# Brake lever and rear hub upgrades for Hotrock 16.



## CJH (Apr 21, 2004)

My five year son rides a 2013 Hotrock 16. We are going to pass it onto his four year old brother and want to make some changes.

I just put a Tektro caliper brake on it. The rims are still super slick with paint or anodization but it seems like it will be powerful enough for the steep hills in our neighborhood and for the trail riding we do.

Both of my boys have tried it and they both seem to have trouble reaching the lever. Here is a picture of the lever in the brake-open position:









Now bear with me. A bike mechanic I am not so I'm not sure if I have the terminology down.

I'd like to either get a lever with less throw or modify the one we have to get it closer to the bar. My first thought is I could thread some sort of spacer over the cable so the lever would be closer to the bar. Spacers that would go in them space where the exposed cable is pictured here:









Of course if I'm overlooking some other way to adjust this, please let me know.

Now that we have the brake on we'd like to get rid of the low quality rear coaster brake hub. I'm open to suggestions for either buying a whole new rear wheel or a new freewheel/hub and having laced to the same rim.

I appreciate any suggestions.


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## joe_bloe (Nov 18, 2010)

If the lever doesn't have a reach adjuster (usually a 2mm alllen screw in the lever assembly), replace it with one that does. Avid makes one, I think it's called the FR5.

Sent from my CrystalQuadCore using Tapatalk 4


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## chad1376 (Dec 25, 2011)

Hard to tell from the photo, but the reach adjustment looks like it might be here:



One thing to be careful of, when you shorten the lever reach, you are also shortening the available cable pull. Be sure that you are able to lock the wheels before the lever hits the grips. If you son is doing 4 finger braking, it's probably a little less of a worry, but if he brakes with two fingers, the lever might hit his other two fingers before full brakes can be applied. You may need adjust the brakes so the pads are closer to the rim, but be sure the wheel is true, and be careful they don't rub.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

I can't find the part number, but Tektro makes a set of short-reach brake levers that are sized nicely for little hands. They came on my Spawn Gremlin (and I believe are on the Banshee as well). I'll see if I can get a part number for you.

EDIT: They are Tektro JL 350s.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

I've also heard of people using a cable-tie to bring the lever in closer.


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

You've hit the same problem I did.
Unable to get the reach close enough for little hands, and then when you do you may find they still havent got the strength to pull the levers and get over the friction in the cables and rear brake calliper.

The brakes shown should have the 2mm allen key adjuster, but you will also need to adjust the spring on the calliper as it will be too stiff.

Alternatively switch the rear hub and go to a disc setup.
Bit more expensive but you can transplant the discs to a larger bike when the time comes, and you know they will easily be able to operate.
Look for brakes that have good reach adjustment. Avids work see here http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/hotrock-16-build-thank-you-850533.html


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## hoffsta (Aug 17, 2010)

evandy said:


> I can't find the part number, but Tektro makes a set of short-reach brake levers that are sized nicely for little hands. They came on my Spawn Gremlin (and I believe are on the Banshee as well). I'll see if I can get a part number for you.
> 
> EDIT: They are Tektro JL 350s.


I can't find any info on the JL 350 levers. Does anyone have more info on these?


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

I can't find the JL350 levers but I have just ordered Tektro TS325A Levers. I will let you know what they are like when they arrive.


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## Demo9 (Nov 20, 2006)

Here is the brake lever you need to use.

Tektro 316AG Mini BMX Right Brake Lever Flat Bar BMX Mountain Use | eBay

When you get the lever, go to the hardware store and purchase a longer set screw.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Thanks, I looked at that one but can't find it in the UK. If what I've got doesn't work I'll order one - still works out fairly cheap even with postage.

Demo9, quick question, how old/tall was your son when he started riding a 16 inch bike? I'm trying to figure out which is better - A small bike that is easy for the kid to throw around, or a bigger bike with 16 inch wheels to help roll over all the roots and stones on our trails. I'm in the process of building up a 16 inch bike but it is going to be ready too quickly...


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

hoffsta said:


> I can't find any info on the JL 350 levers. Does anyone have more info on these?


