# Review of the Spawn Cycles Banshee (16" wheeled bike)



## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

A couple of months ago, I posted a question on this forum about trying to find a 16" wheeled bike for my at the time 3 year old daughter, that had a free-wheel and hand brakes. I thought I researched everything, but someone on that post recommended me to look at the Spawn Cycles Banshee (2012 Spawn Cycles Banshee 16" Bike - Spawn Cycles - The World's Best Kids' Bikes!). It was everything that I wanted spec wise (aluminum frame, free-wheel, v-brakes and lightweight), and delivered it was less than $400.

I had originally bought a Specialized Hotrock 16" for her a year before, and even though she was progressing fast with the bike, it was limiting her true potential. So I bought the only type of brakes that fit on it (U-brakes), and they were terrible even though I adjusted them as intended. So I had a bike that weighed almost 23 pounds, had crappy brakes, still had the crutch coaster brakes and had too big of gearing for her and an inefficient drivetrain. She weighs 37 pounds, so that is like my 200 pound self pedaling a 124 pound bike. And I now had spent around $300 for this.

Now with the Banshee, it weighs around 16 pounds, an almost one third reduction in weight, and a lower gearing, she cranks up hills that she had to walk before. The bike has decent components on it, and I don't see anything that would be considered lightweight and after many crashes, it is proven to be durable. The only change that I would make is changing out the tires, as they seem to be more suited for pavement than dirt. The drivetrain is efficient (meaning that if I spin up the wheel and then let go of the crank, the rear Spesh wheel stops spinning in 5 wheel revs, where the Banshee spins for at least 10 times longer), and it is amazing the night and day difference between her climbing ability. It took her several rides to get past the involuntary response for her to pedal backwards when she is scared, but she is really coming to her own now with the v-brakes. The brakes are plenty strong, and I don't see any reason why kids should be ever using coaster brakes.

But now with a good 50 miles and 20 rides on the Banshee, she went from crying when I said we weren't going to take her Specialized bike to our Moab trip, to now telling me that I can sell it now, because she doesn't like the Specialized bike anymore.

I know a lot of people are doing a bunch of mods to make Hotrocks a lot nicer, and spending much more than this bike costs. I was going to go down that street, but I'm glad I found this. And another part I like is that this isn't done by some huge company like most kids bikes are, but a small company based out of Canada. Designed and built by a dad who got tired of his son riding crappy bikes, kind of like the rest of us.

If anyone is interested, here is her at the Trailside Bike Park in Park City, UT, I wish I could have muted out me, so please turn some loud music up instead. She just turned 4 a couple of weeks ago, and I look forward to kicking my butt in a few years:

Addz in the Trailside Bike Park - YouTube

PM me if you still think Specialized is king, and you are interested in a white Specialized Hotrock 16" with front and rear hand brakes.


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## madsedan (Aug 4, 2010)

I'm having a hard enough time justifying $200 for a used Hardrock 20" for my son about to turn 6, no way I would have paid $350 for a 16" bike 2 years ago, you sir are a baller, props to you


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

I'm also lucky enough to have a 1.5 year old son, so now it comes down to $200 per kid for the bike. Everybody's situation is different, and if I can ride with my daughter all the way to the park, instead of having to get off my bike and push her up the hills, that is priceless to me. And to see how excited she is when she gets to the top of a hill that she never climbed before, that is priceless too. We probably ride 6 days a week, so price per ride is pretty cheap in the long run. And maybe I am a baller, as the after-market rear shock on my Niner WFO cost more than her complete bike.


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## veelz (Jan 12, 2004)

The vid was cool. You sound like every other dad following their kid, no worries. A baller straps the strider bike to the backpack before running course... you sir are a baller. Careful, or the smaller one will be hucking that bike his sis is on.


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

Thanks Veelz. My son was riding the pump track before this on his Strider and was tearing it up. But I don't think he is quite ready for the flow track, especially with the cheezy plastic small diameter wheels, because there is no way he could get up the front side of the tabletops. Having the GoPro on my helmet really makes the tabletops look small, but you can see how it is jerking the front end of my bike around, even with a 29" wheel.

You should see us when we ride singletrack around our house. My son will be on the steerer tube mounted iBert seat, my daughter in a trailer bike, and then their two bikes strapped to my pack on the uphills, but then all is good when we get to the top and they can ride down. But nothing like adding 130 pounds of weight to make the local hills harder.


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## bikes&berries (Jun 20, 2012)

Just a little resistance training. Too cool!

On the Banshee, we don't have one, but I sure wish they were around a few years ago when I dropped $300 on a Pitboss. Pitboss is a great bike expect the rear handed brake leaves something to be desired. 


I've been to the UK and the majority of the younger kids bikes their have hand brakes and not coaster brakes. We got to use a 16" big box store brand that the inlaws had picked up for about $30 used. It had plasticy hand brakes but they were easy enough for my 4 year old to use and the bike came in under 20#. 

Now my youngest is more than ready to move from a balance bike to a pedal bike. However he has low muscle tone and can't figure out the coaster brake on the hotrock. I am working on getting the pitboss ready for him. The brake it came with he didn't have the strength for, but I got an Avid 7 lever and new brake and now he has some control of the braking. His cycling and CONFIDENCE has taken off now that he can stop a bit. Next up brazed on bosses on the front fork for a V-brake. 

Really it shouldn't be so hard to get a decent kids bike (and it's not on the other side of the pond). Glad to see one company has stepped up.


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

Do you have any idea how much the Pitboss weighs? That was the bike that I was about ready to buy before I found the Banshee. But the deal killer was it having no front brake and no bosses for Vs. I remember when I installed Vs from cantis back 20 years ago, and the enormous difference in power, probably close to the Vs to hydro disks that I have now. Why it took engineers so long to develop Vs is unknown to me.

The only argument that I have seen for the benefits of coaster brakes is that kids don't have enough hand strength to handle big downhills. My daughter is strong, but no freak of nature, and I am always asking her on big downhills if her hands hurt afterwards or if she was braking as hard as she could. And both answers are always no. So maybe that is true when you have crappy U-brakes or cantis, but with Vs, I'm pretty sure most average kids can do it. So someone please shed some light on why companies that know 10,000x more than I do about bikes (like Specialized), would put coasters on kids bikes. Is it cost savings? It definitely isn't efficiency or weight savings I would assume, and if coaster brakes are so great, why not have them on adult bikes.

And my parting thought. Regarding some thinking these bikes are expensive. I paid $260 for my Specialized Hotrock 16" with tax (couldn't find anything used) and about $40 for the brakes including shipping. So for $300, I got what I described above. So with the Banshee, I paid $400, and lost 6 pounds of bike. Maybe everyone on this forum aren't the hard core bikers on the various other forums on MTBR, but I think most would pay $100 to lose 6 pounds on their bikes. I've seen some people pay $200 for titanium bolt replacement kits, and that may only take 100 grams off the total weight.


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## bikes&berries (Jun 20, 2012)

The Pitboss weighs between 15 and 15.5#. I changed out the seat from a hard plastic bmx seat to a padded bmx fmf.

The whole kids don't have the strength for hand brakes argument is nonsense in my opinion. The only problem is not having a large selection of powerful brake levers for little hands. I do also have a Islabike Beinn 20 that the grandparents brought over from UK last year in a suitcase during their visit. When I tried out my youngest on the Islabike (which is too big for him so I held onto him) and said "try the brakes" he stopped almost instantly. We were both surprised as before whenever I asked him to stop the best he ever did on the Pitboss was a slight slow down. This is when I knew that I needed to work on redoing the brakes on the Pitboss. The avid 7 is much better but it's still not as good as the Islabike brakes. When I was biking with my eldest who is 7 on the Islabike last week he was going down some steep hills in complete control.

I don't know why the American bike manufacturers can't figure out what the UK ones already have. I do occasionally see front and rear V-brakes on older American 16" bikes like the Haro. I am just guessing here but I wonder if it has anything to do with worries of liability and kids endoing on front hand brakes. When I used to be into babywearing there was a few UK manufacturers who wouldn't sell to North America because we were to litigious.

Have you seen the schwinn micro mesa? Front and rear V-brakes and a coaster brake. I wonder how much it would weigh after changing out the rear wheel and if the brakes work well.

I am glad I didn't spend too much on the hotrock. Got it for $40 of CL. I had an older aluminum one and once I changed out the seat it was in the #16 pound range. However the geometry was too upright and didn't suit my child. Glad to have passed that bike on.

What gets me is the American big box store bikes that are cheap and heavy. An equivalent bike in the UK and similar to the one we used when we were over there Apollo Urchin 16. My child's riding was much better on that than the lightweight brand name coaster brake bike I had back home at the time. I would have brought that bike home too if I had space in my suitcase.


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

Well your review convinced me to get a Banshee for my 3.5 year old. I put some lower rise bars and fatter tires and off she went. So far so good!


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

I wish I could have gotten my daughter the pink bike too, but thought it would be easier to for her to rock the blue, than my younger son in two years with the pink. But I did order her some pink Jagwire brake cables off of Ebay, so it will be more girled out.

Which tires are those? Kenda K50s? And I like your idea of the handle bar. Send a video link on here if you get a chance. My daughter is getting better everyday, but in 2-3 months riding season will be over, and then it will be time for skis.


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

I have another coming behind her so it was easy to pick pink. The tires are from Tarty bikes in the UK. Quick and cheap shipping. They are 16" trials tires. 2.4. They should work great in the soft stuff. We will find out tomorrow


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## devojrx7 (Feb 12, 2011)

Anybody got a picture of the green? It really sucks that you can't see the actual different pain colors on their website.


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## FREDGOAT (Jan 9, 2007)

nice pinkbike! Tires look mega burly, what size are they?


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

They are 16 x 2.4. Tight fit but no rubbing.


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

devojrx7 said:


> Anybody got a picture of the green? It really sucks that you can't see the actual different pain colors on their website.


We liked the Banshee so much, we got a Tengu for my son too. Still trying to get him to understand that he can now brake with his hands, and not his feet. But with him having real rubber tires with air, sure makes for a safer ride, as those lightweight foam / plastic wheels from the Strider are [email protected]

Anyway, I assume this would be the same green used for the other bikes, and the green is a tad bit darker in real life than the picture shows.


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## devojrx7 (Feb 12, 2011)

Thanks for the pic. I actually contacted Spawn and Max said that they are updating their site and will have a new site soon that will have all the pics. He sent me a link to a pic of the 14" bike in green here.

Spawn Cycles Blog » The Green Gremlin

He also found a slightly cheaper place to get the 2.4 tires Adam has on his girls bike. It came out to just under 60 euros shipped. The place Adam got them was out of stock.

Municycle.com - Unicycle.com Germany - 16 x 2.4 Inch (64-305) Monty Trials Tire


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

I am looking to better the gearing on the Banshee for my little girl. Currently I have replaced the 28t chainring with a 22t and when I went to change the freewheel to something bigger I learned a lot about BMX stuff that I didnt know. Namely that they have Metric thread freewheels up to 15t and then they move to larger English threads for 16t and up. Typically the Metric are on flip flop hubs but the hub on the Banshee only has the Metric. She is wanting to follow me on some easy grades but she needs more gear. 

So I found a cheap flip flop hub that I will use on the rear to relace the wheel. I want to bling it up a little while its apart with some pink spoke nipples, but the Spawn site does not list the spoke size. Anyone have an idea?


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## devojrx7 (Feb 12, 2011)

Send them an email, they got back to me within hours of mine. Make sure to post pics when you get it done. Link to hub you are using?


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

FMF PowerMoto Flip-Flop Mini Expert Jr. BMX Hubset 28h Black 425610484000 | eBay


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## FREDGOAT (Jan 9, 2007)

devojrx7 said:


> He also found a slightly cheaper place to get the 2.4 tires Adam has on his girls bike. It came out to just under 60 euros shipped. [/url]


700g per tire!!!, Spawn talks about the advantage of a lightweight bike and those tires add 800g of extra rotating weight (compared to Schwalbe Mow Joe's). 
That's not really rewarding Span's efforts or am I missing something?


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

Did I miss where Mow Joe's are made in 16 x 2.4? They are definitely not light but with the sand around here I have found no better alternative. Everything else just sinks.

I was a little hesitant too since my 26 x 2.4 tires weigh the same.


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## devojrx7 (Feb 12, 2011)

You can get the Mad Mike's in 16x2.125 @ 540g.
MAD MIKE


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

devojrx7 said:


> You can get the Mad Mike's in 16x2.125 @ 540g.
> MAD MIKE


I'm not sure what the difference is between the Mad Mike's and the Kenda K50s, but they look like the exact same tire, and can be found for cheap on Amazon:

Kenda Comp III Style Wire Bead Bicycle Tire, Blackwall, 16-Inch x 2.125-Inch: Amazon.com: Sports & Outdoors

And they look like a nice compromise to riding on both dirt and street. And those 2.4s look huge, but after doing lots of snow rides last year, float is very good. But still can't understand why those 16x2.4s weigh half of my 26x4.9s. Seems like they should be way lighter.

For other people in my position that bought a neutral color frame for the future younger brother / sister, I got some Jagwire brake housings in pink on Ebay for $11.45 shipped, that even comes with the actual stranded wire brake cables. There were lots of color options too. My daughter loves it, and will put the original black ones back on when my son is old enough to ride it. Now, I'll get some pink grips, and call it good. It is amazing how such a simple upgrade has her so excited about her bike.


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## devojrx7 (Feb 12, 2011)

Looks the same to me, and about $5 cheaper, damn. I wonder what they weigh? I couldn't find it during a short search of the intraweb.


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

2.125 vs 2.4








Pretty big diff


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## devojrx7 (Feb 12, 2011)

I'm going to run the 2.4's for sure when they get here, he has been having trouble riding the rocky trails around here and I think those will help a lot. They aren't going to make a 16lb bike a 30lb bike, and I seriously doubt that he will be achieving speeds that will make the extra rotational mass a significant hinderance any time in the near future. 
Thanks for the pic

I'm either going to do orange and green or a joke themed purple and green like this bike. He is really into batman now.


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

devojrx7 said:


> Looks the same to me, and about $5 cheaper, damn. I wonder what they weigh? I couldn't find it during a short search of the intraweb.


One of the other websites that I was looking at said the K50s were 520g, but I can't seem to find that now. But the 20x2.125s are 640 grams, so 520g sounds about right.


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## MCM990 (Jul 31, 2006)

I have a blue Banshee on its way to me right now. Thanks for the great write up here. Looking forward to doing a side by side comparison with my son's current 16" hotrock. I will post up my findings ;-) Also picked up some nubbier tires to go ripping around on the mountain bike trails. My son is so excited to get a bike with hand brakes like dad's.


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

I got all the new parts for my daughter's bike a couple days ago, and I changed out the Hotrock 16" tires for the Kenda K50s. The Kendas feel about the same weight, but their casing doesn't feel quite as thick, so not sure how that will be with pinch flats, because I am running the tires at a low PSI to give a little cushion when she hits the rocks. On her first ride, she rarely skid, and is way more confident in her turns on loose dirt / sand.

I changed out the 28T chainring with a 22T chainring from Amazon that I got for $9. I had to take out a link of the chain, and had to move the wheel back further in the dropouts, which also made me have to move the rear v-brake pads back too. Pretty easy change, that took about 15 minutes including removing the crank, etc. Another good thing about the smaller gear is that it limits her speed, which for now is good, as she is getting to the point that she wants to race me.

And I got some new pink grips. Here is the bike now (also with the pink brake housing and a softer seat more ergo Serfas seat we had on her trailer bike).

Also, here is another small bike video of her riding at the local skate park. Doesn't look like much, but there is a 4 foot drop if she goes off the top. And don't worry, we did it 5 or so times with me in the catch position before filming this.

Addz in the Skate Park - YouTube


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## MCM990 (Jul 31, 2006)

BullSCit said:


> I got all the new parts for my daughter's bike a couple days ago, and I changed out the Hotrock 16" tires for the Kenda K50s. The Kendas feel about the same weight, but their casing doesn't feel quite as thick, so not sure how that will be with pinch flats, because I am running the tires at a low PSI to give a little cushion when she hits the rocks. On her first ride, she rarely skid, and is way more confident in her turns on loose dirt / sand.
> 
> I changed out the 28T chainring with a 22T chainring from Amazon that I got for $9. I had to take out a link of the chain, and had to move the wheel back further in the dropouts, which also made me have to move the rear v-brake pads back too. Pretty easy change, that took about 15 minutes including removing the crank, etc. Another good thing about the smaller gear is that it limits her speed, which for now is good, as she is getting to the point that she wants to race me.
> 
> ...


Great looking bike :thumbsup: Seeing all these is making me more excited for my son's new banshee to arrive ;-)


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## chadalex78 (Oct 12, 2011)

My daughter is still on her Strider, but soon will need one of these... $350.00 is a bit more than I could afford though. If any of your kids grow out of theirs in the next year or so... Let me know. Would love to find one used for my little shredder.


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## chadalex78 (Oct 12, 2011)

BullSCit said:


> A couple of months ago, I posted a question on this forum about trying to find a 16" wheeled bike for my at the time 3 year old daughter, that had a free-wheel and hand brakes. I thought I researched everything, but someone on that post recommended me to look at the Spawn Cycles Banshee (2012 Spawn Cycles Banshee 16" Bike - Spawn Cycles - The World's Best Kids' Bikes!). It was everything that I wanted spec wise (aluminum frame, free-wheel, v-brakes and lightweight), and delivered it was less than $400.
> 
> I had originally bought a Specialized Hotrock 16" for her a year before, and even though she was progressing fast with the bike, it was limiting her true potential. So I bought the only type of brakes that fit on it (U-brakes), and they were terrible even though I adjusted them as intended. So I had a bike that weighed almost 23 pounds, had crappy brakes, still had the crutch coaster brakes and had too big of gearing for her and an inefficient drivetrain. She weighs 37 pounds, so that is like my 200 pound self pedaling a 124 pound bike. And I now had spent around $300 for this.
> 
> ...


What kind of seat is that you have your lil boy in? looks cool.


