# 2015 24" wheeled bikes - anyone know the weights?



## DWDW (Oct 7, 2005)

2015 looks to be a promising year with the release of some new 24" wheeled bikes. 

i'm a father of three looking to get some new bikes next season. My oldest son has a 2008 Specialized Grom Hit. It is a great bike, but we felt it was too heavy for cross country use and ended up buying and upgrading a hardtail to use as well. 

I am hoping for my next 2 kids to get 1 bike they can use for everything. 

The new Transition Ripcord, Norco Fluid 4.3 and the Spawn Shojo look promising, at prices I can stomach (sort of). The Lil Shredders are sweet, but a bit rich for my blood. 

Does anyone know the weights for these bikes? I don't want to get into the upgrade game to lose weight. it always ends up to be more hassle and money than I anticipate. I imagine the Spawn is light, but a dually would be cool. 

Thanks


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## DWDW (Oct 7, 2005)

Update:

I sent a couple of emails for anyone interested.

Spawn Shojo is said to be "about 25 pounds." 

Transition said they weren't sure yet, and had to wait to March/April to find out since the one they have isn't the actual spec they are selling.

I haven't managed to get a hold of Norco. There isn't a way I could find to communicate with them. They refer customers to dealers on the website.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

DWDW said:


> Update:
> 
> I sent a couple of emails for anyone interested.
> 
> ...


If the Spawn is "about 25 pounds" for a 1x bike, then the others you listed I would add at least 3 pounds since they are full suspension and have really crappy and heavy entry level 26" Rock Shox forks.

Are you looking for a park bike or an xc bike? With all of these bikes they have just a 1x drivetrain up front, with the Specialized Grom and the Spawn Shojo having a 34 tooth. So climbing a 34x36 is going to be really tough on big hills.

Notice the crank length too. Spawn and Norco have 150mm cranks, whereas the Transition and Specialized have 165mm+. If you have an 7-8 year old or a shorter rider these cranks will need to be replaced basically immediately. Or at least I would.

All of these look like really great platforms, but will all require some upgrades to lose weight. Looking at the specs of each bike:

The Spawn Shojo ($1250) looks to me designed more as a "park" bike with the super short chain stays, 34 tooth 1x, burly aluminum frame design, and short 300mm seat post. Unknown rims and hubs, probably OE spec and heavy so you can likely drop at least a pound on some new wheels for xc riding if that is your goal. Tektro brakes are not lightest but it is the least expensive bike of the bunch at $1250. Schwalbe 1.95 Black Jack tires are probably nice and light. Lightest probably of all the bikes.

Specialized Camber Grom ($2200!!!!) looks like it was designed for a kid "in between" 24 and 26 "big hit" park bike. Long cranks, long top tube, super long 420mm chain stays, and a 34 tooth 1x front chainring. My bet is this bike weighs 28 pounds. Good luck to a 65 pound kid pedaling this bike uphill - weight and 34 tooth will not be ideal for xc riding out of the box. Wire bead tires on a $2200 bike? Really?

Norco Fluid ($1485) looks to have gotten it right with the Lasco 152mm crank and 32 tooth chainring. Lower spec Shimano 355 hydro's likely are very heavy, as is the 26" Rock Shox fork at 2300+ grams! Nice light rims, but SRAM hubs are 600 grams for the pair. They took nice light rims and paired them up to quite possibly the heaviest hubs. Chainstay length at 415mm, and I am sure the frame platform is solid but you can easily drop 3-4 pounds here with fork, brake and wheel upgrades. My guess is a 29 pound bike.

Transition Ripcord ($1699) is my favorite frame of the bunch with short chain stays but again it is built as a price point spec complete bike with a heavy 26" Rock Shox XC 32 fork at 2000 grams or more. Put in a nice light 26" race fork and you lose over a pound immediately. Same with X5 drivetrain and Shimano M396 brakes. Heavy stuff. Adult saddle and 165mm cranks! Wheel weight and quality unknown, never heard of Jalco 32 hole double wall rims. 32 tooth 1x crank, so a bit lighter but this isn't going to be a light xc bike to pedal uphill. Can we buy frame only? That would be nice. I would guess 28 pound bike.

