# Magicshine MJ-868



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Anyone laid there mits on one of these yet? Looks nice in the pics

https://www.magicshine.com/product_view.asp?id=94


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Saw the new ad. 
I haven't found a price yet. On the alibaba site they are available in quantities of 20, but it's call/write for pricing.
Not sure how different the internals will be, but the outside looks high dollar.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

> Originally posted by odtexas
> _..., but the outside looks high dollar._


Must be the laser piercing workmanship :thumbsup:

****


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

As with most products, it's what you can't see that counts.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

ThinkBike said:


> As with most products, it's what you can't see that counts.


With lights its what you can see that counts 



I think they'll sell a truckload of these if they are reasonable quality.
But thats a big if.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

hmm, do you think they will have done anything about their batteries and chargers?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Whats a BAK battery?


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Goldigger said:


> Whats a BAK battery?


*B*ombs *A*way *K*ids

*B*lowup *A*ll *K*ompetition (note the Chinese spelling of the Engrish word Competition)

and of course then there is the aggressive marketing tactics of slagging your competition

*B*aja *A*re *K*rap (Engrish spelling again)

and last but not least, the acronym BAK is really short for what eventually happens to all MajicShine batteries

*B*atteries *A*re *K*aput

There's a few others but I don't think they'll get past the mods


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

A quick google..
http://www.bak.com.cn/

There chinese battery's...


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

emu26 said:


> *B*ombs *A*way *K*ids
> 
> *B*lowup *A*ll *K*ompetition (note the Chinese spelling of the Engrish word Competition)
> 
> ...


Now that's comedy. :lol:


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## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*Bombs Away*

*B*ig *A*ss *K*aboom



emu26 said:


> *B*ombs *A*way *K*ids


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

notaknob said:


> *B*ig *A*ss *K*aboom


Barely Able to Kompete


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

From a while back, one of the vendors ( either Gemini or Bikeray ) was pushing the fact that their batteries were from BAK. Supposedly this is the company that supplies batteries to some of the name brand companies that make laptops and other such electronic goodies. Until someone decides to buy one and tear apart the outer covering to do some tests I suppose we really won't know just "how good" they really are. Still, nice looking light. I think they will sell. I like that they put the button on the top. When helmet mounted that will make changing modes a bit easier. With the older version you have to "pinch hold " the light head so it doesn't move when you press the button. This should be better ( unless the light head still moves which in that case ....well....never mind)


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## ozlongboarder (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm waiting for the Cat-Man-Do shower test

Just kidding Cat!

Looks ok. Hopefully the batteries are an improvement.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

ozlongboarder said:


> I'm waiting for the Cat-Man-Do shower test
> 
> Just kidding Cat!
> 
> Looks ok. Hopefully the batteries are an improvement.


*B*loody *A*nnoying *K*at? :ciappa:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ozlongboarder said:


> I'm waiting for the Cat-Man-Do shower test
> 
> Just kidding Cat!
> 
> Looks ok. Hopefully the batteries are an improvement.


Your wish is my command...Now...Do you want the Cat-Man-Do shower test....
or the Cat-Man-Do-Do shower test...


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## wxl (Jul 21, 2011)

Seems they are going to use SAMSUNG batteries for this new model.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

wxl said:


> Seems they are going to use SAMSUNG batteries for this new model.


reference?


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## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

It looks like an overgrown min-newt, and I like it. A bit too shiny though, is that part plastic? Would look 10x better in black anodized with a contrasting color front.


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## jhymel (May 27, 2009)

mattthemuppet said:


> reference?


That's what it says in the brochure. Not that really holds water but that's what it says.


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## [email protected] (Mar 28, 2007)

This may be the nail in the coffin for my home-built lights as a business idea. These look way, way too good. I suspect the insides are the same cheap MS electronics we all know and loathe. If anybody buys a few and would like a teardown by somebody with an Electrical Engineering degree (and way too much experience building current controlled buck converters for high brightness LEDs), drop me a PM.