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

It's the Ibert seat. It is pretty cool, and we have used it pretty heavily for more than 3 years now (starting with my daughter). We have ridden fairly technical trails, and have only had one wreck. Just got to remember that you are their roll cage, so no taking your hands off the bars if you fall. But it is one great way to get your kids out biking at an early age, and they love being able to talk to you and see you (and shift your gears when you aren't looking), compared to being behind you as most other systems are.

It is a great system, but I would definitely modify it, because it could be much better.


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## MCM990 (Jul 31, 2006)

Some one is excited  I will make sure to post my comparison notes between the hotrock and this bike soon!


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## MCM990 (Jul 31, 2006)

First impressions:

Overall the Spawn Cycles is a very good looking and quality children's bike. Little details like Decals are applied under the clearcoat instead of stickers, sealed bearings all around, and the fit and finish are very nice.

1. Low weight - The Banshee came in right at 16lbs which is what is advertised on their site. This makes it one of the lighter 16" kids bikes out there. Surprisingly the Hotrock was only a couple more pounds weighing in at 17-18 in stock form. Not bad either considering lots of other 16" options easily tip the 20lb mark.
2. "Real" V-Brakes front and rear - This is HUGE if your plans include riding single track. The coaster brake on the hotrock was just unsafe on the dirt hills. The V-brakes are powerful and easy to modulate even for kids with small hands. My son got the hang of the hand brakes in a day and is now working them like a champ. I will give it a bit longer before hitting the trails to make sure he has it under control ;-)
3. Freewheel - These bikes are so low to the ground that they have issues with hitting pedals on corners. The freewheel will make it easier for him to properly position his pedals when going into corners. Another bennifit I noticed is that there was considerable drag on the Hotrock's rear wheel, presumably from the coaster brake setup. The rear wheel of the Banshee just keeps spinning and spinning where the Hotrock stops in 3-4 turns. That has to be a good thing.
4. Cranks - The cranks are a good inch longer on the Banshee. I have already noticed my son powering up some pretty decent hills around the house with his new found leverage. I will be curious to see how that helps him out on the trails. The Hotrocks crank arms are so darn short!

A note on the cost - New, the Banshee costs about $130 more than a Hotrock 16. Not insignificant but for me it was justified since I was looking at doing modifications to the Hotrock that would have cost at least that much to bring it up to the level the Banshee comes stock. Getting sidepull brakes (not as good as V-brakes), a better crank, and a freewheel would have easily matched the price of the Banshee.

I will post some notes after our first outing on the trail. If you have any questions let me know J The small family owned Spawn Cycles were an absolute pleasure to deal with!

Here is a picture of his bike all setup for him!

https://www.morcmtb.org/photopost/data/500/medium/Spawn2.JPG


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## Biopace (Jul 8, 2005)

For those of you who live in the US and bought the Spawn Banshee, did you get hit with any customs fees?


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## MDEnvEngr (Mar 11, 2004)

madsedan said:


> I'm having a hard enough time justifying $200 for a used Hardrock 20" for my son about to turn 6, no way I would have paid $350 for a 16" bike 2 years ago, you sir are a baller, props to you


Ice hockey ice time: $1800/yr. Equipment not included. Use this info to justify otherwise outrageous kids bike purchases! B


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

I had to pay customs fees....when I spoke with Spawn about it they say its a crap shoot...sometimes customer gets charged sometimes they dont...but they have no control over it


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## devojrx7 (Feb 12, 2011)

I did not have to pay any customs. How much is it if you get charged?

Oh and the bike is great. The 2.4's really make a big difference on the MTB trails he can now just roll over roots and rocks. I keep them aired down pretty low and it makes a pretty good suspension. They look really cool too.


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

I got hit with about $60...bummer, but the bike is still worth it. She is wanting to ride trails everyday and even her 2 year old sister wants to come. We let her come along on her balance bike when we do shorter rides. In the process of teaching her (2 yo) to pedal now....little bit of a struggle as she can balance the bike just fine, but has never pedaled anything so does not quite understand what to do.

The 3.5 year old has done rides in the 3-4 miles range all single track and I def believe the bike helps. We took some friends older kids out this past weekend on their department store bikes with coaster brakes. It was just the affirmation I needed. Coaster brakes are impossible off road especially since they usually want to put their feet down when they are in trouble...that means no brakes.

Thanks again Spawn!


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

That sucks regarding the customs. I was lucky enough to not have to pay any customs.

Our riding definitely slowed down later this summer, as my daughter hit a small rock, lost her balance, and got launched over her handlebars. Landed on her elbow, and hyper-extended it, breaking her humerus right at the socket. She displaced the humerus with the ulna / radius fairly significantly and had to actually have surgery. She was one of three kids in the kids hospital that had the same type of break, so fairly common with their soft bones. We thought regular elbow pads help, but they actually make it worse, giving the arm more of a chance to hyper-extend because the elbow is an inch or so off the ground. 

So needless to say, I just bought her a full face helmet, and body armor (that has a combo elbow/forearm pad). I hope this will help reduce the chances of something like this happening again. We have really good insurance, but it still cost us almost $1500 out of pocket for all of this. With the FF helmet and armor only being $150, it seems like a decent investment.

But we have started to get out again, and are planning a couple trips to Moab before it gets too cold down there. The bad news is that we awoke to 6" of snow at our house, so our riding season may be ending fast.


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## Diesel8810 (May 17, 2012)

Awesome thread... I have a 7 month old (my first) fast asleep in his room right now and after a bit in a Burly -esqe trailer this Spring I can't wait to get him on one of these balance bikes and on and on.. Great to see so many great parents out there bringing their kids into a great sport!..


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## Ötzi (Sep 20, 2004)

I was lucky and had no customs fees but my bike box was destroyed. The USPS must have used an entire roll of priority mail tape to patch the box up. They blamed it on Canada, damn you Terrence and Phillip.


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## Ötzi (Sep 20, 2004)

My daughter finally decided to graduate from her push bike to her Spawn Gremlin this weekend. Once she decided she could do it, the transition took 10 minutes. Ordering a Banshee soon for her, the gremlin will go to her brother.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Oh god dammit I wish I hadn't of seen this thread. My 4 year old son is outgrowing his Hotrock 12 and I was about to get him a Hotrock 16. Game over. Fuuuuuuudge the wife will not be happy lol


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

Just an update to our Spawn. I added a 3 spd freewheel to give a better range of gearing and prep her for the next bike. I used an SRAM X7 der and SRAM twist shifter i had laying around. Works great


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Just ordered a Banshee for my son! So stoked. Like was said earlier, after modding a Hotrock 16 you're basically at the Banshee cost. The longer crank arms is clutch, it was painful watching my son pedal his Hotrock 12 up small hills. 

Are there any other tires to consider aside from Kenda K50's? I noticed some Schwalbes that might be nice but unsure if someone had already done the research.


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

adamm3 said:


> Just an update to our Spawn. I added a 3 spd freewheel to give a better range of gearing and prep her for the next bike. I used an SRAM X7 der and SRAM twist shifter i had laying around. Works great
> View attachment 800181
> View attachment 800182


Adamm,

What a great idea to add some gears. And nice job in making it so pink. I know my daughter would love all those mods, but trying to keep it easy to change back for my son. I have a couple of questions if you have some time.

Is that the original rear hub on your Banshee?

Where did you get the 3 speed freewheel? Could you send a link?

When we ride, depending on the terrain, I am either wishing she had a smaller or taller gear. The 3 speed could be perfect.

Thanks for any info - BS


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

XJaredX said:


> Oh god dammit I wish I hadn't of seen this thread. My 4 year old son is outgrowing his Hotrock 12 and I was about to get him a Hotrock 16. Game over. Fuuuuuuudge the wife will not be happy lol


I'm sure your son's growth will be incredible going from the Hotrock 12 to the Banshee. Every ride that my daughter and I do now, she is amazing me by cleaning some part she hasn't been able to do in the past. She still doesn't have the power to get up most bigger hills, but is really learning how to keep momentum for the smaller ones. And it is so much easier to have confidence in going faster when you know you can stop quickly (instead of skid out of control). She is riding downhills that boys twice her age walk their bikes on. The Banshee has been a big reason for her growth in biking, and I just wish I knew about Spawn when I first bought her the Hotrock 12 too.

Regarding your question about tires. I really like the K50s for our trail conditions (loose and sometimes sandy). She could get by with a less aggressive tread, but she very rarely skids down loose downhills. And I'll trade a little slower for safer anyday.

And if your wife is like mine, she'll see quickly (after he learns the virtues of hand operated brakes), how much safer they are going downhill. On simple downhills with the Hotrocks, my daughter would lock up her rear brake and it scared the [email protected] out of us.

Best of luck and send some pics / vids when you get it running.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Thanks!


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

BS

You will need an English thread BMX hub. Almost the same as what comes stock , but stock one has metric thread and will only take 15 tooth max. I rebuilt the wheel with cheap English thread hub from ebay. Then you will need 
Problem Solvers Chain Tensioner with Derailleur Hanger
http://amzn.com/B006GHF18C
And
Como Bicycle Scooter Sprocket Wheel 3 Speed Freewheel Repair Part
http://amzn.com/B009PKMAZY
Plus shifter and der.

Its easy with the pink for me. I have a 2 year old coming right behind the 4 yo. She is riding a custom 12" hotrock with freewheel and rear vbrakes.

I agree with everyones statement about the spawn thou. If i would have known i would have started with their balance bike bc it has brakes that the little ones can use and then moved to the bigger ones. As it stands this one will get many years of use by my girls. This bike has made her a great rider.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

In case it helps anyone, I was having a hard time finding first Schwalbe Mad Mikes in the US in 16x2.125", but then I realized the Kenda K50 is nearly identical, so then I searched for those but was having a hard time finding them in all black (on Amazon they were either white, or gumwall) so then I found them at Niagara Cycle. I posted this mainly because they seem to have a ton of 16" tires to choose from:

Tires & Tubes - Tires - 16" - Niagara Cycle

I went with the knobbier K50's to give him traction on dirt and gravel, but for a moment I did ponder buying some slicks for street riding :lol:


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

adamm3 said:


> BS
> 
> You will need an English thread BMX hub. Almost the same as what comes stock , but stock one has metric thread and will only take 15 tooth max. I rebuilt the wheel with cheap English thread hub from ebay. Then you will need
> Problem Solvers Chain Tensioner with Derailleur Hanger
> ...


Adamm,

Thanks for the info. The PS Derailleur hanger and 3 spd freewheel seem to make sense. Is this what I am looking for in regards to a hub:

GT Mohawk BMX 28 Hole Hub Rear SS FW | eBay

Because if I wanted to keep the same rims, I would want a 28h hub? Were you able to reuse the spokes / nipples on yours?

Are there any other freewheels that would work? I would love to get a little more spread than the +/- 15% of the Como one.

Thanks again for any info - BS


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

I need to tag this one... my 3.5yo has a 12" pedal bike from grandma which is a little too big. Just got her on a Burley MyKick balance bike, but I think the Banshee will be just right when she's ready for a new bike. She's small, so maybe xmas or next year... shall see.


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

****************12UHA3D

These are the hubs i used. Hard to tell on the one u linked if it has correct thread. Spokes and nipples transferred over.

Como Sprocket Wheel Freewheel 3 Speed for Scooter Bicycle
http://amzn.com/B0053WWHK6

Como Bicycle Scooter Sprocket Wheel 3 Speed Freewheel Repair Part
http://amzn.com/B009PKMAZY

2 versions i found


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

FMF Powermoto flip flop hub. Link didnt work. I think any flip flop hub will work


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

Adamm, thanks again, and my daughter will soon has some gears. One last question, is that the KMC Z410 chain that you are using? Basically trying to find out if I want a singlespeed chain or a multi speed chain. Yours looks like the pink KMC, but I wanted to make sure.

Thanks again - BS


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

Just a pink single speed chain..not sure even which one. It works surprisingly well.


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## FreeHeelFreeRide (Mar 18, 2005)

Wow- great thread! After looking at Hotrocks and Pitboss, I drank the Spawn kool-aide and couldn't be happier. My 5 year old son is a very small guy, just makes it on the seat of his new Banshee. The bike is awesome- light and well made with top shelf components, a huge improvement over the Trek Jett he was riding. I'm eager to try Adamm3's recipe for adding a freewheel and derailleur. Between Ebay and Amazon I think I have the critical pieces covered. 

I do have a question about Grip Shifters and Handle Bar Diameter. So far I've kept the stock Spawn handlebars. I notice a lot of custom bars in this thread. Do Grip Shifters come with shims to fit different handle bar diameters? how does that work? Do I need to worry about this?

Re: Customs/Duty fees, I live in the states and did not end up having to pay anything extra.

It is great to have this information resource, thanks to everyone for sharing their experiences.


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

You will need a 25.4mm bar to work with the shifters. That means you will also need a new stem if I remember right. I think the Spawn stuff is 22.2mm (BMX). Nice thing is that the steertube is 1-1/8", so just about any mountain bike stem will work. I would stick in the 50mm-60mm length.

Stem 25.4 x 60 x 1-1/8 would be ideal


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

My (son's) Banshee came yesterday. I live in PA, ordered it the 20th, so 8 days from western Canada to eastern U.S. is not bad at all. I didn't have to pay customs fees- I should point out that the times I have had to pay customs in the past on Canadian-shipped items were from UPS; Spawn shipped via Canada Post and then USPS. 

Very nice bike. Taking it to the LBS to handle the brakes, and my son is so stoked to ride it! We won't even mess with the 1.8" or whatever street tires on it, I already put the Kenda K50 knobbies on.


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

That is exactly what Spawn told me when i contacted them after i got hit for customs fees. UPS is how mine shipped. I think at the time they were going to stop using them.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Yeah, UPS calls it their "customs brokerage fee", which I read online can be circumvented if you call them ahead of time and complain and say something like "I have already cleared the item for import myself" or something.


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## FreeHeelFreeRide (Mar 18, 2005)

thanks adamm3, 25.4mm is the diameter I couldn't remember. I'm going to rummage through my boxes of old parts and see what bar/stem combos I can find. Appreciate the help.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

adamm3 said:


> You will need a 25.4mm bar to work with the shifters. That means you will also need a new stem if I remember right. I think the Spawn stuff is 22.2mm (BMX). Nice thing is that the steertube is 1-1/8", so just about any mountain bike stem will work. I would stick in the 50mm-60mm length.
> 
> Stem 25.4 x 60 x 1-1/8 would be ideal


Speaking of bar and shifter.... is than an indexed or friction shifter you installed, adamm3? If indexed, how did you reconcile the multi-speed indexed shifter with just the 3 gears?


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

adamm3, what SRAM grip shifter did you use? Did you use one for the rear derailleur and it just only works 3 gears? Or can the left/front shifter work for the rear on this type of setup?


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

XJaredX said:


> adamm3, what SRAM grip shifter did you use? Did you use one for the rear derailleur and it just only works 3 gears? Or can the left/front shifter work for the rear on this type of setup?


You getting ready to add gears to your Banshee, Jared? That new 20" geared Spawn bike might fit the bill when it's out... but, then, no fun customizing the one you have. 

I'm likely to be ordering a Banshee for my 4yo to graduate into soon. She's finally about 1.5" up on the seatpost of her Gremlin, and her younger sister is probably going to be ready for it by next year.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Yep! He's still 4 but at the point where he can justify a 3 speed with our riding. Plus he is constantly asking about how the gearing on my bike works. 

Trying to see if a Shimano Nexus 3 speed shifter can work... Other than that I dunno


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

I thought I would chime in as I bought my son a banshee as well. I've decided to go with the 2.4 inch innovo tires as the sand and gravel here is too much for smaller tires, as gears, I will wait a bit on those. I did drop the tooth count on the front sprocket to 22' instead of 28 to help my soon get some more uphill power.








Forgot to take a before picture, but here is final result








Original tire weight








New tire weight








Side by side comparison








28 tooth sprocket weight








22 tooth sprocket weight

I also put an xtr chain on the bike because all I had was a nine speed quick link.

I bought the tires from Unicycle.com - Please Choose Your Country they raped me on shipping, and had nothing else I wanted... Seriously 22 bucks for ground...

Also max at spawn cycles was awesome to deal with he went out of his way to get my so a green banshee, when all he had in stock was blue

and finally a video from my son's first track day on the bike in stock form, hope the new tires don't screw up his form.


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

BTW that is my 4 year old Alaura chasing Sean on her Banshee. We have done some changes since moving back to Tahoe from Texas. The 3 speed came off as the gearing does not help much in the mountains. We went back with the 24-24 gearing to allow her to climb some of the easier hills. The 3 speed tallest gear was 20 tooth. We also put on the 20" spinner air fork. It has taken a bit to break in but is working better. Will need to build a disc hub for the front as the v brake mounts are meant for 20" wheel.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Adamm3 a few posts up I asked about what shifter you used for 3 speed, any input is welcome!


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

I used a 9 spd SRAM XO


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Spawn has just announced that they have a new Banshee coming out in Mid-November. Lower seat and 1 pound less in weight!


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

evandy said:


> Spawn has just announced that they have a new Banshee coming out in Mid-November. Lower seat and 1 pound less in weight!


I am very jealous of it coming with a flip flop hub... but my son enjoys riding his too much to not of had it for the last of the warm weather...


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

Lower seat and a pound less is awesome. My daughter quickly transitioned to her 20" wheeled heavily modified Specialized a week or two after I did the three speed mod to our Banshee, but I don't think it is worth it. It added a decent amount of weight, and the range in gears obtained wasn't enough to justify this. It did help my daughter to understand the basics of shifting, but my recommendation is to keep the Banshee as it is and wait until they get big enough to ride a 20" bike. It sucks, as my 2 year old son is killing it on his Gremlin, and his big problem is he doesn't have a gear low enough for hills, and enough big gear for downhills. I guess another reason why I never have understood singlespeeders.

I know most kids don't need a conventional 9/10 speed drivetrain at 2-4 years old, but it sure would be nice. Any idea how to fit a conventional 9/10 speed hub into this?


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Just put in an order for a Bright Blue Banshee (The B bike, apparently). Should arrive just in time for Christmas if they hit their expected shipping date. My oldest is adament that her next bike be a "Skull and Pedal" bike too. She absolutely LOVES her Gremlin.

Can't wait to see what people think of the new Savage!


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

BullSCit said:


> I know most kids don't need a conventional 9/10 speed drivetrain at 2-4 years old, but it sure would be nice. Any idea how to fit a conventional 9/10 speed hub into this?











quite a bit of dish required.


