# New Pics of the Versus Trigger



## liquidsystm (May 24, 2005)

Just got this pre production model built up in the shop, the thing is just beastly and sick. 
It has an extremely stiff rear end with the needle bearings and CNC'd part.

Versus Trigger specs:
- Needle bearings at all pivots with external grease ports
- Laterally stiff rear suspension
- Full custom CNC machined rear suspension components
- ISCG mounts, front derailleur capable
- Gusseted, "ONEPOINTFIVE" standard head tube, dual crown capable

Totally weight=40 lbs.


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## kadeater (Aug 16, 2005)

I very rarely post on bike porn but that is a goooooood lookin bike!


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2006)

I see a lot of banshee scream in that bike. Not that there is anything wrong with that.


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## hardcore newbie (Nov 6, 2004)

that bike is the tits!


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

I'm speachless.......


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

these will be poppin up around the bay soon , i love it


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## bedheadben (Jan 30, 2006)

wow, that looks nice! how much do they go for?


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

[email protected]! I'm in love! Throw a lighter build on that and it's absolutely perfect for me!


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## SecondSkin (Oct 17, 2005)

40lbs???? wow, that bike looks alot heavier than that.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Dang lookin forward to the Otter to drool on 1 in person.


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## Team ATG-Versus Colorado (Mar 24, 2006)

*Beauty and The Beast!*

These new rigs are ideal for Colorado's extreme riding conditions -- From dry dust to steam crossings -- Snow to Mud -- Versus externally greasable needle bearings are the cats @$$. Lube the zerks and wipe the dirty grease away! 3 Interface CNC'd lower junction (BB, Lower Pivot, Lower Shock Mount); Indestructable! Can't wait much more for my new Rig. --------------------> Ride Versus------------------->Run Marzocchi-------------------->

W4


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

very nice and clean looking


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> [email protected]! I'm in love! Throw a lighter build on that and it's absolutely perfect for me!


The gym is a good start, hehehe


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## mothahucker (Feb 6, 2006)

Maybe its just me, but it looks like the bottom bracket on that thing is like sixteen inches high in that first pic. How high is it really? nice ride, btw.


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## levee67 (May 13, 2004)

Whoaohohohoh said:


> I see a lot of banshee scream in that bike. Not that there is anything wrong with that.


My buddy just got one, too. It weighs more like 48 pounds. But we lined up the rear with a Banshee, and the Trigger's linkage is way more stout. This bike is a step beyond the Scream.

damon


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## RobsterCraw (Oct 19, 2004)

Is anyone else using needle bearings? Any engineers have some thoughts on this. I also do not know a damn thing about grease ports. I suck


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

RobsterCraw said:


> Is anyone else using needle bearings? Any engineers have some thoughts on this. I also do not know a damn thing about grease ports. I suck


The new Turner & Nicolai are using needle bearings instead of the normal Turner bushing. I am no engineer but the needle bearings are smoother & very solid under lateral loads. With the needle bearing the side load is going through the pivot bolt or axle. Roller bearings have flex, they are great as long as they go up & down but as soon as you push it sidways like cornering it flexes. Most frame manufactures dont use needles because they are, more expensive, must line bore the the hole & they need to be pressed in it would cost too much money & time for a mass produced frame builder. Very solid but expensive.


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## austinb89 (Nov 6, 2004)

that is the niecest one i have scene so far, everythign is nice on it, great desgin etc. i want one


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

austinb89 said:


> that is the niecest one i have scene so far, everythign is nice on it, great desgin etc. i want one


See ya at the Otter.


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## matt (Feb 2, 2004)

austinb89 said:


> that is the niecest one i have scene so far, everythign is nice on it, great desgin etc. i want one


It is nice looking. Design is the same though, what is so great about it?

The BB does look insanely high though, and there is no way that bike weighs 40lbs. Maybe if you take off the wheels, but I'm guessing that is 45-50 with that build.

Looks like a quality bike from Versus though...


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## RobsterCraw (Oct 19, 2004)

matt said:


> The BB does look insanely high though, and there is no way that bike weighs 40lbs. Maybe if you take off the wheels, but I'm guessing that is 45-50 with that build.


Maybe it has the new Marzocchi 888SL. 
Actually with the rantings going on about the 66SL, I wouldn't mind seeing a 888 SL. I still wonder how plush and stiff the new Boxxer WC is.


