# Do I need a torque wrench or can I get by without one?



## tlminh (Feb 4, 2011)

I am going to change out my handlebars but noticed the stem has 5-6Nm written on them. 

Can I just hand tighten this? Does everyone have a torque wrench? It's not a common tool in most houses is it?


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## quantumfunk (Nov 27, 2011)

You don't need a tq wrench. If you can put a dab of grease on the hardware before you screw them in though it would be optimal to avoid seizure. Also there is such a thing as too tight and tighten them evenly all around so it doesn't bind in one area.


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## ecub (Sep 3, 2011)

If you're changing to carbon bars, then yes, DEFINITELY use a torque wrench.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

If you're not using superlight components or carbon, you can generally ballpark this stuff okay.

Convert any numbers to inch pounds. That's the pounds of force an inch away from the axis of the bolt.

If you're nervous about it, though, go ahead and get the wrench. For numbers like 5-6 Nm, you need one that has a relatively low maximum torque for best accuracy. Something that goes up to amounts like 60 Nm may be off enough to matter at low values.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

tlminh said:


> I am going to change out my handlebars but noticed the stem has 5-6Nm written on them.
> 
> Can I just hand tighten this? Does everyone have a torque wrench? It's not a common tool in most houses is it?


The only two parts that I havn't been able to reliable tighten without a torque wrench are...

My crank arm pinch bolts....and my external bottom bracket cups....everything else and carbon bars no problems.


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## Spinnyspinspin (Aug 11, 2011)

Yes.


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## Crash Dummy (Jan 21, 2012)

I bought Park Tools TW-1 and TW-6 torque wrenches recently. I built my first mountain bike last spring and I was told just to make sure everything was good and tight without cranking on parts. I bought the TW-6 my mistake since it doesn't go low enough for torquing the bolts that hold the Lowers on my fork, $112 mistake. The TW-1 was only $36 dollars so now I'm covered for just about anything on the bike. Torque wrench probably isn't necessary on a bike with non-carbon parts but its also not bad to have if you plan on building or wrenching on your bikes. Look at it as a good investment.


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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

The TW-1 has been known to be terribly inaccurate.


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## Crash Dummy (Jan 21, 2012)

Do you know by how much the readings have been off? For what I read it had good reviews?


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## 245044 (Jun 8, 2004)

If you want to be a good mechanic, then yes, you should use a torque wrench. 

Can you get by without one? Sure, but when you have a part failure do you really have a baseline idea that the part was installed correctly?


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

mopartodd said:


> If you want to be a good mechanic, then yes, you should use a torque wrench.


This says it quite well.

I like knowing everything on my bikes are correct, which is why I use one.


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## nov0798 (Nov 27, 2005)

quantumfunk said:


> If you can put a dab of grease on the hardware before you screw them in though it would be optimal to avoid seizure.


I completely disagree with this. If the fastener did not have grease on it before hand, do not use grease on it before you tighten it. The reason being is that grease will modify the friction between the threads, and can lead to over tightening something, which is worse. Dont get me wrong, assembly lube IS needed in some applications, but for a bike its not. I have been riding for many years, and have never had a faster seize in any hole on my bikes.

I do agree with using a torque wrench on all components. This eliminates over tightening, and ensures that all the items perform as intended.

Again, just my opinion!

Now a good mechanic, or someone thats been wrenching for years, can "feel" the appropriate amount of tightness for a fastener, but that come from years of experience with turning wrenches.

Bottom line is I would spend the $$ on a torque wrence and just do it right from the start. This way you never have to second guess and wonder if something was tightened correctly. Being a mechanic myself for many years prior, most torque specs give you a range for example 30-60 inch pounds. I have always practiced shooting for the middle of the torque range suggested. So in the above example I would apply 45 inch pounds as this is the middle point between the range. This has always worked for me.


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## h2otaco (Aug 5, 2010)

Ritchey torque key. Preset to 5nm... $10

I only use my Torque Wrench when putting on cranks and threaded BB's.


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## quantumfunk (Nov 27, 2011)

nov0798 said:


> I completely disagree with this. If the fastener did not have grease on it before hand, do not use grease on it before you tighten it. The reason being is that grease will modify the friction between the threads, and can lead to over tightening something, which is worse. Dont get me wrong, assembly lube IS needed in some applications, but for a bike its not. I have been riding for many years, and have never had a faster seize in any hole on my bikes.