Here's a picture of them... According to the stamp on them they are "JL 350" but I agree that I can't find any info on them. As you can see, the entire lever has been re-engineered so that you get a full range of motion and still have the lever relatively close to the bar. My 3yo (now 4) has had no trouble with these at all.


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## hoffsta (Aug 17, 2010)

Demo9, Thanks for the link. These will work on the stock bars (22.2mm). I was thinking of changing the stem and bars as well. Is there an equivalent reach brake that mounts on 25.4mm?

Alternatively, is there a source for 22.2mm aluminum low riser bars?

EDIT, nevermind, brain fart on the 22.2 vs 25.4...


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## Garasaki (Apr 7, 2010)

Demo9 said:


> Here is the brake lever you need to use.
> 
> Tektro 316AG Mini BMX Right Brake Lever Flat Bar BMX Mountain Use | eBay
> 
> ...


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## Demo9 (Nov 20, 2006)

ProjectMayhem said:


> Thanks, I looked at that one but can't find it in the UK. If what I've got doesn't work I'll order one - still works out fairly cheap even with postage.
> 
> Demo9, quick question, how old/tall was your son when he started riding a 16 inch bike? I'm trying to figure out which is better - A small bike that is easy for the kid to throw around, or a bigger bike with 16 inch wheels to help roll over all the roots and stones on our trails. I'm in the process of building up a 16 inch bike but it is going to be ready too quickly...


My son was 3.5 when he started riding a 16" bike. He is currently 6 almost 7 and still rides a 16" bike.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Garasaki said:


> I've done the long set screw thing, which helped emensely, but caliper brakes on a hotrock 16 still arent very effective. I really wish they'd set this bike up with v brake bosses.


Thus the Spawn Banshee. Unfortunately, that's a completely different bike and won't help with the one you have.


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## Billinsd (May 10, 2012)

I have done the same thing on my boy's 16" Hotrock. The problem I have is with the side pull calipers and my son is not strong enough to stop the bike. So, he is using his coaster brake. Any suggestions?
Thanks
Bill


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Thanks demo. When my son's 16 inch is finished I will see which bike suits him best. Not in a hurry to get him on the 16 if the 12 is easier for him to ride - he isn't 3 yet even though he already has more than a year of riding a pedal bike under his belt!


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Here are some clamps that I found after searching for quite a bit of time. They weren't exactly cheap (around $65) and I had to supply the bosses, but they allowed me to throw some brakes I had laying around on my son's Hotrock 16. I used an LX lever that I had and adjusted the set screw all the way in. He has no problem chirping the tire by pulling the lever, and I've been teaching him to modulate. 

Evolutionbikeco.com is where I got the v-brake adapter clamps.

Sorry about the crummy phone pics. Let me know if some better ones are needed.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

That looks interesting. Is it like this sort of thing Buy Identiti Rebate Rim Brake Adaptor at Tredz Bikes. £22.48 with free UK delivery

The Tektro TS325A Levers I ordered have arrived and seem to adjust far enough in. I will be putting the stock side pull brakes back on for now so will test soon if my son can use them well enough.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Yeah, sort of. Those, and others like them are made to go around fork legs and are sized accordingly. Seems to be a trials thing. The ones I got are for seatstays.


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## Billinsd (May 10, 2012)

jochribs said:


> Here are some clamps that I found after searching for quite a bit of time. They weren't exactly cheap (around $65) and I had to supply the bosses, but they allowed me to throw some brakes I had laying around on my son's Hotrock 16. I used an LX lever that I had and adjusted the set screw all the way in. He has no problem chirping the tire by pulling the lever, and I've been teaching him to modulate.
> 
> Evolutionbikeco.com is where I got the v-brake adapter clamps.
> 
> Sorry about the crummy phone pics. Let me know if some better ones are needed.


Awesome!! Did they fit you Hotrock, or did you use rubber spacers? Thanks Bill


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

jochribs said:


> Here are some clamps that I found after searching for quite a bit of time. They weren't exactly cheap (around $65) and I had to supply the bosses, but they allowed me to throw some brakes I had laying around on my son's Hotrock 16. I used an LX lever that I had and adjusted the set screw all the way in. He has no problem chirping the tire by pulling the lever, and I've been teaching him to modulate.
> 
> Evolutionbikeco.com is where I got the v-brake adapter clamps.
> 
> Sorry about the crummy phone pics. Let me know if some better ones are needed.


