# Building a teardrop trailer



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Wasn't sure where else this might fit, but since it applies to bike trips, it seems it fits best here.

So for car camping type bike trips, the wife and I have been getting increasingly unhappy with our gear. I think a lot of it is that we're getting older and it's more difficult for us to get comfortable in a car camping situation.

Either way, we've been tossing around the idea of a teardrop trailer. In the RV universe, they're not super popular, because pretty much, all you can do inside is sit or sleep. The commercially available ones have more options than I really care to have. And they cost a ton more than I want to spend on such a thing.

I have a friend who went the DIY route, and I've been looking at what that would involve for awhile now. He went for minimizing cost, so his is made of not-so-fancy basic plywood and inexpensive hardware. I don't think my wife would be quite happy with that, but I tracked down a kit that looks nice.

The Teardroppers - The Teardroppers is an all in one resource for Teardrop Trailer kit, accessories, plans, and more - The Teardroppers

As for options, it can be as simple or complex as I want (I will probably add a marine battery, electrical hookup, some lighting, maybe a radio, and possibly even a basic sink setup). I kinda like shelves instead of cabinets like the commercial ones (namely, Little Guy) have.

Anyone have a teardrop, or even done a DIY project like this? Biggest expense looks to be the utility trailer. I'm going to try to get my hands on one with a torsion axle for better suspension, I think.

To address the bike situation, I have two ideas in mind. One, would be to get a trailer that would be long enough for me to have a cargo platform in front of the enclosed trailer, where I could put the bikes. The other idea I had was to do like what my friend does. He got a utility trailer with a long tongue, and he uses one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Receiver-Adapter-Extender-Extension/dp/B000P6CJ9O

I have a Kuat NV and this would probably be the cheapest/easiest method to use what I have.


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## jcaino (May 26, 2007)

Here's a forum that might help:

Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers ? Index page

A lot of people do builds based off Harbor Freight trailers, you can weld them up rather than bolt together, etc. There are better options, but not really cheaper.

You could always build a bumper with a receiver hitch and put the Kuat on there....you may need to play with weight distribution in that case. Building a front cargo area to hold your cooler and other gear is a good way to deal with that.


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## Iowagriz (Jan 14, 2008)

I've always wondered if it would be possible to make the door big enough to put the bikes inside. Or, the drop part (usually the kitchen) big enough to fit bikes with a fork mount. Seems like there should be a better way to get bikes out of the elements.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

Looked at these a few years ago. Decided if I was going to go to the trouble of towing something, I'd like to be able to stand up in it. Maybe consider a small Travel Trailer like a 13' Scamp or something? There are kits for building "standies," too if you want to go that route.


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## Mojave G (Jan 30, 2015)

What kind of vehicle are you towing with? Have you thought about a pop-up tent trailer? I bought an old '91 Coleman and tow it with my Jeep Wrangler, paid $1500 7-8 years ago. you can put a bike rack on top and call it spaghetti! (I have a kayak on top of mine) The Mrs will love it too, most have 2 beds table & chairs, sink w/water tank, heater, stove... Lots of older ones out there in good shape and cheap. Not knocking building a teardrop, but for a little bigger trailer and a whole lot less work, just an idea.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

The work thing isn't the issue. I love DIY projects like this. The cost, only so-so.

I am not thrilled with the idea of the typical popup. All that canvas - meh. More difficult to keep warm when it's cool. More opportunities for leaks. Wife wants something that's dry and fairly warm, primarily. Our old cabin tent has become leaky, so we've been having discussions about how to address that. Do we buy a new, nicer cabin tent, or do we save a bit so we can buy one of these?

Primary tow vehicle will be a Subaru XV Crosstrek. 1500lb tow rating. 200lb tongue weight. I don't want to hang the rack off the rear of the trailer. Primarily because I've read some horror stories of similar sorts of situations, and because I don't want to pull the rack off to use the galley. There's also the potential that I could pull it with my Honda Fit. Warranty's almost up, and it's been paid for for a few years now, so there shouldn't be any issues pulling something small like that with it.

I've looked at some of the cheap Harbor Freight and similar bolt-up kit trailers, and I'm not too thrilled with them. Tongues aren't long enough, and I'd like torsion axles for the improved suspension/handling characteristics. I'm going to go visit some of the brick n mortar trailer sales businesses and wee what they've got. If I can't get a longer tongue, I may get a longer trailer and use the forward few feet as a cargo area or something. I haven't learned to weld just yet, so that would also be a better way for me to get a trailer I want that's welded, rather than bolted together. I've tried searching up used trailers and haven't had very good luck at this point. Definitely not opposed to using an older used trailer if I find one with the right dimensions.

I'm also not totally opposed to buying something older and used if it fits within my budget, and is light enough for the Subie. But from what I've noticed looking around, the used market is a tough nut to crack for smaller stuff.


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

I've actually wanted to do a cargo conversion for some time, just a matter of whack-a-mole with everything else we've got going.

This was by far the best design I'd seen.... sub the ATV for a bunch of dirt-drooling outdoor gear and you're all set! 
Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers ? View topic - Glenlivets 6X10 cargo toy hauler conversion


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Bikepacking?



Harold said:


> Do we buy a new, nicer cabin tent, or do we save a bit so we can buy one of these?


The voice of reason speaks!

If you're going to save a bit, just buy a van and call it a day. No bike storage issues, no set up/break camp issues, no leakage/maintenance/repair issues, and _no towing._ If you're one of those who has to have an involved project going, carry on. If you want to tool up efficiently and economically while you plan your next move, the choice seems obvious: get a tent.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I am thinking a little more about popups, mostly because of the space and the fact that it'll be ready to go with less work, most likely (unless I get a real fixer-upper for cheap).

Trust me, I'd LOVE to get something like a Sprinter conversion van or something like that, but that's not a this-year budget item. If we start saving for something like that, it's going to be years before we can get it. I have looked up to see what the low end of the used market looks like. There are some old Class C RV's on the market that "technically" fit the budget. Stuff from the 80's and 90's. I'm not exactly opposed to something like this, but in addition to the RV-specific stuff, there's a concern regarding the engine and the rest of the drive system and all. Also not sure the wife would be up for figuring out how to store one. We were discussing the trailer storage situation, and she's comfortable with our options. A Class C RV is much bigger, and the old ones in our price range don't exactly look awesome on the outside.

With the budget we have to work with, I think we can handle up to maybe $3k-4k, give or take. We're willing to take out a small loan, but would want at least a 50% deposit on something like that.

We have plenty of tents, as well as hammocks. Our big cabin tent has just developed a leak. We found it on a fall camping trip last year, and dealt with it temporarily by heading into town and buying a big tarp to throw over the roof. The tent was a freebie I got years ago, and has served us well. Getting something new/nicer is going to cost, and we'd kinda rather save up for something with hard sides to stay warmer and a more comfortable bed. The small backpacking tents and hammocks are still perfect for the backpacking/bikepacking sorts of stuff. It's not a dire need right now. We can make it work. But we do want a little more comfort for car camping.

I really like the A-Liner hard sided popups, but I'm not finding any within the budget.

The converted cargo trailer is really cool. I see problems pulling one with the Subie, though.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Right on, Nate, the usual weighing of compromises. It'll work itself out to great satisfaction, I'm sure. You could find a good used pop-up for a song, I bet.

I dig that a van is not in the budget, but fwiw a person could save a ton of $ by building out a cargo van to suit. We were dreaming of a class C van, but eight years later, our cargo van is still not built out and never will be. It's too useful as a work truck to build a bunch of stuff in there.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

She&I said:


> Bikepacking?
> 
> The voice of reason speaks!
> 
> If you're going to save a bit, just buy a van and call it a day. No bike storage issues, no set up/break camp issues, no leakage/maintenance/repair issues, and _no towing._ If you're one of those who has to have an involved project going, carry on. If you want to tool up efficiently and economically while you plan your next move, the choice seems obvious: get a tent.


The problem with a van is that it's another vehicle to store, register, smog, insure and maintain. That adds up to a reoccurring amount of money. With a trailer, you pay a one time registration fee of like $30 (IIRC... in California) and I'm not even sure you have to insure it if it's under a certain weight. I dunno... I never insured mine. Maybe I should check if I'm okay.

I thought of buying an ugly, high mileage but mechanically sound Toyota Previa off craigslist for $1200 for just camping. Rig it up with cots inside, storage, maybe a sink, awning, DC power.... like a poor man's Westfalia.  I figure I would only put 500 miles a year on the thing tops. so high mileage is fine as long as it's sound.

Yeah, a trailer still takes up room, but less room than a van... (but not by much).

I actually bought one of those Harbor Freight 4x4' 1000 pound load trailers, and they're pretty decent. But, watch out for the build and hardware on those things. They put some chinsy cheezy things in there. I couldn't get my lights to work until I ran my own ground wire and bonded it to the chassis well. If you're at all handy, you'll see where the weak spots are. I would also suggest using red loctite on all of the nuts and bolts.


