# Epic Ride on a Specialized Turbo Levo!



## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

I got a chance to test out the range of my wife's Specialized Turbo Levo this past weekend. I wanted to see how far and long I could take the bike. Turns out, quite far! I managed to ride 35 miles and climb 6000 feet! 



Of course, there's a catch, in order to get that far on a single charge, I used the Specialized Mission Control App dial back the power output, starting at 10% for the first 3000 feet of climbing and 15% of max for the second 3000 feet of climbing. Acceleration response and max motor current settings were also set to the minimum settings throughout the ride. I also turned off the motor in "flat-ish" sections of the ride in order to make sure I finished the ride with just a little of juice left, in case I got tired for the final climb back to the car. Sure enough, I had about 5% battery life when I finished the ride. 

It was no cakewalk of a ride, that's for sure! The bike was giving me a boost, making the tough climb up Harding Truck trail to Santiago peak relatively bearable. But not so much that the fit-skinny riders I rode with couldn't keep up and pass me (I ride about 4 times a week, so I'm "ride-fit" but I weight 230 lbs in gear, so I'm no lightweight skinny guy). 

I wore my HR monitor, so I could compare my efforts to other rides I normally do. In essence, I was on moving for over 5 hours with the Levo, but my Strava Suffer Score was consistent with a 2 1/2- 3 hour ride with about 3000 feet of elevation gain that I would do on my Pivot Mach 429. 

Overall, I thought it was pretty cool that the Levo allowed me to go farther than i would have gone otherwise with a given level of effort. The bike was a lot of fun down Holy Jim trail as well! 

I'm not giving up my Stumpjumper FSR Evo or my Pivot anytime soon to ride this bike, but if my skinny friends ever want to do another all day Epic Ride again, I'm taking the Levo!


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Excuse me for thinking out loud but, I'm seeing a disconnect in touting doing half the work of a normal ride.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

tiretracks said:


> Excuse me for thinking out loud but, I'm seeing a disconnect in touting doing half the work of a normal ride.


You're totally welcome to wonder out loud. If a normal ride for you is 5 1/2 hours of pedaling, 6000 feet of elevation gain and 7-8 hours of being out in the heat, then kudos to you!!! You are a better, stronger, fitter man then I! If that's a normal ride for you, I could see how there would be a big disconnect. Totally.

For me, a normal ride is about 2 to 2 1/2 hours and about 2000-2500, maybe 3000 feet of elevation gain. So pedaling for 5 1/2 hours, 6000 feet and being out for a total ride time of 7-8 hours is kind of a big day for me, personally. So doing that with the relative effort of only 2 1/2-3 hours of riding is pretty good, overall. Ordinarily, I would be wiped after being outside on the trails for 7-8 hours. But in this case, it was not a huge deal thanks to the Levo.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Pretty good range, but you nursed it well. My wife (118 pounds) rode the 16 -18 mile round trip to four corners and back on a Haibike and used two of five bars (36V, 11/ah) - same for a 148 pound friend on a Felt, both Bosch-powered. Surprisingly (or not), riding the same speed on my BBS02 hardtail with 52V, 10 a/h battery, I used about 85% of the charge. Most of the time we ride this route on MTB's, but this was a nice diversion.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

tiretracks said:


> Excuse me for thinking out loud but, I'm seeing a disconnect in touting doing half the work of a normal ride.


tiretracks

Let's you and I have a personal conversation here on mtbr for a bit:

What kind of bike do you ride? Where do you ride? Why don't you post some info about rides you do, and how your bike performs?

Tell us how pedalling around with no e assist makes you happy!


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

👍the OP rides four times a week, which I'm sure is only half of what tiretracks rides...


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Gutch said:


> 👍the OP rides four times a week, which I'm sure is only half of what tiretracks rides...


Riding is good no mater what you ride, and sharing good quality stuff here on mtbr with friends is super. I cherish making new friends every day!


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

fos'l said:


> Pretty good range, but you nursed it well. My wife (118 pounds) rode the 16 -18 mile round trip to four corners and back on a Haibike and used two of five bars (36V, 11/ah) - same for a 148 pound friend on a Felt, both Bosch-powered. Surprisingly (or not), riding the same speed on my BBS02 hardtail with 52V, 10 a/h battery, I used about 85% of the charge. Most of the time we ride this route on MTB's, but this was a nice diversion.


Wow!!! Nice! That's a lot of range on the Haibike.

