# First Aid?



## Univega777 (Jun 27, 2012)

what do you guys carry for FA?

i carry this on any extended rides. US army IFAK. you get seriously impaled or lacerated out there this thing will save your life :thumbsup:










the smaller camo pouch is just like a regular first aid kit. bumps and scapes and what not. i only take it when i go camping or on an overnight expedition.


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## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

i sort of feel like you either need a bandaid/advil, or you need a medevac. unless one is a doctor or medic, one probably shouldn't attempt to use half of the stuff in that kit. boy scouts do all that training on immobilizing limbs and improvised splints and all that so their buddy can theoretically walk for a few days on that broken leg. um, no, just get a chopper. just my opinion.


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## teatreetim (Nov 14, 2011)

I carry plenty of saline bottles and a small brush for washing gravel rash. Had to use it but too dazed to appreciate the experience. Superglue is good too!


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## Univega777 (Jun 27, 2012)

Bill in Houston said:


> i sort of feel like you either need a bandaid/advil, or you need a medevac. unless one is a doctor or medic, one probably shouldn't attempt to use half of the stuff in that kit. boy scouts do all that training on immobilizing limbs and improvised splints and all that so their buddy can theoretically walk for a few days on that broken leg. um, no, just get a chopper. just my opinion.


so a chopper will get there before i bleed out? this thing will keep me alive till one gets there or an ambulance. i know how to use all the stuff in there. also if there is someone else that is injured that i might come along. it could save their life too. if i didnt carry it and came across someone that i could have saved with it. i would feel like an *******...


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

I have what amounts to a (junk drawer) like most of have in our kitchens, a bit of everything: bandaids, alcohol(non drinking kind... LOL), zip ties wire, duct tape, aspirin, liquid skin, all the usual stuff.


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## Rock dude (May 24, 2007)

Good for you.
I'm glad there's someone out there thinking about there fellow riders.
I just carry a standard first aid kit.


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## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

Univega777 said:


> so a chopper will get there before i bleed out? this thing will keep me alive till one gets there or an ambulance. i know how to use all the stuff in there. also if there is someone else that is injured that i might come along. it could save their life too. if i didnt carry it and came across someone that i could have saved with it. i would feel like an *******...


It is great that you know how to use all that stuff. I am sure that you will put it to good use.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

This is an awesome thread...

+1 rep... Uni777

So, may I add a question/comment, Please add any "natural" cures you know of we find along the way? Might be good to add "location" of such growing things, so I'm not looking around Pennsylvania for the cure of "spenditus"(the spending of mega dollars on bicycle related items) and find out it only grows in Antarctica!... LOL

Here's one: Jewel weed great for Poison Ivy. The link mentions a brand source although I have never used it, I always go for the natural plant, that has worked in many occasions while riding or, more so building trails for the treatment of PI of Poison Oak also. 
Jewelweed, Poison Ivy Treatment from Nature


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

Here's what my basic first-aid kit includes:

tweezers
oral thermometer
lighter
moleskin
non-stick gauze pads
athletic tape
band aids
emergency pain killers
Benedryl
Tylenol


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## Univega777 (Jun 27, 2012)

yeah i have tourniquet in there too. that is also a live saver for snake bites. if i know for sure i got a lethal bite and no chance at civilization in time i would rather lose an arm or leg than my life. i added a bit to my kit. but the standard IFAK is very lightweight. i think every outdoors-men should carry one. at least the quick clot and compression bandages and tourniquet. wouldn't add barely any weight for those conscious of that.


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

Univega777 said:


> yeah i have tourniquet in there too. that is also a live saver for snake bites. if i know for sure i got a lethal bite and no chance at civilization in time i would rather lose an arm or leg than my life. i added a bit to my kit. but the standard IFAK is very lightweight. i think every outdoors-men should carry one. at least the quick clot and compression bandages and tourniquet. wouldn't add barely any weight for those conscious of that.


You might want to rethink using a tourniquet for snake bites. Medical organizations do not recommend them anymore. They've proven to be extremely dangerous, without any benefits. I used to carry one too in the old days, but no longer. Google the topic, and you'll find lots of good advice on how to life through a bite.


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## Univega777 (Jun 27, 2012)

TobyGadd said:


> You might want to rethink using a tourniquet for snake bites. Medical organizations do not recommend them anymore. They've proven to be extremely dangerous, without any benefits. I used to carry one too in the old days, but no longer. Google the topic, and you'll find lots of good advice on how to life through a bite.


yeah that is why it would only be last resort. if an EMT is on the way then you dont need it. but if you are 100 miles from dodge and cant just call an EMT it is a totally diff story. if i used it i would already be under the impression that the limb is going to be amputated.


