# Walking away from MTB



## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

I stumbled across this guy's video yesterday. Have no idea who he is, haven't watched any of his other videos, but I think he makes some very good points about what's going on in the MTB world these days. I see a lot of the same in other sports/hobbies, so maybe it's more of a societal issue? or, maybe it's just par for the course with competitive type A personalities that seem to be so prevalent in cycling? For sure, a lot of what he talks about can apply equally to roadies too.







.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Those types of videos are a dime a dozen.
Why I quit *_* _ _ _ _ .


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I stopped watching his videos a long time ago because he came across as kind of a jerk.


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## dirtwolf (Feb 15, 2021)

trying to get everybody to agree with him so they all quit and he has the trails all to himself


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

$10 says not one person here will make it through his entire video of whining. Glad he’s not riding anymore. Hopefully he can find a future in dog walking


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Sir kayakalot said:


> $10 says not one person here will make it through his entire video of whining. Glad he’s not riding anymore. Hopefully he can find a future in dog walking


I made it about 5 minutes


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

I skimmed.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

the-one1 said:


> I skimmed.


As will everyone. Worst video ever. There’s enough whining going on in the world without purposefully seeking it out


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

I know plenty of guys who quit MTB when it turns out it wasn't something they enjoyed doing or was too much time/work to invest into. They didn't announce it to everyone and gave their reasons. They just hung up the bike and that was that.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

I've watched his vids occasionally to see if he's made any progress overcoming his crippling fear and anxiety, I don't think he ever did and this is why he doesn't enjoy riding. In all the years he was making YT vids he's really never progressed beyond being a below-average rider, and you can see the fear infecting his riding in many of his vids.

I think everyone, especially after an injury, has these mental issues but I also think overcoming them is an important skill in life. Trauma is only traumatic because we perceive it as an affront to our ego. But, it's also an opportunity to better ourselves. If we don't create these opportunities then life will provide them for us, like it or not. Riding a mtb is a blessing, and it's too bad he doesn't recognize it as such but otoh who's to say what's right for him but himself. If mtb was too much there will be other opportunities and maybe he'll find something that fits better with where he's at right now.

Edit: I also disagree with OP, he hasn't made any good points, it's all BS. You can choose who to ride with and if you don't like them or the approach taken to the risks involved in mtb there is a broad range of folks and a broad range of attitudes towards riding and progression. You can make of mtb what you will, nobody is forcing you to "just send it" or ride with folks who do.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Y'all have talked me out of watching the vid.
Meanwhile, one less clown clogging up the trails.
I'm talking about the guy who made the vid, not me. 
=sParty


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

Have fun walking


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Sir kayakalot said:


> $10 says not one person here will make it through his entire video of whining. Glad he’s not riding anymore. Hopefully he can find a future in dog walking


I got to 40 seconds... can someone sum up the video because all my farks flew out the window very quickly.

On giving up. Follow your own personal joy. If that's mountain biking then cool. If not that's cool too. 

Mixing it up also helps. 

This is what I was doing last weekend.

Comping and kite buggying in the sand dunes. I do it every year. Bloody awesome!

I have discovered that I am a terrain rider. I just love interacting with various forms of natural terrain. I'm also kitesurfing waves in the ocean too....


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## analog7 (Jun 3, 2021)

Thumbnail alone is enough for me to not watch.


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## AEyogi (Nov 19, 2021)

Insecure people have a hard time in life, they are oversensitive, take things too seriously, and ruin enjoyable things by being competitive. I am happy to learn from other's mistakes, and this gives me more motivation to be like a kid enjoying my bicycle.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

plummet said:


> View attachment 2009058
> 
> 
> I got to 40 seconds... can someone sum up the video because all my farks flew out the window very quickly.
> ...


Yeah, man! Picking lines -- it's about picking lines for me. Whatever. I might even like white water kayaking... dunno, never tried it. But it involves picking lines so... maybe.
=sParty


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Nat said:


> I stopped watching his videos a long time ago because he came across as kind of a jerk.


Why is he a jerk? 

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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

He does speak a lot of truths. I mostly can't watch mtb videos, though. From anyone. Lots of reasons I won't cover because they're not really relevant here.

Some of the things he referred to don't really keep me away from riding because I'm at peace with how to navigate those things. 

The risk aspect he discussed is absolutely real. That's something I've come to peace with, but it does affect who I ride with. I am comfortable with my personal level of risk-taking. I take fewer risks when I ride solo, and I'll take a little bit more when I'm with a group that I trust. But I absolutely won't ride with people that take more risks than I'm comfortable with, because inevitably, when they go too far, it becomes the responsibility of those they're riding with to address their failures. It also can become the responsibility of any casual bystander to deal with their failures, so I have a tendency to avoid that general kind of mentality when I go out to ride.

The tiering thing he discusses is something that frustrates me. I think it's very much related to the concentration of Type A sorts who tend to be attracted to mountain biking. But I've encountered SO MANY people who either can't adjust their riding to whoever they're with, or they put off unpleasant vibes when they're forced to adjust their riding to whoever they're with. Again, I'm mostly comfortable with how I navigate this sort of thing. I'm always cool with adjusting my pace or my ride plan depending on who shows up or depending on how those who show up are feeling that day. But I absolutely cannot tolerate people who show up to a group ride but then can't handle adapting to the group.

I know people who have been burned so badly by people who can't adapt to a group that they won't ride with anyone else who's faster/more skilled because they don't want to slow them down. It's sad.

I do also think that there are some broader cultural issues going that his experiences point to. Gatekeeping is a problem in a lot of things. Honestly, I encountered it in golf a long time ago in a really bad way (he kept bringing that up because it's apparently his new thing?), and it's part of the reason why I won't touch golf anymore. I think social media, in particular, makes gatekeeping worse because it blends well with trolling behavior. And since he did mtb social media (youtube) for his primary job for awhile, he got exposed to a heavy concentration of it, aimed directly at him. I don't think I'd be able to tolerate that for very long, either.

I recently got my own diagnosis of ADHD, so I understand a lot of that side of it, too. I'm not medicating (yet), but I've been following some other non-medication strategies. Frankly, just knowing why I struggle with certain things has been very empowering. And I totally understand that there are some things that can be very life-changing with how they impact your general outlook on things. I've had my own life-changing event, as well, which forced a major reevaluation of priorities.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Picard said:


> Why is he a jerk?


Maybe his older brother used to beat him up when they were kids?
=sParty


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## Dan Zulu (Jul 5, 2008)

I made it two minutes and gave up. Did he ever get to a point?


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

The more YouTubers that want to quit, the better. Also seeing as OP is one of the biggest e-bike trolls here, I’d support him quitting too.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Holy crap, 34 minutes of him sitting there talking? I didn't even make it 90 seconds.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I am shocked that Paul quit MTB. He seem very enthusiastic about it. He even bought a van to travel everywhere 

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## twowheelmotion (Feb 10, 2010)

I felt like I've really been influenced by this moving video despite the fact I watched 00:00 to 00:06 and then fast forwarded to 33:50.


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## Roge (May 5, 2017)

Poor guy, probably rode a Roscoe 7.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Dan Zulu said:


> I made it two minutes and gave up. Did he ever get to a point?


I didn't watch the entire thing, but the jist of it seemed to be that he went to Sedona, saw some people pushing themselves on things bigger than he personally deemed they were good enough to ride, it made him nervous so he decided to quit mountain biking...

Oh, and to make it worse... their riding buddies were encouraging them.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

"I don't think I want to go mountain biking today". That thought is foreign to me. For the most part. If there's a big windstorm going, then I don't really want to go risk being killed by a falling tree or something. It's not that I don't want to ride, but that the risk is too great. I've been at this for nearly 40 years and have never really considered quitting it.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

I'm currently making a video called,

"Why Everyone Else Should Quit Mountain Biking".


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

D. Inoobinati said:


> I'm currently making a video called,
> 
> "Why Everyone Else Should Quit Mountain Biking".


I promise I could make it all the way through that one


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## louiesquared (6 mo ago)

Regardless of whether you agree with him or not, I can understand why he made the video. He has 181K subscribers. That's a big number and takes a ton of commitment. Some of his older videos have over a million views. Making a video explaining why he has not been around for a while and what the future of his channel is makes sense. Not every video on YouTube is meant for the masses. Some videos are meant for the loyal subscribers that follow a particular content creator and will absolutely not resonate with those who don't.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

louiesquared said:


> Regardless of whether you agree with him or not, I can understand why he made the video. He has 181K subscribers. That's a big number and takes a ton of commitment. Some of his older videos have over a million views. Making a video explaining why he has not been around for a while and what the future of his channel is makes sense. Not every video on YouTube is meant for the masses. Some videos are meant for the loyal subscribers that follow a particular content creator and will absolutely not resonate with those who don't.


He could have shortened it to 38 seconds and said what needed to be said and would have gotten his point across


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Roge said:


> Poor guy, probably rode a Roscoe 7.


You are so negative dude. 

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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Picard said:


> You are so negative dude.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


He could have said “poor guy, probably rode an ebike” but he was being sensitive to the OP


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## GoldenKnightMTB (11 mo ago)

I get that Mountain Biking is dangerous, and yes if you ride with people they can push you. 
I ride alone and know my limitations. I also ride as hard or as soft as I want. 
I guess it's better that he quit if he doesn't enjoy it. 
Nobody is going to miss him.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

The swirling patterns behind him made me a bit nauseous.


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## louiesquared (6 mo ago)

Sir kayakalot said:


> He could have shortened it to 38 seconds and said what needed to be said and would have gotten his point across


You know you have the option of not watching the video. As stated, that video was clearly not for you.


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## thatalexguy (Oct 5, 2021)

plummet said:


> View attachment 2009058
> 
> 
> I got to 40 seconds... can someone sum up the video because all my farks flew out the window very quickly.
> ...


Waht!? That's a thing! That kite bugging looks awesome and fun.


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## BigStatiK (Jul 26, 2020)




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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

thatalexguy said:


> Waht!? That's a thing! That kite bugging looks awesome and fun.


It's an obscure niche inside a offshoot of a niche sport..... 

I don't care. It's oh for awesome. Petty there are not more dunes closed to me. This is a 17-hour around trip for me to get there and back. But each year I make the pilgrimage it is awesome. It's totally different to mountain biking but the see the terrain and react to it process is the same. 

The amusing part is I am considered a maniac in the kite buggy community because I get to these dunes and start riding really obscure steep tight lines that the rest of them think is insane. I look at it with my dh mountain bike eye and go... there's no trees to hit, no rocks.... I can see a nice radius run out, easy peasy, and hit the line. 

Ok, there are some extra dangers you have to navigate, mainly around kite control and kite size. There is the potential that you can be lofted at the top of a dune and smash to your death at the bottom of it if you get the flying process and kite size wrong.... but that all comes with experience.


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## abeckstead (Feb 29, 2012)

Sir kayakalot said:


> $10 says not one person here will make it through his entire video of whining. Glad he’s not riding anymore. Hopefully he can find a future in dog walking


Don't even care enough to click lmao


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## MtbDork (Apr 10, 2020)

All the negativity/whining in here is surprising. Paul is a pretty cool guy and has done a lot for the community.

Hope he has success in whatever he does next.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Sparticus said:


> Yeah, man! Picking lines -- it's about picking lines for me. Whatever. I might even like white water kayaking... dunno, never tried it. But it involves picking lines so... maybe.
> =sParty


Yeah, Took me a long time to realize what I was hunting and it is that see the terrain, pick the line and send it action. 
I don't care if I'm on a kite buggy in a sand dune or in the waves on the water or in the mountains on the bike. Pick the right tool for the conditions. 

I did do a bit of white water kayaking back in the day which was cool. The whole start at A finish at B organise people to pick up business was a bit too much admin for me. The white water kayaking was sweet however.

Here are some kite surfing shots too. The interesting thing with water sports is that the environment chooses the silly level. (assuming you take on that day). You wait for conditions and then you do it. But once committed you are subjected to all the madness the wearther provides whether you like it or not... Unless you go back to the land you can't take the pussy line.... you are committed. It's also a moving 3d landscape, you must react and react now. The good side of water sports. Typically when you crash, you just splash down into the water with no injury. 

The other good thing about kitesurfing is that the jumps can be HUGE. Jumping a distance like a redbull hardline gap or the canyon gap at rampage is child's play. The jump below which is small by kiting standards will be 40-50 mtr distance by the time I land. So it trains your eyethometer for bigger jumps on the bike. 

And before you ask. No! i will not be jump hardline or rampage sized jumps on the mountain bike!


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Curveball said:


> The swirling patterns behind him made me a bit nauseous.


You should take Gravol. 

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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Harold said:


> I know people who have been burned so badly by people who can't adapt to a group that they won't ride with anyone else who's faster/more skilled because they don't want to slow them down. It's sad.


IIRC you lived near me at one point in NC. When I first moved here, this was rarely an issue on group rides, but it seems to be becoming a bigger and bigger problem around here with people treating others like ****. I heard someone just a week or two ago complaining in a shop about how one of the group rides had some folks that were breathing down their neck the entire time.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Picard said:


> You should take Gravol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


I'm thinking of taking some vodka and cottage cheese.


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## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

If mountain biking was my job, I'd probably want to quit it too. Or playing guitar - something I also enjoy a lot.

Just seems like the guy is burned out.


EDIT - through the video he keeps saying he's not burned out and it doesn't have to do with turning it into a job. ??? Odd.


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## vegen (Jan 2, 2006)

I tried stand-up paddleboarding a few years ago and didn't like it. Should I make a video about it?


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Cool story. Whatever. Am I the only one here that just rides and doesn't take part in any of the lifestyle? I don't have stickers on my car, I don't ride with anybody ever, and unless I tell people they'll never know what I do. And I go the gym, too, and work out so I don't look like a human quad model. I'm not obsessed, in other words. And you don't have to defy death to be a mountain biker. Nice, calm trails are cool, too. Walking down some dangerous rock ledges, likewise. It's a hobby and a pastime for most of us, not a competitive sport.

But cycling is life, all the same. It's one of those crazy, inexplicable activities that seems silly but I swear we have evolved to do it. Mountain biking is just a subset of general cycling. Sure, I do a lot of gravel endurance stuff but there is nothing like getting on the trail...three hours later I alway remember why I like mountain biking. If I don't feel like riding, I don't, however. 

My life would be a good deal more empty without cycling. In a first world problems kind of way, ha ha, it's almost all I have left now. I have had a very bad couple of years, I won't lie.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

He should get barbie to motivate him 

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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Sounds like he needed a new friend group without the send it culture. Personally, I keep my wheels on the ground and most of my group does too. He sounds like the perfect candidate for some XC riding. Just get out in nature and enjoy your surroundings.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Curveball said:


> I'm thinking of taking some vodka and cottage cheese.


You will be puking on the trails. Eww man

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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Picard said:


> He should get barbie to motivate him
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


He’d just ruin that too by trying to monetize it and eventually burn out


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

the door is that way -------->


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## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

Ailuropoda said:


> I'm not obsessed, in other words.


I also am not obsessed, heck I only have 1200 posts on here


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Don't get it. I pick who I ride with, if someone is an AH I don't ride with them. 

Instead of quitting mountain biking because of toxic people... how about just quitting the toxic people? 

Or just get out of the crowded bike parks near the city and ride alone.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Adodero said:


> IIRC you lived near me at one point in NC. When I first moved here, this was rarely an issue on group rides, but it seems to be becoming a bigger and bigger problem around here with people treating others like ****. I heard someone just a week or two ago complaining in a shop about how one of the group rides had some folks that were breathing down their neck the entire time.


yeah, I still do. the people I'm referring to in particular are people I've known for longer than I've lived here. the worst culprits of people I've found who can't turn it "off" are people I've met and ridden with many years ago. There are a couple glaring examples. About as Type A as you can get. There's no such thing as a casual ride for them. Yet they show up to group rides and instead of being social and taking it down a couple notches, they put the hurt on everybody else and get mad when others can't keep up.

I've showed up to "intermediate" group rides locally from time to time here, mostly shortly after moving here, and found that locals' fitness was far and above beyond my expectations for "intermediate" level. to the point where I was off the back VERY early in the ride, effectively riding solo. those experiences have made me wary about other group rides advertised in that way. IME locally, it seems that most people are so accustomed to the type of challenge and terrain here that they have lost a bit of perspective on the larger picture of the range of abilities. So ppl might _think_ they're leading or doing an intermediate ride, but they're a good bit above that. I have some suspicions about which group ride you might be referring to.

Many, many years ago I showed up to a ride advertised as Beginner level in a different state. Not one person there was actually a beginner. And while I was far more skilled technically than that, my fitness was at a low point. And they proceeded to drop me off the back, make me feel inconvenienced for holding the group up, made me push myself far too hard for a beginner ride to which point I vomited on the side of the trail, which pushed me deeper into dehydration. And then, at the next road intersection, the sweeper just pointed me back to my car, rather than escorting me back (I didn't know this park/trail system), especially considering my unfamiliarity with the place and my reduced ability to think being dehydrated.

These problems definitely exist in mtb, and they push a lot of people out.

I coach and guide locally now, and I am heavily focused on exactly the sorts of riders who _would_ be discouraged enough by this kind of experience to step away from it.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Picard said:


> You will be puking on the trails. Eww man
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


I've found that spewing barf all over the place is a great way to get the trails to myself.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Ogre said:


> Don't get it. I pick who I ride with, if someone is an AH I don't ride with them.
> 
> Instead of quitting mountain biking because of toxic people... how about just quitting the toxic people?
> 
> Or just get out of the crowded bike parks near the city and ride alone.


That’s just it, either he lost sight of what mtn biking is all about, or he never really knew it to begin with


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Curveball said:


> I've found that spewing barf all over the place is a great way to get the trails to myself.


I've found that when I'm spewing barf all over the place, riding isn't really something I want to do.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Yeah I only did 90 seconds of it myself. I love the guy but I don't watch many of his videos. I don't watch any popular YouTube MTB channels. I just like clips of regular riders doing their thing. It's way more entertaining and much more fun to see what they can do. 