If I had a way to convince potential customers that it's what in the package that counts I might have a go at selling lights yet. But to make a small profit (less than $40 per light, which seems pretty low for a direct sale on-line web bidnez), I'd have to price my stuff at almost twice what I expect will be the MJ-868 price (probably just a bit more than the original MS). As they say further south, that dog won't hunt.

Screw it. People who want less expensive lights can buy this kind of cheap, potentially dangerous, crud. And everybody else can pay thru the nose for German engineered, high quality lights they can hand down to their grandkids.

The sad part is this will further kill off the kind of bleeding edge, DIY design effort, we've seen on this forum even more than the MS did. Not because it's a better light than stuff developed by folks who post here, but just because it looks better.

Oh well, could have been worse. I could have had 250 units most of the way thru production when this came out. Anybody need a couple of hundred Fraen FRC-N1-MCE reflectors for cheap?

OBL


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## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

IMHO busting out 250 units may be a bit closer to a regular small business than simple DIY stuff anyway, though if there is demand for them why not? Unless you have the marketing to move that many before the next product from CREE makes your lights obsolete then it is going to be difficult to not loose money.

I would not be too concerned about the MS lights though. Folks buying lights from small time DIY builders are not buying on price anyway since they are not usually cheaper, just better and more customizable. There will still be a niche as long as the builders stand behind their stuff and keep making a better overall product, who gives a damn if it's shiny. 

One other thought looking at the MS is that they must be living up to their name, cause that light is light on the fins. To get 1k lumens from a single XML they would need to drive it at least 3A.


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

Maybe I am overly optomistic, but I think that the cheap price of MS lights will encourage more people to use brighter lights than the $50 or $60 LBS 1 watt led.

Then once they are hooked on lumens, the crappy quality will encourage them to stat looking for better built lights and batteries.

I have an MS light & 2 cheap torches, but my next light will be assembled by me.

If I was interested in small scale manufacturing I would be targeting people wanting to upgrade from an MS - ie I would be using the same connectors and 7.4v so that I could say "_your battery has died, well here is a better quality replacement that will run the same light_" and "_your light has died, well here is a new one that runs on the same batteries_".

Lets face it, you are not going to beat China on price, so you need to deliver where they are weak - quality, warranty, customer service or original design.


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## zemike (Sep 3, 2007)

I must admit that the 18650 holders which I offer on easy2led.com are mainly used as a replacement for crappy MS battery packs. So MS can establish an ecosystem with a potential for DIY upgrades.

I see several possibilities:
1) battery packs
2) electronics
3) light heads
4) road-friendly reflectors/optics


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## wxl (Jul 21, 2011)

zemike said:


> I must admit that the 18650 holders which I offer on easy2led.com are mainly used as a replacement for crappy MS battery packs. So MS can establish an ecosystem with a potential for DIY upgrades.
> 
> I see several possibilities:
> 1) battery packs
> ...


Really?


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I suspect the insides are the same cheap MS electronics we all know and loathe.


Remind me again why I am suppose to "loathe" the electronics inside my MS that I've been using for 2 years now, problem free.


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## wxl (Jul 21, 2011)

Anyone know how much is it?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

$210 http://brightstonesports.com/shop/index.php/magicshine-mj-868-1000-lumen-bike-light-set.html


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## mrradlos (Sep 3, 2010)

$201 seams a lot while $44 for the ugly brother seams very, very cheap!!!!


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## wxl (Jul 21, 2011)

Maybe worth a try if with improved quality and samsung batteries.


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## williamsorton (Apr 1, 2009)

The new batteries from BAK are Samsung 2800mA 2s2p for a 5600mA pack. Sounds okay to me, something wrong with Samsung?


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## Road_Runner (Mar 31, 2009)

Haven't seen any at DX yet but you can get one on ebay UK now for £76 including delivery.