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## bonner1040 (Apr 5, 2015)

Why not something like this: 6'x10' Enclosed Stealth Titan SE Trailer

They are generally totally blank on the inside and offer plenty of room with which to customize. I bought one for the business and it was like $1500.

You ever want to borrow it let me know Nate.


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## bradoemba (Jun 18, 2004)

I was Jones-ing for a pop-up tent camper for many years and finally got one two seasons ago. Just getting too old to tent camp on bike trips! If I want to rough it, I'll go backpacking. It's just fantastic. Mine is set up with the beds arranged so you can sleep 4 adults, each on there own bed, and even double up and add two more easily. I keep it packed and ready to go from about now until October. (We had a killer warm January weekend and me and my kids decided to go camping. We were on the road in less than an hour, including a stop for food.) 

I use it as much with the family as I do with my bike buddies and built a rack that holds 5-6 bikes if I am not using the pick-up to tow.

I paid $3200 for 10 year-old Jayco with heat and hot water. Original sales receipt I got with it was over $10k. Yikes!

Way better than spending $3200 on the cruise my wife wanted! (And in hind-sight, she agrees. Phew!)


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

bonner1040 said:


> Why not something like this: 6'x10' Enclosed Stealth Titan SE Trailer
> 
> They are generally totally blank on the inside and offer plenty of room with which to customize. I bought one for the business and it was like $1500.
> 
> You ever want to borrow it let me know Nate.


1500# too heavy for his tow vehicle.

I to though about building out a cargo trailer into a camper, but the weight issue took over not doing it. It just became too heavy on paper.


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## bonner1040 (Apr 5, 2015)

This reeks of potential IMO

2009 Zee Chariot Atv/Utv Trailer


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## bonner1040 (Apr 5, 2015)

the-one1 said:


> 1500# too heavy for his tow vehicle.
> 
> I to though about building out a cargo trailer into a camper, but the weight issue took over not doing it. It just became too heavy on paper.


Im not the most mechanical. Wasn't the 200lb reference to tongue weight? I can easily pick up and move my trailer that size... Maybe I just dont understand it well enough.

I always wanted to build one out into a super lightweight camper. Basically an empty room. But I have a pickup truck so maybe im not considering towing with an outback.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

yes, 200lb tongue weight. 1500lb total. The total is the kicker. I need something LIGHT if I'm gonna tow it. I don't have something as big as an Outback. Think smaller. XV Crosstrek.

Looks like repairing/replacing the fabric on a popup can be super spendy (I was looking into it) and specific to the individual trailer. This is my big hangup on the soft popups.

Nice thing about a teardrop is that with the hard sides and top, it's much less likely to leak (and from what I read, they're practically airtight if built correctly). Exterior can be refinished fairly easily if needed. Especially if I leave the sides as wood and do an epoxy coating to seal it all up. Just sand it down and give it a different coat of paint or whatever.

I'm not a huge fan of buying stuff at Harbor Freight, as their stuff tends to be a bit on the cheap side...but it would help keep the budget for the build in order and allow for cost overruns if necessary. It's also cheap enough to modify as I need.


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## jcaino (May 26, 2007)

You could always look for a trashed pop-up to use for the frame/axle.

If you have welding and fab skills, you can get a rear solid axle from an older FWD car (no independent rear suspension) that is coil-sprung, weld up a frame from your choice of tubing, and you're in business.

There's a reason why I mentioned Harbor Freight earlier, as I've looked into building a teardrop a while ago and frankly, they're just one of the cheapest options. When you're looking at paying less for a new trailer from HF vs. more for a used trailer...well, it doesn't look so bad then, does it?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I don't really have any fabrication skillz. I want to develop some, but don't have any now.

Simple is good. Inexpensive CAN be good, but it isn't always. I will continue exploring my options.


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## Mojave G (Jan 30, 2015)

Aliners had a super light trailer called the Alite that looked like alot of fun. Cheap and light probably hard to find a used one now though.. If you are worried about leakage in a popup don't! If the canvas is good there's no worries. Here's a vid of my Coleman in a big downpour, didn't even zip up the windows!  skip the first 30 sec of kayak fishing


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I am not concerned about the canvas on a popup when it's in good shape. My concern with the canvas is when it's NOT. Repairs would involve patching, which isn't really a permanent fix, or replacing the entire canvas, a rather expensive operation.

I like teardrops. I sorta always have, ever since I learned about them first, years ago.

I stumbled across this builder while browsing through the tnttt site:
TC Teardrop Camping Trailers

I like these a lot. Looking at a 5x8. The trailers themselves are way better than what I'd wind up with using a HF trailer. Plus the finishing touches are quite likely a bit more refined than what I'd be able to do. Lots of options in the end, but I think I'd be pretty happy with a trailer that had very few of them. Biggest things I think I'd want are the toolbox, spare tire, and shore power. Maybe a table and a Yeti cooler, though I wonder if I'd be able to track down one for cheaper. I think eventually I'd want to add a solar panel, but that could wait.

Looks like they can be also ordered with a hitch receiver on the back, and I'm wondering about that option for bikes instead of putting the bikes between the vehicle and the trailer using the dual receiver deal. IIRC, Kuat does not recommend putting their rack on the back of an RV. It's also tempting to get the Yakima rack so I could put a gear basket on the roof of the trailer. Ahhhh, the options (and the cost overruns)!

Hmmmm...may have to leave the Kuat rack at home when using the teardrop. Cheapest way looks to be mounting fork mounts onto the cargo box lid. Probably the most flexible option would be to get regular 9mm QR mounts, and use Hurricane adapters to swap between axle types. I've been hauling bikes around lately in my Honda with 3 different front axle types, so that's something to consider. Probably need to bring along a separate workstand for bigger trips, since I wouldn't have the workstand on the NV.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

We go back and forth on building a teardrop. I'm pro building a teardrop; DH is more for an expedition trailer for gear, and sleep in the van.

This design doesn't have the traditional teardrop profile, but certainly in the spirit. The flat back looks so much easier a building option than the curved hatch; for the kitchen, my design solution would be to have a large size RV luggage hatch door to access a galley kitchen with a counter and shelves. This design has a drop down hatch cover, but it also could just swing down part way and be a counter.

View attachment 980207


We rented a Little Guy 5-wide a few years ago to go to a mtn bike race and enjoyed it, but it definitely adversely affected gas mileage by about 4 or 5 mpg.

After renting the Little Guy, I know if we go this route (building a teardrop), it has to be 5-feet wide, with a door on each side.

The Hall of Fame on the Teardrops and Tiny Travel Trailers forum has pictures of every kind of teardrop and tear drop variant imaginable. Check it out here.
People have even made teardrops out of foam board covered with painted canvas (foamies).


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## Dream Plus (Feb 12, 2004)

My wife bought a Little Guy 5 wide. We're small so no problem. We go camping a lot more often now, and I almost talked her into winter camping. Our little guy has a battery(12V) and plug in electric where available. The battery only powers lights. We towed it with a 1999 CRV with roofracks for bikes up until last week when we got hit by a car running a light. We now have a 2011 CRV and no racks for bikes yet. I like the dual hitch idea. I hadn't thought of that. Our trailer has a hitch mount on the back, but I like to see the bikes.

I had to remove the roof rack off the old car and carried the bikes home inside the trailer. I could fit 2 MTBs no problem, (small Trek 930 and a Scott 29 Spark)

While camping last week we saw a couple who got a "murdered out" Little guy 4 wide from Gander Mountain. Gander had applied all black vinyl to the sides. They also sold camo covered Little Guys. The couple paid a ridiculously low price.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I am leaning more strongly towards the TC Teardrop with the platform on the trailer, and a roof rack with a gear basket or cargo box on top so I can carry supplies without needing to put them inside the sleeping space in the trailer.

Kuat doesn't want you using their racks with any kinds of extensions, either, which the dual hitch accessory is, at its simplest. I think it would simplify things a lot to put the bikes on the cargo platform in front of the cabin. Maybe mount a couple 1up USA roof trays onto that platform.

I contacted TC Teardrop with a few questions, and they definitely meet my needs. Only difficulty is what essentially amounts to a 6 month build time, since they're custom built. If I placed my order NOW, it MIGHT be done in time for a weekend camping event I've got planned in early October. And then there's the uncertainty of actually getting it to Indiana from WI within the timeframe.

I'm thinking right now that given the timing, I'll wait to place my order until the fall, so it can be built over the winter and I can have it ready to go for the 2016 season. That means that I'll probably need to hit my old tent with some extra waterproofing and seam sealing so I can get it through this year.


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## kai_ski (Apr 24, 2013)

Harold said:


> I don't want to hang the rack off the rear of the trailer. Primarily because I've read some horror stories of similar sorts of situations, and because I don't want to pull the rack off to use the galley.