I actually quit mountain biking for a year. It was mostly a mental game. I wasn't progressing because of my health and the fact I ride alone most of the time. Then I met my buddy over a year ago and he's now a Cat 1 DH racer. Super patient guy and will ride at any speed. He's a big time MTB advocate. He reeled me back into the sport and gave me hope that I can ride much better. He coaches me when we go on rides. He's kind of a local legend to me and I'm so happy to know him. 

Here's his YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiYX47KpGQVb-_v1Z_HydPQ/featured


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Harold said:


> These problems definitely exist in mtb, and they push a lot of people out.


It shouldn’t push people out of mtb, it should teach people to avoid a$$holes


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Ogre said:


> I've found that when I'm spewing barf all over the place, riding isn't really something I want to do.


You might want to read my posts with a gigantic grain of salt. I'd guess that my silly to serious ratio on here is about 70 to 1.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

MTB is a solo sport, but can be enjoyed with others. But it doesn't take others to make it enjoyable.
Anyone remember this guy? Quitting MTB because there wasn't anyone to ride with.








Guess Im done with MTBing


I'm old and not nearly as fast or adept as most cyclists out there. I've gone on several group rides and actually hang pretty well, but just can't work my way into the various sub groups from a social perspective. I'm sure they have no interest in hanging out with me and I totally understand...




www.mtbr.com


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

the-one1 said:


> MTB is a solo sport, but can be enjoyed with others. But it doesn't take others to make it enjoyable.
> Anyone remember this guy? Quitting MTB because there wasn't anyone to ride with.
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe that’s the guy in the video!


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

louiesquared said:


> Regardless of whether you agree with him or not, I can understand why he made the video. He has 181K subscribers. That's a big number and takes a ton of commitment. Some of his older videos have over a million views. Making a video explaining why he has not been around for a while and what the future of his channel is makes sense. Not every video on YouTube is meant for the masses. Some videos are meant for the loyal subscribers that follow a particular content creator and will absolutely not resonate with those who don't.


yeah, I totally get him making the video with that many subscribers. I hate it when a channel I follow just goes silent without any explanation.

I also totally agree with a lot of what he has to say about the toxic culture of mountain biking these days, and most of the comments here only serve to demonstrate it.


.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Curveball said:


> I've found that spewing barf all over the place is a great way to get the trails to myself.


We can ride together. Let us compete in who will puke the most on the trails

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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

I work in an industry that is a blend of art and science and a lot of people come to it from the art side as it is their passion. Once they have to do their passion for a job, it tends to ruin that passion. 

I am always surprised that people who put their passion as their job and then burn out on their passion are surprised. Passion is something that you do for you, for me that is mountain biking. I do it for me, if I had to perform to make people pay me money to do it, the need to constantly one up your previous video to keep those clicks, etc would be overwhelming. 

I didn't make it through the video, was too long, but like anyone that bases their life and income on clicks, each hit of dopamine from a view and penny or two in from a advertiser must be accompanied by the dread of having to do it again but better and more impressively. Social media whether just friendface, MTBR, or youtube is regular folks getting that dopamine hit. Monetize it and it becomes a lot more important. Make it your living and it becomes even more important. Wrap your passion in it and watch your passion become something you detest.

If you love something do it for you. If you have a passion, don't base your lively hood on it and expect it to be such a strong passion afterwards.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Sir kayakalot said:


> It shouldn’t push people out of mtb, it should teach people to avoid a$$holes


but it does push people out. not everyone has the same willingness to search for the non-assholes within a group. you see it all over mtbr. TONS of people in threads about group rides say that they never go on group rides because they're sick of other people.

With Paul and the fact that his riding was much more public, attracted lots of people who want to hang out with him, be hangers-on, or whatever, and it's going to be a LOT more difficult for him to filter out the people he wants to interact with. That's a little different from someone who ONLY rides for fun, who has a little more control over that. His only ability to control it at this point is to totally remove himself from mtb, really. because now his name/face are out there and some people will seek him out, even if he just takes down the youtube channel thing.

I've run into Seth and Bobo both, locally (I only mention them now because Paul did in his video, as people he's met and has appreciated meeting through mtb). Neither would remember me. But because of their youtube channels, they're both very recognizable and would continue to be so, even if they stopped their youtube channels right now. If for some reason they got tired of mtb and the negative aspects of it, it would be very hard for them to fade into obscurity while continuing to ride.

One thing that's _very _common to ADHD (Paul has been dx with ADHD and discusses the impact of this dx on his life in general terms) is extra sensitivity to criticism. It certainly seems like Paul has some level of that. It's not something you can just "turn off" as some in this thread are saying to do. I have some of it, too, and it makes some situations _very_ difficult. I have ways to cope and manage it, but it doesn't change that it's there and that it affects me.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

_CJ said:


> yeah, I totally get him making the video with that many subscribers. I hate it when a channel I follow just goes silent without any explanation.
> 
> I also totally agree with a lot of what he has to say about the toxic culture of mountain biking these days, and most of the comments here only serve to demonstrate it.
> 
> ...


Seriously? What did you expect, a big crying fest? I’m not jumping on board with how mean and cruel the world is, so much so that it would cause me to abandon a sport that can be enjoyed just fine solo. People are a$$holes across every single hobby. No need to create a video about getting your feelings hurt to the point you have to quit mtb


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

MtbDork said:


> All the negativity/whining in here is surprising. Paul is a pretty cool guy and has done a lot for the community.
> 
> Hope he has success in whatever he does next.


Quit whining


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## sacrefrancais (Nov 15, 2010)

_CJ said:


> yeah, I totally get him making the video with that many subscribers. I hate it when a channel I follow just goes silent without any explanation.
> 
> I also totally agree with a lot of what he has to say about the toxic culture of mountain biking these days, and most of the comments here only serve to demonstrate it.


I'll admit to having no idea who this guy is, nor having sat thru his video, but I can't help but wonder about the connection between having followers and his feelings toward the sport, like you might constantly be trying to determine if you're biking for yourself, or your followers. All it would take is having an off day or week and suddenly you can't tell the difference anymore. Whereas for me, I look it as a temporary hiatus. Like others have mentioned, sometimes you just need a break.


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## Oogie (Jun 9, 2021)

MtbDork said:


> All the negativity/whining in here is surprising. Paul is a pretty cool guy and has done a lot for the community.
> 
> Hope he has success in whatever he does next.


I appreciated his Kenda discount code. Stocked up on kid and gravel tires.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

I remember watching his vids near when he started. He was an average rider just learning/doing it for fun and enjoying sharing that newness/clumsiness with people online and in person (at least that's my take). Then it seemed like almost overnight he was hitting up Whistler and doing yt collabs and basically turned into the same thing a lot of other people were doing with the whole socail media thing. That's when I quit watching. 
Only made it to ~90 seconds today...seems the novelty wore off long ago for him. Too bad, really.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Ogre said:


> Don't get it. I pick who I ride with, if someone is an AH I don't ride with them.
> 
> Instead of quitting mountain biking because of toxic people... how about just quitting the toxic people?
> 
> Or just get out of the crowded bike parks near the city and ride alone.


Those are just his excuses. It's very obvious what his real issues are.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Harold said:


> yeah, I still do. the people I'm referring to in particular are people I've known for longer than I've lived here. the worst culprits of people I've found who can't turn it "off" are people I've met and ridden with many years ago. There are a couple glaring examples. About as Type A as you can get. There's no such thing as a casual ride for them.
> 
> These problems definitely exist in mtb, and they push a lot of people out.
> 
> I coach and guide locally now, and I am heavily focused on exactly the sorts of riders who _would_ be discouraged enough by this kind of experience to step away from it.


What is described above happens a lot and it's hard to avoid. The people who ride a lot are usually very fit and what's considered easy for them isn't easy for someone like my wife who's still relatively new. Her idea of a beginner road ride and my local group is completely different. They're riding hills that are a 20% grade. She cannot even climb them with hundreds if not a thousand miles in her legs. She ends up pushing her bike and it's demoralizing. I suggest a route, but it has too much traffic. They ride a road with even more traffic. 

She gives up and moves on or only rides with me. It's unfortunate, but a very true and honest take on what happens in our sport.

I've seen this happen over and over again with road and mtb. I've even been guilty of it.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I am still in MTB. Who wants to ride with me 

Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Sir kayakalot said:


> It shouldn’t push people out of mtb, it should teach people to avoid a$$holes


This isn't always a viable option. A lot of us on this site live in mtb meccas, but I live in a small town with less than ten consistent people. It's probably closer to three or five. You either get on their fitness level, which is very high since I live in a hilly area, ride alone, or walk away. The hilly terrain also makes easy routes about impossible to do. I've seen so many people attempt this sport only to walk away at no fault of their own. No rails to trails, not many safe roads, and no easy mtb trails. I drive two hour round trips for beginner rides.


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

For all intents and purposes, I stopped mountain biking about five years ago.

I didn't make a 33 minute video of prepared remarks as to why. I just re-assessed my own risks and interests.

But I still pretend ..I mean, I keep upgrading my bike, and hang out on here....


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

rockcrusher said:


> I work in an industry that is a blend of art and science and a lot of people come to it from the art side as it is their passion. Once they have to do their passion for a job, it tends to ruin that passion.
> 
> I am always surprised that people who put their passion as their job and then burn out on their passion are surprised. Passion is something that you do for you, for me that is mountain biking. I do it for me, if I had to perform to make people pay me money to do it, the need to constantly one up your previous video to keep those clicks, etc would be overwhelming.
> 
> ...


I'll push back on that a bit, as I have experience in turning a passion into a business. Did it for over a decade, and "walked away". Not because I grew to hate it or anything like that. I'm extremely grateful to have had the opportunity, and enjoyed it greatly, but eventually I just reached a point where I had done all I wanted to do with it, and it was time to move on. I'd encourage anyone who has the opportunity to turn their passion into a career to do so, but also to move on from it when the time is right, go back to hobby status when the time is right. Like Harold said, people will always know who you are, and you have to be cool with that. I actually enjoy hearing from people in that world occasionally, even though I'm not part of it anymore.


.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

_CJ said:


> I'll push back on that a bit, as I have experience in turning a passion into a business. Did it for over a decade, and "walked away". Not because I grew to hate it or anything like that. I'm extremely grateful to have had the opportunity, and enjoyed it greatly, but eventually I just reached a point where I had done all I wanted to do with it, and it was time to move on. I'd encourage anyone who has the opportunity to turn their passion into a career to do so, but also to move on from it when the time is right, go back to hobby status when the time is right. Like Harold said, people will always know who you are, and you have to be cool with that. I actually enjoy hearing from people in that world occasionally, even though I'm not part of it anymore.
> 
> 
> .


Good point! I hate to see people that push a passion so hard that they walk away completely, which is seems like Paul the Punter has done. Sold his bikes, etc. just done. You have to recognize when you are at the tipping point and withdraw, if you can. I think the thing with youtuber and social media influencers is that it is hard to walk away. I can't even imagine what a high stress job it must be.


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## sacrefrancais (Nov 15, 2010)

ghettocruiser said:


> For all intents and purposes, I stopped mountain biking about five years ago.
> 
> I didn't make a 33 minute video of prepared remarks as to why. I just re-assessed my own risks and interests.
> 
> But I still pretend ..I mean, I keep upgrading my bike, and hang out on here....


To me, working on a bike is at least as satisfying as riding. Both are my forms of meditation. Good on you for keeping it up; it gives me something to look forward to if ever I stop riding for one reason or another.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I met a holes in hiking group too. They want to make speed record climb to the mountain. I have asthma so I walk normal speed. The group leader got upset at me for walking slow. He even mentioned the issue again a year later in the email. 

Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Ogre said:


> Don't get it. I pick who I ride with, if someone is an AH I don't ride with them.
> 
> Instead of quitting mountain biking because of toxic people... how about just quitting the toxic people?
> 
> Or just get out of the crowded bike parks near the city and ride alone.


Yeah, I don't ride the standard bike park stuff that's congested with people(other than getting to another track that isnt). I Ride the double black and or go remote into the wilderness. You will have the tracks to yourself or you will only see the hardcore. Usually the hardcore crew arent the dicks its the medium core that think they are hardcore often act like a bag of dicks....

Also if everyone is an arsehole..... you are the arsehole. (not you but op)..... If you think everyone is the dick. The dick is you. 

I did this heli drop from the top of a mountain earlier this year. It took 3 1/2 hours to get from the mountain top to civilization. 

We came across a few hardened trampers (who were cool people) and then nothing for 2 1/2 hours. Withing 1/2 of town the track started getting more congested. The closer we got to town the fatter and the more self-righteous the people became. It was starkly obvious and hilarious!


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Another thought here. 

If you are having trouble seeing the good side of the mountain bike community, put on or just show up to all of the build days. Even the most annoying people are tolerable when you are working together towards a common goal. Even the biggest AH is your friend if you have a shovel in hand. And if he's not.... you can always whack him with the shovel.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Ogre said:


> Another thought here.
> 
> If you are having trouble seeing the good side of the mountain bike community, put on or just show up to all of the build days. Even the most annoying people are tolerable when you are working together towards a common goal. Even the biggest AH is your friend if you have a shovel in hand. And if he's not.... you can always whack him with the shovel.


Definitely not always so. I've met a number of people who I can ride with no problem, but who become intolerable on trail days.

In fact, I got burned out pretty bad on trail work because of how negatively those volunteers are often treated by trail users.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Harold said:


> Definitely not always so. I've met a number of people who I can ride with no problem, but who become intolerable on trail days.
> 
> In fact, I got burned out pretty bad on trail work because of how negatively those volunteers are often treated by trail users.


Did you smack them with the shovel?


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Looks like being on social media ruined mountain biking for him.


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## DGUSMC (Jan 29, 2021)

plummet said:


> Also if everyone is an arsehole..... you are the arsehole. (not you but op)..... If you think everyone is the dick. The dick is you.


Priceless!


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## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

Sparticus said:


> Yeah, man! Picking lines -- it's about picking lines for me. Whatever. I might even like white water kayaking... dunno, never tried it. But it involves picking lines so... maybe.
> =sParty


I equate whitewater boating to tight tree skiing... because once you drop in you have no brakes, just hope to catch an eddy or catch a pocket in between trees if you decide you want to stop. I have been very heavily into all three over the years but lately mtn bike 99% of the time due to the amount of available free time I have.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

Monty219 said:


> I equate whitewater boating to tight tree skiing... because once you drop in you have no brakes, just hope to catch an eddy or catch a pocket in between trees if you decide you want to stop. I have been very heavily into all three over the years but lately mtn bike 99% of the time due to the amount of available free time I have.


Riding steep chutes on an mtb can be like that.


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

I watched it. (At 1.5x speed, because good lord he doesn't know how to get to the point.)

Seems like he fell in with a toxic crowd and that poisoned him.

My experience has been the exact opposite. I had the good fortune of riding with a true OG - who rode in Gary Fisher's crowd early on. (Yes, he had proof, and he only showed me once and didn't make a big deal out of it.) And even though he was one of the strongest riders I've ever known, he never pushed me beyond my limits. He was encouraging, sure, but there were plenty of situations he'd stop and say 'you should walk this part, it's too risky'.

After that, I also found a peer group that was chill and cool, and we always rode at our own pace, never any testosterone bullshit. Just enjoying the woods and the exercise, and a beer afterwards.

It feels like he never learned how to enjoy riding alone. If he did, he'd have been able to leave those toxic situations earlier, and pick his 'crowd' better.


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## 2sharp7 (Aug 29, 2013)

A lot of haters here it seems. I never really cared for his style or personality either but I watched this video and found it interesting, even if I don't agree with what he's saying. I do think he has a point about the community being king of extreme in general, with the emphasis on doing bigger, better, faster, etc stuff all the time. It may just be how we're perceived I guess; I have met people that watch Red Bull rampage and think that's what I do as a mountain biker, when in actuality I'm nowhere near doing stuff like that. I feel like I have a healthy dose of fear and prevention in my riding and in 10 years of mtb'ing now at age 56, it's kept me from serious injury while still allowing myself plenty of thrills and chills out on the trail. I've taken a couple of people on mellow trail rides (green/blue trails), who it scared enough to not want to do it again, so I guess everyone's just wired differently.


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## Tallboy723 (4 mo ago)

Lol. I didn’t watch any of the video. Just read a few comments, posted this and moved on.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

sacrefrancais said:


> I'll admit to having no idea who this guy is, nor having sat thru his video, but I can't help but wonder about the connection between having followers and his feelings toward the sport, like you might constantly be trying to determine if you're biking for yourself, or your followers. All it would take is having an off day or week and suddenly you can't tell the difference anymore. Whereas for me, I look it as a temporary hiatus. Like others have mentioned, sometimes you just need a break.


It seems like with YouTube channels each video has to be at least as good as the previous one to keep peoples' interest. Each bike ride video has to be interesting in some way. That's some pressure to perform right there. I can for certain say that not every one of my rides is interesting. However, I ride for fitness, exercise, and personal joy. I don't ride to entertain others so there's no pressure.

I follow this one YT channel of a guy who started traveling and living out of his Jeep about five years ago. His entire thing is that he's mobile. His channel apparently got popular enough that he stopped his day job as an IT guy, but now he's 100% dependent on living out of his car to survive. It sounds romantic for awhile but is that something a guy could keep up for an entire career? Imaging living out of your car for 30 years. What a mixed blessing.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Notes the contrast between how people act cordially when face-to-face, but and how people are judgemental when not face-to-face.

Says the "waking up point" involved crossing the border to the US.

So, basically he's taken note of the culture created by religion and morals, around drawing the lines between good/bad & right/wrong? How those type A personalities basically weave around the judgement to get ahead? Decided he didn't want to be one of those, and wanted to shed the influence?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Picard said:


> Why is he a jerk?
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


You know when you meet someone and they're kind of caustic? You might not be able to dissect exactly what it is you don't like about them but you know you're not going to hang out any time soon. It's like that. With all of the YT channels out there I watched a bunch of his years ago then moved on because he rubbed me the wrong way.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

I don't have the patience read all of this thread or to watch this video (or most other mtb videos), but my first thought upon seeing the thumbnail and the title is that this isn't an airport and he doesn't need to announce his departure.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

I can't be bothered to watch the vid, but reading the commentary has been fun.

