11-32 tho n seems fine even for steep climbs


Cool, thanks for the info. I can't recall anytime I'd be using those gears either so time 2 purchase!


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## oheckler (Jan 26, 2008)

Has anyone tried using a really short derailleur? I am currently running a 1x8 setup on my steel Ibis Mojo with an older XT long cage rear derailleur. I am planning on switching to an older short cage xtr derailleur but have considered using an older Dura Ace RD-7402 rear derailleur for really crisp shifting. Does anyone know if this derailleur will clear a 32 tooth cog?


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## nony (Oct 26, 2008)

Just curious, does a longer cage keep the chain more taut, lessening a dropped chain?


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## bhc (Sep 27, 2005)

oheckler said:


> Has anyone tried using a really short derailleur? I am currently running a 1x8 setup on my steel Ibis Mojo with an older XT long cage rear derailleur. I am planning on switching to an older short cage xtr derailleur but have considered using an older Dura Ace RD-7402 rear derailleur for really crisp shifting. Does anyone know if this derailleur will clear a 32 tooth cog?


I have run an old Dura Ace on a 1 x 6 set up with a 32 in back. Shifted fine. But I don't know what model # it is.


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## bgfthntr (May 18, 2009)

I use a XT Short Cage with a 22-32-44, 11-34 combo and no problems. When checking chain length I made sure I could shift in 44-34T combo (i don't use it) just in case I shift there by accident. The last derailleur was the recent SLX Shadow derailleur that got nailed by a rock and took the the hanger with it.


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## bde1024 (Feb 14, 2005)

I was wondering if a X.O shortcage would work with an 11-34 cassette and 44-29 or 42-29 rings? Anyone have any experience with that sort of setup?


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## herrhaus (May 29, 2009)

*HELP please.*

I ran across this thread while trying to determine what would be my best RD for my setup......while I may be an engineer....I still don't get some stuff.

I've converted my Marin from a 3x8 to a 1x9. Front chain ring is a 34t salsa (non-ramped) and the rear cassette is 11-34. From the chart above, I would assume that my required capacity T = 34-11 = 23. I have a Shimano Deore rapid fire shifter and the rear cassette is Shimano as well.

Can some one give me some good suggestions on derailleurs given this setup? It looks like a short cage would be ideal....if I understand this correct.

Thanks.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

bde1024 said:


> I was wondering if a X.O shortcage would work with an 11-34 cassette and 44-29 or 42-29 rings? Anyone have any experience with that sort of setup?


Short cage is good with cassettes smaller than 27t cogs. I run XO long cage with a 12/27 cassette and XTR M960 triple with no problems at all.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

herrhaus said:


> I ran across this thread while trying to determine what would be my best RD for my setup......while I may be an engineer....I still don't get some stuff.
> 
> I've converted my Marin from a 3x8 to a 1x9. Front chain ring is a 34t salsa (non-ramped) and the rear cassette is 11-34. From the chart above, I would assume that my required capacity T = 34-11 = 23. I have a Shimano Deore rapid fire shifter and the rear cassette is Shimano as well.
> 
> ...


Short.


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## herrhaus (May 29, 2009)

As indicated by Zachariah above, he uses a long cage with cogs greater than 27t. I have a 34t cog.......short still ok for this? Recommendation on model?


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## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

I use a medium cage X9 with 2x9 and 11-34 in the back. I think a short cage will be fine with a 1x9 11-34.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

herrhaus said:


> As indicated by Zachariah above, he uses a long cage with cogs greater than 27t. I have a 34t cog.......short still ok for this? Recommendation on model?


Cage length has _*nothing *_to do with max cog size. You can use a short cage mtb der with an 11-34 cassette. A short is what you want for any single ring set up.


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## herrhaus (May 29, 2009)

That's what I thought.....but I wanted to make sure. The cage length is intended to take up the slack between little/little and big/big....nothing more. The parabolic swing is basically the same between all 7/8/9-speed derailleurs....correct? 

Now the next question is rapid rise vs. the other version. I should switch to another thread for that question. 

Thanks.


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## tazducks (Jun 11, 2008)

help me decide between short x0 and med. x0 rear
2x9 setup. on Salsa Dos Niner.
11-32 rear 38/29 front. 
definetely no full suspension here but 1" travel does play into the equation a little..
using the math i hit 30 or a short cage possible. any chance i may be at the extreme limit here and just need to go to a medium?? i dont need broken parts due to mishap in a shift.

anyone have any pics of derailers at the big/big combo to see how straight they can run.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

tazducks said:


> definetely no full suspension here but 1" travel does play into the equation a little..
> using the math i hit 30 or a short cage possible. any chance i may be at the extreme limit here and just need to go to a medium?? i dont need broken parts due to mishap in a shift.
> .


If you set it up right you won't have any broken parts. Worst case scenario you may lose the small/small combo (read the 2nd post). However, this is very unlikely, as they are conservative with the capacity figures.


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

I'm going to 1x9 on my 29er hard tail with 11-34 cassette, and I'm using the 32t middle ring. I'll also have a BBG bash guard and chain guide inside.

I'm sticking with the stock XTR long cage derailleur that came on the bike, and here's why:

I've only ridden it in the 32t front ring since the bike was new, and with the exception of accidentally bumping the shift lever a few times, the small and large rings have never seen a chain. I DO run through all of the cassette gears and shifting has been flawless.

Most people say you should go short or medium cage for 1x9 for quicker shifting. Why would my rear derailleur's shifting (which has always been crisp and responsive) slow down or become sluggish just because I'm removing two chain rings I never used anyhow? 

If the shorter cage derailleurs give optimum performance, well then I am perfectly happy with what I have, and I need no better performance. If the shorter cage derailleur advantages with 1x9 mostly apply to FS bikes where chain length fluctuates as geometry changes, then it makes a little more sense to me.


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## herrhaus (May 29, 2009)

isleblue65 said:


> I'm going to 1x9 on my 29er hard tail with 11-34 cassette, and I'm using the 32t middle ring. I'll also have a BBG bash guard and chain guide inside.
> 
> I'm sticking with the stock XTR long cage derailleur that came on the bike, and here's why:
> 
> ...


The only reason I switched to a shorter cage was to gain more clearance around rocks, sticks and what-not. No other reason.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

isleblue65 said:


> Why would my rear derailleur's shifting (which has always been crisp and responsive) slow down or become sluggish just because I'm removing two chain rings I never used anyhow?


Nobody ever said it would.


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

kapusta said:


> Nobody ever said it would.


I was confusing 2 different message boards. On another, someone posted this (#4 is what I remembered reading):

_1) Lace the chain around the front ring and the biggest cog in back. Do not run the chain through the derailleur at all. This will give you your minimum chain length.

2) Find the minimum chain length and add one (or maybe two if your nervous) link(s) for insurance. If your chain is too short you will ruin your derailleur, cassette, or chainrings. If it is too long, you will have a lot of chain slap and risk the possibility of the derailleur not being able to take up all the slack.

3) Get used to the derailleur cage being all the way forward when you're in lower gears.

4) If you want to reduce chain slap even more and quicken up your shifting, you can run a short cage derailleur with a 1x9 setup with an 11-34 cassette in back. (A good rule of thumb is long cage der for three chainrings up front, medium cage for two chainrings, and short cage for one) This costs money, but is worth it.
FYI Here is a link to a mtbr forum page that demystified the whole long/medium/short cage derailleur issue for me a while back...
forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=205890_

So while this person didn't say shifting would be 'sluggish', they did say a short cage would quicken up shifting. True or not, I can't imagine the benefit would be worth the money for me. Ground clearance has never been an issue for me.

BTW, why do you say this:



kapusta said:


> You can use a short cage mtb der with an 11-34 cassette. *A short is what you want for any single ring set up.*


My last question (for now) is: would you shorten the chain by a few links to account for not needing to shift into the large chain ring anymore, or leave it alone?


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## herrhaus (May 29, 2009)

isleblue65 said:


> My last question (for now) is: would you shorten the chain by a few links to account for not needing to shift into the large chain ring anymore, or leave it alone?


I would. If you remove the large ring, no need to account for it in your overall chain length. I've used the rule indicated above and it's also mentioned on any Shimano derailleur owners guide. wrap chain around largest chain ring & largest cog...then add 2 links.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

isleblue65 said:


> I was confusing 2 different message boards. On another, someone posted this (#4 is what I remembered reading):
> 
> _1) Lace the chain around the front ring and the biggest cog in back. Do not run the chain through the derailleur at all. This will give you your minimum chain length.
> 
> ...


The idea is that a shorter cage gives better shifting and chain tension, and running fewer rings _allows _you to use one. Its not that the long cage shifts any worse when you lose rings in the front, it's just that you now have the OPTION of using the shorter cage. As you may have seen from this and/or other threads, there is not universal agreement on whether the short cage makes a difference. In my experience, it did make a small difference, but not enough to replace an otherwise working long cage. If you are happy with the long cage, I would not go buying another RD just because you can.



> My last question (for now) is: would you shorten the chain by a few links to account for not needing to shift into the large chain ring anymore, or leave it alone?


In short, yes. Use the same method described above to determine chain length, but now your middle (and only ring) IS now your big ring. So yes, you will shorten it. This is part of the benefit of losing the big ring: you can shorten the chain and have it flopping around less.


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## Bigmech (Feb 23, 2010)

*Short!*

Its all about the short cage! Check out the new Sram ones on http://bigmech.co.uk


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

And what about the new XX 11/36 cassette with single ring in front?
will it work with short cage?

I tried it with a XTR shadow long cage and can't work, but because the shadow design, not the cage length, so I need to change RD


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

STS said:


> And what about the new XX 11/36 cassette with single ring in front?
> will it work with short cage?
> 
> I tried it with a XTR shadow long cage and can't work, but because the shadow design, not the cage length, so I need to change RD


You are running a single ring. Do the math.


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## big and tall (Mar 11, 2010)

Albeit, I found all of the various comments in this forum quite interesting, whats always worked for me is lacing the chain thruogh both derailleurs (utilizing chain resting on both of the smallest gears in the front and back) making sure that in this orinentation you have the thickness of your index finger(about three quarters of an inch) between the chain and the cage extension of the derailleurThis should give the correct chain tension under most conditions. Also , everyone knows to always shift their bikes to the lowest (small to small) when the bike is put away for the day...right?...big and tall


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

big and tall said:


> Also , everyone knows to always shift their bikes to the lowest (small to small) when the bike is put away for the day...right?...big and tall


Yes, and I put my car up on blocks each night as well.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

big and tall said:


> ...everyone knows to always shift their bikes to the lowest (small to small) when the bike is put away for the day...right?


But then my paint chips when the chain bounces during earthquakes!


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

kapusta said:


> You are running a single ring. Do the math.


the math says 11/36 = 25T range
short shimano cage says 23T range

BUT as here somebody stated shimano RD have more range than anounced, I would like to know if somebody tried it before I order the SS saint legs for my XTR shadow


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

STS said:


> the math says 11/36 = 25T range
> short shimano cage says 23T range
> 
> BUT as here somebody stated shimano RD have more range than anounced, I would like to know if somebody tried it before I order the SS saint legs for my XTR shadow


23t? Are you talking about the mountain or road RD?

Also, can you use a shimano shifter/RD with a sram 10 speed cassette? Are the SRAM and Shimano 10 speed cassettes spaced the same?


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

kapusta said:


> 23t? Are you talking about the mountain or road RD?
> 
> Also, can you use a shimano shifter/RD with a sram 10 speed cassette? Are the SRAM and Shimano 10 speed cassettes spaced the same?


it's for the Shimano saint m810 SS (legs on a xtr shadow)
actually using the xtr shadow with SGS legs from previus setup, and legs are too long

for shifters with the 10s cassette you can use the R770 or the new gripshifters SEC (from nino, ebay,...) that I'm currently using

And yes, spacing is the same


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## Ohm (Aug 21, 2008)

My setup:
10t difference in the front
11-32 cassette
X-0 short cage

To much slack on the two smallest cogs using the small ring - but thats not a good idea anyhow. I wouldn't go for a 11-34 without changing to a medium cage.


