# Is Carbon Rigid much more forgiving than Steel Rigid fork?



## sandyeggo (Mar 6, 2011)

I have a stock fork on my Redline 'Cog. It is the first rigid fork I've had since my 93 Hardrock. So far I'm really digging the feel and handling of a rigid fork but I have bad hands/wrists and they are hurting a bit (they don't hurt riding the geared HT). 

I'd prefer to keep a rigid fork rather than move to a suspension fork and I heard that a carbon fork is more forgiving. 

The question for you wise folks on the SS forum is just how much of a difference does it really make? Is it worth giving it a shot?


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## TroutBum (Feb 16, 2004)

sandyeggo said:


> The question for you wise folks on the SS forum is just how much of a difference does it really make?


It'll make a difference in your wallet thickness, but your **** is still going to hurt anyway.

Search the interwebs... we've been round this one a few times before.


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## ne_dan (Mar 19, 2007)

Its comes down to more than just forgiving. Better steering and braking are also a benefit of a carbon fork. Not to mention the weight loss. There are good steel fork but I prefer a carbon fork.


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## sandyeggo (Mar 6, 2011)

Thanks for the responses!


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## p nut (Apr 19, 2007)

Bigger front tire and less psi will have more noticeable affect. Or just get a shock suspension front fork.


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## ts818 (Jun 6, 2011)

define:
better steering and braking

I've been wondering if these are worth the hype 2, and what kind of hits can they take, if i start doin some unplanned front flipping am i going to be out of a half a grand.


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## p nut (Apr 19, 2007)

ts818 said:


> define:
> better steering and braking..


Less flex and dive.



ts818 said:


> ...I've been wondering if these are worth the hype 2, and what kind of hits can they take, if i start doin some unplanned front flipping am i going to be out of a half a grand.


Better question is what kind of hits can your hands, wrists, arms and face take?


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## ts818 (Jun 6, 2011)

But aren't "flex and dive" what us "rigid looking for possibly more absorbtion in a carbon fork" riders looking for? I can understand why those are bad, but my stock steel doesn't seem to do much of that anyhow. Maybe someone telling me that the carbon fork is going to perform better, be as rigid, but transfer less vibration into the hands and forearms as fatigue... maybe that is what I'm expecting to hear?

I mean the niner forks look saweet, but that can't justify the $395, and the whole lightweight front end adds to the argument, but I wanna hear someone tell me that its going to feel better than the steel rigid as well. Otherwise I just don't get it.


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## ne_dan (Mar 19, 2007)

ts818 said:


> But aren't "flex and dive" what us "rigid looking for possibly more absorbtion in a carbon fork" riders looking for? I can understand why those are bad, but my stock steel doesn't seem to do much of that anyhow. Maybe someone telling me that the carbon fork is going to perform better, be as rigid, but transfer less vibration into the hands and forearms as fatigue... maybe that is what I'm expecting to hear?
> 
> I mean the niner forks look saweet, but that can't justify the $395, and the whole lightweight front end adds to the argument, but I wanna hear someone tell me that its going to feel better than the steel rigid as well. Otherwise I just don't get it.


I've raced on both on a carbon and steel fork. I could feel the steel fork flex (twist) when cornering hard, and when going fast into exposed roots and rocks, the steel fork gets overwhelmed and just deflects and does its own line choice. On the other hand the carbon fork doesn't twist and where you point it is where you go.

Now if you are just the type of rider that cruises along you'll must likely never notice the difference between the two.

And you can find the niner fork for much cheaper than $395 if you look around.


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## p nut (Apr 19, 2007)

ts818 said:


> But aren't "flex and dive" what us "rigid looking for possibly more absorbtion in a carbon fork" riders looking for? I can understand why those are bad, but my stock steel doesn't seem to do much of that anyhow. Maybe someone telling me that the carbon fork is going to perform better, be as rigid, but transfer less vibration into the hands and forearms as fatigue... maybe that is what I'm expecting to hear?
> 
> I mean the niner forks look saweet, but that can't justify the $395, and the whole lightweight front end adds to the argument, but I wanna hear someone tell me that its going to feel better than the steel rigid as well. Otherwise I just don't get it.


