# Trying to lose weight..input appreciated.



## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

Hey folks! I posted here not because I race enduro, but because it describes the way I ride and I thought I might identify with you guys the best. Ok, well, I have done one enduro race. Anyway, I've been mountain biking for a very long time, competing in XC, DH, Dual Slalom, and yes, one enduro race. Competition isn't really a priority for me anymore -- but the one thing I've always battled is my weight.

I am a fairly big guy; 5' 10", 205 pounds (currently). I have huge arms, legs, and shoulders. If I even look at a dumbbell, I gain muscle, lol. But I also have a significant layer of fat that only serves to slow me down and is taking its toll on my knees and feet (two knee surgeries in the last 4 years, plantar fasciitis, etc.). I teach during the 9 months of winter we have in Montana (okay, it's not quite that extreme, but some years are damn close to that). Last March my weight had climbed up to 220 pounds, which was an all-time high for me. 

It's normal for me to gain 10-15 pounds from summer to winter, but last winter was ridiculous. And I have not been able to lose it all this summer, despite RIDING MY ASS OFF. I ride 5-6 days a week, and NONE of my local trails are what could be considered "easy" cardio-wise. The trail I ride most often (twice a week or more) is literally in my backyard and features about 1800 feet of climbing in 3 miles. I normally do the climb in less than 40 minutes and this is on a 36 pound FR bike. My friend, who regularly wins enduro races in the pro division says that my time on that trail is fairly fast. I do regularly pass people on the climb (people who often "look" more fit than me, in fact). Anyway, the point of that is to say that I am in very good cardio condition, yet the weight refuses to come off.

I'd like to get my weight down to about 190 pounds. Any more than that and I might have to lose some muscle. One thing I learned in my years of racing XC is that if it ain't propelling you up the hill, it's wasted weight. I quit that discipline as I got tired of beating everyone on all of the downhills and still placing near the end of the pack -- despite being in very good cardio condition. I had the body of a bear when what I needed was the body of an antelope.

Anyway, I'll try not to make this too much longer, but please bear with me. I figure this is also a concern to you enduro racers. I just wonder if there is something in my riding that could change to help burn more calories? As I mentioned earlier, I do that ride by my house 2-3 times a week, which is about a 40 minute climb with a 6 minute downhill. The other rides I do are anywhere from 1:15 - 1:45 climbs. Once a week I try to do something longer -- and I've done a handful of 30-35 mile loops with 3K+ elevation gains this summer. ***I rarely stop to rest, forgot to mention that. If it's a shorter ride, I hammer for 40 min. to an hour and only stop to readjust the bike for the downhill.

As for my diet -- my wife does most of the cooking and does so with very little fat and/or processed foods. We eat a lot of salads and mostly chicken for meat. Grandma next door (lol) provides a lot of fresh garden vegetables. I limit myself to about 3 beers per week and sometimes none. I hardly ever drink a soda.

In conclusion, thanks for reading this, and I'd appreciate any comments or questions you might have. I have tried starving myself, but that just doesn't work, lol. But it's starting to look like the only thing that will work....


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## djska (Jan 30, 2005)

As contradictory as it may seem: strength training. That'll burn more calories afterwards than you'll burn during cardio.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

Thank you! That's what I needed to hear. I do a little bit of that on my own, but I could do a lot more. I also run a small landscape business in which I do all of the work myself, and some of the work I do is pretty strenuous. However, that season is over now as I will begin teaching again next week.

Come to think of it, the best shape (leanest) I've ever been in my life was during high-school wrestling. We worked every muscle in our bodies HARD and did insane cardio workouts. It didn't take long to reach 2% body fat, lol. Though that was 18 years ago....


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

2% body fat is basically nearly impossible, unrealistic and unhealthy. cut out carbs and sugar, do the starting strength workout, drink only water and do as much cardio as possible. i guarantee if you track your calories youre getting alot more than you think you are


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

^^I'm not saying it was the healthiest choice. I wrestled in the 152 pound division and was the same height as I am now. I had to practically starve just to make weight for competitions, and was back up to 160 by the end of a Monday following a tournament weekend. But my body was bulletproof!

I don't need to get to that point again. 190 pounds would be ideal since I've grown a lot more muscle over the years anyway. The problem with lifting for me is that I gain muscle like you wouldn't believe. It only takes one workout and I can see a difference in the mirror. I don't want to bulk up anymore, I just want to get stronger/have more muscle with which to burn more calories. I just want to lean-down and riding and eating well alone has not been enough.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

I forgot to ask, what kind of a strength training program do you guys recommend? I don't wish to join a gym at this time, so it would be nice to do a routine at home using freeweights, pushups, etc.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

Eat 4-5 small meals a day, keep your body processing food. Change up your exercise routines, your body adapts and conserves.


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## djska (Jan 30, 2005)

www.bikejames.com


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

What works for me is a clean high protein diet eating lots of fibrous colorful veggies/fruit, protein and drinking lots of water. I aim for 200/300 grams of protein a day. 

It does 3 things for me:
1) Helps control/tame my hunger. If I eat simple/processed carbs I just get hungrier (simple/processed carbs does this and it is a vicious cycle).
2) Legs/muscles recover much quicker and I am less sore.
3) Speeds up my metabolism.
I am a fairly large guy also at 6' 210lbs and making a push here to get to 195lbs by the end of the year and just cleaned up my diet 2 weeks ago. I try to keep my diet as simple and easy as possible eating mostly the same thing every day.

Breakfast:
Whole wheat egg white breakfast sandwich
60gram whey protein shake
Apple

Lunch:
1/2 lbs steamed broccoli
60gram whey protein shake

3 PM Snack:
60gram whey protein shake
banana (sometimes)

Dinner (What wife normally makes):
Fish or Chicken
Big serving veggies
Small serving of carbs (rice/whole wheat pasta ect..)

Before Bed:
40gram Whey protein shake (sometimes)


As for riding/working, I find very easy long rides mixed in with super hard/all out shorter rides a good way to burn fat and get faster.


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## El Train (Apr 21, 2007)

same issues here for years, at roughly the same body size. Quit drinking 2+ years ago, lost a few lbs. This spring, quit meat of all kinds, and dairy. The dairy really did it and I lost almost 20 lbs this year. I was surprised because I didn't think I ate that much dairy but I was hammering cheese and sour cream apparently. I am having a protein deficit of sorts but it is the only way to get rid of years of weightlifting muscle mass. I am down to 182 from a high of 217 three years ago and so much faster on the bike. Trying for 175 which is where I was at before 10 years of weightroom.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

^^^Well, I'd rather die than stop eating meat. (Actually, though, I'm serious).
I don't eat a lot of fatty meat though. Mostly chicken and lean steaks and the leanest burger we can get. I suspect that most of my problem is an abundance of carbs -- which I have tried to reduce.

The muscle mass thing isn't really from me lifting weights all the time. I mean, I have lifted weights over the years, but not to the degree that some people do. Last winter I joined a climbing gym and spent about 45 minutes climbing (mostly bouldering) and 20 minutes on an exercise bike + 15 minutes of working the major muscle groups (no rest in between activities). I put on muscle at an unreal rate. The first day I bench-pressed I did three sets of 10 @ 165 pounds. Three days later I needed 180 pounds to feel as tired. My forearms grew HUGE from the climbing. It's great to be strong, but you don't need to be *that* strong to ride a bike fast.

Anyway, my primary goal is to lose fat, not muscle. I figure I have about 15 pounds of fat that I could lose and still be pretty healthy.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2014)

What works as my metabolism gets progressively slower is fewer Carbs/Sugars and longer/less-intense rides. When I ride fast for more than 20 minutes or so (like the 1:20 ride to work) I tend to be hungry all day and seemingly unable to loose weight. Slowing my workout to the point where my heart rate stays below 65% MHR seems to be the key to my weight loss. Nothing fancy, just what works. My biggest issue traditionally is eating carbs at breakfast.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

Easiest for me is eliminate all processed foods, foods containing white flour and soda. Eat raw food if you can (veggies, nuts) and lean meat and fish. Sprouted bread is good used for sandwiches, fills you up. I keep almonds at hand for snacks. You don't want to starve yourself but to lose weight you need to lose calories consumed in a day or burn more calories by riding more. 

