# Why no bicycle should go 60 mph - the motorbike that broke Simon Cowell's back.



## JDUBku (Aug 27, 2015)

ebike IS a motor bike.. like no one expected this. ebikes are slowly ruining the sport. You asked for it. Thanks for nothing. Trail closures are next.


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## Big Drop Bob (Feb 15, 2008)

Your title. is misleading. They sometimes refer to full sized motorcycles as "bikes" but there is no confusion that it's a powerful dirt bike and should be considered the same as a 300 KTM or similar bike. It's not a bicycle!


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## Harry3 (Aug 13, 2020)

A legal ebike in the US can have 750w nominal, no limit on peak power. The 250w emtbs you ride are simply a lower powered subset of what is legal.

It's no mystery as to why they are called ebikes, it's so they can ride where bikes ride. Good luck keeping them out.


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## JimmyTwoWheels (May 29, 2012)

Really MTBR? That bike is a natural evolution of anything powered. There will always be those searching for More. What's next, telling folks to avoid Tesla's b/c they're more powerful than they need to be? Instead of sounding like a Nanny, why not revel in the creativity and option available for those looking for extremes? And, just b/c some tv celeb "has been seen riding many e-bikes on his estate" doesn't make him any kind of expert in anything. I'm sorry he got hurt, but if he was an expert he would've known what to watch out for. He was doing wheelies on it! He knew! Don't make it about the bike. This one article could be enough to end my interest in MTBR...


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## cube-monkey (Aug 12, 2018)

"Machines such as the Swind EB-01 are dangerous motorbikes masquerading as e-bikes" 
And e-bikes are motorbikes masquerading as bicycles.

"It is a mystery why they call themselves e-bikes when they are clearly motorcycles"
LOL, again, e-bikes are motorcycles.

E-bike advocates think by becoming aggressive and bullying those of us against them that that will change reality. They also push a dishonest renaming of in hopes that somehow gives them validation when in reality they're pedal-assisted motorcycles. Maybe once we can have an honest conversation about what they are, then we can have a productive conversation on trail access.

There are going to be more & more of these on the trails as time goes on. In fact I saw one extremely similar to this on the trail this last Sunday except that it had a DVO triple clamp fork. (As I'm sitting here looking at the picture I took, I'm starting to think it is the same bike with the exception of some mods.)


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## Mr-EPIC-32 (Jun 23, 2020)

Thank you for setting the record straight, that is not an eMTB.


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## Hugo_Vagino (Aug 13, 2020)

"It is a mystery why they call themselves e-bikes when they are clearly motorcycles. Perhaps its to avoid safety regulations and registration and licensing/training of owners that they try to fly under the radar. But clearly, they are dangerous machines that have no business being sold or used on trails, bike paths, or even roads." - HUH that's how most of us feel about turbo lev's and their counterparts, yet you keep stuffing them down our throat.


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

It's a mystery why bikes with power continue to try to call themselves nonmotorized. ebikes are ebikes, if it has power that doesn't come from the rider, it's motorized.

The hand wringing over danger, oh my! Plenty of motorcycles have lots of horsepower. This was a rider issue.


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## Vorman (Mar 11, 2004)

It's only imbalanced if you're unfamiliar with dirt bikes. It's an electric motorcycle and should be labeled and managed as such. They could electronically make a beginner mode if they chose to. Its not unsafe, it's high performance. If you have ridden a two stroke 250 in and out of the powerband, you get the idea. I'd ride that on dirt bike singletrack and closed courses and if they let me have a plate I'd ride it on the street.


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## John_C. (Jun 12, 2014)

You would think a bike like that would have at least one or more low-power modes to give new riders some sort of a fighting chance. Based on this story, this thing is like a stick of dynamite. Due to the manufacturer's apparent lack of judgement and foresight, I can easily see the company getting sued out of existence.


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## slohr (May 22, 2008)

Yep.


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## sevenspd (Oct 28, 2006)

I just look at this whole incident as karma in action. 
And fwiw, any bike with a throttle, gas or electric, is a motorcycle not an e-bike and should be licensed accordingly.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

>>You would think a bike like that would have at least one or more low-power modes to give new riders some sort of a fighting chance.

Yup! Simon Cowell has a bunch of ebikes and he never had a chance. His only words of advice was 'when you buy an ebike, read the manual first." It really seems like an unsafe product and a manual is not going to save most from the same fate.

It's become a coveted "rich man's ultimate toy" and that demographic has little chance with this.


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## dave_f (Mar 11, 2004)

Looks like an e-bike to me. Do a search for "e-bike bypass pedal assist".


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

>> Really MTBR? That bike is a natural evolution of anything powered. There will always be those searching for More.

Electric motorcycles exist and this is one of them. Our issue it's pretending to be a bicycle to skirt the NHTSA rules.

The bike industry has been working hard to only create 250 watt ebikes and get them legalized. We know that outliers will exist, heck they've been around 12 years like that Stealth Bomber. But we think it is worth pointing out that this has 60 times the power of a legal ebike. And red flags for riding any kind of ebikes because of this incident is not quite warranted.


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## Brad_Trent (Jan 23, 2004)

That video might be the single most irresponsible thing I've eve seen to promote a product and in the hands a even a shitty lawyer could open them up to massive liability lawsuits...


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## Tekime (Apr 25, 2015)

It has pedals. It's an electric bicycle. Not meeting regulations for a street legal eBike in some countries doesn't make it a motorbike. If I remove the muffler from my car it would be illegal, but it would certainly still be a car. Furthermore, legal pedal-assist eBikes have a motor, so therefor are also motorbikes.

The overall biased tone and ranting nature of this article make it pretty hard to understand or appreciate whatever point it is the author is trying to make. I don't know why it made it to my inbox but I regret clicking it. ?


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## BundokBiker (May 15, 2004)

New rule... if the average rider can't pick it up and carry over the obstacles on a cyclocross course, then it's a motorcycle not a bicycle. That being said, anyone have a spare $20k? I could use that for my bike commute.


