# Phil Wood vs. Chris King vs. I9



## mhk (Dec 31, 2006)

For a dream SS wheelset--any info is nice, but it would be great to hear from those of you who have ridden more than one of the above brands for a significant length of time. I've done some research, but tend to hear from those who have ridden just one of the three vs. lesser hubs. Thanks


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

Well, what's important to you? Do you ride in a lot of gunk, or just hardpack? A Phil Wood hub is high quality, easy to maintain, and coupled with a WI freewheel probably the best sealed hub. This is what I would use for riding in all sorts of conditions. If a freehub is more in your desires, check out the King vs I9 thread.


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## Rockin (Apr 29, 2004)

If you plan on changing gearing depending on the ride, go with a freehub/cog style. I hate changing freewheels.


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## madcap (May 26, 2007)

Profile hubs are really nice, too.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Like Schmucker said, first figure out whether you want freehub or freewheel.

Personally, I hope to never own another freewheel. I went with King and it is great. Makes a lot of racket, though. I have plenty of King rear hubs on various bikes (gearies) but they never bothered me until I put one on my SS. Singlespeeds have the potential to be silent, the King rear hub is anything but.

My King hub doesn't require much attention but is very easy to service whenever it needs it.

Don't have an I9 wheel so I can't say anything about them... not even whether they're noisy.

--Sparty


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## ss34x18 (Sep 4, 2004)

I9 are sooo easy to rebuild. I tear them apart about every 4 months. Clean and regrease both hubs 30 mins tops. Chris kings are WAY louder. Honestly you cant go wrong with either of the three.


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## Mattyd (Dec 21, 2005)

I have I9s and really like them, but they are loud. Engagement is great though. 

I also have a ENO hub, but unfortunately don't have the WI freewheels (I have crappy ACS claws). If I were looking at a new SS wheel set, I wouldn't be looking at one with a freewheel. As mentioned above by Sparticus, freewheels are a bich to change. My recommendation is to go with the I9 or the Kings. 

Good luck.


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## xJAHx (Oct 28, 2006)

I agree with the others: determine if you would like a freewheel or a freehub/cog. I came from a BMX and track background, so I never considered a freehub/cog setup. I have the below wheelset on my Wolfhound, and could not be more pleased with the Phil Woods / WI ENO freewheel. Phil Wood has great customer service and replacing their sealed bearings costs only a few dollars. I have more miles on an old track bike with Woods that eats salty winter roads. Changing freewheels is simple, but make certain to first coat the threads with anti-seize and use a 3 foot steel pipe for leverage when removing.










That being said, I recently built a SS King wheelset for my Moots Mooto-X winter beater. The decision was not because I thought that the freehub/cog would hold up better to the winter weather (if anything, the Woods would be better for this), but I needed a 24mm TA for the front (Maverick fork) and found it easier for identical spoke lengths to build the set with matching King hubs.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

*This reminds me...........*

King's freehub has proved less than ideal for winter use if temps where you live generally get much below freezing. I know of several instances when friends of mine riding King hubs found their hub freewheeling while spinning their cranks in either direction.

I believe King sells a special grease (not as thick) specifically for use during sub-freezing conditions.

--Sparty


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## Supersinglespeeder (Oct 27, 2005)

Kings, the rear I have had for three years and rebuilt myself the front is newer. No problems.


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## Rockin (Apr 29, 2004)

*Another one*

You could also look at the Hope Pro II hubs. I have about 500 miles on my set so far. They are loud though. You can use them instead of a bike bell.


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## kerilou (Jun 15, 2005)

DT Swiss 240s I've run these hubs on my Dean for 3 years with no issues whatsoever and they are quieter than the Kings. I'm in the process of putting a new build together and will run Phil's on this,they look sweet and I'm sure they'll have no issues either. I've run both freewheel and freehub and personally like them both equal.


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## ss34x18 (Sep 4, 2004)

I9 are also interchangeable. With the front hub you can go between, 9mm QR, 20mm thru, 24mm thru( for maverick) or even 25mm thru( for the new specialized fork.) Not sure if that is important to you. it was one of the selling points for me. each different axle is about 40 dollars.


