# Bike advice / identity crisis



## Alan-S (Nov 4, 2005)

So, I grew up with BMX racing in the late '80's and early '90's. Been XC mountainbiking since the late 90's. I am a fairly technical rider and I also ride road. My son is 2.5 and already ripping. Problem is that the only bike I have that I can ride without cleats is an old Gary Fisher that I have converted to SS. I have the seat slammed, but it still feels huge when I get it on the pump track or do any jumping.

I want something that I will be able to ride as my son progresses. A little DJ, skatepark, Flow Track, and Pump track. And of course something to play around with in the street and back yard, haha. At first I was thinking 24" BMX like a Sunday Model-C, but then I took a 2011 Specialized P2 for a spin, and really liked it. Something that bunny hops and manuals well is very important.

These are the 4 bikes that I am leaning toward, what do you guys think?

http://www.sundaybikes.com/catalog/completes/plus-4/model-c-ex/

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCProduct.jsp?spid=52714&scid=1004&scname=Dirt/Park/Street

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCProduct.jsp?spid=52718&scid=1004&scname=Dirt/Park/Street

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BI276R00-Rocky+Mountain+Flow+Dj++09.aspx


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## luckybastard (Sep 29, 2006)

Go with the Flow! That price is great. I just got a Eastern Thunderbird and love it. I was also looking for something to play around on with the kids.


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## andrewschramm (Sep 13, 2010)

I would go with the flow as well. But that p2 looks awfully tasty...


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## Alan-S (Nov 4, 2005)

Yea, the P2 looks nice, it is actually the white/purple one that they have in stock.


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## Alan-S (Nov 4, 2005)

When you compare the pictures of the P2 and Flow DJ, they look almost identical.


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## andrewschramm (Sep 13, 2010)

If you've ridden the p2 and you like it then you should go for it. But you could save a ton of money for something with an almost identical part spec. Decisions, decisions...


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## Hoka Hey (Nov 10, 2010)

I am new here and have been in your shoes. I bought a Model C this summer and have really liked it. Fun doing some flatland stuff as well as goofing around at the park. I bought an Eastern Night Train from Jenson and have barely ridden the Model C or my Floval Flyer (race bike). I opted for the purple forked Night Train because of the Argyle fork for $800. Seemed like a good value to me? I have ridden at the park, on dirt(no jumps yet) and lots around town. I can bunnyhop the Night Train higher than my Model C and spin easier as well. NOTE: the only DJ bike I have ever ridden is the one I own and it has been 2 weeks.


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## Alan-S (Nov 4, 2005)

I saw that deal at Jenson also. I was not sure about the left side drive. I don't know enough about that to make an educated decision, I assume it is for rails?


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Alan-S said:


> So, I grew up with BMX racing in the late '80's and early '90's. Been XC mountainbiking since the late 90's. I am a fairly technical rider and I also ride road. My son is 2.5 and already ripping. Problem is that the only bike I have that I can ride without cleats is an old Gary Fisher that I have converted to SS. I have the seat slammed, but it still feels huge when I get it on the pump track or do any jumping.
> 
> I want something that I will be able to ride as my son progresses. A little DJ, skatepark, Flow Track, and Pump track. And of course something to play around with in the street and back yard, haha. At first I was thinking 24" BMX like a Sunday Model-C, but then I took a 2011 Specialized P2 for a spin, and really liked it. Something that bunny hops and manuals well is very important.
> 
> ...


The first decision is between suspension fork or rigid. Even though I rode bmx for 20+ years, I have grown to love a well-tuned dirt jump suspension fork. It saves your azz when you need it to, it smooths everything out, and you can go bigger on jumps, park and street, (even more confidence on bmx track) without worrying about the occasional nose case etc. If you're young or still have very sturdy wrists, then rigid's great. But not for me any more. I ride a Blackmarket Mob 26" mtb. But the P2 is also an excellent bike. I don't know anything first hand about the Rocky Mountain but one plus is that it has a Marzocchi fork. Avoid RST and Suntour forks.

If you go for a 24" BMX, the P24 is well-done bike. However, the LIQUID Feedback 24" is the most innovative/progressive 24" out there right now. Super short chain stay, long front end, medium high (but not super-high) bottom bracket. Only drawback is that it is frame only and you'd have to buy parts to build it up. The Specialized P24 is probably the closest to the Liquid currently out there. 
As for the Model C (and other bikes that copied it like the We The People Avenger 24" and the new FIT CR 24) I personally think the super-high bottom bracket (13.75" instead of the usual 12") works a little better for medium height or shorter riders. Tall riders may feel like they are standing very high over the bike and hunching down a lot to the grips--usually the reason older guys pick cruisers over 20"s is to avoid hunching so much. Don't get me wrong though, Sunday is a rad company and a lot of people do like the Model C, so you should try to test ride one and see if it works for you.

check out this background on the LIQUID Feedback:

*Liquid Bikes - new website! *http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230273


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## Hoka Hey (Nov 10, 2010)

Not sure about left side either...I haven't even noticed it. I do think in wet conditions it may not be the best having the brake next to the chain(if you use brakes?). But if I hate it I will buy a new hub and switch it.


