# Classic rims; likes and dislikes



## Jeroen (Jan 12, 2004)

Let's talk about rims...










I just wondered what you guys have as favorite classic rims??

What rims did/do you like, for what reason and so on... More also; which one did you not like and why??

Bring up your thoughts!


----------



## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Jeroen said:


> Let's talk about rims...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't get my hands on enough Mavic M231 CD's...a great all around rim. Heavy enough to be strong, but not a complete tank. Great for my Tension Disc's!

I didn't care for some Sun Mistral's I had...the one set I had split as the seam. Some of my Araya RM17's didn't ware to good either.


----------



## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

I agree on the 231's. I still have a set that I commute on occasionally. They have held up very well for a long time.

I really disliked the set of Araya RM20's that my first real mountain bike came with. They were the first mass-produced welded rim. Instead of machining the sidewall to give a good even braking surface, the welds were rather crudely ground down. Some sets were supposed to be pretty good and there were some lemons. I had lemons. Anytime the brake pads hit the weld, they would grab harder all of a sudden. They were pretty strong for the time and I think they got better as for getting the welds ground down well, but the early ones sucked. 

cheers


----------



## apexspeed (Jul 6, 2004)

217s and 231s are all I have ever ridden. Love them both. I still use a set of the ti-dye 217s on my Wicked. Beautiful hoops.


doug


----------



## neveride (Feb 7, 2004)

*Heartily agree with the 217's*

Though I've had great luck with Mavic 117's as well. Really, can't say I've ever had bad luck with any mavic rim.


----------



## victorthewombat (Jan 12, 2004)

*What have you folks been smoking??? I want some...*



neveride said:


> Though I've had great luck with Mavic 117's as well. Really, can't say I've ever had bad luck with any mavic rim.


Quite simply old Mavics sucked...mainly because they did not have the stamping technology for their eyelets down and the friggin eyelets always came loose. This is a fact the SUP 217 was just about the worse. The Bontrager rims were also bad - mainly strength though great single season rim - plenty light 'tho and very trick along with Deetz rims.

Now, what was good Ritchey surprisingly made very good rims especially the early vantage...the Araya RM-20 was just about industructable, and of course my all time favorite the Trek Singletrack Matrix, best rim section, tires would not roll off of it and wheels using the Trek could be built up super strong...problem was they weighed what????????? 550 grams.

VTW


----------



## apexspeed (Jul 6, 2004)

victorthewombat said:


> ...the SUP 217 was just about the worse.


Worst? I have been running the same 2 sets of 217s since 1997 and they have never been retrued or needed to be heavily tuned. Collectively, they have more than trail 3,500 miles on them. Maybe you needed a better wheel builder.


----------



## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> I didn't care for some Sun Mistral's I had...the one set I had split as the seam. Some of my Araya RM17's didn't ware to good either.


I'd have to agree...

My only experience was with Sun rims was a set of CR7A rims and I can't say that I liked them much. The sidewalls were too narrow making pad adjustment tough.

I've always had good luck with Mavic and Bontrager rims. I've ridden mostly Bonty rims since '92 (BCRs, Mustangs, and Valiants) and have not had a bad rim to date.


----------



## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

*Araya RM-20*

My first set of RM-20's were in '86 IIRC and that rim kicks freakin' arse!!! Many bikes, many miles and many RM-20's without any problems riding with Wojick in the middle '80's to the early '90's when I moved to Flagstaff. Sub 400 gram rim in the middle '80's!!!! 
I went from RM-20's to 217 Ceramics and had more problems with the Mavics within the first 2 years than I ever had with the Arayas. The Mavics were built throught Wheelsmith.
The RM-25 was a wicked trials rim too with Fisher Fattracks 2.2"!!
Scoty


----------



## vdubbusrider (Jul 28, 2004)

I can say that anything mavic sucked. well, i should say they worked well until the eyelets pull through the rim. they still have that problem.

the ritchey rims were light and worked well but they were just too light weight and bent easily.

