# “The e mtb will replace the mountain bike”



## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

It may not replace it, but it will be the majority eventually. Reason #9 is the most threatening aspect to the mtb.

https://www.ispo.com/en/trends/id_79706680/-the-e-mtb-will-replace-the-mountain-bike-.html


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## Double Butted (Jan 27, 2015)

ALimon said:


> It may not replace it, but it will be the majority eventually. Reason #9 is the most threatening aspect to the mtb.
> 
> https://www.ispo.com/en/trends/id_79706680/-the-e-mtb-will-replace-the-mountain-bike-.html


I can see it. Although for purist and racers I think standards will stick around. Though UCI has now starting ebike racing so..there's that.

Having ridden an ebike for over a year, my other 4 bikes have mostly just been sitting around. Feels like you have fresh legs every ride, for the whole ride, it's addictive. That's why it boggles my mind that so many are opposed to them and for such silly reasons that aren't even legitimate reasons. Trail impacts, ride dynamics...just like any other MTB bike, but better.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Just like electric toothbrushes have wiped out manual ones?


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

I totally agree. I’ve raced mtb’s, and it’s fun. But racing an eMTB would be a blast! Fun on another level.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> Just like electric toothbrushes have wiped out manual ones?


Wait a minute? Aren't you from Scotland? Scots and brits aren't known for having bad teeth. If you're still brushing manually I now understand why. Elecrtric toothbrushes dramatically reduce plaque and gingivitis and result in better overall oral health. How do I know this, both my parents are dentist. Looks like e power beats manual power in the bathroom too!

Not only do you whine about gravel bikes, now you're whining about electric toothbrushes too? My word.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Never underestimate lazy people.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

The fact that electric toothbrushes have not taken over from manual ones has nothing to do with whether or not they are more effective tools. Think, man.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> The fact that electric toothbrushes have not taken over from manual ones has nothing to do with whether or not they are more effective tools. Think, man.


Practically everyone I know has one. Everywhere you go they sell them. Pretty popular if you ask me. No reason not to have one unless you can't afford one, which might be true with e bikes as well.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

life behind bars said:


> Never underestimate lazy people.


Lazy people like those who drive a car? Use a microwave? Dishwasher? Washing machine? Garage door opener? Channel changer?

We're all lazy bro!


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Have electric toothbrushes replaced conventional ones, yes or no?


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## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

garbage article


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

garbage article from garbage idiots who write garbage for clicks


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

life behind bars said:


> Never underestimate lazy people.


Dude, you are scaring us. Quit stalking the eBike forum and go ride your gravel bike in a circle.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

honkinunit said:


> Dude, you are scaring us. Quit stalking the eBike forum and go ride your gravel bike in a circle.


Quit trolling. You have nothing to contribute. No reason to be here.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

ALimon said:


> I totally agree. I've raced mtb's, and it's fun. But racing an eMTB would be a blast! Fun on another level.


They already exist- motorcycle races.

I read an article about ebike races though and the called them e-prix, which fits.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

Double Butted said:


> I can see it. Although for purist and racers I think standards will stick around. Though UCI has now starting ebike racing so..there's that.
> 
> Having ridden an ebike for over a year, my other 4 bikes have mostly just been sitting around. Feels like you have fresh legs every ride, for the whole ride, it's addictive. That's why it boggles my mind that so many are opposed to them and for such silly reasons that aren't even legitimate reasons. Trail impacts, ride dynamics...just like any other MTB bike, but better.


Those aren't fresh legs, its called atrophy.


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

ALimon said:


> Lazy people like those who drive a car? Use a microwave? Dishwasher? Washing machine? Garage door opener? Channel changer?
> 
> We're all lazy bro!


:thumbsup:..............:thumbsup:


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## Sideknob (Jul 14, 2005)

Wanting petrol assisted bike. A P-bike, if you will.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

and computers have replaced paper...



Mr Pig said:


> Just like electric toothbrushes have wiped out manual ones?


Okay, but seriously, why do people care so much? I mean, do you care that I like to read paper books? Do you care that I like using a toothbrush that is quiet? Do you care that I like pedaling a bike and doing it on my own power?

I find it so weird that people care about what other people do.

Weird shite, this is truly the age of outrage ... as if there are no more important issues to be concerned with.

Posts like this are the primary reason I avoid this forum.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Uh oh, looks like a fight between the ebikers is ebreaking out!


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

From one of the few ebikers around here that I have respect for:



Moe Ped said:


> Speaking of e-bikes; they're great for hauling trail work tools but they're detrimental to maintaining cardio conditioning IMHO. I gained 10 # when I started riding e-bikes about 50% of the time.


