# what is it about old Bikes?



## klein nerd (Apr 9, 2008)

What is it about older bikes? Is it asthetics, craftmanship and attention to detail, or the pure pagentry of the builders and pioneers who developed these machines to roll down impossible trails. 

I only bring this up because today bikes have reached a level of technology that is unbelievable. You can ride a bike with disc brakes and 5" of smooth front and rear travel, with pedaling threshold adjustments, and parts don't break or bend. The new bikes don't even creak. 

So what is wrong with these new bikes. Are the parts generic looking, are the companies few and to large and powerful? Or are the bikes of today just too good, and does that take away from the sport. I think the new bikes are too good. Anybody can slam a torn up rocky trail with six" of suspension and hydraulic brakes. The old bikes made you think about the machines, work with them, love them. If you forgot about them you were on you face. You don't even notice new bikes. They may as well be invisible.:skep:


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

klein nerd said:


> They may as well be invisible.


What's invisible?

'Guin


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Frankly probably mid life crisis. These were the bikes from when I was in my 20s


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

klein nerd said:


> If you forgot about them you were on you face


Obligatory


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## jacdykema (Apr 10, 2006)

pinguwin said:


> Obligatory


Zing! Count it!


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

God damn it.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

klein nerd said:


> What is it about older bikes? Is it asthetics, craftmanship and attention to detail, or the pure pagentry of the builders and pioneers who developed these machines to roll down impossible trails.


For a lot of us it's just what we grew up with. Once we're established in our jobs we start looking to buy the bike we always dreamed of when we were kids. Check into Bikeforums.net On the Classic forum Chicago built Schwinn Paramounts are the bike every kid from the Seventies wants. Over the last 3-4 years they almost doubled in price on ebay.

Tim


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## Welsh Dave (Jul 26, 2005)

CS2 said:


> On the Classic forum Chicago built Schwinn Paramounts are the bike every kid from the Seventies wants. Over the last 3-4 years they almost doubled in price on ebay.
> 
> Tim


? Almost 4 bucks? :skep: 
That's a pricey Schwinn!


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## Rubi13 (Jul 28, 2007)

pinguwin said:


> Obligatory


i'm crying


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

klein nerd said:


> What is it about older bikes? Is it asthetics, craftmanship and attention to detail, or the pure pagentry of the builders and pioneers who developed these machines to roll down impossible trails.
> 
> I only bring this up because today bikes have reached a level of technology that is unbelievable. You can ride a bike with disc brakes and 5" of smooth front and rear travel, with pedaling threshold adjustments, and parts don't break or bend. The new bikes don't even creak.
> 
> So what is wrong with these new bikes. Are the parts generic looking, are the companies few and to large and powerful? Or are the bikes of today just too good, and does that take away from the sport. I think the new bikes are too good. Anybody can slam a torn up rocky trail with six" of suspension and hydraulic brakes. The old bikes made you think about the machines, work with them, love them. If you forgot about them you were on you face. You don't even notice new bikes. They may as well be invisible.:skep:


Wow man, that's so.......................like..............................deep.

Actually what you are talking about is nostalgia, it's been around for years, it has very little logic associated with it, and as yet no one has come up with a modern replacement for it. (someone did make a carbon fiber nostalgia in the late 1990s, but it cracked)


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

Its probably the fact that any modern bike that I would want would cost as much as a new motorcycle. I'd pick the motorcycle. Its also the fact that I have enough parts to build enough vintage mtbs to last me a lifetime.

I also equate the newest crop of mtn bikes to having automatic transmision traction control in a Porsche. Just not for me.


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

klein nerd said:


> So what is wrong with these new bikes. Are the parts generic looking, are the companies few and to large and powerful? Or are the bikes of today just too good, and does that take away from the sport. I think the new bikes are too good. Anybody can slam a torn up rocky trail with six" of suspension and hydraulic brakes. The old bikes made you think about the machines, work with them, love them. If you forgot about them you were on you face. You don't even notice new bikes. They may as well be invisible.:skep:


I like both - I ride my modern 4" travel bike the most often, but I like to get vintage rides in periodically and like to have the older bikes around. The nail was hit on the head earlier - they were the bikes that were out when I was a teen.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

pinguwin said:


> Obligatory


bwaaahahahahaha!


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## DWF (Jan 12, 2004)

Golden halo. Resistance to change. What's old is new again.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

DWF said:


> Golden halo. Resistance to change. What's old is new again.


could you at least quote pinguwin, so the picture shows again?


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

pinguwin said:


> Obligatory


nice socks.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

pinguwin said:


> Obligatory


Yes, its fun to poke fun of people - especially our Rumpfy, but I would put money on him having a faster time down that course than the majority of the people that post here. Even with the crash. :thumbsup:

There ya go, Rumpfy. Now paypal me those friendship dues.


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## DWF (Jan 12, 2004)

pinguwin said:


> Obligatory


That would of never happened on a 29" with a 650B rear.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

klein nerd said:


> What is it about older bikes? Is it asthetics, craftmanship and attention to detail, or the pure pagentry of the builders and pioneers who developed these machines to roll down impossible trails.
> 
> I only bring this up because today bikes have reached a level of technology that is unbelievable. You can ride a bike with disc brakes and 5" of smooth front and rear travel, with pedaling threshold adjustments, and parts don't break or bend. The new bikes don't even creak.
> 
> So what is wrong with these new bikes. Are the parts generic looking, are the companies few and to large and powerful? Or are the bikes of today just too good, and does that take away from the sport. I think the new bikes are too good. Anybody can slam a torn up rocky trail with six" of suspension and hydraulic brakes. The old bikes made you think about the machines, work with them, love them. If you forgot about them you were on you face. You don't even notice new bikes. They may as well be invisible.:skep:


I agree that the newer bikes will allow you to go the same speed as you did on your full rigid with less skill. However, if you take the same rider and send him down the same course he will go faster on the new stuff due to better braking, cornering, and the suspensions ability to roll through stuff at speed. It still takes skill, its a little different I think, but that same need for skill required to go fast is still there. Everything just takes place at a faster rate of speed. Saying the new bikes allow anybody to go fast on rough terrain is like saying anyone could jump on a motocross bike and due to it's 12" of travel they could keep up with Jeremy McGrath.

I love riding the new bikes.