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## Alan-S (Nov 4, 2005)

The other thing that I did not disclose was that my wife will be riding it too. Pretty sure that I am going to go ahead with the Flow or the P2, then get a 24" BMX next spring or summer for me, if the DJ bike isn't exactly what I was looking for.

The P2 at my local shop is a Large, but it looks like that is the only size that they make? I am 5'8" and my wife is 5'7". 

Also, how can I compare the specs on the two bikes? They both have their own components, Rocky Mountain this and Specialized that.... I guess I will just go to the local shop and see how low I can get them on the price for the P2, my wife is sponsored by them for XC so we might get a better deal than 950.


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## TCR1 (Mar 25, 2004)

Alan-S said:


> When you compare the pictures of the P2 and Flow DJ, they look almost identical.


Looks to me like the chainstay of the P2 is slightly shorter. HAven't looked at the full specs on them both in a little while though. Top tube length may be a deciding factor if both you and your wife are going to ride it though.

Left side drive is great for those of us that slide/grind predominantly on the right side, but outsdie of that, I don't see an advantage.


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## Alan-S (Nov 4, 2005)

This is driving me nuts. Now I am starting to wonder if the P2 is too big.

Maybe i just need to order a Sunday Model C and call it a day


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## TCR1 (Mar 25, 2004)

Alan-S said:


> This is driving me nuts. Now I am starting to wonder if the P2 is too big.
> 
> Maybe i just need to order a Sunday Model C and call it a day


I am 5'8" also and the P1 from 2010 felt pretty good for me. I preferred a 2009 Cannondale Chase 1 in size small though. the ay the cockpit is set up makes a huge difference. I test rode an older model aluminum P bike and it felt akward as could be. Different people like different set ups though.

Also as far as comparing specs, I have decided that if it is a house brand piece, then they are equal. Look at drive train and wheels. Geometry is a bigger deciding factor as the frame will be around and components will/may be replaced t personal preferences.


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## Hoka Hey (Nov 10, 2010)

For what it is worth my Night Train manuals and hops better than my Model C...or at least I can make it do those things better. Don't get me wrong I like my Model C a lot, but I have a feeling if I had purchased the Night Train first I would have not felt a need to get anything else. I did put a detangler, front brakes and pegs on the Model C so it serves a different purpose I guess. I have been riding the DJ bike at the park and urban and leaving the others to sit. At a touch over 6' I would probably like a little bigger frame than the Night Train... but for now I am perfectly happy.


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## zadey1234 (May 7, 2007)

I'd watch the p2, Might be harder to hop because of the lower bottom bracket.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Alan-S said:


> This is driving me nuts. Now I am starting to wonder if the P2 is too big.
> 
> Maybe i just need to order a Sunday Model C and call it a day


Although a "Medium" is more of a match for you, I think you will be fine on the Long P.2. 573mm (22.55" actual top tube). They come with short reach stems and the seat tube angle is kicked back slighly more, so i think it sounds slightly longer than it really feels.

mtbmx / DJ bikes are measured in the bmx style (actual top tube measured from center of head tube to center of seat tube). 21.5" top tube is considered Small. 22" and 22.25" are Medium. 22.5" - 23" would be considered Large. anything over 23" would be XL although that's unusual for a dirt jumper.

so for example, the Blackmarket MOB frame comes in 21.5, 22", 22.25" and 22.5". i'm 6'1" and my friend Mike is 6'2" and we both ride the longest one. however, compared to other bikes, it's still really not that long. i ride mine with a 55mm reach stem. if someone else rode it with a 40mm reach stem, that's about half inch difference right there.

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=52718&eid=4348&menuItemId=9252&gold_ses=

you should definitely check out the Eastern Night Train and Blackmarket Soldier though.

Look, here's an Eastern Thunderbird with a Marzocchi fork for $999:
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BI267R01-Eastern+Thunderbird+Bike+2011.aspx


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## Alan-S (Nov 4, 2005)

Yea, I like that Thunderbird, but it costs me $150 more, does not have as good of a fork and weighs almost a full 5 lbs more.

Thanks for the comments guys. I will post pics of whatever I end up with.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

alan, check your pms


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