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## marcryan27 (Nov 1, 2008)

i have a 2x9 setup. 22-34 in front & 11-34 at rear. I just broke my long cage xtr rd. Can i replace it with a xt medium(short) rd? or do i have to get another long cage xt rd?


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## GrantB (Jan 10, 2004)

marcryan27 said:


> i have a 2x9 setup. 22-34 in front & 11-34 at rear. I just broke my long cage xtr rd. Can i replace it with a xt medium(short) rd? or do i have to get another long cage xt rd?


(34-22)+(34-11)=35. Look at the published capacity for the medium xt der. I think it is right at 35t.


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## marcryan27 (Nov 1, 2008)

i just check! thanks! one more question. XT or SLX rd? is there really any difference on the 2 of them or just self preference?


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## craigshaf (May 23, 2007)

*Is cage size my problem?*

Just changed my V-10 from DH cassette to a 11-34

I run an X-0 short in the rear, 36t single in the front.

I cannot get the top of the cage to stop rubbing my cassette. Problem is worst when in the 2nd gear, the top of the cage rubs on the 1st (34) gear.

I have tightened the "B" screw down as much as possible to bring the der. as far back as possible.

Is cage length the problem here?


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## scolli (Nov 23, 2009)

I just looked at the XT med cage rd (RD-M772-GS) specs on the Shimano site and it states a 33t capacity. My question is "Are the being overly conservative?". Do you think it will work with a 36-24/34-11 setup?

thx



GrantB said:


> (34-22)+(34-11)=35. Look at the published capacity for the medium xt der. I think it is right at 35t.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

you should be alright... (36-24) + (34-11) = 35T... the OP mentions Shimano med cage being able to handle 39T...



Speedub.Nate said:


> ... Speaking from experience, Shimano is a bit conservative in their capacity rating. I can only assume the same is true of SRAM (I'll get to that, too). ...
> 
> ...(I mentioned that Shimano's stated capacity is conservative, and in practice, I find their medium cage to be closer to 39T.) ...


I just picked up a med cage X0 rear der... and was wondering if I'd be ok, so started searching and stumbled on this thread.... per the formula, I'm more than fine... I'll be running 34/22 front, 34/11 rear.... so (34-22) + (34-11) = 35T.... well within the 37T for Sram Med cage... regardless of whether or not Sram's number is conservative... so I'm good to go.... can't wait to get it built up!!


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## Roasted (Feb 8, 2009)

Just curious, when it comes to visually looking at a rear derailleur, how easy is it to tell what they are?

For example:

https://www.cambriabike.com/Images/product/shimano_altus_rd310.jpg

That RD is listed as long cage. But I just got this RD which is listed as long cage:

https://501main.com/images/library/large/shim_rd_m580_sgs_06_m.jpg

To me, visually, I would have predicted the Altus (first link) would be a medium cage. Is it a typo? Or is there more to visually figuring out on the spot what cage style the RD is?


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## lowestgear (Dec 27, 2009)

marcryan27 said:


> i have a 2x9 setup. 22-34 in front & 11-34 at rear. I just broke my long cage xtr rd. Can i replace it with a xt medium(short) rd? or do i have to get another long cage xt rd?


XT medium cage works GREAT with that setup. Much tighter shifting, less chain slap. Just be sure to set it up so you don't break the chain in the big/big combo and you'll be fine. I ride that kind of setup a lot and personally I prefer to run the chain as snug as it can be on the big/big so I can hit more gears in the small chainring and also to avoid chain slap as much as possible (we have long rocky descents in Colorado!)

And the SLX front is excellent. The XT will tend to toss the chain off the top once in a while, better to invest in an SLX and do it right.

Caveat: Once you try it you'll hate long cage derailleurs


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## NitroPhil (Jun 19, 2010)

*32T Cassette on Road Bike*

Myself and two of my friends have older steel road bikes with standard cranks (53/39) and want larger cogs to spin up the steep hills here in Nor Cal. We have 8 speed setups and are looking at using the SRAM PG-850 cassette (11-32: 11;12;14;16;18;21;26;32 ) 
While the gaps between the 3 largest sprockets is not ideal it should be worth the trade-off to get that 32.50 Gear Inch so we don't ruin our old knees. Shimano makes a medium cage road derailleur (Ultegra RD-670-GS) that has a large 39T capacity but the specs say a max rear cog size of only 28T. We would rather use this than a XT derailleur as it is an ounce lighter and the "look" fits a road bike better. Potential problem, Shimano's spec says that 28T cog is max for this derailleur. Does anyone know if that limitation is realistic or do they say that because they don't make a road cassette larger than 28T? I would think with the 39T capacity it would handle a 32T cog. Has anyone out there tried this combo or know about this?

Phil


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## dadz (Oct 30, 2009)

if i may ask do i need to change my long cage X9 to mid cage X9, if i will install a truvative rock guard and truvative shift guide on my stylo cranks.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

You don't have to change it. Plenty of "take up" to keep tension on the chain. The only advantage to the short cage is less chain and higher RD clearance. I run a short cage with a 2x9.


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## azultoyou (Aug 20, 2009)

Speedub.Nate said:


> Derailleurs have a rated capacity. This is their ability to take up excess chain...


Excellent explanation (the whole piece). I was looking for this exact info in a post earlier today within this group.
Thanks.


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## riderb (Jun 1, 2009)

you all need to quit mathturbating.


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## bobtod (Oct 4, 2010)

Dual ring and bash setup 36/22 (14t) rear cassette 11-28 (17t)

Gives me a total of 31, I want to run a short cage X-9 but SRAM says 30 for short cage. 

Given the bike is an Ibis Mojo SL it has minimal chain growth, do you think I will get away with risking a short cage?

I was going to run a 11-32 rear cassette but I'm going to change the gearing to 11-28 just to get a short cage on being as I don't really climb any crazy hills.

bt


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

bobtod said:


> Dual ring and bash setup 36/22 (14t) rear cassette 11-28 (17t)
> 
> Gives me a total of 31, I want to run a short cage X-9 but SRAM says 30 for short cage.
> 
> ...


I would not change the cassette range just to be able to run a short cage. Remember, the only combos you only risk losing are the small ring with the smallest one or two cogs, which you should not be in anyway.


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## bobtod (Oct 4, 2010)

kapusta said:


> I would not change the cassette range just to be able to run a short cage. Remember, the only combos you only risk losing are the small ring with the smallest one or two cogs, which you should not be in anyway.


So you're saying run a short cage with 11-32 but be strict in gear selection avoiding the small - smallish gears?

I'm still building the bike up from scratch so I haven't purchased a cassette yet, the 11-28 cassette (PG950) is 70gm lighter and half the price of the 11-32 (PG990) so that was a factor as well, I cant' remember the last hill I needed granny to big cog.

Also how would a chain tensioner effect this? other than a couple more links in the chain I assume the same formula applies?

thanks

bt


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## punchy (Sep 30, 2008)

G'day fella's.

Lots of good info on this thread. But im still left a little confused. So I'll chime in with a few questions of my own.

This is more so a mountain bike based debate. And I keep reading alot of 32-34 front ring set ups. Im actually setting up a 1x9 on my Salsa for road cycling. But I want a MTB cassette in the rear to give me a broad range of gears to tackle some hills and also keep up a good pace with a high enough gear on the flats.

I was thinking of a 11-34T Cassette and possibly a 48T ring up front. From what ive read in this thread a short cage derailer would work fine. Is this the case ? If so, can anyone recommend a derailer. Can I use a road type derailer with this set up. Or does it HAVE to be a MTB derailer ?

Cheers

Steve


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

punchy said:


> G'day fella's.
> 
> Lots of good info on this thread. But im still left a little confused. So I'll chime in with a few questions of my own.
> 
> ...


Yes, a short cage will work, but it will likely have to be a mountain derailleur. The issue is not the capacity of the cage (how much chain slack can be taken up) but the maximum size cog the derailleur will clear. As a RD moves up the cassette (into a lower gear) it also moves the guide pulley farther out from the axle, to accommodate the larger cogs. Typically, road cassettes don't have a large cog bigger than 27t, so road RD's don't move as far out a mountain RD's that have to accommodate much larger cogs. The last time I tried to run a road RD (newer Ultegra) with an 11-34 cassette, it could not clear the biggest cog.

Of course, you can always stick the bigger cassette on see if the road RD works before buying the mountain RD. Can't hurt to find out. But I don't think it will.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

bobtod said:


> So you're saying run a short cage with 11-32 but be strict in gear selection avoiding the small - smallish gears?
> 
> I'm still building the bike up from scratch so I haven't purchased a cassette yet, the 11-28 cassette (PG950) is 70gm lighter and half the price of the 11-32 (PG990) so that was a factor as well, I cant' remember the last hill I needed granny to big cog.
> 
> ...


If you like the price and weight of the 11-28 enough to justify loosing the 32t cog, then get the 11-28.

I'm simply saying don't base your cassette decision on the cage size it requires.

On the other hand, if you NEVER use your lowest gear combo, why run a 22t ring? Maybe a 24t would make more sense.


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## bapesta (Feb 12, 2008)

I'm thinking to run a single 32T at the front and a 10sp cassette of 12-36 at the back, can I run a short cage RD with that set up?

thanks


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

bapesta said:


> I'm thinking to run a single 32T at the front and a 10sp cassette of 12-36 at the back, can I run a short cage RD with that set up?
> 
> thanks


This thread has answered this question many, many times.


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## bapesta (Feb 12, 2008)

should work?I tried to do the math, but then I don't know what to do with the front set up(I run single)

thanks


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

bapesta said:


> should work?I tried to do the math, but then I don't know what to do with the front set up(I run single)
> 
> thanks


The biggest ring and smallest ring are both 32t, so 32-32=0. What that formula does is calculate the range of the rings and the range of the cogs and add them together. The range of a single ring is zero, regardless of the size.


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## bapesta (Feb 12, 2008)

ok...the rear would be 36-12=24T. the max capacity on short SRAM is 25T rite?

so, I can run short on that set up yea?

btw, the RD would be the new X.9

thanks


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## pamt (May 28, 2009)

Ok just to throw a wrench into the whole thing I'm in the process of upgrading my 9er to a 2x10 using the new X9 group. Going with the PG-1070 cassette at 12-36. On Tree Forts site it states that only the long cage Sram/Shimano RD will work with this cassette.....

http://www.treefortbikes.com/cat/0/127/Parts.html#navbar=pro___333222365558___91

WHY?


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## SpartyBiker (Mar 31, 2008)

1x9 (36T x 11-32)

Short cage SRAM works perfectly.


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

I need some advice. I'm in the process of buying SLX ders. for my upcoming On-One 456SS build. I have the dual ring SLX 665 crank with 22/36 (will most likely change to 24/36). 

Front der. will be the dual ring specific SLX 667, rear cassette of 11-34 SLX, now question is, do I get the GS (medium) or SGS (long) cage rear der.?

If I get the GS, I won't be able to drop into into the smallest 1x1 gear combo correct?


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

eurospek said:


> I need some advice. I'm in the process of buying SLX ders. for my upcoming On-One 456SS build. I have the dual ring SLX 665 crank with 22/36 (will most likely change to 24/36).
> 
> Front der. will be the dual ring specific SLX 667, rear cassette of 11-34 SLX, now question is, do I get the GS (medium) or SGS (long) cage rear der.?
> 
> If I get the GS, I won't be able to drop into into the smallest 1x1 gear combo correct?


Lots of extraneous info here. All that you need to know is the size of the largest and smallest chain-rings (which it appears you have not yet decided on), and the largest and smallest cogs in the rear.