The spirit of the vintage bikes we love from the past _was_ cutting edge performance. It wasnt a retro theme back then by any means. I enjoyed that about them then and I enjoy the nostalgia of that aspect that they posess.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

pinguwin said:


> Obligatory


Yeah, probably faster down that course than I would be. Still a nice action shot


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Yep, nostalgia, lust for things unobtainable when they were new, etc. Also, discovery. Like my first real ride on the Merlin I built up over the winter. Topline SL cranks flex like no-bodies business, guess I got used to the modern ones, and forgot what was considered "part of the deal" back then. Definitely felt like my pedal axles were bent when I mashed uphill, then it goes away 

On another note, seems a number of folks are poking at the OP a bit in the last few days. Seems like he means well, (yes, a poorly worded bordering on WIW thread was posted, get over it) and are posting assorted thoughts. How does getting mean spirited help welcome them aboard? Just wondering. :thumbsup:


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm probably one of the younger people on the VRC board (i'm 24) but I have what could possibly somewhat resemble an elitist attitude. IMHO anybody can go buy a brand new full boinger and shred, and there's nothing wrong w/ that; i'd love a new bike myself. But there's something inherently more...spiritual, if you will, about taking something old, something that requires more love and tenderness but something that will reward you greatly when done right.

It's like on the golf course, anybody can buy a set of new perimeter-weighted irons and be OK, mis-hits are forgiven but feel dead even with flush contact, but to truly master golf you need an instrument that will punish you if you mess up even just a bit. 

I dunno, I just like old more than new.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> On another note, seems a number of folks are poking at the OP a bit in the last few days. Seems like he means well, (yes, a poorly worded bordering on WIW thread was posted, get over it) and are posting assorted thoughts. How does getting mean spirited help welcome them aboard? Just wondering. :thumbsup:


It is unfortunate that the only way some people feel important is to make fun of others. They try to rationalize it by saying they're only kidding. The rise of chat rooms and forums has empowered life's loosers.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Slimpee said:


> I'm probably one of the younger people on the VRC board (i'm 24) but I have what could possibly somewhat resemble an elitist attitude. IMHO anybody can go buy a brand new full boinger and shred, and there's nothing wrong w/ that; i'd love a new bike myself. But there's something inherently more...spiritual, if you will, about taking something old, something that requires more love and tenderness but something that will reward you greatly when done right.
> 
> It's like on the golf course, anybody can buy a set of new perimeter-weighted irons and be OK, mis-hits are forgiven but feel dead even with flush contact, but to truly master golf you need an instrument that will punish you if you mess up even just a bit.
> 
> I dunno, I just like old more than new.


That's a pretty good analogy.

I own a new full-suspension bike, but ride vintage bikes or a newer rigid bike much more often than my FS. The trails where I live are not overly technical. I can ride a super fancy FS bike that makes the trail feel like a sidewalk, or I can ride a rigid bike and make the trail a little more challenging.

If riding was about getting down a hill as fast as possible, I'd probably always ride a full-suspension bike. But to me riding is about having fun, and more often than not I can have more fun on an old bike, than I can on a new one.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Yep, nostalgia, lust for things unobtainable when they were new, etc. Also, discovery. Like my first real ride on the Merlin I built up over the winter. Topline SL cranks flex like no-bodies business, guess I got used to the modern ones, and forgot what was considered "part of the deal" back then. Definitely felt like my pedal axles were bent when I mashed uphill, then it goes away
> 
> On another note, seems a number of folks are poking at the OP a bit in the last few days. Seems like he means well, (yes, a poorly worded bordering on WIW thread was posted, get over it) and are posting assorted thoughts. How does getting mean spirited help welcome them aboard? Just wondering. :thumbsup:


Coming across as mean spirited wasnt my intent if youre talking to me... It seems though that there are a few around here that occasionally need the proverbial 2x4 to the head to get a point. Maybe that causes the occasional meanness. I havent noticed any lately. We're way off topic now.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

I am of middling speed whether I am on a VRC bike or a modern squooshie. So, why not go in style. The trails around me are very technical but it just makes riding rigid that much cooler. I don't dig the ride of full suspension in any case. I am fixing to sell the squooshie and replace it with a Moots YBB and a Ti 29er. Add my full rigid Phoenix to the mix and I can enjoy all the trails around albeit a little less under control 

Most of my bikes are to be enjoyed for their history, back story and aesthetics. As much as I sympathize with the the get out and ride philosophy, the trails around me shred bikes and I have a lot of bikes that I don't want shredded.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Slimpee said:


> It's like on the golf course, anybody can buy a set of new perimeter-weighted irons and be OK, mis-hits are forgiven but feel dead even with flush contact, but to truly master golf you need an instrument that will punish you if you mess up even just a bit.
> 
> I dunno, I just like old more than new.


I like that analogy - which is why I'm still playing with a set of Wilson Staff Tour Blade irons from 1980. Mis-hit those and you're in the rut.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Yes, its fun to poke fun of people - especially our Rumpfy, but I would put money on him having a faster time down that course than the majority of the people that post here. Even with the crash. :thumbsup:
> 
> There ya go, Rumpfy. Now paypal me those friendship dues.


Paypal sent.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> If riding was about getting down a hill as fast as possible, I'd probably always ride a full-suspension bike. But to me riding is about having fun, and more often than not I can have more fun on an old bike, than I can on a new one.


I degreed in fine art and spent a lot of time with photography majors. One of the things a lot of my friends were into as much as the image was the craft of printing the image. That is kind of how I am with mtn biking - form. I dabbled in racing and rode with Earl Bob most of the time and it was fun. There was the pressure to be fast though and while I enjoy the thrill of speed I also am really into form. I enjoyed riding with folks who were more casual, or that I would have to wait for on occasion. It was less pressure and gave me the leeway to work on clearing a section a particular way; no dabs, certain line, whatever. Something about an older bike lends itself to that, kind of the way I guess single speeds do.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

ssmike said:


> I like that analogy - which is why I'm still playing with a set of Wilson Staff Tour Blade irons from 1980. Mis-hit those and you're in the rut.


Sweet jesus man. :eekster:

Tell me you at least have them semi-custom fit for you?


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Sweet jesus man. :eekster:
> 
> Tell me you at least have them semi-custom fit for you?


Well, duh, I reshafted them with 1" longer shafts. I won't tell you about the persimmon Power Bilt woods I use.


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

ssmike said:


> I like that analogy - which is why I'm still playing with a set of Wilson Staff Tour Blade irons from 1980. Mis-hit those and you're in the rut.


I dig! My 'rents have a set of mis-matched Staff Tour blades in the attic that i'd love to restore someday. I haven't played much in the past two years so they'd kick my a$$ if i played them right now. When I do play I have Ping I3 Blade irons that I think are a great compromise between playability and feel.

I have to say, though, that my older Eye2+ irons were better they just don't fit me...:madman: 
I have them at home, though, and they're in great shape. I just can't part with them!


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Slimpee said:


> When I do play I have Ping I3 Blade irons that I think are a great compromise between playability and feel.