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

Univega777 said:


> yeah that is why it would only be last resort. if an EMT is on the way then you dont need it. but if you are 100 miles from dodge and cant just call an EMT it is a totally diff story. if i used it i would already be under the impression that the limb is going to be amputated.


I haven't found any reputable source that states that a tourniquet helps in any situation. If you can find one, please let me know.


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## Univega777 (Jun 27, 2012)

TobyGadd said:


> I haven't found any reputable source that states that a tourniquet helps in any situation. If you can find one, please let me know.


i definitely would not recommend anyone use a tourniquet for "treatment" of a snakebite. like the black mamba for example. you have like 20 minutes if you keep your heart rate down. even in a suburb with someone immediately dialing 911 you are still probably dead. if you were to put a tourniquet on a limb that was bitten immediately and tighten it as much as you can there will be no blood flow to or from that limb. if there is no blood flow you cant be killed by the venom. you will lose the arm and may have complications or even die still. but you will have a lot more time to get treatment than 20 minutes. but yeah for a regular rattle snake bite you most likely aren't going to die. even if you don't get treatment you can still live.


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

Univega777 said:


> i definitely would not recommend anyone use a tourniquet for "treatment" of a snakebite. like the black mamba for example. you have like 20 minutes if you keep your heart rate down. even in a suburb with someone immediately dialing 911 you are still probably dead. if you were to put a tourniquet on a limb that was bitten immediately and tighten it as much as you can there will be no blood flow to or from that limb. if there is no blood flow you cant be killed by the venom. you will lose the arm and may have complications or even die still. but you will have a lot more time to get treatment than 20 minutes. but yeah for a regular rattle snake bite you most likely aren't going to die. even if you don't get treatment you can still live.


Right, no black mambas unless you're in Africa.


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## Univega777 (Jun 27, 2012)

IIRC they have problems with invasive Mambas in the US. albiet you probably wont see many snakes that can kill you that fast.the tourniquet will still save you from not bleeding out in other situations. it also makes a very good pressure apparatus for holding gauze tight to a puncture or laceration to stop bleeding. i should make some improvisation videos for that sometime.


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## Univega777 (Jun 27, 2012)

also a good tid bit for bikers. if you ever are starved for food. you can eat the roots of queen annes lace. very nutritious and packed fulla vitamins. they are in the carrot family. they are very common along roadsides and trails. that have a big flat white flower. i eat them a lot. very tastey


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

The incredible cattail - The super Wal-Mart of the swamp by Kevin F. Duffy Issue #43


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

I carry a small waterproof first aid kit with various bandages, alcohol/benzoin swabs, tweezers, and a couple of anti-diarrheals and anti-histamines. I do not carry a medical kit, instead relying on first aid.

For the vast majority of non-life threatening injuries, first aid is sufficient, and I always make sure to leave a timeframe for when I should be expected back or when I will check in. That is my safety net for serious injury. I do not go anywhere alone where there is a significant chance of both serious injury and it is unlikely to encounter any other people with regularity.


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## Addy Marx (Jul 18, 2009)

This is what I pack with me for bikepacking/touring if I'm out for more than a few days.

*small pack of steri strips
*0.5mL krazy glue (never had to use it yet, I heard it stings like a B though)
*little bit of kinesiotex tape and micropore tape (foot treatment. happy feet, happy trip)
*1 pair nitrile gloves (sometimes) clean hands for cleaning things.
*chewable pepto bismal (6 or 12 depending on trip length)
*benadryl tablet (2), I have minor allergies but just suck it up.
*immodium (2)
*duct tape and electrical tape from bike repair kit in case combined with a bit of TP make bandaids.
*wet ones from my sh*t kit to clean things.
*got a SPOT last year from my loved ones. They are happier now, I am happy that they are happy.
*I don't carry a phone when I ride, no reception when I'd need it most anyway.

I ride by myself and do 95% of my trips by myself. I have rules that I ride by and don't break them, ever. I don't take risks outside of the inherent risks of riding a bike by yourself in the 'middle of nowhere'. I have first aid training, knowledge and experience. I trust myself, I am good at riding bikes and I know my limits. If I get my arm bitten off by a momma griz, then I'll deal with that as best I can when that situation arises, just like I deal with a flat tire or some cold weather or being short on water. I do my homework before I go places and I get in shape. I respect the power of nature and that I am part of it when I am out there. If I need to bail on something I do.