Also, have you looked up the capacities for the GS and SGS RD's? If so, tell us what they are so we don't have to go look them up.


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

kapusta said:


> Lots of extraneous info here. All that you need to know is the size of the largest and smallest chain-rings (which it appears you have not yet decided on), and the largest and smallest cogs in the rear.
> 
> Also, have you looked up the capacities for the GS and SGS RD's? If so, tell us what they are so we don't have to go look them up.


Okay, decided then.

36/24 up front. 11-34 cassette. GS capacity is 35T, SGS capacity is 45T.

Can I get away with a GS and still use the 1x1 gear combo?


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

eurospek said:


> Okay, decided then.
> 
> 36/24 up front. 11-34 cassette. GS capacity is 35T, SGS capacity is 45T.
> 
> Can I get away with a GS and still use the 1x1 gear combo?


(36-24)+(34-11)=35

So, yes.


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

kapusta said:


> (36-24)+(34-11)=35
> 
> So, yes.


So with a 36/22 which equals 37, I wouldn't be able to use GS? I'm just worried about damaging something with the GS der. even if the 36/24 fits and it just makes the 35 capacity cutoff.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

eurospek said:


> So with a 36/22 which equals 37, I wouldn't be able to use GS? I'm just worried about damaging something with the GS der. even if the 36/24 fits and it just makes the 35 capacity cutoff.


Yes, you could still use the GS with the 36/22, but you MIGHT lose the small/small combo.


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## BPrince (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks Speedub.Nate,good info,just what I needed.


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

kapusta said:


> Yes, you could still use the GS with the 36/22, but you MIGHT lose the small/small combo.


Thanks for the help Kapusta. I just ordered the SLX M662 GS and will return the SGS model. I do like the additional clearance from rocks and trees and I can't remember the last time I used the small-small combo on my previous bike BUT I do remember needing my rear der. straighten once or twice from getting stuck or hit on the path.


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## digglesworth (Jan 31, 2011)

i was running an 11-34 pg-990 cassette with a 24/36/bash up front. i ran a short-cage (GS) XTR rear der with the XTR dual-control levers. everything worked awesome. i could hit every gear in both front rings with no issues. i ran this setup for years on my NRS. now im building a Trance X frame and want a similar setup but im very confused by all these formulas and ratios and what-not.... its usually a matter of trial and error for me... now they threw 10-speed in the mix so now im really up in the air about what to run... MED X0 w/ 10spd cassette and a 26/39 in front. i really like the bashguard so can i get the 10spd triple crankset and replace the 3 rings with a 26/39/bash...? do thet even make a bashguard that will work with a 39t middle ring...? im so lost


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## digglesworth (Jan 31, 2011)

after re-reading this info, i think i got a handle on it. the only thing im unsure about is how to tell where my chainstay length is maxed out due to suspension travel. do you just measure from the bottom bracket back to the rear axle at several points while youre moving the rear triangle thru its range of motion...?


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

riderb said:


> you all need to quit mathturbating.


+1....I said the same thing, nearly three years ago!


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## mudlake (Feb 3, 2009)

32t chainring 11 34 cassette (1x9) sram x7
Without being to technical my head is spinning already short,medium ,or long cage


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## oheckler (Jan 26, 2008)

Short cage will work perfectly. I was running a short cage derailleur with a 12-34 8sp cassette and a 32t chainring. I've now switched to an 11-36 10sp cassette with a short cage derailleur and a 32t chainring.
This, by the way, has turned out to be the ideal setup for me.


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## Bataivah (Feb 19, 2011)

digglesworth said:


> after re-reading this info, i think i got a handle on it. the only thing im unsure about is how to tell where my chainstay length is maxed out due to suspension travel. do you just measure from the bottom bracket back to the rear axle at several points while youre moving the rear triangle thru its range of motion...?


Your longest chainstay length should be when the bike is sitting level. As a rear wheel moves upwards along it's travel, the chainstay should get shorter as it goes. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Bataivah (Feb 19, 2011)

oheckler said:


> Short cage will work perfectly. I was running a short cage derailleur with a 12-34 8sp cassette and a 32t chainring. I've now switched to an 11-36 10sp cassette with a short cage derailleur and a 32t chainring.
> This, by the way, has turned out to be the ideal setup for me.


Do you have any problems running your chain on the small cog's with a short cage? I'm thinking about going from a 3x9 to a 2x9 with a Med. cage.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Bataivah said:


> Your longest chainstay length should be when the bike is sitting level. As a rear wheel moves upwards along it's travel, the chainstay should get shorter as it goes. Correct me if I'm wrong.


On many bikes the opposite is true: the chainstay length will grow throughout the first part (if not all) of the compression cycle. I know this is the case with both high/forward single pivot bikes I have owned. In fact, I would guess that few FS bikes have the longest chainstay length at full extension (in other words, no compression).


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## Bataivah (Feb 19, 2011)

I figured with some of these new elaborate suspension set-ups that the opposite could be true. I guess you just have to check the length at the low and high points to see.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Bataivah said:


> I figured with some of these new elaborate suspension set-ups that the opposite could be true. I guess you just have to check the length at the low and high points to see.


It is actually some rather old and simple designs (in particular the high/forward single pivot like the Santa Cruz Superlight, Heckler, and, many others) that this is most true for (extending chainstay length under compression).


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## spooney (Jun 1, 2010)

i think of it like this if your running a triple use a long cage, a double use a medium, and a single short simple and works


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## Postmodvm (May 20, 2006)

Hi there guys.
I've been reading this thread carefully and it's really great info 

One question.

I'm thinking on going single ring on my 2006 Spec' Enduro.
I was thinking about a 32T up front and a 11-36 10 speed cassette, with a 2011 Sram X9 Short Cage derailleur.

So... the specs in the Sram website say that the derailleur can handle a max of 36T. That's good because i can use the 11-36.

Now... my question is ... do you think that with this setup the chain will be too loose ?
I ride pretty hard so i'm having some doubts about all this chain issue.


In your opinion, do you think that 32T + 11-36 10s + short derailleur is a good match?
If not, what would be the best combo to keep a short derailleur ( 11-34? )

The problem is that the trails i ride, here in Portugal, have lots of potential targets for my pedals and rear derailleurs, that's why i want to change to a short cage ... my medium cage broke after a direct it with a small rock in the trail and i know if it was a short it wouldn't touch it :x

Thank you all


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Postmodvm said:


> Now... my question is ... do you think that with this setup the chain will be too loose ?
> I ride pretty hard so i'm having some doubts about all this chain issue.
> l


I don't understand, why would the chain be loose? If anything, this setup will give you very good chain tension, as you can run the chain shorter than with a 3 ring setup.


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## Postmodvm (May 20, 2006)

Kapusca, thanks for the reply.
Well, i remember reading that for the chain to fit the rear 36T... when you would shift to the 11T gear the chain could be too loose. Meaning, have a good fit on the 36T on the rear you would have a loose chain in the 11T cog...

Sorry, i don't know if i'm explaining correctly.


So, in your opinion, the 11-36T cassette along with a short cage derailleur and a 32-34T chainring would be a good setup, yes?

thank you
Pedro


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Postmodvm said:


> Kapusca, thanks for the reply.
> Well, i remember reading that for the chain to fit the rear 36T... when you would shift to the 11T gear the chain could be too loose. Meaning, have a good fit on the 36T on the rear you would have a loose chain in the 11T cog...
> 
> Sorry, i don't know if i'm explaining correctly.
> ...


36 - 11 = 25 teeth of slack in your smallest cog. That is not much (if you have a big ring now, then you are already dealing with way more slack than that in your middle ring). Even a short cage will easily accommodate that and still keep good tension. I would not start limiting my cassette cog range on a single ring setup just to avoid a few more teeth worth of slack.

Only you can know how much gearing range you need. Personally, If I'm not going 11-36, I don't see any point in going 10 speed in the first place, as the only advantage I see over 9 is the ability to run a wider range cassette.


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## Postmodvm (May 20, 2006)

Kapusta, this is a AM rig, so the ability to go uphill must be there.
The reason i'm changing to single ringle, is basically because i don't use the 22T chain ring anymore. 

After a full year with the 2 chainring setup my body prefers a 32-34T, handling the uphills in a more relaxed way than with a smaller 22T ( don't know why ... my heart rate just goes sky high if i use the 22T ... but if i use the 32T, although i use more energy, my heart rate is controlled... )

I'm using a 11-34T cassette at the moment, that's why i was trying to decide if i should go 36T or keep the 34T in the rear  That will basically tell me if i will get a 10 or a 9 speed cassette ... 

( Oh... and spending more money too  )


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## ryguy135 (Sep 24, 2010)

Read through this and still have a question. I'm converting my XT/XTR drivetrain from 3x10 to a 1x10. It came with a long cage derailleur. Shift quality is excellent, however, so is it worth buying a shorter derailleur, of should i just stick with what I have?


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## rizeNclimb (Jul 19, 2009)

adiokyro said:


> i have always run 11-34/long cage/xt triggers and because of mainly this thread i set my new rize up with pg990 11-32, X-0 medium cage, and X-0 twisters--i really really love this set up, ive never ridden anything with such nice crisp and quick shifting! i love that i can dump all 9 in a single twist--really love it


im looking for new setup, you still like this one?


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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)

I'm planning on running XTR Trail 2x10 system on my new trail bike build. The front will be 26-38 and the rear cassette will be 11-36. If I am reading this thread correctly, the math would be 12 + 25 = 37. I'm trying to order the components and was trying to decide between a XTR 985 shadow plus GS or SGS rear derailleur. The max capacity listed for GS is 35T and for SGS is 41T. It appears that the only option is the SGS, but all the vendors I have talked to say the GS should work fine. Can anyone clarify this for me? Thanks.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

yangpei said:


> I'm planning on running XTR Trail 2x10 system on my new trail bike build. The front will be 26-38 and the rear cassette will be 11-36. If I am reading this thread correctly, the math would be 12 + 25 = 37. I'm trying to order the components and was trying to decide between a XTR 985 shadow plus GS or SGS rear derailleur. The max capacity listed for GS is 35T and for SGS is 41T. It appears that the only option is the SGS, but all the vendors I have talked to say the GS should work fine. Can anyone clarify this for me? Thanks.


My understanding is that Shimano is a tad conservative with their capacity estimates. At least they have been in the past.

Worst case scenario is that you loose your small/small combo.


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## tsivis83 (Feb 18, 2009)

I use a 24.36 crankset with a 11/32 cassette and a supershort shimano saint. I use the granny ring with the 4 biggest cogs and the 36t chainring with the first 6 smaller cogs of the cassette. Even if you make a mistake and don't select the correct combination of gears the derailleur will either stretch too much or the chain will slack too much but nothing will brake if you size your chain correctly.


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## uraso (Sep 23, 2009)

newbie here, man mountain biking is more technical than i thought


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

uraso said:


> newbie here, man mountain biking is more technical than i thought


Nah, this might be technical, but it's not mountain biking. Not even close. And if you've got any doubts, the fallback is to slap a long cage on your build (or replace a broken derailleur with whatever was there originally). Just like you don't need to be a metallurgist or a welder to enjoy a particular frame, you don't need to know any of this discussion exists to hit the dirt and have a great ride.


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## luvdabeach2001 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ok I have determined I have to be running a X7 long cage max capacity 47T, 44/32/22 & 12-36 = 46T. So if my chain is correct length I should be able run in little-little and big-big. Is that correct?


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

luvdabeach2001 said:


> Ok I have determined I have to be running a X7 long cage max capacity 47T, 44/32/22 & 12-36 = 46T. So if my chain is correct length I should be able run in little-little and big-big. Is that correct?


Yes.

Well, yes in that you're not going to break anything or drop the chain, but not that you should actually use those cross-chain combinations.

But yes.