Many many years ago, I learned that turning something you love into a job can ruin it. For me, it was running. I was damn good at running. Got a scholarship to University, which I happily accepted. Got to college and after 1.5 years realized that I freaking hated doing it for a job, living up to someone else's expectations, etc. To my parents' financial burden, I quit the team and started mountain biking (at my mom's suggestion).

I vowed to never be so serious about my other passions (mountain biking, rock climbing, and photography) that I end up hating them. I've learned to recognize when I'm getting to that tipping point and back off or switch to something else for a bit. Wisdom I suppose. I probably could have used some of that back when I quit running.


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## vitaflo (Mar 6, 2021)

Sounded like a good bye message to his subscribers to me (he's got 181,000 of them). Nothing wrong with that.

I can't relate to any of the toxic or "send it" vibes he was talking about. A vast majority of riders I've interacted with on trail are super cool, friendly and supportive. All the people I ride with are also cool with people of different skill levels. Even the ex-pro I used to ride with was cool. We'd just try to keep up with him and and never could so he'd use it as an opportunity to try and lap us. Everyone still had fun. If someone was toxic or pushing people to do stuff that they obviously couldn't, I just wouldn't ride with them. Thankfully I've never come across anyone like that on the trail.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Camaraderie is nice, but it's not real friendship IMO. It's like meeting peers outside of class/work, to share similar interests. Hanging out with these types, it's like a custom to pressure people to venture out of their comfort zone.

Buddies take that a bit further, being a bit more comfortable 1-on-1, and developing memories together, as if sharing secrets. Can do the whole "what goes on in Vegas, stays in Vegas" thing with these types.

True friendship goes even deeper, sharing private lives, and investing in each others' well-being in a way where you'd value the other person at least as much as yourself.

This kind of perspective has made me walk away from social groups that were seemingly hazardous to my health (e.g. WoW mmo addiction).


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

baker said:


> I learned that turning something you love into a job can ruin it.


He calls out several times that this wasn't it. Not directly, anyway.

I do suspect that the nature of what he did exposed him more to some of the crappier aspects of mtb culture. More of the toxic "send it, bro" type culture than most riders engage in or expose themselves to. I went to the Sedona MTB fest a number of years ago, and while the riding I personally did there wasn't like that, I did see quite a bit of that part of it. 

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that part of that might have been due to how people perceived him as a YouTube celebrity. He's probably viewed that way by quite a few, and some people try hard to impress him, and want him to be impressed by them. Those people gravitate to the youtuber "celebrities" and I suspect that in addition to being exhausting, there's probably a higher proportion of the negative aspects of the mtb community involved. I've seen it with how some other people behave around Seth and Bobo, and I'll bet that other popular youtubers experience it, too. Seth seems like he's able to filter through it and ignore the parts of it that he doesn't like, at least outwardly, but it seemed to me like Bobo is constantly putting on an act to encourage it. That part has to be incredibly exhausting.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Ogre said:


> Did you smack them with the shovel?


I'm not keen on murder charges.


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## JK-47 (Apr 22, 2021)

Probably couldn't make enough money off his channel and it became a chore.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I don’t find bike parks to be toxic at all. There might be other people there (horrors!) but that’s what makes a party fun. Who wants to go to a party where no one else is there?

OTOH trail riding can sometimes have this territorial vibe like “why are you crowding up my trail?” You guys all know that vibe. “Some a-hole wouldn’t yield,” or “some d-head was going opposite the main direction” or something like that. Then you have the whole bikers v. hikers v. equestrians v. E-bikers etc. There’s none of that in a park.


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## DaveRider (Jul 14, 2014)

I'm not going to watch that but I'm thinking about hanging it up. I bought a new 125 cc motorcycle for $1200. It would cost over $3000 to replace my 12 year old 26" fs mtb with a new one.


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## Clyde Ride (Jun 7, 2019)

DaveRider said:


> I'm not going to watch that but I'm thinking about hanging it up. I bought a new 125 cc motorcycle for $1200. It would cost over $3000 to replace my 12 year old 26" fs mtb with a new one.


OK


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

I did watch the whole thing. It was vaguely annoying and felt a little self-indulgent, but as an "influencer" with a lot of followers, it was nice to do.

Despite his protestations to the contrary, I think making a job out if highly influenced his discontent, for many of the reasons cited here. It's impossible to know what caused what or why he feels the way he does, but I don't think he wants to admit to himself that he might have fouled up a perfectly good hobby by making a "career" out of it.

Like many have said, sometimes you just need to take a hiatus from something for a week, a month, six months, a year, for various reasons. When it's your job, that is hard to do and puts things on an unnatural course.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

Yes, everyone should quit mountain biking. Less crowded trails for me!


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Harold said:


> I'm not keen on murder charges.


Murder?? What the hell's wrong with you Harold? Haven't you developed the fine martial art of smacking someone with a shovel without killing them? It's an incredibly useful skill in this crazy, mixed-up world that we live in.


And if there happens to be an "accident", well you have a shovel and you're way out in the woods. You can figure out what to do from there.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

JK-47 said:


> Probably couldn't make enough money off his channel and it became a chore.


Yep. That's the best way to kill something you love: turn it into a job.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Harold said:


> I do suspect that the nature of what he did exposed him more to some of the crappier aspects of mtb culture. More of the toxic "send it, bro" type culture than most riders engage in or expose themselves to. I went to the Sedona MTB fest a number of years ago, and while the riding I personally did there wasn't like that, I did see quite a bit of that part of it.


Your analysis is probably spot-on, but this jumps out at me. As in: jeebus, WTF. There’s no shortage of this attitude in skiing, but almost everyone manages to ignore it and ski on their own terms. Maybe go to a Banff Film Festival show or Warren Miller movie every year to get a whiff of it. 

I work directly or indirectly with a lot of enduro races. I definitely see this culture. But with any individual pursuit, you have to make it what you want to do. 

Making it a YouTube outlet put him on a trajectory out of what he perceived to be his control. That’s a shame. Social media pretty much sucks. My wife is a child and family counselor. A lot of her kid clients aspire to be professional gamers with their own YT channels. Or makeup tutorials. Or whatever else TF.

ETA: In short I see this as evidence of the problems with social media “influencer” culture rather than a larger problem springing from a small subset of MTB culture.


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## GOOOO (Mar 20, 2008)

_CJ said:


> I stumbled across this guy's video yesterday. Have no idea who he is, haven't watched any of his other videos, but I think he makes some very good points about what's going on in the MTB world these days. I see a lot of the same in other sports/hobbies, so maybe it's more of a societal issue? or, maybe it's just par for the course with competitive type A personalities that seem to be so prevalent in cycling? For sure, a lot of what he talks about can apply equally to roadies too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He lost me at 1:25. LOL. I still enjoy MTB and I don't have time to listen to 30 min of... IDK, he lost me. But best of luck to him, whatever he does!


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

GOOOO said:


> He lost me at 1:25. LOL. I still enjoy MTB and I don't have time to listen to 30 min of... IDK, he lost me. But best of luck to him, whatever he does!


I understand that you couldn’t make it through the whole video, I just hope you didn’t forget to “smash that LIKE button”


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## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

I listened to the whole thing... he strikes me as a combination of judgmental and insecure. With some complaining about how the world has done him wrong.

It's hard for me to have much sympathy for him... since I ride infrequently -- when I can get a chance between job and family obligations... on our relatively boring Midwest trails... on a well-worn secondhand bike.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

phantoj said:


> I listened to the whole thing... he strikes me as a combination of judgmental and insecure. With some complaining about how the world has done him wrong.
> 
> It's hard for me to have much sympathy for him... since I ride infrequently -- when I can get a chance between job and family obligations... on our relatively boring Midwest trails... on a well-worn secondhand bike.


Time for you to get a new Trek Roscoe and start getting paid to ride


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## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

Also, seems like he's really pivoting into golf...


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## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

Sir kayakalot said:


> Time for you to get a new Trek Roscoe and start getting paid to ride


I would recommend the 7 model.


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## mcarter76 (Jun 3, 2017)

Got too many other YouTube videos I'd like to watch first, but we have a segment on one of my regular trails affectionately named "NO KOOKS SPRINT" in Strava. It's a steep 21% grade that really gets the heart pumping. Now I will think of this guy each time I clean it... 😁

UPDATE: Jokes aside, I did eventually watch the first 2-3 min of this video, and it does make sense. Yet there's no incentive to watch further as a non-subscriber. Totally get the part about ruining a hobby by turning it into a job. This happened to me after a 15-20 year career in software engineering. Now that I only do it as a freelancer, it's sort of become a hobby again and some of the original passion has returned.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

I watched the whole thing last night because I didn’t have anything better to do. I’ve watched a handful of his videos in the past but they weren’t my cup of tea. Seems like a nice enough guy though.

It mostly fascinated me that someone could just up and quit; sell all the bikes and be completely done. That would be unfathomable to me. I’ve been a proud addict for a good 37 years…

He stated that the main reason for quitting is the “send it” culture and watching people ride over their heads; that and holier than thou attitudes. He also mentioned just not having fun riding anymore. I wonder if he was ever actually having fun, or if it was always just the social aspect of riding. It sounded like the latter.

Those attitudes and cultures are present in a lot of different sports, not just mountain biking. Just find a different crowd.

In any case, I still can’t understand quitting. But then again, I don’t need the presence of others to be absolutely fulfilled on every ride. For me it is very much a solo sport and I prefer not to encounter or talk to anyone while I do it. Also, I think he’s being delusional saying that it “wasn’t making a career out of it” that drove him away. I would be concerned about the mental toll on anyone involved in being a YouTube influencer. That **** is not sustainable for most normal people…


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

evasive said:


> Making it a YouTube outlet put him on a trajectory out of what he perceived to be his control. That’s a shame. Social media pretty much sucks. My wife is a child and family counselor. A lot of her kid clients aspire to be professional gamers with their own YT channels. Or makeup tutorials. Or whatever else TF.
> 
> ETA: In short I see this as evidence of the problems with social media “influencer” culture rather than a larger problem springing from a small subset of MTB culture.


I definitely see both aspects combining on this. I'm not sure it's really possible to separate them away from each other.

the days of it being easy to be an influencer of some sort as your day job are long gone. they were really very short-lived when there wasn't even a name for it. nowadays, sure, there are people who are successful at it. but it's hard f*cking work. and just like with any on-screen profession, there are intangibles that you either have or you don't.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

cookieMonster said:


> In any case, I still can’t understand quitting. But then again, I don’t need the presence of others to be absolutely fulfilled on every ride. For me it is very much a solo sport and I prefer not to encounter or talk to anyone while I do it. Also, I think he’s being delusional saying that it “wasn’t making a career out of it” that drove him away. I would be concerned about the mental toll on anyone involved in being a YouTube influencer. That **** is not sustainable for most normal people…


As a YouTuber you'd _always_ have eyes on you. That would get old in a hurry. Other YouTubers have quietly stopped producing videos but they just kind of disappeared without any flourish. They could easily pick up the camera again if they decided to later on.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Harold said:


> there are intangibles that you either have or you don't.


Is that what we're calling boobs nowadays?


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## RLTW (5 mo ago)

Midlife crisis sounds like. Judging by the videos I see on YouTube, mountain biking is not the young man’s sport it once almost entirely was. I am no longer as young as I used to be, and find injuries more painful than before not to mention taking longer to recover. All I can do is dial it back a little and ride mire carefully.


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## Tinstigator (Jun 28, 2016)

Anyone who starts a vid on gimp tube with "hello punters" deserves to be called out as a beetch ass coont of the highest order.

To then whinge no doubt bout quiting is next level bull 💩


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Nat said:


> Is that what we're calling boobs nowadays?


well, I think you might be onto something regarding the success of social media influencers in a broader sense.


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## Tinstigator (Jun 28, 2016)

The pure toxicity of marketing and beetchy influencers making easy living for their side hustling antics.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

OMG, I tried, but gave up after 10 minutes. I will just say it, he is a whiny b**tch. All I took from it was he tried it and decided it wasn’t his thing at some point. Some ride for a while because they think it is fun. Some because it is cool. Some apparently to make a living on youtube. Great, if you enjoy it do it, if not, don’t. 

I ride because it is my sanity, it is my happiness. I don’t care if I am the fastest, slowest, best, or worst. Riding has been my go to to escape life, it is my time and only mine. If that changes, I don’t feel the need to go explain to anyone for 30 minutes why, no more than I used to play tennis and then stopped: I didn’t find pleasure in it anymore.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

What a looser. I'm coming back from a serious knee injury and thankful to be getting back on the trails.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

Watched the whole video before this thread even turned up, I was curious where he had gotten to but I didn't really miss his videos that much. 

I have ridden MTBs on and off since 1987, every now and then I just find other things to be of more interest eg Dirt bikes and guns. 

Gave up MTB racing(DH/Enduro) mostly because it wasn't fun anymore and was expensive, Giving up on racing was good but letting the training for racing go was Very bad(so unfit it's not funny now) Still i go riding with some good people and enjoy it, even riding by myself is good.

People can ruin anything, there are plenty of doosh canoes out there just avoid them and it's all good.

Sold off the dirt bikes(i still love motorcycles they are just too expensive to bother with now) which has alienated a bunch of "friends"(one point he brings up) which just makes me put those "friends" into the acquaintance category. 

Meh just follow what you enjoy


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## FatboyFarleyFuse1977 (Jan 29, 2020)

Another video moron trying to get hits and cash. Who the **** cares?!?!


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

rockcrusher said:


> Good point! I hate to see people that push a passion so hard that they walk away completely, which is seems like Paul the Punter has done. Sold his bikes, etc. just done.


My best friend owned a bike shop and that's exactly what he did. Turned his passion into a business, he had to run the business like a business so we no longer got to hang out after rides, and he sold everything. He no longer even owns a bike.


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Tinstigator said:


> Anyone who starts a vid on gimp tube with "hello punters" deserves to be called out as a beetch ass coont of the highest order.
> 
> To then whinge no doubt bout quiting is next level bull 💩


The MTBTips dude was originally one of the most popular mountain bikers on YouTube for instructional content, pre-Seth and that crew. He used to call his viewers "groovers", which is kindof hilarious considering a groover is an ammo can you take a **** in while camping.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Adodero said:


> The MTBTips dude was originally one of the most popular mountain bikers, pre-Seth and that crew. He used to call his viewers "groovers", which is kindof hilarious considering a groover is an ammo can you take a **** in while camping.


So he's like Ned Overend or Sean Palmer? How come I've never heard of him?


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## Canssago (9 mo ago)

I don't get it. I ride alone 95% of the time for fitness and to be one with the trail. I don't need anyone's help, group or opinion to ride or hit a feature. I race multiple times a year, pay the fee, get on the line and go home. I don't talk to people at the races, I am there to win, go fast and perform at the best of my ability, if it is last place or first place. 

The one dude I sometimes ride with is a fast rider and we will go for several hours and maybe speak 10 words, we don't stop or try to get each other to ride a feature, we either ride it or not. 

The guy in the video is exactly why I do not ride with others, shut up already and ride and put the phone or camera down and flow!


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Jayem said:


> So he's like Ned Overend or Sean Palmer? How come I've never heard of him?


I meant to add "mountain bikers on YouTube", I left the YT part out and that's an important detail. This was ~8 years ago, before mountain biking youtube took off, some of his videos had >1m views. When you searched for instructional content, he was always the first one to come up.

Strangely, he's removed a lot of his videos, I haven't looked at his page in years but a lot of stuff I knew was there is now gone, including him attaching a GoPro to a 6ft piece of PVC and recording himself. To be blunt, some of his content kinda sucked, his "drop" video was basically him rolling down a 6ft high chute, most of his other videos were pretty off, even for the time, but the only real instructional content on YT at the time. He did have some good stuff though, for those starting out.

After Seth came around, it seems like the situation we have now started. I know Chris (mtbtips dude) got a lot of negative comments on his videos in recent years (some justified, some not), so I guess he removed it to avoid having to deal with the comments.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

theMISSIONARY said:


> Watched the whole video


My wife frequently subjects me to some really bad TV. Gilmore Girls, Sleepless in Seattle, Walking Dead… you get the point. I have developed the ability to half watch/daydream through the worst of them. 

You my friend are next level.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

TL;DW
More trails for the rest of us.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

EatsDirt said:


> My wife frequently subjects me to some really bad TV. Gilmore Girls, Sleepless in Seattle, Walking Dead… you get the point. I have developed the ability to half watch/daydream through the worst of them.
> 
> You my friend are next level.


I have suffered through so many OH&S and Inductions that I can be numb but look attentive


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## Blue Dot Trail (May 30, 2018)

I see he didn’t delete his youtube channel though. Shame.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Since this guy is leaving a great void of unridden trails, I've decided I need to ride twice as much to make up for it.

It'll be tough, but someone has to do it.


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## Dunnigan (9 mo ago)

Mountain biking is not an airport. You don’t have to announce your departure.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Dunnigan said:


> Mountain biking is not an airport. You don’t have to announce your departure.


Attention Youtube celebrities: Elvis has left the building.


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Dunnigan said:


> Mountain biking is not an airport. You don’t have to announce your departure.


Apparently HE felt he had to...


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## natas1321 (Nov 4, 2017)

if he wants to walk away from mountain biking then great, but why make a big deal about it, just go on with your interests and continue with life. We all have moved on from other hobbies, activities, interests and did not have to announce it.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

natas1321 said:


> if he wants to walk away from mountain biking then great, but why make a big deal about it, just go on with your interests and continue with life. We all have moved on from other hobbies, activities, interests and did not have to announce it.


If you are the sort of person who makes a YouTube Chanel to talk about mountain biking... it kind of makes sense that you'd also be the kind of person who makes a video talking about not mountain biking.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Not clicking.
Sound good, one less person on the trails, yay lol.



Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## gnatsOnTeeth (Mar 2, 2019)

_CJ said:


> I stumbled across this guy's video yesterday. Have no idea who he is, haven't watched any of his other videos, but I think he makes some very good points . . .


How can you not get a smile on your face within seconds riding a bicycle?

Danger. Before MTB there was Nordic and Alpine skiing. My preference is getting up the hill under your own power (Nordic) and how you feel at the top informing you of what you are ready for on the descent. Too much time on the trampoline? Get ready for a fall. One last time up the lift at the end of a tiring day? Just send it! oops . . . 

