# Freeride hardtails?



## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

Who makes them? I've got an XC oriented Kona, and I'm starting to take an interest in FR around campus and in the city, so I've been thinking about a FR bike. I wouldn't be opposed to selling my Kona... I got a good deal on it, replaced many drivetrain parts, so I think I could get just as much out of it as I paid for it. 

How much would a hardtail FR bike cost me? I've been looking on craigslist, but the closest thing I've seen in the past 2 weeks is a 2000 Kona Stinky 5 for $500. That's a bit old. The seller replaced a bunch of stuff but I have no idea what kind of condition internally the fork and shock are in. I've been thinking about a hardtail because I haven't found anything full squish that is even remotely close to my price range, which might be too tight for something worthwhile. Ebay hasn't turned up much other than sellers entering every bike-related word and phrase into their ad so turns up in nearly every bike related search. 

Ideas? What should I look for? Sizing? My Kona is an 18" now, but that might be too big. My shorts touch the top tube, but my junk clears it just barely. 17"? 16.5"? Oh, if I can find a good deal on a frame and fork and whatnot, I would probably go for it and build the bike up myself. I've never done it before, but after replacing a cassette and installing a bottom bracket and cranks, it can't all be that hard. Headset and crown race are still an LBS job, but everything else I can do so don't hesitate to recommend just a frame and fork.

I'm not doing 20' drops or hucking 30' gaps, but my XC hardtail wasn't really designed to be subjected to 3' or 4' drops and steps, etc.


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## Chumba15 (Jul 3, 2009)

specialized p2

http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/530622/

http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/408278/

600 for both of them! Let me know if this helps


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## jcin (Jan 15, 2008)

i got a chameleon with a 36 talas that has stayed in 4'' mode after trying 5 and 6'' for like five minutes. the geo is way better and fun that way. dont think freeride as much as jump/pedal bike for a hardtail. and they are really fun if you already have a full sus. bike


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

jcin said:


> i got a chameleon with a 36 talas that has stayed in 4'' mode after trying 5 and 6'' for like five minutes. the geo is way better and fun that way. dont think freeride as much as jump/pedal bike for a hardtail. and they are really fun if you already have a full sus. bike


What do you mean don't think it's jump/pedal?

My Kona is a hardtail and I was looking at freeride hardtails because I haven't found anything full suspension used at a decent price.


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## Chumba15 (Jul 3, 2009)

How much are you looking to spend? you can find plenty of nice full suspension bikes used for 700-1000


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

Chumba15 said:


> How much are you looking to spend? you can find plenty of nice full suspension bikes used for 700-1000


$1000 is about my absolute maximum. Really, it all depends on how much I can sell my Kona for. Cheaper the better, but I don't want to compromise too much to get a cheaper bike.


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## Chumba15 (Jul 3, 2009)

bacon11 said:


> $1000 is about my absolute maximum. Really, it all depends on how much I can sell my Kona for. Cheaper the better, but I don't want to compromise too much to get a cheaper bike.


http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/2240020/ 900

http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/526590/ 850

http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/513982/ 900

There are plenty of bikes, I found those in two minutes. Just gotta look


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

Talking with someone off the forum, they recommended that I see if I can buy a used fleet bike and see if the park would ship it to me. I could get a full squish that way.


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## justcheckin (Feb 19, 2009)

ive heard good things about the azonic steelheads, a friend of mine did a single speed build with a 6" fork, i forget which one it is. i think its a talas. he can adjust it down to like 4". we just use it for urban freeriding (prettymuch a big bmx bike) and it cost him around 800$


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

justcheckin said:


> ive heard good things about the azonic steelheads, a friend of mine did a single speed build with a 6" fork, i forget which one it is. i think its a talas. he can adjust it down to like 4". we just use it for urban freeriding (prettymuch a big bmx bike) and it cost him around 800$


That's basically what I'm looking for. Not sure if I want a single speed or a 1x9 setup, but a bomb proof frame and 6" up front is the kind of set up I want.

Can anyone recommend some parts? If I buy new, I was going to get something like a Transition Vagrant, Fox TALAS or Float, RS Pike, Azonic Outlaws... and that's about as far as I've gotten. Hayes 9's with 7 or 8" rotors should be fine for urban, no? If I went used, it'd be whatever I could get for like $800 or under, full suspension. Building it up myself, it would be a new hardtail or a used full suspension because buying a new FS frame is way out of the budget.


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## b4 stealth (Sep 9, 2007)

bacon11 said:


> That's basically what I'm looking for. Not sure if I want a single speed or a 1x9 setup, but a bomb proof frame and 6" up front is the kind of set up I want.
> 
> Can anyone recommend some parts? If I buy new, I was going to get something like a Transition Vagrant, Fox TALAS or Float, RS Pike, Azonic Outlaws... and that's about as far as I've gotten. Hayes 9's with 7 or 8" rotors should be fine for urban, no? If I went used, it'd be whatever I could get for like $800 or under, full suspension. Building it up myself, it would be a new hardtail or a used full suspension because buying a new FS frame is way out of the budget.


