# Is this where it's headed.



## bakerjw (Oct 8, 2014)

I have no horse in this race. I just came across this and this was the only place that I could think of posting it.

LiveLeak.com - Insane woman assaults legal ebike rider for riding on public path

Such anger...


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

There is a lot of assumptions there. Did the rider ride responsibly up to that point? Did he force her off the trail? The woman was clearly wrong to block the trail to a legal vehicle, but I'm not aware of his particular vehicle on that particular trail.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Mountain bikers have been dealing with the insane women user group for decades, I don't expect it to be any different for ebikers. Life would be easier if they would only stay indoors.

Have I got stories.....


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

Oh man! That woman just needs to get out of the way. 


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## bakerjw (Oct 8, 2014)

It's the ole Unstoppable Force meeting an Unmovable Object conundrum.


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## Martin.au (Jan 1, 2006)

Wow. The dog was the only sane thing in the video.

Actually, that's a bit harsh. The guy on the bike, while failing at defusing the situation, did OK.


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## uhoh7 (May 5, 2008)

Harryman said:


> Mountain bikers have been dealing with the insane women user group for decades, I don't expect it to be any different for ebikers. Life would be easier if they would only stay indoors.
> 
> Have I got stories.....


Great post Harry 

OMG I'm still cracking up....

I think she's posting in the other threads right now......

PS I hope I will not let myself get as frustrated as that guy when it happens to me. I think he would be better to just lie down and play with the dog. 

I passed a guy on a climb yesterday. It was a switchback and he did not give me much room so I had to stop a sec...only then did my normal cloaking device stop working. "Ah an e-bike.....I see" Tone was a bit sardonic, so I just said thank you and continued trying to think of something I should of said:

"Do you think it attracts lightning?" That's what occurred to me 300 yards away, as we had some thunderheads over us. 35 minutes later, much higher, I came across a dad and his son, who had a broken rib he thought. They had seen nobody. I was able to get help coming for them.

Ah the thankless life on a e-bike....well actually they were VERY thankful


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

uhoh7 said:


> I passed a guy on a climb yesterday........


Great story^ fantastic ending!


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

What that guy is riding, while it meets the criteria of "operable pedals, 750w max and 20 mph" as per the 2014 PA law he is quoting, is more scooter than bike. The 150mm cranks and yuge Q factor may operate but most don't use them as they just put their feet up on that platform and hit the button. The cra cra lady probably was just reacting to the fact that someone was zipping along on her path on what she perceived to be a mo ped which are illegal. 

As time goes on more events like this will happen, I am just waiting for the first incident where an e biker gets knocked around by an irate mtb"r, many of whom have professed violence on the internet. But after awhile it will mellow out. So it goes.


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## dstepper (Feb 28, 2004)

That was fun.


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

I think we all have dealt with something like this and hopefully we act a little better than either of them . He was on a elec scooter not a bike she was wrong I would have backed up and gotten off and petted the dog . He could have done a much better job


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## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

Harryman said:


> Mountain bikers have been dealing with the insane women user group for decades, I don't expect it to be any different for ebikers. Life would be easier if they would only stay indoors.
> 
> Have I got stories.....


Life would probably be easier for you if you weren't going around characterizing all women as insane. Perhaps you should consider staying indoors.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Deep Thought said:


> Life would probably be easier for you if you weren't going around characterizing all women as insane. Perhaps you should consider staying indoors.


Reread my post. I didn't say that all women are insane, just that there is a subset that are. They often appear at public meetings regarding trails and send prolific messages to land managers telling tales of imaginary incidents of mtb violence. Check out the Marin threads if you want a taste of it. We have our share of them as well here.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

^^^^ Just part of the user group, I got stories too.


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

Hands Harry a shovel


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Reminds me of this:

http://forums.mtbr.com/california-s...er-you-know-what-im-talking-about-830208.html

Pretty long read, but there is a video in there somewhere of part of the incident. Some people... sheesh.

Also that man was not riding an "e-bike" as it had no pedals, that was a scooter by all accounts. That said, it is quite possible it is low enough on power to qualify for riding on that paved path.

