# Best Handlebar Light for <$100 to Date?



## natzoo (Jan 21, 2009)

First, great discussions going on this board. It's awesome to see everyone so interested in the technical details. There is a lot of info to filter through for the casual reader, so I though I would directly ask the experts:

*As of now (Fall 2017), what is the best <$100 handlebar light (inc. battery) available?*
Categories:

Robustness/Quality Control
Handlebar Mount
Output, color temp, beam pattern

For my trails, I prefer having a nice even flood rather than range. I value robustness and solid mounting options over absolute brightness. Typically 2.5-3hr rides.

My vote: Nitefighter BT21 which I love, but sadly they discontinued. I also have a BT40, but I think the BT21 has a much better spread and user interface. I had a battery pack fail on me, but that is the price to pay for cheap lights.

The consensus for the best bang for buck battery pack are the packs from kaidomain. I have two of these, and they work great.

So over to you guys, if you were to recommend a light to someone getting into night trail riding on a budget, what would it be?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

natzoo said:


> First, great discussions going on this board. It's awesome to see everyone so interested in the technical details. There is a lot of info to filter through for the casual reader, so I though I would directly ask the experts:
> 
> *As of now (Fall 2017), what is the best <$100 handlebar light (inc. battery) available?*
> Categories:
> ...


C&B Seen 7up. 
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/review-c-b-seen-7up-1041092.html

Cycling LED Lights

7 xp-g3 emitters, around 2000 real lumens (estimated by my lux readings on this light), wireless remote, I paid approx. $53 delivered from UK to Arizona a few months ago (lighhead + remote). This has been a very good light for me and reminds me most of my Nitefighter BT70. Best beam description for you would be not quite as floody as the BT40s but more so than the BT21 with more throw than either. If you liked your BT21 you'll like this light. Tint is a little cooler but works well with the NW Ituo XP3 I normally pair it with. Can't comment on reliability as it's an unknown, only that I've had no problems and it seem like a good/solid light to me. The only issue I've had is there is a programming glitch that would not allow me to set any of the preset adjustments so stuck with 10/30/80% preset defaults. Actually not that big a deal since I can still enter the programming mode easily and scroll up and down to whatever level I want with the 2 button remote. New models will have the programming feature fixed but that brings up the real problem in that C&B Seen will not restock till the problem is fixed. One of the above links is to their website so you can check, for the last couple of months they keep saying restock will be soon. Worth the wait IMO.
Mole

















Sorry, accidently added the road bike pic and can figure out how to get rid of it so consider it a bonus picture!


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

There isnt a "best". Theres a lot of good lights and it depends on what your looking for in a light. Thats the biggest question, what are you looking for in a light?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## natzoo (Jan 21, 2009)

The C&B seen light seem interesting. I might the 1000LM version as a helmet light to test it out and see for myself.



RAKC Ind said:


> There isnt a "best". Theres a lot of good lights and it depends on what your looking for in a light. Thats the biggest question, what are you looking for in a light?


I totally agree that there is no best light. Everyone has different requirements and preferences. However I think there are a ton of bad lights out there: low output, low quality battery, bad construction, poor mounting and usability, etc.. I am hoping to get a list of objectively good options (like the BT40) not necessarily the best light.

Other options I have considered were:
KDLIGHT BL70s
YINDING 900

However, I have no experience with them, so I am hoping others can chime in with their own experiences.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Here's one good one under $100

https://www.ravemenbikelights.com/c...lights/products/ravemen-pr1200-led-bike-light.

Yinding is a decent light (battery pack isnt great).

Dont know much the other one.

Only downside to buying cheap lights is the lottery. Could be a solid light for a while or DOA. Or anything in between. So brings up the questions, how often do you want to replace lights, do you want warranty/support, or are you after something to tinker with?

Mole never steers ppl wrong. Yindings have a low failure rate that I know of (I have 2 but they were early ones from a couple years ago), little said about them here anymore.

Beyond that, not much going on in the cheap light department anymore.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

As has been already said, I don't think there is one that is best. The BT40 ( or 40S ) is still a good choice for bar mounting. I might have suggested that you take a look at the KD BL-70. However the NW emitter on the NW version of the BL70 looks too yellowish to me so unless you are willing to retrofit the Xhp70 LED with a better/cooler NW bin I think I'd leave that one alone.

Since you like a duel emitter lamp there is one other KD lamp you might like. It is the Clone from one of the older Magicshine Lights. Since you favor duel emitters I'm thinking this might work pretty good for the money you're willing to spend. This lamp should have throw and a bit of a good side spill ( * I will add though that I've never seen one in use ). If you need more side spill you can switch one lens over to flood. This is the NW version with emitters in the more acceptable NW range. These were noted by others as getting hot fast but if you don't use full output all the time you should be good to go. I don't own one of these but I've always wanted to try one. I do own a couple BT40S's. The 40S is the safe bet for a bar light with a decently wide usable beam pattern, has a good track record but it does have limited throw. The MS clone lamp on the other hand is the box of chocolates. It's your money, throw the dice and pick your poison. (* While not in the product description the early editions of the MS clone were programmable. My guess is that they probably still are )


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## visus (Feb 4, 2009)

Thrunite TN12 (or any of their other 18650 lights) and whatever flashlight bar mount you prefer. You've got a great flashlight when you're not riding and you can swap in a freshly recharged battery if needed ... USB rechargeable lights be damned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

visus said:


> Thrunite TN12 (or any of their other 18650 lights) and whatever flashlight bar mount you prefer. You've got a great flashlight when you're not riding and you can swap in a freshly recharged battery if needed ... USB rechargeable lights be damned.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not that I'm trying to shoot down your idea about using a torch but the beam pattern from a single emitter torch is not comparable to a good bar mounted multi-emitter dedicated bike light and will not suit what the opening poster was trying to accomplish. Torch might work for a helmet lamp or for a back-up bar light but I wouldn't recommend using any torch full time as a bar lamp unless you frequent only the most moderate of trails. _That said a torch or single emitter lamp using a wider beam optic could indeed work very well as long as it has some decent run time_. RAKC already recommended the self-contained Raveman PR-1200 ( which can supply a wide beam pattern and decent run-time ). I would think one of those would do very well as long as you don't mind a cool white beam tint.


