# Motobecane Sturgis / Night Train Thread



## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Since the trend seems to be to break away from the massive and hard to read/hard to follow generic Moto fat bikes thread, I figured I would start one for the Sturgis & Night Train.

I have a Night Train Bullet on order. Looking forward to it showing up, unfortunately, the reciept I have shows a ship date of 11/05. Other folks had ones earlier in October. 

Anyway - Three questions to get this ball rolling:

1 - Are you going to change anything right off the bat?
2 - Did you buy for winter, sand, trail, or all?
3 - What date did your ship notice show?


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

edit


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

*1 - Are you going to change anything right off the bat?*
- I've got a reverb that doesn't fit any of my existing bikes, so that will go on
- Saddle/bars/grips. I know what works for me and I'm pretty sure what it comes with isn't it.
- Tires are a maybe.

*2 - Did you buy for winter, sand, trail, or all?*
Snow. I'm sure I'll bring it out for some trail rides done at a social pace. I don't expect it to become my "go to" bike though.

*3 - What date did your ship notice show?*
Mine shows Oct 28th as a ship date. I don't think it means much though. They'll all go out within a matter of days once the pallets arrive at BD. I ordered mine at a time when they were adjusting the estimated ship date. I think the ordering system just hadn't been updated yet.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

car_nut said:


> *1 - Did you buy for winter, sand, trail, or all?*
> Snow. I'm sure I'll bring it out for some trail rides done at a social pace. I don't expect it to become my "go to" bike though.


All conditions riding! I already have Easton Haven stem and post, RXL 720mm carbon bars, ESI grips, Prologo seat ready to go on.

Spring time will call for lighter wheels and hopefully 27.5 tires to get it ready for the trails...can't wait!

Also can't wait for the snow to fly (never thought I would say that) but this will be the 1st winter on a snow bike for fat bike for that matter...Bring it!


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

pearsth said:


> Anyway - Three questions to get this ball rolling:
> 
> 1 - Are you going to change anything right off the bat?
> 
> ...


1 - Are you going to change anything right off the bat?
*Bars, saddle, stem, grips, etc...point of contact, cockpit fit type stuff. 
Actually considering purchasing a Framed Alaskan Carbon frame for a switch out. 
As this is my first FB, I'm waiting for a minute to test it out and be sure about sizing before going forward with this one...hard to be patient though :thumbsup::thumbsup:*

2 - Did you buy for winter, sand, trail, or all?
*I live in NorCal so it will be a trail bike. Not much snow/sand riding where I am. Might get up to Tahoe once in a while for some snow but not regularly.*

3 - What date did your ship notice show?
*Oct 18...hoping the possible delay they emailed about doesn't happen but prepared if it doesn't come until late Oct.*


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Long time reader... First Time Poster

On fence to pre-order still. This'll be my first new MTB since middle school (20 years ago) I'm still rocking my Trek 7000 hard tail.

That said.... new bike lust is high with this bike, have ridden a few fat boys and farleys. Really wanting a bluto equipped fat tire bike, and the specs on this bike make it worth it for the components alone.

If i do order, I'll likely change nothing right off the bat, to get a feel for the bike, and then in order go 1x10 w/ WolfsTooth/OneUP 42 tooth, Seat, Grips.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

WSUPolar...I warn you. I had a 97 Stumpjumper and finally bought a new bike - 2010 Stumpjumper Carbon Expert. Was an amazing upgrade, but broke the seal o years of holding back. Since then, bought am Airborne Wingman for dirt jump, and now the Night Train Bullet is on order. Too many bikes, too little time.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

pearsth said:


> Anyway - Three questions to get this ball rolling:
> 1 - Are you going to change anything right off the bat?
> QUOTE]
> 
> *Forgot to add that I have already upgraded my wheelset. Got a great set built up by mikesee. I9 hubs and Mulefut rims with Bud/Lou combo. Maybe overkill for NorCal dirt :eekster: but whatever...it'll be fun:thumbsup::thumbsup:*


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

Just changed to Sturgis Bullet White 10/28. (Green non-bullet Sturgis cancelled) I'm just getting into cycling. I'm liking the skinny tire road bike and want to continue riding into the winter so Fat seems like a good way to go. From what I can tell, the bike is setup fine the way it is and I won't know what to add or change until I ride the thing.


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## tinkerbike (Sep 21, 2014)

Black Night Train ordered! Looking forward to riding the snowmobile and ski trails this winter here in Maine! ...and it just might become my year round trail bike, too!


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I have a Sturgis Bullet on order. Ship date was late October but then got an email about it probably going into November.

1 - Are you going to change anything right off the bat? - Yes. My pile of parts for bikes I do not have yet is getting silly. I have carbon bars (Bontrager XXX, XT brakes, FSA Seatpost, grips and tubeless stuff already).
2 - Did you buy for winter, sand, trail, or all? Bought this one as a winter bike. I will be going rigid and putting the Bluto on my Salsa Bucksaw frame once it comes (Jan delivery).
3 - What date did your ship notice show?

I was tempted to get the red but ended up with the charcoal.


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

As tempting as the prices may be, this guy reviewed a Night Train prototype- granted it had double-walled rims, but at 37 lbs with no pedals...wow that is a lot of bike to be pushing around.

First Ride: 2015 Motobecane NightTrain Bullet Fatbike | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

That's true. I wonder though with the brake and rim upgrade, then a seat post, stem, handlebar, saddle switch and a split tube what the weight could be for just a couple hundred more dollars.


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

I'm sure the excess weight is more in the frame. Part of the deal when its that much cheaper. I may end up with one of these because name brand bikes are too much money. I just looked at new KTM 300 Xcw for $7000 out the door so why the hell should a bicycle cost in the same neighborhood as a fully decked out enduro motorcycle?


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

There's a guy who knows nice dirt bikes! KTM makes some really nice stuff.

I don't mean to knock the Motobecane stuff either- just kind of thinking out loud. Even buying a Fatboy Expert, for example, and adding a Bluto yourself (and a hub, etc.) you are likely pushing $3,500.00.

Certainly it'll be lighter than a Sturgis or NightTrain...but, is it worth more than twice the price? I don't know.


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## GaryBee (Jul 5, 2007)

One thing I found in the comments section is that the author mentioned that the production bike would have lighter tires.

He also menitoned that he had hoped to post the final review before Interbike but some last minute part swaps (like adding Guide brakes which will be shipping with the Night Train) have delayed things a bit.



NDTransplant said:


> As tempting as the prices may be, this guy reviewed a Night Train prototype- granted it had double-walled rims, but at 37 lbs with no pedals...wow that is a lot of bike to be pushing around.
> 
> First Ride: 2015 Motobecane NightTrain Bullet Fatbike | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

That's true. And with the lighter wheel set, and maybe putting in some lighter tubes (Q-Tubes?)...or, of course, tubeless.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I was active in the MB thread back in August when trying to figure out what to order, especially size-wise.

Did anyone notice the new sizing chart on the Night Train/Sturgis? I am 5'8" and almost always ride a "medium" or 17" frame. Which all happens to be about 585-590mm effective top tube. When I ordered in August, the 15.5" had an ETT of 593mm. The 17.5" had an ETT of 598mm. When I emailed BD to question the paltry5mm difference in a 2" larger bike, they said "due to the fat tires, we can only make a frame so short without toe overlap". So I ordered the 15.5" for the extra standover.

However, on their website now, the 15.5" has been updated to a 575mm ETT! (17.5" remains at 598mm) Which will be far too short for me. Anyone who could decide between the 15.5 or 17.5" frame and decided on the 15.5", I would strongly recommend you go back and review the geometry chart again now that they've updated it. The 15.5" now falls in line with my original expectations of size with a very short 575mm ETT.

I've now changed my order to a 17.5" frame as a result.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

neons97 said:


> I was active in the MB thread back in August when trying to figure out what to order, especially size-wise.
> 
> Did anyone notice the new sizing chart on the Night Train/Sturgis?
> 
> However, on their website now, the 15.5" has been updated to a 575mm ETT! (17.5" remains at 598mm) Which will be far too short for me. Anyone who could decide between the 15.5 or 17.5" frame and decided on the 15.5", I would strongly recommend you go back and review the geometry chart again now that they've updated it. The 15.5" now falls in line with my original expectations of size with a very short 575mm ETT.


Argh!!! :madman: That is pretty frustrating to find out. I wonder if they ever intended to tell any of us that have orders in for the 15" now 15.5"?

Checking the specs compared to my current ride, it seems I should be on the 17.5" as well. In reality, I think I could fit either size with a stem adjustment but I don't want toe overlap. I wouldn't mind the extra standover and just getting a longer stem either.

To those in the know...what are the pros/cons of going with the smaller size when you are a tweener?


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Hi All. I have a Sturgis Bullet on order. Anyone know what the rim size is? Here is what is on their website:

WEINMANN	HL80 ALLOY SINGLE WALL 26" x 73/80xH24 , 26x3.0-4-1/2 ,32H,W/FV BLACK ANOD.W/O EYELET , W/O CNC , W/ BIG HOLES ( 32mm ) / 14Gx64PCS STAINLESS W/BRASS 14MM NIPPLE.

Does this mean 80mm? Thanks.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Yeah it is an 80mm rim.

I will disagree about the Motobecane frames being heavy - at least the one I have. I have a Fantom 29er Pro and stripped it down to the frame and it was very light. Under 4lbs for a large size frame. Not too bad for a budget frame. Obviously with the wider profile the Sturgis/NT frames will be heavier but not by too much. The Boris weights seem to be coming in at normal fat bike numbers, given the build spec. I have new bars and seatpost coming - the MB ones are very heavy.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

thanks for the reply. I haven't even gotten the bike yet and I'm wondering if 29+ wheels will fit. Anyone with any thoughts or guesses?


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

beachbum1 said:


> thanks for the reply. I haven't even gotten the bike yet and I'm wondering if 29+ wheels will fit. Anyone with any thoughts or guesses?


I am guessing they will, but I'm holding out for some mid sized 27.5 alum rims to be released. Possibly the Hugo or similar setup under 65 mm wide. Also waiting for a decent tire in the mid 3's to match up with tweeter rims. This bike comes stock setup for snow and sand, but it will sail thru the trails with better wheels and tires!


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

How come there is no small frames (15.5) with the Bluto?


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

bcriverjunky said:


> How come there is no small frames (15.5) with the Bluto?


Sold out maybe? I had a 15.5" Night Train Bullet ordered back in August. Then changed my mind and confirmed a 15.5" Sturgis Bullet. And now went to a 17.5" (non-bullet). Unless this is another change that the 15.5" won't clear the Bluto fork anymore due to the updated geometry.


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

Anyone know if the surly ice cream truck fork will fit the bullet models in place of the bluto? From what I can tell it should.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Surly ICT /483mm axle to crown, 47mm offset. Now all you have to do is find out the NT #'s


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

neons97 said:


> Sold out maybe? I had a 15.5" Night Train Bullet ordered back in August. Then changed my mind and confirmed a 15.5" Sturgis Bullet. And now went to a 17.5" (non-bullet). Unless this is another change that the 15.5" won't clear the Bluto fork anymore due to the updated geometry.


So there was some listed. Guess I'll keep waiting.


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## dwilson (Dec 8, 2006)

I have a white 19” on order. As for changes? I’m a single speed guy so I will consider converting the Bullet to SS and selling the extra parts. If I really like it I might pick up a Carbon frame unbranded and move all of the parts over I need and sell off all of the extra stuff. So far as I can tell the Bullet with Bluto is about the best deal out there, if there is a better one I haven’t found it.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Would anyone care to comment on why they for for the sturgis or night train? Are the upgraded tires and brakes worth it? I guess higher tpi tires are better? I have a sturgis bullet in order but am now considering upgrading for the extra $200. I would love to get some thoughts from anyone who has them. Thanks.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

beachbum1 said:


> Would anyone care to comment on why they for for the sturgis or night train? Are the upgraded tires and brakes worth it? I guess higher tpi tires are better? I have a sturgis bullet in order but am now considering upgrading for the extra $200. I would love to get some thoughts from anyone who has them. Thanks.


Better brakes makes a big difference on heavy bikes. That and the upgraded drive train was worth the extra $200 for me.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

That's great to know. I don't have any experience with fat bikes so I I'm buying blind to some degree(aside from online research of course.)


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

It looks like by upgrading my order from Sturgis to Sturgis bullet, I'm losing the series of 3 bolts on each side of the fork. I wonder if I'll miss that?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I went with the Sturgis Bullet - mostly because of cost and I will probably end up swapping the brakes to Shimano anyway (already have 5 MTB's in the house with Shimano brakes), tires and rear derailleurs are consumables - I will have to replace them anyway. Either bike is a great deal, but having already bought 3 new bikes this year AND putting a deposit on a new Salsa Bucksaw I figured the $200 saved was a better option for me than the X9 stuff.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Parts on the Night Train that are "better" than the Sturgis:

Price Comparison On Amazon.com
Rear Derailer - x9 vs x7 (About $30 difference)
Shifters - x7 vs x5 (About $12 difference)
Brakes - Guide RS vs Tektro Draco (About $170 / pair difference)

Price Comparison on eBay
Tires - 120TP vs 72TPI (Around $50 / pair difference)

So, for $200, getting around $262 retail "better" stuff to upgrade to the Night Train. Keep in mind that that is the DIFFERENCE in price buying new. Not the price to replace something with an upgrade. For example, if you want to upgrade the tires to 120TPI, you are looking at spending $150-$200. At that point you've blown it assuming you don't mind the Vee Snowshoe for a 120tpi tire. I doubt you could sell the "take offs" at full retail price to get to the $50 difference. Likewise for the rest of the parts, especially the brakes.

If somebody is trying to determine what to buy, I would say if you are like the poster above and plan to swap things out, get the lower priced version. If you are like me, and plan on riding "as is", the $200 may be worth it - assuming the Guide RS are that much better and the weight of the tires matters to you. I will say that I have Tektro Draco brakes on my jump bike and they work just fine and don't give me any issues. However, that is with 26" wheels on a bike that I just play around on and don't ride much. Fat Bike mileage may vary.

Tom


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

neons97 said:


> Unless this is another change that the 15.5" won't clear the Bluto fork anymore due to the updated geometry.


Do you have information that this is true? Or just speculating?

I haven't received any info from BD about this but would be really unhappy if there ends up being a clearance issue for the Bluto.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

OnThaCouch said:


> Do you have information that this is true? Or just speculating?
> 
> I haven't received any info from BD about this but would be really unhappy if there ends up being a clearance issue for the Bluto.


Purely speculation in the absence of any official information. But it would be odd that all 15.5" frames sold out before the more traditional 17"/19" sizes.

However, the new frame geometry of the 15.5" is truth according to their latest frame geometry on their website.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

neons97 said:


> Purely speculation in the absence of any official information. But it would be odd that all 15.5" frames sold out before the more traditional 17"/19" sizes.
> 
> However, the new frame geometry of the 15.5" is truth according to their latest frame geometry on their website.


I hear ya. When I ordered mine it was a 15" not 15.5". The "silent" geometry change with a lack of contacting anyone that ordered one when the old geo charts were up is pretty lame. I have an email into BD about changing to the 17.5" as it is now closer to my current rig.


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## dwilson (Dec 8, 2006)

Since this is an experiment in fat biking for me and I will likely change out to SS I stopped at the Bullet with Bluto fork. I was going to go rigid but reviews of the Bluto seem favorable so that's where my extra money went. If and when I get different tires I will want the choice of the market.


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## GaryBee (Jul 5, 2007)

Chose the Sturgis Bullet as I plan to replace the tires and can use the $200 saved (vs the Nighttrain Bullet) towards those. But I had to think about this for a while as all of the bikes seem like great deals making it hard to choose.

By the way here is the stock as of this morning. To check stock just add about 10 to your cart and press "check out" it comes back with how many are available.


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## dwilson (Dec 8, 2006)

Sturgis/Night train suspension corrected? Any of you geometry guru's have thoughts on if the frame is as lively with a suspension fork as without. A friend rode the new Trek Farley with Bluto and said it was razor quick. The Bullet/Night train frame and Farley have the same seat/head tube angles. In the pictures it looks set back more vs. the non suspension model.


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## GaryBee (Jul 5, 2007)

Singletracks Final Review of the NightTrain Bullet is up and it goes into a bit more detail as to how the bike rides.

"Steep climbs were a cinch, and I didn't really need any of my usual tricks to avoid breaking traction while ascending slippery roots and loose rocks. Rock gardens that normally required concentration to maintain a reasonable line were navigable on autopilot. Steep, rolling drops felt less daunting; I was, after all, riding on a pair of donut-shaped marshmallows. Chunky, fast descents were a breeze thanks to the Bluto suspension fork."

Final Review: Motobecane NightTrain Bullet Fat Bike | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Only about a month to go.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I have officially upgraded from sturgis to night train!



GaryBee said:


> Singletracks Final Review of the NightTrain Bullet is up and it goes into a bit more detail as to how the bike rides.
> 
> "Steep climbs were a cinch, and I didn't really need any of my usual tricks to avoid breaking traction while ascending slippery roots and loose rocks. Rock gardens that normally required concentration to maintain a reasonable line were navigable on autopilot. Steep, rolling drops felt less daunting; I was, after all, riding on a pair of donut-shaped marshmallows. Chunky, fast descents were a breeze thanks to the Bluto suspension fork."
> 
> ...


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## hoobash (Oct 2, 2007)

If I got a sturgis and I want to get a ice cream truck frame in the future could I swap all the parts over? It seems the rims are the same size. How about the crank and bb?


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

hoobash said:


> If I got a sturgis and I want to get a ice cream truck frame in the future could I swap all the parts over? It seems the rims are the same size. How about the crank and bb?


The BB is a definite no. The crank is a maybe. It should fit but you might need some ~2mm spacers.
The lower headset is a no. Not sure about the upper.
The seatpost and saddle clamp are a no. The front derailleur looks to be a no.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

hoobash said:


> If I got a sturgis and I want to get a ice cream truck frame in the future could I swap all the parts over? It seems the rims are the same size. How about the crank and bb?


I got my Sturgis Bullet ordered, then test rode a Salsa Bucksaw at a demo day. I thought, hey I can buy the Bucksaw frame and swap all the parts over. Seemed like a good idea, but the only parts that will really swap over are front wheel, Bluto (I hope the steer tube is long enough), rear derailleur and shifter. I ended up just buying all new parts for the Bucksaw - and several upgrade parts for the Sturgis. 
I really hope the Bluto will work, but then I need to find a rigid fork that will fit the Sturgis, but should be cheaper than a $550 Bluto.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

I received the following email from BD today. Looks like the NT/Sturgis are en route to the states. More bikes and separate frames/forks due the beginning of next year. (bold added by me)


> Hi, Thank you for pre-ordering a New Motobecane FatBike.
> 
> Many customers have the idea that we get bikes from just one factory. The fact is; we receive bikes from 3 different factories in Taiwan and 3 different factories in China.
> 
> ...


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

nice!


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## doctor_spaceman (Sep 6, 2014)

SO EXCITED!!!! now I just have to keep myself occupied until the end of the month.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I am glad they put the bit about the CF Sturgis forks in January. That is about the time I will be needing one! And being a BD product I know it will be reasonably priced.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

So if I regret getting a Bluto I can order up an aluminum one in January? I wonder what color forks they'll have?


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## Tin Turtle (Sep 6, 2012)

pearsth said:


> Anyway - Three questions to get this ball rolling:
> 
> 1 - Are you going to change anything right off the bat?
> 2 - Did you buy for winter, sand, trail, or all?
> 3 - What date did your ship notice show?


Purple Night Train, Size 19

1) Grips, Saddle, some nice flats, Surly rack.
2) Mostly winter but I would imagine it will see some summer use too. It just looks too fun.
3)10/27-11/10


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

Orange Sturgis, Size 17.5

1. Thomson seatpost that I had laying around from upgrading to dropper posts on other bikes, Avid DB3 brakes and rotors that I got on Ebay new for $31 shipped...apparently nobody likes white brakes anymore. San Marco Aspide saddle, 700mm Carbon Ritchey handlebar, 50mm Truvativ stem or 70mm Syncros stem whichever feels better, light-weight tubes from pricepoint, probably will swap the nipples to anodized aluminum for kicks since I have so many kicking around. 

2. Mostly winter here too (Maine.) So many snowmobile trails that I have ridden for years on old 2.7 Nokian Gazzalodis but this should be much better and hopefully keep me somewhat fit through winter so I am not such a slug come spring. I really look forward to trying it in summer although I have been a devout full-sus-tons-of-travel rider since my first Heckler in 1997.

3. 10/20-10/28


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Which rubes at pricepioint? Have a link?

Anyone guess what the stock ones will weigh?


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

Price Point Tube | Inner tube | Presta | Schrader | Valve

I will get schrader and drill the rims because I can't tolerate presta valves and when I go tubeless I use the 949Racing valves. I will get the 2.25-2.5 tubes. I have one left over that I pumped up to about 5" in diameter without being in a tire and it has been fine for over a month now. They stretch enough.

My guess at stock tube weight: too much.

Also, If someone is looking to upgrade the bar (as stock probably weighs a ton) price point has the the Easton Haven bar in low rise 711mm width for only $28 and uncut it is 270g which is respectable for an aluminum bar. I have had one on my Butcher for a year and a half and I love it, stiff and I dig the polished aluminum look. The finish is durable but the white and black graphics come off somewhat easily. But for $28 a name-brand bar that is fairly light can't be beat. Easton Haven Lo Rise 711mm 31.8 Limited Silver Handlebar | Easton


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

Only a couple weeks out now...someone has to be getting excited. I know I am. I was hoping for a suprise 6" of snow; we got that much on Halloween two years ago but right now we are still having days in the mid-70's. 

Like someone said in another Motobecane thread, I don't think I would have been thinking of upgrades if I didn't have to wait for it.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

My ship window opened 4 days ago, so I was hoping for mid October delivery. Sounds like early to mid November is most likely. Slightly disappointing, but I will get over it.

Trying to decide on an accent color that would make it pop. I've already got a shorter stem for it. Definitely getting some nice flats, a dropper, grips, and maybe bars. And a 4.0 Nate for the snow.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Yeah...well, don't get too excited. The date range is wider...Oct 27 - Nov 10. So, could come to you as late as 11/17 (or later, especially if they all show up in Texas on Nov 10) depending on where you are in the country.

Since these come signature required, that almost always screws me up. Those guys ring the doorbell, throw the sticker on the door, and run like hell back to the truck to meet their delivery quotas. That means I have to wait until the weekend to get the bike.

I am setting my expectations to being happy if I get the bike before Thanksgiving so I am not too disappointed if that happens.. 

Tom


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

AllMountin' said:


> My ship window opened 4 days ago, so I was hoping for mid October delivery. Sounds like early to mid November is most likely. Slightly disappointing, but I will get over it.


What makes you think that it will be so much later? My window is the 20th to the 1st I think but I haven't received any sort of notification that it will be delayed. I assumed it would be the tail end of the time frame but of course have some small hope that it will be at the early end.

I did notice that the 17.5 Sturgis is sold out in both colors so I am ggd I ordered when I did.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

silvbullit said:


> What makes you think that it will be so much later? My window is the 20th to the 1st I think but I haven't received any sort of notification that it will be delayed. I assumed it would be the tail end of the time frame but of course have some small hope that it will be at the early end.
> 
> I did notice that the 17.5 Sturgis is sold out in both colors so I am ggd I ordered when I did.


A while ago some folks that ordered early were sent an email about a possible 2 week delay due to sourcing issues.

My original ship date was/is Oct 18. I am not planning on it shipping until the end of the month. If it comes earlier, I'll be pleasantly surprised.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

I posted the estimated ship date from BD in post #48. Current schedule is October 27th to November 10th.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Here is the letter from BikesDirect in case you didn't get it... It was sent on 10/7.


Hi, Thank you for pre-ordering a New Motobecane FatBike. 

Many customers have the idea that we get bikes from just one factory. The fact is; we receive bikes from 3 different factories in Taiwan and 3 different factories in China. 

The Factory that produces the Sturgis, Night Train, Lurch, and Boris The Brut FAT BIKE models is unsurpassed in quality by ANY factory in Asia. However, like all bicycle factories, their volume and experience with Fat Bikes is limited. Fat Bikes are after all a small and relatively new market. 

Our first run of Lurchs sold out and reviews by customers have been fantastic overall. However, we felt packing could be improved. Therefore, our CEO had the factory slow down production, increase inspections, and improve packing. In order to meet shipping requests, the factory had workers over time during the weekend. 

Great News; the Sturgis and Night Train models are on the way. Better News; we feel there are no higher quality aluminum Fat Bikes produced. 

Based on latest shipping confirmation these bikes could arrive at our Dallas warehouse anywhere from October 27th to November 10th. We wish that links in the distribution chain was as predictable as links in a bike chain. Of course, ocean vessels, trains, longshoremen, US Customs, and local truckers all have their own ideas on timely execution of their duties. 

We are very excited to see the customer response to these bikes. 

In January, Sturgis Bullet framesets will be available AND an extra shipment of complete Sturgis / Night Train bikes. Also in January, we will get Sturgis AL forks, Sturgis Express CF forks, and Lurch chrome-moly forks. 


Thanks again, 


Order Processing Team at Bikes Direct 


Be Safe and Have Fun


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Here is the text from the email I received on August 13.


Hi, Thanks for being a smart cyclist and saving hundreds on your new Motobecane FatBike. 

Update on your order - these incredibly fun Fat Bikes are nearly pre-sold out! Wow! Due to production timing and availability, specialty Fat Bike parts are in short supply. Major parts suppliers have communicated minor delays so these are running a little later than projected. Even though it's only about 10 to 11 days later, we wanted to make sure you were made aware of this possibility. There is a small chance they will not be delayed but we are updating the arrival dates on the site just in case. If this is a deal breaker for you, PLEASE LET US KNOW RIGHT AWAY AND WE CAN REFUND YOU IN FULL. 

Thanks again for being a smart cyclist and saving hundreds off your new Motobecane FatBike. 

Best regards, 

The Friendly Folks at Bikesdirect.com


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Anyone looking ahead to the spring and summer and thinking about what tires to put on these bad boys? Anyone going to keep the snowshoes on? I'm thinking maybe knard 3.8s.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

I find it odd that I never get any of these update emails at all.


As far as tires I am going to run the stock ones to the cords since fat bike tires are so damn expensive.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Check your spam folder....


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

ordered the sturgis bullet, since I waited too long to pull trigger on night train.. ... I plan on tossing on one floaters during the summer,, i've been real happy with them on my pug for the last two years... and the cost is more gentle on the wallet


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

A little off topic....

Would any of the current Stages powermeter crank arms work with the stock Samox crank arm on the Night Train?


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## Jonesy22 (Mar 21, 2011)

Anyone have a MatteSilver NightTrain Bullet? Wondering how it looks in person. Really wanted the matte black but no stock ;(


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Go to the first page of this thread. I posted a pic of a matte silver fantom29. Should give you the idea.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Jonesy22 said:


> Anyone have a MatteSilver NightTrain Bullet? Wondering how it looks in person. Really wanted the matte black but no stock ;(


They have pics of the actual matte silver on the site. They were updated from the photoshopped ones a little while back.


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## Jonesy22 (Mar 21, 2011)

Anyone know if the seat post is internal routing for a dropper? Such as the integra?


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## Jonesy22 (Mar 21, 2011)

Someone cancel their medium or large order for the matte black NightTrain bullet so I can order one lol


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

I have a Sturgis Bullet gunmetal gray metallic in 19 inch on order. 

I have a Easton EA70 400mm seat post and a Specialized Henge seat ready to go on it. I also have a spare X9 type 2 medium rear derailleur I may install if I don't like the x7 long RD. I will probably get a 750mm bar and shorter stem at some point. 

I will try tubeless with gorilla tape and homemade sealant.


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## Jonesy22 (Mar 21, 2011)

Well pretty upset. Went ahead and tried to buy the silver and it wouldn't let me. Said sold out even though its in the drop down box.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Jonesy22 said:


> Well pretty upset. Went ahead and tried to buy the silver and it wouldn't let me. Said sold out even though its in the drop down box.


Some thing happened to me with the Boris. The drop downs do not get updated as often as their stock changes. You should reach out to them to see if there is a wait list in case some people cancel orders.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Soon to be added to the BD aresenal...Night Train Frame/Bluto combo...

From their FB page...

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bikesdirect/122199864367

Bikesdirect

2 hours ago.

#Motobecane #Sturgis Bullet #Fatbike Framesets Will Be In About January 15th
SIX Custom Metal Flake Colors

FrameSet Sale Price Includes Rockshox Bluto And Headset
(no wheels or other parts)
$1995 Value - These Will Be $895

#fatbikes #mtbr #bikerumor #pinkbike #fatwallet #bicycling #mountainbikeaction #cycling #slickdeals #fatwallet


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## Jonesy22 (Mar 21, 2011)

Ive called and begged lol..No luck. If i wait till mid Jan. winter will be half over..


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## doctor_spaceman (Sep 6, 2014)

The Date Approaches!!!!!

I ordered a17.5" Sturgis Bullet in Gunmetal Grey. ship date 11/05(but im hoping for sooner so I could maybe catch the last weekend of riding at mountain creek)

I plan on swapping the saddle for a brooks cambium

and trying out a dropper seat post for the first time [this seems like a decent inexpensive one](Amazon.com : DNM Mountain Bike Dropper Seatpost Remote Lockout 330mm : Bike Seat Posts And Parts : Sports & Outdoors).

planning on going tubeless

and swapping a shorter stem, maybe a 70mm


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## Jonesy22 (Mar 21, 2011)

Anyone buy the NightTrain and a bluto separately? Go on ok? Thinking of doing this since all the Bullets are out of stock till Jan


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

I am not sure if anyone noticed but the Motobecane website shows the headtube angle at 69.5 and BD lists it as 70. I kind hope for the slack measurement to be correct. I haven't owned a bike steeper than 67 degrees in over a decade.

My solution to a dropper on the fatbike will be a Salsa QR seatpost collar. Strava be damned.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

The photo for the WR Green Sturgis has also been updated to reflect the correct brakes, the 72dpi Snowshoes, and single-wall rims from what I can see.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Anyone converting to 1 by 10? I'm thinking of getting a next sl and swapping from the beginning. Maybe I could get a few dollars for the samox crankset.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

beachbum1 said:


> Anyone converting to 1 by 10? I'm thinking of getting a next sl and swapping from the beginning. Maybe I could get a few dollars for the samox crankset.


Yes most likely after winter riding. Could also just pony up 30 bucks for the NW chainring and slap it on the Samox. :thumbsup:


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

True. I don't have the legs for that. I would need to get a 42t cog for that cuz I would think the smallest front chainring that is possible is a 30t correct?


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

beachbum1 said:


> True. I don't have the legs for that. I would need to get a 42t cog for that cuz I would think the smallest front chainring that is possible is a 30t correct?


Yeah only 30T on the single ring...direct mount on a Next or Turbine cinch would allow 26, 28T. Been seeing successful fat bikes with the 40-42 cog conversion too. I think 1 x 10,11 makes sense for a lot of riders and can be done... Go for it!


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I have a next SL on my other mountain bike and love it. I go back and forth. It makes more monetary sense to go with a 30t up front and a 42t in back but then I'm looking at $150 for something that may have chain line issues(I've heard chain drops with back pedaling) or slow shifting into the smaller rear cogs. I'll pay triple the price for a next sl with a 26t front ring with a smaller range but I know it will work. Hmmmm.....


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Zero


beachbum1 said:


> I have a next SL on my other mountain bike and love it. I go back and forth. It makes more monetary sense to go with a 30t up front and a 42t in back but then I'm looking at $150 for something that may have chain line issues(I've heard chain drops with back pedaling) or slow shifting into the smaller rear cogs. I'll pay triple the price for a next sl with a 26t front ring with a smaller range but I know it will work. Hmmmm.....


Go with he new turbine cinch with a direct mount and save $250 over the next sl. I like the next sl but can't justify the 1/4 lb savings for about $250.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

1x is still useless to me. I love to chug up technical uphills even if a little trials maneuvers are required but the trails here also have plenty of moderate downhills that you have to pedal for if you want to get going 25+ mph and anything smaller than a 34t will spin out.

I get trying to simplify but I have never had a front derailleur fail on a ride and the gearing range seems worth the "clutter."

It must be that northeast trails are tougher and the buff superhighway singletrack out west allows for higher gearing. When I lived in Colo Spgs 25 miles was a solid ride and back here in Maine 12+ miles pretty much poops me out.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Anyone see the Boris Bluto they now have?

Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Boris X9 SRAM

I originally wanted a Boris X9 (rigid) but they were sold out, so I went "all in" and went Night Train Bullet. I am thinking of switching over to the Boris X9 Bluto now that they have it with the Bluto, and for $300 less.. Looks like the major difference is only the brakes.

Thoughts?


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

pearsth said:


> Thoughts?


The big difference is 170 vs 190 rear hub spacing. If 4" tires are the widest you want, go Boris. If you want 4.8", go Night Train/Sturgis.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Put in my order for a jet black night train. Excited for these bad boys. Those SRAM guides are great. Felt them on an enduro this past weekend and I'm glad they are coming on the fat bike!


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

I just ordered a Night Train Bullet Yesterday. They weren't available in the 21M for some time and somehow for a very short time they were yesterday. We'll see if one shows up...they did send me a tracking number
Looking at Big-O fenders since I plan to ride mine in the riverbed allot. Looking for feedback on that if anyone has experience with them.

Been riding roadies since 83, this will be my first offroad adult bike....pretty stoked about it.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

I paid using PayPal and I did not get a tracking #. Does this mean they are already shipping?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Tonggi said:


> I paid using PayPal and I did not get a tracking #. Does this mean they are already shipping?


I would follow up with BD. When I ordered mine, I got a tracking number right away. Hasn't shown any activity/movement since then but I think that has been their process.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

I ordered Sunday night. Their site says an email within 24 hours yet nothing in spam folder or regular folder. I'll reach out to them


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I got an email today about Bikesdirect and was all excited thinking maybe the bikes had gotten to them early. Nope, just a request for a review of my purchase from Bizrate... I am counting down the days! The pile of parts in packages still has gotten quite large, although most of them are for my Bucksaw build that I still have to wait another two months for. :-(


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

I bought this thinking it would be better than a cold conductive aluminum handlebar.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

November 10th Ship date! Can't wait


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I have a carbon set of bars and I will be very tempted to put them on the Sturgis once it gets here but then I will have to buy another one for the Bucksaw... I guess it is only money - I have not bought a set of bars for the Sturgis yet, but I keep looking and bidding on E-Bay. The ones I have are Bontrager XXX, I have the same seatpost and it is 31.6 so will not fit the Sturgis.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Tonggi said:


> November 10th Ship date! Can't wait


Still up to 2 1/2 weeks until they receive in their warehouse. Then 2-5 days for them to unload, inspect and process. Then another 2-5 days for the first ones to get across the country. This is if there is no delay in their shipping/logistics channels enroute from Asia. So up to another month.

I'm under promising and over-delivering on myself by telling myself November 21st, so if I get any notice earlier than that, it'll be like an early Christmas.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Double Post....


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

neons97 said:


> Still up to 2 1/2 weeks until they receive in their warehouse. Then 2-5 days for them to unload, inspect and process. Then another 2-5 days for the first ones to get across the country. This is if there is no delay in their shipping/logistics channels enroute from Asia. So up to another month.
> 
> *I pre-ordered in August.* I'm under promising and over-delivering on myself by telling myself November 21st, so if I get any notice earlier than that, it'll be like an early Christmas.


I pre-ordered in August as well. My Framed Alaskan Carbon frame is supposed to ship late Nov./first week of Dec. I might as well just wait and switch over the parts without even taking the Night Train frame for a spin.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

OnThaCouch said:


> I pre-ordered in August as well. My Framed Alaskan Carbon frame is supposed to ship late Nov./first week of Dec. I might as well just wait and switch over the parts without even taking the Night Train frame for a spin.


I would not have the discipline for that! I will probably have mine unboxed and built within a few hours of UPS dropping it off. 

No matter what time it is I am going for a ride - I have a 1200 lumen headlamp and a 2000 lumen handlebar lamp.


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## gjbiker (Oct 21, 2007)

The last correspondence from BD on Oct. 7 says they expect to get the NT and Sturgis bikes in the warehouse between October 27 to November 10. Has that been refined? I was hoping to have a bike in my hands by Veterans day Nov. 11 because I have that day off :-(


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

neons97 said:


> Still up to 2 1/2 weeks until they receive in their warehouse. Then 2-5 days for them to unload, inspect and process. Then another 2-5 days for the first ones to get across the country. This is if there is no delay in their shipping/logistics channels enroute from Asia. So up to another month.
> 
> I'm under promising and over-delivering on myself by telling myself November 21st, so if I get any notice earlier than that, it'll be like an early Christmas.


Whoa that's a lot of added days. Luckily I'll have my trail bike to keep me busy till then!


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## HydroManEd (Aug 15, 2014)

I CANT WAIT ,ordered the Sturgis Bullet , after upgrading a Dolomite a little


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## Tin Turtle (Sep 6, 2012)

I am showing a 11/10 ship date - black Night Train.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Patience young Jedi! :rockon::rockon:


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## Tin Turtle (Sep 6, 2012)

I am wondering which Old Man Mountain rack fits the Night Train. I cant figure out if it is the one for the Pugsley or the Moonlander.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

neons97 said:


> Still up to 2 1/2 weeks until they receive in their warehouse. Then 2-5 days for them to unload, inspect and process. Then another 2-5 days for the first ones to get across the country. This is if there is no delay in their shipping/logistics channels enroute from Asia. So up to another month.
> 
> I'm under promising and over-delivering on myself by telling myself November 21st, so if I get any notice earlier than that, it'll be like an early Christmas.


Last word from BD on Oct 7:

"Great News; the Sturgis and Night Train models are on the way. Better News; we feel there are no higher quality aluminum Fat Bikes produced."

"Based on latest shipping confirmation these bikes could arrive at our Dallas warehouse anywhere from October 27th to November 10th. We wish that links in the distribution chain was as predictable as links in a bike chain. Of course, ocean vessels, trains, longshoremen, US Customs, and local truckers all have their own ideas on timely execution of their duties"

Lets hope the earlier date proves to be the case...fingers crossed


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

Anyone with prior pre-orders like this know if they will be telling us when the shipment arrives? I currently don't have any torque wrenches. Any recommendation on which ones to get? I assume I need one for big and one for little. I was thinking of getting a park tool one for small torque measurements and a lower priced highly rated one from amazon for the heavier stuff. I gave away my automotive one with the needle before I moved a few years ago. Also I can't find the post where someone knew what kind of socket is needed to get the SAMOX crank off (assuming it's possible) so I can grease it up and inspect the bearings before riding? I did already pick up a Torx 25 bit.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

A cheap Harbor Freight 1/4" torque wrench is all you need - along with a set of metric allen sockets.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

ETChipotle said:


> Anyone with prior pre-orders like this know if they will be telling us when the shipment arrives? I currently don't have any torque wrenches. Any recommendation on which ones to get? I assume I need one for big and one for little. I was thinking of getting a park tool one for small torque measurements and a lower priced highly rated one from amazon for the heavier stuff. I gave away my automotive one with the needle before I moved a few years ago. Also I can't find the post where someone knew what kind of socket is needed to get the SAMOX crank off (assuming it's possible) so I can grease it up and inspect the bearings before riding? I did already pick up a Torx 25 bit.


You will not "need" a torque wrench to assemble the bike out of the box, though it is highly highly recommended. Since there is no carbon parts, the risk of over-torquing is greatly diminshed. Anything generally more than finger tight + 1/2 turn on an allen key is probably going to be over-torqued/stripped.

To build the bike out of the box, you will likely need:

- 3mm, 4mm, 5mm and 6mm allen key. (tighten headset preload, tighten stem, bar, seat on seatpost), adjust angle of bar/saddle and control components.
- Something to mount pedals, depending on your pedals. Either an 8mm Allen Key or a 9/16 pedal wrench or a correct sized open ended wrench if your pedal has enough clearance for a regular wrench
- Pump to pump up your tires. Capable of using a presta valve, or a presta to schraeder converter if you only have a schraeder valved pump
- Lithium or waterproof grease to grease the seattube/seat post before insertion to avoid future seizing of seat post in seat tube
- T25 torx wrench to install front rotor onto front rim (or they could include allen head bolts...but the general industry standard is the T25 for rotor mounting bolts)

To take the SAMOX crank off, you likely won't need a socket at all. All you should need is a 5mm allen key to undo the two bolts on the non-drive-side crank arm. Likely a plastic bearing pre-load nut is in the end of the axle that you'll need to remove. There is a special tool for that, but you could get it out without the special tool. And possibly a rubber mallet to punch the crank axle through the other side. The crank will come right out.

If you want to get the bottom bracket completely out of the frame, you will need an external bottom bracket tool made by any number of bike tool manufacturers. There is no substitute, so you will need to get this tool to remove the bottom bracket. Anything made for Shimano HollowtechII, Sram GXP, RaceFace X-Type, etc. will be compatible. Do not get the tool for BSA30 bottom bracket cups that are used for Rotor, Enduro, ZIPP or RaceFace Cinch bottom brackets. Depending on which brand of tool you buy, the tool could also include the pre-load nut tool (mentioned above).


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

neons97 said:


> There is no substitute...


Except for a pair of wide-mouth Vice-Grips!


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

The bike does not come with a shock pump for the Bluto...as you will most likely need to adjust pressure for your weight. BD tried to sell me one off their site, but it's $35, and I can get a RS one cheaper. Yep, the bottom bracket should be pulled and greased, as BD is notorious for shipping out too dry shells. Hoping the Guides are pre-bled and working properly, but have also heard these brakes may need attention initially. May also change out the tubes for lighter ones that can be filled with sealant, as I know the stock ones weigh a ton. Check all bolts and mech cable tension...should do it!


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

When it gets colder out, am I going to have problems keeping the chain from getting clogged with ice? Should I expect any chain/derailleur problems when temps are down between 10 and -10 Fahrenheit? I can probably avoid riding in temps below that without skipping a month of riding. I saw a 10 year old thread about someone who had good luck spraying the chain with LPS 3 (which is something I keep around)


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Tin Turtle said:


> I am wondering which Old Man Mountain rack fits the Night Train. I cant figure out if it is the one for the Pugsley or the Moonlander.


As the Pugsley and Moonlander both have 135mm rear spacing I am not sure either rack will work on the Sturgis/Night Train. The Moonlander may be able to be stretched to fit as it is made to go around the same 4.7" tires on the BD bikes.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

In 20+ years of riding in the snow and occasional running water crossings I can comfortably say that I have never had one time when ice has accumulated on the chain. I din't really ride if it is much below 20 Degrees F so that could be part of it.

Meanwhile, we currently have snow in the forecast for the weekend so BD had better hurry up and ship these suckers out!


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Never has snow/ice build up on the chain but have had the front derailler ice solid where it was unable to shift. This was urban riding in Chicago in snow/muck. Not a big deal - I just didn't shift up front (I tried to free it by breaking the ice chunks off but cable had frozen). Worked fine once the bike thawed out.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

we don't freeze/thaw much here. so maybe if it comsfortably below freezing, nothing can melt enough to freeze up the drivetrain.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

I have a nighttrain bullet on order.. and I was contemplating swapping parts over to a chinese carbon fatty frame so i posed the question of what frame I should look at that would best fit the parts off the nighttrain etc.. some people were saying that the listed spacing off the bikesdirect website of 190x12mm is incorrect and that its actually 197x12mm.. can anyone confirm what the spacing actually is etc..?


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

I apologize if this has been covered already, I've been through most of the pages. 

The sturgis bullet lists - VEE RUBBER26X4.5 Snow Shoe SBK 72TPI Foldable
The night train lists - 
VEE RUBBER26X4.5 VRB370 Snow Shoe SBK 120TPI Silica Comp. Foldable Light weight
Problem is I can't seem to find this 72tpi tire anywhere. I'm wondering what the weight and quality difference is between the two tires is. 

I'm not really a fan of sram brakes so that and an x9 rear deraileur are the only difference between the two bikes. 

Regards,
Curtis 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

manchvegas said:


> I have a nighttrain bullet on order.. and I was contemplating swapping parts over to a chinese carbon fatty frame so i posed the question of what frame I should look at that would best fit the parts off the nighttrain etc.. some people were saying that the listed spacing off the bikesdirect website of 190x12mm is incorrect and that its actually 197x12mm.. can anyone confirm what the spacing actually is etc..?


From email from BD. I asked specifically because I was having a wheelset built for my NT Bullet. Emphasis from BD.

Hi Tom,
R/HUB(FH) 
T NOVATEC
D202SB-X12MM *ALLOY REAR DISC HUB 32H.OLD:12x197MM *, 4 CHINESE BEARINGS,2RS , FOR SNOW BIKE , W/O THROUGH PARTS , POLISH ANOD. BLACK W/NOVATEC LOGO 
Thanks,
Chris


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

trailwerks said:


> I apologize if this has been covered already, I've been through most of the pages.
> 
> The sturgis bullet lists - VEE RUBBER26X4.5 Snow Shoe SBK 72TPI Foldable
> The night train lists -
> ...


I thought the vee website shows about 100g difference between 120tpi and 72tpi. 120tpi will be lighter, should be more supple (theoretically) but also more prone to punctures.

The Sram guide brakes are apparently very good. Xt level. Not the avid juicy or elixir crap.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

That is interesting that the reply from BD is clearly cut and paste...but from where? When you look at the bike specs for all of the Nighttrain bikes and the Sturgis bikes (same frame) and both the frame and hub descriptions say "12x190" as well as Motobecane's own website...which, as I mentioned earlier, also lists the headtube angle at 70.5 and not the 70 that BD lists.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

silvbullit said:


> That is interesting that the reply from BD is clearly cut and paste...but from where? When you look at the bike specs for all of the Nighttrain bikes and the Sturgis bikes (same frame) and both the frame and hub descriptions say "12x190" as well as Motobecane's own website...which, as I mentioned earlier, also lists the headtube angle at 70.5 and not the 70 that BD lists.


I went back through my emails from BD and that is lifted from the spec sheet they sent to the factory for the build. When I was working with the guy who built my wheelset (Mikesee here on mtbr) he mentioned that the hubs would either have to be 190QR or 197TA. A 190TA hub would be a new "standard" versus the current available offerings of fat bike hubs.

I think this confusion falls into the same category as BD initially posting a much longer ETT measurement on their website for their 15" NT then changing it to the correct shorter measurement without emailing any customers or noting that the measurement changed.

None of us will really know until the bikes are in our hands and can take real world measurements.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Here is the cut and paste from the email I got from BD with the build spec info. before I asked for more clarification on the hub spacing. Emphasis mine.

Hi Tom,

Please see the following I pulled from the factory build sheet.

DROPOUTS(DO) 
Q65-GP56-10 ALLOY VERTICAL W/POST DISK MOUNT,W/REPLACEABLE HANGER . O.L.N:*197MM( W/O 3.5mm WASHER X 2 PCS )* , W/ALLOY 7075 QR 12x229xM12xP1.75 ) # 09-QR-00001-1 ) , BLACK ANOD.

R/HUB(FH) 
T NOVATEC
D202SB-X12MM ALLOY REAR DISC HUB 32H.OLD:*12x197MM* , 4 CHINESE BEARINGS,2RS , FOR SNOW BIKE , W/O THROUGH PARTS , POLISH ANOD. BLACK W/NOVATEC LOGO

R.HUB THRU QR C
KINESIS ALLOY 7075 QR 12x229xM12xP1.75 ( # 09-QR-00001-1 ), BLACK ANOD. , ATTACHED ON FM

Thanks,
Chris


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

OnThaCouch said:


> Here is the cut and paste from the email I got from BD with the build spec info. before I asked for more clarification on the hub spacing. Emphasis mine.
> 
> Hi Tom,
> 
> ...


Someone should email them back and ask them why their website says something different. Also, if they confirm the discrepancy, they should be told to change it immediately on their website. They seem to add bikes and pictures on their website pretty regularly. I can't imagine it would take more than 10 minutes of their time to change the rear axle and hub info.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I thought 190 was the rear spacing, 197 just means it has a thru axle, just like a normal bike with 135 vs. 142 rear spacing. The hubs are still 135, just have the end caps for thru axle...

I am getting very impatient. Selling one of my other bikes today so I will not have to figure out a place to put the new bike.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

Oh no selling a bike..I hope my girl doesn't get any eyes on this thread. She will say if others are capable of selling bikes, than so am I. But I am not. I just let buddies that are new to riding borrow mine so it looks like the herd is thinned...to her anyway.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Destr0 said:


> I thought 190 was the rear spacing, 197 just means it has a thru axle, just like a normal bike with 135 vs. 142 rear spacing. The hubs are still 135, just have the end caps for thru axle...


What I interpreted from what Mike C was telling me when getting my wheelset specs together was that the 190TA would be a "non-standard" (my words, not his...not that there is a rear spacing standard for fat bikes yet) setup. Most designs are either 190QR or 197TA.

I am not sure why BD would put the 190 spacing all over their website and then have the 197 spacing on their spec sheets but in my dealings with them, there is a lot of "right hand not knowing what the left it doing" kinda things.


----------



## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

I wonder how the shipment is going. Tomorrow is the 30th. Anyone with ship dates of the 30th on here? Mine is Nov 10


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Tonggi said:


> I wonder how the shipment is going. Tomorrow is the 30th. Anyone with ship dates of the 30th on here? Mine is Nov 10


My original ship date was Oct 18. Never received any updated ship date. Hoping to see some movement soon, but not holding my breath. Planning it won't ship until Nov...that way I'm not disappointed.


----------



## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Mine is Nov 5. I posted on their Facebook page asking for an update, have not heard anything yet.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

My shipping date is Nov 7th on my updated order (changed from L to XL size).


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

My ship date was October 17th and I ordered in July. This thread fails to deliver, just like BD. 

I keep checking, thinking maybe today is the day, to no avail. I emailed Novatec about the pricing/availability of the 12x197 and 15x150 hubs. I don't see them listed on the usa site yet. Hopefully not too much over their other offerings.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

My ship window just passed according to my order confirmation email. "Sturgis || Prepay ships Oct20-28"

I guess they missed the boat. Haha pun intended.


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

From their Sturgis page as of today: "Pre-Order Bikes will be in our warehouse to ship out to you by Oct 30 to Nov10th (approx. may be early or late by a couple days) May ship a few days earlier or later than expected date range."

So between that and earlier emails indicating a (very slightly) earlier date in warehouse, I'm hoping for movement in the next week and a half.

Ship dates on original orders (for pre-orders) mean nothing.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

I am going to use some reflective tape on the rims for rim strips. Do I need 2 or 3 inches wide?


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

I have a shipdate of the 30th as well.. checked the tracking # today an nothing... I brought up the hub spacing thing as I was looking at swapping parts from my nighttrain when.it shows up over to a chinese carbon frame.. but it seems as though I need to wait till all this hub spacing crap gets confirmed by someone with one in their possession. This craps confusing...


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

BD will likely post on the FB page when the bikes arrive in their warehouse, just like they did for the Lurch.

However, what I don't like is that the website now shows Oct. 30-Nov. 10th, but the email we first got was Oct. 27-Nov. 10th. So clearly, the bikes are later than the two week delay. I just wish BD would communicate to their customers.

I also posted on their FB page asking for a status update and no response yet.


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

Destr0 said:


> My shipping date is Nov 7th on my updated order (changed from L to XL size).


How tall are you? What made you decide to switch to an xl? I'm torn between the sizes. I'm right at 6'3"

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

trailwerks said:


> How tall are you? What made you decide to switch to an xl? I'm torn between the sizes. I'm right at 6'3"
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I changed my order after riding a Salsa Muk in L and XL - they have very similar geometry to the Sturgis. The XL felt right. I currently ride a L Motobecane Fantom Pro 29er and I have a 20mm setback post and a longer stem than I would like to get the cockpit right. I also ordered a Bucksaw frame in XL and am going to swap the Bluto over to it (I did 5 miles on a L and XL Bucksaw as well and the XL felt right) so wanted the longest steer tube. Still crossing my fingers it will fit or I will have to spend another $540 on a second Bluto (vs. $100 for an ICT fork or similar).

I am now 43 - in my younger days I liked a smaller frame that felt more nimble and I came from riding 20" back in the day. Now that I am older my back doesn't like a smaller frame.


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## GaryBee (Jul 5, 2007)

From BD Facebook page this morning

Good Morning, Eager Fatty-Fans! We mean Fat Bikes, of course!

We are watching the Sturgis and Night Train containers closer than any other we've had before. The ocean freight company just alerted us that they 'moved to rail'.

Our directions to forwarder are to move to our Dallas warehouses as that is quicker than going to Houston warehouse on this route (and much quicker than going to our Jacksonville warehouses).

Rail time can be as little as 2 days and as long as 7. We have local truckers altered that we want 'hot shot' pull and delivery. We will unload, sort, inspect and ship all the same day by bringing in extra help once these arrive.

All four models: Sturgis, Night Train, Sturgis Bullet and Night Train Bullet have been in high demand.

We expect the shipment of Sturgis Bullet framesets [due Jan 15] and Sturgis Bullet & Night Train Bullet complete bikes [due Jan 31] will all sell out quickly; especially after the first load is received by customers who will pass the word along.

So, if you have even the slightest interest, we highly recommend you take a look at our hot new bikes before it's too late to snag one!


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

so by that, looks like a week or 2 out from my door! Woot!


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## shappy (Oct 27, 2014)

Is the Night Train able to accommodate a rear rack? I don't see any mounting holes.


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Woohoo. Hurry up and get those puppies on the road. The snow is starting to fly in Tahoe!
Somebody mentioned being like a kid at Christmas and that's exactly how I feel!


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## shappy (Oct 27, 2014)

shappy said:


> Is the Night Train able to accommodate a rear rack? I don't see any mounting holes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To follow up on my own post, does anyone know if this quick release adapter will work on the Night Train:










Tubus QR Adapter | Bike Bag


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

shappy said:


> To follow up on my own post, does anyone know if this quick release adapter will work on the Night Train:QUOTE]
> 
> The NT is a thru-axle front and rear.


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## shappy (Oct 27, 2014)

OnThaCouch said:


> shappy said:
> 
> 
> > To follow up on my own post, does anyone know if this quick release adapter will work on the Night Train:QUOTE]
> ...


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

That QR adapter will not work on the Sturgis or Night Train because they do not use a quick release skewer in the rear. It is a 12mm Thru axle.

I would wait until we start seeing these frames as the pictures are of pre-production prototypes and the actual frames may have the rack mounts.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

190mm hub, skewers won't be long enough.
Sent from my Nokia Stupid Phone using Tapatalk


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## shappy (Oct 27, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> That QR adapter will not work on the Sturgis or Night Train because they do not use a quick release skewer in the rear. It is a 12mm Thru axle.
> 
> I would wait until we start seeing these frames as the pictures are of pre-production prototypes and the actual frames may have the rack mounts.


BD customer service told me that the frames have no mounts, upper or lower.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

It seems the Sturgis/Night Train frame is "performance..." dare I say "KOM" oriented. For rack mounts and more of a Mukluk/Moonlander experience it looks like the Lurch or possibly the Fantom would be the bike.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

I plan to add a Specialized Command Post dropper seat post to my Sturgis Bullet. Does anyone know if the Sturgis frame supports an internally routed seatpost cable? I know that the Sturgis frame has internal cable routing, but I don't know if that applies to the seat post as well?

I've found 2 command posts locally, but one (The IR model) requires internal cable routing.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

The cassette for the Sturgis Bullet is described as "SRAM	CS-PG-1030 11-36." Is that the one that has individual rings, and it bends up the hub causing play? Should I be thinking of upgrading the cassette, not because of weight, but to avoid bending up my hub? I suppose replacing that part of the hub isn't so expensive, but might be an unnecessary cost. Is this a non-issue?


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## Aceldama (Jan 18, 2005)

ETChipotle said:


> The cassette for the Sturgis Bullet is described as "SRAM	CS-PG-1030 11-36." Is that the one that has individual rings, and it bends up the hub causing play? Should I be thinking of upgrading the cassette, not because of weight, but to avoid bending up my hub? I suppose replacing that part of the hub isn't so expensive, but might be an unnecessary cost. Is this a non-issue?


According to this post in the Lurch Lounge you are correct: freehub damage

It looks like the cassette rings are not joined and the hub body is soft.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

hartzpad said:


> I plan to add a Specialized Command Post dropper seat post to my Sturgis Bullet. Does anyone know if the Sturgis frame supports an internally routed seatpost cable? I know that the Sturgis frame has internal cable routing, but I don't know if that applies to the seat post as well?
> 
> I've found 2 command posts locally, but one (The IR model) requires internal cable routing.


There is no specific internal routin for a dropper post. However, if you removed your front derailleur for a 1x setup, you may be able to make the fd cable routing work for your dropper post.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

I have had aluminum freehub bodies forever and the cassette rings will only dig so deep and then they can't go any further. The little ridge of aluminum builds up and hits the "ceiling" of the cog and stops. The only pain in the ass is that the cassette is harder to remove but if the hub isn't piece of crap (I am more concerned that this guy already has crunchy hub bearings after 50 miles of riding) you won't need to take the cassette off very often anyway. Prep the cassette mating surface with anti-seize and it will make it easier to remove and add a little "material" with all of the graphite in the compound.

You could also get real techy and avoid buying more stuff by getting two or three long 3mm bolts and drilling out the larger cogs, tapping the last one and tying them together like the old Shimano 7-speed cassettes used to be.

Once I get the bike I will immediately pull the hub and measure the bearings and order some higher end cartridge bearings for when the stock ones die.


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## coot271 (Sep 15, 2010)

This may be superficial and off current topic, but, whatever. I like the purple on the nighttrain, but that color only comes on the non-bluto model. I really like the sturgis bullet in red, but prefer the better upgrades on the N/T bullet. I hope that BD sales folk read these threads cuz the N/T bullet needs the purple. That would be a fine looking fatty. Maybe you could order the rigid purple N/T and ask BD to install the Bluto for same price? My guess would be no, but maybe worth asking. I know the Lurch comes/came (haven't seen any on the website) in purple, but I prefer the alloy-framed, thru-axled (both ends) N/T and sturgis frames.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

I keep ranting here because I want my bike to come and this is like meds...

Just buy a sturgis..the only worthwhile upgrade on the NT is the 120 tpi tires. An X7 rear derailluer is actually a few grams lighter than an X9 and feels the same. The shifters are probably heavier so a wash there. You can get a set of new Avid DB3 brakes (I would rather have dual piston brakes instead of the quad piston pains in the ass that are the Guides) for $60 shipped on EBay with a little patience which you must have because it seems like we are waiting an eternity for these things!


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

Patiently waiting for my red Sturgis Bullet. Picked up a few upgrades for it:

One-Up Components 42T conversion
Specialized Command Post Blacklite, $175 local classifieds
Specialized Henge Saddle, brand new, $20 local classifieds

Plan to go tubeless, buy a large frame bag and ride the wheels off. I'm also thinking that I will likely want to reduce the Bluto from 120mm to 80mm or 100mm.


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

coot271 said:


> This may be superficial and off current topic, but, whatever. I like the purple on the nighttrain, but that color only comes on the non-bluto model. I really like the sturgis bullet in red, but prefer the better upgrades on the N/T bullet. I hope that BD sales folk read these threads cuz the N/T bullet needs the purple. That would be a fine looking fatty. Maybe you could order the rigid purple N/T and ask BD to install the Bluto for same price? My guess would be no, but maybe worth asking. I know the Lurch comes/came (haven't seen any on the website) in purple, but I prefer the alloy-framed, thru-axled (both ends) N/T and sturgis frames.


For awhile the NT bullet wasn't available and I was literally moments from purchasing the NT and an aftermarket Bluto and just before doing so I checked and several NT bullets had magically appeared. Back to the aftermarket Bluto...don't remember the website but it was listed for 525 but when I added it to my cart it had a price of 475. Granted that's 175 more but it still beats a sharp stick in the eye. btw I'd already requested them getting me a bluto at their bulk price but they wouldn't bite.


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

jensenusa has the e.13 fat bike TRS+ crankset for $149 (reg 330+)....picked one up today for the NT Bullet since the crankset and the seat seem to be where they went cheap. I'll post up how the swap went....hope to be riding it next weekend.


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## Jonesy22 (Mar 21, 2011)

I'll sell you my new take off db3's off my farley 8


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## danny31292 (Jul 20, 2011)

gurleyman said:


> jensenusa has the e.13 fat bike TRS+ crankset for $149 (reg 330+)....picked one up today for the NT Bullet since the crankset and the seat seem to be where they went cheap. I'll post up how the swap went....hope to be riding it next weekend.


Is that crank compatible with 190mm rear spacings?


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

danny31292 said:


> Is that crank compatible with 190mm rear spacings?


Yessir, according to Charles schnieder of the hive


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

OK...was checking my shipping tag tonight and UPS says my tag was voided by the shipper. Anyone else get this notification? I did change sizes but never received an updated shipping notice so I am wondering why the voided shipping tag now.


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

Just saw this on Facebook

Bikesdirect
30 October
Good Morning, Eager Fatty-Fans!

We mean Fat Bikes, of course!

We are watching the Sturgis and Night Train containers closer than any other we've had before. The ocean freight company just alerted us that they 'moved to rail'.

Our directions to forwarder are to move to our Dallas warehouses as that is quicker than going to Houston warehouse on this route (and much quicker than going to our Jacksonville warehouses).

Rail time can be as little as 2 days and as long as 7. 
We have local truckers altered that we want 'hot shot' pull and delivery. 
We will unload, sort, inspect and ship all the same day by bringing in extra help once these arrive.

All four models: Sturgis, Night Train, Sturgis Bullet and Night Train Bullet have been in high demand. 
We expect the shipment of Sturgis Bullet framesets [due Jan 15] and Sturgis Bullet & Night Train Bullet complete bikes [due Jan 31] will all sell out quickly; especially after the first load is received by customers who will pass the word along.

So, if you have even the slightest interest, we highly recommend you take a look at our hot new bikes before it's too late to snag one!
Photo: Good Morning, Eager Fatty-Fans!

We mean Fat Bikes, of course!

We are watching the Sturgis and Night Train containers closer than any other we've had before. The ocean freight company just alerted us that they 'moved to rail'.

Our directions to forwarder are to move to our Dallas warehouses as that is quicker than going to Houston warehouse on this route (and much quicker than going to our Jacksonville warehouses).

Rail time can be as little as 2 days and as long as 7. 
We have local truckers altered that we want 'hot shot' pull and delivery. 
We will unload, sort, inspect and ship all the same day by bringing in extra help once these arrive.

All four models: Sturgis, Night Train, Sturgis Bullet and Night Train Bullet have been in high demand. 
We expect the shipment of Sturgis Bullet framesets [due Jan 15] and Sturgis Bullet & Night Train Bullet complete bikes [due Jan 31] will all sell out quickly; especially after the first load is received by customers who will pass the word along.

So, if you have even the slightest interest, we highly recommend you take a look at our hot new bikes before it's too late to snag one!
LikeLike · · Share

So they are on the "night train"
Like · Reply · 4 · 30 October at 11:37


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

OnThaCouch said:


> OK...was checking my shipping tag tonight and UPS says my tag was voided by the shipper. Anyone else get this notification? I did change sizes but never received an updated shipping notice so I am wondering why the voided shipping tag now.


Nope, I just checked and my tracking number is still valid, still waiting for the bikes at the warehouse that it will go active.


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

OnThaCouch said:


> OK...was checking my shipping tag tonight and UPS says my tag was voided by the shipper. Anyone else get this notification? I did change sizes but never received an updated shipping notice so I am wondering why the voided shipping tag now.


Mine was voided on Friday as well. I didn't make any changes to my order.
If anyone from BD is reading, an email would be nice!


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

GT_guy said:


> Mine was voided on Friday as well. I didn't make any changes to my order.
> If anyone from BD is reading, an email would be nice!


Same here. Mine also voided.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## doctor_spaceman (Sep 6, 2014)

My tracking number is still valid . Not showing movement though.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Mystery solved...Just got off the phone with Megan from BD. Seems like that the shipping tag is automatically voided/de-activated if there is no activity for 60 days or more (did I really order THAT long ago). She assured me that once it is scanned for shipping that it will re-activate and track just fine.

I did ask for an update on an actual shipping date and she had the same info (word for word) that went out in the update on Facebook a little while ago. Still guesstimating some time between Oct 27 and Nov 10.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

7 more days till Nov 10.  I hope to see lots of snow very soon


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

The e.13 TRS+ cranks that JensonUSA is selling for more than 1/2 off is the older 67.5mm chainline version, and is an older/discontinued model. The new models are 74.8mm chainline.

So the cranks on sale at Jenson USA with the 67.5mm chainline "MAY" work with the Sturgis/Night Train frame...possibly in a 1x set-up (outer ring position), and with narrower tires (i.e. 4" or smaller...just a guess). But you may get odd chainline (i.e. abnormal wear, poor shifting performance, noise, etc.).

However, it probably won't work as a 2x set-up at all, regardless of rear tire clearance. And probably not with tires more than 4" wide (just a pure guess on my part).



gurleyman said:


> Yessir, according to Charles schnieder of the hive





danny31292 said:


> Is that crank compatible with 190mm rear spacings?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Race Face Ride Fat bike crankset is only $100 if you feel the need to swap the cranks - they also include an external bottom bracket. I found my Ride for $76 including shipping from BikeParts.com a month ago. They do not have any left though...


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## danny31292 (Jul 20, 2011)

Two things. 1st, the Samox crank on the Fatboy seems to be having enough issues with the crank bolt that its concerning. How can we prevent this issue? 2nd, whats a good replacement crank that is compatible with the 190mm rear. I think a few people have posted incompatible 170mm cranks.


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

Just saw this on Facebook. It's hotting up!

POSTS BY PAGE
Bikesdirect
10 minutes ago · 
The long awaited Night Train Bullet, Night Train, Sturgis, and Sturgis Bullet are starting to land! Many pre-sold units will ship out today. Unfortunately, as these were in several assorted containers, not all unloaded today. Some containers were selected by U.S. customs to inspect.
We have no control over customs, their timing, or work load. However, we have made it clear to our forwarder that the outstanding containers are a hot rush. As soon as we get release and delivery on the remaining Night Train Bullet, Night Train, Sturgis, and Sturgis Bullet bikes the remaining bikes will ship at once.
Hundreds of tracking numbers on pre-sold units will be live and show movement tomorrow.
OTHER GOOD NEWS: the outstanding containers include some Fat Bike wheels that will go on sale for Black Friday promo - including some 29er wheels that will work in Night Train Bullet, Night Train, Sturgis, and Sturgis Bullet.
We will certainly post when the remainder unload.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Beat me to it!


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Just got off the phone (literally) with BD. My Night Train will ship today!!

Keep an eye out for movement on your tracking ticket, y'all.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Woot! Awesome man!


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Tonggi said:


> Woot! Awesome man!


Heck ya!! I have a long weekend coming up :thumbsup:.

Hopefully it's delivered in time to introduce it to the local trails :band:

.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

OnThaCouch said:


> Just got off the phone (literally) with BD. My Night Train will ship today!!
> 
> Keep an eye out for movement on your tracking ticket, y'all.


I just got off the phone with BD and was told to keep Ckecking for movement with your tracking number....she couldnt tell who would be getting their bike from the recieved containers and who would be waiting on the ones held by customs.

This was the email I received:

Hi, Thanks very much for your order with Bikesdirect.com. Long awaited Night Train Bullet, Night Train, Sturgis, and Sturgis Bullet are starting to land! Many pre-sold units will ship out today. If you are receiving this email then something that you ordered will be shipping today. Unfortunately, as these were in several assorted containers, not all unloaded today. Some containers were selected by U.S. customs to inspect. We have no control over customs, their timing, or work load. However, we have made it clear to our forwarder that the outstanding containers are a hot rush. As soon as we get release and delivery on the remaining Night Train Bullet, Night Train, Sturgis, and Sturgis Bullet bikes the remaining bikes will ship at once. Hundreds of tracking numbers on pre-sold units will be live and will show movement within the next 24 hours.

Your bike will ship with the tracking number that was sent to you after you ordered. If you don't see that email, please check your spam folder. If you have any problems with this, please let us know. The best way is to reply to this email, or you can always call us at 904-249-2453. If you don't reach us between 9-5 EST just call back as we may be on the other line with a customer.

OTHER GOOD NEWS: the outstanding containers include some Fat Bike wheels that will go on sale for Black Friday promo - including some 29er wheels that will work on Night Train Bullet, Night Train, Sturgis, and Sturgis Bullet.

We thank you for your business and most importantly your patience. We look forward to completing your order as soon as possible. Thanks for being a valued customer, you are saving hundreds with BikesDirect.com!


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Update.....just checked my tracking number after my last post to yall and low and behold:

Scheduled Delivery Updated To:
Friday, 11/07/2014, By End of Day 

WAHOOOOO!!!!!!


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

I did not get that email


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

My tracking number just updated (I checked right after I saw I got the above email) - shows picked up and delivery by end of day Thursday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

How early did those that have tracking info order? I ordered back on Sept. 20.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I ordered August 15th.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

I ordered August 22nd and no active UPS Tracking number yet.

17.5" red Sturgis Bullet


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

^^ me too!!!


Scheduled Delivery Updated To:
Friday, 11/07/2014, By End of Day

Last Location:
Mesquite, TX, United States, Tuesday, 11/04/2014


"Picked Up"


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

August 26 here


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## gjbiker (Oct 21, 2007)

I ordered NT bullet July 16. My tracking number says "shipment information voided".
I must be the person who has waited longer than anyone else.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

I am going to play a little Sherlock Holmes here because I am eager for my bike...I am willing to bet that certain colors/bikes/sizes were grouped together.

I ordered a 17" Sturgis in KTM Orange.


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## Broohaha (Apr 28, 2012)

Wonder if it makes sense to include what you ordered...

NT - no Bullet
Original order on 9/2, updated size on 10/7 (S->M)

Delivery EOD Thurs 11/6

I really can't believe how excited I am to ride this thing... I feel for all the folks left in the dark right now. Hopefully only a matter of a day or so...


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

I ordered the 17.5 Night-Train scheduled for Friday delivery here in Michigan


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## gjbiker (Oct 21, 2007)

skywardx said:


> I ordered the 17.5 Night-Train scheduled for Friday delivery here in Michigan


Bullet?


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

I really can't believe how excited I am to ride this thing... I feel for all the folks left in the dark right now. Hopefully only a matter of a day or so...[/QUOTE]

+1


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

gjbiker said:


> Bullet?


No...non Bluto in Gloss Black


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Ordered 2 weeks ago today. 

Night Train. Black. 17.5

Friday to NJ.

I hope everyone gets their bike because I'm excited as hell. I'm sure it'll be a matter of time for everyone to get thier UPS #s updated


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

So cool that there are delivery dates coming out.

Unfortunately, mine is not updated yet. Hoping it isn't too long for CA delivery.

Matte Silver 17.5" NT Bullet....formerly Matte Black 15.5" NT Bullet.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mine is a Sturgis Bullet Gun Metal in XL (21"). First order placed on 8/7 then changed on 8/15 from L to XL. Yeah my pile of parts will get smaller! I have 3 big storage bins of parts waiting on fat bikes to put them on...
For the Moto I only have - frame bag, bars, grips, seatpost and seat.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

I got the email but my ups tracking number still shows as voided. I ordered matte black NT Bullet on July 20.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Negotiator50 said:


> I got the email but my ups tracking number still shows as voided. I ordered matte black NT Bullet on July 20.


I ordered on July 22 and did not get an email today but BD called me asking if I still wanted to keep my Matte Silver that I ordered (changed sizes) or wait on a Matte Black to possibly show up. I opted to keep the Silver and BD told me it would ship out today.

I am hoping that the tracking # activatives soon. If not, I'll call BD back to confirm they sent it out today like they said they did.


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

I didn't get the email but my tracking # shows movement. Delivery on Friday!


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

drmayer said:


> I didn't get the email but my tracking # shows movement. Delivery on Friday!


Nice! What date did you place your order?


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

No movement on my tracking number. I ordered Night Train Bullet on 9/16. I am guessing that those of us who didn't get a number today may wait a long time. They said some of this is with customs. That can take days or weeks to clear.

Looks like no Black Bullets have shipped yet by this thread. I am guessing the Bullets were held up more than the others. The one guy ordered the 17.5 regular 2 weeks ago and it shipped today. Tells me us Bullet folks are going to do most the waiting if they are up that close in orders for non-Bullets.

Tom


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

17.5 sturgis bullet, white, and i'll have it monday as I see it was picked up (I'm in Idaho).
(ordered in July - but dont think that matters)


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

neons97 said:


> The e.13 TRS+ cranks that JensonUSA is selling for more than 1/2 off is the older 67.5mm chainline version, and is an older/discontinued model. The new models are 74.8mm chainline.
> 
> So the cranks on sale at Jenson USA with the 67.5mm chainline "MAY" work with the Sturgis/Night Train frame...possibly in a 1x set-up (outer ring position), and with narrower tires (i.e. 4" or smaller...just a guess). But you may get odd chainline (i.e. abnormal wear, poor shifting performance, noise, etc.).
> 
> However, it probably won't work as a 2x set-up at all, regardless of rear tire clearance. And probably not with tires more than 4" wide (just a pure guess on my part).


Thanks for the heads up....I'm sure I would have figured that out eventually.....after throwing it across the garage...turns out the order wasn't far enough along and they returned to sender.


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

I keep pressing refresh. Ordered NT bullet early Sep. looks like mines stopped although got the email which is badly written as says" if you get this email yours has shipped" but then goes on to say " some have been stopped by customs" so not very clear.



pearsth said:


> No movement on my tracking number. I ordered Night Train Bullet on 9/16. I am guessing that those of us who didn't get a number today may wait a long time. They said some of this is with customs. That can take days or weeks to clear.
> 
> Looks like no Black Bullets have shipped yet by this thread. I am guessing the Bullets were held up more than the others. The one guy ordered the 17.5 regular 2 weeks ago and it shipped today. Tells me us Bullet folks are going to do most the waiting if they are up that close in orders for non-Bullets.
> 
> Tom


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

I ordered a 21" black NT bullet 10/21 (I don't know how you guys could stand waiting since friggin July) I don't have any activity on my shipment yet. Glad to see peeps have them on their way.


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

danny31292 said:


> Two things. 1st, the Samox crank on the Fatboy seems to be having enough issues with the crank bolt that its concerning. How can we prevent this issue? 2nd, whats a good replacement crank that is compatible with the 190mm rear. I think a few people have posted incompatible 170mm cranks.


race face seems to have several that will fit the bill. After neon97s post I went to raceface website and found a pdf with helpful dimensions.


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## Scow (Nov 5, 2014)

Ordered NT Bullet matte black 17.5 on 9/16. No movement on tracking number to Utah. My original email with tracking number from 9/16 shows a ship date of 11/5/14 next to tracking number link in the email. Weird?


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

I need to inform customs that it is a matter of national security that I get my bike as soon as possible


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## brulebike (Mar 25, 2009)

*Arriving Monday Nov 10*

Ordered my night train on Sept 14, just checked my ups shipping no and arrival date should be monday. Not too soon as snow is predicted for tommorrow in Northern Wisconsin. Should be a fun winter.


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

Was it a bullet? Seems black bullets are delayed.....



brulebike said:


> Ordered my night train on Sept 14, just checked my ups shipping no and arrival date should be monday. Not too soon as snow is predicted for tommorrow in Northern Wisconsin. Should be a fun winter.


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## brulebike (Mar 25, 2009)

bennybullfrog said:


> Was it a bullet? Seems black bullets are delayed.....


Nope, this will be a "snow" bike initially. Wanted to keep it as light as possible. I'm thinking Blutos will be in short supply right now, I'd bet that is what will contribute to delay. This is like the countdown to the launch of space rocket, Glad I'm in on the experimental launch.


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Ordered mine in October. Ship Date said to be 11/10. NT 17.5 in Deep Purple. No movement or emails but I figured mine would be one of the last to go out. 
Glad to see they are starting to go out. I hope customs cooperates too!


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Mine is a 17.5" purple NT as well. But I ordered on July 28th. No email/UPS movement yet. As said previously, these are most likely batched in containers (i.e. all of one model/size/colour together). Good to see no one got a purple 17.5" NT before me so far...


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

White Sturgis Bullet 17.5 headed my way, tracking says Nov 7, but based on where it is now, I could see it getting into town here tonight for delivery on Nov 6. My order was 9/24 when I cancelled the previous order for a 17.5 rigid green Sturgis from a week earlier.

-edit - I was optimistic they'd zip right up I-35 and arrive a day early but looks like it's stuck in Kansas City.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Delivery date went from nov 7 to Monday November 10. All good! Just gotta figure out who will be home to accept the package.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Mine shipped today, Purple Night Train 19.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Ok...so I feel like I have the equivalent of fat bike blue balls :yikes:.

After getting a call at 10:20am PST yesterday letting me know that my bike would ship yesterday there is still no movement on my ticket.

I called this morning and spoke with the same person and now the story is that "we are shipping a lot of bikes at the same time so it may take a while before your ticket is activated".

I know I've been waiting since July for this thing but c'mon. With the end so close in sight you can't mess with people's minds like this :skep::skep:. 

Just let me know that I should see something in the next couple of days/that "we'll get that out as soon as we can"...don't tell me it's going to ship on a date that it wouldn't.

/rant over....:thumbsup:


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mine is in St. Louis right now. More than half way here!


My wife told me UPS usually gets to my house by 3PM so I am leaving work at 2 tomorrow.


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## Tin Turtle (Sep 6, 2012)

I was able to order an Old Man Mountain Phat Sherpa rack for the Night Train by calling and talking to the guys at OMM directly. They have to order a Roberts axle to make it work, and clamp mounts but it will ship to me I a couple of days. Looking forward to getting it and I will post how it goes once I get both the bike and rack. My bike has not shown any movement on the tracking number as of today.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

if looking to upgrade bottom bracket and crankset... what are the specifics.. is it press fit, threaded,, 120mm spindle? I know a lot seems to be out of stock a this current time.. waiting on the large sturgis bullet to arrive, supposedly by Monday... will have a few days before deer season opens up...


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

siv said:


> Mine shipped today, Purple Night Train 19.


First purple NT I've seen movement on. Makes me giddy as I have a purple nt in 17.5 with my name on it, but no ups movement so far.

Not sure how the manufacturer grouped the bikes in the containers. By model, by size, or by colour?

Haven't seen anyone post of a 15.5" shipped yet, regardless of order date, model or colour.

I think I've seen nt, ntb, sturgis a sturgis bullets move. But not all colours. Song don't think they were grouped by model. Makes me think they are grouped by size/colour.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I believe the bottom bracket and cranks are PF30 bottom bracket and 100mm spindle w/ 190 spacing. I keep thinking about ordering another set of RF Ride cranks for this bike but going to hold off and hope these cranks are OK. I have a set of Ride cranks for 170 spacing sitting in my pile-O-Parts so can throw those on in a pinch but will probably have chain line issues. Will keep me riding in case of issues while I deal with mail order warranty.


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## danny31292 (Jul 20, 2011)

Destr0 said:


> I believe the bottom bracket and cranks are PF30 bottom bracket and 100mm spindle w/ 190 spacing. I keep thinking about ordering another set of RF Ride cranks for this bike but going to hold off and hope these cranks are OK. I have a set of Ride cranks for 170 spacing sitting in my pile-O-Parts so can throw those on in a pinch but will probably have chain line issues. Will keep me riding in case of issues while I deal with mail order warranty.


Pretty sure the BB is 100m and the spindle is 120mm with washers on each side. As for the bottom bracket, what kind does the Boris use? BSA or PF?


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Destr0 said:


> I believe the bottom bracket and cranks are PF30 bottom bracket and 100mm spindle w/ 190 spacing. I keep thinking about ordering another set of RF Ride cranks for this bike but going to hold off and hope these cranks are OK. I have a set of Ride cranks for 170 spacing sitting in my pile-O-Parts so can throw those on in a pinch but will probably have chain line issues. Will keep me riding in case of issues while I deal with mail order warranty.


This is incorrect

The nt/sturgis frame is threaded bsa bottom bracket. 100mm shell. Requires 120mm shell spacing (ie meant for 190mm old tear/100mm bottom bracket + 10mm spindle spacer on each end) if you want to run 2x front.

If you run a 1x front, a spindle length meant for a 170mm old rear/100mm bb may be able to work provided:
1. Race face direct mount: flip the ring to regain chainline
2. Triple crank: put the ring in the outboard/large ring position, and check the arms to ensure they clear the chainstays. You should have good chainline. 
3. Double crank: use outer ring position and live with a poor chain line. You might also have issues with the chain rubbing on tires wider than about 4".

But without having these frames actually out in market, these are just my best educated assumptions for now.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

Received an email from Bikes Direct just now saying that my 17.5" Red Sturgis Bullet is stuck in customs:

*Hi, thanks very much for your order with Bikesdirect.com. As you may have heard, some of the Night Train Bullet, Night Train, Sturgis, and Sturgis Bullet arrived yesterday and began shipping. Unfortunately, as these were in several assorted containers, not all unloaded yesterday. Some containers were selected by U.S. customs to inspect.

If you are receiving this email then your bike was on one of these containers. We have no control over customs, their timing, or work load. However, we have made it clear to our forwarder that the outstanding containers are a hot rush. As soon as we get release and delivery on the remaining Night Train Bullet, Night Train, Sturgis, and Sturgis Bullet bikes the remaining bikes will ship at once. The minute the remaining containers arrive to our warehouse docks we will email you to let you know when to start checking your tracking number.

Your bike will ship with the tracking number that was sent to you after you ordered. If you don't see that email, please check your spam folder. If you need to communicate with us regarding this order the best way is to reply to this email, or you can always call us at 904-249-2453. If you don't reach us between 9-5 EST just call back as we may be on the other line with a customer.

OTHER GOOD NEWS: the outstanding containers include some Fat Bike wheels that will go on sale for Black Friday promo - including some 29er wheels that will work on Night Train Bullet, Night Train, Sturgis, and Sturgis Bullet.

We thank you for your business and most importantly your patience. We look forward to completing your order as soon as possible. Thanks for being a valued customer, you are saving hundreds with BikesDirect.com!

Thanks,

Order Processing Team at Bikes Direct*


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I haven't gotten either email yet.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

neons97 said:


> I haven't gotten either email yet.


Just got my "sorry but yours is in customs" email. 

Oh well, I guess the waiting game continues. What does it matter in the grand scheme of things? What's another couple of weeks after all this waiting? I wish I hadn't gotten the call yesterday telling me that mine was on the way though.


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

hartzpad said:


> Received an email from Bikes Direct just now saying that my 17.5" Red Sturgis Bullet is stuck in customs:
> 
> *Hi, thanks very much for your order with Bikesdirect.com. As you may have heard, some of the Night Train Bullet, Night Train, Sturgis, and Sturgis Bullet arrived yesterday and began shipping. Unfortunately, as these were in several assorted containers, not all unloaded yesterday. Some containers were selected by U.S. customs to inspect.
> 
> ...


Yup I got the same one.......customs.....pffffft....


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

neons97.. thanks for the info on the bottom bracket crankset....deal


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

These containers are filled with goods destined for businesses that need to run and turn a profit so I doubt that customs holds the goods up for very long at all. I would think no more than a day. Otherwise, I feel like this could be a convenient way for BD to buy some time if shipments are a little late.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

My previously voided shipping label just went active. It says scheduled delivery is for Monday. I ordered a 17.5 black NTB.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

17.5 Night Train Bullet in Matte Black coming my way by Friday. My birthday is today. An updated shipping number is a great present!!!


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Same bike and shipping situation. Monday... Damn. At least it's happening!


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

AndrewZorn said:


> Same bike and shipping situation. Monday... Damn. At least it's happening!


Yeah also got the dreaded held up by US Customs email. Patience is a virtue...pffft! :madman::madman::madman:


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Murdered out XL NTB headed my way!

Guess maybe I should cancel all of those flaming crates of poo I just sent to the Port of Houston?


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

I got the 'Stuck in Customs' Email but hoping it gets shipped out next week.
The anticipation is killing me but I can still have fun on my FS bike!


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

My ups tracking info says my 19"Sturgis Bullet in Gunmetal Grey will be here tomorrow. Can't wait to put it together and take it for a ride.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

livewr06 said:


> I got the 'Stuck in Customs' Email but hoping it gets shipped out next week.
> *The anticipation is killing me but I can still have fun on my FS bike!*


Wish I had this option....cracked my chainstay a couple of weeks back so not bike for me.

I was hoping to be on my bike much sooner. The "your bike shipped...oh wait, no it didn't" dance is not a lot of fun. Hoping that the customs hold isn't all that long and the bike is here in time to enjoy in no time.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

UPS shows my bike is now at the distribution center near me!!!  Looks like tomorrow is a go! My handlebars were supposed to be here tomorrow too but now the tracking number says Saturday. :-{


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

Was it shipped Yesterday? That's preetty impressive!



Destr0 said:


> UPS shows my bike is now at the distribution center near me!!!  Looks like tomorrow is a go! My handlebars were supposed to be here tomorrow too but now the tracking number says Saturday. :-{


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## RobertAxle142 (Mar 19, 2013)

Tin Turtle said:


> I was able to order an Old Man Mountain Phat Sherpa rack for the Night Train by calling and talking to the guys at OMM directly. They have to order a Roberts axle to make it work, and clamp mounts but it will ship to me I a couple of days. Looking forward to getting it and I will post how it goes once I get both the bike and rack. My bike has not shown any movement on the tracking number as of today.


Thanks for the mention Tin Turtle. Looking forward to seeing your Night Train fully outfitted with Old Man Mountain racks and our thru-axle. Please do post up photos, we love seeing our customer's bikes.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I got the dreaded "your bike is stuck in customs" email.

Ordered July 28th
NT, 17.5", Purple


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## rocklax (Mar 30, 2010)

With all these beautiful bikes shipping, is anyone unloading slightly used Boris's or FB4's?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

OH NO! My UPS tracking now shows a big yellow "EXCEPTION" instead of out for delivery. It is at the distribution center 15 minutes away... :-( I will give it a while to update but if I don't see any movement by lunch I am calling big brown.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Just checked mine and it landed at their center 50 minutes away. It was scheduled to be here Monday but it may change to tomorrow!!!


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Is anyone else annoyed about the Fantom Pro 29 photo that shows up on the thread list for a thread about our beloved Sturgis and NT?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

I can delete it if it is that annoying. Just trying to be helpful for the folks who wanted a view of silver. We should have plenty of silver pics soon to replace it by next week.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Whoo Hoo! Taking up a lot of space in my office:





















I will pull it out and take some more pics later but I drove my truck to work today so want to leave it in the box for the ride home.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Negotiator50 said:


> Is anyone else annoyed about the Fantom Pro 29 photo that shows up on the thread list for a thread about our beloved Sturgis and NT?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


lol only on the taptalk app. It always pop up for some reason but helps separate from the other subscribed threads!


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Mines out for delivery. Bailed work to wait on it, brewing to pass the time, winning.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Destr0 said:


> Whoo Hoo! Taking up a lot of space in my office:
> 
> I will pull it out and take some more pics later but I drove my truck to work today so want to leave it in the box for the ride home.


Sweet! How tall are you and what is your pant leg in seem? I'm btwn a large and xl, and not sure which to order. Can you weigh it too for us, please?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Grabbed some tools on lunch as I am not able to leave early (unexpected 4:30 meeting) so I am going to assemble and bring home on my bike rack. 

Will have a weight soon, but will only be a bathroom scale weight. I am 6'3" tall and rode a L and XL Mukluk that has very similar geometry/sizing - I liked the way the XL felt better. My true inseam (floor to crotch) is 35" - not super long but I am very long in the torso so the smaller bikes feel a bit cramped - I used to like a size L but now at 43 years old my back likes the longer top tube, and I can run a short stem/wide bars vs the long stem I need on a size L (I have a 120mm stem on my L 29er and 20mm setback post and I like the fit but could use a touch more room).


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## shappy (Oct 27, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> Grabbed some tools on lunch as I am not able to leave early (unexpected 4:30 meeting) so I am going to assemble and bring home on my bike rack.


When you have the time, can you report on exactly how much assembly has to be done, since BD seems to be a bit vague regarding this?


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Looks like bars, seatpost and front wheel need to go on that's it. I'm doing mine later tonight. Box is in good shape though.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Threw it together so I can bring it home on my bike rack rather than the bed of my truck (it looks like rain tonight - YUK). Assembly took all of 15 minutes -

Remove reflectors
put front end wheel caps and rotor on
Setup front brake (front caliper is not bolted to fork)
Put in seat post
Turn stem/fork 180 and adjust for angle (mine was a couple degrees off from straight)
Attach bars
remove plastic and paper wraps
find a couple of those useless C clip things that hold on brake hoses - mine was missing a few but I did find them in the bottom of the box - Too bad I was using the box as my garbage for all the packing. That was the hardest part of the whole setup - that and you have to remove the caliper from the bracket to be able to bolt the caliper on the fork.

Per my very scientific bathroom scale it weighs about 34lbs as delivered (less the reflectors). Sounds about right -the Night Train in the other thread was listed at 32lbs for a Large, this has heavier components and heavier tires and is an XL frame.


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## shappy (Oct 27, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> Threw it together so I can bring it home on my bike rack rather than the bed of my truck (it looks like rain tonight - YUK). Assembly took all of 15 minutes -
> 
> Remove reflectors
> put front end wheel caps and rotor on
> ...


Great info, thanks!


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Please let us know how it rides!

Whats the frame really like as far as welds go and other such things?

Other comments?


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

oooo 34 lbs. thats not bad at all. My NIght train i hope is sub 30 after the tubeless conversion. It will be lighter than my 29er FS. wtf!?!!


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Tonggi said:


> oooo 34 lbs. thats not bad at all. My NIght train i hope is sub 30 after the tubeless conversion. It will be lighter than my 29er FS. wtf!?!!


I am OK with 34lb - the seat and post are probably 2.5!!! Those are probably both going bye-bye tonight (I have a post for this bike, and I may steal my Ti rail Velo saddle that is supposed to be for my Bucksaw).

I am hoping with the lightweight tubes and rim strips, bars, saddle and seatpost I am pretty darn close to the 30lb mark.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Some better pics: Nobody notice that in a couple of the pics I have the rear derailleur cable on the wrong side of the stem... I fixed it - I told you guys I threw it together quick! LOL


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

That's the 'matte' black? Really?

- Nevermind, I'm dumb, you got the Sturgis.

Even _after_ ordering and everything, I'm still really annoyed by certain colors only being available for certain builds. It's all so confusing.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Yeah I would have liked a Sturgis Bullet in Matte Black (my Moto Fantom Pro 29er is that color).

Welds look nice and clean -as I expected.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

AndrewZorn said:


> That's the 'matte' black? Really?
> 
> - Nevermind, I'm dumb, you got the Sturgis.
> 
> Even _after_ ordering and everything, I'm still really annoyed by certain colors only being available for certain builds. It's all so confusing.


I don't think the sturgis bullet came in a black. That could in fact be the matte black.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Can someone pleae post up a picture of a 15" Bullet. This is killing me.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Negotiator50 said:


> I don't think the sturgis bullet came in a black. That could in fact be the matte black.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


This is the Sturgis Bullet in the Gunmetalflakegrey. Really nice color - a lot cooler than I was thinking, but I still would have liked matt black.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Awesome, thanks for the pics and weight! Looks like a great bike, especially for the price.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

There is no way customs is holding up a few shipping containers for that long. I think one of the boats sank and my Sturgis is gonna need scuba gear to retreive. I am jealous of all the the people getting their bikes already. 

34lbs for a XL with a Bluto and stock parts...pretty good. So my tubeless, rigid-fork, carbon bar, 50mm Kore stem, Thomson seatpost, and San Marco Aspide Ti saddle might get this thing around 30? Sweet!


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Destr0 said:


> Per my very scientific bathroom scale it weighs about 34lbs as delivered (less the reflectors). Sounds about right -the Night Train in the other thread was listed at 32lbs for a Large, this has heavier components and heavier tires and is an XL frame.


I've been digging up the weights on the different components between the Sturgis and Night Train and this is what I came up with:

Tires: 1355-1260 x 2 = 190 grams
Brake set: 638-550 = 88g
R. Derailleur: 290-250= 40g
Shifters: 250-230= 20g
TOTAL= 338 grams (.75 lbs)

So, I would agree that your XL Sturgis weight seems accurate when compared to the Large Night Train in the other thread. Not much weight difference for $200. I doubt there is a noticeable performance difference in the shifters and rear derailleur. I know the brakes are a lot better, but I prefer Shimanos and can get a set for $100, and that would leave me with the Dracos for spares or to flip for more savings.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

I'm 5'11" with a 33" inseam, I ordered a 17.5" medium. I just checked out some Fatboys and the salesman said he would never ever put me on a medium. My Sturgis is stuck in Customs, should I switch to a large?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

hartzpad said:


> I'm 5'11" with a 33" inseam, I ordered a 17.5" medium. I just checked out some Fatboys and the salesman said he would never ever put me on a medium. My Sturgis is stuck in Customs, should I switch to a large?


Only if it's Matte Black  as I have a Matte Silver (17.5") in customs that I wouldn't mind having in Matte Black :thumbsup:.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

hartzpad said:


> I'm 5'11" with a 33" inseam, I ordered a 17.5" medium. I just checked out some Fatboys and the salesman said he would never ever put me on a medium. My Sturgis is stuck in Customs, should I switch to a large?


It really depends on what you prefer, and how long your upper body is compared to your lower. I'm 6'3" and have very long legs (inseem 36" actual, 34" pant leg), broad shoulders, and relatively short arms. Because of my height, I end up between the Large and XL frame sizes for a lot of bikes. I find the fit is typically better for me on the smaller (large) frames, because of the shorter reach to the bars. If I go with a larger frame, I have to run a shorter length stem (like 70 vs 90mm). On frames with short chain stays (i.e, 440mm on a 29er), this can make the front end wander and loop out on steep climbs when seated, but with longer chain stays (455mm), this is not an issue. These fat bikes have long chain stays (460mm), so the front end should stay planted when climbing with a shorter stem. However, the XL frame has a pretty long wheelbase at 1170mm (longer than my 120mm full suspension 29er), which could make tight switchbacks more cumbersome, so I'm leaning towards the size large personally. I think I would be fine either way. With the long stems they spec'd on these bikes, I'm sure that will be the first thing I change anyways.


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## brulebike (Mar 25, 2009)

You dogs that have your night trains already. My black 19" has made it from Texas to Illinois, to N Wisc on Monday. Good thing I have to work this weekend and wouldn't have been able to ride. An inch of new snow this morning and more predicted for tommorrow. It will be a happy thanksgiving in Brule.


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

hartzpad said:


> I'm 5'11" with a 33" inseam, I ordered a 17.5" medium. I just checked out some Fatboys and the salesman said he would never ever put me on a medium. My Sturgis is stuck in Customs, should I switch to a large?


I have the same measurements and tested a Fatty or two of my pals. 19" felt right to me


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## Broohaha (Apr 28, 2012)

*NT in the house....*

Mr. UPS delivered as promised. Needless to say, I was kinda stoked...

Figured some people might want additional pics (even if I only have the black, non-bluto...) A couple rubs on the paint from shipping, but everything came clean with a little clear coat safe compound.

Also, did the same weighing technique as with luggage. (Typical scale, by yourself, then with luggage/bike in hand.) Came in at 34 lbs even. It's a digital scale, but... I'd still take it with a grain of salt. Definitely heavier than I had hoped for a Medium/17.5.
- Regarding weight, here are the component tweaks I made:
1. Old Thompson Elite seat post I had around
2. Different WTB seat (guessing it's a couple grams lighter)
3. DMR Flat Pedals (400g for the pair)
4. ODI grips
5. Hope seat post clamp

So... probably not too much different than what others will weigh.

Rides great. :thumbsup: Minor tweaks on front caliber positioning. Shifting very clean. Definitely have to check the tire pressure though. They're like rocks.

Tip: I was an idiot and promptly ignored the spacers that are literally tied to the front wheel. Put them on your hub before installing. (Keep the front caliper bolts loose before putting the front wheel on. Get the front wheel on, apply front brake pressure to set positioning, then tighten. I'm not an expert, so I guess people will correct my approach as necessary. But it worked like a charm for me. No tweaking of discs needed.)

Looking forward to my first proper ride tomorrow.

Hope everyone's bikes arrives in the same shape as mine. 

Yes, it looks bad, but it cleaned up with 10 seconds of clear coat safe compound.







All done and ready to ride...


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## brulebike (Mar 25, 2009)

Ooff, 34lbs, I was hoping for something closer to 30 for my large. Look at the tires on that fatboy, perfect. Keep us posted on how your first ride goes


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## brulebike (Mar 25, 2009)

I think you might be better off with a smaller frame and a setback seatpost to get more weight over the rear wheel. Fatbike veterans seem to think that is the biggest advantage of the fattires.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

We need these bikes on real, calibrated scales

The other thread claims 34lbs for an XL Sturgis Bullet (i.e. with Bluto)

This thread claims 34lbs for a 17.5" NT, but with a lighter post, and nearly 1lb pedals. Putting this around 33.5lbs. 

The night train should be about 3/4 lb lighter than a sturgis. Bluto should add about 1.5lbs. M vs. XL frame should be worth at least 1/2 lb. So if the other thread is correct, a 17.5" NT stock should be 31-31.5 lbs. So about a 2-2.5lb discrepancy between the bathroom scale method, and the other guy's "pallet scale" method. Neither of which are overly accurate as the pallet scale probably isn't meant to weigh a 35lb mass with much accuracy.

Then there's another claim that the guy's Sturgis Bullet is 32lbs for a 19". Which is the lightest we have seen. Taking the Bluto out, that would mean a Night Train (rigid) at about 29.75lbs for a 19". Account for 1/4 lb for the 17" and this would make it a 29.5lb Night Train. That's about 4 lbs different than the claim in this post.

I think the moral is...we still don't know how much these things actually weigh.

In any case, I had psyched myself up for 35 lbs. for my Night Train (rigid, 17.5"). So any or all of these weights will be welcomed. If we can get these to sub-30 with just a few upgrades, those carbon-forked Fatboy owners who have been saying "but ours are sub-30 lbs" will be silenced on the topic of weight.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Take my 35lb with a grain of salt - I do not own a scale (bathroom or otherwise) and my shipping clerk had left for the day by the time I got it assembled. Not sure our postage scale would have worked anyway - I know it will weigh 40lb boxes, but not sure how we would do a bike. I weighed it by standing on scale without bike, then with bike and then had another person do the same- the scale I used was close to max with me and the bike (300# max scale - me in street clothes with shoes and wallet showed 355 + 34 lb bike it was close to the max) - other person was only 170 before bike and both came to 34#. Scale was not digital though so not terribly accurate. 

I have dumped some weight already - Velo ti rail saddle, FSA Gravity lite post and I am currently working on putting in a lightweight 2.4" Q tube and duct tape/caution tape rim strip.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

all I am going to say is do yourself a favor , stop freakin out about weight, for those who have ridden fatbikes you ought to know what I am talking about. bike weight does not affect bushwacking or snow riding as much as you would think..

for all of you who are waiting for their first one. sit back, chill, relax and stop fretting. you will dump a pile of money in to shave some grams to get it down sub 29....I'm saving my money for beer instead.
my Pug with frame bag full and back rack and fender is an anchor,close to 41 lbs. but it storms around and terrorizes my area's singletrack. but still more fun to ride than my 25 lb. Kona Kina Kahuna hard tail...


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

My shipping # is still showing no movement! Aaaarrrgggghhh! Does customs really take a freakin week? What the heck!


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

twright205 said:


> all I am going to say is do yourself a favor , stop freakin out about weight...


Listen to this person. Between bike/gear/rider I'm hauling ~230lbs up the hill. Cutting 2lbs off the bike will make me 1% faster up hill. Meh. If you're into the weight weenie thing, buying a generic fat bike is like a vegan going to a Texas BBQ. Otherwise, ride and be happy. The lump of sweaty meat sitting on top of these bikes is the biggest factor in how fast it will go.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

manchvegas said:


> My shipping # is still showing no movement! Aaaarrrgggghhh! Does customs really take a freakin week? What the heck!


Container inspection at port during the holiday rush? Only if you're really lucky.


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## Aceldama (Jan 18, 2005)

car_nut said:


> Listen to this person. Between bike/gear/rider I'm hauling ~230lbs up the hill. Cutting 2lbs off the bike will make me 1% faster up hill. Meh. If you're into the weight weenie thing, buying a generic fat bike is like a vegan going to a Texas BBQ. Otherwise, ride and be happy. The lump of sweaty meat sitting on top of these bikes is the biggest factor in how fast it will go.


It's not enough to get a bike with a really nice build for hundreds less than bikes at the LBS. It's gotta be lighter too.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Mine showed up with a front broken spoke/nipple due to the crank arm being shipped in it, just how they do it I guess. Only got to ride it around in the yard and street a little. It rides lighter than whatever weight number you're going to see. The tires have some self steer in pavement but I'm not sure about psi, only get worse by lowering it. I'm still not sure why there's hub spacers in the front, why didn't they just make 150mm spaced fork to go with 150mm hubs? Sucks because I take my wheel off to transport, definetely gonna lose those spacers.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

I just tried to switch from my 17.5" M Sturgis Bullet red to the 19" L Sturgis Bullet red and they say they do not have any left, but they did make a note in case any extras are found. Website shows them available but it isn't up to date.


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

Bud and Lou showed up last night. Now waiting for Bluto on the Train. Tracking shows he 'Departed' Texas yesterday... still no 'Scheduled Delivery' date posted. Should I be concerned?


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Personally, I'm very pleased to see the initial reports for the weight of these bikes. I was worried that they would come in at 36+ pounds, after reading the preproduction model review on Singletracks. 32-34 lbs is excellent with the Bluto, and tells me the frame should be worth keeping. I agree that at this point, weight should no longer be a major concern.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Not too worried about the weight weenie thing, BUT if I am going to trick out my bike (and I have to mod any bike - even a $4K high end bike - I would have to add my touch to it) I am going to lighten weight at the same time. I know having bought a different Moto bike last year that the seat post and bars are fairly heavy and generic so I bought some better "Bling" ones. That and light weight tubes and lock on grips are the only mods for me until something breaks or I don't like the saddle.  Getting close to 30lbs is just a goal so I can say I got a $1300 fat bike that weighs the same as a $4K Fat Boy. My seat post and bars set me back less than $70 total (love BikeIsland and Nashbar clearance stuff!) and the seat post weighs about 1/2 what the stock one does and it is a great accent color. 
Waiting on my bars that will be here Saturday, then I can post some pics.

The caution tape rim strip was a fail - the lettering is too big to see through the rim holes - you couldn't even tell they were words, it looked like a yellow rim strip with some of the holes not cut out right. Thankfully when I went to the store yesterday on my way home to buy duct tape to back up the caution tape I found this:










Really like the batman logos as a rim strip.  Yellow seat post and yellow bars/grips.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Destr0 said:


> Some better pics: Nobody notice that in a couple of the pics I have the rear derailleur cable on the wrong side of the stem... I fixed it - I told you guys I threw it together quick! LOL
> View attachment 937113
> View attachment 937115
> View attachment 937116
> View attachment 937117


Nice. The knobs on those tires look pretty underwhelming. Are they larger or beefier in person? Looking at that, I am thinking I might need to get some better tires for snow riding and leave those for mud riding.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Aceldama (Jan 18, 2005)

Negotiator50 said:


> Nice. The knobs on those tires look pretty underwhelming. Are they larger or beefier in person? Looking at that, I am thinking I might need to get some better tires for snow riding and leave those for mud riding.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


I've noticed this too after test riding a few different bikes this week. The Surly Nate tires were much knobbier than the Vee tires I rode on (Bulldozer, Mission). Though, The Bulldozer kinda reminded me of a huge Maxis Highroller, which isn't a bad thing.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

I am also suddenly worrying about the tires after seeing pictures of the tread pattern. I'd almost rather not ride on them so I could still sell them and get a decent replacement set. How snow-specific do you think those are, with knobs that look more like studs in terms of size and spacing?

My tires won't see much snow or sand action that would necessitate a fat bike. I mostly got this for a fun mountain bike.



Onestep4me said:


> Bud and Lou showed up last night. Now waiting for Bluto on the Train. Tracking shows he 'Departed' Texas yesterday... still no 'Scheduled Delivery' date posted. Should I be concerned?


Why would you be worried? It's in UPS's hands now. They aren't perfect, but are pretty reliable. The bike is out of Bikes Direct's hands now and is in the mail. This is good news.


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

Negotiator50 said:


> I might need to get some better tires for snow riding and leave those for mud riding.


That's what I'm doing.

Last week I rode with 3 other fat bikes. They had Missions (3.8), Snowshoes (4.5?), and Bud / Lou (4.8). There was not much size dif between the Missions and Snowshoes. Bud & Lou seemed HUGE in comparison, both overall size and tread height.


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## HydroManEd (Aug 15, 2014)

I just want to see my bike that's all I care about ,at least some tracking movement.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Onestep4me said:


> That's what I'm doing.
> 
> Last week I rode with 3 other fat bikes. They had Missions (3.8), Snowshoes (4.5?), and Bud / Lou (4.8). There was not much size dif between the Missions and Snowshoes. Bud & Lou seemed HUGE in comparison, both overall size and tread height.


I have a snowshoe 4.5 and it is the exact same size as an H-Billei 4.25, it is bigger than the 3.8 Panracer Fat B Nible I have. The Snowshoe XL 5.0 on the Sturgis is bigger than all of them - I don't have a Bud/Lou to compare. The tread is fairly substantial - Not wanting to drop another $300 on tires I am going to try them in the snow this winter and replace only if I need to.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

BD doesn't list the snowshoe XL as being spec'd on any of their bikes anymore - all Snowshoe 4.5's in different TPI and compounds, but no XL's. Did you get Snowshoe XL's on your sturgis?


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Any one figure out why there's spacer caps for the front hub yet?


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

siv said:


> Any one figure out why there's spacer caps for the front hub yet?


I think it is because the hub spacing must not be 150mm and the bluto fork is 150mm spacing.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

*Got my 19" Sturgis Bullet*

I wasted no time assembling my Sturgis Bullet when I got home last night. Everything in the box was in perfect condition and assembled fine. I did not use the included seat and seat post. Instead I used an Easton EA70 post and Specialized Henge Comp seat I had that weight a combined 240 grams.

I went out and got some dirt on the tires riding around my place and everything functions well. I like it!


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

mtb_fun said:


> I wasted no time assembling my Sturgis Bullet when I got home last night. Everything in the box was in perfect condition and assembled fine. I did not use the included seat and seat post. Instead I used an Easton EA70 post and Specialized Henge Comp seat I had that weight a combined 240 grams.
> 
> I went out and got some dirt on the tires riding around my place and everything functions well. I like it!
> 
> ...


Did you need to use the hub spacers up front?


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Seriously, are we getting 135mm front hubs? I thought a 150mm front hub was part of the sell for this bike...


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> BD doesn't list the snowshoe XL as being spec'd on any of their bikes anymore - all Snowshoe 4.5's in different TPI and compounds, but no XL's. Did you get Snowshoe XL's on your sturgis?


I don't recall but they do say 5.0 on them (vs. my other snowshoe that is 4.5) - I put them next to the H-Billie last night when I had them off to do the rim strips and they are a bit wider. I did not think to grab a tape measure and see the actual difference.

The H-Billie and Snowshoe are exactly the same width and look to be made on the same carcass. These Snowshoes are certainly wider.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

AndrewZorn said:


> Seriously, are we getting 135mm front hubs? I thought a 150mm front hub was part of the sell for this bike...


Who makes a 150 front hub that doesn't use spacers/end caps? Almost all of the current hubs are 135mm hubs with spacers/end caps to make them fit the 150 Bluto.


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

Seems like a benefit of having the 135mm spaced hubs is that there are a few more options out there right now for rigid forks with 135mm spacing.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Destr0 said:


> Who makes a 150 front hub that doesn't use spacers/end caps? Almost all of the current hubs are 135mm hubs with spacers/end caps to make them fit the 150 Bluto.


I don't have the Bluto model. And usually spacer/end caps are pressed into the hub not pressed on the outside diameter like these. I only care because I haul my bike inside my CRV, gotta take the wheel off every time, don't wanna lose the spacers.


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## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

or existing 29er summer/narrower options?


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> Who makes a 150 front hub that doesn't use spacers/end caps? Almost all of the current hubs are 135mm hubs with spacers/end caps to make them fit the 150 Bluto.


Um, Novatec does, right? And I would rather have the benefit of the wider hub and flange-to-flange distance. Using a 135mm hub with spacers to fit a 150mm spacing seems lame.

ISSUU - Novatec hubs guide 2014 by Novatec
I thought we were getting the D201SB and D202SB (page 14).

BikesDirect page says: "NOVATEC FRONT DISC HUB 32H, 15mmx150mm Thru-Axle." That's not the same as a 135mm hub with spacers. Would have been just as easy to say that. Edit: ugh, unless the 150mm is referring only to the thru-axle. Lame if so. Kind of deceptive to call it a 150mm front spacing fork/axle if the benefits aren't there.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

to those weight weenies. ill chime in. According to UPS my box weighs 30 lbs. Its a medium Night Train.  This UPS Guys needs to come ASAP.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

siv said:


> Did you need to use the hub spacers up front?


Yes, I did. The hub would be way to narrow and pinch the forks together without them.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Looks like the hubs are 135 then. Email sent, see what he says.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Tonggi said:


> to those weight weenies. ill chime in. According to UPS my box weighs 30 lbs. Its a medium Night Train.  This UPS Guys needs to come ASAP.


This means nothing at all.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Destr0 said:


> I don't recall but they do say 5.0 on them (vs. my other snowshoe that is 4.5) - I put them next to the H-Billie last night when I had them off to do the rim strips and they are a bit wider. I did not think to grab a tape measure and see the actual difference.
> 
> The H-Billie and Snowshoe are exactly the same width and look to be made on the same carcass. These Snowshoes are certainly wider.


"5.0" would be wrong as well. The Snowshoe XL's are marketed as a 4.8" tire. The only tire "marketed" as a 5" tire that I know of right now is the Dillinger5. And even they are pretty candid that it is a 4.8" tire. I've seen a D5 in person, and I don't think it "looked" even 4.8", but I had no calipers on hand to measure. Just gut feel.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

If they include spacers, the hub is 135


Pedaling


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

rjedoaks said:


> If they include spacers, the hub is 135
> 
> Pedaling


Can someone take a picture of these "spacers"? In the detailed pictures of the Lurch, which should be using the same hubs, they are true 150mm hubs, but it is the "end caps" that change between QR and 15TA. I wonder if people here are just confusing an end cap with a spacer. I highly doubt they would use a different wheelset between the lurch and the Sturgis/Night Train.

In the picture below, this isn't a "spacer". This is considered an "end cap", making it a 150mm hub with a 15mm TA endcap. And thre has not been one complaint on the Lurch forum about the bikes coming with 135mm hubs with extender spacers to make it fit a 150mm fork.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

neons97 said:


> Can someone take a picture of these "spacers"? In the detailed pictures of the Lurch, which should be using the same hubs, they are true 150mm hubs, but it is the "end caps" that change between QR and 15TA. I wonder if people here are just confusing an end cap with a spacer. I highly doubt they would use a different wheelset between the lurch and the Sturgis/Night Train.
> 
> In the picture below, this isn't a "spacer". This is considered an "end cap", making it a 150mm hub with a 15mm TA endcap. And thre has not been one complaint on the Lurch forum about the bikes coming with 135mm hubs with extender spacers to make it fit a 150mm fork.
> 
> View attachment 937301


This sounds right and I hope it is true.

My NTB is a couple miles away. It's arrived at the local sort facility. I tried calling and arranging for pickup, but they said they aren't going to unload the truck or something until Monday so I can't do anything but it let it sit there all weekend. So painful!


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

wildskycomet said:


> or existing 29er summer/narrower options?





neons97 said:


> Can someone take a picture of these "spacers"? In the detailed pictures of the Lurch, which should be using the same hubs, they are true 150mm hubs, but it is the "end caps" that change between QR and 15TA. I wonder if people here are just confusing an end cap with a spacer. I highly doubt they would use a different wheelset between the lurch and the Sturgis/Night Train.
> 
> In the picture below, this isn't a "spacer". This is considered an "end cap", making it a 150mm hub with a 15mm TA endcap. And thre has not been one complaint on the Lurch forum about the bikes coming with 135mm hubs with extender spacers to make it fit a 150mm fork.
> 
> View attachment 937301


That's not what we got. What you're showing is like a sleeve that inserts into the hub. What we're getting is similar but it fits on the outside diameter of the hub not inserted.


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## brulebike (Mar 25, 2009)

There should be plenty of traction in cold hard snow with these tires. I don't know if any tire will work well in wet soft snow. My 19" NT has made it to S Wisconsin, almost here, "I can hear the train a comming, rolling down the track"-Johnny Cash.


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## 13eard (Oct 3, 2014)

med 17.5 nighttrain today.
started at 33lbs.. down to 30lb 3oz w/o pedals
new seat charge spoon (-105)
new tubes Q superlight 2.4-2.75 245g each / stock 600g each (-705g)
new grips -wcs foam (-40g)
removed plastic crap/ reflectors (-110g)
ditched front shifer and front derai added RF NarWid 30t (-325g)


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

siv said:


> That's not what we got. What you're showing is like a sleeve that inserts into the hub. What we're getting is similar but it fits on the outside diameter of the hub not inserted.


Picture please!

I assume the 15TA end cap will not "insert" into the hub, as the hub's axle itself is designed for a 15TA. The reason the 9mmQR inserts is that the QR skewer itself is only 5mm in diameter, so they can afford to insert it into the hub's axle for more stability.

I would expect the 15TA end cap to be like a sleeve that sits over top of the bearing that we see in this picture. Below, picture is not for NOvatech, but you'll see that on the left this is what I would expect a 15TA end cap to look like, IF the QR were to look like the one on the right.

In the end, it's only 7.5mm on either side of the hub. If our hubs are 135 and 150 compatible, all the better.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

13eard said:


> med 17.5 nighttrain today.
> started at 33lbs.. down to 31lb 14oz w/o pedals
> new seat charge spoon (-105)
> new tubes Q superlight 2.4-2.75 245g each / stock 600g each (-705g)
> ...


Get rid of those stock rim strips - they weigh 160g....each. Simple duct tape strip is much. much lighter.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

13eard said:


> med 17.5 nighttrain today.
> started at 33lbs.. down to 31lb 14oz w/o pedals
> new seat charge spoon (-105)
> new tubes Q superlight 2.4-2.75 245g each / stock 600g each (-705g)
> ...


Very nice!

And if anyone is interested - do not try to use the normal Q-Tubes. They do not work for a fat bike, only the superlights- my LBS did not have the SL in stock so I grabbed a normal 26x2.4 tube (only one BC I was not sure it would work). It does not inflate uniformly as it has ribs of additional material every once in a while. The tube was so fat in places the tire would not sit in the bead while other places the tube was still "normal" diameter. I ordered a couple SL tubes so will be riding on the Vee heavy tubes this weekend.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

13eard said:


> med 17.5 nighttrain today.
> started at 33lbs.. down to 31lb 14oz w/o pedals
> new seat charge spoon (-105)
> new tubes Q superlight 2.4-2.75 245g each / stock 600g each (-705g)
> ...


13eard, can you tell me your height an inseam? Wondering on the fit of the 17.5" frame?


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## 13eard (Oct 3, 2014)

going 1x now.. pulling stuff off.


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## sirsam84 (Sep 20, 2006)

How solid do these frames seem? I'm 260 lbs (and 7 ft, but I've made 21 inch bikes work before with riser bars and long seatpost) and am interested but a bit afraid of destroying the frame....


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I am probably pushing 260 with all my gear - 240 without shoes.  I ride with a camelback stuffed with tools N spares for both me and my 9 year old son.

I have zero fears of destroying this frame, I thrash a Moto 29er hardtail - broken nothing on the bike that wasn't 100% my fault in about 1500 miles.


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## 13eard (Oct 3, 2014)

updated 

med 17.5 nighttrain today.
started at 33lbs.. down to 30lb 3oz w/o pedals
new seat charge spoon (-105)
new tubes Q superlight 2.4-2.75 245g each / stock 600g each (-705g)
new grips -wcs foam (-40g)
removed plastic crap/ reflectors (-110g)
1x - ditched front shifter and front derai added RF NarWid 30t (-325g)


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## 13eard (Oct 3, 2014)

im 510.5 in socks.. 6ft in shoes.. wear 32in seam pants.

frame geo matches my moto titanium fly.
im kind of inbetween sizes.. m-L.
I usually go with the smaller bike. 
both bikes have a fairly long top tube.. I don't feel cramped.
fat and 29 are gonna have longer chain stays.. if I was on a 26.. id want a L


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

hartzpad said:


> 13eard, can you tell me your height an inseam? Wondering on the fit of the 17.5" frame?


More pictures please so those of us still waiting can share in the fun!....and dream of what is soon to be!


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Got my baby in. Went for a spin outside. man its awesome. 

I made the 1*10 conversion with wolf tooth and 16t. Very fun bike. Gotta mess with pressures. I'm at 10 and it felt bouncy and tramlined on the pavement. I cant wait for the trails! Pics below.

Edit:

17.5" Night train
1x10
Wolf Tooth
ESI Chunky
Specialized wide flat bar
Tubes

34.2 lbs


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

Brilliant! Thanks. This is great therapy.



Tonggi said:


> Got my baby in. Went for a spin outside. man its awesome.
> 
> I made the 1*10 conversion with wolf tooth and 16t. Very fun bike. Gotta mess with pressures. I'm at 10 and it felt bouncy and tramlined on the pavement. I cant wait for the trails! Pics below.
> 
> ...


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

13eard said:


> updated
> 
> med 17.5 nighttrain today.
> started at 33lbs.. down to 30lb 3oz w/o pedals
> ...


What did you use to weight this? Tonggi below has about the same modifications as you except for the seat, and he gets 34.2lbs (assuming "tubes" means "light tubes"). You get 30.2 lbs. Even if his tubes were a tad heavier around 350g each, that's only 1/2 lb heavier than you.

I'm just living vicariously through you guys as mine is still "stuck in customs" with no update from BD at all.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

I re weighed it. I put myself in first. Then I weighed with bikeCame out to 35.4 pounds. That is with the pedals. the 34 was WITHOUT pedals.When I say tubes. I mean the tubes that came with the bike. The stock ones. So maybe if I go tubeless it will be 1-2 lbs less? Also maybe add half a lb because I gorilla taped one wheel.


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## 13eard (Oct 3, 2014)

all my gram weights are done with a mail scale.. the bike was being weighed with a dial fish scale lol.. ive compared the fish scale to other scales and its usually on. 
also once I added up and minused the stuff I took off. the fish scale showed the correct lower weight.. so maybe the start is off.. but I def lost 2.8lbs+


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

13eard said:


> im 510.5 in socks.. 6ft in shoes.. wear 32in seam pants.
> 
> frame geo matches my moto titanium fly.
> im kind of inbetween sizes.. m-L.
> ...


Thank you for the input. I'm 5'11" and 33" inseam and I ordered. 17.5", tried to change it to a 19" Large and there are none. I don't want to regret a bike that is too small. I ride a Stumpjumper FSR 29er in Size Large right now, it is big not not too big for me.


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## sirsam84 (Sep 20, 2006)

Thanks! I ask because I have broken 8 frames since 2005...almost all at the top tube seat tube junction or just in front, and all on non reinforced or non gusseted designs...



Destr0 said:


> I am probably pushing 260 with all my gear - 240 without shoes.  I ride with a camelback stuffed with tools N spares for both me and my 9 year old son.
> 
> I have zero fears of destroying this frame, I thrash a Moto 29er hardtail - broken nothing on the bike that wasn't 100% my fault in about 1500 miles.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I have broken two frames myself - one a GT Karakoram that was used and abused, the other was a Trek 9800 carbon bike that cost me $2500 or so back in 1994 or so. Broke it on the first ride and Trek replaced it with a brand new Y frame - they said I would just break another carbon bike.


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## 13eard (Oct 3, 2014)

as stated before.. motobecane are kinesis frames.. the titanium ones are by ORA..

kinesis makes a ton of companies frames..
from wiki
Brands also manufactured by Kinesis include Diamondback Bicycles, Felt Bicycles, GT Bicycles, Schwinn, Jamis, K2, Raleigh, Trek, Kross and Kona — as well as the brands marketed by the U.S. company Bikesdirect.com: Motobecane USA, Dawes USA, Cycles Mercier, Windsor America.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

Broohaha said:


> Mr. UPS delivered as promised. Needless to say, I was kinda stoked...
> 
> Figured some people might want additional pics (even if I only have the black, non-bluto...) A couple rubs on the paint from shipping, but everything came clean with a little clear coat safe compound.
> 
> ...


Is it just me or do the rim holes look larger on the rear rim than the front?


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

Do I have to take apart and grease the hubs? I've never done that.
Somehow with all the anticipation, my mind went blank when it arrived last night at 7pm. I didn't even know what to do with it. So I got up early and put it together. I only greased one side of the bottom bracket because I couldn't get the drive side to come out. This is an awesome looking bike. The pictures stink.
Hmmm I wonder what's in that little box?

Do people cut down the seatpost? Mine is hitting the bottle hanger bolts.

Here's Sturgis Bullet 17.5 in White. Better pictures later in the day.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Ugh, does that mean the bottom bracket ISN'T greased? How is BikesDirect still making the same mistakes?

And not to insult your bike knowledge or anything, but just making sure you know about the reverse threading...


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

I have little knowledge to insult, I'm really a newbie when it comes to bikes. Most of my riding was over 30 years ago and we didn't have to do anything with our bikes back then except ride them. I went to grease it because I thought that was what I was supposed to do, unless it isn't important on external BBs. Easier to grease it than research it. So away I went. I didn't want to force it though to get the drive side out. Don't want to do more damage than good.
I do know about the left threads on the BB and the pedals. Just like the lug nuts on my old Barracuda.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Here's mine with a touch of gold.

Bike shipped with rear derailleur hitting the spokes and front derailleur way off. Bummer.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

No one has posted and red color Sturgis Bullets, has anyone received one yet? That is what I am waiting for.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

pearsth said:


> Here's mine with a touch of gold.
> 
> Bike shipped with rear derailleur hitting the spokes and front derailleur way off. Bummer.
> 
> View attachment 937474


Gold accents are baller! What'd ya use for rim strips, process?


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

pearsth said:


> Here's mine with a touch of gold.
> 
> Bike shipped with rear derailleur hitting the spokes and front derailleur way off. Bummer.
> 
> View attachment 937474


Looks awesome. Finally a matte black with Bluto, and he's made it look too cool to know what mine will look like.



ETChipotle said:


> I have little knowledge to insult, I'm really a newbie when it comes to bikes. Most of my riding was over 30 years ago and we didn't have to do anything with our bikes back then except ride them. I went to grease it because I thought that was what I was supposed to do, unless it isn't important on external BBs. Easier to grease it than research it. So away I went. I didn't want to force it though to get the drive side out. Don't want to do more damage than good.
> I do know about the left threads on the BB and the pedals. Just like the lug nuts on my old Barracuda.


So... were the threads dry? I think a lot of us are dying to know. I only have a GXP bottom bracket wrench, I think... and I've never pulled cranks with that style before. I just don't want to get into a frustrating ordeal (like it always becomes) for no reason.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

no update on shipping label on my 17.5 nighttrain bluto. Still stuck in customs and not even an update. This sucks...


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

siv said:


> Gold accents are baller! What'd ya use for rim strips, process?


One wrap of Gold Duck Tape.

http://www.amazon.com/Duck-280748-Metallic-Colored-1-88-Inch/dp/B0065LRTES/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415457566&sr=8-1&keywords=gold+duck+tape

Then, two wraps of 3M Transparent tape.

http://www.amazon.com/3M-Transparent-1-88-Inch-20-Yard-2120-A/dp/B0000DH8I8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415457269&sr=8-1&keywords=clear+scotch+duct+tape


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

Do these not have external cup bottom brackets?

Also...... Anyone get shots of the front end caps?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

That looks really cool. Looks like you were up late putting it together. My NT Bullet arrives Monday. More pics when finished please!



pearsth said:


> Here's mine with a touch of gold.
> 
> Bike shipped with rear derailleur hitting the spokes and front derailleur way off. Bummer.
> 
> View attachment 937474


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

*Q*



AndrewZorn said:


> Looks awesome. Finally a matte black with Bluto, and he's made it look too cool to know what mine will look like.
> 
> So... were the threads dry? I think a lot of us are dying to know. I only have a GXP bottom bracket wrench, I think... and I've never pulled cranks with that style before. I just don't want to get into a frustrating ordeal (like it always becomes) for no reason.


Okay when you put it that way, the threads looked dry to me. There were some flakes that looked like dried up threadlock or something. I greased up the non-drive side threads. I'm using a park BBT-9, and that fits right.

Also, below I've attached pictures of the front spacers, leaning up against the QR Tube (QR lever to the right).


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

It sounds like the NT Bullet needs a thorough going over. I'm checking my tools box. I've got a Park BBT-9. Any other specific tools you had to use?



ETChipotle said:


> Okay when you put it that way, the threads looked dry to me. There were some flakes that looked like dried up threadlock or something. I greased up the non-drive side threads. I'm using a park BBT-9, and that fits right.
> 
> Also, below I've attached pictures of the front spacers, leaning up against the QR Tube (QR lever to the right).
> 
> ...


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

One last picture of the spacers


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

trailwerks said:


> Do these not have external cup bottom brackets?


Here's what it has:


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

That's the tool I have, I guess I'll grease bottom bracket and headset. Probably no chance of riding this thing the day it's delivered...

Spacers look like they are adapting a 135mm hub to the 150mm spacing. That's so stupid. Big letdown.


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

pearsth said:


> One wrap of Gold Duck Tape.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Duck-280748-Metallic-Colored-1-88-Inch/dp/B0065LRTES/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415457566&sr=8-1&keywords=gold+duck+tape
> 
> ...


Did one roll of the colored duct tape do it?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

ETChipotle said:


> Okay when you put it that way, the threads looked dry to me. There were some flakes that looked like dried up threadlock or something. I greased up the non-drive side threads. I'm using a park BBT-9, and that fits right.
> 
> Also, below I've attached pictures of the front spacers, leaning up against the QR Tube (QR lever to the right).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the photos. So, you have the aluminum for not the bluto? This may be specific to this fork?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Apparently spacers come with Bluto and non-Bluto bikes. Why didn't they just make the rigid fork 135, they're non selling them aftermarket? Saw a Trek Farley today, kinda wish I went with a bike that was 135/170, cleaner, no spacers everywhere.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

AndrewZorn said:


> That's the tool I have, I guess I'll grease bottom bracket and headset. Probably no chance of riding this thing the day it's delivered...
> 
> Spacers look like they are adapting a 135mm hub to the 150mm spacing. That's so stupid. Big letdown.


You bought a cheap bike...and it's a let down that there are some cheap parts on it?
Now that's stupid


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

That 150mm hub was specifically listed in the specs, and has been on cheaper models from BD. It's a bait and switch, and some disappointment is warranted. 

That said, it's not a critical difference, and it doesn't make sense to spec a 135 fork. That would turn away people who want the option to upgrade later.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

trailwerks said:


> Did one roll of the colored duct tape do it?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Yes and there is some left over. Not sure how much as I don't want to unroll it to see.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

So, for those tracking weights -

Nigh Train Bullet 17.5 - 32 lbs 9 oz including platform style pedals with clips (nothing fancy). Weighed with a Park Bike scale, not bathroom scale shenanigans.

What I changed so far:

Replaced rim strips with duct tape (one wrap of color, then two wraps of clear)
Q-Tube SL 2.4 - 2.7
I put on some gold bling, but nothing titanium, so let's call that a wash.

I think there is easily another 2-3 pounds to be saved - seat, seatpost, bars, stem, and lightweight pedals. Especially if you go carbon on the cockpit. After that, not sure what else to go after that wouldn't be a significant change.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

ETChipotle said:


> One last picture of the spacers
> View attachment 937482


Without measuring, these could either be proper "end caps" that cover the bearing/axle, or they could be "spacers" to make a 135mm hub 150mm. Given that there are o-rings and lips on the inside of these "cups", I would say they are actually 150mm x 15 end caps/cups and NOT 7.5mm spacers. I would guess that the hub's axle rests on the I.D. of that and sits flush with the end cap. If that's the case, this is a proper 150mm hub.

As we see from the Lurch close-up shots, the bearing is exposed when the end caps are removed and there is a recess between hub shell and axle. So this would make me think that's where the O.D. of these end-caps shown would sit.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Anyone going to try tubeless? Also, Pearsth, I'm sorry if this is a dumb question but when you put the gold duct tape around it, doesn't the sticky side face the open air. Is there any concern for stuff getting stuck to it while biking?


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

pearsth said:


> So, for those tracking weights -
> 
> Nigh Train Bullet 17.5 - 32 lbs 9 oz including platform style pedals with clips (nothing fancy). Weighed with a Park Bike scale, not bathroom scale shenanigans.
> 
> ...


So 32lbs 9oz with pedals, but with Qtube SL and rim-strip mod. The Q-Tube SL's are worth 700g as per below, and rim strip mod...let's call it another 50G per wheel, so 800g total. Assuming 1 lb pedals. So we're talking about 33lb 6oz. stock/out-of-the-box, without pedals. That's very light.

As you noted, carbon cockpit, lighter seat, lighter cassette (XT is worth about 4-5oz), 1x (worth about 12-14oz), Crankset (Turbine Cinch worth about 5-7 oz. Next SL worth about 8-12 oz.). There's still 2-3 lbs without going too crazy.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

Still no email or tracking action for me. I called the number and their was politely zero information as to when they may be released..but...

While all you 'lucky' ones play with your toys and bore of them while nick-picking and considering what tire/crank/handlebar/etc will make it better I am still basking in that Christmas-eve anticipation of my sweet KTM orange Sturgis with Samox 2x cranks, semi-knobby tires, and a possible 135mm spaced front hub. 

Hopefully others are also enjoying the painful wait.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Whenever someone gets their hands on a small, I'd love to see a good toe overlap picture.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

neons97 said:


> Without measuring, these could either be proper "end caps" that cover the bearing/axle, or they could be "spacers" to make a 135mm hub 150mm. Given that there are o-rings and lips on the inside of these "cups", I would say they are actually 150mm x 15 end caps/cups and NOT 7.5mm spacers. I would guess that the hub's axle rests on the I.D. of that and sits flush with the end cap. If that's the case, this is a proper 150mm hub.
> 
> As we see from the Lurch close-up shots, the bearing is exposed when the end caps are removed and there is a recess between hub shell and axle. So this would make me think that's where the O.D. of these end-caps shown would sit.


I believe those are only end caps and not 7.5mm spacer conversions. I have ones very similar for my hope hoops pro 2 evo front hub on my hard tail 29er that convert the hub from quick release to 20mm thru axle. With those, I popped out the qr end caps and popped on the end caps and was able to use to 20mm thru axle of my fork.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## sirsam84 (Sep 20, 2006)

Anyone know if these are compatible with an angleset?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

silvbullit said:


> Still no email or tracking action for me. I called the number and their was politely zero information as to when they may be released..but...
> 
> Hopefully others are also enjoying the painful wait.


I am in the same boat...or packing container as the case may be...with you . No info and tracking tag still voided.

Here's to hoping that there is some news next week about the remaining bikes needing to be shipped. Not holding my breath :madmax:.

The way this wait is going for me, the Framed Alaskan Carbon frame I ordered will be ready before my NTB ships :thumbsup:


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

OnThaCouch said:


> I am in the same boat...or packing container as the case may be...with you . No info and tracking tag still voided.
> 
> Here's to hoping that there is some news next week about the remaining bikes needing to be shipped. Not holding my breath :madmax:.
> 
> The way this wait is going for me, the Framed Alaskan Carbon frame I ordered will be ready before my NTB ships :thumbsup:


I'm in the same boat. With this new "customs" delay, these bikes will end up being a full month (or more) late from their original date.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

neons97 said:


> I'm in the same boat. With this new "customs" delay, these bikes will end up being a full month (or more) late from their original date.


Yep. There's nothing they *PROBABLY* could do about it but I am wishing BD would offer some sort of consolation/peace offering (too redundant? :skep for those of us waiting so long.

First was the "we might not have enough parts" delay now the "our containers got stuck in customs" delay.

I pre-ordered way back in July. They've had my money almost 4 months and still no bike. I know they are good for it as the bikes are shipping but it is b pretty unreasonable for a company to expect a customer to wait 4 months for delivery for a product.

Rant off/:thumbsup:


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

OnThaCouch said:


> Yep. There's nothing they *PROBABLY* could do about it but I am wishing BD would offer some sort of consolation/peace offering (too redundant? :skep for those of us waiting so long.
> 
> First was the "we might not have enough parts" delay now the "our containers got stuck in customs" delay.
> 
> ...


I really don't think there's this "custom's" delay. I'm beginning to think it's just an excuse. Honestly, how many containers of these bikes did they get? Just two? And one got stuck in customs with some "new 29" wheels that fit these frames"? We should be seeing/hearing about a LOT more people with their bikes if only one container was held up.

Also, they keep on claiming that they have told their freight forwarder that these containers are a hot-rush. Well...I've done a little bit of logistics in the past and while a rush can be put on, there's usually a cost associated with rushing. I'm starting to think that the bikes were later than they thought, both leaving the factory, at sea, through the port and railheads. So they only "paid" for the rush on one container, just to meet their November 10th deadline, and then the rest are coming their merry/delayed way, and all-the-while, they are just blaming the rest on customs delays which none of us have any evidence to be able to refute. Think about it..if virtually every single bike on that container is pre-sold, and I have 100% of the customer's money...I don't have any more to sell, I don't have risk of missing the season, and competitors aren't going to steal my customers away...then why would I PAY to have those containers rushed at my own expense?

It's one thing to ask your forward to rush the container out of the goodness of their heart. It's likely another thing to actually do something about getting them rushed by paying the fee likely associated with a rush at this time of year.

And...as long as I have absolutely no more communication and sit living vicariously over those who received theirs...I'll keep dreaming up these scenarios...


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Maybe we need to start a "Bikes Direct X-Files" Thread...for all the conspiracy theories we can dream up between now and the time our bikes are delivered.

neons97 is off to a great start. With the little that the phone ladies know about the orders (telling me mine was shipping "today" and so sure about it) to how everyone is so "on script" with the exact same wording as the email to all of us...something is not smelling right about this delay :skep::eekster:


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

beachbum1 said:


> Anyone going to try tubeless? Also, Pearsth, I'm sorry if this is a dumb question but when you put the gold duct tape around it, doesn't the sticky side face the open air. Is there any concern for stuff getting stuck to it while biking?


Do some searches for Tubeless and you will see how to do the rim tape. Basically, you apply the tape "sticky side up" so the colored side shows through the holes. then, you go over the sticky tape with more layers of tape - sticky side to sticky side. That is why I bought the clear tape. Seemed to be the lightest tape from what I read and just as strong as regular duck tape. That went down in two strips and stuck 1/2 to the gold tape (again, sticky side) and half to the rim for each strip.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

pearsth said:


> Here's mine with a touch of gold.
> 
> Bike shipped with rear derailleur hitting the spokes and front derailleur way off. Bummer.
> 
> View attachment 937474


Looking good! Glad that tire worked out for you!

 Did a nice 10 mile ride today on my Sturgis Bullet (and my son rode his new Salsa Horsethief for the first time as well).
Bike tore up the single track - had a lot of fun, better on the leaf covered slick hard pack than my 29er has been on the last couple rides. Messed with tire pressures a bit and liked the ride out of the pressures I tried with about 15 up front and rear at 10 - 135PSI in the Bluto. Bluto feels a bit squishy still - my new bottomless tokens will be here next week.





















[IMG}https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hph...=ffd0b18eb62222bbe5369d6079d8d9e7&oe=54D397FE[/IMG]


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

There is some competition. I have an On One 456 EVO that is a blast and the build quality is great. I was damn close to getting the On One fatty instead of this but I fell victim to the parts spec of the moto. Typical. If the customs wait gets real dodgey than I will cough up the extra mula and gladly get the On One.

I am with neons... Customs is just not going to hold containers for long at all during this time of year especially. Maybe a day or two. A typical container is the size of a railroad car which is similar in size to an 18-wheeler trailer. Many many moons ago I worked for UPS unloading boxes at 4 am and it took me much less than an hour to unload a semi by myself containing nothing but boxes. A bunch of bike boxes is simple. They are just going to MAYBE crack a couple open to make sure some kids don't pop out and then check the packing sheet. Done.

There are only so many ports that these would come in and I would like to do some digging to follow the trail that these take. 

Either way, there is no real reason for me to complain until November 12 comes and goes as that is the last day that BD expressed that they may be shipped. 

We will see.

As soon as I get mine I am stripping it to the frame to weigh and then build back up the right way to put all this weight stuff to bed. The frame probably weighs 5.5 pounds and the rest is moot. The parts are what they are and the frame is decent enough to upgrade and keep for years. I am the most stoked on the progressive geometry more than anything. I am hoping that this slays the downhills for a fatty.


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## urmb (Oct 4, 2005)

...


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

I really feel for those that are waiting on their delivery and hope the wait is not much longer.
I work with customs and can tell you by first hand experience that extended delays are not common but do happen. When I say extended I mean 2 to 3 weeks. The typical hold is a day or two. 
They can hold it for inspection of goods by a simple paper trail check...
They can send the container for on site X-ray which can take several hours to as much as a day or more depending on their volume at the time.
They can send the container to an off site inspection facility were they will unload the entire thing sometimes by hand looking for God knows what, but the delay isn't usually that lengthy...maybe a day could be more.
The containers we normally use are 40 ft boxes but I have to assume that the bikes are not palletized so unloading and reloading one by hand takes a while but again a days time maybe more. By the way is were some damage is often made to the shipment.(Not allways UPS's fault)
Every inbound shipment has to have pre-authorization submitted to customs before it arrives which means a heads up that its coming and what it is carrying...24 hours typically. We have had to wait days for approval of submitted paperwork for entry. When a container is not properly processed from day one of its journey to its arrival at the border or port all hell breaks loose and a long hold can incure. We have had shipments held for a day waiting on a guard to simply open a gate to let them threw...Im not kidding. 
So if you add up all thats involved getting your bike to your door, and the delays that happen.. a day here...another day there.. you can see it simply is a delay no more no less.
Im not defending BD or trying to disprove conspiracy theories just getting in on the conversation hoping those still waiting get their bikes and get out riding!
On a different note my 17.5 Night-Train non Bluto going 1x10, Standard Q-tubes not Super-Lite which by the way work fine for me, different seat comes in at 33.4 pounds.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Also factor in that this is the busiest time of year for imports. If you've been following the news, the California ports are experiencing delays of several weeks and shipments are being diverted to the east coast. One mistake on the paperwork and these containers can sit for weeks. I feel they've been pretty open with the info. If you look around at some of the other fatbikes coming in at this time like Framed/Surly/Salsa, they've all been hit with repeated delays. This is what happens when you use contract manufacturing half a world away for something where demand is greater than supply.


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

urmb said:


> ...


Thats a good lookin fatty...but of course the view beyond is what it's all about. glad I ordered the black NTB. Hope customs lets go soon......


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Went for a first ride. I think I had too low of a pressure. I flatted. Definitely need a 30t up front. Need to go tubeless asap. 

Not a fan of the long stem as well. Otherwise brakes were great and bike was awesome. Gotta fix tire pressure and work on cadence to bounce less


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

silvbullit said:


> Customs is just not going to hold containers for long at all during this time of year especially. Maybe a day or two. Many many moons ago I worked for UPS unloading boxes at 4 am and it took me much less than an hour to unload a semi by myself containing nothing but boxes. A bunch of bike boxes is simple. As soon as I get mine I am stripping it to the frame to weigh and then build back up the right way to put all this weight stuff to bed. The frame probably weighs 5.5 pounds and the rest is moot. The parts are what they are and the frame is decent enough to upgrade and keep for years. I am the most stoked on the progressive geometry more than anything. I am hoping that this slays the downhills for a fatty.


I gotta go with this^^
I also worked at UPS in little Dover, NH and the preload a.m. shift of about 20 handlers would routinely empty 6-10 semi loads in about 5 hours! I mean how many train cars does Customs need to inspect over a 7 day period to HOLD THIS UP?? :madmax::madmax:


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

NH Mtbiker said:


> I gotta go with this^^
> I also worked at UPS in little Dover, NH and the preload a.m. shift of about 20 handlers would routinely empty 6-10 semi loads in about 5 hours! I mean how many train cars does Customs need to inspect over a 7 day period to HOLD THIS UP?? :madmax::madmax:


Where I work we routinely unload 5-10 containers and Dry Vans(53 and 48 foot regular semi trailors) an hour and I can tell you there is no comparing regular distribution handling to customs methodology when it comes to handling of goods for inspection. You are on their timeline and thats it.
We have had containers held for weeks with no apparent justification for the delay. It sucks but that is just the way things are at are borders and ports these days.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Oh I hear ya... I just need to vent my frustration. Nobody in Customs cares that impatient riders are waiting for their bikes to arrive. Just part of the pain of waiting so long and having it SO close to arrive...sucks is right!


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Oh I hear ya... I just need to vent my frustration. Nobody in Customs cares that impatient riders are waiting for their bikes to arrive. Just part of the pain of waiting so long and having it SO close to arrive...sucks is right!


Absolutely agree with you...Im sitting here with my bike 5 feet from me while I type. Easy for me to say just be patient :nono:


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

car_nut said:


> Also factor in that this is the busiest time of year for imports. If you've been following the news, the California ports are experiencing delays of several weeks and shipments are being diverted to the east coast. One mistake on the paperwork and these containers can sit for weeks. I feel they've been pretty open with the info. If you look around at some of the other fatbikes coming in at this time like Framed/Surly/Salsa, they've all been hit with repeated delays. This is what happens when you use contract manufacturing half a world away for something where demand is greater than supply.


I agree. For the record, I don't believe there are any shenanigans going on...just customs being customs :madman::madmax:. But poking fun at BD :ciappa::ciappa::ciappa: and thinking of all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories is more fun :thumbsup::thumbsup:.

If I had my fat bike by now, I wouldn't have the energy to sit here and do all this thinking and typing :ciappa::ciappa:.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Some of you guys complain a lot. You knew there was a chance of delay when you ordered. If you didn't, then you aren't paying attention to most of the threads in mtbr.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

tfinator said:


> Some of you guys complain a lot. You knew there was a chance of delay when you ordered. If you didn't, then you aren't paying attention to most of the threads in mtbr.


You obviously don't come here much, do you? 
What would we do if not complain on mtbr?

I think we are all WELL aware that there was the possibility of delay with the BD bikes. 
My issue with the delays are all the "false starts" I got on the delivery for my order. 
I do also think it is pretty reasonable for folks to want to NOT wait 4 months  for a product to be delivered.


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## Traktor (Oct 18, 2004)

These are looking like really nice bikes.

More pictures, ride reports, and bike reviews.

Less chatter about shipping containers.


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

@ Destr0 - That's the first batman tape I've seen in cutouts!

You doing the same tubeless approach as pearsth? Is that stock wheel/tire combo?


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Destr0 said:


> Looking good! Glad that tire worked out for you!


Thanks again for the tire...rode some today and it worked great.


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

Unpacked my 21" metal flake sturgis bullet this morning. Made some upgrades/changes with parts from other bikes i had:

X9 crank with 28t ring
oneup 42t cog
X9 shifter and mid cage derailleur
Lou on the back and Nate on the front
Superlight tubes
Shorter stem

Right now it sits at 34lb with pedals.

A few impressions:

The frame tubing, welds and paint quality look good.

I don't care for the paint color. It was well done, just not what i was expecting when i ordered. I was thinking it would be more grey, but i would call it a metallic black.

Spacers on the front hub aren't a big deal to me, they do fit with a little friction fit on the existing end caps. The only concern would be losing them. I could run a rigid fork with 135mm spacing if i need to.

Full cable housing is run through the downtube for both front and rear derailleur.

I will probably replace the saddle and post down the road to something a little nicer but they will do fro now.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

OnThaCouch said:


> You obviously don't come here much, do you?
> What would we do if not complain on mtbr?
> 
> I think we are all WELL aware that there was the possibility of delay with the BD bikes.
> ...


Expressing disappointment is one thing, saying that bikes direct owes you something now is a little ridiculous. Just saying, it's annoying when these threads turn to pages of UPS logistics.


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## 13eard (Oct 3, 2014)

9.5 miles on sat. 8.5 miles on sunday all SWPA single track.
had to tighten the headset.. kind of typical

185lb naked. rigid fork
rode 7psi front and 8psi rear.. felt pretty good
as of now.. SL 2.4-2.75 tubes.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

*More pics of bikes that did arrive and out on the trails PUH-LEASE!! .*

Here's to hoping all our bikes ship this coming week.


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## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

Definitely... more photos for those waiting folks. I think they help give us reason for waiting.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Whole lot of first world problems going on here 

We've gotten far more information than people on the Salsa/Surly waiting list have. It gets here when it gets here people. While you wait, got for a bike ride. Don't have a bike? Go for a run/hike. Better yet, trail work days. If it's December and we haven't gotten movement I'll be the first to grab a pitchfork. Until then? Chill people. Chill


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

car_nut said:


> whole lot of first world problems going on here :d chill people. Chill


qft!!


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

drmayer said:


> Unpacked my 21" metal flake sturgis bullet this morning. Made some upgrades/changes with parts from other bikes i had:
> 
> X9 crank with 28t ring
> oneup 42t cog
> ...


How did the new crank go on? Any special steps? Did you change the BB too? Fat bike crank?

Thanks!


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

fripp said:


> How did the new crank go on? Any special steps? Did you change the BB too? Fat bike crank?
> 
> Thanks!


X9 fat bike crank with new GXP BB. The direct mount ring is intended for a BB30 crank, which means the ring isn't offset toward the centerline of the bike. This gives more chain/tire clearance when running a Lou in the back. That crank probably wouldn't work with 2 rings, it's not wide enough.


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## doctor_spaceman (Sep 6, 2014)

17.5 Sturgis Bullet Arrived a day early for me!!! got it friday instead of the predicted monday! put it together on saturday. everything came pretty well assembled out of the box, but there were a few parts that certainly needed to be greased, Especially the bottom bracket. took it for a spin around the city mostly. It only saw a little dirt at the park. next weekend theres some snow in the forecast!!! Im hoping to get out to some trails and really see what this puppy can do!

























































I went to the LBS and got myself a Brooks Cambium. and borrowed their shock pump and pumped the Bluto up to 140psi (I clock in around 250, naked) I ditched the stock bars for my origin 8 pro rise wide bars. this beast is surprisingly quick on the uptake. but the true test will be the trails. It sounds like a Jeep with off road tires when I ride it on the pavement


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## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

car_nut said:


> Whole lot of first world problems going on here
> 
> We've gotten far more information than people on the Salsa/Surly waiting list have. It gets here when it gets here people. While you wait, got for a bike ride. Don't have a bike? Go for a run/hike. Better yet, trail work days. If it's December and we haven't gotten movement I'll be the first to grab a pitchfork. Until then? Chill people. Chill


I'd wager that most of the folks "talking" about waiting frustration have gotten back from jobs, projects, a ride, trail work, & life, but have taken another moment to check various sites for what they think will be some word about the thing they feel will make life that much more fun.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

wildskycomet said:


> I'd wager that most of the folks "talking" about waiting frustration have gotten back from jobs, projects, a ride, trail work, & life, but have taken another moment to check various sites for what they think will be some word about the thing they feel will make life that much more fun.


Hit the nail right squarely on the head to all of the above.

The "first world" problems comment is a cutesy little smartass comment that is too cliche to be humorous anymore. Now it is just annoying.

Again, I do not have a legitimate complaint until November 12 comes and goes without any shipping movement. I am just damn excited to get this thing torn apart, rebuilt, and dirty.

I have never ridden a fatbike. My local shop offered for me to test one out and I declined because I want the first experience to be with my own bike.

I have been riding and racing since 1994, and have thoroughly enjoyed all of the merits of full suspension since my first Heckler in 1997. Along the way I have resisted so many fads within the sport and I still do with 9-speed drivetrains and 26" wheels. I have ridden pretty much everything imaginable from 20-pound hardtails to DH bikes and 32 pound 180mm bikes and loved them all for what they were capable of.

But something about fat bikes have called out to me since I saw my first one in person and I am damn excited to see what the ride is all about. While lately for me it has been about racing and Strava more than 
getting out and enjoying time in the woods exploring and tractoring over some gnarly terrain. That is exactly what I am looking forward to with this bike. Something different.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

"While lately it for me it has been about racing and Strava more than just getting out and enjoying time in the woods exploring and tractoring over some gnarly terrain. That is exactly what I am looking forward to with this bike."

Thats great to here!!...one less speed freak taking time out from the Strava bragade to enjoy the ride and not just the finish line.

Happy Trails!


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

But there is a small contingent of winter fat-bikers in my area that have winter-only Strava segments so damn them for making those segments!


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## brulebike (Mar 25, 2009)

Tommorrow is the day! Worked all weekend knowing that my bike was sitting in the UPS warehouse less than a mile away. The boss asked me to work tommorrow, I said sorry I have a date with the UPS man, I don't think she was too happy, haha. I'm feeling bad for everyone still waiting to hear from BD, but LMAO at the posts. I'm sure I would be on the conspiracy side at this point. Big winter storm forecast for mon/tue, hope the UPS man can get here.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Got 9.5 miles of PA single track in today on my 19" purple Night Train. This is my first rigid bike so I'm a little feelin beat up, most trails are kinda rocky. I'd guess I ran my tires around 11-12psi, didn't have a spare tube so wanted to go on the higher side. Only thing I replaced so far are the grips. I'm still not sure what the deal is with all the spacers for the front hub and crank. Why didn't they just make the fork and BB to size to start?


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## danny31292 (Jul 20, 2011)

siv said:


> Got 9.5 miles of PA single track in today on my 19" purple Night Train. This is my first rigid bike so I'm a little feelin beat up, most trails are kinda rocky. I'd guess I ran my tires around 11-12psi, didn't have a spare tube so wanted to go on the higher side. Only thing I replaced so far are the grips. I'm still not sure what the deal is with all the spacers for the front hub and crank. Why didn't they just make the fork and BB to size to start?


I believe all fat bikes (170 and 190 rears) use a 100mm bottom bracket. The 190 rear requires the use of a 120mm spindle and spacers. 170 uses a 100mm spindle.


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## brulebike (Mar 25, 2009)

I may be the first one to post photos of a snow ride, 8-20 inches forecast for monday


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

burnedthetoast said:


> @ Destr0 - That's the first batman tape I've seen in cutouts!
> 
> You doing the same tubeless approach as pearsth? Is that stock wheel/tire combo?


Not going to mess with tubeless yet. Just Q-Tube SL that I ordered. Did 10 miles of singletrack yesterday and another 7.5 today.  Still playing with tire pressure but so far I am liking 14 in the front tire and 10 in the rear.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

I have not been able to ride my Sturgis Bullet on singletrack or snow yet. I did ride it down to the store my wife and I just bought in Rico, CO a couple of times this weekend and rode it around town a little. There will be plenty of snow this winter in the Rico area so I am excited.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

FYI for Sturgis buyers waiting on your bikes still, the Tektro brakes are awesome after a good break-in. I do not see any reason to upgrade them.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

mtb_fun said:


> FYI for Sturgis buyers waiting on your bikes still, the Tektro brakes are awesome after a good break-in. I do not see any reason to upgrade them.


That is what I would say after going down some inclines, I felt like I had good control of the brakes. I might switch out the seat, I like the looks of it but it's certainly not as comfortable as the one on my other bike. It was nice to get out and explore some local territory.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

I am on the waiting list as well.. and my shipping was said to be by the 10th of November which is today.. Do you really complain after the date? I dunno.. but this is holding everything up for me. Looking to order a Chinese carbon frame to swap everything over and need to see what fork steertube length is and everything. Can someone measure the fork steer tube length for me so I know if it will fit the frame I want to order? Seems like us from NH are out of luck on shipment...


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Few updates:

After my first ride and realizing my tire pump reading 10 PSI is NOT 10 PSI. got a flat and was pretty upset, every other bike I have is tubeless so I figure why not I Will attempt to make this tubeless. But before that, can anyone recommend a good low pressure tire pump/gauge?

Now onto the tubeless, I did the gorilla tape method, I first cut the wheel foam to be very skinny. I wanted the gorilla glue to contact as much of the rim as possible. The rims are pretty wide and I had the 2.88 wide gorilla tape, so I did 3 layers. One in the middle and one on each side. This was perfect, I tried one strip in the middle and 2 on just each side and BOTH leaked. Setting the bead is annoying and will take a while, Just keep blasting air in it and keep messing with the tire. I tried doing the set the bead with the tube trick and it didnt work so I did it the manual way and prayed. Once it hit I road around and bam its good to go. Left it overnight and no leaks. Just want to make sure I have the right tire pressure as it feels rock hard (for the bead to settle)

Now on to weight savings. Before hand I was at 35.2 pounds. Medium Night Train.
removed front derailleur and extra chain ring, 16 t and 42t cog in rear. SLX pedals. Different saddle

Now that I went tubeless I am at 31.2 lbs. That is 4 lbs savings just in tubes!! I did the bathroom scale method. 

I would like to get it to <30. that is 725 grams I need to save. some room in stem, seat post( for sure!) and I think thats it for now. AFter that it gets expensive.

I did LOVE the brakes. very firm and powerful, tons of modulation. Was very impressed for an AVid brakeset. Comparable to my XTRs on my trail bike but will need to do more rides to confirm


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

danny31292 said:


> I believe all fat bikes (170 and 190 rears) use a 100mm bottom bracket. The 190 rear requires the use of a 120mm spindle and spacers. 170 uses a 100mm spindle.


I'm still confused. Saw a Farley the other day, no spacers with a 170 rear. We have a longer spindle crank AND we need spacers? Maybe the Farley had a 120mm spindle crank (Race Face Ride). I guess my point is why not just make the BB shell 120mm instead of 100mm? Same with fork, make it 135 or give us a 150 hub. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice frame/bike and I was impressed with the wheel weight also.


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## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

Urban Phenom! "Is that from the Batman Movie?" Prob won't see picture of wheel off & locked up to street sign.


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## danny31292 (Jul 20, 2011)

siv said:


> I'm still confused. Saw a Farley the other day, no spacers with a 170 rear. We have a longer spindle crank AND we need spacers? Maybe the Farley had a 120mm spindle crank (Race Face Ride). I guess my point is why not just make the BB shell 120mm instead of 100mm? Same with fork, make it 135 or give us a 150 hub. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice frame/bike and I was impressed with the wheel weight also.


No fat bike has a 120mm bottom bracket. The Farley had a 100mm spindle and a 100mm bottom bracket hence no spacers. 190 bikes need a longer spindle to have the correct chain line. Spacers are required since the bottom bracket is only 100mm. As for the hub, bikesdirect could have cheaped out there.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

danny31292 said:


> No fat bike has a 120mm bottom bracket. The Farley had a 100mm spindle and a 100mm bottom bracket hence no spacers. 190 bikes need a longer spindle to have the correct chain line. Spacers are required since the bottom bracket is only 100mm. As for the hub, bikesdirect could have cheaped out there.


Not trying to be annoying just want to understand. If the BB shell is 100mm the spindle has to be longer to account for the threaded BB, spacers etc. I guess I'll have to take the crank off and measure everything because if I were to replace the crank is have no clue what size to order. Some aftermarket cranks give a chain line dimension, know what 190 equates to?


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

danny31292 said:


> No fat bike has a 120mm bottom bracket. The Farley had a 100mm spindle and a 100mm bottom bracket hence no spacers. 190 bikes need a longer spindle to have the correct chain line. Spacers are required since the bottom bracket is only 100mm. As for the hub, bikesdirect could have cheaped out there.


There is one chinese carbon frame that has an actual 120mm bb shell. But that's the only one I know of. 120mm effective bb shell width is required if you want to run a 2-ring set-up in the front for optimal chainline. If the frame manufacturers went to a 120mm bb shell width, the spacers on the crank spindle could be eliminated. However, the 100mm bb shell is optimal because it gives those who want to use a 1x front ring set-up the option to use a shorter spindle (i.e. designed 170mm OLD rear end) to lower the q-factor. With a 1x set-up, you don't need the extra spindle width to get optimal chainline as long as you get the right crank/ring set-up (e.g. RF cinch, direct mount with the ring flipped...gives you perfect 1x chainline on a 170mm O.L.D. crank spindle.). The only other issue at this point is whether or not the frame designer took this into account and made enough crank-to-chainstay clearance for the narrower q-factor. There is one report in the chinese carbon frame thread that using a crank meant for 170mm O.L.D. results in 0.5mm clearance between crankarm and chainstay. And under load and flex, the arm actually hits the chainstay.

For the front hubs, this is a Novatech issue more than BD. Did BD cheap out? I believe not. Novatech is proably the best no-name hub you could've spec'd. I don't know for certain, but I would hazard to guess that Novatech is possibly manufacturing the Sarma, 907 and Borealis hubsets (to different spec's of course).

I would hazard also to guess that many out-of-the-box fat-bikes out there are using the Novatech 150mm front hub with these end cap/spacer configuration (i.e. Rocky Mountain Blizzard, Kona, Felt, etc...all who spec generic, no-name hubs on their bluto-equipped fat-bikes).


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

My impressions on the Tektro brakes are the same as others - I have Deore, SLX and XT disc brakes on my other bikes and I think the Tektros are just as good and as much stopping power as the SLX/XT (I can tell Zero difference between the SLX/XT brakes when riding). The lever throw does feel different - a bit more throw than the Shimano, but not bad. Until I got a bit more used to them I was running one finger brakes with the levers slightly squeezed all the time.  I am 240lbs and had no need for any more stopping power. 

I completely hate the stock seat however. It is too wide, too short of a nose and the cover feels slippery to me. Ordered a new seat on Sunday (decided to give it one more ride after Saturday) Anyone want a WTB Speed V seat PM me, going cheap! 

I swapped out the seatpost and the stem - put on a Bontrager Race Light 90mm I had laying around. The stock seat has some setback to it so after I shortened up the cockpit I had a bit more upright position than I am used to. Not sure I can get used to it or not but going to wait for my longer seat and longer bars before I go back to a longer stem.

The Snowshoe tires seem fine - still dialing in the pressure - too low up front and I was getting tons of self steer. Felt best at about 14-15PSI w/ 135 PSI in the Bluto. Bluto at higher PSI didn't give enough small bump compliance, any softer with my weight and I was burning through all the travel on medium sized bumps. At 135 PSI I used about 75% of the travel on the trails, but I didn't really hit anything big. I have bottomless tokens coming - hopefully that will let me run lower pressure and have the compression ramp up quicker.

Super happy with the way this thing rides, just need some tweaking to make it awesome!


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## danny31292 (Jul 20, 2011)

siv said:


> Not trying to be annoying just want to understand. If the BB shell is 100mm the spindle has to be longer to account for the threaded BB, spacers etc. I guess I'll have to take the crank off and measure everything because if I were to replace the crank is have no clue what size to order. Some aftermarket cranks give a chain line dimension, know what 190 equates to?


check out this link. The whole fatbike standards things is a mess.

Salsa Cycles


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

neons97 said:


> There is one chinese carbon frame that has an actual 120mm bb shell. But that's the only one I know of. 120mm effective bb shell width is required if you want to run a 2-ring set-up in the front for optimal chainline. If the frame manufacturers went to a 120mm bb shell width, the spacers on the crank spindle could be eliminated. However, the 100mm bb shell is optimal because it gives those who want to use a 1x front ring set-up the option to use a shorter spindle (i.e. designed 170mm OLD rear end) to lower the q-factor. With a 1x set-up, you don't need the extra spindle width to get optimal chainline as long as you get the right crank/ring set-up (e.g. RF cinch, direct mount with the ring flipped...gives you perfect 1x chainline on a 170mm O.L.D. crank spindle.). The only other issue at this point is whether or not the frame designer took this into account and made enough crank-to-chainstay clearance for the narrower q-factor. There is one report in the chinese carbon frame thread that using a crank meant for 170mm O.L.D. results in 0.5mm clearance between crankarm and chainstay. And under load and flex, the arm actually hits the chainstay.
> 
> For the front hubs, this is a Novatech issue more than BD. Did BD cheap out? I believe not. Novatech is proably the best no-name hub you could've spec'd. I don't know for certain, but I would hazard to guess that Novatech is possibly manufacturing the Sarma, 907 and Borealis hubsets (to different spec's of course).
> 
> I would hazard also to guess that many out-of-the-box fat-bikes out there are using the Novatech 150mm front hub with these end cap/spacer configuration (i.e. Rocky Mountain Blizzard, Kona, Felt, etc...all who spec generic, no-name hubs on their bluto-equipped fat-bikes).


Great post man, thanks. I'm a machinist so I can make whatever size spacers I want. The only question I have for you is if you go to a 1X. You can't just eliminate the spacers even if you have crank arm to chain stay clearance, won't the spindle wanna stick out through the non drive side of the arm?


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Novatec has a 150mm front hub for fat bikes. BD just didn't use it. Probably just so they could use the same hub/rim combo for more of their bikes. It's disappointing.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

siv said:


> Great post man, thanks. I'm a machinist so I can make whatever size spacers I want. The only question I have for you is if you go to a 1X. You can't just eliminate the spacers even if you have crank arm to chain stay clearance, won't the spindle wanna stick out through the non drive side of the arm?


it depends what crank you have.. you would need a different spindle.. a 100mm spindle is 170 spaced. A 120mm spindle is a 190mm rear spaced. Most frames 170 or 190mm have a 100mm bottom bracket. 170 frames can run a 100mm spindle with no spacers. a 190mm frame needs to run a 120mm spindle. hope that's clear enough...


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

AndrewZorn said:


> Novatec has a 150mm front hub for fat bikes. BD just didn't use it. Probably just so they could use the same hub/rim combo for more of their bikes. It's disappointing.


But is the Novatec 150mm hub just the 135 with adapters? Have you seen one in person? The catalog lists a 150mm hub but until you have one in hand how can you know if it is a real 150mm or the same one included on our bikes. Not trying to start an argument, but I doubt Novatec has any other 150mm hub than the one we got on our bikes.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

I should clarify.. if you want to run 1x on a 190mm frame a 100mm crank spindle is needed to achieve a 170mm spaced Q-factor, like others have said. That's why the new race face cinch system is so popular for fatbikes lately as you can change spindles, chain-rings, spider or no spider etc..


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Destr0 said:


> But is the Novatec 150mm hub just the 135 with adapters? Have you seen one in person? The catalog lists a 150mm hub but until you have one in hand how can you know if it is a real 150mm or the same one included on our bikes. Not trying to start an argument, but I doubt Novatec has any other 150mm hub than the one we got on our bikes.


Stans older hubs used similar spacers as the ones pictured earlier in this thread. So does hope.. and I'm pretty sure so does the novatec 4 in 1. Grease the O-rings on those spacers a little and that might keep them in a little better.. but a spacer with an O-ring is not a spacer.. it's an endcap..


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

drmayer said:


> X9 fat bike crank with new GXP BB. The direct mount ring is intended for a BB30 crank, which means the ring isn't offset toward the centerline of the bike. This gives more chain/tire clearance when running a Lou in the back. That crank probably wouldn't work with 2 rings, it's not wide enough.


Can someone who is super knowledgeable with these fit questions please answer this for me:

Just so I understand, it seems we have 100mm BB on these bikes and need 120mm spindle setup (with spacers) so that the chainline is setup correctly because of the 190mm rear spacing. Correct?

So if I wanted to go to a 1x, say for example get the raceface NW ring and maybe add the 42 cog in the back, what crank size would I need to get? One made for 190mm or 170mm?

Would love to do this, and get rid of the spacers and just be 1x10, but I don't follow if the chainline would be out of whack...

Thanks for your input!


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

Petty question, but anyone near their large/extra large sturgis........ Can you measure the size of the motebecane logo. Length and height. 

Thank you


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

trailwerks said:


> Petty question, but anyone near their large/extra large sturgis........ Can you measure the size of the motebecane logo. Length and height.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


My bike is at home but you mean the big logo on the downtube?


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

Destr0 said:


> My bike is at home but you mean the big logo on the downtube?


Yes, exactly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mine is an XL and I can measure tonight when I get home...


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## dwilson (Dec 8, 2006)

*Sturgis Bullet update*







Sturgis Bullet update. Finally got a chance to get out a bit, although I was riding with my 4 yr old son and 6 yr old daughter so no real flogging was done. Doing my pre-ride check I went to adjust the brakes and noticed on the rear that the caliper's rear mounting bolt boss bumps into the seat stay. This is the Tektro Draco 180mm set up. This is caused by the 180mmm adapter moving the caliper up and reducing clearance to nill. I needed the space to get the brake centered. The fix? I took off the 180mm bracket/disc and put on a 160mm rotor which I think is fine on the rear anyway, problem solved. You could also maybe grind 1-2mm off of the caliper boss without issues, but do so at your own risk. Also with the 180mm rear set-up clearance to the rear caliper bolt is tight. Probably beyond the reach of most multi-tools making field service a no-go or difficult at best. I used a long ball tipped allen wrench which works fine but not something you would pack with you on a ride. Only other adjustments was adding fork air, removing tire air and checking torque for all of the usual bolts. Bike rides nice, derailleur's were indexing fine, although I'm a SS guy so I didn't really shift much. Best part is my kids made it 10 miles on single track with a 12" and 16" bike with no real meltdowns.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Can anyone with a bluto on a nighttrain measure how much steertube it comes with? Want to make sure itll fit my other chinese carbon frame..


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

manchvegas said:


> Can anyone with a bluto on a nighttrain measure how much steertube it comes with? Want to make sure itll fit my other chinese carbon frame..


That would depend on the frame size - the Sturgis/Nighttrain are the same frame so steer tube would be the same on either as long as it is the same size frame.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

"Best part is my kids made it 10 miles on single track with a 12” and 16” bike with no real meltdowns." -dwilson

I don't yet have kids but I am getting the itch and that comment cracked me up and made me happy all at the same time.

As far as the front hub goes, what is everybody's beef with having end-caps to space it out to 150mm? I personally would rather have a hub that could also run 135mm forks if need be. The hub flange spacing is a non-issue since even 100mm hubs have proven plenty durable through the years. The Hope hubs I run on all my other bikes use the same shell with interchangeable guts so that I can run QR, 20mm, or 15mm in the front which is different spacing for the 20mm and the adapters are just a little longer. Same deal with the rear, I can run 150 thru, 135 bolt-on, 135QR, whatever I want and that is the reason I run Hopes is because they can be switched between standards and bikes. I see the hub thing as a positive but I seem to be a minority...

I also don't understand why 1x is so desireable. I have never had a front derailleur fail and all of my buddies that switched to 1x either ended up walking some of our steeper technical uphills or switched back to 2x because no matter what you are giving up gear range and to me, that means less fun. Maybe I am a bicycle luddite already at 33 years old.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> But is the Novatec 150mm hub just the 135 with adapters? Have you seen one in person? The catalog lists a 150mm hub but until you have one in hand how can you know if it is a real 150mm or the same one included on our bikes. Not trying to start an argument, but I doubt Novatec has any other 150mm hub than the one we got on our bikes.


I haven't held one in my hand but I have seen pictures in their catalog. A 135mm hub with adapters is not a 150mm hub... especially when you are a hub manufacturer.

These bottom bracket bearing cups are sealed on with ****ing red Loctite. This is not fun. Build is taking a long time.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

My problem with the front hub spacers is losing them when I pull the wheel on and off to transport. Now I kinda need to buy a bike rack. Plus it's speced with 150mm not 135mm plus spacers. I just got an email reply from Larry at Bikes Direct and he said the spacers are to run a 15mm through axle fork instead if 9mm. Well duh, why would I use a 9mm qr in the first place, it came with an awesome 15mm TA fork? Whatever, I'm moving on. As for a single ring that's definetly personal preference. Maybe there's no climbs where they're from.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

I hope we aren't overreacting... has anyone measured the hub yet?

Edit: flange to flange outer is about 100mm, that's the best I can do right now. Will compare to Novatec catalog later.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

Spoke to BD this morning and they have no new info on our bikes stuck in customs. They will post updates to Facebook or email us directly.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Just got my NT Bullet. Not even a scratch from shipping so I was happy about that. I am not 100% positive but I strongly believe that this is a true 150 hub. Those end caps are merely for the thru axle and not to convert a 135 to 150. I have something similar for my hope hoop front wheel hub on my other bike. The end caps were needed to allow for the 20mm axle of the fork.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

siv said:


> My problem with the front hub spacers is losing them when I pull the wheel on and off to transport. Now I kinda need to buy a bike rack. Plus it's speced with 150mm not 135mm plus spacers. I just got an email reply from Larry at Bikes Direct and he said the spacers are to run a 15mm through axle fork instead if 9mm. Well duh, why would I use a 9mm qr in the first place, it came with an awesome 15mm TA fork? Whatever, I'm moving on. As for a single ring that's definetly personal preference. Maybe there's no climbs where they're from.





AndrewZorn said:


> I hope we aren't overreacting... has anyone measured the hub yet?
> 
> Edit: flange to flange outer is about 100mm, that's the best I can do right now. Will compare to Novatec catalog later.


Nope, time to totally overreact and freak the [email protected]#k out! THEY"RE NOT SPACERS! Its a 150 mm, 4 in 1 hub, that allows you to run multiple axle configurations, which is a good thing. Do some freakin homework.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

watermonkey said:


> Nope, time to totally overreact and freak the [email protected]#k out! THEY"RE NOT SPACERS! Its a 150 mm, 4 in 1 hub, that allows you to run multiple axle configurations, which is a good thing. Do some freakin homework.


Thank you for actually measuring.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

D101SB = 135mm
D201SB = 150mm

ISSUU - Novatec hubs guide 2014 by Novatec


----------



## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Here's a visual aid for the "hard-of-looking-for-$h!+"...


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Its cool it's multiple functional but I'm guessing most of us have this bike to save money not run a bunch of different forks etc, and no one is freaking out. So we have the D201SB and D202SB I'm guessing(At work)? I took the rear wheel off once and didn't notice and any end caps whatever like the front. Am I to assume the hubs come with a standard setup in mind with reducers based on desired setup?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

siv said:


> Its cool it's multiple functional but I'm guessing most of us have this bike to save money not run a bunch of different forks etc, and no one is freaking out. So we have the D201SB and D202SB I'm guessing(At work)? I took the rear wheel off once and didn't notice and any end caps whatever like the front. Am I to assume the hubs come with a standard setup in mind with reducers based on desired setup?


We have the 201sb and the hubs are made that way not for your convenience or annoyance but to allow the manufacturer to make one hub for multiple standards.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Based on the catalog we did get the 150mm hub - the flange to flange on it is 97.6 vs the 135mm hub has 79mm flange to flange. I know my hub is a lot wider FTF than 79mm - that would only be about half of the overall width on a 150 hub. 

Cheers!


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Negotiator50 said:


> We have the 201sb and the hubs are made that way not for your convenience or annoyance but to allow the manufacturer to make one hub for multiple standards.


Sounds good, makes sense. I have 2 bikes with 135 qr15 TA and never noticed anything like this, probably because they're not Novatech hubs.


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

So can any of you seasoned Mountain boys give a seasoned roadie a clue on what direction to go with a good seat and post for the NTB? The number of choices are a bit daunting......


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

gurleyman said:


> So can any of you seasoned Mountain boys give a seasoned roadie a clue on what direction to go with a good seat and post for the NTB? The number of choices are a bit daunting......


Best seat around - use it on all my bikes.

Charge Spoon Cromo Saddle > Components > Saddles and Seatposts > Saddles | Jenson USA


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

It isn't a 135mm in any way. It's definitely the 150mm, thank god. "3-in-1" is printed on the hub. 

Finally done assembling!


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

fripp said:


> Best seat around - use it on all my bikes.
> 
> Charge Spoon Cromo Saddle > Components > Saddles and Seatposts > Saddles | Jenson USA


Have it on my dh rig surprisingly light and cheap. It was lighter than the road saddle that Came on my 2014 caad10 105 by 40 grams. Awesome for $26!


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

watermonkey said:


> Nope, time to totally overreact and freak the [email protected]#k out! THEY"RE NOT SPACERS! Its a 150 mm, 4 in 1 hub, that allows you to run multiple axle configurations, which is a good thing. Do some freakin homework.


i mean, it's not TOTALLY wrong to call them spacers  Try putting the wheel on without them...i did, because i didnt see the end caps at first. i was very impatient. then there was all this side to side play and i got scared. Found my spacers ( i mean end caps, whatever!) and all is good. I just worry about losing them, they come over VERY easy.


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## dwilson (Dec 8, 2006)

Agree. The Charge saddles are great & reasonably priced. They make a Ti model for weight wennies.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

A few random Sturgis and Night Train bullets just got "restocked", if anyone was hoping to grab one.


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## brulebike (Mar 25, 2009)

It's 4:47pm, no Nighttrain delivery yet, I've been waiting all day, and now already 6-8 inches of wet heavy snow. I'm afraid my delivery will be cancelled today, so close and yet so far.


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## iCollector (Nov 14, 2012)

Mine came in with a single broken spoke on the front. Haven't done the whole serious assembly yet. Just saw that right off. I'll pick some spares up - should have them around anyway.

Other the that, a quick look - pristine!

Tomorrow I hope to have time to complete the setup and test ride. Gotta say - on looks - the bike is worth it.... Hope it rides as good as it looks!


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## HydroManEd (Aug 15, 2014)

anyone get there sturgis bullet yet ? I'm still waiting for ups movement on mine


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Took possession of my NTB today and there looks to be a lot of room in the back for larger tires. I'm not sure if that's because the tires that come with the bike run on the small side or this frame can in fact fit very large tires. Anyone put any other tire on the back other than the stock rear tire?


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

On the way. Thanks


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Holy Eff....there's movement on my tracking number. Due to me on the 14th.

If yours was one of the "customs" bikes, keep an eye on your tags.


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

OnThaCouch said:


> Holy Eff....there's movement on my tracking number. Due to me on the 14th.
> 
> If yours was one of the "customs" bikes, keep an eye on your tags.


LOL. Dude that's just cruel.....got all excited and nothin.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

gurleyman said:


> LOL. Dude that's just cruel.....got all excited and nothin.


Sorry...I know this wait is almost unbearable. I hope you get yours soon too.


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

OnThaCouch said:


> Sorry...I know this wait is almost unbearable. I hope you get yours soon too.


No worries I was laughing about it. I don't have much to complain about. Didn't order mine until 10/21. Can't imagine having waited since july


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## danny31292 (Jul 20, 2011)

Built mine today. Derailleur hanger was bent. Everything else looks good. Saddle sucked as I expected and I'm not a fan of the riser bars. Gotta go flat and wider. Also the seat post doesn't allow for any tilt. I did drop a pound and a half going from 600+ gram to 280g tubes!


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

*It's arrived! NT Bullet*

It's arrived! 19" NT Bullet. Out for delivery at 7:01 am, arrived 7:21 pm. Been on edge all day! Too dark to do any work so just took a picture of the box then my iPhone ran out. Typical! Seems very well packed with plastic bags and cardboard to prevent rubbing. Got out of box and everything looks OK from first appearance but light in my garage is preetty crap. Only thing to note was crank arm caught in spokes of separate front wheel but no damage I could see. There was a smell of grease so something's been lubed but plan to completely dismantle and lube as appropriate. Front disc is in separate bag with screws. Front handlebars separate allthough joined by brake and gear cables. No kinks in cables evident. Box of instructions and spare red rim tape. Tires pumped up and firm. Front end caps in small bag attached to front wheel. Saddle and post in separate bag. I've put on my bike stand and rear wheel rotates freely as does brake disc - no rub. Bluto forks well protected. Will post more pics tomorrow.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

For those of you saying you talked to bikes direct, what number did you call? Not getting a reply to an email for a replacement deralliur hanger


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## jazzer2 (Aug 14, 2006)

*Yeah Sturgis!*

Just got my Sturgis Bluto today, put it together in half an hour and took off!








I literally just had to put on the front wheel and brake, and the handlebars. It rides like its been tuned by a bike shop! No noises at all, smooth shifting.

Those front spacers are going to be a problem, need to find a way to fix them to the hub. I can easily see a lost spacer ruining a ride. Just taking the front wheel off is dangerous. Can we get spares?

The Tecktro brakes are great. I don't know if its just because they're new, but they are as smooth as butter.

Definitely a problem with the seat post hitting the bottle cage braze-ons in the inside of the seat tube. Need to cut the seat post.

At 5'7" the small fits me perfect, feels like a medium. The steering is different, but when I went back to my Trek Superfly that felt way twitchy.

I rode our leaf and pinecone strewn trails which are normally treacherous this time of year and I was able to really dig in and never found the breakaway point. Absolute traction, very stable handing, and it just rolls over everything. With the tires pumped to 12lbs I think I was faster than usual, have to ride with the posse to see how it keeps up. Let air down below 10 to smooth out the ride. Pumped them up to 18 and rode some paved roads - no bounce at all.

I'm not sure I'm ever going back.


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

jazzer2 said:


> At 5'7" the small fits me perfect, feels like a medium.


Hmm. Also 5'7", ordered the medium because I tend to like a more stretched-out feel and the measurements seemed similar to other bikes I fit. Hoping now that wasn't a mistake...


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

jazzer2 said:


> Just got my Sturgis Bluto today, put it together in half an hour and took off!
> View attachment 938137
> 
> 
> ...


Your ride experience is pretty much what I am expecting and excited about. When mine finally does arrive, I will see if some thicker o-rings will help hold those caps on better since I have thousands of o-rings on hand.

I am starting to think that I should have gotten a Bluto model instead dammit. My goal was light, simple, efficient and tire-based suspension but the more I read the more I feel like maybe I should have coughed up the $300.


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

silvbullit said:


> I am starting to think that I should have gotten a Bluto model instead dammit. My goal was light, simple, efficient and tire-based suspension but the more I read the more I feel like maybe I should have coughed up the $300.


Here's my thought: right now, the Bluto is pretty much the only game in town - but in a year or so I'm betting there will be at least 3-4 more options. So those of us who wait will either have other, potentially awesomer options, OR can buy a cheaper Bluto off one of the guys who has one now but will want the new shiny in a year.


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## jazzer2 (Aug 14, 2006)

burnedthetoast said:


> Hmm. Also 5'7", ordered the medium because I tend to like a more stretched
> 
> I think you'll be fine with a medium, I was expecting the small to be almost too tight.


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

jazzer2 said:


> I think you'll be fine with a medium, I was expecting the small to be almost too tight.


Good to hear! :thumbsup:


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## Tin Turtle (Sep 6, 2012)

No movement at all on my tracking number. Night Train, Purple, large


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

siv said:


> Great post man, thanks. I'm a machinist so I can make whatever size spacers I want. The only question I have for you is if you go to a 1X. You can't just eliminate the spacers even if you have crank arm to chain stay clearance, won't the spindle wanna stick out through the non drive side of the arm?


You can't just take out the spacers. You have to get a crank with the right spindle length. The Race Face Turbin/Next CINCH has replaceable spindles. Those are the only two cranks that can go 100/120mm spindle. Apparently the Cannondale Hollogram SI cranks have the same spindle interface as the RF Cinch line and can use a RF Cinch spindle.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

neons97 said:


> You can't just take out the spacers. You have to get a crank with the right spindle length. The Race Face Turbin/Next CINCH has replaceable spindles. Those are the only two cranks that can go 100/120mm spindle. Apparently the Cannondale Hollogram SI cranks have the same spindle interface as the RF Cinch line and can use a RF Cinch spindle.


Got my XL (21) Matte Black NTB today - first thing I did was throw on my bud / lou combo - bike is a friggin beast! Amazing quality bike, I'm honestly in awe of it! Can't wait to ride!!

Totally worth every second of the wait time!


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

While waiting for mine I was looking at the geometry. Does anyone know what head angle is accurate? Bikesdirect list 70.5 for the XL and the motebecane site lists 69.5. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

Destr0 said:


> Mine is an XL and I can measure tonight when I get home...


Thank you!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Finally rode mine, was awesome. The tires inspire so much confidence, I basically rode as fast as I could on the downhills. Uphill, the weight was noticeable, but the grip was nice. I'll go tubeless soon I think. I also believe the fork needs more air, so I will also address that before the next ride. Other than a badly scratched seatpost, the bike arrived undamaged. Exchanging the red Loctite for grease on the bottom bracket cups was awful. I am using a 60mm Hussefelt stem and SPD pedals.

I'm so glad I ordered a medium instead of a small. I'm 5ft 9in with a 29-30in inseam.

A few more notes:
- The tires were drastically overinflated in the shipping box, I think it stretched out the rim tape through the holes even, because they pudge out quite a bit even at lower pressure now. Looks weird. But I'll replace it someday anyway.
- The matte black actually looks awesome, I might not even cover up the ugly MOTOBECANE anymore because the paint actually looks good.
- The 'spacers' almost stay on, but I'm discouraging myself from trusting that. Taking them off and putting them in my pocket immediately after every tire dismount.
- The seatpost is in fact very long.
- I did not receive a remote lockout switch.
- The Guide brakes are wonderful.
- Oddly, neither derailleur required any adjustment at all - shifting is great. Maybe I'll study it later to see if it can be improved, but I noticed no issues.


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## Scow (Nov 5, 2014)

*can't wait*



jazzer2 said:


> burnedthetoast said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm. Also 5'7", ordered the medium because I tend to like a more stretched
> ...


----------



## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

fripp said:


> Got my XL (21) Matte Black NTB today - first thing I did was throw on my bud / lou combo - bike is a friggin beast! Amazing quality bike, I'm honestly in awe of it! Can't wait to ride!!
> 
> Totally worth every second of the wait time!


Pic included with bud/lou


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## iCollector (Nov 14, 2012)

danny31292 said:


> Built mine today. Derailleur hanger was bent. Everything else looks good. Saddle sucked as I expected and I'm not a fan of the riser bars. Gotta go flat and wider. Also the seat post doesn't allow for any tilt. I did drop a pound and a half going from 600+ gram to 280g tubes!


What tubes did you go with...? Thanks.


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## danny31292 (Jul 20, 2011)

iCollector said:


> What tubes did you go with...? Thanks.


q-tubes (not the super lights). I think they were 2.4-2.7".


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

AndrewZorn said:


> Exchanging the red Loctite for grease on the bottom bracket cups was awful.


Did you need to do anything special to get the bottom bracket off to grease it?


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## Broohaha (Apr 28, 2012)

silvbullit - Apologies on the very late reply. This thread blew up over the weekend (no surprise I guess.) I did notice that the 'bubbles' are larger on the front than rear with relatively the same air pressure. I hadn't considered hole diameter, so congratulations: you made me want to go out and check.

Based on my crappy measurement via tape, they are both 1.25". So likely my tire pressure gauge sucks at sub- 10psi measurement, as I thought I had my front/rear the same. (This assumes that I have larger pressure in the front is causing larger bubbles.)


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

Got mine in today and built/rebuilt it.

Changed the rim strips to glow in the dark tape backed by translucent duct tape. (GID tape from amazon, duct tape from amazon)

Switched the tires to on-one floaters and surly tubes I already had. Will eventually go tubeless but with different rims.


Had to clean+lube the bottom bracket threads. Highly recommend this otherwise noise down the road and harder to get it off later.
Rear brake was rubbing out of the box but quick to adjust.

Here are a few pics of Frosty the SnowBike and my wife's new XS mukluk, Beasty:








With added black light:








Black light only. Stays glowing a little dimmer than this at it's best charge but lasts a while:


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

Negotiator50 said:


> Did you need to do anything special to get the bottom bracket off to grease it?


Just a bottom bracket tool like the BBT-19


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## Broohaha (Apr 28, 2012)

A while back, someone asked about the seat tube and I couldn't find the post. Couple of folks are already on the same page: you'll likely want to cut the tube.

I cut 4" off of my donor, Thompson Elite post. That's one way to shave off 46g...


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Drove 40 minutes to pick me NTB up from Saginaw. Everything is perfect and the bike/wheels feel lighter than expected, even in stock form.

The reach is LONG on these IMO. I figured on swapping to a shorter stem and wider bars. The numbers suggest the front end is more stretched out, relative to the Fatboy, yet these come with much longer stems. I hate the feel of long stems, as you are swinging the bars around a radius, rather than turning them. Swapped out to a 750mm/85mm combo, and it's more like what I'm used to. Easier to hop and manual, and more direct steering. Might have reduced self steer, or maybe that's in my head... 

I'm on a flat black rig, but I'm loving the lighter option, as it shows the shape of the rear triangle better, which looks sweet. 

At 200 lbs, I put 150psi in the bluto, but still used most of the travel hopping around in the yard. The geo is better for stand and mash climbing than the large pugs it replaced. I can be sloppy with my body position without losing traction. Pretty happy right now.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

gurleyman said:


> LOL. Dude that's just cruel.....got all excited and nothin.


Finally have movement! Mine is also due to arrive on Friday, the 14!!


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

My bike is officially "late" was told shipped by the 10th.. still no movement at all on my tracking #.. med silver nighttrain


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

All of the silver night train bullets must be held up because I haven't seen a single one yet.


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Finally have movement! Mine is also due to arrive on Friday, the 14!!


Well if I get lucky enough to see movement it should show up the next day. I'm just 4hrs from Dallas.


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

@manchvegas, beachbum1 - There's a bunch of stuff I haven't seen yet (waiting on an orange sturgis myself). Also, it really doesn't matter what your ship time said... that was an estimate! What matters is when the bikes make it from customs to BD and get shipped.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

can someone please measure the steertube length on the bluto on a med nighttrain?


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## coot271 (Sep 15, 2010)

Tin Turtle said:


> No movement at all on my tracking number. Night Train, Purple, large


Hey Tin, post up a lotta pics on that purple beaut when it arrives. I wanna see it in natural light. Thnx


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## MIKE157 (Nov 30, 2008)

manchvegas said:


> can someone please measure the steertube length on the bluto on a med nighttrain?


8 inches


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

beachbum1 said:


> All of the silver night train bullets must be held up because I haven't seen a single one yet.


Mine is a silver NTB, 17.5". On it's way. Due here in CA on Friday.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

beachbum1 said:


> All of the silver night train bullets must be held up because I haven't seen a single one yet.


Not true....mine departed TX this morning, so keep a close eye on tracking.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Update below from Bikes Direct via email for those checking this page, facebook, and bikes direct multiple times daily like me....

Hi 
Thanks for your reply. 
We received an update from our CEO a few minutes ago. He told us he is keeping a very close watch on these and that they should be unloading in our Dallas TX warehouse this Friday. 
As soon as they land, we will ship them and email all customers.


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

beachbum1 said:


> All of the silver night train bullets must be held up because I haven't seen a single one yet.


Haven't seen a red one yet either (what I'm waiting for).
Hoping it's red like the swatch they posted and not orange-y like the bike they have on the page.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Tin Turtle said:


> No movement at all on my tracking number. Night Train, Purple, large


Likewise for me (same bike/size)


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

beachbum1 said:


> Update below from Bikes Direct via email for those checking this page, facebook, and bikes direct multiple times daily like me....
> 
> Hi
> Thanks for your reply.
> ...


Dangit... was hoping it would land in my driveway by Friday. Ah well, next week is better than the week after!


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## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

Several times...


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

Now I understand what all the fuss is about. Those front spacer/end caps fit on the hub really loose. Noob question; can I just epoxy them on? Would it interfere with future maintenance or something down the road?


----------



## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

FYI for those of you with bent derailleur hangers. They don't have any yet and hope to get them in and shipped this week for people who had an issue.


----------



## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

If anyone has a non-bullet version, can you measure the axle to crown dimension of the rigid fork?


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

*chainring*

Anyone know what i could replace the 36T chainring with from the Nighttrain bullet? I'd love to switch it out for a 32T (or even 30T) ring

Just don't not that knowledgeable in this area (can do the install, not the selection).

Also, I want to keep the 22t granny, so the replacement would need to handle that being bolted onto it I'm guessing.

First steps for me was looking for bcd 104/64 30 or 32T ring - good place to start?

If anyone has any suggested rings, that'd be wicked.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0B3KA5BXSE00WZFBCJMH

This is the chainring I am tempted to try. I am guessing it will fit, but may need some filing depending on the crank arm profile...


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

But that one won't allow the 22T granny to stick around will it?


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

*NT Bullet out of box pictures*




















































I'll post more as I build if anyone is interested


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

fripp said:


> But that one won't allow the 22T granny to stick around will it?


I believe it will - that is not the narrow wide chainring, but the one with ramps. It should have the same 104mm bolt pattern as the old one... I may just pull my 32 T ring off of my 29er to test fit - the 29er will probably not see much use for a while with the new toy and winter. I have a Race Face crank with 22/32/bash ring on the 29er so I believe that is the same chainring as I linked to (or very close to same thing).


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

fripp said:


> Anyone know what i could replace the 36T chainring with from the Nighttrain bullet? I'd love to switch it out for a 32T (or even 30T) ring
> 
> Just don't not that knowledgeable in this area (can do the install, not the selection).
> 
> ...


This is 30T Im using...works great no dropped chains. I ordered the red bolts as well to accent the ring.

104 BCD Chainrings ? wolftoothcomponents.com

Has a built in offset so the chain will clear the spider...highly recommend it. Gives you a chainline of about 76mm. But you will lose the 22 so if 1x10 is something your thinking of trying its a great option.


----------



## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

If you do, please update!

Thanks!


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

I'm just curious, why do you want to switch out the 36 for a 30? I'm really happy with the gearing as it is, and I'm using all of them. But I'm curious as to why you folks are making this change.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

I don't like using the granny and the 36T is too hard (cry)

I'm used to the 32 I use on my 29er I suppose. 

30 or 32 would do the trick. This fatbike is a lot of work on the legs compared to the 29er!


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## danny31292 (Jul 20, 2011)

pearsth said:


> FYI for those of you with bent derailleur hangers. They don't have any yet and hope to get them in and shipped this week for people who had an issue.


Is it me or are the these hangars ridiculously fragile? Never considering buying spars for my other bikes. It was too easy to bend this one back...


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

fripp said:


> I don't like using the granny and the 36T is too hard (cry)
> 
> I'm used to the 32 I use on my 29er I suppose.
> 
> 30 or 32 would do the trick. This fatbike is a lot of work on the legs compared to the 29er!


I changed to a 34t front at first thinkings its similar to my 29er but I made that switch to a 30T fast! I was practically in the 42 and 36 cog almost the entire time in this one area on the trail I take. That is no good!


----------



## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

I ran doubles and triples for a long time with standard gears and decided to try a single up front. When I got my last Speshy 29er I tried 1x10 with a 32t and have never looked back. Absolutely love the simplicity.


----------



## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Stoked. When they mentioned there were a few extra bikes on Facebook I went and refreshed the page. Got the 1 over stock 15.5" NTB in black. 
Ordered yesterday and it's due on Friday!


----------



## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

So much for a completely positive experience. Snapped the chain today at the beginning of my second ride (about 1 hour on bike total). Wouldn't have been so bad if I didn't drop the master link into the leaves and lose it forever. Once I broke then chain again and repaired it again, it didn't even last long enough to get back to the car. Walked out. I'll be emailing BD tomorrow to ask for reimbursement. I know it's technically KMC that failed, but this is way too soon.

Also, used a high pressure pump/gauge to check my fork today. *It was pretty low pressure, lower than the lowest (<140lbs) part of the chart on the fork.* So now i'ts much stiffer and not bottoming out. Speaking of which, what pressure are you guys running? Even at 10psi, these tires feel FIRM, much harder than other fat bike tires at similar pressure, from what I recall. I want to go lower, but wasn't in the experimenting mood after my 2-hour chain ordeal.


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## danny31292 (Jul 20, 2011)

AndrewZorn said:


> So much for a completely positive experience. Snapped the chain today at the beginning of my second ride (about 1 hour on bike total). Wouldn't have been so bad if I didn't drop the master link into the leaves and lost it forever. Once I broke then chain again and repaired it again, it didn't even last long enough to get back to the car. Walked out. I'll be emailing BD tomorrow to ask for reimbursement. I know it's technically KMC that failed, but this is way too soon.


Did you properly adjust the derailleur first? I seriously doubt the chain failed. Poor shifting technique and misaligned derailleurs are usually to blame.


----------



## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

It seemed good, shifting is smooth, no grinding or anything... I've never had a chain break before, and I've beat on some poorly set up drivetrains pretty hard. Seriously, 1 hour of use. I'd like to see someone _try_ to break a chain using only the pedals within one hour.

If you're referring to the chain failing again, I don't trust repaired chains. I just wanted it to hold out for more than a couple minutes so I didn't have to walk. Didn't happen.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Did you clean and grease the chain? The factory lube on most chains is really thick and crappy.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> Did you clean and grease the chain? The factory lube on most chains is really thick and crappy.


I did.

I don't see why this is so hard to believe, even the best stuff has a non-zero failure rate. I might be the unluckiest KMC owner in the world, but it had to be somebody.

I'll reiterate: one hour of riding. I could lube the chain with salt and honey and it would still last more than an hour on any bike.

I'll check the drivetrain again tomorrow... but this is still definitely a premature failure.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

OH I believe you - I had the exact same problem this spring on a brand new SRAM chain - broke on the first ride, but mine was due to chain suck and the factory lube on a really dusty trail.  I fixed the chain but I believe I stressed it too much and it broke again 3X in the next month. I trashed it and bought a Wipermann Connex and no issues since.


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## danny31292 (Jul 20, 2011)

AndrewZorn said:


> Speaking of which, what pressure are you guys running? Even at 10psi, these tires feel FIRM, much harder than other fat bike tires at similar pressure, from what I recall.


Swapping to lighter 2.7" q tubes (which drops 1.5lb) changed the tire feel a lot.


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## brulebike (Mar 25, 2009)

Just back in house from driving 2 miles thru 12 inches of snow from winter storm astro to meet the ups man and pick up my Night Train. The box looks in good shape after bouncing around in the local truck for the last 2 days. It was out for delivery monday but deliveries were snowed out yesterday. Not sure if all this snow is a good sign or not for a bike that I ordered just for that purpose.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

danny31292 said:


> Swapping to lighter 2.7" q tubes (which drops 1.5lb) changed the tire feel a lot.


I have heard a lot about these, but am not sure how I feel about reliability... I mean, unlike a frame, it's pretty easy to engineer and manufacture a thinner tube. Why wouldn't everyone do this?

But I am so concerned about the mess of sealant that I might just do that instead of going tubeless. Maybe soon, because like I said, these 10psi tires are really really firm. Got bucked off the bike today because the rear end bounced up. It might be an overstatement to say "I crashed because of the tires" but the rear end especially isn't as grippy as I think it could be.


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

Does the Sturgis/NT frameset come with Rear Rack Seatstay Braze-ons, like the Boris frameset?


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

nzxt said:


> Does the Sturgis/NT frameset come with Rear Rack Seatstay Braze-ons, like the Boris frameset?


I'm not looking at it now, but pretty sure not. I am going to get some rubber-coated p-clips.


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## coot271 (Sep 15, 2010)

RRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED Sturgis Bullet pics PLEEEEEZ!


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

Any more weights on these? Looking bullet with a bluto. XL. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

coot271 said:


> RRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED Sturgis Bullet pics PLEEEEEZ!


This X2! Waiting on my Red Sturgis Bullet. I can't wait to see the red finish in person after seeing the white and gunmetal pics.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Any decent cheap carbon bars/stems/seat posts out there? I got pretty beat up on the rocky trails the other day, I'm use to suspension.


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

so when someone mentioned that you need to use spacers on the front wheel axle, does that mean if you change a flat tire on the front wheel, and you lose the spacer, that you can no longer ride the bike.....???


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

siv said:


> Any decent cheap carbon bars/stems/seat posts out there? I got pretty beat up on the rocky trails the other day, I'm use to suspension.


E-Bay. I got XXX Bontrager seat post for $32 w/ shipping. I cannot tell the difference between it and the $200 Bontrager XXX on my other bike.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

nzxt said:


> so when someone mentioned that you need to use spacers on the front wheel axle, does that mean if you change a flat tire on the front wheel, and you lose the spacer, that you can no longer ride the bike.....???


Correct, that's why it kinda sucks.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

AndrewZorn said:


> I did.
> 
> I don't see why this is so hard to believe...
> ... I'll check the drivetrain again tomorrow... but this is still definitely a premature failure.


Your chain snapped, get over it. Consider it a lesson: I always travel with two quick links in my seat bag.
If nothing else you can help out some other poor sob who is stuck on the trail!


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

danny31292 said:


> Is it me or are the these hangars ridiculously fragile?


Finally! My NTB arrived today. First thing I noticed was a brake lever poking out through the shipping box. Seems to be no damage though. Second thing I noticed was my BENT Derailleur Hanger. Arghhhh. The mech was pushed into the spokes. I took pics and emailed them to BD. In the mean time I decide to put on a lighter rim strip, Q-Light Tube, and Bud. Oh looking good for about an hour. Tube lost air. Seam split. WTF I'm going to bed.


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## Traktor (Oct 18, 2004)

tfinator said:


> Your chain snapped, get over it. Consider it a lesson: I always travel with two quick links in my seat bag.
> If nothing else you can help out some other poor sob who is stuck on the trail!


Why two?


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

AndrewZorn said:


> I have heard a lot about these, but am not sure how I feel about reliability... I mean, unlike a frame, it's pretty easy to engineer and manufacture a thinner tube. Why wouldn't everyone do this?


Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've been riding the same q-tubes super light for 3 years and have never had a single flat.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Traktor said:


> Why two?


For the poor guy who broke his. And you still have one. Or if something crazy is going on with your drive train and you actually need that many.
Also they come in packs of six so why not?


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Tracking my NTB and it just departed Earth City Missouri! Stoked!!


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## tresrios (Nov 12, 2014)

red


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

I had first ordered the WR Green Sturgis rigid. I reluctantly traded the color for white to get the Bluto. Can someone post a picture of the green sturgis in the wild?


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

You guys think these are the same as the q tubes? XLC tubes.
One Pair of 26"X2 3 2 75" XLC Bicycle Tubes 48mm Presta Valve Bike Tubes New Q | eBay


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## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

Sharp!


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

Do bike seats break in or is it me? The first day I rode my Sturgis, I thought the stock seat had to go. Now it's not bothering me so I probably won't replace it. Right now I'm not concerned with reducing the weight of the bike.


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## coot271 (Sep 15, 2010)

tresrios said:


> red


YES!:thumbsup:


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

ETChipotle said:


> Do bike seats break in or is it me?


Yes.

With some exceptions (I've had saddles where the fact it didn't work for me was VERY evident within 5 miles). But otherwise - you're adapting to something different, and the seat is (usually) getting sat on for the first time, so it may change slightly as you get some miles on it.

Unless you have a Brooks, in which case it'll take a few hundred miles to break in


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Are you guys really saving weight with different rim strips other than stock? And where can you find em? I've searched and can't find anything but surly..


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

tfinator said:


> Your chain snapped, get over it. Consider it a lesson: I always travel with two quick links in my seat bag.
> If nothing else you can help out some other poor sob who is stuck on the trail!


I don't understand the "get over it" attitude... I was making conversation about something that happened to my bike, the bike we are all talking about here.

But yes, buying a few links (since I lost the ones from the chain I just broke).


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

AndrewZorn said:


> I don't understand the "get over it" attitude... I was making conversation about something that happened to my bike, the bike we are all talking about here.
> 
> But yes, buying a few links (since I lost the ones from the chain I just broke).


It's great having angry people that don't really help here ya know? If the questions annoy you then don't comment. As far as your chain I'd check the length, probably too many links plus it's a long cage deraileur. I'll go medium cage once this brakes or wears out.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

AndrewZorn said:


> I don't understand the "get over it" attitude... I was making conversation about something that happened to my bike, the bike we are all talking about here.
> 
> But yes, buying a few links (since I lost the ones from the chain I just broke).


Sorry, your op was super negative that you weren't satisfied with the bike, and as it turns out your broke a chain (I admit that sucks, but you should never go out without spare links) and that you pumped up the tires too high.

Seemed like a lot of user error.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

tfinator said:


> Sorry, your op was super negative that you weren't satisfied with the bike, and as it turns out your broke a chain (I admit that sucks, but you should never go out without spare links) and that you pumped up the tires too high.
> 
> Seemed like a lot of user error.


Just be nice bro, we're not roadies here ;-) And another thing, get a chain stay protector right away. My paint is already all dinged up under the top of the chain.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> I believe it will - that is not the narrow wide chainring, but the one with ramps. It should have the same 104mm bolt pattern as the old one... I may just pull my 32 T ring off of my 29er to test fit - the 29er will probably not see much use for a while with the new toy and winter. I have a Race Face crank with 22/32/bash ring on the 29er so I believe that is the same chainring as I linked to (or very close to same thing).


Any chance you tried this yet?


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

tfinator said:


> Sorry, your op was super negative that you weren't satisfied with the bike, and as it turns out your broke a chain (I admit that sucks, but you should never go out without spare links) and that you pumped up the tires too high.
> 
> Seemed like a lot of user error.


Original post just said that my initial period of honeymoon perfection had ended.

Tires are at 10psi and I hesitate to go lower because I don't think many others have, and I weigh 170lbs and ride on dirt trails. You have no indication that the broken chain was user error.

Thanks for assuming so much.



siv said:


> And another thing, get a chain stay protector right away. My paint is already all dinged up under the top of the chain.


Ugh, now I'm afraid to check mine. I saw it had one of the stickers on top, but should have known that wouldn't do anything. At least if I do get a protector, I won't see any damage underneath. It's just like the phone case / car bra paradox.

A couple pictures I took yesterday, rode on sand a little by a lake.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

New question for you veteran fat bikers-

I bought my bike for winter like everyone else, but I also wanted to use it year round for variety with my other 29er etc.

I rode 12 miles on my single track trails, which are pretty much like everyone elses, some rocks, lots of roots, log overs etc etc.

When I started, I had both wheels at 12 psi. Felt a little bouncy to me, much different than my 29er. So i lowered both wheels to 8 psi and although less bouncy, the rear still bounced more than I was used to. Plus, at 8psi I noticed the sluggishness of pedaling this badboy a lot more!

I had the bluto at 110psi and noticed from the sag ring (which i used for 20% sag initially), that i was going nowhere near the 120mm travel. The little ring barely made it up to the 3/4 mark, and i was hitting some decent spots. Anyway, I took air out of the bluto, setting it to 90psi and noticed a got closer to the limit of the travel but never bottomed out. The front also felt much less bouncy.

I guess the main questions i have are:

Did I prematurely lower the tire pressure too quickly before trying to alter the bluto pressure? I'm starting to wonder if we need to go so low with tire pressure when using the bluto. (at least on trail with no snow)?

Does the rear bounciness just not go away and I'm just not used to it? I felt like I was going to get tossed off the bike once in while. Not endo inducing, but thrown forwards a bit.

Thanks for any help!


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

AndrewZorn said:


> Tires are at 10psi and I hesitate to go lower because I don't think many others have.
> 
> You have no indication that the broken chain was user error.
> 
> Thanks for assuming so much.


I've run this exact setup down to 5 psi in snow - normal trail psi's (on a real 15 psi low pressure presta gauge) are around 9 rear and 8 psi front. If I know I'm just riding around town or going to be on buffed dirt paths, then maybe 12 psi at upper end - and I find even that to be harsh.

The rims strips weigh around 160g each - ditch em. Duck tape and clear packing tape to back up will save you over half a pound of rotational weight alone.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> I've run this exact setup down to 5 psi in snow - normal trail psi's (on a real 15 psi low pressure presta gauge) are around 9 rear and 8 psi front. If I know I'm just riding around town or going to be on buffed dirt paths, then maybe 12 psi at upper end - and I find even that to be harsh.
> 
> The rims strips weigh around 160g each - ditch em. Duck tape and clear packing tape to back up will save you over half a pound of rotational weight alone.


Thanks, I'll try 8/9 today. I got that cheap 15psi gauge from Amazon someone else suggested. Can't wait to go either lightweight tubes or tubeless... but getting in as much riding as possible before it gets cold, upgrades can wait!


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

Fripp. is your 29'er a hardtail or full squish? if so, certainly it will feel different..
continue to play around with pressure.. all I really do is pump it up to 13-14.. and let air out a bit until it feels good.. with the trails around here, I keep it about 10,,, once snow is around, down to 6 or so depending..

some say you may alter your peddling... more spinning not mashing.... I haven't tried out my sturgis yet so can't comment on the bluto or not.. but keep tweaking pressure....


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Bounciness in the rear is usually from too much pressure - I am running about 12 PSI in the rear (with a low pressure gauge) and 15 up front. You are correct in that the Bluto works best with more pressure than if the bike were setup rigid (or mine does and that is what I have read the general consensus is). I tried lower PSI but was getting a lot of self steer - I also weigh 240lbs, probably 255+ with my gear. I get a bit of bounce when pedaling but just need some practice with my cadence. 

Yeah I did my rim strips with just duct tape (two layers, sticky side to sticky side). Only downside is that if I have to remove it I will have to cut it off, but not that big of a deal - duct tape is cheap and I can always tape the seam back together.  As far as the Bluto and air - I set mine to 135PSI and the feel seemed right but I was only using 3/4 of the travel on fairly large drops/logs - but if I let air out it felt too loose and sloppy. I ordered some bottomless tokens to try and get it to ramp up more with less air.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Hardtail. Thanks for the tips!


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

I will try higher tire pressure at least in the front and see what happens with the sluginess. Perhaps its just me that needs to get used to a new rig too!


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Cool on the duct tape... so what exactly are you guys using? Just favorite color duct tape sticky side up then clear packing tape? Like the stuff the post office uses? With webbing.or no webbing? Or just clear duct tape?


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

skywardx said:


> This is 30T Im using...works great no dropped chains. I ordered the red bolts as well to accent the ring.
> 
> 104 BCD Chainrings ? wolftoothcomponents.com
> 
> Has a built in offset so the chain will clear the spider...highly recommend it. Gives you a chainline of about 76mm. But you will lose the 22 so if 1x10 is something your thinking of trying its a great option.


Is there a reason why the 22 has to go when this is used? Just curious, since the 22 is screwed into the spider right behind this ring, why does it have to go?

I'm going to guess that its a shifting issue?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

manchvegas said:


> Cool on the duct tape... so what exactly are you guys using? Just favorite color duct tape sticky side up then clear packing tape? Like the stuff the post office uses? With webbing.or no webbing? Or just clear duct tape?


I used this duct tape - found it at Wal-Mart, link provided so You can see what was used:

http://smile.amazon.com/Scotch-Duct...d=1415814302&sr=8-1&keywords=batman+duct+tape

For the backing I used standard duct tape in bright yellow, as I wanted the batman logo to stand out and was afraid if I used a dark color it could dull the color.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

It said in the specs that these bikes also come with red rim tape. For those of you that have received it, is this true?


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## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

bat bike


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

That is correct - my Sturgis Bullet came with black installed and red rim strips in the box.  Not using either - see above.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Yup, they give you a red set too. Nicer than the black ones in my opinion. (I changed tires so figured i might as well go red)


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

wildskycomet said:


> bat bike


Exactly. My other fat bike will be a Superman bike and I have the Superman Duct tape waiting to go on it- A quick photo hack using MS Paint of my Bucksaw build (shameless Bucksaw plug - still a couple months waiting to go on it):


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

I sort of asked this earlier in looking for different chain ring replacement for the Nighttrain 36 and keeping the granny... but if I was to go 1x, does anyone have any experience with a 30T chainring up front (with or without a 42 hack in the back)?

If not this bike, any other?

I feel like i got my ass kicked yesterday riding my new NTB, and was always looking for a lower gear but didn't want to switch down to granny.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I have been riding my 29er all summer only using the 32T ring to build muscle strength to get ready for my 1X10 setup on the Bucksaw w/ 30T. I am going to try tonight to see if my RF 32T ring from my 29er will swap onto the Sturgis Samox cranks without too much issue while keeping the 2x10 setup. I will report back tonight or tomorrow. My Wed night ride is cancelled due to rain (trails closed). The 36T is a bit much and I kept wishing the gearing was a bit lower so I wouldn't have to drop to the granny gear. Granny gear is too low most of the time and the 36T is too big most of the time, based on my 18 or so miles of trails this weekend.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> I have been riding my 29er all summer only using the 32T ring to build muscle strength to get ready for my 1X10 setup on the Bucksaw w/ 30T. I am going to try tonight to see if my RF 32T ring from my 29er will swap onto the Sturgis Samox cranks without too much issue while keeping the 2x10 setup. I will report back tonight or tomorrow. My Wed night ride is cancelled due to rain (trails closed). The 36T is a bit much and I kept wishing the gearing was a bit lower so I wouldn't have to drop to the granny gear. Granny gear is too low most of the time and the 36T is too big most of the time, based on my 18 or so miles of trails this weekend.


You da man! Thanks for following up - I agree with everything you said. With my 29'er i'm at 32 up front and 11-32 in back (9 speed) and I never really go into the 32 in the back (or very rarely). But with the NTB I walked a few hills and wondered if I was just gettin old!


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Same here - I walked a few hills then said screw it, I'm dumping to the granny next hill. Chugged up all of them but decided there has to be a better way. 

Then I did a dangerous thing - I started thinking what I could do with it. Stealing parts off a bike I probably will not ride again until spring seems like a viable option.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> Same here - I walked a few hills then said screw it, I'm dumping to the granny next hill. Chugged up all of them but decided there has to be a better way.
> 
> Then I did a dangerous thing - I started thinking what I could do with it. Stealing parts off a bike I probably will not ride again until spring seems like a viable option.


Yeah, once you open up a session on the Sheldon Brown Gear Ratio Calculator page, its game over for your wallet! I'd have many many options if it wasn't for just buying a brand new bike!!!!