I see what you're saying about it modifying friction in the threads, and yes that is the point. It will not change the amount of tq being applied throughout the threads just ensure a very snug fit and the reading will compensate if you use a tq wrench. I guess I didn't stress enough to not over tighten, but to most non-wrenchers a good 45ft lbs will feel a lot less then you think is the proper tightness. I'm sorry you haven't had luck with it, it's always been a big help for every bike I have worked on that eventually came back apart.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

nov0798 said:


> I completely disagree with this. If the fastener did not have grease on it before hand, do not use grease on it before you tighten it. The reason being is that grease will modify the friction between the threads, and can lead to over tightening something, which is worse. Dont get me wrong, assembly lube IS needed in some applications, but for a bike its not. I have been riding for many years, and have never had a faster seize in any hole on my bikes.


Usually torque ratings assume lubricated threads. Therefore, putting grease on the bolt, or better yet anti seize, is the generally the correct thing to do. If the threads should not be lubricated, it will usually be specified.



nov0798 said:


> Now a good mechanic, or someone thats been wrenching for years, can "feel" the appropriate amount of tightness for a fastener, but that come from years of experience with turning wrenches.


The whole "calibrated hands" thing is a myth. Experience can get you in a very general ball park, but the body just isn't precise enough. I think it's more appropriate to say experience will teach you what bolts are torque sensitive and should have a torque wrench used, and which aren't and can be done by hand.


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## nov0798 (Nov 27, 2005)

Maybe I should have been more specific. Yes you can use a lubricant to apply bolts, etc, but the proper lubricant should be used. Dont assume that any old type of grease is a "good for all" lubricant or is the right product for the application.

It seems that Park Tool wants you to use some type of lubricant on all fasteners
Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Basic Thread Concepts

My theory was based on my aircraft mechanic years in which the FAA states "all torque figures, unless otherwise stated, are given with threads clean and dry." Even as a motorcycle/watercraft mechanic for many years, I also never lubed threads unless specifically stated in the manual. And to this day I still dont, only because Ive never had a problem by not doing it. If I remember correctly, I remember reading something in one of my books stating something like "just consider, if the torque is the same for dry verses lubricated, the clamping force will be over double. You then need to consider the ductility of the material you are using." or something like this.

So as always, different industries doing different things more or less relating to the same thing. If I were the OP then follow Parks recommendation.

Here is another on their website that might be useful.
Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Torque Specifications and Concepts


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## Blister Butt (Jul 20, 2005)

I'd say a torque wrench is a good investment if you plan to do a fair amount of your own maintenance. The Ritchey torque key is a good alternative if all you are worried about is getting something in the 5 N-m range. 

Like another poster said, the "hand wrench" technique is a myth.

On the other hand, there was a time when few people other than mechanics used torque wrenches to maintain their bikes and there wasn't a rash of component-failure deaths.

For me, the selling point on a torque wrench was onetime using the "hand wrench" technique on a carbon part and watching helplessly as the part cracked like a hollow chocolate Easter Bunny one time when caffeine or lack of sleep must have interfered with my body's internal calibration.

I ordered my new torque wrench at the same time I was ordering a replacement part.

Good luck!


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## quantumfunk (Nov 27, 2011)

nov0798 said:


> Maybe I should have been more specific. Yes you can use a lubricant to apply bolts, etc, but the proper lubricant should be used. Dont assume that any old type of grease is a "good for all" lubricant or is the right product for the application.
> 
> It seems that Park Tool wants you to use some type of lubricant on all fasteners
> *****Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Basic Thread Concepts[/url]
> ...


The main hardware you need to worry about lubricating is that which is a different material than what it is being thread into so that's why aircraft grade hardware would not usually call for it. I never really considered about clamping force being increased but over double sounds unlikely, but I am not informed enough to disagree. I probably should have implied that a good lubricant should be used not just any old grease, I forget sometimes people don't look into their own options but any waterproof grease will be fine for your average bike.


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## JPWendtinc (Jun 27, 2011)

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that you can easily get by without a torque wrench. Unless you are tightening carbon parts. If you have or are switching to carbon parts, I highly recommend a torque wrench. For carbon parts I use a non adjustable pre loaded 5nm wrench from my LBS. I think it was $25. I worthy investment for bars that cost a few hundred. 

On a side note, if you are a mechanical person and plan on doing your own maintenance, a good quality in/lb torque wrench is well worth it's cost.


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## Spinning Lizard (Nov 27, 2009)

I have seen far more damage done to product with a torque wrench then without. Nothing replaces experience. I have found that most torque wrenches are not even in the ballpark for calibration. The reason the put on the torque spec is to CYA. First thing they will ask during a warranty claim is your torque wrench calibration proof.


