# Chris King ISO or Hope Pro 2 Hubs ?



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

I’m building a Santa Cruz Bullit

The build is as follows:

Santa Cruz Bullit with 150mm Dropouts
Santa Cruz Floating Brake Kit
Hubs (TBA)
Rock Shox Totem Coil 1.5
Cane Creek 110 OneFive Headset
Rock Shox Vivid 5.1 
Mavic 729 Rims
Shimano Saint Cranks
Shimano Saint Discs, Brakes & Shifters
Thomson Elite One Point Five Stem
Thomson Masterpiece Seatpost
Truvativ BooBar Riser Bars
Selle Italia Flite Gel Flow Saddle
DMR V12 Mag Pedals
Continental Mountain King Protection 2.4 Tyres

I’m stuck on the hubs... so please let me know what you guys think

My choice of hubs is as follows:

Chris King ISO Disc Front Hub - 20mm
Chris King ISO Disc Rear Hub - 150 x 12mm

Or

Hope Pro 2 Disc Front Hub - 20mm
Hope Pro 2 Disc Rear Hub - 150mm x 12mm XL

I weigh 95kg fully kitted but with my back pack I’m pushing 120kg.

Many Thanks


----------



## lalocotequinta (Mar 28, 2007)

Any reason you're not considering Hadley's, In my opinion they're the best bang for the money.


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

They need to be serviced by my local dealer so it's Hope or Chris King


----------



## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

Santa Cruz Bullit said:


> They need to be serviced by my local dealer so it's Hope or Chris King


Kings.

Probably a bit more durable, but also more points of engagement (but that might/not matter to you).

Go hope front if you are looking to save $$$, but coming from a Hope rear to a King rear with the HD/funbolts, I won't go back.


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks CharacterZero

In the UK the cost of the hub are as follows: 

The cost of the two Hope hubs = £175 or $270 

The cost of the two Chris King hubs = £520 or $800

So why are Chris King Hubs worth that much more ?

Do you notice any extra wheel-drag due to the extra engagement ?


----------



## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

Kings aren't worth the extra money.


My Hopes have been flawless for almost 5 years now, and I think I've serviced them once. Mud, water, stream crossings and XC riding, dirt jumping, downhill... they are full on. Is engagement awesome? No, but who gives a damn? To me that's just splitting hairs considering the price difference. Quality is still awesome with the Hopes and anybody who says otherwise is probably a I9 or CK groupie.


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks Jim311,

Do your Hopes make a lot of noise?

It's one of the few Hope flaws that I've read about.


----------



## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

They are noisy but IMO less annoying than Kings whirr whirrr whirrr whirrr, although they are louder.


I think it sounds rad myself. Clickity clack!


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Cheers Jim311,

So not so much a flaw as a characteristic...

Does anyone else have an opinion about the noise of the Hopes or Kings ?


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Santa Cruz Bullit said:


> They need to be serviced by my local dealer so it's Hope or Chris King


sheesh...I mailed my hubs UPS on a wednesday at 5pm and Friday morning I was riding my bike after a rebuilt....

Hadley is the best bang for buck and awesome customer service


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Shiver Me Timbers,

Do you know if Hadley have a website

I would need these two hubs but can't find a dealer that stocks them here in the UK or the Hadley website

Hadley SDH-XL 150 Disc Rear Hub 12mm x 150mm Thru-Axle

Hadley Disc Hub 20mm Thru Axle

Balleracing in the US seem to have Hadley stock


----------



## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

King's 72 POE , Hope 24 POE - I am quite use to high engagement points so personally Hopes do nothing .for me. One plus for the Hope , for trail use, they really kept me pedalling because I didn't care for the "card in the spokes" loud hub sound.


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks Keen,

Is the difference that noticeable between the two?


----------



## lalocotequinta (Mar 28, 2007)

I've never tried King's, but after switching from Hope's to Hadley's, I will not go back. Nothing wrong with the Hope's but I found the rear ones way too loud for my taste, it drove me nuts... I still am running them up front though...


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks Lalocotequinta,

Just out of interest how good are the Hadleys... 

I wont be buying them this time but for my next project I might have a play with them.


----------



## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

Good info here.


----------



## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

Funny this thread comes up. I have three sets of wheels for my M6: one with Kings, one with Hadleys, and one with Hopes. Each wheelset has a different tire set and is used for different types of riding. Even besides these wheelsets, I have other bikes with King, Hadley, and Hope hubs, so I've had a lot of experience with all of them.

