# why do I have horrible luck with chris king headsets?



## BlackSpanker (Jan 30, 2009)

they are supposed to be the best. but I cant ride 2 days without mine creaking incredibly loud. I had better luck out of two run of the mill sealed bearing races in a reducer cup. The noise of the CK amplifies in my Orange frame. Its so annoying. I keep the cups greased on installation, and the bearings greased, and it sounds like **** everytime I ride.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Judging by your post count I would say you spend too much time posting.....

What fork are you using? Certain you have enough clearance on to of the stem to preload it properly? Any chance the headset is ovalized?


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

cause chris queens suck.,....get a dh pig


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

006_007 said:


> Judging by your post count I would say you spend too much time posting.....


fake....with 28 post how they do that


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

BlackSpanker said:


> they are supposed to be the best. but I cant ride 2 days without mine creaking incredibly loud. I had better luck out of two run of the mill sealed bearing races in a reducer cup. The noise of the CK amplifies in my Orange frame. Its so annoying. I keep the cups greased on installation, and the bearings greased, and it sounds like **** everytime I ride.


It's because they are not the best. Back in 1999 and before when most bikes had much less travel the CK system worked ok, but today's bikes are beyond what it is capable of handling. Aheadset (later bought by Cane Creek) had/has the patent for the compression ring that keeps the headset tight and not rocking round. Unlike every other company out there, CK refuses to pay to license the patent and use this system. CK attemps to acheive the same by putting an O-ring in there to take up the slop, but O-rings flex, the headset then moves, creaks, sometimes loosens, and the fork steerer can actually become scored due to the movement. This was not apparant or much of an issue with a short-travel XC bike, but with today's big SC and DC forks it's a big issue, and you're far better off with a different headset.

Sure, CK has great bearings and a 10yr warrenty, but if the damn thing doesn't even stay tight due to the design it doesn't matter.

If you want simple cheap and durable, get an FSA pig. If you want more bling, get one of the higher end FSAs or Cane Creeks. Some of the lower products made by both manufacturers sometimes doesn't hold up as well as CK, but the higher end stuff is pretty nice and durable.


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## readingracing (Mar 1, 2006)

I have a set that goes back to 01,and now on it's third frame.same bearings still tight never creaked.I ride three to five times a week all year long.


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## karpiel666 (Jan 7, 2005)

readingracing said:


> I have a set that goes back to 01,and now on it's third frame.same bearings still tight never creaked.I ride three to five times a week all year long.


Got mine around the same time, has been on 5 bikes. K2 proflex with a DC, kona stinky with a monster T, azonic aliminator with a 888+shiver+monster t, banshee scream with a monther t and now a kona cowan. Zero play, no noise, smooth as ever.

My FSA pig was used maybe 10 times on the cowan before it felt like crap.


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## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

maybe they don't make em like they used to...

or maybe they do which could be another problem

I think SMT is jealous of that guys post count, I guess if you can fake post counts then smt waisted a hell of a lot of time posting "nice"


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

what jayem said.


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## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

I've had a King on my bike for 5 years now with no creaking, issues or problems!

(Oh wait, I forgot to mention it's on my cyclocross bike I use for commuting and only ride maybe once a month...)

Yeah, What Jayem said...


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Uncle Cliffy said:


> I've had a King on my bike for 5 years now with no creaking, issues or problems!
> 
> (Oh wait, I forgot to mention it's on my cyclocross bike I use for commuting and only ride maybe once a month...)
> 
> Yeah, What Jayem said...


x4, LOL! Save the Kings for the trail bikes.

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## karpiel666 (Jan 7, 2005)

This is from the CK website.



> The 'scuff washer' is intended to go between the bearing cap and stem or stem spacers to help offset the effects of unfaced stems. It will help reduce the adjustment problems and creaking commonly caused by unfaced stems.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

mmm becks make me speak gooder 



SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> fake....with 28 post how they do that


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

karpiel666 said:


> This is from the CK website.


Yep, it's a BS solution for CK not using a proper compression ring. The creaking is due to CKs system in the first place. What the hell is an "unfaced stem"??


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Yep, it's a BS solution for CK not using a proper compression ring.


cmon dude, I dont wanna see you get banished like JC. And Napoleon.


