# KML Format?



## joelzilla (Oct 2, 2011)

I noticed that one of the trails I was looking at has a KML file... Does anybody know if KML files are compatible with Garmin GPS devices such as the Oregon 450 or eTrex30?


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## Velebit (Jan 15, 2009)

Yes, you can import kml into Garmin BaseCamp and then export to Oregon or eTrex. The 2nd solution is to convert into gpx with some free tool like GPSBabel: convert, upload, download data from GPS and Map programs


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Another one still is to use that .kml to generate a .kmz in the Garmin Custom Maps method to create a basemap out of it.


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## Wherewolf (Jan 17, 2004)

*Online converter*

Online converter.


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## dkselw (Aug 28, 2009)

NateHawk said:


> Another one still is to use that .kml to generate a .kmz in the Garmin Custom Maps method to create a basemap out of it.


The G-Raster program will tile large raster images so they can be used as custom maps on the Oregon etc.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

dkselw said:


> The G-Raster program will tile large raster images so they can be used as custom maps on the Oregon etc.


That one, among others. I didn't mention a specific program because it can be done many different ways with the end result being the same.


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## dkselw (Aug 28, 2009)

NateHawk said:


> That one, among others. I didn't mention a specific program because it can be done many different ways with the end result being the same.


And I mentioned G-Raster because it worked well for me (although in hindsight probably not relevant in this case). Note: the method for creating custom maps as documented by Garmin only works with raster images up to 1 megapixel in size. If the image is larger than 1 megapixel, then you either need to manually tile the image, or use a program to do it for you.
KMZ files are just zipped KML files along with any files referenced by the KML file.
If the map is just a KML file with no extra files, then it probably contains vector data and not raster data. Garmin custom maps are JPG raster files and a KML file containing georeferencing stored in a KMZ file.
Whatever is in the KML file, it probably is possible to convert to a format usable by the Oregon. Perhaps if you provide a link to the map in question, someone will be able to see what works.


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## rlb81 (Aug 18, 2008)

Are the garmin custom maps still limited to raster overlays in a KMZ? I have a ton of vector trail data that I use in my Delorme GPS. I'm ready to upgrade to a more modern GPS unit but I don't want to give up the ability to load my own vector data.


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## dkselw (Aug 28, 2009)

rlb81 said:


> Are the garmin custom maps still limited to raster overlays in a KMZ? I have a ton of vector trail data that I use in my Delorme GPS. I'm ready to upgrade to a more modern GPS unit but I don't want to give up the ability to load my own vector data.


With a GPS like the Garmin Oregon, if your tracks are in GPX format, just copy them into the \Garmin\GPX\ directory on the GPS. You can also create the directory \Garmin\GPX\ on a memory card and plug it into the GPS.
If your tracks are not in GPX format, you may be able to convert them with gpsbabel GPSBabel: convert, upload, download data from GPS and Map programs
I have found with my Oregon, once I get a lot of GPX files, the GPS starts to behave erratically, not just slow, but lots of image artefacts on the screen etc.
You can use TopoFusion.com | GPS Mapping Software for Windows to merge tracks to reduce this problem.
You can also create Garmin IMG files using vector data. Some programs that help with this are as follows:
JaVaWa GPS-tools | IMGfromGPX
GPSMapEdit [Main] 
Mapwel mapping software, GIS shp to Garmin GPS, MapUpload
cGPSmapper - Your Tool For Creating Maps
Making maps from OpenStreetMap for Garmin devices


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

rlb81 said:


> Are the garmin custom maps still limited to raster overlays in a KMZ? I have a ton of vector trail data that I use in my Delorme GPS. I'm ready to upgrade to a more modern GPS unit but I don't want to give up the ability to load my own vector data.


ignore the post above mine. You cannot load .kml directly onto your GPS, and converting it to .gpx won't get you what you're used to with your Delorme. Converting it all to .gpx is just one STEP in the process.

Once you get your vector data into .gpx format, you need to get yourself a copy of GPX2IMG, which will take your vector files, allow you to merge them into one, and then convert them into the format that Garmin uses for its basemaps. Making them navigable is trickier, but can be done with a fairly expensive program.


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## dkselw (Aug 28, 2009)

NateHawk said:


> ignore the post above mine.


Wow, great way to win friends. Rather than telling people to ignore someones post, how about just providing your suggestions on how to achieve the required outcome. I don't think I said anything unreasonable in my post, although I don't know anything about what formats the delorme uses for "vector trail data" or what exactly rlb81 expects from the maps. For me, I am happy just having the trails as a background map.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I see this a lot here with folks not understanding how their GPS reads and interprets data and how computer programs and GPS hardware handle things differently from each other. I have written very detailed posts in the past about how Garmins handle trail data in .gpx format. Nothing against you, but Delormes and Garmins handle things VERY differently. Trying the things you suggested would simply not work based on how I know Delormes handle data. It would only serve to confuse him and probably make him hate Garmin as a result.

Not everything you can do with a file conversion or file creation on the computer will necessarily make it work on a GPS. Garmins expect the data in a .gpx file to be organized in a very specific way. If it isn't, it gets confused and generates very erratic results.

Delormes are more flexible in the way they interpret .gpx files. So taking files that work in a Delorme and simply stuffing them into the gpx folder on a Garmin will probably create more problems than it solves.

