# Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under $60



## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

I didn't see any reviews online
got this hub off ebay for $57 shipped
Koozer HA04N
72 points of engagement, 6 pawl hub
took off the hub body, not much grease on the pawls so i added some which did quiet down the angry bees a bit
laced the hub to a stans flow rim
the pawls did drag a bit, rode around town for 20 min, and it is much better. should break in after some more miles
I gotta say, i'm impressed with the quality


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Pics?


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)




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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Looks nice but seems like every other Taiwanese hub out there. Quality on them is usually pretty good though, I know my brother has been riding a pair of Circus Monkey hubs for a number of years not without a single issue.


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

As far as I know this has the highest number of engagement points of any of the Taiwanese hubs


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## ASiameseCat (Aug 21, 2011)

If my hubs ever explode, I will take a chance and buy these . Are they convertible to different axle sizes?


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Interesting. Ever since I broke an axle on a Novatec and couldnt reach the warranty dept easily, I have decided to stick with name brands. 

I was able to get an axle eventually. Just took a lot of time.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah I think that warranty issues will be hit or miss depending on the company that you are working with. And from what I can tell they definitely are the highest engagement hubs out of the Taiwanese brands I have seen. 

Mind taking some pics of the hub body off (pawls) and then inside of the hub.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Dan GSR said:


> I didn't see any reviews online
> got this hub off ebay for $57 shipped
> Koozer HA04N
> 72 points of engagement, 6 pawl hub
> ...


FWIW grease in the pawls can cause engagement failure when it fills the ratchet ramps and the pawls skip.

I have had to clean the thick factory grease out of a few hubs because they skipped, and replaced it with thick oil.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

shiggy said:


> FWIW grease in the pawls can cause engagement failure when it fills the ratchet ramps and the pawls skip.
> 
> I have had to clean the thick factory grease out of a few hubs because they skipped, and replaced it with thick oil.


Shiggy, what do you mean by "thick oil" for the replacement? Is there specific stuff made for this type of application that you can readily buy somewhere?


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

gregnash said:


> Shiggy, what do you mean by "thick oil" for the replacement? Is there specific stuff made for this type of application that you can readily buy somewhere?


Just that. Thick oil, such as Phil's Tenacious Oil or similar (think gear oil). Needs to be viscous enough to not run out of the hub.

Using grease to quiet a hub is little better than oiling your brake pads to stop squealing.


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## billyrayeast (Dec 24, 2013)

How them Koozer hubs holding up??? I've had people asking me,figured I'd go to the source..Tanks


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

Loving it
I want to sell these and get red ones. My new frame had red accents


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Looks kinda like a knock of King hub


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

Those are the old version with 3 pawls. I think.

New ones look like this
















The hubs you can get them booth for $93 free shipping.


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## bryan_d (Mar 16, 2009)

This was asked previously, but are the hubs convertible?


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

What do they weigh?


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## billyrayeast (Dec 24, 2013)

Thanks for the reply Dan GSR they are nice looking hubs....The hubs that are coming out of Taiwan the last couple of years are good and if doesn't say Hadley,Hope,King,Shimano etc. on them,there more than likely made in Taiwan...most OEM hubs are manufactured in Taiwan...I've built wheels using cycletrack,dati,circus monkey,BHS.com hubs and I tell the guys the same thing,take them apart and clean them,put some oil on the pawls and teeth and they should last...


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## dgaddis1 (Jul 1, 2007)

Are the pawls offset? Did you actually count how clicks/points of engagement there are? I know some companies will claim X number of engagement points, but they simply multiplied the # of pawls times the # of teeth, so it's a bit misleading.


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

Yes they are offset, and yes I did confirm 72 poe


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Hmmm. Im liking the sound of these.


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

Anyone want some gold hubs?


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

I do.


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

machine4321 said:


> Hmmm. Im liking the sound of these.


 + 1 :yesnod:

New Koozer 72HD Hub CNC Aluminum 2 4 Bearing 32 Hole Front Rear MTB Road | eBay


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

less than $100 for pair here in the Philippines I might get em on Monday, will install them on alexrims xd-lite or wtb frequency i23 with pillar spokes..

I'd like to give koozer a chance, I saw one former who changed the sealed bearing into a ceramic sealed bearing additional $30 for 6pcs of ceramic bearings... 

I'm using shimano MT-15 no complaints except I just want to upgrade, will weigh in MT-15 first before buying the koozer, i23 and pillar spokes.. I heard that mt-15 is at 1.9kgs

and with koozer hubs 588grams with skewers pair, 200grams pillar spokes and nipples, wtb i23 820grams pair - total weight should be at 1608kgs

please correct me if I'm wrong with my computation

the custom wheelset will cost me $250 USD


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

got em for $91USd but noy yet installed, will post pics next time, still looking for pillar spokes and wtb frequency i19 size 26


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## R0lan (Jun 12, 2014)

This home come with 15mm thru axle caps and 12 x 142mm rear axle ? 
I found this in ebay but only see 9mm QR front and 135mm QR rear


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah I havent seen a thru-axle (front or rear) version of the Koozer yet, which is why I havent purchased them.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

there are 2 versions of koozer 1 with 3 pawls and the other with 6 pawls, you can't go wrong with them as it is labeled on the hubs.. I'm still hunting for wtb frequency i19 rim 26 and pillar spokes maybe after 2 weeks it will all be complete


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

check this out I saw a novatec with 6 pawls 72POE but looks like koozer, exactly the same, maybe it is a rebadge?

mars kingdom bikes - Binondo, Manila - Bike Shop, Outlet Store | Facebook

just keep on scrolling down the page and you will see the video


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## billyrayeast (Dec 24, 2013)

190 bucks....the koozer is more than likely a Novatec knock off


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

unfortunately my hunt for wtb frequency i19 was a failure, all shops out of stocks! so I just bought alexrims xd-lite will use the alex for a couple of months til i19 arrives, slapped on some pillar spokes psr2015, was looking for megalite SS not available here in P.I.

koozer hubs now installed here is the video sorry about the quality


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

I think the trick is to not use a thick grease.

I've been using Pedros synthetic (medium - light weight) in my Hope hubs for years now, summer, winter, zero issues.
It quiets them down very nicely.



shiggy said:


> FWIW grease in the pawls can cause engagement failure when it fills the ratchet ramps and the pawls skip.
> 
> I have had to clean the thick factory grease out of a few hubs because they skipped, and replaced it with thick oil.


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## Breitness24 (May 7, 2010)

Just bought a rear hub myself. My old hubs barely spin. Always down to give something new a go.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

is it also a koozer hub? can you post pic and video?


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## billyrayeast (Dec 24, 2013)

Dan have you taken the hub apart yet to take a look at the internals seeing as you've put some miles on them?


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

billyrayeast said:


> Dan have you taken the hub apart yet to take a look at the internals seeing as you've put some miles on them?


no time and tools to open up the hubs, I took em for a quick rainy ride last night, it was only at 18kms.. my build will only be for road use.. will hunt for 26x1.5 slick tires.. maxxis detonator or maybe something else


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

Dan GSR said:


> I didn't see any reviews online
> got this hub off ebay for $57 shipped
> Koozer HA04N
> 72 points of engagement, 6 pawl hub
> ...


Dan,

do you have a link or guide to open up koozer hubs? I would like to see the internals and post some pics... Hope to hear from you


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## billyrayeast (Dec 24, 2013)

try a 5mm allen and a 17/18mm cone wrench...5mm opposite the cassettte and the 17mm on the cassette side


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

All you need is 2 5mm allen keys to open up the hub.


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

Yup two 5mm alen keys


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm looking to replace the hub on my stock giant pxc2 rear wheel. The 27.5 version has an awfully ow engagement. Horrible for slow techy sections. 

Would this rear hub be better at 72 POE. The giant hub is 12POE but I don't know if that literally means the koozer is faster? 

I plan to use the same rims and buying whatever spokes are needed. 

I have no experience with wheel building but could someone enlighten me with what kind of spokes would be needed for this build? 

I plan to have a friend build it up for me. 

Thank you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

kikoraa said:


> I'm looking to replace the hub on my stock giant pxc2 rear wheel. The 27.5 version has an awfully ow engagement. Horrible for slow techy sections.
> 
> Would this rear hub be better at 72 POE. The giant hub is 12POE but I don't know if that literally means the koozer is faster?
> 
> ...


are you gonna use it for road and light trails, what I know is the koozer hubs is for light trails and road use only, not for downhill, all mountain and rocky roads


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

Hi all,

I was able to open up the side cap of the koozer hubs, but still no idea on how to remove the 4 bearings inside and remove the free hub body, I would like to replace the bearings into ceramic or japan made bearings


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

If its anything like the majority of these Chinese hubs, you remove the end caps using a 5mm allen key in either end to get one of the caps off. You then use a 10mm allen key in the axle end for the end cap you removed to get the other end cap off. Once the end cap from the freehub side is off, just grab the freehub and pull it off.

Take a look at my disassembly instructions for the bikehubstore MTB252 - chances are its similar or identical to what you need to do.

By the way, what are the bearing sizes in the Koozer hub?


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

TigWorld said:


> If its anything like the majority of these Chinese hubs, you remove the end caps using a 5mm allen key in either end to get one of the caps off. You then use a 10mm allen key in the axle end for the end cap you removed to get the other end cap off. Once the end cap from the freehub side is off, just grab the freehub and pull it off.
> 
> Take a look at my disassembly instructions for the bikehubstore MTB252 - chances are its similar or identical to what you need to do.
> 
> By the way, what are the bearing sizes in the Koozer hub?


thanks for the reply Tigworld,.. I tried pulling off the freehub but it doesn't want to go out..

not really sure about the size of the bearings.. will give it a shot next time..

by the way do I have to apply some oil to on the freehub body to act as lubricant? or just leave it as is...


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

caRpetbomBer said:


> Those are the old version with 3 pawls. I think.
> 
> New ones look like this
> View attachment 917449
> ...


this what I'm trying to do, still can't remove the bearings and free hub body, I think I may need to use a rubber hammer?


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## billyrayeast (Dec 24, 2013)

Both end caps are off Force? the body should come right off


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)




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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

billyrayeast said:


> Both end caps are off Force? the body should come right off


yup.. both end caps removed, I tried using 10mm allen and some tool to hammer it off, but no luck... I just wanna check if it is properly lubricated and also try and replace the bearings.. to Japanese made bearings

the bearings are working fine, but would love to have peace of mind with Japanese made bearings


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

caRpetbomBer said:


>


@carpetbomber
thanks a lot for the video, that is indeed a koozer hub, will try open up my hubs using the same method on the video. will also even try to post a video...


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## billyrayeast (Dec 24, 2013)

Good Job Force...How did everything look on the inside? any scoring on the body,that type of stuff? Thanks


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## billyrayeast (Dec 24, 2013)

See that little nick to the left of the pawl,any of that on the inside?


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## billyrayeast (Dec 24, 2013)

I'm OK!! To the Right


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

it is raining hard here in Philippines, I'll check if I can open the hubs later, I'm still at the office now, and about to go home.. freakin rainy season.. no choice but to ride on Monday even if it is raining hard


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

finally..! free hub body is out! i followed the steps on the video and was indeed surprised 

it was my 4th time to yank em out... light grease on the pawls and no nicks.. no dirt..

i didn't bother putting on some grease since it looks ok to me.. will let those bearings wear out see how long they will last..

thank you everyone.. for the help... great forum... great riders!


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## nmeuvdast8 (Aug 11, 2014)

@force what shop did you get those? Im from the philippines too.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

nmeuvdast8 said:


> @force what shop did you get those? Im from the philippines too.


it is only available at bike hub in san fernando pampanga, I'm from manila, or they say it is now available in quiapo but at $100 plus for the price P4,800

so why not try this one from novatec same technology 6 pawls with 72 POE 
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.758075630918819.1073742157.152712111455177&type=3

I already bought the koozer before I saw the novatec 6 pawls same price P3800


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## nmeuvdast8 (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks. Might get one if my plan of building a 650B pushes through.


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## Breitness24 (May 7, 2010)

Ok got my hub, took apart my rim and visually I thought I could reuse my spokes, hehe after lacing up the drive side it appears they aren't the same length. Has anyone laced these hubs to 29er flow rims non EX if that matters they are 3 yrs old. Im on a budget hence the hub but I have no idea how to calculate spoke length. If i brought the rim and hub to a store do you think they could figure it out for me?


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

For the rear 
259 left, 261 right if using 3x

Edit nevermind, that is for 26


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

Sorry I can't be of any help right now.. since I'm using 26 rims, no idea with 29 rims what kind of koozer you have right now? the 3 pawls or 6 pawls?


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## Breitness24 (May 7, 2010)

I'm using the 6pawl newer hubs. Dan stupid question. Why would drive and non drive be diff if the hub itself looks like both sides are the same diameter


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Dish.


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## thatcap (May 18, 2012)

Forcemajeure said:


> it is only available at bike hub in san fernando pampanga, I'm from manila, or they say it is now available in quiapo but at $100 plus for the price P4,800
> 
> so why not try this one from novatec same technology 6 pawls with 72 POE
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.758075630918819.1073742157.152712111455177&type=3
> ...


Can you tell me what model hub that NovaTec is? It is also a lot heavier than the Koozer hub - you think Novatec is making the Koozer hub?


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## billyrayeast (Dec 24, 2013)

DanGSR.....what's that hub look like?


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

Huh?


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

thatcap said:


> Can you tell me what model hub that NovaTec is? It is also a lot heavier than the Koozer hub - you think Novatec is making the Koozer hub?


i really don't have any idea what is the exact model of the Novatec, but it shows the old logo of novatec and they are not the same, it is a little bit heavier than koozer, about 40grams heavier


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## thatcap (May 18, 2012)

Forcemajeure said:


> not really what is the exact model of the Novatec, but it shows the old logo of novatec and they are not the same, it is a little bit heavier than koozer, about 40grams heavier


I'm Desperately trying to figure out who's manufacturing the Koozer Hub. It's a great hub but without Thru-axle capability front and rear it's pretty much useless!!


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

It says designed by Reeborn, I couldn't find more info


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

thatcap said:


> I'm Desperately trying to figure out who's manufacturing the Koozer Hub. It's a great hub but without Thru-axle capability front and rear it's pretty much useless!!


You might be able to find caps to convert them into thru axles. Im pretty sure some hubs use the same caps for conversion kits


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Breitness24 said:


> Ok got my hub, took apart my rim and visually I thought I could reuse my spokes, hehe after lacing up the drive side it appears they aren't the same length. Has anyone laced these hubs to 29er flow rims non EX if that matters they are 3 yrs old. Im on a budget hence the hub but I have no idea how to calculate spoke length. If i brought the rim and hub to a store do you think they could figure it out for me?


i'd say rather than asking/paying a shop spend the money on Roger Musson's Wheelbuilding book. $15 very well spent. There is a section on hub, rim & spoke measurement. Bicycle wheels, wheelbuilding book and courses Best wheelbuilding resource I've seen.


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## Breitness24 (May 7, 2010)

Got it all sorted out amazingly I had spokes that worked out,laced it up and had it trued for 30 bucks. I gotta admit I'm a little bummed that it's not loud. I'm a fan of those loud hubs.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

try visiting this website for more infos on koozer hubs RBN ????????? you need to click on translate to english

here is another video about my koozer, if I saw the novatec first, I will go with the novatec hubs even thous it is an old model...


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

billyrayeast said:


> DanGSR.....what's that hub look like?


Dan Gsr,

try viewing it over this link you can click previous and next buttons to view other pics
https://www.facebook.com/MARSKINGDO...2111455177/758075800918802/?type=1&permPage=1


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## Dan GSR (Apr 29, 2010)

That is not the koozer hub


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## augustiner (Jun 12, 2008)

C.M.S said:


> + 1 :yesnod:
> 
> New Koozer 72HD Hub CNC Aluminum 2 4 Bearing 32 Hole Front Rear MTB Road | eBay


I just picked up a set. I'd like to order my spokes and have them ready to build when they get here. Anyone know the dimensions so I can do a spoke calculation?


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## adamantane (Jan 27, 2005)

hey guys...i recently puchased a koozer rear hub...i just built it up this weekend, i like the sound, it's not too bad... it will probably be equivalent to an azonic outlaw hub....anyway, i laced it up to a what i think was a supra d rim...the measurements i used in the prowheel builder were ERD 540; axle 135; flng 57; left lck to flng 35; right lck to flng 50; 32H; 3X....i used 260 mm for drive side and 262 for brake side


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

so far I havn't tried my koozer hubs on trails, on their website it is only recommended for road use


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

now how do we remove and replace the old bearings on koozer? I wanna try full ceramic bearings on them


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## JOEPR09 (Jan 8, 2015)

IN THE WEBSITE SAID IS A MOUNTAIN BIKE HUB

HA04N | REBORN INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT LIMITED


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## JOEPR09 (Jan 8, 2015)

I FOUND IN EBAY, KOOZER HUB WITH 15MM FRONT AND 12X142 REAR. FRONT AND BACK FOR $92.99 FREE SHIPPING.

New Koozer HA02N HA04N 72HD Hub CNC Aluminum 2 4 Bearing 32h Front Rear MTB Road | eBay


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## JOEPR09 (Jan 8, 2015)

Here


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Just bought a set (in QR) because why not. Do they sell the endcaps anywhere if I want to change to 15mm later?


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

holy smucks..! this is crazy..!


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

so far my koozer hubs still doing great... i only use them on roads ang light trails... so satisfied with them... been using them for 4 months now


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## JOEPR09 (Jan 8, 2015)

cerebroside you have to ask the vendor.


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## brmeyer135 (Mar 1, 2013)

cerebroside said:


> Just bought a set (in QR) because why not. Do they sell the endcaps anywhere if I want to change to 15mm later?


Do you have caps now for qr size...if not, they can't make the hole bigger.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

brmeyer135 said:


> Do you have caps now for qr size...if not, they can't make the hole bigger.


Won't receive them for a while, but it looks like they do in the pictures.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

I'am now using koozer HAO4N and circus monkey hdw3


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## Cronoscr (Jan 26, 2015)

Hi, I want to buy a koozer hubs but I care about spare parts, Do you think the cassette body other brand works?


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

bring your bike to the shop and let them check out your bike


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## Cronoscr (Jan 26, 2015)

I'm between koozer or novatec , I dont now...


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Cronoscr said:


> I'm between koozer or novatec , I dont now...


Which Novatec are you looking at?


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## Cronoscr (Jan 26, 2015)

cerebroside said:


> Which Novatec are you looking at?


Novatec D711SB D712SB but the Koozer look and listen better and are cheaper than novatec XD


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## Breitness24 (May 7, 2010)

Ive had my koozer for a bout 3 months of weekly trail riding. Im a clyde at 270 and using it on my SS. So far so good, not too loud fast engagement Im happy.


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## Cronoscr (Jan 26, 2015)

thanks for your review (Y)


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Finally got mine. I have to say the packaging was way better than most stuff I buy from China. Custom printed box with folded cardboard inserts for the hubs to fit into, nice.

Hubs look great considering the price. Weights are more or less spot on claimed. Measured F 201 g / R 304 g.
The fronts are not convertible QR to 15mm, but I'm OK with buying another hub when I change forks.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

cerebroside said:


> Finally got mine. I have to say the packaging was way better than most stuff I buy from China. Custom printed box with folded cardboard inserts for the hubs to fit into, nice.
> 
> Hubs look great considering the price. Weights are more or less spot on claimed. Measured F 201 g / R 304 g.
> The fronts are not convertible QR to 15mm, but I'm OK with buying another hub when I change forks.


are you gonna use the koozer on trails? I'm using the koozer on light trails now.. hope it will last long


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

The current 12x142 rear is 3 pawl so 1/2 the engagement. They are working on a 6 pawl version.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Forcemajeure said:


> are you gonna use the koozer on trails? I'm using the koozer on light trails now.. hope it will last long


Yup, I'm building up a Commencal Meta HT SX 26. I'm about 200 lb geared up, but I ride pretty smooth trails (no rocks.)
Build is going to be 26" WTB Frequency i25 / Sapim Lasers w/ alloy hex nips / Koozers. Should be ~1800g. It's the middle of winter here, I probably won't be riding them until late April at the earliest.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

keep us updated with your setup...


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Pile of parts...









...And all laced up.

Final weight was 1801g for the set with WTB Freq i25 26", Sapim Laser spokes, and alloy hex nipples.


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## billyrayeast (Dec 24, 2013)

Nasty....that's a good weight for those rims,sub 2000 grams for a stout set of hoops..3x? and 32 hole...


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

billyrayeast said:


> Nasty....that's a good weight for those rims,sub 2000 grams for a stout set of hoops..3x? and 32 hole...


Yup, 32 hole 3x. Might not be the stoutest though, considering that this is my first wheel build.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

on my other rimset with circus monkey rims, pillar spokes psr2015tb and circus hdw3 hubs - 1500 kilograms of weight

now i'm using my koozer hubs, pillar spokes and alexrims xdlite on light to medium trails


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

I just ordered a rear, but I can't find measurement specs anywhere for calculating spoke lengths, what did you guys use for measurements?


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

gotdurt said:


> I just ordered a rear, but I can't find measurement specs anywhere for calculating spoke lengths, what did you guys use for measurements?


I measured my own, I'll check what I wrote down when I get home. I believe these measurements from pg 4 agreed with mine:



adamantane said:


> hey guys...i recently puchased a koozer rear hub...i just built it up this weekend, i like the sound, it's not too bad... it will probably be equivalent to an azonic outlaw hub....anyway, i laced it up to a what i think was a supra d rim...the measurements i used in the prowheel builder were ERD 540; axle 135; flng 57; left lck to flng 35; right lck to flng 50; 32H; 3X....i used 260 mm for drive side and 262 for brake side


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

gotdurt said:


> I just ordered a rear, but I can't find measurement specs anywhere for calculating spoke lengths, what did you guys use for measurements?


Really, really easy to measure your hubs on your own:

https://leonard.io/edd/howtomeasure

Just like ERD, measure it yourself and then you know its right! (But hub measurements don't need to be near as exact as ERD measurement.)


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

06HokieMTB said:


> Really, really easy to measure your hubs on your own:
> 
> https://leonard.io/edd/howtomeasure
> 
> Just like ERD, measure it yourself and then you know its right! (But hub measurements don't need to be near as exact as ERD measurement.)


Not when I won't have the hub for at least a couple of weeks... Yes, it is not difficult to measure hubs (assuming you have calipers and depending on the calculation method used), but I'd like to determine if the spokes I have will work, otherwise I'll need to order spokes to have them on hand when the hub arrives. I already know the rim ERD spec.

Also, for those looking for comparative figures, I got these from a local (using the measuring from center to the flange method):

135mm Rear 
wR 34.5 mm
wL 18.5 mm
OLD 135 mm
dL 55 mm
dR 55 mm

My spokes fall within the average of the 2, so I should be good.


----------



## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

I was measuring my newly arrived koozer hubs this is what I got.

Rear 135mm qr:
OLD: 135
FD: 57
Left to flange: 33
Right to flange: 48

front 100 15mm
OLD: 100mm
FD: 57
Left to flange: 29
Right to flange: 14

32 spokes laced 3x with a arch ex with erd of 606mm results in
Front R: 295.5 L:294
Rear R: 293.9 L295.3

I am about to order 32 294 and 32 296 spokes (plus a couple of spares). Does that seem right or would I get away with all 294? Is it weird that the front hub has a greater spoke length difference than the rear or is that normal? 

Anybody else get similar dimensions for their hubs?

Cheers 
Abel


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Just thought I'd post up here. I'm wanting the 142 x 12 size rear hub and it looks like this hub is the only one that still has the old 3 pawl design. Contacted the seller and he stated they have a 6 pawl version coming out "soon". He said it would most likely be before summer. Anxious to get my hands on it to lace to a new Stans Flow rim. Anyone else waiting on the 142 x 12 rear hub with the 6 pawls?


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Just got word that the 142 x 12 rear hub in the 6 pawl design should be released at the end of April. How are those who have been riding these hubs for a while liking them? Any issues? Working good?


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## staind (Sep 17, 2004)

damn, i just bought a 142x12 rear with 3 pawls. i think i should return it and get the 6-pawl version.

will it come out next week?


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## Determinants (Apr 22, 2015)

If you buy the koozer hub set in ebay, how many days untill it will arrive?


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Poopshute said:


> Just got word that the 142 x 12 rear hub in the 6 pawl design should be released at the end of April. How are those who have been riding these hubs for a while liking them? Any issues? Working good?


No issues with mine, only have six or so rides on them so far though. Love the fast engagement. They are pretty noisy (which I have no problem with).



Determinants said:


> If you buy the koozer hub set in ebay, how many days untill it will arrive?


I think mine took two or three weeks, but it is totally going to depend on where you live.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

staind said:


> damn, i just bought a 142x12 rear with 3 pawls. i think i should return it and get the 6-pawl version.
> 
> will it come out next week?


Just got word that the red and black 142 x 12 are available today. I'm waiting on the gold. Bummer.


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## Determinants (Apr 22, 2015)

Are koozer hubs loud? I love loud hubs, it warns people that I am gonna pass and minimizes accidents

Where can I buy koozer hubs here in Philippines?


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

Determinants said:


> If you buy the koozer hub set in ebay, how many days untill it will arrive?


Mine took about 3 weeks.



Determinants said:


> Are koozer hubs loud? I love loud hubs, it warns people that I am gonna pass and minimizes accidents


Not as loud as Chris Kings, etc., but I wouldn't say they are quiet either.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

abelfonseca said:


> I was measuring my newly arrived koozer hubs this is what I got.
> 
> Rear 135mm qr:
> OLD: 135
> ...





gotdurt said:


> 135mm Rear
> wR 34.5 mm
> wL 18.5 mm
> OLD 135 mm
> ...


either one of you is smoking crack or both of you.

Imo holes are measured center to center and flanges are measured at the center of the actual flange. Tools for measing this is mitutoyo vernier calipers for example.


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

car bone said:


> either one of you is smoking crack or both of you.
> 
> Imo holes are measured center to center and flanges are measured at the center of the actual flange. Tools for measing this is mitutoyo vernier calipers for example.


You might want to read the whole post before telling someone they are smoking crack.

Funny though, despite the different measuring methods used and the slightly varying measurements, everyone seems to have their wheels laced-up just fine.


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## Determinants (Apr 22, 2015)

Not as loud as Chris Kings, etc., but I wouldn't say they are quiet either.[/QUOTE]

Which is louder, origin 8 hubs or koozer ha04n 6 pawl 72POE hubs?


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Finished building a set for a friend, red koozer hubs, sapim race, stans arch. Here are some pics and hub sound video.

































https://www.facebook.com/uberwheels/videos/vb.1597978483779188/1604481806462189/?type=3&theater

Cheers


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## staind (Sep 17, 2004)

Poopshute said:


> Just got word that the red and black 142 x 12 are available today. I'm waiting on the gold. Bummer.


thanks. ordered the black 6-pawl version.


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## Determinants (Apr 22, 2015)

cerebroside said:


> Pile of parts...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## tj90 (Oct 2, 2006)

cerebroside said:


> Pile of parts...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice build. I was looking at this same rim as well. I rode WTB rims 15 (?)years ago and it had that I-beam construction. I see that the design is still alive and well. I felt at the time that it made a stout rim.

I am on the fence between the koozers and Hopes. The noise of the freehub and made in england is a big draw. THe koozers are 72 POE vs 40 with the hopes.

I was also thinking - - why not pair this hub with some carbon hoops? The china carbon is 2x the price of the name brand alloy rims. I am surprised that there are so little options with rims. It seems that its china carbon, WTB, Stans or DT. Even less option for wider rims if you stick with alloy.

I might just say screw it and just buy some Azonic Outlaws. Wide rims, solid build and stout hubs. I bet the azonic hubs are similar noise to the koozers but I cant say that for certain... THe $320 price for a wheelset is very attractive.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

tj90 said:


> Very nice build. I was looking at this same rim as well. I rode WTB rims 15 (?)years ago and it had that I-beam construction. I see that the design is still alive and well. I felt at the time that it made a stout rim.
> 
> I am on the fence between the koozers and Hopes. The noise of the freehub and made in england is a big draw. THe koozers are 72 POE vs 40 with the hopes.
> 
> ...


I ended up finding a great deal on a Stans Flow ZTR rim. That's what I'll be pairing up with one of these hubs once they release the gold 72 142x12. I believe my total wheel build will be around $185 after all is said and done (that's with DT Swiss comp spokes). That's a heck of a deal for a stout 142x12 wheel!


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Do you know for sure they are coming out with a 12x142???


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

gregnash said:


> Do you know for sure they are coming out with a 12x142???
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yes. I've been in an e-mail conversation with a representative from the company. The black and red are already 72 POE/6 pawl in the 12x142 size as of about a week ago. Other colors are to be released soon. But from the eBay seller revmega


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Determinants said:


> ...where can I buy WTB freq i25?





tj90 said:


> ...
> I was also thinking - - why not pair this hub with some carbon hoops? The china carbon is 2x the price of the name brand alloy rims. I am surprised that there are so little options with rims. It seems that its china carbon, WTB, Stans or DT. Even less option for wider rims if you stick with alloy.
> 
> I might just say screw it and just buy some Azonic Outlaws. Wide rims, solid build and stout hubs. I bet the azonic hubs are similar noise to the koozers but I cant say that for certain... THe $320 price for a wheelset is very attractive.


I got the i25s from Chain Reaction at $67 CAD each, free shipping. All up the wheel build was ~$350 CAD. Looks like the rims are up to $81 now, but going carbon would still be a big step up in price.


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## Determinants (Apr 22, 2015)

I need information about shops here in Philippines who sell koozer hubs.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

Determinants said:


> I need information about shops here in Philippines who sell koozer hubs.


kamusta?

from Philippines, pasig to be exact bought my koozer hubs from bikehub in Pampanga near san Fernando SM, P3.5k pair

you can also check out quiapo shops they are selling koozer hubs for like 4.5k to 5k, been using koozer for almost 9 months now and no issues at first it was only for road use, then I decided to use it on light trails so far no issues at all

for road use I now use hdw3 circus monkey hubs, you can check out bikehub's page in FB

search for my youtube video koozer vs hdw3


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## staind (Sep 17, 2004)

got my black 142x12 72 POE hubs. can't wait to have it installed.

the 3-pawl version had pretty good engagement (albeit too noisy) so this should be awesome-rrr (and quieter). ;D


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

staind said:


> ...the 3-pawl version had pretty good engagement (albeit too noisy) .... ;D


Really!!?? That is not something bad for some. Can you post a sound clip or a video?

Cheers
Abel


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## Determinants (Apr 22, 2015)

Forcemajeure said:


> from Philippines, pasig to be exact bought my koozer hubs from bikehub in Pampanga near san Fernando SM, P3.5k pair
> 
> you can also check out quiapo shops they are selling koozer hubs for like 4.5k to 5k, been using koozer for almost 9 months now and no issues at first it was only for road use, then I decided to use it on light trails so far no issues at all
> 
> Do you know the facebook page of the bike shops in quiapo? Or contact? I've been contacting bike hub, and no koozer available for now.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

logon to pinoymtbiker.org to check out all contact # of bike shops in quiapo


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

cerebroside said:


> Finally got mine. I have to say the packaging was way better than most stuff I buy from China. Custom printed box with folded cardboard inserts for the hubs to fit into, nice.
> 
> Hubs look great considering the price. Weights are more or less spot on claimed. Measured F 201 g / R 304 g.
> The fronts are not convertible QR to 15mm, but I'm OK with buying another hub when I change forks.


Are those weights with the QR skewer or without the skewer? Thanks


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

pwu_1 said:


> Are those weights with the QR skewer or without the skewer? Thanks


Without skewer. Same for the wheelset weight.


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

Has anyone verified the ability to convert the rear hub between QR and 12x142?


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

Purchased a 12x142mm 72pt hubset a few weeks back. Fast shipping (from China) and good packaging. Quality looks to be okay, very satisfied for $100 shipped!


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

DirtMerchantBicycles said:


> Purchased a 12x142mm 72pt hubset a few weeks back. Fast shipping (from China) and good packaging. Quality looks to be okay, very satisfied for $100 shipped!
> 
> HOWEVER, the cassette body WILL NOT FIT an E13 Extended Range cog (Shimano 42T) and a 11-36 XT cassette. With either the 15t or 17t cog removed, the 11t cog has nothing to bite on nor will the lock ring catch any threads.


Doesn't adding this extra ring make your drive train an 11 speed in the rear? I think these hubs are capped at 10 speed, right?


----------



## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

DirtMerchantBicycles said:


> Purchased a 12x142mm 72pt hubset a few weeks back. Fast shipping (from China) and good packaging. Quality looks to be okay, very satisfied for $100 shipped!
> 
> HOWEVER, the cassette body WILL NOT FIT an E13 Extended Range cog (Shimano 42T) and a 11-36 XT cassette. With either the 15t or 17t cog removed, the 11t cog has nothing to bite on nor will the lock ring catch any threads.


Shouldn't there be no change in cassette width...? Did you remove the spacer? Haven't personally tried an extended range cassette though.



Poopshute said:


> Doesn't adding this extra ring make your drive train an 11 speed in the rear? I think these hubs are capped at 10 speed, right?


You take out a cog from the middle of the 10 speed cassette, and add a larger cog after the 36.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

TedS123 said:


> Has anyone verified the ability to convert the rear hub between QR and 12x142?


You cannot convert the rear hub between QR and 12x142. They are manufactured to meet each spec. separately.

With that being said, the person I've been talking to who is tied to the company stated that they are relocating their factory and production may halt for a few months. I was waiting out the Gold version of the rear 12x142 but opted to pick up a Red one instead so I wouldn't miss out on this hub. Maybe some day when they get production going again and release a gold version I'll buy another one. Until then, it'll be red.


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## TedS123 (Dec 2, 2009)

Poopshute said:


> You cannot convert the rear hub between QR and 12x142. They are manufactured to meet each spec. separately.
> 
> With that being said, the person I've been talking to who is tied to the company stated that they are relocating their factory and production may halt for a few months. I was waiting out the Gold version of the rear 12x142 but opted to pick up a Red one instead so I wouldn't miss out on this hub. Maybe some day when they get production going again and release a gold version I'll buy another one. Until then, it'll be red.


Thanks for answering my question!

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

cerebroside said:


> Shouldn't there be no change in cassette width...? Did you remove the spacer? Haven't personally tried an extended range cassette though.


One would think. Spacing is tight with the "stock" XT cassette, only a couple MM of overlap on the 11t cog. I might try taking down 2mm or so from the backside of the EX cog...or wait for the 11-42 Praxis 10sp cassette.

I assume you are talking about the shim that is often placed behind the cassette?


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

DirtMerchantBicycles said:


> ...I assume you are talking about the shim that is often placed behind the cassette?


Talking about the spacer between the 15 and the 17 (the black thing):


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

For those that are considering ordering, just a note on shipping from the different sellers on ebay: I ordered a rear a couple of months ago from "Revmega" and it took a few weeks to arrive. Got a wild hair to go ahead and get a front hub, but this time I tried "Sporttide", which arrived in 8 days.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

gotdurt said:


> For those that are considering ordering, just a note on shipping from the different sellers on ebay: I ordered a rear a couple of months ago from "Revmega" and it took a few weeks to arrive. Got a wild hair to go ahead and get a front hub, but this time I tried "Sporttide", which arrived in 8 days.


I'm not affiliated with these hubs or the sellers but I can tell you that revmega is directly tied to the manufacturer. If you contact the revmega seller or try contacting the manufacturing company directly (reeborn), you'll get a response from the same person. He goes by "Matt".

Also, has anyone completely disassembled this hub? Is it possible to change out the bearings if/when they go bad?


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

Yep, I retract my statement regarding EX Cog compatibility. :blush: Too many cassettes on the workbench after my frustration. No issues.

Yes, the bearings can be replaced. The hubs come with cheap "NGK" bearings but no issues after 50 miles.


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

I bought one Koozer HA04N 6 palws from revmega. Great service from him. He even ship via express for free. I have it lace up on Flow EX 29er with DT Swiss Competition fork. Now its on my lovely Pyga OneTen29 as shown below.










dBuilt quality of the hub is pretty good. Nothing to complaint at this price. Rode it twice so far. The sound is very nice. Is not too loud but its there. The sound is very refine unlike Hope which is very loud click. This Koozer sounds more like DT Swiss. Engagement is super quick. Hope the reliabilty is there in the long run


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

DirtMerchantBicycles said:


> Yep, I retract my statement regarding EX Cog compatibility. :blush: Too many cassettes on the workbench after my frustration. No issues.
> 
> Yes, the bearings can be replaced. The hubs come with cheap "NGK" bearings but no issues after 50 miles.


Is it just two sealed bearings on each side (rear hub)? Are instructions provided on how to take apart the hub and replace the bearings? Is there any documentation that states what size the bearings are? I'm planning on swapping the bearings out after the first year of riding with the stock ones.

Thanks in advance. My hub comes in tomorrow. Pretty stoked as I'm upgrading from a low level Shimano deore hub. I'll never willingly buy a loose bearing/cone nut hub again. What a pain in the butt is to get those things to tight up just perfectly so that there is no play and so it doesn't bind and pit the crap out of the bearing race. /rant.


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

Poopshute said:


> Is it just two sealed bearings on each side (rear hub)? Are instructions provided on how to take apart the hub and replace the bearings? Is there any documentation that states what size the bearings are? I'm planning on swapping the bearings out after the first year of riding with the stock ones.
> 
> Thanks in advance. My hub comes in tomorrow. Pretty stoked as I'm upgrading from a low level Shimano deore hub. I'll never willingly buy a loose bearing/cone nut hub again. What a pain in the butt is to get those things to tight up just perfectly so that there is no play and so it doesn't bind and pit the crap out of the bearing race. /rant.


The bearing is common bearing 6902. S6902 2RS if its 2 rubber seal.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

lightning69 said:


> The bearing is common bearing 6902. S6902 2RS if its 2 rubber seal.


Thanks! Anyone know if they are easy to remove/pull?


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

Poopshute said:


> Thanks! Anyone know if they are easy to remove/pull?


Should be the same as this video


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Just received my 142x12 version. It's off to the shop to get laced up to a Stans Flow ZTR rim with DT Swiss Comp spokes (silver). I'll post up the final product and follow up with ride results. It's quite interesting going from my shimano hub with lots of play between clicks to this hub where there is virtually no play!










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

Poopshute said:


> Just received my 142x12 version. It's off to the shop to get laced up to a Stans Flow ZTR rim with DT Swiss Comp spokes (silver). I'll post up the final product and follow up with ride results. It's quite interesting going from my shimano hub with lots of play between clicks to this hub where there is virtually no play!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am sure you will love it.


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

Has anyone confirmed whether or not the QR front hub can be converted to 15mm thru-axle?

I sent an email to Reborn, but haven't heard back yet.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

gotdurt said:


> Has anyone confirmed whether or not the QR front hub can be converted to 15mm thru-axle?
> 
> I sent an email to Reborn, but haven't heard back yet.


It is not convertible.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

cerebroside said:


> It is not convertible.


When you say it's not convertible, do you mean Koozer don't do a kit? I've converted plenty of front hubs to 15mm thru but it might need different bearings and/or custom made end caps. What size bearings does the front hub take and what is their spacing?


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

cerebroside said:


> It is not convertible.


Good news, got an email from Matt:

_ At this time the qr hub can't convert to thru-axle hub, but we are working on it, it will convert in the future._



TigWorld said:


> When you say it's not convertible, do you mean Koozer don't do a kit? I've converted plenty of front hubs to 15mm thru but it might need different bearings and/or custom made end caps. What size bearings does the front hub take and what is their spacing?


Correct, at least for now... but I just got a deal on a 15mm thru-fork, so I'd prefer not wait on it. I've thought about doing my own conversion as well, maybe using collars similar to the ones on my old Bullseye BMX hubs and any necessary spacers... not sure yet though how to research what parts to get and how to get them. What is your method?

I haven't measured the bearings or spacing just yet. Someone above mentioned that they are 6902's, but I suspect that is for the thru-axle model because 6902 bearings have a 15mm ID. However, finding a bearing with the desired dimensions shouldn't be difficult; I've done it for other custom applications in the past.
*
Edit: * Just pulled the QR hub apart, and it they are indeed 6902 2RS bearings, so that's a good start as they have a 15mm ID. I'm tempted to buy a Koozer thru hub to see what exactly the difference is... my guess it that it is only a matter of spacing.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Ok, got my 142x12 6pawl hub all laced up by a local shop. Pics below. I ended up going with DT Swiss Comp spokes laced to a Stans ZTR Flow. A couple things...