My bad, for some reason, I thought you had a suspension fork. So nevermind my comment.

I'm not a rigid connoisseur, so can't tell you the intriquate differences between the various forks available. But all I know is that when things get bumpy, it hurts. Especially if you're on it for hours at a time. You may be able to notice subtle differences, but don't expect a magic carpet ride.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

ne_dan said:


> I've raced on both on a carbon and steel fork. I could feel the steel fork flex (twist) when cornering hard, and when going fast into exposed roots and rocks, the steel fork gets overwhelmed and just deflects and does its own line choice. On the other hand the carbon fork doesn't twist and where you point it is where you go.
> 
> Now if you are just the type of rider that cruises along you'll must likely never notice the difference between the two.
> 
> And you can find the niner fork for much cheaper than $395 if you look around.


**** carbon forks. Mine bounced all over the ****ing place and made me hate my 29er even more.

Everyone is going to have an opinion they think is the goddamned truth on this subject because everyone has a **** spewing *******. Your own experience may vary, but I'm more than content with a steel fork.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

ne_dan said:


> I've raced on both on a carbon and steel fork. I could feel the steel fork flex (twist) when cornering hard, and when going fast into exposed roots and rocks, the steel fork gets overwhelmed and just deflects and does its own line choice. On the other hand the carbon fork doesn't twist and where you point it is where you go.
> 
> Now if you are just the type of rider that cruises along you'll must likely never notice the difference between the two.
> 
> And you can find the niner fork for much cheaper than $395 if you look around.


Not trying to bash your experience as experience counts for a lot, but are going off of only one steel fork and/or only one carbon fork? The design and specific material specs can make as much or more of a difference in the performance of the fork as the basic raw material, and given how many carbon and steel forks are available I would suggest that there is a lot of room for even the complete opposite of your personal observations to be true


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## b0mb3r (Feb 12, 2011)

I prefer my Fox F100 RLC over rigid, because it has a lock out and some voodoo magic dampening system. I tried rigid and there are many upsides but it was not for me.


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## TroutBum (Feb 16, 2004)

b0mb3r said:


> I prefer my Fox F100 RLC over rigid, because it has a lock out and some voodoo magic dampening system. I tried rigid and there are many upsides but it was not for me.


Uh oh, sParty's gonna bust your ass for having a wet fork.


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## TroutBum (Feb 16, 2004)

umarth said:


> Everyone is going to have an opinion they think is the goddamned truth on this subject because everyone has a **** spewing *******. Your own experience may vary, but I'm more than content with a steel fork.


You PMS'n this week?


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

TroutBum said:


> You PMS'n this week?


must be, he's bleeding asterisks all over the place


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

TroutBum said:


> You PMS'n this week?


Nope, just helping my dad with one of his home improvement projects. No amount of beer will cure what I'm feeling.


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## b0mb3r (Feb 12, 2011)

TroutBum said:


> Uh oh, sParty's gonna bust your ass for having a wet fork.


wet fork, good one.


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## TroutBum (Feb 16, 2004)

umarth said:


> Nope, just helping my dad with one of his home improvement projects. No amount of beer will cure what I'm feeling.


Ewwwww. That's like one step away from Mrs. U asking how her 29er looks.


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## Flat Ark (Oct 14, 2006)

I've had White Bros., Pace and Niner carbon forks. I had a steel Salsa El Mariachi fork that put ALL of them to shame as far as ride quality was concerned! The carbon forks are just too stiff and unforgiving.


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## Mr_Nice_Guy (Nov 9, 2010)

I just got a Salsa Cromoto 445mm A-C fork to replace the stock Raleigh fork on my 2007 non suspension corrected XXIX...I have had the Cromoto Grande on 2 El Mariachi's and look forward to the performance on this bike as well...an upgrade for sure!!