 The V-brake boss adapters seem like an expensive solution. Seems like it would be much easier to just add BMX sidepull calipers, the hotrock 16 is afterall essentially a BMX style bike. Even the cheap stampted steel sidepull brake that came on my daughters hand-me-down heavy department store 16" bike worked fine, I would imagine that using decent quality BMX parts would be even better.
Odyssey 1999 Brake Kit at Danscomp


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Billinsd said:


> Awesome!! Did they fit you Hotrock, or did you use rubber spacers? Thanks Bill


Ha! Thanks for the stoke! Me and my son are happy with them too. Yeah, they fit just fine. The diameter of the stays was just right for the clamps. The guy supplies some rubber spacers with them, the type you probably already have from reflectors or light kits, but on the Hotrock they are totally uneeded. I opted to run the pads almost all the way down in the caliper slots so that I could get the clamps that small amount higher up the stays. Also took the chain guard of so there was no interference there.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

GrayJay said:


> The V-brake boss adapters seem like an expensive solution. Seems like it would be much easier to just add BMX sidepull calipers, the hotrock 16 is afterall essentially a BMX style bike. Even the cheap stampted steel sidepull brake that came on my daughters hand-me-down heavy department store 16" bike worked fine, I would imagine that using decent quality BMX parts would be even better.
> Odyssey 1999 Brake Kit at Danscomp


Hey if that's your thing I'm happy for you. I'll wager all day long that what I put on my little man's bike works volumes better than the sidepull kit from Dan's. I'm not into being frugal with my son's introduction to, and support of our shared hobby...riding. If I were, I wouldn't have bought him a Hotrock in the first place. Plus, I had parts from older bikes just laying around in bins. $65 on dialing some brakes for my son is something I won't think twice on. Thanks for your opinion though...

...Also, not one BMX bike (decent) that you can get these days uses sidepulls. The only reason Dan's even stocks those things is to: 1)Supply brakes with the completes they sell that come brakeless, probably due to law, and 2) To be available to go on the few brakeless frames they sell that don't even have the removable U-brake caliper bosses brazed on.

Those brakes you posted might be made by Odyssey (a great company, I have many Odyssey parts on my own dirtjumping bike) but they aren't quality BMX parts by todays standards. If that were the case, there wouldn't be U-brakes (990's and the many variants) of which are vastly superior. Try doing a fufanu with a sidepull and let me know what happens.


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## Billinsd (May 10, 2012)

jochribs said:


> Ha! Thanks for the stoke! Me and my son are happy with them too. Yeah, they fit just fine. The diameter of the stays was just right for the clamps. The guy supplies some rubber spacers with them, the type you probably already have from reflectors or light kits, but on the Hotrock they are totally uneeded. I opted to run the pads almost all the way down in the caliper slots so that I could get the clamps that small amount higher up the stays. Also took the chain guard of so there was no interference there.


Are you still running a coaster brake or a free hub wheel? Thanks Bill


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## Billinsd (May 10, 2012)

jochribs said:


> Hey if that's your thing I'm happy for you. I'll wager all day long that what I put on my little man's bike works volumes better than the sidepull kit from Dan's. I'm not into being frugal with my son's introduction to, and support of our shared hobby...riding. If I were, I wouldn't have bought him a Hotrock in the first place. Plus, I had parts from older bikes just laying around in bins. $65 on dialing some brakes for my son is something I won't think twice on. Thanks for your opinion though...
> 
> ...Also, not one BMX bike (decent) that you can get these days uses sidepulls. The only reason Dan's even stocks those things is to: 1)Supply brakes with the completes they sell that come brakeless, probably due to law, and 2) To be available to go on the few brakeless frames they sell that don't even have the removable U-brake caliper bosses brazed on.
> 
> Those brakes you posted might be made by Odyssey (a great company, I have many Odyssey parts on my own dirtjumping bike) but they aren't quality BMX parts by todays standards. If that were the case, there wouldn't be U-brakes (990's and the many variants) of which are vastly superior. Try doing a fufanu with a sidepull and let me know what happens.