Looks pretty enough to get one for teh missus, but the light output might freak her out and anyway she's fixed a wire shopping basket to her handlebars, so mounting it might prove a bit tricky.

Like everyone else here I'd like to take a look inside the light head, but I'm willing to bet that it would be the same old MS build inside.

Hope to be proved wrong though, because last month I bought one of the $45 DX MS clone cheapies as a helmet light and was actually very impressed with the build quality and finish of it.

The Chinese seem to be raising their game somewhat recently, so long may it continue IMO.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Road_Runner said:


> Like everyone else here I'd like to take a look inside the light head, but I'm willing to bet that it would be the same old MS build inside.
> 
> Hope to be proved wrong though,


Why do you say that? There were never really any complaints/issues with the old MS lights, the problems were more with the batteries and the chargers, not the light heads.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

the main issues with the MS light heads are underspecced components, particularly the sense resistor which is used to set/ control the current level. It has too low of a watt rating to save a few cents, so it occasionally burns out and screws up the light. It's not a commonplace issue, certainly no where near as prevalent as the duff battery issue, but it's happened enough times to have various repair threads about it in the DIY section.


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## Khrystyan27 (Jul 3, 2011)

So... Anyone got this new light?

If so, can someone do some MTBR approved nightshots?

Is the same Magicshine quality in this model?

Thanks!


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## ride_monkey (Sep 3, 2011)

There up for sale at cyclomonster.com in the UK, I've spoken to the shop, they are in stock next week, but they only have a few coming in.


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## Road_Runner (Mar 31, 2009)

ride_monkey said:


> There up for sale at cyclomonster.com in the UK, I've spoken to the shop, they are in stock next week, but they only have a few coming in.


And they want £129 for them when they finally get them in stock! :eekster:

That's £53 more than the X-Lights listing on ebay, and he has at least nine in stock at the moment.

I know who I'd rather get one from.


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## ride_monkey (Sep 3, 2011)

I'd seen them there too, couldn't work out why the price was lower than the 872's as its a more expensive light.


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## magicshine.cz (Sep 12, 2011)

*Magicshine MJ-868 pictures*

If you want to see more pictures of Magicshine MJ-868 you can look at it here:
magicshine.cz/magicshine-mj-868-1000lm/


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## Kaplan (Aug 25, 2011)

Do you know the input voltage and output current on MJ-868?


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## Road_Runner (Mar 31, 2009)

It's finally up on DX now for a fairly hefty $131.90.

They claim it works on 12.8v input and 1.8A to the XML LED, so not definitely not the 1000 lumens output which they also claim.


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## Kaplan (Aug 25, 2011)

Road_Runner said:


> It's finally up onDX now for a fairly hefty $131.90.
> 
> They claim it works on 12.8v input and 1.8A to the XML LED, so not definitely not the 1000 lumens output which they also claim.


How can XML handle 12.8v. I asked similar question on my message here forums.mtbr.com/8458673-post10.html I was thinking to make an XML with 1s4p using driver dealextreme.com/p/regulated-cv-cc-led-driver-circuit-board-for-cree-mc-e-ssc-p7-emitters-8-4v-max-input-20330 since XML works arround 3.3v if i am not mistaken.


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## 'BentRyder (Sep 17, 2011)

Road_Runner said:


> It's finally up on DX now for a fairly hefty $131.90.
> 
> They claim it works on 12.8v input and 1.8A to the XML LED, so not definitely not the 1000 lumens output which they also claim.


All of DX descriptions must be taken with a grain of salt... maybe a tablespoon full.

The light has a 8.4V max, 7.2V nominal pack and the current draw is based on the higher voltage. In fact, at 1.8 amps, it is a very hard driven XM-L at nearly 13 watts. The XM-L is rated for 10 watts at 3.35V and 3A.


