# Low_Riders Luxeon LED Light Buildup P1 (Heaps of Pics)



## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

*Luxeon LED Light Buildup P1 (A Few Pics...)*

Hi All,

As many of you know, I've been preaching the benefits of a "quality" LED lighting system on these boards for a while now, and so I thought that it was about time that I actually built my own system up. I thought that I would document my build so that I could give others a bit of an idea of firstly, what I was up to, and second, to give you a bit of an insight into LED lighting.

You will realise from previous posts like these here:

https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=852

https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=43588

that there is a huge difference between normal LED's, and the "Luxeon" LED's produced by Lumileds.

I started planning this project over a year ago, and had settled on three Luxeon 3 watt units, which I thought would give me plenty of light. I drew a few sketches of some heatsinks / housings and thought I was ready to go.

It was around this time that I found Eric at Nightlightning in New Zealand, and saw a photo of a prototype Luxeon powered light he was making called the "Endurenz". I promptly sent an email to Eric, asking every question about it that was possible under the sun. For some silly reason (great customer service I guess) he was dumb enough to reply to me, and we had just started an ongoing stream of emails that would last the better part of a year.

Eric's unit was indeed a great complete light, but the experimenter in me couldn't just buy a light and be done with it. Anyway, after a long time spent bouncing ideas off each other, I wound up with a box of bits from New Zealand hitting my doorstep a few weeks ago. I ended up with most of the bits from his DIY version of the Endurenz, minus his digital controller and a few other bits and pieces.

Anyway, on to Part One of the project 

The first step involved was to Lap the bottoms of the three Luxeons. This isn't necessary, but I decided it was worth while for the best thermal bond possible. These Luxeons do get warm, and need to be on a heatsink to operate properly. They were then joined with some tiny wire links into a triangular pattern. After a trial fit in the housing, I applied a thin layer of Arctic Silver 5 thermal compound to their backs, and bolted them in to the housing.





































To give you an idea of the size of things, the Luxeon stars themselves are 20mm in diameter, and the Endurenz housing is roughly 50mm by 60mm.

During my early investigation into Luxeons, I came across the idea of "optics", something that I'd never heard of before. Basically they're an alternative to reflectors, and are available in many different angles, beam configurations etc. I also came across Carclo optics, and after yet another "email attack" I was lucky enough to be sent a box full of samples. Unfortunately I haven't tried them in the Endurenz yet, but I already have another project for them.

With my Endurenz I used the optics that Eric uses in his lights, Fraen NX05's. Fraen is another top brand. After cleaning the optics to remove any finger prints, and cleaning the completed housing to remove any dust, I then dropped the optics in, and cleaned the lens up ready to push the lens cap on to finish the light off.



















Putting the lens cap on was probably the hardest step involved in building the light, a sit required heating the cap, and applying brute force, all while making sure that the optics didn't move out of alignment. Eric advises to apply a little adhesive to hold the optics still, but I decided not to in the end, just to make things easier if I ever experiment with different optics in the future. The lens cap holds them in place anyway.




























Taking photos of small objects with a poor quality digital camera is never easy, but when they're as reflective as this, it's a nightmare!! 

I then hooked it up to my power supply and other circuitry, fired it up, and instantly blinded myself!! This is one bright light  I gave up trying to take photos with the camera I had, and besides, I was having too much fun annoying the neighbours  I currently only have a 6 Volt 10 watt system to compare it to, and to be honest it doesn't compare, the Endurenz blows it out of the water. I'm guessing it would be comparable to a 25-30 watt halogen, but with a better colour temperature. Maybe not quite as bright as an average HID, but it is still a very powerful light.

One problem with many Luxeon powered lights is that they tend to have a very narrow beam, which isn't all that great if it is your primary light. The Endurenz fixes this by running the three stars together to create a single beam, which creates a very focussed light, but it has a great beam, partly due to the optic choice, and the lens cover. The light has a nice hotspot, which gently fades into a nice focussed beam.

For those who are interested, the Luxeons I used were SVAK bins, which means colour temperatures of around 6000K, and at 3 watts, around 70 lumens each. I'm driving them a little heavier, and so I'd expect close to 220-240 lumens all up. 

At this point I would like to thank these guys, who have helped me out during this project:

Eric at Nightlightning:
www.nightlightning.co.nz

Ian Bryant at Carclo Optics:
www.carclo-optics.com

Georges80 at the Candlepower Forums

And Itsdoable and Homebrew from here, who have inspired me and provided a great source of knowledge. 

Also check these links out for some more information:

www.lumileds.com

www.mtb-news.de (check out the forums/tech talk/electronics around the bike forum)

www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=

www.nightlightning.co.nz

www.exposurelights.com

www.solidlights.co.uk

Keep your eyes open for Part two, which will see the completion of the digital controller, Part three, the building of my new battery packs, and Part Four, when I finally hit the trail 

Until then,

Cheers, Dave.