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## northernblades (Jul 22, 2011)

Well I just bought a Spawn Banshee for my DD. I hope it all works out can admit a little bit scared. I got it for $180 Sight unseen.
I know I know, really bad Idea.
But it is done, I had a it picked up out of town. It was seen by someone else, but at 180, they did not have to be terribly picky.

sounds like I am replacing, either and or both tires, at least 1 set of break pads. I do not even have the thing in the house yet.

I am not sure if I am wanting to replace the tires with MTB tires right away, or leave her with the slicks for on road (as I am sure she is a full year/2 years away from the trails)

any suggestions for tires? the commuter/hybrid style? or mtb style?
anyone know what the original brand is on the breaks/pads?

Everyone cross their fingers for me. I could not justify a $400-450 ($380 bike for my 4 year old.) and they are quite difficult to find used.
180 was a LOT easier to justify. Hope it does not cost me more in the long run.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

northernblades said:


> Well I just bought a Spawn Banshee for my DD. I hope it all works out can admit a little bit scared. I got it for $180 Sight unseen.
> I know I know, really bad Idea.


Good luck! $180 is a fantastic price on the bike if it's still in decent shape. If all you have to replace is tires and brake pads, you should be OK.

My daughter (on a Gremlin still) isn't ready for trails yet. She doesn't have the leg strength or gear inches to be able to handle that yet... As long as the tires aren't worn and dead, I'd recommend living with the ones you've got for a while and see how things go before replacing.

$480 (bike + US shipping) may seem like a lot... but my DD just had a 12" rental bike on vacation that was nearly the same weight as my rental Moonlander.


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

BullSCit said:


> I know most kids don't need a conventional 9/10 speed drivetrain at 2-4 years old, but it sure would be nice. Any idea how to fit a conventional 9/10 speed hub into this?


 What is the frame dropout spacing? You should be able to find an old 7-speed road bike cassette hub in 126mm width. The 7-speed cassett body is 5mm narrower than 8/9/10s, but you can fit 8 of 9 cogs from a 9-speed cogset onto a 7-speed body.

If you want to stick with freewheels, an old 5-speed suntour "perfect" freewheel can bely rebuilt as a 3-speed (total width around 25mm), might also possibly work as a 4-speed. Suntour cogs would offer much lower gearing choices than the 20t 3-speed scooter FW.


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## northernblades (Jul 22, 2011)

Well the bike Came in yesterday. it is now nearly 4 hours into decal removal, sticker gunk removal, cleaning, and greasing. 
And the bike is freaking AWESOME.

The damage to the pedals was just a crack on the outside loop furthest from the bike (not important and non structural). The break pads were al present and accounted for. and in short no damage to the bike that my kids would not have done in the first week of use.

Even the rear tire, I figure I will let her road ride for 2-4 weeks, before I buy new tires, "in case" she hits any gravel or dirt. right now they are BALD. but not damaged.

Now the sad reality......
She will not be big enough to rid it until at least next summer. pictures to follow
I am so excided.... and she is excited that it is blue.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Sounds like a fantastic bargain


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## northernblades (Jul 22, 2011)

I Hope this is acceptable practice here.
http://sdrv.ms/HggJcP
is my folder of the bike pictures.
as well as one picture of my current rig.
the trail-a-bike is often replaced with a chariot, and the older daughter rides up front instead.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Ace


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## onespeedpaul (Apr 13, 2006)

Hi, just wanted to post up thanks for this great thread.

My 2.5yr old boy rides his balance bike at the BMX track, BUT I am ready to get him on a Gremlin.

Does anybody that reads this thread have a Gremlin for sale in the US? 

Since Spawn is no longer shipping the Gremlin here due to a trademark dispute, I would rather buy used, but am also considering looking for someone in the Calgary area that would be willing to ship me a new one ....PM me with replies, thanks!


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

Good idea to get a Gremlin. I got one for my just turned 3 year old early this year, and I am so glad that I did. He progressed so quickly on it, and pretty much rides a lot of singletrack on his own (just got back from Moab where he rode Agate and Jasper trails in North Klondike and Rusty Spur and the downhill of Lazy at the Brand trails). He is tall, and will next summer be on his sister's Banshee, and I'd sell you mine, but I am going to pass it down to my brother who will use it the summer of 2015. But definitely don't miss out on your son getting the chance to progress, as it is truly priceless. The best of luck in your search.


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## onespeedpaul (Apr 13, 2006)

Thanks for the quick reply! 

No worries, I know how it is passing kid's stuff around...He's got a good Kazaam balance bike (real tires/tubes and bearings all around unlike strider) that's already spoken for by my brother in law!

I am waiting to hear back from an old friend in Calgary who may be willing to go pick up one and ship it down here to me....Just depends on his timing tho, he works out of town a ton in the oil industry...


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## northernblades (Jul 22, 2011)

So now is time to post, Anyone selling or plan on selling a used Savage in the next.... 3 years?


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Haha. I got 2nd dibs. Has to be the 2.0!


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

onespeedpaul said:


> I am waiting to hear back from an old friend in Calgary who may be willing to go pick up one and ship it down here to me....Just depends on his timing tho, he works out of town a ton in the oil industry...


The Gremlin is a fantastic bike. I'm about to pass one down to my younger daughter... That said, Spawn is releasing the Banshee 2.0 this year, and I think they said that it has a "lower standover" than the original. The difference between the Gremlin and the Banshee was only 1.5" to start off with... if your young one is big enough, you MIGHT be able to go straight to the banshee.

It's a shame that they have that trademark dispute. It'll be nice to hear when they get it resolved (by renaming the bike or whatever).... In the mean time, my Banshee 2.0 is supposed to be shipping in time for Christmas; I'll measure it for posterity when it arrives.


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## fireswamp (Nov 4, 2013)

This thread is a fantastic resource---thank you!

Does anyone here have first-hand experience comparing a Banshee to an Islabike Cnoc 16? My daughter rides an Islabike Beinn 20 small, and it is fantastic (we bought it from the Portland, OR Islabike store). Moving to freewheel + light bike + hand brakes revolutionized her riding. Now I want the same transformation for my son, who is currently riding an unmodified Hotrock 16.

Unfortunately, the U.S. Islabike Cnoc 16 comes with a coaster brake, so if I go that route, I'll either self-import the freewheel version from the UK or buy the U.S. version, rebuild the rear wheel, and add a V-brake using the seat stay clamp-on brake bosses posted in one of the Hotrock 16 mod threads (http://forums.mtbr.com/families-rid...rades-hotrock-16-a-878765-2.html#post10803297). The cost of Banshee vs cnoc16-with-freewheel-in-U.S. ends up about the same (if only the U.S. Cnoc16 came with freewheel, it would be quite a bit cheaper than the Banshee).
- U.S. version: Islabikes Cnoc 16 - lightweight first bike for kids age 4+
- U.K. version: Islabikes Cnoc 16 - lightweight first bike for kids age 4+

The geometry is quite different between the bikes:
- Horizontal top tube: Cnoc16 (400mm). Banshee (380mm)
- Seat tube length: Cnoc16 (228mm). Banshee (190mm)
- Head tube angle: Cnoc16 (71 degrees). Banshee (72 degrees)

The Cnoc is reportedly roughly 2 lbs lighter than the Banshee at 13.2 lbs.

Anyone have first-hand experience with both bikes?


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

It is £30 cheaper in the US!


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## fireswamp (Nov 4, 2013)

ProjectMayhem said:


> It is £30 cheaper in the US!


Yes, but the U.S. model comes with a coaster brake and no rear v-brake bosses (not shown in the picture, but verified with Islabike U.S.). UK wins.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

That does suck. Though a coaster brake has been brilliant for my 2 year old, I don't think it has a place on a 16 inch bike.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Anyone hear anything about when the new Banshees will start shipping? Getting close to the end of the month!


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## CJH (Apr 21, 2004)

fireswamp said:


> Unfortunately, the U.S. Islabike Cnoc 16 comes with a coaster brake, so if I go that route, I'll either self-import the freewheel version from the UK or buy the U.S. version, rebuild the rear wheel, and add a V-brake using the seat stay clamp-on brake bosses posted in one of the Hotrock 16 mod threads
> 
> The geometry is quite different between the bikes:
> - Horizontal top tube: Cnoc16 (400mm). Banshee (380mm)
> ...


Fireswamp: Did you get the geometry directly from Islabikes? I've been looking around on both the US and UK sites and can't find it listed, even on the owner manual PDFs.

For what it is worth, the only 16" bike I have found "commonly" available in the US with rear V brake mounts is the Norco Scorpion.

Scorpion « 16 Inch « Youth « Bikes « Norco Bicycles

Unfortunately it comes with what I assume is a very low quality and very heavy suspension fork. I'm not sure what's the less of two evils, a coaster brake with heavy drag or a heavy, ineffective suspension fork.

I have to say with the benefit of hindsight the Spawn Banshee would have been worth every penny over the Hotrock 16 I bought. But I have two boys a year apart so we would have gotten a few good years out of it.


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## fireswamp (Nov 4, 2013)

CJH said:


> Fireswamp: Did you get the geometry directly from Islabikes? I've been looking around on both the US and UK sites and can't find it listed, even on the owner manual PDFs.


Yes, the geometry came from Islabike U.S. in Portland, OR. They are very helpful, and wish they could offer their freewheel + rear-V-brake Cnoc 14s and 16s in the U.S. They cannot due to our antiquated bicycle safety laws.

FWIW, I gave up on the idea of modding a U.S. Cnoc 16 to add the freewheel + V-brake and ordered a Banshee.


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## CJH (Apr 21, 2004)

fireswamp said:


> Yes, the geometry came from Islabike U.S. in Portland, OR. They are very helpful, and wish they could offer their freewheel + rear-V-brake Cnoc 14s and 16s in the U.S. They cannot due to our antiquated bicycle safety laws.
> 
> FWIW, I gave up on the idea of modding a U.S. Cnoc 16 to add the freewheel + V-brake and ordered a Banshee.


My wife called him yesterday. Unfortunately I was in the shower so I couldn't tell her to get the horizontal TT measurements of the two 20" models. I'll email him shortly.

We've already ordered a Cannondale Street 20 for my five and a half year old. I want to put some money into his Hotrock 16 (freehub, V brake adaptors, paint job) and give it to his four and a half year old brother. My wife is now questioning if it's worth the money given how quickly our older son outgrew the Hotrock.

She feels with what Hotrock 16s are selling for on Ebay we could just go ahead and sell it and get the bike we really want. Of course the only bike that meets our criteria is the Banshee but it has an even shorter TT than the Hotrock and I'm convinced my four year old will be cramped on it before the end of next summer.

Is Spawn able to export Banshee's into the states without a coaster brake? Looking at the Norco Scorpion image closely online and it appears that it comes with both a coaster brake and a V brake. I just can't see spending more money and having a high friction coaster brake when I already have one here.


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## fireswamp (Nov 4, 2013)

CJH said:


> ...so I couldn't tell her to get the horizontal TT measurements of the two 20" models. I'll email him shortly.


The Beinn 20" small has a 440mm horizontal top tube. I don't know about the 20" large version.


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

CJH said:


> Is Spawn able to export Banshee's into the states without a coaster brake? Looking at the Norco Scorpion image closely online and it appears that it comes with both a coaster brake and a V brake. I just can't see spending more money and having a high friction coaster brake when I already have one here.


I bought my son a banshee in September before they announced the refreshed model, it did not have a coaster brake, I would not have bought it if it did


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

They should add in the wholesale cost of a coaster hub wheel, plus the extra shipping, and then just ship the U.S. bikes with both wheels in the box. I can't imagine it'd be that much different in cost, it's a kid's wheel.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

CJH said:


> Is Spawn able to export Banshee's into the states without a coaster brake? Looking at the Norco Scorpion image closely online and it appears that it comes with both a coaster brake and a V brake. I just can't see spending more money and having a high friction coaster brake when I already have one here.


Spawn states on their site that the consumer is solely responsible for all input duty and legal requirements. The only issue I've heard of them having is with the Gremlin, and that's a trademark issue with Schwinn (who also sells a bike called a gremlin).


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Derp! I was confusing bikes. I thought since I bought our Banshee they went to a coaster brake for the US, but that was not the case


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

tkavan01 said:


> View attachment 835304
> 
> 
> quite a bit of dish required.


Tkanvan01,

Did you ever try to do this? I am seriously thinking about trying to do it now, and even though it will be a helluva amount of dish, my 35# son should be alright, and I'll have to limit him to only 5' high jumps to flat landings.

Did you have to spread the stays out to get the hub in?

From your picture it looks like there could be some interference with the V-brake bosses on the non driveside spokes, does it look like that to you?

What kind of hub is that? I just did a quick search for a bolt on rear hub, and didn't find much.

Thanks for any info - BS


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

BullSCit said:


> Tkanvan01,
> 
> Did you ever try to do this? I am seriously thinking about trying to do it now, and even though it will be a helluva amount of dish, my 35# son should be alright, and I'll have to limit him to only 5' high jumps to flat landings.
> 
> ...


I tore apart an XT mtn bike hub, removing the lock nuts to get it to fit, I did not go any further bc it seemed stupid to continue, as soon as you add the rear cassette the locking cap part interfered with the frame. I did debate cutting the rear hub and taking a small section out of the middle and rewelding it, but I don't have access to an aluminum welder so i skipped that idea as well, maybe I should rethink it though.


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## onespeedpaul (Apr 13, 2006)

I got a Gremlin finally!! Just had it shipped to a buddy in Calgary who then shipped it on down to me....

It's great, my son who will be 3 in about 2 more months spent about ten minutes walk-riding it last night like he does on his balance bike, then about 20 minutes this afternoon doing about the same before he pedaled away from me under his own power...so cool!!! 

He's always been in the 50th percentile for his height and weight, so one thing I did to modify his a little was to swap out the seat and seatpost for a smaller/lower seat from his big sister's Islabike, and a plain seatpost with the separate old school seat rail clamp that can be flipped upside down to get the seat as low as it would go so he can tippy toe while seated...next up some 2.125 tires for his birthday in a couple months!


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

evandy said:


> Anyone hear anything about when the new Banshees will start shipping? Getting close to the end of the month!


Well, mine hasn't shipped yet ;( Max at Spawn told me a couple weeks back that it all depends on when the parts arrive through customs... here's hoping that all gets settled soon!


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Just got notification that the new Banshee has been "Completed." No tracking number, so presumably it will ship out in the next couple of days. I'll get you some photos when it shows up (next week, I assume)...


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## spencerb (Dec 9, 2013)

Thanks for starting this post BullSCit, it was a major contributor to us buying this bike.

Speaking of which, we ordered the banshee in Oct, it showed up today. YAY! Now I have to wait until kiddos birthday in January to give it to him.

Is it January yet?


Spencer


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## northernblades (Jul 22, 2011)

And then wait till may for the snow to melt.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

northernblades said:


> And then wait till may for the snow to melt.


That's what gloves are for!

Apparently, my banshee shipped 7 day instead of 2 day... Should show up Thurs.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Banshee finally showed up today, after 9 days with no scans from USPS. Box was damaged, and the powercoat on the cranks was scratched, but fine otherwise. Went together smooth as silk, just like the Gremlin, and the new lower seat is JUST low enough for my 4yo. By spring I'll probably be able to bump it up a bit. Hopefully it'll warm up enough that she can get out to give it a test ride soon.

Now to hope the 2yo grows enough for the Gremlin by March.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

What color is that? I doesn't appear on the Spawn website currently.


adamm3 said:


> Just an update to our Spawn. I added a 3 spd freewheel to give a better range of gearing and prep her for the next bike. I used an SRAM X7 der and SRAM twist shifter i had laying around. Works great
> View attachment 800181
> View attachment 800182


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

fire_strom said:


> What color is that? I doesn't appear on the Spawn website currently.


Its was the pink color offered on the V1 Banshee. I just looked at the site and I guess they are not offering it for the V2


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Darn. Pink would be the easy choice for my girl. It looks great too. 
G


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Pulled the trigger today on a blue one!!! I am way more excited than she is but I expect that will equalize once it's here and she's rocking it. It might be a tiny bit big at first. She rode a HR16 in the store the other day and with the seat slammed could just touch the ground with the tips of her shoes.

Thanks everyone for chiming in about these. Very inspirational and influential.

I wonder if I can lace a IGH hub into the rim...

-G


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Congrats, fire_storm. I hope that you and your daughter enjoy it!

My 4yo had a rude awakening last week. She insisted on going out to ride on the banshee despite ice and snow. When the tire slipped out from under her due to black ice she had no idea what just happened. Poor her.

Oh, well. She's still looking forward to getting back on it in better weather.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Bummer. Hope she isn't too shaken. It's great isn't it how kids don't know that bad weather and dicey conditions are bad until we convey it. Every morning that I'm taking her to "school" I ask if she wants to ride her bike or take the truck, she choices to ride her bike. Pouring rain, dumping snow, sub freezing temps, whatever, the weather doesn't seem to be a factor. That's the kind of exuberance and innocence we parents need to re-learn and not un-teach. Fine line between the safety and living. I lean towards living. But always with a helmet. 

-G

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## onespeedpaul (Apr 13, 2006)

fire_strom said:


> She rode a HR16 in the store the other day and with the seat slammed could just touch the ground with the tips of her shoes.
> 
> -G


I ended up swapping the seat and seatpost to get the top of the seat about another 1" lower. The seat that Spawn uses has pretty profile from the rails to the top of the seat, so be looking for another seat with lower-profile (I used the islabikes seat off his sister's bike which is both small overall as well as lower profile)....and the seat post is a regular MTB single bolt offset post which is fine BUT if you go with a seatpost with the old style clamp that is separate from the post (like found on most all dept store bikes) you can flip the clamp so the thru-bolt that holds it together is above the rails and drop the height lower. each mod gains about a half-inch independent of each other....hope this helps!


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

It will, thanks. I remember reading your post on this a while back. I'd forgotten it though. I think I might have the parts on a big box store bike that would work.
Thanks again-
G


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

also, a mini bmx seat and shim gets it close to an inch lower.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Has anyone else noticed that Schwalbe has a 16" Big Apple Tire?? I'm thinking that it might be a nice upgrade for our blue Banshee if/when we need some new tires. On the other hand, the tires that come with it are fairly slick. I wonder how much difference it would make...