the rm-20's were indestructable and they get my vote. not that i liked them greatly but at least they held up


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

banks said:


> My first set of RM-20's were in '86 IIRC and that rim kicks freakin' arse!!! Many bikes, many miles and many RM-20's without any problems riding with Wojick in the middle '80's to the early '90's when I moved to Flagstaff. Sub 400 gram rim in the middle '80's!!!!
> I went from RM-20's to 217 Ceramics and had more problems with the Mavics within the first 2 years than I ever had with the Arayas. The Mavics were built throught Wheelsmith.
> The RM-25 was a wicked trials rim too with Fisher Fattracks 2.2"!!
> Scoty


Ya, the RM-20s were bomb proof but were definitely not sub 400 grams! More like sub 500. Even the rolled down MA-40s and MA-2s by Bontrager didnt break 400.

RM 20s were designed by Charlie Cunningham for the WTB fans out there.


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Ya, the RM-20s were bomb proof but were definitely not sub 400 grams! More like sub 500. Even the rolled down MA-40s and MA-2s by Bontrager didnt break 400.
> 
> RM 20s were designed by Charlie Cunningham for the WTB fans out there.


I had good luck with the Ritchey Vantage rims as well. Made by Ukai. The seem wasnt always the smoothest though but good, light rims. For light rims they were probably the best in my opinion.


----------



## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Ya, the RM-20s were bomb proof but were definitely not sub 400 grams! More like sub 500. Even the rolled down MA-40s and MA-2s by Bontrager didnt break 400.


The MA-2s were close. I have a pair of unused Bonty cut down MA-2s and they're both 412g. Not too bad. The later Bonty rims were lighter still.


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> The MA-2s were close. I have a pair of unused Bonty cut down MA-2s and they're both 412g. Not too bad. The later Bonty rims were lighter still.


The later Bontrager hoops youre talking about, are those the single wall Weinmans? Those look pretty light, but singlewall.

Another rim that comes to mind was the Specialized GX26 and GX23, I never used them personally but they were a cool rim that I never heard any complaints about...

Specialized used to be different. They seem kinda like a cheesy cookie cutter company nowadays, whereas in the early days they had a much better company image I think.


----------



## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> The later Bontrager hoops youre talking about, are those the single wall Weinmans? Those look pretty light, but singlewall.


Yeah, the Bonranger Red Label rims were the lightest. Made by Weinmans - single wall and no eyelets. The two that I have come in at 368 and 371 grams.


----------



## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

*Ritchey Vantage Pro or Campy Thor*

My '92 Attitude was built up with the Vantage pros, and I still have that wheelset. Even though I was a hamfisted rider back then, they held up great! Campy made some bomber rims. Those old Thor's were pretty tough. Had good luck using those for guys that were hard on equipment.


----------



## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

I always liked the rolled down MA2/40 rims. Never had a problem at all. In fact, I've still got several sets still true to this day. 

From a wheel builder's perspective, I always thought the Ritchey Vantage series built up nicely. The Trek SIngletrack Matrix rim was the rim we put under wheel abusers because they really were bomb proof.

The singlewall Bontragers did build up decent enough and are still on my Ibis. Personally, the fact that they are single wall doesn't bother me a whole lot since the overall design does exactly what a double wall does, but with material in the right place. 

The Specialized GX23 was a decent rim, but always seemed a bit "soft."

There is one other rim that I never had a problem with - the Saturae X22. I still have the original set (hanging in my garage right now) from my Salsa built onto original Specialized hubs that have been through hell and high water on a fully loaded cross country trip with off road ventures over Geyser Pass in the La Sals, over Kebler Pass into CB and over Pearl Pass into Aspen - all fully loaded (did I already say that?). Hanging next to this set of wheels is another Saturae X22 set laced to Hi-E hubs - my "race" wheels back in the day. The X22's are another single wall rim that was one of the first performance rims of the day. Narrow, light and durable.

Campy made some really good building rims too, but they had a funky sidewall shape that made it difficult to get a good brake-to-rim contact. 