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Pretty cool looking set up. And creative. LED lights were all over the place at Interbike this year, so I think you really are onto something here. How has you cost measured out compared to saaay a Standard Nightsun system? Oh, and what's your expected power source? I suppose I could go look in other posts, buy I'm lazy.


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

Impressive effort Low_Rider. The quality of the headlamp looks great. I would like to see some photos of the light some time. I might have to commission you to make me on in the future.

Are you going to use small LiIon batteries or something?

By the way these specs seem very impressive. Particularly the light temperature. My lupine Edison provides the same colour temp and it is spot on perfect for trail riding in a cold Tasmania Night. 


> For those who are interested, the Luxeons I used were SVAK bins, which means colour temperatures of around 6000K, and at 3 watts, around 70 lumens each. I'm driving them a little heavier, and so I'd expect close to 220-240 lumens all up.


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

First, the system is not my design - Eric at Nightligning takes credit for that!! 

I will be powering this light with a 13.2 volt, 4/3A 4500Ma NiMh pack with sanyo cells, providing I can get my hands on them cheap enough here in Australia. Running through a "Buck" regulator, this should give me between 4-7 hours of light, depending how much current I feed them.

(_You may not of heard of the terms buck/boost. A Boost regulator is one that takes a low voltage and, you guessed it, boosts the voltage to a higher voltage. A Buck regulator takes a high voltage in the input and outputs a lower voltage._)

As far as how much I've spent personally, I can't really say.... The main cost will be in the battery packs, as I plan to build a couple up. Eric has been really good to me, and I didn't buy his full light either, which has made things cheaper.

Have a look at Nightlightnings site, there are plenty of prices there, and it should be easy for you to convert to US dollars or whatever. Here in Australia for someone to buy the full light off him, they would be saving a fair bit in comparison to other lights of equal output. I know of people here that have spent close to $1000 on HID lighting gear which provides truck-loads of light, but I think it is just a bit overkill IMO. (Very, very expensive....Wouldn't knock one back though!! )

EDIT: Took a while to post this one and missed your post Trevor. Thanks for the comments, should finish it off within the next few weeks hopefully. A light like this as a helmet light would really compliment your HID. Choosing the right Luxeon Bins for the best colour match would be the key I reckon.

My parents think I'm mad building up a light seeing we're starting to get towards Summer here. I know better though, the last DIY light I did didn't get finished until the end of winter..... 

EDIT 2: I'll post some beam shots when the light is finished for sure  Actually I'll try and get a few up before then!! 

Cheers, Dave.


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

Low_Rider said:


> EDIT: Took a while to post this one and missed your post Trevor. Thanks for the comments, should finish it off within the next few weeks hopefully. A light like this as a helmet light would really compliment your HID. Choosing the right Luxeon Bins for the best colour match would be the key I reckon.
> 
> My parents think I'm mad building up a light seeing we're starting to get towards Summer here. I know better though, the last DIY light I did didn't get finished until the end of winter.....
> 
> ...


I was wondering why you were building the lights up now, but assumed you had some particularly crazy epics or something planned for summer time (16+hr rides I suppose to find a need for lights)

Looking forward to seeing the beam shots.


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## Biking Viking (Jan 12, 2004)

Trevor! said:


> ... crazy epics or something planned for summer time (16+hr rides I suppose to find a need for lights)


Not me. Not in the summer.


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## WOY (Jan 17, 2004)

Hey Low_rider regarding your batteries…. Are there any reason why you are going to use Sanyo? I know they are supposed to last the longest (read retain claimed capacity for more charges) however they are expensive. If they are not matched they are no superior to any rechargeable NiMh against reverse current as the pack run down. 

Since the 3W Stars only draw very little current why not use AAs which are very cheap compared to subC or 4/3 AAs and easy to get. You can use either generic brands or Sanyos, either case their internal resistance will easily cope with that sort of current draw. 

You can possibly make up two packs of 2.3Ah AA which will last as long as the 4.5Ah in runtime and possibility weight about the same. Then when you are only out to do a shorter ride all you need is to take one pack (eg in the 24hrs surly you will not want to carry close to a kg of battery that will last for 7hr for one lap?)

Also is there any reason why you are driving them in series? I though if you are to drive them in parallel you can simplify the battery. 

I have been meaning to get one of the 1 or 3W star to try on my road will see.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

Cool stuff. I have a couple of those LEDs and just got an email from luxeon on how they have upped the performance a little bit. Maybe they can get cheaper a little bit soon too ;-)

Those are definitely the next thing in lighting.


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

I'll start off with the Luxeons in series question. It's all to do with the regulation of the luxeons. If I were to run them in parrallel, their voltage draw would be equal, but they would be drawing different currents due to dicrepincies in the LED's internal resistance. This would mean that one of the luxeons could be brighter then the rest. 

