# official xfusion rl2 fork service and tuning thread



## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Hi, i am starting a thread to consolidate service and tuning info from this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/x-fusion-slant-anyone-903382.html Almost everything you need to know for home service and a starting point for tuning, if you are so inclined. Should be good for all current xfusion rl2 forks. Mine is a 160 mm Sweep.

What you will need besides basic sockets/wrenches/hammer (i assune everyone has those)

park spa-2 pin spanner

28 mm socket, must be 6 point and ground flat like so for max engagement on top cap:








Piece of plastic pipe or long socket for reinstalling damper shaft

soft blow hammer

buzzys slick honey grease, its the best. or rock n roll super slick

torco rsf lite

torco rsf medium

Oil measuring device

New oil seals (if necessary)

new o-ring and quad-ring kit from xfusion (if necessary)

Oil bucket

Disassembly:

1. Remove fork from bike and place in stand at 45 degrees with lowers pinting up. Remove air cap and depressurize. Remove rebound knob








2. remove footnuts with sockets. Exposed end of damper shaft:








3. Use a 4 mm socket placed on the end of the rebound shaft where tehre are hex flats. carefully pound on this with a hammer to unseat the shaft from the lowers. Nice and straight so that rod doesnt bend.






DO NOt use the footnuts to drive out the shafts like on other forks, the nuts are too soft teh threads will strip.

4. Heres the spring shaft end. You can pound on this directly with teh hammer to disengage it.







then carefully pull the lowers off the uppers and drain all the oil.

5. If its time for air spring service, unthread the air spring baseplate from the left leg using the pin spanner. Then carefully pull out the air piston assembly while holding the air valve open.





















6.If its time to change the damping oil or you want to revalve it; Rotate fork so upright. Remove the lockout switch with allen key. Unthread the damper side top cap and pull it up just half an inch or so until you can see the oil level. Turn fork upside down and drain the oil, while cycling teh rebound shaft to get it all out. Then carefully pull the damper up out of the leg. drain any excess oil, again while cycling teh shaft.


























My next post: Tuning and reassembly


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

*rl2 service, continued*

7. Pic of damper:







some people including myself fell that the rl2 forks are a little too firm on small/stutter bumps. Someone on the slant thread mentioned taht removing the mid-valve would alleviate that. Or rearranging its shims. To get to it:

8. See the wrench flats on this pic on teh end of the oil tube below the upper part? Using a wrench on those, unthread the oil tube from the upper part. Youll need to hold onto teh upper end with teh 28 mm socket.















9. Now the mid-valve is exposed. Its the cup on the lower end of the base valve with thr ing of holes. Unthread this from the valve, its tough it has no wrench flats try sticky rubebr gloves or pliers with rubber in between.














If you look inside teh back of this cup, you can see the low/mid speed shim stack held in by an allen screw,














the dimensions of the stock shims in the sweep are as follows, starting with the face shim closest to the piston:

10 mm x .15 mm
8 mm x .1 mm
(4) 5 mm x .2 mm

All have 3m ID.

I dunno if other rl2 forks have the same, or differing, shim stacks.

Ive run teh fork for the last few weeks with the entire piston removed. feels reaaly good, super plush almost coil-like. It is a tad divey on teh steeps. Today i put the assembly back in, but put one of the small pivot shims between the 10 and 8 mm shims to maybe increase low-speed sensitivity but still have some support a tad deeper in. I may also try switching out the face shim to one thats .1mm thick to soften it more. that is, if I can find one it seems like 3mm ID shims are not commonplace.
I wont make any recommendations as I am not experienced with shim valving, I am going off some suggestions by a helpful fellow on that other thread. If any experienced shim tuners want to chime in here, including that gentleman, feel free!

here is a pic of the high-speed shim stack, which i didnt feel the need to mess with. It also is the blow-off for when the fork is locked out








At the otehr end of teh damper is the wrench flats to unscrew the rebound seal head so you can get to teh rebound piston. I diddnt take that apart beacuse wasnt necessary but it seems like if any orings or seals down tehre need replacing it seems pretty straightforward. Probly wont have to worry about that for a long time.

next post: reassembly


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## Tim22 (Sep 11, 2010)

#7 "someone on the slant thread mentioned that removing it would alleviate that". What is "it"? I will follow this thread. I to believe that my Velvet is too firm on stutter bumps.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

10. reassemble the damper: grease (and replace if necessary) the oring that seals the oil tube to the upper part, and screw it back together. I guess try to get it as tight as it was before.

11. Grease (and replace if necessary) the large oring that seals the damper to the stanchion wall. Carefully push the damper back down into the stanchion, but not all the way yet leave some room to add oil.

12. slowly add 70 ml of torco rsf light a bit at a time, while cycling the rebound shaft up and down to suck the oil in (make sure lockout is off and rebound adjustment is full open) when full, make sure the shaft is fully extended, then thread on the top cap and tighten to 60 in pounds. Reinstall the lockout lever.
Rotate the uppers so 45 degrees and lower end points up.

13. Pour 5 cc's of rsf medium into teh air chamber. this is not in xfusions rl2 service video, however my fork had it in tehre from the factory. Also the vengeance video showed it. so i assume its supposed to go in this fork too? You can also do this at the end instead by unscrewing the top cap.

14.Grease (and replace if necessary) the quad ring on the air piston. While holding the air valve open, carefully push the air piston assembly back in. and tighten the cap with the spanner till you hear a click.














15. Clean out the lowers with a bottlebrush or thin dowel and rag. make sure the bottom-out bumpers are in tehre proper place. clean the stanchions.Pour a bit of oil on the foam rings and liberally grease the oil seals and bushings with slick honey. Slide the lowers back on the uppers halfway.

16. Pour 15 cc's of torco rsf medium into the bottom of each leg, through the shaft holes. then while holding the air valve open, completely compress the fork. Push on the shaft ends a bit to release any air pressure in the lowers. switch on the lockout.

17. Now the tricky part, reseating the damper shaft. Xfusion for some reason wont sell the special tool that threads into it to pull it back on. Its a wierd size you cant find at the hardware store. Xfusion says an "older" sram chainring nut will work to thread on and pull it through, but good luck finding one. However, i found a workaround. Find a piece of plastic pipe (or a long socket if you dont mind scratching the paint) of the right size and shape that fits around the end of the shaft without touching it and contacts the bottom of the lowers around teh shaft nice and evenly. i found this at a hardware store:







Now you can pound on that with a hammer, basically driving the lowers back onto around the shaft, until enough threads show that you can pull it the rest of the way through with the foot nut. Again, remember to have the lockout switched on while doing this.

18. Reseat the spring shaft, if not enough threads show to grab with the nut pump a few psi into teh air chamber to push the shaft end through (but dont let the fork extend yet) then thread on the foot nut and tighten it to pull the shaft completely through. if the shaft spins you can hold it still with a hex key in the bottom.

19.Torque the foot nuts to 60 in pounds. Reinstall the rebound knob, reset the adjustment, pump the fork back up and youre done!


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Tim22 said:


> #7 "someone on the slant thread mentioned that removing it would alleviate that". What is "it"? I will follow this thread. I to believe that my Velvet is too firm on stutter bumps.


Reread that part, i edited it.


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

#17. Per advice in the Slant thread, get a second damper nut and cut it in half. The short nut has threads all the way to the bottom, so you can use it to pull the damper out. It will botton out on the top of the nut, but enough threads will show allowing you to put the uncut nut on it. This method has worked great for me. 

Ps, nice write-up.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Cool, thanks dbug! i forgot about that. Funny i called xfusion once to order a spare foot nut and they talked me out of it for some reason. i shouldve insisted. Might call again and order one.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Awesome thread! Thanks for doing it. One recommendation for an edit would be to add "annotate current settings, open rebound all the way, and lockout the fork". I know you mention this in later steps but its probsbly more helpful in step 1. When I get around to it ill upload some pics of servicing the DLA version as the air valve is on the lower right leg.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Dbug

Can you post a pic of the modified footnut? I'm trying to wrap my head around why a half nut works better than a full nut.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

Great post... Thanks man!


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Ramjm_2000 said:


> Dbug
> 
> Can you post a pic of the modified footnut? I'm trying to wrap my head around why a half nut works better than a full nut.


Its cut in half lengthwise, not crosswise. Its because the threads dont go all the way to the end, cutting or grinding off that end down to where the threads are means it can engage the shaft thread easily even if only a small amount of teh shaft sticks out.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Subscribing. This is a wonderful post and write up.



dwyooaj said:


> Its cut in half lengthwise, not crosswise. Its because the threads dont go all the way to the end, cutting or grinding off that end down to where the threads are means it can engage the shaft thread easily even if only a small amount of teh shaft sticks out.


Essentially removing the material between the end of the nut and where the threads start?... So the nut will immediately grab and doesn't need a certain amount of shaft/rod sticking through the lower?


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

dwyooaj said:


> Its cut in half lengthwise, not crosswise. Its because the threads dont go all the way to the end, cutting or grinding off that end down to where the threads are means it can engage the shaft thread easily even if only a small amount of teh shaft sticks out.


Got it. Essentially getting rid of the dead space on the nut.:thumbsup:


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Ramjm_2000 said:


> Awesome thread! Thanks for doing it. One recommendation for an edit would be to add "annotate current settings, open rebound all the way, and lockout the fork". I know you mention this in later steps but its probsbly more helpful in step 1. When I get around to it ill upload some pics of servicing the DLA version as the air valve is on the lower right leg.


there are some steps when you dont want the damper locked out, such as when unseating the shaft or compressing the fork completely before reseating the shafts. You only need to lock it when reseating the shaft.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Cool thanks for the clarification. I could have sworn the XF travel redux video (as well as during my last Velvet service) had me lockout during unseating.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Good thing some-one finally disassembled the RL2 damper, but actually, I'm pretty sure that the 3mm shims aren't the mid-valve, but a additional linear tune for the basevalve. 

Traditionally you need to look for a midvalve on back-end of the rebound piston.


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## thecrackerasscracker (Jan 12, 2008)

Great write up I could have used this when my 2 month old Trace RL2 damper disassembled itself and Xfusion told me they dont warranty their products purchased from an online retailer


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

two-one said:


> Good thing some-one finally disassembled the RL2 damper, but actually, I'm pretty sure that the 3mm shims aren't the mid-valve, but a additional linear tune for the basevalve.
> 
> Traditionally you need to look for a midvalve on back-end of the rebound piston.


I know what a traditional mid-valve is, but in the "xfusion slant anyone" thread, it was posted by someone who does suspension service that this piston is what xfusion calls their "mid-valve", and there is not a traditional midvalve on the rebound piston. But youre right, in effect this valve is an additional tune for the basevalve.
I didnt look at my rebound piston, but from a pic someone else posted it doesnt look like theres a midvalve on tehre... but i could be wrong.

Underscores the reason i started this thread. dont get me wrong i am a big fan of xfusions products; however compared to rockshox, which has complete service instructions and detailed parts diagrams, xfusions site is sorely lacking in this department


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

thecrackerasscracker said:


> Great write up I could have used this when my 2 month old Trace RL2 damper disassembled itself and Xfusion told me they dont warranty their products purchased from an online retailer


.which retailer was it?


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## grok22 (Apr 18, 2013)

Awesome. Thanks for the directions. I'm anxiously awaiting my 140mm trace for my Nimble 9.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Well ive ridden it a few times with the midvalve reinstalled but teh shimstack altered (i put one of the small pivot shims between the 10 mm face shim and the 8 mm support shim). It feels just about what mullen thought, about 25% of teh way between stock and midvalve removed. I think replacing teh face shim with a .1 mm shim will be the way to go. unfortunately I have to have that size custom made, I have requests out to a few machine shops for pricing, heard back from one but they have a $150 minimum order. Im waiting to hear from a local guy to see what he can do. Does anyone else wnat any? Illreport back.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Sure. I'll take one for if/when I open mine up. Depending on cost though


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## grok22 (Apr 18, 2013)

Is the mid valve the only tunable shim stack? Or is the base valve able to be adjusted as well?


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

I think the mid-valve is the only adjust for teh base valve; after I took off teh mid-valve and looked down the circuit it looked like a straight shot to teh port that can be closed by the lockout switch.. tehre is also a high-speed circuit with some bigger shims, I didnt tear it apart that far. You can see it in my pic #20. Those look like standard msizes I think thats what xfusion cutom-tunes if you want them to. But i could be wrong as to the exact names/functions of these stacks.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

If anyones ineterested I talked to a guy who can make me .1mm 3 mm ID 10 mm OD shims to replace the .15 mm stock face shim. Basically cost is about $50 for 1 shim, but like $6o or so for 10, the cost is mostly in the setup. So let me know ASAP if you want one and ill have them made and well split the total cost. id like to order them tomorrow because im going to be out of town camping next week. caveat: the stock shim measurements posted here are from my sweep, and I suspect its the same for the slant and the trace but dont know for sure. the 32 mm forks may have a different sized shimstack.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

I'd be in for 1.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

I really think you should look for the tuning possibilities in reducing the stack preload on the "high speed stack" for a plusher ride over rough terrain. 
Is it so difficult to disassemble?


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

I took out the damper and the "midvalve" "cap" thing and noticed that there were only 3 shims of 3 different sizes arranged in a conical stack. I wonder why in the pics there were 5. I rearranged the shims so that the smallest shim sat in between the two larger shims - hopefully to achieve better small bump compliance while not completely losing the mid-valve effect. 
Anyway, testing around the block, I felt as if the fork were slightly more plush. Real trail testing tomorrow.

Anyway, some tips: 
1. Use the right tools - I tried a socket and it almost mangled the top cap (those things are on TIGHT). Got these from lunar bikes and they're perfect. 


2. You can do the tuning mod without taking the fork completely apart. Just remove all air, unscrew the damper top cap, compress fork and lift the damper until you can access the wrench flats on the main tube. Some oil spillage is possible though. Then you can unscrew the top half of the damper assembly.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Cobym, which fork do you have? Mine is a sweep it would be interesting to know how the shim configurations differ for the various rl2 forks. If your big shim is 10 mm and the middle one is 8 it should have the same effects as my stack. i also put one of teh small pivot shims between the 10 and 8 mm shims but would like it a tad softer so want to try the thinner face shim too.

1.Was your socket end ground flat? Mine was and it worked fine. The lunar tools are also a great way to go.

2. Great idea!


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

two-one said:


> I really think you should look for the tuning possibilities in reducing the stack preload on the "high speed stack" for a plusher ride over rough terrain.
> Is it so difficult to disassemble?


Might try that down the road, looks like i would have to get some very flat wrenches to get at some of the wrench flats, but shouldnt bee too difficult. that stack looks like a straight stack of 4 -6 shims, might be interesting to change that to a taperd stack. And since those are likely standard sizes would be cheap to mes with. If anyone has any advice on specific mods to that stack that would be great. But IMO the fork feels really good on rougher terrain with bigger chunk/hits, its the small-bump sensitivity i need to open up. However softening up the big stack might help with fast sharp stutter bumps.


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## kand (Feb 4, 2005)

I'd be in for 1.


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## grok22 (Apr 18, 2013)

dwyooaj said:


> Might try that down the road, looks like i would have to get some very flat wrenches to get at some of the wrench flats, but shouldnt bee too difficult. that stack looks like a straight stack of 4 -6 shims, might be interesting to change that to a taperd stack. And since those are likely standard sizes would be cheap to mes with. If anyone has any advice on specific mods to that stack that would be great. But IMO the fork feels really good on rougher terrain with bigger chunk/hits, its the small-bump sensitivity i need to open up. However softening up the big stack might help with fast sharp stutter bumps.


Would cone wrenches be thin enough?

Just picked my fork up today. It's sitting in my trunk right now while I'm at work. Driving me nuts I can't play with it.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

i think a cone wrench would work. If i remember correctly its 12 mm, i have some cone wrenches but theyre bigger.


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

Ramjm_2000 said:


> Dbug
> 
> Can you post a pic of the modified footnut? I'm trying to wrap my head around why a half nut works better than a full nut.


You guys figured it out with words, but a picture is worth a thousand of them. So here you go 
This was my original footnut. You can see the silver area on the piece on the right, that's where the threads stripped when I tried threading it on like I've done with all Fox and RS forks I've had.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Well so far there are 5 takers for the shims. I called the guy back today and left a message, im sure ill talk to him in the near future and order a small batch, maybe ten or a dozen in case anyone else chimes or i want to keep a few spares. Ill update on this thread with price and ETA.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

sounds good. I might actually be in for a second for my Velvet (vs. My sweep)


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

dwyooaj said:


> Cobym, which fork do you have? Mine is a sweep it would be interesting to know how the shim configurations differ for the various rl2 forks. If your big shim is 10 mm and the middle one is 8 it should have the same effects as my stack. i also put one of teh small pivot shims between the 10 and 8 mm shims but would like it a tad softer so want to try the thinner face shim too.
> 1.Was your socket end ground flat? Mine was and it worked fine. The lunar tools are also a great way to go.
> 
> 2. Great idea!


I have the sweep. 
Socket was a bad 12pt unground one, but which worked on my fox 34. The xfusion caps are thin and soft. Good thing I stopped after one try.

Anyway, I tried the small shim sandwich which you mention on a real trail today. It feels plusher with better small bump sensitivity, but only very slightly. The mid valve is still very much present, which is good (one of the reasons I bought the fork and sold the divey fox 34). I'll probably try it with the cap removed just to see how it is without. 
FYI, I refilled the cart with golden Spectro 5wt which should be same or close to stock. Should I go with a lighter oil? 
The sweep fork doesn't feel bad, but it's just that my other bike has a coil marz 55 rc3ti. Hard to beat a coil in terms of plushness and it's maybe the reason I'm unconsciously looking for that coil feel. Attainable? Or am I just fooling myself.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

cobym2 said:


> FYI, I refilled the cart with golden Spectro 5wt which should be same or close to stock. Should I go with a lighter oil?
> 
> The sweep fork doesn't feel bad, but it's just that my other bike has a coil marz 55 rc3ti. Hard to beat a coil in terms of plushness and it's maybe the reason I'm unconsciously looking for that coil feel. Attainable? Or am I just fooling myself.


the cst value of 5w spectro fork oil is 21.7, the stock oil is 14.5. Thats significantly thicker. Unless you used the "cartridge fork fluid" whic is 16.2, close enough.

yeah, thats where im at. Ive only ran coil forks before and thats what im used to, so trying to do what i can to get more suppleness out of this air fork. Everyone who says air forks feel as good as coil these days is just high (especially your Zoke!). But with rear shocks, its getting pretty close.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Coby, do you want one of the thinner shims?


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

dwyooaj said:


> the cst value of 5w spectro fork oil is 21.7, the stock oil is 14.5. Thats significantly thicker. Unless you used the "cartridge fork fluid" whic is 16.2, close enough.
> 
> .


Aha. So that's why. I have a bottle of 2.5 wt coming so I'll try that first.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Just so im not leavin y'all hanging, i called the guy whos gonna make the shims the other day and left a message but havent heard back yet. Tomorrow morning im leaving for a 4 day camping trip out of cellphone range. so, hopefully ill talk to him when i get back and get these going.


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

Dwyooaj, Thanks, but Im ok. I have a couple of shims from an old old shock that I can probably play with.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Sounds good.


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## grok22 (Apr 18, 2013)

Anyone know if there is a way to change the lockout? It's just not a feature I'll ever use unless it can be modified to be a diffrent compression/platform setting.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Yes. Mine is the medium compression setting (and is still too firm for my liking). What they changed to get there? No clue.

"You can make a soft lock out (still not descendable) , or make the lock out function a medium compression setting (descendable), or also adjusting the mid valve if you feel the fork dives to much in corners (also depends on your weight)"


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## grok22 (Apr 18, 2013)

hokiebrett said:


> Yes. Mine is the medium compression setting (and is still too firm for my liking). What they changed to get there? No clue.
> 
> "You can make a soft lock out (still not descendable) , or make the lock out function a medium compression setting (descendable), or also adjusting the mid valve if you feel the fork dives to much in corners (also depends on your weight)"


That straight from xfusion? Any idea how to modify the lockout? I'd be interested in making it a medium compression setting.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Straight from them. No clue what they did.


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## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

Gotta give thanks where all can see,
I modified my slant by removing the entire shim stack, thanks to dwyooja's great clear photos on the disassembled fork, + my added 2.5 wt oil.
Went on a ride yesterday where the trail has rock gardens; sever breaking bumps; & steep drops as well, the fork works superbly for me compared to stock form, better than any fork I've used to date! Thanks again dwyooja for taking the time to get inside this fork & posting your findings & thoughts...


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

Kneecap, Good to know. Whats your weight, if you dont mind?



kneecap said:


> Gotta give thanks where all can see,
> I modified my slant by removing the entire shim stack, thanks to dwyooja's great clear photos on the disassembled fork, + my added 2.5 wt oil.
> Went on a ride yesterday where the trail has rock gardens; sever breaking bumps; & steep drops as well, the fork works superbly for me compared to stock form, better than any fork I've used to date! Thanks again dwyooja for taking the time to get inside this fork & posting your findings & thoughts...


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

I will be getting teh shims in a few days. they will be $6 each, or if you want 2 (d-bug) $10 for both. I know that sounds like a lot for a shim but such is the law of small batches. When I get them Ill contact y'all with my paypal. i want to make sure theyre perfect and flat first.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

kneecap said:


> Gotta give thanks where all can see,
> I modified my slant by removing the entire shim stack, thanks to dwyooja's great clear photos on the disassembled fork, + my added 2.5 wt oil.
> Went on a ride yesterday where the trail has rock gardens; sever breaking bumps; & steep drops as well, the fork works superbly for me compared to stock form, better than any fork I've used to date! Thanks again dwyooja for taking the time to get inside this fork & posting your findings & thoughts...


 Youre welcome. I agree teh fork feels much better with that shimstack removed. im still gonna try just oputting in the one, thinner shim, and see how that goes.


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## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

cobym2 said:


> Kneecap, Good to know. Whats your weight, if you dont mind?


I'm rolling at 150 lbs. no gear, not really that fast, but not bad for my age..


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

I got the shims, If you want one paypal me $6 at [email protected]. These users are first in line and gauranteed to get one: grok22, d-bug (for 2), hokiebrett, ramjm_2000, and Kand. Anyone else, message or email me first just to make sure i didnt run out.
I put one in my sweep today (to reiterate, its to replace the stock .15mm thick face shim with a .1 mm shim, and I also put one of teh pivot shims between the face shim and teh secondary shim) feels like what I wanted to do , just a little firmer than with the whole stack removed. Will test on trail this weekend.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Edit: its $6 if youre in the us. If youre elsewhere email or pm me your address and ill se how much extra international shipping is Thanks!


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

PayPal sent!


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

oh, and when you paypal me please note your mtbr username. thanks!


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## kand (Feb 4, 2005)

dwyooaj said:


> oh, and when you paypal me please note your mtbr username. thanks!


Paid.

Cheers

Kand


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

Paid.


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## grok22 (Apr 18, 2013)

Paid


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Paid


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Well, i got on the trail yesterday with the thinner shim mod. I believe we have a winner, at least for my weight and the chunky trails around here. It feels about two thirds of the way between stock, and the entire midvalve removed. Absorbs the bumps a lot better, (not quite as good as entire stack removed) but still has a little support for flowy trails and steeps. 
I mailed out the shims on fri to everyone who ordered. When you do the mod post on here and let me know what you think.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

dwyooaj said:


> at least for my weight and the chunky trails around here.


Mind me asking your weight and location?


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

I weigh 210 geared up. laguna beach, CA


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## vko (May 16, 2013)

Hello, does anyone know where I can find xfusion oil volume charts?


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## cstem (Jan 13, 2006)

Just wanted to thank everyone that has posted to this thread. I made a travel adustment on my Slide today and this along with the pdf and vid's from X-Fusion was very helpful. NOT helpful is the section here on the valving. Now I want to mess with mine! -LOL! 

Notes: Mine is a late 2012/13 and the damper side had no oil at all in the lower so I did not add any. It has worked fine that way for almost 2 years so...
Somehow one of the springs at the dust seal top fell into the fork leg while cleaning the lower out. I have never ever seen this happen and when I was sliding the lowers back on, it hung up and scraped the lower two inches of the stanchion which won't affect the working part of the fork. Be careful with this-could have been really bad if I forced the lower all the way up. 

Once again thanks and I will be doing my test on my new Vassago Verhauen (coming off a Jabberwocky) tomorrow. If I notice anything weird I will let you know.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

I'd definitely add oil....


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## cstem (Jan 13, 2006)

Ram-I thought about it, but it has never leaked. I have washed my bike once ever, and there would be a snail trail if it did. Also, on the Slant there is nothing to lube there. Looking at the pics on this thread, the damper rod is lubed by the oil in the valving area. I am going to run it as is and has been for the last couple thousand miles. Like I wrote, this thing will probably come apart again soon to do some valving work to take out the small chatter spikes.


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

Just an update after a few weeks toying with the midvalve: shim stack rearrangement v. mid valve removed. 

As a background, I first removed the shimstack and refilled with Golden Spectro cartridge fork fluid (which is supposed to be the right viscosity, I think) 5wt. Im 175lbs and the Sweep goes on my Turner Burner 650b enduro rig. I initially dove into these mods to get some small bump compliance from the Sweep, which I felt was a bit harsh new. But I quite loved the midvalve support which translated to better control for me on the steeps and braking. 

With the midvalve removed, the fork is buttery and smoother over the small bumps. Very nice and "SUV-like". Rode it a few times like that and was actually quite happy. But I had the nagging feeling to see how the fork would perform with the shim stack rearrangement. 

The shim stack rearrangement I am talking about is the same as described by dwyooaj above (switch smaller and medium shims, leave large shim in place). These are the stock shims and not the thinner shims from dwyooaj. 
Riding, it felt closer to stock, with slightly better small bump performance. It was smoother on chattery stuff, but still had good support against diving. I would say its quite closer to the firmer (stock) midvalve than it is to the fork with the midvalve completely removed. 

Between the two, I prefer the 2nd mod (shimstack rearranged). Less plush on little bumps but better control. 

Now I'm wondering how the thinner shims from dwyooaj would do. I suppose they would split the difference between 1 and 2 again. (Now where are those extra shims I saw laying around?...... = the tinkerer's curse) 

This fork is quite an amazing performer, especially for a tinkerer like me, and for the price, it dethrones my Marz 55 RC3ti as my favorite. Durability is yet untested though.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

cstem said:


> Ram-I thought about it, but it has never leaked. I have washed my bike once ever, and there would be a snail trail if it did. Also, on the Slant there is nothing to lube there. Looking at the pics on this thread, the damper rod is lubed by the oil in the valving area. I am going to run it as is and has been for the last couple thousand miles. Like I wrote, this thing will probably come apart again soon to do some valving work to take out the small chatter spikes.


Not sure i follow when you say there is nothing to lube. The slide is basically a 29" Velvet no? Enix? They should all have stanchion lubrication oil in the lowers. I can't imagine a bone dry fork is very smooth not to mention killing the seals, etc...


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

cstem, you crazy. the fork absolutely needs bath oil in the lower to lube the bushings,stanchion, and oil seal. Just because it was bone dry when you disassembled doesnt mean you shouldnt put it in. Eitehr you have a leak or the factory forgot to put it in.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

Have a question; 
I sent my Slide 29 RL2 fork in for a leak 2x in a space of 3 weeks (was told it was a torn o-ring at the foot nut they missed the first time they fixed my damper rod), and this time when I got it back they had replaced the uppers. When I called them to find out why, I was told they upgraded the damper to the one they use in the 34mm forks. My Slide was an RL2, is there an upgraded damper in the larger forks? And how possible is it that the same one is used between the different diameter forks. I don't doubt they upgraded it because they have been absolutely wonderful throughout this process and exceeded my expectations, I just don't know how the damper is supposed to be different/better. Just curious if someone here knows. It "looks" the same from the outside, but that doesn't mean anything. 

Thanks!


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## chize (Jun 13, 2011)

dwyooaj said:


> 3. Use a 4 mm socket placed on the end of the rebound shaft where tehre are hex flats. carefully pound on this with a hammer to unseat the shaft from the lowers. Nice and straight so that rod doesnt bend.
> View attachment 889707
> DO NOt use the footnuts to drive out the shafts like on other forks, the nuts are too soft teh threads will strip.


does this get around needing the special damper removal tool that they show in the video on their website (X Fusion Shox - RL2 Fork Travel Adjust) or have they changed something for the 2014 forks?

I just got off the phone with them and they don't sell the tool to end users only service centers have it, but i'm hoping that i don't actually need it. Anyone know?
thanks


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

In a word, yes. Thats how you get around the special tool. However, I read somewhere that theyre working on an affordable tool to sell, available somrtime soon.


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## babyz (Apr 17, 2014)

Has anyone experimented with any other shim configurations? Additionally, I am assuming the bottom out bumpers are the black rubber pieces situated in the bottom of the fork legs - are there supposed to be 2 bumpers in the air spring side, or one in each side?


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

dwyooaj said:


> In a word, yes. Thats how you get around the special tool. However, I read somewhere that theyre working on an affordable tool to sell, available somrtime soon.


That unseats it, right? But he'll need a different home tool to reseat it. PVC pipe or deep socket that is bigger than the end of the damper to pound the lowers back on.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

KRob said:


> That unseats it, right? But he'll need a different home tool to reseat it. PVC pipe or deep socket that is bigger than the end of the damper to pound the lowers back on.


yep, just like the pic I posted in post #4, step 17.


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## bkmad (Nov 16, 2004)

I'm going to be pulling my sweep apart in a few weeks to address a few niggles I have with the fork. Like others, I find the fork a bit harsh on the small stuff but love the mid stroke support. Also I've struggled to get the spring rate to my liking. If I have the air pressure low enough to make it plush (5psi below the recommendation for my weight) it bottoms too easily, but if I increase the pressure even by 5psi, it becomes too harsh. 
Here's what I'm thinking of trying:
- swap the shims in the midvalve to: 5mm, 10mm, 8mm, 2x 5mm.
- add a little float fluid to the air chamber to reduce air volume a little.

The idea of putting the 5mm shim at the face of the cup is to provide a small gap to allow some free bleed before the shims engage. My thinking is that a traditional shimmed damper has an orifice to allow some oil to flow before the flow becomes great enough to engage the shims so I'm trying to achieve something similar. Am I on the right track or way off?


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Cross post from the XF Sweep thread, but it is relevant here as well:


hokiebrett said:


> Also, I had my first warranty experience with XFusion and it was favorable. It was a defect in workmanship from when they tuned my fork. Instead of having me ship it back, they were willing to have me drop it off at DirtLabs in Boulder, CO. Quite pleased.


As I follow up, I want to give credit where credit is due. DirtLabs in Boulder did my warranty work for my custom (factory) tuned Sweep. They did a Schlube 'n Lube as well as a 'Pro-Tune' and the fork now feels wonderful.

This time around they put in Maxima 3W oil in the damper and made sure everything was very nicely Schlube 'n Lubed up.

If you ever want fork work done, give Luby a call at DirtLabs, great guy and great service!

dirtlabs.com

[email protected]
720.213.4742
3046 Valmont Road, Boulder, Colorado 80301
Hours: Mon-Fri 10-6.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

dwyooaj said:


> I mailed out the shims on fri to everyone who ordered. When you do the mod post on here and let me know what you think.


Thanks again for getting those made and sent out. I have not ridden mine yet for quite a few reasons (wheel rim failure, bike frame swap, warranty work on the Sweep... Oh yeah, also got married, took a honey moon in Costa Rica... ya know, normal stuff).

Next time I have the fork open for service (or if I decide to try it at 160mm on the newer frame), I'll give the shim a whirl and post up my results.

I too, love the DIY tinkerability of this Sweep!



chize said:


> does this get around needing the special damper removal tool that they show in the video on their website (X Fusion Shox - RL2 Fork Travel Adjust) or have they changed something for the 2014 forks?
> 
> I just got off the phone with them and they don't sell the tool to end users only service centers have it, but i'm hoping that i don't actually need it. Anyone know?
> thanks


It was me that posted up saying XF plans on making a consumer level damper removal tool (maybe not in this thread, the Sweep thread on MTBR). A few months ago, there was no ETA and pricing.

But, it seems its not necessary... As people here are figuring out how to do it without the tool.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

hokiebrett said:


> Cross post from the XF Sweep thread, but it is relevant here as well:
> 
> As I follow up, I want to give credit where credit is due. DirtLabs in Boulder did my warranty work for my custom (factory) tuned Sweep. They rebuilt to stock spec's and the fork lost quite a bit of small bump and high speed chatter stability...
> 
> ...


So all they did was change the oil to Maxima 3W to get your fork feeling good again? hmm maybe I should try that oil in mine.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

zephxiii said:


> So all they did was change the oil to Maxima 3W to get your fork feeling good again? hmm maybe I should try that oil in mine.


Yes/No.

My fork had been factory tuned by XF. They converted the Lockout to a Medium Compression ('Trail') setting. I do not know what XF changed to do this.

DirtLabs was contracted to perform some warranty service on my fork (XF had a workmanship defect after the custom tune). Upon reassmembly, DirtLabs put 7wt oil back in the damper as that is what was called for, but it changed the handling characteristics of my fork. Changing to 3W seems to have brought the handling characteristics back.

When I pull this fork apart, I'll take pics of the damper and post them up here. Maybe we can figure out what XF did to change my Lockout to a Medium Compression knob.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Well I guess I was trying to highlight the oil making the difference when Dirtlabs was working on it. 

Yeah info on your lockout setup would be interesting.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

dwyooaj said:


> here is a pic of the high-speed shim stack, which i didnt feel the need to mess with. It also is the blow-off for when the fork is locked out
> View attachment 889757


Can you highlight which one is the blow-off for when the fork is locked out? I'm thinking that's what XF changed on my fork. I'd like it to be a little softer, so I'm curious if it's a reconfigured shim or orifice?


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

zephxiii said:


> Well I guess I was trying to highlight the oil making the difference when Dirtlabs was working on it


He said they also Schlube 'n Lubed the crap out of it. The small bump compliance (rocky trail chatter) was incredibly harsh and there was a tremendous amount of low speed stiction (if you pushed down on the handlebars, it would actually 'catch' and get stiff, then slowly release). Big hits seemed to be better and I was getting full travel.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Well I ordered:
Bel-Ray High Performance Fork Oil - 2.5W - 1 Liter 99290-B1LW
Torco RSF Medium Racing Shock Fluid Bottle
FW-28 Wrench for the end cap

Going to change the damper oil (which needs changed anyways) to the 2.5w just to see what difference it will make, and lowers oil. 

Then I might play around with the shims if I feel the want to.


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## cstem (Jan 13, 2006)

So I added the oil (see older post by me this thread) to the air side and all was well after going to 120mm setting. Rode bike hard for about 200 miles then things got weird. The other night, lockout started to spin (with resistance) past the lockout setting. Then unlocking, it unlocked easy then the extra spin.

Then the travel became less and less to 80 mm, then full lock and extension, with the lockout doing nothing. I called Xfusion, got some great advice from John and tore in. I took apart air side just to be sure the travel adjust roll pin did not come out and dig into the side of the fork-all good. Took apart the damper side. First thing was the little nut under the lockout cap was loose. So I undid the top cap and noticed the top chamber was filled to the top with oil, and when removing the nut for the lower shaft (note- my fork is not like the sweep pic this thread. The top and bottom dampers are not connected with the tube and there are no threads to connect them, so I guess that is it MY2012) and the oil was less on that end. Cleaned it all up with some PJ1 Super Clean, lubed and reassembled with new oil. That fixed it and it feels better now actually. I figure I either got some debris in the lockout valving or drain back hole and caused hydro lock. Either way, thanks to all the contributors on this thread. I wish I took pics of my fork apart, but was too oily and phone was dead, and it was 105 degrees in my garage at night. Next time for sure. Tonight is a long night ride with some fast rocky chunky stuff, if I run into issues I will let you know.


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

Tagged for when my Velvet gets here.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Ok, took my Sweep for another chattery ride today. My ABP rear end with a DRCV CTD shock definitely outguns the Sweep on the small chattery stuff. Sounds like it's time to open her up and play with the new shim.

2.5W Golden Spectro fork oil is on order. Gotta get a 6pt socket from AutoZone and grind it down.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

My slide is built differently. I don't have a damper tube inside the stanchion. 

I unscrewed the bottom and it was just the damper rod and piston valve. 
I unscrewed the top and pulled out the top part which was only a few inches long. 

So the mod is really easy to do on the Slide. 

Keep in mind that it requires a different volume of damper oil, I heard it was 140ml. I didn't measure it as I set it just under where it started acting like a spring. Not enough and the lockout will not work.

Also the custom wrenches mentioned on the 2nd page is well worth the 7 dollars + shipping. I would like to get the size for the bottom of the damper but luckily I had a closed end for it. 

I changed damper oil to 2.5w which I think helps but hard to tell as I really needed a lowers service. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## bkmad (Nov 16, 2004)

bkmad said:


> I'm going to be pulling my sweep apart in a few weeks to address a few niggles I have with the fork. Like others, I find the fork a bit harsh on the small stuff but love the mid stroke support. Also I've struggled to get the spring rate to my liking. If I have the air pressure low enough to make it plush (5psi below the recommendation for my weight) it bottoms too easily, but if I increase the pressure even by 5psi, it becomes too harsh.
> Here's what I'm thinking of trying:
> - swap the shims in the midvalve to: 5mm, 10mm, 8mm, 2x 5mm.
> - add a little float fluid to the air chamber to reduce air volume a little.
> ...


Well I made these changes last weekend and went for a ride yesterday. I'm guessing that my changes to the shim stack have opened it up to much as the fork is quite divey now. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to have helped much in improving the harshness over the smaller stuff. Medium to big hits are still fine. Next time I have it apart I'll probably go back to something close to the stock shim arrangement - maybe try a 5mm shim between the 10 and 8.

The addition of some oil to the air chamber has improved the ramp up a little but I think I'll add some more which will let me drop my air pressure a little more for some better compliance.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

What oil are u using in the damper? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## bkmad (Nov 16, 2004)

zephxiii said:


> What oil are u using in the damper?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


Motul 2.5w. It was the closest I could get.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

bkmad said:


> Motul 2.5w. It was the closest I could get.


hmm, do you know the cSt @ 40c? Mine has been riding really good since the change to 2.5, but I based my oil selection on comparative benchmarks to the stock oil.


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## bkmad (Nov 16, 2004)

zephxiii said:


> hmm, do you know the cSt @ 40c? Mine has been riding really good since the change to 2.5, but I based my oil selection on comparative benchmarks to the stock oil.


Its 15.0 mm²/s. I think the Torco RSF Light is 14.5.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

bkmad said:


> Its 15.0 mm²/s. I think the Torco RSF Light is 14.5.


Oh that's why. The Bel-Ray 2.5w I got measures 9.2, maybe try that.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

So after some testing with the lowers service and damper oil change to Bel-Ray 2.5w Fork oil on my Slide...

The fork is moving a lot easier and soaking up more. Finally got to ride the home trail last night and it is absorbing the hits more easily. I set a bunch of PRs and landed 2nd place on my fav trail section as the fork just let me ride. I remember this one big root in a fast section that I would always feel and have to brace for. It didn't even feel like it was there as the fork soaked it up. 

There was still a couple of times where i felt a lot of chatter but it might be because i was at the top of travel where there is corrosive damage on my damper stanchion which causes it to stick. However if I roll through a root section or whatever the fork feels very well controlled at eats the rough up so I don't have to deal with it. I just need to get my crown/stanchion/steerer assembly replaced to get it working better at the top. 

Having done the lowers service which was badly needed it is hard to tell what is having the greatest effect. However I do think that the damper oil change to 2.5 is having a greater effect on how it is riding since it feels like the freshness of the lowers service has worn off just a little bit to where I can feel it to start getting hung up again at the top.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

What is the status on a more proper tool to remove the lowers? I heard that maybe they were going to release one, but haven't heard much since. 

What is the go-to method that people are using for removing the lowers?


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

Removing the lowers: Undo the footnuts and bang away on the spring side with a soft blow hammer/rubber mallet. For the damper side (with the rebound knob removed), DONT hit the tiny rebound rod or it will break. find a socket or small plastic tube that fits over the rebound rod, but sits on the end of the threaded portion and hit that with a hammer. Dont use the footnut as it is soft. According to some posters, if you can find an old SRAM chainring nut (I have no idea what this is, but I have tried normal chainring nuts and they dont fit), this can take the place of the footnut: thread it in a bit and hit that with the hammer.