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## 'BentRyder (Sep 17, 2011)

Kaplan said:


> How can XML handle 12.8v. I asked similar question on my message here forums.mtbr.com/8458673-post10.html I was thinking to make an XML with 1s4p using driver dealextreme.com/p/regulated-cv-cc-led-driver-circuit-board-for-cree-mc-e-ssc-p7-emitters-8-4v-max-input-20330 since XML works arround 3.3v if i am not mistaken.


Although many will argue against it, the 1S4P will work but the emitter will go out of regulation if you drive it hard at 2.5 to 3 amps. You would need a boost driver to make up for the under-voltage condition if you want to maintain a constant brightness. The 2S2P configuration is ideal if you have a quality 3 amp buck driver. Many of the older 3 amp SCC drivers with the big coils would work nicely. DX or Kaidomain are budget sources but I've seen others for a bit more that I would trust more. LCK-LED too has drivers and other interesting DIY pieces. I've purchased from all of these sources and find they are quite useful.

If you drive the XM-L at 1 amp or less, it will self regulate through the NANJG drivers with a 1SnP setup.


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

'BentRyder said:


> Although many will argue against it, the 1S4P will work but the emitter will go out of regulation if you drive it hard at 2.5 to 3 amps. You would need a boost driver to make up for the under-voltage condition if you want to maintain a constant brightness. The 2S2P configuration is ideal if you have a quality 3 amp buck driver. Many of the older 3 amp SCC drivers with the big coils would work nicely. DX or Kaidomain are budget sources but I've seen others for a bit more that I would trust more. LCK-LED too has drivers and other interesting DIY pieces. I've purchased from all of these sources and find they are quite useful.
> 
> If you drive the XM-L at 1 amp or less, it will self regulate through the NANJG drivers with a 1SnP setup.


Any type of linear driver will regulate current constantly as long as the power source is close to Vf of the LED or above. So as long as you're using 1s4p config, I doubt you'll get out of regulation at any time of your ride unless you're doing 24h race with full throttle. LEDs do NOT regulate them selves! They draw as much current there's avaliable from the power source. If you have 1s1p 25C 5000mAh LiPo cell, you'll definitly fry your emitter. So if you hook your XML on NANJG 1000mA driver, means the driver puts out only 1000mA or less(usually 700-800mA) an not that the LED self regulates.


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## 'BentRyder (Sep 17, 2011)

Toaster, I've recently completed some tests regarding this very question. You are very right, as long as the driver supplies the Vf, the current regulators are trimming the output, but once the Vf is insufficient, it is the LED itself that needs less current than the driver is capable of supplying.

For the AMC7135 regulated drivers, the loss across the device is minimal but significant to an LED, ~100-150mv.

In my tests, the XR-E will fall out of regulation almost immediately; the XP-G at 1 amp will regulate thoughout most of the battery life, but once you go over this, say 1.4A, you will go out of regulation sooner while usable battery life remains. The XM-L is rated for the lowest Vf and stays in regulation longer than the XP-G but it too will fall out of regulation once the battery reaches around 3.5V (minus the Vdrop of the regulators). At 3 amps, the XM-L needs 3.35Vf. The light output/current draw drops quickly once the Vf begins to lower.

The key is the battery. The discharge curves of say Sanyo vs Panasonic are signifcantly different. The Panasonics have a very soft knee meaning they have a fairly linear discharge curve specially when driven at higher currents. On the other hand, the Sanyo cells tend to have sharper knees meaning they can hold a favorable Vf longer but they dump suddenly at the end (which I prefer).

This has been true for a long time. In my RC offroad race days, Panasonic had this same problem. They just dragged on forever but their output was limited while Sanyo cells wuld cross the finish line at full force and dump within seconds after that.

Nothing beats a good quality driver that will maintain a solid Vf to the emitter regardless of input. For 1SnP configurations, this requires a buck/boost driver. For 2SnP configuations, this only requires the buck circuit.

Again, at 1 amp drive current, you are right, the 1S works fine on XM-L and XP-G. Don't try it with an XR-E...