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## eyefloater (Apr 3, 2006)

Can anyone post the weight of an I9 hubset (singlespeed, QR front and rear) with the regular XC spokes? I've never seen a firm number listed for their stuff and the weight ranges on the I9 site are really vague.


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## azjonboy (Dec 21, 2006)

My I9 SS wheelset with Flow rims weigh 1770 grams. My King geared hub with Arches weighed 1810 grams. My DT 240 SS with Arches weigh 1650.

You can't go wrong with I9. King or DT. When you get to this level, they are all good, just a little different. Most of it depends on riding style, weight and terrain.


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## Johnny Chicken Bones (Jul 13, 2005)

It was posted above already but I'll second the support for DT 240's.
They are fantastic. Light, durable, easy to rebuild, and best of all, no need to rebuild.
I've had several sets of Kings and eventually grew weary of the BUZZ. Add to that weariness the need to maintain them. Bearing preload, chain drag (less of a big deal on a SS).
The only draw back to the 240s is the lack of (I refuse to use the B word) flair? Flash? Pizazz? Hell I don't know they just look boreing. I'm dreaming on a new 29 Ti SS and have wondered about sending the 240s somewhere to be polished. Always love those polished hubs.


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## jimbo (Jan 6, 2004)

Why this myth that freewheels are hard to change? I've never had any trouble, and I don't even use a breaker bar. I just use a longish adjustable wrench. One thing that may help is tightening the freewheel the same way, rather than using pedal pressure to put it on. 

I have a WI freewheel and I LOVE it. It's my first (a Xmas present) and I'll never own a cheapie again. I like f/w hubs personally, and my Phil is really nice. I've also owned Paul and they're nice as well. The disadvantage of the Phil is the weight. The WI is pretty and light, but I haven't dropped the coin on one yet.


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## ferday (Jan 15, 2004)

> Why this myth that freewheels are hard to change?


because it's true (for some anyways)

i've had trouble with every freewheel i install. i use a snipe, wd-40, and heat.... my next step is to use my vice, and clamp the teeth...which always works, but destroys the freewheel.

i'll never, ever use a freewheel again (by choice anyways). i'm glad you like yours, the WI stuff is pretty nice looking for sure.

and to the OP...i'm a King whore, they are sweet hubs. the I9's are nice...but the couple that i've heard are louder than my kings by a fair amount. the kings are loud enough on the otherwise stealth SS.


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## mafia6 (Sep 30, 2005)

Johnny Chicken Bones said:


> It was posted above already but I'll second the support for DT 240's.
> They are fantastic. Light, durable, easy to rebuild, and best of all, no need to rebuild.
> I've had several sets of Kings and eventually grew weary of the BUZZ. Add to that weariness the need to maintain them. Bearing preload, chain drag (less of a big deal on a SS).
> The only draw back to the 240s is the lack of (I refuse to use the B word) flair? Flash? Pizazz? Hell I don't know they just look boreing. I'm dreaming on a new 29 Ti SS and have wondered about sending the 240s somewhere to be polished. Always love those polished hubs.


i will third the dt240s. fantastic hubs. :thumbsup:


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## bozizle (Aug 25, 2004)

*I agree*



xJAHx said:


> I agree with the others: determine if you would like a freewheel or a freehub/cog. I came from a BMX and track background, so I never considered a freehub/cog setup. I have the below wheelset on my Wolfhound, and could not be more pleased with the Phil Woods / WI ENO freewheel. Phil Wood has great customer service and replacing their sealed bearings costs only a few dollars. I have more miles on an old track bike with Woods that eats salty winter roads. Changing freewheels is simple, but make certain to first coat the threads with anti-seize and use a 3 foot steel pipe for leverage when removing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have 3 pairs of Phil Wood wheels now with their custom spokes and can't find one negative thing to say...one pair has been on my SS 29er for 3yrs and tons of miles horrible weather and 24 hr races and they role as smooth as the set I got 4 months ago.