However is series, they're all drawing the same current which is a lot easier to handle.

As you mentioned, the trade-off is that I need a higher voltage battery, and even more so seeing that I'm running it through a buck regulator.


On to battieries, and I'm still thinking about cells. Sanyo don't match their cells, but their production tolerances are supposed to be soo good that anything that isn't a resonable match is thrown out anyway. 

Internal resistance isn't a problem for me, I'll only be drawing 600-800ma at 13.2 volts (700-1000ma at the luxeons at 10.5 - 11.1 volts) from the pack, so thats not a problem at all. As for damaging cells with reverse current, I won't be letting my packs disharge anywhere near that far. I'm even going to run a cutout circuit to make sure.


BTW 11 4/3A cells will way about 650grams  Add the 150-ish lamp, and 150-ish controller and wiring, and it's lighter then just the battery of my old system!!


To be honest I would forget about a single 1 watt star, the three watt is the best way to go. I'd also have a good read of the datasheets on Lumileds site, and read all of itsdoable's posts in the homebrew forum (link above somewhere). It's not quite as simple as hooking a battery up to them and letting the go........ They need looking after thermally and electronically. Physically they're very robust (no filiment to break!!) but they need looking after as far as thermal and electrical operating conditions go.

Cheers, Dave.


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## Fast Eddy (Dec 30, 2003)

*Ebay*

There's a guy in HK that's selling 5w stars for $28 + shipping. How much did you pay?

With that housing, 3x5w emitters, proper columators and a flat 2.3ah AA pack, it's starting to look like a decent helmet light.

Unless it weighs half of an HID and runs for the same time at the same price I wouldn't call it a replacement though. The prices of the UK systems that LowRider posted in another thread are way up there.



lidarman said:


> Cool stuff. I have a couple of those LEDs and just got an email from luxeon on how they have upped the performance a little bit. Maybe they can get cheaper a little bit soon too ;-)
> 
> Those are definitely the next thing in lighting.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

Well, thats very cool! Nice job Low_Rider!

I've done a similar thing (as you may have read in Low_Rider's links), here are the 2 that I'm testing now:








The one on the left uses a mix of Fraen & NX05 optics, and one on the right uses the Fraen Tri-lens, which requires a longer housing. I currently have Carclo optics in the left one. I find the Fraen optics have some splochiness to them, where as the others are more uniform. The only thing from NightLighting is the housing, it is much nicer than my original crude square channel aluminium stock DIY version. The main difference from Low_Rider and NightLight's system is that I have stuffed the electronics inside the housing, so the only external connection is a battery. You can see the circuit board at the bottom of the left housing, it is a boost converter, which drives 0.9A through 3 luxeons in series from a 6V battery pack.

I don't have a picture of my dual - 5W version, but it has performance similar to USE's Exposure lights, only mine is 5X bigger (without the battery!) and looks like a big ugly brick mounted to the handlebars. I'll try to update with a picture later.

Here are some of the pre-made PWM current controlers that are available on the internet:








A boost version of the on on the left is inside the above 3X3W luxeon lights, the middle ones are on my 2x5W version. Current output is programmable or settable by changing the sense resistor.

To answer some questions:

The NightLighting 3x3W housing is very shallow and light, it makes a great helmet mount. Unfortunately I'm one of those that like my lights on the bar.

My 3x3W units are NOT as bright as a Niterider HID, but hold thier own and don't get over powered. Colour is a bit more neutral, but that can depend alot on LED batch. The batch number I have is in the middle of the lumens range, Luxeon lists LEDs that are 2X brighter than the ones I'm using.

5W Luxeon vary greatly from batch to batch, and the 'good' ones cost more. There can be a 4X difference in brightness from the worst to the best. Some have a very strong green cast.

A 3W luxeon draws ~1A, which is a fair bit of current. My setup consumes ~11W of power, so you need a decent battery. Because the Boost or Buck current controllers can handle a wide range of voltages, I can run the lights on a variety of power sources, NiMH, Gel, Li-Ion, Alkaline, etc... I even ran it off a Shimano Hub generator once...

Except for Nightlighting, the commercial units are very expensive, but I expect them to drop in price over time. One thing to look out for is how they handle the thermal issues, Luxeons need to be heatsinked properly. Some of the commercial ones are completely encased in plastic, and will not be able to dispose of the heat - which will greatly shorten the LED lifetime. From the InterBike pictures, you can see that L&M's 3W unit uses an Al bezel, which is probably the heat sink. BLT has a 3x3W unit (they appear to be overdriving them a bit at 4W each) but I have not had a close look at it yet. USE's Exposure units are all Al.

Currently 3W luxeons have something like a 15000hr lifetime, where as the 5W version have a 200hr lifetime. Thus my preference for the 3W versions.

Cheers, and all that!