The worst part about these kinds of videos is we never get to see what caused the incident in the first place. They need dash cams on those things! haha.


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## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

Harryman said:


> Reread my post. I didn't say that all women are insane, just that there is a subset that are. They often appear at public meetings regarding trails and send prolific messages to land managers telling tales of imaginary incidents of mtb violence. Check out the Marin threads if you want a taste of it. We have our share of them as well here.


You're not sounding any better. How about, there's a subset of _people_ that are insane. It's not a phenomenon specific to women, which is what your post implied with "insane women" user group.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

Grabbing pop corn, this is going to be interesting 


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Klurejr said:


> Also that man was not riding an "e-bike" as it had no pedals, that was a scooter by all accounts. That said, it is quite possible it is low enough on power to qualify for riding on that paved path.


If you look at the video again there are clearly cranks and pedals. Which as long as they are "operational" meet the letter of the law.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

and just when I thought this forum couldn't possibly hold any more persecuted victims of misunderstanding....


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Deep Thought said:


> You're not sounding any better. How about, there's a subset of _people_ that are insane. It's not a phenomenon specific to women, which is what your post implied with "insane women" user group.


lol

You read a lot into my post....


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## SeabeeTom (Aug 31, 2012)

I'm from the bay area (CA) and I remember many years ago I was riding some local trials in the Oakland hills. A hiker was coming up the trail and I was going down. I'm never rude and always polite and yield to hikers. I slowed down, this guy grabbed my bike and put his hands on me trying to knock me over. Tried to take my bike, I told him to remove his hands or I will hurt you. He then said he was going to stab me. I pushed him off the side of the hill and took off.. Freaking nut job!! people are crazy!!


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## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

Harryman said:


> lol
> 
> You read a lot into my post....


Not really. Just found it rather annoying.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Bigwheel said:


> If you look at the video again there are clearly cranks and pedals. Which as long as they are "operational" meet the letter of the law.


I saw those hanging off the side but did not think they were pedals... What kind of bike/scooter is that? It obviously had a large flat deck like a scooter does.... Very odd looking.

A google image search for "electric bike scooter style" got me this.










I bet that is what it was.

Certainly does not look like a bicycle, so I can see why the lady was offended, not that her continuing to yell and him and get in his way was justified at all.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Some may remember when Subaru first imported the Brat model years ago. They bolted a set of seats behind the cab in the open bed to skirt import duty on pickup models applicable at the time. These type of "bikes" are doing basically the same thing, skirting the law while staying within its boundaries. If they didn't have the pedals they would be classed as Mo Peds and come under DOT regs instead of the CPSC that regulates e bikes. They have been on sale here in the US for years, totally worthless IMNSHO as they are heavy, gutless, pieces of planned obsolescence and trying to pedal one is a joke. But they are cheap to buy and that is their main attraction.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Bigwheel said:


> If they didn't have the pedals they would be classed as Mo Peds and come under DOT regs instead of the CPSC that regulates e bikes.


I thought if the "bike" had pedals it's a mo-ped and if it doesn't it would be a scooter. Just wondering where the line lies after reading that sentence.

My mother had a Gerelli? mo-ped back in the '80's, I even remember going to DQ for treats on it. It was always in the road and there was never a thought to go on the sidewalk or a multipurpose trail. I don't have an issue with electronic assist for uphills, bike hauling/moving, or to return the ability of a rider to ride/enjoy a trail. However, it seems like the discussion is going back and forth between 2 very different and very opposing camps who would just as soon have a war over whether or not ebikes have a place on certain trails, mostly those in question being off road and quite possibly in an area that already is designated as a non-motorized vehicle zone with possible exception for emergency vehicle or rangers. In my mind it comes down to speed. I do not appreciate the idea that some riders may utilize the technology to go faster than they were once able to achieve. However, I like the idea that technology can be used to facilitate access and I don't see why it can't be used as long as those people riding them do so in a respectful way. Therein lies the rub, the bad apple will ruin it for the rest, but that isn't an excuse to ban everyone on an ebike and an ebike from every trail. That said, there certainly must exist trail systems that an ebike would give little to no advantage to the rider and further that the trail system can bar ebikes for their own reasons. Further, whether electric or gas powered, an engine is still moto in my mind so the argument to allow ebikes in areas where no motorized vehicles are allowed should include ebikes as well.