Here's my quick opinions (sorry, don't have time to type too many details).
- Wheelbuild strenght: The King and Hadley hubs build up the strongest rear wheel because of the wide flange spacing. The Hope flanges are very narrow.

- Freewheel performance: the POE of King and Hadley is great. The Hopes suck.

- Serviceability: King parts are readily available. Hadley and Hope parts are a little tougher to find locally in southern California.

- Service support: King is easiest to get service information from followed by Hope. If you have the secret decoder ring with access to Hadley, good for you. The service information posted on their website sucks a$$. Oh wait - they don't freakin' have one.

- Noise: Who cares. Some are louder than others.

- Reliability: Kings first, followed closely by Hadley. Although I haven't experienced any problems with Hopes, I've seen plenty of problems from broken hub shells to broken pawls and springs to be concerned. 

- Appearance: Come on! Everyone cares, right? Kings first, followed by Hadley at a distance (their ano isn't very appealing in many colors). And Hope in a distant fifth - yeah, they're that far off, I think, unless you really like that "dead, flat, colorless ano" look.

- Cost: The Hopes are the cheapest (after all that above, shouldn't they be?), followed by Hadley. And the most expensive is obviously Kings.

Having said that, I now go with Kings for all of my bikes, including my DH, 4X, XC, XC singlespeed, and both BMX race bikes.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

DON'T buy a 150mm Hope hub. It uses the same shell as the 135mm so you don't get as strong a wheel as a normal 150 hub.
In my opinion Kings are too heavy and pricey and there are much better hubs than both these brands available. I have a 150mm Bullit and use American Classics. Super light, cheapish, quiet freehub.

BTW, your shop should be able to service any brand of hub since I can in my living room.


----------



## lalocotequinta (Mar 28, 2007)

Santa Cruz Bullit said:


> Thanks Lalocotequinta,
> 
> Just out of interest how good are the Hadleys...
> 
> I wont be buying them this time but for my next project I might have a play with them.


For me, they are what I need in a hub, that is, super reliable, light, excellent quality and plenty of the blink factor. I could not justify to pay the extra $$ for a King hub when the Hadleys perform just as well.
By the way, I just serviced two of my rear ones in less than 20 min....


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks Blaster1200, Lalocotequinta, Uncle Cliffy & Lelandjt

Please factor in the following

I'm in the UK miles from the nearest dealer

Spare Parts Availability and Reliability are the priorities for me 

FYI: The last thing I serviced mechanically died and went to meet the MTB scrap yard in the sky 10 seconds later

Looks wise... it’s all going to be black... I reckon Henry Ford got it right

(History Lesson - Black paint dried faster which was why Ford used it on the Model T)

I don’t need a status symbol, I need a bike that will take a kicking in the happy sacks and laugh it off

Or I’m stuffed and have to walk 20miles home so these hubs need to be tough


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

The jury may still be out on the durability/ease of maintenance of AmClassics. I've had no problems with 1 year of use on 4 hubs so I haven't taken them apart. Their older hub design did give people problems that their new hubs have supposedly cured. Since hubs are supposed to last years it takes a while to evaluate the durability of a new model.


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks to all the guys above

Does anyone else have any thoughts about Hope V Chris King ?

To sum up

(1) I'm Heavy 120kg inc back pack
(2) I do 50% Hard Rock Track and 50% Downhill for approx 20 miles a day
(3) I can't service the kit myself as (1) I don't have the time (2) I'll just bugger it up
(4) I ride rain or shine and jet wash my bikes down after use
(5) My choices are limited due to the need for a 20mm front and 150mm X 12mm rear

Any other advice would be welcome


----------



## liqwid (Jan 2, 2007)

Santa Cruz Bullit said:


> jet wash my bikes down after use


None of your bearings will last if you do this :nono:


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks Liqwid

My hardtail XTR hubs have lasted for 4 years so far and I jet wash the bike a minimum of twice a week and in the winter daily

I asking to much of Hope or King ? 

I go through GT85 Spray Lubricant like it's going out of fashion... but it seems to work

I had the hubs serviced last year and they didn't find anything wrong with them

I can't go down the XTR path with the Bullit so I'm stuck with the Hope or King choice


----------



## liqwid (Jan 2, 2007)

Santa Cruz Bullit said:


> Thanks Liqwid
> 
> My hardtail XTR hubs have lasted for 4 years so far and I jet wash the bike a minimum of twice a week and in the winter daily
> 
> ...