Sounds like you already eat healthy, but maybe add some walking and/or easy runs in and keep that metabolism going. Also, fill up all water bottles and throw some extra tools or rocks into your hydration pack a la Tinker Juarez style if you are limited on the 4-5 hour rides.


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## jnails (Jun 1, 2009)

Trust me, I've learned the hard way that you can ride your ass off but 80% of it(maybe more) is what you put in your mouth. You definitely want to eat well (like you said, no processed junk). Lean meats, veggies, fruits, and try and cut out simple sugar carbs. Don't eat after 7pm and fast every night for at least 12 hours if not more. I also use the my plate software that is free to use on the Livestrong website. You put in everything you eat and what exercise you have done and it spits out how many calories you are over or under your targeted intake per day. It may sound sucky, but if your serious about losing weight you HAVE to count calories. It comes down to simple math really. Eat 500 less then you burn in a day, and do this everyday and you will lose a pound every week. You would be surprised if you don't count your calories how quickly things add up. You should also be going to bed just slightly hungry - not famished, but a little bit uncomfortable. If you feel fully satisfied then you probably ate to much. Biggest meal should be breakfast and the meals should get smaller as the day goes on. 

Another thing that may help you is to get up first thing in the morning and do an easy ride before you eat anything. This can be short - like 30 minutes. Shouldn't interfere with any workouts you have planned the rest of the day and it helps boost your metabolism. As someone else said, strength training is good - the more muscle you have the more calories your body burns. It just really comes down to counting calories. Good luck - I'm in the same boat right now, trying to go from 203 to 189 by the start of Winter Short Track Racing in December. Hungry as I write this and been counting calories(and losing weight) for 2 months now.


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## Thaumaturge (Feb 25, 2006)

If you're worried about packing on too much muscle, body weight resistance training might be a good way to go.

I've been having good success with a modified version of this:
Beginner Body Weight Workout - Build Muscle, Burn Fat | Nerd Fitness
I've added some exercises that match my goals (e.g., boxer ball crunches and Romanian deadlifts), but that has formed the basis of my routine for the last six months. Between that, riding, and nearly completely cutting out beverages with calories (as you've already done), I finally need a smaller belt  I'm definitely stronger, but not like I would be if I were doing a real weight training regimen.


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## FireLikeIYA (Mar 15, 2009)

In2falling said:


> What works for me is a clean high protein diet eating lots of fibrous colorful veggies/fruit, protein and drinking lots of water. I aim for 200/300 grams of protein a day. ...
> 
> ...


I thought your body could only process up to 25g of protein at a time... anything above that is wasted.

Believe it or not, Weight Watchers is a good starting point to help you lose weight. It's an established program with no guess work. I wont say it is ideal but it will get you started. You don't even have to join the program. Download the free app WWDiary and go from there. It is fairly self explanatory. Also, look for meal plans posted online. The ones to look for have 3 meals and 3 snacks so that you are eating 6 times a day. If you have ever done P90X they also have put together a great meal plan. The P90X meal plan requires a lot of creative substitution due to the cost and time involved preparing your meals.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

I need to get on this as well. 

I ride about 4 times per week. 3 weekday rides of about 15miles each (high intensity) and a weekend ride of at least 20+miles. I play soccer 1-2x per week for several hours at a time and I do a body weight strength training routine (push ups, pull ups, sit ups, squats etc.) 3x per week in the morning. I'd say I'm in pretty decent shape both cardio and strength wise. I can run 5miles at a sub 7:30 pace on hilly terrain (not earth shattering I know but not bad either) and I'm one of the quicker riders around my local trail systems. 

Despite all this at 5'11" I always hover just below the 200lb mark. I'm build pretty solid all around. Large chest, big legs etc. Don't have a much of a gut but I'm still not too lean anywhere. I wear size 33 pants but have a hard time finding stuff that isn't super tight on my legs. 

I just have a hard time getting my diet right. I think I do ok for breakfast and lunch but I have a hard time making dinners that fill me up. (I'm ravenous after hard MTB rides). I usually end up not making things that are filling enough and snacking too much after dinner. I've done the obvious stuff, no fast food, no soda/gatorade, no white flour. 

With my work and exercise I'm not home until at least 8:30-9:00 which doesn't leave much time for cooking a good dinner. Anyone know of quick and easy dinners I can do? Sub 20 minutes of prep time would be ideal and it would be even better if I could prepare something that I could cook and reheat over 2 or 3 days.

I'm healthy at my current weight but it'd be nice to drop to around 180-185 or so. I don't think I could drop a whole lot more than that with my body type. It would certainly help on some of the longer races I do and I know I'd feel a lot better. 

Please excuse my rambling, this post got way longer and (whinier) than I wanted it to be!


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## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

rusty904 said:


> I ride about 4 times per week. 3 weekday rides of about 15miles each (high intensity) and a weekend ride of at least 20+miles. I play soccer 1-2x per week for several hours at a time and I do a body weight strength training routine (push ups, pull ups, sit ups, squats etc.) 3x per week in the morning. I'd say I'm in pretty decent shape both cardio and strength wise. I can run 5miles at a sub 7:30 pace on hilly terrain (not earth shattering I know but not bad either) and I'm one of the quicker riders around my local trail systems.
> 
> Despite all this at 5'11" I always hover just below the 200lb mark. I'm build pretty solid all around. Large chest, big legs etc. Don't have a much of a gut but I'm still not too lean anywhere. I wear size 33 pants but have a hard time finding stuff that isn't super tight on my legs.


Go vegan. That should solve things. Have you done one of those fat-caliper tests to see how much you have as a body %? It could be that you have a lot of muscle mass too. That's not a bad thing. I'd trade my fat for some muscle any day!


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## Rippin Lipz (Jul 12, 2012)

rusty904 said:


> I need to get on this as well.
> 
> I ride about 4 times per week. 3 weekday rides of about 15miles each (high intensity) and a weekend ride of at least 20+miles. I play soccer 1-2x per week for several hours at a time and I do a body weight strength training routine (push ups, pull ups, sit ups, squats etc.) 3x per week in the morning. I'd say I'm in pretty decent shape both cardio and strength wise. I can run 5miles at a sub 7:30 pace on hilly terrain (not earth shattering I know but not bad either) and I'm one of the quicker riders around my local trail systems.
> 
> ...


stupideasypaleo.com


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Count calories and maintain a calorie deficit. Like obs08 mentioned, I'm guessing your intake is higher than you realize even if it is from healthy eating. Determine a calorie budget and don't exceed it. I used the phone app/website Lose It! which makes it really easy to determine your daily calorie budget and estimate calories in a meal from its huge database. You can also setup custom meals/foods. Count EVERYTHING you eat and drink, to do otherwise is short circuiting how it works. Eating counts as calorie input, exercise counts as calorie output (the app tracks all of this), and monitor everything with respect to your budget. The Lose It app has a barcode scanner, so it is easy to get calorie per serving info from anything that comes in a package with UPC barcode. Don't try and overachieve by going way below your calorie budget or setting an unrealistically low budget because that doesn't exactly work either. Your body compensates and will mess up your metabolism and energy levels.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

ewarnerusa said:


> Count calories and maintain a calorie deficit. Like obs08 mentioned, I'm guessing your intake is higher than you realize even if it is from healthy eating. Determine a calorie budget and don't exceed it. I used the phone app/website Lose It! which makes it really easy to determine your daily calorie budget and estimate calories in a meal from its huge database. You can also setup custom meals/foods. Count EVERYTHING you eat and drink, to do otherwise is short circuiting how it works. Eating counts as calorie input, exercise counts as calorie output (the app tracks all of this), and monitor everything with respect to your budget. The Lose It app has a barcode scanner, so it is easy to get calorie per serving info from anything that comes in a package with UPC barcode. Don't try and overachieve by going way below your calorie budget or setting an unrealistically low budget because that doesn't exactly work either. Your body compensates and will mess up your metabolism and energy levels.


