# Bike sizing the current generation



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

I've been riding MTB for 23 years. And I've ridden a few different bikes over the past month (combination of rental and test riding), and I'm finding I fit anywhere between an XS and a medium. 

I'm 5'4" with a 29.5in biking inseam.

I was hoping the reach and stack measurements would make things easier, but they've only added to the confusion.

And most XS/S or S/M put me right on the border for most fits, but I tend to err on the smaller size frames (I want to drive the bike, not the bike drive me).

I'm trying to make heads or tails of this, but it's really frustrating. Also, it doesn't help that if I fit a S/M I can't find a small to demo or test ride, and same with the XS/S. No one demos the smaller sizes, but yet they want to target women riders.

Oh, and it's not even consistent between manufacturers.

Anyone else run into this?


----------



## Pivot Cycles (Mar 22, 2016)

Hi Stripes,

You are right, it can be hard to get all the info you need from a geometry chart. We can't speak for other brands, but we do our best to make sure you feel confident about choosing the right bike size:

• In addition to geometry charts, in our FAQ for each bike we offer size reccomendations by height. These recommendations are based on all of the info and feedback we get from Pivot owners and riders at demo events regarding what size fits them best, as well as our own engineering and design parameters. We really want you to be happy with your bike, so we are really careful about recommendations. 

• For riders on the edge between two sizes, you are smart to look for demo events. We do offer our XS and S size bikes on our demo fleets, for exactly the reason you state - it's really hard to know which one you prefer if you can't ride both. 

• For riders who can't get to a demo event, or who just want a fast answer, we are always really happy to talk you through the fit options, either on our chat system on our website (it just so happens that most of the people answering this chat are women riders, so even better!), or you can just call us directly and tell us what you are looking for - we can talk about fit preferences, ride style, and any other factors you think might influence your getting the best solution. There's no phone tree, you get a real person and real answers right away. 1-877-85-PIVOT (74868)

Good luck in your search, let us know if we can help!
Carla


----------



## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

Aloha Stripes, 

You ask a great question that's pertinent to all. I've been riding a bike in what seems like forever and mountain biking since the mid 80's. Back then it used to be stand over and top tube lengths. But yes, in today's world with slack angles and sloping top tubes, those numbers don't quite cut it. What I've found to work for me is to take measurements from my existing bike that I love and have felt so comfortable on and transfer that to manufacturer's specs. Mostly I try to figure out what reach I have (stem included) and then figure out which size of the new bike will fit that bill with what length stem. I tend to go for a smaller frame if I'm between two because I prefer a smaller, lighter frame with lower C/G for better technical handling. My preferences anyway. 

Good luck with that. Carla from Pivot seems to have some great points there too.


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Thanks gmats and Carla. This came out of demoing a couple of different bikes as well as throwing my leg over a few for sizing.

I've purchased a Megatrail SS, because I wanted something that was aggressive with short travel and less XC, but it had to be something I could climb (shorter travel). I spend so much time doing park riding these days vs trail riding I wanted to find something that would do great at the park that I could sometimes ride on the trail.

And after 23 years of trail riding, my climbing still sucks 

So in the process, I demo'd a Spesh Camber, which was a small. The small was pretty stretched out from what I was used to riding, and I could see a medium being really uncomfortable. At the same time, I got on the Spesh Stumpy small, and that felt flat out upright. That I would have to get on a medium. And while I wasn't looking to ride an XC bike (this was my first time on one in 10 years), I did learn more about my riding hopping on one as well as what I would want for my current riding.

I currently ride an HD3. That is a small, but I could ride a medium. Like gmats, I tend to go for the smaller, more playful bikes for not only my riding style. What's weird I was checking out the Mojo 3, and the medium on that fit me solid. But if I could barely get my leg over the Ripley LS, which only goes as small as a medium. And that's one vendor!

For the bikes with long top tubes, like Yeti and Guerrilla Gravity, I have to go XS. While I might be able to fit a small, I won't be happy on it because it'll be too stretched out. And GG has steep seat tube angles (which I like) and I thougth would affect fit, but I'm still a solid XS in their bikes.

And while that was in San Jose and the Denver metro, those are pretty heavily populated areas and it's easier to find things to demo (and even then, it's not as easy for me to find the right sizes to demo).

Carla: thank you for your offer. It's appreciated! All I ask is please make sure your demo fleet is good for everyone to test ride  I'd like to see other vendors follow through with this.

Gmats: Thanks for the tip! I can give that a shot next time I travel. The other reason I have to look on the smaller size is I ride 165mm cranks on all my bikes. If they have 170mm, I can ride them with the bigger pedals (pedaling innovation pedals) and take those with me. Most bikes don't come stocked in 165mm cranks, even the small or XS. If I can afford to, I'll take my bike with me. It's just not always possible.


----------



## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

stripes said:


> Thanks gmats and Carla. This came out of demoing a couple of different bikes as well as throwing my leg over a few for sizing.


You're super welcome. Just tossing out what I've learned over the years. I'm 5'5" and have had the "luxury" to ride all kinds of stuff over the years. I take a mountain bike trip once a year for the last 30+ years and have had the chance to ride all kinds of rides.



stripes said:


> And after 23 years of trail riding, my climbing still sucks


LOL............Seems like just opportunities.



stripes said:


> I currently ride an HD3. That is a small, but I could ride a medium. Like gmats, I tend to go for the smaller, more playful bikes for not only my riding style. What's weird I was checking out the Mojo 3, and the medium on that fit me solid. But if I could barely get my leg over the Ripley LS, which only goes as small as a medium. And that's one vendor!


Haven't had a chance to ride the HD3 but did ride Ripley and Ripley LS (in medium). The Ripley felt big and slow to turn but extremely stable. I ride a Turner Flux set up for trail riding so the Ripley is going to feel sluggish leaning in to turns and such. The 29er wheels did feel like they maintained momentum in the rough stuff for sure.



stripes said:


> And while that was in San Jose and the Denver metro, those are pretty heavily populated areas and it's easier to find things to demo (and even then, it's not as easy for me to find the right sizes to demo).


I have that struggle living way out here in Hawaii. I have to make a "pilgrimage" to the continent to get to demo bike(s).



stripes said:


> Gmats: Thanks for the tip! I can give that a shot next time I travel. The other reason I have to look on the smaller size is I ride 165mm cranks on all my bikes. If they have 170mm, I can ride them with the bigger pedals (pedaling innovation pedals) and take those with me. Most bikes don't come stocked in 165mm cranks, even the small or XS. If I can afford to, I'll take my bike with me. It's just not always possible.