Harold said:


> Kuat doesn't want you using their racks with any kinds of extensions, either, which the dual hitch accessory is, at its simplest. I think it would simplify things a lot to put the bikes on the cargo platform in front of the cabin. Maybe mount a couple 1up USA roof trays onto that platform.


I had a small utility trailer I used to move around a few times. I had a 1 1/4" receiver welded to the trailer tongue just behind the ball so my T2 would fold down towards the trailer box. It was perfect for me, but did add to the tongue weight a bit. I've been thinking seriously about doing a teardrop, and I would definitely work enough space into the design to fit the rack on the tongue again. It's particularly nice when you set up camp you can just remove your tow bar and move the bike rack to the car for driving to trailheads, etc.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

kai_ski said:


> I had a small utility trailer I used to move around a few times. I had a 1 1/4" receiver welded to the trailer tongue just behind the ball so my T2 would fold down towards the trailer box. It was perfect for me, but did add to the tongue weight a bit. I've been thinking seriously about doing a teardrop, and I would definitely work enough space into the design to fit the rack on the tongue again. It's particularly nice when you set up camp you can just remove your tow bar and move the bike rack to the car for driving to trailheads, etc.


That's an interesting idea. Would certainly address the concern of trips where camping would be done at some location maybe several miles from the trailhead, so leaving the trailer at the campsite and hauling the bikes on the car to the trailhead would be necessary. The platform on the trailer would address the space necessary to do something like this...but it could be an issue with regards to placement of the trailer's spare tire. That said, it's something I could have the teardrop manufacturer potentially do during manufacture that would keep things looking clean and professional. I'd be curious how much space the rack would occupy on the trailer, and how much would be left on the cargo platform.

This is a TC Teardrop. I believe the sides on the cargo platform are not necessary, and it can be had with a naked platform that would give room for the bike rack.


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## Whacked (Sep 29, 2008)

I know these are over your budget and weight limit but I think they are badass

Tumbleweed Tiny House Company


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## bigflamingtaco (Oct 26, 2013)

Some of the preceding suggestions are scary considering you are working with a class I receiver. 

Producers of receiver mounted bike racks don't want you using an extension because receiver's weren't designed for usupported weight. Bike racks can place a lot of stress on receivers. Extending the rack multiplies that stress.

I used 1up's blueprints to calculate that a rack with 4 XC bikes will apply about double the 350Lb my class II receiver was rated to handle.

They don't make double receiver adapters for Class I or II, so you'd have to use a Class I/II to Class III/IV adapter, extending the rack out ever further.

I'd aim for mounting the bikes elsewhere, or replacing the receiver.


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## kai_ski (Apr 24, 2013)

Harold said:


> That's an interesting idea. Would certainly address the concern of trips where camping would be done at some location maybe several miles from the trailhead, so leaving the trailer at the campsite and hauling the bikes on the car to the trailhead would be necessary. The platform on the trailer would address the space necessary to do something like this...but it could be an issue with regards to placement of the trailer's spare tire. This is a TC Teardrop. I believe the sides on the cargo platform are not necessary, and it can be had with a naked platform that would give room for the bike rack.


That's a nice little teardrop.

I think you could easily mount the spare tire on the back, would add some ballast for the bike rack up front. Ballast is the key for mounting the bikes on the trailer tongue.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Can't mount the spare onto the rear. That is the galley hatch. Wouldn't stay open like it should.

Class II can accept adapters and extensions. Class I cannot. Trust me, been there. Yes, it does "reduce" the vehicle's tongue weight capacity. I don't know the formula, but I do know that it's significant.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*Car Camping*

Sorry Nate, I'm not trying to hijack your thread, just a few car camping pix to inspire what you have to look forward to when you get finished with your teardrop.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Dredging this one back up from the (almost) dead.

The teardrop went to the back burner a bit, but has come to the front again. Found a teardrop company that builds 'em right here in town.

Hiker Trailer -

I went and spoke to the builder for a few hours recently, and he'll do lots of custom touches that aren't advertised on the website. In particular, we talked about putting a receiver on the trailer tongue so I can plug my Kuat into it, so we can use it for shuttles and excursions outside the campground. That is a custom mod he has already done for another customer, so he's comfortable with it.

There was a 5x10 available for rent, too. So the wife and I have decided to rent it for our Brown County Epic weekend next month. We're going to use that as an opportunity to decide on options.

Buildout time for the Hiker Trailers tends to be around 3mo or so, but I found out that TC Teardrops are over a year. That, combined with the local component of the Hiker Trailers, really pushes hiker trailers up the list.

This summer, I got my certifications to coach mtb skills, so I think the teardrop could be pretty useful for that for lining up skills clinics out of state, too.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

A used Burro seems like it could fit your needs, well under 1400 lbs. in a 12 footer.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Harold said:


> Dredging this one back up from the (almost) dead.


The convenience of working with someone local has its benefits.

What are you thinking about getting and the setup?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Wife likes the extra space of the 10 footer so I think that is on the list. Hitch receiver on the tongue for a bike rack. Full electrical capability so we can have a bit of temp control capabilities and multiple recharge options. Also want the ability to add solar panels down the line. Roof rack so we can add accessories like awnings, screen rooms, and whatnot. Maybe even one of those pressurized showers. Electric brakes for the trailer itself. I think I can even pull it behind my Fit if I do that. I want a receiver on the back of the trailer so I have options. I do not think I will get a cargo platform on the tongue because that is where the bikes will go (I will probably get a locking box for the batteries and other electrical components). But a cargo platform in the rear receiver might be useful if I need to balance out the load to reduce tongue weight.

The rest are options we can figure out as we go and add as necessary.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Thoughtful planning is as much fun as taking delivery and taking a road trip.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

tiretracks said:


> A used Burro seems like it could fit your needs, well under 1400 lbs. in a 12 footer.


I've considered other similar types. The ability to stand up inside is nice, but I want to keep the weight down. The teardrops I'm looking at are generally a good bit under 1,000lbs. My Honda Fit has no tow rating, technically speaking. I can get a class I hitch for it, though. And since my Fit is out of warranty and paid off, that's not much of a concern to me. So I want to keep both the trailer and the tongue weight down as much as possible. Also why I'll be getting brakes installed on the teardrop.

When it comes down to it, the real reason the wife and I want something like this is for sleeping comfort, anyway. We don't mind the rest of the aspects of tent camping. We still enjoy backpacking, for that matter. Car camping for mtb trips has a unique spot for us, though. We're doing a trip to maximize our biking enjoyment. And as we get a little older, we're less comfortable sleeping with tent camping in campgrounds. Sleeping on the ground tends to make us even more sore. For me, especially in places that don't allow me to hang my hammock (or places where there's simply no place to hang it), where I get the most comfortable sleep. Having a fully sheltered sleeping space with a degree of temperature control will let us get a better night's sleep without needing to pay for expensive hotel rooms (which we've been doing for the past few years, and that expense forces us to keep our bike trips to a minimum). This year, we've severely limited our bike trips because of that reason (we wanted to start building our savings this year). The only ones we have done have been also associated with work trips. One for my wife where we both got to go, and her employer reimbursed her for hotel, flight, and food expenses (all we had to pay out of pocket was to transport the bikes, and for my own plane ticket). The other bike trip was one for me, associated with my skills coaching training. I got to ride some that weekend, but maybe only 5-10mi per day because I was spending most of my time in the course, studying, and working on lesson plans for the next day type stuff. That trip I get to write off on our taxes next year, at least. So none of our trips were pure vacation so far this year, because of hotel expenses.

The one we're doing in October, we're renting the teardrop, and are quite excited about it. We're doing another short one in November for the Iceman Cometh race in Traverse City, MI. We have friends in town we're staying with, so that helps. Once we get the teardrop (hopefully for next year), we have some destinations in mind already. Lots of places in the single overnight range where camping is really the only option.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Harold said:


> One for my wife where we both got to go, and her employer reimbursed her for hotel, flight, and food expenses (all _*we had to pay out of pocket was to transport the bikes*_, and for my own plane ticket).


Not to hijack the thread, but how was the experience of flying with your bikes? Any problems, hassles or damage?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cleared2land said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but how was the experience of flying with your bikes? Any problems, hassles or damage?


Only damage was a couple of slightly tweaked derailleur hangers that we didn't notice until after our first ride. As much my fault for not protecting them adequately as anything else.

No major problems otherwise. We flew Southwest, so cost was $75 per bike per direction. In the end, the cost was a wash between taking the airline and shipping via UPS. For my wife's bike (a carbon Santa Cruz Blur XC), the airline was more expensive than shipping. But my bike was a bargain on Southwest, being a Salsa Bucksaw FS fatbike. My wife's bike fit in a Thule hard case. Mine was in a cardboard bike box and was pretty tough to handle.