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## DtEW1 (Aug 13, 2020)

Any "e-bike" that grossly exceeds even the peak transient power output of freak, world-class athletes no longer qualifies as assistance, and should be legally-treated as an e-motorbike, hence subject to either NHTSA regulations, or limited to off-highway (read: track) use only.

While there should be no laws prohibiting obvious affectations like cranks & pedals (unless they are found to be safety hazards) on the Swind EB-01, it is imperative that both gov't and the e-bike industry come together to unambiguously define (and publicize) what an e-bike is and isn't. I think this whole episode is a matter of lay media* not knowing any better and failing to consult anybody better-in-the-know. It's also convenient that the story is more sensational if they go with the lay misunderstanding. With more publicizing of what defines an e-bike vs. e-motorcycle, the lay media will actually fear coming across as stupid and ignorant if the audience might be better-in-the-know.

* As somebody who works in a scientific field, I am almost always frustrated by how much technical stories are distorted by the lay media for both sensationalism and just simple ignorance.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Guys do this all the time on motorcycles leaving the dealership. Basically if your to stupid handle the power stay off them. This doesn't make the bike dangerous, just like powerful front brakes don't make people crash.
Sucks that it happened, but it's not the bikes fault and I see these on the trails all the time. Ebikes are the future and people want more power. This is legal under the current law. Don't try to sugarcoat this as different from any other motorized bike.
Stupid is as stupid does.
Can't wait to get mine when they start making XXL versions. Bigger the battery and the higher the speed the better. might as well go all in.


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## mrlalonde (Sep 10, 2007)

And a eMoTorBike is not a bicycle. Ha Ha I found you Jason! With most of the comments here it would seem you are up against a lot of opposition.


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## Fastskiguy (Jan 15, 2004)

Thanks guys, now I want one!


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## Gus_Laskaris (Jul 26, 2020)

Hang on...it's an eBIke. Yeah, it's more powerful than most of them but it seems that the definition of an eBike actually depends on some arbitrary power limit...500 watts is cool but 600 is a motorcycle...more than anything else.

500 watts is more than most professional racers can produce and they can sprint at close to 40 MPH. Spare us the outrage. I understand that MTBR and the entire cycling press has to please its advertisers but eBikes are motorcycles in any configuration.


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## Rob42 (Aug 13, 2020)

I had a moped when I was a teenager and it was limited to less than 50cc's. Max speed was 20MPH. E-bikes of today are the equivalent of a moped in the past. There MUST be a power limit to enable an "E-bike" to remain an E-bike and skirt safety regulations for motorcycles that are designed for all of us. Just like a helmet and seatbelt law exists and many others. A civilized society doesn't let incredibly dangerous "toys" be used without proper safety measures. Something that goes 60MPH must have a break light, rear view mirrors, etc. It makes sense! It is no fun to take care of a relative with a TBI--Traumatic Brain Injury!


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## rob214 (Apr 18, 2019)

it has a motor it must be dangerous


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## mrkkbb (Aug 30, 2020)

An e-bike designation should only be used for bikes that provide power in assisted mode, i.e. when the rider is pedaling. If a bike provides power without pedaling then it is a moped or motorcycle. Clearly we need some strict e-bike regulations from the federal government.


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## laugh_at_the_sun (Sep 4, 2014)

Please stope referring to motorized cycles as "bikes". A "bike" or "bicycle" has meant pedal-power for decades. Any two-wheeled machine with a motor should be referred to as a motorcycle or motorbike. This is a marketing and legislative ploy to get motorized vehicles on same trails as mountain bikes.


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## Harry3 (Aug 13, 2020)

It's worth pointing out that it actually has 10x the power of a legal 750w ebike which peaks @ 1500w, it's not 60x.

The problem is that this sort of new vehicle category, the light emoto is booming and will force a reckoning in the near future. Light emotos like this, the Sur Ron and the Segway dirt bike exist in a blurry space where they are mtb sized and use mtb parts, but are edging into emoto performance. They are quiet, cheaper than many emtbs, and to many, way more fun. Sur Ron has sold 10,000 in the last 2 years essentially on word of mouth alone, and very few of their owners respect the requirements as to where they can ride them. It's basically catch me if you can. They are riding them where we already ride, and it will affect emtb access in the future. No one has the time or money to monitor and sort out who is riding what, anything with a motor and pedals will be treated the same by other users and land managers.


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## Jeffrey_D_Smith (Aug 13, 2020)

Ebike or Motorcycle, that will all get worked out in due time.

Like always, know your machine and know your self, i.e. know the abilities and limitations of both!

For now it just looks like another way to have fun to me!


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## Rick15 (Apr 22, 2019)

But...but...eBikes will allow greater access to our sport...we can regulate which types of eBikes use our trails...we must embrace this new technology....anyone claiming that eBikes will cost us trail access is ignorant and alarmist....blah blah blah.
First time I see something like this on our local eBike-prohibited trails, I'm beating the rider's ass. This sh-t WILL cost us our sport.


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## uraderp (Aug 13, 2020)

E-bikes are not motorcycles. Electric motorcycles are motorcycles. You don't have to pedal a motorcycle.


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## uraderp (Aug 13, 2020)

No, it's an electric motorcycle. Arbitrary limits are how laws work. That's why 18 is DTF and 17 is statutory rape.


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## Bob_Don’tch_Know (Aug 14, 2020)

This article was a bit....underwhelming. Here is why I think that.

1st- I personally don't care about 'E-bikes' or MotorBikes as long as trail access is not lost due to them, the riders and the industry trying to rush into a business without working out the details first (or at all). 
2nd- I don't own an Ebike and don't plan on buying one due to cost and I'd rather not have anything else to worry about on my MTB's. If I was given one and my trails were 'rated or accepting of Emtb's, then yes, I would rip it. No doubt.