Great idea. Yes. That would certainly be a challenge - getting shorter cranks. Good luck out there.


----------



## coldrolling (Sep 8, 2015)

I'm actually really tall (5'10") so I don't personally run into this issue when demoing bikes...but, I hear this almost every day from smaller female (and male!) customers who come in our shop. It seems like a lot of shops, as well as manufacturers aren't willing to risk having equal amounts of smaller sizes (and sometimes XL/XXL)..and so they just miss out on a huge population of riders who could, and would probably buy their bikes. Some brands that I think are doing a great job at making killer bikes to fit everyone are Pivot and Yeti, currently. 

Our shop has a huge demo fleet of 6 different brands, with full size runs...we feel it is worth it to have xs-xl in every bike that makes sense for those sizes. Customers come from all over the state to demo bikes, because they know we will have 3+ options for them to choose from, on bikes that actually fit. The best part of this is that we probably end up selling more bikes to that population of smaller riders, because they are so stoked to get a chance to ride 3 (or more!) xs/sm size bikes, back to back...an experience that is pretty hard to find elsewhere. 
I hope more shops take the "risk" of having bikes to fit any customer that walks through the door...with the industry becoming so online focused, I think having bikes to demo for *everyone* will be a huge part of keeping shops alive and thriving.


----------



## Lucy Juice (Dec 29, 2010)

Stripes, I've run into the demo problem in particular for years and years and years and... Damn, I'm getting really sick of this conversation! :lol:



coldrolling said:


> I'm actually really tall (5'10") so I don't personally run into this issue when demoing bikes...but, I hear this almost every day from smaller female (and male!) customers who come in our shop. It seems like a lot of shops, as well as manufacturers aren't willing to risk having equal amounts of smaller sizes (and sometimes XL/XXL)..and so they just miss out on a huge population of riders who could, and would probably buy their bikes. Some brands that I think are doing a great job at making killer bikes to fit everyone are Pivot and Yeti, currently.
> 
> Our shop has a huge demo fleet of 6 different brands, with full size runs...we feel it is worth it to *have xs-xl in every bike that makes sense for those sizes*. Customers come from all over the state to demo bikes, because they know we will have 3+ options for them to choose from, on bikes that actually fit. The best part of this is that we probably end up selling more bikes to that population of smaller riders, because they are so stoked to get a chance to ride 3 (or more!) xs/sm size bikes, back to back...an experience that is pretty hard to find elsewhere.
> I hope more shops take the "risk" of having bikes to fit any customer that walks through the door...with the industry becoming so online focused, I think having bikes to demo for *everyone* will be a huge part of keeping shops alive and thriving.


The bolded is what really gets me. How do you decide which bikes make sense for smaller sizes? I've rolled up to demos wanting to try anything from a high-end XC race bike to a 6" travel enduro bike and been told, "Sorry, we don't carry small demos in those because women/smaller riders generally want [X]."

You know what I think is the truth? I think no one in the bike industry actually knows what women want because *no one has bothered to ask us.* I give feedback and ask for change to reps and shops till I'm blue in the face, but nothing ever changes.

*sigh* rant over...


----------



## coldrolling (Sep 8, 2015)

Lucy Juice said:


> Stripes, I've run into the demo problem in particular for years and years and years and... Damn, I getting really sick of this conversation! :lol:
> 
> The bolded is what really gets me. How do you decide which bikes make sense for smaller sizes? I've rolled up to demos wanting to try anything from a high-end XC race bike to a 6" travel enduro bike and been told, "Sorry, we don't carry small demos in those because women/smaller riders generally want [X]."
> 
> ...


I guess what I meant by that, is more what makes sense to have a full size run of...because of the type of terrain we have around here. We don't have a full size run of 29er Enduros, because literally no one comes in and rents that bike. There's no trail around to really get that bike up to speed, to really feel how it works. We rented one Large, once last year. Same with a bike like the Mach 6. But we rent a Mach 429 trail at least 20 times a week! And, it's great for the terrain we have...So we do double size runs of that bike. 
I do think you're correct, that no one is asking what women want. As a woman, I try to ask literally every woman that walks in our store what we could be doing better...and what bikes they want to see and ride. I buy all of our inventory, so that's super helpful for me to gauge interest, and also pass the message along to reps/companies that I work with. But, I will say it is extremely difficult to make big changes quickly in a shop/industry that is literally all men, as in my situation. So, just know there are women in shops who are doing the best they can with they influence they have :/


----------



## Guest (Mar 30, 2017)

Lucy Juice said:


> Stripes, I've run into the demo problem in particular for years and years and years and... Damn, I getting really sick of this conversation! :lol:
> 
> The bolded is what really gets me. How do you decide which bikes make sense for smaller sizes? I've rolled up to demos wanting to try anything from a high-end XC race bike to a 6" travel enduro bike and been told, "Sorry, we don't carry small demos in those because women/smaller riders generally want [X]."
> 
> ...


sad state of affairs lucy.


----------



## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

I'm a numbers geek and run Excel sheets all day at work. Having that knowledge I took my old bike and measured everything possible and put it into a spreadsheet making notes about what I liked and disliked. I'm small like the originator of this post.



stripes said:


> I've been riding MTB for 23 years. And I've ridden a few different bikes over the past month (combination of rental and test riding), and I'm finding I fit anywhere between an XS and a medium.
> 
> I'm 5'4" with a 29.5in biking inseam.


I then studied geometries of numerous bikes, several of which ended up in the spreadsheet for comparison sake. The issue I see with bike sizing has nothing to do with top tube length, but the fact that "reach doesn't take into consideration stem length and stack, bar sizing, fork angle and even seat angle. All of those things combined changed the effective feel or effective reach required when standing or sitting down. So my spreadsheet ran the calcs on the seated position, adding the extra sitback the seat angle added to the reach as well as adding in the length of the stem. It did not give a true and accurate distance to the bars though as it was impossible to run the trig to calculate the exact bar position as the stack height of the stem and distance from the top of the top tube to the bottom of the stem are distances no manufacturer lists. But so long as I ran the calcs on each bike the same I'd at least be comparing apples to apples. The sheet also did the same for stack, adding in the bar heights but foregoing the stem stack and spacer heights. Once I had maybe 6 possible bikes I honed in on 2 that per the numbers might feel much better than my bike and more to my liking. I then rented one of the two from a LBS and drove out to a demo site where I was able to compare my top two choices head to head. Yes, I spent a fair amount of time, some would say wasted time, running numbers on a spreadsheet. But I did nothing that a good bike fitter wouldn't have done for me. In the end I have a bike that I'm really comfortable on and in my mind it couldn't have gotten much better.