Some take aways after reviewing spec of each bike:

Companies are dropping the front derailleur and small chainring from their spec but the weight isn't coming down or chainrings getting smaller. An example of a company doing this right is the Isla Creig using a 28 tooth.

New tires in 24" are Kenda 2.35" Kinetics(on Transition) and Maxxis Snyper 2.0" tires in both folding (on Norco)and wire bead (on Specialized)

Why are companies still using 165mm cranks on 24" wheel bikes??? Specialized, you guys should know better!


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for, but I have been looking at some 24" XC bikes for my kids. I'm going by memory but these are a couple that I had weighed at the LBS.

Here are the under $400 bikes I looked at:
Specialized Hot Rock = 29lbs+/-
Raleigh Cadent = 24lbs+/-
GT Aggressor = 29lbs+/-

The one that impressed me the most though is the Isla Beinn at 19lbs


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

Fargo1 said:


> The one that impressed me the most though is the Isla Beinn at 19lbs


This one? High quality lightweight children?s bikes from Islabikes










I'm not sure I would call that a "Mountain Bike" in its current form.


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

GSJ1973 said:


> This one? High quality lightweight children?s bikes from Islabikes
> 
> I'm not sure I would call that a "Mountain Bike" in its current form.


Why not? Other than lack of front suspension I think it looks like a nice setup. *What am I missing*? If you want a front suspension look into the Creig. It has the RST F1rst Air Shock and some other changes. But its twice the price.


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## oren_hershco (Mar 11, 2006)

GSJ1973 said:


> I'm not sure I would call that a "Mountain Bike" in its current form.


The Isla is more "Mountain Bike" than all the other bikes mentioned here, because the light weight will enable your kid to do some real XC riding. 
The most important factors for bike's performance is the type of tires, and how much air you inflate into them. If you dial these right, on a light bike, you'll get much better performance than the awkward "Dual Suspension" kid bikes.

Notes about suspensions:

1. Rear suspension, even a GOOD rear suspension, has a very big penalty in terms of weight and price. If your budget is very high, you can build a light dual suspension bike. If not, please consider the cons vs pros.

2. Front suspension forks, of the low- or even mid-range, are very heavy, and have a lot of friction. This means they hardly work at all, unless hitting a major bump. When not hitting a bump - you just carry the extra weight for nothing. High-end forks are really different - they stick the front tire to the surface, and let you "hover" over the terrain.
For a kid, the problem is even worse: they are lighter, so these forks will work even worse, and the weight penalty is more significant.
Again, if your budget is high enough, you can tune a good front fork to a kid's weight, and get good results. A bike equipped with a cannondale Lefty can work great, and it's a light fork, but are you willing to pay it's price?


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

Weight is not the only penalty against suspension either. Suspensions are also less effecient than a rigid bike. Instead of all your energy going to the forward motion of the bike, suspensions also absorb some of that energy.

I'm pretty new to the sport and don't know a lot of things. But, in my opinion these bike companies are doing a disservice to kids by putting heavy suspensions on everything.

I think these kids bikes with suspensions are designed by marketing departments. Not enginering dept and they do not take into consideration what will be best for the kids. Instead they are designed to sell to the kids on features. On the school playground, a full suspension Huffy is probably a better bike to show off than the Isla. But get the 2 bikes on the trails and see whcih kid is having more fun.

Thats not to say I think all the suspension bikes are bad. I love the Isla Creig and I think some of the other bikes listing here are amazing bikes. But to really utilize them, your kid probably would need more adavanced skills and strength than the average kid. If your kid is at that level and riding those kinds of trails, then these would be fantastic bike. But I wouldn't get a full suspension bike for a kid just so they can have a cushy ride.

Think about the trails you ride on. If you kid had to make a lap around one of the trails, which bike would they be faster on? The full suspension bike at 30lbs+/- or the rigid bike at 19lbs. Or maybe something in between. Every trail and rider is different. Thats something you will have to decide.

