# Vintage Cross Bike Thread CX



## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Is there a thread on vintage cross bikes? I have an older Curtlo one (that's not old enough to be vintage) that I use as my bike around town but I know some of you guys have some nice ones made by some fantastic builders. (eh hem, Halaburt and DC.)

In all the excitement of the NAHBS show I forgot something that really got me stoked at the show until Black Mountain Cycles mentioned it. Bruce Gordon is bringing back the skinwall Panaracer Rock n' Roll 700 x 43c foldable tires. The tread looks great for rolling as well as dirt. Come April, all the vintage CX bikes can sport some good looking tires to match their vintage rides.

Yay for the retro grouches everywhere. Thank you, Bruce Gordon!


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

The 40c on the bike at the show looked pretty big, right Nate? Do you have pics? I'm digging through mine without success.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

*dbl*


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

didn't see this one coming...


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

I was stoked to hear about the Rock n Road rerelease as well....and then dejected to think they might prove too big for my spindly Steeman Eurocross (at least in front).


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

hollister said:


> didn't see this one coming...


wha....


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

No--I don't have any pics unfortunately. The booth was pretty packed each time I went by, so I contented myself to see with my eyes, not with my lens. But yeah, fat tire for a trad cross bike.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

40mm is a big CX tire. My Bontrager CX wont's accept a 38mm rear tire, although it fits in the front. My newer CX bike foes accept larger tires though.


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## rasumichin (Oct 21, 2008)

Dugast 34mm in a 1985 touring bike modified to CX:



much more mud clearance in front:


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## rigidftw (Mar 21, 2010)

^nice bike!

here's mine. some old belgian racing cyclocross bike (no bottle mounts ). should be a diamant.


















tires are kenda krosscyclo, 700x35c, very cheap, but actually quite good. 
not shown in the pics is the bigger chainring, salsa stem and proper dropbars that i put on last month.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

girlonbike said:


> Is there a thread on vintage cross bikes? I have an older Curtlo one (that's not old enough to be vintage) ...


I hesitate to start this discussion again, for a whole new discipline... but what's the distinction between vintage versus non-vintage cyclocross bikes?

I have this '97/'98 Ibis Hakkaluggi that may or may not qualify. It seems like you and a few others actually have one of these, too, if I recall correctly. I haven't shared mine in the VRC forum yet however, because it has a few modern components. It's my absolute favorite bike to ride at the moment though, from one of my favorite vintage builders, AND it fits a 44c tire quite nicely, as you can see. I'll bet those skinwall rock&road tires would look REALLY sweet on it. Hmmmm....


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

iamkeith said:


> I hesitate to start this discussion again, for a whole new discipline... but what's the distinction between vintage versus non-vintage cyclocross bikes?


Hmmm... Not sure about your question, but can it really be called a Hakkalugi if it's not green?


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

laffeaux said:


> Hmmm... Not sure about your question, but can it really be called a Hakkalugi if it's not green?


Seems like an open door for what could be some some pretty gross come-backs... so I'll refrain from answering. 

But here are some pictures, stollen from the web, of the TIRE in question...


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## burritoguru (Aug 22, 2008)

*tire clearance*

Was being able to fit these size tires a custom feature? All Hakkalugi's that I have heard of including mine, fit tires up to 35mm.
I also have a 98 Salsa La Cruz .



iamkeith said:


> I hesitate to start this discussion again, for a whole new discipline... but what's the distinction between vintage versus non-vintage cyclocross bikes?
> 
> I have this '97/'98 Ibis Hakkaluggi that may or may not qualify. It seems like you and a few others actually have one of these, too, if I recall correctly. I haven't shared mine in the VRC forum yet however, because it has a few modern components. It's my absolute favorite bike to ride at the moment though, from one of my favorite vintage builders, AND it fits a 44c tire quite nicely, as you can see. I'll bet those skinwall rock&road tires would look REALLY sweet on it. Hmmmm....
> 
> View attachment 679652


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 10, 2007)

iamkeith said:


> I have this '97/'98 Ibis Hakkaluggi


Probably my favorite CX bike, or as they called it, an adventure bike. They used stainless Columbus Metax chainstays, which was pretty cool.

Speaking of Metax, here's my 1996 (or so) Rhygin Metax CX. This is one rare bird as only about a dozen Metax CX bikes were produced. Tire clearance is only 32mm, but I can deal with that. Not really "vintage" but it does have some nice parts on it.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

The saddle IS nice


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## MRisme (Mar 22, 2010)

misterdangerpants said:


>


Those brakes! Do want. What are they!?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

The rims are pretty sweet too.