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## karpiel666 (Jan 7, 2005)

Jayem said:


> Yep, it's a BS solution for CK not using a proper compression ring. The creaking is due to CKs system in the first place. What the hell is an "unfaced stem"??


I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if mine has lasted simply because of the machined top crown on the monster t being super smooth and level, it has been used with the monster t for 95% of it's life, I have never used a scuff washer on mine. Seems unlikely though. It wasn't exactly used lightly either.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

karpiel666 said:


> I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if mine has lasted simply because of the machined top crown on the monster t being super smooth and level, it has been used with the monster t for 95% of it's life, I have never used a scuff washer on mine. Seems unlikely though. It wasn't exactly used lightly either.


I'd take it out and double-check for marring on the steerer, but if it's been working and continues to, then that is fine. There are a lot of applications where it's not working these days, but that doesn't mean that for a few people there are still no issue.


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

Had a 1.125" then a Devolution, and now thats a full 1.5". No creaks, no loosening, no problems.

Ran them on my Orange 5, My Intense Slopestyle and soon my 951. Brilliant.

Say what you want about the design, there are many, many people who've never had a problem with Chris King headsets. And that scuff washer _does_ make a difference, i had a friend whos 223 creaked, and he got a spare scuff washer which fixed the problems.

An "unfaced stem"?? is basically referring to lesser tolerances on stems. Same as you'd get your headtube faced, you should get your stem faced for a perfect fit. Some cheap stems are utterly crap and not perfectly flat/level, this can cause creaking i guess.

Call me bias if you want, but if i am its because they have worked flawlessly for me for over 2 years with minimal maintenance.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Orange-Goblin said:


> Had a 1.125" then a Devolution, and now thats a full 1.5". No creaks, no loosening, no problems.
> 
> Ran them on my Orange 5, My Intense Slopestyle and soon my 951. Brilliant.
> 
> ...


The scuff washer definitely helps - always my first suggestion to those with CK creak problems. But every time I don't "nail it" on big drops with my M3 its creak-o-rama again. Bottom line: Poor design for DH/FR.

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## RYAN E (Jan 11, 2006)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> cause chris queens suck.,....get a dh pig


DH pigs are strong headsets but not long lasting. They cant go a couple months without felling like crap. My King headsets have been running perfect for a couple years. With the King, If u dont have the plastic spacer above your bearing top cap, its going to make weird noises.


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## Tim F. (May 22, 2006)

006_007 said:


> mmm becks make me speak gooder


He's hammered! LOL!:thumbsup:


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## Tim F. (May 22, 2006)

I've been running the same CK headset for over 10 years now, and never had a problem. Its been installed over seven times with a hammer and a block of wood, and removed the same way. It's been used year round on my M1/Fox 40 for over 3 years now. No problems, no creeking.

Also, now that SMT has given his endorsement, I'm going to go out and buy their bottom bracket!!rft:


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

I've had the headset for 5 years or so. I do not use the scuff washer. I've never had creaking.


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## oakhills (Mar 30, 2004)

*no creaks*

on my 4th frame with same headset....All 8+ inch dual crown bikes...No scuff washer, no creaks....

Maybe installed incorrect? I have been running CK for 15 years, and never had a problem...

I hope you figure out what it is!


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Jayem said:


> What the hell is an "unfaced stem"??


It's exactly what it says. A stem with a lower surface (which contacts the headset spacer) that has not been faced off parallel, usually due to a powdercoated finish. That's why the nylon spacer goes there. Anything but a precision machined stem won't sit flush against the top-cap.

Look at the upper crowns for all modern DC forks. Cast with post-machining for the slots, then either PC'd or ano'd, then clearcoated. 3 ways for the contact surface not to be parallel.

I've never had a used King headset that stayed quiet. I've never had a new one that clicked. If you set them up right the first time, and don't ride them loose and keep that scuff washer in there, you'll be ok. Once they start clicking, they never seem to shut the hell up.

I'm beginning to realize that pressing a headset into a frame should be a one-time event to prolong the frames lifespan, and that headsets should never ever be pressed fitted more than once. I think I'm just going to put a King Steelset in every new frame I get from now on, simply for the insertion depth.


