# Smart Trainer vs Weight Training for off season



## miles of pain (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm trying to come up with a plan for training this winter.
I have a wahoo kickr trainer, and a modest barbell/squat rack weight setup.

Last winter was my first time using a smart trainer, I started at a 245w FTP, so I'd say I'm kind of middle of the road fitness wise. Im 35.

I found it just too much work to stick to the smart trainer plan AND go hard on weight training. I never felt fresh and it was just a lot of time commitment. So this year, I'm thinking of selling the smart trainer and just focusing on weights.

Here's the thing - I realized I really rarely go on rides over 2 hours, most of my rides are about 75-90 minutes. The terrain where I live is steep, so much of the ride is anaerobic. I feel like the smart trainer plans are geared more towards long road rides spent mostly in lower heart rate zones than I typically find myself in. Also, I found it really hard to not miss a training day on the trainer - I think I need more flexibility than the smart trainer plans are geared towards. I'm not training for races, just to enjoy my rides more and ride faster. Is a smart trainer even smart for me?

I'm thinking my weight plan should include:

Compound movement heavy (Squats, Deadlift, Bench Press, Pull ups, Barbell Rows)
Include single-leg variants to make things more bike specific (ex Bulgarian split squats, lunges)
High reps to focus on muscular endurance
Short rest periods to keep heart rate high (Imagining this is how I keep my fitness over the winter)
Kettlebell circuits for anaerobic conditioning
Ride my bike outside when I can
What do you think, is this plan going to go well for me, or should I stick with the smart trainer?

_Wildcard option: sell the Kickr, and buy the $385 spin bike I just saw at costco. It'd save space in my already cramped workout area. No power meter or ERG, of course, but I could use my heart rate monitor at least._


----------



## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

The data is clear that you need to do both. Even steep climbs where you're huffing and puffing hard aren't "anaerobic." It's a popular misconception that's not an accurate description of what's happening physiologically. Lots of long easy miles at lower heart rates builds your aerobic base in ways that higher intensity work does not. If you put in that work you'll be able to go up sustained steeps faster at the same HR, or maintain your current max pace for longer. 

If you were feeling burnt out doing both my guess is that the trainer rides were too hard. The time commitment part is something that you can't really get around, though. There's a bunch of different physiological adaptations that occur in response to training and independently add up to increase your aerobic capacity. Some of these adaptations are maximized at high intensities and others at low intensities, and unfortunately the low-intensity ones require a lot of time. This article series is a pretty good primer on how endurance training works: Methods of Endurance Training » Bodyrecomposition

Dylan Johnson lays out a great basic season-long training plan in this video. It's also worth watching his videos on base training, weight lifting, and getting fast on <10 hrs/week in the saddle (everything on his channel is pretty great, really).





Yes, a spin bike and HRM will work. Just make sure you get something with magnetic resistance, friction ones are junk. I own this one and for what it costs it's pretty solid: https://www.walmart.com/ip/MaxKare-...VEGpvBB0XVQGQEAQYAiABEgKOOfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds. The pedals and saddle are junk and the computer isn't worth much.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I think the issues is the smart trainer training plans not the trainer itself.

the combination of heavy weight and intensity is very difficult to get right and very few would even really recommend it.

Why don’t you try using zwift for just endurance rides. Do some nice zone 2 work and combine that with gym sessions


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

miles of pain said:


> I'm trying to come up with a plan for training this winter.
> I have a wahoo kickr trainer, and a modest barbell/squat rack weight setup.
> 
> Last winter was my first time using a smart trainer, I started at a 245w FTP, so I'd say I'm kind of middle of the road fitness wise. Im 35.
> ...


A couple of thoughts:

1) Anaerobic efforts are going to be a very small portion of your ride. Unless your local hills are <1min, and you are going up them full tilt and falling over at the top, unable to ride for several minutes, from a physiological perspective they are almost entirely aerobic. Likely 85-15 or greater in favor of aerobic vs anaerobic. 









The Aerobic Energy System: What it is, Why it's Important, and How to Train it - TrainerRoad Blog


The aerobic energy system is the most important way a cyclist's body utilizes energy. How does it work and how can you train it?




www.trainerroad.com













Energy system contribution to 1500- and 3000-metre track running - PubMed


The aim of the present study was to quantify the contributions of the aerobic and anaerobic energy systems to 1500- and 3000-m track running events during all-out time-trials performed individually on a synthetic athletic track. Ten 3000-m (8 males, 2 females) and fourteen 1500-m (10 males, 4...




pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov













Energy system contributions in middle-distance running events - PubMed


The aim of this study was to estimate the energy contributions in middle-distance running events for male and female university athletes. The oxygen uptake (VO2) response during high-speed running was measured directly during exhaustive treadmill tests. Muscle mass was estimated using...




pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov





2) Most of those training plans are going be designed to build your tempo and threshold abilities. That will provide a larger "base" for the harder efforts, and should theoretically raise your power for shorter durations as well.

3) You don't necessarily need a very specific, highly regimented plan to make significant improvements. To eke out that last 5-10% of your absolute physiological potential? Sure. You can "just ride" 4-5 days a week, with one or two of them being hard tempo/interval days, and get stronger/faster.