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 10, 2007)

ender. said:


> Those brakes! Do want. What are they!?


SRP Mr. Grumpy


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

iamkeith said:


> I hesitate to start this discussion again, for a whole new discipline... but what's the distinction between vintage versus non-vintage cyclocross bikes?


Thanks for the pics of the Rock n Roll tread. It looks really really fun to ride.

As for you Lugi, sure seems okay to me.  For me, at least, if the frame looks the same or similar to what they have been making for years, it would slide into vintage. It is a pandora's box though.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

burritoguru said:


> Was being able to fit these size tires a custom feature? All Hakkalugi's that I have heard of including mine, fit tires up to 35mm.
> I also have a 98 Salsa La Cruz .


The '97 Ibis catalog said "15mm of mud and fender room, even with 35c tires." So I've used up most of the mud clearance, to be sure. I use it as a trail bike though, and don't race cyclocross, so mud clearance isn't a huge issue to me. It seems like tires aren't always measured apples-to-apples, either. 44mm could be the tread dimension in this case, and be the casing diameter in others. As you can see, the tightest clearance condition is actually at the back of the seat tube, and not the stays. If it starts to be a problem (there's a pulley hiding under that ice), I may have to switch to a top pull derailleur - but so far so good.

















I just built this up last year, and it was frustratingly hard to find off-road 700c tires in a 42-44 size range. The Panaracer/IRC FireXC Pro, that everybody uses now, is a really wide and knobby 45, and doesn't fit many bikes. So I think this rock 'n road is great news! Coverage from the NAHMBS said that "monstercross" bikes were a big theme this year, so maybe there'll be even more mid-size options coming that will fit our vintage bikes!


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

iamkeith said:


> So I think this rock 'n road is great news! Coverage from the NAHMBS said that "monstercross" bikes were a big theme this year, so maybe there'll be even more mid-size options coming that will fit our vintage bikes!


The 40c ones in the show looked really really big. I'm a little curious what the actual measurement will be.

The Tioga Gritty Gripper is a 700 x 40c and comes in skinwall. You can still find these around.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

rigidftw said:


> ^nice bike!
> 
> here's mine. some old belgian racing cyclocross bike (no bottle mounts ). should be a diamant.
> 
> ...


Cool lookin bike there!

I can't say I'm a huge 'cross bike fan (give me a mtb or a road bike) although I think they're neat and can be fun.

Those Rock n Road tires are a fairly close copy to the early Nokian Hakkepalita (sp?) tires. I'll have to snap a pic of mine.

I've got a couple vintage cross bikes (bontrager, alan, cunningham) and recently picked up an early 90s Bianchi Project which I will probably put drop bars on and maybe some mustache bars like on yours, rigidftw... Not sure yet on the direction of that one. Any ideas would be welcome.


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## rigidftw (Mar 21, 2010)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Cool lookin bike there!
> 
> I can't say I'm a huge 'cross bike fan (give me a mtb or a road bike) although I think they're neat and can be fun.
> 
> ...


thanks!
should be just over a year that i own this bike and i rode just about any kind of terrain with it. cross bikes are the most versatile bikes i know and 90% of the riding you'd usually do with a mtb around here can be done a cross bike, too. 
the racing scene around them is something i actually dislike, though. way too frantic for me...and too short.

i'd vote for the moustache bars on your bianchi! and a riding position that might seem a little too short at first. add some small gearing, chunky tires and you got yourself a trailrocket.

here's a pic i made today, it's more road-oriented now...


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## bmxcollector (Nov 21, 2006)

I've got an Alan I picked up at a swap from a guy named Don. Cool bike he said he won some races with it. Had some remnants of Ritchey stickers on it when I got it. I'll grab some pictures in the morning.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

bmxcollector said:


> I've got an Alan I picked up at a swap from a guy named Don. Cool bike he said he won some races with it. Had some remnants of Ritchey stickers on it when I got it. I'll grab some pictures in the morning.


Serious!? Don Myrah?


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

That'd make up for the Fisher  ...what size is the Alan?


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## bmxcollector (Nov 21, 2006)

It's not a Fisher...well maybe it is but I just call it The Zebra!