There is a discussion about that in this thread if anyone cares to join.
http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/shock-rigid-front-fork-kids-24-mtb-935099.html


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Weight is NOT the be-all and end-all as far as bike performance by any means, specially if you're riding anything beyond highly groomed trails. Overall speed is also not the be-all and end-all of defining what makes a bike the right bike for any given rider either. Sure, if you're dressing your kid up in spandex and having them line up for junior XC races every weekend, or doing lots of long rides with a good bit of climbing somewhere that tends toward the smooth and buff, a lightweight rigid bike might be great. But my kid would hate getting rattled around on the Isla for the short time it took him to destroy the wheels. 

Remember, XC race style riding not the only style of riding out there. And for most kids, it's the type they'll probably enjoy the least IME. Just like with adults; if I had to ride some superlight rigid XC style bike on the trails I enjoy the most, I would be of the opinion that MTBing sucks.


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

slapheadmofo said:


> Weight is NOT the be-all and end-all as far as bike performance by any means, ... Overall speed is also not the be-all and end-all of defining what makes a bike the right bike for any given rider either.


You don't own a bike shop do you? Usually its bike shops playing down the effect of weigth on a bike. However, I do agree to some extent. The point is to have fun. Some trails might be too rough for a rigid bike. Some bikes might be too heavy to pedal up hills.



slapheadmofo said:


> ... if I had to ride some superlight rigid XC style bike on the trails I enjoy the most, I would be of the opinion that MTBing sucks.


If I had to ride a super heavy suspension mt bike on the trails, and I had to push the bike up every hill, I would be of the opinion that MTBing sucks. I think its a matter of finding the right compromise and what your kid needs.

My kids only weigh around 40-45lbs. The typical kids 24" bike found at the local bike shop with a front suspension weighs 30lbs. Thats around 70% of the kids body weight. How fun would it be if you had to ride a bike that was 70% of your body weight? Thats my perspective. I would love to give my kids a front suspension. But at an additional 3lbs+/- that adds too much weight. Especially since the shock is likely too stiff to be of any benefit anyway.

As I said, it depends on your needs. I think the best thing to keep in mind is, which setup will give the kid the most enjoyment.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Fargo1 said:


> I think the best thing to keep in mind is, which setup will give the kid the most enjoyment.


I agree completely. 
I just bring it up because I find there is way more emphasis put on overall weight than necessarily matching a bike to a particular kid's style and skill level (at least in this forum).

IMO, for the level most kids ride and how fast they outgrow these bikes, spending a lot of money and/or time trying to knock off a few pounds isn't usually worth it. I do get that some people like to bling out their kids bikes, but it seems to me that the parent usually gets a lot more out of this than the kid. Sure, if you kid is riding or racing at an unusually high level for their age, it makes sense, but for most kids, it really doesn't seem to make that much difference. Just like w/ grown ups - rippers will rip, and the rest of us won't, no matter the bike.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

Fargo1 said:


> Why not? Other than lack of front suspension I think it looks like a nice setup. *What am I missing*? If you want a front suspension look into the Creig. It has the RST F1rst Air Shock and some other changes. But its twice the price.


That's why I said "*current form*" because it has 1.5" tires.

I think for riding to school and light bike trails would be fine. Wheels with 1.5" tires wouldn't last too long off road for most kids really "mountain biking" if you know what I mean.


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

GSJ1973 said:


> That's why I said "*current form*" because it has 1.5" tires.
> 
> I think for riding to school and light bike trails would be fine. Wheels with 1.5" tires wouldn't last too long off road for most kids really "mountain biking" if you know what I mean.


From what I saw on the website they will install whatever tires you want. So thats not an issue there. But if your riding really rocky trails I can see where a front shock might be nice. I just question how well those shocks work on most kid bikes. I see a number of threads on the forum with people rebuilding 26er shocks to fit 24" bikes because they are so bad.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

Fargo1 said:


> From what I saw on the website they will install whatever tires you want. So thats not an issue there. But if your riding really rocky trails I can see where a front shock might be nice. I just question how well those shocks work on most kid bikes. I see a number of threads on the forum with people rebuilding 26er shocks to fit 24" bikes because they are so bad.


