# Generator-Powered LED DIY



## cormpus (Jul 4, 2007)

Anybody engaged in setting up lights to run off a hub generator? I have this nice Shimano dealie that pumps out lots of light (currently set up with a B&M primary and a really bright secondary). I have collected the materials to do 6 Dinotte-style DIY lights in 1" AL tubestock, and I have a few extra stars from the order. Can a buckpuck a/c do the trick? Or is it WAY more complicated than all that? BTW, total electronics newbie here.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Im putting together my MTB shimano hub dynamo driven quad R2 MR11 650lm light this weekend. 
See www.pilom.com for how to drive leds off hub dynamos.


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## Calina (Apr 8, 2008)

You won't need a buckpuck with a dynamo; these are used with batteries.

+1 - Check Martin's site at pilom.com ,

Myra Simon's site at http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/dynotest.html
and this one : 
http://www.nscl.msu.edu/~daniel/sreg.htm


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

Dyno is the way to go...

This is my dyno setup...& my hybird powered LED light

6 /Q5 cree, driven by a martin 6 LED auto switcher ( on the down tube ) or a Maxflex 2.0 via a 14.4v battery...



















Ktronik


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

*ktronik* wowwwwwwww, fancy that light!!!!!!!!

Now a few beamshots, please...

Greetings - Saludos


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Beamshots off a moving bike, not so easy! Once you get above 500lm ... its kind of irrelevant! Lots and lots of light!

Ktronik should just take off his sunglasses at night ... what you getting Kerry, 1000lm? :yikes:


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

znomit said:


> Beamshots off a moving bike, not so easy! Once you get above 500lm ... its kind of irrelevant! Lots and lots of light!
> 
> Ktronik should just take off his sunglasses at night ... what you getting Kerry, 1000lm? :yikes:


On paper it should be about 850lm (~500ma to each LED, Max) but with 10 deg optics, so punch (lux) is good & a warm tint...

If I trim the sides of the optics holders, I can fit 12 in that housing or 6 in the 4 LED housing...










& 3 in the 2 LED housing...










The next 6pack dyno light, will be in the 4 LED housing with 6/ Cree R2's...& a martin 6 LED auto switcher, for my wife, should be a _bit_ closer to 1000lm...

Got all the bits, just got to build it...

Ktronik


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## cormpus (Jul 4, 2007)

Cool lights. They sound bright, Ktronik. Are you building the Martin switcher yourself? Or is it available commercially?


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

cormpus said:


> Cool lights. They sound bright, Ktronik. Are you building the Martin switcher yourself? Or is it available commercially?


The basic circuit is VERY easy to build (manually switched) just a few components , the Auto switcher (user built) is harder as more parts...& are avab as a kit...

If martin has none I have 10/ 6 LED auto switcher & 1 3 LED auto switcher units...(user build)

I can supply housings or build up circuits for you if you can't...

Best

Ktronik


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## cormpus (Jul 4, 2007)

*4 or 6 leds*

Ktronik.... I have two of these housings...

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=355347 (see post #21 for pictures)

The housings hold two stars with square optics. It is all very delightful aesthetically.

Two years ago I built up a bada$$ wheelset with a shimano generator and open pro rims. Very sturdy. I have been running german lights with it. In order to mount the lights, I found a cyclocross fork that has both cantilever and disk brake mounts. And I made nice aluminum brackets to mount the lights to. THe lights are not very bright...but the setup...well...It all looks really nice. I could post some pictures when I find them. (as an aside to all you diy folks out there: aluminum works almost exactly like wood. It drills well. It bandsaws well. I used the heck out of an oscillating spindle sander (my new favorite too) and a scotchbrite cone attached to a mandrel on my bench grinder. The things are as shiny bright as my white brothers ENO cranks.

Anyway. Here is my new thought. I know that four leds would blow the german lights to smithereens. I would be interested in getting one of your circuit boards (already constructed) to run the four lights. Is it possible to run just four on the automatically switched martin circuit? Or do I need to put two more LEDs in the mix...possibly two more mounted on the handlebars? I could easily build the extra two, if need be.

Can you pm me with info about your circuit board and housing? THanks...cormp.


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

Hey cormpus,

You don't really need to buy anything, you have what you need already, for the basic setup, for 1-6 LEDs.. use the 2 / 2led units you have..

add

.two capactiors, 4 diodes... thats it...that gives you 1 power curve (set via cap) the auto switcher just change curve for slow riding...the MAX output with or without the auto switcher is the same.

So start with building a 'basic' circuit to drive your LEDs, then move on from there...this is the quickest, cheapest, get ya going type deal...& what a a lot of dynamo hub users, use to day...

See www.pilom.com for how to drive leds off hub dynamos

Ktronik


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Ok, got mine going.

4 Cree R2 LEDs and medium MR11 optic from cutter. 
Housing from Nightlightning. 
Brains from Martin. Dynauto switches between high power at high speed and *boost* at low speeds. 
Mount and Dynamo from the LBS.
I went with the older shimano dn70 because they had one in stock and I got a good deal on it. 
If I rode the MTB a lot or competitively I'd look at a newer model.

All I had to fabricate was the aluminium bracket between cateye mounts and lighthead,
and put a switch hole in the plastic cap that stops the steerer tube top.










Thats the on/off button on top of the steerer tube.
Heres whats inside:









My steerer tube has a taper near the bottom so the board wont fall through... capacitors hang below it. 
The dyno wires and LED wires run out the bottom (LED via connector).

And heres the business end:









Should put out around 650lm. 
:thumbsup:  :thumbsup:


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## cormpus (Jul 4, 2007)

Znom...This is very nice. How are you tensioning your headset without the star-nut bolt? Do you set up the stem first, then take out the star-nut and the put in your electronics and switch?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

On advice from ktronik I just hammered out the star nut. When I need to tension I'll get one of those removable expanding things that do the star nuts job. 
Electronics just slide out so no biggie.