Not saying it was Don Myrah and at the time I would have had no idea who that was. It would be interesting to find out if it was him selling at the swap. It was an early Trailhead swap.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 26, 2006)

I need to clean it up and fix it up and take some better pics but I've had this for over 25 years. Built by KB for my old buddy Dave Mac. Repainted once by a friend of mine in 1986? I also have him add the bottle mounts.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Great topic. I don't have much to share at the moment, but one day hope to see this bike fully restored and back on dirt,









photo credit to Erik Bainbridge of mountainbikeroots.com


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

*Bianchi Cross Project USA*

This is a 1996 Bianchi Cross Project USA bike. It is handmade at the Reparto Corse out of dedacciai Tubing with dedacciai fork. I got it a local bike shop that bought it from a pro who was out here doing spring training and needed to off load it before the summer road season started.

As I recall it was one of 3 prototypes for the upcoming Bianchi Cross Project bike of that season. I have never been able to get much info on the bike and I suspect it was a prototype because it uses a lugged BB that has minimal clearance perhaps from a road bike or a bianchi touring style bike.

Anyway this is the only picture i have of it right now. Originally it was smattering of Campy stuff, some chorus and such but the wheels were shimano I think so nothing worked well. I eventually converted it to 9spd dura-ace and left the gorgeous chorus cranks on.

Worst part is the crummy threaded headset and the minimal clearance for tires. It will fit at maximum a narrow 700x40c tire. I have run some Vittoria CX tires in the 700x34c range for a race or 2 and some Conti Cross Country tires (or something like that) in the 700x40c range but needed to run the wheel all the way back in the drops.

Of all the vintage bikes I have collecting dust this is the one I want most back on the road. Next bike swap I want to be sourcing out some parts for it. Quill stem etc.


Yeah I know...worst. picture.Evar. and weed your lawn dude! (picture is a scan of print film so you know I took this right after I bought it).


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Reparto Corse*



rockcrusher said:


> ... the minimal clearance for tires. It will fit at maximum a narrow 700x40c tire. I have run some Vittoria CX tires in the 700x34c range for a race or 2 and some Conti Cross Country tires (or something like that) in the 700x40c range but needed to run the wheel all the way back in the drops.


Lucky. My 1998 Reparto Corse could take 32mm max on the front or they'd hit the downtube. Toe overlap was awful too. Loved that bike though!


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

Shayne said:


> Lucky. My 1998 Reparto Corse could take 32mm max on the front or they'd hit the downtube. Toe overlap was awful too. Loved that bike though!


Hmm that is weird. I have a lot of clearance and I have never noticed overlap. I have mountain biked with it before on local easier trails and, small tires aside, it was pretty awesome. Not a 29er perse but pretty dang competent. Scary on the rocky fast descents but fast on the twisty turny singletrack and rollers.

I'll have to dust it off and get some better pictures some day.


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## GMF (Jan 10, 2004)

My '00 reparto corse is now my fixie commuter. I bought it off the catalog and was bummed that they had switched to tig welding at that point. 
Bent the fork in an endo on a long descent (there is a reason why self-energizing brakes aren't found on the front very often), and had Tom Teesedale make a... how shall we say... stout replacement.

It is a good bike that gets a lot of use (sitting right behind me in the office), but isn't quite like the lugged beauties from just a few years earlier...


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## datasurfer (Nov 24, 2006)

*Voodoo Wazoo*









OK, not totally vintage: 1998 Voodoo Wazoo. But for once, I can actually say that it has cantilevers and is rigid! It's my city bike and the bike that I ride off road 75% of the time when you don't actually need a MTB.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

I guess this sorta fits here. Sure has been fun to ride.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Ken likes them too!


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> Is there a thread on vintage cross bikes? I have an older Curtlo one (that's not old enough to be vintage) that I use as my bike around town but I know some of you guys have some nice ones made by some fantastic builders. (eh hem, Halaburt and DC.)
> 
> In all the excitement of the NAHBS show I forgot something that really got me stoked at the show until Black Mountain Cycles mentioned it. Bruce Gordon is bringing back the skinwall Panaracer Rock n' Roll 700 x 43c foldable tires. The tread looks great for rolling as well as dirt. Come April, all the vintage CX bikes can sport some good looking tires to match their vintage rides.
> 
> Yay for the retro grouches everywhere. Thank you, Bruce Gordon!