If you re-lube then I don't think the power washing will be as much of a problem but keep in mind that there's more bearings on your bike than just your hubs 

I own CK hubs and they're pretty easy to do a quick re-lubing. My friend has Hope hubs and they're pretty easy to take apart to re-lube as well. Overall between CK and Hope I'd shell out the extra money for the CK. I had the same choice and wanted the extra engagement but that was also on a bike that does a lot of pedaling. If I was just doing just DH I'd probably go with Hope just because they are cheaper to replace parts and they're pretty simple.


----------



## The Orange Prophet (Oct 4, 2006)

I'll start of by say that I know nothing about the Kings. I've got a set of Hopes on my Prophet and a Hope front on my quake (I'll be upgrading the rear to a Hope at some point as well).

They have all been faultless.

Don't worry about being a distance from your dealer when it comes to servicing. It's a piece of p1ss. There are a few decent threads on here such as

http://forums.mtbr.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=6707613

I've done it a few times and never had any problems. The parts are easily available from Chainreaction and the like and not too spendy.


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks Liqwid,

Thats a good point, I guess it's more about how the Kings behave on the flat V the hopes

Could I ask how long you've had your present Kings?

I seems that Kings go on for ever from what I've read and can take a fair amount of abuse


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks Orange Prophet,

Could you give me some idea of how "hard" you ride and what kind of hits your hubs can take

The cost of the Kings over the Hope is so great I need a good reason not to buy the Hopes

Any info about your hubs would be great


----------



## liqwid (Jan 2, 2007)

Santa Cruz Bullit said:


> Thanks Liqwid,
> 
> Thats a good point, I guess it's more about how the Kings behave on the flat V the hopes
> 
> ...


I've only had my Kings for about 6 months but FWIW I like to take things apart so even though I haven't had them that long they have been torn down as far as I could get them without taking the bearings out completely (you need a special tool for that). They take a little breaking into but I love the extra engagement. I only ride using flats and five ten's and do 20 mile treks on a regular basis. Its nice to be able to ratchet over stuff and I can kick the crank easier when my tire falls into a hole. Another thing to know is that CK hubs will require more maintenance than the Hope hubs so you will want to be comfortable with being able to do some minor stuff on them somewhat regularly. The documentation on both Hope and CK are excellent.

http://www.hopegb.com/page_mep_force_37.html

http://chrisking.com/tech/tech_hubs


----------



## lalocotequinta (Mar 28, 2007)

Lelandjt already pointed out that the rear 150mm Hope shares the same shell as the 135mm, to me that sounds like a liability.


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Santa Cruz Bullit said:


> Shiver Me Timbers,
> 
> Do you know if Hadley have a website
> 
> ...


no website...here is phone number
909-946-6780


----------



## liqwid (Jan 2, 2007)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> no website...here is phone number
> 909-946-6780


Thats gonna be an expensive call from the UK


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Shiver Me Timbers,

Thanks for the number... Although it's King or Hope this time I may well give them a try next time


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

I tend to agree Lalocotequinta,

My weight is the trouble... if I pack a serious amount of kit (Climbing and Camp gear) and get lost for the weekend I could be hitting 120kg - 125kg

My hardtail can't take the loading and I've killed the rims on it twice on lesser loads

Hence the move to a full suss bike with a 600lb spring (Might be a 650lb spring TBA)

I've read that the Hope hubs can split under serious loading too

I'd like to know what The Orange Prophet or anyone else who has Hope hubs thinks


----------



## Guest (Mar 18, 2010)

Kings.

I am a big boy at 6'3" and 250lbs and have had the same pair of Kings for over 5 years, they probably have around 15,000 miles on them. In that time I have had 0 issues, thats none, nada, zilch.

No pawls to deal with and probably the best bearings in the business make them better than anything else out there.

Simply take them apart every 6 months or so, clean em, lube em and reassemble. Takes 10-20 minutes tops and they are ready to go.

If your a big guy, just make sure to get the fun bolts and steel axle and ditch the QR and they will be bombproof.


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks sixsixtysix

Which bolts are you using and how much downhill are you doing

Think you are right... So far it seems to be more in favour of Chris King than Hope


----------



## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

If you're riding downhill take into mind the drag that Kings have. It only makes sense that the more engagement you have the more friction there will be. As far as splitting hubs that seemed to me to be from tension that was too high, and only a few isolated cases.