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## visus (Feb 4, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> Not that I'm trying to shoot down your idea about using a torch but the beam pattern from a single emitter torch is not comparable to a good bar mounted multi-emitter dedicated bike light and will not suit what the opening poster was trying to accomplish ... as you don't mind a cool white beam tint.


I agree that long throw flashlight optics can be a bit of a compromise - should have mentioned in use a headlamp as well (thrunite th10). I like the combination better than just a wide throw bike light. Also, anyone shopping for a light, do yourself a favor and figure out if you hate cool white - I definitely do.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

On occasion when I plan a ride that starts in the day and ends as the sun is setting I will sometimes use a torch/bars and torch/helmet set-up. However I rarely do that anymore because my Gloworm X2 I pretty much keep mounted on the bars full time and I can always use that with a two-cell battery if I want to travel lite. A torch on the helmet works pretty good when wanting to travel light but I still like a wider beam pattern coming off the bar. If you're going to use a torch on the bars it's best to use one with a small shallow OP reflector. The $15 ( NW ) Convoy S2 I use as back-up ( or was it S3? ) has a fairly wide beam pattern but it still isn't as nice as a good multi-emitter lamp. All this said, whatever you use can work as long as the person using it understands the limitations of the lamp ( or torch ) and ride within limits.


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## MCHB (Jun 23, 2014)

Personally I've pretty much foregone any bike specific stuff for lighting and have been using Fenix PD35's since January-ish (I run them on the middle setting 90% of the time and such the battery seems to last forever lol). Honestly I went this route so I wouldn't have to deal with external battery packs while retaining the ability to change a battery while out if need be. As Cat-man-do says (and for the beam pattern you're looking for) it probably won't be to your liking.

Lighting tech changes so fast these days and for someone starting out I would almost recommend just picking up a set of solarstorm X2's or equivalent (what I used to use) and if you decide you like night riding you can upgrade to a better set of lights at a later date.


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

I've also managed with torches ( bar+helmet ). Remember many of the folks on this board are _hard core_ lighting guys who can't live without thousands of lumens! I think I can keep up on more than moderate trails with my lame/old/outdated XML torches....but once you get used to these nicer lights, I'm sure the torches seem pale  in comparison.

I do dream about a dual emitter lamp for the bars tho' .... someday maybe. ( Just curious, it really is DUAL not DUEL, right? I'm pretty sure one is "two" and the other is a fight with pistols at noon )


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> natzoo said:
> 
> 
> > The C&B seen light seem interesting. I might the 1000LM version as a helmet light to test it out and see for myself.
> ...


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## natzoo (Jan 21, 2009)

MCHB said:


> Personally I've pretty much foregone any bike specific stuff for lighting and have been using Fenix PD35's since January-ish


For the trail riding that I do, I found that bar mounted battery+light combos do not have the mount stability, output, or runtime that I need. I have a Serfas TSL750 which is great for road biking and commuting. I like the USB charge and the simple mounting, but I just don't think its good enough for mountain biking. Also, I have a solarstorm, and while it is great for it's price, the light and battery are not on par with the nitefighter.

I bought a Yinding 900 and a C&B seen  to test. Like Cat Man (Forest Gump) said, this is going to be like a box of chocolates (never know what is inside). However I think those seem like the best bet.

I agree with people's sentiment that buying several cheap lights is more expensive than buying one good light. However, it is much easier for me to recommend a $60 light/battery to a buddy or teammate, and get him stoked on night riding, than to have them pay $200 upfront for a good light.

I appreciate everyone's feedback. I am hoping to compile a good list of lights to test and ride with so we can narrow down to a few good ones. Keep the suggestions coming!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> natzoo said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with people's sentiment that buying several cheap lights is more expensive than buying one good light. However, it is much easier for me to recommend a $60 light/battery to a buddy or teammate, and get him stoked on night riding, than to have them pay $200 upfront for a good light.
> ...


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

I got an email from Jenson USA (no I don't work for them) and scrolled down and saw this. Has anyone used one of these. At this price it seems like a deal and it's not cheap krap.

Take a look.

Serfas E-Lume 1500 Headlight | Jenson USA


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> I got an email from Jenson USA (no I don't work for them) and scrolled down and saw this. Has anyone used one of these. At this price it seems like a deal and it's not cheap krap.
> 
> Take a look.
> 
> Serfas E-Lume 1500 Headlight | Jenson USA


I've kind of noticed lately that there are tons of these self-contained dual emitter lamps being sold. Not only does almost every dedicated bike light manufacturer make them but just look on Amazon or the cheap Chinese websites, these things are everywhere. The Serfas 1500 is likely a good choice but it's using reflectors and most likely using cool white emitters. For MTB'ing I've always preferred lamps that use optics rather than multiple reflectors and I've always preferred NW emitters. Regardless I've used both before including the 3 and 4 emitter Solarstorms which do a fairly good job of illuminating a trail.



slcpunk said:


> ...I do dream about a dual emitter lamp for the bars* tho'* .... someday maybe. ( Just curious, *it really is DUAL not DUEL, right?* I'm pretty sure one is "two" and the other is a fight with pistols at noon )


