# Anyone carry titanium allen wrenches along?



## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

Since this is a weight-weenie forum I guess I am curious. Action Tec makes a light pair of metric allen keys in 3mm/4mm and 5mm/6mm combos from titanium. That would cover about anything needed on the trail I believe. I have a set on the way that I'll use vs the 105g Park multi-set now stashed for rides. I know I could just grab a pair of steel ones (about 25g for the 3/4 5/6 pair instead of the entire HEAVY Park folding set) which would be only slightly heavier than the ti ones will be... but hey... that's not what it's all about! I believe it will be roughly a 10g savings vs carrying a pair of steel keys, lol.  Anyone else with their thoughts/used the Action Tec stuff?


Edit... I know not everyone weighs their bikes fully loaded and ready to ride unless you use a Camelback and carry spare stuff in there/tucked your jersey/etc which I also have done at times. In which case those numbers should be factored in to compare as one could also run a bike in the 'stripped down' mode. So... with a Trek Pro 60 bag under the seat... stuffed with a Park mini chain tool, a couple spare chain links and pins, a pair of steel metric allen keys, a spare tube which is heavier than what I usually run/carry as a spare, one tire lever, some band-aids/etc in case the little one (or me, lol) crashes, and a little spare change just in case, an Arundel bottle cage mounted with alum bolts, and a carbon fiber mini-pump/bracket mounted with alum bolts... in other words... not the normal 'fluff' weight we all want to compare... it was dead-on 23.00 pounds. So... the extra stuff was about 1.28 pounds/580g. So I can certainly see a benefit to knocking down weight for other items.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Wow, I knew I'd see a post here where someone really went too far with this WW thing and lost all perspective.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

I've got a Crank brothers multitool its 85g

Has 3mm,4mm,5mm,6mm and a philips head. 

I prefer that to carrying loose allen wrenches.


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## Hardtailforever (Feb 11, 2004)

*No, but....*

I do have to admit, I've been lusting after Lesyne (sp?) multitools. Carbon sides, Ti wrenches, but with a full set and chain tool. So awesome... So expensive...


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Wow, I knew I'd see a post here where someone really went too far with this WW thing and lost all perspective.


Really? If you think that way I suggest you avoid this forum. 

Lost perspective? No, I have not. I enjoy riding immensely. I also enjoy (as others do who frequent this forum and contribute in a positive manner) looking at ways to 'lighten the load' so to speak. Carrying 105g worth of multiple allen keys in a set is not very necessary, or necessarily smart. Carrying a pair of allens that cover virtually all I'd need to deal with (or have to this point) out on a ride is smarter. When you look through this forum and see how folks shave metal from derailleurs, use alloy bolts, and other means to reduce weight you begin to have an open mind towards all options. To save 10-15g on what I'd call an essential item to carry for roughly $30 isn't horrible. Take a peek at the weight savings for something like derailleur pulleys vs the cost. That's where I do have perspective and am (maybe wrongly) unwilling to spend that much to lose so little. I guess it appears to me many of your posts seem to come across in negative tones or comments? If you have any relative feedback on the Action Tec parts I'll be happy to read it.  To others who've replied with relevant comments, thank you.


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## Bends But Doesn't Break (Jun 23, 2008)

Just curious about two observations:

1. I don't know that any of you are winning races
2. I've even seen some of you writing about how you're "heavy" riders, and thus worried about the durability of carbon, Ti, etc.

Of course, please correct me if I'm wrong. Not hatin', just asking.

Means/ends seem kind of incongruous to me? My curiosity is piqued.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Never go WW on tools. Hell, even the CB tools suck because they're made of soft metals, prone to wear, rust, and pitting.

These are the same people that will cry about rounded bolts because the tool wasn't made right.