I'd like to see photos of your Curtlo.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Steelman! Such a light bike.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2012)

That is sweet, love the fork dropout. I sure wish I was your size, you have everything I want


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Mine has the exact same wheelset, down to the nipples. I guess it was a Steelman thing?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

shawnw said:


> That is sweet, love the fork dropout. I sure wish I was your size, you have everything I want


You're getting there, Shawn! 



yo-Nate-y said:


> Mine has the exact same wheelset, down to the nipples. I guess it was a Steelman thing?


ha! gotta love the red/pink nipples.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

never had a cross bike..... poor me.
i was surfing steelman's gallery yesterday. Thought i was touring Heaven.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Here's mine, re-purposed as my main city bike/commuter:


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> Steelman! Such a light bike.


Cool bike! Slide levers up 1" or so to avoid the busboy look.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Cool bike! Slide levers up 1" or so to avoid the busboy look.


Yeah, I noticed that, FB, but had all sorts of issues with the original set up and swapped it out. To avoid having to buy a new stem I went with a compact bar with a 26.0 clamping diameter which turned out harder to find than I expected.


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

Thank you, Girl on Bike. Those Steelmans are beautiful. How does the Curtlo ride?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> Yeah, I noticed that, FB, but had all sorts of issues with the original set up and swapped it out. To avoid having to buy a new stem I went with a compact bar with a 26.0 clamping diameter which turned out harder to find than I expected.


Looks like a great little rig!


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2012)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Looks like a great little rig!


Hey GOB, lets take it out tomorrow and get it dirty


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

*Petaluma-built La Cruz*

Some really sweet bikes in this thread!

Here is my first CX build, inspired in no small part by BMC Mike's cross bike blogs.

"Before" photo, the bike spent the last 10 years as a commuter in SF









The Petaluma-built La Cruz bikes were only in production from '96~'98, not sure when this one was built. Serial # SM2483









Swapped out the Vees/Travel Agents for Tektro wide profile cantis. I love these puppies, they are inexpensive, work well, and have the retro look of the first gen XT cantis.









Swapped out the Noodle bars for first gen Nitto RM-014 dirt drops.









The original Salsa stem was way too low rise, long reach for me to use on the dirt. This one has the same reach as a P7, with the rise somewhere between the P7 and P10.









The obligatory tire clearance photo. These are 40mm Clement MSOs.
There should be plenty of clearance to even run the 43mm Bruce Gordon Rock N Roads.
But I think this XTR differential plate FD has to go. It is clunky and takes up way too much room behind the seattube, besides requiring a shim to fit. A nice elegant XTR M900/M901 would be sweet.









And this because, well, how could anyone possibly resist?









Philosophical statement









Hi-res scan of the '98 Salsa catalog (thanks Jeff at FFB). This bike is a 56cm.


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## stubecontinued (Mar 14, 2007)

My Pinarello, built up with VRC, or at least old MTB components.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

stubecontinued said:


> My Pinarello, built up with VRC, or at least old MTB components.


Very nice.


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## bayshred (Mar 2, 2010)

My Concorde Colombo. Columbus Aelle.


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## rigidftw (Mar 21, 2010)

i put the old itm bar back on, with a better stem. i'll leave it like that now. dropbars just don't really work for me, on this bike at least.


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## danec99 (Jul 22, 2010)

*1989 Fisher "Hybrid"*

Bought this one new, I wanted a more durable road bike and my LBS had this. Put a lot of miles on it before I retired it in 2009 for a Curtlo of the same basic concept. Recently began fiddling with it but right now it is in "N+1 land."


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2013)

*STEELMAN EuroCross*

Had to have a bike from my local builder, so why not a bike that he's known for most, a CX bike. Just picked up this 1998 EuroCross. Pics are from my ride today, must admit I was smiling ear to ear.


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

shawnw said:


> Pics are from my ride today, must admit I was smiling ear to ear.


Glad to hear you like the new ride. Now just remember to still take your MTBs out for a spin every once in a while!


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## bayshred (Mar 2, 2010)

I saw that bike on Craigslist! Beautiful!


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Cool---glad you grabbed it! The Eurocross rides so nicely. Even better that you have the steel fork too.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Nice Steelman!! That looks very nice.


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2013)

Thanks guys. What was really cool is when I took it to Brent and we poured over it together.


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

DoubleCentury said:


> Great topic. I don't have much to share at the moment, but one day hope to see this bike fully restored and back on dirt,
> 
> View attachment 679977
> 
> ...


i was hoping to see this one. looking good!


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## fatchanceti (Jan 12, 2005)

2001 is probably a few years too new to be cool here. Bought frame off craigslist a few weeks ago, about 5 miles from my office.