The 142x12 hub DOES NOT have threaded end caps. They simply slide on with o-rings over the internal axle. The end caps are stepped so that they sit flush with the axle. I guess the caps don't have to be threaded as the straight through axle (Maxle) tightens everything up once it's installed on the bike. This also does make it quite easy to service the hub as I don't have to unthread anything. Other than that, the hub looks nice and sounds pretty nifty. I'll need to get it on the trails a few time before giving it my seal of approval. I can say this for sure, with 72 POE, there's definitely more resistance when coasting. Hopefully that won't be too noticeable when I'm actually riding. Enough for the text... here are the pics..




























*Disc and 10 speed Shimano XT cassette installed*









*Rubber mounted tubeless... all ready to go!*


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Wow, this hub is pretty sweet. After one ride, the pawls have "loosened" up and there is not as much resistance. The bearings in the hub are very smooth and the overall design makes my old shimano deore hub feel like it was made out of molasses. I can free spin the wheel without it stopping on its own WAY longer than my old hub. I'll keep reporting back regarding this hub but so far I'm lovin' it!!!


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

gotdurt said:


> ...What is your method?


I've done the 15mm conversion a number of ways depending on the bearing sizes and bearing spacing.

My preferred approach is to use a Tune or American Classic 15 thru axle. These are 17mm in diameter, so you need new bearings with a 17mm ID. 6902's are 15 x 28 x 7mm. I have replaced those with 17287 bearings. Additional spacers or mods to the bearing seats may be required to fine tune things. Not a problem if you have a lathe or a friendly local machine shop.

The other approach is to machine up some custom end caps or use Novatec 15mm end caps (perhaps with some modification). I don't like using end caps as much because often with DIY 15mm conversions there is no way to keep the end caps in place - they just fall out when you remove the wheel. Makes wheel changes (fixing flats) a bit of a pain.


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

TigWorld said:


> My preferred approach is to use a Tune or American Classic 15 thru axle. These are 17mm in diameter, so you need new bearings with a 17mm ID. 6902's are 15 x 28 x 7mm. I have replaced those with 17287 bearings.


That's an interesting approach, I'd agree the way to go for a permanent solution. For those interested, they are $30 on Amazon.



TigWorld said:


> Additional spacers or mods to the bearing seats may be required to fine tune things. Not a problem if you have a lathe or a friendly local machine shop.


There's my issue; I'd rather not change the hub body, but would rather preserve it in order to keep everything reversible. I'm looking for a temporary fix until the proper conversion comes out, plus I have other bikes that will retain QRs and like to have the ability to swap wheels between them, so I'd like to keep the option to easily convert back to QR.



TigWorld said:


> The other approach is to machine up some custom end caps or use Novatec 15mm end caps (perhaps with some modification). I don't like using end caps as much because often with DIY 15mm conversions there is no way to keep the end caps in place - they just fall out when you remove the wheel. Makes wheel changes (fixing flats) a bit of a pain.


That's the direction I'm leaning. Stan's also use the 6902 bearing, with a similar axle/cap setup:Stan's axle caps 
Since the bearings are the same, I'd bet money ($15 to be exact) that the bore at the O-ring is the same or similar. Then it's a matter of adjusting the width.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

I've used the Stans caps too. If you take a look on this page, I've got all of the dimensions for the Stans 15mm caps so you can see if it will work before you buy.


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

TigWorld said:


> I've used the Stans caps too. If you take a look on this page, I've got all of the dimensions for the Stans 15mm caps so you can see if it will work before you buy.


Excellent, thanks!


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

shiggy said:


> Just that. Thick oil, such as Phil's Tenacious Oil or similar (think gear oil). Needs to be viscous enough to not run out of the hub.
> 
> Using grease to quiet a hub is little better than oiling your brake pads to stop squealing.


Sorry to bring this back up but would Slick Honey be a suitable choice to lube up the pawls? I'm mainly looking to reduce drag a bit. Don't care about the sound. Actually like them loud.


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

TigWorld said:


> I've used the Stans caps too. If you take a look on this page, I've got all of the dimensions for the Stans 15mm caps so you can see if it will work before you buy.


Finally measured a cap, looks like we have a match... close enough anyway. The Stan's caps are 1mm wider each, but it's easier to remove material than add. I'm going to go ahead and order a set.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Poopshute said:


> Sorry to bring this back up but would Slick Honey be a suitable choice to lube up the pawls? I'm mainly looking to reduce drag a bit. Don't care about the sound. Actually like them loud.


I was recommended to use mineral oil to lube the pawls and teeth. I'm assuming this is fine as this is what is used on mavic hubs. I do notice a decrease in sound but an increase in drag a bit. Maybe another ride will free up the pawls a bit more. Thoughts anyone?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

Success! Koozer 9mm QR fr hub converted to 15mm thru-axle via Stan's end caps...









All that was needed was a few seconds each on the flat side of the grinder (maybe .5mm each), and they slipped right into the fork. The OD of the o-ring is *slightly* small so they will come out of the bore under their own weight dry, but a touch of grease holds them well. A slightly thicker o-ring could also do the trick, if it isn't too much. Either way, they'll do the job until Koozer comes out with the kit.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Nice. Looking at building a second set of rim this year and seriously contemplating getting theses. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

been using koozer hubs 6 pawls for 9 months and still lovin it.. my circus monkey hdw3 is a bit lighter but not as loud as my koozer hubs


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Forcemajeure said:


> been using koozer hubs 6 pawls for 9 months and still lovin it.. my circus monkey hdw3 is a bit lighter but not as loud as my koozer hubs


Thanks for the mini-review. Nice to see these hubs surviving close to a year down the road. Have you performed any maintenance on them?

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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

I've put about close to 50 hard miles on these hubs (all trail riding). Still holding up good. I wiped out the grease that came in the hubs (wasn't much) and laid down some mineral oil. I did this only based on what I have read here and elsewhere... mineral oil is better than grease for hub pawls and whatnot. Anyways, the mineral oil quieted the hub down quite a bit for the first 15 miles or so. After that, it's loud again (fine by me). Appears to be breaking in. Great hub... love them! Oh, I'm running the 142x12 6 pawl version. Works fantastic and is a breeze to work on. Because of the pressed caps, I can remove my cassette w/out having to remove it from the free hub body. This gives me immediate access to the pawls and teeth. Sweet!


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

Poopshute said:


> Thanks for the mini-review. Nice to see these hubs surviving close to a year down the road. Have you performed any maintenance on them?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I normally check, and regrease the rear hubs like every 3 months, or depends on the dirt condition,

i never greased the front hub, used synthetic lithium grease on the rear hub, i only use them on light trails.. circus monkey hdw3 on my other bike for road use only


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

What other grease/lube do you guys recommend? I know that Phil Wood has some stuff that people like but just getting an idea as I am very much contemplating building these up for my bike. I need to pull my freehub and see what the stock grease is like in there, mine are random Taiwanese brand that a family friend sells (he is my wheelbuilder).


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

I'd go with dumondetech freehub oil. Currently using thier liquid grease in these hubs


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Another thing that is easy to miss is that when you put the freehub back in after lubing pawls , the outer freehub seal folds in on itself in places. This increases friction by a lot. I had to go around it with a dental pick for it to sit right on both of my hubs . Really happy with these hubs so far, I have two rears, both 72poe, not to many miles on them yet though


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!
I pounded the heck out of these hubs last week in NM, at Angel Fire bike park and and South boundary trail 164, among others; their first DH runs with extended coasting times. All seems to be well; I'll pull the freehub apart soon to check lubrication and a visual check to see how things held up.

Here's the final descent from SBT 164 (Pts 3 and 4 are my fav's); I didn't add music as usual because the hub makes the music :thumbsup: (view 1080p)


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Nice... looks like people are getting good work in with these hubs. I as well have been riding them at least 3 times a week on Colorado trails. Crashed twice and they're still holding up. 

Also wanted everyone to know that as of yesterday, the seller revmega on ebay now has ALL colored hubs available ALL in the 6 pawl design (rear hub). Go get 'em!


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

Can anyone confirm bearing size for the 142x12 6 pawl version? Read it was 6902, if so is this size for all 4 bearings?Thx


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

funnyjr said:


> Can anyone confirm bearing size for the 142x12 6 pawl version? Read it was 6902, if so is this size for all 4 bearings?Thx


Yes. It's 6902 2RS. 2 for the front hub and 4 for the rear hub.


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

lightning69 said:


> Yes. It's 6902 2RS. 2 for the front hub and 4 for the rear hub.


Thx appreciate it .


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

Here is a vid I shot on Sunday.


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

Roughly 100miles and there is visible wear on one side. Still stoked on them, I'll be buying another set soon.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

DirtMerchantBicycles said:


> Roughly 100miles and there is visible wear on one side. Still stoked on them, I'll be buying another set soon.
> View attachment 999419


Wear like this is common, right? Meaning, other decent quality name-brand hubs would most likely have the same wear and tear?

Also, kinda like the fact that my 142x12 versions have caps so I never have to remove my cassette to access the panels.


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## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

gregnash said:


> What other grease/lube do you guys recommend? I know that Phil Wood has some stuff that people like but just getting an idea as I am very much contemplating building these up for my bike. I need to pull my freehub and see what the stock grease is like in there, mine are random Taiwanese brand that a family friend sells (he is my wheelbuilder).


I use Phill waterproof grease alot and did put a light coat on the pawls of a Specialized hub. I know there's some discussion on here about grease vs oil in the hubs but IMO Phil fits the bill, especially if you live in a place where it's wet.My philosophy is to use grease in any environment where there's high-speed metal-to-metal contact.


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## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

Poopshute said:


> Wear like this is common, right? Meaning, other decent quality name-brand hubs would most likely have the same wear and tear?
> 
> Also, kinda like the fact that my 142x12 versions have caps so I never have to remove my cassette to access the panels.


Yes, with an inexpensive cassette where each sprocket separates from the other when removed. The better option is to choose something like an XT-level cassette where the sprockets ride on aluminum carrier and the carrier slides onto the freehub. This distributes the load better across the freehub and also makes cassette removal much easier. If you had a cheap hub like a Deore where the freehub was steel then this wouldn't be an issue. I'm assuming the freehub body on the Koozers is AL and that's why you're getting the dents.


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## cebi (Jul 4, 2015)

Love this hub, roughly riding about 500KM, still smooth.


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

MTBeing said:


> Yes, with an inexpensive cassette where each sprocket separates from the other when removed. The better option is to choose something like an XT-level cassette where the sprockets ride on aluminum carrier and the carrier slides onto the freehub. This distributes the load better across the freehub and also makes cassette removal much easier. If you had a cheap hub like a Deore where the freehub was steel then this wouldn't be an issue. I'm assuming the freehub body on the Koozers is AL and that's why you're getting the dents.


The photo is meant to show the wear around the pawls, not the gauging on the HG splines.

So far the wear is just on the hard ano. What is more concerning is that it is only on one side of the freehub. I've used Slick Honey since day one. Again, I'm not too concerned about it, just trying to add some info regarding the hub's quality. I have not seen similar wear on a Hadley or CK.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

The marks between the pawls are from the freehub body getting pulled into the drive ring because of axle flex. It's common to most of the cheap hubs that have aluminum axles.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

Has anyone so far built these up with Nextie carbon hoops? Seems like the better choice for the "cheap carbon build" wheel. Just wondering what the total price was for anyone who went this route?

Thanks.


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

92gli said:


> The marks between the pawls are from the freehub body getting pulled into the drive ring because of axle flex. It's common to most of the cheap hubs that have aluminum axles.


I think combination of this and bearings that cannot handle the load. My Stans 3.30 hub same thing all the red anno is gone around pawls. It was my drive side wheel bearing that crapped out. Always debates about whether it's caused by axle flex vs bad bearings.

One can change to higher quality bearing (skf) as I did with my Stans hub to see if makes a difference- time will tell. No options to change to stiffer axle though.


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## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

DirtMerchantBicycles said:


> The photo is meant to show the wear around the pawls, not the gauging on the HG splines.
> 
> So far the wear is just on the hard ano. What is more concerning is that it is only on one side of the freehub. I've used Slick Honey since day one. Again, I'm not too concerned about it, just trying to add some info regarding the hub's quality. I have not seen similar wear on a Hadley or CK.


My bad.


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## Cxeex (Jul 10, 2015)

Anyone built a 650b on these hubs? Can you share your spokes length? Im planning to build a 650b wheelsets out of this hub laced with ztr crest rims either dt swiss revo/pillar spokes. Thanks in advance!


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

This hub is awesome. Built up to set of Stans Arch EX rims. Had about 5 rides now and the high engagement is very noticeable especially on slow steep techy climbs (instant power) compared to my old 3 pawl.Time will tell if it holds up but so far so good. 


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## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

gregnash said:


> What other grease/lube do you guys recommend? I know that Phil Wood has some stuff that people like but just getting an idea as I am very much contemplating building these up for my bike. I need to pull my freehub and see what the stock grease is like in there, mine are random Taiwanese brand that a family friend sells (he is my wheelbuilder).


You also can get a tub of BellRay waterproof grease on ebay for about $12-13. A bike guy I know has used it for years and one can will last you about that.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

92gli said:


> The marks between the pawls are from the freehub body getting pulled into the drive ring because of axle flex. It's common to most of the cheap hubs that have aluminum axles.


^^^ This. Pretty much all of these hubs that have a 15mm diameter alu axle are not up to the job. Lifespan depends on how evenly the pawls engage the ring gear. When they engage on an angle because the axle is flexing, they start to wear unevenly. The pawls will then fail or the freehub will distort or crack around the pawls.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

MTBeing said:


> You also can get a tub of BellRay waterproof grease on ebay for about $12-13. A bike guy I know has used it for years and one can will last you about that.


Thanks found a tub on eBay for $9.54 with free shipping. Will any waterproof bearing grease work or is bearing grease too thick?

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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

anyone knows how to remove the inner bearings on the rear hub and front hub?

i was able to remove only 2 bearings on the freehub body


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

now this is the bearing that I'm trying to remove


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Forcemajeure said:


> now this is the bearing that I'm trying to remove
> 
> View attachment 1004827


So, if I'm correct, the axle has a flange in the middle. You would use a rubber mallet to gently tap on the axle and one side bearing should pop out. Repeat for the other side. The video links below were sent to me by "Matt" that works for Reborn (company that makes these hubs).


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

thanks poopshute.. will check out the links, do i really need to remove the spokes and rims before i can remove the inner bearings?


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Forcemajeure said:


> thanks poopshute.. will check out the links, do i really need to remove the spokes and rims before i can remove the inner bearings?


Lol... nope! You can do this w/out completely blowing up your wheel. The basic idea is to make sure the Axle is free and has room to "slide out" with the bearing. A vice that's not compressed all the way is a good tool for the job. Use different size sockets from a socket wrench set and the same rubber mallet to press new bearings into place.

Again, I'm not completely sure this is how the bearings come out but from first glance of my hub, it appears to be the only way. There's nothing threaded on the axle so it has to simply be held in by the pressed bearings.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

will try removing the inner bearings if ever rain started pouring down, while it is not raining, i'll go out and use the other bike... thanks for the quick reply.. i really appreciate it..


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

now this link that you gave me seems to be the best match for the koozer hubs 6 pawls


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

this link also looks like a good guide


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

The second one you posted is a slightly different design where the entire axle comes out with the freehub. The first link is more inline with the design of our hubs.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Would you mind providing a quick how-to on how you removed the bearings from the freehub body? Also, when you get the bearings out of the hub, can you let us all know how it went? 

Planning on upgrading my bearings next season.


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## leon78 (Jul 13, 2015)

hi all

just found out about this hubs, and I will like to know if anyone has use them for Freeride or Downhill?

also, how are holding up the ones around? any problems with them?

thanks a lot


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

leon78 said:


> hi all
> 
> just found out about this hubs, and I will like to know if anyone has use them for Freeride or Downhill?
> 
> ...


There's quite a few of using these hubs and no one has posted any issues so far. I ride aggressive XC that leans very much in the AM category. Lots of climbing and I tend to hit/jump over obstacles instead of ride around them on my 26er. Had a bee minor crashes as well. Both the hub and the new wheel build (I'm only rocking the rear) are holding up great.

I don't know what makes a hub downhill compliant but I can tell you these hubs come in QR and 15mm (front)/142x12 (rear) through axles designs. The axle is also aluminum.

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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

ayt here are some pics, took me several hours to complete the task as i wanna take my time and be careful with the bearings and hubs.. will test ride the bike next time

i forgot to take a picture of the retainer ring, like a washer on the axle ratchet side, you have you use thin metal to pry it out

1. remove the end caps by using 2 pcs 5mm allen key ( i think it was 5mm )
2. pull out the free hub body by doing counter clockwise motion
3, remove the bearings on the freehub body, just, toggle the spacer and gently tap the bearing and it will fall off
4. remove the retainer or washer like metal ring on the axle you can check both sides to be sure, but i removed the one on the ratchet side
5. use rubber mallet gently tap the axle, i chose to hit the rotor side first, once out use the axle to remove the 4th bearing

now i used different kinds of sockets from my socket wrench set, and a threaded rod to act as a press tool, cost me $1 USD

havn't tried riding my bike, since i also removed BB, cranks, pulley, rotors, rollers, general check up and clean up after a grueling ride on the mountain, trails, mud, heavy rain..


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

the first picture with the red circle like line, that was the retainer that you need to remove, really hard to notice the ring


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

So you will have to give us a ride report after you have ridden with the new bearings. Wondering if it would be worth it to just replace the bearings right off with something like SKF or NAICHI bearings (they really don't cost all the much on eBay).


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Thanks for the pics and write-up. I have a few questions that hopefully you can clarify:

1.). When you say "toggle spacer" and gently tap the freehub body, are you saying to just remove the loose spacer ring and then tap the freehub body itself on a hard surface to let the bearings fall out? Are they not pressed in?

2.). You mention a retainer ring on the axle. Will the ring dislodge itself when you use a mallet against the axle to force the bearings out? Meaning, is there really a need to remove this ring prior to tapping the axle with a mallet?

Thanks again for posting your tear down. This is going to help a lot of people here!


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

gregnash said:


> So you will have to give us a ride report after you have ridden with the new bearings. Wondering if it would be worth it to just replace the bearings right off with something like SKF or NAICHI bearings (they really don't cost all the much on eBay).


yup will definitely give a report or update after my test ride, but all i can say is that the axle moves smoothly when i tried spinning it by hand, unlike before i can really feel that the bearings were like rough and somewhat like grinding..


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

Poopshute said:


> Thanks for the pics and write-up. I have a few questions that hopefully you can clarify:
> 
> 1.). When you say "toggle spacer" and gently tap the freehub body, are you saying to just remove the loose spacer ring and then tap the freehub body itself on a hard surface to let the bearings fall out? Are they not pressed in?
> 
> ...


step # 3 is to toggle the spacer or move the spacer so you can see the inner ring of the bearing, then gently tap the bearing, i used long allen key to pry it out, i don't intend to use the old bearings to for me it is okay to tap on the inner ring of the bearing

retainer / ring - i think you will have a hard time if you use axle to force the bearings out without removing the retainer or ring

i just wish that i can record or video shoot the process, but i don't have a digital cam only a xiaomi phone, and got no one to help me out with the video shoot

the next time i hit the trails, will definitely open up the hubs and shoot a video

+++++++++++++++

now my problem is the front hub, this one i think is much harder, as i can't remove both end caps

the axle doen't have hex key slot or can't use allen keys to act as a counter for you to remove the next end cap

OR DO I JUST remove one end cap and use mallet??


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## bosbik (Aug 29, 2011)

gotdurt said:


> Success! Koozer 9mm QR fr hub converted to 15mm thru-axle via Stan's end caps...
> 
> View attachment 995473
> 
> ...


@gotdurt

did you do just a direct install with the stans endcaps onto the hub? Did you change out the axle?


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Forcemajeure said:


> step # 3 is to toggle the spacer or move the spacer so you can see the inner ring of the bearing, then gently tap the bearing, i used long allen key to pry it out, i don't intend to use the old bearings to for me it is okay to tap on the inner ring of the bearing
> 
> retainer / ring - i think you will have a hard time if you use axle to force the bearings out without removing the retainer or ring
> 
> ...


Are you sure the end camp is threaded on? My 142x12 rear has end caps that are simply held on by small washers. The QR holds everything together.

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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

Anyone have info regarding XD drivers for this hub? Any other brands (Novatec) have one that might be compatible?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Looks like the bearings are the exact same used by DT Swiss, found that you can buy a set of bearings for a DT Swiss hub rebuild for about $15. Not sure if they are better than SKF/Nachi/etc. bearings but thought that was interesting. 

Pretty sure I am going to pick one of these up this fall and build it into a wider rim (possibly a 27.5+ rim for my 29er). If I do I will plan to replace the bearings first off.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

@Forcemajeure

I couldnt find why you changed the bearings in the first place. Had they given out or did you just change to better quality bearings preemptively?

Cheers


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

Poopshute said:


> Are you sure the end camp is threaded on? My 142x12 rear has end caps that are simply held on by small washers. The QR holds everything together.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'am also not sure, but i think you are right the end caps on the front hub is not locked on the hub, only on the axle, so if i remove the other end cap, i could just gently hammer out the axle and it should be ok.. will re-check if my front bearings need some replacement

i think the only need to be regrease or check if there's any dirt or anything that gives a rough spin, i just tried spinning the axle after our trail ride and it is really hard to spin, but i appliead some grease and will check next time


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

abelfonseca said:


> @Forcemajeure
> 
> I couldnt find why you changed the bearings in the first place. Had they given out or did you just change to better quality bearings preemptively?
> 
> Cheers


i forgot my reason why i wanted to change the bearings..

a short story.. bought the koozer september 2014 been using them on roads and light trails..

now come july 26, i used them on heavy trails, dh, mud, rain and everything..

I checked my bike and hubs the next day, and found out that the axle on rear and front hubs are quite hard to spin by hand..

so went on and opened up rear hub, found some dirt, sand, water on the hub..
tried spinning the axle and it was a lil bit rough not really smooth..

i think the old bearings can still be used, but we ride on no bail out zones, can't afford to lose a bearing while riding


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## [email protected] (Aug 3, 2015)

Determinants said:


> I need information about shops here in Philippines who sell koozer hubs.


Nabili ko yung saakin s "wiley's bikeshop"(search mo nlng s FB) pwede meet-up s sta. Cruz church 4.5k lng


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Just laced a rear koozer 72 POE QR to a carbonbicycle rim. Used sapim laser and brass nipples. Total weight is 810 grams before taping.

It sounds, sweeeeeezzzztttt!! Wheel feels great. Havent had a chance for a real test ride yet.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

had a small ride with the koozer new bearings on rear hubs, ride was only at 10kms on road only

and i think it runs well, rear hub still smooth, but will try them out next time on trails


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

gregnash said:


> Looks like the bearings are the exact same used by DT Swiss, found that you can buy a set of bearings for a DT Swiss hub rebuild for about $15. Not sure if they are better than SKF/Nachi/etc. bearings but thought that was interesting.
> 
> Pretty sure I am going to pick one of these up this fall and build it into a wider rim (possibly a 27.5+ rim for my 29er). If I do I will plan to replace the bearings first off.


This is just my opinion but if you're going to replace the bearings, why not go with something nicer like an Enduro ceramic bearing? They're double the cost but will perform better. Just my $.02.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Also... normal store bought mineral oil doesn't stay put in these hubs. I had the fluid leak out after one ride. Sure, some of the oil staid on the pawls but over the counter mineral oil is too light. Trying Dumonde Tech freehub oil. Hope this stuff works as it's pricey!


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

for me I'm using top 1 synthetic lithium hi-temp grease as BB, hub, headset lubricant


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## farmdog (Jul 15, 2015)

I just purchased a set of WTB frquencu i23 29" rims and I need to get black spokes and red nipples. I'm going to use the Koozer hubs...what size nipples did you use and spokes?



abelfonseca said:


> Finished building a set for a friend, red koozer hubs, sapim race, stans arch. Here are some pics and hub sound video.
> 
> View attachment 983828
> 
> ...


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Spokes and nipples go through Dans Comp for single cut, single purchase ability. Comp style spokes are common but heavier but also easiest to build with.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

farmdog said:


> I just purchased a set of WTB frquencu i23 29" rims and I need to get black spokes and red nipples. I'm going to use the Koozer hubs...what size nipples did you use and spokes?


In my research, I found that DT Swiss comp spokes are the go-to spokes for wheel builds. They make chrome and black. Maybe get DT Swiss comp spokes and red nipples from a different source (like Dans Comp)? Sorry I don't have size information. I had a local shop build my wheel for me.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Poopshute said:


> This is just my opinion but if you're going to replace the bearings, why not go with something nicer like an Enduro ceramic bearing? They're double the cost but will perform better. Just my $.02.


Right but I have not found anything in my limited research that suggests that they are markedly better than a quality steel ball version for justification in the price. Plus I am not a weight weenie so the slight increase in weight is nothing I am concerned about. Granted I haven't done a whole lot of research but in this type of application there really isn't a "need" for ceramic ball bearings at close to/or more than the cost of a quality steel.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

gregnash said:


> Right but I have not found anything in my limited research that suggests that they are markedly better than a quality steel ball version for justification in the price. Plus I am not a weight weenie so the slight increase in weight is nothing I am concerned about. Granted I haven't done a whole lot of research but in this type of application there really isn't a "need" for ceramic ball bearings at close to/or more than the cost of a quality steel.


Word... Each to his own. I'm sure the bearings you buy will be sufficient.

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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Poopshute said:


> Word... Each to his own. I'm sure the bearings you buy will be sufficient.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So I am curious, why do you feel that the ceramic bearings would be better? Like I said, I have not done a whole lot of research on it but I am curious as to your opinion why they are worth double the cost?


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

same here i want to switch to ceramic bearings on hubs and BB but i can't find any seller in philippines


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## MTBeing (Jan 11, 2012)

farmdog said:


> I just purchased a set of WTB frquencu i23 29" rims and I need to get black spokes and red nipples. I'm going to use the Koozer hubs...what size nipples did you use and spokes?


When you get those bad boys built up post the pics, specs and the weights if you could. I'm considering the exact same setup.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

gregnash said:


> So I am curious, why do you feel that the ceramic bearings would be better? Like I said, I have not done a whole lot of research on it but I am curious as to your opinion why they are worth double the cost?


I come from a roller hockey background. Each wheel used a pair of cartridge bearings and we tried to get the highest ABEC rating possible with the least friction possible. Back then ceramic bearings were just being introduced and were not affordable. With inline skates, you could feel the difference in high quality low friction bearings vs. cheapos. I'm just using that experience and translating it to the biking world. I want my wheels to spin as smooth and fast as possible. Investing a few bucks more for bearings I'll keep around for a while (with proper maintenance) is worth it to me.

I installed an enduro ceramic BB a year ago and my crank free-spin was night and day compared to the stock shimano BB.

But, would you feel a difference let alone care? Totally up to you. I'm a techy-gadget guy. Like the latest and greatest as long as it's within my budget.

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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

less maintenance for ceramic bearings.. and rust proof, my vote goes to ceramic as well


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Ok see what I was read was that the ABEC rating only really applies to super high rpm situations. This is something that what I was reading is more for high speed machinery or vehicles, not bikes. 

With the advancements in technology the ABEC 3/5 bearing that are steel are same surface consistency as ceramic bearings. But yes the ceramic do not rust, but for me I do not live in a super wet area for riding. 


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## farmdog (Jul 15, 2015)

Bike hub store has the MTB180 / MTB270 Disc Hubset 15mm thru and 12x142 on sale now for $135 & free shipping...any opinions on these?


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## Myers005 (Jan 31, 2011)

There's an active thread about the BHS hubs http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/initial-thoughts-bikehubstore-mtb270-mtb180-hubs-948757.html
I have 2 rides on my BHS mtb270. So far so good, nice hub.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

$135 for the BHS hubs is a great price. I've got both, posted my opinion in this thread: Koozer vs BHS. I will add that the Koozer is a hell of a lot louder than the BHS MTB270.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

koozer 6 pawls much louder than my Circus Monkey HDW3


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

i replaced my front hub bearing a week ago and, all i need to do is remove i end cap, use rubber mallet to hammer down the axle and was able to remove them without issues,

same method on installing new bearings, i used d.i.y bearing press, same size of bearings

bearings on freehub body does have a different size


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

does anyone know the koozers weight?
they looks very interesting


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

I measured 201 g front, 304 g rear for the QR versions, without skewer.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

thanks


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

koozer's weight with skewers


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Ah,bummer, I see the 142x12 thru axle hub is NOT 6-pawls 72 POE but only 3-pawls

Koozer 72HD HA02N HA04N Hubs CNC Aluminum 2 4 Bearing 32h Through Axle QC Hub | eBay

Other sellers don't mention it... anyone has the thru axle version?


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

savo said:


> Ah,bummer, I see the 142x12 thru axle hub is NOT 6-pawls 72 POE but only 3-pawls
> 
> Koozer 72HD HA02N HA04N Hubs CNC Aluminum 2 4 Bearing 32h Through Axle QC Hub | eBay
> 
> Other sellers don't mention it... anyone has the thru axle version?


Try this one (seller Revmega).


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

bearings on koozer hubs much easier to replace than the circus monkey hdw3


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## drakche (Nov 8, 2012)

Just got a reply from revmega that the thru axle hubs are convertible to QR. If anybody is interested.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

drakche said:


> Just got a reply from revmega that the thru axle hubs are convertible to QR. If anybody is interested.


good to know.
does the conversion involve a different axle or just endcaps? and do they sell a conversion kit? can't see it listed.


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## drakche (Nov 8, 2012)

just endcaps. 10$, they are not listed. you need to contact him and pay the 10$ separately, and he will ship them

Also spare freehubs are 20$.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

drakche said:


> just endcaps. 10$, they are not listed. you need to contact him and pay the 10$ separately, and he will ship them
> 
> Also spare freehubs are 20$.


ah... too late, he already shipped my hub. may have asked before :madman:


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## drakche (Nov 8, 2012)

you can contac him and he will ship ou adaptors only


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

thnx, will do if i'll need them


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

Ok so had my Koozer hub now for awhile built to Arch EX rims. It engagement is amazing very impressed. Bit heavier than my DT240, louder and bearings not as smooth. I think if you changed out bearings on the Koozer to some higher end bearings of think it is a great hub for the money and can't be beat. I will upgrade to SKF bearings when mine need replacement otherwise just ride it for now.


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

I learned today that a batch of 12x142 hubs received axles with an incorrect ID tolerance (less than 12mm). I contacted Matt/Revmega and he had a replacement hub sent my way same day. I'm thoroughly impressed by both the hub and customer service! It's a real eye opener that Reborn is able to turn a profit on these hubs after both ebay fees and shipping from China!


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

I sent a email to Revmega. I wanted to see if he sold 12x142mm end caps. He told me you can't go from QR to 12x142mm, But only 12x142mm to QR. But the newer hubs should be able too.


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

For those that have had the rear hubs for a while, how are they holding up for you? I had an obnoxious creak develop a couple of weeks ago, coming from the rear of the bike under load... checked all of the pivots, looked for cracks in the frame, etc and eliminated the frame as the problem... don't see any obvious external cracks in the hub body, but I swapped wheels with my other bike and the creak followed the wheel, with no creaks on the original bike now. The 2nd bike is a single speed, so it wasn't in the cassette, and I didn't see any visible external issues on the freehub when switching. I guess the next thing will be to tear the hub down when I have time and see if I can find anything, meanwhile I'll continue to ride it in hopes that it becomes a little worse and thus more visible. Maybe I'll get lucky and find that it's a bearing issue...

Anyway, hoping maybe if any others are experiencing the same/similar problem, we might be able to nail it down.


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

You might have loose spokes on the rear wheel.


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

caRpetbomBer said:


> You might have loose spokes on the rear wheel.


That was actually the first thing I checked when I moved on to the rear wheel, but all was good; it doesn't sound like a typical spoke pop/creak though.


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## [email protected] (Aug 3, 2015)

https://m.facebook.com/wileybike/ph...28285104108/481589075354693/?type=3&source=56

Guys Koozer now have 15mm front tru axle


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> https://m.facebook.com/wileybike/ph...28285104108/481589075354693/?type=3&source=56
> 
> Guys Koozer now have 15mm front tru axle


I think they had the 15mm front thru axle for awhile now.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> https://m.facebook.com/wileybike/ph...28285104108/481589075354693/?type=3&source=56
> 
> Guys Koozer now have 15mm front tru axle





caRpetbomBer said:


> I think they had the 15mm front thru axle for awhile now.


Correct. In all colors too. They've had 15mm versions for quite some time now. Just ordered and received a red one myself. My rear 142x12 6-pawl version is still going strong after a full Summer of riding 3-times a week. Impressive for the cost. Love them so far!


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## [email protected] (Aug 3, 2015)

Poopshute said:


> Correct. In all colors too. They've had 15mm versions for quite some time now. Just ordered and received a red one myself. My rear 142x12 6-pawl version is still going strong after a full Summer of riding 3-times a week. Impressive for the cost. Love them so far!


Sorry .my bad... is it good for AM or aggressive ride?? Coz the 9qr one say its for XC ...i'm planning to put it on our giant trance


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry .my bad... is it good for AM or aggressive ride?? Coz the 9qr one say its for XC ...i'm planning to put it on our giant trance


I ride my trail bike pretty damn hard. I would consider my riding style aggressive XC and a little AM. I tend to go through/over things instead of ride around them. Tend to bottom out my suspension and all that jazz. Anyways, after a few crashes, the rear hub is still holding up great. I have to muscle up some semi-technical stuff too and the hub has never slipped or given way. I'm very impressed for now. The hubs are very easy to service as well. Everything comes apart very logically and replacement bearings are easy to obtain. For the price, it's kind of a no-brainer. You can buy multiple backup-ups of the Koozer hubs for the price you'd pay for one mid-high end hub... not that you'd need to.


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## iheartoregon (Apr 23, 2013)

I was going to grab a set of these hubs to build up a wheelset for my cx bike but it doesn't look like they are shimano 11spd compatible yet?


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## Acme54321 (Oct 8, 2003)

iheartoregon said:


> I was going to grab a set of these hubs to build up a wheelset for my cx bike but it doesn't look like they are shimano 11spd compatible yet?


Shimano 11sp is the same freehub body as 9/10.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Acme54321 said:


> Shimano 11sp is the same freehub body as 9/10.


11s mtb (11-40 or 42 cassette) is the same, but 11s road cassettes (up to 11-32) will not mount on 9/10s freehub body.


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## Acme54321 (Oct 8, 2003)

savo said:


> 11s mtb (11-40 or 42 cassette) is the same, but 11s road cassettes (up to 11-32) will not mount on 9/10s freehub body.


Yeah, I missed the whole CX part of it LOL.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

I have now logged about 500kms on my rear koozer hub. I have ridden it in the wet, sandy, muddy, dry etc. conditions and several creek crossings (with water level below the hub) and it has operated smoothly so far. I decided to take the hub apart today after a 70 km ride to see how everything was looking. I am very happy with what I saw.

The negatives: Some scoring due to the cassette digging in. This can be prevented by using a higher quality cassette (xt). I had to pry (carefully) a couple of the cogs off with a screwdriver.

The good: Grease on the pawls and over the bearings looks very clean. There was no sign of water or dirt under the seals. The pawls look in very good condition. Bearings still spinning very smoothly. Smoother than when new actually. Internal seals look very good. No play on the freehub body, or anywhere else. The hub appears to be very well sealed.

Some scoring on the freehub body by cheap cassette (deore)








Pawls in perfect condition as far as I can tell.














Grease clean and clear. No water or dirt contamination.














Except for the second picture of the zoomed pawl, all were taken before cleaning. Since I had taken it apart, I decided to go ahead and clean the grease an applied some phil wood oil. Now the angry bees have quieted down :-(

Cheers


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## vladi1295 (Oct 9, 2015)

*Question regarding 10 speed cassetee*

I was wondering if I can use 10 speed cassette on this hub and more specifically for the 40-11 set(17T replacing cog). I will be buying it soon  Thanks!


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

it is possible for the 10spd for the 11spd not really sure


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

yes you can use 10 speed and shimano mtb 11 speed.


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## vladi1295 (Oct 9, 2015)

That's great! Thanks! I'm still debating on whether i should get Sram X9 or this hub. But I don't like the idea of 12 POE. Don't know if the Koozer is gonna stand my type of riding which is enduro/freeride


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## hobdog31 (Jun 14, 2014)

I currently am riding wtbi23 on x9 hubs. The x9 hubs have held up well for me with all mountain riding, and I weight 235lbs. With my gear. I am building a new wheel set and am considering this hub set also. I love the high engagement but durability is the most important factor for my build. I really can't see any bad feedback online but I would love some feed back from people that are putting these hubs through jumps, steeps, mud and everything else that is truly fun about mountain biking.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

hobdog31 said:


> I currently am riding wtbi23 on x9 hubs. The x9 hubs have held up well for me with all mountain riding, and I weight 235lbs. With my gear. I am building a new wheel set and am considering this hub set also. I love the high engagement but durability is the most important factor for my build. I really can't see any bad feedback online but I would love some feed back from people that are putting these hubs through jumps, steeps, mud and everything else that is truly fun about mountain biking.


Probably put over 1000 km's on mine this season, all trail riding, no maintenance, often riding in the pouring rain. Jumps, yes, steeps, yes. I try not to ride muddy trails, but they have seen a lot of dirty standing water. 










I'm 180 lb without gear, but they probably get more of a beating since it's a hardtail. Trail in the photo is Comfortably Numb descent in Whistler.


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## Prostreet513 (Jul 4, 2009)

How are these hubs holding up for everyone? I saw they new have complete wheelsets but I don't know how good the rims are.

Koozer XM 650B 27 5" MTB Wheelset Wheel 32h 72HD Click Noise 4 Bearings Hub Set | eBay

Also has anyone built up a 27.5 (650B) wheel yet? I am thinking about getting these hubs with the nuke proof DH rims but I have no clue on spokes

Nukeproof Generator 275 DH Rim 2015 | Chain Reaction Cycles


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

no regrets on my Koozer hubs, yeah they are made in china, but so far still rolling


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

Mine spin great so far aswell. Seems drag has diminished more with use.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

DirtMerchantBicycles said:


> I learned today that a batch of 12x142 hubs received axles with an incorrect ID tolerance (less than 12mm). I contacted Matt/Revmega and he had a replacement hub sent my way same day. I'm thoroughly impressed by both the hub and customer service! It's a real eye opener that Reborn is able to turn a profit on these hubs after both ebay fees and shipping from China!


What issues did this produce? Was the through-axle not able to go through? How did you find out about this issue?


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## zemper (Aug 5, 2013)

@forcemajeure hey nice to see you here too i see you often in pinoymtbiker.org, do you have any idea if the shops at manila already sell 12x142 rear hub versions?


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

zemper said:


> @forcemajeure hey nice to see you here too i see you often in pinoymtbiker.org, do you have any idea if the shops at manila already sell 12x142 rear hub versions?


zemper,

sorry i dont have any idea about the 12x142, koozer in phils now cost a lot more,
more demand i guess...


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## KevinNZ (May 24, 2009)

has anyone tried the koozer hubs with the star ratchet/CK copy

KOOZER MCS 24H Straight Pull Hub XR1600

Koozer MCS 24H Straight Pull Hub XR1600 Hub Disc 7 EZO Bearing Front Rear MTB QR | eBay

Seems to one of the few 24 hole 142x12 hubs I can find.


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## zemper (Aug 5, 2013)

Cool find KevinNZ! Looks new though, I doubt many would have had experience with this one. Lighter than the existing Koozers it seems.

edit: darn, a 15TA + 12x142 set is about US $160. Kinda expensive for a relatively new product.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

KevinNZ said:


> has anyone tried the koozer hubs with the star ratchet/CK copy
> 
> KOOZER MCS 24H Straight Pull Hub XR1600
> 
> ...





zemper said:


> Cool find KevinNZ! Looks new though, I doubt many would have had experience with this one. Lighter than the existing Koozers it seems.
> 
> edit: darn, a 15TA + 12x142 set is about US $160. Kinda expensive for a relatively new product.