Experience. Closer to nature, or depend on machines like cars, lifts, and plug-ins. Paul who Punted could not ride without powered machines.

Amazing. Like bull riders of Crete, what people are able to do. Like the things Kyle Strait has done, and then, too close to the sun.

(read this whole thread first, and most of the vid the day it came out. Because I wondered how could someone not like riding a bicycle? And worse then trade it in for golf? That _is_ like Vodka and cottage cheese!)


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## tootalltim (5 mo ago)

Don't worry, two more Youtubers will sprout up in his place...

In seriousness though, if he's not happy with riding, good on him for admitting it and moving on. I think a lot of people are scared of losing face by admitting they're not happy in their life, they'd be much happier if they did something else. I didn't watch the whole video, because personally I think life's too short to waste my time on watching #likeandsubscribe #content - is he carrying on his channel/income, or switching completely?


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## Tinstigator (Jun 28, 2016)

Sounds like there's more to his saddo life than given away in vid that I watched all of or wasted all of 8 secs.

Sort it out punter 😛


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## Twilight Error (Jan 12, 2004)

<1 minute. 

He doesn't owe anyone any explanation or justification, nor to we all need one. "It isn't much fun for me, I'm going to try something else, have a good ride" is _all_ he had to say if he in fact had to say anything at all.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Twilight Error said:


> <1 minute.
> 
> He doesn't owe anyone any explanation or justification, nor to we all need one. "It isn't much fun for me, I'm going to try something else, have a good ride" is _all_ he had to say if he in fact had to say anything at all.


Yeah. I used to run. One day I just got tired of it, realized it was boring and painful, and literally stopped mid-run and took a bus home. And I had been a runner for over 25 years. I didn't write a dissertation about it. I just stopped liking it, gradually at first and then....precipitously.

And I confess I was obsessed with running in way I never have been with cycling.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Why would I care why someone else chose to stop mountain biking?

You all are getting waay too concerned about what others think, seriously, I can’t even think of a reason to click on that video.

Go ride your damn bike!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Harold said:


> He does speak a lot of truths. I mostly can't watch mtb videos, though. From anyone. Lots of reasons I won't cover because they're not really relevant here.
> 
> Some of the things he referred to don't really keep me away from riding because I'm at peace with how to navigate those things.
> 
> ...


Harold, we all “knew” about your ADHD ages ago, why not ask us?

🤣


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Harold said:


> He calls out several times that this wasn't it. Not directly, anyway.
> 
> I do suspect that the nature of what he did exposed him more to some of the crappier aspects of mtb culture. More of the toxic "send it, bro" type culture than most riders engage in or expose themselves to. I went to the Sedona MTB fest a number of years ago, and while the riding I personally did there wasn't like that, I did see quite a bit of that part of it.
> 
> I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that part of that might have been due to how people perceived him as a YouTube celebrity. He's probably viewed that way by quite a few, and some people try hard to impress him, and want him to be impressed by them. Those people gravitate to the youtuber "celebrities" and I suspect that in addition to being exhausting, there's probably a higher proportion of the negative aspects of the mtb community involved. I've seen it with how some other people behave around Seth and Bobo, and I'll bet that other popular youtubers experience it, too. Seth seems like he's able to filter through it and ignore the parts of it that he doesn't like, at least outwardly, but it seemed to me like Bobo is constantly putting on an act to encourage it. That part has to be incredibly exhausting.


I listened to a podcast with Seth, and he said he had to seek therapy to learn how to deal with of all the negativity and BS that comes with the job.


.


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## CEB (Mar 17, 2005)

We all have some "hang ups". Best to keep it (them) to yourself or your clinical psychologist. My hang up with mountain biking is well.... I CAN'T hang it up. So I visit with my inner cycologist daily (when possible). 32+ years already, glad it isn't heroin, it could be one bad a** addiction. Ride on my brothers and sisters. Smile and say hi as you pass by. CHEERS~!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

“Quitting mountain biking”

Is that even legal?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

_CJ said:


> I listened to a podcast with Seth, and he said he had to seek therapy to learn how to deal with of all the negativity and BS that comes with the job.
> 
> 
> .


I can't say I'm surprised.


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## edbraunbeck (Apr 28, 2007)

Dan Zulu said:


> I made it two minutes and gave up. Did he ever get to a point?


 Same here. As I commented, I'm going to go ride my mountain bike.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

_CJ said:


> I listened to a podcast with Seth, and he said he had to seek therapy to learn how to deal with of all the negativity and BS that comes with the job.
> 
> 
> .


I thought the riding part WAS the therapy?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Sanchofula said:


> Why would I care why someone else chose to stop mountain biking?
> 
> You all are getting waay too concerned about what others think, seriously, I can’t even think of a reason to click on that video.
> 
> Go ride your damn bike!


Dude, that's basically what everyone's been saying


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## Iranian-Mechanic (May 6, 2004)

_CJ said:


> I stumbled across this guy's video yesterday. Have no idea who he is, haven't watched any of his other videos, but I think he makes some very good points about what's going on in the MTB world these days. I see a lot of the same in other sports/hobbies, so maybe it's more of a societal issue? or, maybe it's just par for the course with competitive type A personalities that seem to be so prevalent in cycling? For sure, a lot of what he talks about can apply equally to roadies too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why didnt he provide his reason ? for doing so ?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Sanchofula said:


> Why would I care why someone else chose to stop mountain biking?
> 
> You all are getting waay too concerned about what others think, seriously, I can’t even think of a reason to click on that video.
> 
> Go ride your damn bike!


Indeed!



Le Duke said:


> I thought the riding part WAS the therapy?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


'Zactly!


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

I liked Paul's videos and enjoyed his "progress" in the sport. I think he made some decent points about pushing people beyond their abilities. Other than that, it's explaining how he didn't burn out on his sport by making it his business. 

The sort version: He burned out and doesn't enjoy MTB. He states over and over it's not because it became his business. But that doesn't sound accurate as history regularly shows that making a hobby a business takes the fun out of the hobby. If you never watched his stuff in the past, you have no reason to watch. But if you did watch his stuff, it's a good bookend to his channel. 

He's now into golf. So I'd expect golf related things from him in the future.


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## cliffk (Oct 17, 2005)

What a mid-life crisis. Seems like this professional Mtbr never moved on to bigger and more fulfilling things. I think that he missed his true calling, probably time for a life change. These things can sneak up on you particularly if you are earning a living from it and you no longer like it. I've been riding since 1985 and now I'm 74, I'm a professional Mt biker but I really find the camraderie, the exercise and challenge very fulfilling. Most of all I've refined my skill set to think of myself as one of the few Mt bike instructors that can take most novice riders and get them into Mt biking for life. I like witnessing the A Ha moments with new riders. There are so many fine points that many riders take for granted. Remember we all once were Novices.


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## boostin (Apr 21, 2008)

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.


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## Sucker Punch (9 mo ago)

Hopefully this is a sign of the beginning of the end of the 'influencer' generation, at least where cycling is concerned. Everyone's gotta earn a living, but I'd like to see the field of influencer get retired as a career.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

cliffk said:


> Remember we all once were Novices.


Not too many are willing to acknowledge that one statement.



boostin said:


> Don't let the door hitcha where the good Lord splitcha!


Feexed it fer ya.


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## BackWoodsHick (4 mo ago)

I just want to make sure everyone knows my airplane flight will be taking off in 2 days, 4 hours and 31 minutes from now.


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## BackWoodsHick (4 mo ago)

cliffk said:


> I've been riding since 1985 ...Remember we all once were Novices.


Me too, except I am still trying to work my way up ... to novice status.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Sucker Punch said:


> Hopefully this is a sign of the beginning of the end of the 'influencer' generation, at least where cycling is concerned. Everyone's gotta earn a living, but I'd like to see the field of influencer get retired as a career.


Yep! I hope it ends up wherever myspace went lol.

Actually, once enough parents and grandparents join it like the book of the faces, then the cool kids have to go do something else.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Gotta love all these bots with their "don't let the door hit you" replies in response to nothing but the title of the thread.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

_CJ said:


> Gotta love all these bots with their "don't let the door hit you" replies in response to nothing but the title of the thread.


The only folks that are "bots" as you claim are the ones that didn't click on the bait. No desire to either. 

Someone decided to end their riding, so bloody what! People stop doing all kinds of activities and don't go to this extent.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Did anybody actually watch that video in it’s entirety? I made it about 40 seconds in.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Did anybody actually watch that video in it’s entirety? I made it about 40 seconds in.



Wut, you fell for the bait? 
DJ, you're a trout in a frying pan!


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## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

Lee McCormack had a response video that was about as long as the PTP one:






I think Lee made a few good points or at least interesting observations. I forgot which one I wanted to mention, though. Maybe it will come back to me.


EDIT -- now I remember, I liked what Lee was saying about the self deprecation being toxic. Just don't do it. Be humble and honest but don't put yourself down.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

BansheeRune said:


> Wut, you fell for the bait?
> DJ, you're a trout in a frying pan!


Hey at least I jumped ship before the skin became crispy.


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## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

I don't think the culture of, "send it, bro! you can do it!" is toxic though. I think it's a positive thing to have random people cheering you on.

You still have to know what's above your abilities, though.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

phantoj said:


> I don't think the culture of, "send it, bro! you can do it!" is toxic though. I think it's a positive thing to have random people cheering you on.
> 
> You still have to know what's above your abilities, though.


Agreed!

While there are plenty of toxic people in the ranks, having seen the scene morph from the days of the klunkers which goes back into the 60's, people were far kinder, more courteous and in it for the fun factor. The roadie segment called us a buncha stoners, they were partly right however, we saw that segment as a mostly pompous, uptight group. We egged one another on to do stupid things, yes. But we weren't arrogant asshats that disparaged people for the sake of doing so. The recent times has displayed a part of society that is pathetic at best. 

Proper progression will take a bloke to the edge of their pay grade or they are going to be stagnant in that regard.


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## BackWoodsHick (4 mo ago)

phantoj said:


> I don't think the culture of, "send it, bro! you can do it!" is toxic though. I think it's a positive thing to have random people cheering you on.
> 
> You still have to know what's above your abilities, though.


They are doing this because they are hoping to scavenge your hubs.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

BackWoodsHick said:


> They are doing this because they are hoping to scavenge your hubs.


Folks in da 'hood have been stealing hubcaps for (cough) hubs for years.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

phantoj said:


> I don't think the culture of, "send it, bro! you can do it!" is toxic though. I think it's a positive thing to have random people cheering you on.
> 
> You still have to know what's above your abilities, though.


Yes, I consider it encouragement. Everyone should have a friend in charge of hype.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Sucker Punch said:


> Hopefully this is a sign of the beginning of the end of the 'influencer' generation, at least where cycling is concerned. Everyone's gotta earn a living, but I'd like to see the field of influencer get retired as a career.


I never understood the busIness model: I have some people that follow what I do, so give me free crap. Yet, many bike manufacturers jumped in hook, line and sinker removing support from amateur racing to influencers. I for one am far more impressed when manufacturers support things like NICA and trail building than giving a bike to someone on the internet.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

BansheeRune said:


> The only folks that are "bots" as you claim are the ones that didn't click on the bait. No desire to either.


Can't be bothered to watch the video, but somehow have time to comment about how they didn't watch the video, don't care, how they don't like the guy, how he shouldn't let the door hit him in the ass on the way out, argue about the video even though they can't be bothered to watch it?

I don't get it. Why bother at all? Do they think it makes them look cool or something? It doesn't. Don't like the topic? Don't like the guy? Don't want to watch the video and contribute meaningful content to the discussion? Move along. It's really that simple. Why waste your time and everyone else's? We're 10 pages deep now, and at least half the comments are people posturing about how they don't care. Oh really? Your comments say otherwise.


.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

_CJ said:


> Can't be bothered to watch the video, but somehow have time to comment about how they didn't watch the video, don't care, how they don't like the guy, how he shouldn't let the door hit him in the ass on the way out, argue about the video even though they can't be bothered to watch it?
> 
> I don't get it. Why bother at all? Do they think it makes them look cool or something? It doesn't. Don't like the topic? Don't like the guy? Don't want to watch the video and contribute meaningful content to the discussion? Move along. It's really that simple. Why waste your time and everyone else's?
> 
> ...


Pfft! Oh the drama, suppose folks should worship the ground they walk on. Just make sure to get your hopes up on that. They moved on from mountain biking and created a dissertation on their decision, C'st La Vie.


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## Grindup (9 mo ago)

Sparticus said:


> Yeah, man! Picking lines -- it's about picking lines for me. Whatever. I might even like white water kayaking... dunno, never tried it. But it involves picking lines so... maybe.
> =sParty


You probably would really enjoy the kayaking.


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## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

_CJ said:


> Gotta love all these bots with their "don't let the door hit you" replies in response to nothing but the title of the thread.


Bots?
Er why would someone run semi automated accounts on a mountain bike forum and have them post in some random thread about some dude’s youtube video?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

durask said:


> Bots?
> Er why would someone run semi automated accounts on a mountain bike forum and have them post in some random thread about some dude’s youtube video?


They're not bots


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Cary said:


> I never understood the busIness model: I have some people that follow what I do, so give me free crap. Yet, many bike manufacturers jumped in hook, line and sinker removing support from amateur racing to influencers. I for one am far more impressed when manufacturers support things like NICA and trail building than giving a bike to someone on the internet.


What's NICA?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Nat said:


> What's NICA?


_The National Interscholastic Cycling Association is an American non-profit organization that promotes youth mountain biking programs in the United States. NICA provides governance, leadership, and program support to regional interscholastic mountain biking organizations._









Home - NICA


24,000Student-Athletes0Active Leagues13,000Volunteer CoachesWHO WE AREFounded in 2009, the National Interscholastic Cycling Association (NICA) develops interscholastic mountain biking programs for student-athletes across the United States.Learn About NICACOACHES RESOURCESNICA coaches are role...




nationalmtb.org


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

durask said:


> Bots?
> Er why would someone run semi automated accounts on a mountain bike forum and have them post in some random thread about some dude’s youtube video?


Clicks man, it's all about the clicks. Got get that add revenue.

.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Nat said:


> They're not bots


That's exactly what a bot would say.


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

Sucker Punch said:


> Hopefully this is a sign of the beginning of the end of the 'influencer' generation, at least where cycling is concerned. Everyone's gotta earn a living, but I'd like to see the field of influencer get retired as a career.


I disagree to a point. MTB Youtubers seem to serve three purposes right now -

Comedy (Bobo, RealMTB, Calirado Kid)
Wow factor (GMBN, Jeff Lenoski)
Insight (GMBN Tech, Seth, Flow MTB, BKXC yes and Paul the Punter)

One area I'd like to see are influencers that aren't average height! How is MTBing different for a really tall rider? Only Doddy (GMBN Tech) seems to fit the bill but most of his content is high produced and sponsored by a few brands.

I like foreign review channels as they like to climb, pedal and do a few jumps rather than constantly send it down a gravity park in every video.

Those are my random thoughts. Thanks for reading


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

chazpat said:


> _The National Interscholastic Cycling Association is an American non-profit organization that promotes youth mountain biking programs in the United States. NICA provides governance, leadership, and program support to regional interscholastic mountain biking organizations._
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmm. Never heard of it. Maybe that's why they don't get manufacturer support? In the end it's about getting customers' eyes on your product.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Nat said:


> Hmmm. Never heard of it. Maybe that's why they don't get manufacturer support? In the end it's about getting customers' eyes on your product.


Yeah, who the hell has ever heard of any of these companies?!


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Nat said:


> Hmmm. Never heard of it. Maybe that's why they don't get manufacturer support? In the end it's about getting customers' eyes on your product.


I’m really surprised that you haven’t heard of NICA. It’s the best thing to come along in a while. Such a great alternative to football and basketball for the high schoolers. Thousands of youth have been exposed to the sport whom otherwise might not have been.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Sir kayakalot said:


> I’m really surprised that you haven’t heard of NICA. It’s the best thing to come along in a while. Such a great alternative to football and basketball for the high schoolers. Thousands of youth have been exposed to the sport whom otherwise might not have been.


Woulda been nice in my school years but all there was, football and BB, both of which were and are meh... Off to ride bikes in the dirt. Yay! Klunkers and good times.
NICA hasta be the slickest thing since sliced bread!

NICA support Lists many supporters that help make it happen.

A very cool organization. There are MTBR members that volunteer their time to directly support the students ride activities. A thank you to these fime folks for their community support.


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## benjpi (Mar 25, 2020)

Skipped the video, read some comments on pages 1 and 10, finished my beer. Riding a bike in the woods was awesome when I discovered it in 1989, and still is now. I've got lumps on the back of both hands from broken bones in my hands from the days of 26" wheels and long stems, and a permanent lump in my right shin from an OTB where I was convinced that looking down at the time the initial wound happened would make me vomit. I spent 30 years at the mast to open my own shop, and my commute during the summer is quite unnecessarily long as I can make it include about 7 miles of trail. If he didn't love it, I feel bad and don't understand why, but I'm not about to stop.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

phantoj said:


> Lee McCormack had a response video that was about as long as the PTP one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had never seen his channel, After listening to his constant gushing about "spirituality" and "feeling" I know I'll never be watching it again(it's more painful than the OP video) 

Rational Evidence-based first "feelings" last, Women excepted as they think in Feelings 🙄🤮 with almost no regard to reality


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## Canssago (9 mo ago)

cliffk said:


> What a mid-life crisis. Seems like this professional Mtbr never moved on to bigger and more fulfilling things. I think that he missed his true calling, probably time for a life change. These things can sneak up on you particularly if you are earning a living from it and you no longer like it. I've been riding since 1985 and now I'm 74, I'm a professional Mt biker but I really find the camraderie, the exercise and challenge very fulfilling. Most of all I've refined my skill set to think of myself as one of the few Mt bike instructors that can take most novice riders and get them into Mt biking for life. I like witnessing the A Ha moments with new riders. There are so many fine points that many riders take for granted. Remember we all once were Novices.


 Whoa, I was never a Novice, I raced BMX as a youngling!