Now-a-days, I like building wheels with WTB rims. Just seem to build up nicely.


----------



## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

231s generally a pretty good rim. tended to pull the eyelets out if you werent smooth tho.
the mavic MA40 was very tuff. shallow sidewall depth makes setting brake pads up a chore & fitting/ removing tyres can be quite stressful! dont ever try to fit a steelbead onza porc!

ta

scant


----------



## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*My Favs are Sun and Campy*

I don't really like anything Sun has put out since about 1995 but their late 80's and early 90's rims were excellent. Light and very stong in my experience. Although as others have mentioned in other threads mounting certain brands of tires is quite a feat even with tire levers sometimes. Mistral, Chinook, CRE16 rims have all served me well.

And I have had great luck with Campagnolo rims as well. The brake surface is a bit different but I haven't had a problem setting them up. My Favoorites are Mirox. The Stheno's are pretty light at around 390-405 depending on rim are are pretty neat looking since they're highly polished. The ultimate Campy ATB rim is the Alpha XL though. I believe this was a cut down road rim ala Bontrager/Mavics. Weight was claimed at 350g. The one I have has been built its entire life so I havent had a chance to verify that.

I've had mixed experiemces with Mavics over the years but I would have to say the rim I've had the best luck with from them is the 231 line.

Ritchey rims...also excellent in my experience.


----------



## floibex (Feb 7, 2004)

... ma40's my all time favourite followed by german made conbrio mt910, bontrager red labels, campy ateks and specialzed gx23. 

modern rims i prefer rigida xc420css (best ceramic rim made to men), unfortunaltely discontinued. follower named grizzly css, haven't tried yet.
the new dt swiss rims.

real bad experience made with mavic 217's cd and ceramic, rm 20's, sun xc°...

ciao
flo


----------



## bulC (Mar 12, 2004)

*Mavic 117*

my favorite mtb rim, durned near indestructible. art wester sent me a pair of 36ers when they first came out, for my tandem. rode them on the tandem for 6 or 8 years, rebuilt them for use as single bike rims (the rear on a Campy Record OR that I also got when it first came out that is still going fine) and I've been riding them frequently to this day. Wish I had a dozen more stashed in the garage.


----------



## Fuelish (Dec 19, 2003)

I still have my original Ritchey Vantage rims from '90 (7 spd hub) that have definitely withstood the test of mtbing time (they still get ridden occasionally on my backup beater) No complaints at all on the Vantages. Can't say as I've ever had a "bad" rim, necessarily (me thinkst my flyweightedness may have something to do with my good overall luck with wheels...hell, with equipment in general !!!)


----------



## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

Jeroen said:


> Let's talk about rims...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*If you're making a set...make me one too!*

Wood rims are AWESOME.

Too bad they are super expensive if you can find them.

I rode some on the road for a while. They have a very supple feel.


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Shayne said:


> Wood rims are AWESOME.
> 
> Too bad they are super expensive if you can find them.
> 
> I rode some on the road for a while. They have a very supple feel.


Watch out for termites and beavers.


----------



## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Oooo Beavers!*

Unfortunately dry rot or overtensioning have claimed more wooden rims than beavers have 

But that would be an interesting site to come home to.


----------



## Pottser (Jan 30, 2004)

I really liked the Matrix rims mentioned below. A rim I could use for a long time before getting problems. Not really a light weight, but solid. The first WTB Powerbeams (the Ukai-ones) around 1996/97 were really strong too. I still use those on my Ibis-tandem and several other bikes. Very strong for a 400 gram rim.


----------



## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Ya, the RM-20s were bomb proof but were definitely not sub 400 grams! More like sub 500.


Umm, just pulled off my NOS RM-20 36 hole silver and weighs 396grams. The RM-25 is the porker.