Just what this country needs.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

chazpat said:


> From one of the few ebikers around here that I have respect for:
> 
> Just what this country needs.


Completely disagree. Ebike spinning in fat burning heart rate zone - plenty of speed vs, an-aerobic mtbing trying to get to speed.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

Nurse Ben said:


> and computers have replaced paper...
> 
> Okay, but seriously, why do people care so much? I mean, do you care that I like to read paper books? Do you care that I like using a toothbrush that is quiet? Do you care that I like pedaling a bike and doing it on my own power?
> 
> ...


They only care because they're bored to death with their own lives. What other explanation is there? I'm too busy loving what I'm doing to even care about what others are doing. Only the envious and jealous hate on others.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

ALimon said:


> They only care because they're bored to death with their own lives. What other explanation is there? I'm too busy loving what I'm doing to even care about what others are doing. Only the envious and jealous hate on others.


Are you in 5th grade, seriously?


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> Okay, but seriously, why do people care so much?


I'm not saying that I do. What I am saying is that the assertion is flawed. History is littered with inventions that were heralded as about to take over but didn't. Nor am I saying that eBikes will not become more popular but taking over? That's a big jump.

For eBikes to take over several things would have to happen. Firstly, the cost would have to come down to the level of the average mountain bike and below. Realistically, that's not going to happen, ever. Certainly not without major sacrifices in reliability and performance and even then, they would still cost a lot more than the average bike.

Secondly, all of the people who ride bikes for fitness would have to decide not to. And that's a lot of people. I covered over fifty-miles at the weekend, same the weekend before. How many miles would I have to do on an eBike to attain the same level of workout and why would I want to do that? I like the workout! I value it. I need it.

But the major reason eBikes will never take over is the electric toothbrush argument. Electric toothbrushes have been around for a very long time, decades. They have probably peaked in terms of development and economy yet still account for a relatively small slice of toothbrush sales. Why? Because for many people the toothbrush is a cheap, elegant and simple tool that works perfectly well and investing more money, time and complexity into the task seems counter-intuitive if not foolish.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> Have electric toothbrushes replaced conventional ones, yes or no?


I could ask you a similar question, has a manual toothbrush made an electric toothbrush obsolete? Yes or no? The obvious answer is no, but both items are being used as we speak


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

sfgiantsfan said:


> Are you in 5th grade, seriously?


I'm wondering if you as an adult? has grasped this knowledge yet? I would find other people to bust on, maybe not cyclists, that's a start. I can hear you now, "ebikers aren't cyclists.. blah blah blah. Always judging the unknown.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Mr. Pigs quote:

Secondly, all of the people who ride bikes for fitness would have to decide not to. And that's a lot of people. I covered over fifty-miles at the weekend, same the weekend before. How many miles would I have to do on an eBike to attain the same level of workout and why would I want to do that? I like the workout! I value it. I need it. 

Congrats on your mileage bro- I'm sure you had your strava on? On an ebike you could do 20miles and get WAAAY more work out in half the time. Just don't turn it on! See, saved you some time so you can post more KOM, you bad a**!


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

honkinunit said:


> Dude, you are scaring us. Quit stalking the eBike forum and go ride your gravel bike in a circle.


Go eat a bowl of richards.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Gutch said:


> Congrats on your mileage bro- I'm sure you had your strava on?


Never had Strava, don't want it, don't even use a cycle computer.



ALemon said:


> I could ask you a similar question, has a manual toothbrush made an electric toothbrush obsolete?


I'm not the who's making the silly assertion. You are the one who has started a whole new thread about the notion that eBikes will take over from conventional ones and are yet to back it up with anything resembling reason. Wishful thinking is not evidence.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> I'm not saying that I do. What I am saying is that the assertion is flawed. History is littered with inventions that were heralded as about to take over but didn't. Nor am I saying that eBikes will not become more popular but taking over? That's a big jump.
> 
> For eBikes to take over several things would have to happen. Firstly, the cost would have to come down to the level of the average mountain bike and below. Realistically, that's not going to happen, ever. Certainly not without major sacrifices in reliability and performance and even then, they would still cost a lot more than the average bike.
> 
> ...


Electric toothbrushes account for about 1/3 of toothbrush sales. Here in the US 20% of the population lives in poverty. And another 20% very close to it. That's about 130,000 people. Electric toothbrushes are luxury items for the poor. Households struggling to survive wouldn't be purchasing those items. So if 1/3 of the 320 million use electric toothbrushes, and 130 million are eliminated, that means 1 in 2 own an electric toothbrush.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

I think ebikes will eventually be really, really popular. I love mine, I can haul 2 kids and 50 pounds of groceries at 20 mph. A real car replacement for families, it's awesome.