I got a side pull on my son's hotrock and it is terrible. I looked into the options at Danscomp and the sales rep said they do not work well. $60.00 is nothing to sneeze at, but it is worth it to me. Thanks Bill


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Billinsd said:


> Are you still running a coaster brake or a free hub wheel? Thanks Bill


I'm still running the coaster wheel. I wanted him have that as a back up as he got used to making the hand brake the sole habit. He's definitely ready for it to be gone, but I'm also busy dialing in a Zaskar 20 that I just got for him, so I am a little occupied with that. If I could find a quick hub to lace in I might do it though.



Billinsd said:


> I got a side pull on my son's hotrock and it is terrible. I looked into the options at Danscomp and the sales rep said they do not work well. $60.00 is nothing to sneeze at, but it is worth it to me. Thanks Bill


Exactamundo... To me, they're like beating a nail in with a rock, because the rock costs less than a hammer. Not to mention that the Avid Mags that I put on for him paired up with that old LX lever is extremely smooth and easy for him to pull. Before I set them up I had initially worried that hand brakes might have more tension than he could consistently and safely deal with, but he's good and loves them.

Good luck man, post up if you get them or find some other ideas. I definitely have no regrets with them. Definitely run the housing under, up and around like I did with the 135 degree noodle. Keeps the housing away from the foot on the upswing.


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## Billinsd (May 10, 2012)

I just got it all installed, and it is great!!! I replaced the coaster brake wheel, with a free hub, and my son can work the brake well and stop better than ever!! Thanks again!!!! Bill


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## fireswamp (Nov 4, 2013)

Those seat-stay V-brake brackets look great!! Thanks for posting. My son is riding a not-yet-modified 16" hotrock, he's ready for hand brakes and freewheel, and I'm in the planning stages for where to go with it.

Have any of you found a solution for mounting a front v-brake on the hotrock 16? I've seen demo9 and others' disc solutions, but has anyone come up with a way to mount a v-brake onto a 16" wheel fork?


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

if you really want to go down the route of v-brakes up front then you have 3 options.

1. Get a machine shop to make up something similar to the seat stay bracket
2. Get a bike Builder to weld on brake bosses
3. hunt around for a 16" fork with the bosses already fitted (some of the cheap bikes have them and some of the recumbent guys also use them) so look out on ebay or at salvage


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Billinsd said:


> I just got it all installed, and it is great!!! I replaced the coaster brake wheel, with a free hub, and my son can work the brake well and stop better than ever!! Thanks again!!!! Bill


Awesome Bill! Not sure how I missed this post, looks like you did it two weeks ago. What hub did you use?


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

fireswamp said:


> Those seat-stay V-brake brackets look great!! Thanks for posting. My son is riding a not-yet-modified 16" hotrock, he's ready for hand brakes and freewheel, and I'm in the planning stages for where to go with it.
> 
> Have any of you found a solution for mounting a front v-brake on the hotrock 16? I've seen demo9 and others' disc solutions, but has anyone come up with a way to mount a v-brake onto a 16" wheel fork?


There are clamps like those that Bill and I have used on the stays that are made for the fork legs. They have a larger inner diameter. I had come across them when searching for the seatstay ones I ended up getting. If I remember they were on a trials site. I'll try and find them and post a link for you.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Identiti Bikes -Forks - Rebate V-adaptors - Product Information

also look for DMR Trailblade 2 v brake clamps, and Pace rc31 brake mounting kit.

Not sure if these are going to work on this fork or if they are a good idea. Use your own judgement


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

jochribs said:


> Identiti Bikes -Forks - Rebate V-adaptors - Product Information
> 
> also look for DMR Trailblade 2 v brake clamps, and Pace rc31 brake mounting kit.
> 
> Not sure if these are going to work on this fork or if they are a good idea. Use your own judgement


I was looking at these for if the side-pull brakes aren't effective. I was also looking at a used fork but most of them have a 1inch threaded steerer.


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## Billinsd (May 10, 2012)

jochribs said:


> Awesome Bill! Not sure how I missed this post, looks like you did it two weeks ago. What hub did you use?


It was a complete wheel I bought from Demo9. It reads Alex ZX rims 1000 305x20 and the hub looks like an IL joytec


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

ProjectMayhem said:


> I was looking at these for if the side-pull brakes aren't effective. I was also looking at a used fork but most of them have a 1inch threaded steerer.