Started using that app on Monday. It's pretty cool. It set a 1758 calorie budget for me with the goal of losing 2lbs per week. So far I haven't had much trouble staying well under budget (maybe too much under?) with my high exercise output. Having to input everything into the app really guilts you into avoiding mindless snacking.

I have a long race in the beginning of November and I'm trying to drop 8-10lbs before then. I weighed 196lbs this morning which is already a couple pounds down from last week. Ultimately I think I'd be pretty happy in the 180-185lb range any less than that and I think I'd lose a lot of muscle mass. As much as it would help my riding to be a slender XC featherweight it's just never going to happen with my build.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Yes, that app is great for tracking what you are really doing and allows you to start paying attention to what is really going in. Once you see what is contributing to your calorie intake, you start to make better decisions on what you are eating in addition to how much. It also motivates you to add little additional exercises throughout a day in order to subtract from your budget.

I have found that when first beginning to work with a budget, it is easy to stay well below and you start to see good results (weight loss) immediately. But the ease and results begin to taper off quickly. If things are working out then don't change anything. But the 2 lb/wk rate is pretty aggressive and I would say directed at overweight people rather than active/athletic people. Do a google search of "basal metabolic rate" for some background on the minimum number of calories your body needs. Even the lose it forums from the website describe it pretty well. 
http://forums.loseit.com/posts/list/18950.page
I am by no means an expert and I only know what I've read about, but I have been tinkering with this app for a few years now. I think a healthier calorie budget for an active person is more like 1 lb/wk loss. Try to always consume at least as much food as your budget prescribes and use exercise to bring your net calorie value down.


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## rusty904 (Apr 25, 2008)

ewarnerusa said:


> Yes, that app is great for tracking what you are really doing and allows you to start paying attention to what is really going in. Once you see what is contributing to your calorie intake, you start to make better decisions on what you are eating in addition to how much. It also motivates you to add little additional exercises throughout a day in order to subtract from your budget.
> 
> I have found that when first beginning to work with a budget, it is easy to stay well below and you start to see good results (weight loss) immediately. But the ease and results begin to taper off quickly. If things are working out then don't change anything. But the 2 lb/wk rate is pretty aggressive and I would say directed at overweight people rather than active/athletic people. Do a google search of "basal metabolic rate" for some background on the minimum number of calories your body needs. Even the lose it forums from the website describe it pretty well.
> http://forums.loseit.com/posts/list/18950.page
> I am by no means an expert and I only know what I've read about, but I have been tinkering with this app for a few years now. I think a healthier calorie budget for an active person is more like 1 lb/wk loss. Try to always consume at least as much food as your budget prescribes and use exercise to bring your net calorie value down.


Yeah, I'm well below budget but I'm mostly going off my levels of hunger. I have a hard time going to bed on an empty stomach and that hasn't really been a problem. If my energy level on the bike is affected I'll up the calories a bit more. So far I feel fine riding but it's only been a few days. Have a longer ride planned tonight so I'll have to see how I feel.

Like I said, I think most of what the app has done is caused me to cut down on snacking/beer which didn't do much to keep me full/energized anyway. My meals have remained pretty much the same.

I'll take a look at the forums and see if I need to alter anything. I think for now, the 2lbs a week is ok for me.


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## Calhoun (Nov 11, 2008)

rusty904 said:


> With my work and exercise I'm not home until at least 8:30-9:00 which doesn't leave much time for cooking a good dinner. Anyone know of quick and easy dinners I can do? Sub 20 minutes of prep time would be ideal and it would be even better if I could prepare something that I could cook and reheat over 2 or 3 days.


look into getting a crockpot with a timer, stupid easy.


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## termhn (Oct 11, 2014)

I see a lot of people in this thread with a very low/strict calorie count and a very high loss goal per week... You may take weight off fast but you WILL go RIGHT BACK UP when you start going back on a normal diet. If your goal is to loose 15-20 lbs permanently and not have to stay on a "race" diet for the rest of your life then do it slowly. Get your metabolism up... Like a couple have said it might even be good to eat more (but healthy) to get your body used to digesting things quickly and not storing it away in fat to use when you're starving. If you starve yourself then your body is going to drop its metabolism to compensate... Which is smart for your body but the opposite of what you want. 

1 lb per week is on the very very high end of the healthy, long term weight loss scale and I see several people in this thread with expectations of 2 lb + per week. It's possible to do that and loose weight fast but 99.9% of the time you'll put it right back on... I would go for a 0.5 lb - 1 lb per week goal. You'll slowly get your metabolism up and start to actually improve your health/weight rather than just force your body to eat itself by starving.


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## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

A good ride can burn 3,500 calories. So then if I do not replenish, lets say I eat only 1,000 calories extra that day, what happens?


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/20...ampaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=2040
That story is interesting. Using the Lose It app has helped me make these same comparisons and realizations about the "penalties" of eating certain calorie dense foods. At first, calorie content is just a number for the budget, but after logging for a while I began to realize which foods really contribute the most and I would begin to avoid them. Same with which exercises burn more calories per time. Running sucks, but it sure is a good workout...


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

TracksFromHell said:


> A good ride can burn 3,500 calories. So then if I do not replenish, lets say I eat only 1,000 calories extra that day, what happens?


You run a healthy calorie deficit, which is the goal. Provided you also ate your normal minimum calorie requirements as well. I have read somewhere a rule of thumb about how many calories to add to your minimum basal value to account for exercise, but I forget what that is. I think your ~1/3 estimate sounds reasonable though.


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## chyu89 (Sep 26, 2009)

Manage your food wisely. Drink only plain water during rides. not energy nor sodium drinks.


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## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

chyu89 said:


> Manage your food wisely. Drink only plain water during rides. not energy nor sodium drinks.


Well ... I have started mixing my Gatorade at 1/2 strength. I like the flavour and the weak formula seems to actually do a better job at quenching my thirst.


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## enduromtbtrainer (Mar 1, 2014)

cookieMonster said:


> I forgot to ask, what kind of a strength training program do you guys recommend? I don't wish to join a gym at this time, so it would be nice to do a routine at home using freeweights, pushups, etc.


www.enduromtbtraining.com- we can help you with your desire to lose weight and train to be the best mtb'er you can be.
In the end, these posts have some good advice, but ultimately you need what is best for YOU. We do that. Personalized solutions.


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## gsa103 (Sep 1, 2014)

TracksFromHell said:


> A good ride can burn 3,500 calories. So then if I do not replenish, lets say I eat only 1,000 calories extra that day, what happens?


How are you measuring calories?

700+ calories/hr is a very tall order for most people. 3500 calories is a VERY strenuous 4 hr ride. You'd need to be generating ~250W SUSTAINED for 4 hrs to burn 3500 calories. That's TdF level effort. Just How Good Are These Guys? | CyclingTips

Most of those guys are lighter, but that's still a good amount of power. To get an accurate calorie estimate you really need a good HRM or power meter (or both).

To get at the point about hard efforts not really burning fat. A hard effort uses glycogen in your bloodstream to directly burn sugar. At high effort levels, your body can't burn fat fast enough, so it just burns sugar. You feel wiped out and hungry because you've exhausted your blood sugar, but you haven't actually burned any fat. Longer sustained efforts will burn fat for energy but you really need 2+ hrs for a good effort.


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## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

gsa103 said:


> How are you measuring calories?
> 
> 700+ calories/hr is a very tall order for most people. 3500 calories is a VERY strenuous 4 hr ride. You'd need to be generating ~250W SUSTAINED for 4 hrs to burn 3500 calories. That's TdF level effort. Just How Good Are These Guys? | CyclingTips
> 
> ...


Most of those guys are *a lot* lighter. I'm ~200 lbs. Was 210 in June. Now 190 

I use a heart rate monitor. Also it is on our local mountain hills which are very up/down. My strong rides avg 148 bpm for the ride duration of 3hr to 5hr - incl breaks. It's getting lower now since it is a lot cooler outside and I feel a lot fitter.