My best round ever was with a set of borrowed Pings and tennis shoes (in 1981). I should have learned, but stuck with the Wilsons.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Slimpee said:


> I dig! My 'rents have a set of mis-matched Staff Tour blades in the attic that i'd love to restore someday. I haven't played much in the past two years so they'd kick my a$$ if i played them right now. When I do play I have Ping I3 Blade irons that I think are a great compromise between playability and feel.
> 
> I have to say, though, that my older Eye2+ irons were better they just don't fit me...:madman:
> I have them at home, though, and they're in great shape. I just can't part with them!


I'm sorry, but Ping hasn't put out a set of irons better than the old Ping Eye2's. Great clubs.
Now if you can get a BeCu set...bonus points. 
You know you can send your Eye2's back to Ping and they'll adjust lie for you (providing its not too extreme).


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

ssmike said:


> Well, duh, I reshafted them with 1" longer shafts. I won't tell you about the persimmon Power Bilt woods I use.


Haha! Persimmon clubs actually feel pretty good when you catch it on the screws. Hard to beat the oversized Ti stuff now-a-days though.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> I'm sorry, but Ping hasn't put out a set of irons better than the old Ping Eye2's. Great clubs.
> Now if you can get a BeCu set...bonus points.
> You know you can send your Eye2's back to Ping and they'll adjust lie for you (providing its not too extreme).


can we talk about road bikes instead


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

hollister said:


> can we talk about road bikes instead


...or Bontragers


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

ssmike said:


> ...or Bontragers


skinny tired restomod in progress


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## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

IF52 said:


> I degreed in fine art and spent a lot of time with photography majors. One of the things a lot of my friends were into as much as the image was the craft of printing the image. That is kind of how I am with mtn biking - form. I dabbled in racing and rode with Earl Bob most of the time and it was fun. There was the pressure to be fast though and while I enjoy the thrill of speed I also am really into form. I enjoyed riding with folks who were more casual, or that I would have to wait for on occasion. It was less pressure and gave me the leeway to work on clearing a section a particular way; no dabs, certain line, whatever. Something about an older bike lends itself to that, kind of the way I guess single speeds do.


+100 don't forget the obligatory "safety meetings" :thumbsup:  :devil: :cornut: 
It's all about flow.


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

Rumpfy said:


> I'm sorry, but Ping hasn't put out a set of irons better than the old Ping Eye2's. Great clubs.


 word


> Now if you can get a BeCu set...bonus points.


5 or 6 years ago my grandpa traded in a set of BeCu Eye 2 irons towards new Cobras. When I heard this I almost shat myself and he wishes now he would've kept them. Oh well.


> You know you can send your Eye2's back to Ping and they'll adjust lie for you (providing its not too extreme).


Yeah, but they're 2 degrees flat (orange dot) plus a std. length shaft and i need something in the range of 2 degrees upright (green dot) and 1" longer shaft which is what my I3s are.

Sorry to hijack but it's a GORGEOUS day here in Minneapolis and I wish I were mtn. biking or golfing. Stupid winter!!!


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Speaking of vintage golf  the club my bro-in-law belongs to is hosting the 09 PGA Senior Open. Doesn't get much more vintage golf than that, huh


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

pinguwin said:


> Obligatory


Back on topic!!!!

right click...save. success. Next picture, right click....save. what?? i already have this picture?

You mean these two pictures are set up as one?? Sweeeet!


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

bushpig said:


> I am of middling speed whether I am on a VRC bike or a modern squooshie. So, why not go in style. The trails around me are very technical but it just makes riding rigid that much cooler. I don't dig the ride of full suspension in any case. I am fixing to sell the squooshie and replace it with a Moots YBB and a Ti 29er. Add my full rigid Phoenix to the mix and I can enjoy all the trails around albeit a little less under control
> 
> Most of my bikes are to be enjoyed for their history, back story and aesthetics. As much as I sympathize with the the get out and ride philosophy, the trails around me shred bikes and I have a lot of bikes that I don't want shredded.


If the trails require slow speeds suspension feels awful. The faster those wheels are moving the more suspension comes into play I think.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> If the trails require slow speeds suspension feels awful. The faster those wheels are moving the more suspension comes into play I think.


Agreed. A really slow speeds, a FS bike feels like you're riding on a waterbed. As you go faster it is nice on rough terrain.


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## DWF (Jan 12, 2004)

Slimpee said:


> It's like on the golf course, anybody can buy a set of new perimeter-weighted irons and be OK, mis-hits are forgiven but feel dead even with flush contact, but to truly master golf you need an instrument that will punish you if you mess up even just a bit.
> 
> I dunno, I just like old more than new.


The mere fact that you know anything at all about golf causes me to discount anything you say. Sorry.


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## orbikemechanic (Apr 15, 2008)

I like my ping eye two's better than my zings. Ive been playing for ten years!


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Slimpee said:


> I'm probably one of the younger people on the VRC board (i'm 24) but I have what could possibly somewhat resemble an elitist attitude. IMHO anybody can go buy a brand new full boinger and shred, and there's nothing wrong w/ that; i'd love a new bike myself. But there's something inherently more...spiritual, if you will, about taking something old, something that requires more love and tenderness but something that will reward you greatly when done right.
> 
> It's like on the golf course, anybody can buy a set of new perimeter-weighted irons and be OK, mis-hits are forgiven but feel dead even with flush contact, but to truly master golf you need an instrument that will punish you if you mess up even just a bit.
> 
> I dunno, I just like old more than new.


I really have a hard time grasping the concept of following a white ball around for 4 hours. I can handle it for an hour or so before Im daydreaming about doing something a little more exciting.  Maybe when Im older it will appeal to me. And golf has no repercussions when you screw up that cause bodily injuries. 

Suspension doesnt make things easier for me. Or at least that's not the way I look at it. It broadens your horizon. New things open up. Now dont get me wrong, a big suspension bike feels terrible on easy trails, but in the right spot theyre amazingly fun. As much as I love my '81 Ritchey, I dont think it would do well in a situation like this:


Thats what I enjoy about the new bikes. The limits are way higher and Im having more fun than ever. On the other hand I still thoroughly enjoy a good ride on a rigid bike.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> As much as I love my '81 Ritchey, I dont think it would do well in a situation like this:


I believe that I can see up your skirt in that picuture.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Maybe when Im older it will appeal to me. And golf has no repercussions when you screw up that cause bodily injuries.


Are you falling in that picture?


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

"Golf is the best way to ruin a good walk"
- Mark Twain, Oscar Wilde, Winston Churchill (anyone else trying to look smart).