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## tnd2gen (Feb 12, 2012)

Medium cage shifting is crisper than with long cage, and cage is stiffer. I've bent a few long cages, and no medium cages. I run 11-32 cassette with a Sram X9 derailleur.


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## agg25 (Dec 21, 2009)

yangpei said:


> I'm planning on running XTR Trail 2x10 system on my new trail bike build. The front will be 26-38 and the rear cassette will be 11-36. If I am reading this thread correctly, the math would be 12 + 25 = 37. I'm trying to order the components and was trying to decide between a XTR 985 shadow plus GS or SGS rear derailleur. The max capacity listed for GS is 35T and for SGS is 41T. It appears that the only option is the SGS, but all the vendors I have talked to say the GS should work fine. Can anyone clarify this for me? Thanks.


I think you did the maths wrong here - 
38+32 = 70
26+11 = 37
70-37 = 33

which is less than 35, so should be right.
Did you end up buying this setup because it's exactly what I was looking at getting for a 150mm trail bike build?


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## petercarm (Nov 5, 2007)

agg25 said:


> I think you did the maths wrong here -
> 38+32 = 70
> 26+11 = 37
> 70-37 = 33
> ...


Devil is in the details. 11-36 cassette.

I've just converted a triple XTR to double and have an 11-36 on the back. Also allowing for chain growth in the suspension movement this c homes close to needing 39t capacity.

Currently I'm running an SGS, but I have a GS on my 1x setup on another bike. I'll try swapping things around to see if the GS has the capacity for the 2x drivetrain.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk


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## agg25 (Dec 21, 2009)

Doh, where'd I get 32 from! 
Well, would be good for me if you could test, I've got about 3 more weeks before I'm ordering it, some people say go for the GS, some are saying the SGS.
How have you found the SGS anyway?
Cheers ears.


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## petercarm (Nov 5, 2007)

petercarm said:


> I'll try swapping things around to see if the GS has the capacity for the 2x drivetrain.


I've done the checks and the GS doesn't really work out for 38/26 and an 11-36 cassette. Here are the pics:

The first set of pictures are with the chain sized for:
big+big+2 links (Shimano requirement)+2 links (chaingrowth)

Pic 1: 38F+36R, suspension at top out (no chaingrowth):









Pic 2: 38F+36R, suspension at bottom out (max chaingrowth)









Pic 3: 26F+11R at top out (slack chain)









Pic 4: 26F+17R at top out (first reasonable tension)










Pic 5: Confirmation of not possible combination for 26F and 11R, 13R and 15R (although chaingrowth would add a little tension)










I then shortened the chain by 2 links as a torture test.

Pic 6: 26F+11R at top out (adequate tension)










Pic 7: 38F+36R at top out










WARNING!!!! DERAILLER TORTURE!!!!
Pic 8: 38F+36R at bottom out (the chain *IS* too short)










Finally I show the GS derailleur in its intended application with a 1x drivetrain

Pic 9: 34F+36R at bottom out










Pic 10: 34F+11R at top out


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## agg25 (Dec 21, 2009)

Post of the year Peter!! Thanks mate, that was really helpful. Has certainly made me realise the SGS is the one for me. Now go and tell your derailer you'll never treat it that bad again!


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## So Cal RX (Oct 1, 2005)

Thanks Peter for the awesome post and photos! I had been contemplating GS vs. SGS on a 2 x 10 setup myself for awhile, now I'm gonna go SGS for sure.


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## AlienRFX (Sep 27, 2006)

Thanks for all the good info in this thread, especially the pics, I'm in the middle of converting from a 3x9 to a 2x10 drive train with 26-38 xt crank and 11-36 xt casette. I'm going with an m985 but was having trouble deciding on a GS or SGS cage. Called shimano today they said SGS with that combo, this thread confirms it.


One question though, when sizing the chain you obviously run the chain big big at full bottom out. They say Add 2 links. I need clarification on 2 links. is that one outer and inner pair, as in 1 inch of chain, or two inner and outer pairs as in 2 inches of chain?


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Two half-inch links has always been my interpretation. Or one inner plus one outer, plus another inner if necessary.


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## Mulloway69 (Apr 14, 2012)

So basically you can get away with and extra 2 teeth over the total capacity of a an Xtr, so 37 for the GS and 43 for the SGS, would anyone say this a fair rule of thumb for most rated total capacities?

I want to upgrade my rear to an 11-36 10sp but still want to keep my 22-44 triple 9sp Shimano on the front. After searching I have worked out that Shimano do not make a 10sp rear with a 47t total capacity (45 would probably do) so I have decided to go with an Sram X0 long cage at the back, pity as I did want to try out the Xtr.

If I upgraded to triple 10sp at the front my range would go from 17.9/104 gear inches to 17.3/99.3 whereas if I just get the Sram rear I maintain my 104 low combination and get 15.9 for my high combination.

Personally I like the range I have but if I am going to shell out money to upgrade I want a decent increase in my range rather than more gears in a smaller range.


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

I'm using an XT GS (mid-cage) derailleur with 22-33 rings up front and an 11-36 cassette. So my 36t total is 1 tooth more than the rated 35t capacity, and it works fine. This is on a full-suspension bike with 100mm rear travel. I can use the big ring/big cog combo at full suspension travel and there is still chain tension in the small ring/small cog combo.


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## Mulloway69 (Apr 14, 2012)

^ So you allowing 2 for your travel you are basically 3 over the 35 total capacity.

I wonder if petercarm has used a new chain in his test above and if not the relative stretch compared to yours. 

He was 4 over and it looks like if you took a link out the chain would go close to being correctly tensioned in his first high combination.


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## solitone (Apr 27, 2011)

*Better chain tension w/shorter cage?*



Speedub.Nate said:


> Benefits of a shorter cage length?
> - snappier shifts
> - *better chain tension*
> - less chain slap / greatly decreased drivetrain noise (!)
> ...


Why would chain tension be better with a shorter cage length?

I'd say the opposite--chain tension would be worse when shifting to small-small combinations.


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## misledmilitia (Apr 12, 2012)

thanks for the info!


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## SideWinderNiner (Dec 31, 2011)

fyi SRAM published a 2013 drivetraincompability chart. Google it because i'm not allowed to post links here yet. :skep:

But I still wonder why specialized is able to put SRAM midcage's on 11-36T cassete's with 28/24 chainrings on the higher end models ?


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

SideWinderNiner said:


> fyi SRAM published a 2013 drivetraincompability chart. Google it because i'm not allowed to post links here yet. :skep:
> 
> But I still wonder why specialized is able to put SRAM midcage's on 11-36T cassete's with 28/24 chainrings on the higher end models ?


Why would a mid-cage NOT work with a 11-36 cassette with a double in the front?


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## SideWinderNiner (Dec 31, 2011)

kapusta said:


> Why would a mid-cage NOT work with a 11-36 cassette with a double in the front?


Well it does work. And works perfectly well because I'm riding a midcage derailleur with 22/36 X0 chainrings and 11-36T XG1080 cassette ;-) (39T capacity). The 9 speed SRAM midcage's are specified as max 37T capacity, and I haven't found max capacity specifications for the 10 speed midcages, until the SRAM 2013 compability charts showed up last week.

SRAM midcage derailleur dimensions didn't change as far as ik know the last couple of years. 9speed or 10 speed derailleur are interchangeable but SRAM marketing seems to think otherwise. I'm not measuring every derailleur out there so some conjecture on my behalf but please correct me if I'm wrong.

The SRAM compability chart shows that a double/triple in front en 11-36 or 12-36 is not compatible with SRAM midcage derailleurs. In case of a warranty claim then SRAM can refer to this compability chart and may conclude you or the manufacturer (specialized) incorrectly installed the derailleur.


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## Gibbersticks (Jun 2, 2012)

I just set-up my 2012 trek fuel ex9 with xt/xtr 2x10 and did the same "test" as Petercarm and I am quite happy with the result. No chain slop and no derailleur snapping tension. I was quite worried as I ordered my parts before I read this thread and after reading it I was convinced I had made a mistake in ordering the GS XTR shadow +.

When I was looking at the capacity numbers of the XTR shadow +, the GS being 35T and the SGS being 41. If the SGS is meant to work with the 3x10 it would need a capacity of 43T. So both are off by 2T if GS was to be for 2x10 and SGS for 3x10. This told me it should be fine and I'm stoked to say that it works perfectly in my case.


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## LGavin (Jul 18, 2011)

Sorry for my ignorance but what does gs and sgs mean? Is this onlyy for shimano?is this short for short and long cage?how aboutthe med cage? Eyeing on buying a shadow plus rd xtr with 38/26 cranks amd 11-36 cogs


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

LGavin said:


> Sorry for my ignorance but what does gs and sgs mean? Is this onlyy for shimano?is this short for short and long cage?how aboutthe med cage? Eyeing on buying a shadow plus rd xtr with 38/26 cranks amd 11-36 cogs


Shimano SS = Short cage

GS = Medium cage

SGS = Long cage


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## LGavin (Jul 18, 2011)

Ah really??so i should use a long cage rd on the 11-36 and 38/26 setup?


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

LGavin said:


> Ah really??so i should use a long cage rd on the 11-36 and 38/26 setup?


I wouldn't go bigger than a GS (Medium cage) for any dual ring setup.


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## meanean (Sep 3, 2012)

cool#2


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## Gibbersticks (Jun 2, 2012)

Technically according to Shimano with an 11-36 and a 38-26 combo you should use a long cage SGS, I went with the GS (medium) and it works fine on my trek fuel. I can't say I have used the small-small combo and can't see why I would. I have used the big-big combo and there are occasional rubbing issues when the shock compresses. I haven't figured out exactly what it is but the derailleur has lots of room to move. It sounds like a cross chaining issue more that anything.


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## Gibbersticks (Jun 2, 2012)

Oh and the GS seems to be at the perfect height to suck in trailside foliage. I have never had to spend so much time pulling grass, etc out of my derailleur pulleys... ever! Weird.


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## Teresa460 (Sep 5, 2012)

i think u shud be fine with that--i had that shadow der too n it is pretty lo-pro. u just cant ever be in ur big/big or small/small but who does that anyway--like my 11-32 tho n seems fine even for steep climbs


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## grandsalmon (Oct 24, 2005)

Considering this thread in a thread: involving the Shimano Trail is a good example of needing to know what is required and how to ascertain what the physical limits (running and static) are.

The Trail crank is purposely set "inboard" more because it is a 2x10, even though you could add a ring if you really wanted to, but won't. But at-the-very-least imagine a three ring crank w the large ring taken off and this is the Trail. The "medium position" ring _is_ your 38. And it is fine to size the chain large to large, because it is okay to run this combo. You may say you don't need it, use it, or it's bad -but it's fine.

Even though the capacity w a 11/36 is beyond a GS, it is only by a little. The rare, impractical, and avoidable is running small to small. If you are just unsure then go w the SGS. But if you want to check to be sure, let the air out of the rear shock and cycle up to create the max chain growth. Lace fully and run big to big w the Rderail cage at a 45+ deg angle to plane - this is the real world set-up, and you can be sure what will be happening when actually riding, boingin' up and down and be in the 38 ring and 36 cog.

This understanding will help you set all future drtivetrains especially 2x10, 2x9 set-ups. And determine the best chain length, derailleur choice, and from there hopefully what is a good chain-line.

Someone above had said they heard a rubbing still when in the large to large despite the adjustments. Look to your Fderail because, at least Shimano, are changing their design so the cinch bolt doesn't rub the chain when in the big (middle position) and the largest cogs in back of your 2x10, and are cycling the suspension.

Remember real world. If I can get by w a shorter cage derail -if it's close by capacity, I will do it because the cage reacts less in the jostle, and I am running a shorter chain.

(Note: You used to have to take in measuring consideration, the possibility of busting a chain -say twice in the backcountry, and having to shorten it. But now w quicklinks [and a couple of links], there is no excuse not being able to maintain the same length you started with.)