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Adodero said:


> The MTBTips dude was originally one of the most popular mountain bikers on YouTube for instructional content, pre-Seth and that crew. He used to call his viewers "groovers", which is kindof hilarious considering a groover is an ammo can you take a **** in while camping.


I completely forgot about him. His was making videos when the 26er was still in. I watched his videos and then he basically just stopped making them.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

theMISSIONARY said:


> Rational Evidence-based first "feelings" last, Women excepted as they think in Feelings 🙄🤮 with almost no regard to reality


You left this out of your reply:




=sParty


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

_CJ said:


> Can't be bothered to watch the video, but somehow have time to comment about how they didn't watch the video, don't care, how they don't like the guy, how he shouldn't let the door hit him in the ass on the way out, argue about the video even though they can't be bothered to watch it?
> 
> I don't get it. Why bother at all? Do they think it makes them look cool or something? It doesn't. Don't like the topic? Don't like the guy? Don't want to watch the video and contribute meaningful content to the discussion? Move along. It's really that simple. Why waste your time and everyone else's? We're 10 pages deep now, and at least half the comments are people posturing about how they don't care. Oh really? Your comments say otherwise.
> 
> ...


Did you expect universal applause for some guy who’s so self important he needs to tell everyone he’s quitting the influencer game… in what could very well be the least engaging mtb video ever made?

I care. I want that 2min spent investigating your shitty post back.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

EatsDirt said:


> Did you expect universal applause for some guy who’s so self important he needs to tell everyone he’s quitting the influencer game… in what could very well be the least engaging mtb video ever made?
> 
> I care. I want that 2min spent investigating your shitty post back.


This is exactly what CJ wanted. A big, unanimous group cry. Didn’t get it, and is now angry at the “bots” that can’t be bothered with the ding dong doufus whining to the world about his ridiculous reason to quit mtb


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Sir kayakalot said:


> I’m really surprised that you haven’t heard of NICA. It’s the best thing to come along in a while. Such a great alternative to football and basketball for the high schoolers. Thousands of youth have been exposed to the sport whom otherwise might not have been.


Sounds like a good thing indeed. Not sure why I would have heard of it though. That’s not at all my crowd.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

NIEA -- National Interscholastic Ebike Assn
Coming to a school near you.
=sParty


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Nat said:


> Sounds like a good thing indeed. Not sure why I would have heard of it though. That’s not at all my crowd.


I sometimes come across a high school age team training on my local trails, either when I'm riding or trail running after work. I went to a work party a couple of months ago and a coach and some of his team were helping out. I told the coach I had a bit of an issue on the trail with one of his kids the other day. He told me "oh, I"m sorry to hear that. What happened?" I told him I was trail running and one of his kids passed me and called out "walker".


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

chazpat said:


> I sometimes come across a high school age team training on my local trails, either when I'm riding or trail running after work. I went to a work party a couple of months ago and a coach and some of his team were helping out. I told the coach I had a bit of an issue on the trail with one of his kids the other day. He told me "oh, I"m sorry to hear that. What happened?" I told him I was trail running and one of his kids passed me and called out "walker".


Listen here you little punks…

My kids did basketball when they were younger. Now they’re members of the USAU.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Nat, we're staying on your lawn. We're smokin' weed and drinkin' beer on your lawn!! 

NICA has had a wide ranging presence in the region I live. When I first learned of it, all I could think was how much I wish it had been there during my time.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Sparticus said:


> NIEA -- National Interscholastic Ebike Assn
> Coming to a school near you.
> =sParty


I recently learned played video games is now considered a sport, they call it esports. We will soon have the first generation of morbidly obese diabetic world champions.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Wall-Ebike
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
...I knew I could turn this thread to the dark side. 😈
=sParty


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

I think sParty scared him away so he threw the towel in. 😜


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

His bike was prolly equipped with a front defailure.
=sParty


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Sparticus said:


> His bike was prolly equipped with a front defailure.
> =sParty


Good enough reason to run a bloke outta town!


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

BansheeRune said:


> Good enough reason to run a bloke outta town!


No need to run him out, Bansh.
With an FD, he'll mosey on his own.
=sParty


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

RS VR6 said:


> I completely forgot about him. His was making videos when the 26er was still in. I watched his videos and then he basically just stopped making them.


He tried to do the paid thing for a while like Ryan Leech, but I think his gig was up at that point. Folks like Seth were producing much more visually appealing content and I think more people associated with the enduro types like Seth/Alex/BKXC/etc than they did Chris being in lycra all the time and very XC oriented. He was the old guard of YT content at the time and Seth, for better or worse, started to define what mtb content was like going forward. 

I don't think all of his instructional stuff was bad, some of it was, but that's on par for all the YT instructional content. I also remember him saying you could "try" wide bars by extending your lock on grips beyond the end of the bar, which is objectively dumb and dangerous, I saw at least two folks do this and crash from broken grips, they got the idea from his video. He was also really bad about responding to any legitimate criticism, his drops video was not a drop at all and when people would point that out, his only rebuttal was that he had a video and they didn't. 



Cary said:


> I recently learned played video games is now considered a sport, they call it esports. We will soon have the first generation of morbidly obese diabetic world champions.


If you haven't, you should look into the lives they lead and the training they do. I guarantee it is not what you think and the level of effort they put into it is at least equal, if not greater, than that of traditional sports athletes. Especially in South Korea and some other Asian countries. It is not a bunch of greasy overweight nerds drinking Mountain Dew. 

They live in the same house, train together, often have on staff fitness coaches, nutritionists, and other support staff. It's a gig that has the same level of support as most full time athletes receive. It's extremely high stress and they often play in front of thousands of people (like in this video: 



)


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

Adodero said:


> The MTBTips dude was originally one of the most popular mountain bikers on YouTube for instructional content, pre-Seth and that crew. He used to call his viewers "groovers", which is kindof hilarious considering a groover is an ammo can you take a **** in while camping.


I think the pressure got to him too. His LinkedIn now says "Publishing new fundamental science of how Cause & Effect works in the universe so humans can elevate to a new dimension of consciousness, intelligence, cooperation, unity, and harmony."


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

cacatous said:


> I think the pressure got to him too. His LinkedIn now says "Publishing new fundamental science of how Cause & Effect works in the universe so humans can elevate to a new dimension of consciousness, intelligence, cooperation, unity, and harmony."


Would make sense. I still followed him even if I wasn't the biggest fan of his content, it seemed like there was a pretty major spike in negative comments after other YouTubers came into the picture. It probably doesn't help that one of Seth's most popular early videos basically shot him down without naming him by name directly, it was very obvious at the time though. There was a lot of negativity in almost everything he posted for a while it seemed.

I do feel for him, though, he clearly put a lot of time and thought into his content, more than anyone else was at the time and he was kindof innovative in how he recorded certain things, but the end result just wasn't as polished as what the bigger folks are doing now. It has to really suck going from being the #1 hit for howto videos on YT to deleting most of your content and moving on, though. This was back when the predominate advice for new riders was to buy Lee Mccormacks book and YT was barely in the picture, so there weren't a lot of people putting time and effort into helping new riders, which Chris definitely did more of than anyone else on the internet at the time (Simon Lawton's DVD series aside). I'm sure he helped a lot of people get their start.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Did anybody actually watch that video in it’s entirety? I made it about 40 seconds in.


Nope, twenty plus years of internet experience, I didn’t need to click on that shite to know it was nonsense.

As for CJ, seriously dude, why link that crap and dump it here?


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Cary said:


> I recently learned played video games is now considered a sport, they call it esports. We will soon have the first generation of morbidly obese diabetic world champions.


Kind of like people that don't play real sports watch others play....?

Go sports!

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

BansheeRune said:


> Nat, we're staying on your lawn. We're smokin' weed and drinkin' beer on your lawn!!
> 
> NICA has had a wide ranging presence in the region I live. When I first learned of it, all I could think was how much I wish it had been there during my time.


I tore my lawn out this summer…


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## Twilight Error (Jan 12, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> “Quitting mountain biking”
> 
> Is that even legal?


I stopped for a while after buying a motorcycle, but after a few years away, I picked it right back up.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Twilight Error said:


> I stopped for a while after buying a motorcycle, but after a few years away, I picked it right back up.


The moto lure is significant! 
=sParty


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

chazpat said:


> Yeah, who the hell has ever heard of any of these companies?!
> 
> View attachment 2009277


I’ve heard of all of them, just not NICA


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## steadite (Jan 13, 2007)

EatsDirt said:


> …some guy who’s so self important he needs to tell everyone he’s quitting the influencer game…


I’d bet the guy isn’t quitting as an “influencer”. He’ll just migrate to a different genre that he thinks will be more profitable.


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## dispatch.bike (9 mo ago)

BansheeRune said:


> Nat, we're staying on your lawn. We're smokin' weed and drinkin' beer on your lawn!!
> 
> NICA has had a wide ranging presence in the region I live. When I first learned of it, all I could think was how much I wish it had been there during my time.


I work with a number of NICA league manager/coaches and this is exactly what I say to them every time. I’m 52, and the concept of organized cycling of any sort at my primarily and high school wasn’t even a thought. Thankful it now is what it is.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

steadite said:


> I’d bet the guy isn’t quitting as an “influencer”. He’ll just migrate to a different genre that he thinks will be more profitable.


I wonder if he'll find a following in the golf realm? There's a golf influencer who keeps popping up in my Instagram with a very large following. She shows off her intangibles though.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Golf is more expensive than MTN
He will be spending a lot more money. 

Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Nat said:


> I wonder if he'll find a following in the golf realm? There's a golf influencer who keeps popping up in my Instagram with a very large following. She shows off her intangibles though.


She shows her brains?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

EatsDirt said:


> She shows her brains?


LOL, yeah I suppose she is! Young woman in her early 20's probably making more than most of us ever will. Can you fault young people these days for wanting to make a living via social media?


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## Spokey-Doke (Apr 4, 2005)

Walking away from caring. Video coming soon.

OK, never.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Nat said:


> LOL, yeah I suppose she is! Young woman in her early 20's probably making more than most of us ever will. Can you fault young people these days for wanting to make a living via social media?


Seems there are a bunch of clips of smart women tugging at their shirts that keep popping up on my insta feed. Bless their little hearts.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Nat said:


> LOL, yeah I suppose she is! Young woman in her early 20's probably making more than most of us ever will. Can you fault young people these days for wanting to make a living via social media?


It's amazing there is someone dumb enough to issue a check...


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

phantoj said:


> Lee McCormack had a response video that was about as long as the PTP one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lee's been through a lot of **** this year, and he's not done yet with shoulder surgery. Props to him for getting through it, which is probably why he's posting his video about this topic. I wouldn't be surprised if this type of thing has been on his mind. Didn't watch the video though, because 38 minutes of Paul and 38 minutes of Lee is time I can spending riding.

That said, I sat part through the Punter's video, and I will never get that time back. That said, if MTB isn't keeping the Punter's focus and attention, he's better off going and doing something else. I also was diagnosed with ADHD in adulthood, but it doesn't mean I stop loving what I'm doing. I recognize it for what it is, and use it as a super power when I can, and recognize its kryptonite at times too.

MTB is a mental game: adding things like being an influencer, a brand ambassador, racing, competing, etc. will drain the fun out of anything. Add any type of big health diagnosis, and it can reprioritize things for you very quickly (Right @BansheeRune?).

I stopped being a brand ambassador last year, and it was the best thing I could have done for my riding. I'm having a blast for the first time in ages, not worried about saying the right or wrong thing, and enjoying my time pedaling and descending, and learning. I also stopped riding with any type of group, and just only ride either solo or with a handful of friends. It's my personal time, and I value that more than trying to prove anything.


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## Helmut Molde (5 mo ago)

Picard said:


> Golf is more expensive than MTN
> He will be spending a lot more money.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


Bla bla bla


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Picard said:


> Why is he a jerk?
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


I stopped watching when he bought the WalMart bike, trashed it, then returned it for a refund. d-bag move in my estimation.


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## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

TylerVernon said:


> I stopped watching when he bought the WalMart bike, trashed it, then returned it for a refund. d-bag move in my estimation.


I havent seen it but that stunt reminds me of the video of Bam Margera absolutely trashing a rental car. Was entertaining in the 90s but unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) its not the 90s anymore.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

TylerVernon said:


> I stopped watching when he bought the WalMart bike, trashed it, then returned it for a refund. d-bag move in my estimation.


Wow. I missed that.


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

EDIT: Sorry, wrong thread (ignore)


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

WOW! 238 replys in 2 days!


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

steadite said:


> I’d bet the guy isn’t quitting as an “influencer”. He’ll just migrate to a different genre that he thinks will be more profitable.


Given his interest in golf: Paul the Putter.


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

This YouTuber talks about the pressures of coming up with ideas, executing and burning out.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

nhodge said:


> WOW! 238 replys in 2 days!


Just think how many replies there would have been if the guy rode ebikes.


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

Cary said:


> Given his interest in golf: Paul the Putter.


He should take up dollmaking - he can be Paul the Plonker then (UK euphemism for a fool, and also a doll-making tool).


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Beer drinking: Paul the Pubber


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

Nat said:


> Beer drinking: Paul the Pubber


Paul the Flubber


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Cary said:


> Given his interest in golf: Paul the Putter.



Cary hits it outta da park, the crowd goes wild...


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## SkyAboveDirtBelow (Apr 14, 2019)

cacatous said:


> This YouTuber talks about the pressures of coming up with ideas, executing and burning out.


Why doesn't he what most MTB Youtubers do: Just copy whatever Seth does?


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

SkyAboveDirtBelow said:


> Why doesn't he what most MTB Youtubers do: Just copy whatever Seth does?


Because then he'd be accused of being a Seth wannabe.


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## justwan naride (Oct 13, 2008)

Although I've watched only a couple of his videos in the past I watched this one out of curiosity (as I can't imagne myself quitting anything really). 

The couple of videos I've watched were not for me, but I appreciated his take on putting himself out there as a "punter", which was different theme for a mtb channel in a way. Out of his farewell speech I got that despite him claiming otherwise, he did infact burn out from turning a pastime into an obligation and from going too deep into the social (media and otherwise) aspect of the sport. 

I can only imagine that doing this as a full time job would soon take the fun out of the actual activity. Personally I don't even own a sports camera because I don't want something like that to interfere with the way I ride. Having to come up with fresh ideas all the time sounds demanding and would grow old in no time. There's plenty of evidence that it's no small task as more and more of such channels seem to struggle finding original ideas and end up uploading silly stuff or just content for the sake of content. I used to watch Seth when he was riding an entry level Trek ht with a dropper as the only upgrade, sharing skill tips. It got very boring when it became more professional so I stopped. The GMBN channel has gotten completely unwatchable IMHO, it has some value for newcomers to the sport, but even then some of the advice I find questionable. I used to watch Nate Hills for quite a while thanks to the highly skilled riders in front of him but my interest for this has faded as well.

The whole youtube influencer thing has no appeal for me at this point. Moi Moi Tv keeps me subscribed as it offers great race coverage (better than the official sources).


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

I like BKXC because he rides in interesting places and doesn't act like a Yahoo, and always respects the level of skill demanded by the trail.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I'm the same as justwan, every time I think about getting a vid cam I then realize that I don't want to keep stopping, redoing stuff, moving the camera, etc so I don't get one. I'd rather just ride. I'll put together some pix and a bit of a "diary" every now and then but that doesn't take away from the riding.

Seth has branched out to things like "flip bike" in order to come up with content. He does a good job and comes across very likable. But I can't see creating YouTube content and/or being an influencer as being a lifelong career for anyone except for a very, very few. But maybe someone like Seth could roll it into a position in video editing, directing, scripting, etc.

Hey Seth, I might have a job for you!


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

He's mad he wasn't getting enough free stuff. Good riddance.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

You guys are too mean on him. Give the guy a break 

Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


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## Jlar (May 29, 2006)

cacatous said:


> I like BKXC because he rides in interesting places and doesn't act like a Yahoo, and always respects the level of skill demanded by the trail.


Same. Great personality. But after how many years of riding full time, he's still a chicken sh!t. One would think he'd learn how to jump after all this time.


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## SkyAboveDirtBelow (Apr 14, 2019)

chazpat said:


> I'm the same as justwan, every time I think about getting a vid cam I then realize that I don't want to keep stopping, redoing stuff, moving the camera, etc so I don't get one. I'd rather just ride. I'll put together some pix and a bit of a "diary" every now and then but that doesn't take away from the riding.
> 
> Seth has branched out to things like "flip bike" in order to come up with content. He does a good job and comes across very likable. But I can't see creating YouTube content and/or being an influencer as being a lifelong career for anyone except for a very, very few. But maybe someone like Seth could roll it into a position in video editing, directing, scripting, etc.
> 
> Hey Seth, I might have a job for you!


Seth seems to be the most business oriented of these guys and appears to have a fantastic work ethic. Give him a bit more time and he'll have multiple rental properties and may be selling MTB gear he designed. The Youtube thing could fall apart and he'll land on his feet. If he is financially prudent he may now be on the verge of financial independence.

I wonder about guys who seem to have just fallen into their position like Singletrack Sampler. One day they'll wake up and be forty years old with a CV that has fifteen years of living in a van.


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## SkyAboveDirtBelow (Apr 14, 2019)

Jlar said:


> Same. Great personality. But after how many years of riding full time, he's still a chicken sh!t. One would think he'd learn how to jump after all this time.


This may be the problem the OP's Youtuber had: A community that looks down on anyone who is not risking injury by doing ever stupider sh!t on a MTB.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

SkyAboveDirtBelow said:


> I wonder about guys who seem to have just fallen into their position like Singletrack Sampler. One day they'll wake up and be forty years old with a CV that has fifteen years of living in a van.


Ouch


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## Jlar (May 29, 2006)

SkyAboveDirtBelow said:


> This may be the problem the OP's Youtuber had: A community that looks down on anyone who is not risking injury by doing ever stupider sh!t on a MTB.


It's not stupid to learn how to jump or progress one's skills. It's part of the sport. One can just tell by his video's how anxious BK is on a bike. I'm not saying he's gotta kill himself for our entertaiment. It just gets boring watching an under average rider, not progress over the years.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I can’t imagine putting riding videos on the internet. Let alone putting a video on the internet announcing that I will no longer be putting riding videos on the internet. 