----------



## The Orange Prophet (Oct 4, 2006)

Santa Cruz Bullit said:


> Thanks Orange Prophet,
> 
> Could you give me some idea of how "hard" you ride and what kind of hits your hubs can take
> 
> ...


I'm well over the 100kg mark with all the gear on and it would be fair to say that I lack finesse on a bike. I don't get to ride as much as I would like, family and work can be a bit restrictive, so the Hopes haven't been exposed to the continued abuse that they might have.

My riding is mainly split between Chicksands and Cwm Carn. Chicksands is pretty smooth but there are some reasonable sized drops in the freeride area and I always seem to get the big triple wrong on the 4x track and hit hard. As far as Cwm Carn goes, we pretty much stick to the downhill track (the xc loop tends to be for night rides only!), it may not have the biggest jumps but it's rough enough that at speed there'll be a fair bit of abuse going through the hubs. I've run both bikes there and have also used the rear off the prophet on the quake when I had a puncture and its been a choice of fix it or get the next uplift. I've also hammered both bikes down the Pyrenese which are super rocky, relentless jack hammer type hits. No issues ever.

I hope that helps. I'm not trying to big up the Hopes over the CK's. It make no difference to me what you get but my experience of the Hopes is that they won't let you down.

Chris


----------



## Guest (Mar 18, 2010)

Santa Cruz Bullit said:


> Thanks sixsixtysix
> 
> Which bolts are you using and how much downhill are you doing
> 
> Think you are right... So far it seems to be more in favour of Chris King than Hope


Chris King has a ISO Hub with Fun Bolts, its just an axel option that is their version of a bolt on axel.

My hubs were on my DH/FR rig for a couple seasons, they are currently laced to 823's on my 5" AM bike, but they are still light enough to be a "AM" wheelset. :thumbsup:


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks Orange Prophet,

I'm interested in your hubs and your findings

I haven't used either before and like I said I'm not after a hub for the bling

Dorset in the UK is kind of like a miniature Pyrenees with rocky outcrops etc

It sounds as if you’re doing the same kind of riding as me just I sneak out more


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Blaster1200,

If you forget the looks and the noise of the Hopes, which would you go for?

Based purely on performance V cost


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks for that sixsixtysix,

How often do you service them ?


----------



## Guest (Mar 18, 2010)

Santa Cruz Bullit said:


> Thanks for that sixsixtysix,
> 
> How often do you service them ?


About every 6 months I pull the axel and drive shell, clean everything out with Clean Streak and then re-lube it with the King Ring Drive Lube, reassemble and done. Super easy.


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks Sixsixtysix

I've been looking at the King and Hope videos to see how they come apart...


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks Jim311,

I've added some of the Horror Hope Hub pics to my gallery 

There seem to be a fair few stories and accounts of this happening

I'm still looking for the King Pics


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Ok Everyone,

I've added to my MTBR Profile Gallery pics of failed Hope and King hubs...

I guess that servicing and use all had a part to play in their failure

That said, there are more Hope failures listed online than King failures

I know that each hub will have "given up" in different way and I would love to hear from someone who has had this happen to them

I would love to know how and why they failed

Everyone above has given fair and honest answers... thank you guys

If you can shed anymore light on this subject I would be most greatful


----------



## Guest (Mar 18, 2010)

Santa Cruz Bullit said:


> Ok Everyone,
> 
> I've added to my MTBR Profile Gallery pics of failed Hope and King hubs...
> 
> ...


Just so you know, that "broken" King, was actually caused by salt corrosion from being ridden in the winter on salty roads. Its called "stress corrosion cracking" and King still warrantied it, here is the full story:

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/broken-chris-king-hub


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Cheers Sixsixtysix,

Information like that is great... if anyone else has any horror stories re hubs please let me know.

Re the pic... if all he had to do was pay for postage and a wheel rebuild I think that's more than fair

I guess the question should be do Hope offer the same level of service ?


----------



## Jens_Fredrik (May 7, 2008)

SC Bullit: If I was 120kg I would really stress the importance of flange width. The Hope hubs are narrower and will not build as stiff as hubs with larger flange width. Heavy people notice this more than skinny guys, especially if you are 100+

Why are you not considering Shimano Saints, DT 440 or Acros? Saint should be bomb-proof, the DT hubs are not bling but seems strong as hell. Personally, I like Acros, I have no experience with their hubs, but the specs look good. I am using an Acros headset on my 303R and it still feels like new after a season of abuse.