The airports were hit-or-miss. Indianapolis Int'l was awesome (there's a reason it's been consistently rated the best airport in the country since it was rebuilt). Curbside dropoff. The curbside attendant took my wife in front of a line of probably 100 people to pay for our extra luggage. Shuttle bus drivers loaded our luggage. Great service. Our destination in Vegas treated us awesome when we arrived. For example, they put us on a shuttle bus to the rental car station all to ourselves because of the oversized luggage. Shuttle bus driver loaded it all for us. Was every bit as good as when we left Indianapolis. But they made it an extra PITA when we left. Shuttle bus driver helped everyone EXCEPT us load their luggage. They tried making me push the luggage cart with two bike boxes and our suitcases through the stupid rope lines. They started to give me hell about my refusal to do so until I demonstrated that it was physically impossible to push that giant cart through without hitting people and the posts. THEN they let me wait outside the rope lines, so my wife could wait IN line, and when it was our turn, they opened a route so I could pass directly through. But then the terrible airport design forced me to push all of that oversized luggage through a massive crowd of people that didn't want to let me through, just so I could get to the oversized luggage dropoff (there's no separate place in Indy - they take it all in the same spot).

In general, I'd fly with bikes again. Just not to Vegas. The riding outside Vegas was great, but the city itself absolutely sucks.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

This may interest you.

Teardrop Camper - Page 2


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

tiretracks said:


> This may interest you.
> 
> Teardrop Camper - Page 2


can't see the pics unless I create an account...not exactly interested in doing so.


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

Chesapeake Light Craft is a highly regarded boat/kayak kit manufacturer that came out with this design: Build-your-own Teardrop Camper Kit and Plans

Stitch and glue construction, like their boat and kayak kits. Great looking rig!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

MikeTowpathTraveler said:


> Chesapeake Light Craft is a highly regarded boat/kayak kit manufacturer that came out with this design: Build-your-own Teardrop Camper Kit and Plans
> 
> Stitch and glue construction, like their boat and kayak kits. Great looking rig!


That is probably the best looking kit I have seen. Big reason I opted not to build though is because of the pretty low quality of most of the base trailers used for the kits. The Hiker Trailer I am renting and may wind up ordering has a high quality welded and powder coated trailer, and custom built for that matter.


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

For sure, the CLC is a beauty and there is something to be said about the amount of work required to build one; stitch and glue construction is all about sanding, sanding and more sanding to achieve the finish that the CLC gang shows on their site. 

I like that Hiker trailer and sounds like you and the Mrs are in for a great, fun time, camping out in the rental you are looking at! I hope you post up your experience with the trailer.

Mike


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

The other discouraging part about building my own is that my garage is not a good one for that kinda thing. I only have a couple electrical outlets, and it's just a cinderblock box. It's next to impossible to control the conditions in there to do any kind of detail work, or much of anything with power tools. In fact, I keep all my tools in my basement, which is finished better.

So wintertime build projects just aren't pleasant in there. And no way I'll do a build project during peak riding season. I would LOVE to have a wood kayak, though.

I'll definitely post up about my experience with the little teardrop. I'll be getting plenty of pictures.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

A little late is better than never. Here are some pics of the trailer we rented (and have submitted a build order for).

























The one we rented was outfitted in a pretty basic manner. Small GoalZero battery to run the light/fan in the cabin, and a couple of power strips inside for the shore power. It worked pretty well for this trip, but it was kinda warm early in the weekend (when we didn't have a power hookup and had to rely exclusively on the battery) and I wasn't sure how long I could run the fan without draining the little battery, so I didn't run it all night.

It was quite comfy inside, though. Probably not gonna work for you if you require a kind sized mattress.

The few extras we felt missing during the trip, we're addressing with our order.

It pulled great behind the Subie. We still managed 28mpg, and that was taking surface roads with all the associated traffic lights in a few areas. The freeway route is under construction and sucks to drive lately, so surface roads it is. I'm thinking my little Honda Fit could even manage it, albeit working a bit harder at it.

We're getting a roof rack with a Fox Wing awning. We also plan to carry the bikes up there, and right now, I'm thinking that the 1up roof carriers will be what we use.

The other big extras include a full power system with a deep cycle battery and a solar panel for keeping the fan running for ventilation even when dry camping.

And lastly, a large tongue storage box. That's basically where stuff that's infrequently needed will go. Battery system. Propane tank. Wheel chocks and leveling jacks. Etc.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

I have one of these HOME - RunawayCampers.com

the navigator has a built in air conditioner which I run off a honda eu2000 generator

The trailer weighs 800lbs and people tow with a prius. There is a facebook group where people sell used ones at a discount.

I use a hitch splitter and carry one bike on a 1up rack.

seems like the new price is significantly higher than when I bought mine. I bought mine used for 2500


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

I have been looking at similar trailers. I like the idea of a hard sided one, but not sure the teardrops are quite big enough. Literally "sleep only". That could work, but still unsure. Anyway, the things that I started to learn towards ( pretty close in price ) are the motorcycle type popup trailers like these:

Leesurelite Trailers

They look a little cheesy...the roof material seems like a heavy tarp? But the weight and size are great - and you end up getting a sleeping area and a little dressing/sitting room out of it. Setup isn't too bad.

smaller for storage too, which is a consideration depending on how big your driveway/garage/lot is.

Anyway love the discussion, even if the tie to "bikepacking" is pretty weak. ( Yes - any solution must be able to put a rack mount on there for bikes! )


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

It's related to camping and riding...car & biker is also an imperfect fit. There is an rv thread in the 50+ forum, too, which is also imperfect.

I put mine here.

I considered popups of various kinds, and have friends with them. Even though they do have more space and tend to be much cheaper, the wife and I are not enamored with fabric sides and masses of bug netting.

The teardrop we're buying is tall enough to sit up in, and there are some foldable mattresses that make that a little more comfy.

That is why we rented one first. We wanted to know how comfy it was first, and whether it was a good platform for us.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Just keep us informed.


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## BlackCanoeDog (Jul 26, 2003)

*Prolite Suite*

My story is similar to Harold's, in that I was looking for a camper that was small enough to allow my wife and I to get into any place that my Crosstrek could take us, and give us the backcountry camping experience that we so loved during a life time of canoe tripping. Something we could have outfitted and ready to go for a quick weekend backcountry boondocking getaway, a vacation trip to the coast, or camping at a mtbiking destination trailhead. 
Also like Harold, I started out looking at teardrop trailers, then small toy haulers, etc etc. Nothing really hit the mark until I saw The Prolite Suite. It is like a reverse teardrop but taller, so I can stand in it with a slouch. Great for getting dressed etc. Another advantage of the taller trailer is having a full awning coming off the side high enough to stand under. And the bed is raised off the floor with ample storage underneath for a lot of gear, porta potty, deep cycle AGM battery, etc. The bed also makes up into a couch and we have a sweet camp kitchen set up, allowing us to cook inside when bugs or weather get nasty!
Because we prefer boondocking or unserviced campsites, I have a 100W portable solar panel which puts out 5 -6 amps in full sun, keeping the battery charged, which in turn runs a portable Indel B truck fridge/freezer with Danfoss compressor that only draws 0.76 amps/hr. We use a small pop-up shelter for the porta potty.
The Suite weighs 550 lb empty. With battery, camping gear, etc it's probably ~700 loaded. It has 11" ground clearance, so it can follow the Crosstrek anywhere! On long road trips I get 25-26 miles/ US gallon on the highway, pulling the trailer and with 2 mtbikes on the car roof.
Here's the best part. As Harold said, teardrops are relatively scarce. The Prolite Suite, even more so. Imagine my surprise when I saw a used one on Kijiji only 100 miles away! It was only 6 months old, had been used 6 times and was JUST like new! I bought it for ~ 2/3 the cost of new. Have had it for 3 years now, and I LOVE this thing. I consider it to have been one of my best purchases, and I even sleep out in it at home many nights of the summer since our back yard is just like a park too  Some pics of the Suite in service...


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I looked at the prolites. I like them, but the scarcity was really hard to deal with south of the border. I was considering driving to Canada to check them out. There are now a few dealers this side of the border, but the prices are not as attractive as I'd like. Especially for the model (s) that interest me most.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Just mailed my deposit today. The build begins. Already looking at little customizations I can do on my own after I get it. Things like curtains for the windows, galley organization, and so on.


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## BlackCanoeDog (Jul 26, 2003)

Harold said:


> I looked at the prolites. I like them, but the scarcity was really hard to deal with south of the border. I was considering driving to Canada to check them out. There are now a few dealers this side of the border, but the prices are not as attractive as I'd like. Especially for the model (s) that interest me most.


The Taxa Tiger Moth is the closest I have seen to the Prolite Suite. Very similar concept ...double bed that makes up into seating area, can make up a meal inside if weather/bugs suck etc, compact, light weight, high ground clearance. And I have the reverse problem to you ...no dealer network for them in Canada.