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

I would say the extra 1/2" will make it a lot softer on the bumps. I run 2.35 big apples on my street bike, and I love the Cush. They roll plenty fast and are semi thorn resistant. 

I just wish black jacks would restock.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

What size pedals are these? 9/16" or 1/2"?
Thanks!
-G


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Oh and, enter the FURI!!!
They changed the name of the Gremlin to be able to import into Schwinnland USA.
-G


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

They finally got the rename complete? Glad to hear that! My oldest started off on a Gremlin and loved it. She's on a Banshee now and the Gremlin is passed down... but it's a great bike. Glad they can finally import it into the US again.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

9/16". Only cheap one piece cranks use 1/2" these days. 

And the black jacks shipped today!!!!!


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## spencerb (Dec 9, 2013)

spencerb said:


> Thanks for starting this post BullSCit, it was a major contributor to us buying this bike.
> 
> Speaking of which, we ordered the banshee in Oct, it showed up today. YAY! Now I have to wait until kiddos birthday in January to give it to him.
> 
> ...


It's January! Son has ridden this bike a couple times. Took him less than 10 min to pedal, steer and stop coming from his runbike. Definitely going to have to put a smaller chainring on the front as he's having a hard time going up hill. For those that went to 22t, was it too low? or did it work out?

Also, the one that we got had the flipflop hub. If I wanted to to up in teeth in the rear, would I just toss another gear on the opposite side?


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## fireswamp (Nov 4, 2013)

I'm running a 24T up front and a 3-speed 16-22t in the rear. No derailleur or shifter yet, but I manually throw it on the 22T for trail riding so he can climb hills and on the 16t for pavement cruising. This setup works with the stock chain. 

24/22 gives him a low enough gear to climb most of the hills on our local trails. 

To answer the other part of your question, I removed the stock freewheel after putting on the 3-speed on the other side. But you could also run the stock 14t on one side, a larger freewheel on the other, and flip the wheel as needed.


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

I started with the 22T up front, and it really helped my daughter on the hills around our house, but she spins out pretty fast on downhills and roads (which really isn't a bad thing, as speed hurts). It all depends on how big your hills are, and how hard he/she will try before giving up. 

What I really would love is if someone would make me a smaller width rear hub (basically cutting out a chunk between the two flanges), like what is being talked about before on this thread, so my 3 year old son can use it. The 3 speed cassette is alright, but it is heavy and doesn't give much range. My daughter is now on a 20" bike with a 9 speed 11-34 cassette, and it is amazing what she climbed right off the bat compared to the 3-speed Banshee. Yeah the bigger wheels help, but it is mostly due to the 300% range instead of 50%, and be able to rock crawl up steeper hills. If anyone can make this hub, I have money for your talents.


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## fireswamp (Nov 4, 2013)

I second that---I would really love to have a 7-speed or 9-speed cassette on the Banshee.

And in the future, I would have happily paid the same price as the Savage 1.0 if it had come with standard mtb rear hub spacing and a 7/9 speed rear cassette/derailleur/shifter.

Spawn? Islabike? Anyone?


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## spencerb (Dec 9, 2013)

Awesome, thanks for the replies! Sounds like I will pick up a 22t front for him since we do almost all trail riding. He can out pedal me running beside him on our street which makes me nervous.

Regarding the flipflop hub, would I just drop something like the following on the second side in addition to the 14t hub it came with? Shimano Single Speed Freewheel | Chain Reaction Cycles

Here's a video of him riding our local trails on his runbike: Bens Ride - YouTube

It will be a while before we can get his banshee there due to size and comfort, but I don't expect it will be long.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

I went for a 22t chainring on my son's 16" bike, and 16t on the freewheel. (12 inch hotrock was 28/18 iirc) and he manages slight hills more easily.

BUT I wish I had gone for 18t freewheel. Infact I may buy one and give it a try. I don't know how much difference those 2 teeth would make. I was worried about him spinning out, but he doesn't, and still has plenty of speed.

He also has short cranks (89) and as he grows I will replace these with the next size up, which might help too?


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

BullSCit said:


> What I really would love is if someone would make me a smaller width rear hub (basically cutting out a chunk between the two flanges), like what is being talked about before on this thread, so my 3 year old son can use it.


BSC- I made a couple preliminary measurements of an older 135mm 7-speed cassette hub (Shimano Deore DX) that I have kicking around. To go from 135mm to 108mm axle width, 27mm of width needs to be removed. Problem is that the centerline of the hub then is only 5mm offset from the drive side flange center, very little dish for the spokes on drive side, more typically hubs have around 19-20mm of offset from the drive side flange to the hub centerline but the light weight of a 50lbs kid should give you much less of a need for lateral strength so it might still be OK. You could probably help the spoke geometry by using a singlewall rim and re-drilling the spoke holes offset toward the non-drive side to get a bit more of a dish angle on the drive side.
8/9 speed width cassette body hub is definitely a no-go, the drive side hub flange would be at the hub centerline. Another possibility is to go with a 5-speed freewheel and threaded hub instead of a cassette. A 5-speed freewheel is even narrower than a 7-speed cassette so leaves a bit more room for getting the drive side flange offset from centerline.


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

GJ,

I posted something on the Fat Bikes forum about this, as people are talking about doing the exact opposite, and adding material to a 135mm hub to make it a 170 or 190mm rear hub for a conventional (non-Surly) dropout. I came to the same conclusion you did, that the dish on the drive side spokes would be almost perpendicular to the skewer/axle bolt. Not sure how to get around that, and maybe would be able to spread the dropouts a bit (I wish for once it was steel). Seems like if you cold spread it out to 120mm and then cut 15mm off of the hub width. 

Sorry for my ignorance, but are free-hubs all the same just not as wide from 7 to 10 speed? What I really want is range, and I could live with losing 3-4 gears in the middle, if I can still have 11 and 36.


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

8/9/10 speed cassette hub body is all the same width, a 7-speed cassette body is 5mm narrower. 
Probably best solution however is to follow Tigworlds example and adapt 5 cogs of a MTB cassette to fit on a BMX cassette hub which is intended as a singlespeed so is even more narrow. See FAQLoad - Adding gears to a single speed BMX

Difficulty with this is finding an affordable source for suitable BMX casette hubs that take road/MTB cassette cogs. The only SS cassette hubs I find online are prohibitively expensive for my kids bike projects and stuff like this doesnt seem to ever show up at bike co-op, or even on e-bay. Example ss hubs AREs;
Velocity - Singlespeed Disc Rear Hub 
or
Chris King BMX Rear

Also beware that BMX/TRIALS world more typically uses a micro cassette that takes a tiny 9-tooth SS cog, smaller diameter so not useful for adapting to road/MTB multi-cogs.


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## joe_j (Feb 21, 2014)

Expecting our banshee to show up tomorrow. Wish I found this thread sooner, but we ended up getting our 4 yr old a 16" Hotrock last july. The training wheels came off a few months ago and even though it's a great bike, the side pull brake we put on wasn't very inspiring. Gonna try taking him on some easy trails this weekend so we'll see how he does with having better brakes. Looking at the pictures, I'm guessing I'll have to replace those tires right away. Any recommendations? He'll be 5 in May and I think he's around 15% percentile in height so I'm hoping the bike will last him at least until he turns 7.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Schwalbe Black jack 1.9s is what I went with. Sourcing was a pain, as they were back ordered. 

The mad mikes are heavier, but easier to source.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

PM'd you. Have tires that I can't use on my 3y/o's Banshee. 
-G


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## joe_j (Feb 21, 2014)

Got your pm. Thanks for the offer, but I found a brand new set of kenda k50s in my garage from a leftover baby jogger we recently got rid of. They're 1.75 and I would have preferred 2.1s, but not gonna complain at this point. The stock tires were 1.5 I believe. 

The bike came in, but I got dinged pretty hard from ups. It was around 70 bucks in fees and I paid close to 35 for Purolator shipping. Not gonna tell the wifey about that one . 

Got it built up in a little over an hour with the tire swap. The most time was spent adjusting the brakes. With the new tires and no reflectors it's coming in at 15.8lbs. I think I weighed the hotrock 16 at 17.8lbs or somewhere close to that. 

Hopefully we'll be able to get a test ride in tonight. He hasn't seen it yet.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Bummer on the fees and dings! Any damage? 
Good score on the tires. Those should be great. Where are you, I was worried about fees but got lucky. I read that the standard Canadian post option was the best way to avoid them. What is Purolatir shipping?
Congrats, he's going to love it!
G


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## joe_j (Feb 21, 2014)

There was a little damage to the box, but the bike was fine. I'm in Los Angeles and I think Purolator is Canada's equivalent to UPS. I don't remember there being many options for shipping when I bought the bike. Oh well.

Weight difference is pretty noticeable even though the hotrock was pretty light to begin with. My son loves it.

First ride.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

I just got a 26t chainring for my daughter's Banshee. I know 2 teeth isn't much but I just want to take the edge off. 

I ran into an issue though. The stock chainring has holes big enough for the nuts (like the smaller ring on a 2x). The chainring I got was intended for the inner ring on a triple so it fits the bolts, not the nuts(since it was intended to bolt right to the crank spider).

Did you guys that swapped chainrings find some that were made for a 2x crank or did you reverse the bolts/nuts and shim them? Or some other magic I'm missing?

Thanks-
G


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

I found this.
http://forums.mtbr.com/families-rid...-spawn-banshee-need-smaller-bolts-858715.html


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## fireswamp (Nov 4, 2013)

fire_strom said:


> I found this.
> http://forums.mtbr.com/families-rid...-spawn-banshee-need-smaller-bolts-858715.html


I ended up using different bolts and spacers.


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## joe_j (Feb 21, 2014)

Took my 4 yr old to ride some dirt for the first time this past weekend. He did great, but i still need to play with the brakes. Trying to adjust the front so he can't lock it up so easily. Such a huge difference compared to the side pull brake he had on his hotrock.

Tempted to get the 2.4" wide kendas now.:madman:


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## sherpaxc (Aug 12, 2005)

Thanks to this thread I just bought the Banshee. We live in Austin and have plenty of hills. So from what I've read it looks like the 22 or 24 is working better than the stock 28? 
Ok, so those that have already done the research and have experience, what are the best
Tire (size)?
Chainring size?
Full face helmet/elbow pads?

He will use these for trails similar to the photo above, but with more rocks thrown in.

Thanks in advance for any help!


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Evs option mini pads are pretty nice. 

Fox also does some peewee pads. 

Seems like the evs pads are a little smaller than the fox peewee pads.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

sherpaxc said:


> Thanks to this thread I just bought the Banshee. We live in Austin and have plenty of hills. So from what I've read it looks like the 22 or 24 is working better than the stock 28?
> Ok, so those that have already done the research and have experience, what are the best
> Tire (size)?
> Chainring size?
> ...


Congrats! 
I just put a 26t chainring on. Too early to tell if it is small enough. I have a 3.6 y/o and she was doing ok with the 28t but her cadence was really slow. Only one ride since the change so we'll see.

I put very knobby 2.125" tire on and though it looked great it made the bike a little unwieldy. I could see her confidence dropping so I pulled them after a few days. I have another set of 2.125" tires comeing because I am a slow learner and the stock ones look so skinny. 
Here are the knobbys:
















Here are the others, they're Kenda. I think it is the BMX kontact tread:









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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

i went with schwalbe black jack 1.9's.

they seem plenty big,

my daughters still a little small for her banshee. if she had already known how to ride a bike, she'd prol be okay on it, but she doesnt have the confidence yet.

oh well. at least her 5 yr old sis likes the savage.


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## sherpaxc (Aug 12, 2005)

Thanks ya'll. I think I'll just put I different size freewheel on the flip flop hub. I'll have to look into what size is best. 

My son is 4.5 years old and will just barely fit this bike. He is quite a little guy and grows slow so I think we will have this thing for quite a while. I rides really well but was getting discouraged with his crappy rei 12 inch bike that weighed as much as him. I can't blame him. hopefully this works out well. I'll post pics when we get it.

BTW, how long did Spawn take to ship? I haven't really gotten any communication other than an email that they recieved my order.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

the banshee took almost a month, but i DID order it right around x-mas.

the savage took maybe 10 days, but i think it was more like a week. it arrived ALOT quicker than i expected.


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## sherpaxc (Aug 12, 2005)

ok thanks. Did they send you a tracking number or anything? Or let you know that it had shipped?


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Not even a hint.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

I pre-ordered a new banshee. After I noticed on their website that the order had been processed/shipped with no tracking label I used their contact page. Max said that CanadaPost was supposed to have sent a shipping notice, but he found me a tracking number regardless.

2 weeks later, after the bike arrived, I found the CanadaPost tracking notice in my google Spam folder. They sent it at the right time... I just didn't see it.


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## joe_j (Feb 21, 2014)

Mine took about five days to get to California. I got a tracking number as soon with my email stating my order was complete.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Hopefully the mtb god is smiling on me when I order a furi.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

I ordered a Savage 1.0 last week for my 5 year old son. Gotconfirmation and tracking number for Purolator from Spawn. The bike went from BC to Seattle and is making it's way across the USA now, estimated delivery is March 26, hopefully without any more fees.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

ilmfat said:


> Hopefully the mtb god is smiling on me when I order a furi.


My oldest got a Gremlin last summer... absolutely KILLER Bike. I hope yours loves the Furi as much.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Actually, I sourced some 85mm cranks (custom), and she can ride the banshee, tho the q-factor is atrocious. Gonna pick up some 89mm from spawn when they come in. 

That, coupled with a set of hope/gordos for my 29er, means no furi. 

But she gets better everyday on the banshee. 

Once again, THANK YOU SPAWN CYCLES!!!!!!!


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

My son's savage 1.0 20" arrived yesterday and I was more excited than when my Yelli frame arrived in 2012. What a great looking quality frame, the pictures on Spawn's site do not do it justice. Got it assembled and he rode it for fit for 10 minutes in the rain. When the weather improves will post some pictures.

If you are on the fence about one of these, don't worry--it's even better in-person and worth the extra money.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

I was surprised when I saw the chainstay yoke on the savage. 

That frame is made for serious work. 

I'm looking forward to the 24".


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

I want to order up a Banshee for my daughter, but all the colors except red are out of stock. We really want to get her the pink if the wait isn't too long (1-2 weeks).

I send spawn an email but no reply yet.

Anyone know the deal? Or does anyone have a good pic of the red color (is it a candy red?) - there is nothing on their website.

These spawn bikes look perfect! My daughter is already used to handbrakes on her OSET electric moto, so I'm over the moon that I can get her a light bike with no coaster brakes!!


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Steve,

I would recommend trying their web contact form, not eMail. Any time I've tried to reach them in the past I got a reply within 24 hours off the web form, but never from eMail. Their spam filter must not like my eMail address...


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

I used their web contact form (not email - sorry my bad). Guess I should be more patient, it's only been 20 hours.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Always possible they're swamped... they have the revamped Gremlin/Furi coming out any day now. But slow response is probably the one thing that I'd give them a minus on, alas. Wish they had a phone number... or a US dealer who could contact them for you.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

I think it depends on where they are in the delivery cycle. 

If they don't respond, they're probably building bikes. 

+1 to the -1 for communication. 

Words really starting to take off about them. I think they are on the cusp of expanding (just my guess), and that's always a rough transition. 

Here's hoping for an idaho shop to pick them up.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

They responded on my Facebook inquiry in about 3 hours.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

ilmfat said:


> I was surprised when I saw the chainstay yoke on the savage.
> 
> That frame is made for serious work.
> 
> I'm looking forward to the 24".


Right, on! I looked it over and told my wife the frame quality is like my bikes. I am so glad that I didn't settle for a boat anchor Trek or Specialized with useless "suspension" fork and that didn't fit as well.

There was a gamble with fit buying the Savage online but the frame design and that the seat drops down so far provides for a wide range of sizing. The fit range allows for my son to essentially sit only slightly higher than he was on his older 16" wheel balance bike, easy for him to touch the ground to dismount. there's no way he'd get that on a 20" specialized or Trek.


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## fireswamp (Nov 4, 2013)

*Successful 3-speed Banshee conversion*









Thanks to this thread and some help from Spawn, the above picture is my 5 year old's 3-speed Banshee. I was able to use the original handle bars (the X-5 shifter just barely fits between the bend in the bars and the brake lever).

The complete parts list for the 3-speed conversion is:
1) SRAM X-7 short cage 9-speed derailleur (with longer stop screw)
2) Problem Solver Chain Tensioner with Derailleur Hanger
3) SRAM chain
4) SRAM X-5 9-speed rear shifter
5) Cable housing and zip ties
6) 16,19,22 3-speed "scooter" rear freewheel

Unfortunately, screwing in the (custom/long) "low" stop screw far enough to stop the chain from derailing inward also interferes with the throw to the high gear, so the derailleur can over-shift. I would need to modify the derailleur cage to create something for the screw to hit against. As it is now, he can over-shift and throw the chain off of the low gear, but he can't shift into the spokes thanks to the shifter being in the lowest gear (it can't pull the cable any farther).

I also replaced the front chain ring with a 24T granny gear (required new bolts/spacers). The 24T/22T low gear is low enough he can get up a surprising number of hills. Lower would be better, but it's a balance with the high gearing for the flats.

I'll keep dreaming that Spawn will someday make a 7-speed or 9-speed 16" bike, but until then, this is a great setup.

Thanks to all who posted about their 3-speed conversions.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

awesome!