----------



## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

Nevermind, sorry for the intrusion.


----------



## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

Lucy Juice said:


> You know what I think is the truth? I think no one in the bike industry actually knows what women want because *no one has bothered to ask us.* I give feedback and ask for change to reps and shops till I'm blue in the face, but nothing ever changes.
> 
> *sigh* rant over...


I understand your frustration regarding women's bikes.

Considering the sharp increase in various initiatives aimed at increasing female participation in mountain biking in the last decade, I find it hard to believe that no one in the bike industry has asked women riders what they want.

Perhaps it's not that no one's asking, but that they are asking and they're learning that "women" is not this one homogeneous group of riders. I think that no one in the bike industry actually knows what women want because we all want different things.

You don't hear people saying, "Men want this, this, and this in a mountain bike." That sounds pretty silly, but then replace "men" with "women" and you hear it all the time. But it's not that simple, and I think that's how we end up with all this frustration regarding women's bikes.


----------



## Lucy Juice (Dec 29, 2010)

Ranty McRantyface is ranty, which isn't always reasoned and logical, so yeah, I know that there are companies engaging in women's market research.

On the other hand... (I know it's a logical fallacy, so I tread this water with caution, but...) I have been involved with HUGE women's clubs that encompass all skill ranges in a large metro area known as a cycling mecca, and no one has ever asked us what we want. I'm sure you both, Chuky and Deep Thought, might be surprised by my answers, but that's not to the point... Deep Thought, I actually agree with you for the most part, BUT...

Chuky, you've been in the industry a long time. We get it. You've probably also been riding bikes from the companies you work for years, regardless of if they're your favorite thing. So maybe it's hard to understand the frustration (sometimes humiliation) of showing up to a factory demo tour of a major bike brand and being told, "Sorry, this bike that our pro women racers ride, who are actually your size and helped us develop this bike, and that we've promoted the **** out of using said (short female) pro rider, isn't available at this MAJOR FACTORY DEMO STOP IN A MAJOR CITY. It's just numbers, though. Math, bro. No offense." So the dudes can go take 45-min laps on any bike in the lineup, basically, and you get to test bikes that are too big, or wait all day for the one bike in your size that's at the demo.

Now I'm beyond this point in my riding and I've bought my last three rigs sight unseen, because I'm advanced enough to know what I want and like and what will work for me. But I acutely remember being a beginner and this situation sucked. Shops would tell me, "We don't have your size, look for the factory demo day," and the factory demo day reps would tell me, "We don't have your size, did you try the fleet at [X] shop?" which of course, had already told me to try the demo.

I'm maybe just a bit tired of standing in a city with dozens of bike shops screaming "SOMEONE PLEASE TAKE MY MONEY."

Besides all that--I've helped lots of beginner women start riding. And Chuky, if you think I need to get off your lawn, then you're part of the problem.

Sorry for the TJ, back to bike to bike fitting. (brands/shops reading, please effing stock small demos...)


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Deep Thought said:


> I understand your frustration regarding women's bikes.
> 
> Considering the sharp increase in various initiatives aimed at increasing female participation in mountain biking in the last decade, I find it hard to believe that no one in the bike industry has asked women riders what they want.
> 
> ...


I disagree that this is about WOMEN'S bikes but about what women want.

I'm tired of seeing a lower spec'd and suspension sprung for a lighter rider because that's what some marketing company deemed that what I want. Hate to tell you this, but we all don't want xc bikes. I'm fine with a guys bike. If I can test ride one they fit. It's just a matter of finding the right size.

At least they're getting away from pink.


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Deep Thought said:


> I understand your frustration regarding women's bikes.
> 
> Considering the sharp increase in various initiatives aimed at increasing female participation in mountain biking in the last decade, I find it hard to believe that no one in the bike industry has asked women riders what they want.
> 
> ...


This is why my post was about nothing but unisex bikes. I hate the fragmented industry.

I don't ride women's bikes. I had one, and I won't do that again. Several problems:
- had to replace the front and rear suspension. Max weight of the rider 120lbs. Surprised I didn't break the frame. 
- resale is hard enough. Reselling a women's bike is nearly impossible. 
- they still come with cranks too damn long. Let's see, lower spring suspension, lighter frames, lesser quality components (yes this still happens) and on an XS we have 170mm cranks. How many 5'1" riders would be truly comfortable on 170mm cranks?

Maybe instead of the industry targeting men/women, they should target the rider and the fit. The whole thing about getting rid of 26" wheels can limit smaller available sizes. Instead of targeting women, there are smaller AND larger riders (both height and weight, see the Clyde forum and read how many riders need an xxl frame because they're really tall), they should offer better fitting bikes.

Instead of chasing new "standards"'that don't really do ****, how about working with the folks who need a good fitting bike and just serve them well.

And make those bikes available for test riding. I will not bike another trail bike without some dirt time on it. I don't think that's fair to myself or my finances as bikes are costing more and more these days. And I spent a lot of time on them.


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

chuky said:


> There are a ton of really thoughtful, dedicated, whip-smart people working in the bike industry who have worked their butts off for 3 decades or more to foster, grow and support both the women's market and the women's riding community. As one grows, the other does, too. It may be that the change you want isn't economically viable yet, but that doesn't mean people aren't listening. If you really want a response, try writing to the actual company owners - I bet you get a reply from most of them - these are people who really care what their customers think.
> 
> As far as the determining which bikes make sense for a demo fleet in which sizes - every fleet in every shop and from every company is assembled with budget and logistics restrictions. Example: if you have a trailer that holds 20 complete bikes, and the company you represent makes 10 models in 5 sizes each, you can't put every bike in every size on the trailer. So, you look at your numbers and at what models get ridden most, what models get ridden least, what sizes see the most traffic, etc. It's just math, not a vendetta against any particular demographic.
> 
> ...


Congrats on making this about you. This isn't about you. We are the consumers. So we have every right to ***** and moan what the industry doesn't get right.