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## HHL (Nov 24, 2004)

*flipflop*

As one poster noted, the Phil is heavier, but I would think it makes up for it in pure, unadulterated, sexy, low-friction spinning. I have a Phil flipflop hub, so i get a gear change without changing gears or chains: 18/20 WI freewheels.


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## slowrider (May 15, 2004)

*King noise?*

I've found that the King buzz varies a bunch depending on how liberal you are with the lube; more lube less buzz. With the right amount of hub lube the Kings are fairly quiet; at least if you're comparing them to Hadleys (I love my Hadleys) or some of the Hope hubs.
I personally plan on building a set of Hadley SS wheels next, they roll great, I've done no work on mine in the 2 years I've owned them and the loud "CLICK"ing hub makes using a bell unnecessary 
How many points of engagement do the 240s have? I know I'll never buy another hub with less than Hadleys. I've recently been riding a set of Mavic hubs and I thought there was something wrong with them because of the delay when I started pedaling. I had the same opinion of Shimano and WTB hubs a few years ago and now the Kings and Hadleys on my bikes have me spoiled.


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## FoShizzle (Jan 18, 2004)

have ridden all of them in some form, though not King in SS version. For a 29er SS, cuz I buy into the myth/fact that I9 wheels make for a stiffer overall wheel for a given weight (have 2 sets of I9 29er wheels and 1 26er version) and for a 29er thats a BIG plus......though I LOVE Phil Woods and frankly, prefer freewheels. I would flip a coin between the Phils and I9s but as others have said, all are great and we are talking pluses versus minuses when comparing with all being great on the average


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## HHL (Nov 24, 2004)

*Phil*

One other thing on the PW flipflop: dishless.


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

ferday said:


> because it's true (for some anyways)
> 
> i've had trouble with every freewheel i install. i use a snipe, wd-40, and heat.... my next step is to use my vice, and clamp the teeth...which always works, but destroys the freewheel.


Use anti-sieze before you install. I have had no problems with mine except for the one time I got confused and kept trying to take it off the wrong way.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

I like how light and quiet the Dt 240s are but the low engagement prevents me from putting one on my bike. I think it's the equivalent of 18 engagement ponts. Even 36 seem slow but once you get past 60 or so, the difference is negligible and they feel great.

If they increased the engagment of the DTs, I'd be all over that hub. I hear great things about Phil Wood but again, the engagement factor keeps me away. I have been spoiled by Hadleys and Kings. I don't like using my Hope anymore so I'm putting them on my gf's HT. 

If engagement wasn't important to me, I'd love to use the DTs and Phils.


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## Dirt_Diggler (Jun 7, 2006)

Flyer said:


> If engagement wasn't important to me, I'd love to use the DTs and Phils.


uhhh? the phil hubs are thread on, so engagement has only to do with your freewheel. engagement shouldn't be an issue with something like this or the Eno from white industries


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## quaffimodo (May 25, 2004)

I've got Kings on a couple of SS bikes. They actually require a fair amount of maintenance ridden in wet conditions, but that's my only gripe, and not much of one at that. Everything else is as advertised, and the buzz doesn't annoy me at all.


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## single1x1 (Mar 23, 2005)

*freewheel spanner tool...anyone...*



ferday said:


> because it's true (for some anyways)
> 
> i've had trouble with every freewheel i install. i use a snipe, wd-40, and heat.... my next step is to use my vice, and clamp the teeth...which always works, but destroys the freewheel.
> 
> ...