In answer to your question, "Yes"...unless of course you invoke the "Double Definition clause". In this case the DDC applies because a lamp with 2 emitters ( or Dual emitters ) also can be said to be "Shooting out light in a battle with the night". This comes very close to the Merriam-Webster's second definition of the word "Duel" that states, "..A hard fought contest between two opponents". That's close enough for me but then again I have been known for stretching things a bit. ....but really though....tho....tho'....awe what the hell, fo'get'about'it. :lol:


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

For right at $100 and good quality (at least in my mind and experience, others may vary) I have to give some cred to the Ion 800R. Really well constructed and a good beam pattern from the smaller optic. I've used it a few times as a bar only light and had plenty of fun at night.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I bought my son a pair of the latest crop of Magicshines and I gotta say, for 65 bucks apiece they are awesome.

https://magicshine.us/product/mj-900-front-bike-light/

I bought myself a pair of Exposure lights in 2011. The're awesome lights, but silly expensive. If they ever fail I'll probably just get more Magicshines.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

NYrr496 said:


> I bought my son a pair of the latest crop of Magicshines and I gotta say, for 65 bucks apiece they are awesome.
> 
> https://magicshine.us/product/mj-900-front-bike-light/.


I wonder if that Magicshine case opens up easily to swap cells? It's not a bad price even if it didn't come with cells.

-Garry


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I just checked it. It seems like it's glued closed but it could probably be popped open without too much trouble.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ok , but I guess that means it's not meant to be routinely opened up. Shame. I should go into business selling battery packs & cases. I think there would be high demand for good quality cases. Shipping from the US to boot. 

-Garry


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Outbound said:


> For right at $100 and good quality (at least in my mind and experience, others may vary) I have to give some cred to the Ion 800R. Really well constructed and a good beam pattern from the smaller optic. I've used it a few times as a bar only light and had plenty of fun at night.


I picked up a Bontrager Ion 700 for $55. I use it as a day running light, that strobe pattern definitely gets noticed. I have it paired with the Bontrager Flare R taillight.

Its a nice light and would make a great light to keep in your pack.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

garrybunk said:


> Ok , but I guess that means it's not meant to be routinely opened up. Shame. I should go into business selling battery packs & cases. I think there would be high demand for good quality cases. Shipping from the US to boot.
> 
> -Garry


I have been trying to get GB to make a battery case longer than a custom light. Closest I got was getting them to sell the 2 cell Fenix cases.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I believe that magicshine battery is meant to be completely waterproof. It's similar to the 6-cell xeccon battery that I bought two or three years ago.

We haven't had to many posts on the Magicshine light with that new finned design. It's a year or two old. I remember they started overinflating their lumen numbers in the advertising and that pissed people off.

I have one of their original lights (with remote) and it's a high quality unit. I bought it several years after they had quality problems. I got mine from action led (https://www.action-led-lights.com/). That's probably a better retailer for these lights as the owner has a proven track record with customer service.


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## natzoo (Jan 21, 2009)

NYrr496 said:


> I bought my son a pair of the latest crop of Magicshines and I gotta say, for 65 bucks apiece they are awesome.


I still have the original Magicshine (the cable fatigued and broke, but I fixed it), and just like MRMOLE mentioned, it got me into riding and served me well. I completely overlooked the newer magicshines.

What I find interesting is that a lot of lights get a lot of hype on this forum (yinding, magicshine), then a few years later it just falls off. I am sure these are still great lights.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

natzoo said:


> ...What I find interesting is that a lot of lights get a lot of hype on this forum (yinding, magicshine), then a few years later it just falls off. I am sure these are still great lights.


I don't know about the "hype" but being a light and night riding forum we do occasionally talk about the lights we like. 

I think most of the regular posters on this forum have gotten tired of messing with the cheap Chinese lamps. That is why not much is being said recently about the yindings and other cheap lamps. I still have a older Magicshine 808 kicking around in one of my boxes of lamps. Actually, I was quite impressed with the 808 when I first bought it. I felt it did very well as cheap lamps go. It was quite bright and had a well balanced beam pattern for a reflector based lamp, although I thought it most useful as a helmet lamp.

The only reason you don't hear too much about the Newer Magicshines on this forum is because when MS released their newer lamps ( a year or two ago ? ) their marketing campaign vastly over-rated their lamps lumen outputs. When they did this it didn't take long for people who understand the limits of LED technology to question the claims of the initial ads. Later, when people began to buy the new lamps it became clear that MS had falsely misled people with their overzealous lumen claims as the new lamps were nowhere near as bright as the initial ads claimed they were.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Outbound said:


> For right at $100 and good quality (at least in my mind and experience, others may vary) I have to give some cred to the Ion 800R. Really well constructed and a good beam pattern from the smaller optic. I've used it a few times as a bar only light and had plenty of fun at night.


FWIW I checked out a youtube video on one of the Ion 700 series ( couldn't find one on the 800 ) but both likely are using the same optic. To me it look like a typical conical beam pattern. It looks like a decent light but truthfully I have a couple cheap Convoy torches that produce a fairly similar beam pattern and are just as bright ( with replaceable batteries ). If I were going to spend more than $40 for a self-contained bar light I would want some added features to make it worth buying. OK, the Ion 800 looks nice, has some side lighting and comes with a nice bar mount. One reviewer mentioned that the mount moves a bit if going over rough terrain and the battery is sealed inside the unit ( meaning it's not switch-out-able ). If you're spending $100 for the Ion 800, IMO you're not getting your monies worth.



natzoo said:


> I bought a Yinding 900 and a C&B seen  to test. Like Cat Man (Forest Gump) said, this is going to be like a box of chocolates (never know what is inside). However I think those seem like the best bet.
> 
> I agree with people's sentiment that buying several cheap lights is more expensive than buying one good light. However, it is much easier for me to recommend a $60 light/battery to a buddy or teammate, and get him stoked on night riding, than to have them pay $200 upfront for a good light.