----------



## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

Matrix, hey? Eeesh... well for a while they were made by Weinman, but one of their plants exploded. Later on, when they were all being done at Treks Marshall plant, we had a really fun rim called the Mt Titan, which were screamin light at 333g, but were also screamin scary at 333g. Not a lot of material there, and cheap material at that. Actually the way rims were made for a while was pretty freaky. You'd oil up a little wedge shaped spline, jam one end of it in the bent coil of rim extrusion, and squeeze it in a belt hooked to a pneumatic piston to force the other end closed. Run the seam over a buffer so the brake pads don't rip em apart, and that was it. Build er up and start a'prayin...


----------



## neveride (Feb 7, 2004)

*Basement find*

Speaking of older Mavics, I found a Mavic Paris Dakar Rim, the CD anodized color, 32 hole is pretty new shape. Never used or built, just been kicking around. This was a wide guy, almost 30mm. Anyone ever run this? Its got the funky almost round sidewalls that were somewhat popular back in the day. I wonder how the braking surface was? If anyone is interested in a trade... 

My first aftermarket rims were Campy Atek's, which were super narrow and light, but I loathed the concave braking surface. I also rolled a 2.2 Dart during a race on this rim, the first and last time I ran a "wider" tire on a narrow rim. Didn't even blow the tube, which when unsheathed from the tire seemed bigger than it was supposed to to the lay person, and I earned a comment from a spectator, "You clearly put too much air in the tire". Hey, thanks. I then proceeded to wow the crowd (this was on a technical descent where most of the 10 or so fans at the race congregated) by reinstalling the tire in record time. I still finished at the back of the pack, despite the fastest tire install of my life.


----------



## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Speaking of seams*

Yes older rims came apart at the seam quite easily. I can't tell you how many late 80's-early 90's rims a friend and I seperated at the seem with only mild force. I mean come on...what are 2 highschool aged roadies going to do with a blustery fall weekend but destroy all our old wheels?!? I guess newer ones might still but I haven't experimented with that.


----------



## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

Sun cr17As, nice and light and came in awesome colors. The ones on my nuke are red and black ti dye. Granted the narrow section width does make pad set up a chore.
Also like M231s. 
Personally I love eyeleted rims and have never had trouble with them. Then again i am a lightweight.


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

banks said:


> Umm, just pulled off my NOS RM-20 36 hole silver and weighs 396grams. The RM-25 is the porker.


Woah, youve got yourself a special one! I think claimed weight from Araya was 485. To get one almost 100 grams lighter than claimed is weird. Or maybe Im just mixed up on which rim weighed what.  The extrusion shapes do wear out over time and the rims get heavier and heavier over time. Maybe you got the first rim out!


----------



## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

*Old School rims/hubs needed*

On the subject of old rims, I'm in need of a set of Araya 7X rims with Shimano high flange HB-MN72 hubs, nutted of course. These are all I need to finish up one of my old project bikes. You can email [email protected], thx


----------



## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Okay, here's my belated contribution:
My first "real" MTB rim was the Mavic 231. I only weighed 120lbs when I used to ride it, but I rode all the time back then. A pretty good rim, but the braking track seam was noticeable under heavy braking. My next rim was the WTB Powerbeam, which was pretty light, and it turned out, very stiff. The only thing was the brake track, which was pinned and very, very annoying when braking. My brother's Powerbeams had the same problem, but to a much lesser extent. My rear rim at the time was the somewhat heavier Speedmaster, which also was decent and seemed to have fewer brake track problems.
Later I got a Mavic 217 Ceramic, which had amazing braking power, no noticeable brake seam, was light, and looked cool. But it was much, much flimsier and flexier than the Powerbeam it had replaced. Also, the Ceramic brake track eventually wasn't what it had once been, and in fact turned as smooth as glass. Not cool for an $80 rim.
I also tried Rhyno Lites, but stopped using them after a number of very negative experiences both on my own and working in bike shops with Sun's piss-poor custimer service. I ride 521's now. Great rim, super solid, kinda chunky, but they last.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 8, 2004)

I have to agree with Shayne, I thought no one would mention the Sun rims, Chinook and CR16 (or CRE16). 

The RM20's were good too.