----------



## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

*perspective*



Santa Cruz Bullit said:


> Ok Everyone,


Look man, the incidence of either hub failing is really really REALLY low.

You will be happy with either. If POE is a factor, get the CK, if not, save some bones and get the hope.

(fwiw, my hopes broke at the spoke hole and cracked accross the hub). I woulda gotten another hope, but for $80 I was able to upgrade to the CK. If it weren't such a slight difference in the deal I got, I would b3e on a Hope now.


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Hi Jens Fredrik,
I've have friends with DT's that have fallen apart and the trails here kick up a weird type of dust that is very abrasive and gets in everything, hence the jet washing.
I even witnessed a DT cease mid-ride... 
I did take a look at both the DT Swiss and the Saints
The 340 Disc Rear 12mm x 150mm £120
The 340 Disc Front 20mm £180
And 
The 440 Disc Rear 12mm x 150mm £140
The 440 Disc Front 20mm £310 
And 
Shimano Saint Rear Hub M815 12mm x 150mm £100
Shimano Saint Front Hub 20mm M810 £50
The Saints are built to a price and you can see that when you handle them.
I will be using the Saint Brakes, Cranks etc but it’s a firm no for the hubs.
DT Swiss is more a trust issue... out of six riding buddies four have used DT’s and all have had problems here.
Oh and by the way I reckon they are named 340 and 440 coz that’s how much a pair cost...
As for Acros, I need parts readily available and no one in miles stocks them.
So, like the Hadleys, I have to dismiss the Acros, DT Swiss and Saint.


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks CharacterZero

I hear where you are coming from... Kings seem to be the answer so far.


----------



## rongarr (Jan 27, 2009)

*Hope For Sure*

Jim 311 is absolutley correct. I've been running Hope pro 2's for over two years,
I've never touched either hub - at least 8 dh races, mud (plenty of that latley here in ca) major wash'es etc... hubs are perfect. In my opinion, they're every bit as good as King or Hadley but NOT OVER PRICED.
My bike: Santa Cruz driver 8.


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks Rongarr

How easy are they to service... my worry here is that (1) I'm too heavy for the Hopes and (2) having watched DT's fail due to the rock dust here that the Hopes will too.

The four DT's that failed on my friends were all replaced with Kings so I know they work well.

The Hopes are the unknown for me... do I try them or don't I

How heavy are you Rongarr... sorry to ask.


----------



## Nick_M2R (Oct 18, 2008)

Both me and my mates run hopes, and have been for over 3 years, and not one problem with cracked hub shells or broken cassette shells. In this 3 years, we have subject them to Heaps of failed 360 attempts, multiple backflip bails, numerous street rides, flat landings and bails, shitloads of DH/FR/DJ sessions all while subjecting them to the Aussie outback dust and we have not had one word of complaint from any of the hubs. They are piss easy to services, everything just slides together, no fancy/custom tools needed to service, just remove the end cap, wack the axle out and everything slides apart, clean, regrease and slide it all back together. Hopes are great hubs, i really couldnt give a **** about the points of POE, if the bike moves forward, im happy. Hopes IMO are high quality items, made in UK and come in a heap of colours. Never will i use another brand of hub.

The gold Hope Pro II's i had on my Bass, granted we anit the heaviest of people, gave no complaint for 3 years, whereas i managed to crack the frame twice.

Go with king if you want the colour and prestige and the Ring drive if thats your thing, otherwise IMO King stuff is way over rated, case in point, their headsets. The true "King" of headsets is a Cane Creek 110.....


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Good Point about the headsets Nick M2R

I’ve got a Black Cane Creek 110 One Five sat in front of me right now... shame they don’t make hubs

A 110 year guarantee from Creek or 10 year guarantee from Chris King ummmm 
I’m Interested in the Aussie outback dust effect on the Hope.

The POE isn't a selling point for me and I don't get the prestige of Kings over anything else... my phone cost more than them and no one gives a **** !

Thanks for the input Nick M2R... just what I needed.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

I just ordered a Hope Pro 2 based wheelset from CRC... I was gonna get a Hadley based wheelset but CRC deals are hard to beat.... I may change the rear hub to Hadley near the future..