That said, most people think spending >$200 on a bike is insane. And technology of all sorts has *thus far* failed to kill off the basic safety bicycle (people put motors on bikes a few other times before in history, after all). They're essentially the same machines they were in the late 1800s, albeit with better brakes and more gears. Nothing on a current bike would be unrecognizable or inconceivable to the Wright brothers. 

I'd compare bicycles with something like a chair, or a wheelbarrow (or, indeed, a toothbrush). Sure, there are chairs that massage you while you sit, or that you can push a button to recline/change positions, and there are wheelbarrows with motors that let you haul a TON of stuff (I've used one and even managed not to kill myself with it, it was terrifying) but most people find the same basic tool/item that has been around for millennia to do the job cheaply and reliably. 

Plus, it doesn't matter if ebikes someday outsell normal bikes. There will be plenty of choices of both types regardless and everyone can still have fun. 

My personal feeling is that mountain bike tech in general (including but not limited to electric motors) will eventually make speed differentials hard to handle on MUTs with pedestrians/hikers. We'll see more bike only and no-bike trails, and fewer true multi use ones, especially as population grows (especially in the western US). 

It will be interesting to see what other bike related tech comes from the advent of Li-Ion batteries. I'd *love* a little IR camera or low powered radar (or both together) system to warn me of oncoming traffic in blind areas of trail, for example. Probably doable with a reliable power source available, it's just a matter of time. 

-Walt


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Jesus why is everyone still going nuts over ebikes.

They can be a bigger problem than those that are totally pro-ebike will admit. CAN be. Conversions, modifications etc making them way over powered and essentially electric dirt bikes with pedals. Been there seen it happen.

But in standard oem format from the proper bike brands, WHY DO PEOPLE HATE THEM SO MUCH??? I mean seriously, calm down. Pedal assist ebikes in oem form are of 0 concern and have no effect on anyone besides angering strava addicts. Far from powerful enough to cause any issues and not much if any faster than fast/strong riders. 

I've demoed them a couple times. And one thing I never see these article or reviews address is how much they suck in trails that are tight and techy. Too cumbersome to deal with. I was having fun on them in fast flow and was nice not even starting to breath hard after longer climbs. But I lost any feeling of accomplishment (purely a personal thing there).

Ffs I never broke a sweat on those demos but the latest and greatest specialized after I hit a tight, windy section full of rocks and roots I was begging for my rigid fat bike which was sitting at the demo tent. My trail bike was back at my campsite a far bit further away and didn't care, just wanted to get back to my bikes. Those ebikes are just cumbersome turds even compared to a rigid fat bike with 26x4.7" tires.

I had fun the rest of the ride, lots of smiles but I avoided those areas after that. Overall except for climbs my pure pedal bikes we're more fun FOR ME.

Did I see a single reason they couldn't be out on the trails, nope not a single reason. Not enough power to do anything to cause issues. If others find them fun and have the deep pockets to deal with them, ENJOY!!!

Will I buy one? Thinking about converting my current (2011) mukluk for commuting. I will never trade my trail bikes for an ebike unless health forces me to.

But I do agree, they make for lazy riding. You don't have to work near as hard to get places, at least until tech is involved. But who cares??? It's a person's choice and as long as they are as respectful and cool as anyone else, let's go for a ride.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> Never had Strava, don't want it, don't even use a cycle computer.
> 
> I'm not the who's making the silly assertion. You are the one who has started a whole new thread about the notion that eBikes will take over from conventional ones and are yet to back it up with anything resembling reason. Wishful thinking is not evidence.


 You do realize you're in an ebike forum? I thought an e bike forum was for those interested in e bikes to post topics and have discussions related to the topics. But for some reason the anti e bike crowd seems to think it's ok to join threads for no other reason than to stir **** up. I think it might be time for mtbr to start booting those who are obvious trollers to topics. If you don't have anything to contribute there's really no reason to be here.

I'm not a single speeder, so for me to jump in a single speed forum and start bashing singlespeeds would be idiotic.


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## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

Here's my thoughts. If there is ever a time when emtb replace traditional pedal mtbs then the sport as we know it has died and those bikes will likely be riding around small isolated parks doing little circles like hamsters in a wheel. Mtb access to wilderness trails will have be shut out by the many entities that loath the fact that someone would bring a motorized vehicle into their sanctuary from the world of man and their machines.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Lemonaid said:


> Here's my thoughts. If there is ever a time when emtb replace traditional pedal mtbs then the sport as we know it has died and those bikes will likely be riding around small isolated parks doing little circles like hamsters in a wheel. Mtb access to wilderness trails will have be shut out by the many entities that loath the fact that someone would bring a motorized vehicle into their sanctuary from the world of man and their machines.