Here is my simple understanding in a simple but probably not perfect analogy;

Regular pedal Bike=BB gun (.17 cal) you have to pump between each shot
Pedal assist Ebike= .22 caliber short rim fire
Ebikes with throttles (The ones that go 20mph max)= .22 caliber long
Ebikes that can go 70mph= .45 caliber 
Trials motorcycle (gas)= .556 NATO 
Motor cycles (street bikes)=.308 Winchester
Drag racing motorcycle (both gas and electric)= .50 caliber Rifle

They all have two wheels and are fun to ride, just as they all shoot projectiles and can be used for hunting. But as you go down the list the responsibility gets larger. Also as you go down the list they are also more regulated because of the inherent risk.

Sucks what happened to Simon, but he went from using a .22cal to using a .45 cowl' and was not being responsible. If you think I am being ignorant just look up Shooting Fails and you will see people who are over their heads, don't have the proper respect for what they are handling and end up getting hurt or embarrassed at the least. Same goes for bikers of all sorts (ie regular pedal, Ebike, motorbike).

I like riding and don't mind sharing the trail with anyone on anything as long as there is a universal understanding and respect. Double track/fire road with or without features that is 'rated for multi use great. Single track multi use, great. Single track, bike (I'm not a law maker so I won't discern between Ebike and bicycle) and hike only, great. Hike only trail great.

The world just needs some more respect and bipartisanship within all aspects, including biking and then maybe people will be happier and ride their darn bikes!

✌


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## KC4 (Aug 14, 2020)

Of course it's an e-bike. It's got the standard pedaled drive train, it just happens to have a more powerful electric motor than other e-bikes. There are plenty of e-bikes out there with throttles, that just means it's not a pedelec. People who make their bed and don't want to sleep in it...


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## Francis1 (Aug 14, 2020)

These are already US classification of ebikes.

Class I - Pedal assist up to 20mph support (mostly referred as eMTB). This class is mostly allowed in California bike parks now such as Mammoth, Snow Summit. Also allowed on some trails.

Class II - with throttle up to 20mph. 
Class III - with throttle and up to 28mph.

Simon ebike is not on this classification at all.

People still think emtb is a motorcycle probably haven't ride one yet.


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## JHopkin (Jan 28, 2020)

Only dangerous in the hands of unskilled riders! Road bikers are hitting 60+ mph on steep downs hills on their 700c tires, skill and experience.....


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

>> Of course it's an e-bike. It's got the standard pedaled drive train, it just happens to have a more powerful electric motor than other e-bikes. There are plenty of e-bikes out there with throttles, that just means it's not a pedelec.

It's a motorcycle. One can put pedals too on a Ducati to stretch the truth but that doesn't make it a bicycle. 60 times the power of a legal e-bike is a little bit of different beast and shouldn't pretend to be one.


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## Mark_Green (Aug 14, 2020)

If a bike has a throttle, be it gas or electric, it is NOT a bicycle. A real e-bike offers peddle assist up to 20 mph, when battery boost ceases until speed decreases under 20 mph. The Swind EB is a battery powered motorcycle, NOT a bicycle.


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## Ales (Aug 14, 2020)

Superfluous discussion. There's nothing prohibiting building and marketing such a vehicle. By any standards, this is considered a motorcycle. In California it requires an M1 motorcycle license and registration as a motorcycle plus all liability insurance for such vehicles. May be not allowed on freeways. In the E.U. this is also a motorcycle requiring an A2 class license, full registration and insurance. In the U.K. this is a full motorcycle too, probably same requirements as in the E.U as the driving license requirements are aligned. E-bike enthusiasts not having above mentioned motorcycle licenses are committing a violation if they operate this vehicle on public roads. Some countries may allow registered operation with a car driver license.


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## Karl9 (Aug 14, 2020)

So Simon Cowell didn't event get out of his driveway. To his defense, these things look pretty unrideable, off-road in particular. Hit a bump and oopsy, open the throttle unintentionally. You can get away with that on a regular cross bike. These things? Dart out from underneath just like that.


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## RobertW1 (Aug 14, 2020)

Any mechanical power assist makes it a motorcycle. You cannot put pedals on motorcycle and pretend it is a bicycle.


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## Pete16 (Aug 14, 2020)

I came here expecting a well thought out article. Instead I got a quick "get off my lawn" article. Disappointed to say the least.


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

Pedal assist bikes are not 'ruining the sport'. People are idiots on regular mountain bikes, they are idiots on pedal assist mountain bikes, they are idiots on e motorbikes. People have bad behavior no matter their mode of transport. Pedal assist ebikes are not motorbikes.


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

Motorbike riders have always had rogue elements who ride on inappropriate trails. You just saw the latest version of that, not the end of mountainbiking.
Pedal assist ebikes are not motorbikes.


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

Look up 'pedal assist' and see if that helps.


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

Nice analogy. You can bet a lot of the anti ebike brigade are gun owners and will tell you 'guns don't kill people' until they are blue in the face.
People do stupid things whether they are on foot, riding a bike, riding a motorbike, driving a car. Pedal assist bikes are not the problem. Stupid people doing stupid things are a problem, as are the willfully uninformed who shout it down without understanding.


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## Michael_M1 (Aug 14, 2020)

First 100% Simon's fault. Not the bike. Not the manufacturer. Not any regulation. You cant fix stupid is a statement of fact. But you can beat it out of someone. That is what has happened here. If you are clueless as to what you are buying and you DONT read the manual then this is what happens. I raced downhill in the late 80's through 2001. We routinely hit speeds over 70MPH and 80 was not uncommon. This was before we had all the high flying jumps and Red Bull getting into it all and making it all technical and jumps.

Mr. Cebedo, I'd like to see your Ducati with an active pedaling drive train. You do not have the engineering ability to make this that works. I am a mechanical and structural engineer and it would challenge me.
Lets just stay on your logic here for a minute. Did you know that there is a difference between a moped, a scooter, and a motorcycle? To follow you these three are the same. This ebike is just that, an EBIKE. It is surly a extreme ebike and maybe not street legal, but an ebike none the less.