Of course, I am a bit of a hypocrite, like most. I follow a couple of people on YouTube, simply to get ideas for riding destinations. BKXC, who rides a Ripmo on XC trails, so I can find good XC trails. Mills Peak, for example.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bike_Tyson (Jun 4, 2021)

Jlar said:


> It's not stupid to learn how to jump or progress one's skills. It's part of the sport. One can just tell by his video's how anxious BK is on a bike. I'm not saying he's gotta kill himself for our entertaiment. It just gets boring watching an under average rider, not progress over the years.


Have you actually watched him ride recently? 

Watch the most recent Singletrack Sampler video where he follows BKXC, you might find he has progressed a lot. It's hard to tell how someone is riding from a wide-angle lens view, but when you watch him in that video, you'll see he has upped his game considerably in tech and general bike handling. He may not be sending doubles, but that is just one bike skill out of many. Not everyone has to be good in the thing you are good at. I doubt the majority of people on this forum could keep up with him, me included.


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Jlar said:


> It's not stupid to learn how to jump or progress one's skills. It's part of the sport. One can just tell by his video's how anxious BK is on a bike. I'm not saying he's gotta kill himself for our entertaiment. It just gets boring watching an under average rider, not progress over the years.


I don't like the content he's pushed out the last few years, he talks too much for my tastes (compared to someone like Nate Hills that just rides), but I don't think he's below average by any means and he's also progressed a lot since he first started. I've ridden some of the trails he has and they are more difficult and risky than sending a jump on some flow trail, they are also not something a below average rider would be able to ride. There are better technical riders (Dangerous Dave, Dale Stone, etc), but he is hardly "below average".

The further away the mountain bike community can get from jumping being a symbol of ones overall skill, the better. We might get some new trails that are actually something other than flow trails with jumps on it and get new technical trails as opposed to all our tech trails getting paved over for new jump lines.


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## SkyAboveDirtBelow (Apr 14, 2019)

Jlar said:


> It's not stupid to learn how to jump or progress one's skills. It's part of the sport. One can just tell by his video's how anxious BK is on a bike. I'm not saying he's gotta kill himself for our entertaiment. It just gets boring watching an under average rider, not progress over the years.


What is stupid is the idea of judging mountain bikers by jumping or "progressing one's skills." There are a lot of riders that don't give a sh!t about that. Why should they if their joy of MTBing is exercising for five or six hours while being in the mountain? Hikers are not judging each other for doing hikes without enough exposure to progress their skills.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Nat said:


> Ouch


And thousands of followers as part of his own brand. In the new gig economy, he's doing quite well.


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## Jlar (May 29, 2006)

SkyAboveDirtBelow said:


> What is stupid is the idea of judging mountain bikers by jumping or "progressing one's skills." There are a lot of riders that don't give a sh!t about that. Why should they if their joy of MTBing is exercising for five or six hours while being in the mountain? Hikers are not judging each other for doing hikes without enough exposure to progress their skills.


No not really. But to each their own. BK produces good content no doubt. But he's always been a bit of a b!tch.


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## Jlar (May 29, 2006)

Adodero said:


> I don't like the content he's pushed out the last few years, he talks too much for my tastes (compared to someone like Nate Hills that just rides), but I don't think he's below average by any means and he's also progressed a lot since he first started. I've ridden some of the trails he has and they are more difficult and risky than sending a jump on some flow trail, they are also not something a below average rider would be able to ride. There are better technical riders (Dangerous Dave, Dale Stone, etc), but he is hardly "below average".
> 
> The further away the mountain bike community can get from jumping being a symbol of ones overall skill, the better. We might get some new trails that are actually something other than flow trails with jumps on it and get new technical trails as opposed to all our tech trails getting paved over for new jump lines.


I just went back and watched some of his old old vids. I agree, he's progressed since then. Perhaps I'm judging BK too harshly when compared to other youtubers I follow.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Bike_Tyson said:


> Have you actually watched him ride recently?
> 
> Watch the most recent Singletrack Sampler video where he follows BKXC, you might find he has progressed a lot. It's hard to tell how someone is riding from a wide-angle lens view, but when you watch him in that video, you'll see he has upped his game considerably in tech and general bike handling. He may not be sending doubles, but that is just one bike skill out of many. Not everyone has to be good in the thing you are good at. I doubt the majority of people on this forum could keep up with him, me included.


Have to agree. That trail had some incredibly difficult sections he cleared without issue.


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

Jlar said:


> Same. Great personality. But after how many years of riding full time, he's still a chicken sh!t. One would think he'd learn how to jump after all this time.


Maybe he doesn't want to? I don't really enjoy jumping that much either.


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

Jlar said:


> It's not stupid to learn how to jump or progress one's skills. It's part of the sport. One can just tell by his video's how anxious BK is on a bike. I'm not saying he's gotta kill himself for our entertaiment. It just gets boring watching an under average rider, not progress over the years.


Then don't watch his videos.


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

SkyAboveDirtBelow said:


> What is stupid is the idea of judging mountain bikers by jumping or "progressing one's skills." There are a lot of riders that don't give a sh!t about that. Why should they if their joy of MTBing is exercising for five or six hours while being in the mountain? Hikers are not judging each other for doing hikes without enough exposure to progress their skills.


Yup this - I like watching Italian and German YouTube reviewers because they might do the odd jump here and there but most of their reviews are pedally, they traverse mountains, they take on technical sections in forests. It's far more relevant and engaging to me.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

cacatous said:


> Yup this - I like watching Italian and German YouTube reviewers because they might do the odd jump here and there but most of their reviews are pedally, they traverse mountains, they take on technical sections in forests. It's far more relevant and engaging to me.


Any recommendations? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Canssago said:


> Whoa, I was never a Novice, I raced BMX as a youngling!


Thats how I feel coming off of many, many, many years of riding dirt bikes and old school bikes on trails. It all came natural except for the climbing. 😡


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## eddieg7227 (Apr 15, 2017)

plummet said:


> View attachment 2009058
> 
> 
> I got to 40 seconds... can someone sum up the video because all my farks flew out the window very quickly.
> ...


What is this star wars?


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

Le Duke said:


> Any recommendations?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


MTBMag is my favourite Italian channel.

I love the review of the Spectral - 



Spectral 29 vs 125 -


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Jlar said:


> It's not stupid to learn how to jump or progress one's skills. It's part of the sport. One can just tell by his video's how anxious BK is on a bike. I'm not saying he's gotta kill himself for our entertaiment. It just gets boring watching an under average rider, not progress over the years.


BKXC is I think part of the reason why Paul "quit". They both did the BC bike race. Paul put a lot of hours / prep into it. And then completely fell apart. BKXC beat him pretty easily.

BKXC tried to learn to jump this year. And he for sure is better than he used to be.

However, I watched the Singletrack samplers recent video and was shocked and how well and aggressive BKXC was riding. It's like he leveled up.


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

Brian can ride alright...


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

cacatous said:


> I like BKXC because he rides in interesting places and doesn't act like a Yahoo, and always respects the level of skill demanded by the trail.


I am not going to lie I thought this was BKXC when I first start reading this thread. 

When I first start mountain biking, I was consuming all the biking youtube I could even GCN. Now all I watch is Dig BMX, 50:01, random edits that get posted on Pinkbike and the occasional Seth video.


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

Skimmed the video after listening to the first 10 mins. He'll be back. 5 days, 5 months, or 5 years from now...he will be riding again. 

IMO his video is the same as people who post they are leaving Facebook. Same thing, different social media platform.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

bingemtbr said:


> Skimmed the video after listening to the first 10 mins. He'll be back. 5 days, 5 months, or 5 years from now...he will be riding again.
> 
> IMO his video is the same as people who post they are leaving Facebook. Same thing, different social media platform.


Yeah, I can't imagine he'll quit riding forever. Maybe quit making videos about it, but not riding.


.


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## Xgecko (Oct 12, 2019)

FWIW these last few years have been a [email protected]#$er. Some folks responded by embracing risk and others re-evaluate what risks are acceptable. I like Paul, Everyday MTB, Crashing Dad and the other more “average” riders not to say they don’t have skills but they can’t corner like Jeff KendalWeed. Guy’s like Nate Hill produce spectacular videos but I can’t relate to their style or skill level, nothing about their riding touches me on a personal level. I'm not sure I understand specifically why Paul is quitting, but I know that I have made a similar choice recently to quit Park/transition skateboarding after almost 50 years. My bag of tricks isn’t what it used to be and I find more JOY just riding my hard tail in the woods. I know I’m a solid intermediate MTB rider, I’m old so I’ve neither the skill nor the inclination to progress my jumping ability beyond its current level. Tech riding on the other hand makes me happy and progressing my ability to navigate insanely difficult trails still makes my heart race, I am probably capable of riding Single black tack and some Double Black Tech as long as the drops aren’t too big. I have a pretty accurate understanding of BKXC and his skill, because he’s cleaned technical trails and features in my home area during his “50 state shred”, that I’ve ridden and can’t clear . I watched in interest/glee/horror Brian ride that ridge line in Durango. And I’ve rewatched both his and “Skills with Phil” ‘s Whole Enchilada just to figure out what in need to work on before I add the trail to my bucket list. Admittedly Hanna and Braden’s rides put it on my radar and other than the Cruxes most seems I within my skillset, but I’ll still work of the elements that I think need work and hopefully get a chance sometime in the future. As for Paul I hope he finds joy in his New endeavors I enjoyed his content and mountain biking will probably be here should he ever decide to return.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

If you can ride black tech you can ride almost all of the TWE. There are a couple of sections where it might make sense to walk - probably due to fatigue more than anything else. And of course, everything looks bigger in person.

I wouldn't wait to "improve your skills" before you go ride it. I would just go - if your life allows it.


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Just walk stuff if you aren't confident. I've eaten **** in the first mile of a long shuttle ride with no way back and had to ride the rest with bruised ribs, it's not worth it if there is something you aren't really confident you can clear.

I also have a rule of 3, if I roll up to something 3 times and don't ride it, I walk it and move on. It gives you an out while also encouraging you to try something, but that may be too much pressure for some and have the opposite effect. I find if I go beyond 3 times then it gets in my head and I'm more likely to screw up, anyway.


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

cassieno said:


> BKXC is I think part of the reason why Paul "quit". They both did the BC bike race. Paul put a lot of hours / prep into it. And then completely fell apart. BKXC beat him pretty easily.
> 
> BKXC tried to learn to jump this year. And he for sure is better than he used to be.
> 
> However, I watched the Singletrack samplers recent video and was shocked and how well and aggressive BKXC was riding. It's like he leveled up.





cacatous said:


> Brian can ride alright...


I was really surprised by Brian's skills in this video. He doesn't look to be this good from his stabilized camera views.


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## Jlar (May 29, 2006)

cacatous said:


> Brian can ride alright...


That's a wicked vid showing BK's skills. Still can't jump worth a damn


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## Xgecko (Oct 12, 2019)

cassieno said:


> If you can ride black tech you can ride almost all of the TWE. There are a couple of sections where it might make sense to walk - probably due to fatigue more than anything else. And of course, everything looks bigger in person.
> 
> I wouldn't wait to "improve your skills" before you go ride it. I would just go - if your life allows it.


I am not too proud to walk.i consider endurance a “skill”…..the length of TWE, the location of the “cruxes” near the end mean that no amount of rest along the way is gonna allow me to ride it or anything close to that difficulty for 30 miles. And that’s the point. I want to ride a lot of those difficult sections (maybe not the Snotch) but it’s not smart (or safe) for me to attempt them when I’m physically depleted. But I do understand the desire to ride it, even the exposure such that it is, wouldn’t be bad if I was fresh but exhaustion lowers my abilities rapidly


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Xgecko said:


> I am not too proud to walk.i consider endurance a “skill”…..the length of TWE, the location of the “cruxes” near the end mean that no amount of rest along the way is gonna allow me to ride it or anything close to that difficulty for 30 miles. And that’s the point. I want to ride a lot of those difficult sections (maybe not the Snotch) but it’s not smart (or safe) for me to attempt them when I’m physically depleted. But I do understand the desire to ride it, even the exposure such that it is, wouldn’t be bad if I was fresh but exhaustion lowers my abilities rapidly


Man, I've eyed up the Notch a couple of times and I _think_ I can make the right turn but given the remote location of the feature and the long tumble down into the canyon if I F up the corner, I've always just walked it. By "walked" I mean "crept down."

Not my photo:


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Xgecko said:


> I am not too proud to walk.i consider endurance a “skill”…..the length of TWE, the location of the “cruxes” near the end mean that no amount of rest along the way is gonna allow me to ride it or anything close to that difficulty for 30 miles. And that’s the point. I want to ride a lot of those difficult sections (maybe not the Snotch) but it’s not smart (or safe) for me to attempt them when I’m physically depleted. But I do understand the desire to ride it, even the exposure such that it is, wouldn’t be bad if I was fresh but exhaustion lowers my abilities rapidly


I did it at the end of three days of riding out there. I ended up walking / or using the ride around for most of those "crux" moves. Still totally worth it and worth going to.

It's just so remote to **** up. A guy in our group broke his shock near the bottom (after he had ridden the notch) and it took him 6 hours to hike out with his frame.

Risk taking when you are hours from care is much different than 30 mins.

Skills with Phil, posted a video of him riding the notch and it was so smooth, but on his POV looked sketchy.


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

Oh Jesus Christ. I clicked the video then realized it goes on for over 30 minutes! I've made actual life-affecting decisions I could explain in half the time.


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

Nat said:


> Man, I've eyed up the Notch a couple of times and I _think_ I can make the right turn but given the remote location of the feature and the long tumble down into the canyon if I F up the corner, I've always just walked it. By "walked" I mean "crept down."
> 
> Not my photo:
> View attachment 2009646


This photo does not do the notch justice. It is 1000 times harder than this pic makes it seem.I have only "walked" it. 

I agree the remoteness of the snotch and notch really scares me from trying them. Speaking of injuries on this trail - I saw a 20 year old with a completely smashed and broken nose halfway down porcupine rim. There is only one way out of there, which is out. He still had about 7 miles left to go. Poor dude.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

C Smasher said:


> This photo does not do the notch justice. It is 1000 times harder than this pic makes it seem.I have only "walked" it.
> 
> I agree the remoteness of the snotch and notch really scares me from trying them. Speaking of injuries on this trail - I saw a 20 year old with a completely smashed and broken nose halfway down porcupine rim. There is only one way out of there, which is out. He still had about 7 miles left to go. Poor dude.


Yikes! Longest 7 miles ever for that dude.

Here are some more shots. Only the first one (into direct sun) is mine, c. 2003. The last one, OMG!


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## Tallboy723 (4 mo ago)

Well I decided to revisit this thread since it has so much traction. I ended up watching about 15 min of the video. So he just isn’t having any fun anymore riding MTB. Everyone has their own reasons for quitting something they once loved. I stopped riding MTB for 10+ years. Found other hobbies that I got into. Now I’m back with a new bike and my son is riding my older bike. I grew up playing ice hockey and soccer. Don’t play either anymore but I played hockey up to about 5 years ago. The back pain the next day was too much to take so I quit. playing. I have degenerative disc disease and have had it since I was 18, I’m 48 now. Just tried to limit my lifting of heavy stuff and keep the weight off and for the most part it was all tolerable. Now a days every morning is slow going until the back works itself out. Some days are much worse than others. But for whatever reason riding never produces the back pain hockey ever did the next day. The odd thing is, my back never bothers me while doing the activity even hockey, it’s always the next day that I pay for it. Anyway, if you’re not enjoying what you’re doing then that is more than enough of a reason to stop doing it. Getting older and back pain is catching up.


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## Xgecko (Oct 12, 2019)

Nat said:


> Man, I've eyed up the Notch a couple of times and I _think_ I can make the right turn but given the remote location of the feature and the long tumble down into the canyon if I F up the corner, I've always just walked it. By "walked" I mean "crept down."
> 
> Not my photo:
> View attachment 2009646


yeah growing up in New England techie stuff is what I learned to ride, granted the scale and exposure is more significant but it’s still just knowing how to pick a line…but with age comes wisdom, I’ve eye’d up a few features that I can do 9/10 times but the consequences of that miss just aren’t acceptable so I take the B-line. Being remote just adds to that




cassieno said:


> I did it at the end of three days of riding out there. I ended up walking / or using the ride around for most of those "crux" moves. Still totally worth it and worth going to.
> 
> It's just so remote to **** up. A guy in our group broke his shock near the bottom (after he had ridden the notch) and it took him 6 hours to hike out with his frame.
> 
> ...


Phill makes everything look smooth, it’s not fair…if you see the crash where he bent his crank, even that looked strangely not as scary as it really should have


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## EchoTony (Nov 18, 2020)

Xgecko said:


> Phill makes everything look smooth, it’s not fair…if you see the crash where he bent his crank, even that looked strangely not as scary as it really should have


Phil laughed and got back on his bike on what should have been a helicopter ride off the mountain. Phil has skill...


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

Nat said:


> Yikes! Longest 7 miles ever for that dude.
> 
> Here are some more shots. Only the first one (into direct sun) is mine, c. 2003. The last one, OMG!
> View attachment 2009650
> ...


That's the legit perspective! Plus the right hander you mentioned above that is at the crux. Mass chunky in real life. Insane. 

On topic - I liked Lee's response video so thanks for whoever shared that.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

C Smasher said:


> This photo does not do the notch justice. It is 1000 times harder than this pic makes it seem.I have only "walked" it.
> 
> I agree the remoteness of the snotch and notch really scares me from trying them. Speaking of injuries on this trail - I saw a 20 year old with a completely smashed and broken nose halfway down porcupine rim. There is only one way out of there, which is out. He still had about 7 miles left to go. Poor dude.


The Snotch is the easier way, as long as you can pivot turn on the final switchback. Still a high consequence segment though.

The Notch is a serious move. Like you said, it’s a LONG way out if you mess up.