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

*Coverted*

znomit: Fantastic set up! Makes most of rechargeable stuff from the big manufactures look obsolete. Keep up the good work.

I have found myself wanting to go down the path of the dynamo driven multi (6) LED "DIY" light, after years of frustration with failed battery cells, chargers & never seeming to have enough run time.

I am intend on using

•	Seoul P4 (U bin) stars.

•	A Doubled up "ashalot" design, as I aready have the LEDIL square optics in 5, 8 & 11 deg'.

•	A Shimano DH-3N70B or DH-3N80 hub.

•	A Martin dynauto switch of some type&#8230; in the rear of the light housing, to keep things compact.

There is one problem though... I have no Idea where to start when it comes to electronics...but I like the sound of Ktonics circuit auto switcher running approx. 910ma as described in a CPF thread below.

from my dynamo hub, I get 12.8w peak...into 3 series LEDs...up to 1150ma peak...using a series bi-polar cap before the bridge ref...in fact by changing the size of the cap you can get different power curves, for on-road I use a flatter curve peak of 910ma into 3 series cree LEDs...but with more boost down the bottom, so insted of the peak (1150ma) @ 40km/hr, you get a peak of 910ma @ 27.5km/hr...for off road racing I use, a bigger cap again...& get peak of 670ma @ 19km/hr...but as it is a flatter curve, I get only a 90ma variation, between 18km/hr & 30km/hr...so it looks pretty much the same, for most for the ride...


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

dazzat3 said:


> from my dynamo hub, I get 12.8w peak...into 3 series LEDs...up to 1150ma peak...using a series bi-polar cap before the bridge ref...in fact by changing the size of the cap you can get different power curves, for on-road I use a flatter curve peak of 910ma into 3 series cree LEDs...but with more boost down the bottom, so insted of the peak (1150ma) @ 40km/hr, you get a peak of 910ma @ 27.5km/hr...for off road racing I use, a bigger cap again...& get peak of 670ma @ 19km/hr...but as it is a flatter curve, I get only a 90ma variation, between 18km/hr & 30km/hr...so it looks pretty much the same, for most for the ride...


this is not from the auto switcher... it was before it was made... it uses VERY simple electronics... that any one can make...

See www.pilom.com for how to drive leds off hub dynamos


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Its not for everyone, but yeah its a great system. I do long distance stuff on the road bike and need all night light. The MTB is just for fun riding so I like to just jump on and go, with NiMH they need to be freshly charged so need to prepare the day before.

The good thing about the dyno is it only puts out 500mA. This is good because heating issues are essentially eliminated...especially since you always have cooling while the bike is running, and LEDs are pretty efficient at 500mA. The finning on the nightlightning housing is a bit over the top for 500mA, should work well for 1A when the bike is stationary. Ktroniks "uggas" are perhaps the ideal build for the lighthead. Simple lightweight and effective cooling. :thumbsup: 
I was just too lazy to do my own housing this time(oh, and this lady arrived on saturday which is a good excuse for being short on time!)

Martins page at pilom.com is a great resource, circuit 10 is a good place to start(and maybe finish, my road bike uses this), a manual switching circuit you can put together for 10-20$. Its pretty simple in the end. The auto switching is a bit of luxury for me.
The capacitors take up a bit of space so best to have the circuit remote from the LEDs. Hiding in the steering column is a good solution, but I use a small box taped under my aero bars on the road bike. 
The dyno is a fair chunk of money but long term should save over NiMH batteries and chargers (haven't priced the power).



dazzat3 said:


> znomit: Fantastic set up! Makes most of rechargeable stuff from the big manufactures look obsolete. Keep up the good work.
> 
> I have found myself wanting to go down the path of the dynamo driven multi (6) LED "DIY" light, after years of frustration with failed battery cells, chargers & never seeming to have enough run time.
> 
> ...


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

znomit: Congrat's on the new bub.

I'm convinced it's the way to go.

A dyno lightset could be considered expensive initally but long term it should work out much better value & its got to be better for the *enviroment* too.

It would also be a conveiniance thing for me as I like to get in a 60/70 klm training ride in before starting work at 8 am. combined with an 1hr ride home in evening & at this time of year its getting dark at 5pm. I tend to wear out batteries/chargers quickly charging 5 nights a week and invariably I will get distracted and forget to put the batteries on charge which means I miss out on a ride.

Ktronic: Which circuit from www.pilom.com did you use to achieve the *910ma*, was it circuit *8*,*9 *or*10* or something different altogether?

You also mentioned to cormpus that you have kits available & that you are also able to build up kits. Please pm me with any details.

I'd probably end up annoying Nathan down at Jaycar, Iso (Islington) for hrs trying to work through a parts list and how to put it together.

Any and all help appreciated.

Regards

dazzat3


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

dazzat3 said:


> I'd probably end up annoying Nathan down at Jaycar, Iso (Islington) for hrs trying to work through a parts list and how to put it together.
> 
> Any and all help appreciated.
> 
> ...


 iso eh....you in Newcastle Australia??? I am...I got all the parts & know how, maybe in your home town...

PM me with your email addy...

K

PS: after circuit 5 they are kinda the same... all I did is tweek my 'tuning cap' to the speed I use the most...


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

*Climbing on the bandwagon!*

I looked at all those websites, you guys are blowing me away!

I'm ready to buy a Shimano dynamo hub:

- Are 36H/6-bolt hubs available anywhere?

- Or is the 32H/centerlock all that's on the market?

PM me if you have a LED light kit that works with the dynamo hub (with prices).


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

pursuiter said:


> I looked at all those websites, you guys are blowing me away!
> 
> I'm ready to buy a Shimano dynamo hub:
> 
> ...


PM sent...

