# Shifting while applying heavy pedal pressure, problem?



## Govnor (Nov 24, 2015)

Noob question here, no doubt.

I am getting a feel for my new bike. The one thing I don't like is that there seems to be (and I don't know the technical term here) a large skip/heavy shifting slip when I'm going up hill and shifting down for a smaller gear.

Is this something that I need to learn to do with my pedal stroke/gear shift timing or is this something that needs to be adjusted? It's off putting and doesn't feel right to me.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

you shouldn't shift with heavy pressure on the pedals ever, or even moderate pressure. get your shifting done before you get to the uphill, or ease up so there is only very light pressure when you change gears. 

trying to shift under heavy load will wreck your drivetrain, and you will end up breaking your chain. not to mention you look like an amateur to anyone within ear-shot. 

always try to shift gently.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

What he said. Shifting under load will trash your drive and and or cause chain breakage.
How to "soft pedal shift".
While pedaling, you need to pause for just a second, shift, them resume. If you do this correctly you shift should be almost silent.





#1


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## Govnor (Nov 24, 2015)

Thanks guys, I will work on it!!


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Think about how your drivetrain works. You are physically derailing the chain from one cog to another with a lever (your derailleur). There are ramps and all sorts of thing built into most modern drivetrain components to aid with this. Still, if you are under full load it's going to make some noise. Best to do your shifting before the climb or learn to ease the shifter up the cassette into lower gears by slightly easing up on your power as you shift. It just takes some practice.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

All the above is great advice.

If you've found yourself on a hill and in too tall a gear, and need to downshift but want to keep momentum, try:

Stomp out a couple pedal strokes at high effort without changing gear
Back off to really low power - and simultaneously trigger in the shift
Keep turning the pedals just quick enough that the freewheel doesn't click in (pedal at like 20W delivered power)
Once you hear it finish grabbing the right gear, get back to mashing.

If required, repeat this whole procedure (probably required for longer hills).


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

I would add that you don't want to significantly drop off your cadence during the shift, or you will find yourself slamming the pawls in the freehub pretty hard when you bring back the power. Not so much a problem for those that have ten billion points of engagement, but for those of us that have learned to drop cadence just enough, POE doesn't make a difference, and you never break the cheapest part that can hobble a not so cheap freehub assembly.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

^ all that, and i'll add that if you (I) get to an unexpected uphill and it's too late to shift it's better to stay in the gear your in and just mash the pedals or stand up and hammer. easier on the drivetrain and makes you a stronger rider.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Where I have ridden on some difficult hills, my bikes have always been able to downshift under heavy load. That said, it's bad practice. However, there are desperate times when you get caught off guard or you find out about half way up the mountain that you're more tired than you thought. Downshifting one cog at a time will not blow anything up. But if you just slam the shifter and expect the chain to just jump up 2 or 3 cogs you will probably break something.

-F


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Fleas said:


> Where I have ridden on some difficult hills, my bikes have always been able to downshift under heavy load. That said, it's bad practice. However, there are desperate times when you get caught off guard or you find out about half way up the mountain that you're more tired than you thought. Downshifting one cog at a time will not blow anything up. But if you just slam the shifter and expect the chain to just jump up 2 or 3 cogs you will probably break something.
> 
> -F


OP lives in my area. He's not dealing with climbs that long. Terrain here tends to be pretty rolling. Climbs tend to be short, but somewhat steep. If you're strong, yeah, on many of them, you can hammer on the leadup, and then really mash to finish the climb. Some of them don't quite work that way. The lead up to the climb might be a slow segment of trail, or the climb might be just a shade too long to mash the whole way up.

The question becomes not whether a downshift is going to be possible, but deciding when to do it and making it happen smoothly.

