# What do you do for endurance training?



## Daniel de la Garza (Sep 5, 2015)

I consider myself an amateur and I've never had formal training but recently I started riding on zones and completing certain goals according to my zones. I feel like I need lots of riding but don't have that much time to train. I ride twice a week a 3 hours ride on zone 2 and weekends I usually train technique on courses. 

How do you guys train for endurance rides? 

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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

If you are looking to build endurance consistency is the key. Set a goal of riding five times a week for 1 to 2hrs. Once you have hit that target then start adding length to one or two of the rides.

The best part is you can combine endurance training and technique training. The longer your endurance rides are the more climbing you have to do and the more climbing you do, the more descending you do.


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## Daniel de la Garza (Sep 5, 2015)

LMN said:


> If you are looking to build endurance consistency is the key. Set a goal of riding five times a week for 1 to 2hrs. Once you have hit that target then start adding length to one or two of the rides.
> 
> The best part is you can combine endurance training and technique training. The longer your endurance rides are the more climbing you have to do and the more climbing you do, the more descending you do.


So I would be aiming at zone 3 ride or 2 hours at zone 2 for five days instead of twice a week 3 hour zone 2 rides?

I really want to get faster and more stamina on my rides. I heard people saying that I should be doing longer rides that the ones I will compete. For example train with 50 mile rides if I'm doing a 35-40 miles race. Kind of like that.

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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

what do you guys suggest for endurance riding in terms of bike. XC, CX, Road? All the same? Anything that would be best? I just can't see myself riding mellow endurance like trails on my 6" travel bike! So I was entertaining the idea of getting a road or cx bike for a change and ride year round.


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## mtbks (Jun 14, 2011)

Personally I mix in my road bike and the big bike. I use the road bike for power intervals and sprints, and to ride year round on the trainer. The big bike is for techniques and to get used to the heavier feel, and obviously it's much more fun to descend the trail you just rode up haha.


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## choan (May 6, 2016)

running and interval training on foot is not an option ? 
Im in the same boat than op, I want to improve my endurance, but when I take my bike is to have fun in the mountain not monitoring precise training data.
I dont have a road bike and i hate road bike


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

Daniel de la Garza said:


> So I would be aiming at zone 3 ride or 2 hours at zone 2 for five days instead of twice a week 3 hour zone 2 rides?
> 
> I really want to get faster and more stamina on my rides. I heard people saying that I should be doing longer rides that the ones I will compete. For example train with 50 mile rides if I'm doing a 35-40 miles race. Kind of like that.
> 
> Enviado desde mi C6906 mediante Tapatalk





mfa81 said:


> what do you guys suggest for endurance riding in terms of bike. XC, CX, Road? All the same? Anything that would be best? I just can't see myself riding mellow endurance like trails on my 6" travel bike! So I was entertaining the idea of getting a road or cx bike for a change and ride year round.





choan said:


> running and interval training on foot is not an option ?
> Im in the same boat than op, I want to improve my endurance, but when I take my bike is to have fun in the mountain not monitoring precise training data.
> I dont have a road bike and i hate road bike


A couple of thoughts on this. Mixing in a few longer rides will really help your endurance. Think 3+ hours hopefully with 3,000'+ of climbing. Mix in some sprints during your shorter rides as well and you will be well on your way. Cross training like running helps for basic lung capacity.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

Swimming, pick up hockey or soccer etc. Doing something other than biking and using other muscles helps a lot more than people think. 

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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

i have started riding road this year after years of saying i never would. after just a few shorts months my pedal power and endurance are at places i didnt think i could ever be. anyone who doesnt have a good road bike should really get one


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## Daniel de la Garza (Sep 5, 2015)

obs08 said:


> i have started riding road this year after years of saying i never would. after just a few shorts months my pedal power and endurance are at places i didnt think i could ever be. anyone who doesnt have a good road bike should really get one


What kind of training were you doing or following with the road bike that made you improve your endurance that much?

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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

obs08 said:


> anyone who doesnt have a good road bike should really get one


let me quote this and send to my wife!