A long ride is typical 3,800 feet elev gain/loss and 13 miles - mostly black rated all-mountain trails. I think my typical now for any good ride is 800 cals/hour.

Every ride starts with a 700 foot hill climb, just to get to the mountain access road at the bottom of trails. Then it eases up a bit but easily another thousand foot climb to access our favourite trails -- which we lap a few times for good measure.

There is no way I am as fit as some of the locals here. Some guys/gals, they fly up the hills ... and fly down, effortlessly it seems. They easily overtake us on the uptrack -- sometimes making us all wonder what they pack for lunch. Some of them wear spandex, we just wear baggies 

_"700+ calories/hr is a very tall order for most people."

_I never knew that.

All I know is ... I'm wiped afterwards. Perhaps my calorie calculations are off, but it looks right, and 800 calories per hour is easily achievable. Heck, I can do 800 calories in 45 minutes in a moderate-to-intense cycle session at the gym.

According to LiveStrong, a 145 lb woman can burn 550 calories per hour doing moderate mountain biking. See Calories Burned While Mountain Biking | LIVESTRONG.COM

Who knows, perhaps the calculations are off - I am just relying on my HRM and weight to calculate it automatically for me.

... We *always* go out for a humongous veggie burger and beers afterwards


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## gsa103 (Sep 1, 2014)

TracksFromHell said:


> Most of those guys are *a lot* lighter. I'm ~200 lbs. Was 210 in June. Now 190
> 
> I use a heart rate monitor.
> 
> ...


After that sort of workout you should feel wiped out!

I use a HRM on my road rides, and its usually dead on with other estimates. My benchmark ride is ~3500 ft at a 6% grade for 11 mi (road), so there's no concern for aero drag, rolling resistance, etc.

My concern was mainly that a lot of the online estimators (Strava, etc) can be WAY off depending on actual conditions. My commute is 11 mi flat, and its ~350 cal via HRM, and ~600 cal if I don't use the HRM, which is a HUGE discrepancy. There's plenty of road riders who eat if that had a 2000 calorie ride, but actually burned more like 1200, and wonder why they don't lose weight.

Using an HRM is probably the best way to get consistent calorie burn data, which sounds like you're doing.


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## termhn (Oct 11, 2014)

Power meter too - those allow you to burn similar/same calories every time because it measures the actual effort you're putting out - but those are expensive as balls, lol!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

I don't ride like that all the time mind you. That was an extreme example to make me look fit and very hard core  Most rides now are 2.5 hrs and probably 2,500 cals. Still doing almost 800 an hour though. 

Too bad it's rainy season now. I'm dreading putting the pounds back on and to make it worse ... I hate gyms. 

For the record: I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. I hate gyms. 

Something like that 

I don't care how cold it gets, I'm gonna ride as long as it's not icy or raining/muddy


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Reading this from an airport bar in KC... Just polished off 6 smoked wings and 2, 22oz beers... My wife bought me a smoker for my bday... that's not helping with my waist line. (Smoking ribs and wings this weekend... and probably gonna drink a crapload of Coors Banquet in the process). In addition, work travel has been killing me. I have gained 12-15 lbs since June!

Just downloaded the Lose It app. My diet is my problem. I'm generally active enough (or way more so than my friends) that I shouldn't be pushing 200lbs on my 5'10" frame.

I used to enjoy running. Then I got back into MTB'ing. Now I HATE running. I need to find a way to get my ass out of bed at 5AM and go take the dog for a 1hr MTB ride before work.


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## Justin MD (Sep 30, 2013)

Couple things. I am 5'10" and my body likes 205. I am all chest. 48" of it. My waist is not small and I too am happy at about 185. I actually gain weight in the summer because it's so damn hot I refuse to workout.

But in the past when I hit my low of the typical 185 I wanted more gone. So I picked up (don't laugh) P90X and did the 90 day thing except I didn't do much of the cardio stuff or the yoga. I went on rides and runs instead. No change in diet. I actually added proteins and greens. Got down to 175. Felt indestructible. Then I had kids...

Gotta switch it up. Lifting weight that burns at 10reps and adding running is all it took. On my rides my avg HR is 140 or so. On a 5k my Avg HR is like 170.

Even if you're a Strava hater use it to PR your climbs. Make your legs turn into rubber. When you climb into bed at night and your legs are on fire... Yep that's when I know I'm dropping.


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## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

Less dairy. Brown rice. More fish. Cut back on energy drinks during rides. More sex.

But just hearing about those Smoked Wings threw me off for a sec. Must keep focussed


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## guitarjohn21 (Jan 16, 2012)

I recently got out of the hospital after 3 weeks and 4 surgeries due to a broken leg and gained about 15 lbs lying there eating mostly hospital food and having the longest break from riding in 5 years.
Now that I was home and slowly getting back on my regular diet, I was still gaining weight due to no riding and limited exercise until I am fully healed. 
While I was in the hospital, I bought a NutriBullet after seeing the ads on TV for years, but when I got home I couldn't stomach the raw foods after so many weeks on the pain meds and the horrible food I was consuming there.
A couple weeks ago, I tried using the thing again and sort of followed a recipe I saw on their commercial. It worked, I could drink it without any issues and actually really liked it. The drink consisted of Blueberries and blackberries, 1/2 a banana, handful of red grapes, spinach, purple kale, and some walnuts almonds and cashews with some water. 
I now make one every morning and one in the evening before dinner about half the time, and the weight is dropping off like I have never seen before. I am still in a wheelchair at home and on crutches when I am out, so there is nothing in the form of exercise like I am used to when I was able to ride 4-5 times a week. I bought the thing to get concentrated nutrients in my diet to help heal quickly, but the weight shaving is an added bonus. I have been juicing for years, but this is entirely different and has other benefits I never knew before.
I have since added flax, chia, pepitas, cranberries and a few other things to the morning drink and really feel the difference. I am amazed like I was when I discovered juicing years ago.
I just thought I'd share my discovery and hope it helps out.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

I've been using the LoseIt app that was mentioned here. My diet was: horrible.

I've also started doing this in the AM before work. All body weight, do it in the basement.

30 Days of HIIT


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## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

guitarjohn21 said:


> I recently got out of the hospital after 3 weeks and 4 surgeries due to a broken leg and gained about 15 lbs lying there eating mostly hospital food and having the longest break from riding in 5 years.
> Now that I was home and slowly getting back on my regular diet, I was still gaining weight due to no riding and limited exercise until I am fully healed.
> While I was in the hospital, I bought a NutriBullet after seeing the ads on TV for years, but when I got home I couldn't stomach the raw foods after so many weeks on the pain meds and the horrible food I was consuming there.
> A couple weeks ago, I tried using the thing again and sort of followed a recipe I saw on their commercial. It worked, I could drink it without any issues and actually really liked it. The drink consisted of Blueberries and blackberries, 1/2 a banana, handful of red grapes, spinach, purple kale, and some walnuts almonds and cashews with some water.
> ...


Sounds great ! You are taking control of your health. Wishing you all the best in your recovery.

Today I treated myself to a super food with veritable multivitamin qualities ...

Liver and onions


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## Thatshowiroll (Jan 30, 2009)

guitarjohn21 said:


> I recently got out of the hospital after 3 weeks and 4 surgeries due to a broken leg and gained about 15 lbs lying there eating mostly hospital food and having the longest break from riding in 5 years.
> Now that I was home and slowly getting back on my regular diet, I was still gaining weight due to no riding and limited exercise until I am fully healed.
> While I was in the hospital, I bought a NutriBullet after seeing the ads on TV for years, but when I got home I couldn't stomach the raw foods after so many weeks on the pain meds and the horrible food I was consuming there.
> A couple weeks ago, I tried using the thing again and sort of followed a recipe I saw on their commercial. It worked, I could drink it without any issues and actually really liked it. The drink consisted of Blueberries and blackberries, 1/2 a banana, handful of red grapes, spinach, purple kale, and some walnuts almonds and cashews with some water.
> ...


Are you using the smoothie as a meal replacement, or in addition to regular meals?


