# Prewar Fleet C-Model Klunker Project



## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

Hello Klunker experts. I thought I'd start a project thread instead of hijacking other threads.

I picked this up off of CL and got it in my hands on it yesterday. It's (I think) a 1936-1938 Fleet (Schwinn) C Model. Crank date stamp is 36.










I looks like the red paint might be original, but everything else is lathered in brushed-on silver paint. I'll likely have to off everything but the frame and fork to help fund the project unless you advise me otherwise.

I'd like to hear ideas and opinions. Frankly I'm torn between a "Fillet-Brazed" authentic looking ride like here -- https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=362356, and a hybrid interpretation like "scooderdude"s as shown here: https://clunkers.net/scott41dx/scooterdx.html

In the end, I don't have the disposable income do anything but what Charlie said and work on it as a ride-able project over time: 


Repack Rider said:


> The question is like asking, "What makes a good hotrod?" Find a frame, any frame, and build a bike. And if you come across a better frame, move the stuff over. Some klunker builders try to recreate the original '70s version, but the parts are hard to come by and it's a lot easier to build a hybrid.


Please see my *Q*uestions below, and thanks in advance.

I have a note into thecabe.com, but 
*Q:* Is this serial number only able to be tracked down to between 1936-1938? W03259










*Q:* Are these rims worth saving? A lot of silver paint over rust. Some wiggles and hops but not super bad...


































*Q:* Were these "heart and star" cranks originally chrome or painted?
*A:* (Apr 24) The brake cleaner I used to clean off the date stamp area revealed plating


















*Q:* When you guys machine an 6061 seatpost, what dimension do you shoot for? I'm guessing around 0.810"? And why do folks seem to go solid instead of drilling it out some... even a 1/4" hole?










*Q:* Are these forks original and are they worth using over a forged set of some kind?
*A:* (Apr 25) Doesn't matter, they're bent anyway...
*Q:* Is the upper strut mount bent?
*Q:* Any tips on freshening the head badge? More dreaded silver paint...










(Apr 24) Added this picture of the crown.
*Q:* Does this look right for prewar ca 1936?
*A:* (Apr 25) Doesn't matter, they're bent anyway...


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## ericb49 (Aug 11, 2006)

J_Westy said:


> Hello Klunker experts. I thought I'd start a project thread instead of hijacking other threads.
> 
> I picked this up off of CL and got it in my hands on it yesterday. It's (I think) a 1936-1938 Fleet (Schwinn) C Model.


Fairly sure you have a 1938 there.



J_Westy said:


> Are these rims worth saving? A lot of silver paint over rust. Some wiggles and hops but not super bad...


Yes - just ride them as is, if something else comes along use those. Those are "double drops".



J_Westy said:


> Were these "heart and star" cranks originally chrome or painted?


 both but most were plated - as an aside the cranks could be original, pull them and check for a date stamp (Schwinn records for pre-war frame SNs were lost in a fire).



J_Westy said:


> When you guys machine an 6061 seatpost, what dimension do you shoot for?


 extruded 6061 13/16" fits right in. As an interim step just slap a new Wald post in with a Brooks saddle, it won't bend much around town and they are really cheap.



J_Westy said:


> Q: Are these forks original and are they worth using over a forged set of some kind?
> Q: Is the upper strut mount bent?
> Q: Any tips on freshening the head badge? More dreaded silver paint...


Could be original to the Fleet brand, the truss' look right but the crown doesn't. If the upper rod bracket is Schwinn it's bent. Paint remover to bring it back to bare brass.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Interesting. Useless input here, but I have a set of those cranks on a late 1800's Imperial. I guess they could have kept the same design all those years, but it does beg the question of their origins.....

Nice bike you have there, good luck with it:thumbsup:


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Sweetheart crankset. Inch pinch. Pull the cranks out and there should be a two digit date stamp letting you know year of manufacture.


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

Aemmer said:


> Sweetheart crankset. Inch pinch. Pull the cranks out and there should be a two digit date stamp letting you know year of manufacture.


Added a picture in thread #1.