Cree XR-E Q5 RegulationTest - YouTube

Cree XM-L RegulationTest - YouTube


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## 'BentRyder (Sep 17, 2011)

...and BTW: People have done 5A tests on a series of XM-L emitters and, with appropriate heatsinking, will survive a direct connect to an 18650 cell. Most only drew 4.5A when directly connected. The Vf of the cell will drop to 3.7V almost immediately. IMR cells might hold up a little stronger but Li-Ion is not known for high current draw. LiPo, on the other hand might be a good alternative. And then there are IMR cells that are also designed for higher discharge rates.


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## Kaplan (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks for explanatory notes BentRyder and Toaster79. Things getting clear in my mind now.


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## Kaplan (Aug 25, 2011)

If i understood well, one thing i know was totaly wrong, since i am a newbie with electrics/electronics. By your notes, i realised the only thing limiting the input voltage is driver, not the LED's Vf. So, i can make 2 or more batteries in series if driver voltage supports. For my first build I have ordered this driver from DX. It has 2.4 A output as i read from comments. So i should run it 2s2P or 3s2P for more constant current, right? 2s, 3s, 4s... does it have a limit as long as driver supports? Is it related with paralels? Like 2s is ideal with 2p and 3s is ideal with 3p... or am i totaly wrong?  What about the voltage difference between batterty and LED Vf, the heat output is related with the difference?

I can run the driver i ordered at 1,88 A by removing a resistor as i read in another topic. Since the heat output and run time is important for me, XML @ 1,88 A with 2s2p is ideal or i can run this setup with 1s4p with a constant current?


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## 'BentRyder (Sep 17, 2011)

Kaplan, that is a 2SnP driver. 2-series is 8.4v on fresh batteries. You can go with as many parallel as you want. Using a 1S (4.2/3.7v) circuit may not drive it hard enough, and more likely never really regulate. Most of these buck drivers want at least 4V. I am not familiar with that driver.

Buck regulators are DC-to-DC converters which change the 8.4/7.2V input to an output that limits the current to the LED. This is why the "tailcap" reading on buck drivers is lower than what is delivered to the LED. There is some efficiency loss in the driver, but most are about 80% or more efficient.

If you want to run an XM-L at only 1.8 amps from a 4.2V source, I personally would recommend the NANJG driver. They are very reliable and reasonably efficient. You can stack the current limiting devices to whatever output you want. The NANJG 101-AK is capable of 1.4 amps but a simply mod will take it to 1.75. Here is one I did to make a 3.15A driver: it has 4 more devices on the backside, NANJG 105C). The NANJG drivers have a max input of either 5V or 6V, depending on who you talk to.


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## mfj197 (Jan 28, 2011)

Road_Runner said:


> It's finally up on DX now for a fairly hefty $131.90.
> 
> They claim it works on 12.8v input and 1.8A to the XML LED, so not definitely not the 1000 lumens output which they also claim.


No idea where DX get the 12.8v from! They really are hopelessly inaccurate with their specs sometimes. It's a 2s2p pack giving 7.4v nominal, 8.4 fresh off the charger.

So, anybody been playing around with one yet?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


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## Kaplan (Aug 25, 2011)

BentRyder,

I think here you talk about customizing your driver.

I couldn't find anything when i search "NANJG", but found a few driver by searching 7135 on KD and DX. I think these are the drivers you talk about. Can't find 1,4A version except ShiningBeam.com. These two from DX are 1A output.

After building my first light with this driver and 2s2p setup, i'll try to make the modified NANJG driver with 1s4p setup as a later project. After now, i think the best way to understand and learn more is buying an amterpeter/voltmeter and make some test like you did.

Thanks for help

Edit: I think these are what i need for a customized NANJG:
AMC7135 1400mA Regulated Led Driver | eBay
Find 10pcs AMC7135 350mA LED driver SOT-89 on eBay Global Buying, with worldwide deals on items in all your top categories


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## 'BentRyder (Sep 17, 2011)

You have the right idea, Kaplan. Yes, most of the NANJG drivers are found with the search "circuit board". The 1.4A driver you found in the edit is a single mode driver.

