# I kind of wish no one had invented droppers....



## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not "anti-dropper" or a modern luddite. I just can't quite get into the aesthetics. Nothing is as good looking as a slick carbon XC bike with a appropriately tall carbon seatpost. I love the way my carbon post eats up the small vibrations in the trail on my hardtail. I love the way it looks. I love how light it is. But....I also love the way my dropper let's me hit stuff more aggressively. I can ride straight up XC and still go to my local bike parks for some low key fun. And for stuff I used to stick my saddle in my gut for....nope, no worries. But I just can't look at my dropper. Dammit.


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

You lost me at "XC bike"...


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Weird. Bikes look cheap without droppers to me. It's a ubiquitous mtb item now, not having one looks weirdly department store.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Tis the Lycra that causes my eyes to divert o_0

A slammed seat looks dam sexy!!

'We'll all make it to the top... Some of us, might not make it to the bottom'


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## jupiter58 (Jan 13, 2016)

Seems like you are form over function gentleman at least sometimes. I can relate.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

11053 said:


> You lost me at "XC bike"...


I know.


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## Five0 (Mar 26, 2018)

Akward........


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## Gumby_rider (Apr 18, 2017)

You are mistaken. Even old bikes come with droppers. They just happened to be manually operated.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

What I will go along with is that all this tech adds weight, which in itself is crap thing. I used to be able to chuck my bike onto my shoulder to climb over a fence without thinking about it. Now my bike weighs north of thirty-pounds. Sure, it's got better suspension, better brakes a dropper etc but heck, the light bike was more fun.


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## Five0 (Mar 26, 2018)

I don’t see the purpose of this thread. You can go out and buy or build a super light XC bike.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Five0 said:


> I don't see the purpose of this thread.


You could say that about most of them?


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Joe Handlebar said:


> aesthetics


There's your problem.

Form follows function. A bike is a tool.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

Mr Pig said:


> You could say that about most of them?


Pretty much any thread other than the ones about mechanical issues, really.


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## Five0 (Mar 26, 2018)

Passion. Used to have a ton of ride reports and pics of trips to biking destinations. Now we get. “I don’t like droppers”.


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

Aesthetics without a dropper...


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Five0 said:


> Passion. Used to have a ton of ride reports and pics of trips to biking destinations. Now we get. "I don't like droppers".


Winter, give it time.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Five0 said:


> Passion. Used to have a ton of ride reports and pics of trips to biking destinations. Now we get. "I don't like droppers".


Hmm, you don't sound like someone who joined just last month.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I wish they were around 30 years a go. I would have a lot more original skin. I'm not really thinking about aesthetics at this point.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

I like all my bikes.

I like my TT, my XC, my CX, my roadie, my enduro.

All great. It's the riders who are the problem.


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## Five0 (Mar 26, 2018)

Didn’t join last month. I joined 15 years ago. But got locked out of my account and couldn’t recover my password. Emailed tech support but never got a response. 

Had to rejoin.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Here, yes. Looks okay to me.


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## jim c (Dec 5, 2014)

The changing aesthetics has me thinking my bike looks strange when the post is all the way up. I'm now use to enjoying how the bike handles when the saddle is low, so I now enjoy it looking like a 'jump bike' instead of one of those saddle up the rear types. That is a change for me.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Just just ride without a dropper like I do. No issues. Looks? I just go with what works.


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

Five0 said:


> Didn't join last month. I joined 15 years ago. But got locked out of my account and couldn't recover my password. Emailed tech support but never got a response.
> 
> Had to rejoin.


Whatever noob!!!!


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

jim c said:


> The changing aesthetics has me thinking my bike looks strange when the post is all the way up. I'm now use to enjoying how the bike handles when the saddle is low, so I now enjoy it looking like a 'jump bike' instead of one of those saddle up the rear types. That is a change for me.


I like the looks of my bikes better with a dropper. Got very long legs, so even with XL frames I've got so much post showing they look like clown bikes with the seat at fulll height. Not so noticable when I'm on the bike pedaling, but the bike just sitting there looks out of proportion with the seat so high.


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## Dropper (Mar 1, 2018)

its called bipolar disorder go get some help man...


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I kinda wish I won the lottery or looked like Tom Selleck (not currently, the Magnum PI years)


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## jupiter58 (Jan 13, 2016)

Droppers are great, one of my best upgrades, much more confident on the downhills especially on my 29er. I use the old tried and true gravity droppers without a remote.....I am not racing so no issues there. lower center of gravity and being able to dab a foot or pivot much more easily.


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## Sideknob (Jul 14, 2005)

I'd happily trade the dropper on my Stumpy for a bottom bracket that's about 10mm higher... I'm fed up with whacking pedals.

I rode an Epic the other day that didn't have a dropper. I didn't really miss the dropper on that circuit....and I didn't whack pedals once.

Horses for courses.


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## justwan naride (Oct 13, 2008)

When my dropper was sent back for warranty I realised I've forgoten how to ride without one. I use it when descending, jumping, cornering, stopping at traffic lights... all the time basically.

I agree on the aesthetics, rigid posts look cleaner, with one exception. A long stroke dropper with the colar slammed against the seat tube is almost as clean looking as a rigid post. With the added benefit of a slammed saddle when needed. 

The other thing I noticed while waiting for my dropper to return from service was that the weight difference is noticable. The rear of my bike felt lighter with the rigid post, the back wheel easier to get off the ground. 

That said, there's no way I'm going back to a rigid post by choice.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

I've been riding single track for over 20 years and my first dropper came with the new Kona. I know...took awhile but I was always having so much fun riding I never gave a dropper much thought until now. After all these years I'm so used to riding tech sections with the seat where it sits I've had to force myself to use it. I like it but for the typical New England trails I ride the tech sections come and go very quickly. I would constantly be doing the 'up/down' thing for much of the trail so I only drop it on longer tech sections. 

Being 6'4" with 36" inseam I found one of the biggest benefits is the opposite of what most would think regarding a dropper. Prior to droppers, my normal seat position was down a bit as a compromise and lived with never having full leg extension when climbing. Now I can FULLY extend my seat in climbing sections when needed which is awesome.

As for aesthetics...I'm only concerned with function and what makes the bike better. Not worried about what it looks like. If you ride hard and fast enough nobody's gonna see it anyways!


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Sideknob said:


> I'd happily trade the dropper on my Stumpy for a bottom bracket that's about 10mm higher... I'm fed up with whacking pedals.
> 
> I rode an Epic the other day that didn't have a dropper. I didn't really miss the dropper on that circuit....and I didn't whack pedals once.
> 
> Horses for courses.


Could it be a rider issue? My XC "training" bike is my Enduro. Okay, when I say XC training bike what I mean is I only ever ride my XC bike during races, everything else is less XC bike friendly. But I rarely pedal strike on my E29. My Stumpy riding friend never complains either (he just got an Epic to race as well).

I did just race an Epic, and before that rode it on an enduro'ish trail. It is a pretty good bike without a dropper I will say.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

Joe Handlebar said:


> Nothing is as good looking as a slick carbon XC bike with a appropriately tall carbon seatpost.


this statement is factually incorrect.

but it sounds like you're one of those guys that's more worried about if your bike matches your purse than how it rides.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> What I will go along with is that all this tech adds weight, which in itself is crap thing. I used to be able to chuck my bike onto my shoulder to climb over a fence without thinking about it. Now my bike weighs north of thirty-pounds. Sure, it's got better suspension, better brakes a dropper etc but heck, the light bike was more fun.


Zowie in the 26" forum is trying to convince me and some others to go rigid, save lbs and keep it simple. It's a nice idea on paper. But a lot of rigid forks are still 2.5 to 3.0 lbs and you can get an air fork at 4.0 lbs, so I really don't see the point. Pig, what 'better' suspension is weighing so much on your current bike? You mean full suspension?

As for this thread, I agree it's filler, it doesn't contribute much besides bickering and confusion.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

richj8990 said:


> Pig, what 'better' suspension is weighing so much on your current bike? You mean full suspension?


Yes. Bike manufacturers can't make money by selling us nothing. The list of must-have bike features, parts and accessories gets ever longer as they strive to get us to want more and more stuff. So our bikes get more complex, heavier, bigger but do they get more fun? Sure, they can do more but it's not the same thing. It's not the same thing at all.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> Yes. Bike manufacturers can't make money by selling us nothing. The list of must-have bike features, parts and accessories gets ever longer as they strive to get us to want more and more stuff. So our bikes get more complex, heavier, bigger but do they get more fun? Sure, they can do more but it's not the same thing. It's not the same thing at all.


This is why I'm trying to differentiate my 27.5 into a more downhill/rock rollover bike and the 26 into a more fun twisty trail bike so I can still have a smaller bike that hopefully handles better. If something complex really adds performance and is worth its price, great, otherwise I don't bother. As in I'm not going to spend $500 on a part just to save 3 ounces of weight.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

richj8990 said:


> If something complex really adds performance and is worth its price, great...


Yes, but do we need the performance?

My full-sus bike is faster over rough down hill than my hard-tail. The better suspension gives you better confidence and control, no question. The performance of the bike is better. In a race, it would be faster, it's more comfortable, you get the idea.

Thing is, the hard-tail is more fun! You feel more connected, it feels more alive and it _feels_ faster. It's isn't actually faster but you get a greater sensation of speed.

So is the bike that performs better _really _the better bike?


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

One Pivot said:


> Weird. Bikes look cheap without droppers to me. It's a ubiquitous mtb item now, not having one looks weirdly department store.


At right er' Iz how I see It


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

Mr Pig said:


> Yes, but do we need the performance?
> 
> My full-sus bike is faster over rough down hill than my hard-tail. The better suspension gives you better confidence and control, no question. The performance of the bike is better. In a race, it would be faster, it's more comfortable, you get the idea.
> 
> ...


I'm an old fart who rides like I want to survive getting back down the mountain so I can ride again.

I ride a Hard Tail after having full suspension, for the reasons you mentioned, "the hard-tail is more fun! You feel more connected, it feels more alive"
I consider my dropper a safety device.

We, most of us ride as fast as we can and would with or without a dropper, 
follow me ?

The three key things that I am addicted to that allow me to ride a great Hard Tail:

Slack geo,
Plus tires,
The Dropper,

Without ALL three of those I'd have to ride a Full Squish again...


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## jupiter58 (Jan 13, 2016)

well said....my man.


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## jupiter58 (Jan 13, 2016)

Joules said:


> this statement is factually incorrect.
> 
> but it sounds like you're one of those guys that's more worried about if your bike matches your purse than how it rides.