Tom
________________________________________________________________________

Ademdum...

OK, for the record, here is my ugly 2x5W unit:








Due to different Luxeon batches, one side is dimmer with a greenish cast. It uses a 10deg optic and a 30 deg optic, individually switchable.

Also, FYI, here is my current Nightlighting unit with some Carclo optics:








I had to modify the front plate a bit to fit these optics as they are a bit smaller. The lower one is an eliptical 25x6deg optic, which gives some nice perifery light when bar mounted. I'd like to switch one of the optics for a 10deg for better distance performance. One of the nice things about this housing is that you can swap optics to get the desired beam pattern, which plays a big part in the performance of the bike light!

Also, I believe the Nightlighting housings will handle 3x5W luxeons, Eric & I have made several measurements on the thermal properties of the housing, and we both feel it will handle them, provided you don't leave them on inside a insulated plastic bag...  However, I don't think that is worth doing. If you overdirve the 3W luxeons to 4W, the certified lifetime of the LED is still much more than a 5W Luxeon, and with a high lumens batch, you will not realize much advantage with the additional cost. Ofcourse that may all change if they come out with a better 5W chip...


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

Edit: Re Ademdum...

Hey!! That "ugly" 5 watt setup isn't all that ugly at all!!   



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for posting Tom!! 

How's the tri-lense housing going?? I've already got another light planned with three three watters again, but with some of my spare eleptical optics - yeah, it will be a "crude one" but it should be nice. I also got a whole heap of clear and coloured optic "holders" which would be a nice touch. It'd be similar to your 4 - 1watt array.

Although I'm very happy with the bins I've got, it would be magic if I could get my hand on three three watt luxeons of the best bin....... It's near impossibe though, torch makers have enough trouble just getting one...... 

Fast Eddy - I'd just better point out that the thermal considerations of Luxeons are very important, and have a huge impact on the performance of a lighting system like this. I'm not too sure (you would have to contact Eric at Nightlightning) but I doubt the endurenz housing could handle the extra heat of the 5 watt luxeons. At the moment the three watters are the way to go. Three - three watt luxeons overun a bit at around 10-11 watts would still be way better then a pair of fives. I'm not sure what it is about them, but they just don't have the thermal qaulities of the lower wattage luxeons.

I should be posting some more photos in the not to far distant future...... more to come 

Cheers, Dave


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

Here are a few more photos..... As I mentioned earlier, the camera I'm using hasn't got any manual override, so it's useless for comparisons. To give you an idea, my desk was flodded with really bright sunshine when the shots of the light output were taken, and no shadow on my desk at all .The camera was going spastic when it saw the light from my luxeons........ 

I noticed in one shot that at an angle it picked up the three seperate optics. It doesn't look like that in real life, it just looks like a bright single beam. It's kinda cool to see how the optics work. To give you an idea, at nighttime it lights up my bedroom better then the 40 watt globe near my bead, and about equal with the 75 watt Osram globe on my ceiling, although the spread of light isn't as good (obviously - it's not designed to be)

After I was playing around with it the other night I went for a drive through town, and I couldn't work out why everyones headlights were soo yellow....... 

A mate has offered to let me borrow his quality digital camera when I need it for those beam shots, so things should be good. I'm going to wait until the light is finished though, becuase the controller will probabally produce a different output to my current power supply and regulator.





































Cheers, Dave


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

I had an email sent to me from a very interested "clinton" asking a few questions, so I thought I would post my reply here, as well as to his email address:

He wrote:



> Hey Glow, I was reading your awesome post about your lighting system
> you made and was wondering a couple of things....if you don't mind
> answering
> 
> ...


To which I replied:

1) I didn't design the housing, that was the work of Eric at
nightlightning. I would think that aligning the Stars would be a lot
easier then seperate emitters, and three - three watt luxeons already
seems like a good setup. The system Eric has developed uses three
simple hex-head bolts with insulating pads to hold them down. It's a
lot easier then bonding seperate emmiters in exactly the right spot.

2) I haven't decided, let alone built my packs yet. In one of my posts
I have gone into a bit more detail about my plans, but I'm still
undecided.

Actual runitime with a 4-5amp hour pack will be anywhere between 4-7
hours, depending how hard I drive the luxeons. Although it affects the
long-range distance a little, I have found only a small difference in
output between 700ma and 1 amp, and I think I can live with that.
Maybee. We'll see how it goes once I have ridden with it a few times.

(if you're interested, check out the "LED pro modders" program that is
posted at the candlepower forums, the link is in my fist post. You can
punch in all the information about the LED's regulator efficiency and
battery caacity/voltage and it will estimate a runtime.)

With the system that you're thinking about, are you thinking about
going Luxeon or halogen based??