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## Birdman (Dec 31, 2003)

*Seriously*

Go make yourself a bunch of aluminum hex keys - lighter than titanium, and about as useful.
JMJ


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

I'm not looking for something to build a bike with on the trail thus the ti would IMO be fine for minor tweaks/to remove the bolt-on skewers to deal with a flat/etc. The steel tools are at home or in the vehicle even for more major work. I have a friend who's a skilled machinist and had discussed making our own aluminum ones and then having them hard-anodized. But by the time we did the program to machine them, bought the aluminum, and then paid for the finishing... it was clearly not worthwhile. As to racing... there's a good chance next summer I'll run some 45+ Sport stuff if time permits. Weight-wise I usually hover around 170 lbs give or take a little.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Just carry this.










I use the Topeak Hexus one because it has integrated tirelevers. This does not... But the Lezyne ones weighs a mere 89g w/ chain breaker.


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## Birdman (Dec 31, 2003)

"I have a friend who's a skilled machinist and had discussed making our own aluminum ones and then having them hard-anodized. But by the time we did the program to machine them, bought the aluminum, and then paid for the finishing... it was clearly not worthwhile."

Not so - make a whole bunch of them and sell them to the other weight weenies here. Programming? They are easy to do on a manual mill, no CNC required - only time on a manual mill. Is your friend a skilled CNC programmer or a skilled machinist? Bar stock held in a collet in a hex-indexed head. You want them monogrammed or something? KISS.

Aluminum is cheap, and the sizes and quantities needed for hex keys is what most shops consider scrap, so you'd get it for free. Heat treating it can be done for cheap by piggy-backing your hex keys with another bigger order. Same goes for anodizing.

FWIW, hard anodizing will not do much for strength, only surface hardness (and then, only marginally). Useless for your bolt-on skewers, but then again, your cost/weight/benefit matrix seems a tad more skewed than most.

Good luck - JMJ


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

The friend of mine has both manual and CNC mills in his shop at home. He does mainly racing parts and also takes on some production work to keep the machines running. He normally has another friend do the programming for him. He's made some interesting little parts for my drag race needs through the years. He's more than meticulous too. Once I took him a set of heads to angle-mill the deck surfaces on. He was beside himself when they were done and checked... seeing how they were off end-to-end by .0005", lol. I never worry when I drop parts off for him to machine.  There are a few items for bikes that I've thought about having him produce for me in quantity. But, my time to do that is pretty limited in that I work a fulltime job and also have a secondary one building/selling race automatic transmissions and other race parts such as safety equipment. In other words for the small amount of profit we'd see it's more advantagious for me to do what I already do and not make that venture.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Cheers! said:


> Just carry this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is nice I would hate to know what my park tool weighs compared to that one.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Rod said:


> That is nice I would hate to know what my park tool weighs compared to that one.


Or this one.. $20 cheaper at $80.. 46g (For $60 less you can get one that is 58g. That's some expensive 12g...)


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## ginsu2k (Jul 28, 2006)

Personally, I would look for steel allen keys that have a 4mm on one end, and 5mm on the other, that way you only need to carry one. Besides the 4mm and 5mm hex keys, I've never felt the need to carry any other tools besides tire levers, although I rarely ride more than 15-20miles.

Also, I don't think this is really 'losing perspective'. Riding w/o tools or tubes deep into the woods is overboard WW, and I've done it a few times and also learned the hard way (especially with lightweight tubes). 

And to the guy that made the point about not racing and being a weight weenie. Well that's retarded, because I know tons of people that modify their cars and don't race them. You don't have to race a vehicle to be an enthusiast. I think if you bike for 10 years or more you eventually get to the weight weenie stage by default. Personally, I'm just sick of lugging around a heavy bike. Light bikes fuel my enthusiasm for the sport. I'm not going back to 30lb hardtails, evar!!!


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

ginsu2k said:


> Personally, I would look for steel allen keys that have a 4mm on one end, and 5mm on the other, that way you only need to carry one. Besides the 4mm and 5mm hex keys, I've never felt the need to carry any other tools besides tire levers, although I rarely ride more than 15-20miles.
> 
> Also, I don't think this is really 'losing perspective'. Riding w/o tools or tubes deep into the woods is overboard WW, and I've done it a few times and also learned the hard way (especially with lightweight tubes).
> 
> And to the guy that made the point about not racing and being a weight weenie. Well that's retarded, because I know tons of people that modify their cars and don't race them. You don't have to race a vehicle to be an enthusiast.* I think if you bike for 10 years or more you eventually get to the weight weenie stage by default.* Personally, I'm just sick of lugging around a heavy bike. Light bikes fuel my enthusiasm for the sport. I'm not going back to 30lb hardtails, evar!!!