It's just bike riding.


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## Univega777 (Jun 27, 2012)

Addy Marx said:


> I have first aid training, knowledge and experience. I trust myself, I am good at riding bikes and I know my limits. If I get my arm bitten off by a momma griz, then I'll deal with that as best I can when that situation arises, just like I deal with a flat tire or some cold weather or being short on water. I do my homework before I go places and I get in shape. I respect the power of nature and that I am part of it when I am out there. If I need to bail on something I do.
> 
> It's just bike riding.


haha yeah hopefully you dont get timothy treadwelled. ROFL it is good that you know first aid though. duck tape is also a life saver too.


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## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

tim was asking for it. sad, sad.


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## Univega777 (Jun 27, 2012)

what was even more sad was he brought a chic with him. and she got it too.


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## B1KER (Jul 19, 2006)

I'm not try to troll this post, but that just seems a little excessive. But if that is what makes you feel good out on the trails, more power to ya. If I ever get impailed and need medical help, hopefully you or someone like you is around. I definitely won't have any such things with me. I have a small prefab kit from REI and that's it.


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## sandcritter (Jun 2, 2009)

“Sometimes I make some money doin' comedy. I made $3000 opening for the Neville Brothers, and they paid me in cash, so I had $3000 in my front pocket. That was a bad situation, because then I start to buy ridulous sh**. Like, I bought a snake-bite emergency repair kit. Then I said to my friends, 'Don't even worry about snakes anymore.' Then my friend stepped on a worm, I said, 'Lay down.'

Snake bite emergency repair kit... is a body bag.”

- late comedian Mitch Hedberg

All well and good if folks want to pack out pounds of stuff every ride. Even endorse it if it's a multi-day adventure. But really, most injuries fall into two categories:

1. Bloody, painful, but not as big a deal as you think, or
2. Bad news.

The former you limp out with cussing, kit or no kit, get some help and you'll be fine.
The latter, well, there's nothing in your kit that's going to make a difference, unless that includes cell/sat radio.

There are exceptions, but you get the idea.

sandcritter md


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## Univega777 (Jun 27, 2012)

weight is a non issue for me. im not riding any races. as long as i am used to the weight and can handle it. and like i said you dont have to carry what i am. just carrying a compression bandage and quick clot would be great for any biker. even for smaller stuff. it nice to be able to stop bleeding really fast and keep moving.

i mainly carry this in case of other schmucks that have absolutely no clue. and also i bike a lot of ATV trails. they get seriously injured a lot. i dont just think about myself. i keep the next guy in mind too.


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## D45yth (Jan 30, 2009)

TobyGadd said:


> Right, no black mambas unless you're in Africa.


Have you not seen Kill Bill 2? rft:

Kill Bill: Vol. 2 (6/12) Movie CLIP - Budd Meets the Black Mamba (2004) HD - YouTube


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## Univega777 (Jun 27, 2012)

D45yth said:


> Have you not seen Kill Bill 2? rft:


ROFL i havent seen any of those movies


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## Addy Marx (Jul 18, 2009)

> But really, most injuries fall into two categories:
> 
> 1. Bloody, painful, but not as big a deal as you think, or
> 2. Bad news.


Exactly my thoughts. I prepare my kit based on this.



> i dont just think about myself. i keep the next guy in mind too.


You are a good person for doing this. I have helped with a few first aids on trail. Hopefully none in the future more major than what I've assisted with thus far. So is life, we have to look out for each other.


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## bandit1 (Jun 27, 2011)

sandcritter said:


> All well and good if folks want to pack out pounds of stuff every ride. Even endorse it if it's a multi-day adventure. But really, most injuries fall into two categories:
> 
> 1. Bloody, painful, but not as big a deal as you think, or
> 2. Bad news.


yea, we use to joke around in the Marines that we could blow off an arm, walk to our medics and with all they had at their disposal, they would hand us a bottle of 800mg Motrin and tell us to take 2, we will be fine.

When I do carry a FAK, it is more for my kids than me. As far as me is concerned, I have spit and a shirt, with both in most cases, I will be fine till I get home. I am in proccess of teaching the kiddies basic first aid from my USMC First Aid mannual. Is it a lil excessive for 8 and 11 year olds to learn first aid from a militay book, I personally dont think so. I think it will serve them well through life. Infact most of the time I dont even carry the FAK, one of the kids do. They know they are in charge of it when they have it and if we need it, we call for the "medic" ie person with the FAK. I have not gotten into some of the more advanced first aid like treating heat and cold casulties or shock yet, but in another year or so I will get into that with the older kids, then when the younger ones are about the same age, they will get the same lessons.