1" front end (though currently shimmed up to 1-1/8")
Hubs are Hugi and XTR 950.
Looking for 1st gen flite in "beat to crap" condition.

XTR M900 brakes and hopefully seatpost soon:


also loses VRC points due to OS handlebar.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

Charlie Cunningham


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> Charlie Cunningham


Awesome. (good post)


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## fatchanceti (Jan 12, 2005)

That is bada$$ - is it yours CK? Certainly a much more appropriate (and worthy) submission here than mine before it!


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

fatchanceti said:


> That is bada$$ - is it yours CK? Certainly a much more appropriate (and worthy) submission here than mine before it!


Not mine. I don't ride CX bikes. Even when I raced CX.


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## dirtywrench (Feb 27, 2013)

Love that bike. A piece of history..Green Wild Grippers have never made 990's looks so good...The Mesa behind is funny...


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Wait.. 990's..


:/


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Odyssey Pitbull, sweet.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

dirtywrench said:


> Love that bike. A piece of history..Green Wild Grippers have never made 990's looks so good...The Mesa behind is funny...


Right? If you have any 990's like that, send em' my way.



hollister said:


> Wait.. 990's..
> 
> :/


LOL!


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

Started life as an early 1970's boom-bike era Bottechia road bike;









It was a well made, lightweight frame with Columbus SL grade tubing (dont think it was actually called SL back then) and nicely chromed lugwork. It has good clearance in the rear for CX tires but unfortunately the original fork A-C distance limits the front to a 32mm tire, any taller and it comed dangeroulsy close to the crown, zero mud clearance.

Couple of years ago I stripped all the paint, brazed-on cantilever bosses and top-tube cable guides and it was re-born as a vintage CX bike.


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## dirtywrench (Feb 27, 2013)

Nice braze work! Lovely modern details, very subtle other than the front der guide. Suntour bar-cons rule. Did you end up replacing the fork? or making due with the clearances?


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

The original bottechia fork did give me some trouble. With cantilever brakes, one day I got a bit of front brake chatter and the steering tube suddenly detached from the fork crown, locked the brakes and sent me flying over the bars (fortunately not hurt). Subsequent inspection showed that the fork was originally brazed together with insufficient penetration of the bronze into the crown/steertube junction. It probably held up OK for the first 40 years of the forks life, strengthened by the mounting bolt from the front centerpull brake passing through the crown and steer tube, helping keep the bond re-inforced. After the crash, I brazed the steertube back into the crown, making sure it had full penetration and has held up since. I have not yet dealt with the short AC. I raced on this bike one CX season and then custom built another steel CX frame that suits me even better. I mostly use this bike now for gravel road training and as a spare pit bike, the 32mm tire size limitation is not a serious issue. I suppose if I ever wanted to rectify, I could replace the fork blades with slightly longer blades (or try to extend the original blades) but this would destroy the original chrome on the crown and blades, I will probably just leave it as-is.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

dirtywrench said:


> Love that bike. A piece of history..Green Wild Grippers have never made 990's looks so good...The Mesa behind is funny...


huh? Are you talking about dia compe brakes? What's 990's?


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## dirtywrench (Feb 27, 2013)

990's is a BMX nomenclature. U-brakes. Brake Bosses that are above the rim essentially..


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

aHHHH!!! Thanks! I get it now.


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## olagnero (Mar 22, 2013)

Just got this very nice old Chesini X bike, resto underway...
need to sort some nice bars and alloy stem too...


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## Saddle Up (Jan 30, 2008)

*Not really a cross bike*

But even if it was I would still ride in the same way and to the same places that I do now. Swapped out the Biopace rings for a set from a Deore XT crankset I had in the parts bin. Somehow I have 3 NOS freewheels also in the parts bin so swapped out the freewheel, mounted some cyclocross tires and bought a new chain. Ready for action.







These sport tourers from the 80's make great gravel grinders.


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

retro speaks to barcons, but i do like sti. nice bike!


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

*I think it's worth a thread dredge...*

My 1994 Rock Lobster. And while technically not vintage, it's a Rock Lobster. It's my first cross bike and I just got it yesterday!


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

jmmorath said:


> My 1994 Rock Lobster. And while technically not vintage, it's a Rock Lobster.


I think that many would consider that bike "vintage," and even more would call it "classic." It definitely belongs here.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2013)

I love old Rock Lobsters, and you have a beauty there.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

laffeaux said:


> I think that many would consider that bike "vintage," and even more would call it "classic." It definitely belongs here.