TigerMoth Camper - Taxa Outdoors


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

That is an interesting trailer. Prob more expensive with the plumbing and that big kitchen slideout. I like that the teardrop I have on order has the same size bed I sleep in every night.

I am probably going to do some customization once I get it, too. Going to add propane first for cooking. I have a couple ideas for water, also. I really like the rotopax products, and may use them for water.

Also a slideout in the galley, particularly for a cooler. But I am also mulling over some ideas for prep space & stove space.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cleared2land said:


> Just keep us informed.


I picked up my Hiker yesterday and started getting it ready for Sedona. First thing I did when I got it home was to put the 1up bike trays on the rack (even before stuffing the mattress inside - I waited until today for that).


20170224_145414 by Nate, on Flickr

The blur by the tongue is Wes, the builder, putting the VIN sticker on the tongue, using a piece of cardboard to keep dry because it started raining unexpectedly.

Trailer and tow vehicle. I have a better drop ball mount now to address the bad angle of the trailer while being towed.


20170224_152509 by Nate, on Flickr

Roof rack!


20170224_182144 by Nate, on Flickr

Got it insured this morning, and stopped by the BMV to get plates. Starting to load it up for Sedona now. I'll be stopping by Harbor Freight in a bit to grab a trailer dolly so I can move it around in my driveway. I live in a really bad spot to be trying to back it into my driveway off of the busy street, so I just pull straight in then unhitch it and push it around where I need to. The rental tongue weight was trivial to do that, but the tongue box on this one makes that hurt a bit.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

Looks like the perfect bike adventure pod! What's the weight unloaded?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

What's on the back-side?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

June Bug said:


> Looks like the perfect bike adventure pod! What's the weight unloaded?


960lbs according to the title



Cleared2land said:


> What's on the back-side?


Galley/storage. My plan is to build a slide-out tray for a cooler on the bottom shelf (basically the floor of the camper). My current cooler is the wrong dimensions for the trailer. It's too tall, so I have to put it in the car. Will probably wind up getting an RTIC 45qt cooler.


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## HotHead (Feb 24, 2015)

Thanks for the pics! I've been wondering if this was still in the works. Enjoy!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Me be thinkin' that me be likin' some completion photos as you prep for Sedona.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Loaded and ready to roll










The blue whale in Catoosa, OK


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^Still no interior photos?


We don't need to stinkin' designated campsites.


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## carthief (Aug 11, 2014)

Harold I just stumbled on this thread, and your little rig looks amazing. I'll go back and read the whole thing when I have a bigger screen than my phone. Just going from past experience with you I know you researched to the end of the world before commissioning this trailer. I'm in a same but different predicament, looking at rooftop tents because my new wagon has a zero towing capacity. I'm in the depths of research trying to find the right one for my car. 
Anyway, congratulations man, that looks like a great rig


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*This Setup Has Caught My Eye...*


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^Still no interior photos?
> 
> We don't need to stinkin' designated campsites.


Been in transit. Long days of driving followed by crashing in the trailer. I will get some for you (and others who have asked for them elsewhere).


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Did you make it to Sedona? How many miles and hours to get where you are now?


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## gooseberry1 (Mar 16, 2016)

We use the van.









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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cleared2land said:


> Did you make it to Sedona? How many miles and hours to get where you are now?


We are here. I didn't count any of that, to be honest. We made a lot of touristy stops along the way.

All I kept track of was nights on the road, and we had 2.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Nice work man! Seeing this thread has me looking at doing this as well. Not near as nice but it's going to be cheaper than buying a used pop up camper and less headaches.

I have most of the tools (no welder) but also have a shop I have full access to. But that only matters if I want to build the trailer myself vs buy one.

Just having trouble deciding how to do the "skin". Kind of want to do one where I can use carbon fiber vinyl wrap over the outside just to make people ask questions (like wtf is wrong with you, lol).

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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

@Cleared2land as you requested, a couple interior pics. I can get galley pics tomorrow.

This is the head end. Light switches and cubbies above the pillows.










Foot end. 2ft deep shelf that we use for clothes, more cubbies. Lower cubbies pass through to lower galley storage. Middle right has another galley pass through door. Upper cubbies do not pass through.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Love the bicycle pillow cases!!!

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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ Can you validate that those are NOT E-bikes?


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Well after careful analysis based on the evidence I cannot validate purely by that picture alone. Though there are not batteries present doesn't mean that some form of "stealth system" isn't being utilized.

So I have to conclude based on the reputation owner of said pillow cases that he wouldn't want the electronic humming under his head during rest periods. Thus the bicycles in question would indeed be fully human powered with no form of electronic power assist.

But this only pertains to the pillow cases. We have no idea what could be hiding under the blankets/sleeping bags that may be electronically assisted.

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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Oh! An excellent thought process you have there. So, Harold...what's under the covers? Any battery powered devices that lies beyond the visual?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cleared2land said:


> Oh! An excellent thought process you have there. So, Harold...what's under the covers? Any battery powered devices that lies beyond the visual?


Pretty minimal battery powered devices. Just the roof fan, ceiling light, galley light, and the usb/12v ports. We have been charging phones and garmins overnight.

We are plugged in, so the electric blanket runs off of the campsite power pedestal. Also no need to use the solar panels on this trip.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Harold said:


> We are plugged in, so the electric blanket runs off of the campsite power pedestal. Also no need to use the solar panels on this trip.


Plugged in!? Electric blankets?

This sounds more like home.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Electric blanket? It camping lol.

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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I am comfy. It makes the wife happy. And because we sleep well, we ride more. So fack you guys.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

Harold said:


> I am comfy. It makes the wife happy. And because we sleep well, we ride more. So fack you guys.




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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

It's all in fun. We know, that you know that.


Back to your first trip and proving run. When you return, we'd be interesting in hearing how this turns out. What utilities or amenities need to be considered, added or eliminated? A technical report?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cleared2land said:


> It's all in fun. We know, that you know that.
> 
> Back to your first trip and proving run. When you return, we'd be interesting in hearing how this turns out. What utilities or amenities need to be considered, added or eliminated? A technical report?


Will do. Climate control (humidity in particular) is tricky to manage in a wooden box. Some nights, we nailed it and others have been less than wonderful and very stuffy.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Having a truck bed camper shell, many years ago we quickly discovered the fine art of humidity control. 

During rainy periods, this can become a particularly significant issue. There's no substitute for efficient fresh air circulation.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

I'm definitely curious to get updates as well. Especially how it tows (full mileage changes and handling in the wind on the highway) with the bikes on top.

Only in planning stages myself as I'm going to build ours. I want to keep it at 1500 lbs or less loaded. Granted our Odyssey is rated for 3000lbs I want to keep the weight down.

Harold, I saw at the begining of the thread you had mentioned putting the bikes on the front platform. What made you go to roof mounted?

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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

RAKC Ind said:


> I'm definitely curious to get updates as well. Especially how it tows (full mileage changes and handling in the wind on the highway) with the bikes on top.
> 
> Only in planning stages myself as I'm going to build ours. I want to keep it at 1500 lbs or less loaded. Granted our Odyssey is rated for 3000lbs I want to keep the weight down.
> 
> ...


I was not tracking fuel economy much on the way out. I will pn my way back home. Of course dropping elevation and with a general tailwind it will be better. I noticed MAJOR fuel consumption increase if I tried to use cruise all the time. The engine wanted to gun for every little grade.

So I limited cruise control.to the flats. I would allow the car to slow on the climbs and get up to 80 going down. That reduced the hit to fuel economy.

The trailer towed really well. The only time crosswinds were an issue was when there was aa severe storm that trew a huge gust and tried to throw me into the ditch. I waited for the storm to blow by (it skirted me, so I only got wind, none of the rain or hail or anything else) and was fine after. For the rest of the drive, I think crosswinds topped at 10mph, so they were not horrible anyway.

The decision to go roof rack instead of on the platform had to do with wanting to have a tongue storage box for the battery and electrical stuff, as well as things like locks, chocks, and some tools.

I do feel like I would like a small truck with a camper shell for future long road trips, though. There is just too much extra to consider when pulling it with a 4cyl car that my wife is not comfortable doing long drives with it. For short local stuff, it is no biggie.

I do not like the adapter I have for bringing the kuat rack along. We have needed that rack while here to get to the trailhead, but there is not enough space between the kuat aand the trailer for tight maneuvering. If I turn too tight, the rack will hit the tongue box. If I enter too steep of a driveway or gravel road or something, the coupler will hit the bottom of the rack, so I have to take it super easy. I will be having a hitch receiver added to the back of the trailer.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

The storms I definitely understand, we had that batch come through last tuesday (I'm only about 1.5hrs south from the WI border, right on the Miss river).

We have a Honda Odyssey V6 (first year they put the bigger Ridgeline transmissions in them). The way your trailer is designed is what I'm aiming for. Keep it below the height of the van.