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

fripp said:


> Yeah, once you open up a session on the Sheldon Brown Gear Ratio Calculator page, its game over for your wallet! I'd have many many options if it wasn't for just buying a brand new bike!!!!


You're not kidding there - the pile of parts for the Bucksaw build make the cost of the Sturgis look small, and that doesn't include the price of the frame. That and I just bought my son a Salsa Horsethief AND a Pugsley. This bike hobby ain't cheap. I am about $10K into bikes since July.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> You're not kidding there - the pile of parts for the Bucksaw build make the cost of the Sturgis look small, and that doesn't include the price of the frame. That and I just bought my son a Salsa Horsethief AND a Pugsley. This bike hobby ain't cheap. I am about $10K into bikes since July.


Any thought to leaving the 36T in front and adding the 42 add on in the back instead of going to a smaller chainring?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

fripp said:


> Any thought to leaving the 36T in front and adding the 42 add on in the back instead of going to a smaller chainring?


It is a thought but for now I think I will try the free mod and see where that takes me.  Not ruling out the wolftooth 42 option, but my bike budget is at zero per my wife until well into the next year (other than fixing broken things, I may "break" my cassette soon).


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

It is now the latest day that the BD order page indicated the bikes would ship. I am now transitioning from excitedly anxious to slightly annoyed that my bike hasn't shipped yet.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> It is a thought but for now I think I will try the free mod and see where that takes me.  Not ruling out the wolftooth 42 option, but my bike budget is at zero per my wife until well into the next year (other than fixing broken things, I may "break" my cassette soon).


Okay cool - again let me know - looks to me like it would work too from just looking at it. But you never know, could get some rub on the spider if not offset enough.

Sounds like your wife is pretty reasonable anyway. Just tell her its for your son's bike - can't say no to a healthy growing boy!


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

fripp said:


> Okay cool - again let me know - looks to me like it would work too from just looking at it. But you never know, could get some rub on the spider if not offset enough.
> 
> Sounds like your wife is pretty reasonable anyway. Just tell her its for your son's bike - can't say no to a healthy growing boy!


What about swapping the 22 out for say , a 28T (64bcd)? Any point or would that work?


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

don't know why all the hate against dropping down to granny ring... it is there for a reason folks.... if you plan on riding in snow,, whether unplowed streets, fresh powder or groomed trails, you are going to want some gears that you can spin in... too much torque in those situations. get you no where.... not bashing going 1x, tossing on a 42 in back,, if it works where you ride and works for your wallet great... but I am just suggesting that you wait and ride.. the conditions you will ride with current set up.. before you spend the time and money changing things out... just my opinion....


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

twright205 said:


> don't know why all the hate against dropping down to granny ring... it is there for a reason folks.... if you plan on riding in snow,, whether unplowed streets, fresh powder or groomed trails, you are going to want some gears that you can spin in... too much torque in those situations. get you no where.... not bashing going 1x, tossing on a 42 in back,, if it works where you ride and works for your wallet great... but I am just suggesting that you wait and ride.. the conditions you will ride with current set up.. before you spend the time and money changing things out... just my opinion....


I agree with keeping the granny if possible. I just really wanted to lose the 36 is all and make it a 32. I find 36 isn't easy enough, and riding in the 22 all the time seems weird. Yeah, the granny will come in useful in the snow, but I guess right now I am trying to solve the my non-snow trail problem. I thought maybe switching out for a higher granny (like a 28) and then keep it in that ring for most of my trail riding, including snow.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I'm also interested in swapping the 36 out for a 32 or even(gasp) a 30. It would be much simpler to stay in the 22t front ring for most things and then just shifting up to 30 or 32t up front when I start spinning out.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

beachbum1 said:


> I'm also interested in swapping the 36 out for a 32 or even(gasp) a 30. It would be much simpler to stay in the 22t front ring for most things and then just shifting up to 30 or 32t up front when I start spinning out.


Not sure you can get a 30T that isn't a 1x solution only.

I'd gladly like to say I'm wrong though and find a 30T ring to just replace the 36T with. If anyone knows of one, please yell it out!


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

NO hate for the granny gear really - I just am investing a lot of cash in my Bucksaw build and want to make sure I am ready for 1X10 w/ 30 up front before it gets here. It will be a three season bike and the Moto Sturgis will be a winter bike - 36 seems too steep - I have 32/22 and I like that combo (albeit only 9 spd) on my 29er hard tail. 
I have no plans to make the Sturgis a 1X rig - just want to get a gearing I will be happy with, and as I have a 22/32 on my other bike I can try, why not?


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

So is the general consensus that we MIGHT be able to switch out the 36 for something as low as 32 but still KEEP the granny (22)? And if we wanted to go to 30T, then its a one ring 1x only solution?


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

fripp said:


> Is there a reason why the 22 has to go when this is used? Just curious, since the 22 is screwed into the spider right behind this ring, why does it have to go?
> 
> I'm going to guess that its a shifting issue?


The wolftooth ring will NOT allow shifting with a front derailleur, Im not sure if any other NW brands will either. Some people still use a 22 with NW ring but stop and manually switch the chain by hand. The 30t with the offset might move the ring to much inboard and interfere with the chain.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

I love talking about chainrings as much as the next guy but who still doesn't have a bike shipped and has received zero input from BD. I'll start: ME!


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Also the 104 BCD standard was never intended to accept a 30T ring which is why they have it offset to clear the spider.


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

silvbullit said:


> I love talking about chainrings as much as the next guy but who still doesn't have a bike shipped and has received zero input from BD. I'll start: ME!


I got replies to all of my emails within a business day or less (about 6 emails), are you not having the same experience? or are you waiting for them to reach out to you?
Sorry if you said already, this is a loooong thread.
[email protected] - Karla is who replied to me.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

If you want a 2-ring set-up, the smallest 104BCD ring that can shift with a derailleur is 32T.

All of the narrow-wide rings (Race Face, Wolftooth, Pacenti, OnOne, SRAM X-Sync, etc..) WILL NOT SHIFT (with a derailleur). So don't try. You will break your chain trying to do this.

However, with a narrow-wide ring, you can effectively make this a "dinglespeed" (a double-singlespeed) where you keep the 22T granny ring as a bail-out gear, but by hopping off the bike and manually moving the chain off the narrow-wide ring and down to the 22T ring, you get the low gear. That way, you can get rid of the front shifter, derailleur, housing, etc. and save yourself the 3/4 of a pound and simplify the bar control setup. Please note that this "dinglespeed" approach will not work with a 30T NW ring. All 30T NW rings need a 2mm offset so that the chain can clear the spider. If you use the 22T ring, it will catch on the 30T ring's teeth, causing lots of unwanted problems.

Using any regular (i.e. 104 BCD) 32T (shifter) ring will be fine to replace the 36T ring that is stock. Depending on the ring brand, shifting performance may not be completely perfect as the rings are generally ramped/timed to work together as a "system" for smoother shifting. Keep in mind that on most 3-ring set-ups, the middle-ring is either a 32 or 34, so a 22-to-32 jump is very normal. What you're looking to do is effectively taking a normal 3x crankset and taking off the outer ring.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

skywardx said:


> The wolftoorh ring will NOT allow shifting with a front derailleur, Im not sure if any other NW brands will either. Some people still use a 22 with NW ring but stop and manually switch the chain by hand. The 30t with the offset might move the ring to much inboard and interfere with the chain.


That's what I figured. Thats the hole "chain stays on" part I suppose.

Again though, anyone know of a 30T ring that WILL allow normal shifting, or are we limited to 32?


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

fripp said:


> That's what I figured. Thats the hole "chain stays on" part I suppose.
> 
> Again though, anyone know of a 30T ring that WILL allow normal shifting, or are we limited to 32?


limited to 32


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

skywardx said:


> limited to 32


Know of a 32 that would work with this Samox crank then? (and allow for the 22 still).

I asked earlier but didn't get an definitive answer however one awesome guy said he'd investigate if his 29'er would work.

I just figured someone else might have already known which one would work from experience maybe

Thanks!


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Deleted


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

skywardx said:


> Truvativ Trushift 32T 104mm Steel Chainring Black | eBay


Just guessing that one, or you tried it?


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## Scow (Nov 5, 2014)

silvbullit said:


> I love talking about chainrings as much as the next guy but who still doesn't have a bike shipped and has received zero input from BD. I'll start: ME!


Still waiting on bike shipment for T bullet black Med., received one solicited email from BD saying it is stuck in customs.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Sorry that ones for a triple middle position


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

skywardx said:


> Sorry that ones for a triple middle position


Won't work?


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

fripp said:


> Won't work?


9 speed middle


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

skywardx said:


> 9 speed middle


Any idea of one that WILL work? Hate to keep harpin on ya, but you seem to know about this stuff better than me!


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

skywardx said:


> 9 speed middle


 8 speed, 9 speed, 10 speed - they all work on the front, do they not? I know for a fact that 9 and 10 speed fronts work fine on a 10 speed system. I am not 100% on 8 speed stuff but I would bet they work fine too. I also know it doesn't matter if it is a triple ring front setup "middle" ring - both my 2x9 setups were running 3x9 until I removed the outer gear and swapped on a bash ring. I am going to steal the middle ring from one tonight and try it on the Samox cranks. I am mostly worried about interference with the crank arms themselves NOT if it will fit on the spider.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Perfect Destr0 - will await your knowledge..... i also took my big ring off my 29'er ad bashed it up - so much better over logs.

But in this case it would fitted as the big ring, so not sure.


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

Anybody try a chain-guide like an ICG mounted MRP yet?

Just for reference I test fitted my BB mounted MRP G2 SL and because our cranks have a spacer it will not fit at all unless you maybe use it on the middle ring (assuming you can find a middle ring 30-36). Sorry, should have taken a pic but didn't.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

I believe a 2x10 FD will work with 9 speed stuff and shift pretty smoothly but you could get a little more chain wear. As I understand it, everything is a little narrower with 10 speed


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

neons97 said:


> If you want a 2-ring set-up, the smallest 104BCD ring that can shift with a derailleur is 32T.
> 
> All of the narrow-wide rings (Race Face, Wolftooth, Pacenti, OnOne, SRAM X-Sync, etc..) WILL NOT SHIFT (with a derailleur). So don't try. You will break your chain trying to do this.
> 
> ...


What do you think of this one suggested by a user here

Amazon.com : Truvativ Trueshift Chainring : Bike Chainrings And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors

Its a middle ring but I'd think should work.


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

tresrios said:


> red


wow! Beautiful. I thought my Orange Boris was nice...grats


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

What would you guys say is an acceptable tolerance for straightness of chainrings/crank? Maybe I'm kidding myself, but I think I can see it wobble from left to right when moving the pedals. As a test, I cross-chained it on purpose, and turning the cranks slowly, the sides of the chain always drag the derailleur cage at the same pedal positions. It happens with both chainrings so they are either both messed up or the spider/axle/?? is. I'm working on uploading a video, but does this sound like it's worth complaining about?

EDIT: the position that the inner chainring is closest to the inside is the opposite of the position when the outer chainring is closest to the outside. I feel like this means more than likely the imperfection is in the spindle/crank. But again, could be totally normal for a crankset of this quality... this really worries me.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Med silver nighttrain bullet.2 days past my date of shipment window.. very.annoyed


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

Onestep4me said:


> Second thing I noticed was my BENT Derailleur Hanger. Arghhhh. The mech was pushed into the spokes. I took pics and emailed them to BD.


Customer service at BD is fantastic!

They will send me out a new hanger when they are available. In the mean time I took the bike to my LBS to straighten out the hanger. BD is going to reimburse me.


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## bdjoh (Feb 12, 2008)

Received my 19" white Sturgis Bullet on Friday. Only problem was the front disk brake adaptor had a cross threaded hole and one the bolts holding the caliper wouldn't tighten. I just ordered a new adaptor from ebay. BD might of sent me one but thought it would be quicker to get it from ebay. Didn't cost much anyway. As for weight, the changes I made were carbon fiber handlebars and seat post, titanium rail saddle, and foam grips. I changed to the red rim strips included with the bike. The changes took off just under 1.5 pounds. After the changes the bike weighed 35.5 pounds (19" Sturgis bullet). That's weighed with an accurate digital scale. That means the bike weighed just under 37 pounds stock. That seems higher than some people are getting. Unless no one weighed their bike stock.


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## bdjoh (Feb 12, 2008)

Edited prior post.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

35.5 and 37 lbs right?


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

beachbum1 said:


> 35.5 and 37 lbs right?


kilograms maybe?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

AndrewZorn said:


> What would you guys say is an acceptable tolerance for straightness of chainrings/crank? Maybe I'm kidding myself, but I think I can see it wobble from left to right when moving the pedals. As a test, I cross-chained it on purpose, and turning the cranks slowly, the sides of the chain always drag the derailleur cage at the same pedal positions. It happens with both chainrings so they are either both messed up or the spider/axle/?? is. I'm working on uploading a video, but does this sound like it's worth complaining about?
> 
> EDIT: the position that the inner chainring is closest to the inside is the opposite of the position when the outer chainring is closest to the outside. I feel like this means more than likely the imperfection is in the spindle/crank. But again, could be totally normal for a crankset of this quality... this really worries me.


I've had a bent chainring before. This is likely your problem as the teeth will pry apart the plates on the chain.
Take off your chain rings and put them on a piece of glass. If they don't lie flat-that's your problem.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

tfinator said:


> I've had a bent chainring before. This is likely your problem as the teeth will pry apart the plates on the chain.
> Take off your chain rings and put them on a piece of glass. If they don't lie flat-that's your problem.


No chain ring is perfect really, I'm just wondering how bad is too bad. There's definitely not enough variation to stress out the chain here, I think... But the way the rings will grind oppositely really makes me think it's the spindle or something anyway. I wish I could ignore this stuff...


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Still waiting on my Medium Nigh train deep purple.
That red looks awesome!
Lets see more pictures of your new bikes!


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

manchvegas said:


> Med silver nighttrain bullet.2 days past my date of shipment window.. very.annoyed


Yes, thank you. Me too. I emailed hoping for some update.

I am scratching my head as to why there are so many issues with the gearing and chainlines? 22/36 in the front with that big 11-36 cluster is a perfect range. I guess this is a mental by-product of the 1x thing where people have to fret about that one lonely chainring out front cause if they screw it up they might be pushing. back in the day of triples you would only worry about chainrings if one was worn.

Three of my bikes are 9-speed with 11-34 cassettes and all are 2x up front with one being 24/36, one being 22/32, and one being 28/40 (goofy FSA 2x crank) with the first two running triple cranks without the outer chainring and no bash. I have zero complains with gearing or chainline on any of them and they often get used on the same trails. I love granny since it is steel in most cases so it never wears and gets me to use more of the gears on the cluster to keep the wear relatively even. But I live in the northeast and if I don't clean a technical uphill I turn around and try it again no matter even if I am riding the big travel bike.

The gearing seems great out-of-the-box to me unless the chainrings are both steel. In which case I would swap out the large ring for alu.

MTBR seems to be a fickle bunch that enjoys tinkering!


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## puggy32 (Nov 13, 2014)

Anyone get their Sturgis in orange or green? Would love to see some pix!


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

silvbullit said:


> ...MTBR seems to be a fickle bunch that enjoys tinkering!


Isn't it awesome? A thread all about your model of bike to help you should you want to change a part.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

bwilson said:


> Isn't it awesome? A thread all about your model of bike to help you should you want to change a part.


I love tinkering as much as I love riding. Great thread and great resource here.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Guys and Gals, I'm thinking of going 1X. I know a 30/42 chainring/cog setup is an option, but I'm wondering if I get a raceface Turbine cinch with a 26t up front whether I need to get a new bottom bracket or if just getting the cranks and the chainring will suffice?


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## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

silvbullit said:


> I love talking about chainrings as much as the next guy but who still doesn't have a bike shipped and has received zero input from BD. I'll start: ME!


I'm still waiting for my 17.5" black NTB. I sent a quick email early yesterday (wed 11/12), a few hours later I heard back from Karla. The important tidbits: "supposed to be in by Friday, hopefully". "delays in the port of CA".

Hang in there! Soon!


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

beachbum1 said:


> Guys and Gals, I'm thinking of going 1X. I know a 30/42 chainring/cog setup is an option, but I'm wondering if I get a raceface Turbine cinch with a 26t up front whether I need to get a new bottom bracket or if just getting the cranks and the chainring will suffice?


The RF cinch system requires a different bottom bracket. It also requires a different bottom bracket installlati on tool. And the direct mount ring requires a unique tool to install (old Isis bottom bracket tool) and not just Allen keys.

A cinch setup is costly as you need new crank, more expensive direc mount ring, unique bottom bracket, and two tools. The setup will run you about $390 at universal cycles before any discount codes. That's the cheapest I have found the setup.

A 30/42 combo is going to set you back about $110-120 online before discount codes.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Thanks for the reply. Bikeman.com has a combo crank+BB+ring for $269. I have a 1 by 10 setup with a 26t up front(self proclaimed wuss) with my other bike and I love it. If I could spend a little more(well ok double) and not have to worry about the potential shifting compromises if a giant cog....well... It's tempting.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

silvbullit said:


> Yes, thank you. Me too. I emailed hoping for some update.
> 
> I am scratching my head as to why there are so many issues with the gearing and chainlines? 22/36 in the front with that big 11-36 cluster is a perfect range. I guess this is a mental by-product of the 1x thing where people have to fret about that one lonely chainring out front cause if they screw it up they might be pushing. back in the day of triples you would only worry about chainrings if one was worn.
> 
> ...


Being careful not to assume that my opinion is the same as other people's - have you ridden the NTB with the 36/22? I'm a capable biker, and on my 29er i ride a bash/32/22 9 speed (11-32) and RARELY go into the 32/32 that would be my easiest combo without dropping into the granny. I'm usually a few gears up from that and even then can handle all the hills that my trails throw at me.

However, with the NTB 36/36 combo (easiest without using granny), some of those hills have become brutal climbs suddenly. Yeah, it could be many factors. The NTB is definitely heavier than my Kona hardtail. The fat bike tires, especially at lower pressures, are harder to get going. Could also be using a pedaling style that doesn't apply to fatbiking - need to learn.

All I know is I was not able to find a combination of gears that allowed me to find that "comfy spot" that i know so well. 36/36 was way too hard at times and the granny switch was way too easy at times.

I personally feel that a 2x 32/22 would have been the perfect setup for this bike. 36 isn't needed as most people wouldn't ride this bike at speeds that require a big 36.

So thats really where the chainring switch talk comes from. If you have ridden it and find its perfect, well, maybe I just need time as well. But if you haven't, see if the 36 is as cool as you feel it would be. On paper it sounds good, but fatbikes are a totally different thing I'm seeing. Fun as hell, but definitely an adjustment!


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

A


beachbum1 said:


> Thanks for the reply. Bikeman.com has a combo crank+BB+ring for $269. I have a 1 by 10 setup with a 26t up front(self proclaimed wuss) with my other bike and I love it. If I could spend a little more(well ok double) and not have to worry about the potential shifting compromises if a giant cog....well... It's tempting.


That's a good price. Thanks. About $20 less than universal after their 15% off coupon. Keep in mind you still need the special $30 tool for the bb and the Isis bb tool to mount the chainring.


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## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

Based on all notes, and similar thoughts, I'm planning on a 32. Relatively simple switch for 2x? I would have thought so until reading all other concerns. Thought there'd be a 32 option as a matter of course, no?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Just came back from an early morning maiden voyage on my NTB. All I can say is WOW. What a bike. 28 degrees with flurries and this thing just rips. Lots of fun and fully capable. Even though I'm coming from a pretty good hand built steel Kona Honzo, I still felt the quality of this bike. 

The bluto does wonders for the bike and I don't feel my body being beat up like I did on my previous Charge Cooker Maxi that I rode last winter. 

However, I'm not too impressed with the SRAM shifter and rear derailleur. It did not seem to switch gears as quickly and effortlessly as my XT setup on my Honzo. I am going to try some adjustments to see if I can get it to change gears better. These new guide brakes are legit. They seemed to work as well as my XT brakes, if not better, on a heavier bike. 

With respect to the gearing, I can see why some of you would like to go 1X. I was in the larger chainring in the front for the full 10 miles without ever coming close to needing to switch into the smaller chainring. I guess that would depend on your terrain however. 

All in all, I am super happy with this bike. If you are on the fence about getting one, do NOT hesitate. You will be extremely happy with it.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

That's a good point about just riding as I haven't even done that. I guess I was just thinking about how much I like the 1X simplicity of my other bike and since I'm probably going to do it at some point, I might as well do it now so I could sell the parts as New. Maybe I would get a couple of extra dollars. If course one could argue if I'm concerned about a few dollars why not just go 30/42. What can I say? I'm a walking contradiction.


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

Negotiator50 said:


> However, I'm not too impressed with the SRAM shifter and rear derailleur. It did not seem to switch gears as quickly and effortlessly as my XT setup on my Honzo.


Haven't used an XT shifter/derailluer setup, but have a 2x10 X7 setup on my 29er and have been very happy with it. My bet is if you make a few adjustments you'll end up liking it.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

OK so my RaceFace 32 tooth chainring went on without any issue.  Shifts just fine still on the bike stand. The bash guard will not fit (I didn't think it would without milling of the SAMOX crank spider).

Next time I hit the trails I will decide if it really helps or is just meh - if it is the latter I will put the 36 back on and learn to live with it. Not that it was bad, I was just thinking when riding it could be better. For singletrack where I live with the 32 up front I don't think I will need the granny gear up front unless there is snow/mud whatever.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

I ordered my NIght Train Bullet last night, with a Jan 30 to Feb ?? delivery and I can't wait. 

I am so stoked to ride the mud/snow/ and sand all year long. I already have a Reveb ready to put on it, but are their any other upgrades that people could recommend?


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> OK so my RaceFace 32 tooth chainring went on without any issue.  Shifts just fine still on the bike stand. The bash guard will not fit (I didn't think it would without milling of the SAMOX crank spider).
> 
> Next time I hit the trails I will decide if it really helps or is just meh - if it is the latter I will put the 36 back on and learn to live with it. Not that it was bad, I was just thinking when riding it could be better. For singletrack where I live with the 32 up front I don't think I will need the granny gear up front unless there is snow/mud whatever.


Were you able to put it on without taking off the crank? (I was able to switch a ring like this on another bike).

Which 32t raceface ring do you have that worked?

Thanks for following up - very helpful.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

You should be able to remove the 36t and install the 32t without removing the crank arms. If you want to relive the 22t, you will need to relive the cranks as it will not clear the spider to slip off overt he crank arms.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I did remove the cranks - I wan't sure if I would be able to get the 36 off or the 32 on AND I never pulled them before. Wanted to check them out. Came out nice and easy - added a thin layer of grease to the races and the spindle to crank arm interface. They were completely dry. 
No chance to hop on and even go for a short cruise last night. 
The chainring I had I believe it is this one- 
http://www.amazon.com/Race-Turbine-...&qid=1415894804&sr=8-6&keywords=race+face+32T


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> I did remove the cranks - I wan't sure if I would be able to get the 36 off or the 32 on AND I never pulled them before. Wanted to check them out. Came out nice and easy - added a thin layer of grease to the races and the spindle to crank arm interface. They were completely dry.
> No chance to hop on and even go for a short cruise last night.
> The chainring I had I believe it is this one-
> http://www.amazon.com/Race-Turbine-...&qid=1415894804&sr=8-6&keywords=race+face+32T


Thanks again for all the info and work - I bought a Truvativ one to check out and if it doesn't fit, I will use your RF example. Make sure to keep us update on the meh ride or sawwwwweeeet result of going to a 32 from the 36.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Dropped tire pressure to 8psi front and 9psi rear. Definitely feels smoother and grippier, but now I feel the self-steer. Combined with the increased pedaling effort, it has its downsides, but I'll keep it at this new pressure for dirt.

EDIT I made two videos of my chainring/crank unevenness. Listen...
Inner ring rubbing on inside of cage: 



Outer ring rubbing on outside of cage: 




I know this isn't realistic... that isn't the point. I'm using the chain to help visualize/demonstrate the crookedness that is difficult to see or show on camera. I purposely got the chain to barely clear the cage, so that at the point of crookedness, the chain would touch.

See how they scrape inner/outer at opposite pedal positions? That makes me think it's the crank or spindle (imagine the shape in your head), unless it's coincidence.

I would say overall it is about or less than 1mm of left-to-right variation. Is this acceptable/normal for cheap cranks? The cranks on my other bikes cost more and I don't think it is as bad on them. <1mm doesn't sound like much, but the chainrings are very tiny... scale that up to an untrue rim, and the variation would be huge.

Or maybe I'm just worrying WAAAAY too much.

Reminder again: I would never ride the bike in this configuration. The chain doesn't drag in the cage like this when I ride. It's for demonstration purposes.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> OK so my RaceFace 32 tooth chainring went on without any issue.  Shifts just fine still on the bike stand. The bash guard will not fit (I didn't think it would without milling of the SAMOX crank spider).
> 
> Next time I hit the trails I will decide if it really helps or is just meh - if it is the latter I will put the 36 back on and learn to live with it. Not that it was bad, I was just thinking when riding it could be better. For singletrack where I live with the 32 up front I don't think I will need the granny gear up front unless there is snow/mud whatever.


Just got back from another ride - a few things changed and were noted this time:

1) I put the tires back up to 10psi from the 8 they were - was easier to pedal for sure - less sluggish and didn't affect the ride from my perspective otherwise

2) I think compared to my 29er 20 inch, this 21 inch bike is higher off the ground and puts my legs in a more bent shape, which makes the quads burn. Thats been the big problem so far - just legs getting the **** kicked out of them like never before. Will have to re-examine the height of the seat.

3) Also noticed that the bud/lou combo i have on it are grippy as f*ck and probably don't help my entire tired legs problem either. I'm sure they will kick ass in the winter, but on this terrain they are overkill and slower. I found a guy selling a bunch of Husker Dus for $45 (new but 27tpi) on ebay - he still has some if anyone wants them. They will most likely be my trail tires. But man, the bud does NOT budge on corners and pretty much inspires huge confidence to turn as sharp as you like.

I still can see the need for the 32T ring over the 36T though and will most likely go ahead with it. It will come in handy for even steeper stuff eventually and give gear options I don't have now.


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

fripp said:


> I put the tires back up to 10psi from the 8 they were - was easier to pedal for sure - less sluggish and didn't affect the ride from my perspective otherwise
> 
> 3) Also noticed that the bud/lou combo i have on it are grippy as f*ck


I'm heading out tonight on my first ride on the NightTrain with Bud, Lou, & Bluto. Can't wait!

This is my first fat bike. I weigh 165 and based on what I've read here I am going to run Bud & Lou at 10 psi and Bluto at 105 psi to start.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Onestep4me said:


> I'm heading out tonight on my first ride on the NightTrain with Bud, Lou, & Bluto. Can't wait!
> 
> This is my first fat bike. I weigh 165 and based on what I've read here I am going to run Bud & Lou at 10 psi and Bluto at 105 psi to start.


I'd say thats a good place to start.

If it means anything, i originally had my bluto psi at 110 and lowered it to 90 during the ride because i wasn't using much of the travel. I weight 225, so I'd go even lower if i was you, maybe 75. Pull the little red ring down to the bottom and see how high it gets on the stanchion and you'll know if you need more or less air.


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

Maiden voyage - everything is good so far.


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## GaryBee (Jul 5, 2007)

I deleted the content as its the same as in the next post by silvbullit


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

To all those still anxiously awaiting their bike although I feel like I am the only one left without my bike but I will post this anyway. Hopefully I am only a few days away from riding a fatty!

From the BD Facebook page:
"Attention Sturgis and Night Train customers: 

The transportation company just told us that the container for the remaining bikes will be released from the railhead today at 5pm central time. 

We're hiring a trucker to pull the container to our warehouse as soon as they're allowed to pick it up. 
Unless something unexpected happens, we should be shipping these remaining
Sturgis and Night Train fat bikes from the first batch tomorrow. 
Be aware, anything can always happen. For example, last week, a truck with a container being delivered to our Jacksonville warehouse broke down on the way. They couldn't get it to us, and had to pull it to us the next day. 

Until the truck backs up at our docks, it's out of our control. 

But don't fret! We're doing everything we can to get these to your door as soon as physically possible!"


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

silvbullit said:


> To all those still anxiously awaiting their bike although I feel like I am the only one left without my bike but I will post this anyway. Hopefully I am only a few days away from riding a fatty!
> 
> From the BD Facebook page:
> "Attention Sturgis and Night Train customers:
> ...


As a positive comment on your waiting, from someone who was lucky to get one in the first batch, you will LOVE your bike. I can firmly say that it would have totally sucked to wait longer than I did, but it still would have been worth it. When you pull open that box and pull out your bike, you will forget all about the anxious crap UPS refresh button pushes you've gone through the last week!


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

Any of you first round Bullet recipients clydesdales? I'm 220 with an XL coming (in theory) and wondering where a good place to start for fork and tire pressures. sorry if this has already been discussed and I missed it. Not sure the lighter folks pressures are applicable.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

gurleyman said:


> Any of you first round Bullet recipients clydesdales? I'm 220 with an XL coming (in theory) and wondering where a good place to start for fork and tire pressures. sorry if this has already been discussed and I missed it. Not sure the lighter folks pressures are applicable.


I'm 6'5" 225lbs and on the XL - have the tires at 10psi front and back and the bluto at 90psi.

Took my gauges and shock pump with me and experimented during two long rides and ended up with these values. Seem to be pretty solid for now.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Tracking status: Arrived in Chelmsford, MA at 3pm today! Should have my NTB tomorrow if all goes well! : )

Update: 1-2 inches of snow expected overnight tonight!! :thumbsup:


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

fripp said:


> I'm 6'5" 225lbs and on the XL - have the tires at 10psi front and back and the bluto at 90psi.
> 
> Took my gauges and shock pump with me and experimented during two long rides and ended up with these values. Seem to be pretty solid for now.


Thanks fripp, that's good to know. I'm starting to feel like I owe you a beer now...:thumbsup:


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

Yup I definitely wore out the refresh button of my browser waiting on this thing. I will be so excited if I see a tracking number tomorrow. 

We are getting the same storm you are getting and the best forecast calls for 1-3" of snow here too! I am in Portland, Maine area so not far from ya NH.

Oh boy oh boy oh boy


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

Anyone weighed their stock BD alloy handlebar? I've got a cheap $80 wider carbon bar(220 grams) on the way and wondering how many grams I will save over the stock?

Stock bar
Handlebar	ALLOY 6061 RISE H/BAR ( 9° ) B/CENTER: 31.8mm.R/W:20/700mm. S.B BLK


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

gurleyman said:


> Thanks fripp, that's good to know. I'm starting to feel like I owe you a beer now...:thumbsup:


IPA 8% abv or higher is my drink!

Have fun out there...


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

gurleyman said:


> Any of you first round Bullet recipients clydesdales? I'm 220 with an XL coming (in theory) and wondering where a good place to start for fork and tire pressures. sorry if this has already been discussed and I missed it. Not sure the lighter folks pressures are applicable.


220 geared up on a medium. I pumped to about 125 psi on the fork, but needed to let some air out as it felt a bit stiff. I will try 105. Pumped wheels to about 12 or 13 for my first ride. Those felt good and I wasn't being tossed around like some other folks. I will try some other variations the next time I ride.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

hartzpad said:


> Anyone weighed their stock BD alloy handlebar? I've got a cheap $80 wider carbon bar(220 grams) on the way and wondering how many grams I will save over the stock?
> 
> Stock bar
> HandlebarALLOY 6061 RISE H/BAR ( 9° ) B/CENTER: 31.8mm.R/W:20/700mm. S.B BLK


the stock bar is 393g


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

has anyone upgraded the crank yet? To say a 100mm crank running 1x? does it clear and work ok? and what crank did you use?


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

drmayer said:


> the stock bar is 393g


Holy cow. That is heavy!!


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

What does the stock seatpost weigh? If I had my bike I could check but it's still in customs


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

manchvegas said:


> has anyone upgraded the crank yet? To say a 100mm crank running 1x? does it clear and work ok? and what crank did you use?


Threw on a X9 crank that I had on my pugsley, mainly to make use of a single direct mount chainring. It works fine, although you need a direct mount ring for a bb30 and not a gxp to get the correct chainline. It won't work as a 2x crank. The arms clear the chain stays as well, but not by much.


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## bdjoh (Feb 12, 2008)

hartzpad said:


> What does the stock seatpost weigh? If I had my bike I could check but it's still in customs


I took off the seat and seatpost together and they weighed 767 grams.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I just bought a raceface turbine cinch with a direct mount 26t. both the bike and the crank should hopefully come in next week. My plan is to install it before I go for the first ride so I'll let you know how it goes. Once I went 1X on my other bike, I had a hard time wrapping my brain around 2 shifters!


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

'The transportation company just told us that the container for the remaining bikes will be released from the railhead today at 5pm central time. 
We're hiring a trucker to pull the container to our warehouse as soon as they're allowed to pick it up.'



Woohoo! I'm ready! now I just need some free time and a little snow out west!


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

sorry for the trouble, this is the last request I promise. What does the stock stem weight? Obviously it is 10mm longer for each larger size of bike.

I just returned home from a business trip and found my new Race Face stem and forgot that I had ordered it.

I've already ordered $306 in upgrades for my bike that I don't have yet. In short, when my 17.5" Red Sturgis Bullet arrives sometime in the next future, I'm going to build it with:

Bars - replace stock bars with 3T Extendo Team Carbon 740mm bars ($80) - 220g, Net change- 173 grams dropped

Seatpost and seat - stock 767g - replace with Specialized Command Post Blacklite ($175) 543g + Specialized Henge Comp 252g ($20) - Net change +28g. Both bought used locally.

Stem 100mm - ???? - replace with Race Face Ride 70mm 140g ($26) - Net change ?????


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

The stars have finally aligned. It is snowing here in Dover, NH and my NTB arrived this morning at 3am at the UPS terminal for delivery today! Should be ready for some light snow riding later today....YES!!


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I am pushing clyde territory at 240# @ 6'3". I am running 135# in the Bluto - I don't have my fork too soft, but if I have small bump compliance I was burning through all the travel too quickly. 12PSI up front and 10PSI rear - but those may not be 100% accurate as I do not have a proper low PSI gauge yet (should be here any day).

I have some tokens ordered for the fork - the 120mm only has one token, with a couple more tokens I should be able to let some air out and not eat up all the travel on medium hits. At 135PSI I am using 75%+ of my travel on fairly mild XC rides with only a couple log crossings and 12" drops off roots. I want more progressive compression but softer at the start of travel...


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Seat is 386 and post is 376, no sure about stem.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

My frame bag fits the XL Sturgis well, even has room to still fit a water bottle in the downtube location, although it does bunch up the bag a bit.

Amazon.com : Ibera Bicycle Triangle Frame Bag : Sports & Outdoors

Not a bad bag for the price - has two pockets and a smaller interior zipper pouch for keys N such.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

has anyone weight the stock 2x samox crankset? Contemplating replacing with a turbine..


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

manchvegas said:


> has anyone weight the stock 2x samox crankset? Contemplating replacing with a turbine..


I pulled mine out when I did the 32T chainring swap the other day. They are a bit heavier than the RF Ride fat bike cranks I have sitting in a box. The RF are 170mm spaced or I would have been tempted to throw them in and order the turbines for my Bucksaw. Gotta resist spending more money on fat bikes!!! 
They do not feel overly heavy like the seat post though - the bars were fairly heavy too... I am sure you will save some weight but they are not complete boat anchors.  Some day I will get a scale...


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> OK so my RaceFace 32 tooth chainring went on without any issue.  Shifts just fine still on the bike stand. The bash guard will not fit (I didn't think it would without milling of the SAMOX crank spider).
> 
> Next time I hit the trails I will decide if it really helps or is just meh - if it is the latter I will put the 36 back on and learn to live with it. Not that it was bad, I was just thinking when riding it could be better. For singletrack where I live with the 32 up front I don't think I will need the granny gear up front unless there is snow/mud whatever.


The truvativ trushift 32 also went on mine without any problems. Shifting is perfect and after messing around on it, I really think the 32 is going to help out a lot with steeper stuff, and maybe in the snow.

If you are someone that grannies it up a lot already, don't worry about swapping out the 36 for the 32 - but if you are used to a 32 on another bike and got the NTB with a 36 and it seems tougher on steep climbs, then maybe this is for you


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

Got the Surlyl ICT rigid fork installed on my Sturgis Bullet today. 
Parts needed: Reducing crown race adapter from FSA, 180mm IS brake adapter and a new star nut for the steerer. 

Everything went together well, going for a ride this afternoon to see how it handles.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

drmayer said:


> Got the Surlyl ICT rigid fork installed on my Sturgis Bullet today.
> Parts needed: Reducing crown race adapter from FSA, 180mm IS brake adapter and a new star nut for the steerer.
> 
> Everything went together well, going for a ride this afternoon to see how it handles.


Good to know! I have yet to decide what I am going to do with my Sturgis Bullet once my Bucksaw frame arrives - get a rigid fork alloy ICT fork, a carbon fork (if someone makes one in 150mm TA by then) or just buy a second Bluto...

Leaning towards the ICT fork right now as a cheap and effective option, although I will admit I am really digging this bike with the Bluto.


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## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

Destr0 said:


> Good to know! I have yet to decide what I am going to do with my Sturgis Bullet once my Bucksaw frame arrives
> 
> Might have missed it... you post a picture?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

wildskycomet said:


> Destr0 said:
> 
> 
> > Good to know! I have yet to decide what I am going to do with my Sturgis Bullet once my Bucksaw frame arrives
> ...


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> I pulled mine out when I did the 32T chainring swap the other day. They are a bit heavier than the RF Ride fat bike cranks I have sitting in a box. The RF are 170mm spaced or I would have been tempted to throw them in and order the turbines for my Bucksaw. Gotta resist spending more money on fat bikes!!!
> They do not feel overly heavy like the seat post though - the bars were fairly heavy too... I am sure you will save some weight but they are not complete boat anchors.  Some day I will get a scale...


Your fat addicted!


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## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

Sturgis. I thought you had or miht have, but couldn't find it. Buddy waiting for his.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

OK. Time for my fellow non-bullet owners (..to be?) to play a game. Count how many times you hit refresh on the UPS tacking page today and post up the tally tonight. I would say we should make this a drinking game, but that would make my liver hurt.


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

car_nut said:


> OK. Time for my fellow non-bullet owners (..to be?) to play a game. Count how many times you hit refresh on the UPS tacking page today and post up the tally tonight. I would say we should make this a drinking game, but that would make my liver hurt.


Pretty sure I've already exceeded an unsafe number...


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

fripp said:


> The truvativ trushift 32 also went on mine without any problems. Shifting is perfect and after messing around on it, I really think the 32 is going to help out a lot with steeper stuff, and maybe in the snow.
> 
> If you are someone that grannies it up a lot already, don't worry about swapping out the 36 for the 32 - but if you are used to a 32 on another bike and got the NTB with a 36 and it seems tougher on steep climbs, then maybe this is for you


Great...glad it worked for ya...thanks for the feedback


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

well...my UPS number still has no movement....frustrating.


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## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

Good news: The 10,523rd refresh of my UPS tracking number FINALLY reported that my 17.5" Black NTB has been picked up by UPS. Estimated delivery to Northern NJ is Wednesday by the end of the day!


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Wooohoooo!!!! Thursday scheduled delivery for my 19" Purple NT!!


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## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

Jealous... There'll be a couple fatties on tomorrow's epic. They are just going to eat up some of those tougher sections


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

My 17.5" NT purple just showed movement now too. Thursday to Niagara Falls. Then drive over the border on Friday tonpick it up!


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## Scow (Nov 5, 2014)

Shipping Shipping!!
NT Bullet, black, med. will be coming home by way of big brown next Weds.


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## GaryBee (Jul 5, 2007)

My bike showed no movement 30 min ago, but I just checked again and its on its way!! Delivery on Thurs


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Just received a black NTB bullet size small. Will update you guys throughout the evening


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

hartzpad said:


> well...my UPS number still has no movement....frustrating.


My order just went active, delivery Wednesday. I knew that complaining about it repeatedly would make something happen


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

drmayer said:


> Got the Surlyl ICT rigid fork installed on my Sturgis Bullet today.
> Parts needed: Reducing crown race adapter from FSA, 180mm IS brake adapter and a new star nut for the steerer.
> 
> Everything went together well, going for a ride this afternoon to see how it handles.


Curious...why did you drop the BLUTO? Pics please.


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> I am pushing clyde territory at 240# @ 6'3". I am running 135# in the Bluto - I don't have my fork too soft, but if I have small bump compliance I was burning through all the travel too quickly. 12PSI up front and 10PSI rear - but those may not be 100% accurate as I do not have a proper low PSI gauge yet (should be here any day).
> 
> I have some tokens ordered for the fork - the 120mm only has one token, with a couple more tokens I should be able to let some air out and not eat up all the travel on medium hits. At 135PSI I am using 75%+ of my travel on fairly mild XC rides with only a couple log crossings and 12" drops off roots. I want more progressive compression but softer at the start of travel...


Good info, thanks


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

My shipment went active as well. Will have during the AM on Monday....


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Well took delivery today on my silver NTB! One of the first things I noticed was a bent dérailleur hanger, I mean the X9 was into the spokes. Removed it, the wheel and took the hanger over to the vice along with a crescent wrench. Got it about 1/2 way to straight and heard the dreaded CRACK!...Arggggh. Immediately called BD and luckily they had em and will be shipping. In the meantime I have all my parts installed and the bike is sweet...just not rideable! : (. :madman:


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Mine shows shipping! Yeah!! Purple Night Train 17.5". I asked for an upgrade to Bluto so I wonder what's on the way. They showed that they were out when I ordered it and sent an email requesting the Bluto.
Now it will be like Christmas because I won't know what I'm getting till I open it up!
I've got takeoffs from other bikes which I'll put on to lighten things up a bit and will then go Tubeless after a few rides. They include a seat, post and bars and plan on changing the stem to a 58MM.
Will I hurt the snow tires riding on trails till I pull the trigger on tires? 
Just curious how much abuse they can take.
Congratulations to evreyone's that are on the truck!


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

NH Mtbiker said:


> In the meantime I have all my parts installed and the bike is sweet...just not rideable! : (. :madman:


 That's rough. Did they happen to mention what number hanger it takes? Seems to be lots of people in your situation.


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## 13eard (Oct 3, 2014)




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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

watermonkey said:


> Curious...why did you drop the BLUTO? Pics please.


Dropped the bluto for winter use. No need for it in the snow where I ride. I'll put the bluto back on in the summer.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

double post.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Size small black night train bullet weighs 35.14 pounds.
This is sans pedals, reflectors, dork disc.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

By the way. The hub end caps everyone is freaking out about snap onto the hub. They don't come off easily so taking my wheels off/ on/off/on/etc hasn't been any different than a normal bike


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

*How does the sizing look on the small NTB?*

Curious as to what the sizing/geometry looks like on the 15.5" NTB. Pictures possible? Great to see these finally coming in!



tfinator said:


> By the way. The hub end caps everyone is freaking out about snap onto the hub. They don't come off easily so taking my wheels off/ on/off/on/etc hasn't been any different than a normal bike


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Higgins17 said:


> Curious as to what the sizing/geometry looks like on the 15.5" NTB. Pictures possible? Great to see these finally coming in!


I'm going to post photos tomorrow at some point


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## omnivore (Nov 29, 2013)

ABout to pull the trigger. We just got our first decent snowfall. I think a Sturgis Bullet in small for me. Will there be alot less standover room on the Surgis than the small Lurch? I have a short 29" inseam, this is why I ask.

Also, were you able to get the ridgid fork included with the Bluto equipped bike?


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## HydroManEd (Aug 15, 2014)

Sturgis Bullet due in Thursday I will post pictures.


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## 13eard (Oct 3, 2014)

my weight loss


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

How do those qtube 2.4-2.7 hold up before you went split tube and then tubeless? I'd like to get some weight savings in the wheels by getting lighter tubes but I can't believe the qtubes would hold up with my bud and Lou as they are huge. Thoughts?


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

13eard said:


> my weight loss


That's a great table that we can all use to know what weight savings can occur and where. Except for maybe going to 1X, I now know what weight i'll shave as I'm going to swap out many of the same parts. 
Hopefully I can swing by my LBS to put it on a hook out of the box for a starting weight and then i'll start swapping things out.
Thanks for the chart 13eard!
+1 on the Superlite reliability question. I may not go tubeless immediately.


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

Pumpkin, size medium















I swapped out; the handlebar and saved 7oz, the seat post saved 4oz, removed the rim strips (11oz) and replaced with 2 wraps of duct tape. Q-Tubes Super Light tubes saved another 27oz. Then I gained weight by putting on Bud & Lou, Fyxation pedals, and a water bottle cage.

Total weight via bathroom scale 33lbs

Total ride happiness... un-measurable!!


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

fripp said:


> How do those qtube 2.4-2.7 hold up <snip> I can't believe the qtubes would hold up with my bud and Lou as they are huge. Thoughts?


I put Q-tube Super Light's in my Bud & Lou's. Both tubes failed, split at the seam. I'm now trying Bontrager 2.5 / 2.8 regular tubes. They weigh 2.5oz more per tube but I'm hoping they are more durable.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Onestep4me said:


> I put Q-tube Super Light's in my Bud & Lou's. Both tubes failed, split at the seam. I'm now trying Bontrager 2.5 / 2.8 regular tubes. They weigh 2.5oz more per tube but I'm hoping they are more durable.


Let us know how those work. I figured the SL would split. Those bud and Lou's are just too big!


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## Miracle Man (Nov 15, 2014)

I changed the usual suspects: seat post, saddle,stem&Bar/grips. Purely a personal preference. I have been riding it everywhere that I ride my other mt. Bikes, but I am looking forward to the snow more than I had in the past! As far as ship date, I ordered the bike in early Sept. & their E-mail confirmation said that it was expected to be in their warehouse in Texas between Oct.28&Nov.10. I got a notice that it shipped to me 11/5 & tracked on UPS site to be delivered on Mon 11/11. It was!


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Anyone have an opinion in these Michelin DH tubes? Supposed to be tough and 388 g compared to the stock bee tubes. Anyone know what vee tubes weigh? I had read 450 but must be more...

Michelin Aircomp Competition Downhill Racing 26 x 2.2-


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

450 grams is approx 16oz. My stock tubes weighed in at 21.5 oz, my spare tube is a SunLite 4.0 (vee rubber) and is 16oz


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Figured what I read was wrong. So more like 610 grams. Easy to drop weight if you can find tubes that work with big tires. Anyone have a tube that always has worked with their 4.8 inch tires with no split seams etc?


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

Can anyone recommend a frame bag that will fit a Sturgis/Nightrain in size M 17.5"?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Mah new baby. Gotta run out for a bit but wanted to post a pic and a quick summary.

Super nice bike. Need a different stem to take some spacers out and might switch bars to my Salsa Bend Bars.

FYI...I didn't purposely match the color scheme. Just had the parts around. I originally ordered a 15.5" Matte Black.

Standover is MINIMAL for my 29" inseam but once on the bike the reach etc feels perfect.

Everything went together pretty easily. Needs a bit more dialing in but good enough for a test ride around the block. Might be able to hit some dirt tomorrow.

EDIT: I was not able to get my Jones H-bar on the bike as there wasn't enough brake cable to not have a too severe angle for the brake levers.


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

*NT Bullet 19" Ready for action*

All lubed and ready to go. Went together OK. Set brake discs to correct torque. Only upgrade is Brooke's black saddle. Added XPEDO XMX24MC MTB Pedals and completed with Porta Pack. Quick ride to make sure comfortable fit. Need a few more tweaks but will refine on trail tomorrow.









Wahoooooooo!


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Just got some q-tube 2.4-2.75 non SL, see how they work with the stock tires. They also make an EXTREME version which has 1.3mm thickness that weighs about 380g. Also, my seatpost broke today while changing seats. What a POS, Id recommend replacing that ASAP, I'm still gonna ask for a new one though.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

siv said:


> Just got some q-tube 2.4-2.75 non SL, see how they work with the stock tires. They also make an EXTREME version which has 1.3mm thickness that weighs about 380g. Also, my seatpost broke today while changing seats. What a POS, Id recommend replacing that ASAP, I'm still gonna ask for a new one though.


My drive side crank threads gave way on me today. Been in two ride but this one was just in my backyard. Was messing around trying to wheelie and the pedal just came out. Can see the threads were all coming apart, little rings of metal falling off. Wtf. Pedal was put on super tight with a pedal wrench and this crap shouldn't happen. Cheap ass samox pos crank!


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

fripp said:


> My drive side crank threads gave way on me today. Been in two ride but this one was just in my backyard. Was messing around trying to wheelie and the pedal just came out. Can see the threads were all coming apart, little rings of metal falling off. Wtf. Pedal was put on super tight with a pedal wrench and this crap shouldn't happen. Cheap ass samox pos crank!


so here is another question - who has successfully replaced their crank with no issues and what did you use? What are ALL the parts you need to do this for the ntb?


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

W


fripp said:


> Pedal was put on super tight with a pedal wrench and this crap shouldn't happen.


This is probably the problem. These Samox cranks don't have a steel pedal thread insert. Proper torque is critical. "Super tight" = stripped threads.

you may be able to helicoil to fix. Not sure how BD is going to respond since improper torque isn't generally a warrantable damage.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Actually I just meant super tight so people didnt think they were loose to start with. I didnt overtightened at all - I know better. They were good for 2 six mile rides before this happened too.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

hartzpad said:


> Can anyone recommend a frame bag that will fit a Sturgis/Nightrain in size M 17.5"?


Try a search for Jandd frame pack large...looks good!


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Anyone have an issue with the SRAM rear shifter? For some reason, when I shift into a larger cog, the paddle doesn't return to its original position and seems loose. After a few seconds or when I push it back into its original position, it returns to normal only to exhibit the same problem when I shift again. Any ideas on what the issue is and how to fix it?


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Negotiator50 said:


> Anyone have an issue with the SRAM rear shifter? For some reason, when I shift into a larger cog, the paddle doesn't return to its original position and seems loose. After a few seconds or when I push it back into its original position, it returns to normal only to exhibit the same problem when I shift again. Any ideas on what the issue is and how to fix it?


Noticed that very seldom but thought its from cold. I'll keep it in mind when I ride tmw.


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

fripp said:


> so here is another question - who has successfully replaced their crank with no issues and what did you use? What are ALL the parts you need to do this for the ntb?


I replaced my crank with a SRAM X9 fat bike crank. You'll need to use the GXP BB that comes with the crank. One caveat with this crank is that you won't be able to run 2x in the front, only 1x.

Tools needed would be a few sizes of allen wrenches and a bottom bracket tool to remove the stock bb and add the new one.


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## LosLinks (Nov 16, 2014)

*Ready for our 1st snow in the Cincy area!*

White sturgis with a little red trim


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Tonggi said:


> Noticed that very seldom but thought its from cold. I'll keep it in mind when I ride tmw.


It happens often for me and it happens even while my bike is inside while I work on it so I don't think the cold has anything to do with it. Please pay attention to it while you ride. I might send an email to BD to see if they have any ideas.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

drmayer said:


> I replaced my crank with a SRAM X9 fat bike crank. You'll need to use the GXP BB that comes with the crank.  One caveat with this crank is that you won't be able to run 2x in the front, only 1x.
> 
> Tools needed would be a few sizes of allen wrenches and a bottom bracket tool to remove the stock bb and add the new one.


I ended up grabbing the Raceface Turbine Fatbike crank for 190mm rear spacing. Comes with the BB and spacers and everything you need. Not sure I trust this Samox one anymore, although could have been a fluke I suppose. Up until the pedal came flying off when I mashed it pretty hard, I had no issues with the crank it came with and wasn't going to replace it.

Not sure what BD will do - send me another crank, reimburse me somehow for a portion of my new one etc...

Anyone who has taken off the Samox know if the drive side are is replaceable, or do you have to replace the whole crank to get a new drive arm?

Thanks


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Damn, I love this bike. I swapped to a 4.0 Nate up front and what a difference it makes. Totally linear steering. I had to step out of my first turn after swapping, having semi adjusted to the pull of the snowshoe. 

I took it I out to the jump spot today to hit some tables and gaps. With this tire combo, and a short stem/wide bars, I had no trouble clearing the jumps, and love the stability and forgiveness of the fat tires. I might like jumping it better than my AM hardtail. 

One of the reviews mentioned being able to ride up stairs, so I tried it today, and I'll be darned if it didn't work. Now, there is a limit in how steep/tall you can go, but within reason... Nice little wrinkle to add to urban rides. 

I've got a friend looking to buy one now, too. The more, the merrier, I say.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

livewr06 said:


> Mine shows shipping! Yeah!! Purple Night Train 17.5". I asked for an upgrade to Bluto so I wonder what's on the way. They showed that they were out when I ordered it and sent an email requesting the Bluto.
> Now it will be like Christmas because I won't know what I'm getting till I open it up!
> I've got takeoffs from other bikes which I'll put on to lighten things up a bit and will then go Tubeless after a few rides. They include a seat, post and bars and plan on changing the stem to a 58MM.
> Will I hurt the snow tires riding on trails till I pull the trigger on tires?
> ...


I asked for this same deal because I love that midnight purple. They didn't even mention that it was an option, so I just ordered a white Sturgis. Let us know if your upgrade works out.

-F


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Almost forgot my photo. Set it up tubeless with caution tape rim strips. Will weigh tomorrow for weight saved over stock.


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

Looks good. Did you have to cut down your seat post?



tfinator said:


> Almost forgot my photo. Set it up tubeless with caution tape rim strips. Will weigh tomorrow for weight saved over stock.


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

fripp said:


> My drive side crank threads gave way on me today. Been in two ride but this one was just in my backyard. Was messing around trying to wheelie and the pedal just came out. Can see the threads were all coming apart, little rings of metal falling off. Wtf. Pedal was put on super tight with a pedal wrench and this crap shouldn't happen. Cheap ass samox pos crank!


Hoping that its just that you are a friggin beast and can squat 600lbs and this is not something we will see allot of. I was eyeballing the RaceFace stuff


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

fripp said:


> I ended up grabbing the Raceface Turbine Fatbike crank for 190mm rear spacing. Comes with the BB and spacers and everything you need. Not sure I trust this Samox one anymore, although could have been a fluke I suppose. Up until the pedal came flying off when I mashed it pretty hard, I had no issues with the crank it came with and wasn't going to replace it.
> 
> Not sure what BD will do - send me another crank, reimburse me somehow for a portion of my new one etc...
> 
> ...


seems BD owes you a crank, will be interesting to see what they do there. Let us know how that race face works out. I was looking to replace mine....and the RF was number one on my radar


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

Here are a few more pics of my Sturgis with ICT fork. Weighs 33.5lb as it sits.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

gurleyman said:


> seems BD owes you a crank, will be interesting to see what they do there. Let us know how that race face works out. I was looking to replace mine....and the RF was number one on my radar


Yeah, Treefort Bikes has the whole RF package for 169 shipped., which looked like a decent price to me. Comes with the crank, BB, spacers etc.

And, although I'm sure I'm strong, I'm not sure if I am a beast. My XT crank on my 29er doesn't budge and i've put some serious torque on that SOB. This one just appears to have been a factory defect perhaps, or maybe just cheap.

In case anyone cares, I'm using Straitline platform flats and they were tightened the 'right' amount - this isn't the first bike I have owned. I did nothing different than any other times with other bikes. The pedal just came out is all.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

fripp said:


> Yeah, Treefort Bikes has the whole RF package for 169 shipped., which looked like a decent price to me. Comes with the crank, BB, spacers etc.


Link?

EDIT: Found the link but they are backordered on the black for 190mm rear spacing.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

OnThaCouch said:


> Link?
> 
> EDIT: Found the link but they are backordered on the black for 190mm rear spacing.


Yeah I wanted the red one to spice it up a bit. I saw the same stuff on eBay for similar prices too. Search for raceface crank 190 or things like that.

Race Face Turbine CINCH Fatbike Crankarms 175mm for 190mm Rear at Tree Fort Bikes


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

fripp said:


> My drive side crank threads gave way on me today. Been in two ride but this one was just in my backyard. Was messing around trying to wheelie and the pedal just came out. Can see the threads were all coming apart, little rings of metal falling off. Wtf. Pedal was put on super tight with a pedal wrench and this crap shouldn't happen. Cheap ass samox pos crank!


I'm currently talking to BikesDirect because my Samox crank is bent. I posted videos earlier (with no replies) but after a lot of analysis figured out it isn't just the chainrings... the spindle or something is bent bad enough to give a visible left-to-right wobble of the chainrings. It's small, but seeing as how my road bikes have a much larger ring that should show more deflection, yet don't, I think it's not acceptable for a brand new part. Just thought I would mention this because I am apparently not the only one to have issues with the cranks. Mine was either manufactured poorly or damaged in shipping, but still.


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

fripp said:


> Yeah, Treefort Bikes has the whole RF package for 169 shipped., which looked like a decent price to me. Comes with the crank, BB, spacers etc..


Sucks your having problems but this is an opportunity to FINALLY find out the weight of the Samox crankset. Would you be able / willing to post that info?


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

Samox Crank with spacers: 835g
BB: 159g


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

AndrewZorn said:


> I'm currently talking to BikesDirect because my Samox crank is bent. I posted videos earlier (with no replies) but after a lot of analysis figured out it isn't just the chainrings... the spindle or something is bent bad enough to give a visible left-to-right wobble of the chainrings. It's small, but seeing as how my road bikes have a much larger ring that should show more deflection, yet don't, I think it's not acceptable for a brand new part. Just thought I would mention this because I am apparently not the only one to have issues with the cranks. Mine was either manufactured poorly or damaged in shipping, but still.


Let us know what they say and I will do the same. I figure they will probably want to send me a new part but a reimbursement would be better since I'm dumping the samox.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

Got the Sturgis out for a 12 mile shake down ride, being close to 50,, looks like I will be shopping for a riser bar. rode it stock with flat pedals.. I was wary with all the negative talk on the tires.. I was out on my Pug with on one floaters yesterday .. same area.. and I am pleased to say, I am currently happy with these stock tires. conditions were not packed trails.. that is where the real info will be,, just had 3 inches of crisp snow. frozen and then thawing singletrack, and some shore line with baseball size rocks.. even into the water where the rocks were a bit slimy.

it's a large.. I am betting 36lbs. with replacing the liners, going with light tubes, seatpost, saddle and handlebar change you ought to be able to drop 3lbs... probably if tubeless maybe another pound...

bluto behaved well,, might need to look into those tokens...

brakes worked fine, may or may not replace.. shifting was great, I did pull the bottom bracket and greased it up, there was grease there....

will toss up link to youtube of ride if I get the chance..


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

fripp said:


> Let us know what they say and I will do the same. I figure they will probably want to send me a new part but a reimbursement would be better since I'm dumping the samox.


I feel the same way. I'm going to wait and see what they say concerning my problem, then ask for reimbursement myself. I'd rather just pay to upgrade.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

bennybullfrog said:


> Looks good. Did you have to cut down your seat post?


No.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

probably way too long of a video and it's only point of view... but it's the Sturgis Bullet romping around.. it's opening weekend of deer season in WNY.. so that is why I am sticking to a State Park with no hunting... hope to try the tires on packed trails in a few weeks.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Finally got to get the bike out for a few minutes today on road and dirt path near my house. Rolls pretty well. 

Waiting until I get my Bud/Lou on Mulefut wheelset setup tubeless before I can get it out in some real dirt. Need to track down a compressor to inflate the tires. I tried my neighbors but it didn't have the right fitting to get air in quickly enough. The stock wheels will become a commuter set outfitted with Black Floyds.

Did find out that my rear der. hanger was bent though. Shifting was a little funky and tried dialing it out but no dice. Took a closer look from the back and it was bent. Emailed BD to see what they say.


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## Todd Choti (Nov 17, 2014)

Love this thing, rides better than I expected.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

Looks really good. Out of curiosity, how tall are you? How is the fit? The geometry is right between two bikes I have. Thanks!



tfinator said:


> Almost forgot my photo. Set it up tubeless with caution tape rim strips. Will weigh tomorrow for weight saved over stock.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Higgins17 said:


> Looks really good. Out of curiosity, how tall are you? How is the fit? The geometry is right between two bikes I have. Thanks!


I am 5'7". I ride a 50cm road and cross bike with short stems and pretty good saddle to bar drops. Yet my MTB is a medium ibis tranny with a 110mm stem. The geometry is basically spot on for the ibis, and this is a MTB, so I went with the small.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

FYI all- I'll post in tubeless Tuesday, but I did my wheels with caution tape, clear packing tape, pipe insulating foam, window/ door sealant, and cling wrap and dropped 415g from the rim strip/ tube set up. Front has been holding 7 psi 12 hours, rear has been holding 25 psi for 12 without sealant yet applied. Will update with final weight this week as I am getting lighter stem, bar, seat post, and saddle of my choosing.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

tfinator said:


> FYI all- I'll post in tubeless Tuesday, but I did my wheels with caution tape, clear packing tape, pipe insulating foam, window/ door sealant, and cling wrap and dropped 415g from the rim strip/ tube set up. Front has been holding 7 psi 12 hours, rear has been holding 25 psi for 12 without sealant yet applied. Will update with final weight this week as I am getting lighter stem, bar, seat post, and saddle of my choosing.


It is like a Bob Villa and Martha Stewart orgy in your tubeless setup. I have seen the foam trick before to keep the bead in place but what is the cling wrap for?


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

*Sizing - Small vs Medium*

That's comforting to know. I am also 5'7". The small is at the lower end for what I have ridden in the past and the medium is almost spot on to my current stumpjumper (which I wish was just a touch smaller). I just can't decide if I want to err toward having a larger frame and shorter stem or a shorter stem on a larger frame - especially on a fat bike. Given my local trail conditions with a decent amount of climbing, I would imagine that having a medium stem (80-100mm) would be most fun.

I rode a medium salsa mukluk yesterday and it was decent but I think it would have been slightly more fun if it were a touch smaller but there is no small to demo. I just don't want to go so small that I feel like I'm going over the handlebars on descents.

Any thoughts from the group here?



tfinator said:


> I am 5'7". I ride a 50cm road and cross bike with short stems and pretty good saddle to bar drops. Yet my MTB is a medium ibis tranny with a 110mm stem. The geometry is basically spot on for the ibis, and this is a MTB, so I went with the small.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

silvbullit said:


> It is like a Bob Villa and Martha Stewart orgy in your tubeless setup. I have seen the foam trick before to keep the bead in place but what is the cling wrap for?


I know. I partially just wanted to see if I could make it work. The cling wrap is what actually seals the tire to make it air tight


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Higgins- I went short stem on a longer frame and it still climbs like a goat. My old Pugs was short in the top tube for me. It put me over the bars too much in standing climbs, unweighting the rear wheel, and negating the fat traction advantage. YMMV, but these are long in reach compared to the Fatboy, as far as I can tell.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Higgins17 said:


> That's comforting to know. I am also 5'7". The small is at the lower end for what I have ridden in the past and the medium is almost spot on to my current stumpjumper (which I wish was just a touch smaller). I just can't decide if I want to err toward having a larger frame and shorter stem or a shorter stem on a larger frame - especially on a fat bike.
> 
> Any thoughts from the group here?


I am between 5'7" and 5"8" with a 29" inseam (short legs/long torso) and went with the 17.5". The NTB Geo matched up well with the 17" Rockhopper 29er (rigid) I was riding before. The NTB fits me well.

The standover is tight...I think due to the Bluto...but once on the bike, it fits really nice. Handling is great for the little riding I've been able to do on it. I use a 60-65mm stem, 710-720mm wide bars and matched up my contact point numbers from my Rockhopper.

I was able to do a ride this past Sept that covered 45 miles & 7000 ft of climbing without any back issues etc normally associated with fit with these numbers so I am sticking with them.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

AllMountin' - thanks for that head's up. Whenever I get on my older, smaller hardtail, I get quite a twitchy feeling. Having not had a ton of fat bike experience myself, it's hard to tell whether that twitchiness would be less pronounced on a fat bike.

It's weird, because at 5'7", I am dead center for the size recommendation for a small. If only the effective top tube on the small or medium was more like 585mm.

Any thoughts from anyone else?



AllMountin' said:


> Higgins- I went short stem on a longer frame and it still climbs like a goat. My old Pugs was short in the top tube for me. It put me over the bars too much in standing climbs, unweighting the rear wheel, and negating the fat traction advantage. YMMV, but these are long in reach compared to the Fatboy, as far as I can tell.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

I was just reading about your heights and sizing. I am 5'10" and ride mainly all mountain and freeride on size large Santa Cruzs. Reading their sizing chart, I ordered the 17.5. Did I make the right choice, or should I switch my order to a 19". Your help/suggestions would be appreciated.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

AndrewZorn said:


> I'm currently talking to BikesDirect because my Samox crank is bent. I posted videos earlier (with no replies) but after a lot of analysis figured out it isn't just the chainrings... the spindle or something is bent bad enough to give a visible left-to-right wobble of the chainrings. It's small, but seeing as how my road bikes have a much larger ring that should show more deflection, yet don't, I think it's not acceptable for a brand new part. Just thought I would mention this because I am apparently not the only one to have issues with the cranks. Mine was either manufactured poorly or damaged in shipping, but still.


Well, they got back to me and told me pedal issues not covered by warranty. They offered to help me get a comparable crank for a decent price from them. I've already got one coming and told them about it. He then offered me 30 bucks reimbursement.

I guess its better than nothing and waiting longer for another crank from them would be annoying.

Everyone else, watch those pedals - hopefully my issue was a one-of.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

*Sturgis/Night Train Bullet sizing VS Lurch*



JCHKeys said:


> I was just reading about your heights and sizing. I am 5'10" and ride mainly all mountain and freeride on size large Santa Cruzs. Reading their sizing chart, I ordered the 17.5. Did I make the right choice, or should I switch my order to a 19". Your help/suggestions would be appreciated.


For what its worth, I've been on a Medium 18" rigid Lurch for several months, riding daily. I'm 5'10.5" when not slouching, with a 31" inseam. It fits, and I've been having a blast on it, but would prefer a bigger bike. I have a fair amount of seatpost out, seat set back on rails, and an average length stem. Its super responsive, especially in tight and twisty singletrack, climbs like a goat, feels short at downhill speeds. I have a Large Strugis Bullet on order, so I'm sizing up from the Medium Lurch. Here is the Spec comparison I put together based on published BD frame specs that helped me decide to size up. I figured asking for standover height on a fatbike with a 120mm Bluto would come at too high a cost in the rest of the bike sizing.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

FWIW, I am used to slacker AM geometry, and my setup is intended to mimic that feel. On a long front center, steeper angled bike, slamming the stem and using wide riser bars can put the bars in a similar relationship with the front axle, and with myself, to what I prefer. 

I'm going to try a 40mm stem and 2" riser, but will have to see if that is too short/tall or not.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

*EDIT: Lurch M ETT is 592.48mm.*

Removed post. Lurch *IS* quoted at 592.48mm ETT.



watermonkey said:


> For what its worth, I've been on a Medium 18" rigid Lurch for several months, riding daily. I'm 5'10.5" when not slouching, with a 31" inseam. It fits, and I've been having a blast on it, but would prefer a bigger bike. I have a fair amount of seatpost out, seat set back on rails, and an average length stem. Its super responsive, especially in tight and twisty singletrack, climbs like a goat, feels short at downhill speeds. I have a Large Strugis Bullet on order, so I'm sizing up from the Medium Lurch. Here is the Spec comparison I put together based on published BD frame specs that helped me decide to size up. I figured asking for standover height on a fatbike with a 120mm Bluto would come at too high a cost in the rest of the bike sizing.
> 
> View attachment 939654


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

BD on customer service....had a broken dérailleur hanger Friday, and have the new one here on Monday morning. May want to order another for a spare as they have more in stock. Now time to put together and RIDE!!


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

They shipped me a new crankset to replace the bent one (I'll see if the new one is any better though, maybe they're just cheap) and reimbursed me for the broken chain and scratched seatpost. As long as there isn't more drama with the new crankset, I would have to say my BikesDirect experience has been most excellent.

Still debating light tubes vs tubeless. I'm pretty happy with ~8psi in the tires (although it induces some self-steer) and 110psi in the fork (which is pretty much exactly what the printed chart suggests).


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Higgins17 said:


> Thanks for that info Watermonkey. Just wanted to point out a pretty important typo in your spreadsheet - the Medium Lurch effective top tube is actually 582.48mm *not* 592.48mm. This could be important to someone who's a bit shorter than you wondering if they should be sized M or L.
> 
> Nice analysis though!


Unless I'm missing something, everything published on BD for the Lurch 18" M ETT is 592.48, physical measurement center to center on my bike is really close to this, and to back that up, since this is a direct Pugs knockoff (san's symmetrical rear spacing), Surly specs have the 18" Pugs ETT @ 595.6 mm, within a few mm's. If you've seen different geometries listed somewhere, I'm curious to see them.

Additionally, for those paying attention to this, and muddling though BD's geometries, the frame geometries for the Lurch w/BLUTO do not reflect the increase in standover or changes to wheelbase with the BLUTO vs. rigid Lurch. They state in small print somewhere to add 1" to standover height, so take all their geometries with a grain of salt. They also don't make a distinction between sprung/unsprung Sturgis/NightTrain frame geometries either, where non-sag standovers are going to be significantly different.

Kind of muddled, so hope this helps someone.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

Watermonkey, you're right. Odd because I triple checked that the numbers were off before calling that out. I'm going to edit my post so as not to confuse anyone. Maybe I was looking at a different geometry chart...


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Anyone get tubes with removeable cores? Was going to throw some sealant in mine and it looks like they are non-removeable cores. 

Not a big deal but now I'll have to order a set of tubes.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Both are non removable for me. I ended up getting a specialized 26*2.3-3.0 tube and it works fine. Also half the weight of the stock tube. And around 100 grams more than the tape I put there to make tubeless


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

Not a fan of UPS this evening, they maintained all day that the bike would be delivered today even when it didn't show it was out for delivery....worked from home since they require a signature....didn't show...GRRRRRRR.....rant over :madman:


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## jazzer2 (Aug 14, 2006)

*sturgis small*

I'm about 5'7" and am riding a small Sturgis Bullet. I found it fits me perfect. The small is larger than I thought, anyone shorter would find it a little big. The top tube feels long but not too stretched in that size. I put a 60mm stem on there. Have just enough standover, could have used more.

As others have said, these bikes are long and slack, climb really well but have to wrestle the steering on tight trails. I'm never sure what the point of slack head angles is on anything other than downhill bikes, I'm never going fast enough on single track to see any stability advantages to make it worth losing the quick steering response.

So if you're in between sizes you could safely go for the small. You could easily leave the long stem and get a seatpost with more setback and still feel like the frame fits well.

And someone else asked about foot overlapping the front tire one the small frame - no way. I could ride with my heel on the pedal and still not hit the tire.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

Does anybody else's tracking info still say "picked up" rather than "in transit?" Now UPS is messing with me dammit. This bike and I are going to have bad Karma before I even ride it.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Yup same here.. no changes in status since it said "picked up" on friday


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

I too am curious in the difference in geo number between rigid and with bluto.. i cant see that it's the same axle to crown measurement which would definitely change the geo


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## jazzer2 (Aug 14, 2006)

Mine was in picked up status until the day before it arrived. Have faith, its coming.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

manchvegas said:


> Yup same here.. no changes in status since it said "picked up" on friday


Same.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

THANK YOU! Out of curiosity, what is your inseam? I'm right around 30ish. Honestly, this is exactly what I needed to hear. I also heard that the bluto has a bit less standover than rigid so it will be nice to start with a bit more. I was worried that there would be issues with toe clearance, but it's nice to hear that you're not finding that problem. I am still a bit concerned about riding with boots, but I don't see that happening too much anyway.



jazzer2 said:


> I'm about 5'7" and am riding a small Sturgis Bullet. I found it fits me perfect. The small is larger than I thought, anyone shorter would find it a little big. The top tube feels long but not too stretched in that size. I put a 60mm stem on there. Have just enough standover, could have used more.
> 
> As others have said, these bikes are long and slack, climb really well but have to wrestle the steering on tight trails. I'm never sure what the point of slack head angles is on anything other than downhill bikes, I'm never going fast enough on single track to see any stability advantages to make it worth losing the quick steering response.
> 
> ...


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

car_nut said:


> Same.


I just checked my "picked-up" status from Friday (for the 100th time today). It now shows "in transit", butstill has not left Mesquite, TX. While originally, it was to be delivered on Thursday, it is now to be delivered on Friday. This is a problem for me as I had booked Friday off from work to drive across the border to pick it up. But if it doesn't arrive till some time on Friday, I'm going to have to wait around on Friday before crossing the border. This is a major inconvenience. And if it doesn't end up showing up on the Friday as per my updated tracking, then this may mean Monday! And I can't take time off next week. This has gotten me a little concerned now as I rearranged my work/vacation schedule.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

neons97 said:


> I just checked my "picked-up" status from Friday (for the 100th time today). It now shows "in transit", butstill has not left Mesquite, TX. While originally, it was to be delivered on Thursday, it is now to be delivered on Friday. This is a problem for me as I had booked Friday off from work to drive across the border to pick it up. But if it doesn't arrive till some time on Friday, I'm going to have to wait around on Friday before crossing the border. This is a major inconvenience. And if it doesn't end up showing up on the Friday as per my updated tracking, then this may mean Monday! And I can't take time off next week. This has gotten me a little concerned now as I rearranged my work/vacation schedule.


Last Friday I missed my delivery. My wife was out and the UPS guy showed up with my bike...normally a later in the day stop but he ended up making the attempt at just after noon. Was re-scheduled to Monday.

I contacted UPS and was able to pick it up directly from the hub later that night (~9pm but at least I got it). Might be worth a shot to contact UPS and see if you can pick it up from the hub if you miss the Friday delivery.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

I'm pissed! My UPS tracking number has been saying delivery Wednesday, but I just refreshed and it now says Thursday! Ordered in mid August, then it's held up in customs now UPS is screwing me! Someone is trying to teach me patience but it's not working.


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## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

hartzpad said:


> I'm pissed! My UPS tracking number has been saying delivery Wednesday, but I just refreshed and it now says Thursday! Ordered in mid August, then it's held up in customs now UPS is screwing me! Someone is trying to teach me patience but it's not working.


Same Boat here. But at least UPS tracking is showing it finally left Mesquite TX and is "in transit", so I know it's coming! That said, I'm sure I'm not thru being defecated on. Still to come: 1.) Fiasco getting the delivery itself (I'm sure I'll miss the UPS guy by 5 minutes, and will have to travel to the hub 5x, half hour away). 2.) Bike Damaged in transit 3.) Premature breakage of bike that the warranty doesn't cover, most likely deep in the forest requiring a LOOOONG hike out.. 4.) Riding Injury.

I'm just a beam of f*****g sunshine today, ain't I? LOL


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

silvbullit said:


> Does anybody else's tracking info still say "picked up" rather than "in transit?" Now UPS is messing with me dammit. This bike and I are going to have bad Karma before I even ride it.


They did the same to me. I was skeptical because it didn't say it was out for delivery. today it says it left TX at 4 something am, but now shows a delivery of today....which I doubt because it didn't make the delivery truck this morning. It'll be tomorrow unless they sort it before closing time today and I'm able to put a hold on it and pick it up then.

^^^ and I thought I was the only one who was hatin on UPS ...lol
they sent me a pic of a few of the brown warehouse guys riding around on several fat bikes jumping off the docks. thankfully none of them looked like a 21" NTB


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

OnThaCouch said:


> Last Friday I missed my delivery. My wife was out and the UPS guy showed up with my bike...normally a later in the day stop but he ended up making the attempt at just after noon. Was re-scheduled to Monday.
> 
> I contacted UPS and was able to pick it up directly from the hub later that night (~9pm but at least I got it). Might be worth a shot to contact UPS and see if you can pick it up from the hub if you miss the Friday delivery.


Thanks for the heads-up. I called UPS and have instructed them not to put it out on a truck for delivery to the local UPS store. I will pick-up from the hub. The rep told me also that this will likely reduce further delays and that I should be able to pick-up by 1pm instead of waiting for it to go out for delivery to the local UPS store and wait till it is delivered and processed there, which would likely be much later than 1pm.

Also, saves me $10 in "Need a US Address" fee charged by the UPS store franchis by picking up directly from the UPS hub. And one less load/unload process to reduce potential shipping damage.


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

Mine is 1.5 hours down the turnpike...hopefully it will be available for pickup this evening. You need a gov't issue photo ID and the address must match the delivery address they said. If not it must be accompanied by a passport.....fyi


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

gurleyman said:


> Mine is 1.5 hours down the turnpike...hopefully it will be available for pickup this evening. You need a gov't issue photo ID and the address must match the delivery address they said. If not it must be accompanied by a passport.....fyi


The phone rep said I needed gov't issued photo ID with my signature on it. And my shipping/receipt from the seller showing original address. No issues on either.


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

Has anybody swapped a Bluto out for a rigid fork?

I have a Boris X9 Bluto on the way. Spent a little more than intended so I plan to sell the Bluto fork and replace with a rigid, maybe a China carbon off ebay but need to find a tapered rigid carbon fork with 150mm spacing and thru-axle. Kinda crazy how many descriptors and small differences exist for simple equipment.

It'd be great to get a Carver or Lamere fork...but if we had that kinda dough, we wouldn't be on Motobecane's to begin with!


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Q2 and xmiplay now both offer a carbon, tapered, 15x150mm TA fork. Not sure what axle-to-crown measurement is and how it compares to the three different bluto travels.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Tips-Up said:


> It'd be great to get a Carver or Lamere fork...but if we had that kinda dough, we wouldn't be on Motobecane's to begin with!


Nonsense. The Night Train is clearly the greatest fatbike OF ALL TIME!


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

I give lots of credit to the rigid riders out there. Rode a mukluk rigid on rocks and large roots and quickly pulled the trigger on a bluto night train. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

allmountin' said:


> nonsense. The night train is clearly the greatest fatbike of all time!


QFT!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Fleas said:


> I asked for this same deal because I love that midnight purple. They didn't even mention that it was an option, so I just ordered a white Sturgis. Let us know if your upgrade works out.
> 
> -F


If It's any indication by my CC bill, I'll be receiving the Night Train Deep Purple less the Bluto as they billed me $1199.That's ok cuz I bought a Bluto from Chain Reaction and it's waiting in the box.








I was just going to sell it if I got the Bluto.

The bad news is, like almost everyone else ,UPS is now showing a Friday delivery so I have to wait one more agonizingly long day.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Where does everyone find their superlight q-tubes to buy? Internet? Local shops?

Thanks!


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

fripp said:


> Where does everyone find their superlight q-tubes to buy? Internet? Local shops?
> 
> Thanks!


I ordered from Tree Fort Bikes. I used the non SL and replaced the rim strips with silver duct tape, saved 455 grams per wheel.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

siv said:


> I ordered from Tree Fort Bikes. I used the non SL and replaced the rim strips with silver duct tape, saved 455 grams per wheel.


Rim tape really weighs that much? That's insane


----------



## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

Tips-Up said:


> Has anybody swapped a Bluto out for a rigid fork?
> 
> I have a Boris X9 Bluto on the way. Spent a little more than intended so I plan to sell the Bluto fork and replace with a rigid, maybe a China carbon off ebay but need to find a tapered rigid carbon fork with 150mm spacing and thru-axle. Kinda crazy how many descriptors and small differences exist for simple equipment.
> 
> It'd be great to get a Carver or Lamere fork...but if we had that kinda dough, we wouldn't be on Motobecane's to begin with!


I installed a surly ice cream truck fork on my sturgis for winter riding. If you search back a few pages you'll see photos/details.

Bikes direct is also going to be selling the alloy stock fork from the sturgis and a carbon version as well sometime this winter.

The ICT fork can be had for about $100. Heavy though - about a half pound less than the bluto.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Where did you get information regarding a carbon fork from bikes direct?


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## Tin Turtle (Sep 6, 2012)

silvbullit said:


> Does anybody else's tracking info still say "picked up" rather than "in transit?" Now UPS is messing with me dammit. This bike and I are going to have bad Karma before I even ride it.


Yep, scheduled for delivery today so I sat at home waiting. No movement, no scans, nothing. Very strange.


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

Tonggi said:


> Where did you get information regarding a carbon fork from bikes direct?


In an email from them:

We expect Sturgis rigid forks this coming winter for resale, as well as a carbon fiber version.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

drmayer said:


> In an email from them:
> 
> We expect Sturgis rigid forks this coming winter for resale, as well as a carbon fiber version.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's good to hear. When I contacted them shortly after ordering my NTB back in July, they were not going to be selling forks separately...or at least that's what I was told.

Since I don't ride the snow, I am not sure I need the rigid. I was intially thinking I wanted both but now I'm not so sure.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

OnThaCouch said:


> Did find out that my rear der. hanger was bent though. Shifting was a little funky and tried dialing it out but no dice. Took a closer look from the back and it was bent. Emailed BD to see what they say.


Just to follow up...I got an email from BD that they are shipping me a replacement hanger. Woo-hoo!! Nice move, BD. THAT is great customer service.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

What do you guys think of the 29" wheel option that is supposedly coming soon? It looks like the frame geometry could take it.



OnThaCouch said:


> That's good to hear. When I contacted them shortly after ordering my NTB back in July, they were not going to be selling forks separately...or at least that's what I was told.
> 
> Since I don't ride the snow, I am not sure I need the rigid. I was intially thinking I wanted both but now I'm not so sure.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Higgins17 said:


> What do you guys think of the 29" wheel option that is supposedly coming soon? It looks like the frame geometry could take it.


I think the 29+ will fit but I would buy a set from a reputable builder that can be converted to tubeless over what BD might be offering. The BD rims haven't been shown to run tubeless with any success as far as I've been able to tell/read.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Higgins17 said:


> I give lots of credit to the rigid riders out there. Rode a mukluk rigid on rocks and large roots and quickly pulled the trigger on a bluto night train.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I did 5 miles on a rigid Beargrease Carbon this summer and thought - if this had a suspension fork it would be the most awesome bike ever. Then I rode a Bucksaw. 

Glad I bought the Bluto version but the Bucksaw haunted my dreams until I ordered one of those too.


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## jazzer2 (Aug 14, 2006)

I have a friend who converted the same Wienmann rims to tubeless and even used Stan's stems. I'm going to have him help me do mine as soon as he comes back from Sedona.


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

OnThaCouch said:


> I think the 29+ will fit but I would buy a set from a reputable builder that can be converted to tubeless over what BD might be offering. The BD rims haven't been shown to run tubeless with any success as far as I've been able to tell/read.


Split tube will work every time!


----------



## Tin Turtle (Sep 6, 2012)

Bike never showed and now the delivery info is "unavailable". I am wondering if UPS ever actually picked it up from BikesDirect.


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

split tube on these rims is fine. 24" x 2.4 and you are good to go. Check some older threads


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

OnThaCouch said:


> I think the 29+ will fit but I would buy a set from a reputable builder that can be converted to tubeless over what BD might be offering. The BD rims haven't been shown to run tubeless with any success as far as I've been able to tell/read.


The Fat bike wheels? I was able to make one tubeless with gorilla tape. I'll eventually convert other one


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Tonggi said:


> Rim tape really weighs that much? That's insane


Rim strips are about 150 grand and tubes are 640 grams.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Heres a link to a Carbon 9 zero 7 fork. It's 135 spaced so I'm not sure if it'll fit on Sturgis/NT, no end caps make it work maybe?

9:ZERO:7 Whiteout Carbon Fork offered by Fatbikes.com


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

livewr06 said:


> If It's any indication by my CC bill, I'll be receiving the Night Train Deep Purple less the Bluto as they billed me $1199.That's ok cuz I bought a Bluto from Chain Reaction and it's waiting in the box.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you end up with two Blutos PM me please.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

siv said:


> Rim strips are about 150 grand and tubes are 640 grams.


So you just take a strip of tape, sticky side up, and put another strip against it (sticky side down) to make a new rim strip? Do you just wrap it around and join it with another piece of tape?

Surprised this doesn't get extremely dirty over time, but I suppose it would clean up like anything else with the right surface.

How much do you figure the tape itself weighs compared to the stock rim strips?


----------



## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

fripp said:


> So you just take a strip of tape, sticky side up, and put another strip against it (sticky side down) to make a new rim strip? Do you just wrap it around and join it with another piece of tape?
> 
> Surprised this doesn't get extremely dirty over time, but I suppose it would clean up like anything else with the right surface.
> 
> How much do you figure the tape itself weighs compared to the stock rim strips?


That's pretty much the deal, I used clear packaging tape over that on both sides to secure it to the rim then. I only did it because I couldn't find silver rim strips. Yes, I'm sure it will get filthy, guess I'll find out soon. The tape job I did came out to about 60 grams.


----------



## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

*What bashguard will fit stock Samox crank?*

I would like to install a bashguard. Does anyone know of a good option.

I looked at a BBG 104 BCG 36 T. I would need to find longer fasteners to attach it on the outside of the spider. Does anyone know where to get the longer fasteners?

Thanks


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Raceface has 10mm fasteners on their website I believe - used for the NW 30T rings but probably what you would need.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

For anyone who wants to know about the Samox crank and greasing etc - I just took mine off as I am replacing it because it broke but I got to see the ins and outs of it. Took the crank off and the bottom bracket, so I saw what was going on - mine was perfectly greased up. The spindle, the bearings inside the BB etc was very nicely greased up. 

I didn't really know what to expect with the spacers etc, but they are just two aluminum rings that sit on the spindle at each end - nothing really to it.

I'd say in most cases don't bother opening it up as it seems to be well taken care of.


----------



## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

BBG is the cheapest, but will bend and deform easily from rock strikes, and will knock your chain off once bent. They are a 'better than nothing' option, and while they will protect your ring from a hit, they are a pain to bend back in the field.

I recommend the Salsa Tooth Fairy, which can also be found in the QBP catalog under the name 'Dimensions'. It is 1/4" aluminum, with serrated 'teeth'. The teeth will wear after repeated rock strikes, but it doesn't bend or break. 

It mated up okay with the Samox. I had spare ring fasteners lying around, so I'm not sure what size I used.


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

neons97 said:


> Q2 and xmiplay now both offer a carbon, tapered, 15x150mm TA fork. Not sure what axle-to-crown measurement is and how it compares to the three different bluto travels.


Not seeing just the fork option. Looks like they both have frameset/forks but no fork-only option on website; haven't contacted them about fork only option. Emailed ebay seller carbon-goods, they said they'll have a 150 option in 2 months.

The 907 carbon fork is 135 spacing, not 150, so does not appear to work. I emailed BD and they said a compatible fork must be 150 spacing, so sounds like it can't be converted to 135 (which is consistent to earlier in this thread where someone showed the pics of a 135 and 150 hub). Got my shipping confirmation for Dec. 10 today, so I'll just have to wait and see. Thanks


----------



## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

fripp said:


> For anyone who wants to know about the Samox crank and greasing etc - I just took mine off as I am replacing it because it broke but I got to see the ins and outs of it. Took the crank off and the bottom bracket, so I saw what was going on - mine was perfectly greased up. The spindle, the bearings inside the BB etc was very nicely greased up.
> 
> I didn't really know what to expect with the spacers etc, but they are just two aluminum rings that sit on the spindle at each end - nothing really to it.
> 
> I'd say in most cases don't bother opening it up as it seems to be well taken care of.


I took mine apart last night also. The cartridge bearings are sealed so they should be maintenance free for quite some time.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

AllMountin' said:


> BBG is the cheapest, but will bend and deform easily from rock strikes, and will knock your chain off once bent. They are a 'better than nothing' option, and while they will protect your ring from a hit, they are a pain to bend back in the field.
> 
> I recommend the Salsa Tooth Fairy, which can also be found in the QBP catalog under the name 'Dimensions'. It is 1/4" aluminum, with serrated 'teeth'. The teeth will wear after repeated rock strikes, but it doesn't bend or break.
> 
> It mated up okay with the Samox. I had spare ring fasteners lying around, so I'm not sure what size I used.


Thanks, got a Dimension ordered. Now to figure out what length fasteners I need. I will remove one when I get home tonight and measure the length of the stock ones.


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## Scow (Nov 5, 2014)

Tin Turtle said:


> Yep, scheduled for delivery today so I sat at home waiting. No movement, no scans, nothing. Very strange.


My bike is stuck in Texas as well. supposed to delivered today, but I doubt it will be.
I think I am the third one with this issue. anybody else?


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## Scow (Nov 5, 2014)

I scheduled the next two days off work to play with the new bike and I feel like there won't be a bike before the weekend is over. No tracking number movement since it was picked up by UPS. 😞


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## Tin Turtle (Sep 6, 2012)

"We just received word from our warehouse that your bike, along with a handful of others was damaged at some point on the way to the UPS terminal or at the terminal. UPS brought them back and yeah, they are destroyed"

Email from today. Waiting on a call to find out how it will be resolved.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Ouch. That's a tough blow right there. Can't really replace it if all the stock was presold.


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

Fatty McPhatpants


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Tin Turtle said:


> "We just received word from our warehouse that your bike, along with a handful of others was damaged at some point on the way to the UPS terminal or at the terminal. UPS brought them back and yeah, they are destroyed"
> 
> Email from today. Waiting on a call to find out how it will be resolved.


Ouch...that's gonna leave a mark :eekster::cryin:.

Sorry to hear that for those of you whose bikes were in these shipments.

FYI...my shipping tag didn't show any movement either (other than it was picked up) until it was out for delivery. Normally I would be able to track the movement from TX to here in CA. Didn't happen this time for me. YMMV.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Tin Turtle said:


> "We just received word from our warehouse that your bike, along with a handful of others was damaged at some point on the way to the UPS terminal or at the terminal. UPS brought them back and yeah, they are destroyed"
> 
> Email from today. Waiting on a call to find out how it will be resolved.


Man that is total crap. Feel so bad for you guys cause its been too long already and now what? Let us know what they do for you I'd be curious how they make good on this.


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## alewi11 (May 20, 2010)

So my Night Train Bullet was involved in the UPS damage. Bikes Direct offered me a few options for resolution. I opted to get the same size Night Train without the Bluto. Bikes direct is refunding me $300 and sending me a free Bluto when they get new stock in Jan/Feb. 

While I'm certainly not thrilled with the wait, I was extremely happy with the resolution they came up with.


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

alewi11 said:


> So my Night Train Bullet was involved in the UPS damage. Bikes Direct offered me a few options for resolution. I opted to get the same size Night Train without the Bluto. Bikes direct is refunding me $300 and sending me a free Bluto when they get new stock in Jan/Feb.
> 
> While I'm certainly not thrilled with the wait, I was extremely happy with the resolution
> they came up with.


WOOOW that's a sweet deal if you ask me. I'd have taken that anyday. Sorry about your frustration though. sucks


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## Tin Turtle (Sep 6, 2012)

They are shipping out a Night Train in black, my size. I really wanted the purple, but at least I didn't pay to have my rack powder coated yellow already. They threw in a tool kit for me to compensate. I wouldn't have minded a free Bluto lol


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Yeah, you get a free Bluto upgrade AND get to keep your alloy fork. Yeah the still waiting sucks but that should more than make up for it.  Good to hear BD customer service keeps it up!


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

My Sturgis Bullet showed no movement since being picked up last Friday, then the estimated delivery date went from Wednesday (today) to Thursday (tomorrow). Finally it shows it hit:

Vernon, TX
Trinada, CO
Commerce City, CO

Due for delivery in Utah to me tomorrow.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I haven't received this email. But my bike hasn't shown any movement out of Texas ups sin Friday afternoon 

This would suck big time as I have almost $400 in parts sitting and ready to go on.


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## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

Customer service folks sound like they're offering nice concessions. Imagine what their scene looks like.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

alewi11 said:


> So my Night Train Bullet was involved in the UPS damage. Bikes Direct offered me a few options for resolution. I opted to get the same size Night Train without the Bluto. Bikes direct is refunding me $300 and sending me a free Bluto when they get new stock in Jan/Feb.
> 
> While I'm certainly not thrilled with the wait, I was extremely happy with the resolution they came up with.


WOW!! You hit the BD Lottery...sweet deal.

Awesome customer service. Great job, BD!


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Tin Turtle said:


> "We just received word from our warehouse that your bike, along with a handful of others was damaged at some point on the way to the UPS terminal or at the terminal. UPS brought them back and yeah, they are destroyed"
> 
> Email from today. Waiting on a call to find out how it will be resolved.


Wow That sucks!
Mine hasn't shown any movement since being picked up with the delivery date changing from tomorrow to Friday. I haven't seen any movement or tracking. 
You'd think it would have hit a hub by now.
Do you think BD sent Emails to everyones's who got damaged or is mine on the side of a road too??!!


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I'm surprised at this inconsistent BD customer service.

One guy gets $300 off, and a free Bluto and gets to keep his aluminum fork. Let's call that a $1000 resolution ($300+$700 Bluto).

Another guy gets a different colour in his size, and a free tool kit (worth $20-$30?).

I'd be really ticked if I got $20-$30 when I know someone else got $1000


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

neons97 said:


> I'm surprised at this inconsistent BD customer service.
> 
> One guy gets $300 off, and a free Bluto and gets to keep his aluminum fork. Let's call that a $1000 resolution ($300+$700 Bluto).
> 
> ...


Way I see it is they're offering a bigger compensation to the guy who has to wait til Jan/Feb for the fork to complete the bike he was expecting now - whereas someone else just ends up with a slight delay and a color change.

My bike is supposed to get here tomorrow... last reported in Roanoke VA! Better believe I'm checking it over thoroughly though! Sounds like BD is eating it on shipping damage for these...


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## Tin Turtle (Sep 6, 2012)

Actually its about a $300 resolution, he gets a free Bluto, everything else he paid for. I would have like one sure, but in the context of my purchase its a little hard to see that happening. His was different, I assume they couldn't offer him the same bike but a different color (as was my deal). I mean I could have tried pounding them for more concessions but in reality its UPS who screwed up. As long as *this* one makes it here in one piece I am cool with how it worked out.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

You're right. My math is off. But he does get a free Bluto in the end for his wait. That's a killer deal to get a $720 fork for free for the delay.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

First Customs(air quotes) and now this?.....hmmmm


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

beachbum1 said:


> First Customs(air quotes) and now this?.....hmmmm


I'm getting very impatient...

First...2 week delay due to "fat bike part supplier delays"
Then...Customs delay
Then...UPS doesn't show movement for 3 days
Then...Bikes damaged by UPS (I haven't received this email yet...but I also haven't received my bike yet, and I paid on July 28th!!!)

And...I'm in CAnada, and having my bike shipped to Buffalo. Even without a potential UPS delay, I doubt that UPS will be getting this bike to Buffalo on Friday given their 6 ft. of snow in 3 days, and another 2-3 ft. expected overnight. Weather isn't BD's fault...but I'm almost ready to cancel my order and just pay full retail at my LBS so I can get riding.


----------



## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

Soooo close...


----------



## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

neons97 said:


> I'm getting very impatient...
> 
> First...2 week delay due to "fat bike part supplier delays"
> Then...Customs delay
> ...


Ooohhh, the Buffalo factor.... Yeah, that's gonna be a problem for ya. Stupid lake-effect snow...

Too bad you're not closer to Ottawa or I'd lend you my Lurch to keep you sane! ;-)


----------



## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

My Sturgis Bullet is out for delivery....I Hope. 3 months of waiting.


----------



## HydroManEd (Aug 15, 2014)

My wait will finally end today  the only thing I see, is on truck for delivery by end of day.no work for me today


----------



## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

HydroManEd said:


> My wait will finally end today  the only thing I see, is on truck for delivery by end of day.no work for me today


Mine too! Pretty stoked

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

looks like my last scan was Missouri on Tuesday.. supposed to be delivered tomorrow(Friday).. we shall see.. hopefully it's not on it's way back to texas..


----------



## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

manchvegas said:


> looks like my last scan was Missouri on Tuesday.. supposed to be delivered tomorrow(Friday).. we shall see.. hopefully it's not on it's way back to texas..


Looks like your bike and mine are travelling with the buddy system  Hoping for arrival tomorrow. I diverted mine to the local hub for pick up. I prefer doing this with large/expensive items so if it has obviously been Ace Ventura'd I can open the box in front of them and deny delivery if necessary.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

MaximumX said:


> Ooohhh, the Buffalo factor.... Yeah, that's gonna be a problem for ya. Stupid lake-effect snow...
> 
> Too bad you're not closer to Ottawa or I'd lend you my Lurch to keep you sane! ;-)


ARGH...just venting...my bike reached the Buffalo depot this morning...but the depot is now closed due to weather.... I will have to call the general 1-800 UPS number to get updates on the depot's closure. I am 2+hrs. away from the depot and the operator couldn't offer me any other way to check on the status of the depot other than to call the 1-800 number and go through the whole rigamorole every time. And that's no guarantee that once I'm on the road, they won't close without notifying me.

I just wanted a number to call the depot directly so I can check on their status..no-go...wouldn't release that info. Told me just to call back to the 1-800 number.


----------



## HydroManEd (Aug 15, 2014)

*My wait is Finally OVER*







:thumbsup:My wait is finally over here are some pictures before set up,this might help in the waiting process .Once I finish with this post I will start to put my Sturgis Bullet together and add my shimano pedals EPD MX80 on and not worry about shaving a gram or ounce here or there from the bike which = more money. I'm going to have fun with my new bike and worry more about shaving off some ounces and pounds from myself and enjoy this 1300 hundred dollar bike.


----------



## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

Congrats!!


----------



## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

My wait is finally over too. There's a big box full of fatbike outside my house, my neighbor signed for it. Gonna rush home soon to tear this thing open. 

The UPS web status portal only showed "In Transit", but never "Out for delivery". It just showed up. But seconds after my neighbor txt'd me, the status was updated to delivered. Seemed to have skipped a few scans in the process. 

More will follow.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

neons97 said:


> ARGH...just venting...my bike reached the Buffalo depot this morning...but the depot is now closed due to weather.... I will have to call the general 1-800 UPS number to get updates on the depot's closure. I am 2+hrs. away from the depot and the operator couldn't offer me any other way to check on the status of the depot other than to call the 1-800 number and go through the whole rigamorole every time. And that's no guarantee that once I'm on the road, they won't close without notifying me.
> 
> I just wanted a number to call the depot directly so I can check on their status..no-go...wouldn't release that info. Told me just to call back to the 1-800 number.


When I missed my delivery, I went through the "Chat" function on the UPS site. I asked about picking up from the Hub and they actually had the Hub call me directly. 
Maybe that is an option for you and then get contact info from the Hub folks when they touch bases with you.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

I will hopefully know the answer to my own question tomorrow but does anybody know if the rear brake post-mount tabs on the frame are for a 160mm rotor? I am putting different brakes on mine and I am using 160mm and hoping that I will not need adapters for the rear. The standard for the front is usually 160mm so I should be good there but the rear could be small enough to accept 140mm discs and I hope it isn't. If anybody knows feel free to share.


----------



## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

fripp said:


> Well, they got back to me and told me pedal issues not covered by warranty. They offered to help me get a comparable crank for a decent price from them. I've already got one coming and told them about it. He then offered me 30 bucks reimbursement.
> 
> I guess its better than nothing and waiting longer for another crank from them would be annoying.
> 
> Everyone else, watch those pedals - hopefully my issue was a one-of.


I got my new crank and installed it - went on like a dream. Its the Raceface Turbine (not cinch) made for 190mm rear sizing and its very light but built like a tank. Turns out thats the exact one that they are selling with the Framed Bikes too - much nicer and lighter than the Samox was.

I had already thrown a 32t on my Samox crank, but the 36/22 would work well with the Raceface too. It also has a real nice tabbed space for a bash guard, which I got too. Should help save my pants from getting caught in the outer ring.

Highly recommended if you are in the market for a new crank or the threads in yours decided to call it quits


----------



## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

silvbullit said:


> I will hopefully know the answer to my own question tomorrow but does anybody know if the rear brake post-mount tabs on the frame are for a 160mm rotor? I am putting different brakes on mine and I am using 160mm and hoping that I will not need adapters for the rear. The standard for the front is usually 160mm so I should be good there but the rear could be small enough to accept 140mm discs and I hope it isn't. If anybody knows feel free to share.


The discs on the NTB are 180s. I can't recall if the rear has an adapter. I remember the front caliper had an adapter already installed.

EDIT: Check out the pics of the red one above from HydroManEd and you can see the adapter for the rear in one of the photos.


----------



## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Is this for a NTB?

The rear and front both use adapters and are 180mm rotors on my NTB. The adapters are included.


----------



## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

They are indeed 180mm rotors and adapters. I already stole my 180mm rear and put it to 160mm and upped my son's front rotor to 180.


----------



## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

For anyone who has gone 1x10 on their NTB, what does it look like once the FD is removed? Any pics would be awesome.

Thanks!


----------



## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

It looks like one more 19" Night Train came available and I was able to jump on it. It wasn't the groovy purple color, but I can dig the black too. I had a Boris the Brut on order for sometime in January, but instant gratification is much better. Now whether or not I throw on some RaceFace Turbine cranks is the next question. I just had a $200 upgrade to the Night Train, so that kind of ate into my already depleted, pre-Xmas budget...SC


----------



## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Oh boy... I see there's a purple 17.5 NT available on the site. Last one, too. If my Lurch was purple it'd be a whole lot easier to sneak the NT into the garage. 

Stupid yellow Lurch...


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

Destr0 said:


> They are indeed 180mm rotors and adapters. I already stole my 180mm rear and put it to 160mm and upped my son's front rotor to 180.


Thanks, that answers my question. I knew that the bikes already had 180mm front and rear I just needed to know if the rear post-mount without an adapter would be for a 160mm rotor or a 140mm. Some XC bikes are coming with little rotors on the rear so you would need and adapter to run a 160 rotor but it looks like this doesn't need any adapter for 160.

Sweet, I will save some more weight there too. Fewer bolts, fewer parts.


----------



## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

silvbullit said:


> Thanks, that answers my question. I knew that the bikes already had 180mm front and rear I just needed to know if the rear post-mount without an adapter would be for a 160mm rotor or a 140mm. Some XC bikes are coming with little rotors on the rear so you would need and adapter to run a 160 rotor but it looks like this doesn't need any adapter for 160.
> 
> Sweet, I will save some more weight there too. Fewer bolts, fewer parts.


Yeah I took mine off to simplify things and here in the Midwest where I ride there are no downhill runs worthy of 180mm brakes (front or rear). My son has been wanting them for a while now though - so I took one off my bike to give his new bike the 180 he wants - even though he is only 9 and his 160 rotors stop him better than he needs already.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

So BikesDirect shipped me a SRAM X5 crankset instead of a Samox as a replacement... this is good news, assuming it fits... right? It isn't just a rebrand? It looks very similar and has the same number of teeth but I don't have the bike/original within reach right now.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> Yeah I took mine off to simplify things and here in the Midwest where I ride there are no downhill runs worthy of 180mm brakes (front or rear). My son has been wanting them for a while now though - so I took one off my bike to give his new bike the 180 he wants - even though he is only 9 and his 160 rotors stop him better than he needs already.


Where in the Midwest?


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

fripp said:


> For anyone who has gone 1x10 on their NTB, what does it look like once the FD is removed? Any pics would be awesome.
> 
> Thanks!


Pics in post #747


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## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

I ripped into my NTB box today and set it up. I'd say it took all of 1 hour to get it out of the box and assemble it to the stock configuration, and another hour to make my personal changes. To get it to stock configuration was simple:
1.) Attach handlebar 
2.) Insert Seat post w/seat
3.) Add rotor to front wheel
4.) front brake assembly onto fork
5.) Front wheel onto front fork, adjust brake caliper position.
6.) Check tire pressure and fork pressure.

And then I puttered around with other minor customizations: I swapped the seat out. Removed the front handlebar grips and swapped them with a set of locking grips and bar ends. Added the rear light and the front light and took it out for it's quick maiden voyage in the dark. Kept it on the street and went around the block a couple times.

Absolutely no issues here. Everything is pretty well dialed in right out of the box. Didn't have to mess with shifting adjustments, brake adjustments..

The biggest headache was removing the stock handlebar grips. I might have broken a bead of sweat, even with the aid of compressed air.

It's a beast and a half. A fat pig. LOL. I love it.


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## HydroManEd (Aug 15, 2014)

*Finished for now*

























:thumbsup:some finished pics


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

drmayer said:


> Pics in post #747


Thanks I appreciate it but was hoping for more of a closeup. Can't tell what it looks like from you outdoor pics.


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Fortunately, my Night Train was not part of the UPS damaged load. It finally showed up in the area and I will pick it up tomorrow on the way home from work. Wooohooo.
Just in time as the snow is falling in Tahoe!!


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## bobdurden (Apr 24, 2013)

clark4131 said:


> It looks like one more 19" Night Train came available and I was able to jump on it. It wasn't the groovy purple color, but I can dig the black too. I had a Boris the Brut on order for sometime in January, but instant gratification is much better. Now whether or not I throw on some RaceFace Turbine cranks is the next question. I just had a $200 upgrade to the Night Train, so that kind of ate into my already depleted, pre-Xmas budget...SC


Clark, thanks so much for the heads up! I just landed myself an Orange Sturgis. I had the Bullet version on Pre Order but I'm willing to go rigid in order to have the bike next week instead of 9 weeks from now. Hopefully I dont regret the impulse but it was the last one and I have cabin fever. There has been snow on the ground here for weeks now.


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

HydroManEd said:


> View attachment 940579
> View attachment 940580
> View attachment 940581
> View attachment 940582
> :thumbsup:some finished pics


Now you have to get dirt, mud and/or snow on that pristine bike


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## 13eard (Oct 3, 2014)

someone asked for 1x10


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Thanks!!!

You adding a 42 cog eventually or good with it how it is?


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## 4cole_man2 (Nov 16, 2014)

I have a NTB on pre-order for Jan30 - Feb 15 but some full rigid NT just came available so I did a quick scan of the specs and ordered one. I didn't see any reason why installing a Bluto fork won't be a super easy swap. Am I missing anything?? I know it's going to cost me a couple hundred extra bucks ordering the fork separately but 10 weeks is a long time to wait!!!


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

_UPDATE: Called BD on Friday after sending an email on Thurs night. They sent me out a replacement hanger Friday and it arrived today (Mon)._

After 4 months of waiting, my bike arrived today with a trashed rear der. 

The small parts box was wedged between the box and the rear der - the hanger is bent and the cage is twisted.
The brake post on the fork was poking out of the box and the rotor, a bottle cage bolt, and the rt side hub protector were all rolling around loose in the box.

BD posted awhile back about how they were improving packaging? Pretty poor, IMO.

The headtube badge was barely attached so I ditched it along with the lawyer sticker on the top tube and the made in taiwan sticker. I'm too bummed to put it the rest of the way together tonight.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

fripp said:


> Where in the Midwest?


Northwest Indiana - mostly ride the Outback trail system:

Outback Trail at Imagination Glen << I am a member of the Outback Trail commission

I also ride a lot on weekends at Palos:

Palos - Triangle Trail Conditions | CAMBr - Chicago Area Mountain Bikers



We actually have a lot of trails for being right by Chicago, what we do not have is elevation. I can ride all 10 miles of single track at Outback and get 40ft max elevation change. Palos is only a little better with 15+ mile trail rides and the most elevation I have ever seen on my GPS is 80ft. ;-( They call us flatlanders for a reason.


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

4cole_man2 said:


> I have a NTB on pre-order for Jan30 - Feb 15 but some full rigid NT just came available so I did a quick scan of the specs and ordered one. I didn't see any reason why installing a Bluto fork won't be a super easy swap. Am I missing anything?? I know it's going to cost me a couple hundred extra bucks ordering the fork separately but 10 weeks is a long time to wait!!!


Was about to do this very thing in Oct. Just before I pulled the trigger a NTB came available.


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

T


GT_guy said:


> After 4 months of waiting, my bike arrived today with a trashed rear der.
> 
> The small parts box was wedged between the box and the rear der - the hanger is bent and the cage is twisted.
> The brake post on the fork was poking out of the box and the rotor, a bottle cage bolt, and the rt side hub protector were all rolling around loose in the box.
> ...


That's a delivery issue. No doubt BD will right UPS's wrongs


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

*1st Outing*

People are fascinated....


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

Sturgis Bullet arrived with no damage. 17.5" medium fits almost same as my Stumpy 29er 19".

Added carbon bars, shorter stem, 50/50 pedals, Specialized Henge seat and Specialized Command Post dropper. Bike weighs exactly 36.5 lbs. Tektro Brakes are great and bike shifts perfectly front and rear.

Can anyone tell me how I should route the dropper post cable? It's too short to route under the downtubr and too long to follow the top tube.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

Adhesive cable guides will work great, I use them on one of my bikes that doesn't have dropper routing. As long as you prep the surface with alcohol first they will stick for a long time.

Jagwire Alloy Stick on Housing Cable Hose Gguide 4 Pcs | eBay

If you don't want to wait, I used some adhesive mounts from Lowes for a while. I trimmed them down and then used a zip-tie to hold the housing. Where there are options to run a zip tie in both directions, I clipped one path so that the housing had a channel to rest in and then I routed the zip tie over the housing completely and did not go under. I hope this makes sense. It is hard to explain.

Shop Gardner Bender 10-Pack Nylon Mounting Base Cable Ties at Lowes.com

Note: The Moto top tube looks more flat than tubular so you should get a cable guide that doesn't have alot of curvature. The Lowes ones may work out fine. Not gorgeous but shes a performance machine not a beauty queen.


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

hartzpad said:


> Sturgis Bullet arrived with no damage. 17.5" medium fits almost same as my Stumpy 29er 19".


Are you saying these run a bit big?


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

radnur22 said:


> Are you saying these run a bit big?


Yes, larger than I expected. I almost switched to a large 19" but I didnt after reading others reports. I'm 5'11" 33" inseam and if be worried about any less stand over with the Bluto adding to this problem.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

They definitely run long. With those stock stems, anyway. On my xl, I went from a 120 to a 40 millimeter stem. So, about 3 inches shorter, with a 2 inch riser bar, probably an inch higher. That is a drastic change in reach, but I think it's going to work out just fine.

As for that dropper post routing, you are definitely going to want to use the top tube. You'll have to cut the cable and housing down a bit. You will want to secure it tightly near where the seat tube and top tube join, so that it cannot slide forward when the seat post drops.


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

I didn't see this earlier. Can anyone with a rigid fork let me know the axle to crown measurement? 

I didn't realized how tall this thing was gonna be, going to lower my bluto to 100mm or 90mm

Thank you. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> Northwest Indiana - mostly ride the Outback trail system:
> 
> Outback Trail at Imagination Glen << I am a member of the Outback Trail commission
> 
> ...


Ah okay - for a second I wondered if you were in OH. Our elevation is definitely better than where you are but you do have to seek it out.

Enjoy!


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

gurleyman said:


> T
> 
> That's a delivery issue. No doubt BD will right UPS's wrongs


Not sure I agree with that. He said the spare parts box had broken loose and was wedged between the derailleur. That's a packaging assembly or design issue. Unprotected sharp points piercing the box wall fall into the same category.

Meanwhile, my bike has apparently gone rogue with Manchvegas' bike and shacked up in a hotel room someplace


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## coot271 (Sep 15, 2010)

hartzpad said:


> Sturgis Bullet arrived with no damage. 17.5" medium fits almost same as my Stumpy 29er 19".
> 
> Added carbon bars, shorter stem, 50/50 pedals, Specialized Henge seat and Specialized Command Post dropper. Bike weighs exactly 36.5 lbs. Tektro Brakes are great and bike shifts perfectly front and rear.
> 
> ...


hartzpad,
I would trim the line and run it under the TT, cuz when u drop the post, you want the extra line/hose to drop along the seatpost tube just under the TT/ST junction. I don't know if your post is cable or hydraulically actuated, but don't cut it too short. Better to have too much line/hose....so measure twice, cut once. Oh, and if so inclined, add some frame saver tape to the areas where the line/hose will be rubbing to prevent frame chaffing.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

You have got to be f#cking kidding me. My scheduled delivery date just disappeared and now it says "delayed." I have never seen this happen in 25 years of getting UPS packages. wtf wtf twf

Count me in with the shacked up bikes. There is no reason mine would go near the winter wonderland of western NY so I am scratching my head and punching a pillow at the same time.

Mine is headed to Maine, so I wonder if all of these "missing" bike had a northeastern trajectory.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Well like Car_Nut said.. I am in the same boat... I got the SAME exact notification from UPS.. I am in new hampshire this is getting ridiculous


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

I'll get better photos later...

Sturgis 17.5 in orange... nice! No issues with any bits or pieces. Forgot to weigh it without pedals, but it's a hair over 36 lbs with my heavy flats. They're about a pound, so figure 35 lbs w/o them - pure stock. Room for weight trimming as others have mentioned.

The bike is larger than I expected when I ordered it. I'm 5'7" with a 30 in inseam and as pictured the seatpost is just a little high - and that's as far down as it goes! Will have to cut it down today. I'll also be rummaging through my parts bins looking for a shorter stem - as-is the cockpit is a little too roomy. After that I think it will be good. I'd definitely have thought harder about getting the small though if I'd realized how big the mediums were.


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## yeti575 (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm in Maine as well...got the same delayed message as you. I'd imagine (hope) weather is the main culprit.

Really want it for the snow (none in S Maine yet), so I'm no immediate rush, but I'm tiring of scheduling days off to meet the UPS guy only to be disappointed he wont show for one reason or another.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

Now I see that there are 17.5 Sturgis bikes available now, if BD overnighted one today it would beat the one that is probably pounded to sh!t anyway from so much time rattling around in the back of lost trailers. 

It should be noted that UPS customer service is in the category of non-existent. They fudged everything from taking an extra business day getting it out of Texas and somehow losing 50-foot box trailers yet they still basically tell you to pack sand and keep checking updates. They won't bump to saturday delivery even though it is their own fault. This zero accountability thing is just one of those byproducts of a psuedo free market where there is only two competitors for nearly everything. "Don't like us, go ahead, use the other guy. His service is exactly the same." 

Sorry.


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

> Sturgis 17.5 in orange... nice! No issues with any bits or pieces. Forgot to weigh it without pedals, but it's a hair over 36 lbs with my heavy flats. They're about a pound, so figure 35 lbs w/o them - pure stock. Room for weight trimming as others have mentioned.
> 
> The bike is larger than I expected when I ordered it. I'm 5'7" with a 30 in inseam and as pictured the seatpost is just a little high - and that's as far down as it goes! Will have to cut it down today. I'll also be rummaging through my parts bins looking for a shorter stem - as-is the cockpit is a little too roomy. After that I think it will be good. I'd definitely have thought harder about getting the small though if I'd realized how big the mediums were.


How is the stand-over?


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

radnur22 said:


> How is the stand-over?


The stand over on my xl is crazy high. 33.75 inches!

Would someone measure the stock aluminum fork axle-crown measurement when they have a moment please?










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

AndrewZorn said:


> So BikesDirect shipped me a SRAM X5 crankset instead of a Samox as a replacement... this is good news, assuming it fits... right? It isn't just a rebrand? It looks very similar and has the same number of teeth but I don't have the bike/original within reach right now.


The x5 crank will not fit if you plan on yang it as a two ring setup. In the small ring you will either have clearance issues with the frame or the chain will run rhe tire when I'm the big cog/small ring combo.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

burnedthetoast said:


> View attachment 940701
> 
> I'll get better photos later...
> 
> ...


That's my bike you bastard! I usually use the top-of-tire/trend-line-of-top-tube gauge to figure standover and that 17.5 doesn't look too big to me. By the numbers it is on par with both Specialized and Trek medium frames and I know that Specialized fits me well albeit with a short stem. On that note, the stem is really long by modern standards where the bike geometry is pretty modern (long front, short rear.)

I am probably the only lifeless dork that noticed (too many days off waiting to sign for missing packages) but the Boris Evil Brut bikes are even longer with around a 35mm longer wheelbase, longer stays, and even longer reach.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Bd clearly "saved a few bucks" by specing all these bikes with orphaned and ancient long stems. It's possible a manufacturer gave it to them for free just to get it off their books/inventory. 

I'm any case, this was a known factor given the specs they listed. Frame geo was almost identical to a fatboy, but they were specing stems that were 30-50mm longer.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

trailwerks said:


> The stand over on my xl is crazy high. 33.75 inches!
> 
> Would someone measure the stock aluminum fork axle-crown measurement when they have a moment please?
> 
> ...


That is what the BD quoted standover is. They take the measurement over the BB though so it would make sense that you are about a half-inch over especially when combined with the Bluto.

If you lower your Bluto by 10 or 20mm you should be right there with the rigid fork. It is real easy to lower Rock Shox forks. I actually still have two 5mm lowering tokens from a Sektor I used to have if you want them. The Bluto is essentially the same internals as a Sektor TK.

You can also drop this right into your Bluto for much better and more adjustable compression damping. Bikeman RockShox MoCo RLT DNA for MY10-Current Revel Crown LO


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

silvbullit said:


> You have got to be f#cking kidding me. My scheduled delivery date just disappeared and now it says "delayed." I have never seen this happen in 25 years of getting UPS packages. wtf wtf twf
> 
> Mine is headed to Maine, so I wonder if all of these "missing" bike had a northeastern trajectory.





manchvegas said:


> Well like Car_Nut said.. I am in the same boat... I got the SAME exact notification from UPS.. I am in new hampshire this is getting ridiculous





yeti575 said:


> I'm in Maine as well...got the same delayed message as you. I'd imagine (hope) weather is the main culprit.


They're all headed to the northeast distribution hub on the same truck. When mine didn't show arrival from MO by noon yesterday I knew it wasn't hitting my driveway until next week. My shipments will typically go through a hub in CT or Chelmsford MA before heading to my local hub.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

neons97 said:


> Bd clearly "saved a few bucks" by specing all these bikes with orphaned and ancient long stems. It's possible a manufacturer gave it to them for free just to get it off their books/inventory.
> 
> I'm any case, this was a known factor given the specs they listed. Frame geo was almost identical to a fatboy, but they were specing stems that were 30-50mm longer.


Could be. I will say that BD has always spec'd out their MTB's with roadie like fit. Very long stems and setback posts go on everything. They're crap parts either way and I consider them to be shipping fasteners more than functional anyway.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

pearsth said:


> Since the trend seems to be to break away from the massive and hard to read/hard to follow generic Moto fat bikes thread, I figured I would start one for the Sturgis & Night Train.
> 
> I have a Night Train Bullet on order. Looking forward to it showing up, unfortunately, the reciept I have shows a ship date of 11/05. Other folks had ones earlier in October.
> 
> ...


Well, this thread has come completely unraveled. I can appreciate that everyone's patience is at the limit after waiting for ~3 months for a bike, but can we minimize the UPS shipping progress updates and get back to pictures, reviews, upgrades, build issues, etc.?
I just ordered mine - due in Feb. - and I'd much rather see everyone else's build and ride pix than anything else.

I probably won't change anything except maybe the stem. I'll give it a solid, multi-season test ride before I go fiddling with it unless something is just glaringly intolerable. A Winter camo paintjob might happen sooner than later, though.

Now, stoke me with some pix! 

Thanks,
-F


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Fleas said:


> Well, this thread has come completely unraveled. I can appreciate that everyone's patience is at the limit after waiting for ~3 months for a bike, but can we minimize the UPS shipping progress updates and get back to pictures, reviews, upgrades, build issues, etc.?


Trust me. I'd much rather be posting pic's of the trail and my bike  I've been quite calm awaiting for my NT arrival. Surely you can imagine the frustration though when I had a delivery scheduled for today, cleared my afternoon schedule to pick it from the hub, and visions of riding it all weekend. Given the fact that it ships "signature required" and the historical damage with shipping a bike, I'd guess most others made similar arrangements to receive it. As for those who have already received theirs, I'm guessing they're too busy riding to mess around on the computer like me


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

Fleas said:


> Now, stoke me with some pix!


How to fill the 150/197 space on my NTB;


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

What tape or ribbon did you use? I also went with orange accents, but haven't spotted an ideal tape yet.


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## Ohfugit (Jul 10, 2009)

Minor stuff so far. grips, suspension-seatpost / seat, tubes and rimstrips 
Impressed with the Guide brakes. Quiet and have a lot of feel to them.


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

AllMountin' said:


> What tape or ribbon did you use? I also went with orange accents, but haven't spotted an ideal tape yet.


Florescent Orange Duct Tape from WallyWorld


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

car_nut said:


> Trust me. I'd much rather be posting pic's of the trail and my bike  I've been quite calm awaiting for my NT arrival. Surely you can imagine the frustration though when I had a delivery scheduled for today, cleared my afternoon schedule to pick it from the hub, and visions of riding it all weekend. Given the fact that it ships "signature required" and the historical damage with shipping a bike, I'd guess most others made similar arrangements to receive it. As for those who have already received theirs, I'm guessing they're too busy riding to mess around on the computer like me


I feel for you. I did a BD order once before and I chased it around for a week before I had to drive to the depot to pick it up. I even blocked the street with my truck to stop the UPS truck because I thought he'd already been to my house, but it wasn't even on board.
...but you're bringin' me down. 

I like the look of the Buds and Lous, but how "bad" are SnowShoes? They _look_ pretty good.

-F


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

Fleas said:


> Well, this thread has come completely unraveled. I can appreciate that everyone's patience is at the limit after waiting for ~3 months for a bike, but can we minimize the UPS shipping progress updates and get back to pictures, reviews, upgrades, build issues, etc.?
> I just ordered mine - due in Feb. - and I'd much rather see everyone else's build and ride pix than anything else.
> 
> I probably won't change anything except maybe the stem. I'll give it a solid, multi-season test ride before I go fiddling with it unless something is just glaringly intolerable. A Winter camo paintjob might happen sooner than later, though.
> ...


On one hand, I agree with you. I would love for this to be a tech resource for the Nightrain/Sturgis frames. On the other hand, however, 33.3% of the itemized list of questions mentions the ship date. The shipping date and arrival schedule issues are absolutely related to the marketability of these bikes and whether or not someone would want to buy one in the first place.

The latest quoted ship date by BD was 11/12 and many of the bikes did not make that date and many more have not yet arrived. It is now the 21st and some bikes have STILL not arrived. Someone ordering a Nighttrain Bullet right now has a quoted ship date of February 16 at the latest. By the current precedent timeline, that puts the arrival date into March for those looking to pre-order. For myself, and many others that is nearing the end of the winter season when I start dreaming of dirt trails and it would be a definite no-go. I would buy something else that I do not have to wait so long for.

As far as the thread being a resource for people looking in to purchasing the bike, the wait is an integral part of that decision (unfortunately) and the issues that have arisen surrounding the shipping in general deserve some mention.

To do it all over I would have gotten an On One fatty for the $1300 price they had before winter was well on its way.

Now as soon as this forsaken bike arrives I promise I will post some useful tech and pic heavy goodness for the frothing MTBR masses.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

sorry for all the misery you folks who are awaiting shipment... below is a link to a video of a ride last night.

large sturgis bullet totally stock.
specialized fatboy with bluto and dillingers studded
Pug with Nates
and a Boris x9 with on one floaters.

it was close to 15 degrees, the hiking trail had iced up from foot prints and only 3 inches of rather dry, unpackable snow, so things could go sideways quick.

so far even stock... things with the sturgis are sweet, shifting fine, brakes not screaming, I am sure the studded dillingers likely the best tire of the group. but no issues with the stock snowshoes keeping up with them or the nates or floaters...

the true test will come on packed snow,, that can be a whole different ballgame.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Fleas said:


> I feel for you. I did a BD order once before and I chased it around for a week before I had to drive to the depot to pick it up. I even blocked the street with my truck to stop the UPS truck because I thought he'd already been to my house, but it wasn't even on board.
> ...but you're bringin' me down.
> 
> -F


  I'm dying over here!!! That's fantastic! I hear what you're saying though. Given that I took the day off, I just bundled my son up in three layers and we did yard laps on his strider bike. I feel much better now 

The Snowshoes seem to have mixed reviews like any other tire. Some like 'em some don't. Personally I'm going to wait until at least next season before I think about different tires. There's obviously a bunch of movement in this area with a bunch of new tires coming out. I imagine selection and pricing will improve significantly over the next year or two.


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

radnur22 said:


> How is the stand-over?


Not an awful lot of extra room for me, but not significantly worse than my medium Niner EMD.


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

Fleas said:


> I like the look of the Buds and Lous, but how "bad" are SnowShoes? They _look_ pretty good.


I bought Bud & Lou to maximize my winter footprint. I'll be running SnowShoes the rest of the year!


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

neons97 said:


> Bd clearly "saved a few bucks" by specing all these bikes with orphaned and ancient long stems. It's possible a manufacturer gave it to them for free just to get it off their books/inventory.
> 
> I'm any case, this was a known factor given the specs they listed. Frame geo was almost identical to a fatboy, but they were specing stems that were 30-50mm longer.


Is it safe to say you got your bike neons97?


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## jazzer2 (Aug 14, 2006)

Since this is my first new bike in quite a while, I covered much of my white Sturgis with CLEAR Gorilla tape. I'd post a picture but you literally can't see the tape.

I covered most of the area where you would get contact with other bikes on a rack, and the bottom of the down tube. The only place I didn't cover yet is the Motobecane decals, I'm not sure if the tape can be safely removed without pulling off the decal, though because the decal is underneath a clear coat it should be fine.

The clear Gorilla tape is amazing, very thick and waterproof. I've had a piece on my shower floor for almost a year and its just starting to peel a bit.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

silvbullit said:


> ...The shipping date and arrival schedule issues are absolutely related to the marketability of these bikes and whether or not someone would want to buy one in the first place.
> ...


Agree. If you order one but can't get it, what's the point, right?

Not trying to scold anyone here. Just changing the focus.
Hopefully everyone will have one more thing to be thankful for next week.

-F


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Onestep4me said:


> I bought Bud & Lou to maximize my winter footprint. I'll be running SnowShoes the rest of the year!


Bud and Lou are a game changer for bikes that can handle the big tires. #1 upgrade to make.


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

Night Train is inbound along with a set of red Turbines, rings, stem and some red Bear Traps. That ought to be a good color combo. Why is it I feel more impatient now than when I was having to wait until January? Now I want it to snow!...SC


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## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

I took my NTB up into the woods not far from me tonight, for it's first off-road maiden voyage. Didn't really go too far, perhaps a mile and a half round trip. But it was kind of cool to see what this fat bike is all about.

It was dark and cold out, but you folks are inspiring me to be badass about it. I snapped on some lights and some layers of clothing, and went about it. After only a few minutes, I warmed right up.

As people have recommended, I'm going to have to experiment with the tire pressure. As near as I can tell, I have both tires pumped up to about 10, and I feel what some have described as "Self Steer". Gonna back it off a little and see what happens.

Tomorrow is my first real ride on proper trails. Looking forward to it.

Annoying Discovery: I bought fat bike adapters for my bike rack thru etrailer.com. Fat Tire Adapter Kit for Hollywood Racks Sport Rider and Trail Rider Bike Racks Hollywood Racks Accessories and Parts HRSPRWH-F
Today I discovered I had two of the exact same rack components, not a left and a right like the pic in the etrailer catalog link. Sorting that out now thru their customer service. You can see on the attached image how poorly the bike sits on the rack on my car: front tire's in the incorrect downward facing rack, rear tire is correct upward facing rack.


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

I got mine assembled up with some changes and personal touches.

Diety Black Market Bars in Prurple
Deity seatpost clamp in purple
Race face 30t nw in purple
Kore repute 50mm stem
Shimano SLX Brakes w/203mm front rotor
One-up 42 tooth and 16t
Specialized seatpost and Henge Saddle off my Stumpy
Ergon GE1 grips 
Q-tubes standard 2.7's
Reflective tape rimstrips with backing of clear duct tape
Time Pedals
Arundel bottle cages with purple bolts

That's about it for now.









Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

jazzer2 said:


> Since this is my first new bike in quite a while, I covered much of my white Sturgis with CLEAR Gorilla tape. I'd post a picture but you literally can't see the tape.
> 
> I covered most of the area where you would get contact with other bikes on a rack, and the bottom of the down tube. The only place I didn't cover yet is the Motobecane decals, I'm not sure if the tape can be safely removed without pulling off the decal, though because the decal is underneath a clear coat it should be fine.
> 
> The clear Gorilla tape is amazing, very thick and waterproof. I've had a piece on my shower floor for almost a year and its just starting to peel a bit.


I do the same thing except I use the 3M "clearbra" tape that they use on the front of cars out west to prevent rock chips. It feels like 1mm thick vinyl but with a little more flex. I usually also wrap the drive side chainstay with cut up spent tube to keep chain slap away.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

clark4131 said:


> Night Train is inbound along with a set of red Turbines, rings, stem and some red Bear Traps. That ought to be a good color combo. Why is it I feel more impatient now than when I was having to wait until January? Now I want it to snow!...SC


I got the red turbines too - badass for sure - look good with the red rim strips 

Bad thing was - went out today to my fav trail which was nicely covered in super packed down snow. Ride was almost the best I've ever had - was sooooo happy. Bud and Lou perform 11/10 and couldn't have asked for more. Or could I.

About 45 minutes into my ride I hit a pretty big stick which proceeded to flip over, go into my rear spokes, take out 3 of them and ripped the valve off the tire. Daaaaaaaammmmmmittttt!

Anyway, replaced the spokes, got a new tube, and am still shaking my head.

Ah well, all in a days work. Avoid sticks though.


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

Stick no good for spokes! Sounds like a freak accident. We have storm clouds moving in and Tahoe is expecting snow. I have a tracking number so now I'm totally jonesing! One question...BD's pic shows 4.7 Snowshoes, but the spec sheet lists 4.5's. So which is it?..SC


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

fripp said:


> I got the red turbines too - badass for sure - look good with the red rim strips
> 
> Bad thing was - went out today to my fav trail which was nicely covered in super packed down snow. Ride was almost the best I've ever had - was sooooo happy. Bud and Lou perform 11/10 and couldn't have asked for more. Or could I.
> 
> ...


I spewed diet mt dew as I read this lmao


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

gurleyman said:


> I spewed diet mt dew as I read this lmao


Glad I can provide some much needed comic relief. Need that IPA even more though now. Last Sunday an old guy wanted to get into the grocery line ahead of me with his one item. My kids were on their last legs and I told him no. He was pretty surprised and said thanks sarcastically and walked off to another cash. Anyway the bad karma I earned that day got me a broken crank later that day and now this BS stick in the spokes. Also sucked walking 3 miles with a fatbike on my back. Lesson learned. Be nice to old dudes with one item.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

clark4131 said:


> Stick no good for spokes! Sounds like a freak accident. We have storm clouds moving in and Tahoe is expecting snow. I have a tracking number so now I'm totally jonesing! One question...BD's pic shows 4.7 Snowshoes, but the spec sheet lists 4.5's. So which is it?..SC


I was concerned at first too. But they are both freaking big so no worries. That said they are 4.5


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

clark4131 said:


> Stick no good for spokes! Sounds like a freak accident. We have storm clouds moving in and Tahoe is expecting snow. I have a tracking number so now I'm totally jonesing! One question...BD's pic shows 4.7 Snowshoes, but the spec sheet lists 4.5's. So which is it?..SC


They are the original Snowshoes....which really measure out to 4.25
They are a very good tire


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I have 2 small kids and I would have done the same thing. Melting down kids is no fun for anyone.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

My new cockpit setup. 760mm/2" riser w/40mm stem. New Spank Spikes. And a matching clamp. Feels right to me.

The Snowshoe rear coupled with this geo just works. I was amazed by the traction on a steep, snow covered, grass hill. I could go wherever I wanted on it. Like a goat, I was.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Finally got my NTB out for a real ride. All I can say is this thing was totally worth the wait. It is a ton of fun...is an understatement. It's been wet here the last day or so and it made for some amazing hero dirt and perfect weather to get out for the debut ride.

*Impressions:* 
Rides real smooth. TONS of traction and rolls over everything. Where I was riding there is a mix of terrain--rock gardens, roots, singletrack, decomposed granite trail, etc. The NTB handled it all really well. Almost like cheating with all the traction I got from the super fat tires :thumbsup:.

*The Bluto* rocks as well. I came from riding a rigid (Al frame/steel fork) and this was an entirely new world. I was trying lines I wouldn't think of attempting on the rigid. It is smooth.

*Climbing* was easy, even for it's weight. I didn't feel it was significantly more sluggish than my previous bike. The front end did want to try and come off the ground on some steep stuff once in a while. I could stand and climb stuff pretty comfortably. Very stable bike.

For all the "long chainstay" chatter that has gone on about this (and the Framed Alaskan Carbon), *the front end was not hard to loft over obstacles*. *This thing moves*...it was fun hopping off of/over stuff. This bike will encourage you to take the more challenging line and begs to get some air under those big fat hoops.

With all the traction and huge tires, *it is a forgiving ride*...bad lines aren't as bad as they could be and some obstacles are less difficult to ride. In a way, I'm glad I spend the last 4 years on a rigid practicing selecting good lines and working on technique before getting this thing. If I started out my MTB experience on one of these I might never have learned how to pick a line...just point and shoot :cornut: roll over everything :eekster:.

I couldn't stop smiling all ride...and long after. Can't wait to get back out on the trails. Forecast calls for rain tomorrow but Sunday should be good for another ride.

*Mods so far:* Salsa Bend Bars, Bud/Lou on i9 hubs (that buzz tho :thumbsup::thumbsup and MuleFut rims--tubeless w/Stan's and tape (build by mikesee), grips, Fizik Gobi saddle, clipless pedals, Easton 65mm stem, seatpost from my Rockhopper 29er (shorter and lighter than the BD one).


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

gurleyman said:


> Is it safe to say you got your bike neons97?


Sad to say that I don't have my bike yet. I got a "green" status yesterday on my tracking. Called in just to confirm as it was a day early especially given the Buffalo weather. The agent confirmed it was physically there. I jumped for joy, took the day off work today and was all ready to hop across the border today to pick it up.

At 3am eastern time (local time) a UPS update came through and said my shipment was "delayed due to unforeseen weather". I call at 8am when I am up and they tell me my bike isnt actually at the depot and is still on a truck. I had to escalate three times before a manager broke down and told me that the last scan for the truck was Buffalo, but that it was stuck in the snow and wasn't going to be at the depot today.

I spent 45 minutes basically yelling at all three levels that i spoke with and demanded an answer as to why it was confirmed yesterday that it was physically at the depot and all 3am, it wasn't. It took them a while but they tracked the exact time I got the "green light email" and my phone call time and said that the agent read the electronic scan and mistook it for a physical scan. She explained that when a truck approaches the depot it generates an electronic scan. And when they uphaycially unload, it creates a physical scan. Well something triggered the e-scan. But when there was no physical scan that day, the system defaults to a "delay" status. Hence the 3am txt.

After 45 minutes minutes to get to this conclusion, I asked what they would do to compensate me fory day off. I told them they could either send it to me overnight to canada, or cover my lost salary for a vacation day.

After 5 minutes, she came back and said she couldn't send to canada as they don't own the package and cannot export. Also, they couldn't cover my whole days salary (the amount I gave them), but would offer me $150 usd as a compromise. I accepted.

Because of weather, the truck took a detour to the Syracuse hub. As the i90 to Buffalo is still closed. And will be transferred to the Buffalo hub on Monday. Now...you would think the end is near...but Buffalo is expected to flood seriously this weekend with the 7ft of snow melting under the warm 40-50 degree weather forecasted this weekend. So whether I get my bike on Monday is still anyone's guess.

I'm thinking this is my first and last internet order bike. With all these delays, I could've been riding a fatbike months ago. With the $1200 that bd has been sitting on for 4 months now and the $400 in parts I spent collecting while waiting for this thing, I couldve invested it and paid for a similar (lesser spec) model at a lbs by now.

I love Internet parts shopping. But this experience has clearly taught me that Internet bicycle purchase isn't for me.


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Picked







Picked up my 17.5" NT from the ups hub and everything looked good opening up the box. Bike assembled with ease and I took it out for a ride around the block to shake it out and seat the pads. 
For now I put a short stem on and changed the saddle. 
Bike fit me perfect as I was a little worried about it being too big but With my long reach and at 5'7", the medium fits perfect. The measurements matched my Ibis except for a longer top tube and going with a 60mm stem and 5 degree risoe made the cockpit a comfortable fit. That stock stem is ridiculously long. 
Stand over height was fine with the rigid stock fork still installed. 
We'll see how the stand over is once I get it in some snow. 
I have a Bluto, carbon bars, And some other goodies to put on and plan on getting a new crank after deciding whether to go 1X. 
24" tubes for using splitube tubeless are in the plans also. 
I plan on riding it in the stock setup and then upgrade a few things at a time to feel the difference.
It was a lot of fun just going around the block and I can't wait to get it out on the trails.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Never had a chain break yet but whats a good replacement link and or tools that you pack on a ride for the KMC X10SL SUPER LIGHT that comes on the NT? Does the link have to be specific to this brand of chain?


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

Please keep us updated on size and stand over! The measurements put me between small and medium based on other bikes I ride, but the standover ultimately made me choose the small. Would love to hear people's arguments for/against going smaller (w/ longer stem) vs. larger (w/ shorter stem) specifically on a year-round fat bike. 

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

Higgins17 said:


> Please keep us updated on size and stand over! The measurements put me between small and medium based on other bikes I ride, but the standover ultimately made me choose the small. Would love to hear people's arguments for/against going smaller (w/ longer stem) vs. larger (w/ shorter stem) specifically on a year-round fat bike.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bullet vs rigid makes a huge difference in standover height. I'm 5'11" with 33" inseam and usually ride size Large bikes, my Stugis Bullet medium 17.5" has just enough standover height but I believe a Large 19" would have been to big for me.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

hartzpad said:


> Bullet vs rigid makes a huge difference in standover height. I'm 5'11" with 33" inseam and usually ride size Large bikes, my Stugis Bullet medium 17.5" has just enough standover height but I believe a Large 19" would have been to big for me.


Sounds like I made the right choice with the small. A couple of members have noted that they are my height and on a medium, but if you're at "just enough standover" on a Medium, and I am 30" inseam that makes me feel a lot more comfortable about my decision to go small.

Anyone disagree?

P.S. - Loving the posts of the new bikes! It's making me envious and I have 3 months to wait! (if anyone wants to sell their 15.5" NTB, let me know! (though it doesn't sound promising judging by all of the great reviews!))


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

MaximumX said:


> Oh boy... I see there's a purple 17.5 NT available on the site. Last one, too. If my Lurch was purple it'd be a whole lot easier to sneak the NT into the garage.
> 
> Stupid yellow Lurch...


BAH!!! Finally broke down and was going to pull the trigger... But someone beat me to it! Oh well, I'll settle for some Lurch-Love for a few months or until something shinier catches my eye. ;-)


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## mtbfreedom (Nov 19, 2014)

*Night Train with many modifications.*













I have been riding my Small Night Train for about 13 hrs in and I am very satisfied. I have made quite a few modifications.


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## mtbfreedom (Nov 19, 2014)

It is full xtr with a race face turbine crank. The seat post is a Thomson set back and the handlebar is a raceface carbon. I also added a Ritchey WCS stem and a Ritchey Streem saddle.


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## mtbfreedom (Nov 19, 2014)

Another pic.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

That looks fantastic! :thumbsup:


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Higgins17 said:


> Sounds like I made the right choice with the small. A couple of members have noted that they are my height and on a medium, but if you're at "just enough standover" on a Medium, and I am 30" inseam that makes me feel a lot more comfortable about my decision to go small.
> 
> Anyone disagree?
> 
> P.S. - Loving the posts of the new bikes! It's making me envious and I have 3 months to wait! (if anyone wants to sell their 15.5" NTB, let me know! (though it doesn't sound promising judging by all of the great reviews!))


I've been riding a Boris X9 size 17M for the past several months. I am 5' 7 1/2" with a 31" inseam with my shoes on. Stand over on the Boris 17M is 27.875". Just yesterday, I had a close call while pedaling up a muddy hill, I lost traction and had to take my feet off the pedals. Needless to say, my feet landed on the down side of the muddy hill, but I still had enough clearance. After reading a few reports of owners that are around my height and like inseam and the stand over of the 17.5" Sturgis Bullet at 29.45" (difference of 1.575") I ordered a 17.5" Sturgis Bullet. After reading a more recent post, I changed my order to a 15.5" Sturgis Bullet which has a stand over of 27.897" which is almost identical to my current Boris. The stem plus the TT is 682mm for the 17M Boris and 665.28" for the 15.5" Sturgis. That's only a difference of 16.72mm. Which will probably work better for me because I was thinking about getting a shorter stem for my Boris, so I am not so forward in my riding position. Long story made short, I do not disagree :thumbsup:


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## mtbfreedom (Nov 19, 2014)

Thanks. I just finished adding 240 studs, a red seatpost clamp, red screws and and red spacers and stem top. I think I am done.


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## mtbfreedom (Nov 19, 2014)

I primarily ride tight single track in a twisty hill valley. I have a Tomac Carbide SL and Kona Explosif. I was worried about trying to get my Night Train moving in those high speed super technical corners with scrub oak trees at every corner waiting to make you pay if loose a line. No worries. The Night Train is extremely capable in the fast tight trail. Comparing it to a 9 zero 7 I rode its geometry seems much more similar to my other bikes.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

radnur22 said:


> I've been riding a Boris X9 size 17M for the past several months. I am 5' 7 1/2" with a 31" inseam with my shoes on. Stand over on the Boris 17M is 27.875". Just yesterday, I had a close call while pedaling up a muddy hill, I lost traction and had to take my feet off the pedals. Needless to say, my feet landed on the down side of the muddy hill, but I still had enough clearance. After reading a few reports of owners that are around my height and like inseam and the stand over of the 17.5" Sturgis Bullet at 29.45" (difference of 1.575") I ordered a 17.5" Sturgis Bullet. After reading a more recent post, I changed my order to a 15.5" Sturgis Bullet which has a stand over of 27.897" which is almost identical to my current Boris. The stem plus the TT is 682mm for the 17M Boris and 665.28" for the 15.5" Sturgis. That's only a difference of 16.72mm. Which will probably work better for me because I was thinking about getting a shorter stem for my Boris, so I am not so forward in my riding position. Long story made short, I do not disagree :thumbsup:


Yeah, it's a conundrum because I think I'm more of a fan of 60mm-70mm stems on my XC bikes. I'm working under the assumption that a stem on the slightly longer side will be better for an all season fat bike that will be used in mud/snowy conditions. (someone correct me if I am wrong here).

I know when I shortened the stem to 50mm on my Stumpjumper 29", the steering definitely became faster, but I definitely lost some of the "steamroller" effect which helped when cranking through rock gardens and root sections that I feel were easier with a 75mm stem. Not that I can't still clear the sections, but I just have to put in a bit more effort to keep from being thrown around by the terrain.


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## mtbfreedom (Nov 19, 2014)

The frame is super solid. There is no hint of lateral frame flex with hard low rpm standing pedaling. The brakes are super powerful compared to my XTR brakes on my other bikes but have a little less modulation. The through axle and 1.5 lower headset make the front end steer with precision with no hint of flex or vagueness.


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## mtbfreedom (Nov 19, 2014)

In response to your stem length post I have a rather unorthodox set up. I chose to get a 100mm stem and purchase a 620 mmm handlebar. The longer stem increases torque control and slows down steering but the shorter handle bar quickens steering response and fits between all our narrow trail oak trees.


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## mtbfreedom (Nov 19, 2014)

This also increase the effective top tube length and provides me with a larger cockpit to move around during steep climbs.


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## Ohfugit (Jul 10, 2009)

mtbfreedom said:


> View attachment 940978
> I have been riding my Small Night Train for about 13 hrs in and I am very satisfied. I have made quite a few modifications.


Good looking bike!. Would you give me some details on the crankset? I was barely caught up before and all this fatbike stuff has me confused. I don't really know what fits a 190 rear spacing frame


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Higgins17 said:


> Please keep us updated on size and stand over! The measurements put me between small and medium based on other bikes I ride, but the standover ultimately made me choose the small. Would love to hear people's arguments for/against going smaller (w/ longer stem) vs. larger (w/ shorter stem) specifically on a year-round fat bike.
> 
> Thanks!


I went with the med (17.5") NTB. I am 5'7" and have a 29" inseam. Standover has been fine. I switched to a 65mm stem, no-rise bars and like the fit. I am more of a long torso/short legs guy so wanted the longer cockpit.

I am coming off a bike that was very comfortable for me and matched up the fit numbers to the NTB the best I could to mimic that position. If you need a lower, more aggressive position, I would suggest going with the 15.5" small to get lower on the front.

I live in NorCal so this is a year-round trail bike. Probably won't see a lick of snow during it's lifespan :skep:.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

*Internal routing for Dropper?*

I took my cranks off of my NTB, removed the BB, and installed the RaceFace Turbine Cinch. Before I did, I noticed these two holes. Anyone think a dropper could be routed internally and come out of a port at the junction of the downtube and head tube? It's a little hard to see but there is a hole coming from the seat tube and there is another hole going into the downtube.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Since I had a defective x7 rear shifter, I went ahead and replaced it with an x9 shifter. I must say that to me there is a dramatic difference. The x9 shifter paired with the x9 derailleur is spot on. It rivals my XT setup on my 29er. I felt that the x7 was sluggish and difficult to set up. The x9 on the other hand was dead simple to set up and performs flawlessly. I would recommend going to x9 shifter if anyone is unhappy with the performance of the rear shifting. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

It's too tight of a bend, would require a ridiculous amount of cable, and most of that space should be filled by the tube connecting your BB cups. But if you want to try it, let us know how it goes.


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## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

I took my NTB on my first real ride today. I did just under 11 miles in Kitattiny State Park, up in Andover NJ. Rode with a couple of buddies on standard bikes, on familiar trails. The trails were dry, no snow, some compacted dried leaves. A few small muddy spots. A few crusty spots of ice. And a few spots where prior freezing/expansion created a bid of a mud shell that collapsed as we drove over it.. 32 degrees and sunny.

No surprise, but my buddies did a bit of waiting for me. Usually you buy things that makes you a faster rider. Well, a fat bike isn't one of them. LOL. Pushing all that weight around is a good amount of work. I found myself walking up a few hills that I normally don't. One part fat bike, one part falling out of physical shape... It's been a month since I've done any Mt biking and I've already put on a few lbs.

Felt great to be out though, and I loved that I was outside getting some exercise in the cold, and not watching TV. I bought this fatbike because it "can extend my season". Now I'm obligated to live up to that. A very very good thing.

One minor mishap: Upon attacking a hill, I down-shifted my rear derailleur. The chain got wedged between the spoke guard and the largest chain ring. A little bit of an ordeal to get that sorted out. I adjusted the upper limit set screw and it didn't happen again, although later in the ride I had a ghost shift or two. I might have to put my derailleur tool to the derailleur hanger though, just as a sanity check. Possible minor bending in shipping that i didn't notice before? Note to self: Buy a spare hanger.

I started out with about 12 PSI in both tires. Let some air out later in the ride, to see if it changed anything. There were subtle differences, with lower pressure being preferred (I think), but the jury's still out on what pressure is best for me.

As a Clydesdale rider, I moved away from hardtail bikes about 8 years ago and have been FullX ever since. Hardtails just seemed to beat me up too much around here. I have to admit that when I pulled the trigger on the NTB, I wondered if I had made a mistake by not waiting for a much lighter, FullX Fatbike. But I did it anyway out of complete and total impatience. I wanted a fatbike NOW!!! THIS SEASON, not next!! On today's ride, I very much noticed I was on a hardtail and very much noticed the bike's weight. Yet, I thoroughly enjoyed this completely new riding experience. I do foresee a lighter, FullX fatbike in my future someday, once they evolve some more and come down in price. Glad I got the Bluto fork though. Really glad!! Had I NOT had the shock fork, no doubt I'd be shopping for the upgrade right now.

As predicted, it took a little while to "do the dance" with the new ride. Not quite used to the SRAM shifters, but as the ride progressed, I started to make peace with 'em. But eventually my confidence grew on technical sections and ascents. A couple of trails stops here and there necessary to adjust seat, etc. Be advised, your standard Metrix Hex set doesn't cover all the bolts here, specifically on the SRAM shifters/brakes. You need a few star shaped bits as well.

So overall, I had a lot of fun. I love riding this bike. It's so...different!! I agree with the often repeated fatbike review: "made me feel like a kid again".

After the ride, I jumped on my buddy's 27.5 Giant Anthem X. In comparison, it felt cheap and squirrely, like a pogo stick. LOL.

OK, that's it for me for a while. Heading down to FL for a week, so no biking till Dec for me. Please have a happy and safe Thanksgiving everyone. Thanks for all of your advice and inspiration here. And here's to hoping all the outstanding deliveries, transactions and issues reported here get resolved quickly.


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

Cool to see another fat biker so close. This is my first one and took out for a little shake down ride at hilltop near caldwell.

Was way fun. I started with 11 psi in rear and will mess with it more. Going to order a good low psi gauge. I weigh 220 without a pack.

My regular bike is a carbon FSR Stumpy 29er. Set this up with same reach etc. one thing I'm liking is the higher bottom bracket with all the downed trees. This is easier to go over than the stumpy.

Defiantly feel the weight vs the stumpy.

Anyways her it is. Xl bullet with some mods










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

Nice! If you're looking for local fat biking partners, let me know. There's some great parks a little west of here.


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

Has anyone done a crankset replacement using a crank for a 170 rear end and a single ring? It looks like there is clearance. Don't know if it would with a bigger tire though. 


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

My NTB, stock except for the cockopit and rim strips!


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

NH Mtbiker said:


> My NTB, stock except for the cockopit and rim strips!


What are you using for rim strips?


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

fripp said:


> What are you using for rim strips?


Red "Danger" caution tape - 3 passes around
5 1/2 inch foundation insulation - cut down to inner rim width

Using this setup with Q tubes 2.7's front and rear, no sealant.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Why do you need the foundation stuff?


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## gurleyman (Oct 21, 2014)

neons97 said:


> Sad to say that I don't have my bike yet. I got a "green" status yesterday on my tracking. Called in just to confirm as it was a day early especially given the Buffalo weather. The agent confirmed it was physically there. I jumped for joy, took the day off work today and was all ready to hop across the border today to pick it up.
> 
> At 3am eastern time (local time) a UPS update came through and said my shipment was "delayed due to unforeseen weather". I call at 8am when I am up and they tell me my bike isnt actually at the depot and is still on a truck. I had to escalate three times before a manager broke down and told me that the last scan for the truck was Buffalo, but that it was stuck in the snow and wasn't going to be at the depot today.
> 
> ...


Shaking my head at UPS and some seriously crumby luck. If your bike had only NOT been on the customs container it would have made it before the storm. Grrrrr


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

fripp said:


> Why do you need the foundation stuff?


The caution tape alone is much too thin, even wrapped 3 times around. The insulation acts as an added layer to protect the tube from punctures.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

NH Mtbiker said:


> The caution tape alone is much too thin, even wrapped 3 times around. The insulation acts as an added layer to protect the tube from punctures.


The foam won't do anything. It compresses to nothing after inflation. I rolled plastic packing tape onto my caution tape to make our stronger then did 2 passes. It might work for your, but something to think about.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Did the first ride. As it sits bike is 33.3 pounds (w/pedals and cages). I like the low gears, but I think I'm going to end up with 1x10 to simplify things. 
Anyway, it was great fun but a ton of work. 25 miles, but only 1500 feet. Learning how to take advantage of traction and momentum will be crucial. Super fun little ride though!


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Few more pics from my first ride on my NTB.

And one where it is in "street mode" as it'll be my commuter as well...pardon the shaky cell phone shot, bad lighting, and the messy garage. Running Surly Black Floyds/stock 80mm rims/Surly Lite Tubes with Stan's for the roads.

Weighed it via the bathroom scale method tonight and in "trail mode" with the tubeless wheelset and Bud/Lou (as shown in the pics above) it is 30lbs.

Gonna try and get another ride in tomorrow. I am very impressed so far with what I got for my money with BD.

Bike is stiff (frame as well as having TA front and rear), handles well, is well made and the customer service has been pretty good from BD...parts delays and customs issues not withstanding .

To those of you on the fence on whether to buy, I would highly recommend the NTB. Those of you still waiting...be patient as it was well worth the wait to me :thumbsup:.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

tfinator said:


> Did the first ride. As it sits bike is 33.3 pounds (w/pedals and cages). I like the low gears, but I think I'm going to end up with 1x10 to simplify things.
> Anyway, it was great fun but a ton of work. 25 miles, but only 1500 feet. Learning how to take advantage of traction and momentum will be crucial. Super fun little ride though!


Ugh...why is everyone so allergic to front derailleurs all of a sudden!? I can't be the only person doing technical uphills that are steep enough that you have to scoot weight forward to keep the front tire down and 30+mph pedally double-track in the same ride. I just don't get it. The spread just isn't enough with 1x. I would get the simplicity argument if front derailleurs were unreliable but they never fail so...fashion?

Also: the weights people are throwing out are all over the map.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

OnThaCouch said:


> Few more pics from my first ride on my NTB.
> 
> And one where it is in "street mode" as it'll be my commuter as well...pardon the shaky cell phone shot, bad lighting, and the messy garage. Running Surly Black Floyds/stock 80mm rims/Surly Lite Tubes with Stan's for the roads.
> 
> ...


I love the orange flair. I also love your bathroom scale because that means my rigid fatty could be sub-30 which would be like Pepto-Bismal to my customs/shipping debacle ulcer.

Are those commuter tires full slicks? I have some 2.something" urban slicks that I commuted with years ago that had absolutely amazing grip on dry pavement so I can't begin to imagine what the grip would be like with 3"+ slicks. It would be like having a mini-super-moto bike; I would be making braap sounds all over the city.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

silvbullit said:


> Ugh...why is everyone so allergic to front derailleurs all of a sudden!? I can't be the only person doing technical uphills that are steep enough that you have to scoot weight forward to keep the front tire down and 30+mph pedally double-track in the same ride. I just don't get it. The spread just isn't enough with 1x.
> 
> The weights people are throwing out are all over the map.


I agree. At least for where I ride, I want/need the option of the wider range of gears.

As for the weights, I think it is tough to keep track of all the info on everyone's rigs (weight of stock bike, mods, size of bike, etc.) to see if the weights are comparable.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

silvbullit said:


> I love the orange flair. I also love your bathroom scale because that means my rigid fatty could be sub-30 which would be like Pepto-Bismal to my customs/shipping debacle ulcer.
> 
> Are those commuter tires full slicks? I have some 2.something" urban slicks that I commuted with years ago that had absolutely amazing grip on dry pavement so I can't begin to imagine what the grip would be like with 3"+ slicks. It would be like having a mini-super-moto bike; I would be making braap sounds all over the city.


Thanks. I originally ordered a small in matte black and was setting up an orange and black theme.

I was surprised by the scale as well. Hoping it is close to true. In comparison to my rigid the NTB moves and climbs well. After riding the Bluto, I would pay the weight penalty to have the performance over a rigid in most conditions.

The commuter tires are Surly Black Floyds, 3.8 in. They have some tread patterning...not completely slick. In the quick spin around the neighborhood after installing them, they roll well and have pretty good grip.


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

My Night Train will be in the Friday after Thanksgiving and I want to get a Revelate Ranger frame bag. The bike is a 19" (Large), but I'm not sure of the frame dimensions. If anybody has a large and a tape measure, I'd sure appreciate some info on the inner dimensions of the main triangle. Many thanks...SC


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## mtbfreedom (Nov 19, 2014)

Race face turbine fat bike crankset comes in 170 mm and 190 mm configurations. Both of these fit a 100 mm shell but the 190 mm has a longer axel of a 120mm. They provide you two 10 mm spacers that are placed between the bearings and the crank arms. The Q factor is pretty high being 222.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

silvbullit said:


> Ugh...why is everyone so allergic to front derailleurs all of a sudden!? I can't be the only person doing technical uphills that are steep enough that you have to scoot weight forward to keep the front tire down and 30+mph pedally double-track in the same ride. I just don't get it. The spread just isn't enough with 1x. I would get the simplicity argument if front derailleurs were unreliable but they never fail so...fashion?
> 
> Also: the weights people are throwing out are all over the map.


 Allergic to front derailleurs...Nope....Fashion statement...Hardly

It all has to do with what works for you, where you ride, your riding style but mostly your conditioning. I switched to 1x a while back and at first found myself struggling on climbs I would normally make. But once I couldn't rely on my granny ring for those steep climbs it forced me to dig deep and grind it out. I struggled at first, had to hike a few times but soon after a while found myself making the climbs and making them faster. My legs got stronger. The smaller ring gives me better clearance so I am hitting less rocks and stuff. The cleaner cockpit with less clutter and fewer parts to adjust or break is a real advantage. With more chainrings your forced to think about gear combinations and where you need to be for the next climb. With 1x your just a click or two away if the going gets hard or a few clicks the other way for more speed. If I occasionally find myself spinning out at 25+ I stop peddling and enjoy catching my breath and coasting. With 1x I find myself riding less distracted and more in tune with my bike and the trail.

Simplicity = Peace of mind = more fun :thumbsup:


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

^+1. Or you could be lazy like me and have a 26 up front with a 42 in the back which has the same gear ratio as 22 front and 36 rear. I like to coast


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

took the sturgis bullet out on some snow covered singletrack and beach riding... there were four motobecanes.. a rigid sturgis among them,,, had a blast. still happy with the snowshoes but might be diy studding them up. I can tell you three slams down on the ice... don't worry bike is fine....


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

silvbullit said:


> Ugh...why is everyone so allergic to front derailleurs all of a sudden!? I can't be the only person doing technical uphills that are steep enough that you have to scoot weight forward to keep the front tire down and 30+mph pedally double-track in the same ride. I just don't get it. The spread just isn't enough with 1x. I would get the simplicity argument if front derailleurs were unreliable but they never fail so...fashion?
> 
> Also: the weights people are throwing out are all over the map.


Because we ride different terrain. I ride some very technical rocky climbs. Also fire roads getting well over 20%. My ht 26er is a 1x9 and I do most riding on that. When I am in s technical climb, having a lower gear would give me less power per stroke and pedaling more often would lead to pedal strikes. 
The majority of my MTB rides are 25 miles but 5k feet of climbing. I also have done up to 75mi, but flatter. I usually ride with friends on SS ht 29ers. 
If you're dropping into the 22x36 for all your climbs, then you frankly would not keep up with them.
I would say, worry about what you ride.
The simplicity argument is I don't like having to decide between chain rings. I bet you ride a 2x10- and not a 3... Cause that's more simple! Just think how much easier a 1 is...
The weight I posted is with changes to cockpit and running tubeless.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

silvbullit said:


> Ugh...why is everyone so allergic to front derailleurs all of a sudden!? I can't be the only person doing technical uphills that are steep enough that you have to scoot weight forward to keep the front tire down and 30+mph pedally double-track in the same ride. I just don't get it. The spread just isn't enough with 1x. I would get the simplicity argument if front derailleurs were unreliable but they never fail so...fashion?
> 
> Also: the weights people are throwing out are all over the map.


I too was considering the 1x switch, for simplicity's sake, but have since changed my mind. I have been in the very top gear and the very bottom gear on the same trail. Maybe, mayyyybe I could get away with a single front gear if I bought a new chainring... but I don't know if I want to actually _spend money_ to reduce complication. And this is coming from someone who hates gears enough that about half of my riding is on a sw8 fixay...

The weights people are throwing out are probably mostly derived from $20 bathroom scales that lack both precision and accuracy.


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

twright205 said:


> took the sturgis bullet out on some snow covered singletrack and beach riding... there were four motobecanes.. a rigid sturgis among them,,, had a blast. still happy with the snowshoes but might be diy studding them up. I can tell you three slams down on the ice... don't worry bike is fine....


Holy fat batman!!! Were there any skinnies out there? If so, how did they do?


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

AndrewZorn said:


> I too was considering the 1x switch, for simplicity's sake, but have since changed my mind. I have been in the very top gear and the very bottom gear on the same trail. Maybe, mayyyybe I could get away with a single front gear if I bought a new chainring... but I don't know if I want to actually _spend money_ to reduce complication. And this is coming from someone who hates gears enough that about half of my riding is on a sw8 fixay...
> 
> The weights people are throwing out are probably mostly derived from $20 bathroom scales that lack both precision and accuracy.


I would have to say that any recreational rider who mashes 36/11 on a trail for any reasonable amount of time to rule out 1x as an option is a beast...just sayin


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

So I got a NTB, but is isn't arriving until the second batch in February. I have a spare Reverb sitting around, do you guys recommend putting it onto the NTB or should I just sell it off?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

AndrewZorn said:


> The weights people are throwing out are probably mostly derived from $20 bathroom scales that lack both precision and accuracy.


Now why you gotta go out and dash our hopes like that .

I am sure that my Wal-Mart scale is spot on to a scientifically significant digit :thumbsup:...at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it...but now that you mention it, maybe it IS wrong and I'm NOT a cylde :skep:.


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## coot271 (Sep 15, 2010)

livewr06 said:


> View attachment 940929
> Picked
> View attachment 940928
> 
> ...


Can't wait to see it with the Bluto! I wish it came stock with the purple.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

AndrewZorn said:


> I too was considering the 1x switch, for simplicity's sake, but have since changed my mind. I have been in the very top gear and the very bottom gear on the same trail. Maybe, mayyyybe I could get away with a single front gear if I bought a new chainring... but I don't know if I want to actually _spend money_ to reduce complication. And this is coming from someone who hates gears enough that about half of my riding is on a sw8 fixay...
> 
> The weights people are throwing out are probably mostly derived from $20 bathroom scales that lack both precision and accuracy.


I've always been on the 'cusp' of wanting to do the 1x10 but was keeping the granny just in case. Then I said screw it and got a raceface 30T and did the switch. With the 36 that comes on these bikes, yeah, don't just drop the 22 and expect to stay 36 front 1x10 unless you are a seriously talented climber. But the 30T is much different and gets closer to the magic number provided by the 22/36 you get with the granny.

You also have to decide whats good for the trails you ride all the time. My close trails allow me to ride a 1x10 30/11-36 so its setup that way. I like losing that FD as no matter how many adjustments I seem to make to the high/low, i eventually get some chain rub on the FD and i HATE it! The 30T is a narrow wide and keeps the chain on without any drops, especially with the clutch RD.


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

silvbullit said:


> Ugh...why is everyone so allergic to front derailleurs all of a sudden!? I can't be the only person doing technical uphills that are steep enough that you have to scoot weight forward to keep the front tire down and 30+mph pedally double-track in the same ride. I just don't get it. The spread just isn't enough with 1x. I would get the simplicity argument if front derailleurs were unreliable but they never fail so...fashion?
> 
> Also: the weights people are throwing out are all over the map.


I made a comment like that on Pinkbike and just about got ran out of there. So many fanboys out there for 1X its crazy.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

I am a huge 1x supporter, but won't go there on a fatbike, as it is a self limiting decision. On a fair weather bike, you can stand and mash the steep hills with 1x. If it's that steep and sustained they you can't, it's **** riding anyway.

You can't stand and mash snowy steeps, and you can't power through deep, tackless powder. You have to sit and spin. There are situations where 26T is absolutely necessary, and rides where it's way too short. Either swap chainrings ride to ride, or accept the compromises. 

Show me a 1x crank that lets me run 26T and swap chainrings without removing a crank arm, and I'll reconsider.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

Cody01 said:


> I made a comment like that on Pinkbike and just about got ran out of there. So many fanboys out there for 1X its crazy.


It is because they spent money that they thought would make them faster but it made them push more and have less fun. Now they spent all this good money on shiny color-coordinated bits and can't bring themselves to return the bike to stock and the cognitive dissonance is bubbling over into comments and forums.

My buddys that have gone 1X have experienced dropped chains (with clutch derailleurs and narrow/wide chainrings) and end up pushing hills they used to ride. Some have switched back, some just ***** about the damn trail being too steep, some just ride less. No joke. If I ride the "hard" trails they go do something tamer. The one that refuses to go back to stock had to get a chain guide that looks like a front derailleur and when I noticed it and chuckled he said "shut up I know what you are going to say." I laughed harder. That is the case around here anyway.

"...If it's that steep and sustained they you can't, it's **** riding anyway." I flat out disagree. Steep up means steep down. Bugs in my teeth and all that happy feel-good sh!t. I refuse to shuttle but love to go downhill so there is only one way up and usually the fastest way is straight up. No pushing no matter how many videos show Patsies pushing.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

silvbullit said:


> It is because they spent money that they thought would make them faster but it made them push more and have less fun. Now they spent all this good money on shiny color-coordinated bits and can't bring themselves to return the bike to stock and the cognitive dissonance is bubbling over into comments and forums.
> 
> My buddys that have gone 1X have experienced dropped chains (with clutch derailleurs and narrow/wide chainrings) and end up pushing hills they used to ride. Some have switched back, some just ***** about the damn trail being too steep, some just ride less. No joke. If I ride the "hard" trails they go do something tamer. That is the case around here anyway.
> 
> "...If it's that steep and sustained they you can't, it's **** riding anyway." I flat out disagree. Steep up means steep down. Fun as **** bugs in my teeth and all that happy feel-good sh!t. I refuse to shuttle but love to go downhill so there is only one way up and usually the fastest way is straight up. No pushing no matter how many videos show Patsies pushing.


Somewhere on one of the BD threads someone actually said they walked up a hill instead of dropping into the small front ring (which they had on their bike at the time) then went on to post the merits of going 1x. Totally baffling.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

OnThaCouch said:


> Few more pics from my first ride on my NTB.
> 
> And one where it is in "street mode" as it'll be my commuter as well...pardon the shaky cell phone shot, bad lighting, and the messy garage. Running Surly Black Floyds/stock 80mm rims/Surly Lite Tubes with Stan's for the roads.
> 
> ...


I keep coming back to this post to ogle your ride.....nice build. Kind of creepy, but I was thinking about your wheels while riding the snow today. Felt like I was cheating on my bike.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

How to start an argument on the internet.....

1. Express an opinion

2. Wait


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

To each his/her own. My 1x experiences have been great. The 30-32t puts me right in the sweet spot whereas my 2x 22/36 sometimes leaves me in awkward positions having to choose between the two, planning for the terrain after the hill. I've never walked up a hill on account of a 1x. The extra clearance is also a plus where trees are around. I won't be surprised if I do 1x on the NTB. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rooze (Oct 22, 2014)

Sorry! I posted in the wrong thread!


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

rooze said:


>


Yep....looks like another 1x failure....

Sorry couldn't resist


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

That was great comic relief. Thanks for that.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

That would be a 4x failure for me if it existed.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

silvbullit said:


> That was great comic relief. Thanks for that.


Where the heck is that guy riding anyway...the shire in middle earth


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

You know Frodo has a sweet fatbike!


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

skywardx said:


> Where the heck is that guy riding anyway...the shire in middle earth


I was still sorta contemplating more anti-1X ranting then that comment really snapped me out of it and spared this thread from even more suffering.

It is a losing battle for me anyway. The marketing hounds are too strong and loud, I ride nothing but 9-speed (the Sturgis will change that) and have a back-stock of (9-speed) parts for the next millennium. I am a minority...


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

silvbullit said:


> I was still sorta contemplating more anti-1X ranting then that comment really snapped me out of it and spared this thread from even more suffering.
> 
> It is a losing battle for me anyway. The marketing hounds are too strong and loud, I ride nothing but 9-speed (the Sturgis will change that) and have a back-stock of (9-speed) parts for the next millennium. I am a minority...


If my memory serves me right you were one of the unfortunate few who were still waiting to take delivery wearing out the tracking refresh button...Has she been delivered?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

OnThaCouch said:


> Finally got my NTB out for a real ride. All I can say is this thing was totally worth the wait. It is a ton of fun...is an understatement. It's been wet here the last day or so and it made for some amazing hero dirt and perfect weather to get out for the debut ride.
> 
> *Impressions:*
> Rides real smooth. TONS of traction and rolls over everything. Where I was riding there is a mix of terrain--rock gardens, roots, singletrack, decomposed granite trail, etc. The NTB handled it all really well. Almost like cheating with all the traction I got from the super fat tires :thumbsup:.
> ...


The more I hear, the better I feel about my no-test-ride purchase.
And that is a great-looking build!

Thanks,
-F


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

silvbullit said:


> Ugh...why is everyone so allergic to front derailleurs all of a sudden!? I can't be the only person doing technical uphills that are steep enough that you have to scoot weight forward to keep the front tire down and 30+mph pedally double-track in the same ride. I just don't get it. The spread just isn't enough with 1x. I would get the simplicity argument if front derailleurs were unreliable but they never fail so...fashion?
> 
> Also: the weights people are throwing out are all over the map.


Here is http://forums.mtbr.com/passion/why-i-still-need-all-my-gears-938566.html

...which shows why I need the 22T.

Later, I will make a vid of my speedo at 45-50mph to explain why I still need the 44T. :thumbsup:

I think a lot of people do not consider what a fully-equipped MTB is capable of. If you can ride up anything for which you have traction with a 1X or a SS, that's fantastic, but what if you could ride even steeper with one more gear? I realize very few trails offer such a challenge, but I like to be prepared for whatever I might be capable of.

BTW - this thread is back on track! I am stoked! (and a little jealous that I still have to wait)

-F


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Fleas said:


> Here is http://forums.mtbr.com/passion/why-i-still-need-all-my-gears-938566.html
> 
> ...which shows why I need the 22T.
> 
> ...


Cant argue that one.....good point!

3x anyone?


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

1. Request: Would somebody show me a picture of a WR Green Sturgis in the wild?
2. Statement: I'm actually really glad I understand now why people were avoiding the granny gears, I really didn't understand why before. I get it now.
3. Question: Does anybody know how to navigate from the normal BD web site to the fat bike part? 

I was searching the BD web site for a month, couldn't quite find just the right bike to pull the trigger, until I googled "Motobecane fat bike" and found the other side of the web site. Ordered a Sturgis that day, before 7am if I remember correctly.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

skywardx said:


> If my memory serves me right you were one of the unfortunate few who were still waiting to take delivery wearing out the tracking refresh button...Has she been delivered?


Tomorrow she will be here universe willing. I am stripping the bike and weighing everything and will be posting it up to redeem all of my useless posts b!tching about tracking and customs and 1x.

I probably won't sleep. Jim Beam might have to put me out for the count.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

watermonkey said:


> I keep coming back to this post to ogle your ride.....nice build. Kind of creepy, but I was thinking about your wheels while riding the snow today. Felt like I was cheating on my bike.


Thanks. It was a lot of fun putting it together...lots of time on your hands when you have 5 months to wait .

Got out again today. Man, this thing gets better, and better with each ride.

Today was a decent amount of climbing. I broke my other ride about 6 weeks before my NTB arrived and I could tell I was not in riding shape but it handled the hills well. It locked into the dirt and kept moving upward.

Some really fun descending too. Dirt was tacky and the weather again was perfect for awesome views out on the trail.

Between the geometry, stiff frame, thru-axles, the Bluto and the Bud/Lou combo, I was in riding heaven :thumbsup:.

It stuck to the trail like being on rails and inspired confidence that I didn't have on my other bike. Even hit a couple of Strava (gasp:eekster PRs on the downhill and switchback sections.


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Went by my LBS to hang the medium night train.
Fully stock except for the stem and Azonic 420 pedals (420 grams)









Now the upgrades


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Fleas said:


> The more I hear, the better I feel about my no-test-ride purchase.
> And that is a great-looking build!
> 
> Thanks,
> -F


Thanks...I had a lot of time to think of options for my build :idea:.

I was a little worried about plunking down that amount of cash for that long too. Turns out I was worried for nothing.

Customer service has been pretty good. There was a "bobble" when they called me to tell me my bike was being shipped out but it ended up being one of the "stuck in customs" bikes and didn't ship until about a week later. I spazzed at the time (waiting 5 months will do that to you :incazzato but in hindsight realize one more week wasn't going to make much difference. On the flip side, I emailed them a pic of my bent rear der. hanger and they sent me a spare, no questions asked. It came in the mail today.

Took it out again today and it impressed again :thumbsup:.


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## tpbarry (Nov 24, 2014)

*Green Sturgis*








First post. Finally got my Green Sturgis last week. As a roadie making his first foray into the forbidden world of offroad riding, it took me longer than I care to admit to figure out how to properly align the disc brakes, but setup was really simple other than that.

Bike looks great and rides great. I am super pleased with the green color. Currently have it in the stock setup with some basic SPD pedals. I ordered a size small, and it fits really well. I'm about 5'7" with a 30" inseam, and I ride a 51-52cm road bike and 50cm cross bike. After lurking in this thread for the past few weeks hitting refresh looking for tracking updates, you all have me wanting to convert to ghetto tubeless.

Need some snow!


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

silvbullit said:


> Tomorrow she will be here universe willing. I am stripping the bike and weighing everything and will be posting it up to redeem all of my useless posts b!tching about tracking and customs and 1x.
> 
> I probably won't sleep. Jim Beam might have to put me out for the count.


I'm in the same boat. If stars align, I should be able to pick my bike up at the hub tomorrow (update...TODAY! as it's past midnight for me). First order of business...strip it down to the frame. Re-build.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

AllMountin' said:


> I am a huge 1x supporter, but won't go there on a fatbike, as it is a self limiting decision. On a fair weather bike, you can stand and mash the steep hills with 1x. If it's that steep and sustained they you can't, it's **** riding anyway.
> 
> You can't stand and mash snowy steeps, and you can't power through deep, tackless powder. You have to sit and spin. There are situations where 26T is absolutely necessary, and rides where it's way too short. Either swap chainrings ride to ride, or accept the compromises.
> 
> Show me a 1x crank that lets me run 26T and swap chainrings without removing a crank arm, and I'll reconsider.


I get what you're saying, but my fat bike won't touch snow. I encourage you to ride the gearing you (anyone) want, and I'm going to ride mine. 
Going on the internet and having people in the Northeast saying my hearing option is dumb while I live in the Southwest just gets so old!
So, please everyone keep your 2x9, 3x10, 1x1, and I'll continue having fun on my 1xX.

For the record, 33.3lbs was done with a digital hanging scale and as I mentioned, after modifications


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

My midnight purple is sitting at the hub, and it looks like I'll get a solid 8-10 inches on hump day (insert "that's what she said" here)


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## coot271 (Sep 15, 2010)

ETChipotle said:


> 1. Request: Would somebody show me a picture of a WR Green Sturgis in the wild?
> 2. Statement: I'm actually really glad I understand now why people were avoiding the granny gears, I really didn't understand why before. I get it now.
> 3. Question: Does anybody know how to navigate from the normal BD web site to the fat bike part?
> 
> I was searching the BD web site for a month, couldn't quite find just the right bike to pull the trigger, until I googled "Motobecane fat bike" and found the other side of the web site. Ordered a Sturgis that day, before 7am if I remember correctly.


ET, go to bikesdirect.com,,,,,,when the home page comes up, click on "MTB" link at top of page. The next page loads....find the "shop by category" highlighted in yellow...find "new fat bikes" link....DONE!


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

*Who's got a size large Night Train?*

Can someone with a large (19") Night Train do me a favor and give me the measurements of the inside of the main triangle (Top, Down, Seat tubes)? I'm looking to buy a frame bag and I'd like to have it when my bike arrives, but I need the dimensions. Many thanks!...SC:thumbsup:


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

Amazon.com : Ibera Bicycle Triangle Frame Bag, Large : Bike Seat Packs : Sports & Outdoors

works fine


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

Thanks, but I still need the frame measurements. I got a pending deal on a Revelate Ranger bag, but I need to know which size will be the best fit for the bike. The Ibera site doesn't give proper dimensions for the triangle bag to use as a comparison. Length, width and depth don't really work well for a triangle. Evidently, geometry wasn't their strong suit...SC


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

once I get home I can measure up.. unless someone gets to it first


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

twright205 said:


> once I get home I can measure up.. unless someone gets to it first


SWEET!!! Thanks :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:...SC


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Currently doing happy dance. No obvious damage. Color looks great. I'll hopefully have time to put it together tonight.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

clark4131

13.5 seat tube inside 19 bottom of top tube 23.5 inside of down tube... inches.. that is... large sturgis... remember the downtube is extra wide when thinking about your straps.


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## Tin Turtle (Sep 6, 2012)

My replacement bike arrived today. Box looks good, opened it up and so far all is well. I am still waiting on a stem and some other things before assembling. I called Old Man Mountain and the racks for 190mm are on hold still while they locate the right axles.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

livewr06 said:


> View attachment 940929
> Picked
> View attachment 940928
> 
> ...


Livewr06: I'm still on the fence here. What's your inseam? I am 30". I've turned into a fan of shorter stems for my other bikes. I may be tempted to get a setback stem on a small. Really don't want to take knees to the handlebars. How do you like the 60mm stem on a fat bike?


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## woodsskier (Nov 28, 2012)

car_nut said:


> View attachment 941615
> 
> 
> Currently doing happy dance. No obvious damage. Color looks great. I'll hopefully have time to put it together tonight.


Just finished putting mine together, it looks absolutely awesome in the dark purple. My XL weighed in at 35.4lbs with XT pedals and a carbon seatpost as the only change so far. Can't wait to ride to it! Oh and what a deal!


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

*Weight after upgrades*

My 19" Sturgis Bullet now weighs 35 pounds even. I have made the following changes:

740mm FSA Afterburner bars
60mm FSA OS-190 stem
400mm Easton EA70 seat post
Specialized Henge Comp seat
Two wraps of Duck brand outdoor grade duct tape in place of stock rim strips
Specialized 26x2.3-3.0 tubes
Welgo MG-1 pedals (I definitely could find lighter pedals)

I just got a Cateye Volt 700 so I I can ride at night since it gets dark so early now. Should be able to put some more miles on it now


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Higgins17 said:


> Livewr06: I'm still on the fence here. What's your inseam? I am 30". I've turned into a fan of shorter stems for my other bikes. I may be tempted to get a setback stem on a small. Really don't want to take knees to the handlebars. How do you like the 60mm stem on a fat bike?


Higgins, I've only ridden it around on the pavement as I've not had time to hit the trail yet. Hopefully tomorrow. 
I can stand no problem straddeling the bike and I use platform pedals. It may be a problem in the snow if I posthole putting a foot down but I'm not sure a small would make a difference.
I have long arms and the 60mm stem feels fine. I did't even try it with the long stem.
I am a little worried how the standover will change once I put the Bluto on.
I'll give a report tomorrow. The trail near my house is pretty technical so I'm anxious to see how the Night Train handles and how it climbs with that weight!


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## bdjoh (Feb 12, 2008)

Below is a list of stock parts I weighed as I was working on my bike (19" white Sturgis Bullet) and the new parts I installed:

X5 shifters including inner cables - 269 grams; Shimano SLX shifters - 276 grams
X7 rear derailleur - 299 grams; Shimano SLX rear derailleur - 284 grams
PG-1030 cassette - 397 grams; Shimano SLX 11-36 cassette - 367 grams
Handlebar - 392 grams; LVWA carbon handlebar - 129 grams
Grips - 85 grams; Sette foam - 19 grams
110mm Stem - 139 grams; FSA OS-190, 70mm, 17 deg - 142 grams
Saddle and seat post - 766 grams; Form E3 saddle and 3T Doric Team carbon - 425 g
Front wheel with brake disk, no rim strip - 1658 grams; Didn't change
Rear wheel with brake disk, no rim strip, no cassette - 1877 grams; Didn't change
Tires (72 tpi) - 1282 grams and 1330 grams; Didn't change
Tubes - 620 grams and 589 grams; Didn't change
Rim strips (2) - 300 grams; Surly 64mm white rim strips - 178 grams

I saved 831 grams or 1.8 pounds.
My 19" white Sturgis Bullet now weighs 35.2 pounds.


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

twright205 said:


> 13.5 seat tube inside 19 bottom of top tube 23.5 inside of down tube... inches.. that is... large sturgis... remember the downtube is extra wide when thinking about your straps.


Dude, you rock! Muchas Gracias! By the way, a large bag goes with the large frame...yes, I feel a little silly, but I wanted to make sure ...SC


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## Tin Turtle (Sep 6, 2012)

Here is what I just measured.


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## CDubz (Mar 25, 2008)

Size still has me baffled. I am typically between a medium and large. I like a more trail oriented geometry vs XC and would want to run a shorter stem and some 745 bars. Anyone around the Golden CO area have one of these in a medium or large I could throw a leg over? For reference currently ride a large Knolly Endorphin with a 50mm stem, rode a large SC Blur LT, and a Medium Specialized Enduro. Thanks.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Finally got my bike today! 17.5" Night Train, Purple.

Brought it home, striped it down to the frame and built it back up. Here are a few findings:

Packaging: Acceptable, but not great. My fork clearly had two spots where the paint was worn-off in transit due to rubbing. Fork legs aren't protected well. Frame is mint.

Stock bike, out of the box (no reflectors or pedals): 34.71lbs (weighed on hanging scale)

Frame weight (with headset cups and rear derailleur housing): 2,205g
Fork (with crown race): 1,400g

My upgrades so far:
3T Carbon Flat Bar, 720mm
ESI Chunky Grips
Thomson X4 70mm Stem
Easton EC70 Post, 400mm (too long. Need to cut down as it hits the bottle cage boss)
Fizik Gobi XM Manganese Saddle
Added a quick release I had laying around
X9 rear shifter
1x setup (F. Shifter and F. Der. removed)
RF Narrow-wide 30T Ring (purple ring on it's way. Blue ring is a doner from another bike)
MEC 26x2.5-2.7 Tubes (325 and 357g each)
Purple Duct Tape rim strips
Purple Valve Caps
Purple Chainring bolts

Weight after changes: 31.48lbs









I will need to make some adjustments to cockpit set-up (especially cutting post down)
I will need to figure out the tire pressure with a guage that can actually read sub-20lbs consistently and accurately
I can't seem to get the tires to seat properly. The bead doesn't fully seat opposite the valve. Will put in the stock tubes in just to see if that's the problem. The MEC tubes have the ribs that someone mentioned in this thread, simlar to the QTubes (non-SL version) that makes it not fill up the tire evenly. But the out-of-round mounting is very noticeable rolling on the pavement.

I have a RF Ride Crankset on it's way, mainly to get a narrower q-factor.

There's really not a whole lot more weight to be lost without changing frame, fork or wheels.


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## Broohaha (Apr 28, 2012)

*Various picks of the night train build*

At the risk of completely duplicating other posts, here are some pics of my night train where I pulled offthe cranks and BB. People seemed interested in knowing what kind of lube job was done. I found it interesting to see how much red locktite (I'm assuming) was there. I'll let the experts weigh in on the lube job. I ended up slathering some Phil's grease over most of it.











































Side note: I converted to tubeless, and I'm completely impressed with the change. (Although, it's not as much of weigh reduction as I was hoping for...


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## Tin Turtle (Sep 6, 2012)

Awesome, this is exactly the question I had, should I pull the crank and lube.....


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

First ride complete :thumbsup: First flat in 3 years :madman:

Everything met my expectations. No issues with the bike. Tossed the tent pole stem and setback post for some I had on hand. The 36t front ring's days are numbered. I was very concerned about riding SRAM brakes in the wet this close to Thanksgiving, but I didn't attract the attention of a single turkey hunter  Very impressed with them but will remain skeptical until I've had a full season of good behavior.

I will say I always read about this "self steer" with curiosity. My 1.5 mile to the trail head can best be summed up as : OMG!! @#$% WTF!! 
No issues on the trail, but I don't think I'll be commuting on this thing.


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## adumb (Nov 29, 2009)

Car_nut, That pic looks really familiar. Is that Vietnam is Mass


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

adumb said:


> Car_nut, That pic looks really familiar. Is that Vietnam is Mass


Land Locked Forest in Burlington. I lack the skills to ride 'Nam


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

neons97 said:


> Finally got my bike today! 17.5" Night Train, Purple.
> 
> Brought it home, striped it down to the frame and built it back up. Here are a few findings:
> 
> ...


Please post how that race face crank works out. Been thinking of switching as the Q is extreme for my short legs


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## Broohaha (Apr 28, 2012)

Tin Turtle said:


> Awesome, this is exactly the question I had, should I pull the crank and lube.....


So what was your conclusion? I was hoping to hear what folks thought. Looked pretty dry to me, which matches what I've heard from previous posters about bd bikes. And I've never heard of using lock tite on the bottom bracket.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Anyone have this issue? Before you reply yes both spacers are installed properly on each side of the front hub and no its not the tire.. the rim.is noticably close to one side than the other.. almost thinking my fork is a little out of whack.. or maybe the wheel to the hub is laced wrong?


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

Broohaha said:


> So what was your conclusion? I was hoping to hear what folks thought. Looked pretty dry to me, which matches what I've heard from previous posters about bd bikes. And I've never heard of using lock tite on the bottom bracket.


The bearings are sealed cartridge bearings which will have grease inside. The small amount of grease you are seeing in the pictures is just assembly grease. What is not shown in the pictures are the sealed bearings inside the cups.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

manchvegas said:


> Anyone have this issue? Before you reply yes both spacers are installed properly on each side of the front hub and no its not the tire.. the rim.is noticably close to one side than the other.. almost thinking my fork is a little out of whack.. or maybe the wheel to the hub is laced wrong?


This is probably just the dish of the front wheel being off a little, which would not be unusual for a BD bike.

If you are handy with a spoke wrench, it'll take you about 10 minutes to center it up.
Otherwise stop up to your LBS and pay them to do it.

-F


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

manchvegas said:


> Anyone have this issue? Before you reply yes both spacers are installed properly on each side of the front hub and no its not the tire.. the rim.is noticably close to one side than the other.. almost thinking my fork is a little out of whack.. or maybe the wheel to the hub is laced wrong?


edit^^^beat me to it...what he said.

If everything is installed correctly, then I doubt there's something out of whack with the shock - it there was an alignment issue with the fork lowers, it would have been noticeable when installing the thru axle. Its probably just out of dish. You could systematically tighten all non-rotor side spokes a 1/4 turn, then loosen the rotor side spokes 1/4 turn and repeat until centered, then readjust spoke tension as needed. I've seen this alot, and done this before with success.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

tfinator said:


> Please post how that race face crank works out. Been thinking of switching as the Q is extreme for my short legs


The RF Ride should work just fine. There is plenty of chainstay clearance. I plan on trying to run the 30T NW ring flipped in the outboard (3rd large ring) position to get the right chainline. I think putting it in the normal middle-ring position would be okay as well, but could give an awkward chainline with the small cog. But I doubt I'll be in the small cog often this winter so not sure if that's really a concern or not. I should have the crank in the next week or so.


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## Projectnortheast (Mar 29, 2011)

Thanks for the info guys.. i figured that would be the most likely culprit but i have contacted BD anyway and let them know.. see what they say..


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

manchvegas said:


> Anyone have this issue? Before you reply yes both spacers are installed properly on each side of the front hub and no its not the tire.. the rim.is noticably close to one side than the other.. almost thinking my fork is a little out of whack.. or maybe the wheel to the hub is laced wrong?


Install the wheel backwards and see if it the direction of offset changes. If it flips with the wheel, you need to redish it. If the offset doesn't change, it's the fork. Rockshox had a stretch of machining the lowers offset back in 2010-2011 (I have one  ). The more likely cause is the wheel.


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## gjbiker (Oct 21, 2007)

manchvegas said:


> Anyone have this issue? Before you reply yes both spacers are installed properly on each side of the front hub and no its not the tire.. the rim.is noticably close to one side than the other.. almost thinking my fork is a little out of whack.. or maybe the wheel to the hub is laced wrong?


Hi, when I got my wheel there were 3 spacers. I took one spacer off and saved it as a backup 👍 in case I lose one. Wheel is true an centered but probably wouldn't be if I left it on.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

neons97 said:


> The RF Ride should work just fine. There is plenty of chainstay clearance. I plan on trying to run the 30T NW ring flipped in the outboard (3rd large ring) position to get the right chainline. I think putting it in the normal middle-ring position would be okay as well, but could give an awkward chainline with the small cog. But I doubt I'll be in the small cog often this winter so not sure if that's really a concern or not. I should have the crank in the next week or so.


Thanks. Haven't taken a close look at geometries, but will be looking to do this down the line I think.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

AndrewZorn said:


> The weights people are throwing out are probably mostly derived from $20 bathroom scales that lack both precision and accuracy.


You're right. I weighed 33.3 lbs while holding the bike with my hands and looking at the scale. I added bottle cages and weighed it whilst on the bike stand and it's totally different now. My mistake!


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## Clever Handle (Nov 24, 2013)

Can anyone comment on the sizing/geometry? Does it fit as expected? This bike is on the top of my list, but at 6' tall and a 35" biking inseam I always worry about having enough seat post.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Clever Handle said:


> Can anyone comment on the sizing/geometry? Does it fit as expected? This bike is on the top of my list, but at 6' tall and a 35" biking inseam I always worry about having enough seat post.


FWIW...I am between 5'7" and 5'8" with a 29" inseam...long torso/short legs. I came from a 17" Rockhopper 29er rigid with a 60mm stem before getting my NTB and matched up the sizing numbers and went with the 17.5" NTB.

I am happy with the fit. Same bars from my 29er with a different 65mm stem. Tried to get my contact points in the same place as on my Rockhopper. The standover is a little less than the Rockhopper due to the 120mm Bluto but not an issue. I have done a couple of 1.5hr--2hr rides with climbing and tech terrain with no fit or handling issues related to fit.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

The man in the brown truck finally delivered my Sturgis. The rear derailleur was poking out of the box so I opened it right there with him and luckily no derailleur or hanger damage. But when I hoisted that thing out of the box my heart sank a little as this thing is an absolute pig out of the box. I was a bike shop tech for years and have hoisted many bikes from their boxes and this was definitely heavy...and orange, not the KTM orange I was envisioning but a peircing blaze orange that would look right at home in Cabela's.

I tossed it up on the scale as it came out of the box with the wheel reflectors still attached and no pedals. My 17.5 non-Bluto Sturgis definitely missed the bus for Fat-camp because it came in at 36.44 pounds. My scale has been extremely accurate compared to the UPS scale, post office scale, and airline baggage scale. I desperately hoped the batteries in my scale were dying so I changed them for new ones, and also hoped that humidity was playing a trick. Since the bathroom scale method seems generous I tried that too. No dice. Same weight. Dammit there is no way I am ditching 7 pounds with my modifications.

Semi-discouraged, I yank the bike apart to rebuild with the new parts and changes. During this process I encountered many little details I feel I should share. The bottom bracket threads were bare and there was either paint or thread lock in the threads. It was also way-overtightened; if this were left to be (especially with the internal routing allowing water in the frame a bit) the BB would be a serious pain to remove in the future. The headset was also pretty dry. Of course the cartridge bearings are packed with grease but more grease will help keep the seals happy and helps keep water and grime out a little longer. The derailleur stops were not optimal both front and rear so I fixed those as well. The little cable/hose guides were loose enough that the cable/hose would slide and rattle so I put tiny pieces of mastic tape in the groove to keep them fitting snug and rattle free. I pulled open the rear hub and was disappointed to see a steel axle but happy to see a pawl mechanism that is essentially a Hope clone. It has the steel ratchet teeth pressed into the hub shell and the freehub body rides on two cartridge bearings and what seems to be a steel bushing beneath the pawls themselves. This hub was also too dry for the wet riding around here so I packed a bunch more grease into the seal areas to keep them moist and happy. The hub looks to be sealed pretty well though.

I should mention that these build notes are not unique to Motobecane bikes nor are they gripes. This is common of all bikes no matter the price. For example Fox and Rock Shox forks are routinely shipped with less than their own recommended bath oil amounts...and those are sometimes $1k just for the fork.

The fork doesn't have a true tapered steerer, it simply has an alloy collar pressed down over the steel steerer which no doubt contributes to the portly weight of 1410g that I measured with the headset race still installed. A carbon fork (or better aluminum) would be the easiest way to drop 1.5 pounds off of this bike for sure. They definitely saved some bucks with this umm...piece.

I was very pleased when the frame, with derailleur housing still in the frame and headset cups still installed, weighed in at only 5.06lbs or exactly 2300g on my scale. I expected it to weight more. The other weights:

Front wheel w/o tire, tube, rim strip, axle, or rotor= 1490g
Rear wheel w/o tire, tube, rim strip, axle, rotor, or cassette= 1730g
Vee Snowshoes 72tpi= 1360g/1370g
Stock tubes= 640g/650g
Rim strips (both red ones)= 298g
Stock bar= 388g --what a heffer!
Stock stem= 153g --actually light wtf
Tektro 180mm rotors= 149g each
Tektro brakes with 180mm hardware and bolts f/r= 375g/386g
Samox cranks= 852g
Samox BB= 158g
Saddle and Post= 770g
Cassette= 281g
X7 rear derailleur= 300g

The changes I made was a swap to Avid DB3 brakes with 6" rotors which eliminated alot of adapter hardware and the brakes themselves were 87g lighter without taking into account the rotor weight loss. I put on a 50mm Holzfeller stem that was actually 25g heavier, a Ritchey carbon bar, a Turner (Thomson knock-off) seatpost, San Marco Aspide saddle, ditched the rim strips and went for the three wraps of duct tape, and went with 2.3-2.7 tubes from Price Point that have held 20psi for 24 hours now. That brought my weight down to 32.6 without pedals. Sorry for the crappy picture, my phone botched both pics.

This was my first ride on a fatbike and it felt pretty decent. This thing is the hardest bike to wheelie that I have ridden in a long time. The balance point is really high and very small so efficient lofting of the front wheel is near impossible. It take alot of effort to hold it in the air. But the corner grip is amazing! I can't wait to probe those limits soon. We have 8-12 inches of snow in the forecast so dirt time will be limited.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Looks good :thumbsup:...nice write up


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

It needed some serious editing...I typed then hit submit without reading. Whoops.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Lovin' that orange. Wishing the NTB came in that color. Nice job on the write up too.


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## bdjoh (Feb 12, 2008)

Here's a picture of my 19" Sturgis Bullet. Haven't had a chance to ride much, live in North Dakota and its been below zero already. Definitely get a workout riding it, I'm used to riding my 20 pound GT Zaskar Team hardtail or my 22 pound GT I-drive Team full suspension. I did enjoy what little I did ride it, can't wait to really get out and ride my favorite trail.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Clever Handle said:


> Can anyone comment on the sizing/geometry? Does it fit as expected? This bike is on the top of my list, but at 6' tall and a 35" biking inseam I always worry about having enough seat post.


I'm 6' with very average proportions. I fit perfectly fine on virtually every bike I've tried that is labeled as a "large". I believe my cycling inseam to be 34". My other bikes are:

Model___Seat Tube______ETT
Yelli..........18"....................24.5
Spearfish..20"....................24.4
Satori.......19"....................24.0

I run stems ranging from 60-80mm depending on the bike with ~720-740mm bars, straight post/no setback. My 19" Night Train fits just like the three above after I changed out the bars/stem/seatpost. I measured the TT to be right around 24.25". I have 8.5" (215mm) of seatpost showing as measured from saddle rails to collar. You have roughly 10" of seat tube depth before the post bottoms out on the bottle cage bosses. Assuming you'd want your saddle 1" higher than mine, you'll still have plenty of post insertion if you go with a 400mm (which is what it comes with).

Let me know if you need any other measurements.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Sweet!! Are those white spokes?


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Higgins17 said:


> Livewr06: I'm still on the fence here. What's your inseam? I am 30". I've turned into a fan of shorter stems for my other bikes. I may be tempted to get a setback stem on a small. Really don't want to take knees to the handlebars. How do you like the 60mm stem on a fat bike?


Took my 17.5 Night Train out for a 7 mile ride on technical single track tonight. I started out in the evening with natural light which made it nice to get familiar with the bike and finished up the second half under lights.
Standover height again was fine for me. I have a 30" inseam and can stand flat footed straddeling the bike.
I started out with a climb that led to tight switchbacks. I was totally surprised by how well this thing climbs! I'm sure it's the sum of a totally rigid frame and the fat and tall tires, but thirty five pounds and I didn't dab any of the switchbacks!?! Amazing.
By the time I got to the top, after making a seat adjustment, I felt totally comfortable on the bike.
The Wheelbase is long yet maneuverable. I need to get the Bluto installed ASAP though. The bucking of the wheels was not pleasant.

I bought a low pressure gauge and put the tires at 10 and 12 lbs but the tires are still firm when I squeeze them.
Is this right or is my gauge off?

I made a concious effort to be out of the seat when at speed using my legs and arms for suspension. Definitely helped for ride control. I also miss my seat dropper.
The brakes worked well and were responsive. The shifting was not that crisp though. 
The front derailleur hesitated to shift time and again and set my decision to go 1X. I'll play with the adjustment until I make the switch.
There is a short smooth downhill thats always a lot of fun to mach down and I hit it at half speed and got to the bottom with a smile.
I was impressed with the stability of the stock tires and also made a mental note to come back thursday morning with my FS bike as the trail is nice and tacky!!
Back to the Night Train. Stability and tempo was good on the loop trail. It handled the roots and small bridges with ease and I thoroughly enjoyed myself throughout most ofthe ride.
There is a final super fast and somewhat rocky downhill that I generally rip on with my FS bikes. Well thats what they are made for, not the Night Train! Wow that was a bucking bronco on that trail. I'll keep it on the smoother trails!
For the price of the bike and what I intend to use it for, which will mostly be winter riding in lake Tahoe, this is a great bike and a great deal.
I'll continue to do upgrades to make the bike more enjoyable and to lighten it up.
I look forward to this weekend in Tahoe to see how it does up there on the trails and hopefully in the snow.
I'm sure I'll have just as much fun


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## Broohaha (Apr 28, 2012)

silvbullit said:


> It needed some serious editing...I typed then hit submit without reading. Whoops.


Yeah, that was a seriously weak post... (Completely kidding. I was right there with you, until you got to the hubs, which I haven't taken apart on my NT.) 36 pounds seems a bit crazy for non-bluto though...


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

livewr06 said:


> View attachment 942025
> 
> 
> Took my 17.5 Night Train out for a 7 mile ride on technical single track tonight. I started out in the evening with natural light which made it nice to get familiar with the bike and finished up the second half under lights.
> ...


The bluto makes a HUGE difference. I locked mine out and forgot to put it back before my ride this morning, and once I realized it was locked (about 2 miles in), I unlocked it. Wow, what a difference it makes! Suddenly things got way more comfortable again. Without it, yeah, bounce bounce bounce.

I am running my tires at about 10psi and yeah, they still feel firm. With the bluto, the 10 is okay and it isn't too much, at least for me.


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

fripp said:


> The bluto makes a HUGE difference. I locked mine out and forgot to put it back before my ride this morning, and once I realized it was locked (about 2 miles in), I unlocked it. Wow, what a difference it makes! Suddenly things got way more comfortable again. Without it, yeah, bounce bounce bounce.
> 
> I am running my tires at about 10psi and yeah, they still feel firm. With the bluto, the 10 is okay and it isn't too much, at least for me.


Thanks, I'm going to install it tonight for sure!


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Broohaha said:


> Yeah, that was a seriously weak post... (Completely kidding. I was right there with you, until you got to the hubs, which I haven't taken apart on my NT.) 36 pounds seems a bit crazy for non-bluto though...


I have the NT (non-bullet), and my scale comes in almost identical to silvbullit on all measurements component for component. My theoretical 22lb 5" carbon XC bike weighs 23.5lbs on this same scale. I say theoretical, because that is all of the "advertised" weights by each component's manufacturer. Not actual weights.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

neons97 said:


> I have the NT (non-bullet), and my scale comes in almost identical to silvbullit on all measurements component for component. My theoretical 22lb 5" carbon XC bike weighs 23.5lbs on this same scale. I say theoretical, because that is all of the "advertised" weights by each component's manufacturer. Not actual weights.


I am definitely not saying my weight is gospel, I would actually love for it to be wrong. I like your numbers alot better. The only out-of-the-box differences between our bikes should be the rear derailleur, shifters, and tires so our weights should be close.

That being said, just before I went for a ride today I gave her one of those top-tube-two-handed-seat-of-the-pants-weight-test-lifts with newer Crank Brothers Mallets installed and she felt lighter than the 33+ with pedals she would be according to my listed weight.

I was extremely happy to see the frame weight was lighter than even my most optimistic expectation. It is not stupid-light like something is going to break but the heart of the machine is definitely worthy of upgrades and not just a turd with nice parts hung on to it.

If my scale starts to get a little "heavy" after, say, 10 pounds I would be a happy camper because that means all of my bikes are actually lighter! Wait...that means I have fewer excuses...


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## Tin Turtle (Sep 6, 2012)

So if I replace the front hub (Night Train) - will the Hope Fatsno 150x15mm work with front disc spacing?


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

Yes it should work fine. It mostly depends on how stylish the color is...har har.

The front hub on these is just as good as anything else though. Front hubs are easy--2 bearings, one alloy axle, and shell and some end caps with o-rings in them. Hard to screw that up. The front axle is aluminum. Only the rear was steel and it was fairly thin so it wasn't very heavy. It had nicely machined bearing surfaces as well that should outlast aluminum. If a bearing gets wretched and starts turning on the axle it would take a while for the tolerance to wear.

For the record, my end caps fit just as snug as my Hope 15mm end caps. I have installed and removed the wheel multiple times already and the caps are in there.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Ok I went on my first NTB ride yesterday. I thought the bike performed really well for a hardtail. I am coming from a FS 27.5 bike with 6 inches of travel so I felt like I was bouncing around a bit. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I was running 14 PSI front and rear so I'm going to dial that down a bit. I upgraded the drivetrain to a 26t direct mount chainring with raceface turbine and a OneUp 42t rear. Man the range was awesome. I wasn't breaking any land speed records but I didn't have to walk up any hills. I think with no snow I would still take my current bike over the NTB but I think once the trails start getting snowy and sloshy, I will be grabbing the NTB...which is what I got it for.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Happy Thanksgiving Fat bikers....

My NT weights in at 33.4 mostly stock...(Turkey 19 even unstuffed in case anyone cared )

Thought I would throw in my weights just in case someone wanted to grill me for being in the wrong thread with that thanksgiving comment...:nono:

Happy Trails


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

beachbum1 said:


> Ok I went on my first NTB ride yesterday. I thought the bike performed really well for a hardtail. I am coming from a FS 27.5 bike with 6 inches of travel so I felt like I was bouncing around a bit. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I was running 14 PSI front and rear so I'm going to dial that down a bit. I upgraded the drivetrain to a 26t direct mount chainring with raceface turbine and a OneUp 42t rear. Man the range was awesome. I wasn't breaking any land speed records but I didn't have to walk up any hills. I think with no snow I would still take my current bike over the NTB but I think once the trails start getting snowy and sloshy, I will be grabbing the NTB...which is what I got it for.


I went for my first trail ride last night as well. A quick 15km loop. Dry, hardpacked, and cold (-2C). Same experience as you, except I don't have the bluto. In those conditions, I would've preferred my 22lb 5" travel bike. But once it gets sloppy, wet and slushy, I can see where this excels.

I started at 10psi front, 11psi rear. A little too much self-steer on the front on any slow twisty single track. Also under hard and heavy braking on a descent, there was a lot of tire squirm. Was great at speed as long as I counter-steered and didn't try to turn the bars to make a corner. The rear seemed absolutely perfect for my weight (205lbs). Never too sluggish, not too bouncy, and not too firm. I would experiment with a few more PSI out of the rear just to see what it does, but in dry and hard packed conditions, it felt pretty good. I'm going to have to experiment with the front pressures to see if more PSI is going to trade-off on the grip.

I'm running a 1x 30x36. It was a LOT of work vs. my other bike, but that was expected. It took me about 5km to come to the realization that I couldn't keep up the same pace as on my other bike. And momentum is your friend. I didn't do any major climbs, but the 30x36 probably won't be enough for some of my tougher climbs.

My biggest issue though is the wide q-factor of the cranks. My knees are pretty sore this morning. I can't wait for my RF Ride cranks to arrive with 20mm narrower q-factor.


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

Woohoo! The fat body is at my local UPS hub! Too bad I'm on duty today and it's a holiday...I hate waiting :madman: ...SC


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Just a heads up...bikedirect is selling some of their fatbike wheelsets separately during their Black Friday sale (it looks like a few will fit the Sturgis/Night Train):

Save Up to 60% Off FatBike, MTB, Road, Lifestyle Bicycle Bike Wheels for Bicycles, Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, Hybrid, Comfort and More Save Up to 60% Off New Bikes

I picked up a set of the Fatbike 29er wheels...


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

neons97 said:


> ...
> 
> My biggest issue though is the wide q-factor of the cranks. My knees are pretty sore this morning. I can't wait for my RF Ride cranks to arrive with 20mm narrower q-factor.


I have not yet got a good look at this. Can you please post a pic of your crank arm clearance on each side? A before and after would be even better!

Thanks,
-F

edit:


trailwerks said:


> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


This pic shows what looks to be minimal crank to chainstay clearance on the drive side. At least not 10mm. How much narrower can you go?


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

Fleas said:


> I have not yet got a good look at this. Can you please post a pic of your crank arm clearance on each side? A before and after would be even better!
> 
> Thanks,
> -F
> ...


My trail side photo seems like a little bit of optical illusion.

Looks to be close the .75 inches. Removal of the 10mm spacer on each side to run narrower cranks shouldn't be an issue.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Wow. Those look like legit wheels. They are $100 cheaper than a similar set on Amazon too. I wonder how wide the outer rim width is. I would be tempted to jump on this if they had rims that were 29+ with. 3 inch tires.

UOTE=baker;11602788]Just a heads up...bikedirect is selling some of their fatbike wheelsets separately during their Black Friday sale (it looks like a few will fit the Sturgis/Night Train):

Save Up to 60% Off FatBike, MTB, Road, Lifestyle Bicycle Bike Wheels for Bicycles, Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, Hybrid, Comfort and More Save Up to 60% Off New Bikes

I picked up a set of the Fatbike 29er wheels...[/QUOTE]


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Supposedly 30mm external width and 25mm internal width for the i25


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Fleas said:


> I have not yet got a good look at this. Can you please post a pic of your crank arm clearance on each side? A before and after would be even better!
> 
> Thanks,
> -F
> ...


My Ride cranks come in next week. Will post a before and after pic. But there is PLENTY of crankarm-to-chainstay clearance to go 10mm narrower on each side.

I measured tonight. At the narrowest point with the SAMOX cranks, there is 24mm clearance (about 2" from end of crank arm where chainstay flares out for tire clearance). So plenty of room to reduce 10mm. However, you can't look just at the spindle to save 10mm each side as each crank arm has slightly different Q-factors. For instance, the SRAM X9 is narrow, with the Ride/Turbine (non-cinch)/Next SL Cinch at 202mm and apparently the Turbine Cinch is +10mm vs. the other RF cranks.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Anyone have any thoughts on the maximum reasonable tire size one could put on those 29er rims?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

beachbum1 said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on the maximum reasonable tire size one could put on those 29er rims?


That's what I was wondering too. Seems like a smokin' deal if they fit 29+/3" tires.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I know on surly' website they recommended minimum of 35 mm on their 3 inch tires


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

trailwerks said:


> My trail side photo seems like a little bit of optical illusion.
> 
> Looks to be close the .75 inches. Removal of the 10mm spacer on each side to run narrower cranks shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> ...


Thank you!



neons97 said:


> My Ride cranks come in next week. Will post a before and after pic. But there is PLENTY of crankarm-to-chainstay clearance to go 10mm narrower on each side.
> 
> I measured tonight. At the narrowest point with the SAMOX cranks, there is 24mm clearance (about 2" from end of crank arm where chainstay flares out for tire clearance). So plenty of room to reduce 10mm. However, you can't look just at the spindle to save 10mm each side as each crank arm has slightly different Q-factors. For instance, the SRAM X9 is narrow, with the Ride/Turbine (non-cinch)/Next SL Cinch at 202mm and apparently the Turbine Cinch is +10mm vs. the other RF cranks.


...and Thank you!

Seems to be a bit of an oversight on the part of Motobecane, but maybe they had a million of those cranks in a Chinese warehouse so that's what they spec'd. :skep:

-F


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Fleas said:


> Thank you!
> 
> ...and Thank you!
> 
> ...


Keep in mind that using the narrower spindle (i.e. 170 O.L.D.) / narrower q-factor cranks are only going to work on 190mm frames if you run a 1x front ring. You will need a 190 O.L.D. / 120mm spindle crank if you want to run a 2x front ring set-up. So BD did not mis-spec these bikes as they came stock with a 2x setup. However, from crank to crank, even for 190 O.L.D./120mm spindle, you will get different q-factors. Usually between 220-230mm. An original Race Face X-Type Turbine has a 222 q-factor while the new Race Face CINCH Turbine has a q-factor of 232mm (both using the 120mm spindle). The Samox is also known to have a q-factor of 230mm. So I'm really looking forward to my 202mm q-factor of the Ride cranks.

Running the narrower spindle/q-factor crank on a 2x setup will either: 
1.) Have chainring-to-frame clearance issues in the small ring
2.) When in the small ring, have tire clearance issues in the granny/big cog combo when running wider tires. And why get a 190mm O.L.D. frame to run 4.8" tires if you can't run tires wider than 4" (just guessing here) just to get the narrower q-factor? If that's the case, just get a 170mm O.L.D. frame.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Just in case anyone was wondering if they can get away with 170mm raceface cinch turbine cranks I think the answer is no if I'm seeing this correctly. I have the 190mm one with the two 20 mm spacers. I have similar clearance as Trailwerks. I took a picture of the distance between the chainstay and my clipped in shoe. Looks like its around 5-10mm. I am assuming if folks got the 170 mm one to shorten the Q factor, then shoes might not clear the chainstay. Hope this helps.


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

Nirvana was found at 3.5 psi on my Night Train Bluto


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

beachbum1 said:


> Just in case anyone was wondering if they can get away with 170mm raceface cinch turbine cranks I think the answer is no if I'm seeing this correctly. I have the 190mm one with the two 20 mm spacers. I have similar clearance as Trailwerks. I took a picture of the distance between the chainstay and my clipped in shoe. Looks like its around 5-10mm. I am assuming if folks got the 170 mm one to shorten the Q factor, then shoes might not clear the chainstay. Hope this helps.


...and Thank you!