I agree! Congrats and have fun!


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

Thanks to Fillet-brazed I am slowly getting this one together.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Wow, gorgeous! That is a sexy bike, Stan Lee! I like the decal(s) on the seatstays. Is there another one on the other side? It's nice to see a Ham without a steering limiter.


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2013)

Stan Lee what a treat, that thing is a beauty. Ham CX, how many were made?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Nice Stan Lee. Looks good. Hold on to those original wheels! Did you see the name written on the tire?


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2013)

*1989 Rock Lobster CX*

Has it's own Thread but sharing here too.


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Nice Stan Lee. Looks good. Hold on to those original wheels! Did you see the name written on the tire?


I did notice that Dave but I couldn't make out what it says. I've kept everything I've pulled off in a box for safe keeping.



shawnw said:


> Stan Lee what a treat, that thing is a beauty. Ham CX, how many were made?


Thanks Shawn, I don't know how many were made, Charlie said around 5 but that didn't include this one or Jacquie's. Nice Rock Lobster!


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## -Anomie- (Jan 16, 2005)

I have two Steelman Eurocrosses ('crossi?), my first bought in 2000 from Brent Steelman (an old friend of mine who I haven't seen in a long time) and the second bought from yo-Nate-y last fall. 
The orange one is sort of the antithesis of vintage, what with the DI2 and carbon crap all over it, but the silver one was made in '96 and has mostly DA9 speed components, so it almost qualifies as "vintage".


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## margefargo (Apr 4, 2013)

I have an early 90's Bianchi Axis cyclocross. The image isn't mine, but the frame is exactly what mine looks like. Size 53 frame, I think. Mine has the Sun Tour commander "STI" shifters on it (they sit behind the shifters, toward the cross piece of the handlebar) and at this point is still mostly original. :thumbsup: The only non-stock items are the stem (had to shorten it), seat, rear derailleur (killed when trying to remove a stuck seatpost - don't ask) and the pink fenders that this bike wears. Frame is Tange Superset II, double butted, made in Japan. I have ordered a set of 700 x 40 Schwalbe smart sams for it and new thorn proof tubes. It will handle up to 700 x 45 tires - it came with a set that were Bianchi branded when I originally purchased the bike.

I think it will be spending the winter with knobbies on it and outdoors fun stuff going on.

I love this bike.  I have changed its configuration multiple times and it just keeps on rolling. The paint is starting to show some wear - at some point I would like to have it powder coated a nice black again. This is easily one of the best bikes I have ever had.


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

. . .


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

My Dean don't get no love at the races (maybe not here either) but I like it. I've already won twice on it and it matches my hair!

<img src = "https://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/Sizzle-Chest/DEAN.jpg" >

<img src = "https://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/Sizzle-Chest/Mdean.jpg" >


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

your leg muscles are cool..


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

stan lee said:


> I did notice that Dave but I couldn't make out what it says. I've kept everything I've pulled off in a box for safe keeping.


It was either "Casey" or "Kunselman" I can't remember now...


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## ktothetothe (Jun 11, 2007)

iamkeith said:


> The '97 Ibis catalog said "15mm of mud and fender room, even with 35c tires." So I've used up most of the mud clearance, to be sure. I use it as a trail bike though, and don't race cyclocross, so mud clearance isn't a huge issue to me. It seems like tires aren't always measured apples-to-apples, either. 44mm could be the tread dimension in this case, and be the casing diameter in others. As you can see, the tightest clearance condition is actually at the back of the seat tube, and not the stays. If it starts to be a problem (there's a pulley hiding under that ice), I may have to switch to a top pull derailleur - but so far so good.
> 
> View attachment 679695
> 
> ...


Very old thread - sorry to wake the dead - but just came across this as I am combing through the interwebs to get info on tire size for my circa '96 / '97 hakkalugi. Very intrigued by the fact that you fit 44's in yours. I measured my chainstays and it looks like there is only about 41mm +/- of clearance there which seems to be the limiting factor for tires. Maybe your frame is a year or two newer than mine so perhaps you have more width at the chainstays. Did / do you get any rubbing at the stays with those fatty 44's?