I'm thinking cargo box set up on either front side of the trailer axles (5x8 with possibly the tongue extended a little) and using something like roof rack trays.

The rear hitch idea I like too as I can put 2 front and the third bike on the rear as my wife decided she wants me to teach her to ride with us.

Mine won't have a galley, instead that area is going to be a hatch still but as either extended (opens out and adds a small deck) or bunk style beds for my boys. Figure I'll chop up our current tent to make sides that go around it but platform is at trailer level. 

One side I'm thinking a small gull wing instead of a door, again using tent material under that (removable though).

We just want to get away from tents so I'm tossing around 100, ideas ATM as to what I wanna do. Digging through your thread is helping since carrying bikes is a priority for me as well.

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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*No Walls...*

For off-road and remote wanderings, we have enjoyed some of the distinct advantages offered by a truck & camper shell combination.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*Tear Drop Ideas...*

Some good stuff here...

Teardrop Trailer Ideas


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Finally made it home late last night.

I can now provide a little more insight on how the trailer handles winds with bikes up top. We were less than a day behind some really gnarly storms that threw out wind advisories across our entire route. Thankfully we weren't in the thick of the 60mph sustained winds, but I'm pretty certain we had sustained 20+mph crosswinds in some areas. I think the highest crosswinds were in Petrified Forest National Park, and thankfully that's where we were driving slowest. But still, for sustained crosswinds, even with bikes on the roof, the trailer handled extremely well. I could feel the winds, but never did they affect handling. The only spot that crosswinds really bothered me was that storm we were on the edge of in Missouri on our way out. That was a pretty major gust MUCH higher than the sustained winds at the time.

Fuel economy took a big hit. I didn't calculate on the way out. But the drive back was 1683mi. For that whole distance, fuel economy was 18.13mpg, and we usually average about 29mpg in the car without towing. I'd have been able to do a rough calculation including the drive out if the gas pumps had printed all the receipts, but two of them didn't print and I didn't feel like going into the station and asking the attendant.

That kind of fuel economy drop isn't that big of a deal on a short drive...but for bigger trips that hurts. But I think a bigger issue is what it means for reduced range in the car. The extra stops meant the drive took quite a lot longer. I had 9 stops for gas in the 2 days it took to drive home. That probably equates to 2+hrs per day, I'd guess. Some may not have been absolutely necessary, but I made them because of uncertainty about the distance to the next one.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Not totally surprising with the bikes on top of the trails, think roof rack fuel loses combine with towing weight. Though I didn't expect you to loose 10mpg, that's a BIG hit.

I will definitely work around making sure bikes are down low to at least cut the losses from that. We already don't get that kind of fuel mileage so taking a big hit would really suck.

Thanks for the updates, glad trip went uneventful especially with all the storms that have been coming through our region the last couple weeks.

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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Round Trip Brown County to Sedona is about 3276 miles (estimated).

Normal Subie gas mileage without trailer is approximately 29 mpg 

At 29 mpg, you would use 112.96 gallons of fuel to complete 3276 miles without pulling trailer. 

Pulling trailer gas mileage dropped to 18.13 mpg. 10.87 mpg loss Therefore, 180.69 gallons of fuel consumed at 18.13 mpg 

67.73 more gallons of gas to make same trip and pull trailer.

67.73 x $2.15 estimated average gas price = $145.63 extra cost to pull trailer to Sedona from Brown County.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Counting the several little side trips we made during the road trip, and the fact that our campsite was in Cottonwood, our total driving distance was more like 3400-3500mi. Figure that the fuel tank on the Subie is 15 gal, and I'd be looking at an absolute bare minimum of 13 fuel stops for the entire trip. Assume food at 2x/day, and bathroom breaks at nearly every fuel stop, and that's probably an average of about half an hour per stop. That's close to 6hrs of stoppage time.

Ever since I saw the 2017 Chevy Colorado had a diesel option, I've been wanting it BAD. The hit to fuel economy for something like that (30mpg highway, and 7700lb towing) would be MUCH less than 10mpg. And that want predates the teardrop purchase by awhile. I've wanted a small diesel 4wd pickup for years. Let's assume 25mpg for towing a 1500lb teardrop (I'd assume the hit is less than that) and a 21gal fuel tank. That gives 140gal of fuel consumed. And with a 21gal tank, that's 7 stops total. That would be close to halving stoppage time. I can't eliminate bathroom breaks, though. So I'd still be making stops to pee, even though I wouldn't need to fuel up, so it won't cut minimum stoppage time quite so much.

In the meantime, however, we're considering getting the bikes off the roof for longer trips (say, farther than the 1hr to Brown County for me) - places like Sheltowee Trace, Pisgah, and whatnot. My mattress is a tri-fold design, so I can theoretically fold up the mattress and put the bikes inside the trailer through the side doors. I've got a fork mount rig inside my Honda Fit that I could toss into the teardrop for experimentation purposes. That should cut the wind profile of the trailer. Curious how it will change the hit to fuel economy. IMO, dealing with all that is more of a PITA than is necessary for short range camping/riding trips, which will most likely be the bulk of our use. So the roof trays will still be vital. I do like the 1UP trays. Easiest roof trays for loading/unloading that I've ever used.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Wind resistance there is like anything. It increases exponentially with speed. I wouldn't be surprised if you gained 4-5mph. My cobalt going from a high trunk rack to a hitch rack gained 6mph highway getting the bikes behind the car instead half the bike being above the trunk deck. It makes a HUGE difference.

I know kuat says not to (liability reasons obviously) but I'm strongly considering a hitch adapter that would put my transfer 2 above the tongue. I already use a short extension/adapter to move it out just far enough to get the rear deck open when I tilt the rack.

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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

RAKC Ind said:


> Wind resistance there is like anything. It increases exponentially with speed. I wouldn't be surprised if you gained 4-5mph. My cobalt going from a high trunk rack to a hitch rack gained 6mph highway getting the bikes behind the car instead half the bike being above the trunk deck. It makes a HUGE difference.
> 
> I know kuat says not to (liability reasons obviously) but I'm strongly considering a hitch adapter that would put my transfer 2 above the tongue. I already use a short extension/adapter to move it out just far enough to get the rear deck open when I tilt the rack.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


I put my NV above the tongue, but just to transport the rack out. I don't have enough room to fold the rack down over the trailer tongue. It isn't long enough. My turning radius was affected, for sure. For that matter, elevation was a problem, too. Barely any space above the coupler for the rack. I had to be SUPER careful about steep driveway type transitions (I encountered a couple at gas stations). I had to remove the centered tongue jack and add a clamp-on foldable tongue jack to account for it.


20170226_160446 by Nate, on Flickr

This was a real pain in the ass to deal with. I was tempted to put the bike trays on the roof of the car and leave the Kuat at home because of it. Too many compromises, to be honest. Another reason to get a truck with better towing capacity for longer trips. Thankfully, most local spots I'll be camping are right at or very near a trailhead so I can ride there, and I won't need the Kuat. It's the longer trips where trailheads might be farther away where it's an issue.

I am going to get a hitch receiver added to the back of the trailer. I should have ordered that from the start, but thankfully the builder is close. I will have to measure things up to see if he can space it down enough that I can still open the rear galley door with the rack attached.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

My transfer 2 has that rise in it so with the stem up adapter I think I can get by with it, especially being it's behind a minivan. I'll make use of Amazon for that test.

I'm not worried about the tilt when towing but you made a good point about turn radius being an issue...

PS: I may be having to carry an additional bike by that point, wife is progressing well with learning to ride my sons fat bike, so chances are shell end up with one too (which would delay camper build but worth it!!!)

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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Harold said:


> Another reason to get a truck with better towing capacity for longer trips.
> 
> I am going to get a hitch receiver added to the back of the trailer. I should have ordered that from the start, but thankfully the builder is close. I will have to measure things up to see if he can space it down enough that I can still open the rear galley door with the rack attached.


We have done enough extensive road trips with a Toyota Camry to have have learned the fine art of lean and light travel. We stepped up to a full-size truck with a camper shell and that was like rolling in an RV for us. There are many compromises we make to travel in a manner that's responsible and having your cake and eating it too. The truck was like having your cake and eating it too.

I have no problem averaging 20+ mpg including slow off-road travel. But one advantage to the big ride is a 32 gallon gas tank that gives us more than 600+ miles on a tank. When the weather and/or the views are good (most of the time), we sleep on the roof deck. There's nothing like unobstructed views of stars and landscape.

Back to your trailer...perhaps your rear trailer receiver could be fabricated to telescope with the release of a lock pin to extend a foot or more aft and out to clear any rear galley obstructions? It seems very mechanically feasible.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cleared2land said:


> Back to your trailer...perhaps your rear trailer receiver could be fabricated to telescope with the release of a lock pin to extend a foot or more aft and out to clear any rear galley obstructions? It seems very mechanically feasible.