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## Matt H. (Sep 14, 2004)

I enjoy figuring out when a certain technology works just well enough for my purposes—the sweet spot where any addition might be superfluous, and any subtraction would be missed. I have a Japanese Samurai sword that’s older than anything else in my house, and yet it can’t be beat for its purpose. My favorite rifle is a WWII vintage M1. For mountain bikes, the minimum for me is short-chainstay geometry, an indexed rear thumb shifter, and cassette cogs—so right around ’88 or ’89. Bikes older than that are just not as fun for me to ride or work on. And most bikes since about '92 have a lot of complications that I really don’t need for most of the riding I do. I guess I just like the rugged simplicity of an old rigid bike.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Matt H. said:


> I enjoy figuring out when a certain technology works just well enough for my purposes-the sweet spot where any addition might be superfluous, and any subtraction would be missed. I have a Japanese Samurai sword that's older than anything else in my house, and yet it can't be beat for its purpose. My favorite rifle is a WWII vintage M1. For mountain bikes, the minimum for me is short-chainstay geometry, an indexed rear thumb shifter, and cassette cogs-so right around '88 or '89. Bikes older than that are just not as fun for me to ride or work on. And most bikes since about '92 have a lot of complications that I really don't need for most of the riding I do. I guess I just like the rugged simplicity of an old rigid bike.


I can appreciate that.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Are you falling in that picture?


arent you gonna help me out here??  I know Im not the only one here that enjoys the new stuff.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

i like the simplicity.. and the style.
the first is easy to make sense: rim brakes and rigid forks are simpler.
now style... i like to look at bikes from a certain era. they are not only tools for me. they are time capsules. i don't regain my youth from that... it's a distinction i guess.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Matt H. said:


> For mountain bikes, the minimum for me is short-chainstay geometry, an indexed rear thumb shifter, and cassette cogs-so right around '88 or '89. Bikes older than that are just not as fun for me to ride or work on. And most bikes since about '92 have a lot of complications that I really don't need for most of the riding I do. I guess I just like the rugged simplicity of an old rigid bike.


I generally agree with that, but why 1992? There was still plenty to be had without suspension, with nice clean geometry and clean lines. I guess rapidfire could be considered more complicated, and gripshift was considered marginal at best in both shifting and durability. I was glad to get out when I did for the same reasons you state, but my departure was at the end of 96.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Fillet-brazed said:


> arent you gonna help me out here??  I know Im not the only one here that enjoys the new stuff.


Haha. Fine. Fine.

If I could only own one bike, it would be a modern one. It helps if you like going downhill more than uphill...


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Haha. Fine. Fine.
> 
> If I could only own one bike, it would be a modern one. It helps if you like going downhill more than uphill...


can't you jump that w/ a rigid bike and big tires?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

colker1 said:


> can't you jump that w/ a rigid bike and big tires?


Haha, that jump yes. But my favorite trails, while much of it can be ridden on a full rigid bike, are best enjoyed with the full suspension bike.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> Haha, that jump yes. But my favorite trails, while much of it can be ridden on a full rigid bike, are best enjoyed with the full suspension bike.


blasphemer!

unclean, unclean!


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

hollister said:


> blasphemer!
> 
> unclean, unclean!


I guess Tom Ritchey, Charlie Cunningham and Scot Nicol are unclean as well. Oooh, and how could I forget Keith Bontrager for that list! 

Those guys were on the forefront of technology in their day. They werent trying to go backward. That said, I of course still love their old work and have a good sampling to admire and ride.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Haha, that jump yes. But my favorite trails, while much of it can be ridden on a full rigid bike, are best enjoyed with the full suspension bike.


yes, you could do it on a road bike. Serious. How would it feel though? The range of ridable bikes goes way beyond a rigid mtb. Remember Grant P's "underbike" theory? I really like it and think that is fun too - a different fun.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

hollister said:


> blasphemer!
> 
> unclean, unclean!


Easy for you to say...you're a climber.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Matt H. said:


> I have a Japanese Samurai sword that's older than anything else in my house, and yet it can't be beat for its purpose.


It's purpose being killing people right? And you have tested this how? And how would it fare against a Glock 19?


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I guess Tom Ritchey, Charlie Cunningham and Scot Nicol are unclean as well. Oooh, and how could I forget Keith Bontrager for that list!
> 
> Those guys were on the forefront of technology in their day. They werent trying to go backward. That said, I of course still love their old work and have a good sampling to admire and ride.


doesn't Tom still ride rigid? (dang flex stems)

what about the rest?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

mechagouki said:


> It's purpose being killing people right? And you have tested this how? And how would it fare against a Glock 19?


Um no. The "purpose" of the sword is to cut e.g. to cut a throat so that the escaping air whistles like an autumn wind. (movie reference) Not all this modern bang bang crudeness.


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## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

I'm old. I like things that were cool when I was young(er). Brings me back to that time.

I have old bikes, they work fine, I don't feel the need to buy a new one. I used to race a lot, and back then lusted after the latest and greatest, as I thought it would make me faster.

I don't have the time to race now. Disc brakes won't make me ride faster.

I like dirt bikes. All the new ones look alike, only the color of plastic defines what they are from a distance. 

I'd rather own a vintage 1977 Maico AW400. They don't make them anymore, and they had a certain style missing from the new.

I have a 17 year old Bridgestone RB-2 road bike. 7 speed, bar end shifters, nothing carbon. When I pass someone riding a new state of the art road bike that cost more than my first car, I feel like LeMond.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

bushpig said:


> Um no. The "purpose" of the sword is to cut e.g. to cut a throat so that the escaping air whistles like an autumn wind. (movie reference) Not all this modern bang bang crudeness.


Too much Kurosawa in your movie collection methinks..................


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Fillet-brazedt if youre talking to me...[/QUOTE said:


> Nope, honestly don't recall who in particular. Just seemed I hadn't seen much of the fellow, he shows, and several posts included a bit of special sauce. Not trying to point any fingers, just a general comment Why, guilty conscience?


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## azjeff (Jun 3, 2006)

*Hijack*



KDXdog said:


> I'd rather own a vintage 1977 Maico AW400. They don't make them anymore, and they had a certain style missing from the new.


DOG:cornut: I raced a 1976.5 AW400 :thumbsup: Last year of the alloy coffin tank, first of the "long travel". You could tell those 70s euro MX bikes were built by men and not Japanese machines. The only MTBs that have that same feel are Cunninghams. Kinda cobby but stone functional. Thanks for shaking it from the cobwebs.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I guess Tom Ritchey, Charlie Cunningham and Scot Nicol are unclean as well. Oooh, and how could I forget Keith Bontrager for that list!


Add me to that list. You guys all started out on equipment that at least worked. Every time I go out on a ride on my full suspension bike with unbelievable brakes, I find myself laughing about what I get to ride and where I get to ride it, especially considering that the one-speed coaster brake bike I started on was then the state of the art.


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

Looks like tom rides a ibis:skep:


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

hollister said:


> doesn't Tom still ride rigid? (dang flex stems)
> 
> what about the rest?




















