# Why Juliana? New 2017 Model Year Changes



## MTBR_Saris (Apr 26, 2016)

Juliana just launched some product spec changes to their lineup, although bike colors haven't changed for this year. Here are the highlights from the PR they just sent out:



Juliana-specific suspension tunes bring out the best in the new product line. Each tune is the result of our female development team pinpointing what works best for the intended use and anticipated rider of each model.
That same feedback drives the updated premium build specs, which keep our bikes light and right for what a modern female mountain biker wants. Key updates include:
Eagle drivetrains on XX1 and XO1 build kits.
A lower priced 1x option, starting at $3599.
30t chainrings spec'd across the line, except on 27.5 wheel bikes with Eagle.
A revised saddle, with an updated cover and sleeker shape. XX1 models come with premium carbon railed version.




What I am most excited for is the new "Why Juliana" portion of their website (screenshot above) that explains their whole philosophy.

I'll start working on a full-length writeup for the homage shortly. If you have any questions, drop them here and I'll do my best to get them answered!


----------



## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Are you an advertiser or vendor or do you get achieve some sort of substantive gain from your reviews online here? If so, perhaps you should mention it in the interest of full disclosure. I definitely appreciate the info that you have provided but if you're a professional reviewer for MTBR or something similar, as it looks like from your signature, it would be great to include a line or something in your post summary so everybody is clear where your perspective is coming from as maybe people are like me and not everybody actually notice posters' signatures. I don't actually click on signature links so I may be way off. If so, I apologize. Or maybe add something to your profile so that it shows up under your name on the left there to avoid confusion? <---

Looking forward to more info on an interesting bike from a great company. thank you for your summary and please do give us a review or further information as it becomes available.


----------



## MTBR_Saris (Apr 26, 2016)

No, I am not an advertiser or vendor. I thought it was pretty obvious from the content I've posted that I'm a editor for the site. I had originally listed "tech editor, MTBR" where it now says "Keyboard Warrior" but changed it due some friendly ribbing in another forum. I guess you can't satisfy everyone.

Back on the topic of bikes, I just posted an overview of the new Juliana 2017 product spec and "Why Juli" topic. You can check it out here.


----------



## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

MTBR_Saris said:


> No, I am not an advertiser or vendor. I thought it was pretty obvious from the content I've posted that I'm a editor for the site. I had originally listed "tech editor, MTBR" where it now says "Keyboard Warrior" but changed it due some friendly ribbing in another forum. I guess you can't satisfy everyone.
> 
> Back on the topic of bikes, I just posted an overview of the new Juliana 2017 product spec and "Why Juli" topic. You can check it out here.


Maybe understand that with your low count and my company's policy of not clicking links that it was a valid request. Feel free to complain to Gregg or francis if you think I'm overreaching. I am not here to satisfy people but to make sure that rules are fairly applied. I thought my post to you was fair, justified and to clear up any bias. Plenty of keyboard warriors here as it doesn't mean anything significant to me of ones' occupation and I had no idea that it was an inside joke from another forum.


----------



## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

Thanks for posting, Saris. This forum is DEAD compared to what it was a few years ago, so any activity is an improvement. Hopefully some posts on the part of the editors will liven it back up. There has to be something better than "what bike for my wife" to talk about as it relates to women's cycling.


----------



## HotHead (Feb 24, 2015)

girlonbike said:


> Maybe understand that with your low count and my company's policy of not clicking links that it was a valid request. Feel free to complain to Gregg or francis if you think I'm overreaching. I am not here to satisfy people but to make sure that rules are fairly applied. I thought my post to you was fair, justified and to clear up any bias. Plenty of keyboard warriors here as it doesn't mean anything significant to me of ones' occupation and I had no idea that it was an inside joke from another forum.


I thought it was a valid question. I was wondering same.


----------



## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

That's not a very nice comment. I think that noting the activity level is very low compared to its heyday is a pretty legitimate observation. Yes, there are lots of good posts about other women, it has been fun to watch that develop, but it is still a pretty quiet forum dominated by just a few people who have been here for a while. 