I suppose you are referring to the damper side. Use a hollow tube that fits over the threads and hit the lowers with a hammer lightly until enough of the threads show to thread on the footnut and pull it out. a small PVC pipe, or even a socket can do (but it may scratch your lower). Lock out and extend the damper prior to positioning the lowers on the stanchions.

No need for a fancy shmancy tool. But being a tool whore, yes, I would buy that dang special tool from Xfusion if it were available.



y0bailey said:


> What is the status on a more proper tool to remove the lowers? I heard that maybe they were going to release one, but haven't heard much since.
> 
> What is the go-to method that people are using for removing the lowers?


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## DannyvG (Apr 21, 2014)

Dont know if this has been posted before but it seems the damper design has changed and it needs more oil (or always was different). My 2014 Velvet RL2 contained about 120mL and it really needed this much to submerge the compression/lockout circuit. 
The top part could be removed while the rebound circuit and rod stayed in place.

Does somebody know the official amount for the Velvet?


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## westeast (Nov 27, 2010)

Great thread! Also, the service video put out by x-fusion is excellent as well. 

I have to give a shout out to the customer service at x-fusion as well. I bought my dad an rl2 fork that we wanted to bump the travel up on and a few questions came up that required a couple of phone calls into x-fusion. Those calls were answered quickly and the questions answered knowledgeably. Couldn't ask for more. The fork seems to be very nice as well.

FYI, one question was regarding what oil is safe to use and it was a quick no on the mobile1 oil for x-fusion forks. I think this was discussed earlier in this thread.

Another FYI, if you have an OEM fork, rather than a push pin to adjust the travel, you my have a c-clip.


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## vko (May 16, 2013)

Does anyone have instructions, oil volume etc for Trace 29er DLA fork?
I changed the seals and after a few weeks I lost about 10mm of travel. Any ideas?


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Thanks guys for this thread. Really informative and something I would like to do to my Trace RL2 in the near future. I did a basic dust deal service following the instructions from this thread and the x fusion videos. All seemed well and the fork felt great. However, I'm in the same boat as VKO. I'm losing about 10mm of travel. I contacted x fusion and they were really helpful. They advised me to do the business card trick (zip tie works too). Basically let all the air out of the fork then stick the business card down the dustwiper and you can hear a quick air release. That seemed to help for a couple of rides but I'm still losing the travel. I checked the air chamber last night. It was completely empty. There was no oil in it. I'm not ready to mess with the damper yet. I just want to get full travel again. Any hints as to why I'm losing the travel? I can let all the air out of the fork. Once I compress the fork the last 20mm of travel or so gets very hard to compress all the way to the crown. Any info would be appreciated.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Are u supposed to be able to compress it all the way down to the crown? On my Slide at 120mm I have 140mm of exposed stanchion...though I think normally I push my ziptie up to only 100mm of travel. I should probably look into this and try the business card method. 

The best way to test the damper is to operate it by hand, if there is too much oil it will act a lil springy with it getting close to fully compressed...though you'll have to take the lowers off to do this.


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## mayonays (Oct 22, 2010)

Hmm, maybe this is why I can never seem to get all the travel out of my Sweep. Running 65psi vs the recommended 80 for my weight. Fork feels great otherwise!


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

My trace shows 120mm of exposed stanchion. When on the phone with x fusion, they advised that that it should fully compress to the crown pretty easily when all the air is let out. In order for me to do this, I have to do the business card method, cycle the fork, let air out of the chamber. I have to do this a couple of times.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

I weigh about 175 and have the air pressure set at 60. If go any less than the 60 psi, the fork starts to dive on me. I think at that weight, the recommended psi is 65-70.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

zephxiii - i noticed the increase stanchion when I kept putting air into the fork before the business card trick. I started to show 130mm of stanchion. Now I show 120mm when I release the air getting caught in the legs.


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

mmanuel09 said:


> zephxiii - i noticed the increase stanchion when I kept putting air into the fork before the business card trick. I started to show 130mm of stanchion. Now I show 120mm when I release the air getting caught in the legs.


You're not releasing air getting caught in the legs with the card trick, you are actually adding air to the legs. This added air goes into the "negative" chamber, which will prevent the fork from fully extending as easily. When the fork extends, the negative spring is compressing air. If you want to get back to full stanchion, try adding air to the fork, and doing the card trick when it's extended. This will remove air from the negative chamber and allow the fork to extend easier. The downside is the fork may have a topping out feel, and may not feel as plush.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

D-bug - I just opened up the fork to do a quick oil service. I noticed on the air shaft there is a yellowish bumper looking pad sitting at the very end of the rod. Sits between the lower stantion and the end of the rod. I think that might be what's stopping it to get the last 10mm of travel. The videos in the x fusion website does not have this yellow piece. What do you guys think?


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

You got a pic of it?


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Do you think I can cut it off? It measures exactly 10mm


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## DannyvG (Apr 21, 2014)

Isn't that the bottom out bumper? I wouldn't remove that. I don't understand why xfusion says you should get full travel because that is often if not always reduced by the bottom out bumper.
So your slightly reduced travel is perfectly normal.


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

Leave it. Chances are it's the bottom out bumper. Removing it will mean metal on metal contact when you bottom, which is never a good thing.

Can you clarify your concern? Is it not extending far enough or is it not compressing far enough?


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

I think you guys are right. I will leave it on. My concern is not getting full travel. My o ring measures out to 100mm of travel on the stantion. Sometimes I'll hit 110mm of travel. I was thinking I shuold get that o ring all the way to the crown for full travel.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

U know, maybe my Slide set to 120mm and only getting 100mm means my fork feels like it never bottoms out harshly?


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Updae - after my ride today I only got about 100mm of travel. I let all the air out and still couldn't get the fork to compress all the way. I brought it to my local bike shop and the mechanic opened up the damper side. When he took off the top cap, a lot of air hissed out and oil spewed all out of the fork. Lot's of oil came out. I'm assuming this is not good? is the damper suppose to be sealed? Can we just re fill the oil?


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Yes it is a sealed damper and is supposed to be sealed. 

When I opened my RL2 damper i don't recall it being pressurized. Yes all you have to do is put oil back into it...

However:

It needs to be the correct oil, either exactly what the X-Fusion calls or something with same cst @ 40c benchmark results. I used a lighter weight oil. 

Also you need to put back in the exact amount of oil it needs. Too little and your lockout won't work, too much and it will be hard to compress in the last bit of travel. 

I didn't measure it as I put the wrong amount in originally (going off a number for a dif fork), so i just felt it out by operating the damper by hand.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Thanks for the reply. I just picked up some Bel Ray 5wt oil. I'm going to tear into the fork right now. By any chance do you know how much goes into the trace rl2? I read 70ml on the first page.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Holy crap I did it. I followed the directions from this thread. Man.... Great job you guys. I got the Bel Ray 5 wt cause that's all they had at Cycle Gear that was local to me. I put it all together and getting full travel from what I can tell. Not really sure what was going on with it to not getting the travel but Hey, I can ride Demo this Sunday. Thanks again you guys!


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

mmanuel09 said:


> Holy crap I did it. I followed the directions from this thread. Man.... Great job you guys. I got the Bel Ray 5 wt cause that's all they had at Cycle Gear that was local to me. I put it all together and getting full travel from what I can tell. Not really sure what was going on with it to not getting the travel but Hey, I can ride Demo this Sunday. Thanks again you guys!


demo? Had i known you were local to me i could have helped out. 
Good job on getting it dialed.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Yup. Heading to demo this sunday am. Leaving Concord at 5:30am. Where are you located? I've recognized your mtbr name before. Thanks for all your help. That goes for everyone on this thread. Great info.


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

mmanuel09 said:


> Yup. Heading to demo this sunday am. Leaving Concord at 5:30am. Where are you located? I've recognized your mtbr name before. Thanks for all your help. That goes for everyone on this thread. Great info.


San Jose. Demo is my stomping grounds. Enjoy the ride!


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

First timer here...sorry for all the questions but this is the only source I've found online that is offering any hope. I'll just go ahead and spit out every question I've come up with, and hope some of them have been figured out. Thanks in advance if there are any answers. I've rebuilt many Fox / Rockshox but my X-Fusion seems like a whole different animal.

Any experience with the DLA models? These have the immediate travel adjust 140-110, but not the internal spacers, and are not 650b convertible. I just switched from Fox to a 26" 2013 Velvet RL2 DLA 140-110. The X-Fusion website is really bad in terms of tech docs...they have nothing in terms of servicing the DLA model, which has the air valve on bottom of the fork.

-I would literally have to bottom this thing out (crown to lower) to achieve 140mm of travel. Is this normal for X-Fusion? I run 25psi lower than recommended and still only get 130mm travel.

-I saw how you are all unseating the damper side with a socket. Without the tool, do you just pound the lower on to reseat it? I'm a bit lost if it's just as simple as hitting it on with some PVC, or if you need to somehow 'guide' the damper rod through the bottom of the lower at the same time.

-The air side on the DLA has the air valve on bottom of the fork, rather than the top. I cannot find any information on unseating / re-seating this. 

-X-fusion states that 15cc torco rsf medium goes into each lower. However if I rebuild the damper / air-side I see no concrete answer on volumes or weights...I assume this is Torco RSF Light. 
Is this volume something that people change the volume of to affect feel / plushness?
I called X-fusion in regard to volume and all they would tell me is that the damper doesn't need to be serviced enough to worry about it (and to leave it sealed)...

-(Negative air-spring): Regarding the 'credit card trick' above. When I drain the air valve completely and compress to test the travel range, should I do the 'credit card trick' and drain the air out of the lowers before airing up? Or do you want to do this trick with the forks extended (which I assume puts more air in the neg chamber)?

-Has anybody found a way to modify the lockout? I never use this and would prefer it to just be a stiff setting for gravel roads / climbing.

-Anybody tried the Enduro seals, or should I just stick with stock? Pointing back to my first issue, I think the Enduros would hit the crown if I ever achieved full travel...and do you change them every time you service the lower? I'd assume it's good to throw some slick honey in them upon assembly.

Sorry if any of these have been addressed already but I have some trouble following without pictures.


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## Vulcanius (Nov 4, 2011)

When I last serviced my Trace RL2 the guys at X-Fusion said they were working on making their damper removal tool a purchase-able product. That was probably 4-5 months ago, and they expected it to be available about a month after I did the service. Has anyone talked to them lately and found out if the tool is available now?


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

Damn..... 3 good runs. coral, sawpit, and braile. Each run I hit full travel. No brake dive, didn't pack or pogo, and tracked super nice. The bike totally rode different in a really good way. I'm pumped!



d-bug said:


> San Jose. Demo is my stomping grounds. Enjoy the ride!


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

Vulcanius said:


> When I last serviced my Trace RL2 the guys at X-Fusion said they were working on making their damper removal tool a purchase-able product. That was probably 4-5 months ago, and they expected it to be available about a month after I did the service. Has anyone talked to them lately and found out if the tool is available now?


According to an email exchange I had with them a few days ago, it it's available for purchase. He stated that the cost would be close to $150 if it was. He didn't hint at all that it would be available anytime soon either. 
A little while ago I found a site in Australia selling them, but I have no clue if they ship to the US. https://www.diymtb.com.au/displayItems.asp?cid=22


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

$150 for a chunk of metal with a threaded end? LOL! $20 seems reasonable.
What would be cool is adapter for this:
Park Tool Co. » TNS-1 : Threadless Nut Setter : Frame & Fork Tools


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

d-bug said:


> $150 for a chunk of metal with a threaded end? LOL! $20 seems reasonable.
> What would be cool is adapter for this:
> Park Tool Co. » TNS-1 : Threadless Nut Setter : Frame & Fork Tools


The site I posted above seems to be their Australian distributor, and the tool prices seem to be closer to $50 which seems reasonable. Either way, we can't get them. Also having to use an arbor press the change travel is a pain in the ass.


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

In an attempt to remedy my Velvet RL2 DLA 140-110 only having 130mm of stanchion available, tried the "Business Card" trick with the fork compressed...it seems to have taken away 1cm of travel. So, I Extended the fork and tried this again...which did not bring it back. Now I've basically got a 120mm fork....any ideas would be oh, so appreciated.


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

So an update, I pulled the lowers off my Velvet RL2 DLA...the 'business card' trick had nothing to do with it. The Negative air chamber is hidden in some far off place that I cannot find my way into....there is apparently no documentation anywhere on how to work on this. The air chamber is a black tube that goes up into the stanchion from the bottom. The negative air spring pulls it up in pretty hard. Damper side is fine; that cannot be the problem. I couldn't get into it from the top. 27mm is too small; 28mm was a bit loose and started rounding off the edges. Couldn't take apart any of the assembly under the cap, as that is the dial for the DLA. The only thing I can think of is if air or oil had somehow leaked from positive to negative chambers. The idea of sending a 2 month old fork in for service for something like this really doesn't sit well; especially with what few threads I have found mention their 4th trip back within a year... so if anybody has had one of these apart I'd love to know how.


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

ztbishop said:


> So an update, I pulled the lowers off my Velvet RL2 DLA...the 'business card' trick had nothing to do with it. The Negative air chamber is hidden in some far off place that I cannot find my way into....there is apparently no documentation anywhere on how to work on this. The air chamber is a black tube that goes up into the stanchion from the bottom. The negative air spring pulls it up in pretty hard. Damper side is fine; that cannot be the problem. I couldn't get into it from the top. 27mm is too small; 28mm was a bit loose and started rounding off the edges. Couldn't take apart any of the assembly under the cap, as that is the dial for the DLA. The only thing I can think of is if air or oil had somehow leaked from positive to negative chambers. The idea of sending a 2 month old fork in for service for something like this really doesn't sit well; especially with what few threads I have found mention their 4th trip back within a year... so if anybody has had one of these apart I'd love to know how.


You might have to be the pioneer that figures out how to open the DLA up. When this thread was started a few of us took to taking apart the RL forks and documenting it, as there is no Xfusion online documentation.

28mm should be the right size, though if you are using a socket you need to ground it totally flat to get the best contact, see the first post in this thread. 6 point is preferred over 12 point.

The RL models have a strong physical negative spring in them. It's made of 2 metal coil springs that sit in the area you are talking about, I wonder if the DLA has something similar.







The RL model's second negative spring is just the open area on the lowers, this probably also applies to the DLA. This is the area where the card trick comes into play.


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

Thanks! I was actually going to crack this thing open today and post pictures, but at this point I have to say it's just not going to happen. I went to the LBS and had them use a 28mm Park cone-wrench and the top caps just would not budge...ended up bending the cone wrench and started to round the top caps. They must have had the Hulk tighten those things on with red loc-tite.


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## Weedling (Feb 28, 2008)

Dam, thanks for the update at least. I was hoping to fix the same issue myself, but x-fusion have just told me that it would be 'impossible' for me to fix the DLA myself and it needs to go to factory so maybe it's a mixed blessing. Let them deal with those topcaps!


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

I went ahead and ordered a Lunar Bike Tools 28 mm Fork Cap Wrench (A-Tech Fabrication)...$10 shipped. 

I think that after I did the "business card" track, (or placed the lowers back on while compressed), I found that I can actually run a much higher pressure, close to the recommended amount, rather than >20psi less. This brought the travel back up close to the advertised amount...back to about 130-135 which is where it was when I purchased the fork.

**Edit**
I went ahead and called X-Fusion since they're back from Vegas. Super cool customer Service once I called the gentleman directly who responded to my Email. 
Apparently they have a way to port the DLA which should resolve this issue (A full 140 should show), but I'm sending it in for a lower service and having them swap the DLA with standard air-spring since I'm not in the mountains enough to really justify it.

I also asked about having the full lock-out converted to a stiff setting instead, and they are going to do this while they service it. I'm not sure what this involves doing, but it sounded like no extra parts are required. All in all, smooth transaction; if I figure out how they do the mod I'll post.


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## tokrot (Jan 16, 2010)

First off thanks for starting this thread!
I have had a slant for 9 months, over this time I have played with pressures from 65-85psi, I have serviced the lowers twice.
I have never been completely happy with fork, I have run various pressures over time and for a long while I ran about 68 psi, anyway I have a bit of fitness and decided to play with pressures again recently and went up to 80 psi again and this made a dramatic improvement in the way the fork performed. 80 psi is the recommended pressure for my riding weight and it felt the best in a long while.
I find running fast rebound improves small bump sensitivity noticeably(does anyone else find this)I was running it about 8 clicks from full open.
The issue with this was it would pogo a bit on hits but this was a compromise for its small bump compliance and general fork ride.

Back to this thread, I stripped the fork and rearranged the shims, I put 2 small ones between the large and middle size one then the other two small. I had some yamalube 5wt fork oil, similar to torco light a little heavier, and motorex 7.5 for the bath oil.

Well I am really impressed with how the fork feels now, almost blown away, the fork still doesn't dive but is now smooth/plush in almost every situation. Before i think the term is it would spike when hitting trail chatter or hits, now it has smoothed this out and just floats.

Thought I would share my experience and hope more people will chime in.
I am extremely reluctant to touch anything now as I am so happy with fork. I am generally a bit of a tinkerer when I ride alone I am always adjusting this and that but really this has been a dramatic improvement. Thanks again for the thread


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## grok22 (Apr 18, 2013)

Been riding my trace rl2 set at 140mm for about 3 months now. Still playing with the limited adjustments to fine tune the ride. So far the fork has been working well, until this week. The lockout has ceased to work. I do not use the lockout feature, but since it's not functioning that indicates somthing is wrong. Also I am getting a fairly hard and audible top out when compleatly unweighting the front. I assume this would be related to the negative air spring? 

So what are my options? I had planned on opening the fork to play with the shim stack at some point, but am hesitant to do so if this is a warranty issue.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Sounds like a loss of damper fluid...warranty it. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## grok22 (Apr 18, 2013)

Interesting, I have not noticed any leaking other than some lube on the statnions on the first few rides. The fork seems to dive excessively, lack of sufficient oil would cause this correct? I was considering running thicker oil to increase the compression dampening.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Yeah the diving is another sign of loss of damper oil. It is likely to be leaking into the lowers. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Weedling (Feb 28, 2008)

I just stripped my Slant DLA to do the same mod as Tokrot, only to find that I have an extra 10mm shim, the order being 10, 10, 8, 5, 5, 5, 5.

Anyone else found this? I am tempted to assume it's a mistake during assembly because they are so small and stick together really easily. 

Will go 10, 5, 5, 8, 5, 5. and report back i guess..... 

Thanks


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Weedling said:


> I just stripped my Slant DLA to do the same mod as Tokrot, only to find that I have an extra 10mm shim, the order being 10, 10, 8, 5, 5, 5, 5.
> 
> Anyone else found this? I am tempted to assume it's a mistake during assembly because they are so small and stick together really easily.
> 
> ...


Could you please first check the thickness of the shims? Maybe they tuned it by using thinner shims, but with one more...


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## Weedling (Feb 28, 2008)

Would love to, but no calipers. Will try and find a bikeshop that has some digital ones soon, they should be accurate enough right?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Weedling said:


> Would love to, but no calipers. Will try and find a bikeshop that has some digital ones soon, they should be accurate enough right?


Yup, I use digital ones as well.


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## tokrot (Jan 16, 2010)

Yes that will be interesting to know if they had two thinner 10 mm shims? I'm interested in your feedback Weedling. I have had a few more rides since my mod and it really is performing so much better for me.
I have been hitting sections of my favorite trails a lot faster and smoother.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

tokrot said:


> Yes that will be interesting to know if they had two thinner 10 mm shims? I'm interested in your feedback Weedling. I have had a few more rides since my mod and it really is performing so much better for me.
> I have been hitting sections of my favorite trails a lot faster and smoother.


tokrot and weedling...are you guys lighter riders? I am about 185 w/ gear on and have zero complaints with this fork. I am wondering if I am just suspension dumb and don't notice issues, or if there are no issues because I am heavier?


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## Weedling (Feb 28, 2008)

y0bailey said:


> tokrot and weedling...are you guys lighter riders? I am about 185 w/ gear on and have zero complaints with this fork. I am wondering if I am just suspension dumb and don't notice issues, or if there are no issues because I am heavier?


We are both around 150-160lbs. Tokrot mentioned his recommended PSI is 80.

Those of you who have the thinner custom 10mm shim, do you run it in the standard configuration or with the 1 or 2 of the smaller shims as spacers? (10, 5, 5, 8 ... etc)

Glad to hear the forks better Tokrot, will be out on mine this weekend!


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## Weedling (Feb 28, 2008)

two-one said:


> Could you please first check the thickness of the shims? Maybe they tuned it by using thinner shims, but with one more...


The removed 10mm shim is .15mm, so same as standard. Can't be certain of the one left in the fork but I am pretty sure its the same. No wonder i thought this fork was over dampened!


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## tokrot (Jan 16, 2010)

Weedling said:


> The removed 10mm shim is .15mm, so same as standard. Can't be certain of the one left in the fork but I am pretty sure its the same. No wonder i thought this fork was over dampened!


y0bailey, I weigh 180#, so about the same as you kitted up.
I guess I do like tinkering and my fork was due a service so found this thread re tuning the shim stacks so thought i would try it while it was apart.
I never found my fork that plush so was keen on trying something.
There has been a couple of people on here play with shims and been happy with results.

Unfortunately for Weedling I guess after you try the fork this weekend with the 10,55,8,55 config you will probably want to try it back standard with the single 10mm shim!


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## Dr KennethNoisewater (Oct 4, 2014)

grok22 said:


> The lockout has ceased to work. I do not use the lockout feature, but since it's not functioning that indicates somthing is wrong. Also I am getting a fairly hard and audible top out when compleatly unweighting the front. I assume this would be related to the negative air spring?


Hey grok22, fwiw, I had the same issue on my sweep rl2. When I took the damper apart, I noticed that the oil tube was only finger tight to the upper part of the damper (see step 8 on the first page for a reference). The majority of the oil had gone down to the lowers. Greased and tightened everything back up, added correct amounts of oil and the lockout is back in action, and no more of that terrible "top out sound" as you called it. Hope this works for you as well!


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## grok22 (Apr 18, 2013)

Dr KennethNoisewater said:


> Hey grok22, fwiw, I had the same issue on my sweep rl2. When I took the damper apart, I noticed that the oil tube was only finger tight to the upper part of the damper (see step 8 on the first page for a reference). The majority of the oil had gone down to the lowers. Greased and tightened everything back up, added correct amounts of oil and the lockout is back in action, and no more of that terrible "top out sound" as you called it. Hope this works for you as well!


Hey thanks for the advice. Now I just have to find time I'm not riding to pull it apart.


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## RicB (Apr 4, 2007)

My Slant just developed the 'not getting full travel' problem.

It's been fine for 9 months but a full weekend of downhilling might've been a bit much!

The problem is definitely with the damper as even at 0psi I can't get the last 5cm of travel. I whipped the lowers off and tried to compress the damper rod by hand. It should compress almost to the bottom of the stanchion but it reaches a point where it feels I'm compressing air

I opened the damping leg top cap and a fair bit of air pished out along with some oil. So I figure either the damper has hydro locked by sucking up some of the lower leg oil, or somehow it's been compressed with air

I emptied out all the oil and have some on order to refill the damper (Rock oil 5wt is the correct cst and available from crc)

Bit worried it'll happen again. I can change the seals but the main damper seal against the stanchion doesn't move so it shouldn't have worn...


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## Weedling (Feb 28, 2008)

A big thanks to all who have contributed to this thread, my slant is now so much better after doing the shimstack rearrangement! The initial harshness is greatly reduced, plusher, but still enough support for when things get rowdy. I am going to just leave it alone now until it needs a service.

I was pretty daunted about doing it at first, but thanks to this thread it was actually pretty easy!

Running 75 psi @ 160lbs with Motul 2.5w (15 [email protected]) in the damper.

Cheers!


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

I recently got my hands on a Sweep RL2, which the owner found too harsh (he was used to the lovely Pike), so he asked me to give the Sweep a service, and see if I could retune it a little.
So I went to work, and disassembled the fork to feel how the damper felt when completely disassembled. I noticed you can really feel the damping at any speed, even at the lower speeds. So it's pretty clear that there is no free bleed in the compression stroke.
So I changed the midvalve stack to 10, 5, 8, 5, 5, 5 to soften the low speed damping.
I also decided to crack open the lockout blowoff, to check its shim configuration. You can see the measurements below:







When I look at the individual port-sizes for the low- and highspeed (lockout) circuits, I figure that that the lockout-circuit is only used in extreme situations. The ring shim creates a concave surface for the four 18x0.15mm shims to press against, and is therefore costs a lot of force to open up. Maybe when hitting a large root or rock straight-on.
So I figured I would reduce some of that stack preload to soften the lockout and involve its circuit at lower speeds. So I moved the ring shim further up the stack, so that only two 18x0.15mm are above it. The total number of shims is still the same, but now preload is reduced!

My friend will try this configuration next week, so until then I hope to hear your opinions as well.
Be aware that you will need a THIN 12mm wrench to loosen the piston bolt (that also contains the midvalve assembly).


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

So to clarify, the current lockout stack is:
18x0.2
18x0.15 (2)
18x0.3 + 16x0.15 (ring and centering shim)
18x0.15 (2)
12x0.15 (4)


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

RicB, This is exactly what happened to my trace RL2. I put 70cc of 5 wt oil and the first ride was unbelievable. Full travel and smooth. I've put a fair amount of miles on it since then not getting full travel as easy as when I drained the damper oil.



RicB said:


> My Slant just developed the 'not getting full travel' problem.
> 
> It's been fine for 9 months but a full weekend of downhilling might've been a bit much!
> 
> ...


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

two-one said:


> So to clarify, the current lockout stack is:
> 18x0.2
> 18x0.15 (2)
> 18x0.3 + 16x0.15 (ring and centering shim)
> ...


Good info two-one! Thanks. I've been going back and forth on whether or not to try an xfusion fork and that answered some of my worries possibilities for revalving the rl2 damper. Not as robust as abs+ but may be a good option at some point since deals on Manitou's are getting harder to find.

This thing basically has a base valve with a low speed free bleed that is controlled by the small shim stack. What I don't get is why they didn't incorporate a few detents into the adjuster so that it would have some more courser lsc adjustment. The high speed stack will still flow oil even with the damper open even though it's a pretty stiff stack, but like you have found, you can easily tune when it comes into play. If you want better square edge performance, I'd be working with the high speed stack. Did you happen to measure the size/geometry of the piston ports?

Has anyone tried running the damper partially closed? It will probably ride fairly harsh without softening the high speed stack.

Just judging by the pictures, it looks like you could go substantially softer on the high speed stack if you wanted more of a trail mode with the damper closed.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Does anyone know what model years of the Velvet had this same damper in it? I tried contacting xfusion, but got quickly fed up with the lack of technical knowledge by the guy tasked with answering my questions. From what I could gather, the early models and the latest models don't have this "midvalve" design.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

ktm520 said:


> If you want better square edge performance, I'd be working with the high speed stack. Did you happen to measure the size/geometry of the piston ports?
> 
> Has anyone tried running the damper partially closed? It will probably ride fairly harsh without softening the high speed stack.
> 
> Just judging by the pictures, it looks like you could go substantially softer on the high speed stack if you wanted more of a trail mode with the damper closed.


I have only measured the ports in the midvalve assembly, which were 12 holes with 1mm diameter, so roughly equivalent to a single hole of 3,5mm.
Looking at the pictures, the highspeed circuit looks like six ports of ~2mm, so about twice the flow area of the lowspeed circuit. But to make sure, I will have to measure all the other flowing area's... not just the ending ports.

One of the tuning options is removing all the preload from the lockout stack, so you have two linear circuits parallel to each other. Running the lockout open will be equivalent to a single softer stack, while the lockout closed would give a firm stack, ideal for slow technical singletrack, or freeride.


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## RicB (Apr 4, 2007)

@mmanuel09 - So yours improved and then gradually got worse again?

Mine's definitely hydrolocked. Will need to keep a close eye on things when i refill.

The easy way to 'bleed' the damper would be to take all the air out of the spring side, loosen the damper top cap most of the way, then slowly compress the fork and catch the excess oil as it comes out of the damper side.

Unfortunately this means the lowers oil and damper oil have mixed so things won't be perfect but at least it's a quick fix if you're away riding for the weekend


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

Had my Velvet RL2 DLA converted to non-DLA (140mm), thinking this would fix my issue of only 130 - 135mm of visible stanchion. Got it back and it's still showing just over 130. Any other Velvet 140 owners, and does it generally give you less than this? If I pull the uppers and lowers away from each other, I can get 140 to show, but it never decompresses that far.


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## vettracer (Dec 11, 2011)

On my Velvet RL2 DLA, I just measured 144mm from the top of the seal to the bottom of the crown. There is also a line of the fork tube at exactly 140mm from the top of the seal showing how far the fork has been compressed out riding. With DLA engaged it is 30mm shorter.

I have put about 500 miles on this fork over the past 5 months, I use DLA several times each ride and I have done zero maintainence and have had zero issues. 

Cheers,

Lawrence


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

ztbishop said:


> Had my Velvet RL2 DLA converted to non-DLA (140mm), thinking this would fix my issue of only 130 - 135mm of visible stanchion. Got it back and it's still showing just over 130. Any other Velvet 140 owners, and does it generally give you less than this? If I pull the uppers and lowers away from each other, I can get 140 to show, but it never decompresses that far.


The spring system on air X-Fusions (bar the DLA) is quite simple.
There is no negative chamber that can suck up travel. Only a negative spring.

As a light rider, per my experience with other similar systems, the negative spring is too stiff for my recommended pressure making it show less stanchion length.

Try upping up the pressure and see if that makes it extend. If so, your negative spring is too stiff for your weight. If not, look at the air plunger assembly. Probably it was set to 130mm


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

should have an update soon


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

I was thinking the same thing. Just using a syringe to suck up some of that oil. I'm still able to get full travel but only on really hard hits. The fork doesn't soak up the trail like it did when I first re serviced it. Losing travel little by little. But yeah, I was thinking of doing that trick you just described.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Two-one, thanks for opening up the high-speed circuit, I think im gonna do the mod you did and see how it goes!


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Ztbishop

Do you have the 10mm 650b spacer installed? In many forks you wont get the full 140 anyway due to the bottom out bumper, that's by design.

If its an RL2 you won't have a 130mm option only 100 120 and 140 options. 130 definitely makes me think the 10mm 650b spacer is installed.


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## Mainturion (Dec 21, 2010)

It's my Sweep that got Two-One's precision fork surgery.
As Two-One mentiond I was after the 'Pike feeling' for my Sweep since I like that in general and will ride a City Downhill which involves a lot of stairs in november.

Today I gave it a try and I am really happy with the result, of course the test ride sent me down a lot of.....stairs!
The Sweep now absorb them transforming them in a flowy descend as where before all the individual steps could be felt.
As for the lock-out: it's less 'absolute'. For climbing the 'in between position' at 45 degrees is a good solution as well.

Front and rear are well balanced now, very happy with the result.:thumbsup:


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## bkmad (Nov 16, 2004)

I had my sweep apart on the weekend for a service and to change the travel from 140 to 160mm. A tip for anyone else planning to adjust the travel, you can tap the pin out of the travel adjust thing with the pin from a chain breaker. Its the same size. I just unscrewed the pin from my chain breaker and then used it like a drift to tap the pin out of the travel adjuster. Not as controlled as an arbour press, but it did the job fine.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Check it out: Instagram

Only 5 dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

zephxiii said:


> Check it out: Instagram
> 
> Only 5 dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Nice! I emailed them to get one ordered


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

zephxiii said:


> Check it out: Instagram
> 
> Only 5 dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Finally! Im ordering one tomorrow.


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## RicB (Apr 4, 2007)

So....I've managed to strip the hex head of the little screen that holds the blue lockout top cap in place.

Don't suppose anyone knows what thread/size it is?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

RicB said:


> So....I've managed to strip the hex head of the little screen that holds the blue lockout top cap in place.
> 
> Don't suppose anyone knows what thread/size it is?


Try to use a torx key thats only a little bigger, T7 or T8?...


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## RicB (Apr 4, 2007)

Yea I could bang in a T6 but I'm after a slightly more long-term solution 

I suspect the thread is M1.6 (8mm long) so I've ordered some screws to check. 1.5mm hex heads have no place on mtb components. Even my old RC car didn't have hex heads that small!


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## RicB (Apr 4, 2007)

So for information, the screws are m2.5 x 8mm

I've bought some spares from eBay, which handily come with a bigger (2mm) hex head so far less likely to strip

Big thanks to James at J-Tech, who posted a new screw out when I emailed to check the size. Awesome service


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## jm2e (Mar 26, 2012)

Has anybody had looseness between the uppers and lowers? My wife told me she thought her headset was loose so I was checking the bike out and the headset is fine. After some head scratching and more bike wiggling, I realized there is play between the uppers and lowers. It's very easy to feel if I stick a finger between the lower and the fork brace and rock the front end with the front brake locked up.
The fork is pretty new. It was given a "light rider" "custom" tune at the factory when new. The rider is about 120lbs and runs about 35psi to get appropriate sag. I'm going back and forth between contacting XFusion and sending it back to them.......again, or taking it apart and seeing if a basic service will fix it. I'm erring toward sending it back because reliability has already been an issue with it, and based on the symptoms I'm worried it's a bad bushing problem.

To exacerbate things, despite the "light rider" tune, the fork still doesn't get full extension at the low pressure she's riding. I'm thinking it needs an even lighter negative spring than the "custom" one they presumably installed previously.

Any input is greatly appreciated.


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

I have a knocking on my Trace which looks to be due to bushing play. If it's really bad or really bugs the rider, then return it. But under fork operation oil gets in there and fills the gap and it's not noticeable while riding. 

As for the issue about getting full travel:
1. let all the air out of the fork
2. compress it about half way
3. do the zip-tie technique described earlier in this thread. (this is how the negative chamber is filled. Heavier riders are going to compress it all the way for a firmer negative spring, but at 35 PSI you won't need that strong of a negative spring, and a strong negative spring will overpower the positive spring. So try compressing only half way. If you get a top-out clunk, repeat the steps but go 3/4 compressed when you do the zip-tie trick. If you still can't get it to fully extend try compressing it 1/4 of the way for the zip-tie trick.)
Also, if it's extending to just a few mm short of full extension I personally wouldn't worry about those last few mm. When it reaches about 7mm short I for sure would be looking to reduce negative spring PSI.
4. Inflate the air chamber to 35psi and see how it works.

It might sound like a bit of work, but once you figure it out it will be a non-issue.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Well I just did Two-ones's mod on the lockout/highspeed shim stack. Oddly, mine had only 3 of teh small shims on teh top of teh stack, not 4. Just testing it on the street, quite a difference. Feels more responsive and coil-like. Trail test as soon as my back heals. Thanks dude!


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## pharcyde (Aug 30, 2008)

d-bug said:


> I have a knocking on my Trace which looks to be due to bushing play. If it's really bad or really bugs the rider, then return it. But under fork operation oil gets in there and fills the gap and it's not noticeable while riding.
> 
> As for the issue about getting full travel:
> 1. let all the air out of the fork
> ...


I cant seem to find this as described. Can you elaborate on this please?

I have just installed my new TRACE RL2 140 (on a 2013 Giant TranceX 29 0) and would like to get the best from it straight away. I am 125kgs geared up. Ive set the rebound to 2 clicks faster than halfway. But with 30 clicks of adjustment, should i be more accurate. ( i have only ever used FOX FLOAT with 15 clicks). The local aussie distro DIYMTB is local to me, so would a custom factory tune, be of any use?


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

ktm520 said:


> Good info two-one! Thanks. I've been going back and forth on whether or not to try an xfusion fork and that answered some of my worries possibilities for revalving the rl2 damper. Not as robust as abs+ but may be a good option at some point since deals on Manitou's are getting harder to find.
> 
> This thing basically has a base valve with a low speed free bleed that is controlled by the small shim stack. What I don't get is why they didn't incorporate a few detents into the adjuster so that it would have some more courser lsc adjustment. The high speed stack will still flow oil even with the damper open even though it's a pretty stiff stack, but like you have found, you can easily tune when it comes into play. If you want better square edge performance, I'd be working with the high speed stack. Did you happen to measure the size/geometry of the piston ports?
> 
> ...


Confirmed. I followed what two-one did, but instead of 2 18x0.15 shims on top of the ring, I put only 1 on top. I never really liked the solid lockout, and never felt the need to firm up the fork except on really long road climbs. This configuration created a soft "trail" mode when the lockout lever is in the closed position. Only slightly firmer than open. I like it!


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

well i finally got out there and tested out two-one's mod that I did on my sweep. Quite a difference, seems to have more traction and small-bump compliance. Amazing how much softening the high-speed shim stack affects small (but square-edged) bump absorption. Also, the fork used to "chatter" under heavy braking in certain conditions, that has lessened. All in all, great modification for someone who doesnt like "firm" suspension. Thanks!


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## bkmad (Nov 16, 2004)

dwyooaj said:


> well i finally got out there and tested out two-one's mod that I did on my sweep. Quite a difference, seems to have more traction and small-bump compliance. Amazing how much softening the high-speed shim stack affects small (but square-edged) bump absorption. Also, the fork used to "chatter" under heavy braking in certain conditions, that has lessened. All in all, great modification for someone who doesnt like "firm" suspension. Thanks!


Is this when set to the open setting or the 'locked' setting?


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## zakkpw (Apr 14, 2010)

Has anyone had any issues with rebound? Bought a 2013 frame with Slant rl2 and 02 rl. Both have super fast rebound, so much that you can hear them returning with a loud klunk. Neither seem to be responding to rebound adjustments either. It was suggested maybe air was in the system and they needed a bleed. Any suggestions?


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## zakkpw (Apr 14, 2010)

Has anyone had any issues with rebound? Bought a 2013 frame with Slant rl2 and 02 rl. Both have super fast rebound, so much that you can hear them returning with a loud klunk. Neither seem to be responding to rebound adjustments either. It was suggested maybe air was in the system and they needed a bleed. Any suggestions?


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

bkmad said:


> Is this when set to the open setting or the 'locked' setting?


Open setting. The locked setting is a bit softer too, blows off easier.


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## cplagz (Jan 28, 2014)

zakkpw said:


> Has anyone had any issues with rebound? Bought a 2013 frame with Slant rl2 and 02 rl. Both have super fast rebound, so much that you can hear them returning with a loud klunk. Neither seem to be responding to rebound adjustments either. It was suggested maybe air was in the system and they needed a bleed. Any suggestions?


Not sure of the solution - but a mates Sweeps have had the same problem and have been sent back to Australian distributor to get fixed.

Mine are off there today after having a seal service done and this has happened 3 times now (after being rebuilt each time) in 3 weeks.... bought some Pikes instead now.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

dwyooaj said:


> Open setting. The locked setting is a bit softer too, blows off easier.


Did you check oil level in the damper?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

zephxiii said:


> Did you check oil level in the damper?


He's not talking about a problem, but reporting the experiences after modding the lockout-blowoff shim stack, turning it into a highspeed regulating shimstack.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Oil level is perfect, since the reshim necessitates a full rebuild!


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

An update on the missing travel / stanchion issue from before. It turned out that the part I had received a while back was a newer 120 spring without adjustment, which is why it seemed too short. I just recieved the correct 140 Velvet air spring assembly. 
I finally have the full amount of stanchion....IF I put 90+ in the fork (which is too much to be useable.)
I found that 65 PSI is the right amount for me....which gives me about 135mm to the bottom out point (after a few rides I managed to use 120 of it). 

What I'm finding is that the negative coil spring pulls the fork down from top-out area unless I put a LOT of air in it, which makes it less than a true 140 at the right pressure. Has anybody else noticed this, or found a way around it? (The zip-tie trick doesn't seem to make a difference with only 65psi in the fork).

I assume this is a trade-off for the small bump compliance (which is nice that it has no stiction at all.)


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## vanderwheelstander (Nov 24, 2014)

zakkpw said:


> Has anyone had any issues with rebound? Bought a 2013 frame with Slant rl2 and 02 rl. Both have super fast rebound, so much that you can hear them returning with a loud klunk. Neither seem to be responding to rebound adjustments either. It was suggested maybe air was in the system and they needed a bleed. Any suggestions?


I have a Slide with the rl2 damper, and I have the opposite problem with rebound, in that it is too slow. I modified the stack of the triangular shims on the rebound piston, putting one of the small round spacers in between the two triangular shims, but it's still a little too slow.