Keith does a lot of his 24hr stuff on FS. Scot's got the new Mojo:










Charlie has a FS bike which he rides, but not nearly as much as his others which are full rigid and front suspended.

It doesnt matter though. Ride what makes you smile.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

ckevlar said:


> Looks like tom rides a ibis:skep:


thats a Castellano made by Steve Potts (whom Tom is good buddies with...) He has another bike in Africa which I think is a breakaway frame thats got some interesting handlebars.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Nope, honestly don't recall who in particular. Just seemed I hadn't seen much of the fellow, he shows, and several posts included a bit of special sauce. Not trying to point any fingers, just a general comment Why, guilty conscience?


you quoted me when you mentioned it so I thought maybe you meant me...


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## DWF (Jan 12, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I guess Tom Ritchey, Charlie Cunningham and Scot Nicol are unclean as well. Oooh, and how could I forget Keith Bontrager for that list!
> 
> Those guys were on the forefront of technology in their day. They werent trying to go backward. That said, I of course still love their old work and have a good sampling to admire and ride.


Bingo! It's to be appreciated, not worshiped.


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## stan4bikes (May 24, 2006)

*interesting....Why do we like old bikes?*

I think all the answers here are correct for their own reasons. Respect for the early products, nostalgia of days gone by, rideability of different designs, rarity etc. I wasn't into biking that much when I was younger.

My first bike was a red Columbia single speed. I'm not sure why but "back in the day" boys bikes were always red and girls bikes were always blue, never could figure that one out. I still have great memories of the places that bike took me. My next was a Sears "stingray", chrome plated, stick shifter on the top tube, banana seat with sissy bar..really a sharp lookin ride.

When I got married I bought matching Schwinn Continental 10 speed road bikes. Never did like them much so they sat pretty much unused for 10 or so years. They were so clean when I sold em I got more than what I had paid for them. We then bought Schwinn High Sierras and had a great time on them...for about 2 years. And then they sat till about 5-6 years ago. That' when I started catching the bike bug. So I really don't have the memories or urge to relive my youth thru bikes.

I guess it's kind of like my early passion for cars. At my age, 56, most of you weren't even born when I drove my 427 '67 Camaro, a 426 '64 Plymouth, several '57 Chev Belairs, a '60 Corvair and a 65? Corvair Spyder, '67 Barracuda Formula S coupe, '72 Datsun (Nissan) 510 coupe built by BRE (Brock Racing Enterprises) pushing 180 horse with full Mullholland suspension, '72 Datsun pickup with a true LT1 350 and narrowed 12 bolt rearend, a '40 Ford coupe....you get the idea. I loved every one of these cars and have thought many times about reproducing one or more of them. But I can't go back in time. I still appreciate the craftsmanship and fun these gave me but a re-creation to me just wouldn't be the same. I would rather enjoy the memories and try new things.

Bikes have been a great outlet for me to meet new people, rebuild discarded bikes (I hate throwing away perfectly good stuff) and learning some history of the sport. In a way I feel fortunate because I am not locked into any certain era or type or make of bike. I find something interesting in the wide variety of designs, ideas and passions of other bike people. I do seem to be gravitating more towards older bikes because of thier simplicity and their history.

Sorry for the rambling , I hope it was relevant and made at least a little sense


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## Magic (Apr 15, 2008)

stan4bikes said:


> I think all the answers here are correct for their own reasons. Respect for the early products, nostalgia of days gone by, rideability of different designs, rarity etc. I wasn't into biking that much when I was younger.
> 
> My first bike was a red Columbia single speed. I'm not sure why but "back in the day" boys bikes were always red and girls bikes were always blue, never could figure that one out. I still have great memories of the places that bike took me. My next was a Sears "stingray", chrome plated, stick shifter on the top tube, banana seat with sissy bar..really a sharp lookin ride.
> 
> ...


Makes perfect sense .... nice post.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

stan4bikes said:


> At my age, 56, most of you weren't even born when I drove my 427 '67 Camaro, a 426 '64 Plymouth, several '57 Chev Belairs, a '60 Corvair and a 65? Corvair Spyder, '67 Barracuda Formula S coupe, '72 Datsun (Nissan) 510 coupe built by BRE (Brock Racing Enterprises) pushing 180 horse with full Mullholland suspension, '72 Datsun pickup with a true LT1 350 and narrowed 12 bolt rearend, a '40 Ford coupe....you get the idea.


You realise people are now going to say your taste in cars is blue collar too

Not me though, IMHO the 1967 Camaro is the single most beautiful car ever built.


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## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

> DOG I raced a 1976.5 AW400


You know what I'm saying!

You lucky bastid!

I still have the Honda MR250 I bought as a kid. Ride it in vintage events.
Love the old smokers!


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

stan4bikes said:


> '72 Datsun (Nissan) 510 coupe built by BRE (Brock Racing Enterprises) pushing 180 horse with full Mullholland suspension,


Nice! That's my kind of car! If this thread has to get sidetracked by other vintage interests, let's talk about this kind of thing, not *blech* golf.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Lets see some pictures of the old cars Stan!


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> It doesn't matter though. Ride what makes you smile.


words to live by right there


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

KDXdog said:


> You know what I'm saying!
> 
> You lucky bastid!
> 
> ...


I had a '72 Bultaco Pursang 250  Then went for a Suzuki RM370 in '76


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

mechagouki said:


> You realise people are now going to say your taste in cars is blue collar too
> 
> Not me though, IMHO the 1967 Camaro is the single most beautiful car ever built.


Absolutley nothing blue collar about a Datsun 510.

Tim


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

CS2 said:


> Absolutley nothing blue collar about a Datsun 510.
> 
> Tim


510's can bang gears pretty good.

I'm a fan of all vintage cars though. Domestic, Euro, and Japanese vintage autos are all great in their own way.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> you quoted me when you mentioned it so I thought maybe you meant me...


Not at all, sorry you felt that way.....:thumbsup:


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## azjeff (Jun 3, 2006)

kb11 said:


> I had a '72 Bultaco Pursang 250


''

You mean :thumbsup: right? Jim Pomeroy fan? I suspected there'd be some old MXers (before long travel) in this crowd.:cornut:


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

azjeff said:


> ''
> 
> You mean :thumbsup: right? Jim Pomeroy fan? I suspected there'd be some old MXers (before long travel) in this crowd.:cornut:


Oh Ya, Jim Pomeroy, got to see him race at old Hangtown back in the day


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## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

Bimbo! :thumbsup: (RIP)!!

I used to live about 15 miles or so from Southwick, MX338!

I knew there was a reason I liked some of you guys!


