# Specialized Hotrock 24 XC Pro weight?



## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

Does anyone know the actual weight of the Specialized Hotrock 24 XC Pro? I haven't been able to find it anywhere.


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

We've got one. I'll weigh it this weekend.

Its heavier than I would like it to be for the price. It is super high quality though. 

I made some changes to ours which brought the weight down a little:
- Rocket Ron tires
- Trailcraft 1X crankset and ring.
- SunRace Wide ratio Cassette
- Deleted the Front derailleur and front shifter.
- Changed the seat to a "THE" Icon junior saddle.

His 20" bike was like 15lbs and even though his Specialized is heavier he is faster on it.

I'm selling the 20" bike if anyone is looking for an awesome 20" wheeled MTB.

Sean


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

So its 24lbs with my mods. I can't believe its that heavy. I think that the culprits are the wheels and the fork. A Spinner Air fork would be lighter and some Stans Crest Rims with Circus Monkey Hubs would drop some weight. If I can sell his other bikes that dont fit him anymore I might build some wheels.


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## Slow poke (Jul 23, 2013)

more than likely the fork. the frame is extremely light. What about the handle bars/ stem? did you change those out?



melchionda said:


> So its 24lbs with my mods. I can't believe its that heavy. I think that the culprits are the wheels and the fork. A Spinner Air fork would be lighter and some Stans Crest Rims with Circus Monkey Hubs would drop some weight. If I can sell his other bikes that dont fit him anymore I might build some wheels.


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

The stem on the bike is a syntace stem thats pretty light, I didnt want to change that but I had to because my son needed a shorter stem. The handlebar is a carbon bar so I didnt see a need to change that. The fork is probably pretty heavy.


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

*24" Suspension Fork*

So does anyone have a lead on a 24" Suspension fork that would be lighter than would come stock on the Specialized 24 XC Pro.



Slow poke said:


> more than likely the fork. the frame is extremely light. What about the handle bars/ stem? did you change those out?


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

melchionda said:


> So does anyone have a lead on a 24" Suspension fork that would be lighter than would come stock on the Specialized 24 XC Pro.


RST F1rst 1670g (and works really well) 
Jnr has one on his XC bike and a SID on his new DH Enduro and hasn't even commented on how much better the SID is... which is pretty amazing considering the price difference. The RST is 1/4 the price and although I'm sure the SID is better it's not 4x better ... however kids weights the RST is ideal for XC whereas the SID is like having a Pike or Lyric ... The RST works out of the box with kids weights whereas the SID needs sending off for a tune (unless you're a whiz with suspension tuning)


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

Thanks for the tip. I was looking at that one. The stock fork is in need of a rebuild so I have to do something. So if the RST fork is 1670 grams, do we have any idea what weight is of the stock fork on the Hotrock 24 XC Pro?


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

melchionda said:


> Thanks for the tip. I was looking at that one. The stock fork is in need of a rebuild so I have to do something. So if the RST fork is 1670 grams, do we have any idea what weight is of the stock fork on the Hotrock 24 XC Pro?


Weigh it and add to the group knowledge  (when you strip it)

The coil spring version is 1960g ... so a bit lighter than that....at a guess 1800-850 ??? (obviously depends what the spring weighs vs the air assembly)

The web listing say's (with the usual specs can change warning CYA)
Custom SR Suntour XCR-AIR, custom Multi-Circuit Damping, air spring, 63mm travel

In my experience when advertising kids bikes "custom" usually means a cut-down/cheaper version....


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

Steve-XtC said:


> Weigh it and add to the group knowledge  (when you strip it) ..


I just pulled the trigger on an RST with remote lock out

I think I'm more excited than my son

I'll pull the stock for this weekend and weigh it and update the group

Might do the wheels next.


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

I weighed the RST fork. with the lockout cable and trigger the fork is 1750g.

I then cut off the cantilever studs and weighed it again. Now 1715g.

After I paint the spot where I cut the canti studs off I'll pull the stock fork off and weigh that one. I hope Im saving more than 100 grams.

I'm thinking now that there is a lot of weight in the wheels, especially the rear wheel.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

I just removed the steel cantilever inserts ... they are then plugged up with some nylon bolts ... one of them was a real pain to get out...I'm guessing but 30 of those 35g must be the steel inserts...

We don't have the remote ... though mostly because the forks came on the Cannondale ... I'd have probably bought the remove if I'd bought them separately



> I'm thinking now that there is a lot of weight in the wheels, especially the rear wheel.


This seems near universal unless you go into the Trailcraft prices but especially with disk hubs...