Is that why the lightweight segment is contracting and bikes that are built 30-34 is one of the faster growing segments of the last ten years? Come on, as time goes on, people aren't going weight weenie. They're improving their skills, seeing what other people are doing, how their trails are evolving and moving up accordingly. XC and their lightweights have always been contracting since ten years ago, first due to durability concerns, so the manufacturers made them heavier, then there's the comparative fun factor lost in those lightweights and now it's feasible for a 30+ pounder to be an "all day bike".

The brutality of this trail is not displayed in this shot, but rest assured, I stopped to take a shot because I initially got outclassed by it until I tried again. This is a trail a lightweight bike would not have returned from, very far from home. This is the type of riding people have expanded into because bikes are now comfortable to ride and we're satisfied with our fitness to ride them up, and then get the enjoyment to drop them down. THis is where the sport is now. Do anything, not roadie on dirt.


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## AznRider (Jun 20, 2008)

I remember Facom makes some very exotic tools at a price


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## MattP. (Oct 3, 2005)

Time to see who has the most weight weenie CamelBak!!!!!
:madman:


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## AznRider (Jun 20, 2008)

I am surprised there no thread on 'How to crash diet in 4 days' in this segment lmao.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

AznRider said:


> I am surprised there no thread on 'How to crash diet in 4 days' in this segment lmao.


Eat a lot of chunky salad for two days, then drink half a gallon of buttermilk. Seriously.


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

Curmy said:


> Eat a lot of chunky salad for two days, then drink half a gallon of buttermilk. Seriously.


Hmmm... you may want a saddle (and shorts) with a center cutout.... :eekster: 

How about some others throwing their carry-along tools/tubes/bags/etc on a scale just to see what they weigh? As edited into my 1st post my stuff was 580g total.


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## Bends But Doesn't Break (Jun 23, 2008)

Bends But Doesn't Break said:


> Just curious about two observations:
> 
> 1. I don't know that any of you are winning races
> 2. I've even seen some of you writing about how you're "heavy" riders, and thus worried about the durability of carbon, Ti, etc.
> ...


Anybody?


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Bends But Doesn't Break said:


> Anybody?


I would guess nobody would care much answering an irrelevant question?


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## Bends But Doesn't Break (Jun 23, 2008)

ginsu2k said:


> And to the guy that made the point about not racing and being a weight weenie. Well that's retarded, because I know tons of people that modify their cars and don't race them. You don't have to race a vehicle to be an enthusiast. I think if you bike for 10 years or more you eventually get to the weight weenie stage by default. Personally, I'm just sick of lugging around a heavy bike. Light bikes fuel my enthusiasm for the sport. I'm not going back to 30lb hardtails, evar!!!


Some people might say what's "retarded" is being a cyclist and XX lbs overweight yet being obsessed with reducing the weight of the bicycle, down to fractions of a gram, for presumed performance enhancement so as to yield increased enthusiasm, instead of being on the equipment that's owned to shed that weight and earn the ancillary performance and passion benefits associated with that weight loss.

I've been biking for well more than 10 years and while I've never purchased the heaviest (ugliest, or cheapest) components, I still know that my performance has got way more to do with my own self-discipline in training, consuming a sensible diet, and making myself make the equipment I've got work.

No one ever lost a race or DNF'd because, "Damn it, if only I got the saddle with carbon rails instead of the titanium rails!"


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Just curious, if your trying to shave every last gram off the bike you can, why not just carry your stuff in say a camelbak fanny or backpack, I know when I was doing the weight weenie thing I never put anything extra on the bike, not even waterbottle cages, instead I carried everything in a small tight fitting pack.