I was thinking that there must be room for improvement, but this ^^^ shows that a narrower q-factor may cause interference with heel rub.

All useful info. Much appreciated!

-F


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

my sturgis in the wild. some dirt and snow shots (yes, i was swapping tires around).


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

*Night Train delivered and built!*

19" Night Train, just delivered and built by yours truly...







































I pulled everything apart and regreased as needed, and it needed it. Obviously, I replaced the El Cheapo cranks with some RaceFace Turbines and VP Bear Traps (old school, baby!). I dropped down to a 32/22 double chainring and I'm glad I did. With all the hills here in Reno/Tahoe, it's a great ratio, especially for a Clydesdale like me!

I had a new Kore Torsion downhill bar sitting in my parts bin, so I added a 65mm Kore stem to it with some North Shore grips.

The frame bag is a large Ranger from Revelate. That thing is the shiznit when it comes to construction. It's built as good as my diving dry suit.

The derailleur hangar was bent in shipping, but I was able to straighten it and it shifts like a dream. Bikes Direct is sending me a new one, but I'll just keep it stored in the frame bag for a rainy day.

This thing is now spec'd almost as good as the Specialized Fatboy Expert I was eyeing, minus the carbon fork, which I didn't want anyway. Not bad for $1200 plus a few goodies.

I have a Hope QR seatpost clamp coming and the El Cheapo seatpost is fine for now.

Lemme know what you think. Personally, I love it! I can't wait to take her for a real spin tomorrow...SC


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

NicoleB said:


> my sturgis in the wild. some dirt and snow shots (yes, i was swapping tires around).
> 
> View attachment 942509
> View attachment 942510
> ...


Nice!! Lovin' seeing everyone's Stugis' and Night Trains in action. Keep the pics comin' people!!

Nicole--Which set of tires did you end up choosing? How were the On-Ones compared to the Vees?


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## rkzhao (Sep 18, 2014)

OnThaCouch said:


> That's what I was wondering too. Seems like a smokin' deal if they fit 29+/3" tires.


People have squeezed Knards on Stans Flows and Crests so a 25mm inner width rim should work, it's just not ideal. With Flows, some people say it rides fine, others talk about weird cornering traction or lacking a true 29+ feel.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

clark4131 said:


> 19" Night Train, just delivered and built by yours truly...
> 
> View attachment 942532
> View attachment 942533
> ...


Super cool!! Nice job. I am dreaming about the day I can replace my crankset with the RF. Not set to drop the ducats for that one yet.


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

OnThaCouch said:


> Super cool!! Nice job. I am dreaming about the day I can replace my crankset with the RF. Not set to drop the ducats for that one yet.


I got a screaming deal on eBay, about $125 delivered. Keep your eyes peeled, that's where I get most of my goodies!...SC


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

OnThaCouch said:


> Nice!! Lovin' seeing everyone's Stugis' and Night Trains in action. Keep the pics comin' people!!
> 
> Nicole--Which set of tires did you end up choosing? How were the On-Ones compared to the Vees?


So i had the On-One white tires before i even got this bike (i had a pugsly before, and used them on that). i was all excited to put them on, when i realized they are 2.2 lbs heavier as a set! thats at lot to add to a bike. The vees are pretty light, so i think what i'll do is use them mostly for a summer tire, and the white ones for a winter tire since they are a bit more aggressive of a tread (however, the vees have done pretty well so far in this heavy wet snow we had).


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

Hey just an FYI for anyone who's interested in running a 1x10.. One Up has a 20percent off deal right now. Just got a 42t cog plus a 16t cog for $72 bucks total TYD. Not a bad deal... but its only good through Dec 2.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Anyone have issues with a broken rear hub? It just happened today. Was riding up a small mound of soft dirt and I thought the crank spinning was from losing traction. It ended up that the hub wasn't moving at all. Its weird how intermittent it is but in the end its like the pawls or whatever are skipping or not catching. I will call up bikes direct. Bike has only 55 miles


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## Ksousa81 (Aug 22, 2011)

*Hub 150mm or 135mm*



manchvegas said:


> Anyone have this issue? Before you reply yes both spacers are installed properly on each side of the front hub and no its not the tire.. the rim.is noticably close to one side than the other.. almost thinking my fork is a little out of whack.. or maybe the wheel to the hub is laced wrong?


Hi, I just ordered a boris the brut sprung. I wont see if for 6 to 8 weeks. 
I noticed here that you are saying there are spacers on either side of the hub. is the hub a 135mm with spacers to make it 150mm or did i read that wrong.
I ask b/c i think Im going to sell the bluto and get a carbon fork.
If the carbon fork isnt a 15mm through axle is the front hub going to be a problem or are there different adaptors for the hub?
All that being said, who makes a carbon fork worthy of supporting a 250lb clyde?

thanks guys!


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

*Night Train maiden voyage...Oops!*

Got a little rain and snow last night, so I thought I'd see how soggy it was with the new fatty. Let's just say gumbo and fat bikes aren't always a good mix...









I won't show you what my shoes looked like from the walk out...SC


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

clark4131 said:


> Got a little rain and snow last night, so I thought I'd see how soggy it was with the new fatty. Let's just say gumbo and fat bikes aren't always a good mix...
> 
> View attachment 942743
> 
> ...


Looks awesome though. What's the q factor on those cranks and how is the clearance on the chain stays?


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

manchvegas said:


> Anyone have this issue? Before you reply yes both spacers are installed properly on each side of the front hub and no its not the tire.. the rim.is noticably close to one side than the other.. almost thinking my fork is a little out of whack.. or maybe the wheel to the hub is laced wrong?


Turn the wheel around, put it back in the forks and see if the offset is still on the same side: if it is it's the fork. Otherwise you need to re-dish the wheel.

Tim


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

I haven't had it on a real ride yet. The pic was just from cruising through a drainage area in my neighborhood. The Q is the same as the original cranks and stay clearance is just fine. It does feel weird compared to my other "skinny" bikes...SC


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

Ksousa81 said:


> Hi, I just ordered a boris the brut sprung. I wont see if for 6 to 8 weeks.
> I noticed here that you are saying there are spacers on either side of the hub. is the hub a 135mm with spacers to make it 150mm or did i read that wrong.
> I ask b/c i think Im going to sell the bluto and get a carbon fork.
> If the carbon fork isnt a 15mm through axle is the front hub going to be a problem or are there different adaptors for the hub?
> ...


The hub is a 15mm x 142mm hub with spacers to make it 150mm..... the spacers can be installed on a 142mm Kuat mount for transport- in case anyone is trying to figure out a way to transport theirs.

But why would you want to ditch the Bluto! It's the best part of the bike! I put 3 bottomless tokens in mine, I'm 200 lbs and now run it at only about 50-55psi. Sag is perfect and doesnt bottom out anymore. Without the tokens the fork is way too linear and blows through its travel unless you set the sag super low.


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Put the Bluto on my Night Train and took it out for a ride in the Tahoe area.
Unfortunately, it was slushy so I couldn't get a good idea how this thing performs on snow.
It definitely motored and tracked downhill. It was fun sliding around the turns and there was a nice flow type trail that had me smiling.
One thing I'll say is when conditions are sloppy, fenders are a must and I'll be ordering those up. Approaching 20MPH had the slop flying!
Traction uphill in the slush was sometimes less than desirable and had to walk up some sections. I lowered air pressure a bit but it did not help.
All in all though the Bluto made a huge difference with comfort and allowed me to let it rip without being bucked around.
The NTB will definitely allow me to play in the snow till it's deep enough to ski.


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## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

Got my NTB out today on it's first snow ride. In Northern NJ, we had roughly 5 inches of accumulation on Friday. But by today (Sunday), the higher temps (43 degrees or so) caused the snow to be pretty wet and mushy. Lots of patches of mud too. 

I switched my clipless pedals to flat pedals and wore waterproof hiking boots and gaitors. Turned out to be a great combo. 

I rode with a buddy who was on a standard 29er HT, and he was struggling. His bike was fishtailing fore and aft. He also had to walk anything that even hinted at being a hill. 

Clearly the fat tire bike was built for this kind of slop, so I floated over much of it and maintained far better control. It's not a magic carpet though. Periodically, my front wheel would slide out sideways, and I'd have to either dab my feet, or stop and straighten out.. I was able to pedal up a few minor hills, but I'd still spin out and stall causing me to dismount and walk. We avoided any serious climbs today. Overall, very slow going. But it was still a great workout...and a whole lot of fun. I really can't wait to develop experience on all types of snow. 

I loaned my buddy the NTB for some sections, and he was finally sold! I think he just ID'd the Xmas present his wife will buy him later! LOL. I'm psyched because I'll eventually have a perfect fatbike ride partner.


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

*Sturgis in snow*

Bit delayed, but some pics from my first snow ride (Thanksgiving day and Friday after). Up visiting family in coastal NH, had about 4-6" of snow depending exactly where I was. Saw several other fat bikes out there... including one other guy on a Sturgis/NT!

























I lost my pressure gauge, so have no idea what pressures I had... but it was pretty dang low. Betting 5psi or lower. Tires worked pretty well, anything less than 4" and it was pretty reasonable going. When it got up to 6"-ish it was quite a chore. The 2nd day I went out I got to ride some stuff that had been packed down (or even just my own tracks from the previous day) and it was a lot faster!

This is still all stock.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Need some help guys, crankset width... 

Customer service promptly sent me a replacement crankset after I demonstrated mine was crooked from shipping. I was pleased to get an X5 as a replacement instead of a Samox. Unfortunately, I just got around to installation, and noticed before pulling the old cranks that the new spindle is far shorter than the Samox. I'm guessing it's the length I'd need if those aluminum axle spacers didn't exist. 

I emailed BikesDirect and the guy insists it'll be fine and I should install it anyway. I'm pretty sure even if it does fit (like, the chainring doesn't hit the chain stay) that the chain line will be horrible. That's the whole point of the spacers and the extra extra wide spindle, right? I really don't want to waste more time messing with it (and I'm at work right now), anyone have an opinion on this?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Sounds like they sent you a normal X5 crankset and not a fat bike crankset.
Measure the spindle length to be sure...


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

AndrewZorn said:


> Need some help guys, crankset width...
> 
> Customer service promptly sent me a replacement crankset after I demonstrated mine was crooked from shipping. I was pleased to get an X5 as a replacement instead of a Samox. Unfortunately, I just got around to installation, and noticed before pulling the old cranks that the new spindle is far shorter than the Samox. I'm guessing it's the length I'd need if those aluminum axle spacers didn't exist.
> 
> I emailed BikesDirect and the guy insists it'll be fine and I should install it anyway. I'm pretty sure even if it does fit (like, the chainring doesn't hit the chain stay) that the chain line will be horrible. That's the whole point of the spacers and the extra extra wide spindle, right? I really don't want to waste more time messing with it (and I'm at work right now), anyone have an opinion on this?


Imagining this, I'd assume you're right. But, cranks only take 5-10 minutes to switch, so it's probably best to give it a shot.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Got my Sturgis out this weekend for a couple trail rides - been too busy and then too sick with the flu to ride since I put the 32T ring up front and the bottomless tokens in the Bluto. I can say without reservation that both were certainly upgrades. 32T up front I never once touched my FD - I may go 1X.  Bottomless tokens - I put in two, and I think I may add one or two more. Before the tokens I was at 135PSI and still using most of the travel without hitting anything "big" - but without the supple feel I wanted on the small stuff. 125PSI got me the feel I like in a fork but would bottom it out on anything half way big. With the tokens and 125PSI it was very nice - did two different trails and used about 75% travel max - didn't hit anything major but enough medium stuff to justify 75% - no jumps (ground was frozen and some ice on the trails). 

I may go with another token before the next ride. I am 240#, and the 125PSI after the two tokens was nice.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Sell the sram crank and put it toward something that works if need be. Or keep using what you have and pocket the cash


Pedaling


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

AndrewZorn said:


> Need some help guys, crankset width...
> 
> Customer service promptly sent me a replacement crankset after I demonstrated mine was crooked from shipping. I was pleased to get an X5 as a replacement instead of a Samox. Unfortunately, I just got around to installation, and noticed before pulling the old cranks that the new spindle is far shorter than the Samox. I'm guessing it's the length I'd need if those aluminum axle spacers didn't exist.
> 
> I emailed BikesDirect and the guy insists it'll be fine and I should install it anyway. I'm pretty sure even if it does fit (like, the chainring doesn't hit the chain stay) that the chain line will be horrible. That's the whole point of the spacers and the extra extra wide spindle, right? I really don't want to waste more time messing with it (and I'm at work right now), anyone have an opinion on this?


IMO the stock chainline is awful. The big ring is way too far outboard, while the small ring is about centerline of the cassette. I think they spaced it out too far just so the chain would clear the tire even with 5in tires installed. I'm actually going to a 1x10 with the stock crank but just using a 28t 64BCD ring- the overall alignment is perfect... right in the middle of the cassette.

I'd say try it with the crank they sent you. Just sight down the rings once it's installed. If they're more or less lined up with the 4th and 6th cog then you should be perfect. If the spindle still isn't long enough with the spacers taken out though, you'll probably just have to Ebay the cranks you have and put the money towards something else unfortunately....


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

AndrewZorn said:


> Need some help guys, crankset width...
> ........?


Neons97 replied correctly to your original post about this:



neons97 said:


> The x5 crank will not fit if you plan on yang it as a two ring setup. In the small ring you will either have clearance issues with the frame or the chain will run rhe tire when I'm the big cog/small ring combo.


SRAM doesn't make a crank for 190mm bikes to my knowledge. Assuming it's an X5 Fat crank, it'll fit your BB fine with the chainline moved in 10mm. If you only use the big ring and mount it to the outside position on the crank, you should be good in terms of chainline and tire clearance. You might have issues with heal strike on the chainstays.

If you'd like to keep it 2x and maintain tire/chain clearance, you'll need something else. Race Face and Surly are pretty much the only game in town right now for aftermarket 190mm cranks.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> Got my Sturgis out this weekend for a couple trail rides - been too busy and then too sick with the flu to ride since I put the 32T ring up front and the bottomless tokens in the Bluto. I can say without reservation that both were certainly upgrades. 32T up front I never once touched my FD - I may go 1X.  Bottomless tokens - I put in two, and I think I may add one or two more. Before the tokens I was at 135PSI and still using most of the travel without hitting anything "big" - but without the supple feel I wanted on the small stuff. 125PSI got me the feel I like in a fork but would bottom it out on anything half way big. With the tokens and 125PSI it was very nice - did two different trails and used about 75% travel max - didn't hit anything major but enough medium stuff to justify 75% - no jumps (ground was frozen and some ice on the trails).
> 
> I may go with another token before the next ride. I am 240#, and the 125PSI after the two tokens was nice.


After doing the 32T switch i said screw it and went with the raceface 30T NW and went 1x10. Love it - 30T and the 36 in the back was PLENTY for the climbs I have.

How easy is it to do this token thing? I set my shock to 90psi (i'm 225) and i seems fine to me. I used the bright red ring to see how far up i travel and i never bottomed out on any drop or anything else. Am I missing something?


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

AndrewZorn said:


> Need some help guys, crankset width...
> 
> Customer service promptly sent me a replacement crankset after I demonstrated mine was crooked from shipping. I was pleased to get an X5 as a replacement instead of a Samox. Unfortunately, I just got around to installation, and noticed before pulling the old cranks that the new spindle is far shorter than the Samox. I'm guessing it's the length I'd need if those aluminum axle spacers didn't exist.
> 
> I emailed BikesDirect and the guy insists it'll be fine and I should install it anyway. I'm pretty sure even if it does fit (like, the chainring doesn't hit the chain stay) that the chain line will be horrible. That's the whole point of the spacers and the extra extra wide spindle, right? I really don't want to waste more time messing with it (and I'm at work right now), anyone have an opinion on this?


Yeah i researched this and found you can only do a single ring up front and still use this. I bought the raceface turbine 190 ready crank and its great if you need a replacement. If you want one ring up front, add the 30T NW and it'll work out sweet


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

On my 2nd ride, I broke it....can't ride until I get some replacement parts.

At the end of the ride, I leaned my bike up against a tree. It fell over on the drivetrain side, and the derailleur hanger bent so badly that the derailleur cage was in the spokes. Knowing it was aluminum, I knew I had no options. So i still bent it "straight" and got the dreaded "snap".

While I know the hanger is supposed to be sacrificial, in my opinion, it should not bend in this situation. There was only a tiny little knick on the derailleur. What was more surprising than the softness of the hanger is the price. BD wants $21 for one of these pieces. I can see them being worth $5 at most given how cheap they are when Wheels MFG/North Shore Billet generally charges $20-$25 for a high quality billet hanger (usually $35-$45 for a thru-axle billet hanger with the axle threading into the hanger).

Let's contact manufacturer's like Wheels Manufacturing and North Shore Billet to make us a billet version of this hanger/nut. I would much rather pay $50 for a good billet hanger/nut than $21 for this piece of junk stock hanger.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

fripp said:


> After doing the 32T switch i said screw it and went with the raceface 30T NW and went 1x10. Love it - 30T and the 36 in the back was PLENTY for the climbs I have.
> 
> How easy is it to do this token thing? I set my shock to 90psi (i'm 225) and i seems fine to me. I used the bright red ring to see how far up i travel and i never bottomed out on any drop or anything else. Am I missing something?


90PSI really? And you don't bottom it out? 90PSI is for rider weight of 140lbs or less. Per the chart on the leg @ 220# recommend 135PSI+ - at 100PSI (what it had when delivered by MOTO) I could almost bottom it out by just bunny hopping. The token install is very simple - remove air from fork, 24mm socket on air cylinder top cap. Remove top cap, thread token onto bottom of top cap (tokens are threaded top and bottom so you can create a stack of one to four for the Bluto). Reassemble by screwing in top cap, add air.

I am three clicks out from full bunny on the rebound, may add one more click and see how it does.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> Sounds like they sent you a normal X5 crankset and not a fat bike crankset.
> Measure the spindle length to be sure...


It is the fat bike version, I'm sure of that. Just the regular kind though, not the kind for 190mm rear hubs.



tfinator said:


> Imagining this, I'd assume you're right. But, cranks only take 5-10 minutes to switch, so it's probably best to give it a shot.


I'm either a perfectionist or an idiot, but I could never properly remove and install a crankset in 10 minutes. I really take my time with bike stuff. Anyway, I'm sure it would *fit*, but to tell whether it would *work* would take a test ride, and maybe even redefining to myself what it means to be 'functional' (heel strike, etc).

And if I end up needing to sell it, value just went from new to used.



lyleberry said:


> IMO the stock chainline is awful. The big ring is way too far outboard, while the small ring is about centerline of the cassette. I think they spaced it out too far just so the chain would clear the tire even with 5in tires installed. I'm actually going to a 1x10 with the stock crank but just using a 28t 64BCD ring- the overall alignment is perfect... right in the middle of the cassette.
> 
> I'd say try it with the crank they sent you. Just sight down the rings once it's installed. If they're more or less lined up with the 4th and 6th cog then you should be perfect. If the spindle still isn't long enough with the spacers taken out though, you'll probably just have to Ebay the cranks you have and put the money towards something else unfortunately....


Both of these ideas are good, but I really don't want to settle, telling myself "oh well" when BD should actually fix the issue instead of just giving me something worth XX% as much as the part I need to fix the issue.



car_nut said:


> Neons97 replied correctly to your original post about this:
> 
> SRAM doesn't make a crank for 190mm bikes to my knowledge. Assuming it's an X5 Fat crank, it'll fit your BB fine with the chainline moved in 10mm. If you only use the big ring and mount it to the outside position on the crank, you should be good in terms of chainline and tire clearance. You might have issues with heal strike on the chainstays.
> 
> If you'd like to keep it 2x and maintain tire/chain clearance, you'll need something else. Race Face and Surly are pretty much the only game in town right now for aftermarket 190mm cranks.


Thanks, I actually never saw his post before... could have saved me some time.

But what you two are saying is pretty much exactly what I expected.



fripp said:


> Yeah i researched this and found you can only do a single ring up front and still use this. I bought the raceface turbine 190 ready crank and its great if you need a replacement. If you want one ring up front, add the 30T NW and it'll work out sweet


Maybe, thanks. I'll check out that crankset, too.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

IF...the 170mm spacing crank clears, and you are willing to live with a different chainline and less chain-to-tire clearance, you may also have issues where the front derailleur will not shift to the granny. Seeing how the FD is mounted to the frame, there may not be enough travel on the FD to drop the chain to the granny of a 170mm spacing crank.

However, given your situation, I would count my blessings for the following reasons:

1.) The X5's are about the same "value" as the Samox cranks
2.) The X5's are more desireable in the used market, than Samox, so you should be able to sell them faster, and for more money (or the same)
3.) There are more 170 spaced frames than 190 spaced frames on the market. So it widens your potential buyer base.

If I had an issue with my crank, I would much rather get $125 credit, then an X5 crank, then a replacement Samox crank...in that order.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

neons97 said:


> IF...the 170mm spacing crank clears, and you are willing to live with a different chainline and less chain-to-tire clearance, you may also have issues where the front derailleur will not shift to the granny. Seeing how the FD is mounted to the frame, there may not be enough travel on the FD to drop the chain to the granny of a 170mm spacing crank.
> 
> However, given your situation, I would count my blessings for the following reasons:
> 
> ...


Exactly. So I'm awaiting their decision but am thinking I might have to sell the X5 on Ebay and add in $100 or so and get a Race Face Turbine.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

A Race Face Turbine, 190mm spacing, old style (not CINCH), with BB can be had for around $170 new. You should be able to sell a brand new X5 for around $100-$125 (if they include the bottom bracket). So about $50-70 out of pocket, but for a hugely upgraded crank.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

neons97 said:


> A Race Face Turbine, 190mm spacing, old style (not CINCH), with BB can be had for around $170 new. You should be able to sell a brand new X5 for around $100-$125 (if they include the bottom bracket). So about $50-70 out of pocket, but for a hugely upgraded crank.


Sure, and maybe I should consider it an excellent opportunity to upgrade for cheap. But it's really bothering me that the rep is _insisting_ that it doesn't matter and the X5 will work fine. As if the frame/spacer designers just felt like using a special crankset for no reason.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

My experience is similar to Destr0's, as I can use most of the travel just preloading the fork. I'm at 150psi for a 200# rider. Kills small bump absorption in favor of more platform. I ordered a stack of tokens, and will likely try 3 of them. I don't understand the fascination with making naturally progressive air springs so darned linear. Doesn't make sense for the application.

On another note, I'm interested in running a dinglespeed with 26T N/W 64bcd ring. Anyone tried this and/or know where they are in stock?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

lyleberry said:


> IMO the stock chainline is awful. The big ring is way too far outboard, while the small ring is about centerline of the cassette. I think they spaced it out too far just so the chain would clear the tire even with 5in tires installed. I'm actually going to a 1x10 with the stock crank but just using a 28t 64BCD ring- the overall alignment is perfect... right in the middle of the cassette.
> 
> I'd say try it with the crank they sent you. Just sight down the rings once it's installed. If they're more or less lined up with the 4th and 6th cog then you should be perfect. If the spindle still isn't long enough with the spacers taken out though, you'll probably just have to Ebay the cranks you have and put the money towards something else unfortunately....


I'd like to go 1x10, but am concerned about chain line. Have you done this yet? I don't really feel like buying a new crank. Would like to put a 30t up front and a 42t out back and get rid of the FD.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> 90PSI really? And you don't bottom it out? 90PSI is for rider weight of 140lbs or less. Per the chart on the leg @ 220# recommend 135PSI+ - at 100PSI (what it had when delivered by MOTO) I could almost bottom it out by just bunny hopping. The token install is very simple - remove air from fork, 24mm socket on air cylinder top cap. Remove top cap, thread token onto bottom of top cap (tokens are threaded top and bottom so you can create a stack of one to four for the Bluto). Reassemble by screwing in top cap, add air.
> 
> I am three clicks out from full bunny on the rebound, may add one more click and see how it does.


I'm about dead center on the bunny/turtle switch. Perhaps thats it?


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

AllMountin' said:


> My experience is similar to Destr0's, as I can use most of the travel just preloading the fork. I'm at 150psi for a 200# rider. Kills small bump absorption in favor of more platform. I ordered a stack of tokens, and will likely try 3 of them. I don't understand the fascination with making naturally progressive air springs so darned linear. Doesn't make sense for the application.
> 
> On another note, I'm interested in running a dinglespeed with 26T N/W 64bcd ring. Anyone tried this and/or know where they are in stock?


I'm a bit out to lunch with the bluto stuff (and my reba on my 29er too). When I got it, I took the red ring, pulled it to the bottom and saw where it ended up after my ride. It was about half way, so I let some air out. Repeated and eventually got near the top (maybe 1 inch from top) at 90psi.

Am I doing something wrong with my setup? If so, if someone could just do a point form setup for me, that'd be sweet as I'm a shock noob.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

fripp said:


> I'm about dead center on the bunny/turtle switch. Perhaps thats it?


That should be only rebound damping - how fast the fork returns to normal height after the lowers come up from a bump. Is the lockout lever all the way to open? The lockout lever can also be used to adjust compression damping (making the fork harder to compress). Could be new stickiness? I had a RS that out of the box was very stiff and took a good 100 miles of trail rides to break it in. Did not have that problem with this fork. If you are happy with it that is what matters - I was not happy with mine out of the box. It was OK - either not blowing through travel OR small bump compliance, I could not find a happy medium (or I quit looking after seeing the thread on Bluto tuning and other big guys putting in more tokens).

That said, I am thinking of removing tokens from my son's Reba now. He only weighs 70lbs so getting his shock to move at all is tough. Hard to set these forks at only 45lbs of air...


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> That should be only rebound damping - how fast the fork returns to normal height after the lowers come up from a bump. Is the lockout lever all the way to open? The lockout lever can also be used to adjust compression damping (making the fork harder to compress). Could be new stickiness? I had a RS that out of the box was very stiff and took a good 100 miles of trail rides to break it in. Did not have that problem with this fork. If you are happy with it that is what matters - I was not happy with mine out of the box. It was OK - either not blowing through travel OR small bump compliance, I could not find a happy medium (or I quit looking after seeing the thread on Bluto tuning and other big guys putting in more tokens).
> 
> That said, I am thinking of removing tokens from my son's Reba now. He only weighs 70lbs so getting his shock to move at all is tough. Hard to set these forks at only 45lbs of air...


Maybe I need to let all the air out and start it again. Will also double check the pressure. So what do the tokens do?


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

fripp said:


> Maybe I need to let all the air out and start it again. Will also double check the pressure. So what do the tokens do?


So I drained it and filled it again. It was actually at 80. When its 90 (now) I can put all my 220 on the front and only get it down to an inch from top. Strange?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

That seems really stiff for only 90PSI - I will check mine when I get home but at 125PSI with me in riding position I am at about 20% sag, and on a 120mm fork is roughly an inch - that is with me just sitting on the bike. If I really put weight on the front it goes down farther than that. 

And to your question on what the bottomless tokens do - they make the shock more progressive, so the farther down the fork sinks, the harder it gets to keep moving down. Air shocks are progressive by nature (spring forks are linear), but a lot of tuning has been done to make them more linear. That works fine if you are of average size and ride "average" - I tend to be on the larger and more aggressive of riding styles. Just riding my fork I only want about 75% of the travel used. I want lots of give left for those sudden big hits (drops and jumps) - bottoming out an air fork can cause permanent damage (I say CAN, because it isn't supposed to if it happens once in a while, but it will damage it if a really hard hit or repeated bottoming out).


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> That seems really stiff for only 90PSI - I will check mine when I get home but at 125PSI with me in riding position I am at about 20% sag, and on a 120mm fork is roughly an inch - that is with me just sitting on the bike. If I really put weight on the front it goes down farther than that.
> 
> And to your question on what the bottomless tokens do - they make the shock more progressive, so the farther down the fork sinks, the harder it gets to keep moving down. Air shocks are progressive by nature (spring forks are linear), but a lot of tuning has been done to make them more linear. That works fine if you are of average size and ride "average" - I tend to be on the larger and more aggressive of riding styles. Just riding my fork I only want about 75% of the travel used. I want lots of give left for those sudden big hits (drops and jumps) - bottoming out an air fork can cause permanent damage (I say CAN, because it isn't supposed to if it happens once in a while, but it will damage it if a really hard hit or repeated bottoming out).


Is there some kind of routine I should follow to set this thing up properly? Maybe I lucked out or maybe I don't know what I am doing all together?


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

neons97 said:


> On my 2nd ride, I broke it....can't ride until I get some replacement parts.
> 
> At the end of the ride, I leaned my bike up against a tree. It fell over on the drivetrain side, and the derailleur hanger bent so badly that the derailleur cage was in the spokes. Knowing it was aluminum, I knew I had no options. So i still bent it "straight" and got the dreaded "snap".
> 
> ...


Mine was bent in packing so they sent me a replacement. I agree - I was surprised how lightweight these are!
Fortunately I was able to bend mine back without cracking it, so I'll have an emergency spare. 
BTW, they only have silver replacements, so I had to paint it before I could use it. 
No way these should be more than $5.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

GT_guy said:


> Mine was bent in packing so they sent me a replacement. I agree - I was surprised how lightweight these are!
> Fortunately I was able to bend mine back without cracking it, so I'll have an emergency spare.
> BTW, they only have silver replacements, so I had to paint it before I could use it.
> No way these should be more than $5.


Sounds like I should pull mine and make some at work, machine shop.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

siv said:


> Sounds like I should pull mine and make some at work, machine shop.


There is and will be a market for these. The stock ones are complete junk AND overpriced.

I think bd made more money off my two hangers than they did selling me my entire bike!


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

siv said:


> Sounds like I should pull mine and make some at work, machine shop.


siv, if you can make some of these I will be in for two. I ordered a spare from BD and after looking at it I have little faith these original hangers will last long. It looks like a little bump will do them in.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

mtb_fun said:


> siv, if you can make some of these I will be in for two. I ordered a spare from BD and after looking at it I have little faith these original hangers will last long. It looks like a little bump will do them in.


I'll let you guys know if I get to it, pretty busy right now. Maybe in a couple weeks when the bosses are outta town.


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

siv said:


> I'll let you guys know if I get to it, pretty busy right now. Maybe in a couple weeks when the bosses are outta town.


Definitely a market for these and I'd be in for one or two myself. I suggest starting a new thread if you decide to make some.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

rkzhao said:


> People have squeezed Knards on Stans Flows and Crests so a 25mm inner width rim should work, it's just not ideal. With Flows, some people say it rides fine, others talk about weird cornering traction or lacking a true 29+ feel.


I ordered some of these cheapo Innova Gravity Vidars (29x3.0) and will give it a shot. It might be a while before I can give any meaningful feedback, though (I ruptured a disk in my back last week)...

Amazon.com : Innova 29 x 3.0 Fat Bike Tire With Tube! Gravity Vidar Black 29 Inch Package : Sports & Outdoors


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Ok, so, i've pretty much ridden this bike as my only bike (I also have a 29er) for a few weeks now, trying different pressures, sags, conditions etc to see how it all went. The thing I have noticed most is that these fat bikes are beasts to ride! 

I'm not trying to point out the obvious here, but the heaviness of these bikes and the slowness I feel i have when I am on it are crazy compared to my 29er. Just to clarify, I am running the 4.8 inch bud and lou combo on an XL NTB, and last time I weighed it with all my mods it was about 35 pounds or so.

Anyway, I guess a part of me planned on riding this one just like I do my 29er except for crushing everything in sight. Actually, the crushing continues, but I constantly stop when I ride this thing every so often to give my legs a break. Thats really something I don't do with the 29er.

I'm wondering if its just the huge slow rolling knobby Bud/Lou that have me slowed down, or maybe a style of pedaling that isn't a good one for fat biking... not sure.

I have only had the pleasure of riding in the snow for about 2 miles so far, and during that time, the bud and lou traction and slowness I actually appreciated as I wasn't looking to go fast anyway! 

So, maybe these bikes really are more suitable for snow when you have these big ass tires on them, and my expectations should be reconfigured. I was never looking to replace the 29er, I love that bike, just figured this would be a fatter version of it. As a side note, I do have a pair of Husker Dus I found super cheap online to try out and I've heard they were faster rolling. I figured I'd use those in the spring/fall and the bud and lou in the snow mainly.

Anyone else having their ass kicked when they ride? I appreciate the workout, trust me, but I honestly feel like either I'm doing something wrong or I'm out of shape!

I also meant to mention I have had the tires at 12psi, 10psi and 8psi on my non-snow singletrack rooty and leafy trails. Higher psi bounced more, but lower felt even slower. I think somewhere 9-10 would be a good compromise.

Thanks!


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Per my GPS my MPH average when riding the Sturgis Bullet and my 29er hard tail are within .2 MPH of each other. The 29er being faster, but I expect to catch up once I build up more strength. The fat bike weighs 7 or so more lbs - but it does have a lot more rolling resistance, but it carries more inertia on short steep climbs (just about the only thing we have here). 

I don't feel any slower when riding - and I certainly am having more fun and trying more obstacles and harder lines than I am used to (could also be slowing me down).

Now when my son rides his Pugsley vs. his Horsethief we slow down a lot. A 33# bike and a 70lb kid really taxes his strength, but he keeps wanting to ride it (he is about 50/50 between the two bikes).

;-)


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Yeah, its definitely easier on any obstacles for sure. It almost takes the challenge out of it lol.

What tire pressures do you run?


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

fripp said:


> Anyone else having their ass kicked when they ride? I appreciate the workout, trust me, but I honestly feel like either I'm doing something wrong or I'm out of shape!


I agree with pretty much all your thoughts. I've got two full suspension 29ers (XC & trail) along with a SS hardtail. The Night Train is my least favorite of the three on dirt. I have a ~1.5mi ride to the trail head on pavement, and it's just brutal. I'm hitting _maybe _12mph at an effort that would yield 20mph on either of my other bikes. I'm 1x on both of my geared bikes yet I'm living in the granny gear on my NT. For rock crawling or wet roots it's fantastic, but as an overall trail bike it's not a good fit for me.

On snow however, it does what I expected. Trails that would be a nonstarter on my conventional bikes were readily passable on the NT. It was a high effort affair, but that was expected. My hope is that I'll manage to stay off the couch this winter because of it which was the intent. While I consider it less fun than my other bikes, I'd still rather mash out a road century on this thing than spend 30 minutes on a trainer.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Yeah, I definitely accomplished what I was looking to do - bike in the winter. Thats for sure, and instead of cursing the winter, I'm actually wishing it would snow! That in itself is worth the money I spent entirely.

I guess I wondered though if there was some kind of tweak I needed to do with my current setup that would have me in a better place while riding the 'normal' trails. My Kona 29er is a 20 inch and I always found a little small for me, but I got used to the size over the last few years. When I bought the NTB, I went for the 21 inch just thinking I would be able to spread out a little bit. (I'm 6' 5")

I'll have to look at my body position / seat height etc again.

Thanks for the input!


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

car_nut said:


> I agree with pretty much all your thoughts. I've got two full suspension 29ers (XC & trail) along with a SS hardtail. The Night Train is my least favorite of the three on dirt. I have a ~1.5mi ride to the trail head on pavement, and it's just brutal. I'm hitting _maybe _12mph at an effort that would yield 20mph on either of my other bikes. I'm 1x on both of my geared bikes yet I'm living in the granny gear on my NT. For rock crawling or wet roots it's fantastic, but as an overall trail bike it's not a good fit for me.
> 
> On snow however, it does what I expected. Trails that would be a nonstarter on my conventional bikes were readily passable on the NT. It was a high effort affair, but that was expected. My hope is that I'll manage to stay off the couch this winter because of it which was the intent. While I consider it less fun than my other bikes, I'd still rather mash out a road century on this thing than spend 30 minutes on a trainer.


You still on the Vee Snowshoe tires? Perhaps its these snow tires that are just slow rolling that's the real issue here. That would explain the brutal pavement 1.5 miles you have to go. Weight on hills is one thing, but once you get going, you'd think weight on flat wouldn't have too much of an effect.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

I did the same thing as Destr0 and checked my Strava info. I am about 1.0 mph slower right now than I was in the middle of summer last year for comparable rides (mileage, terrain, and climbing footies). 

I was off the bike for 6 weeks prior to getting my NTB so (I'd like to think) some of it is losing fitness now as compared to being my most fit in the middle of summer last year.

My descending is definitely better now with the Bluto/Bud/Lou combo (Strava PRs). My climbing is not great...part being a heavier bike and most of it being me out of shape and overweight. This bike is definitely stiffer compared to my 29er and any input to the pedals moves it forward.

I think it will be easier to see how much impact the weight of the bike has on my "performance" when the middle of summer comes around and comparing numbers then. For reference, I am not a racer...I just get out and ride for the fun of it.

The cool thing for me is that I am enjoying riding the NTB so much. It is just a fun bike to ride. I figure anything that encourages me to spend more time on the bike is a good thing.

This is my only bike so it is my summer/winter/commuter rig. It does handle differently than my rigid 29er but I am liking it a lot more than my 29er.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

fripp said:


> You still on the Vee Snowshoe tires? Perhaps its these snow tires that are just slow rolling that's the real issue here. That would explain the brutal pavement 1.5 miles you have to go. Weight on hills is one thing, but once you get going, you'd think weight on flat wouldn't have too much of an effect.


I'm all but certain it's the tires (still on snowshoes). I rarely notice the weight difference between my SS hardtail with no pack/water vs trail bike with full pack. Ikons vs Minions between those same two bikes however is obvious. My stretch of road to the trail head has little in the way of elevation, so weight impact should be almost nonexistent. Coasting (or attempting to) tells the full story to me. The rate at which you dump speed as the tires roar beneath you is impressive.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

OnThaCouch said:


> The cool thing for me is that I am enjoying riding the NTB so much. It is just a fun bike to ride. I figure anything that encourages me to spend more time on the bike is a good thing.
> 
> This is my only bike so it is my summer/winter/commuter rig. It does handle differently than my rigid 29er but I am liking it a lot more than my 29er.


Couldn't agree more!! And your build is quite impressive. Very nice! Glad to hear you've been having so much fun. That's all that really matters here anyway


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

car_nut said:


> I'm all but certain it's the tires (still on snowshoes). I rarely notice the weight difference between my SS hardtail with no pack/water vs trail bike with full pack. Ikons vs Minions between those same two bikes however is obvious. My stretch of road to the trail head has little in the way of elevation, so weight impact should be almost nonexistent. Coasting (or attempting to) tells the full story to me. The rate at which you dump speed as the tires roar beneath you is impressive.


So i guess maybe I'm not as out of shape as I thought - its just the chunky ass Bud and Lou combo that's the slowest rolling mf'ers in town! I put them on the night I got the UPS delivery of the bike and its my only fat bike experience so far.

What I should have done is try out the Huskers I bought which are supposed to be faster rolling.

Don't get me wrong, I'm super glad to have the bud and lou and they will come in handy as soon as we get some snow that stays, but where I live (Central OH) is annoying this time of year because we rarely get snow.

Ah well, gotta use the right tool for the right job! Should just be on my 29er still since all we have is frigid (but dry) conditions.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I am running the stock tires still - I have only done about 1/2 mile or so on pavement with them each ride (bike path connecting two sections of single track). I am running 12 PSI up front and 10 PSI in the rear. I tried higher and lower pressures and in the non-snow dirt I like these pressures the best. Trails have been frozen my last two rides, but no snow and only a bit of ice. If the trails ice over badly I may DIY some studs.


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## fletchercole (Dec 2, 2014)

I am trying to decide between the Boris The Evil Brut Sprung and the Night Train Bullet. Both are listed at the same sales price. I compared the specifications, and as near as I can tell, the only difference are the Derailleurs and Shifters. NTB has SRAM X7 up front, while the Boris has Shimano Deore. NTB has SRAM X9 in back and Boris has Shimano SLX. NTB has SRAM SL Trigger X7 while Boris has Shimano SL M610 Deore. Which bike has the superior components?

Also, obviously, the frame shape is different, with the Boris having the bent top tube. Are there any drawbacks to the bent top tube? It would seem to offer a bit more stand over clearance vs the NTB.

Any comments to help me decide between the two would be appreciated.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Given the specs I would say the NTB has the better specs -
The X7 shifters are more expensive than the Deore (I would say the X7 is closer to SLX level). 
The X7 Front derailleur is more expensive than the Deore as well.

X9 rear is better than the SLX - I would put the X9 on par with Shimano XT. The SLX and X9 are about the same price, but XT is only a few dollars more (real street prices).

Just my thoughts, and in building two bikes in the last couple months I have the best prices on this stuff bookmarked. I also like the Sram drivetrain better - unless the Boris came with SLX and XT, then my vote would swing the other way.


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## GaryBee (Jul 5, 2007)

Here is a very rough idea of what the difference in top tubes is.

I used a red Sturgis Bullet inseatd of a NTB as the red shows better.

The bikes are also sized a bit different with the Brut being 15,17,19, 21 vs the NTB at 15.5, 17.5, 19,5 and 21.5. This 1/2 inch difference can be seen in the photo by the height of the seat post clamp.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

Also check the geometry differences, last I checked, the Boris blah-blah-blah had an even longer wheelbase and chainstays than the Sturgis/NT. If they haven't changed the geo since then, the Boris would be real long. Not good for tighter trails.


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## rkzhao (Sep 18, 2014)

fletchercole said:


> I am trying to decide between the Boris The Evil Brut Sprung and the Night Train Bullet. Both are listed at the same sales price. I compared the specifications, and as near as I can tell, the only difference are the Derailleurs and Shifters. NTB has SRAM X7 up front, while the Boris has Shimano Deore. NTB has SRAM X9 in back and Boris has Shimano SLX. NTB has SRAM SL Trigger X7 while Boris has Shimano SL M610 Deore. Which bike has the superior components?
> 
> Also, obviously, the frame shape is different, with the Boris having the bent top tube. Are there any drawbacks to the bent top tube? It would seem to offer a bit more stand over clearance vs the NTB.
> 
> Any comments to help me decide between the two would be appreciated.


You got the specs wrong.

The Evil Brut has Shimano XT components. I'd much rather use those than any 2x10 Sram stuff. Frame geo is your own preference. Curved top tube is for stand over height, straight is more for aesthetics. One other frame difference is that Night Train is thru axle in the back as well where as The Evil Brut is QR. Thru axle is better.

The specs you are listing off sounds more like the Brut Sprung, which is essentially the same comparison to the Sturgis. Again, I'd go with the Shimano components over the same Sram level stuff but prefer thru axle over qr.

Basically, I would say I prefer the Boris bikes for gruppo but prefer the Sturgis/Night Train frame. If they offered a Night Train/Sturgis frame with an XT build, I might actually be tempted to get a BD fat bike to add to the quiver.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

baker said:


> I ordered some of these cheapo Innova Gravity Vidars (29x3.0) and will give it a shot. It might be a while before I can give any meaningful feedback, though (I ruptured a disk in my back last week)...
> 
> Amazon.com : Innova 29 x 3.0 Fat Bike Tire With Tube! Gravity Vidar Black 29 Inch Package : Sports & Outdoors


I would be VERY interested to hear your thoughts on throwing the 3 inch tires on! Keep us posted please.


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

Anyone done a dropper post yet? How did you route the cable? I'm thinking of using the internal routing from taking off the left shifter. I think it may be to long of a run to do the reverb hose. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

trailwerks said:


> Anyone done a dropper post yet? How did you route the cable? I'm thinking of using the internal routing from taking off the left shifter. I think it may be to long of a run to do the reverb hose.


I put my reverb on it for the winter. I ran it on the bottom of the top tube using a sticky mount I had. I think the mount came with the post? Not sure. I also didn't want to buy a new hose, so I had to work with what it had on the donor bike.


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

trailwerks said:


> Anyone done a dropper post yet? How did you route the cable? I'm thinking of using the internal routing from taking off the left shifter. I think it may be to long of a run to do the reverb hose.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I removed my front shifter and ran it internally, then under the BB and up a guide tube (Specialized 100mm command post, so the cable has to go up and down with the post)

I would have rather run the rear brake internally, but then it would have been on the wrong side of the head tube and would be all wonky. If I had run it inside then I would have run the dropper under the TT with a sticky mount or two.

They really screwed up by not bothering to make the internal routing ports double-wide, at least on the left side. Its a shame because the quality of the frame it honestly so good, yet such a basic consideration is left out. I though about taking a rattail file to them but decided against if (for now)


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

fletchercole said:


> I am trying to decide between the Boris The Evil Brut Sprung and the Night Train Bullet. Both are listed at the same sales price. I compared the specifications, and as near as I can tell, the only difference are the Derailleurs and Shifters. NTB has SRAM X7 up front, while the Boris has Shimano Deore. NTB has SRAM X9 in back and Boris has Shimano SLX. NTB has SRAM SL Trigger X7 while Boris has Shimano SL M610 Deore. Which bike has the superior components?
> 
> Also, obviously, the frame shape is different, with the Boris having the bent top tube. Are there any drawbacks to the bent top tube? It would seem to offer a bit more stand over clearance vs the NTB.
> 
> Any comments to help me decide between the two would be appreciated.


I had the same conundrum, only with the rigid Brut and Night Train. I went with the Night Train for the following reasons:

1) Even though I prefer Shimano, the SRAM derailleurs offer an easier switch to Grip Shift if I want to go that route later on.

2) I liked the thru-axles better than quick release, and the sliding dropouts of the Boris wasn't something I wanted to deal with.

3) I'm a big fan of internal cable routing.

4) I was going to change the cranks regardless, and the Night Train had the cheaper of the two Samox cranksets, making the RaceFace Turbines a more palatable expense.

I'm sure I would have been happy with the Boris, but ultimately, the pros and cons put the Night Train on top. Just my two cents...SC


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## GaryBee (Jul 5, 2007)

The difference between the two bikes that has me puzzled is that the Brut has a non symmetrical rear triangle which looks to me like it moves the cassette 5 mm inwards towards the bikes center line versus the Night Train

Does anyone know why they would do this?

To me it messes up the chain line for the 36 tooth gear and means the rear wheel would need to be dished different than other bikes. Plus a little bit of clearance between the chain and tire would be lost. But I must be missing something.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

I did the same 12 mile ride that included 570 feet of climbing two nights in a row. Last night I rode my Specialized Camber Comp 29er and averaged 10.8 mph. Tonight I rode my Sturgis Bullet and averaged 10 mph. Both bikes have the same size chainrings and cassettes so that is same same. I could feel a major difference in the climbing, I definitely had to work harder on the Sturgis. It's all good because I will build more strength riding the fatty, and it will also help me not be such a fatty


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

lyleberry said:


> I removed my front shifter and ran it internally, then under the BB and up a guide tube (Specialized 100mm command post, so the cable has to go up and down with the post)
> 
> I would have rather run the rear brake internally, but then it would have been on the wrong side of the head tube and would be all wonky. If I had run it inside then I would have run the dropper under the TT with a sticky mount or two.
> 
> ...


A bit OT- what's your drive train look like? Did you get new cranks to go 1x, or did you just slap a different ring on the front?


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

For now I'm just running the 22/36 combo on the small ring. Once my 42t cog gets here in a few days I'll put a 28t as the small ring up front, and either have the 36t as a "dinglespeed" or take it off and put a 32t bashguard in its place. Either way I'm running it on the 64bcd ring on the stock cranks (with the spacers) since to me the big ring has really bad chainline- way too far outboard. 

I may eventually change out cranks but I'd much rather upgrade the rear der to an X9 (Type 1, not a fan of the Type 2s so far) or switch to an XO twist shifter first. I don't know about anyone else, but I just cannot get the stock rear setup to shift right. Maybe its the X5/X7 components, but I can't help but wonder if that weak derailleur hanger is actually flexing or what.


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

GaryBee said:


> Here is a very rough idea of what the difference in top tubes is.
> 
> I used a red Sturgis Bullet inseatd of a NTB as the red shows better.
> 
> ...


Glad to see I'm not the only one who did some photo-analysis too! Did the exact same thing with both the orig Boris plus Boris the Brut trying to decide on which to get- if the Brut had internal routing I would have waited for it just for the standover. It's not as nice looking of a frame but definitely more practical in the snow/sand. It was actually amazing how much accurate geometry numbers I was able to predict for the 17" Sturgis/Bluto using the photos of the 19"... using the 175mm crank as a reference and scaling other measurements from there. Very happy with how the 17" fits me at 6' tall.

I have no idea why the 190mm rear is split 100/90.... is the Sturgis/NT symmetrical? I would have thought they would have used the same wheelset but maybe not?


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

The Night Train is symmetrical. However, my rear wheel was dished improperly with a bias of about 1/2" toward the drive side. I gave the spokes a little love this evening and I was able to center the rim off the seat post quite well. It took about two full turns of each spoke, loosening the drive side and then tightening the non-drive spokes, and it brought it back to just about perfect. I have some 4.7 Vee Bulldozers on the way, so I wanted to even out the clearance. I should have plenty of room on either side now...SC


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## GaryBee (Jul 5, 2007)

lyleberry said:


> I have no idea why the 190mm rear is split 100/90.... is the Sturgis/NT symmetrical? I would have thought they would have used the same wheelset but maybe not?


Yes the Sturgis/NT is symmetrical at the rear with the 190mm split at 95/95 as shown in the first drawing. The second drawing for the Brut shows the 90/100 split that you noted.


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

If you remove the lower cable port in the downtube and look towards the seatpost you see an optimum place to drill a hole for an internal dropper post. Just haven't made up my mind if I want to do that though. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

perhaps already suggested, but for you folks thinking of routing dropper cables or what not... this stuff might be able to replace the stock covers... About Sugru | Sugru


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

I think comparing Strava speeds between bikes is pretty useless (there's way too many other factors going on to get a comparison more accurate than "slower"), but yes, my NightTrain Bullet wears me out like nothing I've ever ridden before. After I rode about 5 miles on pavement each way to the trail the other day, I've decided to take it via car from now on. Had to pedal vigorously just to hold about 10mph on the street.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

lyleberry said:


> For now I'm just running the 22/36 combo on the small ring. Once my 42t cog gets here in a few days I'll put a 28t as the small ring up front, and either have the 36t as a "dinglespeed" or take it off and put a 32t bashguard in its place. Either way I'm running it on the 64bcd ring on the stock cranks (with the spacers) since to me the big ring has really bad chainline- way too far outboard.
> 
> I may eventually change out cranks but I'd much rather upgrade the rear der to an X9 (Type 1, not a fan of the Type 2s so far) or switch to an XO twist shifter first. I don't know about anyone else, but I just cannot get the stock rear setup to shift right. Maybe its the X5/X7 components, but I can't help but wonder if that weak derailleur hanger is actually flexing or what.


Thanks. For the record, mine shifts perfect out of the box. Only thing I did was move FD more limit in 1/2 turn. Been 100 miles or so


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

tfinator said:


> Thanks. For the record, mine shifts perfect out of the box. Only thing I did was move FD more limit in 1/2 turn. Been 100 miles or so


Mine as well. I did adjust the limit screws on the FD when I swapped to the 32T front cog but have not even touched the RD at all, still shifting perfect after about 75 miles or so.


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

GaryBee said:


> The difference between the two bikes that has me puzzled is that the Brut has a non symmetrical rear triangle which looks to me like it moves the cassette 5 mm inwards towards the bikes center line versus the Night Train
> 
> Does anyone know why they would do this?
> 
> ...


If you look closely the 5mm offset is to the drive side which will give more chain clearance.

Doesn't explain why, but at least it's in the right direction.


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## GaryBee (Jul 5, 2007)

drmayer said:


> If you look closely the 5mm offset is to the drive side which will give more chain clearance.
> 
> Doesn't explain why, but at least it's in the right direction.


I see that your correct and on the Brut it moves the cassette 5 mm outwards. At least moving it outward makes sense! especially considering this earlier comment liyleberry made about the night train chain line.

lyleberry said " IMO the stock chainline is awful. The big ring is way too far outboard, while the small ring is about centerline of the cassette."


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## rkzhao (Sep 18, 2014)

BD isn't exactly known for their intricately thought out or brilliantly engineered frames. The bikes may be cheap and good valued but as the saying goes, the devil is in the details.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

rkzhao said:


> BD isn't exactly known for their intricately thought out or brilliantly engineered frames. The bikes may be cheap and good valued but as the saying goes, the devil is in the details.


In light of recent bearpaw recall, I would say this is not BD specific


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

rkzhao said:


> BD isn't exactly known for their intricately thought out or brilliantly engineered frames. The bikes may be cheap and good valued but as the saying goes, the devil is in the details.


I don't think that is a fair statement at all. With these 190mm frames, the ONLY reason to go 190mm is to fit a large 5" tire (i.e. 4.7-4.8" true to size). If they were to push the crank/chain ring inwards for better chainline, they will compromise chain-to-tire clearance. So when it rubs on a 4.8" tire, they'll have a bunch of customers complaining that there is no point to getting the 190mm frame when they can't run tires wider than on the 170mm frame.

Fat Bikes are in its infancy right now. The standards are ever changing. It is all about trade-offs and compromises right now. BD went "conservative" and ensured that they could boldly make the claim "fits 4.8" tires and not have to backtrack and have upset customers. This is at the sacrifice of a perfect chainline in the big ring. I would say the chainline in big-ring and large cog is bad. But if you stick to the bottom-half of the cog, the chainline is quite good.

Really, a 190mm rear should be run with 90-100mm rims, 4.8" tires, and true 120mm spindle cranks. Running 80mm rims, 4.5" tires and a 170mm OLD crank (i.e. me...) defeats the purpose of 190mm frames. This kind of set-up should be left for 170mm. But...I got the Night Train for the thru axle, and the possibility to run larger rims/tires in the future (i.e. future proof).


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## GaryBee (Jul 5, 2007)

Yep I totally agree that the fat bike is in its infancy right now and that BD is doing a good job with fat bikes.

What I am thinking is happening between the Brut and Night Train is that on the Brut they used a different rear triangle which is non symmetrical and moved the cassette out by 5 mm. This would improve the big ring large cog combination noted and the small-ring large cog combination. Maybe resulting in a better overall chain line for the Brut. 

The bikes have lots of differences but maybe with respect to chain line the Brut get the nod. I am not sure of this but it seems to make sense and would explain the new design. 

I know both bikes use 120mm spindle cranks but from the photos they are different. I tried to check if the geometry was the same but could not find that info.


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

silvbullit said:


> Also check the geometry differences, last I checked, the Boris blah-blah-blah had an even longer wheelbase and chainstays than the Sturgis/NT. If they haven't changed the geo since then, the Boris would be real long. Not good for tighter trails.


>> the head tube angle is also something to consider. many are switching to 68.5 or 69 degress, instead of 70-71.


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

I gave up trying twice to buy a NTB, emailed, called, added name to queue...nothing. sit and wait... so instead, after this went on for over a month, I called the-house.com and got an awesome deal on a Framed Minnesota 3.0 w/Bluto. They ship the bikes with both the rigid and bluto forks. and also have an option to ship with the 4.25" H-billies and 4.75" bulldozers. the gearing is a bit different, but the rest of the parts are really close, and the pricepont is within $50...and they SHIP NOW ; )

The frame geometry is a bit different... a bit slacker. and their new frame coming out in January, seems to have a lot of overall "fat bike" design problems solved. with a single chainring setup, too. I think they have surpassed BD in engineering capability, for a house brand direct-to-market company.

NOTE:

BD just posted Sturgis/Nighttrain Bluto framesets on their site.... $699. 1-2 month pre-pay. If they were in stock, I would have probably gotten one, and picked up the $299 150TA/190QR wheelset....but, I was not willing to wait on the frameset...

I was totally a pro-BD buyer, but their customer support really let me down lately.

and you can't actually CALL their tech people... it's all by email.

the-house.com has live people in sales, tech, and engineering. they are awesome at handling all inquires and are passionate about their brand-line.

I am not pitching them... I am merely saying BD better get their act together with all the mass market offerings about to erupt this year. Customer Service will make the difference of sales, or a lot of angry customers. this pre-pay way of getting buyers to fund the cost of manufacturing the bikes and paying their container shipping fees with their CC card charges months in advance is just not too cool.

Another bike to look out for... in this segment will be the Mongoose Argus. MSRP around $800, with very good specs and a paint job like the light blue Salsa Bucksaw.

I can't find it anywhere yet....

<<for anyone that ALREADY has a BD Fatty, awesome!!! enjoy it !! many of us never got the chance, yet >>


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

I don't think most people had problems ordering a night train, if they ordered them while they're still available. I believe a few people problems getting the actual bike they ordered. Did you try to order one in the last month or so? I tried to go to the Framed store in person, but somebody closed a major highway in Minneapolis that day without telling me, and it became impractical for me to add on a trip to St. Paul (where I usually can't find anything anyway). So I decided St. Paul isn't really local, and my cost to return to that store would be pretty high.


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## jazzer2 (Aug 14, 2006)

*Fork too long?*

Ok, I'm trying to put my finger on what has been bothering me about my Sturgis Bluto. I'm feeling like the front end is way too long - it steers like a chopper in sand, which is not a good thing. Besides having to wrestle with the steering and the floppy front wheel, I keep getting overseer and cutting to the inside of every turn. These are all symptoms of a long, slack fork.

It was my impression that BD just took the standard Sturgis/Nighttrain frame and stuck a big ol bluto on there without adjusting for the fork length. So I did a little PhotoShop comparison between a Sturgis with a rigid and a Bulto fork and, low and behold, it looks like the Bluto changes the geometry SIGNIFICANTLY.

Black with Bluto in front of an orange rigid.









You can see that the Bluto completely changes all of the angles of the bike making the front end long and slack and the top tube way higher.

This is not the away to design a bike. Those frames where designed with a certain axle to crown distance and the long fork throws that out the window. When bike manufacturers obsess over every single degree in every angle, you can't just change everything and expect it to perform the same.

This may not be as much an issue in the larger frames, but in a small its significant.

I would really need to do this comparison with two real bikes of the same size. Can someone with a rigid measure the fork reach for comparison?

So I'm thinking that I should reduce the fork travel down to 100mm to improve the handling. Has anyone tried this yet?


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

jazzer2 said:


> Ok, I'm trying to put my finger on what has been bothering me about my Sturgis Bluto. I'm feeling like the front end is way too long - it steers like a chopper in sand, which is not a good thing. Besides having to wrestle with the steering and the floppy front wheel, I keep getting overseer and cutting to the inside of every turn. These are all symptoms of a long, slack fork.
> 
> It was my impression that BD just took the standard Sturgis/Nighttrain frame and stuck a big ol bluto on there without adjusting for the fork length. So I did a little PhotoShop comparison between a Sturgis with a rigid and a Bulto fork and, low and behold, it looks like the Bluto changes the geometry SIGNIFICANTLY.
> 
> ...


This is exactly why I am going to set up my Bluto for 100mm travel. I even considered 80mm.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

You are also looking at a bike without any sag. The sag on a bluto should be 25-30%, bringing the angles a lot closer than your picture suggests. Funny how a couple post above someone says the HT angles on "modern" bikes are a lot more slack, then this post that the slack angle caused by a Bluto is destroying the handling... Which is it???

I personally love the way my Sturgis handles, but then again I am riding an XL where maybe the difference isn't so pronounced, or I just like the slacker angle??? No idea. I do have a 100mm Bluto I could swap on, but not going to do that because I like mine the way it is, although the urge to buy a Bud/Lou or Lou/Lou combo has become stronger every time I go to the LBS and see them.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Destr0 said:


> You are also looking at a bike without any sag. The sag on a bluto should be 25-30%, bringing the angles a lot closer than your picture suggests. Funny how a couple post above someone says the HT angles on "modern" bikes are a lot more slack, then this post that the slack angle caused by a Bluto is destroying the handling... Which is it???
> 
> I personally love the way my Sturgis handles, but then again I am riding an XL where maybe the difference isn't so pronounced, or I just like the slacker angle??? No idea. I do have a 100mm Bluto I could swap on, but not going to do that because I like mine the way it is, although the urge to buy a Bud/Lou or Lou/Lou combo has become stronger every time I go to the LBS and see them.


I have a 17.5" with the 120mm (stock) Bluto (sage set at 20%) and love the way it handles. Just to further temp Destr0  I have mine set up on a Bud/Lou combo and lovin' it :thumbsup::thumbsup:.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

I have the size and small and I think it handles fine. It can cut to the inside of turns with self steer, but I can usually fix that with tire pressure


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

OnThaCouch said:


> I have a 17.5" with the 120mm (stock) Bluto (sage set at 20%) and love the way it handles. Just to further temp Destr0  I have mine set up on a Bud/Lou combo and lovin' it :thumbsup::thumbsup:.


Well considering I have spent a ton on bikes right now, unless I have some serious issues in snow (we have yet to have any accumulation, just a bunch of dustings), I am going to wait until next winter for the big meaty tires.  I did just buy a second Bluto rather than the ICT rigid fork I was budgeting...


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Hey guys...Just got the msg from Wheels Manufacturing about our soft replaceable derailleur hanger/TA nut

_We actually have sourced an original and are looking into the possibility of production. I'll keep you posted on any updates.

Thanks, 
Nick​_
Email them up and let them know there is demand!!!

[email protected]


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> You are also looking at a bike without any sag. The sag on a bluto should be 25-30%, bringing the angles a lot closer than your picture suggests. Funny how a couple post above someone says the HT angles on "modern" bikes are a lot more slack, then this post that the slack angle caused by a Bluto is destroying the handling... Which is it???
> 
> I personally love the way my Sturgis handles, but then again I am riding an XL where maybe the difference isn't so pronounced, or I just like the slacker angle??? No idea. I do have a 100mm Bluto I could swap on, but not going to do that because I like mine the way it is, although the urge to buy a Bud/Lou or Lou/Lou combo has become stronger every time I go to the LBS and see them.


I rode in the swampiest conditions I have ridden my local trail in yesterday with my Bud / Lou and frankly, those mf'ers are amazing. I have a Kenda Nevegal on my 29er and that front tire is pretty aggressive and would not handle the muddy stuff I went through. However, the bud and lou really are velcro. Even wet parallel roots were okay - just amazing. Get em. Sell the Vees (i did) and get a B&L!


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

Done! +rep for you for taking the lead on this! :thumbsup:



neons97 said:


> Hey guys...Just got the msg from Wheels Manufacturing about our soft replaceable derailleur hanger/TA nut
> 
> _We actually have sourced an original and are looking into the possibility of production. I'll keep you posted on any updates.
> 
> ...


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

fripp said:


> I rode in the swampiest conditions I have ridden my local trail in yesterday with my Bud / Lou and frankly, those mf'ers are amazing. I have a Kenda Nevegal on my 29er and that front tire is pretty aggressive and would not handle the muddy stuff I went through. However, the bud and lou really are velcro. Even wet parallel roots were okay - just amazing. Get em. Sell the Vees (i did) and get a B&L!


I will if you give me the money!  I really want to since the Sturgis is slated to become the winter/bad weather bike only - however my Bucksaw frame is still not paid for so no spending money on bikes until I settle that $1700 bill. ;-)
I wish I would have figured out earlier that I could just use the 4.5 snowshoes on the Bucksaw (the do clear the rear on my small 47mm rims)- then I could have gotten bigger tires for the Moto- I have a set of new H-Billie and Snowshoe in boxes waiting to go on the Bucksaw, as well as about $2K worth of other parts (wheels, drivetrain, a second Bluto...).


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Sell stuff! Seriously, find a way, its totally worth it. Not sure you will be happy with the snow shoes - from what I read they don't grip too much. (although if you don't have super steep stuff, maybe they are fine). Also heard get nates instead of bud/lou if fit is an issue since they are grippers too.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

anybody got a green one they can post some pictures of?


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

this is EXACTLY what has been bothering me too, about the setup... everyone else is using 100mm Bluto's, and frames like the 9:zero:7, prior to 2014, are designed to usw 80mm Bluto's...for "Suspension correct" handling.

And when I looked at the Bluto versions at BD, they seemed jacked up into the air in the front. I was wondering "do they look too high in the front end..?"

Your visual comparison puts the wonder into fact. albeit, one could say, they -might- be different size frames, and tire pressure and stem length... etc etc... but all things considered, all the angles are clearly off, once you lined up the rear wheel axle. 

I will hazard a wild guess that without seeing one of these bikes in person, that the correct Bluto mod might have been an 80mm, instead of 120mm. 40mm difference is about 1.5 inches.


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## rkzhao (Sep 18, 2014)

fripp said:


> Sell stuff! Seriously, find a way, its totally worth it. Not sure you will be happy with the snow shoes - from what I read they don't grip too much. (although if you don't have super steep stuff, maybe they are fine). Also heard get nates instead of bud/lou if fit is an issue since they are grippers too.


B&L are pretty much the most aggressive 4.8 tires available right now. Of course they are going to grip like a mofo in conditions that calls for aggressive treads. Snowshoes are less aggressive but that by no means make them not good enough. There are plenty of conditions where a faster rolling tire may be more preferable. Snowshoes are also lighter for 120tpi but dunno about the 72tpi or whatever they have on the BD bikes.

That said, having more tire options is never a bad thing and considering you can get a set of B&L (or L&L) for less than $250, it's a pretty easy investment to make.

As for Nates, they are essentially skinnier Lous but I personally wouldn't get Nates on 80mm rims if the frame can fit Lous, especially is the goal is maximizing traction. I have clownshoes and really wasn't a huge fan of the profile of Nate on them, might be less of an issue with 80mm. The costs are about the same.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I have been pretty happy with the Snowshoe performance on hard pack so far. No real snow yet- I weighed my 120TPI Snowshoe at the LBS the other day and it was 1240 and the 60TPI Fat B Nimble was 1410 (not bad for $50). I have yet to put either on a bike though. The 72TPI snowshoes on the Sturgis are heavier, but not by much- they are probably in the same ballpark as the Fat B Nimble.
Oh I have no doubt I will end up with a B&L (or a pair of Lous, I really like they way they look paired together on the Salsa Blackburrow) at some point, just probably not until next fall or so. That said I have a bunch of non-fat bike stuff for sale right now. Heck I may even sell one of my 9 cars...


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Snowshoes....I love these things. I've been able to find snow to ride on for over a month now, and ride on it in some form daily. The inclines I can ride up, in the snow, on these things continues to amaze me. Once the snow starts to get sugary, then all bets are off, and I'm sure a B&L or L&L would be work better, but not by much. I'll have a B&L for snow someday, but not till these snowshoes are dead. I am starting to see some sidewall wear/threads showing on the 72 tpi snowshoes now that I've been on lower psi's for a month, and think that would be more pronounced on any 120 tpi carcass. So, I'd give them a chance before dropping coin on new rubber just because you've heard they aren't any good. They make me smile...my 2 cents.


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## efuss (Dec 15, 2011)

neons97 said:


> I don't think that is a fair statement at all. With these 190mm frames, the ONLY reason to go 190mm is to fit a large 5" tire (i.e. 4.7-4.8" true to size). If they were to push the crank/chain ring inwards for better chainline, they will compromise chain-to-tire clearance. So when it rubs on a 4.8" tire, they'll have a bunch of customers complaining that there is no point to getting the 190mm frame when they can't run tires wider than on the 170mm frame.
> 
> Fat Bikes are in its infancy right now. The standards are ever changing. It is all about trade-offs and compromises right now. BD went "conservative" and ensured that they could boldly make the claim "fits 4.8" tires and not have to backtrack and have upset customers. This is at the sacrifice of a perfect chainline in the big ring. I would say the chainline in big-ring and large cog is bad. But if you stick to the bottom-half of the cog, the chainline is quite good.
> 
> Really, a 190mm rear should be run with 90-100mm rims, 4.8" tires, and true 120mm spindle cranks. Running 80mm rims, 4.5" tires and a 170mm OLD crank (i.e. me...) defeats the purpose of 190mm frames. This kind of set-up should be left for 170mm. But...I got the Night Train for the thru axle, and the possibility to run larger rims/tires in the future (i.e. future proof).


What about clearance for a triple up front? I am seriously considering buying a Sturgis frame/Bluto, and setting it up with Velocity Duallys and 29x3 Dirt Wizards. Mr. Whirly crank (set up 3x) w/ Moonlander spindle should have plenty of chain clearance in a 190mm frame.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Going for a ride tomorrow with the qtubes tomorrow. Crossing fingers for no flats!!


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> I have been pretty happy with the Snowshoe performance on hard pack so far. No real snow yet- I weighed my 120TPI Snowshoe at the LBS the other day and it was 1240 and the 60TPI Fat B Nimble was 1410 (not bad for $50). I have yet to put either on a bike though. The 72TPI snowshoes on the Sturgis are heavier, but not by much- they are probably in the same ballpark as the Fat B Nimble.
> Oh I have no doubt I will end up with a B&L (or a pair of Lous, I really like they way they look paired together on the Salsa Blackburrow) at some point, just probably not until next fall or so. That said I have a bunch of non-fat bike stuff for sale right now. Heck I may even sell one of my 9 cars...


First world problems lol.....


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

Destr0, you own 9 cars? what are you doing with a BD bike? why not buy a salsa bucksaw, and be done with all the Sturgis tweaking?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

nzxt said:


> Destr0, you own 9 cars? what are you doing with a BD bike? why not buy a salsa bucksaw, and be done with all the Sturgis tweaking?


I actually am that spoiled that the BD Sturgis was purchased just so I have a fat bike to ride until my Bucksaw comes in in January.  I figure a 5" tire hard tail fat bike and a 4" tire full squish fat bike are the only two bikes I really need in my stable.  My son is only 9 and he has a tricked out carbon cockpit Salsa Horsethief, a Pugsley and a Soma Fabrication XC race hardtail. I have a couple other bikes myself (5 or 6... depending on if you ask me or the wife).

I am a bike AND car geek. I have 3 Jeeps, a couple hot rods, a dragster, a trailer pulling diesel truck, a family truckster Suburban and the wife's car. I wrench on my own bikes and my cars. Built not bought...


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

efuss said:


> What about clearance for a triple up front? I am seriously considering buying a Sturgis frame/Bluto, and setting it up with Velocity Duallys and 29x3 Dirt Wizards. Mr. Whirly crank (set up 3x) w/ Moonlander spindle should have plenty of chain clearance in a 190mm frame.


Not sure. I have not given 3x set-ups any thought (on any bike) in over 2 years.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

nzxt said:


> this is EXACTLY what has been bothering me too, about the setup... everyone else is using 100mm Bluto's, and frames like the 9:zero:7, prior to 2014, are designed to usw 80mm Bluto's...for "Suspension correct" handling.
> 
> And when I looked at the Bluto versions at BD, they seemed jacked up into the air in the front. I was wondering "do they look too high in the front end..?"
> 
> ...


I'm totally fine with my slack XL NTB (with bluto too), but seeing these kinds of posts makes me wonder if THIS is why BD put the giant stems on each bike. With those giant stems, we'd all be leaning way forwards, adding more sag? Just a theory....

I put a 90mm stem on mine as thats why feels comfortable to me, but I notice that the front comes up a lot more than my 29er when I am climbing. Its not too big a deal though, just a learning curve for a new bike.

But the 120mm stem it came with WTF? WAYYYYYY too long!


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

fripp said:


> I'm totally fine with my slack XL NTB (with bluto too), but seeing these kinds of posts makes me wonder if THIS is why BD put the giant stems on each bike. With those giant stems, we'd all be leaning way forwards, adding more sag? Just a theory....
> 
> I put a 90mm stem on mine as thats why feels comfortable to me, but I notice that the front comes up a lot more than my 29er when I am climbing. Its not too big a deal though, just a learning curve for a new bike.
> 
> But the 120mm stem it came with WTF? WAYYYYYY too long!


That to me says I went the right way with sizing going a bit small? Keep more weight forward with a bit of a longer stem?

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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

fripp said:


> I'm totally fine with my slack XL NTB (with bluto too), but seeing these kinds of posts makes me wonder if THIS is why BD put the giant stems on each bike. With those giant stems, we'd all be leaning way forwards, adding more sag? Just a theory....
> 
> I put a 90mm stem on mine as thats why feels comfortable to me, but I notice that the front comes up a lot more than my 29er when I am climbing. Its not too big a deal though, just a learning curve for a new bike.
> 
> But the 120mm stem it came with WTF? WAYYYYYY too long!


I forgot that I too went with a 90mm stem before I ever even rode the bike.  120mm is wayyyyy too long!!!


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Well after a month and few hundred miles riding under my belt with the NT, mostly single track of varying difficulties I can say this bike is a lot of fun. I have definitely learned to enjoy the ride and not just the finish line. I'm spending alot more time in the middle to lower gears compared to my 24 pound hardtail which obviously is no surprise. Running 1x on a 30t with this 34 pound beast has pushed up my conditioning quite a bit and that's all good but finding myself in the lower to middle cogs Im definitely not liking my chainline. Running the Samox cranks 1x the chainline is best on the 15 tooth cog and that is just way to outside of optimal for where I seem to be the most of the time. So now Im running a bashguard on the spider with a 64 BCD 30t NW from Absolute Black in the granny position and things look much much better. Drive train is much happier with a chainline that sets more in the middle where Im 80% of the time.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Skywardx thanks for the review. I'm just curious what do you notice when the chainline is off? Does the chain skip or fall off bigger cogs when pedaling backwards? I have a 1 by 10 with a direct mount from RF which I feel should be as close to the bigger cogs as any other setup but I do notice the chain makes a louder noise when pedaling in the larger cogs. I'm wondering if chainline plays a role but not sure. Just interested in your observations. 


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I had an interesting talk with my LBS today. I fell on the inaugural ride and bent my derailleur hanger. I replaced it and it shifted great in the stand. Then when I went riding again I put my bike in my car derailleur down(didn't think about it) and the new one bent. So I took it to the shop. The guy there said he has worked on 4 motobecane fatbikes with bent hangers in the last two weeks. He says it takes very little effort to bend them back. What's up with these weak a$& hangers? He loosened up the clutch mechanism externally as he hypothesized that the clutch mechanism itself may be too forceful for the hanger. Interesting stuff. someone needs to machine a stronger one. 


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

beachbum1 said:


> Skywardx thanks for the review. I'm just curious what do you notice when the chainline is off? Does the chain skip or fall off bigger cogs when pedaling backwards? I have a 1 by 10 with a direct mount from RF which I feel should be as close to the bigger cogs as any other setup but I do notice the chain makes a louder noise when pedaling in the larger cogs. I'm wondering if chainline plays a role but not sure. Just interested in your observations.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The previous setup I was using was performing well, no drops from the larger gears. I really didnt notice any change in noise running threw the gear range just felt compared to my Specialized EVO running SramX0 1x10 the NT chainline was much further outboard. Running on the 36 cog the chain really takes a bend off the chainring. Way to much cross chaining. Its a lot better running a 30 off the granny position which centers the chain pretty much like my speshy. New sprockets and chains take a while to wear in, the sprocket teeth and inner sideplates polish up, and the chain stretches to the correct length so the noise might quiet down.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

*Sturgis/NT derailleur hangers - warranty?*



beachbum1 said:


> I had an interesting talk with my LBS today. I fell on the inaugural ride and bent my derailleur hanger. I replaced it and it shifted great in the stand. Then when I went riding again I put my bike in my car derailleur down(didn't think about it) and the new one bent. So I took it to the shop. The guy there said he has worked on 4 motobecane fatbikes with bent hangers in the last two weeks. He says it takes very little effort to bend them back. What's up with these weak a$& hangers? He loosened up the clutch mechanism externally as he hypothesized that the clutch mechanism itself may be too forceful for the hanger. Interesting stuff. someone needs to machine a stronger one.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just emailed BD about the derailleur hanger issues that a lot of people seem to be having and if they are planning on a redesign of the hanger for the 2nd gen of frames and bikes to ship Jan-Feb 2015. I'll share when I get a response.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Awesome. Thanks for doing that. I might do the same. The more they hear from us the better I would think. 


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## shoeman (Jun 12, 2010)

My mechanic at my LBS said the same thing and made the same adjustment to my rear derailleur. I have bent 2 hangers and don't think they should have bent. They are super soft.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

watermonkey said:


> I just emailed BD about the derailleur hanger issues that a lot of people seem to be having and if they are planning on a redesign of the hanger for the 2nd gen of frames and bikes to ship Jan-Feb 2015. I'll share when I get a response.


Unfortunately this may do little to nothing. Bd doesn't actually do any designing or engineering. They buy frames out of Taiwan/chinese bike catalogues. If you look at the felt double d, it will look a lot like the by/sturgis. These frames/forks look to be generics from kinesis. So for be, this just means a lot of ultra high margin hanger sales perpetually.

When I contacted wheel manufacturing, they mentioned that they were seeing more and more of this hanger this year. Which makes sense given kinesis probably just launched these generic frames.

What we need is a good aftermarket billet alternative.

I also contacted North short billet, but no response after a week. At least wheels manufacturing now only acknowledged me but also confirmed they already have a sample and are considering. This is very promising. So everyone...email wheels manufacturing to tell them there is a market.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Email to Wheel Manufacturing sent


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

neons97 said:


> At least wheels manufacturing now only acknowledged me but also confirmed they already have a sample and are considering. This is very promising. So everyone...email wheels manufacturing to tell them there is a market.


I emailed them and they told me they would have an 11 MONTH lead time on making these. ???


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

shoeman said:


> My mechanic at my LBS said the same thing and made the same adjustment to my rear derailleur. I have bent 2 hangers and don't think they should have bent. They are super soft.


I'm in the same boat. It arrived bent and then bent another 2 weeks in. My brother laid the bike down on some slick surface and I knew right away the hanger was toast. They are super soft...too soft compared to other hangers I've replaced. I had no choice but to order 2 more hangers and I know these will also end up bent beyond repair. I will try to find an alternative or go single speed...not the best option though.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Wow - you guys need to be more careful with your bikes. 20 years of riding I have bent a rear derailleur hanger once. I also killed the RD while at it. Only one of those I have ever killed that didn't get worn out also. I learned as a kid always get on a horse from the left side and never lean your bike on the RD side. Simple.  Seriously though, sounds like there is a problem with these hangers being too soft - knock on wood I don't hurt mine, although I can probably get my machinist at work to make me one in a pinch. 
Put another 30 miles of single track on my Sturgis this weekend. Still loving the bike - and adding 3 bottomless tokens did wonders for my Bluto.


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

if the hanger is made out of crap metal, it not only bends really easily...but it can only be bent ONCE, before it fatigues and shears... and this is obviously the case with the BD Fatty's of late. 

(side note - if you graph out their progress on each new design, you will see they modify almost exactly ONE item on each new release. then make another and another and another release. then they switched to three models of Fatty's)...(you can see they overstocked on some parts and keep pumping out a specific design until they run out, and can upgrade the parts lists...they wont change a frame design, until they run out of surplus of some items that go into the componentry)...chart it out in excel... you will see one major change per design. And as of right now, there are 26 Fat Tire bike designs on their web page... with about 15 models released to make about 18 major changes. instead of 2-3 releases to fix 18 changes. since they "pre-order" the bikes...with months in-between orders and delivery... there is no burn-in or significant testing on each model before release... they just get container shipped over, and the purchasers become the testers. then they email in their issues, and get snail mailed the new parts, or refunded money. BD tallies up these responses, and then about 4-5 models after the release of one model, the next sequential design is thrown up on the web site for pre-order. (but who many are actually really ordered or available..? the web site and the paypal link don't always agree to what's in stock)

I wish they had kept the quality and design up since the ORIGINAL Motobecane model. They were top-notch back in the 70-80s, hand made in France. Gorgeous bikes back in the day.

No one should have to go to their personal machinist to fix these issues. you crack me up. you don't even need a machinist... you just need a 3-axis milling machine, knowledge of the CAD program it uses, a piece of suitable alloy, and mill one of those RD hangers yourself. 

BTW - I talked to a supplier that buys from the factory these bikes are made in... guys, apparently, these Sturgis/NT frames go for $40 in bulk volume unpainted out of Taiwan. *$40*


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Best 40 bucks I ever spent then!


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

nzxt said:


> calm it down Destro... since these BD bikes don't ship with Type 2 RD's, the chain can jam or bind quite easily over technical courses....when that happens, it can pull on the RD, and bend the hanger. I've done this a lot of times with the older style RD...and had to get the hanger aligned at the LBS or the shifting went wayyy off. They have a special tool that bends it back into shape. this assumes it is not crap metal to begin with...


I'm sorry I quit listening when you said you can't ride hard without a type 2 RD... For sure there are plenty of guys out there riding a lot harder than I am, but in 20+ years of riding (including with some friends who have sponsors and race hard core, AND working in a shop wrenching) I have heard of ZERO derailleur hangers bending because "I was riding the Gnar and I have a crappy non-type 2 RD". Seriously? So until a few years ago, before there were type 2 RDs, chains bound and people couldn't ride hard??? I have experienced plenty of chain suck - but never because I was riding too hard - usually because of mud or lack of proper care of my chain. I am sure it can happen but it must be exceedingly rare.

Oh, and BTW - not sure what Motobecane you have but mine came with an X7type two on the RD. 

Your response is so full of BS it is crazy. Have a red chicklet and have a nice day! Obviously in the first part of my post I am joking - most of the guys who have bent hangers have bent them from accidents or in shipping. Bent from riding too hard - not so much! Just a little ribbing to the guys who bent them from leaning them drive side first against a tree and such.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Mines an x9 type 2.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

nzxt said:


> calm it down Destro... since these BD bikes don't ship with Type 2 RD's, the chain can jam or bind quite easily over technical courses....when that happens, it can pull on the RD, and bend the hanger. I've done this a lot of times with the older style RD...and had to get the hanger aligned at the LBS or the shifting went wayyy off. They have a special tool that bends it back into shape. this assumes it is not crap metal to begin with...
> 
> if the hanger is made out of crap metal, it not only bends really easily...but it can only be bent ONCE, before it fatigues and shears... and this is obviously the case with the BD Fatty's of late. I can only assume Destro that you don't really ride hard core off road to experience this. so I'd chill out on the guys that are riding their bikes hard and finding they can't really take them to any significant limits...especially over rock gardens and roots and such...and they found the weak link in the chain, so to speak, and this stuff is coming out and BD needs to re-engineer a bunch of things on their bikes.
> 
> Wow, dick response there. First, read all of the reply, he wasn't knocking anyone. Get your facts straight, they do ship with Type 2 RD's. You said "special tool".


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

nzxt said:


> BTW - I talked to a supplier that buys from the factory these bikes are made in... guys, apparently, these Sturgis/NT frames go for $40 in bulk volume unpainted out of China. *$40*


So can we assume Specialized gets their frames for around $40?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Funny my frame says right on it made in Taiwan. Amazing how they can make the frame in Taiwan, send it to China and then sell it for $40. Crazy, what a wonderful world market we live in. 

Even stranger still that when you add up the MSRP of all the parts that go into most of the BD bikes the cost of the parts is more than the whole bike, so essentially the frames are free. That means they must be complete crap. ;-)


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

nzxt said:


> calm it down Destro... since these BD bikes don't ship with Type 2 RD's, the chain can jam or bind quite easily over technical courses....when that happens, it can pull on the RD, and bend the hanger. I've done this a lot of times with the older style RD...and had to get the hanger aligned at the LBS or the shifting went wayyy off. They have a special tool that bends it back into shape. this assumes it is not crap metal to begin with...
> 
> Blah Blah Blah.....
> I wish they had kept the quality and design up since the ORIGINAL Motobecane model. They were top-notch back in the 70-80s, hand made in France. Gorgeous bikes back in the day.
> ...


This guy is just a tool. He could not figure out how to order a NTB, so he gave up and ordered a Minnesota 3.0. Now all he wants to do is bash BD and their bikes.

nzxt, go somewhere else and post your B.S., unless you can come up with something intelligent to contribute here.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

It's not supposed to be total junk but you guys know that the hangar is supposed to be the weak link between the deraileur and the frame right? But no, they shouldn't be $21 either.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Well I freely admit to being a dumba&& for laying my bike down on the derailleur side. I didn't think it would bend on account of that. I guess we live and we learn. 


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

beachbum1 said:


> Well I freely admit to being a dumba&& for laying my bike down on the derailleur side. I didn't think it would bend on account of that. I guess we live and we learn.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm sure I've done tons over the years, I'd expect it to be able to handle that I guess.


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

Yeah its amazing how these non-type 2 RDs somehow have clutches in them.... and how a 142mm hub with spacers to make it a 150 is somehow a 135. 

For the life of me I can't understand how I rode for 25yrs with clutchless RDs without the chain balling up, derailling, snapping under load and slashing my femoral artery leaving me to bleed out near the side of the trail. For whats its worth, I'm actually taking off the type 2s on both my Sturgis and my Trance. The clutches go to **** so fast and the increased load on the system causes the RD pivots to wear out and the things to shift poorly from the get go. I never had any issues with the Type 1s liked Ive had with the type 2s. Maybe the Shimano clutches are better.....


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Anybody know the rear chain line on these bikes? I don't have something to measure very precisely.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

siv said:


> It's not supposed to be total junk but you guys know that the hangar is supposed to be the weak link between the deraileur and the frame right? But no, they shouldn't be $21 either.


Yes, the hanger is supposed to be "sacrificial". But not this weak.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

*Race Face Ride Cranks on Night Train Frame*

So I got my Race Face Ride (100mm spindle/170mm O.L.D.) crank tonight. And the matching purple 30T RF NW Ring.

1.) Weight: Complete crank/bb/ring/bolts: 810g. (Samox crank/bb/rings weighed 995g on same scale with both rings)
2.) Frame Clearance: Plenty. However, the ring is close to the front derailleur mounting tabs. But no clearance issues. I usually keep the bolts into keep the threads clean. But it will not clear the chain with the chainring bolt still installed. But with the bolt (head) gone, there will not be any chain clearance issues.
3.) Heel Clearance: Will see. I think it's okay. Especially once I switch to flats and my feet move all over the place
4.) Chainline: I mounted the ring in the "middle" ring position. The 30T NW also has -2mm Chainline so the chain clears the spider. In the 4th cog from the big ring, the chainline is 100% perfect. Without the 2MM offset of the 30T, it would be perfect in the 5th cog and across the entire cassette. So this set-up is pretty close to a perfect chainline as it gets. Since I will be spending 70% of my time in the upper half of the cog, this is the perfect chainline for me. I will also add a OneUp 42T cog in the back, so the straighter chainline to this cog should result in less wear to this aluminum cog.
5.) Tire Clearance: For the stock Snowshoe 4.5", there is plenty of clearance. It may fit the Specialized 4.6 GC, but I can see problems with any of the true 4.8" tires (Lou, Snowshoe XL, etc.). In this case, I believe I would have to run the 30T ring in the outboard (big ring) position, flipped. Which adds 8mm to the chainline. It is not ideal, but would be far better than the stock SAMOX outer ring position. But not as good as the stock SAMOX inner ring position.

My new Derailler Hanger should arrive tomorrow, along with my OneUp cog, so I should have it up and running again tomorrow night. But I'm away on business for 4 days, so I won't get to take it to the trail till Sunday 

Now the pics...


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I was looking at the 9Zero7 site tonight. It looks like their all-new 2015 aluminum frame with 197mmTA uses the exact same hanger/nut as our Sturgis/Night Train. It's very likely that 9Zero7 Aluminum frames are also made by Kinesis on the same line as our Night Train frames and therefore, uses the same hanger/nut.

If this is the case, the likelihood for upgraded hangers should be good in the future.

So far, the bikes that look like it uses the same hanger/nut:


Motobecane Sturgis/Night Train
Felt DoubleD
9Zero7 2015 Aluminum


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

neons97 said:


> So I got my Race Face Ride (100mm spindle/170mm O.L.D.) crank tonight. And the matching purple 30T RF NW Ring.
> 
> 1.) Weight: Complete crank/bb/ring/bolts: 810g. (Samox crank/bb/rings weighed 995g on same scale with both rings)
> 2.) Frame Clearance: Plenty. However, the ring is close to the front derailleur mounting tabs. But no clearance issues. I usually keep the bolts into keep the threads clean. But it will not clear the chain with the chainring bolt still installed. But with the bolt (head) gone, there will not be any chain clearance issues.
> ...


Thank you so much for reporting! My bike will be all dirt, so if anything I'll end up with narrower tires, so it should work great.
Thanks!

Please update after a ride or two-definitely interested in your experience with heel clearance


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Which did you get, the Ride for 170 or 190 rear end? ;-)

I have a 170 sitting in the parts bin, but if it will fit the Motobecane that may be the motivation I need to buy a Turbine crank for my Bucksaw build.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

tfinator said:


> Thank you so much for reporting! My bike will be all dirt, so if anything I'll end up with narrower tires, so it should work great.
> Thanks!
> 
> Please update after a ride or two-definitely interested in your experience with heel clearance


Here you go. Heel clearance is close, but no rubbing on my XT trail pedals and 43.5 size Bontrager RXL shoes. With flex, I may get a little rubbing, but I don't think it'll be more than a bit of scuffing of shoe/chain stay at worst. Well worth this cost to save nearly 30mm in q-factor. My knees will thank me no doubt.

For clearance, at the widest part of chainstay, there is 3/8". At the pedal spindle, there is 9/16".


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Destr0 said:


> Which did you get, the Ride for 170 or 190 rear end? ;-)
> 
> I have a 170 sitting in the parts bin, but if it will fit the Motobecane that may be the motivation I need to buy a Turbine crank for my Bucksaw build.


It's in the 1st line of my post.. 

100m spindle for 170 O.L.D.

I don't think RF makes the Ride for 190mm rear ends (120mm spindle).

This may or may not work with the Bucksaw depending on the chainstay clearance. Not sure if the bucksaw linkages are going to add any width around the BB area which may cause clearance issues.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

neons97 said:


> It's in the 1st line of my post..
> 
> 100m spindle for 170 O.L.D.
> 
> ...


 I see now where it does say that. I think I was distracted by the pictures. Yeah, that must be it. 

Yeah I may have to test fit them on my buddies BS. Mine doesn't get here until late December/January. Almost hope they don't fit so I have an excuse to buy the Turbine (or Next SL). 
Do you think these would work 2x? I am not planning on ditching the FD to keep the Sturgis more capable in the snow (it is the winter bike, BS will be 3 season bike).


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Destr0 said:


> Yeah I may have to test fit them on my buddies BS. Mine doesn't get here until late December/January. Almost hope they don't fit so I have an excuse to buy the Turbine (or Next SL).
> Do you think these would work 2x? I am not planning on ditching the FD to keep the Sturgis more capable in the snow (it is the winter bike, BS will be 3 season bike).


It definitely WILL NOT work as 2x. Look at my pics and you'll see that there will be no way to mount a FD with this set-up. You can run a dingle-speed (i.e. two narrow wide rings up front without a derailleur or shifter).

I see no reason to get the Turbine's (non-cinch) over the Ride. Only 30G lighter and twice the price. I didn't go Turbine Cinch as I wanted the narrowest q-factor. The Turbine Cinch it adds 10mm to q-factor (maybe what you need for your BS if the regular ride/next q-factor of 202mm for 170mm rear is too narrow for your frame).

If the Ride 170 won't fit, then the Next SL 170 won't fit either. These have the same q-factor. But if it's close but just needs a little more, then the Turbine Cinch 170 may fit as it has +10mm q-factor vs. the Ride/Next SL's.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Well then the Ride will fit - there are several builds featuring the Next SL (as well as the Turbine) - I am the only one I know of so far fitting the Ride cranks on the BS. I will probably upgrade to Next SL in a year or so - building this bike as well as my son's Horsethief and buying him a Pugsley and me the Sturgis have me a little thin in the wallet. :-0 What spacers are you running in the pics above? Can you move more to the DS to get more clearance for a fatter tire? I know this will hurt the chain line a bit, just wondering if it is possible.  I am going to run the Snowshoes this winter but am going to put some 4.8 tires on there for next winter for sure.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Destr0 said:


> Well then the Ride will fit - there are several builds featuring the Next SL (as well as the Turbine) - I am the only one I know of so far fitting the Ride cranks on the BS. I will probably upgrade to Next SL in a year or so - building this bike as well as my son's Horsethief and buying him a Pugsley and me the Sturgis have me a little thin in the wallet. :-0 What spacers are you running in the pics above? Can you move more to the DS to get more clearance for a fatter tire? I know this will hurt the chain line a bit, just wondering if it is possible.  I am going to run the Snowshoes this winter but am going to put some 4.8 tires on there for next winter for sure.


1 x 2.5mm spacer on NDS
2 x 2.5mm spacers on DS

This is the same as the stock SAMOX set-up from factory.

To get more chainline, I would put my 30T ring in the outboard position (and flipped) to add 8mm to chainline for wider tires. In doing so, I could move one of the BB cup spacers to the NDS to only add 5.5mm. This may actually be the best alternative as thre's still enough chainstay clearance to remove 2.5mm's. But on visual inspection, I'm very happy with the clearance afforded by this set-up the way it is (without riding it yet).


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

On the race face website they only list the ride as 190 old.
Or maybe I'm reading it wrong. 
http://www.raceface.com/components/cranks/fat-bike/fat-bike/


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Mine is definitely for 170 OLD. Right on the box and in the part number.

It's possible they make a 190 OLD Ride. But I have yet to find a single online retailer list them, let alone stock them.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

10 month lead time on putting these derailleur hangers into production? Even I might get to it before then.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Anyone look at those fatty slims from bikes direct? I'm looking to get a pair but just want the rear. Gonna ask them if they would sell separate. Otherwise I know this is a long shot but anyone just interested in front?


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Not to switch gears but has anyone gone tubeless yet with the stock rims? If so what tires and method did you use? Interested in some Bud and Lou'd but don't really wanna add another 2 pounds back on the bike.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

siv said:


> Not to switch gears but has anyone gone tubeless yet with the stock rims? If so what tires and method did you use? Interested in some Bud and Lou'd but don't really wanna add another 2 pounds back on the bike.


I have. It's hard, and the tires don't sit right so they have some hop and wobble. 
These are the worst rims possible for going tubeless. I didn't mind cause I'm getting done carbon ones that should be easy, so I did it for fun.
If you still want to know I'll write it up.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

neons97 said:


> Mine is definitely for 170 OLD. Right on the box and in the part number.
> 
> It's possible they make a 190 OLD Ride. But I have yet to find a single online retailer list them, let alone stock them.


What does the box and PN say? Sorry to such a PITA. It's hard looking for exactly what I need. The common PN I see floating around is: CK12RXC100A175BLK
Thanks again for your help.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

tfinator said:


> What does the box and PN say? Sorry to such a PITA. It's hard looking for exactly what I need. The common PN I see floating around is: CK12RXC100A175BLK
> Thanks again for your help.


In case it matters to anyone, I am running the turbine 190 with a RF NW 30T and a bud/lou combo, and I do not think it would work with the 170 version. I'm using the two spacers on the spindle (10mm), and i'm not THAT far away from rubbing when I'm on the 36 cog in the back.

For people getting the 170 old to work, what tires are they?


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

*does this look bent?*

Very curious how bent a derailleur hanger has to be to be considered 'bent'?

Here is a pic of mine from the back.

To me its on a slight angle but maybe that's how it is supposed to be? It seems to shift fine, although very occasionally i have had to adjust it from kind of skipping in the small wheels.

I can't tell if the hanger is supposed to be like it is, or is it tilted inwards?


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

fripp said:


> In case it matters to anyone, I am running the turbine 190 with a RF NW 30T and a bud/lou combo, and I do not think it would work with the 170 version. I'm using the two spacers on the spindle (10mm), and i'm not THAT far away from rubbing when I'm on the 36 cog in the back.
> 
> For people getting the 170 old to work, what tires are they?


I'm running the 170 O.L.D. Ride crank with the Snowshoe 4.5. 30T RF NW in the normal middle-ring position. Chainline is near perfect (straight line to 4th cog from largest cog), and tire clearance is perfect. this set-up will not work with much larger tires though (i.e. bud-lou). The chainline in this set-up is calculated at 64.5mm according to the RF website/chart.

However, by taking my ring and mounting it flipped in the outboard (large ring) position, my chainline will be +8mm or 72.5MM. I would have to think this would work well with Bud/Lou's. The 190 O.L.D. crank with a 30T NW ring mounted in the normal middle-ring position has a chainline of 75.5mm, so being -3mm should be enough clearance for Bud/Lou with a 170 O.L.D. crank. And have better chainline than on an 190 O.L.D. crank. Unless that is you have less than 3mm clearance with your 190 O.L.D. crank and the Bud/Lou tire.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

You can usually adjust around minorly bent hangers. I can't tell from those pictures just how bent it might be (if at all, it certainly isn't REALLY bent). If you go through a standard derailleur adjustment and it still skips on some gears it probably needs to be straightened. 

Derailleur adjustment:
- move the cable adjuster all the way in
- Put shifters in highest/hardest gear (i.e. no tension on the cable)
- loosen cable pinch on derailleur and tighten the cable by pulling on it and tightening the cable pinch
- turn the cable adjuster until the chain just starts to go up to the next gear, back off a half turn
- set derailleur stop so derailleur can't go outside of this point (if the stop is incorrectly set to begin with you can do this step before any of the above)
- run through the gears to make sure you get them all without skipping
- you may have to turn the cable adjuster a click or two in either direction to make it perfect, but if you are turning more than a half turn, something is not right
- shift into the lowest/easiest gear (big cog), set derailleur stop so it can't shift the chain into the spokes. 

If that doesn't make sense then it's probably best to have someone show you or bring it to a bike shop, they can check your hanger straightness with a tool.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

fripp said:


> Very curious how bent a derailleur hanger has to be to be considered 'bent'?
> 
> Here is a pic of mine from the back.
> 
> ...


It's hard to tell from your pictures, but the derailleur/cage should be perfectly vertical/aligned with the drivetrain plane. Any tilt/bend can and will cause shifting issues.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

neons97 said:


> It's hard to tell from your pictures, but the derailleur/cage should be perfectly vertical/aligned with the drivetrain plane. Any tilt/bend can and will cause shifting issues.


I appreciate the advice guys!

Actually I think I found the problem. There was some movement in the hanger and I took off the wheel and found the little tiny screw that keeps the hanger on. It was somewhat loose, so I tightened it, and the shimmy back and forth stopped. I didn't realize this wasn't normal! Anyway, after that, it seems the gears seem to change flawlessly and it really didn't look bent once the tire was removed.

I also wrote BD before this, sending them my pic and within an hour of writing, I got a USPS notification that a new d hanger was shipped to me. Props to BD for taking care of me, and if I still have this issue, at least I have another one to try.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Jisch said:


> You can usually adjust around minorly bent hangers. I can't tell from those pictures just how bent it might be (if at all, it certainly isn't REALLY bent). If you go through a standard derailleur adjustment and it still skips on some gears it probably needs to be straightened.
> 
> Derailleur adjustment:
> - move the cable adjuster all the way in
> ...


Jisch - you da man - I'm keeping these instructions as they are very well written - thanks so much!


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

So I guess step one is make sure your hanger is tight.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Jisch said:


> So I guess step one is make sure your hanger is tight.


These bikes are awesome if you are someone who likes to tinker. They really need that to make them great overall and these are all things the LBS would have done (most likely). Good thing is, I am now aware and the next bike, my kids bike, my wife's bike etc, its one more thing I will be able to work with. And there is room for this right now since my trails are all soaked and there is no snow yet!


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

+1! Thanks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

tfinator said:


> What does the box and PN say? Sorry to such a PITA. It's hard looking for exactly what I need. The common PN I see floating around is: CK12RXC100A175BLK
> Thanks again for your help.


My part number on the box is: CK12RXC100A175BLK...so exactly what you posted. No fit issues. If you have very large feet, maybe you will get heel rub on the chainstays. But my 43.5 size shoes don't hit the chainstays.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

fripp said:


> These bikes are awesome if you are someone who likes to tinker. They really need that to make them great overall and these are all things the LBS would have done (most likely). Good thing is, I am now aware and the next bike, my kids bike, my wife's bike etc, its one more thing I will be able to work with. And there is room for this right now since my trails are all soaked and there is no snow yet!


I've built hundreds of bikes at a bike shop out of a box (not department store bikes). I don't once recall checking the hanger to make sure it's tight. Though, I've also never remembered any needing it.

Seeing how this hanger also serves as the wheel nut, I cannot see the little screw that keeps the hanger in do anything other than to locate the hanger during assembly so that the axle doesn't push it out. This nut/hanger relies solely on the axle's tension to keep everything tight.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Anyone notice on the BD page that both the Sturgis/Night Train pre-orders are now for late May! That's got to be a new record...a 6+ month pre-pay pre-order!


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

...probably was done to fix production run issues...

the BD ship date is now two months after the release of the Mongoose Argus in March2015. one of their direct sales competitors for next year. 135/190, FSA comet 38/24 w11-34t, Shimano Deore, 100mm rims, Vee Mission or Bulldozer. MSRP $900-1k.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

neons97 said:


> My part number on the box is: CK12RXC100A175BLK...so exactly what you posted. No fit issues. If you have very large feet, maybe you will get heel rub on the chainstays. But my 43.5 size shoes don't hit the chainstays.


Beautiful, thanks neons- very much!


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

neons97 said:


> I've built hundreds of bikes at a bike shop out of a box (not department store bikes). I don't once recall checking the hanger to make sure it's tight. Though, I've also never remembered any needing it.
> 
> Seeing how this hanger also serves as the wheel nut, I cannot see the little screw that keeps the hanger in do anything other than to locate the hanger during assembly so that the axle doesn't push it out. This nut/hanger relies solely on the axle's tension to keep everything tight.


With the through axle in the back is there a tightness that i t is supposed to be at so things run properly? At first I had turned it and then the final close of the lever was very tight and I swear the wheel made a squeak because if it. Then I looosened it a hair and the squeak stopped. Could have been brakes or anything but was definitely related to how tight it all is squeezed together. With the hanger basically part of the mechanism for it to be stable the TA needs to be very tight I would think. In my case tightening that tiny screw helped for sure but was obviously not the only thing in play.


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## H.Seaward (Dec 18, 2010)

Not gonna read this whole thread. What are the low weights people are getting? Anyone switched to a carbone fork? which one?


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

H.Seaward said:


> Not gonna read this whole thread. What are the low weights people are getting? Anyone switched to a carbone fork? which one?


My XL NTB is at 35 pounds on the nose. Its a big ass frame!

Light seat, super light q-tubes, a few other changes - bud and lou.

I really think 33-35 would be the best you can get an XL.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

fripp said:


> With the through axle in the back is there a tightness that i t is supposed to be at so things run properly? At first I had turned it and then the final close of the lever was very tight and I swear the wheel made a squeak because if it. Then I looosened it a hair and the squeak stopped. Could have been brakes or anything but was definitely related to how tight it all is squeezed together. With the hanger basically part of the mechanism for it to be stable the TA needs to be very tight I would think. In my case tightening that tiny screw helped for sure but was obviously not the only thing in play.


The whole design of the hanger/nut is just wrong in my opinion. I would blame this on BD being cheap. But seeing as the felt and 2015 907 look onuse the same (or at least similar) dropout design, I can't blame BD for this. As they just buy out of a catalogue anyways.

My concern with going too tight is fear of stripping the nut. Seeing how soft the material is, there will need to be a fine balance between:
Wheel tightness
Brake rotor alignment
Hanger tightness
Hanger alignment
Wheel bearing binding
Don't strip wheel nut
Axle lever final position alignment to prevent them from snagging as many branches/obstacles

This design sucks. But to be honest, it is the only bad part of the bike I can find right now. And unlike some of the Chinese carbon frame axles, the nut isn't "loose" so you won't risk losing the nut and walking out of you have to do trail side repair on the rear axle.


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## woodsskier (Nov 28, 2012)

Can someone with X9 cranks and a direct mount non offset ring comment on what BB and spindle spacers you used? I ended up using 2 2.5mm BB spacers on each side. I have spindle washers on order to fill in the small gap between the ring and BB. I don't notice any play in the cranks. The non drive side crank arm seems about 1-2mm farther out compared to the drive side in relation to the chain stay. I haven't done a ride on it yet, but the chain line looks really good, about smack in the middle with the stock cassette.


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

H.Seaward said:


> Not gonna read this whole thread. What are the low weights people are getting? Anyone switched to a carbone fork? which one?


My M with Bluto is down to the very low 34s- and thats with a dropper post and pedals. Lighter bars, saddle, q-tubes, ditched the rim strips for tape, went to a 1x10 with a 42t OneUp cog, Avid Elixir 1s on really light magura rotors, and filled the frame with helium (joke).

I'm pretty happy with it for having the Bluto and the dropper at that weight. To lose much else I think carbon rims/tubeless would obviously be the next big jump...


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## mtbfreedom (Nov 19, 2014)

My nighttrain small is 31 lbs with no pedals. Full xtr, q tubes, carbon bar ritchey stem, thomson seatpost ritchey seat and race face turbine cranks.


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

lower the weight further with a pair of NEXTIE rims.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

I'm waiting for a pic of nextie rims on a night train!! I'm just worried about the hub choices


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

The frame weight for a 17.5" is 5.03 pounds or exactly 2300 grams on my scale with the headset cups still pressed in and both shifter cables still in the frame. So the frame is good...

The fork however, was 3.1 pounds or 1410g. There is at least a pound and half to lose there with a decent aluminum fork or even more with a carbon.

My personal Sturgis rigid fork bike weight is 32.6 without pedals. With lighter 2.5" tubes, duct tape rim strips, Thomson seatpost, 6" rotor Avid DB3 brakes, Ritchey carbon bar, 50mm Truvativ stem, and San Marco Aspide Ti saddle. Other than that it is stock.


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

*Vee Bulldozers*

I just threw on a set of Bulldozers so I don't completely trash the Snowshoes waiting for it to snow. Here's a comparison shot. You can't really tell from the pic, but the Bulldozers (left) are noticeably wider, a true 4.7 and the tread is much more aggressive. I can't wait to give them a try tomorrow...SC


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

let us know how you like the bulldozers in different terrain. I ordered a pair hoping they will do well.


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

if all of your weights on these parts is accurate by using accurate digital scales, I can set up a spreadsheet and share with everyone showing every part in each location of the bike. if you can measure in grams, I can then chart that and covert to lbs as well.

also chart what fits in the rear and what cannot....with specific rim widths compared for each tire, if we can get that far.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

nzxt said:


> lower the weight further with a pair of NEXTIE rims.


What frame is that?


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

fripp said:


> What frame is that?


Sorry was confused. NTB frame right? How come you removed the decals?


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

fripp said:


> What frame is that?


Chinese carbon? It's not a night train/sturgis or motobecane for that matter.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

bwilson said:


> Chinese carbon? It's not a night train/sturgis or motobecane for that matter.


Isn't it just a NTB or Sturgis with the decals removed?


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

No, looks like it might be an iPlay Carbon.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

fripp said:


> Isn't it just a NTB or Sturgis with the decals removed?


No. Pretty sure it's a Chinese carbon frame (similar lines to the Fatback Corvus).

Definitely not a NTB/Sturgis.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

OnThaCouch said:


> No. Pretty sure it's a Chinese carbon frame (similar lines to the Fatback Corvus).
> 
> Definitely not a NTB/Sturgis.


Yeah. Chinese carbon frame. Someone's showing off...


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

tfinator said:


> Yeah. Chinese carbon frame. Someone's showing off...


Yep....can't blame them though. That is a beeeuuuuttiii-FULL bike :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

View attachment Strugis diet plan.pdf


Here is my weight sheet.

Did you happen to weight those Bulldozers before you installed them?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

silvbullit said:


> The frame weight for a 17.5" is 5.03 pounds or exactly 2300 grams on my scale with the headset cups still pressed in and both shifter cables still in the frame. So the frame is good...


How much do you think the headset cups and shifter cables weigh?

I have a Framed Alaskan Carbon frame on order and it is a claimed 1460g (17") which would be 1.85lbs dropped in the frame alone.

I was thinking of cancelling my order. I am enjoying the NTB and couldn't see much actual benefit of the carbon except the "bling" of carbon and maybe some added stiffness (the NTB is plenty stiff to me) but now I am not so sure.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

The housing and cups are probably about 100-130g. I am looking at carbon forks and based on an average claimed weight of 700g, I will save almost 2 pounds on the fork alone. I am pleased with the Sturgis frame but I guess an additional weight loss of 1.85 pounds is nothing to scoff at either. 

I really like the geometry of the frame though after spending some time on it. I ride it with a 50mm stem as I am 5'8" riding the 17.5 and it feels perfect. With the steep head angle, I was really anticipating the bike to shatter my confidence for downhills but I was pleasantly surprised. There is a fairly steep half-mile DH section with jumps, berms, rock beds, roots and a 4-ft. drop to a flat bermed corner that I rip all the time with a 180mm travel mini-DH bike with a dropper. In about 4 inches of gross, crusty snow I was amazingly comfortable hitting everything on the rigid Sturgis with the seat still all the way up. I will confirm the general sentiment that riding things on a fatbike is just plain fun in some goofy, intangible way. I was sliding and drifting often but controlably. I am certain I was grinning the whole time. My Strava time was still in the top 10% which just so happened to be one second faster than my buddies fastest time in primo hero-dirt summer conditions. Rag on Strava if you wish but that was like frosting on top of an already great ride. Pun intended. 

I like my Sturgis.


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## silvbullit (Nov 26, 2010)

I also ran 11psi rear and 10psi front. I lack any sense of grace when riding, if a rock bed doesn't look like it will break my ankles, I keep pedaling. This is probably a result of riding full suspension (and alot of it) almost exclusively for 18 of my 20 years seriously riding mountain bikes. As a result I tend to flat alot, even running tubeless, 35mm wide rims, and 35psi on a full sus I still pinch-flat tires by pinching and tearing the casing of the tire. Once even in the middle of a knob on a Minion DH-F.

So I figured that single-digit tire pressures were not for me on the fatty. I am sure more graceful riders can get away with less pressure.

I found the bounciness very controllable and predictable. I even found it fun. I was popping off rocks and roots to clear entire gardens of obstacles. Suspension really squanders that "pop" and I started to really enjoy bounding down the trail like a rabbit on Starbucks at the expense of getting a little more beat up overall. That also could have been the result of hoofing up 16% grades on crust that wouldn't hold.


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

fripp said:


> What frame is that?


that is an ICAN SN03 Carbon Fatty. Frame is about $500, fork another $120.shipping another $100, plus duty taxes.

link : SN03 fat bike 100mm BB sheels 190mm rear spacing - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.

the idea was to show the nextie carbon rims, not so much the kick-butt carbon frame/fork. you will see several bike "manufacturers" using this frame in their 2015 line-up.


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

silvbullit said:


> View attachment 945964
> 
> 
> Here is my weight sheet.
> ...


Silvbullit - WTG. good job on the spreadsheet for the 17.5".


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

nzxt said:


> that is an ICAN SN03 Carbon Fatty. Frame is about $500, fork another $120.shipping another $100, plus duty taxes.
> 
> link : SN03 fat bike 100mm BB sheels 190mm rear spacing - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.
> 
> the idea was to show the nextie carbon rims, not so much the kick-butt carbon frame/fork. you will see several bike "manufacturers" using this frame in their 2015 line-up.


Oh come now. You wanted to show of your bike.
I don't think anyone was doubting the fact that carbon is lighter, and I bet there's not a soul on this thread who hasn't also read the nextie thread.


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

tfinator said:


> Oh come now. You wanted to show of your bike.
> I don't think anyone was doubting the fact that carbon is lighter, and I bet there's not a soul on this thread who hasn't also read the nextie thread.


> no, that is not my bike. that picture came from the Nextie rim web site. I agree, it's a beautiful bike.

ICAN also makes carbon fatty rims. link : Fat wheelsets 90mm width with sram xx1 - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

nzxt said:


> > no, that is not my bike. that picture came from the Nextie rim web site. I agree, it's a beautiful bike.
> 
> ICAN also makes carbon fatty rims. link : Fat wheelsets 90mm width with sram xx1 - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


Okay. Well dude we can all search alibaba and eBay for wheels, I think we get that carbon is lighter than aluminum.


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

silvbullit said:


> Did you happen to weight those Bulldozers before you installed them?


Nope, but they're heavy as hell. I'm a Clydesdale, so I don't care about weight other than my own...SC


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

tfinator said:


> Okay. Well dude we can all search alibaba and eBay for wheels, I think we get that carbon is lighter than aluminum.


>tfinator, don't be a complete ass. someone asked what lighter rims could be bought, and I forwarded a few. I wasn't searching ebay or alibaba. I linked to two companies I know that have them in production now. Why is it everything I post, you have to have such a crappy attitude about and put me down? actually, a large majority of your posts are backhanded compliments towards someone else, or just downright putting them down.

knowledge is power. even when it's given away for free. so deal with it !! ; )


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

nzxt said:


> >tfinator, don't be a complete ass. someone asked what lighter rims could be bought, and I forwarded a few. I wasn't searching ebay or alibaba. I linked to two companies I know that have them in production now. Why is it everything I post, you have to have such a crappy attitude about and put me down? actually, a large majority of your posts are backhanded compliments towards someone else, or just downright putting them down.
> 
> knowledge is power. even when it's given away for free. so deal with it !! ; )


Nobody asked anything about carbon rims. 
One guy said he could 'obviously' get some to lower the weight. 
Nobody is learning anything from your posts, because they offer information akin to 2+2=4.
I apologize- im very thankful to all the incredibly helpful people on forums, but have no patience for people who post inane pictures and things that don't actually answer questions.
Carry on, I guess.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

OnThaCouch said:


> How much do you think the headset cups and shifter cables weigh?
> 
> I have a Framed Alaskan Carbon frame on order and it is a claimed 1460g (17") which would be 1.85lbs dropped in the frame alone.
> 
> I was thinking of cancelling my order. I am enjoying the NTB and couldn't see much actual benefit of the carbon except the "bling" of carbon and maybe some added stiffness (the NTB is plenty stiff to me) but now I am not so sure.


Nah...keep the Sturgis and upgrade the wheels to some Carbon Rims. Then you won't need those MulFuts and can give them to me .

Aren't you limited to 1x10 on the Alaskan? I know there's steeps in your area.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> Well, this thread has come completely unraveled. I can appreciate that everyone's patience is at the limit after waiting for ~3 months for a bike, but can we minimize the UPS shipping progress updates and get back to pictures, reviews, upgrades, build issues, etc.?
> I just ordered mine - due in Feb. - and I'd much rather see everyone else's build and ride pix than anything else.
> 
> ...
> -F


I am _almost_ ready to retract that ^^^ post. :lol:
This is taking forever! :cryin: Month and a half to go (What was I thinking?).

Fortunately, unfortunately :crazy: the trails have been unrideable as we are in the midst of the freeze/thaw. There are people checking trail conditions daily - both in anticipation of a solid freeze, and to deter those who might not respect the closures. Where's my time machine...

btw - thanks for the pix and the stoke and the useful info on q-factors, tubeless, bottomless tokens, Bud, Lou, Snowshoes, Q-tubes, frame bags, fenders, and fat fun in general!

-F


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

watermonkey said:


> Nah...keep the Sturgis and upgrade the wheels to some Carbon Rims. Then you won't need those MulFuts and can give them to me .
> 
> Aren't you limited to 1x10 on the Alaskan? I know there's steeps in your area.


Carbon rims....Hmmm...now THERE'S an idea :thumbsup:. Maybe as the next upgrade...I don't think I can get a complete set of hoops for the same price as the carbon frame.

I checked the Framed and House sites and they have models running 2x10.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

tfinator said:


> Nobody asked anything about carbon rims.
> One guy said he could 'obviously' get some to lower the weight.
> Nobody is learning anything from your posts, because they offer information akin to 2+2=4.
> I apologize- im very thankful to all the incredibly helpful people on forums, but have no patience for people who post inane pictures and things that don't actually answer questions.
> Carry on, I guess.


I'll comment that the picture of the nextie rims and the carbon frame were helpful to me. I knew nothing about those rims as I'm pretty new to the fat scene and its good to know a carbon frame like that is out there.

This forum is real enjoyable to read most of the time but people policing it and deciding what's a valuable comment or not is annoying. If its not valuable to you fine then carry on. No need to take someone else down in the process. Speaking for everyone else is also annoying since you are in no position to speak for me to know if I find value in someone else's information.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Nextie rims are next on my wish list along with a carbon fork but I prices it out and with using these hubs it'll cost around $900 to upgrade. Good wright savings. 

Off topic bd customer service is the best. Shout out to Larry! If you are reading this you are the man


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Tonggi said:


> Nextie rims are next on my wish list along with a carbon fork but I prices it out and with using these hubs it'll cost around $900 to upgrade. Good wright savings.
> 
> Off topic bd customer service is the best. Shout out to Larry! If you are reading this you are the man


Maybe not...

http://mmba.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=126861


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

fripp said:


> I'll comment that the picture of the nextie rims and the carbon frame were helpful to me. I knew nothing about those rims as I'm pretty new to the fat scene and its good to know a carbon frame like that is out there.
> 
> This forum is real enjoyable to read most of the time but people policing it and deciding what's a valuable comment or not is annoying. If its not valuable to you fine then carry on. No need to take someone else down in the process. Speaking for everyone else is also annoying since you are in no position to speak for me to know if I find value in someone else's information.


>Thanks FRIPP for the support. When it comes down to it, all these fat tire bikes are only proprietary to the frame, and that is defining the thread the discussion goes into. the rest of the bike is (mostly) all aftermarket parts...with only the wheel-set possibly modified to fit a specific frame due to hub spacing, or dishing of the rim/spokes etc. Once everyone buys a FAT bike from somewhere, it's pretty much an experimentation where all the upgrades lead us. some are embracing new ideas, and some don't care, and others just try to make it all personal. The ones that make it personal, like you said, and I agree, they are the ones that ruin the entire forum on their own.

The people that share knowledge and ideas are the ones that make this thread (and any other) the best it can be. And I thank them for it, too. (almost) all of you ; )


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

Negotiator50 said:


> Maybe not...
> 
> MMBA • View topic - Carbon rims group buy


>I'll go in on a set of rims too. Plus I agree, Larry at BD is doing an excellent job in customer service...even if it's only via email and not through the phone. Larry GREAT WORK !! (you must be busy as hell with all these frames to deal with - and two warehouses, one in Jacksonville FLA and another outside of Dallas TX)


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

Here is a thought... and try not to spam me for it.... what if several of you got together (if you liked the idea) and told BD about the SNO1-2-3 frames at ICAN and also the NEXTIE rims, and asked for them to build a new carbon fatty rigid fork version. With the "better" sram or shimano parts ...and the brakes people seem to find work best, and TELL THEM "Hey BD, this is the bike we want you to build, and here is my pre-order if you can make it happen and come in under $XXXX dollars.

give them guidance and challenge to stay head of the 3 or 4 big hitters that are going to start undercutting all their prices starting in March.

If you are loyal to BD, give them the feedback they hope they see in these forums, and even better, provide them with the build list for their next carbon fatty....

I bet no-one has offered to give them requests like that before, on a new and emerging market. people on this thread obviously know what is on its way here... so if pre-ordering.... why not pre-order a truly kick ass design.

THEN FINALLY, the bike magazines will pick them up and want to review BD bikes.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

I was told via email that the higher ups don't believe in carbon for mtn bikes but a titanium version is being planned early 2016. Also, my Large Night Train is 33 lbs. Q tube non-super lights, duct tape rim strips, Tompson seatpost, Ergon grips, Chinese carbon bars and stem, Shimano 520 pedals.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

nzxt said:


> Here is a thought... and try not to spam me for it.... what if several of you got together (if you liked the idea) and told BD about the SNO1-2-3 frames at ICAN and also the NEXTIE rims, and asked for them to build a new carbon fatty rigid fork version. With the "better" sram or shimano parts ...and the brakes people seem to find work best, and TELL THEM "Hey BD, this is the bike we want you to build, and here is my pre-order if you can make it happen and come in under $XXXX dollars.
> 
> give them guidance and challenge to stay head of the 3 or 4 big hitters that are going to start undercutting all their prices starting in March.
> 
> ...


Stop being so self righteous.

Related though, I asked them for a CF fat bike about four months ago. No bones.
They look at these forums, so they're well aware of our wants.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*No BD carbon off-road frames of any type...*

...whether its fat, MTB or cyclocross. I suspect that the reasons are pretty straightforward. While carbon fiber is obviously a perfectly suitable material for all types of frames, it's more prone to damage from impacts and abrasion than Al or Ti, and this can be cumulative. They're also more prone to damage from improper assembly and maintenance, which is important when you sell direct to the public and have no idea of the competence of the person assembling the bike (yes, there are bad shop mechanics, but they are liable for assembly errors, not the manufacturer). Carbon fiber parts tend to fail catastrophically, which can result in serious injuries. All of these factors create a real concern for a business operating in a litigious society such as ours in the US.

Although I have no inside line on the thinking at BD or Motobecane, I suspect that they're trying to avoid the inevitable increase in warranty _claims _and potential liability issue that will likely occur with carbon off-road frames. Even if they didn't have to _replace _more frames, it still costs money to process claims and failures can create image problems for the company. I don't necessarily agree with this, but it's understandable.

I own carbon road and 'cross bikes, and I will be putting a carbon fork on the Night Train frame that I have on order when it arrives (and selling the Bluto). I'm very comfortable with carbon fiber bikes, but when I decided last year that I wanted 29er hardtail, I selected a Ti Motobecane over a comparable carbon bike (Sette) specifically for the increased durability, based on the trails I ride and knowing that I'm going to crash occasionally. I suspect BD and I are on the same wavelength in that regard.

Also, keep in mind that BD is limited by what it's suppliers produce. While it may seem simple to us, spec'ing a bike line and having it custom-built is complicated and costly. If their suppliers don't offer carbon fat bikes, they're not likely to source them on their own. There may also be branding issues that we don't know about.

Finally, the fact that there are a few people on an enthusiast's website asking for carbon fat bikes doesn't mean that there is a large enough market for them for BD to take the risk of diving in, particularly considering that fat bike standards and the market are still developing. The performance end of the bike market is fickle and there's a long lag time between ordering and delivery. They could easily end up spec-ing a killer carbon fattie today that would be semi-obsolete by the time it actually arrived here.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

BTW, Chris at BD just informed me that they will have a carbon fork for the Sturgis/Night Train frame in Jan/Feb.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Bnystrom said:


> .... Carbon fiber parts tend to fail catastrophically, which can result in serious injuries..


That post was way too long and I don't want to go down the cf vs to vs Al vs steel rabbit hole. But carbon isn't nearly as risky as many people still think.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...cQX2vAKAVh8eK82Yg&sig2=Lb068I3hlX8YxxqiHjTTQw


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Bnystrom said:


> BTW, Chris at BD just informed me that they will have a carbon fork for the Sturgis/Night Train frame in Jan/Feb.


I was told a couple months ago it will be around $299. I'm not sure I personally see the benefit though, how much lighter and stiffer could it be than the aluminum one?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

siv said:


> I was told a couple months ago it will be around $299. I'm not sure I personally see the benefit though, how much lighter and stiffer could it be than the aluminum one?


I think a full carbon fork would save over a pound. I am not sure if someone posted a weight for it, but the weights posted between NTB and NT rigid suggest it's not a very light fork.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Thanks for the pricing info; that's about what I would have expected.

The difference for comparable forks is ~400 grams (14 ounces). You can see this on Fatbikes.com among other places. Compared to the Bluto, it's 1150 grams or more (2.5 pounds), which is one reason that I'll be switching to a rigid fork. Another is that I can sell the Bluto for considerably more than the cost of a carbon fork. Of course, the main reason is that I really don't think I need front suspension on a fat bike. I'd rather have less weight than extra cush.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

If I knew they were coming out with a carbon fork back when I'd of gotten the NT Bullet instead. Oh well, still love the bike.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

Will they be offering the aluminum fork too? Or just a carbon one? So far, my thoughts are that I'd rather keep my bluto inside, away from the salt and ride rigid for the winter. Of course we just lost all of our snow, and perhaps most of the salt is being washed away.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Carbon fork is tempting. I think the cost to performance ratio isn't quite there compared to carbon wheels (nextie)


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

The stock Alloy/Steel fork on the NIght Train/strugis weighs 1400g. It is porky to say the least. The Bluto only adds 3/4 of a pound.

The Carbon 150mm thru axle forks are coming in sub-600 grams. This is going to be nearly 800g (1.8lb) savings to the stock aluminum fork. You can purchase these from XMIplay already for $150USD + $45 EMS shipping.

I would think $195 to shed 1.8lbs off your bike is pretty good price-to-performance ratio.

A set of carbon wheels is going to shed 1.6lbs of rotation weight (assuming rim-change only. No hub, spoke, nipple changes). You can go tubeless easier than the stock Weinmann rims. Assuming you are using Q-Tube SL's, you can save maybe another 125g per wheel). So that's about 2.2lbs savings. But cost is going to be about $600 ($265/rim + shipping, + sealant).

While 2.2lbs of rotational weight is going to be much more beneficial than 1.8lbs of static weight, you are also looking at 3x the investment for the wheels.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

neons97 said:


> The stock Alloy/Steel fork on the NIght Train/strugis weighs 1400g. It is porky to say the least. The Bluto only adds 3/4 of a pound.
> 
> The Carbon 150mm thru axle forks are coming in sub-600 grams. This is going to be nearly 800g (1.8lb) savings to the stock aluminum fork. You can purchase these from XMIplay already for $150USD + $45 EMS shipping.
> 
> ...


Good find. Didn't know of xmi plays carbon fork. Was referring to the $300 bd fork.

SL tubes weigh 125? That's light! I also think the weight savings my be a bit more than just 2.2. Maybe even more so imagine. Rims and fork!! 

I'll check out those forks from xmi. They should fit our night trains?


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

XMIPlay and Q2 Cycling both have the 150mm full carbon, tapered fork available, that will bolt right up to the Night Train/Sturgis frames. All you need is a new headset compression plug as you can't use the original star nut, and you DO NOT want to use a star nut in a carbon steerer.

XMI play wants $150+ shipping (including thru-axle), Q2 wants $250+ shipping. This is about right as XMIPlay generally wants $550 for frame/fork whereas Q2 asks $700 for Frame/Fork.

I'm waiting for the XMI fork to drop in price a bit. Current 135mm carbon forks go for about $120-$130 range, and don't require the $45 EMS shipping (if bought through stores on eBay). I would do about $150 shipped (with TA), but not $195 shipped.

As for weights...

Weinmann DL80 Drilled (single wall) = 1050g
QTube SL = 250g
Total = 1300g

Carbon 80-90mm rim = 650g (Nextie and LB are similar)
Sealant (4-6oz) = ~125g
Total: 775g

Savings per wheel = ~525g
Total Savings = ~1050g / 2.3lbs


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

fripp said:


> I'll comment that the picture of the nextie rims and the carbon frame were helpful to me. I knew nothing about those rims as I'm pretty new to the fat scene and its good to know a carbon frame like that is out there.
> 
> This forum is real enjoyable to read most of the time but people policing it and deciding what's a valuable comment or not is annoying. If its not valuable to you fine then carry on. No need to take someone else down in the process. Speaking for everyone else is also annoying since you are in no position to speak for me to know if I find value in someone else's information.


I have a couple members on my "ignore" list


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

neons97 said:


> XMIPlay and Q2 Cycling both have the 150mm full carbon, tapered fork available, that will bolt right up to the Night Train/Sturgis frames. All you need is a new headset compression plug as you can't use the original star nut, and you DO NOT want to use a star nut in a carbon steerer.
> 
> XMI play wants $150+ shipping (including thru-axle), Q2 wants $250+ shipping. This is about right as XMIPlay generally wants $550 for frame/fork whereas Q2 asks $700 for Frame/Fork.
> 
> ...


 I looked on the site and I don't see it. I'll have to email them. Thanks for the info. That rim weight helped. So I can possibly get my fatty to 28 lbs


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

2015 IP-N019 carbon fat bike frameset IP-N019 frame and FK-019 fat bike fork-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

It's part of their new "IP-N019" frame/fork. i just asked if they would sell fork-only, and they yes. $150USD + $45 EMS shipping to Canada, including the thru-axle. Good price, but I'll wait till they drop in price to match all the other generic chinese carbon forks (~$150 USD shipped).


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## Superking360 (Nov 26, 2014)

So... two rides in on my Sturgis. Both rides on moderate rolling snow packed trail with a good deal of crusty ice. To get there, I need to cross through the edge of a frozen sandy stretch of a logging/construction site, complete with frozen tread prints in sand from heavy equipment. The bike rolled right through and I had no issues.

I am completely smitten with winter riding and my new fatbike.

Been riding since 1992 and can recall my early days thinking I would try to ride up and into just about anything. Often did, often crashed. Then later in biking life, liked to keep the bikes a bit cleaner and ride a little safer. But the fatbike has changed that.

The sense of exploration has returned, I found myself riding into areas that I would not consider with my 29er. Icy and snowy climbs, random game trail up a side hill, near the sand quarry you name it. Still safe, just more adventurous than I have been in a long time.

This bike has renewed the inner explorer in me an has taken me places I would have not considered in other seasons.

Love the new Sturgis.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Neons97, I'm assuming you weighed the stock fork personally? I though the steer tube was aluminum as well as the blades, kinda shocked at that weight.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Nope, just checked site, says chromo now. I swear when I ordered it said aluminum steer tube.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

siv said:


> Nope, just checked site, says chromo now. I swear when I ordered it said aluminum steer tube.


Yes. I stripped the bike down and weighed every component including the fork. Search earlier in this thread and you'll see all the weights. It has a cromo steer tube as advertised. I ordered on July 28th and since at least a week prior to that I know for certain the specs listed the cromo steerer tube. Crown and blades are aluminum.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

neons97 said:


> 2015 IP-N019 carbon fat bike frameset IP-N019 frame and FK-019 fat bike fork-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.
> 
> It's part of their new "IP-N019" frame/fork. i just asked if they would sell fork-only, and they yes. $150USD + $45 EMS shipping to Canada, including the thru-axle. Good price, but I'll wait till they drop in price to match all the other generic chinese carbon forks (~$150 USD shipped).


I see lots of 135mm forks on Ebay, but no 150s. Have you seen something specific?


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

neons97 said:


> Yes. I stripped the bike down and weighed every component including the fork. Search earlier in this thread and you'll see all the weights.


Unfortunately, the search here is basically useless with crazy long threads like this. Do you have a rough idea of when you posted this information?


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Bnystrom said:


> I see lots of 135mm forks on Ebay, but no 150s. Have you seen something specific?


There is one with carbon legs pressed into a carbon crown/steerer. This will flex like crazy I assume.

I'm waiting for the Q2/XMIplay fork (i.e. monocoque bladed fork) to make it onto eBay sellers. Won't be long. It took a few months before the Light Bicycle/Nextie type carbon wheels were sold laced to Chosen/Novatec hubs on eBay.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Bnystrom said:


> Unfortunately, the search here is basically useless with crazy long threads like this. Do you have a rough idea of when you posted this information?


Motobecane Sturgis / Night Train Thread - Page 42- Mtbr.com


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## fletchercole (Dec 2, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> Given the specs I would say the NTB has the better specs -
> The X7 shifters are more expensive than the Deore (I would say the X7 is closer to SLX level).
> The X7 Front derailleur is more expensive than the Deore as well.
> 
> ...


I did make a mistake in comparing the group sets between the Night Train Bullet and the Boris The Evil Brut Sprung. In my previous post I was looking at the specs for the Boris Brut Sprung instead, which has the Deore, rather than the Deore XT of the Sprung model.

Is there anything on the Boris The Evil Brut Sprung that would be considered superior to what is on the Night Train Bullet? From what I have read here, the Night Train has two things in it's favor, the through rear axle and the internally routed cables. So what does the Boris The Evil Brut Sprung have going in its favor to justify the exact same price as the Night Train Bullet? The Night Train Bullet 19" is now out of stock. I had decided to buy it instead of the Boris, but it looks like I waited too long to place my order....


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

fletchercole said:


> From what I have read here, the Night Train has two things in it's favor, the *through rear axle *and the internally routed cables.


I went from a QR front/rear rigid 29er to the TA of the NTB and it is a night and day (no pun intended) comparison for me on the improved stiffness.

I know there are folks that have great success with QR rear ends but I could never get it to be stiff enough for my liking/needs.

The NTB is nice in the sense that I feel like every pedal stroke goes into moving it forward. No rear end flex :thumbsup:.

YMMV:ihih:


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Anyone want a Sturgis?

BikeIsland.com - Bicycle Parts, Accessories and Clothing at Affordable Prices with Free Shipping


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

fripp said:


> Anyone want a Sturgis?
> 
> BikeIsland.com - Bicycle Parts, Accessories and Clothing at Affordable Prices with Free Shipping


I'd want to know what cosmetic damages there are for only a $50 discount. My guess is it's a customer return or one of those ups damaged ones.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

neons97 said:


> I'd want to know what cosmetic damages there are for only a $50 discount. My guess is it's a customer return or one of those ups damaged ones.


Says scratches on fork. I saw another guy in the Boris Report thread that bought one and loved it. I'd buy it if it was smaller for my kid for sure. BD decent to work with.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Thanks!


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## GaryBee (Jul 5, 2007)

I really like my Sturgis Bullet and posted a review here along with what I though of BD: Its pretty amazing value for $1,300.

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/sturgis-night-train-bikes-direct-review-942518.html


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

KHS is making a carbon frame and fork for season 5 (2015). It looks like the fork will be 150mm.... and the KHS aluminum frames for 2014 were the same design as the Boris. Here is the 2015 bike due out soon :


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I like the look of that! Very Alaskan Carbon-esque 


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

I agree.!.. 9zero7. I don't think anyone could say they wouldn't want one of those ; )

I think 2015 will be the year of options in Fatties. And within a year, the competition will be making carbon dual squishies to compete with the Bucksaw. the brand will drift into two categories... snow bikes (>=5" tires) 32+lbs, and "all-season" competition bikes (3.8-4") that are around 24-28 lbs.

that's my guess.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I'm waiting for the first person to throw some carbon rims on the sturgis/night train. I'm game maybe next winter. 


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

beachbum1 said:


> I'm waiting for the first person to throw some carbon rims on the sturgis/night train. I'm game maybe next winter.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same here. Been toying with idea but bought bike as budget winter bike. Can't spend that much with i9 hubs even though I want to.

Broke my first set of rear hubs but bikes direct took awesome care of me. If I break it again I'll upgrade. till then I'm happy!


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

I've also broken the rear hub... three rides in. BD sent out a replacement wheel fairly promptly... but the rear hub they sent was set up for 190QR... kind of frustrating! Had to have my LBS pull apart the old hub to get the right axel and spacers on there. 

They also sent a fully built wheelset.. so I had to swap over my Surly ultralight tubes and the 120TPI snowshoes that came on my bike as the replacement wheelset had the 72TPI non-silica version of the tire on it. Oh, and those heavy ass Vee ruber tubes... swapping to the Surly tubes saved almost 2 lbs in rotating mass alone! Yowzers.

Only three rides in... so not really enough time to really get to know the bike but so far, so good! Pretty fun to ride. Got the PSI more dialed on last ride.. 10.0 front and 9.0 rear... gonna drop that down another PSI when I'll be riding on snow.

Need to swap out the rim strips next... and a new stem too.. WTF with the stem that came on it.. freakin Giraffe! A nice 70mm stem on there and it will shape up the front handling quit nicely given the slackness the 120mm Bluto gives the bike. Already swapped out the bar (Ibis carbon), seatpost (thompson) and saddle (WTB Pure V). Also have plans to go 1x up front and go the One UP route out back... 

Guide brakes are okay... but are not in the same class as XT/Ice Tech in my opinion. At least they don't squeal like howler monkeys on crack.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

okay, stupid questions about converting to 1x... what options are there?

All this "chain line, bb length spindle whatzitjigmathing" talk is got my head spinning.

Cinch I know is sweet, but spendy. X1 is more affordable, but can only go to 30T... but that might be okay with a one up 42T in the rear... I run XO1 30T 11 speed today on my niner.

Other options?


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I went with a cinch turbine which cost me $270 from bikeman which included the BB, 26t chainring, and cranks. Turnkey. Throw that in with a 42t and I have exactly the range I want. 26t up front with 42t in rear has a similar ratio to 22t up front and 36t in back in 2 by 10 setup. Of course you could always try the one up and see how it goes by itself.I personally needed lower gears. With respect to chainline I have no issues. I can back pedal with no problems. I think the direct mount aspect of the crank gets the single ring closer to the middle of the cassette. 


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Shifty Bits said:


> okay, stupid questions about converting to 1x... what options are there?
> 
> All this "chain line, bb length spindle whatzitjigmathing" talk is got my head spinning.
> 
> ...


One option would be to simply stick with the Samox cranks you now have and put a bash guard on the spider where the 36t ring is. BBG has them for 18 bucks shipped. Go with the smallest Bash which would be a 32 sized one. Then where your 22t ring is now which has a 64BCD(Bolt Circle Diameter) bolt pattern put a 26t,28t,30t or 32t NW ring. Absolute Black has this range of 64BCD NW ring options. They run about 50 bucks plus shipping. I went with a 30t and have had no issues, works like a charm.
Optimal 1X chainline(Measurement in mm from center of bike frame to center of chainring) for a 190 rear spacing(Measurement in mm between the frame where the rear tire sits) seems to be about 70mm or so and this setup puts it at 72mm.
I only added the extra definitions for those not familiar with the terminology.


----------



## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Shifty Bits said:


> I've also broken the rear hub... three rides in. BD sent out a replacement wheel fairly promptly... but the rear hub they sent was set up for 190QR... kind of frustrating! Had to have my LBS pull apart the old hub to get the right axel and spacers on there.
> 
> They also sent a fully built wheelset.. so I had to swap over my Surly ultralight tubes and the 120TPI snowshoes that came on my bike as the replacement wheelset had the 72TPI non-silica version of the tire on it. Oh, and those heavy ass Vee ruber tubes... swapping to the Surly tubes saved almost 2 lbs in rotating mass alone! Yowzers.


I had the same issue, 65 miles in, rear hub just exploded. The hub ring actually cracked. I spoke with Bikes Direct and they were AWESOME to say the least, they sent me a replacement wheel fast. But they ended up sending me a full wheelset with 72tp tires as well. And what they did was send the wheel with 170 rear spacing. I installed it and was like WTF why is my bike rear wheel not moving, why is there Play, why is my derailluer messed up!!! I compared the axles by removing them and it was clearly different. Swapped it and I was back in business. Just sent out the box back to them yesterday.

I'm a little worried of the longevity of the rear novatec hub. I am 230 lbs and I barely rode the bike. I can understand the hub being 190 mm spacing being a culprit as well but I don't feel confident this hub will last the long haul. Not sure how I feel about possibly upgrading just the rear to an Industry 9 hub to just not have to worry. What I promised myself was I wasn't going to spend money on this bike! Industry 9 wheels and NExtie wheels will end up costing me like $1200-1400 total with labor/shipping/parts. I guess I can say the cost I saved from buying a Fatboy went into carbon wheels.



Shifty Bits said:


> Need to swap out the rim strips next... and a new stem too.. WTF with the stem that came on it.. freakin Giraffe! A nice 70mm stem on there and it will shape up the front handling quit nicely given the slackness the 120mm Bluto gives the bike. Already swapped out the bar (Ibis carbon), seatpost (thompson) and saddle (WTB Pure V). Also have plans to go 1x up front and go the One UP route out back...
> 
> Guide brakes are okay... but are not in the same class as XT/Ice Tech in my opinion. At least they don't squeal like howler monkeys on crack.


I put a 40 mm stem and lvoe it. the 170 was insane, I also did the Wolf 42t and love it. I may need to get a cinch turbine to do a 28 T but not sure I want to spend again. I LOVE the guides, i normally am a Shimano guy but man that lack of dead pedal feel is great. I want to switch.



beachbum1 said:


> I went with a cinch turbine which cost me $270 from bikeman which included the BB, 26t chainring, and cranks. Turnkey. Throw that in with a 42t and I have exactly the range I want. 26t up front with 42t in rear has a similar ratio to 22t up front and 36t in back in 2 by 10 setup. Of course you could always try the one up and see how it goes by itself.I personally needed lower gears. With respect to chainline I have no issues. I can back pedal with no problems. I think the direct mount aspect of the crank gets the single ring closer to the middle of the cassette.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is that this?

Bikeman RaceFace Turbine CINCH Crank + Chainring + BB Custom Package

How easy was install? Did you put in a new BB?


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

That's the one. I have no bike mechanic skills whatsoever and I was able to do it without a problem. There aren't specific directions to the 100mm BB just the regular sized ones but I followed the directions with 2 spacers in the drive side and one in the non drive side and it worked great. You will need a special raceface BB tool and a park tool piece(don't recall the number offhand ) to install and remove the chainring. There is a thread detailing installing this exact crankset somewhere in the forum recently. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Anybody else have rear hub issues?
In building s new wheel set and was going to just reuse the hubs. A bit nervous now..
Granted, I'm only 145 lbs and I've never broken a hub in my life... But....


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

tfinator said:


> Anybody else have rear hub issues?
> In building s new wheel set and was going to just reuse the hubs. A bit nervous now..
> Granted, I'm only 145 lbs and I've never broken a hub in my life... But....


I'm not an expert but my guess is a few things:

1. Cheap defective hubs
2. Lack of engagement in pawls, large width, amount of force/torque to pull wide wheels/tires plus force added from pawls to hub may have been a combination to fail.
3. I'm heavy (240 lbs)

I've decided to buy Industry 9 hubs for my future build. I look at it as, "money saved from a name brand bike" will go towards nice wheels.

I'm still undecided if I want to do Nextie Tires since I can feel the tire bottoming out on the rim on fast rocky descents. Maybe I don't have enough air pressure but that scares me with carbon on rock hits.

I've priced things out but a heads up, Jenson USA will take 15% off I9 if you have those promo codes they give out. So far only color they have available in the spacing I want is Blue. May just go with blue since the bike has enough black!


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

beachbum1 said:


> That's the one. I have no bike mechanic skills whatsoever and I was able to do it without a problem. There aren't specific directions to the 100mm BB just the regular sized ones but I followed the directions with 2 spacers in the drive side and one in the non drive side and it worked great. You will need a special raceface BB tool and a park tool piece(don't recall the number offhand ) to install and remove the chainring. There is a thread detailing installing this exact crankset somewhere in the forum recently.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Any chance you can show pictures? You also have a night train or sturgis?


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

Yeah, I'm heavy too... but have enough leg strength to get my fat ass up most hills. This one craps the bed, I'm going to the Hope Fatsnos put in there. done and done.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Shifty Bits said:


> Yeah, I'm heavy too... but have enough leg strength to get my fat ass up most hills. This one craps the bed, I'm going to the Hope Fatsnos put in there. done and done.


I read on facebook fat bike pages that those hubs also crack/break. Did you hear the same?


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## RobertAxle142 (Mar 19, 2013)

*Little help with Thru-axle*

A request for those of you that have received your Sturgis/Night Train.

We produce thru-axles to adapt accessories to your new fat bike, like racks from Old Man Mountain or trailers from Burley or BOB.

What we're asking is someone to pull their rear axle, measure the length of it and the thread pitch. We believe we already produce a solution for these models, but we have not been able to put on our hands on them directly to to get those specs.

Print this sheet to measure your axle with:
http://www.robertaxleproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/RAP_fitment_guide1.pdf

Thanks in advance for the help.
RobertAxleProject.com


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

skywardx said:


> One option would be to simply stick with the Samox cranks you now have and put a bash guard on the spider where the 36t ring is. BBG has them for 18 bucks shipped. Go with the smallest Bash which would be a 32 sized one. Then where your 22t ring is now which has a 64BCD(Bolt Circle Diameter) bolt pattern put a 26t,28t,30t or 32t NW ring. Absolute Black has this range of 64BCD NW ring options. They run about 50 bucks plus shipping. I went with a 30t and have had no issues, works like a charm.
> Optimal 1X chainline(Measurement in mm from center of bike frame to center of chainring) for a 190 rear spacing(Measurement in mm between the frame where the rear tire sits) seems to be about 70mm or so and this setup puts it at 72mm.
> I only added the extra definitions for those not familiar with the terminology.


This is the exact setup I'm running and love it. 26t ring, havent put on a 32t bash yet so for now I'm just running the 36t as a dinglespeed. I put a One-Up 42t/16t combo on the cassette, I have the same climbing ratio as before with the 22/36 and still have plenty of high gear available (at least for as fast as I feel like going on this bike! Something about high speeds on this bike just doesnt sit well with me- too much tire inertia)


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Shifty Bits said:


> okay, stupid questions about converting to 1x... what options are there?
> 
> All this "chain line, bb length spindle whatzitjigmathing" talk is got my head spinning.
> 
> ...


I used the Raceface Turbine (for 190 rear, not 170) which came with the crank arms, BB, spacers and spider - everything but rings. I put a 30T on it and a bash guard too (to save my pants from getting caught which works well btw). Was easy to put on.

So 1x10 now and chainline is great.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

fripp said:


> I used the Raceface Turbine (for 190 rear, not 170) which came with the crank arms, BB, spacers and spider - everything but rings. I put a 30T on it and a bash guard too (to save my pants from getting caught which works well btw). Was easy to put on.
> 
> So 1x10 now and chainline is great.


Ya once I wear out my Samox cranks that's where I'm headed. Ive got several hundred miles on these and they seem to be holding up fine. This bikes been a lot of fun.


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

fripp said:


> I used the Raceface Turbine (for 190 rear, not 170) which came with the crank arms, BB, spacers and spider - everything but rings. I put a 30T on it and a bash guard too (to save my pants from getting caught which works well btw). Was easy to put on.
> 
> So 1x10 now and chainline is great.


I went with the 190 Turbine as well, but I'm running it 2 x 10. Easy install, perfect chainline. Couldn't be happier...SC


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Why spend that much money on a crank, esp when the RaceFace BB is prone to problems? On my 190mm spaced Lurch, I replaced the stock Samox with a FSA Comet Fat Crank, it's very stiff, not heavy, it comes with a BB and rings, and the price is right ($150):

FSA Comet Fat Bike 100mm - BB Standard - FSA

Anyone need a set of barely used stock Samox?



skywardx said:


> Ya once I wear out my Samox cranks that's where I'm headed. Ive got several hundred miles on these and they seem to be holding up fine. This bikes been a lot of fun.


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

this is why I want to buy a fat bike. ENJOY!!


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Why spend that much money on a crank, esp when the RaceFace BB is prone to problems? On my 190mm spaced Lurch, I replaced the stock Samox with a FSA Comet Fat Crank, it's very stiff, not heavy, it comes with a BB and rings, and the price is right ($150):
> 
> FSA Comet Fat Bike 100mm - BB Standard - FSA
> 
> Anyone need a set of barely used stock Samox?


That's a 100 mm spindle not 120mm. Maybe the Lurch chain stays are narrower than the Night Train. I believe my heals would hit if I put a standard length crank on my Night Train.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

siv said:


> That's a 100 mm spindle not 120mm. Maybe the Lurch chain stays are narrower than the Night Train. I believe my heals would hit if I put a standard length crank on my Night Train.


I have 100mm spindle cranks (170 O.L.D. Race Face Ride) on my Night Train. Plenty of clearance for me size 44 feet clipped into XT trail pedals. I haven't tried it with flats yet, but I have plenty of heel-to-chainstay clearance with no rubbing, let along heel strikes.


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## woodsskier (Nov 28, 2012)

X9 cranks with XT pedals and no issues here on a night train. My cleats are mounted relatively straight, I could see running into issues if the cleats were curved inwards.


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

*Bluto Travel Length Question*

I'm looking to put a Bluto on the my Night Train, but I'm curious about travel length. I was considering the 80mm because I've heard the 100mm really alters the standover height and overall geometry. Opinions?...SC


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

The Stock Night Train comes with a 120mm Bluto - some have stated it raises the front too much and makes stand over height an issue. I guess that depends on where it is currently - if you are close you probably don't want to raise it any. I would think if you are worried about it you should go more for a 100mm vs the 120, not all the way down to 80 - 
Just like HT angle - some prefer more slack, others less slack, changing the fork can change that as well and have an effect on handling. Depending on where you feel your bike is now vs. how you want it this can be a good or a bad thing. 

I really like how my Sturgis Bullet handles - it really likes to lean into corners and has very confident manners downhill. It is a bit sluggish on the tight technical sections, but the fatness just rolls over anything so picking a precise line is not so much an issue. That and the fat tires make it a bit sluggish when trying to flick the front to get a perfect line. Took a bit to get used to but once I "got it" I really dig this bike.


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

Destr0 said:


> The Stock Night Train comes with a 120mm Bluto - some have stated it raises the front too much and makes stand over height an issue. I guess that depends on where it is currently - if you are close you probably don't want to raise it any. I would think if you are worried about it you should go more for a 100mm vs the 120, not all the way down to 80 -
> Just like HT angle - some prefer more slack, others less slack, changing the fork can change that as well and have an effect on handling. Depending on where you feel your bike is now vs. how you want it this can be a good or a bad thing.
> 
> I really like how my Sturgis Bullet handles - it really likes to lean into corners and has very confident manners downhill. It is a bit sluggish on the tight technical sections, but the fatness just rolls over anything so picking a precise line is not so much an issue. That and the fat tires make it a bit sluggish when trying to flick the front to get a perfect line. Took a bit to get used to but once I "got it" I really dig this bike.


Thanks! I took your advice and went with the 100mm. I'm looking forward to trying it out next week or so...SC


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

FatBikeNoob said:


> this is why I want to buy a fat bike. ENJOY!!


awesome video! ..thanks for sharing.

... that looks like Squamish, BC.


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

clark4131 said:


> I'm looking to put a Bluto on the my Night Train, but I'm curious about travel length. I was considering the 80mm because I've heard the 100mm really alters the standover height and overall geometry. Opinions?...SC


I ordered the 100 air sleeve and installed with some extra bottomless tokens (I weigh 220). I really think the 100 was an improvement.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

Last night, I whacked together some Ghetto Fenders for my NTB. I can't take credit for the idea to use a plastic 55 Gallon Drum. That brilliant idea came from another thread specifically focused on fatbike Fenders. If I wasn't in a rush, I'd link to it.

The black plastic Barrel cost $20 from a local Craigslist ad. I think I put another $10 into some small hardware, including the 1 1/4" freezer plug that attaches the front fender to the underside of the Bluto Shock fork.

All else was garage hack job engineering. The drum diameter was like 24" and the tire diameter was like 32", so I had to coax the shape of the fender a little bit with a heat gun.

I'm taking it out later today to see how it goes. Right now, i think they're functional, but cosmetically lacking. Perfect for me 

Happy Holidays everyone.


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## H.Seaward (Dec 18, 2010)

There is so much wrong in those photos.


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

H.Seaward said:


> There is so much wrong in those photos.


These have a better look and are cheaper. I think I will order a set and cobble them to the frame.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

EddieZ said:


> View attachment 949945
> View attachment 949946
> View attachment 949948
> View attachment 949949
> ...


Is there something wrong with the left side chain stay? It looks all bent up. Is that how it really looks on all of the bikes?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

H.Seaward said:


> There is so much wrong in those photos.


LOL. Fairly ridiculous, I agree. Looks like hell. Not sure I'm gonna keep 'em yet. It might be just a phase.

I tried 'em out today and aimed at every muddy puddle and mud bog the park had to throw at me. I actually had a lot of fun doing that. Made me feel like I was a 10yo again. But I digress....

I should mention the problem I was trying to solve in the first place: There's been a few times where the tire tread got completely caked with mud. Shortly thereafter, I'd hit a dry patch and all the mud would shed from the front tire and hit me in the face, sometimes with a bit of force. The actual problem could've been resolved with a footlong rectangle of material affixed to the tire side of the down tube. I didn't care about wet or muddy clothing or dirty bikes, or crud in my derailleur. I really didn't care about anything else other than this muddy shrapnel that happened on 1% of certain rides.

But I started tracking another MTBR thread about various homemade fenders and the Plastic barrel idea seemed fun to try. I think I'll admit that the project in itself was my attraction to this. It became more about the project, and less about solving the problem. One thing led to the other and I had some hack job fenders.

So today was their maiden voyage. Some discoveries: They did a whole lot of flapping in the 75-80mph wind while the bike was on the car rack. Once on the trail, the front of the front fender whacked frequently onto the front tire, and can use either some trimming or a bit more support. (Or I use the clatter sound to warn any bears that I'm coming). The rear P-clamps I used were too big resulting in some unnecessary chatter of the rear fender. But overall, they were surprisingly effective at keeping mud and wetness off of me.

But then I had a whole ride to contemplate the ridiculousness of it all. Wondered why I really needed these things at all!! Did I really need them, or was I doing just fine without them?? At the end of the day, the bike was still covered in mud and needed to be hosed off at home (but now there's more surface area to clean). The bike was heavier. Slight as it may be, the added weight made the front wheel even more sluggish to turn. Also at the end of the day, my clothing still needed to be washed. My derailleur still got crudded up. In short, I don't know if I had a truly worthy problem to resolve.

The primary advantage to the eyesore and weight added to my bike was that I WASN'T totally soaked from head to toe with muddy water. (I was just soaked head to toe with sweat, as usual). However, I could have resolved some of that my not purposely hitting every possible mud puddle in the park too. LOL.

I can see wanting them only for select rides though...but then I'd have to develop the ability for quick on/off capability. We'll see. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

Higgins17 said:


> Is there something wrong with the left side chain stay? It looks all bent up. Is that how it really looks on all of the bikes?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nothing's bent.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

EddieZ said:


> Nothing's bent.


Ok, thanks! I think that may be the first time I've seen the non-drive side of a NTB. Mine's coming in the next batch - can't wait! Just having a hard time not making this a $3k bike with add-ons given all of the good ideas in the forum...


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## H.Seaward (Dec 18, 2010)

EddieZ said:


> LOL. Fairly ridiculous, I agree. Looks like hell. Not sure I'm gonna keep 'em yet. It might be just a phase.


Sounds like you're loving it so don't change a thing. (Well, maybe take those reflectors of. Please.)


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

H.Seaward said:


> Sounds like you're loving it so don't change a thing. (Well, maybe take those reflectors of. Please.)


Or don't remove them if you like them.


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## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

Re: Reflectors: OK, OK, they're coming off. I didn't even really notice them before, till you said something.


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## AllyTrash (Dec 28, 2014)

Thanks for all great info guys! I just paid for a new NTB for myself for Xmas. It's due in the January - February shipment. After reading this entire thread I'm way excited to get this bike and ride and mod this thing to make it mine.

This is an awesome group with a wealth of information!


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## aliG (Dec 21, 2014)

H.Seaward said:


> There is so much wrong in those photos.


Just go with SKS mud guards

DAD in front MOM in back.


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

This product looks effective and easy to install. You just pinch it slightly and slide it into seat rails. I might try to make one out of windshield wiper fluid bottle (cut off top & bottom and you got long piece of plastic) or coroplast (plastic cardboard used for signs).

Ass Savers - Bicycle mudguards (scroll to bottom for easy install video of how it slides and locks around seat rails)

MTB and Fat bike version = Ass Saver Wide | Ass Savers


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

AllyTrash said:


> Thanks for all great info guys! I just paid for a new NTB for myself for Xmas. It's due in the January - February shipment. After reading this entire thread I'm way excited to get this bike and ride and mod this thing to make it mine.
> 
> This is an awesome group with a wealth of information!


I echo the thanks! Things went the other way for me. I ordered the bike and then I found this site because it was the only thing that came up when I googled Motobecane Sturgis (the other thread http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/moto-bikes-direct-fatbikes-875900.html)


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

still loving my bike!


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## AllyTrash (Dec 28, 2014)

aliG said:


> Just go with SKS mud guards
> 
> DAD in front MOM in back.


I use the SKS fenders, Grand Dad & Grand Mom on my AM MTB and plan to use them on my Night Train


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

Looks like NTB 15.5", 17.5", and 19" are all sold out for this batch. Game on - they can't ship soon enough!


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

Yeah, that is definitely one way! The Samox cranks seem like they are made of lead though... anyone know the grams?


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

AllyTrash said:


> I use the SKS fenders, Grand Dad & Grand Mom on my AM MTB and plan to use them on my Night Train


2.5" wide... is that wide enough?


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

*Bluto Install*

So, Santa brought me a Bluto and I installed it today. First and foremost, just riding around the neighborhood, suspension is ALWAYS a good thing. So much so, my full-rigid single-speed will be getting front suspension next. If you're in the market for a fat bike and are used to riding sprung, spend the extra money and get the Bluto. I didn't have a choice when I bought my Night Train, so I had to go aftermarket. I was concerned with the geometry and heard the 120mm Bluto that comes from BikesDirect is a bit tall. After some hemming and hawing, I went with the 100mm and for a large frame, it is spot on!

Second, if you're doing the install yourself, you're going to need a new crown race as the one on the stock fork won't work. The stock steerer tube is a straight 1 1/8" with a larger, tapered race on the bottom to accommodate the tapered headtube and bearing. The stock bearings are good to go, but not the race. It cost me $15 and 20 minutes at my LBS for the race and to have them pound it on.

Third, star-fangled nuts are the bane of my existence! Other than that, install is straight forward and takes no time at all. We've got snow on the way tonight, so maybe, just maybe I'll be able to put it through some cold weather trials in the next day or two. Pics attached, don't make fun of my messy garage!...SC


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## AllyTrash (Dec 28, 2014)

Shifty Bits said:


> 2.5" wide... is that wide enough?


Mine are 4"+ but I won't be able to ride with them until my bike arrives mid February. Anyone else try these?


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## AllyTrash (Dec 28, 2014)

Congrats Clark4131! 
Looks awesome and I'm extremely jealous! I've got snow on the ground but no fat bike yet.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

AllyTrash said:


> Mine are 4"+ but I won't be able to ride with them until my bike arrives mid February. Anyone else try these?


The SKS Grand Daddy fenders are 2.5" wide as far as I can tell... seems skinny to use on a fatty.


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## AllyTrash (Dec 28, 2014)

Shifty Bits said:


> The SKS Grand Daddy fenders are 2.5" wide as far as I can tell... seems skinny to use on a fatty.


These are mine


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

Thanks for the measure... stupid internet! Would prefer the PDW Mud Shovel at 5.5" wide... but out of stock... seriously... how hard is it to get more of those made?


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## AllyTrash (Dec 28, 2014)

I know what you mean about going out of stock. I'm looking for that revelite Ranger frame bag that was posted 20 to 30 pages ago but I guess they sold out and went out of business.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

AllyTrash said:


> I know what you mean about going out of stock. I'm looking for that revelite Ranger frame bag that was posted 20 to 30 pages ago but I guess they sold out and went out of business.


I found these, like the Ranger without the bottom 1/3 of bag.
Thinking of trying this for my med NTB:
Frame Pack Universal 23 Degree

Or even larger Jandd:
Frame Pack Large
:thumbsup:


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

clark4131 said:


> So, Santa brought me a Bluto and I installed it today. First and foremost, just riding around the neighborhood, suspension is ALWAYS a good thing. So much so, my full-rigid single-speed will be getting front suspension next. If you're in the market for a fat bike and are used to riding sprung, spend the extra money and get the Bluto. I didn't have a choice when I bought my Night Train, so I had to go aftermarket. I was concerned with the geometry and heard the 120mm Bluto that comes from BikesDirect is a bit tall. After some hemming and hawing, I went with the 100mm and for a large frame, it is spot on!
> 
> Second, if you're doing the install yourself, you're going to need a new crown race as the one on the stock fork won't work. The stock steerer tube is a straight 1 1/8" with a larger, tapered race on the bottom to accommodate the tapered headtube and bearing. The stock bearings are good to go, but not the race. It cost me $15 and 20 minutes at my LBS for the race and to have them pound it on.
> 
> Third, star-fangled nuts are the bane of my existence! Other than that, install is straight forward and takes no time at all. We've got snow on the way tonight, so maybe, just maybe I'll be able to put it through some cold weather trials in the next day or two. Pics attached, don't make fun of my messy garage!...SC


Thanks for the info....Im installing a Bluto on my NT and would appreciate if you could tell me the specific race that was used...brand? Part#?

Thanks


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

$50 or $100 frame pack? It's some nylon, zippers and velcro for cripes sakes!

I got one of these for Christmas... fits just fine and will hold assorted crap just as well as ones costing 5 or 10 times more.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H55I8J8/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_gtCHub0ZRR0MX

$10.99 and free 2 day shipping with prime.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Shifty Bits said:


> $50 or $100 frame pack? It's some nylon, zippers and velcro for cripes sakes!
> 
> I got one of these for Christmas... fits just fine and will hold assorted crap just as well as ones costing 5 or 10 times more.
> 
> ...


Got same bag. $12 shipped. can't go wrong. Not sure why these bags even cost $40+. Its a bag. The Iberia has served my well. Got a large for my medium night train


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

Tonggi said:


> Got same bag. $12 shipped. can't go wrong. Not sure why these bags even cost $40+. Its a bag. The Iberia has served my well. Got a large for my medium night train


How tight is the fit on your medium? Trying to get one for a small that has 1" shorter top tube and 2" shorter seat tube. Want to get the biggest that will fit well. Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

mine is a large on a large NT and fits well with room to spare to the down tube.

I'll take a pic tomorrow


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

Shifty Bits said:


> mine is a large on a large NT and fits well with room to spare to the down tube.
> 
> I'll take a pic tomorrow


Thanks! Looks line the Amazon dimensions are 16x17x11. If the top tune dimension is 11 that means it should definitely fit the small frame, otherwise a medium may be more advisable.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gjbiker (Oct 21, 2007)

Shifty Bits said:


> $50 or $100 frame pack? It's some nylon, zippers and velcro for cripes sakes!
> 
> I got one of these for Christmas... fits just fine and will hold assorted crap just as well as ones costing 5 or 10 times more.
> 
> ...


The zipper had only one closure and that closes toward the seat post. Makes it hard to put a battery in for a light without having a lot of cord hanging out. Has stiff polyester covered pvc. I would not buy one again, will probably replace it with a Jandd.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

skywardx said:


> Thanks for the info....Im installing a Bluto on my NT and would appreciate if you could tell me the specific race that was used...brand? Part#?
> 
> Thanks


No gotsa the part number. I just took the Bluto and the lower bearing in to my LBS and we matched one from their stock...SC


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Higgins17 said:


> How tight is the fit on your medium? Trying to get one for a small that has 1" shorter top tube and 2" shorter seat tube. Want to get the biggest that will fit well. Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not snug or tight. It looks like it was made perfectly for the frame.


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Santa gave me the new Topeak Fat bike pump, the Thule fat bike conversion for the 916XT, a new set of winter riding gloves, and a new light. 

I can't wait for the NTB to arrive late Jan/early Feb.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I have that same Iberia bag on my XL Sturgis. Still has enough room to use my lower water bottle cage.  Great bag for the price - I use it all the time to stash layers when riding in the cold. It does not do a good job of holding my light battery as mentioned, but with the bag in place the cheap Velcro battery bag does stay in place better, I wedge it in with the frame bag.


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## H.Seaward (Dec 18, 2010)

Tonggi said:


> Not snug or tight. It looks like it was made perfectly for the frame.


No it doesn't. It looks like it fits in the triangle and that's about it.

The Banjo Brothers frame pack is excellent. Still allows for 2 water bottles, quality materials, well thought out. $35 on their website (You can find them for about $30 elsewhere)

My only issue is that the front of the bag doesn't fit snugly in the front of the frame, but its off the rack so can't complain too much.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

H.Seaward said:


> No it doesn't. It looks like it fits in the triangle and that's about it.
> 
> The Banjo Brothers frame pack is excellent. Still allows for 2 water bottles, quality materials, well thought out. $35 on their website (You can find them for about $30 elsewhere)
> 
> My only issue is that the front of the bag doesn't fit snugly in the front of the frame, but its off the rack so can't complain too much.


Let me rephrase. Fits perfectly for my needs. I dont need space for bottle cages like some guys. I like the space so I can carry a smaller camelback.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

gjbiker said:


> The zipper had only one closure and that closes toward the seat post. Makes it hard to put a battery in for a light without having a lot of cord hanging out. Has stiff polyester covered pvc. I would not buy one again, will probably replace it with a Jandd.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mine has two zippers... a main compartment and a smaller one. I do think the zippers run to the seat but I don't really care... I run a cordless light on the bar so no worries there. Although if I was concerned about cord routing I'd just cut a small hole in the front of the bag. As for the material... as long as it's durable who cares? And it seems durable. And if it isn't... I spent $12


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

For $12 with shipping I have no complaints. I have used mine enough in the few rides I have gotten in this winter to justify the cost. Much higher cost and I probably wouldn't have a frame bag.  I like being able to ditch a layer/stash gloves or my hat without having to stop and get my backpack off. I may have to put a grommet in the front so I can run my light battery pack inside. Good idea - and if the bag were expensive I would not want to put a hole in it, but for $12 it is fair game.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

My ibera large bag comes today. While it isn't custom, these pics make it look like exactly what I am looking for. And at $15 CAD shipp d, I can't go wrong. I could spend $100 on a bag, but then I would be riding an expensive specialized, salsa, etc. and not a motobecane. The ibera fits the motobecane price/value relationship nicely 😄


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Santa brought me and my son a set of these:

http://www.amazon.com/ScootR-Logic-...&qid=1419963327&sr=8-1&keywords=scooter+logic


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

EddieZ said:


> Re: Reflectors: OK, OK, they're coming off. I didn't even really notice them before, till you said something.


I'm calling BS on that one, Eddie. I told you from minute 1 of our first ride to remove those offensive things.


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## Johnny_T (May 29, 2004)

I have questions. I know all the answers are probably in this thread already but I have spent the last two days reading through a lot of it and still have a few question. 

1. Sizing-I am exactly 6' tall, 33 in inseam. I am right between a 17" and a 19". I am leaning toward ordering the 19". I have a 19" MB Ti 29 that fits me perfect. From the geometry charts the geometry looks similar. Any advice or experience? 

2. I don't think I want the Bluto, but if I don't get the Bluto equipped NT it looks like it will be May until I get one. This raises a couple of questions:
2a. Has anybody found a cheap carbon 150 mm spaced fork that I could replace the Bluto with? 
2b. With all the discussion about the hubs and the spacers, do I need a 150 spaced fork or could I use a 135 mm fork? 
2c. Am I crazy for not wanting the Bluto? I want this as a winter/backwoods bike, I like the simplicity of a rigid fork (I have a rigid fork on my Ti 29er too, although I own (and love) a SC Tallboy).

Thanks in advance for your help.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

Johny_T:

I'm 5-11... (and 1/2! lol) with a 30 inch inseam and I got the Large/19. I did this because I believe ETT is the most critical measurement for fit. I'm always way more comfortable on 24" ETT bikes.. anything less than that then I start jamming the saddle all the way back (or get a layback post AND put it back), longer stem, etc. All of which make most bike feel a bit wonky. 

Sure, the stand over could be falsetto inducing... but thems the breaks, so to speak. I would have preferred a sloping top tube frame like the Boris Evil, but (a) I had already ordered mine and (b) I don't like the offset 190 rear on the Boris as I think 197x12 is going to be the standard going forward for non rear suspension fatties.

Get the bluto. you'll love it plus higher resale value.


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

Johnny_T said:


> I have questions. I know all the answers are probably in this thread already but I have spent the last two days reading through a lot of it and still have a few question.
> 
> 1. Sizing-I am exactly 6' tall, 33 in inseam. I am right between a 17" and a 19". I am leaning toward ordering the 19". I have a 19" MB Ti 29 that fits me perfect. From the geometry charts the geometry looks similar. Any advice or experience?
> 
> ...


I'm the same size as you and went with the Large, very comfortable fit. All my bikes are Large frames, so it was a no-brainer for me. I also just put on a Bluto yesterday, and if you have the opportunity to get one, I say do it! I think BD is coming out with a carbon fork soon, so that might just what you're looking for in that arena. The stock front wheel has spacers, but I can't remember what the hub measures without them. I'm pretty sure it's 135 though. Large with Bluto is my advice, then you don't have to worry about anything else...SC


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

Johnny_T said:


> I have questions. I know all the answers are probably in this thread already but I have spent the last two days reading through a lot of it and still have a few question.
> 
> 1. Sizing-I am exactly 6' tall, 33 in inseam. I am right between a 17" and a 19". I am leaning toward ordering the 19". I have a 19" MB Ti 29 that fits me perfect. From the geometry charts the geometry looks similar. Any advice or experience?
> 
> ...


1. go a size smaller than your MTB bikes, if you plan to ride snow. EFF top tube length wont become as important as standover height. And the NTB w/120 bluto have a higher than posted standover. when the crown jewels hit the top tube....or not... will determine 17 or 19 for you.

2. iplay has a 150 carbon fork.,

3. bluto w/LO option rocks.

4. try shorter stem (60-80) and wider bars (785+) with ergons and the ride will become completely dfferent.


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## jazzer2 (Aug 14, 2006)

I finally got my bike under control. I set the fork up with a little more sag, about 30%, and adjusted the damping to get it to sit a little lower. More importantly, I mounted a set of Surly Nates front and back and that completely changed the handling of the bike.

Where before the front end would wonder all over and self-steer, the Nates track much better with a minimum of steer. The traction is rock solid. I can rail the corners without fear. I imagine a front specific tire would be even better.

Still waiting for some deeper snow to test the Nates but the Snowshoes are completely mis-named. They have no forward traction and no side traction at all, I'm not sure what they are good for. 

I picked up some used Nates, 27tpi, very heavy but effective. I'm setting my sights on something lighter weight, ideally Dillingers.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

jazzer2 said:


> I finally got my bike under control. I set the fork up with a little more sag, about 30%, and adjusted the damping to get it to sit a little lower. More importantly, I mounted a set of Surly Nates front and back and that completely changed the handling of the bike.
> 
> Where before the front end would wonder all over and self-steer, the Nates track much better with a minimum of steer. The traction is rock solid. I can rail the corners without fear. I imagine a front specific tire would be even better.
> 
> ...


I thought the snowshoes were fine. Pretty good traction and lighter than on one floaters. I'm gona keep them for a summer tire to preserve the good ones.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

My Bud and Lou for my Sturgis Bullet came today. Not that I am unhappy with the Snowshoes, just wanted to go bigger and after seeing the Bud and Lou on bikes on the trails and in the LBS I had to do it.


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## Todd Choti (Nov 17, 2014)

I could not wait any longer for BD to get the D-hangers in stock. 
so I decided to fab up a steel one. I will use this one as a temp, until I can come up with a replacement. After that this will go in bike bag, now I know unless the derailleur itself cracks, I can use this to get out of the woods.


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## nzxt (Nov 12, 2014)

Todd, congrats on making it work. You could prolly go into business and sell them, if that prototype works out well. make 60 @$20/ea and your bike is pretty much paid off.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

That's awesome! How did you cut the sheet metal to make the body?


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## Todd Choti (Nov 17, 2014)

I got the steel from an old shelf bracket, it's around 1/8th thick. Bent in vise, cut with air grinder, shaped with bench grinder, drilled big hole to fit over lip in frame, found a 12m x 1.75 and a 10m x 1.0 nut, then tack welded nuts to bracket.


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

Todd Choti said:


> I got the steel from an old shelf bracket, it's around 1/8th thick. Bent in vise, cut with air grinder, shaped with bench grinder, drilled big hole to fit over lip in frame, found a 12m x 1.75 and a 10m x 1.0 nut, then tack welded nuts to bracket.


Todd -- that looks really nice. However, be careful. The whole purpose of an aluminum derailleur hanger is to act as a mechanical fuse. It is designed to break well before your aluminum frame gets damaged from a jammed object. Since this hanger is steel, you have just made it stronger than the frame. As a result, the frame may suffer damage if an object gets caught in the hanger.

If your intention is to just get out of the woods with it, then it will probably work fine in an emergency. You should be aware, though, that there is a risk of frame damage if you encounter another object that jams in your hanger.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Since these attach directly to the axle, I expect frame damage a highly unlikely outcome. It will lunch your rear mech, but at least you know you can buy those anywhere. 

Can't tell in the pics if he duplicated the tab on the front side of the 12mm nut?

Anyone email or call these yahoos about these yet?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

todd choti said:


> ...
> View attachment 953080


nice!

-f


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

^^^ Funny, I couldn't capitalize in that post.

It was supposed to say "NICE!" more emphatically. :thumbsup:

-F


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

AllMountin' said:


> Since these attach directly to the axle, I expect frame damage a highly unlikely outcome. It will lunch your rear mech, but at least you know you can buy those anywhere.
> 
> Can't tell in the pics if he duplicated the tab on the front side of the 12mm nut?
> 
> Anyone email or call these yahoos about these yet?


Yep. Got this from WM a few weeks ago...

The email before yours was also concerning a Night Train hanger... interesting. Any chance you can send me a photo of the original hanger or the dropout?

Thank you,

Garrett Owens

Customer Service/Inside Sales/Tech
Wheels Manufacturing, Inc.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Yep. Got this from WM a few weeks ago...
> 
> The email before yours was also concerning a Night Train hanger... interesting. Any chance you can send me a photo of the original hanger or the dropout?
> 
> ...


When I contacted WM 3-4 weeks ago, I offered to send them one, as long as I could get 2 final production versions back. They told me they already had a sample of the original and didn't need me to send mine in to them.


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## Todd Choti (Nov 17, 2014)

AllMountin' said:


> Since these attach directly to the axle, I expect frame damage a highly unlikely outcome. It will lunch your rear mech, but at least you know you can buy those anywhere.
> 
> Can't tell in the pics if he duplicated the tab on the front side of the 12mm nut?
> 
> Anyone email or call these yahoos about these yet?


Thanks AM for the hanger mounting to the Axel post, I have just as great a chance of damaging my bike every time I ride it in New England, E.g. drops, rock gardens, super tech trail sections.

I did make the tab for the derailleur, but not the 12mm bit that attaches to frame, once the axle is snug it doesn't seem to move around under normal conditions.

It's also mild steel and will bend if whacked, but should bend back and stay quite easily. Just finished a 10mi single track and it worked perfectly.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Made one of my own today. Didn't bother making it pretty, as it's just temporary. That, and I'm a ham fisted melder of metal. I did mine a bit different. Picked up the two nuts from the auto parts house, and used a washer under the 12 millimeter. The 10 millimeter nut I welded into a piece of sheet, rather than on top of it, so that the derailleur stop would line up with it better. I forgot to check the inside diameter of the washer, though, so it doesn't quite fully seat on the frame. It works fine, but I can't hit first gear, so I'll touch that up tomorrow.



I took it out for a nice little ride in the snow. Just happy to be rolling again. Who knows when more will come back in stock.


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## Todd Choti (Nov 17, 2014)

Oh yea, good work, gotta keep these big dogs rolling 😎


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

radnur22 said:


> These have a better look and are cheaper. I think I will order a set and cobble them to the frame.


I got my $9 fenders and they mounted easily.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

radnur22 said:


> I got my $9 fenders and they mounted easily.
> 
> View attachment 953659


Where did you get those from and which ones did you order?


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Negotiator50 said:


> Where did you get those from and which ones did you order?


Ebay...click on the link.


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## 2BrownDogs (Dec 15, 2014)

Do you also have a link for the clamp/bracket that you affixed to the seatpost to hold the rear fender?
tia


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## bobdurden (Apr 24, 2013)

Sorry, guys. I know this has probably been beat to death by now but I was hoping to run out over my lunch break to get the supplies needed for a tubeless conversion on my Sturgis. Does split tube seem to be the best choice with the stock rim/snowshoe setup?

24in or 26in Qtubes?
Are we still running foam?
3oz of goop?
I'm ditching the rim strips. Anything more suitable than black Duct Tape?

Am i missing anything? I know i'm being lazy here but i have a big ride coming up tomorrow and I want to get this setup done and tested before going out.

THanks!


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## H.Seaward (Dec 18, 2010)

bobdurden said:


> Sorry, guys. I know this has probably been beat to death by now but I was hoping to run out over my lunch break to get the supplies needed for a tubeless conversion on my Sturgis. Does split tube seem to be the best choice with the stock rim/snowshoe setup?
> 
> 24in or 26in Qtubes?
> Are we still running foam?
> ...


+1.


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## Todd Choti (Nov 17, 2014)

Got a pinch flat on the first mile that I rode the bike, went to the store got the foam and the tubes, forgot to get more duct tape, so I had to use some gold stuff my kid had. Ripped out plastic rim strips and just used couple of layers of tape upside down. Wasn't sure about the gold bling, but looks ok with the bars and frame color.









I followed a guide on riding against the grain, search fat bike ghetto tubeless. I did drill my rims for schrader valve, and used standard 24" tubes from big box store's. I use a zip tie around the valve up against the rim, just like the valve nut on presta valve. You should have no issue with the valve pushing into rim when filling, if you are not to forceful. This setup worked so well that I was able to air up both rims with no sealant at all, and they held pressure for hours, then just added sealant thru valve core.


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

2BrownDogs said:


> Do you also have a link for the clamp/bracket that you affixed to the seatpost to hold the rear fender?
> tia


I cobbled it together from a bracket off of a tail-light that broke.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Just bent the replacement hanger I received from BD falling in the snow on a rather small fall. Its my second bent hanger. These are really a joke and BD not acknowledging that these hangers are a problem is irking me. Prior to these hangers, I have bent only one other hanger in my 10 years of mountain bike riding and that one occurred on a devastating crash at high speed. Everything else on this bike has performed well and it's been a blast to ride. One of these other companies needs to quickly make a replacement hanger so we dont have to deal with these cheap BD hangers and I can go back to enjoying riding the bike.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Negotiator50 said:


> Just bent the replacement hanger I received from BD falling in the snow on a rather small fall. Its my second bent hanger. These are really a joke and BD not acknowledging that these hangers are a problem is irking me. Prior to these hangers, I have bent only one other hanger in my 10 years of mountain bike riding and that one occurred on a devastating crash at high speed. Everything else on this bike has performed well and it's been a blast to ride. One of these other companies needs to quickly make a replacement hanger so we dont have to deal with these cheap BD hangers and I can go back to enjoying riding the bike.


Are these things bending, or breaking?
I think the 190 rear end really hangs the drlr out there. It's bound to take a hit. Can you just bend it back?

-F


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

I have also gone through 2 of these hangers...one during shipment and the other within 2 weeks of riding the bike. Both I tried bending back and as soon as it was bent back near to where it belonged both cracked easily. The metal is very soft and will crack under very little pressure. I know this is supposed to be the primary function of a hanger to protect the frame and dérailleur but come on....these things are super cheap. Also my ONLY complaint thus far with the craftsmanship of this bike is the hanger. If you're going to lay the bike down TRY to do it on the non drive-side. Good luck!


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Fleas said:


> Are these things bending, or breaking?
> I think the 190 rear end really hangs the drlr out there. It's bound to take a hit. Can you just bend it back?
> 
> -F


They are bending. The first time it happened, I took the bike to my LBS and they bent it back. The next time out on the trail, the bike fell over when I laid it against a tree and the hanger bent again. I tried to bend it back and it snapped. The replacement hanger also bent when I slipped on some ice and fell slightly over this morning actually. I bent it back with my bare hands. I expect it to snap the next time i fall. These are most definitely soft metal and very cheaply made.

It hurts me to say this because I love the bike, but I would hold off on buying one until either they spec a better hanger or another company makes a stronger replacement.


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## 2BrownDogs (Dec 15, 2014)

*Derailleur protector*

You guys now have me thinking that a little bit of cheap protection may be benifical in this instance. So I have ordered one of these derailleur protectors:
I know these protectors could bend and its likely that they would absorb some impact so as to not overly damage the derailleur bracket itself.
Your thoughts?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

2BrownDogs said:


> You guys now have me thinking that a little bit of cheap protection may be benifical in this instance. So I have ordered one of these derailleur protectors:
> I know these protectors could bend and its likely that they would absorb some impact so as to not overly damage the derailleur bracket itself.
> Your thoughts?


Interesting. Only issue is that I don't know if that will fit. It looks like that fits on the axle. I'm not sure it will fit with a 12mm thru axle.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Probably designed around a 10mm qr axle, but they don't specify the diameter. Has anyone tried their local machine shop, yet? It really shouldn't cost that much, and it beats the heck out of down time. My cobbled from scratch version works great, and a shop should be able to knock something out pretty quick. The one complicated bit might be the tiny threaded bit that retains it when the axle is out. It isn't an absolutely necessary part. It does add a few seconds to wheel installation.

An enterprising person could probably price out making a batch of these and reselling via eBay store. For me? I'm gonna fab up a second hanger and wash my hands of this entire cluster **** clown show.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

AllMountin' said:


> Probably designed around a 10mm qr axle, but they don't specify the diameter. Has anyone tried their local machine shop, yet? It really shouldn't cost that much, and it beats the heck out of down time. My cobbled from scratch version works great, and a shop should be able to knock something out pretty quick. The one complicated bit might be the tiny threaded bit that retains it when the axle is out. It isn't an absolutely necessary part. It does add a few seconds to wheel installation.
> 
> An enterprising person could probably price out making a batch of these and reselling via eBay store. For me? I'm gonna fab up a second hanger and wash my hands of this entire cluster **** clown show.


Can you take some pics of what u cobbled together or plan on putting together?


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## 2BrownDogs (Dec 15, 2014)

Eh, I went ahead and ordered one off the Bay for $5 and if the axle size isnt correct I'll take a drill to it or a round file. This piece doesnt need to be accurate.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Negotiator50 said:


> Can you take some pics of what u cobbled together or plan on putting together?





















The old one has more material on the lower part. New one is ground down more. They were made quite differently, and would need a bit of b tension adjustment between them, as the stops are not positioned the same. I messed up and got a tiny bit of weld penetration on the lower threads, so I'll have to chase it with a tap.

I might still make another one, just for fun.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Any idea if we can use a straight hanger as a replacement and just tighten the b-tension. I believe the weak point of the hanger is the curve in it. A straight one would be much better in my opinion.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

I took mine into work and it seemed like a pain to make with the bend and all. I don't do a lot of threads either, anyone know what the three threaded sizes are? On. Side note I think the stock Snowshoe tires suck in the snow. Good on the dry trail but not on snow covered single track.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Straight would be easier to make, too, but I'm pretty sure it won't work. As far as I can tell, there is a very small window where the attachment needs to be- just outside of the tenth cog- or it won't reach first gear. As in I don't think the mech will physically extend that far.

The bigger nuts are M12 x 1.75 and M10 x 1.0

No clue on the tiny one.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

AllMountin' said:


> Straight would be easier to make, too, but I'm pretty sure it won't work. As far as I can tell, there is a very small window where the attachment needs to be- just outside of the tenth cog- or it won't reach first gear. As in I don't think the mech will physically extend that far.
> 
> The bigger nuts are M12 x 1.75 and M10 x 1.0
> 
> No clue on the tiny one.


Makes sense about the curve. How about a two piece hanger where both pieces are straight but are connected together by a bolt (one would lay on top of the other). That will allow the derailleur to sit about where it does with the stock hanger and provide the strength needed not to easily bend?


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Thanks for the thread sizes. Any idea if they improved the hangar yet, I saw that the frame/fork Sturgis has a chainstsy protector that mine doesn't do I was wondering if maybe these will also ship with different Drail hangars.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

siv said:


> Thanks for the thread sizes. Any idea if they improved the hangar yet, I saw that the frame/fork Sturgis has a chainstsy protector that mine doesn't do I was wondering if maybe these will also ship with different Drail hangars.


Not that I know of. I bought a replacement hanger and that was just as weak as the stock one. This is a major flaw for a bike. The last thing anyone wants is for a bike to be left unrideable miles away from their car in freezing cold weather.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

BD just posted on their FB page that they have requested a "stronger" hanger from the manufacturer. Not admitting fault, but stating customers have provided feedback that the current hanger favours protection more than strength. And customers want more strength. So the new batch of hangers will be "stronger". They don't cite by how much.

More hangers are coming via Air and expected to arrive in their warehouses by February 1st. For those with broken hangers, that means another 3-4 weeks without riding!

These are their actions:
1.) Include a 2nd hanger in the box for new bikes
2.) Special promotional discount for these updated/stronger hangers for existing customers

I have posted on the FB page that they need to go one further and send a free replacement to anyone who previously ordered a replacement hanger already.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

neons97 said:


> BD just posted on their FB page that they have requested a "stronger" hanger from the manufacturer. Not admitting fault, but stating customers have provided feedback that the current hanger favours protection more than strength. And customers want more strength. So the new batch of hangers will be "stronger". They don't cite by how much.
> 
> More hangers are coming via Air and expected to arrive in their warehouses by February 1st. For those with broken hangers, that means another 3-4 weeks without riding!
> 
> ...


BRAVO!!! What a class act move. I'm really impressed with their service to go above and beyond to remedy this - not only providing extras but also working to get owners (and future owners) stronger parts. :thumbsup:


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Higgins17 said:


> BRAVO!!! What a class act move. I'm really impressed with their service to go above and beyond to remedy this - not only providing extras but also working to get owners (and future owners) stronger parts. :thumbsup:


I am not sure about a class move, but definitely a move in the right direction. Unfortunately, looks like I have to spend a little more after buying two replacements (one of which already failed). However, if this updated hanger is significantly stronger than I am more than happy to buy it.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Read their FB post to get more details...however, I would not hold out hope that these new hangers will be "significantly stronger". Hopefully they are actually stronger, but by how much, we won't know. And BD isn't doing any of the development. They have just "asked the manufacturer to make them a bit stronger".

The reason I question the improvement is that the original design is die cast aluminum. They are not going to change the part dimensionally, and I doubt they are going to change the manufacturing process (i.e. billet?), so all I can think is that they may adjust the alloy?


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

It's tricky. You have to make the hanger strong but yet weak enough to fail before any damage is done to the frame. I've had to design fusible links for aircraft landing gear years ago. My take away memory is that any slight variation in tolerances really makes the difference between too weak and too strong. If too strong, the item you are supposed to protect gets damaged. 
Perhaps better dimensional quality controls on the current design might do the trick.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Allamuchy Joe said:


> It's tricky. You have to make the hanger strong but yet weak enough to fail before any damage is done to the frame. I've had to design fusible links for aircraft landing gear years ago. My take away memory is that any slight variation in tolerances really makes the difference between too weak and too strong. If too strong, the item you are supposed to protect gets damaged.
> Perhaps better dimensional quality controls on the current design might do the trick.


Not to take anything away from your experience, but on this frame, since the hanger is mounted to the axle, the frame has very little chance of sustaining damage. It's the beauty of the thru axle. There is so little chance of damaging the frame, they should make the hanger very tough and just let the drlr self-destruct.

-F


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Hangers are cheaper than derailleurs no?


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

Fleas said:


> Not to take anything away from your experience, but on this frame, since the hanger is mounted to the axle, the frame has very little chance of sustaining damage. It's the beauty of the thru axle. There is so little chance of damaging the frame, they should make the hanger very tough and just let the drlr self-destruct.
> 
> -F


It still comes down to cost. Hangers are $21 each while derailleurs (XT or X9 level, anyway) are about $100. Or, one could go with a cheaper derailleur (SLX, X7 level) and bring that number down to about $70 each.

Like most things, it is a trade. They will probably use a different alloy or just slightly increase the fuse dimension (if they have the envelope to do that).


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

I have had it with this bike. I just bent my third derailleur hanger falling harmlessly in the snow. This time the bent derailleur forced my chain behind the cassette and between the wheel and the cassette. As a result, one of my wheel spokes broke. So I was stuck 2 miles from my car in 10 degree weather with a snapped derailleur hanger and a broken spoke. Luckily I had a quick link so after finally getting the chain out from behind the cassette (which was stuck), I was able to take the chain out of the useless derailleur and back on one rear cog. This allowed me to ride it back to the car as a single speed right before darkness fell on me. 

It definitely wasn't a fun experience and I strongly recommend buyers stay away from this bike until this issue is corrected. In fact, my riding buddy has already canceled his order that was to ship in February because of the issues with this hanger. For me, I now need to get the spoke fixed, buy a new chain and purchase another (my third) hanger from BD. I am extremely upset about this hanger issue that has now caused me a few hundred dollars in repairs.


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

Really sorry for the stupid question. But, I'm the new guy. What's a hanger?


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)




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## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

I'll add 2 cents here...

My NTB came with a bent derailleur hanger. So I removed the derailleur and used the derailleur hanger tool to straighten out the hanger with relative success. It was a real headache to remove the derailleur (to attach the hanger tool), much much more of a headache than any other derailleur I ever worked with. I eventually figured out that the chain tensioner adjustment on the derailleur was absolutely seriously ridiculously too tight to re-install it back onto the hanger. So I backed it off significantly, then had success reinstalling the derailleur to the hanger. Then I tensioned the chain tensioner on the derailleur (against the hanger) to back to this absolutely seriously ridiculously too tight setting, assuming that was the way it was supposed to be. 

A ride later, the derailleur hanger mysteriously bent again and I just barely limped out of the forest. 

Once again, I removed the derailleur from the hanger, and put the derailleur hanger tool on it to adjust. (Now armed with the knowledge that the chain tensioner should be loosened first). Of course, this time, the shitty hanger started to crack. Fortunately I had the foresight to buy a spare, and swapped it out. 

When I put the new one on, this time, I did not torque the chain tensioner setting to the original absolutely seriously ridiculously too tight setting. I backed it off a lot.

I've ridden probably 6 rides since without an issue.

Methinks the person doing the adjustment at the factory is setting the chain tensioner entirely too tightly, and in conjunction with the known weakness of the hangers itself, is the perfect storm for catastrophic failure.


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

*There must be an alternative supplier?*



Negotiator50 said:


> I have had it with this bike. I just bent my third derailleur hanger falling harmlessly in the snow. This time the bent derailleur forced my chain behind the cassette and between the wheel and the cassette. As a result, one of my wheel spokes broke. So I was stuck 2 miles from my car in 10 degree weather with a snapped derailleur hanger and a broken spoke. Luckily I had a quick link so after finally getting the chain out from behind the cassette (which was stuck), I was able to take the chain out of the useless derailleur and back on one rear cog. This allowed me to ride it back to the car as a single speed right before darkness fell on me.
> 
> It definitely wasn't a fun experience and I strongly recommend buyers stay away from this bike until this issue is corrected. In fact, my riding buddy has already canceled his order that was to ship in February because of the issues with this hanger. For me, I now need to get the spoke fixed, buy a new chain and purchase another (my third) hanger from BD. I am extremely upset about this hanger issue that has now caused me a few hundred dollars in repairs.


I'm going to do some searching to see if I can find an alternative to #28


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

EddieZ said:


> I'll add 2 cents here...
> 
> My NTB came with a bent derailleur hanger. So I removed it and used the derailleur hanger tool to straighten it out with relative success. It was a real headache to remove the derailleur, much much more of a headache than any other derailleur I ever worked with. I eventually figured out that the chain tensioner adjustment was absolutely seriously ridiculously too tight to re-install the hanger. So I backed it off, then reinstalled the hanger. Then I tensioned the hanger to back to this absolutely seriously ridiculously too tight setting, assuming that was the way it was supposed to be.
> 
> ...


Mine all bent on minor falls or laying the bike down on the drive side. While what you are saying may have an impact, I am convinced they are just very very cheaply made.


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

They have white sturgis bullets in stock. Should I wait for the night train with bluto or just get the sturgis? Opinions? 


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## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

Negotiator50 said:


> Mine all bent on minor falls or laying the bike down on the drive side. While what you are saying may have an impact, I am convinced they are just very very cheaply made.


Just picking nits: My initial post was so poorly worded, that I edited it to try to make it clearer. But you quoted Revision A while I was working on Revision B. LOL.

Anyway, agreed. Cheaply made hangers. Take as much stress off of them as you can. Back off the chain tensioner.


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## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

Bugout Bikes said:


> They have white sturgis bullets in stock. Should I wait for the night train with bluto or just get the sturgis? Opinions?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Although I can't speak to the differences in specs or frame geometry, I would place high points on the bike that is available NOW. You can be riding a week from now.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

Bugout Bikes said:


> They have white sturgis bullets in stock. Should I wait for the night train with bluto or just get the sturgis? Opinions?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I will give you my assessment of my Sturgis Bullet. The x7 deraillures and x5 shifters work very well. That is comparing them to my other bike which has x9/x7 components. The Tektro brakes work great, I have ab****ely no regrets not getting the NT Bullet with Sram Guide brakes.

If I were you I would order the Sturgis and start riding. Believe me, you won't regret it.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

EddieZ said:


> Although I can't speak to the differences in specs or frame geometry, I would place high points on the bike that is available NOW. You can be riding a week from now.


With these bad hangers, you will only be riding for a few weeks, then shelve the bike until they get more hangers in.

I own a NT and bent a hanger with the bike falling over leaning on a tree. I would NOT RECOMMEND anyone buy a Sturgis or Night Train until BD fixes this issue, and fixes the issue on all existing frames already in customer hands.

If you all keep buying this bike as-is, they will continue to supply the cheap (or slightly revised) hanger and not come up with a real solution. I think they will only wake up to come up with a truly well designed and strong hanger if sales dry up and they are left relying on selling replacement hangers and not bikes (until someone like Wheels Manufacturing come up with one and steal all their sales away on even their own hanger).


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

neons97 said:


> With these bad hangers, you will only be riding for a few weeks, then shelve the bike until they get more hangers in.
> 
> I own a NT and bent a hanger with the bike falling over leaning on a tree. I would NOT RECOMMEND anyone buy a Sturgis or Night Train until BD fixes this issue, and fixes the issue on all existing frames already in customer hands.
> 
> If you all keep buying this bike as-is, they will continue to supply the cheap (or slightly revised) hanger and not come up with a real solution. I think they will only wake up to come up with a truly well designed and strong hanger if sales dry up and they are left relying on selling replacement hangers and not bikes (until someone like Wheels Manufacturing come up with one and steal all their sales away on even their own hanger).


As much as it pains me to say this because I really wanted to like this bike, but I would have to agree with this statement. If you want to ride immediately, wait for the fix because these bikes will be sitting in your garage or the LBS waiting to be fixed after your first or second rides. I bought TWO replacement hangers and ALL three hangers (including the original) are now bent. I am left with a bike that I cannot do anything with during the season that I bought it for.

Oh yeah, I also need to buy a new chain, another hanger and another quick link in addition to fixing two broken spokes that were damaged when the hanger failed this last final time. What a joke.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

So are the hangers breaking without impact? My NTB is on order and I've never had hanger issues on my other bikes. I get the whole disappointment about the integrity of the part, but am I going to have issues if there is no impact to the derailleur?


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

I am still riding with the original hanger. I did order a spare early on but have not had to use it. I wonder why some are breaking while others are not.


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

I feel for you guys that have bought replacements. 
I think the time has come to call this what it is - a defective part. It's obviously defective in design / materials if it's damaged by the bike being put in it's box (as mine was).
Kinesis / Motobecane / BD needs to own this problem sooner rather than later and provide warranty (i.e. free) replacements that actually work to everyone that's bought this bike. 

Their recent FB post says "Current Sturgis and Night Train owners can expect a promotional deal on a pair of these hangers when they land" doesn't cut it for me.
Also, I thought their attempted humor in the post came off as condescending and more than a little flip considering the frustration people are feeling over this issue. 
They also lifted Twright205's pics straight from the "Sturgis Rear Derailleur…Weird" thread. I guess at least we know they are reading these forums.

Do the right thing BD!!


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I have a few hundred miles on my Sturgis Bullet and have not bent/broken the hanger yet. I did adjust the chain tension when I went through the bike prior to my first ride (OK, I rode it around the office a bit the first day it came).

Granted, I have been riding 20+ years and have only bent one hanger in all that time due to a big stick that jumped into the chain out of nowhere...


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

I broke my rear derailleur hanger on a pretty nasty fall. The original was bent in shipping and I had a replacement hanger sent (no charge) by BD so I was up and rolling in no time.

Before it snapped I had bent and bent back the hanger a handful of times (once on a rock on the trail and at least once falling on the drivetrain side) so it was due :eekster:.

I agree with the point earlier in this thread about the width of the rear end needs some getting used to and hangs the derailleur out a lot more than non-fat bikes. I had to adjust my lines a bit to not knock the derailleur. Pretty easy now. A rear derailleur "bash guard" for fat bikes would be a brilliant idea.

I did buy a couple more hangers for insurance and will buy a couple more of the "revised" edition when those are available. 

I enjoy my NTB so much that I wouldn't let this issue dissuade anyone from getting one. I would buy a couple of spare hangers (and IIRC BD is including a spare with new bikes shipping out) and roll with it.


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## GaryBee (Jul 5, 2007)

I have about 30 rides on mine with a few crashes and have not broken or bent the hanger yet. Hopefully those waiting on new hangers will get them soon.


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

I've been searching for alternative hangers and contacted dérailleurhanger.com

They gave this response so I've asked if they will be developing anything:

We don't have an alternate aftermarket supplier for this hanger version currently.

Unfortunately we do not have this hanger in our inventory. We also checked our normal suppliers and were not able to come up with a match.

We apologize that we could not help you this time!

Thanks!

derailleurhanger.com
DerailleurHanger.com
Email: [email protected]



GT_guy said:


> I feel for you guys that have bought replacements.
> I think the time has come to call this what it is - a defective part. It's obviously defective in design / materials if it's damaged by the bike being put in it's box (as mine was).
> Kinesis / Motobecane / BD needs to own this problem sooner rather than later and provide warranty (i.e. free) replacements that actually work to everyone that's bought this bike.
> 
> ...


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

clark4131 said:


> 19" Night Train, just delivered and built by yours truly...
> 
> View attachment 942532
> View attachment 942533
> ...


Hey there what's the BB to saddle height along the seat post as pictured here? Thx


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

I have a Sturgis Bullet since early November, have taken maybe a handful of falls, no issues yet. I was going to switch out the brakes, seat,post,bars, etc... but so far riding it stock, except for change in tubes.. I did get a replacement hanger just in case.... the bike is fantastic, I'd buy another one in a minute. 

I am not that familiar with the clutch style setting on the derailer, I know someone remarked that theirs was excessively tight?

I am sorry some folks on here are having such an issue with the derailer, I am sure it's frustrating... hope those hangers arrive soon....


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Has anyone installed the Grip Studs into the stock VEE Rubber Snowshoe tires that comes on the NTB? If so, do you have pictures or info about it? 

Or are the stock Snowshoe tires not good with studs and should I immediately switch to a Dillinger 5 with studs?


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## woodsskier (Nov 28, 2012)

I've been running studded D5's for about a month now. The self steer and rolling resistance have gone way down compared to the snowshoe's and the studs give you peace of mind over ice sheets and patches. I'll use up the snowshoes in the rear when the weather gets warm.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

I put in about 40 to 50ish grip studs into my snowshoes on my sturgis last week, I have been out twice, seems to be doing well. still running tubes. i have put around 15 miles on them since studding them up...


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Interesting, not sure that would help me on snow covered rocky trails. Not liking the stock Snowshoes for anything other than dry conditions. About to break down for Bud and Lou but don't really wanna add weight back on the bike. Wish the Schwalbe Jumbo Jim would come out sooner.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I have several hundred miles on my FB4 Comp, and I absolutely love the bike.

I plan to upgrade to the Rock-Shock Night Train Bullet and sell my FB4, but I am concerned about the availability of the NT. The Sturgis is available in a couple of colors and the appropriate size, but I would like to upgrade the brakes.

I went to look at what it would cost to upgrade the brakes, but I have instead several questions.

I am uncertain about the brake mounts for these bikes. Are they IS or Post? 

Is there an upper limit on the size of rotors these bikes will handle? 

Would 200 front and 180 rear be a good upgrade?

Again, total novice here. Any and all help would be appreciated.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

i have floaters on my Pug, and I am very happy with those, I've tried the sturgis and pug on the same day to get a feel for the differences of the tire,, but that was when the snow was only 3 or so inches. so no packed base,,,, although I have had the snowshoes out on the trails for the last several weeks. I don't find them much of an issue... but that's just my experience.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

WhiskeyJr said:


> I have several hundred miles on my FB4 Comp, and I absolutely love the bike.
> 
> I plan to upgrade to the Rock-Shock Night Train Bullet and sell my FB4, but I am concerned about the availability of the NT. The Sturgis is available in a couple of colors and the appropriate size, but I would like to upgrade the brakes.
> 
> ...


The brakes on the Sturgis are nice - I was going to upgrade mine with a set of SLX brakes I have but have not yet seen a need after a couple hundred miles. They feel very close to my Deore brakes (that feel just like my XT and SLX brakes on my other bikes). The bike comes stock with 180 front and rear - the RS Bluto will handle 200 up front, not sure about the stock Sturgis fork as I don't have one. The rear on the Sturgis is IS mount.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> The brakes on the Sturgis are nice - I was going to upgrade mine with a set of SLX brakes I have but have not yet seen a need after a couple hundred miles. They feel very close to my Deore brakes (that feel just like my XT and SLX brakes on my other bikes). The bike comes stock with 180 front and rear - the RS Bluto will handle 200 up front, not sure about the stock Sturgis fork as I don't have one. The rear on the Sturgis is IS mount.


So the rear of the bike has brake boss holes at a 90 degree angle to the front to back axis of the bike, or perpindicular to the wheel spokes, right?

And the Bluto has a post mount, which has bolt holes parallel to the front to rear axis of the bike, or parallel to the wheel spokes?


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Found some pictures, to ask the question again. I haven't built brakes on a bicycle since 1990, so completely out of my element here.

These on the shock look like post mounts, since there are no visible holes on the sides of the mount.









But the rear of the Sturgis looks again like posts from this picture. Do I have this confused?

Again, thanks for your help.


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

I was able to put my formula brakes on the Sturgis Bullet and only needed the front 180 adaptor, see pics.

I have a 180 front and 160 rear and I would consider a 200/180 setup next time I need new rotors (or perhaps 180/180). Almost all of our trails are all climbing and then all descending; I can get the rear hot and a little soft and less grabby after a long descent (I ride fast and aggressive). My only concern with a bigger front is how much the bluto will like all that flex.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Well I ordered up my 21-inch Bullet/Bluto frameset in metal flake green. It is set to ship on 1/23. I am curious to see if my frameset comes with an "improved" hanger, we shall see but either way I would much rather have a WM, Pilo, or North Shore Billet hanger on there where I know the quality. I might even try to make one on a CNC or mill. My goal is to get it built up before the winter is gone- Shimano drivetrain, tubeless Bikes Direct wheels, formula or Avid prft brakes, and some surly and Bontrager goodies.


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

*Hanger Update*

Latest feedback after chasing dérailleurhanger.com for an alternative:

We can talk with our supplier about it, but the overall market for fat bikes is relatively small, so the expense of making a replication of this hanger might not be offset by the potential number of sales.
It's a numbers game, how long until the ROI kicks in. It's a lot of hanger sales to offset the $5,000 in engineering and machine time&#8230;
I doubt if they did want to add this version to the catalogue it would happen before mid-summer.
Sorry for the less than positive news, but do want to provide a realistic answer. I'm not into "over promising and under delivering".
Feel free to ping us back in a couple months. We have had more than a handful of requests for this hanger, so that makes it interesting to consider.

Please let us know if you require any additional information or assistance.
Thanks!

derailleurhanger.com
[email protected]
DerailleurHanger.com


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

bennybullfrog said:


> Latest feedback after chasing dérailleurhanger.com for an alternative:
> 
> We can talk with our supplier about it, but the overall market for fat bikes is relatively small, so the expense of making a replication of this hanger might not be offset by the potential number of sales.
> It's a numbers game, how long until the ROI kicks in. It's a lot of hanger sales to offset the $5,000 in engineering and machine time&#8230;
> ...


I should work for those guys. I already have a design roughed out without seeing any dimensions or actual parts, as well as a CNC mfg. process. As soon as my bike arrives in a few weeks, I will have dimensions, bar stock, taps, and manually finished parts for testing. ...and it will take me about a 1/2 hour after work for 4 days to work it all out. They won't be pretty, but they will work.
I also think they could be made out of molded plastic or CF with metal inserts. Eventually I think there will be a standard. ...or at least a few basic designs for all frames. Right now, it's retarded how everyone has a different hanger even though they have the same axles, suspensions, etc. The dropouts don't even have to be the same - just the hanger mount.

-F


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Final weight 28.8 pounds including cages and pedals.


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## Bugout Bikes (Jan 8, 2015)

Tfinator, is that a nighttrain or sturgis?


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

tfinator said:


> Final weight 28.8 pounds including cages and pedals.


Ride report with the nexties!?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Night train. The nextie rims were great. It felt way more lively and there was far less self steer. It was 35 miles or so, but a lot of non technical so I'll have to do some more.
Full changes are carbon bar and seat post, saddle, race face crank (perfect chain line), oneup 30t ring with the 42t GC, nextie rims with chosen hubs.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

tfinator said:


> Night train. The nextie rims were great. It felt way more lively and there was far less self steer. It was 35 miles or so, but a lot of non technical so I'll have to do some more.
> Full changes are carbon bar and seat post, saddle, race face crank (perfect chain line), oneup 30t ring with the 42t GC, nextie rims with chosen hubs.


Are those the chosen hubs off of eBay or that are also sold on eBay? How do you like those? Also, are those 65mm nexties? Thinking about going the same route 65mm nextie rims with chosen hubs for summer.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

tfinator said:


> Night train. The nextie rims were great. It felt way more lively and there was far less self steer. It was 35 miles or so, but a lot of non technical so I'll have to do some more.
> Full changes are carbon bar and seat post, saddle, race face crank (perfect chain line), oneup 30t ring with the 42t GC, nextie rims with chosen hubs.


Tfinator: Very nice build and it confirms lots of research I've done - (waiting on mine here which sort of makes real world testing difficult).

Quick question: are you tubed or tubeless on those nexties at that 28.8 lbs? I've been eyeing the 80mm set myself for snowy/soft territory.

Are you enjoying the dirt riding vs. non-fat? Bluto performance good enough and weight low enough (with your mods) to make that a primary bike? I'd guess at sub 30 lbs rolling resistance remains a key difference but perhaps people are finding the contact patch offsets the rolling resistance loss.

All in all, nice work!!

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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Higgins17 said:


> Tfinator: Very nice build and it confirms lots of research I've done - (waiting on mine here which sort of makes real world testing difficult).
> 
> Quick question: are you tubed or tubeless on those nexties at that 28.8 lbs? I've been eyeing the 80mm set myself for snowy/soft territory.
> 
> ...


They are tubeless- I'm in San Diego so flat protection is my main concern. 
I wouldn't have it as a primary. For lone rides it's fun, and I'd like to get to the point where I can take it for casual group rides, but right now I can't. Reasons being:
1 I'm out of shape right now, so no matter which way you slice it when I'm doing 5k feet in 25 miles, I'm faster on my normal hard tail.
2 the tires are slow on hardpack. Fun? Yes. But I'll be switching to a 3.8" tire more suited to dirt when I wear them out.
3 the guys I ride with are super strong and fast and good technical riders. I just wouldn't be able to keep up right now.

Regardless, I did the whole build for about $2600, so I'm a happy camper


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Negotiator50 said:


> Are those the chosen hubs off of eBay or that are also sold on eBay? How do you like those? Also, are those 65mm nexties? Thinking about going the same route 65mm nextie rims with chosen hubs for summer.


Yeah. Chosen hubs off eBay.
Honestly the front hub seems like it's about .5mm too wide. It's just wide enough where I had the end cap fall off on my first few installs.
Other than that they're fine. I'm not very picky with hubs. What makes me nervous is unless you drop $400 on something really nice, it seems like every company is having 190mm hub failures. I'm a little under 150 pounds, so I hope this isn't an issue for me.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

tfinator said:


> Yeah. Chosen hubs off eBay.
> Honestly the front hub seems like it's about .5mm too wide. It's just wide enough where I had the end cap fall off on my first few installs.
> Other than that they're fine. I'm not very picky with hubs. What makes me nervous is unless you drop $400 on something really nice, it seems like every company is having 190mm hub failures. I'm a little under 150 pounds, so I hope this isn't an issue for me.


Did you lace them yourself or have someone else do it?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Negotiator50 said:


> Did you lace them yourself or have someone else do it?


Had my lbs do it.


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## H.Seaward (Dec 18, 2010)

tfinator said:


> Final weight 28.8 pounds including cages and pedals.


Are those 6 or 8oz water bottles?


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

tfinator said:


> Final weight 28.8 pounds including cages and pedals.


Did you need to keep the spacers on cranks? I feel the q factor is too wide


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## dubinjs (Nov 6, 2010)

I have a new Night Train Bullet. i have only had it out four times so far. Juts busted the rear Derailleur hanger too. Very cheaply made. Anyone else experiencing this issue?

Has anyone set up the stock Weidman Rims Tubless? I have seen a few strange Modifications to do it, but not certain the true success rate.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Tonggi said:


> Did you need to keep the spacers on cranks? I feel the q factor is too wide


Got face face ones. They're perfect. Info is a bit further back in the thread, probably four weeks or so.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

dubinjs said:


> I have a new Night Train Bullet. i have only had it out four times so far. Juts busted the rear Derailleur hanger too. Very cheaply made. Anyone else experiencing this issue?
> 
> Has anyone set up the stock Weidman Rims Tubless? I have seen a few strange Modifications to do it, but not certain the true success rate.


There's a thread dedicated to this, and more info in this one. They suck for tubeless, but it isn't physically impossible.


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

Tonggi said:


> Did you need to keep the spacers on cranks? I feel the q factor is too wide


Tonggi, you can upgrade to the race face turbine cinch 170mm crankset. They require fairly unique tools though so cost can add up. (BB30 wrench, ISIS BB tool)
I went with them on my sturgis bullet and love it over stock. I don't miss the wider q-factor at all. I have it set up 1x10.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

H.Seaward said:


> Are those 6 or 8oz water bottles?


Probably 12 or more? Does anyone even make a 6 ounce?!?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

bwilson said:


> Tonggi, you can upgrade to the race face turbine 170mm crankset. They require fairly unique tools though so cost can add up.
> I went with them on my sturgis bullet and love it over stock. I don't miss the wider q-factor at all. I have it set up 1x10.


What unique tools did you use? I used a threaded BB wrench- the standard one that works on all the out board threaded bbs and then a couple of hex wrenches.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

tfinator said:


> Got face face ones. They're perfect. Info is a bit further back in the thread, probably four weeks or so.





bwilson said:


> Tonggi, you can upgrade to the race face turbine 170mm crankset. They require fairly unique tools though so cost can add up.
> I went with them on my sturgis bullet and love it over stock. I don't miss the wider q-factor at all. I have it set up 1x10.