I once watched, while sitting at the first popular photo site looking into Castle Valley on Porcupine proper, 3 guys approaching from above down the rock staircase just before the pullout at the cliff.
All three had their seats at max height, and all three went OTB down those steps, in succession. None were able to unclip, either. Broken collarbones, a dislocated shoulder, and maybe a broken wrist as well, if I recall. They all had quick releases on their seat posts…sigh — so avoidable. I’m sure it was a long journey out for them.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Impressive way to get the clicks … 15 pages, is the OP getting paid for this?


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

cookieMonster said:


> The Snotch is the easier way, as long as you can pivot turn on the final switchback. Still a high consequence segment though.
> 
> The Notch is a serious move. Like you said, it’s a LONG way out if you mess up.
> 
> ...


Yeah that pivot turn gets me, but so does the run out after that ha!

Imagining your story of the 3 guys going down made my laugh a little, funny image. Rough trail.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

cookieMonster said:


> I once watched, while sitting at the first popular photo site looking into Castle Valley on Porcupine proper, 3 guys approaching from above down the rock staircase just before the pullout at the cliff.
> All three had their seats at max height, and all three went OTB down those steps, in succession. None were able to unclip, either. Broken collarbones, a dislocated shoulder, and maybe a broken wrist as well, if I recall. They all had quick releases on their seat posts…sigh — so avoidable. I’m sure it was a long journey out for them.


Good god!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Sanchofula said:


> Impressive way to get the clicks … 15 pages, is the OP getting paid for this?


Who would be stupid enough to write the checks? Seriously!


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## nobody special (Jun 21, 2019)

Harold said:


> ... About as Type A as you can get. There's no such thing as a casual ride for them. Yet they show up to group rides and instead of being social and taking it down a couple notches, they put the hurt on everybody else and get mad when others can't keep up.


I see this a lot in group rides. Those people are frequently the people who ride trainers 90% of the time and then have something to prove when they are out on the trails. In a no drop group ride they arrive at the designated meeting spot many minutes ahead of the sweeper and then they leave before everyone arrives to re-group and the last riders don't really know the exact path they planned to ride. Its kind of frustrating, especially since I often ride sweeper. I really don't know how to say it without just saying it.


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## nobody special (Jun 21, 2019)

I've watched his channel in the past a few times but I never really understood it. I also don't understand the copycat channels. "Hey look, I suck at this, like and subscribe and buy my in video sponsored stuff and check out the affiliate links..." Apparently this resonated with viewers though, if you consider how many subscribers he and the copycats have.

It is a bit sad to see someone get discouraged and give up though, regardless of who they are.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Why don't you just let them go and do their own thing?


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## nobody special (Jun 21, 2019)

cassieno said:


> Why don't you just let them go and do their own thing?


Not sure if that was for me, but that is what happens.

Issue is the leaders are supposed to set the path so the other riders who may not know the trails can follow from point to point. As the sweeper I know the best options back to the parking lot if something happens, but frequently the mid pack is far enough ahead than I cannot see them as the last rider in the group. Also we normally take a head count at the stops, IE "we started with 15, now we have 14, who is missing and why?" so differentiating who made the check point and who already left becomes worrisome. I don't want to leave someone in the woods.

A drop ride where everyone knows the trails and are OK with riding solo then its not an issue, but the no drop rides often attract people with lesser ability or minimal knowledge of the trail we are on.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

I'm not watching it and I'm not walking away from mountain biking. Practically born on a bike. Been doing off road trails since my Schwinn Stingray back in 73.


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

Hated his videos and more than anything his quitter attitude. I saw that coming a mile away. Even seemed like his so called friends hated him. It was always me me me. Or whoa is me. Victim mentality 👎👎 stick to the real boys. The ones still going strong and the ones I can never imagine saying THAT'S IT NO MORE. I used to be subbed to a crapload of these guys. I'm down to 5-6. I'm gonna take a shot and guess who is the next one to quit. B1ker. I might be wrong. But always crying why isn't my channel doing better? GIVE ME MONEY !!!!! And talking to expert riders and always putting his own riding in to the convo. Another me me me type scenario 😆 just stick to the guys that you can tell are the true lovers of MTB.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

I think the most telling revelation was his gripe about the bicycle industry's willingness to support content-creation vs. the golf industry's investment into content. He's not a MTB'er, he's a content creator; and, he's no longer enthused about making MTB content. Meh.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

This whole thread makes me realize that I'm not missing out on much with the whole YouTube mountain biking scene. Apparently there is one?


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

There are a few guys that are not the best riders but are doing a lot for the mountain bike community. I won't name them but I'm sure you guys know who they are. I follow them and of course some of the really really good riders. Just because I wish I could ride like them 😃👍


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## Xgecko (Oct 12, 2019)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> I think the most telling revelation was his gripe about the bicycle industry's willingness to support content-creation vs. the golf industry's investment into content. He's not a MTB'er, he's a content creator; and, he's no longer enthused about making MTB content. Meh.


That’s an interesting point….I have wondered at times about the people who’s content I watch and what it is about them that keeps me engaged. Broadly speaking I think it’s the passion the presenter has for the subject. It’s hard to fake honest passion….Paul seems to have have spent the last 6 months making a movie that he’s proud of while also coming to the realization that mountain biking isn’t his passion….a bit arrogant that he feels like he deserves a prize for coming to this realization…..


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

The video was yet more angst about what is primarily a hobby and a pastime for most of us. It belongs in the “Too Much Bike“ and “Mountain Biking is Too Expensive“ categories. Boo friggin’ hoo to all of them.

I mean, seriously…I’m very into cycling but I can Separate it from real life and things that really matter.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

baker said:


> This whole thread makes me realize that I'm not missing out on much with the whole YouTube mountain biking scene. Apparently there is one?


A few guys figured out how to make YouTube their job. Occasionally they would get together to ride. That's pretty much the extent of the scene. 

The ones I loosely follow are
Bkxc - trail beta in new places
Skills with Phil - actually skilled mountain biker. Started with good skills videos. Has a cool trail building channel.
Kyle and April - excellent series of how to bike videos started in 2020.
Single Track sampler - happy dude. 

Most of them are simply personalities and entertainment. Instead if watching TV I'll watch them.

That being said it seems like the YouTube mtb scene is condensing around a few "creators" it will be interesting to see where they go. Like most who have watched them for awhile I am losing interest.

With bike companies dying this year and marketing budgets cut I think a ton of these youtubers will have to figure out other sources of income.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

If anyone I would follow on oohtoob would be Ali Clarkson. 

Cassieno, they might just hafta break down and get a bloomin' J, O, B! The buncha slackers...


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## swervin (Nov 9, 2013)

I don't follow or watch any MTB youtubers, so from my perspective, this is just overly dramatic, lol.


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## beeristasty (Jan 22, 2004)

I made it all the way until he called himself a "professional mountain bike youtuber."


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

I like a fair number of YT channels for MTB and find them informative or entertaining or both. And I tend to recommend them on here, or to friends, but don't typically subscribe. 

It is annoying to me when they become "self-aware" and start hawking subscriptions, reviews, and ratings and what not. I can tolerate a "smash that like/subscribe" at the end, but not much more than that. 

I looked at the B1ker channel mentioned above, and I am pretty sure I watched some videos of his on topics of interest in the past. But one of the most recent, an interview with HardtailParty, he spends the first five minutes begging for likes, subscriptions, and positive reviews and then talks about how many followers HTP has. Good Lord, stop.

There's a creator that has posted a couple of his videos on here and gotten a lot of grief for self-promotion, and I suppose that is fair criticism. But it doesn't bother me as much as the begging. It feels like young women and girls begging for followers on instagram or tiktok or whatever's cool these days.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

beeristasty said:


> I made it all the way until he called himself a "professional mountain bike youtuber."


When that's literally how you earn you living what else would you call it?


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

cassieno said:


> When that's literally how you earn you living what else would you call it?


A temporary job


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

Paul was a dick.

Kendleweed is a sick rider.

MTB yum yum is nice.

Freehub mag videos are sick.

Bikersedge is cool (as a local)

Remmy if you have 30 mins for a video

https://www.youtube.com/@TommyHuynh - this guy has some sick vids

Tiktok is where I get the sick shred shorts


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

Seth may be cool but to me his videos are for kidz


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## beeristasty (Jan 22, 2004)

cassieno said:


> When that's literally how you earn you living what else would you call it?


Inserting "professional" before your job title/hobby, in an attempt to legitimize or prop up what you do (or did), just sounds lame to me.

Also just want to add that when I was in college, I was a professional cashier... For a major retailer!


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

He is inserting professional to show that that's how he makes his living and it's not a hobby. He isn't legitimizing it. It's literally how he makes a living. He was sponsored by various companies and YouTube paid the bills. 

I guess professional riders aren't a thing. They are just riders. Not sure how we separate factory race team riders from just amateur riders. Do we just assume all WC DH racers are paid to do it? Or are we allowed to use "pro rider" in that context to differentiate?


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

cassieno said:


> He is inserting professional to show that that's how he makes his living and it's not a hobby. He isn't legitimizing it. It's literally how he makes a living. He was sponsored by various companies and YouTube paid the bills.
> 
> I guess professional riders aren't a thing. They are just riders. Not sure how we separate factory race team riders from just amateur riders. Do we just assume all WC DH racers are paid to do it? Or are we allowed to use "pro rider" in that context to differentiate?


And possibly these youtubers make more money than most pro riders...


----------



## beeristasty (Jan 22, 2004)

cassieno said:


> He is inserting professional to show that that's how he makes his living and it's not a hobby. He isn't legitimizing it. It's literally how he makes a living. He was sponsored by various companies and YouTube paid the bills.
> 
> I guess professional riders aren't a thing. They are just riders. Not sure how we separate factory race team riders from just amateur riders. Do we just assume all WC DH racers are paid to do it? Or are we allowed to use "pro rider" in that context to differentiate?


Nope, pro riders are a real thing. They've trained and proven themselves to be the best in their field. In terms of competition and skill level, making that delineation between pro and amateur makes perfect sense.

Youtube is an open platform where anyone can post just about anything. If he can make a living off of his videos, good for him; he's free to call himself a professional blah blah blah youtuber as much as he wants. But hearing it that way will always sound douchey to me.


----------



## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

Not everyone doing MTB videos is going to get anywhere near 180k subscribers. Sam hill is an awesome Pro Rider, but hopeless at interviews and or most interactions, he wouldn't make it as a youtube MTB'er.

like Paul or not he put the effort in and got somewhere, then gave it away.


----------



## twowheelmotion (Feb 10, 2010)

theMISSIONARY said:


> Sam hill is an awesome Pro Rider, but hopeless at interviews and or most interactions, he wouldn't make it as a youtube MTB'er.
> .


Yeah well, Sam Hill isn't the kind to have to whine to the camera to send the message, now innit.. Also Seth is annoying. There, I said it. Smash that unsubscribe button and unlike for less!



https://www.pinkbike.com/video/488221/


----------



## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

The loam ranger produce many useful videos too. He has many sponsors 

Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


----------



## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Anyone know what happened to Cobra Kyle? Been a few months since he uploaded. He makes a good video without taking himself too seriously.


.


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

twowheelmotion said:


> Also Seth is annoying. There, I said it.


So I'm not the only one...


----------



## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

twowheelmotion said:


> Yeah well, Sam Hill isn't the kind to have to whine to the camera to send the message, now innit..* Also Seth is annoying. *There, I said it. Smash that unsubscribe button and unlike for less!
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/video/488221/


 Yep I'll agree that that, mind you there have some good videos.

I dislike BKXC especially when he starts getting holier than thou


----------



## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

I'm a fan of Seth. Least boring MTB YouTuber, IMO


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

phantoj said:


> I'm a fan of Seth. Least boring MTB YouTuber, IMO


Yeah, I think he does a great job, and has done more for the sport in the last couple of years than anyone posting here will do in their lifetime.


.


----------



## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

_CJ said:


> Yeah, I think he does a great job, and has done more for the sport in the last couple of years than anyone posting here will do in their lifetime.
> 
> 
> .


So he’s building a lot of trail, sitting in meetings with land managers and other user advocates to preserve and expand access, that kind of thing? Cool. Hard to make compelling social media out of that, but impressive.


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## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

evasive said:


> So he’s building a lot of trail, sitting in meetings with land managers and other user advocates to preserve and expand access, that kind of thing? Cool. Hard to make compelling social media out of that, but impressive.


It sounds like you are being sarcastic, but that's what he talked about in one of his most recent episodes:


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## Bike_Tyson (Jun 4, 2021)

evasive said:


> So he’s building a lot of trail, sitting in meetings with land managers and other user advocates to preserve and expand access, that kind of thing? Cool. Hard to make compelling social media out of that, but impressive.


If this was intended to be a sarcastic gotcha, yikes, was it ill informed. Big oof. How embarrassing...

Not only did he organize the building of a bike park and trails, he paid for a significant portion of it.

If it was genuine, the above is left to educate others who think YouTube mountain bikers don't add any value to the sport.


----------



## Tallboy723 (4 mo ago)

Man all these comments about MTBers posting their rides. I’ve been out of the MTB scene for so long. Now I’m back after buying a new bike. So I haven’t watched much content for a long time to know anyone or judge them for that matter. I’ve been following more biking content on Instagram and have watched a few MTB videos on the tube. BKXC being one of them. I bought some Trail 1 grips and suddenly I’m getting feeds for BKXC. That’s when I realized BKXC was associated with T1. I think he does a pretty job with content and his discussion. I don’t really put too much into the riders skill level. I watch to see the locations and what the trail has to offer so that I may want to visit. I’m sure I will come across more content as time goes on so we’ll see what others have to offer.


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

EvanMTB gets it -


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Bike_Tyson said:


> If this was intended to be a sarcastic gotcha, yikes, was it ill informed. Big oof. How embarrassing...
> 
> Not only did he organize the building of a bike park and trails, he paid for a significant portion of it.
> 
> If it was genuine, the above is left to educate others who think YouTube mountain bikers don't add any value to the sport.


It’s cool that he did that, but he’s not the only person who’s opened a bike park to the public.


----------



## SkyAboveDirtBelow (Apr 14, 2019)

evasive said:


> It’s cool that he did that, but he’s not the only person who’s opened a bike park to the public.


How many have you opened?


----------



## Bike_Tyson (Jun 4, 2021)

evasive said:


> It’s cool that he did that, but he’s not the only person who’s opened a bike park to the public.


And him showing the process through multiple videos is helpful to those that may want to. Him funding and organizing it is actually pretty impressive. 

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with your comments here. I think we all appreciate the efforts of trail builders. Even the YouTube channels that don't highlight trail building are still mostly positive for trail advocacy as they build interest and expanded audience which can lead to more traffic which can lead to more funding long term if the local trail association is competently run.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

cacatous said:


> EvanMTB gets it -


Although he has a point, showing him avoiding the advanced features at medium speed just doesn't make for very interesting viewing. He's not the only one who puts up YouTube videos of medium-skilled riding though. Those types of videos are good for reconnaisance at least, but not so much for stoke.


----------



## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

cassieno said:


> When that's literally how you earn you living what else would you call it?


Well, I would call it a joke. Just because you get paid to do something doesn’t automatically mean you are a “professional”. Looks like you think differently, so have good luck with that, but there is a saying, “don’t quit your day job”. It’s not like most all YouTubers only income is from you tube. The last thing we need is a guy like this representing MTB so good riddance to all posers making sh!t mtb content and turning off others to our sport for a few bucks.


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## nobody special (Jun 21, 2019)

cacatous said:


> EvanMTB gets it -


Then why is he buying an enduro bike?  The only real reason to have an enduro bike is to descend as fast as humanly possible after climbing the hill under pedal power. If he wants to ride slow, one can ride most anything slow on a trail bike. Heck if one wanted the endurance and human performance aspect, why not ride it all on a rigid singlespeed?

His channel is all advertising and sponsorship plugs. Thats it. The enduro bike is the next plan for many months of video production so he can progress the advertising and sponsorships. The sponsorships and advertising revenue is the channel goal, the video content is just the required filler to transition from one revenue stream to the next.

If someone wants a bike, go buy a bike, I don't care, people can ride what they want to ride, I have an enduro bike also which I really don't "need". However, the whole justification of not wanting to ride fast because "I'm 33 and have 4 kids", OK... Thats a convenient excuse. I'm 51 and have 2 kids, I guess I like to ride fast to save money on brake pads?  Like I said above, the enduro bike is just the next plan for many months of video production so he can progress the advertising and sponsorships. That is the same as what paul the punters channel was.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Winning!




This thread.


----------



## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

SkyAboveDirtBelow said:


> How many have you opened?


Two off the ground, one in the works, and one in litigation. Maybe not parks per se with controlled access, but bike-specific riding zones.



Bike_Tyson said:


> And him showing the process through multiple videos is helpful to those that may want to. Him funding and organizing it is actually pretty impressive.
> 
> I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with your comments here. I think we all appreciate the efforts of trail builders. Even the YouTube channels that don't highlight trail building are still mostly positive for trail advocacy as they build interest and expanded audience which can lead to more traffic which can lead to more funding long term if the local trail association is competently run.


I responded to a post that said he has "done more for the sport in the last couple of years than anyone posting here will do in their lifetime." I'm not demeaning or dismissing what Seth has done, but that kind of comment shows an ignorance of what a lot of other people are doing in the background. A friend of mine spent over a decade scouting and proposing locations for a new riding center on BLM land. He dealt with the federal land planning process, hunters, hikers, and conservationists opposed to new trails, and finally got approval for his 3rd proposed site. He worked the riding communities over a quarter of the state to rally behind it with support and donations. Then he designed most of it, built some of it, and engaged professional trail builders for the critical parts. One of those builders has built most of the bike-specific trail at two lift-served parks and they recently opened their own park on land they bought themselves. I know plenty of other people who have spent half a lifetime engaged in lobbying, collaboration, and at times, lawsuits that affect bike access to whole landscapes.