I think it is great that MTBr has a female editor/contributor and that she is actively participating in the boards. If it were Francis, no one would question his participation, and I think we should be just as welcoming to Saris. The fact is, if this were a standard board, the guys would focus on the interesting information she presented, dissect it back and forth and focus on the thing that fuels our passion - bikes and cycling. Instead, here, people are making her feel unwelcome and doing something I always hate to see in a women's group which is tearing her down and limiting her participation unless she conforms to some cloudy "rules" that to me feel more like mean-girling than anything else. How on earth is it hurting anyone to have a couple of extra posts on the Women's Lounge? If you don't like it, don't read it and don't participate and the threads will die. 

Saris gets a ton of press releases re product and bringing new product to our attention while also mentioning that she is going to do a review/write up on the ideas behind the product is more attention than this board has received from the editors in years, without any specific endorsement of the product. Good on you, Saris and welcome to the Women's Lounge!


----------



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

> I think that noting the activity level is very low compared to its heyday is a pretty legitimate observation.


I think about this a lot. Has other media drawn folks away from the forum experience? Has then idea of "how much NEW is there to discuss, anyway" gotten in the way of posting? Are internet boards pass their heyday?

I've been hanging out in the 50+ a lot lately.


----------



## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

formica said:


> Are internet boards pass their heyday?


Ding Ding


----------



## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

To get back to the actual topic: 

I think it's interesting to consider the difference in approach between Liv and Juliana - both hot Women's brands right now, but very different bikes and philosophies. Judging by website copy alone, it would seem that Juliana targets a more advanced rider, but I realize that's a major oversimplification. I also realize that perhaps Juliana just has more technically adept marketing people. 

In any case, those Juliana bikes look bad ass. Would shred.


----------



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

have you looked at the Hail? Aimed directly at enduro/dh/hardcore.

Funny thing about Juliana.. I was on a shop ride last week, and the owner was totally not on board with the different geometries. He was totally of the "same bike, pinked and shrinked" as the mens, in a condescending kind of way.


----------



## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

formica said:


> have you looked at the Hail? Aimed directly at enduro/dh/hardcore.
> 
> Funny thing about Juliana.. I was on a shop ride last week, and the owner was totally not on board with the different geometries. He was totally of the "same bike, pinked and shrinked" as the mens, in a condescending kind of way.


Yes, I've seen it. I understand the audience for which they are aiming, but we'll see whether or not their approach resonates with those riders.

Personally, I think it looks about as obnoxious as the rest of the Liv lineup. Just my own opinion, not meant to offend any of the Liv fans here. Ride it if you like it.

Shop owners are just like the rest of us. They all have their different opinions. I wouldn't put too much stock into any one of them.

Anyway, as I said, the observation I made was based solely on web marketing copy (the differences in the bikes themselves is another long discussion). Looking at 140-160mm bikes, these two brands speak very differently to me. One of them feels more patronizing than the other, especially when they're touting 15mm thru axles, tapered head tubes, and dropper post routing, which should be standard on any proper "all-mountain" bike these days.

This doesn't necessarily reflect the performance of the actual product, but as I said before, it is interesting to consider the language used between the two brands.

Juliana Roubion:



> The aggressive, 66-degree head angle now makes the Roubion even more stable when descending at speed. The top tube length has increased to accommodate the use of shorter stems, and the chainstays have been shortened to keep the rear end tight and quick through alpine hairpins. The seat tube angle's also a degree steeper, which puts the rider right above the bottom bracket, where you'll be angle to generate positive traction on even the most technical climbs.
> 
> The new model retains 150mm of VPP travel, but features an entirely new set of links. The lower link now hides completely out of the way, and the upper mounts directly to the top tube to enhance stiffness and bearing life. As a result of the new links, the shock rate is now softer at the top end, which makes for a smoother ride over small bumps. Towards the middle of its six inches of travel, it gets a bit more progressive, so you'll feel confident and composed when you're riding through bigger roots and rocks at speed.
> 
> As Juliana riders continue to push their boundaries, the Roubion stays right there with them.