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## Spinning Lizard (Nov 27, 2009)

Spinning Lizard said:


> I have seen far more damage done to product with a torque wrench then without. Nothing replaces experience. I have found that most torque wrenches are not even in the ballpark for calibration. The reason the put on the torque spec is to CYA. First thing they will ask during a warranty claim is your torque wrench calibration proof.


I do have 5 different sets of torque wrenches for bikes specifically. 2 of which get sent away each year for calibration.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

Spinning Lizard said:


> ..First thing they will ask during a warranty claim is your torque wrench calibration proof.


not true.

THOMSOM has replaced 1 stem...and is replacing a 2nd even though i (admittedly) was using the wrong* torque wrench.

* wrong = using a TW2 (600 in lb) torque wrench for stems is not a good idea...the TW1 will have better results according to THOMSON customer service


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## TBarnaby (Aug 1, 2008)

I've never used a torque wrench on my bikes and have been riding with carbon bars since the '90s. Not one failure, don't over/under tighten and you should be fine.


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## Sorebuttbiker (May 1, 2011)

The right answer is to use a torque wrench. That being said, I have never used anything but the guttentight method on bikes. Never had an issue but that doesn't make it right. I use a torque wrench religiously when doing automotive work. I should invest in a bike friendly torque wrench but something else always ends up being needed or I just forget about it until the next time I work on my bike.


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## Spinning Lizard (Nov 27, 2009)

CHUM said:


> not true.
> 
> THOMSOM has replaced 1 stem...and is replacing a 2nd even though i (admittedly) was using the wrong* torque wrench.
> 
> * wrong = using a TW2 (600 in lb) torque wrench for stems is not a good idea...the TW1 will have better results according to THOMSON customer service


OK not for you, but in MY experience **** OFF


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## Spinnyspinspin (Aug 11, 2011)

There.


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

If you're use carbon and titanium bits, yes you need a torque wrench. I''ve never used one and have never had a problem. Its just common sense figuring out what is too tight and not tight enough.


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## Bike Doc (Oct 2, 2007)

*It all depends...*



tlminh said:


> I am going to change out my handlebars but noticed the stem has 5-6Nm written on them.
> 
> Can I just hand tighten this? Does everyone have a torque wrench? It's not a common tool in most houses is it?


It all depends...

If you are a ham-fisted lout, or one of those people with a "dead fish", limp hand shake, or are installing a carbon shatter handlebar or some other delicate, foo-foo, weight weenie bar; then by all means, YES!

If none of the above applies, then a reasonable individual should be able to install a handlebar without a torque wrench.

Then again, a torque wrench is not nearly as expensive as an emergency room visit, and may well be in the same price range as destroyed bike parts, and the very fact that you even asked this question leads me to believe that you may have limited mechanical experience, so unless it will cause you to miss meals or get your electric shut off, I would say you might just want to cover your bases, and spend the few $$ to get yourself one.

Treated properly, it will outlive you and your children's children.


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## Blk02 (Apr 15, 2006)

Yes, use a torque wrench. Pretty much all bike components have a torque value specified by the manufacturer either on the product on on the installation instructions. With the industries focus on lighter and lighter components proper torque is becoming more of an issue. Also, just because you have a torque wrench does not mean you are using it properly. If you have a clicker type or any type other than a dial type your hand hold position will effect the accuracy of the torque wrench. Also, you should apply pressure to the torque wrench very lightly and slightly increase pressure until the proper torque value is reached.

Clicker type torque wrenches can lead to over torquing if you do not immediately catch yourself and stop applying pressure when the wrench snaps. This is why I like a torque wrench with warning tones so you can be prepared to release pressure. Using a cheap torque wrench is almost as bad as not using a torque wrench in the first place. Get a good torque wrench from a well known company (Precision Instruments, Snap-On, CDI Torque Products, etc). I use the CDI Computorq3 24-240in-lbs (2401CI3). I spent $260.00 on the torque wrench but it is known to be very accurate and it can switch between Nm, in-lbs, & Kg-cm on the fly without using conversion tables. It also has a great tone system with lights: warning (yellow), correct (green), over (red).