----------



## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

*In this order...*

1.M-231 
2.M-261
3.RM20


----------



## movingmountain (Jun 6, 2004)

*Rm 20*

I have two pairs of RM 20's that I have used on my '86 rigid Ibis for the last eighteen years. One set up for single speed the other for gears. Seems I got my moneys worth.


----------



## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

*Favorite rims are...*

Specialized Z-21 and B-23s,(can't remember right now) all with Wheelsmith spokes.The Specialized hoops have stood up the test of time and my former 240lb,lumpia eating arse! Now,my wheels are a giddy as Star Jones is in a Burger King.
Worst rims: Mavic 132s. Put them on my wife's bike.She's 95lbs. Good luck baby.


----------



## Yetifan (Mar 24, 2004)

I've got a pair of silver nos 32h 261 and nos 36h Sun rhyno if they are of use to anybody??

Ap.


----------



## -Anomie- (Jan 16, 2005)

They don't really count as "vintage", but the most bomb-proof wheels I've owned are built with Velocity Deep-V rims (from around '96). As far as older rims go, I always had good luck with 217's (although a lot of them had that damn rattle from the seam bridge breaking loose), but if I had to pick my favorite it would be the Mavic SSC's. They don't count though, road/tubular only  .


----------



## donk (Jan 28, 2004)

I had a mavic paris dakar. The only thing that comes to my mind is indestructible. I had it for nearly 8 years then gave the wheel to a local kid who could not afford anything. Braking, once the plastic wore off became ok, looked like crap though. Other thing about them HEAVY.

Still have the front wheel that came on my 1987 Ritchey, a no model number araya, on a deore hub. No noticable wear, still true. Hub might need a bit of work.

Liked mavic 231's and 217's. Had them on my bike until I wore through the side walls. Think it took 2-3 seasons.

No one has mentioned wolber rims. Had an AT18 as my front rim for nearly 12 years, until the sidewalls went. Tough, light and stayed true. Only problem with it was how difficult it was to change tires on. Very tight fit. Still have a AT 400 on the rear of the Brodie, it really need to be replaced as the walls are just about through.

The nuke proof wheels I have came with bontrager mustangs, still going strong on the front, the rear has been ditched because of the hub.

Also have riden sun 0 xc's, too thin of side wall for my liking. Wore them out in a season.

Currently riding the set of rims I like least of all of them. Sun 0XC TCB and Tomac edition. The coating gets really slippery when wet and I can't find a set of brake pads that don't squeal. Got them cheap though. Can't justify getting rid of them though as they have lots of life in them.

The crazy thing is that now that I am relatively light (175 lbs for 6'3), I am harder on my equipment then when I was heavier(210lbs).


----------



## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

ssmike said:


> The Specialized GX23 was a decent rim, but always seemed a bit "soft."
> 
> 
> > What about the S'lized BX23 rims?


----------



## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Woah, youve got yourself a special one! I think claimed weight from Araya was 485. To get one almost 100 grams lighter than claimed is weird. Or maybe Im just mixed up on which rim weighed what.  The extrusion shapes do wear out over time and the rims get heavier and heavier over time. Maybe you got the first rim out!


100 grams lighter because 3/4's of the sidewall is worn off


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

scooderdude said:


> ssmike said:
> 
> 
> > The Specialized GX23 was a decent rim, but always seemed a bit "soft."
> ...


----------



## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> scooderdude said:
> 
> 
> > ssmike said:
> ...


----------



## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

chinook


----------



## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

This is what I've ridden on my personal bikes over the years.

Araya 7X 1983
Araya RM20 1985 or 6
Araya RM-17 1990
Rolled Bonty MA-2's 1991
Weinmann Bonty BCX 1/2 1994
Mavic 230 1995 - current
Mavix X517 1999-current

My favorite of all of these is the Mavic 230....I like to look and have just never put a wrench to them and still run them to this day on my Psyclone. All the others were decent and held up well....but I did fold two RM-17 fronts on off camber descents when it was raining back in 1990. Of coarse most of the riding was done when I weighed around 165 so I guess I shouldn't have had any/many issues.