The Yinding you bought is NW but the C&B Seen is likely using cooler emitters. C+BSeen suppose to be using three XP-G3's. I'm thinking you might get about 1100-1300 lumen depending on how hard they drive the emitters. Pray you'll get a good tint. No reviews that I see on these. When you get the C+BSeen I'd like to see a beam shot if you have a camera.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

That C&B Seen 3x XP-G3 light says "natural white" (note, not "neutral white"). I'm curious to hear what it's like and it's not a bad price (thought the 7x model would be around the same price if it ever comes back). I'm assuming it's a neutral white, but you know what assume means! Anyway, I was actually contacted by Roger at C&B Seen since I had left items in a cart looking like I was trying to submit an order. I explained I was just checking on shipping charges for various products. Good customer service (though it was also likely to try and not miss a sale opportunity). I could try to ask what tint emitters are in use.

-Garry

EDIT - Email sent.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Whether or not Magicshine inflated the lumen rating, the bottom line is this: I have a pair of Exposure lights that I spent about 600 bucks on. Sure, the wireless feature is pretty awesome but these finned Magicshines put out 90% of the light for a fraction of the price. 
I'd buy them again. Think of all the bike parts I coulda bought with the leftover money.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> QUOTE=garrybunk;13326203]
> That C&B Seen 3x XP-G3 light says "natural white" (note, not "neutral white"). I'm curious to hear what it's like and it's not a bad price (thought the 7x model would be around the same price if it ever comes back). I'm assuming it's a neutral white, but you know what assume means! Anyway, I was actually contacted by Roger at C&B Seen since I had left items in a cart looking like I was trying to submit an order. I explained I was just checking on shipping charges for various products. Good customer service (though it was also likely to try and not miss a sale opportunity). I could try to ask what tint emitters are in use.
> 
> -Garry
> ...


If we "assume" the XP-G3 emitters on the 1900 are the same as my 7up (was also advertised as natural white) the tint is not bad IMO. Very similar to the cool white you get with a newer Gloworm and noticeably warmer than the Gemini/Magicshine lights I own or the Rokkes I had it out with last night. I'm looking forward to the review of the 1900 and the return of the 7up since I plan on getting another one when the new ones come in (remote can be synchronized for both lights). 
Mole


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I too am curious to try out the 7up at that price point. Might end up one of our budget "bang for the buck" recommendations assuming shipping is low enough for the buyers location. 

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> QUOTE=garrybunk;13326307]I too am curious to try out the 7up at that price point. Might end up one of our budget "bang for the buck" recommendations assuming shipping is low enough for the buyers location.


I don't remember the shipping details but $53 was the total delivered price for lighthead + remote. Interesting that my 7up came with the very nice QR mount while it looks like the 1900 has a band mount from the description I read.
Mole


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Cat-man-do said:


> FWIW I checked out a youtube video on one of the Ion 700 series ( couldn't find one on the 800 ) but both likely are using the same optic. To me it look like a typical conical beam pattern. It looks like a decent light but truthfully I have a couple cheap Convoy torches that produce a fairly similar beam pattern and are just as bright ( with replaceable batteries ). If I were going to spend more than $40 for a self-contained bar light I would want some added features to make it worth buying. OK, the Ion 800 looks nice, has some side lighting and comes with a nice bar mount. One reviewer mentioned that the mount moves a bit if going over rough terrain and the battery is sealed inside the unit ( meaning it's not switch-out-able ). If you're spending $100 for the Ion 800, IMO you're not getting your monies worth.
> 
> The Yinding you bought is NW but the C&B Seen is likely using cooler emitters. C+BSeen suppose to be using three XP-G3's. I'm thinking you might get about 1100-1300 lumen depending on how hard they drive the emitters. Pray you'll get a good tint. No reviews that I see on these. When you get the C+BSeen I'd like to see a beam shot if you have a camera.


Correct about the Ion being the typical spot. However it was well weighted and not very peaky like some of the other cheaper lamps I have tested out. I was able to use it as a bar lamp and felt totally comfortable with it. I was pretty impressed with the rugged construction and was one of those lamps that "felt" like it was worth the money. Die cast components, good thermal path, easy operation, etc. So it's been what I've been recommending to people who ask me for a sub $100 light to get by with, and don't want to deal with external battery packs and such. The whole 700 vs 800 is just the typical lumen bump all the manufactures do every 1-2 years to stay relevant. So a 700 is actually cheaper now (I think the $70 range).

I just purchased the CBSeen earlier this week, will be trying it out. One of these days I'll bring along my nicer DSLR to the trail to take better comparision photos. I am still trying to figure out the best way to show the light in action. A peaky hotspot looks decent in photos because it's brighter, but the second you start riding you realize how crappy it actually is in real-world dynamic conditions. GoPro's never seem to be very good at showing it.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Oh, Roger responded to me that the quick release mount was actually included with the 3x 1900 lumen light. I told him the listing was misleading.

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> QUOTE=garrybunk;13326371]Oh, Roger responded to me that the quick release mount was actually included with the 3x 1900 lumen light. I told him the listing was misleading.


Thanks Garry, I thought it was odd that pictures showed the QR on the 1900. Let me know if you hear anything on the 7up please. Roger sent me an email a couple of days ago to let me know they had put me on the backorder list and would be notified when they come in so I'll post something as soon as I'm notified here and in the 7up thread.
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> QUOTE=Outbound;13326368]
> 
> I just purchased the CBSeen earlier this week, will be trying it out.