I bought the e-bike for my wife a few months ago. It's pretty cool, because my 7 year old son is getting into mountain biking as well. So far, only Chino Hills State Park and the Fullerton Loop for him. But my wife was not interested in doing anything other than the Santa Ana river bed routes (totally flat, paved rides for those not local to Southern California). With the e-bike, she's willing to join in the dirt rides.

Luckily, she's 5'8" and I'm 5'10", so i can fit her e-bike with just a 20mm longer stem and seat hight adjustments. It's like having an extra bike in my own quiver!


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

NEPMTBA said:


> Riding is good no mater what you ride, and sharing good quality stuff here on mtbr with friends is super. I cherish making new friends every day!


Agreed! I understand there's a lot of hate for e-bikes. I didn't share to stir pots, I only shared for people to understand what's possible with an e-bike.

As I said, I ride a lot. I generally don't mind climbing, especially when a fun downhill awaits me. But the Harding Truck Trail/Santiago Peak climb is one of the most grueling, relentless climbs we have in SoCal (for those not familiar, look at the Strava elevation data I posted). I normally don't bother with this climb because the effort is not worth the reward, IMHO, once you've done it a few times (unless of course, you ride because you LIKE to suffer. I ride because I enjoy riding, not "suffering").

Oh, and by the way, I classified the ride within Strava as an "e-bike" activity to ensure that no standard 100% human-powered ride KOMs were in danger of being harmed during the course of the ride.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

I enjoyed your post very much...
...keep the good stuff coming!


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## jsalas2 (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks for the ride info, gives me an idea as to the capabilities of the bike.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Thanks for confirming that a normal guy on an ebike has twice the impact as they do on a mtb. Something for all of us that maintain the trails to keep in mind.


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## jsalas2 (Nov 29, 2008)

Taking it out today, gonna try some of those settings. Will report


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Interesting post. 6,000 feet of up? That's crazy. Here in MA we only have little ridges and hills, some bigger stuff in the far west of the state. So you have done this on a just a regular mt bike, correct? Does the weight of the bike outweigh the benefits of the battery? I'm guessing not.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

Harryman said:


> Thanks for confirming that a normal guy on an ebike has twice the impact as they do on a mtb. Something for all of us that maintain the trails to keep in mind.


You are totally welcome!!

I agree you trail maintainers should use this data to help determine how mass, speed and distance of mountain bikers using e-assist mountain bikes are all so damaging to the trails, and restrict use accordingly!

Let's see, first mass: 230 lbs rider + 50 lbs bike = 280 lbs. Surely, way too fat and heavy to allow for trail use. Let's make sure to limit trial use to those who are only 140lbs or less combined bike/rider weight. We wouldn't want fat asses degrading or further compressing dirt.

Speed: Oh yes, climbing for 4 hours at a rate of 3.5mph. That's way too fast. Imagine all the rooster tails and dust I was kicking up at that speed. Let's make sure to limit trail riding to no more than 2mph to ensure that no dust is kicked up.

Mileage: Certainly, 35 miles is way too much for one person, in one day. Let's limit that to a maximum of 17.5 per day, in order to conserve enough trails for everyone.

You trial-builders (well, in this case, the forest service since I was using truck trails and fire roads), shouldn't have to put up with the likes of me tearing up the trails!! How dare I cover twice as much ground as I normally would?? Thank you for shaming me. I needed that.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

I know in my area of riding an elevation gain of 1000 feet uses up battery much quicker even in the 20 percent level.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

leeboh said:


> Interesting post. 6,000 feet of up? That's crazy. Here in MA we only have little ridges and hills, some bigger stuff in the far west of the state. So you have done this on a just a regular mt bike, correct? Does the weight of the bike outweigh the benefits of the battery? I'm guessing not.


I had done the Harding climb before as an out and back on my 100% human powered pivot. In my opinion, it's a pretty brutal climb (at least for me it is)! I had not done the downhill part on the other side of Santiago Peak, because I would ordinarily be too tired from the climb to do it safely. I'd say, overall event taking into consideration the weight of the motor and the battery, it was a net benefit for the long climb. 10% and 15% power meant I was working, but not under heavy stress. My average heart rate up the climb was about 135 bpm and I max out at about 175. When I've done it under 100% my own power, I'm so close to maxing out the whole way up, I'm in no mood to even talk to my riding partners.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

NEPMTBA said:


> tiretracks
> 
> Let's you and I have a personal conversation here on mtbr for a bit:
> 
> ...