Additionally I found that there are spacers between the shaft of the damping rod and the rebound valve body, and that removing these spacers would allow the finger that the adjustment knob affects to block the orifices it affects earlier, giving more damping.

From the other photos earlier in this thread it looks like the internals differ some between the fork models, but maybe this will give you a starting point.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

vanderwheelstander said:


> I have a Slide with the rl2 damper, and I have the opposite problem with rebound, in that it is too slow. I modified the stack of the triangular shims on the rebound piston, putting one of the small round spacers in between the two triangular shims, but it's still a little too slow.
> View attachment 941373
> View attachment 941374
> 
> ...


Is your fork an OEM or retail model?


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## vanderwheelstander (Nov 24, 2014)

My slide is a retail model. It was delivered in retail packaging, anyway. Purchased from eBay so its provenance can't be established.

I'm planning to tear into it again today to open up the rebound even more, and to do two-one's mod to the high speed compression stack.

zakkpw's problem, I'm re-reading, might be a lack of oil issue, although I'm not sure if he's experiencing it more in the fork or in the rear shock.


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

*Ooops!*

Tinkered too much with the shims on my sweep. I rearranged the shims on the "high speed" stack a few times and used 2.5 wt oil. I liked the super plushness on slow rocky trails, stair steps, etc. as well as the fact that the lockout was now a softer trail mode. However, it tended to dive when braking, and on high speed runs, the fork actually felt better with the "soft" lockout on. Thus, I tried to reconfigure the stack to be more firm. 
When I tested the fork out, it felt ok, but now my lockout lever does nothing. Even when I returned the shims to stock configuration, the lever does not appear to change anything. I even changed back to 5wt Golden Spectro. I'm stumped. While I didnt really use the lockout lever before, the "trail mode" was very useful for me. 
I'll try to open up the fork and damper again and retrace my steps...again. Maybe I misplaced a shim somewhere, or forgot to tighten a bolt?


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

cobym2 said:


> Tinkered too much with the shims on my sweep. I rearranged the shims on the "high speed" stack a few times and used 2.5 wt oil. I liked the super plushness on slow rocky trails, stair steps, etc. as well as the fact that the lockout was now a softer trail mode. However, it tended to dive when braking, and on high speed runs, the fork actually felt better with the "soft" lockout on. Thus, I tried to reconfigure the stack to be more firm.
> When I tested the fork out, it felt ok, but now my lockout lever does nothing. Even when I returned the shims to stock configuration, the lever does not appear to change anything. I even changed back to 5wt Golden Spectro. I'm stumped. While I didnt really use the lockout lever before, the "trail mode" was very useful for me.
> I'll try to open up the fork and damper again and retrace my steps...again. Maybe I misplaced a shim somewhere, or forgot to tighten a bolt?


Your damper is apparently not blocking the oil flow... so first things first.. is there enough oil in your damper to submerge the piston? A lot of people fill an emptied damper, and forget to cycle the rebound piston a couple of times to make sure the space below the reboundpiston is filled with oil as well.
Next, did you maybe reverse the compression piston? Or did you not stack the piston and shims in the correct order? it should be as follows:
Compression Rod
(3) 12x0.15mm shims
(4) 18x0.15mm shims
(1) 18x0.3mm ring shim around the 16x0.15mm shim (this creates preload)
(1) 18x0.2mm shim (this is the faceshim, and should cover 6 out of 9 ports
Piston
(1) 18x0.? shim that covers the 3 other rebound ports
(1) spring that pushes the shim with the narrow side down
bolt.

Let us know what you find out.


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## vanderwheelstander (Nov 24, 2014)

Cobym2, two-one has way more experience on this subject matter so start with his suggestions, but something that happened in my Slide (with remote lockout) is that the compression assembly was threaded to the top cap, and the nut holding my compression assembly to the top cap came loose, causing the whole assembly to rotate when applying the lockout rather than just the valve in the middle.


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

two-one said:


> Your damper is apparently not blocking the oil flow... so first things first.. is there enough oil in your damper to submerge the piston? A lot of people fill an emptied damper, and forget to cycle the rebound piston a couple of times to make sure the space below the reboundpiston is filled with oil as well.
> Next, did you maybe reverse the compression piston? Or did you not stack the piston and shims in the correct order? it should be as follows:
> Compression Rod
> (3) 12x0.15mm shims
> ...





vanderwheelstander said:


> Cobym2, two-one has way more experience on this subject matter so start with his suggestions, but something that happened in my Slide (with remote lockout) is that the compression assembly was threaded to the top cap, and the nut holding my compression assembly to the top cap came loose, causing the whole assembly to rotate when applying the lockout rather than just the valve in the middle.


Two one, vanderwheels:

Thanks for the tips. I did as suggested. Everything was in its proper place. Correct orientation. As I mentioned, i already modded it previously several times and just wanted to firm it up a notch. 
But just now I noticed another problem while stripping it down. The lock out knob wont turn. Its frozen in place in the open position. I cant see why. The only reason I can imagine is that the tube containing the lockout rod has ovalized somehow, preventing the inner rod from turning, but I never clamped that tube at any time. Stumped again.

Update: Just to make matters worse (or simpler), I managed to break the lockout rod at the knob-bolt. I now have a Sweep R, instead of an RL. x#@*G#%!!!!


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## cobym2 (Apr 11, 2005)

Just an update. I swapped the damper body from my "broken" Sweep damper with the one from my Velvet RL2 on my hardtail. Fairly easy procedure: Just use the topcap and piston from the Sweep (larger diameter). Sweep is good to go again. The Velvet, however, had to take one for the team.


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## Fparra (Dec 22, 2010)

*HELP - Broken Air Valve - X Fusion Velvet RL2 DLA*

Hi...

I have a X Fusion Velvet RL2 DLA - very pleased with the fork - the thing is that i broke the air valve in the lower leg... don't ask how!!!

Need to replace... do you know where to find the replacement part???

Best Regards...


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Fparra said:


> Hi...
> 
> I have a X Fusion Velvet RL2 DLA - very pleased with the fork - the thing is that i broke the air valve in the lower leg... don't ask how!!!
> 
> ...


 Call xfusion directly. Santa cruz office. Its on their site.


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## Fparra (Dec 22, 2010)

dwyooaj said:


> Call xfusion directly. Santa cruz office. Its on their site.


I did at the same time that wrote at this forum... they are going to send me the valve with no charge... just paying freight...

They have a great customer service...

Thanks to this guys....

to:	John Valera <[email protected]>
cc:	Joel Smith <[email protected]>


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## Fparra (Dec 22, 2010)

*HELP - Broken Air Valve - X Fusion Velvet RL2 DLA*

Just to let you know what I broke.... and beware in using the wrong air pump.

I broke the Schrader Valve... as seen in the picture.. the black cap is for the valve I broke...

I don´t have space to set the pump to the valve..


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Deleted...shims gone.


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## Carrera911xc (Jul 25, 2006)

Hey guys, I need some help here. I've recently developed quite a bit of play in my front end to the point where it feels like a loose headset. I tightened the headset and it's still there. When I apply the front brake and rock the front back and forth there is quite a bit of play. Has anyone experienced significant bushing play with their RL2s? Mine's a Sweep. Thanks


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## Fparra (Dec 22, 2010)

Carrera911xc said:


> Hey guys, I need some help here. I've recently developed quite a bit of play in my front end to the point where it feels like a loose headset. I tightened the headset and it's still there. When I apply the front brake and rock the front back and forth there is quite a bit of play. Has anyone experienced significant bushing play with their RL2s? Mine's a Sweep. Thanks


Take a look into the the brake bolts also... and then into the rotor bolts... and then into the hub... same happen to me in the rear and at the end was the hub...

good luck...


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## govertime (Apr 4, 2007)

If anybody is looking to part out a Velvet lower with 15mm thru axle (Syntace), please PM me. I'm looking to convert my QR Velvet.

I imagine there are some forks laying around with broken dampers/air rod assemblies collecting dust...


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## neilether (Sep 10, 2007)

Carrera911xc said:


> Hey guys, I need some help here. I've recently developed quite a bit of play in my front end to the point where it feels like a loose headset. I tightened the headset and it's still there. When I apply the front brake and rock the front back and forth there is quite a bit of play. Has anyone experienced significant bushing play with their RL2s? Mine's a Sweep. Thanks


I have this same issue on a Marzocchi. I checked headset, brakes, hub etc. It is definitely play between the uppers and lowers. Apparently it's bushing wear internally, but it can't be rebuilt according to the Marzocchi tech dept. Which sucks.

Hopefully the X-fusion can be rebuilt rather than having to buy new lowers.


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## Fparra (Dec 22, 2010)

Thanks to the guys at xfusion cal... they sent to me via usps the air valve... in my LBS mexico city (BikeSpeed) they install the new one.

All is fine and ready to go...


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## Nick_M (Jan 16, 2015)

Does anyone knows where I can find upgrade dampers for: 
OEM forks: Sweep
OEM Shock: O2R 

Probably some online store?

Except official site, cause they do upgrade only for US only

Thank you in advance


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

zephxiii said:


> Check it out: Instagram
> 
> Only 5 dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That link is dead but here are some pictures of mine in case anyone is interested. It is the RL2 Damper Tool for consumer use.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

Alright...time for me to do my first lowers service on my Slant, and I just re-read the entire thread. I have the X-fusion tool, so that shall make things a bit easier. New seals come in the mail today. 

I am tempted to tinker with shims a bit, but am a complete novice at this side of things. A few opinions would be welcome here. 

WHAT I WANT TO ACHIEVE: I want some more small bump compliance. I don't know if I am just paying more attention to it, or if things have actually worsened with time, but I want it to be a bit more plush with just routine small roots/rocks while at normal speed. Everything is great with bigger hits, and I have no full travel issues. I just want A BIT more plushness without over doing it. 

What would you guys do to achieve this? Mess with oil weights (2.5wt)? Mess with shims (place a small shim between the 10mm and the 8mm)? Both?


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## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

I noticed "some" more small bump compliance with lighter oil in the dampening cartridge.
Probably what your after.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

kneecap said:


> I noticed "some" more small bump compliance with lighter oil in the dampening cartridge.
> Probably what your after.


Alright. Just had a weekend of tinkering and wanted to report in.

I am by no means a suspension expert, but I feel some significant improvements in small bump compliance after doing the following:

1) Lowers service. The air side had lost almost all of the 15ml of lowers oil missing. This could contribute to loss of small bump compliance. New seals installed and new lowers oil installed (7wt 15ml each side). I also dumped 5ml on top of the air spring.

2) Placed small shim between 10mm shim and 8mm shim. New damper oil installed (only had 5wt light, 70ml).

Immediate improvement in small bump compliance. Fork felt better than day 1.

Overall, super pleased. Not a super hard service.


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## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

what's the shim rearrangement aimed at? Maybe more mid range support, or?


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

kneecap said:


> what's the shim rearrangement aimed at? Maybe more mid range support, or?


Better small bump compliance


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

I serviced my Slant for the first time yesterday. It was easy and went well for most of the process. My only problem is that I have not been able to unscrew the midvalve cup for the life of me. I have tried the rubber glove tip and pliers. I stopped before damaging the cup. Can anyone share tips on how they did it? I really want to tune the midvalve to reduce the low speed compression thru the shims stack.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Nightnerd, when I first did it I used pliers, maybe i scuffed up the outside of teh cup with the plier teeth but that kind of damage i dont think interferes with the function in any way. (Caveat, your results may vary so im only saying waht worked for me, not definitely saying it will work for you...i guess if you squeeze too hard you could deform teh cup?) You could try vicegrips...locked just tight enough to grip the cup without deforming it.


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

*not getting full travel*

I have an xfusion slant set to 150mm.
If I let all the air out I can compress the fork easily until it bottoms with about 10mm of stanchion visible.
But no matter what I do I cannot use the last 20 or 25mm of actual travel while riding.
If I put in a ridiculously low amount of air I could use it but the bike would be unrideable.

Any ideas?


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## bigdook (Aug 14, 2008)

ac1000 said:


> I have an xfusion slant set to 150mm.
> If I let all the air out I can compress the fork easily until it bottoms with about 10mm of stanchion visible.
> But no matter what I do I cannot use the last 20 or 25mm of actual travel while riding.
> If I put in a ridiculously low amount of air I could use it but the bike would be unrideable.
> ...


Maybe try pumping them up to the required pressure and then insert the pointy end of a very small cable tie under the air seal of each leg to remove any built up pressure in the lowers.

The only other thing I can think of is to check your air spring and see if there is excess oil in there limiting travel. But if this was the case, it would still limit travel with no air in the forks.


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

bigdook said:


> Maybe try pumping them up to the required pressure and then insert the pointy end of a very small cable tie under the air seal of each leg to remove any built up pressure in the lowers.
> 
> The only other thing I can think of is to check your air spring and see if there is excess oil in there limiting travel. But if this was the case, it would still limit travel with no air in the forks.


Yeah I've checked both of those areas. No excess oil on top of the air spring. I've tried the zip tie and let all pressure out through the bottom nuts with the fork fully compressed.
that didn't change anythimg .


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

Thanks Dwyooaj, I'll go a bit firmer with the pliers and see if I can get the damn thing to budge. If anyone else had success unscrewing the mildvalve cup using another method, please share!


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## Dr KennethNoisewater (Oct 4, 2014)

Anyone ever had an issue removing the air spring base plate? Pulled my sweep apart to adjust the travel, but cannot get the plate to budge. Had a local shop give it a try as well but nothing. A bit worried at this point.


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

Dr KennethNoisewater said:


> Anyone ever had an issue removing the air spring base plate? Pulled my sweep apart to adjust the travel, but cannot get the plate to budge. Had a local shop give it a try as well but nothing. A bit worried at this point.


Base plate meaning getting the actual air-spring assembly to come out the cottom, ot getting the baseplate for travel adjust to move?
Pictures...


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## Dr KennethNoisewater (Oct 4, 2014)

This fella:


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

Dr KennethNoisewater said:


> Anyone ever had an issue removing the air spring base plate? Pulled my sweep apart to adjust the travel, but cannot get the plate to budge. Had a local shop give it a try as well but nothing. A bit worried at this point.


I had the same issue and was about to pull my hair our until I tried some penetrating oil. I let it soak in for a while and then it popped open.
Also the red park pin spanner I had didn't seem to fit well.
But the green park spanner fit perfectly in the smaller sets of holes.


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## Dr KennethNoisewater (Oct 4, 2014)

ac1000 said:


> I had the same issue and was about to pull my hair our until I tried some penetrating oil. I let it soak in for a while and then it popped open.


Good to hear. I was a bit worried about using any for fear of eating seals. How exactly did you apply it?

Thanks for the quick reply!


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

I just sprayed it at the juncture of the stanchions and the cap and then wiped up the excess.
I doubted that it would work but it made all the difference for me.


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

dwyooaj said:


> Nightnerd, when I first did it I used pliers, maybe i scuffed up the outside of teh cup with the plier teeth but that kind of damage i dont think interferes with the function in any way. (Caveat, your results may vary so im only saying waht worked for me, not definitely saying it will work for you...i guess if you squeeze too hard you could deform teh cup?) You could try vicegrips...locked just tight enough to grip the cup without deforming it.


Hey, just wanted to thank you again for the tip and the amazing "how to" and tuning thread. I managed to unscrew the midvalve cup using pliers. It ended up being super easy and there was no damage done.

I was lucky enough to buy a set of your shims from another member so I installed one instead of the current midvalve face shim. I also moved a smaller shim right under that new face shim.

For the lock out stack , I followed two-one's tune excepted that I went for this stack :

18x0.2
18x0.15 (3)
18x0.3 + 16x0.15 (ring and centering shim)
18x0.15 (1)
12x0.15 (4)

No real trail testing yet but there is still quite a firm platform that is a lot more active than the lock-out.

Can someone tell me if rearranging the lock-out stack in such way has an impact on the overall compression damping or if it only affect the lock theshold?


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

I see at least one person broke the top of the lock out shaft off (I assume while tightening/loosening it but he replaced his with one he scavenged from an old Vengence. 

Mine also broke off. The blue lock out cap/knob blew off while riding. After spending an hour or two reading through this thread I suspect this may have happened as a result of too much trapped air in the damper side combined with a hard bottom out. 

Is this possible?

Can I just buy the lock out cartridge / damper from Xfusion and replace it myself?


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

So I just talked to X Fusion service and they said it would be "impossible" for the built up air in the damper side to blow off the lock out cap unless the top of the damper rod was damaged or cracked from a hard blow to the cap. This makes sense as I did crash hard further up the hill (also sprained my knee) while hitting a log (don't ask).

Anyway they're sending me out a new upper half of the damper cartridge for $35.00. Sounds like it shouldn't be too tricky to replace with the great help/info in this thread.

I'll be back with questions when it comes if I have trouble.

Great resource.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

I broke the top of the upper shaft off (black fork cap and lock out circuit) and X fusion sent me a new one, but I can't seem to remove the upper shaft from the base valve. 
I hold the oil tube/shaft with the 19mm cone wrench on the wrench flats then turn the upper shaft with a pair of channel locks but the shaft just spins... doesn't unthread.

Do I have to remove the base valve from the oil tube shaft first, then unscrew the base valve and mid-valve cup off from the upper /lock out shaft?

I thought I read where someone had replaced this in the tuning thread but now I can't find it.

Here's a link to the photo of the damper and the new part.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

So does no one know the answer to this or have I just worded it awkwardly so no one knows what the heck I'm talking about?
I'm resisting calling X-Fusion because the tech I talked to was a little condescending and treated me like I didn't know anything.... which apparently was partly true. :0) Hate to go back and admit it.... but if no one has removed/replaced this part before, I guess I'll have to call them.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

I think you have to unscrew the shaft from the base valve, unscrew the "mid-valve" cup, and use a very flat 12? mm wrench on the wrench flats underneath to unscrew the base valve then it all comes apart-watch out for a spring, and the high-speed shim stack! Look at Two-One's pic on page 7, everythings apart and the top piece is apart from the rest and looks exactly like the part xfusion sent you.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

dwyooaj said:


> I think you have to unscrew the shaft from the base valve, unscrew the "mid-valve" cup, and use a very flat 12? mm wrench on the wrench flats underneath to unscrew the base valve then it all comes apart-watch out for a spring, and the high-speed shim stack! Look at Two-One's pic on page 7, everythings apart and the top piece is apart from the rest and looks exactly like the part xfusion sent you.


Cool, thanks. I was starting to suspect that that was the case. However, reviewing your steps for disassembling the lower shaft from the base valve, I see you hold the upper shaft by using the 28mm socket on the top cap. That's the part that's broken off on mine. If I just grip the upper shaft with pliers it just spins without unthreading. Options?


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

The circle of metal with the o-ring, just above the oil tube: Grip with pliers and a sheet of rubber very very carefully with the plier teeth on the flat top/bottom so you dont damage the o-ring or the o-ring groove. Then , unscrew oil tube. You might even be able to unscrew the oil tube by holding that plate in your hand tightly with a rubber glove.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

While youre at it, you can try two-ones mod to the high speed shimstack!


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Why not use shaft clamps and a vise?


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Deerhill said:


> Why not use shaft clamps and a vise?


We're not real mechanics so don't have all those fancy tools. 

The thick rubber glove gripping the mid-valve assembly while turning the 19mm wrench flats on the oil shaft did the trick (I removed the rubber O-ring while doing this so as not to damage it).

I did do two-one's high speed/lock out shim stack mod while I was in there (but I moved two shims down for a softer "trail mode" hopefully) and dwyooaj's low speed mod as well. Waiting on the 28mm flat wrench from A-tech Fab so I can remove the broken top cap from the damper side and then install the new modified damper assembly.

I'll report back when I've got it reassembled and have a little ride time on it.

Thanks again for all the help everyone. (Glad I saved the Float 32 that came with my 5010 so I haven't been out of commission this week).


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

First I'd like to say thanks to all the heroes who've contributed to this awesome thread and forum. Due to the stuck down problems and lack of serviceably with the DLA airspring I'm sending my slant back to X fusion to swap in a regular airspring. My question is: should I pay the extra $90 to have them rebuild the dampener? Or do I attempt to do it myself and do the shim stack mods at the same time? I'm mechanically inclined, I have misc automotive tools and reading through the thread the job doesn't seem too bad. Stated another way: is the mod worth purchasing the necessary bike tools tearing apart the fork?

Also, does anyone know if Xfusion does anything special during the rebuild we can't do at home? Like refill a secret "butter" port for an extra smooth ride...


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> First I'd like to say thanks to all the heroes who've contributed to this awesome thread and forum. Due to the stuck down problems and lack of serviceably with the DLA airspring I'm sending my slant back to X fusion to swap in a regular airspring. My question is: should I pay the extra $90 to have them rebuild the dampener? Or do I attempt to do it myself and do the shim stack mods at the same time? I'm mechanically inclined, I have misc automotive tools and reading through the thread the job doesn't seem too bad. Stated another way: is the mod worth purchasing the necessary bike tools tearing apart the fork?
> 
> Also, does anyone know if Xfusion does anything special during the rebuild we can't do at home? Like refill a secret "butter" port for an extra smooth ride...


Pay the $90, then take it apart and tell us what they do!!!!!!!! I don't think anyone officially knows what they do, so your contribution could be the answer!


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## Vulcanius (Nov 4, 2011)

KRob said:


> The thick rubber glove gripping the mid-valve assembly while turning the 19mm wrench flats on the oil shaft did the trick (I removed the rubber O-ring while doing this so as not to damage it).


I must have some dainty little hands, or X-Fusion used super glue / lock-tite on mine, but for the life of me I can't get the damned mid-valve cap off. I'm probably going to have to shell out for a set of rubber/silicon vice jaws like these...

Bessey Vice Jaws

Speaking of, actually, is anyone using a particular thin 12mm wrench for this?


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

So RL2 damper just failed on my Slant....catastrophically. 

I was doing some of the bigger jumps at a local trail, and overshot a lander bottoming front and rear HARD. A loud "ping/explosion" sound and my fork was immediately a pogo-stick. I look down and my blue lockout top cap was nowhere to be seen, and there was a hole centrally with fork oil spewing out of it. The damper just exploded. 

Luckily the projectile of a top cap didn't hit me (I couldn't find it but it could have shot into outer space for all I know), but this weekend I am going to take things apart and hope that only the top section of the damper exploded.

Weird thing is I have bottomed out several times before...not this hard but hard enough to hear the stanchions hitting the bottom out bumper and making a noise. No explosions then. So I don't think an overfilled damper was the issue. No idea but I talked to X-fusion and I'm going to send them some pictures and videos this weekend.

Luckily my buddy was filming our jump session and he caught the incident on camera. I am in the background so things are far away, but you can hear the sound of destruction from a mile away. 

I will upload everything here when he gets it to me and I get some pictures of the fork disassembled.

Lost a bit of faith in this fork today...no doubt. Too bad I don't have $800 to drop on a Pike or MRP Stage.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

Original version (I am in the back): 




Slow motion zoomed in blurry version: 




That sound still makes me cringe.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

Here is my damper. Not looking good.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

Just an update: X-fusion is shipping me out an upper damper for $20. Should get me back up and running. Excellent customer service. Not sure why this happened in the first place, but possibly I overfilled with oil when servicing last?


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

y0bailey said:


> Here is my damper. Not looking good.
> 
> View attachment 995476
> 
> ...


Yep, that's exactly what mine did. Looked just like that. I was able to replace just the top of the damper for $35. Went in and reshuffled some shims according to recommendations on this thread to gain some small bump sensitivity and turn the lock out into a "trail" mode while I was in there. I was waiting for a 28mm flat wrench and thin 12mm cone wrench to tighten everything up before final reassembly.

I'd be interested to know if you had been losing travel over the past few rides or not getting full travel before this happened. I had noticed this on mine and according to some previous threads the loss of travel/lack of full travel was air built up inside the damper so I thought that might have been the cause of the cap blowing off but the tech at X-Fusion said that was impossible unless the top of the damper rod had been cracked from a blow to the top cap in a crash.
(I had just crashed into a log 1/2 mile up the hill before this happened so that explanation seemed plausible).


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

KRob,

Where did you get the 12mm cone wrench? I am having trouble locating it. 

Also, WHERE are you going to place it to tighten things up? I don't see the area you would place it? Could you throw a little arrow on one of the above pictures to show me where? 

I had no travel loss prior to my damper exploding. I did bottom out about as hard as physically possible so that may explain it. Still not 100% why this happened, but it wasn't pleasant. It isn't impossible that I slightly overfilled the damper, but I did measure out 70cc pretty closely. Maybe I didn't have it fully emptied prior to rebuild?


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

y0bailey said:


> KRob,
> 
> Where did you get the 12mm cone wrench? I am having trouble locating it.
> 
> ...


I didn't end up needing the 12 mm thin wrench to disassemble the upper shaft from the mid-valve. After removing the oil shaft from the mid valve with a 19mm wrench on the wrench flats of the oil shaft and gripping the large diameter high speed valve with a thick rubber glove (after removing the O-ring), I used channel lock pliers with the teeth padded with an old inner tube on the low speed cup shown in this photo. Again, twisting with the rubber glove on the big high speed valve, the two parts unthreaded.








Disclaimer: When it does come apart watch for the spring and all the small shims and review two-one's pictorial on page 7 as to how to put them back together in the stock sequence or modified to reduce the blow off on the lock out.

If you can hold the thin 12 mm bolt just above this low speed cup shown in the picture with a cone wrench, then the bolt that holds the high speed stack to the upper shaft will unscrew without having to grip the low speed cup with pliers.









When I did it the bolt came out of the upper shaft with the low speed cup still attached. Once that was out I was able to get a regular 12mm end wrench on that thin bolt and I held the low speed cup the the channel locks and removed the cup from the bolt. Then I could access the low speed shim stack as shown on page 1.

Clear as mud?


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## vko (May 16, 2013)

I have a Trace with damaged the threads of the drive side (see picture). Does anyone knows how to dissemble the shown part and replace it? Is there any oil involved in that chamber?
I have the spare part but I'm trying to find some guideline before I start open staff
Thank you


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

Alright everyone, I have info first-hand from the excellent folks at X-fusion to clarify some of the information out there.

Of course doing any of these things voids your warranty, so don't get mad at them if you mess something up. They treated me very well when I could have potentially been the culprit of causing my fork to have an issue. X-fusion wins my $ for a long time.

Confirmed volumes of oil for the SLANT: *RSF light is the correct fluid and 70cc is about right. You just want to make sure the c-clip is just submerged when the damper has had all the air cycled out.*

Confirmed on the "firm tune" removing the lockout function to a firm/open setting: *If you want a firm tune it should look like this: Shaft, 18 x .20, (2x)18 x .15, (3x)12 x .20, 18 x .15, ring and 16 x 1.5, 18 x .15, piston, check shim, spring, mid valve bolt assembly.*


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Thanks y0bailey. I think I put about 70 ml in mine (some overflowed when I was cycling the damper) and the c-clip looked like it was submerged after I added a bit more (maybe 25ml).

Got everything back together and the fork mounted. Quick spin around the drive way and it does feel plush on initial stroke. I had to raise the air pressure to 70-72 lbs to keep it from diving and bottoming easily but that didn't seem to hurt the small bump sensitivity. I was running closer to 60 psi before the rebuild.

A couple issues so far. Either I didn't get enough oil in to cover the lock out port or my mod basically created an "open/open" switch because I can't feel any difference between open and locked out now. I did move the ring and 16x1.5 spacer shim up three spots on the stack instead of two as you and two-one suggested so maybe that was too much. I'll ride it out on the trails and see if I can tell a difference.

Also, my foot nut on the bottom of the damper side is weeping oil now. Did I miss an o-ring our squish washer on reassembly? All I saw was the small o-ring on the bottom of the damper rod which should seal from the inside, but there wasn't anything between the fork lowers and the base nut.


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## brianb (Apr 25, 2004)

This is a great thread. 
Before I read it…. I took my Slide RL apart last night because I wasn't getting full travel (set to 120 but only traveling about half that even with zero air. No weird sounds or anything, just a firm stop.
I’m still not sure why this was happening as everything looked fine on the air side, but in the process of doing this the damper footnut is finally toast (it was barely hanging on). 
Anyway, I wanted to take the threads of the damper shaft to the store to match up a replacement nut. In my haste I simply disassembled the damper assembly by removing the baseplate. Oil gushed out and the bottom portion of the damper easily came out.
Now, in looking a pics/instructions in this thread, this doesn’t seem right. Shouldn’t the damper assembly be one piece until you unscrew it? Maybe this is why it wasn’t getting full travel?


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## gladiolus21vek (Jul 1, 2015)

*Damper shaft part*

Hello!

Excuse me for my bad English.
I'm ride Commencal Meta HT AM 2 (2014) with fork X-Fusion Velvet RL2.
After change oil i broken damper shaft.
Where i can buy this part or how i can fix it?


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

gladiolus21vek said:


> Hello!
> 
> Excuse me for my bad English.
> I'm ride Commencal Meta HT AM 2 (2014) with fork X-Fusion Velvet RL2.
> ...


You should be able to get a replacement from whichever factory service center is closest to you that is listed here.
X Fusion Shox - Distributors & Service Centers


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## gladiolus21vek (Jul 1, 2015)

huckleberry hound said:


> You should be able to get a replacement from whichever factory service center is closest to you that is listed here.
> X Fusion Shox - Distributors & Service Centers


Thank you!
How many it can cost? Is it a guarantee case?
Should I change the damper entirely or only a shaft?


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

AHHH My trusty thread on X Fusion. Looking for some advice. I've been on this thread before. So I have a trace 29er and been on it for quite some time. I recently bottomed the fork out pretty harshly. Heard a good bang and when it rebounded (in mid air) I felt kind of a clunk (almost like a pause) before it fully extended. Ever since then, I've been playing around with it and the fork seems divey and twitchy. There's no loss of air or an see any oil. The lock out and rebound works. Do you guys think my damper is blown?


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Quick update: I sent my slant dal into the factory to have it switched to a regular air spring, xfusion gave me the parts, but I had to pay labor. However, I paid for a full rebuild so labor to switch the spring was incl with the service. I also went for the factory tune for $50. I am very happy with the way the fork feels, its more plush on the small stuff, yet seems to ride higher up in the travel. That being said the factory tune is in no way a custom tune as the rep seemed uninterested in how I wanted the fork to perform differently, my riding style or even my size. I must say xfusion has great customer service, but I was a little disappointed in lack of detail here. I'll be sure to hop back on here to post pics and a description of what the "factory tune" really is when I open it up in a couple months. Cheers.


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## gigabike (Jun 8, 2012)

Question, I took apart a 2015 X Fusion Trace 29er fork in order to adjust the travel from 100 to 140. Had quite a time getting the damper pulled through without the proprietary tool, but finally got it. This took a few tries and hours of aggravation of taking lowers on and off trying to figure it out, therefore re-filling oil each time. Anyway, all back together, seems good to go, EXCEPT, now the lockout isn't working. :-( Any ideas what I could have done to cause that?


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## gibsonlespaulspecial (Dec 27, 2012)

Hi, I just did a travel adjust on my Sweep RL2. After getting it all back together it seems like the damper isn't working properly. First, I noticed that after the fork compresses it rebounds abruptly and there is an audible "knocking" type sound. Second, the lockout has no effect. I used the $5 tool from X-Fusion to unseat and reseat the damper. Seams like when reseating it you really need to crank it hard to pull the damper into the lowers. I'm worried the threads will strip or some other damage is going to happen. Is this normal? Am I completely off base on how to reseat the damper? Thanks!


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

gibsonlespaulspecial said:


> Hi, I just did a travel adjust on my Sweep RL2. After getting it all back together it seems like the damper isn't working properly. First, I noticed that after the fork compresses it rebounds abruptly and there is an audible "knocking" type sound. Second, the lockout has no effect. I used the $5 tool from X-Fusion to unseat and reseat the damper. Seams like when reseating it you really need to crank it hard to pull the damper into the lowers. I'm worried the threads will strip or some other damage is going to happen. Is this normal? Am I completely off base on how to reseat the damper? Thanks!


Did you take the damper apart of just remove the nut from the bottom to slip the lowers off? If all you did was remove the nut the damper would be untouched and should work exactly as it did before.
Did you burp the lowers?
-Remove air from fork.
-Compress all the way.
-While compressed slide a greased ziptie down between the stanchion and wiper. You'll hear a little hiss. This is air making it's way into the negative chamber. Do this for both sides.
-Inflate air spring and test again.

You shouldn't have to work too hard to get the damper seated into the lower again. It will provide some resistance as it moves through the hole in the lower, I think there is a rubber bottom out bumper it has to go through which causes the resistance.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Umm., that hiss isnt air going into a negative chamber. Its trapped air escaping from the lowers, which can make the fork feel firm if not bled out in the manner described. Xfusion addressed this in newer/expensive forks like the metric with a equalizing valve.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Does anyone know the correct damper oil volume for a Velvet or probably any other 32mm RL2 fork?

I put 70ml in and it locked out at about 50% travel so I've just kinda winged it by getting as much in there as I can while still being able to fully compress the damper rod. The lockout and rebound dials work so I guess it's ok. If noone knows I'll measure it next time I change and post here.

I replaced the OEM damper fluid (14.5 cSt @ 40 degrees) with Rock Oil 2.5wt (~10 cSt @ 40 degrees) because I didn't want to pull anything apart. No chance to ride yet.


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

dwyooaj said:


> Umm., that hiss isnt air going into a negative chamber. Its trapped air escaping from the lowers, which can make the fork feel firm if not bled out in the manner described. Xfusion addressed this in newer/expensive forks like the metric with a equalizing valve.


That's right, thanks for catching that.


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## gibsonlespaulspecial (Dec 27, 2012)

OK well after a do-over everything seems to work ok. Not sure what I did differently, but after I was done I messed with the rebound adjustment to see if that had any effect, and that did seem to work, then after a couple minutes the lockout worked also.

Not sure what the difference was the second time around, but at least I know the proper way to unseat/reseat the damper. You simply need to thread the removal tool on a few turns short of fully tight so that there is a gap between the tool and the lowers. Whack the tool to unseat it, loosen the tool a bit, whack it again, repeat until the tool is completely unthreaded and the dampler fully unseated. To reseat it, just screw the tool until the damper is pulled all the way into the lowers and the tool is threaded fully tight. Seems obvious now but this is my first time taking apart a fork so pretty clueless going in and just followed the video on x fusion's website.

Thanks to all contributing to this thread!


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## gibsonlespaulspecial (Dec 27, 2012)

What do I need to do to minimze stiction? I put a fairly generous coat of grease on the main air seal and the lowers seals. My sweep seems a lot stickier than my rear shock (RP23 kashima).


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

gibsonlespaulspecial said:


> What do I need to do to minimze stiction? I put a fairly generous coat of grease on the main air seal and the lowers seals. My sweep seems a lot stickier than my rear shock (RP23 kashima).


What I've been doing is regular applications of finish line stanchion lube. I maybe use it as often as I lube my chain and its back to feeling great.
I don't know why my slant needs this product while other forks don't but I'm ok with the solution.


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

I ordered some enduro seals and might finally try ripping into the damper. 

Has anyone done a mid-valve mod for the Velvet RL2 (as opposed to the larger models shown in this thread's pictures)? Just hoping to have a game-plan. My goal is to make the fork a little more supple on small bumps without causing major brake dive. I can only assume removing the mid-valve all together would cause nasty brake dive, unless anybody chimes in. 
Otherwise I guess it's a matter of removing 1 or 2 shims from the stack (and not replacing them with anything else?)

sorry for the Q's, but most of the replies I see are not geared so much toward the Velvet. 

I did have X-fusion convert the lockout to a FIRM mode while they had it. 
Should this more or less be what Two-One showed in his high-speed mod? - From what I gather, this 'trail' mode would be a firm mode? I am assuming this would not have involved modifying the open mode to be any softer.

Would this non-lockout mod likely change the low speed shim stack mod that dwyooaj first showed to open up the mid-valve? I am gathering that they would act independently. 

I probably should do this mod anyway, as it has a little clunk in it every time the fork compresses to the half way point (it has done this ever since the first time I got it back from the factory service). It does this even at slow speed while standing over the bike and pushing down. One thought is the damper pieces aren't connected tightly. 

. My thought on this is, if I can made the initial stroke on this fork softer, I can run the pressure up closer to what the chart calls for. As is, I'm running it at 65, altho that's not too low for someone 30 lbs lighter than me, it still causes the negative spring to suck some of the fork down.

----------------
*Edit* Removing unproductive rant to keep things constructive.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

PhillipJ said:


> I replaced the OEM damper fluid (14.5 cSt @ 40 degrees) with Rock Oil 2.5wt (~10 cSt @ 40 degrees) because I didn't want to pull anything apart. No chance to ride yet.


Can't tell much difference between the OEM and lighter damper fluid. Any reduced low-speed damping could easily be because I also changed the splash oil and greased everything.

Probably going to try the high-speed stack mod next.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

ztbishop said:


> I did have X-fusion convert the lockout to a FIRM mode while they had it.
> Should this more or less be what Two-One showed in his high-speed mod? - From what I gather, this 'trail' mode would be a firm mode? I am assuming this would not have involved modifying the open mode to be any softer.


I don't *think* that's correct. Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I think the blue lockout dial/lever on top of the damper opens and closes the low-speed compression ports.

The high speed compression circuit is kept closed by the shim stack until there's enough force which is either "blowing off" the lockout (low speed closed) or transitioning from low speed circuit to high speed circuit (low speed port flowing as much as it can).

So I would expect that making the lockout firm rather than the out-of-the-box very hard would also soften high speed compression overall.

If I'm wrong I'd love a correction before I go rearranging the high speed stack on my Velvet.


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## fantozzi (Mar 2, 2012)

Has anybody tried a different oil than the recommended 7.5 WT and other dust wipers?


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

fantozzi said:


> Has anybody tried a different oil than the recommended 7.5 WT and other dust wipers?


For the lowers?

I'm running Mobil 1 5w-30 on stock seals. Runs better if you ask me.


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## fantozzi (Mar 2, 2012)

Thanks...yes for the lowers.


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## Arebee (Sep 13, 2012)

I have 3 rides on my new 2014 Slide and I'm still dialing it in. Such an upgrade from my RS coil fork but my lock-out adjustment moves a little too easily. Half-way through a rooty, rocky New England ride, my teeth are rattling because I'm 3/4 of the way locked-out. I tried the allen screw on the top and it's perfectly tight. X-Fusion CS suggested I send it in for inspection/repair. Any thoughts on this?


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

I would send it in. Mine has no issues with the lockout. Get it fixed while it is under warranty.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

RL2 damper has no part way, it's just like the RL dampers on Fox, it's either on or off, so I'd send it in to them. Have several of their forks with the RL2 damper and can honestly say I've never experienced this, looking forward to when I have the cash to upgrade to the Trace with the new Rough Cut damper.



Arebee said:


> I have 3 rides on my new 2014 Slide and I'm still dialing it in. Such an upgrade from my RS coil fork but my lock-out adjustment moves a little too easily. Half-way through a rooty, rocky New England ride, my teeth are rattling because I'm 3/4 of the way locked-out. I tried the allen screw on the top and it's perfectly tight. X-Fusion CS suggested I send it in for inspection/repair. Any thoughts on this?


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## Arebee (Sep 13, 2012)

Yeah, my RockShox took some effort to flip the lockout switch. The Slide switch flips on and off easier than you could flip a light switch. I'm going to send it in.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Quick question; do you guys think heavier riders would benefit more or benefit less from rearranging the shim stack? I've been looking into modifications since before I even bought the fork, but I wonder if my heavier weight might lessen the benefits of modifying the damper. I only have one day of riding on the new fork so far, so its a long way off from being broken in yet. Running a sweep RL2 on my hardtail at 130mm, 115 psi, and 230 riding weight.


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## gibsonlespaulspecial (Dec 27, 2012)

Hello! So I've adjusted the travel and serviced the lowers a couple times, but sometimes when I get it all back together, the damper is completely missing from the picture. No compression/rebound, lockout, nothing. Any ideas? Thanks!


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## Arebee (Sep 13, 2012)

Arebee said:


> I have 3 rides on my new 2014 Slide and I'm still dialing it in. Such an upgrade from my RS coil fork but my lock-out adjustment moves a little too easily. Half-way through a rooty, rocky New England ride, my teeth are rattling because I'm 3/4 of the way locked-out. I tried the allen screw on the top and it's perfectly tight. X-Fusion CS suggested I send it in for inspection/repair. Any thoughts on this?