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Tacubaya,

I'm still stuck in the middle... I thought this was going to be a King killing ground but the guys who have used and own Hopes all have valid points.

I would prefer to take a hammer to a £125 Hope hub than a £350 King hub if I have to service them myself.

The one thing I've learnt with this thread is that it's fairly simple to service these hubs yourself.


----------



## Iggz (Nov 22, 2006)

*what the hell are you talking about*



Santa Cruz Bullit said:


> DT Swiss is more a trust issue... out of six riding buddies four have used DT's and all have had problems here


You must ride with some morons if they can't service a DT hub or keep it running smoothly... honestly now it's a piece of cake

Quite possibly the most simple and thoughtfully engineered ratchet system for a hub... I've had 240's and 440's and they've been nothing but flawless and incredibly fast rolling/no resistance

Hope's... hopes are pretty shitty... I mean you get what you pay for. I've had 2 Pro2 Singlespeeds and 3 out of 4 pawl springs broke in both hubs. My Pro2 9spd bearings disintegrated. You get what you pay for.

King's.... well my 20mm ISO and SS ISO have been nothing but perfect so far. The adjustable bearing preload collar on the rear SS hub has come loose a few times even after locktite but it's been good for the past few rides so no complaints really... Just make sure you overhaul them every now and then, they're a pricey investment you don't want to f*ck up.


----------



## lalocotequinta (Mar 28, 2007)

If it helps on anything, the only rear Hope hub I still use is 3 years old, I can't remember when was the last time I serviced it (probably I never did) but it still goes strong. As I stated earlier, I don't like it because it is way too loud, but that's just a personal opinion. If it wasn't that loud I wouldn't mind to keep using Hopes instead of Hadleys.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Indeed. Hadley has better customer service and I think they are bit better engineered. I personally think that Kings are for Queens and they are too expensive for what they are...

At the end of the day they are fricking hubs!!!! Get something that is proven, works well, easy to service and that has great customer service.


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Iggz, (The Hub Slayer)

The coastline where I'm riding is a mixture of clays and volcanic rock... the dust from these rocks sucks.

Unlike my friends I wash my bike down, they don't.

Don't kill the messenger here... I've seen first hand DTs fail.

What I'm interested in is your Kings and your failed Hopes... how heavy are you and how did you manage to kill so many hubs...

You are right about not wanting to f-up the Kings matey... that would be bad.

Her indoors would cut my plums off if I told her I'd screwed the Kings up with a hammer or some dust !


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Tacubaya,

My problem is that in the UK Hadleys just dont even exist... no one imports the 20mm or 150mm into the UK so that means no parts.

No pun intended but I know they call it the pond... but it's a f***ing huge pond and I'm the wrong side of it.

I've seen the reviews of the Hadleys and they seem to be well made, which makes being in the UK even more anoying as I may well of given them a go.


----------



## lalocotequinta (Mar 28, 2007)

Hey SCB, I've ordered a lot of stuff from CRC and usually it doesn't take more than a week to get my goodies, I also am at the other side of the pond from you in MA. I have never had to deal with Hadley's CS but if you have a problem with your hubs, or need parts for/from them, you just call at the number SMT gave you and I bet the people at Hadley will make sure you get what you need in no time. 

Good luck with what ever hub you end up.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

^^agree


----------



## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Santa Cruz Bullit said:


> and your failed Hopes...


I have lots of failed Hopes...just none of them involve bicycle hubs. I am getting ready to order some Hope Pro II hubs for my bike build and I am a fat ass. I will report in the months to come (too late for you but maybe to help others) how well they do for me.


----------



## Evo. (Feb 3, 2009)

CK all the way!


----------



## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

lalocotequinta said:


> Lelandjt already pointed out that the rear 150mm Hope shares the same shell as the 135mm, to me that sounds like a liability.


I'm a big fan of Hope stuff. My current rear Pro II hub is on it's second bike (having outlived 3 rims in the process!). I ride DH/FR almost exclusively, and I usually put the bike away wet, if you know what I mean...  . Yes they are loud, some people like that, some don't. For serviceability, they are very easy to take apart and work on, should not be an issue (and you being in the UK you can find parts at the supermarket...  ). 
The pawl springs mentioned by Iggz do break....they cost like 10 GBP for the 4 of them, I tend to replace them as part of a yearly rebuild anyway. It's no big deal, they are just little tiny steel springs, that's all.