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## gemini2000 (Apr 14, 2005)

bb WAY too high sort it


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

The BB on the Trigger meassured with a Fox DH40 fork is 15.2 or 14.2 at sag. This can be compaired to SC VP Free at 14.8, Specialized Demo 9 at 15.3 or the Banshee Scream at 16 with a 8in travel fork. So if you look at the numbers it is no taller.


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## matt (Feb 2, 2004)

dogonfr said:


> The BB on the Trigger meassured with a Fox DH40 fork is 15.2 or 14.2 at sag. This can be compaired to SC VP Free at 14.8, Specialized Demo 9 at 15.3 or the Banshee Scream at 16 with a 8in travel fork. So if you look at the numbers it is no taller.


15.2 is pretty damn high. The Demo has a 14.6 in the low/mid suspension setting. That is still a high BB at 15.2.


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## PeterLucas (Dec 6, 2005)

15.2 is high, but with sag... This bike is a bigger version of the Redesigned Blitz.
I was out riding yesterday on a local trail. The road gap on the trail used to be a northshore ladder but was recently changed to a large kicker at the top. I wass unsure of what the bike could handle because this is a big road gap. 15 foot drop and 25 foot gap. The Bike crused off the lip perfectly almost like it was a hardtail. The thing that amazed me the most was the impact I got as the rider. The progression rate on these bikes is just amazine and absolutly perfect. The bike road away clean with me on it.. super sick bike! if your looking for a BIGGER bikethan the Blitz, the Trigger is the way to go. For big freeriding, don't cout the Blitz out.. trust me!























































​


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

PL next time rotate the pic  
Pictures can be decisiving, what looks akward might be perfect. Pictures are great to look at but riding is soo much better you get to really know what is going on.


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## liquidsystm (May 24, 2005)

sick ride lucas...got any action pics?


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## gams01 (Sep 28, 2004)

*Action pics*



liquidsystm said:


> sick ride lucas...got any action pics?


No chain, no action.


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## austinb89 (Nov 6, 2004)

matt said:


> It is nice looking. Design is the same though, what is so great about it?
> 
> The BB does look insanely high though, and there is no way that bike weighs 40lbs. Maybe if you take off the wheels, but I'm guessing that is 45-50 with that build.
> 
> Looks like a quality bike from Versus though...


i just think the frame is really smooth and sleak. then not to mentition how that one is built up its just sick. the design is pretty common, basically a stinky, banshee, etc but that frame is deff beefier then the stinky and the same as the scream if not more. seems like it would be a great freeride rig.

i think the bb looks the way it does becuase the picture angle, sure if it is 15in it probly wouldnt feel like that cuase of sag (like previously said) it is a new type of design for versus so im sure they will fix that in the 07's and your probly right with the weight of that beast, but what can u expect if it did weigh 40lbs it be amazing


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

austinb89 said:


> i think the bb looks the way it does becuase the picture angle, sure if it is 15in it probly wouldnt feel like that cuase of sag (like previously said) it is a new type of design for versus so im sure they will fix that in the 07's and your probly right with the weight of that beast, but what can u expect if it did weigh 40lbs it be amazing


If you check out bikes in the same catagory 15 is not uncommon. A Demo 9 in the high/mid is 15.35in & in the low/med 14.6in.


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## vexhex (Sep 18, 2005)

*mine is rocking it hard*

so far i have to say i love mine.

i have an XL frame - wish the seat would drop down about another 2 inches, but I am dealing. the rear is super solid. just raced the CHDH after having the bike for a week with 4 rides on it. the rear did not flex at all around the burms, felt just like my old hardtail. i was able to really stick the burms and know where the wheel would end up.

talk to herb at versus and he can also explain something about the bearings being incased in another very hard axle like thing...can't really explain it. he said it is the same design as some tanks use.

mine is 48 pounds with a 05 66rc up front and fox dhx5. i could shave some weight off if it if i didn't use 2.7 tires w/ dh tubes.

as far as jumping it is very solid and courage building. when i first got it i had some trouble with a feeling of going over the bars on rolling some steep stuff. but i have tuned some stuff and got a dif saddle and seatpost (dropping the saddle about 1 1/2 inch with smaller xc style seat) as well as getting the suspension tuned right, it has been spot on now.

ill post some picts/action picts when i get a chance.

good going herb!


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## PeterLucas (Dec 6, 2005)

I don't have any action shots yet but this weekend we are doing a photoshoot on that road gap depending on the rain over here.. 

