If you don't want to spend this much you can get a dial type torque wrench with an indicator light from Precision Instruments or a clicker type torque wrench from CDI. Spend the money to get a good torque wrench. Don't go buy the Costco $10.00 clicker type torque wrench special (horribly inaccurate and it will become even more inaccurate in a short amount of time). If you spend good money on good parts do them a favor and use the proper tool to install them. If you want a cheap & accurate torque wrench the only option is a beam type torque wrench, but this type will have limited usability due to its size and the necessity to have a clear and level view of the needle.

Checkout this YouTube video:
CDI Computorq3 - YouTube

The torque wrench below is the only thing that will ever touch the delicate parts of my Pivot


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Anyone who thinks their hand, arm, ect., are even close to accurate, are fooling their self. There have been studies of profession mechanics that show that their feel is off generally more than 50% from the correct torque. I'd you want a bolt properly tight, use a torque wrench. It is inexpensive insurance.


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## SpeedStarr (Jan 19, 2012)

I am a newbie around here but have been riding motorcycles for the past 35 years and do my own work on my bikes. I have a couple torque wrenches already for my motorcycles but did not have one in the lower in-lb ranges for my new EX8. 

I looked into the Park and Pedro versions and almost went that route until I found one by BikeHand. It is a 1/4drive torque wrench with 2N-m / 24N-m range and includes 1/4 drive hex bits 3mm - 10mm and T25 torx bits.

I got it on Amazon for $55. A great value IMO. 
Search: BIKEHAND Bicycle Bike Torque Wrench Allen Key Tool Socket Set Kit

I was pleased with it and thought I would pass that info on.


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## lightjunction (May 17, 2011)

ecub said:


> If you're changing to carbon bars, then yes, DEFINITELY use a torque wrench.


For carbon, yes. For aluminum/steel, no. Ideally, you'd want a torque wrench if you aren't familiar with what 5-6Nm feels like, but it's not the end of the world if you don't. You're just running the risk of damaging a few bolts along the way.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

lightjunction said:


> For carbon, yes. For aluminum/steel, no. Ideally, you'd want a torque wrench if you aren't familiar with what 5-6Nm feels like, but it's not the end of the world if you don't. You're just running the risk of damaging a few bolts along the way.


You risk a lot more than that depending on what fails. A torque wrench is cheap insurance.


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## Spinnyspinspin (Aug 11, 2011)

lightjunction said:


> For carbon, yes. For aluminum/steel, no. Ideally, you'd want a torque wrench if you aren't familiar with what 5-6Nm feels like, but it's not the end of the world if you don't. You're just running the risk of damaging a few bolts along the way.


Remind me to never let you wrench on my bike.


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## Mordock (Jan 9, 2012)

I would also recommend getting a torque wrench. As said before, certainly if you have carbon fiber parts. Harbor Freight has some cheap ones that do the trick if you don't want to spend a lot. I have one for 5-80 pounds and it works fine for me.


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

Depends on how much maintenance you planning on doing. I come from a mechanical background and can judge torque very close to spec without a wrench, most can or should not I suppose...

p.s. I still use one


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## firebike7 (Aug 21, 2008)

Torque wrenches are nice to have and they come in handy. I do not think they are needed for allapplications, but I offer this advice. If you are going to get a TW, do not skimp on what you buy. A good TW is expensive for a very good reason. The only cheaper ones I have seen that are not bad are the beam type. They seem to be fairly accurate for the price. I have no experience with the Park models so I have nothing to say. However, Do not waste your money on a Harbor Freight or the cheap Craftsmans unless you have something to measure it by that is accurate. Not that they don't have accurate ones but it is a crap shoot and they tend to lose or move as they age. It would be better to borrow an accurate one if possible than to waste your money. I had to use a HF TW on a job, out of the country, on a island, in a pinch to repair a pump to restore drinking water to an island. The customer was willing to take the chance using it rather than waiting a day to fly in a real deal TW against my precautions. I rebuilt the pump and used their wrench. Their $30 TW saved them about $600 from me having one delivered and if the gamble paid off it restored water 24 hours sooner. However due to the inaccuracies of the TW, It now cost them $12000 (plus air fair both ways) for me to fly old pump home and rebuild it and about two weeks without water waiting for parts. Now the bikes may not be the precision instruments of the things I work with, but for me it is not worth it to overtorque or undertorque a bolt. I would trust my hand over those cheap TW.


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## STT GUY (May 19, 2009)

quantumfunk said:


> You don't need a tq wrench. If you can put a dab of grease on the hardware before you screw them in though it would be optimal to avoid seizure. Also there is such a thing as too tight and tighten them evenly all around so it doesn't bind in one area.


Huh????

Grease and anti-seize compounds are not the same thing.


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