# Quick question about sgs vs gs and top/normal low/normal



## Automan (Mar 11, 2010)

Is a rear der for example xtr rd-m970 sgs any good for some hard downhill and freeride ? i guess that longer body will maybe not work.... maybe it will work, you pros would know this.

I have read averything i could find here about this sgs vs gs, but i still would like your opinion on what to get.

I have placed an order on a shimano xtr rd-m970 sgs low/normal, like the low/normal thing.. but i can probably still change it if i have to.

If my choice is way off for downhill and some freeride, what should i get then ?

Shimano saint rd-m810 gs top/normal
Shimano xtr rd-m970 gs low/normal

Or something else ?

Please if you got the time, throw some advice this way.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

SramX-9's and X-0's are the leader


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## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

Automan said:


> Is a rear der for example xtr rd-m970 sgs any good for some hard downhill and freeride ? i guess that longer body will maybe not work.... maybe it will work, you pros would know this.
> 
> I have read averything i could find here about this sgs vs gs, but i still would like your opinion on what to get.
> 
> ...


I really wish shimano would just say what their products were instead of putting weird letters and numbers all over the place.

sgs vs gs = Its just the fancy way of saying long vs mid cage. sgs = long, gs = mid. So this depends on what setup your running. How many rings do you have up front. What spread of gears do you have in the back? I would get the GS though. you should be fine with it

The rest im not sure about. The shadow design is probably one of those things though. The shadow feature is pretty sweet.

Id say go for either the saints though. Maybe even the xt's. Im sure both would be stronger than the xtr's.

Ill put a disclaimer though. I have ridden sram for the last three years and my new build will be the first one with shimano gearing. should be interesting.


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## Automan (Mar 11, 2010)

Im running only rear 9gears (biggest is 32 i think), no der in front at all only one cog in front. 

I have checked out the sram line, some interresting models there and its pretty hard to choose.... but right now i think im leaning towards the saint 810 gs model, with the saint gearhandle... i think that will be the best bet for real hard dh and fr, it seams to have the strongest springs and folds in very neat and have a stronger build then the xt or xtr's, the saint line seams to be more designed for real bad terrain and the xtr's etc more for the roadbikes.... but that is old news and everyone knows that, beside me :madman: 

I have been away from this for so many many years, and im just getting up to date with everything again.. that's why im like this right now


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

climbingbubba said:


> I really wish shimano would just say what their products were instead of putting weird letters and numbers all over the place..


You mean like XO, X9, X7, Xx, Black Box, Noir, Domain 318, Pike 454, etc?


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## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

Jayem said:


> You mean like XO, X9, X7, Xx, Black Box, Noir, Domain 318, Pike 454, etc?


ha ha, yeah they are all a little messed up.

Shimano does go one step further though. for example the rear der i bought is the shimano xt shadow mid cage but in shimano language its RD-M772-GS . The only difference between the shadow and the regular is m772 for the shadow and m771 for the regular.


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## Zebdog (Oct 14, 2008)

I have a very similar question. 
I have a SHimano LW RD on but want to get an XT RD. I run 27 gears, and ride XC/trail/light AM? - std stuff.

Do I get the medium cage GS, or the long cage SGS??

I measured my current LX and its long cage at 100mm. 
I asked the dude in the LBS and they only had a medium cage and he said it doesn't matter which one you put on, but I don't really have a lot of faith in this. Why else would they make a long cage/ med cage

COnfused? I am...


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## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

Zebdog said:


> I have a very similar question.
> I have a SHimano LW RD on but want to get an XT RD. I run 27 gears, and ride XC/trail/light AM? - std stuff.
> 
> Do I get the medium cage GS, or the long cage SGS??
> ...


it sounds like they are trying to sell something and don't care if it doesn't work.

It says on the shimano website that the max tooth capacity for the mid cage (gs) is 33t up front and the max for the long cage (sgs) is 45t. So if you are running 3 rings you will want a long cage.