Thanks guys, I'll try to review back and see. I like the race face cinch. I was thinking of doing the sram xx1 cranks, similar price point. I just need to find out length of the spindle arms. The huge stock Q factor isn't comfortable for pedaling and I. A wide dude. I feel like I'm kicking outward and I always get knee pain in my left knee.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

tfinator said:


> What unique tools did you use? I used a threaded BB wrench- the standard one that works on all the out board threaded bbs and then a couple of hex wrenches.


Isn't the Sturgis/NT BB press fit? That would require a fairly expensive specialist tool unless you use a ghetto headset press. I have a headset press I made from threaded rod and some fittings found it the plumbing section of Home Depot. Only cost about $15 total and I have used it on several headsets. Never done a press fit BB before.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Destr0 said:


> Isn't the Sturgis/NT BB press fit? That would require a fairly expensive specialist tool unless you use a ghetto headset press. I have a headset press I made from threaded rod and some fittings found it the plumbing section of Home Depot. Only cost about $15 total and I have used it on several headsets. Never done a press fit BB before.


No, it's threaded.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

tfinator said:


> No, it's threaded.


Good to know. I pulled my cranks off but did not remove the BB.  I thought it was press fit because I thought all the other bikes with the Samox cranks were press fit.

I have a spare RF thread in BB...


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Question about Bikes Direct shipping, I received the UPS tracking info back in November when I ordered my NTB, but will I receive some type of email from BD when the bike ships? I was just wondering since the window is so wide, 30 Jan - 16 Feb.

Thanks.


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

tfinator said:


> What unique tools did you use? I used a threaded BB wrench- the standard one that works on all the out board threaded bbs and then a couple of hex wrenches.


I should have clarified, I was talking about the race face turbine CINCH which requires a BSA30 BB tool as opposed to the typical BB tool - most of the shops here don't have them for sale, just loan OR you can pay them to use it. And an ISIS bottom bracket tool to mount the chain ring to the crank arm if you don't already have one of those.


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

Destr0 said:


> Good to know. I pulled my cranks off but did not remove the BB.  I thought it was press fit because I thought all the other bikes with the Samox cranks were press fit.
> 
> I have a spare RF thread in BB...


Right, the stock NTB/Sturgis bottom bracket uses the standard external-bearing bottom bracket cups found on many bikes. If you don't use the center sleeve you can get away with using a standard mountain bike BB. The center sleeve is what makes the difference between the sizes 68/72mm (Typical MTB), 100mm (Like ours), 120mm (pugsley,etc).

I found the sleeve that comes with the turbine cinch drags on the crank a little, so I went without as I've heard others do. The risk is internal contamination and with our internally routed cable exits on the down tube near the bottom bracket it will be quite easy for water to find it's way in there. I put RTV on mine and will check it after a bit of use.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

bwilson said:


> I should have clarified, I was talking about the race face turbine CINCH which requires a BB30 BB tool as opposed to the typical BB tool - most of the shops here don't have them for sale, just loan OR you can pay them to use it. And an ISIS bottom bracket tool to mount the chain ring to the crank arm if you don't already have one of those.


Oh got it- I just have the standard kind of crank- didn't want to dig any deeper into my pockets!


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## Tin Turtle (Sep 6, 2012)

*Update on the bike*

I have not came back to this thread and posted since the build, but here are some pics. I did the glow in the dark diy rim strips somebody else did earlier in the thread. It came out very nice. Still no rack from Old Man Mountain, apparently they can't find a place for the rear axle they need. The Bar Mitts are awesome. Carbon handlebar really seemed to reduce the cold transfer. And the Hope front hub - best investment ever. No need for the spacers any more.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

*Fattie just gettin fatter*

Upgrade-itis continues. Swapped out the Snowshoe for some studded Snowshoe XLs. Also, did the duct tape/gorilla packing tape rim strip swap. Did a nice shiny silver tape.. I think it looks sweet.

Already upgraded:

- Carbon bar (Ibis Low Rise) and Lizard Skins Peaty grips.
- Thomson Elite seatpost
- WTB Pure V Race
- Azonic 420 flats (flats are definitely the ticket for fatties!)
- Ibera frame bag.

On the docket:

- Swap out ridiculous stock stem with Truvativ AKA 70mm/5 degree stem.
- 1x up front... reviewing options, but leaning towards the X9 and a direct mount 28T narrow/wide ring
- One up treatment on the rear... 42T

If the cash fairy decides to visit:

- Dropper post at some point... frame is a touch on the soprano side of stand over for me... plus I just miss having a dropper on it.
- Carbon rim/I9 hubs


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Looking good man! 

I'm on the fence about bluto. I also want to change color.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Are the Snowshoe XL any good? I'm not liking the stock Snowshoes in snow at all, lack if side knobs sucks.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Got an email from BD, saying the ship my frameset is on is anchored outside of the port in California due to a strike, and it is going to be delayed about a week before it gets unloaded and shipped.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Sooooooo, BD posted yesterday that they have 2, 19" metal flake red Sturgis Bullets, ready to ship right now. Now I wonder, is there anyone on here that has already paid BD for a 19" Sturgis Bullet in metal flake red, awaiting the Jan 30th-Feb 16th ship date? If so, wouldn't you think that they would just ship these 2, 19" bikes to the first people in que that ordered this exact bike, instead of selling them early to an additional customer, and then making people that already have sent money to BD months ago wait longer? Maybe I'm missing something, but if I wasn't waiting on a yellow one, and had pre-purchased a red one, my panties would be mega bunched right now.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

Tonggi said:


> Looking good man!
> 
> I'm on the fence about bluto. I also want to change color.


Get the Bluto! All these "you don't need suspension on a fatty" kooks are the same people who scoffed at the RS1. Get it and don't look back... because if you do, you'll see all the Suspension Deniers struggling behind you.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

siv said:


> Are the Snowshoe XL any good? I'm not liking the stock Snowshoes in snow at all, lack if side knobs sucks.


I have no problems with the Snowshoe 120tpi Silicas that came on mine. Great in dirt, super in wet/slick and while I only had one snow ride on them, I had no issues at all. Get the PSI right and they're sweet. Some self steer at speed on hard surfaces but many fat tires do that.

One ride on the XL studded so far and I'm loving the extra girth/float. It's noticeable! The studs did great with everything except off angle glare ice... not sure what exactly would work in that situation. Was riding today on 2-3 inches of super light fluffy over bulletproof glare ice from a rain/melt/hard freeze earlier this week. Like I could barely stand on some spots.. it was better to be on the bike than off. If I kept the RPMs down and used a bigger gear and didn't over torque the pedals, it climbed up stuff I couldn't walk up. Really gotta sink your ass onto the saddle though... need your body weight to shove the studs into the ice.

Net-net, I like my snowshoes... both pairs.

But that's just me. I hate some MTB tires others love (Nevegals... barf). It's like saddles.. there's butts for saddles and riders for tires.


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Shifty, what's the tread height on the Snowshoe XL? I'm riding on Bulldozers now and loving them, but have encountered some areas where a paddle-wheeler on the back might help. (And Surly tires are way expensive where I live...)


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

MaximumX said:


> Shifty, what's the tread height on the Snowshoe XL? I'm riding on Bulldozers now and loving them, but have encountered some areas where a paddle-wheeler on the back might help. (And Surly tires are way expensive where I live...)


Mine are about 1/4"- plus


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

tfinator said:


> Mine are about 1/4"- plus


1/4", so 6-ish mm... And the Lou I think is 7mm. Sounds like the XL might be worth looking into. Thanks!


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## sealamander (Jan 25, 2015)

watermonkey said:


> Sooooooo, BD posted yesterday that they have 2, 19" metal flake red Sturgis Bullets, ready to ship right now. Now I wonder, is there anyone on here that has already paid BD for a 19" Sturgis Bullet in metal flake red, awaiting the Jan 30th-Feb 16th ship date? If so, wouldn't you think that they would just ship these 2, 19" bikes to the first people in que that ordered this exact bike, instead of selling them early to an additional customer, and then making people that already have sent money to BD months ago wait longer? Maybe I'm missing something, but if I wasn't waiting on a yellow one, and had pre-purchased a red one, my panties would be mega bunched right now.


First off let me say hello all! This is my first time posting here, and having preorded a fatty from BD over a month ago I find this thread to be of great interest. I had initially ordered a Boris the Brut. Like many others I got the disappointing email saying the shipment has been delayed. Soooo....when BD posted the 2 red Sturgis Bullets available now I jumped on it and changed my order. The operator I spoke with was very helpful and assured me the Sturgis would ship this Monday. I had never thought of the scenario watermonkey brought up and I can understand how that would be annoying to someone who ordered months ago. I wonder what their plan is? Not to step on anyone's toes, but I really hope the bike is truly available and ships on Monday like I was told. It will be interesting to see how this goes.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Anyone know when the frame with bluto forks are shipping out? I can't find it anywhere on their facebook page but their site says shipping now.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Tonggi said:


> Anyone know when the frame with bluto forks are shipping out? I can't find it anywhere on their facebook page but their site says shipping now.


I preordered mine on 1/11 (21, metal flake green) and got an email saying it would ship 1/23 and I got a ups tracking number. I got tan email on 1/22 saying due to a port strike on the west coast, my frame was going to be delayed a week. So who knows when it will actually ship, I'm a little disappointed but as long as it shows up with a good deraileur hanger I'll be happy.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Luke000 said:


> I preordered mine on 1/11 (21, metal flake green) and got an email saying it would ship 1/23 and I got a ups tracking number. I got tan email on 1/22 saying due to a port strike on the west coast, my frame was going to be delayed a week. So who knows when it will actually ship, I'm a little disappointed but as long as it shows up with a good deraileur hanger I'll be happy.


hehe its alway's something huh. It was like that with the first batch of night trains and night train bullets. Im mad because I sold the frame of my fatty and its blizzarding today. I guess I can't stress it. THe snow will be on the trails for a long time if the weather stays down.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Luke000 said:


> I got tan email on 1/22 saying due to a port strike on the west coast


Confirmed it, My bro in law told me he is living this nightmare of the Port "strike", its not actually official but the workers are doing an organized slow down to show their worth. They are asking for more money, guaranteed overtime pay, etc. Surprisingly they make good money too. He was telling me something that would take 1 hour they take 7 hours to unload. So who knows when we may get our bikes.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

MaximumX said:


> 1/4", so 6-ish mm... And the Lou I think is 7mm. Sounds like the XL might be worth looking into. Thanks!


Snowshoe XL's aren't cheap though, I can find Bud and Lou for around $110 each.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

Maybe we should cross the picket line so they stop holding bikes and other stuff hostage... Here comes the internet fat bike gang swinging broken derailleur hangers from broken bicycle chains.


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

siv said:


> Snowshoe XL's aren't cheap though, I can find Bud and Lou for around $110 each.


Oh yeah? I haven't seen the Surly's that low, but have seen SSXL for about $100 shipped. Where are Bud/Lou at that price?


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

MaximumX said:


> Oh yeah? I haven't seen the Surly's that low, but have seen SSXL for about $100 shipped. Where are Bud/Lou at that price?


$130 at Jenson plus there's 15% coupon codes floating around. Do the Snowshoe XL come with studs for $100?


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

I see Snowshoe XL non-studded for $110 at Modern Bike. Weight compared to Bud/Lou about the same, do the SXL say tubeless ready? I guess that could be a deciding factor for some.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

siv said:


> $130 at Jenson plus there's 15% coupon codes floating around. Do the Snowshoe XL come with studs for $100?


I recalled trying that but not sure surly qualifies for this discount.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Tonggi said:


> I recalled trying that but not sure surly qualifies for this discount.


I didn't actually buy them but it did accept the discount down to $110, free shipping also. The coupons I found are 15% off a single item so you'd need to order the Bud and Lou seperate I guess. It's still a lot of money for tires, not sure if anything will give me what I'm looking for on snow covered rocky rooty PA singletrack.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

siv said:


> I didn't actually buy them but it did accept the discount down to $110, free shipping also. The coupons I found are 15% off a single item so you'd need to order the Bud and Lou seperate I guess. It's still a lot of money for tires, not sure if anything will give me what I'm looking for on snow covered rocky rooty PA singletrack.


I'll have to try that again. I have a bunch of those coupons. You know anyone who tried it on singletrack without snow? Worried of the rolling resistance and fast tire wear.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

siv said:


> $130 at Jenson plus there's 15% coupon codes floating around. Do the Snowshoe XL come with studs for $100?


I wish! The studded version goes for $190 retail.

I got the XL through Amazon (Niagra Cycle Works I think?) for $100 each. Then I bought studs and did em myself... extra $40 a tire.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Finally took this bike on some technical trails. Was a quick 15 miles with about 2500 feet of vertical. I was toast at the top of every climb, but on all the super rocky sections where I'd often get hung up on my hard tail I managed to bob and bounce over. In the end, got climbing times in the 70 percentile- so not bad. The down was awesome. Got fast times, but will get faster. I was often laughing because I always had the instinct to go around obstacles. With 650b 2.1" tires that's just what you do! But on the fatty I had to keep asking myself why I was bothering. 
That was Friday. Sunday I did 43 miles of non technical single and double track. Only about 3k feet climbing. Just another day, but realized I was running late and had to push it. The last seven miles was double and single track mixed with about 1k feet. Actually got my PR on it, which is ridiculous. I'm afraid with some 4" rubber this will turn into my full time bike. 
This is the NTB I posted a couple pages back. 1x10 with 65mm nextie rims.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Tonggi said:


> I'll have to try that again. I have a bunch of those coupons. You know anyone who tried it on singletrack without snow? Worried of the rolling resistance and fast tire wear.


Bud and Lou would be a winter tire only for me, the Snowshoes are fine for dry riding. I was hoping the Schwalbe Jumbo Jim would be out sooner, their 4.8 is going to be significantly lighter than other tires that size.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

New and improved Nighttrain/Sturgis Deraileur hangers are on sale! Get em while they are hot.

And... please respect other riders buy buying just one. At least for the first few weeks.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Bought one! Thanks for the heads up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I have a bud/lou on my Sturgis. I love them in the snow, I have not yet tried them on dry singletrack - I would expect them to be big fat and slow.  My Sturgis is a winter only bike, I am building a Bucksaw for the other three seasons.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

siv said:


> Bud and Lou would be a winter tire only for me, the Snowshoes are fine for dry riding. I was hoping the Schwalbe Jumbo Jim would be out sooner, their 4.8 is going to be significantly lighter than other tires that size.


My snow shoes look pretty beat up with just 104 miles on them.


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## Wyoming Shooter (May 15, 2014)

I have a Sturgis Bullet on order. It appears the seat bolt clamp tightens by way of a bolt. Is that correct? if so, can someone advise a lever replacement? Thanks very much.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

I use a Salsa Flip Lock 35.0mm, but any 34.9 clamp will do. I like the leverage and color selection on the Salsa.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Wyoming Shooter said:


> I have a Sturgis Bullet on order. It appears the seat bolt clamp tightens by way of a bolt. Is that correct? if so, can someone advise a lever replacement? Thanks very much.


I hate levers. I haven't found a lever that doesn't slide during a ride. However I'm a Clyde so that might be the issue.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

I consider the Salsa Flip-lock to be the equivalent of a Thompson seatpost or Chris King headset. It doesn't get better and there's no reason to look any further.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Shifty Bits said:


> New and improved Nighttrain/Sturgis Deraileur hangers are on sale! Get em while they are hot.
> 
> And... please respect other riders buy buying just one. At least for the first few weeks.


Does anyone know if the ones listed on the Bikesderect site showing the original #28 are in fact the #28S2(Version 2) they are referring to on the Bikesderect facebook page that are now available. Cant seem to find the one shown.Tried calling but they closed shop for the day.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Never mind they just updated the site to show the new version


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Negotiator50 said:


> I hate levers. I haven't found a lever that doesn't slide during a ride. However I'm a Clyde so that might be the issue.


I ordered one these nice Deity clamps and never looked back!

Deity Cinch Seatpost Clamp > Components > Saddles and Seatposts > Seatpost Collars | Jenson USA


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## Brett Williams (May 23, 2013)

*Diff between sturgis and night train*

Is there any difference between the Sturgis and Night Train frames?


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Yes. Color.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Hangers found on this page:
http://goo.gl/cyFCSy
Part number is 28s2.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

AllMountin' said:


> I use a Salsa Flip Lock 35.0mm, but any 34.9 clamp will do. I like the leverage and color selection on the Salsa.


Ditto, I recently put one of these on my Sturgis Bullet and I really like it.


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## Wyoming Shooter (May 15, 2014)

Gentlemen - Thanks for the tips on the Salsa Flip Lock. I stand convinced.


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## Wyoming Shooter (May 15, 2014)

FYI - I found the Salsa Flip Lock 35mm for $35 shipped here:

https://www.modernbike.com/salsa-flip-lock-seat-clamp-35mm-black


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Wyoming Shooter said:


> FYI - I found the Salsa Flip Lock 35mm for $35 shipped here:
> 
> https://www.modernbike.com/salsa-flip-lock-seat-clamp-35mm-black


Nice find.

Anyone who ordered the frameset with bluto get any updates? This sucks, lol I dont mind waiting but updates would help the anxiety


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

My frame ships out 2/12/14. Got email explaining delay so soon!


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Tonggi said:


> My frame ships out 2/12/14. Got email explaining delay so soon!


I still have yet to get that email besides the one a week ago Thursday saying it was going to be delayed one week....so by that logic it should ship out today.....but I doubt it will- back to waiting for a $700 frameset :sad:


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Luke000 said:


> I still have yet to get that email besides the one a week ago Thursday saying it was going to be delayed one week....so by that logic it should ship out today.....but I doubt it will- back to waiting for a $700 frameset :sad:


They posted something new on their Facebook page regarding the port slow downs. It was weird in the post saying they "may" divert the ship to Panama, so that means the boat with the frames are not even in LA yet. So who knows. My email somehow says it is planned to ship February 12nd so I won't be expecting a bike until then it seems (February 19th when it actually gets to me) Hopefully February and Early March has a LOT of Snow. lol

I sold my original Night Train Black Frame recently and it was the day before the damn blizzard. Now I had no bike but luckily my buddy who owns a bike shop let me borrow his Specialized Fat Boy since he isn't riding it.


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## jazzer2 (Aug 14, 2006)

Does anyone know what the external diameter of the seapost is on the Sturgis/Nightrain? I see that the seapost itself is 30.9 but I want to buy a seatpost quickrelease clamp and need to O.D. size.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

jazzer2 said:


> Does anyone know what the external diameter of the seapost is on the Sturgis/Nightrain? I see that the seapost itself is 30.9 but I want to buy a seatpost quickrelease clamp and need to O.D. size.


34.9 I beleive


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## woodsskier (Nov 28, 2012)

Has anyone upgraded to a carbon fork? After riding a fatboy recently it made the stock one feel like a slug.

Seems to be plenty out there to chose from, I'm just leery of whether a 135mm will fit the front hub ok without any spacers? I'd rather not go to a 150 again which seems like overkill. I assume a different crown race is needed to support a tapered steerer, anyone know of a name or part number for this?

I thought I remember reading somewhere BD might be offering a carbon upgrade at some point..


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

woodsskier said:


> Has anyone upgraded to a carbon fork? After riding a fatboy recently it made the stock one feel like a slug.
> 
> Seems to be plenty out there to chose from, I'm just leery of whether a 135mm will fit the front hub ok without any spacers? I'd rather not go to a 150 again which seems like overkill. I assume a different crown race is needed to support a tapered steerer, anyone know of a name or part number for this?
> 
> I thought I remember reading somewhere BD might be offering a carbon upgrade at some point..


I initially bought a surly ice cream truck fork to run in the winter instead of the Bluto. This worked well. I recently came across this:2015 Fatbike Carbon Fork 15 150mm Skewer D Brake Snow Bike Carbon Fork New Sale | eBay

which should work well with these frames. Only a new crown race and compression plug for the top cap are needed. It hasn't arrived yet but should soon.

A 135mm spaced fork will not work. Removing the spacers on the hub goes down to 142mm.


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## woodsskier (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks, Let us know how the new fork works out.
Think a salsa makwa might work without the spacers?

• Front Axle Type: 15mm Thru
• Front Axle Size: 15 x 171L, TP=1.5, TL=10
• Front Hub Spacing (mm): 142 mm

This is one of the heavier carbon ones out there, but this is an area I'd prefer to go heftier since I'll be using it year round.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

beachbum1 said:


> thanks for the reply. I haven't even gotten the bike yet and I'm wondering if 29+ wheels will fit. Anyone with any thoughts or guesses?


Anyone every figure this out? Not sure what the benefits of a 29+ wheels are just yet


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

The 29+ wheels should fit no problem. I've got a Sturgis and am getting ready to build a Boris up as a 29+ as a second bike for the wife. I test fitted some regular 29x2.1s in the rear and it seemed like there was at least an inch of extra clearance- the tech at Bikes Direct agreed that 29x3.0s should be no problem. The Gravity 26x4/27.5x3/29x3 bikes are all the same frames as far as I can tell- just supplied with different wheelsets. The Sturgis/NT frame should have even more clearance than the Boris. Main benefits of the 29+ is just less weight/rolling resistance while still having a lot more squish than a regular 29er hardtail. Plus you can cram a 29x3.0 tire (barely) into a late model Fox or White Brothers fork without having to buy a Bluto to do it.....

I'm considering that same Chinese150mm carbon fork for winter riding to replace the Bluto. Pretty cheap way to lose 3 lbs! Not many 150mm cheapo carbon forks out there for now but another year and I'm sure you'll see more 150mm ones than 135mm QRs....


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

lyleberry said:


> The 29+ wheels should fit no problem. I've got a Sturgis and am getting ready to build a Boris up as a 29+ as a second bike for the wife. I test fitted some regular 29x2.1s in the rear and it seemed like there was at least an inch of extra clearance- the tech at Bikes Direct agreed that 29x3.0s should be no problem. The Gravity 26x4/27.5x3/29x3 bikes are all the same frames as far as I can tell- just supplied with different wheelsets. The Sturgis/NT frame should have even more clearance than the Boris. Main benefits of the 29+ is just less weight/rolling resistance while still having a lot more squish than a regular 29er hardtail. Plus you can cram a 29x3.0 tire (barely) into a late model Fox or White Brothers fork without having to buy a Bluto to do it.....
> 
> I'm considering that same Chinese150mm carbon fork for winter riding to replace the Bluto. Pretty cheap way to lose 3 lbs! Not many 150mm cheapo carbon forks out there for now but another year and I'm sure you'll see more 150mm ones than 135mm QRs....


Good to know. When you build it up CA. You provide details? I'm also waiting for that carbon fork from xmiplay to go down. Its at $195 shipped right now.


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

Yeah it'll probably be awhile before it's done. The 29x3.0s need at least a 35mm (preferably a 50mm) wide rim to run safely. BD sells a 38mm wheelset with their 29+ bikes but with no idea if they're heavy as sin or not, plus they're not planning on selling the bare wheelsets (per their sales team). A higher quality set I'll probably have to build myself or fork out $400 at least to buy one Ready to Roll. Will probably just run the regular 29er tires with the Fox fork for now then get around to the 29+ part later on.....

Heres what the M Boris frame looks like with regular 29er tires.. kinda cool looking I think.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Rode this bike (NTB) again yesterday. Rocky and technical riding. 18 miles at about 2500 feet vertical . I have a friend who is ultra technical who I was following. Usually I loose home right away, but I stuck right on his rear wheel. There's a techy really fun downhill chock full of switchbacks. Took my previous PR on strava from 11:47 to 10:45.
Conditions were not particularly good. SO STOKED.
had a really good time!

Posted that in the general bikes direct thread, but meant to post here. Please excuse the copy/paste I if you read both


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

That downhill ride sounds awesome. I'm not that confident yet and have been riding risk averse because I hadn't fallen yet on the bike. It was icy this weekend, a lot of people on the LBS ride went down, and I managed to drop the bike and bend my derailleur hanger. Made it back avoiding low gear, and later that day there was _an envelope that was supposed to contain_ a newer stronger hanger in the mailbox. I had debated waiting until they shipped everyone the stage 3 but decided it would be good to have one on hand in the meantime just in case. Now if the envelope they sent hadn't torn and the derailleur hanger gotten lost in the mail, I'd have an easy fix to do. As it is, I can ride the bike I suppose, but would be a little nervous about getting stuck if anything happens.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

2nd round of Sturgis Bullet deliveries officially set back a few weeks to ship between Feb 15-28th. Monkey sad.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Hey! Good news!

BD sent a courier to pick up their cargo container with the Sturgis Bullets in it!









-F


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Just looked on the BD site and the framesets are now delayed to Feb 15-28th as well :madman::madmax::madman: I am usually a good sport about stuff like this but pushing my ETA back a MONTH is not cool at all. I know it i I was hoping to have the frame as a 21st birthday present to myself but now I will be lucky if any of us see ours before the snow is gone. I have all the other parts I need to finish the build but the frame. This will most likely be the last time I buy from BD.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Luke000 said:


> Just looked on the BD site and the framesets are now delayed to Feb 15-28th as well :madman::madmax::madman: I am usually a good sport about stuff like this but pushing my ETA back a MONTH is not cool at all. I know it i I was hoping to have the frame as a 21st birthday present to myself but now I will be lucky if any of us see ours before the snow is gone. I have all the other parts I need to finish the build but the frame. This will most likely be the last time I buy from BD.


Unfortunately it is not their fault. Everyone is affected by the port slow downs. Before you know it, the bike will appear at your door. 

I don't mind as I am trying to even out expenses on the build so the longer I wait the longer I can hold off buying cranks for the new frame!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Luke000 said:


> Just looked on the BD site and the framesets are now delayed to Feb 15-28th as well :madman::madmax::madman: I am usually a good sport about stuff like this but pushing my ETA back a MONTH is not cool at all. I know it i I was hoping to have the frame as a 21st birthday present to myself but now I will be lucky if any of us see ours before the snow is gone. I have all the other parts I need to finish the build but the frame. This will most likely be the last time I buy from BD.





Tonggi said:


> Unfortunately it is not their fault. Everyone is affected by the port slow downs. Before you know it, the bike will appear at your door.
> 
> I don't mind as I am trying to even out expenses on the build so the longer I wait the longer I can hold off buying cranks for the new frame!


I think the problem is volume. It would seem that BD deals in fairly low quantities, and without a distribution network (ie, LBSs) there is no buffer for delivery disruptions. I'm sure they will deliver, but it's a weird feeling. I never loaned a complete stranger $1300 over the internet before. Probably won't "pre-order" anything ever again, no matter what the claimed $avings might be.

-F


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## EddieZ (Oct 9, 2014)

I just replaced the Bottom Bracket on my Night Train Bullet. It lasted only 2 months!

I recall a comment or two about this topic not long ago. 

I think I'm going to have to be a little more careful with this bike. I transport it on a hitch mount so it see's occasional road salt. Maybe a plastic shopping bag and a bungee might protect it better. I think the real culprit is from spraying it down with the hose to get the mud off. I might have to back off on that. 

I glommed some bearing grease on the outside of the new BB, maybe that'll help keep some water outta there too.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

EddieZ said:


> I just replaced the Bottom Bracket on my Night Train Bullet. It lasted only 2 months!
> 
> I recall a comment or two about this topic not long ago.
> 
> ...


Yea I try not to use water on my DH bike (with all the pivots) just so the bearings don't get dried out. But with mud I let it dry. then remove by hand and use pledge to clean the bike. lol. This bike shop by me who cleans all the High end road bikes swears by pledge. Talked me out of buying Muc OFf which is what they sell and use Pledge instead.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Clean with a hose on medium- free flowing, not sprayed! Rinse from top of bike down. Then take a weak-bristled brush with soapy water and lightly scrub everything. Then rinse with hose in same fashion. 
Takes about ten minutes. Then let dry in sun for an hour, and relube what you feel you need to.
Sometimes I take off the chain first and do that separate.
I'll line up all my bikes and do it in 2 hours on a sunny day.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Fleas said:


> I think the problem is volume. It would seem that BD deals in fairly low quantities, and without a distribution network (ie, LBSs) there is no buffer for delivery disruptions. I'm sure they will deliver, but it's a weird feeling. I never loaned a complete stranger $1300 over the internet before. Probably won't "pre-order" anything ever again, no matter what the claimed $avings might be.
> 
> -F


I guess this is my problem, that I gave them $700 for the frame (they didnt waste any time charging my card lol) and I am just hoping it eventually ships. I am not a fan of loaning out my money to strangers over the internet for periods that keep getting longer and longer. I know other people are having the same problems but they dont seem nearly as bad as this (I work at 2 local shops and can see the effects all across the board) My other issue is the fluid ETA's that are always changing and I have to either look on here or their website for updated time.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

Newbie needing help here, on derailleur issue. If I bent it, and it bent back and it didn't break, is it safe to ride assuming no hits? I ordered the new improved hanger, but twice now they've sent me an envelope that arrives with a tear in the middle and the derailleur hanger gone. I went through almost 3 months without the bike dropping during a ride. But when I ordered a spare DH seems like I jinxed it.

Anyone else order the new derailleur hanger and get an empty envelope with a tear in the middle of it?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

ETChipotle said:


> Newbie needing help here, on derailleur issue. If I bent it, and it bent back and it didn't break, is it safe to ride assuming no hits? I ordered the new improved hanger, but twice now they've sent me an envelope that arrives with a tear in the middle and the derailleur hanger gone. I went through almost 3 months without the bike dropping during a ride. But when I ordered a spare DH seems like I jinxed it.
> 
> Anyone else order the new derailleur hanger and get an empty envelope with a tear in the middle of it?


I bent two of mine back. While its safe to ride, all it takes is for you to lay the bike down incorrectly and it will likely snap. Both of the ones I bent back broke the next time out. The first bent again when i laid the bike down to rest (it snapped when i tried to bend it back) and the other snapped off when I fell while riding. While you can definitely ride it, I would be very hesitant. It sucks being miles away from your house or car with a 35 lb useless bike.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Luke000 said:


> I guess this is my problem, that I gave them $700 for the frame (they didnt waste any time charging my card lol) and I am just hoping it eventually ships. I am not a fan of loaning out my money to strangers over the internet for periods that keep getting longer and longer. I know other people are having the same problems but they dont seem nearly as bad as this (I work at 2 local shops and can see the effects all across the board) My other issue is the fluid ETA's that are always changing and I have to either look on here or their website for updated time.


BD is a reputable company and although they may be new to you, they're not a "stranger" in the industry. This situation is beyond their control and they have no way of know exactly when their container(s) will be leave the port.

If you want someone to blame, the real culprit is the International Longshore and Warehouse Union. According to an article I just read "The average dockworker now makes $147,000 a year in salary, plus $35,000 a year in employer-paid health care and an annual pension of $80,000, according to an association press release."

Apparently, this isn't enough for them! Ungrateful bastards!


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

I received a derailer hanger envelope, with a tear in it.. but luckily the hanger was still in there.... but certainly they need to be made aware to tape these things onto a folded piece of cardboard...


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Bnystrom said:


> BD is a reputable company and although they may be new to you, they're not a "stranger" in the industry. This situation is beyond their control and they have no way of know exactly when their container(s) will be leave the port.
> 
> If you want someone to blame, the real culprit is the International Longshore and Warehouse Union. According to an article I just read "The average dockworker now makes $147,000 a year in salary, plus $35,000 a year in employer-paid health care and an annual pension of $80,000, according to an association press release."
> 
> Apparently, this isn't enough for them! Ungrateful bastards!


^^^This is true (not to get too far off topic)

I think the union demands are what did in Hostess Twinkies and why Delphi and GM file bankruptcy every few years. They can't charge any more for their product to pay for the union demands. When a forklift driver makes twice what a college degreed engineer makes in the same company, you know there is a problem.

-F


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

While it is easy to point the finger at the unions, which by most understanding have become far more greedy than they anyone ever thought possible, let's not forget that unions were created to protect the working man. A professor of mine once said, "no industry ever got a union that didn't deserve it," and I am inclined to agree.
Incredibly poor treatment of longshoremen over the not so distant past have created an environment of mistrust, danger, and severe personal loss.
Both sides of that disagreement need to come back to the table, since it is clear that the true victims of this particular work stoppage are the American people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## clark4131 (May 30, 2004)

I sure hope this doesn't devolve into an anti-union/Tea Party thread...there's way too much of that in the world already! That said, I got my new hanger today and my "seat-of-the-pants-o-meter" said it seems much stouter. I'm going to keep my current one on, but the new one will be in my frame bag just in case...SC


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

clark4131 said:


> I sure hope this doesn't devolve into an anti-union/Tea Party thread...there's way too much of that in the world already! That said, I got my new hanger today and my "seat-of-the-pants-o-meter" said it seems much stouter. I'm going to keep my current one on, but the new one will be in my frame bag just in case...SC


I wonder if the new frame come with the update hangers or not but I might as well order one.


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## H.Seaward (Dec 18, 2010)

1. Stop setting your bike down on the derailleur side. Even better, lean it against a tree.

2. Head over to the Specialized Fatboy thread from last year if you want to read some legit complaining. No port issues, just horrible PR. Not really a surprise though.

3. If you have the black NT frame, don't buy that ebay carbon fork. It does not match.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

I don't have any experience falling or wiping out or such yet, so I'm not skilled at falling in the right direction when I lose traction on ice, and really wasn't ready for it last weekend when it happened. But hopefully I can think about it when I start to recover from slips to develop a reaction to rip the bike to the other side before it goes down. I'm not there yet. When the rear tire goes out from under you on ice, is that what you guys do who have been at this for awhile?


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## Wyoming Shooter (May 15, 2014)

Tonggi said:


> I wonder if the new frame come with the update hangers or not but I might as well order one.


Please let us know if you learn anything from BD about this. I have Sturgis Bullet on the boat for delivery in February (?) and am wondering if I should order a replacement hanger now. Thanks.


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## H.Seaward (Dec 18, 2010)

ETChipotle said:


> I don't have any experience falling or wiping out or such yet, so I'm not skilled at falling in the right direction when I lose traction on ice, and really wasn't ready for it last weekend when it happened. But hopefully I can think about it when I start to recover from slips to develop a reaction to rip the bike to the other side before it goes down. I'm not there yet. When the rear tire goes out from under you on ice, is that what you guys do who have been at this for awhile?


Nothing you can do about falling. Just get in the habit of setting your bike down on the brake side


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## jazzer2 (Aug 14, 2006)

ETChipotle said:


> I don't have any experience falling or wiping out or such yet, so I'm not skilled at falling in the right direction when I lose traction on ice, and really wasn't ready for it last weekend when it happened. But hopefully I can think about it when I start to recover from slips to develop a reaction to rip the bike to the other side before it goes down. I'm not there yet. When the rear tire goes out from under you on ice, is that what you guys do who have been at this for awhile?


I don't know about trying to save your derailleur hanger, but I've found that the key to falling safely is to let the bike slide out from under you. You should already have been using the technique of putting weight on your outside foot and leaning the bike over to the inside of a turn. That way when you loose traction you can step off with your inside foot and let the bike slide away. This won't do anything to save your derailleur but its a much more gentle way to fall. Most times I end up just standing up.

Falls happen so quickly that there is really no time to prepare except to ride in a way to be always ready to slide out rather than being launched.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

jazzer2 said:


> Falls happen so quickly that there is really no time to prepare except to ride in a way to be always ready to slide out rather than being launched.


Motorcycle training helped me to determine there are two types of falls; highside and lowside. The dismount you describe is a low-side fall, and by far the most graceful non-intentioned exit one can make from any bike.

My experience on my fatbike has not been primarily low-side falls, instead I have found myself flying highside more than once, and a couple of endo's due to captured rims on branches or rocks.

My most painful ground contact experiment was over on the easy(!) trail at Fountainhead. It was a downhill, with a reverse gradient. I caught a root and flipped downhill, classic high-side fall. Threw my breath right out of my chest, and stunned me for a minute. Glad I had my helmet on! Had I been more prepared, I would have been much slower through the turn, and ready to dismount.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

WhiskeyJr said:


> While it is easy to point the finger at the unions, which by most understanding have become far more greedy than they anyone ever thought possible, let's not forget that unions were created to protect the working man. A professor of mine once said, "no industry ever got a union that didn't deserve it," and I am inclined to agree.
> Incredibly poor treatment of longshoremen over the not so distant past have created an environment of mistrust, danger, and severe personal loss.
> Both sides of that disagreement need to come back to the table, since it is clear that the true victims of this particular work stoppage are the American people.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I do not want to derail this thread either, but one thing everyone needs to remember is ALL workers, not just union workers are protected by Federal Labor Laws. Unions have outlived their usefulness. Federal, state and local labor laws do for the worker everything and more than unions have done to protect workers. Plus, they don't poison the workforce like unions.


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## jazzer2 (Aug 14, 2006)

mtb_fun said:


> I do not want to derail this thread either, but one thing everyone needs to remember is ALL workers, not just union workers are protected by Federal Labor Laws. Unions have outlived their usefulness. Federal, state and local labor laws do for the worker everything and more than unions have done to protect workers. Plus, they don't poison the workforce like unions.


But industry would happily poison the workforce without employee protections, that's how unions came onto existence.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

jazzer2 said:


> But industry would happily poison the workforce without employee protections, that's how unions came onto existence.


Again, we have labor laws now. Unions had their place last century, but no longer.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

Anybody running a dropper post in their NTB? If so, what model and how did you route the hose?

Thanks!

oh, got some nice "level ups" in the mail... Race Face Turbine crank + BB, 30T Race Face N/W ring, and a Truevativ AKA 70mm stem. Die front deraileur, die!


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

Shifty Bits said:


> Anybody running a dropper post in their NTB? If so, what model and how did you route the hose?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> oh, got some nice "level ups" in the mail... Race Face Turbine crank + BB, 30T Race Face N/W ring, and a Truevativ AKA 70mm stem. Die front deraileur, die!


Ran mine internally then under the BB and up a guide tube I painted to match the frame. Dropper is a Specialized Command Post 100mm. Long cable run but works fine and doesnt look too ugly. I ran the brake hose through another guide tube on the downtube to kinda hide it as well...


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## aliG (Dec 21, 2014)

*Cancel your order!*

BOYZ!!!! cancel that :madman: BD order and get a Framed bike from The Houuuse! :thumbsup:

You could be ice biking NOW instead of staring at yer monkey! :eekster:


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

aliG said:


> BOYZ!!!! cancel that :madman: BD order and get a Framed bike from The Houuuse! :thumbsup:
> 
> You could be ice biking NOW instead of staring at yer monkey! :eekster:


That's such a lame thing to post here.
I've never bothered to neg rep someone but I might try it out on you.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Still waiting for my frameset to ship, I got the wheelset yesterday. I just got the standard wheels that come on the bullet. I decided to try and mess around setting them up tubeless, I tried at first just the split tube method and although I was able to get the tires to seal and take air the bead was very uneven and would have popped off. So I made a quick trip to Lowes and picked up a 50 foot X 3-1/2 roll of Dow foam seal. I cut some sections up in two widths, one skinny one to fill the deep part of the rim and then one a little wider that went almost from wall to wall. Then I put my split tube back on. (I used a Q-tubes 24X 2.4-2.75, with removable presta valve core) mounted the tire (very tight fit) shot some air into it, seated right up with a perfect bead, took the valve cor out and added 4oz of Bontrager TLR sealant, and filled the tire up, shook it and let it sit, trimmed off the excess tube material. The tires are still going strong today


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Pictures?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Luke000 said:


> Still waiting for my frameset to ship, I got the wheelset yesterday. I just got the standard wheels that come on the bullet. I decided to try and mess around setting them up tubeless, I tried at first just the split tube method and although I was able to get the tires to seal and take air the bead was very uneven and would have popped off. So I made a quick trip to Lowes and picked up a 50 foot X 3-1/2 roll of Dow foam seal. I cut some sections up in two widths, one skinny one to fill the deep part of the rim and then one a little wider that went almost from wall to wall. Then I put my split tube back on. (I used a Q-tubes 24X 2.4-2.75, with removable presta valve core) mounted the tire (very tight fit) shot some air into it, seated right up with a perfect bead, took the valve cor out and added 4oz of Bontrager TLR sealant, and filled the tire up, shook it and let it sit, trimmed off the excess tube material. The tires are still going strong today


Nice. Split tube and foam is definitely the call for those rims.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Tonggi said:


> Pictures?


I forgot to take them when I was doing it :/

But this is what I followed to do it: How To Convert Your Fat Bike to Tubeless Using a Split Tube | Singletracks Mountain Bike News

This is a quick sketch I did of how everything looks once it is set up


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Luke000 said:


> I forgot to take them when I was doing it :/
> 
> But this is what I followed to do it: How To Convert Your Fat Bike to Tubeless Using a Split Tube | Singletracks Mountain Bike News
> 
> This is a quick sketch I did of how everything looks once it is set up


BTW- forgot to add, I *lost 280 grams per tire* over the stock Vee rubber tubes!


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## H.Seaward (Dec 18, 2010)

aliG said:


> BOYZ!!!! cancel that :madman: BD order and get a Framed bike from The Houuuse! :thumbsup:
> 
> You could be ice biking NOW instead of staring at yer monkey! :eekster:


This is laughable because the original order of night trains arrived on time. The Framed Alaskans did not, for the same port issues...


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

H.Seaward said:


> This is laughable because the original order of night trains arrived on time. The Framed Alaskans did not, for the same port issues...


He's an uber troll. Don't bother


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

lyleberry said:


> View attachment 962374
> 
> 
> Ran mine internally then under the BB and up a guide tube I painted to match the frame. Dropper is a Specialized Command Post 100mm. Long cable run but works fine and doesnt look too ugly. I ran the brake hose through another guide tube on the downtube to kinda hide it as well...


Thanks for the pic... where did you source the tube and what appears to be stick on cable guides?


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

Shifty Bits said:


> Thanks for the pic... where did you source the tube and what appears to be stick on cable guides?


Got the stick on guides off Ebay- the tubes are some old aluminum arrows I had laying around. I have carbon arrows too but they cost too much to just scrap out haha... the Command post has the cable move up and down with the seat so the tube keeps its straight- plus hides them a little against the white frame. I wish BD had put a double internal port on one side of the downtube.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

Any issues with using the dropper in the cold?


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

Not in San Diego!


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

lyleberry said:


> Not in San Diego!


:lol:

Yep, that'd be the trick to keep it from freezing.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Shifty Bits said:


> Any issues with using the dropper in the cold?


My Reverb post gets kinda sludgy feeling in the cold weather. I have tried it down to about 25*F and it still functioned just kinda slow.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

Thanks Luke.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

Yeah mine was about 2 weeks late, but it did arrive before the first snow in November. I never thought about worrying if some other brand was shipped earlier than that. I was gonna go look at framed after I ordered my BD bike, but there was an big road closure along my travels that day that messed things up, and I that killed the mood for trying to find a particular street in St. Paul.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

aliG said:


> BOYZ!!!! cancel that :madman: BD order and get a Framed bike from The Houuuse! :thumbsup:
> 
> You could be ice biking NOW instead of staring at yer monkey! :eekster:


I'm glad that you enjoy your bike. I've got a skinny-studded-tire winter rig with 300 studs per tire Nokians and I enjoy dahelloutofit.

I looked at, and strongly considered Framed Bikes from The House (aliG from in da house??). Nice bikes, but for me, the geo of the Sturgis/Night Train is better, based on my other bikes. And it would have taken $400 more to get a Bluto on a Framed Alaskan than it took to get a Bluto on my Sturgis.

So, even disregarding the better BD price, the Framed Alaskan was ruled out due to fitment preferences. But for those that want a more compact frame, or don't mind stretching it out with a longer stem... and you have the extra money to spend, the Alaskan is still a good deal. And it looks like you can have it quicker.

I guess since I've got something to ride in the mean-time, I don't mind the wait so terribly much. But I don't love it either.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

And here's what The House has to say about shipping delays--
So anybody that says that BikesDirect is any more subject to delays than some similar competitor is likely uninformed at best... or just lying.

https://images.the-house.com/west-coast-harbor-readme.jpg


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

Have had the Sturgis Bullet for over 2 months now.. loving it, grip studded the snowshoes, much happier on the lake ice and occasional forest road ice patch. running it almost stock except for lighter tubes... gearing is fantastic for the packed singletrack... I guess I could drop a few pounds off the bike with bar, stem, and seat post change ...along with tubeless.. time will tell.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

twright205 said:


> Have had the Sturgis Bullet for over 2 months now.. loving it, grip studded the snowshoes, much happier on the lake ice and occasional forest road ice patch. running it almost stock except for lighter tubes... gearing is fantastic for the packed singletrack... I guess I could drop a few pounds off the bike with bar, stem, and seat post change ...along with tubeless.. time will tell.


Sounds good! How many grip studs are you running on the Snowshoes and how was the install? I already did the cockpit upgrades you mentioned and switched to Q-tubes. I've taken a few falls on the bike so far this winter and feel like I would fair better with studs. The 4.5 snowshoes also have very little corner bite due to a low profile side tread making it sometimes hard to turn and causing washout on semi-slick surfaces. Almost ready to take the plunge with studs...Almost. ;-)


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

I put in about 50 each tire. not down the center line...but just off center. took a bit over an hour to get both tires done. Just used the hand tool. you end up perfecting your approach to the install, starting them off a an angle ...certainly notice a difference on slick surfaces... I know they are a bit costly.. but as a friend says, a busted elbow costs more...


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

Fun on the Sturgis today!! The ice pellets make a nice grippy surface to ride on!


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Subscribed. My Sturgis is delayed because of apparent port issues. The wait is killing me.


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## $ir enoK (Feb 10, 2015)

just got conformation that the sturgis bikes scheduled to ship feb 15-28, will NOT ship with the updated derailleur hanger (#28S2)


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

$ir enoK said:


> just got conformation that the sturgis bikes scheduled to ship feb 15-28, will NOT ship with the updated derailleur hanger (#28S2)


Dang it :madman:
:madmax:


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

$ir enoK said:


> just got conformation that the sturgis bikes scheduled to ship feb 15-28, will NOT ship with the updated derailleur hanger (#28S2)


Any news on frames by any chance?


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## $ir enoK (Feb 10, 2015)

nothing im aware of, unfortunately. but there is good news... just received this response from BD.

"The updated hanger still has not arrived it will be #28S3 and we will be shipping them to everyone that purchased a bike that used the #28 hanger.
Best regards,
Larry @ Bikes Direct"

Thanks Larry! very happy with BD's support so far. now i just need to hurry up, and wait...


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

$ir enoK said:


> nothing im aware of, unfortunately. but there is good news... just received this response from BD.
> 
> "The updated hanger still has not arrived it will be #28S3 and we will be shipping them to everyone that purchased a bike that used the #28 hanger.
> Best regards,
> ...


Thats awesome. so everyone who ordered a bike originally will be getting one. Go bd cs!


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## snowman93 (Jan 23, 2015)

Felt Double Double looks very similar to the Sturgis. Probably old news, but I haven't read through the full 66 pages of the posts here.


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

As soon as BD puts a Bosch motor in a Sturgis and slaps on a Kuiu paint job like the Felt Outfitter... good by bank account!


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Ok. Subtopic. Anyone who went 1 by 10 thinking of drilling a hole in the seat tube to put in a stealth dropper? There are already 2 holes on the downtube for the front derailleur. All that would be needed is a hole towards the base of the seat tube then wrap it under the BB shell and through the internal routing holes where the front derailleur cables were. Sure it would void the frame warranty and may decrease re sale, but how much would we really get for a Motobecane frame anyway? Any thoughts on compromising frame integrity? Looks like plenty of people have done it on the forum for other bikes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Why would you want your dropper to be stealth?


----------



## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I guess for a cleaner look. Although I guess I could use a non stealth KS LEV and run it behind the seat tube and then thru the front derailleur holes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

snowman93 said:


> Felt Double Double looks very similar to the Sturgis. Probably old news, but I haven't read through the full 66 pages of the posts here.
> View attachment 963363
> 
> 
> View attachment 963362


Hey, I see rear rack mounts on the Felt.

-F


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## 2BrownDogs (Dec 15, 2014)

Fleas said:


> Hey, I see rear rack mounts on the Felt.
> 
> -F


I was of the understanding that the latest shipment of Sturgis and NightTrain's are also coming with rack mounts.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

2BrownDogs said:


> I was of the understanding that the latest shipment of Sturgis and NightTrain's are also coming with rack mounts.


Really? News to me but what do I know?


----------



## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

2BrownDogs said:


> I was of the understanding that the latest shipment of Sturgis and NightTrain's are also coming with rack mounts.


Yes. I received an email from BD confirming that. It is a little funny though that Felt has a picture of a frame (probably taken quite awhile ago) with rack mounts while Moto is just now getting frames with the rack mounts (and still don't have a picture). It makes me wonder about who gets priority for shipments, and how many frames there are in a warehouse in Taiwan while I have to wait 3+ months for a bike.

-F


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Well they aren't identical, so you can't just interchange them. The dropouts are definitely different.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Just got word from BD - they've finally received a container of Bullets (Night Train and Sturgis) and are prepping them to ship - it does not contain all of them, however, so some will apparently ship at a later date. I'm kind of surprised, as I really thought these were still floating off the coast of California somewhere. Woot. 

edit: tracking # already showing movement - scheduled delivery on Monday.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

AllMountin' said:


> Well they aren't identical, so you can't just interchange them. The dropouts are definitely different.


Yeah, a standardized derailleur hanger would so suck... 

-F


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Who received the email today regarding the container of sturgjs and frame sets that will be shipping out tmw


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Tonggi said:


> Who received the email today regarding the container of sturgjs and frame sets that will be shipping out tmw


Not me.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Hi, Thanks for being a smart cyclist and saving hundreds on your new Motobecane bike. 

Update on your order - A container with some Lurch, Lurch FS and FatBike Bullet Framesets arrived, FINALLY! Now, this container did not have the entire shipment on it so you happen to be one of the lucky ones who ordered early. Please enjoy your new bike but understand there are still many other customers who are still waiting patiently. 

We will begin shipping orders with in the next 24-48 hours. Please track your bike using the UPS tracking # that was sent to you shortly after ordering your bike. If you do not see it, please check your spam folder. *If you need that info re-sent, please reply to this email and let us know. 


Thats what was sent to me with prepay bikes on subject line


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Tonggi said:


> Hi, Thanks for being a smart cyclist and saving hundreds on your new Motobecane bike.*
> 
> Update on your order - A container with some Lurch, Lurch FS and FatBike Bullet Framesets arrived, FINALLY! Now, this container did not have the entire shipment on it so you happen to be one of the lucky ones who ordered early. Please enjoy your new bike but understand there are still many other customers who are still waiting patiently.*
> 
> ...


Didn't get and email for my prepay... :cryin::cryin:

When did you order yours? What color did you get?


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Luke000 said:


> Didn't get and email for my prepay... :cryin::cryin:
> 
> When did you order yours? What color did you get?


I'll check but must have been 3 weeks ago roughly. I bought the orange frameset with bluto in a size medium. You?


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Tonggi said:


> I'll check but must have been 3 weeks ago roughly. I bought the orange frameset with bluto in a size medium. You?


I ordered mine Jan 12th, so 1 month ago exactly. I got the green frameset with the bluto in an XL


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## prescott_old_timer (Dec 30, 2014)

*Night Train Bullet Shipping*

Hi, Thanks for being a smart cyclist and saving hundreds on your new Motobecane bike.

Update on your order - A container with some *Night Train Bullets and Sturgis Bullets arrived*, FINALLY! Now, this container did not have the entire shipment on it so you happen to be one of the lucky ones who ordered early. Please enjoy your new bike but understand there are still many other customers who are still waiting patiently.

We will begin shipping orders with in the next 24-48 hours. Please track your bike using the UPS tracking # that was sent to you shortly after ordering your bike. If you do not see it, please check your spam folder. *If you need that info re-sent, please reply to this email and let us know.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Funny your email skipped the part about bullet framesets. what did you order?


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## prescott_old_timer (Dec 30, 2014)

Tonggi said:


> Funny your email skipped the part about bullet framesets. what did you order?


Night Train Bullet Complete Bike. First week of December.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Well I bent my second hanger so I put on the reported new and improved one and fell on it once(it was muddy unexpectedly) and it held up. So far so good!


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## dubinjs (Nov 6, 2010)

Has anyone set up there stock Snowshoe tires on the stock Rims tubeless yet? I got them both to seat properly after taping the rims. The rear went easier than the front, but eventually got them both. I had to use a strap to get it done. 
The front stayed. The rear, was flat come morning. I re did the tape and tried again. 
Here is my issue: 
The tire must have stretched or something. It is way bigger around the rim than before. At first it was taught enough that I nearly needed to use a tool. Now, after sitting off the rim for a couple days while I waited for a new stem to arrive(one broke), it's so loose on the rim that it straight falls off it if it's tilted while handling it. Absolutely no way to seat the head without a tube. 
I have also found that the bead does not truly "lock" into the rim either. Once the pressure is released, the bead pops lose. 
Anyone have any experiences like this? Other tires they have put on that are worth swapping over to? Not a huge fan of these to start with. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Yay I get frameset Tuesday!


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

dubinjs, if you search for Weinman rims and tubeless you will find a thread about this issue. It doesn't look like folks have had much success getting these set up tubeless because there isn't much of a bead for the tires to set on. The split tube method seems to work. For me, I just got some light tubes, swapped out the heavy stock run strips with duct tape and called it a day. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

beachbum1 said:


> dubinjs, if you search for Weinman rims and tubeless you will find a thread about this issue. It doesn't look like folks have had much success getting these set up tubeless because there isn't much of a bead for the tires to set on. The split tube method seems to work. For me, I just got some light tubes, swapped out the heavy stock run strips with duct tape and called it a day.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm still curious how people do it with duct tape. You stick it back to back.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

beachbum1 said:


> Well I bent my second hanger so I put on the reported new and improved one and fell on it once(it was muddy unexpectedly) and it held up. So far so good!


Third time is a charm - I ordered the DH two weeks ago today. They sent one, it ripped out of the envelope. They sent another - same thing. Today I actually got an envelope with the DH in it! So I was wondering if anyone had given the new one any real world stress test yet. Besides in the shipping envelope.


----------



## Wyoming Shooter (May 15, 2014)

I ordered a 15.5 gray Sturgis Bullet on 1/22/15. I was notified today that it is scheduled for delivery on 2/17/15.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

dubinjs said:


> Has anyone set up there stock Snowshoe tires on the stock Rims tubeless yet? I got them both to seat properly after taping the rims. The rear went easier than the front, but eventually got them both. I had to use a strap to get it done.
> The front stayed. The rear, was flat come morning. I re did the tape and tried again.
> Here is my issue:
> The tire must have stretched or something. It is way bigger around the rim than before. At first it was taught enough that I nearly needed to use a tool. Now, after sitting off the rim for a couple days while I waited for a new stem to arrive(one broke), it's so loose on the rim that it straight falls off it if it's tilted while handling it. Absolutely no way to seat the head without a tube.
> ...


http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/how-weinmann-hl80s-tubeless-912220.html

^^^this one. Read the thread. Many people are running this setup split tubeless, including me for months and months. You almost always need the foam, helps seat the bead, and works great all the way down to nominal pressures. Give it a good try before dropping money on other tires, etc. Its worth it.


----------



## dubinjs (Nov 6, 2010)

Tonggi said:


> I'm still curious how people do it with duct tape. You stick it back to back.


Find some Tough Tape and wrap the rim two times. Starting on one side and slowly overlapping to the center, and then to the outer rim. Gotta make sure the tape covers the entire rim strip or air will get through the edges.

I got them both set, but one leaked through the edge. I re taped it, but then had the issue explained above.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

dubinjs said:


> Find some Tough Tape and wrap the rim two times. Starting on one side and slowly overlapping to the center, and then to the outer rim. Gotta make sure the tape covers the entire rim strip or air will get through the edges.
> 
> I got them both set, but one leaked through the edge. I re taped it, but then had the issue explained above.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. I will try that out.

On another note. I am freaking out. As soon as I heard the frame is shipping I went and ordered the Race Face Turbine Cinch from Bikeman with the BB, ring and crank arms.

But I bought the 170 rear spaced arms as I saw people here were able to run it no issue. I wanted this for the shorter Q-Factor But will this work with the frame and will it work with a 4.8" Bud tire in the rear?

I am tempted to possibly email Bikeman and just have them send me a 190 MM rear spaced crankset.

The Q-Factor is 222. The Q Factor on the 170 is 202. I read somewhere the Q factor on the samox cranks are 230. Not sure how right or wrong that is.

Can anyone who run true big rear tires that switch to 170 MM rear or 190 rear give in their two cents?

I have a picture of someone with the stock cranks in the granny gear, rear on the 36T with Lou tires with pretty good clearance. Not sure how much more the 170 rear spaced arms will go. (Attached)


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

Tonggi said:


> I'm still curious how people do it with duct tape. You stick it back to back.


I put two long pieces of duct tape together sticky side to sticky side. This makes one strip with outside surface on both sides. I placed this around the wheel where the rim strip goes and overlapped the ends a few inches. I taped over the lap with a piece of duct tape about six inches long.

This provides a light strip with non sticky side duct tape facing both inside the wheel and outside the wheel.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

mtb_fun said:


> I put two long pieces of duct tape together sticky side to sticky side. This makes one strip with outside surface on both sides. I placed this around the wheel where the rim strip goes and overlapped the ends a few inches. I taped ever the lap with a piece of duct tape about six inches long.
> 
> This provides a light strip with non sticky side duct tape facing both inside the wheel and outside the wheel.


Thats how I envisioned it and was like, this can't be lighter than the rim strip on there now? I cut the strip thinner but who knows what weight that actually saved against doing it with gorilla tape


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

Tonggi said:


> Thats how I envisioned it and was like, this can't be lighter than the rim strip on there now? I cut the strip thinner but who knows what weight that actually saved against doing it with gorilla tape


I did not use Gorilla, it is too heavy for this application. I used 3M outdoor grade duct tape and it came out much lighter than the original rim strips.

I also used Specialized 2.3-3.0x26 tubes. I really like how my tire/wheel combo came out with this setup.


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## dubinjs (Nov 6, 2010)

Gorilla tape is the heaviest option out there. Save weight by using Scotch "tough" tape (White or Clear). 
I used the white. Kept the stock rim strip on. Ran tape two times around the rim (right, middle, left, left, middle, right). I lost 1.3 lbs on each wheel. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

mtb_fun said:


> I put two long pieces of duct tape together sticky side to sticky side. This makes one strip with outside surface on both sides. I placed this around the wheel where the rim strip goes and overlapped the ends a few inches. I taped over the lap with a piece of duct tape about six inches long.
> 
> This provides a light strip with non sticky side duct tape facing both inside the wheel and outside the wheel.


This but I didn't use two strips. Just used one strip of colored duct tape and taped it down to the wheel with regular clear shipping tape.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Wyoming Shooter said:


> I ordered a 15.5 gray Sturgis Bullet on 1/22/15. I was notified today that it is scheduled for delivery on 2/17/15.


 What? I ordered my Sturgis Bullet the same day but 17.5 yellow but no email.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

tonyride1 said:


> What? I ordered my Sturgis Bullet the same day but 17.5 yellow but no email.


Same here, I ordered my frameset on 1/12 and it has not shipped. My guess is our packages in a different container being held hostage at the port still.


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## 2BrownDogs (Dec 15, 2014)

Wyoming Shooter said:


> I ordered a 15.5 gray Sturgis Bullet on 1/22/15. I was notified today that it is scheduled for delivery on 2/17/15.


How are you guys getting emails from them? I haven't received communications from BD since they took my money last year and sent me the inactive UPS shipper. Kind of bummed with the whole situation and wish I would have gone a different route now.


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## woodsskier (Nov 28, 2012)

Tonggi said:


> Thanks. I will try that out.
> 
> On another note. I am freaking out. As soon as I heard the frame is shipping I went and ordered the Race Face Turbine Cinch from Bikeman with the BB, ring and crank arms.
> 
> ...


I'm running x9 cranks with a direct mount ring and I still have around 3-4mm clearance in the largest cog with a 4.8 dillinger. With race face I think you can flip the ring for even more offset. I would be most concerned about striking your heels against the stays. If you pedal duck footed you will be close.


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## prescott_old_timer (Dec 30, 2014)

Got this email from BD to my question about DH on the current shipment of NT Bullets.

Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, the hanger should be stronger in this shipment of
bikes. There should also be a spare, most likely in the
small parts box.
We will also be sending a free stage 3 hanger to all
Night Train and Sturgis customers as soon as they show up,
which should be in the next couple of weeks.
If there is anything else I can help you with, please let me know.
Thanks again and have a great day!
Karla


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

2BrownDogs said:


> How are you guys getting emails from them? I haven't received communications from BD since they took my money last year and sent me the inactive UPS shipper. Kind of bummed with the whole situation and wish I would have gone a different route now.


Yeah, mine was ordered 11/17/14. All I got was a 2-3 week delay notice.

-F


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

FYI - my order is 19" Yellow Sturgis Bullet, and has been shipped, in case that helps anyone figure out what's coming and what's late. I ordered the first day the 2nd round of Sturgis Bullets became available.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Asked BD today when the rest of our bikes/ frames were going to ship since others have started to have theirs shipped. 

This was the reply:
Bikesdirect
Hi - these are trickling in.  Could be any day/week now


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Ordered 1/18/15 17.5 yellow Sturgis Bullet - no email.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

*19" Yellow Sturgis Bullet*

Yellow Sturgis Bullet has arrived. They've really stepped up on the packaging, no shipping damage or holes in boxes. A big improvement over when my Lurch showed up half a year ago. I did not see an additional derailleur hanger, however. The freehub body is steel. Changed out handlebars, switched over to XT brakes, and added a dropper post. Split tubeless on another day.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Nice looking bike. What did u use to fasten the dropper cable to the top tube? I'm thinking of a dropper post as well and was thinking of running it under the BB and through the internal housing from the removed front derailleur. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

watermonkey said:


> Yellow Sturgis Bullet has arrived. They've really stepped up on the packaging, no shipping damage or holes in boxes. A big improvement over when my Lurch showed up half a year ago. I did not see an additional derailleur hanger, however. The freehub body is steel. Changed out handlebars, switched over to XT brakes, and added a dropper post. Split tubeless on another day.


Nice looking bike! My buddy is waiting on one of these. Hopefully he gets it soon.


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## $ir enoK (Feb 10, 2015)

thanks for the pics! glad to see the rack mounts, and happy to hear about the packaging. bummer about the missing extra derailleur. still waiting on my 19" in yellow... at least i know what it will look like now.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Cool. Did you happen to weigh it?


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Who here is switching out the heavy 80mm rims and snowshoe tires for a lighter warm season wheelset?

Debating on 3 different setups right now, as the NTB has plenty of clearance out back and with the Bluto.
In order of liking are these:
27.5 Hugo or Scraper rim with 3.25 Traxx Fatty - others to come?
29+ Hugo or Scraper with 3.0 Knard or Bonti Chupacabra
65mm carbon rim with 4.0 Jumbo Jim or 3.8 Knard

Any one of these wheels and tire combo would be awesome on this bike, just trying to figure out what would be best for the riding I do and the size factor. I am 5'10 inches, so I am leaning toward 650b or even 26 inch as I like a smaller fun size and is what I'm used to. I also like speed, so the 29+ is not out of the question, although we have lots of tight twisty trails here in NE, so not sure.

I know its early in the game for some of these setups, but would love to see some of them on this bike and how it changed the handling.


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

beachbum1 said:


> Nice looking bike. What did u use to fasten the dropper cable to the top tube? I'm thinking of a dropper post as well and was thinking of running it under the BB and through the internal housing from the removed front derailleur.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When I put the dropper on mine I used the internal routing for the front deralieur because I went 1x10. Ran the cable under the bb and up the seat tube with stick on guides.

Not the best photo but all I could find.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Who here is switching out the heavy 80mm rims and snowshoe tires for a lighter warm season wheelset?
> 
> I know its early in the game for some of these setups, but would love to see some of them on this bike and how it changed the handling.


Keep in mind that the handling is more a function of the frame/fork geometry than the wheel size. Also, reducing the overall wheel diameter lowers the bottom bracket by 1/2 of the diameter difference, which can potentially cause clearance problems if you change it substantially.

Lighter wheels will make it more responsive to pedaling and faster to turn into corners. Narrower tires with more pressure will eliminate self-steer, but provide less cushion.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the best choice depends on what your goals are.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Bnystrom said:


> Keep in mind that the handling is more a function of the frame/fork geometry than the wheel size. Also, reducing the overall wheel diameter lowers the bottom bracket by 1/2 of the diameter difference, which can potentially cause clearance problems if you change it substantially.
> 
> Lighter wheels will make it more responsive to pedaling and faster to turn into corners. Narrower tires with more pressure will eliminate self-steer, but provide less cushion.
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is that the best choice depends on what your goals are.


My overall plan is to reduce rolling resistance and weight for riding mostly dry rocky/rooty conditions. I really don't think any of the wheel/tire combos I listed would lower the bottom bracket as much as you stated - 1/2 inch....that should actually stay about the same. I do think the tire/rim choice will be a key factor in the changes I hope to make by the spring. Just looking for some real time setups on this particular bike...the NTB. ;D


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## prescott_old_timer (Dec 30, 2014)

*Black Night Train Bullet received today!*

My Christmas gift finally arrived today. A Night Train Bullet in Black. :drumroll:


----------



## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Me too, I built it up immediately with the following changes:
Studded Dillinger 5s
Oneup 42 tooth 
Reverb dropper post

Other than that, I love it. Now my topeak fat bike pump is stuck in some west coast port, so I had to just play with tire pressures to get it right.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

NH Mtbiker said:


> I really don't think any of the wheel/tire combos I listed would lower the bottom bracket as much as you stated - 1/2 inch....that should actually stay about the same.


I didn't say "1/2 inch", I said "1/2 of the diameter difference". For example, if you installed a wheel/tire combination that was 20mm smaller in diameter, the bottom bracket would end up 10mm lower. I don't know if any of the combinations you mentioned would be that much smaller, it's just a random number to illustrate my point.

As for reducing rolling resistance and weight, the 29+ setup would probably be the best be the best bet there. Any weight savings with smaller wheels would be lost to the larger tires required to keep the overall diameter close to that of your fatties.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Bnystrom said:


> I didn't say "1/2 inch", I said "1/2 of the diameter difference". For example, if you installed a wheel/tire combination that was 20mm smaller in diameter, the bottom bracket would end up 10mm lower. I don't know if any of the combinations you mentioned would be that much smaller, it's just a random number to illustrate my point.
> 
> As for reducing rolling resistance and weight, the 29+ setup would probably be the best be the best bet there. Any weight savings with smaller wheels would be lost to the larger tires required to keep the overall diameter close to that of your fatties.


Thanks, my bad. I agree that the 29+ setup would be the best choice for this frame. I measured the axle to chainstay and the axle to Bluto crown and both were 15+ inches of clearance...so plenty of room in there without screwing up the geo numbers too much. Just pondering the 27.5 size because the tires would hopefully be wider. Thnx for your input!


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## danny31292 (Jul 20, 2011)

After 250 miles my front chainring is toast. I didn't baby my drivetrain, cross chained quite a bit (seems unavoidable with fatbike gearing unless you front shift constantly), and rode on salty roads. I did expect more lift out of it though. Going to replace it with a steel 22t ring.


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## 2BrownDogs (Dec 15, 2014)

prescott_old_timer said:


> My Christmas gift finally arrived today. A Night Train Bullet in Black. :drumroll:


Can you confirm if this latest version of the Night Train has the frame lugs for a rack this time around?


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

2BrownDogs said:


> Can you confirm if this latest version of the Night Train has the frame lugs for a rack this time around?


Yes it does. Look at the pictures in message #1693


----------



## prescott_old_timer (Dec 30, 2014)

*Frame Lugs and Dropper Post Cable Guides*



2BrownDogs said:


> Can you confirm if this latest version of the Night Train has the frame lugs for a rack this time around?


My Night Train Bullet came with bosses for a rear rack and it also has cable guides on lower left side of the top tube, for a dropper post! Sweet.:rockon:


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

My Orange BEAST CAME IN. I started assembling it.

Newly added is the Race Face Cinch 100mm BB for 170 MM Rear spacing. the Q factor is perfect. Not super wide. no rub on Surly Bud tires on the 42 rear. I did invert the Ring as recommended to add more chain spacing.

I need to cut the steerer tube for the bluto and get it tuned up then its ready to ride!


----------



## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

*New Bullets - same derailleur hanger issues*



prescott_old_timer said:


> My Night Train Bullet came with bosses for a rear rack and it also has cable guides on lower left side of the top tube, for a dropper post! Sweet.:rockon:





Tonggi said:


> My Orange BEAST CAME IN. I started assembling it.
> 
> Newly added is the Race Face Cinch 100mm BB for 170 MM Rear spacing. the Q factor is perfect. Not super wide. no rub on Surly Bud tires on the 42 rear. I did invert the Ring as recommended to add more chain spacing.
> 
> I need to cut the steerer tube for the bluto and get it tuned up then its ready to ride!


Ok, seriously, post some pics already.

My derailleur hanger is already bent, and I'm ashamed to say I've only got road miles on the new ride so far - so no wrecks, no brush grabbing, no jumps, just bent. Given that my box had a December 14th production date, and that there were no spare hangers in the box, I think its safe to assume these are the "old" first gen hangers. Email into BD already - updates as I have them. So, in the meantime, go easy - they're gonna break. Other than that, Holy [email protected]#$ this thing is fun!

Also, my shipping label showed the date I purchased the bike, which leads me to believe they are shipping bikes in the order purchased.


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> Ok, seriously, post some pics already.


Quid pro quo, M'er-F'er!! 

On a serious note, does this batch of Night Trains and Sturgises have the welded-on front derailleur mount? Not a fan...


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

I still need to install brakes and cut steerer tube but thats how itll lool


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Tonggi said:


> View attachment 965538
> 
> 
> I still need to install brakes and cut steerer tube but thats how itll lool


Is this a medium?


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

2002 Sport said:


> Is this a medium?


Yes sir that is a medium. Currently working on finishing her up and will post more


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Some pics... I assembled it 100% original, reflectors and all and got my 1st ride in. Beastly she is, but not at all speedy.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Tonggi said:


> Yes sir that is a medium. Currently working on finishing her up and will post more


Nice. Can't wait for my yellow medium.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

I've got a yellow medium coming also.... eventually.


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

tonyride1 said:


> I've got a yellow medium coming also.... eventually.


Can't wait until you get it Tony! We'll then have 4 fat bikes in our crew with a 5th on the way -- Eric bought a Lurch!


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Some more pictures after a shake out ride. Need to fix shifting but will manage for now. Wanted to show people the race face cranks I went with


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

I've gotta admit, even though there's no way I'm going 1x10, that is a much nicer chain line.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Allamuchy Joe said:


> Can't wait until you get it Tony! We'll then have 4 fat bikes in our crew with a 5th on the way -- Eric bought a Lurch!


Is Eric's bike stuck in a container somewhere like mine?


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

And the fully stock + my pedals 19" Sturgis Bullet weighs 37.2 lbs.

I've got lighter tubes to swap, a carbon bar and post, and a lighter saddle. That's about it. This ain't no race horse and I'm OK with that... I might eventually swap out the front tire for something a touch lighter and less prone to self-steer at low psi winter pressure


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

AthleticAL said:


> And the fully stock + my pedals 19" Sturgis Bullet weighs 37.2 lbs.
> 
> I've got lighter tubes to swap, a carbon bar and post, and a lighter saddle. That's about it. This ain't no race horse and I'm OK with that... I might eventually swap out the front tire for something a touch lighter and less prone to self-steer at low psi winter pressure


Just weighed mine. 31 pounds. Not sure how accurate my scale is versus my luggage scale.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Tonggi said:


> Just weighed mine. 31 pounds. Not sure how accurate my scale is versus my luggage scale.


Nice! Someday (most likely never) this big horse will approach that. But I'm not going to be too concerned. It's a fun bike more than a racer. Somebody's always going to have a carbon framed and wheeled lighter bike than me... but that doesn't mean that they'll be having any more fun


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

From this morning


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## 2BrownDogs (Dec 15, 2014)

When did you guys place your order for the NT's? I did mine on Dec11th and haven't heard a peep.
I'm a bit envious now after seeing a few of these new bikes trickle in.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

2BrownDogs said:


> When did you guys place your order for the NT's? I did mine on Dec11th and haven't heard a peep.
> I'm a bit envious now after seeing a few of these new bikes trickle in.


I feel bad for you and other folks that ordered and are still waiting. I ordered mine in late December. If you would've ordered a 19" Gunmetal Sturgis, you would have a bike now and I wouldn't. So I'm guessing you ordered a Night Train or a Sturgis in a different size or color. Hang in there, man.

I found the best thing for me was to not talk about it too much and to ride and appreciate another bike I have that has studded tires. That said, I hope you get your bike sooner rather than later.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

A glimmer of hope for those who are still waiting: BD offered to ship me a Sturgis Bullet in a different color immediately. I told them another week won't make much diff., so I'll just wait for a white one.
That doesn't mean it's necessarily a week, but that's what I'm telling myself.

They're getting closer!

-F

PS - my order went in in Nov.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Fleas said:


> A glimmer of hope for those who are still waiting: BD offered to ship me a Sturgis Bullet in a different color immediately. I told them another week won't make much diff., so I'll just wait for a white one.
> That doesn't mean it's necessarily a week, but that's what I'm telling myself.
> 
> They're getting closer!
> ...


What color did they offer you? What size do you have on order?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

prescott_old_timer said:


> Got this email from BD to my question about DH on the current shipment of NT Bullets.
> 
> Hi,
> Thanks for your reply.
> ...


Since the second batch version 2 of derailleur hangers didn't become available until January 28th, and my bike was boxed on December 14th, there's no way these are the new hangers on the bullets showing up. 







There's no extra hanger in the small parts box either. BD is sending a new version 2 to me free of charge, but I'm a little disappointed that they weren't proactive about it. If I was still waiting on my Sturgis to arrive, I would get in touch with them TODAY and have them put a #28 2nd gen hanger in the mail so you have it waiting when the bike shows. As everyone else reported, this thing bent just from me riding around and shifting gears.


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## Wyoming Shooter (May 15, 2014)

I assembled my 15.5 grey Sturgis Bullet last night. I'm a neophyte bike wrencher with modest mechanical skills. Even so, assembly wasn't much of a problem. I did bungle the front brake install by squeezing the brake lever without the rotor in place. My bad. I need to RTFM (Read The F***ing Manual). Snow is expected this weekend in the Big Empty and I'm anticipating the first ride. Photos to follow.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

2002 Sport said:


> What color did they offer you? What size do you have on order?


19" white on order. They offered grey and red. Since I passed, the offer will be made to the next order in line.
Good luck!

-F


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Fleas said:


> 19" white on order. They offered grey and red. Since I passed, the offer will be made to the next order in line.
> Good luck!
> 
> -F


Thanks for the info. Just trying to get an idea when I should expect mine. So far, I haven't seen any posts of any medium complete bikes being shipped/received other than the (orange) framesets...


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## McFat (Jan 11, 2015)

*Got mine*

Mine came Wed, put it together last night. Simple. Swapped out bars, stem and seat post and added peddals. So much snow here looks like my first ride will be on the road- snow covered.


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

McFat said:


> Mine came Wed, put it together last night. Simple. Swapped out bars, stem and seat post and added peddals. So much snow here looks like my first ride will be on the road- snow covered.


Be careful of salt from the roads. It will corrode bolts/cables/bearings on your bike. Don't ask my how I've learned this...


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

I can't stress enough how much I hate the Snowshoes, they SUCK in the snow. While you guys are waiting for your bikes to show up order some Vanhelga's or Bud and Lou. Use the Snowshoes when the ground is dry.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

siv said:


> I can't stress enough how much I hate the Snowshoes, they SUCK in the snow. While you guys are waiting for your bikes to show up order some Vanhelga's or Bud and Lou. Use the Snowshoes when the ground is dry.


Agreed. Used snowshoes. Ground control and now buds on snow and bud then ground control and snow shoe. The ground control and snowshoe on the snow were comparable. Notjing great. But they are good on dirt.

The buds is a whole new ballgame. Def invest in them for snow


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

siv said:


> I can't stress enough how much I hate the Snowshoes, they SUCK in the snow. While you guys are waiting for your bikes to show up order some Vanhelga's or Bud and Lou. Use the Snowshoes when the ground is dry.


I got a set of Dillinger 5 and put studs in while waiting for my NTB, the snowshoes were taken off at initial build and will sit in garage until summer, the 5's have been awesome in the snow and ice.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Crazy how much tires cost though.


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

siv said:


> Crazy how much tires cost though.


Some of these fat bike tires cost as much as automobile tires. Yikes!


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Allamuchy Joe said:


> Some of these fat bike tires cost as much as automobile tires. Yikes!


Yea I can get tires for my acura cheaper than my bike. That is just absurb.

The 15% off codes work at Jenson for surly tires.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Tonggi said:


> Yea I can get tires for my acura cheaper than my bike. That is just absurb.
> 
> The 15% off codes work at Jenson for surly tires.


The Vanhelga's too, still debating pulling the trigger. I guess you need to order them seperatly to get the discount on both tires.


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## Wyoming Shooter (May 15, 2014)

I contacted bikesdirect by email yesterday concerning the derailleur hanger on my Sturgis Bullet. Bikesdirect responded by email today promising a new hanger via priority mail. Kudos to bikesdirect for the good customer service.

"Hi **, 
Thanks for your email and order. 
We hope you love your new bike! 
The factory was supposed to 
send a replacement hanger with each new fat bike, however, it 
seems they did not. 
I will go ahead and get one mailed out for you today!
Is ** **** *** ** a good address to send Priority Mail to?
Please confirm  
Thanks again, 
Karla


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

siv said:


> The Vanhelga's too, still debating pulling the trigger. I guess you need to order them seperatly to get the discount on both tires.


Yea I did two orders and got free shipping.


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## coffeebiker (Dec 17, 2011)

*Night Train Bullet*

Got my 15.5 Nighttrain Bullet Thursday. Had it put together in about half an hour. Needed minor derailleur adjustment and headset had to be snugged up. I'm short (5'5") and had to cut the seat post just to get it to fit. Minor issue with front brake but just also a matter adjustment. I live in the Long Island/ New York metro area and we've had quite a bit of snow. I ride an all mountain bike normally and this is an adjustment. Easy to ride and nice float. Not great in deep snow but very good in couple of inches of snow over blacktop. Bike was basically adjusted and working out of the box. Nice finish too. Matte black is awesome. Put black flats for pedals and good with just about any shoe. Bought this fat bike for the numerous beaches in the area.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

I should be getting my Sturgis Bullet in about a week.... hopefully. Crossing my fingers.


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

tonyride1 said:


> I should be getting my Sturgis Bullet in about a week.... hopefully. Crossing my fingers.


Come on -- just pick it up already. Texas isn't that far to drive!


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

tonyride1 said:


> I should be getting my Sturgis Bullet in about a week.... hopefully. Crossing my fingers.


Did you get an email saying yours shipped?


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Luke000 said:


> Did you get an email saying yours shipped?


I did get an email yesterday saying it shipped but haven't seen movement on the UPS website yet. Here's the story. I ordered the 17.5" SB but in yellow only because that was the only color available at that size. So late last week I emaild BD and told them I'm getting tired of waiting and I'm considering cancelling my order. I know the shipping delay is not their fault but it's not fair to me since I've already paid for it. I also said that since they're getting some bikes in I will take any 17"-17.5" bike in any color, any model in the same price range if they have it. So Karla emailed me back saying they did get a 17.5" SB but in Gray if I want it. Natually I replied by with a YES and told her to send it right away. Gray was my first color of choice anyway. So yesterday I got an email from BD confirming the change with the same UPS tracking number as the one they sent for my yellow one. In that email they did say it can take up to 48 hours for UPS show movement.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Allamuchy Joe said:


> Come on -- just pick it up already. Texas isn't that far to drive!


Is that where they're shipped from?


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

tonyride1 said:


> Is that where they're shipped from?


Yes mine came from Garland Texas. Left Friday, would of been at my house Tuesday but snow storm delayed a day.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

tonyride1 said:


> I did get an email yesterday saying it shipped but haven't seen movement on the UPS website yet. Here's the story. I ordered the 17.5" SB but in yellow only because that was the only color available at that size. So late last week I emaild BD and told them I'm getting tired of waiting and I'm considering cancelling my order. I know the shipping delay is not their fault but it's not fair to me since I've already paid for it. I also said that since they're getting some bikes in I will take any 17"-17.5" bike in any color, any model in the same price range if they have it. So Karla emailed me back saying they did get a 17.5" SB but in Gray if I want it. Natually I replied by with a YES and told her to send it right away. Gray was my first color of choice anyway. So yesterday I got an email from BD confirming the change with the same UPS tracking number as the one they sent for my yellow one. In that email they did say it can take up to 48 hours for UPS show movement.


Awesome! I am really glad to hear that you are getting your bike (and the one you wanted). I have been wanting to cancel my frameset order for a while now, but the only thing that keeps me from doing it and putting up with the never ending wait is that I already bought all my other parts, and most I can not return and are frame specific


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Luke000 said:


> Awesome! I am really glad to hear that you are getting your bike (and the one you wanted). I have been wanting to cancel my frameset order for a while now, but the only thing that keeps me from doing it and putting up with the never ending wait is that I already bought all my other parts, and most I can not return and are frame specific


The wait is worth it. The colors are beautiful. My friends really dig the color a lot! What color did you get?


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## 2BrownDogs (Dec 15, 2014)

tonyride1 said:


> I did get an email yesterday saying it shipped but haven't seen movement on the UPS website yet. Here's the story. I ordered the 17.5" SB but in yellow only because that was the only color available at that size. So late last week I emaild BD and told them I'm getting tired of waiting and I'm considering cancelling my order.......


I didn't think they would let a person cancel the order unless they oversold. Heck I am a month overdue and had the chance to get a Felt DD but had to pass since I had already put my money down with BD.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Tonggi said:


> The wait is worth it. The colors are beautiful. My friends really dig the color a lot! What color did you get?


That is what I keep telling myself  One of the big reasons I got this frame over a Chinese carbon one is for the colors lol, I got the metal flake green frameset, I don't know exactly what it is going to look like as they only had a small paint sample- no frames with the color on it. I was torn between the green and the purple.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Luke000 said:


> That is what I keep telling myself  One of the big reasons I got this frame over a Chinese carbon one is for the colors lol, I got the metal flake green frameset, I don't know exactly what it is going to look like as they only had a small paint sample- no frames with the color on it. I was torn between the green and the purple.


I was torn between green, gold and orange. The paint has a sparkle in it. Like a pearl color. Its actually very nice. Not matte or single color but sparkling. I'm happy with my choice and agree on carbon frame, maybe in the future but life's too short for all black bikes!


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Bikes Direct via facebook:

WOOT - check these out - just #restocked #fatbikes smile emoticon
Warning- Extremely limited qtys. Refunds only if oversold:
Save Up To 60% Off Fat Bikes and Fat Mountain Bicycles from bikesdirect.com
Refresh your browser when you click through the bikes
#bikesdirect #motobecane #fatbike #mtbr #restock #instock #notmanyleft #fatwallet #slickdeals #bicycling #cycling #frostbike

Me: What about the Bullet Fat Bike Framesets and everyone else's pre-ordered fat bikes?

Bikes Direct: keep watching, these are trickling in


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## YpsiChickens (Feb 24, 2015)

*The Night Train Bullet has arrived!*







I received my 21" Motobecane Night Train Bullet on Thursday, after finding a set of pedals I hit Potowatomi Trail system and rode the groomed single track Crooked Lake loop near Ann Arbor, Michigan. I was too busy grinning from ear to ear to comment on performance. I love everything about the bike!


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

tonyride1 said:


> I did get an email yesterday saying it shipped but haven't seen movement on the UPS website yet. Here's the story. I ordered the 17.5" SB but in yellow only because that was the only color available at that size. So late last week I emaild BD and told them I'm getting tired of waiting and I'm considering cancelling my order. I know the shipping delay is not their fault but it's not fair to me since I've already paid for it. I also said that since they're getting some bikes in I will take any 17"-17.5" bike in any color, any model in the same price range if they have it. So Karla emailed me back saying they did get a 17.5" SB but in Gray if I want it. Natually I replied by with a YES and told her to send it right away. Gray was my first color of choice anyway. So yesterday I got an email from BD confirming the change with the same UPS tracking number as the one they sent for my yellow one. In that email they did say it can take up to 48 hours for UPS show movement.


When did you place your order and when was your original ship date confirmation (before all this port delay issues)?


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## YpsiChickens (Feb 24, 2015)

I received this shipping update on February 14th from Bikes Direct:

"Update on your order - A container with some Night Train Bullets and Sturgis Bullets arrived, FINALLY! Now, this container did not have the entire shipment on it so you happen to be one of the lucky ones who ordered early. Please enjoy your new bike but understand there are still many other customers who are still waiting patiently."

I had originally placed my order in November knowing that it would be February when I would receive the bike. It was not delayed as the website says shipping would take place in the first two weeks of February.


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## prescott_old_timer (Dec 30, 2014)

I received my NTB last week. The bike looks great and the shifting is awesome. One problem though. The front brake will not retract enough from the rotors to allow the wheel to spin freely. The brake pads will only retract .003" from the rotors. The calipers are adjusted as perfect as they can be and the rotors have only .002" of runout (warping). Bikes Direct has indicated I need to take the bike to a local bike shop to have them submit a warranty claim with SRAM. Not the best of customer service in my opinion.

RUN from these SRAM Guide RS brakesets. The quality control is hit or miss. Some work fine others have such bad fit/function that they are nothing but trouble. This is from personal experience and by the way SRAM will only deal with bicycle dealers on warranty issues. This forces you to spend extra $$$ on having the "Warrantied" brake replaced. I highly do not recommend this brake.

Would I purchase from Bikes Direct again, let see; pay $1500 upfront and wait 2-1/2 months for the bike to be delivered, defective components need to be address by a local bike shop vs. saving 50%. Yes, I probably would still purchase from BD. But now I know there may be extra expenses involved with the purchase to replace defective parts.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

have you tried pushing the pistons back? I've had this issue when my son pressed on the brake lever when my front wheel was off, hence, there was no rotor when the brake caliper compressed. All I had to do was push the pistons back in place with a closed end wrench.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

YpsiChickens said:


> I received this shipping update on February 14th from Bikes Direct:
> 
> "Update on your order - A container with some Night Train Bullets and Sturgis Bullets arrived, FINALLY! Now, this container did not have the entire shipment on it so you happen to be one of the lucky ones who ordered early. Please enjoy your new bike but understand there are still many other customers who are still waiting patiently."
> 
> I had originally placed my order in November knowing that it would be February when I would receive the bike. It was not delayed as the website says shipping would take place in the first two weeks of February.


If I'm not mistaken, the original ship dates for these bikes were from 1/23 - 2/16. My original ship date was 2/16 based on my email order confirmation. It's now passed that and my bike still hasn't shipped so it is delayed. Did your bike ship the same day they said it would?


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## prescott_old_timer (Dec 30, 2014)

2002 Sport said:


> have you tried pushing the pistons back? I've had this issue when my son pressed on the brake lever when my front wheel was off, hence, there was no rotor when the brake caliper compressed. All I had to do was push the pistons back in place with a closed end wrench.


2002 Sport, thank you for your input. I have done this just to be sure that was not the issue. The problem is that when the brake is engaged it presses the pads against the rotor and when it is released the pads retract only .003". In essence the brakes really do not retract at all. Talking to a SRAM tech, it may be the pistons gackets are just to tight and will not allow the pistons to retract. But SRAM will not deal with the public, so I will have to take the bike into a bike shop to have them submit the brake for warranty. After waiting 2-1/2 months for the bike to arrive, I now will have to wait even longer before I can ride it.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

2002 Sport said:


> have you tried pushing the pistons back? I've had this issue when my son pressed on the brake lever when my front wheel was off, hence, there was no rotor when the brake caliper compressed. All I had to do was push the pistons back in place with a closed end wrench.


Sure....it was your son that pressed the brake lever.

I did the same thing on some Hayes brakes (no child to blame on this one) and was also able to push the pistons back in with a closed end wrench. Free an easy try before dealing with the warranty LBS/BD headache.

^^^^^posted after your response, beat me to it. The SRAM guides are the main reason I got the Sturgis over the Nighttrain. I will never consider a SRAM brake an upgrade.


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## prescott_old_timer (Dec 30, 2014)

:madman::madmax::madman:All I want to do is ride.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Finally got movement on my bike. According to UPS my SB will arrive this Friday. Perfect weekend project.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

prescott_old_timer said:


> 2002 Sport, thank you for your input. I have done this just to be sure that was not the issue. The problem is that when the brake is engaged it presses the pads against the rotor and when it is released the pads retract only .003". In essence the brakes really do not retract at all. Talking to a SRAM tech, it may be the pistons gackets are just to tight and will not allow the pistons to retract. But SRAM will not deal with the public, so I will have to take the bike into a bike shop to have them submit the brake for warranty. After waiting 2-1/2 months for the bike to arrive, I now will have to wait even longer before I can ride it.


So it is stuck and wouldn't retract? I hope you get this resolved soon. Meantime, take off the rotor and ride with just a working rear brake, perhaps? 

Water monkey; that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Haha!


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

tonyride1 said:


> Finally got movement on my bike. According to UPS my SB will arrive this Friday. Perfect weekend project.


When did you order? What size and color?


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

2002 Sport said:


> When did you place your order and when was your original ship date confirmation (before all this port delay issues)?


I placed the order on January 22 and the original ship date was Feb.15-28.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

tonyride1 said:


> I placed the order on January 22 and the original ship date was Feb.15-28.


Damn! I ordered 3 days before you and also ended up with a yellow since they were out of the gray. Now, I can't switch back since I've already gotten some yellow stuff for the bike (that I don't even have).


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

prescott_old_timer said:


> :madman::madmax::madman:All I want to do is ride.


Then go ahead and ride it. It won't affect your warranty claim and I've seen cases where a brake loosened up after a bit of use. Put some stress on it, get it good and hot and see what happens. If that fixes it, you're way ahead of the game; if it doesn't, get it replaced under warranty. You have nothing to lose.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

prescott_old_timer said:


> 2002 Sport, thank you for your input. I have done this just to be sure that was not the issue. The problem is that when the brake is engaged it presses the pads against the rotor and when it is released the pads retract only .003". In essence the brakes really do not retract at all. Talking to a SRAM tech, it may be the pistons gackets are just to tight and will not allow the pistons to retract. But SRAM will not deal with the public, so I will have to take the bike into a bike shop to have them submit the brake for warranty. After waiting 2-1/2 months for the bike to arrive, I now will have to wait even longer before I can ride it.


If the pistons dont fully retract, slightly crack the bleed screw and give the lever a tiny squeek, tighten back up and see if it's better. Does the brake engage with very little pull? If so, you need to do this.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Techspec360 said:


> If the pistons dont fully retract, slightly crack the bleed screw and give the lever a tiny squeek, tighten back up and see if it's better. Does the brake engage with very little pull? If so, you need to do this.


Good point, it may just be slightly overfilled, especially if the lever feels really solid. This can also happen if there's air in the system, which would be indicated if the lever feels mushy.

Regardless, before cracking the bleeder, make sure the bike is oriented so that any fluid released cannot drip onto the pads. Attach a piece of tubing to the bleeder nipple, or at least hold a rag over it to catch any fluid. If you happen to have a bleeder block, remove the pads and install the block before releasing any fluid.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Well, there goes my weekend project. Just checked UPS and the new expected delivery date is Monday instead of Friday. The bright side, at least it's coming.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

prescott_old_timer said:


> 2002 Sport, thank you for your input. I have done this just to be sure that was not the issue. The problem is that when the brake is engaged it presses the pads against the rotor and when it is released the pads retract only .003". In essence the brakes really do not retract at all. Talking to a SRAM tech, it may be the pistons gackets are just to tight and will not allow the pistons to retract. But SRAM will not deal with the public, so I will have to take the bike into a bike shop to have them submit the brake for warranty. After waiting 2-1/2 months for the bike to arrive, I now will have to wait even longer before I can ride it.


My pads came not as tight as yours, but tight. I could never get them to not rub. The rubbing wasn't terrible though, and I hate opening up brakes, so here's what I did.
1. The jumble of mounting screws for these brakes is laughable. Instead of loosening, grabbing a fist of brake, then tightening, I had better luck holding the caliper where I wanted it and slowly tightening the bolts. The other way just allowed too much play in position when tightening the screws.
2. Went and rode. After a little burn in and pad wear the pads clear the rotor. After 400 miles I can take the wheels out and then replace them and hear no rubbing.
3. I tried pushing the pads out. I also flipped the bike upside down to try to get any bubbles to the caliper first. This didn't work. I think SRAM is overfilling the Guide brake reservoirs from the factory.
4 this is the type of thing that you are at a disadvantage at when buying mail order. This isn't a warranty issue, so BD doesn't have many options. 
Good luck!


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

*Derailleur hangers - how to ID 1st and 2nd gen hangers?*

I've received a replacement hanger from BD for the 2nd generation Sturgis Bullet I got a week and a half ago. The replacement is black (good). It has a 1 imprinted on the back of it. For those of you that have purchased/received replacement hangers, 1st gen and 2nd gen, do any of them have any markings? I'm just trying to figure out what one I received? I recollect that some of the replacements were silver. Thanks for the feedback.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> I've received a replacement hanger from BD for the 2nd generation Sturgis Bullet I got a week and a half ago. The replacement is black (good). It has a 1 imprinted on the back of it. For those of you that have purchased/received replacement hangers, 1st gen and 2nd gen, do any of them have any markings? I'm just trying to figure out what one I received? I recollect that some of the replacements were silver. Thanks for the feedback.


You are correct, the first replacement I purchased so I would have a spare was silver. I purchased a v.2 hanger and it is black and if I remember correctly it has a 2 on the back side. It is considerably thicker than the original hanger.


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## H.Seaward (Dec 18, 2010)

Less crying. More photos.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

^^ Nice scenery! Let's see... how 'bout this?! -










... and so far my Tektro brakes are good with a teensy bit of rub. I plan on dialing them in when the mercury rises some. And the derailleur hanger is holding up. I'm not sure which version came on my bike, but there was a pink (i think?) sticker on the bottom of the BB. Sometimes that indicates a mfgr's update. But it's hard to say what exactly unless if you speak to them or BD


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

H.Seaward said:


> Less crying. More photos.


^^^That wall of ice is pretty cool!
:blush: Er... I mean, interesting.

I got an email from BD yesterday. My 19" white SB is supposedly on the brown truck. Not many came along with it. I ordered in Nov. and they are going in order.

-F


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

mtb_fun said:


> You are correct, the first replacement I purchased so I would have a spare was silver. I purchased a v.2 hanger and it is black and if I remember correctly it has a 2 on the back side. It is considerably thicker than the original hanger.


Can you post a pic of them side by side?


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

I called bikes direct just a little while ago and they said it should be shipping out in the next 24 hours, they just got a few containers of bikes and they are in the process of receiving and sorting them. Lets hope this is real and my frameset (and all the other pre orders) ship today!


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Nice. But how were you able to get a contact # to call? I have lost my chance on some of the items they had available since every time I emailed (to switch my order), by the time they got back to me, the "last one" would already be gone.


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## Wyoming Shooter (May 15, 2014)

mtb_fun said:


> You are correct, the first replacement I purchased so I would have a spare was silver. I purchased a v.2 hanger and it is black and if I remember correctly it has a 2 on the back side. It is considerably thicker than the original hanger.


The replacement hanger I requested from BD arrived today. BD refers to it as "hanger 28". It s black and marked 1. FYI.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

2002 Sport said:


> Nice. But how were you able to get a contact # to call? I have lost my chance on some of the items they had available since every time I emailed (to switch my order), by the time they got back to me, the "last one" would already be gone.


904-249-2453


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Luke000 said:


> 904-249-2453


Ahh, that number. The one that's not supposed to answer anything other than take credit card orders over the phone...(Which BTW is always a voice mail that would state to leave a message for them to call me back)


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

2002 Sport said:


> Ahh, that number. The one that's not supposed to answer anything other than take credit card orders over the phone...(Which BTW is always a voice mail that would state to leave a message for them to call me back)


I called it and got a person right away who told me the info.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Looks like they did get some in since they listed some as available now on their FB page. I'm hoping my SB is in, too.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Update, I should get mine tomorrow. Weekend project is back on.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

*Photos of deraillure hangers*



GT_guy said:


> Can you post a pic of them side by side?


I did not remember correctly. The number on the back of the newre hanger is 1. Here are the two current types:


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

^ Thanks for posting those pics. I guess that would explain why I've had no troubles, even with an icy wipeout or 2 onto the derailleur side. Blk DH on mine.

I received my bike a little more than a week ago and BD sent it out around Feb 13. Also (but maybe unrelated) there is a red dot sticker on the underside of the BB.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Really tempted to switch my order to the Lurch Blutos they now have available. Can somebody remind me why I should stick to SB I've been waiting for? Knowing my luck, the second I call and switch orders, the SBs will start shipping.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

2002 Sport said:


> Really tempted to switch my order to the Lurch Blutos they now have available. Can somebody remind me why I should stick to SB I've been waiting for? Knowing my luck, the second I call and switch orders, the SBs will start shipping.


Both really nice bikes. Why'd you choose the Sturgis to begin with? Or didn't you know about the Lurch? Lurches are steel, not necessarily a bad thing, and have different sizing--more compact cockpit. Those are the biggest differences


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

AthleticAL said:


> Both really nice bikes. Why'd you choose the Sturgis to begin with? Or didn't you know about the Lurch? Lurches are steel, not necessarily a bad thing, and have different sizing--more compact cockpit. Those are the biggest differences


And weight... My Gen 1 non-Bluto Lurch weighed in at almost 40 lbs, out of the box. I don't imagine the Bluto makes it any lighter, though the rigid fork does weigh about 3.5 lbs, so maybe it doesn't add all that much. ;-)


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

On the truck for delivery. Told my wife to text me when it arrives. yeah!!


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

2002 Sport said:


> Really tempted to switch my order to the Lurch Blutos they now have available. Can somebody remind me why I should stick to SB I've been waiting for? Knowing my luck, the second I call and switch orders, the SBs will start shipping.


I have both. I did put a BLUTO on my 1st gen Lurch and did NOT like what it did to the geometry of the bike - immediately took it off and went back to rigid. Its a great bike - tons of fun, and I've rode the bejesus out of it.

That being said, I now have a Sturgis Bullet and gave the wife the Lurch. While I think that the Lurch geometry is a little better for snow riding, the Sturgis has it beat in every other factor that matters to me. The Sturgis will be my year round, go everywhere, ride everything, no matter what bike. 
Its lighter, has a much better trail geometry, and is flat out freakin fun.

If I had to choose between the two (and I love steel bikes, have custom steel frames from back in the day), it would be the Sturgis Bullet for me. If I had to stay rigid - well, that's another story. I think the Lurch would win in that one......but I don't have to stay rigid .


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Thanks for the replies. I did take a good look between the two before I pulled the trigger on the SB. It is nice to get confirmation from you guys as to why I chose this over the Lurch. Of course, it might be a different set of opinions if posted this on the Lurch forum.  It's just the WAIT I'm not good about...

On a good note; I was able to speak to someone at BD just now and she confirmed that all the containers they're waiting on had arrived and they're are just shipping/emailing preordered items in the order received. She said that I should see movement on my bike within a couple of days.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

2002 Sport said:


> Thanks for the replies. I did take a good look between the two before I pulled the trigger on the SB. It is nice to get confirmation from you guys as to why I chose this over the Lurch. It's just the WAIT I'm not good about...
> 
> On a good note; I was able to speak to someone at BD just now and she confirmed that all the containers they're waiting on had arrived and they're are just shipping/emailing preordered items in the order received. She said that I should see movement on my bike within a couple of days.


I made the same call two hours and was told the same thing. They said I should receive an email later today and my frameset will be picked up by UPS today..... We shall see if BD is telling us the truth or just blowing smoke still. I hope it is the first because I should receive it by Wednesday before my weekend trip 

Keep us updated if you (or anyone else) gets the good news email from BD!!


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Just got a text from my wife saying the bike showed up.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Luke000 said:


> Keep us updated if you (or anyone else) gets the good news email from BD!!


Will do.

Tonyride, please post pics of your medium SB when you get the chance.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

2002 Sport said:


> Will do.
> 
> Tonyride, please post pics of your medium SB when you get the chance.


I will when I get home. Can't wait to see if I got yellow or gray. LOL.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

My frameset was picked up by UPS!!! :yikes: After a month and a half of waiting, it has finally shipped! :crazy:


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Luke000 said:


> My frameset was picked up by UPS!!! :yikes: After a month and a half of waiting, it has finally shipped! :crazy:


Nice! Did you get an email notification from BD or just used the UPS tracking from the original email?


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

2002 Sport said:


> Nice! Did you get an email notification from BD or just used the UPS tracking from the original email?


I just used the original tracking number, no new email


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

*Metal flake gray Sturgis Bullet*

Before...


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

My frame is also on the way, though not in red as I originally ordered. They have 19" in silver, gold and green in stock now, so I switched mine to gold rather than waiting.

While I was on the phone with Carla at BD, I asked about derailleur hangers. She thought that the frame would have the "Gen 2" hanger, but couldn't say for certain. She said that they're waiting on a shipment of "Gen *3*" hangers, which they will be sending to every bike and frame owner at no charge. She didn't say what the difference was between Gen 2 and 3.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Bnystrom said:


> My frame is also on the way, though not in red as I originally ordered. They have 19" in silver, gold and green in stock now, so I switched mine to gold rather than waiting.
> 
> While I was on the phone with Carla at BD, I asked about derailleur hangers. She thought that the frame would have the "Gen 2" hanger, but couldn't say for certain. She said that they're waiting on a shipment of "Gen *3*" hangers, which they will be sending to every bike and frame owner at no charge. She didn't say what the difference was between Gen 2 and 3.


See post #1792. I took pics of the one that came stock and the replacement that came from BD and mtb_fun posted exactly what I had, down to the pencil and everything. The stock one that came on my 2nd generation Sturgis Bullet is just like the silver one (mine was black) and was definitely a first generation hanger (I bent it back in place by hand). The replacement hanger is thicker and has the #1 stamped on the back. My frame was boxed on 12/14/15, prior to the 2nd gen hangers being available.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Carla indicated that this batch of frames was "just made" and should have the Gen 2 hanger, but considering the port delays and such, I have to wonder if they weren't made around the same time as yours. I guess we'll see when it gets here next week. Either way, I'm sure it will be fine until the Gen 3 hangers arrive.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

*Sturgis Bullet*

Here she is. Got it yesterday and just assembled. Assembly was pretty easy and quick. The brakes rub a bit but I think after a ride or two will fix that. Shifting is spot on until the cables stretch a bit. Keeping it pretty much stock except for the grip for now. It came with the black derailleur hanger so I'm assuming that's the stronger one.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

According to Watermonkey, color (blk or silver) doesn't necessarily designate which you have. So I recommend checking to see if yours is a little thicker and has a spine built into it to thicken it up. The side-by-side picture a page back will help if you need to see the difference.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Well, I contaced Karla and told here I didn't get a spare hanger in the box so she's going to send me one. There was no damage to the bike at all and it shifted perfectly so the hanger is straight. New hanger or not on the bike I'm still getting a new one in the mail.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Nice bike, Tonyride. If you don't mind me asking, how tall are you and how does the fit feel on the bike? Specifically, the stem length.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

I'm 5'7" with 30" inseam and the stand over clearance is minimal with the 17.5" frame.


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

Nice lookin ride Tony! Love that color. I ordered a Lurch in Nov. and it arrives Tuesday. Pat has had a Boris since Nov. She loves it. The quaility /price equation makes it worth the wait.
Ed


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Just want to be clear before ordering a set of wheels for this bike. Is the rear a 12x197? I know it says 12x190 on their site but I dont think a 12x190 exists.


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

12x197.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

2002 Sport said:


> Nice bike, Tonyride. If you don't mind me asking, how tall are you and how does the fit feel on the bike? Specifically, the stem length.


I'm 5'7", 30in inseam in snow country and the fit on the small is perfect (I obsessed about getting the right size and it was a really tough call because I'd never owned a small frame). The snow up in the northeast is such that stepping off the beaten trail results in your foot sinking 2-3 feet into the snow. I've always ridden medium but I found the small to be really fun in this case (with the benefit of not slamming into the top tube). I actually swapped on a 75mm stem, race face carbon bars and a gravity dropper post. So fun on snow and sand.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Higgins17 said:


> I'm 5'7", 30in inseam in snow country and the fit on the small is perfect (I obsessed about getting the right size and it was a really tough call because I'd never owned a small frame). The snow up in the northeast is such that stepping off the beaten trail results in your foot sinking 2-3 feet into the snow. I've always ridden medium but I found the small to be really fun in this case (with the benefit of not slamming into the top tube). I actually swapped on a 75mm stem, race face carbon bars and a gravity dropper post. So fun on snow and sand.


Thanks for that. I'm about the same size and been thinking about picking up a Sturgis or Night Train this summer... Or maybe just the frame set. I keep thinking I should be riding the medium, cuz that's what I've always ridden, but the more I hear about sizing the less certain I am. I think it'll be a small for me!


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Negotiator50 said:


> Just want to be clear before ordering a set of wheels for this bike. Is the rear a 12x197? I know it says 12x190 on their site but I dont think a 12x190 exists.


12x190 _does_ exist, but it's a mongrel size found mainly on Chinese carbon frames that were built this size due apparently to a misunderstanding of fat bike hub standards.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Bnystrom said:


> 12x190 _does_ exist, but it's a mongrel size found mainly on Chinese carbon frames that were built this size due apparently to a misunderstanding of fat bike hub standards.


Got it thanks. I went with the 12x197 rear for the wheelset for my NTB. BD should really update their website.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

*Put a Bud and Lou on my Sturgis Bullet... WOW!*

I got tired of the front wheel washing out so I decided to try a Bud and Lou combo. I tried it out yesterday in about 8" of fresh powder over packed snow. I love it, much better control and much less tendency to was out. The Bud is not magic, but it is much better than the 60 tpi Showshoes. The Lou churns thru powder with authority.

I will use the Snowshoes for summer riding which they are fine for.


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

mtb_fun said:


> I got tired of the front wheel washing out so I decided to try a Bud and Lou combo. I tried it out yesterday in about 8" of fresh powder over packed snow. I love it, much better control and much less tendency to was out. The Bud is not magic, but it is much better than the 60 tpi Showshoes. The Lou churns thru powder with authority.
> 
> I will use the Snowshoes for summer riding which they are fine for.


Out of curiosity, what pressure are you running the Bud/Lou at to get through that powder. I find with my Bulldozers I can't get through the deeper stuff unless I'm down in the 1~2 psi range, which makes for a tough ride home, or a pump-stop to get them back up to trail pressure...


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

MaximumX said:


> Out of curiosity, what pressure are you running the Bud/Lou at to get through that powder. I find with my Bulldozers I can't get through the deeper stuff unless I'm down in the 1~2 psi range, which makes for a tough ride home, or a pump-stop to get them back up to trail pressure...


I was at 5 front and 7 back. I currently weigh about 235 so I don't run pressures as low as some do.


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Thanks. I'd like to try something with more grip in the deep, but I guess at this point I'll make do with the 'Dozers for what's left of winter and see what's new on the market next fall.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Maybe white is a less popular color and they are still clearing old stock, or maybe because I ordered back in Nov., but my SB did not have rear rack mounts. Not a big deal, but contrary to the info I received.

Drlr hanger looks new.

-F


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Hmm... I thought the preorder was to get as much order for the same batch of bikes since it's for the same period they are to be released no matter how early/late the buyers place their order? 

At least you have received your bike, though. I was told by Sofia at BD when I called Friday that they have received all that they're waiting on but I just checked my UPS tracking and still no movement on my bike. I ordered a medium SB in yellow. It's already passed the date they were supposed to have received everything.


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## Wyoming Shooter (May 15, 2014)

tonyride1 said:


> I'm 5'7" with 30" inseam and the stand over clearance is minimal with the 17.5" frame.


I'm 5'8" also with 30" inseam. My bike is the 15.5" Sturgis Bullet. I would not want a larger frame.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Wyoming Shooter said:


> I'm 5'8" also with 30" inseam. My bike is the 15.5" Sturgis Bullet. I would not want a larger frame.


I thought about getting the 15.5" but a friend of mine has the 17.5" and I rode it around the parking lot and that seemed fine. We both ride the same size "skinny" bikes so I used his as a guide.


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## Wyoming Shooter (May 15, 2014)

I am 5'8" with a 30" inseam. I just measured the stand over height and weight of my two bikes using a standard tape measure and digital bathroom scale:

Cannondale Scalpel 29er (Med alum frame w Shimano Saint Pedals)
SOH = 28.5" Weight = 31.8 lbs.

Motobecane Sturgis Bullet (Small frame w Shimano Saint Pedals)
SOH = 28.5" Weight = 36.4 lbs.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

tonyride1 said:


> I thought about getting the 15.5" but a friend of mine has the 17.5" and I rode it around the parking lot and that seemed fine. We both ride the same size "skinny" bikes so I used his as a guide.


Same height and inseam. I went with a medium. I like running shorter stems and I put a 60 on the NTB. Fits great for me.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Just got tracking number for the updated derailleur hanger.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Just checked my tracking again and it looks like my frame has been picked up for a SECOND time this morning...and it is now delayed until Thursday

:madman::madman:


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> Maybe white is a less popular color and they are still clearing old stock, or maybe because I ordered back in Nov., but my SB did not have rear rack mounts. Not a big deal, but contrary to the info I received.
> 
> Drlr hanger looks new.
> 
> -F


Oh well... no new drlr hanger.
Also, fork looks to be set at 80mm, but steering seems OK and BB height is OK. ???
I let the air out and re-pressurized, but it still looks short.







Are there older frames that have geo. to work with an 80mm fork? Mine was actually made in Sept. '14.

-F


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Luke000 said:


> Just checked my tracking again and it looks like my frame has been picked up for a SECOND time this morning...and it is now delayed until Thursday
> 
> :madman::madman:


I feel your pain. Hang in there, Luke. It'll get there soon enough.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

tonyride1 said:


> I feel your pain. Hang in there, Luke. It'll get there soon enough.


I sure hope so! I have a trip this weekend, leaving Friday AM, and i plan on riding my new fat bike!


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Fleas said:


> Oh well... no new drlr hanger.
> Also, fork looks to be set at 80mm, but steering seems OK and BB height is OK. ???
> I let the air out and re-pressurized, but it still looks short.
> 
> ...


I don't think that they revised the Sturgis/ Night Train actual frame geometry. The only changes have been brazed-on rack mounts and cable guides on the top tube and the tougher DH.

If your bike came with the old DH, contact BD and they should send out the #28 (new version) to you at no charge. So far I have had a great experience with their service. Otherwise they should be sending out a 3rd (and strongest) DH to all of us.

As far as your Bluto goes... weird


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

AthleticAL said:


> I don't think that they revised the Sturgis/ Night Train actual frame geometry. The only changes have been brazed-on rack mounts and cable guides on the top tube and the tougher DH.
> 
> If your bike came with the old DH, contact BD and they should send out the #28 (new version) to you at no charge. So far I have had a great experience with their service. Otherwise they should be sending out a 3rd (and strongest) DH to all of us.
> 
> As far as your Bluto goes... weird


Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but assuming your took the photo with no weight on the bike, then your fork is set to 100mm?
If it we're set to 80 then you'd be at -20% sag right now?!
If it is set to 100, I would take it! This thing is a tad to slack anyway!


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## McFat (Jan 11, 2015)

I emailed BD about no replacement derailleur hanger, and got one in the mail like 3 days later! Nice. Both mine are black, not sure what generation they are. Also set up my Tires as Ghetto tubeless last night, piece of Cake! I had never done it before but followed all the suggestions here and had it done in @ 2 Hrs, woke up this am and both still Full of air. I only have @ 20 miles on it thus far, there is a ton of snow on the ground here (Mass) and I really struggled on my ride. Every time I came of the hard pack, which was only about a foot wide, I dumped! and the snow next to the hard pack was soft and i sunk right in! still had a blast. At one point i came up on a hill where there was a bunch of kids sledding, I ripped down it, and even hit a small jump at the end. All the kids were hooting and hollering! I smiled for the next 5 miles!


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

McFat said:


> Every time I came of the hard pack, which was only about a foot wide, I dumped! and the snow next to the hard pack was soft and i sunk right in! still had a blast.


What pressure are you running at? lower pressure = better control in softer / messier snow.


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## McFat (Jan 11, 2015)

MaximumX said:


> What pressure are you running at? lower pressure = better control in softer / messier snow.


There is like 4 feet of snow!! So not sure it would have mattered, but I was @ 10 PSI both.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

tfinator said:


> Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but assuming your took the photo with no weight on the bike, then your fork is set to 100mm?
> If it we're set to 80 then you'd be at -20% sag right now?!
> If it is set to 100, I would take it! This thing is a tad to slack anyway!


Oops, yeah, 100. I was reading off where the sag ended up, not where it started.

That's what I was thinking. If it feels normal at 100mm, then 120 will make it flip-floppy at low speed.

The big problem is that they advertised a bike with a 120mm fork. So, either they didn't deliver (because I really wanted a 120mm hardtail, so that's what I paid for), or the bike is not designed around a 120mm fork but they spec'd one anyway. Which scenario is worse?

Still waiting for BD response.

On the good side, though, the wheels were nearly dead straight and dished correctly, and the drivetrain was almost right on the money. I like how the white frame looks, too.
Review to come later.

-F


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Fleas said:


> Oops, yeah, 100. I was reading off where the sag ended up, not where it started.
> 
> That's what I was thinking. If it feels normal at 100mm, then 120 will make it flip-floppy at low speed.
> 
> ...


I'd like to hear what they say. So long as it's just the wrong version of the fork, as apposed to it being a 120 w/ an issue, then it's likely not a big deal. I understand why you'd be a bit miffed though!


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

McFat said:


> There is like 4 feet of snow!! So not sure it would have mattered, but I was @ 10 PSI both.


Where in MA? I'm in the lowell area, and there are plenty of good places to ride right now 

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk 2


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Fleas said:


> Oops, yeah, 100. I was reading off where the sag ended up, not where it started.
> 
> That's what I was thinking. If it feels normal at 100mm, then 120 will make it flip-floppy at low speed.
> 
> ...


Whoa, I never even noticed that! They ARE spec'ing 100mm travel Blutos. Now I have to decide how I really feel about that. When I ordered, I knew that it was supposed to come equipped with a 120 Bluto. I remember thinking at the time that I might prefer to ride it lower in the travel if I didn't like the longer travel geometry (since I'm used to riding xc bikes with 100mm travel).


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

AthleticAL said:


> Whoa, I never even noticed that! They ARE spec'ing 100mm travel Blutos. Now I have to decide how I really feel about that. When I ordered, I knew that it was supposed to come equipped with a 120 Bluto. I remember thinking at the time that I might prefer to ride it lower in the travel if I didn't like the longer travel geometry (since I'm used to riding xc bikes with 100mm travel).


Wait hold on. Are you saying you also have one that's 100?
It got a first round NTB and it's definitely got a 120.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

tfinator said:


> Wait hold on. Are you saying you also have one that's 100?
> It got a first round NTB and it's definitely got a 120.


Same here. I would rather have the 100 since I can swap it into the carbon frame I am looking at without raising the Geo. Any idea if and how to convert the 120 to 100?


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## McFat (Jan 11, 2015)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> Where in MA? I'm in the lowell area, and there are plenty of good places to ride right now
> 
> Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk 2


Hey Dawg, I am in North Attleboro, I am brand new to the Snow thing, I have not yet made it to Foxboro but have heard that is good.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

0ae


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

twright205 said:


> 80 - 120 mm is the same fork, with different "Bottomless Tokens" installed:
> 
> https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign....to_reba_sm.pdf


The bottomless tokens don't change the travel on the fork. A new a sleeve is needed. I changed mine from 120 to 100. I added bottomed tokens so I could run a little lower pressure for my weight.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

trailwerks said:


> The bottomless tokens don't change the travel on the fork. A new a sleeve is needed. I changed mine from 120 to 100. I added bottomed tokens so I could run a little lower pressure for my weight.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Where can I get the sleeve from?


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

tfinator said:


> Wait hold on. Are you saying you also have one that's 100?
> It got a first round NTB and it's definitely got a 120.


Yup, most definitely. This fork is an 80/100 set up to 100. I wouldn't mind trying a 120 for comparison...


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Fresh snow and a day off for some antics


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Anyone else still waiting on their bike? I still show no UPS movement on my medium yellow SB that was supposed to have shipped back on 2/16/15. Very frustrating!


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## 2BrownDogs (Dec 15, 2014)

2002 Sport said:


> Anyone else still waiting on their bike? I still show no UPS movement on my medium yellow SB that was supposed to have shipped back on 2/16/15. Very frustrating!


I've got no word on mine even getting off the boat and I ordered early December.  When did you place your order?


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Did you guys try emailing them? Also, if you're willing to take a different color maybe they have received the same bike in a different color that they can send you right away. That's what I did. I had ordered yellow but they got a gray one so I took that instead of waiting. Also, gray was the original color I wanted anyway so it all worked out.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

I was on the phone with them Monday to double check info I was given the Friday before that all the containers they were waiting for came in. I was told that there was actually still one container that didn't come and my bike "should" be in that one. Apparently, they're expecting it this week. 
I also tried to switch it to any color available but was told they didn't have any more left.


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## fletchercole (Dec 2, 2014)

Hopefully that brook was not too deep!


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Frameset is now in Illinois- delayed due to weather :madmax: First they forgot to put it on the truck Friday after scanning it and now this. Someone does not want me to have my fat bike. :nonod:


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

I guess I'm keeping it... 100mm fork and all.

No real ride yet, but it feels pretty good.

-F

EDIT: even though this fork was new, turns out it had air trapped in the lower air chamber. Releasing that air from the Schraeder valve under the bolt on the lower air side caused the fork to pop right up to 120mm. Would adding air to the negative air chamber on purpose be viable way to change the travel without disassembling the fork? It seemed to be working fine at 100mm.


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Vinyl wrap?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

WSUPolar said:


> Vinyl wrap?


Yup. Looks good ... from a distance. 
I kinda rushed it- I didn't have a lot of material, and the whites matched perfectly, so I kinda hacked it together.

-F


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Good from far... Far from good. Works fine on a bike!! Nice work.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Fleas said:


> Yup. Looks good ... from a distance.
> I kinda rushed it- I didn't have a lot of material, and the whites matched perfectly, so I kinda hacked it together.
> 
> -F


So how does vinyl wrap work? I mean how does it stick to the paint? Static? Adhesive? Shrink wrap?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

tonyride1 said:


> So how does vinyl wrap work? I mean how does it stick to the paint? Static? Adhesive? Shrink wrap?


Adhesive. That's Mossy Oak, but there are literally 100's.

-F


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Where can I find them? eBay?


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

eBay: vinyl wrap (pattern or color)

when I was just looking I found the "StickerBomb" pattern to be pretty damn cool... A LOT over the top, just my fatbike style.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

So if you want to remove the wrap will it leave any residual adhesive or glue on the paint?


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

That totally depends on the quality/style you buy.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

tonyride1 said:


> So if you want to remove the wrap will it leave any residual adhesive or glue on the paint?


I once did a Niner MCR9 with RealTree Hardwoods + Green on every square inch.







I probably spent almost 10 hrs. (between beers and movies and cutting patterns and eventually just free-handing it), and most of a 3' x 5' sheet of vinyl. THAT one came out so good - even up close.
When the rear dropout cracked after 2-1/2 yrs. I had to remove the vinyl to get it re-welded and it came off easily without heat. It was easy to fix, too. Otherwise, the vinyl was extremely durable.








I was going to go with this for a Winter camo pattern:







...but the backlash would've been unbearable.:ihih:

There are also hydrographic dip kits, but I bet you'll waste a whole kit just learning how to do it on a bicycle. Plus, with vinyl, you can work around everything - maybe take off the wheels. and unstring a cable or 2.

Just look for "camo vinyl sheet" images and you'll get a million hits.

-F


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Cool. Thanks.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

This camo on your Motobecane Sturgis Bullet does look nice. Do you hunt with your fat bike?


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## Brett Williams (May 23, 2013)

*At last!*

Got it at last. The red much prettier in real life than the website. Assembled in 15 minutes. Gears and brakes required no adjustment. Looks like I have the older derailleur hanger - will have to get that worked out. Did a short test ride on the local hiking trail. Was more of a workout than I expected with all of the snow we have. Everything is as promised. Good job and thanks Bikesdirect!


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Fleas said:


> EDIT: even though this fork was new, turns out it had air trapped in the lower air chamber. Releasing that air from the Schraeder valve under the bolt on the lower air side caused the fork to pop right up to 120mm.  Would adding air to the negative air chamber on purpose be viable way to change the travel without disassembling the fork? It seemed to be working fine at 100mm.


This is an interesting thought. Anyone have any ideas on this?


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

FYI, for those that are waiting... my UPS tracking is now showing movement on my 17.5" yellow SB. I ordered 1/18.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

i ordered a 15.5" metal flake orange sturgis bullet frameset and sturgis wheelset on 13th Feb 2015.

the wheelset was delivered to my VA shipping add on the 23rd Feb 2015 while the frameset is on the way as per UPS notification. most likely it'll be delivered today 7th March 2015.

one good thing about the wheelset as it comes with the snow shoe 26x4.7" 120tpi tubeless ready tire which is around 1200 g. i beleive this is lighter than the snow shoe 26x4.5" 72tpi at 1450g.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

here's the photo of my wheelset


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## BenSizemore (Mar 7, 2015)

My NightTrain 19" is 36 pounds with no modifications or upgrades. Crank Bros Candy 2 pedals are included.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Some sizing info for ya'all. 

I just ordered a 15" Orange Night Train Bullet Frameset to replace my 17" black Night Train frame. I loved the black, but at 5' 9" and a 29/30 inseam with the bluto, there was no standover. I was flat footed, but certain parts of me had to shift left or right to be able to stand.

I will have a matte black frame and brand new Bluto fork for sale soon if anyone is interested. Total of 5 rides of one hour each on the setup. The 5th ride will be today. I know I won't be riding for a long time after that as the snow is all about to start melting in Chi-Town which means a muddy, no riding spring is upon us.

Tom


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

My 19" gold frameset arrived yesterday. The "gold" color is nothing like the paint chip they showed on the site originally. It's actually yellow with what appears to a clear topcoat with a subtle amount of metalflake in it. Although it's not what I was expecting, I think I actually like it better. Coincidentally, the color is almost identical to my girlfriend's 9Zero7 frame. I noticed that they now have a full size picture of the frame in this color. It appears from the photos that the orange frames have a similar type of finish.

The frame came with the "Gen 1" derailleur hanger, so I'll have to be careful with it until the "Gen 3" part shows up. 

I ordered the carbon fork yesterday, which I had planned to do all along. I'll hang onto the Bluto until I'm satisfied the the carbon fork is what I want. I figure I can sell the Bluto and recover most of the cost of the frameset.

The next step is to get some carbon wheels and a crank on the way from Yishunbike. If I really like riding this beast, I'll eventually upgrade it to a Next SL 2x crankset to widen the gearing range for summer use, but for the remainder of the winter, I figure an inexpensive 1x10 will suffice.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Negotiator50 said:


> This is an interesting thought. Anyone have any ideas on this?


You quoted from Fleas running the fork with extra air trapped in the negative chamber-

I can say from my experience that it can work, at least for a time. But the trouble is that the fork is letting air past the seals and into the negative chamber to begin with. Blutos don't like to operate well in the extreme cold. So for those like me that ride below zero, an aftermarket seal upgrade kit is probably the best way to go

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/12/16...r-seal-kit-for-rockshox-bluto-fat-bike-forks/

For now, I'm gonna contine to run it as if it really is set up as a 100mm travel and see how it does. It's getting warmer now, so the leaking *shouldn't* be a problem...


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

AthleticAL said:


> You quoted from Fleas running the fork with extra air trapped in the negative chamber-
> 
> I can say from my experience that it can work, at least for a time. But the trouble is that the fork is letting air past the seals and into the negative chamber to begin with. Blutos don't like to operate well in the extreme cold. So for those like me that ride below zero, an aftermarket seal upgrade kit is probably the best way to go
> 
> ...


Can you explain the process you use to get air into the negative chamber to reduce the travel to 100? I mainly want to try it to test out a 100mm fork to determine if I should spring for a new air shaft to properly reduce the travel.


----------



## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Negotiator50 said:


> Can you explain the process you use to get air into the negative chamber to reduce the travel to 100? I mainly want to try it to test out a 100mm fork to determine if I should spring for a new air shaft to properly reduce the travel.


In my case it happened due to seal leakage but you can remove a cap from the bottom of the "air" side (left leg as you sit on the bike) with the appropriate hex wrench that should reveal a Schraeder valve to which you can add air with a shock pump.


----------



## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

AthleticAL said:


> In my case it happened due to seal leakage but you can remove a cap from the bottom of the "air" side (left leg as you sit on the bike) with the appropriate hex wrench that should reveal a Schraeder valve to which you can add air with a shock pump.


The Solo Air design is supposed to fill both the positive and negative chambers from a single Schrader valve. How is that different than what was happening with your fork?


----------



## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Bnystrom said:


> The Solo Air design is supposed to fill both the positive and negative chambers from a single Schrader valve. How is that different than what was happening with your fork?


Yep. The Schraeder on top fills both chambers at once.

But my fork (and many others) failed to contain the air because the seals contracted in the cold. When that happens, air from the pos always winds up in the neg chamber and the fork sucks down and you lose travel.


----------



## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

AthleticAL said:


> You quoted from Fleas running the fork with extra air trapped in the negative chamber-
> 
> I can say from my experience that it can work, at least for a time. But the trouble is that the fork is letting air past the seals and into the negative chamber to begin with. Blutos don't like to operate well in the extreme cold. So for those like me that ride below zero, an aftermarket seal upgrade kit is probably the best way to go
> 
> ...





Negotiator50 said:


> Can you explain the process you use to get air into the negative chamber to reduce the travel to 100? I mainly want to try it to test out a 100mm fork to determine if I should spring for a new air shaft to properly reduce the travel.


My fork was, supposedly, a new fork. It hadn't even been outside yet. I do not know how it got air in the neg. chamber.

The neg. chamber Schraeder valve is recessed behind a bolt. I can't think of an air fitting that would allow you to add air to the chamber. You might be able to let the air out of the top, then extend the fork and depress the neg. chamber Schraeder valve. That should suck in some air in the neg. chamber, but with no specific amount.

-F


----------



## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

scottspark60 said:


> i ordered a 15.5" metal flake orange sturgis bullet frameset and sturgis wheelset on 13th Feb 2015.
> 
> the wheelset was delivered to my VA shipping add on the 23rd Feb 2015 while the frameset is on the way as per UPS notification. most likely it'll be delivered today 7th March 2015.
> 
> one good thing about the wheelset as it comes with the snow shoe 26x4.7" 120tpi tubeless ready tire which is around 1200 g. i beleive this is lighter than the snow shoe 26x4.5" 72tpi at 1450g.


FYI, the snowshoe XL 4.7 120tpi is 1600 grams.
http://fat-bike.com/2012/01/tire-weights-for-fat-bikes/


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Fleas said:


> My fork was, supposedly, a new fork. It hadn't even been outside yet. I do not know how it got air in the neg. chamber.


As I mentioned above, both chambers are filled when air is added through the top valve. I suspect that what was happening with AthleticAl's fork was that when it compressed while riding and the pressure in the upper chamber increased, some of that air was leaking into the lower chamber and becoming trapped there. It seems like the only logical explanation.

Assuming that this is true, this couldn't happen with a fork that hasn't been ridden, so there is probably nothing wrong with your fork. When I have an opportunity tonight, I'll check the fork that came with my frameset, which is still in the package, and report back.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Well on Thursday UPS dropped off a little present for me! Reading the box its said 21" Metal Flake Green- Just what I ordered! 

Then I opened it up and bulled out a BLACK frameset....

I called Bikesdirect and was told to email pictures of the box and the contents and about an hour later I got a call from the owner. He explained to me that the factory mixed the color wrong from the color code they picked out. And that all the "metal flake green" framesets that they got turned out to be black. After a half hour on the phone with the owner he agreed to send me a purple frame instead and is going to have UPS pick up my black frame.

My new frame should get to me on Wednesday or Thursday. I will post with an update when I get it. I wish I was able to get the green frame , but the purple was my 2nd choice. The frame I got had rack mounts, and what seemed to be a 1st gen hanger.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Just saying Hi... After last Friday's email that more bikes were in stock I ordered myself an XL Sturgis Bullet in red. I first went for the grey, than the white, both out of stock at checkout (same old story). Hoping to hear I bought a bike actually in stock, but I'm not holding my breath. 

Looks like a great bunch of people on this forum, I'm looking forward to adding some pics of this one in action soon.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

tfinator said:


> FYI, the snowshoe XL 4.7 120tpi is 1600 grams.
> Tire Weights for Fat-Bikes | FAT-BIKE.COM


oh really - i thought that it's just the snowshoe model and not the XL. anyway, thanks for pointing this out - i'll weigh it again once i replaced the stock tubes with the Q-tubes SL and the stock pvc rim strip with a reflective orange tape.

I haven't received my frameset yet - UPS tracking status says that its present location is now in TN on the way to VA.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

scottspark60 said:


> oh really - i thought that it's just the snowshoe model and not the XL. anyway, thanks for pointing this out - i'll weigh it again once i replaced the stock tubes with the Q-tubes SL and the stock pvc rim strip with a reflective orange tape.
> 
> I haven't received my frameset yet - UPS tracking status says that its present location is now in TN on the way to VA.


If your talking about the tires that come with the bike their the XLs. If you bought yours otherwise then maybe you're right. I don't know of a tire in the 4.7" range that's only 1200 grams though?


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Got the UPS update. My Stugis Bullet will be delivered this Wednesday!

Any tips, tricks or recommendations on a smoothe build?


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Dolbydarma said:


> Got the UPS update. My Stugis Bullet will be delivered this Wednesday!
> 
> Any tips, tricks or recommendations on a smoothe build?


Dropper post, short stem, studded Dillinger 5 in the snow, Bud/Lou or Bulldozer when dry.

I put a One Up 42 tooth on the cassette, it climbs like a pissed monkey...


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

JCHKeys said:


> Dropper post, short stem, studded Dillinger 5 in the snow, Bud/Lou or Bulldozer when dry.
> 
> I put a One Up 42 tooth on the cassette, it climbs like a pissed monkey...


This, minus the one up, add a carbon race face handlebar. Love it! I'd say that one up is important for 1x10 if in snow country!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Dropper Post - check
Shorter Stem - check

Tires - won't need studded, but looking forward to trying different tires for snow and summer seasons!

Pissed monkey... I'll see what I can do!!!!


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

talking about short stem - for my sturgis metal flake orange frameset with bluto fork - i purchased a 45mm funn strippa stem orange color to pair with my orange raceface atlas handlebar.

my saddle would be a fizik gobi xm kium black/flourescent orange and seatpost - thomson masterpiece.

for my drivetrain - i've read that an x9 crank (single chainring) will work with sturgis frame so i'm trying my luck on sram x5 crankset converted to 1x10 (30T raceface narrow wide chainring orange color) and perhaps a cheap 42T orange expanded cog for my sram pg1070 10spd cassette (17T to be removed). RD and shifters would be X9, chain kmc x10sl silver. brakes - magura MT2. grips - odi rogue lock-on with orange lock jaw.

the sturgis wheelset that i purchased will have some modifications i.e. - replace stock tubes with Q-tubes and stock pvc black rim strip to be replaced with reflective orange tape.

when the heavy vee rubber 4.7" snowshoe 72tpi are worn out - this will be replaced with a lighter snowshoe 4.7"120tpi or other light tire options. perhaps i'll try converting to tubeless.

by the way, according to the UPS tracking info. - my frameset will be delivered by end of the day (10Mar15)!


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Post some pics of that orange frame. Mine will be in tomorrow or the next day.


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## AllyTrash (Dec 28, 2014)

*She finally arrived!*

I just got my Night Train yesterday, ordered it on 12/24. It was a long wait but worth it. It arrived undamaged except for a kinked rear brake line. I was afraid it was compromised but it works fine. I will probably replace it at sometime but it's fine for now.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

AllyTrash said:


> I just got my Night Train yesterday, ordered it on 12/24. It was a long wait but worth it. It arrived undamaged except for a kinked rear brake line. I was afraid it was compromised but it works fine. I will probably replace it at sometime but it's fine for now.
> 
> View attachment 971649
> 
> ...


Nice. Glad you finally got it. Looks like yours didn't come with rear rack mounts.


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## AllyTrash (Dec 28, 2014)

tonyride1 said:


> Nice. Glad you finally got it. Looks like yours didn't come with rear rack mounts.


Yeah, I just noticed that. After reading some of the earlier posts I had my fingers crossed.
Not a huge disappointment but could have opened up some new doors.


----------



## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

*any close-up pics of the rear dropouts?*

Would someone be able to post a close-up of the rear dropouts?

I plan to occasionally pull a trailer as well as attach my WalkyDog attachment but not sure how the thru-axle will work with this type of mounting.

View attachment 971712


Originally, I was going to buy a Lurch but they didn't have the size in the color I wanted... so now I'm looking at the Sturgis. The Lurch had horizontal dropouts w/ a nice flat surface area for the above attachment to lay against... I'm worried the Sturgis/NightTrain frames may not accommodate.


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## Thompsonct80 (Mar 6, 2015)

Was thinking about buying the sturgis frame w/ bluto strictly for the bluto. Are there any takers here that might want to purchase the frame only?


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

A trailer with this mount wont work with the stock thru-axle. However, an option exists from the robert axle project. they make thru axles that have a bolt/nut on the non drive side for mounting accessories like this.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Thompsonct80 said:


> Was thinking about buying the sturgis frame w/ bluto strictly for the bluto. Are there any takers here that might want to purchase the frame only?


I bought a frame and will be selling the brand new Bluto. Send me a PM with your offer.


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

drmayer said:


> A trailer with this mount wont work with the stock thru-axle. However, an option exists from the robert axle project. they make thru axles that have a bolt/nut on the non drive side for mounting accessories like this.


Thanks drmayer... this is great! At least there's an option... I'll check them out


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Just got my 15.5" night train frame in. 4lbs 8oz for anyone keeping score.


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## AllyTrash (Dec 28, 2014)

pearsth said:


> Just got my 15.5" night train frame in. 4lbs 8oz for anyone keeping score.


Congrats! What color? Pics?


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Orange to replace my black 17".


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Who wants to buy a never used bluto and barely used matte black frame?


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## AllyTrash (Dec 28, 2014)

Nice! It's even got the new rack mounts. Beautiful color.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Bummer that there are not any pull lines in the frame to help route the cables.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Got mine today. My medium SB weighed in at 36.2 lbs out of the box (no pedals). I agree with the standover clearance being very minimal for a 5'9" person with a 30" inseam. It'll do but would've probably gone a size smaller had I known beforehand.


----------



## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

got my metal flake orange 15.5" sturgis bullet frameset yesterday.


----------



## RobertAxle142 (Mar 19, 2013)

Thanks for the mention. The RobertAxleProject.com is focused on providing solutions for those looking to attach trailers or cargo racks to 12mm thru-axle equipped bikes.

website.


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

Just placed my order for a yellow 15.5" Sturgis!
And I placed an order for a RobertAxleProject 12x197 axle (w/ 1.75mm thread) as well.

Now, the waiting game...


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

You'll probably get the axle before you get the bike.


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## BeastNik (Jan 17, 2014)

pearsth said:


> Who wants to buy a never used bluto and barely used matte black frame?


Intriguing if you're serious. Where you located? Was looking at an orange Sturgis but considering availability I may be interested. What do you want for frame w w/o Bluto?


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Thompsonct80 said:


> Was thinking about buying the sturgis frame w/ bluto strictly for the bluto. Are there any takers here that might want to purchase the frame only?


Funny, I did it for the opposite reason, to sell the Bluto and end up with a frame for short money. If my frameset hadn't already arrived, I'd take you up on your offer. My carbon fork will be here later today.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Just preordered a NTB last night; claimed to be shipping end of April!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

Bnystrom said:


> Funny, I did it for the opposite reason, to sell the Bluto and end up with a frame for short money. If my frameset hadn't already arrived, I'd take you up on your offer. My carbon fork will be here later today.


Sounds like a match made in heaven!


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

pearsth said:


> Orange to replace my black 17".


Nice I did the exact same move except I changed the cranks. Very happy with the bike!


----------



## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

*Arrived!*















Before and After Pictures!

38.0 lbs with pedals all in (based off bathroom scale) for my XL.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

pearsth said:


> Orange to replace my black 17".


Have you transferred the components to your orange frame yet? If so, was it a big difference in the standover?


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

*Two months later!*

I finally have my fat bike! After my pre-ordered green frame set showing up black, I was sent a 19" metal flake purple instead. It arrived Wednesday and I spent a little bit of today and yesterday slowly building it up at the shop. Just in time too because Monday all the snow here in Detroit melted.
My observations of the frame:
Pro's:
Beautiful finish
Not too heavy
Great looking welds
Nice tubing shape
Rack mounts
Dropper post routing on bottom of top tube
Decals on this one are straight (not so much on the black one)
Nice headset
Internal cable routing was easy to run

Cons:
1.Frame needed the drive side bottom bracket tapped, rack mounts needed tapping too.
2.Very poor front derailleur cable routing does not play well with shimano XT deraileur.
3.The frame is set up with 197x12mm rear spacing (good) but the rear hub that they send you if you buy the wheelset from them is 190X12 and you are supplied some spacers to fit between the frame and the hub. This is not cool IMO, must have been some mix up at the factorys over seas. Will probably make a tire change on the trail a PITA.

Neutral:
The paint is metallic purple NOT metal flake purple. Although very well done and visually great its not what was on the web site as far as description and color chip showed.

All-in-all, I am very happy to call this my new bike, I have not taken it for an off road ride yet and probably wont for a few weeks until things dry up from the snow melt or we get another snow fall.

Build specs:
Handle bars: Bontrager RXL riser bars- carbon
Stem: Race Face Atlas- de-anodized
Spacer: WiseCracker bottle opener
Grips: ESI Chunkys
Sifters: SLX
Front Derailleur: XT
Rear Derailleur: Deore Shadow+ (will be replacing with an XT shadow+ in the near future) 
Cassette: XT 11-36 10sp
Chain: KMC 10sp
Brakes: Hayes Stroker Grams with Jagwire hose and fitting kit.
Crankset: Surly OD with moonlander spacing
Pedals: Origin8 Slimline
Wheels/Tires: Bikes Direct HL80's set up tubeless with SnowShoe's
Seatpost: Gravity Light special edition
Saddle: Bontrager Evoke RL Ti rails

Here are some pictures: The color turned out WAY too blue in the picture as well as not nearly as sparkly as is in real life, the purple is a VERY rich purple that pops in the sun light.
PS: 19" fits me excellent and I am 6'2 with a 34" inseam, 21 frame was way too big.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

2002 Sport said:


> Have you transferred the components to your orange frame yet? If so, was it a big difference in the standover?


Yes, just finished. Gained about an inch of standover and the cockpit got a little smaller as well. Liked the bike before, love the bike now! So much more nimble.


----------



## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> My fork was, supposedly, a new fork. It hadn't even been outside yet. I do not know how it got air in the neg. chamber.
> 
> The neg. chamber Schraeder valve is recessed behind a bolt. I can't think of an air fitting that would allow you to add air to the chamber. *You might be able to let the air out of the top, then extend the fork and depress the neg. chamber Schraeder valve. That should suck in some air in the neg. chamber, but with no specific amount.*
> 
> -F


^^^ This did not work. The fork felt like it equalized normally when I pumped it up.

-F


----------



## Father Guzzi Obrian (May 31, 2014)

My Bluto 120mm was more like 80mm, pumped up the top to 150 to get full extension, then let the air out of the bottom, set the sag and all is good. I had so much air in the bottom, I could not pull the fork up with my friend helping me, it just sucked down, now it works as advertised.


----------



## Gibster (Jun 20, 2013)

In the process of stripping the bike and waiting for powdercoat I lost the screw/bolt that holds the rear derailleur on. Can someone tell me what size that was? A pic might help too. Thanks!


----------



## thunderzy (Jul 23, 2010)

pearsth said:


> Just got my 15.5" night train frame in. 4lbs 8oz for anyone keeping score.


How tall are you and what's your inseam and reach? My brother has a 17" and complains it feels too big. I keep telling him it's the frame size. He thinks its bc of the 120 fork.


----------



## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

thunderzy said:


> How tall are you and what's your inseam and reach? My brother has a 17" and complains it feels too big. I keep telling him it's the frame size. He thinks its bc of the 120 fork.


I'll say that the cockpit of the 15.5" NTB matches very closely to my 17" Ibis Tranny. It fits great. I'm 5'7"


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

thunderzy said:


> How tall are you and what's your inseam and reach? My brother has a 17" and complains it feels too big. I keep telling him it's the frame size. He thinks its bc of the 120 fork.


I am between 5 8 and 5 9, 29/30 inseam and 33/34 arm length. I haven't gone to the trouble to perfectly measure myself, so take those as ballparks.

I always rode a medium in 26er bikes - 17" frames. I converted over to 29ers and then a fat bike and kept buying 17" frames. The bikes were bigger, but I dealt with it and thought it was fine. Just no room between the boys and the top bar when flat footed.

Then, I bought my son a 13" frame Motobecane Fantom Pro 29er and hopped on and it felt great. It was about the same length as 15" and I knew that I had been buying bikes too big for what I liked.

They did kind of fit and would follow along on the shorter stem/longer top tube trend, but now that I have kept the longer stem on my shorter frame it better matches the xc/race geometry that I started on in the 90's.

All that being said, the 120MM bluto does make it taller than without. I only gained an inch of standover, but the shorter top tube and less wheelbase makes me like the bike much better.


----------



## FRANKENBIKE42 (Nov 24, 2008)

"3.The frame is set up with 197x12mm rear spacing (good) but the rear hub that they send you if you buy the wheelset from them is 190X12 and you are supplied some spacers to fit between the frame and the hub. This is not cool IMO, must have been some mix up at the factorys over seas. Will probably make a tire change on the trail a PITA."

Yes this is very much a PITA. I wonder if I can glue the spacers into the frame...


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

FRANKENBIKE42 said:


> Yes this is very much a PITA. I wonder if I can glue the spacers into the frame...


Then what do you do when you get a wheel set with proper 197mm hubs? If you're going to attach the spacers to anything, it should be to the hubs.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*My carbon fork arrived*

The BD carbon fork arrived yesterday and here are my initial observations:

It's painted gloss black, which wouldn't have been my first choice, but it looks nice on the yellow frame. The finish work is well done.

The only problem with it was some bad masking at the crown race seat. There was some leftover tape and a poor masking job left some paint on the steerer at the seat area. I scraped everything off and the crown race seated fine.

The top spacer of the FSA headset (supplied with the frame) is a *very* tight fit on the steerer tube. I could not push it all the way down by hand and had to use a crown race setting tool to tap it into place.

The steerer tube length is very generous. With the 25mm of spacers supplied with the headset and a stem in place, I'll still need to trim off more than 3".

The thru-axle uses a knurled nut that's not attached to the fork. While this makes the system reversible, it could possibly be lost in the field. I'll probably machine a groove in it for an O-ring that will hold it in the dropout.

I didn't weigh it before installing it, but I'll do so when I remove it to trim the steerer tube.


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## 2BrownDogs (Dec 15, 2014)

For those that recently received their Sturgis or Nighttrain, has anyone received the additional deralliuer hanger or did you have to beg them for one after the fact?


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

BD says that they are waiting for "Gen 3" hangers and will send them to everyone who's bought a bike or frame once they arrive. They have the "Gen 2" (#28) hangers in stock, but I was told I'd have to purchase one from the site.


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## Gibster (Jun 20, 2013)

Gibster said:


> In the process of stripping the bike and waiting for powdercoat I lost the screw/bolt that holds the rear derailleur on. Can someone tell me what size that was? A pic might help too. Thanks!


Disregard!


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

*First Day*

First day on the Sturgis Bullit! Loving it. Already completely crashed on a fun rocky downhill section. Flew off the bike, landed in a tree, fell out of the tree and got bloody on some rocks.

No big deal, except I also blew out rear tire, and my spare tube happened to already have a hole as well. So walk of shame back to the Jeep.








Here she lies upside down with no rear tire ?


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

So on my way home I bumped up my Ghetto Tubeless timeline and picked up the necessary items.


And here she is up and running again with a new rear ghetto tubeless set up"


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## fletchercole (Dec 2, 2014)

Where did you buy that neon yellow/green Gravity Light seat post?


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

Dolbydarma said:


> So on my way home I bumped up my Ghetto Tubeless timeline and picked up the necessary items.
> 
> And here she is up and running again with a new rear ghetto tubeless set up"


Looking good! Hope you didn't loose the little axle/frame chips when you were changing the flat haha.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Didnt lose any pieces, but damn those thru axles make things difficult. That's one more BIG reason for going ghetto.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

*Comparisons*

I thought I would pass on my comparisons to the Sturgis Bullet for anyone interested. I've ridden the Surly Pugsly, Surly Ice Cream Truck, Specialized Fatboy and Felt Double Double 30.

The Sturgis does not climb as well as the Pugsly, but it's much better on the steep and rocky downhills.

The Sturgis is much more nimble than the Ice Cream Truck. I really wasn't a fan of the Truck at all. Even though it was 3lbs lighter than the Pugs it just felt like a huge fat beast.

The Fatboy is very similar to the Sturgis in geometry, but when the Sturgis has the Bluto things change a bunch, much more slack fork on the Sturgis Bullet (which I think helps a ton for making the downhills so nice). But the Fatboy is about 4lbs lighter!

The Felt - this is my absolute favorite, but at $2k without a Bluto I couldn't cut it. It's only 32lbs and just feels so nimble and gives a ton of confidence. Again it has similar geometry to the Fatboy and Rigid Sturgis.

So in the end, the Sturgis does so many things for the money I can't see anything at its price fitting my needs as well. Love it!

By the way, these comparisons are based on single track riding on the dry. I plan on this bike being a year round bike for me, replacing my hard-tail 29r.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

fletchercole said:


> Where did you buy that neon yellow/green Gravity Light seat post?


Grabbed it up on an ebay auction for $13 shipped! They have some buy it now for around $25. Its a nice post for the money.


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Finished putting on the upgrades that I've collected over the past few months.
Bluto Fork
Race Face Turbine Crank and Bottom Bracket with 32 T NW sprocket
Azonic Pedals
Rock Shox Reverb Seat Post
Still have a set of Bud and Lou's to go on but I'm going to wait till next season with the lousy winter we had in Cali.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

livewr06 said:


> Finished putting on the upgrades that I've collected over the past few months.
> Bluto Fork
> Race Face Turbine Crank and Bottom Bracket with 32 T NW sprocket
> Azonic Pedals
> ...


Nice purple and green color combo!

May I ask what raceface turbine crank have you installed - is it the 170 or 190 rear spacing?


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

scottspark60 said:


> Nice purple and green color combo!
> 
> May I ask what raceface turbine crank have you installed - is it the 170 or 190 rear spacing?


Thanks
I got the 190 from Tree Fort Bikes


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

livewr06 said:


> Thanks
> I got the 190 from Tree Fort Bikes


Ok thanks.

i've read that rf turbine single chainring crank with 170 rear spacing will also work with strurgis/night train but with little chainstay clearance.

haven't build my bike yet and i have a sram x5 for 170 rear spacing to be set-up 1x10. hoping that it would work.


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## fletchercole (Dec 2, 2014)

does it have a 31.6mm diameter? If not, are there adapters one can use that allow for a smaller diameter seatpost with a 31.6mm downtube?


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

The chart on the BD webpages claim 30.9mm seatpost on the NTB.


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## fletchercole (Dec 2, 2014)

Thanks. I made the wrong assumption that the Night Train and Boris the Evil Brut would have the same diameter seatposts. My Boris is 31.6. Sadly, I can't find any yellow 31.6mm seatposts for sale on eBay.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

fletchercole said:


> does it have a 31.6mm diameter? If not, are there adapters one can use that allow for a smaller diameter seatpost with a 31.6mm downtube?


A shim. Go to your lbs or just search 'seat post shim' on the interwebs


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

I rode my bike into work yesterday and it was a blast! everything worked as it should but I still could not stop thinking about the front derailleur cable routing. I was about to buy a SRAM S3 mount, bottom pull derailleur but did not want to put that on my machine. So I cut up a brake noodle and re routed the cable through it and voila! It is a lot better feeling when I shift and it does not rub the cable stop any more before making a sharp turn.

Before:








After:








Excuse the dirt bike


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

*In its element!*








A great ride this morning!


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Command post and Selle San Marco Ponza saddle weigh less together than original post and saddle.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Luke000 said:


> I rode my bike into work yesterday and it was a blast! everything worked as it should but I still could not stop thinking about the front derailleur cable routing. I was about to buy a SRAM S3 mount, bottom pull derailleur but did not want to put that on my machine. So I cut up a brake noodle and re routed the cable through it and voila! It is a lot better feeling when I shift and it does not rub the cable stop any more before making a sharp turn.


Nicely done! If you tweak the curve of the noodle a bit, you'll eliminate the wear point where the cable exits and reduce the friction even more.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

livewr06 said:


> Finished putting on the upgrades that I've collected over the past few months.
> Bluto Fork
> Race Face Turbine Crank and Bottom Bracket with 32 T NW sprocket
> Azonic Pedals
> ...


Nice touch on the color match fork decals. I did the same but unfortunately, I ordered my decal set prior to receiving the bike so I ordered a different shade of yellow. I'd have to reorder the right one. Here's mine for now.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

I have to figure out how to change the orientation when uploading. Here's one upright..


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

pearsth said:


> Command post and Selle San Marco Ponza saddle weigh less together than original post and saddle.


that's great! may i ask - what is the total weight of your bike now?


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

scottspark60 said:


> that's great! may i ask - what is the total weight of your bike now?


34 lbs, 15oz


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

pearsth said:


> 34 lbs, 15oz


ok thanks - my sturgis metal flake orange 15.5" with bluto fork and the sturgis wheelset would probably on that weight range.

as i'll be using my fat bike for trail riding (we don't have snow in the philippines), i planned on replacing right away the stock vee snowshoe 4.7 72tpi tires with lightweight tires either kenda juggernaut pro 4" 120 tpi or schwalbe jumbo jim 4" liteskin 127tpi. maxxis mammoth 4" 120tpi is another option.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

scottspark60 said:


> ok thanks - my sturgis metal flake orange 15.5" with bluto fork and the sturgis wheelset would probably on that weight range.
> 
> as i'll be using my fat bike for trail riding (we don't have snow in the philippines), i planned on replacing right away the stock vee snowshoe 4.7 72tpi tires with lightweight tires either kenda juggernaut pro 4" 120 tpi or schwalbe jumbo jim 4" liteskin 127tpi. maxxis mammoth 4" 120tpi is another option.


Nice! Kababayan!


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

2002 Sport said:


> Nice! Kababayan!


Oh - it's nice to know that we have other pinoys here in the forum!

Cheers Kababayan!


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Got the DH in the mail. I was lazy to take out the one that came on bike for a better side-by-side comparison but here's a pic that'll give you an idea what the difference is between the two. Does anyone know if this is version 2 or 3? It looks mighty hefty already compared to the one that came on bike.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

2002 Sport said:


> Got DH in the mail. I was lazy to take out the one that came with the bike for comparison but here's a pic that'll give you an idea what the difference is between the two.


Is this one you ordered or is this the one they're sending out to all the NTB/ sturgis owners?


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Wow, big difference. I'll have to compare the one that came on the bike and the replacement one I got later in the mail.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

tfinator said:


> Is this one you ordered or is this the one they're sending out to all the NTB/ sturgis owners?


This is the one where you email them to let them know your bike didn't come with in the spare parts box. Although, I'm not sure if this is version #2 or #3


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

A quick PSA: I just developed an obnoxious creak/snap in the crank area that I thought might be from the pedals. A pedal swap eliminated that, so I delved into the bottom bracket. After peeling back the seals on the bearings, I found a yummy brown set of rollers. No amount of brake fluid would remove the gritty, notchy action on the drive side bearing. The other side was dirty, but rolled smooth, so I cleaned it and repacked it with grease. I swapped in an old cup on the drive side and ordered new bearings to swap into the stock cups. 

Just an FYI. Apparently these don't seal too well, so you might consider cleaning and repacking them, if you're up to it.


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## AllyTrash (Dec 28, 2014)

I got my bike a week ago and it didn't come with an extra dh so I emailed them. They did say that the version 3 haven't shipped yet but they will send those out when they get them to all Sturgis and night train buyers.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

AllMountin' said:


> I swapped in an old cup on the drive side and ordered new bearings to swap into the stock cups.


You didn't specify what you ordered for bearings, but I've had really good luck with Enduro bearings:

REAL WORLD CYCLING AFTERMARKET COMPONENTS, BEARINGS, & SEALS

They're specifically for bicycle applications, well sealed and packed with waterproof grease. Several hub manufacturers use them now.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

I also noticed that my rear hub did not have any spacers to make up for the 197 vs 190 rear clearance issue of the rear frame. I remember reading something like this here where one had spacers on their rear hub. Can any of the recently received SB/NTB owners chime in on this?


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## AllyTrash (Dec 28, 2014)

No spacers on the rear on my Night Train, only on the front.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Luke000 said:


> Before:
> View attachment 973074
> 
> 
> ...


Seems like you have a top-pull, top-swing FD. Mine is pulled directly from below the pinch bolt.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

2002 Sport said:


> I also noticed that my rear hub did not have any spacers to make up for the 197 vs 190 rear clearance issue of the rear frame. I remember reading something like this here where one had spacers on their rear hub. Can any of the recently received SB/NTB owners chime in on this?


No spacers on the rear of my Sturgis, just on the front for the Bluto.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

I have spacers at both ends on my SB


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

2002 Sport said:


> Seems like you have a top-pull, top-swing FD. Mine is pulled directly from below the pinch bolt.


Mine is set up this way as well.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

tonyride1 said:


> I have spacers at both ends on my SB


Tonyride, you're the one that also don't have the rear rack braze ons, correct?


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

2002 Sport said:


> Tonyride, you're the one that also don't have the rear rack braze ons, correct?


No. I do have them. See post #1811


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> View attachment 970085
> 
> 
> I guess I'm keeping it... 100mm fork and all.
> ...


Mine did not have the rear rack mounts like BD said it would (mfg. date was Sept. '14, purchased in Nov., shipped 3 months later). There are no rear axle spacers. The front ones seemed to stay on pretty tight after it was all clamped up. Still waiting for the new drlr hanger. I also think it steers kinda slow with the 120mm Bluto, but it's not horrible.
So far I'm pretty happy with it and just the general capabilities of a fatbike.

-F


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Fleas said:


> Mine did not have the rear rack mounts like BD said it would (mfg. date was Sept. '14, purchased in Nov., shipped 3 months later). There are no rear axle spacers. The front ones seemed to stay on pretty tight after it was all clamped up. Still waiting for the new drlr hanger. I also think it steers kinda slow with the 120mm Bluto, but it's not horrible.
> So far I'm pretty happy with it and just the general capabilities of a fatbike.
> 
> -F


Having fat tires with low air pressure will make it steer slower too.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I would like to purchase a quick-release seat clamp for the NTB. What size is correct? I know the seatpost is 30.9mm, but what is the OD?

Edit: 34.9mm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

WhiskeyJr said:


> I would like to purchase a quick-release seat clamp for the NTB. What size is correct? I know the seatpost is 30.9mm, but what is the OD?
> 
> Edit: 34.9mm.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I used the Salsa qr seatpost clamp. It works great.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Anyone know the reach numbers of the 17.5 Night Train Bullet / Sturgis? Their geo chart doesnt show it and I am trying to determine sizing.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

mtb_fun said:


> I used the Salsa qr seatpost clamp. It works great.


I ordered this one from Amazon, the picture shows the wrong size but I am hoping it will ship the right part.

https://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51h1dy7F8PL.jpg

Token Products Shark Tail Seat Clamp
$24.09

https://amzn.com/B00M6MXBRE

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## civicseth (Mar 16, 2015)

Could someone weigh the stock handlebars?


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

civicseth said:


> Could someone weigh the stock handlebars?


My Sturgis came in this afternoon...

The stock handlebar came in at 393.4g.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

cfanto said:


> My Sturgis came in this afternoon...
> 
> The stock handlebar came in at 393.4g.


Heavy and narrow (by today's standards)! I think they measured out at 685mm or so.

I dropped close to half a pound replacing bars, grips, and stem with a 720 mm carbon bar. I wasn't a huge fan of the sweep so it was also a fit decision for me!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

*Another Great Ride*

I honestly didn't buy this color to match my Jeep, but they do look good together.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

My Yishunbike wheels arrived in New York today, so hopefully it won't take long for them to travel the final 200 miles to NH. I'd really like to get the frameset built up for this weekend.


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## Brett Williams (May 23, 2013)

Does anyone know if it is possible to run an internally routed dropper seat-post?


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Brett Williams said:


> Does anyone know if it is possible to run an internally routed dropper seat-post?


I don't think it's possible. However, if you're converting to 1x10 then you can remove the internal front derailleur cable and run the dropper post cable through it's place.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Dolbydarma said:


> I honestly didn't buy this color to match my Jeep, but they do look good together.


i agree - the bike and jeep do look good together! nice red and black color!


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

scottspark60 said:


> i agree - the bike and jeep do look good together! nice red and black color!


thanks


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Another hub bites the dust. Rear Hub #2 and I'm out of the warranty phase. Anyone have similar experience. Around 70-90 miles a hub before getting destroyed.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Tonggi said:


> Another hub bites the dust. Rear Hub #2 and I'm out of the warranty phase. Anyone have similar experience. Around 70-90 miles a hub before getting destroyed.


Each hub failed the same?
How? I had started a thread about it , but I couldn't ID the hub (wasn't a BD bike)

-F


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Fleas said:


> Each hub failed the same?
> How? I had started a thread about it , but I couldn't ID the hub (wasn't a BD bike)
> 
> -F


Both rear hubs. First hub failed after 3 weeks. The stock novatec from the night train. They sent me a complete replacement wheel since the teeth on the shell cracked. That has been fine till yesterday. Cracked after about 80 miles. Maybe I'm too heavy for the bike, big tires and mostly pedaling.

I am debating going industry 9 or hope. I want the support of the big name in case it breaks again.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Tonggi said:


> Both rear hubs. First hub failed after 3 weeks. The stock novatec from the night train. They sent me a complete replacement wheel since the teeth on the shell cracked. That has been fine till yesterday. Cracked after about 80 miles. Maybe I'm too heavy for the bike, big tires and mostly pedaling.
> 
> I am debating going industry 9 or hope. I want the support of the big name in case it breaks again.


How long is the warranty period on these?


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

tfinator said:


> How long is the warranty period on these?


If I interpreted their site right. 30 days after receiving the bike. Afterwards it's up to the.manufacturer.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Most warranties only cover first replacement anyway. Check the fine print, the clause is probably in there. A company will pass this on to their supplier in a heartbeat and still claim to have clean hands. 

I can't tell you how many 2nd AC compressors that came back to the parts store I worked in were referred back to my desk. Those folks were never happy to learn what was and was not covered, and I found myself to be in the position to be required to tell them.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Tonggi said:


> Both rear hubs. First hub failed after 3 weeks. The stock novatec from the night train. They sent me a complete replacement wheel since the teeth on the shell cracked. That has been fine till yesterday. Cracked after about 80 miles. Maybe I'm too heavy for the bike, big tires and mostly pedaling.
> 
> I am debating going industry 9 or hope. I want the support of the big name in case it breaks again.


Are the rims worth saving, or is it better to build from scratch with a better hoop?


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Most warranties only cover first replacement anyway. Check the fine print, the clause is probably in there. A company will pass this on to their supplier in a heartbeat and still claim to have clean hands.
> 
> I can't tell you how many 2nd AC compressors that came back to the parts store I worked in were referred back to my desk. Those folks were never happy to learn what was and was not covered, and I found myself to be in the position to be required to tell them.


An excuse to buy an upgrade but for next season!


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

*Next Season??*

I hope you guys aren't putting these fat bikes away till winter! After riding my Sturgis with the Bluto the last two weeks I'm already planning on selling my hardtail 29r and my full suspension bike. This bike is way too fun on single track and bouncing through the rocks - this is definitely a year round riot!!!


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Unfortunately mine will be hibernating. Got a steel ht and am full squish plush dh bike I use all spring summer fall. Got the bullet purely for snow riding so I never have an excuse not yo ride!

Love to bike but also love variety.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Most warranties only cover first replacement anyway. Check the fine print, the clause is probably in there. A company will pass this on to their supplier in a heartbeat and still claim to have clean hands.


Motobecane may only cover the first replacement, but the hub in the new wheel is new and Novatec may cover it. Perhaps what you say about companies passing warranty claim information to suppliers is true in your industry, but I've never heard of that in the bike biz. Besides, it costs nothing to send an email to Novatec, so there's nothing to lose by asking. The worst they can say is "no". Who knows, they may have an upgraded hub available, if not free under warranty, perhaps at a reduced price.

That said, it seems odd that Tonggi has broken two of these. Ratchet ring failures seem unlikely, unless this is also a problem with their regular MTB hubs (I have no idea). There isn't anything about the wider fat bike hubs that should put any added stress on the ratchet mechanism. Tonggi, exactly how heavy are you?


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## civicseth (Mar 16, 2015)

Got my 15.5" Sturgis Bullet in today. Can't wait to get it out on the trails!


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

You could drill a hole into the seat tube, then run the dropper through the seat tube, out the seat tube hole, under the bottom bracket and then through the front derailleur internal routing. Warranty voided. I'm thinking of doing it anyway.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

beachbum1 said:


> You could drill a hole into the seat tube, then run the dropper through the seat tube, out the seat tube hole, under the bottom bracket and then through the front derailleur internal routing. Warranty voided. I'm thinking of doing it anyway.


 I wouldn't do that but that's just me. The risk is greater than the reward in my opinion. Water can get in through the hold and pool inside the BB. Unless of course you seal it with some silicone.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Bnystrom said:


> Motobecane may only cover the first replacement, but the hub in the new wheel is new and Novatec may cover it. Perhaps what you say about companies passing warranty claim information to suppliers is true in your industry, but I've never heard of that in the bike biz. Besides, it costs nothing to send an email to Novatec, so there's nothing to lose by asking. The worst they can say is "no". Who knows, they may have an upgraded hub available, if not free under warranty, perhaps at a reduced price.
> 
> That said, it seems odd that Tonggi has broken two of these. Ratchet ring failures seem unlikely, unless this is also a problem with their regular MTB hubs (I have no idea). There isn't anything about the wider fat bike hubs that should put any added stress on the ratchet mechanism. Tonggi, exactly how heavy are you?


A sexy 230-240 naked. Maybe 250 geared up. Winter husky weight.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Tonggi said:


> A sexy 230-240 naked. Maybe 250 geared up. Winter husky weight.


I have put 500 miles on my Sturgis bullet and am 245 and probably 260 geared up and haven't killed my hub yet... I carry a ton of gear because my son (10 YO) rides with me and I have spares and tools for both of us.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

What kind of conditions do you ride in? Dunno why mine broke twice now. Ive ridden primarily in cold wet/snow weather. Dunno if that has an issue with it


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

tonyride1 said:


> I wouldn't do that but that's just me. The risk is greater than the reward in my opinion. Water can get in through the hold and pool inside the BB. Unless of course you seal it with some silicone.


Wireless dropper posts are on the way.....

http://m.pinkbike.com/news/ks-electronic-wireless-dropper-post-first-look.html

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Wireless dropper posts are on the way.....
> 
> First Look: KS Electronic Wireless Dropper Post - Taipei Show 2014 - Pinkbike
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I want one NOW!!!


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

tonyride1 said:


> I want one NOW!!!


it looks cool but will probably cost more than my Sturgis... But the comments after the article are hilarious!


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Tonggi said:


> What kind of conditions do you ride in? Dunno why mine broke twice now. Ive ridden primarily in cold wet/snow weather. Dunno if that has an issue with it


It may, depending on the type of lubrication used in the freehub. If it's grease that gets stiff at cold temps, it could cause inconsistent/incomplete engagement. This would stress the pawls and the teeth on the ring gear, and whichever is weakest could fail. Switching to a synthetic grease or heavy oil should take care of that problem. Unfortunately, that doesn't help you with your current situation.

Regardless, I would still contact Motobecane and Novatec.


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

I placed an order for my 15.5" yellow Sturgis on Mar. 11th & just received it last Friday on the 20th. I had to call BD the following Monday (the 16th) as I had not received an email confirmation from them regarding receipt of my order. They confirmed it was in stock & wasn't sure why it was being held, but they shipped it that afternoon & I received the tracking information shortly after getting off the phone. After 4 days, the box arrived in good condition & was well packed. However, I didn't find a spare revised derailleur hanger that everyone was talking about. If I understand correctly, BD is supposed to be including them in the parts box? Based on the pics of the newer versions, it appears I have the 1st generation dh's, so I have an email out to them.

Here's the Sturgis built up OEM stock:
View attachment 975768

w/o pedals, the bike came in at 35.3lbs

I've since replaced the stock Vee Rubber tubes w/ Q-Tubes SL's (odd that they're stamped as Kenda's???). But eventually, I'd like to get some 120TPI tires to bring the rotational weight down a bit more. But just the tube swap alone dropped the weight by 650.2g (or 1.43lbs). Both Q-Tubes together came in at 464.6g vs the 1112.8g of the OEM Vee Rubber tubes.

Parts swapped in:
- seat (WTB PureV)
- seatpost (KS Dropzone)
- handlebar (Nashbar BlackOps, 740mm)
- grips (SRAM locking foam)
- stem (Spank Oozy, 75mm)
Note: the stock stem was surprising light at 129g
- brakes (Hayes Stroker Trails)
- rotors (Ashima Airotors, 203mm & 180mm)
- derailleur jockey (AEST alum., red)
- pedals (Canfield Bros. Crampons, red)

View attachment 975870


View attachment 975872


Most of the parts above were either spares or were taken off my Giant Reign for vanity's sake (ie: color scheme looked better on the Sturgis). Originally, I wanted to use my cheap $75 T-Mars dropper seatpost on the Sturgis but the way the cable came out of the remote just didn't jive with the handlebar layout. So the T-Mars is now on the Reign.

I know some have replaced the stock rim tape w/ duck tape... how much weight savings does it bring? (trying to see if it's worth the effort).

Anyways, as the bike stands, it's currently 34.6lbs (pedals incl). 
Prior to the Q-Tubes swap, the bike came in at 36lbs (w/ all the parts swapping).

Here's my kid... though he can barely touch his feet to the ground, he now wants a fat bike of his own.
View attachment 975794


So far, my only ride has been w/ the family on streets ... I can't wait to take 'er out on the trails!


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

*Burley Moose rack?*

I haven't seen anyone stick any sort of rear rack on their Sturgis/NightTrain, yet. Mine came with the rack mount braze-ons so I plan to do away with my seatpost-mounted "trail-a-bike" and go with a Burley Piccolo for more stability.

Just curious if there's even enough room for the 4.5" tires to clear the rack even after having to spread out the legs to accommodate the lower mounts on the Sturgis frame.

Is this doable on this frame or will I have to get a fat bike-specific rack (and then modify it for use with the Piccolo)?

View attachment 975900


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

cfanto said:


> I've since replaced the stock Vee Rubber tubes w/ Q-Tubes SL's (odd that they're stamped as Kenda's???). But eventually, I'd like to get some 120TPI tires to bring the rotational weight down a bit more. But just the tube swap alone dropped the weight by 650.2g (or 1.43lbs). Both Q-Tubes together came in at 464.6g vs the 1112.8g of the OEM Vee Rubber tubes.
> 
> View attachment 975794
> 
> ...


nice yellow color sturgis bullet and the kid loves it!

i bought the 15.5" orange sturgis frameset and wheelset only. i have already the q-tubes sl to replace the stock tubes. those snowshoe 26x4.7" (i read it's around 4.25" actual on 80mm rim) 72tpi is i guess around 1600grams each and i'm eyeing a schwalbe jumbo jim 26x4 127tpi or a kenda juggernaut 26x4.0 120tpi - which i understand are less than 1200g each. and yup - i read that those stock rim strips are heavy too so i'm gonna replace those with an orange decorative/adhesive tape 3" width.

my frameset and wheelset are still in VA for shipping to Manila by 1st week of April.


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## Luke000 (Jul 31, 2009)

2002 Sport said:


> Seems like you have a top-pull, top-swing FD. Mine is pulled directly from below the pinch bolt.
> View attachment 973726


Mine is a DUAL-pull, top swing FD. Shimano does nit make a dedicated bottom pull FD and I refuse to replace the XT FD with a sram one


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

My Topeak fat bike tire pump came in last night, its awesome. I highly recommend for all you Sturgis and NTB owners out there. It does about 1/4 psi per pump and the gauge is clear and accurate. 

While I was inflating, I noticed that my tires are visibly warn down. I have only had the Snowshoe 4.5s on for two rides. The trails were gravel/rocks, mud/dirt mix, but I was shocked at how much the Vee's were already tore up. Is this normal with the snowshoe tires? Does anyone know if the BullDozer tires wear down as quickly?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

JCHKeys said:


> My Topeak fat bike tire pump came in last night, its awesome. I highly recommend for all you Sturgis and NTB owners out there. It does about 1/4 psi per pump and the gauge is clear and accurate.
> 
> While I was inflating, I noticed that my tires are visibly warn down. I have only had the Snowshoe 4.5s on for two rides. The trails were gravel/rocks, mud/dirt mix, but I was shocked at how much the Vee's were already tore up. Is this normal with the snowshoe tires? Does anyone know if the BullDozer tires wear down as quickly?


That's weird. Take a photo and post it maybe? I have about 750 miles on mine. I haven't ridden anything but hard pack, rock, and single track. Tires are still good with loads of rolling resistance!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Has anyone taken these 4+" tires with Bluto fork and just plowed into a 5" cement curb? It's funny how these bikes work. Despite the weight penalty, they are very capable of riding through/over some really random obstacles.

-F


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

cfanto said:


> View attachment 975870
> 
> 
> View attachment 975872


Hey now! I got the same yellow/red scheme going too.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Here's mine.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Fleas said:


> Has anyone taken these 4+" tires with Bluto fork and just plowed into a 5" cement curb? It's funny how these bikes work. Despite the weight penalty, they are very capable of riding through/over some really random obstacles.
> 
> -F


Yes I have. And I also forgot that I lowered my tire pressure the day before testing it on loose gravel fire road. Hence,...... pinch flat on the rear stock thick tube on my 2nd ride (less than 5 miles total).


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Hi all - want to clarify the Sturgis/Nighttrain hanger info here.

No extra hangers are included in any of these current shipping bikes. Just one comes bolted to the frame. We'll call these Round1. These current bikes are all in the shipments that were enroute/held up by the west coast strikes.

Therefore, none of Round1 will have the updated hangers.

Right now, we have Stage2 hangers available for purchase - one per customer please.
Link here: Derailleur Hangers for Bicycles, Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, Hybrid, Comfort and More Save Up to 60% Off New Bikes

The updated hangers will be installed on the next round of bikes. Will call these Round2 
Everyone who got a Round1 Sturgis/Nighttrain will get FREE a Stage3 hanger when those are available.



cfanto said:


> However, I didn't find a spare revised derailleur hanger that everyone was talking about. If I understand correctly, BD is supposed to be including them in the parts box? Based on the pics of the newer versions, it appears I have the 1st generation dh's, so I have an email out to them.


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

2002 Sport said:


> Here's mine.
> 
> View attachment 976119


Nice! Where did you get the red/yellow Bluto decals?


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

scottspark60 said:


> nice yellow color sturgis bullet and the kid loves it!
> 
> i bought the 15.5" orange sturgis frameset and wheelset only. i have already the q-tubes sl to replace the stock tubes. those snowshoe 26x4.7" (i read it's around 4.25" actual on 80mm rim) 72tpi is i guess around 1600grams each and i'm eyeing a schwalbe jumbo jim 26x4 127tpi or a kenda juggernaut 26x4.0 120tpi - which i understand are less than 1200g each. and yup - i read that those stock rim strips are heavy too so i'm gonna replace those with an orange decorative/adhesive tape 3" width.
> 
> my frameset and wheelset are still in VA for shipping to Manila by 1st week of April.


I'm gonna have to research how those tires are on hardpack to loose-over-hardpack (I know most planned to primarily use their fat bikes for snow, but I'll probably end up riding mostly dirt). But it's nice to hear I can drop almost another 2lbs. w/ tire swaps.

Curious, how are the trails like in the PI? I may have to bring my bike w/ me the next time I visit family.


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

joebikesdirect said:


> Hi all - want to clarify the Sturgis/Nighttrain hanger info here.
> 
> No extra hangers are included in any of these current shipping bikes. Just one comes bolted to the frame. We'll call these Round1. These current bikes are all in the shipments that were enroute/held up by the west coast strikes.
> 
> ...


Thanks Joe! That sounds excellent! I'll go online & purchase a Stage2 for emergencies. As for the free Stage3 hangers, are you guys automatically sending them out to all Round1 owners or will we need to call in to request it?


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

cfanto said:


> Thanks Joe! That sounds excellent! I'll go online & purchase a Stage2 for emergencies. As for the free Stage3 hangers, are you guys automatically sending them out to all Round1 owners or will we need to call in to request it?


I'm thinking about ordering the Bullet Frameset, should I assume it will come with the 1st generation hanger. Is it the #28S2 hanger we need to order?


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Hi - yes- if you want a spare hanger. Get the 28S2 (#28 stage 2)

The Free Stage3 hangers will be sent out automatically to Round1 customers. No need to ask  We'll announce them going out on our facebook page and the newsletter / email alert 

Happy Riding!


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

joebikesdirect said:


> Hi - yes- if you want a spare hanger. Get the 28S2 (#28 stage 2)
> 
> The Free Stage3 hangers will be sent out automatically to Round1 customers. No need to ask  We'll announce them going out on our facebook page and the newsletter / email alert
> 
> Happy Riding!


And the bikes on pre-order right now will be sent out with stage 2 or stage 3?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Just to clarify Joe's clarification; I simply emailed BD short after I received my bike and told them didn't have the spare DH and they mailed me the #2 at NO cost. Which was good thing since the one that came on the bike bent already with just normal use -- meaning, no crashing or accidental bike falling.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

2002 Sport said:


> Just to clarify Joe's clarification; I simply emailed BD short after I received my bike and told them didn't have the spare DH and they mailed me the #2 at NO cost. Which was good thing since the one that came on the bike bent already with just normal use -- meaning, no crashing or accidental bike falling.


 Not sure about that situation. That might be due to internal mis-com. Currently- Hangers are given out only if bikes arrive with hanger issues.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

cfanto said:


> Nice! Where did you get the red/yellow Bluto decals?


eBay. Search up Bluto decal. $13 shipped to your door.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

joebikesdirect said:


> Not sure about that situation. That might be due to internal mis-com. Currently- Hangers are given out only if bikes arrive with hanger issues.


That is the issue, Joe. The DH that come with the round 1s is easily bent.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

*Creaky Bottom Bracket*

After just 5 rides on my Sturgis I started getting a pretty good creek in my bottom bracket. I brought it to my local shop to have it looked at. Apparently only one side of the bracket was "faced" and quite a bit of crap was getting in. $40 bucks later and we're all good.

Just an FYI for those out there getting a little more noise than they hoped for.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

*Official Tubeless Weight*

Since I was picking my bike back up from the shop I had them weigh it for me with a real scale now that it's Ghetto Tubeless front and back:

XL Sturgis Bullet (dirty) now comes in at 36.3 lbs!

That's almost a two pound saving going ghetto! And it only cost about $40.00 to do and an hour of my time.


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## FRANKENBIKE42 (Nov 24, 2008)

First time on snow!

Grape Fanta by Xtri Steve, on Flickr

Converted to tubeless this afternoon and lost 3lbs.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

2002 Sport said:


> That is the issue, Joe. The DH that come with the round 1s is easily bent.


He knows that. He's saying you calling and getting one sent to you is not normal, or not current standard practice.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

2002 Sport said:


> eBay. Search up Bluto decal. $13 shipped to your door.


Did you take off the old decals or just put these over?


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

tfinator said:


> He knows that. He's saying you calling and getting one sent to you is not normal, or not current standard practice.


I know what he's saying, tfinator. No need for your mediation. Someone on here advised to call even before our batch of SBs and NTBs arrived as they are not shipping these bikes with the updated (#2) DH. So I called Karla @ BD to request for the updated one before my bike arrived. She, herself told me that the factory was supposed to include the extra DH in the accessory box. But since mine, at the time hadn't arrived yet, she told me to just send an email if I didn't get it with my bike. That's what I did. AND.... That's all I said on my reply above. Which, btw, is contrary of what Joe said.

And now,... Back to the regularly scheduled program.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*Yishunbike wheels, crankset, tires and tubes*

I received the parts I ordered from Yishunbike for my frameset build. It took a week from the time they were shipped. Here are weights and some comments:

*Wheels:* 85mm carbon rims, 150/15 front, 197/12 rear
Front: 1078
Rear:	1208
The wheels were tight, true and they were very easy to set up tubeless. I mounted Snowshoes on them for now but will try the tires below at some point.

*Tires:* Chao Yang 4.9" (same as Panaracer Fat B Nimble)
1304, 1312
I haven't mounted these yet, but will report back when I do.

*Tubes:* Chao Yang 4.0 - 4.6"
466, 470
These are just for emergencies, as I'm running tubeless

*Crankset: *(FIRST Bicycle Components, 1x, 30t wide/narrow chainring) 
Bottom bracket: 498 (cups 182, spindle 274, bolts 42)
Crankarms: 666

There were no instruction with the crankset, so setting up the bottom bracket spacers was trial and error. My first attempt with the thick spacer on the drive side and the two thinner ones on the non-drive side yielded a perfect chainline (lucky me). I needed another very thin spacer to eliminate binding in the BB bearings.

There are two pedal washers in with the crank bolts. These could easily be misconstrued as being for the crank bolts.

The bottom bracket cups were scratched and there was a small amount of thread damage. This is because the cups and spindle were in the same bag and the spindle damaged the cups. They should either be in separate bags or they should be wrapped in foam. I mentioned this to Yishun and they will change their packaging.

The crank arms must be driven on with a rubber mallet or the bolt threads will not engage the spindle. Once they're on, everything works fine.

Overall, I'm very pleased with the merchandise. This is my second order from Yishunbike and I won't hesitate to order from them again.

The bike is built and I'll post the specs and some pics shortly. Even with the hefty crank, it came in at just over 27 pounds (with the carbon fork, not the Bluto).


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Just out of curiosity, anyone running their fat bike bone stock? I'm talking out of the box, slap the wheels and handle bar on, and off to the trails.


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

Tony -- I rode my Boris stock for the first few rides. I changed out my handlebars to make give them a little rise and make them wider (plus I had them in the garage from the wife's Giant Trance). I then changed out my tires for the snow, but I intend on going back to the stock tires for dirt.

If you are like me and intend on using this as a winter bike that gives you a great workout in a shorter amount of time, then the weight shouldn't be a concern for you. I don't really intend on making it much lighter (maybe switch out the heavy tubes when I change my tires back), as it rides very well for me and meets my requirements it's "almost" stock configuration. 

BTW, I intend on using the "heavy stock tubes" for my winter riding. Who the heck wants to change flats in 15 degree weather?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

2002 Sport said:


> And now,... Back to the regularly scheduled program.


You made the issue more confusing- we got information straight from the horse's mouth- no need to clarify. 
Chillllllll oooooooout.


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Okay... Went ahead and ordered the Bluto frameset. Really liked the purple, but ended up ordering the gold, as it will likely not be noticed when it replaces the yellow Lurch in the garage.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

I have been riding my large Sturgis bullet since early Decemeber.. stock...have been having a blast. I have a Pug set up with floaters, and did a comparison ride in December when we only had about 4 inches of snow on the ground. no real noticeable difference between the floaters and stock snowshoes ( in those particular conditions....).. since then I have tossed grip studs on the snowshoes, and have enjoyed a trouble free bluto...
I have went down probably a half a dozen times,, and so far no issue with the first gen. DR hanger... although I did go ahead and purchase another for a just in case....

. I don't have an accurate weight on it, but I think 36 lbs. is likely.... changing out bar, seat post, seat, and tubes or going tubeless . I am sure there are close to 3 lbs. easy to spare... 

I anticipate a weekend of crust riding.... which I feel is downright magical ..... you can roll the whole forest floor.... hope you all get to taste some...


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

tonyride1 said:


> Just out of curiosity, anyone running their fat bike bone stock? I'm talking out of the box, slap the wheels and handle bar on, and off to the trails.


Truly, truly, truly stock? No.

But pretty close. I swapped the stock tubes out for lightweight tubes. That's it. Do I get a prize? 

I have carbon bars, and I'll swap them on eventually. I also bought a Chinese carbon stem, but I made the mistake of buying it shorter than the stock stem length. As it turns out, the stock stem length on the size L is perfect. So I'm not going to mess with that swap for the sake of a teensy bit of weight savings.

Edit: Gah. I lied. Forgot I also swapped out the seat after less than 100 miles of use taught me that I wasn't going to get along with the original... and I put pedals on since I thought they would help me make the bike go


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

tfinator said:


> You made the issue more confusing- we got information straight from the horse's mouth- no need to clarify.
> Chillllllll oooooooout.


Confusing? Okay, I'll make it simple for ya -- pay or don't pay (for a part that should've been on the bike in the first place).


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

27lbs! I know the Bluto adds almost 3lbs, but that still means you dropped 6lbs from my tubeless set up! I know the stock wheels and tires are heavy but that's a crazy improvement. Impressive.



Bnystrom said:


> I received the parts I ordered from Yishunbike for my frameset build. It took a week from the time they were shipped. Here are weights and some comments:
> 
> *Wheels:* 85mm carbon rims, 150/15 front, 197/12 rear
> Front: 1078
> ...


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

That was a mistake. Nobody is supposed to get a free extra der hanger with their bike or frameset.



2002 Sport said:


> I know what he's saying, tfinator. No need for your mediation. Someone on here advised to call even before our batch of SBs and NTBs arrived as they are not shipping these bikes with the updated (#2) DH. So I called Karla @ BD to request for the updated one before my bike arrived. She, herself told me that the factory was supposed to include the extra DH in the accessory box. But since mine, at the time hadn't arrived yet, she told me to just send an email if I didn't get it with my bike. That's what I did. AND.... That's all I said on my reply above. Which, btw, is contrary of what Joe said.
> 
> And now,... Back to the regularly scheduled program.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

joebikesdirect said:


> That was a mistake. Nobody is supposed to get a free extra der hanger with their bike or frameset.


I'd rather call it good customer service than a mistake. If one's product is documented to be defective, and they are willing to correct it, I'm all for it. Like I previously stated, mine bent just from normal use, I'm glad I received and already had the better one when it happened.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

The biggest thing is the wheels, or more specifically the carbon rims. While they aren't cheap, they can save as much as a pound apiece compared to some aluminum rims and are easily run tubeless, which saves 2-3 pounds compared to typical tube setups.

This is pretty funny to me, since I'm coming primarily from a road background where we're typically counting _grams_, not _pounds _of weight savings.

Here are the complete specs for the bike:

*Frame*: Motobecane Night Train, 19"
*Fork*: Motobecane Carbon
*Wheels*: Yishunbike, 85mm carbon rims, generic hubs, 150/15 front, 197/12 rear
*Thru axles*: Motobecane, supplied with frame and fork
*Tires*: Snowshoe 4.7 (they measure a little over 4" @ 6 psi)
*Tubes*: None, tubeless with generic plastic tape and Stan's sealant
*Cassette*: SRAM 1070, 11-32
*Crankset*: FIRST Cycling Components, 1x, 30t, 175mm arms
*Bottom Bracket*: FIRST Cycling Components, spline type, non-integrated
*Pedals*: Crank Brothers Eggbeater 3
*Front Derailleur*: None
*Rear Derailleur*: SRAM XO, medium cage
*Shifters*: SRAM XX, rear only, with supplied Gore cable
*Chain*: KMC X10SL
*Brakes*: SRAM XX
*Seatpost*: Thomson Elite
*Saddle*: Prologo Zero II PAS (test model with heavy steel frame)
*Handlebar*: Easton EC70 flat, 610mm
*Stem*: FSA (mid-priced MTB stem)
*Cap & Expander*: Kore
*Grips*: ESI Extra Chunky silicone

My plan is to eventually switch to a RaceFace Next SL crankset, 22x36 and add an XO front derailleur and XX front shifter (I already have the SRAM parts), in order to expand the gearing range and versatility of the bike for year-round use. I should be able to replace the hefty FIRST crankset and BB with these 2x components and still save some weight.

I know some people will object to the narrow bars, but wide bars simply don't fit between the trees on some of the trails I ride. I never ride without clipless pedals and use Eggbeaters on all of my off-road bikes.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

2002 Sport said:


> I'd rather call it good customer service than a mistake. If one's product is documented to be defective, and they are willing to correct it, I'm all for it. Like I previously stated, mine bent just from normal use, I'm glad I received and already had the better one when it happened.


Duuuuuuuude, let it go! Someone made an exception for you. We're happy you're riding, but past that it's not helpful!


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Bnystrom said:


> I know some people will object to the narrow bars, but wide bars simply don't fit between the trees on some of the trails I ride. I never ride without clipless pedals and use Eggbeaters on all of my off-road bikes.


Ha, was going to comment but I see you headed me off at the pass.
Seems like a sweet set up. Mine is similar but with stock group (changed to 1x10 though).
Down to 29#, but I'll likely put some fat b nimble on as the last change.
Did I miss pics?!?!!?


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## civicseth (Mar 16, 2015)

My seat post is entirely too high. Are you all having to cut yours to get to the right height?


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

No, I haven't posted any yet. We'll get out in the woods tomorrow and I'll shoot a few.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

civicseth said:


> My seat post is entirely too high. Are you all having to cut yours to get to the right height?


I'm tall and shouldn't cut but maybe an inch off, hardly worth it for me. If you don't need the height, cut some off if you want to. Just be careful that there's still plenty enough left for going down the seat tube or else you'll one day regret the harm you cause to yourself and/or the frame.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Broke the RD Hanger today... Ugh. While I was resting my bike slipped off the tree it was leaning on and fell over. Yep, that's all it took.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Bnystrom said:


> The biggest thing is the wheels, or more specifically the carbon rims. While they aren't cheap, they can save as much as a pound apiece compared to some aluminum rims and are easily run tubeless, which saves 2-3 pounds compared to typical tube setups.
> 
> This is pretty funny to me, since I'm coming primarily from a road background where we're typically counting _grams_, not _pounds _of weight savings.
> 
> ...


Why would you even bother with the Moto frame instead of a Chinese Carbon? How did u even get one without a bluto?


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

pearsth said:


> Why would you even bother with the Moto frame instead of a Chinese Carbon? How did u even get one without a bluto?


My girlfriend ordered this for me before I found good deals on Chinese carbon frames (like Yishunbike's full package). Otherwise, I may have gone that route, but there are still a issues with mongrel frame/wheel setups (like 190mm thru axle or 197mm rear with a 135mm fork) and a few other things that may have caused me to wait for that market to mature a bit before taking the plunge. I may ultimately get a frame, as they're ~2 pounds lighter than the Motobecane frame.

I ordered the Moto frame with the Bluto, with the intention of selling the fork. I'm used to riding MTBs with 4" of suspension, so I don't see any need for a suspension fork on a bike with 4-5" of "suspension" built into the tires, but we'll see when I get it into the woods.

Depending on how much I get for the Bluto, I figure the frame will end up costing me around 100 bucks, plus another $200 for the carbon fork, which is a pretty sweet deal. I'll be hitting the woods on it for the first time today and if I like the feel with the carbon fork, the Bluto will be going on Craigslist shortly.

This is sort of the same philosophy I had for buying the Fly Team Ti 29er; for the price, it's basically a nice build kit that comes with a free Ti frame. I figured that if I didn't like the frame, I could sell it, buy a better frame and still be ahead of the game compared to the prices of name-brand bikes. Fortunately, I'm quite happy with Ti frame.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Bnystrom said:


> My girlfriend ordered this for me before I found good deals on Chinese carbon frames (like Yishunbike's full package). Otherwise, I may have gone that route, but there are still a issues with mongrel frame/wheel setups (like 190mm thru axle or 197mm rear with a 135mm fork) and a few other things that may have caused me to wait for that market to mature a bit before taking the plunge. I may ultimately get a frame, as they're ~2 pounds lighter than the Motobecane frame.
> 
> I ordered the Moto frame with the Bluto, with the intention of selling the fork. I'm used to riding MTBs with 4" of suspension, so I don't see any need for a suspension fork on a bike with 4-5" of "suspension" built into the tires, but we'll see when I get it into the woods.
> 
> ...


If you already know you like riding rigid, then do your thing.
Just to pay devil's advocate though:
4.7" vee rubber measures less than 4.7"
To have them at a pressure that eliminates self steer and isn't super floppy in the turns, you'll likely be getting 2" of "suspension".
So it'll be more like having a 50mm headshock.
A rigid bike is still rigid. 
If you know what you like then great, I'm just saying you might want to try it both ways if you haven't already. Regardless, great build- enjoy!


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

You'll want to keep the bluto. Fat tires "bounce" too much over roots and rocks. If you're used to running suspension, you'll be disappointed with what the tires do by themselves. I ran a rigid Pugsley last summer and hated it as a summer trail bike for the reasons mentioned above. Got the sturgis with bluto this year and it's much more fun to ride.


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## McFat (Jan 11, 2015)

So far so good,I really like this Bike!! I am new to Mt Biking after taking off @ 10 years, (and 20 LBS). But really liking this bike, I am however now getting alot of "skips in the rear derailleur, so back to the stand. Anyway I just wanted to chime in! So far my Mods are:
New Stem, Handle Bars, seat Post, and also went ghetto tubeless with Reflective tape. No idea what it weighs, I weigh 220 so not sure dropping a few grams from the Bike will matter! Got 10 miles in today, trails are right outside my house,where the snow was still deep, was tough going , did some walking...
Here is a Pic


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

tfinator said:


> If you already know you like riding rigid, then do your thing.
> Just to pay devil's advocate though:
> 4.7" vee rubber measures less than 4.7"
> To have them at a pressure that eliminates self steer and isn't super floppy in the turns, you'll likely be getting 2" of "suspension".
> ...


For the record, on 85mm rims the Snowshoe 4.7s measure ~4 1/8". It makes me wonder if when the engineers sent the specs to production, someone mistook a "2" for a "7".

The self steer with these is pretty bad on pavement, but it's not much of a factor on soft surfaces (as expected). I started out at 8 psi and gradually started lowering it, ultimately stopping at 5 front and 6 rear. The rear is rather bouncy, but it will help me to smooth out my pedal stroke.

You make a good point about the actual amount of "suspension" from the tires. If I didn't already have a 29er hardtail for summer use, I would consider installing the Bluto. This bike is going to be primarily for riding in snow, sand and perhaps fall leaves and pine needles, where the extra traction of the wide rubber is a big advantage.

I'll be posting some additional build details and a pic or two shortly.


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

drmayer said:


> You'll want to keep the bluto. Fat tires "bounce" too much over roots and rocks. If you're used to running suspension, you'll be disappointed with what the tires do by themselves. I ran a rigid Pugsley last summer and hated it as a summer trail bike for the reasons mentioned above. Got the sturgis with bluto this year and it's much more fun to ride.


Even in the snow, the Bluto helped me out. The ingress and egress trails at the park I rode in this winter saw a lot of foot traffic. The footprints made for quite a washboard type ride. I had my Bluto locked out and I bounced all over the place. I found it hard to control and keep the bike going straight. I then remembered I had locked out the suspension fork, flipped it back to "on" and that really helped out.
Just some thoughts. I'm keeping by Bluto so I can take her out all year round on our rocky trails. Then again, the weight of the bike doesn't matter to me -- this is my "I'm feeling goofy today" and winter bike.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Commute to my weekend job today. Surf lessons.


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## civicseth (Mar 16, 2015)

I ended up just cutting 2" off the seat post. There is still plenty of height adjustment and at least 4" in the seat tube.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*I swear we didn't plan this!*

When I originally ordered my frameset, I wanted red, which was supposed to be metalflake. When that didn't come in, I switched to gold, which was also supposed to be metalflake. Well, it wasn't anything like the metalflake sample on the BD site, but it was nearly identical to...







...my girlfriend's 9Zero7.

They're both "school bus yellow" with the only difference being a little bit of metalflake in the clearcoat on the Moto. I'm pretty sure that Kinesis makes 9Zero7 frames, so it's a good bet that they both have the same base color. We really weren't looking for matching his & hers bikes, but it ended up that way.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

tfinator said:


> Duuuuuuuude, let it go! Someone made an exception for you. We're happy you're riding, but past that it's not helpful!


Haha! I'm not the only one they made an exception for. It's actually on this forum I learned about the DH issue. You must've had to pay for yours which would explain why you're such a tfinator!


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

2002 Sport said:


> Haha! I'm not the only one they made an exception for. It's actually on this forum I learned about the DH issue. You must've had to pay for yours which would explain why you're such a tfinator!


Duuuuuuude let it goooooooo


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Bnystrom said:


> View attachment 976941
> 
> ..


Those look awesome together. I don't like the swoop factor on the 907s, but the matching frame colors is rad.
I'm also jealous your GF rides


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

tfinator said:


> Those look awesome together. I don't like the swoop factor on the 907s, but the matching frame colors is rad.
> I'm also jealous your GF rides


I'm lucky that my wife rides. She enjoys most of the riding we do -- doesn't like the technical stuff as much, but whatever she can't ride she'll walk over.

We ended up in a similar situation. We both ended up getting matching Trance 27.5 1 bikes for different reasons. The prices were so good, we just couldn't pass them up. I've yet to get her a fattie, though. Next year!


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*You don't know the half of it...*



tfinator said:


> Those look awesome together. I don't like the swoop factor on the 907s, but the matching frame colors is rad.
> I'm also jealous your GF rides


The 9Zero7 frame does look weird, but it has to be that shape for her to have any standover clearance, since she's only 5'1" (it's a 13" frame). Her only other option was 24" wheels and we didn't want to go that route.

We actually met through sea kayaking, but she caught the cycling bug ~10 years ago. It started with a hardtail (plus a full suspension bike, of course), then a road bike (actually two), then she started racing sprint-tri's which led to a TT bike. A couple of years later, she announced that she wanted to race cyclocross (two more bikes). This past fall, we built her fat bike and she convinced me that I needed one, too. She has almost as many bikes as I do and I've been at this for over 40 years.

We've had cycling adventures all over the US, in Quebec and last year we did a trip in Provence.

On top of all that, she loves to cook and she's the only woman I've known who I can buy tools and gear for and she loves it. Most important, she's still keeping me around after almost 14 years.

Yeah...I'm one *seriously *lucky old dog!

PS. It took me 44 years to find her, so don't give up.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

tfinator said:


> Duuuuuuude let it goooooooo


I was just trying to pass on the information that was shared here. Nothing more. Do you have a different opinion about the flimsy derailleur hanger that came with our bikes? If so, then opine on that issue. No need to pick on someone's posting and decide you know better.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*Some frameset build notes*

Here are a few things that may save people some hassles when building up one of these frames.

- The headset cups refused to be pressed in straight until I chamfered the the edges of headtube _lightly _with a deburring tool.

- Chamfering the top edge of the steerer tube _lightly _ will allow it to slip through the FSA top cap without catching the O-ring. Twisting the fork and/or cap as you install it helps too.

- The derailleur hanger was pretty badly out of alignment, both vertically and horizontally (>1/4" vertically, nearly 1/2" horizontally. If this is typical, it probably explains some of the noisy shifting issues people have mentioned with their bikes. The shape of the "Gen 1" hanger will not allow a Park DAG to seat fully without adding an axle washer as a spacer.

- The easiest way I found to run the derailleur cable housing it to remove the port near the bottom bracket, slide the housing in and grab the end of it with a pair of 4" hemostats (a. k. a. "surgical clamp", available at hardware stores cheap). I tried the method of threading the inner wire first, then sliding the housing back along the wire, but I couldn't get the stiff shift housing to come out of the port near the headtube.

- The thru-axle on the carbon fork uses a loose nut on the off-side. Frankly this arrangement sucks, but it's apparently typical of carbon fat bike forks. It does allow you the option of reversing the axle, but I can't think of any good reason to put the quick release on the same side as the brake caliper if you don't have to. I was able to wrap the nut with hard plastic tape that I had on-hand to create a tight friction fit in the fork recess. I can still adjust it with some effort, but it's a lot less likely that I'll drop it out on the trail, which is my main concern. If I devise a better means of retention, I'll report back.


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Does the Bluto frameset include a shockpump? Or anything else, for that matter?


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

It comes with the frame, fork, headset, seatpost clamp, both thru axles, water bottle screws and cable clips.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Dolbydarma said:


> Broke the RD Hanger today... Ugh. While I was resting my bike slipped off the tree it was leaning on and fell over. Yep, that's all it took.


Bound to happen, unfortunately. I hope you didn't have to miss saddle time having to wait for the replacement to arrive.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Neither options will likely work.

You *might* be able to bend the rack out enough to mate to the wider frame, but good luck keeping it square. It's also a really beefy rack, so this will take a lot of effort. If all this works out, you might be lucky enough to still have enough clearance to clear the tire.

The Moose rack/trailer connection is pretty odd--it's not something you can jury rig on another rack.

Stick with the seat post mounted rack. I use both, and the seat post type isn't that much less stable.



cfanto said:


> I haven't seen anyone stick any sort of rear rack on their Sturgis/NightTrain, yet. Mine came with the rack mount braze-ons so I plan to do away with my seatpost-mounted "trail-a-bike" and go with a Burley Piccolo for more stability.
> 
> Just curious if there's even enough room for the 4.5" tires to clear the rack even after having to spread out the legs to accommodate the lower mounts on the Sturgis frame.
> 
> ...


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

Thanks for the info seat_boy.. that helps a lot!



seat_boy said:


> Neither options will likely work.
> 
> You *might* be able to bend the rack out enough to mate to the wider frame, but good luck keeping it square. It's also a really beefy rack, so this will take a lot of effort. If all this works out, you might be lucky enough to still have enough clearance to clear the tire.
> 
> ...


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

2002 Sport said:


> Bound to happen, unfortunately. I hope you didn't have to miss saddle time having to wait for the replacement to arrive.


The replacement was ordered this morning. I was hoping to just get the gen 3 when it came out so I never ordered a back up despite all the good advice. I had no idea I couldn't just pick one up at all my local bike shops. So while I didn't get to ride my Sturgis on Sunday as planned I did get one heck of a sweet ride in on my Gravel Bike I picked up last October, a Giant a Revolt. I love that bike.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

*Lucky duck here*

I took an off trail excursion and picked up a ~4' branch in my rear drlr. The point of the stick was in the drlr, but the chain was not jammed. The hanger did not bend or break.
Granted, it was pushing straight back instead of sideways.
(I still want my free one, though!)

-F


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Fleas said:


> I took an off trail excursion and picked up a ~4' branch in my rear drlr. The point of the stick was in the drlr, but the chain was not jammed. The hanger did not bend or break.
> Granted, it was pushing straight back instead of sideways.
> (I still want my free one, though!)
> 
> -F


Note to self: only jam the RD front to back; not sideways. JK! Yes, that is lucky. 
Just a reminder: on page 79, posting #1966, there is a picture I attached comparing the one that came on our bikes and the one #2 DH they sent me.


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## Wyoming Shooter (May 15, 2014)

Has anyone gone tubeless on the Sturgis Bullet? If so, are there recommendations as to which techniques and materials to use? Is there anything "special" about the SB stock wheels and tires that makes going tubeless an unusually good or bad thing? Thanks very much.


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## prescott_old_timer (Dec 30, 2014)

*Weinmann HL80s Tubeless Forum*



Wyoming Shooter said:


> Has anyone gone tubeless on the Sturgis Bullet? If so, are there recommendations as to which techniques and materials to use? Is there anything "special" about the SB stock wheels and tires that makes going tubeless an unusually good or bad thing? Thanks very much.


Check out this Forum. http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/how-weinmann-hl80s-tubeless-912220.html
:thumbsup:


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Wyoming Shooter said:


> Has anyone gone tubeless on the Sturgis Bullet? If so, are there recommendations as to which techniques and materials to use? Is there anything "special" about the SB stock wheels and tires that makes going tubeless an unusually good or bad thing? Thanks very much.


Easiest and most reliable way to set them up tubeless is to replace them with some carbon rims...


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## Wyoming Shooter (May 15, 2014)

Prescott - Thanks for the very helpful link!


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

MaximumX said:


> Easiest and most reliable way to set them up tubeless is to replace them with some carbon rims...


If you're going to do that, you may as well just buy a second set of wheels for ~$600.


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Bnystrom said:


> If you're going to do that, you may as well just buy a second set of wheels for ~$600.


That works too.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Bnystrom said:


> If you're going to do that, you may as well just buy a second set of wheels for ~$600.


Which wheel set would you recommend for the $600 estimate?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Ican has some 65mm carbon wheels for $608. I think if you hunt around you can find them in wider widths. I got some 90mm Nextie-type wheels from q2, but they were a little more money.

Try some google/amazon/aliexpress searching... You'll find some different options.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

MaximumX said:


> Ican has some 65mm carbon wheels for $608. I think if you hunt around you can find them in wider widths. I got some 90mm Nextie-type wheels from q2, but they were a little more money.
> 
> Try some google/amazon/aliexpress searching... You'll find some different options.


I put the 65mm icans on my NTB, but couldn't get them tubeless.


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Oh no? I'm surprised... I don't have any experience with them myself, but I thought they were supposed to be tubeless ready. 

What was the problem with them?


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

I went Ghetto Tubeless (split tube method) on my Sturgis and it worked fantastic. Saved 2 lbs of weight and only cost about $40 to do. I'd recommend it to anyone.

How To Convert Your Fat Bike to Tubeless Using a Split Tube | Singletracks Mountain Bike News


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

MaximumX said:


> Ican has some 65mm carbon wheels for $608. I think if you hunt around you can find them in wider widths. I got some 90mm Nextie-type wheels from q2, but they were a little more money.
> 
> Try some google/amazon/aliexpress searching... You'll find some different options.


How do you like the 90mm carbon vs the 80mm weinmann? I was thinking the 90mm carbon may be fun but still want to keep the bike somewhat sporty on hard pack. Too wide or just right?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

MaximumX said:


> Oh no? I'm surprised... I don't have any experience with them myself, but I thought they were supposed to be tubeless ready.
> 
> What was the problem with them?


The Icans are not advertised as tubeless ready and I do not believe they are. I am not saying that they cannot be setup tubeless. Just that they are not advertised as tubeless ready.

I had trouble seating and sealing the NTB snowshoes on the ICAN 65s. Just ordered a set of Nimble Bs but have not received them. I hope I can run those tubless.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Which wheel set would you recommend for the $600 estimate?


I've got the 85mm carbon set from Yishunbike.com. I've also built up a set of their rims for my girlfriend. They were really easy to set up tubeless, just tape over the holes and install the tires and sealant. Done. She's got Husker Du's on her bike and I've go Snowshoes on mine. Both fit perfectly.

You'll get a better price by emailing and dealing directly with them, rather than using their retail site Asian Cycle Express. I dealt with Vivian ([email protected]). They also sell frames, forks, cranks, tubes and tires.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I just ordered 90 mm carbon rims from Light Bicycle. Should take a month or so to get here but per other folks on mtbr it sets up really easy tubeless. The weight savings alone from the 80mm Weinmann to the 90 mm LB rims will be 350gm per rim! I'm pretty psyched. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

What hubs and spokes are you getting?


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I'm probably going to just reuse what I can from the existing wheelset. Not sure if that's a bad idea or not but it certainly is the cheapest. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

beachbum1 said:


> I'm probably going to just reuse what I can from the existing wheelset. Not sure if that's a bad idea or not but it certainly is the cheapest.


Considered this^^ but will probably just drill some more holes in the HL-80's and put the FBN on there for this season. Keepin these for now and the winter and will see what hits the market next year....should be lots more choices!


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

how heavy is the stock weinmann hl80 rims? did anyone tried to weigh the rim only?


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

They're around 1000 grams. In comparison, the 85mm carbon rims we got from Yishunbike weighed between 604 and 616 grams. In other words, you save 13-14 ounces per rim.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Bnystrom said:


> They're around 1000 grams. In comparison, the 85mm carbon rims we got from Yishunbike weighed between 604 and 616 grams. In other words, you save 13-14 ounces per rim.


thanks Bnystrom for this info.

so those weinmann rims are quite heavy and that would be my next upgrade later - after the tires and tubes.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

by the way - if i still go for alloy rims 80mm - what are the lighter brands/models available vs. the weinmann hl80? my budget is not so fat - only the bike is!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

scottspark60 said:


> by the way - if i still go for alloy rims 80mm - what are the lighter brands/models available vs. the weinmann hl80? my budget is not so fat - only the bike is!


I was looking to see how far from "normal" weight the HL80's were, but I'm not buying soon.
Not sure on price, but a few 80mm aluminum rims are:

Surly Rolling Daryl (82mm) at 860g
Fatlab 80 disc at 800g
Sun-Ringle Mulfut at 810g
Turnagain FR80 at 890g
...
So you're giving up at least ~1/4# per wheel with the HL80's. I imagine they are quite durable, though.
You def. want to check spoke hole arrangement and tubeless set-up, but I think any of those would work.

-F


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Should be able to drop around 200 grams per rim by drilling 60 - 3/4 inch holes in each. Cheapest way to lighten em without going new and just picking up tires imo.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Should be able to drop around 200 grams per rim by drilling 60 - 3/4 inch holes in each. Cheapest way to lighten em without going new and just picking up tires imo.


The HL80 "with big holes" on the BD bikes already have 32mm holes in them and still weigh 1000g (down from 1200g w/o holes). There is probably enough material there to drill a bunch of smaller holes to get it down to 850g, but I will probably not be the guinea pig on that project.

-F


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

I will post up the pics when I start drillin em next week...get ready for HL80 swiss cheese! If they end up folding, I can always remove the hubs and get better rims...no biggie.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Fleas said:


> I was looking to see how far from "normal" weight the HL80's were, but I'm not buying soon.
> Not sure on price, but a few 80mm aluminum rims are:
> 
> Surly Rolling Daryl (82mm) at 860g
> ...


Thanks Fleas - this is very helpful!


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

NH Mtbiker said:


> I will post up the pics when I start drillin em next week...get ready for HL80 swiss cheese! If they end up folding, I can always remove the hubs and get better rims...no biggie.


yup - i read that drilling holes on rims is one of the option to get it lighter.

anyway, i think it's a worthy experiment on a lowly hl80 rims. we'll wait for the photos and result of the test ride!


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

What aftermarket headsets will fit on the sturgis/night train?


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Has anyone considered drilling out the 32mm holes on the rims? To maybe a 35mm?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

2002 Sport said:


> Has anyone considered drilling out the 32mm holes on the rims? To maybe a 35mm?


I don't know how to find it, but I know a read about this a couple years ago. This was before anyone was making carbon and there were only about 5 different rim models in all of fat bike land.

The holes on these seem kind of small honestly, I think you could go a lot bigger.

At 150 lbsi I was never worried about these giving out on me.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

tfinator said:


> I don't know how to find it, but I know a read about this a couple years ago. This was before anyone was making carbon and there were only about 5 different rim models in all of fat bike land.
> 
> The holes on these seem kind of small honestly, I think you could go a lot bigger.
> 
> At 150 lbsi I was never worried about these giving out on me.


Thanks for the info. This is not a must-do on my list. I was just curious to see if anyone else had considered/done this before. I just think this will look better than drilling another set of smaller holes adjacent to the spoke holes. Now, if only I could find a grinding stone cone in this size (35-36mm). Home Depot does not carry any.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

harbor freight.. step drill is what I used.. Titanium Nitride Coated Steel Step Drill Bit Set


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

2002 Sport said:


> Thanks for the info. This is not a must-do on my list. I was just curious to see if anyone else had considered/done this before. I just think this will look better than drilling another set of smaller holes adjacent to the spoke holes. Now, if only I could find a grinding stone cone in this size (35-36mm). Home Depot does not carry any.


Grinding aluminum won't work - it'll just gum up on the stone. With preexisting holes, a step bit is the only option - re:twright205.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

watermonkey said:


> Grinding aluminum won't work - it'll just gum up on the stone. With preexisting holes, a step bit is the only option - re:twright205.


Thanks. I stopped by the local HD and they didn't have anything bigger than 1 1/8. I'll check Harbor Freight next.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

A great ride at the Garden of the Gods today! This bike just eats up the rocks and flys through the singletrack. Definitely not just for snow!


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Has anyone been able to order some replacement end cap spacers from Bikesdirect for the front Novatec 15x150mm front hub?


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Already time to replace the bottom bracket. Has anyone replaced theirs and what quality one did you use? The bearings developed some grinding after just a few months this winter. Is it just a 100mm English?


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Anyone know when the S3 derailleur hangar is supposed to come in?


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Already time to replace the bottom bracket. Has anyone replaced theirs and what quality one did you use? The bearings developed some grinding after just a few months this winter. Is it just a 100mm English?


Just curious -- were you carrying the bike outside the car and was it exposed to road salt? My buddy had salt all over his bike when he used to take it places and his bottom bracket went as well.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

My BB bearing went on the drive side awhile ago. My bike is transported inside my car, but ridden around salted city streets a fair bit. I threw in an old cup and pressed in a new chi chang pong China bearing into the stock cup. Gonna swap it in during the next couple days.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Did not transport it on salted roads but did ride just a few times on roads with salt. Yeah it was also my drive side...thinking of just replacing the bearings for now. Maybe with Enduro seals. I don't think a normal cheap GXP Bb will work with the Samox cranks though....different size shaft I believe?