You have obviously looked into LED's a bit. I would suggest
downloading the datasheets from lumileds homepage, and looking at the
homemade lighting system thread in the new products and innovations
forum for more information too. Itsdoable and I have a few posts
talking about the requirements of these things. It's not just as easy
as hooking them straight up to a battery.

Feel free to ask questions, fire away, I don't mind replying!! Thanks
for taking interest!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"New" news.......

I tried taking a few beamshots outside with my lower quality camera again, but it didn't produce anything of use. However, these inside shots have come out alright, although they don't really show the actual beam shape very well, because the light was in a bit of a corner..... These will have to do until I get it finished off. 

The camera was put into a manual override mode, and these photos haven't been retouched apart from resizing.










Total darkness.......










Just my bedroom light, a standard 75 watt Osram house globe.










And my Endurenz, driven at 1 amp.

Distance from the light to the blinds is roughly 3 meters, although the lower half of the beam is cut off due to the desk getting in the way. Outside, pointed at an object 10-15 meters away, the hotspot is about twice as big, and fades very gradually into a nice wide beam. I have no doubt that this light will be a very nice spot, but I also think that it will be great as a flood too. It seems to illuminate the surrounds very nicley, and provides a very nice flood of light.

Just for reference, I was also able to point this at a Pine tree that was roughly 30-40 meters away, and at least 5 storeys tall. It easily highlighted a 4-5m circle with a resonably bright light considering the distance. Very impressed!! 

I've also been working on a tiny little low voltage cut-out circuit, using SMT parts, to protect the battery packs I plan on using. Schematic and more photos to follow....

Cheers, Dave.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

Wowwwww...this seems like an interesting project. 

However, I think I'm going to take the easy way out and buy an HID light setup


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

Dave I am totally impressed by that little light - The quality is hard to believe for just a LED based system.


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

Thanks for the comments, macming, Trevor.

The powdercoat finish of the Endurenz is perfect, and very wear resistant. It's a shame I can't quite capture it on camera how I want to. I've already accidently stepped on it and tried to grind it into the pavers outside my house... I was close to tears until I realised it didn't have a mark on it!! 

I haven't done too much of late. Finished the design for my low battery cutout / warning circuit, and will be etching the boards this week I hope. The digital controller I'm using should be here within a couple of weeks, and then I should be away.

It is really hard to take photos of, but a mate has offered the use of his very expensive digital camera when I get it totally finished off. Hopefully I'll be able to get some better shots.

I have done a small ride of about 15-20 meters on it, with a very long extension cord and an even longer cable from my power supply....... my neighbours must think I'm mad..... (actually I think they already know.....) Can't really get a good feel for it obviously, but it gave me a rough idea....

The beam shots just don't do it justice.

Eric has been dong some more work to his site, and has update the Endurenz page, and has posted some great photos of some work he has done in a few shops in New zealand. Well worth a look. I'm not sure extactly what he has used to do this, although you can bet that they are luxeons of some sort.

http://www.nightlightning.co.nz/

http://www.nightlightning.co.nz/multisporters.htm

Cheers, Dave.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

This project does seem really interesting. If it is possible to keep the cost down, I think I could use around 4 setups in total between me and my friends. 

I'd like to have 2 light systems, one on my handlebar, and one helmet mount. I have no idea how many my friends want to have. I just remembered someone else mention the cost of a DIY system was about 200 dollars for LED or a halogen setup. I was just thinking I could get a HID lighting system for 300 dollars. One is HIDs are brighter, two is the system is designed to work. 

I may have some extra time over the summer and actually have sometime to make my own light system. This approache allows me to pick my own batteries. I like the idea of having a heavy battery with a LONG burn time (7 hours), and switching to a small, and light setup for 24 hours. 

What is the total cost so far for your setup? I'm just curious..

Thanks and keep up the good work!!!

Ming


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

Ming - Buying in bulk is a great idea to keep the costs down when building homemade systems.

I'm from Australia, so I'm not always exactly sure what your money is worth in comparison to AU dollars. However, $200 US is way to much to spend on any homebrew system, unless you really know what you're doing, and you're sure that you can achieve what you set out to do. 

For comparison, to buy a complete pre-built Endurenz, minus the battery and shipping, you would be paying less then that. As I mentioned earlier, I'd rather not say how much I'm spending, but the prices on Erics site should give you a rough idea, considering I'm building my own electronics, battery packs etc.

I really wouldn't recommend building a LED or HID system as your first DIY attempt without some serious reading and research. LED's are very fussy, and as mentioned through this post and in some of the links mentioned, they need to be run in very specific operating conditions as far as thermal management and power supplies go.

For the average user who isn't interesed in the extremely light-wheight unit and huge runtimes that LED lights offer, HID lights would be a better alternative. Yet again though, DIY HID lights are pretty rare, and a detailed knowledge is required to get such a system running. As HID lights function by creating an arc, they require sturdy power supplies, and careful configuration of ballasts to operate properly and safely. I haven't really had much experience with HID's but from memory the voltage of the arc in the actual globe can be between 30 - 250 volts...