HOWEVER - if I was building a 150mm rear wheel, I would look elsewhere for sure. No point having that wide wheel with the same narrow flange spacing as a 135mm...that would seal the deal for me. Yes, I cringe at the thought of spending that kind of money on the Kings....but they do seem to be a one-time only investment, from all I've been able to read on here...


----------



## zahgurim (Aug 12, 2005)

I run both Hopes and Kings on four or 5 different wheelsets.

My advice?
Mix it up. Run the Hope on front, and King with HD freehub body in the rear.

Best mix of lightness and reliability.


----------



## Jens_Fredrik (May 7, 2008)

zahgurim said:


> I run both Hopes and Kings on four or 5 different wheelsets.
> 
> My advice?
> Mix it up. Run the Hope on front, and King with HD freehub body in the rear.
> ...


Best tip so far! Light and simple Hope front hubs and the flange-width you need in the back with the kings.


----------



## hecticj (Jan 24, 2008)

No problems with Hopes they take a battering and are much more wallet friendly.....

I run the same config your after too (150mm rear etc) and I weigh 100kg and they've been faultless for 2 years after races, Morzine trips and so on.

Save yourself some money and spend it on your other half! At least then you can go out and ride more!!!!


----------



## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

The Hopes are stupid easy to service by the way. No special tools, you can basically do it using only your hands, and it's a stupid simple system internally, there's just nothing to fail. They are sealed incredibly well in my experience. I have only opened mine up once on their 4th year of riding regularly with no maintenance, and there was no evidence or water or dirt intrusion. I cleaned out the grease and replaced it, and I don't expect to need to open them back up for a few more years. The bearings are good quality and well sealed also. Everything inside is easily serviced.


----------



## Hangtime (Jan 25, 2006)

I have had both the Hope XC and Pro II hubs on different bikes and now run the King ISO HD with Fun bolts. For the budget minded rider the Hope are excellent. Sure they dont look as sweet as the King nor do they carry the price tag associated with the name. But if you have the cash and want something proven to work get the Kings. I will be building up a hardtail soon and the wheels will be Hope, they just work and will save me a few bucks.


----------



## rongarr (Jan 27, 2009)

Don't know about the service, never done it (even after two years of pounding).
No worries, I weigh 180 lbs.


----------



## rongarr (Jan 27, 2009)

Santa Cruz Bullit said:


> Thanks Rongarr
> 
> How easy are they to service... my worry here is that (1) I'm too heavy for the Hopes and (2) having watched DT's fail due to the rock dust here that the Hopes will too.
> 
> ...


Yeah, no worries..I weigh 180 lbs.
I guess everyone has their opinions (hence the reason for forums) but I've had
absolutley no problems with my Hope hubs. I'd buy them again in a heartbeat.


----------



## Shamrock1079 (Jun 4, 2008)

for me - the decision is Chris King.


----------



## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

I've had good luck with both Hope, both the 135 and 150 rr Pro II's. I weigh 185lbs and raced expert dh for a couple years with the 150, no maintenance, and no problems with weak wheels or bent/ broken/ cracked anything. Sure a wider flange spread can build a stronger wheel, but if you keep your spokes tensioned (at least at my weight) it shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

according to dropmachine.com, you should use dt swiss hubs.


----------



## JMUSuperman (Jun 14, 2008)

The Hope Pro II on my DT developed a bad creak with every pedal stroke after a few months of use. Drove me bonkers trying to diagnose it. Everything was tight and torqued to spec. The fix was to clean the cassette body where it contacts the free hub. I've never had that with any other hub, but as soon as I did it the creak disappeared. It comes back every now and then and I just pop off the cassette and clean that area and sure enough it's gone. I've also broken the axle body in the same hub, which made me think that maybe they weren't up to the task of me throwing my 220 lbs self off of drops. That said, they've been stupid simple to service and even replace said axle body. I have a set of Hadley's on my DH bike that are nice and quiet, but to tell you the truth I don't really notice the difference between the engagements. I've ridden both sets on the same trails. Even given my issues with the Hope rear, I'd buy it again.


----------



## sprintcarblue (Sep 29, 2008)

I don't really get the whole problem with engagement on hubs. I've ridden profiles, chris kings, dt swiss, shimano, spinergy hubs...I really honestly don't feel like it makes a bit of difference in my riding. Riding BMX I've ridden freecoasters with a 1/4 crank slack in the hub and had just as much control as my profile with 64 engagement points. It's all how you make adapt to whatever you're riding. I guess I am just not that picky. 