32 & 36 hole yes...but they come in center lock...you could buy an adapter (centerlock to 6 bolt) but would cost as much as a center lock rotor... buy the lastest hub if you can... better made, light & less drag... or if you can afford it buy a SON dyno hub... very nice...

K


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

ktronik said:


> or if you can afford it buy a SON dyno hub... very nice...


How is the Schmidt better than the Shimano? It's only an extra $100 and PW has it in 36H so I'd buy it if makes sense. (I'm a commuting Clyde so 36H is require for rear wheel, maybe not the front.)

edit: Just found some answers, the Schmidt hub has better efficency but cost 3X:

Efficiency at 15 km/h, Shimano=53% Schmidt=64%
watts to drive unloaded at 30kph: Shimano=2.2W, Schmidt=1.5W

I ordered the 32H Shimano from Harris, I hope it's in stock.....


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

pursuiter said:


> How is the Schmidt better than the Shimano? It's only an extra $100 and PW has it in 36H so I'd buy it if makes sense. (I'm a commuting Clyde so 36H is require for rear wheel, maybe not the front.)


Less drag & nicer made...same power... I poved out & went shimano...

K


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

ktronik said:


> Less drag & nicer made...same power... I poved out & went shimano...
> 
> K


0.7W will be good for my fat a$$. BTW, 0.7W is ~0.001 HP, that's one thousandth of a single horsepower 

Even if it only takes a tenth of an HP to go 30kph (75W), the difference in overall drag is 1%. Wind and rolling resistance will swamp that. Just to make it up, I'll use aero spokes


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

pursuiter said:


> 0.7W will be good for my fat a$$. BTW, 0.7W is ~0.001 HP, that's one thousandth of a single horsepower
> 
> Even if it only takes a tenth of an HP to go 30kph (75W), the difference in overall drag is 1%. Wind and rolling resistance will swamp that. Just to make it up, I'll use aero spokes


If you are racing you might want the flash hub. 
I used this speed and power calc to figure out what it cost me. Not much! In fact, the reduced fatigue associated with riding behind a wall of light probably means increased speed over the long haul.
:thumbsup:


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Harris has the new Shimano hub in stock, they're shipping it tomorrow. Gotta get a rim and some spokes, going for aero. :thumbsup:

Any idea of the hub's Efficiency when it's making 12W of LED power? Does it take 24W of energy to push the hub under load (50%)?


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

*New shimano DH-3N80*

The new shimano dynamo hub (German market) DH-3N80 is said to have 30% less drag with lights off then the previous model and it only weighs 490 grams making it the lightest dyno hub out there and at $165 delivered to Australia, it would seem like good value...certainly alot cheaper than a SON dyno hub.

http://209.85.171.104/translate_c?h...prev=/search?q=DH-3N80+++&start=30&hl=en&sa=N

Does anybody own one of these hubs? or have more info?


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

*DH-3N80 update*

I've just been down to my LBS and it found that the DH-3N80 is available through Shimano Australia with next day delivery for $165. Add $60 build + rim and you have the makings of relatively affordable "DIY LED" light that never needs recharging, infinite run time & no more issues with failed battery cells or chargers.

Ah! finally the perfect set up


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

nice...

Make sure they lace it correctly for a disk hub...as its hard to find good mechanics in newy 

off side, outside spokes trail forwards...& onside, outside trail backwards

DT 14/15g spokes are the go... if you get the right length spokes I can build if you like...

if you order your spokes from dirt works they can use a spoke calc to get the right length... if you have the extra $$ get 'prolock' nips...worth every cent!

you would be hard pressed to find a better wheel builder in newy than I...my wheel builds are quite famous in the Australia elite cycling world...

I don't wana wank on, I just want you to have a well build wheel...  

K


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

*Bottle dyno.*

Has anyone ever used/fitted a bottle dyno on a dually? Dyno hub no good with oversize 20mm front axle.


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

you would need 2 for the same power as a dyno hub... would look cool but...

Hey have a lock off BMX lever onto a cable pulling on or off the 2 bottle dynos... you would not notice the drag, when floggin it down a hill..(locked position for dynos ON, button release for dynos OFF)



K


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

*The build begins!*

My LBS should have the DH-3N80 dyno hub in on Tuesday, to start the build up of my new commuter wheelset.


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

Just been down to LBS to check out the my new Shimano DH-3N80....Surprisingly small/compact and very light...looks cool!

My rims and rear hub etc. should arrive from CRC soon. Would have bought thes items from LBS but they were not able to compete with CRC's prices.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

We've got the booster circuit running in SPICE, here's my hub(s)....all I need is some Cree compatiable housings, we've got ton's of Crees at work:


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

Looks like you'll end up with the ultimate low maintainance ride...with a dynamo lightset and 9spd internal gear rear hub...Nice!



pursuiter said:


> We've got the booster circuit running in SPICE, here's my hub(s)....all I need is some Cree compatiable housings, we've got ton's of Crees at work:


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

*Dynamo/Generator Build Bible*

I came across this thread which should help with any DIY Dynamo/generator powered light build. 
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=172636&page=2


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

cormpus said:


> Anybody engaged in setting up lights to run off a hub generator? I have this nice Shimano dealie that pumps out lots of light (currently set up with a B&M primary and a really bright secondary). I have collected the materials to do 6 Dinotte-style DIY lights in 1" AL tubestock, and I have a few extra stars from the order. Can a buckpuck a/c do the trick? Or is it WAY more complicated than all that? BTW, total electronics newbie here.


Interesting link http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/VBQgenerator3.html


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

cormpus said:


> Anybody engaged in setting up lights to run off a hub generator? I have this nice Shimano dealie that pumps out lots of light (currently set up with a B&M primary and a really bright secondary). I have collected the materials to do 6 Dinotte-style DIY lights in 1" AL tubestock, and I have a few extra stars from the order. Can a buckpuck a/c do the trick? Or is it WAY more complicated than all that? BTW, total electronics newbie here.