Well, I had a weekend MTB trip planned so I held off on sending my fork in for maintenance. I rode for three days on some Hellish, rocky, rooty terrain in Southeastern Mass, and not once did the lock-out adjustment move. So I'm thinking that I may have hit the adjustment somehow to make it move previously.


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## gibsonlespaulspecial (Dec 27, 2012)

Just took care of some excessive stiction by greasing up the rubber piece that the air rod travels through at the base plate. Seems like a lot of attention needs to be paid to the whole air rod assembly to get all the moving parts lubed just right.

X-fusion is now recommending their own brand "pure slick fluid" for the oil bath. I also see in their torque charts they recommend 10ml in the air chamber. Does anyone know what this stuff is? I got a small bottle of it from X-fusion but if it's just some rebranded oil I'd like to get a bigger bottle somewhere.


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## borabora (Feb 16, 2011)

Early in this thread a RL2 uppers service video was mentioned. Does that actually exist or was it a mistake and referred to the lowers video (which I have viewed)? The video is not on the x-fusion website nor does it appear on a google search.

I know that within this thread I can piece things together to get the fork apart and back together but if a video existed I'd sure want to view it. Gracias!


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I just opened the air chamber on my sweep last night, and there was about 5ml in there from the factory. I added another 8ml or so, to bump up the pressure sooner (230 lbs riding weight, 100 psi, 130mm). There was plenty of room with the fork fully compressed, so I'm not worried about hydrolocking the fork travel.

Anyway, the difference between 5 and 10 ml makes a noticeable difference. I wonder which is the correct value for most forks as they leave the factory?


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

GuitsBoy said:


> Anyway, the difference between 5 and 10 ml makes a noticeable difference. I wonder which is the correct value for most forks as they leave the factory?


How would you describe the difference?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

ac1000 said:


> How would you describe the difference?


More progressive. If you use most of your travel, but dont want to (or cant, in my case) run a higher psi, you can make the air spring more progressive by adding oil. To me, the fork felt softer than I was used to from the factory, and I cant run any more than 100 psi or else I overpower then negative spring.

A rough eyeball estimate with the fork at full compression looks like 5 cc reduces the air chamber by about 10% or 15%. That means 15% higher spring rate at bottom out, and roughly 7.5% higher spring rate at 50% travel, while almost no increase at the top.

Again, that's just a rough estimate.


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

What oil are people using for the lowers that is working well?


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

ac1000 said:


> What oil are people using for the lowers that is working well?


Mobile1 synthetic. 5w20


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## lazarus2405 (Jul 16, 2011)

Last time I dropped my lowers, I used Fox 20wt Gold (the new sticky stuff). I'm liking it, haven gotten longer service before feeling stiction return than generic (Finish Line?) 15wt. No problem with seal/wiper compatibility after 4 months.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Maxima 15wt in my Velvet. Had been using Fox Green (10wt I think) previously.


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## borabora (Feb 16, 2011)

ac1000 said:


> What oil are people using for the lowers that is working well?


There's a list of fluid quantities and types for each fork in a torque spec document that is located on the Xfusion support section of their webpage. They recommend their own "Pure Slick Fluid" for the lowers. Since the service video also located on their webpage specifies 7.5 wt shock oil I contacted them and asked them which one I should use. The PDF is up to date -- use Pure Slick.

My fork feels a lot better since I serviced it and used Pure Slick but who knows if it's due to that stuff or because of the service and oil change. In any case I am happy with the outcome.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

I just noticed I was missing about 15mm of travel on my 140mm Velvet. I changed the damper fluid a few weeks ago and I know I was getting full travel after that.

I cracked the top cap and air hissed out (no fluid) and now I'm getting full travel again. Anyone else had this happen?


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## outtacontrol (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi awesome thread. I had the loss of travel issue recently with my sweeps and had them eventually repaired under warranty, after initially being told I had overfilled the damper, except it had never been apart. They were pretty coy about what caused the issue but did a Trail Tune as part of the repair (which sounds like the valving rearrangement to give better low compression compliance and a blowoff threshold on lockout). Previously I ran the fork on 40psi (65kg rider) and was using all thr travel without bottoming out. Since its return 40 is too high to use all travel. Currently its about 35-37psi which seems to be good but I am getting a knock when I unweight the bars, like a top out. Is this too low and allowing the negative air spring to cause it to top out??


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## outtacontrol (Jan 5, 2014)

Was an awesome thread. Doesnt seem like anyone is home now?

For what its worth, it seems like the new seals were causing some stiction and affecting low speed compressions. Big hits are using full travel at my usual 40psi again


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

outtacontrol said:


> Hi awesome thread. I had the loss of travel issue recently with my sweeps and had them eventually repaired under warranty, after initially being told I had overfilled the damper, except it had never been apart. They were pretty coy about what caused the issue but did a Trail Tune as part of the repair (which sounds like the valving rearrangement to give better low compression compliance and a blowoff threshold on lockout). Previously I ran the fork on 40psi (65kg rider) and was using all thr travel without bottoming out. Since its return 40 is too high to use all travel. Currently its about 35-37psi which seems to be good but I am getting a knock when I unweight the bars, like a top out. Is this too low and allowing the negative air spring to cause it to top out??


Your issue is likely the negative spring being too soft, letting the positive spring extend to max with little to no fight which allows it to top out.
Deflate the fork, compress it, slide a zip-tie down the stanchion on each leg to get under the seal until it hisses. The inflate to 40psi and see what happens. You may find you need to go beyond 40psi.


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

I gave my '13 26" 140mm Velvet RL2 a rebuild. Here are my findings, and issues.

I used Torco RSF Medium in the lowers (about 17ml)
and Torco RSF Light in the damper (around 70ml)

I installed some Enduro seals as X-fusion didn't seem to have newer model seals in stock when I called. Plus $40 seemed a bit steep.
The Enduro seals I got were the Rockshox 32mm kit. So I'd assume using normal Rockshox seals would be okay.

-I have already had X-fusion mod my lockout to become a 'Firm' setting. I'm not sure if they do the same thing as the high speed mod in this thread, as I could not open the high speed stack without a 12mm cone wrench.

-This thread shows most users having the following shims in the low speed stack.
10 mm x .15 mm
8 mm x .1 mm
(4) 5 mm x .2 mm

However, mine had 2 of the 10mm x .15mm (a total of 7 shims instead of 6).
I first tried the mod that everyone else was doing.
10, 5, 8, 5, 5, 5 (and kept one of the 10's out)

The fork worked fine, but when the lockout was on, the fork squealed very loudly.
I put the extra 10 back in:
10, 10, 5, 8, 5, 5, 5

Again, the fork squealed very loudly.
-And the firm (former lock out) setting would ONLY work if I compressed the fork quickly and hard. And the firm setting didn't kick in until the fork was moving for a good inch or so. 
If I pushed slowly, it was like I didn't have the lock switch flipped.

After a few miles the fork became very soft. I flipped the lock (firm) setting back on, and it did nothing. I tore the fork down and realized I had not attached the upper and lower portions of the damper tight enough and it came completely unscrewed. Damper oil went into the lowers after it separated.

-So I put it back together back how it was from the factory.
10, 10, 8, 5, 5, 5, 5
And whatever high speed mod they did to make the lockout a (firm).

I will say that the open setting was very nice after I did the mod. But I'm unsure if I should go back to the mod.

-I assume the sqealing was from the damper coming apart or squirting oil, rather than from the shim mod??? If so, I wouldn't mind modding it again.

-However with the lockout (firm) switch engaged, it was taking a bit of a hit, and some travel before the firm mode would kick in (rendering it kind of useless).
I'm not sure if this was from the damper being loose, -OR-
From a combo of the low speed mod along with the lockout mod that X-fusion did already. 
I guess there is only one way to find out, unless one of you gurus has a good idea.

It was more plush with the mod----
AND the mod allowed me to put enough air in (75psi as opposed to 65) to inflate the fork to a full 140mm instead of 130.
AND I could use the full 140.

However, if it messes up the firm mode, I'll probably leave it as is.
Side note - with the stock seals, I was able to do the zip-tie trick to burp the lowers many many times without issue. 
After doing this one time to the enduro seals, it sort of dented them and I think it may have a slow oil leak. I'll say it's my fault for sticking a zip tie in there with what is likely a harder material than stock seals. But it never seemed to hurt anything with the old seals.


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## Valentino Meacci (Dec 19, 2015)

I'm trying to fix the DLA stuck-down. I found some pictures of the cartridge in this website:
http://http://www.chinabike.net/html/2013/DIY_0706/1681.html


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Guys,
I would like to soften Sweep RL2 in the open mode cuz its little bit harsh and have trail mode in locked position. Moreover I would like avoid diving as much as possible. Is this option reached by mid-valve stack changed to 10,5,8,5,5,5 and high speed stack change to two-one sequence called "between lock and open"
18x0.2, 
(2) 18x0.15, 
18x0.3, 
16x0.15, 
ring, 
center shim, 
(2) 18x0.15, 
(4) 12x0.15 

or better will be cobym2 sequence called "slighly firmer than fully open":

18x0.2,
18x0.15
18x0.3
16x0.15
ring
center shim
(3) 18x0.15
(4) 12x0.15

Thanks in advance! 

BTW: Did anybody check his restacked shims by X-Fusion and can share the differencies in sizes and sequence?


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Is there supposed to be air in the damper side? Without an IFP or a bladder there must be, right?


I just re-arranged the "mid-valve" shims then extended the damper fully and filled it to the top. This resulted in the fork hydro-locking after about 50mm of travel.


I released all the air, removed the damper top cap and compressed the fork which spilled some oil and then inflated to ~50 PSI and screwed the damper top cap back on. There is absolutely air in there now although the lockout still works.


Would be nice to know how little air I can get away with to minimise foaming.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Compress fork, depressurize bottom damper side. Its 70ml oil to the damper, move it few times to push out air from damper.

Your problem looks like too much oil in damper.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

It's definitely not 70ml in my Velvet, that's enough to completely hydrolock it. It's possible I didn't get all the old oil out I guess but I don't think so. Might try filling it to the top with the damper fully compressed and see how that goes.


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## bmwjnky (Mar 5, 2009)

I'm getting a top out clunk after trying to let the air out of the fork and refilling, I think I may have done the zip tie trick wrong. Do I compress the fork as I let the air out so it fully bottoms out or do I just let the air out of the fork with no weight on the bars? 

With so many of the same complaints you would think X-Fusion would have found this too stiff feeling problem before going into production.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

When you unscrew the schrader valve there should be no force required to bottom out fork. When it is you can make zip trick.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

nikon255 said:


> Guys,
> I would like to soften Sweep RL2 in the open mode cuz its little bit harsh and have trail mode in locked position. Moreover I would like avoid diving as much as possible. Is this option reached by mid-valve stack changed to 10,5,8,5,5,5 and high speed stack change to two-one sequence called "between lock and open"
> 18x0.2,
> (2) 18x0.15,
> ...


cobym2's stack is focussed on stack preload, while my stack is centered around more shims with less preload. I think that my stack is more usable for freeriding, while cobym2's stack is focussed on technical riding with slower sections.
If you hate brake dive, you might want to keep the lowspeed stack stock, to provide the support that you will lose by lowering the highspeeds stacks preload.


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## bmwjnky (Mar 5, 2009)

nikon255 said:


> When you unscrew the schrader valve there should be no force required to bottom out fork. When it is you can make zip trick.


Thanks for the video, I'll try again when i get home from work tonight.

As far as redoing the mid-valve shim stack how much oil is lost if this is the only thing I take out of the fork? Has anyone that weighs in the 160 pound range tried stacking the shims 8mm-5mm-10mm-5mm-5mm-5mm for a softer ride?


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Someone commented a few pages back that using anything other than the 10mm to cover the ports would be basically the same as removing all the shims. 

Going Ports, 10mm, 5mm, 5mm, 8mm, 5mm, 5mm would be very soft but might result in the 10mm shim failing as it would be flexing a lot.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

two-one said:


> cobym2's stack is focussed on stack preload, while my stack is centered around more shims with less preload. I think that my stack is more usable for freeriding, while cobym2's stack is focussed on technical riding with slower sections.
> If you hate brake dive, you might want to keep the lowspeed stack stock, to provide the support that you will lose by lowering the highspeeds stacks preload.


So good option for me is to leave stock low speed shimstack and change sequence of high speed shim stack to your proposition? How will it affect to open mode of RL2 cartridge?

Is it possible to soften "the lock" mode of RL2 without changing "the open" mode characteristic of fork?


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

Well...after MONTHS of perfect operation out of my Slant RL2...I'm missing full travel and I have an infrequent clunk sound. Probably 1-2 inches of travel I cannot achieve. 

Going to gut everything tonight and see what it is...hopefully just need to replace some seals on the damper and all will be well. Seems like the few others with this issue fixed it with a damper rebuild.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

y0bailey said:


> Well...after MONTHS of perfect operation out of my Slant RL2...I'm missing full travel and I have an infrequent clunk sound. Probably 1-2 inches of travel I cannot achieve.
> 
> Going to gut everything tonight and see what it is...hopefully just need to replace some seals on the damper and all will be well. Seems like the few others with this issue fixed it with a damper rebuild.


Well I gutted it tonight and somehow my upper half of the damper separated from the lower half of the damper. YIKES. Luckily everything appears unharmed (shims were loose but in good shape...not sure how!) and I've strapped it back together. So far so good.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

I heard its good to use blue thread locker in damper to be sure it wont unscrew itselfs


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

I rode some stuff with steeper g-out style bits today (Boulderdash and the steep exit from Dragon's Tail @ Rotorua) and realised how much I relied on the low-speed support.

I have added a 5mm shim between the 10mm and 8mm and replaced the damper fluid with Rock Oil 2.5 (10 cst @ 40 deg) and it's too divey.

Going to revert the shim changes and try to find a tool to access the high speed stack instead.


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## Ricanfred (Jun 4, 2015)

-subscribed-


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## Ricanfred (Jun 4, 2015)

I contacted X-Fusion regarding oil volumes and specifications for my Slide and they recommended Torco RSF Light 7.5W. From research, looks like this oil is closer to 5W than 7.5W. Thoughts? I can't find 7.5W on that brand. Also, I found this https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...gWmAc9FF9K3jn9vWQ&sig2=QhLX46jVn8UByEpSLHgsRg This document actually recommends Torco Medium which is closer to 10W. I'm confused.....


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

Ricanfred said:


> I contacted X-Fusion regarding oil volumes and specifications for my Slide and they recommended Torco RSF Light 7.5W. From research, looks like this oil is closer to 5W than 7.5W. Thoughts? I can't find 7.5W on that brand. Also, I found this https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...gWmAc9FF9K3jn9vWQ&sig2=QhLX46jVn8UByEpSLHgsRg This document actually recommends Torco Medium which is closer to 10W. I'm confused.....


You can't go by W values on oil. Its not consistent between brands and oil types.
I've used Torco RSF light and it works well.


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## Ricanfred (Jun 4, 2015)

ac1000 said:


> You can't go by W values on oil. Its not consistent between brands and oil types.
> I've used Torco RSF light and it works well.


Appreciate the response. I know what you're saying. My confusion comes from X-Fusion telling me to use 7.5W specifically from Torco's RSF Light brand. Looks like Torco doesn't manufacture/market that product as 7.5W and specs from MSDS state a weight closer to 5.


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## terrasmak (Jun 14, 2011)

Rough cut upgrade, has anyone done it yet. Anyone checked on the price ?


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## Mainturion (Dec 21, 2010)

Yes, I had my RL2 damper replaced with a Roughcut HLR damper by my local bike suspension specialist (Homein the Netherlands).
To be honest: I don't think it is a dramatic improvement, but I 'm not the most sensitive biker when it comes to subtle suspension changes.
To me the advantage of the RL2 damper is the presence of a lock-out switch which can not be found on the Roughcut HLR damper, I often run that switch halfway, creating a nice middle firm position.


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## lazarus2405 (Jul 16, 2011)

I've replaced my RL2 with the Roughcut HLR cartridge. They're $200 direct from XF, and in stock as of a month ago. Replacement is super easy, as you'd expect. Might as well get new dust wipers and air spring o-rings while you're at it and do a full service. XF also has a new Pure Slick Fluid, for the foam rings, lowers, air piston, etc. which is basically their version of Float Fluid. Hopefully that will spread out my drop-lowers-and-slick-honey intervals.

I've only put a couple of snow rides on it so far, so I can't comment on actual performance yet. It feels supple indoors, meaning pretty much nothing. It'll be still a few weeks before winter starts lifting (northeast US) and I can play with it on real dirt.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

lazarus2405 said:


> I've replaced my RL2 with the Roughcut HLR cartridge. They're $200 direct from XF, and in stock as of a month ago.


Wow, thats good news. They quoted me $300 back in October, and said they wont be in stock until April or May, which I guess is right around the corner, so they werent off by much. But great to hear theyre a bit cheaper than expected. Might actually consider it now.


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## lazarus2405 (Jul 16, 2011)

I wonder, was $300 you were quoted for the part itself, or for them to also perform the damper swap and lowers service? My $200 was just for the damper cartridge, plus a few bucks shipping. 

If someone's made it this far through this particular thread, there's no reason they couldn't do it themselves.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Just the damper itself, not including shipping. Maybe it was a simple typo. Maybe they decided to lower the pricing. Who knows.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

I was told 200 or so for the damper, and 300 total for them to install it (and do a full service). they said I couldnt do it at home as special tools are needed. is that really true? Lazarus, you did it yourself right? special tools necessary? Besides the ones i already have to take apart the current damper?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I haven't cracked mine open yet, but isn't that *exactly* what this whole thread is about? Pulling the damper out, tuning it, and popping it back in? I think you only need the large flat wrench or ground down socket, a spanner wrench, and something to safely pound out the bottom bolts. But like I said, I haven't been in there yet.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

of course, but I dont know anything about the new damper and just curious as to why xfusion said i would need "special tools".


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## lazarus2405 (Jul 16, 2011)

dwyooaj said:


> Lazarus, you did it yourself right? special tools necessary?


The usual stuff: You need a 1.5mm hex to remove the RL2 adjuster knobs, 2mm hex to install the RC HLR knobs, 12mm socket (I think? Might have been 13mm) for the foot nut, 28mm socket (ground down, 6-point) for the top caps, softblow hammer to unseat the bottom, torque wrench for said sockets to put it back together, and lube oil for the lowers.

There are two special bits, though.

First, XF will sell you an inexpensive (don't remember exactly, but just a few bucks) "RL2 damper tool". It's a small bit of aluminum with internal threads on one end and a 5mm hex socket on the other. It threads on the same threads as the locknut to pull the end of the damper shaft into the lowers and seat it. You want this to keep from stripping threads when you try to put the locknut back on, instead of having to hack something together like you see in the first few pages of this thread. Also use it when you unseat the old RL2 damper, to protect the rebound shaft when you hit it with a mallet.

The second, there's an odd nut that threads in the top under the LSC knob and holds the HSC knob in place. It accepts an 8mm hex, but the top of the LSC adjuster rod is in the way - you'd need a special hollowed out 8mm to engage it. (It might be the same exact tool XF uses to install/remove the compression circuits on the Vector, which they will _not_ sell you.)

I snugged mine up using external snap ring pliers, engaging the pins into the corners. A sufficiently small pin spanner should work too. Or, worst case, you can't get it snugged and your HSC knob rattles a little, but it won't pop off unless the LSC knob does first.








Here's a picture of the bits. Clockwise from top left: RL2 damper tool, LSC knob, HSC knob, and the HSC knob nut.








This is how it fits on the top cap. HSC knob, then the nut with the threads down, then the LSC knob screws into the rod in the center.

And remember, 130 in-lbs/15 N-m on the top caps, 61 in-lbs/6.8 N-m on the foot nuts. All the torque specs are here: http://www.xfusionshox.com/images/service_center/torque_chart.xlsx


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Thanks! Yeah I already have all those tools (as I am the one who started this thread). I can deal with the HSC nut. Is oil added the same way as the rl2, or is it a completely sealed damper?


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Lazarus, did you buy it directly from xfusion? when i asked them about it it sure seemed like they didnt want to sell it to me on its own but wanted me to send the fork in instead.


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## lazarus2405 (Jul 16, 2011)

Whoops, I didn't even realize you were the OP. Sorry if I came off little patronizing. 

The cartridge is completely sealed and ships pre-bled. You only need to add lube oil in the bottoms. 

I did get mine direct from then - I'm surprised they don't want to sell you a damper. I think X-Fusion's reluctance might be that they don't want his damper getting used in forks with old/dry/worn seals. Reputation is a big deal, and the Roughcut will probably be their top of the line for several years. Hence them really wanting to do a service too, to make sure it feels like it really should, I guess. 

Maybe it will help if you're getting dust wipers and the air spring seals at the same time. That's what I did when I ordered, but only because all the seals and o-rings in my fork was two years old with probably 250 hours of moving time. 

Or maybe they don't want to sell it to the average rider who doesn't normally work on suspension ... But then why mention retrofit dampers with the RC announcement last year? I mean, the kind of rider who knows enough to want to swap a damper probably can drop their own lowers... Maybe make it clear what your level of expertise is? 

Hope that helps.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Yeah, when i order it ill make that clear. I was just asking them about avilability at the time. I think I will order new seals at the same time, its about time to do that. Thanks for all the info.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

this should deal with the hsc knob nut : 6pc Hex Tamper Proof L-Key Set, 2.5-8mm, Bondhus 48386 if the hole is too small it can easily be drilled bigger, much easier than drilling a centered hole in a plain hex key.


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## Mainturion (Dec 21, 2010)

dwyooaj said:


> this should deal with the hsc knob nut : 6pc Hex Tamper Proof L-Key Set, 2.5-8mm, Bondhus 48386 if the hole is too small it can easily be drilled bigger, much easier than drilling a centered hole in a plain hex key.


What I did was just that:
I took a lower quality 8 mm hex key that I hackneyed (?) off (let's say 25 mm length).
Than I put it in a lathe and drilled a 5,5 mm diameter hole in it (about 6 mm deep).
This home made toolbit works brilliantly! :thumbsup:

I hope you understand my Denglish (Dutch-English)


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

i dont have a lathe


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## KnuutV (Oct 6, 2013)

Subscribed.

PS. Happy owner of a Trace DLA RL2!


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Or, take a piece of crappy thinwalled aluminum 5/16" pipe and bend/hammer the circumference of one end into a hexagon, should be the right size


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## cstem (Jan 13, 2006)

I picked up a RL2 fork that had about 90 miles on it and was leaking from the lower nuts. I opened it up to confirm it was new and the oil from the cartridge was new. Bottom line is I only wanted the thru-axle lowers and am now wanting to sell the rest with my QR lowers. $90 shipped in the USA. Basically you can have brand new stancions and seals with new damper to either replace what you have, or to experiment with. Only think missing is the rebound knob screw (sorry mine was getting worn after 5 rebuilds). 

The only reason I did not keep the guts on this is that I rebuilt my shim stack and it still works flawlessly after 3500 miles. The QR lowers I can include are in decent shape with time serts used on the brake bolt bosses and had no rocking at the bushings. Seals were installed 800 miles ago. I am only spamming this thread because I do not want to deal with a bunch of dudes asking me a ton of questions like, "will this work on my 1993 GT?" Having been in this thread a bunch, I know most of you all are pretty sane. Thanks! PLEASE PM ME SO I SEE A NOTIFICATION-I am internet dumb and may not check in this thread for awhile because as we all know, X-Fusion forks are so damn reliable, we don't need to check here that often!


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Which specific RL2 fork? The RL 2 damper is in 32mm and 34mm forks for all three wheel sizes and the lowers at least will be different between them.


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## love_that_flow (Nov 23, 2015)

Hey everyone I have been lurking this thread for sometime now and finally have a question. 
What pressures/high speed/low speed/ rebound are you all running on your roughcut forks?
I am 77ish kg with 6 clicks of low speed F.F.O
High Speed F.O.
Rebound 6 clicks F.F.O.
60ish psi and havent used full travel yet.

It is a 650b sweep on an Intense Spider 275.

Cheers

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Roughcut thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspe...rvice-tuning-thread-1005439.html#post12511926


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## love_that_flow (Nov 23, 2015)

PhillipJ said:


> Roughcut thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspe...rvice-tuning-thread-1005439.html#post12511926


Many thanks.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## wankel (Mar 7, 2004)

Quick question...I am installing a travel adjust spacer and I think I need to take apart the air spring assembly so I can slide the spacer on. Do I just use a hex wrench in the bottom of the rod to unthread the bottom foot thingy that keeps everything from sliding off?

Thanks


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## cstem (Jan 13, 2006)

32 slants. The stancions and guts will always work in that size.


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## cstem (Jan 13, 2006)

BTW- gotta say I cannot believe I have held out on thru-axle for so long. The bike handles so much better on hard conrnering and drops/jumps. If you are still QR- save your pennies and get with the now!


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

wankel said:


> Quick question...I am installing a travel adjust spacer and I think I need to take apart the air spring assembly so I can slide the spacer on. Do I just use a hex wrench in the bottom of the rod to unthread the bottom foot thingy that keeps everything from sliding off?
> 
> Thanks


The video on the xfusion site covers the procedure well.
You don't have to disassemble the air spring assembly to change the travel.
The only thing different I do is that I found the park tool #1 (green) pin spanner fit better than the recommended #2 red pin spanner.
And if you don't have the damper tool xfusion sells it for a couple bucks and it makes fork servicing much easier.


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## wankel (Mar 7, 2004)

ac1000 said:


> The video on the xfusion site covers the procedure well.
> You don't have to disassemble the air spring assembly to change the travel.
> The only thing different I do is that I found the park tool #1 (green) pin spanner fit better than the recommended #2 red pin spanner.
> And if you don't have the damper tool xfusion sells it for a couple bucks and it makes fork servicing much easier.


Sorry, I should have mentioned that I am lowering travel from 160 to 150 mm using a 10 mm spacer (not using the preset pin positions). The only way I can see to get the spacer on is by removing the foot, correct?


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

wankel said:


> Sorry, I should have mentioned that I am lowering travel from 160 to 150 mm using a 10 mm spacer (not using the preset pin positions). The only way I can see to get the spacer on is by removing the foot, correct?


The spacers are horseshoe shaped so they just slide on from the sideIf you are using a makeshift spacer then yes you would have to disassemble the air spring.


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## wankel (Mar 7, 2004)

ac1000 said:


> The spacers are horseshoe shaped so they just slide on from the sideIf you are using a makeshift spacer then yes you would have to disassemble the air spring.


I purchased the spacer from an XFusion distributor, and was surprised to see that it wasn't horseshoe shaped as I was expecting.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

cstem said:


> 32 slants. The stancions and guts will always work in that size.


The Slant is a 34mm fork.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Hi Guys,

Just got some brand 2014 Trace RL2 DLA forks pretty cheap and i think they may have an issue straight out of the box. They don't seem to have a a top out bumper and feel like they are metal to metal on the end of the return stroke. Never owned X Fusion forks before but i think i can safely assume this isn't normal. I service and repair forks regularly and have not come across forks without a top out bumper until now. They are 110mm-140mm DLA travel adjust but i am measuring 150mm exposed stanchion. I cant find anything on DLA service to check if there should be a top out bumper either. Can't even find an exploded parts list. I'm beginning to think this was a mistake.....

Waiting to hear back from CR on what they are going to do for me but thought i would post something here in the meantime. I have an event coming up and the best solution might be fixing it myself.


----------



## cstem (Jan 13, 2006)

Sorry about that I meant Slide. Long weekend!


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## wankel (Mar 7, 2004)

wankel said:


> I purchased the spacer from an XFusion distributor, and was surprised to see that it wasn't horseshoe shaped as I was expecting.


So rather than try and take the assembly apart, I just cut a section out of the spacer making it horseshoe shaped and that seemed to work fine.

Thanks


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## KnuutV (Oct 6, 2013)

Hi

I just recently bought the same fork from CRC and the same issue out of the box. It was was really harsh and topped out loud.

I did the zip tie trick, and that totally changed how the fork feels. So you best try that first.

Just slide a small plastic zip tie under the wiper seal and you should hear air hissing. Obviously make sure everything is nice and clean first...


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

KnuutV said:


> Hi
> 
> I just recently bought the same fork from CRC and the same issue out of the box. It was was really harsh and topped out loud.
> 
> ...


Ok thanks, will give that a try but it still shouldn't top out with a solid metallic clunk though. Not sure as all the forks I have serviced have a decent top out bumper inside. Havent opened up an X Fusion fork before though. Mainly Fox, Marzocchi, RS. This fork feels like a slide hammer even when I up the rebound damp a bit it slows the return down but still a definite metal to metal feel at top out.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

niva1989 said:


> Ok thanks, will give that a try but it still shouldn't top out with a solid metallic clunk though. Not sure as all the forks I have serviced have a decent top out bumper inside. Havent opened up an X Fusion fork before though. Mainly Fox, Marzocchi, RS. This fork feels like a slide hammer even when I up the rebound damp a bit it slows the return down but still a definite metal to metal feel at top out.


Am familiar with the cable tie trick as i have a pair of Pikes on my other ride. Didn't make any difference in this case. maybe I have a different issue. Am going to exchange them.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

niva1989 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Just got some brand 2014 Trace RL2 DLA forks pretty cheap and i think they may have an issue straight out of the box. They don't seem to have a a top out bumper and feel like they are metal to metal on the end of the return stroke. Never owned X Fusion forks before but i think i can safely assume this isn't normal. I service and repair forks regularly and have not come across forks without a top out bumper until now. They are 110mm-140mm DLA travel adjust but i am measuring 150mm exposed stanchion. I cant find anything on DLA service to check if there should be a top out bumper either. Can't even find an exploded parts list. I'm beginning to think this was a mistake.....
> 
> Waiting to hear back from CR on what they are going to do for me but thought i would post something here in the meantime. I have an event coming up and the best solution might be fixing it myself.


Someone must have had a DLA travel adjust air spring apart. I just need to know if there should be a top out bumper installed. Mine is definitely metal to metal on top out.


----------



## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

niva1989 said:


> Ok thanks, will give that a try but it still shouldn't top out with a solid metallic clunk though. Not sure as all the forks I have serviced have a decent top out bumper inside. Havent opened up an X Fusion fork before though. Mainly Fox, Marzocchi, RS. This fork feels like a slide hammer even when I up the rebound damp a bit it slows the return down but still a definite metal to metal feel at top out.


I had the slide hammer feel when I first got mine. I had way too much pressure and was overpowering the negative spring at 110 psi. I lowered to 90 psi and added some more oil in the air chamber for a more progressive air spring and that fixed mine right up.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

GuitsBoy said:


> I had the slide hammer feel when I first got mine. I had way too much pressure and was overpowering the negative spring at 110 psi. I lowered to 90 psi and added some more oil in the air chamber for a more progressive air spring and that fixed mine right up.


Thanks. I am feeling more confident that this normal for X Fusion. I just wanted to be sure that I wasnt going to slide hammer them apart when riding. I have a second set coming from CR anyway and if they are the same then I guess thats how they are. I am a bit of a Clyde so need the pressure up a bit. Will have to play around with them a bit. Thanks for the advice. I will probably fit my own bumper anyway as it just doesnt feel right to be metal to metal. I went back and had a look at my old Fox Floats and RS Pikes. If i bump up the pressure in them and back off rebound dampening fully they still have a soft thud at topout due to the rubber bumper. I still feel it is missing as I just dont think anyone would make a fork without a top out bumper.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

niva1989 said:


> Thanks. I am feeling more confident that this normal for X Fusion. I just wanted to be sure that I wasnt going to slide hammer them apart when riding. I have a second set coming from CR anyway and if they are the same then I guess thats how they are. I am a bit of a Clyde so need the pressure up a bit. Will have to play around with them a bit. Thanks for the advice. I will probably fit my own bumper anyway as it just doesnt feel right to be metal to metal. I went back and had a look at my old Fox Floats and RS Pikes. If i bump up the pressure in them and back off rebound dampening fully they still have a soft thud at topout due to the rubber bumper. I still feel it is missing as I just dont think anyone would make a fork without a top out bumper.


I'm about 235 myself, and I really thought I needed 110 or more psi, but these forks run pretty progressive as is, and even more so with extra oil. I've yet to bottom mine out at only 90 psi and 130mm travel and some extra oil. Give it a shot.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

GuitsBoy said:


> I'm about 235 myself, and I really thought I needed 110 or more psi, but these forks run pretty progressive as is, and even more so with extra oil. I've yet to bottom mine out at only 90 psi and 130mm travel and some extra oil. Give it a shot.


Ok. We are about the same weight then. I will give it a go. I have replacement forks on their way from CR so will wait till i get those as i have already packed up the others. I will need to set up the replacement anyway so will use your advice when i get them.


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## KnuutV (Oct 6, 2013)

niva1989 said:


> Am familiar with the cable tie trick as i have a pair of Pikes on my other ride. Didn't make any difference in this case. maybe I have a different issue. Am going to exchange them.


On my forks the clunk disappeared after equalizing the lowers, yours have probably something else wrong then...

On my Trace dla spring I run about 115psi and I weight about 75 kg.

PS. In this thread a couple pages back are pictures of a disassembled dla spring.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

KnuutV said:


> On my forks the clunk disappeared after equalizing the lowers, yours have probably something else wrong then...
> 
> On my Trace dla spring I run about 115psi and I weight about 75 kg.
> 
> PS. In this thread a couple pages back are pictures of a disassembled dla spring.


Cheers. Not sure how I missed that.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Valentino Meacci said:


> I'm trying to fix the DLA stuck-down. I found some pictures of the cartridge in this website:
> http://http://www.chinabike.net/html/2013/DIY_0706/1681.html
> 
> View attachment 1037108
> ...


Did you get your stuck down sorted in the end. Dies the dla cart need a bleed?


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

dwyooaj said:


> Lazarus, did you buy it directly from xfusion? when i asked them about it it sure seemed like they didnt want to sell it to me on its own but wanted me to send the fork in instead.


Here is another pic of the RL2 damper tool:

X FUSION RL2 Aftermarket damper tool 2015 :: £10.00 :: WORKSHOP :: Tools- Workshop :: 18 Bikes Web Shop


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

KnuutV said:


> On my forks the clunk disappeared after equalizing the lowers, yours have probably something else wrong then...
> 
> On my Trace dla spring I run about 115psi and I weight about 75 kg.
> 
> PS. In this thread a couple pages back are pictures of a disassembled dla spring.


Ok. I emailed X Fusion service in the US directly and John couldn't have been more helpful. He responded to further questions straight away which was great as I am in Australia. He explained the best way to purge the negative air Spring is to let all of the air out while compressing the fork fully. You have to make sure you let every last bit of air out. This resets the negative air Spring pressure and restored my fork top out bumper feel. With the DLA cartridge the negative air Spring is the top out bumper. 
I am sure this has been covered elsewhere in this thread but I might have missed it. Doesn't hurt to repeat it. Kudos again to X Fusion service support.


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

niva1989 said:


> Ok. I emailed X Fusion service in the US directly and John couldn't have been more helpful. He responded to further questions straight away which was great as I am in Australia. He explained the best way to purge the negative air Spring is to let all of the air out while compressing the fork fully. You have to make sure you let every last bit of air out. This resets the negative air Spring pressure and restored my fork top out bumper feel. With the DLA cartridge the negative air Spring is the top out bumper.
> I am sure this has been covered elsewhere in this thread but I might have missed it. Doesn't hurt to repeat it. Kudos again to X Fusion service support.


Yeah, that advice is in here somewhere. I know I've written it multiple times on different threads over the years, but it is likely buried in the 15 pages... It's often called "burping" the fork.
Glad they help you sort it out.

I've started thinking there could be more to this than what is suggested.
For example, when "burping" the fork and compressing it fully, the negative chamber will be 100% full of air, which might be ideal for a heavy rider, but maybe only compressing it 80% of the way then burping it will be ideal for a lighter weight rider. Too much negative spring could lead to fork diving, or having to put in even more air to the positive chamber resulting in a change in performance, or not being able to get full travel.

Example: 100% burp may require 100PSI to get the fork to extend all the way to 140mm. A lighter weight rider will not be running 100PSI, but might be running 60PSI, and which point the fork will not extend to 140mm because the negative chamber is overpowering the 60PSI in the positive chamber. Thus the rider will have a fork that extends to ~120mm. That person will then come on here asking why they don't get a full 140mm.

Maybe the perfect amount is where the fork extends to about 135mm when the proper PSI is in the positive chamber. The extra 5mm is effectively the top-out bumper provided by the negative spring pressure. So they key will be finding how far to compress the fork when burping it.

This would be similar to the older RS Revelation where we could individually add positive and negative pressure. With that fork it was clear to see what would happen if the pressures were not properly balanced.

Thoughts?


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## KnuutV (Oct 6, 2013)

IMHO:
If the lowers are burbed while fully compressing the fork, there will be negative pressure (relative to outside) in the lowers once the fork is extended. That might stop the fork from fully extending by creating a vacuum effect.

If there is positive pressure in the lowers, it will make it harder to compress the fork and adds to the spring rate.

I don't think the empty space in the lowers is the negative spring. But there must be negative spring within the dla spring assembly and the normal spring has a coil negative spring.

Maybe when you release the air from the spring and compress the fork the internal negative chamber in the DLA spring is reset...

This is an interesting mystery haha


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

KnuutV said:


> IMHO:
> If the lowers are burbed while fully compressing the fork, there will be negative pressure (relative to outside) in the lowers once the fork is extended. That might stop the fork from fully extending by creating a vacuum effect.
> 
> If there is positive pressure in the lowers, it will make it harder to compress the fork and adds to the spring rate.
> ...


From what I found out it looks as thought the negative air spring is in the sealed cartridge section and not the lowers so the only way to purge it is to release all of the air and compress fully. I tried the cable tie behind the seal and it didn't work. Will have this fork apart one day when its time for a full service and will work it out for sure then.


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## Pembo6 (Jul 17, 2013)

Subscribed. 
Just waiting for my slant to arrive. 
Looking forward to opening it up!!
Thanks everyone.


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## Pembo6 (Jul 17, 2013)

I need to open up my 2013 Slant to change the travel from 120 to 130. Shdou be able to do that easy with the advice in this post.

This might be a dumb question.....but is there any way to reduce the axle to crown measurement? It is nearly 1cm longer than my previous fork, and I am wanting to keep the BB as low as possible.

Increasing travel to 130mm will also increase BB height, so I am trying to keep it to a minimum.

Thanks for any tips.


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## ftajiri (Dec 19, 2009)

hi! I have a x-fusion slide rl2.. I feel the compression harsh and very firm comparated with reba...

how i can adjust or increase the sensitive on small bumps...

I read about to realocate the shims on damper... how I can Procedure?


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

ftajiri said:


> I read about to realocate the shims on damper... how I can Procedure?


Look back through this thread until you find Two-One's post about re-arranging the high-speed shim stack then do the thing he says.


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## Ricanfred (Jun 4, 2015)

Thanks to this thread I was able to service my RL2 Slide fork. I have not been able to test it on the trails yet, but I did notice that it feels 'sticky' at initial compression. This feeling goes after compressing it a few times, but comes back after a few hours or days of not cycling it. Is there a break-in period? I used enduro instead x-fusion wiper/seals. Thoughts?


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

The initial stiction is due to the air spring being unlubricated when the fork is stored upright. As you've noticed it goes away after a few cycles because oil gets moved around. Storing the fork upside down also prevents this from happening. 


It's not a problem as far as I can tell.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

No need to store bike upside down. Just turn the bike upside down for about thirty seconds to allow the oil to lubricate the foam rings under the wipers.


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## Criss (Apr 20, 2016)

Hi guys! 
I hope you can help me. My fork has a little bit of uppers-lowers play. I sent the fork to service and they told me that the problem is on the bushings, so: do you know where can I buy a Bushing Kit for a Slant? I'm from Chile and here no one have spare parts for this fork. I bought the fork on Ebay so is very difficult to send it for a "guarantee replacement". I've searched on the internet but with no good results :/ Another possibility is to find a Fox 34 Bushing Kit instead of a X-Fusion specific but I don't know if it works without problems. Any idea? Please!

Thanks!


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

You have two X-Fusion Service Centers in Chile.

X Fusion Shox International Dealers

If that doesn't work out for you, check the guys in the USA, in Santa Cruz. Their customer service is excellent.