​ Check out this sick ass team yo!


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## Wherebob (Mar 29, 2006)

I don't know where I've been but I have never heard of Versus? LOL

Cool pics man


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## kash$ (Mar 30, 2006)

*trigger looks sweet*

new bike looks great, and from talking to versus i know they have done their homework. seems like you can build a sweet dh/freeride at under 40# that can take a beating with the right part setup. i have one on order and cant wait to build her up.


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## ronny (Apr 2, 2004)

I see a lot of Buck Rogers in that funky looking Rocker design.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

thats one realy sick looking bike. I love that green paint job!


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## jeppe (Jan 25, 2006)

Nice......just wish it was a real 4-bar...


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## PeterLucas (Dec 6, 2005)

Define "real 4-bar" and what is better about a "real 4-bar" suspension design than what the Versus Trigger and Blitz provide? 

Note: For all people that will be at sea otter, be sure to come and check out the Versus tent because there will be 4 Blitzs and 2 Triggers for all to check out!


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## jeppe (Jan 25, 2006)

The rear axle on Versus Trigger moves just like in a single-pivot, because there are no pivots between the main pivot and the rear axle. That's why it's called a faux-four-bar. The rest of the linkage just changes the load on the shock (might make the suspension more progressive).
A four-bar with a Horst-link is a real 4-bar.
Single-pivots with a fixed (not floating) rear brake suffer from brake-jack....some more than others. In a real 4-bar, the path of the rear axle is different (due to the pivot between the main pivot and the rear axle) -> this can eliminate brake-jack and make the rear suspension more active during braking.

I think there was a thread about the new Turners (faux-four-bars). The thread handled faux-four-bar vs real four-bar issue pretty broadly. Mabye someone who remembers can link it here.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

jeppe said:


> I think there was a thread about the new Turners (faux-four-bars). The thread handled faux-four-bar vs real four-bar issue pretty broadly. Mabye someone who remembers can link it here.


Pick up Bike magazine may 2006 page 037, 7 reasons why Turner dropped the Horst link.


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## jeppe (Jan 25, 2006)

May 2006......whoa, we just got to April and May is out already?

I'll try to find the magazine. Are the reasons given by David Turner? Cause hes point of view is perhaps not the most objective one here. He can't say, it was a bad call.
I've heard enough of DT claiming that there's really no big difference between Horst and faux-four-bar, to know not to believe every word he's saying (whenever his own intrest is on the line).


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

jeppe said:


> May 2006......whoa, we just got to April and May is out already?
> 
> I'll try to find the magazine. Are the reasons given by David Turner? Cause hes point of view is perhaps not the most objective one here. He can't say, it was a bad call.
> I've heard enough of DT claiming that there's really no big difference between Horst and faux-four-bar, to know not to believe every word he's saying (whenever his own intrest is on the line).


Mine came in the mail yesterday and I read that article. He does give reasons, 7 to be exact  
Mainly the reason he dropped it is because it got very expensive paying horst-link royalties to Specialized and Ells(not)worth.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

jeppe said:


> May 2006......whoa, we just got to April and May is out already?
> 
> I'll try to find the magazine. Are the reasons given by David Turner? Cause hes point of view is perhaps not the most objective one here. He can't say, it was a bad call.
> I've heard enough of DT claiming that there's really no big difference between Horst and faux-four-bar, to know not to believe every word he's saying (whenever his own intrest is on the line).


Magazine industry bro, behind on news ahead of time.
Of course DT is answering the questions. Like Khemical pointed out he got tired of paying for a design he helped with. There is no perfect bike, FSR you are limited on seat height, VPP wears bearings, the whojamjig bounces across the thingamajang. If you dont like the linkage of the Versus then look at all the other manufactures that use the same setup, they are all bad?


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## J_B (Mar 29, 2004)

I checked out the Versus tent at CHDH and they had a few built up. I can't remember who I talked to but they were way cool and answered all my q's. Versus has some sweet frames....but thought the hardtail was bad ass though.


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

dogonfr said:


> the whojamjig bounces across the thingamajang.)


That's my new quote.