Have a look at Ktroniks new Dyno light and simple circuit...seen it working last night...It's impressive and throws out plenty of light even at a very slow walking pace.


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## iq2k (Jul 5, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> How is the Schmidt better than the Shimano? It's only an extra $100 and PW has it in 36H so I'd buy it if makes sense. (I'm a commuting Clyde so 36H is require for rear wheel, maybe not the front.)
> 
> edit: Just found some answers, the Schmidt hub has better efficency but cost 3X:
> 
> ...


:nono: 
well i'm no expert but i have 5 bikes and 2 of them have dynamo hubs,
now i don't know about the figures on paper but i can tell you that the apparent rolling resistance with the shimano feels knotchy & it has way more drag than the Schmidt & if you think otherwise then i believe youv'e never tried both side by side on otherwise identical bikes.
Personally igo for the best i can get if there realy is a difference.
If i cant afford then a couple of LED's in a shoe box will do.
Ps does anyone know how i could learn how to get upload pictures as above:eekster:


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2008)

iq2k, to add pictutes first click "Go Advanced", then you can click on the paper clip........and can someone tell me how to add a link?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

dweeby said:


> iq2k, to add pictutes first click "Go Advanced", then you can click on the paper clip........and can someone tell me how to add a link?


Just below the paperclip theres a ball with a chain link. Highlight your text to label the link and then click on that and insert your URL.
This is all just basic HTML so you can script yourself as you type.

Back on topic... Schimdt is teh sexy but you pay for that bling. If you're racing and have the dosh go for it. A couple of watts makes little difference otherwise.


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## iq2k (Jul 5, 2008)

znomit said:


> Just below the paperclip theres a ball with a chain link. Highlight your text to label the link and then click on that and insert your URL.
> This is all just basic HTML so you can script yourself as you type.
> 
> Back on topic... Schimdt is teh sexy but you pay for that bling. If you're racing and have the dosh go for it. A couple of watts makes little difference otherwise.


Sexy Sexy gimme sexy yeh yeh gimme cnc lights  i like it i like it.
gimme nice saddle gimme nice wheels gimme nice pedals:eekster: gimme pretty hemet.  
Cause i've done my fair share of struggle:cryin: & if i can get the nicer things in life i will:thumbsup: .
No more 14inch TV now It's 120 inches 
So what ever floats ya boat jo. 
*But most important, I'd lke to thank you for your kind tutorial* now i can clutter the site with my detruc i mean constructions.
Heres another creation i found on another site.
If only it could charge protected batteries safely:eekster: 
Dya think the world would be a better place with one of these in ya seat tube?:skep:
As we all use phones, hemet lights,gps or need backup lighting etc.:madman: 
I would love the electritech headed amongst us to have a look at the whole darn thing.:eekster: :eekster: :thumbsup:  
maybe even see if it could make it's way over here to good ole mtbr


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Wheel is built and running on my i-M9 commuter, need to make a headlamp now:


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

Nice wheels & commuter (bike) set up. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:.... not Familiar with a i-M9 but I like what I can see of it.  

What light housing/headlamp design are you thinking of going with?


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

I'm still trying to source a housing, I hope Heatstroke makes another batch.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

pursuiter said:


> I'm still trying to source a housing


I went with the small MR11 housing from nightlightning.co.nz. Very nice and a good price. You'll need to email them. It fits the quad or triple from cutter. :thumbsup:


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## heatstroke (Jul 1, 2003)

Sorry, still have not heard from the machinist yet. Right now I only have the numbers you quoted, I've not heard from others yet so I am not sure of the final quantity to follow up with.


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi pursuiter,

Here's the start of my light housing....I just have to fit LEDs and put together Dyno circuit.

It's based on "achesalot" design.....really easy to put together with just basic hand tools...hack saw, file & vice....good value too.... I used this design as I already had a number of Ledil square optics. Here are some images.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Woohoo! :cornut: 

6 LEDs? :thumbsup: 

Thats gonna put out some serious light


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

znomit said:


> Woohoo! :cornut:
> 
> 6 LEDs? :thumbsup:
> 
> Thats gonna put out some serious light


After seeing Martins circuit for driving six LED's, I just had to build one....I'm going to use Martins/Ktroniks "capacitor" modified circuit which should pump out 900 ma around 30km/hr :thumbsup: ....gotta love how a dynamo works.


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> Harris has the new Shimano hub in stock, they're shipping it tomorrow. Gotta get a rim and some spokes, going for aero. :thumbsup:
> 
> Any idea of the hub's Efficiency when it's making 12W of LED power? Does it take 24W of energy to push the hub under load (50%)?


I believe martin & znomit have done some calc's on wattage output required to drive/push a dynamo hub under load.....This link may help. http://pilom.com/BicycleElectronics/HubDynamo.htm


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

dazzat3 said:


> I believe martin & znomit have done some calc's on wattage output required to drive/push a dynamo hub under load.....This link may help. http://pilom.com/BicycleElectronics/HubDynamo.htm


Only measurements by me are seat of the pants stuff. 
Basic idea from experience and what I've read, hubs are 50% efficient at turning leg power into LED power. With lights off the drag is 2-3W ...ie they wont slow you down measurably with lights off.