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## mx_599 (Dec 10, 2005)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> The brutality of this trail is not displayed in this shot, but rest assured, I stopped to take a shot because I initially got outclassed by it until I tried again. This is a trail a lightweight bike would not have returned from, very far from home. This is the type of riding people have expanded into because bikes are now comfortable to ride and we're satisfied with our fitness to ride them up, and then get the enjoyment to drop them down. THis is where the sport is now. Do anything, not roadie on dirt.


how steep is this section really. i cannot tell in picture. do you have to take it fast? or is there enough traction to go slow. do you have any other pics of riders coming down?

mx


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## mechBgon (Jan 28, 2007)

Park Tool's $10 one-piece MT-1 weighs only 44 grams and has hex keys in 3mm, 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, 8mm and flat-tip screwdriver, plus 8mm, 9mm and 10mm sockets. It's investment-cast steel and could easily be lightened up on a drill press without losing much strength (only the 8mm hex key would call for lots of strength, if you're stepping on the end of the wrench to snug up a crankarm).










Besides the MT-1, I usually carry a Park Tool CT-5 chain tool (not ultralight at 77 grams, but it's reliable and has the secondary shelf for loosening stiff links). That's it for tools (other than a pump). I don't worry excessively about the weight of the tools, but I don't go out of my way to choose heavy bulky ones with useless features either.


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

jeffgothro said:


> Just curious, if your trying to shave every last gram off the bike you can, why not just carry your stuff in say a camelbak fanny or backpack, I know when I was doing the weight weenie thing I never put anything extra on the bike, not even waterbottle cages, instead I carried everything in a small tight fitting pack.


As mentioned, I do ride that way as well at times. Just varies as to where I'm riding somewhat. If I take the little one out I tend to put the stuff on the bike and also carry a cell phone just in case.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Ok kool, just checkin. :thumbsup:


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Curmy said:


> Or this one.. $20 cheaper at $80.. 46g (For $60 less you can get one that is 58g. That's some expensive 12g...)


In my defense, I never said that I would buy such a tool and if I ever did it would be at the absolute bottom of my "to buy for my bike" list. First I would get matching rims lol. I thought my park tool weighed more than that, but I may be wrong. Now that I think about it even if I had the money I could never bring myself to pay 80 dollars for such a tool. If I thought I lost a race because of those 12 grams I have a lot to work on.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Bends But Doesn't Break said:


> No one ever lost a race or DNF'd because, "Damn it, if only I got the saddle with carbon rails instead of the titanium rails!"


So? That is relevant to buying new shiny toys in what way?

If you want to rap on mindless waste of money for no tangible benefits, go to some audiophile forum.

Drop by your Best Buy an observe people buying $120 HDMI cables. Seriously, buying a $100 carbon fiber clad CNC machined set of hex keys to save 20g is an infinitely smarter way to spend a C note.

Yes, for a race there is a sweet spot where buying more expensive stuff does not make sense. If I have just spend about $2500 to acquire a 20lb ti hardtail to go to a few races (and finish last in some beginner category) - well, I would not spend another $2500 to make it a 17lb one, but even if I did, it would buy me a lot of fun working on it. Better then getting drunk in a bar.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Curmy said:


> If you want to rap on mindless waste of money for no tangible benefits, go to some audiophile forum.


Funny you bring that up.

<<< Bike stuff on hold for now, in the process of "with no tangible benefits" (  ) building my first true audiophile system.

NAD 7020 Receiver (for starters, may buy a Bob Carver down the road)

Ordering in a few days

Acculine A3 towers

Still to come

David Hafler amp (yes - I'm going to break my windows out with it - obscene power)  :thumbsup:


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

Interesting how many of us have the same 'techie' interests, huh? I've got a system with a Denon AVR and Denon DVD player, an ancient Pioneer belt-drive turntable (love the vinyl!), and Klipsch Reference series speakers with a Klipsch Sub-12. Our other smaller room system is Denon/Klipsch with a BIC H100 sub instead. I guess we're all pretty much technical geeks and such. 