If you don't want to listen to people's complaints about what's not right, then either your focus groups aren't doing their job or you're not listening to us--the consumer.

And this whole thing is about finding bikes to demo so we can see what fits. Thanks for the hijack.


----------



## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

Sorry, it's not meant to be about me, its supposed to be a 3 decade reassurance that while bikes haven't always been fair, they are really getting better, and it is precisely because we do hear you, we are you. I can't tell you the number of demo events I have attended as a customer (i do this still, its important to keep it real) and been told "29ers aren't for girls", "you can ride a large just fine", "sorry we don't make it in a small". It sucks. 

Every woman I know in the industry has experienced what you have - frustration at not finding the right bike, not having shorts that fit, not being able to get decent riding shoes in her size. For most of us, its WHY we are in the industry, every single one of us started out as riders/consumers. We work very hard to push for equitable support inside our companies. It's slow work in sport where podium girls are still ok, but it is changing. 

Anyway, you are probably right, sorry for the misunderstanding, it wasn't supposed to read that way. I think I'm going to take a forum break.


----------



## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

Sorry, "get off my lawn" is an expression that means i am old. it was meant to be self-deprecating.


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

chuky said:


> Sorry, it's not meant to be about me, its supposed to be a 3 decade reassurance that while bikes haven't always been fair, they are really getting better, and it is precisely because we do hear you, we are you. I can't tell you the number of demo events I have attended as a customer (i do this still, its important to keep it real) and been told "29ers aren't for girls", "you can ride a large just fine", "sorry we don't make it in a small". It sucks.
> 
> Every woman I know in the industry has experienced what you have - frustration at not finding the right bike, not having shorts that fit, not being able to get decent riding shoes in her size. For most of us, its WHY we are in the industry, every single one of us started out as riders/consumers. We work very hard to push for equitable support inside our companies. It's slow work in sport where podium girls are still ok, but it is changing.
> 
> Anyway, you are probably right, sorry for the misunderstanding, it wasn't supposed to read that way. I think I'm going to take a forum break.


No need to take a forum break--just want to keep it on topic. 

You wanna sell more bikes, right? We want to ride more bikes. We can't ride them if someone doesn't provide them to demo. This is what my post was about--we need to be able to test--not just a parking lot test and not sight unseen.

To give you an idea of my last three bikes (DJ and DH notwithstanding):

- small Ibis mojo HD. I was able to demo this bike on several different trails because shredchic let me borrow her bike. I loved that bike and it felt just right. Had it three years, sold to a friend recently. 
- small mojo hd3. Good bike, but I only did a parking lot ride with it. While I've had this bike two years, it's never felt really right. My bad on not demoing it on the trail, and with running wide non boost rims, it's been a lot of changes I never could get the bike to feel right. My bad--i should have demoed this on the trail. 
- extra small guerrilla gravity megatrail. I was able to test ride this on the trail, again by borrowing a friend's. I really like the feel of it and was able to get it off the ground and it feels like a more natural fit for my riding style than the hd3 does. While I'm lucky that a friend of mine had one I could demo, guerrilla gravity still does not have an XS demo in their fleet. There are missing a market.

I've also demoed a Spesh Camber and a Ripley, both in smalls. Demoing is awesome. Bikes can charge a fee, people get to test ride and maybe eventually buy something they'll love.

I love that Pivot is willing to make their frames to fit people, but you still have to be able to demo the bikes. While the smaller rider may have been an outlier in the past, they are many more of them and they want the same things that other riders do.


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

chuky said:


> Sorry, "get off my lawn" is an expression that means i am old. it was meant to be self-deprecating.


I'm familiar with the term (I use it a lot myself), but the message didn't come across self-deprecating.

Seriously thank you for taking the time to apologize. We are both long time forum members, and even though we don't always agree, it's good to see we can still converse in this shitty medium.


----------



## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

stripes said:


> This is why my post was about nothing but unisex bikes. I hate the fragmented industry.
> 
> I don't ride women's bikes. I had one, and I won't do that again. Several problems:
> - had to replace the front and rear suspension. Max weight of the rider 120lbs. Surprised I didn't break the frame.
> ...


I'm with you. I wasn't trying to derail your thread. I was responding to Lucy's comment.


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Lucy Juice said:


> Chuky, you've been in the industry a long time. We get it. You've probably also been riding bikes from the companies you work for years, regardless of if they're your favorite thing. So maybe it's hard to understand the frustration (sometimes humiliation) of showing up to a factory demo tour of a major bike brand and being told, "Sorry, this bike that our pro women racers ride, who are actually your size and helped us develop this bike, and that we've promoted the **** out of using said (short female) pro rider, isn't available at this MAJOR FACTORY DEMO STOP IN A MAJOR CITY. It's just numbers, though. Math, bro. No offense." So the dudes can go take 45-min laps on any bike in the lineup, basically, and you get to test bikes that are too big, or wait all day for the one bike in your size that's at the demo.
> 
> Now I'm beyond this point in my riding and I've bought my last three rigs sight unseen, because I'm advanced enough to know what I want and like and what will work for me. But I acutely remember being a beginner and this situation sucked. Shops would tell me, "We don't have your size, look for the factory demo day," and the factory demo day reps would tell me, "We don't have your size, did you try the fleet at [X] shop?" which of course, had already told me to try the demo.
> 
> I'm maybe just a bit tired of standing in a city with dozens of bike shops screaming "SOMEONE PLEASE TAKE MY MONEY."


So much this. You'd figure with so many people sitting around waiting for various sizes to test ride, they would carry more.

But noooo.. there's only 1 small or XS and you have to wait in line to demo it or wait around all day for your turn.


----------



## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

stripes said:


> So much this. You'd figure with so many people sitting around waiting for various sizes to test ride, they would carry more.
> 
> But noooo.. there's only 1 small or XS and you have to wait in line to demo it or wait around all day for your turn.


Yep, experienced this myself. I live in a pretty small city and basically wait all year for the chance to demo bikes (and those are the bikes the local shops carry - forget about anything more "exotic"). Unless I'm able to attend a large bike festival (DirtFest being the last I attended), I am limited to Giant, Trek and rarely Specialized. Last year, I was very disappointed that Liv wasn't able to make it to our local demo day. Trek did come, but again, they only had 1 or 2 small bikes to demo and the one bike I really wanted to demo (The Session), I wasn't able to because either they didn't have a small, or the small was literally gone all day. Personally, I don't care if a bike is "female-specific" or not - I just want to be able to ride something that fits! I'm not sure, but it would seem that a large portion of the female population in the US is 5'5" or under. I can understand (to a point) maybe a shop not having an xs or a small in stock, but if you want to sell bikes, at least make sure you have those sizes available to demo...PLEASE??!!