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

kb11 said:


> Oh Ya, Jim Pomeroy, got to see him race at old Hangtown back in the day


I only go back to Brad Lackey, Chuck Sun, Broc Glover, Hannah, etc. Jim Pomeroy sounds vaguely familiar though. You guys are old timers. 

Didnt Johnny O' win the the Motocross des Nations on that Mugen 125? Thats vague for me. He's still racing mtbs. And he's very fast.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I only go back to Brad Lackey, Chuck Sun, Broc Glover, Hannah, etc. Jim Pomeroy sounds vaguely familiar though. You guys are old timers.
> 
> Didnt Johnny O' win the the Motocross des Nations on that Mugen 125? Thats vague for me. He's still racing mtbs. And he's very fast.


KB11 is 114 years old of you can believe it.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> KB11 is 114 years old of you can believe it.


hmmm, I would have guessed late 80s...


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## djmuff (Sep 8, 2004)

Cool thread. I'm a little late to the party, but that just means I get to witness all the random tangents after the fact. I can appreciate the golf stuff because my first job was at a golf course, and I also got to caddy for some good local players. I still suck at the game, but it's fun.

My dad is a car-guy, and it rubbed off on me. I have an unexplainable desire to own a Porsche 928 (watching Risky Business before I hit puberty may have caused this), but I appreciate vintage cars period. But Stan, you gotta explain this...



stan4bikes said:


> 72 Datsun pickup with a true LT1 350 and narrowed 12 bolt rearend


A true LT1 in a Datsun?!?! I know all about those. My dad had a nice 12-second 55 Chevy with a LT1 and a Muncie rock-crusher 4-speed. That car was awesome. That Datsun must have been hairy with all that power in a tiny pickup.

But about bikes- it really is all about what was hot when you first started to get into mt. biking. New bikes are great- suspension and disc brakes do wonders. But two main things bug me about new bikes. 1. I'm not fond of newer shifters, especially Shimano's dual-control crap. I've ridden the XT versions and they suck. Very uncomfortable. 2. Most newer bikes don't have the style I like in the old bikes. Too much carbon whatever and over-designed decals or paint jobs. Simple things almost always have more style than complicated things.


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## stan4bikes (May 24, 2006)

*absolutely!!*



djmuff said:


> . But Stan, you gotta explain this...
> 
> A true LT1 in a Datsun?!?! I know all about those. My dad had a nice 12-second 55 Chevy with a LT1 and a Muncie rock-crusher 4-speed. That car was awesome. That Datsun must have been hairy with all that power in a tiny pickup.
> 
> .


I hope I can find some pics of it, after many moves I'm not sure where they are. And of course, they're non-digital so I'll hafta scan em....Heres the scoop. Hooker made a kit with tuned headers, motor mounts and a recessed firewall panel to give clearance for the distributor. Datsuns had torsion bar front suspension so it was just a matter of tightening em up a bit. The tranny was a Turbo 350 with a manual shift kit, custom driveline with safety loops, homemade ladder traction bars and a narrowed 12 bolt 4;11 rear end. The tranny tunnel needed a little massaging but not much. , a Hurst ratchet shifter, line lock, Mags w/fatty tires and my windshield wiper fluid bottle rerouted to the rear tires for some awesome bleach burnouts rounded it out :thumbsup: It actually looked like any other Datsun with custom wheels and tires..but it didn't sound like one  Squirrelly? not as bad as you would think as long as it was dry out, but it was way too much power...NAW! it was just right

I'll look around for the pics, I'd like to see em again too.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> 510's can bang gears pretty good.
> 
> I'm a fan of all vintage cars though. Domestic, Euro, and Japanese vintage autos are all great in their own way.


That looks like Laguna Seca coming out of the Cork Screw, between turns 9 and 10.


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> hmmm, I would have guessed late 80s...


Well, I'd be in Old Timers class for sure  Do you remember Kent Howerton or Rocket Rex Staton, Marty Tripes, Marty Smith??


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## azjeff (Jun 3, 2006)

kb11 said:


> Well, I'd be in Old Timers class for sure  Do you remember Kent Howerton or Rocket Rex Staton, Marty Tripes, Marty Smith??


Geezer

Saw Smith, Hannah and the rest of the young Americans at the 125 Nats at Mid-Ohio.. saw the Euros at the USGP at Unadilla NY. That course was unbelieveable, it was only ridden on for the USGP, the rest of the year it was untouched. Heikki Mikkola was fast by force of will, Roger DeCoster rode it effortlessly. There were pros who couldn't get up the hills much less race.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

stan4bikes said:


> I hope I can find some pics of it, after many moves I'm not sure where they are. And of course, they're non-digital so I'll hafta scan em....Heres the scoop. Hooker made a kit with tuned headers, motor mounts and a recessed firewall panel to give clearance for the distributor. Datsuns had torsion bar front suspension so it was just a matter of tightening em up a bit. The tranny was a Turbo 350 with a manual shift kit, custom driveline with safety loops, homemade ladder traction bars and a narrowed 12 bolt 4;11 rear end. The tranny tunnel needed a little massaging but not much. , a Hurst ratchet shifter, line lock, Mags w/fatty tires and my windshield wiper fluid bottle rerouted to the rear tires for some awesome bleach burnouts rounded it out :thumbsup: It actually looked like any other Datsun with custom wheels and tires..but it didn't sound like one  Squirrelly? not as bad as you would think as long as it was dry out, but it was way too much power...NAW! it was just right
> 
> I'll look around for the pics, I'd like to see em again too.


It would have been a crime to drive that setup without a mullet.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

azjeff said:


> Geezer
> 
> Saw Smith, Hannah and the rest of the young Americans at the 125 Nats at Mid-Ohio.. saw the Euros at the USGP at Unadilla NY. That course was unbelieveable, it was only ridden on for the USGP, the rest of the year it was untouched. Heikki Mikkola was fast by force of will, Roger DeCoster rode it effortlessly. There were pros who couldn't get up the hills much less race.


My buddy somehow got about 4 of us jobs as flaggers at the '88 or '89 USGP in Hollister Hills. That was pretty neat to get that front row action on that cool course. I was stationed right at the bottom of that steep descent if you remember the course, but it sounds like this is way after your guys' time. 

On a semi-related note, I met Jody Weisel at that race. He was the first editor of Mountain Bike Action I think. He had some cool mountain bikes with him and gave me a few copies of MBA.


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## datawhacker (Dec 23, 2004)

Sure had to wade through a lot of golf club and car stuff to read this thread. To me there is too much complexity in modern bikes and also the important concept of not making things too easy, which is best said in this article:


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

datawhacker said:


> Sure had to wade through a lot of golf club and car stuff to read this thread. To me there is too much complexity in modern bikes and also the important concept of not making things too easy, which is best said in this article:


I like that. And as big a supporter as Grant is of the "UB", he also admits that it shouldnt be done all the time. I agree that it forces you to become a better rider. Something all of us were forced to do in the pre-suspension days.