Sure, when I ride an emotorbike I'll be sure to get pics and everything. Which by the way will be the day after never...

My self propelled rides would be of no interest to you being that they lack the "epicness" of using motor power to accomplish the task.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Harryman said:


> Thanks for confirming that a normal guy on an ebike has twice the impact as they do on a mtb. Something for all of us that maintain the trails to keep in mind.


 Slower Human Powered Bikes damage trails as they grind the dirt more to propel themselves. HPBs slip the tires more that E bikes also. An e-bike has the traction and torque with less wheel slippage, due to added weight.

I can speak of unproven facts either way as can you.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

AGarcia said:


> You are totally welcome!!
> 
> I agree you trail maintainers should use this data to help determine how mass, speed and distance of mountain bikers using e-assist mountain bikes are all so damaging to the trails, and restrict use accordingly!
> 
> ...


Last time I checked Holy Jim was a single track...and yes, our club is the one that does the maintenance on it.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

NEPMTBA said:


> Slower Human Powered Bikes damage trails as they grind the dirt more to propel themselves. HPBs slip the tires more that E bikes also. An e-bike has the traction and torque with less wheel slippage, due to added weight.
> 
> I can speak of unproven facts either way as can you.


 Maybe this needs to be it's own thread. And maybe of interest to plenty of trail users? Does a heavier bike have more impact, ridden for longer distances? Or a lighter mt bike have more chance to drift tires and skid? Just thinking out loud.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

Harding is a fun climb. Challenging??? To some. Once you do it a few times it's gets easier. I consider it a gateway trail.....it gets me up to 4 Corners/Main Divide. From there I can hit up Bedford to Indian Truck Trail or go over the Peak down to San Juan. 

I personally don't like descending Holy Jim. Too many hikers in the lower canyon, and too many blind turns.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

mtnbikej said:


> Last time I checked Holy Jim was a single track...and yes, our club is the one that does the maintenance on it.


You're right. Holy Jim is 100% singletrack, and other than the first part, which is a short climb (and which I walked with the rest of the folks I was with), it is also 100% downhill. Which means I wasn't pedaling with the motor. My bike was off the whole time from the top of Santiago Peak, all the way down, including the flat part going out to Live Oak. (the motor maxes out at about 21mph, so I prefered to keep it disengaged and off on downhills and flats).

So if you're suggesting that my 280lbs combined rider weight in 0% assist mode is somehow damaging to the Holy Jim Trail, I'd like to understand that a bit more. So please, elaborate.

And then assuming it makes sense, then maybe, yeah maybe "your club" (and if it's SHARE, then it's my club too...I pay dues to support it as well and attend SHARE sponsored events) should consider lobbying to prevent overweight people from using trails whether they be on foot or on bike??? Or maybe posting speed limits to ensure that bikes riding downhill don't use gravity to go too fast downhill?? How does that sound to you?


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

mtnbikej said:


> Harding is a fun climb. Challenging??? To some. Once you do it a few times it's gets easier. I consider it a gateway trail.....it gets me up to 4 Corners/Main Divide. From there I can hit up Bedford to Indian Truck Trail or go over the Peak down to San Juan.
> 
> I personally don't like descending Holy Jim. Too many hikers in the lower canyon, and too many blind turns.


I think you and I may have different expectations for what we consider "fun". No big deal. And challenging??? Yes, to me it is challenging. One of the most challenging climbs in the Santa Ana Mountains/Cleveland National Forest. Not from a skill set stand point, because from that point, its not challenging at all! It's boring as hell. But from a fitness stand point, yes I personally find it very challenging. Maybe not to folks that are fitter or thinner than I, but for me, yes, it's a challenge. But it's still a climb know I can do under my own power if I so choose.

But then again, if your interest is to shame or put me down because I am not as fit as other mountain bikers by suggesting that Harding is no challenge to you, that's ok. I can take it. I live in my own skin every day. hope it helps your self-esteem. But let's be real and call out your comments for what they are.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

leeboh said:


> Maybe this needs to be it's own thread. And maybe of interest to plenty of trail users? Does a heavier bike have more impact, ridden for longer distances? Or a lighter mt bike have more chance to drift tires and skid? Just thinking out loud.