Does 1936 sound right for a "W" serial number?


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

Added a picture of the crown in thread #1.

Does this look right for prewar 1936? Would you use these for cross-country (not Mt. Tam) riding?

Thanks


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## rockhound (Dec 19, 2005)

Looks like a cool project.

I love the chainring.

I've started collecting old steel chainrings and would love to find some old ones like that.


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## ericb49 (Aug 11, 2006)

J_Westy said:


> Added a picture of the crown in thread #1.
> 
> Does this look right for prewar 1936? Would you use these for cross-country (not Mt. Tam) riding?
> 
> Thanks


The fork doesn't look like a Schwinn and I doubt it's earlier than 40s era, might explain why the rod bracket was bent down if non Scwhinn rods were used at some point.

If you're not bombing they should be fine, keep an eye on ebay for decent truss forks if you lean that way - although the later forged blades (or 70s Ashtabulas) will be a lot more durable.


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

ericb49 said:


> The fork doesn't look like a Schwinn and I doubt it's earlier than 40s era, might explain why the rod bracket was bent down if non Scwhinn rods were used at some point.
> 
> If you're not bombing they should be fine, keep an eye on ebay for decent truss forks if you lean that way - although the later forged blades (or 70s Ashtabulas) will be a lot more durable.


Thanks for the note, but I actually just pulled them and they're tweaked anyway...


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## kingsting (Sep 18, 2007)

J_Westy said:


> Added a picture in thread #1.
> 
> Does 1936 sound right for a "W" serial number?


1936 or 37 sounds about right for a "C" model frame like yours.

There's no way to decode serial numbers on a bike this old. All the Schwinn serial number records were destroyed in a fire around the middle of 1948.

You can use a Wald seatpost or one of the chrome jobbies from just about any Chicago built Schwinn. Go for a Sting-Ray seatpost if you want a little extra length. They're plenty strong.


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

I've decided to go with a hybrid look for cost reasons, so I have some Blue Ukai 26 x 2.125 wheels coming in the mail. The rear has some kind of coaster brake on it and the front is just a loose hoop that will have to be laced to the BMX hub below.

I also hit the Ann Arbor/Saline Classic Bicycle and Minibike Show And Swap Meet today picked up a few items below:

*Truss fork.* The head tube is very long (apparently came of a ladies model schwinn), so I'll have to shorten it.
*Q:* Does anyone have any experience with the stainless steel truss rods on ebay?










*6061 Answer Alumilite BMX Handlebars:* A little shop wear but not bad. Around a 3-3/4" rise and 28" wide.









*

Headbadge:* Nice patina. The guy had a NOS one too, but wanted $100! I like this one better anyway.










*Axle Adjusting Screws*










_Here's some of the other stuff I've accumulated before today..._

*Campy Seat Post Binder*










*NOS Tioga BMX bottom bracket*










*NOS Shimano BMX Front Hub*










*SR/Sakae Apex Cranks.* ca 1980, but they're an SR knock off of the Stronglight 99 that came out earlier in the '70's... 170mm x 48T, 86 BCD. I have a prosthetic right leg (below knee) and probably can't spin a big 180mm T.A. anyway, plus the price was right on this SR.










*VP Bat Wingz Pedals:* old stuff from the basement


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## kingsting (Sep 18, 2007)

This is going to be a nice build!

I've only used the repop stainless truss rods on springer forks. They're ok but they look bad if you have a bunch of new chrome on the bike or if you have a lot of rusty bits, they don't match the patina.

The blue Ukais will be a neat addition. They're also quite valuable to King Sting and old school BMX cruiser collectors.


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

kingsting said:


> I've only used the repop stainless truss rods on springer forks. They're ok but they look bad if you have a bunch of new chrome on the bike or if you have a lot of rusty bits, they don't match the patina.


Never thought of that. The only chrome will be the seat post binder and headset. The rest will be silver anodized, so it'll be an odd mix anyway. Definitely something to consider though. Thanks.