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## endy (Nov 11, 2014)

The trick (besides diet) is interval training of some type. Search google for HIIT training. It is lower impact on your body and provides greater fat burning metabolism results. Results are very quick and easy. Long time-frame endurance training, for example running for two hours to try to burn calories is a waste of time and often just increases appetite and calories in too much.

Workouts could also be done in the gym with weights. This works exceptionally well.. Build up a set of 5 exercises and instead of doing reps on each exercise and moving on you switch to the next exercise with only a moment to catch your breath. For example, unweighted squat facing wall, bench press, exercise #3, #4, #5 then repeat the whole sequence 2 more times. 

Another example for running which could be modified for bike... sprint hills and walk down repeatedly or run long end of soccer fields all out, walk goal ends. 

Fat will melt off you no joke. 

This is coming from a high-level rock climber and friend of ultra long distance runners so though new to biking I have experience trying to be lean. When I am not injured and heavy like now I am 5'11, 150 lbs, 39.5" chest, 30" waist. Thats with no real cardio, just very brief interval workouts in the gym a few times a week and rock climbing. Any time I start gaining weight more interval training melts the pounds right off.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

HIIT is very effective. I've done it in the past and have started doing it again. The link I posted above is a good intro.



06HokieMTB said:


> I've also started doing this in the AM before work. All body weight, do it in the basement.
> 
> 30 Days of HIIT


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

TracksFromHell said:


> Most of those guys are *a lot* lighter. I'm ~200 lbs. Was 210 in June. Now 190


And they are probably producing more power, and burning more calories than you.

The implication that you, by just being heavier, produce more power is simply wrong.


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## guitarjohn21 (Jan 16, 2012)

Thatshowiroll said:


> Are you using the smoothie as a meal replacement, or in addition to regular meals?


I'm having it before breakfast and sometimes dinner, but my the meals are a little smaller now because of it.


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## muddy_tires (Nov 21, 2014)

This is an old thread but I see a lot of things that don't help losing fat so I chime in.


"NONE of my local trails are what could be considered "easy" cardio-wise"

"I normally do the climb in less than 40 minutes and this is on a 36 pound FR bike" 

"2-3 times a week"

"I hammer for 40 min. to an hour"


All of those are bad for burning fat. Fat is hard to burn and can only be used as fuel at a slow steady rate. The amount of fat you burn is not that much different whether you ride your ass off for 40 min, or ride with a slow pace at which you can hold a short conversation without much difficulty for 40 minutes. Of course, you'll burn more "calories" from riding your ass off, but the difference comes from glucose stored in your liver, blood and muscle, and that can be replenished shortly after you eat.

In order to burn fat, you MUST NOT ride your ass off all the time, but need to ride slower and longer. You might already know that there is a threshold of heart rate called Anaerobic Threshold (AT) or Lactate Threshold (LT) and it's best you keep your heart rate a bit lower than this threshold but not too low. It's basically about the pace you can hold a short conversation without much difficulty. You want to ride at this pace, not above and not below, for more than 2 hours.

My AT/LT is around 140 (My max heart rate is quite low, around 180) and when I did this type of training, I set my heart rate monitor so it beeped below 100 and above 125. This is difficult. Slight uphill, my heart rate shoots up and easily go above 125, slight downhill, it drops instantly below 100. I had to be cautious not to pedal too hard on even a slightest uphill, and never to coast and pedal fast on a downhill and this is on a road bike on a flat road (300 ft over 30 miles). If your local trails are not easy, you'll probably blow this heart rate zone very easily. 

The length you can work out at or a little above AT/LT is said to be around 40 minutes. It is a good training to challenge this limit but you MUST NOT do this several times a week. If you do, your body will not have the time to recover and the next training will not be efficient. Generally, once a week is considered good. This is "almost throwing up" hard and you are probably close to, but not completely in, this intensity+duration most of the time.

So in a nutshell, you are working out way too hard for burning fat. You need to do a lot of LSD. No, not that LSD  but Long Slow Distance rides. Strictly keep moderately low heart rate for more than 2 hours several times a week, and really push it and ride your ass off for 40 minutes once a week. I broke my shoulder one time and was forced to ride only my road bike for 3 months and I stuck to this. I was pretty fit before that but I lost 10 lbs (5'7" 155 to 145) and my average speed went up by 2-3 mph in that period while eating whatever I wanted whenever I wanted, like a pound of New York strip as breakfast. It really works and while there is many variations and different studies, and I'm probably over simplifying things a bit, the basic concept seems to be pretty much the same in what most endurance athletes do.

Hope this helps.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

The Myth of the Fat-burning Zone | ACTIVE
The Fat Burning Zone Myth: Don't Be Fooled - BuiltLean


> The fat-burning zone. Yes, it exists, but it has been misinterpreted. The fat-burning zone is a concept that the body burns a greater amount of fat at lower-intensity aerobic exercise than it does at higher intensities. Actually, the body burns a greater percentage of fat at lower intensities than at higher intensities. At lower intensities the body may burn 50 percent of the calories from fat, while at higher intensities it may only burn 35 percent. But at higher intensities you burn way more total calories-and more fat calories overall-than you do at lower intensities.


I'm not claiming I know the answers, but I do recall this discussion before.


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## Dr.Zoidberg (Sep 9, 2007)

Portion control. I'm not talking about starving yourself but eat until your satisfied rather than full. No second helpings and keep your portions sizes small. But you can eat unlimited pure fruit and veggies (by pure I mean w/o dressing, or sugar like a "fruit smoothie"). Eat 6+ small meals throughout the day rather than 3 big ones. Drink lots of water throughout the day. Try to limit processed food intake to a small amount if you cant avoid not eating them. The first 4-6 weeks will be tough but after you'll find it a lot easier to have non-excessive portions. If it helps at first have a cheat night once a week. After a few months you the weight will come off and eventually you'll have to get a new wardrobe b/c everything will be too big.  I did/do the above and lost 20 lbs and have kept it off for 6 years while still weight lifting consistently during that time. Good luck and stay strong!
Sent from my Lumia 920 using Board Express


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## muddy_tires (Nov 21, 2014)

ewarnerusa said:


> The Myth of the Fat-burning Zone | ACTIVE
> The Fat Burning Zone Myth: Don't Be Fooled - BuiltLean
> 
> I'm not claiming I know the answers, but I do recall this discussion before.


The author is not saying endurance athletes should not do LSDs. That'd be crazy. Doing interval training is good. Or working out at LT for 40 min. once a week is good, or even necessary. It's just only doing that everyday is not good for burning fat or increasing endurance for that matter. Working out close to or over LT wears you out, and you don't burn as much fat when compared to burning the same amount of calories with a lower intensity, longer ride. Also, although I didn't check studies on this one, I feel lower intensity workouts don't make me as hungry even when I burn about the same amount of calories.

Edit: Actually, the second link has a chart that shows part of what I was saying. The difference of burnt fat between the low intensity group (50% Max heart rate. This is very light, like taking a fast walk) and the high intensity group (75% MHR. getting harder to talk kind of intensity) is not much. Only 17% or so. Difference in burnt glycogen (glucose) is huge at 325%. And decrease in blood glucose level makes you hungry. You can burn almost 3 times the fat with the same amount of burnt glucose if you work out at the lower intensity.


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## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

@muddytires, I looked into that recently and from what I read the calorie loss/replenishment is what is most important. So ... ride your bike at whatever intensity you choose, just make sure you don't over eat when refueling. The main jist of what your are saying is a myth I think.


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## muddy_tires (Nov 21, 2014)

TracksFromHell said:


> @muddytires, I looked into that recently and from what I read the calorie loss/replenishment is what is most important. So ... ride your bike at whatever intensity you choose, just make sure you don't over eat when refueling. The main jist of what your are saying is a myth I think.