Powering a 5W light is _maybe_ noticably, not sure. I didn't go with a quad LED on the roadbike because I didn't want to deal with the drag on all nighters and three was enough light. Don't be greedy. :nono:

I'm guessing I take 5W on low and 10W on high (to get 2.5/5W at the LEDs). I chucked it all into an online power calc and its much less than a kph. I probably gain back a kph from longer training rides, and less fatigue on the main event. :thumbsup:

There is a lot of other good stuff if you poke around pilom.com, Martin has put together a great resource(the dynamo equivalent of bikeled.org), also see :
http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/VBQgenerator.pdf


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

znomit said:


> Only measurements by me are seat of the pants stuff.
> Basic idea from experience and what I've read, hubs are 50% efficient at turning leg power into LED power. With lights off the drag is 2-3W ...ie they wont slow you down measurably with lights off.
> 
> Powering a 5W light is _maybe_ noticably, not sure. I didn't go with a quad LED on the roadbike because I didn't want to deal with the drag on all nighters and three was enough light. Don't be greedy. :nono:
> ...


znomit, sorry about dobbing you in.

pursuiter here is the links I meant to attach earlier. http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/dynotest.html and http://www.anothercyclingforum.com/index.php?topic=42552.0 these links might shed some light on the issue....no pun intended.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

1 HP = 750W

If it takes about 0.1HP to push a bike at 10mph (SWAGging it) then:

0.1HP = 75W

A 12W load @ 50% takes 24W

25W/ (75W+25W) = 25% of your pedalling load.

If it takes 0.2HP to push your bike along then the lights add 12% to your pedaling load.


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> 1 HP = 750W
> 
> If it takes about 0.1HP to push a bike at 10mph (SWAGging it) then:
> 
> ...


Pursuiter, a beautiful piece of work.:thumbsup: ......I don't have a power meter so I'm not sure what 24W, feels like to push.....regardless, I just see it as extra training and the body will adapt and before long you won't notice it anyway and as a added bonus, when you jump on your race bike you'll be faster..... regardless of how much wattage/load it takes to drive the dynamo, everybody says they're are not able to feel the drag of a hub dynamo, whether it be with a SON or Shimano hub.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

dazzat3 said:


> Pursuiter, a beautiful piece of work.:thumbsup: ......I don't have a power meter so I'm not sure what 24W, feels like to push.....regardless, I just see it as extra training and the body will adapt and before long you won't notice it anyway and as a added bonus, when you jump on your race bike you'll be faster..... regardless of how much wattage/load it takes to drive the dynamo, everybody says they're are not able to feel the drag of a hub dynamo, whether it be with a SON or Shimano hub.


The faster you are the less it matters because the wind drag ramps up very quickly over 20kph and you need a lot of watts to go a little faster, so taking off a few watts matters very little to speed. Most recreational cyclists probably do 150-200w not 75. Throw your numbers into the calculator I linked above to see the speed difference. I estimate my power based on fastest solo hour rides.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

900ma? Hmm... I wonder what the circuit would be if I was using 4 LED. Link to the circuit please?


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

mrbubbles said:


> 900ma? Hmm... I wonder what the circuit would be if I was using 4 LED. Link to the circuit please?


From what I understand the circuit should put out approx. the same mA output regardless of what number of LED's are being driven. The important thing is to run capacitor voltage approximately twice as high as the required voltage of your LED's, if possible for long term reliability....I may have live with replacing the odd 4700uF cap as I am not able to use anything larger within my light housing.:madman: .....I would have liked to use a 38V or 50V cap....but hey, I like living on the edge.:arf:

Ktronik has done alot of work with Martins dyno circuits, he is running both a six (hardtail) and three (29er) LED dyno driven lights. 
The following is his fine work;

Fullwave, 4x100uF, 3 LEDs (use 1 x 100uF Bipolar instead of 4 x 100 uF std capacitors if you are able to find one)

Speed V I P
4.0 km/h 7.69 V 3 mA 0.03 W
5.0 km/h 8.14 V 26 mA 0.21 W
7.0 km/h 8.47 V 50 mA 0.42 W
9.0 km/h 8.79 V 100 mA 0.88 W
12.0 km/h 9.16 V 170 mA 1.56 W
15.0 km/h 9.44 V 250 mA 2.36 W
18.0 km/h 9.75 V 350 mA 3.41 W
21.0 km/h 10.04 V 490 mA 4.92 W
23.0 km/h 10.24 V 610 mA 6.25 W
25.0 km/h 10.42 V 740 mA 7.71 W
26.0 km/h 10.50 V 820 mA 8.61 W
27.0 km/h 10.58 V 900 mA 9.52 W
27.5 km/h 10.62 V 910 mA 9.66 W
28.0 km/h 10.55 V 900 mA 9.50 W
30.0 km/h 10.34 V 740 mA 7.65 W
31.0 km/h 10.33 V 710 mA 7.33 W
37.0 km/h 10.14 V 630 mA 6.39 W
43.0 km/h 10.06 V 600 mA 6.04 W
54.0 km/h 10.00 V 570 mA 5.70 W

This link has all the guff http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=430051

Thanks K.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## sping (Jan 24, 2008)

dazzat3 said:


> From what I understand the circuit should put out approx. the same mA output regardless of what number of LED's are being driven. The important thing is to run capacitor voltage approximately twice as high as the required voltage of your LED's, if possible for long term reliability....I may have live with replacing the odd 4700uF cap as I am not able to use anything larger within my light housing.:madman: .....I would have liked to use a 38V or 50V cap....but hey, I like living on the edge.:arf:
> 
> Ktronik has done alot of work with Martins dyno circuits, he is running both a six (hardtail) and three (29er) LED dyno driven lights.
> The following is his fine work;
> ...


So is he taking Martin's circuit 6? I assume a non-polarized cap should roughly be half the size of the polarized ones in his table for circuit 7. He suggests only 2 polarized (+ resistor) rather than 4. What's the deal?

Any idea where's a good place to get a non-polarized cap (and other electronics) in the US? I get the impression digikey.com is ok, but they don't have the non-polarized.

I'm 5 minutes from MIT - I wonder where the electronics geeks here go...


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## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

I just ordered some from Mouser Electronics!

www.mouser.com

Can anyone explain how the bipolar capacitor actually boosts output from the generator? I've looked through all my electronics references but can't find a good description of what the bipolar cap affects.