Ah, cool that they have a variety of tires to choose from. I didn't see that.


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## DWDW (Oct 7, 2005)

Thanks for all the responses. I just read through them all. GSJ1973, you provided a lot of detail. 

Suspension is going to be a must for us. We split our time between trails and lifts/shuttles with some pretty bumpy terrain, hence why I am hoping to have full suspension.

Currently one of my kids rides a Gromhit for the downhill stuff, and a modified MEC hardtail for trails. We began with just the Gromhit, but after a Moab trip and watching him suffer pedalling it up hills we bought the second bike. I was hoping one of these new bikes would be a "do it all" bike for my next two kids.

I put a lot of time and effort changing up his hardtail bike, choosing and swapping parts, while looking for deals etc. Another task I was hoping to avoid. I still think I paid less for the 2 bikes with upgrades than i would for a new Ripcord or Fluid, although it would be close. Although I am getting the impression I would still be doing the upgrades on these bikes as well.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

DWDW said:


> I put a lot of time and effort changing up his hardtail bike, choosing and swapping parts, while looking for deals etc. Another task I was hoping to avoid. I still think I paid less for the 2 bikes with upgrades than i would for a new Ripcord or Fluid, although it would be close. _Although I am getting the impression I would still be doing the upgrades on these bikes as well._


Strong, light, cheap - pick two 

Yeah, if you want a nice light bike then pretty much all of those forks and wheels swapped to make them lighter and maybe a 30 tooth ring so they can climb hills with any type of success. Still I would want full gears, but we live in Denver metro where there are big mountains.


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## DWDW (Oct 7, 2005)

GSJ1973 said:


> Strong, light, cheap - pick two


I'm still part of that extreme minority that doesn't consider a $1500 bike cheap!

Thanks for responding, I do appreciate the advice. I managed to get a carbon steerer Sid for my the cross country bike my eldest rides, perhaps I will search for a couple more of those.


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## dlc (May 27, 2009)

This is Jackson Goldstones new Norco Fluid. It weighs under 25#'s with a zee build kit and fox fork. Not bad at all.





I have one ordered and will be building it towards a light enduro style bike. Hope to hit 23-24 pounds.


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## gddyap (Sep 29, 2011)

Commencal specs:
Ramones 24 24.2lbs
Meta HT 24 24.69lbs
Supreme 24 29.7lbs


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## bikebum (Mar 30, 2004)

dlc said:


> This is Jackson Goldstones new Norco Fluid. It weighs under 25#'s with a zee build kit and fox fork. Not bad at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can Jackson climb with the 1x drivetrain? Does he live where mtns are around? I'm in Golden, Co and want a bike amy boy can actually climb with. He's 7, and the 20 inch Mtn Bike is geared too steep.

DB bike's has a 24 inch sync'r model that looks sweet, but specked with 1x9 (32t front and 34t rear is the lowest gear ratio). I'm concerned this is too steep to get him up NTM (600 ft climbs).

However, the bike has a 12,090g weight (26.5 pounds), which is the average.

I may be able to get a 30t chainring. But I feel i should convert to a double chainring.

Is the 165 crankarm too long?
Is the gearing too steep? I'm riding 1x11 (30x42).

Thanks for any suggestions!


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## Fargo1 (Oct 19, 2012)

bikebum said:


> DB bike's has a 24 inch sync'r model that looks sweet, but specked with 1x9 (32t front and 34t rear is the lowest gear ratio). I'm concerned this is too steep to get him up NTM (600 ft climbs).


If its a 1x9 thats likely a standard cassette in the rear. Another option would be to swap it out for a 1x10 setup with lower gearing. Of course that also requires changing shifters.


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## bikebum (Mar 30, 2004)

Fargo1 said:


> If its a 1x9 thats likely a standard cassette in the rear. Another option would be to swap it out for a 1x10 setup with lower gearing. Of course that also requires changing shifters.