Another opinion will be great to hear, especially if you get a chance to get some lux/lumen numbers. Am assuming you ordered the 1900 version?
Mole


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

MRMOLE said:


> Another opinion will be great to hear, especially if you get a chance to get some lux/lumen numbers. Am assuming you ordered the 1900 version?
> Mole


I did, although seems the invoice is showing address going to Montana, not Missouri, haha. Zip code is alright, so we'll see if it shows up in a timely fashion or not.


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## Tatanka88Hun (Sep 7, 2017)

Have a look at the Fenix BC30/BC30R/BT30 line! Nearly 1000 Lumens in High mode, and if necessary for a short time, even more by pushing the remote button for Turbo mode!
You can get the BC30 just under 100$ with free shipping, and I think, their Double Distance Beam System looks very-very promising, you have a strong, far reaching beam, and also a bright spot just in front of you!

Since the only option, where everything is built in a single, weatherproof case, I would stick with the BC30, simple is better! I know well, how problematic could be a custom battery pack (in the other 2 models) after a few years, but in the BC30 you just pop out and drop in another 18650 battery in seconds, it has built-in battery case for 2 pcs of 18650, no additional wires on your frame, no dying battery pack becoming unobtainable in 1-2 years.


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## slcpunk (Feb 4, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> In answer to your question, "Yes"...unless of course you invoke the "Double Definition clause". In this case the DDC applies because a lamp with 2 emitters ( or Dual emitters ) also can be said to be "Shooting out light in a battle with the night". This comes very close to the Merriam-Webster's second definition of the word "Duel" that states, "..A hard fought contest between two opponents". That's close enough for me but then again I have been known for stretching things a bit. ....but really though....tho....tho'....awe what the hell, fo'get'about'it. :lol:


hilarious. always like reading what you have to say cat-man


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Tatanka88Hun said:


> Have a look at the Fenix BC30/BC30R/BT30 line! Nearly 1000 Lumens in High mode, and if necessary for a short time, even more by pushing the remote button for Turbo mode!
> You can get the BC30 just under 100$ with free shipping, and I think, their Double Distance Beam System looks very-very promising, you have a strong, far reaching beam, and also a bright spot just in front of you!
> 
> Since the only option, where everything is built in a single, weatherproof case, I would stick with the BC30, simple is better! I know well, how problematic could be a custom battery pack (in the other 2 models) after a few years, but in the BC30 you just pop out and drop in another 18650 battery in seconds, it has built-in battery case for 2 pcs of 18650, no additional wires on your frame, no dying battery pack becoming unobtainable in 1-2 years.


Having the option to switch out batteries is always a big plus. This means you never have to worry about running out of power as long as you carry extra cells along.

The mount of the BC30 looks to be pretty sturdy. Reviews on the BC30 are pretty good. Should work well for a MTB bar lamp. One review I read mentioned ( or warned ) that if you use on the bars to not let the bike fall and land on the lamp or else the plastic QR on the lamp could break. That might be worth considering if you use while MTB. Yeah, you can buy one for $100 but that doesn't include good batteries or a charger. No USB charger built into the lamp.

One thing I'd like to note; I love lamps like this that allow switching of batteries but it's time for the manufacturers to make these lamps compatible with the newer / larger capacity 21700-20700 cells. An extra half hour or so of run time is always a nice thing to have. Hopefully by next year more manufacturers will start designing around the 21700 cell.


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## Tatanka88Hun (Sep 7, 2017)

I think, it's a size issue, many manufacturers find even the 18650 too big for their products! (mainly because of this "slimmer is better, let's not care about ergonomics" bullsh*t, one of the worst things in history of mankind)
About the charging issue: if you start to operate lights with rechargeable batteries, you MUST have a quality charger. Doesn't matter if you use those batteries for cycling, hiking, tactical sh*t, or just going out with your dog, sooner or later you have to get one! (unless you don't stick with built in batteries)
An all-around charger for all battery types could be an overkill here, we need to charge 18650 (and similary shaped stuff).

I recommend the NiteCore i2 or i4 Intellicharger! Very simple construction, easy to use, compatible with a lot of battery standards! Charges with 4,2 V, not too high, not too low for Lithium batteries, and with low amper, good for battery durability!

You can always buy quality Panasonic/Samsung etc 18650 on ebay dirt cheap, but here is how I got mine:
Try to find "dead" laptop batteries at your home or ask your friends on FB etc.!
I bought some for 4-5$. After disassembly, most likely you will find quality japan or s.-korean 18650 inside, 3-6-9 pieces! Laptop batteries going wrong is almost always caused by only 33% of the internal cells (18650s) fail, and the other 66% is fine, just needs a recharge!
Put them in your charger, wait 30 minutes, and check them with a multimeter! The ones with over 1 V are good and could be fully recharged, the others are scrap.
I have resurrected a dozen of Panasonic 18650 cells from laptop battery packs, and I'm using them since years, sometimes charged with smart charger to check the capacity, they are all over or near 2000 mAh, which is a good value even for a new cell!

Good luck!
And don't forget: DO NOT buy any 18650s other than Samsung/Sanyo/Panasonic, and try to stay under 2400 mAh! (higher capacity usually means a battery longer with a few mm, and will not fit many standard cases)
Other brands often just repaint the japan/korean cells, and incredible capacity values are always warning sign for fake products! Stay away from UltraFire brand and other noname sh*t!


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Tatanka88Hun said:


> I think, it's a size issue, many manufacturers find even the 18650 too big for their products! (mainly because of this "slimmer is better, let's not care about ergonomics" bullsh*t, one of the worst things in history of mankind)
> About the charging issue: if you start to operate lights with rechargeable batteries, you MUST have a quality charger. Doesn't matter if you use those batteries for cycling, hiking, tactical sh*t, or just going out with your dog, sooner or later you have to get one! (unless you don't stick with built in batteries)
> An all-around charger for all battery types could be an overkill here, we need to charge 18650 (and similary shaped stuff).
> 
> ...