 And please do not leave out the matching skirt and panty hose


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## jupiter58 (Jan 13, 2016)

Dropper etc, yep.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> Yes, but do we need the performance?
> 
> My full-sus bike is faster over rough down hill than my hard-tail. The better suspension gives you better confidence and control, no question. The performance of the bike is better. In a race, it would be faster, it's more comfortable, you get the idea.
> 
> ...


Following that logic wouldn't a rigid bike be even more fun then? Smaller wheels, skinnier tires, and sketchy brakes could also add to the fun!


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

At this point, there is not enough adjustment for me, and I want me seat closer to the frame in the down position than any dropper allows. They are way to expensive for what they offer. I'm never in that big a hurry that i won't stop and lower my seat, or go back and hit another section with my seat down. Seems like it's a tech part for people who are in a bit too much of a hurry on rides through the woods. When they are integrated, and not hundreds of bucks....I'll have one.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

sturge said:


> I've been riding single track for over 20 years and my first dropper came with the new Kona. I know...took awhile but I was always having so much fun riding I never gave a dropper much thought until now. After all these years I'm so used to riding tech sections with the seat where it sits I've had to force myself to use it. I like it but for the typical New England trails I ride the tech sections come and go very quickly. I would constantly be doing the 'up/down' thing for much of the trail so I only drop it on longer tech sections.
> 
> Being 6'4" with 36" inseam I found one of the biggest benefits is the opposite of what most would think regarding a dropper. Prior to droppers, my normal seat position was down a bit as a compromise and lived with never having full leg extension when climbing. Now I can FULLY extend my seat in climbing sections when needed which is awesome.
> 
> As for aesthetics...I'm only concerned with function and what makes the bike better. Not worried about what it looks like. If you ride hard and fast enough nobody's gonna see it anyways!


Agree on the seat height point. There is a learning curve we all go through adapting from rigid to dropper. First is raising the seat to get full exstention. This is especially true for guys that don't road bike and have trained their muscles etc for a lower mtb saddle height. I have friends that have had droppers for over a season and they are still working on raising their saddle. Next is gripping your seat with your thighs or knees on downhill. Soon enough most will transition away from this as well in favor of getting the seat completely out of the way. If I'm riding "aggressively" I'll drop my seat for a single root or rock. Dropping my saddle has necome second nature like braking or shifting.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Osco said:


> I ride a Hard Tail after having full suspension, for the reasons you mentioned, "the hard-tail is more fun! You feel more connected, it feels more alive"
> I consider my dropper a safety device.


I think I would rather ride a hard-tail with a dropper than a full-sus without.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

What's a dropper post again?


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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

Joe Handlebar said:


> Don't get me wrong here, I'm not "anti-dropper" or a modern luddite. I just can't quite get into the aesthetics. Nothing is as good looking as a slick carbon XC bike with a appropriately tall carbon seatpost.


Huh. To each their own and all, but I much prefer the tapered look of a dropper, or even a thinner post with a shim. Guess that's a good thing, since I'd still use a dropper even if I thought it was fugly!


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

Crankout said:


> What's a dropper post again?


it's just called a seatpost now. Dropper used to be used to differentiate from fixed-length posts, which no one makes anymore because they are worthless. Kind of like inner tubes, cantilever brakes, front derailleurs and quick release wheels.


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## Skorp (Jul 20, 2009)

Just get a dropper/frame combo that give you the correct saddle height when slammed to the bottom.


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

Mr Pig said:


> I think I would rather ride a hard-tail with a dropper than a full-sus without.


Absolutely.

And I rode more than enough steep sketchy stuff with my seat high to know that it's a lot more fun with it down.


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

Crankout said:


> What's a dropper post again?


Something to argue about on MTBR ad nauseam.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

Who needs a dropper anyway:


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

Five0 said:


> Passion. Used to have a ton of ride reports and pics of trips to biking destinations. Now we get. "I don't like droppers".


It was a moment of passion. It's a mitigating factor in my defense.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

Joules said:


> this statement is factually incorrect.
> 
> but it sounds like you're one of those guys that's more worried about if your bike matches your purse than how it rides.


You'd be wrong. And, an opinion is not a fact....an opinion can never be factually correct, or incorrect. But then, if you had read and digested my post, you'd know that.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

If anything, I need my dropper MORE on my XC hardtail because the trails I actually use it on are more varied in pitch. The trails I ride my enduro bike on are usually straight grinding up a 2000' climb in 5 miles or less, and there's rarely a break from the climbing until the top.

I never understood XC guys who kept they seats glued to their taint. I actuallys used to stop and lower my seat on longer descents in XC races, and I'd blow past all the guys with their seats up. It's funny how XCers are still slow to adopt the dropper when it's such a sure way to shave time. Maybe XC is still painfully un-technical like it was when I competed?


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

Joules said:


> it's just called a seatpost now. Dropper used to be used to differentiate from fixed-length posts, which no one makes anymore because they are worthless. Kind of like inner tubes, cantilever brakes, front derailleurs and quick release wheels.


Sez teh king of koolaid😂


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

cookieMonster said:


> If anything, I need my dropper MORE on my XC hardtail because the trails I actually use it on are more varied in pitch. The trails I ride my enduro bike on are usually straight grinding up a 2000' climb in 5 miles or less, and there's rarely a break from the climbing until the top.
> 
> I never understood XC guys who kept they seats glued to their taint. I actuallys used to stop and lower my seat on longer descents in XC races, and I'd blow past all the guys with their seats up. It's funny how XCers are still slow to adopt the dropper when it's such a sure way to shave time. Maybe XC is still painfully un-technical like it was when I competed?


Well I certainly can't speak for the local racers, but watching Stellenbosch, many of those riders were sporting droppers. Although...if I'm recalling correctly, Sam Gaze and Nino Schurter....weren't. o_0 Functionally, I love my dropper, and I use it. But yeah, XC is still not super technical.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I kind of wish I hadn't started reading this thread…


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

11053 said:


> You lost me at "XC bike"...


This. This guy sounds like he really needs a road bike or something. It's the 21st Century. I can't imagine deliberately going down a mountain with my saddle at roadie height.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

twodownzero said:


> This. This guy sounds like he really needs a road bike or something. It's the 21st Century. I can't imagine deliberately going down a mountain with my saddle at roadie height.


SO you read the OP's post then, the one where he said he didn't like the way droppers LOOKED not that he didn't enjoy using one...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

twodownzero said:


> It's the 21st Century. I can't imagine deliberately going down a mountain with my saddle at roadie height.


It's actually not so bad, I even manage to have fun.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

kpdemello said:


> Who needs a dropper anyway:


Old school riding...body English is all one needs.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

cookieMonster said:


> I never understood XC guys who kept they seats glued to their taint. I actuallys used to stop and lower my seat on longer descents in XC races, and I'd blow past all the guys with their seats up. It's funny how XCers are still slow to adopt the dropper when it's such a sure way to shave time. Maybe XC is still painfully un-technical like it was when I competed?


Because making up a few seconds on the DH in an XC race doesn't really make a difference. You spend so little time there compared to how much time you spend on flats and a climb in a race, even when the DH is long. Seeing (and experiencing) how other cat 1 riders do the downhills, even without droppers, it's simply not that much of a difference. These guys are skilled and while using the dropper can make the descent FUNNER, SAFER and EASIER, it doesn't really make it noticeably faster, even on rough XC stuff. I'm running one on my fat-bike right now at the end of winter (well, it's over now except for crust-riding that is too warm currently) and my experience was just that. It's fun, cool to be able to drop the seat, but I'm not markedly faster with it. The XC guys are pushing their rigs to the limit downhill and everywhere else. Is there a benefit to dropping? Sure, but just like some of the other things we use, the benefit isn't going to apply all the time in every situation, even when being as specific as "long downhills". Just thinking that "downhill" means that you are faster on a dropper and all-mountain bike is a mistake IME.

In my experience, XC is not painfully non-technical, but that's because the places I've lived are generally mountainous. I wouldn't expect the midwest or some other locations to be very technical, no matter what kind of riding you are doing. Again, it's a mistake to assume that the XC races are non-technical in CO, AZ, NM, UT, etc...

I run a dropper and for the local XC series, I was about 50/50 as far as whether I'd use it in the race. Some of the races were not suited for it with lots of short ups and downs where you really never get going that fast down, some of them had some longer steep downhills whee it made sense to leverage the advantage. It was not consistent though.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

cookieMonster said:


> I never understood XC guys who kept they seats glued to their taint. I actuallys used to stop and lower my seat on longer descents in XC races, and I'd blow past all the guys with their seats up. It's funny how XCers are still slow to adopt the dropper when it's such a sure way to shave time. Maybe XC is still painfully un-technical like it was when I competed?


Since it was painfully un-technical when you competed I don't think you were blowing by people on downhills because you stopped to lower your seat, you were just passing slower people that you would have passed anyway.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

chazpat said:


> I kind of wish I hadn't started reading this thread&#8230;


LOL. It's not too hard to imagine what gizmos they will need to sell soon to keep profits up. Future high-end bikes will come with a built-in smart phone that automatically adjusts the seat, autobrakes for you, a laser light to illuminate the perfect trail line in front of you, automatic electric shifting, it will automatically adjust your suspension, etc. If it has e-power you don't even need to pedal. You just sit on the bike, turn the handlebars once in a while, and pretend to ride. You are basically on a two-wheeled expensive off-road vehicle, like a $200,000 version of a Cadillac Escalade. The bike will be way more advanced than the most expensive motorcycle. This is why singlespeeds are a popular knee-jerk reaction to all of the new tech that swamps expensive bikes.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

richj8990 said:


> LOL. It's not too hard to imagine what gizmos they will need to sell soon to keep profits up.


I think it's the other way around, people love tech and people demand tech. Gravity Dropper started because a rider wanted a better solution to a height right and made his own. When people started showing interest big companies saw the potential and jumped in the game, so to me it almost seems more of a grassroots movement. Nobody has to buy one, I haven't yet.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

What's old is new again...

Powerpost Seatpost Seatpost user reviews : 4.3 out of 5 - 7 reviews - mtbr.com


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

Droppers are for people who can't ride a bike properly anyway. Droppers are like the bumpers at the bowling alley.


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## TheBaldBlur (Jan 13, 2014)

Don't like the way dropper posts _look_...? :skep:

OK, well I can't see the dropper post with my feet on the pedals and the grips in my hands. Maybe spend more time in that position? Just a thought....


