# Modern LD Stems



## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

I know that some of you guys are getting desperate for LD stems. I thought I would gather some information on modern resources and see if anybody will post pictures of theirs and what they think of them. I believe Joel will make it custom to suit your needs. Maybe somebody can confirm this?

1) First up is Joel from Clockwork Bikes. You can ask for it as a quill stem which is a huge plus to me and also the fact that he's doing it himself here in the US.

Clockwork Bikes : Options

Here's his flickr feed: https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ Nice planes!










2) Velo Orange was also doing some LD prototypes. Not sure if it ever made it into production but I like the idea that the stem passed the ISO MTB tests, 100,000 cycles of substantial load in two directions. Not sure who's making these for them.

The Velo ORANGE Blog: More Stem Stuff
Some highlights:


> We plan to offer it in black and chrome, and maybe a limited run in clear-coated raw finish.
> The steerer insertion length is about 65mm.
> We're designing a dedicated 1" quill adapter that we'll make if the stem sells well.
> The price should be about $80.
> The clamp is 31.8mm. Modern MTB and dirt drop bars use that size. It's simple enough to use a readily-available shim if you want to run 25.4mm or 26.0mm bars. We thought about making it smaller, but still can't get our negative shims to work.


The Velo ORANGE Blog: Long Tall Stem Prototypes










3) Crust Bikes (which sadly, practically, uses comic sans) has sold out of their pre orders for a LD stem. Anybody on the list? I wanna hear how it comes out. Profits from the stems go to Charlie's fund so thanks for that, Crust Bikes! 1 1/8" only for your modern bikes.

https://www.crustbikes.com/products/the-limp-dick-stem-pre-order


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Good stuff GOB, thanks for posting that. 
I'm getting close to placing an order for one actually...


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## unicrown junkie (Nov 12, 2009)

I still want one for my 91 Ibis SS, if I could only get my hands on just the pre bent main tube I could make my own no problem at work, grrr.

Saw the Velo Orange one a little while back and damn, it is half ass OK. That chrome looking one isn't my style. I wondered where all this was going and many thanks for the update too.


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

Sweet-thanks for the info GOB!


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

Looks like the VO ones are available for purchase. Two rises/extensions and three finish options:

Grand Cru Cigne Stem, Nickel - Threadless Stems - Stems - Components

I'd love the hear and see some photos from someone who's bought and tried one - especially if it is for use on a bike with a 1" threaded steerer. It sounds like VO have designed an expansion wedge adapter for that application, but haven't committed to releasing them yet.

So, for now, you'd have to get a typical quill-to-ahead adapter, and the pre-tension bolt would be discarded as superfluous. And then you'd (I'd) probably need a 31.8 to 25.4 bar clamp adapter, too. Maybe all those extra pieces aren't a big deal, but I'd love to see it in practice. I can't help but think that, at some point, it would be easier and almost as cheap just to get a custom from Joel. Still, it's great that someone is doing these affordably.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

I have one of Joels, it is fantastic. Very nice, very reasonable price wise for something very custom. I would highly recommend


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)




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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

iamkeith said:


> Looks like the VO ones are available for purchase. Two rises/extensions and three finish options:
> 
> Grand Cru Cigne Stem, Nickel - Threadless Stems - Stems - Components
> 
> ...


Thanks for the heads up! I just ordered a couple. Can't beat the price.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

AKamp said:


>


Nice. how wide a tire can you fit in there?


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> Nice. how wide a tire can you fit in there?


Not sure. I generally run tires in the 2.25 range. I generally don't like big heavy tires. Could probably do a 2.7 ish I would imagine on the rear???


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

*Velo-Orange LD*

I picked up one of the Velo-Orange stems for my commuter/around town bike. Running original WTB Dirt Drops w/ Campy levers and so far everything seems like it is in the right place. Looks pretty good too! (Way better than the ridiculous spacer stack and +35 deg stem I was running before) For the price I think it is an unconditional winner.





