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

J_Westy said:


> I've decided to go with a hybrid look for cost reasons, so I have some Blue Ukai 26 x 2.125 wheels coming in the mail. The rear has some kind of coaster brake on it and the front is just a loose hoop that will have to be laced to the BMX hub


The wheel and hoop came in UPS today. They look good... minimal shop wear but that's okay, this is going to be a rider.

It's a Suntour coaster brake. Needs some elbow grease to clean it up -- it's a bit dirty from sitting around a bike store for a very long time. The hub shell has a chevron patterns around it. 
*Q: *Is that 1980's BMX?


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

The silver 'paint' was in response to metal rationing... along with balck New Departure hubs, wooden pedal blocks, etc. I think it make actually be a cad paint, so use caution. All the parts on that bike would be of some use/value to an enthusiast.

-Schmitty-


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

Schmitty said:


> The silver 'paint' was in response to metal rationing... along with balck New Departure hubs, wooden pedal blocks, etc. I think it make actually be a cad paint, so use caution. All the parts on that bike would be of some use/value to an enthusiast.
> 
> -Schmitty-


Interesting history I never new about! In this case, I really think it was paint added later when somebody tried to "fix it up". The paint wiped off the chainring with some acetone to reveal the original chrome.

I ended up trading the parts to the LBS for some small parts and a future wheel build.


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

J_Westy said:


> It's a Suntour coaster brake. Needs some elbow grease to clean it up -- it's a bit dirty from sitting around a bike store for a very long time. The hub shell has a chevron patterns around it.
> *Q: *Is that 1980's BMX?


The hub shell cleaned up pretty well with chrome polish.

*Q: *Does anybody recognize the vintage of this Suntour hub?


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## kingsting (Sep 18, 2007)

Your Suntour hub looks to be from 1981 or 1982. When you rebuild it, be sure to drip a little oil on the retarder spring. They squeak loudly if you don't.


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

kingsting said:


> Your Suntour hub looks to be from 1981 or 1982. When you rebuild it, be sure to drip a little oil on the retarder spring. They squeak loudly if you don't.


Thanks for the info kingsting!

--------

A little more progess...

Scored an Ashtabula Motomag stem for cheap. A little Eastwood Zinc Phosphate spray paint, and it will be stylin'. The $50-$80 for a decent one on the bay is out of hand.










I also traded the Schwinn ladies model truss fork above to my awesome LBS guy to build up the Ukai hoop with the Shimano BMX hub.










I ditched that fork because of the recommendations in another thread to go with a forged blade style fork for stength (at least in the fore aft direction), so I picked up this balloon era NOS Schwinn fork instead... just gotta figure out what to do for truss bars. I might make a bracket to mount under the crown to guide the trusses???


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

J_Westy said:


> Thanks for the info kingsting!
> 
> --------


The trusses will work fine without a guide on the fork crown.

By the way, I spoke with Alan Bonds about that circa '36 fork with the built-in truss guides and he said it should be just fine and to go ahead and "ride it like you stole it". Yes, one did break in the infamous crash, but that is to be expected and I've bent a handful of early-mid 80s forks. Not sure if that particular crash was the only reason it got its "reputation" or not.

If you still want measurements let me know.


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

Fillet-brazed said:


> The trusses will work fine without a guide on the fork crown.
> 
> By the way, I spoke with Alan Bonds about that circa '36 fork with the built-in truss guides and he said it should be just fine and to go ahead and "ride it like you stole it". Yes, one did break in the infamous crash, but that is to be expected and I've bent a handful of early-mid 80s forks. Not sure if that particular crash was the only reason it got its "reputation" or not.
> 
> If you still want measurements let me know.


Yes -- measurements would be great! I think I'd like to make a guide for aesthetics if nothing else. Shortening the other one was turning into a bear anyway... plus it made for good trading material.

Excellent AB quote -- thanks!


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## ericb49 (Aug 11, 2006)

J_Westy said:


> I picked up this balloon era NOS Schwinn fork... just gotta figure out what to do for truss bars. I might make a bracket to mount under the crown to guide the trusses???


Use post war truss bracket and rods - Memory Lane might have some repops, if you get stuck let me know I might have some in the stash.