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Wow, old thread.

I have to say I really like the Mavic 217. I know there are some people who have posted that they have had problems with them, but I never have and ride them to this day. I think I must have 4 sets of wheel right now with 217s that get used pretty regularly and I have never had a problem with them. They have nice high sidewalls and I like how they are machined smooth.

I also loved RM20s and Ritchey Vantage Comps. I had a couple set of wheels built with each and they were pretty bomb proof.

I have a couple sets of wheel built up with Ritchey Rocks of various levels and like them pretty well, but the sidewall are kind of short making brake setup a bit annoying.

There was some mid range rim that somebody spec'ed on their bikes in the late 80s and they tacoed if you looked at them funny. I can't remember what it was though. And Wolber made a 700c rim that was spec'ed on several bikes that was prone to crack at the eyelets. We replace a bunch of those. I think they were spec'ed on Allezs or something.


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

ssmike said:


> Yeah, I keep forgetting the B and G thing.
> 
> And what ever the hell happened to built4speed?


...and the lack of a B or G (ie X23) is clear ano.


----------



## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

I used to love those Campy rims they were quirky but strong. Still using Bontrager BCX rims on my Wicked. As a mechanic I hated those early Trek/Matrix rims broke more tire levers on those things.


----------



## YETIFIED (May 4, 2005)

ssmike said:


> Fillet-brazed said:
> 
> 
> > scooderdude said:
> ...


----------



## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> ...and the lack of a B or G (ie X23) is clear ano.


And that would also explain the Saturae X22 (silver) and HX22 (Hard anodized).


----------



## Joe Steel (Dec 30, 2003)

chefmiguel said:


> As a mechanic I hated those early Trek/Matrix rims broke more tire levers on those things.


When I saw this thread resurface I had the same thought. Tough to get a tire mounted on those Matrix rims. Would hate to get a flat with one out on the trail.


----------



## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

Ukai EX-17's are _very_ hard to get the tires on and off. The green slime bubbling out of the inner tubes letting the air out should have been the first clue.

I wonder if thinner rim tape might help some....


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I rode a pair of Mavic 217's for years and loved them.


----------



## salsa-luma (Jun 8, 2007)

I've been riding Mavic 231 & 231CD and have zero complaint. Solid hopps in my opinion. BITD my 1989 Trek 950 came with Matrix Single tracks. I beat them as hard as I could and they never tweaked, in fact I still have the front wheel and it is true as day one the hub gave out first!


----------



## salsa-luma (Jun 8, 2007)

How about these hoops? I think these were an upgrade offered in the 1984 Ritchey catalog. Found a NOS set at a swap. Are they worth building up?


----------



## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

salsa-luma said:


> I've been riding Mavic 231 & 231CD


I too but come to think of it, don't know the difference between the two. I know that I've had both but never thought of them as different.


----------



## alexk (Sep 30, 2005)

IF52 said:


> Wow, old thread.
> 
> I have to say I really like the Mavic 217. I know there are some people who have posted that they have had problems with them, but I never have and ride them to this day. I think I must have 4 sets of wheel right now with 217s that get used pretty regularly and I have never had a problem with them. They have nice high sidewalls and I like how they are machined smooth.
> 
> ...


Second the old thread statement.

OK for me classic rims have been (in order from best to adequate):

1. WTB Powerbeams; all time favourite  , light and strong and a bloody disgrace that they're not made anymore. :cryin:

2. Bontrager BCX 1 & 2; very reliable & a decent sidewall to make brake pad adjustment quite simple. Light too and probably just a shade behind the Powerbeams.

3. Mavic 217; certainly dependable, slightly heavier (mainly noticeable on acceleration with the back wheel) but probably splitting hairs between the previous two, stayed true but the one on my rear wheel eventually split along the circumference of the rim due to brake wall wear. Front wheel that is radially laced is still running strong. Mavic 261CD has replaced the rear rim.