On a few parts of the trails I ride, a 6" travel bike could possibly be considered a UB...


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## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

I think that the piece on the underbike was spot on, but I would add one further observation. Trail length matters. Down here in the southeast most trail loops are fairly short. Nearly all are less than 20 miles and most are less than ten if you are sticking to single/double track. By riding an older, less technically capable bike I can turn an 8 mile loop into a challenging ride. If I had 6" of whiz bang travel and mega brakes at both ends, a decent forty five minute ride would turn into a 20 minute dirt crit lap. Which ultimately leads to trail boredom. If I lived out west and had 20-100 mile trail networks available then I am sure I could see the value in a maverick or a new mojo or something. But around here those bikes really aren't applicable. Not to mention the fact that lots of our trails are so switchbacked that a short wheelbase really is your friend....


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

lucifer said:


> I think that the piece on the underbike was spot on, but I would add one further observation. Trail length matters. Down here in the southeast most trail loops are fairly short. Nearly all are less than 20 miles and most are less than ten if you are sticking to single/double track. By riding an older, less technically capable bike I can turn an 8 mile loop into a challenging ride. If I had 6" of whiz bang travel and mega brakes at both ends, a decent forty five minute ride would turn into a 20 minute dirt crit lap. Which ultimately leads to trail boredom. If I lived out west and had 20-100 mile trail networks available then I am sure I could see the value in a maverick or a new mojo or something. But around here those bikes really aren't applicable. Not to mention the fact that lots of our trails are so switchbacked that a short wheelbase really is your friend....


I would agree with that.

I think another dynamic to the underbike is how much more appealing it is when riding solo. Thats typically when I ride an underbike. I think the underbike when ridden in a group ride setting is less enjoyable because youre trying to keep up with your fast buddies down that rocky descent that arent on a UB. Or maybe thats just my competitveness.  If I could just convince all in the group to ride CX bikes everywhere... 

That said, I thoroughly enjoy the ideal bike for the job. I propose we call those IBs - not under or over, but perfect.  The only problem with that is my IB will be different than someone else's. We can go back to just ride what makes you smile.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

OMG! I just had a revelation after reading this thread. I like bikes better then women! 

Here's why:

Women- I like to ride as many as I can, but not the real young ones and not the old ones.

Bikes- I like to ride as many as I can, young, middle aged and even the old ones.

Also for all the negative qualities that women have that bikes don't have.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I would agree with that.
> 
> I think another dynamic to the underbike is how much more appealing it is when riding solo. Thats typically when I ride an underbike.


That is exactly what I started thinking when I wrote my response several posts ago.



Fillet-brazed said:


> That said, I thoroughly enjoy the ideal bike for the job. I propose we call those IBs - not under or over, but perfect.  The only problem with that is my IB will be different than someone else's. We can go back to just ride what makes you smile.


Yeah.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I think another dynamic to the underbike is how much more appealing it is when riding solo. Thats typically when I ride an underbike. I think the underbike when ridden in a group ride setting is less enjoyable because youre trying to keep up with your fast buddies down that rocky descent that arent on a UB.


It sounds like you're riiding in the wrong groups. Maybe you need to ride more often with riders that are more social and less about speed. An under-bike is a great way to relax and talk to the slower riders, instead of chasing the hammerheads.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> It sounds like you're riiding in the wrong groups. Maybe you need to ride more often with riders that are more social and less about speed. An under-bike is a great way to relax and talk to the slower riders, instead of chasing the hammerheads.


ah, its quite social and relaxed.... all until it points downhill.


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## -Anomie- (Jan 16, 2005)

Late to the thread (work is killing me  ), but I have a little different take on the whole "old bike" thing. The reason I have mine is because it's the first mountain bike I ever owned, and 15 years later I decided it was time to clean it up and make it "new" again. I still like new bikes too, and out here in SoCal a few inches of travel is actually useful, but when the trails get boring I just switch bikes and it's like I'm riding at a new place. I've never seen the Underbike article before, but I've been doing that for years anyway just for the sake of variety. It's not so much that I prefer "old" bikes, I just like variety.

That said, there were definitely more interesting and unique bikes being made 15+ years ago, when they were still trying to figure out what works and function didn't necessarily trump form. The old Goats with the incredible paint, that Moots with the gator lugs featured in another recent thread, the old Ritcheys with the bi-plane forks... There is something to be said for aesthetics, even when they're ONLY for the sake of aesthetics. There are some modern builders, like Jeff Jones, who make incredible looking bikes, but they seem to be the exception to the modern rule of function over form.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

-Anomie- said:


> There is something to be said for aesthetics, even when they're ONLY for the sake of aesthetics. There are some modern builders, like Jeff Jones, who make incredible looking bikes, but they seem to be the exception to the modern rule of function over form.


Agreed. If you've been to one of the NAHBS bike shows you can see some pretty cool stuff. But most bike shops are full of bland same ol' same ol' bikes.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Based on what I know of the personal bikes owned by members of this forum, I'd like to know what you think of as your personal 'Underbikes'.

And Bushpig, you better not say the Phoenix!


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

I don't feel like any of my 'old' bikes are obsolete. While I don't have some laid back early 80s bike, even my oldest bike (late 80s) certainly wouldn't be looks at by some folks as exactly cutting edge either. Still, it's not obsolete based on how I like to ride. 

Or take my IF as another example; they really haven't changed much on the Deluxe since mine was built. Sure they've tweaked the geometry since 1995 to handle a longer travel fork and have gone to 1 1/8th headset, but ultimately 13 years later it is still a viable hardtail. And to that end it now has modern driveline components since the old Sachs parts were getting tired.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

mechagouki said:


> Based on what I know of the personal bikes owned by members of this forum, I'd like to know what you think of as your personal 'Underbikes'.
> 
> And Bushpig, you better not say the Phoenix!


Ha ha - but it is. I am racing it next weekend so I will be able to confirm whether it is a UB, an OB or an IB.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

bushpig said:


> Ha ha - but it is. I am racing it next weekend so I will be able to confirm whether it is a UB, an OB or an IB.


I propose you race your Ritchey touring bike as a UB research project and report back.

Laffeaux, last I heard you owned one of those modern "same ol', same ol'" bikes. Spill it. 

My UB which I find very enjoyable cruising around the dirt roads and trails (and the low bb even clears small log crossings):


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## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I would agree with that.
> 
> I think another dynamic to the underbike is how much more appealing it is when riding solo. Thats typically when I ride an underbike. I think the underbike when ridden in a group ride setting is less enjoyable because youre trying to keep up with your fast buddies down that rocky descent that arent on a UB. Or maybe thats just my competitveness.  If I could just convince all in the group to ride CX bikes everywhere...
> 
> That said, I thoroughly enjoy the ideal bike for the job. I propose we call those IBs - not under or over, but perfect.  The only problem with that is my IB will be different than someone else's. We can go back to just ride what makes you smile.