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## sammon287 (Apr 7, 2010)

Anyknow the actual diference in cage length between the XT ('12 RD-M780) in GS and SGS? I ripped the derailleur off my Ventana Ciclon and was considering upgrading to the new XT Shadow + M786, but I'm not sure if I want to risk mail ordering a GS length and have it not work. The obvious solution is to get the longer one, but I don't know if that M786 SGS is even longer than the M780 I have now. The Shimano techdocs were no help. I don't want to suffer the same fate with a more expensive part if I can avoid it. I run XT 2x10 38/26 and a 11/36 10sp casette with the bike set to 150mm travel.


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## bosbik (Aug 29, 2011)

not sure if I understand the technicalities but a 32-22 chainring and a 11-34 10sp cogset will work with a med cage RD right?

if I do the math: (32-22)+(34-11)=33
so..the new SLX med cage (GS) RD capacity is 35...i should be good at 33 right?


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## fondazo (Apr 27, 2010)

At least for sram i was using a x9 rd (2011 model) mid cage on a 2x10 (11-36) without problems on a mojo hd, now i'm looking for the same rd but with the type2 stuff but after reading this:

http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/qqVaUJq3ftT6cAd95MLaFm0X-BaFrEMWrc-ZgONMx2I/mtime:1336500165/sites/default/files/techdocs/gen.0000000004184_rev_a_compatibility_map_my13_mtb_components.pdf

...I guess i need the long cage. Is there anyone who have already try this?


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## BluPenguin (Oct 5, 2012)

Has anyone tried using the new 10 spd Shimano SAINT M820 short cage with an 11-36 1x10? the specs list the maximum capacity as 11-34, would that bit more be too much for it? While the bike is a FS, it's a GT I-drive, so the chain growth is rather minimal than some other frames. Any speculations? I have no problem settling for a XT med cage, but if I can get away with a short cage, why not?


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## jkling66 (Nov 17, 2012)

I'm riding only my middle ring up front...with the derailleur as the prevention method to totally dropping a chain off crank....adjusted the cable down to make 1 on the shifter actually be 2 on the derailleur, and adjusted the stops to lock it nearly in place...but allow an 1/8th inch of travel out towards big for when I am in 8 up back.

This is a 32T middle ring. Ground the teeth of my big 42 toother, and took 22 granny off.

In back, I have XT Long Cage Integrated 8 SIS
11, 12, 14, 16, 18, 21, 24, 28. For me...this is amazing..I put a cassette on that was 11-32, but did not have 28...which is undoubtedly my climbing gear, I can't go without it.

Works great...But now that I am on only using the 32 T up front....I think I can go to short cage or medium......

What would you suggest, and can I replace just the cage part? or does the whole derailleur have to go?
For shifters Im still on 1994 grip shifters for 8 speed....which are amazing still...They were very good when released. The SRT500R 

I don't like the new SRAM feel and the in-between indexing. I want single click for each gear, but not cable-pushing release style that sram seems to have addopted...I'd like to keep the same shifters...but I know they are probably worn a bit...

Would the SRAM Attacks be comparable and a good option for more crisp operation without having to "add a little" extra twist and then relax back into gear each time i go to a larger sprocket?


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## Backwoodsguy (Aug 29, 2010)

This is a great thread. 
I am running a single 32t ring up front and just got a 12-36 Shimano HG61 9 speed cassette to put on the back. My X9 short cage rear derailleur could not handle the 36t capacity. Can somone tell me what 9 speed SRAM derailleur I can use with this setup? I called SRAM and they said they do not make any 9speed derailleurs to run a 12-36 cassette? Can someone confirm?


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## Rellik5397 (Dec 17, 2012)

*3x10. Chart?*

I have a 2011 stumpjumper with a 3x10 drive train. I was debating on changing to a 9 speed, butim not sure if this would benefit me or hurt me? If I do stay with the 10 spd is there a chart of the gears for the 10 spd?


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## pedalitup (May 30, 2007)

Sram XX 42/28 rings barely fit with my mid cage XT M-773 using XT 11-36 cassette on a hard tail. I wouldn't attempt those rings and cassette on any dually with known chain growth, it's that tight. On the other hand my 39/26 rings seem to fit in the acceptable window a lot easier. Also, the 39/26 setup performs better here in the flatlands than the 42/28. There's little if any need for a 42/11 combo unless you're on pavement or descending a long mountain fireroad. I'm also talking about being able to use small small and big big as stuff happens in the real world of adrenaline, sudden log crossings, ledges etc. .

I consider my 39/26 rings superior because they work a lot better during the second 20 miles of a long day when those bigger rings feel too high due to fatigue setting in.


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## pedalitup (May 30, 2007)

And on the 12-36 9 speed. . I believe (but am not 100% certain) that those came out more recently than most legacy 9 speed stuff. I love that cassette even tough it weighs 400 grams. I used one on my loaded touring bike with an FC700 34/50 compact crank and older XT short cage rear derailleur.
Barely but still had low enough gear for 101 northbound into constant headwinds on the California coast. Still better than any triple ring setup 99.9% of the time. Never drops a neglected chain, runs quiet etc. .


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## Rellik5397 (Dec 17, 2012)

pedalitup said:


> And on the 12-36 9 speed. . I believe (but am not 100% certain) that those came out more recently than most legacy 9 speed stuff. I love that cassette even tough it weighs 400 grams. I used one on my loaded touring bike with an FC700 34/50 compact crank and older XT short cage rear derailleur.
> Barely but still had low enough gear for 101 northbound into constant headwinds on the California coast. Still better than any triple ring setup 99.9% of the time. Never drops a neglected chain, runs quiet etc. .


So what your saying is the 9 speed double ring is superior over the 3x10? I actually took my top ring off bc like you said its useless unless your on the road or doing really long descends and put a bash gard in place. I'm upgrading my shram junk to shimano derailuer and shifters so I'm trying to decide on a 9 speed drivetrain or 10 again.


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## pedalitup (May 30, 2007)

If you're strong enough to handle the decreased range in gearing 2x10 is always better in my experience.


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## Rellik5397 (Dec 17, 2012)

I'm looking to swap my whole system to xt 9 speed set up. I'm tired of 10 speed bc of the fact the gears are close together so as soon as the rear derailleur gets tweaked it starts acting temperamental and jumping and double shifting. Everyone I see with a 9 speed just grabs there derailleur and bends them back and back to the trails. This is what I'm looking to do let me know if this is a good set up.

Xt sl-m770 rapid fire plus mega 9

Shimano xt FC-m770 crank 24/32/42

Shram pc-991 chain

Shimano xt cs m-770 9 speed cassette - 11/34 

Shimano xt RD-m772-long cage rear derailleur


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## Rellik5397 (Dec 17, 2012)

What is all the talk about generators? Isn't this a mtb forum ?


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## EZuphill (Nov 21, 2011)

Thanks for the discussion. I will be converting from 3x to 1x10, 11-36. 

I'll let u know how it goes. 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## EZuphill (Nov 21, 2011)

With short x9 cage btw

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

My Cannondale Bad Boy Ultra runs a long cage 9-speed X0 rear derailleur with 9-speed, XTR 11-34 cassette SRAM 10-speed chain and 10-speed 46-36 Cyclocross cranks up front.....zero issues, and smooth as butter:


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## HoldTheOnions (Dec 25, 2012)

Hi,

For 1x setup do you think chain will stay on with mid cage or do I need short cage? 

I have a hard tail 29er with 700x25 for comfy road bike. I never shifted the front so removed fd and extra rings and using 36 front with 11-30, which is good except not enough top end and chain falls off on 11t with alivio long cage and so I have it limited to the 13t. Want to go to 42 front and 11-34. Sheldon says 42-34 same as 36-30 for low end and I will have plenty top end for me and no front shifting.

I can get a x5 10 speed for around $35 and shifter for $22, but it's a mid cage. If I have to go x7 for short cage then I may as well just go zee setup for another $20, but that will be around $55 more than x5 setup (rd and shifter) and I'm on a budget and alivio is good for me so x5 should be plenty good too. Not much difference anymore in 9 speed price so figure 10 speed better for the future. I considered 9 speed sora with deore shifter, but then I only have 40 and 11-32, which I guess is ok since 40-11 much better than 36-13 I have now and probably enough, but I read that sora is kinda clunky on 32t.

Thanks for any advice!


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## HoldTheOnions (Dec 25, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback, not like the op is six years old or anything. Went sora ss, xt shifter on sale, 40t and 11-32t. Birthday presents, so have to wait to install it though.  And like that...I'm gone.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Ok, I've read the threads but still want to clarify this. Have 3x9 now but replacing big ring with bash guard. Will be 20/32 up front and 11/34 rear. The math comes out to 35. I'm constantly bending my long cage derailluer/hanger so would like to switch to medium for clearance but The shimano medium cage is listed at a 33 limit. Would i still be fine with shimanos built in fudge factor?


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## grandsalmon (Oct 24, 2005)

bncrshr77 said:


> Ok, I've read the threads but still want to clarify this. Have 3x9 now but replacing big ring with bash guard. Will be 20/32 up front and 11/34 rear. The math comes out to 35. I'm constantly bending my long cage derailluer/hanger so would like to switch to medium for clearance but The shimano medium cage is listed at a 33 limit. Would i still be fine with shimanos built in fudge factor?


You are fine. 
The gear combos -20ring and first few high gears in back you will likely never see/run anyway.
Pick up one or two extra hangers, and start w a freshie for alignment. You have already been tweaking the existing derailleur and present hanger.


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## Stylomat (Aug 19, 2007)

Will a 10 speed cassette, 11/36t and a 34t sprocket in front will work with a sram x0 short cage derailleur? Thanx allready!


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## allthatflash (Sep 6, 2012)

petercarm said:


> I've done the checks and the GS doesn't really work out for 38/26 and an 11-36 cassette. Here are the pics:
> 
> The first set of pictures are with the chain sized for:
> big+big+2 links (Shimano requirement)+2 links (chaingrowth)
> ...


This is what my bike is doing also...I just switched from 24/36 to 26/39 and everything is good till you drop into the small rings and you get a lot of chain slop....I have a Med cage right now and thought it wouls handle the extra 3 teeth, but nope..unless I choose big or small rings but not both. So what do I need another $350 derrailuer


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## allthatflash (Sep 6, 2012)

So someone mentioned that XX and XO are different? How so I have XO everything except for the rear der which is a XX med and trying to get the 26/39 to work properly with a 11-36 cassette. but like the thread above the chain in the big/big rings pull everything foreward but chain is super loose in the small/small rings


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## cornice6 (Aug 23, 2007)

Plenty info but after reading this thread, I am assuming that if I am going Shimano 1x10 using 30T (Wolf)front chainring and 11-36T rear that a Shimano GS rear derailleur would work fine?


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## TheeSuperUberV (Jun 10, 2013)

Which is the better way to get proper chain length? Chain on largest chainring/largest cog as shown on this thread or chain on smallest chainring/smallest cog with chain running through rear derailleur?

The latter method is shown here Installing a Bike Chain - YouTube skip to 4 minutes into video


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## ZexX_pt (May 2, 2010)

petercarm said:


> I've done the checks and the GS doesn't really work out for 38/26 and an 11-36 cassette. Here are the pics:
> 
> The first set of pictures are with the chain sized for:
> big+big+2 links (Shimano requirement)+2 links (chaingrowth)
> ...


Hi,

These pictures are very good!
I am going to buy an xtr group set with 42-30 at the front and 11-36 at the back. This translates to a 37t capacity, and I should use a SGS (long cage).
My interpretation from your pictures is that with a similar configuration with the same 37t tooth capacity I can use a GS (medium) if I have an hardtail. If I had a rear suspension I couldn't like you have shown. 
Does anyone has a different view?