Yeah, great find! I'm going to contact the seller to see if they ever plan on making a 32h version. If you (or anyone) picks one up, please do post feedback. A star ratchet/clutch version for that price is pretty killer! Looks like similar tech as a Chris King at a fraction of the cost.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

KevinNZ said:


> has anyone tried the koozer hubs with the star ratchet/CK copy
> 
> KOOZER MCS 24H Straight Pull Hub XR1600
> 
> ...


Just contacted a Reborn rep. 32 hole clutch/ratchet version will be coming out soon. It will utilize the conventional j-spoke holes which will be easier for a wheel builder to measure out spokes. Too bad I have a fairly new pawl version! Although, I couldn't be happier with the pawl version. It's still running strong.


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## zemper (Aug 5, 2013)

Oh man, that's both good and bad news... currently trying to upgrade my stock 27.5 wheelset and torn between Koozer and Bitex hubs... J-spokes are good news as these are the most common spokes available here. hope that they make it soon, can't wait to build a proper 27.5 wheelset!!!


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

zemper said:


> Oh man, that's both good and bad news... currently trying to upgrade my stock 27.5 wheelset and torn between Koozer and Bitex hubs... J-spokes are good news as these are the most common spokes available here. hope that they make it soon, can't wait to build a proper 27.5 wheelset!!!


You'll definitely be a guinea pig with these new hubs. I'm sure they'll work great as this Chinese company is really trying to take a bite into the hub market. However, this new hub hasn't been tested much and their current 72 poe pawl version has been ridden by many people, myself included, with great results. I don't think you can go wrong with either version but you'll sure to be happy with their current version. If you do end up going with their ratchet/clutch version, please post up here!


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

KevinNZ said:


> has anyone tried the koozer hubs with the star ratchet/CK copy
> 
> KOOZER MCS 24H Straight Pull Hub XR1600
> 
> ...


No 32 holes for this new hub?


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Forcemajeure said:


> No 32 holes for this new hub?


Lol. Dude. Read... Three to four posts up.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Is the mechanical clutch that big an upgrade compared to the pawls? I guess I don't ride hard enough to destroy my freehubs. Still, is it worth holding out for?

I love the look of the straight pull hubs, but 24 spokes just isn't cutting it.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

GuitsBoy said:


> Is the mechanical clutch that big an upgrade compared to the pawls? I guess I don't ride hard enough to destroy my freehubs. Still, is it worth holding out for?
> 
> I love the look of the straight pull hubs, but 24 spokes just isn't cutting it.


The whole idea behind the clutch/ratchet hubs is based around strength. Pawl versions usually have about half the pawls engaged at any given time (so 3 speaking of the Koozer hubs). With a clutch system, all "teeth" are engaged whenever you pedal. There's a VERY low chance of ever "spinning" a clutch/ratch hub. Ok, with that said, I ride my bike pretty hard. I weigh about 210 fully geared and haven't had a skip or a failure in my pawl version hub. Yeah, the clutch/ratchet system looks awesome and I may have held out for it if I hadn't already bought/installed/ridden the entire season the pawl version. Reborn (the people who make these hubs) state that the 32H version of the clutch hub will be a j-spoke design. I actually prefer that as the straight pull spokes are not readily available and the lengths are very specific to the hub dimensions. J-spokes are very readily available and sizes are fairly standard with a few measurements of the hub. I guess the straight-pull design is supposed to be stronger since there's no bend but with some high quality spokes like the DT-Swiss comp j-bend spokes, you should rarely (if ever) break a spoke unless you hit it super hard on something.

I do agree that the straight pull design is pretty sweet looking.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Yeah, I googles and found http://www.rbn.hk/?lang=en and I knew what you meant by reborn rep. Did they give you any inkling as to the time frame or the price? I assume it going to be priced similarly to the straight pull version that's out now. The 93 dollar price point is what makes these things so appealing, but once you get close to doubling that, theres many other options, though none that include a mechanical clutch as far as I know.

I hear the straight pull are a ***** to get started as well, since they just spin and spin and spin. Maybe in a few more years theyll become more prevalent...


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

GuitsBoy said:


> Yeah, I googles and found http://www.rbn.hk/?lang=en and I knew what you meant by reborn rep. Did they give you any inkling as to the time frame or the price? I assume it going to be priced similarly to the straight pull version that's out now. The 93 dollar price point is what makes these things so appealing, but once you get close to doubling that, theres many other options, though none that include a mechanical clutch as far as I know.
> 
> I hear the straight pull are a ***** to get started as well, since they just spin and spin and spin. Maybe in a few more years theyll become more prevalent...


If you look for the seller "revmega" on eBay, he's a legit Reborn rep. He goes by Matt. Contact him for any information. He didn't give me a timeframe but I also didn't push for one since I'm not really in the market to buy one. I do agree that I think the price will be close to what the 24h version is. There's no way they would sell as many of these hubs as they do if they were anywhere near the price of comparable hubs that can be bough in the US. I really don't see it being anywhere near $200. I'm assuming it'll be in the $120 ball park which for a clutch system hub is a pretty great deal. Even their 6 pawl 72poe hubs they currently sell for $60 is a really damn great bargain for what you get. A comparable hub with anything near 72 POE is going to cost you at least $150.


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

Wow, already a new hub and clutch design! And Japanese bearings. Never heard of them (EZO) but the Chinese NBK bearings are meh.

Still waiting on a XD driver though. A couple weeks has turned into a couple months, oh well.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

DirtMerchantBicycles said:


> Wow, already a new hub and clutch design! And Japanese bearings. Never heard of them (EZO) but the Chinese NBK bearings are meh.
> 
> Still waiting on a XD driver though. A couple weeks has turned into a couple months, oh well.


Yeah, replacing the stock NBK bearings in mine with some enduro ceramics over the Winter months. The NBK bearings have been doing well but I hear they're nothing great.


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## Parapax (Nov 5, 2015)

So, my 10 ride old Koozer hub had a total freewheel failure to day, got towed down from the trails by my mate. Utterly disappointed. Need to take it apart and contact Revmega, but the little that was left of my sesson is ruined :/ Maybe the old saying "you get what you pay for" is still king


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Gutted. Have well over 100 rides on mine with no issues. Post pics when you get it apart.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Parapax said:


> So, my 10 ride old Koozer hub had a total freewheel failure to day, got towed down from the trails by my mate. Utterly disappointed. Need to take it apart and contact Revmega, but the little that was left of my sesson is ruined :/ Maybe the old saying "you get what you pay for" is still king


Finally! Our first failure. It's inevitable. There's always going to be a failed unit out if any mass-produced product. I don't agree with the slogan you used in this case as you're the first person to report on MTBR of a failed koozer hub. Lots of riders here have been using this hub with zero problems.

Regardless, this still sucks for you and I'm positive revmega will help you out. Please do take pictures once you pull it apart.


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## Parapax (Nov 5, 2015)

Will do, trying to contact every one i can think of to get some sort of replacement so i can get back on the trails again. Lovely autumn weather in Norway at the moment.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Parapax said:


> Will do, trying to contact every one i can think of to get some sort of replacement so i can get back on the trails again. Lovely autumn weather in Norway at the moment.


Contact revmega tell them about the failure and include pictures. So far, my experience with their costumer service has been awesome. I have built about 5 wheelsets with these hubs, two of which I personally ordered the hubs including one for personal use.

You are not alone with this, one of the hubs I built failed recently, one that had very little use with very mild xc riding. One of the bearings of the freehub body broke. The outer metal shell literally broke in pieces. This caused the freehub to go out of alignment and fail causing it to freewheel on both directions, damaging it beyond repair. I suspect that bearing was defective from the get go, no amount of human force applied on bike should be able to break a bearing like that. The other hubs have performed flawlessly.


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## zemper (Aug 5, 2013)

pics would be helpful for those of us still in the fence in getting this hub. not knocking on your misfortune, but could you at least post your weight, bike, and riding style? that would help most of us here in assessing the strengths and weaknesses of this hub. hope you can get yours warrantied.


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## vladi1295 (Oct 9, 2015)

Which one would you recommend guys: Koozer HA04N 12x142 or Novatec D772SB-X12 12x142 ? I will be using it mostly for AM and light DH not so much for aggressive riding. The D772SB has 4 paws though.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

zemper said:


> pics would be helpful for those of us still in the fence in getting this hub. not knocking on your misfortune, but could you at least post your weight, bike, and riding style? that would help most of us here in assessing the strengths and weaknesses of this hub. hope you can get yours warrantied.


These are a couple of pictures of the failure I was describing in the previous post. As you can see the bearing's outer race broke and the inner race got stuck in the axle. At first I though the axle had deformed because I could not slide out the inner race. I had to use a thick flat head screwdriver and some leverage to inch it out. It took some time but I was finally able to free it. To my surprise, I tried putting on the free hub body from another koozer hub and it slid in and out fine and worked smoothly. This means the axle remained intact and what actually got deformed was the inner race!

Revmega stood behind their product and took care of the issue. Excelent costumer service!! I think there could have been a factory defect with this bearing. I can't see how an industrial bearing would fail this way from cycling loads. Or maybe they can? As you can see, the grease was in good shape, little sign of contamination.

I will still be building and recommending these hubs. My other koozer has worked flawlessly and has been treated much more harshly and for much longer than this one that failed. I think this was a fluke and I feel confident in revmegas after sales service. I heard they have changed the bearing brand recently, so that could solve this issue for good. I am think of changing the bearings to skf on my other hub just for peace of mind.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

much better for new koozer hubs, replace the bearings right away with japan made bearings


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

This may have been posted already but does anyone know the bearing sizes for both the 15mm front hub and the 12x142 rear hub?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

I only have the rear 142x12 so don't know bearing size for front










15267 2rs










6902 2rs

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Thanks, dude! Very helpful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Thanks for the info. Is it worth changing out the freehub bearings or is that not as necessary?


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

GuitsBoy said:


> Thanks for the info. Is it worth changing out the freehub bearings or is that not as necessary?


I'm doing all four. Why not, ya know? They're all spinning the same amount. Going the ceramic hybrid route which will be a bit pricey with the two extra freehub bearings. About $200 to get all six bearings replaced with good quality ceramics.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Oh man, what a kick in the wallet. I realize nobody likes to rebuikd wheels over and over, but the bearings are twice the price of the hubs themselves. I'll probably stick with standard Japan made bearings if the stockers seem suspect.

As for the freehub spinning as much as the others, that may be true, but they're certainly not carrying the same load as the axle bearings. But I guess I could be talked into either direction.


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## abevern (Apr 21, 2009)

Putting $200 worth of bearings in a $100 hub. Someone explain the logic to me.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Well I guess you'd be hard pressed to find a set of ceramic bearing hubs for 300 bucks.

But then again, I never understood ceramic bearings for bike applications. I always thought they were for high heat and high rpm applications like turbines. I don't think they're any higher precision than quality steel bearings. Anybody able to explain the advantage?


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

To be honest, the more I think about it, spending $200 for new bearings does seem pretty damn steep. Anyone know of a good source to buy decent quality Japanese bearings?

Also, I believe these hubs are worth more than what they're being sold for. Going straight to the source (a Chinese source at that) has made these hubs cheaper than they would ever be if sold by a reputable big-name company. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

You can give amazon a try or your local hardware or bearing supply store.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I've seen vxb.com suggested in the past, however I dont have any experience with them personally. Ebay and amazon may be a less expensive alternative if you can find quality bearings you trust.

And incidentally, heres an informitive post / article about cermaic bearings and their use in mtb applications.

http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenies/ceramic-bearings-mtb-639885.html#post7179285


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

$200 for bearings is steep on a $100 mountain hub. The bearing tolerances are only as good as the hub's.

SKF, F.A.G., and INA are my go to bearings.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Dirty word filter got you. I assume that was F. A. G. bearings?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

So my hubs came in, and theres a chunk missing from one of the flanges on the rear hub.

Do you think its anything to be worried about? Yes, its noticeable, but it doesnt seem like it would be a structural issue.

Do you think its worth contacting the seller about? Or is this simply to be expected for a chinese product at this price point?









Just wanted to get your opinions on the matter.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Also, my bearing sizes for the were as follows:

Front 15x100 Thru Axle
NBK 6804-2RS
NBK 6804-2RS

Rear 12x142 Thru Axle
NBK 6902-2RS
NBK 6902-2RS

6 Pawl Freehub:
Tekino 15267RS
Appears to be same size Tekino 15267RS (Unverified due to rubber seal)


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

GuitsBoy said:


> Also, my bearing sizes for the were as follows:
> 
> Front 15x100 Thru Axle
> NBK 6804-2RS
> ...


I'd like to confirm these sizes. Checked on my setup as well. Thanks for the info!

Regarding the chunk missing... It seems mostly cosmetic from the picture you posted. Definitely unfortunate. If you're willing to be patient, I'm sure revmega from rbrn can make it right. Otherwise, I'd recommend taking it to a bike shop to get their opinion. My guess is it will be fine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I contacted the seller, sporttide. He was extremely quick to respond to both messages. I asked if he felt it was a structural issue or anything that might cause a problem down the road (even though I'm confident it does not pose a threat). He forwarded the image on to the manufacturer (probably revmega), and then replied confirming it should not be dangerous, but if I wanted to send it back, they would be happy to replace it.

I'm very happy to see that they were willing to replace it, but since I'm terribly impatient by nature, and that this is a $60 hub, I think Ill just run it as is. 

The seller's helpful response far outweighs the slight cosmetic defect.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

GuitsBoy said:


> I contacted the seller, sporttide. He was extremely quick to respond to both messages. I asked if he felt it was a structural issue or anything that might cause a problem down the road (even though I'm confident it does not pose a threat). He forwarded the image on to the manufacturer (probably revmega), and then replied confirming it should not be dangerous, but if I wanted to send it back, they would be happy to replace it.
> 
> I'm very happy to see that they were willing to replace it, but since I'm terribly impatient by nature, and that this is a $60 hub, I think Ill just run it as is.
> 
> The seller's helpful response far outweighs the slight cosmetic defect.


Good stuff. Are you having a shop build your wheels? If so, a second opinion from them wouldn't hurt either.


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## Parapax (Nov 5, 2015)

zemper said:


> pics would be helpful for those of us still in the fence in getting this hub. not knocking on your misfortune, but could you at least post your weight, bike, and riding style? that would help most of us here in assessing the strengths and weaknesses of this hub. hope you can get yours warrantied.


 Will take it apart this weekend and post some pics. The hub in itself is inexpensive, but getting the wheel laced is not, at least not where i live. Hoping its a issue that can be fixed without rebuilding the wheel. I`m 94kg, the bike is a 2012 Kona Honzo 29", and i ride woodland trails and fire roads, nothing endurolike.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Poopshute said:


> Good stuff. Are you having a shop build your wheels? If so, a second opinion from them wouldn't hurt either.


I'm building the wheels myself. I haven't build a set of wheels in a decade or so, and last time they were 20 inch, but I read up and figured I'd take a stab at it on a cheap wheel build for my secondary bike.

Having spent a fair amount of time around CNC machines, I know exactly what happened here. The casting ran short, or wasn't indexed correctly when they put it on the machine, and as the endmill cut the flange, it just ran out of material in that one spot. It wasnt a dent or chip due to impact. I'm confident its purely cosmetic, and its probably only .020 or .030 deep anyway. Not sure if they simply didn't notice it, or they just didn't care. Either way, it happened before the anodizing and printing process. I don't see an abrasion risk, but I will try to index it so the spokes face away from the section in question just the same.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

I ended up opting out of getting ceramic bearings due to the cost. Enduro bearings makes a high quality steel bearing with Abec 5 rating. All 6 bearings cost me $70. Still a little pricey but nowhere near the $200 it would've costed for ceramics. I'll post up install pictures once I get around to swapping the bearings out.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

so far I installed HCH bearings on my koozer, HCH made in china bearings - WTH??

can't find any japanese made bearings, I checked out HCH and they do have a website, so far it is still doing great, but next time will definitely get skf or jap type bearings


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

If you don't want to replace all the bearings or you want to wait till they fail, I would recommend to at least change the bearing on the pawl side of the freehub body. It appears that that is the bearing subjected to the most stress, and if it fails, at least the way mine failed, it could mess up your hub for good.

As you can see in the pictures, once the bearing's outer race broke, the pawls did not have adequate support so the pawls cracked and deformed the freehub body.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

thanks for the Pic abelfonseca,

will definitely replace my hch bearings, will hunt for japs


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Laced up my wheelset last night. Took just about an hour on the couch, while my 18 month old son stole spokes and nipples to chew on. I still have to dial in the dish, tension, and true, but so far so good.

Weight came in at 1816g combined (867 f / 949 r) with 100x15 / 142x12 Koozers on WTB ST i19 rims. A little skinny, but not bad for $170 all in.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Anyone know RevMega's or any of the other sellers direct email? I'm thinking of getting a complete XM29 rear wheel laced to the 12x142 72poe hub.

Also, does anybody have official hub measurements of these hubs?


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## drakche (Nov 8, 2012)

PHeller said:


> Anyone know RevMega's or any of the other sellers direct email? I'm thinking of getting a complete XM29 rear wheel laced to the 12x142 72poe hub.
> 
> Also, does anybody have official hub measurements of these hubs?


Revmega usually responds extremely quickly on ebay. You should shoot him a message.

You also have the measurements on RevMega's post on ebay.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I just got revmega's email.

deals(@)revmega(dotcom)

KOOZER HA02N/HA04N 6 Pawls 72HD Bicycle Hub Disc Bearing 32H







142mm Rear 
wR 34.74 mm
wL 22 mm
OLD 142 mm
dL 59 mm
dR 59 mm

Do I have that right?


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## zemper (Aug 5, 2013)

GuitsBoy said:


> Laced up my wheelset last night. Took just about an hour on the couch, while my 18 month old son stole spokes and nipples to chew on. I still have to dial in the dish, tension, and true, but so far so good.
> 
> Weight came in at 1816g combined (867 f / 949 r) with 100x15 / 142x12 Koozers on WTB ST i19 rims. A little skinny, but not bad for $170 all in.
> 
> View attachment 1029703


awesome! what spokes and nipples are you using? that weight is respectable considering how relatively heavy (for an 19mm iw) the rim is.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

zemper said:


> awesome! what spokes and nipples are you using? that weight is respectable considering how relatively heavy (for an 19mm iw) the rim is.


Thanks man. I used Sapim db spokes from Dan's comp, and 12mm dt swiss alloy nips from eBay. The rims were 460g a piece, and only 20 bucks per.

Between me and a buddy that rode the bike, there's onky about 10 miles on the wheels so far, but they're performing well. I have a big 2.4 xking up front despite the narrow wheel, but its working well. My only issue is the less than 1/8 clearance in the rear against the converted 26 inch frame. I might try a 2.0 saguaro tire instead of the 2.2 geax aka.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

GuitsBoy said:


> Thanks man. I used Sapim db spokes from Dan's comp, and 12mm dt swiss alloy nips from eBay. The rims were 460g a piece, and only 20 bucks per.


What was cost for the spokes and nipples?

$170 for front and rear rims laced up seems super cheap. That $93 for hubs, $40 for rims, and $37 for spokes and nipples. Am I reading that right?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

PHeller said:


> What was cost for the spokes and nipples?
> 
> $170 for front and rear rims laced up seems super cheap. That $93 for hubs, $40 for rims, and $37 for spokes and nipples. Am I reading that right?


Spokes themselves are 29 bucks from Dans plus $8 shipping (72 spokes, I wanted a couple extra) and I snagged a deal on the nipples for 8 bucks. Rims were from bikewagon, with a now expired 20% off coupon code. So yes, $170 plus the $8 shipping all in.


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

So is everyone changing the hch bearing immediately? Is it necessary? I bought a set of the xd1700 in 24h for a 24" wheelset, but now thinking I should have went with the xd1600 with ezo?


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Erock503 said:


> So is everyone changing the hch bearing immediately? Is it necessary? I bought a set of the xd1700 in 24h for a 24" wheelset, but now thinking I should have went with the xd1600 with ezo?


No. I think the consensus is that no one is a huge fan of the stock Chinese bearings. However, we have only seen one failure of the freehub body bearings. I was proactive and jumped the gun changing out all of the bearings in both the front and rear hubs after only one season. Inspecting the stock bearings after removal, they still had plenty of life left and were still fairly smooth when rotating them. I went the Enduro route (still Chinese made) and hopefully they'll hold up for a while.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

on my koozer HCH was not the stock bearing, i replaced the stock bearing, and installed new HCH bearings ( hch still china made ), had to replace the stock bearing since it was not rolling smooth, no jap bearing available that time so decided to go with hch china

here is the website of hch bearings

HCH Bearing

seems like a big company?


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## Prostreet513 (Jul 4, 2009)

I ordered a set of the 15mm/142mm through axles hubs and I am going to lace them up to a set of 27.5 DT Swiss FR570 rims with DT Swiss Champion spokes and alloy nipples. I will post pics and report back once they are built. I have the exact same set up on my other bike except I am running Hope Pro 2s


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Hey Guys,

Completed a full replacement of all 4 rear bearings on a rear hub and a the 2 bearings on a front hub. The front hub was very straight forward. The rear is a little trickier but is still straight forward. A couple tips: for the rear hub, remove the blue spacer and the metal ring before hammering out the o-rings with the axle. The pawl side bearing on the actual hub was very hard to remove just by hammering. I ended up pressing it out with a makeshift press (some nuts and washers and a threaded rod). The free hub bearings will need to be hammered out with a punch. There's no way to press these out. As mentioned in an earlier post, move the spacer (with your finger) that sits in between both bearings. Use a punch and a hammer to hammer out the old bearings. You'll most likely damage the bearing doing this so make sure you only do this if you're going to replace the bearings. You might be able to get away not damaging these bearings if you're careful and patient. Anyways, I can post a few pictures upon request. The good thing is at least two of us in this thread have completely rebuilt these hubs with all new bearings. Use us as a reference.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

yes please post pictures for reference


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Forcemajeure said:


> yes please post pictures for reference


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## jjmtb1 (Jul 15, 2008)

Ok. I cant take the talk anymore. I found some rims I couldn't pass up. With some Dan's comp spokes and these hubs I will be building a set over winter for fun. I don't even need wheels. But with the cost I will end up with it is worth it to cure my curiosity and stop wondering how these hubs will ride. I consider it the cost of therapy.

WTB I23 29" ($16 each shipped)
Dans comp spokes ($40 w/shipping)
Koozers ($90)

$162 built and ready to ride. Cheap therapy.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Thats a good deal man. Rims are kinda heavy though, but who cares for 16 bucks a pop. You can offset the weight of the wheels by upgrading to lasers, but its up to you if you can justify the added cost. I'd love to have gone with lasers, but not at my weight.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

jjmtb1 said:


> Ok. I cant take the talk anymore. I found some rims I couldn't pass up. With some Dan's comp spokes and these hubs I will be building a set over winter for fun. I don't even need wheels. But with the cost I will end up with it is worth it to cure my curiosity and stop wondering how these hubs will ride. I consider it the cost of therapy.
> 
> WTB I23 29" ($16 each shipped)
> Dans comp spokes ($40 w/shipping)
> ...


Nice! Good luck on the wheel build! I'm sure you'll love these hubs especially if you're coming from a run-of-the-mill shimano hub. Two things got me to pull the trigger on these hubs:

1.) I was running a shimano rear hub and I absolutely DESPISE the cup/cone/loose ball bearing design. It is the most obnoxious thing to dial in right when rebuilding the rear hub. Either you have too much play or you have pitting because you tightened the cone nuts too much. Finding the sweet spot is near impossible.

2.) I converted from QR axles to 15mm/142x12 solid axles.

Can't be happier with my decision. I will give you one warning, when pulling the free hub out, be careful as the pawls and springs tend to come out. When putting the free hub back in after maintenance, don't force it in there. Push it down, gently, as far as it will go, then use a pick or something to push all the pawls down (they'll stay down because they'll grab the rubber seal) then push the free hub in the rest of the way. I was a bit impatient once and didn't realize one of the pawls and springs had come out while re-installing the free-hub. Ended up slightly warping one of the springs (still works and was able to straighten out the spring again).


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Where the heck are you guys finding these rims so cheap?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

PHeller said:


> Where the heck are you guys finding these rims so cheap?


Bikewagon with 15% off coupon code I assume.


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## jjmtb1 (Jul 15, 2008)

GuitsBoy said:


> Bikewagon with 15% off coupon code I assume.


Yep. That's where I got them. No shipping charge either. I bought 4. I only need 2, actually one but then the front and back wont match. That might be too much for me to handle.

I know they are a bit stout but so am I. At 205 before gear I am not worried about a some grams. Plus, homebuilt wheels make me feel fast and make me smile.

I have a set of Arch/American Classic on my geared bike and factory built American Classic SS on my SS. This set will be used to convert my SS into a 1x10 for the days I feel like it. I didn't want to add another wheelset with a 1x10 group so this is what I came up with to justify more wheels I don't need.

The American Classic's roll so free. It seems like I always outcoast others I ride with but the engagement suks. The Koozers will be my test for POI and see how much difference it makes.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

What length spokes did you use with the i23/Koozer rear hub?


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## jjmtb1 (Jul 15, 2008)

PHeller said:


> What length spokes did you use with the i23/Koozer rear hub?


I havent ordered spokes yet. I will be using dans comp. I have built many wheels with their spokes so I just know where I will buying from and how much it usually is.

It is winter in WI so there is no hurry. I will wait until I feel trapped in the house, crack some beer, and get to work. I have until April to finish them.

I will use the dimensions that are on the previous page, measure ERD, and use a spoke calculator. Easy Peasy.


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## mglder (Dec 8, 2015)

Very glad I found this thread. In need of some cheap decent hubs fairly quickly, and have gone with the 15mm / 142x12 set.

Only thing bothering me is spoke length I need to buy now, as the rims I am fitting them to are asymmetric (WTB Asym i29 - 27.5") so not sure if that makes a difference when it comes to trying to figure it all out?!


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## Prostreet513 (Jul 4, 2009)

I got my hubs and I have to say I am impressed with the quality so far. I am going to start building up my 27.5 wheels today so I will post pics when I am finished.

I am using the 15mm front, 142mm rear 6 pawl, DT swiss FR570 wheels, DT Swiss Competition spokes, and DT Swiss alloy nipples


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## bopApocalypse (Aug 27, 2005)

DirtMerchantBicycles said:


> Still waiting on a XD driver though. A couple weeks has turned into a couple months, oh well.


Any further word on this? Thinking about picking some of these up to build w/ some LB rims, don't _need_ the xd driver currently, but would prefer a little bit of future-proofing if possible.


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

Wish they made a 170/ 135 for fatbike 


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

funnyjr said:


> Wish they made a 170/ 135 for fatbike
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


same here waiting for koozer to produce hubs for fatbike


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

Poopshute said:


> Just contacted a Reborn rep. 32 hole clutch/ratchet version will be coming out soon. It will utilize the conventional j-spoke holes which will be easier for a wheel builder to measure out spokes. Too bad I have a fairly new pawl version! Although, I couldn't be happier with the pawl version. It's still running strong.


any update on the 32h clutch version?


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

savo said:


> any update on the 32h clutch version?


Sorry, haven't reached out to reborn as I'm not actively looking to buy this version.

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## Prostreet513 (Jul 4, 2009)

Here they are

27.5 DT Swiss FR570 Rims
DT Swiss Competition Spokes with alloy nipples
Koozer 142mm/15mm Through axle 6 pawl hubs


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## jokaankit (May 4, 2014)

Any updates on the qr version being convertible. QR to 15x100 and 12x142. I believe the Hope pro evo 2 can do this.


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## Bryn52 (Dec 30, 2015)

Hey guys. New to this site but have been curious about these hubs for a while.
Read loads of the info on here and have dropped Revmega a message as I'm wondering if they'd be strong enough for All Mountain/Enduro use. 
Cheers for all the info! Real help having a forum like this for un known products


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Bryn52 said:


> Hey guys. New to this site but have been curious about these hubs for a while.
> Read loads of the info on here and have dropped Revmega a message as I'm wondering if they'd be strong enough for All Mountain/Enduro use.
> Cheers for all the info! Real help having a forum like this for un known products


Hey there,

I'm not sure what your definition of All Mountain or Enduro are. If you're wondering if these hubs can handle the speed and impact of hard hits, they have been working fine for me (I recently rebuilt them with new bearings and no axle bending). If you're wondering if they can climb up technical stuff without skipping a beat, same thing. They've held up quite nicely for the entire season. Couple videos linked below of the type of riding I do on them (might need to scroll in a few minutes on the Betasso one):

Betasso
Hall Ranch


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## L1nX (Jan 7, 2016)

Hey gyus. 
I'm curious is it possible to make 135*12 endcaps for this hub?


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## Tourendo (Jan 22, 2004)

I wish Koozer would come out with a 20mm fully convertible front hub and a 32 hole clutch- rear.


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## dischucker (Apr 9, 2008)

I'll add Boost to that wish list.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

They won't produce anymore clutches hubs as they are too complicated. They are going to a star-ratchet style hub with 32 holes. Should see it mid-year.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

PHeller said:


> They won't produce anymore clutches hubs as they are too complicated. They are going to a star-ratchet style hub with 32 holes. Should see it mid-year.


Did you get this from the source (Reborn)? Also, I thought the star-ratchet style and clutch style were the same thing.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Yes I got picture of the revised mechanism prototype from RevMega.

It does look different from the existing "clutch" mechanism they have on the ebay posting. At least from what I can tell.























I asked RevMega if the ratchet rings would be replaceable with no reply.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

PHeller said:


> Yes I got picture of the revised mechanism prototype from RevMega.
> 
> It does look different from the existing "clutch" mechanism they have on the ebay posting. At least from what I can tell.
> 
> I asked RevMega if the ratchet rings would be replaceable with no reply.


Awesome! Thanks for the helpful posts! The original design looks very much like a DT Swiss/Chris King style hub. The redesigned version looks much simpler where they'll just add a spring to keep the two plates together. It'll be interesting how reliable it will be.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

With no prior knowledge or understanding, it would appear the design up top forces the ratchet teeth together under load, and pulls them apart when coasting / back pedaling. The bottom design looks like it would require a spring to keep the ratchet teeth pushed together. Seems like it would have to be a fairly robust spring, which might lead to drag when coasting. Hopefully thats not the case, or at least so small an effect its imperceptible.


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Sorry to derail a bit with the current subject matter but it looks like Reborn has QR quick release end caps for their current straight-through hubs (142 x 12 rear and 15mm front).

Koozer HA02N HA04N Hub Parts Convert Kit Adapter from thru Axle to Quick Release | eBay


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Has anyone discovered a cheap 30+mm internally wide rim option to pair with these hubs for a sub-$125 rear wheel? or $200 wheelset? 

While the chinese are making oodles of wide carbon rims, they don't seem to be doing the same with normal alloy variants.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

I'm counting 28 teeth on that second ratchet, so 28 POE then?



PHeller said:


> Has anyone discovered a cheap 30+mm internally wide rim option to pair with these hubs for a sub-$125 rear wheel? or $200 wheelset?
> 
> While the chinese are making oodles of wide carbon rims, they don't seem to be doing the same with normal alloy variants.


I imagine a wide alloy rim that cheap would be pretty terrible for strength and/or weight? But I would also have said nobody would make a hub this good for the price, so who knows...


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

can't wait to hear the sound of the new koozer with MCS, anyone with links?


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## jkidd_39 (Sep 13, 2012)

Anyone with a time line on the fancy new CK style hub? ?

Sent from my SM-T110 using Tapatalk


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## Tourendo (Jan 22, 2004)

Would bearings sold by Enduro be an upgrade to the ones in the Koozer?


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## abevern (Apr 21, 2009)

cerebroside said:


> I'm counting 28 teeth on that second ratchet, so 28 POE then?


I did the same. 
28POE is pretty disappointing, I don't care how good the mechanism is.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Enduro bearings are well respected, so I would think they would be a good upgrade.

As for the POE, yes, its a bit disappointing, but at least its not 16 or 18 POE.


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## jimovonz (Jan 10, 2016)

*Koozer 72 POE HUB creaking [solved]*



gotdurt said:


> For those that have had the rear hubs for a while, how are they holding up for you? I had an obnoxious creak develop a couple of weeks ago, coming from the rear of the bike under load... checked all of the pivots, looked for cracks in the frame, etc and eliminated the frame as the problem... don't see any obvious external cracks in the hub body, but I swapped wheels with my other bike and the creak followed the wheel, with no creaks on the original bike now. The 2nd bike is a single speed, so it wasn't in the cassette, and I didn't see any visible external issues on the freehub when switching. I guess the next thing will be to tear the hub down when I have time and see if I can find anything, meanwhile I'll continue to ride it in hopes that it becomes a little worse and thus more visible. Maybe I'll get lucky and find that it's a bearing issue...
> 
> Anyway, hoping maybe if any others are experiencing the same/similar problem, we might be able to nail it down.


I had this exact same issue, was driving me nuts. I checked everything but the creak was still there. After establishing that the noise still occurred when I put the hub under load using the pedals with the disc brake locked up, I decided the issue was in the hub and not the spokes (as I previously assumed). I removed the seal that covers the ratchet/pawls and used my finger to pack more grease in. After replacing the seal the hub actually sounded quieter and the creak was gone


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Reading through the thread, it looks like the axles are flexing excessively, tilting the freehub body into the hub body. I think they need to beef up their axle. 

I was on the fence and considering one, but from this thread it looks like its not going to be a long term durable hub.


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## abevern (Apr 21, 2009)

One Pivot said:


> Reading through the thread, it looks like the axles are flexing excessively, tilting the freehub body into the hub body. I think they need to beef up their axle.
> 
> I was on the fence and considering one, but from this thread it looks like its not going to be a long term durable hub.


While its fresh in your mind, is it also true that this was only a problem with the QR hubs and that the 142x12 would likely be better based on the additional stiffness provided by the thru axle?


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Has already been resolved the problem of the paws soft support?


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

PHeller said:


> Has anyone discovered a cheap 30+mm internally wide rim option to pair with these hubs for a sub-$125 rear wheel? or $200 wheelset?


Have you checked out the new easton arc rims? They come in 24, 27 and 30 mm internal width flavors. They are not exactly cheap (about 90 a pop), but much cheaper than cheap carbon. They have been receiving pretty good reviews.


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## DudeDowne (Jun 18, 2012)

+1 on the Easton Arcs. Got them for $79 ea. I just built up a set using the Koozer 72 HDs for my Ragley mmmbop. Since it is a hard tail I can tell these are pretty stiff and have taken abuse as I am learning that I am not on a FS anymore.

Compared to my last build with BHS hubs and Nextie 30mm hoops I am very pleased. Seemingly Just as stiff and the Koozer hubs have better engagement.

We shall see if they hold up all year though.


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## NEET (Jun 8, 2015)

Do I need to replace the Bearings as soon as I get these HUBs? Can they handle my 250lbs?


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

NEET said:


> Do I need to replace the Bearings as soon as I get these HUBs? Can they handle my 250lbs?


I would replace the bearing on the pawls right off the bat. The rest I would use them till they failed.


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## abevern (Apr 21, 2009)

My hubs have arrived. X12/15QR. 
They look nicely built. Measured weights are 205gm/299gm which is quite reasonable. 
Rear hub (not free hub) bearings feel a little stiff, but all others are smooth. Good amount of clear grease used in assembly. I will run them as is, but have replacement bearings on hand if they don't free up in the first few rides. 
I'm building them up with new OOZY Trail345 rims and Sapim D-Light spokes.


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## Prostreet513 (Jul 4, 2009)

Weird question but has anyone experienced the surface where the rotor mounts being slightly uneven causing the rotor to not sit properly inside the brake caliper? At first I thought it was the fork or adapter so I had both of those faced and its still slightly off.


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## mooneyes13 (Jul 1, 2006)

Ok guys, i want some of these, but I think i will replace the pawl bearings off the bat.

I looked in the thread and did not see the pawl bearing sizes and qtys. could someone please post.

Also- if anyone has 15mm front bearing sizes and QR rear bearing sizes. Thanks


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## yuanyou (Jan 30, 2016)

I am going to buy these hubs too, and my idea is change the pawl bearings too, so I'd appreciate some info about this. Thanks!

Enviado desde Tapatalk


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## abevern (Apr 21, 2009)

Bearing sizes for 72POE hubs with 15QR and 142x12

15mm front:
Model: 6804, Size: 32*20*7mm, Count: 2pcs
==========
12x142mm rear:
Model: 6902, Size: 28*15*7mm, Count: 2pcs
Free hub: model:15267RS, size is 15*26*7mm
Count: 2pcs

All the above info is directly from Revmega. He's very responsive to questions.


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## yuanyou (Jan 30, 2016)

abevern said:


> Bearing sizes for 72POE hubs with 15QR and 142x12
> 
> 15mm front:
> Model: 6804, Size: 32*20*7mm, Count: 2pcs
> ...


Great thanks! I'll ask them directly about the 135x10 then. 

Enviado desde Tapatalk


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## Breitness24 (May 7, 2010)

Anyone know where I can get that blue washer that sits against the pawls? Mine cracked and caused a pawl to pop out. Other than this the koozer hub has done me well.


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## abevern (Apr 21, 2009)

Breitness24 said:


> Anyone know where I can get that blue washer that sits against the pawls? Mine cracked and caused a pawl to pop out. Other than this the koozer hub has done me well.


Have you tried asking where you bought it from? Revmega? I'd be interested to know the response.

The problem with a lot of the off-brand kit is that it's hard to get small parts. I'd guess that the blue washer comes as part of a replacement freehub, which I recall being available somewhere.

It's possible (likely?) that the blue bit is a standard size and would be available through other channels - maybe a bearing shop?


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## Breitness24 (May 7, 2010)

Yeah already spoke to rev. 5 bucks for the spacer. However it was 18 bucks for the whole free hub with pawls etc. so I just paid the 18. My old one is all chewed up from my cassette anyways. So I though 18 was a pretty good deal shipped. I also noticed some wear on some of the pawls.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Breitness24 said:


> Yeah already spoke to rev. 5 bucks for the spacer. However it was 18 bucks for the whole free hub with pawls etc. so I just paid the 18. My old one is all chewed up from my cassette anyways. So I though 18 was a pretty good deal shipped. I also noticed some wear on some of the pawls.


Do you have a link to where you can buy the freehub body?


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

$18 shipped is incredible. With bearings and pawls?!

I've noticed a few ebay sellers posting the hubs with what look to be ano black freehub body. Same alloy? Possibly lighter?


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## Breitness24 (May 7, 2010)

I contacted revmega directly through eBay. He said it was the whole free hub. Whether he understood me clearly is another story. So we will see. He sent me an invoice I paid.


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## Tourendo (Jan 22, 2004)

I finally got my Koozer hub , it took 5 weeks to arrive. I got the 142mm with extra QR caps. Unfortunately one of the QR caps was missing :madmax: so I have another long wait till I'm able to use the hub. The hub will be used QR, and as a backup for a 142 wheel on another bike.

I tried fitting endcaps from a Hope Pro 2 evo hub, but they were too large. The outer diameter of the Koozer 12mm axle is noticably smaller than the Evo axle. The pawls are quite a bit smaller also.

I wonder the thinner axle is contributing to the Koozer freehub bearing failures. Hope had a problem with 12mm axle flex on their Pro2 hubs and made the Evo axle thicker to fix the problem.


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## mooneyes13 (Jul 1, 2006)

It took my hubs 2 days to show up. The build has started with Stans rims and Bikesmith spokes.


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## DudeDowne (Jun 18, 2012)

abelfonseca said:


> I would replace the bearing on the pawls right off the bat. The rest I would use them till they failed.


Hey all,

After reading through the thread it seems many feel the freewheel bearings are suspect? Have others experienced freewheel skipping when under load? Do bearing upgrades help?

Thanks!