ps... I did get a decent RCA cable with gold contacts for the sub and also good ones for the 6 analog cables (used for SACD's)for DVD to AVR hookup. I used ordinary old speaker wire from Lowes for all speakers, and the cheapest HDMI cables I could find to hook the satellite receiver and DVD to the LCD television. I used optical cables for the normal DVD and the satellite receiver audio outputs to the AVR. I always get a laugh out of the guys on the AV forums touting spending "x dollars per dollar spent on the rest of your system" for cables. Pure bunk! Of course it makes Best Buy some serious coin selling those overpriced/overhyped Monster items.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Verrrrrrrry nice :thumbsup:

Vinyl is nice, contrary to popular belief better then CD's


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

jeffgothro said:


> Verrrrrrrry nice :thumbsup:
> 
> Vinyl is nice, contrary to popular belief better then CD's


Our oldest one (just turned 26) had funny look on his face digging through the piles of "really old aren't they?" LP's I have, lol. I'm actually on the hunt for a new cartridge to replace the old Shure I have now. Have not decided what I'll do yet. I'd love to get tube style amps some day to really bring that vinyl to life. The Klipsch stuff is a love/hate speaker.... either folks totally enjoy the sound or they just can't grasp it. To me the horns are awesome. Even the wife has grown to enjoy the system, lol. Now she complains when something she wants to watch isn't broadcast in HD with good audio as well.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

My favorite speaker (if you can find them) are Carver Amazings (although that might not be saying much) because they are old and there are many I havent heard.

(without the cloth grill - note YOU BETTER HAVE A FAT AMP, takes ALOT to push these)


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## rroadie (Aug 3, 2008)

Oh come now, this argument is old and pointless. There will always be those who admit that saving weight on a bike is fun. A disease without ure but fun nonetheless. 
My training partner is a former national and provincial champ in XC and silver in DH and is the biggest weight weenie I know. I've won and I've come DFL in races, rarely because of the bike unless I flatted. 
Having worked in the industry for years (years ago) and raced for many years I've heard this go round over and over. 
We do not have to rationize saving weight on our bikes. Faster may not always be the point but fun always is. I have a blast on my 19lb hardtail and onmy 22.5 lb FS. The only bike I;ve ever broken weighed close to 30 lbs and I was testing it for a shop. My lightweights have held up fine even if my XC tends more to FR. 
IAMMTNBKR I have really enjoed watching the progress of your build.


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## mechBgon (Jan 28, 2007)

*Wipperman chain tool*

I was looking at other lightweight functional tools, and came across this Ritchey one-piece multitool, claimed 25 grams at under US$20:

http://www.ritcheylogic.com/dyn_prod.php?p=05-206-090&k=97993

Compared to Park Tool's MT-1, the Ritchey trades off the 8/9/10mm box-end wrenches and 8mm hex key for a Torx T25, a spoke wrench, and the all-important *bottle opener* :thumbsup: I think I'll pick one up.

I also had a look around for lighter chain tools. Wipperman makes a folding aluminum one with a compartment for a spare master link, but they list it at 80 grams, so it's not particularly light. Ritchey used to make aluminum "CPR-5" and "CPR-9" chain tools, but I didn't find anywhere to buy one yet.

It also looks like I could get a smaller, lighter seat bag and still have enough room for my usual items. Jandd has a 50-gram bag that looks just right. Another cheap way to lighten up the ride by ~40 grams.

I weighed my old Topeak pump and it's rather heavy, about 160 grams plus the waterbottle bracket, so I'm trying one of the inexpensive Lezyne 90-gram ones... not the ones with the hose, but the customary lock-on head. I can cram it into my Camelbak to eliminate the plastic bracket, too. I have a Topeak super-micro 65-gram pump I take as an emergency bailout pump on my road bike if I run out of CO2s, but it would take a half-hour to fill a 2.2-inch tire with that one 

So those changes should get me 130-150 grams lighter for a budget price. That's more weight loss than upgrading my Deore LX rear hub to an XTR, for a small fraction of the cost


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