I wonder if there are any 1' to 1-1/8 adapting headsets? Never looked for any of these sorts of things or came across them back in my shop days, but it does seem feasible that someone makes one. Sort of like how there are 1-1/8" to 1-1/2" adapting crown races for going from straight to tapered...?


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Thanks, that does seem like it should be an available solution.


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## fireswamp (Nov 4, 2013)

jochribs said:


> Identiti Bikes -Forks - Rebate V-adaptors - Product Information
> 
> also look for DMR Trailblade 2 v brake clamps, and Pace rc31 brake mounting kit.
> 
> Not sure if these are going to work on this fork or if they are a good idea. Use your own judgement


Thanks for the links/info.


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## CJH (Apr 21, 2004)

Billinsd said:


> I just got it all installed, and it is great!!! I replaced the coaster brake wheel, with a free hub, and my son can work the brake well and stop better than ever!! Thanks again!!!! Bill


After watching my five year old ride the bike since I started this thread I think I'm going to give these clamp on V brake adaptors a try. We live in a very hilly area and the single caliper brake in the back just isn't cutting it. They're expensive but I'll make sure they end up in a good home when my kid is done with the bike. I'll try to move the caliper brake to the front. It looks like it can be mounted to the fork.

How much less friction does the freehub have than the stock coaster brake hub? I'm guessing it's significant?

It looks like you took the chain guard off. Are you still running the stock cranks and chain ring?

Interestingly enough, my four year old getting this bike is also a Spider Man fan. In fact I'm going to attempt to use aerosol Plasti Dip to make the frame, fork and bars blue while leaving some areas of the red exposed. At least that's the plan.

Lastly, I assume you bought the rear wheel from the Demo9 who posted in this thread? Do you know if he built it? [Demo9, feel free to chime in.]


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## Billinsd (May 10, 2012)

CJH said:


> After watching my five year old ride the bike since I started this thread I think I'm going to give these clamp on V brake adaptors a try. We live in a very hilly area and the single caliper brake in the back just isn't cutting it. They're expensive but I'll make sure they end up in a good home when my kid is done with the bike. I'll try to move the caliper brake to the front. It looks like it can be mounted to the fork.
> 
> How much less friction does the freehub have than the stock coaster brake hub? I'm guessing it's significant?
> 
> ...


No, the clamp won't work in the front. Yes, the free hub has significant less resistance. Yep, running stock crank and chain ring. Yes same Demo9, I'd PM him. Bill


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## CJH (Apr 21, 2004)

Billinsd said:


> No, the clamp won't work in the front. Yes, the free hub has significant less resistance. Yep, running stock crank and chain ring. Yes same Demo9, I'd PM him. Bill


Sorry, I meant moving the caliper brake currently on the rear up the front and then using the clamps like you used on the back for a V brake. An odd setup but we already have the caliper brake so I might as well get the kid used to using two brakes.

I'll send Demo9 a PM.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

I have seen some dual pivot brakes that are sized for adult touring bikes. They use a single bolt attachment like the BMX side pulls. I know from road bikes that they should be able to generate plenty of stopping power. Any reason these aren't on the table? Seems like a simple solution to this. I have a used Hotrock 16 from eBay coming to replace my 3.5 y/o's HR 12". 
Here is an example
Tektro R556 Long-Reach Road Caliper Set with Cartridge Pads from BikeBling.com
I think a longer bolt on the pads with a bit of shimming (using the concave/convex washer sets used on avid disk brake calipers) would allow the needed tire clearance. 
Anything I am missing with this? I intend to try it once the bike gets here and I can measure the reach from holes to rims.
Scott


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

I tried something very similar but found that even softening the spring in them didn't give ideal breaking. The problem was due to the smaller brake lever on units designed for kids not giving enough leverage.
Best options were cantilever callipers if you can get bolt on bosses, or a complete upgrade to discs. These options give optimum leverage at the grip for small hands which translates to controllable breaking at the front/back wheel.
A lot depends on what level of riding you're looking at. If it's just around the local park then it's not critical, but if you're going out on real trails then you need the brakes to work effectively.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Disks just seem unreasonable. And unnecessary. Less than 60lbs total weight between bike and rider. So the small kid friendly levers were the problem with your dual pivot experience? Maybe regular levers positioned and reach adjusted so she pulls on the ends for max leverage. 
Scott