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## Eazy_E (Sep 30, 2011)

I dunno, if I run into a problem that an Israeli or an ACE can't fix, it might well be my time to punch out.


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## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

An Israeli? Aren't they a little heavy to carry around?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Bill in Houston said:


> An Israeli? Aren't they a little heavy to carry around?


My life was saved by an Israeli (srsly, my oncologist is Israeli). A life saved is worth any weight penalty. I would pit him in a BOB trailer.

My FAK is basic.

The main components of it are for stopping bleeding and general wound care. I have bandages and gauze of various sizes. I also keep items for blisters, ticks, allergic reactions, minor pain, insect bites/stings, and immobilizing a limb. Common issues. I do not bother with carrying gear for anything more serious, and I ride with people who have the training to use the stuff (doctors). They don't carry that crap, either. I have rendered assistance to people in the past, and like others, I've seen that the problems are either minor or BAD, needing evac.

The worst I've helped with was a concussion. I have also assisted folks with heat stress problems, profusely bleeding wounds, etc. what I carry has been fine.

I also encountered a guy who had a heart attack in his kayak and died. Nothing short of hauling a defibrillator would have helped him and those are not exactly affordable or practical for laypeople to carry. He needed a medivac but by the time anyone got to him, it was too late

I know people who carry dental surgery equipment yet have no training to use it. WTF? My wife does but would never carry that crap.


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## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

NateHawk said:


> My life was saved by an Israeli (srsly, my oncologist is Israeli). A life saved is worth any weight penalty. I would pit him in a BOB trailer.


Well, of course it's worth the weight. I just thought the BOB would get too bumpy for him.


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## B1KER (Jul 19, 2006)

bandit1 said:


> yea, we use to joke around in the Marines that we could blow off an arm, walk to our medics and with all they had at their disposal, they would hand us a bottle of 800mg Motrin and tell us to take 2, we will be fine..


LMFAO!!!! I was in the infantry and I swear to god the only thing they taught the medics is how to give pre-deployment shots and how to hand out IBprophen.


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## Eazy_E (Sep 30, 2011)

If the problem is:

Crotch and up- Aspirin
Crotch and down- Foot powder.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Bill in Houston said:


> Well, of course it's worth the weight. I just thought the BOB would get too bumpy for him.


Use a BOB Ibex with suspension. Duh.


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

sandcritter said:


> ...1. Bloody, painful, but not as big a deal as you think, or
> 2. Bad news.
> 
> The former you limp out with cussing, kit or no kit, get some help and you'll be fine.
> The latter, well, there's nothing in your kit that's going to make a difference, unless that includes cell/sat radio.


I wish more people were conversant in mathematical statistics because then these conversations get much simpler, but in a nutshell... ^^^this. I need to add a couple more benadryl tabs to my kit just in case we run into yellow jackets and someone has a bad reaction, but in a really bad scenario without an epi-pen I suppose one's just picked a scenic spot to check out. Most useful unit so far is the skinbond/superglue... works for stuff besides just skin in a pinch. Also works GREAT for patching up dog feet/nails.

But everyone's gotta deal with their own fears/paranoia for themselves. I have a friend that's getting ready to do a 7 day backpacking trip and as broke as they are her husband's buying a handgun 'to be safe'.  Out of respect I tried to quash my immediate "WTF?!?" reaction and told her if they were gonna spend money on anything to be 'safe' on a trip like that, I'd sure as hell opt for a SPOT unit instead. The gun will only be useful in an _extremely_ limited and _highly unlikely_ set of circumstances in the area they'll be in... med evacs OTOH are not at all unknown.

At this point it sounds like they'll have both, and I'm sincerely hoping they need neither.


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## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

verslowrdr said:


> The gun will only be useful in an _extremely_ limited and _highly unlikely_ set of circumstances...


...that they are completely untrained for. sigh.


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

Bill in Houston said:


> ...that they are completely untrained for. sigh.


You could mathematically make the argument that the situation they'd need to use it in is so unlikely that 'training for' or 'not training for' would make no difference in the outcome.

But hey, you gotta be prepared for the scariest scenario at all times....