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## jeppe (Jan 25, 2006)

Saying it costs us to make good frames, so well make cheaper, that are not that good, is bad bike designing.
Besides the cost of patetent per frame is not that much really.
I'm not saying the Horst-link is the only option, but they could have designed their own suspension system, not to go back to the old-one and to ignore and belittle it's problems. I respect companies like Specialized who have done a lot of research to take the field forward. Turner shows that they're not interested in taking the field forward by going instead backwards. I'm not against single-pivots, there are suitable applications for them. S-P is simple and can be made light (lightweight XC-bikes) or really strong (DH-bikes).

What bugs me the most is claiming that the single-pivot doesn't have the problems that DT claimed existing when they still used the Horst-link. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what the braking forces do in a S-P frame. The laws of physics don't change. If the problem was there 5 years ago, it's still there if the design is the same. It's like taking a 10 year old suspension fork and hoping it works better now, than it did before. Nope, the problems are still there...

Anyway.......I'm leaving now, gonna try to find the Bike Mag.


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## jeppe (Jan 25, 2006)

Couldn't find the Bike Mag from the biggest local bookstore.

So could someone tell what the 7 reasons were?


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## AZ Saint (Jan 13, 2004)

These posts are always popping up. I think it's about time for Versus to pay for advertising.

EDIT - I was referring to adverti$ing on MTBR.


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## liquidsystm (May 24, 2005)

AZ Saint said:


> These posts are always popping up. I think it's about time for Versus to pay for advertising.


Versus advertises in Decline and Bike Mag


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

jeppe said:


> Couldn't find the Bike Mag from the biggest local bookstore.
> 
> So could someone tell what the 7 reasons were?


It's going to cost you 2 round trip tickets for 2 weeks all expenses paid & guided tour for the 2 weeks of riding.


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## vexhex (Sep 18, 2005)

*action shot*

not a great one - post a better when it happens


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## jeppe (Jan 25, 2006)

#1: Okay, I know that small things can make a big difference, but a few bucks on a $ 1000+ frame costs too much?

#2: Less relevant? As I said, the laws of physics don't change, problems in designs don't disapper over the years if the design isn't changed. Surely they had more problems 30 years ago, but the basics are still the same.

#3: The fact that people liked DHR doesn't mean it's neccessarily better than Horst, because there hasn't been a Horst-link alternative from Turner to compare to.

#4: "Only" 1.1 mm is not that small, because small differences can make a big difference when they're in the right (or in this case: wrong) place

#5: no comments

#6: Sure, it might be a little stiffer (but just as he said, the Horst-link near the rear axle is a stiff design), and it sure isn't all bad, but he ignores all the problems. That's not a real reason to give up on Horst-link. All of those advantages could've been attained by Horst.

#7: no comments

---

Single-pivot is a good design with its problems. No design is perfect, but IMO Horst is better. The reason I don't like these new Turners is DT now claiming the exact opposite from the things he was saying when Turner still used the Horst-link design. This commercial propaganda pisses me off from time to time. I respect people who stand behind their words, people who don't change sides whenever it's in the interst of oneself.


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## vexhex (Sep 18, 2005)

jeppe said:


> I respect people who stand behind their words, people who don't change sides whenever it's in the interst of oneself.


i hear ya - but you are starting to sound like a Bush supporter.


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## Fillmoe Slim (Oct 23, 2005)

The way I see it is there is no horst link bike that can do anything a single pivot can't. It's more about the rider than anything else. The Horst Link nazi azz thread jacking get's annoying. As long as you know the difference who cares what it's called.


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## Fillmoe Slim (Oct 23, 2005)

BTW. The Versus are sick looking bikes.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

jeppe said:


> #1: Okay, I know that small things can make a big difference, but a few bucks on a $ 1000+ frame costs too much?
> 
> #5: no comments
> 
> ...


#1 if the money came out of your pocket you would raising hell, but where you live you can make a bike with a Horst link & not pay the devil.

#5 real world does'nt lie.

#7 bushings offer much less flex than ball bearings, not as good as Versus needle bearings.

#8 Where are my round trip tickets 

You would jump ship if you had to keep track of how many frames you sold & how much you have to now pay out to Specialized. Specialized is like HD in the moto industry, sued over the name pig.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Fillmoe Slim said:


> The way I see it is there is no horst link bike that can do anything a single pivot can't. It's more about the rider than anything else. The Horst Link nazi azz thread jacking get's annoying. As long as you know the difference who cares what it's called.


Tellin it like it is!! 

Goin to the Otter?


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## coma13 (Sep 3, 2005)

jeppe said:


> #1: Okay, I know that small things can make a big difference, but a few bucks on a $ 1000+ frame costs too much?