 I use and have often praised the ACS freewheel spanner tool as one of the best bike tools, makes freewheel changing a snap, as least as fast as a freehub, though I do sometimes need to hit the tool with a rubber mallet but it usualy breaks free with 1-3 decent wacks.
I just recieved my new lighter rear wheel for my SS kelly cross racing bike, I went with the Paul hub in silver with openpro rims and double butted spokes. I have always really like the phil hubs, but I wanted lighter weight and the phils weigh a little more then the surly FF hub on my hevier cross wheel, I also considered the WI eno without the eccentric, but the paul is a little lighter and about $20cheaper, and $50or more cheaper and much lighter then the phil hub. I also was fine with a single sidded FW hub, since I can always use my surly/ma3 wheel if I want to go fixed.
The silver finish on the paul is a little on the dull side, not super polish like the WI or phil, which are shinier and would match the finish on my ultegra front hub better. Why people would get black or colored WI or Phil hubs, is beyond me, when their polish is so nice.
Only one ride...today on the new paul hub, but it is really nice so far, I've heard mosty good about the paul hubs The bike is very fast, as a 18.6 lb steel SS cross race bike should be. I'll be changing out my WI 18t FW for my WI17t fW soon.
Kings and DT's are nice, I have kings and op wheelset for when the geared cross bike goes for road only rides when I want to go FAST, but I think they are overpriced, especially in a SS application. I had my paul wheel built with double butted spokes and a open pro rim for less then the cost of a rear king SS hub, heck I couldn've bought the wheel and a WI freewheel for less then the cost of a king SS rear hub. Also paul, and WI hubs, and the WI FW are also made in USA, as well.


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## eyefloater (Apr 3, 2006)

single1x1 said:


> I just recieved my new lighter rear wheel for my SS kelly cross racing bike, I went with the Paul hub in silver with openpro rims and double butted spokes.


Hey now, don't be shy. _Feel free_ to post a pic or seven of that Kelly (I couldn't afford custom at the time, but he would have been my choice as well for a custom singlespeed cx bike).


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## Meat Foot (Jan 14, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> I know of several instances when friends of mine riding King hubs found their hub freewheeling while spinning their cranks in either direction.


This happend with a FW I had once on a couple rides. Makes you stand up out of the saddle real gentle and untrusting like.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Sparticles said:


> King's freehub has proved less than ideal for winter use if temps where you live generally get much below freezing. I know of several instances when friends of mine riding King hubs found their hub freewheeling while spinning their cranks in either direction.
> 
> I believe King sells a special grease (not as thick) specifically for use during sub-freezing conditions.


Yep, it's called Castrol GTX. It's in the Chris King section of your nearest auto parts retailer. Works a champ and intensifies the angry bee.



Meat Foot said:


> This happend with a FW I had once on a couple rides. Makes you stand up out of the saddle real gentle and untrusting like.


That's the best. ACS Freewheel perchance? I got yer message...YAY! I don't think I'll be down thither any time soon unless I shirk off some responsibilities and get down to the ACM (unlikely) I'll give you a ring tomorrow to discuss.


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## single1x1 (Mar 23, 2005)

*try this*



eyefloater said:


> Hey now, don't be shy. _Feel free_ to post a pic or seven of that Kelly (I couldn't afford custom at the time, but he would have been my choice as well for a custom singlespeed cx bike).


 Http://stevenbisig.exposuremanager.com/p/1292007_seattle_cyclocross_series_kelly_creek/_dsc489331 
That's a event photo of the seattle cyclocross final this year and me on the Kelly. Sorry it's not the best photo of the bike, but I live in dial up word and my camera is just a 35MM, don't really know how to down load my own photo's if I had a digital camera. In this photo I hadn't gotten my new rear wheel yet and was still ridding on my surly and ma3 rim but I had gotten my newer front wheel which is a ultegera and open pro wheel, nicer and lighter then the LX and ma3 front wheel I was runnning for several years, it needs new cone nuts from all the rain and muddy racing it's had. I'm not sure how to make the link into a photo on this page, try if you would like, and here is one more
Http://stevenbisig.exposuremanager.com/p/1292007_seattle_cyclocross_series_kelly_creek/_dsc48634
latter Adam


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## eyefloater (Apr 3, 2006)




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## Meat Foot (Jan 14, 2004)

smudge said:


> ACS Freewheel perchance?


Ding ding ding!! We have a wiener!!



smudge said:


> I don't think I'll be down thither any time soon unless I shirk off some responsibilities and get down to the ACM (unlikely).


Booooooooooo! I sseem to have gotten ill. I am 50/50.


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## nickcapriotti (Jan 23, 2006)

If you use the King hubs, make sure you really like the color that you get because they will be with yo for life. They are totally bombproof in my experience. The I9 hubs are slightly quicker to engage. The bottom line is that you cant really go wrong with either set of hubs.


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