Cheers,
Jose


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## THOE (Jan 9, 2013)

I have experimented with all the different combo's with Sram. FYI use can only use a X9 medium type 2 with the clutch on a 34t it will not work on a 36t in the rear, but you can use a standard medium cage on a 36t cassette it will work. I run 1X10 on two of my bikes and XX1 set up on the other. I also us the XX1 crank with 10 speed chain and cassette with a 9 speed power link.


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## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

When you say it doesn't really work, unless I'm mistaken you are talking specifically about the 26/11, 26/13 and 26/15 combos. And the remainder combos (majority) are fine.

But unless I'm missing something the "problematic" gear ratios represent those that I (and hopefully) most riders in reality would never be in. I spend 95% of my riding in the largest cog and and only hit smaller cog if I need a crazy low ratio for climbing a steep *****. So in my case, surely a 28-40 + 11-36T (37T) would PRACTICALLY be fine if you ignore aforementioned gear combos? Unless I'm missing something?

I'm planning on a buy a GS (medium cage) at this stage for my XTR 2x10 unless I learn something that dispels what I've written



petercarm said:


> I've done the checks and the GS doesn't really work out for 38/26 and an 11-36 cassette. Here are the pics:
> 
> The first set of pictures are with the chain sized for:
> big+big+2 links (Shimano requirement)+2 links (chaingrowth)
> ...


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## ZmyDust (May 13, 2011)

THOE said:


> I have experimented with all the different combo's with Sram. FYI use can only use a X9 medium type 2 with the clutch on a 34t it will not work on a 36t in the rear, but you can use a standard medium cage on a 36t cassette it will work. I run 1X10 on two of my bikes and XX1 set up on the other. I also us the XX1 crank with 10 speed chain and cassette with a 9 speed power link.


I'm late to the party here - but can anybody confirm or deny what this poster is saying? I have 11-36 and will be running a 32t single ring soon. The math says I need something 25t capable, but I'm not wild about the thought that a new Sram Med Cage Type 2 RD won't move up to the 36t.

Any thoughts?


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

ZmyDust said:


> I'm late to the party here - but can anybody confirm or deny what this poster is saying? I have 11-36 and will be running a 32t single ring soon. The math says I need something 25t capable, but I'm not wild about the thought that a new Sram Med Cage Type 2 RD won't move up to the 36t.
> 
> Any thoughts?


I am running a 1x10 Sram X9 setup with a 32t up front and a 11-36 in back with a medium X9 Type2 clutch derailleur, shifts and works flawlessly?


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## ZmyDust (May 13, 2011)

good to know, thanks. it does advertise as 36t capable so I would think so.


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## TJ-87 (Dec 7, 2012)

In2falling said:


> I am running a 1x10 Sram X9 setup with a 32t up front and a 11-36 in back with a medium X9 Type2 clutch derailleur, shifts and works flawlessly?


Are you riding a HT or FS?
I'm about to make the same change on my ibis HD and want to make sure the med cage will work fine.


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## Devincicx (Nov 20, 2011)

Hi

im riding a 29er HT and want to buy a new drivetrain. Im riding 2 x 10 with a sram crankset, 26-39 rings. I'll keep the sram crankset and switch everything over to XTR, I want the clutch rear derailleur, do I need to get a medium or long cage? Or is there only 1 model?

thanks


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

I want to convert back from 1x10 to 2x10. is the Saint m820 Shadow+ can be use without problems with Xt m785 38/26T?


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## Odie1974 (Jun 17, 2013)

Umm, I read the whole thread and I am still confused  I am planning to run 2x10 22/36 in front and 11/36 in the rear. Can I use sram x9 type 2 rear midrange rear der?


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

Is this chain long enough?

so in converted my 3x10 to 1x10. I did largest sprocket + 3 rivets method. Look at thse pic on the smallest and largest. It seems it could use 2 more rivets. What do you guys think?


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## Zac808 (Apr 1, 2010)

Im on the smallest up front and 4th from smallest on rear. Does this mean my chain is to long or cage to long? Im thinking chain.









cent frum my fone so don't cumplane about spelling or grammer


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## bill rogers (May 18, 2014)

so i have a 3x9 setup on my giant reign and abbout to buy a sram x9 rear derailleur and dont know to get a short medium or long one some one plz plz help


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## StevePodraza (Jun 29, 2006)

I'm using saint short with 11-36 xtr 1 x 10 and it's awesome! Almost thinking it works better than my xtr shad plus rear On a liteville 301!


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## Rigo956 (Aug 3, 2014)

*Sram x0 9 speed*

Ok I need some help, I had a shimano slx 3x9 system on my bike and then switched the crank to a race face ride 32t. Problem now is I need a new rear derailleur and was hoping to go to a sram x0 short cage. The rear cassette is 11-34. I tried doing the math and this is what I got: 34-11=23 and this is where I don't know if I got things right 32-32=0, 23+0=23, T:23? Can someone help out?


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## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Your maths is spot on.

I understand the max capacity for a sram x0 short cage is 30T and you have 23T...so well within. Your only issue is calculating the chain length req'd!



Rigo956 said:


> Ok I need some help, I had a shimano slx 3x9 system on my bike and then switched the crank to a race face ride 32t. Problem now is I need a new rear derailleur and was hoping to go to a sram x0 short cage. The rear cassette is 11-34. I tried doing the math and this is what I got: 34-11=23 and this is where I don't know if I got things right 32-32=0, 23+0=23, T:23? Can someone help out?


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## vengance_88 (Apr 6, 2010)

thanks dude nice to know i was wondering the diff verry informative


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## StevePodraza (Jun 29, 2006)

3 x 9 I would think long is your only choice


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## elvinomarin (Jul 16, 2011)

Your post really helpful to understand these derrailures combination, cheers


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## igoris.bo (Jun 8, 2014)

Guys, i have problem.

I had Shimano RD-M773 SGS before. After small accident i ordered upgraded, RD-M786. And now noticed that i have SG version. I ordered it together with XT cassette (11-36), and casette is compatible by tooths. Problem pobably is my chainring. Chainring configuration: 24/32/42.
New derailleur specs:
Max large sprocket : 36 T -OK
Min large spocket: 32 T -OK
Smallest sprocket: 11 T -OK
Front chainwheel teeth difference: 18 T -OK
Total capacity: 35 T, i have (36-11)+18 = 43 -PROBLEM
So, what i should do? Send derailleur back?
Thanks...


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## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

well u need a long cage, SGS, for it all to work as is. Or, get a single raceface wide/narrow to replace your 3x up front and der will be fine. I did that with my trance 3x, it was fantastic. I went a 38T but a 36T would have been better. Consider a 32T or even 34T depending upon your trails and climbing strength.



igoris.bo said:


> Guys, i have problem.
> 
> I had Shimano RD-M773 SGS before. After small accident i ordered upgraded, RD-M786. And now noticed that i have SG version. I ordered it together with XT cassette (11-36), and casette is compatible by tooths. Problem pobably is my chainring. Chainring configuration: 24/32/42.
> New derailleur specs:
> ...


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## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Because it isn't brainiac math, it's very simple math. Secondly, he may want to understand why it all works, not just a black and white answer.



chucvn said:


> Guys, why all the brainiac math? The OP just wants to know what cage to use with his 11-34 cassette.......fer cryin......


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## kalbones_01 (Jul 11, 2014)

Hi to all. Would like to ask suggestions on what type of rear derailleur cage should I need to 2x10 set up. A medium cage or a long cage? My set up would be 38T-26T chain ring and 11T-36T cassette.


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## kalbones_01 (Jul 11, 2014)

By the way, I will be using shimano.


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## AlienRFX (Sep 27, 2006)

Long Cage.


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## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

I had the same (effective) issue as you. I ran a short cage, but had to give up the easiest gear in order to do so. I was happy with that.



kalbones_01 said:


> Hi to all. Would like to ask suggestions on what type of rear derailleur cage should I need to 2x10 set up. A medium cage or a long cage? My set up would be 38T-26T chain ring and 11T-36T cassette.


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## grandsalmon (Oct 24, 2005)

medium will work


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## Ze_Zaskar (Jan 3, 2008)

24-38 front, 11-34 rear, medium cage?
Thanks


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## matte2k (Oct 5, 2015)

I will be using single 46T (or maybe 42T) up front and 8 speed cassette 11-34 in the back. 
I will use SRAM x4 or x5 rear derraileur. Should I choose medium or long? (sram doesnt seem to have short ones).
Please please help with this!


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## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

A 46T!! I think you should opt for bionic legs before worrying about derailleurs lol



matte2k said:


> I will be using single 46T (or maybe 42T) up front and 8 speed cassette 11-34 in the back.
> I will use SRAM x4 or x5 rear derraileur. Should I choose medium or long? (sram doesnt seem to have short ones).
> Please please help with this!


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## matte2k (Oct 5, 2015)

lucifuge said:


> A 46T!! I think you should opt for bionic legs before worrying about derailleurs lol


46T is becauae there will be mounted a Bafang BBS01 mid drive motor kit. And that only comes with 46T. 
Ill have 42T if not Bafang. The bike will be ridden commuter style 100% on bicycle lanes and roads in our just outside of the city.

Medium or long x4 / x5 derailleur? 
I've previously ordered a long cage for this build but maybe I have to rethink?


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## grandsalmon (Oct 24, 2005)

Medium is no problem


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## matte2k (Oct 5, 2015)

grandsalmon said:


> Medium is no problem


But the problem is that Ive ordered a long one. U think I nees to replace it?


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## grandsalmon (Oct 24, 2005)

matte2k said:


> But the problem is that Ive ordered a long one. U think I nees to replace it?


No, not at all, just size the chain correctly, good to go.


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## Blues12 (Sep 29, 2015)

Im kind of lost here...Iam putting together a 2x10 system with an xx 11/36 cassette..
with a 2x10 xx crankset with 29-42 rings....will a medium cage xx derailleur work or do I need a long cage..any help would be appreciated...this is my first build


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## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Well, if it can run a 10-speed chain, this suggests a medium would work!

SRAM XX 10 Speed Rear Mech | Chain Reaction Cycles



Blues12 said:


> Im kind of lost here...Iam putting together a 2x10 system with an xx 11/36 cassette..
> with a 2x10 xx crankset with 29-42 rings....will a medium cage xx derailleur work or do I need a long cage..any help would be appreciated...this is my first build


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## war (Jan 22, 2016)

Hi All. Interested in the 11sp e*thirteen TRS cassette for a 1X setup. the chain capacity would be 35, so i assume it to be compatible with the shimano m-9000 gs cage (max cap is 37). however according to http://www.ridextr.com/specfiles/en/RD Complete Specs.pdf
the low sprocket max is 40T. e*thirteen website reports Shimano compatibility, however:
2016 TRS+ Cassettes | the hive

so basically i want to understand if the TRS cassete and M-9000 are compatible.

sorry if this was already discussed it didn't turn up in a search. thanks.


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## dvXin (Jun 16, 2016)

I noticed that SRAM went with an even longer cage with their new Eagle drivetrain. Looks like a proper long cage RD, since the capacity that they need to handle is 40t (50t big cog - 10t small cog).








- Length of cage evident by how close the lower pulley is to the rim

For Shimano, looks like a GS would barely handle some of the wider range cassettes, since they reportedly have a capacity of 33t, and need to handle a 1x spread of 31 (42-11 = 31), as long as the chain is sized properly (not too long), and the bike isn't a FS design with too much chain growth.


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## Spattah (Jun 19, 2016)

Hi 
Ordered a medium cage XTR M9000 11 speed derailleur to go on my XTR 11-40 cassette and my m9020-2 hollowtech2 26-36 crankset, will i need a long cage for that configuration? gearing will be 2x11 on my setup.