PS: I need to throw longer cables/housing on as it brought the bars up another inch from my previous setup.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

apat13 said:


> I picked up one of the Velo-Orange stems for my commuter/around town bike. Running original WTB Dirt Drops w/ Campy levers and so far everything seems like it is in the right place. Looks pretty good too! (Way better than the ridiculous spacer stack and +35 deg stem I was running before) For the price I think it is an unconditional winner.
> 
> PS: I need to throw longer cables/housing on as it brought the bars up another inch from my previous setup.


Looks right at home on that bike. Looks like you could loose one of the spacers you have in there too ya? Top of bars to saddle height is almost even...lowering the stem the 1/2"-3/4" could do the trick.


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

Rumpfy said:


> Looks right at home on that bike. Looks like you could loose one of the spacers you have in there too ya? Top of bars to saddle height is almost even...lowering the stem the 1/2"-3/4" could do the trick.


That spacer is also a bell mount (also from Velo-Orange)--it was fine when I had like 3" of spacers with the previous stem, but it is a little high with the LD. Flip side is I have discovered I actually use the bell more than I though I would and like where it is. Aesthetically it would prob look cleaner without it.


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## kpomtb (Feb 2, 2006)

This one is from Clockwork. Reasonable price and turnaround for custom.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

Velo Orange Cigne Stem w/70mm extension w/ 25.4-31.8 stem shims and a 25.4 Salsa Woodchipper on my DB Overdrive. I swapped the stock threaded fork/headset for a Surly Cross Check fork and FSA headset. I know, I'm straying from the VRC, but it's the most comfortable the bike has ever been with drops. It does limit the front tire clearance to about 45c, but now it just matches the rear!


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

kpomtb said:


> This one is from Clockwork. Reasonable price and turnaround for custom.


Nice Coconino! Let's see more of that. Is there a max height that Joel will do? I'm just wondering why have spacers when it's custom?


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## kpomtb (Feb 2, 2006)

girlonbike said:


> Nice Coconino! Let's see more of that. Is there a max height that Joel will do? I'm just wondering why have spacers when it's custom?


he would have made it taller, i may replace it at some point. I don't love the spacers, but didn't want to cut the steerer again, and it is inserted about as far as I feel comfortable. Geo on the bike was loosely based off old MB1s. Does duty on gravel, cross, some xc, and road.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

That's a sweet bike. Garro was stoked with the way it came out and really enjoyed building it.


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## super_stein (Mar 2, 2004)

Your Ted is awesome! Interesting bronze color.


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

super_stein said:


> Your Ted is awesome! Interesting bronze color.


Thanks! Not sure if you remember, but I am the guy who bought the two ted's from you a few years back--the blue one with the color matched judy and the orange one with the headshock.


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## super_stein (Mar 2, 2004)

apat13 said:


> Thanks! Not sure if you remember, but I am the guy who bought the two ted's from you a few years back--the blue one with the color matched judy and the orange one with the headshock.


I remember. I was up to 5 Ted's at that point, now just one.


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## Wissahickon (Feb 9, 2015)

*VO Cigne Stem*

Im really grateful for having a company like Velo Orange to create these Cigne Stems for people like me who would probably would never find a vintage LD stem, let alone afford one!


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## Wissahickon (Feb 9, 2015)

Took the Bontrager out with the VO LD stem and noticed I'm getting a little too much slippage where the stem meets my adaptor. What adapters are you using? I am going from 1" to 1 1/8" threadless. When I stand in front of the bike with two legs holding the wheel, I can move the stem/handlebars in the opposite direction. Everything is clamped as tight as I can get it.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

Wissahickon said:


> Took the Bontrager out with the VO LD stem and noticed I'm getting a little too much slippage where the stem meets my adaptor. What adapters are you using? I am going from 1" to 1 1/8" threadless. When I stand in front of the bike with two legs holding the wheel, I can move the stem/handlebars in the opposite direction. Everything is clamped as tight as I can get it.
> 
> View attachment 1100476


Thanks for posting your experience and pictures. Unfortunately that's what I was afraid of. You might try the nitto adapters which have a good knurled surface. If it doesn't work, I can't imagine what would. You should mention it to VO and ask what their adapter plans are. BTW, did you just remove the pre-tension bolt that came with the stem?