I did not want him to be confused by the information in your post. All of those programs are good programs, but I would not send a beginner to cGPSmapper any day of the week. Topofusion is my favorite of the group and more beginner friendly.

And yes, when you take a kml and turn it into a kmz for use with Garmin Custom Maps functionality, the lines from your kml files are converted to raster format, also, and lose a lot when you zoom, as the raster resolution is not terribly high.

It can work, but is a clumsy solution. GPX2IMG does a good job. Also take a look at gpsfiledepot.com to see what Garmin compatible maps are available for your area. There may be a lot. There is a really nice trails database that covers about the eastern half of the country. It isn't perfect but it's pretty good


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## rlb81 (Aug 18, 2008)

I'm very familiar with the formats and I understood everything in dkselw's first post. As he pointed loading many GPX files will cause an issue, I don't see where he said KML is possible. Anyway, I'd have many files since there is essentially one line per trail per park. What I'm looking for is color coded trail networks as a base map without a billion steps. I'll digest the responses then see what's what.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

gpx2img will do what you want. You may need the paid version, though. the shareware version can only load 3 gpx files at once, IIRC. But you can set different colors for each trail. 

You have to convert your kml files to gpx. No way around that. He was pointing out a completely different issue with the Oregon. What he described is an issue, but it's nothing like the one I am talking about. He's talking about some kind of fuzzy memory/processing limitation. It's well documented online that having too many tracks in your gpx folder (for handhelds) or too many activities in your activity log (for fitness models) will cause the GPS to act buggy. But there's no set limit on how many, because it probably varies according to activity length, too.

I am talking about a hard incompatibility. Garmin GPS receivers cannot understand .gpx files that contain a "network" arrangement of trails with intersections and segments. If you try to load one of those into the GPS, it will break it up and only display one piece at a time. Garmins only really understand .gpx files that are tracks of previous rides, rather than layout maps.

Once you get your trails converted to .gpx from .kml, load them into gpx2img, color them how you want, and make a basemap out of them. The maps will work with either Mapsource or Basecamp, but gpx2img automatically puts them into a folder for Mapsource to use. Not sure how it will work if you only have Basecamp installed, as I have had Mapsource for many years and only fairly recently installed Basecamp.

Loading maps onto the Garmin has its own differences between your Delorme, but I won't go into that one here. If you decide to get a Garmin, that would be a better time to explain that part of the equation.


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## rlb81 (Aug 18, 2008)

I appreciate the help despite the way this thread is going. Yes, it's the internet and things get lost in translation but "ignore the post above mine" has a limited range of interpretation.

Anyway, what dkselw suggested would work fine on a delorme, but it wouldn't get me to where I want to be (which I left out of my first post, and which was noted in his/her reply). Also don't assume that anyone asking a question is a beginner. I've been a GIS specialist for 9 years so I know what I'm up against in terms of managing and manipulating data.

What I don't know the specifics of is how garmin handles data outside of a GPX. If I'm reading your response correctly, the garmin will rasterize the data inside a KMZ when you pull it in as a custom map? Or is this a separate step? As I understand the "custom maps" you can bring in existing rasters with a limit on megapixels and the number of tiles. If I'm missing something there I'd be interested to know.

GPX2IMG sounds good in theory but I've got data in KML thats already color coded and ready to go. I'm trying to limit the amount of "hand around the ass to get to the elbow" since there's already some of that dealing with the Delorme, but I've got the process down at this point. I've got way too much trail to symboloize manually at this point. So ultimately if garmin would allow you to bring in a vector based KML or KMZ that would be cool....otherwise it's probably not worth it to convert everything I already have. The delorme is much easier to customize map-wise but the form of the device is so outdated. But, it still works.


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## rlb81 (Aug 18, 2008)

I'm thinking my best bet will be to get an old android phone w/ an offline maps app and take it from there.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

yes, when you take a kmz to put on a Garmin, EVERYTHING is rasterized. I have loaded trail data that way in a pinch, but it's not the best option. detail can be pretty hard to make out. especially since I don't even want raster maps or satellite images most of the time. I'm more interested in the terrain, not the trees.

in this forum, it's best to assume beginner unless the person explains otherwise. it is helpful information that can help me frame a response. the vast majority of people who come here asking questions couldn't even tell you what GIS means.

I do agree that Delorme handles .gpx files better, but the hardware is otherwise rather dated. It'd be nice if Garmins were more flexible with the way they handled loading a vector file, and supported both .gpx and .kml, as well as not freaking out if someone loads a .gpx of a whole trail network, rather than a track.

I do not know if there are any phone apps that will handle your data the way you'd like. The unfortunate case with these things is that there are multitudes of apps (though really only a few good ones) and that most of them don't do a great job of providing feature lists and showing what distinguishes them from others, or from dedicated receivers. If you go the Android phone route, you're going to have a good bit of trial and error. I hear Gaia GPS is one of the best mapping apps, but have no specific experience with it. The GPS performance of the phone could also vary quite widely. Not sure if you care much about collecting ride stats, or if you're only checking spot locations along the way. A phone with sketchy tracking performance should at least be okay for doing spot location checks if you don't care about tracking your rides.

Seeing that you are in NJ, you might take a look at the trails that are in the GPSFileDepot collection for your state (especially the MyTrails one) and compare with what you currently have. You may not need to go through the effort of converting, so long as you're okay with the colors of the trails in the MyTrails file. You'd need to install Mapsource or Basecamp first.


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