----------



## fishercat (Mar 1, 2004)

oh man am i happy to see this thread. i am in an ocd spiral over bike size and simply cannot make a decision !! i dont have a bike right now and need to get one. found a leftover 2016 santa cruz 5010 in size small that felt great around the block, slighty small but much better than the 2015 model where i was a solid medium at 5'6". looked at the geo chart and couldnt believe SC now puts me solidly on a medium frame. so i tried it, felt a bit long with stock stem and not nearly as playful as the small. i am more used to smaller frames but wondering if i am missing something as everyone is sizing up this year even with the longer top tubes. its hard to make a decision for me as dropping close to $5k on a bike i want it to be perfect. all the pics of bikes have tons of seatpost which doesnt help matters, if thats how a bike is designed to look i think most people would need to size down. i can barely get fulll extension of the 150mm dropper on a medium frame, and would have to run the seat forward and a tiny stem. i did notice all the Julianna gals my height and some even shorter are riding mediums. please help so i can make a decision soon ! thanks


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

fishercat said:


> oh man am i happy to see this thread. i am in an ocd spiral over bike size and simply cannot make a decision !! i dont have a bike right now and need to get one. found a leftover 2016 santa cruz 5010 in size small that felt great around the block, slighty small but much better than the 2015 model where i was a solid medium at 5'6". looked at the geo chart and couldnt believe SC now puts me solidly on a medium frame. so i tried it, felt a bit long with stock stem and not nearly as playful as the small. i am more used to smaller frames but wondering if i am missing something as everyone is sizing up this year even with the longer top tubes. its hard to make a decision for me as dropping close to $5k on a bike i want it to be perfect. all the pics of bikes have tons of seatpost which doesnt help matters, if thats how a bike is designed to look i think most people would need to size down. i can barely get fulll extension of the 150mm dropper on a medium frame, and would have to run the seat forward and a tiny stem. i did notice all the Julianna gals my height and some even shorter are riding mediums. please help so i can make a decision soon ! thanks


No, you're not missing a damn thing. 

Ride what's comfortable and makes you happy. What's driving the longer TT bikes is men who are taller than we are.

I'm finding where I was usually on a small/medium for sizing and heading towards a small, in more cases now I'm fitting an XS/small, and getting an XS. Fine, so I'm 5'4", but it works for me, and that's what's important.

I took the measurement from the top of my steerer tube (center of it) to the center of my seatpost at the highest, and use that for a fit. For me, it's 21.8inches. Stem and handlebars can be tweaked, but if the bike is close to that, I'm much happier and more comfortable.


----------



## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

A shorter stem will liven things up. My concern would be the ability to fit a dropper in a medium seat tube.


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Travis Bickle said:


> A shorter stem will liven things up. My concern would be the ability to fit a dropper in a medium seat tube.


Most bikes today are designed with men's proportions (longer torso), even some of the pinking and shrinking aren't much different. And in all honesty, I'm not comfortable riding a bike with anything shorter than a 40mm stem. Some people have to ride with shorter to fit a bike. That sucks.

Even with longer proportioned legs, I agree with you: we need shorter seat tubes for the seatposts.


----------



## laine (Oct 4, 2012)

I've been going through this now. I'm 5'1" with a 28.5-ish inseam - so definitely looking at smaller bikes. I'm lucky that I live in the Bay Area, where shops do offer a lot of demos. I went to a Trailhead Cyclery demo day and they had trucks from Yeti, Ibis, Transition, and Specialized. I emailed them before the event to confirm that they would have XS and S sizes - and they did. Not a lot of them - but enough to try on the trails. Pivot comes around here too with their truck, so I've demo'd them as well (and currently own one that I think I'm going to replace with an Ibis Mojo 3). And I'm about 60-90 mins (depending on traffic) from the Santa Cruz and Ibis headquarters, where you can demo from their in-house fleet.

But I'm like a few of the other folks here. I won't drop several thousand on a bike I didn't ride on a trail. A parking lot ride is good enough to tell me if I want to test the bike on the dirt - that's about it. It can help me rule something out, but not help me make a decision. And I don't want a women's bike or a bike that has a set build. I want to change out components to my liking.

I also put all the measurements of the bikes I tested into a spreadsheet, but it didn't turn out the way I expected it to. The Yeti SB5 XS was closer to my current build (a converted Mach 5.7 - now a 5.2 with 27.5 wheels), but I liked the Mojo 3 more on the trail. So for me, spreadsheets (and I do love my spreadsheets, really) are not the answer. I need to ride the bike.

I went in to an awesome LBS (Wrench Science) that carries a ton of brands - none in stock - they do custom builds - and talked to them about building a Mojo 3. The guy there suggested looking at the Evil Calling - but again - there's nowhere to demo it, so it's off the list.

Nothing can replace testing a bike on a trail. As I said, I'm fortunate to live where I do to have some options. But I do understand the frustration of not finding the XS or S bike to try. There was one S Scout at the Trailhead demo - it was out when I got to the booth and there was another woman ahead of me. She waited there, since that was the bike she wanted to try. I took out the S Mojo 3, came back and got on line for the XS SB5. She was still waiting. She got the bike after waiting about 1.5 hours. I chatted with her in the parking lot and she was kind enough to let me do a quick test on the geometry - too big for me. I'm just glad I didn't wait 2+ hours to have to find that out. And I'm one of the lucky ones....



stripes said:


> And after 23 years of trail riding, my climbing still sucks


Oh, and Stripes - I definitely have not been riding as long as you, but my climbing is also sucky. I only go up so that I can go down.


----------



## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I had a Mondraker Vantage frame that came with a 30mm stem, and felt very normal. It was designed around 10-30mm stems, and you need a long reach and top tube to make it work. 