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

twright205 said:


> harbor freight.. step drill is what I used.. Titanium Nitride Coated Steel Step Drill Bit Set


I did the front rim but I'm not pleased with the way it came out. What did you use to smooth out the rough cut?

Also, did you just use a regular handheld or a drill press?


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

2002 Sport said:


> I did the front rim but I'm not pleased with the way it came out. What did you use to smooth out the rough cut?
> 
> Also, did you just use a regular handheld or a drill press?


Just used a cordless Ryobi and a 3/4 inch hole bit for $8. Very little burrs, smooth and didnt take out too much material. Like the look and should be a decent weight saving from stock. Will be putting in a red tyvek rim strip, qtubes and a new FBN tire soon! :thumbsup:


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Just used a cordless Ryobi and a 3/4 inch hole bit for $8. Very little burrs, smooth and didnt take out too much material. Like the look and should be a decent weight saving from stock. Will be putting in a red tyvek rim strip, qtubes and a new FBN tire soon! :thumbsup:


That looks pretty good. Is it even less tubeless-compatible? 

I'm still not trying it. 

-F


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Hole-ly wheels, Batman.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Just used a cordless Ryobi and a 3/4 inch hole bit for $8. Very little burrs, smooth and didnt take out too much material. Like the look and should be a decent weight saving from stock. Will be putting in a red tyvek rim strip, qtubes and a new FBN tire soon! :thumbsup:


Do you have the numbers as far as the weight saving doing this? Thanks


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

2002 Sport said:


> Do you have the numbers as far as the weight saving doing this? Thanks


I will when I do the front wheel in a few days...will post up before and after weights then.


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## civicseth (Mar 16, 2015)

NH Mtbiker said:


> I will when I do the front wheel in a few days...will post up before and after weights then.


Please do, I'm sure many of us would love to know.


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## civicseth (Mar 16, 2015)

Just swapped the OEM Sturgis tires (Vee Tire 26x4.25/4.8) to some QTubes Superlight 26x2.4/2.75. Saved over 284 grams per tire. Let's see how well they hold up on the trail.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Is there any weight savings to be had in swapping out the headset for something better? Can anyone tell me which cane creek headset will fit?


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

32mm on the left and 1 3/8 on the right. Still not satisfied so I have a 40mm step bit on order. I'm hoping that will not compromise the wheel's integrity.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

It was ONLY about 9gms/hole weight savings. IMO, weights saving:time work ratio is not worth it.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

2002 Sport said:


> It was ONLY about 9gms/hole weight savings. IMO, weights saving:time work ratio is not worth it.


If you can "lose" 9gms x 30 holes, that's effectively making each wheel very nearly .6 lbs lighter though. At the rim of a wheel, that's definitely a difference that you will feel.

Only you can decide what your time is worth, but a lot of cyclists throw a lot of their resources into things that will make a lesser difference.

Hopefully they stay suitably strong for you.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

AthleticAL said:


> If you can "lose" 9gms x 30 holes, that's effectively making each wheel very nearly .6 lbs lighter though. At the rim of a wheel, that's definitely a difference that you will feel.
> 
> Only you can decide what your time is worth, but a lot of cyclists throw a lot of their resources into things that will make a lesser difference.
> 
> Hopefully they stay suitably strong for you.


That's what I was thinking. 270 grams per rim is nice. 
Be careful not to get too close to those spoke nipples with the 40mm!


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

2002 Sport said:


> 32mm on the left and 1 3/8 on the right. Still not satisfied so I have a 40mm step bit on order. I'm hoping that will not compromise the wheel's integrity.


You are going to get danerously close to the ridge edge on the middle section with those larger holes. That ridge ties the spokes to the outside of the rim. If the rim starts to flex in the small section between the hole and the edge of the ridge, then it's game over. Aluminum doesn't like to flex too much. Once it does, cracks form and it is trash at best. Be careful -- I'm sure you probably don't want to do any unscheduled dental work.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

2002 Sport said:


> 32mm on the left and 1 3/8 on the right. Still not satisfied so I have a 40mm step bit on order. I'm hoping that will not compromise the wheel's integrity.
> View attachment 981332


Please tell me that is NOT the factory rim strip. You could save a ton right there. I think I went from that (146g) to 26g with mylar, while someone else used Tyvek at only 10g per wheel. Although if you go to 40mm holes you might need a heavier rim strip to bridge the larger holes.

-F


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Allamuchy Joe said:


> You are going to get danerously close to the ridge edge on the middle section with those larger holes. That ridge ties the spokes to the outside of the rim. If the rim starts to flex in the small section between the hole and the edge of the ridge, then it's game over. Aluminum doesn't like to flex too much. Once it does, cracks form and it is trash at best. Be careful -- I'm sure you probably don't want to do any unscheduled dental work.
> 
> View attachment 981427


Thanks for the advise. I thought about that before I pulled the trigger in ordering the 40mm step bit. I was more concerned about how close the hole will get to the spoke holes (where the tension is) more than the ridge. There a post above drilling through those ridges so in my case I was thinking it's more of a relation between the bead end of the rim vs the tension of the spokes.

Also, I'm about 165 lbs (including gears) so I was hoping that would not be too much(?).


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Fleas said:


> Please tell me that is NOT the factory rim strip. You could save a ton right there. I think I went from that (146g) to 26g with mylar, while someone else used Tyvek at only 10g per wheel. Although if you go to 40mm holes you might need a heavier rim strip to bridge the larger holes.
> 
> -F


It is but I already have the red duct tape on standby after all this (drilling) is done. BTW, I have the Snowshoes XL for the front and that is why I'm trying to compensate the wheel's weight with that added weight from the tire.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

i think that enlarging the stock 32mm rim holes looks better than drilling additional small holes. if 9 grams per hole can be save with this method - then i think i'll also go for it. it's cheaper than buying a new 80mm 800+grams alloy rim.


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## kcdirtbro54 (Mar 29, 2011)

I think I'll join the comments on this thread. About to pull the trigger on a Sturgis bullet before they sell out of what they have now. 19" seems to be about right for being 6'3 and coming from the small bike world of bmx


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I put an order in for a NTB several weeks ago, just got a letter saying the delivery date has slipped by a month.

Part of the price of these, I suppose.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Has anyone talked to BD on when the new derailer hangers will be shipped out?
Had done slop yesterday, so after 700 miles or so I may have finally bent mine.
Not looking forward to straightening it.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

tfinator said:


> Has anyone talked to BD on when the new derailer hangers will be shipped out?
> Had done slop yesterday, so after 700 miles or so I may have finally bent mine.
> Not looking forward to straightening it.


FYI - Mine snapped the moment I tried to straighten it, had to push the bike 2 miles back to the Jeep. I purchased a replacement v2 and am still waiting for my free v3.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Been checking in with BD weekly on this hanger - v3. They did get back to me with this:

"According to my CEO, they should be in this week or next week  
We will let you know when they show up." 
Karla


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Been checking in with BD weekly on this hanger - v3. They did get back to me with this:
> 
> "According to my CEO, they should be in this week or next week
> We will let you know when they show up."
> Karla


Damn. I've got a big ride in two weeks. Looks like I'll have to ante up a bit the v2.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

tfinator said:


> Damn. I've got a big ride in two weeks. Looks like I'll have to ante up a bit the v2.


Aaaaaand they're out. I might be SOL.
maybe I'll hit it with a heat gun before straightening. :madman:


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

*Sturgis Bullet Couple Month Review*

Did I mention how fun my Sturgis Bullet is? 

Running Snowshoe tires, Q-tubes, mylar rim strips, WTB Pure V saddle, and white ODI Longneck Mushroom grips. No other mods except that Winter camo. Bud & Lou set aside for 3 seasons.

It really goes through some horrible conditions - even somewhat easily. Just keep pedaling. It's got hella low gears.

I ride it most often in street clothes with hiking boots on flat pedals - a totally "recreational" set up that suits the purpose of this bike (compared to my 29er's more "serious" set-up).

The front is a little heavy (heck the whole bike is "a little heavy"), so I am approaching drops and step-ups with a little caution, but the weight lends some stability. It also makes riding wheelies pretty easy (it just takes a little effort to pop it up there). Manual-ed down 4 steps with ease, then rode back up with equal ease. It's almost smooth!

I thought self-steer was a myth, but no matter what I do I can feel some crazy steering feedback with the Snowshoe up front, even in the dirt (esp. in the dirt?). Those edge knobs on 4"+ tires tend to grab everything. Narrower bars need not apply. The Bud was much better, and I think a Husker Du (on another guy's bike) was also better. I may try a Fat B Nimble on the front, just for the steering manners. Oh, and while I didn't measure, the Snowshoe tires look like they became taller - with a more rounded cross section. The tires are really good in propulsion and braking, but less in lateral grip.

I am still fiddling with the Bluto, but that is pretty incidental to me. It will work properly eventually.

Shifting has been great. (I had my rear hanger blessed by a priest)
I really like the Tektro brakes although the reservoirs stick out towards the center such that if I run into a tree one of them will probably get broken off. They have pretty good lever adjustment.
Q factor is a non-factor for me (and I am keeping it with the full complement of gears). In low-low the chain just misses a Lou.

Not much of a sprinter. :???:

And I did notice - independently of an article that mentioned it - that the interaction between a Bluto and 4"+ tire creates some unusual behaviors up front on high-speed chatter. Damping might have to be increased slightly from where I now have it, but I'm also still fiddling with tire pressure (9/11 - F/R).

I have too many roads around here to take any really long rides on it that aren't circles, so if I ride from the house I ride a different bike, but on any day that is snowy or muddy, or I just want to go 'splorin' I ride the Bullet. Riding it let's me off the hook for any competitive tendencies I have, and makes riding more of a tour than a race, which is often my goal for riding in poor conditions.
Totally worth it.
(although waiting from mid-Nov. 'til nearly March kinda sucked)

-F


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Fleas said:


> Did I mention how fun my Sturgis Bullet is?
> 
> -F


Nice summary review, Fleas. You sound like my kind of off-roader, philosophy-wise

I have to agree on pretty much all points meshin' with my experience too. Haven't noticed the Bluto issue really yet because i've not pushed down any chatter yet, most the miles I've logged were pre-thaw and since then I've favored my other rides. But I do know that folks were recommending upgrading to the RCT3 damper cartridge in the Bluto thread...

I'm gonna put this thing through a good solid dirt ride real soon and see what I think about how it handles a faster pace.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

I put on some fat b nimble tires the other day. A world of difference.
They about cut the difference between the fat bike and normal hard tail in half. 
Way more lively, and no self steer. Still easy to bounce over rocky stuff.
I did slide out on loose gravel etc a few times. I think there's so much traction with the snowshoe that I was just letting my technique get sloppy.
Will ride them some more, and have a 60 miles ride coming up so I'll report back.
I haven't weighed it again, but it was 29.0 lbs before the tire change. My fbns measured at 1155 and 1160 grams, so I think I'll be at about 28#? Maybe under a hair...


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

tfinator said:


> I put on some fat b nimble tires the other day. A world of difference.
> They about cut the difference between the fat bike and normal hard tail in half.
> Way more lively, and no self steer. Still easy to bounce over rocky stuff.
> I did slide out on loose gravel etc a few times. I think there's so much traction with the snowshoe that I was just letting my technique get sloppy.
> ...


Great to hear! Ordered only one for the rear, but thinking a front one will be in order after hearing all the self-steer stories on the 4.5 Snowshoes. Still working on drilling the front HL80 and will have it ready soon.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Great to hear! Ordered only one for the rear, but thinking a front one will be in order after hearing all the self-steer stories on the 4.5 Snowshoes. Still working on drilling the front HL80 and will have it ready soon.


Just an fyi- I am running tubeless with 65mm nextie rims. I'll take a pic on my ride this afternoon, this thread is lacking terribly in the bike porn department.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Chunky rocky river ride last night. Fat tires really helped tame a ride that I find super challenging on another bike.

Just a heads up for you guys to check that your axle cone nuts are snug. When I got back from my ride and was checking the bike over and wiping the chain off, I noticed a clunky play somewhere in the rear wheel. Then I noticed that the casette had noticeable lateral play in it. So I had to pull the casette off and that's where I found the culprit--a very loose axle cone nut.


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## danny31292 (Jul 20, 2011)

Can anyone confirm how the bottom bracket spacers go on? I thought 1 on the non drive side and 2 on the drive side. Mine is backwards either from the factory or I screwed up. Also, my BB is shot. Pulled it out and there was a little puddle of water down there... The included BB looks like it has replaceable cartridge bearings.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Yours is set up right if it has 2 on non-drive, 1 on the drive side.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Build question... I'm thinking of removing my front deraillure since I just stick with one ring all the time. So with that coming off I've got two questions:

Can I reroute my rear disk brake with the internal routing that won't be used anymore, or should I just plug those holes - and if that, what should I plug them with?


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## civicseth (Mar 16, 2015)

Fleas said:


> Running Snowshoe tires, Q-tubes, mylar rim strips, WTB Pure V saddle, and white ODI Longneck Mushroom grips.


Could you provide some information on the mylar rim strips? I'd like to swap out the OEM plastic strips for something lighter.


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## danny31292 (Jul 20, 2011)

AthleticAL said:


> Yours is set up right if it has 2 on non-drive, 1 on the drive side.


Every other BB/ crank setup always has 1 extra spacer on the drive side. Why is the night train different?

Also anyone else know of any cheap 100mm BB's?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

civicseth said:


> Could you provide some information on the mylar rim strips? I'd like to swap out the OEM plastic strips for something lighter.


I don't know about mylar, but I did two wraps of paid backing tape I had stuck to caution tape. Worked great and weight was light.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

civicseth said:


> Could you provide some information on the mylar rim strips? I'd like to swap out the OEM plastic strips for something lighter.


The stuff I have I got from work. They are old conveyor belts, so not readily available. Although you can buy a whole roll of mylar and slit it into rim strips. I think you can also get it on a ~2" roll like duct tape (no adhesive), too, but I haven't bothered sourcing any. I think that laminating film is similar stuff.
Pretty much anything is lighter than the OEM rim strips.

-F


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

Has anyone switched to a Bluto? I'm looking for a stock Sturgis/NightTrain rigid fork and BD doesn't sell them separately.

Thanks.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Dolbydarma said:


> Build question... I'm thinking of removing my front deraillure since I just stick with one ring all the time. So with that coming off I've got two questions:
> 
> Can I reroute my rear disk brake with the internal routing that won't be used anymore, or should I just plug those holes - and if that, what should I plug them with?


Plug em with these...cut to size?...
http://www.amazon.com/Flex-Core®-Te...=1429568653&sr=8-31&keywords=rubber+golf+tees


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

Dolbydarma said:


> Build question... I'm thinking of removing my front deraillure since I just stick with one ring all the time. So with that coming off I've got two questions:
> 
> Can I reroute my rear disk brake with the internal routing that won't be used anymore, or should I just plug those holes - and if that, what should I plug them with?


I personally wouldn't want to deal with the hassle of routing the hydraulic cables (disassemble hose from caliper, recrimp new olives, rebleed brakes, etc.). So unless you plan on going w/ mechanical discs (BB7), I'd say no. Just plug the holes up w/ Sugru or something.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Perfect answer - never had hydros b4 so had no idea what they would need to get rerouted. And, never heard of Sugru before... That stuff just looks awesome for tons of stuff. Thanks Bro!


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

*Anyone else faster on their fatbike than their other bikes?*

On pavement, it definitely feels like pedaling in molasses. But on dirt, it zooms... even on the hills! I thought maybe it's psychological or just felt fast because it was a 'new-to-me' bike. So I decided to 'Strava' my last ride...

On one of the trails closest to me (~40min away), there's a climb that usually takes me about ~17min. on my main bike (Giant Reign). On my singlespeed 29er (also a BD bike), my fastest time is 14:51 (& that's me having to stop to catch my breath 3 or 4 times on the way up). However, on the fatbike I'm only 6 seconds behind the SS at 14:57! It amazed me because I could never catch up to what I could do on the SS w/ any of my other geared bikes.

My tire pressures are 10psi front | 11psi rear.

Anyone else faster on their fatbike?


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Anyone get the BD 29er wheelset that is compatible with our bikes? I have a summer bike and really have no need for a summer wheelset but at $250, it's a bit tempting to try.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

cfanto said:


> On pavement, it definitely feels like pedaling in molasses. But on dirt, it zooms... even on the hills! I thought maybe it's psychological or just felt fast because it was a 'new-to-me' bike. So I decided to 'Strava' my last ride...
> 
> On one of the trails closest to me (~40min away), there's a climb that usually takes me about ~17min. on my main bike (Giant Reign). On my singlespeed 29er (also a BD bike), my fastest time is 14:51 (& that's me having to stop to catch my breath 3 or 4 times on the way up). However, on the fatbike I'm only 6 seconds behind the SS at 14:57! It amazed me because I could never catch up to what I could do on the SS w/ any of my other geared bikes.
> 
> ...


I'm slower or even on flats. I am faster on downhills. I am even on technical climbs and slower on non technical climbs.
As you'd expect, anything chunky and rocky is faster than my 2.1" tired 650b hard tail. The tires help. I'll still be slower on the up, but I often clean things I don't normally.
Downhills are, well, much much faster


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

beachbum1 said:


> Anyone get the BD 29er wheelset that is compatible with our bikes? I have a summer bike and really have no need for a summer wheelset but at $250, it's a bit tempting to try.


Can you post a link to the tire deal?

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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/parts/bicycle-wheels-sale.htm

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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

beachbum1 said:


> Anyone get the BD 29er wheelset that is compatible with our bikes? I have a summer bike and really have no need for a summer wheelset but at $250, it's a bit tempting to try.


I did. The rear hub is 190mm so BD includes two small pieces of anodized aluminum that are machined to fit the slots in the rear dropouts so the hub fits. I did not find these parts right away so I thought the rear wheel would not fit. Then someone on here posted about the small parts.

Anyway, I do really like the bike with this wheelset. I say go for it.


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## FRANKENBIKE42 (Nov 24, 2008)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Great to hear! Ordered only one for the rear, but thinking a front one will be in order after hearing all the self-steer stories on the 4.5 Snowshoes. Still working on drilling the front HL80 and will have it ready soon.


Eagerly awaiting your update on drilling the wheels. I am thinking about doing the same.


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

mtb_fun said:


> I did. The rear hub is 190mm so BD includes two small pieces of anodized aluminum that are machined to fit the slots in the rear dropouts so the hub fits. I did not find these parts right away so I thought the rear wheel would not fit. Then someone on here posted about the small parts.
> 
> Anyway, I do really like the bike with this wheelset. I say go for it.


mtb_fun, do you happen to have any pics of your setup w/ the 29er wheels? I'm just curious how it looks w/ the wide Bluto & wide rear tri.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

On the 17th, bikes direct sent me an email stating that they had found a pair of NTB's in a shipping container of different model bikes. Since I was the first to place a pre-order for a black medium, they sent one of the found bikes my way.

It just got here today, and I put it together out in the front yard.

I have already replaced the seat post, grips, and handlebar, and am considering upgrades for the crankset.

I have only ridden around the yard as of yet, but it is definitely an upgrade from my FB4.

Love this bike, it is fantastic!

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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

anybody find a source for replacement hubs for the sturgis/nighttrain bullet.... looking to perhaps build up a second wheelset around the velocity dually.

I have a 29'er dually set up for my Pug. and thinking of doing the same...


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

twright205 said:


> anybody find a source for replacement hubs for the sturgis/nighttrain bullet.... looking to perhaps build up a second wheelset around the velocity dually.
> 
> I have a 29'er dually set up for my Pug. and thinking of doing the same...


They're nothing special. The ones on the bike originally are novatec. But 907, chosen, i9, fatback, and a ton of others make 197x12 and 150x15 hubs.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Anyone get the carbon fork for their Sturgis/NT yet? Hard to pass on for $199. Sorry I didn't read the whole thread.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

siv said:


> Anyone get the carbon fork for their Sturgis/NT yet? Hard to pass on for $199. Sorry I didn't read the whole thread.


I've got one coming next week for my Sturgis Bullet


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

siv said:


> Anyone get the carbon fork for their Sturgis/NT yet? Hard to pass on for $199. Sorry I didn't read the whole thread.


I have one on the NTB frameset that I recently built up. I posted a few comments about it somewhere in the last few pages of this thread.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Deleted


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## bobdurden (Apr 24, 2013)

Is there anybody who has decided to go with a carbon fork over their Bluto? I'm trying to decide which would be better for me. I originally bought my Sturgis without the Bluto as I was only going to ride it during the winter on flat, well groomed trails. 

I'm having so much fun on it now that i'm considering buying a Bluto for summer riding. For some reason though I keep leaning towards pulling the trigger on Carbon instead for the weight savings/cool factor .


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

bobdurden said:


> Is there anybody who has decided to go with a carbon fork over their Bluto? I'm trying to decide which would be better for me. I originally bought my Sturgis without the Bluto as I was only going to ride it during the winter on flat, well groomed trails.
> 
> I'm having so much fun on it now that i'm considering buying a Bluto for summer riding. For some reason though I keep leaning towards pulling the trigger on Carbon instead for the weight savings/cool factor .


It comes down to personal preference, and I can see both "sides" I think. I ride with the Bluto. Wouldn't want it if this bike were winter use only, but i'm glad to have it for all other seasons.

That said, some days I like to ride retro on my fully rigid original mtb. Reminds me that a lot of suspension can be found in your arms and legs when you have to find it there. It's a little more fatiguing maybe, but not necessarily any less fun...


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

bobdurden said:


> Is there anybody who has decided to go with a carbon fork over their Bluto? I'm trying to decide which would be better for me. I originally bought my Sturgis without the Bluto as I was only going to ride it during the winter on flat, well groomed trails.
> 
> I'm having so much fun on it now that i'm considering buying a Bluto for summer riding. For some reason though I keep leaning towards pulling the trigger on Carbon instead for the weight savings/cool factor .


I bought the NTB frameset with the Bluto, with the intent of selling it and installing a carbon fork. When BD announced their carbon fork, I ordered it immediately.

So far, I've done primarily winter and beach rides, but yesterday I was out in the woods on my 29er hardtail with a few people on fat bikes with rigid forks. They were having a blast on some pretty bony trails. Frankly, there were a few places where I wished that I had a fat rear tire for climbing traction on rocky trails with loose gravel/leaves/needles.

My girlfriend has pretty much decided that her rigid fat bike will be her primary MTB, as it's lighter than her full-suspension 26er and she's having more fun on it. I plan to give mine more of a workout on trails soon. I don't think it will replace the 29er (it's 5# heavier and I like light bikes), but it may well get used more than I thought it would.

As for the Bluto, it will stay in the box for now. Whether you should get one or a rigid fork depends on what kind of riding you like to do. I tend to prefer fast, swoopy, X/C-type trails with significant climbing and descending, but that are not extremely bony or technical. For what I like to do, the 2 pounds of weight saved would probably add more to the fun factor than a more plush front end.

As they say, "your mileage may vary".


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

cfanto said:


> mtb_fun, do you happen to have any pics of your setup w/ the 29er wheels? I'm just curious how it looks w/ the wide Bluto & wide rear tri.


 Sorry I am just now posting pictures, I have been out of town and just got home to take the pictures.


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

mtb_fun said:


> Sorry I am just now posting pictures, I have been out of town and just got home to take the pictures.


Nice! It doesn't look goofy like I thought it would. I may just have to get myself a set as well!


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

How does the 29er ride compared to the fatbike?


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

beachbum1 said:


> How does the 29er ride compared to the fatbike?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It rides great. It climbs much better and it is much more lively. Of course, it does not have the massive amount of traction but that is to be expected. Truthfully, it rides very close to the Kona 29er hardtail I used to have.


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## YJGUY (Mar 16, 2005)

Hello, I'm looking to build my first bike and the Sturgis looks like a nice frame set to start with. I'm good with most parts but I'm not too knowledgeable about cranks and bottom brackets.

I'm a big tall (6' 6") guy so I'm looking for a strong durable crank that will last. I was thinking of this Race Face crank set Shop For Race Face Turbine Double Fat Bike Crank

I'm just not sure if there is anything else I should consider. I'm not fussy about gearing, I'm fat and out of shape, not looking to race others. I also don't know what bottom bracket I should be getting or if the one above come with the necessary BB.

Otherwise, I'm thinking my specs will be:

-	Sturgis XL Frame with Bluto fork
-	XT Shifters
-	XT Derailleurs f/r
-	XT Brakes (203/180)
-	XT Cassette 
-	70mm stem (the built bikes come with a 120mm stem which seems way too long) 
-	Chromag 780mm bars cut down to 760mm or so (I have these bars on my Giant Reign and like them)
-	Rock Shox dropper post
-	Seat - undecided
-	Bikes Direct wheel set
-	KMC Chain
-	ODI Rogue grips
-	Cane Creek head set
-	I have pedals from another bike that I will use
-	Salsa seat post clamp

Am I missing anything else? I was thinking of getting some narrower tires for the summer, any thoughts on that? I might as well get what I need now as the wife doesn't seem to mind.

Thanks!


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

YJGUY said:


> I might as well get what I need now as the wife doesn't seem to mind.
> 
> Thanks!


Truer words have never been said! Seems like a solid build. If the wheelset you're getting from BD comes with Snowshoes, keep em. I really like them for summer riding, on every condition, and was very happy to shed the winter treads for these a month ago. They're OK in the snow, if its a dry snow. Once it gets wet, go big with a Bud/Lou, game changer (for me, anyway). If the wheelset doesn't come with the steel freehub body, I would recommend getting one from BD, even if you're running a spidered XT casette. I think its worth the extra weight on a rear end that undergoes that much torque and flex, especially from a clyde like me. Its a fun bike, you're going to love it.


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## YJGUY (Mar 16, 2005)

Ok, I was wondering about the freehub too, forgot to mention it. Someone else here at work just suggested the same as you, keeping the stock tires for summer but getting something better for the snow. I guess I'll give them a shot. 

As I'm pricing out my parts I've noticed the front derailleur on the built bike is a low direct mount. I'm not seeing anything comparable on the Shimano side, they all look like high mount designs. 

And lastly, can I go with a medium cage for the rear derailleur? 

I'd like to get all of my parts ordered by the end of the day tomorrow so they arrive soon, the weather is finally nice in Ottawa!


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

YJGUY said:


> Ok, I was wondering about the freehub too, forgot to mention it. Someone else here at work just suggested the same as you, keeping the stock tires for summer but getting something better for the snow. I guess I'll give them a shot.
> 
> As I'm pricing out my parts I've noticed the front derailleur on the built bike is a low direct mount. I'm not seeing anything comparable on the Shimano side, they all look like high mount designs.
> 
> ...


Yes, you can go with a medium cage rd. I had an extra medium X9 rd and I replaced the stock long cage X7 rd on my Sturgis Bullet with it. It works fine.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

AthleticAL said:


> If you can "lose" 9gms x 30 holes, that's effectively making each wheel very nearly .6 lbs lighter though. At the rim of a wheel, that's definitely a difference that you will feel.
> 
> Only you can decide what your time is worth, but a lot of cyclists throw a lot of their resources into things that will make a lesser difference.
> 
> Hopefully they stay suitably strong for you.


Alright peeps, the 40mm step bit I ordered arrived. Here's the 1 3/8 hole (that was not enough for me) and the caliper shows how much more material will be taken off IF I SO DECIDE to proceed. What y'all think?


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

2002 Sport said:


> Alright peeps, the 40mm step bit I ordered arrived. Here's the 1 3/8 hole (that was not enough for me) and the caliper shows how much more material will be taken off IF I SO DECIDE to proceed. What y'all think?


I'd be concerned about these locations. If you decide to do it, keep an eye out for cracks.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

I received the BikesDirect $199 carbon fork for my Sturgis Bluto, it looks really nice high-quality, very light but the steerer tube is about 4 inches too tall so I will have to cut that down and it did not come with a star nut for the stem, so I will have to pick up one of those as well. I wish they would've listed that you have to cut down the steer tube in that it did not include the star nut. This should shave off about 2 1/2 pounds


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Does the carbon fork have any water bottle mounts on it? 


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

hartzpad said:


> It did not come with a star nut for the stem, so I will have to pick up one of those as well.


If it's a carbon steerer (and I think it is...), you don't want to be putting a star nut in there. You need one of those compression plugs, specifically for use with carbon steerers.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

beachbum1 said:


> Does the carbon fork have any water bottle mounts on it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, it does not have any.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

MaximumX said:


> If it's a carbon steerer (and I think it is...), you don't want to be putting a star nut in there. You need one of those compression plugs, specifically for use with carbon steerers.


Thank you, I found that out this morning and have a compression plug on the way to install this fork


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

hartzpad said:


> Thank you, I found that out this morning and have a compression plug on the way to install this fork


Also, steer tubes come long because you never know how much a guy needs. I would suggest that you can go shorter but not super short. You can always cut more...


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

tfinator said:


> Also, steer tubes come long because you never know how much a guy needs. I would suggest that you can go shorter but not super short. You can always cut more...


While this is true, it seems that they're a bit ridiculous with the length of steerer tubes considering how little variation there is in the head tube length of fat bikes.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> Did I mention how fun my Sturgis Bullet is?
> 
> Running Snowshoe tires, Q-tubes, mylar rim strips, WTB Pure V saddle, and white ODI Longneck Mushroom grips. No other mods except that Winter camo. Bud & Lou set aside for 3 seasons.
> 
> ...


...Continuing the Sturgis Bullet review after some tight, twisty PA singletrack.
We rode singletrack, and some shared horse trails. Not a ton of rock gardens, but more than a couple. Lots of tight turns, lots of logs, some steep fall-line climbs (horse trails), and lots of debris on the early-season trail in the form of sticks, leaves, and encroaching flora. I also was locked into the pedals for the first time on this bike, and wore usual riding gear.
Regarding pedals: to accommodate the wide Q-factor, I am riding duck-footed (toes outward). I could not ride clipped in with feet straight. It felt very awkward. This would require cleat adjustments, or multiple shoes for owners of more than one bike, but the comfort is worth it.

I was running the stock Snowshoe tires at about 11/9psi (F/R, yes, they are adjusted since last review) with little self-steer, and I finally had to get the air side swapped out of my Bluto fork because it just wasn't working. Well now it's working, but I will probably refer to the Bluto Tuning thread for the application of bottomless tokens. I set the sag at maybe 15% with the damper lockout set on 2 (of 5) and it behaved OK, esp. where steering was concerned, but when I hit it hard it blew through the travel quite easily. The fork was very predictable in any case. btw - don't quote that 15% sag... I throw my weight around quite a bit, so it might be a little more when I'm actually riding in an attack position (which I _try_ to approximate during fork set-up).

The overall weight in general is noticeable. I got it steering pretty well, but at speed I can feel the weight of the wheels on turn-in, or when an abrupt steering correction is required. Same on climbs: I had no trouble finding traction on even the worst horse trail climb, but I still could tell I was hauling an extra 10# around with me. Maybe a justification for carbon wheels, but those are not in the budget.

Once I grew more accustomed to the weight I began carving turns pretty well using those side-knobs, and I became more aware of the brake feel which, again, is pretty good as I kept catching the rider in front of me.

I developed somewhat of a lurching bunnyhop technique (I'm not very good anyway), but most times I just manualed and bumped the front tire over most <8" logs and cleared the rear. I cleared a few double, low-speed uphill logs that were tall enough that I rocked the chainring over them, by being in the right gear and having traction to spare. The rigidity of the bike became obvious in those situations as I was really having to manhandle the weight, but the tires were going right where I was putting them, increasing my chances for success on those low-speed obstacles.

I ended up having a great weekend of riding despite a pinch flat where I hammered the rear tire on a little tombstone hidden in the leaves on the exit of a turn. The sound was such that I figured the HL80 would have to have a huge dent in the bead - it did NOT! ...so +1 for heavy rims  . So I gained a good bit of confidence in the traction, the steering, the braking, and the frame rigidity, which simply leads to more fun.
Even so, other than dabbling in the black art of Bottomless Tokens, I will likely put the fatbike away for most of the Summer and get the 29er back out, but I know if I need a back-up bike or a loaner, no one will mind riding the Bullet.

-F

PS - the non-drive side bearing retainer on the rear hub was loose. I tightened it with no issues. It does not have a locknut. Maybe it came loose when I changed my flat.

edit2: a post below reminded me that indeed, the q-factor caused a few pedal hits through tight gaps, but they were absurd attempts at riding through stuff that most people wouldn't try anyway. I did squeek through, though. :thumbsup:


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

I posted elsewhere, but I did the archipelago ride in San Diego this week. It came out to about 55mi and 5k feet climbing. Had a good time on the NTB, but my back is killing me!


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

I've got an orange 17.5 Sturgis frame set on the way. I already have an 80mm Bluto and will be installing that instead of the 120mm Bluto that comes with it. The 80mm handles much better than the 100mm it was at originally and brought the front end of my Lurch down to the height it was at with the stock rigid fork.

I got all the parts stripped off the Lurch in preparation for the new Sturgis frame.

Before









After


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

dgw2jr said:


> I've got an orange 17.5 Sturgis frame set on the way. I already have an 80mm Bluto and will be installing that instead of the 120mm Bluto that comes with it. The 80mm handles much better than the 100mm it was at originally and brought the front end of my Lurch down to the height it was at with the stock rigid fork.
> 
> I got all the parts stripped off the Lurch in preparation for the new Sturgis frame.


hey, I'm doing the same Lurch to Sturgis upgrade!! Well, I was until I realised that I had upgraded enough parts on the Lurch that I could almost return it to stock and be able to build the Sturgis complete. Trying to decide if I want to get the BD 29er wheelset for summer or spend even more $$ and go for some 26x65mm carbon rims. As it is I've got 90mm Nexties with 'Dozers, but that might be too much rubber for dry trails.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Just rode to the office on ~8 miles of muddy singletrack on the NTB. It feels much faster than my FB4!

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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

MaximumX said:


> hey, I'm doing the same Lurch to Sturgis upgrade!! Well, I was until I realised that I had upgraded enough parts on the Lurch that I could almost return it to stock and be able to build the Sturgis complete. Trying to decide if I want to get the BD 29er wheelset for summer or spend even more $$ and go for some 26x65mm carbon rims. As it is I've got 90mm Nexties with 'Dozers, but that might be too much rubber for dry trails.


The 29er wheelset is worth the money I think. They roll decent and set up tubeless easily with the WTB rim tape and a pair of Ikons. Took 10 pounds off the weight of the bike!


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

I've been toying with the idea of the 29" wheels, but I'm having a hard time justifying the idea of dropping money into a hardtail 29er with such a large Q factor and a fat-specific fork when I already have a full suspension ride that's sub 30 lbs and is a ton of fun. The full suspension 29 is definitely faster and more comfortable in the rocky/rooty northeast than my fat is with the 80mm rims and larger tires. 

When it comes down to it, I think I'm personally more interested in optimizing the winter setup with 90mm carbon rims rather than trying to make it a summer rig. 

Thoughts? Opinions? I'm definitely open to hearing other views and reviews from those who've made this thing a summer rig. 


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

Higgins17 said:


> I've been toying with the idea of the 29" wheels, but I'm having a hard time justifying the idea of dropping money into a hardtail 29er with such a large Q factor and a fat-specific fork when I already have a full suspension ride that's sub 30 lbs and is a ton of fun. The full suspension 29 is definitely faster and more comfortable in the rocky/rooty northeast than my fat is with the 80mm rims and larger tires.
> 
> When it comes down to it, I think I'm personally more interested in optimizing the winter setup with 90mm carbon rims rather than trying to make it a summer rig.
> 
> Thoughts? Opinions? I'm definitely open to hearing other views and reviews from those who've made this thing a summer rig.


If you've already got a summer rig then there is not much value in turning this bike into another summer rig. I only have the one bike so that's why I went with the 29er wheels.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

dgw2jr said:


> If you've already got a summer rig then there is not much value in turning this bike into another summer rig. I only have the one bike so that's why I went with the 29er wheels.


Makes sense though I'm still very interested in hearing performance reviews about it as a 29 (or perhaps even a 650b+?). I do love the idea of having a fun, fast hardtail.

I've heard in some cases, people are running 170mm wide cranks which definitely would bring it closer to manageable for summer riding.

...oh the options! Love the frankenbike concept.

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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

Higgins17 said:


> Makes sense though I'm still very interested in hearing performance reviews about it as a 29 (or perhaps even a 650b+?). I do love the idea of having a fun, fast hardtail.
> 
> I've heard in some cases, people are running 170mm wide cranks which definitely would bring it closer to manageable for summer riding.
> 
> ...oh the options! Love the frankenbike concept.


I tend to have a wide stance anyway so the q-factor doesn't bother me. However, there are some occasions where the q-factor is too wide to squeeze between some boulders but that doesn't happen often enough to be considered a problem.

The only performance review I can give that's not just seat of the pants is from a race I did a few weeks ago. 16.4 miles with 2,000 feet of elevation gain. I trained on the course with the fat wheels and tires but raced on the 29er wheels with Ikons set up tubeless. I completed the course 25 minutes faster in 29er mode vs fat mode.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I am thinking of purchasing the 29+ wheelset, as I do not have a 29-specific (or any other thin-tire bike) to use.

If i had a second bike like the poster above, I don't think I would spend the money.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

For those who have crankbrother egg beater pedals and want lower Q factor, I recall someone selling shorter axles? Have not heard of anyone trying this on a fatbike so YMMV


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

Well I kinda figured this would happen but they got my hopes up. Delivery was scheduled for Thursday. But today UPS shows that they picked it up again (how?) and rescheduled delivery for Friday. Looks like we'll have to cancel our trip to Moab this weekend. :madman:


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

joebikesdirect said:


> For those who have crankbrother egg beater pedals and want lower Q factor, I recall someone selling shorter axles? Have not heard of anyone trying this on a fatbike so YMMV


Hi Joe, any word on the alternate derailleur hanger for the night trains?


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Note: The following is meant as a data point and should not be cause for concern, as I believe it's an uncommon failure. 

I've been on my NTB since November and roughly 1,000 miles. Yesterday, on a moderate climb, the rear hub began slipping. The pawls are engaging the ratchet ring, but the cassette and freehub do not turn the wheel under load. It is not skipping, but spinning smoothly. After twice pulling and inspecting the freehub(pawls and ratchet teeth intact and pawl springs functioning), I reinstalled to find the same problem. It appears that the ratchet ring itself has stripped(the threads where it engages the hub), meaning the shell is surely toasted.

I'm gonna drop by the lbs later to verify what I already know. I'm not sure if this is something that would, or even should, be covered under warranty (someone know the component coverage off hand?). FTR, I run about 200#, and am not an overly powerful climber. This is the first hub failure(bearings excluded) I've encountered in ~5 years/12,000+ miles of riding.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

AllMountin' said:


> Note: The following is meant as a data point and should not be cause for concern, as I believe it's an uncommon failure.
> 
> I've been on my NTB since November and roughly 1,000 miles. Yesterday, on a moderate climb, the rear hub began slipping. The pawls are engaging the ratchet ring, but the cassette and freehub do not turn the wheel under load. It is not skipping, but spinning smoothly. After twice pulling and inspecting the freehub(pawls and ratchet teeth intact and pawl springs functioning), I reinstalled to find the same problem. It appears that the ratchet ring itself has stripped(the threads where it engages the hub), meaning the shell is surely toasted.
> 
> I'm gonna drop by the lbs later to verify what I already know. I'm not sure if this is something that would, or even should, be covered under warranty (someone know the component coverage off hand?). FTR, I run about 200#, and am not an overly powerful climber. This is the first hub failure(bearings excluded) I've encountered in ~5 years/12,000+ miles of riding.


Steel or aluminum freehub body? Not sure it matters either way, just curious.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Aluminum. Had to remove the cassette cogs individually, but that wasn't a big surprise.


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## Drumznut (Apr 23, 2015)

Need some insight and opinions. The 15.5" Sturgis and Night Train rigid complete bikes list the standover at 27.897". When they use the Bluto 120mm for the Bullet versions of the bikes, the description lists a double asterisk pointing out to add another inch to the standover measurement for Bluto equipped bikes.

Would the Bluto 100mm, which is about 3/4" shorter from axle to crown, be the better/best choice of fork to get closer to the original geometry? I guess the main question would be, is the Bluto 120mm the best size fork for that frame/bike or is the 100mm or 80mm an actual better size and choice if you had that option?

Thanks for your opinion!!


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

Drumznut said:


> Need some insight and opinions. The 15.5" Sturgis and Night Train rigid complete bikes list the standover at 27.897". When they use the Bluto 120mm for the Bullet versions of the bikes, the description lists a double asterisk pointing out to add another inch to the standover measurement for Bluto equipped bikes.
> 
> Would the Bluto 100mm, which is about 3/4" shorter from axle to crown, be the better/best choice of fork to get closer to the original geometry? I guess the main question would be, is the Bluto 120mm the best size fork for that frame/bike or is the 100mm or 80mm an actual better size and choice if you had that option?
> 
> Thanks for your opinion!!


That 1 inch is a lie. It's more than that, closer to 2 inches. I took my Bluto down from 100 to 80 which got the BB height back down to 12.5 inches from 14 inches when sagged. 80mm handles so much better.


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## Drumznut (Apr 23, 2015)

dgw2jr said:


> That 1 inch is a lie. It's more than that, closer to 2 inches. I took my Bluto down from 100 to 80 which got the BB height back down to 12.5 inches from 14 inches when sagged. 80mm handles so much better.


Interesting to hear that... I asked this question because I had a feeling it may be off more than an inch from an alloy fork but I don't have both bikes to confirm that.

Now I'd really like to see side by side measurements of an alloy fork bike and a Bluto bike.

So the 80mm rides and handles a lot better? Anybody else care to chime in?


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I think the 120 causes the front to wander a bit in the climbs. I have had to put all my spacers on top of my stem to get my bar as low as possible as well as increase the sag on the bluto to compensate. I think definitely 100 would be better than 120 unless you are bombing down sketchy descents and want a lower HTA. I would do it but I'm kinda lazy. 


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

beachbum1 said:


> I think the 120 causes the front to wander a bit in the climbs. I have had to put all my spacers on top of my stem to get my bar as low as possible as well as increase the sag on the bluto to compensate. I think definitely 100 would be better than 120 unless you are bombing down sketchy descents and want a lower HTA. I would do it but I'm kinda lazy.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

I had my large Sturgis Bullet with 120mm Bluto out on some very steep climbs (review above at #2206). It would probably be a bit quicker steering at 100mm, but it is quite stable and didn't wander for me at all even on the steepest of fall line climbs. It is kind of a big step to get on the thing, even for me at 6'-3", but that is really a small matter. I like the chainring/pedal clearance, and the head angle is pretty close to my other bike.

-F


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Fleas said:


> I had my large Sturgis Bullet with 120mm Bluto out on some very steep climbs (review above at #2206). It would probably be a bit quicker steering at 100mm, but it is quite stable and didn't wander for me at all even on the steepest of fall line climbs. It is kind of a big step to get on the thing, even for me at 6'-3", but that is really a small matter. I like the chainring/pedal clearance, and the head angle is pretty close to my other bike.
> -F


It's probably less of an issue for taller/longer-legged riders, since the bars are lower relative to the saddle. Shorter riders are limited by the relatively high head tube.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Good point. I'm 5' 8"( and 3/4). 

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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

I've got a medium size 17.5" Sturgis Bullet with a 120mm Bluto, I'm 5'11" and run a short 70mm stem. I hate the 120mm Bluto and just ordered a carbon fork to replace it. It bottoms way too easily and the front end is a good 2" higher than it should be and easily lifts even if I'm way forward on the seat and leaning over the bars. Now, it doesn't help that I'm running a shorter stem and the bike is too small for me (I went wtih a Medium based on BikesDirect's recommendations, should have gone with a Large).

With the 120mm Bluto, the front end lifts on climbs and seems very unpredictable on singletrack downhills with lots of self steer and twitchiness. I believe that there is a good reason why Specialized and many others recommend only an 80mm Bluto on their bikes.

I'll let you know how much better it is with the carbon fork I'm installing. I'm also going back to a 100mm stem to give me more room and to see if that helps keep the front end from lifting. Just swapping out the Bluto will be dropping 1135 grams which is 2.5 lbs, very significant especially for the "poor" performane of the Bluto.

I ride a 19" Large Stumpjumper FSR 29er with a 60mm stem and it fits me like a glove, I should have gotten a size L Sturgis without a Bluto.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

hatzpad- if you are having performance issues with your Bluto, you might want to check out this thread. 
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/bluto-tuning-thread-921527.html


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Bnystrom said:


> It's probably less of an issue for taller/longer-legged riders, since the bars are lower relative to the saddle. Shorter riders are limited by the relatively high head tube.


Yes, good point. On a smaller bike (with high front) with a smaller rider there's small chance that they will be able to move forward and transfer as much weight as a larger rider. It's working well for me because when I lean back a bit, the front wheel is just skimming along. When I lean up for steering traction I can almost unweight the rear. I'm sure someone with shorter limbs can't duplicate that same effect with high (29er/fat) handlebars.



hartzpad said:


> I've got a medium size 17.5" Sturgis Bullet with a 120mm Bluto, I'm 5'11" and run a short 70mm stem. I hate the 120mm Bluto and just ordered a carbon fork to replace it. It bottoms way too easily and the front end is a good 2" higher than it should be and easily lifts even if I'm way forward on the seat and leaning over the bars. Now, it doesn't help that I'm running a shorter stem and the bike is too small for me (I went wtih a Medium based on BikesDirect's recommendations, should have gone with a Large).
> 
> With the 120mm Bluto, the front end lifts on climbs and seems very unpredictable on singletrack downhills with lots of self steer and twitchiness. I believe that there is a good reason why Specialized and many others recommend only an 80mm Bluto on their bikes.
> 
> ...


Bluto tuning is a whole 'nother issue. I could see if it's too long AND you can't tune it to how you want, it will be near useless. Selling a 120mm Bluto shouldn't be too difficult, though.

-F


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

It's about $80 to $90 to change travel on Blutos by changing the Solo Air Spring assembly

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/7847530077083828102

video on how to change this out-


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

joebikesdirect said:


> It's about $80 to $90 to change travel on Blutos by changing the Solo Air Spring assembly


I got my Bluto travel adjustment parts from Universal Cycles for less than $60. It was $32 for the air spring, $17.50 for a 5 pack of bottomless tokens, and $4 for the fork oil.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

dgw2jr said:


> I got my Bluto travel adjustment parts from Universal Cycles for less than $60. It was $32 for the air spring, $17.50 for a 5 pack of bottomless tokens, and $4 for the fork oil.


WOW - that's a good deal


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

dgw2jr said:


> I got my Bluto travel adjustment parts from Universal Cycles for less than $60. It was $32 for the air spring, $17.50 for a 5 pack of bottomless tokens, and $4 for the fork oil.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

dgw2jr said:


> I got my Bluto travel adjustment parts from Universal Cycles for less than $60. It was $32 for the air spring, $17.50 for a 5 pack of bottomless tokens, and $4 for the fork oil.


I've read this whole thread and am really leaning toward going from 120mm to 100mm or 80mm. I understand that I need to pull together a shopping list of slick honey, air spring, 5 pack or bottomless tokens and fork oil.

My main question is to people who have made a similar switch and whether you regret it. I'm leaning toward 100mm or 80mm to get a bit more of an aggressive geometry and to tighten things up a bit. I'll be riding 75% winter and 25% the other three seasons.

Thanks!!

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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

I'm 5'10, running a large Sturgis Bullet. At first I thought the 120mm was a little tall in the front, but soon got used to it. Then I added tokens, rebuilt with slick honey, and the setup is perfect, if not down right awesome. With the wide Q, a lower bottom bracket is going to hang up on everything. A Bluto set up 80mm on the front would ruin this bike.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

The bike is slacker than I like, but I find it's great on the down. The BB height is excellent, and still good even though I changed to fat b nimble tires. The self steer disappeared with the tire change. All in all it isn't worth it to me to change to 100mm ( for now). 80mm is out of the question


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

watermonkey said:


> I'm 5'10, running a large Sturgis Bullet. At first I thought the 120mm was a little tall in the front, but soon got used to it. Then I added tokens, rebuilt with slick honey, and the setup is perfect, if not down right awesome. With the wide Q, a lower bottom bracket is going to hang up on everything. A Bluto set up 80mm on the front would ruin this bike.





tfinator said:


> The bike is slacker than I like, but I find it's great on the down. The BB height is excellent, and still good even though I changed to fat b nimble tires. The self steer disappeared with the tire change. All in all it isn't worth it to me to change to 100mm ( for now). 80mm is out of the question


Yes, 80mm would be too short on the SB.

-F


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

Anyone wanna measure the BB height on their 120mm Bluto Sturgis?


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## doctor_spaceman (Sep 6, 2014)

I've done some upgrading the past couple months, put some race face turbine cranks and went 1x with a narrow wide ring. I love the narrower stance. Feels much more natural, I can toss this thing through a few dirt jumps now. I went tubeless with the split tube method. Those hl80 rims gave me some serious hell with the tape method and I could not get them to hold air. I could use some tips on tuning the bluto, that will be my next project. Overall though This bike just inspires confidence in my riding. I'm crushing rock gardens and still get the flow on the single track I'm thinking of even maybe going down in size on the tires for the summer.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Nice Drspaceman^^
I would consider changing the tire to FatBNimble over the Snowshoes... I only replaced the rear and it made a big difference. Also drilled out 32 - 3/4 inch holes in the rim, replaced the rim strip and dropped around 300 grms in the process. I also went with narrower Q Turbines 1x and love it! :thumbsup:


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

I just swapped in Bikes Direct's carbon Fat Fork on my Sturgis Bullet. The bike is now 2.5 lbs. lighter and noticeably lighter when you pick up the bike or try to wheelie it. I measured and from the front axle to the lower headset of the frame, the Bluto at 120mm is exactly 2" taller than the carbon fork. I'll take it out on the singetrack trails this afternoon to see if this cures my twitchy/lifting front end during climbs. Also swapped from a 70mm to a 100mm stem to see if that helps as well.


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

hartzpad said:


> I just swapped in Bikes Direct's carbon Fat Fork on my Sturgis Bullet. The bike is now 2.5 lbs. lighter and noticeably lighter when you pick up the bike or try to wheelie it. I measured and from the front axle to the lower headset of the frame, the Bluto at 120mm is exactly 2" taller than the carbon fork. I'll take it out on the singetrack trails this afternoon to see if this cures my twitchy/lifting front end during climbs. Also swapped from a 70mm to a 100mm stem to see if that helps as well.


That would make the axle to crown length of the carbon fork about 10mm shorter than the 80mm Bluto. Thanks!

Wow, the red frame looks really good... Is that a medium or large?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

hartzpad said:


> I just swapped in Bikes Direct's carbon Fat Fork on my Sturgis Bullet. The bike is now 2.5 lbs. lighter and noticeably lighter when you pick up the bike or try to wheelie it. I measured and from the front axle to the lower headset of the frame, the Bluto at 120mm is exactly 2" taller than the carbon fork. I'll take it out on the singetrack trails this afternoon to see if this cures my twitchy/lifting front end during climbs. Also swapped from a 70mm to a 100mm stem to see if that helps as well.
> 
> View attachment 986952
> 
> ...


Do these measured dimensions account for Bluto sag...say a middle of the road 20%?


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

Axle to crown lengths

Bikes Direct Carbon Fat Fork: 480mm

Bluto: 491mm (80mm Travel); 511mm (100mm Travel); 531mm (120mm Travel)

So the 120mm sagged 20% would have an 'effective' A2C of 507mm.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

dgw2jr said:


> That would make the axle to crown length of the carbon fork about 10mm shorter than the 80mm Bluto. Thanks!
> 
> Wow, the red frame looks really good... Is that a medium or large?


It's a medium 17.5" and I wish I had ordered a Large, I'm 5'11 w/ a 32" inseam and feel a little cramped wih the 70mm stem. I went with the recommendations of Bikes Direct on size.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

watermonkey said:


> Do these measured dimensions account for Bluto sag...say a middle of the road 20%?


No sag accounted for, good point. It's likely 1.25" shorter when you consider sag. Although, when climbing, my Bluto is almost completey unweighted.


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

hartzpad said:


> It's a medium 17.5" and I wish I had ordered a Large, I'm 5'11 w/ a 32" inseam and feel a little cramped wih the 70mm stem. I went with the recommendations of Bikes Direct on size.


I'm also 5'11 with 32" inseam. I've been riding a large Lurch and it's too big for me. Barely any standover and since I prefer a 100mm stem I went with the medium Sturgis frame. I figured if I enjoy drifting my wife's bike through the gravel in the yard then I would probably enjoy a slightly smaller frame out on the trails =P


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

dgw2jr said:


> I'm also 5'11 with 32" inseam. I've been riding a large Lurch and it's too big for me. Barely any standover and since I prefer a 100mm stem I went with the medium Sturgis frame. I figured if I enjoy drifting my wife's bike through the gravel in the yard then I would probably enjoy a slightly smaller frame out on the trails =P


Wanna trade Lurches? I've got a Med (1st gen though) and would prefer a large. You're in Salt Lake. I make it to GJ and Moab fairly often.


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

watermonkey said:


> Wanna trade Lurches? I've got a Med (1st gen though) and would prefer a large. You're in Salt Lake. I make it to GJ and Moab fairly often.


PM'd


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

dgw2jr said:


> PM'd


Let us know if this works out. I want to share in the feel goods.
Also pics.


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

Sturgis maiden voyage in Moab. Should have taken more pics!


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

dgw2jr said:


> Sturgis maiden voyage in Moab. Should have taken more pics!


Eeeeewwww. That all looks so skinny


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

hartzpad said:


> I just swapped in Bikes Direct's carbon Fat Fork on my Sturgis Bullet. ... I'll take it out on the singetrack trails this afternoon to see if this cures my twitchy/lifting front end during climbs.


Let us know how it rides with the carbon fork vs the Bluto.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

GT_guy said:


> Let us know how it rides with the carbon fork vs the Bluto.


I can't, it's been raining cats and dogs for 3 days straight, in Utah that means you stay off the trails for several days or you will destroy them.

I rode it on the street and the weight savings is very noticeable, turns more crisp, but I really want to see if it improved the climbing when I get on the trails


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## Guest (May 10, 2015)

hartzpad said:


> I can't, it's been raining cats and dogs for 3 days straight, in Utah that means you stay off the trails for several days or you will destroy them.


 We just got between 3 and 7 inches of rain in about 12 hours and can't use parts of our MUP system until repaired. It washed away gravel, unearthed timbers, mud-packed a few areas. What a mess.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

*Mid-Fat?*

Anyone try a set of these Panaracer Fat B Nimbles yet?
Amazon.com : Panaracer Fat B Nimble Fold Tire, 26 x 4.0, Black : Sports & Outdoors
Looks like a great summer tire plus a nice bit of weight loss (just over a pound lighter for the pair)!


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Dolbydarma said:


> Anyone try a set of these Panaracer Fat B Nimbles yet?
> Amazon.com : Panaracer Fat B Nimble Fold Tire, 26 x 4.0, Black : Sports & Outdoors
> Looks like a great summer tire plus a nice bit of weight loss!


I have them on my NTB. Amazing tire. They transform this bike into such an enjoyable ride.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Are you running them on the standard 80mm rims?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Dolbydarma said:


> Are you running them on the standard 80mm rims?


No. 65mm Ican carbons. However, I ran the snowshoes on those same rims before I got the Fat Bs. Carbon rims made a bit of difference on their own but felt the most change when I put on the Fat Bs.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Dolbydarma said:


> Anyone try a set of these Panaracer Fat B Nimbles yet?
> Amazon.com : Panaracer Fat B Nimble Fold Tire, 26 x 4.0, Black : Sports & Outdoors
> Looks like a great summer tire plus a nice bit of weight loss (just over a pound lighter for the pair)!


I've written a few posts about this and I think it's just a couple of pages back. I also have written in the FBN thread.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I just pulled the trigger on the 29er wheelset from BD. I'm pretty psyched to drop some mad weight.



mtb_fun said:


> Sorry I am just now posting pictures, I have been out of town and just got home to take the pictures.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Considered this , 29ers ^^^, but could not give up the benies of the big tire traction, climbing grip and comfort. Actually looking to lighten it up a bit with some new DT Swiss 710 rims at 677 grams for the 81mm's! 4.0 tires are also getting lighter...so I think I'll just grow some bigger legs to go with the fat tires meant for this bike!


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Considered this , 29ers ^^^, but could not give up the benies of the big tire traction, climbing grip and comfort. Actually looking to lighten it up a bit with some new DT Swiss 710 rims at 677 grams for the 81mm's! 4.0 tires are also getting lighter...so I think I'll just grow some bigger legs to go with the fat tires meant for this bike!


My thought exactly!


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

I have had zero luck with these Tektro brakes behaving well in the 3 months I've had my Sturgis. I broke them in in Feb, when I got the bike. Not ideal conditions, admittedly, for bedding in pads to rotors. Too much snow and ice only requiring a light touch on the brakes. 

So they howled. Like sumbiatches. Front and rear. And so I sanded the rotors pretty hard. Radially. And alcoholed the bejeezus outta the pads. And they howled some more, despite my efforts.

So I bought some new rotors. Nothin' fancy. Alcoholed the bejeezus outta the pads. Again. Put on the new rotors and bedded the pads properly.

Back brake is now powerful and quiet. Front... howls

Sonofa...


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

AthleticAL said:


> I have had zero luck with these Tektro brakes behaving well in the 3 months I've had my Sturgis. I broke them in in Feb, when I got the bike. Not ideal conditions, admittedly, for bedding in pads to rotors. Too much snow and ice only requiring a light touch on the brakes.
> 
> So they howled. Like sumbiatches. Front and rear. And so I sanded the rotors pretty hard. Radially. And alcoholed the bejeezus outta the pads. And they howled some more, despite my efforts.
> 
> ...


Pad material?
I've noticed the sram guides are great until they're wet. Then they screeeeeeeeech.
When I wear this set down I'll be looking at other pad material.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

Seems like on group rides this winter, everyone's brakes screeched at some point, usually when it was wet.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

Does anybody ride a Sturgis or Night Train with 40mm stem? Is that too short? I like the way my 29er feels with a 60mm Hussefelt, and I bought a few of these in 40mm for my daughters' rides.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

ETChipotle said:


> Does anybody ride a Sturgis or Night Train with 40mm stem? Is that too short? I like the way my 29er feels with a 60mm Hussefelt, and I bought a few of these in 40mm for my daughters' rides.


I have a 40mm stem on mine. I love it. Depends on how you like your bikes to handle. I can't stand long stems that make you feel like you are steering a boat. If I could go shorter than a 40, I would.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

ETChipotle said:


> Does anybody ride a Sturgis or Night Train with 40mm stem? Is that too short? I like the way my 29er feels with a 60mm Hussefelt, and I bought a few of these in 40mm for my daughters' rides.


I'd just try it. My personal opinion is that for a snow bike (primarily), a longer stem is an advantage as it helps with stability. If you're riding mostly dirt/sand maybe the 40mm will work for you. The shortest I've ever gone is 50mm on the NTB and an xc 29er and I found it to be a big disadvantage on rocky and rooty sections, especially on flat and climbs. I ended up back on a 75mm on both the NTB and 29er which is my happy place for my terrain, bike geometry, handlebar length, and riding style. YMMV.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

I run 40mm, with a little rise and a riser bar. Works great for my purposes, and is meant to mimic the cockpit of my AM hardtail.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

ETChipotle said:


> Does anybody ride a Sturgis or Night Train with 40mm stem? Is that too short? I like the way my 29er feels with a 60mm Hussefelt, and I bought a few of these in 40mm for my daughters' rides.


What's important here is that your bike fits *you* properly. Unless you can find someone with the same body proportions and degree of flexibility, what other people use is largely irrelevant. You don't specify either your dimensions or your frame size, so I'll speak in generalities.

A general guideline is:

Your frame size (seat tube length), should be proportional to your leg length 
Your top tube length should be proportional to your torso length 
Your stem length should be proportional to your arm length 

Given that, unless the top tube on your frame is longer than ideal, you like to sit really upright and/or you have arms like a T-Rex, it's not likely that a 40mm stem is going to be ideal for you. :winker: OTOH, unless you're built like me, with long arms and legs, and a relatively short torso, you wouldn't be happy on the 19" frame with a 375mm seatpost and 120mm stem that fits me perfectly.

Seriously, changing the stem length on a bike changes a lot of things, not the least of which is the weight distribution. A tiny stem results in less weight on the front wheel, which reduces cornering traction and makes it more difficult to keep the front wheel down on climbs. It can be an advantage on descents, since it helps to prevent too much forward weight shift, which is one reason why you see tiny stems on downhill bikes.

Personally, I don't buy into the idea that any given stem length is going to magically transform the steering of a bike. If your bike is properly fitted to your proportions, flexibility and riding style, it will handle fine regardless of the exact size of the stem or any other individual component. It's a system and all the parts need to work in harmony. If it's not fitted right, you're going to have issues.

Nobody here can tell you if a 40mm stem is ideal for you, given what little information we have. If your 29er fits you well and you like the way it handles, compare it's dimensions to your fat bike and set it up accordingly. That's exactly what I did with my two Motobecanes.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Ugh! Just broke my NTB's chain. Should have shifted before the grade.......

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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Ugh! Just broke my NTB's chain. Should have shifted before the grade.......
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Stock KMC chain? I broke mine too. Just getting started on the ride and not much of a grade. Probably the 5th ride on the bike.

First chain I have broken in years.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

trailwerks said:


> Stock KMC chain? I broke mine too. Just getting started on the ride and not much of a grade. Probably the 5th ride on the bike.
> 
> First chain I have broken in years.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What did you replace yours with?

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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

WhiskeyJr said:


> What did you replace yours with?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good ol Sram pc-1051

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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

trailwerks said:


> Good ol Sram pc-1051
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just had the same installed.

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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

WhiskeyJr said:


> I just had the same installed.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Chains are funny like that. So many people bash sram chains yet the KMC was bad for you guys.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I have no basis for any comparisons, other than my anecdotal evidence from personal experience. Please note, I didn't complain about my original chain, I firmly believe user error caused my particular failure.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

WhiskeyJr said:


> I have no basis for any comparisons, other than my anecdotal evidence from personal experience. Please note, I didn't complain about my original chain, I firmly believe user error caused my particular failure.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't doubt it and I'm not arguing with anyone. I just think chains are funny cause everybody has a different opinion on which ones suck and which ones are bomb proof.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

I'm the guy that replaced his 120mm Bluto on his Sturgis Bullet for BD's own carbon fork. I finally had a chance to get on the trails with it today........amazing difference. Bike feels noticeable lighter having lost 2.5 lbs. up front and went from a 70mm stem to a 100mm and the bike climbs so much better now. Cornering is even better now with the front tire having much more traction, especially on uphill corners or switchbacks, no more wandering and floating.

Overall, I miss some of the bump compliance of the Bluto, but wouldn't switch back. I was surprised how much faster I seems to climb but I will say that the longer 100mm stem is taking some getting used to with the steering. Wish I had bought a Size L Sturgis so I could run a 60 or 70mm stem.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

tfinator said:


> I don't doubt it and I'm not arguing with anyone. I just think chains are funny cause everybody has a different opinion on which ones suck and which ones are bomb proof.


It also depends on the level of chain within a manufacturer's line. Chains are one easy place for bike companies to cut corners and save a few bucks, since the differences aren't obvious.

Higher-end chains are pretty much all good. For example, between my girlfriend and myself, we have KMC X10SL chains on at least 7 bikes and we've never had a problem with them, no breakage and they last a long time. You can get them on Ebay for ~$35. There are others in their line designed for enhanced durability that are less expensive.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> ...Continuing the Sturgis Bullet review after some tight, twisty PA singletrack....
> 
> -F
> 
> PS - the non-drive side bearing retainer on the rear hub was loose. I tightened it with no issues. It does not have a locknut. Maybe it came loose when I changed my flat.


The NDS rear hub bearing retainer came loose again. Not sure why the thru-axle won't hold it together. Over-tightening the retainer causes drag on the hub. Not sure what's going on there. It has an o-ring seal on it, but I can't believe that hub rotation can exert enough torque on it to loosen it, unless the hub is really flexy.

-F


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Bnystrom said:


> It also depends on the level of chain within a manufacturer's line. Chains are one easy place for bike companies to cut corners and save a few bucks, since the differences aren't obvious.
> 
> Higher-end chains are pretty much all good. For example, between my girlfriend and myself, we have KMC X10SL chains on at least 7 bikes and we've never had a problem with them, no breakage and they last a long time. You can get them on Ebay for ~$35. There are others in their line designed for enhanced durability that are less expensive.


Haha. See I'm the exact opposite. I've had nice chains fail. I now always buy 105/ deore level chains because I feel like the last place I want weight savings is in the chain. No hollow pins or plates with little cuts in them for me! 
Chains are one of the black boxes left in the bike world. Nobody seems to know why they actually work the way they do.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Fleas said:


> The NDS rear hub bearing retainer came loose again. Not sure why the thru-axle won't hold it together. Over-tightening the retainer causes drag on the hub. Not sure what's going on there. It has an o-ring seal on it, but I can't believe that hub rotation can exert enough torque on it to loosen it, unless the hub is really flexy.-F


Can you post a pic of the rear hub? I'm having a hard time visualizing what you're referring to, as most thru axle hubs have press-in end caps, not a threaded bearing retainer.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

tfinator said:


> Haha. See I'm the exact opposite. I've had nice chains fail. I now always buy 105/ deore level chains because I feel like the last place I want weight savings is in the chain. No hollow pins or plates with little cuts in them for me!
> Chains are one of the black boxes left in the bike world. Nobody seems to know why they actually work the way they do.


I certainly understand your rationale, but the only chains I've ever had fail have been cheap ones, but they weren't Shimano and I have no idea how they would compare to a 105 chain. It may also have to do with weight (I'm ~175#) and riding/shifting style makes a huge difference as well. Regardless, if you've found something that works for you, stick with it.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Bnystrom said:


> I certainly understand your rationale, but the only chains I've ever had fail have been cheap ones, but they weren't Shimano and I have no idea how they would compare to a 105 chain. It may also have to do with weight (I'm ~175#) and riding/shifting style makes a huge difference as well. Regardless, if you've found something that works for you, stick with it.


Exactly. I'm only 145/150. But chains are somehow different for everyone.
I've had no issues with my NTB chain though


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## Drumznut (Apr 23, 2015)

Hey all, I'm struggling on what my options are for a 2x10 crankset for my frame build-up. What options do I have that won't break the bank? I'm building this bike for a 17 year old and I don't want to go too crazy with the cost.

Will the fat bike Sram x5 and/or x9 crankset fit okay on the bullet frame? 

What else will fit this frame correctly? Thanks for your suggestions!


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

Great ride today on the Sturgis Bullet with carbon fork, climbs much easier than with the 120mm Bluto


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Hmmmm... No proofreaders at the Kinesis plant, it seems.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

MaximumX said:


> Hmmmm... No proofreaders at the Kinesis plant, it seems.
> 
> View attachment 988746


Same both sides?

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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Is it like that on both sides? Maybe they shortened it to make it look better on the small frame. It's full length on my 19".


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Okay, quit picking on the stumpy-legged!! ;-)

Yes, the "E" is present on the NDS and looks perfectly proportionate and symmetrical! If only I could say the same for my Cinch crankset... Gonna head down to the LBS and see if they have an extra 30mm BB spacer.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Well everybody. My 29er wheelset came in. Aside from a missing hub cap( which BD is sending me one) it seems to be in good shape. I decided to try out the 29+ thing on these rims. They are 30mm rims which is smaller than the recommended 35 mm for surly 3 inch tires. From what I have read Fat B Nimble tires measure out at 2.8 inches in 50 mm rims so I'm gonna give those a try. Should be coming in a week from now. I plan on measuring the BB height and tire width for the stock snowshoes, 2.2 Bronson's, and Fat B nimbles. Anyone else need any other measurements?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> The NDS rear hub bearing retainer came loose again. Not sure why the thru-axle won't hold it together. Over-tightening the retainer causes drag on the hub. Not sure what's going on there. It has an o-ring seal on it, but I can't believe that hub rotation can exert enough torque on it to loosen it, unless the hub is really flexy.
> 
> -F





Bnystrom said:


> Can you post a pic of the rear hub? I'm having a hard time visualizing what you're referring to, as most thru axle hubs have press-in end caps, not a threaded bearing retainer.


The circled piece is threaded. The larger diameter section is thinner, with an o-ring around the perimeter, but it is one piece with the part that looks like a spacer. It threads onto the hollow axle. The thru-axle goes through that. Inside is a replaceable cartridge bearing. You can see that if the hub body somehow grabs it, it will loosen.








-F


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## Guest (May 16, 2015)

MaximumX said:


> Hmmmm... No proofreaders at the Kinesis plant, it seems.
> 
> View attachment 988746


If you're going "typo" I prefer "MOTOBACON".


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## dgw2jr (Aug 17, 2011)

Better to have a Motobecan than a Motobecan't!


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Mmmmm.... Bacon...

Well here is its good side. The whole thing's starting look more like a bike now!


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Couldn't figure out what looked weird, than I realized it... No holes in those rims.


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Dolbydarma said:


> Couldn't figure out what looked weird, than I realized it... No holes in those rims.


Not yet! ;-)


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Colorado Springs is a pretty dry place. Normally for the first half of May we get less than a quarter inch of rain, except this year where we got almost 7.5" inches the first 15 days. But today it was finally dry enough to get back out!

This trail starts off with a long 3 mile climb, but than you get downhill options galore!

Next weekend I'll be trying out my new Fat B Nimble tires to see if that extra pound of weight loss and 1/2 inch narrower tire takes this bike to the next level.















Go Sturgis Bullet! 


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Fleas said:


> The circled piece is threaded. The larger diameter section is thinner, with an o-ring around the perimeter, but it is one piece with the part that looks like a spacer. It threads onto the hollow axle. The thru-axle goes through that. Inside is a replaceable cartridge bearing. You can see that if the hub body somehow grabs it, it will loosen.
> View attachment 988820
> 
> 
> -F


That's interesting; I haven't seen threaded end caps like that on thru-axle hubs. Regardless, there are a couple of things you can do.

First, clean the area between the bearings and the end caps, and apply grease to the O-ring and the area it contacts (I prefer synthetic, silicone-based grease like "Superlube" for this application). That will lubricate the O-ring, reducing the likelihood of any binding.

Second, clean the threads on both parts, then apply a small amount of Loctite #222 to the threads. That should prevent things from loosening on their own, but they can be easily disassembled for maintenance.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Bnystrom said:


> That's interesting; I haven't seen threaded end caps like that on thru-axle hubs. Regardless, there are a couple of things you can do.
> 
> First, clean the area between the bearings and the end caps, and apply grease to the O-ring and the area it contacts (I prefer synthetic, silicone-based grease like "Superlube" for this application). That will lubricate the O-ring, reducing the likelihood of any binding.
> 
> Second, clean the threads on both parts, then apply a small amount of Loctite #222 to the threads. That should prevent things from loosening on their own, but they can be easily disassembled for maintenance.


Thanks for the tips.

I thought all the BikesDirect fatbikes with 190 thru-axle rears used the same Novatech hub. Maybe not?

-F


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Fleas said:


> Thanks for the tips.
> 
> I thought all the BikesDirect fatbikes with 190 thru-axle rears used the same Novatech hub. Maybe not?
> 
> -F


I couldn't say, as I didn't get my wheels from BD. Now that I think about it, I've never looked at the end caps on my _rear_ wheel, just the front. Maybe they _are _threaded; I'll check them when I have a chance

UPDATE:
I checked my rear hub (it looks like a Chosen) and the right side end cap _is_ threaded, in order to hold the freehub in place, and and has flats for a 17mm cone wrench. The left side end cap is a slip fit, but the axle ends has a cross slot that you can slip the edge of a cone wrench into, in order to tighten the end cap.

Look at yours closely to see if there are similar accommodations for tightening the end cap(s).


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

MaximumX said:


> Mmmmm.... Bacon...
> 
> Well here is its good side. The whole thing's starting look more like a bike now!
> 
> View attachment 988975


Super sweet looking rig!! Love the colors. When you get it out on the dirt, let us know how you like the fork.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

OnThaCouch said:


> Super sweet looking rig!! Love the colors. When you get it out on the dirt, let us know how you like the fork.


I'm quite happy with mine. Other than the rather Mickey Mouse thru-axle setup that seems to be common to all Chinese carbon fat bike forks, everything about it works great. The Rockshox system is much better, but I just can't get past the weight of the Bluto.

The only issue I'm still working on is finding the ideal air pressure that will minimize self-steer without making the ride too harsh with the rigid fork. With Snowshoe 4.7s (4.25" actual width) and my combined bike, body and gear weight of ~210 pounds, it takes 8 psi minimum to keep the self-steer in check and I suspect that 8.5 - 9 psi will probably be a better compromise. I'll be playing with it more soon.

UPDATE:
I just did a ride at 9/11 PSI front/rear. The self steer is minimal on the road and almost non-existent on the trail. However, the ride is noticeably harsher in front. I definitely need more weight on the front wheel, both to improve traction and soften the ride. I pushed the saddle forward a bit and dropped the bars, to rotate my position forward and down somewhat and we'll see what happens.

I wonder if anyone is currently designing fat bike tires specifically to minimize self-steer. I'm thinking a squarer tread with intermediate and edge lugs that aren't in obvious lines might do the trick. Perhaps this is the time that bike tires need to switch from bias-ply casings to radial, like car tires did decades ago, but what do I know, I'm not a tire designer.


----------



## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> The NDS rear hub bearing retainer came loose again. Not sure why the thru-axle won't hold it together. Over-tightening the retainer causes drag on the hub. Not sure what's going on there. It has an o-ring seal on it, but I can't believe that hub rotation can exert enough torque on it to loosen it, unless the hub is really flexy.
> 
> -F


Further review after the last ride indicates that my NDS crank bearing has been contaminated. While the "seals" are pretty weak, I'm going to fess up and say that it's probably my own fault that I didn't pack the "seals" with grease to keep water-borne grit from getting in. Riding in the frozen conditions it was of no concern, but in my haste to ride I forgot to get back to it. :madman: My advice is to catch it early. It was literally overnight that the bearing nearly seized up. I'm good at reviving old, abused parts, though, so I got it smoothed out again. :thumbsup:







BTW - after this ride, I washed the bike - gently - and still poured out about a 1/4 cup of clean water from the NDS chainstay and bottom bracket. So the frame is not sealed very tight. I may have to address that with the clear silicone (which also addresses cable rub if applied neatly).



Bnystrom said:


> I couldn't say, as I didn't get my wheels from BD. Now that I think about it, I've never looked at the end caps on my _rear_ wheel, just the front. Maybe they _are _threaded; I'll check them when I have a chance
> 
> UPDATE:
> I checked my rear hub (it looks like a Chosen) and the right side end cap _is_ threaded, in order to hold the freehub in place, and and has flats for a 17mm cone wrench. The left side end cap is a slip fit, but the axle ends has a cross slot that you can slip the edge of a cone wrench into, in order to tighten the end cap.
> ...


No. Mine have 17mm wrench flats on both retainers. I can tighten them just fine, but there is no lock nut so the adjustment is maintained by the thru-axle compression (which is not ideal in my book). If I remove the NDS retainer, the whole axle and freehub come out the other side, easy peasy.

I'm still really liking the bike for its intended purpose. I will probably never put <4" tire on it.

-F


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Bnystrom said:


> ...I definitely need more weight on the front wheel, both to improve traction and soften the ride. I pushed the saddle forward a bit and dropped the bars, to rotate my position forward and down somewhat and we'll see what happens.
> 
> I wonder if anyone is currently designing fat bike tires specifically to minimize self-steer. I'm thinking a squarer tread with intermediate and edge lugs that aren't in obvious lines might do the trick. Perhaps this is the time that bike tires need to switch from bias-ply casings to radial, like car tires did decades ago, but what do I know, I'm not a tire designer.


I hear the Fat B Nimble and Husker Du are pretty neutral, as are several of the Surly tires.

But for front weighting, I actually went opposite what you did. I am set up in a more "heads up" position, even with the high front of the 120mm Bluto, but I like that the front tire is sorta just floating along until I lean on it. The fork still needs some token tuning, but it does OK. Front tire pressure (4" Snowshoe) is 9-1/2 to 10-1/2psi and I'm 185#. There may be a slightly shorter stem in my distant future, but I'm giving it a good try before I fiddle with it.

-F


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Fleas said:


> No. Mine have 17mm wrench flats on both retainers. I can tighten them just fine, but there is no lock nut so the adjustment is maintained by the thru-axle compression (which is not ideal in my book). If I remove the NDS retainer, the whole axle and freehub come out the other side, easy peasy.
> -F


In that case, cleaning the threads and applying Loctite is definitely the answer. As I mentioned, I'd probably use #222 (pink/purple), but #242 (blue) is more widely available under a variety of different brand names. It's somewhat stronger and as you've probably seen, many bike fasteners come with it already applied. I refer to it as "bike mechanic's Penicillin".


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Fleas said:


> I hear the Fat B Nimble and Husker Du are pretty neutral, as are several of the Surly tires.


I have the Chao Yang 4.9" tires (4.4" actual), which are the wider version of the FBNs. I only tried the front at "beach" pressure, 4-5 PSI, and there wasn't much difference in self-steer compared to the Snowshoes, but perhaps they're better at higher "trail" pressures.

My girlfriend has HuDus on her bike and complained about self-steer, but that was at 3-4 psi (she's tiny). Unfortunately, our wheels aren't compatible (hers are 135/170 Q/R), so I can't just switch the fronts and try it, so I don't know how it compares.



> But for front weighting, I actually went opposite what you did. I am set up in a more "heads up" position, even with the high front of the 120mm Bluto, but I like that the front tire is sorta just floating along until I lean on it. The fork still needs some token tuning, but it does OK. Front tire pressure (4" Snowshoe) is 9-1/2 to 10-1/2psi and I'm 185#. There may be a slightly shorter stem in my distant future, but I'm giving it a good try before I fiddle with it.
> -F


We're definitely headed in opposite directions. If anything, my next move is to a longer stem. I'm primarily interested in X/C riding and climbing performance is more important to me than downhill, since I don't ride anything that's seriously knarly.


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## Dave Hanna (May 20, 2015)

*21" to big?*

So I decided to per order the Night Train. But the 19" is not availed to pre order.
I am 6'1" with short legs 31" long arms and heavy at 320.
Not planing to do any jumps or anything. Just biking for fitness and fun. Will the 21" (XL) be too big? Or will the 17.5 be too small?


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

I've got the XL Sturgis Bullet and I'm 6'3". To me the bike is the perfect size while riding, but I have to admit, I'd love some extra clearance when it comes to stand over height. I literally only have 1/4" of stand over clearance when standing flat footed on flat ground (which you never find on the trail). 

I'd definitely say the XL is the wrong bike for your dimensions.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Dave Hanna said:


> So I decided to per order the Night Train. But the 19" is not availed to pre order.
> I am 6'1" with short legs 31" long arms and heavy at 320.
> Not planing to do any jumps or anything. Just biking for fitness and fun. Will the 21" (XL) be too big? Or will the 17.5 be too small?


I've got a 19" and it works fine for my 35" inseam. While you could certainly ride one, you may be better off with the 17.5. It would likely require a long stem, since you have a long torso, but that depends on your preferred riding position.


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

Bnystrom said:


> I've got a 19" and it works fine for my 35" inseam. While you could certainly ride one, you may be better off with the 17.5. It would likely require a long stem, since you have a long torso, but that depends on your preferred riding position.


Keep in mind you will almost certainly need a longer seatpost if you ride the 17.5. If you plan on riding in the snow, smaller is better. I dismounted a few times only to find my foot went down into the snow quite a bit. So, a smaller frame is better for snow riding.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

Dave Hanna said:


> So I decided to per order the Night Train. But the 19" is not availed to pre order.
> I am 6'1" with short legs 31" long arms and heavy at 320.
> Not planing to do any jumps or anything. Just biking for fitness and fun. Will the 21" (XL) be too big? Or will the 17.5 be too small?


Don't get a 17.5", I'm 5'11" and have a 17.5" and it is way too small for my liking, In fact, I'm selling it to get a larger size frame bike.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

hartzpad said:


> Don't get a 17.5", I'm 5'11" and have a 17.5" and it is way too small for my liking, In fact, I'm selling it to get a larger size frame bike.


Do you have any other bikes to compare?
I am 5'7" and got the small because the cockpit matched my existing hard tail. Fits great...
Edit: significant because my hard tail is a 17"


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## Dave Hanna (May 20, 2015)

Thanks guys. I'll go have a look at some similar bikes. Sounds like the 19" would be the right size. I've emailed BD to ask about sizing and why the hell o" is not an option... But I can probably guess.
Maybe I will have to go without the Bluto for a while.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Anyone hear anything about replacement hangers for those of us with the crappy ones?


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

FYI - We do have Sturgis Bullet with Bluto available for preorders in 19 inch right now.



Dave Hanna said:


> Thanks guys. I'll go have a look at some similar bikes. Sounds like the 19" would be the right size. I've emailed BD to ask about sizing and why the hell o" is not an option... But I can probably guess.
> Maybe I will have to go without the Bluto for a while.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

tfinator said:


> Anyone hear anything about replacement hangers for those of us with the crappy ones?


These should be shipping out any week now.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Allamuchy Joe said:


> Keep in mind you will almost certainly need a longer seatpost if you ride the 17.5.


If you do the math, that's not the case. I needed a 1" longer seatpost in my 19" frame. His inseam is 4" shorter than mine and the frame is only 1.5" smaller. Based on that, he should have 1.5" to spare.



> If you plan on riding in the snow, smaller is better. I dismounted a few times only to find my foot went down into the snow quite a bit. So, a smaller frame is better for snow riding.


True.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

PS - are you certain your inseam with shoes on is 31" ? I am 5'7" and mine is 31.5" Most riders around 6' have riding inseams of around 35 inches.

Please Ask a friend to help you measure. Using a hardcover book, spine up; end flat to a wall and pressed firmly up between your legs as if you are sitting on it. With riding shoes on, Stand with your back flat to the wall and your friend should measure from the book spine to the floor.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

hartzpad said:


> Don't get a 17.5", I'm 5'11" and have a 17.5" and it is way too small for my liking, In fact, I'm selling it to get a larger size frame bike.


Fine, but what's your inseam? Height doesn't mean much, as you can see in the case of the Dave and myself. I'm 1" shorter, but have a 4" longer inseam. Obviously, we have different frame size requirements. Ideally, he would be on a smaller frame with a longer top tube than I need.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

joebikesdirect said:


> With riding shoes on, stand with your back flat to the wall and your friend should measure from the book spine to the floor.


FWIW, inseam is traditionally measured _without_ shoes on. Shoes introduce another variable, depending on the thickness of the heel.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

joebikesdirect said:


> These should be shipping out any week now.


Cool. Thanks Joe!


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

FYI - Riding Inseam for bicycles should be Measured Always with your Riding shoes on.


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## Dave Hanna (May 20, 2015)

joebikesdirect said:


> FYI - We do have Sturgis Bullet with Bluto available for preorders in 19 inch right now.


Exactly what I was thinking. It looks like brakes and rear derailed are the main difference. 
And you get a sweet sparkly paint job!! 
I'll order tonight.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Dave Hanna said:


> Thanks guys. I'll go have a look at some similar bikes. Sounds like the 19" would be the right size. I've emailed BD to ask about sizing and why the hell o" is not an option... But I can probably guess.
> Maybe I will have to go without the Bluto for a while.


I tested a Felt Double Double for comparable sizing, but the Felt has a rigid fork so it still was a surprise on my limited stand over clearance on my Sturgis with Bluto. The Specialized Fatboy was also pretty similar comparison.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

joebikesdirect said:


> These should be shipping out any week now.


Been emailing Karla on an almost weekly basis on the gen 3 replacement hangers...its been a long wait. She got back to me on the 18th this week with this:

They finally showed up today and will begin shipping to customers tomorrow  
Thanks!
Karla
:rockon::drumroll::rant:


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Been emailing Karla on an almost weekly basis on the gen 3 replacement hangers...its been a long wait. She got back to me on the 18th this week with this:
> 
> They finally showed up today and will begin shipping to customers tomorrow
> Thanks!
> ...


nice info!


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Here are the 29+ Fat B Nimble tires on the Bikes Direct 29er wheelset. They are pretty light at 760gm and 740gm. They feel pretty thin too but I guess at that weight I shouldn't be surprised. They fit with plenty of room to spare. On initial inflation the absolute width measures out to between 2.5 and 2.6. We will see if that expands at all. I'll let you all know.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Been emailing Karla on an almost weekly basis on the gen 3 replacement hangers...its been a long wait. She got back to me on the 18th this week with this:
> 
> They finally showed up today and will begin shipping to customers tomorrow
> Thanks!
> ...


Excellent, then I can stop worrying. Thanks for posting!


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## Dave Hanna (May 20, 2015)

tfinator said:


> Excellent, then I can stop worrying. Thanks for posting!


Does anyone know if the hanger issue will be fixed on the next shipment of bikes?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Dave Hanna said:


> Does anyone know if the hanger issue will be fixed on the next shipment of bikes?


New bikes have been shipping with the better hanger, I believe. If you go back 3-4 months and read you'll see what people are getting on the second and third round shipments.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

tfinator said:


> New bikes have been shipping with the better hanger, I believe. If you go back 3-4 months and read you'll see what people are getting on the second and third round shipments.


3-4 months ago, they were *not* coming through with the new hanger. Mine has the version 1 hanger.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

My version 3 new derailleur hanger was delivered today in the mailbox. Things are going to start happening to me NOW!!!


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

ETChipotle said:


> My version 3 new derailleur hanger was delivered today in the mailbox. Things are going to start happening to me NOW!!!


Did you order that or did they just send it to you as a previous purchaser?


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Pretty cool of Bikes Direct. My Nighttrain was from the first batch. I'm impressed they remember me.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

beachbum1 said:


> Pretty cool of Bikes Direct. My Nighttrain was from the first batch. I'm impressed they remember me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome! Thanks for the info!


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Bnystrom said:


> 3-4 months ago, they were *not* coming through with the new hanger. Mine has the version 1 hanger.


Oh okay, I thought only the first shipment of bikes had hanger #1. 
There's a hanger #2 they put on others at some point and then I think these are hanger #3?

Regardless, anything ordered now will have a better hanger on it.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

beachbum1 said:


> Pretty cool of Bikes Direct. My Nighttrain was from the first batch. I'm impressed they remember me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mine was from one of the first batches as well. I purchased a couple of the 2nd gen. hangers as insurance after bending one and snapping another of the 1st gen. Hoping my spare is in the mail.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

beachbum1 said:


> Here are the 29+ Fat B Nimble tires on the Bikes Direct 29er wheelset. They are pretty light at 760gm and 740gm. They feel pretty thin too but I guess at that weight I shouldn't be surprised. They fit with plenty of room to spare. On initial inflation the absolute width measures out to between 2.5 and 2.6. We will see if that expands at all. I'll let you all know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that the WTB i25 TCS wheelset on the site? How are the 29+ tires doing on the narrower rim?


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Yes it is. On the road it's no problem. I haven't tried them out on the trail yet. It actually only inflates to 2.5 inches with tubes. I'm going to convert to tubeless and see if that gets em any bigger. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

beachbum1 said:


> Pretty cool of Bikes Direct. My Nighttrain was from the first batch. I'm impressed they remember me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Anybody else get just the note?

No hanger in my envelope. No holes in my envelope... just the note. :???:

-F


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

tfinator said:


> Oh okay, I thought only the first shipment of bikes had hanger #1.
> There's a hanger #2 they put on others at some point and then I think these are hanger #3?
> 
> Regardless, anything ordered now will have a better hanger on it.


I'm pretty sure that the v2 hanger never shipped on any bikes, but was available for purchase while they were waiting for the v3 hangers. As for whether bikes ordered now will come with the v3 hanger, it probably depends on whether they've been built or not. Lead times for production are typically months long and there may also be old stock to work through. I suggest clarifying this with BD before making any assumptions. One would hope that any bike ordered now would at least have a v3 hanger in the box if there isn't one on the bike.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

beachbum1 said:


> Yes it is. On the road it's no problem. I haven't tried them out on the trail yet. It actually only inflates to 2.5 inches with tubes. I'm going to convert to tubeless and see if that gets em any bigger.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. Been thinking about a 29+ wheelset for mine. Looking at 50mm or 65mm as I already have 80mm.

Anyone out there with experience with a narrower fat rim have pros/cons for either of the narrower sizes.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Update on Fat B Nimble 29+ tires. I converted them to tubeless without much difficulty with it losing just a few psi overnight. Width has increased to 2.6 inches. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

warning ... silly stupid question coming....

wouldn't a weighted measure of contact patch (tire to ground) be more accurate of a real world width than a measure from the top of the tire (unweighted)..? if the Fat B Nimbles or DW or what have you... 

I can understand the other measurement (unweighted) to insure fitting in a frame and possible mud clearance. 

again, simply a question.

by the way I have a set of knards on duallys for my Pug set up split tube...was down in Rothrock and Allegrippis for Dirt Rag's DirtFest... they did wonderful in rock and flow trails.

loving it.. have plans to get a set of duallys built up for the Sturg, leaning towards the Dirt Wizards.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

twright205 said:


> warning ... silly stupid question coming....
> 
> wouldn't a weighted measure of contact patch (tire to ground) be more accurate of a real world width than a measure from the top of the tire (unweighted)..? if the Fat B Nimbles or DW or what have you...
> 
> ...


What you are proposing would require some standards of tire pressure and weight bearing on the wheel; prob'ly rim width as well. While it would be useful to know how much tire contacts the ground at what pressure, I think the old fashioned way is easier.

I am having trouble with anyone who says they ride fat tires on dirt at less than 10psi. While I'm not a lightweight at 185#, I'm not that heavy, but <10psi renders my tires too mushy for hardpack.

-F


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Fleas said:


> What you are proposing would require some standards of tire pressure and weight bearing on the wheel; prob'ly rim width as well. While it would be useful to know how much tire contacts the ground at what pressure, I think the old fashioned way is easier.
> 
> I am having trouble with anyone who says they ride fat tires on dirt at less than 10psi. While I'm not a lightweight at 185#, I'm not that heavy, but <10psi renders my tires too mushy for hardpack.
> 
> -F


And depending on the loading/durability variables, the tires can break down on the tangential threading across the carcass.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Fleas said:


> No hanger in my envelope. No holes in my envelope... just the note. :???:
> 
> -F


Please message me with your name and address, we'll take care of you


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

joebikesdirect said:


> Please message me with your name and address, we'll take care of you


No worries. Karla's on the job! :thumbsup:

-F


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

*Panaracer Fat B Nimbles 4"*

I swapped out my snowshoes for a set of Panaracers Fat B Nimbles 4" tires. These tires dropped me another pound. I set them up split tube like my snowshoes. These tires are a great summer tire. I took them out on my favorite singletrack - lots of rocks and hardpack plus a lot of sand and wet spots due to all our recent rain. The tires handled it all really well. And that lighter weight and 1/2 inch narrower size really took my Sturgis to the next level. Had a blast!!!














Another note, these tires worked surprisingly well on the pavement. I actually enjoyed a 17 mile road ride with them. That would never happen with the snowshoes no matter the air pressure.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Plus it gave me the chance to swap out my black rim strip for the red strip.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

*Weights?*

I know I saw it somewhere, but can't find it now (this forums gotten pretty huge)... Anyone know the original weights of the stock seat post and handle bar? I'm trying to see what kind of weight loss to $$ factor I can do. Not sure I want to risk the China Carbon stuff, but good aluminum options could drop some more weight.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

You'd only need to look at the November 12 through December 15th posts, I'm guessing, because that's when people started taking delivery of the first batch of Sturgis/Night Train and weighing things.

I had some things I've been avoiding spending the time to re-read the post about.

I was quite close in my silly w/a guess above. page 28
Here's a summary what people posted:

393g stock Sturgis bar
767g stock seatpost and seat
Seat is 386 and post is 376 (that's 762g)


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

I'm considering a gear change. I'm thinking 26/38 would be better for staying in one front ring more of the time, but still have a nice wide overall range. Especially if I reserve the right to add 42 in back. Lots of times I like to pedal at a slower pace, so I like the tall gears. I figure I'll put a need a new chain if I get a 38T, and so I'll just move my original chain to a bike for my 6 year old.


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

Got some Knard 4.8's for my Sturgis.
They were a pain to get installed - I had a hard time getting the bead to seat evenly all the way around. They certainly are bigger than the Snowshoes!


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Those are huge!!!


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

Dolbydarma said:


> Those are huge!!!


To be fair, they are overinflated in the photos - around 20psi, since I was having trouble getting them seated properly.


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## Paulg (Dec 5, 2004)

*29er Wheelset for NTB*

Hi,

I recently purchased and installed the 29er wheelset on my NTB also. The spacers needed to make the rear wheel fit do concern me a bit. I found I had to install them and the wheel with the bike upside down, and use some temporaray pieces of tape to keep the spacers from falling out. My concern is if the wheel had a flat on the trails, the spacers could easily fall out and get lost during a tube change. Just curious what others have on this for thoughts/ideas to deal with this. At least with the front hub spacers, the hub can "hold" the spacers. Maybe tubeless is the way go?

Otherwise the bike looks and rides just fine with the 29er wheels!

Thanks



mtb_fun said:


> I did. The rear hub is 190mm so BD includes two small pieces of anodized aluminum that are machined to fit the slots in the rear dropouts so the hub fits. I did not find these parts right away so I thought the rear wheel would not fit. Then someone on here posted about the small parts.
> 
> Anyway, I do really like the bike with this wheelset. I say go for it.


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## Paulg (Dec 5, 2004)

I recently purchased and installed the 29er wheelset on my NTB also. The spacers needed to make the rear wheel fit do concern me a bit. I found I had to install them and the wheel with the bike upside down, and use some temporaray pieces of tape to keep the spacers from falling out. My concern is if the wheel had a flat on the trails, the spacers could easily fall out and get lost during a tube change. Just curious what others have on this for thoughts/ideas to deal with this. At least with the front hub spacers, the hub can "hold" the spacers. Maybe tubeless is the way go? 

Otherwise the bike looks and rides just fine with the 29er wheels!

Thanks


----------



## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I have the 29er wheelset and set them up tubeless with Fat b Nimbles and they seem to hold air just fine. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlewis114 (Jun 1, 2015)

*NT Bullet hairline?*









I purchased a NT bullet and it came today from bike island. Got $249 off for a large dent on downtube. Emailed back and forth and was told dent was size of a quarter, was not structural though would not be warranteed, but could also send back with restocking fee if I decided it was not what they thought. I said let's do it. Received it today and I think it is more than a dent (LBS agreed) and would consider structural? Looks like a hairline. Bike Island said they would take back no problem. I do not place any blame on them at all. Just want a very nice bike to ride... Thoughts?


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

I put a dab of silicone vacuum grease on each spacer which holds them in place. When I set it up fat again I will just wipe the grease off.

This silicone grease is what I use to hold o-rings, gaskets, etc. in place during assembly. It works great.



Paulg said:


> Hi,
> 
> I recently purchased and installed the 29er wheelset on my NTB also. The spacers needed to make the rear wheel fit do concern me a bit. I found I had to install them and the wheel with the bike upside down, and use some temporaray pieces of tape to keep the spacers from falling out. My concern is if the wheel had a flat on the trails, the spacers could easily fall out and get lost during a tube change. Just curious what others have on this for thoughts/ideas to deal with this. At least with the front hub spacers, the hub can "hold" the spacers. Maybe tubeless is the way go?
> 
> ...


----------



## Paulg (Dec 5, 2004)

Hey thank you for that suggestion! I was looking into contact type adhesive materials but the grease seems more practical



mtb_fun said:


> I put a dab of silicone vacuum grease on each spacer which holds them in place. When I set it up fat again I will just wipe the grease off.
> 
> This silicone grease is what I use to hold o-rings, gaskets, etc. in place during assembly. It works great.


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

mlewis114 said:


> Received it today and I think it is more than a dent (LBS agreed) and would consider structural? Looks like a hairline. Bike Island said they would take back no problem. I do not place any blame on them at all. Just want a very nice bike to ride... Thoughts?


From the angle of that shot it only looks like a dent and associated paint deformation to me. Can't see any detail in the shadow area.

How friendly are you with the LBS?


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

joebikesdirect said:


> Please message me with your name and address, we'll take care of you


I'm thoroughly impressed by this guys. I just posted on Facebook, because I was worried about my hangar snapping someday and received my new one in the mail already. I'm also from the first batch of Night Train Bullet buyers.

But for all the new shipments... please tape up the envelope or something. It was hanging wide open and I think I'm lucky there was actually anything in it. Maybe the adhesive isn't holding up during the trip.


----------



## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

beachbum1 said:


> Pretty cool of Bikes Direct. My Nighttrain was from the first batch. I'm impressed they remember me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Fleas said:


> Anybody else get just the note?
> 
> No hanger in my envelope. No holes in my envelope... just the note. :???:
> 
> -F


I can't make this stuff up. Received a second envelope today. It did have a hanger in it. Not sure what bike it goes to...








If my co-workers had a drawer full of random derailleur hangers I would immediately accuse them of messing with me, but they don't. :???:
This is turning out to be one expensive derailleur hanger.
And NO, I am not collecting derailleur hangers and pretending that I didn't get them. :nono:
Thankfully I haven't yet needed the replacement. 

-F


----------



## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

mlewis114 said:


> View attachment 992822
> 
> 
> I purchased a NT bullet and it came today from bike island. Got $249 off for a large dent on downtube. Emailed back and forth and was told dent was size of a quarter, was not structural though would not be warranteed, but could also send back with restocking fee if I decided it was not what they thought. I said let's do it. Received it today and I think it is more than a dent (LBS agreed) and would consider structural? Looks like a hairline. Bike Island said they would take back no problem. I do not place any blame on them at all. Just want a very nice bike to ride... Thoughts?


I think my old bike had a bigger dent than that in the downtube, and it was steel. I would flake the disturbed paint off of it, inspect it under a good light, then put a sticker over it and go ride.

-F


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Fleas said:


> I think my old bike had a bigger dent than that in the downtube, and it was steel. I would flake the disturbed paint off of it, inspect it under a good light, then put a sticker over it and go ride.
> 
> -F


I agree (even though steel is probably more tolerant to this kind of stuff than an aluminum frame). Flake the paint off and then sticker it. Looks like a really minor dent to me, though.

For $250 off, I would honestly ride it and replace the frame with an upgrade if it ever fails. This is the underside of the downtube, which is in tension, so I can't imagine a scary catastrophic failure from something so small. Just my personal opinion of the risk/reward here.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

AndrewZorn said:


> I agree (even though steel is probably more tolerant to this kind of stuff than an aluminum frame). Flake the paint off and then sticker it. Looks like a really minor dent to me, though.
> 
> For $250 off, I would honestly ride it and replace the frame with an upgrade if it ever fails. This is the underside of the downtube, which is in tension, so I can't imagine a scary catastrophic failure from something so small. Just my personal opinion of the risk/reward here.


All the frame tests I've seen have had the bottom tube in compression.
Maybe landing a big jump in the flat is a tension situation, but then we all know the fork is going to fail first, or maybe head tube.
Meanwhile running into a solid object or a tall rock will cause compression, which is how I've seen the tests done.
Regardless, it looks small and depending on your intended use and weight I would think it's fine.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

When I ordered the version 2 derailleur hanger, soon after it came available, I had not yet bent my original, but ordering it jinxed me and that weekend everybody was wiping out and I ended up bending my stock v1 hanger. I had two empty envelopes just like the priority mail ones shown in pictures above, where the hanger had poked a hole in the envelope and escaped. Third time was a charm. So I thought it was interesting that this time they sent the v3 hanger in a densely padded envelope that was not going to have that same problem. I thought they had entirely switched to this, but perhaps they just sent that dense padded style envelope to problem people like me. So now I chuckle at these mailing problems. wasn't so funny back then.


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## mlewis114 (Jun 1, 2015)

AndrewZorn said:


> I agree (even though steel is probably more tolerant to this kind of stuff than an aluminum frame). Flake the paint off and then sticker it. Looks like a really minor dent to me, though.
> 
> For $250 off, I would honestly ride it and replace the frame with an upgrade if it ever fails. This is the underside of the downtube, which is in tension, so I can't imagine a scary catastrophic failure from something so small. Just my personal opinion of the risk/reward here.


I went ahead and flaked a bit off and used a small pick to poke around. Think I was just feeling the paint that had stayed adhered thinking it was a hairline. This is only one side of the "dent", so it is bigger than what the picture shows.

Appreciate the advice everyone. Going to just ride it and watch for any issues. Any issues I will buy go the new frame.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

*Sqeaking Bullet -*

Sqeaking, not creaking sound coming from somewhere...driving me nuts. Happens in our out of the saddle, hands on or off the bars, when pedaling under load or just spinning slow, intermittent. All bearings running smooth (shocking - keep waiting for something to implode, but all's well) Sounds like rubber on metal. Do the O-rings in the front hub Bluto adapters squeak sometimes? I've gone over the bike front to back, top to bottom, no idea. It's not pedals either, I learned that lesson one time when I replaced all the bearings and bushings on a full suspension rig, replaced bottom bracket, and re-pressed headset to find a creak, turned out to be a loose pedal. Whatever this is, it's driving me bat-$hit crazy.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Sounds on bikes can be hard to diagnose. Put the bike in a stand or upside down and turn the cranks. What sounds does it make? Start isolating moving parts. Check everything is properly tightened and adjusted. Crank bolts, chainring bolts.

Generally, if a sound occurs every 4 pedal strokes, its is in the chain or related to the chain/gear system. If a sound occurs every pedal stroke. It is frame, BB or pedal related. Just be patient and isolate. Once, a customer had a squeak that could not be tracked down, finally they put some light grease in the stem spacers and it went away.

Personally, I once had a ticking noise I could not track down. Turned out it was my jersey zipper pull...LOL


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## OddTrickStar (Aug 22, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> Sqeaking, not creaking sound coming from somewhere...driving me nuts. Happens in our out of the saddle, hands on or off the bars, when pedaling under load or just spinning slow, intermittent. All bearings running smooth (shocking - keep waiting for something to implode, but all's well) Sounds like rubber on metal. Do the O-rings in the front hub Bluto adapters squeak sometimes? I've gone over the bike front to back, top to bottom, no idea. It's not pedals either, I learned that lesson one time when I replaced all the bearings and bushings on a full suspension rig, replaced bottom bracket, and re-pressed headset to find a creak, turned out to be a loose pedal. Whatever this is, it's driving me bat-$hit crazy.


Seatpost, bottom bracket threads, spokes, crank arm spindle connection, fork joints, brake rub, derailleur pulleys etc. Grease and inspect until you find it. Often, it may turn out to be something that you eliminated already.


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

joebikesdirect said:


> Personally, I once had a ticking noise I could not track down. Turned out it was my jersey zipper pull...LOL


Ha! Almost as bad as when I spent a week trying to find the ticking in my drivetrain that turned out to be a shoelace end hitting the crankarm!


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I had a nasty squeak, turned out it was the tires squeaking in the rims


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

WhiskeyJr said:


> I had a nasty squeak, turned out it was the tires squeaking in the rims
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We're you running split tube? I've got a feeling it is coming from the tires. As I posted before, I've pretty much done a complete overhaul on this, including Bluto overhaul, and new split tubes and sealant. The only thing I haven't done is pull the headseat cups, but I'm not chasing a creak. Mechanically, everything is sound. It could be the new split tube/ rim strip setup.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> We're you running split tube? I've got a feeling it is coming from the tires. As I posted before, I've pretty much done a complete overhaul on this, including Bluto overhaul, and new split tubes and sealant. The only thing I haven't done is pull the headseat cups, but I'm not chasing a creak. Mechanically, everything is sound. It could be the new split tube/ rim strip setup.


I do not run split tube. I had an annoying squeak for the first four miles of my ride. I was trying to isolate in any and every way possible. At the fourth mile, I hit a wide, shallow creek crossing. Just as soon as the tires get wet, the bike goes silent.

See if you have some slight movement between the tire and rim like me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

watermonkey said:


> Sqeaking, not creaking sound coming from somewhere...driving me nuts. Happens in our out of the saddle, hands on or off the bars, when pedaling under load or just spinning slow, intermittent. All bearings running smooth (shocking - keep waiting for something to implode, but all's well) Sounds like rubber on metal. Do the O-rings in the front hub Bluto adapters squeak sometimes? I've gone over the bike front to back, top to bottom, no idea. It's not pedals either, I learned that lesson one time when I replaced all the bearings and bushings on a full suspension rig, replaced bottom bracket, and re-pressed headset to find a creak, turned out to be a loose pedal. Whatever this is, it's driving me bat-$hit crazy.


Not bars or stem.
Not saddle or post.
Thru-axle properly tight?
Once, and only once I found a cable end was squeaking in the cable stop. ?

-F


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Hey, 3rd time's the charm. Now I'm ready for anything!








Thanks BD!

-F


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

Fleas said:


> Hey, 3rd time's the charm. Now I'm ready for anything!/QUOTE]
> 
> I still haven't received my first one yet :madmax:


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Fleas said:


> Hey, 3rd time's the charm. Now I'm ready for anything!
> View attachment 994748
> 
> 
> ...


I haven't received anything yet, not even a wrong hanger or an envelope with a hole in it. At least that way I'd know they were trying. I thought they were sending these out to EVERY sturgis/bullet owner. Do you have to ask?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

You don't have to ask. I got mine a week ago


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## Dave Hanna (May 20, 2015)

*Sturgis ready to ship email*

I got my ready to ship email!! :thumbsup:

The only issue is I am going on a week vacation on Friday :madman:
Lucky i had it sent to work.


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

I called the other to day to check what address they were sending mine to, because it hadn't arrived... they hadn't sent anything. I was asked when I received my frame and which hanger it came and was told it would ship out that day.

It might not be a bad idea to call...


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

4 month update on my Sturgis Bullet. Aside from the derailleur hanger issue on these and fairly poor paint job, this thing is holding up well. I'm a clyde, and ride hard. Changes I've made from stock: ghetto split tube and home brew, dropper post and salsa fliplock, aftermarket bars, different saddle. I had put older xt brakes on for a while, but switched back to the Draco's. This is really my only complaint - buying new XT brakes and icetech rotors. In the process of chasing down a squeak, I pulled this thing apart and rebuilt. The only thing I didn't do is pull the headset cups, or any hub or freehub bearings, as these are all still in very good shape. For context, I have a Lurch too, and the rear hub has not fared as well, but I think that is down to 2 things - QR setup allowing flex, and was originally spec'd with aluminum freehub body. Aside from the rotor side end cap on the rear hub loosening up twice, everything on the rear hub is going strong - bearings (3 in the hub shell vs 2 on first gen D202-sb's?) still perfectly smooth, and the freehub pawls look new, as does the ratchet ring. Freehub bearings still smooth too. I pulled the bottom bracket, those bearings we still rolling smooth, and there was not a drop of water in the bottom bracket - and I'm not anal about keeping this thing out of water. This bike is a riot. Totally solid, albeit heavyish build. Even the X5 shifters have been great. If you haven't gotten around to slick honeying your Bluto, I highly recommend it. I did run Bud/Lou this spring as the snow started getting slick, but was very happy to get back to the snowshoes for rock and desert riding. It's still a blast in the snow, but the rigid Lurch has a much more friendly snow geometry. I think a Bud/Bud setup next winter will be the ticket to mitigate for the Sturgis's longer wheelbase snow performance. Anyway, I love this thing. It's all I ride, the wife has the Lurch and my 7 year old is cranking around on a Borix X-7.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

what does slick honeying a bluto mean?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

ETChipotle said:


> what does slick honeying a bluto mean?


The stock grease on the Bluto is this crazy sticky red crap that adds stiction and can lead to air migrating from +air chamber to -air chamber. Replacing this grease with Slick Honey grease greatly increases the plushness of the fork and small bump compliance. See the Bluto tuning thread http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/bluto-tuning-thread-921527.html ,for details. That, and air tokens (also in the thread) make a difference.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Fleas said:


> Not bars or stem.
> Not saddle or post.
> Thru-axle properly tight?
> Once, and only once I found a cable end was squeaking in the cable stop. ?
> ...


A common source for squeaks is quick-release skewers, with the noise coming from the cam in the head. The type of thru-axles that BD uses on non-Bluto bikes could be prone to this, too.


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

I had a bad squeak and after some head scratching, turned out I just needed grease on my thru-axle! So simple!
I thought it was going to be so much more extensive like a bottom bracket or chain ring.


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## Brett Williams (May 23, 2013)

I got to about 200 miles on my new Sturgis and had my first let down. Went out for a morning ride today and noticed a loud squeak once in a while when peddling. Found the cranks stiff to spin. No time yet to take the bottom bracket apart yet but wondering what others are doing to prevent this from happening.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Brett Williams said:


> I got to about 200 miles on my new Sturgis and had my first let down. Went out for a morning ride today and noticed a loud squeak once in a while when peddling. Found the cranks stiff to spin. No time yet to take the bottom bracket apart yet but wondering what others are doing to prevent this from happening.





Fleas said:


> Further review after the last ride indicates that my NDS crank bearing has been contaminated. While the "seals" are pretty weak, I'm going to fess up and say that it's probably my own fault that I didn't pack the "seals" with grease to keep water-borne grit from getting in. Riding in the frozen conditions it was of no concern, but in my haste to ride I forgot to get back to it. :madman: My advice is to catch it early. It was literally overnight that the bearing nearly seized up. I'm good at reviving old, abused parts, though, so I got it smoothed out again. :thumbsup:
> View attachment 989464
> 
> BTW - after this ride, I washed the bike - gently - and still poured out about a 1/4 cup of clean water from the NDS chainstay and bottom bracket. So the frame is not sealed very tight. I may have to address that with the clear silicone (which also addresses cable rub if applied neatly).
> ...


See above public service announcement. 

-F


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## mlewis114 (Jun 1, 2015)

What chainstay protectors are folks using on the Night Train Bullet?


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Ok... We converted yet another co worker to fat. Now, we're up to four. 
He bought a Night Train in black. It showed up today. My son's baseball game got rained out, so I went to his house and assembled the bike. 
I can say that the bike is pretty damn awesome for the money. The box was a little beat from the trip. The fork was poking out, but the paint is flawless. Only casualty is a scratch on the front rim. Black sharpie took care of that. 
Bike has X9 derailleurs, X7 shifters and Guide brakes. The Crankset is slightly cheesy and we'll see how the Novatec hubs hold up. 
I disassembled everything and greased everything. We also swapped the factory seatpost collar for a Salsa Liplock. We installed Fyxation nylon flat pedals. 
All that's left to do is convert the tires to split tubeless. Neither of us had any Stan's handy so that'll be a project for next weekend. 
Bike is NICE. The other three of us have 9zero7's that we custom built. They cost way more and are a few pounds lighter but I would have no problem recommending the Night Train to someone who doesn't want to lay out two grand for a bike. 
He got the Large. I have a feeling we'll end up swapping out the 100mm stem for an 80.
I wish they'd sell the framset by itself so I could do beach builds.


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## MIKE157 (Nov 30, 2008)

^They do ! Frame with Bluto $699 ^


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

MIKE157 said:


> ^They do ! Frame with Bluto $699 ^


Seriously? Cool. Thanks.

Edit... I just found it. Reason I didn't know was I never scrolled to the bottom of the page. Once I saw those beach cruisers, I went back up. 
Thanks for the tip.


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## Paulg (Dec 5, 2004)

I applied the silicone vaccuum grease to these rear drop out spacers and that was helpful. Do you also use it on the front hub spacers? I am using a long lag bolt with washers and wing nut to hold the spacers in place (almost like a "mock" skewer) if I need to remove the wheel for any reason. BD was also good about sending me some spare front hub spacers.



mtb_fun said:


> I put a dab of silicone vacuum grease on each spacer which holds them in place. When I set it up fat again I will just wipe the grease off.
> 
> This silicone grease is what I use to hold o-rings, gaskets, etc. in place during assembly. It works great.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

Paulg, I cleaned the inside of the spacers and the outside of the hub where the spacers slide offer with isopropyl alcohol. I then applied a little blue locktite. Once the lock tie sets up it will hold the spacers on. They can still be removed with some pressure.



Paulg said:


> I applied the silicone vaccuum grease to these rear drop out spacers and that was helpful. Do you also use it on the front hub spacers? I am using a long lag bolt with washers and wing nut to hold the spacers in place (almost like a "mock" skewer) if I need to remove the wheel for any reason. BD was also good about sending me some spare front hub spacers.


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

mlewis114 said:


> What chainstay protectors are folks using on the Night Train Bullet?


3M Scotch #2228 Rubber Mastic Electrical Tape
About $9/roll at Home Depot


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Anyone strip the crank bolt while trying to tighten or loosen the bolt? It looks like it is happening to me and I am unable to loosen the crank bolt. Any ideas on how to remove if the inside of the crank bolt is stripped? Also, where would I be able to purchase a replacement if I am able to get it off? I think the FSA crank bolts look similar but they come in a few different sizes (i.e. M15, M18, etc.).


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Take the bolt to the hardware store, I bet you can find the size. They'll have a thread gauge of some kind


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

tfinator said:


> Take the bolt to the hardware store, I bet you can find the size. They'll have a thread gauge of some kind


Unfortunately, I cannot get it out. Also, its the large bolt that screws into the crank spindle. I highly doubt the hardware store has those size or even a gauge that can determine such wide sizes. Here is an example of the type of bolt I am referring to (the cap bolt in red):


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

You have to loosen the two bolts on the crank arm. It'll come right out then.


----------



## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Negotiator50 said:


> Unfortunately, I cannot get it out. Also, its the large bolt that screws into the crank spindle. I highly doubt the hardware store has those size or even a gauge that can determine such wide sizes. Here is an example of the type of bolt I am referring to (the cap bolt in red):





NYrr496 said:


> You have to loosen the two bolts on the crank arm. It'll come right out then.


Isn't that just the bearing pre-load bolt? It should not be very tight - sorta like your top cap on your threadless headset.
And on mine, the cap (bolt) comes out even when the 2 pinch bolts in the crank arm are tight.

-F


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Fleas said:


> Isn't that just the bearing pre-load bolt? It should not be very tight - sorta like your top cap on your threadless headset.
> And on mine, the cap (bolt) comes out even when the 2 pinch bolts in the crank arm are tight.
> 
> -F


It is. I was able to get it out by loosening the crank arm bolts. I would still like to purchase a replacement so looking to find one now.


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## Bulldog Skates (Jun 17, 2015)

hey guys, my NTS will be here tomorrow, i got a 15 inch in red. it is supposed to have the new hanger but can someone tell me how to validate this? thanks


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

2nd gen was black
3rd gen is silver


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Bulldog Skates said:


> hey guys, my NTS will be here tomorrow, i got a 15 inch in red. it is supposed to have the new hanger but can someone tell me how to validate this? thanks





beachbum1 said:


> Pretty cool of Bikes Direct. My Nighttrain was from the first batch. I'm impressed they remember me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Back a few pages...

-F


----------



## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

I just got a new Carbon Fat Bike and I've been trying to sell my Sturgis and no one is buying Fat Bikes here in Utah. I guess it's the wrong time of year to sell a fat bike.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

hartzpad said:


> I just got a new Carbon Fat Bike and I've been trying to sell my Sturgis with a carbon fork for the last month, no one is buying Fat Bikes here in Utah. A great deal for $900. I guess it's the wrong time of year.
> 
> View attachment 996778


You should look up 'paid spam' on the site.
Technically I think you need to pay for ads... I think.


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## Bulldog Skates (Jun 17, 2015)

hey guys, did anyone have issues with UPS and the package weight? i am being told mine is being held for a "weight exception" and based on that category i'm not able to get anymore information. just curious.
thanks


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

No issues with my 17.5" SB.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Two of my friends bought them in the last month. No problems.


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## Bulldog Skates (Jun 17, 2015)

it showed up about 30 minutes after i posted my q. i'm happy, from what i can tell this is thing is going to work well for me.


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## Dave Hanna (May 20, 2015)

So I got my Sturgis together today. Awesome looking bike. I've only done a quick 5 mile ride and apart from the brakes not being as good as I would have thought, it's a sweet ride. I read somewhere that disks take some time to bed in? It could also me thouse big fat tires and my big fat body. There also was a random click while pedaling. I'll have to hunt that down.


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## Dave Hanna (May 20, 2015)

Dave Hanna said:


> So I got my Sturgis together today. Awesome looking bike. I've only done a quick 5 mile ride and apart from the brakes not being as good as I would have thought, it's a sweet ride. I read somewhere that disks take some time to bed in? It could also me thouse big fat tires and my big fat body. There also was a random click while pedaling. I'll have to hunt that down.


What a fun bike! 
its still got a click, and also a random metal on metal sound like the disk is rubbing on something (not the brake pad). Maybe a trip to the LBS is in order.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Cool! For click, check dumb stuff like the rear derailleur and front derailleur cables. Sometimes the extend into your pedal path.
My brakes also rubbed. Apart from cleaning the chain etc, sometimes I'm irresponsible with my maintenance. As such, I decided to ignore the brakes and let them work in. 200 miles later they're A-OK. So, if they aren't awful, then you could just wait on it a bit!


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

If you're a big guy, swap the front rotor for a 203mm. You'll need to swap the spacer also. 
Sand the rotors with 220 grit sandpaper and then wipe them with nail polish remover or laquer thinner. Then, remove the pads and LIGHTLY scuff them against a sheet of 220 flat on a table. 
The brakes will bed in quickly and perfectly.


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## iCollector (Nov 14, 2012)

Dave Hanna said:


> What a fun bike!
> its still got a click, and also a random metal on metal sound like the disk is rubbing on something (not the brake pad). Maybe a trip to the LBS is in order.


Holy crap - that looks like mine - same mudflaps - but now I see you have the one with the suspension fork! LOL - as if we all don't have one that looks like this!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

NYrr496 said:


> If you're a big guy, swap the front rotor for a 203mm. You'll need to swap the spacer also.
> Sand the rotors with 220 grit sandpaper and then wipe them with nail polish remover or laquer thinner. Then, remove the pads and LIGHTLY scuff them against a sheet of 220 flat on a table.
> The brakes will bed in quickly and perfectly.


...or you can just ride it through some dirt and water and let that bed your brakes in. 

Really, my brakes are working so well right now. They improved quite a bit when they got dirty. Starting in the snow made dirt hard to come by, but the first time I got into some mud, water, and dirt, the brakes came alive.

btw - I still get a random "click", maybe from the rear hub once in awhile when I start out. It's not loud, but I can feel and hear it.

Also, the Snowshoe tires in the mud are starting to feel good as I am learning how they are supposed to feel. I am getting quite a bit of confidence to lean them up on edge and let them carve. They slide a little, but very predictably. So far they are turning out to be pretty good all-around snow/mud/hardpack tires. Need to find some sand. Adjusting pressure for the conditions helps them behave properly. The mushy-er the conditions, the mushy-er the tire. Highest pressure I run is 10.5psi (I'm 185#).

-F


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

NYrr496 said:


> If you're a big guy, swap the front rotor for a 203mm. You'll need to swap the spacer also.


Exactly which spacer is needed? Do you have a part number you could post here?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dave Hanna (May 20, 2015)

NYrr496 said:


> If you're a big guy, swap the front rotor for a 203mm. You'll need to swap the spacer also.
> .


can you fit a 203mm rear rotor? that would do some sweet skids!

I found the 203mm front and adaptor on amazon/ebay


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Dolbydarma said:


> 2nd gen was black
> 3rd gen is silver


Hi - to this is not an accurate way to tell. We have made the Current Gen hangers in both colors. Previous Gen hangers are no longer made  All Sturgis/Nighttrain hangers are now current Generation. Hanger #28
Derailleur Hangers for Bicycles, Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, Hybrid, Comfort and More Save Up to 60% Off New Bikes


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Exactly which spacer is needed? Do you have a part number you could post here?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If it's post mount, it's this...
New 2015 Shimano SM MA F203P P Front Adapter 203mm Post Mount Disc Brake | eBay

And if it's ISO...
Shimano R203 P s Disc Brake Adapter 74mm Caliper to 51mm Fork SM MA R203 P S | eBay


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

NYrr496 said:


> If it's post mount, it's this...
> New 2015 Shimano SM MA F203P P Front Adapter 203mm Post Mount Disc Brake | eBay
> 
> And if it's ISO...
> Shimano R203 P s Disc Brake Adapter 74mm Caliper to 51mm Fork SM MA R203 P S | eBay


Were NTB's built with both styles?

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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Were NTB's built with both styles?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have no clue. I just don't know what the bike came with, so I posted both.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

NYrr496 said:


> I have no clue. I just don't know what the bike came with, so I posted both.


I thought you must have been speaking from personal experience.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

iCollector said:


> View attachment 997365
> 
> 
> Holy crap - that looks like mine - same mudflaps - but now I see you have the one with the suspension fork! LOL - as if we all don't have one that looks like this!


What brand is that down tube mud guard. My gravel bike has one just like it that came with the bike and I love it.


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## Dave Hanna (May 20, 2015)

Daves Mud Shovel from Portland Design Works.


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## Dave Hanna (May 20, 2015)

So I have tighten the rear end as much as possible. But still when I pedal the rear rotor rubs on the pad. I even let a 100 pound girl try it and same thing. The wheel is tight but I can flex the frame so the disk touched by hand. There doesn't seem to be excessive frame flex. 
It's very minor, just wonder if his is normal? 
(I have not had a bike with disk brakes before.)


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Dave Hanna said:


> So I have tighten the rear end as much as possible. But still when I pedal the rear rotor rubs on the pad. I even let a 100 pound girl try it and same thing. The wheel is tight but I can flex the frame so the disk touched by hand. There doesn't seem to be excessive frame flex.
> It's very minor, just wonder if his is normal?
> (I have not had a bike with disk brakes before.)


Did you align the caliper to the installed rotor? The rotor should be centered between the open brake pads, as well as parallel to them. See that both pads move similarly. You may have to move the caliper slightly, and also check that the rotor is not warped.
My rear caliper hit the frame and could not be adjusted outboard without grinding a little off the caliper.

-F


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Did everyone notice that the Sturgis is avail to pre-order in Titanium with Bluto and Tubeless tires... Sounds pretty cool!


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Dolbydarma said:


> Did everyone notice that the Sturgis is avail to pre-order in Titanium with Bluto and Tubeless tires... Sounds pretty cool!


I saw that. Bike is spec'd pretty nice.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

joebikesdirect said:


> Hi - to this is not an accurate way to tell. We have made the Current Gen hangers in both colors. Previous Gen hangers are no longer made  All Sturgis/Nighttrain hangers are now current Generation. Hanger #28
> Derailleur Hangers for Bicycles, Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, Hybrid, Comfort and More Save Up to 60% Off New Bikes


Joe,

How soon do you expect to have them out to all bike and frame owners? I haven't received mine yet.

Thanks

Brian


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Negotiator50 said:


> It is. I was able to get it out by loosening the crank arm bolts. I would still like to purchase a replacement so looking to find one now.


Check BD's other site: www.bikeisland.com

They have the bolts on the "cranks" page.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Not all Motobecane Sturgis/NightTrain bike/frame owners need to have a new hanger. Please email our staff at [email protected]  


Bnystrom said:


> Joe,
> 
> How soon do you expect to have them out to all bike and frame owners? I haven't received mine yet.
> 
> ...


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

*a slimmer Sturg*

Just tried out my new 29+ wheelset... had BZ build up a set of Velocity Dually's, with a pair of Dirt Wizards. 29x3... and a big shout goes out to Larry at BikesDirect..... due to a mix up on my part... the rear hub was a 190.. when in essence I guess being a thru axle it needed to be 197mm...

Well BD went beyond by sending me a set of the spacers I needed...:thumbsup:

Had the slimmer Sturg out last night, got a feeling I am going to be liking this set up for certain rides... set it up split tube in less than 20 min. and so far this morning after the shake down ride last night. both wheels are still holding fine..


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

twright205 said:


> Just tried out my new 29+ wheelset... had BZ build up a set of Velocity Dually's, with a pair of Dirt Wizards. 29x3... and a big shout goes out to Larry at BikesDirect..... due to a mix up on my part... the rear hub was a 190.. when in essence I guess being a thru axle it needed to be 197mm...
> 
> Well BD went beyond by sending me a set of the spacers I needed...:thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Which tire is taller, 29x3 or 26x4.x?
How close is it behind the bottom bracket?

Thanks,
-F


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

Fleas said:


> Which tire is taller, 29x3 or 26x4.x?
> How close is it behind the bottom bracket?
> 
> Thanks,
> -F


about 3/4 of an inch between tire and that cross brace by bottom bracket, more than an inch from down tube. plenty of space on bluto as well.

the 29x3 is a bit over an inch taller than my mounted up husker du's.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

This trail proved way too much for me and the fat. Had to carry it up this one I'm afraid.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Dolbydarma said:


> This trail proved way too much for me and the fat. Had to carry it up this one I'm afraid.
> View attachment 998384


Don't sweat it... You'll get up there.


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## Dave Hanna (May 20, 2015)

*Awesome fun*

Took the bike to the coast this weekend, what a blast!

Brakes are working 100% better, I think my crank click has gone away. Or maybe I was just having so much fun i didn't care any more. Talk about riding a bike where i didn't think it was possible!


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Road in Eastern CO today, looked a lot like MN! 














Well some looked a little like CO...


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

twright205 said:


> about 3/4 of an inch between tire and that cross brace by bottom bracket, more than an inch from down tube. plenty of space on bluto as well.
> 
> the 29x3 is a bit over an inch taller than my mounted up husker du's.
> View attachment 998307
> ...


Then they probably could've made the chainstays at least a 1/2" shorter, huh.
:???:

-F


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

*My Orange Sturgis*

Sharing here my Orange Sturgis Fatty. The frameset and wheelset were purchased from BD. I set it up to a 1x10 with 30T RF NW chainring and added 42T cog at the rear (17T removed). The SRAM X5 crankarms has plenty of clearance at the chainstay.

I tried installing the Mucky Nutz front fender at the lower arch but the tire clearance is so minimal and there is some rubbing so i decided to install the fender at the upper arch. I guess the vee rubber snowshoe is not the ideal tire for this fender.
















Cheers!


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Looks awesome. I see also your butt is a fan of the fizik gobi xm. Such a good saddle.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

tfinator said:


> Looks awesome. I see also your butt is a fan of the fizik gobi xm. Such a good saddle.


Thanks tfinator and yup - i like the fizik gobi saddle and it's also on my Yeti ASR5C trail bike - the red black color.

if budget permits - i'll try to make my Fatty lighter and 1st on my list is to replace the heavy 26x4.7 72tpi Snowshoe tires with Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 4.0 127tpi or Kenda Juggernaut Pro 4.0 120tpi.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Snapped my Samox crank clean off last night. Overshot a jump pretty badly, landed in the flat, and she gave up the ghost. One too many huck to flats, I guess. 

Shiny new Cinch setup coming. Going dedicated 1x with a wolftooth ring. 

Curious about bash options. Can I use an ISCG adapter behind the BB with these, coupled with a taco bash?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

AllMountin' said:


> Snapped my Samox crank clean off last night. Overshot a jump pretty badly, landed in the flat, and she gave up the ghost. One too many huck to flats, I guess.
> 
> Shiny new Cinch setup coming. Going dedicated 1x with a wolftooth ring.
> 
> Curious about bash options. Can I use an ISCG adapter behind the BB with these, coupled with a taco bash?


^^^^^pics or it didn't happen!!!!!


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

watermonkey said:


> ^^^^^pics or it didn't happen!!!!!


I totally believe it happened. When I was assembling a friend's Night Train I told him the crankset would probably be the first failure.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

The aftermath:










Seems like having those spacers must really increase the leverage acting on that spot where the spindle enters the BB. I'm 200# and hit every lip, curb, and staircase I can point my bike at. Unless you ride similarly, I wouldn't sweat it.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

AllMountin' said:


> The aftermath:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So if I'm seeing that properly, the spindle broke just outside the bearing, but the crank arm is fine?
I thought the spindle might be weaker than the arm, just looking at it. The arm is not light.

Glad you didn't run over your own foot or something.

-F


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

AllMountin' said:


> The aftermath:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like bragging rights to me!
I remember the first time I broke a suspension fork, and later a frame. Just means you're riding harder than the avg Joe. But that's just my opinion.


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## Paulg (Dec 5, 2004)

Wondering if anyone might have a suggestion for this?

I was trying to install a Race Face Bashguard Light on the Night Train bullet Samox crank. All was going well until I saw that the outer chain ring pin (which keeps the chain from dropping behind the crank arm) was interfering with the bashguard. The bash guard is symmetrical so there is no relief for the pin. Looking for the best option - 

1. file out or machine out relief into the bash guard? or
2. remove the pin from the chainring. What is the best way? cutting it or can it be pressed out like a chain link pin?

Curious if anyone else has encountered this issue and what was done?

Thanks,
Paul


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Would strongly advise against doing anything to the chain ring


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

*Night Light*

Bought a light during REI's sale last Sunday and have had three great night rides in the last 4 days!















Check out the cool red moon in the 2nd shot!


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Anyone upgrade/replace their brake pads yet? Any recommendations?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Dolbydarma said:


> Anyone upgrade/replace their brake pads yet? Any recommendations?


Bump. Noticed my rear pads are getting low this weekend.
In related news I did a descent on my NTB that I hadn't done in a long time, and had only done on my xc bike.
Beat my previous pr by about 10%.
Super fun!


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## Dave Hanna (May 20, 2015)

So can anyone confirm if this will fit in my Strugis?

http://www.amazon.com/Race-Face-Turbine-Crank-100mm/dp/B00A435ZGW

"RaceFace Turbine Crank" it says in the comments its not for a 190mm rear end so I guess I need a spacer "D30144" ?

Basically in need a new one, and I want to get a "cost effective" upgrade. 
I think my LBS just gave up.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Dave Hanna said:


> So can anyone confirm if this will fit in my Strugis?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Race-Face-Turbine-Crank-100mm/dp/B00A435ZGW
> 
> ...


If you'll set it up as a 1X crank then it will work just like what i did with my Sturgis with SRAM X5 crankarms (170mm OLD) which i converted to a 1X setup with 30T RF NW chainring. I still have about 8mm clearance between the crankarms (drive side) and chainstay. Also, about 8mm clearance between the chain (42T largest cog/lowest gear) and my snowhoe 4.7 (72tpi) tires. I used 2 BB spacers on the driveside and 1 spacer at the non-drive side.

Based on my measurement - the 4.7 snowhoe is only 4 on my weinmann hl80 rims so i think up to 4.5 actual width tires can still fit on a Sturgis on a 1X 170mm OLD setup with 2mm estimated tire clearance.

Anyway, we don't have snow here in the Phils. so i'm using my Fatty only for the trails and road. And my replacement tire would be a husker du 4" 120tpi tire. If budget permits - i'll also upgrade to the lighter RF Turbine Cranks or perhaps the Cinch version.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!


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## Dave Hanna (May 20, 2015)

scottspark60 said:


> If you'll set it up as a 1X crank then it will work just like what i did with my Sturgis with SRAM X5 crankarms (170mm OLD) which i converted to a 1X setup with 30T RF NW chainring. I still have about 8mm clearance between the crankarms (drive side) and chainstay. Also, about 8mm clearance between the chain (42T largest cog/lowest gear) and my snowhoe 4.7 (72tpi) tires. I used 2 BB spacers on the driveside and 1 spacer at the non-drive side.
> 
> Based on my measurement - the 4.7 snowhoe is only 4 on my weinmann hl80 rims so i think up to 4.5 actual width tires can still fit on a Sturgis on a 1X 170mm OLD setup with 2mm estimated tire clearance.
> 
> ...


Good info thanks


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

The new 2016 versions of the Bullets take care of the two things I didn't care for on my rig, replaces the Weinman's with Mulefut's and the Samox's with Race Face cranks. That's a mighty nice bike for $1800.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I wonder if they will sell the mulfuts as an upgrade kit?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Hopefully they changed hubs in addition to rims.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Same hubs, but honestly, I haven't had any problems with the Novatec's with a thru-axle and the steel, 4 pawl freehub. Different story on the QR Lurch with Aluminum freehub though.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

watermonkey said:


> The new 2016 versions of the Bullets take care of the two things I didn't care for on my rig, replaces the Weinman's with Mulefut's and the Samox's with Race Face cranks. That's a mighty nice bike for $1800.


I am considering Mulefut (810g), Rolling Darryl (860g) or Marge Lite (690g) to replace the Weinmann HL80s (1000g). If ever - i'll retain the Novatec hubs.

Also, thinking of replacing my SRAM X5 crankarms/BB with Raceface Turbine or perhaps the Cinch model.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

scottspark60 said:


> I am considering Mulefut (810g), Rolling Darryl (860g) or Marge Lite (690g) to replace the Weinmann HL80s (1000g). If ever - i'll retain the Novatec hubs.
> 
> Also, thinking of replacing my SRAM X5 crankarms/BB with Raceface Turbine or perhaps the Cinch model.


If you're not riding snow I'd go with a lighter rim in the 60mm range. Also narrower tires, but that's up to you.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Yep, Marge Lites would be my 1st choice for an all - arounder and then DT Swiss that are in the 700+ gram category...4 to 5 inch tires work on either one. I do like the Mulefut on the new NTB's for a stock rim and WAY better than the HL80's we're runnning.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Yup - Marge Lite and Husker Du is a good lightweight rim and tires combo for the trails! I'll go for it when budget is available.

Cheers!


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Just switching to Fat b Nimble 4" made a big difference for summer riding. They are quite a bit narrower (about 3.8")






even on the 80mm rims than stock and about a pound lighter. I'd love to have them on some 65mm rims eventually!


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## Timpanogos (Jun 26, 2009)

I got my first fat bike. It's actually my only bike because I regrettably sold my beloved Cannondale Prophet last year. 







The original owner did the following upgrades:
-Carbon fork from BikesDirect
-Carbon handlebars
-OneUp 42T ring for the cassette
-Specialized grips

He told me it weighed 32 pounds. Yeah, right! Here's what I did to it:
-Removed front derailleur and shifter (I'm running 22T up front for now)
-Cut 3 inches off the seat post
-Added a chain tensioner for $0.50

Now it weighs 33.4 pounds. I paid $900. I like it.


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

A 22?!? with a 42?! HOLY TORQUE Batman!

Seems like a fair deal, hope you enjoy it.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

I see a 28T to 32T front ring in your future, but who am I to say. I just went through a crank upgrade on the Sturgis. I went with RF Turbine and 24/36 because I didn't think the simplicity of 1x would help me much going up hills in snow in the winter. That's a nice looking bike!


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## Timpanogos (Jun 26, 2009)

I really thought I would want higher gearing, but I have not once needed a higher gear yet. I want to be able to climb the steep hills and blaze trails through snow. Maybe if I lose weight from my bike and my belly, I will throw on a 26T front ring.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

So what's the word on the Novatech hubs, mainly the rear? 
I've searched and found little on the BD 29er fat wheelest . anyone try these? thanks


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Hey guys, been a while. I'm still confused on the crankset options. What upgrade fits the Night Train off the shelf? We need to use the two spacers because of the hub spacing and chainline but isn't a 127 mm spindle necessary to have room for the arm to fit on? All I see is 100 mm options. Looking on the cheap, X5, RF Ride or something.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

siv said:


> Hey guys, been a while. I'm still confused on the crankset options. What upgrade fits the Night Train off the shelf? We need to use the two spacers because of the hub spacing and chainline but isn't a 127 mm spindle necessary to have room for the arm to fit on? All I see is 100 mm options. Looking on the cheap, X5, RF Ride or something.


+1

I am a novice when it comes to these things. Exact part numbers would be helpful.

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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

siv said:


> Hey guys, been a while. I'm still confused on the crankset options. What upgrade fits the Night Train off the shelf? We need to use the two spacers because of the hub spacing and chainline but isn't a 127 mm spindle necessary to have room for the arm to fit on? All I see is 100 mm options. Looking on the cheap, X5, RF Ride or something.


I went ahead and ordered the RF Turbine 100 mm bottom bracket and spec'd it for a 170mm rear hub. It fits fine and leaves a bit over 1/4 inch space between the crank arm and rear stays on the bike. The way the stays are shaped on the bike, hour-glass, I did not experience heel or foot strikes whatsoever. It also reduces the Q-factor, if that's important to you....but I like the setup better than the wider spaced Samox stock cranks with the spacers. Picked up the crankset, bottom bracket and 32 tooth NW ring from Bikeman.com for around $180!


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Finally lightened up the NTB today with 50mm carbon rims, new hubs, and Trax Fatty 3.25 tires. My local bike shop did and excellent job on the build and help to lower the rolling weight on the bike to almost 5 lbs! It definitely feels more like a mtn bike and still allows for low pressure that I really like with the fat tires. Great summer ride that will keep me on the bike even more this year! :thumbsup:


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

NH Mtbiker said:


> I went ahead and ordered the RF Turbine 100 mm bottom bracket and spec'd it for a 170mm rear hub. It fits fine and leaves a bit over 1/4 inch space between the crank arm and rear stays on the bike. The way the stays are shaped on the bike, hour-glass, I did not experience heel or foot strikes whatsoever. It also reduces the Q-factor, if that's important to you....but I like the setup better than the wider spaced Samox stock cranks with the spacers. Picked up the crankset, bottom bracket and 32 tooth NW ring from Bikeman.com for around $180!


$180 for RF Turbine crank arms, 100mm BB and RF NW chainring is i think a bargain. I'm running on 1x10 too - Sram X5 170 OLD crankarms with 30T RF NW chainring on my Sturgis. Thinking of replacing the heavy X5 with the lighter Turbine later. 
May i know the price of the RF Turbine crankarms and BB only?
Thanks.

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## Dave Hanna (May 20, 2015)

So far I have not been having much luck with my new bike. Probably only have like 15miles on it. 

Bottom bracket was noisy from the start. bikes direct was pretty good about it. The LBS was basically worthless. Rather than fix it they just gave my bike back and oh by the way, the rear hub is making noises now too. :-/

So the question is. What tool do I need to remove the BB? I got one, but it doesn't fit.

The next issue was the rear hub, bikes direct said they would get a replacement in "in a few months" which was not really expectable. So they cut me a ok deal on a whole new rear wheel. I received it today and it almost looks used? So anyway I swapped my cassette and disk.... And it didn't fit.... It was about a 1/2" too narrow. 
I was ready to blow my top, then in with the QR stuff I saw 2 spacer things that fit quite nicely where the wheel meets the frame. So that worked, not sure what the deal is?


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

the hub fits 190 spacing and 197. The spacers are used for 197 which is what you have. Did you not have the spacers on the orig. wheel? Reason I'm curios is I just received the 29er fat wheel set which include the spacers . Kinda silly, but understandable w/ the different rear spacing.


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## Dave Hanna (May 20, 2015)

rjedoaks said:


> the hub fits 190 spacing and 197. The spacers are used for 197 which is what you have. Did you not have the spacers on the orig. wheel? Reason I'm curios is I just received the 29er fat wheel set which include the spacers . Kinda silly, but understandable w/ the different rear spacing.


No spacers with the first wheel. And it has the same hub? Well that's good to know so the Sturgis has a 197 rear end? So if I wanted a hub to fit without spacers I would be looking for a 197?

It is crazy all the spacers on fatbikes
Spacers on the front hub.
Spacers on the back hub.
Spacers on the BB.
Spacers on the crank.

Sounds like a Dr Suess book.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*Time for a Reality Check*



Dave Hanna said:


> So far I have not been having much luck with my new bike. Probably only have like 15miles on it...


This seems like a good opportunity to point out a couple of things that are important for people who are contemplating purchasing BD bikes to understand. *This is not meant as a slam against you or BD*, it's just a statement of the realities of buying bikes directly from a manufacturer or importer.


If you're going to buy a bike online, you either have to have the tools and expertise to work on it yourself or have access to a good mechanic. While some higher-end online sellers have contracts with local shops to assemble, fit and service their customer's bikes, BD is not one of them. 


Even a good shop that's willing and able to work on a BD bike can't help you with warranty issues. My experience with BD is that they'll bend over backward to be helpful, but it's still a long-distance relationship. It takes time to ship parts back and forth and they don't have every part of every bike in stock at all times. 

I have two BD bikes that I'm quite happy with, but I'm also a former bike shop manager/mechanic, so understand the points above and I'm able to deal with them. People who don't have the resources to do so are better off buying through a bike shop. That's why they exist, to provide service to people who cannot do it themselves.


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## Dave Hanna (May 20, 2015)

Bnystrom said:


> This seems like a good opportunity to point out a couple of things that are important for people who are contemplating purchasing BD bikes to understand. *This is not meant as a slam against you or BD*, it's just a statement of the realities of buying bikes directly from a manufacturer or importer.


Exactly. It definitely needs to be taken into account.

I still think the BD bikes are good value. And although I haven't done much riding, it's a good learning curve fixing it. 
It's also a good learning curve learning the good LBS from the average ones.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Dave Hanna said:


> Exactly. It definitely needs to be taken into account.
> 
> I still think the BD bikes are good value. And although I haven't done much riding, it's a good learning curve fixing it.
> It's also a good learning curve learning the good LBS from the average ones.


Well, you definitely have the right attitude. Keep on learnin'! :thumbsup:


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Still loving this ride. Recently upgraded brakes, added a different dropper and smaller front big ring (still running dinglespeed 1x10, need the granny around here).

Changes to stock;
Split tubeless with homebrew sealant and super light rim strips,
Slick honey in Bluto + 2 tokens,
KS Eten dropper,
40mm stem,
Gravity light riser bars + clamp on grips,
XT brakes and 180mm ice-tech rotors,
Saddle was WTB silverado but went back to Speed V that came with it - it's goofy looking but all day comfortable,
32T front big chainring (best thing I've done yet - really livens up the ride and makes shifts between granny and big ring so smooth),
Snowshoes for everything dirt, mud and rock and sand, Bud/Lou for snow.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Has anyone had to replace the bottom bracket for the Samox crank that comes on the Night Train / Sturgis? Mine is shot and I need to replace it, but the crank arm doesn't fit through thr Shimano Hollowtech one I had on another bike. Any suggestions on which one I can buy that is compatible?


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Negotiator50 said:


> Has anyone had to replace the bottom bracket for the Samox crank that comes on the Night Train / Sturgis? Mine is shot and I need to replace it, but the crank arm doesn't fit through thr Shimano Hollowtech one I had on another bike. Any suggestions on which one I can buy that is compatible?


Can you measure the axle on your crankset? I have two bikes at home I can compare it with. One has a Raceface BB and the other has Surly OD. MAYBE it's the same as one of them.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

watermonkey said:


> Still loving this ride. Recently upgraded brakes, added a different dropper and smaller front big ring (still running dinglespeed 1x10, need the granny around here).
> 
> Changes to stock;
> Split tubeless with homebrew sealant and super light rim strips,
> ...


What tubes did you use for split ghetto tubeless? Did you need to build up with packing foam or other material to seat the bead? How low psi are you able to run? Thanx


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

NYrr496 said:


> Can you measure the axle on your crankset? I have two bikes at home I can compare it with. One has a Raceface BB and the other has Surly OD. MAYBE it's the same as one of them.


24mm is the axle. That's strange though since the shimano bb70 I have should fit but for some reason it doesn't.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Negotiator50 said:


> 24mm is the axle. That's strange though since the shimano bb70 I have should fit but for some reason it doesn't.


That is strange. I'll check what I have later when I get home.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

siv said:


> What tubes did you use for split ghetto tubeless? Did you need to build up with packing foam or other material to seat the bead? How low psi are you able to run? Thanx


Q-Tubes 24" x 2.4-2.75" 32mm PRESTA Valve Tube.
Sill foam - 2 wraps or one wrap of the wide stuff folded over itself.

I have three different fat bikes with HL-80's and every one is set up flawless with split tube - and they're re-usable, regardless of popular perception. And that is even with the crappy bead profile of Surly tires. One thing I never hear mentioned is people inspecting and prepping the tire bead itself. Surly's are especially bad, but the V tires require attention as well. Use a new razor blade or xacto blade and cut off all the sprues (nubbies from the molding process) and residual rubber imperfections that will compromise the contact between the bead and rim. Most of the weeping I experienced early on was coming from around one of these spots where I hadn't trimmed the bead clean.

I'm a big guy and regularly ran as low as 3.5 psi on the Bud/Lou in winter with this method. Summer riding sweet spot for me is 9 and 9 on the snowshoes. With this setup, I've had inadvertent rim strikes bombing through some super chunk, but no burps.

Tape methods are a waste of time and money, cling wrap is light but too delicate, and every single tape method I've successfully set up to hold air would burp continuously at low/med low psi's.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Thanks for the tips. Definetely gonna try it before dropping money on a set of Mulefuts. Just bought a pair of Van Helgas for winter, they work well here in PA, not impressed with my Snowshies at all.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

NYrr496 said:


> That is strange. I'll check what I have later when I get home.


No worries. It looks like the Shimano XT bb fit. I just needed to hammer it through a bit as it was a tight fit. Works as good as new now.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Nice. I figured it was going to.

:thumbsup:


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Any of you guys running the Raceface Cinch crankset, with the BSA-30 bottom bracket? I've installed and reinstalled mine several times, but can't seem to dial out the creaking. It will go away after reinstall, but won't last a ride before starting back up. Tried an extra spacer, which just starts to preload the bearings without the preload ring. Tried Teflon tape on the cup threads, but I'm pretty sure the cup threads aren't the culprit. 

Maybe I'll try antiseize and relubing everything, but am wondering if the creaking is inherent to the BSA-30 design?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

I'm not sure how the cinch is deferent than my race face ride, but I had to tighten my crank set about 50% more forceful than any other crank I've installed.
Maybe just go ham on the thing?


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## Timpanogos (Jun 26, 2009)

I know many of you have you been wondering what became of the guy with 22t ring in front and 42t ring in the back. I am here to report. I recently put a 26t ring on the front. It's good for me. I also want to show off my awesome chain tensioner that costs less than $1:









It shows that it's possible to have a 1x drivetrain on a small budget. Also, the original owner was a good color coordinator:


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Timpanogos said:


> I know many of you have you been wondering what became of the guy with 22t ring in front and 42t ring in the back. I am here to report. I recently put a 26t ring on the front. It's good for me. I also want to show off my awesome chain tensioner that costs less than $1:
> 
> View attachment 1005216


That's hilariously ghetto. I'm not sure how long it will last... But it's cheap and easy to replace!


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

What's the little sleeve made of?


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## Timpanogos (Jun 26, 2009)

It's a piece of sprinkler tube. It's cut the whole length so I can pry it open to put it over the chain. I've been using methods like this for a couple years. It could last for months or something could snap a zip tie at any time. I should put an extra one in my camelbak since it weighs nothing and it's so cheap and easy to replace, like tfinator said. I'm just not going to spend money when I don't need to.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

*Nighttrain Bullet For Sale*

Hey guys!

I got a 17.5 Matte black Nighttrain bullet I'm thinking of letting go, just don't ride it enough. It only has a handful of small 3-5 mile rides on it. Perfect condition. Anyone have any interest? Located in Portland, OR.

17.5" Medium 
Matte black
Rockshox Bluto 120mm
Sun Ringle Mulefut wheels 
Bud and Lou tires
SRAM 2x10 (x7,x9)
SRAM Guide brakes 180mm
Enve Carbon Flatbar
Raceface 60mm stem
Reverb dropper

Thinking around $2200.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

I'm only worried that it looks like you zip tied it to the brake line? Anyway, you can always upgrade to a 26T or 28T for not too much money, but use it as is until you're sure what gear you want and sure that the money is worth it.

64 BCD Chainrings ? wolftoothcomponents.com

I want a double with a big ring so I can catch up to the other riders on the downhill.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Techspec360 said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I got a 17.5 Matte black Nighttrain bullet I'm thinking of letting go, just don't ride it enough. It only has a handful of small 3-5 mile rides on it. Perfect condition. Anyone have any interest? Located in Portland, OR.
> 
> ...


Do you have the long awaited for FatPike?


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

I've heard the five inch tires fit the stock pike, so looking as you run low pressure and don't mind if they won't roll.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

AllMountin' said:


> I've heard the five inch tires fit the stock pike, so looking as you run low pressure and don't mind if they won't roll.


Now that is funny. Must be why he only has a few short rides on it.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

watermonkey said:


> Do you have the long awaited for FatPike?


The Bluto, yes!


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

watermonkey said:


> Do you have the long awaited for FatPike?





mtb_fun said:


> Now that is funny. Must be why he only has a few short rides on it.


Sorry guys, typo. I apologize for not being as f****ing cool as you two smart asses


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## Timpanogos (Jun 26, 2009)

duplicate


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## Timpanogos (Jun 26, 2009)

ETChipotle said:


> I'm only worried that it looks like you zip tied it to the brake line? Anyway, you can always upgrade to a 26T or 28T for not too much money, but use it as is until you're sure what gear you want and sure that the money is worth it.


It's tied to the rear derailleur cable housing. Is that bad?

I just put a 26T ring on it. It's in that picture. I've had it for a couple years.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Techspec360 said:


> Sorry guys, typo. I apologize for not being as f****ing cool as you two smart asses


If we can't be smart asses on the internet where can we go?!

But seriously you should take out an ad properly. Search paid spam.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

I feel like this has to have been covered, but I'm getting a whole lot of search fail. 

What crown race are you guys putting on your carbon forks? Best I can tell, this bike uses the Orbit 1.5 ZS(#57?) headset. That should use the No. 57-6 crown race, or part #H6088.

Can someone confirm or refute this? Also, where did you get it? Online availability seems scarce. Order thru QBP? BTI only lists the reducer race.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Snow? Check.
Mud? Check.
Sand? Check.

This is a fatbike trail.









Out in the water, around that tree, and back up on the beach beyond it.

I ended up with sand in my chain, and very possibly many other more critical places on my bike, but it just goes!
I will provide a bearing wear analysis if/when I ever need to get into it.

Anyway, it went great in sand - except for one spot that had been ridden over by multiple vehicles on a turn. The sand was extremely loose/soft/unstable. While I could just still go, I could not turn. Lower tire pressure would've fixed that, but then it would have been unpleasant everywhere else.
btw - I set my tire pressure at ~10.5psi F/R as well as I can measure it, then just rode the bike for a few weeks without checking tire pressure until it just felt right. Checked it again so I'd know what that "perfect" pressure was. Then I just kept riding it until it felt like mushy crap. I now know my window of performance for tire pressure is about 8.5-10.5psi rear, and 9.5-11.5psi front (11.5 is pretty high).

Here's the Sturgis Bullet at rest.








-F


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

I've had this Sturgis Bullet since early March. First few rides were on hardpack snow, and it was awesome. Truth be told any bike would have worked but I had a blast.

I changed the saddle to a cheap parts bin thing and converted to 1x with a 64bcd 28t ring from Absolute Black. Had to do that after 5 or 6 teeth let go on the little ring, sending me over the bars and to the hospital with a dislocated shoulder. No problems since and the single ring is perfect. I do not give a **** about losing top end due to limitations of the 28/12. This ain't no race bike!

I had swapped out the original stem for a 90mm parts bin piece but the self steer was always a problem. Nothing I couldn't overcome but it dominated my experience with this bike. This past week I swapped out the OEM 700mm bars for some scratch and dent ($20!) 800s and stole a 70mm stem from my kids CX bike. Wow, what a huge difference. It obviously still has the same steering issues but the wider bars offer so much leverage I can barely feel it.

This bike is awesome.

I'd love to drop some weight and bring the q factor in a bit but screw it, those are minor things that won't add enough to the ride to justify the cost. I like it just fine.










Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## Zaskar24 (Jun 7, 2008)

Just joined the club. Or will be when the 2016 Sturgis Bullet I pre-ordered today gets here in September. First BD bike as well as first fat bike and am really excited. Plan on riding it and seeing how I like it. Probably going to be changing out the bars for some wider carbons and possibly the brakes for some Ice Tech Shimanos. Other than that I am going to flog this thing around in the snow and see how I like it over my 9r that I normally ride.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

You're going to like it. Be excited. I bought the first round that arrived early November, and I'm newer to biking. I don't know much about the brakes you want, but if you get a decent amount of snow where you are, I'd recommend putting some cash aside for a spare set of tires. For me the stock tires are 3 season tires, and okay for some days in the winter. Several times with significant snow, it wasn't easy to stay upright and on the trail. Some rides were a lot tougher as a result. Carbon bars probably a good idea to keep the cold from the whole bike frame conducting into your hands. I'm not savvy to the coolness of the brakes you want to upgrade to, but think the tires are probably going to be more important at some point.

Compared to the original shipment Sturgis Bullet, the new model upgrades the things on the bike that I would most want to change: rims, crankset, lack of brazeons and of course the derailleur hanger issue is over now. I wish I was buying one!


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

I just ordered a 2016 Sturgis Bullet, large, in red. Also ordered the 29er wheelset. Wanted to get the carbon fork as well, but it was out of stock. 

So now that I can't wait to get it....but I have to. So, now I wait.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Ok, so I haven't kept up enough with the current tire brands and weights. I would like to put a set of smooth, street-friendly tires on my NTB.

I know the current fashion is to jump to a 29er wheelset, but I would like to keep the stock wheels and just put different tires on it for a commuting experiment.

I know the Surly Black Floyds are light and nicely treaded, but they are designed for 65mm rims, and IIRC the NTB features 80mm rims.

Can the Floyds work in this situation, or is there a newer, better, tire waiting for me?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Ok, so I haven't kept up enough with the current tire brands and weights. I would like to put a set of smooth, street-friendly tires on my NTB.
> 
> I know the current fashion is to jump to a 29er wheelset, but I would like to keep the stock wheels and just put different tires on it for a commuting experiment.
> 
> ...


I just did a 17 mile road ride with a buddy yesterday with the Floyds punped up to 30psi mounted on stock 80mm rims. Worked great.

As long as you don't plan on keeping up with the skinny tire crew, you'll be fine. Tires were great on the tarmac.

No handed riding takes some practice as there is a bit of self steer with the Floyds. I imagine they would inspire more confidence on 65 or 50 mm rims.

For me they work well enough that I am not going to shell out the ducets for a second wheelset just yet.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Great news! I wonder if the Vee 3.5 speedster is any good?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

I went with the narrower fat-b-nimbals (120 tpi) and can say they are a huge improvement over the stock tires for pavement, and they are dirt cheap. Are they the best fat tire for road??? I have no idea. But they are a pretty great all around tire that I've been loving the last couple months on all kinds of terrain. Just my 2 cents.


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## farleybob (May 22, 2012)

I rode my Mukluk on RAGBRAI this year with Vee Speesters and it went very well. (Ragbrai is a 500 mile road ride across the state of Iowa)


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> Further review after the last ride indicates that my NDS crank bearing has been contaminated. While the "seals" are pretty weak, I'm going to fess up and say that it's probably my own fault that I didn't pack the "seals" with grease to keep water-borne grit from getting in. Riding in the frozen conditions it was of no concern, but in my haste to ride I forgot to get back to it. :madman: My advice is to catch it early. It was literally overnight that the bearing nearly seized up. I'm good at reviving old, abused parts, though, so I got it smoothed out again. :thumbsup:
> View attachment 989464
> 
> BTW - after this ride, I washed the bike - gently - and still poured out about a 1/4 cup of clean water from the NDS chainstay and bottom bracket. So the frame is not sealed very tight. I may have to address that with the clear silicone (which also addresses cable rub if applied neatly).
> ...





Fleas said:


> Snow? Check.
> Mud? Check.
> Sand? Check.
> 
> ...


How to wash your bike.







Just updating the condition of my bearings. Packing grease all over the bearings - even though they are cartridge bearings they are not necessarily sealed very well - seems to have kept all the water out.
I've ridden up above the axles in Lake Erie (lots of sand stirring around in the water) and in a creek and have done no bearing maintenance and felt no ill effects. The chain was super clean and needed some oil, but that's it. The full-length cable housing is helping to keep it shifting right in poor conditions, too.

-F


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Haven't been following this thread as closely as I did in the past...was there ever a resolution for those of us that bought first generation bikes that had the weak rear der. hanger? I thought I read that BD was sending 3rd gen hangers out to us. I haven't received anything to this point. Thanks.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

OnThaCouch said:


> Haven't been following this thread as closely as I did in the past...was there ever a resolution for those of us that bought first generation bikes that had the weak rear der. hanger? I thought I read that BD was sending 3rd gen hangers out to us. I haven't received anything to this point. Thanks.


Contact them. I got mine months ago


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

tfinator said:


> Contact them. I got mine months ago


Thanks. Just sent off the email.

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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

*6'7" tall Rider Night Train Ti TTE 651mm*

Hello,

I'm tall, 6'7" and choices are limited with a limited budget.

I see the Geo on the Ti Sturgis and Night Train is 651mm Top Tube Effective.

I wanted to hear from the taller riders on XL frames, what their thoughts are on a 6'7" person to fit this without a lot of bandaids.

Thanks,
H


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Size question for 6'2" to 6'3" riders: better to go L or XL? I'm a tweener and I'm leaning toward the smaller size for lower stand-over (for dismounting in the snow) and more agile handling because I imagine those massive tires slow steering enough as it is. I prefer 70-90mm stems on my mountain bikes. I really wish Bikes Direct would publish the reach and stack numbers of their bikes. If someone could get out a level and some string and measure the reach of a large or XL, that would help a ton! I can give a quick tutorial on how to measure reach if you are unsure.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

OhioPT said:


> Size question for 6'2" to 6'3" riders: better to go L or XL? I'm a tweener and I'm leaning toward the smaller size for lower stand-over (for dismounting in the snow) and more agile handling because I imagine those massive tires slow steering enough as it is. I prefer 70-90mm stems on my mountain bikes. I really wish Bikes Direct would publish the reach and stack numbers of their bikes. If someone could get out a level and some string and measure the reach of a large or XL, that would help a ton! I can give a quick tutorial on how to measure reach if you are unsure.


Page 11 of this thread has a poster named Dest0r. 6'3" and the debate of L or XL and stem preferences. It sheds little light on the upper end of the 6'7" claim by BD. hope it helps you out
H


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Bnystrom said:


> If you do the math, that's not the case. I needed a 1" longer seatpost in my 19" frame. His inseam is 4" shorter than mine and the frame is only 1.5" smaller. Based on that, he should have 1.5" to spare.


Bikes Direct specs a 400mm seatpost. So you had to use a 425mm post for your 35" inseem? I have a 36" inseem, so now I'm thinking I should go XL if this is the case.


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## dubinjs (Nov 6, 2010)

Got my hanger months ago as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

dubinjs said:


> Got my hanger months ago as well
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Emailed them and my replacement hanger is in the mail.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

OhioPT said:


> Size question for 6'2" to 6'3" riders: better to go L or XL? I'm a tweener and I'm leaning toward the smaller size for lower stand-over (for dismounting in the snow) and more agile handling because I imagine those massive tires slow steering enough as it is. I prefer 70-90mm stems on my mountain bikes. I really wish Bikes Direct would publish the reach and stack numbers of their bikes. If someone could get out a level and some string and measure the reach of a large or XL, that would help a ton! I can give a quick tutorial on how to measure reach if you are unsure.


I am 6'-3" and riding a large. I've always ridden around a 20" frame, but never a 21". It fits me very well. I maybe could go with a 10mm shorter stem, but it is perfectly comfortable. 28-1/2" from seat clamp to h-bar clamp. My XC 29er is 28, but bars are lower with less bar sweep.

-F


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Fleas said:


> I am 6'-3" and riding a large. I've always ridden around a 20" frame, but never a 21". It fits me very well. I maybe could go with a 10mm shorter stem, but it is perfectly comfortable. 28-1/2" from seat clamp to h-bar clamp. My XC 29er is 28, but bars are lower with less bar sweep.
> 
> -F


Thanks!


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

I'm 5'10.5" & got the large. Would not want it any shorter. 70m stem, 800m bars. Only problem is stepping off on crusty snow and breaking through with my foot. I want more stand over at that moment.

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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

myette10 said:


> I'm 5'10.5" & got the large. Would not want it any shorter. 70m stem, 800m bars. Only problem is stepping off on crusty snow and breaking through with my foot. I want more stand over at that moment.
> 
> Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


I'm 6'5" and with the XL NT Bullet. I also am using an 80mm stem and riser bar if that helps any.

Love the size of the XL, and glad I didn't go smaller.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Having trouble going tubeless yet with the stock rims. What are you guys using to fill the gap between the inside of the rim and the tire? Thinking of just getting some Mulefuts and using the Novatech hubs to keep the price down if I can't get this to work


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

fripp said:


> I'm 6'5" and with the XL NT Bullet. I also am using an 80mm stem and riser bar if that helps any.
> 
> Love the size of the XL, and glad I didn't go smaller.


Thank you. sounds like this might be a solution.


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Fleas said:


> I am 6'-3" and riding a large. I've always ridden around a 20" frame, but never a 21". It fits me very well. I maybe could go with a 10mm shorter stem, but it is perfectly comfortable. 28-1/2" from seat clamp to h-bar clamp. My XC 29er is 28, but bars are lower with less bar sweep.
> 
> -F


Between you and Fripps I guess this could work. Thanks for chiming in.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

siv said:


> Having trouble going tubeless yet with the stock rims. What are you guys using to fill the gap between the inside of the rim and the tire? Thinking of just getting some Mulefuts and using the Novatech hubs to keep the price down if I can't get this to work


2 wraps of sill foam under a split tube, 4 oz sealant. I can air it up with a floor pump with this method on snowshoes, v-8's, buds and lous.


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

Question for the riders with Bluto forks, are the Motobacon Bullets coming with RL or RCT3 Bluto?


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Mine is Bluto RL and I guess that's always the standard model that comes with the Motobecane Night Train and Sturgis Bullet BD purchase.

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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

I'm not buying Bikes Direct's published geo numbers on these bikes, since they list the same geometry for a 120mm Bluto and the rigid fork. Even factoring 25% sag on the Bluto, there is still a 20mm difference in A-C length, which changes the HTA, STA, stand over, and wheelbase. Can someone do me a huge favor and measure the wheelbase on a size Large or XL Bullet (axle center to axle center, keeping the front tire straight/centered)? A measurement from the front axle center to bottom bracket center would be fine too, since the chain stay length is a given at 460mm.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

OhioPT said:


> I'm not buying Bikes Direct's published geo numbers on these bikes, since they list the same geometry for a 120mm Bluto and the rigid fork. Even factoring 25% sag on the Bluto, there is still a 20mm difference in A-C length, which changes the HTA, STA, stand over, and wheelbase. Can someone do me a huge favor and measure the wheelbase on a size Large or XL Bullet (axle center to axle center, keeping the front tire straight/centered)? A measurement from the front axle center to bottom bracket center would be fine too, since the chain stay length is a given at 460mm.


You're right, though the change to something like stand over is minimal. Most people agree that a 100mm fork would be much better. The handling is too slack and wanders quite a bit. 
This is apparently not too hard to change, but I haven't done it yet


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Yeah, I've read several complaints in this thread about the front end feeling too high. At 6'2.5" I'm really on the fence between large and XL. Between the longer fork and the 150mm headtube, I'm worried the stack will be too high though. If the front center of the large is long enough, than that's probably what I'll buy. I like a FC of around 700-715mm, so I don't get any over-the-bar sensation when bombing downhills. Its really irritating that BD doesn't publish complete (reach and stack) and accurate geometry figures. Its pretty important imo when you are spending $1-2k on a bike, especially when test fitting is impossible since there is no retail store or demos.


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## glebas (Aug 25, 2012)

I'm looking to purchase the NT $1799 model and transfer components to a Salsa Bucksaw carbon frame and then eventually get carbon wheels. The NT gets me out on a fat bike and then the Salsa updates me without have to drop $6k in one shot. I know rear hubs are different sizes and there will probably be other issues. Any one see any major holes in my plan?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

glebas said:


> I'm looking to purchase the NT $1799 model and transfer components to a Salsa Bucksaw carbon frame and then eventually get carbon wheels. The NT gets me out on a fat bike and then the Salsa updates me without have to drop $6k in one shot. I know rear hubs are different sizes and there will probably be other issues. Any one see any major holes in my plan?


Yeah. Get the complete bucksaw from the start. I bought the first run NT. After carbon wheels, all new 11 speed drivetrain and new carbon frame, Im over $3500 on my build. The only thing I have remaining from the original NT are the cranks and bluto, and I am thinking about changing the crank soon. Even after all of that, I am eyeing a Trek Farley 9.8. Do yourself a favor and get the complete bucksaw from the start.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

OhioPT said:


> Yeah, I've read several complaints in this thread about the front end feeling too high. At 6'2.5" I'm really on the fence between large and XL. Between the longer fork and the 150mm headtube, I'm worried the stack will be too high though. If the front center of the large is long enough, than that's probably what I'll buy. I like a FC of around 700-715mm, so I don't get any over-the-bar sensation when bombing downhills. Its really irritating that BD doesn't publish complete (reach and stack) and accurate geometry figures. Its pretty important imo when you are spending $1-2k on a bike, especially when test fitting is impossible since there is no retail store or demos.


I'm also 6'2.5" and got the XL Sturgis Bullet. The bike feels perfect for me except for the stand over height. The problem is all the 19" frames I've tried have felt too small and cramped. I'd love to find a 20" frame but those don't seem prevalent anymore. But like I said, besides stand over it really feels ideal. I just try to put my foot out a little further to put the bike at a slant which is sometimes easier said than done, when at a stop.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Negotiator50 said:


> Yeah. Get the complete bucksaw from the start. I bought the first run NT. After carbon wheels, all new 11 speed drivetrain and new carbon frame, Im over $3500 on my build. The only thing I have remaining from the original NT are the cranks and bluto, and I am thinking about changing the crank soon. Even after all of that, I am eyeing a Trek Farley 9.8. Do yourself a favor and get the complete bucksaw from the start.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


You spent an extra $2k and didn't change that crank set?!?! Do yourself a favor and at least put on a race face ride, makes the q factor manageable.

I agree with negotiator though... Depending. The bike is slack with a bluto and hasa long chain stay. I think it is best to use it as a rigid fit snow/sand.
If you want an XC /dirtmachine then just wait on the complete bucksaw.

FYI, I'm about $2700 into it, I think.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

OhioPT said:


> Yeah, I've read several complaints in this thread about the front end feeling too high. At 6'2.5" I'm really on the fence between large and XL. Between the longer fork and the 150mm headtube, I'm worried the stack will be too high though. If the front center of the large is long enough, than that's probably what I'll buy. I like a FC of around 700-715mm, so I don't get any over-the-bar sensation when bombing downhills. Its really irritating that BD doesn't publish complete (reach and stack) and accurate geometry figures. Its pretty important imo when you are spending $1-2k on a bike, especially when test fitting is impossible since there is no retail store or demos.


I have pretty average proportions at 6'-3", 34" pants. For me, the standover is just enough. There is 25mm of headset spacers - I have 10mm under the stem. My seatpost is jacked up pretty far, but there is some left. When I got the bike the fork was malfunctioning and it was running around 100mm. When I had it fixed and it was back to 120mm it did feel a little slow-steering, but it didn't take long to get used to it - like about 1 full day of riding. The group even said that they could see my handling improve as I rode with them on some fast trails with an assortment of rock and logs (2-Mile Run county park in PA if you're familiar). I am liking the 120mm Bluto, and I think I'd be too stretched out on an XL frame.
I have a video posted of me riding it in a rocky creek bed. You can see how I have it set up and how much clearance I have.

-F


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

I like the 120mm Bluto and have zero issues with it when it comes to climbing. In fact, I don't like how the bike behaves with the Bluto at 100 mm. I was adjusting shock pressure mid ride last week when my pump gave it up, and I lost a minor amount of pressure, effectively setting the Bluto at 20% sag for the 100mm travel setting. Since I was climbing for while anyway, I locked it out to see if I'd like that general fork height better. Nope - all it did was make the longish chainstays that everyone complains about seem like they were a yard long, and getting the front wheel up and over steps and roots was a total pain. I actually think the 120mm Bluto and the corresponding slacker head tube angle, paired with a short stem, livens up this bike and mitigates for the longish rear end - a rear end that lets you run tubeless Lou's by the way - these still get ridden in snow, right?


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

Fleas said:


> I have a video posted of me riding it in a rocky creek bed.
> -F


Great video! Especially like the beginning portion. What tires are you running? PSI? Looks like a maintenance nightmare though (for me, i'm lazy)


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Onestep4me said:


> Great video! Especially like the beginning portion. What tires are you running? PSI? Looks like a maintenance nightmare though (for me, i'm lazy)


Thanks.

I had bottom bracket contamination back in ~April so I went through and sealed all the bearings with grease. The water in the video had no apparent effect. I will break it down before the weather freezes, though, and do it again.
Those are the stock Snowshoe tires at ~9-10psi. The traction was pretty good.

Yeah, the still camera shots in the vid were nice, but I grew too impatient to keep setting them up. I just wanted to ride! So helmet cam it was.

-F


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Cool video, thanks for sharing, and for the info!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok after more research and indecisiveness, plus thanks to getting bonus checks at work, looks like Sturgis in orange is going to be ordered in 3 weeks. The wheels, tire clearance, and decent snow tires decided it vs fb5 and Minnesota 2.2.

Main question is has anyone found weak points in the build? I have seen plenty on weak hangers (just get a couple spares when I order) but is there anything else. Want this to make it through a winter without issue and before riding all accessible bearings will be repacked with marine grease etc. And yes I know what im doing have most tools etc(just to save that question).

This isn't a trail bike, will see some trails when they aren't good for my 29er, but mainly just snow riding and "stomping" as they call it here. So mostly off the beaten path, not much for climbing or anything.

Plans will be tires and going tubeless first (probably after Xmas)
New crank so I can go dd 1x
Shimano brakes when these start to annoy me
Sram shifter will be moved up to x7 or x9 at some point or just go Shimano when the sram stuff wears out.

Just making sure bike will hold up to a 275lb Clyde (in bday suit) for just general playing around but not being thrashed.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Ok after more research and indecisiveness, plus thanks to getting bonus checks at work, looks like Sturgis in orange is going to be ordered in 3 weeks. The wheels, tire clearance, and decent snow tires decided it vs fb5 and Minnesota 2.2.
> 
> Main question is has anyone found weak points in the build? I have seen plenty on weak hangers (just get a couple spares when I order) but is there anything else. Want this to make it through a winter without issue and before riding all accessible bearings will be repacked with marine grease etc. And yes I know what im doing have most tools etc(just to save that question).
> 
> ...


I think the derailleur hanger issue has been resolved, the ones spec'd now are the new versions - but backups are essential anyways. As far as the X5 shifter goes, I haven't given it a thought since day one. All my other bikes have X9 or XT shifters, and I really can't tell the difference - kind of surprised actually. Ride it till it breaks, then upgrade. If these are still shipping with the super thick vinyl rim strips, ditch then right away for something lighter. Other than that, its a pretty solid build out of the box - including the Samox crank. I keep hoping it will fail somehow so I have a reason to tell the wife why I'm dropping several hundred bucks on a new raceface crankset, but it just hasn't been an issue yet. I'm a big guy too, and have been riding this hard since March, you're gonna have a blast. And careful with the "i'm not going to ride this on trails, I've got a 29er", statement, that's proved false more times than not once people have crossed to the fat side.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Yeah, it's a fine bike. I'm short so the cranks had to go... The q was too wide. As mentioned, rim strips are heavy. 
I had my rear hub fail in about 200 miles... But maybe they've beefed up the axles now.
If you're concerned With weight, then the handlebars, seat post, and saddle should go.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not too concerned with weight, but stem,bars and seat will go quickly anyway just for cockpit fit and im picky about my saddles.



Thanks for the heads up on the rim strips, have to dig up options for that.



Ive ridden fat bikes before a bit, on groomed dry trails I wasn't impressed much. Fun but not as fast and sucked for long climbs (as in just wiped me out sooner).



Im 6'1 but more torso, hoping Q isn't too bad, I ride platform pedals so well see.

I know I gotta order a saddle and pedals soonish, hoping saddle is useable to start as gonna take a couple weeks to get funds for that and pedals after I order the bike.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

I ride mine on non tech, knowing full well it's just about the worst bike for the job. 
It is so good on the rocky sections though!


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## CDubz (Mar 25, 2008)

Sturgis Bullet vs Night Train Bullet. So with some of the new upgrades whats the consensus on these two. I have read through a lot of this thread and as I recall frames are identical, from what I can tell:
-slightly nicer cranks on the night train
-better breaks
-better rear mech

anything else I'm missing? Same wheels, both the race faces seem pretty negligible. I have an extra set of SLX brakes laying around that could go on the ride. Other reasons to spring the extra 300 for a night train? 

save the 300 and order some of the 29er wheels, kinda seems like the no brainer to me but I'm easily convinced. Thanks


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

CDubz said:


> Sturgis Bullet vs Night Train Bullet. So with some of the new upgrades whats the consensus on these two. I have read through a lot of this thread and as I recall frames are identical, from what I can tell:
> -slightly nicer cranks on the night train
> -better breaks
> -better rear mech
> ...


I ordered the Sturgis Bullet because I did not see enough of a compelling argument on the spec sheet to go NT. Raceface and Mulefut's are on the SB, and the mechs, I've seen too many people say they can't tell a difference between X5,7,9 etc....(see watermonkey's comments above...)

And I did exactly what you mentioned- I ordered the 29er wheelset and will get a carbon fork for it as well. Rigid fat. Rigid 29er. Sprung fat. Sprung 29er. All in one bike. And I've still got my '09 Stumpy for full squish action. So, all that is missing is a 650b. Until next week, when the next latest greatest comes out.... 650b++ in the rear with a 29er+/- on a reverse Lefty in the front, with drop bars, and pegs. And kegerator.


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## noah83 (Nov 4, 2008)

I'm thinking of getting either the Sturgis or NightTrain also and looking at the specs. Does anyone know if the hubs are different between the two? Description is slightly different on their website. 
I was leaning towards the NT but now rethinking that with idea of getting the Sturgis and a carbon fork for winter.


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## Cold Trigger Finger (Aug 4, 2015)

Has anyone tried the Snowshoe 2XLXL. 26×5.05" tires on a Sturgis. ??


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

As much as ive read, there isn't a single commercially available frame that will fit the tire, its not the width near as much as the diameter. I too am curious if itll fit the front though.


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## glebas (Aug 25, 2012)

*hilltop*



trailwerks said:


> Cool to see another fat biker so close. This is my first one and took out for a little shake down ride at hilltop near caldwell.


Hey I'm over in CG and ride Hilltop all the time. It's rare to see a fatbike! Just placed an order for NT. How's the ride in Hilltop? Can't wait to try it out.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

Cold Trigger Finger said:


> Has anyone tried the Snowshoe 2XLXL. 26×5.05" tires on a Sturgis. ??


i too was wondering how tight this tire would be on the back.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

I purchased the Sturgis frameset and wheelset only. The rest of the components I picked my self to match the orange color scheme of my Fatty. I'm also running a 1x10 set-up with RF 30T NW chainring on Sram X5 crank. Removed the 17T on my Sram cassette and added a lowly 42T MTS expanded cog.

So far so good but if additional budget will be available - i want to go lighter and i'll upgrade the weinmann hl 80 rims (1000g each) to dt swiss br710 (670g each) and the snowhoe 4.7 72tpi tires (1350g) to schwalbe jumbo jim 4.0 snakeskin 127tpi (1100g).









Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Also, I can't seem to fit the front fender at the fork arch/bridge as it is rubbing the tires. I ended installing below the fork crown. 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## Cold Trigger Finger (Aug 4, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> As much as ive read, there isn't a single commercially available frame that will fit the tire, its not the width near as much as the diameter. I too am curious if itll
> fit the front though.


 As near as I can find out the only 3 that they fit on are theMoonlander, Ice Cream Truck and the Blackborro . 
Sucks that the Bb doesn't have front fork brazeons for a rack. 
Not that the Surly is inferior. Just not as good in salt water or air. Probably a non issue for most tho. I like to b able to toss a bike in a skiff and not worry about it rusting. 
But, the ICT does seem to b the big boy on the block atp.


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## bobdurden (Apr 24, 2013)

scottspark60 said:


> I purchased the Sturgis frameset and wheelset only. The rest of the components I picked my self to match the orange color scheme of my Fatty. I'm also running a 1x10 set-up with RF 30T NW chainring on Sram X5 crank. Removed the 17T on my Sram cassette and added a lowly 42T MTS expanded cog.
> 
> So far so good but if additional budget will be available - i want to go lighter and i'll upgrade the weinmann hl 80 rims (1000g each) to dt swiss br710 (670g each) and the snowhoe 4.7 72tpi tires (1350g) to schwalbe jumbo jim 4.0 snakeskin 127tpi (1100g).
> 
> ...


Loving the look of that bike! What do you have going on for decals next to your rimstrips? Also, where did you order the orange bluto decals?


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

*29er wheelset question....*

So I have the 2016 Sturgis Bullet on order. I also ordered the 29er wheelset from BD. The front wheel is 150 TA, but the rear wheel is 190 QR. I understand the idea of using spacers to make up for the 190 vs 197, but what about the TA vs QR??? Can I put a TA thru the QR hub? Can I use a QR in a TA frame?

I'm confused on this. Have only had TA in the front ever, not rear, so dis eez new territory for me.

Thanks


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Boo Bear said:


> So I have the 2016 Sturgis Bullet on order. I also ordered the 29er wheelset from BD. The front wheel is 150 TA, but the rear wheel is 190 QR. I understand the idea of using spacers to make up for the 190 vs 197, but what about the TA vs QR??? Can I put a TA thru the QR hub? Can I use a QR in a TA frame?
> 
> I'm confused on this. Have only had TA in the front ever, not rear, so dis eez new territory for me.
> 
> Thanks


You should probably call them back. QR and T/A are different, and not interchangeable. I'm surprised they didn't question your purchase if you ordered them together. Maybe they figured it all out and are sending you a rear T/A hub. The ad mentions both, but says it will fit.

-F


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Fleas said:


> You should probably call them back. QR and T/A are different, and not interchangeable. I'm surprised they didn't question your purchase if you ordered them together. Maybe they figured it all out and are sending you a rear T/A hub. The ad mentions both, but says it will fit.
> 
> -F


If the bike comes with thru axles then you'll just have the spare QR sitting in your parts box. 
They won't send both axles with the spare set (it would be nice if they send it with the hub adapters though).
But you don't need two sets of TAs anyway, so it should be fine


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Thanks. Yeah, I was at work when I asked this...when I got home I took a closer look at the rear hub and see that it is quite, err, cavernous. The QR skewer looks like it was just in the box, but if fo' sho' don't fit that hub. 

Thanks.


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Cold Trigger Finger said:


> As near as I can find out the only 3 that they fit on are theMoonlander, Ice Cream Truck and the Blackborro .
> Sucks that the Bb doesn't have front fork brazeons for a rack.
> Not that the Surly is inferior. Just not as good in salt water or air. Probably a non issue for most tho. I like to b able to toss a bike in a skiff and not worry about it rusting.
> But, the ICT does seem to b the big boy on the block atp.


I'm going to take a closer look on the weekend. I'm optimistic that some knob-trimming will allow enough clearance to run at very low pressure on the rear.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

@bobdurden,

Thanks. The customized orange rim (e13 decals) were locally made here in Manila equivalent to USD15 for the 2 wheels.

The customized bluto decals were purchased from ebay usa for USD9.99. Please see link below.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Rock-Shox-Blu...r-Decal-Kit-Fat-Bike-/361365759391?nav=SEARCH

Cheers!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I would like to build a second set of wheels for my NTB. Are there good hubs available front and rear that don't require the spacers of the stock hubs? If so, can anyone recommend a brand/model that wouldn't be too terribly expensive?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

Had anybody been able to remove the 15mm end caps on the front wheel and get to the bearings on their NTB or Sturgis Bullet? I would like to check the grease in my front bearings but I cannot remove the end caps.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

mtb_fun said:


> Had anybody been able to remove the 15mm end caps on the front wheel and get to the bearings on their NTB or Sturgis Bullet? I would like to check the grease in my front bearings but I cannot remove the end caps.


I just pulled them off. They're meant to stay on tight, do just hook your forefinger around and give it a yank.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

tfinator said:


> I just pulled them off. They're meant to stay on tight, do just hook your forefinger around and give it a yank.


Wow, I have done much more than just yank, to no avail.

I will have to try again.


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## bobdurden (Apr 24, 2013)

Sorry, guys. This thread is just too long to search. Has anybody bought the Carbon fork from BD for their Sturgis/Night Train? 

I've gone back and forth between going with a Bluto build and a weight weenie build. I rode a 29lb fatbike the other day and I'm sold on going light for the type of riding I'm going to be doing. Not to mention it's just too much fun riding effortless manuals and huge wheelies with a 4.5in tire 

Do I need to purchase any new parts along with the fork? Headset? Brake mount? etc? I'm not much of a wrencher so I'd like to get all the parts together before bringing it down to the bike shop.

Thanks!


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

WhiskeyJr said:


> I would like to build a second set of wheels for my NTB. Are there good hubs available front and rear that don't require the spacers of the stock hubs? If so, can anyone recommend a brand/model that wouldn't be too terribly expensive?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


FatBike Hubs


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## Shelterock (Apr 30, 2015)

Anyone order the sturgis or night train Ti version? Any update on shipping?


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

the head set for sturgis bullet is 28.6x44/55.95x39.78mm from their website.

what light weight replacement can i use?


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

@ascarlarkinyar,

It seems that your other bigger components were replaced already with lighter ones as you're looking at the smaller ones now - is it?

My priority for going lightweight would be the replacement of stock vee snowshoe 72 tpi tires and weinmann hl80 rims.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Your not going to save any measurable weight in a headset. Maybe 5 grams, you wont even notice that in your hand and dirt on your shoes will weigh more. If you were looking for an upgrade for other reasons itd make sense, but that not a place to try and save weight being the loads put on those bearings during riding. Just my 2cents. Spend the money where its useful. though hard to understand trying to pinch out every gram, not a smart plan for the bank account when a by the time your done you'll have more than a high end fatty in it


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

scottspark60 said:


> @ascarlarkinyar,
> 
> It seems that your other bigger components were replaced already with lighter ones as you're looking at the smaller ones now - is it?
> 
> ...


went through the extra parts bin and replace seatpost, clamp, brakes, cassette, stem, bars, chain, tires, seat, grips, shifters, ti bolts, etc....

the parts I take off will go on the next commuter project.

in my experience the stock parts on these bikes are quite piggy. can't imagie that the headset would be a light weight one.

and yes while not a weight wennie, I want to lose as much as possible, without spending much more. the parts I already have, plus a few others seems reasonable.

I will be adding weight with clothes, food, drink, tools.....it won't be light, as none of my bikes are when I re-add stuff I like to bring on rides. so starting off with a lighter bike is better for me.

I have settled with the weight of the frame, forks, cranks and wheels as my starting project. going from there.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

The cranks and wheels are both portly and we're on my'to be replaced' list when I purchased there bike. 
The wheels especially, but I got mine when they had the weinman rims


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## GSG2 (Jan 30, 2014)

Preordered a 2016 sturgis bullet. Got an email from BD saying it shipped on sept 30 (?) along with a tracking number.

The UPS tracking number shows that a label was created on the 15th and is waiting for the shipment to arrive at their facility. 

Anyone else receive a shipping update? Feeling anxious, hoping it will ship before the 30th!!


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## CDubz (Mar 25, 2008)

GSG2 said:


> Preordered a 2016 sturgis bullet. Got an email from BD saying it shipped on sept 30 (?) along with a tracking number.
> 
> The UPS tracking number shows that a label was created on the 15th and is waiting for the shipment to arrive at their facility.
> 
> Anyone else receive a shipping update? Feeling anxious, hoping it will ship before the 30th!!


I talked with them today as I got billed incorrectly and from all sounds of it the bikes are in a container waiting to clear custumes but it sounded like the 30th was pretty realistic. I hope it's sooner as well.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

tfinator said:


> The cranks and wheels are both portly and we're on my'to be replaced' list when I purchased there bike.
> The wheels especially, but I got mine when they had the weinman rims


The new 2016 Motobecane Fatbikes with MuleFut Wheelsets will be quite a bit lighter as the HL80 Single wall Drilled rims are reported by other mtbr folks to weigh around 1000g. The Mulefut rims have a mfg stated weight of 830g each. So that's nearly 400g lighter already.

Most people commonly post losing up to 1.5 lbs of rotating weight when converting to tubeless. YMMV 

The second best place in terms of $/g to lose weight besides lighter tires is the crankset, if you get a Next SL, you'll lose at least 1 pound.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Joe- Any insight as to when the bikes that have been pre-ordered will be shipped out?


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

*Motobecane Titanium FatBikes Due Any Day Now*



Boo Bear said:


> Joe- Any insight as to when the bikes that have been pre-ordered will be shipped out?


Hi - the Motobecane Titanium Fatbikes have been on the water and on schedule AFAIK. 
Only thing that can hold them up longer is customs or another (knock wood) dock strike... (cross fingers) So those should be unloading soon. Save Up To 60% Off Fat Bikes and Fat Mountain Bicycles from bikesdirect.com
The rest of the Sturgis Bullet and Night Train Bullet Rockshox Bluto equipped Motobecane fatbikes are also on schedule AFAIK. 
The other concern is the carrier's rate hikes in last Qtr of 2015 will cause prices to go up for everyone shipping large boxes like fatbikes.

PS - we've got new updated pics of the actual Titanium fatbikes up now-


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## humptybump (Sep 17, 2015)

joebikesdirect said:


> Hi - the Motobecane Titanium Fatbikes have been on the water and on schedule AFAIK.
> Only thing that can hold them up longer is customs or another (knock wood) dock strike... (cross fingers) So those should be unloading soon. Save Up To 60% Off Fat Bikes and Fat Mountain Bicycles from bikesdirect.com
> The rest of the Sturgis Bullet and Night Train Bullet Rockshox Bluto equipped Motobecane fatbikes are also on schedule AFAIK.
> ...-


Joe, what about the non-bluto Night Train and Sturgis? Also on schedule AFAYK?


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Me upon receiving notice that my Sturgis Bullet is in warehouse and should ship shortly:


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## CDubz (Mar 25, 2008)

Boo Bear said:


> Me upon receiving notice that my Sturgis Bullet is in warehouse and should ship shortly:


Nice, excited for mine to show up as well. Have all the extra parts to swap out sitting on my work bench ready to go on when it comes in.


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## Mancomb (Sep 27, 2015)

I've been a lurker on MTBR for years, but I finally registered because I am just so excited for my Sturgis Bullet to ship.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Somewhere wayyyyy back in this thread I chastised someone for posting and posting about the shipment, notifications, delays, etc. of their NTB. Then I ordered mine...
I did the SAME thing! :blush:

Be excited! It's worth the wait.

-F


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Worth the wait I promise you.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

should I pull the trigger and order a Motobecane Sturgis.... Love the GBM but I want better hubs and wheels. I figure with the deore 9spd upgrade I can get around $525 for the gbm on CL and I would sell my 1999 gt Avalanche and get about $275 for that and sell some of my hobby grade RC cars


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## Mancomb (Sep 27, 2015)

Do it, all the cool kids are. I ordered one, now I just need to sell my Vanagon Syncro to pay for it.


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## bobdurden (Apr 24, 2013)

Hey, guys. I'm converting to 1x and was wondering if anybody has taken the plunge and cut that ugly front derailleur mount off the frame. That thing just looks so out of place without anything attached to it. Going too far?


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Slap a zingwangdowng carbon cantilever chain gard on it. 

Gore Tex


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Word from BD this afternoon, Night Train Bullets (didn't find out about other Sturgis/Night Train alu models) are in the warehouse, should show movement on tracking numbers tomorrow.


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## Seanjax (Sep 8, 2015)

Sweet! Do you know what city they are shipping from? (I ordered mine from the store in Jacksonville so I don't have a tracking number I can check myself)


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Tracking number is showing movement, first ping on tracking from Houston, Texas. Friday ETA to Colorado.


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## CDubz (Mar 25, 2008)

watermonkey said:


> Tracking number is showing movement, first ping on tracking from Houston, Texas. Friday ETA to Colorado.


Hope the Sturgis is shipping too, could be on it by this weekend. Might have to do a new fat bike Colorado group ride.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

My sturgis has a delivery date of 10-5


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## humptybump (Sep 17, 2015)

For those waiting for non-bluto, my non-bluto Night Train also started moving yesterday evening; from Houston. So check your tracking numbers. Excited! Although for me this will be a snow-only bike and I'm not expecting to see snow for at least another month.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

humptybump said:


> For those waiting for non-bluto, my non-bluto Night Train also started moving yesterday evening; from Houston. So check your tracking numbers. Excited! Although for me this will be a snow-only bike and I'm not expecting to see snow for at least another month.


It won't matter. You'll ride it anyway.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

Well I did it and ordered a Sturgis (non-bluto) anyone know if these are in yet. I ordered the non-bluto model, for simplicity and thus far I have found that I really have not needed a suspension on this type of bike... Of course I have not tried a suspension equipped fat bike yet...

I ordered the orange 15.5" Sturgis. I will be selling my 16" Gravity Bullseye Monster once it arrives. The Monster has been a great bike, especially for the $$$ it was a great way to try out fat biking without a huge investment.


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## 2002 Sport (Feb 13, 2015)

Anybody interested in trading their small to my medium Sturgis in yellow? I'm in Northern California, Sacramento area.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

2002 Sport said:


> Anybody interested in trading their small to my medium Sturgis in yellow? I'm in Northern California, Sacramento area.


I had the same issue. Bought a Medium and really needed a Small. Nobody bit on the trade offer, so I ended up buying a frame/fork combo off BikesDirect.com. Sold the Bluto for $450, then sold the frame for $250 and got all my money back.

Your luck may vary, but shipping a frame will cost $50 to make a trade. Even if you sold the frame for $200, you are still in good shape. If you lose some money on the sales, it is better than riding the wrong sized bike around. Liked my bike as a medium, love it as a small.

Save up to 60% off new Rockshox Bluto Equipped Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Bullet frames

Tom


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

my regular sturgis has shipped...


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## mousehunter (Sep 22, 2015)

I bounced around size for a couple days before I pressed the pay now button. Waiting to see if I bet poorly or not. I am 5'10", but my old rigid bike was a 15" frame, and my wife's front suspension bike was 14" and it feels larger to me than mine. I think the smalls standover will probably be taller than either of them - so I bet small, and the few post of people buying too large has made me feel a bit more relaxed.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

I made the same mistake twice when transitioning from my 26" 1998 Stumpjumper to current models. My 1998 was a medium (I am about 5' 9") so I bought a 2010 Stumpjumper 29er in Medium online used. It worked for me, but the "fellas" were right on the top bar. It was the smallest 29er of that model year, so I figured I was sunk. Then bought the 17" Moto and had the same issue. At the same time, I bought a 13" Fantom 29 Pro Moto (silver bike early in this thread) and it almost fit me perfect, just a little small. That is how I figured I went a size down in a fat bike and a 29er with more suspension travel and taller wheels to get the right stand over height for my stubby legs (I am more torso than legs). Your mileage may vary.

Tom


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## CDubz (Mar 25, 2008)

Man in brown just made today an n+1 day


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Night Train Bullet on the ground. Apparently these are coming with the 100mm Bluto? I was expecting 120mm, like my Sturgis Bullet. When did this change? Anyone have a copy of the spec sheet as posted? Current posting for the Night Train Bullet does not specify any size for Bluto, but I swear I remember it being 120 for these bikes, 100mm for the Ti bikes.









Here she is.









Edit - found the spec sheet I copied on the day I purchased the bike online. It does not specify any size of Bluto travel. I assumed it would be 120 mm, as all the prior Sturgis/Night Train/Bullet versions came with 120mm Bluto's, and my Sturgis Bullet I received in April had 120. I guess I'll get to check out the 100mm.


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## CDubz (Mar 25, 2008)

Here is mine. Going to swap out tires and maybe go tubeless, and a few other bits. Really happy with the frame and packaging. I was blown away how heavy the stock saddle and post were. Cheap place to shed weight there.










I'll post final pictures when done.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

mousehunter said:


> I bounced around size for a couple days before I pressed the pay now button. Waiting to see if I bet poorly or not. I am 5'10", but my old rigid bike was a 15" frame, and my wife's front suspension bike was 14" and it feels larger to me than mine. I think the smalls standover will probably be taller than either of them - so I bet small, and the few post of people buying too large has made me feel a bit more relaxed.


I'm 5'10" with 30" inseam, average torso for my size and went with a Medium, PERFECT fit. I wouldn't recommending going to a small.

It is for sale to for anyone interested. Have to sell unfortunately.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

watermonkey said:


> Night Train Bullet on the ground. Apparently these are coming with the 100mm Bluto? I was expecting 120mm, like my Sturgis Bullet. When did this change? Anyone have a copy of the spec sheet as posted? Current posting for the Night Train Bullet does not specify any size for Bluto, but I swear I remember it being 120 for these bikes, 100mm for the Ti bikes.
> 
> View attachment 1019600
> 
> ...


100 is better. I swapped my 120 for a 100 and it made it easier to control.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## GSG2 (Jan 30, 2014)

According to BD via facebook 99% have shipped ... Lucky me I must be in the 1%. Tracking number has not moved. Looking at a label that has been ready for weeks.:madmax:

Anyone have any advice on how to get in touch with customer service?


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

CDubz said:


> Here is mine. Going to swap out tires and maybe go tubeless, and a few other bits. Really happy with the frame and packaging. I was blown away how heavy the stock saddle and post were. Cheap place to shed weight there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that red looks lighter than what was shown on BD site. Is it really that color?


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## CDubz (Mar 25, 2008)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> that red looks lighter than what was shown on BD site. Is it really that color?


It's probably a little darker than it looks in that picture, it had the morning sun reflect8ng off it. I think it looks great. My wife thought the paint was awesome, and my neighbor who may have more bikes than I do, was blown away with the paint job. If you got the red I think you'll be pleased.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

CDubz said:


> It's probably a little darker than it looks in that picture, it had the morning sun reflect8ng off it. I think it looks great. My wife thought the paint was awesome, and my neighbor who may have more bikes than I do, was blown away with the paint job. If you got the red I think you'll be pleased.


I ordered white cause the Grey and red looked too dark and not bright enough for my taste. Although the metal flake did interstate me some. Great looking paint from what I have seen.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Hmm. I'll be curious to see if my Sturgis Bullet shows up with a 100 or 120 Bluto. Actually kind of hoping for the 100 from what I've read. 

CDubz- what Bluto was on yours? (I also ordered the red SB- gets here Monday. Can't wait.)


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## CDubz (Mar 25, 2008)

Boo Bear said:


> Hmm. I'll be curious to see if my Sturgis Bullet shows up with a 100 or 120 Bluto. Actually kind of hoping for the 100 from what I've read.
> 
> CDubz- what Bluto was on yours? (I also ordered the red SB- gets here Monday. Can't wait.)


I got a 100mm. I bought a set of flat bars to try and help move some of my weight forward with the 120. I'll move the risers up a bit and see how they feel. Still haven't finished swapping everything over, life of having a newborn and a toddler. I get 20 minute chunks to work on it.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I have a 2.5 year old and one that turns 1 next month. I don't even get 20 minute chunks right now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

CDubz said:


> I got a 100mm. I bought a set of flat bars to try and help move some of my weight forward with the 120. I'll move the risers up a bit and see how they feel. Still haven't finished swapping everything over, life of having a newborn and a toddler. I get 20 minute chunks to work on it.


This is good news. The 100mm, not the 20 minutes.

Thanks. :thumbsup:


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Shakedown ride report. While the 100 mm Bluto might be marginally better when it comes to climbing, it is a distinct disadvantage when headed downhill. Color me unimpressed - i'd really like that extra 20 mm back. That being said, the Ride RS's are pretty nice, and the beadlock on the Mulefut is ridiculous. I didn't think the lighter tires and wheels would make that much difference, but it is noticeable, and will be a huge advantage at low snow psi's. FYI - Q factor on the samox cranks and RF tubines is almost exactly the same, give or take a mm - not discernable. I also didn't notice any difference in crank flex, but the turbines sure are pretty, and this bike rides lighter than my sturgis bullet. I've got some minor things to address with BD about condition of the bike on arrival, but the quality of the bike packaging over a year ago is hugely improved. I'm also glad my large didn't show up with a 90mm stem. The WTB speed something saddle is surprising comfortable. No internal dropper routing, but that works fine for my Eten.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

HELP! Can someone with a size large and/or XL Sturgis or Night Train Bullet please measure the front center for me (the distance from BB center to front axle center, with handlebars as straight as possible)? Please mention what size (100 or 120mm) Bluto your bike has. I'm on the fence still about what size I want, and I'll use this measurement to help me finally decide.


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## bobdurden (Apr 24, 2013)

All you guys who have gone 1x on your stugis/night train, did you find any aesthetic way to cover up or make the front derailleur mount not look so ugly? That thing sticks out a mile haha.

Also, I was thinking about trying to route my rear brake line through the frame where the front derailleur cable used to run? Any thoughts?


Thanks!


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

The only thing that you may need is the lower headset race, in case the shop can't pull the original off the Bluto without damaging it.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

You should be able to run a hydraulic brake line internally, but getting it through the frame may require cutting off the compression fitting on the end and installing a new one. That's no big deal if you have the parts handy. Of course, you'll have to fill and bleed the system as well.

On second thought, I'm assuming that you have Avid brakes. Other brands may not be so accommodating.


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## CDubz (Mar 25, 2008)

Built with stock tires, going to try and mount some white on one floaters tubeless today and put on the red rim strips. On initial inspection the mulefut rims really grip that bead, I'm going to have to figure out how to get a iron under there.

Switched out bars, grips, stem, saddle, seat post, and seat collar. Was going to throw on some avid or Shimano brakes I have in the parts bin but the stock breaks don't feel half bad.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

CDubz said:


> On initial inspection the mulefut rims really grip that bead, I'm going to have to figure out how to get a iron under there.


I literally had to stand on the tire to break it from the bead. And, this is first time in a decade or more that I had to use 3-4 tire irons to to get a tire off a rim. My hands are sore today from setting up tubeless, failing at my experimental tape system and putting tubes back in for another ride. Mulefut tape on order. Thinking about drilling out the rim for my shrader tubeless valves. 2 of my 9 park tire levers died in the first attempt at tire removal.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

bobdurden said:


> All you guys who have gone 1x on your stugis/night train, did you find any aesthetic way to cover up or make the front derailleur mount not look so ugly? That thing sticks out a mile haha.
> 
> Also, I was thinking about trying to route my rear brake line through the frame where the front derailleur cable used to run? Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks!


Front Derailleur Mount Cover ? wolftoothcomponents.com


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Looks like that cover world interfere with the chain ring. Also doesn't look too be designed for the weird extend from the seat tube mounts.

I don't notice the thing, so I won't do anything with it.
Plus when I get rid of the bike down the line, there may be buyers that want a 2x to go back on.


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## CDubz (Mar 25, 2008)

watermonkey said:


> I literally had to stand on the tire to break it from the bead. And, this is first time in a decade or more that I had to use 3-4 tire irons to to get a tire off a rim. My hands are sore today from setting up tubeless, failing at my experimental tape system and putting tubes back in for another ride. Mulefut tape on order. Thinking about drilling out the rim for my shrader tubeless valves. 2 of my 9 park tire levers died in the first attempt at tire removal.


Hardest rims I've ever worked with, both getting the tires on and off. Busted two Pedro irons putting the new tires on. That said they seal up incredibly well. Front tire is done, hopefully get the rear finished today.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

CDubz said:


> Hardest rims I've ever worked with, both getting the tires on and off. Busted two Pedro irons putting the new tires on.


 That sounds like a piss-poor rim design without enough of a well in the center to allow the tires to be mounted easily. While removing a tire may require irons, installing one never should if the rim is designed right. That's no reflection on you, as this seems to be a common complaint. I'll cross these off my list of potential rims for a spare set of wheels.


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## CDubz (Mar 25, 2008)

Bnystrom said:


> That sounds like a piss-poor rim design without enough of a well in the center to allow the tires to be mounted easily. While removing a tire may require irons, installing one never should if the rim is designed right. That's no reflection on you, as this seems to be a common complaint. I'll cross these off my list of potential rims for a spare set of wheels.


Yea, going tubeless once mounted was pretty painless. But if I ever get a flat forget fixing it trail side.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

*First impressions*

So my Sturgis Bullet arrived today. I got the large, I'm 6' and have a 33" inseam - if fits me the way I like my mountain bikes to fit- there isn't a ton of standover, but I would feel cramped and not have as much reach as I like on the 17.5.

Very impressed with the packaging job on this bike as well- (just received a Bullseye LTD for my wife a few days ago.) Both bikes didn't have a single scratch or issue.

Weight was 36.3 stock, with Wellgo MG-1 flats on it.

Took it for a quick 30 minute shakedown run on a loop trail near my house that I know extremely well.

This is my first fat bike, and my previous time on fatties amounted to about 10 minutes of trail riding or so. My thoughts:

1) Wow- very different. Biggest difference I noticed was that you don't really need to pick much of a line. The bike rolls over about anything you point it at. In fact at one point on a downhill I figured I'd test just how far I could take this, and pointed the bike at two big rocks I'd never go at on my Stumpjumper. Just rolled over them.

2) I don't like the X5 shifters. I really don't like the position of the forward lever- too far forward for my thumb to get to intuitively/comfortably, and too far back to come at it from the top with my index finger.

3). Stock seat is a piece of crap. No rigidity. Felt it flexing on little bumps in my yard- and I'm not big, 180 lbs. Swapped out an old saddle before hitting the trail.

4) The person who said they wished they had the 120mm of travel and not the 100mm- I think I might be in the same camp as you. Hopefully some tuning will help. Didn't dislike it, but wasn't blown away out of the box.

5) The weight didn't seem too penalizing. It weighs about 8-10 lbs more than my FS Stumpjumper. But it was weird riding a HT again on trails for the first time in 6 years, and flats, for the first time in 16 years.

6) Those 4.5 Snowshoe tires throw sand up at you like it's their job.

7) Love the paint job. Great looking bike.

Overall I'm happy with it- the bike itself seems great. I can't wait for the snow, which is the biggest reason I got it. I think if I really want to ride technical trail to the best of my ability, I'd still grab my 26er Stumpy, but this thing will be a nice diversion and different approach to riding.

I think for $1500 it's a phenomenal bike/deal.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

received my 15.5 sturgis today. size is perfect. glad I went with smaller for standover reasons.

switched out parts with carbon ones. formula oro brakes. was happy with all the weight I was losing, but I think I put it all back on with the bud and lou tires. it's looking like it will be around 28-29lbs when done. still waiting on pedals, grips and saddle.

the snowshoe tires were on Super tight. had to use a lot of soapy water and a few swear words to get them off. bigger tires went on easier but fairly tight. stretching out overnight with tubes. will try tubeless with foam and tape tomorrow.

impressed with bigger tires fitting.


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

Anyone going to try the new snowshoe xxl tires?


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

17.5 rigid Sturgis arrived. 34.3 or 34.6lbs out of the box, depending on my two digital hang scales. No pedals and removed reflecting safety devices. 
Sorry I did not contribute to the UPS drama anxiety updates.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

I received my 15.5 green sturgis today. Things were packed pretty good. There was an issue though where the left crank ended up in the spokes of the front tire and resulted in a bent spoke in the box. Did anyone else's bike come shipped with the crank arm in the spokes? I'll have to send them some pics and see if we can work something out. I also had a paint chip at the front brake caliper mounting location.

All in all I'm liking it. I can't wait to get it out on real trails for a ride. I'm really glad I went with the small. I'm 5'8.5". My book against a wall inseam with no shoes is 31" and I have been told I have a long torso and monkey arms. I have 1-2" standover with shoes on (32" inseam). The standover will be good for snow. Reach feels pretty good. It feels pretty similar in size to my M 2007 Stumpjumper FSR


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> received my 15.5 sturgis today. size is perfect. glad I went with smaller for standover reasons.
> 
> switched out parts with carbon ones. formula oro brakes. was happy with all the weight I was losing, but I think I put it all back on with the bud and lou tires. it's looking like it will be around 28-29lbs when done. still waiting on pedals, grips and saddle.
> 
> ...


Isn't the point of the new rims that you don't need foam?


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## CDubz (Mar 25, 2008)

tfinator said:


> Isn't the point of the new rims that you don't need foam?


You won't need foam with these rims. The on one floaters are definitely heavier, didn't weigh them but certainly heavier. But the beads lock up I had no issues going tubeless. Late night garage session and I'm ready to go. I'll take it out tomorrow for a ride and trail adjustments.










Anyone else have issues with their front little ring? Mine has a few broken teeth.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Cerpss said:


> Did anyone else's bike come shipped with the crank arm in the spokes?


Yes, my crank arm was also through the spokes of the front wheel, but suffered no ill consequence in shipping.


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

CDubz said:


> You won't need foam with these rims. The on one floaters are definitely heavier, didn't weigh them but certainly heavier. But the beads lock up I had no issues going tubeless. Late night garage session and I'm ready to go. I'll take it out tomorrow for a ride and trail adjustments.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah. powering up a rock I sheared off 4 or 5 teeth and got pitched over the bars. Dislocated shoulder. Put on an 64 bcd 26t Absolute Black narrow wide and running 1x10... beautiful!


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

Boo Bear said:


> Yes, my crank arm was also through the spokes of the front wheel, but suffered no ill consequence in shipping.


+1 and I had a paint chip on the fork caliper mount. Coming of a Gravity Bullseye Monster this bike certainly is an upgrade. The front chain rings do appear cheap though, but we will see... I got the 15.5" orange non-bluto and I am 5'9.5 with a 29.5" inseam and the fit is quite good. I put on my 780mm bars and DH stem from the Gravity. I will post a picture later.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Has anyone had the rear hub come loose and damage the pawls? I'm asking because a buddy of mine who has a Night Train with the Navatec rear hub come loose and damaged one of the 4 pawls. This could be a warning to all of us who have the same hub to keep an eye on it. Don't know how it could have come loose but it did.


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## tonyvt (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm considering buying the Sturgis frame and Bluto for $699 and building it up from there. Has anyone had a chance to mount 5" tires on these new frames?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

tonyride1 said:


> Has anyone had the rear hub come loose and damage the pawls? I'm asking because a buddy of mine who has a Night Train with the Navatec rear hub come loose and damaged one of the 4 pawls. This could be a warning to all of us who have the same hub to keep an eye on it. Don't know how it could have come loose but it did.


I did not have trouble with the pawls on my Sturgis Bullet, but my non-drive side bearing retainer kept coming loose.

I DID, however, experience a Novatec hub failure in the past:
http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/novatech-hub-failure-theory-prevention-943374.html

-F


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Boo Bear said:


> ...
> 
> Weight was 36.3 stock, with Wellgo MG-1 flats on it.


My rim strips were super heavy. Saved 250g by replacing them with steel banding. 



Boo Bear said:


> 6) Those 4.5 Snowshoe tires throw sand up at you like it's their job.
> ...


Wait 'til you hit a big puddle at speed.

-F


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

tonyride1 said:


> Has anyone had the rear hub come loose and damage the pawls? I'm asking because a buddy of mine who has a Night Train with the Navatec rear hub come loose and damaged one of the 4 pawls. This could be a warning to all of us who have the same hub to keep an eye on it. Don't know how it could have come loose but it did.


I have had the non-drive side end cap loosen up a few times on my Sturgis Bullet (version 2 - April 2015), which I think did add some play to the freehub "preload" for lack of a better term. I've since added blue medium strength threadlock to the non-drive side end cap, and haven't had an issue since. This reminds me to do the same to the new Night Train, and I'll go back and check the Sturgis too.

EDIT - I think the first gen Sturgis and Night Trains came with Aluminum freehub bodies. I mangled the aluminum on on my Lurch in pretty short order, cassette rings gouged the crap out of the outer body, and the pockets that the pawls rested in were actually deforming under fatbike loads changing the engagement angle. The new bikes should all be shipping with steel. No issues with steel ones yet for me. I've yet to have any contact back from Novatec USA for small parts or service.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

tonyvt said:


> I'm considering buying the Sturgis frame and Bluto for $699 and building it up from there. Has anyone had a chance to mount 5" tires on these new frames?


one page back you can see my new sturgis with a fresh set of bud/lou tires


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## tonyvt (Mar 26, 2010)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> one page back you can see my new sturgis with a fresh set of bud/lou tires


Cool. Your bike looks badass with the bud/lou's mounted up!


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## hicksjerry (Dec 14, 2014)

Can anyone direct me to a bash guard that could be mounted without having to remove the big chainring? I'm hoping to keep my 2x setup because I do a fair amount of commuting on the streets.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

*10 mile shakedown ride*

Ok so I took out my Orange 15.5 sturgis for its first ride, and I am impressed. It is the rigid model, an I can say that it is a significant improvement over the Gravity bullseye monster (it also costs twice as much). Feels way lighter, probably due to less rotating mass, and well it is lighter for sure, probably 6 lbs? I can balance the bike on the rear wheel far easier than any other bike I have ever had and this was my first ride!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

hicksjerry said:


> Can anyone direct me to a bash cguard that could be mounted without having to remove the big chainring? I'm hoping to keep my 2x setup because I do a fair amount of commuting on the streets.


Is riding with chain in the big ring like having a bash guard?

-F


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

hicksjerry said:


> Can anyone direct me to a bash guard that could be mounted without having to remove the big chainring? I'm hoping to keep my 2x setup because I do a fair amount of commuting on the streets.


Try one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Race-Offset-B...qid=1444178780&sr=1-1&keywords=36T+bash+guard

You will need longer fasteners that you should be able to find on amazon also.


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## Mancomb (Sep 27, 2015)

Got home from work at 11:30PM and found my trusty dog Murray guarding the Stugis Bullet. Had a drink and slapped it together for a 1:00AM ride around the neighborhood.