Liv Intrigue SX:



> Built with the most aggressive female trail riders in mind, the Intrigue SX was created specifically for women who like to push the envelope on challenging terrain. It has the proven geometry of the Intrigue with added travel up front to help you conquer features and reach your full trail riding potential. The lightweight ALUXX SL aluminum frame is designed around 27.5 wheels with women's specific geometry. With 140mm of plush Maestro Suspension in the rear matched with a 160mm travel fork, you have more control to take on rugged terrain. Additional features include the tapered OverDrive steerer tube and a 15mm front thru-axle for precise steering, plus special cable routing for a dropper seatpost-so you can attack anything the trail throws at you without hesitation.


----------



## ryetoast (Jan 24, 2016)

^^^ Interesting comparison, Deep Thought. My immediate reaction was, are the price points comparable? I mean, if someone tries to sell you a $100 bottle of wine, they're going to assume you know about wine and go into considerable detail about why you should buy this one. On the other hand, a $10 bottle of wine's ad copy more or less says "There is wine in here. It tastes like wine."

But some brief googleage on the 2016 models says $3599- $8099 Rubion and $4475 Intrigue SX. +1 for Juliana's product-pushers, IMHO. If you're dropping over a grand on a bike, says my college student budget, you're probably going to want to know EXACTLY why. 

On the other hand, the blurbs for Giant's men's bikes aren't particularly spec-rich either. Maybe this is just the difference between a smallish, MTB-focused, high-end brand and a faceless international full-range all-terrain megabrand...which I'm sure in itself will make many trail-riding hipsters choose the Juliana.

(And as for the decline of forums, I blame the shortening of the modern attention span. Some people find a text box that can contain over 140 characters intimidating. Maybe we can get #meangirlsonbikes trending and rustle up a more populous internet "dialogue" on twitter...if anyone really wants that! )


----------



## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

ryetoast said:


> On the other hand, the blurbs for Giant's men's bikes aren't particularly spec-rich either. Maybe this is just the difference between a smallish, MTB-focused, high-end brand and a faceless international full-range all-terrain megabrand...which I'm sure in itself will make many trail-riding hipsters choose the Juliana.


I reckon that's a lot of the reason for the difference.


----------



## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

I think other reasons are availability. I'd love to check out a Roubion for a demo - except there are zero dealers near me, let alone NYS. Looking further, just two dealers in PA, 1 in Mass...and frankly, I'm not going to buy what I can't see and what I don't know. I've learned from experience that what might look great on paper can be another story all together on the bike. So, having bikes you can actually demo is key - and a lot of the brands readily available on the west coast are a lot harder to come by back east. Cool tech write-ups may help generate interest, it still can't compare to how the bike actually rides. That is something I need to feel, not read.


----------



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

( Caveat, I'm heavily involved with the Liv brand as I co host a ride run by the local Liv ambassador)
Being able to walk into a dealer and KNOW they have smalls in the Intrigue/SX, Lust and other bikes for demo is big +1 in my book. Knowing they are, as we speak, building up a hail and a Pique that I can demo as soon as they are ready, is another +1. Sure the three store locally owned chain is a Giant megabrand dealer, but they sure as heck aren't faceless to me. The Liv brand gives a reasonable amount of floor space to road and mountain bikes, clothing, and accessories... more than I see from any other brand. As far as I can tell they (both the brand and the LBS) have keyed into the building community part of creating shoppers. It's a lot more than just having a bike with different geometry.

I see this as saying more about this LBS than the brand. No one is required to have a lot of offerings for the women's market, but this shop certainly does. They do carry Juliana also, fwiw.


----------



## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

Deep Thought said:


> I reckon that's a lot of the reason for the difference.