Interesting, with the 10 speed I could get the 42 tooth one-up for him. I'd have to change the derailleur as well...


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## dlc (May 27, 2009)

On a 24" I would just run it 1x with a 11-36 cassett with a 42t cog on the back. I think with a 24" wheel that is all the gear anyone would ever need. No way I would build a kids bike 2x. To much going on with one shifter much less too. Saves a pound going 1x too.


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## bikebum (Mar 30, 2004)

*gear ratio questions*

not exactly sure what gear ratios mean, but i think the smaller the number, the less distance it takes a bike to travel. maybe you can help me put this into perspective.

front chainring size first, rear largest cog second, then some factor. i did not find a way to input the 24 inch wheels.
32x42 0.8 with 1x10 conversion and one-up 42t setup
22x34 0.7 most 24 bikes have this as the lowest
30x42 0.7 lowest possible setup
32x34 0.9 (this is stock for the diamond back 1x9 drivetrain)

my question is how muck does one tenth mean for little kids?


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## dlc (May 27, 2009)

A 30x42 would probably be too low for most kids. I think a 32x42 would be perfect. That would feel around the same as a 22x36 on a 29er.


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## Trailcraft Cycles (Sep 6, 2014)

bikebum said:


> Can Jackson climb with the 1x drivetrain? Does he live where mtns are around? I'm in Golden, Co and want a bike amy boy can actually climb with. He's 7, and the 20 inch Mtn Bike is geared too steep.
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions!


bikebum,

Wow, Jackson is a tremendous rider! Check out his videos! With the full Zee component spec, 165mm Zee cranks and 1x setup he's more of a downhill gravity type of rider.

From local experience (I am an hour north in Fort Collins) a 1x setup and 36 tooth max cassette tooth size wouldn't make it too far out of the parking lot where we live in Colorado before walking and pushing happens. I can tell you the reason I started Trailcraft Cycles was the lack of proper 24" bikes available, inadequate gearing, and overweight components when building our son's 24" bike. Most are eliminating the front derailleur to shed weigh, though are still in the 24+ pound range with heavy 32 spoke wheels. The exact place you don't want added weight. And a 32x36 gearing setup which, quite frankly doesn't motivate kids to really ride aside from flats and downhill. Unless you really are riding bike parks a lot (Trestle Bike Park at Winter Park as an example) full suspension adds a couple of extra pounds and is not necessary for a 7-11 year old.

Granted some don't ride in this terrain or can't image their kids riding in this terrain, it is super common for us on the front range and the norm. All kids really need is a lightweight, fully geared bike they can actually ride uphill. In Colorado (or anywhere with significant hills) it is way better to have lower/proper gearing than to have a 1x setup which might be a pound lighter, if even that much.

30x42 might work for many areas, but _even with a 22x36_ my son still walks some areas, and he is a strong rider at 10 years old. The below pics are from yesterday climbing Horsetooth Mountain Park with his dad, in 22/36 gear. 6500 feet to 7400 feet in 3 miles. I've thought about even trying a 42 tooth with a 22t granny just so he can stay on the bike longer around here and spin. Once he (or any kid we've ridden with) gets off and starts walking, frustration sets in pretty fast and can be a ride-ending experience just minutes into a ride. Leave the 1x for the parks or flat trails and go with a 2x geared setup if you can. Kids are smart, learn super fast, and love to shift gears.

If you (or anyone) are ever up in the Fort Collins area, feel free to demo a Trailcraft! We would love to take you on our local trails.

Hope it helps! 
Happy Trails, Ginger


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## bikebum (Mar 30, 2004)

Trailcraft Cycles said:


> bikebum,
> 
> Wow, Jackson is a tremendous rider! Check out his videos! With the full Zee component spec, 165mm Zee cranks and 1x setup he's more of a downhill gravity type of rider.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the follow-up regarding the 1x drivetrain! Your bikes are definitely the ticket! Great work! I'll be a customer for sure, probably in early spring!

You guys should hold a demo day, if you don't already!


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