4. Mavic XC717; supposedly Mavic's top level XC rim but they seem to be heavier than the 217 rims and a lot heavier than the WTB Powerbeam rims. Still seem to take a decent level of abuse and stay true so maybe a little extra weight is a slight penalty to pay.

5. Araya RM-20; very dependable but heavy. Finishing of the join on the rim was a bit inconsistent. One rim is perfect but the other causes some pulsing when braking due to a high spot at the join. Still using a wheelset (F&R) laced to 730-732 series XT hubs that is approaching 17 years old with no major problems.

For evaluation in the next 1-2 years; WTB Laserbeams (still undecided as to what hub I should use to build the wheelset), Bontrager Valiants (standard for the front and asymmetric for the rear wheel) and lightly used Mavic 231s that need to be built into a wheel. Will probably end up using either 730-732 or 737-738 series XT hubs because they're so reliable but WTB grease guard hubs would be nice too.


----------



## one piece crank (Sep 29, 2008)

On my Wicked I ride RM-17's laced to WTB Greasgard hubs. I built these back in 1989 and they are still my favorite wheelset, and still handling rides some 20 years on. Next is a set of Ritchey Vantage Comp's (hard anno) with Suntour XC hubs which feel crazy light (by feel - I don't know what they weigh!). Somewhere I still have a set of rolled Bontrager MA40's (NOS), but I think they are 36 hole...

Tom P.


----------



## pint (Oct 6, 2008)

I'm still digging the Bontrager BCX red and blue labels I've been ridding since the early 90's. The original set I laced up is still going strong, but fortunately I have a couple sets of rims lying around. Nothing fancy, but light weight and seem to hold up nice.


----------



## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

salsa-luma said:


> How about these hoops? I think these were an upgrade offered in the 1984 Ritchey catalog. Found a NOS set at a swap. Are they worth building up?


Sure, but if you want a rider, RM20's would be better, IMO. IIRC, those rims require a special nipple washer and without the washers, they aren't much good to build up. I think Chuck down at PCC had those washers. I remember some kind of a bin/drawer with them. Or maybe I can't remember anything and the washer is just a basic nipple washer.


----------



## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

Wasn't the Bontrager BCR the 1 and 2 and not the BCX? I remember the name change, but don't remember why. I loved them both and wish I had stockpiled a bunch back then.

I've also got to share some love for the Araya RM series rims and their wonderful soft metal. You could go for a ride smack some rocks dent the rims and 10 minutes with some pliers and they're good as new.

Someone asked about the difference between the Mavic 231 and 231 CD. The CD stood for something French that means hard anodizing. The CDs were the problem rims with the sidewalls that blew out.


----------



## salsa-luma (Jun 8, 2007)

ssmike said:


> Sure, but if you want a rider, RM20's would be better, IMO. IIRC, those rims require a special nipple washer and without the washers, they aren't much good to build up. I think Chuck down at PCC had those washers. I remember some kind of a bin/drawer with them. Or maybe I can't remember anything and the washer is just a basic nipple washer.


Damn! Didn't realize the nipple situation. I think I have made up my mind as far as use.


----------



## Tubedriver (Sep 19, 2008)

I have had great luck with M231s and 217s. I have an old set of M230s that I put on wifeys bike, they seem light but not as tough as the 231/217s.


----------



## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

salsa-luma said:


> Damn! Didn't realize the nipple situation. I think I have made up my mind as far as use.


A good hardware store will have similar washers in brass which will work I believe. I haven't built those rims exactly, but I've built plenty similar. Try and find the long nipples too those might actually be harder.


----------



## pint (Oct 6, 2008)

themanmonkey said:


> Wasn't the Bontrager BCR the 1 and 2 and not the BCX? I remember the name change, but don't remember why. I loved them both and wish I had stockpiled a bunch back then.


Weren't the earlier ones BCR, and the later BCX? I just went and looked at mine the they are Weinmann/Bontrager BCX. The front is a red label and the rear is blue. They were from the 92 or 93.


----------



## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

Yea the BCR rims were only for 1 or 2 years before the BCX. They were really light if I remember the weights were like 380g for the BCR-1 and 410g for the BCR-2. The BCX rims went with the colored labels and I believe the weights were beefed up a bit.