They look like this:


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

It'd be kinda cool to run some trusses up to the flats on the bars ans attach with some clamps on either side of the stem. Might could help out on the steering a bit.

-Schmitty-


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

MMMM trusses.....


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

Aemmer said:


> MMMM trusses.....


ericb49 reminded me that AB built this bike with a post war fork and truss.


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

Aemmer said:


> MMMM trusses.....


Found some prewar trusses in MN... should arrive in a couple weeks.

Here's the latest arrival. 1983 Brooks B72. I really wanted the chrome instead of the newer black style.


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Great build. Thanks for sharing your quest. I really enjoy the eclectic combinations people come up with on their klunker projects. You can ask CK or look at Alan bonds site, but in the end it's "ride what you brung"


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## Dr S (Dec 7, 2007)

That is going to to look sweet when finished. Just check your bottom bracket width- the Tioga BB I found for my Schwinn turned out to be far too wide and held me up for quite a while (not very common this side of the pond!). 
Nice wheels too- I wondered where they went to, had a bid on them for my next project!! 

Some good finds at the swap meet too, I wish we had old Schwinn and BMX cruiser parts over here. Finding that elusive headbadge is stopping my Klunker from being finished. Did you guys see the Excelsior badge do $160+ on fleabay last week?

Cheers
Si


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

Dr S said:


> That is going to to look sweet when finished. Just check your bottom bracket width- the Tioga BB I found for my Schwinn turned out to be far too wide and held me up for quite a while (not very common this side of the pond!).
> Nice wheels too- I wondered where they went to, had a bid on them for my next project!!
> 
> Some good finds at the swap meet too, I wish we had old Schwinn and BMX cruiser parts over here. Finding that elusive headbadge is stopping my Klunker from being finished. Did you guys see the Excelsior badge do $160+ on fleabay last week?
> ...


Yes - I need to fit up that BB and cranks and see how things line up. Maybe this weekend. I figured I could put my chainring on the other side of the spider if I need to.

And yeah -- those Excelsior badges are crazy expensive on the bay! If I run across one, I'll let you know.

Thanks for updating your post on retrobike -- awesome project. Outstanding!


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

J_Westy said:


> Found some prewar trusses in MN... should arrive in a couple weeks.
> 
> Here's the latest arrival. 1983 Brooks B72. I really wanted the chrome instead of the newer black style.


It's good that you went for the vintage saddle. The new b-72's don't seem to be of the same size or quality.

Jeff


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

Aemmer said:


> MMMM trusses.....


I picked up a set of prewar truss rods like these...

They're pretty rough, so I'm thinking of painting them with the black-oxide paint like the ashtabula stem picture in post 19 above.

For the paint scheme for the frame, I'm thinking old english white spears over black with primary blue pin stripes to go with the Ukais.

Anybody have an opinion? Black-oxide or chrome?


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Chrome to match the saddle rails.


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

If anyone was entertained by this chronicle, you can find the updates here:

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61972


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

J_Westy said:


> http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61972


Should be ready for paint in about 3 weeks :thumbsup:


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

The paint is on! We finally had a couple 65-70F days in Michigan.

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61972


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

*Complete!*

I finished her up a couple of weeks ago. Turned out pretty good I think :thumbsup:

For more pics and specs, see: https://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=570569&highlight=#570569


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

Finally took the time to install some purchases from over the winter...

Scored an NOS Ashtabula Schwinn-stamped stem and a really nice black B72. The old B72 was brown and kinda saggy.

I mostly use this as a town/pub bike, but it sure is a grin!


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Sweet!


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## rev106 (Jul 9, 2009)

You may find the suntour hubs to be lacking in braking power, just my experience.


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

Agreed. It stinks, but it's the way it came as NOS. And it's fine for how I've ridden it, but I wouldn't even try a race!


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## propguy (Oct 2, 2008)

Just finished Klunk #2 and had it in the dirt for the first time today. I think they're related!! :thumbsup:


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

Sweet! Do you have a build thread somewhere with more details and pictures?


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