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## Breitness24 (May 7, 2010)

Upon further inspection of my free hub I found that the metal on the hub seems to be worn right around the individual pawl. And that's what lead to my failure. I am a big guy so I'm sure I put a lot of torque on the climbs. Here's a macro pic to see.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

i think that can still be repaired or bring it to a machine shop


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## Breitness24 (May 7, 2010)

Ok guys I need some serious help. After swapping out my free hub with my buddies who has the same but hasn't installed yet it still skipped. So I figured my hub was worn and the teeth were rounded. So stupid me I bought a whole new set and an extra rear. I just finished installing it and the damn thing brand new still skips under load. def not as much as my old hub but i can't safely ride. So then I swapped out the free hub with my second rear hub and it still skips and I'm about to lose my mind. If there are 6 pawls how come they all skip and not maybe one skip but the other 5 grab. Please someone chime in I'm dying here.


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## DudeDowne (Jun 18, 2012)

Breitness24 said:


> Ok guys I need some serious help. After swapping out my free hub with my buddies who has the same but hasn't installed yet it still skipped. So I figured my hub was worn and the teeth were rounded. So stupid me I bought a whole new set and an extra rear. I just finished installing it and the damn thing brand new still skips under load. def not as much as my old hub but i can't safely ride. So then I swapped out the free hub with my second rear hub and it still skips and I'm about to lose my mind. If there are 6 pawls how come they all skip and not maybe one skip but the other 5 grab. Please someone chime in I'm dying here.


Breitness24,

So I have been experiencing some free hub skipping under load as well. For me it seems to occur if I am pedaling and leaning the bike. Such as coming out of a corner. Based on the thread it appears that some folks attribute this to a flexy axle and poor quality bearings.

If anyone has specific bearings that they have used please respond. I was considering REAL WORLD Cycling ceramic hybrid angular contact bearings but at around $70 I wanted to be sure these remedy the problem.


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## Breitness24 (May 7, 2010)

My new hubs are from rev and these are supposed to be the new models. The free hub is black. These are the thru axle model and he gave me qr adapters. The new models are supposed to be better with harder materials. My old hub was just a regular qr hub. And I weigh 270 maybe I can swap out my old bearing onto the new hub.

Update: Matt (rev) responded pretty damn fast like 20 min. He asked me to take pics and vids of my hub and advised he will solve it or refund me. Hopefully they can solve it. 

After reading the thread I check the bearings from my old hub that lasted over a year under my 260 lb frame and the new hub. The bearings are different brands.


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

Try SKF bearings as mentioned earlier in thread. Problem seems to be wimpy bearings unable to keep axle centered under load thus unable to keep freehub spinning on proper axis thus creating misalignment of pawl engagement. Not necessarily axle flex but rather axle movement. I think the deformation of the alloy around pawl in above macro pics is a direct result of this. This issue was also common with Stans 3.30 hub. Bearings were toast - replaced with SKF and never again had problem. 
Hope this solves it. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Breitness24 (May 7, 2010)

Ok I figured my issue it and it def deals with flex. I had my original koozer since april of '14. I've been swapping the rear wheel from a steel SS and my full squish. Recently I've Ben neglecting the squish for the SS. So I decided to go ss on my squish. 

I'm using a cheap aluminum eBay spacer kit on my SS gear. Since the SS is steel it didn't flex. And whenever I swapped the rim to my squish the 10spd cassette kept it all stiff. But the SS gear and aluminum spacers in the squish alum. Frame was a no go too much flex. I just rode both bikes as normal and no popping. 

So do you guys think if I find steel spacers for the SS kit I could run it on my squish ?


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Decided to rebuild my much abused, one season old, set of Koozers. Originally purchased Jan 2015. They were still running fine with no problems as of the end of September, ~120 rides on them so well over 1000 km in all weather conditions.

Freehub internals looked like they saw a bit of water, which isn't surprising considering what I put them through. Bit of corrosion on parts, no grease left. Guess I should have done some mid season maintenance. Cleaned them up and added a bit of grease before the photo below, though I'm going to replace the freehub assembly anyway.

Blue washer was toast; broken into multiple pieces, can be seen to the left. Little bit of deformation on the freehub body, not sure if this would affect operation. I'm 185 lb before gear and not exactly a masher, I can imagine a heavier rider could destroy this thing pretty rapidly. Haven't experienced any skipping.



Bearings were mostly fine (i.e. felt smooth, with no notchiness or gritty feeling). Only bad ones were rear NDS hub shell 6902, which was very notchy, and one on the front hub, which wasn't as bad. I guess this could easily account for the wear visible on the freehub. Going to replace the whole lot.

Mine are QR F/R but same as below apart from the two in the front hub, which were NBK 6902-2RS (i.e. same as the rear):



GuitsBoy said:


> Also, my bearing sizes for the were as follows:
> 
> Front 15x100 Thru Axle
> NBK 6804-2RS
> ...


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## Parapax (Nov 5, 2015)

So, finally got some time to take the wheel apart, but i can`t get the freehub off. Any suggestions? It`s the 12x142 version.


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

Grasp it and should pull straight out. Even with the cassette still on it can pull right out as one unit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Parapax (Nov 5, 2015)

It doesn't move at all. Will try and contact Revmega and see what they say. 20 hours use and the freehub stops working... :/


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

Hmm perhaps try putting cassette back on and tap from opposite side to try dislodging. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mglder (Dec 8, 2015)

Parapax said:


> It doesn't move at all. Will try and contact Revmega and see what they say. 20 hours use and the freehub stops working... :/


Has it actually stopped working, or do you mean it just won't pull off easily? As they are two pretty different things.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

There's nothing holding it on the hub. Just pull. If it's stuck, put the cassette on and pull on the cassette with both hands. 

I bought the new black fhb model. I have pretty low expectations! Built it on a kom i23. We'll see.


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## DudeDowne (Jun 18, 2012)

funnyjr said:


> Grasp it and should pull straight out. Even with the cassette still on it can pull right out as one unit
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This ^ plus I found taking the axle end cap off helps too.


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## Parapax (Nov 5, 2015)

Freehub is broken, turns both ways with no engagement. Taken both end caps off, put the cassette back on and tried to pull it off, doesn't want to move at all. Tried to pull it off with water pump pliers, didn't work. What`s next? Taking the disc off and hitting the backside of the cassette with a hammer?


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Parapax said:


> Freehub is broken, turns both ways with no engagement. Taken both end caps off, put the cassette back on and tried to pull it off, doesn't want to move at all. Tried to pull it off with water pump pliers, didn't work. What`s next? Taking the disc off and hitting the backside of the cassette with a hammer?


If you're out of other options you could try knocking the axle (and attached freehub) out from the other side. Place the hub over something with a circular hole that the flange can sit on, freehub down through the hole, and knock the axle through from the top. There is a lip that retains the axle behind the hub bearing, so you will pop the DS bearing out too, but at least you can see what's going on.


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## DudeDowne (Jun 18, 2012)

Forcemajeure said:


> View attachment 1005059
> ayt here are some pics, took me several hours to complete the task as i wanna take my time and be careful with the bearings and hubs.. will test ride the bike next time
> 
> i forgot to take a picture of the retainer ring, like a washer on the axle ratchet side, you have you use thin metal to pry it out
> ...


Just replaced the rear bearings (freehub and shell) with SKF bearings purchased on eBay. After a quick run around the block I didn't detect any freehub skipping. I was really cranking hard corners on the asphalt and wasn't able to detect problems as I usually found the freehub skipping when coming out of a corner and pedaling hard.

Also...as an FYI. Keep your old bearings as they come in handy to press in new ones if your using a threaded rod.

Thanks everyone for the tips.


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## Parapax (Nov 5, 2015)

So finally got it off, what`s your thoughts?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

That should buff right out...

Holy hell, you did some job on destroying that thing. But why is it only 3 pawls? Was this an earlier koozer? Though I thought the black freehub was supposedly the new stronger design? Any chance it was a mismatched freehub from a different hub?


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## Parapax (Nov 5, 2015)

According to PayPal it`s a KOOZER HA02N/HA04N 72HD Hub. What is it supposed to look like? I have never had a freehub fail before, and this was after 20 hours of light riding :/


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

If you look on the last page, youll see a picture of a freehub with 6 pawls (the flippers that skip over the teeth in one direction, and grab in the opposite direction). Yours appears to be only 3 pawls. Do you have a picture of the ratchet ring? I believe that the ring should have 36 teeth. If you only have 3 pawls, you probably only had 36 POE and not 72, so you didnt really get what you paid for. And if it was a different brand freehub, that may have lead to your problems. But just as easily, this might be an earlier style, and was indeed the genuine article, but a design thats different from what most of us have. I cant confirm one way or another.

Who did you buy it from?


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## Parapax (Nov 5, 2015)

Horrible light, but here you go. Bought it from Revmega.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Parapax said:


> According to PayPal it`s a KOOZER HA02N/HA04N 72HD Hub. What is it supposed to look like? I have never had a freehub fail before, and this was after 20 hours of light riding :/


+1 on what GuitsBoy said. I see that all your pawls are stuck behind the springs instead of infront of them, hence no engagement. A few of mine were like that when I pulled mine out, not sure what causes it. I assumed it was deformation of the freehub body around where the pawls attach, but yours looks fine.

If you pull the pawls out and push the springs back behind them your hub should work again (for the moment).

Edit: That's 36 POE. They used to sell both 3 pawl and 6 pawl versions, either you picked the 36 POE one or they sent you the wrong one.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Parapax said:


> Bought it from Revmega.


 Did you buy it recently? Shoot him a message stating that it failed in 20 hours of light riding, and show him these pics. Ask him why its not a 6 pawl freehub? My guess is it's either old stock, or some kind of factory mixup. Hopefully he can do something for you. Please keep us updated.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

cerebroside said:


> +1 on what GuitsBoy said. I see that all your pawls are stuck behind the springs instead of infront of them, hence no engagement. A few of mine were like that when I pulled mine out, not sure what causes it. I assumed it was deformation of the freehub body around where the pawls attach, but yours looks fine.
> 
> If you pull the pawls out and push the springs back behind them your hub should work again (for the moment).


Took me a minute to see them, but I think youre right. I thought the pawls had simply fallen out, but you can just see them peeking out behind the springs. Still, that freehub looks toasted. Look at the gouges from the ratchet ring. Hopefully the seller will help him out, and if not, free hubs are cheap, although Mine was $26 shipped, not $18 like posted above.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

GuitsBoy said:


> Took me a minute to see them, but I think youre right. I thought the pawls had simply fallen out, but you can just see them peeking out behind the springs. Still, that freehub looks toasted. Look at the gouges from the ratchet ring. Hopefully the seller will help him out, and if not, free hubs are cheap, although Mine was $26 shipped, not $18 like posted above.


I don't think the gouges affect the operation of the freehub, though another poster in this thread said they indicated the bearings were poor which leads to the freehub body contacting the ratchet, and probably all the other problems people are having. Perhaps if the freehub moves far enough away from center the springs can slip out from under the pawls.

My freehub was $18 USD and $5 shipping, though I haven't received it yet. Replaced my hub body bearings with SKF and put my old freehub back on for the moment.


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## Parapax (Nov 5, 2015)

Sent them a message with the pics. I bought this hub after searching the web for a affordable 12x142 hub without center lock disc mount (not easy to come by) I would not have bought it if i knew it was a 36 POE.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

My concern would be that the gouges that deep would stand a bit proud on the edges as the metal is deformed and displaced, possibly contacting the ratchet and wearing sooner. Also, something caused it to seize and lock up to the point where it needed to be hammered out. I do agree that the bearings are the most likely contributor to the freehub getting skewed, and what you say makes sense about the springs coming out while under load.

I guess no harm in trying, but Id certainly want a new freehub on its way just the same.


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## Parapax (Nov 5, 2015)

Result! Sent pics and asked them why the hub body reads 6 pawls and freehub only has 3 pawls. Here`s their response: "I see, it's our mistake. sorry for that, I will send you a new rear hub soon. It's a 3 pawls hub, a mistake by production line, some hubs mix together, it happens when our 12x142 hub first released last year. So please confirm your shipping address again. thank you"

Happy camper


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## DudeDowne (Jun 18, 2012)

Parapax said:


> Result! Sent pics and asked them why the hub body reads 6 pawls and freehub only has 3 pawls. Here`s their response: "I see, it's our mistake. sorry for that, I will send you a new rear hub soon. It's a 3 pawls hub, a mistake by production line, some hubs mix together, it happens when our 12x142 hub first released last year. So please confirm your shipping address again. thank you"
> 
> Happy camper


Bummer to read your story. Glad you are making progress. From the response it seems that they are shipping you a 3 pawl hub? Shouldn't it be a 6 pawl since that is the newer version.

Good luck getting everything sorted.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Great news Parapax. Glad to hear theyre taking care of you.

Sounds to me like they're sending you a whole new rear hub, not just the freehub. I guess you'll have to relace your rear wheel, but at least you'll have a better hub in there now.

Are you planning on changing out the bearings as soon as you get the new hub?


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## Parapax (Nov 5, 2015)

GuitsBoy said:


> Are you planning on changing out the bearings as soon as you get the new hub?


Yeah might as well do that. Don't know how to build my own wheels so need to spend about 80usd to have my lbs build it up for me. Not exactly what I would call a cheap hub, total cost with two rebuilds and hardwear: 210usd. Could have bought a complete wheel for that price. Well, that's life.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

You can just stick the freehub from your replacement hub in your old hub shell (for free). Might want to change the hub shell bearings first, though I don't think anyone has established whether that solves the problem yet.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

cerebroside said:


> You can just stick the freehub from your replacement hub in your old hub shell (for free). Might want to change the hub shell bearings first, though I don't think anyone has established whether that solves the problem yet.


I recently took a look at the hub from a guy whose previous koozer freehub body failed totally (pawls broken, pawl bearing broken, FHB deformed and marred from making contact with the ratched ring). I posted the pictures earlier on this thread.

So we got a new freehub body a couple of months ago, changed the pawl bearing with an "enduro" bearing right off the bat and installed it on his old hub shell. I told him I wanted to inspect it to see how it was holding up. The freehub body looked as good as new, it slid off the axle easily and smoothly when removing it, there were absolutely no marks from contacting the ratchet ring and all 6 pawls were working fine and dandy. 
I cant say for sure that that this is proof that the lousy stock pawl bearing is the culprit for these problems and that this is a definite fix, but it looks promising so far. This is a pretty hefty and strong dude btw. 250 pounds of fat and fit muscle. He can push some nice peak watts I am sure. Never underestimate the power of a fat fit man.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

So do you think swapping out the freehub bearings only is enough preventative maintenance or do I really need to swap the hub shell bearings as well to see any benefit?


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

abelfonseca said:


> I recently took a look at the hub from a guy whose previous koozer freehub body failed totally (pawls broken, pawl bearing broken, FHB deformed and marred from making contact with the ratched ring). I posted the pictures earlier on this thread.
> 
> So we got a new freehub body a couple of months ago, changed the pawl bearing with an "enduro" bearing right off the bat and installed it on his old hub shell. I told him I wanted to inspect it to see how it was holding up. The freehub body looked as good as new, it slid off the axle easily and smoothly when removing it, there were absolutely no marks from contacting the ratchet ring and all 6 pawls were working fine and dandy.
> I cant say for sure that that this is proof that the lousy stock pawl bearing is the culprit for these problems and that this is a definite fix, but it looks promising so far. This is a pretty hefty and strong dude btw. 250 pounds of fat and fit muscle. He can push some nice peak watts I am sure. Never underestimate the power of a fat fit man.


Good to hear. Mine will be fully changed to SKF when I get it, I'll try to pull it occasionally and update here.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

GuitsBoy said:


> So do you think swapping out the freehub bearings only is enough preventative maintenance or do I really need to swap the hub shell bearings as well to see any benefit?


We decided on only replacing tha pawl side freehub body bearing because it was the only one that failed, the others were still rolling smoothly. I think it wouldnt hurt to have them all replaced, but if you want to skimp, at least go for the pawl side freehub body bearing.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I'll probably just replace them all at some point. Its a low priority since they haven't given me any issues yet. Though I just rebuilt my wheelset with i35 rims for my B+ build, so they're about to get some heavy mileage pretty quickly.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Im going to do both of the fhb bearings. Just paid $17 shipped for 2 of them, from SKF. 

I pulled apart the hub and removed the seals. The bearings are properly greased, they're just bad quality. On the plus side, these really are pretty big bearings. A decent quality bearing in the hub should really help it out. 

Im still a little weary of the axle thickness, but it does seem like more than a few people are having good luck after replacing the bearings. 

If you wait until something fails, its going to cause you more problems than if you just replaced the bearing right off the bat.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I contacted Jeroen at "The Hub Doctor" ebay store and asked if he had any packages for Koozer hubs, and he was kind enough to create two listings for us, one SKF and one Hybrid Ceramic. He said he prefers the hybrid ceramic ones since they roll faster. Both are rated ABEC 5. Not sure if there's anything else that would sway you towards SKF over the hybrid ceramic at the same price.

Hybrid Ceramic for 15/12 thru axle:
Koozer Hybrid Ceramic Ball Bearing Front Rear Wheels Freehub Bearings | eBay

SKF for 15/12 thru axle:
Koozer Hybrid SKF Ball Bearing Front Rear Wheels Freehub Bearings | eBay

Anyway, these seem to be a bit cheaper than piecing together the bearings in 2 packs.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

GuitsBoy said:


> I contacted Jeroen at "The Hub Doctor" ebay store and asked if he had any packages for Koozer hubs, and he was kind enough to create two listings for us, one SKF and one Hybrid Ceramic. He said he prefers the hybrid ceramic ones since they roll faster. Both are rated ABEC 5. Not sure if there's anything else that would sway you towards SKF over the hybrid ceramic at the same price.
> 
> Hybrid Ceramic:
> Koozer Hybrid Ceramic Ball Bearing Front Rear Wheels Freehub Bearings | eBay
> ...


Nice, that's who I just got mine from. They do say in the listing, but note that the QR front uses different bearings as stated on the last page.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

cerebroside said:


> Nice, that's who I just got mine from. They do say in the listing, but note that the QR front uses different bearings as stated on the last page.


Sorry, yes, I meant to mention that. 15mm/12mm thru axles.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

GuitsBoy said:


> Sorry, yes, I meant to mention that. 15mm/12mm thru axles.


Rear is the same, so it should work for 15-F/QR-R combos too. Not many people running QR front anymore, but 135 drops on the rear are still pretty popular on hardtails. Thanks for organizing that package with the seller.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I bought SKF abec 5's for the freehub. I think (hope?) they're stainless. 

I used enduro LLB's for the hub shell. They're big bearings with big seals, the llb's are supposed to have less seal drag than 2RS bearings. 

Total was $23 shipped. I dont necessarily want ceramics in my hubs. I think you get a better quality bearing using comparably priced stainless. Real high quality ceramics are insanely priced.


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## Tourendo (Jan 22, 2004)

I finally got the QR endcaps for my 142 Koozer rear hub and finished building the wheel today. RevMega shipped out the correct parts right away. but it took 2 months by the time everything arrived.

I used a Mavic F219 rim and Sapim Race spokes. I'll be ordering a spare freehub soon, just in case, and enduro bearings for the freehub.


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

One Pivot said:


> I bought SKF abec 5's for the freehub. I think (hope?) they're stainless.
> 
> I used enduro LLB's for the hub shell. They're big bearings with big seals, the llb's are supposed to have less seal drag than 2RS bearings.
> 
> Total was $23 shipped. I dont necessarily want ceramics in my hubs. I think you get a better quality bearing using comparably priced stainless. Real high quality ceramics are insanely priced.


I agree w you in regards to the ceramic bearings. I ordered some few yrs back to rebuild my wheels and they literally disintegrated after a short period of time. SKF work awesome from hub doc.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

funnyjr said:


> I agree w you in regards to the ceramic bearings. I ordered some few yrs back to rebuild my wheels and they literally disintegrated after a short period of time. SKF work awesome from hub doc.


Only reason I rolled the dice was because they ceramics were priced the same, and of the two, the hub doctor suggested the ceramic over skf. Ill have to defer to his expertise on the matter. If they do disintegrate in short order, it will be a rather inexpensive lesson in marketing.


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## ENVE (Mar 10, 2016)

I would like to try a 157mm OR a 150mm spacing for DH, not tons of pedaling in my world like you guys so I think the 6 pawls sound would just be a nice HOPE knock off that would be good enough for me?

*BTW The SKOOTER 24h hub with ratchet style engagement is a Chris King knock off, I think the truth is in the material they use to clone it.*


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

This is absolutely not a DH hub.


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

Most roadies will put down much more torque than a DH rider. I'd have no issue running these on my DH bike. That said, they are not offered in a 12x150/157mm or a 20x110mm.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

People are destroying these things on normal bikes. ONE bearing goes out and the hub eats itself. While we can replace the bearing and keep going, its really not just that one bearing causing the issues. I have DT 240 hubs that had trashed bearings and the hub was fine. Its not about torque, its the axle bending. These dont have beefy axle. DH bikes need beefy axles.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

i installed HCH bearing made in china, please dont use them, use japan made bearings


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## rmorballl (Feb 11, 2010)

I have replaced the inner freehub body bearings on 2 different hubs and still cracked the freehub body and I used enduro bearings that are visibly thicker than the stock tekino bearings. I am now trying the new rear hub with the black hub body and hoping for better results.


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

My rear Koozer fell apart. Started to hear popping sounds from the hub. Took off the wheel first thing i noticed was the lock nut was loose. Pulled off the freehub and the bearing of the freehub was stuck on the axle. Pawls came out all over the place. Bearings are toast in the hub. Not going to bother fixing this hub. Going with a Hope. Something a lot more reliable.


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

One Pivot said:


> People are destroying these things on normal bikes. ONE bearing goes out and the hub eats itself. While we can replace the bearing and keep going, its really not just that one bearing causing the issues. I have DT 240 hubs that had trashed bearings and the hub was fine. Its not about torque, its the axle bending. These dont have beefy axle. DH bikes need beefy axles.


The forces applied through the pedals similarly reaches the axle. Yes, the bearings are appearing to be the short fall on these hubs but the flanges/body seem to be holding strong. There are a lot of sh!t hubs out there, I'll take these over 90% off the hubs on the market. Still no issues with my set that's ridden on my 130mm bike, but I'll take a look at the bearings next time the wheel is out. I'd have no issues putting them on my DH bike if 12x150mm and 20x110mm were offered.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

These black FHB's are really new. The old ones certainly werent holding up at all, so hopefully this new design really is significantly better... but we'll see. Its been raining enough that I cant get a ride in, but come summer I think a lot of us will be piling on miles. We'll see.

As it sits now, these are one of those **** hubs on the market. The freehub shouldnt smash into the ratchet ring and destroy itself. I understand the few odd failures with any product, but we're seeing a pattern failure. I really hope they did fix it with the black freehub models.

If you can build your own wheels... hey, 60 bucks for 72pt! If its going to be your only wheel and you're paying to build it up, id really wait a few months to see what happens.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

One Pivot said:


> These black FHB's are really new. The old ones certainly werent holding up at all, so hopefully this new design really is significantly better... but we'll see. Its been raining enough that I cant get a ride in, but come summer I think a lot of us will be piling on miles. We'll see.
> 
> As it sits now, these are one of those **** hubs on the market. The freehub shouldnt smash into the ratchet ring and destroy itself. I understand the few odd failures with any product, but we're seeing a pattern failure. I really hope they did fix it with the black freehub models.
> 
> If you can build your own wheels... hey, 60 bucks for 72pt! If its going to be your only wheel and you're paying to build it up, id really wait a few months to see what happens.


Hard for me to complain since I've put a lot of kilometers on mine with no functional issues (just the freehub marring). Since people seem to be destroying newer ones in a matter of hours perhaps there is some quality fade going on? That has been a big problem with cheaper lights. Or perhaps they are just more popular now so the issues are more obvious.

Either way, the next best deal (IMHO) for a high engagement hub is the Bitex/BHS MTB270, which is almost double the price ($110 USD) for slightly less engagement (54 POE). No reported issues with that one, and mine has been stellar.
If you want 72 POE then there is the Superstar Tesla EVO, which is triple the price (and has its own freehub problems.)


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

It's a kinda tough call. In my case, I stick to used DT350 hubs, usually in complete wheelsets. You can find DT Swiss Spline wheels, usually take offs from people who are upgrading to carbon or what have you, for under $300, and if you're lucky you'll get one of the wider versions. I scored a set of X1700 for $250 in like-new condition. Koozer complete wheels would have cost $180 or so, and I've never built wheels so paying an extra $70 for a quality wheelset was worth it. Granted someday I'll need to upgrade to wider rims, but I also trust that the 54t rachet that's installed will still work completely fine, I'll still be able to get quality bearings, and even better, I'll be able to get 148 conversion end caps. 

I am totally that dude who has no problems sourcing cheap Chinese or Taiwanese parts, but in some cases going the used route and getting lightly used quality parts from big name manufacturers has its advantages.


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## Cronoscr (Jan 26, 2015)

so, the new koozer hub (2016) is not recommended?


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Cronoscr said:


> so, the new koozer hub (2016) is not recommended?


Hard to say. One person has broken theirs, but the specific circumstances are not known, apart from it probably being due to poor bearing quality (?). For the other failures it was not stated whether it was an old or new model.
Obviously not the most reliable hub in the world, but if you are comfortable working on your own wheels and want to take a bit of a gamble for high POE, then I would still recommend it. Personally it has paid off for me, since I have not had any failures. If you are worried about reliability and are willing to pay a bit more then perhaps choose something else (i.e. BHS MTB270).


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## rmorballl (Feb 11, 2010)

I have destroyed 2 of the earlier ones despite replacing the inner and outer freehub bearings with enduro bearings (gold color fhb's). I received one of the new 2016 black ones and have already put around 75 miles on it (others failed within 1 or 2 rides) and hard uphill miles and I weigh close to 240lbs. No scoring, no crushed bearings (kept the stock ones which are upgraded skf bearings) no noise, no issues whatsoever. The new ones have upgraded aluminum supposed to be the same hardness as DT Swiss fhb's. I think the problems have been fixed with the 2016 hubs, wouldn't hesitate to now buy them again. Rvmega on ebay has been the most helpful seller I have ever dealt with.


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## Cronoscr (Jan 26, 2015)

I am heavy , what is BHS MTB270?? i dont found any on ebay, actually i have a novatec but is something battered


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

I just want to put this out there. I'm running the original 72 poe hubs and have replaced the bearings (pro-actively) this past winter. However, these hubs have been solid for me. I'm 210+ geared up and I power over technical things. I've recently blown through an XT 10-speed cassette however the hub is still holding up strong. I do service the hub at the end of every season by cleaning and re-lubing the pawls. I've been running these hubs since May 2015 and I ride at least 3 times a week (aside from the last 2-3 winter months). I'm confused as to how many versions of these there are so maybe the first round were built stronger???


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

One Pivot said:


> ...Its not about torque, its the axle bending...


There is a common theme running through all of these chinese rear hub failures - a thin wall alu 15mm axle is just not strong enough. There is a huge amount of bending force where the inner bearing of the freehub and the inner bearing in the hubshell meet. This is where the axle bends and results in contact with the drive ring, pawl failure, freehub failure and premature bearing failure. The bending of the axle is actually causing the bearings to fail because of the loads caused by the axle bending.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

TigWorld said:


> There is a common theme running through all of these chinese rear hub failures - a thin wall alu 15mm axle is just not strong enough.


I just drilled out my endcaps and converted to a 10x135 thru axle. Would adding a short length of 10mm ID 12mm OD tube between the thru axle and the hub axle do anything to stiffen it? Does this problem only affect QR rear hubs and not thru axles for just this reason?


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Chronoscr - BHS website, great customer service, nice basic hubs w/ a good reputation.
BikeHubStore.com


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

GuitsBoy said:


> I just drilled out my endcaps and converted to a 10x135 thru axle. Would adding a short length of 10mm ID 12mm OD tube between the thru axle and the hub axle do anything to stiffen it? Does this problem only affect QR rear hubs and not thru axles for just this reason?


This would solve the problem IMHO.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

TigWorld said:


> This would solve the problem IMHO.


Yeah, I figured it would be worth a try. I ordered a 50 cm length of 12mm OD 10mm ID titanium tubing from china for $16. Assuming the diameters are accurate, I should be able to cut it down with an angle grinder and reinforce the existing aluminum axle. It should work for QR skewers too, at least for the T/A hubs with QR endcaps.


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

TigWorld said:


> The bending of the axle is actually causing the bearings to fail because of the loads caused by the axle bending.


Or is it the other way around.. bearing failure causing axle to move?

Since some have seemed to have remedied using higher quality bearings.

I had same problems with Stans 3.30 hub and fixed using SKF bearings.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

SRAM XD Driver freehubs are out, it seems. Unfortunately 2016 model year only right now. Sent Revmega an email asking if the 2015 would be coming out soon. Ill let you guys know.

Koozer HA02N HA04N Hub Parts Freehub SRAM XD Driver 2016 2015 Model | eBay

Does anyone know if the 2015 and 2016 freehub pawls and ratchet rings are the same? Ive seen both hubs and endcaps, and it looks like if they did fit, you might be able to grind down the endcap a bit to get it to work on the 2015.


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## mooneyes13 (Jul 1, 2006)

so far so good with my hubs. replaced the 2 bearings in the freehub as well. but did multiple rides with stock bearings


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

SRAM XD Driver info:

As per Revmega, only the 2016 hub can be converted to XD driver. The 2015 hub is standard freehub only. Do not be confused by the ebay listing, if you select 2015, your only choice will be the standard freehub.

Not sure its worth buying both a new rear hub AND freehub just to get an XD driver on there. Guess Ill stick with an 11t.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

How do you distinguish between 2015 and 2016. Not sure which I have honestly 

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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I think you can tell by the freehub. The 2015 freehub has two 15267 bearings. The 2016 freehub has one 15267 and one 6902 I think. Not 100% sure exactly of the bearing number, but I do know the 2016 has two different bearings in the freehub.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I bought what was listed as a 2016. It has two 15267 bearings in the freehub, and a 6902 bearing shield stuffed in the end as a dust shield.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

For what it's worth, a buddy of mine just brought his new xd driver over and it seems to swap fine with my older freehub. Mine is definitely two 15267 bearings. The endcaps were slightly different but it looked like it would work.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

anyone has a link of a video for new koozer hubs XR1600 with clutch mech?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Revmega strongly cautioned me against using the XD freehub on the 2015 12mm rear hub. He said the waterproofing seal as well as the endcaps are different. 

Visually, yes they are different, but in measuring with a vernier caliper, the endcap is pretty close. Only .035" difference, which I could easily grind down. The waterproofing seal doesn't seem like it would physically interfere much either, but it my well become ineffective at keeping water out. It shoudl still offer some dust protection, but it wont be a perfect seal since the seals are different. I dont ride in a lot of adverse conditions, so I think Ill be ok.

I think I'm going to throw caution to the wind and order up the XD freehub despite his warnings. Ill let you guys know how it goes.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

So finally decided that I am going to try my hand at wheelbuilding this year and build up a new set of "wider" rims. I know that there was some talk of the bearings in these not being all that great and that some were changing them out. 

For those that changed them out, what did you change them too?
Also, It looks like there may be an updated version that has newer bearings? When purchasing how do I tell which are the newer and which are the older?


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

gregnash said:


> So finally decided that I am going to try my hand at wheelbuilding this year and build up a new set of "wider" rims. I know that there was some talk of the bearings in these not being all that great and that some were changing them out.
> 
> For those that changed them out, what did you change them too?
> Also, It looks like there may be an updated version that has newer bearings? When purchasing how do I tell which are the newer and which are the older?


reason why i changed the bearings was i just want to have a peace of mind, knowing that i can install japanese made bearings, instead of waiting for the chinese bearings to pop out...

yup and i replaced them with hch chinese made bearings, after few months, i replaced them with japan made bearings.. so far so good


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## cipo23 (Sep 2, 2014)

I use 2016 XD freehub on koozer 2015 hub. But I must use new 2016 freehub dust shield (orange) . With old 2015 (black) did not work properly.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

cipo23 said:


> I use 2016 XD freehub on koozer 2015 hub. But I must use new 2016 freehub dust shield (orange) . With old 2015 (black) did not work properly.


Great to hear. Where did you get the dust shield from? I was just going to try and turn down the xd freehub lip on a lathe, but Id rather swap out for the proper dust shield if possible.


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## cipo23 (Sep 2, 2014)

GuitsBoy said:


> Great to hear. Where did you get the dust shield from? I was just going to try and turn down the xd freehub lip on a lathe, but Id rather swap out for the proper dust shield if possible.


I order new hub, so I try change it. I wrote REVMEGA about new dust shield. He sent them to me for free.


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

Can you just get the freehub body or bearings for the rear koozer hub.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

caRpetbomBer said:


> Can you just get the freehub body or bearings for the rear koozer hub.


You can order new freehubs from Revmega on ebay. They have standard freehubs for both 2015 and 2016 hubs. The XD freehub is 2016 only, but a few of us are trying to retrofit to 2015 hubs.

As for bearings, you can source the bearings from whereve you like. Most people seem to like SKF or enduro bearings. There are bearing pacakges available on ebay from "the hub doctor", but these are for the 2015 model. If you have the 2016 hubs, you can contact him with the bearing part numbers and see if he will customize a set for you. Or you can buy each bearing individually (or in pairs) for a couple bucks more.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Forgot to mention this, but I successfully reinforced my rear axle. I ordered a length of 12mm titanium tubing from ebay, and it just arrived yesterday. I measured the existing axle length and cut the tubing down with an angle grinder. Sadly, it was a little too tight to fit through the stock axle, so I put it in my drill press chuck, and spent 20-30 minutes sanding it down with emory cloth. Finally, I removed enough material to tap it through the stock axle. The 10mm thru axle I have was still a bit loose, so I shimmed with with some metal tape I had laying around. Now everything is a snug fit, and the rear axle should me considerably stiffer than it was. Good thing too, since I already have ratchet ring teeth marks on the freehub body due to axle flex, even with upgraded bearings.


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

Man this thread is scaring me. I built 2 sets of wheels with the 2015 hubs for my kids. I figured their weight would be ok, but you guys are making me wonder if I'm going to be walking bikes back to the car this summer. 

Can someone give me the numbers for the bearings I need to order? Is the front as susceptible as the rear?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

GuitsBoy said:


> I think you can tell by the freehub. The 2015 freehub has two 15267 bearings. The 2016 freehub has one 15267 and one 6902 I think. Not 100% sure exactly of the bearing number, but I do know the 2016 has two different bearings in the freehub.


@Erock503 The 15267 is the bearings that I believe you are wanting to go with for everything. If nothing else you can pull the hubs apart and see the bearing numbers on the bearings themselves or talk with RevMega on ebay. There is nothing really "wrong" with the supplied bearings, I mean this thread has been going on for a while with 20pgs of responses and I think 1 person has had bearing issues. Ultimately, most people will NOT like things that are Chinese made due to the QA/QC processes being fairly inaccurate (or at least that is the perception) and so they just replace. But again, if you do not have issues then you should be fine. and really if you are having kids ride these then you are definitely fine. I believe that once you get into adults that ride hard and are a bit heavier (clydes even) that is where the Chinese bearings start having issues.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Erock503 said:


> Man this thread is scaring me. I built 2 sets of wheels with the 2015 hubs for my kids. I figured their weight would be ok, but you guys are making me wonder if I'm going to be walking bikes back to the car this summer.
> 
> Can someone give me the numbers for the bearings I need to order? Is the front as susceptible as the rear?


I'm >180 lbs before gear and haven't had a failure in over a year of riding. Still on the original freehub since my replacement hasn't arrived yet, and the bearings needed doing anyway. I think a lot of other people are replacing the bearings more as a precaution than anything. If you're worried about it pull the freehub and check for marring or pawls stuck behind springs.

Edit: The bearing replacement advice only relates to the freehub marring and pawls moving out of place, you only need to do the front if your bearings get gritty, etc.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I have to agree with what gregnash has to say. No cause for concern, especially at child weights.

I am proactively replacing and reinforcing my rear hub because I am at 240 Lb ride weight with a 425 pound squat. That's not to say I'm a good rider, but I certainly put more force on my drivetrain than the average joe. The fact that my stock hubs survived my first trip out should give you confidence they'll hold up for your kids.


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

Thanks guys, really appreciate the perspective and numbers.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

I am with @Guitsboy in that when I get mine I will probably look at replacing the bearings with high quality Japanese bearings. This is mainly because I will be taking my time to build these new rims, not in any particular hurry. 

I am a research analyst by profession and nature, so this will give me adequate time to do some learning and make determinations on some good bearing companies. I know that NSK and SKF are good brands and have heard mixed reviews about Enduro. Ultimately, everyone has a main mfg somewhere and they are not dedicated to producing the exact same bearing for just one company, so many times you can find off-brand bearings that are made to the same quality standards as the higher end bearings but at half the cost (this was my findings about 10yrs ago when Vizio first started coming on to the LED/LCD TV market).


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## microbike (Sep 20, 2011)

Hi folks.I am planing to put together a pair soon.
I need help with some sizes of hub.
Hub center to flange center ?
Rear:34.74mm and 22mm
Front: 23.16mm and 38.21mm

Please advised am I looking at the right number?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

microbike said:


> Hi folks.I am planing to put together a pair soon.
> I need help with some sizes of hub.
> Hub center to flange center ?
> Rear:34.74mm and 22mm
> ...


That's how I did mine. Looks good to me.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Should be getting my new rear tomorrow. Interested to see, touch it and take a look at the internals and bearing. Ended up contacting RevMega to see about 20mm front and Boost. He said definitely not doing 20mm fronts but Boost is something that may happen soon.


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## microbike (Sep 20, 2011)

gregnash said:


> Should be getting my new rear tomorrow. Interested to see, touch it and take a look at the internals and bearing. Ended up contacting RevMega to see about 20mm front and Boost. He said definitely not doing 20mm fronts but Boost is something that may happen soon.


Hi there,please share the Hub center to flange center size number.
I was looking at below number,hope they are correct.
Rear:34.74mm and 22mm
Front: 23.16mm and 38.21mm


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Only ended up getting the rear but that looks to be right according to their drawings. When I get home tonight I can take a look and grab my calipers. 

Funny thing is that the hub is much nicer looking than I expected. Can confirm the bearings with photos tonight. Pretty much only had time to pull out of the box and hear it click, which was NUTS hearing that much engagement.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Ok so here are measurements from my hub
Overall hub length w/ caps = 141.8mm
Overall hubshell = 79.25mm
Driveside hub flange = 67.93mm
N/Driveside hub flange = 67.91mm
Inside of NDs hub flange to end of cap = 37.84mm
Inside of Ds hub flange to end of cap = 53.4mm
Centerline of hub measurement would be 70.9mm (half of overall length)
with above calculations
Centerline to NDs hub flange = 33.06mm
Centerline to Ds hub flange = 17.5mm

Now I am doing this based on measurements calculation instructions from Roger Musson's website (I bought the book) which tells you to measure from the inside edge of the hub flanges which is slightly different than Koozer (they measure from middle of hub flange itself). I measure the hub flanges being 3.51mm thick each so you could compensate by half that on both. (here is his Spoke Calculator page). So they are pretty close with how the measure... As his book says, you can use the mfgr's info as a basis but you should ALWAYS measure for yourself. As you can see mine are just a bit off from their numbers but probably within an allowable amount.

I am going to message RevMega as I have one concern with the hub. In the hub body there seems to be a small piece of tubing that is meant for the axles to slide in. Mine is loose and rattles around in there when I take the hub body off. Anyone else have this issue?

In this photo you can see what I am talking about.
Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Got a response back from RevMega (Matt) this morning and he said that it is just fine. The internal of the body is built like that and will not cause problems. Stoked at his quick response!


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

Ordered and received my third set. Once again, flawless transaction. My latest order shipped DHL (opposed to USPS), only 4 days in transit!

I had an identical Hope Pro 4 hub set on hand (15x100mm, 12x142mm XD), the hub sets are within 10 grams of each other. 475g for Hope, 480g for Koozer (not the most accurate scale, it uses 5g increments).


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Swapped over to the new XD driver and a sram GX casette last night. Fit the 2015 12x142 rear axle just fine with the stock endcap, not the one provided with the XD. Pulled the dust seal out of the hub shell (snap fit) for the time being, until the compatible one comes in. 