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## FreeHeelFreeRide (Mar 18, 2005)

Just wanted to share the latest modifications to my sons Banshee. Got the bike last spring- and added a new flipflop hub with 3 speeds and derailleur. The extra gears definitely helped him cover more trail with less walking, but the spread just wasn't big enough to offer significant help for climbing. So this spring I added a 2nd chainring. Now he has a 22 tooth inside the original 29(?) tooth. Went with thumb shifters as he didn't like the grip shifts on his brothers bike. I tried just running the 22 tooth as a single chainring, but he would redline on flat ground/driveway riding with his friends and get frustrated. While he isn't comfortable shifting on the fly yet, we can put it in the 22 tooth for trail riding, then click to the 29 tooth for downhills or flat bike paths. Going from 22 to 29 has had much more impact than the small difference available in the 3-speed free hub/cassette. This thread has been a HUGE help in my project, hope my post/picture might inspire or assist others in their efforts. My son just turned 6, but is only 37 pounds dripping wet with a full stomach. He has the balance and skills to rip up the trails, but his small size makes the hill climbing tough. And here in Vermont, you can't really go anywhere without some climbing. I know there isn't much of a market for 16" bikes with 7+ speeds in back, but room for a wider hub/cassette would be nice in my situation. After a year of backyard wrenching on the Spawn, I'm still super impressed with their quality design and manufacturing. Everything has held up to my ham-fisted adjustments and wrenching.


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## fireswamp (Nov 4, 2013)

That is inspiring, FreeHeel! 

I'm in a similar situation with my 5.5 year old being a little guy with enough coordination/skill to ride a 1x9 or 2x10 bike, everywhere we ride is hills, but he's not big enough to fit a 20". Before doing the 3-speed Banshee conversion, I thought that a 2x setup up-front would be better ("one climbing gear and one for-the-flats gear), but I wasn't sure how to execute it. A few questions:

1) How did you attach the 2nd chain ring, correct spacing, etc?

2) Can you post close-up pictures of the chain ring setup?

3) Any tips on front derailleur type?

4) Which 3-speed freewheel did you use? There are a few different size options out there. The lowest gear combo I found is the 16,19,22.


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## FreeHeelFreeRide (Mar 18, 2005)

Hi Fireswamp, the 22-tooth chainring attached quite easily. I had some slightly longer chainring bolts kicking around, and just by luck had some washers that must have been designed for the purpose, because they separated the two chain rings so that it shifts just fine. I wish I had some exact dimensions to give you, but since they were just in the spare parts box in my basement from some previous bike I don't know the exact sizes. They almost certainly came off a old mountain bike of mine- nothing special. The front derailleur came out of the same box- I think it is just a top pull LX. I also had some plastic wedges/spacers that went around the seat tube to make the derailleur fit. Re: the 3-speed freewheel, I got the one that others had mentioned earlier in this thread. I can't remember the name, but I'll see if I can find it in my Amazon/Ebay account and let you know. I'll snap some more photos and count the teeth when I get home tonight.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

I wonder if you could respace the frame to 120mm, if you could find an old 5/6-speed freewheel hub. E.g. Shimano has a 14-28T 6 speed freewheel cassette, if you could find the hub to go with it.

I wonder if you can re-space an aluminum frame the way you can a steel one...


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## FreeHeelFreeRide (Mar 18, 2005)

Fireswamp, sorry for the delay... hectic week. I did buy the Como 16-19-22 freewheel off Amazon. In my opinion it is the weak link here- it is heavy and has a fair amount of drag. What can you expect for $10? I notice it every time I back pedal his bike to clean the chain, or turn the pedals with my hand to shift gears for him. As I've thought more about this, I think if I did it all over again I'd keep the stock Spawn hub in back and try a 2 chainring set up in front. I think you might be able to find a 20 tooth ring, and then use the stock 29. I spent a lot of time and about $25 to buy a 29 tooth that was advertised as being "ramped and pined" because I thought it would help in shifting from the 22 up to the 29. Most 28 and 29 tooth rings are designed to be on the inside most position- not middle ring. Orgin8 had one that the website said was ramped and pinned- I found one on ebay, but when it arrived it had no ramps/pins. So I ended up using the ring that came on the bike and it shifts just fine. Lesson learned. The clamp on cable stop for the front derailleur came from Orgin8, 28.6mm. It was super simple- works fine. As for the chainring spacers- as I said I just got lucky that what I had worked. I'm guessing they came off an old 3 ring LX or XT crankset I had, bolts and spacers. I think I had to put the bolts in from the frame size, due to diameter of the nut and how it has to fit in the holes inthe chainrings- so if you can't get it to work from the crank arm side just try from the other direction. Re: the front derailleur, it is just a top pull LX. You will need some shims/spacers to fill out the space from the smallish seat tupe to the inside diameter of the derailleur clamp. If you buy it new you'll probably get what you need in the box- or your LBS can probably find in in the box of extras.

Hope that helps, good luck!


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## split (Jan 12, 2004)

Is this a 1" headset, threadless? What size seatpost does it take? Thanks.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

1 1/8.

25.4


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## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

For those ordering for the US, did you have to pay a duty on top of shipping? Which shipping method?

Thanks


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

I went with Canada post express, and did not have to pay duty. I've heard others say that UPS did result in a customs fee.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Ditto.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Im pretty sure ups ground was my only option for the savage. 

No duties on banshee or savage.

Ymmv.


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## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

Thanks to all. Placing order today. They are backordered until late June, so fingers crossed for a speedy delivery.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Amom said:


> For those ordering for the US, did you have to pay a duty on top of shipping? Which shipping method?
> 
> Thanks


My Savage was shipped by Purolator, which may have become UPS in the U.S.? I don't recall who showed up at the door. There were no additional shipping charges or taxes when it arrived. It travelled from Vancouver BC to Fairfax, VA, in about 2 weeks, maybe a little under that, ground shipping.


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## split (Jan 12, 2004)

What kind of bottom bracket is this, 68 threaded English? Mine (er...his) Banshee is on its way and I'm already thinking about upgrades. It's an illness.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Does anyone know the hub width of the first gen Banshee? Is it 110mm like the new Banshee?

I'm sort of thinking i might try to get an IGH if I can find one in the correct width. I forget if I've read in this thread if anyone tried this or not.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Thats a darn good idea.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

I just took a look, and Sturmey-Archer has some 5 speed IGHs at 111mm; I can't see that 1mm would be a problem anywhere...

S-RF5(N)
• 5 Speed low flange, internal gear hub without brake (freewheel)
• Available in either 119mm or 111mm over locknut
• Now available with a 9 spline driver
• New wide gear ratio of 256%

EDIT: Darn; now I want to get one for my daughter...


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Yep, Sturmey Archer is what I found! They list that 5 speed 111mm OLD and a three speed hub with 108 mm OLD. Spoke hole count is different but I'm assuming that's the existing rim will be ok given that they are just lightweight little kids.

grip shift and trigger shifter available for both the five and the three speed. 

my bike shop is looking into sourcing the bits for me and getting me pricing info and they will let me know, I will post up the results if it is successful!

Edit: many typos due to voice typing on cell phone


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Please do, XJaredX... although I must note that, once again, you are tempting me to spend money on bicycles! My daughter's birthday is in August; Maybe I'll get a new wheel laced up for her as a birthday present. Only problem I can see is fitting the shifter on the stock bars, since she already has a bell on there. Maybe I can move the bell to her left side, and have it work backwards...

WHat's the gear range on the 3-speed hub? The 5-speed was somewhere around 250%, which is pretty good.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

I'm having trouble scrolling the specifications window on my phone but I think it is 177% for the three speeds. I'll keep you updated even if it is a failure, lol


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## split (Jan 12, 2004)

I got a Banshee last night, took it apart, and weighed each component. Hey, I'm a weight weenie at heart. If you're interested, I posted it in the WW forum: http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenies/spawn-cycles-banshee-16-weights-917945.html

Frame = 1081g or 2.4 lbs


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

XJaredX: You win.

I have asked my LBS to spec an SRF-5 16" wheel for me. We'll see if they can source the part... The only US website that lists the 111mm hub is Bike Tools etc., and it is out of stock at the moment. Per eMail, they will not have more for "several months." Here's hoping my LBS can see about squeezing one out of UBS or another distributer.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Haha! I was just at my LBS for something unrelated after asking them yesterday to search for a hub, and they aren't having any luck either. This might be tricky!


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

I am exploring the idea of ordering (gasp) direct from China if my LBS can't find anything.

Place that will drill a 28 hole 16" rim:

Online Shop 16" Aluminum alloy bicycle rims,Colorful Anodized/Powder coating Available, Free Shipping!|Aliexpress Mobile

...and eBay China has wheels built with the SRF5 (for a Brompton) but I am unsure if the rim width is acceptable. And unsure if I am confident enough in trusting eBay China


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Or just wait until they come in stock again at BTE? Can't hurt to email and ask them about it...

Personally, I wouldn't trust ebay china (without living in china)


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Instead of eBay China, I'd pay the premium to get it from SJS Cycles in England. $50 more than ordering from a US distributer, but a reputable company instead of a foreign-country eBay? Simple question to me.

Sturmey Archer 5 Speed SRF5

Just make sure you get the 28 hole version...

Couple that with a 28h wheel like This one from Niagra Cycle, and you should be good to go for $300 or so. (Just need spokes and wheel-building)


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Oooh, thanks, that helps! I'd rather not go the asian route unless I absolutely have to.


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

I rode a Rohloff 14 gear Speedhub for 5+ years on a 42# all-mountain Santa Cruz Bullit, and there is no way I would put something like that on my kid's bike. It was heavy, and it was so inefficient with so much drag. I went from barely hanging on a pedally ride with a buddy, to squashing him the next week when I went back to a conventional drivetrain with everything else the same on the Bullit. Range is awesome, but efficiency is much more important, especially for little guys/gals. My 3.5 year old is about ready to start riding the Banshee, and I'm going to get rid of the crappy 3 speed rear, and go to the 2 speed front FreeHeel talks about above. Would much rather prefer to put a real rear hub and cassette on back, but it's all about compromises.


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## split (Jan 12, 2004)

Where are you guys sourcing your 16" rims from? I need one in black.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

I haven't sourced any parts, as of yet... but, that said, I would check with your LBS. They should be able to order whatever you need... The link I posted for niagra cycle above has a full wheel built with a black rim; you could always cut out the hub.

Regarding efficiency... that's not, honestly, even close to the top of my concerns for my daughter right now. Gear range is MUCH more important right now... who cares how fast she can do something, when the alternative is not to do it at all? She constantly spins out on the flats where we ride, but the minute she tries to go up any moderately steep hills, she's stuck and can't get up. Her legs just don't have the strength yet. If I can give her a gear range that let her climb up the steeper hills like she wants, and not spin out on the flats, I'll jump at the chance. The fact that the IGH lets her shift at a dead stop is a really great bonus, too... no worries about having stopped in high gear and can't get going again.

Max at Spawn noted that a rear derailer on a banshee sits about 3" off the ground... that sounds like it's just asking to be clipped or destroyed. Especially since she bangs her bike around a lot. She's a kid; that's the name of the game. I'm more than happy to sacrifice the 2% or so efficiency in return for the robustness and gear range.

Of course, your mileage (and child) may vary. Frankly, if I didn't have 2nd daughter coming behind for the bike, I might not bother, and just wait for her to grow into a 20" bike that's made for rear gears. But with a second coming behind, it's an upgrade that will pay off for quite a while to come.

Still waiting to hear back from my LBS on what they can source. Worst case, I'll source parts and try my hand at wheel building.


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## split (Jan 12, 2004)

A few upgrades.


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## onespeedpaul (Apr 13, 2006)

split said:


> A few upgrades.


Most upgraded yet! Why no front brake though?

All I've done to our little one is swap out the front chainring for 22T and the tires for 2.25 comp III style...


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## split (Jan 12, 2004)

The fork is made for a 20" wheel with disc brakes. I want to find a 16" black rim to build up a disc wheel. And I figured it would be better to start with a powerful rear brake than to give him so much stopping power in the front.

I found this picture and was inspired:


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

Split, can you tell me more about that fork? Looks like exactly what I want for my daughter's 20" bike. Where you got it, weight, cost?

And why can't you just reuse the rim that is on there now for the new front wheel? That is what I did when I built a new wheel around the rear flip-flop hub talked about several pages before. Seemed to be decent rims.


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## trap121 (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm also curious about the fork and handle bars.


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## split (Jan 12, 2004)

BullSCit said:


> Split, can you tell me more about that fork? Looks like exactly what I want for my daughter's 20" bike. Where you got it, weight, cost?
> 
> And why can't you just reuse the rim that is on there now for the new front wheel? That is what I did when I built a new wheel around the rear flip-flop hub talked about several pages before. Seemed to be decent rims.


The fork is an eXotic carbon 20" recumbent/folding/kids fork with disc brakes, got it on ebay for $150. Online shop at carboncycles.cc (CarbonCycles.CC :: Components :: Products :: Forks - Recumbent / Folder / Child Bike :: eXotic Carbon Rigid Fork for 20 Inch Wheel - Disc Only :: CC-F03-20).

I could re-use the rim, but didn't want him to go without a bike while it was being built. We'll see.


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

evandy said:


> Regarding efficiency... that's not, honestly, even close to the top of my concerns for my daughter right now. Gear range is MUCH more important right now... who cares how fast she can do something, when the alternative is not to do it at all? She constantly spins out on the flats where we ride, but the minute she tries to go up any moderately steep hills, she's stuck and can't get up. Her legs just don't have the strength yet. If I can give her a gear range that let her climb up the steeper hills like she wants, and not spin out on the flats, I'll jump at the chance. The fact that the IGH lets her shift at a dead stop is a really great bonus, too... no worries about having stopped in high gear and can't get going again.
> 
> Max at Spawn noted that a rear derailer on a banshee sits about 3" off the ground... that sounds like it's just asking to be clipped or destroyed. Especially since she bangs her bike around a lot. She's a kid; that's the name of the game. I'm more than happy to sacrifice the 2% or so efficiency in return for the robustness and gear range.
> 
> ...


Evandy,

Everyone and their children are definitely different, and I applaud you for taking a different approach. It also depends on where and how you ride. The trails that we ride are usually big climbs and then downhills, with little ups and downs in between. So my 3 year old has enough leg strength to get most of the small ups, but even with the lowest gear in the world, couldn't make the climbs. That is why we use this:

http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/new-way-get-kids-uphill-807083.html

This is my daughter when we first starting using it, and I have refined the product and it is simpler and less prone to breaking. My daughter can now ride almost every ride without being towed, and I think a lot of that is from the use of this system when she was younger.

The other thing that I didn't like with the IGH, was it was even hard for me to shift at times. Maybe it was because mine was used pretty roughly, but it wasn't even easy to shift when I first got it. Hopefully the one you get is better than the Rohloff in that way.

And what I read was that the Rohloff was 5x more inefficient than a conventional chain/chainring system (99% vs 95%). It's like pedaling in sand. It'll just wear their little legs out that much faster. Again, that is why I like the tow system above, they can pedal when they want to, but they still have to work on steering and balance and braking. And on the uphills, loss of efficiency is like adding weight to the bike.

Best of luck, and I hope it turns out for the best - BS


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## split (Jan 12, 2004)

trap121 said:


> I'm also curious about the fork and handle bars.


Race Face Atlas 1 1/4" riser bar. Matching Race Race Atlas 50 mm stem and Race Face Half Nelson ODI grips.


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## CDK (Oct 1, 2013)

Those are some pretty sweet custom setups!
I'm dieing over here waiting for "late June" to get here so I can order one for my daughter. I don't really want to preorder one because their communication skills are horrible and I don't really trust that they will have enough bikes when "late June" gets here.


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Here's our gear experiment. 2x1. 
The derailleur is just for tension. The big ring is the stock one in the bash guard spot with a 22t in the original ring position. 
Shifting is done by grown up, manually. 
She's been asking for a faster gear. She spins out the 22t on the flats. 
The cheapo derailleur puts lot of drag on the system. Not sure if it is the bushings instead of bearings in the pulleys or the really over stiff spring in the arm pivot. We'll see how it goes. 
If she otherwise likes it I will try to address the drag. 
The derailleur weights 279g and cost $15. Shimano Tourney TL35. 
I tried using the Alfine two pulley tensioner but the chain line was too far off. 
She turns 4 in two days.


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## split (Jan 12, 2004)

fire_strom said:


> Here's our gear experiment. 2x1.
> The derailleur is just for tension. The big ring is the stock one in the bash guard spot with a 22t in the original ring position.
> Shifting is done by grown up, manually.
> She's been asking for a faster gear. She spins out the 22t on the flats.
> ...


Nice work! Curious, what BCD is the front crank and where can I get a replacement chainring?


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

64bcd. The trick is that the bolt holes for inner chain rings are smaller diameter since they normally thread directly into the crank spider. On the Spawn the stock chain ring has bigger holes, normal sized for passing the nut. To use a different chainring put the bolts in from the non drive side.


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

fire_strom said:


> The cheapo derailleur puts lot of drag on the system. Not sure if it is the bushings instead of bearings in the pulleys or the really over stiff spring in the arm pivot. We'll see how it goes.
> If she otherwise likes it I will try to address the drag.
> The derailleur weights 279g and cost $15. Shimano Tourney TL35.
> I tried using the Alfine two pulley tensioner but the chain line was too far off.


Oooh I like the dual chainring idea, versus 3 spd in the rear. My goal is to setup my Spawn Furi so my son can ride uphill better on trail days.

EDIT: hmm... is it possible to remove to top pulley (and sacrifice a bit of chain wrap) to lessen the drag?


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

It is pretty clean. I have found that she is actually slower in the fast gear. She is little and just barely 4 so in the fast gear she looses cadence. She lacks the torque to push the fast gear at the same rate as she can on the easy. It is better for her when she stands to pedal but that is still not a super stable, frequently used technique. 

The single pull could help. I'll have to look into that. For now, since the drag isn't too bad in the easy gear I am going to just leave it there. 

G


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

Here's my first try at fire_storm's idea, on my son's Furi (14" version of Banshee)
- 22T chainring I had lying around, drilled out to enlarge bolt holes
- stock chainring bolts and spacers
- stock chainring in place of bashguard
- stock chain
- Shimano SIS der hanger adaptor
- Axiom No-railleur tensioner

I'm not happy with the drag that the tensioner introduces, despite my attempts to align it with chainline. It's not much but it's notable. I'll try tweaking it later via taking apart the tensioner to see if I can lesson the spring tension. (EDIT: I drilled new holes in the tensioner for the spring to mount in a looser position, but anything less than stock led to the chain falling off when dropping the bike, etc)

I'd also like to get some more chainring spacers to add the bashring back in since my son often rides with long pants on. (EDIT: This could also help improve chainline to both chainrings, as the stock position is ideal and the outer ring is off by 5mm - I'd like to shoot for chainline to be right between the two chainrings).