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Need? No. 
But Man, riding bikes is mo' funner with the seat down.

I rode for several years with a rigid post on my HT after selling my dropper equipped FS. I didn't ever walk anything because my post was in the way. Body position was sub-optimal for sure, but I managed.
Having made the jump, I think a dropper is even more awesome on a HT (and SS) than FS. Obviously a big help for the really steep stuff, but I was surprised how much easier manuals and hops were for things like water bars and logs. Places where there is no rear suspension to soak up hits, so it's all in the legs.

Surprisingly, I think it's awesome on an SS as well, where climbing sometimes requires exaggerated mashing, and so much standing, that a low seat doesn't much matter. 
I can see the ambivalence for an avg XC race, but for all-around riding on an XC bike, hell yes. I'd rate it up there with Tubeless in the 'never going back to the old way' category.


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## jupiter58 (Jan 13, 2016)

Joe Handlebar said:


> Well I certainly can't speak for the local racers, but watching Stellenbosch, many of those riders were sporting droppers. Although...if I'm recalling correctly, Sam Gaze and Nino Schurter....weren't. o_0 Functionally, I love my dropper, and I use it. But yeah, XC is still not super technical.


 Interesting that you posted this. Yesterday I looked at Ninos bike, no dropper, why not? the current XC courses look rather difficult to me. Curious to know if any of the XC pros are using droppers, apparently so. Good to know since I like mine so much. I am not a young rider at 60, I really need my dropper off road and I honestly think I is one of the best upgrades since I started riding about 18 years ago. They look ugly? I sure do not care, and do I have an ugly dropper the Gravity Dropper Turbo


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## jupiter58 (Jan 13, 2016)

I would want a dropper on this course? looks like a difficult section to me, I remember when the XC courses looked a lot more tame than this.Should one look to the pros for clear concise information on bike setup? I do admire that he can excel without a dropper, how about with one.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

jupiter58 said:


> I would want a dropper on this course? looks like a difficult section to me, I remember when the XC courses looked a lot more tame than this.Should one look to the pros for clear concise information on bike setup? I do admire that he can excel without a dropper, how about with one.
> View attachment 1192770


I'm wondering how that course really looked. It appears to have been taken with a lens which is altering the true dimensions. Kind of looks like a fisheye lens? Or something close. That's definitely not a "natural" view.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Joe Handlebar said:


> That's definitely not a "natural" view.


No but some of those World Cup courses are crazy steep, if you or I rode it that's how we'd describe it to our friends


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## jupiter58 (Jan 13, 2016)

many other pics on the internet of challenging modern xc courses.someday i would like to attend a uci event.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

^ Aw man, should be a penalty for getting off your bike, this ain't cyclocross!


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

J.B. Weld said:


> No but some of those World Cup courses are crazy steep, if you or I rode it that's how we'd describe it to our friends


....after we healed up from the crash.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

mik_git said:


> SO you read the OP's post then, the one where he said he didn't like the way droppers LOOKED not that he didn't enjoy using one...


I read it. I kinda agree. I almost bought a 150mm dropper because it'd put my saddle at almost exactly the right height. Unfortunately it would have been ~4mm too long and I didn't want to risk it.


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## acfsportsfan (Aug 13, 2004)

You guys are forgetting the most important reason for a dropper, looking cool sitting on your bike with your feet planted on the ground waiting for your buddies at the trail head. That's why I got the biggest dropper (175mm) that would fit my frame.:thumbsup:


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

One Pivot said:


> Weird. Bikes look cheap without droppers to me. It's a ubiquitous mtb item now, not having one looks weirdly department store.


Agree.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

acfsportsfan said:


> You guys are forgetting the most important reason for a dropper, looking cool sitting on your bike with your feet planted on the ground waiting for your buddies at the trail head.


No, it's so that you can stop on a slope and put your foot down without falling arse over tit down the hill in front of a bunch of hikers who try not to laugh while politely asking if you are ok.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

I don't know, the one XC race I ever won, I won simply because I was a better descender than the others in the top 5. That course was probably an anomaly though-- it was one huge loop. Non-stop climbing to the top and then a long descent all the way to the finish line. I practically killed myself to hang with the top 5; stopped to lower my seat at the top, and then said goodbye.

I agree with you though that XC races are normally won on the climbs, since that is how you spend perhaps 90% of your race time. However, in a long course, those seconds shaved add up. How many seconds does that extra pound of seatpost add to your time?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Mr Pig said:


> No, it's so that you can stop on a slope and put your foot down without falling arse over tit down the hill in front of a bunch of hikers who try not to laugh while politely asking if you are ok.


But that's how I meet chicks!


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2018)

Mr Pig said:


> You could say that about most of them?


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mr Pig again.


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> No, it's so that you can stop on a slope and put your foot down without falling arse over tit down the hill in front of a bunch of hikers who try not to laugh while politely asking if you are ok.


Or, you know, you could just lean the bike to one side a tad and put a foot down with a rigid post at full height. What a concept!!!


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

HacksawReynolds said:


> Or, you know, you could just lean the bike to one side a tad and put a foot down with a rigid post at full height. What a concept!!!


I'm not conveying a concept but something I actually did.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

cookieMonster said:


> How many seconds does that extra pound of seatpost add to your time?


Speed on the flats and uphills is about weight to watts ratio and the faster you go, wind resistance starts to come into it too. If you can shave a pound with no significant disadvantage, it will make you faster. 1 second every few minutes is a huge advantage. For most of the highly skilled XCers, they can descend hardtails or XC bikes with the seat up just as fast as guys riding with much more travel and droppers.


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## tealy (Mar 7, 2013)

okay


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## askibum02 (Jul 7, 2005)

Untitled by Brett Valentine, on Flickr
Untitled by Brett Valentine, on Flickr

It definitely looks cooler slammed. I need to buy a 170mm post for the ultimate cool factor. It's only money, right?:skep:


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

chazpat said:


> ^ Aw man, should be a penalty for getting off your bike, this ain't cyclocross!


There Iz,
You get passed by the guys who got the balls and the skills to ride what you cant.

What I don't get is why they call those courses XC, they should be re-named,
XTRA-C.


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

Ya know, 
I think I'll start a thread and call it,,,

I kind of wish no one had invented Cross bikes,
or maybe, Slack bikes,
or Plus tires,,yeah that's the ticket ! ~


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Osco said:


> Ya know,
> I think I'll start a thread and call it,,,
> 
> I kind of wish no one had invented Cross bikes,
> ...


I rode my slack dropperized plus bike today.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

tealy said:


> I'd only get one if I lived closer to trails with jumps, downhill trails, or big mountains.


Sounds like it's time to move.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

I wish they'd never invented them either...

Then I wouldn't know I need one to ride how I wanna ride o_0

i.e. of late I've been riding fixed... but, it's a f-ing pain in the @r$e - when you forget to raise it for a climb or forget to drop it for a descent...

Which, when you're deprived of oxygen is quite easy I found on last nights ride.

Trails were shortish runs, w/ a lot of up, then down. I forgot one of each & hated every second of those 2 sections/runs (especially the climb one).

My conclusion is: a dropper allows you to be an XC racer on the climbs & a DH'er on the downs. If so inclined you can middle it & be a commuter.

All at the press of a button!

New 150mm dropper installed in a weeks time. :woohoo:

'We'll all make it to the top... Some of us, might not make it to the bottom'


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

Osco said:


> Ya know,
> I think I'll start a thread and call it,,,
> 
> I kind of wish no one had invented Cross bikes,
> ...


Swing and a miss.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

11053 said:


> You lost me at "XC bike"...


I did not even make it that far. He lost me at "aesthetics".


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## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

Here's a 19lb XC bike with a dropper for the threadstarter :thumbsup:


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I broke down, and I have a dropper on the way. I hope its as good as it sounds.

Brand X Ascend II 

Any pro-tips?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

jcd46 said:


> I broke down, and I have a dropper on the way. I hope its as good as it sounds.
> 
> Brand X Ascend II
> 
> Any pro-tips?





jcd46 said:


> In Tijeras Creek.


You may need another way to carry your tools, etc.

I believe that is the same as my Cascade. I was banging my head on the wall trying to install it, then finally figured out that they had sent me the wrong cable kit. With the correct cable kit, easy to install.

You will enjoy it!


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

chazpat said:


> You may need another way to carry your tools, etc.
> 
> I believe that is the same as my Cascade. I was banging my head on the wall trying to install it, then finally figured out that they had sent me the wrong cable kit. With the correct cable kit, easy to install.
> 
> You will enjoy it!


Thanks, yep! Thought of that, tools just have to go back to my pack. 

Should about a week before it gets here.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

jcd46 said:


> I broke down, and I have a dropper on the way. I hope its as good as it sounds.
> 
> Brand X Ascend II
> 
> Any pro-tips?


JCD tell me how it goes.

I'm looking at a DNM one for $149. I didn't even bother looking at dropper posts before this particular post, if that makes sense, but one of my bikes feels top-heavy more than the other so I think this would be good.

NOOB QUESTION: Hopefully not getting off-topic but how much do you lower the seat? I manually lowered the seat about 3-4 inches on a 3 min downhill run Friday evening, just as a test, and yes while I did finish faster to the bottom, maybe 5-7% faster, it was a very odd feeling. It's a lot more stamina draining than either sitting down normally or standing up on the pedals. For some reason I wanted to sit down, but since the seat was so low I'm hanging off the back of the seat and felt like a back-seat driver. No crashes or anything and yes, faster downhill but is that the normal side-effect above of lowering the seat or am I doing something wrong? It just feels like a lot of getting used to. I could pedal OK but I really don't want to fall off the back of the seat into the rear tire either lol.

Do you guys lower the seat a couple inches, or all the way down to the frame?

What percentage of time do you sit on the seat this way compared with standing up on the pedals?


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

^^I will, good question, I'm used to never lowering my seat. I might do that this week for the "feel".


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Saddle up for pedalling, down a bit for chundery pedalling, all the way down for everything else is what I do. It is going to depend on your trails and it will take some practice to get the most out of it.


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## notso (Jan 22, 2015)

richj8990 said:


> Do you guys lower the seat a couple inches, or all the way down to the frame?
> 
> What percentage of time do you sit on the seat this way compared with standing up on the pedals?