On his Cannondale it came with rim brakes and the wheel weights were acceptable and also reasonably wide (I considered just building new wheels with the same rims but in the end just bought the Crest ones) but the tires were not only useless but one weighed about 300g more than the other - both tires were heavy but 300g variation between tires is pretty poor quality

The Norco (2015) the wheels are irretrievably horrible ... SRAM 301 hubs, plain non butted spokes and narrow rims... making the fitted Maxxis Snyper even narrower profile...

I looked around at lots of alternative wheel sets and what was supplied on other bikes but in the end just went Stans Crest and Novatec D772/D772 ... at the time CXray spokes were on sale at £1 each... so they also ended up being incredibly strong as well as light.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

melchionda said:


> I weighed the RST fork. with the lockout cable and trigger the fork is 1750g.
> 
> I then cut off the cantilever studs and weighed it again. Now 1715g.
> 
> ...


Good lord, that is just too heavy. Steve, your commendation of the forks performance had me thinking about one, but that would add a solid pound to my sons bike now. I can't, for the life of me, figure out where a fork of that size is getting away with that much weight. It should weigh 1400, at most.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Craziest thing about that is if not for the price from .de it would be insanely priced. RST quoted me around 400 when I was simply asking if they in fact had models without canti studs (which they do not, it was a mistake on their site). 

I am starting to think the lot of us should get together and develop something respectable since ALL of these companies are performing self administered and viewed colonoscopies. If this is the best they can do, then they should just clock out and drink themselves stupid.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

jochribs said:


> Craziest thing about that is if not for the price from .de it would be insanely priced. RST quoted me around 400 when I was simply asking if they in fact had models without canti studs (which they do not, it was a mistake on their site).
> 
> I am starting to think the lot of us should get together and develop something respectable since ALL of these companies are performing self administered and viewed colonoscopies. If this is the best they can do, then they should just clock out and drink themselves stupid.


It could weigh 1400 (perhaps) but then it would be $600 or €600 
as with all kids bike stuff part of the weight is irreducible...a new standard CSU for the SID is $300 it's possibly slightly lighter but that's just the CSU ...for less than the whole fork. The world cup CSU is best part of $1000 to replace at RRP so I don't think a comparison with a $200 fork is really apples and apples.

That weight is with remote ... it's the exact same one as an adult one so the remote weighs the same minus a bit where you cut the cable slightly....and RS/fox weights are with our remote.

Uncut steerer is the same unless you compare to carbon SID which is the over $600... the compression adjuster bolt etc. Etc. Etc.

The Exotic carbon 24 is 200g less than the 29er though I'm personally reluctant to have aluminium dropouts especially on a kids bike.

So could it be reduced from 1670g (without remote) ? 
Certainly but at spiralling costs for small weight savings 
A disk only version would be a good start ....

However most forks like group sets etc are sold as parts of complete bikes ... that is the market. Probably even more so with kids sizes ... 
If Trek Spec Canndale Giant etc specified mass kids bikes then this would change the global market significantly.... sadly trailcraft wont be selling numbers that will make a difference. In adult bikes look at SRAM RS ... no more non boost forks for the milllions of existing bikes without boost. 
The market for replacement forks is just not even interesting for them.

Im just guessing but the reason for the canti mounts was probably so that prospective bike manufacturers could do a range with the same frame and fork ... add canti on the lower end and disc on the top end.

Despite this being available and quite decent at the price the manufacturers stick to non working steel forks of double the weight and stick on oversized cranks as it's too much trouble to get them made to the correct size.

The first port port of call has to be bike manufacturers imho...
The parts will follow the market...

Transition, trailcraft and commencal sell frames only but that is a fairly minor market ... the majority of bikes are as bought from a store with whatever the store can sell to the mass market.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Steve you are going by the stance that if the product isn't asked for by the big 4 or 5, then sell they will not. Which I think is easily argued. Honestly, if there was something else on the market, you yourself (ironically arguing in understanding of these companies apathy) would have purchased it...and you aren't an owner of a Transition, Trailcraft, Commencal, Spawn, Lil' Shredder, Cleary etc, etc, etc. Thus supporting my point that there is a market for these parts in the not so niche market. What stops them from selling in larger numbers in my opinion is that they aren't hitting the mark. They're pigs quite often, the geo isn't quite right, and or they are a pita to get your hands on. 

And this thread is actually about the weight of one of the 'big apathetics' offerings and putting a different fork onto it. How does that not show that there is, in fact, a market for decent suspension??

My stance is if they're made, they'll be purchased. If they aren't made, or if they're made in half assed fashion and in sparse numbers, well then the support for those that didn't want to make them is also there. "See look, there is no demand". Etc. 

This forum section and its various threads about this in itself is proof enough that there is demand. 