Seems to me that the under-mount spare tire would get in the way of something like that. I have a feeling that lowering the receiver is going to be easier. Or that swing-out adapter for hitch racks that one guy posted about in the car & biker forum.


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## northernfatbike (Oct 27, 2016)

*teardrop*

I did make a version of a teardrop for pulling behind my Jeep a few years ago, Welded the frame up from 2x2 steel tubing and made the trailer frame out of 2x2 wood with pink extruded foam in the walls and 1/4" plywood skin inside and out. For a roof used the foam, plastic covered roof from a pop up I got at an auction for cheap. Door was a cut down door a neighbor gave me from an old motor home and i ordered 3 windows from ebay. *' long inside, just under 6' wide and interior height of 5' 8" so I could stand while slouching inside. Way overbuilt it but it was tough and i used it down to around 15 below weather. Would have been great for camping and bike riding, but i traded it for a used 18' travel trailer which is going to be great for bike camping now that I,ve got a nice fatbike. If you make a trailer go the tiny trailer, lots of info there


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Build-your-own Teardrop Camper Kit and Plans

Just came across this. Cool. I don't need it but it's cool.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

NYrr496 said:


> Build-your-own Teardrop Camper Kit and Plans
> 
> Just came across this. Cool. I don't need it but it's cool.


Oh yeah, i dug up lots of kits when I was researching building one. Some are better than others for sure.

This one is one that I found back then and it's definitely one of the better ones. The extra cost of sourcing a good trailer to build off of pushed me to buy premade.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ Performed any modifications to yours yet?


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## HotHead (Feb 24, 2015)

Harold, I definitely recommend the Colorado! I have a 2016 gasser. I have heard a lot of good about the diesel. Trucks are fun.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^ Performed any modifications to yours yet?


Working on a couple. But since my welding skills are limited to running a crappy bead along a flat piece of steel at this point, I'm working with the trailer's original builder on these.

I'm talking to him about a better way to carry an empty hitch bike rack (for shuttling to trailheads farther from camp) than I did for my first trip. I have been talking to him about this for a long time, so he knows what I have in mind, and he's come up with some ideas to make it work. Turns out, just putting a hitch receiver on the back of the trailer isn't quite as simple of a solution as it sounds. With the galley door being a side swing, there's no way I could access it without removing the bike rack. And frankly, I'm not interested in that as a possible solution at a pit stop mid road trip (which I did multiple times on my inaugural road trip).

He hasn't told me his idea yet. He's got me taking a pile of photos and measurements of the bike rack, but I'm wondering if he's thinking of putting a forward-facing receiver underneath the tongue box that tucks the rack snugly in there.

The other thing I've got him working on figuring out is a way to carry a 20lb propane tank. I was thinking of putting it in the empty space of the A-frame trailer tongue in front of the tool box. Apparently, nobody makes a bolt-on carrier for a single tank (plenty of double tank options, which I don't want), so anything would have to be welded up custom. He can certainly do it, but hasn't committed to the idea yet, which is why I think he's thinking of a way to put the bike rack there.

If we put the rack there, I don't think I'll be able to use one of the 20lb tanks I already have. I'll probably have to get one of the refillable 5 or 11lb tanks and hang it off of the exterior side wall of the trailer (which is how most of his customers do it). I had been trying to avoid buying another tank, since I've already got two 20 pounders I'm not even using for anything else.

I'm debating putting a hitch on my Honda Fit so I can take the trailer on short local trips when my wife has to work. There are some camping/riding/trail building weekends on the local club's schedule this year to hammer out a new trail before our mtb fest this fall, and I'd love to drag the teardrop down for at least a couple of them. As much as I love the Colorado with the diesel, there's no way I'm going to be able to swing a $40k vehicle. So the more practical thought is to find a decent used pickup truck that I might even be able to pay for outright to avoid an auto loan (my Honda is paid off, but the Subie isn't).

I do need a better cooler for the teardrop. Probably going to pick up an Rtic that will fit into the galley, since my big cooler is on wheels and has the wrong dimensions for that. Once I get it, I'll be looking at the dimensions of everything to see if I can put together a slide-out tray for the cooler to make it easy to access/refill/load/unload. I'll also be tracking down some better bins to organize the galley. On this trip, I used what I had, which were open-topped milk crate style stuff. They were okay, but I can do better. Just lots of shopping around and LOTS of measuring.

For now, I'll just be doing some curtains to cover the windows for privacy, and looking at some shelves/drawers to better organize clothes. We had everything just tossed around inside on our trip, which was annoying. I've got some ideas on some premade shelves I could possibly fit inside and just screw into the walls. The curtains will be easy. Lots of folks are hanging small rods with 3M Command hooks, so no drilling involved there. And I can sew up some curtains with whatever fabric I can get the wife to agree to.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*Check this out, some great ideas...*

I posted this a while back, but not sure if you caught it...


Teardrop Trailer Ideas


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cleared2land said:


> I posted this a while back, but not sure if you caught it...
> 
> 
> Teardrop Trailer Ideas


saw the link. my computer hates pinterest. I hate pinterest, for that matter. I have plenty of alternative sources for said ideas.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Did a little interior work this week. The wife and I got curtains set up for the side windows. The windows have a nice, dark tint which means during daytime, people can't see in, but it does nothing at night when the interior is lit. So curtains are needed.

I decided to do the 3M Command Hook curtain rod method. Simple multipurpose hooks with a cafe curtain rod of the appropriate length and a smaller "cafe curtain" made to cover half a window or so. Still had to hem 7 or 8 inches off the bottom, but that's easier than sewing something up from scratch. I was unimpressed with the fabric choices at the fabric store.









I'll be attaching some footman loops and webbing straps in the galley later this week to keep things from sliding around as much.

Still haven't worked out the mods to the trailer itself for the propane tank and to carry the hitch rack better. Won't need them for my local camping trip this weekend. Still deciding on the cooler setup. Leaning towards an Rtic 45gal cooler, which will fit the space I have. But I'm tempted by a Canyon Cooler 55gal which will also fit the space. The major dimension that's proving to be an issue is the height. For every other manufacturer I've checked, coolers in the 40gal+ range are all too tall. The Rtic has the edge because it's about half the cost of the Canyon. The cooler I'm using now is a 60gal, so I'm not sure how I'll like going smaller.

I was starting to consider buying a small used truck, especially if I landed a new full time permanent job I applied for. I ended up accepting a crappy paying seasonal job, so the truck won't be happening. So I'm definitely leaning towards installing a hitch onto my Honda so I can have a 2nd vehicle that can move the trailer, at least for short trips.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Loving the sheets! Lol

I like the curtain set up, command hook route is a really sweet idea, let me know how that holds up.

My trailer is about ready, won't have time to chase materials till next week.

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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

RAKC Ind said:


> I like the curtain set up, command hook route is a really sweet idea, let me know how that holds up.


Will do. It's an idea I got from the Hiker Trailer owner's group on Facebook. Lots of customizations get shared on there. It seems many who use command hooks add 2 more upside-down to hold the rod securely. Problem with that is with getting it off if you ever want to change out the curtains. These hooks slide upward on little clips to expose the adhesive strip and if I have 2 up and 2 down holding a rod with ends, there's no simple, clean way to remove them. That's why I installed them this way, and will be using a zip tie to hold the rod semi securely. The rod came with little brackets that screw in, but I'd have to use such wimpy screws on these walls to avoid poking all the way through that I felt like this method was at least as secure.

As for the sheets, those are my wife's find. Expensive, but a nice little touch. She found them here:

https://www.denydesigns.com/

I want the "Sedona" pattern, which are desert-colored topo lines. I don't think it's an actual topo map of Sedona, but it's a cool design nevertheless.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I saw this 'swing-away' bike rack a few days a ago.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cleared2land said:


> I saw this 'swing-away' bike rack a few days a ago.
> 
> View attachment 1132572


That's a new one. I don't like that carry method, though. 'cause full suspension bikes, you know. ;-)

But as for the swing-away concept, I've considered it.

In particular one of these sorts of things so I could still keep a platform rack:

http://forums.mtbr.com/car-biker/hi...swings-away-when-you-need-access-1032769.html

It's an expensive way of going about addressing the problem, though. I'd probably rather just move the roof trays from the trailer to the car and buy a Feedback repair stand that I can pack along for workstand duties.

I'm doing a camping trip this weekend that might involve some riding (thought it most certainly will involve trail building). It might not due to weather, though, but either way I'll be camping right by the trailhead so won't need to concern myself with bringing the Kuat at all. And most of my trips will be like that. Trips where I need to ferry/shuttle the bikes away from camp to find trailheads will be much rarer.