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

The "unreasonable" argument can be applied to 90% of bikes sold.
Do the majority if kids/adults need 20+ gears; suspension; disc brakes, not really and it's down to individual choice/preference based on making a ride more enjoyable and safe.
For us the coaster brake was causing falls. Having tried various lever and brake combinations and removing the coaster brake things improved but the issue was stopping quickly and under control. Narrow bars meant shorter levers which despite the reach being wound all the way in didn't give enough leverage.
My choice for going to disc was based on the fact that A lot less force is required, ample adjustment for reach, and the fact that this upgrade can be moved to progressive bikes.
If she was just riding around a flat park it wouldn't make much difference, but she's actually riding real trails (by her choice). 
At 3-8 kids can very easily be put off riding if things go wrong ie they find they can't stop in time.
I'm not the only one who has made this move and there's quite a few on this post who have shared ideas and reasoning and come to the same conclusion.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

I am hoping the the v brakes I am installing will do the job. Still waiting for the new fork though.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Just wanted to mention - I've installed a set of these brake levers I had laying around on a couple of my son's bikes and they've got great adjustability, particularly in the leverage department. I've found they were exactly what I needed to get his brakes to feel the way I wanted them to. Expensive as hell new, but might be able to find some out there used at a decent price.










Avid Speed Dial Ultimate Brake Lever Set (100008914) at CambriaBike.com


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

fire_strom said:


> Tektro R556 Long-Reach Road Caliper Set with Cartridge Pads from BikeBling.com
> I think a longer bolt on the pads with a bit of shimming (using the concave/convex washer sets used on avid disk brake calipers) would allow the needed tire clearance.
> Anything I am missing with this? I intend to try it once the bike gets here and I can measure the reach from holes to rims.
> Scott


The problem with these is that you are trying to run them around a tire that is way wider than they are designed to (efficiently) accommodate. Stacking in washers under the pads so that you can get the caliper arms to clear the spinning tire just strikes me as 'not giving up' on using the wrong tool for the job in the first place. If you were running BMX mini tires then those brakes might be a good solution, but we're talking Hotrocks in this thread.

I am the original guy to find and post the clamp on adapters. They work awesome. I am continually baffled by folks that gripe about spending $60 to $70 clams on their kids bike, in order to aid in the progression of their kids experience. I'll ask this...how much do you spend on mind rotting cable service per month? Coffee? I'd have bought those clamps for $100. The reason being is that they are an extremely effective adapter that facilitate the use of the type of brakes that would be on the bike, had it been welded up with the intent of having rim brakes. And most of us in here have all of the parts we need to set the brakes up (old sets of V-brakes/levers) just laying around and collecting dust. The value of these clamps is huge to me.

I am equally baffled by the folks that gripe about someone else deciding to run disc brakes on their kids bike. If someone wants to be creative and do it, so be it.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

I didn't think I was griping. I thought we were discussing brake options for kid's bikes. 

I spend $0 on cable, maybe $35 on coffee, a month. I don't see the relevancy.

Good job on the "discovery". You're like Columbus with brake parts. 

Turns out the Hotrock 16 is the wrong tool for us. We're going Spawn Banshee. The HR is sweet but since I'm not like "most of us here" who has tiny short reach brake levers and spare v-brakes laying around, the total cost to build the HR is too close to the Banshee and still not as nice. 

I am creative as f**k, especially with building bikes, but in some cases (this one) it is just better out the box. 