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## humptybump (Sep 17, 2015)

Would anyone mind posting the dimensions of the box these come in? I'm picking mine up this weekend on the way down to Lake Placid, I need to make sure I leave room in the car for the bike as well as my family and hiking gear etc.! Worst case I guess I can leave the family at the curb and come back for them once my N+1 is safely home .


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

How long is the trip back and forth? Leave them at a diner and bring the bike home. 

JK... Tie it to the roof?


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## humptybump (Sep 17, 2015)

NYrr496 said:


> How long is the trip back and forth? Leave them at a diner and bring the bike home.
> 
> JK... Tie it to the roof?


Putting it up on the roof rack is an option, but it's supposed to be raining on Friday so probably not a first choice.  There should be room, possibly I might need to unpack the bike and fold up the box though, depends on just how big the box is (there is a fair bit of space in a Volvo v70).


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

humptybump said:


> Putting it up on the roof rack is an option, but it's supposed to be raining on Friday so probably not a first choice.  There should be room, possibly I might need to unpack the bike and fold up the box though, depends on just how big the box is (there is a fair bit of space in a Volvo v70).


Yeah... Plenty of room.

I drive a Suburban. Nothing I can't carry.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

humptybump said:


> Would anyone mind posting the dimensions of the box these come in? I'm picking mine up this weekend on the way down to Lake Placid, I need to make sure I leave room in the car for the bike as well as my family and hiking gear etc.! Worst case I guess I can leave the family at the curb and come back for them once my N+1 is safely home .


Using the universally accepted volumetric measurement unit of a "dead hooker", and for reference a Ford Taurus's trunk measures 3.2 DHU's (dead hooker units), I estimated this box to have a displacement of 4.1 DHU's. It's a big box.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

watermonkey said:


> Using the universally accepted volumetric measurement unit of a "dead hooker", and for reference a Ford Taurus's trunk measures 3.2 DHU's (dead hooker units), I estimated this box to have a displacement of 4.1 DHU's. It's a big box.


DHU in metric terms please.... In case they are European hookers of course.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

byron555 said:


> DHU in metric terms please.... In case they are European hookers of course.


Actually, they're asian hookers so there's room for more of them in a given trunk.


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## Mancomb (Sep 27, 2015)

The box is 58"x32"x12"


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## humptybump (Sep 17, 2015)

Mancomb said:


> The box is 58"x32"x12"


Arggh. 2" too high. Thanks very much for posting the box dimensions, I'll be prepared for the necessary unboxing.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> Further review after the last ride indicates that my NDS crank bearing has been contaminated. While the "seals" are pretty weak, I'm going to fess up and say that it's probably my own fault that I didn't pack the "seals" with grease to keep water-borne grit from getting in. Riding in the frozen conditions it was of no concern, but in my haste to ride I forgot to get back to it. :madman: My advice is to catch it early. It was literally overnight that the bearing nearly seized up. I'm good at reviving old, abused parts, though, so I got it smoothed out again. :thumbsup:
> View attachment 989464
> 
> BTW - after this ride, I washed the bike - gently - and still poured out about a 1/4 cup of clean water from the NDS chainstay and bottom bracket. So the frame is not sealed very tight. I may have to address that with the clear silicone (which also addresses cable rub if applied neatly).
> ...





Fleas said:


> Snow? Check.
> Mud? Check.
> Sand? Check.
> 
> ...





Fleas said:


> How to wash your bike.
> View attachment 1010861
> 
> Just updating the condition of my bearings. Packing grease all over the bearings - even though they are cartridge bearings they are not necessarily sealed very well - seems to have kept all the water out.
> ...


My Sturgis Bullet was failing the "bounce test**" so I had to investigate.

-> Loose headset.
-> Loose rear axle.
-> Outboard freehub bearing was grinding.
-> Three broken plastic cable clamps on the rear drlr cable.
-> Rear rim roundness tolerance is out. (That is, I can no longer tolerate it).
-> Right pedal was "squeaky".

First let me say that these are all expected maintenance items on any and all of my bikes, EXCEPT for that loose rear axle. Also, if I'd given it more time from the get-go, the wheel roundness would probably still be OK, but that was a job that wore on a little too long after unpacking. The Sturgis has been in some atrocious riding conditions, including sand, mud, snow, deep water, a little salt, and sandy water over the hubs.

The headset and cable clamps were fixed lickety-split. HS is still smooth as butta. It received a healthy, if not excessive, application of grease upon assembly back in Feb. '15.

The bottom bracket was fine since it was also packed with grease back in May.

The loose axle has vexed me since day one. As I got into cleaning and prepping for re-Loc-titing the non-drive side retainer, I noticed that the rear axle was kinda "grindy". An ounce of prevention would fix 'er right up.

I pulled the axle, the cassette, the freehub, pounded the bearings out of it, popped the seals, sprayed clean, re-packed with grease, re-installed, then re-Loc-tited. The ONLY bearing (out of 4 back there) that had any problem was the outboard freehub bearing. Probably due to the amount of gunk that the drivetrain delivers via the chain.

So FYI, keep an eye on that one.

*Again, opening everything up while still new and uncontaminated and filling any external voids with grease will greatly prolong any bearing life by shielding against any water/dirt intrusion. * I'm only at 150 miles on it, but they have been some tough miles for a bicycle (I would not do the same to my XT-equipped Nimble 9 :nono.
I am still really liking the Sturgis. The X5/X7 drivetrain has been performing very well. The Tektro Draco brakes are beyond expectation. Not too excited about the HL80 rims, but they are what they are. Will be going tubeless in a few weeks as I prep for Winter.

-F

PS - I am still jazzed at everyone getting their new bikes! Ride on!

**If you bounce the bike and it sounds like stuff is going to fall off, it fails.


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## dipsheet (Oct 8, 2015)

First post - 

I've been on the fence for that last 2 months on the Night Train Bullet. Actually purchased and then cancelled the order about one month ago based on a lot of comments online (get to that in one second). 

Bottom line is that I am pretty well sold on the Night Train Bullet at this point considering $2k is really that most I want to fork over right now. Wanted a Trek Farley 9 (too much money) or a Farley 7 (not due in stores until January) - liked the Salsa and Fatboy but each had aspects that I ultimately wasn't super pumped about (price point/QR vs. TA/tire size capability).

Here's my question: Is purchasing the NT Bullet from BD a bad idea for someone with only a limited skill set and experience working on their own bike?

I used to work on cars during college. Can easily do my own brakes and tune-ups there but I have limited experience and tools fixing bikes. In the past, I have swapped out posts, bars, tires, tubes, etc., adjusted my rear derailer (not sure I did a very good job) and swapped out brake pads on my current ride with V-brakes. At the end of the day, I'd like to learn how to swap out cranksets, BB's, hubs, forks, etc., and think it would be a fun(ish) hobby, but I don't want to buy something that requires me to spend $200 on tools and a couple days to disassemble and grease/lube so that it is functional.

I get that the bikes come 90% assembled and am OK with putting together and making the minor adjustments. Just wondering what 1) learning curve I am looking at to do my own repairs and 2) what sort of time commitment I should expect.

Thanks - Great looking bikes coming in. Love that silver NT with the Bud/Lou combo. That thing looks like fun and 28 lbs is impressive. 
Thanks again.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

OhioPT said:


> Can someone with a size large and/or XL Sturgis or Night Train Bullet please measure the front center for me (the distance from BB center to front axle center, with handlebars as straight as possible)? Please mention what size (100 or 120mm) Bluto your bike has. I'm on the fence still about what size I want, and I'll use this measurement to help me finally decide.


Anybody? Pretty please?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Large frame - 100mm Bluto. From center of BB to center of front axle = 27 3/4 inches, standover is 31.5 inches. I'll get the same measurement off my large Sturgis with the 120 mm later.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

watermonkey said:


> Large frame - 100mm Bluto. From center of BB to center of front axle = 27 3/4 inches, standover is 31.5 inches. I'll get the same measurement off my large Sturgis with the 120 mm later.


That's very helpful, thank you!


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

day 2 ride review


got this 15.5 sturgis for snow only. changed out most parts to carbon and lightweight from parts bin. left stock wheels, cranks, cassette, chain, rotors. bud/lou tires still toobed(couldn't wait to ride). guessing 30 lbs compared to my other bikes.


I had a pug for 4 years when they first came out and was slowly disillusioned with 4" almost bald tires and very heavy wheels. this bike is much better

rode up a steep, very deep sand and tight switchbacks trail. no problem. very nimble and super traction float with 15 psi. in past this trail was not possible with 26" hardball or rigid single speed 29er. many dabs on a 2.4 tire geared 29er. no surprize. gearing was perfect, weight didn't seem to hold me back.

the rest of the trail is rolling with steep short rocky sections I had to walk due to needing superman trials skills to climb in the past. going down no problem. on this bike I was able to muscle up and clear all the sections. it was tough and took a few times on some parts. 

as the ride went on I lowered psi until I got to 5 psi and that was too low. of course as I went lower self steer appeared as well as more tire resistance. to the point that I could no longer climb the tough rocky sections.
aired back up to 12 psi and the bike felt lighter and much easier to handle. I am 155 lbs and 5' 9" btw.

at speed I had trouble making quick course corrections, but the tires rolled over anything that got in its way.


the feeling of being invincible like on a dh bike is very alive on this bike. reality check when a few of the expected fat bike characteristics show up, but hey no surprise, it's a fat bike.



for anybody on the fence about getting this bike whether stock or upgraded. do it!!!!! you will have a great time as long as you are realistic about the fat bike experience. 

can't wait for the snow.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Sheeeit. Save that Lou for snow and put a 4.8nard on there. Tubeless those tires and that bike will rock even harder.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

dipsheet said:


> First post -
> 
> I've been on the fence for that last 2 months on the Night Train Bullet. Actually purchased and then cancelled the order about one month ago based on a lot of comments online (get to that in one second).
> 
> ...


The bike will be functional right out of the box, but without some real bike knowledge it won't be "race ready".
So if all you want to do is ride, you are good to go. If you want it to really perform, I think you need to give the wheels some attention to make them really true, check all bearings for proper lube and tightness, adjust cable tensions, bolt torques, brake lever positions, seat angle, tire pressure, thru-axles, everything. If you are planning to abuse it, then take it all apart and seal up all the bearings with grease.
Everything on it comes apart with a few allen wrenches, except to remove the freehub and the bottom bracket bearings.

Pulling the crank, the fork, or removing the wheels is very easy. Getting bearings out takes a little more work, as it should.

-F

PS - I had mine at camp this weekend. Several people asked about it and a few took it for a spin - with big smiles! Seeing someone tentatively approach the sand volleyball court, then discovering it is almost the same as riding on grass is priceless.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Hi dipsheet - If you can do all that wrenching on cars, then you will pick up bike wrenching super quick  no worries. There are lots of bike wrenching videos on youtube too 



dipsheet said:


> First post -
> 
> I've been on the fence for that last 2 months on the Night Train Bullet. Actually purchased and then cancelled the order about one month ago based on a lot of comments online (get to that in one second).
> 
> ...


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## dipsheet (Oct 8, 2015)

Thanks for the replies. I may order this week.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

I was up in Door County this weekend and was able to get in 17 miles of trail riding on My new rigid sturgis. Initial riding impressions, The 4.5" tires are better than the 4" tires I had on my old Gravity Bullseye Monster (GBM). The less overall weight and rolling weight make a huge difference on the trail. The bike is better up and down hill. The gearing is perfect (for me), the bike has less self steer and "floats" better on the soft stuff. The bike jumps and wheelies much easier and better. I also find the riding position and seat to be extremely comfortable (780mm bars and DH stem installed).

So am I happy with my purchase? Of course....


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## slowride454 (Jan 11, 2014)

I've been looking through this thread and can't find any weight weenie builds. Has anyone gotten one of these under 25#?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Its a fatbike, and if you can afford to build one of these like that, you have the money for carbon fiber framed weight weenie ones.


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## slowride454 (Jan 11, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> Its a fatbike, and if you can afford to build one of these like that, you have the money for carbon fiber framed weight weenie ones.


I don't have the money for one. That's why I asked. Granted, throwing a $1500 wheelset on a $250 frame may seem silly, but the net result could be a lighter overall bike for less money. I'm looking for value, which is what BD bikes provide.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Fleas said:


> Seeing someone tentatively approach the sand volleyball court, then discovering it is almost the same as riding on grass is priceless.


That would make an awesome video:
Fatbiker and normal rider ride up to a sand pit and both ride across - what happens next?


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

I got into MTB about 3 years ago and last Nov got my Night Train Bullet. If you've already worked on bars, posts, brakes etc, the rest comes easy. I put a new crank on my NTB (raceface turbine) and it is easy. I also took apart the BB and regreased everything and learned more - not THAT easy to screw stuff up actually.

The NTB they are offering this year is amazing. You get the crank I bought already, plus the Mulefuts. This bike is wicked good. I had an amazing time last year on it and all of the components are a real nice package. X9 rear and guide brakes i specifically loved. I also put a bud/lou set on mine in case you were wondering about tires.

I'd definitely plan on a new bar, seat post, grips, pedals and tires. But this is pretty standard and personal choice anyway.

Can't beat the price of these bikes and I had an excellent experience with the company. I actually even bought another bike for my kid.

Enjoy! Its worth the 2K and I bought maybe 25-50 bucks more in tools so far.



dipsheet said:


> First post -
> 
> I've been on the fence for that last 2 months on the Night Train Bullet. Actually purchased and then cancelled the order about one month ago based on a lot of comments online (get to that in one second).
> 
> ...


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

slowride454 said:


> I've been looking through this thread and can't find any weight weenie builds. Has anyone gotten one of these under 25#?


I built one that's just over 27#, but not with a Bluto. Here's the build:

BD carbon fork
Easton EC-70 carbon bars
FSA stem
Carbon wheels from Yishunbike (Asian Cycle Express - "ACE")
Snowshoes (tubeless)
XX brakes
XX twist shifters
X0 rear derailleur
Thomson post 
Ti railed saddle from Performance
Eggbeaters
Generic (heavy) Chinese 1X crank with 30t ring (it was cheap from ACE and good enough for the winter)
SRAM PG-1070 cassette (11-32)
KMC X10SL chain
ESI Chunky grips

I want a wider gearing range without huge gaps between gears, so I have a Turbine Cinch crankset (22x36) on the way and an XO front derailleur waiting to be installed. I was going to get a Next SL, but I can't justify the extra $200+ for it. The 2x setup with the Turbine probably won't weigh much more than the heavy 1x crank.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

slowride454 said:


> I've been looking through this thread and can't find any weight weenie builds. Has anyone gotten one of these under 25#?


Unless you just buy the frame you are gonna replace every part with the lightest possible. Total will be around 4-5k. Not really worth it.

I kept the cranks, wheels, cassette, bluto, chain, rotors and replaced the rest. It's down to about 29-30lbs with a bud-lou tire combo. The whole idea is to keep cost down and use parts I had. I only had to buy new tires.

A Chinese carbon frame is not much more money for a weight wennie build.


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## slowride454 (Jan 11, 2014)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> Unless you just buy the frame you are gonna replace every part with the lightest possible. Total will be around 4-5k. Not really worth it.
> 
> I kept the cranks, wheels, cassette, bluto, chain, rotors and replaced the rest. It's down to about 29-30lbs with a bud-lou tire combo. The whole idea is to keep cost down and use parts I had. I only had to buy new tires.
> 
> A Chinese carbon frame is not much more money for a weight wennie build.


I was looking at the frame through Bike Island for $250. Fork for $250. Wheelset will be around $1000-$1500. I have bars and seatpost. I have a Ti railed Spec Henge saddle. I have a set of 1330g ea Bulldozer tires for now. Just need to piece together brakes and drivetrain for about $500. I was looking to spend about $2500 which is the cost of a new X7 Beargrease, Trek Farley 7 or Framed X7 Carbon Alaskan, but all of them come with crappy wheels just like a stock Sturgis does. Mulefuts and cheap hubs.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

slowride454 said:


> I've been looking through this thread and can't find any weight weenie builds. Has anyone gotten one of these under 25#?


No. I have carbon bars, wheels, seat post, rims, FBN tires. Different saddle of course and 1x10 with a race face ride crank.
I'm at about 27.5. Under 25 will come at large monetary costs as well as compromise for trail worthiness.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Just throwin' this out there... I'll be building one of these as funds allow. 
I'm going to pick up a BD frame and Bluto, use the Bluto on my other bike. Put a Salsa fork I have laying around on the BD bike and use Bike Hub Store hubs on Other Brother Darryl rims. 1x10 drivetrain, tubeless BFL... Should be a nice, light bike for my wife or friends to ride on the beach.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

posting this in the Sturg/nighttrain, since that is the bike it's happening on.. ok folks some thoughts. BTW.. have had the strug bullet since last December. Love it... but...

here is the issue. I had a set of velocity duallys built up with190 origin 8 hub rear. BD was kind enough to send me a set of their spacers that they include when you buy the skinny rims from them..... so chain and rotor all lines up now.. but a few times during my ride my thru axle springs loose from it's locked position... using the same thur axle on the standard set that came with the Sturg.. Novatec although it's a true 197.... any thoughts on why, or if there is a work around. being a thru axle, it's not like a total failure, but would rather have the peace of mind not to have to keep checking on it.

just tossed a Bud/Lou on the original rims, this past week, ready for the snow and Fall exploring conditions...

for those lurking ,... thinking about snagging a new Sturg or Nighttrain... I would not hesitate for a second, better rims, better crankset..... for the price you can't go wrong...


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

That's weird. I hate the TA for this bike... The quick release aspect of it seems so unnecessary!
This being said I don't have a solution for you...


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

twright205 said:


> ..... but a few times during my ride my thru axle springs loose from it's locked position... using the same thur axle on the standard set that came with the Sturg.. Novatec although it's a true 197.... any thoughts on why, or if there is a work around. being a thru axle, it's not like a total failure, but would rather have the peace of mind not to have to keep checking on it.
> ...


Isn't there a tension screw on that rear T/A? I think you can adjust it to where you tighten the axle, then rotate the lever to the correct position, then throw it over and lock it down. I think the the tension screw determines how tight the lever is when you lock it down. There is a procedure in the assembly instructions IIRC.

-F


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## Urban0x (Jul 3, 2015)

Wish they would let me know when the 2016 night train bullet in medium will be in stock ...


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## Urban0x (Jul 3, 2015)

You guys think I should just order the sturgis bullet? No clue when the NTB will be available !!


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## CDubz (Mar 25, 2008)

Urban0x said:


> You guys think I should just order the sturgis bullet? No clue when the NTB will be available !!


I didn't see the value in going for the night Train and got the Sturgis. It's been awesome. Do it!


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

OhioPT said:


> That's very helpful, thank you!


Large Frame - 120mm Bluto, Center of BB to center of front Axle = 28 3/8 inches. Didn't get a standover this time.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

watermonkey said:


> Large Frame - 120mm Bluto, Center of BB to center of front Axle = 28 3/8 inches. Didn't get a standover this time.


Thanks again! I just placed a pre order this morning for a large/19" Sturgis Bullet, and this confirms my decision that the large is plenty long for me.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Has anyone straightened their new hanger?
Mine broke on the first bend.
Had to revert back to the original black one.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Mine started to crack when I used a Park derailleur alignment gauge on it, which leaves me less than impressed. They're apparently a really brittle casting, which exactly what you DON'T want in a derailleur hanger. So far, it's working fine, but one good hit and I'm sure it'll be toast. I screwed the original hanger to one of the rack mounts, so I have it handy when the inevitable happens. 

Is anyone making a machined hanger for these frames? Derailleurhanger.com doesn't have anything.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

tfinator said:


> Has anyone straightened their new hanger?
> Mine broke on the first bend.
> Had to revert back to the original black one.


Amazingly, even with several branches and junk going directly into the cage of my rear drlr - to where I had to stop pedaling, get off, and untangle - the orig. hanger has barely bent at all. I mean, it over-shifted my low gear, but the indexing was not off - so, a very small bend. I did not try to straighten it. Just using as-is.

-F


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

Just did 25 miles on my new 2016 sturgis rigid. 7 miles of very rocky technical mtb trails and the rest in the city... For those in Wisconsin Blue Mounds state park and Madison... while in the city I hit three bars etc.... had so much fun on my day off. I am home now sucking back a ale asylum hopalicious .... Great fall riding day! And my pedals took quite a bashing at the state park. The sturgis is hands down my favorite bike I have ever owned.... No question!


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## noah83 (Nov 4, 2008)

I need some help/info with sizing. I can't decide between 17.5 and 19. I'm 5' 10" with a 33" inseam and ride a L 5010 with a 70mm stem, fits about right, pretty upright position. I played around with a geometry calculator to figure out stack and height. With a Bluto, seems like the reach on the 17.5 is pretty short and stack on both is much more than the 5010. Has anyone measured these? I'm leaning towards the 19 and just run a shorter stem and flat bar. Don't think I should be too worried about the higher standover.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Breaking a bead. Try it at home beforehand on the foot of mule.


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## CDubz (Mar 25, 2008)

noah83 said:


> I need some help/info with sizing. I can't decide between 17.5 and 19. I'm 5' 10" with a 33" inseam and ride a L 5010 with a 70mm stem, fits about right, pretty upright position. I played around with a geometry calculator to figure out stack and height. With a Bluto, seems like the reach on the 17.5 is pretty short and stack on both is much more than the 5010. Has anyone measured these? I'm leaning towards the 19 and just run a shorter stem and flat bar. Don't think I should be too worried about the higher standover.


I have your same dimensions, also have ridden a large Santa Cruz and ended up with the large and ran a 50mm stem and flat bars and the cockpit is perfect. Stand over is a little tight but rest of the fit is spot on. Go back a few pages and you can see my build set up like this.


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## noah83 (Nov 4, 2008)

Thanks CDubz, that really helps confirm what I was thinking. But I've never ridden a stem that short and the ETT difference is only about 20mm. Did you have to go that short for a good fit? Does the front end feel weighted enough on climbs? I've analyzing this way too much. Anyone in the SLC area have one I could try out?


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## Urban0x (Jul 3, 2015)

NTB ordered :thumbsup:


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## DGOJosh (Sep 11, 2009)

*Neon Yellow NTB Frame Build*





















I picked up a Motobecane NTB frame and fork a couple of weeks ago and just finished putting it all together this week. When I pulled my frame out of the box I found that the clear coat was scuffed up and was white and flaky in a few spots. I decided to strip it and powder coat it before I built it up. (I know I voided the warranty)

My hanger was bent like many others. I ordered 2 more. That and the crappy rear thru-axle are the only things I don't really like about the bike.

While I was waiting for it to come back from powder coating I got anxious/excited and made a head tube badge for it.

$100 for it to be powder coated and it is way more durable than the paint that was on it. It looks great. They did a good job. It was a pain in the arse to get the paint off and took a bit of time.

I'm right around $2300 into it and am pretty happy with how it turned out.

120 mm Bluto
FSA Headset
Race Face Turbine 725mm width handlebars
Race Face Atlas 50mm stem
Giant Vans Lock On Grips

KS Eten Lever Dropper Seat Post
Promax DP-1 Seat Post Clamp

42 Tooth Wolf Tooth Gog
Sram GX Fat 1400 GXP X-Sync Crankset
Sram PG-1070 10 Speed Cassette 11-36
Sram GXP 100 mm BB
Sram GX trigger Shifter
Sram GX 10 Speed long cage rear deralleur

Shimano SLX Brake System F-180/R-160 (internally routed cables)

Maxxis Mammoth 4" set up ghetto tubles on 24" split tubes 
80mm Framed Surly Rolling Daryl with cut outs, laced up to DT Swiss F-150/R-197 hubs w/surly rim strips.

It's a large and weighs about 34 lbs (according to the bathroom scale) It rides lighter than my last Boris fatbike.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

Whoa, went out last night and then mtn biking today.... Yeah that cigarette I had, well I felt it today on the trail. I guess at 38 I am not in my 20's anymore. Still I enjoyed it, going out and riding. The Sturgis has been great, the fall colors at Devil's Lake State park (WI) were great, my riding performance was lack-luster today.... Oh well 2-3 ain't bad.... all 12 wheezy miles


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

been having soo much fun riding my sturgis on the dirt I am afraid I will wear down the tires before the snow hits...lol


that being said I am becoming disalloutioned with some things. the mulefut are not really tubeless like advertised. at least not for me.

after taping the rims with gorilla, I had to foam the center rim well, apply a thin tape to hold it there, because the tires would sit in there and not inflate past them. yes I stretched them out with tubes first. I then broke one bead, removed the tube and had a hard time getting the loose side to get up on the bead. yes I used plenty of soapy water.

after plenty of curse words I got the bead to set. but then I would loose air right away. seems like the rim joints are not air tight. stans could not seal it after 5 days of repeated airing up.

regretfully I pulled the tire off and there is a tiny strip of bare rim that the gorilla tape between where the tire sits is the culprit.

I then taped past that and set the tire on top of the tape. disaster, the tire popped off the bead at 15 psi.

ripped all the tape off and considering options. most of which will be as heavy or more than tubes.

the selling point for me was the tubeless rims. now that I can't do it without weight penalty I might have to get a different wheelset, going way past my budget and I should have gone with another bike option.

I contacted bikesdirect, they ignored my first 2 emails, then after the third sent a link on how to tape the rim exactly the way I explained I did. resent another email that didn't help. so far no reply back.


the second problem is that wanted to run mechanical brakes in winter, but they will not fit. bummer. guess I gotta ruin a hydraulic pair every winter?


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

Mechanical brakes will work, you just need a different adapter. I ran bb7s on my sturgis for a while


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

drmayer said:


> Mechanical brakes will work, you just need a different adapter. I ran bb7s on my sturgis for a while


Can you take a pic or give us a link to the adapter you used? Thx


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> ...
> 
> the second problem is that wanted to run mechanical brakes in winter, but they will not fit. bummer. guess I gotta ruin a hydraulic pair every winter?


In that pic, it looks like the cable clamp bolt is the interference point. Except that the arm is way out of position. When you squeeze the brake lever, the arm should be perpendicular to the cable pull. Right now, it's pointing at about 11 o'clock, but it should be pointing at maybe 9 o'clock.

-F


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Ascarlarkinyar, I'm not sure you can be to angry with BD regarding the rims.
These rims seem to be temperamental, for owners of all kinds of bikes. 
On previous tubeless conversions. I've gotten frustrated and given up for a few days. Then I go back and try again with a different method. It might give you some clarity to try something new or different.
Sorry they aren't setting up easily though.
If there is an actual physical defect of the rim then maybe a warranty claim is in order?


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

Ascarlarkinyar, sorry to hear your troubles. I can only share in some of your frustration, but since going to split tube method all has been good. I went tubeless for flat protection more than anything else. actual weight between true fat tubes and split tubes.. i would guess split tubes should weigh in less. 24 inch 2.5 tube. with some cut away and a few ounces of Stans or Orange. 

good luck..


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Ascarlarkinyar - from your posts, it sounds like you are not using the Mulefut approved rim strip and tape. 
I posted the proper info in that thread where several other Mulefut owners said they had success with running theirs tubeless. 
Here it is:


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> Can you take a pic or give us a link to the adapter you used? Thx


http://www.backcountry.com/shimano-...lLR1p4ut_kkYDWbA67FYYaAu7O8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Split tube those Mulefuts. Works mint.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Latest photo of my Sturgis Bullet with new Vee Bulldozer 4.7 tires on Rolling Darryl rims!

Thanks for viewing and cheers!


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

NYrr496 said:


> Split tube those Mulefuts. Works mint.


The SunRingle tubeless kit is what we endorse. It's lighter and a supported method.  We cannot endorse any other method


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## glockrocket17 (Aug 26, 2015)

scottspark60 said:


> Latest photo of my Sturgis Bullet with new Vee Bulldozer 4.7 tires on Rolling Darryl rims!
> 
> Thanks for viewing and cheers!
> 
> View attachment 1024757


What size is your Sturgis?


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Awesome set up !! Please post more pics? 



scottspark60 said:


> Latest photo of my Sturgis Bullet with new Vee Bulldozer 4.7 tires on Rolling Darryl rims!
> 
> Thanks for viewing and cheers!
> 
> View attachment 1024757


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## Northeasterner (Oct 25, 2015)

I got a pleasant surprise when I finally ordered a small Night Train Bullet Monday , the price is now $1599!. They only had size small in stock but that's the size I need anyway. Pricing showed $1799 on the website but when I added a matte black bike to the cart it came out at $1599. I thought I made a mistake so I tried silver and got the same price, cool they must be having a sale to move the slow moving smalls! Now I can buy the extra 29er wheel set or other accessories. If anyone needs a small NTB order it now before the price goes up.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

glockrocket17 said:


> What size is your Sturgis?


It's Small size. Thanks.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

@joebikesdirect,

Thanks man and here are some more photos of my Fatty as requested.






























I just purchased the Sturgis Frameset and Wheelset from BD and built the bike with other components of my choice/color to match the color scheme of my bike. So far, I have changed the Weinmann HL80 rims with Surly RD rims, Vee Snowshoe 4.7 72tpi tires with Vee Bulldozer 4.7 120tpi tires.

Cheers.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*Mechanical brakes in winter?*



ascarlarkinyar said:


> the second problem is that wanted to run mechanical brakes in winter, but they will not fit. bummer. guess I gotta ruin a hydraulic pair every winter?


 Why would you want mechanical brakes in the winter? Hydraulics should be more reliable, since cables can freeze in cold, wet conditions. Hydraulics are impervious to pretty much everything.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

*Check your rear hub.*

Just a reminder to check your non drive side end cap. All three of the Novatec D202SB rear hubs I have are prone to this end cap loosening. When it loosens, it affects the freehub body pawl engagement. Even with blue loctite they'll loosen up some. That is all - happy trails.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

Bnystrom said:


> Why would you want mechanical brakes in the winter? Hydraulics should be more reliable, since cables can freeze in cold, wet conditions. Hydraulics are impervious to pretty much everything.


I don't know about your area but the salt on the roads and the occasional sand/dirt/mud combined with snow is murder for hydraulic brakes here. Also the fluid is a bit finicky under 10 degrees F.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Sorry if I missed it, but has anyone tried the XXL tyres on the BD carbon fork? My buddy has a spare warranty wobbler I might try for fitment, but surely someone has tried it. Judging by the generous clearance with my Chao 4.9's, he says it should fit fine.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

watermonkey said:


> Just a reminder to check your non drive side end cap. All three of the Novatec D202SB rear hubs I have are prone to this end cap loosening. When it loosens, it affects the freehub body pawl engagement. Even with blue loctite they'll loosen up some. That is all - happy trails.


+1

Blue Loc-tite + thru-axle tension helps, but is not fool-proof.

-F


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

*HL80 Tubeless, my way*

I found some closed-cell foam at work (of course, it is only available from one supplier on the planet, and not to you... sorry), but the good thing about it - and there are other foams that have this particular property (you can squeeze it and test it right on the spot) - it does not take a set when you compress it! You can leave your tire pumped up to 20psi for months, but when you air down, the foam swells right back up. THIS is what makes my split tubeless set-up trail-serviceable. I do not need an air compressor. I can use a hand pump. The tire is sealed before it even hits the rim.

If the foam is too dense, it is a pro wrestling match to get the tire on the rim, so it has to be somewhat soft foam.
Light weight, of course, is also desirable.
The piece I used was 8-9mm thick. The set-up almost held air with no Stan's (-3psi/hr), but there are microscopic leak paths that must be sealed and sealant is the only way to do it.

-F


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Fleas said:


> I found some closed-cell foam at work (of course, it is only available from one supplier on the planet, and not to you... sorry), but the good thing about it - and there are other foams that have this particular property (you can squeeze it and test it right on the spot) - it does not take a set when you compress it! You can leave your tire pumped up to 20psi for months, but when you air down, the foam swells right back up. THIS is what makes my split tubeless set-up trail-serviceable. I do not need an air compressor. I can use a hand pump. The tire is sealed before it even hits the rim.
> 
> If the foam is too dense, it is a pro wrestling match to get the tire on the rim, so it has to be somewhat soft foam.
> Light weight, of course, is also desirable.
> ...


What's the foam called?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

tfinator said:


> What's the foam called?


It is called "Zotek F", a polyvinylidene fluoride (PVDF) fluoropolymer which is a plastic relative of PTFE that has been foamed using nitrogen.
It is almost comical that it is just laying around our plant being used to cover other types of foam sheets to keep them clean, considering its normal application is in the aerospace industry due to its chemical and flame resistance. We don't even use it here. One of our sister companies is an exclusive wholesaler/converter.

-F


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## Urban0x (Jul 3, 2015)

So i switched my 2016 night train bullet to a 1x setup and i would like to route both the rear shifter cable, and rear break cable down each internal cable hole. Is it a bad idea to have the shifter cable go down the same side of the frame that its on, mainly for slack for turning?

Right now it's set up with the rear brake down the opposite side of the frame on the outside, and the rear shifter down the opposite side through the internal routing hole.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Hi Urban0x - 
Of course, a few say x cables must always be on y side - in my personal experience: as long as you have enough slack to make a gradual arc and there is no interference with anything else; route your cables anyway you want that makes sense for your use. You might have to use frame savers to protect the finish of your bike. Watch out for cables rubbing on each other as they can cut into each other


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

AllMountin' said:


> Sorry if I missed it, but has anyone tried the XXL tyres on the BD carbon fork? My buddy has a spare warranty wobbler I might try for fitment, but surely someone has tried it. Judging by the generous clearance with my Chao 4.9's, he says it should fit fine.


The Bikesdirect carbon fork measures about 144mm at the widest point and Espen said the XXL Snowshoe measures about 130mm

Here are some pics with the Vee BullDozer 4.8 mounted to give one an idea of clearance on that combo. Seem plenty of room  20 mm each side and tons of room above. About 40mm of clearance from top of tire.















hope this helps


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## hicksjerry (Dec 14, 2014)

Has anyone found a source for quality derailleur hangers for the Sturgis Bullet? I've already gone through 2 hangers due to how soft they are. I have ordered replacements through BikesDirect, but am hoping to find something that may last a little longer. FYI - it's hanger #28 on BikesDirect's website.

BikesDirect Replacement Derailleur Hangers


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> I don't know about your area but the salt on the roads and the occasional sand/dirt/mud combined with snow is murder for hydraulic brakes here. Also the fluid is a bit finicky under 10 degrees F.


Well, I live in NH where we have plenty of salt, sand, mud, snow, slush and cold winter temps. I've never had a problem with hydraulic brakes on _any _bike. I make it a point to rinse off accumulated crud after rides, but don't do any special maintenance and the brakes work fine (that's with Avid/SRAM, Shimano and Formula brakes).

As for the fluid, most brakes use the same fluid that cars and motorcycles do, which works well at all temps. Some use mineral oil, but I haven't found that to be a problem in cold temps, either.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Even the new "gen 3" hangers are basically just low-quality cast junk. They're way to brittle and crack even when aligning them prior to installing the derailleur. Unfortunately, nobody is making a machined aluminum hanger for our bikes yet.


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## rcpilot73 (Oct 26, 2015)

Well, I got my Sturgis on Monday and so far I love it.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

hicksjerry said:


> Has anyone found a source for quality derailleur hangers for the Sturgis Bullet? I've already gone through 2 hangers due to how soft they are. I have ordered replacements through BikesDirect, but am hoping to find something that may last a little longer. FYI - it's hanger #28 on BikesDirect's website.
> 
> BikesDirect Replacement Derailleur Hangers


Hi - 
Please contact [email protected] if one has any issues with purchased current gen hangers with complete details and pics. 

Since these are precision made, it would be unlikely to be mis-aligned from the start. If there is any issue with the casting alignment, we want to know about it, help our customers and get the factory to fix this issue 

All derailleur hangers tread a fine line. They have to be supportive for shifting performance yet be engineered to (usually) break before the frame is damaged by the force on the hanger. Of course, impact forces/situations vary widely and hangers are not a fail-safe nor a guarantee of protection for one's frame/parts in every situation. The replaceable hanger is another measure of protection and convenience.

If ones hanger is much too strong - you can wind up with more damage that cannot be fixed by simply bolting on another hanger.

With fatbikes extra mass, it is doubly important to never lay down or fall on the drive-side.

A replaceable hanger does not guarantee protection against incidental damages which can occur when associated debris or the derailleur itself gets thrown into the wheel or frame. Personally, I have found I had much better luck with hangers of any kind when I became very vigilant in inspecting my drivetrain and being alert to any changes in shifting/ drivetrain noise.

Personal Anecdote: The last ride I was on we had stopped for a water break. Prior to resuming the ride, I glanced at my drivetrain as is my habit and saw a vine had been pulled into my rear der and part way around the cassette. If I had not, it would surely have done some drivetrain damage. If I had resumed just riding along that vine could very easily bind up the der and break it off with the hanger. The vine would have then fallen off trailside and I would be left with a hanger/der that seemed to have mysteriously broken without any impacts.

Hope this helps - 

PS - please do contact [email protected] for any post purchase questions and issues


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

Bnystrom said:


> Even the new "gen 3" hangers are basically just low-quality cast junk. They're way to brittle and crack even when aligning them prior to installing the derailleur. Unfortunately, nobody is making a machined aluminum hanger for our bikes yet.


Yeah this is one of the biggest reasons, I'm having trouble pulling the trigger on one of these bikes. I like pretty much everything else about the bike, but shittay hangers suck.

I had an 2003 Spec BigHit Pro that had [email protected] der hanger design, after breaking several and not being able to find a decent replacement, I eventually sold the bike because of that ish. No fun traveling and having to replace a hanger on every or every few rides over the course of a year. Otherwise it was an amazing bike though.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

We've sold thousands of these Sturgis/NightTrain and the hanger issues are few and far between on the current generation. On these forums, a handful out of thousands kind of skews the actual statistics.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

joebikesdirect said:


> We've sold thousands of these Sturgis/NightTrain and the hanger issues are few and far between on the current generation. On these forums, a handful out of thousands kind of skews the actual statistics.


This is so true, when I read this stuff it sometimes makes me paranoid... My sturgis is working great so far, although it does have a strange light "click" sound in the front BB or crank. The pedaling is smooth, shifts good and the chain is not rubbing on the front der. It only happens when the chain ring side crank is going thru the 12 o'clock position. And it only seems to happen when I am not listening to my Ipod


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

joebikesdirect said:


> We've sold thousands of these Sturgis/NightTrain and the hanger issues are few and far between on the current generation. On these forums, a handful out of thousands kind of skews the actual statistics.


Your new hanger (which was sent for free, a fantastic show off customer service) broke immediately when I attempted to readjust it the very first time.
Was using park tool hanger doodad all legit, too.


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## DGOJosh (Sep 11, 2009)

*Rear Thru Axle Compatibility...*

Does anyone know the thread pitch on the rear thru axle the NTB comes with? I've had the stock Kenesis come un-threaded a couple of times now and I'd like to replace it with something more dependable. I'd like to pick up a SRAM Maxle Ultimate MTB 12x197 (Length 229mm, thread length 20mm, thread pitch 12x1.75 if it is compatible.

Other than that this bike has been great! I've put over 100 miles of rocky Southern Colorado single track on it and it's a lot of fun! We got our first snow today! I can't wait to get out on it!


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

snatchj said:


> Does anyone know the thread pitch on the rear thru axle the NTB comes with? I've had the stock Kenesis come un-threaded a couple of times now and I'd like to replace it with something more dependable. I'd like to pick up a SRAM Maxle Ultimate MTB 12x197 (Length 229mm, thread length 20mm, thread pitch 12x1.75 if it is compatible.
> 
> Other than that this bike has been great! I've put over 100 miles of rocky Southern Colorado single track on it and it's a lot of fun! We got our first snow today! I can't wait to get out on it!
> 
> View attachment 1026632


I always thought the thread aspect of thru axles was standardized. Come to think of it though, I never actually tested that hypothesis.
Where did you find the axles for sale separately? I looked on line a few months back and didn't see any options.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

The set-screw is what secures the hanger from the back side along with the thru-axle threading into the hanger. Please make sure that's tight- would suggest some loc-tite on the threads

Here are my suggestions for your thru-axle. Those are branded Kinesis so should be very good and use a nearly identical design to Rockshox MTB thru-axles with levers AFAIK.

1) remove grease from threads of thru-axle

2) wind two layers of teflon plumbers tape around the threads

3) Adjust the Lever by Tightening the allen bolt in the center of the pivot til the Lever is secure when in the closed position. Ensure it's tight against the frame.

4) ensure the release lever is in the slot of the non-drive side axle end for effective tightening. Tighten slightly past snug and close lever.

The Kinesis instructions say "...adequate lever tightening torque is 15-20KGF/cm2"

Also make sure your rear hub axles don't have much if any side to side play when fully inserted in the dropouts 



snatchj said:


> Does anyone know the thread pitch on the rear thru axle the NTB comes with? I've had the stock Kenesis come un-threaded a couple of times now and I'd like to replace it with something more dependable. I'd like to pick up a SRAM Maxle Ultimate MTB 12x197 (Length 229mm, thread length 20mm, thread pitch 12x1.75 if it is compatible.
> 
> Other than that this bike has been great! I've put over 100 miles of rocky Southern Colorado single track on it and it's a lot of fun! We got our first snow today! I can't wait to get out on it!
> 
> View attachment 1026632


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## DGOJosh (Sep 11, 2009)

tfinator said:


> I always thought the thread aspect of thru axles was standardized. Come to think of it though, I never actually tested that hypothesis.
> Where did you find the axles for sale separately? I looked on line a few months back and didn't see any options.


Bikeman SRAM Maxle Ultimate Rear MTB, 12x197mm (Length 229mm, Thread Length 20mm, Thread Pitch M12x1.75), Bl


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## DGOJosh (Sep 11, 2009)

I'll be sure to try cleaning off the grease and using teflon. Thanks for the feedback joebikesdirect!


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Note on the Sturgis or possibly any of the mulefut bikes. The oem rim strips on my bike came from the factory pushed all the way to one side of the rim. Rim strip is thick and makes the craze bead lock even more so. If you can’t get the bead off, try the other side. I put different rim strips on when converting to tubeless and used a bit of thin double-sided tape to help keep it centered while taping.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

Before going out, I pulled the crank off and cleaned it up a bit, reassembled, and the light "click was gone... (Man These cranks are easy to get off) Then I was off to Cam-Rock Mtn bike park and did 14 miles.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

When converting the Mulefut rims to tubeless, remove the stock rim strips and install the SunRingle Mulefut rimstrip, tape, valve stems and sealant 



Turd said:


> Note on the Sturgis or possibly any of the mulefut bikes. The oem rim strips on my bike came from the factory pushed all the way to one side of the rim. Rim strip is thick and makes the craze bead lock even more so. If you can't get the bead off, try the other side. I put different rim strips on when converting to tubeless and used a bit of thin double-sided tape to help keep it centered while taping.


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## DGOJosh (Sep 11, 2009)

joebikesdirect said:


> The set-screw is what secures the hanger from the back side along with the thru-axle threading into the hanger. Please make sure that's tight- would suggest some loc-tite on the threads
> 
> Here are my suggestions for your thru-axle. Those are branded Kinesis so should be very good and use a nearly identical design to Rockshox MTB thru-axles with levers AFAIK.
> 
> ...


I did what you suggested last night. It seems a lot more secure now. I hadn't seen the allen bolt. That seemed to be the issue. It came super loose.

I'm off for a night ride tonight to test it out!


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## mothgraphics (Oct 7, 2015)

*Rack mounts*

Bought a Sturgis a few weeks ago, and have been having a blast.
I would like to suggest if you are considering the Sturgis, but shied away because there are no rack mounts, don't! Mine came with both front and back mounts (see pic) as well as cable hangars under the top tube for.....hmm, maybe a future dropper post?

Anyone else having problems with the seat clamp? Mine has come completely loose during my last two rides - the last one only a couple miles to the store for milk and back.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I upgraded my seat post clamp soon after I got the bike. I found a less expensive quick release one on Amazon for around $20.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mothgraphics (Oct 7, 2015)

I'm not having trouble with the seatpost clamp at the frame - it's where the seat clamps to the seatpost.


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## bobdurden (Apr 24, 2013)

*New Crank for Sturgis*

Hey, guys. I've recently swapped over to a 1x setup with 30t up front and a 42t One-up cog in back. I'm really liking the setup but I'm already feeling that I need to further my granny setup come snow season.

Can anybody recommend a decent direct mount crank? My thinking is that I can drop to a 26t in snow and back to the 30t in dryer seasons

The race face turbine and Aeffect look like they fit the bill. Any of you guys have experience with the race face fat cranks?

Thanks!


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I have Race Face Rides on my son's 190mm 9Zero7. I put a 26 tooth narrow wide ring on the inner position. It's machined to position the chain slightly outboard. There's a bach guard on the outer position. Works well.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

mothgraphics said:


> I'm not having trouble with the seatpost clamp at the frame - it's where the seat clamps to the seatpost.


Hi Mothgraphics - please email some pics and summary of your issues to [email protected] and they'll get you taken care of 

You might try de-greasing all contact surfaces in the seatpost saddle clamp. Then, lightly grease the threads of the clamping screw/s and re-tighten.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

*Before / After Mulefut Tubeless Conversion*

Thought there would be some interest in this before and after pics of Mulefut Tubeless conversion of front 150mm Mulefut 80SL wheel

Tire is VeeRubber BullDozer 4.7 120tpi
Rotor 180mm

Process was -
Remove tube and OE Red Rimstrip
prep / clean rim with alcohol
SunRingle nylon rimstrip, tape rim with SunRingle tape, insert valvestem
Used 2oz of sealant per Mulefut instructions

Personally, I might run another 2oz of sealant for extra flat protection. I don't seem to hear any extra sloshing but that might be due to the thick tire.

Before weight - 3800 grams (3.80 KG)
After tubeless conversion weight - 3070 grams (3.07 KG)
Total weight lost in one wheel = 730 grams (1.6 pounds)

Thus likely most will lose at least 3 lbs going tubeless with the Mulefut wheelsets on these Motobecane Sturgis and NightTrain fatbikes

Seems pretty good


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

I just installed a Turbine Cinch crankset on my Night Train frame. It was an easy install and it works great. Mine is a 36/22 double, but the same crank accepts single rings if you want to go that route. The only consideration with Race Face is that you also need to buy their BB wrench, since their BB cups are not compatible with standard tools.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Bnystrom said:


> I just installed a Turbine Cinch crankset on my Night Train frame. It was an easy install and it works great. Mine is a 36/22 double, but the same crank accepts single rings if you want to go that route. The only consideration with Race Face is that you also need to buy their BB wrench, since their BB cups are not compatible with standard tools.


Can you post the part numbers for the swapped crank? I would like to do the same crank swap, but am uncertain what to buy.

Did you also replace the bottom bracket at the same time?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

I'll have to dig up the packages to get the Race Face part numbers. The arms and BB are pretty straightforward. They do sell several chainring sets, so I'll get that number for sure. You also need to make sure that you order a 104/64 spider, NOT the 120. I screwed that up by not paying close attention when I ordered. Additionally, the chainrings come with a set of double-ring bolts and spacers for the outside of the spider. There are no bolts for the inner ring. I really didn't want to bother with the spacers or a bashguard, so I picked up a set of single ring bolts for the big ring and used just the male part of the original bolts for the small ring. I had purchased just the NT frameset (with a Bluto, which I'm not using) and the carbon fork. I originally installed a cheap, single ring crank from Yishunbike (a.k.a. Asian Cycle Express) that I bought when I ordered wheels from them. The BB was not compatible with the Race Face crank, so I replaced everything. The best price I found online was ordering through Jet.com. The arms came from Beach City Bike and the rest came from The Cycling Pros. Jet discounted the package price and has an additional discount for first-time customers. The total was $325.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

tfinator said:


> Has anyone straightened their new hanger?
> Mine broke on the first bend.
> Had to revert back to the original black one.





Fleas said:


> Amazingly, even with several branches and junk going directly into the cage of my rear drlr - to where I had to stop pedaling, get off, and untangle - the orig. hanger has barely bent at all. I mean, it over-shifted my low gear, but the indexing was not off - so, a very small bend. I did not try to straighten it. Just using as-is.
> 
> -F


My original hanger finally bent. I think it was already tweaked, but yesterday in the dark I knocked my leaning bike over on the drive side moving a tree off the trail and it really bent it. I could not shift lower than 4th cog.

Anticipating that it would break if I bent it back I just rode it the way it was.

At home I read that aluminum might be more compliant at about 550 degrees F.

I made a heat shield out of aluminum foil to cover the hub and frame tubes, removed the derailleur, and installed an old axle in its place for leverage.

I do not have a very focused flame on my torch so I did my best to quickly (10 seconds, if that) heat up the thin section of the hanger and bend it back to its original position. I had to tweak it a little more after that but I didn't use any more heat. The hanger is not broken, but we'll see if it holds up under normal riding. I may have really softened it up. I also may have a bend in the derailleur itself, but my eye can't measure it. It shifts fine on the stand.

The frame itself and the hub got to maybe 100+ F. I could still touch it, and my camo vinyl finish did not melt or curl. The heat traveled _really_ fast in all that aluminum.

-F


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Bummer that derailleur hanger issue is still the #1 issue. I'm just getting the fat bike in order again after giving it most of the summer off. 29er just flies through the XC trails in my geographical area so much more nimbly. But I did still make it a point to take out the Sturgis and go "truckin' " down by the river across some really nasty hardscrabble limestone (I think?) a couple of times. Anyways...

I look forward to putting this thing back into weekly service. And I have a question. 
How do you keep the Bluto seals from leaking again??

I know. I could read that thread. But I don't want to:cryin: So somebody spare me the gory details and just give the cliff's notes... please!

IIRC, the problem was the grease that they spec'd from the factory was too gooey or sticky or something. But dammit, I don't remember the solution. I know that there are kits out there for the upgrade too... but I think that they are kind of overkill. Thinner grease might do? Who remembers??


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Whoops! That was easier than I thought-

Found it inside of a minute search:

SLICK HONEY

Many have vouched for this grease being able to cure the cold weather Bluto blues.

I believe them. Ordered a tube. I'll report back after I've done the work and ridden some December cold.

Cheers all. Hope y'all are as pumped for winter riding as I am. Lat-ah!


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

AthleticAL  
These hangers do not bend when someone is just riding along.

Prior to working at Bikesdirect I have owned several different brands of bikes. Fact: I've bent or broken every single derailleur hanger multiple times on these brands: Specialized, Mongoose and Cannondale. I have even snapped off derailleurs entirely. That was more expensive than replacing just the hanger.

Consider we've sold *thousands* of these Motobecane Sturgis and NightTrain. The derailleur hanger is a non issue. The current gen hangers are reinforced.

*Crashes* or the bike falling hard on the drive side are the reasons AFAIK a couple of users that say they bent a current hanger. This will bend hangers on any bike that has a normal replaceable hanger regardless of brand. Most of them have bent the hanger back.

No der hangers are indestructible/unbendable. Crash / fall on driveside will cause damage to any bike.

Good news is, we have these hangers available and they take seconds to replace  I always carry a spare hanger when riding and recommend others do the same


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

joebikesdirect said:


> AthleticAL
> These hangers do not bend when someone is just riding along.
> 
> Prior to working at Bikesdirect I have owned several different brands of bikes. Fact: I've bent or broken every single derailleur hanger multiple times on these brands: Specialized, Mongoose and Cannondale. I have even snapped off derailleurs entirely. That was more expensive than replacing just the hanger.
> ...


My gen 3 hanger broke instantly when I attempted to straighten it the first time.
I have never had this happen on another bike.

Are you positive that yours are the same material/ fabricated the same as others?

They are much cheaper to replace than a RD, but if I go through them that fast... Then that won't be true anymore.

At this point it's just 'oh well'. I'll buy more and deal with it.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Replaceable derailleur hangers are designed to break or bend when the derailleur is struck either during a fall or a drop. It's either that or the derailleur itself and if I'm correct it's a lot cheaper to replace a hanger than a derailleur. That's why they made them replaceable. So when your hanger breaks or bends, it's doing its job. You don't want a hanger so strong that it makes the derailleur the weak point.


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## NRP (Sep 8, 2015)

Question: What is the difference between a Sturgis Bullet and a Night Train? Just the components? Frame geometry? Hard to tell exactly from the website.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

NRP said:


> Question: What is the difference between a Sturgis Bullet and a Night Train? Just the components? Frame geometry? Hard to tell exactly from the website.


I have a Sturgis Bullet and a buddy of mine has the Night Train and the frames are identical. The difference is in the components.


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## NRP (Sep 8, 2015)

Thanks Tony!


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

tonyride1 said:


> Replaceable derailleur hangers are designed to break or bend when the derailleur is struck either during a fall or a drop. It's either that or the derailleur itself and if I'm correct it's a lot cheaper to replace a hanger than a derailleur. That's why they made them replaceable. So when your hanger breaks or bends, it's doing its job. You don't want a hanger so strong that it makes the derailleur the weak point.


Thanks for the PSA. Consider though that hangers are meant to bend and then be re straightened.
Maybe after a few instances one will break.
They shouldn't be breaking every time you touch them.
If they were, then there'd be no tool for hanger alignment, right?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

tfinator said:


> Thanks for the PSA. Consider though that hangers are meant to bend and then be re straightened.
> Maybe after a few instances one will break.
> They shouldn't be breaking every time you touch them.
> If they were, then there'd be no tool for hanger alignment, right?


^^^This is a very good point.

I have bent many drlr hangers, but they've always been "straightenable". Maybe the new thing should be tantalum drlr hangers. You can bend it 1,000 times and it won't break (no work hardening). They are about as heavy as lead, though.

Or maybe just find an aluminum alloy (and make sure your supplier is using it) that is tempered to take some deformation.

-F


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Annealing the hanger with a propane torch would probably extent their useful life. Perform this operation with the hanger removed from the bicycle naturally.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Haven't had Sturgis for long but the sky is not falling, I'm happy. Me drops it on the drive train and snag the bush. 
I think pics of hanger damage are in order. Forged/cast whatever, any voids or pockets on the exposed fracture? If things are that bad then BD should ishue an RA for the damaged part, inspect in-house and then possibly send back to manufacturer. 
I've failed and struggled with importing sporting goods hardware (to be vague). It can suck. 
Poorly made in China is a good read to get some perspectives on shenanigans.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

My next step is to check the alignment of the rear dropouts on my frame, to see if that's the source of the misalignment that made it necessary to tweak the derailleur hanger. I'll need to machine some adapters to accommodate the 197mm spacing before I can check the alignment, since my old Campy alignment gauges are designed for 125mm spacing.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*Turbine Cinch part numbers*



WhiskeyJr said:


> Can you post the part numbers for the swapped crank?


Note that these Race Face part numbers are for 175mm cranks for a 190mm rear end, 36/22 chainrings, spider and 100mm BB, all in black.


Crank arms - CK14TUR190A175BLK 
Spider - F10002 
Chainring set - RRTUR10EBLK 
BB - BBBSA10030B6 

These fit perfectly on the Night Train frame. I just had to leave out one of the thin crank spacers, as it was too tight with all of them in place. I used 2 BB spacers on the right and one on the left.


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## strengthxcycle (Dec 15, 2012)

*Love my night train!*


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Somewhat on topic...for those of you that made your own rear derailleur hangers, what did they cost to have made at a machine shop?

I am asking as I am interested in the BD Ti "gravel grinder" that comes with a QR rear end but is listed as convertible to TA. When asking BD it seems there aren't any immediate plans to have the TA conversion drop outs available and I am wondering how much it might cost to have my own made.

Save Up to 60% Off Disc Brake Road Bikes - Motobecane Turino TEAM Hydraulic Disc Brake Road Bikes

Thanks in advance.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

I have the 15.5" frame and the seat tube water bottle mount prevent the seat from being inserted any further even with the bolt removed. Is this common to all of the Sturgis/Nightrain frame sets?


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Hi - this is normal with any small framed bikes and shorter riders. This means you get to use a lighter/shorter seatpost  meaning time to get the hacksaw out and shorten your seat post. 
Make sure to measure twice and cut once. De-burr the end, use grease/assembly paste on the inserted end. 
Please Make sure you have at least 3 inches of seat post inserted below the lowest weld of the seat tube / top tube junction


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## Northeasterner (Oct 25, 2015)

byron555 said:


> I have the 15.5" frame and the seat tube water bottle mount prevent the seat from being inserted any further even with the bolt removed. Is this common to all of the Sturgis/Nightrain frame sets?


I had the same problem with my 15.5" frame too. Either cut down the boat anchor seatpost that came with the bike or get a shorter one. I used a 350mm carbon post that I had, it worked fine for my height without cutting. I think the post that comes with the bike is 400mm.

Use a pipe cutter for a much cleaner cut than a hacksaw.


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## trapperK2 (Jul 20, 2005)

*Bluto Question*

New to thru axle/Bluto. When I assembled the bike there are 2 small adapters that looked like they may fit somewhere on the axles? I installed the Front wheel without them to start and immediatly realized they are needed. I inserted them to each side of the fork and then mounted tire. Is that correct? Won't they just fall out if I need to remove my front wheel on the trail? Or, is there something I am missing?

PS - I have not ridden the bike yet.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

trapperK2 said:


> New to thru axle/Bluto. When I assembled the bike there are 2 small adapters that looked like they may fit somewhere on the axles? I installed the Front wheel without them to start and immediatly realized they are needed. I inserted them to each side of the fork and then mounted tire. Is that correct? Won't they just fall out if I need to remove my front wheel on the trail? Or, is there something I am missing?
> 
> PS - I have not ridden the bike yet.


These are discussed in a bunch of threads including this one.
They pop into your front hub.
I find that mine are very snug and will only come off very very purposefully.

So pop them into the hub then install the wheel into the fork.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

One suggestion for these axle caps - degrease and apply some loctite or tiny tiny amount of silicone caulk to help retention


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## trapperK2 (Jul 20, 2005)

Thanks for the advice joe/tf - makes feel a little less dumb.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

@trapperK2 - apologies, it was not my intention to make anyone feel dumb. I was trying to be helpful.


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## trapperK2 (Jul 20, 2005)

joebikesdirect said:


> @trapperK2 - apologies, it was not my intention to make anyone feel dumb. I was trying to be helpful.


No - I need no help at that lol. I was just saying I feel dumb not knowing where they went.


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

tonyride1 said:


> Replaceable derailleur hangers are designed to break or bend when the derailleur is struck either during a fall or a drop. It's either that or the derailleur itself and if I'm correct it's a lot cheaper to replace a hanger than a derailleur. That's why they made them replaceable. So when your hanger breaks or bends, it's doing its job. You don't want a hanger so strong that it makes the derailleur the weak point.


Also, the hanger is designed to fail well before a frame. Think of it as a fuse or curcuit breaker in your house. It is designed to fail before the more expensive components.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Is there a weight difference between the 2014 Weinmann wheels and the 2015 Mulefuts? Are the 'futs stronger?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

That's been discussed ALOT. They are alot lighter.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Is there a weight difference between the 2014 Weinmann wheels and the 2015 Mulefuts? Are the 'futs stronger?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





tigris99 said:


> That's been discussed ALOT. They are alot lighter.


"Stronger" might be debatable. The Weinmanns are heavy but feel pretty strong simply by virtue of the amount of aluminum present. For me, the factory wheels are probably "overbuilt", so I could get by with lighter wheels. I haven't felt compelled to upgrade, though.

-F


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

I dinged a HL-80 yesterday on a pretty gentle curb hop.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Thanks largely to the discussion in this thread, I pulled the trigger on a large Night Train Bullet Ti today. After looking at many bikes online and in person, this is quite a deal.

Now there are only 8 left in size large.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

I ordered a large Night Train Bullet today! Bikesdirect sellin bikes!


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

My Sturgis Bullet frameset and fork just arrived today. I was originally going to buy the complete bike, but when the option came up to purchase the Mulefut wheelset separately, I decided I'd rather do my own build. I inspected the frame and it's pretty nice, except for the Motobecane decal being misaligned on the one side of the downtube.

I was anxious to check out the geometry, so I installed the headset, fork, and wheels for a mockup and took some measurements. 
This is for a size large (19") with the 120mm Bluto fork, unsagged:
Front Center: 720mm
Wheelbase: 1180mm
BB Height: 341mm
Effective TT Length: 630mm
Stack: 625mm
Reach: 410mm

As you can see, the geometry is way off compared to the published chart shown here: https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/sturgis-night-geo.gif It's obvious that those figures were taken from the frame with a rigid fork. Even if you account for 30mm of sag (25% of the 120mm fork travel), the numbers are still off. Even with the accounted sag, I'm taking an educated guess that the fork length is about 30mm longer than the one used for the geometry chart. This means that the head tube angle is actually about 68.5 degrees instead of 70 degrees. However, the seat tube angle doesn't seem too slack, based on the pitch of my saddle (I just used the seatpost/saddle off my Niner Rip9). It is actually less slack than my Rip9, so that's a good thing. This bike's geometry is actually very close to my Rip9 with a 150mm fork, so I think I'll be very happy with this bike and size. I don't think I'll have to worry about pedal strikes or twitchy handling, that's for sure


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Allamuchy Joe said:


> Also, the hanger is designed to fail well before a frame. Think of it as a fuse or curcuit breaker in your house. It is designed to fail before the more expensive components.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Right. But not the first time a shrub brushes against it, which is the issue at hand.
These are far, far weaker than other hangers.


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

*One year in with my Sturgis*

It's now been 1 yr since my Sturgis Bullet arrived. It came with a severely bent der hanger (I think it's post #888 in this thread) and kinda poorly packed. BD promptly sent out a replacement and I was able to bend the original back into shape by clamping it in a vise and not putting too much torque on it. The Gen3 hangers they sent out are much beefier than the originals but they are generally lighter than other hangers I have on hand. I'm guessing because they incorporate the nut for the through-axle, they need to be cast instead of machined. IMO that is their "weakness". I have no other TA hangers to compare with, only my experience with GT machined hangers. I think BD has been pretty straight up in dealing with the problem of the Gen1 hangers.

So, in the last year I swapped out the grips and the tires (for some 4.8 Knards) and otherwise have just ridden the bike and had a blast. To me, fatbikes are what MTBs were "meant" to be. I think if the guys in Marin had these parts in the 70's we would've skipped over MTB evolution as we know it.

I've also had more interaction with people on the trails than in the previous 20+yrs I've been riding.
Hikers, equestrians, people in the parking lot...
I've gotten some attitude from other fat bikers on name brand bikes but that usually stops when they see the bike up close and I tell them what it cost. (I recently bumped into a couple of those guys who are now riding Motos.)

So...am I happy with my purchase? Absolutely.

Maybe a BD bike is not the bike for everyone because you have to know what you need and what you're buying, but no doubt they've changed the fat bike landscape. :thumbsup:


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

GT_guy said:


> It's now been 1 yr since my Sturgis Bullet arrived. It came with a severely bent der hanger (I think it's post #888 in this thread) and kinda poorly packed. BD promptly sent out a replacement and I was able to bend the original back into shape by clamping it in a vise and not putting too much torque on it. The Gen3 hangers they sent out are much beefier than the originals but they are generally lighter than other hangers I have on hand. I'm guessing because they incorporate the nut for the through-axle, they need to be cast instead of machined. IMO that is their "weakness". I have no other TA hangers to compare with, only my experience with GT machined hangers. I think BD has been pretty straight up in dealing with the problem of the Gen1 hangers.
> 
> So, in the last year I swapped out the grips and the tires (for some 4.8 Knards) and otherwise have just ridden the bike and had a blast. To me, fatbikes are what MTBs were "meant" to be. I think if the guys in Marin had these parts in the 70's we would've skipped over MTB evolution as we know it.
> 
> ...


Agreed. If it wasn't for BD's low cost of entry into fat bikes I probably wouldn't be riding one right now. I also got a Sturgis Bullet and I absolutely love it.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

strengthxcycle said:


> View attachment 1029253
> View attachment 1029254
> View attachment 1029255
> View attachment 1029256


Very nice! I dig the look and specs of that Nighttrain; any idea what it weighs? Do you think it will legitimately fit tires up to 5"? Thanks!


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

dayooper said:


> Very nice! I dig the look and specs of that Nighttrain; any idea what it weighs? Do you think it will legitimately fit tires up to 5"? Thanks!


While I can't say what that particular bike weighs (my L with Bluto and heavier wheels and cranks weighs 37) , I can tell you that 5" tires should be no problem. With the standard 4.5" SnowShoes on, there is plenty of room in every direction (clearance at the stays and at the bottom bracket junction). And I've yet to hear report of anybody having any clearance issues with any tires. The only clearance issue I can even think of is if somebody runs 5" tires _and_ runs obnoxiously long grip studs. Then you *MIGHT* run into some problems.


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

Good times on maiden voyage. Oneup 30t nw + 42/16 worked very well on the trail. Snowshoe tires felt initially poor compared to bud/Nate on my first fatty but after the first long ride i got used to them and they performed very well on a wide mix of single track, mud, snow and ice. Good times, I'm looking forward to more winter!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Finally ordered up some Tokens for the Bluto. I have given this bike a fair shake since I received it in Feb. No mods except to remove those heavy rim strips, swap saddles, and match the grips to my color scheme. At the first of this month I went split tubeless as I changed tires to Bud/Lou for Winter.

I am riding it like I know what I'm doing now, hence the need for tokens. If I was just cruising, it would be fine without them, but I'm pushing it now with bigger hits and a few jumps. Much like my 29er when I first realized what I could run over with it, this bike takes some rough stuff and just mows over it. The fat tires have been great in wet leaves, mud ruts, sand, water, loose rocks, snow - it's very forgiving. Tubeless made a noticeable diff.
It still sucks on pavement. 

AND my straightened drlr hanger did not snap off with all the hard hits yesterday. I read another thing that says you can put it in the oven at 550F (that's about as high as a normal appliance oven will go) for an hour and that will make it less brittle. I do not know what that will do to the strength, though.

Oh, and regarding W-I-D-E tires: Bud and Lou fit frame and fork with good mud clearance. Bigger tires would fit, but your clearance might become too small to clear debris. In a stream crossing a small rock wedged in the Bud up front and when it came under the fork bridge it shot out forward like a bullet. It was kinda cool, but it reminded me how much room they take up.

-F


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

I'm looking at the NightTrain Bullet Ti, but I am now wondering is the Ti frame really makes much of a difference over Aluminum. First is the AL frame lighter than the Ti. Also with the squish in the tires is having a more "forgiving" Ti frame really any advantage over the AL? Thoughts?


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

TheNormsk said:


> I'm looking at the NightTrain Bullet Ti, but I am now wondering is the Ti frame really makes much of a difference over Aluminum. First is the AL frame lighter than the Ti. Also with the squish in the tires is having a more "forgiving" Ti frame really any advantage over the AL? Thoughts?


Based on the weights posted so far, the alloy and Ti frames appear to weigh about the same. With the big tires, I seriously doubt you'll feel any difference in compliance. The advantage of Ti is the corrosion resistance, the better warranty, and the bling factor. You might notice a bigger difference in ride quality if you run a 29er wheelset.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

OhioPT said:


> Based on the weights posted so far, the alloy and Ti frames appear to weigh about the same. With the big tires, I seriously doubt you'll feel any difference in compliance. The advantage of Ti is the corrosion resistance, the better warranty, and the bling factor. You might notice a bigger difference in ride quality if you run a 29er wheelset.


The Aluminum versions should have no corrosion issues really. That's a steel concern.

IF you ever do harm an aluminum frame, however unlikely as it may be, then it can become compromised in terms of strength/safety. Steel and Ti frames can take a ding better, in general, than aluminum frames can.

I'm fully satisfied with the aluminum frame. I confess i'd prefer the Mulefut wheels. But it's alright. Eventually I might spring for the DT Swiss 710 rims.... named for their weight


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

OhioPT said:


> My Sturgis Bullet frameset and fork just arrived today. I was originally going to buy the complete bike, but when the option came up to purchase the Mulefut wheelset separately, I decided I'd rather do my own build. I inspected the frame and it's pretty nice, except for the Motobecane decal being misaligned on the one side of the downtube.
> 
> I was anxious to check out the geometry, so I installed the headset, fork, and wheels for a mockup and took some measurements.
> This is for a size large (19") with the 120mm Bluto fork, unsagged:
> ...


Congrats on getting your bike!

In taking note of your bike measure, I had to check out my own... just more out of curiosity than anything else.

My bike is a Sturgis size L same as yours, complete with Bluto. I agree with your theory that the B-D official numbers must be for a rigid fork bike. But many of the numbers I got differ from yours. So, that's a bit of a head-scratcher...

Anyways, here's what mine spec'd out at (trying my very best to be accurate, any given measurement could be +/- 3%). I did use string and a sinker, but for level I just eyed it compared to the window frame I set up the bike at). All measurements in mm, mine to the left and theirs to the right-

1160 - wheelbase _B-D: 1144_
720 - front center - NA
320 - bottom bracket height - _319_
620 - ETT - _619_
610 - stack - NA
430 - reach (to stock 110 mm stem) NA
460 - chainstay - _460_

So my #s jive with their givens except for on wheelbase. In the end, I like the way the bike fits me. Best of luck to you.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Got myself the Mulefut wheel set for my Night Train, couldn't get the Weilmans to setup up tubeless. Haven't used them yet because I can't the tires off the damn rims, holy **** these things are tight. Any tips?


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## strengthxcycle (Dec 15, 2012)

dayooper said:


> Very nice! I dig the look and specs of that Nighttrain; any idea what it weighs? Do you think it will legitimately fit tires up to 5"? Thanks![/QUOTE ] Not sure of the weight. But I set it up tubeless and changed the seat and seat post ,bars and stem... Also 1x10 and it's pretty light for a fatbike. I love it! It's fine without upgrades but I like changing stuff邏. 5" tires shouldn't be a prob , I have a set of snowshoe xls which seem to be a lot larger then the Regular snowshoes...gonna change to them as soon as snow falls. I really like the regular snowshoes for normal dry trails and they weren't too bad on the beach. Kinda glad I didn't get a bluto fork... I have been riding some gnarly trails and don't feel the need. I'm sure it would be fun with a bluto... But I don't wanna know better haha.


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## cwalton (Jan 17, 2013)

When my bike came this week I looked at the tires and went for a ruler immediately. They were quite a bit smaller than my Ground Controls on my Fatboy. On the 80 mm rims the Snowshoe was about 3.9 inches. I wanted more traction in the back so I stole the front GC and put it on the back of the Moto but it only measured 4 inches. The Snowshoe on the 90mm only increased about an 1/8 of an inch. I was a little disappointed. There is 1/2 an inch on each side of the GC at 4 inches, so I doubt a true 5 inch tire would have clearance. Now if it follows the industry trend and the five inch tire measures 4.5 then maybe.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

New NTBTi is inbound and the new delivery date is Friday rather than Monday, what a pain trying to change the delivery address since no one will be at work on Friday. 

This means I get to try it out this weekend during the daylight! Once it's here and running, I'll list the Pugs and a fixie for sale. It'll mean N-1 instead of N+1 but 5 bikes is still a decent amount to have on hand.


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## trapperK2 (Jul 20, 2005)

TheNormsk said:


> I'm looking at the NightTrain Bullet Ti, but I am now wondering is the Ti frame really makes much of a difference over Aluminum. First is the AL frame lighter than the Ti. Also with the squish in the tires is having a more "forgiving" Ti frame really any advantage over the AL? Thoughts?


The geometry may be slightly different as well. Maybe compare the two and see? It seems to me my Alum Bullet is a slightly more "trail" bike and the Ti has a steeper head tube angle making it better for touring etc.? I have a Ti frame 29er and love the ride quality - The Ti options also have better specs on cockpit/seat/post.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

tonyride1 said:


> Agreed. If it wasn't for BD's low cost of entry into fat bikes I probably wouldn't be riding one right now. I also got a Sturgis Bullet and I absolutely love it.


+1, I bought a Bullseye Monster first, and a Sturgis 6 months later. The Monster now belongs to my father. The Monster is a great bike for the $$$, I just wanted something better.


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## ascdesigns (May 21, 2007)

Hi, can anyone verify how much travel the *2016* Sturgis Bullet's Bluto comes with? Karla from BD said 120mm but I think she may have cut/paste from the 2015 model specs. The 2016 specs show no info for the Bluto travel. 

I guess the worst case is that if I got a 100mm Bluto I'd need to buy the new air spring to increase the travel to 120mm, but it would be nice to have it ready to go with the longer travel. Thanks for any input!


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

byron555 said:


> +1, I bought a Bullseye Monster first, and a Sturgis 6 months later. The Monster now belongs to my father. The Monster is a great bike for the $$$, I just wanted something better.


Also +1.

I bought a FB4 and loved riding it so much I bought a NTB a year later.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

100mm for 2016 Sturgis Bullet


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Any ideas why the travel dropped from 120 to 100mm for 2015 to 2016?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

TheNormsk said:


> Any ideas why the travel dropped from 120 to 100mm for 2015 to 2016?


I replaced the 120 that came with my NTB with a 100. The front end was much easier to control, especially up hills. I'm guessing they found the same when designing the 2016 models.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## ascdesigns (May 21, 2007)

Thanks all. I guess I'll try the 100mm and if I don't like it I'll source an air spring to increase the travel (if that's possible).


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Just a quick PSA, if you've used your bike for a while and haven't serviced the BB yet, I'll recommend that you service it sooner not later.

I've had mine for 10 months, and put maybe 300 miles on it. Today I pulled the cranks and BB for the first time. The BB didn't turn out easily. Unlike other external BB bikes I have worked on. For the drive side, every turn was hard. Just a slight mismatch between BB and frame I think?? When returning it, liberally greased, it was the same. 

Anyways, I also discovered some varnish-like gunk and very minor pitting on the crank spindle. I removed this with 300 grit sandpaper. But if I would've done this service sooner, and greased this months ago, I might have prevented the varnish from forming (too little grease plus a little water intrusion is my guess as to what caused this).

The bearings were still good though, so that's good.

Early maintenance. Always a good idea.


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

ascdesigns said:


> Hi, can anyone verify how much travel the *2016* Sturgis Bullet's Bluto comes with?


My wife's small 2016 Sturgis Bullet came with a 100mm Bluto. However, I wonder if the reason behind that is the fact it was a small frame.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Allamuchy Joe said:


> My wife's small 2016 Sturgis Bullet came with a 100mm Bluto. However, I wonder if the reason behind that is the fact it was a small frame.


My Large came with the 100 mm as well. BD says the 120mm wasn't an option this time, whatever the hell that means. Every Sturgis/Train Bullet prior to this shipped with 120mm, including the frame/fork combo's.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

I need to do this, my pedal stroke has like a hop in it, assuming it's from the crank/BB.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

watermonkey said:


> My Large came with the 100 mm as well. BD says the 120mm wasn't an option this time, whatever the hell that means. Every Sturgis/Train Bullet prior to this shipped with 120mm, including the frame/fork combo's.


Still loving my 2015 Sturgis Bullet with 120mm Bluto and I have no plans of reducing it to 100mm!


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

^ Ditto :thumbsup:


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I had a Night Train from the very first batch. I tore it down to the frame upon unboxing. For some reason they put thread lock on the BB cups instead of grease. Even when brand new out of box the bb was hard to remove. My Race Face BB that I replaced it with installed normally with little t no resistance. So the bb shell was as chased correctly. Maybe yr Samox bb cups aren't that good either? It's been in a box since day one so I don't know.


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## cwalton (Jan 17, 2013)

My Large came with the 100 mm as well. BD says the 120mm wasn't an option this time, whatever the hell that means. Every Sturgis/Train Bullet prior to this shipped with 120mm, including the frame/fork combo's. 

Are interested in the 120mm? I would be happy to swap internals with someone. I don't like how high the front end is with the 120mm.


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## Croozer (Nov 18, 2015)

Any city riders mounted a kickstand?

I ride my bike in the city and I'm not about to lay it on the ground.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

Negotiator50 said:


> I replaced the 120 that came with my NTB with a 100. The front end was much easier to control, especially up hills. I'm guessing they found the same when designing the 2016 models.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


That is what I did with mine also. After one winter on my Sturgis Bullet set up 120mm I set mine up 100mm. It was too floppy while making slow climbs up snowy hills. It steers much quicker now also, which makes it much more fun to ride on trails in the other seasons.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Re: 120 vs 100 fork

One of the reasons I recently bought a Sturgis frameset vs the complete bike is to get the 120 fork. I have a very long inseem, so I prefer a higher stack height to get the handlebar height within a 1-2" drop from the saddle height. If I bought a 2016 complete, I would have upsized to the XL and compromised with the really long wheelbase, or I would have bought a large and purchased the 120mm air shaft separately to convert it. 

If you have a relatively short inseem, then the 100mm fork is probably the way to go. The headtube angle and bottom bracket height are a little more "normal" with the shorter fork, which is probably why they changed it for 2016.


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## strengthxcycle (Dec 15, 2012)

If anyone has a good deal on a 100mm bluto let me know I might be interested in buying one.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

strengthxcycle said:


> If anyone has a good deal on a 100mm bluto let me know I might be interested in buying one.


If yourea bit handy you can convert the 120mm for around $75.
I think there's info in the bluto tuning friend if you're interested


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

AL NTB came in yesterday! A very nice bike, I'm impressed! I went with 19" LG after a discussion with JPaul and others in the Ti thread. Also because the 17" were sold out. It fits me well, I think, and is a heck of a lot of bike compared to the Boris FX X9. My Boris is 17". When I first got it I thought it was too small, but cockpit adjustments made it comfortable and fast.

After putting the front wheel, rotor, and brake on the frame I go for a short ride, 2.5 miles or so. The stock cockpit is MUCH better for me than the stock Boris cockpit. The WTB Sport saddle is pretty bouncy, but better than the WTB saddle that came with the Boris. Little touches like the Motobecane 1-piece stem cap really sell the bike. This is clearly bikesdirect.com's flagship fat bike and it shows. It is also excellently adjusted compared to the Boris - ready to ride. The next adjustment I made was to move all my Boris cockpit elements over to the NTB. Much better.

The Vee Snowshoe XL tires make hilarious road noise compared to any of the previous fat bikes tires I've used: Vee8, Framed Minnesota Tires, and Mongoose Dolomite tires. I ride only about 100' through a sandy playground and bury the tops of the Bluto tubes with sand. They throw a LOT of sand! The rotation-facing edges of the nubs are basically 90 degrees. I might turn the front tire around for better traction in snow.










Fat stable ^^ Poor Dolomite is still in pieces on the garage floor.










First impressions compared to the Boris FS X9:

* Steeper head tube, slacker seat tube. I did not expect the seat tube to be slacker.
* Boris stock weight was ~37.5#, NTB stock weight without pedals is 35.4#.
Exactly what it says on the box:










Sad that it says it is a 2015 NTB but the parts list matches perfectly!

* The Mulefut rims are beautiful. My biggest peeve with the Boris is that the HL-80 seems to be one-step up from the Dolomite. 80mm, holes, single-walled. The Mulefuts have a great seam, great texture and profile. Excited to tubeless them!
* Novatech hubs now have stickers on them.
* Front hub is actually ~144mm and comes with two small removable spacers to fit the Bluto. Don't love that.
* 100mm Bluto. Compression is very noticably less than the Boris, and with the slacker head tube on the Boris I'm imagining it (the Boris) could be a much better downhill bike.
* Snowshoe XL tires are 4.1in wide, throw tons of sand, rolling resistance.
* 180mm rotors are not my favorite design
* Turbine Crank is beaauutiful. This is truly a top end component. Freehub
is very quiet and smooth, the chain is fancy-SRAM. The crank freespins for
multiple turns if spun backwards against the freehub.
* X7/X9 components actually seem a little low end for the rest of the bike 
* Branded FSA headset, adjusting it was very easy
* The shifters and Guide RS brakes are on the same mount clamp. I don't love
this because I like to set my shifters at different depths.

Only minor complaints: ugly rotors, terrible WTB friction grips (they are also short, I hate them), seatpost, saddle. That's it. Great bike. Not sure I love the large yet. I've got a lot of riding to comprehend handling, and our single track is closed until dry. 










As a bonus, here's my parts-list that contributed to me doing the upgrade.
Cost-to-buy through Amazon or other online retailers.

* Frame + Bluto : $700
* Brakes: $240
* Crank: $300
* Deraileurs/Shifters: $200
* BB/Chain/Cassette: $100
* Hubs: $200
* Wheels: $300
* Tires: $100
* Headset/Handlebar/Stem/Grips/Saddle/Seatpost: $150

cost: $2400


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

^^ Hey, nice bike! Ergo grips (Ergon GP3 for me) were a major score of an improvement. 

As I mentioned a few pages back, I was going to do a complete tear-down maintenance of my Bluto to see if I could prevent the leaking-seals-in-sub-zero-temps problem....

Here's what I discovered: sticky red grease all over inside the "air" side of the fork. So I cleaned that out and re-greased with Slick Honey grease. That *should* remedy the leaky seals in cold temps. I'll keep y'all posted on that as it gets colder.

I also discovered that my fork came over-filled with oil. And that would've reduced the travel. Check your oil if you have suspicions- that step is easy and can be done without taking the lowers off. Check the SRAM pdf if you'd like. The level should be 71-77mm below the fork crown. Mine was over that by at least 20mm! 

Anyways, now I'm set. Bring it, cold!


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

I should mention that 71-77 mm below crown is for 120 Bluto travel set-up. Refer to the SRAM Bluto/Reba pdf or manual if you have a 100 Bluto as it'll have a different spec


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

I recently traded my Boris for a rigid Nighttrain (new version with Mulefuts and X9 type 2 derailleur). Went OneUp 1x10, dropped the front shifter and derailleur and cable housing. Little surprised how heavy it feels compared to Boris. I have carbon handlebar and tubeless setup on the way, should lighten it up more. As is with Crank Brother candy pedals, about 35 pounds. Boris w same pedals (with Bud/Nate, carbon fork and upgraded seatpost) was 32 lb 12 oz. Frame finish is great, internal routing is slick but I had hoped to notice the slightly shorter chainstay length of Nighttrain (460 vs 467 advertised [no actual measurement], ~.25" shorter) vs Boris - feels about the same. Hoped Nighttrain was the answer, but even with upgrades on the way, I already feel like the China carbon frame (SN-01?) is my next step.


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## Nussy (Nov 27, 2015)

So I'm looking at the Sturgis Bullet and I see they have the current model for $1499 but they also have a 2015 model for $1199. Wondering if anyone has any opinion on whether the $300 is worth it to get the upgraded Mulfut 80s over Weinemans and Race Face crankset over Samox? Thanks


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Get the 15/16 model with mulefut and turbine cranks. Absolutely worth the premium. Mulefut snare worth $100 more per rim than Weinmann. And turbine crankset is in another league vs Samox cranks.

Turbine cranks will save about 1/2-2/3rd of a pound in weight over the Samox. 

The mulefut when setup tubeless will save you close to 4 pounds in rotational weight vs Weinmann dhl80 with stock tubes. Weinmanns can drop 1.5 of those pounds with lightweight tubes alone though.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I did a ton of research when looking for a new bike. One thing every LBS touted was the components that included the Race Face crank and Mulefut wheels. They specifically mentioned them as selling points. Many people on here have also had issues with the Samox and Weinmann's, albeit not bad issues, but the upgraded components are absolutely worth the extra. 

While I have not even received my NTB Ti yet, part of the reason for choosing it over many other models was the components that comes on it. The frame being Ti is an added benefit, and if it doesn't work out, I figure I can just transfer the components to another frame, recoup some of my money for the frame, and ride on.


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## Nussy (Nov 27, 2015)

Awesome. Thanks Guys....the new model it is!


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## cwalton (Jan 17, 2013)

I just bought a Sturgis from bikeisland for a discount and it came with the old stuff. I have no idea what the long-term difference will be, but a crankset is a crankset when it comes to performance. They both go round and round. 
The only reason I would pay the extra $300 if you absolutely planned to go tubeless because you need to run tubeless for flat protection. Other than that, save your money because weight is a non-issue for performance concerns. Fat bikers seem to obsess over weight and I just can't figure out why, unless it is just ignorance.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

cwalton said:


> I just bought a Sturgis from bikeisland for a discount and it came with the old stuff. I have no idea what the long-term difference will be, but a crankset is a crankset when it comes to performance. They both go round and round.
> 
> The only reason I would pay the extra $300 if you absolutely planned to go tubeless because you need to run tubeless for flat protection. Other than that, save your money because weight is a non-issue for performance concerns. Fat bikers seem to obsess over weight and I just can't figure out why, unless it is just ignorance.


Actually its ignorance having no clue what weight savings does for bike. About 100 different points could be made about each aspect using simple physics.

If you don't feel the need for a lighter bike that's on you, calling people ignorant for having a different preference and more knowledge than you is just ignorant in itself.


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## cwalton (Jan 17, 2013)

Please enlighten us with something other than the passed-down myths generated by the bike industry and professional racers or using the word 'feel."


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

I'm reading this enormous thread all the way through. I'm on page 40 of 143 at the moment.

I'm contemplating arguing with my wife over getting another bike am I'm looking at the basic Sturgis in Orange. Call me vain but I really like the look of the orange. This bike doesn't come with the Bluto which also keeps it under a $1000. The bike will mainly be for winter riding and slow rides with the kids. I intent to salvage a lot of 2014 SLX parts from another bike I don't ride anymore to improve the spec. I also have a 2x e13 crank that I'm seeing if I can get a 120mm axle for. The one thing I'm not sure about is the Bluto vs rigid fork.

I've read that you ready don't need the Bluto for winter riding. Has any bought the non bullet version and later regretted not having the Bluto?

Also is it stupid to buy a bike based on color? 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Buy one! Orange is cool. (So is gunmetal sparkly gray, hey).

And there's much to like about these bikes beyond the color. As to the Bluto, try rigid and see. You may get a jostled but then again you may never miss it. And doing without will save you weight... and money.


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## CDubz (Mar 25, 2008)

TheNormsk said:


> I'm reading this enormous thread all the way through. I'm on page 40 of 143 at the moment.
> 
> I'm contemplating arguing with my wife over getting another bike am I'm looking at the basic Sturgis in Orange. Call me vain but I really like the look of the orange. This bike doesn't come with the Bluto which also keeps it under a $1000. The bike will mainly be for winter riding and slow rides with the kids. I intent to salvage a lot of 2014 SLX parts from another bike I don't ride anymore to improve the spec. I also have a 2x e13 crank that I'm seeing if I can get a 120mm axle for. The one thing I'm not sure about is the Bluto vs rigid fork.
> 
> ...


Buy the Bluto version and the carbon fork, then sell the Bluto. Probably end up being even cheaper. That said the Bluto is great for non snow riding.


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## cwalton (Jan 17, 2013)

Color? Well, if you don't like the way a bike looks, why buy it? Now if I had to choose between an ugly but much better bike and a pretty but lower quality I would suck it up and ride the ugly bike. Otherwise, I would buy what I liked. 
I recently bought a 2nd fatbike and I wanted Bluto so now I have one rigid and one suspended (My son wanted to ride with me). The fat tires makes the difference between rigid and suspended less profound than with 2-inch tires but it is still there. The accumulated bumps add up on the rigid and especially the big drops, so I feel less beat up at the end of riding with the Bluto. Some rocky climbs are easier with the Bluto because it keeps its line better than rigid. Sandy descents are not that different, but rough stuff is always better with the shock as is hitting stuff hard at speed. On my Fatboy (rigid) I have to brace for big hits and take the jarring, but my Stugis will just roll right through them sometimes. 
If you asked my if I could trade my Fatboy straight across for the Stugis with Bluto, I would take that deal, but if you took away the Bluto, I would still have just as much fun riding; I would just feel it more at the end of the day.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

cwalton said:


> I just bought a Sturgis from bikeisland for a discount and it came with the old stuff. I have no idea what the long-term difference will be, but a crankset is a crankset when it comes to performance. They both go round and round.
> The only reason I would pay the extra $300 if you absolutely planned to go tubeless because you need to run tubeless for flat protection. Other than that, save your money because weight is a non-issue for performance concerns. Fat bikers seem to obsess over weight and I just can't figure out why, unless it is just ignorance.


My "Original run" Night Train (rigid) weighed 35.5lbs out of the box stock with no pedals. I now have it down to 27.4lbs with XT 788 trail pedals. That's over 9lbs saved. HUGE difference in my enjoyment in riding the bike. Riding the 35lb beast was a chore. Riding the 27lb bike is enjoyable. However, the only parts left from my original Night train is frame, headset, seat collar, rear derailleur, chain and tires.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

TheNormsk said:


> I'm reading this enormous thread all the way through. I'm on page 40 of 143 at the moment.
> 
> I'm contemplating arguing with my wife over getting another bike am I'm looking at the basic Sturgis in Orange. Call me vain but I really like the look of the orange. This bike doesn't come with the Bluto which also keeps it under a $1000. The bike will mainly be for winter riding and slow rides with the kids. I intent to salvage a lot of 2014 SLX parts from another bike I don't ride anymore to improve the spec. I also have a 2x e13 crank that I'm seeing if I can get a 120mm axle for. The one thing I'm not sure about is the Bluto vs rigid fork.
> 
> ...


I bought a rigid as this is my winter snow bike. I tried riding this bike in the summer. It was fun, but near impossible to keep up with my buddies for any length of time riding "skinny" 2.2" tire bikes... I have to pull out my summer bike in the summer and the fat bike stays in hibernation. But my summer bike is 22lbs, so the weight makes it so much faster and more enjoyable in the summer. So I don't regret buying a rigid Night Train.

Also, since the Bluto was so new at the time, I was banking on them having initial issues they would need to iron-out and I didn't want to be the guinea pig. I also figured there would be tonnes of other options a year later (not the case), and that prices would fall, or performance would rise. I was proven wrong on both fronts as there are no major Bluto issues out there, and there are no other major competitors in market either (e.g. Fox?).


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## cwalton (Jan 17, 2013)

I'm curious how riding one was a chore and the other enjoyable? When I tested a 10 pound difference using a power meter over a 10K hilly course, at the same wattage, the time changes was about 3-5 seconds which was well within the +/- for road surface/wind (given that I can't ride exactly the same place on two rides). 
Did you also change tires and remove the tubes? That can make a huge difference in rolling resistance which can affect the speed of the bike, much more than any change in weight.


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

:yikes: 

Someone pass the popcorn.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

cwalton said:


> I'm curious how riding one was a chore and the other enjoyable? When I tested a 10 pound difference using a power meter over a 10K hilly course, at the same wattage, the time changes was about 3-5 seconds which was well within the +/- for road surface/wind (given that I can't ride exactly the same place on two rides).
> Did you also change tires and remove the tubes? That can make a huge difference in rolling resistance which can affect the speed of the bike, much more than any change in weight.


Chore = cursing up all the hills, not be able to keep up with my buddies on skinny tire bikes, wanting to get back to the car, legs feeling sore the next day

Enjoyable = wanting to keep riding, not breathing way to hard to keep up with buddies.

I have no watt-meters, GPS devices, etc. I just go out and ride whenever I can. And every chance I get, I will lighten up my bike if I can afford to do so as long as it still maintains rideability, durability and serviceability.

To drop 9 pounds in a bike requires a change in everything (as I said, only thing original is frame, headset, seat collar, rear derailleur and original Snowshoe 4.5 tires). Carbon wheels, tubeless. This was the single biggest change as one would expect. The carbon fork and bar made the steering a lot lighter, and pulling up over obstacles was noticeably easier (stock aluminum/steel fork is 1450g...vs. carbon fork of 650g...stock bar is about 300g if I remember...replaced with a 120g carbon bar. So I lightened up the front end by ~900-950g which made riding over obstacles more enjoyable). The carbon post and race face cranks were just bling and static weight savings to impress myself (and others)


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## cwalton (Jan 17, 2013)

Ok, well, I'm not really directing this as you per se, but here is yet another article about the effect of weight.

Bike Weight and the Myth of Fast Bikes - usatriathlon.org

Here is the gyst:

Because the weight-to-power savings ratio is linear, we should expect that one-to-one relationship.

The implication is a bitter pill, though. If you want to reduce the power requirement by 1 percent, you have to reduce the total mass that's moving up the hill by 1 percent. And because you're moving both your body and the bike up the hill, a measly 1 percent equates to a whole lot of grams before you see returns on your carbon investment!

(Me) In practical terms, let's say your bike and rider were 200 pounds and you wanted to be faster by say 10 percent. It would require you to drop 20 pounds of total bike/rider weight to achieve that.

Now, I have no idea how much you weigh, but let's again say that your are at our 200 pound bike/rider weight. Your nine pounds of reduction resulted in a 4.5 percent reduction in wattage going up hills. If you average 175 watts for a ride that means you reduced the required wattage by about 7 watts. And that is only on the uphills. If you finished at the same spot then you probably didn't change your wattage at all. People seem to think that light wheels are faster because they accelerate better, but they ignore the fact that heavy wheels decelerate slower thus evening things out. The weight advantage only works if you finish at the top of the hill.

I'm just guessing, but I would be willing to bet what really happened was that over the course of time, you continued to lighten your bike and continued to ride with your buddies. You probably reduced the rolling resistance of your tires along the way. Your increased fitness and reduced rolling resistance now allowed you to keep up with your buddies/climb faster. I would also bet that if you took the same bike right now and added the nine pounds back in, that you would still be able to keep up with your buddies.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

cwalton said:


> Ok, well, I'm not really directing this as you per se, but here is yet another article about the effect of weight.
> 
> Bike Weight and the Myth of Fast Bikes - usatriathlon.org
> 
> ...


Could you stop with this crap? Weight arguments always go on forever and the outcome is always someone posting the science behind weight, someone else saying 'I don't care- I can feel it and of something being light makes my ride more enjoyable, then I'll pay for it' until everyone gets fed up and the conversation stops.

If you want a weight thread go search one of the 10000 threads on it on MTBR, and other bike sites. Or make your own new thread. But stop shi&%$# on this one.

By the way, one advantage to the race face crank is the narrower Q factor. For short riders this can matter quite a bit.


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## cwalton (Jan 17, 2013)

Well, that is rather narrow-sighted since this thread brings up weight just as much as any other thread on mtbr. The question for which I offered my opinion was about why the person should buy a certain bike. As always, someone brought up the weight issue and I responded to debunk it. People on mtbr discuss bike weight more than any other site I have seen. It is ingrained in the industry.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

Well I ordered something for the sturgis, a sort of impulse buy now that I think about it...

PAIR of 27 PLUS FatBike WTB TCS Tubeless Compatible Wheels + FREE Tires: VeeRubber TraxFatty 27.5x3.25 inch

A pair of 27.5 plus rims and tires. At $249 it seemed just too good to pass up. I figured 3.25" would be good for summer riding while still maintaining fat riding qualities. We shall see. I will post pics when I get them.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

tigris99 said:


> Actually its ignorance having no clue what weight savings does for bike. About 100 different points could be made about each aspect using simple physics.
> 
> If you don't feel the need for a lighter bike that's on you, calling people ignorant for having a different preference and more knowledge than you is just ignorant in itself.


^^^. Truth right there ^^^

Weight make a huge difference on any bike, I notice a 3 pound difference on my road bikes and something like 9 pounds is significant on any bike.

But in addition to weight, bias makes a big difference. My 37 pound Pugsley is hell and gone compared to even a 35 pound WO, I know because I've ridden them both. The WO is much lighter up front and easier to huck around the trail whereas the Pugsley is more of a tractor that bashes through stuff. Rotational mass is another variable, which is why people switch to lighter wheels and tires.

Anyone who can't comprehend such a basic elementary structure as this is better off walking.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

Yeah can we please talk about the rad NTB post I made a page back?


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

AthleticAL said:


> ^^ Hey, nice bike! Ergo grips (Ergon GP3 for me) were a major score of an improvement.


Thanks dude! I use Origin8 pulsion lockrings, though the grippy bits seem to last only a few hundred miles.

Got any youtube vids on fork maintenance? I know next to nothing about it.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

thomcom said:


> Thanks dude! I use Origin8 pulsion lockrings, though the grippy bits seem to last only a few hundred miles.
> 
> Got any youtube vids on fork maintenance? I know next to nothing about it.


 No videos, but I would be surprised if there aren't some out there. If you are a DIY type, the service manual is pretty good.

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...en.0000000004694_rev_a_2015_bluto_reba_sm.pdf

This was my first time ever digging into a fork myself and that thing made the project possible. Before yesterday, I was next to clueless as to what was _really_ inside.

I tested out my handiwork today in 20* temps. I went with a slightly lighter oil than the stock 5w. So far, so sweet! But the difference between above 0 and below 0 operation is a mighty big gap... but I'll eventually see how it reacts to the REAL cold...


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Quick question. I'm building a Sturgis frame and was wondering if the rear shifter housing exits the higher (closest to the head tube) or lower port at the bottom of the downtube? Also, I'm assuming the rear shifter housing uses the little plastic clamp that is bolted to the bottom bracket, correct?


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

OhioPT said:


> Quick question. I'm building a Sturgis frame and was wondering if the rear shifter housing exits the higher (closest to the head tube) or lower port at the bottom of the downtube? Also, I'm assuming the rear shifter housing uses the little plastic clamp that is bolted to the bottom bracket, correct?












Far port goes to rear der. Near port goes up the middle behind the seat tube to front der.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks Thomcom!


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Well I pulled the trigger on a Sturgis Bullet in white. I like the white color as well (over the orange) and decided the Bluto with the RaceFace crank was probably a better option than the Samox crank on the standard Sturgis.

I intend to swap out a lot of parts on a 26er hard tail that I never ride anymore then sell that bike. SLX brakes, shifters, mech, Thompson post, WTB Ti saddle, Syntax stem/bars and time ATAC flatties. I will also convert to tubeless as soon as I can. One thing I don't know about is the front mech. My current one is not compatible so can a SLX 2x shifter pull a X7 front mech?

Now I just have to wait for it to turn up. There's lots of snow around us at the moment so I can't wait!


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

TheNormsk said:


> Well I pulled the trigger on a Sturgis Bullet in white. I like the white color as well (over the orange) and decided the Bluto with the RaceFace crank was probably a better option than the Samox crank on the standard Sturgis.
> 
> I intend to swap out a lot of parts on a 26er hard tail that I never ride anymore then sell that bike. SLX brakes, shifters, mech, Thompson post, WTB Ti saddle, Syntax stem/bars and time ATAC flatties. I will also convert to tubeless as soon as I can. One thing I don't know about is the front mech. My current one is not compatible so can a SLX 2x shifter pull a X7 front mech?
> 
> Now I just have to wait for it to turn up. There's lots of snow around us at the moment so I can't wait!


Maybe you should try riding it first before doing all the upgrades? My orange Sturgis worked pretty good right out of the box. I did change the stem and bars though.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

I did not ride my sturgis in Stock form because I had mostly carbon parts already to put on and wanted to sell or reuse the parts I took off. I knew that the parts work but are heavy. better for a commuter project I am building.
except for the mulefut rims not sealing tubeless very well it's all ok for the price.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

TheNormsk said:


> I also have a 2x e13 crank that I'm seeing if I can get a 120mm axle for.


 I've already spoken with them and the answer is no, you cannot change the axle.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

TheNormsk said:


> My current one is not compatible so can a SLX 2x shifter pull a X7 front mech?


 It's not likely to work, as Shimano and SRAM shifters have different cable pull specs.


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## thenry (Jun 1, 2008)

One thing I don't know about is the front mech. My current one is not compatible so can a SLX 2x shifter pull a X7 front mech?

Front Der should be fine just need to have limit screws adjusted properly. I have used SRAM xo shifter on a shimano xtr front Der. Rear derailleur on the other hand no dice. They have different cable pull per click


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I build EVERYTHING with Sram shifters and Shimano FRONT derailleurs. X7 and X9 control XT and SLX perfectly. 
I've never done it the other way around, but I would have to think if it works one way, it should work the other.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

byron555 said:


> Maybe you should try riding it first before doing all the upgrades? My orange Sturgis worked pretty good right out of the box. I did change the stem and bars though.


Well I already have the parts and I'm a Shimano guy. Been riding Shimano for 20+ years. Probably won't change now and my bar/stem and saddle/post combo are way better than stock...


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

TheNormsk said:


> Well I already have the parts and I'm a Shimano guy. Been riding Shimano for 20+ years. Probably won't change now and my bar/stem and saddle/post combo are way better than stock...


Having the parts is a great reason, as if a reason is needed! For the record though, I was a shimano guy for 26 years (starting with my first mtb, a Ross Mt Hood in 1987)...always had great luck with shimano, then got a bike with SRAM and it's been just as solid. In my experience, nothing to fear! Though it did take few days to get used to the thumb-thumb shift.


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## mcgurme (Apr 15, 2007)

Night Train Rigid Purple on its way! My first fat bike. I've been mountain biking since '84, but was avoiding fat bikes as a trend. Then I woke up and realized that riding in winter on the snow might be fun.

So, I somehow waded through almost this whole thread. Phew 

I've never ordered from BD before.. So far so good, but the bike is not here yet. The closest I've come to mail order was a build up for my partner of an orange Nashbar frame as an Xtracycle cargo hauler, years ago.

I used to do lots of wrenching, I'm kinda excited to get back to it (just a bit).

Oh, and am I the only grrrl posting on this thread?




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

NYrr496 said:


> I build EVERYTHING with Sram shifters and Shimano FRONT derailleurs. X7 and X9 control XT and SLX perfectly. I've never done it the other way around, but I would have to think if it works one way, it should work the other.


 I guess I stand corrected, though I don't understand why anyone would intentionally do this, when SRAM front derailleurs work every bit as well as Shimano. They tend to be cheaper, too.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

Front derailleurs are all about the same... They don't have the precision that a rear does due to the huge changes in teeth and in design and all cranks have a general spacing. In the front you can pretty much use whatever combo of shimano/sram (and maybe even campy) you want. The rear is a totally different beast, even if the cassette is the same. Different pull leverages, 1 click on shimano might be the equivalent to 1.25 clicks on sram... whatever, for the rear it does not work!


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

I use Campy shifters with SRAM front derailleurs on 'cross/gravel bikes and they work great (Campy doesn't make a front derailleur that will work well on MTB-sized chainrings). The difference is that Campy front shifters have several detents (clicks) rather than just one like Shimano and SRAM, so they don't require any real precision to work with any front derailleur. My concern was that the difference in the single detent between the two "S" brands might be enough to cause a problem. Apparently that's not the case, which is good to know.


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

mcgurme said:


> Night Train Rigid Purple on its way! My first fat bike. I've been mountain biking since '84, but was avoiding fat bikes as a trend. Then I woke up and realized that riding in winter on the snow might be fun.
> 
> So, I somehow waded through almost this whole thread. Phew
> 
> ...


Then you will love the NT. I have a first gen Sturgis and replaced practically everything on it over the year I've had it. It's a rewarding bike to work on (and change) but I guess most are 

BTW, have we run into each other on the trails here in Boise? I ride a white MB sturgis/my wife a white Mukluk.


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## mcgurme (Apr 15, 2007)

Hey bwilson... Yep, I'm excited about "upgrading" this bike. Tubeless is one of the first changes I plan among many  it sounds like if I can get the bead broken and the SunRingle tape, then the conversion is easy peasy.

I live and so ride near the southeast foothills. I don't recall meeting you on the trails, but I'm usually pretty "in my on zone" when biking. I have been riding my skinny-tire Specialized AWOL on some of the trails this year. So if you've seen a lady on a drop bar skinny bike up on Fat Tire Traverse, that just might have been me  or my silver colored Titus 29er... I also spend lots o' time in Mccall. My fave!




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

*Motobecane Sturgis - Green (2016 Model)*

I got my Sturgis about a week ago and have loved it. I've assembled 4 Bikes Direct Fat bikes now - A Monster, a Monster Pro, a Boris x7, and now this.

This is by far the best experience. You can tell BD really truly starts to care about each and every part that goes on these bikes once you get above 1000$. The wheels, bottom bracket, headset, brakes, and TIRES are muuuuch better than almost all of their sub-1000 bikes. The cheaper bikes are still excellent value (and my wife rides an x7), but you really do get what you pay for (and then some in BD).

I switched out the SnowShoe 4.5's to Bud/Lou a few days ago - Black Friday deal from LBS. I miss the low rolling resistance of the SnowShoes, but the Bud/Lou are amazing in mud/loose rock, and will be great once we get snow that stays here in Michigan. Note - It is a royal PITA to change tires/tubes on a tubeless compatible rimset, my hands are still recovering. I know I should be tubeless but I don't like the fuss.

I've been very impressed with the build and ride quality thus far. Wish I had started with the Sturgis.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

jerrduford said:


> I got my Sturgis about a week ago and have loved it. I've assembled 4 Bikes Direct Fat bikes now - A Monster, a Monster Pro, a Boris x7, and now this.
> 
> This is by far the best experience. You can tell BD really truly starts to care about each and every part that goes on these bikes once you get above 1000$. The wheels, bottom bracket, headset, brakes, and TIRES are muuuuch better than almost all of their sub-1000 bikes. The cheaper bikes are still excellent value (and my wife rides an x7), but you really do get what you pay for (and then some in BD).


I agree with this. I upgraded from an FB4, and mirror your sentiments exactly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

jerrduford said:


> I got my Sturgis about a week ago and have loved it. I've assembled 4 Bikes Direct Fat bikes now - A Monster, a Monster Pro, a Boris x7, and now this.
> 
> This is by far the best experience. You can tell BD really truly starts to care about each and every part that goes on these bikes once you get above 1000$. The wheels, bottom bracket, headset, brakes, and TIRES are muuuuch better than almost all of their sub-1000 bikes. The cheaper bikes are still excellent value (and my wife rides an x7), but you really do get what you pay for (and then some in BD).
> 
> ...


Agree 100%, my Bullseye monster was great for the $$, and the sturgis (I have the orange rigid) has been unbelievably great. I am glad I upgraded, and wish I would have started with the sturgis as well... But it did not come with the Mulefut rims at that time. With the Mulefut rims, this bike is probably the best buy in fat bikes available right now.


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

WhiskeyJr said:


> I agree with this. I upgraded from an FB4, and mirror your sentiments exactly.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





byron555 said:


> Agree 100%, my Bullseye monster was great for the $$, and the sturgis (I have the orange rigid) has been unbelievably great. I am glad I upgraded, and wish I would have started with the sturgis as well... But it did not come with the Mulefut rims at that time. With the Mulefut rims, this bike is probably the best buy in fat bikes available right now.


Glad to see it's not just me and everyone loves these bikes! I actually had a guy stop me yesterday whom was on what I assumed was an entry-level FatBoy. He wanted my opinion on the Bud/Lou (this on a dry day - I was on easy gravel at the time). We ended up talking about and comparing our bikes a bit (wish I had taken pictures but we never stopped moving to chat), and he was a little envious of the paintjob of my Sturgis, as well as the fact that I paid half what he did.

This is a major win in my book!


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Ordered an orange Sturgis rigid for my kid on Friday. Any guesses on when I'll see it? 

He does not know about it. He's been riding a ss Kona jumping bike or a ss Surley Rat Ride with 24" marge lights and slicks. He's 14 and I intend for this bike to last for many years so it should be a good investment. 

He's going to lose his mind when he finds out.....


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

Jeff_G said:


> Ordered an orange Sturgis rigid for my kid on Friday. Any guesses on when I'll see it?
> 
> He does not know about it. He's been riding a ss Kona jumping bike or a ss Surley Rat Ride with 24" marge lights and slicks. He's 14 and I intend for this bike to last for many years so it should be a good investment.
> 
> He's going to lose his mind when he finds out.....


Grats on purchase! I'm sure you and your son will both be very happy with the bike.
All 4 BD fat bikes I've ordered (none on back order) have arrived in about 4 business days average. Usually takes 1-2 days for it to ship, then 2-3 days to arrive.

I'm in Michigan, and they ship from TX. You may see faster depending on location and their availability


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

jerrduford said:


> Grats on purchase! I'm sure you and your son will both be very happy with the bike.
> All 4 BD fat bikes I've ordered (none on back order) have arrived in about 4 business days average. Usually takes 1-2 days for it to ship, then 2-3 days to arrive.
> 
> I'm in Michigan, and they ship from TX. You may see faster depending on location and their availability


I think I'll be happy because he and I will be able to increase our pace which is a bit slow at the moment and I don't have to listen to him ask if he can ride my Farley every 17 minutes.


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

Jeff_G said:


> I think I'll be happy because he and I will be able to increase our pace which is a bit slow at the moment and I don't have to listen to him ask if he can ride my Farley every 17 minutes.


Hopefully the pace does pick up, but I've found that buying a new bike in hopes of that is pretty counter-productive, especially when it's fat 
Think of the additional PLACES you can ride, and that you guys can enjoy it together year-round!


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

There are a lot of hills where we ride so he literally has to walk the ss up many of them. Neither of his bikes is ridable in the winter so that's certainly a plus with the Sturgis


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Anyone ride with a frame bag with their Sturgis? I'd like to dump my pack for the winter and have a frame bag that works well for clothes and hydration reservoir (ideally have an internal pocket for a 100oz bladder). I'll like to use a Source D|vide reservoir as I have one spare and it really doesn't work well in my Osprey so I'd like to dedicate it to Winter duties.

Any recommendations for a frame bag that may work with such reservoirs?

My Sturgis is a medium (17.5") BTW.


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

I use a large ibera frame bag in medium night train, great fit and it was like $15 on Amazon. Could maybe fit a size larger but probably not. Quality for the value is great. You lose use of inner triangle bolts (like for bottle cage) but sounds like that's good for your intentions.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Tips-Up, does the Ibera bag have a way for hanging/supporting a reservoir from the front top corner?


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

There are two compartments inside and I use the top one for my water bladder.


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## Jasonconnell (Nov 30, 2015)

*Thanks!*

This forum was a great help in deciding what FB to purchase, thanks all! I received a L Sturgis Bullet last week and have been loving it. I took it down to Mt Rainier yesterday and had highway 410 all to myself!

I will be swapping out the Bluto with a carbon fork for the Winter. I have a couple other quick mods to do and I'll be ready to race her in Jay P's Backyard pursuit in January.


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## ryankshaw (Nov 18, 2014)

Tips-Up said:


> View attachment 1032438


Nice looking setup! what front chainring/big rear ring are you using for your 1x conversion? I'm thinking of doing the same


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

OneUp 42t+16 rear and OneUp NW 30t front. About $120 from Jenson with activejunky cashback. The new Night Train/Sturgis with SRAM type 2 rear derailleurs make it very easy to set up and it seems to work better the more I use it. I do not miss the highest gear or 2 (whatever it is on the gear calculator), especially on the fat bike. And I really do not miss the front shifter, derailleaur and cable!


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## ryankshaw (Nov 18, 2014)

cool thanks for the info.

one question:



Tips-Up said:


> The new Night Train/Sturgis with SRAM type 2 rear derailleurs make it very easy to set up and it seems to work better


I got my sturgis last year around this time so I am assuming it has whatever the "old" derailleur was, do you think it will work as well on my bike?


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

Yeah. If it is SRAM type 2 or Shimano Shadow+, there's extra spring tension on the rear derailleur and, if used with a narrow wide front chainring, should be an easy 1x setup.

If it's not type 2 or +, it should work the same but you may need a chain retention device.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Tips-Up said:


> OneUp 42t+16 rear and OneUp NW 30t front. About $120 from Jenson with activejunky cashback. The new Night Train/Sturgis with SRAM type 2 rear derailleurs make it very easy to set up and it seems to work better the more I use it. I do not miss the highest gear or 2 (whatever it is on the gear calculator), especially on the fat bike. And I really do not miss the front shifter, derailleaur and cable!


Here's my 1x10 set-up on my small Orange Sturgis Bullet. 30T NW chainring and 42T MTS expanded cog on SRAM PG1070 10spd cassette (17T removed). My RD is SRAM X9 long cage but not the Type 2.


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Ummm HELP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

How bad did I screw up and can I fix it? Ordered a Sturgis, it has not shipped. Supposed to be a budget bike for my kid to ride 365 days a year. (winter) Spent more than I should have but.......

I did not notice the Bluto version is only $100 more. Should I try to cancel and get the bullet version quick?


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

Jeff_G said:


> Ummm HELP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> How bad did I screw up and can I fix it? Ordered a Sturgis, it has not shipped. Supposed to be a budget bike for my kid to ride 365 days a year. Spent more than I should have but.......
> 
> I did not notice the Bluto version is only $100 more. Should I try to cancel and get the bullet version quick?


yes


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

myette10 said:


> yes


Yes.

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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Jeff_G said:


> Ummm HELP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> How bad did I screw up and can I fix it? Ordered a Sturgis, it has not shipped. Supposed to be a budget bike for my kid to ride 365 days a year. (winter) Spent more than I should have but.......
> 
> I did not notice the Bluto version is only $100 more. Should I try to cancel and get the bullet version quick?


I thought the sturgis bluto version was $400 more ($1500 vs $1100)?


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

dayooper said:


> I thought the sturgis bluto version was $400 more ($1500 vs $1100)?


I used the Google and must have clicked on an old link. 
You are correct. Never mind.......

Freaked out for a minute there.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Jeff_G pm-d me to reply to this thread - 

The old link has 2015 Sturgis Bullet on special sale. No Mulefut or Raceface cranks.
So depending upon priorities, it might be a better deal for you.
We only have a few left in 15.5 White if you would like
However, if the first order has shipped - there are return policies that apply


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Thanks. Not sure I'm smart enough at this point to make an educated decision. But, I believe the Mulefuts are the way to go and he is 14 so he can live without a bluto. 

I'll go with the 2016 Orange 15.5 Sturgis rigid for the win Alex.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

For smaller younger riders a rigid fatbike probably does make more sense

Mulefut Wheels converted to tubeless lightens the bike by at least 3 lbs plus a bit lower static standover height with the rigid fork.

Ride Happy


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

Need some info please. I have been reading this thread and looking on the bikesdirect website for some time. Right now I have a Framed Minnesota 3.0. I really want to get a new frame and wheel set. I want the 197mm x 12mm rear. The Minnesota has QR in the back. I am looking at the 2016 Bullet with Bluto combo. I will have enough parts to build the frame with bluto if I get a wheel set this way I will have a complete Minnesota 3.0 to sell. I am looking at rims, and hubs. I am set on the DT Swiss hubs (have them on my Fuel and they are great so far) what would be a good rim ? 

Also for anyone that has had a Framed and Motobecane how would you say the frame compares to each other ? The same, Motobecane better , Framed better ? Dont really want to go through all this work only to get a Motobecane and not be happy with the frame. 

Any help to push me over the edge and get the Motobecane go for it !!!!


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

Can anyone give me the weight of the Mulefut wheels Without tires / tubes.... rims / spokes / hubs front and rear ? Thanks.

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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

If you have a Specialized store with a Fatboy then you could have some frame of reference to compare the Framed frame? (no puns intended LOL )
This video compares the Specialized Fat Boy frame to the Motobecane Sturgis/NightTrain fat bikes. 







Steve Javorsky said:


> Need some info please. I have been reading this thread and looking on the bikesdirect website for some time. Right now I have a Framed Minnesota 3.0. I really want to get a new frame and wheel set. I want the 197mm x 12mm rear. The Minnesota has QR in the back. I am looking at the 2016 Bullet with Bluto combo. I will have enough parts to build the frame with bluto if I get a wheel set this way I will have a complete Minnesota 3.0 to sell. I am looking at rims, and hubs. I am set on the DT Swiss hubs (have them on my Fuel and they are great so far) what would be a good rim ?
> 
> Also for anyone that has had a Framed and Motobecane how would you say the frame compares to each other ? The same, Motobecane better , Framed better ? Dont really want to go through all this work only to get a Motobecane and not be happy with the frame.
> 
> Any help to push me over the edge and get the Motobecane go for it !!!!


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Good point Joe. I did this, and I'll add, for what it's worth, that my LBS threw the 2015 Fatboy with carbon fork up on the scale and it came in at 33.0 lb, with pedals.


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks guys, my real question is the quality? I can see the listed size / specs.... I just don't want to do all this and have it be a POS.... wishing I had my Minnesota 3.0 back.

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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Interesting video. I was a little surprised the comparison did not have the weight of each frame. I admittedly haven't read all 2,921 posts but what does a 2016 Sturgis rigid weigh? I'll have one on Friday but curious.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Steve Javorsky said:


> Thanks guys, my real question is the quality? I can see the listed size / specs.... I just don't want to do all this and have it be a POS.... wishing I had my Minnesota 3.0 back.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


Based on my reading (much of which you've probably seen), the frames you're considering are all quality. The mulefut rims are obviously well-regarded, and I haven't come across anything stating the Framed rims have quality issues, other than some difficulty making them tubeless (it does not sound like they're TR like the Mulefuts).


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

My opinion is that none of these fatbikes are POS. Framed, Motobecane, Gravity, Mongoose, Surly etc.
They all have slightly different features and prices.

I am hoping someone who has a Minn and a Moto can chime in here - a video comparo would be awesome 

I feel this is a fair and honest question - 
The Motobecane Sturgis/Nighttrain frame is made by Kinesis who is one of the largest frame mfgs in the world of high end bikes.

Anyone know what factory makes the Framed fat bike frames?


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Jeff_G said:


> Interesting video. I was a little surprised the comparison did not have the weight of each frame. I admittedly haven't read all 2,921 posts but what does a 2016 Sturgis rigid weigh? I'll have one on Friday but curious.


I did, and it's back on page 43, about halfway down. 2015 model, but don't think anything changed to 2016 on the frame. Sounds like the frame is 5.0 lb, and the aluminum fork is a rather heavy 3.1 lb. The video I had watched on the BD website did show a weight comparison with the Fatboy, with the Specialized being roughly half a pound lighter or so.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Jeff_G said:


> Interesting video. I was a little surprised the comparison did not have the weight of each frame. I admittedly haven't read all 2,921 posts but what does a 2016 Sturgis rigid weigh? I'll have one on Friday but curious.


The video comparison does have weight diffs of frames  see this link


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

I believe my rigid Night Train was about 35 pounds before I started modifying - a little more portly than I hoped.
The Motobecane Night Train aluminum handlebar weight is 380 g. Just swapped out for 3T carbon bar last night at 220 g, plus it doesn't pass along the cold to my hands, it's stiffer and wider. The last upgrades (for now) will be setting up Bud and Lou tubeless and swapping in a carbon fork, then I'll get a final weight (guessing 30#).


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

joebikesdirect said:


> The video comparison does have weight diffs of frames  see this link


Thanks, must have missed it.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

Steve Javorsky said:


> Thanks guys, my real question is the quality? I can see the listed size / specs.... I just don't want to do all this and have it be a POS.... wishing I had my Minnesota 3.0 back.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


Hey Steve, I have a 2014 Minnesota 2.0 and a 2016 Night Train Bullet. I'm not really sure what to say, though. The NTB has nicer welds all around than the Minnesota frame, super smooth at almost every pipe join. The Minnesota frame is probably a little lighter and weaker than the NTB frame - it sounds hollower and feels more like a soda can to the touch. The NTB also has a better interior-triangle mounting point for the rear brake, with the cool not-quite-triangle shape, and the 12mm thru-axle rear, which is a big feature to me.

The Minnesota is a nice bike, and so is the NTB. The NTB is technologically more advanced than the Minnesota is, to be sure. That's about all I got, I don't have much opinion re: frames.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

If we were talking about complete bicycles I think I'd recommend the Night Train - the Mulfuts really make the bike. Framed tires are a little nicer than the Snowshoe XLs, but the Mulfuts are better than the Framed wheelset.


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

thomcom said:


> Hey Steve, I have a 2014 Minnesota 2.0 and a 2016 Night Train Bullet. I'm not really sure what to say, though. The NTB has nicer welds all around than the Minnesota frame, super smooth at almost every pipe join. The Minnesota frame is probably a little lighter and weaker than the NTB frame - it sounds hollower and feels more like a soda can to the touch. The NTB also has a better interior-triangle mounting point for the rear brake, with the cool not-quite-triangle shape, and the 12mm thru-axle rear, which is a big feature to me.
> 
> The Minnesota is a nice bike, and so is the NTB. The NTB is technologically more advanced than the Minnesota is, to be sure. That's about all I got, I don't have much opinion re: frames.


This is the kind of info I am wanting to hear.. Thanks. Looks like I need to place my order !!!!

If the frame is in stock how long should it take to get ? 1 week 2 weeks.

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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

I have everything but wheels to build from frame up ( and that's the idea as I want the 197mm x 12mm thru axle) so I will buy the frame with bluto and build a wheel set / sell my old Minnesota 3.0 ( already sold) put all my own parts on new frame with bluto.. 

So building up new wheels... mulefuts or go with something else ? Think I will be using the DT Swiss hubs.

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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

There is a slight difference between the 2015 and 2016 Sturgis frame. I have a 2015 and a friend of mine just got her 2016. On our last ride I bent the derailleur hanger and stupidly forgot to put the spare in my pack. However she did have a spare with her for her bike and since we both have the Sturgis Bullet except hers is a year new I assume they would share the same hanger but no. The hanger for my medium (17.5") SB uses 1 bolt to mount it on to the frame but her small (15.5") uses two so the difference is in the derailleur hanger. Other than the extra hump for the extra hole for the extra bolt the hanger looks identical. Meaning it looks like I can use my hanger (with one bolt/hanger #28) will fit on her frame but her hanger with the extra feature won't fit on mine. I don't know if the size of the frame was the difference in the hanger design or it's a new design feature across the 2016 line up.


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

I ordered my Sturgis at about 2:00pm on Friday and it shipped yesterday. UPS says I'll get it Friday.


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

Jeff_G said:


> I ordered my Sturgis at about 2:00pm on Friday and it shipped yesterday. UPS says I'll get it Friday.


Ok, that's awesome. I am really thinking that this will be the way to go.... might place my order at lunch time today. Crazy because all I really want to change for is a fat bike with thru axles front and rear.... crazy how we get hung up on the simple things....this will be the cheapest and best way to do it !!!! Now I am really getting excited about ordering it frame setup.

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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

thomcom said:


> If we were talking about complete bicycles I think I'd recommend the Night Train - the Mulfuts really make the bike. Framed tires are a little nicer than the Snowshoe XLs, but the Mulfuts are better than the Framed wheelset.


So these are shipping with the snowshoe XLs, not just the snowshoe?


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

Hello everyone - I just picked up a 2nd-hand Sturgis Bullet This has the stock SAMOX crankset which appears to be around 230mm Q-factor. They had removed the front derailleur and put a 30t Raceface narrow wide ring on. I'd considered a few options:
I have a SRAM X5 crank (178 Q-factor) which clears the frame. I could go single on that crank with a 30t as the outer ring and be careful about not hitting my heal on the frame. This seemed okay when sitting on it in the garage. No way the X5 would work as a double - chain went straight into the Surly 4.8 tire.

What I'm planning to do is replace the derailleur and just put a couple FSA chainrings on the SAMOX crank since the shimano / sram chainrings I have laying around have all types of grooves to make them work only on their cranks. $40 will get me a 22 and 36t chainring from ebay.

Before I go through with that, I was wondering if there are better options for a new crank. Would it be worth just paying $150 for an FSA Comet 22/36 and take the Q-factor down to around ~210 ? Or has anyone done this without chain-line issues in the granny gear? I'm assuming 1cm on each side would help in terms of comfort / efficiency. The FSA looks like a better bang for the buck compared to $300+ cranks.
-Just not sure how narrow you can really go with a 4.8 tire and 2x up front. (This will be my snow bike so I'd really prefer to have the low range of a 22t chainring).


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Tips-Up said:


> I believe my rigid Night Train was about 35 pounds before I started modifying - a little more portly than I hoped.
> The Motobecane Night Train aluminum handlebar weight is 380 g. Just swapped out for 3T carbon bar last night at 220 g, plus it doesn't pass along the cold to my hands, it's stiffer and wider. The last upgrades (for now) will be setting up Bud and Lou tubeless and swapping in a carbon fork, then I'll get a final weight (guessing 30#).


I am new to bikes so I don't have a lot of context but......

My $2500 (with tax) Farley weighs 31 pounds with cheap pedals. (bathroom scale) It seems an $1,100 bike weighing 35 pounds is a reasonable?


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Jeff_G said:


> I ordered my Sturgis at about 2:00pm on Friday and it shipped yesterday. UPS says I'll get it Friday.


I hope you get it. Mine was shipped Monday and UPS said it would be delivered today. However it did not leave TX until 3:30pm yesterday and it had a 16 hour drive ahead of it - even though it still said it was on-time. I didn't believe it. Now this morning I get notification that it will be delayed as UPS was "unable to dispatch the trailer on-time" so I guess I was right. Hopefully it will turn up tomorrow. That would still be only 3 days for shipping so I can't complain. The BikesDirect turnaround was fantastic so my only really complaint is to UPS for giving me an unrealistic ETA in the first place. If they had just stated three days and not two in the first place I would have been quite happy with that....


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Steve Javorsky said:


> Can anyone give me the weight of the Mulefut wheels Without tires / tubes.... rims / spokes / hubs front and rear ? Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


I'll let you know when I get home tonight. I weighed everything in my frame-up build I just completed on Saturday.


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

TheNormsk said:


> I hope you get it. Mine was shipped Monday and UPS said it would be delivered today. However it did not leave TX until 3:30pm yesterday and it had a 16 hour drive ahead of it - even though it still said it was on-time. I didn't believe it. Now this morning I get notification that it will be delayed as UPS was "unable to dispatch the trailer on-time" so I guess I was right. Hopefully it will turn up tomorrow. That would still be only 3 days for shipping so I can't complain. The BikesDirect turnaround was fantastic so my only really complaint is to UPS for giving me an unrealistic ETA in the first place. If they had just stated three days and not two in the first place I would have been quite happy with that....


I ship 1,000 UPS packages a day. They have a 99.8% on time percentage. Probably a bit lower the week after Black Friday, Cyber Monday, Small Business Saturday and whatever other marketing schemes are going on.

Today is not your lucky day and you are the .2%.


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

So do the bikes come a regular UPS truck or bigger one ? And you have to be there to sign for it right ? This is always an issue for me... but can make it work.

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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

TheNormsk said:


> Now this morning I get notification that it will be delayed as UPS was "unable to dispatch the trailer on-time" so I guess I was right. Hopefully it will turn up tomorrow. That would still be only 3 days for shipping so I can't complain. The BikesDirect turnaround was fantastic so my only really complaint is to UPS for giving me an unrealistic ETA in the first place. If they had just stated three days and not two in the first place I would have been quite happy with that....


UPS did the same thing to me.

Mine was supposed to be delivered on Monday but I received notification it would be delivered Friday. I had it sent to work since I work during the day and would be there, but had the week off due to Thanksgiving. So I requested a Hold and Pickup at the local UPS center, about 45 miles away. I had to fight with UPS to do this since a signature was requested and I could not change the delivery location despite it coming to me. They finally did whatever they do and it was changed.

Then late on Friday the 'trailer' was delayed and it would be delivered on Monday again, but it was too late to change back to the original deliver address. So I had to drive the 45 miles one way to pick it up when I should have left it alone.

I was hoping to ride it over the weekend but didn't have it in time and then became really sick anyway, so it was no big deal, just a pain in the rear.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

dayooper said:


> So these are shipping with the snowshoe XLs, not just the snowshoe?


No, I'm sorry, I just went and checked and they are regular Snowshoe 4.5s

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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

It comes on a regular truck. A standard UPS delivery can be left without a signature at the drivers discretion. If they feel it's "safe" they leave it if not they leave a note and try the next day. 

BikesDirect must be opting for "signature required" so that someone has to sign for it. Reduces claims and general pains in the ass for the shipper and receiver. 

We get 100's of personal packages shipped to my work every day as a service to our employees just to avoid all the hassle.

@Dillgaff....UPS normally will not allow a receiver to alter a package delivery due to fraud. They are very good at delivering millions of packages "normally" but when you try to modify a shipment mid stream it can be a challenge and you are at the mercy of on guy on the phone at a UPS hub.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

You might want to also consider the fitment. There are some differences between the two. I looked at Framed before I bought my bike. And they looked like good bikes for the money.

But the winning reason for me--because many other things were about on par--was because I like the fact that the Sturgis/Night Train have a little more room in the cockpit. Longer top tube. On multi-hour rides, I don't want to feel cramped.

My size L (19") Sturgis has an effective top tube length ~619 mm. To get a 615 mm ETT on the Framed MN 3.0, I'd have to get a 22" XL frame. That would include a standover height of 33.5" (!) compared to my standover ~31.25" (with 120 Bluto).


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Steve Javorsky said:


> I have everything but wheels to build from frame up ( and that's the idea as I want the 197mm x 12mm thru axle) so I will buy the frame with bluto and build a wheel set / sell my old Minnesota 3.0 ( already sold) put all my own parts on new frame with bluto..
> 
> So building up new wheels... mulefuts or go with something else ? Think I will be using the DT Swiss hubs.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


Unless you have a budget and strong desire for carbon, just buy the Mulefut wheelset from Bikes Direct. Can't beat the price and they are actually built true with pretty even spoke tension out of the box (I checked with a stand and tension meter).


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

OhioPT said:


> Unless you have a budget and strong desire for carbon, just buy the Mulefut wheelset from Bikes Direct. Can't beat the price and they are actually built true with pretty even spoke tension out of the box (I checked with a stand and tension meter).


you can buy just the Mulefut wheels? I didn't know that. I guess I must have missed it.


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

What hubs do they use ? Are they good ? Also do you have a link to the wheels, I looked and looked and could not find them... how much are they ?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

Steve Javorsky said:


> What hubs do they use ? Are they good ? Also do you have a link to the wheels, I looked and looked and could not find them... how much are they ?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


PAIR of FatBike SunRingle MuleFut Tubeless Compatible Thru-Axle Wheels + FREE Tires: VeeRubber SnowShoe 120Tpi


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

myette10 said:


> PAIR of FatBike SunRingle MuleFut Tubeless Compatible Thru-Axle Wheels + FREE Tires: VeeRubber SnowShoe 120Tpi


Thanks... Anyone having issues with the rear hub. I have issues with stock rear hubs, destroyed a few, now have dt swiss with no issues.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Yep, $399 with 120tpi Snowshoes! : PAIR of FatBike SunRingle MuleFut Tubeless Compatible Thru-Axle Wheels + FREE Tires: VeeRubber SnowShoe 120Tpi

They use Novatec hubs, which are pretty decent, stainless steel spokes, brass nipples. The hubs would cost you $130 a set, rims would be $180 a pair (if you can find them on sale), $8 nipples, $30 spokes. Do the math.

I used the Sun Ringle tubeless valve stems, tape, and rim strips and I seated the beads with a floor pump. They lock onto the rims super tight!


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

myette10 said:


> PAIR of FatBike SunRingle MuleFut Tubeless Compatible Thru-Axle Wheels + FREE Tires: VeeRubber SnowShoe 120Tpi


Wow. So tempting.


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

Steve Javorsky said:


> Thanks... Anyone having issues with the rear hub. I have issues with stock rear hubs, destroyed a few, now have dt swiss with no issues.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


The pawls and pawl spring on my rear started to go after about 1,000 miles. Emailed Novatec in California and the sent new bits gratis. Super easy to service but I think these do need some proactive attention.


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

tonyride1 said:


> you can buy just the Mulefut wheels? I didn't know that. I guess I must have missed it.


How in the world do people find things like these on BD? Can anyone explain to me where these deals are found from the home page?  It seems there are all kinds of hidden 'deals' that aren't very accessible. I found an entire lineup of Fat Bikes they have (still would rather have my sturgis) the other day that isn't on their main 'fat' page.

As for the wheels and hubs - The ones on my sturgis are rather robust and smooth running for now. They are sealed bearings and I've heard that the MuleFuts are very durable. I've ridden them hard and I'm 200 lbs, + 20+ lbs gear at times... Running as low as 5 PSI. No issues, but I haven't had them that long yet.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

jerrduford said:


> How in the world do people find things like these on BD? Can anyone explain to me where these deals are found from the home page?  It seems there are all kinds of hidden 'deals' that aren't very accessible. I found an entire lineup of Fat Bikes they have (still would rather have my sturgis) the other day that isn't on their main 'fat' page.
> 
> As for the wheels and hubs - The ones on my sturgis are rather robust and smooth running for now. They are sealed bearings and I've heard that the MuleFuts are very durable. I've ridden them hard and I'm 200 lbs, + 20+ lbs gear at times... Running as low as 5 PSI. No issues, but I haven't had them that long yet.


On the main page click on the banner that says Cyberholiday Deals Sitewide.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

OK, I just ordered the set. An early Christmas present to myself. The deal was too great and I just couldn't resist.


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

tonyride1 said:


> OK, I just ordered the set. An early Christmas present to myself. The deal was too great and I just couldn't resist.


Very nice, you picked up the MuleFut set? I really like the SnowShoe 4.5's that come on those too.

I was curious if the wheels in that listing would work on my bike without any spacer/conversions... My Sturgis 2016 has the Mulefuts with Novela hubs but they're 150x15, 190x12


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

jerrduford said:


> Very nice, you picked up the MuleFut set? I really like the SnowShoe 4.5's that come on those too.
> 
> I was curious if the wheels in that listing would work on my bike without any spacer/conversions... My Sturgis 2016 has the Mulefuts with Novela hubs but they're 150x15, 190x12


Yup, got the MuleFut set. One of the guys I ride with got the same set for $535 from Bike Island.


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

tonyride1 said:


> Yup, got the MuleFut set. One of the guys I ride with got the same set for $535 from Bike Island.


It's a killer deal, the rims and hubs alone would set you back close to 400 even if you shopped around. Let alone the full built wheels, complete with tubes & tires.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

jerrduford said:


> It's a killer deal, the rims and hubs alone would set you back close to 400 even if you shopped around. Let alone the full built wheels, complete with tubes & tires.


That's why I couldn't resist.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

jerrduford said:


> Very nice, you picked up the MuleFut set? I really like the SnowShoe 4.5's that come on those too.
> 
> I was curious if the wheels in that listing would work on my bike without any spacer/conversions... My Sturgis 2016 has the Mulefuts with Novela hubs but they're 150x15, 190x12


@jerrduford - Yes, these wheels will fit your Sturgis. They are the same Mulefut/Novatec wheels. You have Novatec hubs not Novela.


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

joebikesdirect said:


> @jerrduford - Yes, these wheels will fit your Sturgis. They are the same Mulefut/Novatec wheels. You have Novatec hubs not Novela.


hah thanks Joe - My bad on the Novatec 

Are the hubs the same, the axle is just longer? The spec listing for my Sturgis says 190x12 but the listing for the wheelset says 197x12. Does this mean that the axle will just screw in a bit further? Or is one listing incorrect?


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Hi jerrduford - no prob 
To answer your query, the listing is not incorrect; it may need clarification. 190 is a generic term for the thru-axle spec of the 197mm rear axle OLN (overlocknut) hubs/fatbikes that are capable of fitting around 26x5" tires.

Here is a direct cut/paste from the current rear thru-axle spec from the factory you can see they use "190" in the description (some info redacted):

R.HUB THRU QR ALLOY 7075-T6 AXLE 12x226xM12xP1.5 ( #190-V4 ), BLACK ANOD.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

My Mulefut/Novatec wheelset weight is 2891 grams. That's without rim strips, tubes, tires, or reflectors. The tubeless setup (Sun Ringle valve stems, rim strips, one wrap of tape, and 2 oz of sealant per tire) adds another 295 grams for both wheels combined.


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

joebikesdirect said:


> Hi jerrduford - no prob
> To answer your query, the listing is not incorrect; it may need clarification. 190 is a generic term for the thru-axle spec of the 197mm rear axle OLN (overlocknut) hubs/fatbikes that are capable of fitting around 26x5" tires.
> 
> Here is a direct cut/paste from the current rear thru-axle spec from the factory you can see they use "190" in the description (some info redacted):
> ...


Thanks for clarification Joe, that really simplifies things. I really love the idea of a second wheelset. I could justify it a bit better if my wife's bike could use the upgrade.. but unfortunately her boris is just 135/170 QR. I'd have to rebuild with new hubs 
Although I'm quite sure the snow shoes would clear both front and rear no prob.


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

OhioPT said:


> My Mulefut/Novatec wheelset weight is 2891 grams. That's without rim strips, tubes, tires, or reflectors. The tubeless setup (Sun Ringle valve stems, rim strips, one wrap of tape, and 2 oz of sealant per tire) adds another 295 grams for both wheels combined.


Thanks.... good info.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

OhioPT said:


> My Mulefut/Novatec wheelset weight is 2891 grams. That's without rim strips, tubes, tires, or reflectors. The tubeless setup (Sun Ringle valve stems, rim strips, one wrap of tape, and 2 oz of sealant per tire) adds another 295 grams for both wheels combined.


That's actually crazy light for the price. My (heavy duty) 36 spoke road wheel set (rim brakes) are specced at 2400G. A mere 1lb wheel difference between the road and fatty? not shabby.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Steve Javorsky said:


> So building up new wheels... mulefuts or go with something else ? Think I will be using the DT Swiss hubs.


If you're going to spend the money for DT hubs, you may want to spring for carbon rims as well. They'll run $4500-$600, depending on the width and the vendor, but they'll save you over a pound compared to the Mulefut rims alone. Tubeless setup is simple, you simply tape over the spoke holes and you're done, and its also lighter than tubeless conversions on Mulefuts, since no rim strips are required.

If you're not wedded to DT hubs, you can get complete wheelsets for not much more than the rim price. I'm riding wheels I bought from Yishubike and built wheels for my girlfriend's bike with their rims. The quality is good and we've had no issues with them. Their wheels fit the Night Train frame without any spacers or other nonsense.

I did have issues with the tires that Yishunbike sells (both really wobbled badly, but they refunded my money with no hassle when I sent them a video clip showing the problem.

All this said, I would definitely consider the BD Mulefut wheelset as a second pair, as they're an excellent value considering that they come with tires.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

myette10 said:


> The pawls and pawl spring on my rear started to go after about 1,000 miles. Emailed Novatec in California and the sent new bits gratis. Super easy to service but I think these do need some *proactive attention*.


+1

The non-drive side bearing nut/retainer came loose on mine and some others. Needs degreased and Loc-Tited. If it does come loose, tighten it immediately, even if just by hand. I have a theory that it will lead to the destruction of your ratchet if left loose.

If you are going to be in very wet conditions, pack the bearings with grease. I went as far as removing the seals from the bearings, adding grease, then installing with grease. This was after they were contaminated and needed attention.

You probably should not use too much grease on the ratchet. Lighter lube won't get sticky in the cold.

-F


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

OhioPT said:


> Yep, $399 with 120tpi Snowshoes! : PAIR of FatBike SunRingle MuleFut Tubeless Compatible Thru-Axle Wheels + FREE Tires: VeeRubber SnowShoe 120Tpi
> 
> They use Novatec hubs, which are pretty decent, stainless steel spokes, brass nipples. The hubs would cost you $130 a set, rims would be $180 a pair (if you can find them on sale), $8 nipples, $30 spokes. Do the math.
> 
> I used the Sun Ringle tubeless valve stems, tape, and rim strips and I seated the beads with a floor pump. They lock onto the rims super tight!


I just heard from a buddy of mine who tried to order a set that they're no longer available. I don't know if that means the sale is over or they've sold out. If they're sold out then maybe the deal will be back when they restock. I'm glad I pulled the trigger when I did. Just got the shipping confirmation from BD and got my roll of 2.88" Goralla tape. I already have have a 32 oz bottle of Stans. All I need now is a pair of tubless valves and I'm all set.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

A couple shots from yesterday's ride down by the river. Official trails 'round here are not open... these tracks in the goo will be erased via natural processes. They were fun too make. Luckily, no dabs were required- automatic game over if you do


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Fleas again.

@Fleas - very good advice.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

I just got my Sturgis Bullet. The box came with a bit of a hole in it but the bike looks good. I built it up in about 20 minutes in its stock configuration. I still have a lot of "tuning" to do.

One thing is that the Maxle axle on the Bluto does not seem to be working properly. It tightens okay on but when I go to lock the quick release handle it is just floppy. The cam mechanism is not working. Is there an adjustment to this or may it be defective?


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

TheNormsk said:


> I just got my Sturgis Bullet. The box came with a bit of a hole in it but the bike looks good. I built it up in about 20 minutes in its stock configuration. I still have a lot of "tuning" to do.
> 
> One thing is that the Maxle axle on the Bluto does not seem to be working properly. It tightens okay on but when I go to lock the quick release handle it is just floppy. The cam mechanism is not working. Is there an adjustment to this or may it be defective?


Maybe this will help you

Maxle Manual


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Guy.Ford said:


> Maybe this will help you
> 
> Maxle Manual


This is what I needed. Thank You! It was the last page with the tension adjustment that I was missing.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Did you use the spacer? Actually it is more like a shim. I had a similar issue when I first put mine together then I found the shim laying around and the ID of it just happened to be the same size as the front axle and it fit nicely in the fork.


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

I want to thank everyone on this thread, I ordered my Bullet Frame / Bluto late last night and received a shipping confirmation today. Awesome. Getting my Mulefuts with DT Swiss hubs build on Tuesday. Should be riding well before next weekend if everything goes right.... Thanks again !!!!!


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Steve Javorsky said:


> I want to thank everyone on this thread, I ordered my Bullet Frame / Bluto late last night and received a shipping confirmation today. Awesome. Getting my Mulefuts with DT Swiss hubs build on Tuesday. Should be riding well before next weekend if everything goes right.... Thanks again !!!!!


Congratulations and enjoy. Post pictures when you have it built up.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

tonyride1 said:


> Did you use the spacer? Actually it is more like a shim. I had a similar issue when I first put mine together then I found the shim laying around and the ID of it just happened to be the same size as the front axle and it fit nicely in the fork.


Yep I put the spacers on as I remembered them from reading another post.

This thread is a really really l o n g read but it has lots on wonderful information in it. :thumbsup:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

TheNormsk said:


> I just got my Sturgis Bullet. The box came with a bit of a hole in it but the bike looks good. I built it up in about 20 minutes in its stock configuration. I still have a lot of "tuning" to do.
> 
> One thing is that the Maxle axle on the Bluto does not seem to be working properly. It tightens okay on but when I go to lock the quick release handle it is just floppy. The cam mechanism is not working. Is there an adjustment to this or may it be defective?


Insert a small allen wrench into the side of the axle and turn clockwise to tighten (you will feel it click).


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

My new baby. 35lb 3oz without pedals and reflectors but everything else stock.










From just riding around the Garage I am impressed with the stability on it. Track stands are easy on it!

On the sizing, being 5'11" I am right on the border between the 17.5" and the 19". I went with the 17.5" as I wanted a more upright position for slow speed snow crawling. The cockpit feels a little tight but I think it will be okay. My 70mm Syntace stem may be too short though. May have to stick with a 100mm. Also my Thompson post may also not work as it has no set back.

I'll do some measurements against my current bike (which I feel is a smidgen too large) to compare.

One pleasant surprise is that the bike has routing for a dropper post. I wasn't expecting that!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

TheNormsk said:


> My new baby. 35lb 3oz without pedals and reflectors but everything else stock.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome. I'm jealous that you have a garage large enough (and clutter free enough) to be able to ride your bike in. Anyway, since you have the 17.5" frame may I ask a favor? Can you check out the derailleur hanger and see if there are 2 bolts attaching it to the frame or just 1? Also, are you going to go tubeless?


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

:thumbsup:

Ordered last Friday. Maiden voyage for my boy will be on Global Fat Bike Day!

#GFBD2015


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

Jeff_G said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> Ordered last Friday. Maiden voyage for my boy will be on Global Fat Bike Day!
> 
> ...


Perfect! I'm excited for you guys - It'll be a blast. Post some pics up of your son on his new sturgis after!


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

TheNormsk said:


> On the sizing, being 5'11" I am right on the border between the 17.5" and the 19". I went with the 17.5" as I wanted a more upright position for slow speed snow crawling. The cockpit feels a little tight but I think it will be okay. My 70mm Syntace stem may be too short though. May have to stick with a 100mm. Also my Thompson post may also not work as it has no set back.


I am the same height but I went for the 19" and it fits great. The standover is right on the money and I wish it had a curved top tube since I prefer a little more but I'll deal with it.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Look in the center of the end of the lever's pivot. Inside the end is a small hex bolt. That sets the preload on the lever. Tighten it so the lever when shut does not flop but don't over tighten 



TheNormsk said:


> I just got my Sturgis Bullet. The box came with a bit of a hole in it but the bike looks good. I built it up in about 20 minutes in its stock configuration. I still have a lot of "tuning" to do.
> 
> One thing is that the Maxle axle on the Bluto does not seem to be working properly. It tightens okay on but when I go to lock the quick release handle it is just floppy. The cam mechanism is not working. Is there an adjustment to this or may it be defective?


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

tonyride1 said:


> Awesome. I'm jealous that you have a garage large enough (and clutter free enough) to be able to ride your bike in. Anyway, since you have the 17.5" frame may I ask a favor? Can you check out the derailleur hanger and see if there are 2 bolts attaching it to the frame or just 1? Also, are you going to go tubeless?


The garage is 700 sq ft and it is a rarity that it is tidy 

I seem to remember that the spare derailleur hanger has two bolt but I will double check this evening.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Dilligaff said:


> I am the same height but I went for the 19" and it fits great. The standover is right on the money and I wish it had a curved top tube since I prefer a little more but I'll deal with it.


After some tweaking my fit feels good now. I put on my Thompson post and my 17 year old WTB SST.98 saddle (the greatest saddle ever made?) and the effective top tube measured to within a 1/4" that I have on my large Tallboy LTc.

I discovered that the stem is actually a 80mm (I though this came with a 100) so I'm pleased with that. My 70mm Syntace MegaForce2 may work out okay or I may get a 80mm one as the 80 mm feels great now. We'll see if that changes when I get out on the trails/snow. For now it's staying on.

Overall I'm pleased with the bike so far. Just looking at it gives me a grin. 




























Definitely a fattie. Now 36lb 2oz with seatpost/saddle change, pedals and frame bag. May convert to tubeless next week to shed rotation weight.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

In the assembly process. Three issues, one I can't quite wrap my head around. 

Seat post is too tall even for me at 5'7". I am going to cut it down.

There were two plastic spacers in a bag attached to the front wheel spokes. They fit the hubs and with them the wheel fits in the fork. Without them there is too much space. 

Do plastic spacers really fill the gap between the hub and the fork? I'm not genius but it would seem they could collapse or wear and create side play? 

Front brake pulls too close to the bar. I will try bleeding it. 

Otherwise it's going well.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Jeff_G said:


> In the assembly process. Three issues, one I can't quite wrap my head around.
> 
> Seat post is too tall even for me at 5'7". I am going to cut it down.
> 
> ...


It appears so, the spacers were also mentioned back on post #2845. I imagine they're dense enough and wouldn't really cause trouble in this application, though it is a bit lame. At least they'd be cheap to replace!


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

dayooper said:


> It appears so, the spacers were also mentioned back on post #2845. I imagine they're dense enough and wouldn't really cause trouble in this application, though it is a bit lame. At least they'd be cheap to replace!


I'm pretty sure my spacers are aluminum, with a small o-ring on the inside, the part that caps over the hub.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

That would make more sense!


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

Quick question about the frame / bluto combo only. Is the Bluto cut to size or does it need cut ? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Jeff_G said:


> Front brake pulls too close to the bar. I will try bleeding it.
> 
> Otherwise it's going well.


Re: the brake- if you have some brake mineral oil, you might just try adding a "teence" to the reservoir before you do a full bleed. I did this with good success recently. Don't know about SRAMs but the Tektro brakes have a hex key cap for adding fluid and I noted that it's SAE, not metric!


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

All done with the build on my 19" frame. Weighs 30.8 pounds without pedals. I took it out for a 6 mile shakedown trail ride before it got dark.


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

That looks good, 30.8 is light. What wheels ? And that is with Bluto?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Steve Javorsky said:


> That looks good, 30.8 is light. What wheels ? And that is with Bluto?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


That's with the Mulefut wheelset from Bikes Direct, converted tubeless with the Sun Ringle kit. And yes, that's with the Bluto (120mm in my case).


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

That is good to know, Come on UPS and Monday.... cant wait to start building my frame / bluto combo..... Where did you get the Tubeless kit ?


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

I bought the valves and tape from Universal Cycles (along with a lot of other parts), and got the rim strips (and Raceface Aeffect crankarms) from Bikeman because Universal was out of stock on both of those items.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

FYI, on my frame it looks like they chased the BB threads and faced the driveside, but there was a thick layer of paint on the outside of the BB shell on the NDS. Take a razor and carefully remove the paint there down to bare metal so the external BB cup will sit flush and even.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

AthleticAL said:


> Re: the brake- if you have some brake mineral oil, you might just try adding a "teence" to the reservoir before you do a full bleed. I did this with good success recently. Don't know about SRAMs but the Tektro brakes have a hex key cap for adding fluid and I noted that it's SAE, not metric!


Mine have a warning label that says to use DOT 4 or 5.1 only.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Dilligaff said:


> Mine have a warning label that says to use DOT 4 or 5.1 only.


I'm guessing you have the SRAM Guide brakes? Definitely do use DOT 4 or 5.1 only.

Tektro brakes, like mine, use mineral oil.


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## mcgurme (Apr 15, 2007)

*Got my purple machine today...*

Shipped Monday, showed up today in perfect shape.

just in time for the rain and mud.... On the maiden voyage it did well on the mud, but it picked up about 4 pounds of the gooey stuff. Fun so far! Glad I decided to try this bike.

More reports when I get it into the snow 

Next, a tubeless conversion maybe using the FattyStrippers.















Thanks for all the info.. great thread, but a bit long!


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

Jeff_G said:


> In the assembly process. Three issues, one I can't quite wrap my head around.
> 
> Seat post is too tall even for me at 5'7". I am going to cut it down.
> 
> ...


You don't need to bleed the brakes. Just take up some of the "slack" but pulling the lever with the wheel off the bike. That should advance the pads. Do it slowly, test results after each single pull.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

Jeff_G said:


> In the assembly process. Three issues, one I can't quite wrap my head around.
> 
> Seat post is too tall even for me at 5'7". I am going to cut it down.
> 
> ...


Assuming the spacers are the same as mine (2015 with Weinmann wheelset) don't sweat it. I've had the front wheel off a lot to get the bike on the roof rack and have had zero problems with those end caps coming off, getting loose, etc...

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

OhioPT said:


> All done with the build on my 19" frame. Weighs 30.8 pounds without pedals. I took it out for a 6 mile shakedown trail ride before it got dark.
> 
> View attachment 1033600
> 
> ...


Wow that looks nice, Ohio!

How tall are you? I'm trying to decide between the 17 and 19; I'm at 5'11".


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

NDTransplant said:


> Wow that looks nice, Ohio!
> 
> How tall are you? I'm trying to decide between the 17 and 19; I'm at 5'11".


5'10.5" here, went large and no regrets. 70mm stem, wide ass bars. Use it all year.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I am the same height and am glad I went with the large. I can't imagine what the medium would be like.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

NDTransplant said:


> Wow that looks nice, Ohio!
> 
> How tall are you? I'm trying to decide between the 17 and 19; I'm at 5'11".


6' 2.5" with a long cycling inseem of 36", wide shoulders, and relatively short torso/reach. I'm at the very upper limit of fitting the 19" frame, and have to use a 400mm seatpost to keep enough post in the frame. I'm using a 70mm stem and 747mm wide bars, and my saddle is slid back a little more than midway. I could have easily gone XL, but I didn't want the longer wheelbase and higher standover height. However, I would have gone XL if I was planning on using a rigid or 100mm travel fork, due to the shorter axle-crown length (and therefore reduced wheelbase, standover, and stack height). At 5'11", you should be on the 19", IMO.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Pulled the trigger this morning on the 17.5" sturgis bullet and carbon fork. I'm going to sell the Bluto as I'm only using this for winter cruising, so feel free to PM if anyone's interested. Thanks to all for the great info in this thread!


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

Steve Javorsky said:


> Quick question about the frame / bluto combo only. Is the Bluto cut to size or does it need cut ?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


Anybody ? Is the Bluto cut to frame size or does it need cut ?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

Thanks for the responses regarding sizing, guys. 

I was thinking you must be fairly tall, Ohio, seeing a how you had a large, and the amount of seat post that is sticking out. That is really an impressive build weight. 

I'm also looking at Surly's new Wednesday, but that will be a $2,000+ machine by the time I install a Bluto. I've looked at a bunch, and I just don't see a better way to get into a Bluto-ready/Bluto-equipped bike than Motobecane's offerings.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Steve Javorsky said:


> Anybody ? Is the Bluto cut to frame size or does it need cut ?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


It will need cut, then install the star-fangled nut. You will also need to press the crown race for the headset onto the fork crown.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

NDTransplant said:


> Thanks for the responses regarding sizing, guys.
> 
> I was thinking you must be fairly tall, Ohio, seeing a how you had a large, and the amount of seat post that is sticking out. That is really an impressive build weight.
> 
> I'm also looking at Surly's new Wednesday, but that will be a $2,000+ machine by the time I install a Bluto. I've looked at a bunch, and I just don't see a better way to get into a Bluto-ready/Bluto-equipped bike than Motobecane's offerings.


I have $1770 into my build, including the tubeless kit and frame tape. I shopped around quite a bit to find the best prices on all the components. I don't think you can do any better as far as weight or performance for the price. Here is my parts list and weights:


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## Urban0x (Jul 3, 2015)

2016 Moto Night Train Bullet derailleur hanger bent and broke , not even 100m on the bike yet.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Mine came with a replacement but both look like the thick Version 3 shown in pictures on here. My NTB is the Ti version. 

I beat on mine today for GFBD and took a line I knew would give me problems on the Pug. I was pleasantly surprised. If I wasn't deathly sick I'd have ridden more.


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

OhioPT said:


> It will need cut, then install the star-fangled nut. You will also need to press the crown race for the headset onto the fork crown.


Thanks !!!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

My kid rode the Sturgis to a Winter Bike Expo today for it's inaugural run. Bike works well. I'll put some thoughts out there later. 

After we get there I realize theY have a demo track and three bike manufacturers with every bike they make. 

He rode the fully suspended Carbon Bucksaw, Blackbarrow, Wednesday, Ice Cream Truck, and four Trek models. Probably 8 bikes total. 

He also rode the Sturgis and my Farley 7 through the course. 

To my surprise he said he liked his bike the best. But he really wants the FS Carbon Bucksaw. 

He's a straight shooter so he would have told me if he liked one of the other bikes a lot better. 

Good news for me. He absolutely loves this bike. Lot's of smiles.


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## hicksjerry (Dec 14, 2014)

Urban0x said:


> 2016 Moto Night Train Bullet derailleur hanger bent and broke , not even 100m on the bike yet.


Just bent the 4th hanger on my Sturgis Bullet today and I've only had it a couple of months. I really love my Sturgis, but these hangers are killing me! Has anyone found a source of replacement hangers?


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

hicksjerry said:


> Just bent the 4th hanger on my Sturgis Bullet today and I've only had it a couple of months. I really love my Sturgis, but these hangers are killing me! Has anyone found a source of replacement hangers?


Do you know why they breaking so frequently for you?


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## Urban0x (Jul 3, 2015)

Because they are junk


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

Can you order new D-hangers online at Bikes Direct ? Or do you have to call them..... I am getting a Bullet Frame on Monday and would like to get an extra Hanger.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

Steve Javorsky said:


> Can you order new D-hangers online at Bikes Direct ? Or do you have to call them..... I am getting a Bullet Frame on Monday and would like to get an extra Hanger.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


Derailleur Hangers for Bicycles, Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, Hybrid, Comfort and More Save Up to 60% Off New Bikes

I _think_ you want the Number 28....


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

NDTransplant said:


> Derailleur Hangers for Bicycles, Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, Hybrid, Comfort and More Save Up to 60% Off New Bikes
> 
> I _think_ you want the Number 28....


Thanks awesome..... so what one do I need for the 2016 Bullet Frame / Bluto combo?

Thanks

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

Not sure how that happened..... the...... I think you want the number 28..... was not there.... thanks

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Steve Javorsky said:


> Can you order new D-hangers online at Bikes Direct ? Or do you have to call them..... I am getting a Bullet Frame on Monday and would like to get an extra Hanger.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


Mine came with two, one on the bike and a spare in a bag, but I did get a whole bike.

#28 showed just fine for me.


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## Urban0x (Jul 3, 2015)

Yea I'm trying my spare out tomorrow, but are there any decent replacements better than the ones that came with it


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Steve Javorsky said:


> Can you order new D-hangers online at Bikes Direct ? Or do you have to call them..... I am getting a Bullet Frame on Monday and would like to get an extra Hanger.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


My Sturgis came with a spare.


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

Steve Javorsky said:


> Not sure how that happened..... the...... I think you want the number 28..... was not there.... thanks
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


LOL I think I was editing the post while you were viewing. Or something like that.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

I would call them about the derailleur hanger since you have a 2016. Then hanger for the 2016 may be a little different than the 2015.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

OhioPT said:


> I have $1770 into my build, including the tubeless kit and frame tape. I shopped around quite a bit to find the best prices on all the components. I don't think you can do any better as far as weight or performance for the price. Here is my parts list and weights:
> 
> View attachment 1033708


I'm pumped to see this breakdown. It is really suggestive to me of the quality of BD's build for the NTB. I paid $1799 shipped for my 35.4# Large NTB. After tubeless hopefully I'll be looking at 32.5#. I also have a 600g drop seatpost, aluminum bars, and bulky grips. Switching to lightweight seatpost and carbon bars might bump the price to $2000 for the whole NTB, and I didn't have to expend the great effort to do this build!

And a fine build it is! Thanks for sharing! Way to build an awesome fat bike on a budget.


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## hicksjerry (Dec 14, 2014)

bwilson said:


> Do you know why they breaking so frequently for you?


I bent the first 3 hangers by crashing on the drive side of my bike. I figured that I was just unlucky and that perhaps the added weight of a fattie may have caused the hangers to bend. But yesterday I came to an abrupt stop on a steep incline, the guy next to me did the same, and he had trouble clipping out quickly. When he did clip out, his foot kicked my derailleur...and bent the hanger. I'm starting to feel like these hangers bend at the slightest contact. I understand the purpose of a hanger is to bend in order to save the derailleur, but in my experience, these hangers bend just a little too easily.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

thomcom said:


> I'm pumped to see this breakdown. It is really suggestive to me of the quality of BD's build for the NTB. I paid $1799 shipped for my 35.4# Large NTB. After tubeless hopefully I'll be looking at 32.5#. I also have a 600g drop seatpost, aluminum bars, and bulky grips. Switching to lightweight seatpost and aluminum bars might bump the price to $2000 for the whole NTB, and I didn't have to expend the great effort to do this build!
> 
> And a find build it is! Thanks for sharing! Way to build an awesome fat bike on a budget.


Thanks man, I appreciate that. Yeah, the complete bikes are a great value, and I went back and forth in my head a long time before deciding on just buying the frameset. In my case, I knew I would end up replacing the whole cockpit (the stock bars are heavy and I already had carbon bars ready to go, the seatpost is too short for me, the stem is too long, and I wouldn't like the saddle). I prefer Shimano brakes because I know they perform great, they are easy to bleed, and I have spare pads already for my other 2 bikes, so it makes my inventory simpler. I also like 1x10 drivetrains for their simplicity and weight savings, and it's just easier and cheaper to spec the parts from the start. I used a wide range 11-42 Sunrace cassette, so no messing around with an expensive expander cog and the shitty shifting around the 13 to 17 tooth sprockets. I also used the new 11 speed XT rear derailleur (with a 10 speed shifter) so no messing around with longer b-screws or derailleur cage modifications. It's also more "future proof" having the 11 speed capability. And finally, I wanted to try the Aeffect crankarms because they can use direct-mount chainrings, which allows you to use smaller (26-28 tooth) sprockets without the compromised chainline you get with using the 64 BCD inner chainring position on a 2x crankarm with spiders.


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

Steve Javorsky said:


> Can you order new D-hangers online at Bikes Direct ? Or do you have to call them..... I am getting a Bullet Frame on Monday and would like to get an extra Hanger.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


My 2016 rigid Night Train complete bike came with an extra hanger. I've been riding mine frequently and hard for a month and no issues so far.


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## Urban0x (Jul 3, 2015)

I emailed them if there is a source for a forge alum or SS hanger. Not this cast alum ****


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## sackheim (May 16, 2009)

Hey I just got my NightTrain in the mail (not the Bullet). Psyched! I'd like to upgrade to 100mm rims and wanted to know a few things. First note that my frame is 197mm Thru-Axle Rear. And the rear hub is listed as "R/HUB(FH) T	NOVATEC X12MM, REAR DISC HUB 32H. Thru-Axle:12x190MM." I'm not even sure what all of that means.

1. So, if I bought one of these rear wheels, which one do I need to order? 100mm 26er Carbon Fat Bike Wheel Clincher MTB thru Axle QR Matt Rim 4 8 Beadless | eBay

2. Since those rims are expensive, I'm thinking of just getting the rear one. Do you think I'll be okay running 80mm in the front and 100mm in the back, or should I just suck it up and get both? My goal is good snow performance. Note: I would change over to tubless in the front to save weight.

3. Any other suggestions for an 100mm aluminum wheel if I want to save and not go carbon?


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

I've found 2 places you can get hangers for the *ALUMINUM (not TI)* Sturgis\Nighttrain both are mfg by Pilo one is direct the other a distributor. Not sure either is better or worse than stock motobecane hanger.

D547 derailleur hanger - SOS Hanger

Derailleur hanger, Mech hanger, Dropout bicycle, Gear hanger, Bash guard - Pilo CNC. D547 derailleur hanger for Motobecane fat bikes

I've have an email in to North Shore Billet about making a hanger for the Sturgis, no word back yet.


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## Urban0x (Jul 3, 2015)

Hmm mine have 2 screws not 1 is this for the 2015 maybe?


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

Urban0x said:


> Hmm mine have 2 screws not 1 is this for the 2015 maybe?


Can you please post a pic? Is it possible you own the Ti fat bike and not the Alu version?

UGH just what's needed more f#ck1ng confusion and bs with this brand\model.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

I think it is probably kind of an early version, for fat bike thru axle rears. I've certainly never seen a hanger like it. 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

These are the usual hangers for the Sturgis\Nighttrain


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

The spare the sent with my Sturgis Friday has two screws.


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## mcgurme (Apr 15, 2007)

Not to interrupt he enthralling derailleur hanger convo... (My NT came with a spare, too...)

But tonight I took the maiden snow voyage and this bike rocks.

I had her out yesterday in the city and, maybe it was just the head cold I had, but she felt sluggish and not all that fun on the road. I started wondering, did I make a mistake? Where's that "kid like feeling" everyone is talking about?

I didn't give in to the Dark Side or despair, however. Tonight I got to the mountains and took 'er for an 8 mile ride to town and back. It was a combination of groomed ski trail, ungroomed single track with 8" of heavy snow, and powder packed roads and a few icy spots.

Apart from the ~1mi hike a bike through the ungroomed/untracked part, it was F U N. I ran the tires at just under 10. I DID feel like a kid again. Wheeeee.....

This bike did fantastic out of the box, with very little adjustment needed. (I did put on my Titec H bars... And have tubeless stuff on the way).

Thanks for making great bikes at great prices, BD!

Before the ride:









And a look at the tubing hill from the groomed ski trail:









Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mcgurme (Apr 15, 2007)

I dunno - those Mulefuts on the NightTrain are pretty sweet for this price point. I'm wondering if 100mm would really benefit all that much... Might get more bang for the buck just switching to Bud and Lou tires tubeless if you want max snow performance. I'll be experimenting this winter to see how it goes, but I'll be giving the stock snowshoes some good workouts before trying others. Of course, we average over 100 in of snow per year, so I might need super fatties.

BTW if you are going to do asymmetrical, I'd do the fatter one up front if you have clearance. In soft/slippery conditions it's a lot better to have more traction in the front than back. If the back wheel slips you can usually recover. If the front wheel slides out first, it often means a wipeout.



sackheim said:


> Hey I just got my NightTrain in the mail (not the Bullet). Psyched! I'd like to upgrade to 100mm rims and wanted to know a few things. First note that my frame is 197mm Thru-Axle Rear. And the rear hub is listed as "R/HUB(FH) TNOVATEC X12MM, REAR DISC HUB 32H. Thru-Axle:12x190MM." I'm not even sure what all of that means.
> 
> 1. So, if I bought one of these rear wheels, which one do I need to order? 100mm 26er Carbon Fat Bike Wheel Clincher MTB thru Axle QR Matt Rim 4 8 Beadless | eBay
> 
> ...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## tbonegreen (Sep 17, 2009)

I just sold my Boris and am looking at upgrading to either a Lurch or Sturgis. Does anybody have any pics of their new bikes with the MuleFut wheels and other new parts from the latest order?

Reasons why I should lean either way? I'm looking to pull the trigger today hopefully.

Thanks!


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

tbonegreen said:


> I just sold my Boris and am looking at upgrading to either a Lurch or Sturgis. Does anybody have any pics of their new bikes with the MuleFut wheels and other new parts from the latest order?
> 
> Reasons why I should lean either way? I'm looking to pull the trigger today hopefully.
> 
> Thanks!


Frame. What type of frame do you want? Boris is steel, Sturgis is AL. Steel is heavier, but bullet proof, a bit softer ride, and easier to fix if you're trekking in the middle of nowhere. Most folks prefer Aliminum for the weight savings.

Everything else looks pretty similar, though slightly better derailleurs/shifters on the Boris. These are relatively cheap upgrades later, if you even want to. Hydro brakes on the Sturgis as well, which are generally perceived as better for modulation (more upkeep with occasional bleeding), though the BB7s are well-regarded as far as mechs go.

I would base the decision primarily on the frame.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

thomcom said:


> I think it is probably kind of an early version, for fat bike thru axle rears. I've certainly never seen a hanger like it.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


@thomcom Could you please send and post a pic of the hanger and your bike?


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## tbone627 (Apr 21, 2012)

*Newly arrived Sturgis Bullet 19"*

Hi all,

Thanks for the great thread on BD Sturgis and NTBs. It was extremely helpful for me when I purchased my Sturgis Bullet. I had an FB4 Pro last year that was a 17.5" and was a bit small. I loved the bike, but figured it was time to upgrade when I went with a bigger size. A few minor modifications:
- Surly Nates 120tpi
- Black Ops pedals (these things are sweeeet)
- Ouri lock-on grips
- I plan to upgrade seatpost and cockpit with some carbon bits, but for now I'm running stock.

A few observations:
- Came with a second der hangar. It is the strangest design I've ever seen in that it threads over the axle. I've seen lots of comments about busted ones, so we shall see if I need it!
- Bluto is 100mm, not 120 as listed (which is totally fine for me)
- Internally routed cables
- The only "cheap" parts it arrived with were:
-- 80mm stem (which I'm happy about, and not 100/120mm as listed)
-- 700mm riser bar 
-- hard rubber wtb slide on grips

Overall I am very impressed with this bike. Another quality product that has a beautifully welded frame by Kinesis, nice parts and really sweet Mul fut wheels. The only problem, and there is another thread on this, is the removal of the Vee Rubber Snowshoes that come on the bike. I am a very experienced mechanic and it took me two hours to get them off. I had to use a vice, c-clamps, old metal tire levers and plenty of cursing. The rims and bead are beyond tight tolerances. I'm not crazy, as you'll see others have the same problem and offer other methods of extraction in another thread. My Nates went on super easy. I also mounted the Vee's on the FB4 I sold and they went on those rims relatively easily. Its the combo of Mulefuts and tubeless Vees that's the issue. I'm still impressed with the design and look of the mules. Ride report to follow in the winter...

Below are some pics of the new rig. I am happy to take more close-ups, measure or answer questions for anyone out there looking to get one. I am 5' 11" and the Large fits me perfectly. Standover is totally fine and even seems lesser than the posted #s.


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

tbonegreen said:


> I just sold my Boris and am looking at upgrading to either a Lurch or Sturgis. Does anybody have any pics of their new bikes with the MuleFut wheels and other new parts from the latest order?
> 
> Reasons why I should lean either way? I'm looking to pull the trigger today hopefully.
> 
> Thanks!


TBone - Like dayooper said - Frame will be the biggest difference (he mentioned Boris is steel, he meant Lurch).

Personally I strongly prefer the characteristics of AL over Steel. I have the Sturgis with the Mulefuts and I'll toss a few pics up for you. I'm happy enough with this bike to the extent that I will be compiling a video review/fun video over the course of this season.

Stock tires, goofy trekking bars & rack:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ASrJ3_hlo5OWFfbHVOVDU1bWM/view?usp=sharing

A few with bud&Lou on the mulefuts
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ASrJ3_hlo5N3A3WTd0bFZwUkU/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ASrJ3_hlo5Z1h4TGNrSE1FODA/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ASrJ3_hlo5Z2FvT0J4RWdrRkE/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ASrJ3_hlo5TXZyWlFscm9UN2M/view?usp=sharing


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

tbonegreen said:


> I just sold my Boris and am looking at upgrading to either a Lurch or Sturgis. Does anybody have any pics of their new bikes with the MuleFut wheels and other new parts from the latest order?
> 
> Reasons why I should lean either way? I'm looking to pull the trigger today hopefully.
> 
> Thanks!


Presumably the Sturgis will be a pound or so lighter than the Lurch. The lurch has the shortest chainstay of any BD fatbike, so it gets that "flickability" at the cost of having a steel frame. I'm something of a weight weenie so I opted for the aluminum frame. The Lurch is really well specced, if steel is where you want to be.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jerrduford again.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to thomcom again.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Guy.Ford said:


> These are the usual hangers for the Sturgis\Nighttrain


This is the new one that came with my NTB, along with the extra screws. Only one screw is for the hanger, the others are perhaps for the water bottle cage?

As you can see, it's much beefier than the one in your pictures, but based on the design I still see the weak point and hope it's up to the task. If not, I'll have one made locally at a machine shop.


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

Dilligaff said:


> This is the new one that came with my NTB, along with the extra screws. Only one screw is for the hanger, the others are perhaps for the water bottle cage?
> 
> As you can see, it's much beefier than the one in your pictures, but based on the design I still see the weak point and hope it's up to the task. If not, I'll have one made locally at a machine shop.
> 
> ...


EDIT - I looked at you past posts, your on the TI Version, the hangers I posted are for the ALU version, VERY different specs with regards to hangers. I have not found another replacement for the TI version other than BD or Motobecane.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Why are there 2 different versions? A Sturgis or NTB should be the same for either one, regardless of whether they're made in different places or not. 

If not, then they should have had different names. 

Otherwise that's just plain stupid.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

The Titanium Sturgis / NightTrain frames are welded by ORA Titanium one of the best craftspeople in the business.

The Aluminum Sturgis / NightTrain frames are welded by Kinesis, a top builder of aluminum frames. 



Dilligaff said:


> Why are there 2 different versions? A Sturgis or NTB should be the same for either one, regardless of whether they're made in different places or not.
> 
> If not, then they should have had different names.
> 
> Otherwise that's just plain stupid.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Dilligaff said:


> Why are there 2 different versions? A Sturgis or NTB should be the same for either one, regardless of whether they're made in different places or not.
> 
> If not, then they should have had different names.
> 
> Otherwise that's just plain stupid.


It's not a Sturgis vs night train vs manufacturing location thing.

It's frame materials.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Yes, I know this. 

And both are going by build documents, aka blueprints, and adhere to the mm for the accuracy. 

So there is no reason they shouldn't have the same hanger.


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

Dilligaff said:


> Why are there 2 different versions? A Sturgis or NTB should be the same for either one, regardless of whether they're made in different places or not.
> 
> If not, then they should have had different names.
> 
> Otherwise that's just plain stupid.


Well since I had nothing to do with naming or manufacturing the bikes, I couldn't tell you why they are different, all I can say is they are. Though I would vernture to guess it has something to due with the fact the TI bikes are made by a different factory than the Alu Kenisis frames. Either way, the hangers for the TI and Alu are very different.


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

Dilligaff said:


> Yes, I know this.
> 
> And both are going by build documents, aka blueprints, and adhere to the mm for the accuracy.
> 
> So there is no reason they shouldn't have the same hanger.


Different factory, different ways of doing things. How the bike game works.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Dilligaff said:


> Yes, I know this.
> 
> And both are going by build documents, aka blueprints, and adhere to the mm for the accuracy.
> 
> So there is no reason they shouldn't have the same hanger.


Design and material go hand-in-hand, and some materials don't work well together. It's probable that a TI frame would require a different hanger than an AL frame, even if not obvious (though in this case it sounds like it is).


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## Hooksc (Dec 8, 2015)

Attempted to delete


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

dayooper said:


> Frame. What type of frame do you want? Boris is steel, Sturgis is AL. Steel is heavier, but bullet proof, a bit softer ride, and easier to fix if you're trekking in the middle of nowhere. Most folks prefer Aliminum for the weight savings.
> 
> Everything else looks pretty similar, though slightly better derailleurs/shifters on the Boris. These are relatively cheap upgrades later, if you even want to. Hydro brakes on the Sturgis as well, which are generally perceived as better for modulation (more upkeep with occasional bleeding), though the BB7s are well-regarded as far as mechs go.
> 
> I would base the decision primarily on the frame.


You're incorrect.
I rode my Boris for a full year in snow and summer, it's a great bike. Sold it for nearly what I paid (the old adage that these bikes don't maintain value is false). Both frames are aluminum. I think the Boris frame is actually a little lighter than Sturgis but do not have proof.

I bought a Night Train because it can fit a Lou in the rear (Boris could only do 4") and it has much better rims in the Mulefuts vs. Weinmann. That said, yesterday morning before my ride, I convinced my fiance to buy the $700 Boris as her first fatty! It's as much as she was willing to spend and, from experience, I know the Boris is a great bike. Now the Night Train, with RaceFace cranks, 120 tpi tires, type 2 X9 derailleurs, (nicest, lightest?) tubeless ready aluminum rims, internal cable routing and 5" tire capability made the Sturgis/NT the best value I could find.

Also, in my opinion, brakes are the most overrated fat bike item. With fat tires and low pressures, brakes are scarcely needed. Put on the lightest cheapest things and drop the pressure. With stock tubes and Snowshoe tires yesterday, I was at 1.5 PSI front and 2.5 rear. Super slow going up or flat, but I made it up a few real steep loose hills and no one could keep up on the downs (maybe because I didn't need my brakes ;-).


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## Stumpy406 (Dec 8, 2015)

Hi all,

A couple days ago I swept the leg and pre-ordered a night train bullet. I thought I made a sound decision by ordering the 17.5" but now am concerned I need the 19". I am 5' 11.5" and have a 32" inseam so I'm more torso than legs. My main bike is a Stumpjumper carbon evo 650b in a large and fits me very well.

Thoughts?

The Bikes Direct site shows a ship date of Jan 4-8. Any idea if they would accommodate a change in the frame size if I contact them ASAP?

Thanks!


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

*Sturgis Bullet Ride Review*

I had a good ride yesterday in western PA, on the typical single-track trail loop that I've ridden dozens of times on my other bikes. 14 miles, 1700' of climbing. The ground froze the previous night and thawed out, so surface conditions were not great. I've been using Strava all year on pretty much every ride to keep track of my distance and hours ridden, as well as segment times. Although not 100% accurate, it gives a lot of data to compare your rides. For reference, I'm 6' 2.5", 200 lbs, I trail ride 2-3x/week (130 riding hours this year so far), and have plenty of top 10's and a few KOMs on my local trails.  My main trail bike is a full suspension carbon Niner RIP9 RDO with a 150mm Pike fork. Some thoughts on my custom build Sturgis Bullet:

Pros:
- Traction is amazing. I was able to stand and grind up hills with wet leaves and mud that I would have spun out easily on my 29er if I wasn't in the saddle. 
- Way less trail impact. There were wet/muddy flat sections that I could roll right through without leaving a trace, where on my 29er I would have left a small rut.
- Great rollover. Sticks, rocks, roots, and logs almost disappear, even compared to full suspension. In rock gardens you worry less about getting your tire stuck in the crevices and bouncing offline. Of course you can still feel the bigger stuff, so it doesn't take all the work out of it. 
- Overall cornering and handling. The bike handles very similar to my 29er, aside from the brake steer (see below). On the twisty Strava segments that don't involve much climbing, I was clocking times very close (within margin of error) to what I've been doing lately on my RIP9. 
- Comfort. I can't say I missed my rear suspension much. Those big ass tires absorb a lot of impact.

Cons:
- Front Brake Steer. Grab a good amount of front brake, and the front end starts to self-steer. I'm not sure why this happens, but it takes some getting used to. I usually use the front brake to compress the front suspension to set up for turns, and doing this on the fatty was a no-go. Cornering/steering improved drastically when I just feathered the front brake or didn't use it at all. 
- Self steer. When turning on pavement or groomed surfaces, the front wheel will sometimes pull you around. I read that the Vee tires are notorious for this, and some other tires are much better in this regard. Other people say it's just a characteristic of fat tires in general. It is worse the more you lower the front tire pressure. 
- Effort/fatigue. I was more fatigued towards the end of the ride than usual, mostly in my legs. I also felt a little more out of breathe after some of the climbs. It wasn't a huge difference, maybe 10-20%. I think it's the combination of the much heavier rotating mass of the wheels/tires (5 pounds total more than my 29er wheel/tire combo) and the increased rolling resistance. I also felt like I was using my upper body a little more, perhaps to control the increased gyroscopic forces. I noticed on the Strava segments that involve a lot of climbing, I was significantly slower than usual. 
- Rear tire bounce. I noticed the rear tire feeling "bouncy" at times, such as during seated pedaling. It's a little annoying, but not a big deal. I can probably tune some of that out by running lower rear tire pressure, but my low-pressure gauge hasn't arrived yet, so I'm being conservative to prevent rim strikes for now.

So my overall impression is I really like the fatty so far. With the weather and different trail terrain we experience around here, it would make a great mountain bike for a "one-bike garage", since it's so versatile. I'm really looking forward to snow now! I don't know if I'd recommend one for a very experienced rider who lives in much drier weather without much sand or snow, since I think the downsides outweigh the benefits in that case. At this point, I don't see myself giving up my RIP9, since it's a more efficient bike for longer rides, or trying to keep up with faster riders that I might encounter in group rides. Maybe carbon fat wheels and lighter tires would make up the difference to change my mind, but I've spent enough money at this point.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Stumpy406 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> A couple days ago I swept the leg and pre-ordered a night train bullet. I thought I made a sound decision by ordering the 17.5" but now am concerned I need the 19". I am 5' 11.5" and have a 32" inseam so I'm more torso than legs. My main bike is a Stumpjumper carbon evo 650b in a large and fits me very well.
> 
> ...


Yes, e-mail them with "Urgent: Order Change Request" in the title and request a cancel. After you get the reply, then go order the other size. It can take several days for the refund to show up on your statement, so keep that in mind for your billing cycle.

On riding trips I've rented size Large Specialized Camber and Enduro 29ers, which fit me well, although I can also swing an XL. I bought a size large/19" Sturgis frame with 120mm Bluto and it fits well, but I could have gone XL too. I would gamble that you should go for the 19" at your height, especially on the new builds with the 100mm travel Bluto.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Stumpy406 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> A couple days ago I swept the leg and pre-ordered a night train bullet. I thought I made a sound decision by ordering the 17.5" but now am concerned I need the 19". I am 5' 11.5" and have a 32" inseam so I'm more torso than legs. My main bike is a Stumpjumper carbon evo 650b in a large and fits me very well.
> 
> ...


I am also 5'11 and a bit with a 32" inseam. I have the 17.5" Sturgis. I rode it for the first time on Sunday and I couldn't be more happy with the fit.

My Tallboy LTc is a large. For a snow oriented bike I find the more upright position of my Sturgis to be preferable. I'm liking the 80mm stem. Effective top tube length of both bikes is similar. I'd say the Sturgis runs large in its sizing.

If you want a short stem then I think you would be fine with the 19" though top tube clearence will be less. I found the top tube height just right on the 17.5. I would not want it taller as you feet sink into the snow when you stop. If you only ride on beaches and trail then this may not be a concern for you.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Tips-Up said:


> You're incorrect.
> I rode my Boris for a full year in snow and summer, it's a great bike. Sold it for nearly what I paid (the old adage that these bikes don't maintain value is false). Both frames are aluminum. I think the Boris frame is actually a little lighter than Sturgis but do not have proof.
> 
> I bought a Night Train because it can fit a Lou in the rear (Boris could only do 4") and it has much better rims in the Mulefuts vs. Weinmann. That said, yesterday morning before my ride, I convinced my fiance to buy the $700 Boris as her first fatty! It's as much as she was willing to spend and, from experience, I know the Boris is a great bike. Now the Night Train, with RaceFace cranks, 120 tpi tires, type 2 X9 derailleurs, (nicest, lightest?) tubeless ready aluminum rims, internal cable routing and 5" tire capability made the Sturgis/NT the best value I could find.
> ...


As someone else pointed out, I wrote Boris but obviously meant Lurch, as it was posed in the question. I'm sure the Boris and Lurch are great bikes.

Nor did I say there's a huge difference between brake types, merely pointed to the difference. Some prefer hydro, some prefer mech. I agree, mechs are fine for most. Though how much they're needed is dependent completely on riding style, and I'm not sure of the questioner's.


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## Stumpy406 (Dec 8, 2015)

TheNormsk said:


> I am also 5'11 and a bit with a 32" inseam. I have the 17.5" Sturgis. I rode it for the first time on Sunday and I couldn't be more happy with the fit.
> 
> My Tallboy LTc is a large. For a snow oriented bike I find the more upright position of my Sturgis to be preferable. I'm liking the 80mm stem. Effective top tube length of both bikes is similar. I'd say the Sturgis runs large in its sizing.
> 
> ...


I really appreciate the advice guys. TheNormsk, I agree with you that a lower stand over will be advantageous when riding in the snow a lot, which is the primary reason I am buying this bike. I would rather have a bike that is a bit small versus too big, I used to have a bike that was just a bit too big and I hated it. I think I will stick with the 17.5" and if for some strange reason I just can't stand it I will eat the cost and return it for a 19". 
Thanks again for the advice, I'll probably be looking for more tips when my bike gets here...


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## TIB90 (Dec 8, 2015)

Well... I just ordered a 15.5" Motobecane Night Train (rigid), hopefully I don't have any hanger issues!


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## Urban0x (Jul 3, 2015)

You will


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Stumpy, I would add that if you are young and a XC racer then the 17.5 may feel small. I'm in my mid 40s now and I lost the stretched out race position years ago and have a much more comfortable position now.

However, one a lot of bikes I am between a medium and a large. Often shops will recommend a large to me but a lot of time those are beginning to feel too large. Like you, now I would rather have a bike slightly smaller if on the edge as it is easier to adjust reach with stem length and seat set back than it is to make a large smaller.

Just my 2c.


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## Urban0x (Jul 3, 2015)

I'll add my 2c to sizing,, I have the medium NT bullet and have a long inseam. I love the fit on it but I recently had to purchase a set back seat post because I'm putting to much torque on my knees , I'm 5' 9 and have a 32" in seam, long legs. We did a measUrement and I was 3/4" off for the best pedaling efficiency, set back seat post will fix this. Just hoping I don't have to get a shorter stem now, as I had both Thomson elites and going to end up selling


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## TIB90 (Dec 8, 2015)

Urban0x said:


> You will


Has everyone had issues? What exactly do you have to do to break them on this bike?


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

TIB90 said:


> Has everyone had issues? What exactly do you have to do to break them on this bike?


Not everyone, but many. Some say they break them by leaning the bike on the derailleur side or crashing with an impact to that side. It seems like it would break easy so I don't doubt it's common. It's also a problem with metallurgy in that it could not take bending back at all once it got bent.

They sent a spare once they changed the design a little and I keep it in my pack just in case. I'm still cruising my original after 600 miles mostly dirt in a year.


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## TIB90 (Dec 8, 2015)

Ah... I'm sure I'll be fine then. At any rate, if it breaks I'm not sure I'd be able to blame it on BD. I seem to brake those things on every bike I've ever owned every time I crash hard. Heck, I broke the one on my current road bike before it's maiden voyage (dog knocked bike over while I was putting my shoes on)!


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## Urban0x (Jul 3, 2015)

mine either hit a log or I kicked t maybe, the problem isn't the bending, it's that they can't be bent back into position without breaking because it's aluminum cast. They should bend to protect the rear D but not break so easily


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## TIB90 (Dec 8, 2015)

Ah.... I don't mind braking or bending. Doesn't make a difference to me, bent derailleur hangers don't work right even after you attempt to bend them back.

I always carry spares on me whether I'm riding my road bike or my mountain bike. It's a pretty straight forward repair to swap a hanger on the side of the road/trail.

Last one I broke was on a Specialized 29er, a twig went up and got stock in the RD and locked up the chain. Hanger snapped right off. Luckily I had a spare in my pocket and was back riding in minutes.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Dilligaff said:


> Yes, I know this.
> 
> And both are going by build documents, aka blueprints, and adhere to the mm for the accuracy.
> 
> So there is no reason they shouldn't have the same hanger.


Sorry, your post only talked about model names and location.


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

*EDIT: Holding off on this idea, since Moto decided to change the hanger design for 2016, not sure what's going on with the new bikes or how durable the new hangers are. FML. Hopefully Joe will answer some questions about the change\new hanger.*

With regards to issues with Bullet\Nighttrain hangers being by and large a giant POS, I would like to make an offer to someone who's had multiple hangers fail.

I would like to offer 1 Motobecane Bullet\Nighttrain rider the opportunity for me to purchase and have shipped to you a hanger from mfg Pilo (Derailleur hanger, Mech hanger, Dropout bicycle, Gear hanger, Bash guard - Pilo CNC. D547 derailleur hanger for Motobecane fat bikes) so you can test and see if this hanger is any better than the stock Moto\BD hangers? If you would like to partake, please send me a PM.

Now you maybe wondering why? I have a great deal of interest in purchasing a BD Bullet\Nighttrain bike, however the craptastic hangers has me at odds. I like a lot of things about the bikes - thru-axle, longer headtube than most other mfg, price and components, etc, but I can't deal with another bike in my life that has sh!tty hangers.

Thanks.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Stumpy406 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> A couple days ago I swept the leg and pre-ordered a night train bullet. I thought I made a sound decision by ordering the 17.5" but now am concerned I need the 19". I am 5' 11.5" and have a 32" inseam so I'm more torso than legs. My main bike is a Stumpjumper carbon evo 650b in a large and fits me very well.
> 
> ...


I looked at the cockpit geometry of the bike I was comfortable on.

A small NTB is similar to a medium Ibis tranny. So, that was my decision and I'm happy with it.


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## TIB90 (Dec 8, 2015)

Guy.Ford said:


> With regards to issues with Bullet\Nighttrain hangers being by and large a giant POS, I would like to make an offer to someone who's had multiple hangers fail.
> 
> I would like to offer 1 Motobecane Bullet\Nighttrain rider the opportunity for me to purchase and have shipped to you a hanger from mfg Pilo (Derailleur hanger, Mech hanger, Dropout bicycle, Gear hanger, Bash guard - Pilo CNC. D547 derailleur hanger for Motobecane fat bikes) so you can test and see if this hanger is any better than the stock Moto\BD hangers? If you would like to partake, please send me a PM.
> 
> ...


alternatively you could buy one yourself, stick it in a vice, bend it, see what happens


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Yikes, $50...and I thought $21 was bad for the BD replacements. Pretty proud of these small pieces of Al.


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

It would be nice if they had a picture of it on it's side so you can see if the weak/thin area is changed.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

here's a picture of the new two screw hanger from my 2016 NTB, as requested by @joebikesdirect

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

thomcom said:


> here's a picture of the new two screw hanger from my 2016 NTB, as requested by @joebikesdirect
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


Same as the spare I got for my Sturgis rigid.


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

thomcom said:


> here's a picture of the new two screw hanger from my 2016 NTB, as requested by @joebikesdirect
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


thomcom - this is for the Alu version correct?


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

Guy.Ford said:


> thomcom - this is for the Alu version correct?


Yes

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

thomcom said:


> Yes
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


UGH, jesus christ in hell, WTF is BD\Motobecane doing with these bikes\hangers??!!

Are these new hangers, which I can't imagine are compatible with the older 2015-later bikes supposed to address the issues with the older hangers? If not why the update to the hanger\frame?? WTH is going on @joebikesdirect, what's the skinny??

here are the 3 diff hangers, per discussion...
View attachment 1034472


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Please Keep in mind we've sold thousands of Sturgis/NightTrain Fatbikes.
Several members have been riding theirs for hundreds of miles and over a year without any hanger issues.
The forum posts are only a few examples of people bending their hangers in crashes or falls. 

None of these bending incidents are "just riding along".

With the added weights of fat bikes, falling on the drive side will bend the hanger despite having them beefed up from the first run.

Best regards,
Joe


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

I have the same new hanger with my 2016 Sturgis. I would imagine that the hanger design was updated to fix the issue with the prior year's bike - but I don't know.

I do know that in 24 years of mountain biking that I have never broken a hanger. I have had a breakaway derailleur bolt sheer once but that was it. Now this reminds me that because I said that I will probably suffer a failure so I must remember to put the spare in my pack


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

In over 30 years of MTB riding I have broken and bent numerous derailleur hangers.

Hope these facts are not out of line somehow? Here goes:

Fact: I used to ride Cannondales back in the late 80's and broke a number of those hangers. These were machined hangers.

Fact: I have never broken any Motobecane hangers despite riding nearly every trail in Pisgah/Dupont/Tsali. Including Heartbreak and its 45 minute descent on a hardtail. Some people say Leadville does not count but that's another ride on the same bike/hanger. However, I always carry a spare hanger - just in case. Because walking is not as fun as riding and because I remember what happened in the 80's 

The trouble with these facts is that they are anecdotal and statistically not significant


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

The "claimed 2016 bullet hanger" is absolutely positively the hangar I just got Friday with my 2016 Orange Sturgis rigid. 

I know for a fact because when I took it out of the bag one of the two screws fell on the floor and under my workbench where it will never ever be seen again.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

Aren't these hanger designs entirely new, in the first place? Is the 12mm thru-axle the first time a thru-axle was used in the rear on a bike?

If not, what kind of hangers do other rear thru-axle bikes have?


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

thomcom said:


> Aren't these hanger designs entirely new, in the first place? Is the 12mm thru-axle the first time a thru-axle was used in the rear on a bike?
> 
> If not, what kind of hangers do other rear thru-axle bikes have?


See my pic above. The previous 2015 and earlier Alu Bullet frames all had 12mm QR thru axles and the TI Bullet (new this year) also has a 12mm, however both use a different hanger design than each other and apparently the 2016 Alu Bullet


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

I hope these new hangers are better than the old ones. I went through three on my NTB before I got rid of the bike. 

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

Bluto-equipped Sturgis Bullet here by this weekend, hopefully...:thumbsup:


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## sackheim (May 16, 2009)

mcgurme said:


> I dunno - those Mulefuts on the NightTrain are pretty sweet for this price point. I'm wondering if 100mm would really benefit all that much... Might get more bang for the buck just switching to Bud and Lou tires tubeless if you want max snow performance. I'll be experimenting this winter to see how it goes, but I'll be giving the stock snowshoes some good workouts before trying others. Of course, we average over 100 in of snow per year, so I might need super fatties.
> 
> BTW if you are going to do asymmetrical, I'd do the fatter one up front if you have clearance. In soft/slippery conditions it's a lot better to have more traction in the front than back. If the back wheel slips you can usually recover. If the front wheel slides out first, it often means a wipeout.


Sweet, thanks much for the advice. I was going to order the Bud Lou but opted for the Maxxis Colossus, which is 4.8, cause I got a deal on them at $187 for the pair and they look promising with the snow specific compound and reinforced sidewalls. And then I'll run those tubeless per your suggestion. So. Psyched.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

joebikesdirect said:


> Please Keep in mind we've sold thousands of Sturgis/NightTrain Fatbikes.
> Several members have been riding theirs for hundreds of miles and over a year without any hanger issues.
> The forum posts are only a few examples of people bending their hangers in crashes or falls.
> 
> ...


I could just as soon say not everyone uses MTBR so there are plenty of people who break hangers and don't know any better.
Or maybe the guys on mtbr are the ones using their bikes more than people who aren't.
I think the hangers are weak, but I don't think there's anything that's going to be done about it now.
So, just keep them in stock for us and we'll likely keep buying the $20 hanger.


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## TIB90 (Dec 8, 2015)

Got mine in yesterday.



Haven't had a chance to ride it yet, but my initial thoughts are as follows.


Seat post is too long on the size 15.5", I had to cut it to fit.
Stem is rather cheap, will replace with parts bin item.
My tire pump doesn't start reading PSI until it hits 10 PSI.

I'll report back after I ride it.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

I love the look of this bike in small! I wish I had one around to ride. I also love my large, I'm 6' with a 32" inseam. The small looks super agile and maybe the perfect ratio of tires/bike.


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

*New boots*

Buds raise the top tube! Tubeless setup, even stepping up to 1600+g tires, dropped 620g, 1.4 pounds. Massive tires. Both buds in propulsion mode, may swap front to corner in the future.


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## TIB90 (Dec 8, 2015)

I'm a bit jealous of the tires!! They look sweet! I wish they were notso expensive or I would have a pair on mine.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

Tips-Up said:


> Buds raise the top tube! Tubeless setup, even stepping up to 1600+g tires, dropped 690g, 1.5 pounds. Massive tires. Both buds in propulsion mode, may swap front to corner in the future.
> View attachment 1035004


Hey dude, were you recently selling a Boris on CL? Sweet bike! What size is it?

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

Yeah, do we know each other? This is Boris's replacement - I wanted rear clearance for the big'uns. My fiance got her Boris yesterday, we're hoping for our first fat ride this weekend.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

Tips-Up said:


> Yeah, do we know each other? This is Boris's replacement - I wanted rear clearance for the big'uns. My fiance got her Boris yesterday, we're hoping for our first fat ride this weekend.


I emailed you about it, having done the same thing. Looks like a great place to fat bike. 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## BigZeee (Dec 12, 2015)

*Custom build on Motobecane Sturgis Frame*

Hi

I have just finished a build on Sturgis/Bluto frame. Mostly Shimano XT 1x11 and Race Face Turbine components. The pictures show the set up with summer tires. No off to field testing .


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

Finished mine up the other day, first ride today. Rides great.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

tonyride1 said:


> OK, I just ordered the set. An early Christmas present to myself. The deal was too great and I just couldn't resist.


I got them delivered during the week while I was on the west coast. My wife told me I got a big box so I assumed that was the wheels. Got to check them out today and they look awesome. Can't wait to do the tubeless conversion.
BTW, what exactly does TPI stand for? The original Snowshoes that came with the bike are 72 TPI while the new tires the came with the Mulefut wheelset are 120 but they look identical.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

tonyride1 said:


> I got them delivered during the week while I was on the west coast. My wife told me I got a big box so I assumed that was the wheels. Got to check them out today and they look awesome. Can't wait to do the tubeless conversion.
> BTW, what exactly does TPI stand for? The original Snowshoes that came with the bike are 72 TPI while the new tires the came with the Mulefut wheelset are 120 but they look identical.


Tpi is threads per inch.
Higher tpi tires are lighter and more supple, but in general not as durable.


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

BigZeee said:


> Hi
> 
> I have just finished a build on Sturgis/Bluto frame. Mostly Shimano XT 1x11 and Race Face Turbine components. The pictures show the set up with summer tires. No off to field testing .
> 
> ...


27.5+?

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

tfinator said:


> Tpi is threads per inch.
> Higher tpi tires are lighter and more supple, but in general not as durable.


Thanks. I had a feeling that's what it stood for but wasn't sure what threads it referred to. I guess it's the weave in the rubber of the tire that gives it strength.


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## BigZeee (Dec 12, 2015)

myette10 said:


> 27.5+?
> 
> Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


Yes. Fatty Trax 27.5x3.25 on Hugo 52mm


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

TIB90 said:


> alternatively you could buy one yourself, stick it in a vice, bend it, see what happens


 Here's a better price for the same hanger: D547 derailleur hanger - SOS Hanger


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## Leisureclass (Dec 9, 2015)

Just bought a Sturgis Bullet, They sent me the 2015 instead of the 2016 I ordered :/ Customer service was great, CEO called me a day or 2 after I emailed them and offered to do the return and swap, or discount the 2015. 
I am in Ontario so I went for the discount ... $999 US out the door!







Bike exceeded my expectations! I LOVE it. I can't go for a ride without someone commenting on it.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Leisureclass said:


> Just bought a Sturgis Bullet, They sent me the 2015 instead of the 2016 I ordered :/ Customer service was great, CEO called me a day or 2 after I emailed them and offered to do the return and swap, or discount the 2015.
> I am in Ontario so I went for the discount ... $999 US out the door!
> View attachment 1035535
> 
> Bike exceeded my expectations! I LOVE it. I can't go for a ride without someone commenting on it.


Nice photo!


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## Leisureclass (Dec 9, 2015)

Thanks, here is my fav.


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## Leisureclass (Dec 9, 2015)

Have you tried the Vanhelga's in the snow?


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

BigZeee said:


> Yes. Fatty Trax 27.5x3.25 on Hugo 52mm


What size is the frame? Looks XL(?)

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Hi all - this did take some time to get an answer. The Kinesis factory is quite busy. 

This only pertains to the ALU Sturgis/NightTrain frames 
The Titanium frames have a different hanger due to being made of different materials and by a different mfg.

Here is what they (Kinesis) said 
"Was not our decision, The dropout maker changed their mold"

Good news is the reinforced current gen 1 bolt hangers we sell as #28 are cross compatible with all ALU Sturgis/NightTrain frames 

AFAIK - the extra mounting bolt adds a tiny bit more stability to the hanger when the through axle is taken out. The current hanger is already threaded into by the through axle and secured with 1 bolt.


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## BigZeee (Dec 12, 2015)

myette10 said:


> What size is the frame? Looks XL(?)
> 
> Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


Yes. It is XL


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

Got a little dirt on the tires yesterday evening... Wow what a difference the Bluto makes. Utilizing some of the shipping materials as a 'mudguard' for the test run.



Lest the derailleur hanger conversation dies, here is my spare.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

joebikesdirect said:


> Hi all - this did take some time to get an answer. The Kinesis factory is quite busy. Here is what they (Kinesis) said "Was not our decision, The dropout maker changed their mold".


 That makes sense.


> Good news is the reinforced current gen 1 bolt hangers we sell as #28 are backwards compatible.


 Actually, I think you mean "forward compatible", since you can use the older hanger style on the newer frames. It also appears that in a pinch, a little work with a file would allow the two-bolt hanger to be used on a one-bolt frame. What do you think, Joe?


> AFAIK - the extra mounting bolt adds a tiny bit more stability to the hanger when the through axle is taken out. The current hanger is already threaded into by the through axle and secured with 1 bolt.


 Good point, the screw only supports the hanger when the rear wheel is removed. I wonder if existing frames could be drilled for the second screw, eliminating any compatibility issues? Also, would BD consider purchasing and stocking some of the Pilo hangers for those of us who would be interested in trying them? IF they turn out to be more durable and/or able to be straightened to some degree, it would at least provide another option and may eliminate some of the complaints.


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## dubinjs (Nov 6, 2010)

Finally put some quality wheels on my Night Train. Those Weinmann wheels and Snowshoe tire that come on it are such absolute junk! 









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Bnystrom said:


> That makes sense. Actually, I think you mean "forward compatible", since you can use the older hanger style on the newer frames.


Yes- Will edit for clarity - "the #28 is cross compatible with all Sturgis/NightTrain Aluminum frames"


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

@dubinjs= Sweet Bike 
FYI - current gen Motobecane NightTrain / Sturgis fatbikes are shipping with Mulefut wheelsets. Some people love the SnowShoe tires. Tires tend to be personal/locale based.
AFAIK the Weinmanns are actually decent but I do agree the SunRingle Mulefuts are in the top tier of Aluminum Tubeless compatible fatbike rims 



dubinjs said:


> Finally put some quality wheels on my Night Train. Those Weinmann wheels and Snowshoe tire that come on it are such absolute junk!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

Are you planning to have the '2-screw' hanger available as a replacement at some point then , Joe?

Or should a person just plan on utilizing the 'original one-screw' style as a replacement on the newer model frames?


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

joebikesdirect said:


> Hi all - this did take some time to get an answer. The Kinesis factory is quite busy.
> 
> This only pertains to the ALU Sturgis/NightTrain frames
> The Titanium frames have a different hanger due to being made of different materials and by a different mfg.
> ...


Thanks for the update Joe, good info and nice to know the old hangers work on the newer frame's, smart. ;o)


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## dubinjs (Nov 6, 2010)

joebikesdirect said:


> @dubinjs= Sweet Bike
> FYI - current gen Motobecane NightTrain / Sturgis fatbikes are shipping with Mulefut wheelsets. Some people love the SnowShoe tires. Tires tend to be personal/locale based.
> AFAIK the Weinmanns are actually decent but I do agree the SunRingle Mulefuts are in the top tier of Aluminum Tubeless compatible fatbike rims


Thanks! It's pretty sweet now
I had terrible experiences with the Weinmann rims and those Snowshoe tires last winter. Made the ride miserable actually. Had zero luck setting them up tubeless since the bead lock is virtually non existent. And couldn't run pressure lower than 9-10 psi before the tire would just pull away from the bead. 
The Vee Snowshoes provided me zero traction in the snow. I was all over the place! Like riding on ice. Maybe personal preference, but me personally.....I like to stay in stable contact with the surfaces I'm riding

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

I guess the Snowshoe name is a little misleading, lol...

I was thinking of switching to NRTH45 Husker Du's at some point. They seem to get good reviews for dirt/single track type riding. I likely won't see much in the way of snow useage. But my current fatbike experience consists of about 1.5 miles, so I probably couldn't tell a crap tire from a good tire. (Not implying that Snowshoe is necessarily crap)


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I was thinking of the 45north studded ones, they seem pretty inexpensive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

Bnystrom said:


> would BD consider purchasing and stocking some of the Pilo hangers for those of us who would be interested in trying them?


This would be a great idea.


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

I rode the stock Snowshoes for a few weeks before Surly Buds arrived. At first I hated them, but then I started messing with the pressure and dialed in solid performance. 9-10 PSI for road riding resulted in little self-steer and consistent, predictable, low resistance rolling. Actually dropped down to 1-2 PSI for snow riding and surprised myself by being able to crawl up steep snowy climbs. However, 9-10 sucked for snow and 1-2 was super slow. I'm putting my take-off Snowshoes on my ladyfriend's Boris in place of the V8s.
V8<Snowshoe<Surly Bud


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Finally took the plunge and got the winter ride together...and there's no winter! 31.8 lbs with the XL tires, carbon fork and bar. These bikes really are a steal. Bit of tweaking needed with the derailleur, but pretty much set to go. Worst part is that dang caution sticker...thing is on there pretty good. Can't wait to take her out!


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

dayooper said:


> Finally took the plunge and got the winter ride together...and there's no winter! 31.8 lbs with the XL tires, carbon fork and bar. These bikes really are a steal. Bit of tweaking needed with the derailleur, but pretty much set to go. Worst part is that dang caution sticker...thing is on there pretty good. Can't wait to take her out!
> 
> View attachment 1035699


Looks good! Is that a medium? What sticker? Just the one that says Always Wear A Helmet?

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Thanks...yes on both counts, it's a medium and the safety sticker.


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## happylandings (Apr 30, 2009)

Hello all, I'm curious to know if anyone has found a place to purchase an XD driver that will fit the Novatec rear hub on the Sturgis. I apologize if this has been covered and I missed it. Thanks!


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

dayooper said:


> Finally took the plunge and got the winter ride together...and there's no winter! 31.8 lbs with the XL tires, carbon fork and bar. These bikes really are a steal. Bit of tweaking needed with the derailleur, but pretty much set to go. Worst part is that dang caution sticker...thing is on there pretty good. Can't wait to take her out!
> 
> View attachment 1035699


My sticker will come off tonight. It's not a baby carriage and shouldn't even be on the bike.

Go tubeless and you may get to around 30 pounds. I dropped 1.5 pounds going tubeless and that was replacing the Snowshoes with heavier Nates.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Dilligaff said:


> My sticker will come off tonight. It's not a baby carriage and shouldn't even be on the bike.
> 
> Go tubeless and you may get to around 30 pounds. I dropped 1.5 pounds going tubeless and that was replacing the Snowshoes with heavier Nates.


I forgot to mention, I did go to the Q-tube superlights (just over a half pound each) and saved 0.82 lb per tire (kept stock rim strips). Though I then added another 100-150 grams back with the XLs. I agree, I could maybe get it down to 31 or so with new rim strips and tubeless but figured I'd see how it goes this winter. If this turns into an all-season bike I'll definitely go tubeless. There's weight to be lost in the seat area for sure.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

The OEM rim strip was 140g and the Sun Ringle strip is 50g, the 3 oz of Stans weighed 100g, just for reference. A single strip of Zip Tape over the SunRingle weighed 30g.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Dilligaff said:


> The OEM rim strip was 140g and the SunRingle strip is 50g, the 3 oz of Stans weighed 100g, just for reference.


Nice, thanks. Definitely over a pound to lose there then.


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

THIS BIKE HAS SO MUCH TRACTION!!!!!


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Wow- 31.8 with pedals and did not convert to tubeless?
We converted a Mulefut wheel to tubeless and lost about 1.6 lbs using 2oz sealant and SunRingle tape/rim strip. So net weight loss possible is at least 3 lbs total.
Your bike might be sub 29 lbs when you convert to tubeless 

Edit- Since you already saved .82 lbs per tire going to superlight tubes then the tubeless conversion would save you another .82/lbs per wheel so 30ish lbs which is still awesome 



Dilligaff said:


> My sticker will come off tonight. It's not a baby carriage and shouldn't even be on the bike.
> 
> Go tubeless and you may get to around 30 pounds. I dropped 1.5 pounds going tubeless and that was replacing the Snowshoes with heavier Nates.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

NDTransplant said:


> THIS BIKE HAS SO MUCH TRACTION!!!!!


Sweet pics - got video? Looks like the upper Columbine climb at Leadville...


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Hi - AFAIK World Cup race winning XC skier Espen Bjervig helped to test these SnowShoe tires for VeeRubber so they should grip snow pretty well. I have heard pressures need to be around 5psi though. Many gauges don't register any pressure that low or precisely around single digits.



dubinjs said:


> Thanks! It's pretty sweet now
> I had terrible experiences with the Weinmann rims and those Snowshoe tires last winter. Made the ride miserable actually. Had zero luck setting them up tubeless since the bead lock is virtually non existent. And couldn't run pressure lower than 9-10 psi before the tire would just pull away from the bead.
> The Vee Snowshoes provided me zero traction in the snow. I was all over the place! Like riding on ice. Maybe personal preference, but me personally.....I like to stay in stable contact with the surfaces I'm riding
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

Apparently I should have gotten a medium because I scraped the paint on the top tube today for the fourth time, this time with Yak Trax on when I hopped on for a short spin after snow blowing.

I didn't ride long because my whole family has a cough, but I was surprised at how little float I felt in ~7" of snow. Hopefully it is just because I wasn't clipped in and therefor wasn't pedaling naturally...


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

My house got 10" of powder today and it's still snowing. I thought I would test out the bike in deep powder. I got about 10ft. The 4.5 snowshoes are a really terrible snow tire. No float and the front just self steers to oblivion.

I'll have to wait for the trails to get pack down and see about buying some bud/lou.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

You're going to need beach balls for 10" of fresh powder!


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

The snowshoes were the first thing I removed from the bike, the self steer was horrible around 5-6 psi. I swapped on the Nates from my Pug and they were much better. 

Snow above about 6" can cause problems and 10" is just asking too much, perhaps the 2XL would be better.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

It depends on the type of snow, but generally the fresh stuff just has too little bearing capacity...and a couple hundred pounds distributed over a square foot or two isn't going to float. You could throw down a 4x4 sheet of plywood, jump on, and you'd still sink 6". Not saying you couldn't move through it for a bit with bigger tires, but it will still be painful and won't last long.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

I new it was ambitions and probably wouldn't work but I wanted to try it 

The place I was thinking of going to tonight got 16+ inches of snow so I'm figuring I won't be heading out today. It needs to stop snowing first and so settle down. Then I'll have a chance.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

I don't blame ya...I'm super jealous and wish we had the snow to try it!


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

You just need something....wider. You just need to think outside the box.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

When the snow gets _really_ deep, not much you can do. Put yer skis on! Jealous of you guys that are getting some. This winter has been weak so far here...

I thought that the SnowShoes performed admirably last winter. I climbed up some decent hills with only a little bit of rear wheel spin. And that's with the non-XLL 4.5s. I was pleased. This requires low PSI, of course. And low PSI on pavement leads to self steer and all that. But I avoided pavement or adjusted tire pressure if I did have to run a good stretch of it.

My only gripes on the Snowshoes would be that one of them came out with a poor mold. A bit of a side-to-side deviation that I find annoying. If I would've noticed this promptly, I probably would've contacted Bikes Direct. But I didn't notice it right away, so I opted to "suck it up". So- new bike owners, you might do well to check that. Try reseating the bead a couple time first. If that doesn't help, it's probably a defect. Damn if I didn't wind up with another defective tire too that I bought new off of ebay (A Racing Ralph for my 29er) and yet another tire (a Conti) the year before that I bought locally so needless to say, I'm eyeballing all of my new tires carefully nowadays. These tire mfgrs ought to keep a closer eye on quality. Vittoria has been perfect for me thus far - arrow straight. But they don't make Fat tires!


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

6-8 inches: ridable, as long as I'm on a flat or going downhill. I was able to make my way uphill on maybe a 0.5-1% grade. Anything steeper and I'd stop. Avoid your granny gear - too much torque was preventing my SnowShoes from gripping. Running in 3rd gear was easy enough to work it and hard enough to maintain traction.










Maintained epic float brah










Derailleur hanger was kind enough to hold out for one more ride










Bonus fatsuit pic


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Dilligaff said:


> You just need something....wider. You just need to think outside the box.
> 
> View attachment 1035830
> 
> ...


That's ALOTTA tire right nyer. Better go with a REALLY stiff BB/crank spindle... Or there could be just a liiiiiiiiiitle bit of flex on that drive side. Subscribed for the YouTube videos! Due to the lack of room for a foot to make rotations on the drive side, I suppose they might just be planning to put a motor on it. Gah!