What is your aim for this light? I'm assuming it is a seeing light only. I am also going to assume you want to lower the output in case of fog/mist to limit night blindness from back reflection.

Last night I ran an XM-L at 3 amps. great light and being cool out, the host remained quite cool. Even at 700ma, this light puts out significant light. The low mode was almost useless... almost (~100ma)

5 mode NANJG drivers are easy to convert to 3 mode. It requires grounding 1 pin on the micro-processor, pin 6. For a more useful mode range for cycling, I suggest bypassing one of the 7135's to the protection diode. This will provide a solid 350ma constantly while adding the remaining modes on top of this. 350-400ma is certainly enough to see by but on the trail, I'd want more.

If modes intrigue you, I will highly recommend the 16 mode driver from Kaidomain. It is a 1050ma driver with a space for a 4th AMC7135. Then, a 5th could be stacked on top as in the previous picture (The 5th one is glued onto the two using arctic silver epoxy for heat transfer). The easiest was to do this is to buy 2 drivers and salvage the components. This driver is in fact a 17 mode driver. The groups are great. It essentially makes it all the best; a 3 mode, a 5 mode, or a 9 mode driver. That is my review on the site.

Of course, you can also go with the 8x 7135 drivers and remove some of the devices. It is probably the cheapest way to go: http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=10995
Modes are easily locked in with jumpering the stars.

Are you doing this project is a flashlight host, or are you doing a wired solution? The spring is a little short on the 8x version. Just as a note.


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## 'BentRyder (Sep 17, 2011)

BTW: I think this thread has officially been hijacked... maybe you can start a new thread with your build thoughts.


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## Kaplan (Aug 25, 2011)

'BentRyder said:


> BTW: I think this thread has officially been hijacked... maybe you can start a new thread with your build thoughts.


You are right. *I am sorry*, didn't let me to open a new thread unless my message count is 10. I think i am ready now 

My aim for this light is a seeing light on the bike bar, not an obtrusive light as you already guess. An XML with 1.5-2A will be enough forever from beamshots. I'll also make my own housing. Maybe i go on with different projects as a hobby later, like flood and throw together. I'll buy the driver you suggest and short spring will be removed, thanks for the note 

So the thread hijacking is over here by the message count 
I'll open a thread for building, after i complete ordering the tools i need.
Thanks for the hands, especially BentyRider.
cheers


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Available from DX MJ-868 CREE XM LT6 3-Mode 1000-Lumen White LED Bicycle Bike Light (4x18650 included) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

$131.90


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Another new magicshine..MJ880
Twin XML
https://www.magicshine.com/product_view.asp?id=103


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

I would suggest that one is clearly only intended as a bar mount light.


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## JezV (Oct 31, 2009)

MJ-868 looks too retro for my taste. Reminds me of a scooter light. Like the look of the MJ-880 though


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

880 looks great. Want some beamshots and price though.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

This aussie site list it but no price..
Magicshine MJ-880 2000LM Spot/Flood Combination Light. PRICE TBA
But they do have this for $159 aud
Inton NB-04 2200LM Spot/Flood Combination Light









Pic source is from alibaba as i couldnt get a image off the site above..
1000lm magic super bright bike frame light products, buy 1000lm magic super bright bike frame light products from alibaba.com

the little battery pack on the alibaba site is pretty cool..(for a different light)


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Found the 880 on ebay..
£130 Magicshine MJ-880 LED Bike Light Torch MASSIVE 2000 LUMENS!! upgrade from mj-872 | eBay

And the inton nb-04 with beamshots
£115 Inton 2x XM-L T6 2000 Lumen Road bike light | eBay

Inton 2000 Lumen LED Bike Light 2 x CREE T6 with Helmet Strap | eBay


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## was8v (Apr 27, 2005)

These look good.

Has anyone bought in bulk direct?


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