Well I only have a 125mm drop post, so I can't take the seat "all the way down to the frame. With that said, the amount I drop it really depends on what I'm doing. Maybe a couple inches for smooth cornering or chunky pedaling. All the way down for rougher descents. Keep in mind that the whole point of a dropper is that you can raise and lower the seat quickly and easily. On a long descent, if the trail smooth's out enough that sitting is a viable option, you can raise the seat and sit down for a few seconds and then drop it again before the next rough spot.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

I did a ride over the weekend on my XC hardtail (29"). It has the same seatpost dia as my enduro bike, and I sometimes install my dropper in the hardtail.

Well, I didn't have time to do that, and was really kicking myself on that ride. It was very technical XC, with lots of ups and downs with very rough limestone staircases both up and down. Not ultra high-speed but some of that mixed with slow, pretty techy trialsy conditions. I rode a lot of it with the seat all the way up and it was dangerous. After getting sick of that I finally settled on about 2" lower than climbing height, but then I got annoyed every time I hit another climb.

If I'd had my Fox DOSS installed I would have likely changed the position 40-50 times on that ride and had much more fun (not that I didn't have a blast -- it was the first time my tires have touched dirt since last October).

I find that once you get used to a dropper, it's hard to go without it. Dumb, even. And to anyone who says they can go just as fast with their seat all the way up, I say they need to start riding more difficult terrain.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

notso said:


> Well I only have a 125mm drop post, so I can't take the seat "all the way down to the frame. With that said, the amount I drop it really depends on what I'm doing. Maybe a couple inches for smooth cornering or chunky pedaling. All the way down for rougher descents. Keep in mind that the whole point of a dropper is that you can raise and lower the seat quickly and easily. On a long descent, if the trail smooth's out enough that sitting is a viable option, you can raise the seat and sit down for a few seconds and then drop it again before the next rough spot.


HMMM...

Silly me, I thought they were for lowering the center of gravity while sitting, not to help downhill technique while crouching over the dropped seat. Standing up on the pedals is easy; crouching for prolonged periods takes a lot of stamina. I think I need to work on my downhill skills a lot more before buying one, or is it the other way around? Confused now. A couple of funny snippets on droppers from a different thread:

Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
This is my singular problem with droppers, or more accurately with some of the people who use them. You guys are almost as evangelical as fat bikers. "Bro!...where's your dropper? How can you ride without a dropper!?!? You gotta get a dropper bro!!!" Thanks, but no thanks Mr. Gadget.

Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
...We are lucky enough to have trails with serious features around every other corner....

WestCoastHucker
that's just silly talk. there have been sick ass trails since long before the dropper came around. we rode the trails fine then, we will continue to ride them just as well...

i don't hate on them, sure it's likely a nice convenience every now and again, i just don't think i need it. i've ridden on them and have always leave the seat in one place anyway. to pretend like it's a necessity and that it make your ride "properly" comes off a little too much kool-aid sounding to me...


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

^ you're really going to find (if you haven't noticed already) that there are two camps, the "I can't ride without one' and "they are usefull but not necessary", I think the issue stems from for each camp, what sort of trails are they actually riding. You'd think the former on rowdy steep tech trails and the latter on easier XC trials... but that doesn't have to be the case I'm sure there is crossover.

It's a bit like the clipless vs flats thing.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

richj8990 said:


> HMMM...
> 
> Silly me, I thought they were for lowering the center of gravity while sitting, not to help downhill technique while crouching over the dropped seat. Standing up on the pedals is easy; crouching for prolonged periods takes a lot of stamina. I think I need to work on my downhill skills a lot more before buying one, or is it the other way around? Confused now. A couple of funny snippets on droppers from a different thread:


It's for getting the seat out of the way, you pick your position for whatever you're doing, standing, crouching... for descending, jumping cornering, whatever, then you can let the bike move around underneath you better, you dont have to get back behind the seat for decending steep stuff, or have the seat eject you when you hit something.


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

It's not about the seatpost.....


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## HELLBELLY (Jan 16, 2004)

richj8990 said:


> LOL. It's not too hard to imagine what gizmos they will need to sell soon to keep profits up. Future high-end bikes will come with a built-in smart phone that automatically adjusts the seat, autobrakes for you, a laser light to illuminate the perfect trail line in front of you, automatic electric shifting, it will automatically adjust your suspension, etc. If it has e-power you don't even need to pedal. You just sit on the bike, turn the handlebars once in a while, and pretend to ride. You are basically on a two-wheeled expensive off-road vehicle, like a $200,000 version of a Cadillac Escalade. The bike will be way more advanced than the most expensive motorcycle. This is why singlespeeds are a popular knee-jerk reaction to all of the new tech that swamps expensive bikes.


Good Lawd, I've heard every dropper argument/excuse out there since I began using them in '05. There is not much of anything about profit for inventors in the bike realm. You'd be much better off putting your money into stocks, Bitcoin or pretty much anything else to make money, hence the long used cliches... "If you want to make a million in cycling, start with two million" or "What do you call a professional bike racer? Homeless." :madman:

Moving on, IMHO droppers are as important and useful in the world of mountain innovation as disc brakes. They are intuitive to use, can/should be used all the time (not just for big DH, mountain, DJ rides or other such bs excuses), add negligible (non-rotational) weight, are simple to set up and maintain and most importantly make riding much more fun. Do you need one? No and no one does, but I ride for fun number one and droppers up the fun factor big time. How's that for passion?  Ride whatever turns you on.

:thumbsup: :devil:


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

mik_git said:


> It's a bit like the clipless vs flats thing.


Yup. Same weird internet equipment evangelists too, the ones that like to say 'if you don't buy what I bought , you can't really ride your bike'. They love to project their own limitations onto everyone else. "If you're riding clipless pedals/a non-dropper post you must only be riding sidewalks". Gear weenies are funny.


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## Rockadile (Jun 27, 2005)

I've read so many people postulating about the pros of droppers that I decided to give one a try on my hard tail. I just went for my first ride with it and I found it a bit awkward with the seat slammed. This is probably because I have always ridden with my post in a higher position as a compromise. I am gonna give it some more time to see if it is worth it to me.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

droppers do pay off once you get used to the timing

never thought I needed one, but once I had a spare one sitting around
(go figure someone sent me a dropper I was not using) stuck it in the fatbike
and first ride from elevated path onto frozen pond, dropped it and ---wow---
felt like 1000 times more control than my usual '1cm below roadie height' saddle

though the downside is not raising it fast enough. legs stinkbugged hard trying to pedal when I needed saddle back in place. so, gotta get some muscle memory on the trigger finger for effective dropper use


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

When the seat is down, do you just lower your center of gravity, and I don't have to be "behind" the saddle anymore? That's the one thing I struggle with is body position, and I'm wondering how the dropper will affect that. 

However, in some of the pictures posted around, I see some of you with your butt behind the saddle and the saddle is dropped.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

slapheadmofo said:


> Yup. Same weird internet equipment evangelists too, the ones that like to say 'if you don't buy what I bought , you can't really ride your bike'. They love to project their own limitations onto everyone else. "If you're riding clipless pedals/a non-dropper post you must only be riding sidewalks". Gear weenies are funny.


There are occasional "internet equipment evangelists" but the vast majority pretty much just say if they like something or not, in this case a dropper. I haven't scrutinized it so maybe I missed something but I haven't noticed anyone projecting their own limitations on this thread, just passing along experiences and opinions.


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## jim c (Dec 5, 2014)

jcd46 said:


> When the seat is down, do you just lower your center of gravity, and I don't have to be "behind" the saddle anymore? That's the one thing I struggle with is body position, and I'm wondering how the dropper will affect that.
> 
> However, in some of the pictures posted around, I see some of you with your butt behind the saddle and the saddle is dropped.


Yes sometimes you go all-the-way back because it's so steep and you feel better back there. If the saddle is down you have a LOT more room to move the bike around, this also helps with flat trail twisty parts like S-turns where you move the bars side to side, as much as it does with the drops. With jumps it (lower saddle) helped me get confident to hit them fast enough and get as much air as I can. One big plus is you can set the saddle height for max pedaling efficiency instead of the compromise position we use on the trai. Really helps on smooth climbs. 
It is odd to not have your seat where its allways been and you have to get use to that too. Sometimes I'll go to sit down while it's low and almost fall off the bike.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

jim c said:


> Yes sometimes you go all-the-way back because it's so steep and you feel better back there. If the saddle is down you have a LOT more room to move the bike around, this also helps with flat trail twisty parts like S-turns where you move the bars side to side, as much as it does with the drops. With jumps it (lower saddle) helped me get confident to hit them fast enough and get as much air as I can. One big plus is you can set the saddle height for max pedaling efficiency instead of the compromise position we use on the trai. Really helps on smooth climbs.
> It is odd to not have your seat where its allways been and you have to get use to that too. Sometimes I'll go to sit down while it's low and almost fall off the bike.


Thanks! LOL exactly what I was thinking!


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

Yawn....


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## Seaview (Apr 30, 2006)

Replaced my KS Lev with a normal seat tube. Simple and light less levers and other problems relative at droppers.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> There are occasional "internet equipment evangelists" but the vast majority pretty much just say if they like something or not, in this case a dropper. I haven't scrutinized it so maybe I missed something but I haven't noticed anyone projecting their own limitations on this thread, just passing along experiences and opinions.


Hasn't been a dropper thread yet that I've seen where at least a couple people didn't opine that anyone who doesn't use them must be just riding easy terrain. This thread is no exception; even got one person saying anyone choosing not to use one is dumb. Go back and take a peak...happens every time. Gear dorks can't just be happy saying 'I really like this part'; seems they have to take a sideways dig at anyone who doesn't fall all over themselves to worship at the alter of (insert tech here).


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

slapheadmofo said:


> Hasn't been a dropper thread yet that I've seen where at least a couple people opine that anyone who doesn't use them must be just riding easy terrain. This thread is no exception; even got one person saying anyone choosing not to use one is dumb. Go back and take a peak...happens every time. Gear dorks can't just be happy saying 'I really like this part'; seems they have to take a sideways dig at anyone who doesn't fall all over themselves to worship at the alter of (insert tech here).


I ride some pretty mad stuff w/o dropper, always have, and have the
move to get behind saddle and arms stretched waaay out to steer dialed...
never gonna put a dropper on my fast xc bike...

but droppers take -a lot- of pucker factor away in the drops -and- I don't have
to stretch my arms out of their sockets...and also helps high speed corners


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

127.0.0.1 said:


> I ride some pretty mad stuff w/o dropper, always have, and have the
> move to get behind saddle and arms stretched waaay out to steer dialed...
> never gonna put a dropper on my fast xc bike...
> 
> ...