I currently have a hope pro II on my mtb, and I love it. It's a really simple hub. It seems well built. I always keep an eye on my stuff, I don't really like waiting until something hand grenades on me. The price is much better than a lot of other selections. The hubs not THAT loud. Just not stealthy. Just put a dab of grease on a pawls if you're that insecure about it. 

Realistically, I think you'll be happy with any hub you purchase.


----------



## Santa Cruz Bullit (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks to everyone above

Saturnine's link to dropmachine is below

http://www.dropmachine.com/Reviews/...y-industry-nine-dt-stealth-and-hope-a581.html


----------



## Redhit (Jan 24, 2004)

Both good hubs. I love the sound of Chris King hub. Super burly, and strong. If you concerned about weight the Hope is actually lighter, again if thats what your into.

Like i said either way you go, you will have amazing hubs.


----------



## Nomad Ninja (Sep 2, 2007)

Suggest you only take opinions fom people that have had King and Hope wheels. Having said that, my first custom wheelset were kings. My 2nd bike had Hopes to save some money, and that was it! Hopes are a great value, price and performance wise, but they are no where close to Kings. Period! Once you get a taste of instant engagement, it's over! Everyone else is justifying their regrets for not spending a little more to get the kings. What I do like about hope is they're versatile. 15mm, 20mm, qr, you're covered. King? Limited based on ld sd hub and a little more pricey. If you got the cash go for the kings you won't have to worry about wanting to upgrade, unless you want a different color.


----------



## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

SC Bullit, 
If you're looking for a US dealer on Hadley, I get mine here


----------



## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

You should try SDHs forum, as most there are UK based riders, and a LOT of them rider hard, usually when having threads like these it ends up with Hope being the best choice if your on a budget.

If you want the bling, get king. 

But there is no real reason to get King over Hope, esp not if your in the UK.


----------



## kipdrunner (Aug 9, 2007)

Iggz, if servicing DT hubs is so easy for you than what is the big deal about putting new pawl springs in the Hopes once in a while?
I haven't used the DTs yet so I don't know if that system is inherently easier or whatever but pawl springs are no good reason to call Hopes shitty.


----------



## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

Well after reading some of this ya got somehard choices its very much personal experience!

my 2c if on a budget Hopes, that said for a 150mm rear x 12mm axle

Hopes as said do use a 135mm flange with 150mm spacing to achieve the 150x12 rear end this creates a weaker rear, so why go for a 150mm rear end frame, counter productive don;t wimp out on ya frame [Bullet is awesome] and second never wimp out on ya wheels.

You can carry less bling in comps brakes and stuff is so good now, cut out carbon c r a p or any other high cost comp and choose wisely and put the savings into the hubs rims and build.

Hadley's& Kings!

Kings and Hadley's undisputed in my book if you like Blingy looks then Kings maybe your choice!

Hadley's are every bit as reliable and have the longevity, note for cost vs Hope, the cost actually comes back to you the longer you have these hubs, you won;t need to upgrade these years down the track.

Hadley even if you have no supplier there's at least 3 good places to buy online in the US, Go-Ride #1 you would probably get your Hubs and parts as you need em quicker form them than you would from your LBS to importer to you if ya had one anyhow!

Its exactly like that here, when I want my hubs here I'm told 6months wait, I can have em here from the US if in stock in a few days if not a few weeks and half the cost incl shipping and tax.

Kings do not drag once broken in it takes a year then pull em down and service them they will be better than new, also depends if you continue to run the stock grease which is thick and break in grease, you can run 10wt oil and they are super slick just service em a bit more regularly, which is still half that of most others listed here.

Weight on Kings or Hadley's Kings that one made me laugh they are light WTF lol.

Only neg for Kings is they are a bit more than even Hadley's, Kings Ring Drive is the best engineered design period though but Hadley's execution of a std design and quality can match it at a high but better cost.

Kings let down is the std alloy cassette body, get the steel upgrade!

Hadley's come std with a Ti cassette body, 72pt engagement is the same but is drag less from new and class, mine are .

KIngs flange width in 150x 12 is a little bit off for some 150mm frames and can cause some fit and alignment issues on some frames not all, the Hadley flange is a true DH design Ive never heard this and on some of the frames King have had issues Hadley's have not.

I like the understated ano look of Hadley's over Kings, I'm not a show pony, and don't like Maggpie's :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


----------