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## RYAN E (Jan 11, 2006)

DHidiot said:


> It's exactly what it says. A stem with a lower surface (which contacts the headset spacer) that has not been faced off parallel, usually due to a powdercoated finish. That's why the nylon spacer goes there. Anything but a precision machined stem won't sit flush against the top-cap.
> 
> Look at the upper crowns for all modern DC forks. Cast with post-machining for the slots, then either PC'd or ano'd, then clearcoated. 3 ways for the contact surface not to be parallel.
> 
> ...


Oh, so you have a problem with your insertion depth. I hope your girlfriend doesn't mind.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

RYAN E said:


> Oh, so you have a problem with your insertion depth. I hope your girlfriend doesn't mind.


She doesn't mind. Your gf did though. She said "OW!"

Guess she isn't used to such things...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

DHidiot said:


> It's exactly what it says. A stem with a lower surface (which contacts the headset spacer) that has not been faced off parallel, usually due to a powdercoated finish. That's why the nylon spacer goes there. Anything but a precision machined stem won't sit flush against the top-cap.
> 
> Look at the upper crowns for all modern DC forks. Cast with post-machining for the slots, then either PC'd or ano'd, then clearcoated. 3 ways for the contact surface not to be parallel.
> 
> ...


Well, I know the theory of an "unfaced stem", but in 15+ years of mtb I've never had any such issues and I think it's more to do with the CK headset rather than some overall problem with stems. It just sounds wierd due to it being "critical" with the CK headset. With other headsets you just tighten it down and even if it's scuffed a little it's not going to make any difference. Again, that scuff-washer design is flawed. Sure, it works sometimes, but it's going to flex and move to some extent, and the fork steerer is not going to say in one place as well as if a compression ring was used. That whole "if you set it up right the first time" is a little rediculous given the flawed design. Again, it works sometimes in some situations, but it's going to move as well, it's going to creak sometimes, and it doesn't have anything to do with "setting it up right", it has to do with the design.


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## Sghost (Jul 15, 2008)

Ive noticed a lot of people that complain of creaking and loosening, don't have a headset spacer between the headset race and the next contact point. Either the stem itself or the bottom of the top crown.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Well, I know the theory of an "unfaced stem", but in 15+ years of mtb I've never had any such issues and I think it's more to do with the CK headset rather than some overall problem with stems. It just sounds wierd due to it being "critical" with the CK headset. With other headsets you just tighten it down and even if it's scuffed a little it's not going to make any difference. Again, that scuff-washer design is flawed. Sure, it works sometimes, but it's going to flex and move to some extent, and the fork steerer is not going to say in one place as well as if a compression ring was used. That whole "if you set it up right the first time" is a little rediculous given the flawed design. Again, it works sometimes in some situations, but it's going to move as well, it's going to creak sometimes, and it doesn't have anything to do with "setting it up right", it has to do with the design.


No, it has everything to do with setting it up right. I could even draw it out in a diagram for you, but I'm nowhere near that motivated.


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

I don't either but have never had a problem. Headset top race, scuff washer then Sunline stem.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Jayem said:


> There are a ton of applications where it's working these days, but that doesn't mean that for a few people there are still issues.


That's more like it.

250+lbs 14 years on one and 11 on the other. 4 frames for the older one and 2 for the newer one. No problems here! CK is the one product you shouldn't have any issues with. Fahn


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## bog (Jun 3, 2004)

The design is definitely not based on sound engineering principles. The o-ring allows movement between the upper cup/bearing/cap and the steerer tube. As people have mentioned, this problem is exaggerated when used with a longer travel fork or even a 29 er fork. The "scuff washer" is exactly what it says it is so don't believe King's BS about facing stems. Yes, this will help but won't always compensate for the poor design. The washer simply stops creaks by adding a lubricated surface between the stem and the headset top cap because the is always movement there. 
Cane Creek headsets rock especially the higher end ones.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

006_007 said:


> mmm becks make me speak gooder


what you talking about Willis???


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

been running Ritchy scuzzy lodgic sealed cartridge headset and it has been flawless.

by the look of this tread i will stay away from CK as it seems complete luck if it works or not.


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## Pedal Shop (Dec 14, 2006)

My guess, the headtube's been reemed out too much.


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## Tim F. (May 22, 2006)

Could be a cracked frame as well.