Yeah - nothing wrong with them at all. If I were doing a lot of big drops or jumps during trail rides I'd probably put one of mine back on the bike too. Just really don't find a need for one on the vast majority of rides I do; for me to feel I need the seat dropped for a feature, it's likely something big and nasty enough that I'm just not going to hit it these days anyway.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

If you're referring to my post (no pun intended), I intended the "dumb" comment as directed at myself for not putting mine on my bike before a ride, knowing full well that I vastly prefer having one.

I consider droppers to be a greater technological advancement than rear suspension. Your arms and legs are your greatest provider of suspension, after all, and a dropper allows you to fully utilize them to the exact conditions you encounter.

I was honestly surprised to see so many people chime in who don't/won't use them. I haven't experienced any downsides to owning one -- only greater enjoyment of every ride.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

With a dropper, I find that I don't have to get behind the seat nearly as much on really gnarly steeps. Rather, I am riding with a lower COG altogether and there is still some beneficial weight on the front tire where you need braking traction.

I've done the full-height descending thing before, with my butt on the rear tire and my seat tickling my sternum-- and certainly, that is one way to descend.

I find that lowering the seat gives much better control. But y'all are free to do what you want.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

slapheadmofo said:


> Hasn't been a dropper thread yet that I've seen where at least a couple people didn't opine that anyone who doesn't use them must be just riding easy terrain. This thread is no exception; even got one person saying anyone choosing not to use one is dumb. Go back and take a peak...happens every time. Gear dorks can't just be happy saying 'I really like this part'; seems they have to take a sideways dig at anyone who doesn't fall all over themselves to worship at the alter of (insert tech here).


Yeah, a few people think it's dumb to ride without one and a few think it's dumb to ride with one, mostly they're just talking about themselves though and I don't take it personally.


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

HacksawReynolds said:


> Yawn....


Most informative post ever. Thank you. I could not have survived otherwise.


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

Nothing gets more excited then the industry inventing the next gadget that I can t be a real mtber without. Wheel size. Tire size. Bar width. More gears. Wireless shifting. Blah blah blah. When droppers are fully integrated into frames so I don t have to have 4 inches of seat post at a minimum, I 'll have one. When I m really going dh....i want my seat really down.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

Hey J.B., just to let you know, it wasn't Gravity Dropper whom invented the dropper post, I believe it was I, when I owned Hurricane Components.

This is long...................

The story begins like this......
Back in 1999, I got this idea about being able to lower my saddle, like I did back in the 80's when I was using a HiteRite. 
So, I mounted a HiteRite on my bike and with a small modification of the seat clamp( the HR was designed around a braze on seat clamp) I started to use the HR again and soon fell back in love with the ability to lower my saddle.
So later in 1999/ 2000, I contacted Joe Breeze( the co-inventer of the HR and one of the founding fathers of the MTB) about acquiring some HR's and told him of my idea, which he really liked and then told me he would sell me as many HR's I needed. Well, a couple of weeks later, Joe called and said that he talked to Josh Angell( the other co- invented) and Josh would agree to sell them to us, as long as I bought the whole batch, which if I remember was 25k units at $5 ea. Since I was going to re- introduce a modified version and was unsure how they would be received, I couldn't agree to those terms.
At the end of 2000, I designed and made a prototype, using a RockShox suspension seat post. It worked great and later I made a few Hurricane " Elevator Shaft" dropper posts.
It was amazing how much resistance I got on those. The post had only 3" max drop. I heard things such as " I'm fixing a problem that doesn't exist" or " too complicated" " too heavy" etc, but some people really liked them.
While at the 2002 Sea Otter, I had one on a bike, kind of hidden in my expo booth, when Zap spotted it and asked about, which I kinda wasn't ready for it to go public, so I told him that it was nothing and forget about what you saw, at that time, there was someone else who saw it, can't remember his name, but remember he was was from Montana. He asked about it and said that would be great and would be interested in acquiring one when they were available. I finally posted pictures and details of the Elevator Shaft on this site, I believe in June 2002(look it up in the archives)That person kept in contact with me over several months, but in that time, my wife got pregnant and later that year, I sold Hurricane. With the sale went my inventory, product and other items as well as the Elevator Shaft seat post, which never went into production.
I think it was 2004 when viewing a website, I saw the GD post, which appeared to be, in appearance, an exact knockoff of the Elevator Shaft post.

To sum it up, my bad for not getting a patent or bringing it to market and GD's good for bringing this idea to the market.


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

DaveVt said:


> Nothing gets more excited then the industry inventing the next gadget that I can t be a real mtber without. Wheel size. Tire size. Bar width. More gears. Wireless shifting. Blah blah blah. When droppers are fully integrated into frames so I don t have to have 4 inches of seat post at a minimum, I 'll have one. When I m really going dh....i want my seat really down.


Who is saying that you can't be a "real mtber"? That's an odd persecution complex you've suffering from.

Also, You don't have to have "4 inches of seatpost at a minimum."


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

fillaroida said:


> Who is saying that you can't be a "real mtber"? That's an odd persecution complex you've suffering from.
> 
> Also, You don't have to have "4 inches of seatpost at a minimum."
> 
> View attachment 1196074


What's the travel and how much for that model?


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

*Body position(s)*



jcd46 said:


> When the seat is down, do you just lower your center of gravity, and I don't have to be "behind" the saddle anymore? That's the one thing I struggle with is body position, and I'm wondering how the dropper will affect that.
> 
> However, in some of the pictures posted around, I see some of you with your butt behind the saddle and the saddle is dropped.


Getting way back over the back wheel Is old school and not needed as much on the newer 'geo bikes,,,as much is key.

The newer class of bikes, say anything made in the last three or four years and that's a gestimate. WAIT, as you were.

Let me re start this post:

I ride a 'slack' hard tail, with a 66.7 degree head tube angle and relatively short chain stays...
That means my front wheel is farther out and my back wheel is closer under me as are most modern trail bikes FS or HT.

Its more Important to keep your weight In your feet, on the pedals.
Keeping your weight centered and L-O-W Is key.
Hence the Dropper ! You cannot get low and keep your weight centered with a saddle sticking up In your Butt Crack  OR your belly If your a member of the 
Get back Crowd~
And shorter stems, I used to fit and ride a 90mm now a 60 mm stem.
I'd ride a 50mm but I'm a crappy climber,,

If your getting way way back over the tire on any thing but the absolute crazy steep stuff your unloading the front end so much you are basically riding down on one brake and one wheel.. Not Smart.
IF you can get LOW AND remain centered you have traction, steering and brakes at both ends,,follow me !

Did you know you can use both brakes going down without fear of going over the bars with the saddle all the way down ?
I can and do.

Did you know that when your way back over a tall saddle and you hit a bump that jacks your rear wheel up and your saddle hits you in the gut or groin the bike just kicked your center of mass up enough to endo you ???

As I said before, think of the dropper as another safety device..
makes me feel far safer going down or railing berms.


----------



## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

DaveVt said:


> What's the travel and how much for that model?


200mm, $449


----------



## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

The thread drift here is strong. I’ll admit I jumped on the bandwagon about how droppers are amazing. 

OPs post was about aesthetics, not function. I’m with you, man. A sleek carbon post is a thing of beauty. I resisted getting a dropper for years, among the reasons was aesthetics. Also weight, complexity and a lack of perceived need, but aesthetics were a consideration. I’ll admit i can be ‘that guy’... I ride a singlespeed, and for years I was rather proud that the only hoses or cables on my bike were brakes. I even ditched the fork lockout remote to clean up the cockpit. 


That said: I’ll add to thread drift some more... my bike has external routing only. I recently bought a dropper with the cable attachment at the stanchion base, not the post head. It looks less ‘dropper-ey’. 

Sure we can all ride things with a rigid post, and many of us (me) don’t chase KoMs or want to ride faster... honestly, for me, riding with a seat that can be instantly several inches lower is JUST MORE FUN. That pretty much all I care about. I ride because it makes me smile. I smile more when I can manual, bunny hop and maneuver around on my bike because my saddle isn’t pressed to my sternum or snuggled up against my taint.


----------



## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Osco said:


> Getting way back over the back wheel Is old school and not needed as much on the newer 'geo bikes,,,as much is key.
> 
> The newer class of bikes, say anything made in the last three or four years and that's a gestimate. WAIT, as you were.
> 
> ...


Thanks Osco, great lesson! 

Seriously that was very helpful!

Sorry if I'm the guilty party for the derrailment.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

jcd46 said:


> When the seat is down, do you just lower your center of gravity, and I don't have to be "behind" the saddle anymore? That's the one thing I struggle with is body position, and I'm wondering how the dropper will affect that.
> 
> However, in some of the pictures posted around, I see some of you with your butt behind the saddle and the saddle is dropped.


When I first installed my dropper, I carefully set it up so that at max height, it matched where I had my rigid post set. After riding a ways on my first ride, I stopped and raised the post up some as I realized I had been riding with my post height compromised, lowered below the ideal pedaling height to give myself room to move around some. So now I raise it for best climbing position but I can drop it an inch or so when hitting some chunk and have room to float over the saddle just like I did before. If I am doing a steep descent or hitting a long downhill flow trail, I'll drop all the way down to lower my gravity and stand some and sit some. A lot less fear of hitting something and getting ejected otb.

It takes a few rides to get used to and feels really odd fully dropped at first but you quickly realized how much getting your center of gravity lower helps your riding. I feel like it requires more forward and back movement with the seat dropped but I'm more in control, it really makes a big difference.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Rockadile said:


> I've read so many people postulating about the pros of droppers that I decided to give one a try on my hard tail. I just went for my first ride with it and I found it a bit awkward with the seat slammed. This is probably because I have always ridden with my post in a higher position as a compromise. I am gonna give it some more time to see if it is worth it to me.


Yep, feels awkward at first, realize that you do not have to lower it all the way if you don't need to, just lower it a little to give yourself room to move around. As I mentioned above, I was able to raise my max height higher than I had been riding, giving me better climbing position while seated.


----------



## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

chazpat said:


> When I first installed my dropper, I carefully set it up so that at max height, it matched where I had my rigid post set. After riding a ways on my first ride, I stopped and raised the post up some as I realized I had been riding with my post height compromised, lowered below the ideal pedaling height to give myself room to move around some. So now I raise it for best climbing position but I can drop it an inch or so when hitting some chunk and have room to float over the saddle just like I did before. If I am doing a steep descent or hitting a long downhill flow trail, I'll drop all the way down to lower my gravity and stand some and sit some. A lot less fear of hitting something and getting ejected otb.
> 
> It takes a few rides to get used to and feels really odd fully dropped at first but you quickly realized how much getting your center of gravity lower helps your riding. I feel like it requires more forward and back movement with the seat dropped but I'm more in control, it really makes a big difference.