I have never demoed a bike I bought on the trail. I look for the fit, geometry, and suspension design I want from a reputable manufacturer, and sometimes check the fit if possible. I generally know excactly what I'm looking for. It takes a few weeks of riding before I get a new bike dialled in to where I want it, and little things in suspension setup, tires, and fit can ruin a test ride, never mind if I'm having a off day. I only had one frame in the past 30 years that I didn't gel with, and that was because I went with too small a frame, on a shop's recommendation. I now have a new LBS a few blocks from my house that really pushes demos so I can take the time to do it properly, so my next purchase may be different. The shop where I bought my current bike now has a few demos available, but when I bought, I could only check the fit. Very happy with that bike.


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Travis Bickle said:


> I had a Mondraker Vantage frame that came with a 30mm stem, and felt very normal. It was designed around 10-30mm stems, and you need a long reach and top tube to make it work.
> 
> I have never demoed a bike I bought on the trail. I look for the fit, geometry, and suspension design I want from a reputable manufacturer, and sometimes check the fit if possible. I generally know excactly what I'm looking for. It takes a few weeks of riding before I get a new bike dialled in to where I want it, and little things in suspension setup, tires, and fit can ruin a test ride, never mind if I'm having a off day. I only had one frame in the past 30 years that I didn't gel with, and that was because I went with too small a frame, on a shop's recommendation. I now have a new LBS a few blocks from my house that really pushes demos so I can take the time to do it properly, so my next purchase may be different. The shop where I bought my current bike now has a few demos available, but when I bought, I could only check the fit. Very happy with that bike.


Just for grins how tall are you? I'm 5'4" with long legs and short torso (for my height), and I've always found that the majority of bikes are too long.

I'm not the only other female on this forum who runs into this problem either. So I'm glad you found what works for you, but in all honesty, bikes are getting longer and taller and harder for us short folks to find something that fits. The riders who are south of 5'4" or 5'3" probably have it a bit rougher than I od.

So you can imagine that when I was looking for a new bike, I was really planning on staying with Ibis. But the bike I really wanted to test ride (even though it's 29er) is the Ripley LS. They haven't made in a small, and I couldn't even throw my leg over the medium, so I gave up and started looking elsewhere. That's just an example: there are other bikes I can't test ride because the same reason even if I wanted to.

I test ride EVERYTHING on the dirt now, or I don't buy it. Running the numbers doesn't always work, and with as much as bikes cost these days, I'm rather hesitant to throw the money in something I'm not sure how it fits or feels in the dirt.


----------



## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I'm 5'9.5" with what the Ibis guy called "stumpy legs". It's easier to find frames to fit when you are taller, but not too tall. My wife is 5'4" so I understand this a little bit.


----------



## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

I've been keeping a running spreadsheet of the bikes I've been demoing and to be honest it doesn't seem to be that useful. Sure you can get yourself on the right sized frame using numbers (mostly) but it seems like the bikes don't always feel the way the numbers suggest they ought to. I'm still keeping track using the spreadsheet but notes about feel seem to be more productive. It seems like demoing is really the only way to go (same with skis) as the numbers don't give you the whole picture. I wouldn't buy a car without driving it first... same with a bike. If they didn't cost so much I might be a little more willing to take a chance, but a good bike is a pretty hefty investment these days.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

The funk of New sizing struck here as well. 

I'm just a tad over 5'10" , inseam 32 and sleeve length 33 or I should say, perfectly between the med and lg on most bikes I see for rider size.

I was on a 2001 Kona 18" with an added longer stem and I always felt like the Kona was bit too short on the top tube/cockpit etc... The stem swap helped and I got used to the bike with the saddle set back to the max also.

Now many years later as I perused the newer bikes and talk of tire sizes, modern geometry - forward geometry etc... I tried the comparo's of specs and measurements only to learn the new names are 'stack' and 'reach' and even then, bikes are not always measured the same. 
I knew the test ride or demo was the way to go but still, I wanted some confirmation that made sense especially since I felt like the Kona may have been made to work more than the right bike size. This time around I didn't want to leave it to chance or get the wrong size.

The simplest idea turned out to be a bit complicated but it indeed was the test ride. The LBS had what I finally honed in on as the bike for me to strongly consider but it was in the large size and the medium was not readily available. I took the large on the condition they they would get a medium for me to test ride and compare to, keeping that option open because I knew it would always haunt me if I didn't "know" by the demo or test ride. It had to be the same bike. They had me ride a medium Tokul but I wasn't confident using another brand medium size for the ultimate decision.

They did get a medium in within a few days and I did swap the large for the medium. Most of the shop staff that thought the large looked like a good fit then said the medium looked like a good fit too. If I truly used it more for bikepacking, I might want the more stretched out position but I'm using it as my hardtail trail bike and I like the way it feels with respect to handling and response.

For the heck of it, I measured a triangle to see where the extended mid of the seat tube is to points B and C (the handle bar grips), then compared to the Kona. To me, that seemed like a meaningful number since it considers the stem set up and the seat so the bike is set up as I ride it and the cockpit is as real as it gets.
The wide bars of today are no comparison but it really didn't affect the reach much at all so the two bikes came up fairly close. 

Personally, I think anyone can do a bit of their own measuring to compare what they ride to what they consider and get a better feel for it that way until ultimately doing the demo or test rides, same bike brand and model as the two frame sizes they narrow it to.

I'm ready for the 60 day check up and I've felt really confident I got the right bike and the right size for me.


----------



## fishercat (Mar 1, 2004)

I bought the small. Pics later when I pick it up from the shop..


----------



## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

So hubby and I decided to check out the Ales and Trails event at China Camp state park in Marin County yesterday as we're both shopping for new bikes, and frankly, $40 for as many test rides as we liked, all you can drink beer, and lunch sounded like a great day out. Manufacturers on site doing demos were Trek, Specialized, Marin, Ellsworth, Orbea, Santa Cruz, Whyte and Ghost (from REI). Ellsworth didn't even bring any small sized bikes to the event! I wasn't going to rule out bikes based on anything but a ride test, but Ellsworth is way off my radar right now. If they can't be bothered to cater to those of us (female OR male) who are under 5ft6 then I won't be considering any of their bikes 😠

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Another part of this rant "one fits all" does not. I'm pissed I need to get rid of my DJ because I get neck and shoulder pain from it being too big. 

Looking for a small DJ is a serious pain in the ass. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## shredchic (Jun 18, 2007)

Sorry late to this thread...

Stripes - you'd "love" the Yeti Beti. I am taller than you, all torso with stumpy legs and I would be on a XS. . Same as its brother, the ASR. At least they pinked it.