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## Criss (Apr 20, 2016)

Centurion_ said:


> You have two X-Fusion Service Centers in Chile.
> 
> X Fusion Shox International Dealers
> 
> If that doesn't work out for you, check the guys in the USA, in Santa Cruz. Their customer service is excellent.


Yeah, I called them but they don't have Bushing kits, apparently there's no stock in Chile. They told me that thay have to contact X-Fusion to import some kits and everything but is veery slow, maybe in two weeks they will know if they can service my fork, "maybe". On the other service center they don't have replacements neither (so the have to contact X-Fusion too) and they told me that the replacement will cost something like 200USD, which is very expensive in my opinion. 
I will contact the Santa Cruz guys. Maybe they can send me a kit, I hope. 
If someone else knows if I can buy the bushings online or if another kit works I'll be very thankful.

Thanks Centurion!


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## Criss (Apr 20, 2016)

Centurion_ said:


> You have two X-Fusion Service Centers in Chile.
> 
> X Fusion Shox International Dealers
> 
> If that doesn't work out for you, check the guys in the USA, in Santa Cruz. Their customer service is excellent.


Yeah, I called them but they don't have Bushing kits, apparently there's no stock in Chile. They told me that thay have to contact X-Fusion to import some kits and everything but is veery slow, maybe in two weeks they will know if they can service my fork, "maybe". On the other service center they don't have replacements neither (so the have to contact X-Fusion too) and they told me that the replacement will cost something like 200USD, which is very expensive in my opinion. 
I will contact the Santa Cruz guys. Maybe they can send me a kit, I hope. 
If someone else knows if I can buy the bushings online or if another kit works I'll be very thankful.

Thanks Centurion!


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## Criss (Apr 20, 2016)

Yeah, I called them but they don't have Bushing kits, apparently there's no stock in Chile. They told me that thay have to contact X-Fusion to import some kits and everything but is veery slow, maybe in two weeks they will know if they can service my fork, "maybe". On the other service center they don't have replacements neither (so the have to contact X-Fusion too) and they told me that the replacement will cost something like 200USD, which is very expensive in my opinion. 
I will contact the Santa Cruz guys. Maybe they can send me a kit, I hope. 
If someone else knows if I can buy the bushings online or if another kit works I'll be very thankful.

Thanks Centurion!


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## borabora (Feb 16, 2011)

I live in Santa Cruz and have done walk-in business with X-Fusion before. They have been extremely helpful and responsive so far. If it ends up that they can't help you then post again here and maybe I can be of assistance.


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## kubikeman (Jun 4, 2010)

I just wanted to give a shout out to X-Fusion for helping me out last week. My RL2 Sweep had a problem with a leaky air spring. Customer service/Warranty knew exactly what the problem was and promptly got me a new one; no charge.

Too many complaints and not enough praise when companies provide prompt, good customer service. I'm thrilled with the performance the Sweep RL2 has given me. I really feel like it's an underrated fork!


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## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

I have tightened the air chamber cap with park tool spa-2 (red) according to step 14 in the original post. I did not hear any click and I did not feel it was too tight. I tried it a few more times, still no pop. The basic problem is that the tool flexes a lot even at a low torque and the pins tend to come out from the holes, I have to push it hard to keep it in place. Because of it I cannot apply the required torque easily. The tool marked the holes which I hate. I assembled the fork and it seems not to leak any air but is it secure? I am not sure if I under or overtighten it.


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

freddy01 said:


> I have tightened the air chamber cap with park tool spa-2 (red) according to step 14 in the original post. I did not hear any click and I did not feel it was too tight. I tried it a few more times, still no pop. The basic problem is that the tool flexes a lot even at a low torque and the pins tend to come out from the holes, I have to push it hard to keep it in place. Because of it I cannot apply the required torque easily. The tool marked the holes which I hate. I assembled the fork and it seems not to leak any air but is it secure? I am not sure if I under or overtighten it.


I found the park tool spa1 pin spanner green fits way better.


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## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

ac1000 said:


> I found the park tool spa1 pin spanner green fits way better.


Thank you, I will order the spa-1.

I am worried that I damaged the cap. Not sure that I see it well but it seems to me that the curve of the cap is just slightly deformed around the two holes the spa-2 marked the most. From the side the cap seems to be perfectly level with the end of the tube. Should I replace the cap or you exeprince similar marks on yours (e.g. it is normal)?

Another topic: I ordered the PAW-12 for the top caps but it was a mistake. Should I use the SCW-28 cone wrench or any better idea?


----------



## Criss (Apr 20, 2016)

Thanks Borabora! 

I sent an email to X-Fusion Santa Cruz but they told me that they don't sell the bushing as it requires a special tool and a sizer so I answered that the guys from the service center -here in Chile- told me that, in fact, they can do the instalation and that I didn't want to install the bushings by myself. John (the guy from Santa Cruz) had doubts about if the service center can do the work so I asked if they could sell me anyway a kit as an exception and he didn't give me a decisive answer about if this was possible or not, he said that they don't have bushings in stock. Tomorrow I'll go to the service center here in Chile to ask if they have bushings in stock now. :/


----------



## borabora (Feb 16, 2011)

Criss said:


> Thanks Borabora!
> 
> I sent an email to X-Fusion Santa Cruz but they told me that they don't sell the bushing as it requires a special tool and a sizer so I answered that the guys from the service center -here in Chile- told me that, in fact, they can do the instalation and that I didn't want to install the bushings by myself. John (the guy from Santa Cruz) had doubts about if the service center can do the work so I asked if they could sell me anyway a kit as an exception and he didn't give me a decisive answer about if this was possible or not, he said that they don't have bushings in stock. Tomorrow I'll go to the service center here in Chile to ask if they have bushings in stock now. :/


Have you asked them what their turn-around time and cost would be for a rebuild? Also, some bushing kits are available on eBay. You'd have to sieve through the offerings to find the correct ones. And, of course, eBay can be a bit risky.
My offer stands if you need local help facilitating xfusion service or parts.


----------



## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

freddy01 said:


> Thank you, I will order the spa-1.
> 
> I am worried that I damaged the cap. Not sure that I see it well but it seems to me that the curve of the cap is just slightly deformed around the two holes the spa-2 marked the most. From the side the cap seems to be perfectly level with the end of the tube. Should I replace the cap or you exeprince similar marks on yours (e.g. it is normal)?
> 
> Another topic: I ordered the PAW-12 for the top caps but it was a mistake. Should I use the SCW-28 cone wrench or any better idea?


The spa1 tool fits in the small holes just like the spa2 sort of does.
Id be curious what tool fits in those larger holes.
I cant imagine you damaged the cap but who knows.

For the top cap the best tool is a ground down socket. Ive heard you can try a regular socket over a plastic bag but I've never attemped it.


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## gibsonlespaulspecial (Dec 27, 2012)

Well 10 minutes into my lunchtime ride my rl2 sweep started topping out on me. Nothing subtle, just that its uncompressed position is fully extended and after every little bump it slams itself back there. Before this, I had noticed a little play in the fork, i.e. when I take the bike of the rack and put in the ground, it compresses a little as if there is some slop in the negative spring function. Perhaps this was the beginning of the far worse problem that I have now. I'll take it apart tonight and have a look. Anybody else have this issue?


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## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

ac1000 said:


> The spa1 tool fits in the small holes just like the spa2 sort of does.
> Id be curious what tool fits in those larger holes.
> I cant imagine you damaged the cap but who knows.
> 
> For the top cap the best tool is a ground down socket. Ive heard you can try a regular socket over a plastic bag but I've never attemped it.


The SPA-1 has a 2.9, while the SPA-2 has a 2.3mm of pin diameter. I can imagine the greater diameter fits better. After "this accident" I do think the SPA-2 is not the right tool. But I don't expect too much from SPA-1 either. They flex and the pins tend to come out from the holes. I would need a more stable tool, whatever the price is.

Now I guess I can replace the whole air piston assembly because I can't buy the cap separately.


----------



## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

I've bought two 24 and 28mm sockets (the 24mm one for my Rock Shox) to get them machined to flat. The internal size of the 28mm socket was 28.3-28.5mm. There was a huge play between the nuts and the tool both on the air chamber and damper side nuts, and also on the Rock Shox relevation's 24mm nut. I took the tools back to the local shop. It was a King Tony, a good local brand. Do you have any recommendation on the socket brand I should buy? To be honest I would rather try the Park Tool SCW-28 cone wrench.


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## lazarus2405 (Jul 16, 2011)

I bought whatever Home Depot's house brand was (Husky?), and it was a good snug fit.

You might consider buying a specific fork top cap wrench instead. They're a lot less expensive than I thought. Lunar Bike Tools

Edit: The downside being that you can't tighten them with a torque wrench. You'd be going by feel.


----------



## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

lazarus2405 said:


> I bought whatever Home Depot's house brand was (Husky?), and it was a good snug fit.
> 
> You might consider buying a specific fork top cap wrench instead. They're a lot less expensive than I thought. Lunar Bike Tools
> 
> Edit: The downside being that you can't tighten them with a torque wrench. You'd be going by feel.


Thank you, I saw something similar but I was not able to find where to buy it. It is made in the US and I don't see it in Europe. But it may be worth even with the import taxes.

I also found something better, the Abbey Suspension Top Cap Sockets and it works with torque wrench.

I vote for the second one but the price is senseless.


----------



## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

lazarus2405 said:


> I bought whatever Home Depot's house brand was (Husky?), and it was a good snug fit.
> 
> You might consider buying a specific fork top cap wrench instead. They're a lot less expensive than I thought. Lunar Bike Tools
> 
> Edit: The downside being that you can't tighten them with a torque wrench. You'd be going by feel.


I bought the lunar bike tools wrenches and they don't fit the top cap well on my xfusion Sweep.

My ground down Wilmar 6 point 28mm socket does the job perfectly.
Its a tool that a home mechanic doesn't use very often but it makes the job much easier and you don't f-up your top caps.


----------



## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

I've just been using a 28mm open-ended wrench with no issues. The top caps are not *that* tight that you risk damage.


----------



## Criss (Apr 20, 2016)

borabora said:


> Have you asked them what their turn-around time and cost would be for a rebuild? Also, some bushing kits are available on eBay. You'd have to sieve through the offerings to find the correct ones. And, of course, eBay can be a bit risky.
> My offer stands if you need local help facilitating xfusion service or parts.


I didn't ask, I was (and I'm) trying to avoid having to send the fork to USA because it can take a lot of time to have it back and that means no riding. I searched on eBay but I don't know wich are the correct ones, almost everything that appears is for Fox or RockShox. 
About your offer, I think that I'll send you a message if you don't mind just to don't "over-reply" the thread (?)

Again, thank you for your response!


----------



## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

Criss said:


> I didn't ask, I was (and I'm) trying to avoid having to send the fork to USA because it can take a lot of time to have it back and that means no riding. I searched on eBay but I don't know wich are the correct ones, almost everything that appears is for Fox or RockShox.
> About your offer, I think that I'll send you a message if you don't mind just to don't "over-reply" the thread (?)
> 
> Again, thank you for your response!


If I understand well, you need to rebuild the bushings in the legs. I am not a professional, but in my personal opinion it is something you shouldn't do at home (even with proper tools). If I were you I would send the fork to the factory for this maintenance.


----------



## Ricanfred (Jun 4, 2015)

lazarus2405 said:


> I bought whatever Home Depot's house brand was (Husky?), and it was a good snug fit.
> 
> You might consider buying a specific fork top cap wrench instead. They're a lot less expensive than I thought. Lunar Bike Tools
> 
> Edit: The downside being that you can't tighten them with a torque wrench. You'd be going by feel.


That wrench is nice! Anyways, I use an adjustable wrench with no issues. I'm just very careful fitting/tightening it to the damper when applying force to avoid damaging it.


----------



## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

Could you tell me the diameter of the pins and the distance of two pin centers of the air chamber cap? I already assembled my fork.

Something like this tool would be much more stable with 4 pins instead of the flexing park tool spa-1/2. I should find one with a larger hole because the rod of the air chamber should go through the center of the tool.


----------



## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

ac1000 said:


> I bought the lunar bike tools wrenches and they don't fit the top cap well on my xfusion Sweep.
> 
> My ground down Wilmar 6 point 28mm socket does the job perfectly.
> Its a tool that a home mechanic doesn't use very often but it makes the job much easier and you don't f-up your top caps.


Why didn't the lunar tool fit? Could you please to measure the size of the tool and the size of your top cap nut?

Mine is 28.00mm both on the the air and damper sides.


----------



## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

However, where I tried to unscrew the air side nut with a park tool adjustable wrench I measure 28.06mm. It enlarged with 0.06mm.

I did not enforce it because the park tool started to open when I added a little torque and I saw it would not work. It left very thin marks on the bottom of nut, not on the sides. But it seems, it deformed the sides too.

As I mentioned above my air chamber cap is also marked because of the "manufacturer recommended" park tool spa-2 crap.

All these crappy components are like butter. The air spring assembly (including the cap) would cost 50 EUR, the top cap I don't know and what next?

I should get special tools manufactured otherwise the fork cannot be serviced without damages. It is ridiculous. I am considering of selling my X-Fusion fork and buying a rigid fork instead.

My untouched rock shox's nut is 23.9mm. Is the lunar wrench manufactured to fit undersized nuts better? I don't want to mark/damage it too.


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## Criss (Apr 20, 2016)

freddy01 said:


> If I understand well, you need to rebuild the bushings in the legs. I am not a professional, but in my personal opinion it is something you shouldn't do at home (even with proper tools). If I were you I would send the fork to the factory for this maintenance.


Hi Freddy, I agree with you, thats why I don't want to rebuild the bushings by myself. What I want to do is to send the fork WITH the bushing kit to an official X-Fusion service center here since they don't have it in stock.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

How responsive has Xfusion been recently? My lbs had trouble getting ahold of someone for CSU replacement. I emailed service apartment about sending it in and waiting to hear back...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## boardjnky4 (Nov 20, 2014)

Just call and leave a message. They called me back in a few hours when I called them 2 weeks ago.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

boardjnky4 said:


> Just call and leave a message. They called me back in a few hours when I called them 2 weeks ago.


They got back with me today which is fine.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Hi guys,

so far i though my Sweep RL2 work fine till yesterday trip. On high speed trails it hit ma hand so much... Im 75kg, 60psi, SAG 20% and 30ml in air chamber (to prevent bottom out at drops). Tried slow and fast rebound, no differencies. Im afraid that high speed compression is too high. Could it be true?


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## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

I bought my Velvet RL2 brand new. It was stuck down so hard that I believed it was wrong that I couldn't get it moving. I has always been a problem that it sticks down and it needs to be pushed hard to get it moving. The fork has moved roughly (e.g. no small bump sensitivity at all and slow reaction) because of the same problem all the time.

Under warranty, I got it serviced by the authorised service but they didn't even touch the air chamber (only replaced the oil in the legs).

When I disassembled the air chamber I could pull out the assembly with an extremely high force (it didn't even want to start moving). It is the piston head (with the double o-ring) that sticks so tightly into the tube. There was a plenty of grease on it, factory clean. The grease was dried up on the wall of the tube which I cleaned out, re-greased the piston and assembled the fork (without putting oil into the air chamber). Now it is 50% better but still very bad.

I thought I could use Fox float fluid in the air chamber which is specifically for the purpose. Has anyone tired that already?

I am also considering to order a new air assembly but I am afraid I won't be able to get a rid of the problem. Maybe the diameter of the tube is smaller than it should be or the double o-ring is too tight (e.g. wrong design).


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

imo give it some time to break down


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## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

nikon255 said:


> imo give it some time to break down


If 3 years was not enough, it will never break down. I just lived together with the problem but I was never happy with my Velvet RL2. As I searched it I am not the only one with this problem. Here someone suggested to use the Fox Float Fluid to remedy it.

(The original post suggests to use the same Torco Medium oil in the air chamber which is in the legs. And I can confirm there was oil in the air chamber by the factory setup in my fork too. I think the Torco Medium is not a good idea to put it in the air chamber. Or is it?)


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

nikon255 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> so far i though my Sweep RL2 work fine till yesterday trip. On high speed trails it hit ma hand so much... Im 75kg, 60psi, SAG 20% and 30ml in air chamber (to prevent bottom out at drops). Tried slow and fast rebound, no differencies. Im afraid that high speed compression is too high. Could it be true?


Were you riding somewhere different or going faster than usual?

There are instructions for softening the main compression shim stack back a few pages which is worth doing IMO.

You also might have air pressure in your damper that can prevent getting full travel and make it harsh.

Or maybe you're just finding the limits of the RL2 damper and you should upgrade to the Roughcut damper.


----------



## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

First time in mountains, much faster in different terrain. .Im not sure its too high fast compression or just ending stroke cuz of too little of low compression. When I close the fork in hands feel like it touch those 2 rubber ring in lowers. Just solid stop, doesnt feel like air in damper or too much of oil. Maybe its time for Pike/Lyrik cuz Polish distributor of X-Fusion sucks all the way  HLR is the item that I cant have...

Edit: during last lowers service I closed damper with hands, so everything is fine.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Air in the damper absolutely feels like you're hitting the bottom out bumper. I lost about 10mm of travel over about two years until I opened the damper top cap and let the pressure out.


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## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

lazarus2405 said:


> I bought whatever Home Depot's house brand was (Husky?), and it was a good snug fit.
> 
> You might consider buying a specific fork top cap wrench instead. They're a lot less expensive than I thought. Lunar Bike Tools
> 
> Edit: The downside being that you can't tighten them with a torque wrench. You'd be going by feel.





ac1000 said:


> I bought the lunar bike tools wrenches and they don't fit the top cap well on my xfusion Sweep.
> 
> My ground down Wilmar 6 point 28mm socket does the job perfectly.
> Its a tool that a home mechanic doesn't use very often but it makes the job much easier and you don't f-up your top caps.


Just my feedback. The Lunar Bike Tools arrived super fast from the US. It is blocked by the black painted part before it could fully sit on the nuts (on both sides) therefore it is totally useless. Moreover, it just fits only on the damper side (but very tight) and it is simply too tight on the air spring side (where one of the sides of my nut is 28.06mm while the tool is exactly 28mm wide inside). I ordered a 24mm one too that fits my Rock Shox perfectly.


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## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

Have you heard about Pure Slick Fluid? Having a conversation with X-Fusion and they state it would be the only good thing to use on the top of the air piston (in addition to Slick Honey). The only problem is that to import it from the US would cost over $50. I ordered Fox Float Fluid but X-Fusion states it is no good (without any explanation). In the original Post I can see Fox Float Fluid is also recommended. Do you have any experience with it? Can it do any harm if I try it?


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

well, I guess my bad for assuming float fluid or torco rff in the air chamber would be fine, never heard of it being "bad" for any air chamber...maybe its not compatible with their seal?
Ive been using torco rff medium in there, since i have a giant container of it. Havent had any problems that i know of.
Edit: just read this on their site: "Currently, most of the service documents suggest using 7.5 suspension fluid as a lubricating fluid, but one of the biggest performance improvements to an X-Fusion suspension fork can be make by simply adding our custom formulated Pure Slick fluid to both the top of the air piston, on the wiper seal foam rings, and into the lower legs."

So, apparently this means torco rff medium is fine and wont hurt anything, since they used to say to use it, but pure slick is the best. ill get some next time i service it.


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

The problem with the pure slick fluid is they only sell it in tiny little relatively expensive bottles. Id buy it if i could buy a liter at a fair price.


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## borabora (Feb 16, 2011)

I used Pure Slick last time I serviced my x-fusion fork. X-fusion claims that it reduces stiction and improves small bump compliance. That seemed to be true immediately after servicing since my fork felt a bit more plush. Of course, I always get that feeling immediately after a fork or shock is serviced. Since I still have some Pure Slick left, I'll use it for service until I run out then I'll switch to Torco. 

I recently serviced a Fox Talas (different bike) and was too lazy too pick up Fox fluids so I used Torco medium. Fork felt fantastic. A bit softer that before requiring maybe an extra 5-8 psi but otherwise great. Maybe if I were a more advanced rider I could feel some inadequacies in the damping but I can't. YMMV.


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## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

Thank you for all your answers.

I have RedLine oils, I think it is much better than the Torco because of the very high viscosity index. ExtraLight: Vis @ 40°C = 8.6 cSt, LightWeight: 16 cSt, Medium: 32 cSt, HeavyWeight: 69 cSt. I don't know the parameters of the Fox Float Fluid (it will hopefully be in my hands on Monday). From this collection which one would you put on the top of the air piston?

I asked X-Fusion, they advised not to use RedLine there because Slick Honey alone is even better. And they advised not to use Fox Float Fluid either. No explanation. Maybe the Pure Slick Fluid is not bad but it isn't worth to pay $50 for it with the transport and import costs.


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

freddy01 said:


> Thank you for all your answers.
> 
> I have RedLine oils, I think it is much better than the Torco because of the very high viscosity index. ExtraLight: Vis @ 40°C = 8.6 cSt, LightWeight: 16 cSt, Medium: 32 cSt, HeavyWeight: 69 cSt. I don't know the parameters of the Fox Float Fluid (it will hopefully be in my hands on Monday). From this collection which one would you put on the top of the air piston?
> 
> I asked X-Fusion, they advised not to use RedLine there because Slick Honey alone is even better. And they advised not to use Fox Float Fluid either. No explanation. Maybe the Pure Slick Fluid is not bad but it isn't worth to pay $50 for it with the transport and import costs.


They said to use slick honey not just on the air piston seal but also on top? How much?


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## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

dwyooaj said:


> well, I guess my bad for assuming float fluid or torco rff in the air chamber would be fine, never heard of it being "bad" for any air chamber...maybe its not compatible with their seal?
> Ive been using torco rff medium in there, since i have a giant container of it. Havent had any problems that i know of.
> Edit: just read this on their site: "Currently, most of the service documents suggest using 7.5 suspension fluid as a lubricating fluid, but one of the biggest performance improvements to an X-Fusion suspension fork can be make by simply adding our custom formulated Pure Slick fluid to both the top of the air piston, on the wiper seal foam rings, and into the lower legs."
> 
> So, apparently this means torco rff medium is fine and wont hurt anything, since they used to say to use it, but pure slick is the best. ill get some next time i service it.


7.5 wt is too wide, the same viscosity can be 5wt for one and 10wt for another manufacturer. Torco Medium's viscosity is 31.82 cSt @ 40°C. Redline 10wt (32 cSt @ 40°C) is the best match from my oils. But I don't understand why they recommend the same oil in the legs and in the air piston's stanchion tube. My Rock Shox relevation needs PM600 Military grease (I have it too) but it doesn't need any fluid in addition to that and it feels super plush. My X-Fusion Velvet RL2 not only sticks down and needs to be pushed hard to get it start moving but it moves very roughly (like no sensitivity at all).

To be honest I am confused why any fluid is needed in the air piston's stanchion tube. It may solve the Slick Honey and they both can go into the bottom. I took my previous Rock Shox Reba fork to a bike shop for service, they used a wrong grease / fluid and shortly the fork remained compressed and could not extend until diassembly. So if any fluid is used, it must match with the grease.



ac1000 said:


> They said to use slick honey not just on the air piston seal but also on top? How much?


Unfortunately they didn't detail anything despite I kept trying to "extract" some information from them. I think how they mean it is not to use Redline (or Fox Float Fluid) on the top side of the stanchion tube (above the piston's head) just leave it with Slick Honey alone (but according to them it is not recommended use just better than to add the above mentioned fluids). I know from their service manuals and videos that the air piston's head needs to be greased before assembly. In my personal opinion it is pointless to add extra grease on the top side, it won't do anything.

After this conversation I had the feeling if I don't use any lube it will do a harm and if I use anything else than Pure Slick Fluid it will do a harm too...


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## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

dwyooaj said:


> So, apparently this means torco rff medium is fine and wont hurt anything, since they used to say to use it, but pure slick is the best. ill get some next time i service it.





borabora said:


> I used Pure Slick last time I serviced my x-fusion fork.


Have you put Slick Honey on the air piston's head first then you added the Torco Medium and Pure Slick Fluid on the top side of the tube?

I wonder if I used Fox Float Fluid (which must be quite thick comparing to a ~ 7.5wt oil) it should be better used alone without any grease on the air piston's head. It is an o-ring grease after all, and Fox Shoxs use it alone (no grease used). In my Fox shox it seems to be very durable.


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## borabora (Feb 16, 2011)

freddy01 said:


> Have you put Slick Honey on the air piston's head first then you added the Torco Medium and Pure Slick Fluid on the top side of the tube?
> 
> I wonder if I used Fox Float Fluid (which must be quite thick comparing to a ~ 7.5wt oil) it should be better used alone without any grease on the air piston's head. It is an o-ring grease after all, and Fox Shoxs use it alone (no grease used). In my Fox shox it seems to be very durable.


Yes, slick honey on piston, spring, o-rings and pure slick on foam rings and seals and extra poured in.


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## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

borabora said:


> Yes, slick honey on piston, spring, o-rings and pure slick on foam rings and seals and extra poured in.


I may not be clear with my question, I am only interested in the air spring's stanchion tube at the moment. So you used Slick Honey on the piston, spring, o-rings. Have you added Pure Slick Fluid on the top of the air piston (in other words in the top side of the stanchion tube above the air piston) afterwards? (You can add it without removing the legs by removing the pressure, then removing the valve core or the top cap completely.) I am sure they intend to use the Pure Slick Fluid there but I am not sure if the Slick Honey is still needed on the air piston's head and its o-ring(s) as the fluid can solve it and wash it which may accumulate in the bottom of the stanchion tube.


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## freddy01 (Nov 20, 2013)

Have you heard about Unior Tool's flat socket for suspension service?

I would be interested in the exact internal sizes before ordering. It makes a huge difference if 28.0, 28.1 or greater. Unfortunately it seems not to be used widely so I could not find any review on the internet about it.

The second option is still the Abbey sockets for a horrible amount of money but that would work for sure.


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## Ricanfred (Jun 4, 2015)

Noticed my Slide started leaking oil from the air-side lower-leg nut after loosing "plushness" during a race today and fork started doing a higher-pitch/binding sound at fast compression. I'm assuming I've lost a considerable amount of oil and foam ring is dry. I did change the o-ring when I serviced it a few months ago. If I recall correctly, I torqued to spec; which I thought felt not as tight as it should. Thoughts?


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## Boom King (Jun 5, 2016)

Hey all,

Can anyone tell me if the Rough Cut dampers are available separately in the US yet? If so, where is the best place to purchase?

Cheers.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Boom King said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Can anyone tell me if the Rough Cut dampers are available separately in the US yet? If so, where is the best place to purchase?
> 
> Cheers.


Last I saw bikeman had them in stock


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

Boom King said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Can anyone tell me if the Rough Cut dampers are available separately in the US yet? If so, where is the best place to purchase?
> 
> Cheers.


Got mine directly from xfusion. $200


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## Boom King (Jun 5, 2016)

ac1000 said:


> Got mine directly from xfusion. $200


Cheers, thought it might have been a little less over your way but the price is roughly the same over here in Australia.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Boom King said:


> Cheers, thought it might have been a little less over your way but the price is roughly the same over here in Australia.


Where are you getting it from in Australia. I'm new to xfusion and live in Sydney.


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## Boom King (Jun 5, 2016)

niva1989 said:


> Where are you getting it from in Australia. I'm new to xfusion and live in Sydney.


Diymtb.com.au

Duncan is the local distro.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Boom King said:


> Diymtb.com.au
> 
> Duncan is the local distro.


Ok. Didn't think they sold direct. Don't have a local shop I'd like to buy through.Will give them a call.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Bought mine directly from them too. They are an awesome company and work with you. They very willing to help you with the technical questions. They also respond well to email in my experience.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

niva1989 said:


> Ok. Didn't think they sold direct. Don't have a local shop I'd like to buy through.Will give them a call.


When I bought a Velvet from Duncan he sold direct to me but only because he didn't already deal with any of the shops in my area.


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## RetroGrouchNJ (Jan 28, 2011)

I have little tech to add. I'm changing a new old stock Velvet RL2 w/ QR15 and remote from 650B to 26 and travel from 100mm to 120mm. My fork appears to differ from most most of the photos I have seen so far.

What is this blue o-ring that fell out/off when I removed the lowers? I have no idea where it goes so I draped it over a stanchion for a photo. It is a loose fit on the stanchion


A c-clip at the bottom of the air spring rod keeps the spacer on rather than a footnut and plate as shown on the X-Fusion PDF - https://www.xfusionshox.com/images/pdf/Velvet650B_convertLR.pdf. I don't anticipate having a problem removing and reinstalling that clip. I assume I should keep the thinner spacer and remove the thicker tapered spacer to convert back to 26 inch. The thinner spacer has a shallow counterbore on the clip side. I imagine the plastic spacer is easier on the threaded plate at the bottom of the stanchion when the fork bottoms out.


Both nuts at the bottom are 13mm hex, not 11mm and 12mm.


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## RetroGrouchNJ (Jan 28, 2011)

More Velvet RL2 guts

My pin spanner did not fit the air spring base plate so I made something with a scrap of aluminum and some 4-40 hardware.





The base plate came out easily as did the air spring rod. There is another c clip at the top of the spring and an unused groove above the clip. It looks like there is heat shrink tubing over each end of the spring.



I will cut the black sleeving off the spring to see how many grooves are available.


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## RetroGrouchNJ (Jan 28, 2011)

Any idea what travel options are for these grooves when used with 26 inch wheels? I stupidly didn't check before disassembling. Any idea what year fork this is? Is this an OE fork rather than a leftover retail fork?










A - tapered spacer near the bottom, I'm assuming this is the 650B spacer (when fork bottoms), removing should give another 10mm travel for 26 inch wheels
B - base plate, appears to be plastic
C - C shaped spacer, right next to 
D - C-clip, sets travel depending on which groove is used
E - piece of heat shrink tubing that kept the spring and C shaped spacer together, there is another piece at the bottom of the spring as well


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

RetroGrouchNJ said:


> Any idea what travel options are for these grooves when used with 26 inch wheels? I stupidly didn't check before disassembling. Any idea what year fork this is? Is this an OE fork rather than a leftover retail fork?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe on of the Xfusion documents mentions that some OEM forks have C clips instead of pins to set travel.

It shouldn't be hard to figure out what travel options there are. I don't think your picture covers the air piston, but taking out the spacer by the piston should increase the travel by the thickness of that spacer.
I think that's what you are saying is there.
Moving the C-clip further down will reduce the travel by that amount.

If you can't figure it out just call Xfusion they will take care of you.


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## RetroGrouchNJ (Jan 28, 2011)

X-Fusion confirmed some details for me. In this fork configuration, the grooves are 80mm/100mm/120mm/140mm travel (L to R in my photo). The tapered spacer at A is to limit full bump 10mm for 650B. The C shaped spacer at C allows for 10mm increments in travel and can be clipped in or removed as needed. So, in the factory configuration shown, 120mm groove - 10mm C spacer - 10mm bump stop spacer = 100mm 650B fork as was claimed by the seller. Removing the 650B bump stop and the 10mm C spacer gives me the desired 120mm for 26 inch. My assumptions were confirmed.
EDIT: The blue o-ring is a travel indicator. My best guess is that the factory threw on an o-ring from a 34mm fork which would be loose on the 32mm stanchion. I'll see if I can find a smaller o-ring in the shop.

There are a bunch of configurations for these forks and the travel changed over time. Configuration management is a PITA (part of my day job) and documenting it is a miserable task for the service and parts departments. I can't blame a small outfit for not having a full manual for every possible config over time. Their rapid e-mail response goes a long way to make up for that. If the fork performs as expected, I'll keep their products in mind the next time I'm shopping.


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## Mainturion (Dec 21, 2010)

Anyone interested in buying my RoughCut HLR damper? It was used in my Sweep for one ride only. 
It turned out I like to turn the on/off knob.
Asking $250 + shipping.


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## Boom King (Jun 5, 2016)

Mainturion said:


> Anyone interested in buying my RoughCut HLR damper? It was used in my Sweep for one ride only.
> It turned out I like to turn the on/off knob.
> Asking $250 + shipping.


Where are you?


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## Mainturion (Dec 21, 2010)

Boom King said:


> Where are you?


I live in the Netherlands.


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## Boom King (Jun 5, 2016)

Mainturion said:


> I live in the Netherlands.


$250 in what currency?


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## Mainturion (Dec 21, 2010)

$250 in US dollars, shippings costs depend on shipping destination


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## Boom King (Jun 5, 2016)

Mainturion said:


> $250 in US dollars, shippings costs depend on shipping destination





ac1000 said:


> Got mine directly from xfusion. $200


Glws.


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## Mainturion (Dec 21, 2010)

Boom King said:


> Glws.


$200 is incredibly sharp and way less than I paid at my LBS (who imports X-Fusion to the Netherlands where I live).


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## Boom King (Jun 5, 2016)

Mainturion said:


> $200 is incredibly sharp and way less than I paid at my LBS (who imports X-Fusion to the Netherlands where I live).


Looks like you got a bad deal my friend. There are a few places in the USA that have them for $200.

I can buy a brand new HLR damper here in Australia for the equivalent of $220 US and that's taking into account the poor value of the Australian Peso.


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## TheRealMcCoy (Jun 26, 2016)

So I have X-Fusion Slant RL2 and it has been giving me issues this last week. I have lost all control from the oil side of the fork, resulting in no response from compression or rebound adjustment. Because the rebound adjustment is not working, the for it "topping out" when I pull up on the bars to jump or go off a drop. I took it to a shop and they said that there is probably an issue with the cartridge but couldn't tell me more without taking it apart which they were booked full for the next week. I am considering working on it myself but I'm not sure what I should be looking for. If you have any other thoughts of what the issue might be or ways to fix it, I would love the input.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

TheRealMcCoy said:


> ...have lost all control from the oil side of the fork, resulting in no response from compression or rebound adjustment.


That sounds like insufficient oil in the damper, possibly it's leaked into the lowers or (less likely because you'd notice) out the top.

If you take off the lockout knob and unscrew the damper top cap (*28mm* open-ended spanner works for me) you should see damper fluid almost up to the top.

Alternatively you can take off the lowers and verify that only ~15ml is in the damper side.

The service kit for RL2 dampers is ~$50 from DIYMTB.com.au


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## TheRealMcCoy (Jun 26, 2016)

Great! Thanks for the help


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

*RL2 Damper topcap blew up!*

Right then....been reading the thread from the start and got some really good info here.

Managed to blow up the top of my RL2 damper.
Seen a few others in this thread with the same issue, where the top of the damper shears where it bolts up in the topcap.

Unfortunately unlike the info I've read here, XFusion have been way less than helpful here in the UK.
Quoted me £100 to send it in for a full service, but the forks aren't worth that, so pointless.
They wouldn't sell me just the compression assembly or a damper, and Xfusion USA wouldn't deal with me direct either. Boo! 

So.... 
I stripped it all down, and removed the broken part of the compression damper assembly from the top bolt.
There was ~5mm of the compression damper rod before it went to the larger ID, and there was about 10mm of internal thread left inside.
I'm not fussed about the lockout, so didn't mind if bolting it up that way stopped the adjuster working, as that blew off anyway.
I just bolted the topcap bolt back to the top of the compression rod, and torqued it tight. There is an oring that tries to seal the compression rod in the topcap. But mine was too short to seal with that, so I put a couple of drops of penetrating loctite on the topcap\compression rod assembly and left it inverted for 2days to fully penetrate and cure off.
Happy to say this has given me a working damper back! Woohoo!

Will just have to see if the topcap stays sealed enough during deep stroke pressure spikes, but it's showing good signs .

I also wanted to nosey @ the compression stacks whilst I was in there, as I might as well make it work better without the lockout if I can.
The midvalve was being exceptionally stubborn, and didn't want to budge, so skipped that for the time being.

To the main high speed stack as I found it...
2x big shim 18mm
1x ring shim (0.2mm 16mm id,18mm od)
1x Ring Seat shim 16mm od)
3x big shim 18mm
2x Mid shim 14mm
2x Base Shim 12mm

**I need to measure the shims properly, so the above sizes are being done from memory, so might be slightly off, but you should get the idea**
The ring shim with the thinner seat shim inside it basically adds 0.1mm of preaload to the entire stack. This gives the threshold feel when the lockout is on.
The same thing as Fox did in their old Vanilla ProPedal stacks.

I changed it to a much more active dual stage stack with no preload shim:
1x big shim 18mm - 1st stage lowspeed stack
1x ring seat shim 16mm od -1st stage lowspeed stack
1x Mid shim 14mm - 1st stage transition shim
3x big shim 18mm - 2nd stage high speed stack
2x Mid shim 16mm - 2nd stage high speed stack
2x Base Shim 12mm - Stack base clamp shim
1x big shim 18mm - Takes it away from damping duties, but keeps total stack height the same

Refilled with RockOil SVI 5wt (15.4 cST 40deg).

This is only my first attempt, but it feels pretty good.
Super active, and will just have to see how controlled it feels out on the trail. 
I do have a feeling it might be a little divey on low speed with such a big change in the low speed stack configuration, but lets wait n see. 
If it is I'll just take the last big shim and put it up the front of the 1st stage. 
If that's still too divey I'll drop the 1st stage to 2big,and the 16mm as the transition, and put the 14mm shim in to support the 2nd stage more.
I've got loads of other shims in my suspension tuning kits, so recon it'll be an evolving project for a while yet. 

All in all a pretty easy damper to work with 

P.s. Yes, before anyone turns round and ridicules me saying I'm going to kill myself doing this fix..... I've done much worse before 
Vivid Air Stuck Down fix


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## mrm1 (Apr 22, 2007)

Will Buzzy's Shock Nectar work in the RL2? What weight? I have some laying around unopened in the shop and trying to avoid purchasing something else.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

mrm1 said:


> Will Buzzy's Shock Nectar work in the RL2? What weight? I have some laying around unopened in the shop and trying to avoid purchasing something else.


Do you mean for damper oil? you cant go by the manufacturers stated weight but by the published cst viscosity number. torco rsf lite cst: [email protected], [email protected]
buzzys: 4.5 and 16, respectively. Pretty dang close, should be fine but im not 100% sure.


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## mrm1 (Apr 22, 2007)

For Oil Bath. I think these are the numbers I can find. I have red or purple. Cant remember

COLOR/ WEIGHT/ [email protected]/ [email protected]
purple/ 5/ 16/ 4.5
red/ 7/ 24/ 5
gold/ 10/ 32/ 5.5


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

rsf med cst is 32 and 10, respectively. the buzzys is a bit thinner but for oil bath in lowers i dont think exact viscosity is critical so could be fine, but i dont know for sure. The gold would be better. Ask xfusion.


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

Has anyone tried running a Nobby Nic 2.8" tire in a Sweep? If so how many mm clearance on either side of the stanchions and from the crown? I would like to try but don't want to waste money. Also anyone try fitting one on the back of a Trance 27.5?


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## Ricanfred (Jun 4, 2015)

noose said:


> Has anyone tried running a Nobby Nic 2.8" tire in a Sweep? If so how many mm clearance on either side of the stanchions and from the crown? I would like to try but don't want to waste money. Also anyone try fitting one on the back of a Trance 27.5?


http://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/27-5-fork-compatibility-980555-5.html


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

Ricanfred said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/27-5-fork-compatibility-980555-5.html


Thanks.


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## wally40 (Jul 20, 2016)

Hey guys. Great thread.
This is my first post on MTBR.

I have viewed this thread extensively and just completed a service on my 2014 Sweep RL2.

Being in South Africa I do not have access to the damper removal tool and have had to make my own. I took 20 mm nylon rod, 100mm long and machined the 1 end down to 14 mm (20mm in length). I then drilled a 7mm hole, 25 mm deep into the same end.

Place the tool over the shaft and SLOWLY turn it so that the shaft starts to tap a thread into the hole. The nylon is soft enough to allow the thread of the shaft to cut it's own thread. Screw it all the way to the base of the lower then back off a turn or so. You can now pound the back of the nylon to un-seat the shaft. To re-seat the shaft you now have a thread in the tool which can pull the shaft through. Not sure how long it will last but it was cheap and easy to make.














Consistency does not seem to be XF strong suit. I opened my mid-valve to play around with the shim stack and found only 2 shims: a 10 and a 8 mm.. Reading this thread I see there are varying amounts of shims. Can anyone explain this?

Once again, great thread. I would have had no hope of getting the service right without it!


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

wally40 said:


> Consistency does not seem to be XF strong suit. I opened my mid-valve to play around with the shim stack and found only 2 shims: a 10 and a 8 mm.. Reading this thread I see there are varying amounts of shims. Can anyone explain this?