Also the BCR rims had a grove on either side of the spoke holes and the BCX rims were smooth.

Back in those days I used to cut rim sections from every rim new and used I could get my hands on just for display purposes. Alas they all went into the recycling bin at some point, except for the Campy promotional rim section box. Sorry about the flash.


----------



## kokies (Aug 15, 2007)

I support WTB laserbeam and powerbeams. Its all about the I beam. Not the lightest but very strong.

For front hubs, specialized stouts are the way to go. can you say scraxle?


----------



## HungarianBarbarian (Jul 24, 2008)

Rims I hated:

1. Specialized GX23, they always bent.

2. Ritchey Vantage, they had thin sidewalls and always seemed to dent or flat spot.

Rims I liked: 

1. Sun CR18

2. Matrix


----------



## magnetosphere (May 23, 2007)

I can't believe I haven't seen any mention of Wolber rims. The AT-18 and the AT-20 are awesome rims. They are hard anno and super strong. I have been mobbing on those rims for quite some time.


----------



## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

Kokies I forgot about the beam rims. They are great just layed my last one to rest about 5 months ago. Like you said not the lightest but they were strong, easy to get a tire on I had a bunch of blemmish ones that we bought on closeout from WTB.


----------



## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

Mavic Oxygen M6. Big, fat & wide. 

Ok, heavy too. But tough!


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Contrary to many, I never felt that a wide rim added anything to the durability of a wheel... It does change tire characteristics though.


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2009)

I am riding Spec X23 in a polished silver..I think all the ano wore off. They clean up pretty nicely and they are real straight...haven't really hit anything hard w/them. I believe that these rims date to 1993 or so.

Some other rims I have ridden recently are Mavic 117 SUP Ceramic, awesome rim from about '95. My friends and I have run thru some Bontrager BCX and BCR (or whatever they are called) and they are just too light and delicate. I think that they weighed something like 390g. Well, it was too light to ride hard at 190 or 200 lbs. A 150 lb guy who rides light, sure.


----------



## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

Some vintage rim weights and spec's


----------



## whoarrior (Jan 10, 2005)

Mavic Rando M5 
Mavic 121


Campa Atek
Campa Stehno


----------



## Fly Rod (Mar 13, 2007)

I am glad I read this thread. I remembered that I had a pair of Vantage comps I liked way back when. I was wondering where they went and checked an old dusty Haro Extreme Comp in the shed. Cleaned them up and they are still in really good shape.

My experience with the M231's was mixed. I felt they had a good braking surface but were not durable. I did have some eyelets pull through.

I wish I could remember the race wheelset I had built up. Built on Chris Kings and Mavic xxx? That wheel set was light and lasted years without needing tuning!


----------



## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

i still have a RM 17 wheel that went thru 3 hubs.


----------



## alexk (Sep 30, 2005)

Thanks for the scan CRC. Nice to see some info there on the earlier rims. Do you have a date on the article?


----------



## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

alexk said:


> Thanks for the scan CRC. Nice to see some info there on the earlier rims. Do you have a date on the article?


I think it was from 88

I scanned it a while ago so don't remember for sure.


----------



## alexk (Sep 30, 2005)

crconsulting said:


> I think it was from 88
> 
> I scanned it a while ago so don't remember for sure.


Thanks for that. I was thinking it may have been pre-1990/1 given the lack of lighter Mavic rims. Even the Sun Chinook rims aren't listed along with the later Ritchey Vantage Comp and Vantage Expert rims. Was there a Vantage Pro model at all?

There was a nice stash of NOS Bontrager BCX-1 & 2 (green label so guessing 94 or 95) rims that just finished on Ebay for a pittance (US$32 for 6 rims). Anyone get it?


----------



## KrisKringle (Mar 17, 2011)

I have always liked Mavics. I love the 231 or 217. In fact I have raw unbuilt rims in 230 and 231 and even some sun cr18.


----------