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

ktothetothe said:


> Very old thread - sorry to wake the dead - but just came across this as I am combing through the interwebs to get info on tire size for my circa '96 / '97 hakkalugi. Very intrigued by the fact that you fit 44's in yours. I measured my chainstays and it looks like there is only about 41mm +/- of clearance there which seems to be the limiting factor for tires. Maybe your frame is a year or two newer than mine so perhaps you have more width at the chainstays. Did / do you get any rubbing at the stays with those fatty 44's?


You reminded me that I've been wanting to dust that thing off and use it. Here are a couple of other shots. These particular 44mm tires measure about 42.5mm with a caliper, as mounted. Pretty good clearance at the chainstay as you can see, but more would be better. Not much grace if you happen to tweak the wheel while out riding.

This frame has the stainless steel (metax?) chainstays. Don't know if yours does, or if that could account for the difference - if there is one.

It's funny re-reading these old posts, and seeing how fast things change. Monster cross has sort of had it's 15 minutes, and now its all about "gravel grinding." There are some new and welcome tire options as a result, though, that help with all these old bikes. Not to derail the thread, but I just found an old post of mine the other day, where I'd postulated that it was only a matter of time until someone made a 3" 650b tire, that would fit a 29er.

On that note, You might look at the 41mm Surly Knard as another good option, in addition to the R&R discussed above:

Wheels | Parts and Accessories | Surly Bikes

Congrats on the build, and hope you have as much fun with it as I have mine!


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## ktothetothe (Jun 11, 2007)

iamkeith said:


> You reminded me that I've been wanting to dust that thing off and use it. Here are a couple of other shots. These particular 44mm tires measure about 42.5mm with a caliper, as mounted. Pretty good clearance at the chainstay as you can see, but more would be better. Not much grace if you happen to tweak the wheel while out riding.
> 
> This frame has the stainless steel (metax?) chainstays. Don't know if yours does, or if that could account for the difference - if there is one.
> 
> ...


Sweet, thanks for the reply! Yeah, mine doesn't have the ss chainstay. Maybe that does make a difference. I want as large a tire as I can get but I'm a bit nervous about having too little clearance as I really want to avoid tire rub. I'm going tubeless so not a ton of options. For now I'm going with the Kenda Slant 6 which are 32. Really wanted the WTB Cross Boss 35 but they were not available anywhere when I ordered. Next time...

Here is a pic of mine before some current upgrades including getting nobbies back on there so she's dirt worthy once again (she's been a commuter for way to long), wider bars, new stem, seatpost, bigger chainring, etc...









Here's the Slant 6, but not a good angle to see the clearance at the chainstay...


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## DIGITED (Jun 15, 2015)

I guess is my "what's up" post as a MTBR noob. Great thread (and forum in general)

I'm also part of the old Salsa crew also in SF  Here's my recently built new friend (sn: SM2220)









This one's for grab-n-go rides in my area (20-60 miles usually) with not much thought given to pavement or gravel 

- Ted



nightshade_rider said:


> Some really sweet bikes in this thread!
> 
> Here is my first CX build, inspired in no small part by BMC Mike's cross bike blogs.
> 
> ...


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

DIGITED said:


> I guess is my "what's up" post as a MTBR noob. Great thread (and forum in general)
> 
> I'm also part of the old Salsa crew also in SF  Here's my recently built new friend (sn: SM2220)
> 
> ...


Nice! Would be perfect with an old 1" threaded Salsa stem giving you the same rise/reach. Great job and it's nice to see these old Salsas.


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## DIGITED (Jun 15, 2015)

girlonbike said:


> Nice! Would be perfect with an old 1" threaded Salsa stem giving you the same rise/reach. Great job and it's nice to see these old Salsas.


Thx girlonbike! I always yearned for a Salsa when I worked in shops in the early 90's.

This one's very much an MTB hardtail for 700C as opposed to a euro-style Cx. The HA is 71.5, takes 50mm knobs (prefer 45mm Fire Crosses though for the loose gravel stuff we have in some areas), and thanks to the massive tire clearance, limits chainwheel size. I barely got a 34T middle (110BCD) to fit with a 116mm + 2mm drive-side spacer. It's a great candidate for a more modern compact though I'm not confident I could reduce the tread perceptibly with an outboard BB. Plus, this BB is an SKF so I have about 100,000 more miles to go before it needs replacement 

You're dead-on RE Salsa quill: I'm still sorting my position so I have not yet committed to a fleaBay hunt. That adapter is a proper Nitto too so it is both lighter and stiffer than your typical swaged Profile, Origin 8, etc. Plus, my Salsa quill stem stash is not where I think my sweet spot will be. That's 110/15 and I have 90/0, 90/15, and 130/0 Salsas. Dang! I do have a 100/-5 Syncros; period-correct, but it aint Moto (ergo worthless LOL).