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## lifer (Feb 5, 2004)

Just got my CK headset back from a warranty rebuild. After 10 years and four frames, it started getting a little slop, and I'm only about 220 w gear. What a POS! The last 6 years its been on my Bullit. Oh well, guess I'll reinstall it and start looking for more problems in another decade


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## HubbaMan (Feb 3, 2004)

I'm with Jayem on this one. 

Rode with a CK for years, had an older Z1fr 5" fork, all was good and happy. I even had a SuperT on the same bike for a few years without any problems.

Bought a 36rc2 and all was sweet until I ran it in 6" travel, creak city. Picked up a Cane Creek 110 and life is all quiet on the fun front again  

IMO the pinch collar on the 110 holds the steerer in place regardless of the stresses, not so on the CK.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

HubbaMan said:


> I'm with Jayem on this one.
> 
> Rode with a CK for years, had an older Z1fr 5" fork, all was good and happy. I even had a SuperT on the same bike for a few years without any problems.
> 
> ...


The thing I can't understand is how people are trying to say this isn't a problem or it isn't a flaw. Sure, it's not a problem for some of the people, but it's a known and real issue. Go read the CK reviews for their nothreadset if you question it. Perhaps a DC fork's flat upper crown "holds" it in place to some extent, or perhaps your scuff-washer for your non-faced stem  , or you haven't hit things hard enough. Fine, but it doesn't mean there isn't a problem with it. Not setting it up right? That's just plain ignorance of the problem.


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## MDJ (Jan 21, 2005)

Tim F. said:


> Also, now that SMT has given his endorsement, I'm going to go out and buy their bottom bracket!!rft:


If you think the headsets creak a lot, wait until you try the CK bottom bracket. It makes so much noise you'll forget all about the headset.


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## MTBAlex (Mar 29, 2006)

MDJ said:


> If you think the headsets creak a lot, wait until you try the CK bottom bracket. It makes so much noise you'll forget all about the headset.


The solution to a CK creaky headset is to buy a CK bottom bracket!


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## BlackSpanker (Jan 30, 2009)

Jayem said:


> Not setting it up right? That's just plain ignorance of the problem.


exactly I am a mechanic. I think I can manage degreasing the frame cleaning the spot and putting some phils in when I install the cup. It takes a real expert to "properly install" a headset.....lol


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Out of 43 post there's only 4-5 people that had issues with CK's. I wonder...


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## GrampBredo (Dec 18, 2007)

I've got a CK headset on a 6'' travel bike, and my friend has a 15+ y.o. one on his 6'' bike (not to mention many others on lesser bikes). No creaking, no shot bearings, no noticeable flex, overall no issues with any of them. On the other hand, I was on a one-headset-a-season track with (properly adjusted) cheap Cane Creek and Ritchy headsets. They would die due to contamination from a few muddy rides. King's bearings are higher quality, and his sealing system is also better IMO.


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## miklorsmith (Aug 16, 2006)

I've been using CK headsets for 15 years, no problems. Not one. Ever. Right now I have one on my SC Heckler with a 36 on it and for the last three seasons my VPfree has one with a 66 or 888 depending on mood. No creaking.

Like anything, ymmv. If there was One Best Thing everybody'd buy it and the market would collapse, end innovation. Nobody wants that.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

BlackSpanker said:


> exactly I am a mechanic. I think I can manage degreasing the frame cleaning the spot and putting some phils in when I install the cup. It takes a real expert to "properly install" a headset.....lol


Many headtubes need to be faced and reamed. These require special tools. Any many people install headsets with a hammer and a block of wood rather than a headset press. Even if you use a headset press, there's a special piece to use with CK headsets.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

If you're so inclined, CK headsets can be modified to use a compression ring. There are some BMXers that used to do this.


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## BlackSpanker (Jan 30, 2009)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Many headtubes need to be faced and reamed. These require special tools. Any many people install headsets with a hammer and a block of wood rather than a headset press. Even if you use a headset press, there's a special piece to use with CK headsets.


mine was faced, and I used a park headset press to install. I put this on after I got a powdercoat done and faced the frame. what special piece is there to press CK headsets?


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

There's a special adapter that specifically fits their cups/bearings.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

http://www.pvdwiki.com/index.php?title=The_BEST_Headset


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## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

What does it mean if the crown race sits uneven? Can a crown be faced? And yes, my CK creaks.