As you mentioned, new HID systems can be purchased for $300 or so, and would be your best option. Buying a number of systems would drastically reduce the final outlay I'm sure. Do a search or check out the General Chat forum for heaps of HID related posts.

If you're still bent on a DIY system, I would have another solid read of this thread, and also check out this link to the Homemade Lighting Systems thread too.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=852

Thanks for taking an interest. 

Cheers, Dave.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

Low_Rider said:


> Ming - Buying in bulk is a great idea to keep the costs down when building homemade systems.
> 
> I'm from Australia, so I'm not always exactly sure what your money is worth in comparison to AU dollars. However, $200 US is way to much to spend on any homebrew system, unless you really know what you're doing, and you're sure that you can achieve what you set out to do.


I was looking at spending $300 US on a HID system, so $200 for a good, flexible solution is really not that bad.



Low_Rider said:


> For comparison, to buy a complete pre-built Endurenz, minus the battery and shipping, you would be paying less then that. As I mentioned earlier, I'd rather not say how much I'm spending, but the prices on Erics site should give you a rough idea, considering I'm building my own electronics, battery packs etc.
> 
> I really wouldn't recommend building a LED or HID system as your first DIY attempt without some serious reading and research. LED's are very fussy, and as mentioned through this post and in some of the links mentioned, they need to be run in very specific operating conditions as far as thermal management and power supplies go.


I wasn't going to build my own HID system from the research I did. They seem to be overly complex for the trouble. That's why if I do decide to use HID, I will just buy a set 



Low_Rider said:


> For the average user who isn't interesed in the extremely light-wheight unit and huge runtimes that LED lights offer, HID lights would be a better alternative. Yet again though, DIY HID lights are pretty rare, and a detailed knowledge is required to get such a system running. As HID lights function by creating an arc, they require sturdy power supplies, and careful configuration of ballasts to operate properly and safely. I haven't really had much experience with HID's but from memory the voltage of the arc in the actual globe can be between 30 - 250 volts...


I'm pretty sure HIDs run in voltages well over a thousand volts. It's in the range of 7000 - 9000 volts I'm pretty sure. High voltage, low amperage setup is not too bad on battery life either.

I have friends who are really good at electronics, one of them can fix motherboards and dead eletronics. In addition, I'm finishing off my 4th year in software engineering. That does not give me enough knowledge about electronics, but it does mean that I have very good problem solving skills, and do know how to read schmatics and understand the general prinicples of voltage laws...etc.

My final question is, since I really dont mind spending $300 US on an HID setup. Given a budget of $200, would a DIY system give me better light in terms of color temperature, and batter life? Weight is not my biggest concern, but I do not want to carry a 10 lb battery around if I dont have to. Also, isn't it always possible to match up my own batteries to a HID light?

If the DIY approache will give me a much better product for less cost, then I will take that route because it seems like I will need to spend a large amount of time to research, track down the parts required and test my design 

Thanks a lot

Ming


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

I've pretty sure I've spent <$200/unit so far, but I'm working in CDN$, and the exchange rate has been dopping. My estimate is that the lamp unit cost me ~100US for eveything, you still have to add a battery and charger.

Something to keep in mind: HID's are currently brighter and available as a complete unit with warrenttee.

DIY have no warrenttees (although you can fix them yourself) - and a rule of thumb is that ~1/2 or the price is the manufactures warrenttee cost.

Thus for an equivalent system, a DIY should run ~1/2 of the full MSRP of a complete commercial system at break even - personally I don't follow this rule because I get some masocistic enjoyment out of making and breaking my own lighting systems.

The main advantages of LED/Luxeon systems is:
- variable brightness without any change in colour, while maintaining full efficiency
- usually a more neutral, less blue light colour (wrt HIDs)
- As many on-off cycles as you want in a ride (HID bulb life is linked to # ignition cycles)
- depending on the current controller you use, you can run the system with a wide range of batteries without any change in brightness or efficiency. For instance, one of my units will run on any voltage from 4V~24V; using Gel, Alkaline, NiMH, NiCad, Li-ion, with the connector at any polarity, with the same brightness and similar efficiency - pretty much any old battery I have lying around can be plugged into it.

Plus whatever Low_Rider said....

Cheers,

Tom


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

Aaaahh....thanks for the reply. 

I think it probably will be better for me to design my own system. I probalby will enjoy it more that way 

Exams are coming up in a week, so I will look into the design and whatnot during my xmas break...

Where abouts in Canada are you from? I live in Hamilton, Ontario...

CHeers

Ming


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

macming said:


> .... Where abouts in Canada are you from? I live in Hamilton, Ontario...