I do understand your point but to place this anywhere but 100% on the feet of Simon is emotionally based not logically. I fully support the availability of these ebikes. But people better know what the hell they are getting into. Clearly these can kill you.


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## Michael_M1 (Aug 14, 2020)

e = electric powered
bike- vehicle having pedal that can create motion
This meets both.
A moped is not an ebike but you could call it a motorbike. Like they do and did with the old motorbikes from the early part of the twentieth century. You know except those without pedals. 
When you say "legal" ebike you are talking about 'road legal' ebikes. This is designed for off road use.
The only party at fault here is Simon for NOT reading and understanding his owners manual and buying something that he does not have the skills to control. But now he has the respect for it. 
Can I get Simons number please. I bet I can pick this up for a great deal right now.


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## Michael_M1 (Aug 14, 2020)

Since I have a Barrett .50 I can now drag race bikes. Awesome. I do love the gun comparison. But you left off the S&W 500 series pistols LOL.


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## dan43 (Aug 14, 2020)

The real question is, why is there such a simply legal loophole that manufactures can call their bike an "ebike" simply to avoid motorcycle legislation. I'm sure it's partly marketing as well but this mislabeling shouldn't be incentivized.


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## jokermtb (Mar 11, 2004)

It's a poor artist that blames their brush..............


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## bonedale (May 27, 2020)

Technology is always so much faster than gov regulation, and on top of that, new products are usually a new category adding to the challenges. Drones come to mind as well. But regulation wouldn't stop that accident from happening. People will always buy the cool toy if they can even if it exceeds their skill. Think rich kids getting their first motorcycle and going out and buying a 1000cc superbike. Or just watch any mtn bike fails video and see people taking on trails beyond their ability.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

>> The real question is, why is there such a simply legal loophole that manufactures can call their bike an "ebike" simply to avoid motorcycle legislation. I'm sure it's partly marketing as well but this mislabeling shouldn't be incentivized.

Yup. That's our point as well. People are free to ride and build whatever contraption. We don't want to incentivize of course and recommend people to buy and ride this. And labeling it as a bicycle just makes folks believe the bicycle is a dangerous device.


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## older'nslower (Feb 28, 2009)

It looks like fun to me, but at over 20K? There are way too many options, both e-bike and motorcycle, at way lower price points.


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## bobsyouruncle1 (Jun 26, 2018)

You don't have to pedal an e-bike either...


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## hrdude (Feb 17, 2006)

That thing looks insane, but the price is even more insane.


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## sbrdude1 (Jun 17, 2011)

The government regulating anything is the last thing we need. Be responsible and make your own decisions.


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## Paddyosonic (Dec 30, 2018)

OK, definitely not a street-legal e-bike here in Ontario. 500 watts max allowed and max speed (motor only) 32 kph. Clearly Mr. Cowell should have understood that he was stepping onto an e-motorcycle and not just another one of his e-bikes. Shame what happened to him but how could he not understand what he was getting into? As far as I understand, the regulations on e-motorcycles already exist. (though I don't see anybody around here riding them) I have to point out that the crankset hanging from that thing is a like a huge glaring lie. It's a motorcycle (as defined by its power rating) and you shouldn't be hanging a crankset on it. I'm in agreement with the author on this point. Also, where I live, e-bikes (in all forms) are allowed on regular roads and bike lanes only. They are prohibited on multi-use paths and trails. Still, I see dorks taking them there anyways and the cops seem to do nothing about it. Half the e-bikers I see here aren't following the helmet law either, again, the cops do nothing. The legal e-bikes are already enough of a safety problem, especially this year, with COVID 19 resulting in double the number of people taking to bicycles and e-bikes as transportation to avoid public transit. I'm not crazy about sharing bike lanes with regular e-bikes. I sure do not want to see them on our local trails. But if I see some idiot show up on a trail with one of these, I'm shooting video and reporting it.


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## Joseph_Deprospero (Aug 16, 2020)

This is a "motorcycle" pedals or not. An e-bike is an electric bike to assist someone in climbing a hill or go longer than usual distances...An ebike can't go faster than 25mph. Am electric motorbike is classed to go up to 80 mph. It would need to stay off the trails and go to to dirt bike tracks.

Fact: Simon Cowl feel of a motorbike not an e-bike.

Journalist's Learn how to use the English language before you print something and confuse people with your Ignorance.


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## Matthew_M_Daniels (Aug 16, 2020)

It's not labeled as an e-bike it's an electric motorcycle let me reiterate that it is an electric motorcycle not the same thing bad journalism is spreading that it was an electric e-bike


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## Jeremy11 (Aug 17, 2020)

Take some responsibility people!!, get on a YZ 250 if you want a motocross experience. There is no guarantee that you will not get hurt. This may well be a high powered electric bike and I am sure there are plenty of riders who can handle it. There are also plenty of riders to inexperienced to ride it. Does a beginner pilot expect to fly a helicopter with no experience? He treats the machine with the respect it deserves. Same in this case do not unleash a high powered electric motorcycle in your front garden until you are competent with it. Not the manufacturers fault is implied by others


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## Paul_Cherry (Feb 5, 2020)

Andy, your argument is based on your opinion, no evidence to back up what you say. As a result you've convinced me to the contrary.


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## Preston67 (Mar 20, 2008)

The real problem I see is that's the ugliest 2 wheel machine I've ever seen. Including the Marin Mt. Wolf.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

>> Andy, your argument is based on your opinion, no evidence to back up what you say. As a result you've convinced me to the contrary.

For sure this is an opinion piece meant to open up discussion. We discourage buying these bikes and riding them on bike trails. A 'bicycle' with 60 times the power of an e-mtb, no clutch to modulate power and all the motor weight in the rear hub is not good in our opinion.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

>> It's not labeled as an e-bike it's an electric motorcycle let me reiterate that it is an electric motorcycle not the same thing bad journalism is spreading that it was an electric e-bike.