Vagrant is Out of Production, I bought the last one  The SC chameleon is way more expensive, and probably not as durable, but it seems like a pretty close competitor. The banshee morhpine is like 4 tons, but you will never break it. Ever. That seems to be the closest competitor I have seen to the Vagrant. As of last summer when I was shopping anyways. I would run either a Float or a Van. I have the 36 Talas RC2, and don't get me wrong, it is a great fork. Buttery smooth, stiff, very well made, I just wish had spent the $200 for the travel adjust somewhere else. I don't use it that much. Although quite frankly, at 1k for the whole bike, a new Fox is pretty far out of your price range. There are plenty of more reasonably priced alternatives. RS Lyric, Pike, are the two that come to mind. At that travel though, make sure you get the 20mm through axle. Azonic Outlaws are nice and solid. I am running those. Hayes = bad. I would look for some Elixir R's if you want some great bang for the buck. From building up a bike of my own. Places to splurge IMO are Wheels, Suspension, Cranks, Brakes. Places you can afford to cut some corners are Tires (be careful with that one) Shifters, Derailleurs, Chain, Cassette, Bars/Stem(as long as they still have the right measurements), pedals (again, to a point). Hope that helps.


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

b4 stealth said:


> Vagrant is Out of Production, I bought the last one  The SC chameleon is way more expensive, and probably not as durable, but it seems like a pretty close competitor. The banshee morhpine is like 4 tons, but you will never break it. Ever. That seems to be the closest competitor I have seen to the Vagrant. As of last summer when I was shopping anyways. I would run either a Float or a Van. I have the 36 Talas RC2, and don't get me wrong, it is a great fork. Buttery smooth, stiff, very well made, I just wish had spent the $200 for the travel adjust somewhere else. I don't use it that much. Although quite frankly, at 1k for the whole bike, a new Fox is pretty far out of your price range. There are plenty of more reasonably priced alternatives. RS Lyric, Pike, are the two that come to mind. At that travel though, make sure you get the 20mm through axle. Azonic Outlaws are nice and solid. I am running those. Hayes = bad. I would look for some Elixir R's if you want some great bang for the buck. From building up a bike of my own. Places to splurge IMO are Wheels, Suspension, Cranks, Brakes. Places you can afford to cut some corners are Tires (be careful with that one)  Shifters, Derailleurs, Chain, Cassette, Bars/Stem(as long as they still have the right measurements), pedals (again, to a point). Hope that helps.


I know the Vagrant is out of production, but something along those lines is what I meant.

Thinking about it, travel adjust cost is better spent towards something else, or not at all. 20mm TA is high priority. To save money up front and to get the rubber side down sooner, I was thinking about skipping shifter(s), derailleur, and cassette and going single speed to start. If that doesn't work out for urban to start, I'll just cannibalize the rear derailleur and shifter from my Kona and convert that to a light single speed. I'm a pretty big guy (220lb, 6'1) so bomber cranks are a necessity really. Any ideas? I'm pretty hard on my bike because I haven't learned to ride smooth yet, so for freeride, I don't mind so much about weight, I just need it to be durable.

So far:
20mm TA
Azonic Outlaws
Hayes = bad

I'll take a look at those frames you mentioned. :thumbsup:

Any other ideas, anyone?


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Saint or Deity cranks.


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## b4 stealth (Sep 9, 2007)

^^^+1. Especially if you are going singlespeed, pick up some decent BMX cranks, I haven't heard anything bad about the diety's. Personally I ride Raceface Evolve DH, and while they are nice cranks, go together well, haven't given me any issues, they are heavy as hell.


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## blender (Oct 28, 2005)

I have a Large Vagrant in really good condition that i'll be throwing on the market soon.
PM me if interested


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

Saint cranks are prohibitively expensive for now. Deity maybe. I love the Deity white. What other cranks are worth it?

Do all BMX cranks work on mountain frames? What style bottom bracket does a mountain frame have? 

So far:
20mm TA fork
Azonic Outlaws
Hayes = bad
Deity cranks (maybe Saints)


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## BWVDubya (Nov 19, 2007)

FWIW: The Deity crank will not fit on a Vagrant, if you end up with a Vagrant. Been there, done that.


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

BWVDubya said:


> FWIW: The Deity crank will not fit on a Vagrant, if you end up with a Vagrant. Been there, done that.


No worries... Vagrants seem to be hard to come by. I'm looking at other frame and complete bike options too.