Here's "Calabaza Caliente" with some Tinker 24Sevens (which SUCKED on the steep, loose gravel at Henry Coe a weeks ago IMO):


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## DIGITED (Jun 15, 2015)

RE classic Euro Cx geometry vs. the MTB-derived angles such as this 90's Salsa:

With the relative high BB and 'slight' upslope of the top tube, I'm think a mild re-rake or even a new custom fork could transform this bike for more distance road use. either approach would lower the BB within a rational range, slightly steepen the head angle, and increase rake. The drop in trail would be welcome to me outside of dedicated travel use.

Classic Euro already has the steeper HA and more rake so a re-rake/custom may be taking you too far in the trail reduction game...


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

DIGITED said:


> ..., takes 50mm knobs (prefer 45mm Fire Crosses though for the loose gravel stuff we have in some areas)...


That's great that the frame takes such wide tires! My biggest complaint for vintage CX is the limited tire sizes. Many frames are limited to 32 or maybe 35mm tires, which is fine for racing, but when riding trails a 38-45mm tire is a much nicer option.


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

DIGITED said:


> Here's "Calabaza Caliente" with some Tinker 24Sevens


Wow, Calabaza Caliente is one sweet bike (and a sweet name for the bike, although it makes me crave pumpkin pie with whipped cream on top).

I'm surprised we don't see more of these 1st gen La Cruz frames around, I think there were perhaps a couple hundred built.

One upgrade I did to my La Cruz was to replace the front cantilever brake with a Mini-Moto. There were major fork shudder problems while braking on dirt, due to the flexy fork and headset. The Mini-Moto totally resolved the issue, with the cable housing terminating on the brake rather than the headset hanger.









And I was really stoked to install these, early Modolo levers with embossed old logo Mavic branding.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Finally an update on this one from page 1,










Now fully restored as Cunningham cross bike #002.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Cunningham Expedition cross bike #003.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Those don't suck D.C.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

jeff said:


> Those don't suck D.C.


I rode the Expedition to Gold Hill today. Still an awesome bike.


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## ktothetothe (Jun 11, 2007)

DIGITED said:


> This one's very much an MTB hardtail for 700C as opposed to a euro-style Cx... takes 50mm knobs...
> 
> View attachment 996909


So dang jealous of your tire clearance. I love my old hakkalugi, but one thing that would be nice would be tires larger than 35c.


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## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

Those Cumminghams! Rare birds! Nice.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 26, 2006)

Slightly better pics of my Bontrager than on page 2


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

I need that bike, Henry


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## Woodpuppy (May 10, 2014)

Wow. Love the Bontrager and salsas!


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Henry Chinaski said:


> Slightly better pics of my Bontrager than on page 2


slightly....what are you waiting for? Get some pedals on that sweet thing.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 26, 2006)

girlonbike said:


> slightly....what are you waiting for? Get some pedals on that sweet thing.


I rode the crap out of the thing from 1987 to 2000. It went to Italy with me for 7 months, then rode all over the fire roads of Marin and was my SF commuter. Was my rain bike for a while in Seattle til I got a Surly with better fender clearance. Now it mostly just sits there and looks pretty.


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

*Waking up an old thread....*

Man, I just have a problem buying up old obscure bikes, this time an old cx bike. I was looking for a good steel framed bike for use on the trainer this coming winter and came across this 1989 Bianchi Axis. The owner had road tires on it which will be good for the trainer but now I am looking at a good set of cx tires! The bike rides great and the sun tour barcon setup is dead nuts accurate. I guess the older wider spaced indexing was likely easier to deal with.

Just thought I would share and wake up an old thread.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

We were teased, but a whole thread on vintage CX bikes without a single pic of an Alan. SHAME!


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

N10S said:


> Man, I just have a problem buying up old obscure bikes, this time an old cx bike. I was looking for a good steel framed bike for use on the trainer this coming winter and came across this 1989 Bianchi Axis. The owner had road tires on it which will be good for the trainer but now I am looking at a good set of cx tires! The bike rides great and the sun tour barcon setup is dead nuts accurate. I guess the older wider spaced indexing was likely easier to deal with.
> 
> Just thought I would share and wake up an old thread.


niice. Bianchi sure should know how to build a CX bike


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