I'd guess that it's running changes in an attempt to reduce costs while keeping the same damping.

IMO it's not worth messing with the mid-valve/low-speed stack unless you're heavier than most and are going to add shims to firm it up a bit. The RL2 damper has decent low-speed compression but is a bit to stiff in high-speed for lots of people. Two-One's high-speed mod reduces the pressure required to activate the high-speed circuit which is what a lot of people who say the damping is a bit too firm will probably want.

Softening the mid-valve/low-speed stack in my Velvet (by re-arranging the existing shims) made a big difference in the shed/parking lot test and it felt ok until I was on anything even a little bit steep where the fork would dive and be basically unrideable.

Reducing preload on the high-speed stack made a more subtle difference but resulted in more control as braking bumps and roots etc are absorbed much more effectively with less force transferred to my hands/arms.


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## chize (Jun 13, 2011)

I did a seals and damper oil change a couple weeks ago and since then something is not quite right with my fork (trace rl2). i've noticed the past couple rides that i haven't been getting close to full travel, so let all the air out and used zip ties to let air out from the lowers past the seals, however even with no air the fork wouldn't go down the last 30mm of travel. Any ideas? would too much oil in the damper cause this?


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## RicB (Apr 4, 2007)

Yes it sounds like your damper is overfilled. I'll bet you didn't cycle the damper rod when pouring out the old oil? 

Filled correctly, the oil in the RL2 should just tough the snap ring you can see when peering down from the top.

to be honest the easiest way to fix this is let all air out, loosen damper top cap, compress fork fully, wipe up the oil that's oozed out of the top


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## chize (Jun 13, 2011)

RicB- I did remember to cycle the damper rod but I measured out the oil using a bleed syringe which is probably not the most accurate method. Thanks for the idea for the easy fix, i'll try that and see how it goes


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## mrm1 (Apr 22, 2007)

This thread gave me what I needed to to adjust the travel of my sweep ... Thanks !!

Don't know if this was already mentioned (did not see it), but I picked up this little Damper Removal Tool on Ebay for $13 and it worked perfectly.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

mrm1 said:


> Don't know if this was already mentioned (did not see it), but I picked up this little Damper Removal Tool on Ebay for $13 and it worked perfectly.


Another seller on ebay has the damper tool for 8.83 shipped. I have not yet used it, but it feels like it will do the job. That being said, I've adjusted travel a couple of times without a damper removal tool. You just have to be careful.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

RicB said:


> to be honest the easiest way to fix this is let all air out, loosen damper top cap, compress fork fully, wipe up the oil that's oozed out of the top


I have been using this method of getting the oil level "right" but I think it results in the oil level being a lot higher than just covering the snap ring. There's maybe 60mm between the snap ring and the bottom of the damper top cap. If I submerge the snap ring then fully depress the fork the oil comes up to ~20mm below the damper top cap, not right up to it.

Haven't ridden properly yet with the slightly lower oil volume so maybe I'm wrong but I think I've been over-filling my damper for a year or so.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

PhillipJ said:


> I have been using this method of getting the oil level "right" but I think it results in the oil level being a lot higher than just covering the snap ring. There's maybe 60mm between the snap ring and the bottom of the damper top cap. If I submerge the snap ring then fully depress the fork the oil comes up to ~20mm below the damper top cap, not right up to it.
> 
> Haven't ridden properly yet with the slightly lower oil volume so maybe I'm wrong but I think I've been over-filling my damper for a year or so.


Thats right there still needs to be air space above the oil at full compression, as air is not infinitely compressible. Oil level at snap ring with damper extended is correct.


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## ecodoug (Oct 13, 2009)

Does anyone know a top-secret source for 32mm seals, or an opinion on the other brands of aftermarket seals (Enduro, SKF, Fox)? I just want to do a seal & oil service on my Velvet.

They were in stock at BTI a month ago when I my LBS said they ordered them, but... long story. Nothing turning up in the usual internet places. Thanks.


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## Boom King (Jun 5, 2016)

ecodoug said:


> Does anyone know a top-secret source for 32mm seals, or an opinion on the other brands of aftermarket seals (Enduro, SKF, Fox)? I just want to do a seal & oil service on my Velvet.
> 
> They were in stock at BTI a month ago when I my LBS said they ordered them, but... long story. Nothing turning up in the usual internet places. Thanks.


Racing Bros seals are very good.


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## ecodoug (Oct 13, 2009)

Boom King said:


> Racing Bros seals are very good.


Huh, didn't know about those. Thanks!


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## V8Interceptor (Aug 24, 2014)

I'm an absolute idiot or just plan lazy on how to setup suspension. I know it's personal preference, but I'm trying to find the sweet spot in the rebound. Website states there's 16 clicks for rebound, but looks to be 34. What do you guys like for rebound settings?


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

V8Interceptor said:


> I'm an absolute idiot or just plan lazy on how to setup suspension. I know it's personal preference, but I'm trying to find the sweet spot in the rebound. Website states there's 16 clicks for rebound, but looks to be 34. What do you guys like for rebound settings?


Pointers that i use:
Too fast feels like in corners the front never feels planted and will buck you. This is especially true for bumpy corners. You feel like you cant trust the front.
Too slow: going over multiple bumps in rough terrain feels harsh. Reduce until this feels better.

Parking lot tests can get you close but i find these two pointers to give you a useful upper and lower bound.


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

Anyone know if the old style remote lockout is still available anywhere. I have started getting involved in endurance racing on my 130mm bike and I have the slant fork. I love the fork and would like to throw a remote lockout on it. I know someone with the velvet with the original style remote lock and really like the ergonomics of it. 

Or if you have the newer style lockout what do you think of it. 

Thanks for any info.


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

Had mine serviced at my LBS this week because of hydrolock. 

It's all betterer now. 😎


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

I just got my Slide 29 back from servicing. Man what a difference. Apparently I'm not nearly as good at maintaining stuff as I thought, because it honestly feels like a different fork now.

Back story: At some point, the front of my bike started making a rattle. There are no smooth trails in Phoenix, especially after summer monsoons, so it's tough to isolate noises.
I made a thread here on MTBR. 
I swore it was a bad headset. So I replaced it. rattle still there. 
Then maybe I thought it was just brake lines banging. I cushioned everything that touched. Like literally with bubble wrap and velcro and foam. Rattle still there. 
I borrowed a Bowie Pro rigid fork to remove the entire fork from the equation. Rattle *seemed* to be gone.

I called X-Fusion and over about 4 calls they asked me to check the brakes, and pads, the hub, The CSU, and eventually disassemble the fork and look for "loose stuff". One of the techs (Clark?) suggested I look at the top out spring. Sure enough, the spring wasn't seated (I guess?) and the rubber boot thing was wrecked. The suggested that I get some big shrink wrap and cover it. (suggesting a user fix and not "Send it in" is amazing, IMO)

I asked on a whim, "What would the cost be to just send it in and have you do a full service, fix the spring, and oh, I've read on the internet you can/will tune the damper so it's not a lockout, but a descendable 'platform'. Can you do that?"
"Sure we can." they said. "tell ya what, here's your RA#, we'll charge for a custom tune and since it's apart, we'll just fix the spring and do oil and grease since it's apart. Probably looking at $60."

One week later, they charged me $60, plus $15 to ship it back, It's got all new internal seals, the dust wipers were checked to be in good condition, the rattle is gone, the lockout is a firm platform that will give with a bunny hop/impact but not bob with standing pedaling, and the fork is smoother than ever. 
It's not quite my dream fork, performance-wise, but it works well, it's easy enough to work on, and I'll be damned if X-fusion doesn't have some amazing customer service.

One thing as a side note: I specifically discussed my desire for "improved small bump plushness" and was specifically told that because of the damper design, that isn't really changeable, but the lockout can be re-done. He said that a full factory service would probably improve the small-bump performance a fair bit. I didn't want to really get into the "Well, I read about people doing it on (this thread) MTBR with success, so you can too". All in all, it's not as plush as my old Float, or a Reba, but it's *much* better than it was before. I'll take it.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

I'm going to put Supergliss in the lowers of my Velvet next time its apart, that should make some kind of improvement to small bump sensitivity.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

ARandomBiker said:


> I just got my Slide 29 back from servicing. Man what a difference. Apparently I'm not nearly as good at maintaining stuff as I thought, because it honestly feels like a different fork now.
> 
> Back story: At some point, the front of my bike started making a rattle. There are no smooth trails in Phoenix, especially after summer monsoons, so it's tough to isolate noises.
> I made a thread here on MTBR.
> ...


Drop in a Roughcut damper. You won't be sorry......


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## Ricanfred (Jun 4, 2015)

^^are those available for 32mm stanchions?


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Ricanfred said:


> ^^are those available for 32mm stanchions?


No, 34 and 36 only.


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## Ricanfred (Jun 4, 2015)

PhillipJ said:


> No, 34 and 36 only.


Exactly....Slides are 32mm


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Sorry guys didn't check that Slides were 32mm. Just love my Roughcut and got a bit excited 😀


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## gibsonlespaulspecial (Dec 27, 2012)

I'm getting way too much stiction. Took the fork apart and it's obviously the main air seal in the air chamber. I can take out the air shaft, roll the seal in a tub of slick honey, put it back in the chamber, and can immediately feel the stiction without even screwing in the base plate or putting the lowers back on. Anybody else ever get this problem? Maybe I should order a new air shaft assembly from x fusion?


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

You can get an air spring seal kit for under 20 bucks. Might try that before the whole piston assembly. Do you have oil above the piston? Also, are you sure its not just the wipers? My fork always felt better right after cleaning and lubing the wipers.


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## gibsonlespaulspecial (Dec 27, 2012)

Yes I put some oil in the air chamber, and I don't even have the lowers on so the wipers are out of the equation. You can feel the stiction as soon as the air spring seal goes in the chamber.


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## lazarus2405 (Jul 16, 2011)

I've had this problem. An air spring seal kit fixed it, and made a marvelous difference in stiction when reassembling and in ride quality of the overall fork. I replace the main seal annually now as part of my winter rebuild.


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## gibsonlespaulspecial (Dec 27, 2012)

Thanks, i'll give that a shot.


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## gibsonlespaulspecial (Dec 27, 2012)

So I just got the air spring rebuild kit, and I'm not sure what all the little parts are for. There are a few small o-rings but I'm more concerned about what the large o-ring is for. I'm pretty sure the large gasket goes on the air seal. Does anyone know where the large o-ring goes?


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Sag indicator on the upper stanchion?

If it's too big to fit inside, then it must go outside. should measure just under 32mm if it is.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

might go under top cap?


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Good call on the top air cap. Is the o-ring thin or fat(ish)?


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## gibsonlespaulspecial (Dec 27, 2012)

It's about 30mm, too small for the sag indicator. Maybe it goes on the base plate? There's no o-ring on the base plate now, but back at the beginning of this thread it looks like there's one in the op's picture.


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## gibsonlespaulspecial (Dec 27, 2012)

Just saw x-fusions travel adjust video, pretty clear that there is no o-ring on the base plate so it probably is the sag indicator, just needs to be stretched out.


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## B1ackR00m (Dec 31, 2016)

how much to pour oil into the damper and the fork legs? Also in the air chamber?

I have Slant RL2 Air 150mm


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I believe its 15 ml all around, though the air chamber can be bumped up to 30 or even 40 if you want a more progressive spring.


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

GuitsBoy said:


> I believe its 15 ml all around, though the air chamber can be bumped up to 30 or even 40 if you want a more progressive spring.


15 in the legs yes, but you don't have to put so much on top of the air spring.
You can put a minimal amount like 5ml in there and only put more if you need to tune the air spring to be more progressive.
More oil than you need will make it real hard to use the last bit of your travel.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

My Sweep RL2 was delivered with about 15ml in the air chamber, as best I could measure.


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## B1ackR00m (Dec 31, 2016)

http://www.62.zippyshare.com/v/V6A3fbvw/file.html


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

Hey guys I figure this is my only place for hope on this matter...
I got my girlfriend a brand new streat rl2 (New take off from a bike) however it has a super harsh top out at full extension. rebound seems to work properly (slow or fast relative to knob) and ive spent plenty of time inside a RS and Fox forks. When i dropped the lowers and unthreaded the air spring of the streat, I popped it out but noticed there was no rubber bumper at the top of the shaft. It was just a completely bare rod. Is this normal? could this be the cause of the top out? 

Before i opened it i tried the zip tie purge trick on both sides and reset air several times.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

There should be a negative coil spring on the air side. Did you see that? 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

When I pulled the spring out there was the shaft with the locking cap and a spring yes but no bumper at the tip.


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## croakies (Mar 4, 2011)

Hmm not following. 
https://fcdn.mtbr.com/attachments/s...l2-fork-service-tuning-thread-unnamed-35-.jpg

This picture here is what mine looks like. Is that what you're seeing?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

kikoraa said:


> When I pulled the spring out there was the shaft with the locking cap and a spring yes but no bumper at the tip.


I don't think they use a bumper. I have a trace with DLA and it doesn't run a bumper. I had to let every last bit of air out and fully compress fork. Once I reinflated the loud harsh metallic clunk disappeared. I didn't believe the guy at xfusion when he told me to do it but it worked. They were like this out of the box and I was ready to strip it down to see if it had a top out bumper. The xfusion tech told me there was no rubber top out bumper. It must build up an imbalance of air in the negative chamber and letting all of the air out reset it. I'm assuming that if they don't run a bumper on my fork then maybe yours doesn't either.

Reassemble it and I'm sure it will be ok.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

croakies said:


> Hmm not following.
> https://fcdn.mtbr.com/attachments/s...l2-fork-service-tuning-thread-unnamed-35-.jpg
> 
> This picture here is what mine looks like. Is that what you're seeing?
> ...


That's what I have except there's no top out bumper. Seriously.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

niva1989 said:


> I don't think they use a bumper. I have a trace with DLA and it doesn't run a bumper. I had to let every last bit of air out and fully compress fork. Once I reinflated the loud harsh metallic clunk disappeared. I didn't believe the guy at xfusion when he told me to do it but it worked. They were like this out of the box and I was ready to strip it down to see if it had a top out bumper. The xfusion tech told me there was no rubber top out bumper. It must build up an imbalance of air in the negative chamber and letting all of the air out reset it. I'm assuming that if they don't run a bumper on my fork then maybe yours doesn't either.
> 
> Reassemble it and I'm sure it will be ok.


I did this with a walk through on the phone with them. He told me to take out the air spring and make sure it's ok.

I removed spring and it looked fine besides missing a top out bumper.

Reinflated and still knocking at top out.

Furious. Brand new fork

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

kikoraa said:


> I did this with a walk through on the phone with them. He told me to take out the air spring and make sure it's ok.
> 
> I removed spring and it looked fine besides missing a top out bumper.
> 
> ...


Ok. DLA travel adjust must be different then.


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

kikoraa said:


> I did this with a walk through on the phone with them. He told me to take out the air spring and make sure it's ok.
> 
> I removed spring and it looked fine besides missing a top out bumper.
> 
> ...


What do you think the top out bumper is in the picture?
I believe that is the purpose of the little coil spring.
I think there is a little rubber piece on the inside of the screw cap on the air spring (the part you open with the pin spanner).
Are you missing that?
The fork will top out a bit harsh with way too little rebound damping in my experience.
Hope you get it sorted.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

lazarus2405 said:


> The usual stuff: You need a 1.5mm hex to remove the RL2 adjuster knobs, 2mm hex to install the RC HLR knobs, 12mm socket (I think? Might have been 13mm) for the foot nut, 28mm socket (ground down, 6-point) for the top caps, softblow hammer to unseat the bottom, torque wrench for said sockets to put it back together, and lube oil for the lowers.
> 
> There are two special bits, though.
> 
> ...


Lazarus,

There is a serrated washer in the assembly. I'm guessing it goes with the flat surface down and the serrated part towards the gold knob.

I'm using snap ring pliers too to tighten the assembly. Mine is a RCP, not an HLR if that makes any difference.

Thanks for any ideas


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## Apolonios (Mar 3, 2016)

I'm considering getting an RL2 Trace that I saw at Jenson at a good price. However the travel is listed at 130mm. 

On X-Fusion website it lists the trace as being able to be adjusted 100, 120 and 140.

I wonder if this is a special version or if it will still have the capability to be internally adjusted. 

Has anyone seen this configuration before??


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I bought an OEM Sweep from Jenson a year or two ago, and it was adjustable just like the retail versions.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

Even if it doesn't have extra holes in the air spring shaft and the negative spring support can't be repositioned, you can still reduce travel by puting spacers between it and the coil (shaft diameter is 9mm) to achieve the same effect of limiting spring extension

like these: P1010069.jpg Photo by saltracer | Photobucket
or these: https://ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb10972190/p5pb10972190.jpg


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Since its 130mm travel now, it probably has a 10mm spacer in there already, and is pinned at 140. Whats more, you can actually drill out the shaft if you really wanted a custom travel, or the shaft just came without the holes. But honestly, Id be very surprised if the holes weren't already there.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

...or use spacers and not have to use the arbor press or drill anything
much simpler


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## jurc (Mar 26, 2017)

Hello,

what type and size is thread on the bottom of damper?
I want to make the tool like "damper removal tool" and also repair some threads in the footnut.

Outter diameter of the thread is more than 8 mm, somewhere between 8 and 9mm. So according to this fact it is not metric thread. Pitch is something around 0,75mm.

Thank you for any help


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

it's not metric
I've had a POM tool made and tapped with M8x0.75 tap and it's not going on the damper shaft, too tight
it might be imperial threads, 5/16" 32tpi or something like that


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## bikebums (Jun 13, 2012)

Has anyone found a source for mid valve shims? Looking for the ones for a Sweep RL2.
Cheers, Ed


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## jurc (Mar 26, 2017)

I was looking for that but I dont have any idea for this. 
32 tpi is around 0,79... pitch.I found only 5/16 UNEF 32 - but major diameter is 7,9.. mm.
Measured major diameter of the thread rod is more than 8mm, still cant find correct thread tool.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

jurc said:


> I was looking for that but I dont have any idea for this.
> 32 tpi is around 0,79... pitch.I found only 5/16 UNEF 32 - but major diameter is 7,9.. mm.
> Measured major diameter of the thread rod is more than 8mm, still cant find correct thread tool.


I was looking at this as I have all the gear to make a tool but when I saw how cheap the tool was I just bought one as it wasn't worth the effort.

I can check the thread tomorrow but I do remember reading somewhere that a chainring nut fits.


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## chize (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm having a bit of a weird problem with pressure building up in the damper of my trace RL2 and was wondering if anyone else has run into the same issue or has any ideas. every few rides i stop getting full travel (even with all the air pressure out of the fork and zip ties in the lower legs to let pressure out) i can fix this but removing the lockout switch and unscrewing the damper topnut until i hear a hiss of air and then the fork works great. The service guy i spoke to at Xfusion thinks that I am riding the fork beyond its capabilities and the the oil is cavitating(sp?) but if that was the case I would think the problem would go away once the oil had settled (right?). i'm wondering if air could be slowly seeping past a seal or o-ring somewhere since the damper is under a vacuum normally but I'm not sure where that seal/oring would be. I'm going to pull it apart tonight to change oil and see if i can see anything but would appreciate if anyone has any ideas. Thanks


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

My Velvet RL2 does the same thing. I haven't solved it, I just release the pressure every few months. Ensuring the damper oil level is correct (i.e. just covering the snap ring at the top of the piston) is important, if the oil level is too high I need to de-pressurise much more often.


The damper is certainly not under a vacuum normally, the bit of air under the damper top cap is at atmospheric pressure when the fork is extended.


Maybe a transient vacuum can occur during fast rebound which causes air to be pulled into the damper. I would have thought it would be a common problem if that were the case and I have only heard of you, one other guy on this forum and myself who have experienced it so I'm thinking it's a manufacturing defect somewhere.


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## bkmad (Nov 16, 2004)

PhillipJ said:


> My Velvet RL2 does the same thing. I haven't solved it, I just release the pressure every few months. Ensuring the damper oil level is correct (i.e. just covering the snap ring at the top of the piston) is important, if the oil level is too high I need to de-pressurise much more often.
> 
> The damper is certainly not under a vacuum normally, the bit of air under the damper top cap is at atmospheric pressure when the fork is extended.
> 
> Maybe a transient vacuum can occur during fast rebound which causes air to be pulled into the damper. I would have thought it would be a common problem if that were the case and I have only heard of you, one other guy on this forum and myself who have experienced it so I'm thinking it's a manufacturing defect somewhere.


Hey, i've got a sweep rl2 with the same issue. I think what is happening is the damper is sucking oil in from the lowers over time. So it starts off at atmospheric pressure, then sucks some oil in resulting in the same amount of air in a smaller space - hence the pressure build up. I have found it works better if I don't put too much oil in the lowers when I service it so that there's not too much to suck up. If I put in more than the recommended 15ml then the problem seems to occur faster.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

Does anyone know/can anyone find out thread size of the valve hole in the air spring top cap (34mm forks, but I suspect all forks use the same part for the valve)
Valve core goes into a threaded tube, which is screwed into the top cap. Removing the core gives access to the hex socket at the bottom which allows you to back the valve tube out of the top cap itself
It's the latter thread I'm interested in
Do not have a matching tap/die, it's close to M7x0.75, but nothing I can get my hands on fits
9/32" maybe?


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## Boom King (Jun 5, 2016)

bruto said:


> Does anyone know/can anyone find out thread size of the valve hole in the air spring top cap (34mm forks, but I suspect all forks use the same part for the valve)
> Valve core goes into a threaded tube, which is screwed into the top cap. Removing the core gives access to the hex socket at the bottom which allows you to back the valve tube out of the top cap itself
> It's the latter thread I'm interested in
> Do not have a matching tap/die, it's close to M7x0.75, but nothing I can get my hands on fits
> 9/32" maybe?


The external thread size of a Schrader valve is 0.305 inches outer diameter by 32 threads per inch (TPI), and it has a thread root diameter of 0.302 inches outer diameter.*The valve also has an internal thread of 0.209 inches outer diameter by 36 TPI. If no taps and dies of 0.305 inches are available, then 0.302 inch taps and dies are suitable replacements.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

Thanks, but I was asking about different threads
number 3 on the picture: 







Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

you've described 1 and 2

because none of this imperial BS is available here and if I have to shop for the tool abroad, I'd rather buy just 1 tap than tap & die


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## Boom King (Jun 5, 2016)

I assumed 2 and 3 would be identical.


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## chize (Jun 13, 2011)

PhillipJ said:


> The damper is certainly not under a vacuum normally, the bit of air under the damper top cap is at atmospheric pressure when the fork is extended.


I realized after i posted that the space is displaced by the oil as the damper rod extends. doh!



bkmad said:


> Hey, i've got a sweep rl2 with the same issue. I think what is happening is the damper is sucking oil in from the lowers over time. So it starts off at atmospheric pressure, then sucks some oil in resulting in the same amount of air in a smaller space - hence the pressure build up. I have found it works better if I don't put too much oil in the lowers when I service it so that there's not too much to suck up. If I put in more than the recommended 15ml then the problem seems to occur faster.


This is what i'm thinking too. I noticed that I had a lot less oil in the lowers on one side of the fork than the other and every time i've opened up the damper to let pressure out oil leaked out. I took apart the damper and notice that the seal on the lower rod (the one that has the rebound adjuster on the base has as white plastic seal instead of an O-ring. The seal between that plastic ring and the wall of the damper didn't seem all that great and i suspect that oil could leak past if it was forced down too quickly, I gave it a good coating of slick honey, if that doesn't fix it i'll ask x-fusion to send me another seal and see if that helps.


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## B1ackR00m (Dec 31, 2016)

Hello , i need help. I changed the oil in the damper plug X-Fusion Slant RL2 , dismantled the rebound and forgot in what order the washers are going and which side to put the red circle (with small holes). After picking up the fork, I found that the rebound is not working in SLOW mode.

In what order do you need these parts?


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## GraemeDuane (May 24, 2017)

*Lockout?*

Can someone help..? I have a RL2 with a locked lock-out. It's locked open, but it does not budge. Not keen to force it, because the little hex pin is so small & soft. Do I need to release the silver nut within the top cap? Will that enable me to dismantle the lockout?


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## bikebums (Jun 13, 2012)

Can't tell from the picture but I see the detention ball c clip is removed. Are the 2 check balls and springs accounted for? If not, one of them could be jamming it. I have not had the courage to remove the top not but I imagine that is how you get the rest of the assembly apart.


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## GraemeDuane (May 24, 2017)

bikebums said:


> Can't tell from the picture but I see the detention ball c clip is removed. Are the 2 check balls and springs accounted for? If not, one of them could be jamming it. I have not had the courage to remove the top not but I imagine that is how you get the rest of the assembly apart.


Funny you say that, because one of the balls is missing. I did think that it could have been pushed into some groove inside the shaft, but it's hard to see in there.


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## kubikeman (Jun 4, 2010)

bkmad said:


> Hey, i've got a sweep rl2 with the same issue. I think what is happening is the damper is sucking oil in from the lowers over time. So it starts off at atmospheric pressure, then sucks some oil in resulting in the same amount of air in a smaller space - hence the pressure build up. I have found it works better if I don't put too much oil in the lowers when I service it so that there's not too much to suck up. If I put in more than the recommended 15ml then the problem seems to occur faster.


I've been having the same issue with my Sweep as well. Glad to know I'm not crazy. The air and oil swap places over time. I had so much pressure building up in the lowers that it would push out the wiper seal!

I had the air spring swapped on warranty, but that doesn't seem to fix the problem. I brought it to my LBS suspension guru and he cleaned everything out of the damper and said he added some kind of heavy grease to keep the air/oil from migrating. I don't have a lot of miles yet this year, but everything seems to be working okay.

Next fork will have the roughcut damper, no question.


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## ScottieM8 (Apr 3, 2015)

My RL2 damper seemed to fade in performance on long descents. Upgraded to the Roughcut damper and that improved it tremendously! Feels better than my Pike. Purchased the damper at Worldwidecyclery at a good price.


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## bushwacker888 (Jun 6, 2017)

Hi! 
Where can I buy replacement foot nut for my Slant 34mm damper? 
Thank you! 👍


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

Just write to them if you can't find it in any stores
XF have great customer service


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

kubikeman said:


> I've been having the same issue with my Sweep as well. Glad to know I'm not crazy. The air and oil swap places over time. I had so much pressure building up in the lowers that it would push out the wiper seal!
> 
> I had the air spring swapped on warranty, but that doesn't seem to fix the problem. I brought it to my LBS suspension guru and he cleaned everything out of the damper and said he added some kind of heavy grease to keep the air/oil from migrating. I don't have a lot of miles yet this year, but everything seems to be working okay.
> 
> Next fork will have the roughcut damper, no question.


I'm guessing people that are getting pressure in the damper are running high-ish air pressures, rebound closer to closed and compression mostly open? If so, a revalve to stiffer rebound so you can run it in the middle, and running the compression a few clicks out from closed should help fix the pressure balance problem. You may need to re shim the compression too if you can't run it closed. Setting rebound more open means oil can flow through faster on compression to prevent the vacuum behind the piston which is sucking air in


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

JohnnyC7 said:


> I'm guessing people that are getting pressure in the damper are running high-ish air pressures, rebound closer to closed and compression mostly open?


You can't adjust LSC externally on the RL2 damper, it's open or closed.

I was running lowish pressure for my weight (~73PSI for ~175 lbs, X-Fusion recommend ~85 PSI for 170 lb rider) and correspondingly fast rebound.


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## bushwacker888 (Jun 6, 2017)

bruto said:


> Just write to them if you can't find it in any stores
> XF have great customer service


I'm from the Philippines and XF replied to my email, they can give me one but the shipping cost would be very expensive.

Is there anyway or anything that I could do or substitute a different nut for the damper foot nut? 
Thanks! ?


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

old chainring nut (M8.5, I think) fits, but you'll have to find one yourself and modify it so it can actually be operated on with a hex socket or some wrench and leave room for the rebound knob to be installed


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

bushwacker888 said:


> I'm from the Philippines and XF replied to my email, they can give me one but the shipping cost would be very expensive.
> 
> Is there anyway or anything that I could do or substitute a different nut for the damper foot nut?
> Thanks! ?


How did you damage the nut? Do you have the damper removal/install tool? If you don't then you could order the tools at the same time and spread the shipping cost. 
I'm in Australia and local x-fusion dealer here is great. Maybe try emailing them and see if they will ship to you. www.diymtb.com.au
Parts might be slightly more expensive and ex rate may not be in your favour though.


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## bushwacker888 (Jun 6, 2017)

bruto said:


> old chainring nut (M8.5, I think) fits, but you'll have to find one yourself and modify it so it can actually be operated on with a hex socket or some wrench and leave room for the rebound knob to be installed


Tested some old chainring nut but it doesn't fit. Thanks anyways! 👍


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

bushwacker888 said:


> Tested some old chainring nut but it doesn't fit. Thanks anyways! 👍


Yeah. I read that somewhere too but it is actually M10. Can't remember what pitch.


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## bushwacker888 (Jun 6, 2017)

niva1989 said:


> How did you damage the nut? Do you have the damper removal/install tool? If you don't then you could order the tools at the same time and spread the shipping cost.
> I'm in Australia and local x-fusion dealer here is great. Maybe try emailing them and see if they will ship to you. www.diymtb.com.au
> Parts might be slightly more expensive and ex rate may not be in your favour though.


I over torqued it i think, will try emailing diymtb.com.au
Hopefully they have what I am looking for. 
Thanks! ?


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

niva, I have such a nut and it fits my RL2 damper shaft threads (on a McQueen)
can be used for disassembly/assembly in place of the RL2 damper tool


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

bruto said:


> niva, I have such a nut and it fits my RL2 damper shaft threads (on a McQueen)
> can be used for disassembly/assembly in place of the RL2 damper tool


It's been a while since I had mine apart. I think the tool I got has 2 size threads. One is for the damper shaft and one for the air shaft I think. I could have the 2 threads confused.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

bushwacker888 said:


> I over torqued it i think, will try emailing diymtb.com.au
> Hopefully they have what I am looking for.
> Thanks! 🍻


Did you try and use the nut to pull the shaft through or did you use a damper shaft tool? I hear the footnuts can't be used to pull the shaft through the lowers as the threads tear out. They are pretty soft. I would def suggest getting the damper shaft tool if you don't have one. They are pretty cheap.


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## beaver_nz (Jun 20, 2017)

kikoraa said:


> Hey guys I figure this is my only place for hope on this matter...
> I got my girlfriend a brand new streat rl2 (New take off from a bike) however it has a super harsh top out at full extension. rebound seems to work properly (slow or fast relative to knob) and ive spent plenty of time inside a RS and Fox forks. When i dropped the lowers and unthreaded the air spring of the streat, I popped it out but noticed there was no rubber bumper at the top of the shaft. It was just a completely bare rod. Is this normal? could this be the cause of the top out?
> 
> Before i opened it i tried the zip tie purge trick on both sides and reset air several times.


I have a similar/the same problem. I got a 2013/2014 new old stock slant rl2 dla (travel adjust from 160 to 130) and have the same harsh knocking at top out. The fork is very harsh off the top of its travel. Once its into its travel its great. but on light bumps etc you can hear and feel it knocking as it tops out. Even running super low air pressure doesn't help. Rebound works as expected, and the problem is there at both 130mm and 160mm settings. Things I need to try are to drop all the air out and fully compress then re-air (as suggested), and also check there is no air build up by using the zip tie trick to burp the lowers.

Im not comfortable to pull the fork apart myself but are there any other things worth trying? Or is this just the way the fork is and I just need to live with it?

Cheers


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## bushwacker888 (Jun 6, 2017)

Noob question. 

When you say "make sure....... rebound adjustment is full open" 
Where do I dial my rebound (+) or (-)? 

Thank you! 🍻


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## bushwacker888 (Jun 6, 2017)

I have one now but my replacement foot nut will arrive 2nd week of July.


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## bushwacker888 (Jun 6, 2017)

niva1989 said:


> Did you try and use the nut to pull the shaft through or did you use a damper shaft tool? I hear the footnuts can't be used to pull the shaft through the lowers as the threads tear out. They are pretty soft. I would def suggest getting the damper shaft tool if you don't have one. They are pretty cheap.


I have one now but my replacement foot nut will arrive 2nd week of July.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

beaver_nz said:


> I have a similar/the same problem. I got a 2013/2014 new old stock slant rl2 dla (travel adjust from 160 to 130) and have the same harsh knocking at top out. The fork is very harsh off the top of its travel. Once its into its travel its great. but on light bumps etc you can hear and feel it knocking as it tops out. Even running super low air pressure doesn't help. Rebound works as expected, and the problem is there at both 130mm and 160mm settings. Things I need to try are to drop all the air out and fully compress then re-air (as suggested), and also check there is no air build up by using the zip tie trick to burp the lowers.
> 
> Im not comfortable to pull the fork apart myself but are there any other things worth trying? Or is this just the way the fork is and I just need to live with it?
> 
> Cheers


You don't need to live with it. I have a Trace RL2 DLA 140/110. This is my second one as CRC sent me a replacement fork for this same issue. The replacement fork arrived with the same issue. I thought the top out bumper was missing. I emailed X-Fusion and they said to let all of the air out and fully compress the fork to be sure all of the air is removed then reinflate. It hasn't missed a beat since. The Trace DLA uses the negative air spring as a top out bumper so I assume the slant is the same.

If this fixes the issue then next thing to do is upgrade to the HLR damper


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

bushwacker888 said:


> Noob question.
> 
> When you say "make sure....... rebound adjustment is full open"
> Where do I dial my rebound (+) or (-)?
> ...


When you are looking at the top of the knob turn it counter clockwise to open it. Clockwise to close. Just like a screw.


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## beaver_nz (Jun 20, 2017)

niva1989 said:


> You don't need to live with it. I have a Trace RL2 DLA 140/110. This is my second one as CRC sent me a replacement fork for this same issue. The replacement fork arrived with the same issue. I thought the top out bumper was missing. I emailed X-Fusion and they said to let all of the air out and fully compress the fork to be sure all of the air is removed then reinflate. It hasn't missed a beat since. The Trace DLA uses the negative air spring as a top out bumper so I assume the slant is the same.
> 
> If this fixes the issue then next thing to do is upgrade to the HLR damper


Great thanks! Will have a go tonight....fingers crossed.


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## beaver_nz (Jun 20, 2017)

niva1989 said:


> You don't need to live with it. I have a Trace RL2 DLA 140/110. This is my second one as CRC sent me a replacement fork for this same issue. The replacement fork arrived with the same issue. I thought the top out bumper was missing. I emailed X-Fusion and they said to let all of the air out and fully compress the fork to be sure all of the air is removed then reinflate. It hasn't missed a beat since. The Trace DLA uses the negative air spring as a top out bumper so I assume the slant is the same.
> 
> If this fixes the issue then next thing to do is upgrade to the HLR damper


Just did this and it worked a treat! Fork feels so good now! Also did the zip tie past the seals trick and got a hiss out of both sides.

Cheers!


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## millsj2 (Jan 18, 2011)

Has anyone had this issue before? The compression switch just snapped the damper shaft clean in half. I barely applied any pressure to turn the knob.























I emailed their service department and they admitted that the parts used there were, in their words, "Fragile materials" in early models and have since been replaced with stainless steel parts. Then quoted me $150 for repairs.


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

millsj2 said:


> I emailed their service department and they admitted that the parts used there were, in their words, "Fragile materials" in early models and have since been replaced with stainless steel parts. Then quoted me $150 for repairs.


$150 kind of sucks for an admitted flaw. But you could take the opportunity to upgrade for a couple buck more to the HLR damper and make this a positive.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

ac1000 said:


> $150 kind of sucks for an admitted flaw. But you could take the opportunity to upgrade for a couple buck more to the HLR damper and make this a positive.


Totally agree with this. I picked up my HLR for 175, and the upgrade was worth every penny. Youll forget all about the old damper.

Alternately, maybe someone who has already upgraded would be willing to part with their RL2 damper on the cheap? Unfortunately I'm not looking to unload mine, but maybe someone else is. Check ebay maybe.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

millsj2 said:


> Has anyone had this issue before? The compression switch just snapped the damper shaft clean in half. I barely applied any pressure to turn the knob.
> 
> View attachment 1143140
> 
> ...


Mine did exactly this today on my older Trace.
I did not turn it.
It just snapped off when I hit a big bump.
Thinking I will see if I can upgrade the entire cartridge.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

Hey guys. Was curious if you could adjust volum in a slide rl2 by putting a few ml of oil in the upper underneath the air cap? I picked up one today and it feels a little too plus for my taste. I weigh 230 and run 25% sag at approx 85psi was hoping to stiffen it up while maintaining sag.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

It's a coil negative spring so I don't see why you couldn't put oil or grease in the air chamber. However IMO you should first try running less sag. Nothing wrong with ~15% if it feels good.


Reducing volume is really only going to change the bottom third (very approx) of the travel so if it feels too soft off the top you need to increase pressure instead.


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## chize (Jun 13, 2011)

It comes from the factory with some oil already in the volume chamber (iirc 15ml in my trace rl2, I think yours should be the same. check the service video on their website to be sure) You can add more but you should call xfusion customer service first and ask about it because if you add too much you can create enough of a pressure spike at bottom out to blow the top out of the air chamber. Xfusion should be able to advise how much you can safely add.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

Thanks guys. I just reduced sag to about 18%. it still feels plush but much more managable. Excited to do a shakedown ride tomorrow.I did have an issue on an old streat 27.5 fork where it would make a thunk at full extension. much like a topout. This new slide is doing it too and I was wondering if that is just how x fusion forks are? My velvet and velour never did that but that was the old rl damper. It kind of bothers me but if others have the same experience, i suppose i can live with it.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

kikoraa said:


> Thanks guys. I just reduced sag to about 18%. it still feels plush but much more managable. Excited to do a shakedown ride tomorrow.I did have an issue on an old streat 27.5 fork where it would make a thunk at full extension. much like a topout. This new slide is doing it too and I was wondering if that is just how x fusion forks are? My velvet and velour never did that but that was the old rl damper. It kind of bothers me but if others have the same experience, i suppose i can live with it.


Def not how they are. Have you tried letting everylast bit of air out while compressing fully then reinflating? Fixed my Trace when it was doing that out of the box. The Trace relies on a cushion of air for the bump stop on the neg side of the air piston and not a rubber top out bumper. It is not damper side related as the top out is on the air side. Not sure if Slide is the same as Trace in this regard. I'd just email x-fusion if you have already tried the reinflating trick. They are very helpful.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

kikoraa said:


> Hey guys. Was curious if you could adjust volum in a slide rl2 by putting a few ml of oil in the upper underneath the air cap? I picked up one today and it feels a little too plus for my taste. I weigh 230 and run 25% sag at approx 85psi was hoping to stiffen it up while maintaining sag.


I do run an extra 15ml of oil in the air chamber. It makes for a more progressive spring. I also run my sag at about 30%. I way about 260 all kitted up for riding. I have had the fork now for about 2 1/2 years and couldn't be more happy with it. I do have the travel set at 120mm.


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## beaver_nz (Jun 20, 2017)

kikoraa said:


> I did have an issue on an old streat 27.5 fork where it would make a thunk at full extension. much like a topout. This new slide is doing it too and I was wondering if that is just how x fusion forks are? My velvet and velour never did that but that was the old rl damper. It kind of bothers me but if others have the same experience, i suppose i can live with it.


I had what sounds like the same issue on a rl2 slant, and fixed it by letting out all the air (including compressing the fork with the valve open), 'burping' the lowers by sliding a small cable tie past the fork seals, and then re-airing.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

beaver_nz said:


> I had what sounds like the same issue on a rl2 slant, and fixed it by letting out all the air (including compressing the fork with the valve open), 'burping' the lowers by sliding a small cable tie past the fork seals, and then re-airing.


Just be careful when burping the lowers with a cable tie. If you do it with the fork fully compressed you need to remember to do it again at full extension once reinflated to relieve the vacuum created in the lowers when it extends.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

Yea, I always thought you slide the tie in when its fully extended.

I spoke with x-fusion today and they told me that the top out clunk is just something that happens in their "budget 32mm" forks. Apparently it doesnt do it in the 34mm rl2 or hlr dampers. He said the top out bumper was a 90 durometer piece which is what causes that klunk. 