Well, if you choose not to ride at all and make sure don't over eat, you'll still lose weight for sure. But there is no myth in what I wrote. It is a scientific fact that you burn more fat by longer lower intensity workouts, at a little below LT. It is a scientific fact you feel hungry when your blood glucose level lowers. And, as this is Enduro racing forum it is probably most important that no serious endurance athletes just work out at whatever intensity they chose. They mostly work out at lower intensity and only go full out once a week or so. (They do peaking and use more sophisticated plans over months or a year but basic idea is still something like this.) Going full out several times a week for 40 min is definitely not how endurance racers, or any serious racers, train. 40 min work outs may be good for shorter races like a 400 m sprint, but even then you probably should alternate easy endurance days and high intensity/interval training days.

Now, enough of me ranting hehe. I'll go riding.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

ewarnerusa said:


> The Myth of the Fat-burning Zone | ACTIVE
> The Fat Burning Zone Myth: Don't Be Fooled - BuiltLean
> 
> I'm not claiming I know the answers, but I do recall this discussion before.


Both articles describe the misinterpretation of the fat burning zone that you're describing. Low intensity does use a higher percentage of fat for energy, but overall you're burning fewer calories per unit of time. Higher intensity does reduce this percentage, but results in a higher overall calorie consumption. So the net effect is more fat can be burned per unit of time from high intensity workouts versus low intensity workouts. High intensity also burns a lot more calories after the work out is completed versus low intensity.

I agree with your points on proper training, but this thread started as a non racing discussion.

"While low intensity exercise certainly has its place within an exercise regimen, relying on exercise in the fat burning zone to burn fat is not an efficient approach. Contrary to popular belief, getting up early in the morning to do low intensity cardio on an empty stomach will not help you lose more body fat versus other more intense methods. For busy people, interval training and circuit training workouts are substantially more efficient to help you burn far more calories in much less time, and burn more fat in the process.

With all that said, I highly recommend not relying on exercise to "burn fat" to get lean. In the context of a fat loss program, exercise helps you keep your muscle, stay fit, make modest increases to your metabolism, and burn some fat. Because it's a scientific fact that you must eat less calories than you burn to lose fat, nutrition has a much more powerful impact on this equation and consequently, it should be your main focus."


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## Dr.Zoidberg (Sep 9, 2007)

ewarnerusa said:


> Both articles describe the misinterpretation of the fat burning zone that you're describing. Low intensity does use a higher percentage of fat for energy, but overall you're burning fewer calories per unit of time. Higher intensity does reduce this percentage, but results in a higher overall calorie consumption. So the net effect is more fat can be burned per unit of time from high intensity workouts versus low intensity workouts. High intensity also burns a lot more calories after the work out is completed versus low intensity.


I agree 100%. IMO absolute calorie burn is more significant than % of fat burn. You'll also get some relative muscular build benefits and cardio recovery benefits if incorporating intervals as part of high intensity.


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## muddy_tires (Nov 21, 2014)

OK. I'm back from not-so-long slow ride lol.



ewarnerusa said:


> Both articles describe the misinterpretation of the fat burning zone that you're describing.


Well, there is no misinterpretation in what I'm describing. You burn more fat from a longer lower intensity workout than from a higher intensity one when you burn the same calories. I think we agree on this. And it all boils down to the balance of calorie intake and expenditure. I think we agree on this too. You can burn 400k calories and it can be 300k from fat and 100k from glucose, or 100k from fat and 300k from glucose. Knowing that lowering blood glucose level makes you hungry, which do you think will make you feel more hungry? Like I said, I lost 10lbs in 3 months by sticking to an endurance program with a lot of lower intensity rides. I was pretty fit before that and riding almost everyday, still I lost 10lbs without any limit on calorie intake, and started to look more like an XC racer or a roadie, which didn't really help in DH racing lol, but I was injured and couldn't do much so I trained for endurance.

Anyway, I'm not saying higher intensity workouts in combination with proper diet are not effective. But it makes sense to me to train more like an XC racer if you want to look more like one. I'm not surprised OP was "beating everyone on all of the downhills and still placing near the end of the pack" and "had the body of a bear" instead of "the body of an antelope" when he was training like how a DH racer should&#8230; And even for DH, going all out everyday physically is probably not a good idea.


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## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

muddy_tires said:


> You burn more fat from a longer lower intensity workout than from a *shorter* higher intensity one when you burn the same calories.


Fixed that for you.



muddy_tires said:


> Knowing that lowering blood glucose level makes you hungry, which do you think will make you feel more hungry?


You have a good point there. I am def less hungry after a low intensity workout. But I find low intensity workouts boring.


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## muddy_tires (Nov 21, 2014)

TracksFromHell said:


> Fixed that for you.
> 
> You have a good point there. I am def less hungry after a low intensity workout. But I find low intensity workouts boring.


"Low" intensity was still average of 18 mph on a road bike, 35+ on some downhill so it wasn't bad for me. I can keep it at low intensity on easier trails on my MTB too, although it's hard to be as consistent. 1800 feet of climbing in 3 miles would not be low intensity for me though, even at slower than walking speed. But OP may be able to take it easy and make it at least lower intensity.


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## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

muddy_tires said:


> "Low" intensity was still average of 18 mph on a road bike, 35+ on some downhill so it wasn't bad for me. I can keep it at low intensity on easier trails on my MTB too, although it's hard to be as consistent. 1800 feet of climbing in 3 miles would not be low intensity for me though, even at slower than walking speed. But OP may be able to take it easy and make it at least lower intensity.


OK, I'm being hard on you ... Unfortunately, around here everything is achieved with a hill climb and then goes downhill. So, low intensity is not practical, it's all struggle.

But low intense does seem to result in less post-hunger. So there's got to be a point in that for practical weight loss.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Go hard and eat plenty of fibre... cycle your intensity... cut down on the sugar ^^ I've lost 14kg doing the above...


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## Superfly Lee (Oct 20, 2014)

I'm not an expert by any means, and there is no way I'm going to count calories or get on a program or app or something, but I'll tell you what worked for me. I'm about 5'9".

When I was 25 I was extremely fit, rode bikes a ton, played a lot of soccer, and weighed about 175. When I was 35, I had a job I loved but was super-stressful, and had small kids. I rode as much as I could(not that much) played a little soccer, and weighed around 205(in the winter probably more like 215). At 40 I left my stressful job and started my own business, and started really taking my health and fitness more seriously. Now, at 45, I ride much more, play a lot of soccer, ride my dirt bike a couple times a month, and work out in the gym a couple/few times a week, mostly stretching, running, and light weights. Now I'm very fit and weigh 180. Of course that's all much easier to do now because my business runs itself to some extent and I have more free time, but even when my schedule gets heavy, I always find time to exercise even if it's just for an hour or so.

I try to eat healthy, but I'm not obsessive about it. I don't drink any soda or beer, and I eat a lot of lean protein, but I will go out for wings and a milkshake from time to time. 

I think the key, at least for me, is to get a lot of exercise, doing a lot of different things. If you just ride bikes, you body will adjust, and you won't lose much weight if any. You have to mix it up. I played indoor soccer tonight. I'm going to ride singletrack tomorrow afternoon for probably about 1.5 hours. I'll probably hit the gym Saturday morning for a little while, then I'll rest the rest of the day and play outdoor soccer Sunday. Monday I'll rest and focus on work, then Tuesday I'll be back at something, either after work or during the day instead of a lunch break. A lot of days, I'll do 2 thing in 1 day, like go for a quick ride in the morning, and then play soccer or hit the gym that night. I do something active at least 5 days a week, usually 6.

The only problem with all this is I'm dinged up all the time, but it's so worth it. I have a ton of fun, and I feel great. So the answer for me is get out there and have fun. Hope this helps!


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## TracksFromHell (Jul 9, 2014)

What's great about this thread is that we are all on the same page as far as getting in shape and losing weight is concerned! Every comment here reminds us to be diligent and be aware of our lifestyle and diet. To all of you bro's and bra's - good going! Keep it up!