A couple things wrong here,

There are more name brand cells that are great beyond those 3.

I use 3500mah panasonic cells is many things, no problem. They fit in anything made in the last few years. Its the protection circuits and button top vs flat that make the big differences. Not capacity anymore. The size difference is TINY. And doesnt effect flashlights, cases, anything unless you buy cheap, old stuff from that only fits old and outdated cells.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## neabue (Jan 5, 2011)

Tatanka88Hun said:


> Have a look at the Fenix BC30/BC30R/BT30 line! Nearly 1000 Lumens in High mode, and if necessary for a short time, even more by pushing the remote button for Turbo mode!
> You can get the BC30 just under 100$ with free shipping, and I think, their Double Distance Beam System looks very-very promising, you have a strong, far reaching beam, and also a bright spot just in front of you!
> 
> Since the only option, where everything is built in a single, weatherproof case, I would stick with the BC30, simple is better! I know well, how problematic could be a custom battery pack (in the other 2 models) after a few years, but in the BC30 you just pop out and drop in another 18650 battery in seconds, it has built-in battery case for 2 pcs of 18650, no additional wires on your frame, no dying battery pack becoming unobtainable in 1-2 years.


When I emailed fenix looking for a battery pack they sent me a coupon code for 30% off at https://www.fenixlighting.com - So if you decide to get one of their lights and it helps, feel free to use it. code is: FF30J


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

neabue said:


> When I emailed fenix looking for a battery pack they sent me a coupon code for 30% off at https://www.fenixlighting.com - So if you decide to get one of their lights and it helps, feel free to use it. code is: FF30J


Looks like Fenix upgraded the BC30 to BC30R. The new lamp now has a two button remote that is now more useful. Unfortunately it's been changed over to a sealed battery. Other than that it looks like a nice light. Of course if you rather have switchable batteries there is still the original BC30.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Looks like you can still buy the BC30 thru Lightmalls and for 82.95. Batteries not included. But you can select what you want. It says the BC30 is 1800 lumens so a couple of good 18650's and you're probably under 100. Not a bad deal for 1800 lumens if Lightmalls is not overstating that.

Also noticed the new Niterider Lumina is available at 1100 lumens. Performance has 20% off right now, reg price 99 so would be 80 and you get Niterider behind it. I know you guys like a lot more features but last year I switched to self contained lights and will never go back to wires. Especially on the helmet. I mention the Niterider b/c it has a real nice beam pattern and w/ 2 on the bars (750's) and a 950 on the helmet, I've never needed more light and rarely use them on high. You can ride w/ 1 and have plenty of light. But that's for my good eyes. My vary for others.

Just an FYI for other options to consider.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

mb323323 said:


> Looks like you can still buy the BC30 thru Lightmalls and for 82.95. Batteries not included. But you can select what you want. It says the BC30 is 1800 lumens so a couple of good 18650's and you're probably under 100. Not a bad deal for 1800 lumens if Lightmalls is not overstating that.
> 
> Also noticed the new Niterider Lumina is available at 1100 lumens. Performance has 20% off right now, reg price 99 so would be 80 and you get Niterider behind it. I know you guys like a lot more features but last year I switched to self contained lights and will never go back to wires. Especially on the helmet. I mention the Niterider b/c it has a real nice beam pattern and w/ 2 on the bars (750's) and a 950 on the helmet, I've never needed more light and rarely use them on high. You can ride w/ 1 and have plenty of light. But that's for my good eyes. My vary for others.
> 
> Just an FYI for other options to consider.


Nashbar has the same price on the Lumina 1100 but their current deal is $30 off on a $100 purchase. Buy a Gu with it and you'd get the $30 discount and save a little extra over the Performance deal. Problem with the high powered Lumina's is if you run it @ the 1100 setting you get a dismal 60 minute runtime. Next lowest setting (900 lumens) is still only 90 min. and the next setting down is only 450 lumens which I consider a bit weak for any trail use. If those runtimes work for you this is a pretty good deal. Still at this price range for a self-contained I'd rather have a Ravemen PR900 that will give you 800 lumens for 150 min., a better beam pattern for trail use (1 wide angle/1 spot optic) IMO, a wired remote + an OLED battery life display that will cost you extra on the Niterider. One other thing is you can use the Ravemen as power bank to charge a dead Garmin or cell in an emergency.
Mole

https://www.ravemenbikelights.com/collections/pr-series-dual-led-front-bike-lights/products/ravemen-pr900-led-bike-light


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> QUOTE=NYrr496;13325418]
> I bought my son a pair of the latest crop of Magicshines and I gotta say, for 65 bucks apiece they are awesome.
> 
> https://magicshine.us/product/mj-900-front-bike-light/
> ...


I was looking at those lights (MJ900) and it seem like they have a nice beam pattern for bar use at a reasonable price. After comparing them to the upgraded MS 808 L2 I'm not so sure they aren't a step back in performance though. Action-LED-Lights provides adjusted actual lumen numbers which favor the older style 808 L2 (800 lumens) vs. the MJ900 (700 lumens). Standard beam is better bar oriented on the MJ900 (flood) vs. the 808 L2 (spot) but adding one of the elliptical style wide angle lenses makes the older style light equal or superior at every angle according to the beam pattern charts on the Action website. 808 L2's are on sale currently @ Action-LED-Lights for $49.95 +$3.95 for the wide angle lens cover and you'll get more power, a better flood + ability to use as a spot light with considerable more throw, a bigger battery with more runtime for less money than the MJ900 option. Sounds like a better deal to me for someone interested in spending a minimal amount for a reliable light.
Mole

https://www.action-led-lights.com/collections/magicshine-sets/products/overstock-sale-magicshine-mj-808-l2-4-mode-bike-light

You'll have to scroll down to get to the MJ900/808 L2 charts.
https://www.action-led-lights.com/pages/bike-light-beam-patterns


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> garrybunk said:
> 
> 
> > I too am curious to try out the 7up at that price point. Might end up one of our budget "bang for the buck" recommendations assuming shipping is low enough for the buyers location.
> ...