In their website and all their materials, it's labeled as a bicycle. And that is our main point here that we want to clarify. Because of that, almost every mainstream media we've seen, (and there are many hundreds), state it as a bicycle. It makes the bicycle appear very dangerous to most folks and we want to dispel that.


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## las-palmas (Oct 22, 2013)

Does an E-bike have a motor?
If yes it is a motorbike.
Your comment is just as smart as the one that a beer can save anything.
E-bikes are crashing and causing a lot of problems meny places in the world but making money is more important than anything else.
E-bikes are good for nothing as well as E-scooters.


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## Brent7 (Jul 24, 2017)

Really MTBR? 
It has pedals, electric motor, and a battery. By your very own definition it is an ebike and just because you think it goes too fast you think no one should ride it? You guys are the ones promoting these things, so reap what you sow. You get soooo excited when someone builds a light ebike, but it is wrong if someone does what humans do naturally, put bigger motors in things? You say It makes the bicycle appear very dangerous to most folks and we want to dispel that. Geeze, get off of it, anything is dangerous in the wrong hands.


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## REB41 (Aug 17, 2020)

We called this years ago that is was going to be a slippery slope when you start putting motors on bikes. Horse riding, hiking and mountain biking trails do not allow motorized vehicles, PERIOD! But, but, but mine only has this much power...doesn't matter, it's still a motorized vehicle.


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

"Worked out"
We'll all be "worked out" from our local trails like you said - in due time.


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## Richard_Lee (Aug 18, 2020)

All European countries are supposed to have the same regulations for motor vehicles. This for both design and use and for operation licensing vehicle taxation and driver testing.
The UK regulations for learner motorcycles is 12bhp petrol or 10kw electric. Its in black and white.
Does the purchaser need to show they have suitable entitlement to operate this vehicle. Of course not. It can be used off road. 
If it is sold for road use it must have design approval. Covered by extensive regulation and be taxed insured and registered. It must comply with the mot laws in due course and be road legal at all times as must the rider. 
But as many have said the problem here is more likely the operator. Not the machine. 
If the failure is with the makers they could find significant action is heading their way as we speak.


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## Jeff46 (Aug 19, 2020)

Correct the Geo, put the motor in the body, put some pegs on it and that's a pretty badass vehicle! Dirt road / pit track destroyer! Lightweight silent dirt bikes... I'm all for it. Throw some cheesy pedals on it to avoid a bunch of government red tape in the name of fun... not seeing the problem here except for Karen and the fun police.


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## Paul_Cherry (Feb 5, 2020)

Francis, my response was directed to Andy W. "ebike is a motor bike...." In regards to your article, I support and agree with you.


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## kendunn (Sep 9, 2013)

Pedals would make 70mph extremely dangerous. Bikes this fast are motorbikes and not human powered, not at all.


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## mitresaw (Aug 20, 2020)

i would not want to push it home


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## Karkus1 (Mar 9, 2018)

The e-bike industry is trying to have it both ways! They argued for years that class 2 bikes (with throttle and pedals) were NOT motorcycles, so that they could get them approved on non-motorized bike trails. NOW they are saying that this electric bike with pedals and a throttle is NOT an e-bike. Which is it? 
Ebikes of all kinds should be called Mopeds. They have a motor and pedals. Sounds like the perfect name for them.


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## Karkus1 (Mar 9, 2018)

The amount of power doesn't change the basic definition of a vehicle type. A vehicle with 4 wheels and a motor is called an automobile, regardless of whether it has 50 HP or 1000 HP. A bicycle being powered by a human with pedals is a bicycle, regardless of whether the rider is Lance or a 3 year old. Arbitrary legal definitions of classes don't mean sqat.


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## Karkus1 (Mar 9, 2018)

No...not the bike industry. It was the e-bike industry that worked hard to created 250 watt motorized bicycles, and get them legalized on non-motorized trails. Then they said, let's include throttle bikes too, and then they said, let's up that to 750 watts. Slippery slope !!! Now the regular bike companies are jumping on board for fear of losing out.
But it's regular cyclists and all our trail access efforts who will be the victims.


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## Karkus1 (Mar 9, 2018)

You don't have to pedal a class 2 "e-bike". It has a throttle. It is motorcycle. Period. Just like the one Simon crashed.


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## David_Turner (Mar 11, 2013)

It's easy to see from 3 minutes of Google searching that more power is always going to be desirable. It will not be possible to hop a typical electric mtb up like the rocket bike that flipped Simon on his ass, but for many a chip will be a given upgrade.

DT

https://www.ebiketuning.com/

https://www.badassebikes.org/english/2019/10/11/badassbox-4-bosch-for-model-year-2020






https://www.electricbiketuning.com/

https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/25km-h-32-45-60-what-speed-do-you-actually-want-on-your-e-bike.31579/page-2

https://www.eplus.bike/en/eplus-tutor-immobilizer-per-shimano-steps-e8000-2/


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Oh be quiet. Boo hoo.


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## Zack2 (Aug 21, 2020)

I wish people would stop talking about what is legal and what is not. 250W, nominal 750W, 20mph top speed without pedal assist, those are all wrong. There is literally no nationwide law about what delineates a legal bike and an illegal e-bike. Everything is by state, and it rarely even takes into account e-anything. Simon Cowell was in California, but he was on private property so no laws applied at all.

In New Mexico, any two-wheeled thing with any kind of mechanical power source is considered a motorcycle, and all motorcycle licensing is done by cc displacement (50cc, 50-100cc, and >100cc), so no e-bike, electric moped, or even electric scooter can legally be ridden at all, even if it is 100W and has a top speed of 5mph.