Now onto the weight of the First Air 24. It has 30mm stanchions, a mere 60mm travel, open dropouts, is air sprung, and yet weighs 1650 without lock out. Where is the weight coming from? Or better way to ask...why is it necessary? Forks in their Reveal line are coming in at that weight in the 29er size. The ones that weigh more are including a 15mm thru axle and a remote lockout. And selling for around 400. The 26er is coming in at 1500gr. Such a petite fork doesn't need to weigh what it does and/or cost a ton if doesn't. I just don't buy it. It isn't going to break the companies back to make a shorter casting for lowers, use shorter stanchions and change valving/shimstacks for lighter riders. The chassis are already there, they just need to shorten them. And that could be said about pretty much every fork company out there...take your moderately weighted, mid range fork...and shorten it. Don't reinvent something and complain about astronomical costs. It's BS and I don't buy it. 

I honestly think money is being lost at this point. Due to corporate apathy and laziness. Can't sell what you don't make, and you know damned well that you, I, and TONS of others would buy the things if they were available. Especially if the "oh, it's gotta cost this much because of this and that, and oh yeah, its gonna be a pig too" excuse wasn't pathetically used. That essentially means, "We're lazy, we just punch the clock, and we want to make the biggest profit margin possible without it getting in the way of our getting schnockered and laid at tradeshows and whatnot. We'll regurgitate the same thing, shave 3 grams and tell you it's new at the next trade show. You'll love it."


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

jochribs said:


> Steve you are going by the stance that if the product isn't asked for by the big 4 or 5, then sell they will not. Which I think is easily argued. Honestly, if there was something else on the market, you yourself (ironically arguing in understanding of these companies apathy) would have purchased it...and you aren't an owner of a Transition, Trailcraft, Commencal, Spawn, Lil' Shredder, Cleary etc, etc, etc. Thus supporting my point that there is a market for these parts in the not so niche market. What stops them from selling in larger numbers in my opinion is that they aren't hitting the mark. They're pigs quite often, the geo isn't quite right, and or they are a pita to get your hands on.


To be fair I would probably be the owner of a Trailcraft IF I didn't have to pay an extra 27% import duty then tax... and I was determined to buy a Transition Frame.... I actually pushed the order and pay button twice... once in the UK and once in Germany ... I had the SIL chase these in Poland and a good friend chase them in Germany and France.... and i phoned 20+ UK suppliers .... I also tried to get a Lil Shredder used and missed out... but all of these are Niche... perhaps Transition being the biggest name overall... but still a toddler in the sea with Giant/Trek (etc.)

I'd be interested to know how many Trailcraft Ginger sells a year.... but I think it's about enough to support a family... In the UK one manufacturer sells Stans Crest Wheels (ones mentioned by POAH) on their own copy Novatec hubs .... The company are always doing sales and a few weeks ago they were doing a Stans with CX Ray sale... so I asked well can I get the 24 with the CX Ray.... the answer i got was that they sold a pitiful few a year....

However I also see what you're saying ... I'd have bought the wheels had they not been made with straight gauge spokes.... however I was told that was the only economic way they can sell them... (which I sorta get) as they just cut and thread a set of plain gauge they buy in the 10,000 ... not 64 spokes at once... but then they missed out on one sale as they didn't offer better spokes...



> And this thread is actually about the weight of one of the 'big apathetics' offerings and putting a different fork onto it. How does that not show that there is, in fact, a market for decent suspension??


Well we would argue that it's worth it... but even on this forum I've seen people who think nothing of paying for a top of the range adult bike say there's no point spending on the kids bikes "as kids can only cycle 200m, can't climb - you know the drill... it seems weird to me that these kids who can't cycle far and can't climb are on heavy bikes that their parents swear blind isn't the cause ???



> My stance is if they're made, they'll be purchased. If they aren't made, or if they're made in half assed fashion and in sparse numbers, well then the support for those that didn't want to make them is also there. "See look, there is no demand". Etc.


Honestly I wonder at the numbers .. without the big manufacturers bulk buying
If you look at Rockshox website you can't actually buy the forks/shocks they make the most of... they are OEM only! I'm sure most bike shops sell way more bikes than they do shocks... and that's even with a few people who buy 2-3 on a single bike.. the vast majority get a bike... and ride it as it is...equally, the vast majority buy rubbish bikes... and I wouldn't be that surprised if someone told me the biggest bike seller in the UK was actually the motor-supermarket (It claims to be the "UK's largest bike shop")

Cycling | Bikes | Bikes for Sale | UK&apos;s Largest Bike Shop

This is their ENTIRE suspension line up ...
Forks & Suspension | Bike Fork | Bike Suspension | Bicycle Suspension



> This forum section and its various threads about this in itself is proof enough that there is demand.


Yep you and me .... (and a few others perhaps.. but Giant shipped 6.6m bikes in 2014 (these are its own - not including frames etc. made for others) ... I bet Trailcraft shipped considerably less than 6,600 last year....