Sweet! All these pointers are appreciated!

I currently keep my saddle at proper pedaling height, so this will be interesting.


----------



## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

This thread gets more and more teh funnez from the droppah crowd with each new post.

Carry on 🍿


----------



## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> Hey J.B., just to let you know, it wasn't Gravity Dropper whom invented the dropper post, I believe it was I, when I owned Hurricane Components.
> 
> This is long...................
> 
> ...


I was in contact with someone on this site about a dropper post they were developing in the early 2000s (before Gravity Dropper came out). I don't remember if it was you. I was living in either CT or CA at the time.

I was very interested, and had for years been hoping something like that would come to market.


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

Before I got my first dropper, I would stop at the start of a techy section, dismount, thumb the quick release and drop my saddle. This worked fine until I was burning mucho watts on the next climb because I had no saddle where I needed it. Stopping at the bottom to raise the saddle ? And loose all that precious speed ? Not A Chance ! 
Having the saddle dropped I could get low and fly while resting my engines.

Then I added one to my full suspension bike, that bike I had removed the front gears and modded to a 1x11, This saved me 1.2 pounds in bike weight, yeah I weighed the shifter, cable& housing, front derailleur, two chain rings and bolts.
I swear I could feel that weight loss !
Then I added the 1.1 pound dropper and this weight was all at the top of the bike. The bike before the dropper was a 31 pound sled and I really thought I could feel the weight. External cable, looked like crap because all my other cables were external.

I didn't know how to use the dropper so I sold it.
Then a more skilled rider told me the secret to the dropper, 
He said: "It's not knowing when to drop your saddle, It's knowing when to RAISE the saddle'.

I got another dropper and tried his wisdom, now back on a hard tail still using his wisdom.

I only raise it for casual trails or long fire road or X country trails or when I'm climbing.

On Long climbs I obviously burn watts slower on the saddle,
On steep smooth climbs being 'perched on the saddle nose is a good stability aid. Did you know to divide your saddle Into THREE separate riding positions ?

*Rear third*, The widest part is for resting, grabbing a water bottle, etc, 
(We Never dismount, our legs will go to crap), Use the rear third to keep moving.

*Middle third* of the saddle, Is the pedal platform, we get our miles In sitting here, Bike setup should make this spot your most efficient pedaling position.

*Front third*, For climbing, period !
This front section is used not only for power but to get your weight forward pus stabilize you to help you put down smooth power, best used with second or third gear as 1st is often the hardest to be smooth with.

Chest down low over the stem, I strive for no part of me to be moving about, 
Only my legs are moving, this saves more watts for my engines.
I am NOT a strong climber so I need to be spot on with my technique.
The details really do count !

And the dropper removes the saddle from the equation, simple


----------



## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

Joe Handlebar said:


> Don't get me wrong here, I'm not "anti-dropper" or a modern luddite. I just can't quite get into the aesthetics. Nothing is as good looking as a slick carbon XC bike with a appropriately tall carbon seatpost. I love the way my carbon post eats up the small vibrations in the trail on my hardtail. I love the way it looks. I love how light it is. But....I also love the way my dropper let's me hit stuff more aggressively. I can ride straight up XC and still go to my local bike parks for some low key fun. And for stuff I used to stick my saddle in my gut for....nope, no worries. But I just can't look at my dropper. Dammit.


You like the look of a sleek corvette or a Maserati,

I think of the dropper and they way It looks like a Jeep, with a wench on the front bumper Or a couple of big tow hooks,, In this I can admire my dropper If I feel so Inclined 

For what ever It's worth OP,
IMO, You started a really good thread :~)


----------



## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

My Gravity Dropper is a thing of beauty in all its 1995 shock-boot glory.


----------



## cwtch (Apr 26, 2018)

Besides disc brakes the dropper is the single best advancement in MTB since air suspension forks. I use mine so much it is crazy to think of riding without one. I would rather ride without gears than without a dropper... Oh sometimes I do.
Give me a hard tail with a dropper over a full suspension without a dropper any day.


----------



## Sideknob (Jul 14, 2005)

cookieMonster said:


> I consider droppers to be a greater technological advancement than rear suspension.


Wot?

Nahhhh.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

There are reviews on this site going back to '98 for these guys; first dropper I remember.
My buddy has a mint one installed on an old Amp Research.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Hurricane Jeff said:


> Hey J.B., just to let you know, it wasn't Gravity Dropper whom invented the dropper post, I believe it was I, when I owned Hurricane Components.
> 
> This is long...................
> 
> ...


Great story, thanks!


----------



## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

cwtch said:


> Give me a hard tail with a dropper over a full suspension without a dropper any day.


Absolutely!


----------



## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

cwtch said:


> Besides disc brakes the dropper is the single best advancement in MTB since air suspension forks. I use mine so much it is crazy to think of riding without one.
> Give me a hard tail with a dropper over a full suspension without a dropper any day.


I second this !


----------



## Brian_WK (May 3, 2013)

I inspire to ride my Hardtail more like Danny Macaskill and less like Nino Schurter (I can't do what either of them do). Hence why I need a dropper its more fun. Not a necessity just more fun. Even in town taking that 3 foot drop is much more pleasant when I can use all of my legs to take the drop instead of 3 inches before my taint turns to hamburger smashing into the seat.

Brian


----------



## jim c (Dec 5, 2014)

cwtch said:


> Besides disc brakes the dropper is the single best advancement in MTB since air suspension forks. I use mine so much it is crazy to think of riding without one.


I like your enthusiasm. All these advancements add to my enjoyment as well, but I'll add one more. After years of seeing those nutters sending it off into big-air and thinking "how the hell?" I discovered U-TUBE and some instructional edits done by pro-racers. Tips on better bike handling skills really changed my riding. Thank you Fabian Barel! With motoX in my past I thought I had a great touch on braking, turning ect. Always room for improvment. ha


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Brian_WK said:


> I can use all of my legs to take the drop instead of 3 inches before my taint turns to hamburger smashing into the seat.


You running 75mm cranks or just not leveling your pedals?

(175mm cranks give you ~7" of ass-travel space when you stand up.)


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

cwtch said:


> Besides disc brakes the dropper is the single best advancement in MTB since air suspension forks.


Funny thing is, air suspension forks don't really work or feel as good as quality coil forks. They're just lighter and easier to adjust. Coil still performs better and is much more reliable.


----------



## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

slapheadmofo said:


> Funny thing is, air suspension forks don't really work or feel as good as quality coil forks. They're just lighter and easier to adjust. Coil still performs better and is much more reliable.


tealy, is that you ?


----------



## Brian_WK (May 3, 2013)

slapheadmofo said:


> You running 75mm cranks or just not leveling your pedals?
> 
> (175mm cranks give you ~7" of ass-travel space when you stand up.)


Combination of not having my pedals perfectly level, bad form and having my knees bent in anticipation of landing.

Brian


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

127.0.0.1 said:


> tealy, is that you ?


I have 20+ year old coil forks that still work smooth as butter.
Put up or shut up!



Air has gotten a lot closer in feel over the time, but it took a lot of years.


----------



## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

cookieMonster said:


> If you're referring to my post (no pun intended), I intended the "dumb" comment as directed at myself for not putting mine on my bike before a ride, knowing full well that I vastly prefer having one.
> 
> I consider droppers to be a greater technological advancement than rear suspension. Your arms and legs are your greatest provider of suspension, after all, and a dropper allows you to fully utilize them to the exact conditions you encounter.
> 
> I was honestly surprised to see so many people chime in who don't/won't use them. I haven't experienced any downsides to owning one -- only greater enjoyment of every ride.


 All the posts about that they break or work poorly in the cold?


----------



## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> I think it's the other way around, people love tech and people demand tech. Gravity Dropper started because a rider wanted a better solution to a height right and made his own. When people started showing interest big companies saw the potential and jumped in the game, so to me it almost seems more of a grassroots movement. Nobody has to buy one, I haven't yet.


What I'm afraid of is that the mountain bike industry will become like the 'car' industry, which is really not the car industry anymore, it's the cushy truck/SUV/crossover industry with power windows, power steering, remote door unlock, A/C, heated and cooled seats, satellite radio, 17-way adjustable seats, speaker phone, automatic transmission, and soon, auto computer driving. I don't want a mountain bike like that. Although I have to admit e-bikes have great potential for going much farther in back trails/roads. That's the only tech I'm currently interested in.


----------



## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Guess I don't miss what I don't have? Most of what I pedal here in MA is short ridges and small hills. You drop for a 50 or 100' ( max) descent? Seems like a lots of work. YRMV.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

slapheadmofo said:


> You running 75mm cranks or just not leveling your pedals?
> 
> (175mm cranks give you ~7" of ass-travel space when you stand up.)


You often seem to question people when they say that it's easier for them to take drops with a lower seat. 175mm cranks and level pedals and for me any drop over 18" or so feels way easier and safer with the seat down, I manage ok with a standard post though.

Just to be clear, I'm not doubting you if your experiences are otherwise.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

richj8990 said:


> I don't want a mountain bike like that.


Luckily for you you don't have to buy one, old crappy tech is still widely available


----------



## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

slapheadmofo said:


> I have 20+ year old coil forks that still work smooth as butter.
> Put up or shut up!
> 
> 
> ...


welp 
if you see me rollin, 
yell at me GB/RM/Gilson Hill 
(once woods dry out more, Iama roadie for now, payin dues, puttin into the pain bank )

you can try out my DVO Diamond 110 Boost 170mm. it's pretty frickin excellent

It's on my kickstarter bike. 
I have a loud i9 hub, you'll know when I am farting around


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> You often seem to question people when they say that it's easier for them to take drops with a lower seat. 175mm cranks and level pedals and for me any drop over 18" or so feels way easier and safer with the seat down, I manage ok with a standard post though.
> 
> Just to be clear, I'm not doubting you if your experiences are otherwise.


No, I'm sure it's easier for them, I just didn't didn't see how he could only have 3" of room between his ass and the seat.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

127.0.0.1 said:


> welp
> if you see me rollin,
> yell at me GB/RM/Gilson Hill
> (once woods dry out more, Iama roadie for now, payin dues, puttin into the pain bank )
> ...


Will do.
Then I want to try it again in a few years and see how it's holding up.