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## grandsalmon (Oct 24, 2005)

Spattah said:


> Hi
> Ordered a medium cage XTR M9000 11 speed derailleur to go on my XTR 11-40 cassette and my m9020-2 hollowtech2 26-36 crankset, will i need a long cage for that configuration? gearing will be 2x11 on my setup.


You're a couple of teeth over the capacity of the GS/med derailleur (37, I believe), so unless you're really careful not to crossring max to max, which w a 2x should be possible either by race or accident- change to a long cage and never worry.


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## Spattah (Jun 19, 2016)

thanks, 
glad i asked before my return policy expires.



grandsalmon said:


> You're a couple of teeth over the capacity of the GS/med derailleur (37, I believe), so unless you're really careful not to crossring max to max, which w a 2x should be possible either by race or accident- change to a long cage and never worry.


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## escapedturkey (Oct 8, 2015)

I will be running 2x9: 36/22 front and 34/11 rear.

Total chain capacity / chain wrap = 37

Is my math correct?

Should I be getting a medium SRAM or long Shimano cage?

Will the medium cage shift faster, in this case SRAM will be better?

Thanks!


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## grandsalmon (Oct 24, 2005)

escapedturkey said:


> I will be running 2x9: 36/22 front and 34/11 rear.
> Total chain capacity / chain wrap = 37
> Is my math correct?
> Should I be getting a medium SRAM or long Shimano cage?
> ...


Your shifter will have to match your derailleur brand -they have different cable pull ratios (for the rear).
A med does not shift faster than a long.
Math is correct but...
I have always been able to fudge a med Shimano past capacity by a couple of teeth.
I personally have a Shimano preference; I've found the springs on Sram (lower end especially) derailleurs to be a bit weak, thus shifting more finicky over time.

I will go check a couple of my older (still) 9speed 2x bikes and see how far I have been able to overshoot w success. Until then, when in doubt, go long.


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## escapedturkey (Oct 8, 2015)

I ordered an SRAM Attack Twist Shifter 9 speed RD shifter to use with a Shimano Acera 9 speed RD. I will also get an SRAM X9 microshift for the front Acera RD (2x10 crankset). That way I can keep using Shimano RD/FD.

I'm looking into upgrading the RD mech. Considering a used long cage Shimano XTR RD-952. Good or bad idea?


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## grandsalmon (Oct 24, 2005)

Hmmm....

Different "long" & "medium" derailleurs from different model-change years, or epochs really (Shimano / mountain), are not always the same, speaking of the 952. And you do not know the history o' that used XTR. Nice derailleur and all, I have a couple in the bin that will go on older bikes for sure. 
But $55 gets you a new Shadow M772 9 speed long cage though (strong spring), and w new Sram Attacks 2:1, you are guaranteed as crisp shifting possible for such a combination -and that's a pleasure. You will be able to concentrate on riding more.

Poor shifting is like a disease, it can creep up on you. You put up w it for a while, making further accommodations i.e. slight overshifts for slop etc... Instead plunk down for new, longer shifting "life".


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## escapedturkey (Oct 8, 2015)

You have a good and valid point about that. I'm just so tired of our environment piling in heaps of throw away items instead of rebuilding or restoring products. Pet peeve.


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## grandsalmon (Oct 24, 2005)

escapedturkey said:


> You have a good and valid point about that. I'm just so tired of our environment piling in heaps of throw away items instead of rebuilding or restoring products. Pet peeve.


I can definitely respect that ethic. 
But since you are overhauling the whole drivetrain, spend what is relatively very little -especially now- on that Shadow M772. The rear derail is a hardworking, complicated part, and an important place to start new & fresh, truly.


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## escapedturkey (Oct 8, 2015)

I'm about to order the M772 as you suggested. Jenson says to get medium because it's double front with 36/22 and 34/11 .. agree or disagree?

Shimano XT RD-M772 9SPD Rear Derailleur > Components > Drivetrain > Mountain Rear Derailleurs | Jenson USA


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## grandsalmon (Oct 24, 2005)

escapedturkey said:


> I'm about to order the M772 as you suggested. Jenson says to get medium because it's double front with 36/22 and 34/11 .. agree or disagree?
> 
> Shimano XT RD-M772 9SPD Rear Derailleur > Components > Drivetrain > Mountain Rear Derailleurs | Jenson USA


I always assume w a double, I am fine w a GS. I run my newer shadow plus on my 10sp w 35 capacity w actual 37 existing (11x36, 26/38), and I can't afford more overshoot really.

Your 9sp Shadow GS has specs of 33 to 35 depending on where you read it (Shimano says 33 on spec sheet for the M772)
So, reasonably go over a couple of teeth, but if it is really 33, and your 37, you're too short. Call Jenson back and give them the figures. Answer back here for narrative/informative sake, thanks.


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## escapedturkey (Oct 8, 2015)

Even better, I called Shimano. Impressive tech support. 

They said to get the SGS.

My capacity: 37

SGS = 45 

GS = 35

Recommendation?


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## grandsalmon (Oct 24, 2005)

If this was for a raucous MTB, downhill et al, I would say GS (but then safe assumption a dual suspension, then might worry about chain-growth between front and rear depending on design, so on and so on...)

But for your hardtail, less-antic riding style, less worry if big/big, less stress on upper spring arm, SGS is the way to go!


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## escapedturkey (Oct 8, 2015)

Ordered it! Thanks!


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## phdinfunk (Nov 22, 2011)

After reading all this, I'm wanting to clarify. I have a nice 2x10 setup I've been using with a saint shifter pod and an m780-SGS XT rear mech. It's shadow but not shadow "plus" with the extra tension and stuff. Now I really want to drop the front derailleur and switch to 1x10 with a Sunrace 11-40 1x10 cassette.

The thing that worries me is that I'll probably be using a 28T front cog (I live among high mountains and I really need the bottom end more than the top)

Do I need to worry about chain slap or having chainline problems with this setup? From reading all this, I grok that GS might be optimal. Should I plan on using a chainguide since my rear mech is only Shadow and not Shadow + and it's also SGS? Or can I proceed and not anticipate any problems?

Thanks. [


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## ka81ua (Oct 14, 2014)

36-22 + 36-11 = 39
Shimano XTR Shadow Plus RD-M986 10-speed - short, medium or large?


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## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

ka81ua said:


> 36-22 + 36-11 = 39
> Shimano XTR Shadow Plus RD-M986 10-speed - short, medium or large?


dont believe there's a 'short' for Shimano. There's medium and long, you definitely need a long.


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## ka81ua (Oct 14, 2014)

lucifuge said:


> dont believe there's a 'short' for Shimano. There's medium and long, you definitely need a long.


https://www.bike-components.de/en/S...us-RD-M986-10-fach-p33270/black-short-o20079/
short and long (at least they say so)



lucifuge said:


> There's medium and long, you definitely need a long.


why? lot of people say medium... bike - under nickname

by the way, shimano does not know about XTR RD-M986 10sp )))
XTR M9000


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## ChILd_ReBoRn (Jul 30, 2015)

real life question..

Without any theoretical explanations.. can a shimano GS (not the new 8000 model.. older ones) with a shimano rated capacity of 35T work with a 39T combo?

I found all different explanations.. yes... no... wont work in cross gears...

I need real life application (talking STRICTLY about HT bikes).. can a man use GS RD for a 39T combo and drive around without sitting on a dissaster waiting to happen?? I know that SGS is a proper way to go, but I know there are people runing GS on 39T.. so .. people... enlighten me. I got into a discussion (theoretical mostly) without real life ridfing to back it up.... One guy broke a chain, although don't know how to relate the capacity with chain breaking...if it shifted normally up to the breaking point...


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## dubya3 (May 1, 2016)

I just got my package of new M8000 1x11 group today for my Fatboy







and think I may have ordered the wrong deraileur..

The cassette is the 11-46t 11 speed and I thought I needed the M8000 GS deraileur but I'm afraid it won't hit that last 46t cog, am I okay or do I need to exchange for the SGS. Probably should have asked before I ordered :/









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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

The GS cage is the right cage for 1x, the SGS cage is for 2x and 3x.
The size of the cage has nothing to do with the biggest sprocket it can clear.
And the M8000 can clear sprockets up to 46 teeth. You have to put a chain in there and adjust the B-screw.


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## dubya3 (May 1, 2016)

Aglo said:


> The GS cage is the right cage for 1x, the SGS cage is for 2x and 3x.
> The size of the cage has nothing to do with the biggest sprocket it can clear.
> And the M8000 can clear sprockets up to 46 teeth. You have to put a chain in there and adjust the B-screw.


Thank you! My local friend said that about an hour ago when I asked but it's good to have confirmation from another set of ears.

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## Godlys (Apr 1, 2017)

hello everyone

i read all pages and links and bit lost so better to ask
need total capacity to pick RD and cassette with front drivetrain 

1. how is calculated single drive?? just difference on cassete without front drive train? no matter how big drivetrain is? is that right? 

2. on 2x/3x drivetrains u said difference in cassette and drivetrain to summarize
but what if no chaincrossing 
let me try explain

front 22-32-44 cassette 9-42
obviously i cant use 22-9 or 44-42 because chain crossing and ofc total capacity in this case go over 50+++
so does total capacity count if lets say i use 
22 with bigest 2-3 on cassette think is 44-35-28 
32 with middle area 28-24-20-17
44 with highest gear 14-12-10-9
so does i calculate total only with speeds i use and lets say 22-32, 32-44 drivetrains???
as this calculation giving me next total capacitys
22-32 with 44-35-28 TC 26
22-32 with 28-24-20-17 TC 21
32-44 with 28-24-20-17 TC TC 23
44-32 with 14-12-10-9 TC 23
and if only 2x with 11speed cassette then TC is up more 
lets say 30-44 front cassette 30-46
30-44 with 46-39-33-28-24 TC 36
44-30 with 24-20-17-14-12-10-9 TC 29
is this right??? or iam totaly wrong and must calculate whole range even if i dont use some speeds or dont go to chaincrossing


hope i explained good so by this if i use long cage i shoud have more space for misshifting without any problems and to have RD with big wrap because of big cassette ?? ofc if my understanding is right 

sry all for bit long post but hope someone can clariffy me all this so i dont get something wrong
and ty all


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## lucifuge (Jul 1, 2011)

Unfortunately it's not clear what you are talking about, mainly because you're not making it clear with what you are trying to achieve. What front and rear setup are you trying to get working?


Godlys said:


> hello everyone
> 
> i read all pages and links and bit lost so better to ask
> need total capacity to pick RD and cassette with front drivetrain
> ...


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## Godlys (Apr 1, 2017)

i want to get 10 speed 9-42 casette e-thirteen what they say work only with max 2x drivetrain but i want to keep also 42-46 drivetrain what come only with 3x or custom 2x

or their 11 speed 9-46 what they say only work on single drivetrains 

in short i want 9-10-12-14 cogs to be used with high 40-46 front drivetrain for descent, but at same time i need also climbing capabilitys so need also 22-34 drivetrain 

plz help me how to decide what need be done
atm runing options are 44-32-22 sram X0 with cassette 11-36
XTR 980 22-32-40 with RD 986 shadow 45TC cassette 11-36

asked around and ppl saying to me in bike shops that i cant get e-thirteen to stick on them as i want to put on XTR bit bigger drivetrain instead 40-42 i want get 44-46 as biggest and to have also small one for climb

so how to get this cassette to work with 44-46 drivetrain for descent and to have also some climb capabilitys

ty for fast responding


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## mudfish801 (Dec 14, 2007)

42-9=33, 46-22=24. 33+24= 57. Good luck finding a rear mech with a range of 57. 
Do you really need a 22/46 gear? 


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## mudfish801 (Dec 14, 2007)

Write the guys at oneup, you could be using their 46 cog, right. They might help you. 