Worked beautifully on a 15+ mile ride this morning. The 10t really helps now that I've dropped to a 28T direct mount up front. Ordered a pair of 15267 ceramic bearings to swap in there at some point in the future.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

it seems that LDCNC hubs and koozer is using the same bearing size for the free hub body, 15x26x7 or simply 15267, anyone knows where i can buy that kind of bearing? mine is still ok but for peace of mind it will be much better if i have a backup


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Ebay. Just make sure it's from a quality manufacturer.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah I found them on ebay. SKF is a good brand as well as Enduro.. Looks like the stock bearing are NBK which I have never heard of before.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I went with the "hub doctor" on ebay for my bearings. His customer service has been great. I went with the ceramic hybrid bearings (unknown manufacturer) at his suggestion, but he also sells SKF. Theres a few other sellers, but thats the only one I've dealt with.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Has anybody else broken the blue plastic pawl retaining ring on the freehub? I took my freehub off to clean it out, and install the newer style dust seal I received from revmega. While cleaning the freehub with a cloth, the retaining ring split in two. I attempted to take one from my old standard freehub and broke that one as well. I'm pretty sure Its not absolutely necessary, but Id like to replace the ring. Has anyone else run into this as well?

Otherwise the modifications I have made are helping considerably. I have ZERO marks from the ratchet ring making contact with the freehub now. The 12mm x 10mm titanium intermediate axle, and the 10x135 thru axle, not to mention the new bearings, have really solidified things. The hub seems very very stout now, since I am putting a lot to torque through them at 240 lbs ride weight, 28t/42t gearing, and 3.0" tires.


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## DudeDowne (Jun 18, 2012)

GuitsBoy said:


> Has anybody else broken the blue plastic pawl retaining ring on the freehub? I took my freehub off to clean it out, and install the newer style dust seal I received from revmega. While cleaning the freehub with a cloth, the retaining ring split in two. I attempted to take one from my old standard freehub and broke that one as well. I'm pretty sure Its not absolutely necessary, but Id like to replace the ring. Has anyone else run into this as well?
> 
> Otherwise the modifications I have made are helping considerably. I have ZERO marks from the ratchet ring making contact with the freehub now. The 12mm x 10mm titanium intermediate axle, and the 10x135 thru axle, not to mention the new bearings, have really solidified things. The hub seems very very stout now, since I am putting a lot to torque through them at 240 lbs ride weight, 28t/42t gearing, and 3.0" tires.


Funny you mention this...yes is the short answer.

Been on my hubs for 4 months. After a few rides I notices that I was getting a periodic skip on the freehub when pedaling. Almost felt like one pawl was not catching before the next in line grabbed. So based on feedback in this thread I ordered SKF bearings for the rear hub and freehub. When swapping the bearings out I did check that the blue retaining ring on the freehub was intact. With the new bearings I was still getting that periodic skip which after another week got progressively worse. I cleaned and oiled the freehub to no avail. Then the freehub had a catastrophic failure. See pictures:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByFvPHQg1bRoQlFEMEktYlI4Y1k

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByFvPHQg1bRoQlFEMEktYlI4Y1k

Revmega was very responsive (within 10 minutes) and has sent me a replacement freehub. However, it has been 2 weeks and I have not received it yet.

When ordering my hubs I did purchase a spare freehub which I have been riding on for a week. So back to GuitsBoy...

After the second ride on the new freehub the skipping has returned and I immediately inspected the freehub. I noticed that one of the pawls was not springing back to full height and with the same force as the other ones. The spring appears to have deformed slightly so I salvaged the best one from my failed freehub. I also noticed that the blue retaining ring/spacer was cracked. It is made of very brittle plastic.

My assessment:
1.) I am not butt hurt over my experiences as I willingly took a change on an inexpensive hub. RevMega has provided excellent customer service for a mail order operation. However, in retrospect they have been almost as expensive than my previous BHS MTB270's if I account for the bearing upgrades.

2.) I am 165lbs., ride an Ragley mmmbop AM HT and ride somewhat aggressively. This includes 5-6' drops, regular sessions to the dirt jumps and street sessions around the house. So for me, it seems these hubs are just not up to the abuse.

3.) I believe that these hubs have great potential with some minor manufacturing tweaks. The ascetics and engagent/drag combo are impressive at this price point. Mainly, the pawl springs need to be more robust and the blue pawls retaining ring/spacer needs to be made out of a different material or better yet re-engineered.

4.) I have decided to go back to BHS MTB270 hubs which I just ordered. Fortunately, the WheelPro spoke calculator tells me that I can re-use the same spokes as the hub dimensions are close enough. I rode these hubs all last year on my Bandit 29er and they definitely took abuse from Pisgah, Moab, Downieville, Bellingham, Sedona.

Happy trails!


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

DudeDowne, what axle were you running? 12 x 142? Try sliding the thru axle through hub axle and see if theres excessive play. You might be able to reduce the axle flex by shimming the thru axle with whatever is on hand, that way the hub axle can use the strength of the T/A as well.

Sadly there's not much to do as far as the pawl springs. They look pretty generic though, perhaps they can be replaced with another make?

Or perhaps youve indeed found the upper limit to what these hubs can handle. I may pump out a good bit of torque due to my weight, but I certainly dont have AM trails like what youre riding. Good luck with it tough.


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## DudeDowne (Jun 18, 2012)

GuitsBoy said:


> DudeDowne, what axle were you running? 12 x 142? Try sliding the thru axle through hub axle and see if theres excessive play. You might be able to reduce the axle flex by shimming the thru axle with whatever is on hand, that way the hub axle can use the strength of the T/A as well.
> 
> Sadly there's not much to do as far as the pawl springs. They look pretty generic though, perhaps they can be replaced with another make?
> 
> Or perhaps youve indeed found the upper limit to what these hubs can handle. I may pump out a good bit of torque due to my weight, but I certainly dont have AM trails like what youre riding. Good luck with it tough.


I run 142x12. Agreed on ensuring thru axles are snug. This is why I do not run QR type and always use blue loctite.

In my case I am not convinced it was the "flexy" axle or the "weak" bearings. On my second free hub I was using SKF upgrades from day one.

I think that the way the free hub is only held in place against the drop out attributes to the problem. Basically on the drive side you have drop out, plastic end cap, hollow axle. All cinched together with the thru axle. As the rear triangle flexes the aforementioned pieces would certainly flex, especially under hard pedaling. Having an aluminum end cap that threads on the axle and secures the free hub would be a better system imho.

Once again, I would buy a set for casual xc type rider or my kids bikes. Let's hope Koozer will take feedback and can make incremental improvements that keep costs down and robustness up.

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## FreshWaterLake (Sep 29, 2012)

I have recently bought a Koozer rear hub too, took it apart and examine the axle diameter. This diameter of the axle is the same as the older generation Hope Pro 2 thru axle. (OD:15mm, ID:12mm, Aluminium shaft) It seems that this axle is not strong enough to do the job, causing flex and may snap over time with metal fatigue. Since I am using it as 135 QR, I am planning to stuff an reinforce axle (maybe a 12mm x 10mm x 125mm axle stainless steel hollow shaft) into the axle as reinforcement (as what GuitsBoy did). 
Oh, my blue retaining ring was split even as the hub is brand new, I think functionally, it still does the job even when broken. A steel washer ring should probably do a much better job though.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

FreshWaterLake said:


> I am planning to stuff an reinforce axle (maybe a 12mm x 10mm x 125mm axle stainless steel hollow shaft) into the axle as reinforcement (as what GuitsBoy did).


Cool, I have a couple hundred miles on this setup so far, and I dont see any gouging on the freehub body yet. Considering I'm squarely in clyde territory, I think the modifications are certainly helping. I used a Ti axle tube since it was all I could source on ebay. It took quite a bit of sanding to get it to fit. Not quite sure if the stock axle was undersized or the new tube was oversized. Since I dont have a lathe at home, I used a crappy drill press and some emery cloth to remove enough material to get it to fit. Stainless should be pretty stiff, but easier to work with if you need to remove some material as I did. It will be a slight weight penalty, but Id gladly add a few grams in exchange for a beefier hub. Good luck with your mods!


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Guitsboy can you post some pics of your modified axle? How much time did you spend getting it right to fit? I know a few machinists that I may be able to pull some strings with and see about doing a better axle but wondering if doing something like FreshWaterLake did and getting an axle from a different company (like HOPE) would add some rigidity to the axle.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Yeah, man. I keep meaning to snap a couple pics of it, but just haven't gotten around to it. But honestly there's not much to it that you cant visualize. Its simply a smaller tube inside the existing axle.

Here's the Ti tube I purchased:
1pcs Titanium Grade 2 GR 2 Tube OD 12mm x 10mm ID Wall 1mm Length 50cm | eBay

I spent about 30 - 45 minutes total spinning the tube in my drill press, and went through about 2-3 feet of 1" emery cloth before I could comfortably tap it through with a hammer.

A machinist could take off 1-2 thousandths in seconds on a lathe. My father happens to be a machinist, but figured it wasn't worth all the trouble, not to mention the few days in transit, to mail it to him. The drill press wound up working well enough.

If the hope axle is known to fit (ie. bearing width/spacing), then it may be an upgrade, but if its the same dimensions and thickness, it may not be much stronger than the koozer axle is.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

So if I am understanding you correctly you basically just put the axle on a drill and made it into a mini lathe? Then ran the emery cloth over it while it was spinning to bring down the OD?


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

guitsboy,

you custom made a Ti axle / shaft for koozer rear hub?

pictures please... insane build


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

About 50-75 miles in. Skf bearings already installed. My new 2016 black freehub is deforming at the pawls. 2 pawls are gritty, even after cleaning and lubing with slick honey. I can polish the pawls, but the aluminum deformation cant be fixed. The freehub is on its way out already and that explains the occasional skip under torque. Summer riding season is close, id be surprised if I'm not lacing up a new hub before season end.

My bhs hub must be 8 years old now. Still works like new.


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## FreshWaterLake (Sep 29, 2012)

Hi gregnash,

I like to clarify that hope pro 2 axle is not an equivalent replacement. The machining steps and pitching distance for bearings are most probably different between the 2 designs.
What I meant is that hope pro 2 didn't have axle problem with their 135mm QR version (due to the thicker axle wall diameter for their QR axle). The 12mm x 142mm version kept breaking because they had the same 15mm outer and 12mm inner diameter, just like the koozer hub axle. They were made too thin (1.5mm thick wall only). 

I think Koozer may solve the problem if they machined the axle with steel/stainless steel shaft, but then again, it's much more expensive and harder to machine steel axle. 
worse, hub won't sell when they are made so heavy this way.
They can easily solve QR version problem by making the axle wall thicker (or add a reinforcement shaft to the existing design) , meaning making the inner wall diameter smaller than 12mm, but this will make it NOT 12mm x 142mm compatible, which then, most modern bikes are now thru axle. 

I think the next step Koozer should do is to change the design to make the bearings bigger (heck, make even more POE ratchet gears with the increase hub diameter) and solve the problem long term, just like hope pro 2 changing to hope pro Evo.

I am sure its still a great hub for 135mm QR after adding the reinforcement shaft.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

gregnash said:


> So if I am understanding you correctly you basically just put the axle on a drill and made it into a mini lathe? Then ran the emery cloth over it while it was spinning to bring down the OD?


Yes, exactly. You have to do one side first, then flip it around in the chuck to get the other side too. I tried using a file as well, but I think the emery cloth worked better.



Forcemajeure said:


> guitsboy,
> 
> you custom made a Ti axle / shaft for koozer rear hub?
> 
> pictures please... insane build


I assure you, its nothing incredible.

I quickly snapped a couple photos this morning before heading to work, so I didnt have a chance to clean the dirt and dust. Pardon the filthy appearance. But at least you get the idea.

















The intermediate axle is simply an extra tube sitting inside the stock axle.









As you can see, I am finally getting some some tooth marks on the freehub body, so there is still some flex happening, however it is far less than my old freehub that was run without the extra intermediate axle. Over the weekend I rode 22 miles of relentless short steep hills, followed by downhill sections with sharp turns at the bottom, so I was hammering the shifting very hard. I put the 28T / 42T gearing to good work. Considering my weight and how abusive I was shifting I'm not surprised there are some freehub markings. But while the ridges can be felt, theyre not deep enough to catch your fingernail on, and they look worse in pictures than they actually are.









Here's the whole setup. I use a 10x135mm thru axle, and I drilled out the end caps accordingly. The blue tape on the thru axle is simply to shim the axle for a tighter fit through the titanium secondary axle, that way I can leverage the stiffness of the thru axle as well.

If you drill out the end caps for a 10x135 thru axle, make sure you drill them from the inside, as the drill will stay centered better that way. The part that sits in the dropout will simply pop off once youve drilled from behind it. My first pair of endcaps were drilled from out outside first, and the hole was off center, so learn from my mistakes.

The bearings you see are from "The Hub Doctor" on ebay. They are the ceramic hybrid bearings, and I believe they ran about $42 for the six of them. They are 2015 model hubs, and I have retrofitted a 2016 xD freehub to work with the older style. Revmega was able to send me a new style dust seal to get the 2016 freehub to work with the 2015 hub shell. The original endcaps worked just fine.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Forcemajeure said:


> it seems that LDCNC hubs and koozer is using the same bearing size for the free hub body, 15x26x7 or simply 15267, anyone knows where i can buy that kind of bearing? mine is still ok but for peace of mind it will be much better if i have a backup


Based on the size you quoted of 15mm x 26mm x 7mm. RWC or Enduro Seals has these in ceramic Hybrid bearings for $18/per bearing. May look to order a set as I just ordered the Koozer 12 x 142 rear tonight. :thumbsup:

Item: CH MR 1526 LLB

CERAMIC HYBRID BEARINGS BY ENDURO


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

A normal bearing is 5 dollars and works just as well. Maybe better.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Ok don't get me wrong.
But is all this hassle worth it?
I have been keeping an eye in these hubs for some time, as I have been taunting the idea of build a new wheelset.
And I love to mess with things, hell I service my forks, shocks, headset and hubs when I'm bored.
But is it really worth it to pay 60 bucks for a hub? And have to rebuild them from the get go and put some SKF bearings, there are even people putting ceramic bearings that worth more than the hub, and even after that the hub has flex and isn't very thrust worth.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Aglo said:


> Ok don't get me wrong.
> But is all this hassle worth it?
> I have been keeping an eye in these hubs for some time, as I have been taunting the idea of build a new wheelset.
> And I love to mess with things, hell I service my forks, shocks, headset and hubs when I'm bored.
> But is it really worth it to pay 60 bucks for a hub? And have to rebuild them from the get go and put some SKF bearings, there are even people putting ceramic bearings that worth more than the hub, and even after that the hub has flex and isn't very thrust worth.


You have valid concerns. This has proven to be a bit of an experiment for all of us, and has turned into an evolving project for sure. But its still a hard bargain to beat, even after the upgrades. And how good of a bargain really depends on your weight and riding style.

For me, my area consists of mainly singletrack, with no drops over 1-2 feet. Its relatively docile compared to what others ride. Considing my weight, stiffening teh axle was more important than the bearings. The Ti tube cost me $15 and is long enough to modify 3 to 4 rear hubs. I probably didnt need to swap out the bearings, at least not immediately, but I felt it was cheap insurance at the time.

So now, I have a 60 POE hubset with all ceramic hybrid bearings for a grand total of $140. That's hard to beat. The BHS hubs are $175 and the TPI bearings are probably slightly lower quality than SKF. If I eventually irreparably destroy the rear hub, I may re-lace a set of BHS hubs to my wheelset. But for now, these hubs are working quite well, and seem to be holding up to whatever I can throw at them.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah I am with GuitsBoy... I specifically bought these as a "toy" to teach myself how to build my own wheels. Figured that at $50-$60 for the rear by itself I could play with it and take my time building the wheels. The new, upgraded bearings just give me piece of mind that I touched it and did something to it that could possibly improve its longevity. I have found SKF bearing sets made for DT hubs that are sold on ebay for $15/pair so to me I could technically rebuild the hub with all new bearings for close to the cost of the hub. 

The axle flex thing is something to be aware of but is a variable that is a bit one off as GuitsBoy is the only one that has mentioned anything about it. Something that when I finish and start using them that I will be aware of. For now I have installed just the hub in the rear of my frame and tried to see if I could feel any noticeable play and felt nothing.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

gregnash said:


> The axle flex thing is something to be aware of but is a variable that is a bit one off as GuitsBoy is the only one that has mentioned anything about it. .


There's quite a few who mentioned axle flex before I did. The markings on the freehub have been attributed to both sloppy bearings as well as axle flex. If you see the freehub getting gouged up by the ratchet ring, you'd do well to take some kind of action. But again, it depends on your weight and riding style. A 230 pound gym rat that furiously mashes up the hillside will be far more susceptible than a 160 pounder that sits and spins.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

GuitsBoy said:


> There's quite a few who mentioned axle flex before I did. The markings on the freehub have been attributed to both sloppy bearings as well as axle flex. If you see the freehub getting gouged up by the ratchet ring, you'd do well to take some kind of action. But again, it depends on your weight and riding style. A 230 pound gym rat that furiously mashes up the hillside will be far more susceptible than a *160 pounder that sits and spins.*


LOL.... that last part made me giggle!

I think you are correct that, again, it is a variable to be aware of. I am probably on the higher end of the average rider weight at 180+ but still ride hard and on gnarly terrain. Again something to be aware of and keep an eye out for. 
Here is a link to the SKF (DT Swiss 240 set) bearings for $15 for the 6902
Here are the 15267
However, looking at my freehub the exterior bearing is a different one, want to say it was a 6801 but don't have it in front of me.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

If you are concerned about the reliability then pay the extra and get the BHS. If not the Koozers are 1/3 the price and replacement parts are pretty cheap. I think replacing the bearings straight off the bat is overkill unless you are getting them very cheaply. Just keep an eye on the freehub condition and replace when necessary.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

I learned a lot from this thread, will check for axle flex on my koozer, so far my koozer is only for road and light to medium trails, koozer been sitting for few months now, as i'm focused on road / hills with ldcnc and circus monkeys


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

The axle flex does suck, and its an issue. My freehub being smashed and deformed by the pawls is a failure of the hub though. Thats kind of a big deal.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

OK, I'm around 80Kg and I do some mash on uphills, mostly technical parts.
The high engagement is what made me take a notice on them, and I can get the SKF bearings locally on an industry supplier, but the flex make me have some doubts :/.
My frame is X12, so inserting a titanium sleeve is not an option, and machining an axle is absolutely not an option .
Until e decide to build the wheels I will keep an eye on this thread, and hope they fix the flex.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Aglo said:


> My frame is X12, so inserting a titanium sleeve is not an option, and machining an axle is absolutely not an option


As long as the 12mm thru axle fits snugly in the koozers's 12mm ID axle, then youre already leveraging the stiffness of the thru axle to strengthen the stock axle. If its not as snug as you'd like, try shimming it with metal shim stock tape, or even plastic. While I dont know the exact numbers, I suspect the QR hubs have a bigger problem with axle flex.


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## FreshWaterLake (Sep 29, 2012)

I have added 2 photos of the additional aluminium 6061 shaft reinforcement.
The shaft length is 125.60mm
Diameter is OD 12mm, ID 8mm
Let's see how well it hold up when the wheel is finally completed.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Nice! That looks awesome! Where did you source the tubing from? Or did you have it turned down by a machine shop?


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## FreshWaterLake (Sep 29, 2012)

I have a brother working in a machining shop. He custom made for me.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Something I find interesting about the freehub marring is that it mostly seems to occurs at a regular spacing corresponding to the ratchet ring. Mine has some more minor wear outside of these locations, but looking at the pictures posted in this thread the wear seems to be consistently at the same spacing. 

Obviously the marks are from the ratchet ring, but the fact that the ratchet ring is contacting the freehub at the same place every time suggests that it is mostly happening while the hub is engaged, not while freewheeling. If the ratchet ring was moving relative to the freehub when it contacts then the wear should be around the whole surface of the freehub, which hasn't been seen. I would have expected more axle deformation while freewheeling (drops, jumps, hard impacts, etc), not while pedaling.

Perhaps the bigger problem is something like undersized freehub bearings?


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

Chicken or the egg scenario. Is it the axle or bearing ? The 6902 should be sufficient bearing size. 
Had same issue with Stans 3.30 hub and it was definitely undersized bearing that blew up. 
SKF + Ti custom axle would make this hub great imo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

@cerebroside, in my opinion, the deformation is happening when youre mashing hard in your lowest gear, when the the chain tension and applied torque from the large cog is greatest. The chain is pulling the inner large cog towards the front of the bike, and bending the axle slightly towards the front, and pulling the freehub crooked due to the free play in bearings and axle clearances. When axle and free play deflection is severs enough, it makes contact with the teeth of the ratchet ring. Since there are only 72 positions for the freewheel to be in, youll likely see 72 markings around the freehub body. I'm sure theres plenty of axle deflection when landing drops and such, but the freehub is not being pulled cockeyed as it is when under load, and apparently thats just enough to make the difference between gouging, and floating along smoothly.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Could this also have something to do with fitment of the cassette to the Freehub body? For instance, when I changed over to my Praxis 11/40 rear cassette on my current wheels it was tight enough that I needed a rubber mallet to gently tap the first 3 rings on. Same was with my old 11/36 XT cassette on the same freehub. 

For those of you that have recently installed your cassette on a new(er) freehub did you notice if the cassette was on there firmly or did it just easily slide on? I also noticed a different part number on the exterior most bearing of the freehub that was completely different from the others on my 2016 version. Wondering if THAT version is using an undersized and cheaper bearing which would be causing issues. I will try to remember to post up number when I get home tonight from work. May even throw the old cassette on the hub just to see how fitment is.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

gregnash said:


> Could this also have something to do with fitment of the cassette to the Freehub body?


The marring in question is on the "hidden" side of the freehub body, where the pawls are, which slides into the hub shell. Cassettes gouging on the freehub spline are a common problem with aluminum freehubs, and its definitely cassette specific. Ive read other accounts of the praxxis fitting extremely tight, though I dont recall mine being anything out of the ordinary.

Anyway, I personally dont see much chance a loose or tight fitting cassette could cause ratchet ring gouging on the other side of the freehub. The bearing size issue however could be a contributing factor.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Ok so just checked and the exterior bearing is a 6201RS bearing while the inside is a 15267. So that could be something. I found that putting my old 11/36 XT 10spd cassette on it did have about 2mm worth of play. But that was without tightening down the cassette.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Are you sure its not a 6201 shield only and not two 15267s? Mine was.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

GuitsBoy said:


> @cerebroside, in my opinion, the deformation is happening when youre mashing hard in your lowest gear, when the the chain tension and applied torque from the large cog is greatest. The chain is pulling the inner large cog towards the front of the bike, and bending the axle slightly towards the front, and pulling the freehub crooked due to the free play in bearings and axle clearances. When axle and free play deflection is severs enough, it makes contact with the teeth of the ratchet ring. Since there are only 72 positions for the freewheel to be in, youll likely see 72 markings around the freehub body. I'm sure theres plenty of axle deflection when landing drops and such, but the freehub is not being pulled cockeyed as it is when under load, and apparently thats just enough to make the difference between gouging, and floating along smoothly.


I suppose it makes sense that stamping on the pedals could put more load on the hub than hitting drops/jumps/whatever (which I guess would be also blunted by tyres and suspension). Just a little counterintuitive when you get used to DH components being built burlier than XC.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

cerebroside said:


> I suppose it makes sense that stamping on the pedals could put more load on the hub than hitting drops/jumps/whatever (which I guess would be also blunted by tyres and suspension). Just a little counterintuitive when you get used to DH components being built burlier than XC.


DH components are indeed burlier. Think of jumps and drops as flexing both the freehub and hub shell together, where as mashing the pedals pulls the freehub crooked against the hub shell and ratchet ring.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

gregnash said:


> Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr


Thats exactly how mine looks. Its a 6201 shield only, behind it is a 15267 bearing.

They used a bearing shield as a hub dust cover. Good for smart cash saving I guess.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Ah ok... that makes sense. I have not gotten around to swapping the bearings yet as I need to build myself a small bearing press. Since I am taking my time doing this wheel build-up I am just going to go ahead and swap bearings.


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## drakche (Nov 8, 2012)

Hi guys, to chime in.

Second week on the koozers, and they feel pretty great.



The sound is really sweet, and I'm so loving the almost instant engagement.

Feels like fixed gear that can coast.

There is much less drag than on my old slx hubs and much less chain jumping.

I totally hot spoiled by the massive poe.

Feels amazing on climbs.

And would definitely recommend them to anybody.

Sent from my m2 note using Tapatalk


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Give it some more time and pull the freehub off to inspect it. After 2 weeks, its probably already damaged inside.


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## drakche (Nov 8, 2012)

One Pivot said:


> Give it some more time and pull the freehub off to inspect it. After 2 weeks, its probably already damaged inside.


Will do.

I'll have a check over soon.

Sent from my m2 note using Tapatalk


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## geekrunner (Sep 28, 2007)

Hi all! Just wanted to jump in. I just received what I though would be the Koozer HA02N/HA04N hubset, on eBay. 6 pawl, red, and convertible. My intention was to rebuild a wheelset I am using for a steel 29er that has drop bars and doubles as a CX/Light duty road bike. I'm reusing a set of rims that are in good shape for road use.

Surprises:

Bought from a US shipper, and it arrived in record time! They said by 08 June and it arrived today.

It came with conversion kit to do both QR and thru axle! I was only expecting QR.
The hubs came labeled as XM490, not the HA02N.

I weigh in at 185 lbs, 57 YO and way past my prime athletically so I don't think I am going to generate enough power to wreck these hubs. They look great and are way better than what I am currently running (crunchy loose ball bearing hub).

I could not find anything when searching XM490, it always results in HA02N search result. Could these be a re-branding/re-naming of the same hub?

Any input is helpful. I'll report on my build and test ride. If you need specs or pics, let me know.

Dave


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Did you get it from revmega? The part number doesn't really matter with Asian stuff. They'll toss out 10 part numbers for the same hub and sell it under different names.

Its not power that wrecks them. You'll still need to monitor the hub often for wear, and you'll likely find it.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Did a 1053 ft climb over 3.5 miles. Not rolling, lots of slow low gear grinding. Far from an epic ride but it was steep in some places.

Rear hub now makes a loud cracking noise. I'll pull it apart when its not 100f outside, but something went very wrong.

I'm very strongly recommending people pass on this hub. Go BHS instead even if it costs a little more.


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## DudeDowne (Jun 18, 2012)

One Pivot said:


> Did a 1053 ft climb over 3.5 miles. Not rolling, lots of slow low gear grinding. Far from an epic ride but it was steep in some places.
> 
> Rear hub now makes a loud cracking noise. I'll pull it apart when its not 100f outside, but something went very wrong.
> 
> I'm very strongly recommending people pass on this hub. Go BHS instead even if it costs a little more.


So I would guess that when you pull the freehub off you will find the blue plastic pawl retainer has shattered. This in turn will allow the pawls to explode in the hub shell. I have gone thru 2 freehubs. I believe that the design of the freehub simply "floating" in the hub shell, coupled with inexpexsive bearings and axle make for a flexy interface prone to failure.

I agree that, BHS hubs are more reliable as I have rebuilt this wheelset. The freehub is secured on the axle and while slightly more expensive, gives me peace of mind as my last wheelset was bullet proof.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

The blue plastic ring thing broke on the very first ride! Its a time bomb of a hub. Last time I checked I had freehub deformation from the pawls.

I have an original bitex hub, when they were still 48pt with the circle spring. Thing still looks new. This koozer is trashed in 1/10th of a season.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Looks like they had some bad design changes with the 2016 setup. Guess mine will be a pretty desk weight now. Haven't done anything with it and I do ride hard. Maybe I will build it up for the commuter bike, who knows maybe I will talk to revmega about returning as I really don't want something to explode on me after taking the time to build the wheel up.

Looking at actually going with something much better like a DT 350 with one of the star ratchet upgrades. The Taiwanese ones that I have on the bike currently (Moyon International) are still going strong but I have already run into an issue with sourcing a conversion kit for the front hub. Should something happen to the back hub (that already has 900 miles on it) I will probably be SOL. I know the BHS is good stuff but I want higher engagement hubs and looks like I will be paying for it too.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

something creeking up on my koozer, everytime i use 32t and 11t combo something creeks i pulled out the rear wheel and install it on a different bike, different chain, and same thing happens..

it could be the cogs or hubs, will have to check them out again


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

I've been using mine without the blue plastic ring. Does not seem to be an issue so far. 

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Revmega was able to give me a small bad of plastic rings for five bucks or so. Might be worth asking him. Wish the plastic wasn't so brittle. Maybe they can work on that.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

I think I took measurements of the blue ring when I was looking the hub over and doing initial measurements for a new wheel. I wonder if you could find a metal shim to replace? That coupled with new bearings may cause for a better hub.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

gregnash said:


> Looks like they had some bad design changes with the 2016 setup. Guess mine will be a pretty desk weight now. Haven't done anything with it and I do ride hard. Maybe I will build it up for the commuter bike, who knows maybe I will talk to revmega about returning as I really don't want something to explode on me after taking the time to build the wheel up.
> 
> Looking at actually going with something much better like a DT 350 with one of the star ratchet upgrades. The Taiwanese ones that I have on the bike currently (Moyon International) are still going strong but I have already run into an issue with sourcing a conversion kit for the front hub. Should something happen to the back hub (that already has 900 miles on it) I will probably be SOL. I know the BHS is good stuff but I want higher engagement hubs and looks like I will be paying for it too.


Bhs and dt top out at 54 poe. The standard dt upgrade is only 36pt. The dt 54t is pretty expensive!

I'm thinking about white ind. Hubs. They're only 48t, but it's bomb proof and very very nice.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

So I found I do have the measurements of the blue ring...
33mmx2.35mmx.60mm

And yeah the DT tops out at 54POE at an additional $100 for the kit on top of the hub.. Didnt realize that the BHS were 54POE as well, thought they were 36POE for some reason.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

One Pivot said:


> Give it some more time and pull the freehub off to inspect it. After 2 weeks, its probably already damaged inside.


lol! for real? Damaged after 2 weeks? sound pretty sh1tty to me at least.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

gregnash said:


> So I found I do have the measurements of the blue ring...
> 33mmx2.35mmx.60mm
> 
> And yeah the DT tops out at 54POE at an additional $100 for the kit on top of the hub.. Didnt realize that the BHS were 54POE as well, thought they were 36POE for some reason.


Hmm. Wondering if RWC would have something like this to replace the Koozer seal, along with the bearings. Considering just replacing this before any actual ride time on this rear hub. After that the hub will be a $100 hub with better internals....just hope the pawls hold up. Anyone here using a good hub grease, if so which one?


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## DudeDowne (Jun 18, 2012)

croakies said:


> I've been using mine without the blue plastic ring. Does not seem to be an issue so far.
> 
> Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


Just a suggestion based on my experiences....the blue plastic ring is what holds the pawls in place. The rubber seal is the only thing holding the free wheel in the hub shell and it is not a secure fit. Beware removing your wheel wheel as the free hub will fall off and pawls and springs will go everywhere. Kinda sucks if this happens during a trail side flat repair.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

car bone said:


> lol! for real? Damaged after 2 weeks? sound pretty sh1tty to me at least.


Hey, its $60! :lol:

Mine was a hub swap. I didn't need spokes or labor, and I have a million nipples hanging around.

I know not everyone builds wheels. Add in labor and spokes, some guys might be $200 into a hub swap, with a bike that they cant ride. That does suck.

I thought id reinforce the axle and maybe create myself a custom hub that's awesome. Its turning out to have more problems than an axle will fix.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Well my hub is still holding up pretty well, despite some slight freehub body markings. And I'm torquing and mashing the absolute hell out of it.

My lightweight buddy was not so lucky. He recently split the blue ring and spilled out the pawls and springs. Some of the springs got chewed up, and the few that remained seemed to have very little spring left in them. I lent him my old shimano freehub to use while he sorts out a repair or replacement for his original.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

So from what everyone is saying it seems the main issue is the blue ring causing pawl failure that ends up taking the entire hub, not just the freehub body. Is that correct? I am working with RevMega hoping that we can get some design changes done (at least make the blue ring out of metal so it retains the pawls better). At the price point, it is worth the extra $30 to dump all new bearings into (and Enduro or DT Swiss at that) if the freehub stops exploding and taking the hub all together. 

Other design note that I gave him was to make the end caps threaded or more secure somehow to help with flex.


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## DudeDowne (Jun 18, 2012)

gregnash said:


> So from what everyone is saying it seems the main issue is the blue ring causing pawl failure that ends up taking the entire hub, not just the freehub body. Is that correct? I am working with RevMega hoping that we can get some design changes done (at least make the blue ring out of metal so it retains the pawls better). At the price point, it is worth the extra $30 to dump all new bearings into (and Enduro or DT Swiss at that) if the freehub stops exploding and taking the hub all together.
> 
> Other design note that I gave him was to make the end caps threaded or more secure somehow to help with flex.


Greg,
I believe, as stated previously, that it is not just the brittle blue plastic pawl retaining ring is the root of the issue. I believe that because the free hub is not secured in the hub body by a preload axle end cap, this allows the freehub to move as the entire hub, axle and frame dropouts flex under load. This movement causes the brittle blue plastic ring to break, which then allows the pawls and springs to move. This is where we have catastrophic failure.

I believe that the flexy bearings/axle is a secondary issue but isn't the root cause. I replaced my second freehub's bearings before use and still experienced a failure within a week of riding.

I would love to see these issues worked out as the hubs do have potential for great value.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

While I would never argue against having threaded endcaps, as I think its a better design... I'm having difficulty visualizing how threaded endcaps would provide extra stiffness to the axle. A throughaxle or even a skewer should provide plenty of tension to keep the endcap from pulling away from the bearing. But I'm curious to hear your thoughts on why it could.

I'm almost embarrassed that I haven't checked this myself yet, but is there any chance the axle is just slightly too long, and the end caps are bottoming out before the bearings are snugged up?


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## DudeDowne (Jun 18, 2012)

GuitsBoy said:


> While I would never argue against having threaded endcaps, as I think its a better design... I'm having difficulty visualizing how threaded endcaps would provide extra stiffness to the axle. A throughaxle or even a skewer should provide plenty of tension to keep the endcap from pulling away from the bearing. But I'm curious to hear your thoughts on why it could.
> 
> I'm almost embarrassed that I haven't checked this myself yet, but is there any chance the axle is just slightly too long, and the end caps are bottoming out before the bearings are snugged up?


Greg,

simple matter of leverage....more force on the ends of the axle. That and the fact the freehub can move. In the current design, what is actually holding the freehub tight in the hub shell? The tightening of the thru axle to the frame does nothing. In my layman's eyes, it seems the weather seal is all that holds it in place. When you look at the space between the frame and your freehub that is an area that certainly would allow the freehub to flex independently of the hub body/axle. Threaded endcaps would keep the freehub snug against the hub body and perhaps it would minimize flex and the shattering of the blue plastic pawl retainer.

I am not an engineer but have spent some time looking at this hub trying to figure out why it keeps exploding.

When comparing BHS hub design to the Koozer, the freehub/pawl design is similar. Let's call this a tie. However, the leaf springs on the Koozer actually seem stronger as compared to the tiny coil springs on the BHS. Edge to Koozer here. Finally, both have somewhat "fragile" pawl retaining mechanisms. BHS has a wire loop and the Koozer has the brittle blue plastic ring. Tie here as well.

So when I compare these two hubs, both seem to have similar freehub designs, bearing quality, etc. (Note: I have read in user posts that BHS uses Enduro bearings. I have had two hubs and neither had Enduro bearings. The bearings have a red seal but are not Enduro.) In fact Koozer might have the edge due to the pawl leaf springs. The difference being a BHS freehub is secured by a threaded endcap.

Good luck on your quality control project!


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

DudeDowne said:


> Greg,


I think you were responding to me, but Greg is the other guy still left in this thread.

I have to strongly disagree with you when you say that the skewer or t/a does nothing to keep the freehub in place. The thru axle squeezes the frames dropouts together, compressing the entire stack of components between them. The T/A is pushed against the dropout, which pushes against the endcap, which pushes against the outer freehub bearing, then the freehub spacer, then the inner freehub bearing, the metal washer, the hub shell bearing, axle brearing stops, other hub shell bearing, other endcap, other dropout (or threaded nut). Everything in this stack is compressed together, and quite tightly I might add. The freehub is held against the hub shell by the force the endcap exerts, same as with a threaded endcap, except the force originates from the compression of the skewer or T/A, instead of a threaded axle.

And even if the skewer was super super loose, and there was barely any pressure exerted on the aforementioned stack of components, the freehub still shouldn't be pulled cockeyed, since it is centered around the axle, on which the hub is also centered around.

I think youre barking up the wrong tree with the endcaps, though I freely admit I would still prefer threaded endcaps if given a choice. I think the root of the matter comes down to two things: Sloppy tolerances, and a flexible axle.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Not sure if this will get me anywhere, but figured I give it a shot. Just emailed the seller of my hub and hoping it will wake someone (hub maker?) up over there in regards to the issues with the blue ring....


New message to: revmega
I just purchased this rear hub in 12 x 142. I am concerned about the blue plastic ring that secures the internal pawls. There have been reports (many) that the ring is brittle and prone to cracking and breaking, rendering the pawl mechanisms to come loose. Do you have a solution or better replacement rings available for my hub? I do not want to ride it and risk failure when I am far out on the trail. Please advise and much appreciated.


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## DudeDowne (Jun 18, 2012)

GuitsBoy said:


> I think you were responding to me, but Greg is the other guy still left in this thread.
> 
> I have to strongly disagree with you when you say that the skewer or t/a does nothing to keep the freehub in place. The thru axle squeezes the frames dropouts together, compressing the entire stack of components between them. The T/A is pushed against the dropout, which pushes against the endcap, which pushes against the outer freehub bearing, then the freehub spacer, then the inner freehub bearing, the metal washer, the hub shell bearing, axle brearing stops, other hub shell bearing, other endcap, other dropout (or threaded nut). Everything in this stack is compressed together, and quite tightly I might add. The freehub is held against the hub shell by the force the endcap exerts, same as with a threaded endcap, except the force originates from the compression of the skewer or T/A, instead of a threaded axle.
> 
> ...


Well I think we can agree on the fact that something is flexing causing the freehub to get cockeyed in the hub shell. I still think the end caps are a big part of the problem. However, I have no way to verify this conclusively. It may be that there is no "one" issue but rather the sum of all the components, bearings, axles, end caps.

Regardless, it was an interesting experiment to try these but I can see folks who don't build wheels themselves getting pretty frustrated at the time suck. As they say "Cheap, Light, Durable...pick two!"


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah I agree with you guys that it is more than likely the sum of a group of failed items; out of spec tolerances, crappy bearings, crappy axle body, inconsistent manufacturing, whathaveyou.

I think that Guitsboys point about the axle body being too long could be a good indicator. I was looking at my current wheel, which is a Taiwanese made Moyon hub and they use the same O-Ring lock type for the end caps. However, to get the end off I had to use a considerable amount more force than the end caps for the Koozers. I have even watched videos of guys disassembling Hope and DT Swiss hubs that have the same "compression" style end cap but the amount of force needed to get the cap off is considerable. Wondering if a new set of O-rings that are slightly large would help hold things in there????? I think I have a set of o-ring from harbor freight that I may see if I can find a match for the end caps. 

Past that, the installation of newer, better bearings may help. Now to find a metal shim that will be able to replace the blue pawl retainer. I am going to see if I can get some better measurements tonight.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

The bit about teh axle being too long means that the end caps would bottom out before they could apply pressure to the inner bearing races, leaving the bearings able to rock on the little bit of clearance required for a slip fit. Ill check mine out when I get home, but I suspect its pretty snug. I'm more interested in checking my buddies, who recently had his freehub spill its guts.

But I dont think the O rings do anything to hold the endcaps on, theyre just dust seals. The compressive force of the skewer or axle is far far greater. Though if the endcap has a tighter fit around the axle, thats a different story, and could help eliminate a source of play. 

The pawl retainer is an issue for sure. I would really like to find a better way to keep them in their home. 

The two are separate issues, but when the two issues converge, that seems to be when the hub destroys itself. Severe flex and deflection large enough for a pawl to work its way out of its home, and wedge itself between the ratchet ring and freehub body. Ewwwwww.

That being said, I'm working on 400 hard (for me) miles without anything more than some minor marring on the freehub body. Hope I didn't just jinx myself.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

One Pivot said:


> Hey, its $60! :lol:
> 
> Mine was a hub swap. I didn't need spokes or labor, and I have a million nipples hanging around.
> 
> ...