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## GrampBredo (Dec 18, 2007)

stumblemumble said:


> What does it mean if the crown race sits uneven? Can a crown be faced? And yes, my CK creaks.


Most likely that it's not driven on correctly, or something is damaged. If the race sits uneven, then yes, it will creak.


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

Exception, ~rule.


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## MDJ (Jan 21, 2005)

So let me see if I got this right. You have to pay a buttload extra for a CK headset, then go buy special tools to install it, then baby it as you install it - and then hope it doesn't creak???

Hmmm... I've installed quite a few other headsets with the hammer and wood method and have never had to replace a headset or have creaks.

Now can we talk about the headache of the CK hubs??

BTW, I have 2 CK headsets now (came with the bikes) and don't have a problem with them. But I also ride with others who have creaky headsets and BBs, and on more than one occasion had to wait while they had to tighten their hubs.

BTW part 2, I have no idea why the BB is creaking but that was the only thing my buddy had changed and the immediately had creaking to match the headset.


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## GrampBredo (Dec 18, 2007)

You don't need to buy a special tool, its just easier to ghetto-fab a press with two blocks of wood and a carriage bolt.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Coarse threads on the threaded rods make installation a complete pain in the ass though.

If you can get some large washers, an M10 or M12 fine threaded rod and two nuts, and do ONE CUP AT A TIME, it's somewhat legitimate.


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## BlackSpanker (Jan 30, 2009)

fsa pig DH banged in with a block of wood and a hammar. Highly recomended! strong smooth and sweet! Life is good now


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

BlackSpanker said:


> fsa pig DH banged in with a block of wood and a hammar. Highly recomended! strong smooth and sweet! Life is good now


What poor frame did that go into?


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

So what have we learned here....Chris King's creak but Cane Creek's don't creak?


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## MDJ (Jan 21, 2005)

BlackSpanker said:


> fsa pig DH banged in with a block of wood and a hammar. Highly recomended! strong smooth and sweet! Life is good now


Works every time. Hammer and wood to get them in, hammer and screwdriver to get them out. As a bonus, you can use the same hammer and screwdriver to get the race onto the fork steerer nice and snug.

Or, you can spend $200 on specialized tools that you will use for 5 minutes every couple of years.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Or you can spend $10 on tools/hardware that will do it right, and not ever get a hammer involved....

Anyone putting in a headset like that needs to state their frame manufacturer and frame serial number so they can look back on this when it comes time for a warranty.


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## MDJ (Jan 21, 2005)

It's no fun without a hammer.

Seriously though, I don't know what the big deal is. I've done this 20-30 times on everything from road bikes to DH bikes and never had a problem. Sure, it's not the perfect method but if done right I don't see the problem.

DH bikes have beefy headtubes. Headset cups are thin and weak in comparison. You are not using a sledge hammer and one big whack, and it doesn't take much force to get the cup seated properly. The force applied to the cups/headtube using the hammer method is not much different than using a press. If done right is should go in the same as with a press. If not, you are either shouldn't be allowed to own a hammer or your frame already had a problem. 

It's all about technique not tools.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Impacting /= pressing. I seriously hope you do not work at a shop.


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## MDJ (Jan 21, 2005)

Impacting is not pressing, but if done right the net result is the same. There is no real difference to the cups or the headtube. I believe in using the right tool for the job, but you can also get the same result with different tools. People can use the ight tool and still screw it up. I would love to be proven wrong on this but no one has be able to yet.


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## DurtGurl (Dec 10, 2001)

LarryFahn said:


> Out of 43 post there's only 4-5 people that had issues with CK's. I wonder...


I've built up four 29ers over the last few years, all with CK headsets. All creak like crazy. I replaced the CK with a CC110 on the newest Lenz and she's now quiet up front. I plan to also replace the others but am in pause for a while after spending way too much on bikes over the last few months....


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

The right tool is something that presses. Hell, I've used a BUNCH of ghetto ways for pressing in headsets perfectly. Everything from a machinists vice, to a set of triple clamps and a stanchion for alignment with the starnut or a threaded rod. I've even MADE a press out of some thick washers, a threaded rod, and two nuts. I just do the same thing every time - one side at a time, perfect alignment, and liberal amounts of grease after I clean the surfaces with contact cleaner.

However I NEVER use a fvcking hammer. I've never seen it done legitimately and I never will.