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## fattirebliss (Jun 30, 2007)

I ride a carbon fork, and most of the time I forget I am rigid. I wrapped up a 65 mile race last weekend and didn't have a sore muscle in my body. I love the way it handles as well...


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

TroutBum said:


> Ewwwww. That's like one step away from Mrs. U asking how her 29er looks.


****, that happens a lot too. I need a life redo.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 25, 2009)

Flat Ark said:


> I've had White Bros., Pace and Niner carbon forks. I had a steel Salsa El Mariachi fork that put ALL of them to shame as far as ride quality was concerned! The carbon forks are just too stiff and unforgiving.


That's because you live in Arkansas, and every trail there is covered in golf to basketball-sized rocks


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## straw (Nov 9, 2004)

Just converted a mid 80's BRC Voodoo steel ridged to SS. My wrists and forearms also hurt until I made a couple of changes. 

Carbon handle bar, noticed the difference right away.
2.35 tires with 25 lbs psi, if I ever convert to tubeless I'II go lower.

I've got a couple of dozen good rides on it now and I'm definately feeling better in my arms and wrists, wish I could say the same for my lungs 

Cheers,
Straw


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

*Much* more forgiving, no. A _little more_ forgiving, yes.

A few years back when I had my first 29er, an On One Inbred, the only mtb I had since I sold my two 26" bikes, I was riding my cross bike and had an accident, breaking bones in my shoulder, front and back.

Once the doc cleared me to ride, I went out on an easy gravel road ride, but had to give up in very few miles due to the throbbing pain in my shoulder. So I bought an On One carbon fork.

In a week I was back out and able to ride just fine, and some smoother single track, since the vibration dampening was what I needed. Felt good to get back to the dirt after nine months of injury complications.


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## FoCo29er (Dec 5, 2010)

i think the real draw to carbon was the stiffness, laterally. as far as compliance, man its a rigid fork. what else do you expect? fairies that come lift you over the rough stuff? I ride rigid carbon in colorado where it is really rocky and steep and what ever else you can find to make it worse. Its a totally different riding style, you adsorb the hits in your tires and your arms and knees. Natures shock absorbers. 

The lateral stiffness make it way better for high speed turns and climbing. I had no idea how flexy my steel fork was until i climbed around a switchback under power on a carbon fork. I ride a niner fork but there are others that get the idea. I just feel that after riding the others that the niner was the best.


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## skankingbiker (Jan 15, 2010)

See http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=721214&highlight=black-ops+carbon+fork

IMHO better than steel on small stuff, but most advantage is weight reduction.


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

Re-reposting this once again:

This is a cut and paste from this thread (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=7502485#poststop) ). Added info below the photos.

Since January 2004 I have now owned...

One Karate Monkey fork ~ Steel
One custom Waltworks ~ Steel
Two custom Independent Fabrications (one 473 A-C, one 445 A-C) ~ Steel
One White Brothers ~ carbon
Two Salsa Cro-Motos~ Steel
Three Niner (two 490 A-C, one 470 A-C) ~ Steel
Some random custom fork I got off eBay (445 A-C) ~ Steel
One Niner ~ carbon (edit: I'm now riding a 2nd Niner carbon with a tapered steer tube)

Hands down the Niner carbon is the best riding fork I've owned. It's not just the weight, it's the ride. The lateral rigidity is better than most, and it's ability to eat up chatter on the trail is second to none... rigid of course.

To take the tire selection out of the equation the KM, WW, and tall IF fork were all run on a 26" wheeled single speed with a Diesel 2.5 and the others were run on a 29" single speed with a Rampage up front.

I don't wanna dig through a mess of photos, but I swear I've owned them all and spent a fair amount of time on each riding them all over the fricking place.



















I want to add that a more compliant fork will help with some hand/wrist pain, but it may not make it go away. Body position, grip choice, tire pressure/selection... there's a lot to consider when making a rigid bike "comfortable."


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

much more forgiving? no.

how much of a difference does it really make? not much.

Is it worth giving it a shot? yes, especially if you want my on-one cf fork.