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## trap121 (Mar 7, 2011)

split said:


> The fork is an eXotic carbon 20" recumbent/folding/kids fork with disc brakes, got it on ebay for $150. Online shop at carboncycles.cc (CarbonCycles.CC :: Components :: Products :: Forks - Recumbent / Folder / Child Bike :: eXotic Carbon Rigid Fork for 20 Inch Wheel - Disc Only :: CC-F03-20).
> 
> I could re-use the rim, but didn't want him to go without a bike while it was being built. We'll see.


 Did you have to use that fork to set up the bike with the race face gear?


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

To get rid of the tensioner drag, you could set it up as a "dinglespeed". Probably best to use 22T and 24T chainrings (or maybe 24t & 28t for more gear range), then make a 2-speed freewheel from an old 5-speed freewheel. Set it up with 2 rear cogs also with a 2T (or 4t if using 24/28) difference and align their chainline with the crank chainrings. This gives you two separate chainlines and gears that both use the same length chain. You could get rid of the tensioner but you will need to loosen the rear wheel each time in order to change gears. Might work OK to leave the tensioner in and setup the chain with only just enough slack to change gears, then have the tensioner help keep it from skipping, wouldnt need as much assistance from the tensioner if chain length were constant.







Here is a similar 3x drivetrain I implemented with a triple crank using 30t, 34t and 38t chainrings and a 16, 20, 24t freewheel.


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestion GrayJay!

BTW, I started a new thread documenting my 'final' implementation:

http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/spawn-furi-14-mod-adding-another-gear-922629.html


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## CDK (Oct 1, 2013)

Banshee came today! I was a little worried about it maybe being too big for my daughter because she is very small for her age in the 15% 38.5" tall with a 15.5" inseam. Fits just fine! Hopefully that can help others with sizing the bike to their kids.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

i'm diggin that bar.


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## CDK (Oct 1, 2013)

Haha looks familiar huh? Color option and price works. Went low rise which looks to be perfect for her.
When we opened the box with the bike today she looked at me with a bit of a sour face and said "its not purple! I said i wanted purple!" I thought that the bar would be enough..Funny stuff these kids are.

Thanks again for the advice in our convo!


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## northernblades (Jul 22, 2011)

Mileage may vary, however my 2 bits. I have a last generation Banshee, My daughter is 40" tall. As of right now, I check every couple weeks to see if she has grown into it. also roughly a 15 inch inseam. it is still quite unwieldy for her.

But yes IMHO by 40 inch / 16 inch inseam getting pretty close.


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## CDK (Oct 1, 2013)

yeah the new banshees are "shorter and stouter" as spawn puts it


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## northernblades (Jul 22, 2011)

sharing


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

northernblades said:


> sharing
> View attachment 910163


Hey, that's the helmet my oldest started with on her Gremlin last year... and she has a Blue Banshee now.


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## northernblades (Jul 22, 2011)

It sounds funny and as a dad, I know some things I need to let go. But I absolutely hate that helmet. It was not on sale, batter helmets were on sale. IMHO the better helmets were WAY better helmets. The better ones fir better, looked better, and were a more expensive helmet for the same price.

Kid loves blue
Kids loves pigs.
Space pigs. OMG

"do you want this helmet, or that helmet (omittiting the pig helmet as even a choice)
walks over picks up pig helmet. THIS ONE"

I sold my little one on








as my eldest loves blue, I did everything I could to talk her into 








The specialised helmets have a welded seam (instead of taped)
a larger size range.
are physically smaller
and IMHO more attractive

than their Giro rodeo counterpart.

Now to sell giro, No helmet will ever be as cool as the xen best helmet ever.

flipping astro pigs go figure 








the outer shell is not attached to the core, sticking your finger in the top holes results in a one way barbed hole, and it will cut fingers.

Children will be children. pigs. derp pigs.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Heh. Both my girls have Nutcase Watermelon helmets now... much nicer helmet. Plus they can put them on and take them off themselves, thanks to the magnet clasp.


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## northernblades (Jul 22, 2011)

if they were not absolutely terrible helmets I would love 
MET Parachute, or a giro Switchblade.

but neither one gets any positive reaction in any way shape or form.

Also wondering if anyone hase ever thought of a face shield








think abut something like this. maybe made of carbon fiber.

if you hit your face on the bar or the ground. It will still hurt.... it may give you 2 black eyes, it may even break your jaw....

but it will not knock out every tooth in your head.


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

Just got my son a Banshee after debating it for a bit (and waiting for them to come back in stock).

First time he rode it, first time for him riding with hand brakes: I got the bike out of the back of the car for him and he went OTB almost instantly. This is despite me setting up the front brake very lightly and me telling him it could happen. I was pretty sure it would happen at some point, just thought it would take longer than 20 seconds.

So, the brakes work really well. Something in the drivetrain is pretty out of round and I had to reduce the chain tension quite a bit to get it to spin smoothly. I don't think my kid's in danger of throwing a chain, though.

A couple of things I've noticed about the bike that I'd not read elsewhere:

1. The bars are pretty wide and the bend is pretty far out. So, no moving the brake levers in and/or cutting down the bars. I think this is ok, since it's not like you're going to get a 4 or 5 y.o. to use 1 finger braking anyway, but just know that it's "all finer" braking.

2. I was hoping the q-factor would be nice and narrow compared to bikes with 1 piece cranks. I'd wager a wide q-factor makes a much bigger difference with short cranks and the little legs that go with them when it comes to making it hard to climb hills. However, the "bash guard" + spacers puts the chainring pretty far inboard of crank to get the straight chain line. I'm considering taking off the guard and swapping to a shorter spindle cranks (might even have an XTR-level UN-91 circa 1994 somewhere in my basement). I do like having the guard for protecting his leg from the chain, though.

He's having a blast on the bike so far and seems to notice that it's lighter. Somewhere between that and the gearing, he's cranking up hills decently. Still need to get the braking intuitive and take him out on the trails.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Well, I bit the bullet and ordered an SRF-5 111mm hub from SJS Cycles in England today. Daughter's birthday is this coming Friday; doubt it'll be here (much the less built into a wheel) by B-Day, but we'll see...

Once it arrives, I'll do a test-fit in the frame and give you some pics.


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## CDK (Oct 1, 2013)

My daughter is still loving her Banshee and riding everyday. We have a lot of goat heads here in Phoenix and I got tired of patching the tubes every other day so she went tubeless. I originally bought tubeless threaded shrader valves from chain reaction cycle's and gorilla tape but the tires had trouble seating and I had to work all weekend so I just dropped it off at the lbs and he tried the same set up with them to no avail and then tried a 14in tube ghetto set up that worked perfect.:thumbsup: 
It pretty funny how excited my 4 year old was that her tires are tubeless


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## CDK (Oct 1, 2013)

So I was messing around with the banshee a bit today and agree about something not right in the drivetrain but I think it is more that the freewheel just is kind of crappy. Does anyone know if a White Industries ENO freewheel will work on this bike?


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Hub is here; pictures soon. Trying to determine all the measurements I need for spokes... The tire says it's ETRTO size 40-305; does that mean it's 305mm ERD? Or do I need to measure the rim to ensure I get a new one (different hole pattern) that's compatible?

I suppose I can take the hub and rear wheel to the bike shop for them to measure, if needed...


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

CDK said:


> So I was messing around with the banshee a bit today and agree about something not right in the drivetrain but I think it is more that the freewheel just is kind of crappy. Does anyone know if a White Industries ENO freewheel will work on this bike?


Not 100% certain, but I think the stock freewheel is 13T? Standard freewheels only go down to 16T and would probably fit on the opposite side of the hub (again, not certain, but I'd assume it's a flip flop hub with different threadings on each side)


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

it is different sizes on each side.


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

CDK said:


> So I was messing around with the banshee a bit today and agree about something not right in the drivetrain but I think it is more that the freewheel just is kind of crappy. Does anyone know if a White Industries ENO freewheel will work on this bike?


Mine had the same problem, the front chainring is not round, I swapped it for a 22 tooth xt chain ring from my 9 speed and lost some weight and it was round again. Plus my kid could actually pedal uphill to boot.


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## Dqook (Sep 18, 2013)

I got my son the 20" carbon concepts fork from ebay, a deore 32h front hub and a sunringle 16" 32h wheel i found on amazon. Admitidly a little more than i wanted to spend but still cool that he will have a hydraulic front disc brake. Still have to get the wheel built but theres no rush because i wont pick up the bike until mid september ill post pics when everything is done!
-DQ


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

Dqook said:


> I got my son the 20" carbon concepts fork from ebay, a deore 32h front hub and a sunringle 16" 32h wheel i found on amazon. Admitidly a little more than i wanted to spend but still cool that he will have a hydraulic front disc brake. Still have to get the wheel built but theres no rush because i wont pick up the bike until mid september ill post pics when everything is done!
> -DQ


What are you using for a rear brake? Hopefully it is hydraulic as well... I've spent some time riding behind my 5 year old on his commecal Ramones 20, and a friends daughter on her savage 2.0 on the sidewinder trail in south lake tahoe, front brakes where not used by either, but tons of rear braking


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## Dqook (Sep 18, 2013)

Im leaving the rear stock because i dont want to have to weld mounts on the frame. I figure i would adjust the rear brake so it has less bite and kinda let the boy learn to use the front brake on his own. Trick the boy into some good habits. We will see the outcome later.


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

Dqook said:


> Im leaving the rear stock because i dont want to have to weld mounts on the frame. I figure i would adjust the rear brake so it has less bite and kinda let the boy learn to use the front brake on his own. Trick the boy into some good habits. We will see the outcome later.


Good luck, I've debated taking the front brake off, the young ones just don't have the strength to keep the bike in line under front braking. The banshee rear break was ok, but when my son moved up to the 20 inch bike disc brakes made a world of difference in how long he can ride. Comparing to a friends hot rock they are not in the same league.


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## Dqook (Sep 18, 2013)

My son is barely 2 and a half so the ammount of heavy braking he will be doing will be minimal. He is getting a bit big for the strider but still rides it. I have a feeling that we will be switching the bike with the strider back and fourth until he gets comfortable on the banshee. I got him a short stem and flat bar so i think he should sit pretty well. Again time will tell and we will adjust. Any pics of your kid's bike?


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

Dqook said:


> My son is barely 2 and a half so the ammount of heavy braking he will be doing will be minimal. He is getting a bit big for the strider but still rides it. I have a feeling that we will be switching the bike with the strider back and fourth until he gets comfortable on the banshee. I got him a short stem and flat bar so i think he should sit pretty well. Again time will tell and we will adjust. Any pics of your kid's bike?


This weekends outing, the girls are adams (he posted earlier in this thread about banshees and shifting) one is on a banshee the other on a savage, mine is on his ramones. My daughter has a banshee as well but we didn't bring her with us...

Here is some video of riding down sidewinder this weekend:
Sean and Aluara on sidewinder - YouTube
Sean riding his banshee on his pump track in the back yard:
Sean first ride on the pump track - YouTube


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## Dqook (Sep 18, 2013)

Awesome backyard! Thanks


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## fireswamp (Nov 4, 2013)

Hi All,
FYI, I recently found a low-rise replacement handlebar for the Banshee that does not require swapping stems. It is a 2" rise, BMX 1-piece "micro" bar with a stem clamp diameter compatible with the stock stem. The stock brake levers, stock grips, and add-on X-5 rear shifter went on just fine.

Alloy 2-Inch Micro Black Handlebars | FLY Racing | Professional grade Motocross, BMX, MTB, Offroad, ATV, Snowmobile, and Watercraft apparel and hard parts
Got mine for $30 at Danscomp.

FWIW, note that the FlyRacing red color does not at all match the Banshee red.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

evandy said:


> Well, I bit the bullet and ordered an SRF-5 111mm hub ...


My LBS has been looking for a 305mm rim with a 28-hole drilling. After about 2 weeks of searching, they can only find a steel one. I dropped the hub off with them to get measured and spokes cut. They don't have a spoke threader, so it may get sent out to Sapim, I'm told. Hopefully I'll have everything back in a couple weeks.


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## trap121 (Mar 7, 2011)

I just placed an order for a green banshee. Really excited for my son. His 12in hotrock has been put through the ringer and is on its last leg. 

Are there any upgrades that need to be done immediately? To run some new bars what size stem fits the steerer?


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## fireswamp (Nov 4, 2013)

trap121 said:


> I just placed an order for a green banshee. Really excited for my son. His 12in hotrock has been put through the ringer and is on its last leg.
> 
> Are there any upgrades that need to be done immediately? To run some new bars what size stem fits the steerer?


Congrats and welcome to the club. Immediate upgrades to consider:
1) Replace tires with something with dirt tread (lots of details earlier in this thread)

2) If you want lower-rise bars (definitely improved things for my kid) and don't want to swap the stem, see my post above about the Fly Racing 2" riser bar that fits the stock stem. Alloy 2-Inch Micro Black Handlebars | FLY Racing | Professional grade Motocross, BMX, MTB, Offroad, ATV, Snowmobile, and Watercraft apparel and hard parts. $30 at Danscomp.

Good luck.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

trap121 said:


> Are there any upgrades that need to be done immediately?


There is one and only one required upgrade when you get the bike... just add a rider.


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## Dqook (Sep 18, 2013)

I think if you do want to add something i would go with a stem and handlebar. I got my little boy a SHORT Stem from ebay for $7 the quality seems good cnc aluminum and it looks good. I also found a carbon fiber flat bar for $20. The kid is 3 years old so i dont think he needs race spec parts and it will be nice to shed some weight and get the handlebars at a better position for him. Good luck!


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

trap121 said:


> Are there any upgrades that need to be done immediately?


is it flat where you live? If there are any hills I recommend lowering the gearing to get some low end grunt, he won't miss the high speeds.


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## trap121 (Mar 7, 2011)

tkavan01 said:


> is it flat where you live? If there are any hills I recommend lowering the gearing to get some low end grunt, he won't miss the high speeds.


We have some hills, nothing big though.

Can someone tell me what size the steerer is?? 1 1/8?


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## fire_strom (Sep 4, 2009)

Steer tube is 1 1/8". The handlebar clamp is 7/8".
Enjoy
-G


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## CDK (Oct 1, 2013)

evandy said:


> There is one and only one required upgrade when you get the bike... just add a rider.


+1

Stock gearing my daughter hits 14mph on flat ground before she cant spin any faster. It is very flat around where I live so its a bit easy for me to say but I would recommend keeping gearing the same and teach the kids how to generate power standing up. They will have a little trouble on steep hills but there is nothing wrong with walking up those. At 30lbs my daughter doesn't have enough weight to put on the pedals for steep stuff but has built some pretty impressive calf muscles since she got her bike and generates a decent amount of power now.


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

CDK said:


> +1
> 
> Stock gearing my daughter hits 14mph on flat ground before she cant spin any faster. It is very flat around where I live so its a bit easy for me to say but I would recommend keeping gearing the same and teach the kids how to generate power standing up. They will have a little trouble on steep hills but there is nothing wrong with walking up those. At 30lbs my daughter doesn't have enough weight to put on the pedals for steep stuff but has built some pretty impressive calf muscles since she got her bike and generates a decent amount of power now.


At 30 pounds all these kids have is spinning, watching them stand and try to stomp through a climb is actually dangerous, I've seen more falls at a near standstill while losing balance... but I'm sure for flat areas it is perfect


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## trap121 (Mar 7, 2011)

How are the stock pedals? Does anyone have recommendations on shoes that stick to the pedals kind a like the adult size 510s? My boy (5yo) has a hard time keeping his feet on the pedals when going off jumps or drops


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

Teva® Crank C | Performance Mountain Biking Shoes at Teva.com

I have these for my 4yo..they work well but

Five Ten | FREERIDER KIDS

5.10 makes the freerider all the way down to size 10.5


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## trap121 (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm gonna buy the 510's. Any suggestions on pedals for that small of a bike?


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

I have 2 girls, so its whatever came in pink 

Search for BMX MINI pedals in 9/16 spindle. there are lots of options although my 5 yo on her savage uses full size pedals

Universal Cycles -- Fyxation Gates Slim Platform Pedal


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## trap121 (Mar 7, 2011)

Any particular reason yours rides full size? Any benefit?


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## adamm3 (Mar 26, 2007)

Not really...they were in the garage and gives them more pedal to keep their feet on. The ones i linked are thin which keeps them from clipping rocks, etc


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## OldManBike (Apr 16, 2011)

I recently bought my 4 y.o. daughter a Banshee, so here's my experience just to add another data point.

My daughter's having a blast. This is her first big-kid bike, before she had both a strider and a training-wheel bike. She picked up balancing & pedaling & handbrakes pretty quickly. She loves to ride it.

I'm running the bike stock. To my eye, none of the parts are crying out for an upgrade. The crank Q-factor does seem wider than ideal, but whatever.

I wasn't impressed with the quality of the assembly and packing. Our bike arrived with a way-out-of-true wheel, a big ding in the paint, and a sloppily-assembled rear wheel (the freewheel was too loose so the wheel locked up). Not at all what I expected when I dropped $400 on a kid's bike. But Spawn was responsive by email and refunded some money, so in the end it was a hassle but their response was appropriate.

Size-wise, I was concerned my 4 year-old (a smallish girl) might outgrow the Banshee too soon, but my concern was unfounded. She's at the small end for fitting this bike (seat slammed, riser bars rotated back) and I don't expect her to outgrow it any time soon. 

Color-wise, I'm pleased. I loathe pink for girls, but my kid doesn't share my view, so pink we got. In person, it's a rich magenta not a frilly pink. Think girl-badass not little princess. She's happy, I'm happy.

Bottom line, the Banshee was a good choice for us, and I'm looking forward to a lot of fun for us both.


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## Dqook (Sep 18, 2013)

Finaly got the boy his banshee. Got a short ebay stem and ebay carbon flat bars. He seems just a hair small for it but i think he will soon pick it up. Having a harder time pedaling than i thought he would but practice will make perfect.
I have a disc 16" wheel that ill be putting toghether along with a carbon 20" fork and an hydro slx brake, as soon as he grows a little and gets comfy with the bike.