Yeah i get it its cheap crapola and what can you expect? I think slx hubs are great cheap hubs though. not high poe though.

I build wheels very seldom so i try to invest lots in all componencts that go into them and be assured its good and long lasting. Fuk i spent 6h yesterday building a rear wheel. It would have taken 6h with a sh1t hub too. So i just get good stuff from the starts and don't look back.
I just don't thinks its worth the time to bother with the cheap stuff since its always a gamble and the bank always win in the end...


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## FreshWaterLake (Sep 29, 2012)

GuitsBoy said:


> The bit about teh axle being too long means that the end caps would bottom out before they could apply pressure to the inner bearing races, leaving the bearings able to rock on the little bit of clearance required for a slip fit. Ill check mine out when I get home, but I suspect its pretty snug. I'm more interested in checking my buddies, who recently had his freehub spill its guts.
> 
> But I dont think the O rings do anything to hold the endcaps on, theyre just dust seals. The compressive force of the skewer or axle is far far greater. Though if the endcap has a tighter fit around the axle, thats a different story, and could help eliminate a source of play.
> 
> ...


My finding is the same as GuitsBoy. The hub failure is most probably only related to the flexing axle. Remember 3 weeks ago I added a shaft to strengthen the axle (I am using QR). Mine is still perfect. No damage at all.

My blue plastic retaining washer was broken since day 1 and there is no impact to cycling at all.

The original bearings in these hubs are Taiwanese bearings and they are reputable brand too.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

This is the most bizarre thread on this whole site. Many of you place no monetary value on your time, which is fine, it's your life. When my time involves long walks back to my car in my spd shoes, my rate goes up to $200 an hour, which buys me a decent hub. How was there any doubt that a $5 pos with MIM pawls and drive rings and a cast freehub would blow up? This supplier gives a bad name to many of the other chinese and Taiwanese suppliers that actually try to make a decent product.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Consider it an experiment, or a hobby even. Trying to stretch the most performance out of an inexpensive hub. Sure a few people have blown up this hub, but there are plenty who have not, especially the more casual riders among us. I hear what youre saying about the long walk back, and yes, there is risk involved, but for those on a limited bike budget for whatever the reason, its hard to find a similarly priced alternative that offers the same performance to dollar ratio, at least when the hub is working.

I may eventually go BHS hubs, but not before finding out just how much torque I can put through these things, after a few simple mods, before they finally give up the ghost. Thats part of the fun.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

92gli said:


> This is the most bizarre thread on this whole site. Many of you place no monetary value on your time, which is fine, it's your life. When my time involves long walks back to my car in my spd shoes, my rate goes up to $200 an hour, which buys me a decent hub. How was there any doubt that a $5 pos with MIM pawls and drive rings and a cast freehub would blow up? This supplier gives a bad name to many of the other chinese and Taiwanese suppliers that actually try to make a decent product.


If you're really placing monetary value on your hobby and free time, you're missing out. Theres a lot more to it than money.

I think ive put out a fair warning on this hub, but a little common sense goes a long way. Are you planning a 100 mile backcountry trip where you'll be miles away from any support? Yeah, skip this hub.

I bought it because I saw problems with it. :lol: Ive got a DT 240 hub, an SLX hub, and a old bitex with tons of miles on it. They're all proven and reliable. I also have 60 bucks and can put together a wheel in an hour. You're making it out like we're cutting off toes or something. Lacing up a hub real quick isnt exactly a high risk activity.

A lot of asian products can be slightly modified to be reliable, and they end up working amazing. Ill admit it, its not looking good for the koozer. Its got problems. Now that I understand how its failing, ill keep riding until it fails. When it goes, you can still ride it out. Wheels and modifying stuff is a hobby of mine, it was a fun experiment and im really out nothing.

It was worth a shot some good ideas were tossed around. If you need a reliable and cheap hub, just go pickup a bitex hub from BHS. I dont mind being a guinea pig, sometimes you win, sometimes you dont.


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

So, I built up a couple sets of wheels with the older hubs for my boys last winter. One is 50lbs, one is 75lbs. So far, they've held up for them, but this thread is a giant monkey on my back. Any precautions I can take without spending a lot? I'd prefer to replace them rather than put any significant money into them after this thread.


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## DudeDowne (Jun 18, 2012)

Erock503 said:


> So, I built up a couple sets of wheels with the older hubs for my boys last winter. One is 50lbs, one is 75lbs. So far, they've held up for them, but this thread is a giant monkey on my back. Any precautions I can take without spending a lot? I'd prefer to replace them rather than put any significant money into them after this thread.


Erock,
I had one freehub failure after about 1 month of riding. After reading this thread, I ordered SKF bearings for the entire hub and installed a new freehub. The replacement freehub lasted less than a couple rides before imploding.

My conclusion, was that "flexy" bearings are not the cause, so I wouldn't put more money into the hubs. I went back to the BHS MTB270 hub and was able to reuse my spokes and nipples since the dimensions are very close. Set me back about $110.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I don't think your boys have the weight or strength to torque the freehub hard enough to flex the axle and do any damage. I wouldn't worry about any issues in the next couple years, unless its a true defect. Its mostly gorillas or dowhill huckers having problems with the koozers. They have to hold up better than Walmart hubs, which is what I was riding at 75 pounds. That's awesome you're starting them off on real equipment so soon. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

Thanks guys, apprecrate the responses. I was thinking the same thing about the BHS, I built up a set on one of my bikes and they've been great. Great news if they are similar dimension. I guess all I can do is grease them and keep my fingers crossed.



GuitsBoy said:


> I don't think your boys have the weight or strength to torque the freehub hard enough to flex the axle and do any damage. I wouldn't worry about any issues in the next couple years, unless its a true defect. Its mostly gorillas or dowhill huckers having problems with the koozers. They have to hold up better than Walmart hubs, which is what I was riding at 75 pounds. That's awesome you're starting them off on real equipment so soon.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


Thanks man, yeah, I've got them setup pretty well. Both are zee 1x10 clutched systems with decent forks. The 20" is 21lbs and the 24" is 22lbs, a far cry from the 30+ they both weighed stock.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

So I randomly tried something tonight after thinking about the flex issue... and I think what I found was interesting. The drive side endcap does not slide completely on. I found that on mine the end cap has a "stop" step inside, grabbed the calipers and measured from the inside edge to that stop and came up with 11.4mm. Then I went and measured the exposed portion of the axle with the freehub installed and came up with the interesting part, it is BARELY 9.3mm and that is from the metal inner race of the bearing to the top of the exposed axle. So that could be part of the flex as some of you guys are feeling. Wondering if a couple mill longer axle on that side would add to the rigidity of the hub. 

And @ 92gli... like guitsboy said, consider it an experiment. While walking back to your vehicle sucks, that can happen with ANY brand. Been running a Moyon Taiwanese hub on my rear for over 2yrs now and it has been flawless, had a buddy that was running a King that imploded on him after a year. Price difference was considerable and the words coming from him were priceless on the walk back to the truck. But remember, not everyone has $200+ to drop on a single SMALL part for their bike, so we try to cut corners where we can. Sometimes there is a little extra engineering in those purchases that some of us enjoy. This is a hobby, something we do in our spare time and I bet the few that have these off their bikes because they imploded either have a spare rear or have enough funds and understanding that they can get themselves back up and running again.

And for the record... BHS is a cast freehub, so are a LARGE majority out there. There just seems to be some slight design flaws in this hub, that if they can be corrected offer a superb price to performance ROI.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Ok guys, how about this, why not try to use a solid steel thru axle instead of the hollow one made of aluminum.
It shouldn't be hard to get one, or make one, I think .

EDIT:Like this one, M12(12mm) A2 Stainless Steel Cap Screw, Hexagon Socket Allen Key Bolts | eBay, with a couple of washers and a nut it should do the job, I think.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

One Pivot said:


> If you're really placing monetary value on your hobby and free time, you're missing out. Theres a lot more to it than money.
> 
> I think ive put out a fair warning on this hub, but a little common sense goes a long way. Are you planning a 100 mile backcountry trip where you'll be miles away from any support? Yeah, skip this hub.
> 
> ...


So will you be trying out any more budget hubs in the future, just for fun?

Personally i wouldn't even bother to lace a rear up if I didn't know the hub was documented 110% rock solid and came HIGHLY recommended by everyone and their dogs. When I need to modify things at my free time i feel i'm missing out on overtime instead. I could have worked that hour overtime and gotten like 35-40€ instead. minus taxes of course. but still. when I build or machine things, it better be fuking worth it. imo.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

You're on an SLX hub which has a super shoddy reliability record! You'll take that same risk too! :lol:

I spent more than an hour and 60 bucks on dinner last night with my family... it cant all be about assigning a monetary value to time. Its not that outlandish to try a hub for 60 bucks. Its not like any of us took out a second mortgage to buy a few thousand of these things.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

One Pivot said:


> You're on an SLX hub which has a super shoddy reliability record! You'll take that same risk too! :lol:
> 
> I spent more than an hour and 60 bucks on dinner last night with my family... it cant all be about assigning a monetary value to time. Its not that outlandish to try a hub for 60 bucks. Its not like any of us took out a second mortgage to buy a few thousand of these things.


I'm not on slx'es even though i have at least 4-5 of them unbuilt. And for someone like 70kg they will be bombproof.

I'm on true precision and as of today dt 240 

I was given a sun ringle whatever hub, recent production, from a black flag wheelset i think. Researched it and not even gonna build it up even though it was for free. its just not worth the hassle (for me at least).


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Mine lasted over a year before one of the (original) freehub bearings exploded. Never had to walk out. I think I got my moneys worth out of it and don't regret trying it, though I'm probably going to replace it with a BHS MTB270 (which I was 'trying out' at the same time, somewhat more successfully). 

In terms of time expenditure it hasn't been a high maintenance component. If I didn't enjoy working on bike stuff maybe I would just pay more to buy expensive hubs and have them built up by someone else, but working on bike stuff is something I enjoy. I would definitely try another cheap, high engagement hub. Building up stuff and trying it out is fun.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

RevMega has been awesome in taking my questions and accepting my feedback. Hopefully he takes it to his mfg to try and better the design of the hubs as well as the QA.

I did find an arbor shim that meets the ID and thickness needs of the blue ring for all of $7 on amazon so will probably grab some of those (think it comes in a pack of 10 for the $7) to see how they work out. From there will be swapping out all the bearings when I get a chance. Loving the WTB i29 front with Formula hub, the new wheel feels great so will definitely be building up an i29 rear. If I could only figure out how to get the damn thing to seal tubeless.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Awesome work Mr. Nash. Please let us know how the steel shim rings work out for you.

I agree that Matt/RevMega has been great to deal with. He happily gave me some free repair parts (blue rings) when I ordered a backup freehub, otherwise he usually only charges for shipping. Regardless, he's been great to work with, and it's been very easy for me to get spare parts. Some even arriving in under a week.


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

gregnash said:


> RevMega has been awesome in taking my questions and accepting my feedback. Hopefully he takes it to his mfg to try and better the design of the hubs as well as the QA.
> 
> I did find an arbor shim that meets the ID and thickness needs of the blue ring for all of $7 on amazon so will probably grab some of those (think it comes in a pack of 10 for the $7) to see how they work out. From there will be swapping out all the bearings when I get a chance. Loving the WTB i29 front with Formula hub, the new wheel feels great so will definitely be building up an i29 rear. If I could only figure out how to get the damn thing to seal tubeless.


I just pulled mine apart this weekend and found the blue ring to be broken as well, let us know how the rings you ordered fit, as it sounds like this is going to be a common issue.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Thanks guys... I just ordered from Amazon so should have them by end of the week. Since I haven't built the hub up I will have to rely on one of you that has a broken blue ring to test for me, if it fits on my. Will post more once I get them.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Ok shims will be here on Friday so I will take an initial look to see if my measurements were correct. I talked with RevMega and apparently they are making some changes, didn't elude to whether purely cosmetic or not, but hopefully he has taken some of the information from here and reworked the hub.


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## beefsteak (Jun 24, 2016)

I saw that there are actually 2 versions of this Koozer hub. One is the normal 32H and the other is 24H straight pull. Do they both have the same blue ring problem? And have any of you bought the 24H XR1700 wheelset which comes with the hubs and got the same problem?


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

The blue ring might be the smallest problem. I'd expect the 24h hub to be identical.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

If I recall the 24h hub was a Chris king style star ratchet, but much less POE. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## beefsteak (Jun 24, 2016)

Need some advice. I'm wondering if I should just get the entry level Mavic Crossride wheelset or take a risk with Koozer.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

There's a million other, better options. Don't buy mavics!


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

beefsteak said:


> Need some advice. I'm wondering if I should just get the entry level Mavic Crossride wheelset or take a risk with Koozer.


If you are concerned about the Koozer then go with BHS... tried and true hub with great support. Lots of good have happened with the Koozer just seems that the 2016 version with the black freehub body has some issues. RevMega has been great in answering any questions I have and getting back to me in a timely manner.

Like I said though, talking with him earlier this week via eBay message he said they are making some changes to the hubs so looks like there may be a revised version coming out shortly.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Well no dice on the shims. While they are close ID there is about 1mm of play so they do not "click" in like the blue ring. Have not been able to find metric shins anywhere.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

So after some more discussion with RevMega I decided to return the hub, he was very gracious and understood. Since we had been exchange so much information he said to keep the hub and do what I want with it as he appreciated everything I had been telling him about.

Anyways, I took the hub apart over the weekend to do a couple of checks and here is what I came up with...
Axle length with caps on SHOULD be 142mm (+/- 1.5mm) and this is what I came up with
Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

So I decided to measure the axle itself.....
Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

Then I figured I would demonstrate what I was finding... The end cap on the drive side seemed to not be making full contact with the axle end. So I took a silver paint pen and marked the inside edge of the cap to see how much was showing. If you remember I was saying that it seemed that the end cap was not fully engaging the axle and was bottoming out on the metal race of the bearing. Well this is what that looks like..
Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

Hard to see in this one but you can tell there is a good 2mm of room from the inner lip of the end cap to the axle edge.
Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

What I am thinking is that this fact, along with the axle being too short and made of bad material has allowed the hub to flex under load. This starts with the blue ring cracking and breaking which then leads to the pawls detonating. If that does not happen, the flex is enough to cause uneven tension on the bearings, which are of unknown quality, and thus they detonate as well.

After getting the drive side setup properly, without the bearing, and installing then flipping over and installing the non-drive side cap you can see the difference in how things really are. Look between 10 and 11 o'clock at where the anodizing does not come into the bearing area and you will see the silver of the raw aluminum between the end cap (which is bottomed out on the axle end) and the end of the hub body. 
Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Thanks for digging in! I think that confirms a lot of things. Mainly, the hub itself is fundamentally flawed. Big time. Nothing except a new axle and new caps are going to fix that. 

Kinda explains my really nasty creak coming out of the hub too. Its all the pieces wobbling around metal to metal. 

On the plus side, if they can make a new axle and caps that actually fit, this COULD be a great hub.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Granted they should be able to do better than a 2 to 3 mm gap, but you certainly don't want the axle longer than the bearing stack. You need the inner bearing races and cups to be sandwiched together over a slightly floating axle. If the races we're not snug because the axle is too long, then there would be much more play, as much as the bearing clearances allow for.

But thanks very much for dissecting it and taking pics. Gives us all more info to digest.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Hopefully this is just something that was an oversight as it really does seem that it could be a good hub for the money. Couple extra MM for the axle length and that may fix a bunch of issues especially for us bigger mashers. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

I was shocked after I had my new rear wheel built with this hub. After I had the wheel all taped, sealant in and tire on, I did the usual wheel shake to get the sealant working around the tire. Well, while doing this my brand new Sunrace 11/42 cassette fell OFF the hub and bounced off the concrete. Not much holding this hub together when this happens? And this was after I properly secured and wrenched the cassette onto the hub....the hub just came apart from shaking the wheel to work in the sealant. Beware that the hub can easily open when NOT secured to your frame! :madman:


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah that is definitely not good NH Mtbiker....


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## DudeDowne (Jun 18, 2012)

NH Mtbiker said:


> I was shocked after I had my new rear wheel built with this hub. After I had the wheel all taped, sealant in and tire on, I did the usual wheel shake to get the sealant working around the tire. Well, while doing this my brand new Sunrace 11/42 cassette fell OFF the hub and bounced off the concrete. Not much holding this hub together when this happens? And this was after I properly secured and wrenched the cassette onto the hub....the hub just came apart from shaking the wheel to work in the sealant. Beware that the hub can easily open when NOT secured to your frame! :madman:


Yeah....i have been barking up this tree for a while. Threaded end caps would allow for less machining tolerances to maintain proper bearing preload and securing the freehub so it won't fall off.


GuitsBoy said:


> Granted they should be able to do better than a 2 to 3 mm gap, but you certainly don't want the axle longer than the bearing stack. You need the inner bearing races and cups to be sandwiched together over a slightly floating axle. If the races we're not snug because the axle is too long, then there would be much more play, as much as the bearing clearances allow for.
> 
> But thanks very much for dissecting it and taking pics. Gives us all more info to digest.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk





gregnash said:


> Hopefully this is just something that was an oversight as it really does seem that it could be a good hub for the money. Couple extra MM for the axle length and that may fix a bunch of issues especially for us bigger mashers.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

The QR version has threaded endcaps.


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## DudeDowne (Jun 18, 2012)

cerebroside said:


> The QR version has threaded endcaps.


You sure?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

DudeDowne said:


> You sure?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

@cerebroside What MY is your hub? Does it have the black freehub body?


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

do these come in 12x142 and 15x100 ?


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

My black 2016 definitely doesn't have threaded end caps in any configuration.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

spyghost said:


> do these come in 12x142 and 15x100 ?


You read the whole thread about these hubs breaking all over the place and still want one?

Yes, they come in 142.


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## beefsteak (Jun 24, 2016)

I think the 10x135 QR version should come with threaded end caps.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

gregnash said:


> @cerebroside What MY is your hub? Does it have the black freehub body?


Bought it in early 2015. Not the black freehub, the earlier one.

Interesting that they apparently changed to non threaded (if the later ones don't.)


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Lets see, you guys want - 
- correct tolerances
- threaded axles and end caps
- stronger axle material
- stronger freehub material
- better bearings
- more durable pawl fasteners

Then it could be "a good hub for the money". I'm sure the guy on ebay will address all these things and keep the price the same. LOL


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## drakche (Nov 8, 2012)

Almost 1000km on the old style threaded end caps hub.
I don't notice any flex or creaking. The freewheel has normal use markings of an alu freewheel.

Still didn't take it apart.

So far I'm really satisfied with it.

Last weekend I went on a marathon and it was trouble free. Even got a branch lodged between the cassette and the freewheel and blocking it. 

Removed it and finished the marathon trouble free.

Sent from my m2 note using Tapatalk


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

92gli said:


> Lets see, you guys want -
> - correct tolerances
> - threaded axles and end caps
> - stronger axle material
> ...


I've worked quite a bit with Asian manufacturers direct. Its not like American companies. They have no ego with their products and they'll basically do whatever you'll pay for. Its not far fetched to ask for changes and get them.

I had a whole order of hubs remachined for me. It was a small change, but they just did it with no questions. I was surprised.


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## blkangel (Aug 8, 2014)

I am about to start my experiment. I build my own wheels so the investment will be minimal. Going on my "C" bike. Going to reinforce the axle with a carbon fiber tube, I know others have used titanium and aluminum. 

I had to buy 4 tubes, 12mm od, 10mm id, each tube long enough to do at least 2 hubs. If anyone wants to do the same thing, and wants some carbon fiber tubing shoot me an IM. They fit in the existing axle perfectly, no additional sanding needed. just need to cut to length.

Can send you a tube for $8 shipped.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

anyone here with Koozer XR1600 hubs?


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## mk4 (Jul 16, 2016)

Hi,
I got mine as 135mm and it is "pressed" end caps. I believe that the threaded ones are 2015 model and the pressed ones are 2016.
Mine also has rubber seal that is designated as 6201RS but it just the seal for the freehub body. The actual bearings are 6902 and 15267 for the freehub body and another 6902 for the hub itself.
The blue ring was broken before I used the hub. The internal diameter where the ring is located is 28.5mm. It should be the ID of the ring. The OD of the ring is 33mm and it probably can be up to 36mm. Thickness is 0.65mm, give or take 0.1 mm it will work fine.
I know that the measurement that was taken here was different.

I bought it because the early posts were pretty positive about the hub. Now I not sure why bought this one and not Novatec.


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

Man I hate this thread. Just waiting for my 2 boys to be out riding with me and have their rear hubs grenade. Any indicators when they are about to go?


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

I've been abusing my thru axle rear hub for a little over a year now and it's held up great. I do have a little marring on the freehub and the blue plastic ring broke but neither has had an affect on performance. 

I do open it up once in a while to clean and put good quality dumondetech lube which may help. 

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah seems like the 2016 models (identified by the black free hub and pressed in caps) are really the issue and the 2015 seemed be great. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## beefsteak (Jun 24, 2016)

May I know how would I know if mine is the 2016 model without dismantling the hub?


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

gregnash said:


> Yeah seems like the 2016 models (identified by the black free hub and pressed in caps) are really the issue and the 2015 seemed be great.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Man, I hope you're right. I got both sets of hubs at the beginning of last winter, and was a bit bummed when I saw the newer versions. That would just be dumb luck if the older ones have less issues. Anyone having issues with the straight pull 24h hubs? So far they've been holding up, but my son is only 67lbs. We're there any changes to the xr1700 in 2016?


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## scyrway (Jul 21, 2016)

A new Star ratchet version was released. Seems exciting and may solve the issues you guys have described. I've put hundreds of miles on my first set of Koozers and now have a second. I have also preemptively replaced all the bearings with Enduro bearings.

Wish i could try these star ratchet ones out.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Glad to see they finally have a 32 hole version of the star ratchet freehub, but at only 28 PoE it forgoes the primary reason I went with the koozers in the first place. Still, I'd love to see how these hold up once people start putting them through their paces.


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## scyrway (Jul 21, 2016)

GuitsBoy said:


> Glad to see they finally have a 32 hole version of the star ratchet freehub, but at only 28 PoE it forgoes the primary reason I went with the koozers in the first place. Still, I'd love to see how these hold up once people start putting them through their paces.


Yea, that makes sense. However just from a durability standpoint these should be much less finicky. when you look at what the 6 pawl springs are made of they seem like the first failure point. Whereas this star ratchet, short of physical wear will last longer.

I'm also curious why they altered the taper of the hub body itself and went straight. Why is the front hub different. Is this a stronger or weaker design, I know too little about stress and structures.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Looks like there is a new version of the 72HD, called the RS390. Interesting about the ratchet design version and wondering if they could use the DT Swiss ratchet upgrades. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

gregnash said:


> Looks like there is a new version of the 72HD, called the RS390.


That looks like a road hub. No provision for a disk rotor.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

The star ratchet one has terrible engagement, and its not so affordable. That's a pretty tough sell.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

One Pivot - 
You were one of the unlucky few to destroy the rear hub, right? I've been meaning to ask what the actual cause of death was. Was repair as simple as buying a new freehub, or was the ratchet ring completely annihilated?


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

gregnash said:


> wondering if they could use the DT Swiss ratchet upgrades.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


No way. The one ratchet is fixed to the freehub (machined from the same piece or bonded? Bet it's bonded). Therefore, only the inner ratchet engages the drive ring and that single spring is the lifeblood of the whole hub. Given their stellar engineering practices, I'm just going to assume that the silver shoulder on the freehub rides on a plastic bushing behind the red seal on the hub body. I'll be shocked if they would spend an extra buck for a bearing that big.


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## beefsteak (Jun 24, 2016)

gregnash said:


> Looks like there is a new version of the 72HD, called the RS390. Interesting about the ratchet design version and wondering if they could use the DT Swiss ratchet upgrades.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


RS390 is a Road Hub.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

GuitsBoy said:


> One Pivot -
> You were one of the unlucky few to destroy the rear hub, right? I've been meaning to ask what the actual cause of death was. Was repair as simple as buying a new freehub, or was the ratchet ring completely annihilated?


Mines still limping along. It was significantly damaged in under 5 rides. 5-10 miles each.

Blue ring cracked. The pawls are increasing deforming the freehub itself. It now creaks constantly and loudly. It has skf and Enduro bearings.

I cant take the noise! I'm back on bitex/bhs. I can see its on its way out, and I'm not willing to risk it.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I just pulled the bearings out of my freehub today, and I can see exactly what you mean. There is deformation of the freehub directly under each of the six pawl pivot points. Its bulging inward towards where the bearing sits. It almost looks like stress fractures are developing. I fear I may be in the same boat as you, though its not making a terrible racket quite yet. I got about 300 miles out of this freehub, and at 32 bucks, its not horribly expensive to replace. But after a couple times, It's caught up to the price of the BHS/Bitex. I wish they'd make it out of steel, even if it takes a bit of a weight penalty, but steel is harder to cut, and would probably be a bit more expensive.

Anyway, I have some good size Ebates and Active Junky checks coming next month. I think I see a new pair of Bitex hubs in my future. 

All that being said, I still think the koozers make a fine hub for lighter weight riders. Maybe Ill grab a fresh freehub and put them on my wife's bike.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

I am torn between a hope or a BHS hub to replace my koozer hub. I did about 1000 kms on mine and decided to call it quits; the hubs are simply not up to "hard" riding. It got better after changing the freehub body and the bearings but it flexed so much that it ghost shifted in some gears when sprinting while standing. I thought at first that it was an adjustment issue or a frame problem so after fiddling with the adjustments unsuccessfully I tried to replicate the problem with another wheelset (xt hub) using the same cassette. I could not get it to ghost shift no matter how hard I tried

I then noticed it started getting draggy so decided to open it up. The blue ring was cracked, the freehub body was starting to deform (again) in the pawl notches and the spacer that sits between the bearings of freehub body and the hub shell had lost its shape and it was allowing the bearings to rub against each other, hence the drag.

Final verdict: I can only recommend this hub to light riders that do mild to light riding. I am in no way a very heavy or super strong rider, 170 lbs in birthday suit.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Hopes look better, and they're louder. BHS/bitex hubs have better engagement. I think they're both comparably reliable. Ive put heavier, parts destroying mashers on them without any problems. A black bitex hub just isnt the flashiest thing. 

Looks are a bit of a silly talking point about hubs, but thats all there really is to say. Bitex hubs are rock solid otherwise, the only real nitpick is how they look.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

One Pivot said:


> Hopes look better, and they're louder. BHS/bitex hubs have better engagement. I think they're both comparably reliable. Ive put heavier, parts destroying mashers on them without any problems. A black bitex hub just isnt the flashiest thing.
> 
> Looks are a bit of a silly talking point about hubs, but thats all there really is to say. Bitex hubs are rock solid otherwise, the only real nitpick is how they look.


Yes, the bitex hubs seem better on paper for all practical purposes. They are lighter, cheaper, have better engagement and seem to be sufficiently reliable. The only thing keeping me a bit undecided is the bling department, just like you mentioned, they sure are no fun to look at. I think im going to have to ignore my banal desires on this one. I will be ordering a bitex (bhs).


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

92gli said:


> No way. The one ratchet is fixed to the freehub (machined from the same piece or bonded? Bet it's bonded). Therefore, only the inner ratchet engages the drive ring and that single spring is the lifeblood of the whole hub. Given their stellar engineering practices, I'm just going to assume that the silver shoulder on the freehub rides on a plastic bushing behind the red seal on the hub body. I'll be shocked if they would spend an extra buck for a bearing that big.


shop listings do say there're 5 bearings in the rear hub (the new XM470)

in other news, ha02n/ha04n appear to have been renamed as XM490, but the design seems to be unchanged: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.15.ygDQSR&id=529734428012&ns=1&abbucket=12#detail


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## sethatx111 (Jul 2, 2012)

I just had Rear hub failure on wednesday 8/3/16.

check out my post 6 months review thread on bike mojo -

Ebay KOOZER hub upated review. 6 months later


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

sethatx111 said:


> I just had Rear hub failure on wednesday 8/3/16.
> 
> check out my post 6 months review thread on bike mojo -
> 
> Ebay KOOZER hub upated review. 6 months later


Ouch, thats pretty ugly. My guess is that the blue ring snapped and let the pawls slide out a little bit, putting diagonal pressure on the freehub body, until it finally couldn't take it. Koozer really needs to come up with more durable method pf pawl retention. But even with routine inspection to make sure the blue ring is intact, the freehub body is still too thin and prone to deformation. I found the bore the bearing sits in took on a hexagonal shape from the stresses the pawls placed inward on the freehub body. It looks like youve got the same thing going on.

If they could redesign the freehub, Find a way to beef up the freehub body, have better method of retaining the pawls, and maybe switch to coil springs rather than leaf, these hubs would be way stronger.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I don't believe the blue ring retains the pawls actually. I'm not sure its functional or does anything. I bet we could replace it with steel and see the same failure.

The pawls are smashing the freehub until it deforms and blows out the pawls. The hub needs bigger pawls and harder alloy on the freehub. 

I really believe it can not be fixed. Not blue rings, not axles or bearings. Its just designed to fail.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

One Pivot said:


> I don't believe the blue ring retains the pawls actually. I'm not sure its functional or does anything. I bet we could replace it with steel and see the same failure.
> 
> The pawls are smashing the freehub until it deforms and blows out the pawls. The hub needs bigger pawls and harder alloy on the freehub.
> 
> I really believe it can not be fixed. Not blue rings, not axles or bearings. Its just designed to fail.


Blue ring is definitely there to retain the pawls, or at least stop them sliding towards the NDS and contacting the hub body. Whether it would prevent freehub deformation if it was functional is another story (I'm guessing no).


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I have to agree with cerebroside that the blue ring is certainly there to keep the pawls in place. However when fully seated, the pawls can only realistically slide out about 1/16 inch or so before they contact the hub shell. But a 1/16 of an inch is probably a 20-25% of the overall width of the pawl, which is considerable. And once it starts sliding out, it could allow the pawls to go crooked, locking up the hub, or resulting in grenading.

But I agree with One Pivot that the root issue is that the freehub body is simply not strong enough, by way of either metallurgy or dimensionally.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

anyone tried adding up springs on koozer hubs?

happened to me once, i was looking for the other spring, after few minutes found out that the springs merged into one - creating a much thicker and crunchier spring, i pulled em out and install back originally

not sure what will happen if i install 2 ply of springs on each pawl


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Forcemajeure said:


> anyone tried adding up springs on koozer hubs?
> 
> happened to me once, i was looking for the other spring, after few minutes found out that the springs merged into one - creating a much thicker and crunchier spring, i pulled em out and install back originally
> 
> not sure what will happen if i install 2 ply of springs on each pawl


You'll get much more drag which is undesirable. Only reason to do this is if you're having issues with the springs getting warped or something. I've been running my rear for over two years now and it's still going strong. I know others have had issues but I ride my bike hard and I've had my cassette blow up while my hub still stays strong. I'm running the 142x12 version that was one of the first versions. Not sure if things have changed in quality since then. I did proactively change out the bearings about a year ago.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

my koozer is the 2015 version, light colored free hub body, not the black one

i also changed the bearings like twice, first with hch china bearings, not so good, then settled with ntn japan made bearings, now m planning to use my koozer for Single speed setup
not sure if koozer can take the challenge on uphil 32 x 14


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

torque at the cranks is divided by the gear ratio, not multiplied
14/32 would far likelier destroy your pawls and ratchet than 32/14


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Yes, on paper that's correct. But in practicality a SS rider will mash hard while a low geared bike will spin. If tire traction is the limiting factor for both, applied torque is roughly the same, but mashing will stress the components much more.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

SS puts less torque on the hub because people end up pushing them instead of riding them


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## capt.crispy (Nov 17, 2006)

Has anyone tried the ratchet style hub they have out (koozer). It looks like the axle is different on that one and of course the free hub design is different. Iam looking at buying a set but thought I would see if these were any better than the others they sell.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

i'm still waiting for a video about the new koozer ratchet hubs,

sold here for $USD 126


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

so far i'm still testing out my SS setup 32x15 this time, i can climb cat 4 and cat 3 climbs, will check the hubs first


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Forcemajeure said:


> so fat i'm still testing out my SS setup 32x15 this time, i can climb cat 4 and cat 3 climbs, will check the hubs first


What is a "cat 4 climb"? What does that mean?


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Bitex hubs are cheaper, have twice the engagement and have been proven reliable for many years. I really wouldn't bother. At best it's reliable, and still trails behind bitex in engagement. The gamble with their other hubs was worth taking for 72poe... That didn't pan out so well though.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

cheaper in the US, maybe, but that's distributors/resellers skewing the actual prices
In China, the new Koozers are 500 RMB and the Bitex are 800
and some of those sellers on Taobao do ship overseas, cheaply

the ratchet design also has one advantage over the pawls (torque capacity), which might be relevant for those of us who can break pawls with a push of their foot


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

i tried the piggy back spring method ( double spring ) indeed hub sound is much louder but my setup is on a single speed, not sure if this one will work with RD and cogs

hubs too tight and it will still spin freely but really different this time,

will try to do experiment by removing 2 pawls, will check if i'll get a different sound


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

If your hub lacks spring tension on the pawls, you'll crack or chip the pawls or ring and you'll feel slipping and grabbing. Its a similar failure to overgreasing or using very thick grease, but same result. I cant think of a hub that lacked spring tension off the top of my head.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

it does not lack spring tension, i just wanna play or do experiment on the koozer hubs,

- anyone with experience on the new ratchet koozer hubs?


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

chinese review for what it's worth, FM: ??????????????ECC S50-DT400????_????_????
somewhat comprehensible with google translate/chrome's help 

in case you feel that the asking price on ebay is a little too high to just take the plunge and see for yourself what these star ratchet hubs are all about...
I inquired with the manufacturer (ECC) @ alibaba and that's what they said:
j-bend hub set is $60, with MOQ of 10
straight-pull 28h version is $68
all end caps included I think
additional freehubs are $17 apiece
shipping to the US if $70 for the whole package

so, if you can convince 9 other people to jump in this boat with you... 

and the icing on the cake is this line from their sales person:
> If you can start the 10 pairs of E-801 hub sets with us, then my boss will send you 1 pair of E-601 hubs free as a gift for all your help!

e601 is the ha02n/ha04n hubs

killer deal, guys


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## capt.crispy (Nov 17, 2006)

bruto said:


> in case you feel that the asking price on ebay is a little too high to just take the plunge and see for yourself what these star ratchet hubs are all about...
> I inquired with the manufacturer (ECC) @ alibaba and that's what they said:
> j-bend hub set is $60, with MOQ of 10
> straight-pull 28h version is $68
> ...


Iam in, Any other takers? Ill put up the cash if anyone else wants some.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

they can also make you tools for removing/replacing the fixed (threaded) ratchet should anything happen to it
although I have no idea how it can be unthreaded considering the shape of ratchet teeth  but they said it's possible nonetheless


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## LasseB (Feb 16, 2008)

Hi, just a general warning about the standard 6 pawl 72poe koozer hub. Just had a one fail at me, the ratchet ring (pressed into the hub body) started slipping, making the hub totally worthless.
I would had accepted this as an anomaly from an otherwise great hub, pawls, ratchet teeth and springs look ok. But the thing is that a riding buddy had the exact same problem 6 months ago. Ring started slipping deep into the woods. No way to repair.
We are riding quite gnarly terrain, lots of torque while climbing, 1x10, 32x36 on 27,5.
I would had considered a warranty replacement and put my bet on the new ratchet drive version. But after repeated attempts to reach Revmega by mail and through Ebay with not one single answer I am now gving up and calling this hub and distributor a unicorn - It's just a fantasy. If you do hard AM riding it will eventually break and the day it does you will probably not get a warranty replacement.
If revmegas attitude changes I might drop an update here.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

fk revmega, buy directly from ECC
with spare parts and necessary tools


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## LasseB (Feb 16, 2008)

@bruto Care to share a link to ECC other than Alibaba?


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

not sure there is one
only seen them sold on aliababa and taobao (for more and no spare ratchets/tools offered)


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I too have moved on from my koozers, but I will say that revmega was always quite helpful and quick to send me repair parts. Perhaps he's on vacation or chinese holiday? Its probably a small enough organization where only the one guy is handling the ecommerce side of things.

Anyway, give it a couple of days and see if he responds, and if not, try once more before throwing up too much fuss. Hopefully he'll be able to help you out.


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## blkangel (Aug 8, 2014)

Note also that the hub is listed as a road/XC hub. But yeah we all know that any type of abuse at all implodes the hub.


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## LasseB (Feb 16, 2008)

@GuitsBoy
I sent my first question about the hub failure on sep 18. That's 3 weeks. Then 2 more since then through eBay and regular email. Is that too few or too many too soon? Trying to be transparent here, not throwing fuss, just being disappointed in a normal kind of human way.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

LasseB said:


> @GuitsBoy
> I sent my first question about the hub failure on sep 18. That's 3 weeks. Then 2 more since then through eBay and regular email. Is that too few or too many too soon? Trying to be transparent here, not throwing fuss, just being disappointed in a normal kind of human way.


Hmm, I really cant fault you on that. Sounds like you handled things well on your end. Sorry to hear your experience with revmega is a lot worse than my dealings with him have been. I hope you get some kind of resolution.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

GuitsBoy said:


> Hmm, I really cant fault you on that. Sounds like you handled things well on your end. Sorry to hear your experience with revmega is a lot worse than my dealings with him have been. I hope you get some kind of resolution.


As the complaints pile up, he stops responding to people. Not surprised. Bet that ebay account becomes "no longer a registered user" soon.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

October 1 to 7 is chinese holiday


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

capt.crispy said:


> Has anyone tried the ratchet style hub they have out (koozer). It looks like the axle is different on that one and of course the free hub design is different. Iam looking at buying a set but thought I would see if these were any better than the others they sell.


I am using the Koozer 72 POE hub. Would the 28T rachet hub be a big step down in POE?


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Yes. I'm not seeing the appeal in the new hub. The old one was unreliable, but at least it had 72poe. The new one just looks like it sucks!


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

One Pivot said:


> Yes. I'm not seeing the appeal in the new hub. The old one was unreliable, but at least it had 72poe. The new one just looks like it sucks!





One Pivot said:


> Yes. I'm not seeing the appeal in the new hub. The old one was unreliable, but at least it had 72poe. The new one just looks like it sucks!


Why do you say its unreliable? I have use mine for 18 months. Change the bearing once. I do agree the pawls spring is a little pain in the ass. The tiny springs do get flatten sometimes but I can easily strecth them back. But they are quite easy to service. I did try with grease and the did't work very well. So now i just put some fully synthetic motor oil from my car's leftover and the works well.


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## abevern (Apr 21, 2009)

lightning69 said:


> ...
> . I did try with grease and the did't work very well. So now i just put some fully synthetic motor oil from my car's leftover and the works well.


Be careful with this, I've tried using heavy motor oil previously on another brand hub. It is initially very good - but subsequently had the bearing contaminated as a result. I believe the motor oil either reacted with the bearing grease or washed it out. Either way - new bearings to dead bearings in record time.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

So what's the consensus on this hub? Pass it and go for the BHS 270? 

I'm looking to build up some flow mk3 for a 140mm FS. Sounds like the koozer won't live up to the beating they will receive. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

kikoraa said:


> So what's the consensus on this hub? Pass it and go for the BHS 270?


That would be my suggestion. I moved on to BHS hubs myself. Though I sold my koozer based wheelset to a lighter weight buddy, with a fresh freehub, and its been working quite well for him. Its hard for me to completely crap on the koozers when it never actually failed on me, but the stress fractures showed the freehub was well on its way at my weight. I would have had to replace the freehub every few hundred miles to keep it from taking the rest of the hub out with it.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

The problem with the koozer is lack of stiffness. The hub flexes with a good enough load and that causes all kinds of problems, from busted bearings, freehub body coming in contact with ratchet ring, pawls collapsing and finally total failure. 

My consensus: If you are a light rider (<140 lbs) and do mild riding without any jumps, drops or powering on punchy climbs, go for it. Anything else and it will fail eventually. I went with the bhs hub in the end. 