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Nice! I'm not ordering anytime soon though. Just ordered my BLF Q8 and still need to get (4) Samsung 30Q's to feed it. 

-Garry


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

garrybunk said:


> Nice! I'm not ordering anytime soon though. Just ordered my BLF Q8 and still need to get (4) Samsung 30Q's to feed it.
> 
> -Garry


Waiting on mine as well, needed 1 monster flashlight in my collection. Are 30Qs the way to go for it, was thinking of just 4 ncr18650ga myself?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

RAKC Ind said:


> Waiting on mine as well, needed 1 monster flashlight in my collection. Are 30Qs the way to go for it, was thinking of just 4 ncr18650ga myself?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


From what I've gleaned in the Q8 Group Buy thread, yes the Samsung 30Q's are what is being recommended - button top, unprotected - which Banggood has too - though I'm not sure how shipping them has been working out. I see Mtn has them too. My guess (I'm sure you could find reviews to check) is that the 30Q's have lower internal resistance than GA's or others. Now to work on finding a handlebar mount for the Q8  . 
(Sorry for thread derailment.)

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

garrybunk said:


> That C&B Seen 3x XP-G3 light says "natural white" (note, not "neutral white"). I'm curious to hear what it's like and it's not a bad price (thought the 7x model would be around the same price if it ever comes back). I'm assuming it's a neutral white, but you know what assume means! Anyway, I was actually contacted by Roger at C&B Seen since I had left items in a cart looking like I was trying to submit an order. I explained I was just checking on shipping charges for various products. Good customer service (though it was also likely to try and not miss a sale opportunity). I could try to ask what tint emitters are in use.
> 
> -Garry
> 
> EDIT - Email sent.


Roger got back to me on the emitters in use.


The manufacturer says: said:


> "color range
> XQ3:It is "neutral white" mean similar the sunning 5000k, (if you need other 6500k,we can supply it)."


According to the tint photos they included it says its an XP-G3 S5 2C. This was asked concerning the triple emitter light; I didn't ask about the 7-up, but it does say "Natural White" on the spec page.

-Garry


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> > Quote Originally Posted by The manufacturer says:
> >
> > "color range
> > XQ3:It is "neutral white" mean similar the sunning 5000k, (if you need other 6500k,we can supply it)."
> ...


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

MRMOLE said:


> > Hope to hear something soon for both Natzoo and Outbound about the 3up lights they ordered.
> >
> > Mole
> 
> ...


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Here's the wall shots for visual tint comparison of the 7up.

Gemini Olympia/7up








Gloworm X2/7up








Ituo Wiz20/7up








BT70/7up








Mole


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Hopefully I'm not derailing a thread but wanted you to see this. Occasionally I get Gearbest emails and this came to me. It's on a head band but I'm sure you all can mod this. I've not seen it before and looks like a variant of what you guys hammered out. It's low qualify most likely but take a look. And the battery configuration would not work either. But as a light head maybe it can be modded.

https://www.gearbest.com/led-flashlights/pp_734003.html


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> MRMOLE said:
> 
> 
> > They told me they shipped on the 5th, and might get it within the next day or two. Hopefully! I'm curious to test it out this weekend. Got a new seat to try out after I bent mine in half after a nasty crash.
> ...


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

MRMOLE said:


> Outbound said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing on the C&B Seen 1900 yet? Shipping only took about a week when I ordered my 7up.
> ...


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Outbound said:


> MRMOLE said:
> 
> 
> > I did get it in, yet to go on a real night ride with it. Though I will say it is quite good compared to amazon crap. Typical spotty beam pattern of course, but nicely weighted and smooth falloff. Very comparable to the niterider 1400 or Ion700 that I like riding with. Hope to get a chance to go out and ride a bit with it compared to others I've benchmarked with. Been very busy lately
> ...


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## Tatanka88Hun (Sep 7, 2017)

Just bought a Fenix BC30, it's a real monster!
Can't compare it to any other light which I have seen so far...
Level 3 or "High" (500 Lumen) is enough for everything, even in the woods, the 4th level is an overkill!
The reflector is brilliant, the upper part or the beam (which would be lost in the distance!) is directed directly in front of your bike, about in 50 cm from the front wheel the soil gets the maximum brightness from the beam, you get a V shaped focus area on the important part of the road, so the whole light coming out from the BC30 is utilized in the most effective way!:rockon:

Color temperature is neutral, or maybe a bit warm, closer to the yellow compared to my NiteCore SRT7. 
True relaxation to the eye, especially for me, after I got the Solarstorm X2 and saw the purplish light coming out of it, sold it ASAP.

The bike light has a feel of high quality! 
Housing looks very nice, feels solid, it's all aluminium with matte black and silver finish, slip free.
The power button has a pale green backlight, as if it were phosphorescence, not distracting at all. 
The cap of the battery compartment has double rubber rings to be waterproof, the port for the remote pressure switch also has a rubber cap, can be closed if not used.

So, I love this thing, really cannot recommend it enough, and I think, the whole dual beam family from Fenix shares the same advantages!:thumbsup:


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Tatanka88Hun said:


> ......the upper part or the beam (which would be lost in the distance!) is directed directly in front of your bike, about in 50 cm from the front wheel the soil gets the maximum brightness from the beam, you get a V shaped focus area on the important part of the road, so the whole light coming out from the BC30 is utilized in the most effective way!