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## Univega777 (Jun 27, 2012)

Haha. a gun is always good to carry. no matter where you are. like those poor souls in that movie theatre. if a couple people were even able to carry in the theatre that dude could have been dead after only maybe a few people got killed not twelve. but yeah if you dont have any training a gun prolly isnt your best bet.


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## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

NateHawk said:


> Use a BOB Ibex with suspension. Duh.


Man, you got it alllll figured out.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

There is plenty of discussion in Off Camber about the CO incident, but based on what I've heard about the incident, a few people with CCW would not have been likely to make much difference in a theater full of people too young to get a CCW permit.

Mass chaos seems an apt description once people figured out what was going on.

Let's talk about the stats for a minute. I have a bit of understanding here.

Considering that the most common backcountry COD is from falls, I guess that means I should be carrying a parachute at all times, right? And what about protection from lightning? I guess that means I need to add a Faraday cage to my packing list.

What else am I missing?


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## Univega777 (Jun 27, 2012)

NateHawk said:


> There is plenty of discussion in Off Camber about the CO incident, but based on what I've heard about the incident, a few people with CCW would not have been likely to make much difference in a theater full of people too young to get a CCW permit.
> 
> Mass chaos seems an apt description once people figured out what was going on.
> 
> ...


what the hell are you talking about?


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

Alright, let's everyone settle down. This forum is about BIKEPACKING, not mass murders. If you want to discuss Aurora's movie theater killings, please do it elsewhere--or I'll start deleting posts. Not that the killings aren't important, just that this isn't the place to discuss gun rights, gun control, etc.

Thanks,
Your bikepacking Moderator


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## kimbroughhg (Apr 29, 2011)

i carry enough for a twisted ankle or gashes anything more than that, well just pray it never happens =)


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## bikewright (Dec 7, 2007)

I did not see (or read) that anyone had posted it or that it is a given, that if you are going to go riding, hiking, backpacking, camping or whatever one should have some training. There are some great Wilderness First Aid Course out there and if you are going to do these activities then you should have this as a skill set.

I have a military backgorund and Scouting background. The training I received from each is different and has changed over the years. The military IFAK is made for blowouts or better know has gunshot wounds. What you have in there is items to open the airway and stop the bleeding period! Then you are going to call in a 9 line to MEDEVAC that person out. 

If I am planning a trip I am going to first think about Trip Planning, Risk Management, and Emergency Procedures. I think this becomes more important when I go solo.

My hiking and backpacking first aid kit is different than my bikepacking kit. Sure it might be the same 1st aid bag but I am going to change things out. When you get in the you are looking at two things Injuries & Illness, 

Injuries: Sprains, strains, soft tissue, fractures and dislocations

Illness: Gastrointestinal, diarrhea, colds, sinus, flu

So my first aid kit is going to be made up to cover this things.

Here's a list of basic items that I carry in all my kits

1- Hand Sanitizer Spray Pen
1- Roller Bandage
1- Adhesive Tape Roll - Small
2- Safety Pins
1- Burn Gels
2 Hydrocortisone Cream 1%
1- Benzalkonium Chloride Antiseptic
3- Alcohol Prep Pads
1- 3X3 Gauze Sponge
6- Band-Aids
1- Knuckle Band-Aid
1-3X3 Mole Skin
1- First Aid Instructions Book
1- Tweezers
1-Sizzors
1- Thermometer
1- Set of Gloves 

The following items would be added to it 
Lip balm- Carmex SPF 15
Chamois cream/Body Glide
Sunscreen roll-on SPF 55
Meds/ pain management
:thumbsup:


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## FireCop (Aug 3, 2012)

I carry a FAK that takes up very little room in my Camelbak. The main items are : Combat Gauze, Israeli Bandage, CPR Pocket Mask, Chest Seal. Consider that you may have to perform some immediate 1st aid on someone while you are awaiting advanced medical help, evac helicopter, etc. A fall resulting in a penetrating wound to the chest can be immediately life threatening. Do yourself and your buddies a favor and take at least a Red Cross 1st aid course or check with your local ambulance provider company for class information. Stuff can get bad real fast in the outback!


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## Blackfeather (Jun 17, 2010)

"short pine "needles = vitamin C to the 10power makes a heck of a tea for energy 
Dandiloins for upset stomach the leaves not the head but head is edable as well .
It is good to know at least 3 medicinal plants in your area and know what they look like and how to use them 
I carry
band aids 
sutchers
asprin
aleave
3 vicodin
small ace bandage
bandanna
rubber gloves 
tweezers
scissors
and a few other things just incase i come across some one else in need aswell always have


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