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## Godlys (Apr 1, 2017)

thats why i ask here if someone can suggest me how to sort it and whats be possible
after some reserching i got to available plan to build with some modifications

droping triple drivetrain to double
that be giving me 
drivetrain 30-44 = 14
e-thirteen cassette 9-42 = 33
total 47 can this rear mech 45t survive or must drop to 30-42 drivetrain to fit exact 45t

as i dont have experience with cassettes is all cogs can be placed on each cassette???
on what i need to pay attention
as i see 10 speed cassettes 11-36 that be perfect for my setup give me more to play on drivetrain if i can fit smallest 4 cogs on from e-thirteen also bother me as at middle cassette will be bit bigger gap in gears tooth wise

10 speed SRAM 11-36 cassette = 11, 12, 14, 16, 18, 21, 24, 28, 32, 36 
moded version instead original e-thirteen or shimano will be = 9, 10, 12, 14, 18, 21, 24, 28, 32, 36

will this be problem IF cassettes can be builded separatly 
also one more question when allready aking here even its not for here 
about drivetrain can i convert triple in double by removing smallest chainring to keep middle and big one. because all i see is removing mostly biggest one??? do i need specific double drivetrain as if i understand good i need spacer outside big chainring to keep drivetrain bit closer to frame for chain line so is this even possible??

ty for all help and sry for being anoying but not too much into all this thing and its very costly here to play with it


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## ChILd_ReBoRn (Jul 30, 2015)

I'm not sure what are you trying to gain with this gears that you are mentioning. Fast bike, but with enough ratio to climb? 44T front, and 9 in the back... Trying to overtake a road bike? You need some stamina to pedal 44/9 for more than a few miles on a normal cadence. You can remove the smallest chainring. You can still climb some steep hills with 30/42 combination. Long cage derailleur can accommodate 47T.


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## Godlys (Apr 1, 2017)

thank you thats all info i need much appreciated
you kinda hit my plan perfectly 

to clarify removing small chainring do i just remove it and keep all as it is or need put spacers somewhere for better chain line?? as final thing i still confused


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## tangerineowl (Nov 18, 2013)

Trying to confirm if I can run a 10speed XO short-cage Type2 with clutch, with an xg1080 11-36 and a single ring 38t up front on my no suspension bike ?


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## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

Should with prior chain length.


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## ReturnOfTheMTB (Nov 4, 2014)

THOE said:


> I have experimented with all the different combo's with Sram. FYI use can only use a X9 medium type 2 with the clutch on a 34t it will not work on a 36t in the rear, but you can use a standard medium cage on a 36t cassette it will work. I run 1X10 on two of my bikes and XX1 set up on the other. I also us the XX1 crank with 10 speed chain and cassette with a 9 speed power link.


Why would the x9 type 2 with clutch not work with with a 11-36 xg 1099 cassette?


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## Eboogie666 (Aug 7, 2017)

I have a question about what type of pull I need for my front derailleur I am building a 2012 Santa Cruz superlight I am putting an xtr drive train but in doing so I bought a side swing top clamp fd not knowing I needed a side swing low clamp okay but now I need to know if it's a top pull , front pull or a bottom pull can anyone help me ????


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## ThrottleAbuse (Jul 2, 2010)

Just got a Scott Genius 150mm travel bike with XT 8000 on it. It currently has a 2x setup with the 11-40 cassette and the SGS long cage rear derailleur. I want to swap it out to 1x and a 11-46 cassette. It seems from reading here the ideal setup is the GS medium length derailleur. Will the SGS long cage work or does it need to be swapped out for sure?


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

this can be a frustrating topic. for example, you look at a certain 10 speed rear derailleur, it can say long cage, but then it says max cog is 36t. they make 10 speed granny gears with 42, or even 46 teeth now. so is this rear derailleur not a long cage anymore? maybe total wrap capacity is a lot more important to look at? maybe when they made 3x10 speeds it really was a long cage but it appears that the definition is now based on how many front chainrings the bike has. if its 1x and 10-46t even some short cage derailleurs may work fine. so maybe the general rule is: get the widest cassette range possible, then 1x is short or med cage, 2x is med or long cage, and 3x is long cage? 

currently I'm having a minor issue with 3x8 and the cassette being a Sunrace 11-40t cassette. love the wide gear ratios but the med cage altus derailleur cannot shift into 40t. bought a derailleur extender but it didn't fit the frame right. so I asked on Amazon what's the correct or most popular extender. one answer was surprising. they said you can put on a 9-speed derailleur long cage and it will be fine as long as the shifters match the cassette cog count. looking at the length of various 9-speed derailleurs, it became obvious they were all longer than the 8-speed ones except maybe the Alivio. so maybe problem fixed for $20-40, we'll see. whether or not this can apply to 9/10 speeds or 10/11 speeds for compatibility I'm not sure, my guess is yes for 9/10 and no for 10/11.


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## floridablanca (Oct 12, 2016)

Aglo said:


> The GS cage is the right cage for 1x, the SGS cage is for 2x and 3x.
> The size of the cage has nothing to do with the biggest sprocket it can clear.
> And the M8000 can clear sprockets up to 46 teeth. You have to put a chain in there and adjust the B-screw.


So, what would be the better choice for a 1, 11-36 drivetrain, GS?

RD-M6000 derailleur's box state that GS is for 11-42 cassettes and SGS for 11-36 though 11-32 cassettes. This confuses me, as everybody seems to have pretty clear that GS is medium cage and SGS is long cage, but also everybody seems to be clear that long is for wider range and medium for narrower range. Isn't 11-42 wider than 11-36?









I know I'm most probably missing something about chainset tooth difference, but I got into mountain biking in a 1x era, so please someone enlighten me.

For practical means I have a bike with a 38t single chainring and an 11-36 cassette. Am I fine with the GS "for 11-42" (according to shimano) or should I get the SGS "for 11-36"? Which one would be the "ideal"?

What I understand from quoted post is that GS should be the right choice. Is that correct?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

floridablanca said:


> So, what would be the better choice for a 1, 11-36 drivetrain, GS?
> 
> RD-M6000 derailleur's box state that GS is for 11-42 cassettes and SGS for 11-36 though 11-32 cassettes. This confuses me, as everybody seems to have pretty clear that GS is medium cage and SGS is long cage, but also everybody seems to be clear that long is for wider range and medium for narrower range. Isn't 11-42 wider than 11-36?
> 
> ...


You need to go back to post number 2 and do the math.

https://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-...erailleur-284688-post2911477.html#post2911477

On the side or back of the package (or on Shimano's website) you will see some specs, specifically those stating max capacity, max front difference, and the cassette specs. You can't really fudge the max capacity numbers much without modifying the derailleur (aftermarket kits are available to do this). Cassette specs are more flexible.

In your usage scenario, you can probably go either way, honestly. The SGS lets you have a bigger gap between front cogs than the GS cage, so if you wanted to run 2x, that would be a critical spec to pay attention to.


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## tjc4golf (Mar 5, 2010)

Running a 1x10 with an 11-42 cassette. Need a new SRAM derailleur.

Math says I need (0-0) + (42-11) = 31T capacity.

Trying to figure out if I can get away with a SRAM GX 10 speed short cage derailleur.

Reason it might work:
(1) Someone claimed to get 33T capacity out of a SRAM short cage (link to post)

Reasons it might not work:
(1) 2nd post in this thread says SRAM's stated short capacity = 30T 
(2) Comments I've seen that say max cog size is irrelevant were written before 42t cassettes emerged

Can anyone who has experience running at 1x with an 11-42 cassette on a SRAM short cage chime in?


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## K4izen (Feb 2, 2021)

Forgive me, so what is the TLDR for this particular topic? I have a broken M8100 long cage I believe and since warranty is a bit out in the air (I’m in Australia and had a bike assembled and delivered from Germany) for it. While Shimano and SRAM recently released new products I noticed most derailleurs have come down in price and decided to grab an M9100 XTR to take advantage of this opportunity. I suppose since I have 12x M8100 on a long travel suspension frame it’s probably best to stick to a long cage derailleur.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

K4izen said:


> Forgive me, so what is the TLDR for this particular topic? I have a broken M8100 long cage I believe and since warranty is a bit out in the air (I'm in Australia and had a bike assembled and delivered from Germany) for it. While Shimano and SRAM recently released new products I noticed most derailleurs have come down in price and decided to grab an M9100 XTR to take advantage of this opportunity. I suppose since I have 12x M8100 on a long travel suspension frame it's probably best to stick to a long cage derailleur.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The medium cage (GS) on the 12speed XTR model is supposed to be used only with a 10-45 cassette on a 1x setup, as the max sprocket size is 45t and total capacity is 35t.
If you have a 10-51 cassette and/or a 2x setup you will need a model with a long cage (SGS).


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## K4izen (Feb 2, 2021)

Aglo said:


> The medium cage (GS) on the 12speed XTR model is supposed to be used only with a 10-45 cassette on a 1x setup, as the max sprocket size is 45t and total capacity is 35t.
> If you have a 10-51 cassette and/or a 2x setup you will need a model with a long cage (SGS).


Thanks, I have a 10-51 and my current M8100 is SGS. Thanks Aglo.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## slipperyb (Sep 27, 2009)

Can a GX 10sp long cage (intended for 2x10) handle a 46T cassette in a 1x setup?


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

This is what can be so strange about some Shimano terminology: Deore 5100 11-speed has a greater max cog capability than SLX 7000 or XT 8000. Because the "x100" series came out recently with 10-51 12-sp or 11-51 11-sp; older SLX and XT "x000" are 11-46 sp. I completely forgot about the new 11 speed groupset because everyone was so focused on 12-speed 10-51t. I and I'm sure many others assume SLX and XT SGS would have greater range than a Deore 5xxx series. Wrong! I found out today (and remembered after looking it up) when the bike shop put on the XT 8000 rear derailleur during the build and told me there is one that can handle 11-52t, which is my cassette size. The M5100 is only $56 on Amazon, about 1/2 the price as XT, greater range. I'll try it later when the XT wears out, usually happens to me about 1000-1500 miles.


*SHIMANO Deore RD-M5100-SGS Rear Derailleur - 11-Speed, Long Cage*


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## Ezra E (Jul 24, 2021)

I screwed up, and bought a shimano xt 8120 sgs derailleur, which is ratted for a 10-45 tooth 2x drive train.

I have a 10-51 tooth 1x drive train.
I’m assuming this derailleur won’t work on a 51t cassette?
singletracks magazine said it will work on a 10-45t 1x cassette.

unfortunately can’t return it, as I bought it last fall, kicking myself now 😟


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## mtbfree (Aug 20, 2015)

Ezra E said:


> I screwed up, and bought a shimano xt 8120 sgs derailleur, which is ratted for a 10-45 tooth 2x drive train.
> 
> I have a 10-51 tooth 1x drive train.
> I’m assuming this derailleur won’t work on a 51t cassette?
> ...


It won't work, it has shorter cage that long version. You can change cassete to 10-45 and gain some strength with along the way


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

richj8990 said:


> I'll try it later when the XT wears out, usually happens to me about 1000-1500 miles.


Wait: you wear derialleurs out? How? 1500 miles is only like half a chain for me.


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## Flegmpst (5 mo ago)

Not sure how to word a title for a new thread so I figure I'll ask in here...

Wanting to do a "factory" 1x8 setup on my base model Rockhopper and not sure what rear derailleur to use. I already have the 30t 1x stout crank from the Comp and Elite models but I know I need a clutch der for chain tension too. 

Going off the equation on the first page (with a single chainring being 0? 11-34t cassette) I got a needed capacity of 23t. So Short cage right? 

next part of the question is will the stock Microshift mezzo 8speed shifter work with either of the Microshift clutch 8speed derailleurs? Product page for shifter says works with alot of different ders, yet the derailleur product pages say they only work with the corresponding shifter.

Is this true? Hope not. Seems like it should work as I've seen/heard of a bunch of different derailleur/shifter combos, some being completely different brands.


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