I just wanted to defend Pivot here - and I am not a Pivot fan girl, as you know, I have owned 6 bikes in my life, 5 of which are Ibis. But Pivot has hands down the best demo fleet for getting your hands on S and XS in the industry.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

shredchic said:


> Sorry late to this thread...
> 
> Stripes - you'd "love" the Yeti Beti. I am taller than you, all torso with stumpy legs and I would be on a XS. . Same as its brother, the ASR. At least they pinked it.
> 
> I just wanted to defend Pivot here - and I am not a Pivot fan girl, as you know, I have owned 6 bikes in my life, 5 of which are Ibis. But Pivot has hands down the best demo fleet for getting your hands on S and XS in the industry.


Not surprised about Pivot. Chris C. also ran Titus back in the day, and they always had XS and XXS options at least for sale.

Yeah, I'm not even going there with Yeti. My Megatrail had to be an XS. I have no idea how my 5'1" friend gets on my bike when it just fits me fine. At least both Piviot Guerrilla Gravity are willing to work with smaller riders and find a way to get them on a frame they want to ride. So it may not be the bigger players, but some of the smaller ones are. Just need to get the other companies on board  Longer for the median bike buyer doesn't fit everyone.

Funny thing is, the women's market is growing, but yet we're pinking and not shrinking. We're also not paying attention to things like DH bikes that I'm sure either groms or smaller riders (men and women) would like to ride. Downhill bikes are a going to be a different thing I try next year, and I can't wait to see how those fits feel. At least those I can look at reach.

question for you: if you throw a leg over the HD4, lemme know. Because looking at the ETT and reach, I'm "sized out" of riding one. Which is odd, because I fit a medium on a Mojo 3.


----------



## laine (Oct 4, 2012)

stripes said:


> Funny thing is, the women's market is growing, but yet we're pinking and not shrinking. We're also not paying attention to things like DH bikes that I'm sure either groms or smaller riders (men and women) would like to ride. Downhill bikes are a going to be a different thing I try next year, and I can't wait to see how those fits feel. At least those I can look at reach.


This is very true. I bought an XS 2011 Specialized Demo II off Pinkbike a couple months ago. Last year I rented at Trek Session 88 Small and, while fun, it was way too big. Only way to find a small DH bike is to buy used now....


----------



## River19 (Jul 3, 2007)

I've noticed less pinking and shrinking in the past few years and some dedicated shredders and solid builds from Yeti, C-Dale, Liv obviously etc. In addition I think many bikes with more modern trail geometry are closer to unisex than ever. PErfect example is my 5'5" wife who is a little longer in torso than leg rides a medium Pivot 429T and I ride a large of the same bike......and she absolutely shreds on it. The short reach and low stand over of many of the newer bikes reduce the need for a whole separate line for women.

What I am stoked about is seeing accessories and clothing specific for women that are functional AND good looking......and not "girly"......of course "girly" is available if that blows their hair back......


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

River19 said:


> I've noticed less pinking and shrinking in the past few years and some dedicated shredders and solid builds from Yeti, C-Dale, Liv obviously etc. In addition I think many bikes with more modern trail geometry are closer to unisex than ever. PErfect example is my 5'5" wife who is a little longer in torso than leg rides a medium Pivot 429T and I ride a large of the same bike......and she absolutely shreds on it. The short reach and low stand over of many of the newer bikes reduce the need for a whole separate line for women.
> 
> What I am stoked about is seeing accessories and clothing specific for women that are functional AND good looking......and not "girly"......of course "girly" is available if that blows their hair back......


I disagree completely. There is still plenty of pinking and shrinking, and in Yeti's case, just pinking.

Pinking isn't literal--it's just marketing to women. Everything should be unisex--none of this sex specific--it's biker specific.

I have bought women's specific bikes in the past. What I found is:
1. The suspension is spring for lighter riders. I don't qualify, even when I get down to my fighting weight (185 now, fighting weight would be around 150 lbs).
2. The components are usually not the same quality, although that's changing.
3. The resale on them is horrible.

However, it does provide an excellent entry point for women getting into mountain biking where otherwise they would be subjected to a 20 year old bike that's falling apart that's too big for them (although you still occasionally see this).

It does have its place, but I'm not their target market. When they start having womens' specific DH bikes (Transition Syren was the first, and honestly ahead of their time making a burly women's bike), I'll be super stoked. Because that's what I want to see. A heavy duty women's bike that can handle the abuse of DH runs. 

In the meantime, I'll keep on riding what I can test ride that I like. That's what I have to do--even with DH bikes. I was looking for a DH sled, but it looks like my Megatrail is just fine for DH work (considering I'm no where near hitting the double blacks).

My next choice is either a short travel trail bike or an aggressive hardtail. And I'm still not looking for a women's bike.


----------



## River19 (Jul 3, 2007)

stripes said:


> I disagree completely. There is still plenty of pinking and shrinking, and in Yeti's case, just pinking.
> 
> Pinking isn't literal--it's just marketing to women. Everything should be unisex--none of this sex specific--it's biker specific.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure exactly where you "disagree completely"...... as I made a few different points in my post.

Are you disagreeing that it is good to see a much more robust array of women's specific accessories that are functional first and of the same quality as "men's" and in normal colors?

Are you disagreeing that the companies that still produce "women's specific" bikes are including decent builds now?

Are you disagreeing that many of the bikes based on "newer geaometry" can easily fit most women just as easily as they accomodate men?

You don't like the fact that Yeti slaps hot pink stickers on their Fox components.....got it......

The companies that were going the "shrink and pink" route continue to hold onto that strategy as they believe a niche in the market thinks they need a gender specific bike......they wouldn't build them if they didn't sell, right wrong or indifferent. I don't see many new companies entering the fray on the pink and shrink. Maybe I'm wrong, it has happened before.

What I do see are many companies saying "we build bikes for riders in an array of sizes including smalls and extra smalls.....if you are a rider, male or female we have something to fit you".....that goes for aggressive bikes as well......

Now I agree with you on the demoing of XS and S size rigs of quality is hard, however I also completely get the posters point above about the structure of a demo fleet and the constraints they have to deal with. If there was high demand for a XS DH bike with a $7000 build, it would be in the demo fleet.

The reality is there are small ass men out there too that are tough to fit. It isn't a women specific thing and I think the industry is really coming around to the fact that women shred just like men do and many don't like pink **** on their bike.