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

obs08 said:


> i have started riding road this year after years of saying i never would. after just a few shorts months my pedal power and endurance are at places i didnt think i could ever be. anyone who doesnt have a good road bike should really get one


I'm of the exact opinion. 3 years of constant MTB only and I started feeling like I was just hitting a wall. I'm now 400 miles in the last month on a Specialized Roubaix and, much to my surprise, I'm loving the result. I'm doing 25-35 mile rides, 2-3 times a week, then I throw in a 40 once a week, then I go do a couple of my normal mtb rides. Huge difference in my speed and climbs. My cardio is awesome and I feel like I can just keep on going when I'm done with what used to be my usual 10-15 mile 2500' mtb ride. It's so crazy that I now own spandex kit :bluefrown: and I signed up for a local Century in September. I'll see if my body lets me do it.


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

Oh My Sack! said:


> I'm of the exact opinion. 3 years of constant MTB only and I started feeling like I was just hitting a wall. I'm now 400 miles in the last month on a Specialized Roubaix and, much to my surprise, I'm loving the result. I'm doing 25-35 mile rides, 2-3 times a week, then I throw in a 40 once a week, then I go do a couple of my normal mtb rides. Huge difference in my speed and climbs. My cardio is awesome and I feel like I can just keep on going when I'm done with what used to be my usual 10-15 mile 2500' mtb ride. It's so crazy that I now own spandex kit :bluefrown: and I signed up for a local Century in September. I'll see if my body lets me do it.


same exact with me. i do 1 -2 rides a week on the road bike of 20-30 miles and it has paid of huge. i also own spandex and clips, just havent told my riding buddies that.

before i got the road bike i would supplement riding with weight training and elliptical or treadmill at the gym. im sure it didnt hurt me at all, but it didnt make near an impact as riding road did. my normal riding buddy who is generally a lot faster than me is now getting used to me buzzing his rear tire


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## choan (May 6, 2016)

well this week i'm gonna buy my first road bike. You have convinced me 

i'm probably going to buy a cannondale caad10 @800€ with shimano 105, seems to be a good deal, bike is 4 years old but seems mint condition !


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

105 Shimano is a good start. It's more than adequate. The important thing is *does the bike fit correctly?* It's a whole different game on a road bike and fit is critical but I think you're on the right track. You look at all the top pro XC riders and they're all riding huge miles on the road. Once you get going, you'll want to start working on endurance so get a heart rate monitor because it's not about full tilt workouts though that's part of it, too. Endurance training has you staying in your Endurance heart rate zone for extended efforts which allows for muscle to grow and transform for that purpose. Interval training is there, as well as steady state training, all pieces of the puzzle to keep you in the saddle for great lengths and able to 'dig deep' for the big efforts and fast recovery.

One of things I have been shocked by since road training is how quickly I now recover from intense efforts on the road bike but especially as it relates to mtn bike. I'm beginning to put out longer efforts at higher intensities and just backing out of threshold power has my heart rate dumping quickly and having the gas in the tank to do it again in short order. This road thing has been more fun from that aspect then I expected. Be ready to be hooked on both disciplines.


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## joevdenne (Jun 2, 2015)

Can you use your MTB with slicks and get the same effect? I hate the feel of a road bike. I 'd rather get a 2nd set of rims with slick tires. Will this work? I know it won't be as fast as a road bike. But, I don't care about that, really.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

joevdenne said:


> Can you use your MTB with slicks and get the same effect? I hate the feel of a road bike. I 'd rather get a 2nd set of rims with slick tires. Will this work? I know it won't be as fast as a road bike. But, I don't care about that, really.


Road bikes will allow you to tune your output just a bit more than a mountain bike. I'm not a fan either but when I'm riding my Hightower on the road I constantly wish I had at the least a gravel grinder or cyclo bike.

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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

How's the saying go? "Mountain bikers who don't also ride road are slow. Roadies that don't also mountain bike are dix". Kinda true.


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## legitposter (Feb 16, 2015)

Road riding helped me as well but from a mental aspect. As someone who never rode dirt bikes and didn't start mountain biking until 32 years old, the concept of speed on two wheels was terrifying. After doing poorly in enduro races I started road riding. The speed quickly became a normal muscle memory thing and it helped my enduro race results immediately. And I wasn't burning through brake pads!