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## Wissahickon (Feb 9, 2015)

Hey Keith,
I wrote VO and I'm waiting for a response. I saw that Nitto adapter but it was much more expensive than I wanted to pay. It does indeed look like it could work. 

I just removed the pre-tension bolt and I'm only using the single bolt clamp at the bottom. It seems like it clamps pretty well but the two slippery surfaces of the adapter and stem allow the stem to rotate. I just placed an order for Park Tool SAC-2 assembly lube which is supposed to add grit when assembling slippery alloy or carbon parts. I never used this before but it's supposed to help spinning seatposts, etc. Will report back when it arrives. If that doesn't work, I'll try hairspray or engineer something...I really love the stem and want it to work!


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## LeeDumler (May 23, 2014)

I've used carbon assembly compound on many a slippery seatpost with great success. Hopefully it works as well on the stem.


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## Wissahickon (Feb 9, 2015)

LeeDumler said:


> I've used carbon assembly compound on many a slippery seatpost with great success. Hopefully it works as well on the stem.


Good news, it worked. No more slipping stem!


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## Austin Dave (Jul 7, 2010)

I have wanted to monstercross an old hybrid for a while. The new VO stem really helped kick that project along. I'm still sorting it but it's fun so far.


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## Mr. Claus (Oct 5, 2015)

AKamp said:


>


AKamp, what shifter mounts are you using on that nice steed? Can't tell but they're not WTBs, are they readily available and if so, what's your opinion of them? Cheers


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

I made the mounts. Took about a day of thinking about it and about a hour of hacking them together. They work pretty well but the rear one the shifter rotates on the mount a little. I think a dab of jb weld would fix that.


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## Mr. Claus (Oct 5, 2015)

AKamp, thanks for the reply, if I'm less than thrilled with barcons I'll try that route, I like tinkering, but don't have the space for a proper shop/shed so it'll be time to visit a friends garage.


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## CObiker123 (Oct 13, 2014)

An LD example from Crust. Love the position it puts me in, I just wish that it had a 2 bolt removable face plate for easier installation. Once it's on there though, its good to go. I have about 350 miles with it on everything from road to single track and rocks and it's been awesome.


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## Mr. Claus (Oct 5, 2015)

girlonbike said:


> I know that some of you guys are getting desperate for LD stems. I thought I would gather some information on modern resources and see if anybody will post pictures of theirs and what they think of them. I believe Joel will make it custom to suit your needs. Maybe somebody can confirm this?
> 
> 1) First up is Joel from Clockwork Bikes. You can ask for it as a quill stem which is a huge plus to me and also the fact that he's doing it himself here in the US.
> 
> ...


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## CObiker123 (Oct 13, 2014)

The schematic on the crust site is accurate, it's one of the thumbnails on the product page and yes, what is above looks to be taken right from the site. I just received, what I believe was the last black one from Crust the other night. I am swapping it out for the chrome one that you see on my Kona in the above post. I really wanted black, but they were only offering chrome when i built the bike several months ago. I have a chrome one if anyone is interested. If you are looking to get your bars up there, you should enjoy it.


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## Mr. Claus (Oct 5, 2015)

Ahh thanks, good to know I think it should work out on the Phoenix, I too was looking for black, but as they say about the early bird. If I am too put off by the clear coat, it'd be relatively easy to get it powder coated black. Cheers


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## CObiker123 (Oct 13, 2014)

I actually really like the clear coat. I love seeing the welds contrast with the steel. Post a pic when you get it mounted.


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## Mr. Claus (Oct 5, 2015)

*Crust clea coat*

The Crust came in quite quickly. The brazing is very smooth and pretty. The build is far from complete, but from an initial comparison to my other dirt drop bike it looks like it will put me in the correct position. The build will be mostly black (fork, wheelset, hoods, tape) and I hope the clear coat meshes well with the overall bike, but if it's horrid I'll have it powder coated black, we shall see. A very reasonable price and the profits are still going to the Charlie Cunningham fund!