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## trap121 (Mar 7, 2011)

We had an issue with one of the fork dropouts being bent and some scuffs on the fork leg when it arrived, despite the box being in perfect condition. I contacted Max at Spawn and he replied within an hour or so and was quick to fix the issue. He shipped out a new fork immediately. Even with that issue I would not hesitate to buy from them again. My boys skills and pedaling have taken off almost instantly. He was coming off a 12' hotrock. He is smaller for his age and the bike fits perfect, with a little room for growth.


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

Dqook said:


> Finaly got the boy his banshee. Got a short ebay stem and ebay carbon flat bars. He seems just a hair small for it but i think he will soon pick it up. Having a harder time pedaling than i thought he would but practice will make perfect.
> I have a disc 16" wheel that ill be putting toghether along with a carbon 20" fork and an hydro slx brake, as soon as he grows a little and gets comfy with the bike.


Why do so many people want to put disks up front at this age? It is asking for the kids to go over the bars...


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## Dqook (Sep 18, 2013)

Its his first time using handbrakes therefore he has no experience with anything else. He may go over the bars a couple of times but he will also have a head start in learning how to use disc brakes. Also with the reach adjustment on the slx lever you can really tone down the grip of the caliper. And its gonna look awesome.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

My 3 year old's bike has an awesome v brake on the front and he uses it very well - can do an "emergency" stop , and go down steep hills using only front brake standing on his pedals


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## BullSCit (Mar 26, 2004)

Regarding disc brakes, to each their own. I didn't put a disc brake on our Banshee, but would have if it didn't mean needing a new fork and building a new wheel for it. But that was the first upgrade on my daughter's 20" wheeled bike. Where we ride most of the time, it is 300 foot climbs then 300 foot downhills, repeat 3 or 4 times depending on the ride. But some rides are 3,000 foot climbs, and then 3,000 foot downhills. Our kids just don't have the hand strength endurance to do 3,000 foot downhills without some added help. And that added help was in form of a disc brake. If it wasn't for those downhills, I probably wouldn't have put it on her bike, but her having a smile all the way down and not complaining about her arm cramping up all the way down is worth it.

And like said above, she loves anything that makes her bike more like mom and dads.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

I've just reread my post and realised it isn't clear. I think disc brakes on the fron won't mean that the child goes over the bars - kids are more capable than you think.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

It took forever to find parts, but our Banshee has now been upgraded with the 5-Speed Sturmey Archer SRF-5(W) 5-speed IGH. Initial ride reports are promising. The only major issue is that 1 is having trouble downshifting to lower gears; shifting up to higher gears is no problem. I may have to look for the trigger shifter at some point. I hate sinking even more money into this, but if she can't manage to shift in both directions, that will be indicated, I think.

The only LBS that could find a 305mm 28-hole rim had only one rim they could find... a steel chromed one. Too bay they couldn't find a nice black Aluminum rim, but everything worked out. I was going to build the wheel myself, but they had to send it out to Sapim to get spokes cut to the right length, and at that point, having Sapim build the wheel was minor.








One hiccup when I went to install the wheel... apparently the chain that comes on the banshee is NOT a single-speed chain. The sprocket on the Sturmey-Archer hub is too wide to fit into the chain!








A quick trip to REI (closer than the 45 minute away LBS) gets a new SRAM single speed chain.








Fits much better now!








Grip-shifter fits on the 22mm bars that come with the Banshee just fine.








I had to buy a sturmey archer frame cable stop for the rear to transition from housing to bare cable for the hub. Fits just fine; this is the 19.1mm "Chainstay Fulcrum Clip"








I'll try to get some riding photos tomorrow... the install went really well, and when we went out to test it, we forgot to bring the camera along. All in all, I'd call this a really easy install/setup... but a #$% to get parts. On the plus side, there's no derailer hanging down ready to hit the ground.


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## trap121 (Mar 7, 2011)

What tires have you guys found to work well for trail riding?


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

trap121 said:


> What tires have you guys found to work well for trail riding?


We've been having great success with the Kenda K50 2.125. It's nice and fat to soak up the bumps, esp at low pressure. Easily available and inexpensive. See it in action in Vancouver's North Shore trails here:

"Follow Me!" - BP's Summer Riding 2014:


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## honeydew (Jan 16, 2011)

My little girl (4 yo) got a banshee for christmas, she loves it and rides it to daycare every morning, neighborhood trails after school, and MTB trails on weekends. It has had the 2.4" tires on it since day one, the black jacks went on her backup bike.

The gearing has been a minor issue on the trails so thanks to this thread I gathered the parts to convert to 2-speed and had the local shop, Beyond Bikes put it together. They did an excellent job setting it up properly and even test rode it.

We tested it tonight and in low gear she rode right through every spot that gave her trouble previously. She is very pleased and is excited to hit the MTB trails this weekend! No more steel bash guard, Mom might be not so pleased when she sees her greasy pant leg.


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

Glad to hear the mods are working well for your daughter, honeydew!



honeydew said:


> No more steel bash guard, Mom might be not so pleased when she sees her greasy pant leg.


If needed, it's easy to put the stock bashring on and keep the two chainrings. You just need 3.8mm chainring spacers instead of the stock ones, and then either enlarge the holes on smaller chainring or install the bolts backwards.

This will also improve chainline so everything runs a bit smoother. More info can be found here: adding another gear


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## honeydew (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanks for the info CeUnit. Maybe I'll add it back, will decide after some more riding. That sucker is heavy though! Gotta further evaluate Momma vs. snag issues vs. clean look and weight. No rocks here to bash so that is not an issue.


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

Here we go  ... my latest build for when my son turns 4 this spring: *Spawn Banshee with 2x1 transmission and air fork*. It weighs in at 19 lbs (stock is 15 lbs).

The fork modification is non-trivial so I'll just focus on the transmission since that's something readers can replicate with widely available parts.

So for the transmission, I replicated the 2x1 setup that I did for the smaller version of this bike as described in Spawn Furi 14" Mod - Adding Another Gear. Except this time I added a front derailleur and a thumb shifter.

*Notable parts involved:*

 64BCD 22T chainring ($16 at Amazon) with holes enlarged to fit stock chainring bolts
 Stock chainring bolts
 Stock chainring and bashguard
 8 pcs of 3.8mm (10mm ID) middle chainring spacers ($18 for 20 at Wheels Mfg)
 Shimano SIS derailleur hanger adaptor ($5 at Amazon)
 Summit Godspeed SS Tensioner ($26 at Amazon)
 Any multi-speed chain ($10 at Amazon)
 Shimano XT FD-M785 Front Derailleur - Double ($40 at Amazon; not ideal since chainline doesn't match so I have the limit screws set to the extremes; bike's chainline = 43mm, derailleur's = 48.8mm; but still works)
 Origin8 28.6 Alloy Cable Stop ($8 at Amazon)
 Shimano TZ20 Left Friction Shifter ($5)


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## oren_hershco (Mar 11, 2006)

Question for Banshee users: isn't the stock bar too high for a 4-4.5 YO kid? It looks more BMX-oriented than trail-oriented.

My boy now rides a low rise bar on his Hotrock 12 (the stock Hotrock bar), and it works great on the uphills.

Is the an alternative? (a low rise, light alloy bar that fits the 22.2 mm-clamp of the original stem)


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## fireswamp (Nov 4, 2013)

The lowest rise bar I found that fits the stock stem is:

Alloy 2-Inch Micro Black Handlebars | FLY Racing | Professional grade Motocross, BMX, MTB, Offroad, ATV, Snowmobile, and Watercraft apparel and hard parts​
I bought mine for $30 at Danscomp.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

This is what we used, cut them down a tad, worked great:

https://www.jrbicycles.com/storefront/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=864


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## scarbelly (Oct 30, 2007)

It sounds like your Spawn was shipped from Canada to US. Do you recall how it was shipped and whether there were any brokerage fees to pay to UPS or FedEx? From what I can tell, there shouldn't be any duty on a complete kids bike. I'm fine paying the $30 shipping fee, but not excited about any surprise customs brokerage fees on arrival. I'm hoping it's just shipped via Canada Post and USPS.

Thanks


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## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

Mine shipped via Canadian percolator (the cheapest option) and connected to UPS. It took less than a day for it to get from shipment through US customs, so a good estimate for you would be however long it takes UPS to get from Seattle to you plus one day. I didn't have any extra customs fees or duties.


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## scarbelly (Oct 30, 2007)

Cool. I'm also in Seattle. Kind of a tough choice whether to just make the 6 hour drive to Vancouver to get one. From earlier posts it sounds like some people got hit with the UPS brokerage fee, but mostly not. Appreciate the feedback.


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## work765 (May 7, 2015)

My sons new Banshee arrived today!! the bike looks awesome. Its the US version and I definitely need to cut the Seat post down before any riding. 

My question to you Banshee owners is.. The fly/coaster wheel seems kind of stiff... When I just spin the peddle backwards not engaging any tire rotation. its seems a bit hard to move and bumpy almost. Not like any of my previous road bikes that were butter smooth. Is the bumpyness for children? more resistance for some reason?


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

Same thing happened with ours. The chain is too tight for the not-particularly-round chainring. Loosen the wheel and spin the cranks backwards until the chain is just tightening up at the tightest point (the wheel should be pulled forward a bit during this process. The chain will seem loose in other spots, but it *should* be tight enough to just pop off. Maybe. Probably. (In other words, verify that it doesn't pop off easily). Make sure the wheel is straight and then double check the chain tension and then tighten everything up. Then make sure the brakes are still reasonably centered on the rim. Probably the rim didn't move enough to affect the brakes, but you should still check.


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## bjr72 (Jun 4, 2015)

work765 said:


> My sons new Banshee arrived today!! the bike looks awesome. Its the US version and I definitely need to cut the Seat post down before any riding.
> 
> My question to you Banshee owners is.. The fly/coaster wheel seems kind of stiff... When I just spin the peddle backwards not engaging any tire rotation.


Coaster hubs are hit and miss in quality control... some are OK.....some are not.... Most I have tried are fairly stiff and offer way too much resistance.... in Europe kids don't do coaster brakes - they use hand brakes right away. They seem to be getting along just fine on their bikes.


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## bjr72 (Jun 4, 2015)

I am curious how many here had issues with the wheels being wobbly. Our Banshee came out of the box with both wheels so wobbly that I cannot properly adjust the brakes - they either rub rub rub on every rotation, or they are too loose. Really annoying. No resolution thus far as Spawn family has been away and are behind on emails.

There were other issues but none that I could not fix myself. The wheels and brakes, however are a major component.

The frame, thankfully is good - nice and straight with nice welds. Front fork weld ever so slightly off, but nothing I'm going to cry about. Wheel still seems reasonably in the center of the forks as long as I don't overtighten. 

Anyone know the proper nipple size on the spokes? I measured and got about 3.15mm .... maybe I'm clamping on too tight with the micrometer? Will a 3.23mm Park Tool work? I need to get these wheels trued so that I can stop running alongside my daughter and slowing her down. My knees are not what they used to be. Brakes are disabled at the moment only because she is just learning (turned 3), and removing the extra variable actually helped her learn to ride the bike.

Someone asked about spoke nipple size early on in the thread, but I didn't see it answered? Anyone?
thanks in advance.


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## bjr72 (Jun 4, 2015)

To answer my own question - spoke size is 3.23mm. So a Park Tool SW-0 should work fine. Max was able to provide me with the information I needed. Thanks to all for taking the time to post your modifications. This is something I am looking into.


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## auntiekuhnuh (Jul 18, 2015)

Hello all, I am new to this site and new to posting on forums as well. I apologize in advance if I am doing anything wrong or posting in the wrong place since I really have no idea what I am doing.

I am in desperate need of some advice, opinions and information ASAP. In retrospect, I should have posted here long ago when I decided to buy my nephew a Spawn Furi for his upcoming birthday but at that time I was absolutely certain the Furi was the right sized bike for him. Now that I have the bike in hand and it is weeks from his birthday I am second guessing my decision and wondering if I shouldn't have gotten the Banshee instead. Of course he had to have an unexpected growth spurt in the last 2 months which didn't help. 

So the background, he has been on a Strider since 12 months and is a confident and competent rider, scooting feet up with great balance especially while turning and able to ride without looking where he is going. Recent pics on his Strider make him look huge on it with the regular seat post and bars (not XL) at their max height. He has to bend his knees quite a bit now and has recently taken some spills, I think from being top heavy(?) on the bike now and possibly from the wheels being too small. He has never really crashed on his Strider before, except for last winter with the ski attachments and I think he was doing that on purpose. ;-)

He is on the small side for his age (turning 4 in August), currently 40 inches tall with only a 15 inch inseam, as I'm being told (yes I confirmed measurement was from crotch to floor). I'm told the seat on the Strider is at 16 inches and it probably should be higher judging from the amount his knees are bent in recent videos I've seen.

Can anyone with one of the newer Banshee's help me out with some measurements? I didn't realize that the newer Banshees were "shorter and stouter" until a few days ago. Stand over height at the mid point of the top tube and height from ground to the of the top of the seat slammed all the way down (cut down seat post obviously) would be the most helpful. Length from end of front tire to end of rear tire would be great so I can compare how much longer, overall, the Banshee is over the Furi.

I am also open to any opinions or suggestions that anyone might have to offer regarding the fitment. Since this is his first pedal bike, I would prefer that he be able to comfortably stand over the bike flat footed. He also has no experience with hand brakes so I want to make sure he can use his feet in the beginning to slow down if necessary. I'd also like him to be able to "touch" the ground while fully seated. 

The Spawn bikes are not cheap and I'd like him to get as much use as possible from his new bike. Since he looks way too big on the 12 inch Strider right now, I am wondering if the 14 inch Furi might be too small to begin with or quickly become too small. But I don't want to get the Banshee unless I am absolutely certain it won't be too big right now. Not to mention then I have to figure out what to do with the Furi I already bought.

Also if anybody happens to have a Furi and a NEW Banshee and could post side by side pics that would be amazingly helpful! Also side by side pics of a 12 inch Strider and either the Furi or Banshee would also be great!

Thank you all so much for your help and sorry about my long first post!

PS: My Furi also seems to have shipped with slightly out of round wheels and definitely an out of round front sprocket which caused the chain to pinch as other people have reported on this forum. It initially seemed like there was a problem with the freewheel hub not being smooth but loosening the chain made a big difference. Trying to adjust the rear wheel to loosen the chain required some brute force as the rear axle bolts were REALLY clamped down tight. It also appears possible that the bottom bracket spindle might be slightly bent. Not deal breakers and I doubt my 4 year old nephew will notice those things but definitely a little disappointing when you pay so much for a new bike.


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

auntiekuhnuh said:


> He is on the small side for his age (turning 4 in August), currently 40 inches tall with only a 15 inch inseam, as I'm being told (yes I confirmed measurement was from crotch to floor)


Definitely a Banshee. My son is exactly 40" tall and already has the seat about 1.5" up. We have a Furi as well that he rode for 1 year and now looks a bit small on.

Good luck!


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## auntiekuhnuh (Jul 18, 2015)

Sigh, that's what I was afraid of. I was going by Spawn's sizing chart that says minimum 16.5 inch inseam for the Banshee and 15 inch for the Furi but I wonder if that is for the old Banshee, not the new "shorter and stouter" one. CDK posted earlier in this thread that the Banshee fit his 38.5 inch tall/15.5 inch inseam daughter just fine and the pics seem to indicate that as well. I'm thinking I better just suck it up and buy the Banshee and try and sell the Furi.

Any chance you could post a pic of both bikes side by side? And the stand over height on the Banshee?

Thanks!


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

auntiekuhnuh said:


> Sigh, that's what I was afraid of. I was going by Spawn's sizing chart that says minimum 16.5 inch inseam for the Banshee and 15 inch for the Furi but I wonder if that is for the old Banshee, not the new "shorter and stouter" one. CDK posted earlier in this thread that the Banshee fit his 38.5 inch tall/15.5 inch inseam daughter just fine and the pics seem to indicate that as well. I'm thinking I better just suck it up and buy the Banshee and try and sell the Furi.
> 
> Any chance you could post a pic of both bikes side by side? And the stand over height on the Banshee?
> 
> Thanks!


Forgot to mention his inseam is 15.5". His other friends who are a tad shorter (maybe by an inch?) also ride Banshees. Note all the Banshees i speak of are the newer version.

Really the difference between the bikes is the full cockpit size as it's not really the height that should be of concern. My 4yo is starting to get pretty crammed in the Furi (he rode it again today for a few moments).

I've lent the Furi to a friend now until my younger son needs it so I can't post side by side pics. I can't reliably measure standover height cuz I've upgraded the Banshee's fork so the bike sits higher than stock.


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## bjr72 (Jun 4, 2015)

Yeah, I hear ya regarding the wheels.... my Banshee wheels are still out of round... so much that I cannot adjust the brakes so I just disengaged them for now.... I've been so busy I haven't had time to true the wheels yet... I just run along side my daughter.

So to be quite frank about it, and don't take offense, the Furi is a waste of money because, as you said, kids encounter huge growth spurts. My daughter is 40.5" tall and her inseem is about 15.5". The Banshee is just fine for her. People put too much emphasis on "straddling"... being able to straddle upright is not going to stop your 3 or 4 year old from falling at all. I mean, you are already at a dead stop, so who cares if the bike leans to one side - they are not going to get hurt at a dead stop. While straddling my 3 year old can't start peddling from that position anyway - its very difficult - she can't start from that position because her body is too far forward and she can't see the pedals really well.

Anyway.... I was worried too in the beginning, but I'm glad I went straight from a 12" push bike to a 16" Banshee with her. The seat on the Banshee goes SO LOW that at it's lowest position my daughter's legs are so bent (40.5" tall) that she doesn't have enough power to pedal and it makes it awkward for her... I can see it's not enjoyable.... so from the Banshee's lowest position I raised the seat about 1" or 2" and that straightened up her legs a bit.... still bent too much for my liking, but she can still lean to one side and get her foot down easily. Not a problem. I also replaced the stock seat with a much more comfortable seat I bought off of Amazon.... Velo Junior seat, I believe.... much better fit.

Longer bikes are more stable.... so that's a good thing.

And what you said about your son putting his feet down to stop on the Furi - that's dangerous and if it were ME, I would not let him get used to that idea. My daughter did that a couple times and got her heels caught under the pedals while the bike was moving and it hurt.... silly idea and not recommended...she quickly learned not to do that.....if he does that while going fast, I can only pray for him and close my eyes.