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## Hiimdoc (May 8, 2017)

View attachment 1136169
I just started a pretty high dollar camping rig build yesterday. 2 bikes are going across the front and the kayaks on top of the racks. Blew all my play loot on an enduro last week so I figured I'd work with what I had laying around. And had to keep it light enough to tow with her cobalt when I don't feel like taking my truck out of state


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

OMG poor colbalt. I used to own one. 2 bikes, gear in the trunk with 2 kids in the back seats was about all she wanted to deal with. Owned her since new, great car, but that drivetrain starts to notice extra weight and wind resistance pretty fast. I gained 2 mpg going to a hitch from trunk rack lol.

If your going to pull that with a Cobalt, have an external transmission cooler installed and make sure you have the updated timing chain system.

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## Hiimdoc (May 8, 2017)

Yeahhh I might be getting a little ambitious with the little guy. Good call with the tranny cooler tho. Honestly it might just die of embarrassment when it gets seen in public with this thing... I'll have more pictures once it's complete ish and loaded up with the bikes

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## Hiimdoc (May 8, 2017)

Almost ready to get made fun of by every squirell in the nh state parks









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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Hiimdoc said:


> Almost ready to get made fun of by every squirell in the nh state parks.


If your statement is making reference to others making fun of your home-built trailer, then eff them. You've created something that works for you and it's fully functional. Kudos!


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Ok plain and simple, that is fraking AWESOME.

Only thing is needs is a good coat of sealer and a mattress.

I don't care what anyone says, ya the pros make some nice stuff but it's the ingenuity of guys like you just using what you have to make what you need that's the best. Who gives a crap what others think.

It does the job, it was cheap and truly I'm kind of jealous I didnt think of that. Though my wife would have probably told me hell no going that simple, I think it's cool as hell!

That said I start the actual camper build tomorrow (between work, weather, getting sick etc all I have is the trailer ready finally). I'll share some pics once I make some decent progress.

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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

RAKC Ind said:


> Ok plain and simple, that is fraking AWESOME.
> 
> Only thing is needs is a good coat of sealer and a mattress.


My vote is for a paint job. But yeah, it's a great little setup.

I also think you'll find that you at least want a fan that can move some air. This isn't quite as airtight as more elaborate trailers can be, but it's still going to get quite stuffy. Maybe also work in some insulation (good for both hot and cold, fwiw). But neither of those things is related to appearance.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I'd paint that with one of those deck coatings to make it good and waterproof.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I would sleep in there no problem! Agree on most of the ideas posted, insulation, mattress, vent fan, and waterproof paint. Also maybe some netting attached to the ceiling for storage.


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## Hiimdoc (May 8, 2017)

Thanks for all the input. Plans are set for a memorial day weekend trip out to western ma. The cap has 2 screened bump out windows and I'll looking into a 4" vent fan to pull air thru the cabin. Insulation isn't in the near future but I'll playing with the idea. The cap is carpet lined with a cabinet, lighting (12v and battery), and a hanger rod so it'll be a little bit of a project. Flashing, weatherstripping, paint and maybe a rug are in the plans for this week. Just trying to decide if I should paint it blue like the cap, black, or something obnoxious and bright. Cause this thing won't be blending in anywhere anyway. 

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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I stayed with white on my trailer because it reflects heat better. Your dark cap is going to absorb heat, so I'm going to suspect you'll have some issues with that. With the dark cap, yours will absorb heat nicely when it's cold, though. If it was me, I'd probably roll with the color you've got on the rest of it.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Same here, roll with the color you have, just park in the shade.

We're going blue on the sides and white on top with the one we're building. Then a neon green awning  because we have a 5x6 piece of water resistant outdoor vinyl. Wife's idea as of yesterday. Just now to choose a blue that won't look rediculous. Though all white with the green would look pretty slick too.

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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*Tested: Hiker Trailer, the World's Most Affordable Teardrop Trailer*

Outside Magazine Teardrop Article


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cleared2land said:


> Outside Magazine Teardrop Article


Yep. Knew that one was coming eventually. The builder told me that Outside had one they were using.

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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

How does the article compare to your thoughts. Compare and contrast?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cleared2land said:


> How does the article compare to your thoughts. Compare and contrast?


I have a bit more on my trailer. Mine is bigger, too. I just have to wonder wtf the author was doing that he had trouble backing up the trailer. I have had NO trouble doing so, even in some pretty tight spaces.

Maybe the author has never towed before, or even driven a big truck. I dunno.

Otherwise, most of the impressions fit with my experiences with the trailer.

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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

I was LMAOing at the part too. Try backing a 5x8 (wheels inset, was 4x6 till mod work) basic flat trailer with a minivan. Can't see the thing except one corner when turning. Still 0 issues backing it right where I need it after the first couple times. Smallest trailer I've ever towed so took a little getting used to.

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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

This has been a good thread and I'm just giving it a bump hopefully for a little resurrection.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I am thinking about a couple additions to my trailer for the coming season. First, I think, will be an external holder for a smaller bulk propane cylinder so I can wean myself off of the little 1lb green things.

I also will be adding some electrical bits. Some 12v and usb outlets in the galley (the ones I have are in the cabin at the opposite end of the trailer). Also a 110v exterior outlet for when I'm on shore power.

Probably also a permanently attached flexible solar panel on the roof. I had to park my trailer in a storage unit for a couple months while I was in the process of buying a house in Asheville, NC and my battery died because I did not have access to power there.

Maybe after all that a power inverter.

I also got to attend the Overland East expo this fall in Asheville, and a Dometic 12v fridge has made an appearance on the list. My electrical upgrades will enable me to add one and even be able to use it for a decent time while boondocking. They have impressively low power consumption.

I will probably also be working a bit more on better galley organization.

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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Im actually planning a new build. Now that I know better what Im doing I can build another one for 1/2 the price and A LOT lighter weight.

Want something my 03 CRV can handle easily. Though this one is under 1500 loaded, add any extra gear and passengers Im way over weight. Wife Odyssey could care less. 

Part of it too will be a bit more aerodynamic. Try to minimize the square back.

Harold,

Thanks for sharing the info about the fridge, going to look into that. A small fridge would be greatly helpful for us. Us plus 2 kids means 2 coolers to cover a 3 day weekend....

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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

RAKC Ind said:


> Thanks for sharing the info about the fridge, going to look into that. A small fridge would be greatly helpful for us. Us plus 2 kids means 2 coolers to cover a 3 day weekend....
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


One nice thing about the 12v fridges is that you fit more food into a smaller space, since you don't need ice.

You can even set them up as a freezer, and use your cooler for just keeping ither stuff cool. The bigger ones have two zones.

They aren't cheap, though. Prob looking at $400 for the one I want.

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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

I didnt expect a good one to be terribly cheap. Something we'll have to save for but having a clue where to look for something that is worth the money is really helpful.

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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Just found something else expensive to add to the build/mod list.

https://www.rockymountainwesty.com/Propex_HS2211_External_Gas_Air_Heater_p/hs2211.htm

Propane forced air furnace. Externally mounted. I would bet highly that something like this would cut condensation SIGNIFICANTLY when sleeping in cool/cold nights by circulating warm/dry air in the cabin.

Condensation has been a bit of an issue for me on cool nights. It's difficult to run the roof fan high enough to knock out the condensation because it also has the effect of making everything even colder inside. Propane allows this to be used even when boondocking, which is a huge benefit.

I have had fewer comfort issues when it's warm, actually. When choosing my build initially, I thought it would actually be the opposite.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

No doubt having warm, dry forced air will contribute to the creature comforts in colder weather, but Yowza! 

$$$


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cleared2land said:


> No doubt having warm, dry forced air will contribute to the creature comforts in colder weather, but Yowza!
> 
> $$$


yeah, that one is going to be pretty far down on the mod list for me. I'll need to add propane before that can happen. And probably something bigger than a single small cylinder. Since it's next to impossible for me to find a holder for a single 20lb cylinder on the tongue of my trailer, and there are nearly infinite options for paired cylinders in that location, I might go with a paired 11lb cylinder setup. Initially, I only planned to use the propane for a stove. But then it occurred to me that a propane firepit would be awful nice. I've done a couple events where camping was in regular ol parking lots, and a propane firepit or a portable wood-burning firepit are the only options. A propane one would be much better. Then, if I wanted to add something like one of these propane forced air furnaces or a propane water heater (for warm showers in cold temps), I'd have the capacity for it.

If I do any winter trips this year, I'll just make do with what I've done so far. Been reading about how some folks use a Mr. Buddy to pre-heat the camper before getting in for bed. The electric blanket option is pretty nice when there's shore power, too. I've been researching 12v heaters, and nothing at any cost really looks satisfactory. There aren't even any queen sized 12v electric blankets, which means to heat both my wife and I, we'd need two...which means I'd need to add 12v outlets before I could make that happen, because we only have one 12v outlet right now at the head end of the camper. Not to mention the power consumption would be high enough (especially with my wife cranking hers as high as it would go) that I'd need another battery (or two) and then probably an upgraded charger and much more solar panel area. Ugh. That'd probably wind up costing nearly as much, with less utility.


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