Agreed on all points. For what it's worth 95% of my (off road) riding is solo. There are really only 2 kinds of MTBers around here. Current racers.... and me. I don't go often enough to keep up with the race boys so I have basically just turned mountain biking into my zen time. If I want company I ride with women. Most of whom are slower than I am, they make better company anyways 

Similar to what IF52 said both of my "underbikes" are still perfectly viable hardtails. (95 nuke proof ti and 94 fat chance buck shaver singlespeed) Both have more modern forks and brakes. So I am maybe at a speed disadvantage against the best full squishies but not by much...


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Laffeaux, last I heard you owned one of those modern "same ol', same ol'" bikes. Spill it.


I have a modern full-suspension bike and enjoy riding it. I hope that it's not the same as some of the more bland off-the-shelf bikes that are common in the shops.

Generally when I walk through a bike shop I don't ohh and ahhh when I look at bikes. Carbon nanotoube rearends that were all built in a factory and mated to an aluminum front end that has few distinctive features, and over the top F1-like decals does not do it for me.

I do get excited looking at really well done bikes - full suspensions or rigid. Walking around the NAHMBS was awesome. Walking around a bike shop is pretty boring. I remember years ago going into Wheelsmith and Palo Alto Bikes and looking at every bike they they had built up. Now I walk through and after I leave the shop I probably could not tell you if the bikes said Gary Fisher or Specialized on the downtubes.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

laffeaux said:


> I have a modern full-suspension bike and enjoy riding it. I hope that it's not the same as some of the more bland off-the-shelf bikes that are common in the shops.
> 
> Generally when I walk through a bike shop I don't ohh and ahhh when I look at bikes. Carbon nanotoube rearends that were all built in a factory and mated to an aluminum front end that has few distinctive features, and over the top F1-like decals does not do it for me.
> 
> I do get excited looking at really well done bikes - full suspensions or rigid. Walking around the NAHMBS was awesome. Walking around a bike shop is pretty boring. I remember years ago going into Wheelsmith and Palo Alto Bikes and looking at every bike they they had built up. Now I walk through and after I leave the shop I probably could not tell you if the bikes said Gary Fisher or Specialized on the downtubes.


Dude, you were totally a Blur owner. :ciappa:


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## datawhacker (Dec 23, 2004)

at one point 5 or so years ago it looked like Blurs would attain the ubiquity in my bike club that Rockhoppers enjoyed in the late 80s.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

I think that the Santa Cruz still has more soul than a lot of stuff being made. It was a unique suspension design that worked work, had understated grahics, and although eventually every other bike on the trail was a Blur, it looked different from other bikes.

And there are still some cool looking and riding bikes out there. Maybe it takes more to impress me now than it used to.

A shop near me has a Country Road Bob bicycle in the window. That turns my head a lot more than a $5000 wonder bike.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> A shop near me has a Country Road Bob bicycle in the window. That turns my head a lot more than a $5000 wonder bike.


And a Surly Karate Monkey impresses me more than most bikes today too. Especailly when it came in Coleman Stove Green.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> And a Surly Karate Monkey impresses me more than most bikes today too. Especailly when it came in Coleman Stove Green.


This:










Plus this:










Equals Surly?


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## Cactus Jack (Nov 29, 2005)

kb11 said:


> Well, I'd be in Old Timers class for sure  Do you remember Kent Howerton or Rocket Rex Staton, Marty Tripes, Marty Smith??


Don't forget Gaylon Mosier, Danny LaPorte, Steve Wise, Darrell Schultz, Brad Lackey among others..........I still have copies of MX Action (circa 78,79) where I recall Jody Weisel being the editor......Geez; now if only I could find a mint 79 CR 125 Elsinore


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## klein nerd (Apr 9, 2008)

*new bikes don't las long*

Older bikes stayed with us for longer. They were a do it all machine and often our only bike that we owned. I can remember when a rider that owned two bikes was thought of to be either a pro of rich. It was normal to have one hardtail and upgrade it for five or more years.

Try having a modern suspension bike not die in a year. I will crack anything in a year. If it doesn't crack the shock blows or the pivots are gone. So new bikes are kind of disposable. The average rider I know has five or so bikes. Slave labor in china helps make this possible, sorry I said that.

Have you ever seen what happens to a carbon top tube when the rider cant get out of the pedals over a log crossing and fall on the log. walk home.

What I am saying is that we grow fond of things that are with us for a long time. Older bikes fit that bill. Some of us still have our fist bike.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> This:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tubing wall thickness is to thin to be a Surly


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## -Anomie- (Jan 16, 2005)

bushpig said:


> Tubing wall thickness is to thin to be a Surly


I thought they used black gas pipe for those? 

To answer mechagouki's question about what I consider an "underbike", well, I once did a 12 hour mountain bike race on a road bike. It was an '89 Sanino, silver-brazed lugs with a rattle-can paint job that I got for free from a friend. I just slapped some 24mm Vitoria cross tires on it and rode it to 2nd place  . I dedicated that race to everyone on the start line that laughed at my bike, thinking I was going to swap it out after the first lap. :thumbsup:

Unfortunately that bike was killed when I was t-boned by a woman in a Cherokee going about 30mph. When I got out of the hospital 3 months later, another friend gave me an '84 Bridgestone 400 frame and fork to replace my Sanino. I still have it and use it as my fixed gear all-arounder. It gets raced off-road as my back-up bike at the 'cross races:


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## henrymiller1 (Apr 25, 2008)

*Dead on*



cegrover said:


> I like both - I ride my modern 4" travel bike the most often, but I like to get vintage rides in periodically and like to have the older bikes around. The nail was hit on the head earlier - they were the bikes that were out when I was a teen.


Nail was hit dead on. We like vintage bikes because we wanted them when we couldn't get them. Now we can. My first mountain bike was a Ross Mt ? from 1982sh. It was about $250. Luckily they had lay away. I wanted the fancy Klein (up on the wall and SOO out of reach). I just got back into mountain bike w/ a $2400 FS. I dropped into creek and pulled it off. on my last bike (hard tailed Nishiki) i would have gotten real wet. FS are way too easy to ride. So i picked up a 1989 Klein hardtail to give the creek another chance. It should be delivered soon. I'm more excited about this old scratched up Klein than my $2400 FS. It wasn't the one on the wall but close enough for me. Funny thing is that i paid about $250 for my Klein. Enjoy your old bike(s) and don't get rid of it.


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