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## BWVDubya (Nov 19, 2007)

I just sold a Vagrant


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

Complete bike or just the frame? Transition's site said they were selling the frame for $420 new. What'd you sell yours for, if you don't mind my asking?


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## BWVDubya (Nov 19, 2007)

Mostly complete minus the wheels and bars. I sold it for $450 shipped


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

Damn... what was on it?


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## BWVDubya (Nov 19, 2007)

bacon11 said:


> Damn... what was on it?


RS Domain, Juicy 5's, TBC seat, TBC pedals, some tires, Dangerboy headset, Truvativ Husselfelt crankset and chain guide, Cane Creek Double X headset and some other misc stuff


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

Wow. Nice bike. 

Maybe a fr hardtail used won't be as expensive as I think it'll be.


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## BWVDubya (Nov 19, 2007)

bacon11 said:


> Wow. Nice bike.
> 
> Maybe a fr hardtail used won't be as expensive as I think it'll be.


You'd be surprised at how cheap you can find some things. Keep your eye out on here and check the pinkbike classifieds and craigslist.


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

I don't have the money together right now unless someone wants to take a trade of my Kona, which I'd prefer to keep just to have a huck bike and an XC bike, but if the deal is good, I'd sell or trade it.


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## Eric Hoefer (Jan 19, 2004)

The Jamis Komodo is another frame you could look into. It is a fairly cheap frame to build off of that would suit your needs well. I use mine for mostly freeride purposes and absolutely love it. Mine came out at a little over a grand but with the right build you could easily get it built for under the $1000 mark.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

I've got a 243 racing hardtail that is completely bombproof. Pretty nice ride, I can't ride it to it's potential that's for sure. Considering selling it to buy a whip I'll ride more.


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

Jim311 said:


> I've got a 243 racing hardtail that is completely bombproof. Pretty nice ride, I can't ride it to it's potential that's for sure. Considering selling it to buy a whip I'll ride more.


Specs? Not that I'm shopping, just trying to get an idea of what people put on a FR bike opposed to an AM or DH.

What are your impressions of what you've got?


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## illu (Dec 28, 2007)

My Zumbi might be regarded as a freeride hardtail


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

bacon11 said:


> Specs? Not that I'm shopping, just trying to get an idea of what people put on a FR bike opposed to an AM or DH.
> 
> What are your impressions of what you've got?


243 "FR" frame, size long/large
Mavic Deetracks wheels, singlespeeded
Hayes Hydros, 8" front 6 rear
Race Face North Shore freeride cranks, Spot bash ring
RF grips, Easton stem and regular size bars
Marzocchi 66 VF fork

Seat tube is too short to really pedal much on a trail, and the frame and wheels are crazy stiff, not a really forgiving ride. But the geometry is really confidence inspiring and it jumps really well, even raked out with a big fork. It's a really fun play bike, just begs to be whipped, tabled, etc, and it's also perfect for urban freeriding or street.


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

Been looking at that 243FR and some other 243 bikes... is the 243FR really the only one that can deal with FR stuff? They mainly look like street and skatepark bikes.

illu, that Zumbi is a nice looking bike. All of their stuff looks nice, just prohibitively expensive for now.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

I think the only real difference between the "FR" version and the street bikes is an extra plate/gusset on the head tube. Slightly heavier if I recall. I bought mine on Ebay for 300 dollars from a pawn shop... it's a shame there aren't dirt jumps closer to home that are worth a damn or I'd ride it more.


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## FoShizzle (Jan 18, 2004)

illu said:


> My Zumbi might be regarded as a freeride hardtail


psick


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

Jim311 said:


> I think the only real difference between the "FR" version and the street bikes is an extra plate/gusset on the head tube. Slightly heavier if I recall. I bought mine on Ebay for 300 dollars from a pawn shop... it's a shame there aren't dirt jumps closer to home that are worth a damn or I'd ride it more.


That and the FR one has ISCG tabs and the others don't. I kind of want the ability to run a chainguide.


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## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

bacon11 said:


> Wow. Nice bike.


hehehe, i already love it. i swapped the wheels off of a friend's bike and rode it around just so get what it might feel like... awesome is all i can say, and that was without the girps brakes and chain installed.


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## daway (Jun 15, 2008)

Here is my Vagrant. I love it, the perfect FR hardtail. Set up with a Domain 318 U turn. I bought the frame, cranks, and seatpost for $250.


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

Was that the one from pinkbike with the stripped pinch bold on the NDS crank arm? I saw that, the guy wanted $350 or 400... I don't remember. I was going to offer him $200 and not a dollar more, but I don't have that kind of money (to build up a bike) to throw around right now.


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## Jkosmo (Aug 15, 2009)

bacon11 said:


> Was that the one from pinkbike with the stripped pinch bold on the NDS crank arm? I saw that, the guy wanted $350 or 400... I don't remember. I was going to offer him $200 and not a dollar more, but I don't have that kind of money (to build up a bike) to throw around right now.