Cheers and good luck sorting out all that is baffling you.
-G


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## Billinsd (May 10, 2012)

jochribs said:


> The problem with these is that you are trying to run them around a tire that is way wider than they are designed to (efficiently) accommodate. Stacking in washers under the pads so that you can get the caliper arms to clear the spinning tire just strikes me as 'not giving up' on using the wrong tool for the job in the first place. If you were running BMX mini tires then those brakes might be a good solution, but we're talking Hotrocks in this thread.
> 
> I am the original guy to find and post the clamp on adapters. They work awesome. I am continually baffled by folks that gripe about spending $60 to $70 clams on their kids bike, in order to aid in the progression of their kids experience. I'll ask this...how much do you spend on mind rotting cable service per month? Coffee? I'd have bought those clamps for $100. The reason being is that they are an extremely effective adapter that facilitate the use of the type of brakes that would be on the bike, had it been welded up with the intent of having rim brakes. And most of us in here have all of the parts we need to set the brakes up (old sets of V-brakes/levers) just laying around and collecting dust. The value of these clamps is huge to me.
> 
> I am equally baffled by the folks that gripe about someone else deciding to run disc brakes on their kids bike. If someone wants to be creative and do it, so be it.


I love the adapters on my son's bike. If I had it to do again, I'd buy the Banshee, however, I originally got the Hotrock, because it had training wheels. I realized in hindsight, training wheels are not the way to go. Live and learn. Bill


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

fire_strom said:


> I didn't think I was griping. I thought we were discussing brake options for kid's bikes.


Actually, upgrades. On Hotrocks. And putting touring brakes on a fat tired bike (relative to the brakes intention) is a down grade.



fire_strom said:


> I spend $0 on cable, maybe $35 on coffee, a month. I don't see the relevancy.


Yes, that seems to have gone over your head.



fire_strom said:


> Good job on the "discovery". You're like Columbus with brake parts.


I'm actually glad that I had found them. I took me quite a while. When I saw this thread, I wanted to let others know about them since coming across them in the first place for me was pretty hard and I doubted that anyone knew about them. The guy that makes them/has them made doesn't seem to be well known/advertised. Seems that after posting that, several others have picked them up, and are more than pleased with them.

I think maybe we'll gonna start calling my son's Hotrock the 'Santa Maria'. I'll run it by my boy and report back. :thumbsup:



fire_strom said:


> Turns out the Hotrock 16 is the wrong tool for us. We're going Spawn Banshee. The HR is sweet but since I'm not like "most of us here" who has tiny short reach brake levers and spare v-brakes laying around, the total cost to build the HR is too close to the Banshee and still not as nice.
> 
> I am creative as f**k, especially with building bikes, but in some cases (this one) it is just better out the box.


Hotrock is the wrong tool? Fair enough. Good for going for the Banshee, 'tis a nice bike.

Did you actually get the Hotrock? Because if you did, the cost of getting the clamps and some seriously inexpensive yet effective v-brakes and levers is going to much less than that of a Banshee. I don't now what type of parts you are looking at...but I assume you're looking at stuff that's a bit too rich. Also, I used older LX levers with the screw adjusted in, and my son (who has average hands) has zero problem reaching them. If you are creative as f**k as you say, I don't see why special levers are necessary. Simple tinkering on my part allowed me to supplement the amount that the screw affected lever throw. I'm creative too. :thumbsup:



fire_strom said:


> Cheers and good luck sorting out all that is baffling you.
> -G


Back at cha!


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Billinsd said:


> I love the adapters on my son's bike. If I had it to do again, I'd buy the Banshee, however, I originally got the Hotrock, because it had training wheels. I realized in hindsight, training wheels are not the way to go. Live and learn. Bill


Yeah, I hear ya on that. The banshee is a nice package. My son started on a Raleigh Lil' Push, and didn't need the training wheels, but I didn't think about brakes being necessary. For me, it was the inability to not tinker that had me figuring out a way to put some brakes on the Hotrock. He's practically off of the Hotrock now, and on to a customized 20", so the value of these clamps was just right, and are really effective. I'm really glad I did them.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

jochribs said:


> Yes, that seems to have gone over your head.


Don't flatter yourself, I was being obtuse. I enjoyed the irony of your implication since I had spent the money and got the kid bike I thought was best instead saving a couple hundred for good enough.

In any case, let's stop polluting this otherwise useful thread with the petty banter.

-G


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

jochribs said:


> Here are some clamps that I found after searching for quite a bit of time. They weren't exactly cheap (around $65) and I had to supply the bosses, but they allowed me to throw some brakes I had laying around on my son's Hotrock 16. I used an LX lever that I had and adjusted the set screw all the way in. He has no problem chirping the tire by pulling the lever, and I've been teaching him to modulate.
> 
> Evolutionbikeco.com is where I got the v-brake adapter clamps.
> 
> Sorry about the crummy phone pics. Let me know if some better ones are needed.