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## Linoleum (Aug 25, 2008)

Those VO stems wishlist only now. Bummer!


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## GrumpyOne (Jan 7, 2004)

Linoleum said:


> Those VO stems wishlist only now. Bummer!


From their blog it looks like more Cigne Stems are coming in April.

-jw


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

Anyone know how much steerer tube a VO Cigne Stem can accommodate? I know it needs at least 5.5cm of steerer, but what's the max? I'd like to try one of these stems with Cowchippers on my Ogre but don't want to cut the steerer tube down further.


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## caemis (Dec 12, 2015)

How much longer is the steerer you have? I mean you could use some spacer beneath the stem and on a certain point a longer screw. Maybe you can get a better fitting fork for test riding the stem or get a cheap high rise stem which you can put on some spacer to get the bars where they would be with the Cigne without using spacer...


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

The Cigne stem has a washer welded into it that acts as the stop for the stem bolt. The washer is 2.6 inches measured from the bottom of the stem with the depth gage on my calipers. That is the max steerer you could have unless you use spacers. See pic.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

1 cog frog said:


> The Cigne stem has a washer welded into it that acts as the stop for the stem bolt. The washer is 2.6 inches measured from the bottom of the stem with the depth gage on my calipers. That is the max steerer you could have unless you use spacers. See pic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! That's what I was looking for. I'll have to rethink this project as I'm reluctant to trim my steerer tube.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

Spacers solve that problem. How much more steerer are we talking?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

The total steerer length above the headset is about 9.5cm so I'd only need 3cm of spacers. Not that might put the bars too high. The stem would be going on an XL Ogre which is a tad big. If I do end up pursing this set-up, I'll be sure to post a picture here.I'd be using Cowchipper bars. I tend to ride more dirt roads than singletrack but I'd be fine with drops on the trails I ride, especially on a bike with big tires like the Ogre.


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

*Think differenter!*

I did end up ordering the stem from VO. We'll see if I go through with the swap. With the steerer uncut I think the bars will be too high but I'm reluctant to cut the steerer until I know if the set-up will work for me. This could wind up being a costly little experiment. Good thing I'm getting ready to make a parts purge.

I came across these creations in my search. The first in an XL Troll with the LD stem as found on the Yellow Bicycle Haus IG stream. The second is an Ogre with a Crust Towel Rack (formerly Leather Bar). The stem is... welll... unique to say the least and opposite of an LD. Also found on IG.


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## caemis (Dec 12, 2015)

The "unique" stem and as it seems the bike as well where made by Rick Hunter - Hunter Cycles

This is my setup with the VO LD stem:


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

caemis said:


> The "unique" stem and as it seems the bike as well where made by Rick Hunter - Hunter Cycles
> 
> This is my setup with the VO LD stem:


Looks nice.

The stem was made by Rick but the frame is an Ogre with a Fargo fork if I'm not mistaken. A better view of the entire contraption.


__
http://instagr.am/p/Be1Q4PHgoeM/


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

*Rolling.*

So it works great. Haven't ridden singletrack yet but did some steep climbing and descending on dirt roads and it feels great. Feels natural in the drops which is the idea, right. On top of the hoods feels odd. I just need to remember I'm riding this as more of a dirt drop mountain bike than a monster cross.

The Cowchipper bars are great but I can see playing around and maybe trying some Woodchippers or Soma June Bug.


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## caemis (Dec 12, 2015)

Looking good! I was out on the weekend as well:


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## dfltroll (Nov 3, 2005)

Finally got out for a great ride on singletrack with this set-up. It worked quite well. In fact, the set-up was way more comfortable and capable than I anticipated. Far more than some temporary novelty set-up. I'd still like to get a stem with just a tad less extension although the same rise. We'll see.