 Just like you thinking allowed. I have no proof either way as to trail damage or wear. Lots of negative guys here who constantly spew their opinions with no proof of what they speak of. So, I decided to counter with my 2 cents worth view, of fake pennies. LOL


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

AGarcia said:


> I think you and I may have different expectations for what we consider "fun". No big deal. And challenging??? Yes, to me it is challenging. One of the most challenging climbs in the Santa Ana Mountains/Cleveland National Forest. Not from a skill set stand point, because from that point, its not challenging at all! It's boring as hell. But from a fitness stand point, yes I personally find it very challenging. Maybe not to folks that are fitter or thinner than I, but for me, yes, it's a challenge. But it's still a climb know I can do under my own power if I so choose.
> 
> But then again, if your interest is to shame or put me down because I am not as fit as other mountain bikers by suggesting that Harding is no challenge to you, that's ok. I can take it. I live in my own skin every day. hope it helps your self-esteem. But let's be real and call out your comments for what they are.


Not shaming....if you feel shamed, that's on you. just correcting your "I only rode forest fire roads".

And sharing my my experiences.

And no, not a member of SHARE.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

NEPMTBA said:


> I enjoyed your post very much...
> ...keep the good stuff coming!


Thanks! I'll probably ride the bike again at some point! I want to do more of the bigger rides with it to see what I can get out of it.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

leeboh said:


> Maybe this needs to be it's own thread. And maybe of interest to plenty of trail users? Does a heavier bike have more impact, ridden for longer distances? Or a lighter mt bike have more chance to drift tires and skid? Just thinking out loud.


IMBA already settled it,

The results of a trail study were released, revealing that e-mtbs had slightly more impact on the trail surface than mountain bikes.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

mtnbikej said:


> Not shaming....if you feel shamed, that's on you. just correcting your "I only rode forest fire roads".
> 
> And sharing my my experiences.
> 
> And no, not a member of SHARE.


Well then, if you're going to "correct" me, you should re-read to understanding that I did not state "I only rode forest roads" ("quote-end quote"). But maybe I should clarify my statement "I only rode fire fire roads and forest roads, which are also used used by off-road capable vehicles vehicles and motorcyles, uphill".... and to further clarify that the only instances that the Levo gave me an advantage over my 100% human powered rides was on the uphill on the fire roads.

And when you mention Holy Jim, given that you ride it, or at least maintain it even if you don't ride it, you know it's downhill. So were you suggesting that riding a Levo downhill is somehow more damaging to the trail than a 100% human powered bike? I presume you brought it up for a real reason, right? And not simply just to correct? Right?


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

tiretracks said:


> IMBA already settled it,
> 
> The results of a trail study were released, revealing that e-mtbs had slightly more impact on the trail surface than mountain bikes.


I haven't seen the final study. Do you have a link to the final study that you can share?

Here's some of what I found in the fact sheet related to the initial study.

"_FIELD STUDY HYPOTHESES AND INITIAL RESULTS
IMBA developed these hypotheses for this small initial
study (one site, with one set of environmental conditions):

• Physical impacts to trails from eMTBs will likely fall
somewhere between those caused by mountain bikes
and motorcycles. We expect that they will much more
closely resemble those of mountain bikes.

• We expect that eMTBs may lead to more soil
displacement under certain conditions, such as
through turns, including bermed turns; on ascents and
descents; and where there are abrupt changes in trail
conditions.

Initial observations suggest good support for the field
study hypotheses. We saw some differences between the
impacts of eMTBs and mountain bikes, particularly at turns
and grade changes. However, for the most part, the soil
impacts observed in this study were not greatly different
from those of mountain bikes, and were much less than those
associated with motorcycle use.

IMBA has not completed the analysis of study data, but
initial observations appear to support our hypotheses under
this limited set of conditions. The results of the land manager
survey and social impacts analysis are still being compiled.
The entire study will be completed by the end of 2015.
IMBA has worked very hard to define mountain biking as
non-motorized. IMBA recognizes that eMTBs, particularly
those equipped with Type 1 pedal-assist are substantially
different from other motorized uses, and may warrant a
separate category and new management strategies.
IMBA does not have an advocacy interest in the eMTB
study, but is leading this study as a respected partner of
land management agencies, to further knowledge about
recreational trails, and to inform future discussions with
members, chapters, land mangers, the bike industry, and
other user groups."
_
If your point of view is based off of this study that concludes that under a limited set of circumstances, an e-mtb may cause slightly more impact than a 100% human powered mtb, then that's fair enough.