----------



## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

slapheadmofo said:


> Funny thing is, air suspension forks don't really work or feel as good as quality coil forks. They're just lighter and easier to adjust. Coil still performs better and is much more reliable.


Lots of folks out there are willing to ride a fork that is "pretty OK" if it keeps that bike under some magic scale tipping point.

Ride the trails, not the scales!


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## askibum02 (Jul 7, 2005)

ARandomBiker said:


> Lots of folks out there are willing to ride a fork that is "pretty OK" if it keeps that bike under some magic scale tipping point.
> 
> Ride the trails, not the scales!


There are also outliers like myself that, at 260lbs geared, are outside of the weight range for a coil fork. Even the ACS-3 with it's revamped weight chart is too soft for me.


----------



## Sideknob (Jul 14, 2005)

Wanting an E-dropper for my Enduro-gravel bike.


----------



## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

Sideknob said:


> Wanting an E-dropper for my Enduro-gravel bike.


Magura has you covered.

MAGURA


----------



## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

Currently designing a WiFi compatible dropper for my rig.


----------



## Sideknob (Jul 14, 2005)

fillaroida said:


> Magura has you covered.
> 
> MAGURA


I must have it!


----------



## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

^there is also a KS version...


----------



## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

I absolutely love that I received a "negative reputation comment" for this thread. :lol:


----------



## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Some people don't want to read opinions that differ from theirs but read it anyway.


----------



## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

PASSION!!!!!!....for wishing no one had invented droppers. I can feel the passion sizzling here.


----------



## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

askibum02 said:


> There are also outliers like myself that, at 260lbs geared, are outside of the weight range for a coil fork. Even the ACS-3 with it's revamped weight chart is too soft for me.


 Worked ok for my vanilla coil. I'm 235 lbs + clothes+ gear. Heavy fork spring, sweet like buttah.


----------



## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

askibum02 said:


> There are also outliers like myself that, at 260lbs geared, are outside of the weight range for a coil fork. Even the ACS-3 with it's revamped weight chart is too soft for me.


Definitely a bummer. Would be cool if coil forks were popular enough that they made springs with proper rates for the Clydes.


----------



## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

slapheadmofo said:


> I have 20+ year old coil forks that still work smooth as butter.
> Put up or shut up!
> 
> 
> ...


Nah man, elastomers still rule.

But otherwise yeah. I sometimes miss my fox and zocchi coil forks from bitd.


----------



## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> Luckily for you you don't have to buy one, old crappy tech is still widely available


LOL yes it is. $45 for a triple crankset that you can make double, really having fun reinventing the wheel. Some people party like it's 1999, I'm riding like it's 1999.

On a more serious note, IF I were to get a dropper post, it may be actually one of the more expensive ones that has multiple seat levels, because what I'm really interested in is lowering the seat around two inches for smoother twisty stuff downhill, relatively slight declines where you can stay on the seat and not have to stand up or crouch over. For rougher stuff yes, you have to get off the seat one way or another but I'm interested in droppers more for actually staying on the seat in twisty stuff so that I can get a lower center of gravity and do better carves on hardpack. I'm going to experiment with lowering the current seat(s) for this and then decide. Osco earlier stated he was doing that for a while but got frustrated when an incline came up. Will have to figure that part out as I go.

Seems like everyone has a slightly different need for droppers. This original rant of a post has been really educational, I mean that. It's been a great thread actually, who would have thought...


----------



## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

ARandomBiker said:


> OPs post was about aesthetics, not function. I'm with you, man. A sleek carbon post is a thing of beauty.


Then again there are those that like the look of droppers because to me it equates to more speed and less balls smashing going down.


----------



## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

richj8990 said:


> For rougher stuff yes, you have to get off the seat one way or another but I'm interested in droppers more for actually staying on the seat in twisty stuff so that I can get a lower center of gravity and do better carves on hardpack.


You're doing it wrong, again.


----------



## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

jcd46 said:


> Sweet! All these pointers are appreciated!
> 
> I currently keep my saddle at proper pedaling height, so this will be interesting.


Yeah Osco provides really informative, practical advice. JB and Harold are up there too; those are the three ID's I look to most for advice.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

ryguy79 said:


> Nah man, elastomers still rule.
> 
> But otherwise yeah. I sometimes miss my fox and zocchi coil forks from bitd.


I've been bringing a handful of older bikes back to rideable lately, going with roughly period-correct parts for the most part. Been pleasantly surprised as to how good the old stuff actually works in a number of cases.

Lemme know if you need any elastomers - I've got a drawer full of them for everything from Manitou 4's to Onza pedals, and even some petrified Girvin bumpers.


----------



## tubbnation (Jul 6, 2015)

fillaroida said:


> Magura has you covered.
> 
> MAGURA





Sideknob said:


> I must have it!


My Reverb was sent back for warranty yesterday and my lbs threw one of these on to demo in the meantime.

I'm not too thrilled about the slight delay going up. Might not be a problem for some but it could cause some issues for me as the delay is a bit longer than I would like.

* edit 5/4 - I got a chance to test on the trail yesterday and the delay going both up and down is too long (for me).

I was riding a trail that has many ups and downs (all ditched out) with jumps, logovers, rocks, and roots, etc., so, usage was fairly demanding. After giving it a fair shot on this type of trail, I finally got tired of it's performance and decided to put the seat in one place so I didn't have to deal with it anymore.

My Reverb doesn't come back for awhile so I'll keep working this thing over and see if/how my opinion evolves.


----------



## cwtch (Apr 26, 2018)

slapheadmofo said:


> Funny thing is, air suspension forks don't really work or feel as good as quality coil forks. They're just lighter and easier to adjust. Coil still performs better and is much more reliable.


I did not know that. Have never owned a bike with a coil fork. I am really happy with the ease of tuning of my Pike on my mid travel bike and love the Fox Factory step cast on my race hardtail but am open to that something could be better.


----------



## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

Osco said:


> Before I got my first dropper, I would stop at the start of a techy section, dismount, thumb the quick release and drop my saddle. This worked fine until I was burning mucho watts on the next climb because I had no saddle where I needed it. Stopping at the bottom to raise the saddle ? And loose all that precious speed ? Not A Chance !
> Having the saddle dropped I could get low and fly while resting my engines.
> 
> Then I added one to my full suspension bike, that bike I had removed the front gears and modded to a 1x11, This saved me 1.2 pounds in bike weight, yeah I weighed the shifter, cable& housing, front derailleur, two chain rings and bolts.
> ...


Simple???? Nice novel, guy. You lost me at dismounting for a techy section haha.


----------



## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

ryguy79 said:


> Most informative post ever. Thank you. I could not have survived otherwise.


LOL, hey, I've learned a lot about different downhill techniques on this thread, surprisingly; if you know of one thread that combines an explanation of more different downhill styles all in one list please post the link. I had no idea how many different permutations there are for position on descents.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

richj8990 said:


> LOL, hey, I've learned a lot about different downhill techniques on this thread, surprisingly;


Yikes.


----------



## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

EatsDirt said:


> Yikes.


Yikes is right. Droppahs are even more laughable now than before this thread was created. Descending is not that hard people!!!! Most of you are moving around and contorting your bodies way more than you need to on the down and in chunk. Your rigid post was never in the way, you were in the way. And that hasn't changed now that you own a droppah.


----------



## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

WHALENARD said:


> I kinda wish I won the lottery or looked like Tom Selleck (not currently, the Magnum PI years)


Blue Bloods Selleck is rolling an eBike.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

HacksawReynolds said:


> Yikes is right. Droppahs are even more laughable now than before this thread was created. Descending is not that hard people!!!! Most of you are moving around and contorting your bodies way more than you need to on the down and in chunk. Your rigid post was never in the way, you were in the way. And that hasn't changed now that you own a droppah.


Why don't us DH racers ride with our seats jacked up? Why aren't motocross bikes' seats 8" higher? Oh, that's right -- we don't enjoy going over the bars.

Obviously, smooth, low-angle XC is not what droppers were invented for. If I had a nickel for every rider I've seen go over the bars when they encountered steep, staircase chunk with their seat all the way up...

Back on topic: I like the way droppers look. And of course, aesthetics are very important in the fashion show that is MTBing.


----------



## cwtch (Apr 26, 2018)

HacksawReynolds said:


> Yikes is right. Droppahs are even more laughable now than before this thread was created. Descending is not that hard people!!!! Most of you are moving around and contorting your bodies way more than you need to on the down and in chunk. Your rigid post was never in the way, you were in the way. And that hasn't changed now that you own a droppah.


With respect it isn't that one can't descend without a dropper. It isn't even that I personally descend a ton faster with a dropper. Getting my weight back for huge drops is simply easier with a dropper. Most trails can be ridden on a single-speed but are easier with gears. Same goes for a dropper. By all means I agree it isn't a must have. Still in some cases a dropper makes one faster and a trail more fun if racing isn't your thing. Doesn't mean anyone has to use them but they have a place in the world of MTB. Just like no one has to have hydraulic disc brakes. Many still prefer to.


----------



## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

HacksawReynolds said:


> Your rigid post was never in the way, you were in the way.


*assumes Russian accent* "In Mother Russia, you don't drop seatpost, seatpost drops You."
You're trolling now.


----------



## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

cwtch said:


> With respect it isn't that one can't descend without a dropper.......


With respect, you are feeding a troll


----------



## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

kapusta said:


> With respect, you are feeding a troll


Yup, don't waste the e-ink.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

HacksawReynolds said:


> Your rigid post was never in the way, you were in the way. And that hasn't changed now that you own a droppah.


Yea... um, NO. I've spend more years riding a fixed seat position in steeps then with a dropper. If you're not a troll - you're high.


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## cwtch (Apr 26, 2018)

kapusta said:


> With respect, you are feeding a troll


Thanks for the tip.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Can anyone link to a video of someone hitting a jump line with their seat at full height? That'd have to be entertaining to watch.


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## cwtch (Apr 26, 2018)

jeremy3220 said:


> Can anyone link to a video of someone hitting a jump line with their seat at full height? That'd have to be entertaining to watch.


Totally second this! A huge road gap on a full out xc race bike seat all the way up. It would be a crowd pleaser. 🍿🎬📽📺


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)




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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

Not trolling at all.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

jeremy3220 said:


> Can anyone link to a video of someone hitting a jump line with their seat at full height? That'd have to be entertaining to watch.