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## MadPainterGrafx (Oct 3, 2014)

I haven't read all of the replies but I wish I would've found this earlier. To the OP in 2001 I had an accident and broke my back then after healing up from that and starting to feel good I had to deal with cancer in feb 2003. Which left me drained and hungry well I put on weight... a lot of weight and show up to 350+/- a few here or there. I saw a photo of me with my son at christmas in 2004 and was horrified because I didn't realize I was that big. I started dieting and was successful and dropped down to 310 in about a year. Then when I got my tax money I bought an elliptical trainer that offered a bunch of different programmed workouts. I had been doing some walking before but knew that I had to start slow and build my endurance to reach my goals in weight loss/cardio fitness. What I did was started at 15min at first just to adjust to the machine and figure out the programs. After that my routine was this... 

Wake up, get dressed to workout, stretch for 15 minutes(everything), do a warm up of 5 min then start into the program which I started with interval program and did it on a lower intensity level for about 15 min. or until I got tired then I would cool down on the machine for about 3-5 min. and as soon as I got off of the machine I would stretch for another 10 min. I would go take a shower and get ready for the day I would eat a bowl of oatmeal everyday for breakfast with a little bit of orange juice or water. As I progressed the levels got higher and my time got longer. I was working with a physician (sort of.. I worked in a hospital and one of the docs helped me watch in over doing it) and from the time I started in mid January until easter I dropped 55lbs and was back into jeans I hadn't worn in a long time. Now before any of you jump my case about loosing that much that fast I was being watched by a doctor and checked in with him on this several times a week and was given a good bill of health.

Anyway what I was thinking is that maybe if you utilized an elliptical trainer it might help you loose what you want because it would be training that your body isn't use to doing and every time I would hit a plateau I would switch intensity or to another program to change things up and keep my body constantly adjusting as well. The one I found the most difficult was the rolling hills because you never really stopped and didn't have much rest time between starting another climb. Not sure if this will help but it was just an idea. I'm searching for another machine now that I can afford since I lost the other one in the divorce. lol


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## NateDubya (Nov 21, 2014)

I have seen Weight Watchers change peoples lives time and time again... I do not struggle with obesity or anything, so I would say that it has changed my life, but I do go on it for a few weeks in February/March time frame to drop my winter weight quickly. I have never joined the program as it is very easy to navigate online or via free apps. After the first week or so you wont even need the app because you will learn exactly what food is worth points wise.

I personally dont buy into Weight Watchers Plus. I think that it is somewhat design for more sustainable lifestyle diet but in the short run it just wont be as effective. The original points system may seem brutal on your taste buds but your body will adjust quickly.

It gets a little tricky come family meal time so you may need to get your cook on board


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## guitarjohn21 (Jan 16, 2012)

One word, NutribulletRX


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## guitarjohn21 (Jan 16, 2012)

....and make it your new years resolution to ride at least 50 miles a week in the mtns. 
...and limit your processed & refined sugar intake to less than an oz per day.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Sorry, but anyone who advocates for stretching for 15 min before exercise has absolutely no credibility. Per multiple peer reviewed articles, published by physiology journals, , this is complete bunk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> Sorry, but anyone who advocates for stretching for 15 min before exercise has absolutely no credibility. Per multiple peer reviewed articles, published by physiology journals, , this is complete bunk.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How about the warm-up part?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Yes. Of course. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thatshowiroll (Jan 30, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> Sorry, but anyone who advocates for stretching for 15 min before exercise has absolutely no credibility. Per multiple peer reviewed articles, published by physiology journals, , this is complete bunk.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Like the saying goes, "Does a lion stretch before it attacks its prey?". ; )


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## petercarm (Nov 5, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Sorry, but anyone who advocates for stretching for 15 min before exercise has absolutely no credibility. Per multiple peer reviewed articles, published by physiology journals, , this is complete bunk.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


At some points in my life, particularly when overweight, it has taken me about that long to stretch out my back and hamstrings so that I can function for the day without pain. 


Thatshowiroll said:


> Like the saying goes, "Does a lion stretch before it attacks its prey?". ; )


Apparently, by the wisdom of Google, they do.


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## Thatshowiroll (Jan 30, 2009)

guitarjohn21 said:


> One word, NutribulletRX


Curious to know your results/experience with it.


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## guitarjohn21 (Jan 16, 2012)

Thatshowiroll said:


> Curious to know your results/experience with it.


I had been in the hospital for 3 weeks (broken leg) and another 5 in a wheelchair after that. I put on about 30 lbs from the experience and it was the longest stretch of inactivity for me in years. I started using the Nutribullet for the nutritional benefits to help the healing process, and I started losing weight. Just a pound or two a week at first while I was still in the chair and crutches. Now that I can ride again (although very slowly) I'm seeing all my clothes fit again, people are saying I've lost weight. I am now rebuilding so much lost muscle mass, so I've leveled off on the weight loss, but I'm losing all that fat from sitting around all those weeks. So I expect to regain my ideal weight once my legs are back in shape and can achieve the Cardio levels I used to do. From the injuries, It's like I lost 20lbs of muscle and also gained 30lbs, so in effect I was really 50lbs out of shape, or more. I am about 15 lbs away from my goal at the moment.


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## 53x11 (Jan 28, 2014)

Its all because of SUGAR and "hidden" sugar in all kinds of products -from ketchup to ham and chicken wings..


Read On..

1. When you eat food the body digests macronutrients: carbohydrates,

proteins, various amino-acids, and fats.

2. Anything that body cannot digest, like alcohol or fiber or toxins, either passes

right through or if gets into your bloodstream, then gets filtered by your

liver.

3. We count or measure our food in grams, calories, etc., but for our bodies the

operative term, so to speak, is “the fuel”. If we eat more “fuel” then

necessary, then our bodies store the excess. This ability to store the excess

fuel is the necessary ability to survive, since for the most part of human

history the food was not readily available to humans. This ability to store the

excess fuel was passed down to us through the genes of our ancestors.

4. Every type of carbohydrate we eat is eventually converted into a simple form

of sugar, known as Glucose, either directly in the gut or after a brief visit to

the liver.

5. While Glucose is technically a “fuel”, it is quite toxic in excess amounts and if

not located inside of cells, but rather in the bloodstream. So, our bodies have

an elegant way to get rid of the excess Glucose out of the bloodstream and

store it in the cells of our muscles or in the liver. This is that “muscle fuel”

that hard anaerobic exercise requires (like sprints, or other type of bursts or

lifting heavy things, etc.)

6. Specialized beta-cells in our Pancreas senses the abundance of Glucose in

the bloodstream and secrets the Insulin, a special hormone, whose job is to

allow Glucose and fats, and amino acids to gain access to the interior of

muscle and liver cells. Once those cells are full (cells in our muscles and the

liver), as they are always with inactive people, the rest of the Glucose is

converted to saturated fat.

7. Almost all living things have the hormone Insulin, as it plays a vital role in

storing the excess nutrients.

IT IS NOT FAT THAT IS STORED AS FAT IT IS THE EXCESS SUGAR!!!

8. Our ancestors had very little access to sugar or to carbohydrates. There were

some small and sour fruits and berries, and various roots here and there, but

mostly their diet consisted in various degrees of fats and protein. Scientists

(anthropologists) discovered that our ancestors consumed on an average

about 80 grams of carbohydrates compare to 350-600 grams in the MAD

(Modern American Diet).

9. Today, when people eat too many carbohydrates (sugar), the Pancreas

pumps up the Insulin, exactly as it has to.

10. Once the muscle and liver cells become filled with Glycogen, or Glucose (as

mentioned above), these cells become resistant to the “calls” of Insulin. The

Insulin receptors (sensors) on the surface of those cells start decreasing in

number, as well as in efficiency. The official term is “the down-regulation”.

11. Since the Glucose can’t get into the muscle or liver cells it remains in the

bloodstream.

12. Now a Pancreas senses that there is still too much Glucose in the

bloodstream, so it frantically pumps out even more Insulin, which causes the

Insulin receptors become even more resistant, because excess Insulin is also

toxic.

13. Eventually, the Insulin helps the excess Glucose find its way into fat cells,

where it is stored as fat.

IT IS NOT FAT THAT IS STORED IN FAT CELLS IT IS SUGAR!!!

14. Over time as people continue to eat more carbohydrates (sugar) and not

exercise the degree of Insulin sensitivity decreases even more.