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

thomcom said:


> 6-8 inches: ridable, as long as I'm on a flat or going downhill. I was able to make my way uphill on maybe a 0.5-1% grade. Anything steeper and I'd stop. Avoid your granny gear - too much torque was preventing my SnowShoes from gripping. Running in 3rd gear was easy enough to work it and hard enough to maintain traction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice Bike snow angel! Tough to do much in that fresh stuff. But it's still fun to try.... somebody's gotta lay down first tracks, right?!:thumbsup:


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

It's getting a Pinion box and the chain will supposedly be between the rear wheels. It's still a work in progress. 

If it can be done, those guys can do it.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

thomcom said:


> 6-8 inches: ridable, as long as I'm on a flat or going downhill. I was able to make my way uphill on maybe a 0.5-1% grade. Anything steeper and I'd stop. Avoid your granny gear - too much torque was preventing my SnowShoes from gripping. Running in 3rd gear was easy enough to work it and hard enough to maintain traction.


You in the Front Range area by chance?


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

TheNormsk said:


> My house got 10" of powder today and it's still snowing. I thought I would test out the bike in deep powder. I got about 10ft. The 4.5 snowshoes are a really terrible snow tire. No float and the front just self steers to oblivion.
> 
> I'll have to wait for the trails to get pack down and see about buying some bud/lou.


I'm going to retract my comment. I went out again, just playing around the house and the 12" we got today has settled now and crisped up. I dropped the tires to 2 psi and I was able to ride though everything I aimed it at.

It was very entertaining! Our drive and road may not count as trail but who cares when you have a foot of snow to play on.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

TheNormsk said:


> You in the Front Range area by chance?


Yeah! Erie. Tomorrow I'm hoping to post pics from the Erie Single Track.

Thrashing the neighborhood is one of my favorite things to do on fat. Riding through drifts for 45 minutes is incredible exercise! 



athletical said:


> snow angel


Thanks! Yeah it was fun. My lungs weren't entirely up to the task but I'm not hacking and it is hours later now. Tomorrow the trail will be beaten and much more rideable!  I had to try it. Since riding up is so hard, tomorrow I'm going to have the wife drive me to the top of the single track and descend it, 200' or so and 2.5 miles to home.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

^^^ excellent! I'm in Louisville and ride up to Erie from time to time. My son loves the Blue Line. 

I went out with my daughter (she snow shoed) last night in the open space near us. The MUPs were easy but the single track was hard going. I probably walked 80% of it. Shoe snows were quicker.


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

TheNormsk said:


> My house got 10" of powder today and it's still snowing. I thought I would test out the bike in deep powder. I got about 10ft. The 4.5 snowshoes are a really terrible snow tire. No float and the front just self steers to oblivion.
> 
> I'll have to wait for the trails to get pack down and see about buying some bud/lou.


c'mon man... think about 10" of powder and what it would take to just keep yourself on top of that while not moving. The bike's not magic and your experience here doesn't make that tire terrible in the snow.

edit: I'm not saying that it isn't terrible in the snow, it very well may be. I've never used it. Only saying that this shouldn't be the experience set upon which that is determined.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Dilligaff said:


> It's getting a Pinion box and the chain will supposedly be between the rear wheels. It's still a work in progress.
> 
> If it can be done, those guys can do it.


^^^I figured someone would try this.
From http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/next-big-mt-biking-innovation-994474.html


Fleas said:


> Someone's going to make a fatbike with (2) 5" tires side-by-side on each axle. The chain will run between the rear wheels and instead of a derailleur moving the chain back and forth over the cassette, the cassette will slide back-and-forth on a spline and the chain will stay on the same line.
> 
> I'm going to invent a new fatbike tire pump that is smaller, lighter, and better than anything currently available. That's not a big "innovation" - just convenient.
> 
> -F


-F


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

AthleticAL said:


> ...
> 
> My only gripes on the Snowshoes would be that one of them came out with a poor mold. A bit of a side-to-side deviation that I find annoying. If I would've noticed this promptly, I probably would've contacted Bikes Direct. But I didn't notice it right away, so I opted to "suck it up". So- new bike owners, you might do well to check that. Try reseating the bead a couple time first. If that doesn't help, it's probably a defect. Damn if I didn't wind up with another defective tire too that I bought new off of ebay (A Racing Ralph for my 29er) and yet another tire (a Conti) the year before that I bought locally so needless to say, I'm eyeballing all of my new tires carefully nowadays. These tire mfgrs ought to keep a closer eye on quality. Vittoria has been perfect for me thus far - arrow straight. But they don't make Fat tires!


Unusually high incidence... :skep:
Did you try some glass cleaner on the tire bead when mounting the tire? It allows even sticky tires to self-align pretty easily.

-F


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

And here I go again...

The rear hub has made a loud "click" from time to time when applying heavy pedal pressure since new. Usu. from a stop. I have finally determined that it is one of the ratchet pawls. I don't know if it is engaging or disengaging when it clicks but I'm open to suggestions on preventing a cat a$$ trophy. So far the ratchet is clean and lubed with a light grease/oil mixture. I am going to take it apart to see if there is evidence of wear/damage.

-F


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

Fleas said:


> And here I go again...
> 
> The rear hub has made a loud "click" from time to time when applying heavy pedal pressure since new. Usu. from a stop. I have finally determined that it is one of the ratchet pawls. I don't know if it is engaging or disengaging when it clicks but I'm open to suggestions on preventing a cat a$$ trophy. So far the ratchet is clean and lubed with a light grease/oil mixture. I am going to take it apart to see if there is evidence of wear/damage.
> 
> -F


I can tell you exactly what you'll find. There will be some scoring on the leading edge of one or more on the pawls. The spring will likely be blown out too. Stop riding it. Email novatec and ask for new pawls and a spring. Offer to pay but expect to be comped. Clean everything and reinstall new pawls/spring. Lube with 10w30 motor oil. Make sure to tighter dust washer on opposite side of hub frequently.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

even with my bud/lou on a 29 lbs sturgis I cannot pedal when it gets this deep.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

I found a justification to put a dropper on the Sturgis! Thought I would not need one but trying to ride on fresh snow (up to a foot in places - I walked a lot) I found it hard to get going unless I was seated keeping the weight on the back. It's hard to be seated however when one's feet are 4-6 inches below the tires  I'm finding out that the tread gets packed down but the side stays soft and deep.

I need to drop the saddle more for the many starts and riding in deep stuff and then be able to raise it for when I am going. Don't have the money right now though - I'd rather improve the tires. Still, perhaps next year.... For now a quick release will suffice.


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> View attachment 1036024
> 
> 
> even with my bud/lou on a 29 lbs sturgis I cannot pedal when it gets this deep.


but it looks good trying! fun pic, thanks for sharing


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

TheNormsk said:


> I found a justification to put a dropper on the Sturgis! Thought I would not need one but trying to ride on fresh snow (up to a foot in places - I walked a lot) I found it hard to get going unless I was seated keeping the weight on the back. It's hard to be seated however when one's feet are 4-6 inches below the tires  I'm finding out that the tread gets packed down but the side stays soft and deep.
> 
> I need to drop the saddle more for the many starts and riding in deep stuff and then be able to raise it for when I am going. Don't have the money right now though - I'd rather improve the tires. Still, perhaps next year.... For now a quick release will suffice.


Darn you for pointing this out before me!  I use my dropper very often riding in the snow, it is probably more important than stand-over. Snow is a lot more reasonable when your weight is all already settled before you start pedaling. I have the TMars 27.2 3-position mechanical dropper, I'm really pretty pleased with it. There's a lot of play in the saddle now, and I sometimes wonder how much better that felt, but the dropper action is crucial!


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

@thomcom You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to thomcom again.
Nice Pics ! Got more?


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Fleas said:


> Unusually high incidence... :skep:
> Did you try some glass cleaner on the tire bead when mounting the tire? It allows even sticky tires to self-align pretty easily.
> 
> -F


My kid's front tire had a horrible wobble to it. We were going riding the next morning no matter what so I deflated it but did not break the bead. I massaged it and reinflated it and it's better but not quite acceptable in my view.

I am going to pop the bead and see if I can't fix it or I am going to have contact BD.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

^^ Fleas, these tires of mine (1 Vee, 1 Schwalbe, 1 Conti) are defects. The Conti is the worst. Hop _and_ a wobble [the wheel is round and true] But that's on me for not returning them. The Conti was mail-order and I didn't want the hassle. Whatever, it's on my original MTB (converted to a commuter) and I put it on the front where I can live with it (that bike gets very limited use - that tire will dry rot before it gets worn to the point of replacement).

But the Windex is a good idea. You can also use a little soapy water in a spray bottle.

Alas, I tried. The Vee is annoying but not the worst in my bunch of baddies.

.....

Good luck with that rear hub. Keep us posted. Looks like Myette has some good advice from direct experience.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

*F/R derailleur question/recommendation*

I kind of have a more technical question than fat bike specific. I don't like the SRAM drive train that came with my 2015 Sturgis Bullet and I'm going to replace the front and rear derailleurs and shifters with Shimano SLX. I got a good deal on a set of 2x10 SLX Dyna-Sys shifters so now I'm looking to get the derailleurs. According to the spec sheet from BD it looks like the X7 rear derailleur that comes with the SB is the clutch type with a long cage. So I'm looking for a Shimano RD to match that for fit and function and I came across a couple of them with long cage that look like will work (XT RD-M780, SLX RD-M670 SGS). There's also mentions of direct mount, SGS/GS. So I'm a bit confused. What specifications should I look for in a RD that will work. I'm looking at either XT or SLX. I'll tackle that first before worrying about the front derailleur with all the different mounting options, up/down pull, etc... unless you have that info handy also then I'll take it. Thanks.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

@tonyride1: you will need- any 2x10 Shimano shifters, Plus direct mount rear der with Clutch which is 10 spd compatible. SGS is long cage and more versatile.

Non-clutch is not as versatile but some may like it for 2x10 does not require a clutch rear der. If you ever decide to go 1x then having clutch and SGS will be more future-proof 



tonyride1 said:


> I kind of have a more technical question than fat bike specific. I don't like the SRAM drive train that came with my 2015 Sturgis Bullet and I'm going to replace the front and rear derailleurs and shifters with Shimano SLX. I got a good deal on a set of 2x10 SLX Dyna-Sys shifters so now I'm looking to get the derailleurs. According to the spec sheet from BD it looks like the X7 rear derailleur that comes with the SB is the clutch type with a long cage. So I'm looking for a Shimano RD to match that for fit and function and I came across a couple of them with long cage that look like will work (XT RD-M780, SLX RD-M670 SGS). There's also mentions of direct mount, SGS/GS. So I'm a bit confused. What specifications should I look for in a RD that will work. I'm looking at either XT or SLX. I'll tackle that first before worrying about the front derailleur with all the different mounting options, up/down pull, etc... unless you have that info handy also then I'll take it. Thanks.


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

I bought an XT front derailleur off eBay... It is an etype (2 bolts) the derailleur is top or bottom pull... my 2016 Bullet Frame only is bottom pull... it works fine.... $20 on ebay.

Also get an XT rear with clutch.... I think you can find them for right around $55ish.... mine works great.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

@steve - should you change your signature since you have a Motobecane NightTrain Bullet? 



Steve Javorsky said:


> I bought an XT front derailleur off eBay... It is an etype (2 bolts) the derailleur is top or bottom pull... my 2016 Bullet Frame only is bottom pull... it works fine.... $20 on ebay.
> 
> Also get an XT rear with clutch.... I think you can find them for right around $55ish.... mine works great.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## JPaul (Sep 18, 2010)

tonyride1 said:


> ...I'll tackle that first before worrying about the front derailleur with all the different mounting options, up/down pull, etc...


You should be all set using your new SLX front shifter with the existing front derailleur -> rear spacing is different between Shimano and SRAM, but front is the same.

This assumes you aren't having any problems with the SRAM front der., just prefer the action/performance of a Shimano drivetrain.

Hoping to save you some time/$$$.

Cheers,
Paul


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

joebikesdirect said:


> @steve - should you change your signature since you have a Motobecane NightTrain Bullet?


Yes, I need to get that done..... and retire / remove the Minnesota 3.0

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

@joebikesdirect, @Steve, @JPaul, Thanks a bunch, gentlemen. That's just the info I'm looking for. No problems with the SRAM FD so I'll stick with it. I love this forum.


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

Found what looked like a black rigid fork from a Trek Farley for winter use. Oh well purple was my favorite color when I was 6









Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

^^ Fan of Prince?? No. Color-coded? Purple is for the cold weather. That's it!

Well there ya go, then. OR... there's always spray paint...


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Better your fork being purple than other "members" from frost bite


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

LOL - You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TheNormsk again.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Speaking of front derailleur from earlier posts I notice that the bottom routing of the shift cable leaves it poorly exposed to snow/mud ingress into the housing. 

May I expect problems with this down the road and any tips to help protect/prevent water intrusion into the shift cable?


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

@theNormsk - high marks for Gore/Sram Pro sealed cable sytem - it's amazing stuff 



TheNormsk said:


> Speaking of front derailleur from earlier posts I notice that the bottom routing of the shift cable leaves it poorly exposed to snow/mud ingress into the housing.
> 
> May I expect problems with this down the road and any tips to help protect/prevent water intrusion into the shift cable?


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

More Night Train Bullet:










Did "pretty well" in ~6" of cold dry powder at the top of Sunwest East. I first went down Blue Line, which was foolish as it is more protected and I should have expected lots of drifts. I had little control most of the time, and my front wheel could get no purchase with a set of cross country tracks interfering. Descending 80' over .6 miles or so, I walked or pushed maybe 1/3rd of the way. The rest was riding, though tensely and laboriously. Riding back up on the once-plowed gravel service road was comparatively candy.

I went down Green Line next, which was great! I had fresh tracks - the xcers went up red and down blue so green was still perfect. Depth of snow varied from 0.1" at the tops of the jumps to ~16" through the drifts that built up at the bottoms of all jumps and berms. I dabbed once or twice and had to walk 20' twice, otherwise I rode the whole way down and it was sweeeeet. I was so tired at the bottom I rode back up the service road with one eye open.

I really want to turn my front SnowShoe tire around - I think it has the opposite of desired characteristics for a front tire. The rear SnowShoe propels well once it has the right cadence through all kinds of snow, but falls into ruts aggressively (I remember someone else commenting on this in the past). I wonder how much more doable Blue Line would have been with our good pals Bud/Lou, the $260 tire combo.

When you are trying to press through very deep snow, pull your weight back as far as you can - your front tire becomes more of a ski than a tire. Propel forward and keep your front wheel straight. I was able to power over dozens of jumps at ~5mph with this.

I tried the "car wash cleanup method" on my way home, having driven, so now my NTB is drying off fresh and clean in the living room. The Guide RS brakes failed _completely_ after bring sprayed with a warm water mist, then allowed to freeze on the short drive home. With five to ten pumps of the brakes I got a little bit of stopping power, but they were mostly just failed. Maybe this is just because of ice on my discs.


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

*Sturgis frame bag*

Picked up a Bushwhacker frame bag for the small Sturgis... kinda fits okay.
































I can still fit a few small things in there plus my packable windbreaker....


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

TheNormsk said:


> Speaking of front derailleur from earlier posts I notice that the bottom routing of the shift cable leaves it poorly exposed to snow/mud ingress into the housing.
> 
> May I expect problems with this down the road and any tips to help protect/prevent water intrusion into the shift cable?


I have been having good luck with clear silicon and the factory plastic grommets already there for both the factory housing and the jagwire housing I upgraded to. I put silicon on both sides of the grommet and it has proven to be water proof yet still easily removable.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

cfanto said:


> Picked up a Bushwhacker frame bag for the small Sturgis... kinda fits okay.
> 
> View attachment 1036298
> 
> ...


Ha Ha Ha! Add another dozen CO2 cartridges, and then you're getting close.


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## Pedal Dammit (Dec 10, 2015)

*New Night Train*

Got my new Night Train and put on a few goodies:

Race Face Atlas Bar
Race Face Atlas Stem
Peaty Grips
OneUp 1x10 with 42/16T
Race Face 30T Front Chainring
Race Face Evolve Seat Post
WTB Volt Saddle
Azonic Seat Post Clamp
Shimano PD M530 pedals
Fatty Strippers Tubeless Set-up (in mail)

All in $1945

Rode the last two days here in Tahoe and having fun figuring out this fat bike thing!


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

watermonkey said:


> Ha Ha Ha! Add another dozen CO2 cartridges, and then you're getting close.


Actually, I have 1 in chamber, 3 in the tool wallet & another 2 in a neoprene case (not shown)


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

How many CO2 carts does it take to inflate to 6psi?


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

TheNormsk said:


> How many CO2 carts does it take to inflate to 6psi?


I don't know if this helps but it took me 2 cartridges to inflate mine then I topped it off with a hand pump to bring it to around 10 psi for a 4.5" tire. Not exactly your situation and I don't know the size of your tire but I guess you can use my info as a point of reference. FWIW, I carry at least 3 cartridges and a patch kit just in case.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

TheNormsk said:


> Speaking of front derailleur from earlier posts I notice that the bottom routing of the shift cable leaves it poorly exposed to snow/mud ingress into the housing.
> 
> May I expect problems with this down the road and any tips to help protect/prevent water intrusion into the shift cable?


Normsk, I've had my SB in the creek over the axles (I have a video in here someplace - I rode up a waterfall!). I poured a cup of water out of the frame. Cables are fine. They are full length housings so water can only enter at the cable ends.

-F


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Edit- see next post


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

AthleticAL said:


> I go thru water fairly often myself (usually not deep enough to douse my feet). After this ride the other day...


I decided to pierce a cap and silicone it in place to help keep the gunk out some. The stock cable ends seem decent, but that's a cranny that I decided to try to keep the mud out of. #ghettofix










Sent from my C6725 using Tapatalk


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

I need more CO2. Yesterday's ride transitioned from deep pow to dry bike path, then back to more pow. I started riding at 3.5/5 F/R, don't think a better tire exists than the Bud's for snow.








I bought a "high volume" Lenzyne pump last year with my MTB and fat bike in mind. I alternated arms at 60 pumps, 120 total = 1 PSI. Another 100, another 1/2. Luckily I was near the LBS and they have a compressor out front. Juiced up to 10/15, hammered some paved miles until the next destination, then dumped back down to 5/7.









So much of how a fat bike rides is really just the tires and air pressure, and there's a lot to that. Lots of experimentation, but once you get it right, the world opens up.


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

Tips-Up said:


> ...I bought a "high volume" Lenzyne pump last year with my MTB and fat bike in mind. I alternated arms at 60 pumps, 120 total = 1 PSI. Another 100, another 1/2. Luckily I was near the LBS and they have a compressor out front. Juiced up to 10/15, hammered some paved miles until the next destination, then dumped back down to 5/7....


I have found their micro floor drive version to work well if you are looking for a light-weight upgrade. Lezyne - Engineered Design - Products - Hand Pumps - High Volume - Micro Floor Drive HV/HVG


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## DGOJosh (Sep 11, 2009)

strengthxcycle said:


> View attachment 1029253
> View attachment 1029254
> View attachment 1029255
> View attachment 1029256


Sick Rig stregthxcycle!!! I dig the Misfits sticker on the purple! Are you pretty happy with your Crater packs?


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I am absolutely LOVING this bike, it's so much different from the Pugsley. I can huck it better through the woods, ride it easier over rougher terrain, and manual the front end anytime I want. The Pugsley is a find bike but rides so much more like a tractor whereas this is more like a regular mountain bike. I blasted down one hill and was cranking along when I noticed the stream at the bottom. I figured I had enough speed to clear it, but I was wrong. The rear wheel landed exactly wrong and I expected to find a dented rim. There wasn't' a dent but the Stans was definitely doing its job and sealed quickly against the edge. I ran 10 psi in the rear Nate and it took the hit like a trooper. Next time I'll just have to go faster to clear it. 

Definitely a worthwhile purchase. 

I am still quite sick but figured if the ride killed me, at least I'd die happy. I've had the bike for weeks and it now only has 6 miles on it.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

OK, new set of problems. The "great" deal I got for a set of SLX shifters are the I-Spec B variety so I can't directly mount them to the handle bar. Is anyone aware of adapters that will allow those shifters to be clamped right next to the non-Shimano brake levers? Thanks.


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

tonyride1 said:


> OK, new set of problems. The "great" deal I got for a set of SLX shifters are the I-Spec B variety so I can't directly mount them to the handle bar. Is anyone aware of adapters that will allow those shifters to be clamped right next to the non-Shimano brake levers? Thanks.


I believe ProblemSolvers may have something... possibly the MisMatch 2.0's?
Problem Solvers


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## JPaul (Sep 18, 2010)

I think that cfanto is right for the case that your "non-Shimano" brakes are SRAM Matchmaker-based. ProblemSolvers must make something for this, just make sure that you get the right model (there is a reason for the many model numbers!).

Unfortunately with the ProblemSolvers adapters @ the SLX component level, it is very likely that just purchasing the correct shifters will be both cheaper and quicker/easier to source. For example:
Shimano SLX M670 Shifter Set New No PCKG > Components > Drivetrain > Mountain Shifters | Jenson USA
(these appear to have the appropriate clamps, but may be worth chatting with Jenson to confirm at time of purchase)

Of course, if your current brakes aren't SRAM/Matchmaker, I'd just go ahead and get the new shifters. I've not seen a standalone clamp for ispec shifters (not an expert, seems they should exist?), but I imagine they'd be as spendy.

Buying new shifters/selling ispecs to help offset costs is likely least hassle!

Good luck getting all set up!
Paul


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Looks like I better just get a new set of shifters. Thanks guys.


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## eetiludie (Jan 11, 2012)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> received my 15.5 sturgis today. size is perfect. glad I went with smaller for standover reasons.
> 
> switched out parts with carbon ones. formula oro brakes. was happy with all the weight I was losing, but I think I put it all back on with the bud and lou tires. it's looking like it will be around 28-29lbs when done. still waiting on pedals, grips and saddle.
> 
> ...


Are those Bud/Lou mounted on 80 or 100mm rims? Think they'll fit with 100mm rims?

I'm looking at the 15.5in model as well. You mentioned it fit you well, how tall are you? thanks


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

eetiludie said:


> Are those Bud/Lou mounted on 80 or 100mm rims? Think they'll fit with 100mm rims?
> 
> I'm looking at the 15.5in model as well. You mentioned it fit you well, how tall are you? thanks


I am 5'10", 30" inseam. 90mm stem and 175mm cranks. All fits nicely. When I step off into deep snow it's not too bad. I am on 80mm rims. The bluto up front can handle 100 mm rims. And I think the frame will do it too, but I don't know for sure. There is room still left over.


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## eetiludie (Jan 11, 2012)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> I am 5'10", 30" inseam. 90mm stem and 175mm cranks. All fits nicely. When I step off into deep snow it's not too bad. I am on 80mm rims. The bluto up front can handle 100 mm rims. And I think the frame will do it too, but I don't know for sure. There is room still left over.


I hear the Lou is about 10mm wider on 100s over 80s. Think it's got an extra 5mm on each side on the stays plus some clearance to fit?

I'm only 5'4 so only the smallest size will possibly fit. If you get a free moment, mind throwing a tape measure on the stand over height?

Many thanks for the info!


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## strengthxcycle (Dec 15, 2012)

Thanks!! Deffinatly pleased with the crater packs! Rich is a really good guy I had another bag for an old bike made from him a couple years ago.


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## mcgurme (Apr 15, 2007)

Well, I rode too much in the snow last week, then got laid up with a massive head cold, but at least that gave me time to install the FattyStrippers.

This is a great way of going tubeless. Easy peasy.

It took me several hours as I was taking my time, and it was my first time doing the tubeless switch myself. The tire beads on the Snowshoes were a bit tough to get off, but standing on them worked 

The install was easy, and sealing it all up was done with a floor pump. I didn't have to use my air tank. Way easier than my 29er Stans setup!

This definitely lightened her up... With new seat, bars, tubeless, she feels like around 30 lbs, but I haven't tried the scales.

Have fun biking! There's too much snow here for anything but "snow packed road riding".

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## moopey (Sep 1, 2013)

I ordered a 2016 Sturgis Bullet on Friday in white.....got the shipping notification yesterday. It was saying christmas eve delivery which sounded awesome to have it for the weekend. But I checked this morning for an update and there is some sort of delay and now no delivery date shown. Fingers crossed I still get xmas eve or it only pushes to saturday. I'm pretty excited to get this bike. 

I had a Specialized Fatboy that I sold after winter and regretted it. But I new I wanted a bluto, different shifters, and some other parts and I just didn't want to drop $1k into that already expensive bike.


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

moopey said:


> I ordered a 2016 Sturgis Bullet on Friday in white.....got the shipping notification yesterday. QUOTE]
> 
> Congratulations! My wife loves her new 2016 Sturgis Bullet. We just converted it to tubeless and she loves it even more.
> Pretty funny -- last year when I got my Boris X9 Bluto, she thought fat bikes were silly. Now, she not only owns one, she loves riding it! LOL Another convert!
> ...


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Allamuchy Joe said:


> moopey said:
> 
> 
> > I ordered a 2016 Sturgis Bullet on Friday in white.....got the shipping notification yesterday. QUOTE]
> ...


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

tonyride1 said:


> Allamuchy Joe said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah but I bet you can't convert a Doofus.
> ...


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Jeff_G said:


> My kid's front tire had a horrible wobble to it. We were going riding the next morning no matter what so I deflated it but did not break the bead. I massaged it and reinflated it and it's better but not quite acceptable in my view.
> 
> I am going to pop the bead and see if I can't fix it or I am going to have contact BD.


FYI after a few miles the tire is straight.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

I picked up an Ebay 34.9mm seat post clamp for $1.79 with free shipping because lots of people always want to try my Sturgis Bullet.
(I don't even know how the economics of that can work at $1.79 :???

But I found that the seat post does not only stop at the top bottle cage bolt, the ID of the seat tube changes at that point as well, so even if you mill a slot in your seat post like I did, it will not slide past the bottle cage bolts. The seat tube has a "step" in it. And I can't shorten my seat post. So my guest riders will just have to ride tall. 

-F


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

The seat tube is evidently butted. That shouldn't be a surprise and it's a good thing.


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

Thought I would share some photos of my built Bullet. The more I ride this bike the more I like it. The Vanhelgas are great in the snow. Everything is XT , Mulefut with DT Swiss and Sapim Spokes. Rides awesome.














































Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

*Hit 700 miles today!*








Thanks mostly to this bike I hit 700 miles of trail this year!

Love this bike!!!


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

DGOJosh said:


> Bikeman SRAM Maxle Ultimate Rear MTB, 12x197mm (Length 229mm, Thread Length 20mm, Thread Pitch M12x1.75), Bl


The cam on my OEM rear thru axle broke yesterday and my LBS had the above item in stock and it *is not *the right thread pitch for the Sturgis/Nighttrain. We're scrambling to find the right one. He had an entry level Scott fat bike on the floor had the exact same rear axle as our Motos but all of the other Scott models and all of his Salsas a rear axle with the thread pitch of the one listed above.

If you find the right axle please be sure to 1) post a link to it here and 2) buy two for yourself.

Maybe Joe can comment on this.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

How did it break?

What is the proper thru-axle and pitch?


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## moopey (Sep 1, 2013)

Still waiting for my Sturgis to show up....been doing a little more reading and have a couple questions.

Does anyone know where to order spare axles or what Sram model numbers they may be? I like to keep spares on hand to avoid downtime.

Has there been a confirmed installation of the 2015 billet version of the derailleur hanger on the 2016 model? This is a part I'd like to have on hand as well.

Also, my main goal for getting a fat bike with a bluto is to have a bike I can use more in the summer as well. I see on bikesdirect.com that they offer 27+ and 29+ wheel options. Has anyone tried these out? The Sturgis page links directly to the 29+ wheels but I'm assuming the 27+ versions will work as well? The specs look similar to me, though I'm no expert. The only concern I have is the width of the rims. they seem kind of narrow (25mm) for a "plus" installation. When I look at some surly "plus tires" they require at least a 35mm rim.

PAIR of 27 PLUS FatBike WTB TCS Tubeless Compatible Wheels + FREE Tires: VeeRubber TraxFatty 27.5x3.25 inch

PAIR of 29 PLUS FatBike WTB TCS Tubeless Compatible Wheels + FREE Tires: VeeRubber TraxFatty 29x3 inch

Any info would be greatly appreciated while I impatiently wait for the arrival of my sturgis. haha. Thanks everyone.


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## moopey (Sep 1, 2013)

Sorry to ask the same question about the axles as the last two posts. It took me a while to write the entry and post.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I just checked the thread pitch on my NTB Ti and have confirmed it is 12mmx1.75. The tap went right in with no problem.


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

Dilligaff said:


> I just checked the thread pitch on my NTB Ti and have confirmed it is 12mmx1.75. The tap went right in with no problem.


That's not the same as the aluminum bike then, although I don't know what it is or have a gauge to measure. I just know its not the same as the maxle posted earlier which seems to be the same as yours.


moopey said:


> Still waiting for my Sturgis to show up....been doing a little more reading and have a couple questions.
> 
> Does anyone know where to order spare axles or what Sram model numbers they may be? I like to keep spares on hand to avoid downtime.
> 
> ...


Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

Dilligaff said:


> How did it break?
> 
> What is the proper thru-axle and pitch?


My rear TA worked itself loose on just about every ride, so I was tightening it a lot. It of course has made some contact with the passing rock as well. Not sure if strikes or frequent tightening did it in, but you can seen half of the circumference of one side of the cam is missing.










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## ryankshaw (Nov 18, 2014)

Just want to add that those that say the Derailleur hangers on these are cheap and flimsy and break way too easily are not crazy. I've had an orange sturgis for a year now and have gone through 4 of them. non have been from a "big" crash. 

These are fatbikes we're talking about, you take them in snow, when you are in snow you are always tipping over. that's what makes fat biking fun in the wintertime. but even that causes the hangers to bend or snap. the way I can tell my hanger is bent is that it starts shifting up past the granny-gear so the chain gets stuck between the cassette and the spokes. once that starts happening I know I am just a slight touch away from having to put on a new hanger. even the "new design" they sent out sucks. it is the Achilles heel of this otherwise great bike. 

Man is it sucky to have a $1k bike crippled by a $20 piece of flimsy aluminum that you can't buy anywhere else.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

I don't tip over much. I've only trashed the original weakest one, and that was a tip over where the bike went out from under me sideways due to ice and I remained standing, not a hard crash at all. I'm still riding on the 2nd one from feb 2015 and I have a couple of the 3rd kind (spring 2015) to use. Are a lot of people having trouble with the v2 and v3? or is it just a few folks? I don't keep track of this thread like I used to but I thought there were relatively few still complaining about the derailleur hanger. I could see if you're a hard rider and fall frequently this issue would be pretty frustrating. Do the new ones have the wrong metallurgy still?


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

We've sold thousands of these Motobecane Sturgis/NightTrain Fatbikes and statistically, the number of bent hangers is very very very low and all are from bikes crashing or getting dropped on the drive side. 
Some people want the fat bike hangers to be stronger, but then would you rather have your frame more at risk or your expensive derailleur more at risk? 
Current gen hangers are pretty optimized


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

joebikesdirect said:


> We've sold thousands of these Motobecane Sturgis/NightTrain Fatbikes and statistically, the number of bent hangers is very very very low and all are from bikes crashing or getting dropped on the drive side.
> Some people want the fat bike hangers to be stronger, but then would you rather have your frame more at risk or your expensive derailleur more at risk?
> Current gen hangers are pretty optimized


Hangers shouldn't be this fragile.

If they were to be good fragile, there would be no such thing as a derailer hanger alignment tool.

I wasn't going to comment, but if you weigh in that these things are great instead of admitting they're not I feel the need.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

So here's my $.02 about the hanger situation. I was doing fine one the OEM hanger on my SB until my last ride. At the trail head while getting ready to head out I had my bike leaning against the rack at the back of my car. When I accidentally bumped into it and knocked it over on the drive side in the paved parking lot I didn't think anything of it because I've done that many times before with just about every bike I've ever owned. So I just picked it up and started riding with the group I usually ride with. About a quarter of a mile in I started getting chain suck where the chain goes past the largest ring (granny gear) and get wedged between it and the plastic spoke protector. Again, I didn't think anything of it while yanking the chain free and off I go until the next time I shifted into granny (with the heavy fat bike I'm in granny a lot) and chain suck again. So by now the group is getting tired of waiting for me and one of them noticed that the derailleur hanger looks bent. I said impossible because I didn't fall or bang into anything while riding. It wasn't until the 3rd time that I recalled the bike tipping over on the drive side in the lot so that must have bent the hanger. Now, I don't know if it's because the hanger was too weak or that because the fat bike is heavier the impact of the fall was greater. Either way I on the replacement hanger and so far so good... but then I haven't dropped it... yet.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

tfinator said:


> Hangers shouldn't be this fragile.
> 
> If they were to be good fragile, there would be no such thing as a derailer hanger alignment tool.
> 
> I wasn't going to comment, but if you weigh in that these things are great instead of admitting they're not I feel the need.


Has anyone tried aligning the current generation with said tool?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

dayooper said:


> Has anyone tried aligning the current generation with said tool?


Broke almost immediately


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

tfinator said:


> Broke almost immediately


Gotcha. That's a bummer.


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

tfinator said:


> Broke almost immediately


Hmmm, so many pages about issues with this tiny hanger part. 
How is it breaking for everyone?

I have the current generation Sturgis (2016 rigid model, green, purchased 2 months ago), and have put a BEATING on the RD. Both it and the hanger are both straight. This is after catching it on the wall and falling on the drivetrain side once.

I've caught it quite well on a wall corner (I have to carry this up into a 3rd floor apt) twice now and KNEW it was going to be broken, but nothing is wrong - still in good alignment and shifting is crisp.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

That's good to hear. I have not yet had an issue and was just curious.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

jerrduford said:


> Hmmm, so many pages about issues with this tiny hanger part.
> How is it breaking for everyone?
> 
> I have the current generation Sturgis (2016 rigid model, green, purchased 2 months ago), and have put a BEATING on the RD. Both it and the hanger are both straight. This is after catching it on the wall and falling on the drivetrain side once.
> ...


I think that's because the current models have the updated (stronger) hangers. Also your hanger probably has 2 mounting points instead of 1.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

jerrduford said:


> Hmmm, so many pages about issues with this tiny hanger part.
> How is it breaking for everyone?
> 
> I have the current generation Sturgis (2016 rigid model, green, purchased 2 months ago), and have put a BEATING on the RD. Both it and the hanger are both straight. This is after catching it on the wall and falling on the drivetrain side once.
> ...


We've sold thousands of these Motobecane Sturgis/NightTrain Fatbikes.
Satistically, the number of bent hangers is very very very low and all are from fat bikes crashing, getting dropped or otherwise strongly impacted on the drive side. 

All Sturgis/NightTrain hangers 28 and 31 are current gen and have the reinforced design. The first gen hangers have not been made for nearly two years.

Hanger 31 has the two prong which makes it slightly stiffer on the thru-axle. This does not change the bending strength at the derailleur mount.

AFAIK All replaceable derailleur hangers from every brand (Trek/Giant/Specialized/Motobecane etc) are designed to bend / break before one's frame or expensive derailleur.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

dayooper said:


> Has anyone tried aligning the current generation with said tool?


Way back in this thread:


Fleas said:


> Amazingly, even with several branches and junk going directly into the cage of my rear drlr - to where I had to stop pedaling, get off, and untangle - the orig. hanger has barely bent at all. I mean, it over-shifted my low gear, but the indexing was not off - so, a very small bend. I did not try to straighten it. Just using as-is.
> 
> -F


^^^I reset the stops.

Then...


Fleas said:


> My original hanger finally bent. I think it was already tweaked, but yesterday in the dark I knocked my leaning bike over on the drive side moving a tree off the trail and it really bent it. I could not shift lower than 4th cog.
> 
> Anticipating that it would break if I bent it back I just rode it the way it was.
> 
> ...


It is still working fine, even since I installed my tokens in my fork and proceeded to try to bottom out the fork with increasingly harsh landings. Haven't needed the spare yet.

But no, a drlr hanger should bend, not break (until maybe the 3rd time or so). What little I know about aluminum and aluminum heat treating is that the few bad ones may have been at the outside edge of a furnace load and not seen the same heat cycle as the rest of them. Also, they appear to be cast, but maybe they are actually forged, with the thread cut in after, and still have a lot of internal stress from mfg. Then just a tap would do them in if they haven't seen some sort of a stress relief cycle.

-F


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Well my hanger is junk. 

I was washing the bike last night and had it propped against the door. It tipped over onto the derailer side. When I lubed the chain I could tell it wasn't right. It shifted up over the lower gear into the spokes. 

Had to take it to the bike shop anyway so they tried to adjust it and only could get it "close" without breaking it. Ordered a new one. $20. 

BTW. This was on my Farley.


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## moopey (Sep 1, 2013)

My sturgis came in yesterday. I got a little worried when the box was labeled "2015" but everything was as I expected.

Unfortunately I'm a little under the weather. In preparation for the bikes arrival I installed a trailer hitch on my new car so I could use my Thule bike rack. In the process of drilling the mounting holes I got metal in my eye. I was able to assemble the bike though....eye patch and all. Hopefully it rides straight. haha.

My first impressions are good. The bike was well packed. Although the box had some dings, nothing impacted the bike. I don't have a scale but I was expecting the bike to be a tank, but it didn't seem all that heavy.

I'm looking forward to my eye patch removal so I can try this bad boy out.

One negative I did notice without riding; The first clip that holds a brake/shifter in place near the handle bars keeps popping off because the cable wants to naturally flex out. Overall, not a huge deal since I could simple replace with a zip tie.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

joebikesdirect said:


> AFAIK All replaceable derailleur hangers from every brand (Trek/Giant/Specialized/Motobecane etc) are designed to bend / break before one's frame or expensive derailleur.


 That's certainly true and they do just that. The issue, Joe, is that the hangers on our bikes don't bend, they fracture as soon as they're stressed enough to yield. Although it's well known that aluminum is not a material that can be repetitively bent without failing, one should at least be able to use a derailleur alignment tool to tweak it without it fracturing. Similarly, if one gets bent, it should be possible to straighten it once without it breaking. Any more than that would be an unreasonable expectation. As for protecting the frame, I've tried to align the dropouts on my Night Train (so I wouldn't need to tweak the derailleur hanger) and I can tell you that the frames are incredibly stiff at the rear dropouts. The hangers could be much stronger without posing any risk of frame damage. Would there be a risk of derailleur damage with a stronger hanger? That's a possibility, but the derailleur can deflect to an extent because it's spring loaded. I've banged and gouged a few rear derailleurs and bent a few hangers in my time (particularly on MTBs), but I've never had a rear derailleur break. I've also only had one other bike where the hanger broke while straightening it, but that one had been bent and straightened repeatedly. I expected it to fail when it did. I appreciate the fact that you've been proactive in pushing for stronger hangers through 3 generations so far and you've been very supportive of your customers with hanger issues. However, it seems that the root of the problem is that the factory hangers are cast parts, whereas the hangers on most bikes are machined. A while back, I asked if you had considered importing some of the Pilo D547 machined hangers. Is this something you'd be willing to look into?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> I picked up an Ebay 34.9mm seat post clamp for $1.79 with free shipping because lots of people always want to try my Sturgis Bullet.
> (I don't even know how the economics of that can work at $1.79 :???
> 
> But I found that the seat post does not only stop at the top bottle cage bolt, the ID of the seat tube changes at that point as well, so even if you mill a slot in your seat post like I did, it will not slide past the bottle cage bolts. The seat tube has a "step" in it. And I can't shorten my seat post. So my guest riders will just have to ride tall.
> ...





Bnystrom said:


> The seat tube is evidently butted. That shouldn't be a surprise and it's a good thing.


I would be surprised if any tube on these frames is butted. That is a feature not often found at this price, and if it was it would be near the top of the advertising. The seat tube appears to be reamed to the correct ID (hence the "step"). Butting would result in a smooth taper, with thinner walls near the middle of the tube (not thicker). Reaming likely doesn't add a mfg. step, and it would allow the mfr. to use nearly any piece of pipe that is close to the correct OD.

-F


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## ryankshaw (Nov 18, 2014)

tonyride1 said:


> the chain goes past the largest ring (granny gear) and get wedged between it and the plastic spoke protector. Again, I didn't think anything of it while yanking the chain free and off I go until the next time I shifted into granny (with the heavy fat bike I'm in granny a lot) and chain suck again. So by now the group is getting tired of waiting for me and one of them noticed that the derailleur hanger looks bent. I said impossible because I didn't fall or bang into anything while riding.


THIS! ^
that is exactly the experience I've had multiple times! after a year I have learned to baby the crap out of it, but that is exactly what happens to me too. I've owned tons of bikes and never had hanger problems like this.



joebikesdirect said:


> statistically, the number of bent hangers is very very very low and *all* are from bikes crashing or getting dropped on the drive side.


well, not *all* since that has not been the case a couple times for me. And maybe you should change that to say "statistically, the # of people that happen to find this particular forum and actually post about it...". 
I work in software on an app that millions of people use. When I get a bug report that is verified by another user, with simple steps to reproduce it, I don't think "oh, these 2 users have this weird problem, must be something only wrong with them." No, I fix it. Because I know if 2 people are negatively impacted enough to actually find the bug tracker, file a report, and the reports are exactly the same, there are probably thousands of others that have the exact same problem.


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## ryankshaw (Nov 18, 2014)

Bnystrom said:


> I appreciate the fact that you've been proactive in pushing for stronger hangers through 3 generations so far and you've been very supportive of your customers with hanger issues. However, it seems that the root of the problem is that the factory hangers are cast parts, whereas the hangers on most bikes are machined. A while back, I asked if you had considered importing some of the Pilo D547 machined hangers. Is this something you'd be willing to look into?


I agree, I also appreciate that you are on here proactively responding to and connecting with your customers. That is really cool and shows you care, thank you!

I also agree that I think the issue is fundamentally, a cast hanger (I've never even heard of one before this bike) will not be as good as a machined one. Cast aluminum is not meant to be bent, that is what machined stuff is for. If you started selling those Pilo D547s or something similar as the official OEM part, it may cost a little more at first but the economies scale would bring the per-unit price down and the boost to the entire Motobecane fat bike image would be great.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

joebikesdirect said:


> We've sold thousands of these Motobecane Sturgis/NightTrain Fatbikes.
> Satistically, the number of bent hangers is very very very low and all are from fat bikes crashing, getting dropped or otherwise strongly impacted on the drive side.
> 
> All Sturgis/NightTrain hangers 28 and 31 are current gen and have the reinforced design. The first gen hangers have not been made for nearly two years.
> ...


It sounds like the hangers that have two mounting holes/ screws are the way to go and can withstand a few adjustments.

I will continue to call you out when you say crap about this being the way hangers work.

These hangers were $%&-. You know it. You should be able to adjust them more than once. Or, at least once I should say, as one of mine broke on the first time I touched it.

So, could we stop with the BS and say y'all $-%$$ up on the hangers? You did a really cool thing (sending out replacements, which were garbage too, but still awesome of you all). Then you remodeled the hanger for the new generation of frames and there appear to be many fewer issues.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Fleas said:


> I would be surprised if any tube on these frames is butted. That is a feature not often found at this price, and if it was it would be near the top of the advertising. The seat tube appears to be reamed to the correct ID (hence the "step"). Butting would result in a smooth taper, with thinner walls near the middle of the tube (not thicker). Reaming likely doesn't add a mfg. step, and it would allow the mfr. to use nearly any piece of pipe that is close to the correct OD. -F


 Considering the amount of tube shaping and hydroforming on these frames - which are much more complex and expensive processes than butting - I think it would be surprising if none of the tubes were butted (with the seat tube being the most obvious candidate, since it's the only round, straight tube in the frame). If you've ever seen a cross-section of a butted tube, the taper is smooth, but it's often quite abrupt. Considering that the difference between well-fitting seatpost and one that won't budge is a matter of a few thousandths of an inch, it's entirely possible that the OP's issue is due to butting in the tube. However, it really doesn't matter what the reason is, since the result is the same either way.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

tfinator said:


> It sounds like the hangers that have two mounting holes/ screws are the way to go and can withstand a few adjustments.


 Although I haven't seen one in person, the two-hole hanger seems to be the same as the 1-bolt "gen 3" hanger, with an extra mounting tab. The only real benefit of the extra tab and bolt would be when there is no wheel in the frame, which I believe is what Joe said that Kinesis gave him as the reason for the change to the 2016 frames. If the hanger material is the same, there would be no change in the durability of the derailleur mounting tab, since it appears to be identical in size and shape.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

I've seen the 2-hole hanger and it does look pretty much identical to the original single hole ones most of us have but with an additional tab for the hole. So the 2-hole hanger won't fit on a frame designed for the single hole version (I know because I tried) but it looks like a single hole hanger will fit both frames.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

This is correct 



tonyride1 said:


> I've seen the 2-hole hanger and it does look pretty much identical to the original single hole ones most of us have but with an additional tab for the hole. So the 2-hole hanger won't fit on a frame designed for the single hole version (I know because I tried) but it looks like a single hole hanger will fit both frames.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

OK, so this is somewhat related to the thread because it was mentioned. I got a set of Mulefut wheels/tires from Bikesdirect. I finally had some time today to make it tubeless and I'm having a hell of a time getting the bead to unseat from the rim. I've already ruined one tire by destroying the bead. Any hints on getting them off without destroying anything? I checked out many youtube videos and tried their methods but none seem to work for this set.


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## glockrocket17 (Aug 26, 2015)

I started setting mine up tubeless today. I layed the rim and tire on the ground and stepped on the tire at the bead. Mine came off pretty easy with this method.


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

tonyride1 said:


> OK, so this is somewhat related to the thread because it was mentioned. I got a set of Mulefut wheels/tires from Bikesdirect. I finally had some time today to make it tubeless and I'm having a hell of a time getting the bead to unseat from the rim. I've already ruined one tire by destroying the bead. Any hints on getting them off without destroying anything? I checked out many youtube videos and tried their methods but none seem to work for this set.


I've tried the stepping method and can never seem to get that to reliable work and I worry about bending the disc/stressing spokes.

What I did (and I've removed 4 factory snowshoes from 2 seperate mulefut sets) is get into pushup position on alternating sides of the bead. Push and shake like you're giving CPR. If it doesn't break, turn the wheel a few inches and repeat until you find a spot where you can break it. Repeat on the other side. I can usually break both beads in under 2 minutes with this method.

When removing the tires after breaking the bead, be patient and make sure to pull the opposing bead to the opposite side of the rim, as it will give you more leverage to pull the bead off. You'll get it. Watch a movie and have a beer. If you're absolutely destroying your hands with the levers, find a different spot, you'd be surprised.

Note: It helps to have as much air out as possible. Leave the presta valve open while you work and it will make things easier for removal.


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## glockrocket17 (Aug 26, 2015)

I had better luck moving around the bead too until I found a spot that would separate easily.


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

glockrocket17 said:


> I had better luck moving around the bead too until I found a spot that would separate easily.


+1 for this. I really like my CPR method as you have more control, but whichever method you use, if you fail in one spot try another and work around the wheel.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

If stepping doesn't work or you want to go another route you can use C-clamp(s) or similar (carpenter clamps, a vice).

If you use a C-clamp, I'd recommend using a shim to distribute the force to protect the tire casing.

Whatever method you choose, good luck! Somebody on another thread recommended leaving a few psi in the tire before you try the removal. Makes sense, I think.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

I rode my NTB this week in a dream state: The Adobe Badlands near Delta, Colorado. My sister rode my Dad's new Mongoose Vinson and we traded off a few times. I am pleased to say that the NTB crushed the Vinson's handling characteristics in every way. I was able to climb 4-5% grades regularly on the stock Snow Shoes in 4-5" deep, extremely dry snow.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

glockrocket17 said:


> I started setting mine up tubeless today. I layed the rim and tire on the ground and stepped on the tire at the bead. Mine came off pretty easy with this method.


I tried that method but didn't work for me.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I also used my palms and walked around the tire at the bead. In a minute or two I could see some areas where it was starting to move, so I concentrated there. In another minute or two the bead let go. The Nates I just removed to toss on the Dillinger 5's broke down much easier. 

Has anyone considered contacting a machine shop and having a derailleur hanger milled? They don't look all that elaborate.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

tonyride1 said:


> I tried that method but didn't work for me.


Push the sidewall inward, in addition to downward. It's tough to break loose, but just keep working around the tire with your hands. I have lots of experience changing dirt bike tires, and there's a lot of technique involved to get good at it. I thought the job was a cinch once I broke the beads.


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## Northeasterner (Oct 25, 2015)

OhioPT said:


> Push the sidewall inward, in addition to downward. It's tough to break loose, but just keep working around the tire with your hands. I have lots of experience changing dirt bike tires, and there's a lot of technique involved to get good at it. I thought the job was a cinch once I broke the beads.


This^, 
but the key is to keep a few pounds of air in the tires. At first I tried with all of the air out of the tire and it just wouldn't release. I added a few pounds of air back in and then it easily separated. The 2nd tire did too.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

I went out to play in the snow twice this week, once on Monday, during the snow storm to go and get a sandwich, and the other time 2 days after.

After getting my sandwich about 7" total snowfall had accumulated. That made for really tough going... The hardest 4 miles ever, I probably hiked half of it, and went down a couple of times... I still had fun though. (no broken deraillur hanger btw)

2 days later after the snow had harden some, no problem, super fun... 

That being said I won't make it a priority to go out in a snowstorm anytime soon, I almost got hit by a red-neck in his F350 private plow truck... He saw me and was trying to be a dick by getting too close... I was only on the roadway for less than 1/4 of a mile to connect to the trail, and I had plenty of lights too...


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

OhioPT said:


> Push the sidewall inward, in addition to downward.


Another thing that will help is to dribble some soapy water along the bead. As you work the tire, the water works it's way in and lubricates the bead. This is also really useful for mounting tires.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

tonyride1 said:


> I tried that method but didn't work for me.


When stepping on it, are you getting right up against the rim with your sole, parallel to the rim, and stepping down hard on the tire? Using a heavy sole with a rigid edge helps too. This worked for all four mulefut/snowshoe wheels I did. Some broke loose right away, other times I had to "walk" along the rim to get it to break.


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## hiro11 (Dec 29, 2011)

thomcom said:


>


Why do people insist on laying bikes down driveside down? I see it frequently here. This is a really, really bad idea and so easy to avoid. I cringe every time I see it.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

hiro11 said:


> Why do people insist on laying bikes down driveside down? I see it frequently here. This is a really, really bad idea and so easy to avoid. I cringe every time I see it.


I think you might be overstating the risks of laying your bike down this way a little bit.  Especially on a bike with an X4 derailleur. I didn't want to wrestle the bike into another orientation in the snow and wanted approximately that shot, so I put it down and took the picture.

Anyway, that's not a NT/Sturgis, so the hanger is not in immediate danger.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Seems like a good spot to be riding my Sturgis Bullet.

















Btw I crashed in excess of 10 times on this ride including one endo down a section called the "stairs of death" which resulted in me hitting a tree and banging up the bars (as well as me).

My derailleur hanger is still straight.


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## hiro11 (Dec 29, 2011)

thomcom said:


> I think you might be overstating the risks of laying your bike down this way a little bit.


Trust me, experience has taught me this lesson the hard way. The RD on any bike is in a very exposed position which makes bending a hanger shockingly easy to do. A hanger that's even a couple of degrees out of alignment will (sometimes dramatically) affect drivetrain performance. Realigning an alloy hanger can be a nervous process and usually requires a trip to the shop. Also, finding replacement hangers can be tricky. These risks are hardly unique to the NT/Sturgis.

Driveside down: not even once.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Bnystrom said:


> Considering the amount of tube shaping and hydroforming on these frames - which are much more complex and expensive processes than butting - I think it would be surprising if none of the tubes were butted (with the seat tube being the most obvious candidate, since it's the only round, straight tube in the frame). If you've ever seen a cross-section of a butted tube, the taper is smooth, but it's often quite abrupt. Considering that the difference between well-fitting seatpost and one that won't budge is a matter of a few thousandths of an inch, it's entirely possible that the OP's issue is due to butting in the tube. However, it really doesn't matter what the reason is, since the result is the same either way.


Hydroforming actually requires fewer mfg. steps and fewer tools than tube butting = less costly. That is one way they keep costs down on these bikes while still attaining sufficient strength at a reasonable (for many) weight. Check out the Reynolds website or even just Wikipedia for butting and hydroforming info.
Running a precision reamer down a seat tube with a wide size tolerance allows the mfr to purchase tubing from a less-precise (= less costly) supplier. On these frames, a little extra wall thickness is not a bad thing. They are probably over-built by a fair margin anyway (which would also provide some further margin of safety if a weaker tube found its way though the quality checks).

-F


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

dayooper said:


> When stepping on it, are you getting right up against the rim with your sole, parallel to the rim, and stepping down hard on the tire? Using a heavy sole with a rigid edge helps too. This worked for all four mulefut/snowshoe wheels I did. Some broke loose right away, other times I had to "walk" along the rim to get it to break.


I did get right up to the rim and still didn't work more me but I will try different parts of the wheel hoping to find a weak spot.


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

I actually had to change shoes, lace my running shoes up tight to get solid step purchase to derail the bead. After learning the technique, the second was a little easier. Buds are secure on the mulefuts but not as painfully tight as the snowshoes.

Held up fine during yesterday's 63 mile ride. My night train is in training for the Triple D ride in Dubuque.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

*Success.. sort of*

Next chapter of my on-going saga of going tubeless. So I laced up my hiking boots nice and tight to try to stop on the wide wall method and this time it worked like a charm. So I got the tire off and peeled out tube. I cleaned the thick plastic rim strip with some Windex and then applied the Gorilla tape. I overlapped the valve hole by at least an inch. I made sure tape was stuck to the rim all around then put the tire back on. I removed the valve core and used a compressor to put air in to reseat the beads. While doing that I noticed some bubbles coming out of one of the larger holes where the thick rim tape pops out of and one of the spoke holes not being used. I'm assuming the bubbles are from the Windex that snuck between the thick rim tape and the rim itself. So now there are those air leaks. So my question is is a little bit of leakage normal and that Stan's will be able to seal that up? Or should I remove the tire again and retape the rim? Or was I suppose to trip off some of the thick rim tape on either side?


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## hicksjerry (Dec 14, 2014)

Finally got my Sturgis out on some Winter singletrack.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

tonyride1 said:


> Next chapter of my on-going saga of going tubeless. So I laced up my hiking boots nice and tight to try to stop on the wide wall method and this time it worked like a charm. So I got the tire off and peeled out tube. I cleaned the thick plastic rim strip with some Windex and then applied the Gorilla tape. I overlapped the valve hole by at least an inch. I made sure tape was stuck to the rim all around then put the tire back on. I removed the valve core and used a compressor to put air in to reseat the beads. While doing that I noticed some bubbles coming out of one of the larger holes where the thick rim tape pops out of and one of the spoke holes not being used. I'm assuming the bubbles are from the Windex that snuck between the thick rim tape and the rim itself. So now there are those air leaks. So my question is is a little bit of leakage normal and that Stan's will be able to seal that up? Or should I remove the tire again and retape the rim? Or was I suppose to trip off some of the thick rim tape on either side?


Other than going split tube tubeless or shelling out $$$$ for mulefut tape and sealant, we all have had very bad results with this rim.

The pinned holes and other holes leak like crazy and even stans has not plugged them up. It's really a shame because the wheels where the selling point for me to get this bike. The hubs are junk. My rear hub fell apart in 40 miles, now the front has loose bearings as well. I am 155 lbs. And my bike is 29 lbs. 
I greased and maintained them with such care due to the others that chimed in after I bought this bike.

Repeated emails to bikes direct just replied with youtube videos on how to grease my hub and how to put tape on my rims. Well I have 6 bikes all tubeless and had a clue already.

Saving up for different wheelset so I can off load this bike and get a bike that I can ride. 
Oh yea, it looks nice in my garage as long as I don't ride it.


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## moopey (Sep 1, 2013)

*First ride on new Sturgis*

Still no snow in my part of Massachusetts but I took the Sturgis out anyways. Ventured out with a buddy with his new Surly Wednesday.

We ran into a couple riders that were surprised to see a bluto on a fat bike and stopped me to ask if it came with the bike. Turns out they both have Motobecane FB4's but were not riding them.

I'm impressed with the bike after the first ride. I wasn't liking the brakes at first but they seemed to improve as the ride went on. I'm going to give them some time before I jump at an upgrade. I'm also wondering if I need to play around with the air pressure a little. I was running 7 PSI in the front and 8 PSI in the rear. My buddy kept telling me to let some out, but I was hesitant since I felt fairly comfortable. I didn't feel like I was bouncing around or anything and he looked liked he was working way harder since his tires were so low.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> Other than going split tube tubeless or shelling out $$$$ for mulefut tape and sealant, we all have had very bad results with this rim.
> 
> The pinned holes and other holes leak like crazy and even stans has not plugged them up. It's really a shame because the wheels where the selling point for me to get this bike. The hubs are junk. My rear hub fell apart in 40 miles, now the front has loose bearings as well. I am 155 lbs. And my bike is 29 lbs.
> I greased and maintained them with such care due to the others that chimed in after I bought this bike.
> ...


What rim, the Mulefüt? If you can't get the Mulefüt to seal then you're definitely doing something wrong, it's one of the best wheels out there. I used a rim strip (SunRingle and then the Bling Strip), one wrap of Zip tape, and that was it. I've ridden down to 3.5 psi a few times and the tires held fine. I also didn't even cover the manufacturing holes at the edge of the wheel, the tire covers those. Mine aired up with minimal leakage and no Stans. It's not rocket science. I'd pull them back apart and find out what's going on. I love how the tires lock onto these rims.

But it sounds like you don't like the bike anyway, from your post. Good luck finding something that works for you. I think these bikes are great and an exceptional value for the money.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

moopey said:


> Still no snow in my part of Massachusetts but I took the Sturgis out anyways. Ventured out with a buddy with his new Surly Wednesday.
> 
> I'm impressed with the bike after the first ride. I wasn't liking the brakes at first but they seemed to improve as the ride went on. I'm going to give them some time before I jump at an upgrade. I'm also wondering if I need to play around with the air pressure a little. I was running 7 PSI in the front and 8 PSI in the rear. My buddy kept telling me to let some out, but I was hesitant since I felt fairly comfortable. I didn't feel like I was bouncing around or anything and he looked liked he was working way harder since his tires were so low.


There is no need to run really low pressures if you don't have to, it's all about traction. For dry or semi-muddy trails I am up around 10 psi, more of the trail can handle it. There is no point working harder than you need with the extra rolling resistance.


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

moopey said:


> I'm impressed with the bike after the first ride. I wasn't liking the brakes at first but they seemed to improve as the ride went on. I'm going to give them some time before I jump at an upgrade. I'm also wondering if I need to play around with the air pressure a little. I was running 7 PSI in the front and 8 PSI in the rear. My buddy kept telling me to let some out, but I was hesitant since I felt fairly comfortable. I didn't feel like I was bouncing around or anything and he looked liked he was working way harder since his tires were so low.


Run the higher pressures because you don't want to pinch flat -- trust me, those Showshoe tires are a complete Charlie Foxtrot to take off the Mulefut rims, and that was in ideal conditions in my garage with stronger levers. I don't think I would have been able to change them out on the trails with my standard levers I carry in my Camelbak. Do yourself a favor, either run higher pressures on regular trails or go tubeless (the reason I took my off the rims in the first place).


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## DGOJosh (Sep 11, 2009)

*New Wheels on the NTB*

I bought the NTB frame/Bluto and built my bike up with a set of Framed Hub Pub Wheels to save a little cash. I was able to set everything else up on the bike just like I wanted it, but ran out of funds by the time I ordered the wheelset. The House/Framed wheelset + Maxxis Mammoths was $400. I figured I'd at least get a year or so out of them and eventually get something better/lighter, when I had saved up the coin.

Everything worked out perfectly for 140+ miles, then a couple of weeks ago while on a night ride in a remote wash on the Colorado/NM border, the rear hub totally failed. It opened up on the drive side like the freaking prawls were a can opener and I was stuck with my crank spinning. I had to hike-a-bike out for several miles and it kind of sucked. It was late after a long day at work and winter with below freezing temperature and I was in clip-less bike shoes.

I promptly broke down and purchased a set of DT Swiss Big Ride 350's laced up to Surly Rolling Daryl wheels from Lace Mine 29 - Big Bicycle Wheels for $720 shipped and now I'm back to riding! I wish I would have just waited and bought these in the first place! This hubs actuate so much better and the wheelset is right around 2 lbs lighter (bathroom scale). They're set up tubeless via 24" super light split tubes and hold perfectly. Super easy to do with this wheel/tire combo and light. The bike is perfect now and I'm way stoked with it. I ended up being out a little more money than I had planned on, but eh...what the heck!


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

That frame color doesn't match any of the current bullet framesets. Where did you get it


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## DGOJosh (Sep 11, 2009)

kidd said:


> That frame color doesn't match any of the current bullet framesets. Where did you get it


I had it powder coated before I built up the bike. My Durango Bike Company Moonshine came powder coated and it's held up really well. I figured it was worth the extra $100.


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

I'm sure most here are already Motobecane/Sturgis owners, but here is my take on a beginner's perspective review to the 2016 Sturgis and the Boris X7 my wife has.

If nothing else, it should be a good watch for some ride footage while you sit at work!


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> Other than going split tube tubeless or shelling out $$$$ for mulefut tape and sealant, we all have had very bad results with this rim.
> 
> The pinned holes and other holes leak like crazy and even stans has not plugged them up. It's really a shame because the wheels where the selling point for me to get this bike. The hubs are junk. My rear hub fell apart in 40 miles, now the front has loose bearings as well. I am 155 lbs. And my bike is 29 lbs.
> I greased and maintained them with such care due to the others that chimed in after I bought this bike.
> ...


OK, thanks.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Dilligaff said:


> What rim, the Mulefüt? If you can't get the Mulefüt to seal then you're definitely doing something wrong, it's one of the best wheels out there. I used a rim strip (SunRingle and then the Bling Strip), one wrap of Zip tape, and that was it. I've ridden down to 3.5 psi a few times and the tires held fine. I also didn't even cover the manufacturing holes at the edge of the wheel, the tire covers those. Mine aired up with minimal leakage and no Stans. It's not rocket science. I'd pull them back apart and find out what's going on. I love how the tires lock onto these rims.
> 
> But it sounds like you don't like the bike anyway, from your post. Good luck finding something that works for you. I think these bikes are great and an exceptional value for the money.


AFAIK only ascarlarkinyar has had issues setting up his Mulefut rims. However, he is not using SunRingle kit. I invite him to post his exact setup methods with pics as I am sure we forum members can help troubleshoot what the exact issues are.

He did have issues breaking the bead. It is well known all tubeless fatbike tires are pretty tight on the bead. I have used three tire levers however, the best method I have seen is to use motorcycle tire levers.

Per SunRingle: Mulefut rims should be used with the SunRingle rim strips and tubeless tape and kit for best results. SunRingle says Stans sealant is ok too. Some people have posted good results with shrink wrap or zipsystem stretch tape? Stretch Tape | Huber Engineered Woods


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

jerrduford said:


> I'm sure most here are already Motobecane/Sturgis owners, but here is my take on a beginner's perspective review to the 2016 Sturgis and the Boris X7 my wife has.
> 
> If nothing else, it should be a good watch for some ride footage while you sit at work!


Nice video. Those are some funky handle bars on your and your wife's bikes.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

joebikesdirect said:


> Per SunRingle: Mulefut rims should be used with the SunRingle rim strips and tubeless tape and kit for best results. SunRingle says Stans sealant is ok too. Some people have posted good results with shrink wrap or zipsystem stretch tape? Stretch Tape | Huber Engineered Woods


I didn't use the Zip Stretch tape but did use their Flashing tape. There is no reason going tubeless has to be expensive or difficult.

I did some weights and it's pretty light stuff (1/2 the weight of Gorilla tape), very tight as well, and conforms when applying it. It's also the same price for a LOT more than the SunRingle tape.

I did originally use the SunRingle strip since it's 30g vs the OEM one that is 90g. I went to a FattyStripper Bling Strip (reflective black since I ride at night on weekdays) and love the look but it's 75g by itself. Oh well, it's only a few grams.

No flash:









And with the flash:









But back to the Zip Flashing tape. When you remove the tape, the glue from the tape stays on whatever it was attached to. It sounds like the Stretch tape may be removed.

















It comes off easily with rubbing alcohol but is definitely a one time use, with the tape deforming in the removal process since it's stuck on so tight. It conforms well and seems to be impervious to Stans, with no lifting on the edges.









So I like it and recommend it until I try something better. I have done 4 wheels so far and there is a ton left on the roll, good for another 6 or 8 wheels easy.

One thing I did, however, is not to bring it to the edge of the Mulefut wheel. I brought it to the edge of the inside lip, so the tire will have something to 'pop" over when seating the bead. I found that bringing it to the full edge means the tire does not lock on fully and was too easy to remove when changing tires. This would run the risk of them disbeading in the woods, which no one wants. I successfully ran them at 3.6 psi for a whole day and was not easy on them, and not once did they make a sound or give an indication they would burp off.


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

jerrduford said:


> I'm sure most here are already Motobecane/Sturgis owners, but here is my take on a beginner's perspective review to the 2016 Sturgis and the Boris X7 my wife has.
> 
> If nothing else, it should be a good watch for some ride footage while you sit at work!


Nice video! I bought a Boris X9 and upgraded the fork to a Bluto. I've had my Boris for a year and a half with no issues. As stated in your video fat bikes open up a new realm of biking. If one is on a limited budget they can get a 29er or 27.5 + wheelset for summer riding.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

Dilligaff said:


> What rim, the Mulefüt? If you can't get the Mulefüt to seal then you're definitely doing something wrong, it's one of the best wheels out there. I used a rim strip (SunRingle and then the Bling Strip), one wrap of Zip tape, and that was it. I've ridden down to 3.5 psi a few times and the tires held fine. I also didn't even cover the manufacturing holes at the edge of the wheel, the tire covers those. Mine aired up with minimal leakage and no Stans. It's not rocket science. I'd pull them back apart and find out what's going on. I love how the tires lock onto these rims.
> 
> But it sounds like you don't like the bike anyway, from your post. Good luck finding something that works for you. I think these bikes are great and an exceptional value for the money.


Problems with these rims and others of less width are all over this forum and the net. It's not me. All my other bikes have non tubeless rims and I have no problem making them work. These were impossible from the start.

They leak air and stans through the holes and joint where they are pinned. I added tape all the way passed the tire, but then they were too tight to let the bead pop. Less tape only let them bleed again.

Doesn't matter now cause the hubs have blown up anyways.

The bike is fine for a cheapy. I replaced every part on it now. Should have just got a frame. Underestimated how cheap the parts were and heavy. Live and learn right.


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

I've read so many posts on going tubeless and studding tires I think I may be insane. 

I've never heard of one problem with the Mulefut rims other than breaking the bead is difficult.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

joebikesdirect said:


> AFAIK only ascarlarkinyar has had issues setting up his Mulefut rims.
> 
> He did have issues breaking the bead.


Really I am the only one having issues with mulefut or sun ringle tiny hole or joint leaks? 2 second search brought up so many I got tired of copy and pasting.

BTW I have no problem breaking the bead. It was tough. its a great bead. Rims leaks from bad design. Expensive tape kit is their fix for that.

http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5-29/sun-ringle-mulefut-bad-joint-seam-999071.html

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires...ned-joint-sunringle-helix-tr-rims-950170.html

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/mulefut-feedback-939276.html

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/mulefut-rim-failure-959761.html

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/bikesdirect-mulefit-wheels-good-deal-996684.html

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/my...xperience-mule-fut-maxxis-mammoth-948032.html


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

My rear tire got a slow leak after I rode through some cactus the other day, so I decided it time to go tubeless with stans, sunringle strips, and sunringle tape.

Wheel before tubeless:










The bead was indeed hard to break, mostly because I couldn't get leverage on my tiny tire levers. Luckily I dug out a "car stereo lever" that is about 10" long and gave me plenty enough leverage.

I carefully cleaned the rim with alcohol, installed the rim strip, then poorly taped over it with plenty of wrinkles. After rubbing the tape down for a while I put the tube back in and pumped it up to 20psi. Breaking the bead the second time with the longer lever was easy. Poured in 4 Oz stans and pumped it up easily with my Topeak fat-centric hand pump (yeah xmas present! )










I'm really quite disappointed that tubeless saved me all of .15# here. 

The tire itself weighed in at the expected 1330g.

I'll let you all know soon how well the tubeless does with ~1psi.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

How much and of what tape did you use? The tape should have added 80/90g and the Stans added 120g, for a total of about 200/210g. The stock tube weighed around 500g (I'll have to check my notes but it was around that). 

So that should have saved you 250/300g, which is 8-11 ounces per tire. 

I saved around 1.5/2 pounds by going tubeless.


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## gfowkes (Sep 24, 2008)

*Thanks!*

Thanks to the valuable info on this thread, I pulled the trigger on an orange Sturgis frame and Bluto fork ($699), the MuleFut wheelset ($399) and Raceface cranks ($109 on eBay). I should have enough parts in the bin for a 1x10 drivetrain as well as everything else I need to get rolling. Stoked!


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

It is the sunringle tape, I overwrapped the tape by about 5". It was weighed the first time at 1.5psi the first time, and 21psi the second time, but that shouldn't be more than 15-20g of air. :\ Yes, the stock tube is incredibly beefy. Where'd my weight go?


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

gfowkes said:


> Thanks to the valuable info on this thread, I pulled the trigger on an orange Sturgis frame and Bluto fork ($699), the MuleFut wheelset ($399) and Raceface cranks ($109 on eBay). I should have enough parts in the bin for a 1x10 drivetrain as well as everything else I need to get rolling. Stoked!


As you are already $1,207 in, I am curious as to why you would not just get a complete Stugis Bullet for $1499 and the part out what you did not need on CraigsList? Was it because you wanted the Orange with the Bluto?


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## gfowkes (Sep 24, 2008)

delete


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## gfowkes (Sep 24, 2008)

TheNormsk said:


> As you are already $1,207 in, I am curious as to why you would not just get a complete Stugis Bullet for $1499 and the part out what you did not need on CraigsList? Was it because you wanted the Orange with the Bluto?


Good question and believe me, I labored over it.

Ultimately, it was $292 more for parts that I didn't want or need and don't really have the time to sell on Craigslist....

But mostly, because I like to build my own bikes custom to my personal preferences. Like the Shimano/e13 1 x10 drivetrain (42/28), wide bars/short stem, SLX brakes, etc. I'll be using on this build.

And yes, BONUS points for matching my other bike.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Nice other bike.

I probably should have taken your approach I was wanting the orange, but ultimate settled for white Sturgis Bullet. I will probably end up swapping most of the parts off this bike but I will be reusing those parts on my daughter's bike which will get an upgrade as a result of this. It also go me biking in the snow quicker than if it had to wait got me to build it.


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## DGOJosh (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm with you! It's fun to build a bike up with the parts you want on it. I knew I wanted a 1x drivetrain with a 42t, wider/lighter bars, shorter stem, shimano brakes and a dropper seat post. It fits my riding style and trails. I ended up with the wheelset I wanted eventually and am really happy with my bike.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

I love building up bikes as much as the next guy (I've built 3 of my bikes) but when I ordered mine the intent was to be able to quickly put it together and ride it while we still had snow. At the time I (and many of us here) didn't expect a strike at the seaport in California that left our bikes sitting on the ships for weeks. By the time I got my bike most of the snow was gone and I never really got a chance to ride it in the snow. Now that I've had some time with the bike I did swap out the shifters, rear derailleur, grips, stem, seat post, and wheels. Soon I'll be swapping out the handle bar also. So if I knew I had the time I would have probably just ordered the frame with Bluto and build it up from there.


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## Milagu (Jan 7, 2016)

First time poster and FB rider! Actually haven't ridden at all in quite a while. Just ordered a 21" White Bullet yesterday. Now if they'd just hurry up and ship it! 

Funny seeing everyone in the snow. I'm in GA and this bike will be lucky to ever see any!


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## jerrduford (Sep 14, 2015)

Milagu said:


> First time poster and FB rider! Actually haven't ridden at all in quite a while. Just ordered a 21" White Bullet yesterday. Now if they'd just hurry up and ship it!
> 
> Funny seeing everyone in the snow. I'm in GA and this bike will be lucky to ever see any!


I think you made a great choice with that bike if you aren't going to see snow. But don't rule it out! I have some relatives in GA that see it every once in a while, that or you can visit someplace just for the BLAST that is riding in snow.

Good choice again on the bike. I love the white bullet with the black bluto. Looks great.


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## Milagu (Jan 7, 2016)

jerrduford said:


> I think you made a great choice with that bike if you aren't going to see snow. But don't rule it out! I have some relatives in GA that see it every once in a while, that or you can visit someplace just for the BLAST that is riding in snow.
> 
> Good choice again on the bike. I love the white bullet with the black bluto. Looks great.


Thanks! I thought the white frame / black fork looked sick too. 

Definitely not ruling it out. We had around 6" in metro Atlanta a couple years ago so it's totally possible!

I debated forever on whether to get the Bluto or not but I just read too many rave reviews to pass on it. Definitely looking forward to the first ride.


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

Milagu said:


> First time poster and FB rider! Actually haven't ridden at all in quite a while. Just ordered a 21" White Bullet yesterday. Now if they'd just hurry up and ship it!
> 
> Funny seeing everyone in the snow. I'm in GA and this bike will be lucky to ever see any!


Hey, how tall are you? The XL Sturgis says it is meant for 6'-3" to 6'-7". The Sturgis frame has a high standover height, in XL that is 32.1 inches. However, just below the chart is a statement "**Add one more inch to standovers for Bluto Equipped Fat bikes.", which brings the standover to 33.1 inches. If you are closer to the lower end of the height range, you may want to rethink the XL.

I am only bringing this up because these Sturgis bikes tend to run big. I bought my wife a size small Sturgis Bullet and it fits her perfectly. However, she usually rides a Medium sized men's Trance 27.5.


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## Milagu (Jan 7, 2016)

Allamuchy Joe said:


> Hey, how tall are you? The XL Sturgis says it is meant for 6'-3" to 6'-7". The Sturgis frame has a high standover height, in XL that is 32.1 inches. However, just below the chart is a statement "**Add one more inch to standovers for Bluto Equipped Fat bikes.", which brings the standover to 33.1 inches. If you are closer to the lower end of the height range, you may want to rethink the XL.
> 
> I am only bringing this up because these Sturgis bikes tend to run big. I bought my wife a size small Sturgis Bullet and it fits her perfectly. However, she usually rides a Medium sized men's Trance 27.5.


6'7... I can do flat foot standover up to around 37-38". I've looked at dual-sport motorcycles too and their standover is up to 38" or even more.

I look forward to it being HUGE!


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

Milagu said:


> 6'7... I can do flat foot standover up to around 37-38". I've looked at dual-sport motorcycles too and their standover is up to 38" or even more.
> 
> I look forward to it being HUGE!


Okay -- given that, enjoy your Sturgis Bullet. My wife loves her bike! The white looks really sharp, too.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Milagu said:


> 6'7... I can do flat foot standover up to around 37-38". I've looked at dual-sport motorcycles too and their standover is up to 38" or even more.
> 
> I look forward to it being HUGE!


Nice! You should raise the fork to 120mm travel then too. I really like the extra travel and stack height with the 120 Bluto on my large Sturgis, and I'm just under 6'3".


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## Milagu (Jan 7, 2016)

Allamuchy Joe said:


> Okay -- given that, enjoy your Sturgis Bullet. My wife loves her bike! The white looks really sharp, too.


Thanks! That's awesome. Definitely can't wait.


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## Milagu (Jan 7, 2016)

OhioPT said:


> Nice! You should raise the fork to 120mm travel then too. I really like the extra travel and stack height with the 120 Bluto on my large Sturgis, and I'm just under 6'3".


Wait, dumb question. You can convert the 100mm fork to 120mm? I looked around some for tutorials but don't see much.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

I've been stripping down my Sturgis as I swap over components from another bike. The bike only has three rides on it so far. One thing I already noticed is that my white paint is already getting quite marked up. Is it just me and my many crashes on my last ride or is the paint somewhat soft and easily markable on the Sturgis?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Milagu said:


> Wait, dumb question. You can convert the 100mm fork to 120mm? I looked around some for tutorials but don't see much.


You can set it up anywhere between 80 and 120 in 10mm increments (80, 90, 100, 110, 120) with the purchase of the corresponding air shaft. See the Bluto tuning thread - too lazy to post a link.


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## Milagu (Jan 7, 2016)

TheNormsk said:


> I've been stripping down my Sturgis as I swap over components from another bike. The bike only has three rides on it so far. On thing I already noticed is that my white paint is already getting quite marked up. Is it just me and my many crashed on my last ride or is the paint somewhat soft and easily markable on the Sturgis?


That's a bummer. I kind of figured it would show stuff easy just by nature of being white but hope it's not especially susceptible. I'll see how mine stands up...


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## spartan_msu (May 8, 2008)

I got my Sturgis the other night and have been really happy with it so far. One question that I did have was, is there a way to reduce the crank/ bottom bracket width (I believe it is called Q-factor)? There is a lot of clearance on both of the chainstays and looking at all the spacers I would have to assume you could bring them in a little?


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

spartan_msu said:


> I got my Sturgis the other night and have been really happy with it so far. One question that I did have was, is there a way to reduce the crank/ bottom bracket width (I believe it is called Q-factor)? There is a lot of clearance on both of the chainstays and looking at all the spacers I would have to assume you could bring them in a little?


I don't know your answer but I will use you question to make an observation. I was initially wondering if the wide Q-fact would be an issue with a 120mm spaced crank versus a regular fat bike 100mm. However in the rides I have now had on my Sturgis I can honestly say that I have never noticed it. In some ways I prefer it. Perhaps I have wide hips or something (actually I'm fairly slim) but I actually found the wide pedal stance fairly natural.

Of course this is at slow snow biking speeds. Once I get up to dry trail speeds I may notice it but then I have my Tallboy LTc for that. For now, for the money, except for some soft paint and not so great in the snow Shoeshoes, I would say the bike is near perfect for my needs.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

In general, you can't get them much narrower. You can take out spacers I guess, but make sure that the crank still fits on tightly. Removing spacers on the drive side will also futz with your chain line.

I got the gen 1 NTB. The 120mm spacing made it pretty uncomfortable, and it felt really wobbly wonky and inefficient to pedal. I switched to RF 100mm cranks and the change was phenomenal. I've done all day rides on it since.

Im short, so I think that causes some of the difference in experience.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

spartan_msu said:


> I got my Sturgis the other night and have been really happy with it so far. One question that I did have was, is there a way to reduce the crank/ bottom bracket width (I believe it is called Q-factor)? There is a lot of clearance on both of the chainstays and looking at all the spacers I would have to assume you could bring them in a little?


Shift into low-low gear and see how close your chain is to your rear tire. _That's_ how far you can move your crank inboard. (not much)
This is one reason why some people go 1X.

Also, you might want to check how far into the non-drive side crank arm the spindle goes. There may not be any room there either.

-F


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

A little video of a ride aboard the Sturgis. First 2 minutes is just climbing up a pretty steep hill. Damn batteries on the 5 year old GoPro died before I got to the good technical stuff.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

I'm about to give up on converting my Mulefut wheel set to tubeless. I narrowed the thick plastic rim tape a bit so the Gorilla tape will have more surface area to stick to the rim. I pushed the tape agains the rim nice and tight all around. I overlapped the valve hole by about 2 inches. There was absolutely no way air can escape through the spoke holes and the larger holes that the rim tape pops out of and yet when I pumped it up with a compressor to seat the beads I can hear air escaping. So I sprayed some soapy water on the rim to see where it was coming from and sure enough air was coming from most of the spoke holes (used and unused ones) as well as the larger rim tape holes. There's also are coming from the seam where the ends of the rim meet. How the hell can air pass though the tape? I just don't get it. Should I put the tube back in and pump it up to let the pressure of the tube help the tape stick better to the rim then remove the tube and try again? Is there a sure fire way of doing this? Maybe using the Sun Ringle tubeless kit? Help!!!


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## hicksjerry (Dec 14, 2014)

I used the Sun Ringle rim strip and tape and had no issues at all. This was my first attempt at going tubeless on any rim, so I was a little anxious, but everything sealed up right away my tires haven't lost air in the 2 weeks I've been tubeless. Give the Sun Ringle stuff a try before giving up.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

hicksjerry said:


> I used the Sun Ringle rim strip and tape and had no issues at all. This was my first attempt at going tubeless on any rim, so I was a little anxious, but everything sealed up right away my tires haven't lost air in the 2 weeks I've been tubeless. Give the Sun Ringle stuff a try before giving up.


I'm going to try to put the tube in and let it help adhere the tape to the rim first and see if that works. If not then I'll go with the Sun Ringle tubeless tape. Thanks.


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

Go with the sun ringle tape. Very easy and works the first time.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

tonyride1 said:


> I'm about to give up on converting my Mulefut wheel set to tubeless. I narrowed the thick plastic rim tape a bit so the Gorilla tape will have more surface area to stick to the rim. I pushed the tape agains the rim nice and tight all around. I overlapped the valve hole by about 2 inches. There was absolutely no way air can escape through the spoke holes and the larger holes that the rim tape pops out of and yet when I pumped it up with a compressor to seat the beads I can hear air escaping. So I sprayed some soapy water on the rim to see where it was coming from and sure enough air was coming from most of the spoke holes (used and unused ones) as well as the larger rim tape holes. There's also are coming from the seam where the ends of the rim meet. How the hell can air pass though the tape? I just don't get it. Should I put the tube back in and pump it up to let the pressure of the tube help the tape stick better to the rim then remove the tube and try again? Is there a sure fire way of doing this? Maybe using the Sun Ringle tubeless kit? Help!!!


Dont feel bad. You are running into the same problem that many of us have gone through. The joint on the rim and other tiny holes leak air everywhere on these rims.

A heavy split tube or thier $$$$ tape seems to be the only way to fix design flaw. You will be out more money and heavier wheel weight but have a little bit more grip from going tubeless this way.

I have made lots non tubeless rims work with less expensive and easier setups. Just foam and tape or wrap.

I am aiming at a carbon tubeless wheels once i get these mulefut sold. Better hubs and reliable easy tubeless setup.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Everybody's gonna flame me for this... Get some 24" Q Tubes and split tube em. It'll work mint.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

NYrr496 said:


> Everybody's gonna flame me for this... Get some 24" Q Tubes and split tube em. It'll work mint.


So what's the process? What are the steps involved?


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Don't waste your money on the Sun Ringle stuff. Try the Fattystrippers kit, it's what I ended up using successfully.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Put the rim strip of choice on the rim. I use black gorilla tape because it's lighter than most rim strips and I like the way it looks. I use two layers stuck to each other so it's black on both sides and doesn't stick to anything. 
Take a 24" Q Tube. These are light and the cores are removable. Cut it around the seam opposite the valve all the way around so the tube is now a big, flat circular sheet. Place it on the rim with the valve in the valve hole. 
Put sealant in the tire, put the tire in the rim and work the tube so it comes out evenly on both sides of the bead. Spray with soapy water of your choice, inflate. 
After beads seat, trim excess tube off with a razor and ride your bike. 
On Surly and some other rims, I put a wrap of 1/4" thick sill foam between the rim strip and split tube to help with inflation but you shouldn't need it with Mulefuts. They inflate easy.


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## Ty Schell (Jan 11, 2016)

Just sayin.....


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

NYrr496 said:


> Put sealant in the tire, put the tire in the rim and work the tube so it comes out evenly on both sides of the bead. Spray with soapy water of your choice, inflate.


Thanks. I understood what you said except for that part. You mean put the sealant (Stan's in my case) in the tire first then spray the beads with soapy water before putting it on the rim? Wouldn't that be kind of messy with all that sealant splashing around in there while I'm fighting to get the tire on and then pulling the edges of the split tube through? Also, wouldn't some of the soapy water mix with the sealant? Also, isn't the idea of having a valve with a removable core is so that after you put the tire on you can inject the sealant in through the valve so I won't have to deal with the mess?


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Ty Schell said:


> Just sayin.....


Is that a red Boris and a white Sturgis? Allamuchyjoe and his wife have the same bikes in the same colors. Except Joe's Boris has the Bluto.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

tonyride1 said:


> Thanks. I understood what you said except for that part. You mean put the sealant (Stan's in my case) in the tire first then spray the beads with soapy water before putting it on the rim? Wouldn't that be kind of messy with all that sealant splashing around in there while I'm fighting to get the tire on and then pulling the edges of the split tube through? Also, wouldn't some of the soapy water mix with the sealant? Also, isn't the idea of having a valve with a removable core is so that after you put the tire on you can inject the sealant in through the valve so I won't have to deal with the mess?


I hang the rim on my stand. I pour Stan's into the tire and then put the tire on the rim over the split tube. THEN I spray both beads with spray cleaner. I start at the top and run it around the beads with my fingers. Then I add air. 
You can absolutely add the Stan's through the valve stem. I just do it this way because before I started adding the foam, it was very difficult to keep the bead seated on a brand new setup. By adding the sealant first, it was one and done.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

NYrr496 said:


> I hang the rim on my stand. I pour Stan's into the tire and then put the tire on the rim over the split tube. THEN I spray both beads with spray cleaner. I start at the top and run it around the beads with my fingers. Then I add air.
> You can absolutely add the Stan's through the valve stem. I just do it this way because before I started adding the foam, it was very difficult to keep the bead seated on a brand new setup. By adding the sealant first, it was one and done.


Gotcha. Using the bike stand to hold the wheel is a great idea. Thanks.


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## Milagu (Jan 7, 2016)

Bike is here and assembled!  Need to pump the tires up (came at like 4psi!) and air up the Bluto some. Test ride thru the yard last night confirmed that this bike is a beast. Just rolls right over everything.

Holy hell the stock seat is hard though. Any rec's? 

Of course now it looks like it's going to rain hard Friday.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

*New tubes and strips - 1 lb*

I got around to taking out the stock rim strips and tubes. Replaced the stock rim strip (150g) with duct tape, and replaced the stock tubes (603g front, 557g rear - pretty significant difference for the same brand/size tube) - with Specialized DH tubes, 26x2.4-3.0. Only have the front wheel completely back together because one of the new tubes had a pinhole leak in it. Will return and have the rear wheel done tomorrow.

Front wheel weight, stock: 7.9 lbs.
Modified weight: 6.9 lbs.

Pretty psyched with the results. That is a lot of rotational mass to shed for less than $30 total.

The new strip:


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

The tubeless conversion parts are NOT expensive. The fatbike stuff does cost more than those for smaller rims for logical reasons.

I found a link for the SunRingle rimstrips for only $7 each
PM for this info..but google search gives it to you in some of the first results

Officially, we can only endorse the SunRingle kits - BUT...

Other forum members have used Zip Systems tape with success. Or shrink wrap. This is very inexpensive. 

THE KEY IS - using the right thickness and width Rim Strip AND using the right width and adhesive tape. Width for the tape is 78mm for the SunRingle. Also making sure you clean off your rim and tire bead with isopropyl alcohol.

Do NOT use the stock rimstrips when converting to tubeless on Mulefuts


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

hi - congrats on your bike you are going to love it! 

Most people love that saddle and some think it's too soft. If you feel it's too hard - might be set up or size issue.

It took me years to find my favorite saddle / shape ...I hope you can make use of these shortcuts to finding yours. Here are some tips:

First - make sure the saddle is level.
Second - make sure it's positioned where your sit bones are on the widest portion
Adjust slightly up or down depending upon your preference after a few rides.
Some people who feel a saddle is too hard may have a saddle that is too wide or too narrow for their anatomy/ pelvic structures.
A saddle that's too wide can force a rider on the nose. A saddle that's too narrow can feel like sitting on a 2x4.



Milagu said:


> Bike is here and assembled!  Need to pump the tires up (came at like 4psi!) and air up the Bluto some. Test ride thru the yard last night confirmed that this bike is a beast. Just rolls right over everything.
> 
> Holy hell the stock seat is hard though. Any rec's?
> 
> Of course now it looks like it's going to rain hard Friday.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

joebikesdirect said:


> The tubeless conversion parts are NOT expensive. The fatbike stuff does cost more than those for smaller rims for logical reasons.
> 
> I found a link for the SunRingle rimstrips for only $7 each
> PM for this info..but google search gives it to you in some of the first results
> ...


Zip systems tape=$75.00 for 75 feet
Plus shipping
Sun ringle tape= $38.00 for 10 meters
Plus shipping
Two sun ringle rim strips $23.00 shipped

It adds up when you put it all together. My cost to make other tubeless setups. Gorrilla tape or shrink wrap, plus beadbacker foam and regular duck tape. $10.00 a wheel max.

Shrink wrap does not work on these rims due to needs to be precise on the 78mm mark. Too little, you get leak. Too much, tire does not stay in bead or impossible to get on rim and tears shrink wrap.

Real world experience. Not a guy trying to sell you bikes.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

@Ascar 
we're selling out of fat bikes. I am trying to help customers ride happy 

I found the zip system tape much cheaper - Lowes $25 for more than you need. Shop ZIP System Panel Tape at Lowes.com

I also found the SunRingle stuff much cheaper -

SunRingle rim strips and tape - less than $50 including shipping

Some people make their own valve stems and have their own sealant preferences.

Screen shot proof:


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> Real world experience. Not a guy trying to sell you bikes.


Sigh...people complain if a company doesn't provide customer service, and now people complain when they do.

Anyway, as mentioned elsewhere on the board, folks have also had much success with the Fatty Stripper, which is like $40 and includes sealant and valves.


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

I swapped out the stock handlebars and seatpost for carbon stuff and went 1x10 by removing the X7 front derailleur and X7 front shifter. Let me know if you're interested in these take offs.

The SunRingle tubeless setup was cheap, easy and has held up great over 412 miles so far. This is a fun bike and I like to ride it  We're spoiled by trails and conditions here in Eagle.


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

Tips-Up said:


> I swapped out the stock handlebars and seatpost for carbon stuff and went 1x10 by removing the X7 front derailleur and X7 front shifter. Let me know if you're interested in these take offs.
> 
> The SunRingle tubeless setup was cheap, easy and has held up great over 412 miles so far. This is a fun bike and I like to ride it  We're spoiled by trails and conditions here in Eagle.


Do you know the weight of the bike now after these changes? I plan on the same set of changes on my small 15.5"

Thanks


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

Tips-Up said:


> I swapped out the stock handlebars and seatpost for carbon stuff and went 1x10 by removing the X7 front derailleur and X7 front shifter. Let me know if you're interested in these take offs.
> 
> The SunRingle tubeless setup was cheap, easy and has held up great over 412 miles so far. This is a fun bike and I like to ride it  We're spoiled by trails and conditions here in Eagle.


Eagle CO? Was out there this summer visiting family and got a few rides in. Absolutely amazing

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

FYI, for the tape and Rim Strips. I got the Sun Tape and 2 SUN Rim Strips plus shipping for $36 off amazon (NOT PRIME).


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Steve Javorsky said:


> FYI, for the tape and Rim Strips. I got the Sun Tape and 2 SUN Rim Strips plus shipping for $36 off amazon (NOT PRIME).


I saw them on Amazon but for that price you only get 1 Rim strip. You'll have to order another rim strip for another $9.10.


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## Stumpy406 (Dec 8, 2015)

I got my matte black NTB out of the box and set up yesterday, I'm quite impressed and very happy I elected to go with the medium frame. I put on RF Next carbon bars and some Lizard Skin grips and I also bought a Reverb Stealth dropper. I could have sworn that there was internal routing for a dropper but there doesn't seem to be. Is the best option for a dropper the plain Reverb?

I'll post some pics later...


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Has anyone tried drilling a hole in the seat tube for an internal dropper?


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

OMG, we paid $1k+ for a bicycle. Spend the $50 and buy the Sun Ringle tubeless kit and be done with it! My tubeless set up has been flawless, like so many others that have used the designated kit.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

OhioPT said:


> OMG, we paid $1k+ for a bicycle. Spend the $50 and buy the Sun Ringle tubeless kit and be done with it! My tubeless set up has been flawless, like so many others that have used the designated kit.


I did. Placed the order yesterday. 2 Sun rim strips and a roll of Sun tape.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

I forget if someone actually drilled a hole for dropper installation. It was talked about though. I think some people had luck going 1x then using the front derailer guides/ routing


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

OhioPT said:


> OMG, we paid $1k+ for a bicycle. Spend the $50 and buy the Sun Ringle tubeless kit and be done with it! My tubeless set up has been flawless, like so many others that have used the designated kit.


What's the weight of the kit?


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

TheNormsk said:


> What's the weight of the kit?


I got +295 grams total for both wheels combined with the valve stems, rim strips, tape, sealant, and air in the tires.

While that's a substantial weight savings, the other benefits are the ability to run lower pressure without pinch flatting the tubes, lower rolling resistance, and flat protection from thorns and such.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

My stocks tubes and rim strips weigh 1423 grams, so that's a savings of 1128 grams (2.49 lbs). Shaving that much rotational weight for $50 is amazing bang-for-buck!


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## H2OResQ (Dec 15, 2015)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> received my 15.5 sturgis today. size is perfect. glad I went with smaller for standover reasons.
> 
> switched out parts with carbon ones. formula oro brakes. was happy with all the weight I was losing, but I think I put it all back on with the bud and lou tires. it's looking like it will be around 28-29lbs when done. still waiting on pedals, grips and saddle.
> 
> ...


How tall are you and what is your inseam, if you don't mind me asking? I'm 5'9" with a 30" inseam. I'm on the fence with a 15.5" or 17.5" frame. Any suggestions?


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

H2OResQ said:


> How tall are you and what is your inseam, if you don't mind me asking? I'm 5'9" with a 30" inseam. I'm on the fence with a 15.5" or 17.5" frame. Any suggestions?


You're on the fence, but if you've measured bicycle inseam correctly, then you might wanna go smaller. I'm 5-9 with 31-31.5" bike inseam, and it's close on the medium, even with carbon fork. I've measured and the standover above BB is 30" with carbon fork and snowshoe XLs...I believe it'd be a bit higher with the bluto. If you can, go test a fatboy...the geo is very close. The small will probably be good for standover, but not sure how the rest of cockpit will feel.


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## H2OResQ (Dec 15, 2015)

Thanks. I have tried a small and medium Lurch. I was going to buy the small 16" lurch but they're sold out. Now I'm looking at the Night train and I wasn't sure if going with the slightly smaller 15.5" would be good. Saw a few posts on this forum with people around the same size going for the 15.5". I think the stand over will be okay but I was worried about the cockpit.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

H2OResQ said:


> How tall are you and what is your inseam, if you don't mind me asking? I'm 5'9" with a 30" inseam. I'm on the fence with a 15.5" or 17.5" frame. Any suggestions?


Both my man and I are the same height 5' 9". I have a 32" inseam and he is a 30". The 15.5" fits good and feels more like a nimble BMX bike. But stepping off into deep snow this frame size is a million times better than a taller one.
running the 90mm stem with a few spacers makes it good to lean back and get the rear tire to bite the snow.

Just be aware that the hubs and BB do not last very long under normal riding. This bike is a good deal for casual riding or want to try out fat biking before spending more money on a quality bike. If you plan on riding a lot, get the frame/forks option and get better and lighter parts.


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## H2OResQ (Dec 15, 2015)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> Both my man and I are the same height 5' 9". I have a 32" inseam and he is a 30". The 15.5" fits good and feels more like a nimble BMX bike. But stepping off into deep snow this frame size is a million times better than a taller one.
> running the 90mm stem with a few spacers makes it good to lean back and get the rear tire to bite the snow.
> 
> Just be aware that the hubs and BB do not last very long under normal riding. This bike is a good deal for casual riding or want to try out fat biking before spending more money on a quality bike. If you plan on riding a lot, get the frame/forks option and get better and lighter parts.


Thanks. A lot of good info that's making me lean towards the 15.5". Will probably pull the trigger sometime this week.


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

dariusf said:


> Do you know the weight of the bike now after these changes? I plan on the same set of changes on my small 15.5"
> 
> Thanks


30.5 pounds with Surly Bud's front and rear. It'd be under 30 easy with nearly any other tire. Bud ain't fast, until it is


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

Tips-Up said:


> 30.5 pounds with Surly Bud's front and rear. It'd be under 30 easy with nearly any other tire. Bud ain't fast, until it is


Great, that's not bad at all. I appreciate the reply.


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Tips-Up said:


> 30.5 pounds with Surly Bud's front and rear. It'd be under 30 easy with nearly any other tire. Bud ain't fast, until it is


Curious.

My kids small Sturgis with pedals, one bottle cage, and a mirror is over 35 pounds. I know the front end feels very heavy compared to my Farley 7 which I assumed was the weight of the Sturgis fork. The seat post had to be shortened to fit him and when cutting I noticed it was heavy as well.

I have a hard time believing tubeless, carbon seat post, carbon handlebars and 1x is going shave 5 pounds off.

Or am I missing something?


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## Tips-Up (Sep 22, 2009)

The stock fork is nice with all the grommets and I like the bladed style, but it was 4+ pounds and the new carbon is less than half for only $137. I'm not the biggest guy and my fatty usually rides in slow conditions, so I'm OK with the china carbon fork. So far so good, looks identical to my buddy's stock Framed Alaskan fork.

150mm 26er Fat Bicycle Fork Full Carbon thru Axle UD Matt Tapered Tube Disc | eBay

Carbon handlebars and seat post were definitely lighter, maybe a pound combined? Another pound gone with the front derailleur, front shifter and cables. The stock inner tubes were about a pound each so tubeless with bigger, better tires dumped the final pound. So yeah, about 5 pounds, even with huge tires. And like I said, the Bud's are slow, until they're fast. Hopefully you've experienced conditions that favor the big'uns.

This is my 2nd fat bike and I better know what I want and what I like. All the upgrades probably put it around $2,000 but still a good value for good quality. For that money, there are lots of nice bikes available but I don't believe any can match the value or quality and would require more $ to match my ride. Rode it in a race Friday night at the Breck nordic center. Didn't place great but had a fun time.


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

Tips-Up said:


> The stock fork is nice with all the grommets and I like the bladed style, but it was 4+ pounds and the new carbon is less than half for only $137. I'm not the biggest guy and my fatty usually rides in slow conditions, so I'm OK with the china carbon fork. So far so good, looks identical to my buddy's stock Framed Alaskan fork.
> 
> 150mm 26er Fat Bicycle Fork Full Carbon thru Axle UD Matt Tapered Tube Disc | eBay
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the details. So this is with a carbon rigid fork which sounds is about 2lb. The Bluto fork is 4lb so I guess I can be looking at possible getting the bike down to about 32lb. That's not that bad when one factors in a suspension fork.

What size is your frame?


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

I must have missed that the 30.5 pounds was with a carbon fork. Makes sense. The Sturgis is only a pound or two heavier than my Farley 7. (Farley w/racks, mirrors, lights etc) 

But, when you pick up the front of both bikes it feels like there is an anchor tied to the front of the Sturgis. 

Carbon fork is definitely on the upgrade list some day.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Don't know about the Farley Al frame, but the medium Sturgis/Nighttrain frame weighs just under 5 lbs, and the stock fork adds another 3 (see the good work done in post #1041, page 42 of this thread). Everything else is whatever.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

I built my large Sturgis/Bluto frameset to 30.8 lbs. That's with 1x10 drivetrain, tubeless Mulefut wheelset and 120tpi Snowshoes. The only carbon item on mine is the handlebars.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

*Shorter and wider...*

I swapped out the stock stem and handlebars with a 50mm Race Face stem and Subraosa 747 bars. What a difference! The bike's handling/steering is so much more lively and responsive with the 50mm stem. It feels like a new bike.


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## gfowkes (Sep 24, 2008)

*Fun!*

Well, after a couple weeks of monkeying around, I finally took her out on the maiden voyage.

First I ordered the medium, which is what I normally ride, but by the time you add 5" of tires, and the Bluto fork, and the standover height was WAY too close for comfort. Sent it back and got the small, and boy am I happy I did. This thing is so fun and playful.

Wide bars, short stem, 1x10, tubeless with around 6 pounds of pressure.

Couple minor tweaks, but overall felt very comfortable.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Here's a quick vid of my buddy and I on our Sturgis and Lurch this Saturday here in Colorado Springs.


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

gfowkes said:


> Well, after a couple weeks of monkeying around, I finally took her out on the maiden voyage.
> 
> First I ordered the medium, which is what I normally ride, but by the time you add 5" of tires, and the Bluto fork, and the standover height was WAY too close for comfort. Sent it back and got the small, and boy am I happy I did. This thing is so fun and playful.
> 
> ...


Looks great, I like the 1x11 setup, what did you use? Is the info in earlier posts?


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

My large NTB w/100mm Bluto is coming in at ~34 pounds now, stock except: tubeless mulfuts, 40mm husselfelt stem, 640mm XLC riser bar, Ergon GE1 grips, Candy 1 pedals, and T-Mars dropper seat post. I'm annoyed that I'm so far from 30#, but still feel that the bike was a good deal. I think if I converted to carbon handlebars and stem, a lighter dropper, and 1x10 or 1x11 I could get down to 31.X# but it doesn't seem worth it.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Fleas said:


> +1
> 
> The non-drive side bearing nut/retainer came loose on mine and some others. Needs degreased and Loc-Tited. If it does come loose, tighten it immediately, even if just by hand. I have a theory that it will lead to the destruction of your ratchet if left loose.
> 
> ...


Just another reminder to everyone to check their non-drive side endcap on the rear hub/axle. After 75 miles mine started coming loose. I pulled everything apart and cleaned away the dirt, re-lubed the rear axle and rachet, and then degreased and applied medium-strength thread locker to the endcap and axle threads. I can see how this can possibly destroy the rachet pawls if left loose, as the axle appears to keep the freehub body secured into the hub shell, since the seal isn't snug enough to hold it together. At the very least, unscrew the endcap, apply thread locker, and tighten it back up.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

gfowkes said:


> Well, after a couple weeks of monkeying around, I finally took her out on the maiden voyage.
> 
> First I ordered the medium, which is what I normally ride, but by the time you add 5" of tires, and the Bluto fork, and the standover height was WAY too close for comfort. Sent it back and got the small, and boy am I happy I did. This thing is so fun and playful.
> 
> ...


Nice bike, love the color!


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## spartan_msu (May 8, 2008)

I posted up a little further about narrowing the q factor using a different crank. Well I ended up finding a really cost effective way of doing it. Race Face Aeffect cranks have a 24mm spindle (same as the Sturgis BB), and are a direct mount chainring. You can get them brand new for $110, and a used chainring for between $15-40. I mounted it up last night and it works great with a little room to spare (first picture is bad, clearance is the same on both sides). By flipping the Race Face chainring you get a chainline that is within 1.5mm of the stock crank.


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## iCollector (Nov 14, 2012)

Out of curiosity.... I bought a set of extra wheels from BD so I could have a set of hybrid, and a set of winter/trail setups ready to swap easily.

Well in preparation for the snow, I finally got the chance to swap the wheels.

Found out the rear axle was not the same as the one on the bike. I was scratching my head when the disc wasn't positioned even close to being usable. That's when I took a closer look. It never occurred to me that they would not sell the set with a front/rear axle setup. The front went on no problem.

Am I missing something - could be! Thanks anyone....


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

did you get two small spacers in the box? for the rear? I believe those extra wheelsets ship with 190 hubs, and then via the spacers or caps it works with the sturg and nighttrain frame... but I imagine someone else on here can shed more light on it


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

spartan_msu said:


> I posted up a little further about narrowing the q factor using a different crank. Well I ended up finding a really cost effective way of doing it. Race Face Aeffect cranks have a 24mm spindle (same as the Sturgis BB), and are a direct mount chainring. You can get them brand new for $110, and a used chainring for between $15-40. I mounted it up last night and it works great with a little room to spare (first picture is bad, clearance is the same on both sides). By flipping the Race Face chainring you get a chainline that is within 1.5mm of the stock crank.


I'm using the Aeffect crankset as well, but with the spindle for 197 rear spacing. So are you using the spindle with 170/175 spacing? What BB are you using, and how many spacers are you using on each side of the BB shell and spindle?


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## spartan_msu (May 8, 2008)

I am using the 170mm rear spaced spindle. I am using the stock Sturgis BB. There are 2 drive side spacers and 1 non drive side spacer.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

spartan_msu said:


> I am using the 170mm rear spaced spindle. I am using the stock Sturgis BB. There are 2 drive side spacers and 1 non drive side spacer.


Interesting - thanks for the info. Questions...are those the stock snowshoes? When in the lowest gear, what does chain/tire clearance look like?


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## gfowkes (Sep 24, 2008)

twright205 said:


> did you get two small spacers in the box? for the rear? I believe those extra wheelsets ship with 190 hubs, and then via the spacers or caps it works with the sturg and nighttrain frame... but I imagine someone else on here can shed more light on it


I bought the MuleFat wheelset from BD. The rear fit fine, but the front came with spacers to fit Bluto fork.


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## gfowkes (Sep 24, 2008)

dariusf said:


> Looks great, I like the 1x11 setup, what did you use? Is the info in earlier posts?


Thanks! Its actually 1x10. 28T Raceface direct mount up front, 42 eThirteen cog in rear.


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## gfowkes (Sep 24, 2008)

spartan_msu said:


> I posted up a little further about narrowing the q factor using a different crank. Well I ended up finding a really cost effective way of doing it. Race Face Aeffect cranks have a 24mm spindle (same as the Sturgis BB), and are a direct mount chainring. You can get them brand new for $110, and a used chainring for between $15-40. I mounted it up last night and it works great with a little room to spare (first picture is bad, clearance is the same on both sides). By flipping the Race Face chainring you get a chainline that is within 1.5mm of the stock crank.


Just curious. Why narrower Q-factor? I like the stability of the wide stance, and don't notice much of a difference compared to my regular bike. BTW - I'm using the same (but wider) cranks with a direct mount CR.


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## iCollector (Nov 14, 2012)

twright205 said:


> did you get two small spacers in the box? for the rear? I believe those extra wheelsets ship with 190 hubs, and then via the spacers or caps it works with the sturg and nighttrain frame... but I imagine someone else on here can shed more light on it


Oh boy... LOL - I got these so long ago that I can't recall. If they normally send them, I probably have them somewhere!

Thanks!


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

gfowkes said:


> Thanks! Its actually 1x10. 28T Raceface direct mount up front, 42 eThirteen cog in rear.


Thanks, this mirrors my 1x10 summer bike setup except I run 32T front and added 40T rear. For my now sold fatty I had 2x10 with 30T on the front and 11-36 rear. This new build I plan to convert to 1x10 and remove the front derailleur / snifter. I might add a 40T in the rear. Will have to see how the chainline will be with the stock crankset.


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## Leisureclass (Dec 9, 2015)

Upgraded to Night Train bullet from Sturgis bullet 
(more for want than need) 
Loving the Snow shoe XL's I put on it!


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

Leisureclass said:


> Upgraded to Night Train bullet from Sturgis bullet
> (more for want than need)
> Loving the Snow shoe XL's I put on it!
> 
> ...


What kind of conditions have you used the Snowshoe XLs for? I've got a pair of studded ones on a rigid sturgis and not thrilled with them. I tend to wash out in turns and have some issues on off camber stuff. I ride groomed thats been hardpack to a little loose to hardpack with new snow dusting. I get pretty good straight line and hill traction but turns and off camber can get squirrely. Sometimes dropping pressure works but other times all it does is add self steer on top of the washing out


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## Haste11 (Jul 5, 2014)

spartan_msu said:


> I am using the 170mm rear spaced spindle. I am using the stock Sturgis BB. There are 2 drive side spacers and 1 non drive side spacer.


I did this as well on my Lurch a few weeks ago, works great! 170mm rear spaced Aeffect spindle and flipped 28T. Best money spent on mods so far.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Leisureclass (Dec 9, 2015)

I have the 4.8 Snowshoe xl 120 tpi silica compound studable (not studded)
I have only had them out 4 or 5 times...
I rode them on hard pack snow and ice at the beach tonight and they handled very well on all but the black smooth ice. Even the crusty ice was grippy. I rode the trails in deeper un-groomed snow and they handled as well as the surley (back)-maxis FBF(front) combo my brother has...slow going but pulling through. I am also nursing a broken arm from a few months back so I am taking it a bit easier than usual as it is still sore...As such I haven't ridden fast on groomed snow yet, I plan to do so this week. I will keep you posted.


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## kirkmw (May 27, 2008)

*My Sturgis Bullet Experience (giving back to this helpful forum!)*








Received my large purple Sturgis Bullet a little over a week ago after spending much time reading up on this forum. Thanks for everyone's info. I'm in a winter climate and riding in snow and on the lake Michigan beach. My thoughts to date:

I've built 50-60 bikes up from frames in the past. I was impressed with the build quality and the paint. Wow! The seat, post and bars are super heavy. Not surprised as that's the norm these days on even big name bikes. Replaced with them some take off items I had laying around (and saved 3/4 pound). First ride (night ride in the woods - packed snow) bike was quicker and more response than i expected and a blast to ride.

Changed it over to a 1x10 replacing the chain ring with a race face 30 tooth removing shifter and front derailleur (dropped 389 grams).

More rides - more fun. Went too low on the snowshoe PSI, big mistake. Played with Bluto psi. I'm 190 pounds, currently 100psi feels right, will need to increase that as the fork breaks in. At the recommended psi (via fork label) it was rock hard. Amazed how well I can ride on the beach with the 4.5 tires.

Did the Sun tubeless conversion F & R today. Highly recommend the kit vs Gorilla tape. I've done both. The Sun strips are way lighter (50 grams vs 150 grams per wheel) than the OEM strips and it was simple. Saved 1.2 pounds on the rear and 1.0 pounds on the front. Note: I didn't have any issue setting the bead without reinserting the tube like some of the YouTube videos. The tire popped right on with an air compressor and the wheels seal up even better than a Stan's 29er wheel. Awesome. The toughest part was breaking the old bead to get the tires off.

When spinning the wheel with the cassette off, holding the freewheel, I noticed a "catch" in the freewheel slowing the wheel spinning. I removed the freewheel and cleaned it out, re-lubed and it's fine now. Geeked to see sealed bearings in the hubs. Someone mentioned locktite on the axle nut on the non drive side and they are right on. Mine was a tad loose - that will mess up the freehub. Those threads are a loose fit - so lock tite is key.

The tires are righter than I expected - 1330 grams.

I'm at 33 pounds with platform pedals and the Bluto. I'm good with that for my purposes. Am curious to try one of the BikesDirect carbon fork on this.

Thanks again for all the tips!


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Right on kirkmn! I agree 100% with all of your comments. I'm 200 lbs naked and I think I'm using around 115 psi in the fork, and it's still on the firm side, but I'm finding it works well with the big tires. I think the sticker recommends like 130 psi, and it was way too firm.

I've been playing around with tire pressure and I'm finding that 7 to 7.5 psi front and rear is a good balance for non-snow riding. The trick is to keep the bounce down in the rear while not going so low that you create excess drag or rimstrikes. For the front, the trick is to stay high enough to minimize self steer, while optimizing cornering traction and avoiding tire bounce (the Bluto makes that later almost a non-issue for the front tire though).

I rode in 8+ inches of fresh powder last week and had to air down to 3.5 psi front and rear, and still stuggled. My buddy, who is a phenomenal rider and has been riding fat for years, aired his 4.8" Lou's down to 1.5 psi and was getting around a little better than me, but still had to hike a lot.


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

OhioPT said:


> Right on kirkmn! I agree 100% with all of your comments. I'm 200 lbs naked and I think I'm using around 115 psi in the fork, and it's still on the firm side, but I'm finding it works well with the big tires. I think the sticker recommends like 130 psi, and it was way too firm.
> 
> I've been playing around with tire pressure and I'm finding that 7 to 7.5 psi front and rear is a good balance for non-snow riding. The trick is to keep the bounce down in the rear while not going so low that you create excess drag or rimstrikes. For the front, the trick is to stay high enough to minimize self steer, while optimizing cornering traction and avoiding tire bounce (the Bluto makes that later almost a non-issue for the front tire though).
> 
> ...


If you have not looked, check and see how many tokens / spacers you have in the air side of your fork. I now have 4 in mine, this helps a lot. Able to run a little less air without bottoming out the fork.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> +1
> 
> The non-drive side bearing nut/retainer came loose on mine and some others. Needs degreased and Loc-Tited. If it does come loose, tighten it immediately, even if just by hand. I have a theory that it will lead to the destruction of your ratchet if left loose.
> 
> ...


I may have been a little over-zealous in tightening my NDS end cap. It put a pretty good bind on the freehub bearings giving them a notchy feel.
I took it all apart, knocked out the bearings, and they were perfectly smooth.
Pressing the bearings back in, I found it was very easy to compress the 2 freehub bearings against the spacer in the freehub, so I re-did it very gently. Then I installed the axle very gently and tightened the NDS end cap very gently and the wheel spins nice and smooth.
With too much (even a little!) axle compression, the inner races get a side load on them from the bearing spacer = no good.

-F


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> And here I go again...
> 
> The rear hub has made a loud "click" from time to time when applying heavy pedal pressure since new. Usu. from a stop. I have finally determined that it is one of the ratchet pawls. I don't know if it is engaging or disengaging when it clicks but I'm open to suggestions on preventing a cat a$$ trophy. So far the ratchet is clean and lubed with a light grease/oil mixture. I am going to take it apart to see if there is evidence of wear/damage.
> 
> -F


Here's what I found...


























Kinda like bite marks in the hub body at the base of the pawls.
Not sure what that means for the life of my hub.
The leading edges of the pawls where they engage the drive ring look fine. :???:

And yes, I had to file the bite marks from the cogs off the freehub body.

Just for kicks - and because I think 10 cogs is too many - I moved my 15T and my 25T behind my 36T, making it a virtual 8-speed. We'll see how it goes. I spend a lot of time in my 22T.

-F


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

Ouch that does not look good. Approximately how many miles do you think you have put on the bike for it to look like this? Maybe it was the cassette that comes with the bike? Steel cassette chewing up the aluminum / alloy freehub? I will be replacing it with 11-36 XT when I build the bike as I have one extra which might hopefully reduce this. Was your cassette tight with no movement?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

dariusf said:


> Ouch that does not look good. Approximately how many miles do you think you have put on the bike for it to look like this? Maybe it was the cassette that comes with the bike? Steel cassette chewing up the aluminum / alloy freehub? I will be replacing it with 11-36 XT when I build the bike as I have one extra which might hopefully reduce this. Was your cassette tight with no movement?


The cogs are expected to put gouges in the FH body. It's inevitable. I have another bike with an American Classic rear hub and they use steel inserts on their aluminum freehubs so the cogs don't bite.

My bigger issue - which is much less noticeable in the picture - is near the ratchet pawls. The free hub body near the ratchet pawls is moving far enough away from the axle that it is hitting the drive ring in the hub body and leaving marks. Nothing is loose, so this can only happen due to deflection of the axle or hub body.







...and I'm just not that big. ~190#.

-F


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

Fleas said:


> The cogs are expected to put gouges in the FH body. It's inevitable. I have another bike with an American Classic rear hub and they use steel inserts on their aluminum freehubs so the cogs don't bite.
> 
> My bigger issue - which is much less noticeable in the picture - is near the ratchet pawls. The free hub body near the ratchet pawls is moving far enough away from the axle that it is hitting the drive ring in the hub body and leaving marks. Nothing is loose, so this can only happen due to deflection of the axle or hub body.
> View attachment 1046896
> ...


Now I understand, thanks for the pic and explanation


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Fleas said:


> I may have been a little over-zealous in tightening my NDS end cap. It put a pretty good bind on the freehub bearings giving them a notchy feel.
> I took it all apart, knocked out the bearings, and they were perfectly smooth.
> Pressing the bearings back in, I found it was very easy to compress the 2 freehub bearings against the spacer in the freehub, so I re-did it very gently. Then I installed the axle very gently and tightened the NDS end cap very gently and the wheel spins nice and smooth.
> With too much (even a little!) axle compression, the inner races get a side load on them from the bearing spacer = no good.
> ...


So when you first tightened up the end cap, did the wheel still spin freely, or did you not check it? I'm asking because now I'm a little concerned that I may have over tightened my end cap, although the wheel spun very freely when I checked it immediately afterwards.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

OhioPT said:


> So when you first tightened up the end cap, did the wheel still spin freely, or did you not check it? I'm asking because now I'm a little concerned that I may have over tightened my end cap, although the wheel spun very freely when I checked it immediately afterwards.


The first time it came loose, I simply loosened the thru-axle and tightened the end cap with a narrow wrench - probably too much. It didn't _feel_ bad as I spun the wheel, and it didn't have a huge amount of drag, but when I took it apart this time I realized how over-tight it was: the bearings were "notchy" even with the freehub off the bike and no longer under compression. After I reassembled it correctly, it verified that I had over-tightened it before.
The mass of the wheel hides some of those inefficiencies, plus it looks to me like if the freehub bearings were really tight, they might just spin on the axle. It would be hard to discern until it got really bad and metal was grinding metal.
Not to scare you. I rode it that way for several months and I found no damage, and the bearings felt fine when I put it back together.

-F


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## dubblewubble (Aug 21, 2013)

*1x10 setup on a Night Train Bullet?*

Hey all!

Haven't purchased a Night Train Bullet yet, but I'm thinking I'll convert to 1x10 right off the bat. Does anybody know if the 4 bolt spider that comes with the Turbine's has a 104mm BCD?

Also, for anyone that's converted, what chainring do you use? Thinking a Race Face Wide Narrow, but I'm not sure how it'd work without a chain guide and the long cage X9 Type 2. Might be too loose with the long cage even with the clutch. Would probably go 30/32 up front, and use an expander ring (40/42) in the back, so maybe the long cage X9 would be good for that big expander ring?

Thanks in advance for any input!


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

dubblewubble said:


> Hey all!
> 
> Haven't purchased a Night Train Bullet yet, but I'm thinking I'll convert to 1x10 right off the bat. Does anybody know if the 4 bolt spider that comes with the Turbine's has a 104mm BCD?
> 
> ...


I have used Race Face Wide Narrow chainrings and X7 long cage and XT medium cage with clutch derailleur with no issues. My Ibis SLR right now is converted from 2x10 XT/XTR setup to 1x10 using the Race Face 32T chainring. I kept the same XT 2 ring cranks just removed the inner chainring and front shifter. You do need to adjust the chain length appropriately. I did add a chain guide after some time but it was as an extra precaution as I managed to drop the chain once on a quick downhill with jumps. On my other fatty (sold now) it was X7 setup and there I just replaced the large chainring with Race Face Wide Narrow 30T for snow.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

twright205 said:


> did you get two small spacers in the box? for the rear? I believe those extra wheelsets ship with 190 hubs, and then via the spacers or caps it works with the sturg and nighttrain frame... but I imagine someone else on here can shed more light on it


Yes there are 2 rear spacers for the rear... They forgot to include them with mine and they are a pain in the a$$ to install with the rear 190 axle.

The hub is the same as the stock mulefuts that come with the sturgis. The hollow axle that goes through the hub is different, it is 190mm vs 197mm, requiring the frame spacers. If you do not install the spacers for the rear, The through axle will pull the chain-stays together the extra 7mm... (Not good for the frame long term). I only noticed this after installing the 27.5 rims and saw about 7mm worth of threads sticking out past the threads in the deraillure hanger. Luckily I noticed this immediately and removed the rim. I contacted bikesdirect and they sent me the frame spacers very quickly. The best way to install the 190mm axle with spacers is to have the bike upside-down, otherwise the spacers fall out, or put grease on the spacers so they stick to the frame


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## dubblewubble (Aug 21, 2013)

dariusf said:


> I have used Race Face Wide Narrow chainrings and X7 long cage and XT medium cage with clutch derailleur with no issues. My Ibis SLR right now is converted from 2x10 XT/XTR setup to 1x10 using the Race Face 32T chainring. I kept the same XT 2 ring cranks just removed the inner chainring and front shifter. You do need to adjust the chain length appropriately. I did add a chain guide after some time but it was as an extra precaution as I managed to drop the chain once on a quick downhill with jumps. On my other fatty (sold now) it was X7 setup and there I just replaced the large chainring with Race Face Wide Narrow 30T for snow.
> 
> View attachment 1047022
> View attachment 1047023
> ...


Thanks a bunch for the advice! Sounds like a shouldn't have a problem without a chain guide. Nice setups!


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

dubblewubble said:


> Thanks a bunch for the advice! Sounds like a shouldn't have a problem without a chain guide. Nice setups!


I'm riding the race face ride with narrow wide 30t. I put on a 42t GC.

It's a nice combo because I didn't even need to shorten the chain.

No other mods needed, and I've never dropped the chain! Enjoy


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

dubblewubble said:


> Thanks a bunch for the advice! Sounds like a shouldn't have a problem without a chain guide. Nice setups!


no problem, good luck. I had to remove I think it was a couple links in my setup to have the proper tension but the XT stealth has a clutch that does a very good job of maintain the chain tension. On the fatty I did not change the length of the chain at all.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

I'd go with a 30t for 1x10, which is as small as you can fit on a 104 bcd spider. If your crank is direct mount, or you are using the inner chainring position of the spider, I'd go 28t. The big wheels and tires require more effort to pedal, especially in soft conditions like snow and sand.


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

OhioPT said:


> I'd go with a 30t for 1x10, which is as small as you can fit on a 104 bcd spider. If your crank is direct mount, or you are using the inner chainring position of the spider, I'd go 28t. The big wheels and tires require more effort to pedal, especially in soft conditions like snow and sand.


Agree, for snow I mounted 30T which worked well with 11-36 cassette. Although in my case I later upped it to 32T as it gave me a better fitting gear range. Only way is to try and see what works for you.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

The 197mm axle tubes for the 27.5 and 29er rims are now in stock, and I have ordered one so I do not need to use those stupid spacers, cost was $18.95 + $7 (S&H). Below is a copy of the e-mail:

"Good news! we just received some 12x197 axles yesterday! Give Marissa a call at Bike Fettish on Monday at 951-817-7741 or reply to her email ( I will CC her on this message) and she will be able to help you out with your purchase. "


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## spartan_msu (May 8, 2008)

Just a heads up to everyone (I think it has been stated before), but make sure to check the tightness of the rear freehub/ axle. I decided to look at mine last night after some weird hub engagement lately. I was able to remove the non-drive side nut by hand, it was very loose and had some play in it. I removed the freehub, cleaned and re-greased the pawls and properly tightened the assembly back together. I couldn't find my loctite, but I will be putting some of that on it as well. Could have been a bad situation if it got any looser.

And just to clarify I am not talking about the thru axle its self, but the axle it goes through on the hub.


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

spartan_msu said:


> Just a heads up to everyone (I think it has been stated before), but make sure to check the tightness of the rear freehub/ axle. I decided to look at mine last night after some weird hub engagement lately. I was able to remove the non-drive side nut by hand, it was very loose and had some play in it. I removed the freehub, cleaned and re-greased the pawls and properly tightened the assembly back together. I couldn't find my loctite, but I will be putting some of that on it as well. Could have been a bad situation if it got any looser.
> 
> And just to clarify I am not talking about the thru axle its self, but the axle it goes through on the hub.


Is this with the Mulefut rims with NOVATEC hubs? I checked my and it looks good


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## spartan_msu (May 8, 2008)

Yes, Mulefut rims and Novatec hubs. I just got my bike in early January.


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## OttaCee (Jul 24, 2013)

Anyone using the BD 29+ wheelsets? 
PAIR of 29 PLUS FatBike WTB TCS Tubeless Compatible Wheels + FREE Tires: VeeRubber TraxFatty 29x3 inch

Do these fit on the Sturgis/Night Trains?

Love to run 29+ in the summer and be able to ride my fat frame all year long.


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

spartan_msu said:


> Yes, Mulefut rims and Novatec hubs. I just got my bike in early January.


Thats what I have. So it came undone after some riding? My bike was shipped in Nov 2015 but is still in pieces and the nut looks good as shipped


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

*Novatec rear 197/190 hub - non drive side end cap - check every ride.*



dariusf said:


> Thats what I have. So it came undone after some riding? My bike was shipped in Nov 2015 but is still in pieces and the nut looks good as shipped


Yes. On all three bikes I've had with this hub, on the Lurch (190 QR) and my Sturgis and Night Train Bullets. Even with loctite, they work loose. You have to stay on top of these. Once they loosen up, it negatively effects the freehub pawl engagement with the ratchet ring in the hub, and things will quickly crater. When (I typed if, but realized its an inevitability) you hear/feel any popping or pinging under load, this is probably the cuplrit. If you let it go, this hub will eat itself. If you're diligent, it will run fine (and I'm a clyde).


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

watermonkey said:


> Yes. On all three bikes I've had with this hub, on the Lurch (190 QR) and my Sturgis and Night Train Bullets. Even with loctite, they work loose. You have to stay on top of these. Once they loosen up, it negatively effects the freehub pawl engagement with the ratchet ring in the hub, and things will quickly crater. When (I typed if, but realized its an inevitability) you hear/feel any popping or pinging under load, this is probably the cuplrit. If you let it go, this hub will eat itself. If you're diligent, it will run fine (and I'm a clyde).


great info, I check my bikes throughout maybe every ~100 miles, so that's definitely going to be on the check list.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Thanks for the heads-up on this. Speaking of the wheel area...anyone replace the tektro rotors with some that don't rust quite as easily? Mine started rusting almost immediately.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

dayooper said:


> Thanks for the heads-up on this. Speaking of the wheel area...anyone replace the tektro rotors with some that don't rust quite as easily? Mine started rusting almost immediately.


I replaced my rotors with Magura Storm SL 180mm front, 160mm rear. Good weight saving and work well. The odd squeal when covered in snow but not bad.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

watermonkey said:


> Yes. On all three bikes I've had with this hub, on the Lurch (190 QR) and my Sturgis and Night Train Bullets. Even with loctite, they work loose. You have to stay on top of these. Once they loosen up, it negatively effects the freehub pawl engagement with the ratchet ring in the hub, and things will quickly crater. When (I typed if, but realized its an inevitability) you hear/feel any popping or pinging under load, this is probably the cuplrit. If you let it go, this hub will eat itself. If you're diligent, it will run fine (and I'm a clyde).


Excellent advice. I wrecked a freehub because of this issue on a set of chinese carbon rims I bought. Now I check to make sure the cap is tight on almost every ride. Since doing that, I haven't had a problem, but I do notice that they come loose easily.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

spartan_msu said:


> Just a heads up to everyone (I think it has been stated before), but make sure to check the tightness of the rear freehub/ axle. I decided to look at mine last night after some weird hub engagement lately. I was able to remove the non-drive side nut by hand, it was very loose and had some play in it. I removed the freehub, cleaned and re-greased the pawls and properly tightened the assembly back together. I couldn't find my loctite, but I will be putting some of that on it as well. Could have been a bad situation if it got any looser.
> 
> And just to clarify I am not talking about the thru axle its self, but the axle it goes through on the hub.





watermonkey said:


> Yes. On all three bikes I've had with this hub, on the Lurch (190 QR) and my Sturgis and Night Train Bullets. Even with loctite, they work loose. You have to stay on top of these. Once they loosen up, it negatively effects the freehub pawl engagement with the ratchet ring in the hub, and things will quickly crater. When (I typed if, but realized its an inevitability) you hear/feel any popping or pinging under load, this is probably the cuplrit. If you let it go, this hub will eat itself. If you're diligent, it will run fine (and I'm a clyde).


Just reiterating: DO NOT over-tighten that NDS nut. But YES, check it often. I have done pretty good with degreasing and Loc-Titing. The nut, even after removal and re-install has a fair amount of interference fit to keep it in place (the Loc-Tite stayed in the nut).

-F


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

watermonkey said:


> Yes. On all three bikes I've had with this hub, on the Lurch (190 QR) and my Sturgis and Night Train Bullets. Even with loctite, they work loose. You have to stay on top of these. Once they loosen up, it negatively effects the freehub pawl engagement with the ratchet ring in the hub, and things will quickly crater. When (I typed if, but realized its an inevitability) you hear/feel any popping or pinging under load, this is probably the cuplrit. If you let it go, this hub will eat itself. If you're diligent, it will run fine (and I'm a clyde).


I'm an idiot. any chance you could toss up a pic of what you are talking about?


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## H2OResQ (Dec 15, 2015)

Ordered the Night Train Bullet 15.5". Arrives tomorrow! Thanks for all of the useful info on here and to the people who replied to my questions regarding size. I will definitely be keeping my eye on the rear hub! Will post pics as soon as I get it up and running.


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

twright205 said:


> I'm an idiot. any chance you could toss up a pic of what you are talking about?


+2 I'd also like to see what it is your referring too, please.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Guy.Ford said:


> +2 I'd also like to see what it is your referring too, please.


Mine was still tight but I checked it and added Loctite anyway.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Check the rear (if that isn't the rear, I can't tell for sure by those pics). The rear hub is the one to watch because when that cap loosens, things mis-align and then break, namely the drive pawls


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

AthleticAL said:


> Check the rear (if that isn't the rear, I can't tell for sure by those pics). The rear hub is the one to watch because when that cap loosens, things mis-align and then break, namely the drive pawls


Exactly. Keep everything snug and if starts to ping under load replace those pawls asap.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Yes, that is the rear.

The front doesn't look like that.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

^ 10-4. I didn't see a cassette in the pics so just wanted to clarify for the sake of all.

I guess by now we ALL know that the REAR AXLE CAP on the NON-DRIVE-SIDE needs to be loc-tited for maximum lifespan.

Right? Right. Sweet. More action pics, please!


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

As long as we are asking stupid questions.......

What do you use to tighten it since it doesn't look like a hex nut?


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

17mm wrenches on each side.


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

Jeff_G said:


> As long as we are asking stupid questions.......
> 
> What do you use to tighten it since it doesn't look like a hex nut?


Not tighten. Snug.... Snug often.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Any thoughts on using Red loctite? Although I've never needed to you supposedly need heat to break it loose. It should not come loose with the Red.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Jeff_G said:


> Any thoughts on using Red loctite? Although I've never needed to you supposedly need heat to break it loose. It should not come loose with the Red.


I used it. It wouldn't have been my 1st choice honestly, but it was what I had on hand at the time. If I have to hit it with some careful application of heat some day in the future, so be it. For now, i'm just happy because it's doing it's job


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Since the nut is aluminum and has a seal on the inboard end, I would not use anything that requires heat to break it loose since it'll destroy that seal for sure, and possibly the bearing seals.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

In most applications blue loctite is the best choice. I have never used green or the dreaded red. Whether it is on an rc car, motorcycle or bicycle; blue is the best choice 95% of the time. Green is nearly useless and red means stop/caution, think about it... are you going to need to take this apart again?


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

byron555 said:


> Green is nearly useless and red means stop/caution, think about it... are you going to need to take this apart again?


lol that's awesome

yes use blue loctite, oh and anti seize on the pedals


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Ok, i have never looked at my hubs but I do have the occasional click under power. What should I be taking apart and tightening with loctite? Luckily I have some of the blue stuff...


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

TheNormsk said:


> Ok, i have never looked at my hubs but I do have the occasional click under power. What should I be taking apart and tightening with loctite? Luckily I have some of the blue stuff...


Take off NDS but pictures earlier. Pull axle with freehub out. Inspect pawls for scoring.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

My 197mm axle tube for the rear hub came today... went in perfectly. Now my 27.5 wheels swap over in about 2 minutes. I checked the stock Mulefut wheels and the axle tube was finger tight. This was the first time I have checked the axle. I snugged it up and will be adding blue loctite soon (currently I am out). My pawls were just fine after the approximate 500 miles of use. The rear hub is very easy to service (clean and lightly grease) I am sure bearing replacement makes it more difficult though.


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

are the bearings sealed or loose ball bearings?


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

^Cartridge bearings, not loose (cup and cone)

So no need to fear one of those racy little spheres jumping out and running away on you


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

Just did 8.5 miles on the 27.5" rims with 3.25" tires from BD on the sturgis. A mix of pavement with hardpack snow and ice. The stock (4.5") tires are certainly better off-road, but the 3.25's on the 27.5" work pretty well. No complaints here other than I had to order a 197mm axle tube to negate those stupid frame spacers. The 27.5's are going to see more commuter/summer duty btw.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

byron555 said:


> Just did 8.5 miles on the 27.5" rims with 3.25" tires from BD on the sturgis. A mix of pavement with hardpack snow and ice. The stock (4.5") tires are certainly better off-road, but the 3.25's on the 27.5" work pretty well. No complaints here other than I had to order a 197mm axle tube to negate those stupid frame spacers. The 27.5's are going to see more commuter/summer duty btw.


Byron,

Please advise us on where you ordered the 197mm axle tube from. Post a link if possible.

Thanks


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

byron555 said:


> The 197mm axle tubes for the 27.5 and 29er rims are now in stock, and I have ordered one so I do not need to use those stupid spacers, cost was $18.95 + $7 (S&H). Below is a copy of the e-mail:
> 
> "Good news! we just received some 12x197 axles yesterday! Give Marissa a call at Bike Fettish on Monday at 951-817-7741 or reply to her email ( I will CC her on this message) and she will be able to help you out with your purchase. "


posted this a few days ago, I called the number listed above and ordered the 197mm axle tube. It came quickly and swapping rims is super easy now.


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## jazzer2 (Aug 14, 2006)

Has anyone replaced the bearings in the bottom bracket? What size and where did you get them?


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

AthleticAL said:


> ^Cartridge bearings, not loose (cup and cone)
> 
> So no need to fear one of those racy little spheres jumping out and running away on you


great  yes I have experience with that in the XT hubs. Always fun rebuilding these hubs but the cost is far less


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

What you're looking for is Loctite 242 (blue). I also use 222 a lot (pink/purple, depending on who you talk to), which is slightly lower strength than 242. The red is 271 and it's meant to be permanent, which is why you need heat to break the bond. Most of the green and yellow products are designed for mounting studs and bearings, but they have very different properties, so you can't go by color alone. Some will also fill porosities in castings and welds.


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## H2OResQ (Dec 15, 2015)

*First ride with the NTB*

Finally, after almost a week of having the bike in my possession, I was able to get outside for a ride. I love it! The matte black NTB looks great! The 15'5" is perfect (I'm 5'9" and 31.5" inseam). 
I wanted to share some pics. Went out and invested in a Thule T2 bike rack as well.


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

H2OResQ said:


> Finally, after almost a week of having the bike in my possession, I was able to get outside for a ride. I love it! The matte black NTB looks great! The 15'5" is perfect (I'm 5'9" and 31.5" inseam).
> I wanted to share some pics. Went out and invested in a Thule T2 bike rack as well.


Congrats on the maiden voyage  I like that Jeep, I was thinking about getting a used older one to have easy way to move bikes. Its a bit hard for me to fit 3 bikes on the roof rack  Not to mention impossible if wife would like to join and taking 2 cars with 2 bikes per roof rack is a major pain.


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## makdaddy (Feb 11, 2016)

H20 - is that the new Thule T2 pro? sure looks like it. Is it as good as it looks?


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## H2OResQ (Dec 15, 2015)

dariusf said:


> Congrats on the maiden voyage  I like that Jeep, I was thinking about getting a used older one to have easy way to move bikes. Its a bit hard for me to fit 3 bikes on the roof rack  Not to mention impossible if wife would like to join and taking 2 cars with 2 bikes per roof rack is a major pain.


Thanks! I needed something hitch mounted because the fatty didn't fit in the trunk!:lol:


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## H2OResQ (Dec 15, 2015)

makdaddy said:


> H20 - is that the new Thule T2 pro? sure looks like it. Is it as good as it looks?


This is the Thule Transport T2. Backcountry.com has (had) them on sale for $314. Didn't want to pay the extra $$ for the new model. I read the specs on the Pro and where it does seem like a better option, the Transport T2 works great! Solid rack!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

I posted this pic elsewhere, but I just realized... My derailleur hanger did NOT bend! :lol:

-F


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

My Sturgis Bullet with the new Schwalbe Jumbo Jim Liteskin 4.8" (1240g each). The JJ measures 112mm (Max knob width) on 82mm Rolling Darryl rims at 20psi.















Below photo shows my previous tires - Bulldozer 4.7" (1370g each). It measures 108mm (max knob width) on 82mm Rolling Darryl Rims at 20 psi.






.

Thanks for viewing and cheers!


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

I put a carbon for on my SNB this week- the $94 option from Carbon-Cycles on eBay. Took it out for a ride, and WOW! It's like a whole new bike. It climbs so much better with the lighter front end.

If you've been considering throwing a rigid, lighter fork on the front end, I highly recommend it.


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

scottspark60 said:


> View attachment 1049501


This is a really good looking bike! Very well done!


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

Boo Bear said:


> I put a carbon for on my SNB this week- the $94 option from Carbon-Cycles on eBay. Took it out for a ride, and WOW! It's like a whole new bike. It climbs so much better with the lighter front end.
> 
> If you've been considering throwing a rigid, lighter fork on the front end, I highly recommend it.


Interesting. I had the opposite experience. Grabbed a used fork off a Trek Farley and hated it. Light for sure but way too stiff. I love the bluto, looking forward to some summer (29+) wheels!


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## jrss13 (Aug 15, 2009)

Maiden voyage today on my new 17.5 inch Night Train. Thankfully I had about 6 inches of fresh powder to play in.

First time on a fat bike... I've been riding ss rigid 29ers for the last 7 years. The traction is unbelievable


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Thanks dariusf.


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## BikeShopMonkey (Nov 18, 2010)

Was there ever a frame weight for these bikes ever posted?


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

BikeShopMonkey said:


> Was there ever a frame weight for these bikes ever posted?


Yes, posts 1041 and 1061, one weighed it at 2205 gm and one weighed at 2300 gm.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

*Action Pics*



AthleticAL said:


> ^ 10-4. I didn't see a cassette in the pics so just wanted to clarify for the sake of all.
> 
> I guess by now we ALL know that the REAR AXLE CAP on the NON-DRIVE-SIDE needs to be loc-tited for maximum lifespan.
> 
> Right? Right. Sweet. More action pics, please!


Here's a couple action vids (instead of pics):

Sturgis on the dry stuff:





Sturgis on the white stuff:


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## jazzer2 (Aug 14, 2006)

I ordered a SRAM GXP bb100 bottom bracket for my Sturgis and it doesn't fit the Samox crankset. The bb will fit and the crank will slide in but the seal on one side is too small and "flower" shaped.

So what BB should I get? The Sturgis doesn't use the Raceface crankset and I can't find a Samox compatible anything. Will a Raceface BB work here?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

jazzer2 said:


> I ordered a SRAM GXP bb100 bottom bracket for my Sturgis and it doesn't fit the Samox crankset. The bb will fit and the crank will slide in but the seal on one side is too small and "flower" shaped.
> 
> So what BB should I get? The Sturgis doesn't use the Raceface crankset and I can't find a Samox compatible anything. Will a Raceface BB work here?


I think any BB designed for the same spindle diameter should work.
You or your lbs can measure it or look it up, then find an acceptable BB.

Keep in mind that the only thing that makes it a fat bike BB is the inner plastic sleeve being longer. That sleeve isn't mandatory, so you don't need to search only fat bike BBs. If you're doing a lot of mud and muck with water, that sleeve does help though


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

jazzer2 said:


> I ordered a SRAM GXP bb100 bottom bracket for my Sturgis and it doesn't fit the Samox crankset. The bb will fit and the crank will slide in but the seal on one side is too small and "flower" shaped.
> 
> So what BB should I get? The Sturgis doesn't use the Raceface crankset and I can't find a Samox compatible anything. Will a Raceface BB work here?


Piggy-backing on what Tfinator said. Here's one that _should_ be compatible. Just double-check the spindle diameter on your crank. The sleeve will be short, but I agree that that should make little real world difference.

New Samox Bottom Bracket 24mm HollowTech II Shimano FSA | eBay


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## jazzer2 (Aug 14, 2006)

tfinator said:


> I think any BB designed for the same spindle diameter should work.
> You or your lbs can measure it or look it up, then find an acceptable BB.


That's what I thought too, but apparently it's more specific than that.


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## InvertedB (Feb 14, 2016)

I've been lurking in this thread for quite sometime, but wanted to finally make a post since ordering my Sturgis Bullet this morning. I absolutely can't wait to get out there and ride it. 

The one thing that made me hesitate for so long was not being comfortable with ordering a bike online and then finding the right shop to service it. In the end that turned out to be a moot point as I found Bikes Direct was local to me in Jacksonville, Florida and actually has two shops within 5 miles of me. If I've got to pay Florida sales tax on the order, at least I got the opportunity to make up for it with free setup and services.

It will be a long week waiting for this to come in from the Texas warehouse, but it's going to be a huge step up from the old Diamondback comfort bike I've been railing on in the local trails. Pretty sure that bike will be dead by the end of this week. Can't wait to add to the discussion!

-Jon

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


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## jazzer2 (Aug 14, 2006)

It looks like the Samox crankset may be similar to the Shimano Hollowtech II crankset. Can anybody confirm that?


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Rode 11 miles today in ~4" of snow and 19 degrees F. I found just under 5 psi front and rear to be ideal today for traction vs rim strikes (in the very rocky tech sections). I've logged a total of 100 miles now on this bike (I prefer my Rip9 when the trail conditions allow it). So far I'm very pleased with it. The only thing holding back performance on my custom build is the Snowshoes that came on the Mulefut wheelset. They're not bad, but are narrower than listed, and the tread is too squared off for aggressive cornering.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

tonyride1 said:


> ^ Ditto :thumbsup:


As an upgrade to the Samox crank - and like what i did - you could also use a 170 OLD crank ( for 170mm rear spacing) if you use single chainring. I'm using sram x5 with single raceface 30T narrow wide chainring. No clearance issues between the crank arms and chainstay. Also, on 4.8 jumbo jim mounted on 82mm rolling darryl rims at 20 psi - i could still get away with 4mm chain to tire clearance.



jazzer2 said:


> It looks like the Samox crankset may be similar to the Shimano Hollowtech II crankset. Can anybody confirm that?


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

Congrats on the new bike. Make sure to post the pics and your thoughts after some riding 



InvertedB said:


> Bikes Direct... actually has two shops within 5 miles of me


I had no idea they actually have physical locations


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I only knew of the one in Jacksonville.


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## InvertedB (Feb 14, 2016)

They have one in Jacksonville proper and another in Jacksonville Beach where I live. I didn't know about either so it was a pleasant surprise!

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

stock bb is 157g 
Xtr is 66g
The sleve is a joke on bottom brackets. Kind of like a cold sauna or drying underwear in a ziploc.


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## jay80424 (Jan 1, 2008)

Hi guys, 
Just ordered a night train last night. Can't wait. Little concerned I ordered the wrong size. I ride a Norco fluid lt2 17.5" in the summer. 

I like the more laid back slack feel than xcountry over the front wheel fit. I test rode a large Rocky Mountain blizzard and a large Norco Sasquatch and definatelly liked the feel of the Norco. (No surprise).

Based on the effective top tube length of the large Norco, the 19" night train was close, so I ordered that.

I'm 5,9 with a 32" inseam and about a 24"reach if I measured it right.

So, should I try to change my order to a 17.5, or stick with the 19"? 

Halp!


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

You definitely sound like you'd fit the 17.5 better by your measurements, but if you rode something with similar geo and liked it, then I'd probably stick with that. I'm 5-9 with a 31.5 bike inseam and think it fits perfect; if I had to choose, I'd probably go smaller before I went larger.

edit: I should also note I've got a carbon fork, which I believe reduces the standover by 0.5-1.0" from the bluto version, if that's what you're getting.


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## Stumpy406 (Dec 8, 2015)

Greetings,

I am 5'11.5" with an actual inseam of 31". I normally ride a taller bike but I opted for the 17.5" NTB and am extremely glad I did. Stand over on hard ground is ample but in the snow or soft ground anything higher would be a painful experience. 

I'd strongly suggest the 17.5". Enjoy the bike, it's a lot of fun.


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

Stumpy406 said:


> Greetings,
> 
> I am 5'11.5" with an actual inseam of 31". I normally ride a taller bike but I opted for the 17.5" NTB and am extremely glad I did. Stand over on hard ground is ample but in the snow or soft ground anything higher would be a painful experience.
> 
> I'd strongly suggest the 17.5". Enjoy the bike, it's a lot of fun.


Different strokes. I'm Stumpy's height and inseam and got the large. Yeah stepping off into soft snow creates a problem but I ride it all year long and frankly it kinda sucks in soft snow (awesome on top of hard concrete-like snow though). YMMV

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

myette10 said:


> Different strokes. I'm Stumpy's height and inseam and got the large. Yeah stepping off into soft snow creates a problem but I ride it all year long and frankly it kinda sucks in soft snow (awesome on top of hard concrete-like snow though). YMMV
> 
> Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


Re- kinda sucks in soft snow. Try going lower with the air pressure. The Snowshoes aren't the absolute best snow tires, but they're not bad either.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I am Stumpy's height and also got the large. It fits perfectly and I am glad I got it over the medium. I tried a bike locally that has the same dimensions as the medium and found it too cramped and to turn sharply, which is a requirement for our local trails.


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

AthleticAL said:


> Re- kinda sucks in soft snow. Try going lower with the air pressure. The Snowshoes aren't the absolute best snow tires, but they're not bad either.
> 
> View attachment 1050845
> 
> ...


That sloggy back and forth track you're making there where you fight through the powder? Not my bag, that's all. I'd rather do a trainer workout. Don't get me wrong I love riding on packed snow and the cold is no problem, I just don't enjoy that kind of grind. Have tried many tires and PSI as low as 3.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

myette10 said:


> That sloggy back and forth track you're making there are you fight through the powder? Not my bag, that's all. I'd rather do a trainer workout. Don't get me wrong I love riding on packed snow and the cold is no problem, I just don't enjoy that kind of grind. Have tried many tires and PSI as low as 3.


Yep. Diff'rent strokes...

Ride what makes you happy. I love a challenge, making first tracks, and riding what others dare not...

... sometimes


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

AthleticAL said:


> Re- kinda sucks in soft snow. Try going lower with the air pressure. The Snowshoes aren't the absolute best snow tires, but they're not bad either.


Only had couple rides with Snowshoes (I use Snowshoes XL with studs in snow) and based on some posts I had very low expectations for the regular Snowshoes. I was very pleasantly surprised how well they did on packed snow and iced up sections. Yes there are better snow options but it did fairly well in my case.



AthleticAL said:


> Try going lower with the air pressure


Very true, it is critical is to find the right PSI for your weight and conditions. Even 1psi can make a huge difference. Try to test between 5 and 7 and also varies between the front and rear wheels. I typically run 7 in rear and 8 in front on packed snow or dirt but on deeper snow I would drop it to maybe 5 and 6.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

jay80424 said:


> Hi guys,
> Just ordered a night train last night. Can't wait. Little concerned I ordered the wrong size. I ride a Norco fluid lt2 17.5" in the summer.
> 
> I like the more laid back slack feel than xcountry over the front wheel fit. I test rode a large Rocky Mountain blizzard and a large Norco Sasquatch and definatelly liked the feel of the Norco. (No surprise).
> ...


I'm 5'9" and my inseam with the book against the wall method without shoes is 31". I've been told i have long torso and arms. I have a small Sturgis (no Bluto) and with regular shoes on I have 1.5" of standover on dry ground. I don't think I would have gone any larger. I may toss a Bluto on at some point and that would drop standover to 0.5-1". I slid the seat back to help with the reach a little. It's not quite as stretched out as my medium Stumpjumper but it is comfortable for snow riding that I mainly bought it for and it works fine on dry trails.


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## jay80424 (Jan 1, 2008)

Thanks Guys,
I emailed them last night, changed it to a 17.5 Silver.
Got a tracking number this morning.

Cant wait!


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## Raq05 (Feb 19, 2016)

*Sturgis Bike Build*

I have been reading this thread for a few weeks and finally got my 17.5" Sturgis frame with Bluto form BD. Ordered the gloss black but had it sandblasted and powder coated to matte black. Here is the start.


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

Raq05 said:


> I have been reading this thread for a few weeks and finally got my 17.5" Sturgis frame with Bluto form BD. Ordered the gloss black but had it sandblasted and powder coated to matte black. Here is the start.


Nice! I'm right behind you. My frame is all stripped of components and ready for sandblasting and powder coating. Hopefully will get it done by end of next week and then the fun building it will begin.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

tonyride1 said:


> ^ Ditto :thumbsup:





Raq05 said:


> I have been reading this thread for a few weeks and finally got my 17.5" Sturgis frame with Bluto form BD. Ordered the gloss black but had it sandblasted and powder coated to matte black. Here is the start.


Nice. May I know what crankset are you using and is it 170 or 190/197 OLD?

Thanks.


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## Raq05 (Feb 19, 2016)

scottspark60 said:


> Nice. May I know what crankset are you using and is it 170 or 190/197 OLD?
> 
> Thanks.


Thx. Race Face Turbine Cinch Crankset 190/197 with 32T Wolf Tooth Chainring. Set up for 1 X 11.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

That would be an awesome crank!


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## H2OResQ (Dec 15, 2015)

myette10 said:


> Not tighten. Snug.... Snug often.
> 
> Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


How tight is "snug" exactly?


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## H2OResQ (Dec 15, 2015)

Brought my NTB to my LBS the other day because I got a flat and decided instead of replacing the tube, I'd have them set me up tubeless. The shop owner called back the next day saying it took three workers to get the tire off and they were having an impossible time getting the tire re-seated on the rim. He starting talking about Surly Nate tires and how he's built a ton of bikes recently with them, tubeless, with no issues. I ultimately decided to go with that idea and had him replace the stock showshoes with Nate's. He notified me that the install was painless and just wants to hold overnight to see if there's any leaks. Does anyone currently ride the Surly Nate and if so, how do you like them? No snow here in NYC so mostly just dirt/mud riding. Does the thinner 4.0" tire gain/lose any benefit? Also, after doing some research I noticed these tires come in 27TPI and 120TPI. For some reason I feel like he had the 27TPI versions since he said they cost about $75 each. Any insight on 27 vs. 120 TPI? I'm sitting here thinking, if anything I would want to go fatter instead of thinner so I'm kinda regretting the decision to go with the 4" tires. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I run Nates on my NTB and love them. I've ridden them for years on the Pug and not been disappointed. For dry conditions you don't need the 5" float but do want stellar traction, which they provide. I've found they roll well and stick like glue, but I have the 120 tpi version, not the 27. Can't comment on that, sorry. I'd buy them again but some have switched to the Van Helga and say they roll better. Mine measure larget than 4" on the 80mm Mulefüt's, closer to 4.1" and I have them set up tubeless.


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## H2OResQ (Dec 15, 2015)

Dilligaff said:


> I run Nates on my NTB and love them. I've ridden them for years on the Pug and not been disappointed. For dry conditions you don't need the 5" float but do want stellar traction, which they provide. I've found they roll well and stick like glue, but I have the 120 tpi version, not the 27. Can't comment on that, sorry. I'd buy them again but some have switched to the Van Helga and say they roll better. Mine measure larget than 4" on the 80mm Mulefüt's, closer to 4.1" and I have them set up tubeless.


Great info. Thanks, Dilligaff.


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## Raq05 (Feb 19, 2016)

*Sturgis Custom Build*

Finally finished the build from Sturgis frame with Bluto and went on my maiden voyage today. Awesome!


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## H2OResQ (Dec 15, 2015)

Raq05 said:


> Finally finished the build from Sturgis frame with Bluto and went on my maiden voyage today. Awesome!
> 
> View attachment 1052840


Looks great. How'd you remove the lettering on the frame?


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## H2OResQ (Dec 15, 2015)

Update...the Surly Nate's are awesome. Finally tubeless! They're wider than I expected but as Dilligaff mentioned when you mount them on the 80mm rims they do come out a bit wider. Super knobby! They're the 27TPI version but I'm happy with them.


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## Raq05 (Feb 19, 2016)

H2OResQ said:


> Looks great. How'd you remove the lettering on the frame?


I couldn't purchase a matte black frame only from BD. So I had the standard black frame sandblasted and powder coated by my buddy.

More so that I wanted this finish rather than I was trying to debadge.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

H2OResQ said:


> Update...the Surly Nate's are awesome. Finally tubeless! They're wider than I expected but as Dilligaff mentioned when you mount them on the 80mm rims they do come out a bit wider. Super knobby! They're the 27TPI version but I'm happy with them.


They're tougher than the 120tpi but less supple, which doesn't matter as much in the non-winter months. I know lots of people running them but at the time my Pugs would only fit a 4" tire max and I wanted something good for winter. Congrats!


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Question for Sturgis owners (the most recent version, with Mulefut wheels): any issues with heel rub on the frame/chainstays? Please indicate your shoe size in your reply. Thanks!


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

OhioPT said:


> Question for Sturgis owners (the most recent version, with Mulefut wheels): any issues with heel rub on the frame/chainstays? Please indicate your shoe size in your reply. Thanks!


I run the 17.5" and when I run my winter clipless boots (Shimano MW81) on Time ATAC pedals I do not suffer any strikes with my size 10.5 shoe. When I ride with winter hiking boots (much larger and wider) with Fyxation Mesa MP pedals (great pedals by the way) I occasionally get a heal strike but that is because I move my feet around a lot more. As I've been getting used to flat pedals I get less heal strikes - in fact I don't recall any on this morning's ride.

Considering the width of the cranks and the back wheel I have to say I'm really comfortable with this bike's pedal platform. It has exceeded my expectations.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

OhioPT said:


> Question for Sturgis owners (the most recent version, with Mulefut wheels): any issues with heel rub on the frame/chainstays? Please indicate your shoe size in your reply. Thanks!


I'm 6' w/33" inseam (measured for biking, not pant size), size 11 shoe, and ride a size large. I've used clipless and flats, and have never had an issue with heel rub. That includes being on flats wearing insulated winter boots. I find the bike very comfortable, no issue with the Q angle either.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks for the input so far. I'm asking because it looks like the stock build uses a crankset with a q-factor/spindle for a 170 rear. I know a couple people here have done custom builds with 170 cranks and it seems to work fine, but I've been wondering if heel strikes have been an issue, especially with large feet. I'm using a 190 spaced crankset and the occasional unexpected crank/pedal strike from the width is annoying, but with size 12 shoes I'm not sure if 170 spaced cranks would be doable. At least the 190 width doesnt bother my hips or knees.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I'm 5'11" with a 32" inseam and size 11 shoe. No issues with heel rub on my Lake 303's or summer mountain shoes.


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## bobjsim (Aug 30, 2012)

Thinking of pulling the trigger on the Motobecane 2016 NightTrain Bullet
RockShox Bluto. I'm just worried about sizing. All my life, all my bikes have been medium. 17". Road bikes a 55cm top tube. Measured my old mountain bikes and it's about the same. But looking at the size charts and comments from other buyers, I'm freaking out a little thinking I need a Small frame. I'm just under 5'9" (have shrunk with age). 30" inseam. But my arms have always been longer. I know BikeDirect has a return policy, but I'd like to avoid that if possible. Looking at all kinds of different fat bikes, it seems like the top tubes are stretched out, with a short stem. So is it standover height that should be my main concern?


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## Raq05 (Feb 19, 2016)

I am almost the exact same height and inseam and before purchasing got this reply from BD

"Most riders your size fit 15.5" or 17.5" Sturgis frames. A smaller frame will provide a more aggressive saddle position for more precise handling. A Larger frame will provide a more relaxed saddle position less precise handling and less stand over clearance. Remember that sizing is a personal preference and the choice is ultimately up to the consumer. "

Not sure if that help. I went with a the 17.5.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

There is one key thing to remember when you're comparing your road bikes to a MTB or Fat bike, _the straight bars put you into a position similar to being on the top of a road bar_. Your hands are wider apart, so it's not exactly the same, but you get the point.

Like you, I have long arms and legs for my height, but I'm taller (6', 35" inseam and sleeve length).

I ride road bikes with an effective TT length of 57.5 cm, but my fat bike built on a Nighttrain frame is a Large, with a 59.4cm top tube and it fits fine. I use a stem that's 1cm shorter than on my road bikes (12 vs. 13) plus, on a fat bike, you typically sit more upright, which also makes the TT feel shorter.

One thing I'm starting to experiment with is a more forward position on my off-road bikes in order to get more weight over the front wheel, which improves cornering traction and helps keep the front wheel down while climbing. Those of us with long limbs tend to have this issue because our center of gravity is farther back when we're on the bike, compared to someone with a longer torso and shorter arms. Fortunately, long arms still make it possible to get well back on the bike on steep descents.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

bobjsim said:


> Thinking of pulling the trigger on the Motobecane 2016 NightTrain Bullet
> RockShox Bluto. I'm just worried about sizing. All my life, all my bikes have been medium. 17". Road bikes a 55cm top tube. Measured my old mountain bikes and it's about the same. But looking at the size charts and comments from other buyers, I'm freaking out a little thinking I need a Small frame. I'm just under 5'9" (have shrunk with age). 30" inseam. But my arms have always been longer. I know BikeDirect has a return policy, but I'd like to avoid that if possible. Looking at all kinds of different fat bikes, it seems like the top tubes are stretched out, with a short stem. So is it standover height that should be my main concern?


Hi - You'll love that Motobecane Fat bike. We always sell out before we can get more. Double check your cycling inseam is measured to the ground from the top edge of a book pressed up firmly as if you are being lifted by it. Standing in your riding shoes. Most 5'9" people have at least 32" cycling inseams.

This is a good quote- "A smaller frame will provide a more aggressive saddle position for more precise handling. A Larger frame will provide a more relaxed saddle position less precise handling and less stand over clearance. Remember that sizing is a personal preference and the choice is ultimately up to the consumer. "


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## locoyokel (Mar 9, 2008)

bobjsim said:


> I'm freaking out a little thinking I need a Small frame. I'm just under 5'9" (have shrunk with age). 30" inseam. But my arms have always been longer. I know BikeDirect has a return policy, but I'd like to avoid that if possible. Looking at all kinds of different fat bikes, it seems like the top tubes are stretched out, with a short stem. So is it standover height that should be my main concern?


I'd go with the medium unless you intend to do mostly deep snow riding where falling off the bike (with your foot diving deep into the snow) is common. If that's your plan, then a smaller frame is nice. I have a large Boris Brut Sprung, my friend has an XL NightTrain Bullet, the NightTrain fits me better for dry biking, but he definitely whacks the frame more when bailing in deep snow (he's 6' 4" or so, I'm 6' with 37" inseam). I run the seat post only a half inch below the max (in dry/firm conditions, typically more like 1.5" or more in deep snow). But it's really nice having lots of clearance when you wash out in the snow, plant your foot next to the trail, and plunge into your knee!


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## H2OResQ (Dec 15, 2015)

bobjsim said:


> I'm freaking out a little thinking I need a Small frame. I'm just under 5'9" (have shrunk with age). 30" inseam. But my arms have always been longer. I know BikeDirect has a return policy, but I'd like to avoid that if possible. Looking at all kinds of different fat bikes, it seems like the top tubes are stretched out, with a short stem. So is it standover height that should be my main concern?


I was on the Small/Medium fence for a while before ultimately pulling the trigger on the Small. I'm 5'9" with a 31.5 inseam. The stand over with the bluto fork is just right. I think a medium would have been too high personally. Regarding reach, my thinking is you can always make a small frame longer with a longer stem but difficult to make the medium frame smaller if you find yourself too stretched out. There's a few other posts on this forum from people around our size and height who went with a small and we're happy. Personally, I like being more nimble on the smaller frame. I do feel your pain though..a height of 5'9" with 30-32" inseam could go either way with frame size.


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

bobjsim said:


> Thinking of pulling the trigger on the Motobecane 2016 NightTrain Bullet
> RockShox Bluto. I'm just worried about sizing. All my life, all my bikes have been medium. 17". Road bikes a 55cm top tube. Measured my old mountain bikes and it's about the same. But looking at the size charts and comments from other buyers, I'm freaking out a little thinking I need a Small frame. I'm just under 5'9" (have shrunk with age). 30" inseam. But my arms have always been longer. I know BikeDirect has a return policy, but I'd like to avoid that if possible. Looking at all kinds of different fat bikes, it seems like the top tubes are stretched out, with a short stem. So is it standover height that should be my main concern?


My wife is 5'-7" with a 30" inseam. She rides a medium size Giant Trance 27.5. We ended up getting the small Sturgis and it fits her perfectly.


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## Wyoming Shooter (May 15, 2014)

I am 5'8" with a 30" inseam. I chose the small Sturgis Bullet frame. It fits well. A medium would have been too tall for me.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

I like small frames. Road and cross 50cm. I'm 5'7", and my hardtail 26 is a medium.
The cockpit on the small NTB/Sturgis is very very similar to the cockpit on that bike, so I went small. Definitely wouldn't want it bigger


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Wyoming Shooter said:


> I am 5'8" with a 30" inseam. I chose the small Sturgis Bullet frame. It fits well. A medium would have been too tall for me.


Sounds like Small is the consensus on this one  But your personal prefs, riding style and riding goals for maximum fat bike fun will decide which one you pick


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## Wyoming Shooter (May 15, 2014)

*Sturgis Bullet Small Frame Weight*

My small frame Sturgis Bullet weighs in at 35.32 lbs. The bike is stock except for switching to lighter rim strips and tubes. It's been a trouble-free and fun bike.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

anybody find a source for a rear thru axle... I think this was posted up a while ago. wanted to know if it worked.. Bikeman SRAM Maxle Ultimate Rear MTB, 12x197mm (Length 229mm, Thread Length 20mm, Thread Pitch M12x1.75), Bl


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

Raq05 said:


> I am almost the exact same height and inseam and before purchasing got this reply from BD
> 
> "Most riders your size fit 15.5" or 17.5" Sturgis frames. A smaller frame will provide a more aggressive saddle position for more precise handling. A Larger frame will provide a more relaxed saddle position less precise handling and less stand over clearance. Remember that sizing is a personal preference and the choice is ultimately up to the consumer. "
> 
> Not sure if that help. I went with a the 17.5.


I am in the same size range and went with the 15.5... You are in between, a 16.5 would be perfect. I do not have the Bluto though, and if I am not mistaken, the bluto equipped models do sit a bit higher in the front. If that is the case then I would certainly lean towards the 15.5. But as posted previously, it depends on what type of riding you do.

My sturgis has a DH stem with 780mm bars, platform pedals and a dropper post if that helps describe how I like to ride. Oh and I ride a 54 cm road bike.


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## strengthxcycle (Dec 15, 2012)

I am 5'9" 30 I seem as well and always ride med mobs and 54cm road bikes. I have a med 17" nighttrain and it's a perfect fit. I have the rigid fork and I'm now riding the bluto fork so stand over and everything is good with either fork. I absolutely love my night train!!!



bobjsim said:


> Thinking of pulling the trigger on the Moatobecane 2016 NightTrain Bullet
> RockShox Bluto. I'm just worried about sizing. All my life, all my bikes have been medium. 17". Road bikes a 55cm top tube. Measured my old mountain bikes and it's about the same. But looking at the size charts and comments from other buyers, I'm freaking out a little thinking I need a Small frame. I'm just under 5'9" (have shrunk with age). 30" inseam. But my arms have always been longer. I know BikeDirect has a return policy, but I'd like to avoid that if possible. Looking at all kinds of different fat bikes, it seems like the top tubes are stretched out, with a short stem. So is it standover height that should be my main concern?


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## spartan_msu (May 8, 2008)

Got my first ride in on my 29+ setup last night. It is a night and day difference in terms of speed and handling. I am happy that I decided to go this route rather than get another bike.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

spartan_msu said:


> Got my first ride in on my 29+ setup last night. It is a night and day difference in terms of speed and handling. I am happy that I decided to go this route rather than get another bike.


What wheels are they?


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## spartan_msu (May 8, 2008)

I got them on clearance from RSD. They are Fatlab hubs laced to a 47mm rim (no mfg name given). Only bummer is they will not set up tubeless at all; I tried every trick in the book twice with no luck, the rim appears to be a little undersized in diameter. I was afraid even with tubes the bead would pop off but they rode well last night.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

spartan_msu said:


> Got my first ride in on my 29+ setup last night. It is a night and day difference in terms of speed and handling. I am happy that I decided to go this route rather than get another bike.


3" rear?


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

twright205 said:


> anybody find a source for a rear thru axle... I think this was posted up a while ago. Wanted to know if it worked.. bikeman sram maxle ultimate rear mtb, 12x197mm (length 229mm, thread length 20mm, thread pitch m12x1.75), bl


still in search of anyone think of a solution.....


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

twright205 said:


> still in search of anyone think of a solution.....


Hi - we are working on this and trying to get some extras. They are not cheap but we'll stock some when we find them.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

joebikesdirect said:


> Hi - we are working on this and trying to get some extras. They are not cheap but we'll stock some when we find them.


Joe, appreciate the response, please I hope you get some in soon, having such a proprietary thru axle can be a huge headache. I've been very happy with BDirect so far and my Sturgis, but need to have access to parts, or what good is it.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

hi - these are off the shelf rear axles. They were not proprietary / unique to our frames. They are just not usually available by themselves. Just a matter of locating them


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

joebikesdirect said:


> hi - these are off the shelf rear axles. They were not proprietary / unique to our frames. They are just not usually available by themselves. Just a matter of locating them


my bike mechanic and I have searched the last two days emailed all sorts of folks... seems like the 1.75 thread pitch is the hang up.. most thru axles offered appear to be 1.5...

you are correct, Joebikesdirect... these are "off the shelf" I can not find them anywhere, I hope you guys find a supplier and are able to make them available. thru axles are offered by themselves all the time,


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

I don't believe they're proprietary... according to Robert Axle Project, fat bike thru axles appear to come in a few different thread pitches & lengths:

1.5 mm Thread Pitch and 209 mm (+/- 2mm) Length (fits Salsa Beargrease, Salsa Mukluk and More)
1.5 mm Thread Pitch and 229 (+/- 2mm) Length (fits Borealis, Salsa Blackborrow and More)
1.75 mm Thread Pitch and 209 (+/- 2mm) Length (fits '15 Trek Farley and More)
1.75 mm Thread Pitch and 229 (+/- 2mm) Length (fits 9:Zero:7, Fatback, Norco, Rocky Mtn, Salsa Bucksaw, '16 Trek Farley and More)

The 1.75mm thread pitch x 229mm length was what worked for my Sturgis Bullet.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

cfanto said:


> I don't believe they're proprietary... according to Robert Axle Project, fat bike thru axles appear to come in a few different thread pitches & lengths:
> 
> 1.5 mm Thread Pitch and 209 mm (+/- 2mm) Length (fits Salsa Beargrease, Salsa Mukluk and More)
> 1.5 mm Thread Pitch and 229 (+/- 2mm) Length (fits Borealis, Salsa Blackborrow and More)
> ...


Fantastic! Thanks for the info!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## glockrocket17 (Aug 26, 2015)

My '16 Farley rear axle is a dt swiss for bontrager.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

tonyride1 said:


> I did. Placed the order yesterday. 2 Sun rim strips and a roll of Sun tape.


Finally got around to do the conversion with the Sun Ringle rim strips and tape and they work flawlessly. It costs a little bit more than the gorilla tape method but the hassle free installation is worth it. I wish I had done it this way from the beginning.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Fantastic! Thanks for the info!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


CEO says he has some extra rear thru-axles on order. Will update on ETA


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

joebikesdirect said:


> CEO says he has some extra rear thru-axles on order. Will update on ETA


Glad to hear, will keep watch...

(roberts axle project, apparently out... as well. 6 week wait) no luck at all
:madman:


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## forrestmiller (Jan 6, 2011)

I purchased a Night Train Bullet Ti november 15 2016, After putting aproximately 250 miles on it the rear novetec hub, it shelled on me; specifically the prawls stripped out of the free wheel. Called novetec and they sent me replacement prawls. installed and these last 100 miles. They then asked me to send the rear wheel to them to evaluate the issue. Three weeks later I received a "rebuilt wheel" (hub) New free wheel inner sprocket and all new bearings, 4 miles later - shelled and locked up again. Anyone else having issues with their novetec free wheel hubs assemblies? I am a waiting the next warrenty resolution as I type and also considering buying a Hope fatsno wheel set.


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## forrestmiller (Jan 6, 2011)

One other complaint with my new purchase is the derailer dropouts are like made of glass. The first one broke when the bike just fell over in the lot. The second one (spare that came with purchase) shear off when a small stick snagged the derailer. I understand the intent is to protect the ti frame from getting broken, but this was hardly a mild tap in both cases. To top it off, BD did not have replacement dropouts until late January. I got midevil with the two broken ones in the mean time and was able to drill and tap SS screw and epoxy the two back together enough to ride until the rear hub failed. They now have spares available and I have three! Still running on my patch dropout until hub failed again.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

forrestmiller said:


> Anyone else having issues with their novetec free wheel hubs assemblies? I am a waiting the next warrenty resolution as I type and also considering buying a Hope fatsno wheel set.





forrestmiller said:


> One other complaint with my new purchase is the derailer dropouts are like made of glass.


Yes, these are two points of concern with these bikes- At least the ones that get ridden. But the problems with your rear hub(s) sounds a little extreme. For whatever reason that that is, you might just do well to go with another product (like the Hope set you mention) if you have another one fail.


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## forrestmiller (Jan 6, 2011)

*New wheel set*



AthleticAL said:


> Yes, these are two points of concern with these bikes- At least the ones that get ridden. But the problems with your rear hub(s) sounds a little extreme. For whatever reason that that is, you might just do well to go with another product (like the Hope set you mention) if you have another one fail.


I am talking with Lace Mine 29 - Big Bicycle Wheels about building a custom wheel set. Will let anyone interested know what i find out.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

forrestmiller said:


> I am talking with Lace Mine 29 - Big Bicycle Wheels about building a custom wheel set. Will let anyone interested know what i find out.


If you go back in this thread and/or take a look at the one dedicated to these hubs, you'll get your answer.

Take off the wheel, remove end caps. Tighten the hub pre load things down until they're snug. Use lock tite blue to make sure it stays snug, or recheck and tighten before every ride.

For the other issue. That's called the derailer hanger, not the drop out. They are crap, but I'm pretty sure bikes direct maintains that it's totally normal ::eyeroll::

Get a couple spares for $50 and try to be careful.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Get one and take it to a machine shop to have a proper one made.

Mine hasn't been an issue but I'm going to do that with the spare that came with the bike.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Got 2016 Sturgis,17.5" down to 28.9 lb, I'm $1,550 in and about to call it. Basically carbon fork, tubeless ,1X (aeffect cinch 170) and part bin post/saddle/bar and xtr bb. VP flat or old school xtr and foam grips. Everything else is stock.
Figure 4.0" tires for summer and I'll be around 27.5lb.
Motivation was stupid hike-a-bike bushwhack vert to glory game trails.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Same size at 29.60 with stock 2x.
Changed: carbon fork, cheapo carbon bar, Q-tubes, lighter rim strips, Juggernaut Pro 4.0s (big reduction there) for summer, wellgo MG-5 pedals, ergon GE1 grips.


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## H2OResQ (Dec 15, 2015)

Love this bike. So much fun!


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

dayooper said:


> Same size at 29.60 with stock 2x.
> Changed: carbon fork, cheapo carbon bar, Q-tubes, lighter rim strips, Juggernaut Pro 4.0s (big reduction there) for summer, wellgo MG-5 pedals, ergon GE1 grips.


I would love to hear your feedback on those jugs for the kinds of trails you do.

I'm torn because the tread looks tame as a front... But I'm also not sure how long it will last as a rear.

So as much as I want 850g tires... I'm undecided!


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Turd said:


> Got 2016 Sturgis,17.5" down to 28.9 lb, I'm $1,550 in and about to call it. Basically carbon fork, tubeless ,1X (aeffect cinch 170) and part bin post/saddle/bar and xtr bb. VP flat or old school xtr and foam grips. Everything else is stock.
> Figure 4.0" tires for summer and I'll be around 27.5lb.
> Motivation was stupid hike-a-bike bushwhack vert to glory game trails.


Also thinking of replacing my Sram X5 (1x 10 set-up 30T NW) crankset to either RF Turbine Cinch or RF Aeffect Cinch as this will save me some weight. The 170 OLD RF crank is good enough as i'm running a 1x set-up and no need for a 190 OLD one.


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

H2OResQ said:


> Love this bike. So much fun!
> View attachment 1057474


Looks good! How big jumps are you doing with it? In the pic looks like quite a drop down


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

tfinator said:


> I would love to hear your feedback on those jugs for the kinds of trails you do.
> 
> I'm torn because the tread looks tame as a front... But I'm also not sure how long it will last as a rear.
> 
> So as much as I want 850g tires... I'm undecided!


Will do. Haven't had a chance to ride yet with spring thaw conditions, but hopefully soon (other than pavement...no self steer). I'll most likely still spend most time on the 29er, but definitely wanted to have this as a summer option too. There's not much rocky stuff on the singletrack I typically ride, and I'm not as crazy as I once was, so I think they'll be fine. They're certainly not the biggest knobs, but they're not non-existent either. I've used tires with knobs of similar height on my regular 26er in the past...I assume this will be better due to the sheer size (4.0" casing on SL80s, about 3.6" knob to knob). Will report back in that thread once I've tried.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

dayooper said:


> Will do. Haven't had a chance to ride yet with spring thaw conditions, but hopefully soon (other than pavement...no self steer). I'll most likely still spend most time on the 29er, but definitely wanted to have this as a summer option too. There's not much rocky stuff on the singletrack I typically ride, and I'm not as crazy as I once was, so I think they'll be fine. They're certainly not the biggest knobs, but they're not non-existent either. I've used tires with knobs of similar height on my regular 26er in the past...I assume this will be better due to the sheer size (4.0" casing on SL80s, about 3.6" knob to knob). Will report back in that thread once I've tried.


Awesome thanks.


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

My long time delayed project is getting closer to completion. Hoping to start on the Sturgis build in a week time


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

dariusf said:


> My long time delayed project is getting closer to completion. Hoping to start on the Sturgis build in a week time
> 
> View attachment 1057638
> 
> ...


Cool. While you've got it that stripped down, you'd be very well served to have a good shop chase and face everything. The BD paintjobs tend to fill in everything, and the caliper mounts are nowhere near flat. Looking forward to the build pics. Have fun. Its been a while since I've got to build from frame up. Enjoy it.


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

watermonkey said:


> Cool. While you've got it that stripped down, you'd be very well served to have a good shop chase and face everything. The BD paintjobs tend to fill in everything, and the caliper mounts are nowhere near flat. Looking forward to the build pics. Have fun. Its been a while since I've got to build from frame up. Enjoy it.


Thanks, it was media blasted clean of the original paint, primed and powder coated orange metallic and then clear coat. Pictures do not do it justice. The color shifts very nicely in daylight from almost burned orange to very bright yellow. I will for sure inspect the mount points, thanks for the tip.

This was originally 2016 Sturgis Bullet in gun metal finish. It was a very nice looking paint job but just did not 'pop' for me  The parts back on will be the stock setup minus maybe front derailleur and just 30T or 32T, better grips, carbon handlebars, tubeless conversion of the Mule wheels and Shimano XT brakes and rotors. Also will be getting custom orange labels for Bluto to match


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## H2OResQ (Dec 15, 2015)

dariusf said:


> Looks good! How big jumps are you doing with it? In the pic looks like quite a drop down


It wasn't that big of a jump. Still fun though!


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## strengthxcycle (Dec 15, 2012)

I have had my night train since October and I love it! Just recently changed to a bluto fork since this is now my only/ year round mtb. I'm thinking about buying the 29+ wheelset and tires from bikes direct but can anyone tell me if the rims are just regular 29er rims with a 3" tire, or are they wider rims to accommodate the plus size tires? I would have already ordered a set but I'm curious about the rims. Maybe Bikes direct can chime in. Thanks!









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## josephjosephson (Aug 19, 2015)

I think those are only 25mm rims if I'm not mistaken (WTB TCS Frequency Race i25) which seems a bit skinny for a 3" tire. Proceed with caution and research for minimum width for a plus sized tire. I think 40mm is a bit more realistic. Maybe someone else can chime in.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## strengthxcycle (Dec 15, 2012)

josephjosephson said:


> I think those are only 25mm rims if I'm not mistaken (WTB TCS Frequency Race i25) which seems a bit skinny for a 3" tire. Proceed with caution and research for minimum width for a plus sized tire. I think 40mm is a bit more realistic. Maybe someone else can chime in.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


Ok bummer... That's what I was thinking cause I believe I had the same rims on my cannondale f29 ...thanks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Plenty of folks running + tires on 25mm rims. Just need a bit more air than a wider rim


Pedaling


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

strengthxcycle said:


> I have had my night train since October and I love it! Just recently changed to a bluto fork since this is now my only/ year round mtb.


Looks great, honestly I would never come up with that color schema but seeing the pics it works very well.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Kind of had a raised eyebrow with all the rear hub nut loosening chat, until it looked me in the face and belched. Honestly, I don't understand how its possible, does the quick release not have enough poop? Hell, I've always adjusted cup and cone a hair loose and the qr pre load finishes the job.
How does the axel get longer when it's clamped at both ends?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Turd said:


> Kind of had a raised eyebrow with all the rear hub nut loosening chat, until it looked me in the face and belched. Honestly, I don't understand how its possible, does the quick release not have enough poop? Hell, I've always adjusted cup and cone a hair loose and the qr pre load finishes the job.
> How does the axel get longer when it's clamped at both ends?


I think because of the end caps, these nuts aren't actually secured from both sides when you tighten the TA. So they're able to loosen while riding


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

twright205 said:


> Glad to hear, will keep watch...
> 
> (roberts axle project, apparently out... as well. 6 week wait) no luck at all
> :madman:


Good News -the Motobecane Night Train / Sturgis Fat Bike Thru Axles for ALU and Titanium Fatbikes are Available Now: 
Derailleur Hangers And Thru-Axles for Bicycles, Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, Hybrid, Comfort and More Save Up to 60% Off New Bikes


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

joebikesdirect said:


> Good News -the Motobecane Night Train / Sturgis Fat Bike Thru Axles for ALU and Titanium Fatbikes are Available Now:
> Derailleur Hangers And Thru-Axles for Bicycles, Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, Hybrid, Comfort and More Save Up to 60% Off New Bikes


Yup.... Bikes Direct came through..... just ordered one...


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

tfinator said:


> I think because of the end caps, these nuts aren't actually secured from both sides when you tighten the TA. So they're able to loosen while riding


If you install the TA and allow 1/16" gap (don't crank the QR) you can loosen the nut until it stops on the frame. If one then cranks the QR it's hard to loosen the nut more. Basically the QR locks the nut by squeezing the frame against it. Somthing is happening to allow the nut to loosen, hard to believe it's flex but it might be when riding? Possibly a lock washer or somthing between frame and nut would help? I might blindly be missing somthing but it's hard for me to believe it's the hub design. Shouldn't need thread lock, I don't get it. Possibly the counterbore in the "dropout" for the actual axle is not deep enough and the axle tightens more between the "dropouts" and doesn't allow enough presser on the nut in real world use.
Understand what I'm trying to say?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Turd said:


> If you install the TA and allow 1/16" gap (don't crank the QR) you can loosen the nut until it stops on the frame. If one then cranks the QR it's hard to loosen the nut more. Basically the QR locks the nut by squeezing the frame against it. Somthing is happening to allow the nut to loosen, hard to believe it's flex but it might be when riding? Possibly a lock washer or somthing between frame and nut would help? I might blindly be missing somthing but it's hard for me to believe it's the hub design. Shouldn't need thread lock, I don't get it. Possibly the counterbore in the "dropout" for the actual axle is not deep enough and the axle tightens more between the "dropouts" and doesn't allow enough presser on the nut in real world use.
> Understand what I'm trying to say?


I don't.

The issue appears to be mitigated with thread lock, though.

I just double check before every ride that mine is tight.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

tfinator said:


> I don't.
> 
> The issue appears to be mitigated with thread lock, though.
> 
> I just double check before every ride that mine is tight.


I'll try to supplement with image at some point.
Lock tight is a design bandage imo.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Turd said:


> I'll try to supplement with image at some point.
> Lock tight is a design bandage imo.


I don't disagree, but it does work.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

*Experimenting with camera angles and locations*

Here's a clip of my last ride experimenting with cams.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Took this bike out today. Intended ride was 25 mi and 3500 feet of climbing, but then my buddy convinced me to do some more.

Ended at 53/5300ft. One of the larger days I've done on this bike. Performed great on super chunky downhill with small drops and ruts. There was a lot of fire road though that eventually really started to kick my butt.

Either way, it was a great day of 80 degree sunshine, wildflowers abound, and a nice ocean breeze.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Turd said:


> Got 2016 Sturgis,17.5" down to 28.9 lb, I'm $1,550 in and about to call it. Basically carbon fork, tubeless ,1X (aeffect cinch 170) and part bin post/saddle/bar and xtr bb. VP flat or old school xtr and foam grips. Everything else is stock.
> Figure 4.0" tires for summer and I'll be around 27.5lb.
> Motivation was stupid hike-a-bike bushwhack vert to glory game trails.


$110 for the Juggernaut 4.0" set, down to 26.55lb (with pedals) 
Shamefaced with the $1660 total investment but I believe it is somewhat competitive for the end result of summer fat.


----------



## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

josephjosephson said:


> I think those are only 25mm rims if I'm not mistaken (WTB TCS Frequency Race i25) which seems a bit skinny for a 3" tire. Proceed with caution and research for minimum width for a plus sized tire. I think 40mm is a bit more realistic. Maybe someone else can chime in.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


I went for the 27.5 + wheelset from BikesDirect.. so far no issues, I have had it out 3 times so far with the wheelset.... 
I know the rims are a bit narrow and go against the typical thought, but so far no issues with rolling off the rim. however it is still early in the Season, perhaps once I get it on true Summer conditions, might be more telling. figured for the price can't be beat, even if I end up having the rims rebuilt with something wider. I go 220 lbs. and do my best to keep at least one tire on the ground at all times. so I am not doing jumps or drops...


----------



## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Hey all. 

My kid got hit by a car yesterday on the Sturgis. I was behind him and watched it happen. Lady turned in front of him, she was going slow but knocked him off the bike. Sketchy. Good lesson for him to make sure cars see you even if you have the right of way. 

Front rim is slightly bent and the rotor for sure needs to be replaced. Can anyone tell me what replacement rotor I should get and save me some time reading 3,000 posts? 

Probably buy a new set of rims from BD for $399 and he'll be back riding.


----------



## iCollector (Nov 14, 2012)

Jeff - yikes - glad your son is OK!

As to rotors, I wound up replacing mine with a higher quality job, but if I didn't need the best I'd simply by a mid-range 180mm rotor and be happy. Brakes are SRAM - right - get a 180 SRAM. I don't know if you are looking for anything exotic, so I just offered what I'd do... Good luck. BTW - a great idea on the second wheel set. I have one and its sooooo nice swapping snow/summer sets.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Jeff_G said:


> Hey all.
> 
> My kid got hit by a car yesterday on the Sturgis. I was behind him and watched it happen. Lady turned in front of him, she was going slow but knocked him off the bike. Sketchy. Good lesson for him to make sure cars see you even if you have the right of way.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about what happened to your son but glad to see that he's OK. As for the front wheel and rotor, where are you located? I upgraded my stock wheels to MuleFut so I have a front wheel available. I can throw on a rotor from my parts bin. If you're close enough you can come and get it for cheap if you're interested. Still has the front tire with about 200 miles on it and tube.


----------



## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

^ Nice of you too offer that, Tony

Jeff-

Whoa! That's scary stuff. Too many distracted drivers out there. I SO wish people would stop seeing their vehicles as an office or entertainment spot. You wanna drive, drive. 

/mini-rant over

Hopefully your son is OK?

You have many options for rotors. If your son is relatively light, you can remove the adapter and go smaller. I think lots of folks go with big rotors for no reason (at least for other than a downhill bike). I think I went down to a 160. Cheap, lighter (not that I care, but... bonus!), and less apt to get tweaked/bent.

-Al


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

tonyride1 said:


> Sorry to hear about what happened to your son but glad to see that he's OK. As for the front wheel and rotor, where are you located? I upgraded my stock wheels to MuleFut so I have a front wheel available. I can throw on a rotor from my parts bin. If you're close enough you can come and get it for cheap if you're interested. Still has the front tire with about 200 miles on it and tube.


Not sure what you have available but his bike came with the MuleFut stock so that's what I need. But, I'm near Golden Valley if your in the area.

Thanks.


----------



## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Jeff_G said:


> Not sure what you have available but his bike came with the MuleFut stock so that's what I need. But, I'm near Golden Valley if your in the area.
> 
> Thanks.


The stock ones I got are not MuleFut and we're not even in the same state. Sorry and good luck.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

*65mm wheels, 11-42 cassettes and the stock front derailleur*

So, I put some 65 mm Borealis wheels on for summer fun. Decided to change things around on the drivetrain gearing, and was hoping to go 11/42 Sunrace cassette in the rear, and run a 26/36 double up front. My thoughts were that for most of my trail time, I'd stay in the 26, but not compromise big gears for flat rides and townie runs. The 26 paired with the 11/42 10sp rear is a nice range. However, the stupid direct mount, non adjustable front deraileur will not clear the 26t small ring. Who designs this crap? All I need is 1-2 mm of height adjustment, and I would deal with the crappy up shifting :madman:, but noooo, they've engineered any adjustment out of the damn thing....f#@k you Sram. If I want to clear a 26t, then I need to get a front mech that only works for 26/42...and I don't want a 42.

So, here's what I'm thinking. Ditch the front derailleur and shifter, and manually move the chain up to the big ring for roads and townie runs, and I'm betting I can use my heel to drop the chain down to the 26 when I commit to trails. Neither front rings are narrow/wide rings. How important are they for chain retention? What's the chance of throwing the chain off from the 26t (it can't go up, the 36 is there), and I won't drop it from the 36 when I'm spinning that on flats. I joked about 2x10 dinglespeed in the past - guess I"ll give it a try. Do you think this will work?

FYI - the sunrace 11/42 shifts butter smooth, works seamlessly with the X9 rear, and the 65mm rims are super fun.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

1-2 mm? Hmmmm. Custom alteration with your Dremel??

Would possibly leave the derailleur cage flimsy but maybe not...

Since the front drlr is supposedly "dead" I've noticed prices on them falling. I just snapped one up. Long live the FD!

Bonus for you if you go for the alteration and it fails is that a new drlr is reasonable.

Maybe somebody else has a better idea. Best o'luck


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Ride report - first ride sans front derailleur w/double chainrings 26/36, neither nw or stopdrop. Worked perfectly. Stopped for the road session home from the trails, yanked the chain onto the big ring, and away I went. Easy peasy. Dropped half a pound over stock. 
The ride home would've sucked spinning a 26 up front, but it didn't. Very happy with this. Monkey likey. I gotta admit, it was really nice not messing with a front derailleur on this ride.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

I'm confused. Did the switch to the 11/42 cassette bring about the clearance problem? I believe I'm running 26/36 turbine on my Sturgis, with stock front and rear derailleurs and cassette.


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

*Tire/Wheel Combos*

Almost sure I seen this answered here before, but I'm wondering does it work to run a Panaracer FatBNimble 29x3 on the MuleFut 80mm rims?

Looking for a more efficient summer riding/gravel road tire combination, and am considering these three options...

1) FatBNimble on the original MuleFut 80 mm rims
2) Cheap set of BikesDirect 29er rim package deal and just run typical 29x2.3 etc., tire
3) Custom 35-50mm wheels for ~3" tire...but that'll get expensive....150/197mm hubs, rims, spokes, lacing, etc., etc....

If I could come up with a viable solution I'd probably sell my Salsa Fargo.


----------



## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

*Night Train initial assembly tips, tricks, and advisories*

This is my first post, so _greetings everyone_!

Yesterday, after mining the veins of valuable information in this thread that intersperse The Hanger Issue (TM), I pulled the trigger on a Night Train from BD. Color me purple. I am very excited.

I live at the beach in northern Oregon and intend to ride my new steed on packed and soft sand (but will attempt to avoid salt-water immersion), and on gravel logging roads. Snow is not on the menu.

I am not an expert at working on bikes, but I have a nice set of Park Tools, a PT stand, and a modest amount of experience at wrenching on a half dozen bikes over the years. Plus, I am good at reading up, and following directions from others who know more.

Here is my question:

When it comes time to assemble my Night Train, what are your tips for getting off to a good start? That is, are there any little "extras" to attend to?

For example, I seem to recall -- though it's all a blur after wading through thousands of posts -- that some people take the time to repack all bearings with extra grease. (Did I get that correct? Does the manufacturer skimp?)

And would marine grease, or some other genuinely waterproof (vs water resistant) grease, be advisable, or just stick with PT grease? (I hope I don't open a can of worms here.)

Also, was there some tightening issue with the rear hub that I should attend to?

Anything else that comes to mind?

Again, given that I will be riding in a rather corrosive environment, I want to get off to the best start possible. Any and all input will be most welcomed 

Thanks for your help!

P.S.: What extra tools do I need that are NT specific? For example, assuming that the bike shows up with the Race Face BB, do I need this proprietary tool in my box?

Amazon.com : RaceFace Next SL Wrench Crank Tool for BSA30 : Bike Hand Tools : Sports & Outdoors


----------



## lalahg (Nov 9, 2015)

Cycloid said:


> This is my first post, so _greetings everyone_!
> 
> Yesterday, after mining the veins of valuable information in this thread that intersperse The Hanger Issue (TM), I pulled the trigger on a Night Train from BD. Color me purple. I am very excited.
> 
> ...


You may want to get the brake bleed kit, my bike had a few bubbles in the rear circuit.


----------



## makdaddy (Feb 11, 2016)

BB/Crankset question 

I was cleaning the drivetrain on my Sturgis Bullet this weekend and noticed a slight "tick" or "hitch" in the crankset/bottom bracket area, noticeable when starting out with load on the crank. I did not touch the bottom bracket when I received the bike in Oct and have about 300 mi on it. BB has never been submerged in water or anything like that.

Any advice? I have never messed with bottom brackets before.


----------



## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

ETChipotle said:


> I'm confused. Did the switch to the 11/42 cassette bring about the clearance problem? I believe I'm running 26/36 turbine on my Sturgis, with stock front and rear derailleurs and cassette.


Stock on these is 22/36 front rings - the rear 10 speed cassette has nothing to do with the clearance issue on the front rings. I put a 26t small ring on the front, kept the 36. The front derailleur cannot clear the teeth on the 26 when you go to upshift to the 36t front ring. News to me, but these low direct mount front derailleurs have very specific tooth count restrictions.


----------



## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

NDTransplant said:


> Almost sure I seen this answered here before, but I'm wondering does it work to run a Panaracer FatBNimble 29x3 on the MuleFut 80mm rims?
> 
> Looking for a more efficient summer riding/gravel road tire combination, and am considering these three options...
> 
> ...


^^^This sounds confusing.

29x3 tires go on 29" rims. Say 29 (or 700C)x45mm.

Does the Mulefut come in 29"x80mm? I thought they were 26"x80mm on the bike.

Rim wider than tire?
Sounds bad.

-F


----------



## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Cycloid said:


> This is my first post, so _greetings everyone_!
> 
> Yesterday, after mining the veins of valuable information in this thread that intersperse The Hanger Issue (TM), I pulled the trigger on a Night Train from BD. Color me purple. I am very excited.
> 
> ...


Welcome!
You are in for some fun riding.
I've mentioned a few times about protecting your bearings. I have submerged my hubs and crank on my Sturgis Bullet on numerous occasions. The bottom bracket was the first to go. I was able to save it and it is still doing fine since the Winter.
Hubs were next. That was more preventive, but I was chasing that loose nut on the rear axle.

"Repack" might be excessive if you're not submerging it, but if you apply enough marine grease to the seals and the external parts to keep out the water they should last a lot longer.

I did the lower headset bearing first thing when I assembled it. Just more grease in that area to leave less room for water and dirt. Wipe off the excess.

For me, I also checked spoke tension and trueness.

-F


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

The MuleFut that come on the Sturgis/NT are 26"x80mm. Not 29".


----------



## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

_



"Repack" might be excessive if you're not submerging it, but if you apply enough marine grease to the seals and the external parts to keep out the water they should last a lot longer.

Click to expand...

_Fleas, I hadn't even thought of that -- _external _grease. Am I reading you correctly?

Won't that be a sand-magnet here at the beach?


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

So I put in an order for a purple NT over the weekend. By mid-Monday I got an email from BD with a tracking number that indicates UPS picked it up and it will be here on the northern Oregon coast by Friday. I'm impressed!

The UPS page says the package weighs 30.00 lbs. I had to smile at the two decimal places.


----------



## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Cycloid said:


> Fleas, I hadn't even thought of that -- _external _grease. Am I reading you correctly?
> 
> Won't that be a sand-magnet here at the beach?


It's not like you'll never have to clean it out, but it will last pretty long just with hosing off the sand and salt. Just keep it neat and it won't pick up more sand than you can hose off when you get home. In my experience, the grease might grab some dirt and sand, but it is external to the bearing. If _water_ goes in, it can carry the dirt/sand in with it. A small amount of external grease should prevent that for a long time. The bearings themselves also have light seals on them.

-F


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Thanks Fleas. That sounds like a good plan.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Fleas, is this the proper bottom bracket tool for the Night Train's bb? The spec sheet says "Race Face BB - 100mm -- BSA"

oops ... forgot to add the link ...

Amazon.com : RaceFace Next SL Wrench Crank Tool for BSA30 : Bike Hand Tools : Sports & Outdoors


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> Stock on these is 22/36 front rings - the rear 10 speed cassette has nothing to do with the clearance issue on the front rings. I put a 26t small ring on the front, kept the 36. The front derailleur cannot clear the teeth on the 26 when you go to upshift to the 36t front ring. News to me, but these low direct mount front derailleurs have very specific tooth count restrictions.


I mis-remembered, I have 24/36 on there, not 26/36


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

Fleas said:


> ^^^This sounds confusing.
> 
> 29x3 tires go on 29" rims. Say 29 (or 700C)x45mm.
> 
> ...





tonyride1 said:


> The MuleFut that come on the Sturgis/NT are 26"x80mm. Not 29".


Yup yup you're right guys----I had my numbers goofed up.

_29_ x 3 would require completely different rim.

I think there have been a few that have ran 26 x 3 Fat B Nimbles on the 80mm MuleFits...doesn't sound ideal to me, though.

Sorry for the confusion! :madman:


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Cycloid said:


> Fleas, is this the proper bottom bracket tool for the Night Train's bb? The spec sheet says "Race Face BB - 100mm -- BSA"
> 
> oops ... forgot to add the link ...
> 
> Amazon.com : RaceFace Next SL Wrench Crank Tool for BSA30 : Bike Hand Tools : Sports & Outdoors


Nope, that's the wrong one. I know because I ordered it and it didn't fit. I just added it to my bike tool collection rather than return it.

i believe this is the correct one.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Thanks Dilligaff! I sincerely appreciate your helping me avoid making the same mistake.

And yay, I already have that tool.


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## 19Delta (Apr 13, 2016)

*Hello fat tire noob here...*

Hello and thank you for such an outstanding resource to the customer looking to get a fat tire bike!
My GF has a Pugs and after riding it I was sold on the fatty scene.
My journey to buying a Motobecane Sturgis Bullet was a long and twisted path. Started off wanting a Gravity Bullseye Monster LTD, then after reading and research, moved up to the Motobecane Boris X9, which turned into wanting the Lurch, and my brain started "rationalizing" getting a Bluto, and the price just kept going up. Especially since BD switched to the MuleFut rims, through axles, and RF cranks...I finally HAD to draw the line at the MSB!!!
I have only done a couple short rides at a couple local parks with my Vizsla (all I do now is mention "BIKE" and he goes into spaz mode!) I am falling in love all over again with this biking thing.
That's about it for now, thank you all for all of the information and knowledge that is posted here.

Cheers,
19 Delta
-Tim-


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Sure that isn't a Dusk Train?

;-)


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## tankhead10 (Dec 6, 2014)

Hey Dilligaf

I bought this Park Tool BBT-29 Bottom Bracket Tool from amazon for my Specialized AWOL will it work on our BB's?


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Thinking about saving some precious weight by going with q-tubes SLs?

Cliff's Notes-
Don't

Go tubeless or real tubes. I'm pushing this baby home. Again. Because q-tubes are ginormously oversized to the wheel. I dunno, maybe 24" are better. But this is the second time that I've had one of these fold back onto itself and fail.

I recall maybe tfinator or watermonkey bringing this up once. I thought he (whoever it was) was mistaken. I no longer think that ...


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Standard-









Q-tube (so-called 26")









Let there be no doubt. When inflated to approximately 7 psi, the stretch continues. Note 27" ID-


----------



## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

AthleticAL said:


> Standard-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can make most tubes stretch to much, much larger than their prescribed size. Really, all of them.

The light tube is lighter because it's got less material. So it stretches at a lower psi.

They're meant to be captive inside of a tire.


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## H2OResQ (Dec 15, 2015)

What are these "tube" things you all speak of? Go tubeless and don't look back!


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

AthleticAL said:


> Thinking about saving some precious weight by going with q-tubes SLs?
> 
> Cliff's Notes-
> Don't
> ...


I'm picking up what you're putting down. When I tried to run QT SL's 2.8 x3.25s' (or whatever size they were), they never filled the gap around the valve core and always left a hump/depression in that spot. So, to get around that, folks said to inflate them out of the tire to let them over expand, thus getting rid of this narrow section. However, when you do this, they over inflate, stretch out too far, and fill the tire like crap with folds in places. I never got them to work on 80mm rims with 4.0 or larger width tires. On 65mm rims, I can just get them to work with the normal V snowshoes or something with a similar casing size IF I'm running dirt psi's - doesn't work for low snow psi's. I'll carry these as a spare tube if my tubeless fails (big a$$ nails have been finding me lately), so I'll limp home on these and run them around town until I get around to setting up tubeless again. They fail and split along seams in fairly short order for me.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Yah, I'm done with them. The problem, like you say, is that they don't fill up the tire properly. They stretch, but not uniformly. It's gimmicky and will inevitably lead to problems.

Those who disbelieve, no sweat- 
Have fun


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

AthleticAL said:


> Thinking about saving some precious weight by going with q-tubes SLs?
> 
> Cliff's Notes-
> Don't
> ...


OK, so here's my experience. Your mileage may vary but when I tried to go tubeless with my MuleFut wheel set the "cheap and easy" way it didn't work for me. I tried the Gorilla tape method as well. Didn't work. So I ended the BS and just ordered the SunRingle tubeless kit for both wheels and they worked the first time. So just avoid any potential hassles and just get the kit. I got them off Amazon. One roll of Sun Ringle 78mm rim tape ($27.25) and 2 Sun Ringle Rim Strip, 26x60mm ($9.10 each). Make sure you have enough Stans. You'll need about 16oz for each tire.


----------



## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

The idea that these tubes are too big of a diameter and it's some sort of manufacturing/design flaw is incorrect.

The idea that we're taking small tubes and using them in an application they weren't meant for, so they sometimes don't work, is correct.

That's the head and tail of it.


----------



## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

AthleticAL said:


> Thinking about saving some precious weight by going with q-tubes SLs?
> 
> Cliff's Notes-
> Don't
> ...


I will say it can be a little fidgety, but they worked OK for me. I think I partially inflated them to give them some shape, installed them in the tire, then inflated to ~20psi to get the tire seated, then backed it off to ~10psi. Downside was that I pinch flatted the rear twice even at 9psi. Now I'm tubeless, which, on the Weinmann HL80 rims is also fidgety. New buyers need not worry about that since you get MuleFuts.

-F


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Or, in other words, don't use them in a 4.5" wide tire and expect them to hold up. Because they do not expand the way a real fat tire tube does- uniformly.

Instead, they expand radially until they can no longer do so by confinement of the tire. And only then do they eventually fill out the width- but often imperfectly and being prone to issues- including folding back onto themselves like I've had 2 do now. That is exactly what happened twice. The flaw is so bad that no amount of talc will solve it.

Did I get a bad batch, twice? I doubt it.

For narrower tires, less likely to have this problem. For 4.5 and fatter tires, these tubes are for sh-t


----------



## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

AthleticAL said:


> Or, in other words, don't use them in a 4.5" wide tire and expect them to hold up. Because they do not expand the way a real fat tire tube does- uniformly.
> 
> Instead, they expand radially until they can no longer do so by confinement of the tire. And only then do they eventually fill out the width- but often imperfectly and being prone to issues- including folding back onto themselves like I've had 2 do now. That is exactly what happened twice. The flaw is so bad that no amount of talc will solve it.
> 
> ...


If you're this surprised I'm thinking you've never pumped up a 700x18-23c tube. Those things could go on a 36er.

There's nothing wrong with the tubes, but they're not made to fit in such a big tire.

Tubes made for bigger tires will do the exact same thing, but they are thicker so they take a lot more air to do it.


----------



## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

I had no problem with the q-tubes and XLs this winter, but if I did, I wouldn't blame it on the tubes! Unless they actively promote them as being suitable for such big tires? That'd be strange since they say 2.3-2.7, but I guess stranger things have happened. Similarly, no problems now with them and the Juggernaut Pro 4.0s. Maybe I've gotten lucky so far.


----------



## 19Delta (Apr 13, 2016)

*First single track adventure*

FINALLY! had an opportunity to run some trails with the MSB, awesome! I hit the local trails at Elm Creek in Maple Grove, MN. Bike ran awesome. I felt planted and in control running the "intermediate" loop there. The Bluto performed brilliantly, keeping the front end planted and the bike did everything that I asked of it.
I was on the fence between a (M) and a (L) frame, at 6' - decided to go with the (M) and it felt wickedly wonderful. If you are in the middle range of 2 sizes, try out some comparable fatties at a LBS, I did that with the Specialized family and was much more happy with the smaller frame feeling, on the trails for me the smaller size made it much more throw-able. 
Met some locals at a water stop, started talking up fatties, they were all on full sprung 29ers. One of the guys asked if my frame was carbon fiber? I said no, just aluminum, he came up for a closer look and was in awe of the welds and frame construction.
I was able to sort of keep up with the group, but I definitely need to get into better riding shape. These old legs were feeling the burn.
Anyway, great bike - THANKS BD! and a great day to ride.

Cheers,
Tim


----------



## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Hey Tim, welcome!

Now that Spring has--

Finally!

sprung 'round here (S metro here), the dirt beckons.

Enjoy your new bike! You will be amazed at what you can conquer.

Recently I went down and criss-crossed a local creek to my heart's content. I had to service the pedals to empty out the water and decontaminate the grease!


----------



## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

*How much Stans per fat tire?*



tonyride1 said:


> OK, so here's my experience. Your mileage may vary but when I tried to go tubeless with my MuleFut wheel set the "cheap and easy" way it didn't work for me. I tried the Gorilla tape method as well. Didn't work. So I ended the BS and just ordered the SunRingle tubeless kit for both wheels and they worked the first time. So just avoid any potential hassles and just get the kit. I got them off Amazon. One roll of Sun Ringle 78mm rim tape ($27.25) and 2 Sun Ringle Rim Strip, 26x60mm ($9.10 each). Make sure you have enough Stans. You'll need about 16oz for each tire.


Wow, 16oz for _each_ tire?

I will be going the Sun Ringle tubeless route in a week or two so I am interested in this. The videos I have watched on the subject have all recommended 8oz of Stans for a fat tire. How did you arrive at 16oz?


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

I ordered a 2016 Night Train, L, purple.

Someone here signed with UPS before I could check the box. BD sent a 2015!

_Boooooo!_

The 2016 is $400 more, because of the Mulefut rims, and better bb and cranks. A 2015 is NOT acceptable.

I was so looking forward to riding my new bike tomorrow. I am pretty irritated at such a ridiculous mistake.


----------



## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

They'll take care of you I would think, but you'll probably have to send it back unless they give you an allowance to buy new wheelset and crank, I don't remember what other differences there are.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Check the bike inside, my box said 2015 but the bike was a 2016.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Dilligaff, you are a genius.

I just checked. There is a 2016 sitting inside a 2015 box. 

Wow, that's pretty customer unfriendly. You know, I was going to look inside yesterday, but short-circuited myself because I thought it would be too absurd for them to do that. But I was wrong!

Yesterday I was really bummed because when I looked on BD's site again, the bike I wanted was out of stock, so I was thinking, "Damn, now I'm going to get the run around."

So thanks again for your help


----------



## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Good thing you weren't there to sign for it, or you might've sent it back! 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Cycloid said:


> Wow, 16oz for _each_ tire?
> 
> I will be going the Sun Ringle tubeless route in a week or two so I am interested in this. The videos I have watched on the subject have all recommended 8oz of Stans for a fat tire. How did you arrive at 16oz?


I may have been mistaken. I think it is 8oz per wheel, 16oz total.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

dayooper said:


> Good thing you weren't there to sign for it, or you might've sent it back!


I think there is a high chance I would have. That would have been an bummer.

Anyway, all the parts were in the box and well packed, so I am happy (and relieved).

BTW, there some parts that I am not clear on the function.

-- 2 thin silver washers or spacers
-- 2 black washers or spacers or bushings

Can anyone tell me what those are for? Thanks.


----------



## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Cycloid said:


> I think there is a high chance I would have. That would have been an bummer.
> 
> Anyway, all the parts were in the box and well packed, so I am happy (and relieved).
> 
> ...


Don't know about the silver washer or spacers but the black ones could be for your wheel hubs.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Shoot some pictures of the spare parts?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Pedal washers (silver), back up front hub end caps (not spacers) - or not backup front hub end caps if you didn't put them on the front hub before mounting in the fork. I think my 2015 race face/mulefut came with backups, early 2015 samox/weinmann model didn't.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

*Unidentified 2016 Night Train parts*

Here are the parts I am not sure about. (Ignore the sand.)









Watermoney, your thoughts? I didn't quite understand your comment: "back up front hub end caps (not spacers) - or not backup front hub end caps if you didn't put them on the front hub before mounting in the fork"

Do the black pieces go on the front axle between the hub and the forks? And if so, does the narrower side face the fork, or the hub?


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

Cycloid said:


> Here are the parts I am not sure about. (Ignore the sand.)
> 
> View attachment 1064432
> 
> ...


Yes, the black ones go on the front hub. One on each side between the hub and fork legs.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

The silver washers are definitely for pedals. The black ones are for the front hub if they're not already there. If there's already a set on the hub then you have extras or spares. The wide side snaps on to the hub and the narrow side to the fork so they go between the hub and the fork. The OD of the narrow side is the same as the ID of the wide side so essentially the mating sizes remain the same, just makes the hub wider.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

NDTransplant said:


> Almost sure I seen this answered here before, but I'm wondering does it work to run a Panaracer FatBNimble 29x3 on the MuleFut 80mm rims?


Considering that a 3" tire is 76.2mm wide, putting them on 80mm rims would create a situation where the tire is narrower than the rim, which is probably not a good idea. Also, you'll be lowering the entire bike 1/2" (assuming that you're running 4" tires now), which is likely to cause clearance problems when riding, pedal strikes, in particular.

You're best bet is to get some 29+ wheels and 3" tires for them. Keep the 4"+ tires on the MuleFut rims. That's the way 29+ and 26" fat are supposed to interchange.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Cycloid said:


> I live at the beach in northern Oregon and intend to ride my new steed on packed and soft sand (but will attempt to avoid salt-water immersion), and on gravel logging roads. Snow is not on the menu.
> 
> And would marine grease, or some other genuinely waterproof (vs water resistant) grease, be advisable, or just stick with PT grease? (I hope I don't open a can of worms here.)
> 
> Again, given that I will be riding in a rather corrosive environment, I want to get off to the best start possible. Any and all input will be most welcomed


I ride mine on the beaches of Cape Cod, so I'm familiar with the related issues. I also ride it in the snow, but that's less of an issue because snow is typically pretty clean.

By all means, try to avoid salt water immersion, but you're bound to encounter some water and mud, which is going to get everywhere. As a precaution, I sealed all of the vent holes in the frame tubes to prevent salt water intrusion which could corrode the tubing over time.

I use waterproof "boat trailer bearing" grease in the bearings on all of my bikes (BB, hubs, headset and pedals) and I definitely recommend it on a beach bike. Make sure the bearings are fully packed to the point that excess squirts out during reassembly. I'm not familiar with the stock parts (I built mine from a frameset), but you can often put grease between seals and washers or end caps on BBs and hubs, as was suggested previously. Preventing water from getting in is paramount to making the bearings last.

The biggest maintenance item is the drivetrain. You'll need to clean it thoroughly after every ride to remove the salt and sand that will quickly corrode and wear out everything if not removed. Salt washes away easily, but sand will tend to stick. The heavy, oily factory lube on the new chain will attract sand like a magnet, so your best bet is probably to strip the factory lube, then use something light and relatively dry, like Pro-Link or a similar product that doesn't attract dirt. I typically rinse and re-lube my chain after every beach ride; it's a hassle, but it's something you have to do if you want the drivetrain to last. For the record, I don't do this with my road, 'cross or mountain bikes, unless I've been riding through rain and/or mud. Salt water beach riding is a different animal that requires extra precautions.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Mtb_1 and Tonyride1, thank you for clarifying. That's very helpful.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

I have another Night Train question.

I have never had internal cable routing before, and was a bit surprised at the size of the upper openings on the frame. I live on the northern Oregon coast so I do a lot of riding in the rain. I would have to think that some water dribbles down the cable into the frame. Does this affect the bottom bracket? Are there any prophylactic steps to take (you know, like put a giant condom over my bike)? But seriously, does the Race Face bb have a plastic protective sleeve? And whether it does or doesn't, is there any advantage to applying marine grease on the bb, and if so, where?