----------



## Battery (May 7, 2016)

I haven't ridden in 2 weeks. Does that mean I walked away too? 🥴


----------



## Bike_Tyson (Jun 4, 2021)

evasive said:


> Two off the ground, one in the works, and one in litigation. Maybe not parks per se with controlled access, but bike-specific riding zones.
> 
> 
> 
> I responded to a post that said he has "done more for the sport in the last couple of years than anyone posting here will do in their lifetime." I'm not demeaning or dismissing what Seth has done, but that kind of comment shows an ignorance of what a lot of other people are doing in the background. A friend of mine spent over a decade scouting and proposing locations for a new riding center on BLM land. He dealt with the federal land planning process, hunters, hikers, and conservationists opposed to new trails, and finally got approval for his 3rd proposed site. He worked the riding communities over a quarter of the state to rally behind it with support and donations. Then he designed most of it, built some of it, and engaged professional trail builders for the critical parts. One of those builders has built most of the bike-specific trail at two lift-served parks and they recently opened their own park on land they bought themselves. I know plenty of other people who have spent half a lifetime engaged in lobbying, collaboration, and at times, lawsuits that affect bike access to whole landscapes.


Again, I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish with these comments. You just sound salty that you and your cohorts aren't getting proper recognition.

We're all appreciative of trail builders and groups. Our local chapter has built major trail systems in 8 parks, most from scratch in under 15 years. They put in huge amounts of work, and a whole lot of it doesn't involve moving any dirt. 

Seth gets recognition because he makes entertaining videos and reaches a huge audience.

If you want more recognition, then start a channel about trail building and advocacy and make it entertaining and then you'll get your flowers.


----------



## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Battery said:


> I haven't ridden in 2 weeks. Does that mean I walked away too? 🥴


No. You must make a ridiculously long video whining about why you quit. And expect the world to give a sh!t


----------



## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Sir kayakalot said:


> No. You must make a ridiculously long video whining about why you quit. And expect the world to give a sh!t


Ok let me work on that!


----------



## SkyAboveDirtBelow (Apr 14, 2019)

evasive said:


> I responded to a post that said he has "done more for the sport in the last couple of years than anyone posting here will do in their lifetime." I'm not demeaning or dismissing what Seth has done, but that kind of comment shows an ignorance of what a lot of other people are doing in the background. A friend of mine spent over a decade scouting and proposing locations for a new riding center on BLM land. He dealt with the federal land planning process, hunters, hikers, and conservationists opposed to new trails, and finally got approval for his 3rd proposed site. He worked the riding communities over a quarter of the state to rally behind it with support and donations. Then he designed most of it, built some of it, and engaged professional trail builders for the critical parts. One of those builders has built most of the bike-specific trail at two lift-served parks and they recently opened their own park on land they bought themselves. I know plenty of other people who have spent half a lifetime engaged in lobbying, collaboration, and at times, lawsuits that affect bike access to whole landscapes.


You sound salty.


----------



## Matt The Hammer (3 mo ago)

Bike_Tyson said:


> Seth gets recognition because he makes entertaining videos and reaches a huge audience.


Respect him for making his channel to what it is today. I wish I spent time learning how to make video and editing. There's a ton of money to made.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Matt The Hammer said:


> Respect him for making his channel to what it is today. I wish I spent time learning how to make video and editing. There's a ton of money to made.


Not really. You've got to be deep into the seven figures on views to even start making "real money". There is of course money from sponsors, Patreon, events, etc. and you've got to really hustle to make it work, but most of these people are faking it, living on money from outside their channels. Kind of like a lot of the "professionals" in most hobby-sports.

.


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

It's a lot harder to differentiate yourself when there are 1000 other people trying to do the same thing. 

Seth hit the timing right, when he came on the scene there weren't a lot of other active YouTubers and the content that was out there was rough. He was doing a much better job with editing and format than the others were at the time, he also appealed to an audience none of the others at the time really appealed to. Brian and Alex came on the scene a little bit after, the rest started trickling in after that. He doesn't owe all of his success to timing, he clearly had enough sense to figure out how to monetize it and see what connected with people (even non-mtbers), but timing was a big part of it considering no one else was doing this when he started ~2014-2015. Expecting anywhere near that level of success now isn't really reasonable unless you find a niche that connects with a wide range of people that isn't already filled with good content.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Adodero said:


> Seth hit the timing right


Speaking of people living a lifestyle far beyond what a Youtube channel will support....

Don't get me wrong. I like his videos, and he's doing a lot of great things for the sport, but I can't imagine his little MTB channel supports the home he lives in, and the lifestyle he leads. I don't know, maybe he has some other job or source of income, maybe there's some family money in the background, maybe his wife does well, or whatever - not that there's anything wrong with that, but I think it would be a mistake for anyone to assume his lifestyle is realistic for anyone with a similar amount of success on YT.

.


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## Bike_Tyson (Jun 4, 2021)

Adodero said:


> It's a lot harder to differentiate yourself when there are 1000 other people trying to do the same thing.
> 
> Seth hit the timing right, when he came on the scene there weren't a lot of other active YouTubers and the content that was out there was rough. He was doing a much better job with editing and format than the others were at the time, he also appealed to an audience none of the others at the time really appealed to. Brian and Alex came on the scene a little bit after, the rest started trickling in after that. He doesn't owe all of his success to timing, he clearly had enough sense to figure out how to monetize it and see what connected with people (even non-mtbers), but timing was a big part of it considering no one else was doing this when he started ~2014-2015. Expecting anywhere near that level of success now isn't really reasonable unless you find a niche that connects with a wide range of people that isn't already filled with good content.


Seth was also great at picking out interesting ideas for videos. BKXC and SS are almost exclusively 'watch me ride' vs. Seth who looks at all aspects of the sport and makes all topics approachable. Hence, his larger audience.

With that said (and for as much as I've defended him here), I've found his stuff from the last few months pretty boring. Ever since he had his daughter, his videos aren't as interesting. Good for him to focus on his family, but the flip bike series and the RC videos are real duds (for me). 

Peak Seth was when he was still in Florida.


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## Matt The Hammer (3 mo ago)

Hopefully he bought the new place in full with YT money. You know as fast as it grew, it will go away.


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## Bike_Tyson (Jun 4, 2021)

_CJ said:


> Speaking of people living a lifestyle far beyond what a Youtube channel will support....
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I like his videos, and he's doing a lot of great things for the sport, but I can't imagine his little MTB channel supports the home he lives in, and the lifestyle he leads. I don't know, maybe he has some other job or source of income, maybe there's some family money in the background, maybe his wife does well, or whatever - not that there's anything wrong with that, but I think it would be a mistake for anyone to assume his lifestyle is realistic for anyone with a similar amount of success on YT.
> 
> .


I don't know. At one time his Patreon was public and it was well over 10k a month in donations. Couple that with ad view income, which I recall is around 1k per 1M views (at 2 a week), his merch, his sponsorships, and any other professional income, and I think he's doing pretty well. Definitely one of the top MTB earners on YT. He's making enough to pay for an editor and to funnel money into a free MTB park, so he cannot be doing too badly.

EDIT: Addendum to above. Just checked and his Patreon is lower than I thought and is still public. Approximately 3K a month, which is still pretty good, but definitely not as high as what I recalled. I might be conflating the 10k number with another channel I liked which made about that before they set the number to private.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

depression is a helluva malady. some of you are dickheads.


----------



## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

mack_turtle said:


> depression is a helluva malady. some of you are dickheads.


????


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## SkyAboveDirtBelow (Apr 14, 2019)

Bike_Tyson said:


> With that said (and for as much as I've defended him here), I've found his stuff from the last few months pretty boring. Ever since he had his daughter, his videos aren't as interesting. Good for him to focus on his family, but the flip bike series and the RC videos are real duds (for me).
> 
> Peak Seth was when he was still in Florida.


Seth needs to do a road trip. He and Alex should do something like take a tandem MTB and do the San Juan hut-to-hut route. I expect both of them would get awesome and hilarious content from something like that, and it would be reminiscent of their Florida Keys trip. 

Really, as part of his job, he should do a couple of extended trips a year where he could get half a dozen videos from each one. Confining himself to his house (and the previous house) has restricted the content he makes.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

Matt The Hammer said:


> Hopefully he bought the new place in full with YT money. You know as fast as it grew, it will go away.


It could have also been funding by selling his old place down in Florida.


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Never count other people's money.


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Most of the YTers you see promoting products are paid by the brand, sometimes a little bit, sometimes a lot. When you have that quantity of subscribers, it's a lot. You also have swag you sell (I honestly don't understand why people buy this stuff, but to each their own) and whatever you get from YouTube. 

There are plenty of internet celebrities who have made millions doing all of this, so it's not that far out of reach that he made enough to live where he does comfortably. This area is also not obscenely expensive when it comes to cost of living, you don't have to make millions a year to live in a nice neighborhood and comfortably around here (that is steadily changing though). The area he's in is pretty high end, but not out of reach for folks making a decent salary.


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## Wabatuckian (9 mo ago)

I'll never understand why people make long, rambling videos like this, or why anyone would spend any amount of time watching anyone's ugly mug pontificate unless forced to.

Hell, I scroll past any video that features anyone's face on the thumbnail. I want to know about the gear.

YouTube celebrities are what's wrong with the world.


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## Wabatuckian (9 mo ago)

mack_turtle said:


> depression is a helluva malady. some of you are dickheads.


Agreed on both counts... But what brought this on?

Granted, I'm a product of a 1990s rural public school education, and might have skimmed over it.


----------



## nobody special (Jun 21, 2019)

I have heard that Seths wife is a physician, but I don't know if it is true. I know some people out in western NC who have said this but no idea if it is actually true or not. If true, some of the infrastructure may just be affordable to him regardless of the channels success, however, some of those cameras are really expensive, so if his channel was not successful, it may not be so desirable to continue (?).

However, of the MTB channels, his continues to be one of the most interesting. He does interesting stuff, the videos are not so obviously packed full of advertising and sponsorships like the other channels, he can ride pretty well when he does POV stuff, and his face is not constantly in the camera sitting at a desk stationary or somewhere else not on a bicycle. Also I have not heard bad language in his videos for years now, which means I can just let my young kids watch it without thinking too much about it.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Adodero said:


> Most of the YTers you see promoting products are paid by the brand, sometimes a little bit, sometimes a lot. When you have that quantity of subscribers, it's a lot. You also have swag you sell (I honestly don't understand why people buy this stuff, but to each their own) and whatever you get from YouTube.
> 
> There are plenty of internet celebrities who have made millions doing all of this, so it's not that far out of reach that he made enough to live where he does comfortably. This area is also not obscenely expensive when it comes to cost of living, you don't have to make millions a year to live in a nice neighborhood and comfortably around here (that is steadily changing though). The area he's in is pretty high end, but not out of reach for folks making a decent salary.


I went and looked at his average views per video, and number of videos per year. I honestly didn't realize how popular he was. Without question, _he is killing it_....for a mountain bike channel, but the real YT stars, the ones making millions? They're reaching a much broader audience, getting millions of views _per day_. That's where the money is. It's kind of sad really. You can see how hard Seth works, and the quality of the content he provides, only to get 1M views in the lifetime of a video, and then some hack throws together a video of car crashes, girls jumping on trampolines, some video game crap, or whatever - clips they probably stole from somewhere else, and they're just crushing it.

I'm happy that Seth is doing well with the channel, channels I guess. His content is on a higher level than most, and he's doing a ton of good things for the sport. This clearly isn't all about money for him, and people should respect that.

He's really hit on something at the right time. It'd be hard for anyone to do the same these days. Lately more and more of the channels I follow are going silent. I just don't think the money is there for them relative to the amount of work involved. Seems more and more, YT is being taken over by big corps and major media. Hopefully some of the small guys can continue to make it work.

.


----------



## nobody special (Jun 21, 2019)

MTB is a very small target market. Honestly making MTB videos is a dumb business decision.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

It seems like most successful YouTubers also have channels on other socials: Instagram, TikTok, whatever else the kids these days are using, and I'm assuming that each social network produces some income. One of my colleagues had over 1M followers on TikTok, so when she started her YouTube channel last year she had over 1M followers within half a year. Now I see she's closing in on 2M YT followers. I'm guessing that her TikTok followers just migrated to YouTube. My YT channel is now bursting open with 13 followers.

This site has a YouTuber income estimator. Enter in Berm Peak or whichever other sites you want:


https://socialblade.com/youtube/c/sethsbikehacks


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Biohazard74 said:


> just stick to the guys that you can tell are the true lovers of MTB.


BCPov. He's out there in BC, building trails in the cold rain, snow, heat, etc. He definitely puts a lot of effort into his videos too which are very engaging.

It's pretty clear that he'll likely be riding as long as his body will let him and his passion for it comes through in his videos.


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Curveball said:


> BCPov. He's out there in BC, building trails in the cold rain, snow, heat, etc. He definitely puts a lot of effort into his videos too which are very engaging.
> 
> It's pretty clear that he'll likely be riding as long as his body will let him and his passion for it comes through in his videos.


Plus he just seems like a really nice person


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

evasive said:


> Two off the ground, one in the works, and one in litigation. Maybe not parks per se with controlled access, but bike-specific riding zones.
> 
> 
> 
> I responded to a post that said he has "done more for the sport in the last couple of years than anyone posting here will do in their lifetime." I'm not demeaning or dismissing what Seth has done, but that kind of comment shows an ignorance of what a lot of other people are doing in the background. A friend of mine spent over a decade scouting and proposing locations for a new riding center on BLM land. He dealt with the federal land planning process, hunters, hikers, and conservationists opposed to new trails, and finally got approval for his 3rd proposed site. He worked the riding communities over a quarter of the state to rally behind it with support and donations. Then he designed most of it, built some of it, and engaged professional trail builders for the critical parts. _One of those builders has built most of the bike-specific trail at two lift-served parks and they recently opened their own park on land they bought themselves_. I know plenty of other people who have spent half a lifetime engaged in lobbying, collaboration, and at times, lawsuits that affect bike access to whole landscapes.


Legacy?


----------



## Battery (May 7, 2016)

I was thinking about making a 30 min video how I plan to walk away from MTB and ride on my Peloton full time instead. When spring rolls around, I was gonna make another 30 min video and tell everyone how I plan to return. I think it will be a hit video on Youtube!


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Battery said:


> I was thinking about making a 30 min video how I plan to walk away from MTB and ride on my Peloton full time instead. When spring rolls around, I was gonna make another 30 min video and tell everyone how I plan to return. I think it will be a hit video on Youtube!


I'll smash that like button and subscribe!


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Paul opens with "here is why I am not going to mtb anymore." He spends like 2 to e mins explaining it. And then gives you permission to leave. The rest of the video is for his subscribers who want to listen to him talk. 

Y'all acting like you were strapped into a chair and forced to watch this. 

This thread has gone on for far longer than that video ever did. At least it had a clear ending.


----------



## Brian Parker (Oct 14, 2021)

_CJ said:


> I stumbled across this guy's video yesterday. Have no idea who he is, haven't watched any of his other videos, but I think he makes some very good points about what's going on in the MTB world these days. I see a lot of the same in other sports/hobbies, so maybe it's more of a societal issue? or, maybe it's just par for the course with competitive type A personalities that seem to be so prevalent in cycling? For sure, a lot of what he talks about can apply equally to roadies too.
> 
> 
> 
> .


 Dude is a pussified Kook. I barfed on my new clip in slippers after i listened to this whiny ***** for ten minutes.


----------



## eddieg7227 (Apr 15, 2017)

Bike_Tyson said:


> Seth was also great at picking out interesting ideas for videos. BKXC and SS are almost exclusively 'watch me ride' vs. Seth who looks at all aspects of the sport and makes all topics approachable. Hence, his larger audience.
> 
> With that said (and for as much as I've defended him here), I've found his stuff from the last few months pretty boring. Ever since he had his daughter, his videos aren't as interesting. Good for him to focus on his family, but the flip bike series and the RC videos are real duds (for me).
> 
> Peak Seth was when he was still in Florida.


I have a theory of why you may think this way. In Florida MTB was much more niche and you have to have major passion to do it. In the mountains so many people and kids ride that it makes it not unique anymore. I can’t speculate on much else but how those might affect video ideas.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

I decided to delete my FB account last night. I need some content ideas to create a 30 min explanation why I did it. Any ideas?


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## Wabatuckian (9 mo ago)

Battery said:


> I decided to delete my FB account last night. I need some content ideas to create a 30 min explanation why I did it. Any ideas?


Sure. Since people are FB's product, just count up the ways people suck and rant about them for half an hour.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Battery said:


> I decided to delete my FB account last night. I need some content ideas to create a 30 min explanation why I did it. Any ideas?


Your Facebook content was lousy. You need to progress and send it more each time you post. We don't care that you might get injured, push it.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Brian Parker said:


> Dude is a pussified Kook. I barfed on my new clip in slippers after i listened to this whiny *** for ten minutes.


Unfortunately, you cannot get that 10 minutes of your like back to use in a more enjoyable way.


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## Wabatuckian (9 mo ago)

BansheeRune said:


> Unfortunately, you cannot get that 10 minutes of your like back to use in a more enjoyable way.


What if that 10 minutes he spent on that delayed him from being in a place an accident would have otherwise taken place?

Maybe, for example, he was busy watching YouTube when he'd otherwise have been crossing the street at the very moment a drunk driver ran the light.

He might owe this dude his life.


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## Matt The Hammer (3 mo ago)

This thread sucks.


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## Wabatuckian (9 mo ago)

Matt The Hammer said:


> This thread sucks.


Then you need to make a video about it and walk away. We've established that these are the rules.


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## Mojosauce (Mar 18, 2021)

We have come full circle
BKXC Weighs In


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Insert disparaging comments about influencers, Instagramers, youtubers. More comments about how they have to get a real job. More complaints about how they forced me to waste my time listening to them talk. Also it's all boring, but here I am posting about it.

My lawn is better than your lawn.


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## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

cassieno said:


> Insert disparaging comments about influencers, Instagramers, youtubers. More comments about how they have to get a real job. More complaints about how they forced me to waste my time listening to them talk. Also it's all boring, but here I am posting about it.
> 
> My lawn is better than your lawn.


But i run my leaf blower with more steeze.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

cassieno said:


> Insert disparaging comments about influencers, Instagramers, youtubers. More comments about how they have to get a real job. More complaints about how they forced me to waste my time listening to them talk. Also it's all boring, but here I am posting about it.
> 
> My lawn is better than your lawn.


You still have a lawn? How quaint.


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