But people ride all of those. I shattered my leg on a regular mountain bike, on a designated bike path. People are hit by cars and killed on foot. Motorcyclists are run over by cars. None of it has anything to do with engine size, and nobody gives a crap when an individual hurts themselves. It's not like Simon Cowell crashed into a troop of Girl Scouts. Therefore, there aren't going to be "trail closures" or new laws coming out of it. Those come in when there's a big cost to insurance companies or taxpayers. Motorcycle helmet laws didn't come into effect until it was shown that brain damaged crash victims on life support were costing taxpayers millions in Medicaid reimbursements.


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## ro7939 (May 25, 2009)

As usual, operator error. I'm shocked that someone as arrogant and self centered as Simon Cowell is so stupid...NOT.

About $150 worth of gyroscope and computer power would completely eliminate all front wheel lift, or limit the degree of lift to any predetermined angle.

Add 2-wheel drive to this bike and watch out.


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## DriftMachine (Dec 2, 2010)

E-bikes are not ruining the sport, anti everything new types are. The same was true when it was fat tires, 1x drive trains, full suspension, and so on. People will always hate new things because they can't afford it.

This guy would have broke his back in the same type of crash no matter the bike. Sorry he broke his back, but this anti e-bike stuff is too much


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## Zibwag1 (Aug 26, 2020)

But now these out of shape idiots are going much faster and are more dangerous. Riding a 50lb ebike and barreling through tight single track with the skills of a newbie is dangerous for everyone near them.


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## circuitsports (Aug 11, 2020)

Too bad he didn't use Gordon Ramsey as a jump ramp first whose been out running red lights on his bike lately. I'm more worried about the driver that nearly had PTSD and that poor tree he almost hit.


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## Wow1 (Sep 20, 2020)

If Simon had so many ebikes and is suprised with the torque of the bike then he is either a complete idiot or he has never ridden an ebike. And if it was delivered to him he obviously researched the specs of the bike. So maybe you should've wrote the story a little better because you would have to be a fool to believe what "Simion" said


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## Aaron15 (Oct 1, 2020)

E Bikes are getting many of my friends and family that had given up riding because they couldn't keep up because they are 10-20 years older than me a middle aged man. If it is going to keep them riding bicycles instead of settling down to do nothing in their Golden Years than I am all for it. As for me the only power I want is for the MX Track or riding MX trails with friends.


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## Arnel (Oct 11, 2020)

thrill seekers are always getting hurt, just stick to light stretching and long walks and you will be fine


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## Sean11 (Dec 13, 2020)

The repetitive use of the words "dangerous motorcycle" are extremely irksome and inflammatory, anything is dangerous in the wrong hands. 
That aside, the issue here seems to be a lack of self-regulation mixed with a failure to update/modify the law. A machine like this requires training, licence and insurance and then it is likely an excellent replacement for road legal dirt bikes, with much improved environmental impact with regard to emissions etc. Governing bodies failure to properly recognise and categorise it have forced it into this grey area that seriously affects bicycle users.
Histrionic anti-ebike fear peddlers are just using this kind of article to spread their conservative views about cycling and access to trails, shame on you.
As for Cowell, stupid is as stupid does.


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## John_C1 (Dec 13, 2020)

There's a saying in the motorcycle world that goes "The throttle works both ways." This bike didn't break Simon Cowell's back. His own inexperience did.


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## Hop_Sing (Dec 13, 2020)

Wow Simon you are a fool and idiot 
Get some common sense
If I start cooking start a kitchen fire and burn down my house.
Why would I sue the home builder.
Your stupidity and arrogance and ego caused the
accident.
Yes that was a powerful and dangerous bike your ignorance and carelessness or stupidity caused the accident.
Only a fool jumps in a tiger cage without knowing what type of animal is in that cage.
So sad you will sue someone because of your stupidity
Hop Sing can cook


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## Lee_Russell (Dec 13, 2020)

I have a 46V pedego interceptor. Ebike. Pedal assist. Hits 20mph tops. Its NOT made for off road, strictly a road bike. If Simon got on this monster without knowing its capabilities, its strictly on him. At 20mph, mine hauls ass and I mostly use the pedal assist. The ebike he wrecked ,is an electric motorcycle . E trail bike. He deserves not one penny from the company that made it. He was obviously unprepared to ride it. There are different ebikes made for different roads. 20,000 bucks? You should know what you're getting and take responsibility for it. Those that don't have one should probably refrain from bit#&ing about what they should be called. IMO


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

At upwards of 75mph, this thing is not an e-bike.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

It seems like its more dangerous for having those cranks instead of foot pegs


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

**** him and these litigious douches.

Still don't know what he is famous for. I know he was a judge on some TV show. But I hear he likes fast cars, I think he should get rid of all of them since he clearly can't handle the responsibility of driving.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

When the marketing/media pushes "fun" as a selling point, does this make consumers concede that it comes with safety risks?

F that. At least half the time that I see "fun" being mentioned in mtb reviews, it seems to comes at a cost of capability, safety, and forgiveness (to rider error). When they add "hardcore", I am more suspect, wondering if it means it's for an advanced rider or reckless rider.

The motorcycle makers have way more vehicle dynamic knowledge than these ebike makers. They went through their own stages of trial-and-error. I remember reading about BMW Paralever, and how it fixed anti-squat to not be so excessive. There was something called shaft-jacking, where the rear of the bike would rise aggressively on acceleration, and riders would actually get used to it and utilize it to their advantage, but this effect was not very newbie-friendly.

It seems some MTB brands only recently have taken a stronger step to tuning fore-aft balance. Before, it was a trial and error thing. Such balance was tuned according to elite athlete feedback, which made bikes dialed in XL and L (for tall athletes). Having ridden a bike with good balance, and one without, it takes far less effort to ride a balanced bike well. Adapting/compensating for the poor balance by shifting my weight rearward/forward felt like a waste. It seems taller people are experiencing this now, as bikes get longer, wishing for longer CS to not need to weight the front. Lots of shorter riders have never felt this before, used to their rearward positioning. Some people jump onto new "LLS" enduro bikes and feel confused that the fork and tire combo feels less secure than they're used to, or blame unfamiliar tires for the sensation of the front not gripping well. Well, motorcycle makers have tuned this. I doubt this no-name ebike brand has.