I sent that seller an email a little while back and he never got back to me. Looks like I will be picking up a Vagrant from a member here though to build up this winter.


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## daway (Jun 15, 2008)

bacon11 said:


> Was that the one from pinkbike with the stripped pinch bold on the NDS crank arm? I saw that, the guy wanted $350 or 400... I don't remember. I was going to offer him $200 and not a dollar more, but I don't have that kind of money (to build up a bike) to throw around right now.


Were you asking me? I got mine a while ago off some local guy. Between $200-300 seems to be the going rate for the frames these days. I don't think I'll ever sell mine, I love it way too much.


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## skyjumper (Apr 14, 2006)

I love my Duncon Cocker. I run it with a pike, usually set at around 120mm of travel and I abuse that bike so much! Also quite the dirtjumper!


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

Jkosmo said:


> I sent that seller an email a little while back and he never got back to me. Looks like I will be picking up a Vagrant from a member here though to build up this winter.


Lucky. Pics when you're done, please. 



daway said:


> Were you asking me? I got mine a while ago off some local guy. Between $200-300 seems to be the going rate for the frames these days. I don't think I'll ever sell mine, I love it way too much.


Yeah, I was asking you. The guy I rode with (Glynis27 on here) loves his, from what I can tell.

I talked with a guy at the LBS today about hubs and forks for a freeride bike. I asked him if Shimano XT's would be enough or would I have to get some wheels made up with DT or Hadley or Hope hubs to make the wheels worthwhile for freeride. He said Shimano XT's will last a lifetime as long as you keep up with the maintenance (said tear down and repack with grease 2 or 3 times a season) but Hopes and Hadley and Chris King would be great too, if I had the money. I also asked him if a Fox Float 32 or 36 would be good, RockShox Pike or would I need something like a Lyric, and what from Marzocchi would be good. He said Marzocchi makes some bomber forks (no pun intended) and that they have a budget line that is still performance oriented. Is that the 55 line? Which internals, because I know Marzocchi has like 12 different internal lines?

Instead of worrying about hubs, should I just stick with the Azonic Outlaws, and look forward to their new 2010 colors?


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## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

ick... Marzocchi forks... i know a few people with them and they seem to blow up fairly easily


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## Enduramil (Mar 1, 2007)

Since know one has mentioned it,

DMR Trailstar is option to consider.


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## Enduramil (Mar 1, 2007)

bacon11 said:


> Lucky. Pics when you're done, please.
> 
> Yeah, I was asking you. The guy I rode with (Glynis27 on here) loves his, from what I can tell.
> 
> ...


 Focus on the frame first then look at adding the parts.

Start checking out Pinkbike as this is the start of the dumping season, meaning that people will sell off all their extra parts to raise capital for the next new thing. And alot of them are in good condition.


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## bcbud (Jun 1, 2009)

Chromag Stylus or the TRL are sweet frames that can handle anything, the owner Ian has raced his down Mount 7 in Golden for the Psychosis.....www.chromagbikes.com....


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## Enduramil (Mar 1, 2007)

Forgot this DMR offering,

http://www.dmrbikes.com/?Section=pr...ategory=7&CategoryName=Frames&itemid=FRMExalt


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

That DMR looks extra sexy. Those Chromag frames look great too, but they are pretty expensive. The Zumbi one looked great but again, expensive. I wouldn't mind a black DMR Exalt... hell, I wouldn't mind a white or raw one either.


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## Glynis27 (Sep 28, 2007)

illu said:


> My Zumbi might be regarded as a freeride hardtail


Son of a......I was just about to pick up a set of the blue tweet tweets and put them on a orange hardtail. Was thinking blue Pro II hubs. It looks even better than I imagined it would.


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

Glynis27 said:


> Son of a......I was just about to pick up a set of the blue tweet tweets and put them on a orange hardtail. Was thinking blue Pro II hubs. It looks even better than I imagined it would.


So... does that mean you're selling your Vagrant?


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## Glynis27 (Sep 28, 2007)

bacon11 said:


> So... does that mean you're selling your Vagrant?


Hell no!

The new bike would be more XC oriented while the Vagrant would pick up FR and Ray's duty.


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## bacon11 (Jul 3, 2009)

Glynis27 said:


> Hell no!
> 
> The new bike would be more XC oriented while the Vagrant would pick up FR and Ray's duty.


Hey, it was worth a shot. 

Well, I'm converting the Kona to Rays duty via SS, moving the rear mech to whatever FR frame I get, and going 1x9 I think. I just need the SS rear cog kit and a single ring crankset, along with all of the bits to build up a freeride bike.

Back to searching on pinkbike and ridemonkey.


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