I have a really tough time figuring out why one would want or like maximum brightness of the light just 50cm in front of the wheel? I rarely look at anything closer than about 2m to the wheel. I want maximum brightness out about 15+m from the bike.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

I didnt mind Fenix beam pattern on pavement but the more time I spent riding the woods the more I found and sizeable beam strength close to the front wheel a major hindrance if I wanted to carry any real speed. The plus side was the majority of the beam overall was almost as narrow as the trail. 500 lumens is plenty in the snow (or as a bar up light with a decent helmet light) but even for me it doesnt cut it except on the pitch black bike paths on my road bike.

Basically started understanding why so many dont like heavy flood beams. Too close messes with focusing up ahead. Speed at night jumped to near/equal to daytime speeds once I figured that out.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I'm going to agree with the last two posts. Too much light ( if too intense ) in the foreground can be detrimental and hinder the ability to see things better at distance.. The key is "intensity". Okay to have a wide swath of light close to the bike "IF" that light is well dispersed and not overly bright. This is why it is helpful if you can choose the optics and output on the lamp(s) you use on the front of your bike. Too much of a spot and you can't see things to the sides well. Too much of a bright flood and you can't see as well in the distance. Very hard to get everything you need from one lamp but it's doable if you have the money.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

Cat-man-do said:


> . Very hard to get everything you need from one lamp but it's doable if you have the money.


Don't need THAT much money.


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## Tatanka88Hun (Sep 7, 2017)

It's not focused that hard, you have plenty of side visibility!
I just love the ability to see more clearly in front of me at lower speeds.
There could be things on the road you won't see from 15 meters, but you will from a closer distance.
Anyway, let this video speak instead of me:


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Tatanka88Hun said:


> .....Anyway, let this video speak instead of me:


Clearly shown in the video, too much light in the near field washes out detail. Lighting is very much subject to personal preference and riding style. Too bright too close in for my preference. YMMV. If I had to use that light I would angle it up more to push that overbright area further out.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> If I had to use that light I would angle it up more to push that overbright area further out.


I hate wasting light shining up in the air out of my visual range but this method works pretty good and is necessary with a lot of lights. Doing this has allowed me to get more use out of floody lights like my BT40s. Works great on the trail but not a recommended beam setting for MUP or road use! 
Mole


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Vanc

That video isnt a great representation. Its over exposed a fair bit (remember I have one, its dead now but I have video somewhere).

But good enough to show how much foreground light these lights have. Even pointed up, the main spot is like Moles loved elliptical spot optics but turned 90 degs with a round hot spot out on the front edge.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

RAKC Ind said:


> Vanc
> 
> That video isnt a great representation. Its over exposed a fair bit (remember I have one, its dead now but I have video somewhere).
> 
> ...


It does support the claim that Tatanka88Hun made in that the maximum brightness is 50cm (20") in front of the bike. One can always switch down to a lower level to minimize the close-in glare, but then you sacrifice down trail light too.

I don't have the Fenix light so everything I'm saying is just my opinion based on what I have read and seen on the attached video. While the Fenix suits some folks, it ain't my cup'o'tea.

I find lights that light up the area near the bike and to the sides make for slower riding. Just like daytime riding, you need to look out ahead of you to see what's coming up while there is time to pick a line. Too bright near the bike messes up my night vision and tends to make me look close in, not out ahead. I find then that I don't have time to pick the best line and have to slow some while I react to what the trail is presenting.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Ah yes, that it does. Agreeing on both video and your preference, which I have come to fall in line there which led to my preference of my big lumens on the helmet.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## angerdan (Sep 18, 2017)

natzoo said:


> *As of now (Fall 2017), what is the best <$100 handlebar light (inc. battery) available?*
> Categories:
> 
> Robustness/Quality Control
> ...





natzoo said:


> there is no best light.
> Everyone has different requirements and preferences.
> However I think there are a ton of bad lights out there: low output, low quality battery, bad construction, poor mounting and usability, etc..
> I am hoping to get a list of objectively good options (like the BT40) not necessarily the best light.


Beside the named categories (lumen, Kelvin, beam pattern/angle) there are several evolutions of bike lamps:


 flashlight body with mount for use on handlebar
 
 offroad mtb lamp with round shaped reflector and low luminous flux (<200lm)
 
 offroad mtb lamp with round shaped reflector and medium luminous flux (200 - <900lm) 
 offroad mtb lamp with round shaped reflector and high luminous flux (900 - 4500lm) examples: YinDing, Lupine 
 bicycle lamp with reflector optics/cut-off beam and low illuminance (<40lx) examples: B&M Ixon, Cateye HL-EL500 
 bicycle lamp with reflector optics/cut-off beam and medium illuminance (50-100lx) examples: B&M Ixon IQ Premium, Cateye Volt 80 
 bicycle lamp with reflector optics/dual beam and high illuminance (150-380lx) examples: B&M Ixon Space/IQ-X Speed, Supernova M99 series, Outbound Lighting Focal Series 

About beam pattern: 


Outbound said:


> Created this graphic to help explain the beam pattern.
> The light simulated is a typical Niterider bowl optic, and matches my measurements. Obviously this is pretty simplified, and some lights are more diffuse, and some even harsher cutoff's, but was just trying to get the point across about a typical spot beam pattern vs the engineered design.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

angerdan said:


> Beside the named categories (lumen, Kelvin, beam pattern/angle) there are several evolutions of bike lamps:
> 
> 
> flashlight body with mount for use on handlebar
> ...


And if your read the first couple replies you would come to realize there is no such thing as "the best" for everyone.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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