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## Klainmeister (Apr 14, 2012)

Get a single speed.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I am interested in this thread too. 
Does training on trainer increase endurance?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Picard said:


> I am interested in this thread too.
> Does training on trainer increase endurance?


Not any more than doing the same wattage/duration outside.

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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

I have a road bike but most of my road miles are on a fixed gear, nothing like a 3+ hour ride of constant pedaling.


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## Extrave (Jun 3, 2017)

This thread is interesting, I want to learn endurance rides.


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## notso (Jan 22, 2015)

Picard said:


> I am interested in this thread too.
> Does training on trainer increase endurance?


It certainly does help. Depending on your local roads, it can be as effective or WAY more effective. On the trainer, you don't get any "coasting". I think I read somewhere that you could get somewhere around 1.5 times the amount of work per unit time on the trainer vs. most people's road riding conditions. It's also much easier to really nail intervals on the trainer.
I personally think it also has to help the mental game because riding the "road to nowhere" in the basement is SO BORING...
Personally, I can never make it over 1.5 hrs on the trainer. That's just my absolute limit.


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## mtb_phd (Jun 28, 2017)

I'd agree on the consistency thing. If you only have a few days to train though, I'd definitely mix in some efforts around your threshold. Your threshold is going to be the upper limit of your aerobic ability, which is important because the more aerobically fit you are, the quicker you can recover from those nasty sprint efforts within the stages!

It's a common question, and I recently wrote an article about why you have to be fit for gravity racing. Might find that helpful. There's also one about how to pace in enduro, which is also pretty important


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## RadBartTaylor (Dec 1, 2004)

Keep in mind training should be cyclical (no pun intended). Longer slow rides are typically reserved for off-season, while the shorter high intensity efforts should be done leading up to the season itself. A 4 hour ride isn't going to do much good (besides make you tired) done a week before a race....while a all out interval isn't much good done 5 months before the season.


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## ButtersNZ (Jan 15, 2014)

mtb_phd said:


> I'd agree on the consistency thing. If you only have a few days to train though, I'd definitely mix in some efforts around your threshold. Your threshold is going to be the upper limit of your aerobic ability, which is important because the more aerobically fit you are, the quicker you can recover from those nasty sprint efforts within the stages!
> 
> It's a common question, and I recently wrote an article about why you have to be fit for gravity racing. Might find that helpful. There's also one about how to pace in enduro, which is also pretty important


That was extremely useful, thanks.

I've read a few of your articles now and they're really easy to follow. Do you have any advice for someone who can only get on the bike a few times a week (3x 1-2 hour rides, up fire-roads and then down DH trails) but wants to ride strongly over 1-2 day mtb enduro races?

There is a local event in November with 1500 metres of climbing and 3000 metres of timed descent over the two days. I would really appreciate some info!


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## EricTheDood (Sep 22, 2017)

ButtersNZ said:


> Do you have any advice for someone who can only get on the bike a few times a week (3x 1-2 hour rides, up fire-roads and then down DH trails) but wants to ride strongly over 1-2 day mtb enduro races?


There are ways to train efficiently, but I've never seen any real gains at just 3-6 hours a week. YMMV.


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## mtb_phd (Jun 28, 2017)

ButtersNZ said:


> That was extremely useful, thanks.
> 
> I've read a few of your articles now and they're really easy to follow. Do you have any advice for someone who can only get on the bike a few times a week (3x 1-2 hour rides, up fire-roads and then down DH trails) but wants to ride strongly over 1-2 day mtb enduro races?
> 
> There is a local event in November with 1500 metres of climbing and 3000 metres of timed descent over the two days. I would really appreciate some info!


Hmm, must change my notification settings....

Thanks for the feedback. You can definitely make gains with 3 rides/week and I could go on forever with anecdotes!