Most interesting, I didn't pick up on _mac_ming. I'm in Hamilton as well, you may have seen my light on the rail line path south of McMaster campus, I commute by every day, and my ride home is in the dark now.... Infact I'm about to commute home now, but I'm planning on a longer trail loop through the Iroquois Heights conservation area, and it does not take me by Mac.

Cheers,

Tom


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

itsdoable said:


> A DIY should run ~1/2 of the full MSRP of a complete commercial system at break even - personally I don't follow this rule because I get some masocistic enjoyment out of making and breaking my own lighting systems.


  

Yeah, as long as there isn't too much breaking going on I'm quite happy to spend as much as I like on DIY stuff.  I must admit it took me a while to get around to buy the Endurenz, because although as far as complete lighting systems go it is geat value and highly competitve, I knew that through my own DIY tinkering, I would be spending more then a complete unit, and would be spending the same sort of money that could buy other so-called "brand-name" units.

Erics DIY Endurenz kit contains everything you need to put the light together though, so it is great value.

I'm happy that I went down the route that I did though. This project has been great fun so far. 

Macming - I think I can sense a hook up in the works!! It just proves how small the world really is  Good luck with your exams.

Cheers, Dave


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## menachite (Jan 12, 2004)

Riddle me this....

If you burn out an LED will the others continue to work?


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

menachite said:


> If you burn out an LED will the others continue to work?


That depends... on how they are wired (series or parralel) and the current control circuit you are using.

Basically, NO. If they are wired in series, and one of then shorts, then the others will work, if the current controller can handle the change in voltage drop. It you use a resistive current controler, they it'll probably blow up the other LEDs.However, a blown LED is usually an open circuit. If they are in parralel, then if you use a resistive current controler, they others will keep working, if you use a PWM current controler (more efficient) then the others will probably blow up. If you put a separate current controler on each LED, then you're fine.


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## garboui (Jul 16, 2004)

i built a single 5w luxeon led homebrew light for under $75CAD (includes glues, plugs, and thermal paste) excluding batteries. for a housing i used 2 one inch copper pipe caps soldered back to back. one holds the electronics and the other holds the light and reflector. since copper has beter thermal characteristics than aluminum as far as acting as a heatsink goes the two pipe caps provide ample cooling. and to mount the whole thing i used some reflector brackets which are suprisingly strong.(so far my reflector helmet nount held up to two solid hits from going aotk) the only downside with using copper is that it is a little heavier than an aluminum housing but if you dont mind the weight go for it!

for batteries sla is probably the cheapest way to go but http://www.batteryspace.com has some great deals on nimh batteries which will be much smaller and lighter then sla.

i am going to make a prototype 2x5w luxeon light made from hardware store materials and a fatman driver from taskled.com. i will post pics when i am done. i will also try and get a pic of my current one up for youre viewing pleasure.

even at $200 is a reasonable price considering blt has a 5w led system thet retails for $850cad


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

garboui said:


> i built a single 5w luxeon led homebrew light for under $75CAD (includes glues, plugs, and thermal paste) excluding batteries. for a housing i used 2 one inch copper pipe caps soldered back to back. one holds the electronics and the other holds the light and reflector. since copper has beter thermal characteristics than aluminum as far as acting as a heatsink goes the two pipe caps provide ample cooling. and to mount the whole thing i used some reflector brackets which are suprisingly strong.(so far my reflector helmet nount held up to two solid hits from going aotk) the only downside with using copper is that it is a little heavier than an aluminum housing but if you dont mind the weight go for it!
> 
> for batteries sla is probably the cheapest way to go but http://www.batteryspace.com has some great deals on nimh batteries which will be much smaller and lighter then sla.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you have a good system made for cheap! I'm leaning towards the 3W setup, I may use 3 or 5 of them in total though.

What sort of electronics do you have with your light? Also, please excuse my ignorance, what does SLA stand for? Is it any sort of gel system? My friend is using a small lead acid battery from radio shack that weighs about 7 - 10 lbs. I know its heavy, but he gets plenty of burn time.

If I go with the batteries from BatterySpace and say if I have my batteries packaged up, wouldn't it be difficult to recharge the batteries? Or can I get a premade casing for them? Just a thought 

I may carry a big hunky sealed acid battery for normal night riding and get some small NiMh that runs for about 1-2 hours for 24hrs...

Also, besides weight differences, what advantages will a Lithum ion battery offer over NiMh??

Thanks

Ming

PS...pics of your system would be great!! The idea of using copper as the housing as well as a heat sink is ingenious. My light system doesn't even have to be water proof because I dont ever ride when it's raining outside.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

I'm looking at these battery packs for regular riding

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1269

Do you think this setup is over kill for three 3W LED setup? I tried to workout the burn time for a 9 watt setup.....

13.2V * 9.5AH / 9 watts = 14 hours of burn time!!!

I think this might be a little bit overkill 

Also, how much more beneficial would it be if I go with a five 3W LED setup?? This battery pack would be suited perfectly that  Well would the five LED setup give me much more light than the three LED??