Turner is far from a large company, When you're building a bike at the levels that they are, you aren't turning a very large profit by selling at the price that they do. The reason for that is that they are all built in the US which has obvious higher overall costs and environmental restraints to deal with that will raise manufacturing prices as opposed to Taiwan for example.



> #2: Less relevant? As I said, the laws of physics don't change, problems in designs don't disapper over the years if the design isn't changed. Surely they had more problems 30 years ago, but the basics are still the same.


He's not talking about the relevance of the problem, he's talking about the relevance of the pivot point and how it reacts to the forces it's trying to counter. As he said, to try and increase stiffness, manufacturers have been moving the pivot further and further back on the chainstay and lessening its neutralizing qualities to the point of them being so minimal that moving the pivot had no effective change on performance.



> #3: The fact that people liked DHR doesn't mean it's neccessarily better than Horst, because there hasn't been a Horst-link alternative from Turner to compare to.


Again, here I think you're misinterpreting what he's saying. He wasn't saying that it was better than a Horst link model, he was just saying that it worked, period, and people liked it.



> #4: "Only" 1.1 mm is not that small, because small differences can make a big difference when they're in the right (or in this case: wrong) place


1.1mm was the difference in the position of the wheel at the end of the stroke. This is such a tiny, negligible number that there is no way you could tell the compass, wheel deflection and tire deformation account for at least 10 times that much difference in where your wheel is actually contacting the derrain.



> #6: Sure, it might be a little stiffer (but just as he said, the Horst-link near the rear axle is a stiff design), and it sure isn't all bad, but he ignores all the problems. That's not a real reason to give up on Horst-link. All of those advantages could've been attained by Horst.


He pretty specifically said that those advantages had been sacraficed in the pursuit of a stiffer rear end by moving hte pivot all the way back. If the pivot was further up the chainstay, and then all of a sudden switched to the seatstay, then yeah, you would feel a difference, but in it's current location, it's not doing much of anything.

That's my $0.02.


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## jeppe (Jan 25, 2006)

coma13 said:


> He's not talking about the relevance of the problem, he's talking about the relevance of the pivot point and how it reacts to the forces it's trying to counter.


Yeah, I noticed that he was talking about the relevacy of the design (=pivot point), but the problem is caused by the pivot point.
The Horst-link is usually 2-3" from the rear axle. DT is now saying, moving a pivot point by 3" doesn't make a big difference.
That's not exactly what he was saying a few years back, when Turners had Horsts.
Ok, I'll admit it's less relevant now, but not irrelevant.



> Again, here I think you're misinterpreting what he's saying. He wasn't saying that it was better than a Horst link model, he was just saying that it worked, period, and people liked it.


I too believe that the DHR is a good frame, but it's irrelevant to the decision of whether or not to drop the Horst-link. Surely people liked the old 5-Spot, 6-Pack and Flux aswell. Guess that makes it even... Yes, SP is an option, but thats not a *reason*.



> 1.1mm was the difference in the position of the wheel at the end of the stroke. This is such a tiny, negligible number that there is no way you could tell the compass, wheel deflection and tire deformation account for at least 10 times that much difference in where your wheel is actually contacting the derrain.


It's not all about the difference at the end of the stroke, but also at the beginning of and during the stroke. If you draw the path of the rear axle in a Horst and SP, you can notice that it's different. The axle in the DHR starts moving towards the rear, but the axle on most Horsts start moving towards the front.


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## jzt (Apr 20, 2004)

what's the frame weight with DHX coil for the Blitz?


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## jzt (Apr 20, 2004)

that green is sick btw, you guys should offer it as an option. (website lists only white & black as color options)

one of my suppliers is the local distributor for Versus - hope to be able to see the Blitz II up close soon.


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## samanderson4 (May 31, 2004)

Just bought a Vesus BLitz II today. I choose it over the Bottle Rocket for a few reasons.
1) Longer set tube for some all mountain riding
2) Needle bearings for lateral stiffness
3) Still had a low standover
4) Extra inch of travel
5) Lower weight

I hope it works out for me. This is my 5th bike this year alone. I'm looking for that "one bike" and I think this might be it.

SAm


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## derfernerf (Jun 25, 2006)

on the orangeish bike in the pics with the riders and the bikes that ia a weird looking fork what is that caled and how much is it


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