On a different note, I made an effective standlight on my dyno-powered TripleCree by putting a 5.5V .33F Supercap parallel to one of the three LEDs. When you stop that one stays lit for a good while. Simple and cheap!


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

StevelKnivel said:


> Can anyone explain how the bipolar capacitor actually boosts output from the generator?


I think it's best thought of as a resonant tank circuit.


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

sping said:


> So is he taking Martin's circuit 6? I assume a non-polarized cap should roughly be half the size of the polarized ones in his table for circuit 7. He suggests only 2 polarized (+ resistor) rather than 4. What's the deal?
> 
> Any idea where's a good place to get a non-polarized cap (and other electronics) in the US? I get the impression digikey.com is ok, but they don't have the non-polarized.
> 
> I'm 5 minutes from MIT - I wonder where the electronics geeks here go...


Its based on martins, circuit 3 with different capacitors. I have only built a few battery powered lights myself but I have found this ciruit one of the easiest to get my head around.

Here is Ktroniks simple "dead bug" circuit....focus on drawing 4....notice which way the lines on the the Shottky diodes are facing. These diodes are like one way valves letting current in/through one way but not from the other (converting current from AC to DC).


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

*Build update*

finally got some spare time  ...and was able to do a bit of work on my Dyno light today   but this will be it for a week or so :madman: ....I seem to have a lot of commitments lately....here are some images


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi All,

I finally managed to complete my dyno light this weekend. Very happy with the results but six LEDs may have been a little over the top. 

The back of the house is about 12.5m from bike in the beam shot, this is just spinning the wheel by hand (approx.19/20 km/hr).

Thanks for your Help K.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

dazzat3 said:


> Very happy with the results but six LEDs may have been a little over the top.


Very tidy build, I like the black! :thumbsup: 
Yes, 6 is a little indulgent, especially on a roadie. Good stuff.


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## iq2k (Jul 5, 2008)

nice job


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi Znomit,

Thanks for the compliments.....This has to be the easiest build I done so far (not that I've done many) with the "achesalot design" and "Ktroniks" dead bug dyno circuit....Any newby could build this light light with out any drama's and with a reasonably low outlay.

I had always intended to build up a 26 inch dyno front wheel for my mtb but was holding off as I wasn't too sure how this light would perform but now I'm keen as after last nights the test, in the back yard.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Very nice, one of those would be great off road. Dose it stay bright enough at low speed for off road use?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Is it painted or anodized?
I'm doing a 6 led for the roadbike(2 MC-E, one narrow 4 in series and the other wide 2s2p so six equivalent led load) but will use martins circuit 10 and run in doubler mode most of the time(5W) with full wave 10W for the downhills. I find the current 3led very good at 5W most of the time but would like a little more on the downhills.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

yetibetty said:


> Very nice, one of those would be great off road. Dose it stay bright enough at low speed for off road use?


Yeti have a look at pilom.com. More LEDs= less light at low speed, pretty much goes out at 10kph with 6LEDs. But there is a way to boost low speed power, see circuits 8 -> you can get good light down to 5kph off 3-4LEDs (this is 100lumens) and double that at 8kph, while still getting the full power at higer speeds.

On the roadie triple I use circuit 10 so can manually switch to the low speed mode, only needed on the big hills or when slowing at intersections. On the MTB quad I use the autoswitching circuit 12. Yes there is plenty of light at low speeds with either of these.


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

znomit said:


> Is it painted or anodized?
> I'm doing a 6 led for the roadbike(2 MC-E, one narrow 4 in series and the other wide 2s2p so six equivalent led load) but will use martins circuit 10 and run in doubler mode most of the time(5W) with full wave 10W for the downhills. I find the current 3led very good at 5W most of the time but would like a little more on the downhills.


znomit,
It's painted with satin black enamel from super cheap auto (you have them NZ don't you???) anyway I'm sure any satin black spay paint should come up alright. I did have to use use the wifes hair drier to heat up the light housing before painting and also between cotes due to the cold weather.....After seeing trouties daft idea "not" I'm sure another build is not to far off, I've just got find me a front mech mount and hub and wait for the MCE to become available.

iq2k/yetibetty, 
Thank for the compliments on the light....I'm stoked with it and the best part is it was cheap and easy to build.

Ditto what znomit said with fewer LEDs and martins circuit 8.....or for similar results you could use Kroniks "dead bug" circuit and use a 200-500uf bi-polar capacitor for great off road performance....after using my light tonight on my daily commute I found it did fade below 10kph but this only happened when coming up to or taking off from a set off traffic lights, so was never a problem....but I did find when I stoped the light glowed for a while anyway similar to an old cateye for about a minute....A sort of quasy stand light.

BTW the beam shot is pretty accurate it really is that bright.:arf: :arf:


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

Ditto what znomit said with fewer LEDs (3/4) and martins circuit 8,10 or 12.....or for similar results you could use Kroniks simple "dead bug" circuit and use a 200-500uf bi-polar capacitor for great off road performance.


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

dazzat3 said:


> Ditto what znomit said with fewer LEDs (3/4) and martins circuit 8,10 or 12.....or for similar results you could use Kroniks simple "dead bug" circuit and use a 50uf bi-polar capacitor for great off road performance.


might have it the wrong way round, mate... 50uf cap gives way peaky curve, bad for slow speed....

100uf for on-road, 200-500 for off road, works for me

hey good job on the light :thumbsup:


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

ktronik said:


> might have it the wrong way round, mate... 50uf cap gives way peaky curve, bad for slow speed....
> 
> 100uf for on-road, 200-500 for off road, works for me
> 
> hey good job on the light :thumbsup:


Hi K,

Doh!!!....Sorry for the stuff up on that one.:madman:....K, I guess it's been a few weeks since we spoke and I have forgoten some of the detailed info.....btw thanks for your help/guidence with this light, it works a treat:thumbsup:

:blush: I'll go through and edit my stuff up


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## SSBonty (Jan 30, 2004)

Anyone know if the shimano DH-3N80 is available with a disc mount too (don't mind if its 6 olt or centrelock)? Seems a bit silly to bring out a fab new more efficient lighter smaller better hub and limit it to non-dsc use...