Next week I'm going to activate just the back brake.... kids at 3 and 4 years should not be using both brakes just yet.... back brake adjusted just enough to slow them down and not let them come to a screeching halt is the safest way.... once they master the back brake, you introduce the front brake.... Always one variable at a time....


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## auntiekuhnuh (Jul 18, 2015)

Thanks for your frank comments and thoughts, no offense taken at all, in fact I really appreciate them.

I had never thought about the fact that it might be dangerous for my nephew to drag his feet to try and stop, yikes! That was an eye opener. And I totally agree with very soft back brake only first and work in front brake later.

As far as being able to straddle the bike, it was more of a concern for me that he feels confident and in control of the bike, not too high up. And I agree that with the seat down low enough for them to touch the ground that it is not at all an ideal pedaling position/height but they have to start somewhere. Since it will be his first pedal bike I want it to be a positive and non-threatening experience. Once he is more experienced I know he will have no trouble riding bikes that are technically too big for him as long as his feet can reach the pedals.

As far as the out of round wheels and other issues, the rear wheel was not too bad, but the front one is definitely pretty out of whack. Not just side to side wobble but it appears that maybe the hub is not quite centered which gives a cam type effect as the wheel spins. 

I'm pretty sure the front wheel can be trued and fixed but the thing with the out of round front sprocket really bothers me. If it were my bike there is no way I would find that acceptable because I would feel it every time I pedaled. Does the fact that my 4 year old nephew will probably never notice it make a difference? It does make a difference to me. I notice. 

Overall, right now I am pretty disappointed. I was so excited about this bike for my nephew and I was the one who talked my mom into chipping in on it with me for his upcoming birthday. I haven’t even told my mom yet because I am afraid of her disappointment and what she will say. 

My boyfriend thought I was crazy to spend this kind of money on a bike and he is less than impressed. He thinks I should just send the Furi back and buy something else. He thinks it is absolutely insane that I am actually thinking about buying the Banshee now, especially given the fact that the new bike will probably have the same issues I am seeing on the Furi.

I may just decide to cut my losses, keep the Furi to get him started even though it might be on the small side, and then sell it as soon as I think he is ready and buy a different 16 inch bike. I'm so conflicted and disappointed right now, although I otherwise love the bike I'm starting to agree with my boyfriend.


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## bjr72 (Jun 4, 2015)

You are not crazy or insane. If everyone in the world cared about things with as much attention to detail as you (and me), the world would be a better place. 

You wanted the best. I wanted the best and lightest bike for my daughter. Grandma chipped in too because we couldn't afford it. The mass of the bikes for 4 year olds is the problem - force = mass x acceleration. Greater the mass, bigger the impact when you hit something, and harder it is to stop.

You wanted the best and you got warped wheels and out of round gears. Out of round gears is not so bad, but the out of round wheels will make it difficult to fine adjust the brakes properly.

I feel your pain. I was in the same situation. I can't afford to start taking this bike to a bike shop, so I am forced to fix it myself. 

Have you spoken to Spawn and asked them nicely if they would be willing to do an exchange or trade-in? Maybe they can re-sell your bike at one of the bike shops in town. It doesn't hurt to ask. Given the issues with this one, I'd try and exchange it for a Banshee.

The first bike that was delivered to me was a Woom 16" from the USA. That was a disaster, as the handlebar stem was messed up and the frame was bent (off). Fantastic bike, otherwise. All suppliers have manufacturing issues now and again. It's a given. I took a chance on a Spawn, and the only thing wrong was the wheels. So you suck it up and realize that perhaps Taiwan manufacturing can only be so good at the $500 price point.


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## auntiekuhnuh (Jul 18, 2015)

@ bjr72

Any chance you could measure the stand over height on your daughter's Banshee for me?

Thanks!


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## auntiekuhnuh (Jul 18, 2015)

Thank you bjr72. It helps that you can relate to what I am feeling.

You're absolutely right, I did want the best and that is why I paid so much. My two biggest factors were weight and size since my nephew is on the small size for his age. That is also why I also bought the more expensive Strider for him instead of a cheaper balance bike. And no coaster brake was the only other limiting factor.

I did email Spawn twice, immediately after I received the bike and it dawned on me that it might be too small and then once again a few days later as I started noticing the problems with it since I needed to partially assemble it to really assess if it was indeed too small. Unfortunately I have not received a response at all yet and I am running out of time so I am starting to get anxious.

Thanks for the heads up on the Woom, it was definitely a contender. I really do believe the Spawn is the best bike, I did a ton of research and it was not a decision taken lightly. I also could not afford it on my own and that is why I talked my mom (Grandma) into chipping in. 

It is unfortunate about the manufacturing defects. My boyfriend seemed to think that at that scale even miniscule defects would translate into noticeable problems. 

Thanks for understanding. I am definitely a very particular, attention to detail kind of person!


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## auntiekuhnuh (Jul 18, 2015)

bjr72, any chance you could post the stand over height on your daughter's Banshee? I tried to post the question earlier but something happened and it never showed up. Thanks!


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## bjr72 (Jun 4, 2015)

You got me at a good time.... planning on an ebay purchase so I am monitoring the computer every now and again.
The stand over height is between 15 1/2 and 16" roughly from what I could measure, depending of course, how far forward the child decides to straddle. I wouldn't worry too much about flat feet on the ground... he has to get used to tip toes. 

Try calling Spawn... they are a family operation, so I don't know how much they can do for you, but I would certainly try. Nothing to lose. Their toll free number should be on their US or Canadian website. 

I don't know how much time you get to spend with your nephew, but it took me everyday, 1/2 to 1 hour each day, for 2 weeks to get my daughter to transition from 12" balance bike (I removed the pedals, cranks, and hub assembly) to 12" bicycle (I reassembled everything back together). I just used a cheap 15 year old 12" bike and converted it to a push (balance) bike... Any bicycle can be made into a balance bike, as long as the seat goes low enough and the child's feet touch flat on the ground in order to "push"..... thereafter, 2 or 3 more weeks of riding the 12" without training wheels and I knew she could ride something bigger. 

The 16" Woom was a beautiful bike... if only they could work out the manufacturing problems, it's a better, more relaxed ride.... it's made more for cruising with longer wheelbase, and a novel curved design for the toptube to allow easier and safer straddling. The wheels on the Woom were spot on... no wobble at all...the kickstand and seat were luxurious.. too bad the frame was not great. Your boyfriend is right.... the smaller you go, it's much harder to weld things in a straight line, especially by eye alone. You need really good and consistent jigs during the welding process.


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## auntiekuhnuh (Jul 18, 2015)

bjr72, once again your input has been extremely helpful to me.

I will be seeing my nephew for a full 2 weeks for his birthday while I am on vacation and then throughout the year I see him sporadically for a weekend here and there about once every 2-3 months. Based on your experience with your daughter I think I will keep the Furi for now since this is his very first pedal bike experience.

I will work extensively with him during the 2 weeks I am there but once I am gone, although my sister will encourage him to ride, she will not be able to be as hands on as me as she also has a young baby to manage. 

For that reason, I think the Furi will be a better starter bike because he will most certainly be able to manage it completely on his own. He will be able to throw his leg over it without help, he will be able to stand over it, and most importantly he should be able to get up on the saddle and hopefully scoot himself into motion with his feet if he has trouble getting the bike moving with the pedals at first. I could start with the saddle on the low side and gradually raise it up to a better riding position once he figures the bike out.

With the Banshee, he probably will not be able to get his leg over the top tube right now without someone else helping/holding the bike, he will be very tippy toed just to stand over it, and he probably will not be able to get into the saddle and/or get it moving without assistance. And the saddle would have to be all the way down which is not an ideal pedaling height. 

Once I am gone, it is unlikely he will get much, if any, riding in on the Banshee if he needs that much assistance. At least with the Furi, he will be able to muscle it around by himself and hopefully ride it independently after a two week crash course with me.

By the way, Elena from Spawn did finally respond to my emails and she seemed to think that the Banshee would be too big for my nephew right now. They were open to discussing a return but they were reluctant to do so without me at least having my nephew try on the Furi for size, which I can understand. She also addressed my concerns about the issues with the wheels and the front sprocket and gave some helpful suggestions. She indicated that their "tolerances" for their sprockets and machine trued wheels were quite high by industry standards and for their price point. 

Thanks again for your very helpful input and comments. I think I am finally at peace with my decision.


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## Trumpits (Apr 12, 2009)

I have had my sons Banshee for about a year now & had the constant problem with the stock grips slowly sliding off the bars. Each time before we would ride I would twist them back into place, while cursing the entire time because the brake levers make it a pain for my big paws to do it.

Well....my wife took him out the other day & by the time they got back the grips were half off the bars. It finally popped into my head to measure the diameter, I assumed it was smaller than a real bar. Sure enough its the same as all my other bars, so I took a old pair of lock on grips and cut them down to length with a hack saw. It only has one lock ring on the end of the bar & a set of used end plugs but works great.

I was irritated with myself for taking so long to figure this out, its a great "mod" to these little bikes that can stop some discomfort for your child.


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

My solution was grip shift length ODI Ruffian lock-ons. Small diameter for little hands and the length is short enough to fit on the fairly short section of straight bar. I'd rather have the big rubber pads of the stock grips in the case of a crash where the bar turns sideways and a potential bar-end to the spleen, but he'd always drop his bike on the ground and shred the end of his grips anyway.

Topic drift: has anyone swapped out the brake levers for something shorter? As they stand, they're 4-finger levers. I was thinking about putting on some old LX levers I have -- just about the shortest v-brake levers I know of.


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## Sweetness (May 12, 2005)

Feldybikes said:


> Topic drift: has anyone swapped out the brake levers for something shorter? As they stand, they're 4-finger levers. I was thinking about putting on some old LX levers I have -- just about the shortest v-brake levers I know of.


I agree, the brake levers that come with the banshee are too long. I removed these from my daughter's bike immediately after buying the bike and ordered some shorter 2-finger tektro brake levers, so that my daughter can use 2 finger braking and keep more of her hand on the bars. 4-finger braking takes their little hands off the bar and is just asking for a crash. It's strange that Spawn would spec these 4-finger levers on the Banshee, because some of Spawn's other bikes have these shorter 2-finger levers.


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## northernblades (Jul 22, 2011)

Just an update to an old thread.
Both my Children are on Banshees right now, my eldest has gotten a FULL three seasons out of the bike. She is STILL too small to ride a 20 inch bike (opus thumper or Kona Makena)

I do not know if she will fit it until spring, but I just bought her a Savage.
She rode the bike from 4 years old until 7 years old.

Her little sister was on it at 3 years old. I hope it will last her until 6 years old.

They are not hardcore kids, but they used the bikes, and loved them.

Upgrades to the bikes.

-one set of Schwalbe mad mike tires
-One set of Kenda k50
-One AcS Crossfire 15T freewheel (the used bike had the freewheel destroyed) and 15T freewheel was better anyway. I know it was better to replace the chaining, but the chain ring did not need replacing.

This video was from this year, my eldest is nearly too big for the bike.


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## northernblades (Jul 22, 2011)

One more video from a proud dad,


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

northernblades said:


> Just an update to an old thread.
> ... my eldest has gotten a FULL three seasons out of the bike. She is STILL too small to ride a 20 inch bike (opus thumper or Kona Makena). I do not know if she will fit it until spring, but I just bought her a Savage.


Thanks for sharing the videos... Fun! Riding with your own kids amongst nature is truly a rewarding feeling.

Your eldest might find the Savage to be a good fit - she looks tall enough from what I can see. My 5 yr old son is 42.5" tall (18" inseam) and rides a Savage 2.0 with the seat up about 1". He was riding it back when he was 40.5" tall but at that time needed a stool to get on and had to drop the bike in order to get off  Perhaps that might help you gauge what is potentially possible.

He still rides his Banshee too once in a while, with the seat up to the max. We rushed to move up to the Savage since the 10 speed is invaluable for riding XC trails.

A fun video on the Banshee, along with little bro on the Hotwalk...


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

Sizing questions seem to pop up a lot so here's some pics that might help people. I have collected 3 Spawn bikes in roughly 3 years - hoping the Savage lasts longer than 1 year! Your kids' mileage may vary significantly.


Furi (3.3 - 4.0 yrs old)
Banshee (4.0 yrs old - 5.3 yrs old)
Savage 2.0 (5.0 yrs old - present)

The Banshee isn't really indicative of a stock setup since the Spinner Grind Air fork mod raises the head tube by several inches so the bike stands really slack. With a flat bar instead of the BMX style raised bar, the final height of the grips off the ground is about 3/4" higher than stock. But the cockpit sizing is very close to stock.


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## northernblades (Jul 22, 2011)

As size is being discussed here. IMHO the FURY is too small to be justifiable.
By the time a child has "outgrown" their balance bike, they either already fit, or will soon fit a Banshee.

If you want to put them on a fury for 3 months, while they get accustomed to a pedal bike on a smaller frame that is a choice. However it is not difficult to get a Child at as young as 3 years. I personally found the Fury to be too small to be worth the purchase. 

At this size they still love to play with the balance bike, and still love their balance bike. The Banshee is not too big. They just have some learning and adjusting to do.

(edit)
I picked up the 2.0 savage today. ran me $750
First off OMFG is it tiny. When compared to the other 20 inch bikes
kona Makenna, Opus thumper. the Savage is a TINY bike, like ITTY BITTY.

I was going to hold off and give it to her for Christmas. but that will be 3 months that she could have been riding it. I am sure it is by far and away the SMALLEST 20 inch bike on the market. 

the design is beautiful. 

I also found frog bikes recently. Pretty nice looking bikes, but they are the same price as the spawn bikes. If you are going to pay for a spawn, get a spawn.


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## Shepski (May 24, 2006)

My son started last spring on the Spawn Tengu run bike at 3 years old and I immediately put on off road rubber so he could ride singletrack with me. He is small and this spring I got him a Furi and it has been the perfect transition bike for him. Of course now the seat height is maxed but he shreds singletrack and only has to walk his bike up the steeper climbs. The smaller bike being lighter and more agile has really helped him with his bike handling skills so the Furi is a worthwhile bike for some kids.

I know he could easily ride the Banshee now because he can ride his brother's old Norco 16"er but will wait till next spring to see how he sizes up for his next Spawn.


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## Damask (Apr 7, 2017)

It's an older thread but helped me a lot a couple of years ago - we ended up with Banshee too - and now that I officially joined mtbr I want to say THANK YOU TO YOU ALL for sharing all your photos, advice, and experiences!!! My son loved his bike!


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## Shepski (May 24, 2006)

CeUnit... Sorry this took so long but my son's been running the 2x1 all summer and loving it... thanks for the great write up and help!


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

Shepski said:


> CeUnit... Sorry this took so long but my son's been running the 2x1 all summer and loving it... thanks for the great write up and help!


That's awesome. So glad to hear it worked out. By chance I found stick on cable guides in a parts bin at a local bike shop to replace the zip ties along the top tube to make the whole setup appear stock.


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## Trumpits (Apr 12, 2009)

Kid #2 was big enough for the Banshee this spring, so I sold off the Gremlin last week for $280.

Then he starts asking for gears, so with the help of this thread I made it happen.

LBS had everything in stock for $130. I had the bars & granny ring from a old bike.

The big red stem is stolen from my Electra Moto, a regular stem with a 40mm stack height was to tall for the length the steerer tube. Probably gonna source a new one for him.

Shifter pulls towards rider to go into 22t, which is super easy for him & the thumb push to 28t is a bit tricky with only a few attempts in the cold.


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## Jprice (Jun 3, 2018)

Hello. I am considering the Yoji for my son. He is 4 1/2 years old, 18.25" inseam, and 43 1/2" tall. Do you think the Yoji is too small? How long would he get to ride it before it is too small? 

Thanks


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

Jprice said:


> Hello. I am considering the Yoji for my son. He is 4 1/2 years old, 18.25" inseam, and 43 1/2" tall. Do you think the Yoji is too small? How long would he get to ride it before it is too small?
> 
> Thanks


Though every child's comfort and ability will vary, one data point I can offer is that my son transitioned from a Banshee (16") to a Savage (20") when he was 42.5" tall. He could have likely stayed on the Banshee for the season, but moving to the Savage wasn't an issue at that height and offered significant advantages with 10speed and bigger wheels.


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## Jprice (Jun 3, 2018)

CeUnit said:


> Though every child's comfort and ability will vary, one data point I can offer is that my son transitioned from a Banshee (16") to a Savage (20") when he was 42.5" tall. He could have likely stayed on the Banshee for the season, but moving to the Savage wasn't an issue at that height and offered significant advantages with 10speed and bigger wheels.


Yeah, I kind of figured the bike was a bit small. Perhaps he could get 6 months out of it. I like the Spawn bikes but the new Yama Jama and the rest of the 20" bikes are out of my price range. Any suggestions? Thanks


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

Good news is that at 20", there are many more good options than at 16". Since this is the thread for the 16" Banshee, I'll refrain from turning this into a 20" recommendation thread, but there's lots you'll be able to find in this forum such as:


http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/20-poll-1068029.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/families-rid...y-20-bike-experienced-7-year-old-1069018.html


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## vtsteevo (Jan 19, 2010)

If anyone's kid has outgrown the banshee and you were thinking of returning it to stock to sell, I am looking for parts to turn my son's banshee into a 2-by drivetrain. Shoot me a message.

Thanks


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## Jimoz (May 24, 2020)

Anyone still following this who has modified a banshee? I picked one up and have added the extra front ring with intention to add a derailleur. I installed the rings, dropout and chain tensioner, then put on the multi speed chain (3/32) which fit the rings but doesn't fit the freewheel... It appears my freewheel is 1/8. Furthermore, the freewheel has no tabs to be able to remove it. Now i can put the original chain back on and change gears with my hand when stationary, but im curious to know if anyone else had this issue, and since no one has previously mentioned it, im wondering if my freewheel has been replaced by the previous owner? It's silver, and i cant say ive seen a silver freewheel on another banshee. Looks like i need to buy a new freewheel to finish the project. More $$$

BTW i have a 12 3.8mm chainring bolt spacers if anyone wants to buy.


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