So, ebikes for me... not till I'm 90. I like to know what I am capable of rather than finding out what a motor enables me to do. However, I recognize how it could facilitate getting people out and pretend to be active and that's ok too. I'll sit in the middle, firm in my human powered preference, and watch as some of you sling crap back and forth without any rational attempt to come to an understanding. We all want to have some fun and some of us do it differently than others. As far as that woman is concerned, lighten the frack up citizen. While the ebiker may not actually be allowed to be on that trail, really idk, you just made your argument comedic by going all batshiat wonky in that dude's face. You just became a meme... still think that confrontation was worth it?


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

dbhammercycle said:


> I thought if the "bike" had pedals it's a mo-ped and if it doesn't it would be a scooter. Just wondering where the line lies after reading that sentence.
> 
> My mother had a Gerelli? mo-ped back in the '80's, I even remember going to DQ for treats on it. It was always in the road and there was never a thought to go on the sidewalk or a multipurpose trail. I don't have an issue with electronic assist for uphills, bike hauling/moving, or to return the ability of a rider to ride/enjoy a trail. However, it seems like the discussion is going back and forth between 2 very different and very opposing camps who would just as soon have a war over whether or not ebikes have a place on certain trails, mostly those in question being off road and quite possibly in an area that already is designated as a non-motorized vehicle zone with possible exception for emergency vehicle or rangers. In my mind it comes down to speed. I do not appreciate the idea that some riders may utilize the technology to go faster than they were once able to achieve. However, I like the idea that technology can be used to facilitate access and I don't see why it can't be used as long as those people riding them do so in a respectful way. Therein lies the rub, the bad apple will ruin it for the rest, but that isn't an excuse to ban everyone on an ebike and an ebike from every trail. That said, there certainly must exist trail systems that an ebike would give little to no advantage to the rider and further that the trail system can bar ebikes for their own reasons. Further, whether electric or gas powered, an engine is still moto in my mind so the argument to allow ebikes in areas where no motorized vehicles are allowed should include ebikes as well.
> 
> So, ebikes for me... not till I'm 90. I like to know what I am capable of rather than finding out what a motor enables me to do. However, I recognize how it could facilitate getting people out and pretend to be active and that's ok too. I'll sit in the middle, firm in my human powered preference, and watch as some of you sling crap back and forth without any rational attempt to come to an understanding. We all want to have some fun and some of us do it differently than others. As far as that woman is concerned, lighten the frack up citizen. While the ebiker may not actually be allowed to be on that trail, really idk, you just made your argument comedic by going all batshiat wonky in that dude's face. You just became a meme... still think that confrontation was worth it?


Great post, wrong thread.

http://forums.mtbr.com/e-bikes/access-e-mtbs-1019205.html

http://forums.mtbr.com/e-bikes/whats-your-opinion-power-speed-limits-access-1019574.html

http://forums.mtbr.com/trail-buildi...h-motorized-bikes-trail-advocacy-1019750.html


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

True, but I don't frequent this forum as much as others and you closed the real mud slingin' thread. I'll copy'n'paste if I get the gumption to visit the other threads you listed. Thanks.


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

Two people using a muilt use trail case in point how don't to act by both sides mostly the women's


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

d365 said:


> and just when I thought this forum couldn't possibly hold any more persecuted victims of misunderstanding....


You must spread rep....


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## dstepper (Feb 28, 2004)

To stop and detain someone without performing a citizens arrest is chargeable. Placing your hands on someone is assault. There was a lot of stuff going on in this video. Why people can not just live and let live is beyond me. Step to the side there was room for both of them. They both should have been cited and fined. Police should be able to cite people for being stupid. 