What is amusing is the idea that Julian is NOT a part of a "faceless international full-range mega brand". Good work on the part of their marketing team and good management that allows them to keep that small company vibe. They and Santa Cruz are owned by PON Holdings, which is a very large Dutch conglomerate. See below for a fun screen cap from their website:


----------



## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

chuky said:


> What is amusing is the idea that Julian is NOT a part of a "faceless international full-range mega brand". Good work on the part of their marketing team and good management that allows them to keep that small company vibe. They and Santa Cruz are owned by PON Holdings, which is a very large Dutch conglomerate. See below for a fun screen cap from their website:
> 
> View attachment 1081990


I am aware of that. It's the "full-range mega brand" piece that is relevant here. Regardless of who owns Juliana, they still have a very narrow product focus - high-end MTB only. Whereas Liv has an incredibly broad range over several bike categories.

I think Ryetoast's point was that it's a lot easier to portray an image of authenticity that appeals to "core" riders when that's really the only product a brand has to promote.

This is more of a general marketing discussion than a bike discussion, but then again, marketing is a huge influence in the women's bike market.


----------



## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

I think both serve their intended purposes - to get women out there riding! I think it's important there are a variety of companies out there addressing the different needs of women, in whatever way they can. What may work for some, may not work for others, so having something else available to try is a good thing, right? Not everyone can or wants to afford a $7,000+ bike, especially if they are just getting into the sport or have limited time or funds. Perhaps Liv addresses those needs. Then there are others who may feel Juliana works best for them - they have that option. I don't know that we can say one is better than the other, or more legitimate? Does having a higher price tag necessarily guarantee quality or longevity in a ride?


----------



## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

petey15 said:


> I think both serve their intended purposes - to get women out there riding! I think it's important there are a variety of companies out there addressing the different needs of women, in whatever way they can. What may work for some, may not work for others, so having something else available to try is a good thing, right? *Not everyone can or wants to afford a $7,000+ bike, especially if they are just getting into the sport or have limited time or funds. Perhaps Liv addresses those needs.* Then there are others who may feel Juliana works best for them - they have that option. I don't know that we can say one is better than the other, or more legitimate? Does having a higher price tag necessarily guarantee quality or longevity in a ride?


That was exactly my original point. 

I'm not saying one is better than the other. I am saying they each have a different approach.

Obviously one of them appeals more to me than the other, but I'm just one rider with an overly curious mind. I understand why Liv appeals to so many women. It's just not for me.


----------



## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

Totally agree. I get it. I would be happy to try more bikes if they were available for me to demo. Kind of a bummer I'm not exposed to as many in that regard - would be nice to compare. Why is it Juliana doesn't offer any of their bikes in aluminum, since Roubion is based off of the Bronson frame - why not offer it in aluminum, too? Or maybe I missed something somewhere?


----------



## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

I have to say one of the best parts about the Juliana bikes is being able to just pick up the phone and talk with other women riders at the company about the products. I know that most of their bikes are just a different color (2017 Juliana Joplin is first to have different shock tuning, yeah!) but the girls at the shop are very helpful and knowledgable. 

On a side note, I do not think I can buy a LIV bike until they drop the LUST name. Just should never have done this on a women's bike.


----------



## ryetoast (Jan 24, 2016)

JillRide45 said:


> On a side note, I do not think I can buy a LIV bike until they drop the LUST name. Just should never have done this on a women's bike.


Looks like that model will be replaced as of 2017, along with the Intrigue and Tempt! Thank god--they might have been fine bikes, but I personally wouldn't be caught dead riding something that sounds like I bought it at Victoria's Secret! XD


----------



## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

ryetoast said:


> Looks like that model will be replaced as of 2017, along with the Intrigue and Tempt! Thank god--they might have been fine bikes, but I personally wouldn't be caught dead riding something that sounds like I bought it at Victoria's Secret! XD


Yeah, I have to agree with you on that one. It's as bad as Trek's Lush, lol.