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## Automan (Mar 11, 2010)

I have also heard that if you have 3rings in front you would want the long cage. On the other hand it wont keep the chain as tight as a gs model will, the long cage will work fine if your light offroad driving and not driving to much between rocks etc, cause that long cage sgs will be much more exposed and fragile then the gs model. I can't say for sure if you are able to use the gs on your setup, but you will be able to use the sgs with no problems. I think more pros here will help you out soon with a 100% ansvwer, and if it's possible for you to use the gs.... as shorter is better if you are mostly offroad kinda guy and want your stuff to work for a longer time.


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## Zebdog (Oct 14, 2008)

thanks for your comments guys, and any others are appreciated

I ride trails with plenty of rocks in them, which I try my best to avoid, but the potential to hit them is quite high.


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## climbingbubba (Jan 10, 2007)

Zebdog said:


> thanks for your comments guys, and any others are appreciated
> 
> I ride trails with plenty of rocks in them, which I try my best to avoid, but the potential to hit them is quite high.


Like i had said, go with the long cage if you are running 3 gears up front. Having 3 gears of such different sizes up front means you need lots of chain sucked up while in the smaller gears. Doesn't have much to do with rocks. a mid cage may perform a little better as far as chain tension but it won't do you any good when you can't shift into your largest ring in the front. Plus going against shimano's reccomendation will void any warranty on it and probably cause it to fail.

as a general rule

3 gears up front use long cage
2 gears up front use mid cage or large if you want
1 gear up front use a short or mid cage depending on suspension design and what cassette ratio's you are using (ie. if you run 11-34 cassette then a mid cage might be better. if you run a road cassette like 11-28 or even up to 11-32 then use a short cage) Also consider if the bike has a lot of chain growth (lots of rearward travel) then you would want a longer rear der cage to compensate for the changes in the chain tension.


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## grandsalmon (Oct 24, 2005)

All Shadow GS's are a longer cage than normal mid's of the past (there is no real standard to the term- they do change and you have to go by max tooth capacity stated). Shadow design, as the new Saint shares, does have a stronger spring- detent feel. You can almost always exclude a long cage unless running 3 front rings- even then I have used med's there too. 
*Use the calculator on a Shimano TechDoc (web) or the sticky in drivetrain forum.*

On the Techdoc that come with a Shadow derail, the SGS actually says "Super long Derailleur"- ain't that a hoot! I think Shimano is moving the overall MTB med's to a slightly longer cage per our ride style these days.
Absolutely run a MTB mid cage whatever at the most- it is more than enough for a 1x9*

*some mediums can have too short a parallelogram to reach a 36 rear cog, but that is another subject and sort.

climbingbubba gives even more considerations...


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## singletrackin (Oct 15, 2004)

The only thing sram is the leader in is buying out companys that couldn't make it in the real world



SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> SramX-9's and X-0's are the leader


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

Jayem said:


> You mean like XO, X9, X7, Xx, Black Box, Noir, Domain 318, Pike 454, etc?


How is X7, X9, XO, Xx any different than BMW with it's 3 series, 5 series. 6 series. 7 series?

Is is THAT weird that you can't follow it?

At least it's numerical where Shimano is completely alphabetical. If you weren't into MTBing how would you know that XT is better than LX? Or XTR is the top? And for that matter where the heck does SLX fit in? Saint? Saint what? That doesn't even fit the naming convention.

I agree with the fork designation however for the record, Shimano doesn't make forks so comparing the Domain and Pike is apples to ......nothing.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Khemical said:


> I agree with the fork designation however for the record, Shimano doesn't make forks so comparing the Domain and Pike is apples to ......nothing.


True, but SRAM does make that stuff, in addition to other companies that they've bought out. Claiming one is better than the other sounds pretty lame, given all the different product lines with wierd names. WTF is SRAM's problem then? But it would be rediculous to single out SRAM, just as it is to single out Shimano.


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## sith_lord (Jun 11, 2009)

Hi!
I just tried to find the calculator on Shimano's web site grandsalmon mentioned in #12 post, but without any success. Can someone help me out by providing me a link? Thanks!


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