Anyways, just ranting about how people vastly underestimate all the variables in bike development. Balance, chassis stiffness, and suspension are huge. This really isn't something makers put onto paper nor patent. People seem to judge by everything else, clinging to anything familiar and dismissing a lot as low priority. This ebike looks like a hobby job that spent more on polishing the aesthetics for the complete package, to appeal to clueless buyers who look for such. No one wants the responsibility to educate clueless buyers, so buyers end up merely shopping for what looks like what they want, without knowing what the difference is between this and that besides the price and whatever small print (bigger than fine print, like spec and geo) they bother to try and read (often trying to get others to interpret it for them).


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

DriftMachine said:


> E-bikes are not ruining the sport, anti everything new types are. The same was true when it was fat tires, 1x drive trains, full suspension, and so on. People will always hate new things because they can't afford it.
> 
> This guy would have broke his back in the same type of crash no matter the bike. Sorry he broke his back, but this anti e-bike stuff is too much


Ebikes take the "sport" out of the sport. Nobody's against ebikes any more than they're against motorcycles. It's just perplexing why we're fawning over them on a cycling forum which is (mostly) dedicated to the recreational and sporting aspect of cycling. It's like going to a gunshow and seeing table after table of candles, arts and crafts, and crystals. The promoters have to pay the bills but seriously...


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## dazzer30 (May 21, 2015)

I think people should understand its only a matter of time before someone gets killed or kills someone else on these Ebikes , then we normally all get punished with new laws on what we can and cant do , i don't mind Ebikes but they should not be going that fast or power full on public land , i would not want to be hit by that on a trail or out walking .


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Vorman said:


> It's only imbalanced if you're unfamiliar with dirt bikes. It's an electric motorcycle and should be labeled and managed as such. They could electronically make a beginner mode if they chose to. Its not unsafe, it's high performance. If you have ridden a two stroke 250 in and out of the powerband, you get the idea. I'd ride that on dirt bike singletrack and closed courses and if they let me have a plate I'd ride it on the street.


I agree.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Ailuropoda said:


> Ebikes take the "sport" out of the sport. Nobody's against ebikes any more than they're against motorcycles. It's just perplexing why we're fawning over them on a cycling forum which is (mostly) dedicated to the recreational and sporting aspect of cycling. It's like going to a gunshow and seeing table after table of candles, arts and crafts, and crystals. The promoters have to pay the bills but seriously...


Motorsports are sports. The sport part is just the glorification of mans' capability in physically outperforming each other (and not so much the machine). The problem here is you thinking that you have to compete against ebikes while on a classic bike. There's always some line drawn somewhere to keep the playing field even/level, and you are trying to draw one to separate ebike. That's fair. There's no glory in an ebiker winning when they have a machine that makes the competition unfair.

The need to point this out seems to be a personal problem that sport-minded ppl have deal with themselves. Please try to deal with the way you guys are coping with it, perhaps by not being idiotic with your logic and being toxic (toxic = working against the growth of others). Am I blind, not noticing ebikers gloating about anything to instigate this kind of stuff? I notice ebikers bragging about how they use a car less often...



dazzer30 said:


> I think people should understand its only a matter of time before someone gets killed or kills someone else on these Ebikes , then we normally all get punished with new laws on what we can and cant do , i don't mind Ebikes but they should not be going that fast or power full on public land , i would not want to be hit by that on a trail or out walking .


Worrying about others on public land and wanting control? Gun enthusiast spooking trail users, some dog walker's undisciplined dog biting another trail user, or some people on foot setting up an ambush to burglarize another trail user (esp the ones carrying big sticks, assumedly for defense). Don't see them getting banned despite it happening. Already got various types creating/modifying trails illegally, non-bikers setting up booby traps, people destroying natural habitat in some way... gun users already shoot themselves, mtbers already kill themselves, and dog owners already get lots of grief from their dogs.

Reminds me of the kind of regulation that's intended to meet high standards, notorious for raising costs and causing grief, but in this case it's a call for perfection...


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Varaxis said:


> Motorsports are sports. The sport part is just the glorification of mans' capability in physically outperforming each other (and not so much the machine). The problem here is you thinking that you have to compete against ebikes while on a classic bike. There's always some line drawn somewhere to keep the playing field even/level, and you are trying to draw one to separate ebike. That's fair. There's no glory in an ebiker winning when they have a machine that makes the competition unfair.
> 
> The need to point this out seems to be a personal problem that sport-minded ppl have deal with themselves. Please try to deal with the way you guys are coping with it, perhaps by not being idiotic with your logic and being toxic (toxic = working against the growth of others). Am I blind, not noticing ebikers gloating about anything to instigate this kind of stuff? I notice ebikers bragging about how they use a car less often...
> 
> ...


Easy now I just ride. I rarely race. When I do I generally suck at it. But it's a human-powered endeavor.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Ailuropoda said:


> Easy now I just ride. I rarely race. When I do I generally suck at it. But it's a human-powered endeavor.


The need to point this out seems to be a personal problem that sport-minded ppl have deal with themselves. Please try to deal with the way you guys are coping with it, perhaps by not being idiotic with your logic and being toxic (toxic = working against the growth of others).

Reminds me those who get upset about ppl who pass each other on the road (in cars) and those who try to say something like esports aren't real sports. Probably some similarity to how hikers see bikers too...


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

LOL. it's a motorcycle. it should go as fast as you want it too. I want it to do at least a 100mph. If a noob can't handle it then he shouldn't be on it just like a buying a 1000 crotch rocket. stupid is as stupid does.
I wish they made this in an XXL size so I could ride it with all the other ebikes rampaging our local non motorized trails.