----------



## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Deep Thought said:


> This is more of a general marketing discussion than a bike discussion, but then again, marketing is a huge influence in the women's bike market.


I agree with you. I found the side-by-side comparison fascinating. I wonder whether their marketing departments identified different target audiences, or if they just have different ideas on the best approach. The Juliana approach claims that their bike is capable enough for the rider and the trails she rides. The Liv copy was aimed at a less confident rider and promised to make all those unnerving trail features manageable. Two very different approaches to selling comparable bikes.


----------



## ryetoast (Jan 24, 2016)

petey15 said:


> Yeah, I have to agree with you on that one. It's as bad as Trek's Lush, lol.


I kind of like the Lush name. It suggests there might be a secret compartment in the frame for booze.

"New for 2017, the 160mm enduro Wino and DH sled Alky have been added to Trek's WSD lineup alongside the Lush...."


----------



## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

ryetoast said:


> I kind of like the Lush name. It suggests there might be a secret compartment in the frame for booze.
> 
> "New for 2017, the 160mm enduro Wino and DH sled Alky have been added to Trek's WSD lineup alongside the Lush...."


LOL, you're too much!


----------



## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

evasive said:


> I agree with you. I found the side-by-side comparison fascinating. I wonder whether their marketing departments identified different target audiences, or if they just have different ideas on the best approach. The Juliana approach claims that their bike is capable enough for the rider and the trails she rides. The Liv copy was aimed at a less confident rider and promised to make all those unnerving trail features manageable. Two very different approaches to selling comparable bikes.


And I want a good price comparison of the new Liv bikes. I'm not ready to put the $$ into a Juliana, but would like a capable bike.


----------



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

evasive said:


> I agree with you. I found the side-by-side comparison fascinating. I wonder whether their marketing departments identified different target audiences, or if they just have different ideas on the best approach. The Juliana approach claims that their bike is capable enough for the rider and the trails she rides. The Liv copy was aimed at a less confident rider and promised to make all those unnerving trail features manageable. Two very different approaches to selling comparable bikes.


They aren't pushing the Hail that way at all.


----------



## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

formica said:


> They aren't pushing the Hail that way at all.


Yeah, I didn't get that from reading their promo, either. The thing I like about Liv is that they seem to try to address a larger audience and also the demand for a more aggressive bike.


----------



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

> BUILT TO COME ALIVE AT HIGH SPEEDS FOR THE UNCOMPROMISING TRAIL RIDER
> 
> With 160 mm of perfectly tuned suspension and unmatched traction and control, the Hail Advanced will allow you to go faster than you thought possible. Predictably drift through corners and hold your line with confidence in speed-sucking rock gardens. Take advantage of the super lightweight frame design with mind-blowing power transfer, for extra climbing prowess while ascending to the top of your favorite runs. Hail Advanced is meticulously crafted to offer the highest-performing componentry, geometry and tuning available. The 27.5-inch wheel size ensures that bike handling is still nimble and playful - perfect for aggressive trail riding, bike park runs and enduro racing.


grumble, can't find the info on the Pique SX (composite frame, 140 mm) anywhere.


----------



## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Does anyone have an idea which Giant men's bikes these compare to? That could help us get an idea of components and pricing.


----------



## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

Muirenn said:


> Does anyone have an idea which Giant men's bikes these compare to? That could help us get an idea of components and pricing.


So, I'm thinking the Hail is supposed to be closely related to the Reign, perhaps? Hence the name (I'm guessing here, but both with a "royal" reference). It'll be interesting to see in regards to the geometry - if they'd ever get around to posting that information, grrrr. Pique (SX?) more closely related to the Trance - maybe? I'm not sure. Almost seems like with the travel like it's a mix between the Anthem and the Trance...