15. DRUGS DON’T FIX IT!!!

16. The levels of blood Glucose stay higher longer because Glucose cannot make

it into the muscle or liver cells. This excess toxic Glucose is like a sludge in

the bloodstream clogging arteries and binding to proteins, forming harmful

AGE’s (Advanced Glycation End-products), and causing systemic

inflammation. All of this, in turn, increases the risk of heart disease.

17. Continue the spiral, more sugar gets stored as fat, since the muscle cells get

less Glycogen because they became resistant. Also, Insulin inhibits the fat

burning enzyme, called Lipase, and people can’t burn stored fat anymore, at

least, not as easily. People continue to get fatter until those cells become

resistant themselves.

18. Level of Insulin stays higher longer, since Pancreas “thinks” that if little

Insulin is not working, then more Insulin would be “better” and it needs to

pump up more Insulin into the bloodstream. Wrong! Insulin in excess levels

is toxic, causing plaque buildup in the arteries, which is why diabetics have

so much heart disease. Also, it causes cellular proliferation in cancers (that

is, cancer grows faster).

19. As Insulin resistance prevents Glucose from entering the muscle cells it also

prevents amino acids from entering muscle cells. As a result, people can’t

built or maintain their muscles.

20. To make matters worse, other parts of the body “think” that there is not

enough stored Glucose in the cells, so they send signal to start cannibalizing

the precious muscle tissue to make more ... Glucose!!! YOU GET FATTER AND

YOU LOSE MUSCLES!!!

21. Energy levels drop, which makes people hungrier for carbohydrates. People

actually become addictive and crave more poison that is killing them.

22. When liver becomes Insulin resistant it can’t convert the hormone T4 into

T3, so people get those “mysterious” and stubborn thyroid problems, which

further slows down metabolism.

23. Neuropathies and retinopathy are developed (pain in the extremities and

loss of the eyesight), as damage from excess sugar destroys the nerve

tissue.

24. Eventually, the Pancreas is so exhausted that it can’t produce anymore

Insulin. At this point people have to start injecting Insulin (lots of it) to stay

alive.

25. Congratulation! At this point, the insulin resistant, type II diabetes welcomes

you!


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## guitarjohn21 (Jan 16, 2012)

I think the nutribullet is the best invention since the juicer for getting more nutrients into your body. It uses way less produce than a juicer since nothing is wasted. It is not a drug, it is a high speed blender that inables one to consume things like kale, chard, turmeric, nuts & seeds without any preparation. I believe proper nutrition Is the key to having a disease-free healthy balanced life, and weight loss is just the side effect of taking these steps.


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## guitarjohn21 (Jan 16, 2012)

I think the nutribullet is the best invention since the juicer for getting more nutrients into your body. It uses way less produce than a juicer since nothing is wasted. It is not a drug, it is a high speed blender that inables one to consume things like kale, chard, turmeric, nuts & seeds without any preparation. I believe proper nutrition Is the key to having a disease-free healthy balanced life, and weight loss is just the side effect of taking these steps.


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## 53x11 (Jan 28, 2014)

So after posting this article about major role of sugar in weight loss i get -6 to my reputations.. Come on haters! yo gonna eat your sugar still?


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## Thatshowiroll (Jan 30, 2009)

Instead of the Nutribullet, I purchased the Ninja. It's cheaper and still has the same wattage/RPM as the Nutri.
It's a really good way to get a lot of veggies into your food-hole.


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## petercarm (Nov 5, 2007)

pavlov0032 said:


> So after posting this article about major role of sugar in weight loss i get -6 to my reputations.. Come on haters! yo gonna eat your sugar still?


You presented an anti-sugar diatribe. It was banging a drum so hard on a single issue and presenting cause and effect determinism for a system that is subtle and complex and far from deterministic with our current understanding.

Basically you came across as "IT'S THE SUGAR, DUMBASSES!!!"

For forty years we've had "IT'S THE HIGH FAT DIET, DUMBASSES!!!"... which turns out to be an incorrect deterministic dogma that is maybe adrift by more than a little bit from the truth. Fool me once...

So hidden in your cut and paste propaganda of uncredited origin and unblushing immodesty there is the nugget that I might paraphrase as "excessive sugar in the diet really isn't a brilliant idea for long term population health outcomes (mechanism indeterminate)".

I can provide a single anecdotal data point regarding that hypothesis.

I cut out sugar and sweet things and drank my coffee black for several months a bit over a year ago, while maintaining my calorific intake in line with my established activity levels (commuting 20 miles most days by bike, mountain biking at weekends). The major lifestyle change that has stuck is that I have not drunk any soda (sugar or diet) since. In more recent times I've introduced a regular intake of nuts (principally almonds) and berries and eliminated coffee. I make no effort to avoid fatty foods except to account for their calorific content.

My exercise routine is now something I monitor. I try not to sit still for large expanses of the day and feel grotty if I do. I'm not comfortable with three non-exercise days in a row at which point any workout is a good workout. A half hour run gets the job done if that is all the time I have.

Since instigating these changes I have lost >7kg in weight. I went from long term "overweight" BMI to solidly and maintainably "normal". I've seen a diagnosed chronic skin condition (rosacea) clear up and show no signs of return. In a few days time I'll be 46 and I'm enjoying the best athletic form of my adult life since my college days.

YMMV


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## 53x11 (Jan 28, 2014)

petercarm said:


> You presented an anti-sugar diatribe. It was banging a drum so hard on a single issue and presenting cause and effect determinism for a system that is subtle and complex and far from deterministic with our current understanding.
> 
> Basically you came across as "IT'S THE SUGAR, DUMBASSES!!!"
> 
> ...


Just cutting sugar out of the coffee is not enough, you need to exclude "hidden sugar" such as found in 90% of all processed foods.

Also not eating any carbs before noon will switch your body from trying getting "cheap" energy from glucose into getting energy from burning fat.

Don't worry, once you educate yourself on this matter (if you willing to) you will come to realization that its not the high fat content , but high sugar content that contributing to weight gain, just as described in the article I posted.


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## guitarjohn21 (Jan 16, 2012)

Thatshowiroll said:


> Instead of the Nutribullet, I purchased the Ninja. It's cheaper and still has the same wattage/RPM as the Nutri.
> It's a really good way to get a lot of veggies into your food-hole.


.
Yes they are the same thing. The original Nutribullet is 600 watts and spins at 10000 rpm and costs about $70, the new RX is 2.5 hp and spins at 30000 rpm and costs $200 and comes with the soup maker, which I'm starting to use more and more. Any one of the 3 out there is a great investment in your health. There is also the Vitamix to be had at $500, and I'm not so sure that they are any better. My experience with them had results that were not as liquified as the original Nutribullet, with a gritty texture that I did not like and I just kept using my juicer for another two years until I found the new extractor.

If I didn't do what I do now for a living, I would have gone
into the health products industry because I'm such a believer in preventive medicines and nutritionally based healing from 20 years of first hand experience.


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## petercarm (Nov 5, 2007)

Deleted


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## Thatshowiroll (Jan 30, 2009)

Thatshowiroll said:


> Instead of the Nutribullet, I purchased the Ninja. It's cheaper and still has the same wattage/RPM as the Nutri.
> It's a really good way to get a lot of veggies into your food-hole.


Goshdarnit! I really need to get some good tasting recipes for this thing. Most of the veggie smoothies I'm making taste like ass.


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## guitarjohn21 (Jan 16, 2012)

Thatshowiroll said:


> Goshdarnit! I really need to get some good tasting recipes for this thing. Most of the veggie smoothies I'm making taste like ass.


A good basic recipe I use is 1/3 fruit (I use mostly berries, banana, pineapple, and red grapes for flavor). 1/3 vegetables (ie: kale, spinach, chard, broccoli). Then I add a handful of mixed nuts (raw almonds, cashews and walnuts with a tsp of chia and flax seeds)

I Almost forgot the most important ingredient, turmeric root for inflammation. That got me off my medications after my surgeries, since I developed an allergic reaction to them it was a godsend.

Full with water to the line, blend and when it's done, add Ice and shake. :thumbsup:


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