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## acer66 (Oct 13, 2010)

Endless videos of people pinning the throttle or flooring it on their brand new motorcycle or sports car and crashing out and now we just have found another way to show off the lack of skills.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

This is just another case of somebody with too much money getting bored. Nothing more.


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## Champion_Monster (Nov 30, 2014)

No torque management and a rearward weight bias? Might as well throw in a crappy three wheeler from 1987 while they're at it. Lawsuit city and I don't have too much sympathy for the manufacturer, such as it is.


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## jestep (Jul 23, 2004)

I had some hipster pass me going about 50 up a hill on what looked like a POS folding ebike with ~16in wheels a few months ago. Makes me wonder how difficult it is for people to mod these things to the point where they're not just unsafe but completely insane.

Separately, there's several companies making e-scooters that will top 80 mph. I've got one that will do about 22 and it's plenty fast.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Francis Cebedo said:


> By now, you may have heard that television mogul, Simon Cowell broke his back this week in an 'e-bike accident'. A deeper look into the equipment involved however reveals that it is no e-bike but rather a motorcycle with about 60 times the power of legal e-bikes.
> 
> 
> Simon Cowell recently broke his back in 5 places as he tried his new, overpowered motorbike for the first time.​
> ...


I've never heard of him and I've been riding and racing for over 35 years.


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## acer66 (Oct 13, 2010)

milehi said:


> I've never heard of him and I've been riding and racing for over 35 years.


I think that he just demonstrated that he has nothing to do with riding or racing which might be the reason you have not heard of him.


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## Myndseye (Dec 24, 2020)

Are you sure the author of this piece isn't named "Karen"? 

The bikes power is irrelevant here. He wasn't even moving. He hit the throttle from a standstill, and it threw him backwards....it could just have easily have happened to him learning to manual, or worse,.. he could have fallen backwards off a horse.

MTBR.....🤦‍♂️ shame.


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## OzarkFathom (Jul 2, 2019)

Most bicycles go over 60.
I am glad they do.
Otherwise they’d take an awfully long time getting to market......


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## Mr Aidy Madd (Feb 23, 2021)

I wouldn’t say the author of this piece is a complete idiot, but he’s not far off. Now I know a lot of you will disagree, but this post doesn’t make any sense. What he is saying is that (in reality), we should ban all vehicles over a certain BHP. So that means no more Ferraris, no more Aston Martins etc, you get the point.
My point is, you are saying this bicycle should be banned because it is too powerful. If Simon Cowell had acted responsibly he wouldn’t have broken his back or even had an accident at all. I have a 600cc motorcycle that will do 0 to 60 in just over 3 seconds, I know it will because I’ve done it lots of times. But if I fully rolled on the throttle in a confined ‘mansion’ courtyard I’d completely wipe out and do a lot more damage to myself and everything around me than that moron Cowell did.
If he’d behaved sensibly the accident wouldn’t have happened, but no doubt he thinks he’s bulletproof and sadly for him, he found out he’s not; which makes me laugh by the way.
I agree there is a place for machines like this, but with care and responsibility this could be ridden on the road, just like any other motorcycle.
Oh, and by the way all you haters out there, what is the definition of a bicycle? And, what is the definition of a motorcycle?
Stumped!? A bicycle is is any vehicle with two wheels. Be they motorised or pedalled.
A motorcycle is a vehicle powered by an engine. Now that engine could be petrol, diesel, coal, steam and of course electric. So logically, any bicycle with a motor; whether it’s a 15kw Swind-E, or a 250w legal bike, they are all motorcycles. It’s just a matter of definition. 
And one last point, your sentence syntax and misspellings are terrible for this day and age.


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## Mr Aidy Madd (Feb 23, 2021)

John_C. said:


> You would think a bike like that would have at least one or more low-power modes to give new riders some sort of a fighting chance. Based on this story, this thing is like a stick of dynamite. Due to the manufacturer's apparent lack of judgement and foresight, I can easily see the company getting sued out of existence.


How do you know it doesn't have a low power mode? Would you floor the gas on a Lamborghini Huracan in a petrol station?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Mr Aidy Madd said:


> Oh, and by the way all you haters out there, what is the definition of a bicycle? And, what is the definition of a motorcycle?
> Stumped!? A bicycle is is any vehicle with two wheels. Be they motorised or pedalled.


So a motorcycle is also a bicycle? Scooters have 2 wheels too, are they bicycles?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

New member starts off by pisssing off all the mountain bikers by claiming any two wheeled vehicle is a bicycle and all the ebikers by saying an ebike is a motorcycle. You're off to a great start!


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

Pish. Here's boss-level back-breaking, forehead-planting E-cycling.









Awesomely Weird Alibaba EV of the Week: An $1,850 electric motorcycle with only one wheel


If your biggest problem with motorcycles is that they are just too darn safe, then I’ve got just the product...




electrek.co


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## acer66 (Oct 13, 2010)

DtEW said:


> Pish. Here's boss-level back-breaking, forehead-planting E-cycling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lets hope they make an off road version too.🤪


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## Dr. G. (Apr 4, 2021)

Hi MTBRs,

I am looking for EB-01 owners for a documentary on e-biking in the US. The documentary is to educate the public on the potential of e-bikes, from positive health benefits to technological advances.

Do you have an EB-01 or know of someone who owns the bike? Do you have a video of you in action on the bike? Please visit E-bike Documentary - A story of the electric bicycle in the United States and let us know.

Greetings,

Gregory
Washington DC


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## ozynigma (May 17, 2006)

Vorman said:


> It's only imbalanced if you're unfamiliar with dirt bikes. It's an electric motorcycle and should be labeled and managed as such. They could electronically make a beginner mode if they chose to. Its not unsafe, it's high performance. If you have ridden a two stroke 250 in and out of the powerband, you get the idea. I'd ride that on dirt bike singletrack and closed courses and if they let me have a plate I'd ride it on the street.


Yes I immediately thought of my novice arse hitting the ground when I tried to get a YZ80 moving 40 something years ago.


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