----------



## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

I personally think that components should all have a heavy duty and a light duty version. Gonna race downhill? Here's your burly component set. Weigh 100lbs soaking wet? Here's your ultra light kit. Regardless of gender, that would cater to all riders, including children. What's that old adage? Cheap, light, strong: pick two. Yes, you can get lightweight components, but they're also strong and not cheap. Well what if I want cheap and light, but not strong? I'm SOL. The reality is that no matter how hard I am on my equipment, I'm never going to put it through the same rigours as someone twice my weight. Regardless of gender, a person weighing 120lbs on a 30lb bike is pushing 25% of their body weight uphill while a person weighing 100lbs is pushing 16.67%. Unfortunately due to cost versus demand, that's not going to happen any time soon. But imagine being able to go into a bike shop in the future and 3D printing a frame with thinner walls for a light rider or some uber burly bars for a linebacker. 

On the subject of cranks... WTF? I should be on 165mm cranks, as should most people below like 5'6". Even XS women's bikes come with 170mm cranks! 165mm cranks are made, so why are they not specced on small bikes? It doesn't make any sense. 

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


----------



## River19 (Jul 3, 2007)

mahgnillig said:


> I personally think that components should all have a heavy duty and a light duty version. Gonna race downhill? Here's your burly component set. Weigh 100lbs soaking wet? Here's your ultra light kit. Regardless of gender, that would cater to all riders, including children. What's that old adage? Cheap, light, strong: pick two. Yes, you can get lightweight components, but they're also strong and not cheap. Well what if I want cheap and light, but not strong? I'm SOL. The reality is that no matter how hard I am on my equipment, I'm never going to put it through the same rigours as someone twice my weight. Regardless of gender, a person weighing 120lbs on a 30lb bike is pushing 25% of their body weight uphill while a person weighing 100lbs is pushing 16.67%. Unfortunately due to cost versus demand, that's not going to happen any time soon. But imagine being able to go into a bike shop in the future and 3D printing a frame with thinner walls for a light rider or some uber burly bars for a linebacker.
> 
> On the subject of cranks... WTF? I should be on 165mm cranks, as should most people below like 5'6". Even XS women's bikes come with 170mm cranks! 165mm cranks are made, so why are they not specced on small bikes? It doesn't make any sense.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


Agree 100%.

I was discussing this with my wife.....She shreds on her Pivot but at the end of the day her medium pivot, while it fits her fine weighs only about 1 lb les than my large of the same bike and I have much more leverage and size than she does.

I think this aspect rarely gets talked about....but as we know, light, strong and cheap....pick two.....


----------



## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

mahgnillig said:


> I personally think that components should all have a heavy duty and a light duty version. Gonna race downhill? Here's your burly component set. Weigh 100lbs soaking wet? Here's your ultra light kit. Regardless of gender, that would cater to all riders, including children. What's that old adage? Cheap, light, strong: pick two. Yes, you can get lightweight components, but they're also strong and not cheap. Well what if I want cheap and light, but not strong? I'm SOL. The reality is that no matter how hard I am on my equipment, I'm never going to put it through the same rigours as someone twice my weight. Regardless of gender, a person weighing 120lbs on a 30lb bike is pushing 25% of their body weight uphill while a person weighing 100lbs is pushing 16.67%. Unfortunately due to cost versus demand, that's not going to happen any time soon. But imagine being able to go into a bike shop in the future and 3D printing a frame with thinner walls for a light rider or some uber burly bars for a linebacker.
> 
> On the subject of cranks... WTF? I should be on 165mm cranks, as should most people below like 5'6". Even XS women's bikes come with 170mm cranks! 165mm cranks are made, so why are they not specced on small bikes? It doesn't make any sense.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


What about riders who are under 100 lbs and need heavy duty parts? The two aren't mutually exclusive. Not being snarky here about it, being serious.

I have a buddy of mine who's under 100 lbs, 5'1", and rides faster and harder on any DH that anyone on a big bike can do. Two problems: she can't find a big bike to fit her, and she needs some seriously heavy duty parts.


----------



## mahgnillig (Mar 12, 2004)

stripes said:


> What about riders who are under 100 lbs and need heavy duty parts? The two aren't mutually exclusive. Not being snarky here about it, being serious.
> 
> I have a buddy of mine who's under 100 lbs, 5'1", and rides faster and harder on any DH that anyone on a big bike can do. Two problems: she can't find a big bike to fit her, and she needs some seriously heavy duty parts.


I totally agree! There are lots of kids who rip too but can't find a DH bike that properly fits. I would like to see companies building frames all the way down to XS (or even XXS). If they don't want to spend the money for the carbon moulds, fine... build them out of alu first to gauge demand and if they sell well, then start carbon production.

Your friend is precisely the reason that the mix and match philosophy should be applied to all bikes... she's atypical and has needs that would be best served if companies produced light, medium and heavy duty versions of all the components. The biggest problem is that bikes and components are built for average sized, average weight men. They're not designed for anyone whose needs deviate from 'average'.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## maclgallant (Feb 11, 2006)

FYI Ladies, 

I just purchased my GF a Giant Trance 4 XS
she's 4"10 inseam of 27 inches
fits her like a glove with a few mm to spare (inseam)
i spend a lot of time looking at Geo's for a AM bike for her
funny enough the Trance has a lower stand-over height than the Liv Hail....

I made a few mods to make the bike fit perfect

-STEM: Stock 60mm to a Funn 35mm (removed almost all spacers ) 
-BAR: Stock 750mm riser to Funn 710mm flat with 9 degree sweep
-Cut 2 inches off the seatpost
TIRES: Stock "wire bead nobby nic 2.25 (690g)"
New: F: Hans Dampf 2.35 trailstar 790g 
R: Conti Mountain King II 2.4" 870g

bike came in around 29.8 lbs with pedals and the heavier tires(after swaping the bar, stem and tires) not bad for $1600

NOTE* also since she has very small hands it was nice to find out the Shimano M315 brakes are reach adjustable with the use of an allen key!

to do (future):

- switching the stock rt56 rotors(resin only) with rt66 and replacing the stock B01S Resin pads with new Sintered E01S pads next!
-tubeless conversion

-this winter i'll be sending the Suntour Aion (which has been great)
to S4 suspension for a custom tuning (custom negative spring)
currently at 45 PSI she's loosing about 25mm


----------