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## BlackSpanker (Jan 30, 2009)

DHidiot said:


> The right tool is something that presses. Hell, I've used a BUNCH of ghetto ways for pressing in headsets perfectly. Everything from a machinists vice, to a set of triple clamps and a stanchion for alignment with the starnut or a threaded rod. I've even MADE a press out of some thick washers, a threaded rod, and two nuts. I just do the same thing every time - one side at a time, perfect alignment, and liberal amounts of grease after I clean the surfaces with contact cleaner.
> 
> However I NEVER use a fvcking hammer. I've never seen it done legitimately and I never will.


you would ride a KTM. I hope you have fun with your 2 drain plugs, 3 screens, two oil filters that need to be filled with the bike is on its side. Point is dude, sometimes there is more then one way to skin the cat. I didnt mean to offend you by saying I installed it with a hammar....its just a mountain bike, an orange 223 it'll be ok.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

BlackSpanker said:


> you would ride a KTM. I hope you have fun with your 2 drain plugs, 3 screens, two oil filters that need to be filled with the bike is on its side. Point is dude, sometimes there is more then one way to skin the cat. I didnt mean to offend you by saying I installed it with a hammar....its just a mountain bike, an orange 223 it'll be ok.


Haha I don't touch those ***** 4 strokes! I pour oil into my gas, keep the pipe sealed, clean the air filter, drain the tranny oil every 3 rides, and she treats me great. I think I spend more time bleeding the goddamn brakes than I do on anything else actually...

Funny though, even the KTM 4-strokes are FAR less maintenance than their competitors. Ever do a valve adjustment on one? Easy as hell - no shimming required.

It's a mountain bike, but it's your headtube for fvcks sake. There's no reason NOT to do it the right way.


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## BlackSpanker (Jan 30, 2009)

DHidiot said:


> Haha I don't touch those ***** 4 strokes! I pour oil into my gas, keep the pipe sealed, clean the air filter, drain the tranny oil every 3 rides, and she treats me great. I think I spend more time bleeding the goddamn brakes than I do on anything else actually...
> 
> Funny though, even the KTM 4-strokes are FAR less maintenance than their competitors. Ever do a valve adjustment on one? Easy as hell - no shimming required.
> 
> It's a mountain bike, but it's your headtube for fvcks sake. There's no reason NOT to do it the right way.


there is a good reason. I am at college and that is all I had available the block of pine worked well and distributed the force evenly without scratching or affecting the cups in any way. Have you ever ridden the 950/990 Super Adventure?? I about came myself after I rode it, it keeps up with sport bikes until 100mph and it is no slouch off road either. But then I started doing my research and it is quite quirky. I want one so bad, but I do alot of miles and I would need to change the fuel mapping to get around 50mpg....The ktm two strokes are sick but idk what you mean doing valve ajustments "no shims required" no two stroke to my knowledge requires shims let alone no two stroke has valves....but they are awsome bikes no dout, just if I was going to buy a 250 I would go with a less expensive jap bike. 
this guy had to shim his valves....seemed like a pain in the ass and he messed it up 
http://www.paochow.com/990.htm


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

I was referring to the 250f and the 450/505/530. They have a manual adjustment built in to them for the clearances.

The Super Adventures do look cool, but they're quirky. Remember, KTM is and always has been a motor builder, not a bike builder. Their 2 stroke motors are just amazing.

Check out the 690 offroad model though. That is one MEAN bike once it's set up right.

All the street legal 4 strokes have to get the EPA/smog crap removed to be considered a performance bike. Even the plated 450's are de-tuned quite a bit.


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## BlackSpanker (Jan 30, 2009)

DHidiot said:


> I was referring to the 250f and the 450/505/530. They have a manual adjustment built in to them for the clearances.
> 
> The Super Adventures do look cool, but they're quirky. Remember, KTM is and always has been a motor builder, not a bike builder. Their 2 stroke motors are just amazing.
> 
> ...


I dont believe they make a 690 offroad just a SM now. People were wining about the LC4 vibration....wah wah wah. try a drz400 if you want vibration thats what I say lol. I am going to buy me a 990 when I get the $$$ that is one fine bike, it has changed alot from the first years model.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Try an original CR500 if you want vibration. My 380 2T is bad enough as far as that goes, but the 500's were just silly.


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