If RST or even SRAM are looking to a market they make what the big 5 want to stick on their bikes, not what Ginger wants to stick on a trail craft.



> Now onto the weight of the First Air 24. It has 30mm stanchions, a mere 60mm travel, open dropouts, is air sprung, and yet weighs 1650 without lock out. Where is the weight coming from? Or better way to ask...why is it necessary? Forks in their Reveal line are coming in at that weight in the 29er size.


But the dropouts weigh the same, the steerer weighs the same... the extra 5" of magnesium weighs hardly anything...



> The ones that weigh more are including a 15mm thru axle and a remote lockout. And selling for around 400. The 26er is coming in at 1500gr. Such a petite fork doesn't need to weigh what it does and/or cost a ton if doesn't. I just don't buy it. It isn't going to break the companies back to make a shorter casting for lowers, use shorter stanchions and change valving/shimstacks for lighter riders. The chassis are already there, they just need to shorten them. And that could be said about pretty much every fork company out there...take your moderately weighted, mid range fork...and shorten it. Don't reinvent something and complain about astronomical costs. It's BS and I don't buy it.


Look at this in reverse ... SRAM already have the moulds and production lines etc. for 26" forks and for non-boost forks...AND.... it's not worth their while to even keep making them... the market for say 27.5 non boost has got to be way larger than 24 yet it's not worth SRAM just keeping doing what they are already set up for.... as far as SRAM are concerned if you want to replace your screwed up SRAM fork on your non Boost bike go and buy Fox....



> I honestly think money is being lost at this point. Due to corporate apathy and laziness. Can't sell what you don't make, and you know damned well that you, I, and TONS of others would buy the things if they were available. Especially if the "oh, it's gotta cost this much because of this and that, and oh yeah, its gonna be a pig too" excuse wasn't pathetically used. That essentially means, "We're lazy, we just punch the clock, and we want to make the biggest profit margin possible without it getting in the way of our getting schnockered and laid at tradeshows and whatnot. We'll regurgitate the same thing, shave 3 grams and tell you it's new at the next trade show. You'll love it."


The problem is to Trailcraft that's TONS.... they can sell a few hundred bikes and make a decent living... to Trek it's peanuts...

The UK is 65 million people.... 2015 Cannondale decided it wasn't worth selling Kids bikes here...

2016 the Norco importer decided it's not worth importing the 20 .. 2017 they stopped importing the 24 and 26 ....

2017 I can't get a transition Frame in the whole of Europe ... (population 3/4 of a BILLION) ... the Frames NEVER existed in Europe.. every single dealer told me they were never shipped and only shipped from the Far East direct on special order.

Most told me they had never sold one..... it's vapour ware... they have a few in the factory in the Far East .. if by chance anyone orders they ship one with the other bikes

Stans make the 24 Crest .... total UK yearly imports is in tens or hundreds at best... 
Currently I can't buy for love nor money... the UK company selling the wheels told me "it's WAY less than a box of spokes a year"....

Its sad... but I think the market is extremely small in terms of Trek/Marin etc......
I contacted Hope to ask them to sell me some cranks they made specially for their kids lease bikes... not a chance...."we might sell them in the future"

Look at Trek, they release a kids FS bike engineered to make a dropper impossible...
I actually met the bloke bought the last Norco 26 in the UK (when I was looking for the Transition) ... his other kid had the Trek ... my kid couldn't help showing off his dropper...

All of these were made... but the market didn't appear.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

I just typed so much, hit a different tab by accident, and lost it all. Oh well. 

Anyway, I hear what you are saying but I still don't agree with it. I think it's the big blowhard 5's excuse, but I don't think they entirely matter anymore. And I think that's an increasing reality. 

I would honestly like to see what the numbers are for the bikes we are talking about, from both they big apathetic companies and also the niche companies, lets not forget the companies that aren't the big majority but aren't niche either. 

I'm betting there's gonna be some holes shot in the 'there just isn't enough demand/the market isn't there theory.


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

So we just swapped the fork. 

The stock Suntour fork on the HotRock Pro XC weighs 1820grams.

So the RST with the lockout cable and trigger attached but with the Canti studs removed was 1715.

So the RST fork is around 100 grams lighter.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

melchionda said:


> So we just swapped the fork.
> 
> The stock Suntour fork on the HotRock Pro XC weighs 1820grams.
> 
> ...


Thats weird as when a did weigh the forks (a long time ago now) they were pretty much exactly as advertised weight, I then removed the v-brake mounting bolts which should be heavier than the remote lock out... ????

Either way though I guess if you wanted minimum weight you'd stick some carbon rigid forks on the the real question is how it's working.

We lent the XC bike to a friend over the weekend and then my kid rode it back to back with his FS ... for the trails we were riding he actually liked the fork and just complained about the lack of rear suspension...


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