Cheers


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm 230 on a 140mm full suspension and I huck off anything that looks stupid... probabaly need to go with the bhs then 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

abelfonseca said:


> The problem with the koozer is lack of stiffness. The hub flexes with a good enough load and that causes all kinds of problems, from busted bearings, freehub body coming in contact with ratchet ring, pawls collapsing and finally total failure.
> 
> My consensus: If you are a light rider (<140 lbs) and do mild riding without any jumps, drops or powering on punchy climbs, go for it. Anything else and it will fail eventually. I went with the bhs hub in the end.
> 
> Cheers


Too bad the Koozer didn't work for you. I am 155lbs and ride moderate trail without jump or big drops and the Koozer is fine so far.

The main reason I still prefer Koozer hub is the 72 POE which is really nice. You just can't find any hub that offer 72 POE at USD60 only. And at this price I don't expect it to be as good as the CK.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

Look out for the new Novatecs too: Joy Industrial Co., Ltd. (NOVATEC HUBS 2017)
the F type freehub with 5 pawls appears to be of the "angry bees" kind


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

What's retail price on those novatec?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

no idea, but they're specced on a lot of 2017 bikes, if you google 'd462sb'
You could find one in the shop and spin the rear wheel to see if I'm wrong 

And then there're the 120POE Fastace and Chosen hubs - cheap enough if you can shop from China 
But the stronger among you could probably strip those pawls and ratchets if they aren't properly greased

UPD: here's another high POE (84) wheelset option if you're riding a 29er:
Bike Parts, Bike items in Ritchey store on eBay!
specs here: https://issuu.com/novatecwheels/docs/catalog_2015_novatec_wheels_web
(in short, flowtrail is 21mm internal width, diablo is 23mm)


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

Saw this in Taobao but not sure it will fit the Koozer hub. This parts is to convert the hub to 120 POE.


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## muths66 (Nov 17, 2016)

*link*



lightning69 said:


> Saw this in Taobao but not sure it will fit the Koozer hub. This parts is to convert the hub to 120 POE.
> 
> View attachment 1105752
> View attachment 1105753
> ...


can u send me the link to this taobao.


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

muths66 said:


> can u send me the link to this taobao.


https://world.taobao.com/item/530844856021.htm?spm=a312a.7700825.1997196601.48.05yNoX


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Does that ring actually have 120 teeth on it? The teeth dont look fine enough to me. Pretty scary if a 5 pawl freehub doesnt engage all 5 pawls at the same time! Maybe its a 60t ring, and the paws have two teeth? Interesting though, if it does indeed fit the koozers. Still, they need a better method of retaining the pawls, the blue plastic ring is destined for failure every time.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Just to give a suggestion, why don't replace the plastic ring with a metallic snap ring. They would outlast everything in that hub


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

GuitsBoy said:


> Does that ring actually have 120 teeth on it? The teeth dont look fine enough to me. Pretty scary if a 5 pawl freehub doesnt engage all 5 pawls at the same time! Maybe its a 60t ring, and the paws have two teeth? Interesting though, if it does indeed fit the koozers. Still, they need a better method of retaining the pawls, the blue plastic ring is destined for failure every time.


The ring don't have to be 120t. 3 pawls engage at once, and the other 3 is offset to engage halfway, making the POE 120.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

lightning69 said:


> The ring don't have to be 120t. 3 pawls engage at once, and the other 3 is offset to engage halfway, making the POE 120.


So then the 5 pawl one must be only 60 POE, since there's no good way to divide 5 by 2 as far as I know.


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## muths66 (Nov 17, 2016)

*pawl*



lightning69 said:


> The ring don't have to be 120t. 3 pawls engage at once, and the other 3 is offset to engage halfway, making the POE 120.


Is there anyways to to offset the other 3 pawls to engage halfway?


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

I don't know exactly how it works but here is an example...


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

This picture gives a clear view of how it works.


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## muths66 (Nov 17, 2016)

*pawl*



lightning69 said:


> This picture gives a clear view of how it works.
> View attachment 1105940


So if i file 4 pawls shorter by 1-2mm possible? to get more engagement.


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

muths66 said:


> So if i file 4 pawls shorter by 1-2mm possible? to get more engagement.


Technically yes, but can you ensure the pawls will engage properly?


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

Assuming their are 60 teeth on the ring and if all the pawls engage together, then it would be a 60 POE with separation of 6 deg.

Then when 3 pawls are set to engage first (yellow) and the other 3 pawls offset (green) in-between the 6 deg, then it effectively reduce the separation to 3 deg in between each engagement. So now the POE is 120.


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## muths66 (Nov 17, 2016)

lightning69 said:


> View attachment 1105990
> 
> 
> Assuming their are 60 teeth on the ring and if all the pawls engage together, then it would be a 60 POE with separation of 6 deg.
> ...


anyway how to take out koozer engagement teeth ring. ligthing69 the pictures u show me is what hub?


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

The picture is from Novatec D542 hub


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## Flinch (Feb 2, 2012)

Koozer rear hub - installed in late August on Mtn bike after upgrading bearings first. 1,500 road miles since then. Two months ago hub came apart and dropped one pawl into shell - no damage to hub fortunately. Just replaced hub yesterday with DT Swiss 240, and found that Koozer bearings are shot. No more cheap bike parts! Never going back...


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

There's a lot of good, cheap bike parts. Koozer hubs are not one of them.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Aglo said:


> Just to give a suggestion, why don't replace the plastic ring with a metallic snap ring. They would outlast everything in that hub


I attempted to do this but finding the proper sized shim that was the right ID and OD plus thickness to be able to pop under the little lip was next to impossible.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

not sure if i shared this one before

koozer 6 pawls sound check indoors










koozer 6 pawls versus circus monkey hdw3 3 pawls, sound check outdoor


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

koozer 6 pawls versus circus monkey hdw3 3 pawls, sound check outdoor


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## Goliath2 (Jul 29, 2010)

*Broken Koozer axle*

Thought I would share my Koozer experience. Got a 2015 hub that I have given moderate use over the last 1 to 2 yrs. XC type stuff on a 29er in QR format. Riding the other day the freehub stopped free wheeling and locked up. Rode it home with continuous peddling to find that the axle had snapped where the hub shell meets the freehub. 







Decided to check out another wheel I had built with a 2016 Koozer. Couldn't get the free hub off by hand. Had to jerry rig a slap hammer with a crescent whacking a partially installed outer few sprockets of the cassette. Once off I found the free hub had been deformed by the pawls indenting the body affecting bearing alignment. This hub had less than 20 hrs use also in QR format. i agree with earlier posts that the axle is flexy and eventually breaks. May not be such a problem if used with a thru axle. For what it's worth I don't think high POE is any practical advantage. I don't notice any real difference between the 72 POE Koozer and my 18 DT swiss (except my DT swiss still works).


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

One Pivot said:


> Bitex hubs are cheaper, have twice the engagement and have been proven reliable for many years. I really wouldn't bother. At best it's reliable, and still trails behind bitex in engagement. The gamble with their other hubs was worth taking for 72poe... That didn't pan out so well though.


I wouldn't say it's any better then any other hub. Main problems for me are aluminium axle and freehub.
I snapped the aluminium axle of my Bitex MTR12. Bitex sent me a new one but I use a steel one from Novatec 882 hub. Less flex.
And freehub shows some deformations near paws (after 1 year of heavy use).

Currently I'm shopping for XM470 and all google searches lead to this topic. So far I was not able to find any real reviews of this hub.

In few days after the Chinese new year ends I'll buy it.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

That one's axle isn't steel either
And the bearings don't look like 17mm ID: https://wholesaler.alibaba.com/product-detail/ECC-bicycle-parts-Star-Rachet-wheel_60430263491.html
If they're 15mm ID, then the axle is pretty thin-walled
You can ask the merchant you're planing to buy them from to make sure, though

I have a Novatec XDH42 here, taken from a Demon wheel I guess and it has 17mm OD axle and a nicer construction in general than 882/772/etc

84POE, too 
You can try finding yourself one of these (D642SB, XD602SB are the regular, non-DH, sized models) or just buy a whole wheelset (Novatec Diablo and Flowtrail wheels with these hubs are on sale at Bikewagon currently)


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

bruto said:


> That one's axle isn't steel either


I know. I was hope that it will be compatible with Novatec steel axle. But now after looking your link from alibaba I don't think so.



bruto said:


> And the bearings don't look like 17mm ID: https://wholesaler.alibaba.com/product-detail/ECC-bicycle-parts-Star-Rachet-wheel_60430263491.html
> If they're 15mm ID, then the axle is pretty thin-walled
> You can ask the merchant you're planing to buy them from to make sure, though


The bearings are 6902, 15mm ID. With the steel axle is seems to be ok.



bruto said:


> I have a Novatec XDH42 here, taken from a Demon wheel I guess and it has 17mm OD axle and a nicer construction in general than 882/772/etc
> 
> 84POE, too
> You can try finding yourself one of these (D642SB, XD602SB are the regular, non-DH, sized models) or just buy a whole wheelset (Novatec Diablo and Flowtrail wheels with these hubs are on sale at Bikewagon currently)


I don't see that Novatec hubs available for a good price. It's >$200 for set. Bitex/Koozer is ~$100 or less. Also Novatec doesn't provide any warranty if hubs are bought only from places like aliexpress/ebay. Probably in the US it's different but in the EU it's like that. I have good experience with Bitex warranty (better then Hope) and hope with Koozer will too.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

you won't need warranty of your axle never breaks 

and take a look at those Bikewagon's wheels (if 29er is your size)
a little over $300 shipped to EU for a wheelset - with these fancy hubs (xd601/602)


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

bruto said:


> you won't need warranty of your axle never breaks
> 
> and take a look at those Bikewagon's wheels (if 29er is your size)
> a little over $300 shipped to EU for a wheelset - with these fancy hubs (xd601/602)


The main reason I need a hub is that I have a pair of carbon rims laying around and I just want to built a spare set.

I don't know how did you find the link to the hub on alibaba.com. I never go any further then aliexpress.com for Chinese stuff.

So I went even deeper and found a $500 Chris King hub replica:

https://cnecc.en.alibaba.com/produc...ized_AL7075_T6_cnc_machined_bike_hub_mtb.html

It seems that's not available anywhere else. Definitely will try to get this one.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

if you ask for just 1 pair, it will cost quite a bit more than $100
prices they gave me (MOQ of 10 pairs) were $60 for E801 (aka Koozer XM470) and $112 for this "ring drive" thingie
Sure, you can get all spares/consumables with the hub for not a whole lot of extra money if you shop directly from ECC @ alibaba, but maybe there's a good reason they came up with E801/E803 models after this one (besides being able to produce them at a much lower cost)
maybe it's not that reliable?

If you want something exotic, try finding a way to shop at taobao - there're quite a few options there (Hubsmith, Ridea, Trigon, Chosen's silent hubs)
Not to mention sh!t like this: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...918993.LgDoRh&id=521254731767&_u=t2dmg8j26111 (was in stock before)


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## geekonabike (Jun 1, 2010)

Looks to be either or. I'm thinking if you had both the axles would likly swap???
KOOZER 72HD HA02N/HA04N Hubs CNC Aluminum 2+4 Bearing 32H Through Axle/QR Hub | eBay


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

I'm considering the 28t ratchet version for a new wheelset. Opinions?

The thing is, I can get inexpensive sub 300gr road hubsets from a bunch of sellers, last long time. But for some reason adding a 6 bolt disc capability bumps that up to 500gr+. A joytech set is like 800 grams, totally ridiculous.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

there're light hubsets for 6-bolt rotors too
novatec 411/412 & 771/772, Fastace DA16, etc., some Powerways
you can find their catalogs and check out weights if you want to
but, in general, CL flange is lighter than 6-bolt and straight pull ones are lighter than j-bend simply due to the amount of material required


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## anc67 (Mar 29, 2006)

Just wondering if any one has tried out the new star ratchet system XM470? Looking at buying just curious about the feel and durability


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

That's the same question I asked two posts up.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Dont think anyone has due to the quality issues that were seeing with the last version of the XM490 and the fact that this one literally came out in October/November timeframe.


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## beefsteak (Jun 24, 2016)

I've emailed the company that produced the hubs and they said that they are currently making the boost hubs. But it will take about 2 months to be released.
Some good news there.


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## Sucic (Apr 7, 2017)

Anyone having any updates on the 2017 hubs? Have they improved? Im considerig to buy them because i like the sound but im pretty tight on a budget. Currently im running an x9 hub with Mavic ex721 rim. I like to go a little bit rough because im a 100 kg rider and i like to go down stairs, little jumps(not bigger than 1,5 m) and some xc trails. So would the hub be able to hold on that style of riding? Sorry for my bad english :/


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

everyone's still considering
people are willing to be adventurous with $400 Chinese frames, but not with $100 hubs, apparently


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

After destroying my rear hub, I'm in the look for a new one.
Also I don't want to spent 300$ on a new one, so I came check if they have improved, but I'm not wasting 100$ in something that has this kind of record.
And yes, I ride a pair of Chinese hoops 😅.
But you can choose a Chinese vendor with a good track record, but this is not the case on this hubs.
So I'm just ogling a DT Swiss 350 for 130€.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

ruined how?
chances are, novatec 882 with a steel axle would carry your heavier-than-average ass off small drops just fine as well


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

A bunch of us already took the risk and ended up with broken hubs. This is a junk brand. A SLX hub is $35 and drastically higher quality. Bitex is about the same price and higher quality. A hub isn't too cheap after you factor in new axles and bearings to keep it from exploding.


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

One Pivot is right, and I did look at Shimano hubs. But if I factor in the price of new spokes, the price come close to more expensive hubs, with similar flanges to my old hub.

So, the moral is, don't waste your money in this crap hubs. Just buy something worth your money.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

just want to point out that this is a different model with an entirely different engagement mechanism
it can't break in the same way the 6-pawl koozers broke

you don't know what modes of failure it might have, because none of you rode the new hubs  please save your negativity until someone actually buys one, rides one and it breaks due to a manufacturing/design defect


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## Sucic (Apr 7, 2017)

You are talking about the xm470?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Sucic said:


> You are talking about the xm470?


Yeah he is talking about the XM470 which has the ratchet system like a DT Swiss 350 vs. the spring and pawl system of the XM490. While I somewhat agree with Bruto, the hub is about 2/3rd the cost of a new BITEX/BHS rear hub with a spring and pawl system, 54POE and has been shown to be super reliable (one guy compared it to a chevy sbc 350 engine which is pretty true, no frills just dead reliable and serviceable). At that rate you would be better off spending the money on the slightly higher costing hub.

While this isnt really comparing apples to apples with both of RevMega's (Koozers) hubs, it is probably safe to say that it will not be all that great. Good thing about these hubs though is they use pretty standard flange dimensions so, like the XM490, they have similar dimensions as HOPE, Bitex, BHS, DT Swiss to the point where if it detonated within a short period of time you could fairly easily replace with one of the above mentioned without having to purchase new spokes.


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## Sucic (Apr 7, 2017)

I will go with the xm470 then


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I think most of us took the risk due to 72poe. Knock that down to 24 poe, and what's the point? We already know the brand makes low quality part, remove the allure of high Poe and there's not much left.

Ring drive doesn't fix quality issues with axels and bearings.


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## Sucic (Apr 7, 2017)

One Pivot said:


> I think most of us took the risk due to 72poe. Knock that down to 24 poe, and what's the point? We already know the brand makes low quality part, remove the allure of high Poe and there's not much left.
> 
> Ring drive doesn't fix quality issues with axels and bearings.


Yeah, but obviously the rachet sistem is better then the 6 pawls. When the time comes, replace the bearings and smash it again. I red that the axle flex has sth to do with the low quality bearings, so replace them and you fixed your problem. I just wanna a loud and reliable hub thats under 100$


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## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

bruto said:


> just want to point out that this is a different model with an entirely different engagement mechanism
> it can't break in the same way the 6-pawl koozers broke
> 
> you don't know what modes of failure it might have, because none of you rode the new hubs  please save your negativity until someone actually buys one, rides one and it breaks due to a manufacturing/design defect


You are right, and I will concede that the XM470 design seems to be more durable than the XM490.
But they are made from the same company that have a crap track record in axle flex, and if the axle flex in the XM470 it will explode all the same, a crap track record in bearings, and a crap track record in details like plastic parts that brake and axles that snap.

I would much rather spent 130€ in a Dt 350 with 18t ratchet, or 160€ in a Dt 350 with 36t ratchet or 160€ in Dt 240s with 18t ratchet, instead of spend 75€ plus new bearings in two months and probably something more in this new hub.

Am I being negative? Yes I am.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

axle flex likely has sth to do with thickness of said axle
new(ish) novatecs (d542sb/xd602 - different models, actually, but the same engagement mechanism) have 17mm rear axle, by the way
and lots of POE
and a better than average freehub seal

can be had on ebay for $118


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

track record you're speaking of is 1 faulty hub model out of 1
ECC E601 AKA Koozer XM470 was their first product to market
it's a new manufacturer, they now make 4 models so it's bound to improve

if you botched something on first attempt, you'd likely have objections to someone writing you off completely on that account


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

bruto said:


> axle flex likely has sth to do with thickness of said axle
> new(ish) novatecs (d542sb/xd602 - different models, actually, but the same engagement mechanism) have 17mm rear axle, by the way
> and lots of POE
> and a better than average freehub seal
> ...


And the BHS MTB270 with the Anti-bite system costs $124 shipped or $109 with the standard non anti-bite freehub in a couple different colors and either 28 or 32 hole.

Believe me I purchased one of the XM490 with the allure of cheap high POE but then as I did my own QC on the hub after getting it (see a couple pages back) you can just tell things are not up to snuff with how they do their work/machining. If you want to take the plunge on the ratchet drive system then go for it and give us some feedback. We will keep our fingers crossed for you that it works out well.

At this point I have not invested in the KOOZER XM490 that I bought and I will more than likely never lace it up (unless I need for a super easy riding bike like my commuter) or unless someone offers me money for it. They go for $70 new from ebay, I would take half that plus shipping and call it a win/win.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

I would have bought them when they first came out if I didn't already have 3 wheelsets


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## Sucic (Apr 7, 2017)

Fck it now. I really wanted to buy them cuz i saw a lot of positive comments, and now im a little sceptic. I would give 130$ max, and now im so confused that i don't know what to buy. Like i said im searching for a loud and reliable hub. It seems that there is nothing like that in that price range :/


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

loudness is a function of springs
you can replace stock ones with stronger versions if you really want to be heard from miles away
and use less grease


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## Spoker (Apr 8, 2017)

I wonder if the whole durability issues are not rider weight related. At < 170 lbs, and just 2 years of hard use , I can say the 72 point Koozer is the nicest hub I ever rode.
I broke several other hubs in the past always on the cassette / pawl interface.
Keeping fingers crossed. Would love to try the new ratched hub.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Would really like to see a better view of the guts of the ratchet hub. what I can see doesn't make sense. Don't see any springs.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

at least the hub body ratchet appears to be spring loaded:
https://fastpic.ru/view/85/2016/1029/33a989fa4a62117199905839a8884be5.jpg.html
https://fastpic.ru/view/83/2016/1029/4d6987136e7150e077123a1dd25bec51.jpg.html
https://fastpic.ru/view/83/2016/1029/85775647e301fd0c33c74be8c126903b.jpg.html


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

bruto said:


> at least the hub body ratchet appears to be spring loaded:
> ???????? ???????????? ??????????? / ????????? ???? ? FastPic
> ???????? ???????????? ??????????? / ????????? ???? ? FastPic
> ???????? ???????????? ??????????? / ????????? ???? ? FastPic


Need to see the inner ratchet removed to verify how it engages the hub body. But what I can see is totally craptastic. This actually looks a lot worse than their interpretation of a high engagement pawl hub.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

it has 3 or 6 tabs (saw the photos, forgot) that go into slots in the hub body
basically, the same as DT - cog sliding back and forth in a slot, but fewer teeth


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## Sucic (Apr 7, 2017)

So noone had a failure with the xm470 yet?


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Sucic said:


> So noone had a failure with the xm470 yet?


Dont think it is necessarily that, it is that no one on here has purchased one.


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## Sucic (Apr 7, 2017)

Everyone are saying that RevMega is a great man, he responds on messages quickly, he ships things immediately and so on. I paid for the hub on April 8th and it is still not shipped. I also sent him a message that was about changing my hub color before he ships the hub, and he still did not respond...


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

All we can do is give you our experiences with the guy. We can guarantee youll have the same luck. Maybe he's on vacation? Sick for a few days? Family issue? Building a bomb shelter amid mounting tensions with china with regards to the korean peninsula?


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## Poopshute (Mar 25, 2010)

Sucic said:


> Everyone are saying that RevMega is a great man, he responds on messages quickly, he ships things immediately and so on. I paid for the hub on April 8th and it is still not shipped. I also sent him a message that was about changing my hub color before he ships the hub, and he still did not respond...


Try his e-mail address:

[email protected]


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## Sucic (Apr 7, 2017)

Poopshute said:


> Try his e-mail address:
> 
> [email protected]


Thanks for the effort, he answered. He apologized for the delayed shipping


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## Sucic (Apr 7, 2017)

Quick update on the hub if someone is interested. I rode it for like 400km and trashed it pretty hard. Im a 100 kg rider and i rode some trails and steps in the city(approx. 25-30 steps high/big idk how to say it i hope you understand). I opened the hub when it came to degrease it, and i opened it now and it is still perfectly fine, spins freely, it has no play and the rachet looks also good.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Cool, which hub was it? the xm470?


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## Sucic (Apr 7, 2017)

GuitsBoy said:


> Cool, which hub was it? the xm470?


Yes


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

I have been using Koozer hub for mire than 2 years now and am very happy with it. I just replace all the pawls and springs last week for a couple of bucks and they are like brand new. 

I am 70kg heavy and not exactly an aggressive rider. I do regular service every couple of months by opening up the hub and clean the pawls and springs and then grease them with my fully synthetic engine oil leftover from my car service. I have replaced the bearings once. So far besides these maintenance I done on the hub, there is really not much problem at all. They are not the best hubs but for the price, I am really happy with it.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

I think the problem surfaced when changes were made for the Model Year (MY) 2016 version of the 6pawl design. Seems like that was when people started having lots of issues with them. Prior to that it seemed to be doing perfectly fine, little tweaks here and there and cost cutting can change a lot.


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

I am thinking of replacing my KOOZER HA02N/HA04N with the XM490 if my current one fail one day. The reason I would go back to Koozer is that price and its easy to find replacement parts. The bearings are standard bearing which I can easily replace with SKF bearings, and I still got 2 sets of new palws and spring which I bought online from Taobao.com

Is there any other reliable brand that offer 72 POE of better. I have been trying to find a similar price hub that offers 72 poe but looks like there are not many.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

chosen and fastace make 120 POE hubs  but that makes them grease/contaminant sensitive
Chosen even suplies a small tube of their own grease with those (chain-l works just as well)


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

bruto said:


> chosen and fastace make 120 POE hubs  but that makes them grease/contaminant sensitive
> Chosen even suplies a small tube of their own grease with those (chain-l works just as well)


They make them mostly of QR. I can't seem to find those with 12x142mm tru-axle


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

fastaces are convertible (da20, da07)


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Sucic said:


> Quick update on the hub if someone is interested. I rode it for like 400km and trashed it pretty hard. Im a 100 kg rider and i rode some trails and steps in the city(approx. 25-30 steps high/big idk how to say it i hope you understand). I opened the hub when it came to degrease it, and i opened it now and it is still perfectly fine, spins freely, it has no play and the rachet looks also good.


Could you clarify?

Sentence #2 "I rode it for like 400 km and trashed it pretty hard."

Sentence #4 "I opened it now and it still looks perfectly fine"

Which is it? One sentence leads me to believe you broke it, the other says it's fine.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

I think he means THRASHED it pretty hard.. meaning he put it through its paces and it came out ok.. 
I think he means that he pulled the freehub body off and the grease and everything looks to be in good shape. 
Have a feeling that english isn't his first language.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I apologize if I'm incorrect, but English may not be his native language.

I think he means that he beat on it pretty hard for 400 km, but it still looks good. Not that its trashed.



gregnash said:


> I think he means THRASHED it pretty hard.. meaning he put it through its paces and it came out ok..
> I think he means that he pulled the freehub body off and the grease and everything looks to be in good shape.
> Have a feeling that english isn't his first language.


UGGGH. You beat me by 15 seconds!!!


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

I'm not judging for ESL, I thought that too. Your opinion was what I was leaning toward, but wanted to make sure I had it right. 
I ask because I'm considering building new plus wheels and trying to decide if the extra $75 is justified for Bitex hubs ($175/pr at BHS) over the Koozer hubs ($100/pr on eBay). 

The other option is to de-lace my Hadleys currently in service and re-lace them to i40 rims, and only have one set of wheels.


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## lightning69 (Mar 16, 2015)

bruto said:


> fastaces are convertible (da20, da07)


Thanks for the info.

I have check out the Fastace DA20. The price is twice of Koozer. Are they a lot better? Anyone here try it out before?


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

they go for 700 RMB ($100) a pair in China
https://s.taobao.com/search?_tb_token_=5f1fe3a713476&q=fastace+da20+花鼓&spm=
you can look for middlemen services that can help you shop there, they have to exist

and I have a pair of DA07 (same internals as DA20 I think, just different hub shell)
they're fine and buzzy and the front hub end caps do not have any seals but that hasn't been a problem yet  they do spin great because of that!
the rear hub has all the required seals, they're dual-lip rather than o-rings


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

KT (also known as Quanda/Quando, O-lite/Q-lai, Nukeproof) got the high POE bug too, apparently: https://issuu.com/artfile/docs/2018kt_cat-view_3f8149d4485769
Small tooth sping-loaded pawls look quite similar to Fastace
These're inexpensive in China as well


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Is anyone interested in buying one these? I have a slightly used 12x142 rear disc hub that came off a very short term wheel that was disassembled. One of the inner sealed bearing covers came loose on this hub, but could easily be replaced. Have it available now - $40, still like new. PM me if interested.


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

I'm about to swap my QR frame for one with a 12x142; the older (2015) Koozer QR rear has held up pretty good, is it worth swapping it with the 12x142 model, or does the 12x142 still have issues?

Edit: I just noticed that he is stating in his adds that the new hubs are an updated version made in Taiwan, any chance the quality has been improved since the previous unreliable batch?


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

who says they're made in Taiwan?
these koozers are made by ECC: https://cnecc.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html


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## FreshWaterLake (Sep 29, 2012)

FreshWaterLake said:


> I have added 2 photos of the additional aluminium 6061 shaft reinforcement.
> The shaft length is 125.60mm
> Diameter is OD 12mm, ID 8mm
> Let's see how well it hold up when the wheel is finally completed.


I am happy to report after 1 year of weekly riding, everything still hold up well with the reinforced axle. The reason for a Koozer hub failure was the weak aluminium axle. This was the root cause. Older model had threaded end cap to keep the main axle from flexing too much. Those model last longer too.

But, Koozer hub simply need design a stronger axle.
Hope had already learnt that lesson in the original Hope Pro II episode.


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

bruto said:


> who says they're made in Taiwan?
> these koozers are made by ECC: https://cnecc.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html


Directly from Revmega (now rbn.hk):
KOOZER XM490 HA02N/04N 6 Pawls 72HD Bicycle Hub Disc Bearing 32H Front&Rear MTB | eBay

Given the inconsistencies and tendency for Chinese stuff to be directly copied and branded, I would not buy them from anyone else.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I doubt anyone is knocking off koozers. And if they are, it might be worth trying. Maybe it would last longer!


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

please ask him about ECC
the statement about them being manufactured in TW is either BS or a surprise


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

One Pivot said:


> I doubt anyone is knocking off koozers. And if they are, it might be worth trying. Maybe it would last longer!


You'd be surprised then, these Chinese companies rip each other off probably more than they rip of the bigger brands. Some of the most well know examples are Ultrafire flashlights and the SJCAM action cameras (similar to GoPro); it is sometimes difficult to tell the "real" ones from the fake ones... and it matters.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

In this case, the real one fails in as little as a few rides, so a knock off might be the way to go. The real ultrafire batteries were awesome! I still have a few. I can see why those were so heavily knocked off, but I assure you this isn't the case with koozers.

I've only put ~20 more miles on my koozers since noticing the damage. I pulled it apart today, and the grease is black, in 20 dry miles. Something is now grinding apart on the freehub body im guessing.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

It's a blanket statement, sometimes true (but not as often as you'd think)
However, Revmega/Reborn (owner of the Koozer brand - see About us | REBORN INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT LIMITED ) is a trading company - they don't make sh!t
The only names these hubs can be found under are ECC and Koozer and they look exactly alike, save for the labels
Considering the former has a site with actual mention of manufacturing facilities and the other doesn't, my bet is that Koozer is just a sticker put on someone else's goods by Reborn
On the other hand, it is also possible that these hubs were originally designed by a Taiwanese manufacturer I don't know about and ECC is merely a subcontractor who can manufacture them at a lower cost, or they licensed the design, but that has yet to be found out

So, in short, if you can get Revmega to tell you who makes these hubs in Taiwan, I'd be personally grateful
Of course, I can ask them myself too


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## Spoker (Apr 8, 2017)

I must have a US clone of a Koozer then. Mine is functioning as day 1 after 2 years hard use. 
Very interested in input on the 490.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

bruto said:


> It's a blanket statement, sometimes true (but not as often as you'd think)
> However, Revmega/Reborn (owner of the Koozer brand - see About us | REBORN INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT LIMITED ) is a trading company - they don't make sh!t
> The only names these hubs can be found under are ECC and Koozer and they look exactly alike, save for the labels
> Considering the former has a site with actual mention of manufacturing facilities and the other doesn't, my bet is that Koozer is just a sticker put on someone else's goods by Reborn
> ...





Spoker said:


> I must have a US clone of a Koozer then. Mine is functioning as day 1 after 2 years hard use.
> Very interested in input on the 490.


Yeah wondering if he changed mfg. plants or something to help keep costs down (e.g. old plant decided to up the MOQ) and that is the issues that we are seeing with the late 2015/2016 models up until now.


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## Spoker (Apr 8, 2017)

Any reports on the 470's functioning and reliability?


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## Bacalardo (Jun 18, 2017)

I been using the 470s only for two weeks. The reason i bought it is because of the use of rachets despite of pawls, and wantet to build a "cheap wheelset". I have the 350 DT´s wiht 36 POE ratchet and they are simply perfect. The Koozer 470´s spin really well, the rear hub have a loud sound but not the kind of cristal sound like other brands, it sounds like a plunk or a jab and if you spin it faster is a very loud bee sound, maybe too loud to most of bikers taste. Also when the freehub is spinning i can feel a little vibration on the frame, but this happend the same with DT Swiss ratchet hubs, i think because of the ratchet springs are little stiff and that helps to the big sound they have. 

On hard peddaling i have no issues, they dont feel as quick as othes (i have Bitex with 56 POE, Hope Pro 4 with 44 POE and the DT 350´s with 36 POE) but i have no complaint with the 28 POE, its the double of any low entry OEM hub, just decent. So far now these hubs seems to be more durable and i like more because i pay less than 100 bucks


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## Szy_szka (Oct 29, 2015)

gotdurt said:


> Directly from Revmega (now rbn.hk):
> KOOZER XM490 HA02N/04N 6 Pawls 72HD Bicycle Hub Disc Bearing 32H Front&Rear MTB | eBay
> 
> Given the inconsistencies and tendency for Chinese stuff to be directly copied and branded, I would not buy them from anyone else.


Anyone here placed a recent order with rbn.hk? I ordered KOOZER XM490 on July 6 and essentially... nothing is happening. The hub is still marked as 'not shipped' so I sent a polite message asking for an update and still... nothing. When should I start to get nervous about this order?

UPDATE #1: so apparently, the seller does NOT have to provide the tracking number (it's only a common courtesy). I guess I have to wait past the estimated delivery date to bring this to the eBay's attention... Let's hope he ships the hub and this becomes a non-issue after all.

UPDATE #2: finally, exactly a week after the purchase, the hub was marked as shipped and a tracking number was provided.

UPDATE #3: the hub is here. Lacing to the rim will have to wait for after the vacation.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

Who's the reputable seller of these hubs? I'm looking to purchase a single rear hub to relate a rim.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Really? After all that you still want one?

Revmega is selling them on eBay.


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

One Pivot said:


> Really? After all that you still want one?
> 
> Revmega is selling them on eBay.


Maybe I got the only good set, but mine are still going strong after 2 years. I'm not easy on equipment, either... I've only torn them down for cleaning/lube/inspection once, will probably replace bearings on the next teardown.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

For $60, I'll gladly try it out. I built some KOM i29 rims on some old am classic hubs I have but the rear is ss specific. Due to some continuing back issues from an old surgery, I have decided to abandon my beloved rigid ss and make my kona unit into a geared 100mm hardtail. The front wheel will stay but I will rebuild the rear on the koozer hub so I can use a cassette. I hate that I have to scrap $64 worth of spokes but whatever.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

kikoraa said:


> For $60, I'll gladly try it out. I built some KOM i29 rims on some old am classic hubs I have but the rear is ss specific. Due to some continuing back issues from an old surgery, I have decided to abandon my beloved rigid ss and make my kona unit into a geared 100mm hardtail. The front wheel will stay but I will rebuild the rear on the koozer hub so I can use a cassette. I hate that I have to scrap $64 worth of spokes but whatever.


You would be better served if you went with a BHS MTB 270.
MTB270 Rear Disc Hub 
At least it will last and it's not that much more money.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

I have a set of bhs hubs on another bike. Great hubs. But still double the price. Limited budget and I see a lot of people had good experience with these. Some bad. Same with everything else in the world


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I loved my koozers, though my clydeness forced me to pursue other avenues. But if youre light weight, dont abuse them, and understand the risks, they were an awesome hub for the money, IMO. Sounds like youre well enough informed, and assume the responsibility. Hope they work out well for you.


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## Szy_szka (Oct 29, 2015)

I was so excited to finally be able to try out the hub! Almost finished truing the wheel, making sure to follow the detentioning techniques showed in numerous online video. On the last attempt, SNAP! the spoke broke out of a nipple! I'm so bummed! I'm sure the fact that I was reusing old spokes and nipples did not help. Lesson learned. New spokes nipples ordered, back to lacing, step #1, here we come...


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## Spoker (Apr 8, 2017)

Regarding the 470 hub I see very little reviews , but on the other hand , no negative reviews. There must have been sold quite a lot of them by now and if problematic we should be aware of it by now?


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

The Koozer hub lasted only 2 months for me. Now the ratchet spins freely inside the hub shell.
I've bought it from aliexpress and don't have any warranty cards. According to Koozer there will be no warranty in my case.






As I understand the aluminium thread of hub body was minced by the steel thread of the ratchet.

Whet it was working I really liked it. 72POE is the thing and really helps.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

ya29er said:


> 72POE is the thing and really helps.


So invest in a king, hadley or I9 then.


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

92gli said:


> So invest in a king, hadley or I9 then.


Buying a $500 hub from an US company is against my life philosophy.

Koozer actually replied to me quite quickly and are going to send me a new hub. They say that they see this type of problem for the first time. And I believe them - I weigh about 120kg geared up and tend to brake all kind of components much more often then everybody else around.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

might make sense for you to use a hub with a larger ratchet ring (more contact area with the hub shell) or one without a threaded-in ratchet ring (xm470, dt swiss)

or maybe just one with deeper threads if you can find it

I like how he said "invest", by the way 
like it's gonna pay off


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

As a fellow clyde, the koozers are likly to keep going out on you. I kept deforming freehubs though the ratchet ring never gave out on me. I'm interested to see how the clydes do on the xm370 ring.

Anyway, I have since moved to bike hub store / bitex hubs, and for a little extra coin theyre considerably more stout. Theyre not without thier problems, and I miss the extra POE the Koozers have (72 vs 54), but the BHS hubs are definitely stronger.

But hey, if they can figure out how to make the koozers a bit more clyde friendly, I'd be back for sure.


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

GuitsBoy said:


> As a fellow clyde, the koozers are likly to keep going out on you. I kept deforming freehubs though the ratchet ring never gave out on me. I'm interested to see how the clydes do on the xm370 ring.
> 
> Anyway, I have since moved to bike hub store / bitex hubs, and for a little extra coin theyre considerably more stout. Theyre not without thier problems, and I miss the extra POE the Koozers have (72 vs 54),


Bitex hubs are not perfect either. 
I've snapped an aluminium axle on Bitex hub. Replaced it with a steel one from Novatec.
Then after another year the bearing shell on drive side became enlarged - i.e. the bearing itself is loose inside it's shell and can be removed with bare fingers. Fixed using a bearing fitting compound.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

ya29er said:


> Bitex hubs are not perfect either.
> I've snapped an aluminium axle on Bitex hub. Replaced it with a steel one from Novatec.
> Then after another year the bearing shell on drive side became enlarged - i.e. the bearing itself is loose inside it's shell and can be removed with bare fingers. Fixed using a bearing fitting compound.


I'm not saying they are perfect. In fact I mentioned that they're not without their problems. I had skipping due to weak pawl springs in mine. but I still feel they are build a bit more stout than the koozers were, and so far they've handled the punishment much better. For what its worth.


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## Szy_szka (Oct 29, 2015)

ya29er said:


> Koozer actually replied to me quite quickly and are going to send me a new hub. They say that they see this type of problem for the first time. And I believe them - I weigh about 120kg geared up and tend to brake all kind of components much more often then everybody else around.


Glad to hear that they are standing behind the product and replacing it under warranty. I just laced up my XM490 (this was the first time I ever attempted to build my own wheel!) and for obvious reasons stories like yours get me nervous about the long term reliability of the hub. Just as a reference: did you use this website to reach out to them: About us | REBORN INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT LIMITED ? Thanks!


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

I have a brand new in black koozer hub. 32h qr 135

I can let go for $45 shipped if anyone wants. I went with bitex and thought I cancelled this but appatently he didn't get the message.


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

Szy_szka said:


> Glad to hear that they are standing behind the product and replacing it under warranty. I just laced up my XM490 (this was the first time I ever attempted to build my own wheel!) and for obvious reasons stories like yours get me nervous about the long term reliability of the hub. Just as a reference: did you use this website to reach out to them: About us | REBORN INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT LIMITED ? Thanks!


Yes, I've contacted them using the email address listed there.

So I've just received the hub. They sent the whole hub by DHL and didn't asked to send the broken back. So far this is my best warranty experience with hubs.

Also the seller from Aliexpress offered to send a replacement but I would have to pay for the shipping.

On the other hand when I minced down internals of Hope Evo 2 hub I had to send it back (+€7) first. The whole process took more then a month.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Mine is now unlaced and going to my office as a liter paperweight. It's done and I'm really done, it's not even a viable backup anymore.

It just doesn't roll well now. I'm not going to figure out why. It's not gritty, it has nice skf bearings. it just stopped rolling well. The pawls are beat, the shell is beat. I bet the axle bent.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

One Pivot said:


> Mine is now unlaced and going to my office as a liter paperweight. It's done and I'm really done, it's not even a viable backup anymore.
> 
> It just doesn't roll well now. I'm not going to figure out why. It's not gritty, it has nice skf bearings. it just stopped rolling well. The pawls are beat, the shell is beat. I bet the axle bent.


Quitter.

Maybe turn it into a salt shaker?


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## Bacalardo (Jun 18, 2017)

4 months so far with the Koozer XM 470 and everithing is working fine. Some muddy rides doesnt afected so far, bearings spinning freely and a clean ratchet is what i saw when opened the freehub.

About the sound, i compared the 470 vs Hope Pro 4 and measured the sound with an app and the results are very surprising. Koozers are 12 db louder than hopes, this damm hubs are noisy! so fans of loud hubs will be pleased. I think if your goal is to have a trustworthy hub without paying a big amount of money the koozers 470 are pretty ok, it seems to be that koozer have adressed some reliablity issues and they solved very well, of curse you dont have the ultra quick engagement, but 28t are pretty ok for many riders, maybe only on ultra technical sections you´ll find not so quick.

Here you can see a video made by my self.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

I've done a few rides on the dt ring drive knockoff version and it works fine. I have a lot of bikes and wheelsets so I can't put tons of time on it, but it looks like a solid design.


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

I need a louder hub than my old Hope for chasing bears off the trails, seriously.

XM470 looks like it will work, has a skull on it to match the Yelli. Building up a set of 35mm id Kore Realm 35mm id hoops. (Modern bike has them for $40 a pop with the 7% code and free shipping btw).