I suppose you'll have to define what 'strongly' means to yourself and set a goal from there. Enduro is basically two things: skill and fitness. Assuming skill isn't your limiter (though for most of us it could use some specific work, especially [ahem] in the braking department), you could could probably benefit most from increasing your fitness. Since you don't have the time to do long rides, interval sessions will be the most efficient. These can look lots of different ways- long, moderate efforts with relatively short recoveries; short, intense ones with relatively longer recoveries; a mixture; the opposite; etc. The benefit of doing an interval session in place of a group ride now and again is that we can structure the ride to allow recovery between hard efforts and ensure the next effort is where it's supposed to be


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Drink beer ;-P

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## ButtersNZ (Jan 15, 2014)

mtb_phd said:


> Hmm, must change my notification settings....
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. You can definitely make gains with 3 rides/week and I could go on forever with anecdotes!
> 
> I suppose you'll have to define what 'strongly' means to yourself and set a goal from there. Enduro is basically two things: skill and fitness. Assuming skill isn't your limiter (though for most of us it could use some specific work, especially [ahem] in the braking department), you could could probably benefit most from increasing your fitness. Since you don't have the time to do long rides, interval sessions will be the most efficient. These can look lots of different ways- long, moderate efforts with relatively short recoveries; short, intense ones with relatively longer recoveries; a mixture; the opposite; etc. The benefit of doing an interval session in place of a group ride now and again is that we can structure the ride to allow recovery between hard efforts and ensure the next effort is where it's supposed to be


Thanks, I appreciate the advice! 
The race is next Saturday-Sunday. I've managed to average 4 rides/week, 10km-ish per ride and my fitness has improved a lot (PB's on all the climbs!). I know the two days are going to be hugely challenging though, since the two times I've tried to approximate race pace on a pedally 6km trail I've cramped up in my inner quad muscle. I'll have to take it easy and just focus on finishing the event this year. Next year I'll get in more training, longer rides and maybe I can try keep up with some of the faster guys


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

Are you training for "Endurance" Racing? or "Enduro" racing. 
Two different disciplines. 

I have done many endurance races and 1 enduro. The effort is VERY different. 


Endurance racing is about moderate to high effort for hours on end. 

Enduro racing is about MAX efforts for 5 to 30 minutes repeated a few times with period of rest/low effort riding. 

The tap different muscles and fitness efforts. It one thing to crank out 150 bpm all day as compared to 190 pbm for short pushes. Don't forget in enduro you also have concentration factor. Even if you are pedaling 35 watts in enduro stage you are still concentrating hard on you bike handling and that raises heart rate. Most of the time in endurance racing you are using the downhills to rest and recover. Not so with enduro.


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## ButtersNZ (Jan 15, 2014)

JoePAz said:


> Are you training for "Endurance" Racing? or "Enduro" racing.
> Two different disciplines.
> 
> I have done many endurance races and 1 enduro. The effort is VERY different.
> ...


If that is directed to me, I am racing an enduro event. Only need to go fast on the downs! I rode 35km of shuttled DH trails in a day recently without dying. It's the effect of the climbs I'm worried about. To help with that I've put a lot of work into nutrition - have lost 10kg in the last 4 months, and have a solid plan for the race.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

ButtersNZ said:


> If that is directed to me, I am racing an enduro event. Only need to go fast on the downs! I rode 35km of shuttled DH trails in a day recently without dying. It's the effect of the climbs I'm worried about. To help with that I've put a lot of work into nutrition - have lost 10kg in the last 4 months, and have a solid plan for the race.


My enduro was 2 days. Shuttle the big climb on day 1 with shorter climb for the last two stages. Day 2 had a 8 mile climb with 2000 feet elevation gain before the first stage. Pretty easy really, but alot of the enduro type around me were dreading it. I casually pedaled up and was fresh all day. Even on the 2nd transit climb section. For me the enduro distances and climbing are easy. Easy because I have endurance racing background. What is hard is going 100% max effort for such a short distance as an enduro stage. Even short 90 min XC races require measured power effort over 90 min or may 60 min. That is different power output for 5 -20 minutes. I felt like was not able to push as hard in those short sections as the guys more familiar with the format. Not that I was slow, but I rarely ever push that hard downhill including pedaling hard every downhill.

If you want fitness for transits is more and issue of two things. 1) go slow so as not fatigue, but stay in time limit. So don't push hard only waste energy where it does not count, 2) If you are worried about the time cut then work on longer weekend rides to simulate the long transit climbs. In the end you don't need fast transits, but efficient transits.


