# General demeanour of road users in Europe (better or worse?)



## ar1981 (Oct 11, 2006)

I'm just interested to know if people have noticed a general greater feeling of safety when cycling in Europe as opposed to the more westernized countries such as the States, Australia, etc...

Is there more respect for us cyclists?


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## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*Are you an idiot?*



ar1981 said:


> I'm just interested to know if people have noticed a general greater feeling of safety when cycling in Europe as opposed to the _*more westernized*_ countries such as the States, Australia, etc...
> 
> Is there more respect for us cyclists?


Or do you just play one on TV? Go through your post and find the part that anybody who lives, or has lived in Europe, may find offensive.

When I your post, I couldn't decide if I wanted to laugh or slap my head in despair. Then I saw you've probably never been up north.

Europe is cycling friendly.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

The US being more "westernized" has zero respect for bicycling and bicyclists.

The European savages at least respect two wheel transport.


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

ar1981 said:


> I'm just interested to know if people have noticed a general greater feeling of safety when cycling in Europe as opposed to the more westernized countries such as the States, Australia, etc...
> 
> Is there more respect for us cyclists?


The safest place I've ever cycled is Vancouver. Montreal is scary. Central London is surprisingly safe but A and M roads in London are more dangerous. Parts of rural England are a bit scary because of twisty, blind roads but cycling in the Lakes District seems quite safe. Riders in the Western (European) Alps get a lot of respect, but they sure don't in Slovakia, which has recently banned mountain biking. Central Sydney was surprisingly safe, suburban Sydney less so. Start to get the idea?

And just how are the US and Australia more 'Westernised' than, say, France or Switzerland? :madman:


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## ar1981 (Oct 11, 2006)

womble said:


> And just how are the US and Australia more 'Westernised' than, say, France or Switzerland? :madman:


I think I was just refering to the western "philosophy" of driving huge SUVS which get 1 MPG, and a sort of "I own the road" mentality which gives other road users, such as cyclists little or no respect.

Was thinking these sort of ideals and the thinking patterns that come with them aren't so prevalent in less western countries...

Denmark being one of them.

Hopefully you get my drift :thumbsup:


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Here in Germany, cars have to stay at least 1 meter away from cyclist and cyclists have to be on the bike lane, if one is available, or on to the right side of the lane. I have personally seen both rules enforced.


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## sic_nick (Oct 18, 2005)

Drivers in the UK are getting worse, I have at least one incident a week of bad driving with people still using mobile phones while driving or just out and out bad driving habits. There should be a period of at least a month after passing your driving test (or whilst you are learning) when you must use two wheel transport in order to appreciate how they need to act towards motorbikes and cyclists especially in the wet and icy conditions.


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

sic_nick said:


> Drivers in the UK are getting worse, I have at least one incident a week of bad driving with people still using mobile phones while driving or just out and out bad driving habits. There should be a period of at least a month after passing your driving test (or whilst you are learning) when you must use two wheel transport in order to appreciate how they need to act towards motorbikes and cyclists especially in the wet and icy conditions.


Out of curiosity, where in the UK are you? I've found London drivers to be some of the best in the world in terms of how alert and spatially aware they are. Probably something to do with the narrow streets and that the driving population is very self-selected.


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## balfazed (Sep 28, 2005)

I have no real comparison, because I could ride in the states just a few times, and only in NJ. I can say that it was one of my best experiences in my life. Cars passed me with a distance of 3 meters. But I am sure that this is different in other states. 
Crisillo mentioned Slovakia as a bad example. I can't agree, I never had any trouble in Slovakia, however it's not like Germany. I live in Hungary, there was a huge development in respect towards cyclist in the big cities. This is probably due to the growing numbers of cycle commuters. Now I feel quite safe in the city, but not so on the roads.


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## eric (Jan 22, 2004)

I suspect European drivers are much more used to cyclists sharing the road. Also, in urban areas the traffic speed is generally a bit slower (at least here it is, with all the congestion....).

The downside is many places in Europe have bike-specific lanes. They are often impractical because the average speed there is about 10 mph. Ride outside the lanes and all the respect is gone....


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Are those speed limits enforced?


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## eric (Jan 22, 2004)

I think congestion and the sheer frequency of traffic lights prevents people driving faster in the larger cities here. FWIW, in most towns in western and central Europe the urban max. is 50 km/h.

Of course there are enough larger roads as well, with higher speed limits and less stuff to slow down motorized traffic, but many of the city ring roads and such are prohibited for cyclists anyway.


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## Crockpot2001 (Nov 2, 2004)

Sicilia was fantastic. Drivers are totally f'n nuts untill they see bikes and they become ward cleaver. 
Sweden was the similar but that they ALWAYS drive within the rules. Theonly exception is when the hiway opens up to a runway for planes (common). When this happens all hell breaks loose and the viking in everyone emerges. 
South Korea is a death zone for the road. Offroad appears to be wonderful per the report from the squaw.


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

balfazed said:


> Crisillo mentioned Slovakia as a bad example.




I think you got something mixed up...my post above only refers to germany..I didn't mention any other country or criticized anybody...


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## Dekes (Jan 3, 2007)

notaknob said:


> Or do you just play one on TV? Go through your post and find the part that anybody who lives, or has lived in Europe, may find offensive.
> 
> When I your post, I couldn't decide if I wanted to laugh or slap my head in despair. Then I saw you've probably never been up north.
> 
> Europe is cycling friendly.


I live in europe, we have no TV and no elevators, I ride a donkey to work every morning :thumbsup:


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## arewenotmen (Jan 20, 2008)

womble said:


> The safest place I've ever cycled is Vancouver. Montreal is scary. Central London is surprisingly safe but A and M roads in London are more dangerous.


I hope you haven't ridden on an M road in the UK!


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