I for one, am not concerned about the slight potential additional impact, based on my experience this weekend.

And further, a word of caution upon the reliance of this argument: "ban e-mtbs because they might, under a limited set of circumstances, be slightly more impactful than human powered mountain bikes." How much impact is too much impact? At what point to the hikers consider the additional impact associated with mountain biking in general to be intolerable to them, as compared to walking? Or to equestrians? Or what about using any of the mountain trials in general.. Maybe the trails shouldn't be disturbed at all? Maybe trails should go away to avoid any impacts to the forest? Where do you think that slippery slope ends?


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

I am just glad you used the e-bike setting on strava.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

Klurejr said:


> I am just glad you used the e-bike setting on strava.


Hahaha! Me too! Even though I knew I'd never be in danger of taking someone's KOM or Top 10, I'd still be pissed if someone claimed my KOM on an e-bike. Of course, I don't have any, but if I did, I'd be pissed. I also didn't want to skew my own data, because I don't consider riding the e-bike in the same league as riding my own bike as far as physical efforts go.


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## jsalas2 (Nov 29, 2008)

Just got back from a ride, Damn, all I can say is I had a blast, this bike is just fun to ride.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

jsalas2 said:


> Just got back from a ride, Damn, all I can say is I had a blast, this bike is just fun to ride.


Nice!


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## Bmiller71 (Oct 29, 2013)

Harryman said:


> Thanks for confirming that a normal guy on an ebike has twice the impact as they do on a mtb. Something for all of us that maintain the trails to keep in mind.


With that theory you should be riding a 26" bike from the 80's. I bet you ride further and longer on your current bike than on an old one! Every time bikes improve, get lighter, etc everyone goes further.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

AGarcia said:


> Thank you for shaming me. I needed that.


I'm not shaming anyone, the ebike proponent line is they have the same impact as an mtb, where even if you assume the per foot impact is the same, riding it twice as far is twice as much impact per ride. Two laps instead of one for example. It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things if it's a handful of riders, but if the numbers grow to become significant it will.



NEPMTBA said:


> I can speak of unproven facts either way as can you.


Unproven? It's simple math. More use = more damage. Every one of us causes trail damage, usually on a very minor scale that adds up over time. Dirt gets moved, rocks kicked loose, troughs deepened, grade dips compressed, etc. Trails change continually based on use. It'll mean more work for those who do it, I'd think the appropriate response, which I never see from ebikers is "hey, maybe we should help out, if I ride X farther than I used to, I should donate X more dollars or time to upkeep of the trails I love"



Bmiller71 said:


> With that theory you should be riding a 26" bike from the 80's. I bet you ride further and longer on your current bike than on an old one! Every time bikes improve, get lighter, etc everyone goes further.


No, I was way fitter in the 80's, I rode a lot more and farther back then. I'm an old unfit dude these days.

I've got nothing against technology, my bike now is way more fun and capable than in the old days. Motorized bikes aren't new either and will only get 3x more powerful than the emtbs you see out there today. To pretend that they are the same and have the same impact as my current bike isn't an honest way to asses future impact when the population is robust.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

tiretracks said:


> IMBA already settled it,
> 
> The results of a trail study were released, revealing that e-mtbs had slightly more impact on the trail surface than mountain bikes.


Holy ****, get the tissues out!


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## e-wa (May 4, 2008)

Been away for a bit and I come back to the same old crap, E-bikers post about their rides and fun bikes and the same grumpy old men ***** about it.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Of course both sides have their say here on mtbr!

But, more e bike folks are posting about great stories and good stuff also.

Ahh the tide goes out...
...the tide comes in!


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

Its always the same with the same ppl no matter what the OP is I enjoyed the post I like talking about our rides , but nooo every post gets to the e hate Harry, Tiretracks here's a pat on the head and a cookie now go play somewhere .


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

rider95 said:


> Its always the same with the same ppl no matter what the OP is I enjoyed the post I like talking about our rides , but nooo every post gets to the e hate Harry, Tiretracks here's a pat on the head and a cookie now go play somewhere .


Here's the T-shirt

The more e hate...
...the more e ride!


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

New "sticky" on the top of the e bike forum...
...from here on in we talk straight and respect all others.

If you truly have dedicated info concerning e bikes please post as usual, no thread interruptions or way off topic nonsense.


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## michaeldorian (Nov 17, 2006)

Thanks for posting this AGarcia! Very informative.


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