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## Woodpuppy (May 10, 2014)

I’m very seriously thinking about ordering the VO stem and something like the Ritchey venturemax or far bar. The intended recipient is a 62cm 2000 model Bianchi steel cross bike that’s been doing duty as a single speed / flat bar kid tractor. Is anyone doing this to cross bikes? Closest thing I’ve seen is the dirt dropped hybrid, looks pretty good to me. Worst case if I don’t like it, I’ll put the setup on my ‘97 mojo.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

Woodpuppy said:


> I'm very seriously thinking about ordering the VO stem and something like the Ritchey venturemax or far bar. The intended recipient is a 62cm 2000 model Bianchi steel cross bike that's been doing duty as a single speed / flat bar kid tractor. Is anyone doing this to cross bikes? Closest thing I've seen is the dirt dropped hybrid, looks pretty good to me. Worst case if I don't like it, I'll put the setup on my '97 mojo.


Aesthetics and fit are pretty personal, so probably only you can say whether it would work for your needs.

The traditional/original dirt drop bars that were developed along with the LD stem were really intended as having a single grip position - that being the drops. The brake levers could only be reached from there, and the top/ramps of the bar were too narrow/sloped to be useful.

Most on this forum are concerned with replicating that original configuration. As many have noted, it usually looks most authentic or correct on on a bike with a sloped top tube. Compared to most mountain bikes, I would assume your cross bike would have a shorter top tube and that it is basically level, and that it would have originally had more of a road bike-like drop bar with multiple grip positions. But that doesn't mean your idea couldn't work - just that it is up to you.

If your intent is to get the bars up higher so that it's more useful as a runabout kid-hauler, without having to be hunched over and cranking hard in order to be comfortable (which is a perfectly valid goal), just be very careful in your selection of the handlebar.

After a very long drought in offerings, the past few years have brought many new 'dirt drop' bars to the market - but they are probably not equal. I haven't used either of the ones you mention. If you get one that doesn't have a good hand position on the straight top section and/or ramps and/or hoods (like many "traditional" ones didn't), then you are right back where you started in terms of fit, and all that extra stem height doesn't gain you anything over your flat bar or a normal road bar on a shorter stem.


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## Woodpuppy (May 10, 2014)

Thanks for the response! The cross bike is as you described, shortish and level top tube. My goal is getting the primary hand position up just above saddle height, the extra higher hand positions would be secondary I guess. I’d like to try the drops as primary position. I intensely dislike the “normal” road bar setup, which is why I’ve been trying all sorts of mtb bars on it.

As to bar types, I’ve been reading everything I can on the new choices, including Guitar Ted’s blog. Ultimately I’ll just have to take the plunge, but now is the time with an affordable LD stem option that I could use on all my current bikes! 

If it turns out that this setup works on the ‘97 ibis mojo, that frame needs a paint job anyway so I’d get the stem painted to match. That would be pretty incredible. 

It may also be that I need to let go of the Bianchi in favor of something with different geo. Must be steel though 😎


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## Woodpuppy (May 10, 2014)

Those trolls above look the business.


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## luwabra (Jan 22, 2018)

*Walter Croll 26''*

been following this thread for a while and finally got my fork built so here we go. comments? suggestions?

NOS water croll lugged mtb frame, custom fork done by Erik Noren at peacock groove to put the pieces together some 20 ish years later.

its obv in the build stage as im waiting on a missing headset piece. ss or 1x10 friction brown tape brown cables


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## fatchanceti (Jan 12, 2005)

Pretty happy with the Cigne. I've had it a few months now.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

Very nice #fatchanceti


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## maatchew (Apr 15, 2021)

girlonbike said:


> I know that some of you guys are getting desperate for LD stems. I thought I would gather some information on modern resources and see if anybody will post pictures of theirs and what they think of them. I believe Joel will make it custom to suit your needs. Maybe somebody can confirm this?
> 
> 1) First up is Joel from Clockwork Bikes. You can ask for it as a quill stem which is a huge plus to me and also the fact that he's doing it himself here in the US.
> 
> ...


sadly is the comic sans of adverbs


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