12db louder than a Hope is impressive. That should be twice as loud! Thanks for the info Bacalardo


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## W.J.Christy (Jun 13, 2017)

Soo in my desire to build a secondary wheel set, I came across this thread while looking for hubs. I made it halfway through and decided to purchase a set. Well, I have now read the whole thread and am starting to wonder if I made the right choice. On the plus side, I have an and extra set of reliable hubs that I can lace up still. 

I am 210 ride mostly XC with only 1-3 foot drops and jumps (which I rarely do) and I am not a pedal masher most of the time. 

Should I cut my losses now and lace up the other hubs or should I experiment with the koozers and see what happens? thoughts?


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## gotdurt (Jul 3, 2008)

W.J.Christy said:


> Soo in my desire to build a secondary wheel set, I came across this thread while looking for hubs. I made it halfway through and decided to purchase a set. Well, I have now read the whole thread and am starting to wonder if I made the right choice. On the plus side, I have an and extra set of reliable hubs that I can lace up still.
> 
> I am 210 ride mostly XC with only 1-3 foot drops and jumps (which I rarely do) and I am not a pedal masher most of the time.
> 
> Should I cut my losses now and lace up the other hubs or should I experiment with the koozers and see what happens? thoughts?


If you are comfortable with lacing wheels, I wouldn't hesitate to put them to use; for me, it's only about an hour of my time, and if I can get a year out of them, I'm happy. I have a set that have been on 3 different bikes now since early 2015, and are still in good shape... luckily I caught a bad freehub bearing pre-failure that was causing some flex, and I had to replace the thin plastic ring in the freehub, but they are otherwise fine. FWIW, I pound my bikes pretty good. Id go ahead and use them, maybe start off with some good bearings for insurance, especially in the freehub.


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

W.J.Christy said:


> Should I cut my losses now and lace up the other hubs or should I experiment with the koozers and see what happens? thoughts?


If you usually don't brake components then you'll be fine.

Unfortunelly I do brake everything quite oftent. Just yesterday I managed to crack freehub bearing and feehub itself after about 1.5 months of usage.
It was the replacement hub that they sent to me.
And I had exactly the same experience with Hope Evo 2 hub which was supposetly rated even for downhill. With Koozer it's a bit easy to deal with - they send replcements without asking you to send them the broken part.









A couple of weeks before I cracked XT crankarm in half while climbing.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Those pics land somewhere between LOL and Holy Sh!t.

I thought I was hard on my bikes. I see I have much to learn from you, master.


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## W.J.Christy (Jun 13, 2017)

ya29er said:


> If you usually don't brake components then you'll be fine


Lord have mercy, what exactly are you doing with that bike? Yeah, I don't break stuff often, looking at how most people who have broken these hubs ride, I am pretty easy on my bike.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

GuitsBoy said:


> Those pics land somewhere between LOL and *Holy Sh!t*.
> 
> I thought I was hard on my bikes. I see I have much to learn from you, master.


That's exactly what I was thinking looking at the crank pic, lol.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

I have a buddy who bought a set of the Poozers to try. The ratched ring broke free and started spinning inside the hub. Lasted a couple months at most. 

Total waste of Money.


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## W.J.Christy (Jun 13, 2017)

mjw said:


> I have a buddy who bought a set of the Poozers to try. The ratched ring broke free and started spinning inside the hub. Lasted a couple months at most.
> 
> Total waste of Money.


What kind of riding did he do? How heavy was he if you don't mind me asking?


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

W.J.Christy said:


> What kind of riding did he do? How heavy was he if you don't mind me asking?


He is 160-165 lbs
Powerful for his weight I would say, but not a giant by any means.
Most of the riding on them was flat prairie xc, and they broke on a trip to Deluth.
The drive rings are not keyed - totall engineering mistake. They must be just bonded in. Considering a mtb'er generates the same torque as a small car, I'd say Poozer hubs are basically designed to fail. At lease the pawl and ratched style hubs.

When you are 20km away from the trail head and your drive ring/ratched ring seperately....you have a long push back to the car!


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## W.J.Christy (Jun 13, 2017)

mjw said:


> When you are 20km away from the trail head and your drive ring/ratched ring seperately....you have a long push back to the car!


Ouch, Oh well...... I can lace a wheel pretty easily and these are supposed to be the back up set. Plus i have a spare hub ready to go that will use the same spoke length. So I think i will give these a shot and see where it goes with the expectation of failure. I will just be sure to not use them when I absolutely need a reliable wheel set.

Most of where I ride is well populated and never to far from the car....... The joys of living in Houston.


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## ya29er (Aug 18, 2013)

mjw said:


> He is 160-165 lbs
> The drive rings are not keyed - totall engineering mistake.


Not true. The ratchet ring has a thread and is threaded into the hub body. Most hubs are made the same way.
In my case the thread on the ratchet ring was fine, but the thead on the hub was gone.



mjw said:


> They must be just bonded in. Considering a mtb'er generates the same torque as a small car, I'd say Poozer hubs are basically designed to fail. At lease the pawl and ratched style hubs.


The problem is not the design, by design they are all more or less the same. The problem is in the quality of manufacturing.
A $7 narrow-wide chainring from aliexpress lasts only 2 months for me, but $30 from a proper brand such as Absolute black lasts alsmost a year. By design they are all the same. The difference is the aluminum alloy. The cheap one probably is made from softer 60x series alloy to justify milling costs.



mjw said:


> When you are 20km away from the trail head and your drive ring/ratched ring seperately....you have a long push back to the car!


There's an old trick to use cable ties to tie casstte and spokes and make it a fixie.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

ya29er said:


> There's an old trick to use cable ties to tie casstte and spokes and make it a fixie.


Thank you for this. I'll be sure to hold on to this gem for future use.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

ya29er said:


> Not true. The ratchet ring has a thread and is threaded into the hub body. Most hubs are made the same way.
> In my case the thread on the ratchet ring was fine, but the thead on the hub was gone.
> 
> The problem is not the design, by design they are all more or less the same. The problem is in the quality of manufacturing.
> ...


Thanks for the clarification. Still... designed to fail! At least this version of the pooz.

You will find also some companies to key their drive rings. Novatec does in their better hubs, like the Factor series for example.

A few zipties on cassette and spokes is a neat idea. Still not going to be much fun through.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

factor hubs cost $200 or more per set
haven't seen keyed ratchet rings in this price range (<=$100)


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

ya29er said:


> Not true. The ratchet ring has a thread and is threaded into the hub body. Most hubs are made the same way.
> In my case the thread on the ratchet ring was fine, but the thead on the hub was gone.
> 
> The problem is not the design, by design they are all more or less the same. The problem is in the quality of manufacturing.
> ...


Thanks for the clarification. Still... designed to fail! At least this version of the pooz.

You will find also some companies to key their drive rings. Novatec does in their better hubs, like the Factor series for example.

A few zipties on cassette and spokes is a neat idea. Still not going to be much fun through.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

bruto said:


> factor hubs cost $200 or more per set
> haven't seen keyed ratchet rings in this price range (<=$100)


I was using as an example. 
I bought a set of new factors a while ago btw, for $120 usd to my door.
In the last 6 months I've seen a good number of similar deals on nicer hubs. 
Crc has DT 350's for example, 36t,15x100 front 12x142 rear for around the $120 usd mark.

If you aren't in a rush, better deals will pop up. You just have to watch for them.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

had, you mean
the rear 350s were probably gone in an hour 

yeah I bought a set myself once for less than that, but it was a one off deal as well, so not really something I can advise to someone as an alternative to hubs that are actually in stock somewhere

btw, the RWS-style Koozers have keyed rings I think
there were pictures on this thread a while ago

only 3 tabs, but probably enough for most people
not everyone is 220lbs and hucking 3ft drops in the bottom gear (and landing uphill)


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

bruto said:


> had, you mean
> the rear 350s were probably gone in an hour
> 
> yeah I bought a set myself once for less than that, but it was a one off deal as well, so not really something I can advise to someone as an alternative to hubs that are actually in stock somewhere
> ...


I think just a few keyed tabs is all you need.

The 350's were up for a couple week - I was super surprised. After the first 3-4 days they upped the price on the rear hub by $20. I assume when things sell to quickly they must have something to cue a price increase.

They were actually $99 for the rear and maybe $49 for front, Canadian. $20 off if you spend $149 because both were clearance marked! I suppose that makes them closer to $100 USD.

I keep an eye out now every few days. I managed to pick up a DT 240s rear for super cheap recently - $140 usd. They were up for a couple weeks also.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

You know the difference between rear 240s and 350 is basically the bearings (stainless vs regular) and a bit more weight shaving on the axle between the bearing stops, right?
Manual lists different part numbers for the end caps and spacer as well but I fail to see how they're different

oh yeah, and does anyone know if the framed part is threaded into the hub body or glued to it?  I mean, neither is acceptable on a hub of this price, is it?


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

bruto said:


> You know the difference between rear 240s and 350 is basically the bearings (stainless vs regular) and a bit more weight shaving on the axle between the bearing stops, right?
> Manual lists different part numbers for the end caps and spacer as well but I fail to see how they're different
> 
> oh yeah, and does anyone know if the framed part is threaded into the hub body or glued to it?  I mean, neither is acceptable on a hub of this price, is it?
> ...


Indeed I do know, yes. I'd never pay the MSRP difference to get a set of 240's. But, when they are on super sale and the difference is small, why the heck not? the bearings in the 240's are some of the best in the business. Smoother longer lasting bearings and marginally lighter...not a bad thing.

The axle configuration in the two is slightly different. The 240's can be converted in some cases. 15x100 can be converted to 20x110 for instance, and end caps play a part in that. The 350 is a dedicated standard which cannot be converted.

Back to the Poozers. The big draw seems to be 72POE for cheap, but I'd rather less engagement and more reliability. If I were building a budget wheel, or backup set, I'd grab some XT hubs, disassemble, fill with a quality grease, and reassemble properly. I know cup/cone put some people off, but properly packed and assembled, they roll super smooth and are actually pretty tough - more so that most non-contact cartridge bearings found in the vast majority of modern hubs. Total cost, about $80-90 bucks for a set.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

and 3 xt hubs will get you 72 POE, or more
now to figure out a way to put them in one wheel


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

mjw said:


> If I were building a budget wheel, or backup set, I'd grab some XT hubs, disassemble, fill with a quality grease, and reassemble properly. I know cup/cone put some people off, but properly packed and assembled, they roll super smooth and are actually pretty tough - more so that most non-contact cartridge bearings found in the vast majority of modern hubs.


The koozer freehub lasted much longer than any shimano deore/slx/xt I've ever had. I couldn't disagree with you more about XT being a good budget hub.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

bruto said:


> and 3 xt hubs will get you 72 POE, or more
> now to figure out a way to put them in one wheel


Current XT hubs are 36T. That's actually not horrible. 
Again, for me, at that price point I'd prefer reliability over fast pick-up.

And for reference, I like high POE hubs and have ridden/own some of the best - but I would just rather not feel my hub is a ticking time-bomb.

It's totally cool if you own Koozers and love them. You are entitled to you opinion, and if you guys have had good experience with them I'm HAPPY to hear it - I wouldn't wish busted equipment on anyone. But, as you are entitled to you opinion, so am I - and as a fairly experienced wheel builder who's seen them fail in person, it's hard to me to see them positively. I'd never lace them for someone, but I'd have no issue lacing up a set of m8000 xt's - the only caveat being that I would tear them down and make sure things were up to spec before sending them out the door. Not really a luxary you are afforded with Koozers.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

GuitsBoy said:


> The koozer freehub lasted much longer than any shimano deore/slx/xt I've ever had. I couldn't disagree with you more about XT being a good budget hub.


Have you used the current gen m8000 hubs? Or current gen m9000 xtr?

They are actually quite good, if you can take five minutes to learn to properly maintain them.

You'll also find pretty good reviews of the current xt and xtr wheelsets, with positive commentary on the hubs if you look.

I've seen lots of failure in deore/lx/slx/xt in the past too, but not much in the current generation xt however. Much of this was from people not maintaining the hubs properly. Often they come out of the factory poorly adjusted and with very little grease.

That said, you look like a burly man as I scroll through your posts, and I gather you're going to be hard on just about any hub. If money were a non-issue, I'd say Onxy hubs would be a great fit.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Im one of the rare few that reliability use shimano hubs. Im also one of the not-rare many that busted a koozer :lol:

I personally like shimano hubs. Ive seen so many failures for other people that its pretty hard to recommend them anymore, I dont know what the deal with the discrepancy is, but it is what it is.


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## Spoker (Apr 8, 2017)

Still no reports of failure of the (ratchet) 470's?
ps My 490 rear hub is still flawless after 2 years of hard use at 170 lbs. Almost makes me nervous.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Not as many people bought them. We learned our lesson!

At 72poe, it was worth taking a risk. At 28poe, it's just another low quality Asian hub.


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

One Pivot said:


> Not as many people bought them. We learned our lesson!
> 
> At 72poe, it was worth taking a risk. At 28poe, it's just another low quality Asian hub.


DT 350 has a similar ratchet ring mechanisim and only 18poe unless you upgrade the freehub. The 470 is a completly different hub than the 490. My criteria was cheap and loud for this set of wheels. I will still feel dumb if mine blows up... it will not be the first time I took a chance on kooky asian parts, probably not the last. I will get another Hope if it poops the bed.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Mr. Doom said:


> DT 350 has a similar ratchet ring mechanisim and only 18poe unless you upgrade the freehub. The 470 is a completly different hub than the 490. My criteria was cheap and loud for this set of wheels. I will still feel dumb if mine blows up... it will not be the first time I took a chance on kooky asian parts, probably not the last. I will get another Hope if it poops the bed.


If the ratchet is made from some good Material I suspect they will be reliable. If soft...

Why the need for loud. I'll never understand that.


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

mjw said:


> If the ratchet is made from some good Material I suspect they will be reliable. If soft...
> 
> Why the need for loud. I'll never understand that.


I normally prefer quiet hubs but due to the increase of bear activity on the local trails I am looking for the loudest possible. I am more concerned about making noise at speed than enguagment and this hub is twice as loud as my Hope... there is a method to the madness. The BHS mtb270's, XT, Hope pro4 and DT 350 have good track records but are not as loud as the Koozer 470's.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Mr. Doom said:


> I normally prefer quiet hubs but due to the increase of bear activity on the local trails I am looking for the loudest possible. I am more concerned about making noise at speed than enguagment and this hub is twice as loud as my Hope... there is a method to the madness. The BHS mtb270's, XT, Hope pro4 and DT 350 have good track records but are not as loud as the Koozer 470's.


That has to be the most legitimate reason to have a loud hub yes lol. Bear bells also a great idea.

I have a 350 with 54T ratched which I find pretty loud also. .Hopes are pretty good also, especially if you just use a light lube instead of heavy grease. 470's to appear loud on YouTube though!


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## Spoker (Apr 8, 2017)

If the ratchet material was soft, they would maybe not be so loud?


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

it doesn't have to be butter soft to suffer in the durability department 
just soft enough to wear quicker and eventually fail


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## Srgyoel (Feb 15, 2018)

I just got the xm470 thru hubs shimano driver in the mail, does someone have the measurements for them so I can put in a spoke calculator, I could find the QR measurements but they don't seem to align with mine


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

I forget which one sells as XM470, so here's both models:https://cnecc.en.alibaba.com/product/60678197511-801058308/ECC_high_quality_alloy_rear_bike_brake_hub_China_factory_wholesale_cnc_bike_hub.html?spm=a2700.8304367.prewdfa4cf.1.244e4a23YBSnjT

https://cnecc.en.alibaba.com/produc...pm=a2700.8304367.prewdfa4cf.61.244e4a231iMADl

this is the actual manufacturer's site


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## kdelgado (Mar 6, 2018)

Hi everybody, i have to replace the bearing for a Hibrid Ceramic bearings for my Koozer XM470, i love this Hubs, but the constantly water, mud and dirty ruin the Front hub so i need to replace the bearings:

Front bearing code: 2 x 17287-2RS
Rear bearing codes: I don't know because i only disarm the front hub, the rear is still working but you know is good to know to buy the replacement bearing in advance.

Anyone knows the codes?.

Thanks


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

When you buy bearing for the front, buy some full contact seal bearings. They will have a little more drag initially, but will last way longer.


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## Spoker (Apr 8, 2017)

Been riding my 470 hubs for two full -hard days now.
Only problem I'm having is resistance on the rear freewheeling.
Tried oil in the hub, and now back to thin grease.
Hope that this will wear off.
Can it be that the spring tension on the ratchet is to high.
Strange enough the hub is not loud at all.


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## bunddog (Apr 30, 2018)

i cant recommend the xm 470 to anyone, i mean the rear one, the front is almost smoother and longer spinning then a cone hub, simply amazing. I will post video later if someone interested about the rear its just cant freewheeling...if u pedaling and pulling up your foot working like a fixie if u put back the chain getting loose and dropping between the wheel and the chainstay. So much dirt inside with less then 100 km ride in city with only dry conditions. I fixed it temporarily with removing the red seal, without it works perfectly. So the point is i think never choose this besides hope or dt hubs or any reliable brands hubs

almost forgot, sry for my english


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## Spoker (Apr 8, 2017)

That is what I have: resistance on freewheeling etcetera. I washed it out with gasoline and will run it dry if needed. 
Miss the 72 points, but it sure feels solid in the low gears.


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## Spoker (Apr 8, 2017)

The seal is indeed the resistance culprit. Wonder if it just takes up a little too much space. Fix?


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## Spoker (Apr 8, 2017)

It looks like the spacer bushing is slightlytoo short?
A small additional spacer ring fixed it , it seems.


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## Spoker (Apr 8, 2017)

It looks like the spacer bushing is slightly too short?
A small additional spacer ring fixed it , it seems.


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## kurtz433 (Feb 22, 2010)

*Koozer BM440*

Anyone try out the Koozer BM440 boost set yet?

Oh, and does anyone have the front / rear bearing specs so that I could upgrade them?

Goal: upgrade from the stock ibis738 on my HD4 to a $550ish wheelset w/ MAS2702 Chinese carbon asymmetrical 40mm rim vs. shelling out major (for me) cash on ibis742.

Another MTBR user has experienced success w/ the MAS2702 AM rim, so I'm considering the DH rim for stupider Norcal / Sierras riding.

I see here that build quality on the QR Koozers is often questionable, attributed a lot to the axle, so I'm hoping successive generations and going thru-axle on the Boost BM440 set could negate those issues.

Thanks in advance.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I have not tried the boost koozers, and while I feel I got my moneys worth out of my first set of koozers, I'm not keen to buy them again. I moved on to BHS hubs, but once I went boost, even those seemed over priced. I eventually went to SRAM 900 hubs that I bought from worldwide cyclery through ebay, with one of those 15% coupon codes, so I paid about $180 for the pair. They have been bulletproof and really are a big improvement over the koozers, at least the older ones. IMO, If you can swing the extra 70 bucks, you'd do yourself a favor to go with a stronger hubset, unless youre an extreme flyweight.


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## [email protected] (Mar 23, 2019)

I have a bm 440 hub set.
during a bearing upgrade, unfortunatelly I lost the spacer between the freehub and the rear hub body.

I have some spare spacers at home 18 x 15 x 0,2 mm.
Can someone check the dimensions of that spacer so that I know how many of my spare spacers I need to use? Thanks!


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## [email protected] (Mar 23, 2019)

kurtz433 said:


> Anyone try out the Koozer BM440 boost set yet?
> 
> Oh, and does anyone have the front / rear bearing specs so that I could upgrade them?
> 
> ...


Have not tried them yet.
But bearings are...

6902-2RS
15267-2RS
17287 -2RS

each 2 pieces.


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## deliank (Oct 9, 2019)

gregnash said:


> Anyways, I took the hub apart over the weekend to do a couple of checks and here is what I came up with...
> Axle length with caps on SHOULD be 142mm (+/- 1.5mm) and this is what I came up with
> Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
> 
> ...


I just want to clarify that the guy doing this measurement does NOT understand how this hub stack is supposed to work

The endcaps are NOT supposed to be inserted completely on the axle.
In this type of HUB they are pressed against the inner bearings' rings and holding them together so they do not rotate.

The stack looks like this:

1)On the disk side the end cup holds the inner ring of the bearing agains the larger diameter of the axle.

2)On the drive side the cup holds: 
freewheel outer bearing(inner ring), spacer, freewheel inner bearing(inner ring), washer, hub body bearing(inner ring) against the other larger diameter of the axle.

So it is completely normal to have a 139 mm measuring. 1.5 mm are left from the axle end to each of the cups, which can be observed from his other picuture.

This is all supposed to be like this by desisgn.


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## deliank (Oct 9, 2019)

Goliath2 said:


> Thought I would share my Koozer experience. Got a 2015 hub that I have given moderate use over the last 1 to 2 yrs. XC type stuff on a 29er in QR format. Riding the other day the freehub stopped free wheeling and locked up. Rode it home with continuous peddling to find that the axle had snapped where the hub shell meets the freehub.
> View attachment 1118808
> 
> Decided to check out another wheel I had built with a 2016 Koozer. Couldn't get the free hub off by hand. Had to jerry rig a slap hammer with a crescent whacking a partially installed outer few sprockets of the cassette. Once off I found the free hub had been deformed by the pawls indenting the body affecting bearing alignment. This hub had less than 20 hrs use also in QR format. i agree with earlier posts that the axle is flexy and eventually breaks. May not be such a problem if used with a thru axle. For what it's worth I don't think high POE is any practical advantage. I don't notice any real difference between the 72 POE Koozer and my 18 DT swiss (except my DT swiss still works).
> View attachment 1118809


Note that this hub uses a 1.5 mm thick ALUMINIUM axle with a 15 mm external diameter and 12 mm internal one. It is designed to be used with a 12 mm through axle frame, which, when inserted, will make the axles unit strong enough to be ridden in any discipline(e.g. downhill).

On the other side if you decide to ride this hub with the QR 10x135 end caps only, without any internal axle, it is just a matter of time until the 1.5 mm thick aluminium hub axle breaks. It might take a while if you have lower body weight. Iit might happen almost immediately if you are heavy and do big jumps.

In my opinion it is criminal to sell this hub with the QR caps only without an additional inner axle to make it stronger. And it is criminal because it endangers the health of the rider.

DO NOT RIDE this hub in its QR variant without inserting a strenghtening 12 mm piece of metal - steel or aluminium.

And yes - I know because I've broken an axle on this hub.


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## deliank (Oct 9, 2019)

ya29er said:


> View attachment 1170929


Let me clarify the reason for the shown damage.

Using this hub in a QR variant with its 1.5 mm thick axle makes the axle bend. Thus the freewheel touches the outer wall.

This will not happen if you use the HUB with an inner 12 mm axle as the stack becomes stiff enough.

If you use this hub in on a QR frame you MUST insert a strengthtening 12 mm pipe through its entire lenght - steel or thicker aluminium!


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

deliank said:


> Let me clarify the reason for the shown damage.
> 
> Using this hub in a QR variant with its 1.5 mm thick axle makes the axle bend. Thus the freewheel touches the outer wall.
> 
> ...


None of the other manufacturers that have changeable end caps require this i.e. Hope, DT Swiss. If it is truly required then Koozer needs to include one with the end caps for QR.


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## thasingletrackmastah (Nov 15, 2005)

I had a Novatec rearhub with exactly the same problem.
Axle (135 QR) bends, freehub body touches the steel teeth, bearings (already replaced with SKF) wear off real quick.
Replaced by a Hope Pro2, many years ago, problem solved.

Now ordered a BM440 for another bike, fingers crossed.


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## sheik480 (Oct 14, 2018)

*I guess they still make these*

Going by what turns up on ebay and elsewhere, these hubs still sell well enough for somebody to stock them. Reading through the _entire_ thread, it looks like the root of a lot of the problem is an under engineered axle in the rear hub: thin walled and aluminum, allowing flex to damage every other part to the right of the hub shell. Imagine my surprise when I take a gander at this 'spec sheet':









They allege it has a chrome-moly steel axle. And weighs 15g more. Same price, too, direct from China. Maybe worth a second look for a lighter rider.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I wanted so badly to like them. And honestly, Ii didnt ever fully blow one up, but they sure got UGLY in short order. I'm thinking even a chromoly axle would still be susceptible to uneven pawl engagement. Perhaps less due to axle flex, but just as much due to machining and manufacturing tolerances. In my opinion the uneven pawl engagement was what was killing my hubs.


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## sheik480 (Oct 14, 2018)

GuitsBoy said:


> I wanted so badly to like them. And honestly, Ii didnt ever fully blow one up, but they sure got UGLY in short order. I'm thinking even a chromoly axle would still be susceptible to uneven pawl engagement. Perhaps less due to axle flex, but just as much due to machining and manufacturing tolerances. In my opinion the uneven pawl engagement was what was killing my hubs.


Fair and true, but to be honest, guitsboy, between this and the mtb180/270 thread, a lighter rider you ain't. I'd be curious to see if it would help, and I may pick up a set in the spring, but this hub has lost a lot of customers, and rightfully so. I was somewhat disappointed by your choice of titanium insert, because a steel one of the same thickness would have added almost twice as much stiffness, but it's still a cheap hub in many ways.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

sheik480 said:


> Fair and true, but to be honest, guitsboy, between this and the mtb180/270 thread, a lighter rider you ain't. I'd be curious to see if it would help, and I may pick up a set in the spring, but this hub has lost a lot of customers, and rightfully so. I was somewhat disappointed by your choice of titanium insert, because a steel one of the same thickness would have added almost twice as much stiffness, but it's still a cheap hub in many ways.


I was always under the impression that Ti was 50% stiffer and stronger than steel, and 50% lighter than steel. But at the cost of being brittle, especially under tension as in bolts. It was worth a shot, and in my particular application with that bike it certainly didnt weaken the axle.

Anyway, I do understand I'm no flyweight. But I seem to be having better luck with the sram 900 hubs with two larger pawls that engage at a time. I think this is largely because there less chance for uneven pawl engagement pushing the freehub body into the ratchet ring. Even still, I do see some marring, but far less than with the koozers or BHS hubs. It makes me super curious about the i9 hydra hubs, since they turn this particular weakness into a strength. But the technology would have to trickle down to more affordable hubs before I can justify it.

But like I said, the koozers never did really fail me, they just got ugly. And then my buddy put another 3k miles on them only occasionally replacing the freehub out of caution. If the cromo axle appears to help, I'd consider building up a rarely used wheelset with them again. If you have good luck, please let us know.


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## sheik480 (Oct 14, 2018)

I'll post up in this thread if/when I do that. I'm neither a heavy, powerful, or aggressive rider, but they're neato looking hubs and I'd love them as a cheap, tight engaging option. We'll see again, won't we?



GuitsBoy said:


> I was always under the impression that Ti was 50% stiffer and stronger than steel, and 50% lighter than steel. But at the cost of being brittle, especially under tension as in bolts.


On a specific cross-section basis, aluminum is about a third the density, elastic modulus, and strength of steel, and titanium is a little stiffer and stronger than halfway between steel and aluminum, but closer to aluminum in density. Great material, just not as stiff as steel for the same shape, which only really matters if you're space constrained, like reinforcing the inside of a hub axle  Personally, I'm not a fan at all of the use of aluminum in cantilevered axles like in rear hubs, but I barely buy hubs, much less make or sell them.

I gotta say, I really appreciate all the time and money you and others have put into investigating dubious alternatives, this place just wouldn't be the same without it!


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## sheik480 (Oct 14, 2018)

If anyone is looking for them, they're named "xm490 pro" and have toned down styling like this:


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

grey is only one of the colours 
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...6Pjnl&id=609941386127&ns=1&abbucket=12#detail


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I think if you buy them at this point, you kinda deserve what's coming!

Shimano hubs are cheaper and much much more durable, which says a lot since Shimano hubs aren't all that durable either.


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## geoffire (Mar 10, 2020)

*supporting insert fix it?*

Yes digging up an old thread, but I needed some light cheap hubs and these fit the bill (got a set for $70 shipped from in USA). I'm ~240lbs bike+rider+full gear and building the wheelset for a gravel bike (my aggressive offroad set). From what I can gather the failures all are the rear hub with QR endcaps and appears to be due to the weak axel.

What I've done is purchase a 12mm OD thick aluminum tube ($8 with prime shipping on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Aluminum-Length-Seamless-Straight/dp/B07YCG8LD3) which I'll cut to length in order to reinforce the axel. BTW, I measured the axel only 1.37mm thick rather than 1.5mm I saw up the thread.

Has anyone had a failure WITH a 12mm TA axle or an insert like I'm doing?


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## dogsonboards (Nov 17, 2015)

I have been riding a koozer hub with 12mm thru axle for about 2 years now without incident. I did upgrade the bearings on the hub, just because I don't trust cheap ones and had the right size one on hand. It is also on a wheelset that I do not ride that frequently, so it only has maybe 1000-1500 km on it.

I also only weigh 180 lbs ( plus gear ) so less then you.

However, since there is an option for a hub with a stronger axle available now I would certainly buy that. Just in case.

There definately have been failures with this hub, but it has worked well for me.

- Steven



geoffire said:


> Yes digging up an old thread, but I needed some light cheap hubs and these fit the bill (got a set for $70 shipped from in USA). I'm ~240lbs bike+rider+full gear and building the wheelset for a gravel bike (my aggressive offroad set). From what I can gather the failures all are the rear hub with QR endcaps and appears to be due to the weak axel.
> 
> What I've done is purchase a 12mm OD thick aluminum tube ($8 with prime shipping on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Aluminum-Length-Seamless-Straight/dp/B07YCG8LD3) which I'll cut to length in order to reinforce the axel. BTW, I measured the axel only 1.37mm thick rather than 1.5mm I saw up the thread.
> 
> Has anyone had a failure WITH a 12mm TA axle or an insert like I'm doing?


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## R1ggs (Apr 10, 2018)

Would anyone know if the MF480 is better/more durable than the XM490? I sent them an email and they repplied recommending the MF480 for more all mountain/hard riding.

Also, I'm going to take a look at these XM 490 Pro that have recently been released.


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## geoffire (Mar 10, 2020)

I ordered the hubs then found this thread. I'd probably have ordered something else had I found this first... I have not laced them up yet, but I think I'm going to go ahead and add the insert and hope for the best.


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## gtfan (Feb 25, 2008)

R1ggs said:


> Would anyone know if the MF480 is better/more durable than the XM490? I sent them an email and they repplied recommending the MF480 for more all mountain/hard riding.
> 
> Also, I'm going to take a look at these XM 490 Pro that have recently been released.


i have been using them for close to a year on trail,small jumps/street sessioning/cruising and practising trials.so far so good. i am 74kg.it is a rachet system with no pawls and the rachet will just lock back,just as described as magnetic.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

All things considered, you can get a DT swiss 350 hub for really not much more. Once you factor in the near-mandatory bearing replacement for the koozers, its not much more. Once you factor in the fact that you'll probably crack the freehub, axle, or shell itself, the 350 is actually cheaper.


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## geoffire (Mar 10, 2020)

Where is the DT Swiss 350 not a whole lot more? I'm seeing at best $250 for a set vs about $75 for the koozier set currently.

I've built two wheelsets with these (XM490) now - one for my gravel bike (been riding extensively 5 months now), the other my sons 24" bike (just laced it last week). Neither is a particularly high stress setup but I put those 12mm OD aluminum tubes I linked in a prior post in to reinforce the rear axel just in case. 

I know it's early to say much about reliability, but so far I have nothing but praise for these things. They're near the cheapest option yet high engagement and pretty light too. Bonus is I can swap TA or QR endcaps for $15 and swap XD or shimano freehubs for $30! I'm not afraid of changing the bearings or hell even the whole thing out if I need to down the line, I know I'll still come out ahead.

Sure if I was building up an enduro wheelset, something high dollar, or needed maximum reliability for extended bike touring or whatever I'd get a better hub, but for these were both sub $250 wheelsets that by any metric are better than what I could find at twice the price.


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## Tommybees (Dec 25, 2014)

One Pivot is spot on. I too went the BHS route to be smart and save some $, and in the end replaced 3ea Al axles, exploded drive hub casting and finally replaced it all with steel axle and steel drive hub. All this because I could not justify even more $'s for getting a new wheel set (hub, spokes, rim). The answer was always that it is only another $20 - $60 to fix the original problem(s) and it has added up.

Things break, that is a given, but I have spent way more than 2x the original cost and had multiple down days from some basic design flaws. The service and prompt responses were pretty decent and so BHS service is not being knocked here. It is a decent hub that will cost money to keep it running, that's all and in the end you will not be saving money. All of these hub should really be rated for weight and use and in my opinion I would say nothing > 150# off-road. I don't have data, but I am roughly 200# old dude that broke multiple bits along the journey. 

So now I bought a Hadley on sale (yeah I'm cheap) and while I know things might break, I am not planning on it.


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## geoffire (Mar 10, 2020)

I think the key point here is it depends on the usage. These two wheelsets I've built I think these hubs will be fine, but for heavier riders or harder use a beefier hub is probably a smarter call. That calculation also depends on how comfortable you are with wheel building. It's not a huge deal to me to swap a hub so if these prove troublesome it won't be a huge problem - personally it's a gamble I'm willing to make.

The critical flaw with these is the thin weak aluminum axel when used with QR in the rear. I've supplemented it so it should be fine (TA setups should be similarly ok). We'll see.


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## 4REEE (Sep 13, 2020)

*Tube Length*

@geoffire: Thanks for the invaluable info. (1) What length did you eventually cut that 12mm tube down to? (2) Any failures since installation?



> What I've done is purchase a 12mm OD thick aluminum tube ($8 with prime shipping on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Alumin.../dp/B07YCG8LD3) which I'll cut to length in order to reinforce the axel. BTW, I measured the axel only 1.37mm thick rather than 1.5mm I saw up the thread.


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## geoffire (Mar 10, 2020)

4REEE said:


> @geoffire: Thanks for the invaluable info. (1) What length did you eventually cut that 12mm tube down to? (2) Any failures since installation?


I haven't measured it: I just popped one end cap off, slid it in, made a mark where it exited the axel, then cut it a little before the mark. I don't think the length is critical (as long as it's not too long).

And no failures or issues here - and I'm not taking it easy. I've put well over 1000 miles on it at this point and I bomb down hills often catching air off the drainage cutouts and such. I'm an aggressive heavyish rider. Here's my ride yesterday: https://www.strava.com/activities/4051065064


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## 4REEE (Sep 13, 2020)

@geoffire: Dang! You're a monster!

Are you using Koozer's supplied QR or another?


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## eleazar (Jan 10, 2008)

*Xm490*

I bought a Koozer XM490 to replace my old 10x135 hub. Worked great for 200 miles then I bent the axle (I think) yesterday. Wasn't doing anything crazy, but I was experimenting with lower tire pressures on my hard tail so I may have bottomed out on the rim (didn't get a flat). Trying to disassemble to get the axle but I see no way to remove it. Anyone use the 10x135 QR hubs?





edit: should have read more of the thread. If I email Koozer will they send me a new axle that I can put a 12mm insert into (as mentioned above)? I bought the hub a little more than 2 years ago on Amazon.


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## 4REEE (Sep 13, 2020)

@eleazar: Not too sure if there is a warranty after 2 years. I can't find any information about warranties on their website.


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## geoffire (Mar 10, 2020)

4REEE said:


> @geoffire: Dang! You're a monster!
> 
> Are you using Koozer's supplied QR or another?


I'm not the biggest fan of the supplied QR's as they are kind of hard to get tight, but do look pretty cool. My son's bike does have them on, but I like the ones that came with my gravel bike (Ritchey brand) a little more so use them.

@eleazer: Wow yeah, I'd guess that's a bent axle, the axel walls are very thin on these. There's no way I'd trust them without a TA or the tube supplement. I'm glad I read this (whole) thread and got the idea before my wheel builds... No idea about changing just the axel or if they are likely to offer support.

I wish you luck! let us know how it goes!


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## 4REEE (Sep 13, 2020)

@geoffire: Thanks to you, I went and purchased a Velofuze 135mm x 12mm to 10mm adapter for my wife's XM490 Pro hub. Even though the Pro uses a Cr-Mo axle, I decided to overkill it by using the adapter to beef it up.


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## eleazar (Jan 10, 2008)

@4REEE I almost got that one, but I wanted a bolt-on axle so I got the Sunringle 281-25122-BOLT.
I did email Koozer with that video and they said they are sending me a new axle... we'll see.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

GuitsBoy said:


> I'm not saying they are perfect. In fact I mentioned that they're not without their problems. I had skipping due to weak pawl springs in mine. but I still feel they are build a bit more stout than the koozers were, and so far they've handled the punishment much better. For what its worth.


Did you ever find replacement springs? I had the same problem with weak springs but couldn't find what springs to buy. I ended up buying a new freehub body (out of desperation).

I know your comment is 3 years old, you may have different hubs by now...


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## eleazar (Jan 10, 2008)

Koozer really came through. After I emailed them, they sent me a steel axle (62g vs 25g for the aluminum) end caps and 2x 6902-2RS NSK bearings. Decided to keep using the thru axle I got. I think this a great hub, just think they designed it with a thru axle in mind. I'll probably use the BM440 boost hubs for the new bike if I replace the wheels.









Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## ebolamonkey (Nov 18, 2020)

*Koozer XM490 Pro*

I got a set of XM490 Pro coming. After shopping around for a set of 26" wheels, I got rather disappointed at the hubs being used such as the Shimano M525/M756. The only difference I can tell between the XM490 and the XM490 Pro is that the Pro uses Steel axles. Reading the thread I can definitely see why. I intend to use the VeloFuze adapter and use the 5mm skewers to eliminate any axle problems.

Mine was $80 or so shopped from Aliexpress. I'm looking at Sun Ringle MTX 31s as the Rhyno Lite XLs are out of stock in most places. Looked at the Geometry section of the website for XM490 here https://www.koozer.net/149.html and noticed that the spoke holes are 2.6mm or 12G vs 2.0mm or 14G.

Folks on this thread mentioned buying spokes but didn't go into details on which spoke/nipple/rim combination they bought.

I'm not sure if the 12G nipples could clear the spoke holes on the Sun Ringle MTX 31 as the spoke is 0.6mm larger. The nipple body diameter is 4.85mm for 12G nipples vs 4.1mm of 14G+.


What spokes are you guys using?
What rims are you using?
Are there any issues with using 12G spokes and nipples on any particular rims?


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## thasingletrackmastah (Nov 15, 2005)

I recently build a rear wheel using a Koozer BM440 hub.
The spoke holes are 2.6mm.
I used DT Comp spokes (double butted 2mm / 14G)
Spokeholes are always a little large then the spokes, don't think a 12G / 2.6mm spoke would fit.
The hub is used on a 12mm trough axle, don't think I'll have any axle problems.

The hub is less noisy then the Hope Pro4 in my other wheelset.
Higher pitch, but less noise.
(I like that)


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## Spoker (Apr 8, 2017)

How did you contact Koozer?


eleazar said:


> Koozer really came through. After I emailed them, they sent me a steel axle (


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## 4REEE (Sep 13, 2020)

@ebolamonkey:


What spokes are you guys using? 14G Stainless steel
What rims are you using? Sun/Ringle MTX-33
Are there any issues with using 12G spokes and nipples on any particular rims? n/a


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## eleazar (Jan 10, 2008)

[email protected]


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## benri (Dec 4, 2020)

*Hub dust seal*










Hello, does anyone know where can I buy replacements for this dust seal? This hub is very similar to a Koozer hub but the branding is different (Crimson), I think the same manufacturer makes both of these hubs.


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## eleazar (Jan 10, 2008)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33020778667.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.42952f878GdAR0&algo_pvid=f2355465-11fa-48fe-b84a-ad5dfaa155d4&algo_expid=f2355465-11fa-48fe-b84a-ad5dfaa155d4-19&btsid=0bb0623316073563818608213e921c&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

Looks pretty close... I can measure mine when I get home later.


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## benri (Dec 4, 2020)

I lost the steel shim washer/gasket in between the freehub body bearing and the inner bearing, does anyone know the right size to get? Thanks.


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## ebolamonkey (Nov 18, 2020)

4REEE said:


> @ebolamonkey:
> 
> 
> What spokes are you guys using? 14G Stainless steel
> ...


Built using this exact setup. MTX-33s and 12G double butted spokes. Used axle inserts as well on front and rear.


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