4) What do you think weight training will do that a trainer won't? If you want to train shorter, harder intervals on one of your two hard days, do it. Do some 6x4min or 4x6min interval sets. Like you said, you aren't training for anything in particular. That said, even if you don't have any specific goals in mind, everyone needs a recovery week once in a while, so keep that in mind.


----------



## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> 4) What do you think weight training will do that a trainer won't?


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I like these threads as I'm a little over 3 weeks in to proper training and learning lots about myself and also from you guys and Dylan Johnson vids. I was also fortunate that one of the members of The Forum here reached out to me and was kind enough to share a ton of helpful knowledge with me and get me started. Thanks FJsnoozer!

Certainly I over did it at first, doing HIT essentially every training day. Trying to fit that in with my demanding family & professional life. It was too much but I did in fact feel substantial and nearly immediate gains.

Now I'm really focusing on Z2 volume training, no fancy plans needed or anything, I get my HIT from riding my bike, which is what it's all about for me, and starting this very day I'm incorporating a brief but intense weight lifting session 1-2x/ week.

Not surprisingly, I am not a very strong pedaling rider and my FTP test had some issues but only came in around 200w. Hoping this improves significantly by X-mas.

Now if I could just get my life to be calmer overall that would be the next piece of the puzzle.


----------



## codahale (Oct 6, 2018)

Keep the smart trainer, pay for a TrainerRoad account, and use their “Train Now” functionality to pick workouts. It’s easier to fit into a variable schedule: you choose a workout length and then it recommends options based on what you’ve been doing lately and how it’s gone. Pick a conservative weight lifting program (e.g. 5/3/1 with minimal accessory lifts) and slowly progress your training maxes. Go for a deload week more often than you think you should. Get good sleep.

It’s helpful to consider that trainer workouts aren’t simulations — they’re workouts, i.e. artificially constrained activities intended to impose demands to achieve specific adaptations. In the same way that squatting a 5x5 builds strength in activities other than squatting 5x5s, e.g. 3x20 sweet spot intervals are an imposed demand which produce specific metabolic adaptations which are useful for activities other than 3x20 sweet spot intervals.


----------



## miles of pain (Sep 11, 2009)

Thanks everyone for chiming in, sounds like the trainer would still be beneficial even if I can't stick to it very well. So hypothetically say I can commit to 2x 45min trainer workouts per week on flexible days, what types of workout should I be doing? Of course that "Train Now" function sounds nice and easy, but trying to get a better understanding here as well.



Le Duke said:


> 4) What do you think weight training will do that a trainer won't?


Good question that made me really think this out. Here's what I'm looking to get from weights, it's not just cycling:

Better leg power for up and over technical uphill moves
Better upper body strength for handling the bike
My upper body muscles get tired during/after rough downhills. More upper body muscular endurance should help me prevent crashes and ride longer.
My lower back gets tired on long downhills, I need a stronger core in general.
I have a muscular imbalance, my quads overpower my hams/glutes. I've had ongoing patella pain from this at times, among other issues. I need to strengthen my posterior chain.
I need to strengthen my upper back and do pulling exercises to combat working on a computer all day.
Functional strength is just nice to have in your day to day life.
Also, weight training is a hell of a lot more pleasant than riding the trainer.
I just got back from a favorite ride and got a PR on the whole loop. My legs feel barely phased, but my forearms and lats are tired af. Rough, fast downhill. I wore a heart rate monitor and according to my computer I was in Zone 3 12% (mostly at the start when I was going slow to warm up), Zone 4 65%, Zone 5 20%. Does that tell you anything?


----------



## miles of pain (Sep 11, 2009)

Oh yeah, another reason I'm looking at dumping the trainer altogether is I could sell the trainer as well as my road bike which I really hardly use otherwise. Nice chunk of change back in my pocket that I could use.


----------



## frdfandc (Sep 5, 2007)

I like using Zwift in the off season along with other exercises. This fall/winter I'll be on my trainer more (mtb is down right now) and try going to the gym for strength training (if the budget allows). If not, then I'll be buying dumbbells and some other equipment and do my own training at home.


----------



## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

miles of pain said:


> Good question that made me really think this out. Here's what I'm looking to get from weights, it's not just cycling:
> 
> Better leg power for up and over technical uphill moves
> Better upper body strength for handling the bike
> ...


It's like your broke into my brain and wrote a post for me why I want to start weight training. I'm jealous of people who can get motivated to sit on a trainer 3+ hours a week. I think I'm too ADD I just can't do it. Even road cycling doesn't keep my brain engaged and I get quite bored with it. So this winter I plan on doing weight training. I collected a small collection of weights and a bench. But here in Alabama I can still ride in the winter. In fact the NICA season starts in Jan. With practices T-Th-Su I'll be lifting M-W-F. Riding sweep behind the slowest riders and watching kids do skill practices isn't much of a workout though.


----------



## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Need to do both. Just sitting on a trainer and spinning doesn't give you everything you need for MTB.

But if you only have time for one type of training, then preference is resistance training with MTB specific motions. 

E.g. squats, lunges, shoulder presses, pushups, kettlebell swings, bridges, rows, and single leg/arm variations of the above to improve core strength and balance. Need to do them to a good tempo to get the heart rate up and also simulate interval efforts to closely mimic MTB style riding.

My favorite compound exercise of all time is Turkish getups, with a kettlebell.

During covid lockdown I did almost exclusively an MTB guided workout with freeweights and was able to maintain almost all of my fitness and mobility after 2 months.


----------