----------



## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

petey15 said:


> So, I'm thinking the Hail is supposed to be closely related to the Reign, perhaps? Hence the name (I'm guessing here, but both with a "royal" reference). It'll be interesting to see in regards to the geometry - if they'd ever get around to posting that information, grrrr. Pique (SX?) more closely related to the Trance - maybe? I'm not sure. Almost seems like with the travel like it's a mix between the Anthem and the Trance...


Can anyone tell which Fox fork this is? That would indicate the overall component package. https://www.liv-cycling.com/global/showcase/embolden I really don't want carbon. But I do want it to be a very good bike.


----------



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Muirenn said:


> Does anyone have an idea which Giant men's bikes these compare to? That could help us get an idea of components and pricing.


I think part of the point of Liv is that there ISN'T a direct correlation to the men's models. My understanding is that they are designed from the ground up, not a modified for women Trance or Reign. But yah, they haven't released a lot of info yet. My LBS is building up a Hail as we speak.


----------



## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

formica said:


> I think part of the point of Liv is that there ISN'T a direct correlation to the men's models. My understanding is that they are designed from the ground up, not a modified for women Trance or Reign. But yah, they haven't released a lot of info yet. My LBS is building up a Hail as we speak.


Perhaps not a direct correlation...but perhaps with a similar equivalent? Meaning, the "men" have a 6" travel bike, it's the Reign, and here's the women's equivalent? Not the same frame, etc...but if a Reign is too big for you, you may want to check out the Hail?

Which Hail is your LBS building? I'm anxious to see more pics of the aluminum versions. I'm probably going to get a lot of flack, but I actually dig the dark pink/teal/purple stuff.


----------



## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

petey15 said:


> Perhaps not a direct correlation...but perhaps with a similar equivalent? Meaning, the "men" have a 6" travel bike, it's the Reign, and here's the women's equivalent? Not the same frame, etc...but if a Reign is too big for you, you may want to check out the Hail?
> 
> Which Hail is your LBS building? I'm anxious to see more pics of the aluminum versions. I'm probably going to get a lot of flack, but I actually dig the dark pink/teal/purple stuff.


I like the teal and red, in that bike. As long as it is not baby pink and white, I can handle a little hot pink.  Also want the aluminum, as long as it's good aluminum (see signature, I like a lot of different materials. Currently have high quality carbon, 853 steel, CAAD aluminum (I forget the alloy mix), and ordinary chromoly.


----------



## MTBR_Saris (Apr 26, 2016)

I called Liv and spoke with the Marketing Manager after they announced the new models to ask for the geometry chart. They weren't ready at the time, but they did let slip that the Hail will have a 66 degree HA. IIRC, that's one degree steeper than the Reign. The Hail also has a slightly steeper seat tube then its male counterpart. 

I put together some interview questions for them regarding the new bikes, but haven't gotten around to submitting. Sounds like there's a ton of interest, so I'll work on it later today.


----------



## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

formica said:


> I think part of the point of Liv is that there ISN'T a direct correlation to the men's models. My understanding is that they are designed from the ground up, not a modified for women Trance or Reign. But yah, they haven't released a lot of info yet. My LBS is building up a Hail as we speak.


Aren't LIV bikes designed around the exact same suspension layout as Giant, just with different geometry?


----------



## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

Deep Thought said:


> Aren't LIV bikes designed around the exact same suspension layout as Giant, just with different geometry?


That's my understanding, and a different shock tune and touch points.


----------



## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

MTBR_Saris said:


> I called Liv and spoke with the Marketing Manager after they announced the new models to ask for the geometry chart. They weren't ready at the time, but they did let slip that the Hail will have a 66 degree HA. IIRC, that's one degree steeper than the Reign. The Hail also has a slightly steeper seat tube then its male counterpart.


That geometry is what I'd request, given the choice. Looks promising. Now, if the seat tubes happen to be a little longer than usual for these types of bikes; probably too much to ask for, as that is not the trend. But I'm hopeful. Have a serious problem with excessive seat post length in newer mountainbike models. Older school geometry have higher seattubes, but the rest isn't quite right.


----------