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## Lumbee1 (Dec 16, 2004)

Once I sell my FS bike, I am looking for a nice rigid fork for my 29'er SS. I have a Karate Monkey fork and Vassago Odis fork now. The Odis is currently installed. The ride characteristics of the Odis were shocking different from the Monkey fork. The Odis feels compliant and smooth over a variety of surfaces. It has a front suspension feel without the bobbing and diving of a suspension fork. The Monkey fork was brutal even with an Ardent 2.4 up front. Rough sections made me nervous, and I typically covered the brakes on any downhill section to avoid being beat up. 

Now that I know that all rigid forks don't ride the same, I am interested in something better to carry from frame to frame. High on my list are the Salsa Cromoto Grande ($100), custom Waltworks ($275), or a Niner Carbon ($375). Both the final price of the Salsa and Waltworks will be a bit higher since I want a custom color. The Salsa appeals to me due to the price and quality of the steel. A custom Waltworks would be designed for me and match any steel 29'er frame I choose in the future. The Niner is the ultimate rigid fork and has received rave reviews but the price tag is pretty staggering. 

The custom painted Waltworks is close to the price of a Niner Carbon and a Niner Carbon is getting into Salsa fork and frame territory. So what should I do?


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

I just got a steel fork for my 29er and took it out for a ride. I think my carbon fiber fork ate up the small bumps better, but the performance is close. If you are not being lazy and keeping your hands loose, you probably wouldn't notice the difference.

On bigger bumps and where things get techy, the steel fork was better, without comparison. My White Bros jumped all over and was pretty skittish, but the steel fork is much more stable feeling, predictable. I did 15.5 miles and hit stuff pretty fast and I wasn't too beat up at the end.


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## lwebber60 (Aug 13, 2008)

I went with the Niner Carbon fork on my Jabber this spring. I ran the Vassago Odis last year great fork, but I like the Niner fork for the following reasons:

1- Lightweight
2-Very precise, no twisting, point and shoot is what I call it
3-Does absorb the smaller hits, big stuff beats you up, hell what do you expect it's rigid!

Overall I like the Niner Carbon, anyone looking for a Vassago Odis fork? might have one for sale...


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## rbrandow (Oct 14, 2010)

If you look at the numbers involved from a materials science standpoint, the difference between the response of a robust carbon fiber fork and a thin wall steel fork are real small compared to other differences. The differences due to the material used should also be very small relative to fork construction; saying carbon fiber handles like a noodle could well be more a function of the geometry in the fork legs as opposed to the elastic modulus of the stuff.

The more reasonable response seems to be "small change compared to tires, air pressure or just running a suspension", which is what the material science suggests as well.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

rbrandow said:


> IThe more reasonable response seems to be "small change compared to tires, air pressure or just running a suspension", which is what the material science suggests as well.


As far as personal experience on bikes is concerned, I think you nailed it. PSI, cushy grips, carbon fiber everywhere with 2.5 tubeless tires... well, you're still running rigid. Some of those things help so 16 miles is fairly comfortable when before it was 15. Learning to ride rigid is the real key.


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

It's weird because I have steel forks on both my 29er (On One Inbred) and my generic aluminum SS and my 29er is MUCH more harsh than my 26" bike. There is a huge difference in the harshness, which almost makes me not want to ride my 29er.

I had a carbon fork on my MotoB Ti, and it was wonderful. I also have a carbon fork on my steel CX bike (Pake CMute) and it is also very nice.

I may upgrade to a Niner Fork when some extra cash comes around. From my experience, I think it would make a difference for my On One Sherman Tank.


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## debusama (Dec 9, 2008)

I have a Redline d440 which I believe has the same fork as a Monocog. As far as rigid forks go, It is pretty compliant. Some forks might be better, but I can't help but think that if your wrists can't handle the Redline fork, maybe they just can't handle rigid forks. In addition to higher volume tires with lower pressure, you might find a bar with more rise would bring you a little more upright to take some weight of of your hands. If you've really got $400 dollars you want to spend on taking some pressure off of your wrists you may as well just get a suspension fork.