My mind is just wondering all over the place today since you got me worked up on my DIY sysmte...



Ming


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## garboui (Jul 16, 2004)

well right now i am using a a boost circuit which basically allows you to use a lower voltage than the led requires. (ex.my 5w led Vi=6.84v with a current rating of 700ma. what the boost chip does is it regulates the current to 700ma which ends up creating a voltage of 6.84v across the led. 6.84v=5w/700ma.) there is also a type of circuit called a buck circuit which will allow you to run a higher voltage that the Vi of the led and will regulate the current like the boost. www.taskled.com has a nice boost controller called the fatman. and it will run up to 3 lux 3's.which means if you decide to run 3 lux 3's you are able to run up to an 11.7 volt battery.i recommend a 10.8v pack in this case. but a 6v pack will work just as well, as 6v packs are alot easier to come by.

sla stands for sealed lead acid. which is the same sort of battery which youre friend is using. if you make a battery pack from batteryspace.com you can buy their universal smart charger which will charge youre packs no problem. they also sell shrink wrap to cover the battery back once they are soldered together(i recommend using hot glue to hold the cells together while soldering) or if you dont mind having an overnight charger look under their bike battery section and they sell pre mads 6v packs with a charger. i also beleive that they also have a 14.4v pack and charger combo if you were going to run a buck controller such as the nFlex which also has a built in dimming function.

a lithium ion battery will give you even more energy density over nimh which maeans a smaller pack for the same run time. lithium packs also have no memory unlike nimh which have been labled "no memory" they still have to be cycled now and then. allthough lithium batteries can be a pain in the ass when it comes to charging and assembling packs with more than two cells.(keep in mind that a lithium cell is 3.7v)


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## garboui (Jul 16, 2004)

macming said:


> I'm looking at these battery packs for regular riding
> 
> http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1269
> 
> ...


you will be looking at closer to 9.65 hours because the circuitry uset to power the les are only ~90% efficent pluse the lux 3's when run at 1000ma for maximum output at 3.9 volts are consuming 3.9watts each.

also look at the dimensions and weight of that battery. are you sure you want to be carrying something that big.

a 13.2 volt pack would be allright voltage wise to use a buck circuit. i recommend using the nFlex controller because then you are able to choose a lower power level to conserve battery when possible.
the 5 led system will work but i dont know of anyone that makes a controller that will support that kind of output voltage. in this case you would have to run two controllers one running 3 led's and the other running 2 led's. (rember the led have to be wired in series so the current remains constant but the voltage is additave.


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## garboui (Jul 16, 2004)

here are some pics of my lights.
the side of the light. a bottle cap was used to seal of the back end. the whole thing is sealed with epoxy.









here is the light with the reflector mount i was talking about. the bottom piece just straps to my helmet with a pump strap. it is just a reflector with the reflecting part broken off then heated and bent to fit my helmet.









here is the batterypack that i made from 4500mah c cells. it powers my bly halogens and my led light.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

garboui said:


> you will be looking at closer to 9.65 hours because the circuitry uset to power the les are only ~90% efficent pluse the lux 3's when run at 1000ma for maximum output at 3.9 volts are consuming 3.9watts each.
> 
> also look at the dimensions and weight of that battery. are you sure you want to be carrying something that big.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion  I realize that particular battery pack is overkill for my purposes. The battery on my 1st night was about that big, and it was definitely a hassle to haul it around. I may look into getting some AA packs because they're light. 3-4 hours of burn time is all I really need. I also plan to make a backup pack for 24hr events, so that one will be really small and light.

Ming :0


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## garboui (Jul 16, 2004)

macming said:


> Thanks for the suggestion  I realize that particular battery pack is overkill for my purposes. The battery on my 1st night was about that big, and it was definitely a hassle to haul it around. I may look into getting some AA packs because they're light. 3-4 hours of burn time is all I really need. I also plan to make a backup pack for 24hr events, so that one will be really small and light.
> 
> Ming :0


to get 3 hours with 3 lux 3's you will need a 3000mah batttery and for 4 hours you will need a 4000mah battery. for those run times i recommend using the 4/3 fat A size battery which will make a more compact and lighter battery compared to using c cells.


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## rick Barnes (Sep 4, 2005)

*Endurenz, just go get them,*

If you thinks the self builds are a little to complex, I did, then just but the comple set..
£200 inc 2Ah battery. 4 hrs of full power light and a charger. 

Has any one got suggestions for a self build using a single luxeon 3 or 5 to make a helmet mounted light for tight trails?  I've not tried anything like this before but think that now is the time if I can sort out a housing and heat sink.

The only thing I'm not so happy with is the handle bar mount. Has anyone made their own mount for this light unit (I have a combined light an dcontroller set up)

Rick.


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