I wish I had video, I have done it, before droppers were mainstream. I must say being able to get the seat down is leaps and bounds better.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

cwtch said:


> Totally second this! A huge road gap on a full out xc race bike seat all the way up. It would be a crowd pleaser. 🍿🎬📽📺


Cuz most of the people with droppers are hitting 'huge road gaps' on their trail bikes on a regular basis, I'm sure. Post up some pics!


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## Cot-Rodger (Aug 26, 2015)

HacksawReynolds said:


> Yikes is right. Droppahs are even more laughable now than before this thread was created. Descending is not that hard people!!!! Most of you are moving around and contorting your bodies way more than you need to on the down and in chunk. Your rigid post was never in the way, you were in the way. And that hasn't changed now that you own a droppah.


I just read through this entire thread, and the subject matter appears to be dropper seat posts. I can't help but notice that you keep referring to a "droppah." What exactly, may I ask, is a droppah? I googled it, but nothing comes up, which leads me to believe that this "droppah" you speak of does not actually exist. (google knows about pretty much everything).

So, with my really super great reasoning skills, I have come to the conclusion that you are a very confused person who is posting away about droppah's in a thread about droppers. Whatever a droppah is in your mind, it is not a dropper. Therefore, with more sound reasoning, I suggest you cease posting about droppah's and only post if you have something to say about droppers. Preferably something that comes somewhere reasonably close to a reasonable post about droppers.


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

When I first started riding I was impressed and inspired by what could be ridden on a average Mtn Bike and a good rider. Now I amazed at how little skill the average rider has on a good Mtn Bike. 

I watch people come through our riding center and do a lap through the skills park/pump track as they hit the trail. The lack of skill by people on really spendy Knolly and Pivot bikes is striking. All with their seats moving up and down for every change from up to down as if it's going to make a difference for any of them. 

They need to learn to ride a bike not operate yet another gadget on it. 

Not worth the money for me. I'm sure I'll love it when I get one, but at this point I wouldn't spend much for one.


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

Cot-Rodger said:


> I just read through this entire thread, and the subject matter appears to be dropper seat posts. I can't help but notice that you keep referring to a "droppah." What exactly, may I ask, is a droppah? I googled it, but nothing comes up, which leads me to believe that this "droppah" you speak of does not actually exist. (google knows about pretty much everything).
> 
> So, with my really super great reasoning skills, I have come to the conclusion that you are a very confused person who is posting away about droppah's in a thread about droppers. Whatever a droppah is in your mind, it is not a dropper. Therefore, with more sound reasoning, I suggest you cease posting about droppah's and only post if you have something to say about droppers. Preferably something that comes somewhere reasonably close to a reasonable post about droppers.


? Lol. And uh DaveVt is spot on.?


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## cwtch (Apr 26, 2018)

slapheadmofo said:


> Cuz most of the people with droppers are hitting 'huge road gaps' on their trail bikes on a regular basis, I'm sure. Post up some pics!


My point was lost... not so much that a dropper is only used for big air but has like many bike parts benefits to the user. It is not that one can not ride without a dropper but some aspects of riding are either enhanced or made quicker with a dropper for many people. This is not to say that one must have a dropper or even needs it. Heck, we used to ride before hydraulic disc brakes, that doesn't mean they are unnecessary or only for lesser riders. They like a dropper have benefits. Much of the riding I do I would not want to do without either. 



 short clip instead of a picture for you


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

cwtch said:


> short clip instead of a picture for you


NICE!

:thumbsup:


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

Best invention since disk brakes, hands down. Sure, you could ride all the same stuff with a rigid seatpost fully extended, but why would you want to? It's like having 3 bikes in one.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

Agreed. Most of our trails are steep, nonstop climbs followed by steep, chunky root-fests with natural drops. Ever since the invention of the quick-release seatpost clamp, I've always stopped to lower the seat if it's a long descent. Short descents, I'd just ride with the seat up, which is certainly possible but not as effective for technical descending, and downright dangerous in a lot of situations. When droppers came along, it was a no-brainer for me. I now enjoy 100% of my ride.

The comments in this thread about lowering your seat being a crutch for a lack of skills are ridiculous, IMO. Trolling? Probably. But until I actually see someone keep up with their seatpost maxed while riding down something like the Horsethief drop-in, Portal trail, or Ladies Only in Vancouver, I'll continue to drop my seat, dropper post or otherwise.

This isn't a case like all the wheel size changes, Boost, and handlebar standard changes that only provide marginal improvements to our riding experience.

Droppers are on par with the jump from canti-brakes all the way to modern discs.


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## cwtch (Apr 26, 2018)

slapheadmofo said:


> NICE!
> 
> :thumbsup:


 
Just to be clear, I totally agree most people are not riding super tough stuff. Especially not on the regular. I often am on far more bike than I need for what I am doing.


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## cwtch (Apr 26, 2018)

cookieMonster said:


> Agreed. Most of our trails are steep, nonstop climbs followed by steep, chunky root-fests with natural drops. Ever since the invention of the quick-release seatpost clamp, I've always stopped to lower the seat if it's a long descent. Short descents, I'd just ride with the seat up, which is certainly possible but not as effective for technical descending, and downright dangerous in a lot of situations. When droppers came along, it was a no-brainer for me. I now enjoy 100% of my ride.
> 
> The comments in this thread about lowering your seat being a crutch for a lack of skills are ridiculous, IMO. Trolling? Probably. But until I actually see someone keep up with their seatpost maxed while riding down something like the Horsethief drop-in, Portal trail, or Ladies Only in Vancouver, I'll continue to drop my seat, dropper post or otherwise.
> 
> ...


Really well put. I agree


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

cookieMonster said:


> Droppers are on par with the jump from canti-brakes all the way to modern discs.


I guess it's all relative, for me a remote lockout for the road ride to/from the trailhead is more important than a dropper. My local trail there are a couple of sections that having a dropper is really handy, I can do them without, but it's much easier with a dropper, but the rest of the trails it's not any better with a dropper...but the 40min road/climb to get there, I want my lockout (or my HT...still with a lockout)


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

When I read these pointless threads that always turn into a steaming pile of crap, I try to keep in mind that people ride in all kinds of terrain. Here a traditional XC race bike is a rarity and droppers are ubiquitous, while it's the opposite somewhere else.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I've had some firsthand experience over the past couple weeks that reiterate why I like having a dropper post.

I've been riding my Thomson Covert for about 2.5yrs (about 6mo past the warranty period) and it needed a little TLC. It had a little side-to-side wiggle, but was tolerable. What was getting annoying was that the seat would sink a bit after I'd sit on it (when fully extended). It started small, but got to be as much as an inch before I decided it was time for service. The negative about Thomson posts is that they're kinda expensive to service, and you have to send them out. They're not user serviceable (or even shop-serviceable). 

I had a rigid post in my parts box, so no biggie. Put that on, and sent out the dropper. On downhills and in chunky stuff, it is so beneficial to drop the seat. I was absolutely dropping it manually before long descents. What sucked is that I could no longer drop it for short moves during a ride. Especially on climbs. Not without stopping to mess with it. The rigid seatpost was essential for my bikepacking ride last weekend, though. Strapping my seat bag to the dropper stanchion would be a no-no. I did several rides with the rigid seatpost, manually dropping it before long descents, but not having access to a quick drop for small tech stuff. Which I still rode. Just more slowly, and less fun. I missed the dropper.

Yesterday as I was loading up for a ride, I got a call from my shop that my dropper was back. I totally stopped at the shop on the way to ride and installed it right away so I could have access again. Loved having it available to me on that ride, as there were lots of rock drops, lips for air, opportunities to bunny hop, and even a couple technical moves when climbing where a little drop was beneficial.

When I lived in the midwest, I didn't REALLY use the dropper for extended periods. I used it a little, but the big use came when I rode elswhere (and I do travel a bit to ride). At this point, I don't think I'd buy a mtb without a dropper.

The same applied to my use of suspension lockouts and such. Those were even more extreme. I never touched those levers before moving to Western NC. Now I use those levers on my fork/shock to firm things up on the long gravel climbs we have here on just about every ride. Still, I don't feel much need for remote levers. The switches are accessible enough while I'm seated that I don't really feel a need.


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## HacksawReynolds (Dec 1, 2017)

l-o-l


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

HacksawReynolds said:


> l-o-l


Nice TIE fighter!

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

DaveVt said:


> When I first started riding I was impressed and inspired by what could be ridden on a average Mtn Bike and a good rider. Now I amazed at how little skill the average rider has on a good Mtn Bike.
> 
> I watch people come through our riding center and do a lap through the skills park/pump track as they hit the trail. The lack of skill by people on really spendy Knolly and Pivot bikes is striking. All with their seats moving up and down for every change from up to down as if it's going to make a difference for any of them.
> 
> ...


Couple of thoughts.

First we tend to judge everyone else as if we are the norm or standard. How are these riders relative to me? When you first start out, the people you run in to see more skilled and the trails gnarlier since they were, relative to you and your skillset at the time.

Secondly we tend to rewrite the past, making it so ourselves back then are the same as we are now. We act like we always knew what we have only later learned or always had the skills we have now. Which it is why it is so uncomfortable when people who have known you your entire life, remind you of behavior or ideas that you had then that you have matured out of.

Third, we suffer from confirmation bias. We see what we believe we are going to see and we find what we expect to find.

So, have you ever thought that maybe those three things are combining when you watch people in the skills course? That people doubting their skills (perhaps rightfully so) are testing them out before hitting the trail? What percentage of riders going to the center hit the skills area? Is there bias to the populations? Is there bias to your rating of their skills relative to the cost/capability of their bikes? Do you count the number of riders you watch and plot their observed skills? Do you get confirmation of their skills from other people?

Are you measuring their skills against their time riding/riding history? I've only been riding three plus years. I'm comfortable on intermediate trails, competent on advanced, and will ride some expert, but I would not claim to be a good biker and might very well fail your threshold for being allowed to use a dropper. I'm also a professional(in the career sense, not bike sense) and 46 so I can afford all the bike (actually bikes) I want. I spend at least an hour a week working on basic skills (track stands, wheelies, and cutties being the current focus) but I'm not good at wheelies yet. So that is me on that bike, underperforming. But maybe I'll grow into it. Then again maybe not.

Are you sure you're really seeing what you think you are seeing? And if you are, what makes you think you know those people will enough to understand what is going on? Maybe they suck compared to their components, but have the disposable income and are really committing to learning. Maybe they are totally dilettantes who have nice bikes and equipment but will never be good riders. Why does it matter? Why should there be a skills test before people are allowed equipment or fancy bikes?

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