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## NonConformist (Nov 19, 2004)

This thread is super useful!

Newbie question: what is the square thing and the round thing to the right of the bi-polar capacitor in this pic?









Thanks,
DG


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

NonConformist said:


> This thread is super useful!


They look like rectifiers(4 terminal +/- and ~~ for AC). I use shottky diodes to make my own, supposedly smaller voltage drop hence more efficient. Dunno if they are available in a rectifier package.

SSbonty the 80 doesn't seem to be available is disc yet.


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

NonConformist said:


> This thread is super useful!
> 
> Newbie question: what is the square thing and the round thing to the right of the bi-polar capacitor in this pic?
> 
> ...


Znomit is right the Square and round things are off the shelf rectifiers (about $1 each) that I was toying with using but ended up using the scottky diodes because as they are more efficient.


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## NonConformist (Nov 19, 2004)

Ah, I see thanks.



dazzat3 said:


> Are you still going to buy the supernova 3 or go down the DIY road????


? Definitely DIY versus the Supernova. I thought about the EDeluxe for a minute, but I can build alot of really nice DIY lights for $2C.

DG


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

Anyone know where I can get a DH-3D71 or newer in 36 hole? Shimano is being rather uncooperative even though they list a 36 hole as available.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Schmucker said:


> Anyone know where I can get a DH-3D71 or newer in 36 hole? Shimano is being rather uncooperative even though they list a 36 hole as available.


Roseversand in germany have the 3d71
I see that have a 3d72 listed too. Both 36 hole.


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

znomit said:


> Roseversand in germany have the 3d71
> I see that have a 3d72 listed too. Both 36 hole.


I'm in America. I'll switch to 32 hole before I ship across the world.


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

Ironically "Australia" could be considered one of shimano's smallest markets, yet we are able to purchase all of thier products...as I found out when I made my recent Dyno hub purchase???? I would have thought all things shimano would be easy to come by in the "US or Canada".


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Schmucker said:


> I'm in America. I'll switch to 32 hole before I ship across the world.


I came to same conclusion and purchased a 32H 3D71 from Harris.

- It's a front wheel so 36H isn't as important
- It's easier to find 32H rims
- Less wind resistance makes up for some of the electro-mech drag from the hub 



dazzat3 said:


> I would have thought all things shimano would be easy to come by in the "US or Canada".


For what ever reason, Japan doesn't treat the US/Canada market as the rest of world. You guys get all sorts of Seikos and Citizen watches we only see on ebay. Same for some of Shimano's stuff. We can't get black Alfine or black Dynamo hubs either


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> I came to same conclusion and purchased a 32H 3D71 from Harris.
> 
> - It's a front wheel so 36H isn't as important
> - It's easier to find 32H rims
> ...


Pursuiter,

The Japanese (Shimano & Cateye) seem to have some bizarre marketing idea's. They have left the door open for competitors all over the place.


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

pursuiter said:


> I came to same conclusion and purchased a 32H 3D71 from Harris.
> 
> - It's a front wheel so 36H isn't as important
> - It's easier to find 32H rims
> - Less wind resistance makes up for some of the electro-mech drag from the hub


It's just that I'm going to be using it on a touring bike. I'm 185lbs. Rear rack can hold 80lbs, front 70lbs. The extra strength would be nice. I'm using Velocity Dyads and my LBS thought they could get me a 36h so they ordered two 36h rims. Now they're finding that they can't so I'm just trying to avoid swapping the rim out.


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## mrbubbles (Apr 9, 2007)

znomit said:


> Is it painted or anodized?
> I'm doing a 6 led for the roadbike(2 MC-E, one narrow 4 in series and the other wide 2s2p so six equivalent led load) but will use martins circuit 10 and run in doubler mode most of the time(5W) with full wave 10W for the downhills. I find the current 3led very good at 5W most of the time but would like a little more on the downhills.


Not to bring up an old thread, but have you finished the light yet?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

mrbubbles said:


> Not to bring up an old thread, but have you finished the light yet?


Went with 5 leds: cutter 4up MR11 board + one more R2. 3F super cap across the single led for a standlight. Cutter narrow + polymer optics 6x25. Carbon fiber is curing now on the lighthead, should have it finished in a few days. Will post full update when done.

edit: Scratch that, finished the housing and had it on the power supply and it went pop. No idea why, all leds blown. It was running fine last week on the power supply.  :madman: :madman: :madman: 
Just ordered an MC-E and polymer optic from cutter, back to the drawing board.


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## ruppster (Apr 30, 2008)

Schmucker said:


> It's just that I'm going to be using it on a touring bike. I'm 185lbs. Rear rack can hold 80lbs, front 70lbs. The extra strength would be nice. I'm using Velocity Dyads and my LBS thought they could get me a 36h so they ordered two 36h rims. Now they're finding that they can't so I'm just trying to avoid swapping the rim out.


I have a brand new 36h 6 bolt disc hub in my possession & I have not purchased a wheel yet. It is a model DH-3D30. If you are bent on that configuration, PM me & maybe we can work something out.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Latest update to the road light.

The circuit from pilom.com has two drive modes, 250 and 500mA, giving aprox 275 and 500lm. Normal riding on flat roads 275 didn't quite cut it, so the low mode only got used for low speed climbing and as a dip for oncoming traffic.

So, I figured with 2 more LEDs I'd run it on low almost all the time, less leg power required and have a huge boost for the downhills.
I also wanted a little more peripheral light as some of the back country roads I ride have really twisty downhill sections.
I was also bothered by the lack of standlight.