Some local places (that the OP is not riding yet, AFAIK) have climbs that are steep enough that a lot of riders have to get off and walk. You'll start off with some nice momentum from a downhill and the trail immediately kicks upward. Your mo' carries you part of the way, but you've gotta start pedaling at some point. AND you have to dump a lot of gears, because the grade kicks up in excess of 30%. Dump too late, and you get caught at too low of a cadence, the shift doesn't happen, and if you try to force it, you break $hit. Dump too early and you're spinning out. I usually wind up dropping gears slowly by soft-pedaling while my earlier momentum carries me up the beginning of the hill. My final gear choice depends on the hill I'm tackling. If it's a really steep one where my momentum won't carry me anywhere close to the top, I'll go clear down to granny. If my momentum carries me closer to the top, I might not drop many and I'll power up it. It all depends.

In short, there's some trial-and-error involved to learn what the bike's capabilities offer you, and to learn what YOUR capabilities are, and then you have to figure out how to interpret the terrain and conditions into the right shift. You will mess up. I agree that it's better on the bike to mash than to shift under load. But you're going to have to practice softening up on the pedals just enough to allow the bike to shift. If you don't quite pull that off, then it's far better to get off and walk than it is to try to force the issue and break something.


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## JustinF433 (May 13, 2015)

Not sure what your background is but if you ride mx it's sort of like shifting without clutch, in my experience.


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## Govnor (Nov 24, 2015)

Thanks to you all for the feedback. 

My background is no serious cycling at all, really.

I had BMXs when I was young and rode them a lot.

I had a crappy hybrid bike for a year and a half that I did a triathlon on, but you were on nice smooth roads and could shift gear way ahead of time. With MTB, you have to decide quickly what you want to do. It sounds like I need to concentrate on reading the trail and knowing which gears match my ability, and stamina. 

Then making the right decision on shifting or not, if I get caught out! A learning process for sure! I will be a lot more careful from now on though.


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## -Todd- (Jun 13, 2011)

A rule of thumb... If it sounds ugly when you shift, it's probably because it is ugly. These small, precise aluminum parts will not tolerate abuse and forces in directions they weren't designed for.

Depending on your weight and strength, you'll find out sooner or later how it affects longevity of those parts and the cost of better replacement parts... 

Good Luck!


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## Govnor (Nov 24, 2015)

-Todd- said:


> A rule of thumb... If it sounds ugly when you shift, it's probably because it is ugly. These small, precise aluminum parts will not tolerate abuse and forces in directions they weren't designed for.
> 
> *Depending on your weight and strength*, you'll find out sooner or later how it affects longevity of those parts and the cost of better replacement parts...
> 
> Good Luck!


Weight - not much!
Strength - even less!!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Harold said:


> OP lives in my area. He's not dealing with climbs that long. Terrain here tends to be pretty rolling. Climbs tend to be short, but somewhat steep. If you're strong, yeah, on many of them, you can hammer on the leadup, and then really mash to finish the climb. Some of them don't quite work that way. The lead up to the climb might be a slow segment of trail, or the climb might be just a shade too long to mash the whole way up.
> ...


We have a few old trails with down-up ravine crossings here with only a sharp transition through the bottom. More than a few people opt to downshift on the downhill approach, coast into it, then, like you, soft pedal into hopefully the "right" gear to complete the short and very steep climb. It could be 10 seconds between when you shift and when you actually put down some power. Of course, if you land in the wrong gear one little shift won't end your day. My wife and I rode the same trails on our tandem, shifting up and down the steep hills. No achey breaky derailleur.

-F


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Approach it like you would a manual transmission on a car.

You have to let off, albeit very briefly, in order to switch gears.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Fleas said:


> We have a few old trails with down-up ravine crossings here with only a sharp transition through the bottom. More than a few people opt to downshift on the downhill approach, coast into it, then, like you, soft pedal into hopefully the "right" gear to complete the short and very steep climb. It could be 10 seconds between when you shift and when you actually put down some power. Of course, if you land in the wrong gear one little shift won't end your day. My wife and I rode the same trails on our tandem, shifting up and down the steep hills. No achey breaky derailleur.
> 
> -F


It's hard to break a derailleur that way, but I broke many chains as a noob due to poor shifting on some of those old Ohio down-up ravine crossings. I don't usually shift QUITE that early (on the downhill portion), though. For me, I usually will start dealing with shifting at the bottom of the climb while I still have momentum on my side.