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

I have ridden both. The carbon as stated seems to perform better, weighs less and costs more! It does dampen some of the blows but if anything just takes the sting out a little. My steel experience was similar to what was listed above in that it weighs more but imo provided a softer ride. It did flex and twist more however. 

I think that if I was doing the whole fork thing over again I would either be buying a Niner or looking at a suspension fork of some sort (Lefty). Then again, I really like the Black Cat Bone but if I'm dropping that much money on a fork, it will certainly have some squish to it.


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## k29er (Aug 21, 2011)

Just went through this from the P2 that came with the Kona unit to a niner carbon. I should have saved my money like Umarth told me. The carbon is better at small bumps but steel is better on the big bumps and lower tire pressure fixes the small bumps. If you hit the carbon fork on a bump directly in line with the fork legs there is no flex and you will feel it all the way to the top of your head. I dont remember ever getting that with the steel fork. Also if you hit the front too far up the wheel or to far back the carbon flexes then throws you back or slaps like early suspension forks did. lateral flex? Yes!! When climbing really hard with a wide bar I could rub the brake disk from side to side with each pedal stroke even with the front hub over tightened. I think the stainless dropout inserts are so good my QR isnt even making scratches in them. 

Sorry for the long rant but it was a poor way to loose 1lb off my bike and I dont think it rides any better. 

PS. I love the look of the steel fork. 400 bones would have got me a new saddle, pedals and tires or an xtr crank.


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## Mr Pink57 (Jul 30, 2009)

I noticed the Niner fork was more forgiving on my local trails vs my Cromoto I use now. The carbon definitely has more give I have never tried the standard style only a bladed Niner fork.

Overall I will say I just prefer a rigid bike to a HT so far, even with those GOD DAMN high speed braking areas it really shows on shitty people are to trails!


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

Mr Pink57 said:


> Overall I will say I just prefer a rigid bike to a HT so far, even with those GOD DAMN high speed braking areas it really shows on shitty people are to trails!


As a trail designer / builder / fixer, you hit a nerve so I had to +rep you on that.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

I've ridden a grand total of 2 steel forks: stock Monocog 29 and Vassago Odis. Imo, the ODIS completely destroys the Monocog fork in all aspects. I couldn't believe the difference.


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## stoker (Sep 26, 2011)

I have the Zombie 500mm Steel fork. I honestly believe I was the first person to buy this fork since I ordered it through BTI the moment it became available. Anyway I've had a lot of time with it and I think its fantastic. Be warned not all steel is the same and not all carbon is the same. This fork is way more forgiving than the Karate Monkey fork, which is also steel. I have heard good things about the carbon forks out there, but all of them are too short for my liking. 

Dont forget you have about 12" of travel in your forearms, use it! bend those elbows, pump and respond!


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## badgermtb (Jun 6, 2007)

I've owned/ridden: 

White Bros Crabon
Exotic Crabon
Salsa Cromoto (2)
Singular (490)
Niner steel (490 and 470)

The crabon fork was stiff...and not as "soft" riding as the steel forks. It seemed to punish me more, all other components being the same. My wrists were tired. It was light...almost too light, if that makes sense. I never felt confident in the crabon...I always was afraid I would snap it at the steer tube. I do not worry about breaking a steel fork. Weight be damned.

The Niner steel and Singular forks ride very well. Both are reynolds steel.

The Salsa forks are really very nice. They are tough, finished well, and ride pretty smooth.

I say go with steel if you go rigid. If you are going to spend 4hundo on a fork, ight as well buy a sus fork.


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## mr_chrome (Jan 17, 2005)

now to make you laugh........my stock KHS steel fork was pretty good but the front end was heavy; I enjoyed the ride, though, just hated climbing over obstacles........put a no-name CF 29er fork on and dropped two lbs., made the climbing much easier but CF is almost "bouncier" than steel.....CF has good rigidity (my right elbow / thumb attest to that): downhill sorta wicked but flats / uphill pretty great........


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