And so the penta light was born.

Running with circuit 10 from pilom.com again. This time I've used a three position switch, center off so one switch does everything.
LEDs are all R2s. 4 with cutter narrow optic and the 5th with polymer optic 6x25. The polymer optic led has a 1F supercap across it to keep it burning for a few minutes when I stop. Works kinda ok.
Same old trusty rectangular aluminium extrusion for a housing. Now painted black.










Same sized plastic box holds the electronics. This was a real squeeze so I went without a nice tidy circuit board and worked everything around the switch.










Different approach to sealing the ends. Instead of translucent orange epoxy I've used carbon fiber. I'm running a cateye LD1100 rear light now that had really good side viz, and I was hoping for less light in the cockpit to preserve night vision somewhat.




























Been on a few rides and much as expected. This thing is damn bright. 460/800lm 

Haven't needed the high setting except for when a tractor left clumps of dirt all over the road. 
The standlight is ok. Ill probably still run a blinky. The 6x25 isn't that effective, probably overpowered a little by the other 4 and in retrospect maybe isn't needed.

Things I stuffed up along the way: 
I sold my old light way before finishing this so had to resurrect and old P3 dual(200lm on a good night) for a few rides. :madman: 
Blew 5 R2s running on my dodgy power supply. Not nice. :madman: 
On removing the blown quad board I found it wasn't seated to the housing. I'd run out of AA so was using normal heatsink compound and epoxy around the outside. This has worked well in the past. For whatever reason the epoxy had flowed under the MCPCB, so there was a gap and no heat transfer at all! :madman: 
Took a few goes to get the carbon fiber right, mainly for cosmetic reasons. :madman: 
The wires from LED housing to circuit box needed to be a cm longer, It was supposed to loop over the bars. :madman:

Next up... MC-E light with gruntier standlight. Maybe next winter. Maybe.


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

Hey nice new light... :thumbsup:

I saw that you wrote that your standlite 'kinda works'...

some problems I ran into while making my dynobatt standlite is that the cap has to charge first & only when charged will the power be given to the LEDs...

So Martin & I came up with this circuit...










with this circuit the supercap / capbattery will be trickle charged, thus giving power to the main LEDs straight away...this way you can have a bigger capbattery bank & run a USB power out or run a bflex to a single LED, as I did. I had the bflex set to 'flash' the single LED, saving more power & making much better use of the capbattery voltage drop from the Vf of 3/4 LEDs, right down to the minimum voltage of the bflex driving 1 LED...

worked really well as I could then use the standlite for changing a 'flat' or whatever...

food for thought...

K


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Cheers Kerry
Works well as a "be seen" light for a few minutes as is, doesn't really light up the road at all. 
Last two night rides I've had to stop and sort out seat problems so I need a front blinky I can hold in my hand anyway (cateye el135).
The cap is only on one LED so the others come on right away, the single led only lags by a second or two when switched on... when fully discharged the supercap takes a short time to charge but this isn't an issue as it probably takes a week or more to drain completely.

Theres a thread over at CPF discussing longer running standlights. A resistor to drop the discharge currrent looks like a good idea.


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## damnitman (Jan 30, 2008)

*...electrical tape?*

So I have no idea what I just read, but saw inspiration...just a little confused why with so much work into that light, the switch is taped to the stem...serriously though, wondering about the durability/reliability of the schmidt hubs from peterwhite...I live in The Middle of Nowhere, Alaska and was hoping to build a snowbike with a generator hub so as to bypass the whole battery thing...I'll still need a LiOH AA batt. LED headlamp on my noggin (for low-speed pushing through deep snow). I guess I'm just wondering if the schmidt is prone to leave me in the dark at -30 f. I figured with the obvious passion for lights and dynamos shown here, there might be some interesting feedback, thanks


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

IMHO the schmidt is the best money can buy...it has a sealing system that has a diaphragm that compensates for any change in temp, so that water is not sucked inside the bearings...

hope that helps

K


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

damnitman said:


> ...just a little confused why with so much work into that light, the switch is taped to the stem...


Theres foam tape between the stem and control box. The tape holds it tight, is lightweight and durable. Cant actually think of a nicer way to mount it....


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## damnitman (Jan 30, 2008)

nonirregadlessly, nice light.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Heres my latest dyno light.
I wanted to go back to 3 LEDs because its enough light and I can do without the drag from the other two LEDs. No standlight as I ride with a front blinky anyway. KISS.

This is the easiest build yet.

Martins circuit 10 again because it works so well.

I used inch square section, walls around 2mm thick. Perfect fit for the XP-E triple 16 degree loaded with R2s. 
I tested a section on the bench with a few leds running at 5W to test heat dissipation, fine with a small fan running. Also noted the bar heats up evenly so 2mm seems to be thick enough to spread the heat around.
Bored a big hole towards one end to let the light out... probably should have gone a little larger and extended the hole a short way down the sides. Chopped a small grove in the other end for cable relief and a matching groove in the plastic ends.
Bracket is a flex-tight from cateye, only modification needed was a longer screw (screw head inside the light).
I put the C1 capacitor inside the light head but you could leave it remote. This gives extra cooling area and gives me the option of flipping the light up if using a handlebar bag. A buckpuck is a perfect fit in there too if you're into that sort of thing. 
To seal the light I used mylar OHP sheets siliconed to the housing front. To get a perfect fit I taped the sheet to some section and sat in boiling water so it took the shape of the bar. It hazed somewhat but I polished this off. The end caps are sealed with silicone too.



















Long distance setup:









Normal setup, note it hangs below the cable so no annoying shadows. 









Performance?
Works very well. It doesn't have quite the punch of the MR11 cutter beam but I think the wider beam is more useful on the twisty stuff where it counts.


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