I've only ever broken derailleurs from getting stuff tangled in them or banging them off things. Come to think of it, I haven't broken a derailleur in a LONG time. Modern derailleurs don't stick out nearly so much and are less likely to catch on things. I wore out a rear derailleur recently...the pivots got sloppy to the point where it couldn't keep the chain in place anymore.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

Like lots of other MTB skills, it's something you learn over time. You will learn to anticipate and time downshifts so you don't get stuck trying to push to big a gear. You can shift while climbing as long as you have enough forward momentum to keep moving for the 1/2 second it takes to ease off the pedals and shift, then resume pedaling. And like other MTB skills, it won't come all at once, but it will come. One little smile-inducing victory at a time.


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## TSpice (May 15, 2015)

Stand and Hammah! There is a reason there is a whole cult following to the single speed mountain bikes. They don't downshift on a climb, they eat their Wheaties and power through. 

Seriously though, this was one of the first things I had to learn considering I came from road cycling where you shift frequently. Road cycling is all about holding a specific cadence, and shifting based on elevation changes to keep your heart rate where you want it. So every uphill you tend to shift back slightly while keeping your 100 cadence, downhills you shift up to keep pressure under your feet at 100 cadence, etc. 

Mountain biking, I generally keep my bike in a flatland or slight climb gear. That way if an unexpected hill shows up, I am more equipped to get a good run at it. On downhills I can power stroke 3-4 pedals before I lose pressure under my feet and then coast the descent while standing. I don't like pedaling downhill on mountain because usually the terrain isn't smooth enough anyways to sit down and eat drops/roots/rocks at high velocity.


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## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

The skill IMBA teaches is the "Three S's". 

Surge
Soft 
Shift

You surge your pedaling for a stroke or two to add a little momentum. 
Then Soft pedal. 
While you're Soft pedaling you Shift.


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## Savvy Borador (Oct 14, 2015)

Really enjoyed reading this. I, too, am a Newbie, and love learning from threads on this forum.


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

Metamorphic said:


> The skill IMBA teaches is the "Three S's".
> 
> Surge
> Soft
> ...


That's a far more elegant way of explaining what I tried to - it does work.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Savvy Borador said:


> Really enjoyed reading this. I, too, am a Newbie, and love learning from threads on this forum.


:thumbsup:

nobody told me when i started riding. i kept snapping chains and couldn't figure out why. i also didn't know that cross chain was bad. or that your chain stretches and if you run it too long you will ruin your entire drivetrain (cassette, chainrings, and chain) and have to replace a bunch of more expensive stuff instead of just periodically replacing your chain. all it takes is a $10-15 chain gauge and check it every so often. when it gets worn, replace and repeat.

be nice to your bike parts, they take a beating most of the time.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

*Shitting while applying heavy pedal pressure, problem?*

Only for the rider behind you


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Govnor, out of curiosity as another Indiana rider, what trails are you riding?


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## Govnor (Nov 24, 2015)

gmcttr said:


> Govnor, out of curiosity as another Indiana rider, what trails are you riding?


Only riding Southwestway right now. It's my local trails. I'm sure I'll move on to the other central Indiana ones when weather allows!


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Brown County State Park awaits with all skill level of trails....it's my local trails.


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## Govnor (Nov 24, 2015)

gmcttr said:


> Brown County State Park awaits with all skill level of trails....it's my local trails.


Yes, I'm really looking forward to trying it! Supposed to be unmatched in this area of the country.


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## amitpokhrel (Jan 16, 2016)

Tip: Always scan your road and look ahead for what you might encounter in the trail. Select your gear early before you hit the climb. This will save you from damaged parts and damaged knee


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

amitpokhrel said:


> Tip: Always scan your road and look ahead for what you might encounter in the trail. Select your gear early before you hit the climb. This will save you from damaged parts and damaged knee


If only it were that simple. 

If you are new to a given trail, and there's a hidden climb around the corner, you'll inevitably be mis-geared. Just the way it is. You can either try to brute force it if short enough in the big gear, or maybe slack things enough for a split second to get a clean gear change in. Or walk.


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