I guess I'm ok with it but I will stay away from 32mm x-fusions from here on out. Kind of bummed I bought it brand new because I needed a staright/qr combo fork. good think i work at a shop. still broke with a funky fork though :/


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

you can cut yourself another bumper from softer rubber 
slit it, put on the rod, glue back together


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

The other thing is that the other 34mm forks have a top out spring.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

kikoraa said:


> Yea, I always thought you slide the tie in when its fully extended.
> 
> I spoke with x-fusion today and they told me that the top out clunk is just something that happens in their "budget 32mm" forks. Apparently it doesnt do it in the 34mm rl2 or hlr dampers. He said the top out bumper was a 90 durometer piece which is what causes that klunk.
> 
> I guess I'm ok with it but I will stay away from 32mm x-fusions from here on out. Kind of bummed I bought it brand new because I needed a staright/qr combo fork. good think i work at a shop. still broke with a funky fork though :/


I have a 2015 Slide and I have never had a top out clunk. I wonder if they changed something internally?


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

huckleberry hound said:


> I have a 2015 Slide and I have never had a top out clunk. I wonder if they changed something internally?


That's what he said. He said it's the new gen of air spring. That the older gen do not clunk.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

kikoraa said:


> That's what he said. He said it's the new gen of air spring. That the older gen do not clunk.


Well that STINKS! They seemed to have messed up a really good fork then.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

never heard this clunk from my McQueen
has to be the new spring inside, right?
don't remember what the topout bumper looked like, though


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

The mcqueen is one of the higher end forks. He stated it was specifically the 32mm stanchion forks. The mcqueen is 34.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

I had to bail on a ride today because it was SO ANNOYING!!! I made a terrible mistake with this fork. I had no qualms purchasing x fusion because I've had so much success in the past. As well as my new manic dropper on my other bike. I work at a shop and got it for cost so it's not terrible, however, I work st a shop so I'm broke with a really crappy fork. I can't sell it in good concscience because I would hate to put this burden on someone else. Super bummer. I feel like I threw money away.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

since you work at a shop, you should have some springs lying around
there's probably room inside your negative spring for a shorter, stiffer one
like this: 








except in 1 piece

if you're not going to sell it now, tune away


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

Yea, I even have an older x fusion velour fork. The predecessor to the velvet. I don't want to mess with anything just yet because it's a week old and we're trying a warranty situation. I did mention that I do have another x fusion for and was hoping I can take parts from that spring assembly to quiet this one up.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

Funny - I'm servicing a friends velvet rl2 and the damper had unthreaded inside the fork, dumping all of the oil. It's all back together and while i usually use fox 10 red for the lowers lube, I'm waiting on a liter of torco rsf for the damper. Don't want to mess around with that. I never heard that harsh top out on his before, or on another friends streat rl2. I wonder why mine has that. either way, its off and hopefully will return fixed. Kind of wishing I had opened it up myself but i wanted to take advantage of it being only a week old. 


Does anyone know how to purchase the damper tool and/or the hilo tool?


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

kikoraa said:


> Does anyone know how to purchase the damper tool and/or the hilo tool?


I bought mine from X-Fusion in CA but it doesn't fit my Slide. You can read about it here. X-Fusion Slide RL2 - Page 3- Mtbr.com


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## bushwacker888 (Jun 6, 2017)

When my Slant RL2 top out, there's a clunking sound inside my fork.
Is this normal? My fork setup is 160mm @ 70psi.
Thanks!


----------



## beaver_nz (Jun 20, 2017)

bushwacker888 said:


> When my Slant RL2 top out, there's a clunking sound inside my fork.
> Is this normal? My fork setup is 160mm @ 70psi.
> Thanks!


I had a similar sounding issue and fixed it by releasing all the air (including compressing the fork fully with the airbvalve open) then re-aired and viola! Perfect


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## bushwacker888 (Jun 6, 2017)

beaver_nz said:


> I had a similar sounding issue and fixed it by releasing all the air (including compressing the fork fully with the airbvalve open) then re-aired and viola! Perfect


Fixed mine by placing an O-ring as my top out bumper.

Placed it below the red piston head.
Will ride this weekend and hoping that it will not make that stupid metal noise anymore.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

this means your air spring can extend a little further than the damper
I'd shorten the spring


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## bushwacker888 (Jun 6, 2017)

bruto said:


> this means your air spring can extend a little further than the damper
> I'd shorten the spring


Should I cut the spring or adjust my travel to 140mm?


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

why cut - just put a spacer between the neg spring and its stop
5mm might be enough


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## bushwacker888 (Jun 6, 2017)

bruto said:


> why cut - just put a spacer between the neg spring and its stop
> 5mm might be enough


Sorry for this dumb question.
Should I put the spacer above the base plate?
Thanks!


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

above the neg spring, just below the stop that compresses said spring
that way the spacer won't have to slide over the rod and add friction









but, if your spacer slides over the rod easily, you can put it below the negative spring, just above the base plate


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

If I cycled the 70ml in the damper but there's still about 5mm that will not suck in and hangs out under the top cap, is that safe to leave alone or should I unthread the cap and pour it out.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

deflate the spring and try compressing it completely?
if there's no bottom out resistance from the air in the damper, then there's no problem, I think


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

bruto said:


> deflate the spring and try compressing it completely?
> if there's no bottom out resistance from the air in the damper, then there's no problem, I think


Some x-fusion forks use a cushion of air in the neg chamber as the top out bumper so this can reset the balance between the positive and negative sides of the air piston. It might only be travel adjust forks though.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

bruto said:


> above the neg spring, just below the stop that compresses said spring
> that way the spacer won't have to slide over the rod and add friction
> 
> View attachment 1156734
> ...


how is this going to increase travel? Im completely confused by how you think a spacer will increase the travel?


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

R_Pierce said:


> how is this going to increase travel? Im completely confused by how you think a spacer will increase the travel?


No one thinks it's going to increase travel. It's reducing the spring travel to match the reduced damper travel.


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## bushwacker888 (Jun 6, 2017)

I emailed X-Fusion Taiwan, they said that my Slant fork is only 140 max travel.
I adjusted it before to 160 and the clunking sound doesn't stop.
Will revert back to 140.


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## mendelsohnf (Sep 17, 2017)

Has anyone experienced issues with their lockout gradually going limp over a succession of rides? 
My McQueen RL2s had a stiff lockout initially but after maybe 5 rides there was more and more movement when in lockout. I sent them to Upgrade who fixed the issue but couldn't tell me what was wrong. 

After a few rides the problem occurred again. Initially lockout very stiff/fixed but after each ride I am able to compress the forks more and more during lockout. Sent it off again, Ugrade fixed it but trying to find out from them what was wrong is like drawing blood from a stone!

Anyway, fork was ok for a few rides but now same thing happening again.
I've only had the forks for 6 months.
Any ideas what migh be causing the recurring lockout fail?


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Possibly losing damper oil into the lowers although I'm not sure if that would cause the problem you're having. Easy to check, take of the damper side top cap and have a look, oil should be covering the clip at the top of the damper.

Also, I think the bit of the damper that clamps the high-speed/lockout shim stack threads on so if it had unthreaded a little you'd be losing pre-load which would make your lockout softer. You'll probably have to pull your damper out to check. There's a photo at the end of the second post on the first page of this thread (http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/official-xfusion-rl2-fork-service-tuning-thread-910996.html) showing what it should look like.


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## jton219 (Oct 7, 2009)

great thread. I have never worked on suspension before but will attempt a lowers service and travel adjust this weekend. 

I just got a preowned Sweep set at 160mm for $100 bucks on PB. Need to set it to 120mm travel to fit the bike i'm going to put it on. 

My other bike has a 14' SLANT Goldslick that has never been serviced. I just bought the consumer XF RL2 tool. 

I do not have Torco Med oil at home, does motor oil work fine for the lubricating semibath in a XF fork? I have Mobile 1 5w20 and 10-30 at home. 

I'll buy some shock fluid if i ever mess with the damper, but that might be next steps later on when i'm a bit more experienced.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

It doesn't matter that much what bushing lube you use. I have used Fox Green 10wt, Supergliss and Maxima 15wt Fork Oil at various times in a Velvet and can't tell the difference.


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## jton219 (Oct 7, 2009)

PhillipJ said:


> It doesn't matter that much what bushing lube you use. I have used Fox Green 10wt, Supergliss and Maxima 15wt Fork Oil at various times in a Velvet and can't tell the difference.


thanks, i noticed you mainly mentioned diff shock/fork oils, what about straight synthetic 10w motor oil. not sure there is much difference there but just wanted to see if you had experience with regular engine motor oil.


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## jton219 (Oct 7, 2009)

OMG. Tried the travel adjust. Got to the step where i need to push out the pin on the air spring ladder. I can't F*in push it out. i don't have that pin press thing XF video guy has. any suggestions on what to use to push that pin out. i feel like i'm gonna snap the air spring rod if i push any harder with a 2.5hex.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

I managed it using a vice as a press, something to support the rod that has a hole it in allowing the pin to pass through (like a nut), and a nail slightly thinner than the pin (I think I used a dremel to cut the tip off to shorten it and give a more stable pushing surface). Make sure you don't push the pin all the way out (getting it back in would be extremely difficult) - go slow. I'm pretty sure I got the idea by watching the X-fusion video and seeing the press they use.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

you can put some spacers on the shaft in between the spring stop and the spring
which will effectively move the spring stop down and reduce travel
it's 9mm in diameter, some spacers for other forks should fit or you can have them made from nylon/POM/whatever - it's a simple job for a machinist


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## jton219 (Oct 7, 2009)

i don't have a vice but got it to work using my Spindoctor G3 workstand to hold it steady. Punched it out with a softblow hammer and a 3mm hex. Accidentally hammered it all the way out. Opps! Was able to press it back in using the bike workstand grip as a vice "press". ghetto but it worked.


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## gusthedog2009 (Jun 18, 2014)

*Damper tool for late model xfusion THREAD SIZE*



bruto said:


> it's not metric
> I've had a POM tool made and tapped with M8x0.75 tap and it's not going on the damper shaft, too tight
> it might be imperial threads, 5/16" 32tpi or something like that


I retapped the original damper tool to 10 x 1.25 - perfect fit. C-type damper tool for the newer forks is available on Ebay


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## jton219 (Oct 7, 2009)

Everyone in the forum seems to think the factory damping fluid is Torco RSF Light ~14.5 cst @ 40. Those of you who opened up a virgin RL2 damper, was the fluid purple??

I called Madsuspension, the official XF service center now, and they said the factory fluid is RFF 10. At least that is what they use in the damper for a service now.

I then found this link off the XF site. Confirms " All fork damper oil is Torco Medium RSF (full synthetic 10.0wt) or RFF (Blended 10.0wt) "

Maybe they changed the formula from the 2013/2014 RL2 initial release and use cheaper oil now.

http://www.xfusionshox.com/images/service_center/torque_chart_oil_levels.xlsx


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Just got my sweep. This thing is pretty nice! I can feel I'll need to reshim the hsc a little, but it's pretty good stock. Very controllable.

The 46 offset made a bigger difference than I thought it would. It's a quick steering bike now. It'll take time to adjust. It replaced a 26" rev rlt ti.


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## jton219 (Oct 7, 2009)

i rebuilt a 2015 Sweep today and changed the damper fluid. Did not do any shim changes. I purchased it used and previous owner said he had not done any prior maintenance. Damper fluid was a light red color, which i think is Torco Racing Fork Fluid (RFF) 10 or Racing Shock Fluid (RSF) 10. RSF Light would have been light purple.


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## jton219 (Oct 7, 2009)

This hollowed out 8mm allen on this fits the Roughcut HLR Damper HSC knob perfectly. Will work great until XF makes a real consumer tool.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

I have a sweep I am adding oil to and have read that the damper takes Torco RSF light and other places it takes medium. What would the difference be? I have medium at home so going to add that. 

Is the the correct amounts of oil to add?
Damper - 70ml RSF Torco medium 
15ml fox gold each lower leg

Should I add slick honey or anything else where to increase mid support?

Thanks


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

you must use rsf lite or equivalent weight in the damper, not the rsf medium, that will totally change the performance of the fork. put slick honey on the wipers and seals.


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## jton219 (Oct 7, 2009)

I talked to Mike D at XF and asked about this. He says in the damper they use Torco RFF 10 which is a reddish color. The damping fluid i removed was reddish on my Slant. It has a CST of ~ 20 at 40C. 

I asked about RSF Light. He said it can be used in place of RFF 10. I asked about even lighter 2.5 w oils and he said i would lose a lot of damping support and need to turn up the rebound all the way. Did not recommend it. RSF Light is supposed to be purple. Did not see any purple oil in the Sweep or Slant dampers i have when i did service. All the oil i saw was shades of red. 

I ended up putting in Motul Factory Light 5w which has a CST around 18.3.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

jton219 said:


> I talked to Mike D at XF and asked about this. He says in the damper they use Torco RFF 10 which is a reddish color. The damping fluid i removed was reddish on my Slant. It has a CST of ~ 20 at 40C.
> 
> I asked about RSF Light. He said it can be used in place of RFF 10. I asked about even lighter 2.5 w oils and he said i would lose a lot of damping support and need to turn up the rebound all the way. Did not recommend it. RSF Light is supposed to be purple. Did not see any purple oil in the Sweep or Slant dampers i have when i did service. All the oil i saw was shades of red.
> 
> I ended up putting in Motul Factory Light 5w which has a CST around 18.3.


Huh, they must have changed specs since I started this thread, back then they told me torco rsf lite. As long as the oil you put in has close to same viscosity they spec it should work fine. Now I have a roughcut damper in my sweep so I don't have to worry about this now


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## Walnut79 (Nov 27, 2017)

*Travel loss on Sweep RL2*

Greetings!

How much travel have you guys (bkmad, PhillipJ and chize) lost with this issue?

I've noticed my (new) Sweep RL2 doesn't get the full travel I'd expect - 132mm on the 140mm setting, even with the air spring completely depressurised. Maybe this is normal ? There is approx 144mm of stanchion showing at full extension so the travel o-ring maxes out roughly 12mm from the top.

The service agent found nothing wrong with the fork and returned as is so maybe this is normal to not get quite the full travel. I've never had this before on previous Rockshox forks I've had. Maybe the bumpstop needs compressing under heavy load to get the full quoted travel ?

I haven't tried removing the damper side cap to release any air pressure in the damper yet, as you have done.

Cheers



chize said:


> I realized after i posted that the space is displaced by the oil as the damper rod extends. doh!
> 
> This is what i'm thinking too. I noticed that I had a lot less oil in the lowers on one side of the fork than the other and every time i've opened up the damper to let pressure out oil leaked out. I took apart the damper and notice that the seal on the lower rod (the one that h)as the rebound adjuster on the base has as white plastic seal instead of an O-ring. The seal between that plastic ring and the wall of the damper didn't seem all that great and i suspect that oil could leak past if it was forced down too quickly, I gave it a good coating of slick honey, if that doesn't fix it i'll ask x-fusion to send me another seal and see if that helps.


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## chize (Jun 13, 2011)

I would lose up to 20mm of travel over time on mine. I would start by burping any air out of the lowers and then unscrewing the damper side cap to see if any pressure escapes (no need to remove the lower legs for this step). If you do have pressure in the damper follow the steps in my post to grease up the damper shaft seals and rings as that fixed the issue for me.


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## Walnut79 (Nov 27, 2017)

Thank you, will do. I'll get onto orderering a 28mm socket and grind it flat. Any chance you know what number your post was Chize ?I can't seem to find it! Presumably greasing the damper shaft seals/rings involve a lower leg removal and further disassembly of the damper, (as opposed to doing it from above via the lockout topcap) ? I have some Stendec suspension grease - any idea if this would be thick enough ? Thanks


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## chize (Jun 13, 2011)

Check out lunar bike tools. Lunar Bike Tools much easier than grinding a socket flat. You'll also need the foot-nut tool from xfusion if you want to pull the lowers. 
The instructions are in the post you quoted, I didn't think to take pictures or anything. You pretty much just take the lower part of the damper shaft out of the leg, pull it apart and grease any seals you see. I keep an eye on this thread so feel free to ask any questions you run across. 
I used suspension grease when I did it so you should be fine there, I imagine heavier grease would work as well


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## jton219 (Oct 7, 2009)

chize said:


> Check out lunar bike tools. Lunar Bike Tools much easier than grinding a socket flat. You'll also need the foot-nut tool from xfusion if you want to pull the lowers.
> The instructions are in the post you quoted, I didn't think to take pictures or anything. You pretty much just take the lower part of the damper shaft out of the leg, pull it apart and grease any seals you see. I keep an eye on this thread so feel free to ask any questions you run across.
> I used suspension grease when I did it so you should be fine there, I imagine heavier grease would work as well


https://www.ebay.com/itm/WCM-26mm-2...-CTD-top-air-cap-Magura-X-fusion/251968579948

i purchased this tool from this ebay seller. very good quality tool. Snug and tight fitting on the top cap.


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## Walnut79 (Nov 27, 2017)

I've just had the damper topcap off with the fork depressurised and cycled the damper rod a bit. It feels a lot stiffer than I'd expect it to be. Anyway I'm up to about 134mm travel now out of the supposed 140mm. Should the lowers be burped with a cable tie when the fork is fully compressed, or fully extended ? Presumably if done compressed, when the fork is pumped up and extends again a vacuum will be created in the lowers.


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## jton219 (Oct 7, 2009)

Walnut79 said:


> I've just had the damper topcap off with the fork depressurised and cycled the damper rod a bit. It feels a lot stiffer than I'd expect it to be. Anyway I'm up to about 134mm travel now out of the supposed 140mm. Should the lowers be burped with a cable tie when the fork is fully compressed, or fully extended ? Presumably if done compressed, when the fork is pumped up and extends again a vacuum will be created in the lowers.


Think you are hitting the white rubber bump stop or your predrilled ladder holes are slightly off. Either way, wouldn't sorry about it so much as i don't think you can really permanently fix it unless you drill a new hole or remove the bump stop. Makes sense as the bump stop will compress about 50% on a big hit which gives you that 5mm you are missing.


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## chize (Jun 13, 2011)

Walnut79 said:


> I've just had the damper topcap off with the fork depressurised and cycled the damper rod a bit. It feels a lot stiffer than I'd expect it to be. Anyway I'm up to about 134mm travel now out of the supposed 140mm. Should the lowers be burped with a cable tie when the fork is fully compressed, or fully extended ? Presumably if done compressed, when the fork is pumped up and extends again a vacuum will be created in the lowers.


I agree with jton, that sounds about right with the bump-stop. If you didn't hear pressure hiss out of the damper as you loosened the top nut thats a good sign. if the travel is feeling sticky you may want to pull your lowers and make sure they are properly oiled and lubed up. People will disagree with this but i like to burp the lowers fully compressed, the vacuum in the lowers it creates makes it more plush off the top but will pull a unweighted fork a few mm into its travel so don't be surprised when you measure after pumping the fork up. In reality the air seeps back into the lowers and balances out after a couple rides so it doesn't really matter.


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## Walnut79 (Nov 27, 2017)

Thanks jton219 and chize for your replies. I think I'll just ride it for a bit now and keep an eye on it. At least I can release pressure in the topcap now if I need to. If it begins to lose again I'll do your technique Chize to grease the damper rod seals, but am trying to avoid it tbh. I have the little footnut tool and have already had them apart when I moved the travel pin but I'm a little daunted by fidlding with the damper side..I tried to lookup a picture of the plastic ring / seal you were talking about but couldn't find one. Before I do that I wondered if I might try sucking a little oil out of the damper with a syringe from above because it was full to the brim.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Walnut79 said:


> full to the brim.


Surprised you can get anything like full travel with it full. If you remove the damper side top cap with the fork full extended the oil should only just be covering the little ring you can see. Full to the top with the fork full compressed is also too full.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

I asked a local suspension shop to adjust the travel on my near new velvet from 80mm to 120mm but they said "the threads on the air spring were crossed threaded and even after using a big sledge hammer and heat they could not move it". The fork is still at 80mm and appears to work fine but I'd really like the travel increased to 120. Any idea what the local shop was struggling with? Do I need a new air spring?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

noosa2 said:


> I asked a local suspension shop to adjust the travel on my near new velvet from 80mm to 120mm but they said "the threads on the air spring were crossed threaded and even after using a big sledge hammer and heat the could not move it". The fork is still t 80mm and appears to work fine but I'd really like the travel increased to 120. Any idea what the local shop was struggling with? Do I need a new air spring?


No, you need a new shop that either will 1) warranty a defective product, or 2) admit they screwed it up and fix it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## jton219 (Oct 7, 2009)

which threads? the foot nut, or top cap? I fit is near new, and the threads are stripped by the factory or the shop, get it warrantied. It is not even about adjusting the travel, it is about being able to service it later.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

jton219 said:


> which threads? the foot nut, or top cap? I fit is near new, and the threads are stripped by the factory or the shop, get it warrantied. It is not even about adjusting the travel, it is about being able to service it later.


I'm not sure what threads. I assumed they were talking about the nut (?) that requires the pin spanner but I that would seem really though to strip or cross thread.


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

Is the 150mm version of RL2 Sweep adjustable to 140mm of travel? I thought they were adjustable in 20mm increments, by setting the pin to 80,100,120,140,160 position. Not sure where the 150mm version fits in.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

they're adjustable in finer increments using spacers you put between that pin-fixed spring stop and the spring itself
you can make those as thin or thick as you want


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

bruto said:


> they're adjustable in finer increments using spacers you put between that pin-fixed spring stop and the spring itself
> you can make those as thin or thick as you want


So a factory 150mm Sweep would have pin set at 140mm with 10mm spacer than can be removed to achieve 140mm travel? So basically, all different travel RL2 Sweeps have the same internals?


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

I don't know
take it apart and see 

anyway, adding spacers to reduce travel is way easier than messing with that pin
the rod diameter is 9mm I think, so 9x30mm puck with a slit to slide it on and off the rod, machined out of any plastic you can find (delrin, nylon) will do the job


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

I was considering buying a new take off RL2 Sweep, but unfortunately it is already gone.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

spacers, oil, damper removal/install tool and socket bit are usually much cheaper than replacing the fork
find someone who knows his way with a lathe and a milling machine and have them make you a bunch of those spacers

XF RL2 forks are a Lego, not a spaceship (as are many others, like Manitou)


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## Walnut79 (Nov 27, 2017)

To achieve 150mm you would leave the pin at 160mm and add a 10mm spacer. I think a skateboard truck bushing would work nicely. I've used these as makeshift bottomless tokens in various rockshocks before and reckon they would work here too although it's a different application. 

Also note that the true travel you achieve depends upon the pressure you set the fork at I think. For example mine is set to 140mm, and I ride at about 65-70psi. At this pressure the negative spring force+stiction overcomes the positive air pressure pushing back against it and gives me about 134-136mm travel because the fork does't quite fully extend so I'm starting already about 5mm into it's travel. However I can extend the fork another 5mm or so by hand then to and it will then give it's full 140mm. If you pump it up over 100psi up to 120psi then the positive air pressure overcomes the negative coil spring and you end up with closer to 150mm true travel/ starting point is goverened by the extension/compresssion of the negative coil as your starting point. Well that's my reasoning anyway maybe others can correct me if I'm wrong. 

It took me a lot of ballache and fiddling with the greasing damper internals, playing with damper oil levels etc and help from others here before I realised this is what's actually accouting for my slight lack of travel ( at least in my case) so hope it helps somebody!


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

I am needing to replace my seals, what is the best brand to get? I am looking between the xfusion ones, skf and Enduro. Any others?


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## GraemeDuane (May 24, 2017)

I bought SKF off Amazon. Had them in for over a year now. They're great.


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## tronchoni (Jan 16, 2017)

I have used SKF as well, the foam ring in the xfusion is quite thick so I recommend the SKF kit for Ohlins / X-Fusion 34mm (from 2015 ahead), model SKMTB34OX.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

I am interested in adding oil to the air spring, does anyone know how much and what kind to add? Do you just remove the top air cap and pour it in?


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

you can remove the left leg topcap, compress the fork completely and see how much room exactly is left there (the air volume at full compression)
It would be wise not to add more oil than that 

as far as the type of oil - anything goes
it's not used for damping purposes, not much is required of it other than taking up space and being incompressible
I suppose high lubricity oil is better than the opposite


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

tronchoni said:


> I have used SKF as well, the foam ring in the xfusion is quite thick so I recommend the SKF kit for Ohlins / X-Fusion 34mm (from 2015 ahead), model SKMTB34OX.


I orders some and the picture had it coming with the seals , foam rings and 2 small plastic rings and 2 small black rings. It didn't have the small black rings does that matter?
A picture at the link below.

SKF X-Fusion/Ohlins Seal Kit | Jenson USA


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## tronchoni (Jan 16, 2017)

Hi Nashwillis, no, you just need the seals and the foam rings.


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

nashwillis said:


> I orders some and the picture had it coming with the seals , foam rings and 2 small plastic rings and 2 small black rings. It didn't have the small black rings does that matter?
> A picture at the link below.
> 
> SKF X-Fusion/Ohlins Seal Kit | Jenson USA


Nashwillis,
Careful, I ordered what I think is that same set and the seals did not fit the X fusion fork.
They were too large.
I ended up needing the "fox 34" seals for an Xfusion sweep.


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## ogle.benjamin (Jan 10, 2010)

*What is this?*

Hi All, I apologize in advance for somewhat of a noob question, but does anyone know what this rubber piece is for? It fell out while I was draining the lower legs (I honestly wasn't expecting anything to fall out and didn't note which leg it came from). I'm in the process of performing the roughcut upgrade and am not sure if it is even needed. Thanks!


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

ogle.benjamin said:


> Hi All, I apologize in advance for somewhat of a noob question, but does anyone know what this rubber piece is for? It fell out while I was draining the lower legs (I honestly wasn't expecting anything to fall out and didn't note which leg it came from). I'm in the process of performing the roughcut upgrade and am not sure if it is even needed. Thanks!
> 
> View attachment 1183173


Bottom out bumper.
Both legs have these in the bottom.
Just look in the legs and see which one is missing it and slide it back down.


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## ogle.benjamin (Jan 10, 2010)

ac1000 said:


> Bottom out bumper.
> Both legs have these in the bottom.
> Just look in the legs and see which one is missing it and slide it back down.


Thank you!


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## Dimm (Feb 24, 2018)

Hello everybody, i've got a problem with my Velvet DLA, the travel is only 130mm and 100mm with activated DLA, i just can not extend the fork to 140mm, the air piston reach its top but the visible stanchions are still 130mm, i just don't get why this happens, does anyone know where may be the problem? There is no spacers inside.


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## kendunn (Sep 9, 2013)

Was talking to X-Fusion about updating my RL2 Trace to Roughcut. They sent me this link, $14 for 4 oz, lol. Is it really that much of an upgrade? Also they said they had upgraded or regular seals, thoughts? Is the ROughcut a worth upgrade? I kind of get the feeling the reviews are mixed. Does it just add more rebound and dampening twisters? http://www.xfusionshox.com/images/pdf/Fork-Fluid-Update.docx


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Leg lube is leg lube. 32oz of fox gold is $12 at jenson, so I went that route. Im sure pure slick is great, but so is fox gold. 

Roughcut adds independent high and low speed compression adjustments. RL2 has no compression adjustments at all, just a lockout. 

I actually like the RL2 damper and its valved almost where I want it anyway. I think I can reshim it to get it exactly where I want it (just a tad less HSC). If I had a roughcut damper, id likely be tuning it to feel like where my RL2 is at now, so its a bit of a wash. 

Im also 215lb and I prefer a stiff, almost harsh fork. People these days seem to be chasing as much tiny bump compliance as possible, so for them the roughcut would be the way to go.


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## kendunn (Sep 9, 2013)

One Pivot said:


> Leg lube is leg lube. 32oz of fox gold is $12 at jenson, so I went that route. Im sure pure slick is great, but so is fox gold.
> 
> Roughcut adds independent high and low speed compression adjustments. RL2 has no compression adjustments at all, just a lockout.
> 
> ...


Kind of the same line of thoughts I have. I have a Cane Creek shock with the extra tuning, and while its nice and all, like you I feel the X-Fusion is pretty close to what I would want anyway, and its hard to get much slicker than oil on rubber! I think I will go with the SKF seals and regular suspension oil


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

I’ve done the upgrade to the HLR on both mine and my wife’s sweep, I find it made a pretty big difference. I like the RL2 as well, but what I found is it was like riding a jackhammer over fast repetitive hits (a section on big tree roots 20 - 30 feet or so). The HLR just follows the trail and is very smooth. Better than my Pike RCT3 by a good bit. I did not tell my wife that I upgraded her’s but after the first ride she asked if I had done something, it “was so smooth” over those roots. I’m 225 and she is approx 130 so the range seems pretty good for us.


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## kendunn (Sep 9, 2013)

Aresab said:


> I've done the upgrade to the HLR on both mine and my wife's sweep, I find it made a pretty big difference. I like the RL2 as well, but what I found is it was like riding a jackhammer over fast repetitive hits (a section on big tree roots 20 - 30 feet or so). The HLR just follows the trail and is very smooth. Better than my Pike RCT3 by a good bit. I did not tell my wife that I upgraded her's but after the first ride she asked if I had done something, it "was so smooth" over those roots. I'm 225 and she is approx 130 so the range seems pretty good for us.


Good to know, that blind test speaks volumes, and comparing to the Pike RCT3 is certainly good to hear. Did you just put in standard 7.5 weight oil or did you get X-fusions? Which seals and grease did you use? Thanks a bunch


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Neither oil, I have had good luck with 5W30 full synthetic from Castrol (Edge I believe). I use it in all my forks and they always feel buttery smooth. I have some RS oil they recommend for the Pike, but honestly the Castrol feels better. I have tried fork oil in the past to use as lower bath oil and it was not good, very notchy feeling. Some use Fox gold, I have not tried that but I'm sure it's good too. Also, use lots of slick honey grease on the seals and top bushing. The XF forks are pretty awesome with the HLR, just a smidge below my Manitou Mattoc/Mastadon but definitely ahead of my Pike. 

If you read through this thread and maybe a few others, many will complain about the repetitive hits being harsh. When I spoke with XF directly it was in the deign, I believe to achieve the lockout. It's a very good fork as an RL2 for most riding, but here in NJ, we have lots of roots and in a few spots on the 2 trails we ride it can shake your filings loose. It's still tunable with shims, but I don't think you can get it close to the HLR. If you plan to keep the bike and have experienced the harsh high-speed repetitive hits, go for it.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I get castrol edge from work for free, so I've used that a lot too. Its incomparable to fox gold, the gold is so much slicker! It's a pretty crazy oil.

Anyone still hanging on to the rl2 dampers? Im pretty happy with mine! Switched to fox gold, maxima plush ,3wt and reshimmed the mid valve. Looking forward to a first ride this weekend!

Also, it looks incredibly easy to drill another detent between the two for a three position damper. That could allow open to be more open. It would take some messing with to get the high speed stack to make sense, but maybe worth a go.


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## jjames0302 (Apr 26, 2013)

*Swap dampers or New Fork*

All, I have an RL2 Sweep @ 140mm that I would like to switch to HLR. HLR damper is $220 maybe more if I don't do the swap myself.
My other thought is to buy a Metric HLR off eBay for $460. I know the Metric is 160/180mm. Could I throw a "token" in there to get the travel to my desired 140mm? The benefit would be that I have a new fork that I could use in the future if I go longer travel on another bike and it has the sweet black stanchions.
Thoughts?


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm sure the metric is great and all, but it's a full pound heavier. I try not to be too much of a weenie, but that's a lot.


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## jjames0302 (Apr 26, 2013)

Looks like 263 grams or 0.58 lbs. Not an insignificant amount...
But weight aside, are there other concerns? Looks like I could also drill the shaft...that is starting to sound more complex though...There is a machine shop nearby...I am sure they could easily do it.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Question for those smarter than me.
I would have thought that if my 2013 Trace was set at 140mm of travel (max travel for this fork) that I would have roughly 140mm of exposed stanchion? Or is it not quite that simple and there is 10mm or so of unused travel on these?


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

Yep there's quite a bit of stanchion showing on full compression on this fork.


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## GraemeDuane (May 24, 2017)

The older forks have these big fat white foam bottom out bumpers. Mine also does this, and I think its because of the size of the bumper. My new XF Sweep has the thinner rubber ones, and meets it's travel spec.


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## kendunn (Sep 9, 2013)

I put new seals in my Trace and noticed the bushings were starting to look rough, a little bit of white (teflon?) had flaked off. They still seem tight, but is this the beginning of the end of them? I understand its not user serviceable to replace bushings, anyone know the cost at the US service center?


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## govertime (Apr 4, 2007)

*RL2 Failed Twice - Warranty/Service Disappointing*

For the 2nd time now, an upper damper cartridge broke on my 34mm Sweep. Both had no signs of issues and were serviced regularly. Both broke on mild drops, one of which I've done countless times before.

The 1st was early last Spring. I sent it into X-Fusion before they moved their warranty/service to a 3rd party (MadSuspension). They charged me what I considered a small amount, which seemed arbitrary but accepted as it seemed like an anomaly at the time and I just wanted it to be back in one piece.

The 2nd time was this past weekend. Same exact thing. Now I was ticked off.









As you can see the photo, both broke in the same location. Also, the lockout pin attached to the low speed compression needle is jammed up in the Open position. It is evident something caused the Low Speed Compression (LSC) needle to forcefully move upward, jamming the lockout pin and breaking the upper damper cartridge/shaft.

Others have had the same issue...
http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/official-xfusion-rl2-fork-service-tuning-thread-910996-3.html#post11986372
http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/official-xfusion-rl2-fork-service-tuning-thread-910996-5.html#post12717949

To date, I have not received any credible explanation for why this occurs. There is no physical part that could forcefully shift/move into the LSC needle. The only explanation I can think of is some unexplained pressure unable to adequately escape through the shimstack/blowoff. I just received the usual scapegoats (riding above intended use - nonsense since the RL2 was the standard damper across the entire range before Roughcut; not service - simply not true; lockout could've been on - pin is clearly jammed in Open).

With X-Fusion no longer handling warranty/service in-house, MadSuspension could not/would not replace the part under warranty even though it has happened twice now, since it happened the 2nd time a few months outside the supposed 1 year part warranty. I was denied any goodwill cost-sharing/discount towards replacing the part nor upgrade to a hopefully more reliable Roughcut damper (even if I did the service in either case myself). MadSuspension could very well have their hands tied since they are a 3rd party and/or are not incentivised to extend anything.

What I take from all of this is...
1. the RL2 has an inexplainable design flaw that can fail unexpectedly
2. if you have any issues with X-Fusion products, don't expect much consideration/goodwill if you have any issues, unlike in the past.

Personally, I'm going to give the Roughcut a shot (but even that has its downsides...zero service/technical documentation, part availability questionable, etc) but after having bought both a Velvet and Sweep I seriously question getting another X-Fusion fork/shock, particularly with this peculiar 3rd party/contracted warranty/service arrangement.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

I used to love how xfusion handled service, emailed/talked to them many times about various xfusion products ive owned. Was super bummed when they moved it to MadSuspension, now you cant even talk directly to xfusion. SUCKS.


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

govertime said:


> What I take from all of this is...
> 1. the RL2 has an inexplainable design flaw that can fail unexpectedly
> 2. if you have any issues with X-Fusion products, don't expect much consideration/goodwill if you have any issues, unlike in the past.
> 
> Personally, I'm going to give the Roughcut a shot (but even that has its downsides...zero service/technical documentation, part availability questionable, etc) but after having bought both a Velvet and Sweep I seriously question getting another X-Fusion fork/shock, particularly with this peculiar 3rd party/contracted warranty/service arrangement.


Yep, I had some issues that when Xfusion was in Santa Cruz they would have probably just taken care of me but Mad Suspension would not. He doesn't get compensated to go above and beyond so it's pretty understandable. But it sucks for owners of Xfusion products as they had pretty stellar customer service before.


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## kendunn (Sep 9, 2013)

I'm less than thrilled with MAD Suspension. Hard to get a response, usually have to email multiple times, no one answers phone.. I bought an XFusion shock new off Ebay. I understand that is a little iffy as far as warranty, but I had trouble with it right away and called MAD and told them who I had bought it from, they said send it in which I did. I got an email saying they didn't import it and wasn't covered under warranty, which I understand but wasn't happy that I went to the trouble to send it in and said something about that (but wasn't rude). I got a reply saying that he thought I meant another dealer in DC with a similar name. I was actually thinking about buying a Roughcut damper so I thought I would go through this dealer in DC since it was closer. So I call them up and ask the owner if they are an XF dealer, he said he didn't do motorcycles, lol. I explained it was for mtn bikes and he said he didn't know anything about being a dealer. I'm really loving my Pike on my new bike, would like to have one to replace my Trace


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Im really enjoying my tuned sweep, but this is a very disappointing turn of events for warranty, and for service. Bummed that roughcut has zero support too.

I've had no problems with mine, but spending money on a damper upgrade seems like a bad idea. 

Anyone from XF on the board?


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## tronchoni (Jan 16, 2017)

Hi Govertime, same thing happened to me, exact same spot (like many other people), just under the cap where it gets thinner.
In Spain there are two years warranty, it blowed up (in a mellow jump, nothing harsh) a couple of months after the warranty expiring time, and I have to say that I contacted X-fusion and they told the official Spanish distributor to service the fork by installing a new damper. It wasn't for free as the distributor told me to pay for a "service fork" since they were going to service oil and seals... I was fine with that, since I was going to get a damper under warranty for two more years.

The conclusion is that I was very happy with the X-fusion service, but that I will never pay for an X-fusion RL2 damper again or recommend anyone to do it since they clearly have a problem. It could have been just a stock of bad RL2 dampers but I don't think this is the case anymore, since it happened twice to you (if they would have identify the problem I don't think they would have given you a bad one again).

It's a pity, the forks performs very well (if it doesn't blow up).


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I think maybe the stock tune is so harsh that it fatigues the damper.

Are you guys who broke the rl2 unit running stock tunes?


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## tronchoni (Jan 16, 2017)

Mine was on a RM altitude, I know that the shock was tuned for RM by Fox, but no idea about the fork...


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## govertime (Apr 4, 2007)

One Pivot said:


> I think maybe the stock tune is so harsh that it fatigues the damper.
> 
> Are you guys who broke the rl2 unit running stock tunes?


Yes, I've always been on X-Fusion stock shim stacks/tunes.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

hey folks.

ii've just ordered this: https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...rer-15mm-axle-black?nosto=productpage-nosto-3

i'm thinking the travel is adjustable on this fork from 100 to 160?

if so, what is the default travel setting out of the box?


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

shekky said:


> hey folks.
> 
> ii've just ordered this: https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...rer-15mm-axle-black?nosto=productpage-nosto-3
> 
> ...


160 according to the specs. It is just like any other fork that can be travel adjusted. What ever the model number travel it is called is what it is set at. It isn't that hard to change the travel though. I changed the travel on my Slide from 100 to 120 without any issues.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

huckleberry hound said:


> 160 according to the specs. It is just like any other fork that can be travel adjusted. What ever the model number travel it is called is what it is set at. It isn't that hard to change the travel though. I changed the travel on my Slide from 100 to 120 without any issues.


thank you. i'll ask my shop to set the travel at install.


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## s0ul_chicken (Aug 1, 2013)

shekky said:


> hey folks.
> 
> ii've just ordered this: https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...rer-15mm-axle-black?nosto=productpage-nosto-3
> 
> ...


Man, I got lucky! I was able to get my 160mm Sweep for 235. I just ordered in all the tools I need to install the Roughcut damper and go with a full service. Great thread!!


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## s0ul_chicken (Aug 1, 2013)

Something else I had just found for anyone looking for viscosity numbers on different fork oils, hope it helps! Viscosity Data link.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

just had my sweep installed and rode it for the first time saturday. forgot to check the air before i set out and did a twenty three mile ride with lots of fire road climbing with less that 70psi, where it's recommended i run 85psi at my weight. the LBS set the travel for me at 140mm.

we set the compression damping settings halfway in, as well as the rebound. i'll play with these more as i ride the fork.

i immediately noticed how much stiffer and responsive the front end of the bike was compared to the stock recon silver on my hawk hill. i do notice the fork dives somewhat under hard braking, but i'm thinking that might have been because i wasn't running a high enough psi.


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## Frywyn10 (Aug 1, 2018)

Hello, i have a XF Metric in 180mm that i want to lower to 100mm for my dirtjumper. Is it possible if i drill the shaft ? No hydraulic problems can occur ?