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## ButtersNZ (Jan 15, 2014)

That's reassuring and good practical advice. Thanks. I really will be focusing on conserving energy and aiming to spread effort over the whole day. Last year the two days had combined unassisted climbing of 3600m and covered 63km distance on the bike. Wish me luck


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## ButtersNZ (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks for the help everyone. The race was this weekend. 

It started each day with an 800m shuttle, in total covered an additional 3000m of pedalled climbs (untimed) leaving 4600m of descents (if I've worked that out right). I took my time on the climbs and focused everything on the DH. I did all the carb loading days prior, had solid race day nutrition, and stretched between stages. I didn't cramp up and placed 9th in the 30-39yo men's category. I managed a couple of 7th places on tougher stages so couldn't be happier


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## slimphatty (Sep 9, 2011)

I race cat 2 xc races for my endurance in enduro. I try and mimic my rides to the up coming race. If it's a 4 hour race then I want to practice a few 4 hour "race" simulated rides a few weeks before the race. I'll throw intervals at different areas of my rides. Some at the beginning, some the middle or the end or some at the beginning and end. I always try and change my rides so my body doesn't adapt to a certain type of ride. I'll also mess with cadence. I'll do some intervals at high cadence intervals while others at lower cadences like 60 or 70.


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## toodles (Oct 14, 2004)

ButtersNZ said:


> Thanks for the help everyone. The race was this weekend.
> 
> It started each day with an 800m shuttle, covered an additional 3000m of pedalled climbs (untimed) leaving 4600m of descents (if I've worked that out right). I took my time on the climbs and focused everything on the DH. I did all the carb loading days prior, had solid race day nutrition, and stretched between stages. I didn't cramp up and placed 9th in the 30-39yo men's category. I managed a couple of 7th places on tougher stages so couldn't be happier


Was that the Nelson Enduro? Geez those a big days.

I'm training now for two Trans Enduros next year. I'm honestly more concerned with the liasons than the stages!


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## ButtersNZ (Jan 15, 2014)

Yeah mate that's the one! Those values are for both days combined btw. The Trans enduro sounds like a beast. Five days in the saddle ?! The liaisons will be a killer. My advice is to walk the climbs when you can get away with it - worked for me haha


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## toodles (Oct 14, 2004)

ButtersNZ said:


> Yeah mate that's the one! Those values are for both days combined btw. The Trans enduro sounds like a beast. Five days in the saddle ?! The liaisons will be a killer. My advice is to walk the climbs when you can get away with it - worked for me haha


Ah sweet, the pics from Nelson made that look like a great event. Are you going to apply for the NZ Enduro as well?

I'm actually focussing my training at the moment on building endurance for the liasons, rather than for the stages. Aiming to try and do as much elevation as possible in my normal rides just to get "climb fit". Even doing hike-a-bike training as well, to get the calves used to pushing up steepish inclines. I know it will be hard going, but I think it will be worth it.


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## ButtersNZ (Jan 15, 2014)

Sounds like a solid plan to me. I can only comment from my recent experience but if I could have done one thing more, it would have been longer rides to build endurance. I only did a single day of riding that was equivalent to a race day and it really drove home the limitations of my body. A few short rides 3-4 times a week did not cut it.

I have no plans for the NZ enduro - am a family man and even having two days on the bike was fortunate! I'll compete in the Topgun enduro in Jan though - possibly also the DH if I play my cards right haha.

All the best with the training!


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## chiva (Oct 13, 2010)

A few years ago when I was racing and much faster than I am now, I trained on avg. year round 12.5 hrs/week. Most of that training was road riding. Out of my 6 rides per week, Usually 5 were on the road bike. I trained with power meter, intervals, structured training. Fast group rides. Saturday was either 5 hrs, 100 miles and 7-8K vert on road bike or 5.5 hrs, 28 miles, 8K vert on the XC mountain bike I raced both road and mountain XC at the time. I had a pretty decent watts/kg at the time which I directly attribute to all my training on the road. Its all about TITS. Time In The Saddle. The more time you train, the faster you will be. If I was racing against someone training only half the time I was, there was just no way he could ever get close to me. Put in the work (if you have the time) and reap the benefits.


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