E-motorized bikes won't ever fully supplant mountain bikes. There are places that are not suited for motorized vehicles, just as there are places not suited to mountain bikes.


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## Zinfan (Jun 6, 2006)

sfgiantsfan said:


> Those aren't fresh legs, its called atrophy.


I'm curious as to your thoughts on downhill mtb's? Bikes designed so radically that pedaling them is difficult but they are tailor made for bike parks with lifts or shuttle rides and steep downhill runs. Are these bikes also a blight on the mtb scene as it seems for many here the one true goal of mountain biking is to use them as fitness tools above all else and anything that might make it easier is forbidden. Come to think of it how do you feel about multiple gears allowing those not quite fit enough to get up the hills better?

I know that e-mtb access to trails is a touchy subject and I also feel as posted up thread that a unmodified class 1 mtb limited to 20 mph is not going to have much if any impact on trail degradation. Having said that I also see quite clearly that there is much room for e-mtb's to be hacked to allow for higher speeds, in fact while searching google to see what the mode settings on my Shimano E-8000 motor were, I'd guess that 3/4 of the first page of search results were links to places and products to bypass the speed limiter and soup up the bike. This will be a problem that makes the idea of just banning all e-mtb's the easy choice for some trail managers.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Gutch said:


> Completely disagree. Ebike spinning in fat burning heart rate zone - plenty of speed vs, an-aerobic mtbing trying to get to speed.


Maybe if you do it right, but I remember another ebiker posting about what a great workout he'd gotten, threw out a bunch of numbers and made some claims. Someone, I think it was Moe Ped, actually broke down the data and showed that the majority of the "workout" was done by the motor.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

I've been riding my e-MTB for three plus years, many times with my wife or friends and we've never had an unpleasant incident with any bicyclists of the hundreds encountered. Most only want to discuss the technology; some take test rides. This is a forum problem created by the few e- individuals who infest every thread.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

fos'l said:


> I've been riding my e-MTB for three plus years, many times with my wife or friends and we've never had an unpleasant incident with any bicyclists of the hundreds encountered. Most only want to discuss the technology; some take test rides. This is a forum problem created by the few e- individuals who infest every thread.


I completely agree. I rode a Levo for a few months and encountered many riders on the trail and I never heard one negative comment. Lots of curiosity, lots of "that's cool" and many "I want one". A far cry from the few that do infest every thread.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

life behind bars said:


> E-motorized bikes won't ever fully supplant mountain bikes. There are places that are not suited for motorized vehicles, just as there are places not suited to mountain bikes.


Absolutely right. E bikes will eventually gain access, but not access to every trail or area and that's how it should be.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

ALimon said:


> You do realize you're in an ebike forum?


Do you realise the eBike forum is in a mountain bike forum? I am interested in eBikes, I'm just not pro-eBike. Are you suggesting that only people who agree with the pro-eBike agenda should be allowed to have a voice? So, if we can't question the pro-eBike stance in the eBike forum, where can we articulate those opinions? Anywhere else would be the wrong forum!

Meanwhile, back at the ranch..

You said:



> Electric toothbrushes account for about 1/3 of toothbrush sales.


Ok, that's not taking over is it? So what if some people can't buy them because they are too expensive. That applies to eBikes too! Please try to be accurate in what you say. If you really meant to say:

"eBikes will be the majority eventually, among the minority who can afford them and don't think they suck"

That's what you meant isn't it?


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## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

Walt said:


> I think ebikes will eventually be really, really popular. I love mine, I can haul 2 kids and 50 pounds of groceries at 20 mph. A real car replacement for families, it's awesome.
> 
> That said, most people think spending >$200 on a bike is insane. And technology of all sorts has *thus far* failed to kill off the basic safety bicycle (people put motors on bikes a few other times before in history, after all). They're essentially the same machines they were in the late 1800s, albeit with better brakes and more gears. Nothing on a current bike would be unrecognizable or inconceivable to the Wright brothers.
> 
> ...


I agree Walt. I'm seeing more and more conflicts with regular bikes not just ebikes on my local trails to the point where equestrian riders completely stop going to some of them realizing they are "mtb" now and hikers tend to avoid the most popular ones that tend to off more speed to riders. I can see a point in time that you may only see MTB only or No MTB trails. MTB access to wilderness trails would have been open for discussion, but doubtful now as it's popularity increases. Add to that ebikes and you have a pretty messy situation for access.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

life behind bars said:


> E-motorized bikes won't ever fully supplant mountain bikes. There are places that are not suited for motorized vehicles, just as there are places not suited to mountain bikes.