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

Frywyn10 said:


> Hello, i have a XF Metric in 180mm that i want to lower to 100mm for my dirtjumper. Is it possible if i drill the shaft ? No hydraulic problems can occur ?


You might be able to just clip 8 x 10mm plastic spacers in there.
Or adjust it down to 160mm and put 6 spacers in.
You'd probably also need to put a bunch of grease on the top of the air spring to make the fork more progressive after the change.

Call there service guy (mad suspension) and see his opinion.


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## Frywyn10 (Aug 1, 2018)

ac1000 said:


> You might be able to just clip 8 x 10mm plastic spacers in there.
> Or adjust it down to 160mm and put 6 spacers in.
> You'd probably also need to put a bunch of grease on the top of the air spring to make the fork more progressive after the change.
> 
> Call there service guy (mad suspension) and see his opinion.


Hello, thanks for helping, unfortunatly i'm French and my english is not enougth good to call somebody in the usa. What spacers do you have in mind ? Fox , or regular pvc tube cut to length ? For the air chamber, you mean to add air volume reducers into it ?
Thanks


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

Frywyn10 said:


> Hello, thanks for helping, unfortunatly i'm French and my english is not enougth good to call somebody in the usa. What spacers do you have in mind ? Fox , or regular pvc tube cut to length ? For the air chamber, you mean to add air volume reducers into it ?
> Thanks


The normal way to change travel on that fork is to push out a pin a push it back into the correct hole.
Other xfusion forks work like that also, but you can also clip plastic spacers underneath the pin to further reduce the travel.

https://www.peterverdone.com/x-fusion-guts/

Look at his picture labeled "travel adjust." He has moved the pin and clipped on a "U" shaped spacer.

I don't know where to buy those spacers, but if you are thinking of drilling a hole in the shaft I bet you could make one.

I haven't personally been inside a Metric fork so use your best judgement.

For the air chamber, you might like the fork without adding anything, but you may find it bottoms out really easy after changing the travel so drastically. So you might need to add a bunch of grease to the top of the air piston in order to reduce the air spring volumne. Let out the air, unscrew the top of the fork on the air side, add 30cc of slick honey grease and close it.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Drill a hole in a piece of wood, and punch out the pin. Their recommendation of using an arbor press is excessive unless you're doing this every day.

If you guys didn't do the HSC and LSC tuning mods, you really, really should. It's very easy and makes a HUGE difference.


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## Frywyn10 (Aug 1, 2018)

One Pivot said:


> Drill a hole in a piece of wood, and punch out the pin. Their recommendation of using an arbor press is excessive unless you're doing this every day.
> 
> If you guys didn't do the HSC and LSC tuning mods, you really, really should. It's very easy and makes a HUGE difference.


Thanks, do you have a link to the hsc and lsc compression mod ?


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

It's on page 1-2 of this thread. It's just rearranging shims to cut down on preload.


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## Faxurda (Sep 28, 2015)

Can I modify my Slant fork (26) to accept 27.5 wheel ?


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Yes, add a 10mm spacer on top of the bottom out spacer. Xfusion sells one.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

If I recall, the older ones that accept only a 200mm post mount & use a Syntace axle may not work (or as well), the newer version with the Lockx axle & 180mm post mount work just fine with 27.5. They are the same lowers as the sweep however crown and offset are different. I’ve been running the newer one for 2 years as a 27.5. I did not need the 10mm spacer but I’m running 2.3 minion tires, definitely check with your setup to avoid potentially expensive medical bills. I let all of the air out and I have a good 10 or so mm of gap at bottom out.


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## styf (Sep 15, 2018)

Hi, this is an awesome thread with lots of tips! I have a Slant rl2 and the lower legs developed a noticeable play, so I figured I need to replace the bushings. I haven't been able to find them anywhere so I'm also thinking about trying the Fox 34mm bushings: https://www.hibike.com/fox-lower-le...sion-fork-n-p6446e88c8718f2ca9fc23822876e9acb as the Fox seals work perfectly. 
Can anyone confirm that?


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

styf said:


> Hi, this is an awesome thread with lots of tips! I have a Slant rl2 and the lower legs developed a noticeable play, so I figured I need to replace the bushings. I haven't been able to find them anywhere so I'm also thinking about trying the Fox 34mm bushings: https://www.hibike.com/fox-lower-le...sion-fork-n-p6446e88c8718f2ca9fc23822876e9acb as the Fox seals work perfectly.
> Can anyone confirm that?


Have you tried the X-Fusion service center in your country?
CZECH REPUBLIC - SERVICE
KG BIKE
Kamil Giercuszkiewicz 
Jaselská 1195/2 
Havířov, 73601 
tel + 420 608018374
[email protected]


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## kendunn (Sep 9, 2013)

Are you sure you can remove the bushings? I know on my Trace you can't replace and have to buy the whole lower at substantial cost. DIdn't like that at all and switched to a Suntour Aurion PCS RC2. As I understand it, my Pike is the same, bushing bad=new lowers.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

why can't you? they aren't glued in and they were inserted during the assembly
means they can be removed


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## kendunn (Sep 9, 2013)

See post 652 above.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

http://forums.mtbr.com/tooltime/diy-fork-bushing-removal-installation-772499.html
the problem is finding the bushings themselves - ask around
Joel Silver at their HQ was very helpful up until XF turned over their North American support duties to QBP, he may still be working there and answer e-mails in between more important things


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Qbp is involved now? Qbp sucks. A lot. Mad suspension wasn't very helpful either.

I retired my sweep after a season and went to a mattoc. I might have kept the sweep and did the hlr upgrade, but there's no service and tuning support.


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## s0ul_chicken (Aug 1, 2013)

So, I got a 120mm Slide for the hardtail, but when I received it, I was unable to turn the rebound knob, nor did the lockout work. Brand new fork, called Mad Suspension, mailed it in and in about two weeks had my fork back. All that was listed on the receipt was a fork oil change to Torco Med. I started riding the bike with the new fork, but it was harsh as all hell, and sometimes I would have to forcefully push down on the handlebars just to get the fork to start moving again. I don't ride my hardtail much, maybe six rides so far this year. After putting in an HLR into my Sweep, I figured I could tackle getting into the Slide to see what gives.

*NOT A DROP OF OIL IN EITHER LOWER. Seals were only partially wet with oil. Nice one Mad Suspension... I appreciate such kick ass QA. I think I will rely on thy self from now on.*

Now that I fixed that issue, I thought I would tear into the Sweep RL2 and check out the shim situation. There are only two shims in this '16 model, a 10mm with an 8mm face. Not sure what is in my Slide RL2, but I need to get a few rides in with some oil in the system before I go tearing into that fork again.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Hi everybody, 

I've got a Trace RL2 that started clunking on rebound. When I tore into it, I found that the larger of the two coil negative springs has cracked in two, and 3/4 of a small o-ring fell out as well. I'm looking for help sourcing parts- either that particular spring, or the entire spring cartridge assembly. Anybody have any leads as to where to source these parts? Or any contact info for x-fusion? I left a voicemail for MAD suspension but haven't heard back yet. I'd also be interested in purchasing these parts or a whole cheap parts fork if anyone on the board has a dead fork that they're not using. 

Thanks!


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I posted to xfusions facet page a few times with no response at all. No response from mad suspension at all.

I dunno. Good luck. This is the end of xfusion. Forks are useless if you can't find anything for them.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

contact QBP
but it might be easier to buy a used/for parts 34mm fork from ebay
a spring from a 32mm fork (Velvet, X32, RC32) might work too - try sending an email to whatever contact is listed on XF main site

I mean, negative spring coil is not damper or even air piston
there's some wiggle room with using replacements that are not exact copies of the one that broke


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Thanks for the responses guys. Just wanted to post a quick update... it took a few tries to get him on the phone but Mike from MAD suspension is sending me a new negative spring for a super reasonable price. Once the conversation got started, he was very responsive and quick to ship the part. My trace isn't dead yet.


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## mojak (Sep 27, 2005)

Hi, I just sent my sweep RC for servicing and requesting to up the travel from 120 to 130mm. According to my mech, the pin has been moved to the 140mm slot and he added a spacer to make it 130mm. But it seems like now the fork travel changed with air pressure.
Higher pressure around 100psi it will be 130mm stanchion but if I lower the air to my weight around 60psi it dropped back to 120mm, even lower if I let out air to 55psi, stanchion goes to 115mm.
Roughly what is wrong before I go back to the mech? Thank you.


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## Tihead (Oct 5, 2006)

*TRACE RL2 Air-Spring Rebuild Kit, 34mm*

If anyone has purchased the air-spring rebuild kit of a Trace RL2, 34mm fork lately, can you provide the UPC or product number? It seems there are two air-spring rebuild kit versions that I'm finding...
Edit: My mistake, forks were 32mm for so long, my mind was stuck there.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Tihead said:


> *TRACE RL2 Air-Spring Rebuild Kit, 32mm*
> 
> If anyone has purchased the air-spring rebuild kit of a Trace RL2, 32mm fork lately, can you provide the UPC or product number? It seems there are two air-spring rebuild kit versions that I'm finding...


The trace is 34mm, not 32. Are you sure that you're not looking at the rebuild kits for both 32 and 34mm forks?


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## Tihead (Oct 5, 2006)

Oops... Me wrong. I edited the original posting. 32mm on the brain.


GT87 said:


> The trace is 34mm, not 32. Are you sure that you're not looking at the rebuild kits for both 32 and 34mm forks?


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Has anyone modified their Trace rl2 29er fork to be 150mm travel? I'm considering drilling the air shaft to accept a pin 10mm away from the current 140mm position. My main concern would be bushing overlap... I took some rough measurements last time I had the fork apart, and it appeared to be close but acceptable. Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this topic?


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## kendunn (Sep 9, 2013)

GT87 said:


> Has anyone modified their Trace rl2 29er fork to be 150mm travel? I'm considering drilling the air shaft to accept a pin 10mm away from the current 140mm position. My main concern would be bushing overlap... I took some rough measurements last time I had the fork apart, and it appeared to be close but acceptable. Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this topic?


Man you're playing with fire there, I have an old one I would let go cheap if you want to play around, let me know. No axle and bushings going, but otherwise solid and it has brand new SKF seals with no miles (took apart to put in, noticed bushings were going bad, put back together and now its just gathering dust)


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

Sorry if it's been posted. I searched and couldn't find a clear answer. X-Fusion's data is conflicting too. I have a 2018 McQueen. Their latest videos just say 7.5 wt.?. What's everyone using for leg lube and on top of the air piston? Is it a solid plan to use fox gold for the legs, honey all over the air piston and seals, and fox gold on top of the air piston?
Some X-Fusion docs say pure slick for both. Some say torco rsf medium. 
I already have some fox gold so it would save me some $.
Thanks


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm using fox gold for all my forks from now on (I don't own anything fox). It's a good call. Great fluid as long as it's above freezing.


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## Tr1stan.xg (Apr 8, 2019)

I’ve got a 2014 velvet rl2 that makes a knocking noise when I drop the front end of my bike.

It’s not the headset, not the wheel bearings, definitely the fork as I get the same sound from knocking the removed fork against a wooden chair.

I opened the fork up yesterday and to the untrained eye, nothing looked off. The one thing I did notice however was that with the lowers off, the air spring could move around in the stanchion, enough that the piston bit that sticks out the bottom of the stanchion through the cap that you have to remove with the pin spanner could knock against the hole in that cap. Sorry that looks like a crap explanation :/ I can get a pick if it really helps.

What else could be causing the knocking sound? It’s not so noticeable with the fork locked out.


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

Maybe something inside the damper? The motion of the air piston shaft as you describe is normal.
With the legs off and the uppers held firmly, try to activate the damper by hand. Be careful not to cause too much deflection, but just move the damper rod in and out to see if it is clunky.
Another possibility may be that you run little air pressure and you hear the fork bounce off of the "top out" spring.?
Not sure I'm trying to earn these forks myself still.

I have rebuilt Foxes and Marz over the years, and while these are similar, they are a bit different in what they "like". 

An update on my fluid situation and a question:
So after much research and discussion, I settled on Red Line Medium for the leg lube. And as suggested, I also used the same for the top of the air piston. 
All went well with the service though now I have significant stiction. Small bump sensitivity is suffering badly. This fork was always butter smooth with no stiction so I'm quite disappointed. 
What now, try to source some of X-Fusion's almost impossible to find fluid or something else? 
Who has had good luck with fox gold in these things?


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## Tr1stan.xg (Apr 8, 2019)

JaxMustang50 said:


> Maybe something inside the damper? The motion of the air piston shaft as you describe is normal.
> With the legs off and the uppers held firmly, try to activate the damper by hand. Be careful not to cause too much deflection, but just move the damper rod in and out to see if it is clunky.
> Another possibility may be that you run little air pressure and you hear the fork bounce off of the "top out" spring.?
> Not sure I'm trying to earn these forks myself still.


I hope it's not the damper 
I'll open them up again when I get a chance but I did cycle the damper last time and didn't notice any clunkiness. I did notice however that movement of the rod into the damper wasn't totally smooth.

When you say "Be careful not to cause too much deflection" do you mean don't compress the damper rod all the way? Because that's exactly what I did. :/

I run 60-65psi in the fork, does that explain anything re the top out spring thing?

And as for the leg lube, I use pretty standard 7.5wt suspension oil I got off eBay and slick honey on the seals. With this is it noticeably plusher than when I got it (second hand). If it wasn't for the  knocking sound it would be a dream.


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

Tr1stan•xg said:


> When you say "Be careful not to cause too much deflection" do you mean don't compress the damper rod all the way? Because that's exactly what I did. :/
> 
> I run 60-65psi in the fork, does that explain anything re the top out spring thing?


I meant side to side deflection, you are fine. I just meant to keep it centered as possible as you move it.

I'm not sure on the 60psi but I know my fork has a minimum recommended pressure. I can't remember what it is but I think it's 60 psi. It may be possible that the knock is it bouncing off and on the top out spring as there may not be enough pressure to hold it tightly against it. Does it knock while riding?


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## Tr1stan.xg (Apr 8, 2019)

JaxMustang50 said:


> I meant side to side deflection, you are fine. I just meant to keep it centered as possible as you move it.
> 
> I'm not sure on the 60psi but I know my fork has a minimum recommended pressure. I can't remember what it is but I think it's 60 psi. It may be possible that the knock is it bouncing off and on the top out spring as there may not be enough pressure to hold it tightly against it. Does it knock while riding?


I pumped it up to 80psi but it still knocks. Pretty sure 60 isn't the lowest, I'll check tomorrow but it goes a fair bit lower.
And yes it knocks while riding.


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

Is the noise just a sound or can you feel it in the fork as well? 
When you say "drop the front end", do you mean you just pick it up a few inches and drop it? how much force is required?
Does it only knock when moving off of full extension or throughout its travel?


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## Tr1stan.xg (Apr 8, 2019)

Pretty sure it’s just a sound.
Basically it makes the noise either if I raise the front end about an inch off the ground and drop it, or about 5mm into a compression. It doesn’t make the noise if I compress the fork very slowly.
Another thing I just noticed is that with the fork locked out it still has about 10mm travel. Is that normal?


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

Given that it's just a noise, it makes me think it may be one of the springs on the air shaft getting hung up on something slightly. Check them, the bushings and o-rings, maybe rotate and re-center the springs. Another idea is something inside the damper. I have never had a damper apart so I have no clue what it could be in there. The only other idea I can come up with is the possibility of a loose bushing in the lowers. 
Take it apart again and try to make the noise happen. Maybe use a mechanics stethoscope (or a piece of tubing) to try to hone in on where its coming from.


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

Anyone know where I can get a 10mm travel reducing spacer for my McQueen? 
I recently adjusted the travel to 140, up from 120, but think the sweet spot for this bike would be 130. 
I have had no luck in searching this and can't get a response from Mad. 
My other options would be to either drill another hole in the rod, or make a spacer.
Is is safe to drill another hole - anyone have success with this? 
Anyone make or use another brand's spacer with success?
I'd really prefer a spacer as it's easy to install and remove if needed.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

any 10mm spacer with 9mm ID will do
if you find one with a smaller hole, you can always drill it out or put something on the shaft if it's larger than 9mm

another option is finding someone with a lathe, giving them a piece of plastic (POM works) and have them machine you a 10mm thick donut with 9mm ID/~30mm OD and a slit just under 9mm wide so that it can be installed onto the shaft from the side


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

Beautiful! This is the info I was looking for. Thank you so much.


Also, Tr1, I checked today, I do have a little amount of give right at the top when locked out. Can't be much however and I have to really bounce hard to get into it.


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## Tr1stan.xg (Apr 8, 2019)

The play at the top of mine is basically like normal travel. Doesn’t take much to go into it. I’ll open the up again when I get a chance.

I know x fusion recommend you replace the rubber washers under the footnuts every time you take the fork apart. Does anyone actually do this or how often do you replace them?

Also a couple of unrelated questions I keep meaning to ask - what oil do people put on the seals after each ride, and does it matter that my lockout cap is missing? I don’t use the lockout anyway just wondering if it’s waterproofing or anything.

And jax, if you’re in the uk I have a 10mm spacer you can have.


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

I have not replaced the washers under the footnuts. No leaks so far. It's not a step on their service videos that I have seen either. 

After a ride, I just wipe the stanchions and seals down with a rag soaked with a bit of silicone spray.

Not sure about the lock out cap.


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## Tr1stan.xg (Apr 8, 2019)

Cheers, should be able to open it up again today have a poke around. 
Sorry I thought I’d already replied to this about posting you the spacer, I’m happy to look into postage to the US if you want.


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

Thanks anyways, I was able to make one from a piece of 10mm thick acetyl plastic (POM). 
We have a store that sells small scraps of metals and plastics and I was able to find a small piece for $1. I cut it as bruto describes (though slightly smaller thank 30mm OD) and it works perfectly.
Also an update - I used the Fox Gold this time both in the legs and on the air piston. Simply awesome. No more stiction and my small bump sensitivity has returned. Fork is amazing once again.


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## Tr1stan.xg (Apr 8, 2019)

Took the fork apart again the other day, I couldn't get it to make the sound whatever I did, compressed the damper leg, compressed the air spring, pumped it up to 60psi, only seems to do it assembled. 
I did however notice a few things:
With the fork off the bike dropping it (upright) onto a carpet it makes the noise.
Damper seems a bit funny in that if I pull the leg out so it's level with the air spring leg then compress it, it doesn't return all the way. It also doesn't feel very smooth as I compress it. This video shows what I mean: 




Spring assembly in air spring isn't held securely to the travel adjust c clip thing. The whole assembly can move up and down. Video: 




Damper leg has a slot that looks like it's for a c clip but not c clip. This is probably irrelevant but just thought I'd mention it. I've attached some other pictures I took while I was doing it but can't remember why I took them.

























Also, now it's all back together the lockout does work


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

One Pivot said:


> Yes, add a 10mm spacer on top of the bottom out spacer. Xfusion sells one.


Psyched to see this tread going strong, I haven't had an XF since I sold my velvet and sweep several years ago. I recently ordered a set of newer Enix RL2 forks to replace the crap Suntours on my son and daughters bike. I did the 650b spacer install back in the day on the velvet so no issues doing the work. I'm anticipating having to install one on the new forks since they are 26" forks. It also sounds like getting the spacer is a PITA now. Anyone developed there own? A cut down skateboard truck bushing sounds like a solid plan, any other ideas?


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

Tr1stan.xg said:


> Damper seems a bit funny in that if I pull the leg out so it's level with the air spring leg then compress it, it doesn't return all the way. It also doesn't feel very smooth as I compress it. This video shows what I mean:


I believe this is because you have the damper sideways or inverted enough to let whatever air may be in the bladder into the damper system. Mine does the same if I operate it in an inverted position (past horizontal). It's all smooth when upright in normal riding position.



> Spring assembly in air spring isn't held securely to the travel adjust c clip thing. The whole assembly can move up and down. Video:


This is completely normal.



> Damper leg has a slot that looks like it's for a c clip but not c clip. This is probably irrelevant but just thought I'd mention it.
> 
> Also, now it's all back together the lockout does work


The slot is normal as well.

As for the lockout working; you only had a little play at the top of the stroke iirc. My guess would be there could have been some air caught in the damper somewhere that you dislodged by operating it fully and through different positioning during disassembly and reassembly.

Does it still make the noise now that you have reassembled everything? If so, get a video of that.


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## DrHackenbush (Jun 1, 2019)

Hi

Am new to all this diy fork servicing but so glad to have found this thread as so much great information. Need to pick the collective brains as not really sure about something.

Recently had an issue with my Sweeps in they lost all air and would not reinflate. Noticed one of the seals (SKF) had popped up on one side (air side I think) so decided to strip them down fit new seals as had been a little while since had them done (by J Tech here in UK). 

When I stripped them and poured out the old oil one side (air side ) was like runny mayonaisse. I thought maybe that water had got down inside the seal when cleaned the bike and emulsified. Anyway I cleaned out the legs thoroughly and the stantions so all was spotless, reassembled with new oil and all was well, they inflated and held pressure over a couple of days.

However in my haste to reassemble I forgot to install the little springs on the seals
which I had taken off when installing them so had to disassemble forks again. 

However I was surpised when pouring out the oil from the lowers again the air side oil was again mayonnaise like, yet things has been spotless before reassembling. The forks had not be installed or ridden and all I had done was just manually pump them up and down to check things working correctly.

So question is what's happening, have I not cleaned things properly, I am sure things should be like that?

thanks in advance for any replies.


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

look inside the air spring
if it can't hold pressure, then it's the air piston seal that failed


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

Did you clean inside of the stanchion tubes carefully as well?
Is the oil on top of the air piston leaking past the piston and into the lower leg?


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## DrHackenbush (Jun 1, 2019)

I didn't undo the circular plate with holes in (which you have to remove to do the travel adjustment). I just grabbed the rod worked it and down a fair bit and cleaned any of the "mayo" off it. 

So has the "mayo" been forced up there and so will then start mixing with the fresh oil contanimating it as soon as put them back together and start using them?

I didn't take the top cap off as didn't have a tool to do it, have got hold of one now. Sounds like I may need to remove everything and clean inside the air stantion properly?


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## JaxMustang50 (Jun 26, 2017)

I think it's likely. Some mayo was trapped behind the lower circular plate with the holes. There is some space in there - needed for the negative springs and top-out bumper.
Nothing should be on top of the air piston besides the recommended amount of oil. If it's holding air, you most likely don't have to worry about the "mayo" being above the piston. May be wise to replace the seal however, to avoid future hassle.


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## DrHackenbush (Jun 1, 2019)

Suppose what am worried about is if oil gets contaminated will it still provide sufficient lubrication? There are some faint marks on the stantion, not sure how long they have been there or whether that is just normal wear and tear for a 2015 fork as have no experience of servicing them myself. Certainly no mention on the servicing report of any signs of wear from a while ago?


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## Tr1stan.xg (Apr 8, 2019)

Anyone know where to buy the heat shrink for the air spring? Apparently I need 1.5" 1:2 ratio oil resistant but can't find it anywhere.

Also, looking at replacing my seals - how easy is it to do yourself? Or am I best I get the shop to do it?


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## Logoffski (Dec 30, 2011)

Guyz,
had anyone fitted non-original dust seals to 34mm X-fusion forks?

Fox/Ohlins/SKf/etc?
whaf will fit?
thanks!


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## ac1000 (Jan 2, 2014)

Logoffski said:


> Guyz,
> had anyone fitted non-original dust seals to 34mm X-fusion forks?
> 
> Fox/Ohlins/SKf/etc?
> ...


I ran the SKF fox 34mm seal and it fit.
Pretty sure any fox 34mm seal kit will fit.
I ordered a kit that said Ohlins/X fusion 34mm and it did NOT fit strangely enough.


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## Tr1stan.xg (Apr 8, 2019)

If it helps I recently fitted Fox 32 enduro seals to my velvet (32mm), dimensions were exactly the same.


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## Logoffski (Dec 30, 2011)

That's meaningful, thanks!
Had found it also and was step away from order.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

My sweep is leaking oil from the bottom from the red knob rebound. Any ideas why?


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## spaniardclimber (May 9, 2005)

I have a strange issue with my Trace rl2.
So if I remove all air then add it with fork upside down, all is good for a few rides.

Then if I use the lockout and travel adjust I start getting a ‘clunk’ when the fork extends completely, as if it had no air in negative chamber.

It’s not just noise, I can feel the clunk while riding.

Any ideas?


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## Crankyanken (Sep 23, 2019)

I am looking for a bit more small bump compliance from my Slide RL2, so I am not sure if I should change the order of the ring shim or go with thinner shims. I am completely new to the shim tune thing, so any direction would be very helpful. BTW, I went to the hardware store and purchased an acorn nut for 45 cents, it covers the end of the rebound shaft so I can smack it with a mallet to loosen the foot nut. 

Here is the shim stack on the Slide RL
18x0.2
18x0.15 (2)
18x0.3 + 16x0.15 (ring and centering shim)
18x0.15 (1)
12x0.15 (2)


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## bradshawbs (May 18, 2014)

*Damper Removal Tools*



gusthedog2009 said:


> I retapped the original damper tool to 10 x 1.25 - perfect fit. C-type damper tool for the newer forks is available on Ebay


I have a Slide with an unflanged footnut over a bonded washer. The threads are M10x1.25/fine.

Which if any of the tools will work?

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=83753


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## Crankyanken (Sep 23, 2019)

bradshawbs said:


> I have a Slide with an unflanged footnut over a bonded washer. The threads are M10x1.25/fine.
> 
> Which if any of the tools will work?
> 
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=83753


It should be the RL2 tool. Since you know the thread pitch, run to a hardware store and get an acorn nut. So all you have to do is get a 13mm socket to remove the footnut, thread that acorn nut three to four turns. It is deep enough to where it will not damage the protruding rebound rod when you go to smack it with a soft mallet. It will work on both sides, both nuts are 13mm.


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## bradshawbs (May 18, 2014)

Crankyanken said:


> It should be the RL2 tool. Since you know the thread pitch, run to a hardware store and get an acorn nut. So all you have to do is get a 13mm socket to remove the footnut, thread that acorn nut three to four turns. It is deep enough to where it will not damage the protruding rebound rod when you go to smack it with a soft mallet. It will work on both sides, both nuts are 13mm.


Mad Suspension got back to me and it's the C-Style tool with the M10x1.25 threads.

I like the idea of the acorn nut, but can't find any with the correct thread and size. 17 or 18 mm wrench size is what I find for M10x1.25 nuts which doesn't fit in the foot-nut space.

I need to make a correction. You could hand tighten a 17mm nut. I think an 13mm socket is 18mm in diameter which does fit in the recess. Still the only acorn nuts I am finding are M10x1.5.

My understanding is the removal tool also helps to pull the damper shaft back into place when reassembling the fork.


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## beecee336 (Jan 7, 2020)

I just picked up a new old stock enix fork for my sons bike. I'm thinking of removing the valve shims completely as my son only weighs about 75-80 pounds. Any suggestions on removing or rearranging the shim stack are appreciated. I work in a machine shop so I'm also considering doing some lockout lever mods to make a "platform" setting


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## bruto (Nov 23, 2014)

if anyone's still interested, the thread size for RL2 damper tool is m8.5x0.75mm
taps start at $16 on ebay
you can make yourself a bunch now if you can't buy the tool itself on amazon or elsewhere with free shipping


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## Walter Mandler (May 18, 2020)

I bought the HLR damper, is the low-speed compression knob supposed to have positive stops at the end of its rotation? The rebound and high-speed knobs both stop once they hit the end range of their adjustment. The low-speed knob just spins endlessly. I've actually had the damper for over a year now, but it has done this since the day I bought it. It has always bothered me, but I thought that maybe it was the intended behavior?


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

beecee336 said:


> I just picked up a new old stock enix fork for my sons bike. I'm thinking of removing the valve shims completely as my son only weighs about 75-80 pounds. Any suggestions on removing or rearranging the shim stack are appreciated. I work in a machine shop so I'm also considering doing some lockout lever mods to make a "platform" setting


I picked up a couple of these (RL2 with black stanchions) and they've been pretty good, I did pull them apart to make sure they had oil when new and they did. I did notice the rl tool didn't fit and it wasn't exactly like my old velvet. I had to use the foot nuts. Have you had a chance to pull the air spring to see if it had the ability to adjust travel?


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## Walnut79 (Nov 27, 2017)

*Shim Stack and travel mods.*

Hi

I've had my Sweep RL2s apart for a full service and decided to have a go at the shim mods well documented on this thread. 2 things:

1. While I was doing the air spring side I found a random little O-Ring (9mm OD/ 6mm ID) that had become wedged in the smaller coils of the negative spring! In the past I've had this all apart to change travel, eventually settling on 150mm by using the 160mm pin position and adding a spare rockshox travel spacer. To install this meant taking the allen bolt off the air shaft to slide the -ve spring.

I can't work out where this bloody O-ring should go! It seems to small to be of use. The larger rings that seal the air shaft on the other parts of -ve spring assy are all still in place. It's way too small to stretch over the the 9mm OD shaft, and I don't think it's meant to go on the allen bolt on the end andd is too big to fit internally in the end of the air shaft! I wonder if it possibly seals the end face of top of air shaft to main piston but can't see that on the drawing.

So I can only assume it's a random O-ring that should never have been there....or maybe it crept in when I was fiddling with it before. Apart from feeling a bit like needing a service, the forks were working fine with it wedged where it was!

2. Shim mods. Here are some (hopefully) clear pics to show the factory arrangment and two-one's suggested highspeed/lockout mod. Thanks to all those that have taken time to describe these mods.

Since a lot of the info is spread throughout this thread, hope it might save someone some trawling!

*I didn't do the midvalve mods because I didn't want to risk getting braking dive as has been mentioned by some.

* I had to grind down a little imperial spanner to about 3mm thick and file it out to 12mm to fit the bastard tight, thin nut that holds it all together, and grip it with Mole grips and a rubber wrap. If you want to take off the little end cup for midvalve mods, you'd take that off first, and need a 2nd pair of grips on that.


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## beecee336 (Jan 7, 2020)

Ramjm_2000 said:


> I picked up a couple of these (RL2 with black stanchions) and they've been pretty good, I did pull them apart to make sure they had oil when new and they did. I did notice the rl tool didn't fit and it wasn't exactly like my old velvet. I had to use the foot nuts. Have you had a chance to pull the air spring to see if it had the ability to adjust travel?


I havent pulled the air spring side. Just the damper side.


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## Snorlaks4447 (Jul 21, 2020)

*I need damper RL2, Help me please!*

My damper rl2 broke, for x fusion sweep fork. 
Who knows where you can buy a damper rl2?
Please, help!

P.s. on the photo rl Velvet, I need rl2 for X-fusion Sweep.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Snorlaks4447 said:


> My damper rl2 broke, for x fusion sweep fork.
> Who knows where you can buy a damper rl2?
> Please, help!
> 
> P.s. on the photo rl Velvet, I need rl2 for X-fusion Sweep.


I've sourced parts from mike at mad racing before:

http://www.madsuspension.com/

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## galio (Sep 15, 2020)

Hello from Bulgaria,
I have a problem with my fork (x-fusion rl2) - the negative spring is broken. 
Where can I buy a new negative spring (air shaft) ?

I came across information from the forums that the spring of the fox float 34 2006-12 is the same (visually it seems to be true)

sorry for my bad english


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

galio said:


> Hello from Bulgaria,
> I have a problem with my fork (x-fusion rl2) - the negative spring is broken.
> Where can I buy a new negative spring (air shaft) ?
> 
> ...


Your English is very good!

I had the same issue with my trace rl2... the larger of the two negative springs broke. I was able to source a new one from mad racing:
http://www.madsuspension.com/

Not sure if that's much help for you in bulgaria, but good luck.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## Patrick_spider (Oct 8, 2020)

What is the case; (I'm so good at explaining: oops 


I have converted my perfectly working Velvet RL2 yesterday from 130mm to 120mm. Normally not a problem at all. I already have experience with the Xfusion Sweep RL2 where it was always so easy.
Now I have a kind of threshold / toink halfway through the suspension during the (fast) compression. Mainly by ear but also a little by feeling. It does remain smooth in its travel. At first it sounded like scraping but on closer inspection it seemed to be more on the damper side and oil related. (Sounds like a short slurp of air in oil or oil that seems to hit a schimstack, checkvalve or orphise. But that seems strange to me, because there seems to be enough oil in the damper side, lockout also works. T


All oil levels are correct regarding the open bath (15cc per side) and the air chamber (yes, 10cc needs to be in ...)
Now I only cleaned, changed the travel and used some new oil and grease... I have not had the damper side open


All parts seperate do not give the toink / slurp:


- the lowers without damper and air piston rod conneced , up and down is super slick
- the damper rod on its own is also super slick
- and the air piston rod without top cap mounted is also super slick


The last time I reassembled the lowers it seemed to be gone for a while, but after a quick check in the street it came back.


Please help.... I myself am an all-round fault mechanic at a factory and can analyze faults very well, but unfortunately I get stuck here.
Tonight I will disassemble the damper completely to see if something is loose, but I don't really expect to find anything there.


I hope you can shine some light in the darkness! Ajuto!


----------



## Patrick_spider (Oct 8, 2020)

What is the case; (I'm so good at explaining: oops 

I have converted my perfectly working Velvet RL2 gosteren from 130mm to 120mm. Normally not a problem at all. I already have experience with the Xfusion Sweep RL2 where it was always so easy.
Now I have a kind of threshold / toink halfway through the suspension during the (fast) compression. Mainly by ear but also a little by feeling. It does remain smooth in its travel. At first it sounded like scraping but on closer inspection it seemed to be more on the damper side and oil related. (Sounds like a short slurp of air in oil or oil that seems to hit a schimstack, checkvalve or orphise. But that seems strange to me, because there seems to be enough oil in the damper side, lockout also works.

All oil levels are correct regarding the open bath (15cc per side) and the air chamber (yes, 10cc needs to be in ...)
Now I only changed travel, cleaned and some new oil and grease. I have not had the damper side open

All parts loose do not give the toink / slurp
- the lowers without damper and air piston rod connected.. up and down is super slick
- the damper rod on its own is also super slick
- and the air piston rod without top cap mounted is also super slick

The last time I reassembled the lowers it seemed to be gone for a while, but after a quick test in the street it came back.

Who can help me in the richt direction.... I myself am an all-round mechanic at a factory and can analyze faults very well, but unfortunately I get stuck here.
Tonight I will disassemble the damper completely to see if something is loose, but I don't really expect to find anything there.

I hope you can shine some light in the darkness! Ajuto!


----------



## Patrick_spider (Oct 8, 2020)

​


[COLOR=#222222 !important]

​
[/COLOR]
​
Now I have tried almost everything.
Damper side completely open, cleaned and refilled with fresh oil.

But the clink remains

There are only 3 scenarios left for me.

1) Keep driving and after a while see if it gets better and then open to see if nothing is worn or broken.

2) rebuild to 130mm to see if it goes away

3) send it to bikeuspension with the chance that they cannot find it either

I have to say that I sleep badly because of these troubles


Now I have tried almost everything. Opened the damper side completely, all 3 parts ....cleaned and refilled with fresh oil. Saw nothing strange...

But the kloink remainsThere are only 3 scenarios left for me.

1) Keep driving and after a while see if it gets better and then open to see if nothing is worn or broken.

2) rebuild to 130mm to see if it goes away

3) send it to bikeuspension for 2 yearly service with the chance that they cannot find it either.


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## gambit99 (Jun 10, 2020)

*X-Fusion Slide Two Nine seals*

I'm attempting to service the lowers for my X-Fusion Slide Two Nine on my 2016 Niner Jet9. I followed the video at 



 but hit a snag. I tore the seal trying to remove it. It appears to me the seals are actually glued to the lowers and don't just "pop out" like the video. I've managed to get most of the pieces out of one side but I'm having trouble finding a replacement. I purchased the 32mm EXNAVI (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Z8NVYPT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) but it clearly doesn't fit. The top diameter lower in which the seal needs to fit in appears to be 35mm whereas the purchased seal is more like 42mm.

Any suggestions on the correct replacement part and out of curiousity, has anyone else had the seals glued in their lowers? I've attached a pic of the side I remove (painfull) the seal as well as the original seal on the other side.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Having had a soft spot for XFusion stuff (had a few Velvets, put Enixs on both kids old bikes and have a HLR Air as a back up rear shock for my banshee) I decided to upgrade the crappy Suntour fork on my sons new bike with a Trace 34 RC. As I do with all my new forks I opened her up to make sure she had bath oil and I wanted to adjust travel Down 10mm. The foot nuts aren't the same as the RL2 forks and there were what appeared to be a bottom out bumper and a spacer on the outside of the air spring (if memory serves me correctly these are under the negative spring inside the air chamber in the RL2 forks














) otherwise the process is the same to remove the lowers and get to the air rod. To my surprise the fork was pretty dry (some residual oil) and the holes for the travel were not there. Just a 20mm white spacer. It's a 120mm fork so I'm assuming it goes to 140 if the spacer is removed. I'm wondering if removing the spacer on the outside would take it to 100mm? As opposed to the one inside. If not, I'm looking for another 10 or 20mm spacer to clip onto the air rod. Anyone have any ideas?


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## Mainturion (Dec 21, 2010)

I have for sale a barely used (max. 700 miles) Roughcut HLR damper in great condition at $65.
Shipping costs (from the Netherlands) for buyer. Picture is not mine but this is what my damper looks like too.










.


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## Mainturion (Dec 21, 2010)

galio said:


> Hello from Bulgaria,
> I have a problem with my fork (x-fusion rl2) - the negative spring is broken.
> Where can I buy a new negative spring (air shaft) ?
> 
> ...


I got a XFusion Sweep RL2 with very healthy internals that you can get for a very friendly price (€70). I'm also in Europe (Netherlands) so shipping costst should be reasonable. Just send me a private message if interested.


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## Eneazuliani (Jul 13, 2021)

Mainturion said:


> I have for sale a barely used (max. 700 miles) Roughcut HLR damper in great condition at $65.
> Shipping costs (from the Netherlands) for buyer. Picture is not mine but this is what my damper looks like too.
> 
> View attachment 1907623
> ...


Hi there, is the damper still available?
WBR,
Enea


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## askjasonbowen (Apr 27, 2014)

Hello, does anyone know where I can get the tokens for the McQueen HLR 27.5+ fork or a MRP Ramp Cartridge?


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## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

askjasonbowen said:


> Hello, does anyone know where I can get the tokens for the McQueen HLR 27.5+ fork or a MRP Ramp Cartridge?


I dont believe the McQueen uses tokens. When i had mine, i do recall reading in the service manual about adding additional oil to the air spring to increase progressivity. However, the amount of oil you could add (like only 5-10ml extra) was minimal so the amount of adjustment was also minimal. Still, if you have some extra oil, its a free way to experiment.


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## askjasonbowen (Apr 27, 2014)

JonF1 said:


> I dont believe the McQueen uses tokens. When i had mine, i do recall reading in the service manual about adding additional oil to the air spring to increase progressivity. However, the amount of oil you could add (like only 5-10ml extra) was minimal so the amount of adjustment was also minimal. Still, if you have some extra oil, its a free way to experiment.


I'm actually trying to confirm the oil and where to source as seems hard find.
I see it's supposed to use 7.5wt but can't find the X-Fusion Slick Oil in stock online.
See some saying you can use 10wt oil and use less than the 10ml but not confirming how many mls to use.


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## JonF1 (Oct 2, 2019)

I had used Finishline 7.5wt from worldwidecyclery.com. Worked perfect.


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## col83 (Jun 24, 2011)

Hi, Is anyone able to tell me the size of the o-rings at the base of the damper and air shafts?


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## Chungales (6 mo ago)

bruto said:


> if anyone's still interested, the thread size for RL2 damper tool is m8.5x0.75mm
> taps start at $16 on ebay
> you can make yourself a bunch now if you can't buy the tool itself on amazon or elsewhere with free shipping


Hi, First Post I know but I found the above from 2 years ago and I happen to have a Trace 34 RL2 with mangled Foot nut and shaft threads on the damper leg, this is the only reference I've found for the thread size. Did x-fusion really use M8.5 x 0.75? I can't readily get spares (in the UK) So I'm looking at alternatives like wire inserts or putting an M8x0.75 die along the bottom of the shaft to take a more easily found alternative nut... anyone ever rescued this sort of issue before?


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