Did you grind off the chain-guard bracket?


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Billinsd said:


> I love the adapters on my son's bike. If I had it to do again, I'd buy the Banshee, however, I originally got the Hotrock, because it had training wheels. I realized in hindsight, training wheels are not the way to go. Live and learn. Bill


Can you post your final favorite combination of adapter, brake and lever? I was going to go disk, but looks like you have to machine MB hubs and I don't have the skill.

This thing is sic though, wish someone made them production...

https://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb7502888/p4pb7502888.jpg

For now gonna try the V brake solution.

Also, what is the best 16 inch wheel for those who don't go custom?

If you do go custom, what did you use?

Thank You.


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## Billinsd (May 10, 2012)

cakemonster said:


> Can you post your final favorite combination of adapter, brake and lever? I was going to go disk, but looks like you have to machine MB hubs and I don't have the skill.
> 
> This thing is sic though, wish someone made them production...
> 
> ...


I sold the bike stock and kept the modified parts to sell. I got the brakes and adapters and stuff and would sell them to you for about half what I paid for them, plus shipping, if you are interested. Thanks Bill


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Billinsd said:


> I sold the bike stock and kept the modified parts to sell. I got the brakes and adapters and stuff and would sell them to you for about half what I paid for them, plus shipping, if you are interested. Thanks Bill


Yes. Will PM you.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

On that note, if anyone has a disk setup for a hotrock 16 I would interested as well...

I would like to make a bike with a little more clearance for a dirt jumper more like this either V brake or disk:

https://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb7502888/p4pb7502888.jpg

I have a 16 Hotrock minus cranks, BB, with bent rear wheel I got for $20 so a conversion is really the cost of the "conversion" parts for me.

At some point if they stick with it will get a Lil Shredder, but for now, frankenbikes.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Last question:

What length cranks did you put on? Clearance is an issue relative to mini bmx bottom bracket heights.

I am thinking Sinz 120-125 or so. Shorter than the 140's on his mini, but I don't think hotrocks have the clearance.

Also BB type/length does a hotrock take? 68 x 113 like a mini? I have had good luck with the ebay cartridge ones for minis and they are pretty light.


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

Pity you're not in the UK as post Christmas I will either be putting our 16" custom Hotrock back to standard and selling the parts on or selling the bike complete.
Current spec:
16" Hotrock 
Avid Elixer CR disc brakes front and rear with reach adjustment
3speed gears (freewheel) with trigger shifter
Sinz cranks with 34t
Magnesium platform pedals
20" Spinner Grind Air fork

Santa has been busy in his workshop ho ho ho details to be revealed in due course.
Also need to off load a Red 12" Hotwalk and a Pink 12" Hotrock as the place is looking more like a Bike shop than MrsGriffer18 will tolerate 


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Sounds awesome. I really only need a rear disk, but wouldn't argue with dual. If interested PM me to let me know what shipping the parts sans frame/bars would be. I would be keeping it single speed though, so no need for shifters/deraileur etc.

In the meantime what BB did you use with the sinz?


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## griffter18 (Jul 3, 2009)

I'd imagine it wouldn't be cheap shipping to the states and by the time that cost is factored in plus the parts you could probably do it cheaper. parts seem cheaper in the States than UK.

For the brakes look on eBay and you should pick a single up with a 160 disc. avid have both the BB5 & 7 which are disc/cable or you can go with Elixir or one of the other models which are Hydro as most of them have reach adjust.
For the wheel you can either go with a custom build using Circus Monkey hub, or to keep costs down use a MOSET 16" rear wheel or a BMX flip flop. MOSET make electric kids trials bike.
A cheap bmx freewheel can be fitted and you could use the existing crank.
To fit the rear brake you can either fit an A2Z disc brake adaptor or make the bracket yourself from Alloy plate.
Have a look through the Hotrock threads as there's a couple of us done this mod.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Appreciate it. Probably just gonna stick with V brakes for now.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

griffter18, I might be interested in it complete. Let me know how much. I am in UK too, but I think the wrong end of the country so would still need to ship.


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