Dean


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Dhammercycle, "I thought if the "bike" had pedals it's a mo-ped and if it doesn't it would be a scooter. Just wondering where the line lies after reading that sentence."

The language varies a bit from the Federal law state to state and thusly how people refer to the motor assist options. There are motor-assisted scooters (like the one in the video), Mo-Peds and electric assist bicycles. For instance here are the distinctions in the state I live in:


"Applicable Definitions
Motor-assisted Scooter
According to ORS 801.348, a motor-assisted scooter:
Is designed to be operated on the ground with not more than three wheels;
Has handlebars and a foot support or seat;
Can be propelled by human or motor;
Has a motor capable of propelling it no faster than 24 miles per hour on a level road; and
Has a motor no bigger than 35 cubic centimeters or, if electric, has a power output of no more than 1,000 watts.
Moped 
According to ORS 801.345, a moped:
Is designed to be operated on the ground upon wheels;
Has a seat or saddle for use of the rider;
Is designed to travel with not more than three wheels in contact with the ground;
Is equipped with an independent power source that is capable of propelling the vehicle, unassisted, at a speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on a level road surface; and if the power source is a combustion engine, has a piston or rotor displacement of 35.01 to 50 cubic centimeters regardless of the number of chambers in the power source; and
Is equipped with a power drive system that functions directly or automatically only and does not require clutching or shifting by the operator after the system is engaged.
Note: A bicycle equipped with a power source may be classed as a moped if it meets all the moped requirements and also does not meet either the definition of an electric assisted bicycle as defined in ORS 801.258, or a motor assisted scooter as defined in ORS 801.348. 

Electric Assisted Bicycle 
According to ORS 801.258, an electric assisted bicycle:
Is designed to be operated on the ground on wheels;
Has a seat or saddle for use of the rider;
Is designed to travel with not more than three wheels in contact with the ground;
Has both fully operative pedals for human propulsion and an electric motor; and
Is equipped with an electric motor that has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts and is incapable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of greater than 20 miles per hour on level ground."

The big difference is that Mo Peds are regulated by DOT which is more hoops than the CPSC that oversees scooters and e bikes. Mo Peds here also require an instruction course before you can get your license stamped, tags and insurance which e bikes are not required to have. Making e bikes great for DUI time outs, at least here in OR., other states may vary. 

But you could easily have an e bike here that would go 24 mph and just say that it is a motor assist scooter because it fits the requirements according to this definition anyway. As has been referenced the CA law is the newest version that is being pimped by the industry and other states will either follow their lead (doubtful, it is CA after all  or just stay with what they currently have on the books. 

And down trail hounds, this statement only applies to where motorized traffic is allowed.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

SeabeeTom said:


> I'm from the bay area (CA) and I remember many years ago I was riding some local trials in the Oakland hills. A hiker was coming up the trail and I was going down. I'm never rude and always polite and yield to hikers. I slowed down, this guy grabbed my bike and put his hands on me trying to knock me over. Tried to take my bike, I told him to remove his hands or I will hurt you. He then said he was going to stab me. I pushed him off the side of the hill and took off.. Freaking nut job!! people are crazy!!


Mike V? Seriously, with your post count you may not have followed the posts about this nutcase, you may have been a victim of the man himself.


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## Bikedriver (Jun 11, 2016)

bakerjw said:


> I have no horse in this race. I just came across this and this was the only place that I could think of posting it.
> 
> LiveLeak.com - Insane woman assaults legal ebike rider for riding on public path
> 
> Such anger...


That is nothing short of hilarious. Well, better said, its funny but it's not.

At the least, it's proof that there will always be people in this world who have nothing better to do than try to control others lives and passions.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Bikedriver said:


> , it's proof that there will always be people in this world who have nothing better to do than try to control others lives and passions.


...or ride scooters on rail trails.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

chuckha62 said:


> Mike V? Seriously, with your post count you may not have followed the posts about this nutcase, you may have been a victim of the man himself.


That would almost be an honor. He's the mad king of all HOH.


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