ALimon said:


> Absolutely right. E bikes will eventually gain access, but not access to every trail or area and that's how it should be.


/thread (please?)


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Mr Pig said:


> Have electric toothbrushes replaced conventional ones, yes or no?


 They have in our house, several years ago, actually. Just like ebikes have replaced push bikes.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

ALimon said:


> Electric toothbrushes account for about 1/3 of toothbrush sales. Here in the US 20% of the population lives in poverty. And another 20% very close to it. That's about 130,000 people. Electric toothbrushes are luxury items for the poor. Households struggling to survive wouldn't be purchasing those items. So if 1/3 of the 320 million use electric toothbrushes, and 130,000 are eliminated, that means 1 in 2 own an electric toothbrush.


20% of the US population is only 130,000 people? That's crazy talk!


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

WoodlandHills said:


> 20% of the US population is only 130,000 people? That's crazy talk!


Yeah, I'd say ALimon isn't too good at math.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

ALimon said:


> now you're whining about electric toothbrushes too? My word.


I'm trying to find where someone whined about electric toothbrushes. No luck. Did you make that up?


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## Double Butted (Jan 27, 2015)

Anti ebike logic. 

Anyone who needs an electric tooth brush is just too lazy to use a regular tooth brush. Period. 

Also, electric tooth brushes must be plugged in to charge. Having an appliance in the bathroom that requires electricity is just asking for trouble. Electrocution deaths will probably sky rocket. Another thing to consider is someone is going to get injured because the brush heads turn at high rpm. Children will get a hold of them and a combination of high rpm and too much pressure they're going to erode their gum line. Gum erosion leads to gingivitis. Gingivitis leads to bad bacteria in the mouth which is a known cause of heart disease and other disease processes. Children will likely die. Everyone will buy electric tooth brushes and this will probably lead to less frequent dental visits. This will put dentists out of business. Anyone who buys one is contributing to the death of a minor and the breakdown of the US dental economy. People will travel with their electric toothbrushes and forget to bring their chargers and won't be able to brush their teeth. Their teeth will rot as a result. Regular tooth brushes work just as well and carry none of those risks. They should be banned. I've never used an electric toothbrush but I'm pretty sure everything I've said will happen, so pass the word around. Ban them.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

I'm way too much of a purist to get on board with ebikes. Maybe that will change in the future for me, but I'm all about pure self-propellment at this phase in my riding career.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Crankout said:


> I'm way too much of a purist to get on board with ebikes. Maybe that will change in the future for me, but I'm all about pure self-propellment at this phase in my riding career.


Funny that you're a purist because cycling means self propulsion to you.

I agree it's possible that e-bikes might someday replace mtb's (and road bikes) for the majority of riders and if you love bicycles that's kind of sad.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

ALimon said:


> Electric toothbrushes account for about 1/3 of toothbrush sales. Here in the US 20% of the population lives in poverty. And another 20% very close to it. That's about 130,000 people. Electric toothbrushes are luxury items for the poor. Households struggling to survive wouldn't be purchasing those items. So if 1/3 of the 320 million use electric toothbrushes, and 130,000 are eliminated, that means 1 in 2 own an electric toothbrush.


well, not only are you very bad at discussing anything bike related, you suck at math too. GO ALIMON


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

chazpat said:


> Yeah, I'd say ALimon isn't too good at math.


Fixed it.


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## Mackerel_Fillet (May 1, 2016)

In Europe, eMTB sales are accounting for 60-70% of all mtb sales in some stores.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

WoodlandHills said:


> 20% of the US population is only 130,000 people? That's crazy talk!


My bad, I meant 130 million. Get over it.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

Mackerel_Fillet said:


> In Europe, eMTB sales are accounting for 60-70% of all mtb sales in some stores.


In 4-5 years the US will probably match those numbers.


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## Double Butted (Jan 27, 2015)

Mackerel_Fillet said:


> In Europe, eMTB sales are accounting for 60-70% of all mtb sales in some stores.


Yep. It's so popular European Cycling Union/ UCI has added sanctioned ebike races next year.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

Double Butted said:


> Yep. It's so popular European Cycling Union/ UCI has added sanctioned ebike races next year.


Sea Otter added e bike races in 2016. Each year the field gets larger, supposedly they're adding more classes for 2019. Pro mtb riders are signing with eMTB companies and then the UCI. It's happening. This segment is about to take off.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

http://forums.mtbr.com/e-bikes/read-before-you-post-ebike-forum-rules-1022310.html


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