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Bnystrom said:


> I ride mine on the beaches of Cape Cod, so I'm familiar with the related issues. I also ride it in the snow, but that's less of an issue because snow is typically pretty clean.
> 
> By all means, try to avoid salt water immersion, but you're bound to encounter some water and mud, which is going to get everywhere. As a precaution, I sealed all of the vent holes in the frame tubes to prevent salt water intrusion which could corrode the tubing over time.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great recommendations. I just picked up a tube of Johnson-Evinrude marine grease a couple of days ago and will follow your suggestions. (On a marine grease thread, a guy who had decades of experience in marine equipment said that the JE grease is the way to go.)

As for the drive train I will be using the technique I have used for eons: a good old bath of paraffin wax. I know that civil wars can start over this subject, but I like the technique and have used it since about 1975. But now I am going to experiment by adding a bit of molybdenum and teflon. As to your suggestion to clean the chain every time, no problemo ... I do that every time after a wet ride anyway, which is basically every ride in these parts. Funny, I really don't find it a hassle at all. In fact, I actually delight at the process, and love having a clean, easy to handle drive train.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Cycloid said:


> I have another Night Train question.
> 
> I have never had internal cable routing before, and was a bit surprised at the size of the upper openings on the frame...


I like clear silicone. Cheap. Easy. Works. Easily removable.

And I use semi-clear (mostly transparent) weatherseal tape from Home Depot to keep the water out of the holes in those little strengthening tubes on the chainstays and seatstays. Look carefully and you'll see, I can't get a pic right now. The tape works well, I do a single wrap.


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

Bnystrom said:


> Considering that a 3" tire is 76.2mm wide, putting them on 80mm rims would create a situation where the tire is narrower than the rim, which is probably not a good idea. Also, you'll be lowering the entire bike 1/2" (assuming that you're running 4" tires now), which is likely to cause clearance problems when riding, pedal strikes, in particular.
> 
> You're best bet is to get some 29+ wheels and 3" tires for them. Keep the 4"+ tires on the MuleFut rims. That's the way 29+ and 26" fat are supposed to interchange.


Sounds like the most sense. Thanks!


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

You can also get 27+ wheels for your Sturgis.


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## oreosinmysalsa (Feb 24, 2016)

Just bought the last 21" green Sturgis.... sorry guys!
now... what goodies do I want to upgrade. 
I like the concept of a 1x10 grip shift with an oval chain ring. thoughts? I am not a mtn rider. This is going to be my family rider and I have to take it on a 150mi event ride in June as a dare. Obliviously ill want road tires. I am also thinking of getting a carbon fork.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

*Servicing Novatec hubs*

Rookie question here.

I have a Night Train with Novatec hubs and I want pack the bearings with marine grease. I have the front wheel in hand, (too) easily popped off the two black endcaps, but don't know how to get the next black covers (or whatever they are called) off?

Could someone kindly tell me how to get the black covers off? And is there anything I need to know about getting the bearings out. Any help here would be most appreciated. Thanks!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Cycloid said:


> Rookie question here.
> 
> I have a Night Train with Novatec hubs and I want pack the bearings with marine grease. I have the front wheel in hand, (too) easily popped off the two black endcaps, but don't know how to get the next black covers (or whatever they are called) off?
> 
> Could someone kindly tell me how to get the black covers off? And is there anything I need to know about getting the bearings out. Any help here would be most appreciated. Thanks!


If you are down to the bearings, which I believe you are, a sharp pick will pop out the plastic covers. You don't even really need to push the bearings out.

-F


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

*Servicing Novatec hubs > how to get black covers off*

F, thanks for the suggestion about the bearings. Good to know.

However, I am not to the bearings yet. I am not sure how to get these black covers off.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

oreosinmysalsa said:


> Just bought the last 21" green Sturgis.... sorry guys! now... what goodies do I want to upgrade. I like the concept of a 1x10 grip shift with an oval chain ring. thoughts? I am not a mtn rider. This is going to be my family rider and I have to take it on a 150mi event ride in June as a dare. Obliviously ill want road tires. I am also thinking of getting a carbon fork.


 While a 1x10 sounds good in concept, I tried it a few years back and ended up reinstalling the front derailleur and double ring. Depending on the terrain you ride in, to get a decently wide gear range, you end up with large gaps between gears. That's not typically objectionable for off-road use, but it can be really annoying on the road. However, that's largely a personal preference. An oval chainring will work, but they still seem like a gimmick to me. Some riders rave about them, but the overwhelming majority of us do just fine with round rings. Still, if you want shell out the money for one on a whim, who am I to tell you not to? The carbon fork is nice and much lighter than the Bluto. After riding it, I don't see any point in suspension on this bike. I'm going to sell the unused Bluto that came with my frameset, but I keep forgetting to do so. I'm curious as to why you would buy a fat bike if you don't ride off-road? It's obviously not the best choice for road riding and it's not well-configured for it from the factory. It's heavy, bulky and I find the wide Q-factor to be really uncomfortable for anything other than off-road riding, where I'm constantly in and out of the saddle. On long stints of flat, seated riding, it bothers my hips. If you didn't want a road bike, a mountain bike would probably have been a better choice for a dual-purpose rig.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

oreosinmysalsa said:


> Just bought the last 21" green Sturgis.... sorry guys!
> now... what goodies do I want to upgrade.
> I like the concept of a 1x10 grip shift with an oval chain ring. thoughts? I am not a mtn rider. This is going to be my family rider and I have to take it on a 150mi event ride in June as a dare. Obliviously ill want road tires. I am also thinking of getting a carbon fork.


I second the getting a carbon fork. I got one from Carbon Cycles on eBay for $200 and love it. Totally changes the bike- so much better with the carbon than Bluto, IMHO. I'm probably going to sell the Bluto as well- I wasn't that impressed with it, and I'll also just ride my FS trail bike when there isn't snow. If you get the Carbon Cycles fork make sure you also order the thru axle, as the Bluto's won't work with it.

I haven't done the 1x ever, was thinking about it, then decided that it is a waste of time and money to fix something that works fine in the first place.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Cycloid said:


> F, thanks for the suggestion about the bearings. Good to know.
> 
> However, I am not to the bearings yet. I am not sure how to get these black covers off.
> 
> View attachment 1064918


Anyone? Pretty please? How do I get at the sealed bearings in the Night Train's Novatec D201SB/D202SB hubs?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Use the thru axle end to gently pry them off or tape up the end of some pliers, grab and pull - they're just held on with an o-ring. People have had a hard time getting them to stay ON in the past. Once you get to the bearing, you'll need a puller to pull them if you don't want to mess them up - I've never been a fan of pounding them out with a drift.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

*Night Train servicing tools*




> Use the thru axle end to gently pry them off or tape up the end of some pliers, grab and pull - they're just held on with an o-ring. People have had a hard time getting them to stay ON in the past. Once you get to the bearing, you'll need a puller to pull them if you don't want to mess them up - I've never been a fan of pounding them out with a drift.


Thanks Watermonkey. I appreciate it.

As to the bearing puller, do you have a recommendation? I have a touring bike with Ultegra hubs, a 2013 Rockhopper, and now my new Night Train with Novatec hubs. Are bearing pullers bearing-specific, or is there one (or a set) that would be good for my toolbox? I plan to service all of my bikes here soon as soon as I get my ducks in a row.

While we are on this subject, do I need any special tools to get at the Night Train's Race Face Type-X bottom bracket bearings. I already have a Park Tools BBT-9, and a BBT-19 + torque wrench. Do I need a bearing puller for the bb?

Thank you.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Once you have access to the bearings, you can use a pick or the tip of a knife blade to carefully pry out the seal from the* outer *edge. If you try to pry it out from the center, you'll damage the seal. Once the seal is off, you have full access to the bearings.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Thanks Bnystrom. I appreciate it. After I posted my question about the bearing puller I remembered that Fleas suggested the same approach. Certainly easier, and since there is nothing wrong with the new bearings, this seems like the most intelligent way to go. And thanks for the heads up about prying off the seal from the outer edge. That would not have been obvious to me.


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## oreosinmysalsa (Feb 24, 2016)

Bnystrom said:


> While a 1x10 sounds good in concept, I tried it a few years back and ended up reinstalling the front derailleur and double ring. Depending on the terrain you ride in, to get a decently wide gear range, you end up with large gaps between gears. That's not typically objectionable for off-road use, but it can be really annoying on the road. However, that's largely a personal preference. An oval chainring will work, but they still seem like a gimmick to me. Some riders rave about them, but the overwhelming majority of us do just fine with round rings. Still, if you want shell out the money for one on a whim, who am I to tell you not to? The carbon fork is nice and much lighter than the Bluto. After riding it, I don't see any point in suspension on this bike. I'm going to sell the unused Bluto that came with my frameset, but I keep forgetting to do so. I'm curious as to why you would buy a fat bike if you don't ride off-road? It's obviously not the best choice for road riding and it's not well-configured for it from the factory. It's heavy, bulky and I find the wide Q-factor to be really uncomfortable for anything other than off-road riding, where I'm constantly in and out of the saddle. On long stints of flat, seated riding, it bothers my hips. If you didn't want a road bike, a mountain bike would probably have been a better choice for a dual-purpose rig.


So getting a fat bike has been a year long deal/bet/dare. I ride in the MN MS150 every year. Ive been trying to get my brother to participate. He made the deal that if I do it on a fat bike he will ride... so here I am. 
the plus side is I can pull the kiddo trailer (im concerned that my full carbon rd bike isnt designed to be stress in that direction.) also my wife inst a hard rider having a fat bike should make our rides more enjoyable.

oreos


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## oreosinmysalsa (Feb 24, 2016)

My sturgis is supposed to arrive tomorrow afternoon!


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

May it keep you slow, fat, and happy


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

So today I pulled the seals off of my Night Train's Novatec hub bearings (both front and rear) to clean and repack with Johnson-Evinrude Marine Grease, given that I will be doing a lot of riding on the beach.

Three of the bearings seemed to be greased okay, but one was pretty skimpy, so it was nice to tend to that.

But reassembling the rear hub brought up a question. I'm used to cup and cone setups with locknuts and all that. I have never had a through-axle with one of those endcap thingys on the non-drive side.

So, my question: what's the proper way to tighten this assembly when there is no lock nut? Do I just use two 17mm flat wrenches on each side and tighten toward each other until there is no axial wiggle of the freehub (and assume the compression from the quick release keeps it all in place)?

Any input would be appreciated.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

oreosinmysalsa said:


> So getting a fat bike has been a year long deal/bet/dare. I ride in the MN MS150 every year. Ive been trying to get my brother to participate. He made the deal that if I do it on a fat bike he will ride... so here I am.
> the plus side is I can pull the kiddo trailer (I'm concerned that my full carbon rd bike isnt designed to be stress in that direction.) also my wife inst a hard rider having a fat bike should make our rides more enjoyable.
> 
> oreos


That sounds awesome. As soon as my son was old enough I bought a Burley D'Lite trailer to take him along with me when we do the 5 Boro Bike Tour through NYC. Although he loved being pulled around in parks and around town we never got a chance to do the 5 BBT with him. Have fun and good luck.


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

I've got a Sturgis Bullet that's maybe a 15 or 14 model. It came with the Gold colored Weinmann rim on the Novatec 190 hub with 2x 3.5mm spacers to fit the 197 rear. 
I just got a couple Alex Blizzer 90 Tubeless rims and plan to order spokes and re-lace (I can tell the rim ERD is way different and the old spokes won't work). Does anybody know if the frame has an offset to consider when running a spoke calculator? I'll be running Bud/Lou and don't want to risk goofing up and putting the tire into the chain, as I'm running 2X in the front (and have no intention of going 1X).
This will be my first fat wheel build, but all I've got in the calculator now is:
ERD, Hub diameter, Hub Center to left/right flange. I think that's all I need...

Next after this I'm going to see if there's any way to lower the Q factor without replacing the Samox crank - tried a SRAM X5 but put the chain straight into the tire.

Thanks!


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

ztbishop said:


> I've got a Sturgis Bullet that's maybe a 15 or 14 model. It came with the Gold colored Weinmann rim on the Novatec 190 hub with 2x 3.5mm spacers to fit the 197 rear.
> I just got a couple Alex Blizzer 90 Tubeless rims and plan to order spokes and re-lace (I can tell the rim ERD is way different and the old spokes won't work). Does anybody know if the frame has an offset to consider when running a spoke calculator? I'll be running Bud/Lou and don't want to risk goofing up and putting the tire into the chain, as I'm running 2X in the front (and have no intention of going 1X).
> This will be my first fat wheel build, but all I've got in the calculator now is:
> ERD, Hub diameter, Hub Center to left/right flange. I think that's all I need...
> ...


I tried the X5 crankset too, no chance. I don't think you'll ever be able to clear the tire in the back, run a 2X and narrow the Q. I will try later to take measurements between my 1st Generation Sturgis Bullet w/samox and 3rd gen Night Train Bullet w/race face turbine (also 2x) and see if the Q is different.

I bought a Borealis 65mm wheelset for my NTB, they work fine, not built with any offset (that I'm aware of).


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

Cycloid said:


> I have another Night Train question.
> 
> I have never had internal cable routing before, and was a bit surprised at the size of the upper openings on the frame. I live on the northern Oregon coast so I do a lot of riding in the rain. I would have to think that some water dribbles down the cable into the frame. Does this affect the bottom bracket?


------
I drill a small hole at the lowest point of the BB shell in all my bikes...suppose I should maybe stick some tape over it and pull it off after it rains. I'm not saying you should do it, but that's what I did. :-D I wish there were a way to do that to my double wall rims.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Last night I sealed the internal routing holes with silicon. I am surprised at the size of those lower holes; riding in wet conditions with the front wheel blasting water at them seems like a rather poor design. I would have been perfectly happy with external routing, but hey, the silicon should do the trick.

Thanks to those who suggested silicon as a solution.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

twright205 said:


> I went for the 27.5 + wheelset from BikesDirect.. so far no issues, I have had it out 3 times so far with the wheelset....
> I know the rims are a bit narrow and go against the typical thought, but so far no issues with rolling off the rim. however it is still early in the Season, perhaps once I get it on true Summer conditions, might be more telling. figured for the price can't be beat, even if I end up having the rims rebuilt with something wider. I go 220 lbs. and do my best to keep at least one tire on the ground at all times. so I am not doing jumps or drops...


now has been several weeks with this 27.5 wheelset and the plus size tires... Have to say they are exceeding my expectations. I have not gone tubeless with them yet, but am very pleased with them.... if you are thinking of snagging another wheelset, think long and hard, you can't beat that price point.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

What 25.7+ tires are you using and are they tubeless ready?


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

*Can I add a reflective tape mod to my tubeless setup?*



joebikesdirect said:


> AFAIK only ascarlarkinyar has had issues setting up his Mulefut rims. However, he is not using SunRingle kit. I invite him to post his exact setup methods with pics as I am sure we forum members can help troubleshoot what the exact issues are.
> 
> He did have issues breaking the bead. It is well known all tubeless fatbike tires are pretty tight on the bead. I have used three tire levers however, the best method I have seen is to use motorcycle tire levers.
> 
> Per SunRingle: Mulefut rims should be used with the SunRingle rim strips and tubeless tape and kit for best results. SunRingle says Stans sealant is ok too. Some people have posted good results with shrink wrap or zipsystem stretch tape? Stretch Tape | Huber Engineered Woods


I have everything I need to go tubeless with Mulefuts, Snowshoes, Sun Ringle rim strip, Sun Ringle tape, and Orange sealant.

But I wanted to first lay down a strip of Reflexite tape to show through the cutouts (and then put down the rim strip and cover with tape.

Does anyone think the single wrap of Reflexite tape will screw up the whole Sun Ringle system which seems to work so well? I wouldn't think so, but does anyone else have any input from experience?


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Cycloid said:


> I have everything I need to go tubeless with Mulefuts, Snowshoes, Sun Ringle rim strip, Sun Ringle tape, and Orange sealant.
> 
> But I wanted to first lay down a strip of Reflexite tape to show through the cutouts (and then put down the rim strip and cover with tape.
> 
> Does anyone think the single wrap of Reflexite tape will screw up the whole Sun Ringle system which seems to work so well? I wouldn't think so, but does anyone else have any input from experience?


On my Mulefuts I used TapeCase 2" width x 5yd length (1 roll), Converted from 3M 3432 Red Reflective Tape. I skipped the SunRingle rip stip as the reflective tape acts as the rim strip. I did a single wrap of the reflective tape with an overlap at the valve hole. I used just a little bit of tape to keep the wrap tight. I then put on a single wrap of of the SunRingle tape. Before I did all this I cleaned the inside of the rim with rubbing alcohol. I then, before adding sealant, inflated the wheel with a tube and left it overnight. This step presses the tape nice and tight to the rim and flattens the wrinkles. I put in Stans for sealant and I've never had an issue. I shed 3/4 lb per wheel.!!

It looks good!


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

TheNormsk,

Thanks for your input. Wow, I don't know how I missed the reflective tape you suggest. That's 1/3 of the price! 

I have a couple of questions ...

1) Did you just leave the paper backing on the reflective tape?

2) Does the Sun Ringle tape, when pressed down, only go to the tops of the bevels (i.e., slanted faces), or does it extend to the side walls of the rim and cover the small holes in the little depressed bead seats?


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Cycloid said:


> 1) Did you just leave the paper backing on the reflective tape?


Honestly I don't remember. I believe I left the paper on.



Cycloid said:


> 2) Does the Sun Ringle tape, when pressed down, only go to the tops of the bevels (i.e., slanted faces), or does it extend to the side walls of the rim and cover the small holes in the little depressed bead seats?


It goes to the side wall and covers the holes. This is the advantage with the official SunRingle tape is that it is cut to the right size for the Mulefut 80mm rims. All other tape comes up a few mm short.


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

That tape looks curiously similar to the FS Bling strip.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

The Normsk, thank you. That's very helpful. Now I can proceed with confidence.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

I left the backing paper on my 3m tape on. I figured if I ever need to remove the Sun tubeless tape I might be able to peel it off the back of the 3m tape if the backing was on.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

tonyride1 said:


> What 25.7+ tires are you using and are they tubeless ready?











don't know if BD still has them, but I think it was like $299 for the set.

claim tubeless ready....


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

twright205 said:


> View attachment 1067054
> 
> 
> don't know if BD still has them, but I think it was like $299 for the set.
> ...


Oh, OK. I thought you bought only the tires, not a set. Looks like Vee Tire?


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

May I ask you guys to those who has already replaced the stock headset of their Night Train or Sturgis - may I know what equivalent Chris King or Hope headset did you use? I am planning to replace my stock black headset to blue.

Thanks for your reply.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Post deleted. Problem solved.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

not near my bike, hopefully someone can let me know... I want to go from current 160 rotors to 180's... got the originial sturgis bullet tecktro brakes on it. any links or info on what caliper adapters I need..


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

twright205 said:


> not near my bike, hopefully someone can let me know... I want to go from current 160 rotors to 180's... got the originial sturgis bullet tecktro brakes on it. any links or info on what caliper adapters I need..


Both of my sturgis/night train models came stock with 180mm rotors, not 160's, are you sure they're 160's? I had run a 203 on the front with the Bluto, and the braking was nice, but it flexed the holy bejezus out of the Bluto when I'd hit the front brakes hard - so went back to 180.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

twright205 said:


> not near my bike, hopefully someone can let me know... I want to go from current 160 rotors to 180's... got the originial sturgis bullet tecktro brakes on it. any links or info on what caliper adapters I need..





watermonkey said:


> Both of my sturgis/night train models came stock with 180mm rotors, not 160's, are you sure they're 160's? I had run a 203 on the front with the Bluto, and the braking was nice, but it flexed the holy bejezus out of the Bluto when I'd hit the front brakes hard - so went back to 180.


I was just coming on here to comment on how well my Tektro 180s worked this past weekend. I hadn't had to use them at such high speed before so I was tentative until the first time I really needed them and they were awesome. I don't see any need to change them.
I'm 185# + 60oz. of water and some tools and a spare fat tube. I could really feel the brakes hauling me down fast, and no fade on the extended runs.

-F


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

snagged the frame and had it built up... I am guessing that the stock comes with the adapters....guess, I ought to take another look see.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

OK, narrow minded me, forgot about the framesets. I'll try to get the adapter info tonight for the 180's - you running a bluto?


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

Hey guys, quick question.
I blew up my hub this weekend, and I know its fairly common with these novatec ones that they ship with. I emailed BD and they are offering to sell me a steel one for $30.
Is this standard protocol? and does the steel FHB fix the issue, or will it fail again in 150 miles like the first one did? i thought the steel freehub was to prevent the cassette from biting into the carrier, i cant imagine the pawls would be made of a different stronger material.
and I cant help but feel like they should warranty it. I dont think that a full failure in 150 miles is acceptable, but if they are charging everybody than i would rather just get rolling again.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

^ If it's just the free hub body that went bad, and all else is good with the hub, that *should* take care of your issue. Steel is tougher. Not just outside but also inside, where it carries the load and wear of the pawls.

Also be mindful of the cap on the disc side... Lest your hub be one to fail because of that issue.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

AthleticAL said:


> ^ If it's just the free hub body that went bad, and all else is good with the hub, that *should* take care of your issue. Steel is tougher. Not just outside but also inside, where it carries the load and wear of the pawls.
> 
> Also be mindful of the cap on the disc side... Lest your hub be one to fail because of that issue.


What is the cap problem and how do i identify it? 
I havent kept up with this thread very well, can somebody give me the crash course on this hub?
I will clean all the grease out and take a closer look at the drive ring, but it looked pretty bad the other day. full of metal bits and whatnot as you would expect.

Thanks guys


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

The end cap is the piece that keeps the whole assembly together under proper tension. Most of the failures-- I think-- are related to the cap loosening. When that happens, there'll be a side-to-side play. The pawls don't tolerate lateral play very well (because they're not designed for this type of load) and, in time... Snap! Crackle! Pop! Rice Crispies hub.

Tighten it; use Loc tite. Some say blue. I don't disagree, but I used red. And six months later, I took the cap back off. No sweat. In any case loc-tite is a good idea unless if you want to constantly check for that dreaded lateral play (will result in a clunk as you shift the bike side to side)

All that said, I've got a Mk 1 Sturgis (with the Weinmann wheels). Between not liking these wheels and not liking these hubs, I've got a new DT Swiss wheelset coming.

Good luck, Dirtdawg. If you stay on top of those hubs, they should be ok. Paying due attention to them is the key.


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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

AthleticAL said:


> The end cap is the piece that keeps the whole assembly together under proper tension. Most of the failures-- I think-- are related to the cap loosening. When that happens, there'll be a side-to-side play. The pawls don't tolerate lateral play very well (because they're not designed for this type of load) and, in time... Snap! Crackle! Pop! Rice Crispies hub.
> 
> Tighten it; use Loc tite. Some say blue. I don't disagree, but I used red. And six months later, I took the cap back off. No sweat. In any case loc-tite is a good idea unless if you want to constantly check for that dreaded lateral play (will result in a clunk as you shift the bike side to side)
> 
> ...


Just this. You're bike (mine too) was affordable relative to the competition, and these hubs will be fine if you tend to them, but they aren't Kings. They can't be ignored. Once you start hearing the popping and tinging it's probably too late. Get those pawls out of there asap!!

If you stay on top of this hub by keeping it well oiled and tight it will last. I pull it all apart ever 8-10 rides and re-oil everything. I use motor oil, which allows the pawls to move to engagement easier. I fear grease will gum up and restrict the pawls movement and enhance scoring by keeping them from snapping into place as quickly as they need to. Probably have 1,000 miles on the rear with no issues.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

Thanks everyone! 
I will loctite the axle next time. I don't think it was loose, but anything I can do to avoid another walk home is good. 
I cleaned it up a bit and after 10 minutes of pulling out chunks of the pawls it looks like the drive ring is salvageable. 









I guess it's worth getting the new freehub body. Have people gotten these replaced by the company or did you pay for It?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Bikes direct has been all over the place with this hub issue. Some people got the steel freehubs for free, I bought 2 since it was such a pain to get my hands on one, and then after I bought mine, someone on here posted that BD sent them an entire wheel - with a snowshoe tire on it no less, for free. You can count on BD to be consistently inconsistent on this crap. IF you're willing to chase it down, you can replace the ratchet rings as well with a specific tool. I deformed the aluminum freehub body on my lurch, as in, it wasn't even f'n round anymore. The steel ones do make a difference. I used to do a some regular PSA's on here reminding people to check the non-drive side end cap regularly, as in before every ride. Loctite and due diligence are your friends with these.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

New freehub on the way. 
Thanks everyone.


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

I realize this is lazy but it's a 148 page thread for crying out loud. 

My kid got hit by a car on his Sturgis. $300 in damage but I fixed most of it for about $50. 

If you had a stock, rigid, converted to tubeless already Sturgis what would you spend $300 on? Carbon fork? Lighter, faster tires? 

What say you?


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

Jeff_G said:


> I realize this is lazy but it's a 148 page thread for crying out loud.
> 
> My kid got hit by a car on his Sturgis. $300 in damage but I fixed most of it for about $50.
> 
> ...


Jeff, hope your kid is ok!!
I'd go with tires. Currently loving the delicate kenda juggernauts, even with a repaired sidewall from a pinch on ride two :-/ They are super fast rolling.
I like them better on 65mm rims for more rim lip protection but they were ok on mulefuts as well.

EDIT: Those are 4.0" Kenda Juggernaut Pros I'm running. I've also been using floaters, dillinger 4s, and bud/lou


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

My 9 year old is on a boris. I thought about going carbon fork for him, but that's lipstick on a pig. Dead weight is less of an issue than rotational weight. I'd get light tires and go fatty strippers tubeless (unless you're on weinmans - don't trust those tubeless).


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

He's ok. A good wake up call for him to make sure he has the right of way AND the driver of the car sees him before crossing the intersection. 

The bike is 7 pounds heavier than my Farley but it really feels heavy. A lack of skill, strength and bike weight is making it hard for him to pull the front end in technical terrain which is why I thought about the carbon fork. 

Fattystrippers are installed and it was a very noticeable change in the bike. Was thinking a whole spare wheelset from BD. But then I'd have two sets of crappy tires. 

If I bought tires I could stud the snowshoes for winter and use something zippier for summer.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Jeff_G said:


> He's ok. A good wake up call for him to make sure he has the right of way AND the driver of the car sees him before crossing the intersection.
> 
> The bike is 7 pounds heavier than my Farley but it really feels heavy. A lack of skill, strength and bike weight is making it hard for him to pull the front end in technical terrain which is why I thought about the carbon fork.
> 
> ...


Tough call because I think the young 'uns can probably benefit from a light weight front end more and generally have greater capacity to soak up bumps (maybe?) than us non-young 'uns....

But tires still win, if it comes down to it. I just splurged on some myself- embarassingly, 3 pairs. Don't ask me no questions, and I won't tell you no lies. But I've got Specialized Fast Trak 4.0s. Likely to be fast but not the lightest. Limited availability (got mine from Erik's). Kenda Juggernaut Pro 4.5s. As yet, untested but might be best suited for winter. Lastly (just came today), Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 4.0s. Light. Could be a great 3-season tire. I'll post more after I've tried them.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

I noticed the tire change more than the carbon fork.
(4.0" Kenda Juggernaut Pros replaced stock snowshoe and Whatever The BD carbon fork is replaced the OEM fork) 

I think you could do both for around $310-350. BD carbon fork is $249.95 and a set of Juggernaut Pros are $110. I paid $359.95 for the fork and tires, was lazy and afraid about saving $50 on the fork search.


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Turd said:


> I noticed the tire change more than the carbon fork.
> (4.0" Kenda Juggernaut Pros replaced stock snowshoe and Whatever The BD carbon fork is replaced the OEM fork)
> 
> I think you could do both for around $310-350. BD carbon fork is $249.95 and a set of Juggernaut Pros are $110. I paid $359.95 for the fork and tires, was lazy and afraid about saving $50 on the fork search.


I would love to do both. How are the Juggernaut Pros size wise compared to the stock tires?


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Fast and light, less self-steer. I did not do the whole caliper thing but about .5” narrower.
Ride feels like a more rounded profile on the 80mm rims. (Less knobs) 
I’ll put the snowshoes back on in winter for float and traction I guess.


17" 2016 Sturgis sits at 26.55lb and the fork/tires/seat post was the best bang for buck to trim fat


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Turd said:


> Fast and light, less self-steer. I did not do the whole caliper thing but about .5" narrower.
> Ride feels like a more rounded profile on the 80mm rims. (Less knobs)
> I'll put the snowshoes back on in winter for float and traction I guess.
> 
> 17" 2016 Sturgis sits at 26.55lb and the fork/tires/seat post was the best bang for buck to trim fat


Wow. That's light.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Only carbon part is the fork. Basically the other stuff was just lighter used part bin bar/post/seat, tubeless and 1x. Personalty I think 2X is the way to go but I got sucked in to the BS.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

*Diameter of the rear axle? 12mm or 10mm*

I have a quick question here at work. What is the diameter of the rear axle that comes with the Sturgis/Night Train? I'm at work and my bike is at home so I can't measure it. Was wondering if anyone knows the answer off the top of their head? Is it 12mm or 10mm or something else? Thanks.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Jeff_G said:


> I would love to do both. How are the Juggernaut Pros size wise compared to the stock tires?


Casing width is the same, 4.0". Outter lug to outter lug is smaller, only about 3.6" on the Juggernaut Pro 4.0.


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

tonyride1 said:


> I have a quick question here at work. What is the diameter of the rear axle that comes with the Sturgis/Night Train? I'm at work and my bike is at home so I can't measure it. Was wondering if anyone knows the answer off the top of their head? Is it 12mm or 10mm or something else? Thanks.


12mm x 197


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)




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## myette10 (Oct 17, 2005)

dirtdawg21892 said:


>


#clappedout

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Going to pull the trigger on the carbon fork and the 4.0 Juggs. 

Can anyone tell me which hanger I need to order for the Sturgis? He bent the stock one and the bike shop barely moved it before it snapped. Put the new one that came with bike on it but I think a spare is a wise move. 

Going to grip stud the stock tires for winter.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Jeff_G said:


> Going to pull the trigger on the carbon fork and the 4.0 Juggs.
> 
> Can anyone tell me which hanger I need to order for the Sturgis? He bent the stock one and the bike shop barely moved it before it snapped. Put the new one that came with bike on it but I think a spare is a wise move.
> 
> Going to grip stud the stock tires for winter.


http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/parts/der_hangers.htm

You'll need #28 if the bike is the initial design frame (let's call it Mk 1) or #31 if the newer (Mk 2). Distinguish easily by the number of screw holes on the edge (1 vs 2).

Good upgrades! Where'd you find them?


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

AthleticAL said:


> Derailleur Hangers And Thru-Axles for Bicycles, Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, Hybrid, Comfort and More Save Up to 60% Off New Bikes
> 
> You'll need #28 if the bike is the initial design frame (let's call it Mk 1) or #31 if the newer (Mk 2). Distinguish easily by the number of screw holes on the edge (1 vs 2).
> 
> Good upgrades! Where'd you find them?


Thanks for the info.

Bikebling had the Jugg Pro 4.0 for $55 per and free shipping. Stupid cheap in my opinion.

I am going to buy the BD carbon fork unless someone has a better suggestion.


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Jeff_G said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Bikebling had the Jugg Pro 4.0 for $55 per and free shipping. Stupid cheap in my opinion.
> 
> I am going to buy the BD carbon fork unless someone has a better suggestion.


No worries. Good weather for bike wrenching (read that as lotsa rain for you non-MN folks)

Glad to see fat tire prices coming down into more reasonable territory. I recently bought some of the bigger 4.5" Juggernaut Pros on eBay. Big and bad, but not really light like the 4" so they might be best-suited for winter... or mud if it keeps raining so much that I have to seek out unofficial trails

Happy wrenchin'/ridin'!


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

AthleticAL said:


> No worries. Good weather for bike wrenching (read that as lotsa rain for you non-MN folks)
> 
> Glad to see fat tire prices coming down into more reasonable territory. I recently bought some of the bigger 4.5" Juggernaut Pros on eBay. Big and bad, but not really light like the 4" so they might be best-suited for winter... or mud if it keeps raining so much that I have to seek out unofficial trails
> 
> Happy wrenchin'/ridin'!


Where in MN do you primarily ride?

Fork and hangar ordered......


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## AthleticAL (Feb 9, 2015)

Jeff_G said:


> Where in MN do you primarily ride?
> 
> Fork and hangar ordered......


Some River Bottoms, some Lebanon Hills, a rare visit to Murphy-Hanrehan and Carver. A lot of my off-road rides are "off the map" or unofficial routes that I piece together, usually involving a stretch or segment down by Mississippi, since that's pretty convenient to me here in S. Mpls / E side of L. Nokomis.

In the winter, I piece it all together from home since driving somewhere only wastes my time and really doesn't offer much better adventures


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

I mostly ride Theo and also pieced together about 12 miles of "off the map". Pretty amazing to be able to ride this much single track through the woods etc since I'm 2 miles from Downtown Minneapolis.


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## Johannas1969 (May 12, 2016)

Hey there!
I recently purchase the Night Train mainly for snow riding and commuting/touring.

My question is: 
Has anyone installed a front rack on theirs, and which one did you go with?
I bought the Surly front rack (got it for a good price) and it seems a bit narrow for the Kinesis front fork...


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

This fatty lost some weight!
Cheap way to go tubless and lose some weight:

I was running the '15 Sturgis Bullet with the Gold Weinmann HL80 rims. I wanted to go tubeless but these rims have such a narrow shelf and no bead hook that it wasn't worth the risk to me. With a Thudbuster LT suspension seatpost and Bluto (& heavy tubes) I was tipping the scale at 37.5lbs.

I re-laced the wheels as follows:
Kept the original NovaTec hubs (which aren't that light but seem to work just fine after I put blue loctite on the rear sidecap.

-Replaced the rims with Alex Blizzerk 90 Tubeless Ready rims. $100 a piece - had to call a few LBS to find one that would order them for me as not many sites carry them.
-Ordered 269mm Sapim double butted race spokes from Dan's Comp...$40 there.
I should have gone with 268 tops. If you upgrade the spoke nipples to 14mm, you'll need to go shorter on the spokes as I ran out of thread with longer spoke nipples.
As the hubs are symmetrical I simply tensioned each spoke little by little and kept them even with a tensiometer. Once I hit 100kg per spoke they were already true other than a small hop at the rim seam (don't notice while riding).
I used red duck tape as a rim strip with packing tape to keep it from buldging. Threw some orange seal fat tubeless tape over it...probably could have gone Gorilla. 
My Bud / Lou pumped up with a hand pump on these rims, tubeless. There is a line to lock the beads in place similar to WTB rims. Put 3 oz of orange seal in each tire (should do more but ran out)

Bike now weighs in at 33.5 lbs. My mind was somewhat blown.
Sorry if the pic is disorienting...it was taken upside-down.

**EDIT**
I think the hanging fishing scale I purchased changes from day to day. I added 3 more oz of orange seal to each wheel and it just weighed in at 35.5 lbs.
...so I'm going to say it was somewhere between a 2.5lb reduction :-/
Cheap electronics.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

ztbishop said:


> This fatty lost some weight!
> Cheap way to go tubless and lose some weight:
> 
> I was running the '15 Sturgis Bullet with the Gold Weinmann HL80 rims. I wanted to go tubeless but these rims have such a narrow shelf and no bead hook that it wasn't worth the risk to me. With a Thudbuster LT suspension seatpost and Bluto (& heavy tubes) I was tipping the scale at 37.5lbs.
> ...


Wow. 4 lbs. at the wheels. Awesome


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Just got the Juggernauts and Fork.
So I did try to search just so the MTBR vigilantes don't yell about searching. 

Stock 16 Sturgis rigid to Carbon fork. Any pro tips on doing the install? Never pulled a fork off before. 

I will post some weights after I do the swap but man are those tires light. And the fork feels like a feather.


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## dayooper (Nov 21, 2015)

Jeff_G said:


> Just got the Juggernauts and Fork.
> So I did try to search just so the MTBR vigilantes don't yell about searching.
> 
> Stock 16 Sturgis rigid to Carbon fork. Any pro tips on doing the install? Never pulled a fork off before.
> ...


I used a piece of PVC pipe to seat the crown race...worked great. Think it was 2" diameter that fit perfectly. You also should get a compressor style top cap to replace the star nut (if you didn't already), as you should not use the star-type in carbon (could break the carbon under force). I got one by FSA.

EDIT: 1.5" dia pvc


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Hi Jeff_G - you PMd me to respond to your questions but it seems most have been answered 
When you install your fork, please make sure you use the right tools on the carbon fork as they're easier to damage than metal forks.
There are ways to do it without the proper tools but none that I can officially suggest.
youtube has plenty of videos...
please email about any questions that have not been answered for you
send email to [email protected]

Happy Riding 
Joe


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## jlieu (May 23, 2016)

Hi all,

Will the rear drop-outs accommodate the type of couplers required for kids trailers (such as InStep and Schwinn strollers)?

It looks something like this:








If not, will one of the Robert Axle thru-axle be suitable to make it work?

Thank you!


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

jlieu said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Will the rear drop-outs accommodate the type of couplers required for kids trailers (such as InStep and Schwinn strollers)?
> 
> ...


We need the Robert Axle, as our rear axle cannot fit through that bracket.



It isn't expensive at $65 each.


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

I am stuck. 

I purchased a Cane Creek 1 1/8 compression top cap. Cut the carbon fork approximately 1/16" longer than the stock fork. I cannot get the headset to tighten up. 

I have never done this before but I have mechanical skills and it's got me stumped. 

Any thoughts? 

BTW, the bike is under 30 pounds now!


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

If I understand you, adding a few spacers under your stem should do the trick as long as the compression plug is grabbing hold. If the compression plug is not grabbing the inside of the steerer tube, try a bit of carbon friction paste on the inner surface of the steerer tube. Also, pre-adjust the compression plug so it's just able to fit into the steerer tube.



Jeff_G said:


> I am stuck.
> 
> I purchased a Cane Creek 1 1/8 compression top cap. Cut the carbon fork approximately 1/16" longer than the stock fork. I cannot get the headset to tighten up.
> 
> ...


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

joebikesdirect said:


> If I understand you, adding a few spacers under your stem should do the trick as long as the compression plug is grabbing hold. If the compression plug is not grabbing the inside of the steerer tube, try a bit of carbon friction paste on the inner surface of the steerer tube. Also, pre-adjust the compression plug so it's just able to fit into the steerer tube.


I thought the steerer tube was supposed to be slightly above the stem? If I add a spacer it will not be.

The plug is definitely grabbing the carbon. The bolt is tightening and pulling but it feels like it won't get any tighter, and the headset is still loose.

I will try to pre-adjust the compression plug, I definitely did not do that.

Thanks.


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

BTW, I bought a 1 1/8 copper coupler for plumbing that fit tightly over the tube and was able to make a very straight cut with a hacksaw.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Top of stem clamp should be slightly above the steerer tube about 2mm or so.



Jeff_G said:


> I thought the steerer tube was supposed to be slightly above the stem? If I add a spacer it will not be.
> 
> The plug is definitely grabbing the carbon. The bolt is tightening and pulling but it feels like it won't get any tighter, and the headset is still loose.
> 
> ...


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Jeff_G said:


> BTW, I bought a 1 1/8 copper coupler for plumbing that fit tightly over the tube and was able to make a very straight cut with a hacksaw.


FYI - this is an AWESOME "hack" !!


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## josephjosephson (Aug 19, 2015)

Had a similar problem on my bike. I built it from the ground up and got stumped with what I thought would be an easy task - tightening the top cap. The headset would stay lose no matter what I did. I paid a mechanic $20 to fix it and saved my frame. He ended up moving one of my spacers above the stem. Maybe that helped. Worth a try.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

*Stem length question for Night Train (non-bluto), frame size LARGE*

Hi everyone,

I have a Night Train, non-bluto, frame size LARGE.

I was tightening the stem and I stripped one of the bolts. My mistake -- I thought it tightened to 7N but it calls for only 5-6N. Didn't have my glasses with me :-|

I assume the safest thing to do is replace the stem (right?).

I'm a bit confused about stem length.

The spec sheet at bikesdirect says that the LARGE has a 110mm stem.

The stem I have says E 80mm, 7 degrees

I assume E stands for extension, and that does agree with measurement.

1) Can anyone explain the discrepancy between the spec sheet and what's on my bike? Am I looking at all this properly?

2) Can anyone recommend a replacement stem? This is not something I know much about.

Thanks in advance.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> Hey, 3rd time's the charm. Now I'm ready for anything!
> View attachment 994748
> 
> 
> ...





Fleas said:


> Amazingly, even with several branches and junk going directly into the cage of my rear drlr - to where I had to stop pedaling, get off, and untangle - the orig. hanger has barely bent at all. I mean, it over-shifted my low gear, but the indexing was not off - so, a very small bend. I did not try to straighten it. Just using as-is.
> 
> -F





Fleas said:


> My original hanger finally bent. I think it was already tweaked, but yesterday in the dark I knocked my leaning bike over on the drive side moving a tree off the trail and it really bent it. I could not shift lower than 4th cog.
> 
> Anticipating that it would break if I bent it back I just rode it the way it was.
> 
> ...





Fleas said:


> I took an off trail excursion and picked up a ~4' branch in my rear drlr. The point of the stick was in the drlr, but the chain was not jammed. The hanger did not bend or break.
> Granted, it was pushing straight back instead of sideways.
> (I still want my free one, though!)
> 
> -F





Fleas said:


> I posted this pic elsewhere, but I just realized... My derailleur hanger did NOT bend! :lol:
> 
> -F


OK - I FINALLY got too big of a branch in the rear derailleur and bent the hanger. It was still working and shifting OK, but the chain was running really crooked. I figured the hanger was done this time and I was right. I put the bender on it. Barely moved it, and it just fell off.

So now I'm on my spare and I ordered another one. $20 derailleur hangers should be made of gold, though. They're worth about $5.

-F


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## EBG 18T (Dec 31, 2005)

Fleas - you might want to check with wheels manufacturing to see if they offer a BD hanger alternative.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Hangers should be a customer service item. Get a clue and sell them to cover cost. They should not be a "lollipop", ink cartridge bend over ankle grab thing unless you are giving the bike away to profit off hangers.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

If BD is paying more then $.50 - $2.5 ea. Then they are getting screwed.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

EBG 18T said:


> Fleas - you might want to check with wheels manufacturing to see if they offer a BD hanger alternative.


BD must have them locked up good. I checked Wheels Mfg., and 3 other places... nothing. Of course they're all $20+ >:^(
...they're not even titanium.
...and it's for a thru-axle - frame damage is very UNlikely.
I'm going to invent a break-away hanger that just snaps back together.

-F


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*Repairing stripped threads*

Your stem may not be dead. As long as there is a good amount of material around the screw hole, it can be repaired by installing a Helicoil. Your local shop may offer this service. If not, you can purchase a kit and do it yourself. I keep kits around in common bike sizes, as you never know when you're going to need one.

...and no, I don't strip screws often (I can't remember the last time I did), but I hate being inconvenienced or not being able to ride due to something so simple.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Fleas said:


> BD must have them locked up good. I checked Wheels Mfg., and 3 other places... nothing. Of course they're all $20+ >:^(
> ...they're not even titanium.
> ...and it's for a thru-axle - frame damage is very UNlikely.
> I'm going to invent a break-away hanger that just snaps back together.
> -F


There *is* a machined hanger available for Motobecane fat bikes. It's made by Pilo Precision Machining in Israel, model number D547.

















They aren't cheap, but they should be much more durable than the stock hangers. I haven't found a US dealer, but I've contacted them to see if there is one. I'll post my findings here.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

I hope that hanger isn't stronger than the frame. If so then that defeats the purpose.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*Seriously?!*



tonyride1 said:


> I hope that hanger isn't stronger than the frame. If so then that defeats the purpose.


Take a look at your frame, then take a look at the hanger; which one do _you _think is stronger? I've tried aligning the dropouts on my frame and it's so stiff that it's not even worth attempting.

The hanger is made by a company who's _business _is making derailleur hangers (and other cycling products). I'll take their word for it that they know what they're doing, but you can check their website for yourself.


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## Leisureclass (Dec 9, 2015)

Hangers 48 Yuro!!! Geez!


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Leisureclass said:


> Hangers 48 Yuro!!! Geez!


Yeah, I know, although I've seen them somewhat cheaper. Unfortunately the sources I've found don't ship to the US. Hopefully if we can find a US source, the price may be better. According to Pilo, Derailleurhanger.com sells their products, though they don't list the D547. I've emailed them to see if they're going to carry it.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Bnystrom said:


> There *is* a machined hanger available for Motobecane fat bikes. It's made by Pilo Precision Machining in Israel, model number D547.
> 
> View attachment 1077236
> 
> ...


Your search kung fu is impressive!
I'd be tempted to buy even an expensive one if it was bendable more than 1 time.

-F


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

This would be a replacement for the first gen Sturgis/bullet frames? I've got two of these bikes, one takes a derailleur hanger as pictured above, the other hanger is different, with 2 mounting screws.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

*Good news, the D547 hanger is available in the US!*

I received the following response from derailleurhanger.com:

We do have the Pilo hanger D547 in stock, and have only just recently received it. We have not as of yet had a chance to get this version on our website. So, in the meantime, if you'd like to order one, follow these steps:

1. Place an order for hanger #403: Derailleur Hanger #403

2. In the "Comments/Special Delivery Instructions" field on the Checkout page indicate that the hanger you need to have shipped is the "D547" hanger

3. I'll make sure you receive the correct part Hanger #403 is the same price that the D547 hanger will be, and is a rarely ordered hanger so I will be alerted by the above readily enough.

The price is $32.00 for one or $57.60 for two, which is not cheap, but is certainly reasonable.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

After two years of fun, my bottom bracket has started to squeak and creak. I figure I should service the bearings, but I don't know which tool to purchase to tear it down and the rebuild.

Any idea which bearings to purchase for this project?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

I rode a little over a year on this bike on FBN/65mm nextie rims.

I just made the switch to 29+ and it's awesome. Did a short write up in the fat bike 29+ conversion thread in the plus forum if anyone is interested.

I was getting a bit tired of this bike, but it gave it a whole new life!


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

I have a 29+ set of Duallys on Borealis hubs for sale if anyone is interested.... 150/197 hubs. Great shape, I love them compared to 26x4.8s for dirt riding- I just haven't been riding my Stugis much lately since my riding buddy Suya got a brain tumor followed by hip displaysia in the past 6mo. Eventually I'll build a set of carbon 29+ wheels but for now these have to go... Asking $520 shipped! Includes nearly new 29x3.0 Innova Vidar tires, I've even got a set of pretty worn out Chupacabras I'll throw in too. PM me if interested!


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## hicksjerry (Dec 14, 2014)

Can anyone offer assistance in servicing the hubs? I didn't have much luck with a youtube search.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

WhiskeyJr said:


> After two years of fun, my bottom bracket has started to squeak and creak. I figure I should service the bearings, but I don't know which tool to purchase to tear it down and the rebuild.
> 
> Any idea which bearings to purchase for this project?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I took the bottom bracket apart and found both external bearings a bit crunchy. I don't figure on purchasing the same SAMOX bearings, are the RaceFace a better quality part?


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

WhiskeyJr said:


> I took the bottom bracket apart and found both external bearings a bit crunchy. I don't figure on purchasing the same SAMOX bearings, are the RaceFace a better quality part?


From my experience, it's more the design and engineering of the bb and sealing than the quality of the bearings themselves. That being said, my personal experience with RaceFace sealed bottom brackets has been very good.  For example, my 29er Titanium Motobecane Mountain Bike has been trouble free on its Raceface BB for nearly 5 years of really hard use. Numerous water crossings in Western NC, a few 50 to 60 mile events where it either poured rain or we had rain above our hubs for most of the ride. Throw in a 30hour adventure race and top that off with Leadville 100 MTB. One ride recently we had a water crossing that was at least 300 yards of waist deep water. Not doing that again... LOL


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## gfowkes (Sep 24, 2008)

tfinator said:


> I rode a little over a year on this bike on FBN/65mm nextie rims.
> 
> I just made the switch to 29+ and it's awesome. Did a short write up in the fat bike 29+ conversion thread in the plus forum if anyone is interested.
> 
> ...


Link to the fat bike 29+ conversion thread? I couldn't find it and yes I tried "search


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

gfowkes said:


> Link to the fat bike 29+ conversion thread? I couldn't find it and yes I tried "search


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Fat+bike+29++conversion+mtbr

Don't know how to link threads. Alternatively, I think if you go to the plus forum is like the fifth one down right now.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

*Sturgis Bullet Tubeless Conversion*

My tubeless conversion. Schwalbe Jumbo Jim Liteskin 4.8 tires on Surly Rolling Darryl 82mm rims. I've used 3M tough transparent duct tape (2 layers), stans tubeless valve and stans tire sealant.


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## Car (Apr 15, 2014)

Anyone 5'3" or under riding these bikes?


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## ViperX (Oct 12, 2010)

Hi all

I am new to Fat bikes and have been reading a lot. I'm trying to understand why most Fat bikes are 26 and not 27.5? It seems even the built bikes are 26ers.
I am looking to build a Sturgis mostly because I prefer an XT drivetrain and dont want the hassle of selling new takeoff parts. I am also partial to the Orange bike. Anyway any feedback to the tire/rim question would be appreciated.
Noticed bd has 27.5 tires and rims here: PAIR of 27 PLUS FatBike WTB TCS Tubeless Compatible Wheels + FREE Tires: VeeRubber TraxFatty 27.5x3.25 inch

anyone use them with this bike?

Thanks for helping a newb.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

ViperX said:


> Hi all
> 
> I am new to Fat bikes and have been reading a lot. I'm trying to understand why most Fat bikes are 26 and not 27.5? It seems even the built bikes are 26ers.
> I am looking to build a Sturgis mostly because I prefer an XT drivetrain and dont want the hassle of selling new takeoff parts. I am also partial to the Orange bike. Anyway any feedback to the tire/rim question would be appreciated.
> ...


Most are 26ers because that's how fat bikes started (with surly and some others).

The 27.5x3.25 just basically exchanges some rim height for tire width.

Depending on how you want to use it will determine if it's a good idea. Very soft snow and sand, you're better off staying wide.

Tread is extremely important as well.


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

ViperX said:


> Hi all
> 
> I am new to Fat bikes and have been reading a lot. I'm trying to understand why most Fat bikes are 26 and not 27.5? It seems even the built bikes are 26ers.
> I am looking to build a Sturgis mostly because I prefer an XT drivetrain and dont want the hassle of selling new takeoff parts. I am also partial to the Orange bike. Anyway any feedback to the tire/rim question would be appreciated.
> ...


The outer diameter of a fat bike wheel (with tire) is about the same as a 27+ wheel (with tire) and a standard 29er wheel (with tire). If you want to use it in the snow, go with the 26 wider tires. You could always use the 27+ wheelset during the non-snow rides.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

It doesn't appear that the wheels are in stock now, if you go to check out.


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## ViperX (Oct 12, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback tfinator & Allamuchy Joe. I'm schooled now.
Decisions decisions...

You're right OhioPT..they dont show up at checkout anymore... Im going 26 anyways..
Thanks


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

Best options to reduce Q-Factor???

I have the original Sturgis Bullet and want to reduce the Q-Factor. Anyone have any luck finding replacement parts that make a noticeable difference???


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## missourifarmer (Aug 25, 2016)

got a used one - sturgis bullet - front tire tubeless. What kind of things should I look at, maintenance, etc. I am new to fatbikes.. etc. 

I added thudbuster.. helps with bluto fork. 

where to oil, lube, etc?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Dolbydarma said:


> Best options to reduce Q-Factor???
> 
> I have the original Sturgis Bullet and want to reduce the Q-Factor. Anyone have any luck finding replacement parts that make a noticeable difference???


If you remove the 10mm spacer on each side of the bottom bracket, you will need a shorter crank spindle. That will bring the drivetrain closer to the center of the frame which will cause your chain to rub your rear tire unless you go 1X. It's been done... somewhere in this thread.

-F


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

missourifarmer said:


> got a used one - sturgis bullet - front tire tubeless. What kind of things should I look at, maintenance, etc. I am new to fatbikes.. etc.
> 
> I added thudbuster.. helps with bluto fork.
> 
> where to oil, lube, etc?


It would be nice if this thread could be boiled down and separated into topics, but there's been a lot of talk about bearing care (hubs, bottom bracket, headset - they're cartridge and/or sealed, but they're not sealed all that well), and freehub failures due to looseness and/or flex in the rear hub (do not over-tighten). Those are the top issues. Everything else is pretty normal cleaning and lubing.

The frame collects water also. If it gets in the rain or submerged, I just stand it up on the rear tire and let it drain out the chain stays.

Also, always have a spare derailleur hanger.

-F


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## missourifarmer (Aug 25, 2016)

awesome thanks!


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Fleas said:


> The frame collects water also. If it gets in the rain or submerged, I just stand it up on the rear tire and let it drain out the chain stays.
> 
> -F


Found this out when my NTB drained a bunch of creek water out on my office carpet. I stood the bike up on its rear wheel and noticed I had some puddling.

I drain after each water crossing now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Haste11 (Jul 5, 2014)

Dolbydarma said:


> Best options to reduce Q-Factor???
> 
> I have the original Sturgis Bullet and want to reduce the Q-Factor. Anyone have any luck finding replacement parts that make a noticeable difference???


New cranks spaced for a 170/177 rear hub, 1x and chainring flipped

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ringding (Oct 9, 2011)

*2017 NightTrain Express*

Well just pulled the trigger on the 2017 NightTrain EXPRESS (15.5" matte gray). I have done a ton (months) of research on most of the boutique brands (Specialized, Surly, Salsa, origin8, you name it). Could not bring myself to plop down 2k or higher for a lower spec new or even a comparable spec used. As far as I can tell the componentry of the NT Express can demand a price tag of, easily, over $2k without shipping and/or tax for a boutique brand equivalent.

The only thing that is a bit questionable is the Carbon fork. Never had one. But I don't do anything hardcore so it should hold up fine for the riding I do....light trials and trail riding.

I do have to say that in looking at the frame in the pics the welds look pretty substantial and clean. I was a welder/fabricator for 8 years and I was impressed!

Free Ship 48 Plus Save up to 60% off new Carbon Fork Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane NightTrain Express Carbon Fork Fatbikes

Thoughts?


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

I haven't been out on my Sturgis Bullet for a while, but over the weekend I finally took off the winter shoes and put summer tires on (I know, I know... It'll be winter again soon...)

Changing the rubber, 45Nrth Flow and Dunderbeist to Juggernaught Pros, along with taking off my frame bag, putting on a bottle change and moving my tools/tube to a small saddlebag shed 5+lbs of weight. I don't know how that happened but the bike dropped from 37lbs (the last time I weighed it) to 31lbs 9oz.

Riding it again, the bike feels quite sprightly!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

ringding said:


> Well just pulled the trigger on the 2017 NightTrain EXPRESS (15.5" matte gray). I have done a ton (months) of research on most of the boutique brands (Specialized, Surly, Salsa, origin8, you name it). Could not bring myself to plop down 2k or higher for a lower spec new or even a comparable spec used. As far as I can tell the componentry of the NT Express can demand a price tag of, easily, over $2k without shipping and/or tax for a boutique brand equivalent.
> 
> The only thing that is a bit questionable is the Carbon fork. Never had one. But I don't do anything hardcore so it should hold up fine for the riding I do....light trials and trail riding.
> 
> ...


Those are all the reasons I bought mine a couple years ago. The fact that the frame may be a little overbuilt is actually a selling point to me.

-F


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## ringding (Oct 9, 2011)

Can't wait for it to get here! Not shipping until the end of Sept. I will take some detailed pics when it gets here and post for the curious....

R-


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## ringding (Oct 9, 2011)

Fleas said:


> Those are all the reasons I bought mine a couple years ago. The fact that the frame may be a little overbuilt is actually a selling point to me.
> 
> -F


How is yours holding up? Any complaints with Bikes Direct?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

ringding said:


> How is yours holding up? Any complaints with Bikes Direct?


The bike is fine. I do seasonal maintenance on all bearings and make sure the rear hub is never loose. The Tektro Draco brakes have had inactive pistons twice, but they come loose with some careful cleaning. I have broken one derailleur hanger (several giant trees went in it). The bike has often been ridden in what I consider "abusive" conditions (sand, sandy water/sediment, salt, snow, mud, axle-deep water...).

There was a dock workers strike right after I ordered my bike, so it got delayed several weeks along with many others. BD offered me an unclaimed bike in a different color to deliver closer to my promised date, but I was willing to wait for what I ordered.

I had issues with my Bluto fork right out of the box. That's on RockShox. BD can't do anything about it. I had to take it to a local dealer for $45 worth of attention. We never figured out what was specifically wrong with it, but they rebuilt it and it has been great ever since.

In your reading you may have heard about the derailleur hanger fiasco back when. They were snapping like icicles. BD sent out free replacements. I received one empty envelope, one incompatible hanger, and one correct one. So, the bike and the service has all been on the level, and in a lot of ways BD provided more product info than some of my LBS's ever did. If you were willing to plow through all of that info, then you know what you are getting and BD will deliver it.

-F


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## ringding (Oct 9, 2011)

Fleas said:


> Those are all the reasons I bought mine a couple years ago. The fact that the frame may be a little overbuilt is actually a selling point to me.
> 
> -F





Fleas said:


> The bike is fine. I do seasonal maintenance on all bearings and make sure the rear hub is never loose. The Tektro Draco brakes have had inactive pistons twice, but they come loose with some careful cleaning. I have broken one derailleur hanger (several giant trees went in it). The bike has often been ridden in what I consider "abusive" conditions (sand, sandy water/sediment, salt, snow, mud, axle-deep water...).
> 
> There was a dock workers strike right after I ordered my bike, so it got delayed several weeks along with many others. BD offered me an unclaimed bike in a different color to deliver closer to my promised date, but I was willing to wait for what I ordered.
> 
> ...


Awesome!! Thanks for the info! Much appreciated!


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## strengthxcycle (Dec 15, 2012)

My nighttrain has been great! My $4000 full suspension is always creaking and needing some maintenance ... Drives me nuts! When I don't feel like dealing with tuning or any issues I grab the night train... Never gives me any crap. I absolutely love riding it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MTBlawyer (Aug 20, 2016)

strengthxcycle said:


> My nighttrain has been great! My $4000 full suspension is always creaking and needing some maintenance ... Drives me nuts! When I don't feel like dealing with tuning or any issues I grab the night train... Never gives me any crap. I absolutely love riding it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I ordered the Sturgis NX, can't wait to try it out. I was thinking the same thing about my full suspension the other day, something is always creaking or needs adjustment...


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## ringding (Oct 9, 2011)

Just received the shipping notice that my NTX has arrived and should be shipping out to me in the next 24 hours!!! Chomping at the bit!!!!


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

What grease do you guys recommend for the Novatech hubs? And what other maintenance is recommended besides greasing the hubs and freewheel (lightly) before I ride the bike?


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## MTBlawyer (Aug 20, 2016)

ringding said:


> Just received the shipping notice that my NTX has arrived and should be shipping out to me in the next 24 hours!!! Chomping at the bit!!!!


Sweet. My tracking just updated and it will be arriving Tuesday, just ordered some pedals too.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

MTBlawyer said:


> Sweet. My tracking just updated and it will be arriving Tuesday, just ordered some pedals too.


Thursday for me


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I commute on mine every day. It is a real hoot and has held together really well.










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## ringding (Oct 9, 2011)

Just received my Race Face Chester Pedals (orange), HOPE QR seatpost clamp (orange) and Race Face Atlas bars 1.25 rise and 780mm wide (orange). Now I just need the bike to show up!!


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## MTBlawyer (Aug 20, 2016)

ringding said:


> Just received my Race Face Chester Pedals (orange), HOPE QR seatpost clamp (orange) and Race Face Atlas bars 1.25 rise and 780mm wide (orange). Now I just need the bike to show up!!


Thanks for reminding me, I need to get a QR.


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## ringding (Oct 9, 2011)

Received my NTX yesterday and I have to say holy crap this Motobecane frame is built like a tank!!!! I love it!! So glad I did not drop the coin on a boutique brand. The matte gray paint appears a bit darker in person (which I like). Rode it for about an hour after assembly (without the atlas bars) and it is smooth as silk and solid as a rock! Extremely impressed! Just bolted the atlas bars on about 30 minutes ago... My only gripe is I had to cut about 4 inches off the seat post for my height 5'9" and 29" inseam. The frame bottle cage braze ons limit the adjustability of the seat post on the 15.5" frame. Not a big deal once cut to proper length.

1st time on a 1x11 setup and so far I am NOT missing the extra front sprocket, derailleur, cables, shifter and weight. The gearing seems perfect so far...need more ride time to get a full assessment.

I will add more info as I get more experience on it.

Well here are pics...


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

ringding said:


> Received my NTX yesterday and I have to say holy crap this Motobecane frame is built like a tank!!!! I love it!! So glad I did not drop the coin on a boutique brand. The matte gray paint appears a bit darker in person (which I like). Rode it for about an hour after assembly (without the atlas bars) and it is smooth as silk and solid as a rock! Extremely impressed! Just bolted the atlas bars on about 30 minutes ago... My only gripe is I had to cut about 4 inches off the seat post for my height 5'9" and 29" inseam. The frame bottle cage braze ons limit the adjustability of the seat post on the 15.5" frame. Not a big deal once cut to proper length.
> 
> 1st time on a 1x11 setup and so far I am NOT missing the extra front sprocket, derailleur, cables, shifter and weight. The gearing seems perfect so far...need more ride time to get a full assessment.
> 
> ...


Looks great. Congratulations and good luck.


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## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

All things considered that's a pretty bike!


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

@ringding !  Awesome - love to see some riding pics 

Did you convert to tubeless yet? Most customers report losing about 1.5 lbs per wheel
Will be incredibly light  
These NightTrain Express fat bikes have been selling very well and many sizes are going to be sold out soon 



ringding said:


> Received my NTX yesterday and I have to say holy crap this Motobecane frame is built like a tank!!!! I love it!! So glad I did not drop the coin on a boutique brand. The matte gray paint appears a bit darker in person (which I like). Rode it for about an hour after assembly (without the atlas bars) and it is smooth as silk and solid as a rock! Extremely impressed! Just bolted the atlas bars on about 30 minutes ago... My only gripe is I had to cut about 4 inches off the seat post for my height 5'9" and 29" inseam. The frame bottle cage braze ons limit the adjustability of the seat post on the 15.5" frame. Not a big deal once cut to proper length.
> 
> 1st time on a 1x11 setup and so far I am NOT missing the extra front sprocket, derailleur, cables, shifter and weight. The gearing seems perfect so far...need more ride time to get a full assessment.
> 
> ...


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

ringding said:


> Received my NTX yesterday and I have to say holy crap this Motobecane frame is built like a tank!!!! I love it!! So glad I did not drop the coin on a boutique brand. The matte gray paint appears a bit darker in person (which I like). Rode it for about an hour after assembly (without the atlas bars) and it is smooth as silk and solid as a rock! Extremely impressed! Just bolted the atlas bars on about 30 minutes ago... My only gripe is I had to cut about 4 inches off the seat post for my height 5'9" and 29" inseam. The frame bottle cage braze ons limit the adjustability of the seat post on the 15.5" frame. Not a big deal once cut to proper length.
> 
> 1st time on a 1x11 setup and so far I am NOT missing the extra front sprocket, derailleur, cables, shifter and weight. The gearing seems perfect so far...need more ride time to get a full assessment.
> 
> ...


That paint looks awesome


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## Scow (Nov 5, 2014)

*Can't Wait*

Shipping movement. I preordered 9/8/16 and the 15.5 NTX is coming this Friday. Thanks for the preview ringding. The bike looooks awesome. Fat and happy!


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Jealous of that crankset and pair of wheels!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ringding (Oct 9, 2011)

Scow said:


> Shipping movement. I preordered 9/8/16 and the 15.5 NTX is coming this Friday. Thanks for the preview ringding. The bike looooks awesome. Fat and happy!


You are going to be very happy this weekend!!! Bike is friggin awesome! Went out for 5 mile rip today...all good things my friend....all good!!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## ringding (Oct 9, 2011)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Jealous of that crankset and pair of wheels!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Gotta say I am impressed with the weight. Crank is butter smooth and the rims/tires feel light to me even with the tubes. Going tubeless when I get the time to convert. Thinking of putting in orange rim strips to match the theme I am going with....

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## ringding (Oct 9, 2011)

ringding said:


> You are going to be very happy this weekend!!! Bike is friggin awesome! Went out for 5 mile rip today...all good things my friend....all good!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


Also... Lots of riders stopped me and had to ask all kinds of questions and were very impressed by the componentry, frame and price. Not that I really give a crap about the showing off thing but it felt good that someone with a $4k full suspension was impressed with the weight and looks!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

You guys will love your new fat bikes. Here's a little video of me on my Sturgis Bullet:


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

ringding said:


> Gotta say I am impressed with the weight. Crank is butter smooth and the rims/tires feel light to me even with the tubes. Going tubeless when I get the time to convert. Thinking of putting in orange rim strips to match the theme I am going with....
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


I wish I had the cash to spend when BD had the wheels available..... Out of stock now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oobaa47 (Sep 14, 2016)

sweet ride ringding. Mine should be arriving tomorrow, can't wait!! How much assembly is required? Are the brakes in good shape or do they need to be bled? How about the rear derailleur, already attached with no adjustment necessary?


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

oobaa47 said:


> sweet ride ringding. Mine should be arriving tomorrow, can't wait!! How much assembly is required? Are the brakes in good shape or do they need to be bled? How about the rear derailleur, already attached with no adjustment necessary?


If you are pretty good with your hands and tools, it should take an hour or so.

The brakes are pre-bled.

My derailleur was perfect right out of the box, but some have had to tweak theirs. You won't know until you know, right?

I have built two BikesDirect fat bikes, both seemed to take more time to unpack from the box than getting assembled.

Just be sure to assemble the fork facing the right way. They are turned backwards for shipping, and more than one forum member has put theirs together facing the wrong direction, me included.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pfb (Jul 31, 2005)

My 2017 Sturgis NX showed up this morning...

Put it together this afternoon, was able to get out for a short ride this evening... Awesome so far! Still waiting on real pedals, quick release, tubeless conversion parts but quite happy for the $1,100 investment.


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## MTBlawyer (Aug 20, 2016)

pfb said:


> My 2017 Sturgis NX showed up this morning...
> 
> Put it together this afternoon, was able to get out for a short ride this evening... Awesome so far! Still waiting on real pedals, quick release, tubeless conversion parts but quite happy for the $1,100 investment.


Dope! I was at work and missed the shipment but picked mine up from the UPS location. I should have it assembled Friday and hopefully hit the beach Sunday!

What tubeless kit did you go with?


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## pfb (Jul 31, 2005)

MTBlawyer said:


> What tubeless kit did you go with?


I read many of the endless threads on preferred conversion techniques, I decided to go with 2.88" Gorilla tape ($12) and the sun-ringle STR kit for valves and sealant ($15). Ordered both from Amazon.

Considered the Sun-Ringle tape alternative, but it seems like there are some quality issues plus it is far more expensive.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Don't - gorilla tape sucks. Spend the little bit of extra, get the mulefut tape. The mulefut tape works on these rims, flawlessly.


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## MTBlawyer (Aug 20, 2016)

watermonkey said:


> Don't - gorilla tape sucks. Spend the little bit of extra, get the mulefut tape. The mulefut tape works on these rims, flawlessly.


Cool, I'll look into it. I will rock tubes for a while then have tubeless ready for winter.


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## pfb (Jul 31, 2005)

Again, seems like a point of contention. Tons of people have used the Gorilla tape solution and had zero problems, and quite a few folks have complained that the Sun-Ringle tape is poorly cut and causes problems. It think the number of people that have had problems with Gorilla tape is about the same as the Sun-Ringle tape. Either way, it's most likely an installation issue rather than a product issue.


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## MTBlawyer (Aug 20, 2016)

pfb said:


> Again, seems like a point of contention. Tons of people have used the Gorilla tape solution and had zero problems, and quite a few folks have complained that the Sun-Ringle tape is poorly cut and causes problems. It think the number of people that have had problems with Gorilla tape is about the same as the Sun-Ringle tape. * Either way, it's most likely an installation issue rather than a product issue*.


Those were my thoughts.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

WhiskeyJr said:


> I wish I had the cash to spend when BD had the wheels available..... Out of stock now.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The wheels with Vee Snowshoes are out of stock. They still have Mulefuts with Maxxis Tires on them for the same $399


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

watermonkey said:


> Don't - gorilla tape sucks. Spend the little bit of extra, get the mulefut tape. The mulefut tape works on these rims, flawlessly.


 Agreed 100%. I tried the cheap route with Gorilla tape on MuleFuts and it didn't work. Then I got the SunRingle (MuleFut) rim tape and it worked the first time.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Cerpss said:


> The wheels with Vee Snowshoes are out of stock. They still have Mulefuts with Maxxis Tires on them for the same $399


Thanks for the heads-up!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

pfb said:


> Again, seems like a point of contention. Tons of people have used the Gorilla tape solution and had zero problems, and quite a few folks have complained that the Sun-Ringle tape is poorly cut and causes problems. It think the number of people that have had problems with Gorilla tape is about the same as the Sun-Ringle tape. Either way, it's most likely an installation issue rather than a product issue.


I was the one with the messed up Mulefut tape about 8 months ago - two rolls in a row came messed up on the edges from the factory (manufacturing defect). Not an issue anymore. But, once clean rolls came, it was a perfect solution and designed to work with these rims. I even posted a pic somewhere showing exactly why the 2.8" wide gorilla tape isn't sufficient and won't work on the these - its not wide enough to cover the holes drilled in the bead shelf without taking 2 overlapping wraps of gorilla tape, adding a ton of weight, and then still having it fail at the seam. In the fatbike tubeless world, gorilla tape for tubeless setups is a decade out of date. But, go ahead, use the gorilla tape, and have a nice walk out of the snowy woods this winter when your setup fails. Just trying to help.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

What about the tubeless rim strip kits from fattystripper.com?

They look pretty nice.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

They're a really awesome, lightweight way to seal difficult rims or tires with marginal beads, but its questionable if they are reusable. Get a flat, and you might trash them in the process of installing a tube. If you switch back and forth between summer and winter tires on your fatty, then they'd be a pain. If you only needed to setup once, aren't prone to puncture flats in your area, then they are a really clever setup. But, that being said, the tape is just as light, more durable, and easier to install.


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## pfb (Jul 31, 2005)

watermonkey said:


> I was the one with the messed up Mulefut tape about 8 months ago - two rolls in a row came messed up on the edges from the factory (manufacturing defect). Not an issue anymore. But, once clean rolls came, it was a perfect solution].


OK, I'm convinced... Just ordered the 78mm Sun Ringle tape on Amazon. Thanks for costing me an extra $26!  Honestly it was the thought of spending the extra and getting questionable product that originally turned me off of that solution.

Side note... There was some discussion in the other tubeless Mulefut thread about generic rim strips vs. Sun Ringle... On the new bike, the spare rim strip (red) is branded Sun Ringle, not generici. I assume the black strip already installed is also branded Sun, but we'll see when we do the conversion. So it appears they are now coming with Sun Rngle strips instead of generic, one less thing to purchase if you think they make any difference.


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## GRod (Sep 14, 2016)

2017 Sturgis NX bought 2 and missed UPS today by a few hours.Delivery has been rescheduled for tomorrow. Wasn't expecting them until the 1st week of October now I can't wait until tomorrow.


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## pfb (Jul 31, 2005)

GRod said:


> 2017 Sturgis NX bought 2 and missed UPS today by a few hours.Delivery has been rescheduled for tomorrow. Wasn't expecting them until the 1st week of October now I can't wait until tomorrow.


You can also go into the UPS website and e-sign in advance for delivery...


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## GRod (Sep 14, 2016)

Thanks UPS came back last night found both boxes in the garage this morning.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

They snuck in to your garage over night and put them there? They're like Santa Claus. Congrats, good luck, and enjoy.


GRod said:


> Thanks UPS came back last night found both boxes in the garage this morning.


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## GRod (Sep 14, 2016)

content://media/external/file/45778


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Well my Sturgis NX arrived yesterday. Got it all put together with DiscoBrakes kevlar pads front and rear. Was going to adjust the derailleur but decided to just take it around the block first. Ended up getting serious chain-suck when I tried to go into 1st.  So adjust your derailleur.
Also I'm getting a weird popping noise from the front wheel area sometimes when I'm braking, or sometimes when I'm turning. It helped to tighten the through axle more, but I've never had a through axle so I don't know how tight to get it. I read a couple descriptions but they didn't really say much except "tight but not too tight".
I put the disk rotor on and tightened the bolts in the standard opposite pattern, then torqued them to 45 in/lbs (approx 5 NM) as directed.
Any thoughts?

Also I took it around this area near my house where they are cutting a subdivision out of this hill. Tons of super loose dirt, sand, gravel, unnaturally steep inclines, ruts, and about everything I used to avoid in my old 26" skinny bike. Man this thing goes over anything. I was bombing down steep inclines into pockets of sand and silt with 6" deep ruts going sideways and I never felt sketchy at all. It was crazy how awesome these fatties ride on bad terrain.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Did you make sure you put the spacers on the front hub?


KTMNealio said:


> Well my Sturgis NX arrived yesterday. Got it all put together with DiscoBrakes kevlar pads front and rear. Was going to adjust the derailleur but decided to just take it around the block first. Ended up getting serious chain-suck when I tried to go into 1st.  So adjust your derailleur.
> Also I'm getting a weird popping noise from the front wheel area sometimes when I'm braking, or sometimes when I'm turning. It helped to tighten the through axle more, but I've never had a through axle so I don't know how tight to get it. I read a couple descriptions but they didn't really say much except "tight but not too tight".
> I put the disk rotor on and tightened the bolts in the standard opposite pattern, then torqued them to 45 in/lbs (approx 5 NM) as directed.
> Any thoughts?
> ...


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

I saw that mentioned in another thread, but I could not find any spacers in the box. It looks like it is the proper width (no gaps when I put the wheel on).


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## oobaa47 (Sep 14, 2016)

*another NTX has arrived*

Finally put the beast together.....went with the green color scheme; green diety pedals, green diety seat post clamp, seat post, and saddle. First impressions: Looks like it has outstanding tire clearance. Plenty of room even with the 4.8 minions on. Don't notice the Q factor at all. I have a 34 inch inseam so I'm not sure if that's a factor or not. Front fork definitely appears to flex quite a bit while under heavy front braking and popping wheelies. I'm 220 lbs so that could be normal with my kind of weight on a carbon fork, but not sure. Need to get wider bars as these measure in at 700mm. Green deity bars will be on order shortly. My large is tipping the scales at 33 lbs even, still haven't gone tubeless. There's definitely some type of play in the front. Not sure if it's the hub or not, but the headset seems tight so not sure where it's coming from. For those who mentioned about these spacers, did they come with the bike? Didn't notice any spacers. Can't wait to hit the trails tomorrow on it!!!


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

My fish hook scale said my XL Sturgis NX was 36lbs even


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## Scow (Nov 5, 2014)

My 15.5 NTX didn't have any hub spacers. The hub fit the carbon fork fine. Stock out of the box weight was 32 lbs. 14 oz. Changed the seat to a Charge spoon, 3T carbon bars and seat post, Richey Trail stem and it now sits at 31 lbs. 5 oz. Looking to go tubeless in the future. Ton's of goat heads looking to take the fun out of the ride. Love the way the bike looks.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

OK, maybe the rigid fork doesn't need the spacers. Those of us with Blutos need them.


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## MTBlawyer (Aug 20, 2016)

oobaa47 said:


> Finally put the beast together.....went with the green color scheme; green diety pedals, green diety seat post clamp, seat post, and saddle. First impressions: Looks like it has outstanding tire clearance. Plenty of room even with the 4.8 minions on. Don't notice the Q factor at all. I have a 34 inch inseam so I'm not sure if that's a factor or not. Front fork definitely appears to flex quite a bit while under heavy front braking and popping wheelies. I'm 220 lbs so that could be normal with my kind of weight on a carbon fork, but not sure. Need to get wider bars as these measure in at 700mm. Green deity bars will be on order shortly. My large is tipping the scales at 33 lbs even, still haven't gone tubeless. There's definitely some type of play in the front. Not sure if it's the hub or not, but the headset seems tight so not sure where it's coming from. For those who mentioned about these spacers, did they come with the bike? Didn't notice any spacers. Can't wait to hit the trails tomorrow on it!!!


I noticed the slight play in the front as well when I would hold the front brake and rock the bike back and forth. I will get to the bottom of it when I get home and report back.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

I figured out my popping noise. There was some powder coat on the inside of the fork where the hub spacer mates up, so it wasn't a square/even surface. Scraped the surface clean and now it's good.

Also what I thought was a clunky/loose hub or wheel was just the brake pads moving in the caliper when I moved the back back and forth.

Man I took this thing out for 3 hours today, and I couldn't be happier. It climbed awesome as expected, but also felt amazing bombing some down hill sections as well. Railed corners like no other bike I've ever ridden. The only thing it didn't do well today was hitting steep bmx jumps, probably due to the semi-truck like wheelbase.
I'm wishing I could go back in time 20 years and give myself this bike.


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## oobaa47 (Sep 14, 2016)

Was able to take the monster truck out for a spin yesterday. Rode some singletrack and some atv trails. Man, this thing climbs like a beast!! The atv trails have all sorts of loose rock, sand, and dirt.....I climbed right up it. I never wouldve been able to do that on my skinny. Had the tire pressure set at 9.5 rear and 8.5 front. That was a base setting and I'll adjust in the future, but so far, that felt pretty good. Very crisp shifting with the gx, no adjustments at all. Plenty of room for me on the large, I'm 6'1", it feels very sturdy and responsive, with plenty of leg room. I like the nice touch of providing an extra derailleur hanger, very impressed. Also, for those of you who haven't unboxed yet, please check all those cardboard boxes that appear just to be packing assistance, check every one of them. I was about to discard them but them opened them all up. One of them contains sun ringle rim strips. Fork still feels quite flexy to me, not sure if that's just the characteristics of the carbon or not. More saddle team is needed to get a good assessment. Overall, very impressed with the build quality and how it's spec'ed. I only bought it to get more saddle time in the snowy months but something tells me I'm going to be on it way more than I think!!!!


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

KTMNealio said:


> Well my Sturgis NX arrived yesterday....Man this thing goes over anything. I was bombing down steep inclines into pockets of sand and silt with 6" deep ruts going sideways and I never felt sketchy at all. It was crazy how awesome these fatties ride on bad terrain.


@KTM - glad you are enjoying your Motobecane Sturgis NX Fat bike  Love to see some pics. We are thinking of a riding pic contest to win some surprise prizes- what do you think?
These handle awesome as you are finding and with the new Maxxis Minion fatbike tires, they handle incredibly well!


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

I took my Sturgis Bullet for it first proper trail ride since last winter over the weekend. I had fun on it. The bike is not exactly stock anymore though.

A few comments.

1) the bike feels slow uphill but it just keeps trucking along and handled the loose sandy conditions well. I even got a few PRs on Strava climbing which totally surprised me.

2) The bike is scary compared to my 5.5" trail bike once you get over 20 mph. But that is not its forte (see 3).

3) For lazy riding, when you just want to enjoy the ride, see the terrain and not worry about KOMs or PRs it's hard to beat.

4) The Kenda Juggernaut Pro tires I have on it are not aggressive enough on the front for really loose conditions. I need more bite to feel more secure. It was sketchy at best yesterday.

I videoed my downhills for my YouTube channel showing the bike off but I screwed up the sound so I have some work to do to recover a useful video. For now some pictures.


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

I'm intrigued by what I'm seeing with the NightTrain Express. What are the stock weights on these bikes?


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

This is the video from my ride on Sunday. It's amazing how much slower it looks on camera than what I was feeling riding it!






One take out from this ride is that the Kenda Juggernaut Pro is probably not the best tire for extremely loose over hard conditions. It did not inspire confidence at all. I may put the Vee Snowshoe 4.5 back on the front only for now until I change back to my winter rubber.


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## kidd (Apr 16, 2006)

That's the same tire combo I'm running. Except for the pro. Losing a pound off my bike with just a tire change would be nice. But I can't justify the cost or the thin sidewall risks


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

The Pros are pretty cheap at $55 and they seem to roll well. I dropped my bike from >35lb to <32lbs when I took off my 45Nrth Dunder and Flowbeists. You are right though, the sidewall is thin and I am not 100% sure on the support they provide. I was running them at around 10.5 - 11 psi and even then there were times when they felt like they folded under the rim at speed.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

TheNormsk said:


> The Pros are pretty cheap at $55 and they seem to roll well.


I thought the Juggernaut Pros had horrible rolling resistance....?

Kenda Juggernaut Pro Rolling Resistance Review


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

KTMNealio said:


> I thought the Juggernaut Pros had horrible rolling resistance....?
> 
> Kenda Juggernaut Pro Rolling Resistance Review


Compared to what though? It's a big ass tire. I wouldn't say it's a quick as a skinny 29er tire but it was also a lot easier to pedal than my 1400+g 4.8s I had on before. I shed around 3 lbs in tires alone with this combo so while it may not be the best it was still a lot better (than before).

I've read the Schwalbes are better but I've had such horrid experiences with Schwalbe tires I'll never get another pair.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

TheNormsk said:


> Compared to what though?


Every other tire they tested..? Click the link.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

KTMNealio said:


> Every other tire they tested..? Click the link.


Yes I read it. What I'm saying is yes, while it may be poor in the sample of tires they had, they're not comparable to what I had on before which was the seriously beefy 45Nrth Flowbeist and Dunderbeist.

Regardless of the rolling resistance - these tires work for now - as I'm not racing and in the summer I would typically only ride this bike on multiuse crusher paths with my kids. For that they're fine and save my much more expensive tires for winter.


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

TheNormsk said:


> This is the video from my ride on Sunday. It's amazing how much slower it looks on camera than what I was feeling riding it!
> 
> One take out from this ride is that the Kenda Juggernaut Pro is probably not the best tire for extremely loose over hard conditions. It did not inspire confidence at all. I may put the Vee Snowshoe 4.5 back on the front only for now until I change back to my winter rubber.


My wife and I were out in Buffalo Creek back in 2012 and we loved it (we are from NJ). The only bad thing there were some black flies in the valley -- when we stopped to take a look at the views, we were bitten something fierce. Kept us moving at least. 

I have On-One Floaters on my Boris and they hook up really well in all conditions -- dirt, mud & snow. Love em! The downside for you Sturgis and Night Train guys is that they are "only" 4 inches wide.


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

I just ordered a NT Express. I'm a 1st gen Lurch owner and I've been very happy with it. I had originally planned it to be my winter only bike, but I haven't ridden my road bike at all and I sold my 29er. Since I ride it so much, I couldn't resist the better components on the NTX. I checked around at my local bike shops for something comparable. The closest thing I found was a Fatboy SE for $1500 with x5 components. Seriously? I haven't been on an x5 in forever. Still, it's nice to see fatbike prices coming down a bit lately. 

Nice job on the included components on this bike, BD. The frame looks great as well. I plan on putting my Bluto on this for summer trail riding and using the carbon fork for XC and winter riding. Can't wait to get this thing rolling.


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## Scow (Nov 5, 2014)

*Stock Night Train Express*



Barheet said:


> I'm intrigued by what I'm seeing with the NightTrain Express. What are the stock weights on these bikes?[/QUOTE
> 
> Stock out of the box weight of my 15.5 night train express was 32 lbs. 14 oz. including reflectors.
> I was impressed on my ride yesterday at how much traction / stopping power the minions have. It did much better than I thought it would on the downhill as well. Not as good as fully susp. of course but I expecting more bucking. Ran 10psi front and 11 rear and I am at 155 lbs. It definitely rolls over obstacles better than my 27.5 fully susp.


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

My kid's small Sturgis with the BD carbon fork, Kenda Juggernaughts and tubeless comes in under 30 pounds.


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## GRod (Sep 14, 2016)

New to forum and would like to post some pics of my new Sturgis NX but don't know how. Rides awesome and just as fast as my anthem 27.5 sx on my local trail. Raceface peddals and seat along with carbon post, stem and bar 740mm. Taped for tubless just giving it a day to seat after re installing the tubes. Will remove tube tonight and add orange seal 6 to 8oz per tire. 34.6 lbs with tubes.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

GRod said:


> New to forum and would like to post some pics of my new Sturgis NX but don't know how. Rides awesome and just as fast as my anthem 27.5 sx on my local trail. Raceface peddals and seat along with carbon post, stem and bar 740mm. Taped for tubless just giving it a day to seat after re installing the tubes. Will remove tube tonight and add orange seal 6 to 8oz per tire. 34.6 lbs with tubes.


@GRod- Ride Happy! You should be able to post pics if you go "advanced" when you reply. Or you can email them to me  PM me your email address


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

@joebikesdirect: What's the recommended Axle to Crown length for the Bullet Fat Bike Frameset? Thanks.


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## MTBlawyer (Aug 20, 2016)

Sturgis NX and Boris X7 at Illinois Beach State Park.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

FitmanNJ said:


> @joebikesdirect: What's the recommended Axle to Crown length for the Bullet Fat Bike Frameset? Thanks.


Hey FitmanNJ - For the Motobecane Fat bikes Sturgis and NightTrain I would say don't exceed the A-C of the 120mm Rockshox Bluto by much more unless you are willing to deal with excessive front end flop. https://www.sram.com/rockshox/products/bluto


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

joebikesdirect said:


> Hey FitmanNJ - For the Motobecane Fat bikes Sturgis and NightTrain I would say don't exceed the A-C of the 120mm Rockshox Bluto by much more unless you are willing to deal with excessive front end flop. https://www.sram.com/rockshox/products/bluto


I agree, but do you have an exact millimeter length for a rigid fork around which the bike frame was designed? I want to keep the head tube angle as close as possible to the original design. Thanks.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

What is your handling preference? These frames are designed around a range of different Axle to Crown lengths. The shorter you go on A-C the less flop and more XC type handling.


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## bmaack (Aug 11, 2016)

What is the aaproximate weight?


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

joebikesdirect said:


> What is your handling preference? These frames are designed around a range of different Axle to Crown lengths. The shorter you go on A-C the less flop and more XC type handling.


I live in New Jersey. There's lot's of tight, twisty singletrack here. XC type handling would be the goal; a slack headtube angle just isn't as good a choice for the type of riding I do. I like that the headtube angle on the Bullet Fatbike Frameset is 70 degrees, and would not want to change it when using a suspension fork.


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## oobaa47 (Sep 14, 2016)

Bmaack, I'm at 33 lbs even........size large frame with diety pedals, seat, seat post, and clamp......still haven't converted to tubeless yet....


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## us338386 (May 10, 2015)

So the article here on MTBR has the NTE at 26.75lbs?? Real-world experience seems no where near that. That's a pretty important detail if you are thinking of racing this steed. Quite the whopper.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

26.75 lbs. is very optimistic, even with tubeless setup and no pedals as indicated in the article. 


us338386 said:


> So the article here on MTBR has the NTE at 26.75lbs?? Real-world experience seems no where near that. That's a pretty important detail if you are thinking of racing this steed. Quite the whopper.


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## GRod (Sep 14, 2016)

Cateye Pradrone Cycle Computer: max tire reference is 29x3.0 I'm runing 4.80 how close are these two sizes if close at all. Thanks.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

FitmanNJ said:


> I live in New Jersey. There's lot's of tight, twisty singletrack here. XC type handling would be the goal; a slack headtube angle just isn't as good a choice for the type of riding I do. I like that the headtube angle on the Bullet Fatbike Frameset is 70 degrees, and would not want to change it when using a suspension fork.


A 470 A-C would yield around a 70 degree HTA. So if you have a Bluto you'd have to install a 80mm travel air shaft. My Sturgis is super slack with the 120mm Bluto.


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## pfb (Jul 31, 2005)

pfb said:


> My 2017 Sturgis NX showed up this morning...
> 
> Put it together this afternoon, was able to get out for a short ride this evening... Awesome so far! Still waiting on real pedals, quick release, tubeless conversion parts but quite happy for the $1,100 investment.


Threw it on the scale yesterday, definitely no lightweight! A hair over 35 pounds (medium frame) all stock except for RaceFace Chester pedals (340g claimed), and Origin8 seatpost clamp. I have the SunRingle tubless conversion kit sitting in my garage, I'll weight the wheels before/after the conversion and see how much it sheds

So far I've still only been able to take fairly mellow local rides and not get it up to Winter Park for some real riding, but definitely enjoying it!

Note that this is the NX... No carbon fork, heavier seat, NX running gear, Tektro brakes all of which add a bit of weight.


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## IPA Rider (Aug 24, 2008)

us338386 said:


> So the article here on MTBR has the NTE at 26.75lbs?? Real-world experience seems no where near that. That's a pretty important detail if you are thinking of racing this steed. Quite the whopper.


IF this were realistic, I'd be tempted.

Anyone just taking the $699 frame and building up something with higher end parts to get one under 25lbs?


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

IPA Rider said:


> IF this were realistic, I'd be tempted.
> 
> Anyone just taking the $699 frame and building up something with higher end parts to get one under 25lbs?


Sub-25 pounds is not realistic at all unless you strip everything off, even the wheels and replace them with the 29er wheelset. The bike starts at 35 pounds and it would be very expensive to get to sub-25.

You can make it maybe about 29 pounds by buying a butt load of light weight parts, but for me this is not going to happen. That is why I have my Trance 27.5 -- that's my light bike. My fattie is meant for off-season riding (heavy leaf cover, snow, mud), riding with newbies and when I feel like riding a fattie ride with my friends. During these rides the extra weight doesn't bother me because it is big goofy fun and gives you a great workout even on "easy" rides. It only really bothers me when putting it into and out of the truck bed! LOL
However, you could buy the Sturgis and then transfer the parts onto one of those ICAN carbon frames.


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

IPA Rider said:


> IF this were realistic, I'd be tempted.
> 
> Anyone just taking the $699 frame and building up something with higher end parts to get one under 25lbs?


Start with a carbon frame if you want 25# cause to get a Stugis that low it's going to take all carbon components.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

bcriverjunky said:


> Start with a carbon frame if you want 25# cause to get a Stugis that low it's going to take all carbon components.


Thi still won't happen.

I just sold my Night Train. It was a Medium. Carbon fork, carbon 80mm wheels, carbon bar, carbon post, Thomson stem, ESI grips, Fizik Gobi XM saddle, Race Face RIDE crank (170mm OLD spindle), tubeless, Snowshoe XL tires. The bike was 29#. With Jumbo Jim 4" tires, I could get this down to about 27#. But why ride a 197 rear end bike only to put on 4" tires to get weight down. The only "heavy" part on my bike was the frame, crank and tires. I agree that to get to 25# you need to go Carbon...so I now have a FM190 on the way.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Ok, I can't figure this out. I have an older NTB, and I am running the Snowshoe 4.5" tires. I was looking at some snowshoe xl's. 

Will the XL fit on this bike without scrubbing? I have tried to search the thread, but my google skills are lacking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

My freehub was making really soft clicking noises when I'm costing, and sometimes would pop when I engage the drive after coasting. I took my freehub off last night and cleaned all the factory grease out of it. The pawls would stick in the down position when I would press on them. I used sine lighter, waterproof grease and now it clicks like a normal freehub.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Yes. I was running the XL's on my NT 17.5". Tones of clearance. I was running a 1x drivetrain. Race Face Ride cranks for 170mm OLD with RF NW 30t ring run on the outside (flipped) position. Good chainline and clearance.

Bud/Lou fit and they are wider and taller than the XL's.



WhiskeyJr said:


> Ok, I can't figure this out. I have an older NTB, and I am running the Snowshoe 4.5" tires. I was looking at some snowshoe xl's.
> 
> Will the XL fit on this bike without scrubbing? I have tried to search the thread, but my google is lacking.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Ok, I can't figure this out. I have an older NTB, and I am running the Snowshoe 4.5" tires. I was looking at some snowshoe xl's.
> 
> Will the XL fit on this bike without scrubbing? I have tried to search the thread, but my google skills are lacking.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Check the snowshoe tire threads in fatbikes. I think they have a list of compatible frames.

-F


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Fleas said:


> Check the snowshoe tire threads in fatbikes. I think they have a list of compatible frames.
> 
> -F


Thanks!

I have just bought some used studded XL's off facebook, I have been told they will fit just fine. I'll post results and pictures when they are mounted.

I hate to put new tires on this bike, as my daily commute has a couple of miles of pavement. It just wears out tires incredibly fast.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I have just bought some used studded XL's off facebook, I have been told they will fit just fine. I'll post results and pictures when they are mounted.
> 
> ...


I've got 2500 + miles of which about 2,000 are pavement on my stock Barbegazzis. They still have over half their tread.


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## sfbiker (May 20, 2006)

New 2017 NightTrain EXPRESS here, stock with 600+ grams of platform pedals, tubeless, 17.5, comes in right at 32lbs. For reference, the new carbon full sus Trek Farley 9.8 tubeless was also 32 lbs with 4" tires.


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

sfbiker said:


> New 2017 NightTrain EXPRESS here, stock with 600+ grams of platform pedals, tubeless, 17.5, comes in right at 32lbs. For reference, the new carbon full sus Trek Farley 9.8 tubeless was also 32 lbs with 4" tires.
> 
> View attachment 1097719


Congrats on the new whip, what size is it?


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## sfbiker (May 20, 2006)

17.5


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

Sweet bike, I'm actually really close to ordering the same bike. Question: I'm 5'7" but my inseam is almost 32" so I have a short torso and longer legs. Do you think the 15.5 will work for me? I ride in kind of a roadie position with the seat pretty high.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

I'm about 5'9" and using the book against the wall method my inseam is about 31" without shoes and 32" with running shoes. The bike shop told me I have a long torso. 

I ride a 15.5". when rigid I had about 1+" of standover clearance. I haven't measured since I added a Bluto. Overall I like it. I slammed the seat all the way back and the reach is still a little shorter than I'd like but I do fine with it. I just haven't gotten around to trying a longer stem. So being you're 1-2" shorter than me in what sounds like mostly torso length, I think a 15.5" is probably going to fit you fine.


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

Thanks. BD recommended the 15.5 too. Trying to compare to a Farley 7 (same Kinesys frame) and Trek size charts say I should be on a 17.5 although they have 6 frame sizes to chose from. Tried comparing effective top tube lengths to my other mtb and road bikes. Looks close.

Edit: ordered a 15.5 Night Train Express (matte gray) this afternoon. In stock and shipping soon. Super stoked and hoping the sizing works for me.


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## GRod (Sep 14, 2016)

*BB which is the correct tool*

I would like to know what tool I need to remove the BB on my Sturgis NX


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

robc in wi said:


> Thanks. BD recommended the 15.5 too. Trying to compare to a Farley 7 (same Kinesys frame) and Trek size charts say I should be on a 17.5 although they have 6 frame sizes to chose from. Tried comparing effective top tube lengths to my other mtb and road bikes. Looks close.
> 
> Edit: ordered a 15.5 Night Train Express (matte gray) this afternoon. In stock and shipping soon. Super stoked and hoping the sizing works for me.


I have no idea what my "book against the wall" measurements are but I am 5'7" and have a 17.5" Farley and small Sturgis in the garage.

Let me know if you need any info about them.


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## justin70 (Sep 17, 2007)

Just for reference I'm 6'3" and got the 21" night train and it fits. I think the 19" would be too small for sure. I'm comparison the 21.5" trek mountain bikes, including farley, fit me pretty well. but actually might be a bit on the small size compared to the night train. Lots of seat post showing on the farley and if I had gone with the farley probably would have sized up.


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

I also have a 15.5 Farley and a 15.5 Sturgis NX


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

My 2017 Night Train Express is in route and expected to be delivered tomorrow afternoon. Ordered it (15.5" matte gray) last Thursday so I'm really happy about the prompt shipping considering all of the horror stories in this thread about lengthy waits and delays. 
I will be swapping out the heavy saddle and seat post immediately with tubeless conversion and probably a lighter stem and bars. Can't wait to get it on the trails.


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

I've been riding my new NTX for about a week and here is my initial review:

I bought a Lurch two years ago with the intention of it being a snow only bike, but I never rode my 29er again, so I sold that one. After two years on the Lurch, I decided to upgrade to the NTX. This bike is head and shoulders better than the Lurch. It is lighter, smoother, and feels a bit more stable to me, even with the shorter stem. Mine came in perfectly tuned out of the box. I didn't even have to straighten the rotors or anything. I rode it with the carbon fork for a couple of days, then mounted the Bluto. The Bluto adds a couple of pounds of weight, which is noticeable but I like the cushion during the warmer months.

I ended up putting my WTB volt seat on my Night Train. I did not like the seat that came with the NT, but that's personal preference.

Here are some of the highlights:

Night Train frame: My frame came in perfect condition. No scratches or scuffs. I am so glad I got the matte finish. I did not like the easily scratched finished of the gloss Lurch. The welds look solid and the whole thing is nicely made.

SRAM Guide RS brakes: Holy cow, these are amazing! They are so, so smooth and the power is incredible. I've had hydros before, as well as the BB7's, but these Guides...wow.

1X11 GX drivetrain: I've never had a true 1x drivetrain, but I've always wanted one. This thing is beast. Smooth, quick shifting, no delay. The granny gear is everything I would ever need. There is a bit of tension on the chain in granny. I'm not sure about long-term effects with that, but I don't put it in low very often anyway.

Minion FBF/FBR: These tires are very smooth. I thought they would be like tractor tires. The knobs are big, but they are close together and there is less rolling resistance than I thought there would be. They grip better than the Snowshoes in sand and loose dirt/gravel. I am excited to see how they do in the snow. Still running tubes in the tires. I'll get that converted to tubeless soon. I don't foresee a problem with that.

The carbon fork is fantastic so far, but I have been riding more with the Bluto. I'll switch them out soon for the winter and provide an update. With the carbon fork, the bike handling changes quite a bit and the acceleration is more rapid. This is a 17.5 frame.


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## tjl5709 (Mar 23, 2006)

Ordered a 2017 Night Train. They delivered it within 4 days. No issues setting it up. Targeting snow and beach. Looks nice, pretty well kitted out.


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## oobaa47 (Sep 14, 2016)

*Ntx*

Ok, here she is. It's a matte grey large (19") frame with green deity pedals, bars, grips, seat post, seat, clamp, and valve caps. A buddy of mine calls it the Green Goblin. I guess it can also be called the Green Goblin Deity Fanboy model. Bought the bright green duct tape, just need to put it on and convert to tubeless. She tips the scales at 33 lbs exactly with the above components. I'd imagine she'll get about two lbs leaner after tubeless conversion. Loving it so far, can't wait for snowfall!!!!


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## strengthxcycle (Dec 15, 2012)

Still love mine I ride it to work a lot and trails of course... just built up a set of 29+ wheels wow what a good ride with these wheels. They are stans Hugo 52mm rims with maxis chronically 29x3... fast rolling and smooth... I also just threw my rigid fork back on since the snow will be here soon...


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> 05-04-15
> ...Continuing the Sturgis Bullet review after some tight, twisty PA singletrack.
> ... and *I finally had to get the air side swapped out of my Bluto fork because it just wasn't working*. Well now it's working, but I will probably refer to the Bluto Tuning thread for the application of bottomless tokens. I set the sag at maybe 15% with the damper lockout set on 2 (of 5) and it behaved OK, esp. where steering was concerned, but when I hit it hard it blew through the travel quite easily. The fork was very predictable in any case. btw - don't quote that 15% sag... I throw my weight around quite a bit, so it might be a little more when I'm actually riding in an attack position (which I _try_ to approximate during fork set-up).
> ...
> ...


Bluto is leaking air. Is this about average for a service interval? It started out new with some kind of leak to the lower chamber that rendered it useless after the first big hit. It was fixed the day before the ride posted above. It's my "other" bike so it doesn't have a lot of long hours on it. It does have some hard hours on it, though.

Since the post above I have installed 3 tokens and am running maybe 70psi. Damper is still on 2. Sag is about 20-25%.

The Bluto has seen axle-high water crossings, and mud, snow, and salt. Usu. put away relatively clean.

Thanks,
-F


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

oobaa47 said:


> Ok, here she is. It's a matte grey large (19") frame with green deity pedals, bars, grips, seat post, seat, clamp, and valve caps. A buddy of mine calls it the Green Goblin. I guess it can also be called the Green Goblin Deity Fanboy model. Bought the bright green duct tape, just need to put it on and convert to tubeless. She tips the scales at 33 lbs exactly with the above components. I'd imagine she'll get about two lbs leaner after tubeless conversion. Loving it so far, can't wait for snowfall!!!!


That's a really pretty build!

I always thought the grey looked bland but with your colors it looks sharp! Good job.


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## no sweat (Aug 21, 2014)

Searched and can't find the answer, so here's my dumb question of the day: has anyone tried a tubeless conversion on the stock 60 tpi Minion 4.80s?

My (2017) NTB arrives tomorrow...


...and it's here! Out of the box & set up, no issues. As delivered, with tubes, no pedals, reflectors or spoke protector, it's a no BS, no wishful thinking 35.5 lbs (med., 17.5"). Argh. A little stouter than hoped for, although qualitatively the heft seems reasonable for what it is. Those *are* some big ole monster tires, after all.

Some commonly replaced component weights:
Saddle 379g
Seat Post 380g
Handlebar w/grips 464g
Stem, 80mm, 122g
Tubes 445g ea

So there's some help to be had there if one wants to spend the money or needs to change out for fit. 

Frame is very nice: Kinesis is doing smoothed welds now, no more "stack of nickels". Top marks, it all looks great.

Wheels are about as expected. Okay to ride on as is, but better if you spend some time truing and tensioning. I did that (no issues) and changed out the black rim strips for red. I found the tires very easy to mount/dismount. A little dish soap and the beads seated with about 12 - 15 psi. 

Didn't appreciate quite how loooooong that cage is on the GX rear derailleur. That thing looks a little risky sticking down that far, but we'll see.

Looks like great fun. Now if it would just... stop... raining.


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

Yes. I went tubeless on my 2017 NTX about a week ago. Used the orange/red rim strips that came with it, Sun Ringle rim tape, orange sealant. Seated one bead, had kind of a challenge getting the other bead to seat (you need a big rush of air) but in 6 days they haven't lost any air. These 4.8 Minions are really big. I haven't been able to play with air pressure yet but I have them at 8 psi. Looks like they are going to work well tubeless.


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Built this for my GF. Tubeless, Carbon BD Fork (not pictured) Carbon bars and seat post, All titanium bolts, Ashima Ai2 rotors, Charge Knife seat with Ti rails, Salsa clamp.


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## justin70 (Sep 17, 2007)

Those salsa flip locks are the best


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## oobaa47 (Sep 14, 2016)

robc, how much sealant in each tire? I'm going with a very similar set up (sun ringle 80mm tape, orange sealant), I'm just using green duct tape as a rim strip instead of the sun ringle rim strip.....


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## oobaa47 (Sep 14, 2016)

bcriverjunky, what did you use for the rim strips?


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

oobaa47 said:


> bcriverjunky, what did you use for the rim strips?


Purple duct tape, Zip Tape and Stans. Must use a tube to seat the bead with these tires.


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

4 Oz per wheel. First fat tires I've done but it seems most folks use 2-4 0z.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

tonyride1 said:


> ^ Ditto :thumbsup:


 The stock FSA headset of the Night Train & Sturgis has the following SHIS Codes:

1) Top - ZS44/28.6
2) Bottom - ZS56/40

For the Hope pick n mix headset the Top & Bottom is equivalent to Type 2 & Type E respectively.



scottspark60 said:


> May I ask you guys to those who has already replaced the stock headset of their Night Train or Sturgis - may I know what equivalent Chris King or Hope headset did you use? I am planning to replace my stock black headset to blue.
> 
> Thanks for your reply.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Sharing here a photo of my Sturgis Bullet before I replace the crank, chain and cassette this week. It's still gonna be 1x10 but it'll be a black stealth look. After more than 3 months - the tubeless conversion - using 2 layers of 3M tough duct tape, stans valve and stans sealant is still working great!

I'll post an updated photo once the black stealth look is done.

Thanks for viewing and cheers.


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

I converted my NTX to tubeless with the stock tires and stock rim strips. I just left the black ones on, since they are Sun Ringle. 

Procedure was pretty easy. 

1. Cleaned rim and rim strip with 90% isopropyl alcohol and a clean cloth. 
2. Installed Sun Ringle 78mm rim tape. (I like this a lot better than Gorilla tape. It's lighter and is like packing tape, so it's not going to absorb the sealant.)
3. Installed Stan's 35mm valve stems. 
4. Now this was the tricky part with the Minions. I had to mount one side of the tire completely on the bead, pushing it onto the lip of the rim with my thumbs. Then, I carefully put the other bead on without breaking the first side. This was tricky and took me several tries. It took a lot of air to inflate these, and for one of the tires I had to tie on a rope. I'd seen others use a rachet strap that would probably work better, but I don't have one. 
5. Once beads were seated, it was easy. I just added my homebrew sealant of 1 T liquid latex and 1 oz windshield washer fluid mixture. I added 3 oz per tire and it sealed right up. 

One thing I noted is the Maxxis tubes that were in the tires did not seem anywhere near as heavy as the Surly tubes I have seen. I don't have a scale, so I could be dreaming, but that was my impression. 

Bike accelerates notably quicker now. The whole bike feels lighter, but not 3 pounds lighter.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

scottspark60 said:


> Sharing here a photo of my Sturgis Bullet...
> View attachment 1102847


Nice, I wanted the orange but couldn't get it with the bluto when I bought mine (white). What is the fender you have mounted to the Bluto and does the crown not hit it?


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

TheNormsk said:


> Nice, I wanted the orange but couldn't get it with the bluto when I bought mine (white). What is the fender you have mounted to the Bluto and does the crown not hit it?


It's a Mucky Nutz fat bike front fender - USD19 from ebay. It's installed under the crown as it has very little clearance and sometimes rubbing the tires if installed in the fork bridge/ arch.


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## oobaa47 (Sep 14, 2016)

Ok, tubeless conversion complete. She tips the scales at 31.2 lbs. It's a size large. I lost about 1.8 lbs. As was stated above, tubes didn't seam as burly as I suspected. Set up was a breeze until trying to seat the second bead. A strap had to be used, placed around the middle of the tire, after trying do it numerous ways. Used green duct tape, sun ringle 78mm tape, stans valves, and orange sealant. So far so good......just need to hit the trail to see how it feels.......


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

*2017 NTX crank spindle update*

Very happy with the bike except for the super wide 233mm Q factor and chain line of 78mm which causes the chain to drop 3 gears with a 1/2 back pedal. I was aware of the back pedal issue with many 1X11 set ups but unprepared for this and unfortunately bikesdirect doesn't publish Q factor/chainline numbers.
When I emailed bikedirect I was told that bikes up to $6000 have this issue except when I tested a 2017 Farley 7 (RaceFace Aefect crank) it had zero back pedal issues and a great chainline.

So I did some measuring and ordered up a 170mm spindle kit from Jenson and the results were fantastic. Chainline is even at about the 5th cog. No back pedal issues, 1/4" plus gap from chain to the 4.8 Maxxis and plenty of clearance at the chainstays. Q factor is 20mm less, chainline is now 68mm with no chance of heel strikes on the chainstay. The GX drive train shifted well before this but even better now and really quiet in the granny gear. Some people aren't going to mind the wide Q factor but at 5'7" my knees weren't too happy about it.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

That's great!

My 15mos old SRAM X5 crank is waiting to be replaced with RF Turbine Cinch 170 spindle n 28T Wolftooth. I'm just waiting for the RF Cinch BSA BB cup tool to be delivered.


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

Mine has a 197mm rear hub so that's why they spec'd a 190 mm spindle. Other manufacturers are also doing it to allow 5" tires but in some cases you can still run the 170 spindle without issues.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Hi Everybody. I bought the 29er wheelset from bikes direct for my Night train and have decided to sell it. Does anyone know if it is compatible with other fatbikes with the same spacing? It came with some spacers that fit into the frame on either side of the hub so it leads me to believe the 29er wheelset is 190mm spacing. On a side note, if anyone is interested, PM me.


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

PM sent... they should work with any 150/197mm frame out there.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Running a 1X on a Night Train and Sturgis using a crank for 170 rear spacing frame will have no problem. My present set up on my Sturgis is 1X using Sram X5 crank. But a 2X setup with a crank for 170 rear spacing will have no chain to tire clearance when the chain is on the lowest gear ( largest cog).


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## no sweat (Aug 21, 2014)

FWIW, the stock 2 x 11 drivetrain (RF turbine 24-34 + Sram 10-42) on my Night Train Bullet has no tendency to misplace the chain when back pedaling (as long as not cross chained). So that motivation for a shorter spindle (thankfully) doesn't exist with the 2x. The q factor is about a 1/4 mile, but I hope anyone buying this type of bike expects that (it doesn't bother me at all).


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

scottspark60 said:


> Running a 1X on a Night Train and Sturgis using a crank for 170 rear spacing frame will have no problem. My present set up on my Sturgis is 1X using Sram X5 crank. But a 2X setup with a crank for 170 rear spacing will have no chain to tire clearance when the chain is on the lowest gear ( largest cog).


by the way, i forgot to mention that i'm using 82mm surly rolling darryl rims. if it's 90 or 100mm rims - i think there will be no chain to tire clearance on my jumbo jim 4.8.

and the 82mm rims is just right for my needs😉


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

I'm looking for some Crankset advice. I have the Sturgis Bullet with Sammox 2x Crankset. I'm running Bud / Lou 4.8" tires on 90mm tubeless rims. I absolutely cannot stand the cheap SRAM shifters that come on this bike. I have to push like hell to move the front derailleur (unlike my other bikes with higher end SRAM or Shimano). I'm thinking of going 1x. However if I do this, I'd probably go XT 11 speed 11-46 cassette, and maybe a 26 or 28 Chainring. This would require using the smaller mount on a crank (I don't think the outer bolts allow under 30t ring. 

Here's where it gets complicated - I'd like to go to a narrower Q factor. I realize 170 space cranks spacing would be pushing it with nearly 5" tires.

Does anybody know what cranks might work? Anything cheaper than the Cinch? Will I be stuck using a 190 / 197 purpose crankset or are there 170s that wold work? 
My concern is throwing the chain into the tire if I mount on the smaller diameter bolts of a crank (I think the Cinch is the only crank that would allow to space a 26 tooth ring out?)


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Fo 1x, a direct mount crank like The Aeffect for 170 rear end with a flipped ring should give you what you're looking for.

There's no way you can get a 2x and a 170 spaced crank to work.



ztbishop said:


> I'm looking for some Crankset advice. I have the Sturgis Bullet with Sammox 2x Crankset. I'm running Bud / Lou 4.8" tires on 90mm tubeless rims. I absolutely cannot stand the cheap SRAM shifters that come on this bike. I have to push like hell to move the front derailleur (unlike my other bikes with higher end SRAM or Shimano). I'm thinking of going 1x. However if I do this, I'd probably go XT 11 speed 11-46 cassette, and maybe a 26 or 28 Chainring. This would require using the smaller mount on a crank (I don't think the outer bolts allow under 30t ring.
> 
> Here's where it gets complicated - I'd like to go to a narrower Q factor. I realize 170 space cranks spacing would be pushing it with nearly 5" tires.
> 
> ...


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

My Sturgis has hit the dirt twice (not even hard, both times just a lay over) and twice I've bent the derailleur hanger. Does anyone know if the one for the older Sturgis/Nightrain ( Derailleur Hanger #416 ) will fit?


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

KTMNealio said:


> My Sturgis has hit the dirt twice (not even hard, both times just a lay over) and twice I've bent the derailleur hanger. Does anyone know if the one for the older Sturgis/Nightrain ( Derailleur Hanger #416 ) will fit?


Bummer, I have the 2017 NTX with GX 1X11 so I'm not sure if mine has the same hanger. I read through most of this thread before buying and I thought they had finally come up with a stronger hanger. I'm super careful with mine, even when I lean it up against something. I would contact bikesdirect and see what they have to say.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

robc in wi said:


> Bummer, I have the 2017 NTX with GX 1X11 so I'm not sure if mine has the same hanger. I read through most of this thread before buying and I thought they had finally come up with a stronger hanger. I'm super careful with mine, even when I lean it up against something. I would contact bikesdirect and see what they have to say.


Yea we have the same frame. I contacted BD and they told me how to buy a new one. Which I did, but $20 every time my bike touches the dirt is expensive. $40 in hangers in the last month.
For comparison I've yardsaled my old bike probably a hundred times over the years and its on the original derailleur hanger. Its very slightly bent, but it takes more than a mouse fart to bend it like this Motobecane one.


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

It's surprising that they still have such a weak hanger given that there's been a couple of revisions. Guess I'll have to start carrying my spare hanger on rides. I'm not really an aggressive rider but I've never broken or bent a hanger on my 2 other mtbs going back 15 years.


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## lalahg (Nov 9, 2015)

I just bought a Pilo D547 and proceeded to bend it on my first ride. It did bend back easily and unlike the stock hanger it didn't crack when being straightened. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Mr. Long (Nov 17, 2016)

My wife recently surprised me with a gray 2017 NTX (she had a local BD Cycle Spectrum shop assemble it). However, she had no idea that an extra hangar and red rim strip were included in the box and should have been given to her.

First thing that caught me eye on the bike was the rediculously long rear derailleur(definitely going to change that out). I've had an XTR shorty on my old 26er for years, and forgot that long cages still existed.
First ride on an intermediate trail, the hangar bent. I don't even remember hitting anything. And when I bent it back into place, it cracked. Luckily I made it out of the woods without the hangar falling apart.
Brought the bike back to the shop, and asked for the spare hangar and rim strip. They couldn't find them.
Had to wait four days for them to get new hangars from BD, and picked the bike up the day before our fat tire festival. At least they gave me an extra.
The hangars appear to be cheap pot metal that bend/crack easily. I understand that you want a weak link to protect the derailleur, but I would pay good money for a machined piece that was a little more robust.

P.S. I LOVE THIS FREAKING BIKE!!


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## GRod (Sep 14, 2016)

*Lubing front hub*

Got some bad squeaking coming from my front hub, sure it needs lube but can't get end caps off. Already scratched by plyers and vice. I have a 2016 Sturgis NX sorry for the interruption but I need some help


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

GRod said:


> Got some bad squeaking coming from my front hub, sure it needs lube but can't get end caps off. Already scratched by plyers and vice. I have a 2016 Sturgis NX sorry for the interruption but I need some help


I've always just pried the endcaps off by putting the thru axle in a few inches and lever it off - never needed tools. I chased down a squeak onec on the front wheel - thought it was bearings - it was the tube squeaking against the inside of the tire (pre tubeless days). Drove me nuts.

Good luck.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Mr. Long said:


> The hangars appear to be cheap pot metal that bend/crack easily.


They're cast aluminum, which tends to be relatively weak and definitely brittle.



> I understand that you want a weak link to protect the derailleur, but I would pay good money for a machined piece that was a little more robust.


Go to Motobecane Derailleur Hangers. The machined hanger you want is at the bottom of the page, #416.


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## Mr. Long (Nov 17, 2016)

Bnystrom said:


> They're cast aluminum, which tends to be relatively weak and definitely brittle.
> 
> Go to Motobecane Derailleur Hangers. The machined hanger you want is at the bottom of the page, #416.


You,sir, are awesome. :thumbsup:
Thanks!


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## GRod (Sep 14, 2016)

Thank You Watermonkey


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## aflage (Nov 17, 2016)

Hi everyone,

First time poster here, but I've been lurking through most of the pages of this thread. Thanks for all the great information! I am SO close to pulling the trigger on a NTB, but my biggest hold-ups are the dreaded hub problems and the derailleur hanger issues that seem far too common. Thanks to Watermonkey for locating this site for a machined hanger--I hope these perform much better than the stock versions. 

Regarding the hub issues--I see that people are using Loctite to bandaid the issue, but I'm not crazy about that being a permanent fix. Pardon my stupidity, but is this an issue with the cheap hub, or does it have to do with frame rigidity? If I have to babysit this one with Loctite for a year or so and then buy a new hub, I can live with that as long as an upgraded hub doesn't also continue to have issues.

Thanks for any input!


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## no sweat (Aug 21, 2014)

aflage said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First time poster here, but I've been lurking through most of the pages of this thread. Thanks for all the great information! I am SO close to pulling the trigger on a NTB, but my biggest hold-ups are the dreaded hub problems and the derailleur hanger issues that seem far too common. Thanks to Watermonkey for locating this site for a machined hanger--I hope these perform much better than the stock versions.
> 
> ...


The hub is fine. My NTB (delivered 3 wks ago) was loctited as delivered. It seemed a little noisy to me, so I disassembled, inspected (no issues), lubed the freewheel mechanism a little better, threw it back together and it's been quieter since.

Loctite is clearly a good idea. However as long as the wheel is properly installed, thru axle properly tightened, I can't see how it could loosen while in the bike.

The hubs aren't the high point of the build, but they seem adequate.

I'm very pleased with the bike.


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## aflage (Nov 17, 2016)

no sweat said:


> The hub is fine. My NTB (delivered 3 wks ago) was loctited as delivered. It seemed a little noisy to me, so I disassembled, inspected (no issues), lubed the freewheel mechanism a little better, threw it back together and it's been quieter since.
> 
> Loctite is clearly a good idea. However as long as the wheel is properly installed, thru axle properly tightened, I can't see how it could loosen while in the bike.
> 
> ...


Great, thanks for the info!


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

I've got two Sturgis... one I've been running almost full time since Oct. 2014, straight through all four seasons. certainly purchase a spare hanger, but that should be common sense with any bike, I have not had the "bike just tipped over and it bent" issue. and i've done a few nice slaps down on ice beaches, and during the Summer, the Novetecs have served me well. although I am aware of the concerns. many other hubs this size have had issues too. Specialized was dealing with theirs. I know have 29+ wheelset, two proper fatbike wheelsets and just added a 27.5 + wheelset... no regrets...


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## aflage (Nov 17, 2016)

twright205 said:


> I've got two Sturgis... one I've been running almost full time since Oct. 2014, straight through all four seasons. certainly purchase a spare hanger, but that should be common sense with any bike, I have not had the "bike just tipped over and it bent" issue. and i've done a few nice slaps down on ice beaches, and during the Summer, the Novetecs have served me well. although I am aware of the concerns. many other hubs this size have had issues too. Specialized was dealing with theirs. I know have 29+ wheelset, two proper fatbike wheelsets and just added a 27.5 + wheelset... no regrets...


Thanks for the reassurance. I don't mind buying additional wheels/tires in the future, I'd just be irritated if the Novatecs grenaded on me within my first couple months. Sounds like this shouldn't be the case if proper precautions are taken. Thanks for your update!


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## strengthxcycle (Dec 15, 2012)

aflage said:


> Thanks for the reassurance. I don't mind buying additional wheels/tires in the future, I'd just be irritated if the Novatecs grenaded on me within my first couple months. Sounds like this shouldn't be the case if proper precautions are taken. Thanks for your update!


Ive hade my night train for over a year now and I ride it to work a lot, and on the soggy days and of course snow... I have never touched the hub and it's been awesome. I really would worry about the hub. Or anything else. Everyone I know with a specialized fat boy has had hub probs. And I have three friends with motobecane night trains not one of us has had a problem. The derailleur hanger on mine broke once after taking a good hit, but you know what, it saved my derailleur. I'll take it!


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## aflage (Nov 17, 2016)

strengthxcycle said:


> Ive hade my night train for over a year now and I ride it to work a lot, and on the soggy days and of course snow... I have never touched the hub and it's been awesome. I really would worry about the hub. Or anything else. Everyone I know with a specialized fat boy has had hub probs. And I have three friends with motobecane night trains not one of us has had a problem. The derailleur hanger on mine broke once after taking a good hit, but you know what, it saved my derailleur. I'll take it!


Great, sounds like I need to pull the trigger! On a different note, does anyone know how bikes direct operates on black Friday /cyber Monday? I feel like I should wait for that since it's only a few days away, but I don't know if I should expect any different prices.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

FWIW, I've had my Sturgis Bullet for almost 2 years not and I've never had any problems with the Novatec hub. I do inspect everything to make sure every nut is nice and tight as the nut on the non-drive side can come loose. However, a buddy of mine with a Night Train have had problems, got it fixed, and just a couple of weeks ago had it fail on him. Navatec is sending him replacement parts now but he's losing confidence in it. After my last ride a few days ago I was having some shifting and rear brake issues. The rear brake would be working fine one minute and the next I'll have the lever all the way to the grip and barely slowed down. I thought maybe I got some air in the system. With shifting I thought maybe I bent the derailleur hanger. Yesterday when I was inspecting it I realized that the 12mm thru-axel was loose. After tightening it up all the shifting and braking issues went away. So check the rear axel from time to time also.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

So after riding this bike hard for almost 2 years, I finally pulled it all apart and plan on upgrading some parts and replacing the Bluto. BTW, I did just sell the fork for almost $300 and will replace with a rigid carbon. I still have the original 26 x 80mm wheels that came with the bike, but they will be taking a back seat this season. The plan is to mount up my 27.5 carbon hoops (50mm) with a Hodag 3.8 front and either the same out back or an Origin8 Tsunami 3.5 in the rear. Will also be mounting 750mm Haven bars and a 70mm stem, both oversized. The original Snowshoe tires will be soon studded and used only for extreme ice and snow conditions. Will post up some before and after shots along with a ride report! ;D


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I have had my Night Train Bullet Ti for over a year and had the rear hub start snapping and popping in a few months, so I took it apart, cleaned it, and used Slick Honey inside. Now it's nice and smooth again and no more unnerving sounds. I also added the Loctite to the non-drive side but it wasn't an issue, just a preventative measure. 

Incidentally, I swapped to the SRAM MX3 11-42 and LOVE IT! It's well worth the $70. I did not need a different B-screw but did swap the front 36t for a 32t and was able to leave the chain length alone.


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

neons97 said:


> Fo 1x, a direct mount crank like The Aeffect for 170 rear end with a flipped ring should give you what you're looking for.
> 
> There's no way you can get a 2x and a 170 spaced crank to work.


Thanks - Have you or anyone on here ran this crank or a 170 spaced crank without your heals hitting the frame?


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

I have swapped to a 170mm spindle for my 2017 NX Cinch crankset and I'm not close to hitting the chainstay. I currently use Candy pedals and wear size 9 shoes. I posted pictures on the previous page of this forum with my shoe in the pedal for reference.


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## happylandings (Apr 30, 2009)

Hello, I need to purchase another pair of the front hub adapter caps for my Sturgis as I seem to have misplaced them while the bike was apart for cleaning. I'm wondering if anyone has found them anywhere. I've sent an email to Bikes Direct but I thought I'd ask here as well just in case they don't sell them. Thanks


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

robc in wi said:


> I have swapped to a 170mm spindle for my 2017 NX Cinch crankset and I'm not close to hitting the chainstay. I currently use Candy pedals and wear size 9 shoes. I posted pictures on the previous page of this forum with my shoe in the pedal for reference.


Thanks so much, I don't know how I missed that! 
I've got the crank on the way, with an XT 11 speed 11-46 Cassette. I can already feel the sweet relief of taking the Q-factor in.

Have you seen a way of installing a bash guard with this setup? The frame doesn't have the necessary mounts and the cinch crank has no chainring bolts, so I'm thinking it probably just isn't possible. At least not using the 1x setup on this bike. I was a bit concerned about a chain-guide too, but it's re-assuring to see this fixed the chain line for you.


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## zeno303 (Nov 22, 2016)

*Motobecane Night Train Express Mods to 29.5 lbs*

Got my Night Train Express a couple of months ago & immediately starting doing some mods. Out of the box my 19" weighed 32lbs 10 Oz w/o pedals. Looked good after initial assembly, which was pretty easy if you are used to doing your own work. My only major complaint is that the Maxxis Minion tires are not tubeless ready, which was a bit of a surprise. I go tubeless whenever possible. 
After a couple of test rides, Job One was painfully obvious. The 60 TPI tubed Maxxis Minions roll like bricks. (if you read Maxxis reviews on the "Bike Rolling Resistance" web site that's not surprising.) It was so bad I thought about returning the bike until I realized problem was the tires, Even at high PSI they rolled like pigs. 
1) I replaced the Maxxis with Schwalbe Jumbo Jim Snake Skin 4.80s (actual 4.5) tubeless with Orange Seal. I got the Jumbo Jims from UK for about $85 each. They are about 350 grams lighter per tire & of course I got rid of the tubes too. 
With the Jumbo Jims its really a completely different bike. I can't stress that enough. Much more lively, much easier pedaling & faster acceleration. With these tires, my average MPH over 20 miles of mixed non technical rolling terrain is only a little more than on my CX bike. Maybe .5 mph
Here in Colorado I ride mostly hard pack & relatively shallow or packed snow, which the 4.8 Schwalbes are great on. If I find I really need knobbier tires for deep snow, I'll probably get an extra set of 45 North VanHelgas, which I read roll well for knobbys
Weights are weight of replacement parts.
2) I replaced the SRAM GX stock trigger shifter with a SRAM Grip Shift NX which I prefer for a lot of reasons, weigh a little less and work phenomenally well with 11 speeds. $30
3) Replaced stock bars with Beiou carbon, Chinese import on Amazon, 175 gr, $35.00
4) Replaced seat post with a Niner carbon post - 220 gr $30 close out from Jenson
5. Replaced heavy WTB seat with Fabric Scoop Line race TI 230gr $65 from Pro Bike Kit UK
6. Crank Bros Egg Beater Pedals I already had - 300gr

Now with pedals & cages, bike weighs about 29.5 lbs, which IMO is very good for an aluminum framed fat bike. Most likely additional mod that would make a real difference would be carbon rim wheels, but that's a lot of $. Maybe if the Novatech hubs eventually crap out. 
Overall, I'm very pleased with the result. A lot of bang for not that much $.


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## aflage (Nov 17, 2016)

Great looking bike! 

I feel like an idiot for overlooking this, but your comment made me realize that the Maxxis tires included are not the tubeless ready version. Is it at all possible to run these tubeless? Or am I going to need new tires right off the bat if I want tubeless?


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## pelts79 (Feb 29, 2008)

zeno303 said:


> Got my Night Train Express a couple of months ago & immediately starting doing some mods. Out of the box my 19" weighed 32lbs 10 Oz w/o pedals. Looked good after initial assembly, which was pretty easy if you are used to doing your own work. My only major complaint is that the Maxxis Minion tires are not tubeless ready, which was a bit of a surprise. I go tubeless whenever possible.
> After a couple of test rides, Job One was painfully obvious. The 60 TPI tubed Maxxis Minions roll like bricks. (if you read Maxxis reviews on the "Bike Rolling Resistance" web site that's not surprising.) It was so bad I thought about returning the bike until I realized problem was the tires, Even at high PSI they rolled like pigs.
> 1) I replaced the Maxxis with Schwalbe Jumbo Jim Snake Skin 4.80s (actual 4.5) tubeless with Orange Seal. I got the Jumbo Jims from UK for about $85 each. They are about 350 grams lighter per tire & of course I got rid of the tubes too.
> With the Jumbo Jims its really a completely different bike. I can't stress that enough. Much more lively, much easier pedaling & faster acceleration. With these tires, my average MPH over 20 miles of mixed non technical rolling terrain is only a little more than on my CX bike. Maybe .5 mph
> ...


Sweet looking ride, well done!


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## zeno303 (Nov 22, 2016)

(deleted)


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## zeno303 (Nov 22, 2016)

You could try, but in my experience, non tubeless tires will be much harder to seat on the tubeless rims & are likely to leak sealant when you try. They are also much more likely to burp & deflate at low PSI. Beyond that, as I said, I think these Maxxis tires are just dogs compared to others. You'd be much better off getting tubeless ready newer models from Schwalbe, Specialized, Trek, Surly, Vee Tire or 45 North. They aren't cheap, but IMO they're the best investment you can make to lighten the bike and lower rolling resistance. Check out the fat bike tire tests on bicyclerollingresistance.com & read reviews on the Fat Bike web sites.


aflage said:


> Great looking bike!
> 
> I feel like an idiot for overlooking this, but your comment made me realize that the Maxxis tires included are not the tubeless ready version. Is it at all possible to run these tubeless? Or am I going to need new tires right off the bat if I want tubeless?


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## oobaa47 (Sep 14, 2016)

Converted stock maxxis tires to tubeless with no issues.......3 plus weeks and they're holding air just fine.......it was difficult seating the second bead however.........these tires are big and burly with huge knobs.......I'll sacrifice rolling resistance for the incredible traction that these tires provide......


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## aflage (Nov 17, 2016)

Thanks for the info. I figured that would be the case. I'm looking at the NTB myself and have no issues buying another set of better tires. I'll probably at least give the minions a shot before I kick them to the curb.


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## no sweat (Aug 21, 2014)

I'm on my first fat bike and my first set of fat tires... but what the hell... I think the Minions are awesome. For me it's about grip and ability to absorb rough terrain (and boy, do they ever). When I'm concerned with rolling resistance on hardpack or asphalt, I take a different bike!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

After 2 seasons I finally decided to replace the Bluto on my Sturgis Bullet with a rigid Carver Popeye carbon fork. I did not want the carbon steerer of the BD fork, and the weight alone of the BD fork makes me nervous, so I opted for the Carver. It seems to be right in the sweet spot lengthwise (490mm), with a HTA = 68* and bottom bracket at 12-5/8". If it were a tad shorter, steering would be perfect at "normal" speeds (the BD fork is 480mm), but then the bottom bracket would be too low for me (yes, it's a very small difference and maybe I could get used to it, but I like rock crawling). As you go faster, though, the slack steering geometry works better. The Framed and Alaskan carbon forks are even shorter. Probably too short for the Sturgis. The light weight front will take some getting used to - it makes you notice how heavy the back is. Since I usually ride rigid anyway I was happy to have the precision of the rigid fork instead of the vague, detached feeling of the Bluto - even on frozen leaves this morning. It pedals better now as well.

-F


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

My 2017 NTX is my first fat bike as well and while I agree that the Minions are heavy and not great rollers, they work great tubeless (Mulfut tape and Orange sealant) and traction is impressive. Planning on trying Jumbo Jim's for lighter weight/summer riding with the Minions for the snow. I have run 7 psi on the trails with no issues, not sure why the poster above says these are not the tubeless ready version, lots of folks running them tubeless.


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## zeno303 (Nov 22, 2016)

Don't underestimate the Jumbo Jim's ability to grip or climb. At lower PSI, the big side nobs come into play. I haven't found any limitations on rocky terrain. But if you ride trails with mud, tree roots etc, YMMV. For a review by a Swede whom rode them in winter see https://fat-bike.com/2015/05/jumbo-jim-4-8
The thing about tire rolling resistance is that, unlike air resistance which increases with speed, tire rolling resistance comes into play at full strength right away, even at low speeds. Climbing a 7% grade at 8 MPH, your tire choice can be costing you an extra 20-30 watts. Fit amateur riders can sustain 100-150 watts max. Do the math. 
See bicyclerollingresistance.com to learn more


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## aflage (Nov 17, 2016)

robc in wi said:


> My 2017 NTX is my first fat bike as well and while I agree that the Minions are heavy and not great rollers, they work great tubeless (Mulfut tape and Orange sealant) and traction is impressive. Planning on trying Jumbo Jim's for lighter weight/summer riding with the Minions for the snow. I have run 7 psi on the trails with no issues, not sure why the poster above says these are not the tubeless ready version, lots of folks running them tubeless.


Thanks for the info. The reason I mentioned that tubeless bit is because they sell a minion that is labeled EXO/Tubeless ready, and a version that is not. I figured people were still doing it with the stock tire, but thank you for the clarification.


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

Well, I stand corrected after doing a little research. The 60 tpi Minions are not "tubeless ready" but have worked out fine for me. Zero sealant leakage and lost maybe 1 psi over a 3 week period. They came on the bike so I will use them for now.


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## Mr. Long (Nov 17, 2016)

So last Friday, I decided to go tubeless with the stock NTX Mulefut/Minion combo as follows:
Camo duct tape rim strip, followed by clear packing tape to cover the sticky, followed by the Mulefut tubeless tape and 4 oz of Stan's.
The front tire sealed up great and held 20psi until yesterday, when I aired it down to 10 to take it for a test ride.

The rear wheel is still sucking the big one.
I followed the same procedure, but the rim was pissing through the join line. The forums said that my tape job was bad, so I tore it apart, cleaned everything and redid it, being as careful as possible. Same freaking result!
Out of frustration, I decided to leave my tape job in place and went the cling wrap route(7 wraps, lots of soapy water, etc)
The rim join finally stopped leaking...but now the sidewalls are pissing nonstop. 
I went for a test ride around the neighborhood, and some of the leaks stopped. But the sidewalls are weeping all over the place. And now my front tire is weeping. 
I absolutely love these Minions for grip, but it appears that mine aren't playing well for tubeless.

Here's a picture of the pissing sidewall.
https://flic.kr/p/NhKyeU


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

Mr. Long said:


> So last Friday, I decided to go tubeless with the stock NTX Mulefut/Minion combo as follows:
> Camo duct tape rim strip, followed by clear packing tape to cover the sticky, followed by the Mulefut tubeless tape and 4 oz of Stan's.
> The front tire sealed up great and held 20psi until yesterday, when I aired it down to 10 to take it for a test ride.
> 
> ...


I would scrap the camo tape and use the Sun ringle rim strips that came with your bike and the Sun Ringle 80mm tape that is recommended. Both of my wheels and Minions have not shown even a spot of sealant and I am a novice at tubeless conversions. I have dropped less than 1 psi in weeks and have 3 rides at 7 psi.


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## aflage (Nov 17, 2016)

I have a dilemma I need some help with. I have FINALLY convinced myself to buy a Fattie, and after much research I settled on the night train bullet (aluminum). I just tried to order today, and its out of stock. Do I step up and hit the titanium for another 500? Or do I drop back to Sturgis bullet at 1500? Any suggestions ?


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

aflage said:


> I have a dilemma I need some help with. I have FINALLY convinced myself to buy a Fattie, and after much research I settled on the night train bullet (aluminum). I just tried to order today, and its out of stock. Do I step up and hit the titanium for another 500? Or do I drop back to Sturgis bullet at 1500? Any suggestions ?


I'd go with Sturgis. I have the Sturgis bullet and a buddy of mine has the Night Train. The only difference between the two are the components. For less than $500 I'm able to upgrade the components to pretty much match the NT.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

+1 on the Sturgis👍

what i did back in May 2015 was purchased the orange Sturgis frameset (with Bluto) and wheelset from BD. then i bought the other parts that i like based on my orange color scheme and installed the other stock parts that i have just to keep it running. now i have upgraded the weinmann rims to Surly Rolling Darryl and the SS silver spokes to black Pillar spokes. also changed the stock snowshoe 4.7 72tpi tires to bulldozer 4.7 and now to jumbo jim liteskin 4.8 tubeless set up.

i'm very happy with my Sturgis bullet and next on the upgrade is going more lighter by changing the sram x5 crank with raceface turbine cinch with wolftooth 28T oval cranks.

on my wishlist is the lighter dt swiss br710 rims and hope fatsno pro 4 hubs😉


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## oobaa47 (Sep 14, 2016)

To me, the best bang for you buck is the NTX. For another $400 more than the sturgis, you get a carbon fork, race face turbine cinch cranks, GX trigger shifters, SRAM guide hydro brakes, and a 1x11 drivetrain with a 11-42 cassette. That's quite a significant upgrade in components......


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

I totally agree. The NTX component upgrades and the 1x11 work flawlessly and the carbon fork weighs 2 lbs less than the stock fork and 3 lbs less than the Bluto. Plus it's in stock and shipping.


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

Shopping for my first fattie after demo'ing Salsa Mukluk twice. Any thoughts on this BD deal for $1,199.95? I went into my go-to local bike shop and REALLY loved the new Salsa Mukluk NX1 but brakes and shifting product level are lacking. My brother loves his 1x Fatboy so I'm thinking I would like 1x of 30 front 11-42t rear. The BD deal below has great brakes and other components even tho it is 2x. BD prices and components are amazing. Just worried of pulling the trigger without test ride for fit and ride feel. Thanks in advance for advice.

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/fat-bikes-nighttrain-fatbike-sale.htm

Salsa Mukluk NX1 details for reference: MUKLUK NX1 | Bikes | Salsa Cycles


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

I don't know, I'm biased but $300 more gets you a GX drive train, a much better crankset and a carbon fork. Look at the 2017 Night Train Express for $1499. Very happy with mine.
Also, they are actually in stock where many of the bikesdirect models are pre-orders.


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

How is it possible to tell what is in stock and available for purchase? Where can one place a pre-order? Nice bikes. Not so nice website...


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

RagerXS said:


> How is it possible to tell what is in stock and available for purchase? Where can one place a pre-order? Nice bikes. Not so nice website...


Look at the large yellow highlighted paragraph below the pictures. That's where it will either say that that model is in stock and shipping or whether you have to pre-order. The 2017 Night Train Express's (1X11 w/carbon fork) are sold out (and not even pictured any more) but both the Night Train and Night train LTD are in stock and shipping. I had mine 5 business days after ordering. If you are pre-ordering just pick the size from the drop down menu and add it to your cart. I believe that they give you an approximate ship date during the pre-order process.


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

robc in wi said:


> Look at the large yellow highlighted paragraph below the pictures. That's where it will either say that that model is in stock and shipping or whether you have to pre-order. The 2017 Night Train Express's (1X11 w/carbon fork) are sold out (and not even pictured any more) but both the Night Train and Night train LTD are in stock and shipping. I had mine 5 business days after ordering. If you are pre-ordering just pick the size from the drop down menu and add it to your cart. I believe that they give you an approximate ship date during the pre-order process.


That is what I thought, except that was not the case for the Sturgis frames with Bluto fork - it was showing nearly all of the colors available but stripping them all out of the cart after the fact. I emailed BD, received no response at all, but now see that the list of available colors/sizes has been updated. Major PITA.

I own a Boris I bought from them and the customer service at that time was excellent. Not so much this time around.


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

Sorry, I didn't realize that you had bought from them before. After reading much of this sub forum I decided to go with the 2017 NTX because even though it was more than I wanted to spend I just didn't want to sit on my hands for months waiting for a bike I had already paid for. Very happy with it so far, it's sold out now. Haven't had to deal with their customer service other than an email question which they replied to the next day.


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

robc in wi said:


> Sorry, I didn't realize that you had bought from them before. After reading much of this sub forum I decided to go with the 2017 NTX because even though it was more than I wanted to spend I just didn't want to sit on my hands for months waiting for a bike I had already paid for. Very happy with it so far, it's sold out now. Haven't had to deal with their customer service other than an email question which they replied to the next day.


No worries, robc. I like my Boris a lot but since it doesn't accept larger tires I snagged a Specialized Fatboy off Craigslist. Unfortunately, the Fatboy is an XL. But it was a killer deal and came with a lot of upgrades. I believe the Sturgis frame with Bluto is a bargain and I could move all the upgraded components over from the Fatboy and unload that frame/carbon fork for a large chunk of the cost. That would net me the correct size frame plus a bluto for short money, but I'm screwed because they are sold out. Patience is what I need now. I have something to ride, although neither are perfect for me. It's all good.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

I'll have a Sturgis in green under the Christmas tree this year. Pumped!


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

basso4735 said:


> I'll have a Sturgis in green under the Christmas tree this year. Pumped!


Nice -- congratulations! Just in time for the snow!


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## thisisbenji (Nov 13, 2010)

Latest photo of my slightly modified NightTrain.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

thisisbenji said:


> Latest photo of my slightly modified NightTrain.


That is a mean looking bike. What size is it? Looks like a Small.


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## thisisbenji (Nov 13, 2010)

Thanks and the size is in fact small.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

*29+ Testing*

I know it's snow season, but I decided now was the time to pick up some 29+ wheels for my Sturgis. These are the Framed Pro-X 29+ for 150/197 thru axles. They are actually pretty light, but they came with heavy tubes (presta tubes, but rims drilled for Schraeder(???)). They are probably not good candidates for tubeless in any form, though - the rims are quite deep. They are 47mm wide and came with 3" Chronicle tires. I just mocked them up as it's snowing right now and I just swapped Bud & Lou to my fat wheels. I'll give them the real test in the Spring, unless I get a bug to take them to Ray's Indoor MTB Park (which has a high probability). They are nearly the exact same diameter as Bud or Lou, but the fatties squish a bit more while riding, so these ride slightly higher. The bike feels like I am supposed to ride farther with the 29+ mounted - like it just wants to go.
btw - they could've made the chainstays ~1/2" or more shorter on these frames and still fit these no problem.

One potential problem I see is that the derailleur is really exposed when you put narrower tires on such a wide rear end. Hoping for the best.









-F


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Fleas- I'm looking forward to hearing more about this, as I am thinking of getting a 29+ wheelset for my Sturgis as well. Can you put up a photo of the rear wheel showing how much space is back there when you have a chance? 

Did you consider the 29+ wheelset from BD? I know the hub is 190, but they're $250 and I think good candidates for tubeless.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Built up the green Sturgis last night and took it out in a fresh 4" of snow today!


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## TavisB (Sep 8, 2005)

So how was it in the snow?


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## thisisbenji (Nov 13, 2010)

Snow Ride by Benji Reynolds, on Flickr

Snow Ride by Benji Reynolds, on Flickr

Snow Ride by Benji Reynolds, on Flickr

Made it out into some fresh snow with mine today.

It was particular awful today.

The snow was light and fluffy, the bike seemed to float on the snow just fine, but damn was it slippery. Usually I have no trouble going straight, but today every time the trail would be anything but 100% flat the damn bike would drift sideways down the hill. I did 6.4 miles w/ a 6.3 mph average like this (plus another 4.4 miles round trip to the trails), so I guess it wasn't too bad, but it was definitely a struggle going straight.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

TavisB said:


> So how was it in the snow?


Bit of a learning curve but too much fun. Need to dial in tire pressure though.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Boo Bear said:


> Fleas- I'm looking forward to hearing more about this, as I am thinking of getting a 29+ wheelset for my Sturgis as well. Can you put up a photo of the rear wheel showing how much space is back there when you have a chance?
> 
> Did you consider the 29+ wheelset from BD? I know the hub is 190, but they're $250 and I think good candidates for tubeless.


There is a ton of room in the back. The 29x3.0 Chronicles on 47mm rims are the same diameter as Bud or Lou with at least 1/2" from any frame tube. It'll be a little while before I can get a pic.

I am pretty sure the BD wheels are only 25mm wide. To me that is not compatible with 29+. The biggest I'd go on a 25mm rim is 29x2.5, which I have; but the 29x2.5 Minion is a well-constructed tire. If I want to try the huge 29x3.25 Miner or Crux I can do it on a 47mm rim, but I think they would flop all over on a 25mm rim.

-F


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

What have people used for chainstay protection with the derailleur housing running underneath? Can I just use the normal tube and zip tie method and wrap over the cable housing?


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

basso4735 said:


> What have people used for chainstay protection with the derailleur housing running underneath? Can I just use the normal tube and zip tie method and wrap over the cable housing?


That's what I use, old tube with zip ties. Cheap, quick, and effective.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

tonyride1 said:


> That's what I use, old tube with zip ties. Cheap, quick, and effective.


Cool - no issues with the housing being squeezed in there? Not planning to wrap super tight but just curious.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

So far so good. Doesn't need to be too tight.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Converting to tubeless tonight with the Mulefuts, wish me luck! Hopefully I can get these Maxxis Minions set with a floor pump or it will be a cold walk to the gas station.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

basso4735 said:


> Converting to tubeless tonight with the Mulefuts, wish me luck! Hopefully I can get these Maxxis Minions set with a floor pump or it will be a cold walk to the gas station.


Good luck. I had a hell of a time but my issues were not being able to remove the tires from the old rims and sealing the Mulefuts. I was trying to do it on the cheap by using Gorilla tape. I finally stopped messing around and got the Sun Ringle tubeless kit and it worked great. I do have an air compressor so that helped with seating the beads.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

tonyride1 said:


> Good luck. I had a hell of a time but my issues were not being able to remove the tires from the old rims and sealing the Mulefuts. I was trying to do it on the cheap by using Gorilla tape. I finally stopped messing around and got the Sun Ringle tubeless kit and it worked great. I do have an air compressor so that helped with seating the beads.


The Minions were tight but not so much that I couldn't get them off with my hands. I taped them with the sun ringle stuff last night and put the tube back in to seal the tape.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Fleas said:


> There is a ton of room in the back. The 29x3.0 Chronicles on 47mm rims are the same diameter as Bud or Lou with at least 1/2" from any frame tube. It'll be a little while before I can get a pic.
> 
> I am pretty sure the BD wheels are only 25mm wide. To me that is not compatible with 29+. The biggest I'd go on a 25mm rim is 29x2.5, which I have; but the 29x2.5 Minion is a well-constructed tire. If I want to try the huge 29x3.25 Miner or Crux I can do it on a 47mm rim, but I think they would flop all over on a 25mm rim.
> 
> -F


Yeah- it looks like they are 25mm rims, and I agree, not appropriate for a + tire.

That is weird. I bought a pair of the 29 WTB i25 wheels from BD a year ago when I bought my Sturgis, but I hated them on the bike, so they're just sitting in the garage now. They didn't have a + option at the time. But I just recently noticed they were selling 29+ wheelsets now, and I assumed they were using a different rim. But further inspection shows that it looks like they're just putting a + tire on the same i25 rim, which makes very little sense.

I'd definitely go with The House offering for $400 at this point if I were to do it.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

basso4735 said:


> The Minions were tight but not so much that I couldn't get them off with my hands. I taped them with the sun ringle stuff last night and put the tube back in to seal the tape.


Could only get the front to seat up, even had to use a ratchet strap. Could not get the second bead to set on the rear unfortunately. Tried at the gas station as well but no go there - their compressor isn't very strong. Minion seemed pretty floppy on the rim with one bead set, I think that is the issue.

Tips welcome...tube back in for now.


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

I had to use a friend's compressor. Have to remove the valve core, I rigged up a short plastic hose the fit over the valve stem, gave it a 100 psi shot and it popped the second bead almost instantaneously. His compressor was a small pancake style. It's all about a strong burst of air. Ran mine at 5 psi in the snow today, lost 0 psi since I rode a week ago. The Mulefut/Minion combo is great tubeless.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

basso4735 said:


> Could only get the front to seat up, even had to use a ratchet strap. Could not get the second bead to set on the rear unfortunately. Tried at the gas station as well but no go there - their compressor isn't very strong. Minion seemed pretty floppy on the rim with one bead set, I think that is the issue.
> 
> Tips welcome...tube back in for now.


Yeah, sounds like you need a high volume compressor. The compressor you used at the gas station limits the flow due to the chuck used to fill up a car tire so the flow rate is reduced. With my compressor I remove the valve core to eliminate any flow obstructions. Then I used the blower attachment with a rubber tip and put it right up against the now open valve, pull the trigger. You'll see the tire just fill up and keep it going until you hear the popping of the beads being seated. At the point stop immediately so you don't pop the tire. You can let all the air out if you want at that point and then you put the valve core back in and pump it up with a regular tire pump.


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

robc in wi said:


> I had to use a friend's compressor. Have to remove the valve core, I rigged up a short plastic hose the fit over the valve stem, gave it a 100 psi shot and it popped the second bead almost instantaneously. His compressor was a small pancake style. It's all about a strong burst of air. Ran mine at 5 psi in the snow today, lost 0 psi since I rode a week ago. The Mulefut/Minion combo is great tubeless.


I second the use of a compressor with the valve core removed. Also, soapy water or windex or similar will help a lot.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Oh, I forgot to mention that before you put the valve core back in you'll have to put Stans NoTube or which ever brand you want to use first.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Yeah no compressor here-guess a trip to the LBS is needed so they can pop it on. Just checked the front tire and it held at the same pressure all night, nice!


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

I f&@!ing did it!!! Dried the bead and rim and used the tire lever trick to pull the bead over as much as possible. Tire started to get very very tight and actually looked like it was sealed just off the rim edge. No suds! Not more than 2 pumps later with the floor pump and it was holding air. Took literally 10 minutes to set the bead vs 3 hours of nothing yesterday. 

Still can't believe it.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Way to go.


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## pjfatty (Dec 21, 2016)

*My new Motobecane Sturgis!*

Hi all, due to finding this forum while researching a fat bike to buy, I settled on a Motobecan Sturgis. It was delivered yesterday and quickly put it together and swapped out the stem, seat, seat post, handlebars, and grips. Also installed red Race Face pedals. Going to go tubeless soon. Just loving the bike. Looks and rides great. Did a beach run yesterday and it was so much fun. Here are couple of pics:


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> I know it's snow season, but I decided now was the time to pick up some 29+ wheels for my Sturgis. These are the Framed Pro-X 29+ for 150/197 thru axles. They are actually pretty light, but they came with heavy tubes (presta tubes, but rims drilled for Schraeder(???)). They are probably not good candidates for tubeless in any form, though - the rims are quite deep. They are 47mm wide and came with 3" Chronicle tires. I just mocked them up as it's snowing right now and I just swapped Bud & Lou to my fat wheels. I'll give them the real test in the Spring, unless I get a bug to take them to Ray's Indoor MTB Park (which has a high probability). They are nearly the exact same diameter as Bud or Lou, but the fatties squish a bit more while riding, so these ride slightly higher. The bike feels like I am supposed to ride farther with the 29+ mounted - like it just wants to go.
> btw - they could've made the chainstays ~1/2" or more shorter on these frames and still fit these no problem.
> 
> One potential problem I see is that the derailleur is really exposed when you put narrower tires on such a wide rear end. Hoping for the best.
> ...


All our snow melted so I accelerated my swap schedule to today.
It seems I needed a 1mm spacer in addition to the included 0.5mm spacer to get my 11-36 10-speed cassette lined up with my derailleur. Brake rotors were exactly lined up!

-F


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> I know it's snow season, but I decided now was the time to pick up some 29+ wheels for my Sturgis. These are the Framed Pro-X 29+ for 150/197 thru axles. They are actually pretty light, but they came with heavy tubes (presta tubes, but rims drilled for Schraeder(???)). They are probably not good candidates for tubeless in any form, though - the rims are quite deep. They are 47mm wide and came with 3" Chronicle tires. I just mocked them up as it's snowing right now and I just swapped Bud & Lou to my fat wheels. I'll give them the real test in the Spring, unless I get a bug to take them to Ray's Indoor MTB Park (which has a high probability). They are nearly the exact same diameter as Bud or Lou, but the fatties squish a bit more while riding, so these ride slightly higher. The bike feels like I am supposed to ride farther with the 29+ mounted - like it just wants to go.
> btw - they could've made the chainstays ~1/2" or more shorter on these frames and still fit these no problem.
> 
> One potential problem I see is that the derailleur is really exposed when you put narrower tires on such a wide rear end. Hoping for the best.
> ...


So I gave these new 29+ wheels a working over today. They roll really nice and freehub engagement is pretty good. They saved about 3# over the fat wheels and tires.

BUT - there's always a "but" - For conditions in which I would use them, basically low-speed crawling on very rocky terrain, the fatbike with narrow wheels is not ideal. The chainring is wayyy out there on that 120mm bottom bracket and gets whacked often, as do the pedals. The derailleur is wayyyy out there - it survived.
The wheels function just fine, and I climbed some crazy stuff easily, and enjoyed great steep braking traction and control. The front tire rotated slightly under braking so I'm going to have to glue it in with a little Stans just to make it stick.

-F

edit: more tire testing. 3-5" of snow was nice. Traction on off-camber stuff is positively superior. In places where I'm expecting the tire to slip sideways, it just climbs up. Cornering is similar. I think I can feel the tire slowing me down a little when I get over on those shoulder knobs, but that is price of crazy traction. Running 11-14psi, went as low as 8.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Last Friday's ride









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## motob1 (Dec 20, 2016)

I just bought these tires off Amazon. 

Vee Rubber Snowshoe XL Studded Fat Bike Tire: 26" x 4.8" 120tpi
Will they fit on my Night train Bullet?


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

motob1 said:


> I just bought these tires off Amazon.
> 
> Vee Rubber Snowshoe XL Studded Fat Bike Tire: 26" x 4.8" 120tpi
> Will they fit on my Night train Bullet?


Didn't check first? My Minions are 4.8 and they fit, but I'm sure someone who has used those will chime in.

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## motob1 (Dec 20, 2016)

basso4735 said:


> Didn't check first? My Minions are 4.8 and they fit, but I'm sure someone who has used those will chime in.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They were on sale, so I jumped.


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## Northeasterner (Oct 25, 2015)

Yes they fit fine, with plenty of space too! I just bought the same tires and installed them last week on my 2016 Night Train Bullet (mulefut rims). No snow here in coastal CT yet so I haven't had a chance to try them. They look great on the bike though the width is just right.


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## motob1 (Dec 20, 2016)

Thanks. The price was right, Had to go with 'em.


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## aflage (Nov 17, 2016)

I've seen several people swap the Maxxis tires for Jumbo Jims and have been very happy with the change. I also plan on doing this in the summer. My question is, for a dedicated summer tire, would you recommend the 4.8 or the 4.0 on the Mulefut 80mm rims? I'm leaning toward the 4.8 for a more rounded profile, but I'm all ears if anyone has experiences with both.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

aflage said:


> I've seen several people swap the Maxxis tires for Jumbo Jims and have been very happy with the change. I also plan on doing this in the summer. My question is, for a dedicated summer tire, would you recommend the 4.8 or the 4.0 on the Mulefut 80mm rims? I'm leaning toward the 4.8 for a more rounded profile, but I'm all ears if anyone has experiences with both.


I went with 4.5. Seems to work well for me.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

aflage said:


> I've seen several people swap the Maxxis tires for Jumbo Jims and have been very happy with the change. I also plan on doing this in the summer. My question is, for a dedicated summer tire, would you recommend the 4.8 or the 4.0 on the Mulefut 80mm rims? I'm leaning toward the 4.8 for a more rounded profile, but I'm all ears if anyone has experiences with both.


I'm using Schwalbe JJ Liteskin 4.8 on Surly Rolling Darryl Rims and I'm happy with these lightweight and fast rolling tires. The 4.0 would be a tad faster but i'll stick with 4.8 but planning to replace the Rolling Darryls with the more lighter DT Swiss BR710 rims.

By the way, my 2015 Sturgis Bullet came with the stock Vee Snowshoe 4.7 72tpi tires then I tried the Vee Bulldozer 4.7 120tpi tires. I love the JJ more than the two Vee tires.


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## Dolbydarma (Mar 16, 2013)

I switched to 3.8 tires for year round fun. Fat-B-Nimble up front and Husker-Du on the rear. They aren't ideal for the deepest snow, but here in CO we don't keep the deep snow very long. As for every other option the 3.8s are ideal! I still have my 4.8 V's but have no plans to put them back on. Hope that helps.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Ride last week, total skating rink. Hopefully the rain will have melted some of this.









On top of the WRX









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## th1npower (Dec 6, 2010)

..awesome! :thumbsup:

I've been working my tale off making trails in my yard w/ our 60+ inches of snow last month. Loving the bike!...

https://www.facebook.com/micah.puyear/posts/1541396582541424?pnref=story


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

basso4735 said:


> Could only get the front to seat up, even had to use a ratchet strap. Could not get the second bead to set on the rear unfortunately. Tried at the gas station as well but no go there - their compressor isn't very strong. Minion seemed pretty floppy on the rim with one bead set, I think that is the issue.
> 
> Tips welcome...tube back in for now.


Inflate with tube and seat bead. Break bead on one side and remove tube. Put in value without core. Soap the exposed bead. Turn tire so that the loose bead is down (so gravity pulls it towards the rim). Blast with compressor until you hear pops of the bead seating. You may need to bang on the tire to help it seat if you are still having issues. Once seated, deflate put in sealant and core and reflate.

Not sure how to do all that at a gas station though. I have a 60gal compressor.....


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

basso4735 said:


> Built up the green Sturgis last night and took it out in a fresh 4" of snow today!


The green looks nice against the white of the snow.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

TheNormsk said:


> Inflate with tube and seat bead. Break bead on one side and remove tube. Put in value without core. Soap the exposed bead. Turn tire so that the loose bead is down (so gravity pulls it towards the rim). Blast with compressor until you hear pops of the bead seating. You may need to bang on the tire to help it seat if you are still having issues. Once seated, deflate put in sealant and core and reflate.
> 
> Not sure how to do all that at a gas station though. I have a 60gal compressor.....


Yeah, tried that method for hours on the rear tire, did not have an air compressor though. Ended up seating most of the loose side bead with a tire lever WHILE DRY and it aired right up with the floor pump.

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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

*Bikesdirect wheelset deal*

Bikesdirect.com has a set of 29+ wheelset with tires. I'm pretty sure the front wheel will fit on our Sturgis/NT but I'm not so sure about he rear. The rear hub is 12x190 but our bikes take 12x197 hubs. Does anyone know the wheelset come with spacers to take up the slack? If not then are spacers even available for this conversion? If so then will this affect shifting? I'm hoping Joe from Bikesdirect is monitoring this thread and answer. Oh, and another concern is will the 29x3.0 tires that come with the set clear the fork and frame?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

tonyride1 said:


> Bikesdirect.com has a set of 29+ wheelset with tires. I'm pretty sure the front wheel will fit on our Sturgis/NT but I'm not so sure about he rear. The rear hub is 12x190 but our bikes take 12x197 hubs. Does anyone know the wheelset come with spacers to take up the slack? If not then are spacers even available for this conversion? If so then will this affect shifting? I'm hoping Joe from Bikesdirect is monitoring this thread and answer. Oh, and another concern is will the 29x3.0 tires that come with the set clear the fork and frame?


From earlier:


Fleas said:


> I know it's snow season, but I decided now was the time to pick up some 29+ wheels for my Sturgis. *These are the Framed Pro-X 29+ for 150/197 thru axles*. They are actually pretty light, but they came with heavy tubes (presta tubes, but rims drilled for Schraeder(???)). They are probably not good candidates for tubeless in any form, though - the rims are quite deep. They are 47mm wide and came with 3" Chronicle tires. I just mocked them up as it's snowing right now and I just swapped Bud & Lou to my fat wheels. I'll give them the real test in the Spring, unless I get a bug to take them to Ray's Indoor MTB Park (which has a high probability). They are nearly the exact same diameter as Bud or Lou, but the fatties squish a bit more while riding, so these ride slightly higher. The bike feels like I am supposed to ride farther with the 29+ mounted - like it just wants to go.
> btw - they could've made the chainstays ~1/2" or more shorter on these frames and still fit these no problem.
> 
> One potential problem I see is that the derailleur is really exposed when you put narrower tires on such a wide rear end. Hoping for the best.
> ...





Boo Bear said:


> Fleas- I'm looking forward to hearing more about this, as I am thinking of getting a 29+ wheelset for my Sturgis as well. Can you put up a photo of the rear wheel showing how much space is back there when you have a chance?
> 
> Did you consider *the 29+ wheelset from BD*? I know the hub is 190, but they're $250 and I think good candidates for tubeless.





Fleas said:


> There is a ton of room in the back. The 29x3.0 Chronicles on 47mm rims are the same diameter as Bud or Lou with at least 1/2" from any frame tube. It'll be a little while before I can get a pic.
> 
> *I am pretty sure the BD wheels are only 25mm wide.* To me that is not compatible with 29+. The biggest I'd go on a 25mm rim is 29x2.5, which I have; but the 29x2.5 Minion is a well-constructed tire. If I want to try the huge 29x3.25 Miner or Crux I can do it on a 47mm rim, but I think they would flop all over on a 25mm rim.
> 
> -F





Boo Bear said:


> *Yeah- it looks like they are 25mm rims, and I agree, not appropriate for a + tire. *
> 
> That is weird. I bought a pair of the 29 WTB i25 wheels from BD a year ago when I bought my Sturgis, but I hated them on the bike, so they're just sitting in the garage now. They didn't have a + option at the time. But I just recently noticed they were selling 29+ wheelsets now, and I assumed they were using a different rim. But further inspection shows that it looks like they're just putting a + tire on the same i25 rim, which makes very little sense.
> 
> I'd definitely go with The House offering for $400 at this point if I were to do it.


I am pretty sure BD will provide whatever axle configuration you want (12x197mm thru axle rear and 15x150mm thru axle front), but I didn't like the 25mm rims for plus.

-F


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Actually I took time read the entire description and they do include 2x3.5mm end caps to accommodate the 197mm spacing of the frame with the 190mm rear hub spacing. They have other adapters too that are included so they thought of everything.


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## th1npower (Dec 6, 2010)

..my Ti NT had to get a replacement rear wheel and they sent me a 190 w/ the spacers; works perfectly! BLUE loctite that rear hub/axle! :thumbsup:


..and thinking of either the 29+ or 27.5+ wheelset for the warmer months...


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

love seeing all these green bikes! keep the pictures coming!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

tonyride1 said:


> ...so they thought of everything.


...except 45mm-wide rims. 

-F


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

*Motobecane Sturgis Bullet (Upgraded)*

My 2015 Sturgis Bullet - new look for 2017 - black stealth drivetrain. Test ride will be on Sunday!





















Thanks for viewing and cheers!


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Fleas said:


> ...except 45mm-wide rims.
> 
> -F


 I'm not too concerned about having 25mm rims with 3.0in tires but it doesn't matter right now because they're all sold out of the wheelset. They will get more in a couple of months and when that happens let's see what size rims they decided to go with for the plus size wheelset.


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Around 30-35mm inner width is "just right" IMO for 2.8-3.0" tires, as far as balancing weight with tire support, especially with alloy rims. As a side benefit, that width is just narrow enough to run normal 2.3-2.5" tires if you decide to cut some weight. There are plenty of well respected bike gurus using 30mm rims for their 29+ tires. 25mm will work in a pinch, but is far from ideal.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Anyone know which wheels mfg derailleur hanger is compatible? Fell victim to the cheesy stock one today. Luckily it only cracked so I could pedal home single speed style.

It's nice that BD sends a spare with this bike, but after seeing how crappy it is, I'd like a stronger one. 









Some more carnage 









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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

*Sturgis Bullet with oval chainring*

First trail ride for 2017!









Thanks for viewing and cheers!


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

My RD hanger must be the 3rd gen (silver color) - this was my spare installed about 5 months ago (see above photo). So far so good. The stock one (black color) got bent.

But i'll order a spare from BD just in case this one got bent again.


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## MTBlawyer (Aug 20, 2016)

Does anyone know which BD hanger I need to order for the Sturgis NX? #28 or #31?


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

I bent 2 of Bikes Direct hangers from just laying the bike over. They are junk.

I went with the #416 hanger and its been great:

Derailleur Hanger #416


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## MTBlawyer (Aug 20, 2016)

KTMNealio said:


> I bent 2 of Bikes Direct hangers from just laying the bike over. They are junk.
> 
> I went with the #416 hanger and its been great:
> 
> Derailleur Hanger #416


thanks for the tip, I'll order it.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

I'm not saying that people have not had issue with the Stugis derailleur hangers but my Sturgis Bullet is over a year old now and while I did not ride it much in summer, it has taken numerous crashes in the snow. So far mine has stay perfectly okay.

I wanted to give a alternative perspective that they may not all be junk. Perhaps I am just lucky? Anyway I do follow wise advice and I always carry a spare. Just in case.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

I have inquired with BD last 2 weeks on the Sturgis hanger and Karla told me to order hanger #28.


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

TheNormsk said:


> I'm not saying that people have not had issue with the Stugis derailleur hangers but my Sturgis Bullet is over a year old now and while I did not ride it much in summer, it has taken numerous crashes in the snow. So far mine has stay perfectly okay.
> 
> I wanted to give a alternative perspective that they may not all be junk. Perhaps I am just lucky? Anyway I do follow wise advice and I always carry a spare. Just in case.


Similar results here. I've been meaning to purchase a replacement hanger since I purchased the bike a couple years ago but just never got around to it. The Sturgis is my primary bike during the summer (haven't had many opportunities to ride in snow much) - anything gnarly, I'll usually take the Reign. But as with all my bikes, I always make sure to lay 'em down on the non-drive side. The Sturgis' derailleur does tend to stick out a lot more than other bikes (including my kid's Lurch fatbike)... so maybe we are the lucky few.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

TheNormsk said:


> I'm not saying that people have not had issue with the Stugis derailleur hangers but my Sturgis Bullet is over a year old now and while I did not ride it much in summer, it has taken numerous crashes in the snow. So far mine has stay perfectly okay.
> 
> I wanted to give a alternative perspective that they may not all be junk. Perhaps I am just lucky? Anyway I do follow wise advice and I always carry a spare. Just in case.


I think it's a bit funny that they link to a video on how to bend back a derailleur hanger, but upon doing so these instantly snap.

I've had 3 bikes over the past 6 years and I've never snapped one, only bent and usually they can bend back into place well enough.

Not complaining, I love the Sturgis.

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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

KTMNealio said:


> I bent 2 of Bikes Direct hangers from just laying the bike over. They are junk.
> 
> I went with the #416 hanger and its been great:
> 
> Derailleur Hanger #416


I must have the updated hanger as I have 2 screws going in to mine.

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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

basso4735 said:


> I must have the updated hanger as I have 2 screws going in to mine.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You much have the newer frame that has 2 screws for the hanger but if you get the hanger with a single screw it will still work. Just not the other way around.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

tonyride1 said:


> You much have the newer frame that has 2 screws for the hanger but if you get the hanger with a single screw it will still work. Just not the other way around.


Thanks Tonyride1 - good to know, as I have a 1st and 2nd gen Sturgis/Nighttrain and was wondering about this exact thing with the multiple screw holes on gen 2.

FYI - the hanger that came on my gen 2 night train is still going strong. On the first gen, it bent from derailleur slap while dropping off a curb.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

*1x alternative*

It has been a while since my last post... Here is a recent photo of my Sturgis. I have added a rear rack for the winter and a section of inter tube over the dropper post to keep salt off of it (works awesome btw).

Instead of going 1x10, I found the 22t to small. On the trails the gearing was always too low, I never used the bigger gears on the cassette, but the big ring didn't give me low enough gears on the technical stuff. My solution was to change the 22t ring to a 26t ring (I considered a 24t). This change to a 26t does have one initial drawback I had to grind down the front derailure to clear the teeth on the 26t when in the larger 36t position. It was not much grinding with a dremel at all as it barely touched the teeth.

With the 26/36t crank the shifting is far smoother as the rings are much closer in size. The 26t ring makes the rear cassette range excellent for rougher trails, and keeping the 36t means I still have faster gearing for fast descents and smooth paths/trails.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

I have a little over 100 miles on the Sturgis since December and overall I'm still impressed.

Last night I went out for a quick ride and wanted to check the sealant when I got back so I spun the rear wheel and could feel and hear a little clunking from the hub.

I disassembled the hub and it's worth noting the non drive side axle cap was loose. I will grab some loctite for that today. Realistically how much should that cap be tightened?

Anyway I got down to the freehub and everything looked ok....Plenty of thin oil/grease in there so I'm not sure if there is an issue or if the loose axle cap was allowing some play. I'll keep an eye on it though.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

basso4735 said:


> I have a little over 100 miles on the Sturgis since December and overall I'm still impressed.
> 
> Last night I went out for a quick ride and wanted to check the sealant when I got back so I spun the rear wheel and could feel and hear a little clunking from the hub.
> 
> ...


Common. Do not over tighten. Just so there's no wheel/hub play.

I have found the bearings and free hub ratchet to be pretty good, but the outboard freehub bearing probably gets the worst of it. Check it next time your cogs are off.

-F


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Fleas said:


> Common. Do not over tighten. Just so there's no wheel/hub play.
> 
> I have found the bearings and free hub ratchet to be pretty good, but the outboard freehub bearing probably gets the worst of it. Check it next time your cogs are off.
> 
> -F


Perfect, thanks.

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## th1npower (Dec 6, 2010)

..check, check, check every ride. mine shelled out after a months of riding and have blue locktite on the new wheel and no issues. i'm paranoid that it will crap out so check it every ride -- a quick wiggle of the rear wheel to make sure it's not coming loose..

my buddy had his rear hub shell out and opted for a new HOPE hub, damn it's a beauty. he sent back his old hub to novatec who will fix the old one once they get the parts in -- apparently there are not parts for these hubs right now (?too many failures)..

stay atop the rear hub and hopefully it will provide you lots of fun, happy miles!...


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

th1npower said:


> ..check, check, check every ride. mine shelled out after a months of riding and have blue locktite on the new wheel and no issues. i'm paranoid that it will crap out so check it every ride -- a quick wiggle of the rear wheel to make sure it's not coming loose..
> 
> my buddy had his rear hub shell out and opted for a new HOPE hub, damn it's a beauty. he sent back his old hub to novatec who will fix the old one once they get the parts in -- apparently there are not parts for these hubs right now (?too many failures)..
> 
> stay atop the rear hub and hopefully it will provide you lots of fun, happy miles!...


Looks like I was too late, ratchet ring is toast after today's ride. Hopefully BD will help but maybe it's worth it to upgrade?

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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

basso4735 said:


> Looks like I was too late, ratchet ring is toast after today's ride. Hopefully BD will help but maybe it's worth it to upgrade?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


BIkesdirect does not have hubs/parts to replace, directed me to Novatec. Hopefully they will do something. Less than 2 months and 100 miles on the bike.

If I didn't have another bike the wheel would be at the LBS already, but we'll see how Novatec handles.

EDIT: Novatec is sending out a new hub body and freehub. Looks like I'm out the cost to have the hub swapped out but that shouldn't be too bad.










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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Back in business, lbs put the new ratchet in over the weekend and the hub is back together. Novatec also sent a replacement 3 pawl freehub body and advised I should use it over the 4 pawl that it was originally spec'd with.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

First ride, ratchet cracked AGAIN. Hub is a joke.

This one looks like it broke in multiple places.


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

basso4735 said:


> Ride last week, total skating rink. Hopefully the rain will have melted some of this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice rides!


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

basso4735 said:


> First ride, ratchet cracked AGAIN. Hub is a joke.
> 
> This one looks like it broke in multiple places.


I'm in the warranty period for both novatec fat wheels i have, and I'm NOT even going to pursue fixing them. Throwing good money (and time) after bad on these.

edit - somehow managed to leave out the most important part of the statement...NOT.


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## hiro11 (Dec 29, 2011)

My experience at 14 months and about 1,200 miles on the Novatec hub. I weigh 160 and ride mostly singletrack on this bike.

After a few hundred miles, the hub started snapping and clicking. I took the wheel off and noticed that the NDS spacer was loose. I took the spacer off and removed the axle and freehub body. My hub has a four pawl body and a press fit ratchet ring. I cleaned everything out (it was still clean) and inspected the ratchet ring. The was no scoring or sharpening. I used a dab of Shimano freehub grease under each pawl and rebuilt the hub. This whole process took maybe ten minutes.

That was ~900 miles ago and I haven't had any problem since. I perodically check the NDS spacer to make sure it's not coming loose but it has stayed tight. I might put a dab of blue Loctite on it if it loosens again.

Overall, I've had fairly bad results with Novatec hubs. Another set of Novatecs on another bike came new with metal filings in the freehub body that bound the freehub to the hub. That was annoying. Meanwhile I have a set of cup and cone 7800 Dura Ace hubs with 15K miles on them that still turn and freewheel like butter (albeit, I've overhauled them three times). Hubs are one item on a bike where you almost always get what you pay for.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Novatec is sending another round of parts, this will be the last chance. After this I'm putting in a better hub. 

Just FYI, this was their response. Keep in mind the shop I had put the last ratchet in is highly reputable for my area and very experienced with fat bikes. 

"If the ratchet ring is not installed with the same amount of force evenly throughout then this is the outcome. We have seen it happen several times, I would also advise that your LBS put blue lock-tite in with the outermost part of the ratchet ring between the hub shell and ratchet ring."


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## th1npower (Dec 6, 2010)

..make sure you put a helping of Blue Loc-tite on the non-drive nut for the axle!

Mine crapped out w/i the first mo or so if I recall. I sent the wheel back to Bikes Direct ($80 round trip - lame!) and then I put Blue Loc-tite on the axle nut and check almost every ride. *Knock on wood* - no issues!

If it craps out again, I'll buy a HOPE or other hub. The time down and not riding means more to me than the cost of a quality part.


Otherwise, I've been SUPER happy w/ the bike - it has been an awesome snow-filled winter in MT and now riding some of the skinny technical trails w/ the fatty. I'll probably ride it another month or two then overhaul - clean/grease and put to rest until next winter...

Happy riding,
Micah


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

th1npower said:


> ..make sure you put a helping of Blue Loc-tite on the non-drive nut for the axle!
> 
> Mine crapped out w/i the first mo or so if I recall. I sent the wheel back to Bikes Direct ($80 round trip - lame!) and then I put Blue Loc-tite on the axle nut and check almost every ride. *Knock on wood* - no issues!
> 
> ...


I did loctite the end cap after the new part the first time and unfortunately it bit the dust.

I am happy with the bike as a whole as well, but when things like this break and I'm waiting for parts while I could be riding is what sucks.

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## Pack66 (Jul 7, 2015)

Saw a Sturgis last weekend at 24HOP from a light vendor at 24 hour town. Nice lights and a beautiful bike!


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

*2015 Sturgis Bullet*


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## hiro11 (Dec 29, 2011)

Pack66 said:


> Saw a Sturgis last weekend at 24HOP from a light vendor at 24 hour town. Nice lights and a beautiful bike!


I'm struggling to untangle the meaning of this post... any help?


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

hiro11 said:


> I'm struggling to untangle the meaning of this post... any help?


The way how I read it is apparently there's a 24-hour event at a place with a name that begins with the letter "P". So 24HOP is 24 hours of Pxxx. At that event there's a vendor that sells lights. I'm guessing the venue where vendors are gathered is called 24 Hour Town ("Downtown"). I'm assuming head lights for night riding is what that vendor is selling. So that vendor mounted the light(s) on a Sturgis to show how great it looks. Yes, a lot of assumptions I know but I let my imagination run wild sometimes.


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## motob1 (Dec 20, 2016)

Just took my Night Train Bullet out for first ride with studded tires. At one point I definitely had that "feels like I'm driving a tank" feel. Vee Rubber Snowshoe XL tires.


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## kwgaines (Jul 17, 2013)

Any one have recommendations for a frame bag for a medium Sturgis?


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00696K4E6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1&th=1


kwgaines said:


> Any one have recommendations for a frame bag for a medium Sturgis?


This works for me and my Sturgis is a medium. I got the medium size bag. They also have a large bag.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Is the bottom bracket tool needed to service the bearings on the Sturgis? My cranks feel a bit rough so I wanted to take a look at the bearings and see what's going on.


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## OilcanRacer (Jan 4, 2008)

basso4735 said:


> First ride, ratchet cracked AGAIN. Hub is a joke.
> 
> This one looks like it broke in multiple places.


Every single person including myself has had these hubs fall apart. Over 100 now. The low price of these bikes is raised by poor quality hubs and BB.

My rear hub lasted 56 miles. Replaced it with a hope one and no problem 2,000 miles later. BB lasted 260 miles, started clicking. It was toast inside. I took such special care when I first got it to clean and regreased all bearings and hubs because of horror stories I read after I ordered bike. Checked and rechecked to make sure everything was tighten correctly.

Bikes direct ignored me and all emails till I called them out on forums, then they denied any wrong doing.

In the end if you want a nice bike your not going to ride get this. If your going to ride it, just get the frame and fork, build it up without the super low quality heavy parts they sell you. A few people have not had many problems, but they have very little miles on the bike. Again, everyone I know has had issues after some time.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

OilcanRacer;
In the end if you want a nice bike your not going to ride get this. If your going to ride it said:


> I will say that my lbs was very aware of the Novatec hub issue, so that's not really a Bikesdirect blame IMO. I'm sure there are other manufacturers using the same hubs and facing the same issues.
> 
> Frame+fork+wheelset+tires were enough to keep me happy on the price, just need to replace/upgrade as things break. Only problem is the downtime, which sucks.
> 
> ...


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

*Singlespeed tensioner?*

Has anyone converted their Sturgis to a SS? I'm in the process of doing so and ordered the Rennen Rollenlager tensioner, but it doesn't work with the current RD hanger. One, I'd need to drill the Rollenglager out just a bit to get the 12mm TA to fit thru, that isn't a big problem though. The bigger issue is that the RD hanger is quite large and would push the tensioner way out from the dropouts.

Is anyone running the bike SS, and if so, how did you solve the tensioner issue? (Also, not interested in that ghetto solution one guy here did, a loop off the chainstay.)

Thanks


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Killed the third rear hub ratchet in as many rides, I'm done with the Novatec. I think I'll go with the DT Swiss Big Ride.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

*Novatec Rear Hub Bearings*



basso4735 said:


> First ride, ratchet cracked AGAIN. Hub is a joke.
> 
> This one looks like it broke in multiple places.


For those of you guys who already replaced the bearings on your Novatec rear hubs - I understand that it comes with 5 bearings.

So may I ask - if the correct number of bearings are 4 pcs of 6902 and 1 pc of 15267? Or 3 pcs of 6902 and 2 pcs of 15267?

No problem with the front hubs as it is posted and clear to have 2pcs of 6902.

Thanks in advance for your help.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

basso4735 said:


> Killed the third rear hub ratchet in as many rides, I'm done with the Novatec. I think I'll go with the DT Swiss Big Ride.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did you replace the hub 3 times or just the ratchet ring? is there some trick or issue installing it?... i'll knock on wood, have 3 of these hubs... all going well ,, 2 of which have been abused for 2 years straight in western ny winters...


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## hiro11 (Dec 29, 2011)

basso4735 said:


> I will say that my lbs was very aware of the Novatec hub issue, so that's not really a Bikesdirect blame IMO. I'm sure there are other manufacturers using the same hubs and facing the same issues.


The Novatec 190/197 hubs do kind of suck, but so do most 190/197 hubs. I think this is mainly due to the unique combination of factors with fatbikes: lots of grip, 22t chainrings, cold temperatures and very wide hub bodies. It's annoying that in this small market you really need to spend at least $400 on a rear hub to get one that's totally reliable. Really good 142 or Boost hubs are less than half of that price.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

twright205 said:


> Did you replace the hub 3 times or just the ratchet ring? is there some trick or issue installing it?... i'll knock on wood, have 3 of these hubs... all going well ,, 2 of which have been abused for 2 years straight in western ny winters...


2 ratchet ring and 2 freehub body replacements. Both at Novatec's guidance and done by a shop. Bike has 110 total miles on it.

I'm a heavy guy at 200lbs and I ride hard, but this is the first rear hub I've ever killed, and 3 times to boot.

Shop is ordering the DT Swiss 350 for me today.

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## no one in particular (Jan 30, 2004)

I have a new Lurch, not one of these aluminum bikes, but it does have the same rubbish D202SB-QR-S4S Novatec rear hub. I have only had the bike since 12.24.16, and almost straight away I started hearing popping sounds out of the rear. Since this is a QR on a sliding dropout, I had been assuming that his was the cause of the noise. And I was lucky to get over 600 miles on the thing before it totally went FUBAR.

But eventually the noise got worse and worse and then the hub started tugging at the chain. I took the thing apart to find what many of you guys are used to seeing, a ratchet ring broken in 6 places. But the freehub looked fine. Okay, obviously the problem, right?

So Novatec sends me a replacement ratchet ring. Well, that is to say, Novatec sent me a replacement ring 4 days after promising it. Anyway, I eventually get the replacement, pulled out the old ring--which basically fell out, cleaned up some internal marring on the hub body, and use the bolt/washer method to effectively press in the new ring. Great!

But then when I loaded the freehub back on, I noticed a lot of the same issues were still there--tons of noise and poor freewheeling action. _Eventually_, after a lot of haggling with Novatec, and a LOT of close hub inspection it became clear that the actual hub was ovalized, causing the ratchet ring to be out of round inside the hub!

While going over all this, the Novatec rep asks me what kind of riding I've been doing. I explain that I'm doing both snow rides, and typical NE dry singletrack when it's available. So then he starts pontificating about how Novatec has been very clear to "Motobecane" about how these hubs are not meant for trail use! He explained that these hubs are intended for snow cover and groomed trails only!

I'm not kidding, he said that. Anyway, he then asked me to send the whole wheel back so they can replace the hub under warranty. But why the hell would I possibly do that, if they don't think the hub will last under the type of riding I'm going to do? We'd just be having this same conversation again in a few weeks.

Anyway, I told him thanks but no thanks. Then I ordered a Hope hub from Jenson. It'll be here this evening.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

no one in particular said:


> I have a new Lurch, not one of these aluminum bikes, but it does have the same rubbish D202SB-QR-S4S Novatec rear hub. I have only had the bike since 12.24.16, and almost straight away I started hearing popping sounds out of the rear. Since this is a QR on a sliding dropout, I had been assuming that his was the cause of the noise. And I was lucky to get over 600 miles on the thing before it totally went FUBAR.
> 
> But eventually the noise got worse and worse and then the hub started tugging at the chain. I took the thing apart to find what many of you guys are used to seeing, a ratchet ring broken in 6 places. But the freehub looked fine. Okay, obviously the problem, right?
> 
> ...


Interesting-the person I've been emailing at Novatec didn't mention anything like that.

Don't other brands use these hubs as well? I thought Specialized used them, maybe they have stopped though.

I believe you are correct that the hub becomes out of round and is the culprit of the multiple failures. Most likely that non drive side end cap loosens up, allows the freehub to destroy the ratchet and ovalize the shell. Good luck after that.

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## hiro11 (Dec 29, 2011)

basso4735 said:


> Interesting-the person I've been emailing at Novatec didn't mention anything like that.
> 
> Don't other brands use these hubs as well? I thought Specialized used them, maybe they have stopped though.


Joytech owns the Novatec brand. Joytech, Formula and Chosen seem to make most of the private label hubs so it seems likely that Joytech hubs are lurking under other brand names. I think Joytech is the largest hub maker in Taiwan. I've had a mixed experience with inexpensive Taiwanese hubs, some are bulletproof, other are totally unreliable. Other brands have similar problems. For example, Specialized has definitely had lots of issues with Fat Boy hubs in the past. IMO, rear hubs are one place not to skimp in a bike. The problem with fat bikes is that the market is so small that prices are ridiculous high for anything good.


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## th1npower (Dec 6, 2010)

..bugger to hear about the failures; all i/we want to do is ride!

..the issue as I found out from reading the Motobecane threads was the axle coming loose then the freehub "rounds out" the hub and destroys the ratchet ring. I'm not sure the hub is salvageable once this happens, which is probably why some have repeat failures.

I went the "replace the ring route" 1x after my hub started popping, catching, and eventually the ring exploded. The 2nd ring didn't last days b/c of the damage to the hub body already done, I don't think they come damaged.

I sent my wheel back to Motobecane and got a new one, 1st thing out of the box was to blue loc-tite the living hell out of the axle and make sure it's tight when put on and the wheel shows no free-play in the bike -- been wrenching on bikes a long time so know the "feel" of a loose hub from the old cup-cone days. After a year of intense abuse riding rocks, dirt, sand, mud, slush, etc I've been lucky to have no failure.

It's pure BS that Novatec says these are for "Snow Only" use... trying to cover a shitty design w/ lots of failures, imho! Novatec told the same thing to my riding buddy, also on a Motobecane w/ the hub issues, and he didn't want the hassle of dealing w/ them so bought a Hope hub w/o any issues.. I'll probably do the same if/when my hub were to explode again.


that said, loving the hell out of my Ti Night Train -- taking lots of abuse and keeps on rolling. 


tldr: if your ratachet explodes; replacing ring will only continue to have failures - must get new hub and loc-tite axle.


happy riding...
Micah


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## oobaa47 (Sep 14, 2016)

Any thoughts on which companies are making top after market fat bike hubs? I saw I9 and hope make a fat bike hub, any other high end options?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

oobaa47 said:


> Any thoughts on which companies are making top after market fat bike hubs? I saw I9 and hope make a fat bike hub, any other high end options?


I thought the DT Swiss Big Ride was the go-to fatbike hub.

-F


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Fleas said:


> I thought the DT Swiss Big Ride was the go-to fatbike hub.
> 
> -F


My lbs recommended this one to me, but I'm sure there are more expensive options out there.

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## justin70 (Sep 17, 2007)

Does replacing the hub require totally breaking down the wheel and building it back up?


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

justin70 said:


> Does replacing the hub require totally breaking down the wheel and building it back up?


Yup. You'll need to remove the spokes from the rim in order to get them off the hub. In order for you to remove the nipples that hold the spokes and then reinstall them you'll need access to the holes on the other side of the rim. In order to do that you'll need to remove the tire and rim tape.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> I know it's snow season, but I decided now was the time to pick up some 29+ wheels for my Sturgis. These are the Framed Pro-X 29+ for 150/197 thru axles. They are actually pretty light, but they came with heavy tubes (presta tubes, but rims drilled for Schraeder(???)). They are probably not good candidates for tubeless in any form, though - the rims are quite deep. They are 47mm wide and came with 3" Chronicle tires. I just mocked them up as it's snowing right now and I just swapped Bud & Lou to my fat wheels. I'll give them the real test in the Spring, unless I get a bug to take them to Ray's Indoor MTB Park (which has a high probability). They are nearly the exact same diameter as Bud or Lou, but the fatties squish a bit more while riding, so these ride slightly higher. The bike feels like I am supposed to ride farther with the 29+ mounted - like it just wants to go.
> btw - they could've made the chainstays ~1/2" or more shorter on these frames and still fit these no problem.
> 
> One potential problem I see is that the derailleur is really exposed when you put narrower tires on such a wide rear end. Hoping for the best.
> ...





Fleas said:


> So I gave these new 29+ wheels a working over today. They roll really nice and freehub engagement is pretty good. They saved about 3# over the fat wheels and tires.
> 
> BUT - there's always a "but" - For conditions in which I would use them, basically low-speed crawling on very rocky terrain, the fatbike with narrow wheels is not ideal. The chainring is wayyy out there on that 120mm bottom bracket and gets whacked often, as do the pedals. The derailleur is wayyyy out there - it survived.
> The wheels function just fine, and I climbed some crazy stuff easily, and enjoyed great steep braking traction and control. The front tire rotated slightly under braking so I'm going to have to glue it in with a little Stans just to make it stick.
> ...


I was expecting all the snow to melt, so I swapped to 29+. Then 2 days later we got 4-5" more snow. That meant it was time for more tire testing.

The Chronicles were aired down to "slightly wrinkled". Conditions were light snow over frozen. I had decent traction in line with the tire for both propulsion and braking, but the front tire kept washing all over the place. It couldn't quite cut through to the base layer so it kept floating around on the turns. That took a lot of attention.
So, like most tires of any size, if you can't get the Chronicle to bite into the base material of the riding surface, it doesn't work very well.
But again, the tires worked well in rocks, mud, dry, no trail, sand (to a degree), ... You can feel them dragging on pavement, though.

-F


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Fleas said:


> I was expecting all the snow to melt, so I swapped to 29+. Then 2 days later we got 4-5" more snow. That meant it was time for more tire testing.
> 
> The Chronicles were aired down to "slightly wrinkled". Conditions were light snow over frozen. I had decent traction in line with the tire for both propulsion and braking, but the front tire kept washing all over the place. It couldn't quite cut through to the base layer so it kept floating around on the turns. That took a lot of attention.
> So, like most tires of any size, if you can't get the Chronicle to bite into the base material of the riding surface, it doesn't work very well.
> ...


 What wheel/tire combo are you running again? Is it the set that Bikesdirect.com is selling for $249?


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

Delete


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

akacoke said:


> any one has the stock fork laying around wanna sell? prefer black one. will take other colors


I have a brand new take off from a size small. It's black. Pm me if you are interested.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Just waiting for the lbs for that new hub...shot from last week.










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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

Boo Bear said:


> Fleas- I'm looking forward to hearing more about this, as I am thinking of getting a 29+ wheelset for my Sturgis as well. Can you put up a photo of the rear wheel showing how much space is back there when you have a chance?
> 
> Did you consider the 29+ wheelset from BD? I know the hub is 190, but they're $250 and I think good candidates for tubeless.


The problem with the BD wheels is the lousy Novatech rear hub. You cannot trust it not to fail like many other on this forum have experienced.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

tonyride1 said:


> What wheel/tire combo are you running again? Is it the set that Bikesdirect.com is selling for $249?





Allamuchy Joe said:


> The problem with the BD wheels is the lousy Novatech rear hub. You cannot trust it not to fail like many other on this forum have experienced.


I've been able to keep my OEM Novatec rear hub going for 2 years now. It has required some vigilance and conscientious maintenance, though. Literally, even a few _minutes_ of neglect could mean the difference between working and broken if it is loose or a bearing is contaminated. It's nothing like the maintenance intervals on any other "normal" bicycle component.

The 29+ wheels are from The House. Framed Pro-X w/ 29x3 Chronicles and Pub Hubs. As soon as it dries out a bit I might be able to get mean with that rear Pub Hub. So far I haven't had enough traction to really test it on some hard climbs.
The BD wheels had too skinny rims to be considered for plus duty IMO.

-F


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

Fleas said:


> I've been able to keep my OEM Novatec rear hub going for 2 years now. It has required some vigilance and conscientious maintenance, though. Literally, even a few _minutes_ of neglect could mean the difference between working and broken if it is loose or a bearing is contaminated. It's nothing like the maintenance intervals on any other "normal" bicycle component.
> 
> The 29+ wheels are from The House. Framed Pro-X w/ 29x3 Chronicles and Pub Hubs. As soon as it dries out a bit I might be able to get mean with that rear Pub Hub. So far I haven't had enough traction to really test it on some hard climbs.
> The BD wheels had too skinny rims to be considered for plus duty IMO.
> ...


I'd agree with Flea there.... the BD 29+ wheelset, the rims are a bit narrow to give you the real benefit of plus, I used them a few times last Summer, and then got some velocity blunts... much better. however if you are going with the 29+ 3 inch tires which usually only hit a real world 2.8... you probably won't have an issue..

I have had a novetec hub on my fatbike for over 30 months.very abused during those months..... it finally gave up the ghost.. .I have two more wheelsets with them,, no issues. Novetec just sent out a replacement rachcet ring and freehub assembly... so time will tell if this solution works or not. I know someone on here hasn't had a good experience with trying this route. I'll report back.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

I had a very-easy time last week repairing my Novatec D202SB with this: Wheel Parts-PAWLS and SPRING


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## Allamuchy Joe (Oct 18, 2005)

thomcom said:


> I had a very-easy time last week repairing my Novatec D202SB with this: Wheel Parts-PAWLS and SPRING


The ratchet ring broke on mine, which required me to take the tire off, ship the wheel to CA for replacement. Novatech put a new hub on the wheel and shipped it back. The process takes 2-3 weeks.

I got it fixed once after I heard the "pop" and I saw the racket ring was busted. That was last year -- this year I heard another "pop", so I just upgraded it to a Hope hub and didn't look back. It just got to the point where I didn't trust the hub and it affected the way I rode (not powering into climbs, not giving that extra boost at the top of hills, etc) so I replaced it.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

I'm about to put red loctite on mine. I figure for a $150 wheel with a 90% of catastrophic hub failure in the next six months, why not? This way maybe I'll get many more years out of it.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Yessssss










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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Has anyone replaced or serviced the bottom bracket bearings? Would like to have some spares if I can't bring the current ones back to life.


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## byron555 (Apr 24, 2015)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GQV9WR...olid=3BVVYKXO2XKOC&coliid=IUNBX7GWJIMCD&psc=1

Should work so long as it is the 24mm spindle


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

*Custom Sturgis Bullet*

Here's my bike - finally have it where I want it. 
I think it's a 2015 (bought it slightly used).
Frame - Motobecane Sturgis Bullet
120mm Bluto
Everything else I stripped off and built up custom...made the ride so much nicer.

I re-used the hubs and laced them to Alex Blizzerk 90mm tubeless rims. Found Red Duck Tape that matched the frame to line the rim, put a layer of clear packing tape to firm it up, then some orange seal (thin) tubeless tape for good measure.

Tires - Surly Bud/Lou tubeless with Orange Seal Endurance formula...sealant seems to be lasting forever (tho they have a cold formula). The tires do measure about 4.8 on these rims They clear the frame just fine. They do clear the fork, but in deep snow I have a slight hump in the rim that causes tire rub every rotation. I know it's just ice, but maybe having a professional true the rim up will help since I never fine tuned it. I've never had issues with mud rubbing.

The Sammox cranks were so wide it felt like I was riding a horse...I suppose that's the nature of 190mm rear spacing. I took the advice of another poster on this board and swapped to the following crank:
Race Face Cinch. I got the 170 spacing version instead of 190. I went with 170 length. Here is the trick to make it work: You'll need to do a 1x Raceface direct mount chainring and flip it around so that the teeth are out closer to your pedal, rather than toward the frame. This creates a perfect chainline, and allows the chain to clear larger tires with a narrower Q-factor. 
I really do feel more comfortable pedaling this bike now. I look forward to riding it, rather than just having it around when the ground is softer. 
Note - I'm still using the stock Bottom Bracket that came with the bike.

Drivetrain - I went with Shimano XT 1x11. 11-46 cassette, 26 tooth chainring. I know it sounds crazy, but it's nice for snow and I rarely hit top gear off-road, tho I like to spin.

Seatpost - Thudbuster LT. I had to run a shim since I had a 27.2 version. As long as you use carbon prep instead of grease it stays in place. Tho I enjoy a dropper on my full squish, this really does help the fatty feel more like a full suspension.

Brakes - Avid BB7. Tried & True. Adjustable on the trail.

70mm Nashbar stem, & Kore 730mm bar.

I routed the rear shift cable through the front derailleur opening, and put the brake cable through the rear derailleur opening to go all internal (brake typically mounds outside on this frame).

I don't have a super accurate scale but I think my fish scale was showing about 35 lbs.

If anybody wants my sammox crank with 2x SRAM chainrings (75 miles) - I'll sell it on the cheap.


----------



## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Hey all. 

My 16 year old kid broke the rear through axle on his Sturgis. (minor car v bike incident) He took it to the local bike shop (Trek) and they said they didn't have one. Told him to call the 800 number that came with the bike. 

Two questions:

1. Are all 197 through axles the same?

2. If not, anyone have a source, link etc? 

Thanks


----------



## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

Derailleur Hangers And Thru-Axles for Bicycles, Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, Hybrid, Comfort and More Save Up to 60% Off New Bikes


----------



## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Jeff_G said:


> Hey all.
> 
> My 16 year old kid broke the rear through axle on his Sturgis. (minor car v bike incident)


I'm curious how it broke the axle? I don't get hit by cars a lot, but I do send my Sturgis and 260lbs of dude through the air a lot.


----------



## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

I like BD bikes but their website sucks. I spent 15 minutes trying to find "parts" and failed. Thanks twright205.

Now I'm going to call the bike shop my kid went to (Where I've spent about $5,000 in the last two years) and ask if they have a compatible through axle with those dimensions. (M12x1.75x229mm RR197)

KTMNealio,

Not sure what exactly happened but the the "flip lever" thingy snapped off. The axle itself is still in one piece and functioning.


----------



## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

basso4735 said:


> Has anyone replaced or serviced the bottom bracket bearings? Would like to have some spares if I can't bring the current ones back to life.


My BB is creaking and crackling like crazy. I'm wondering if they stock Raceface BB isn't made for fat guys hucking the fat bikes..?


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## th1npower (Dec 6, 2010)

Jeff_G said:


> Not sure what exactly happened but the the "flip lever" thingy snapped off. The axle itself is still in one piece and functioning.


..if you're good w/ tools / handy this is an easy fix. it can happen on any thru-axle.

1. go to hardware store and get the smallest EZ-Out.
2. use very small drill bit (some EZ-Out sets come w/ it) to drill the broken bolt centrally.
3. use easy out to get the broken part out.
4. go to hardware store and match up size / thread pattern - i think it's a 3 mm, but mate up to make sure. pick up a couple extras for spares.
5. replace w/ new bolt and make sure you don't over tighten. (super interesting, torque specs relate to the amount of stretch a bolt can handle before it snaps. i'm sure an engineer can explain it better, but we're actually stretching those lil' bolts when we tighten them down too much).

please contact me w/ any questions, concerns, or pics.. i've had to do this on several thru-axles in the past.

from their website:
Derailleur Hangers And Thru-Axles for Bicycles, Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, Hybrid, Comfort and More Save Up to 60% Off New Bikes

You want this one if going to replace:
Bottom row #3 from the LEFT.

Fat Bike
Rear Thru-Axles Available
Pic Coming Soon
Fit RR AL/Ti Sturgis/Night
M12x1.75x229mm RR197

197mmFatBike ThruAxle

Happy riding,
Micah


----------



## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Thanks for all the info. The lever actually snapped so no fixing it. $50 for that thru axle. As inexpensive as these bikes are I may as well by a whole bike for spare parts. 

That's actually not such a bad idea I could use the spare set of rims.


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## lalahg (Nov 9, 2015)

KTMNealio said:


> My BB is creaking and crackling like crazy. I'm wondering if they stock Raceface BB isn't made for fat guys hucking the fat bikes..?


Mine sure isn't. 900 miles of 210 lb rider has done it in. How long are these lasting for everyone else?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

KTMNealio said:


> My BB is creaking and crackling like crazy. I'm wondering if they stock Raceface BB isn't made for fat guys hucking the fat bikes..?





lalahg said:


> Mine sure isn't. 900 miles of 210 lb rider has done it in. How long are these lasting for everyone else?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Wayyyy back in this thread, ~3 mos. after I got my Sturgis, I noticed the bottom bracket was binding a little. I took it apart and removed the dust covers from the bearings and found rust. I cleaned them, packed them with grease, wiped the inside of the bottom bracket with grease, re-assembled with more grease, and now it is running very well. And it has been ridden completely submerged in creeks and lakes with sand and sediment stirring in the water. I've ridden on slushy, salty roads, muddy farm tracks, and sandy beaches. The grease keeps the junk out.
BTW - my frame holds probably 8 oz. of water that needs to be drained after really wet rides.

-F


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Hey All,

My buddy is looking for a bike. He's an old school hard core biker looking to get back into the game. He is leaning towards a fat bike because he would like to ride in the winter. 

He's a bit particular and has high standards. But a low budget by fat bike standards. 

He was looking at Framed bikes and I mentioned he should look at BD. 

Initial thoughts he has:

1. Medium, aluminum frame
2. 1x
3. Tubeless ready
4. 4 to 4.8 fast rolling tire (would likely have a 4 and 4.8 for summer and winter) 
5. Front suspension
6. $1,500 or so budget

I thought the Sturgis Bullet or Night Train Bullet Would fit the bill. Even though they are both 2x the Night train has an 11 speed cassette which would be ideal for a 1x conversion. 

Anyone unhappy with a 1x10 conversion on the Sturgis?

Sturgis is only available white which he must not be a fan of and the Night Train is not available in 17.5"

Does BD give any info on restocking if you call them? 

Any other thoughts?


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## lalahg (Nov 9, 2015)

Fleas said:


> Wayyyy back in this thread, ~3 mos. after I got my Sturgis, I noticed the bottom bracket was binding a little. I took it apart and removed the dust covers from the bearings and found rust. I cleaned them, packed them with grease, wiped the inside of the bottom bracket with grease, re-assembled with more grease, and now it is running very well. And it has been ridden completely submerged in creeks and lakes with sand and sediment stirring in the water. I've ridden on slushy, salty roads, muddy farm tracks, and sandy beaches. The grease keeps the junk out.
> BTW - my frame holds probably 8 oz. of water that needs to be drained after really wet rides.
> 
> -F


My problem is a single loud click on each application of high torque on each down stroke both left and right. I've got a wrench and a rebuild kit in the mail.


----------



## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

...


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Jeff_G said:


> Hey All,
> 
> My buddy is looking for a bike. He's an old school hard core biker looking to get back into the game. He is leaning towards a fat bike because he would like to ride in the winter.
> 
> ...


Go with the Sturgis NX. Add a bluto or carbon fork later.


----------



## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

I just put together a Sturgis NX 1x11 for a guy. That's a nice bike and a few notable upgrades over my kids Sturgis. 

Tires and tubes are much nicer. The tubes and rim strips were about half (guessing, exaggerating) the weight. The front through axle seems to not have the spacers loose like my kids bike. 

The drive train right out of the box shifted like fricken butter. 

I suggested my buddy get the same bike and put a Mastadon on it. Be in it for about $1,700.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

I popped open the bottom bracket last night on my Sturgis. Drive side was a nightmare! Full of rust and junk. Non drive side looked clean, but was not smooth at all. 

I flushed everything and repacked with fresh grease but it didn't help nearly enough. Will definitely need to replace the BB soon.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Casual_Rider (May 14, 2017)

Hi all, first post. I've been drooling over fat bikes for a while now, and I'm leaning towards the Sturgis NX. I currently own a Trek 7.3FX, which I like, but it has obvious terrain limitations. So I'm thinking a fat bike for sheer fun factor, and any time the Trek won't cut it (rough terrain, snow, etc). I'll probably look for some entry-level trails too.

So, two questions: (1) is this an appropriate "starter" fat bike? I don't want to go too cheap and get discouraged by something that's essentially disposable. But at my level, I doubt I'll notice the difference between decent entry-level and high-end. I do like the idea of 1x gearing. My Trek is 3x9, and it's really too much. I also want something that can support 5" tires. And I want to learn bicycle maintenance, so going Internet direct seems a good way to get my hands dirty.

(2) Assuming everyone agrees the Sturgis NX is a good match for me, what about sizing? Without shoes I'm 5'10" and 32" inch inseam (i.e. long legs/short torso). Add an inch with shoes. Per the bikesdirect sizing chart, that puts me in the 17.5/medium. My only hesitation is that my Trek 7.3 is a 20inch/large, and I find it pretty comfortable. Thoughts?

Thanks!


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

Casual_Rider said:


> Hi all, first post. I've been drooling over fat bikes for a while now, and I'm leaning towards the Sturgis NX.


 The Sturgis NX is definitely a capable fat bike and it is definitely NOT disposable with pretty competent components. As for size, I would say a Large would fit you better than a Medium given the fit guide for stand over height. However, a friend of mine who is 5'10" but with 30" inseam rides a Medium. So I guess I'm no help in the sizing department but I'm sure you'll be happy with the Sturgis NX for a long time.


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

I'm 5'11" and ride the 17.5 size. I ride in the snow so stand over height can be an issue on the next size up, but YMMV.


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## th1npower (Dec 6, 2010)

basso4735 said:


> I'm 5'11" and ride the 17.5 size. I ride in the snow so stand over height can be an issue on the next size up, but YMMV.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using And Tapatalk


Tony ride..

..I agree, I'm almost 6' with 32" inseam and love the medium! It's very manageable size wise in the snow.. especially a dismount into several inches of snow (smaller frame = ball saver).

Also, I rip the dirt with mine.. the fat tires climb everything - rock, dirt, loose gravel. No skinny tire slip/spin outs. Definitely go for something that can take up to 5" tires.

It's really an all year bike.. absolute blast! Hope you'll love it too!...

Happy riding, 
Micah


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## no sweat (Aug 21, 2014)

Casual_Rider said:


> Hi all, first post. I've been drooling over fat bikes for a while now, and I'm leaning towards the Sturgis NX. I currently own a Trek 7.3FX, which I like, but it has obvious terrain limitations. So I'm thinking a fat bike for sheer fun factor, and any time the Trek won't cut it (rough terrain, snow, etc). I'll probably look for some entry-level trails too.
> 
> So, two questions: (1) is this an appropriate "starter" fat bike? I don't want to go too cheap and get discouraged by something that's essentially disposable. But at my level, I doubt I'll notice the difference between decent entry-level and high-end. I do like the idea of 1x gearing. My Trek is 3x9, and it's really too much. I also want something that can support 5" tires. And I want to learn bicycle maintenance, so going Internet direct seems a good way to get my hands dirty.
> 
> ...


I'm 5'10", wear 32 inseam pants, ride a medium Night Train Bullet, perfect size. Recommend against the large.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Casual_Rider said:


> Hi all, first post. I've been drooling over fat bikes for a while now, and I'm leaning towards the Sturgis NX. I currently own a Trek 7.3FX, which I like, but it has obvious terrain limitations. So I'm thinking a fat bike for sheer fun factor, and any time the Trek won't cut it (rough terrain, snow, etc). I'll probably look for some entry-level trails too.
> 
> So, two questions: (1) is this an appropriate "starter" fat bike? I don't want to go too cheap and get discouraged by something that's essentially disposable. But at my level, I doubt I'll notice the difference between decent entry-level and high-end. I do like the idea of 1x gearing. My Trek is 3x9, and it's really too much. I also want something that can support 5" tires. And I want to learn bicycle maintenance, so going Internet direct seems a good way to get my hands dirty.
> 
> ...


I'm 6'-3" and ride the large. I think the med. would fit you best. The large is a pretty big bike. I even shortened the stem a little (10mm?) to get a little more upright for snow riding.

-F


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

basso4735 said:


> .. Will definitely need to replace the BB soon.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you just do bearings, please inform on where you got 'em.
Thanks!

-F


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## no sweat (Aug 21, 2014)

Fleas said:


> If you just do bearings, please inform on where you got 'em.
> Thanks!
> 
> -F


Are they #6806s?


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Xt/xtr bb works fine, 24mm.


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## Chipwright231 (Sep 13, 2015)

*New Sturgis NX 17.5 owner*

Just got my first fat bike on Friday. It will be used as my trail bike and beach cruising bike in Florida. Got out for a 15 mile trail ride Saturday and had a blast, cant wait to get it on the beach once I get it set up tubeless.


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## Mr. Long (Nov 17, 2016)

Hey Chipwright. Where are you in Florida?
My wife and I live on the east side of Orlando and hit Snowhill road during the week. On weekends we try to hit Santos and Alafia. I ride a Night Train NX and my wife rides a Boris.


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## Mr. Long (Nov 17, 2016)

Been fat fishing the St. Johns River, East of Orlando, FL.


__
https://flic.kr/p/SdcrxU


__
https://flic.kr/p/Tr7xxq


__
https://flic.kr/p/TuGySH


__
https://flic.kr/p/SUGQvL


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## Chipwright231 (Sep 13, 2015)

I'm down in Stuart, have been riding Halpatiokee park and the beach on Jupiter island so far. Need to make something up to carry a few rods to fish the beach, pompano have been everywhere this weekend.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Jeff_G said:


> I just put together a Sturgis NX 1x11 for a guy. That's a nice bike and a
> I suggested my buddy get the same bike and put a Mastadon on it. Be in it for about $1,700.


I'm running that setup and so far I'm pretty happy. I had to upgrade the rear hub to a DT swiss though.


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## aflage (Nov 17, 2016)

*Night Train Bullet bottom bracket question*

Greetings everyone,

I've had my NTB Ti for about 6 months now and have been pretty happy with it. Unfortunately, about a month ago it developed a 'tick' sound when i stand on it or crank pretty hard in the 3 or 9-oclock position. I was pretty sure it was the BB, and sure enough it didn't look too pretty when I pulled it out (see attached pictures). The outer shells are cracking where they mate up with the sleeve. Does anyone have any idea what would cause this failure? Over torquing during installation? Perhaps the Ti frame flexes too much in this area? I'm 160 lbs, so I kind of doubt that this is the issue.

Meanwhile, bikesdirect requires that I go into a LBS and they have to handle a warranty claim thru Race Face. I'm not sure how well that's going to go... and based on my experience so far, I'm not sure I want another Race Face part.

Thanks in advance for any input!


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## no sweat (Aug 21, 2014)

It's hard to visualize a mechanism by which that damage could occur while installed in the bike.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

aflage said:


> I'm not sure how well that's going to go... and based on my experience so far, I'm not sure I want another Race Face part.


I have the older version of the NTB, and my bottom bracket creaks annoyingly. I have pulled it apart, cleaned, and greased the bearings, but I would like to replace them.

I was all set to get the newer spec RaceFace bearings, but I am not sure they are optimal for wet environments.

So I also would like to replace, but I am not sure which bearings to use.

Could anyone recommend us a better unit?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Headset Question:

This is for a 2015 NTB. I need to replace the original headset. I replaced the Bluto fork with a rigid carbon. I put it all together but I noticed some binding in the headset. I am hoping to remedy this with a new one. Is this just a simple tapered HS for this frame/fork combo, and will this one work?....

Brand: FSA
- Model: Orbit C-40
- Color: Black (show as photo)
- QTY: 1 SET (With top cap and starnut), the same pictures
- Stack Height 8+0.8=8.8mm
- Weight - 73 g (without top cap and starnut)

—1-1/8in Upper,1.5in Bottom
—45 degrees/ 45 degrees ACB Upper
—1.5in 36 degrees/ 45 degrees ACB Lower (compatible with carbon or alloy headtubes)
—For tapered 46mm/56mm OD headtube (= 42mm/52mm ID headtube)
—For tapered fork steerer 1.5in to 1-1/8in
—Alloy top cover
—Upper: Campy Angular Contact Bearings (black seal)
—Lower: 1.5in 36 degrees/45 degrees Angular Contact Bearings


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## longknives (Jul 13, 2017)

*2017 Sturgis NX*



KTMNealio said:


> I'm running that setup and so far I'm pretty happy. I had to upgrade the rear hub to a DT swiss though.


Is this the hub you used?

https://www.amazon.com/DT-Swiss-Ride-12x197mm-Center/dp/B00UXM9YBQ


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

longknives said:


> Is this the hub you used?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/DT-Swiss-Ride-12x197mm-Center/dp/B00UXM9YBQ


I got the 6 bolt disk version, but yes that is the hub.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=80813


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## RiDDiCK51PB (Jul 15, 2017)

Tentatively planning on buying a 2017 Motobecane Sturgis.

In addition, I reheheally want 100mm rims. Any guesses on the minimum it would cost to outfit the Sturgis with 100mm wheels (black) at some point? If that sort of undertaking is even possible. If it can't be done, I'll just throw in the white towel and get a fuji wendigo 26 2.1. Dang, want that Sturgis tho.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

I'm perfectly happy with the 80mm MuleFut rims. It can accommodate 5.0 tires no problem which I think is the widest tire you can get.


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## RiDDiCK51PB (Jul 15, 2017)

tonyride1 said:


> I'm perfectly happy with the 80mm MuleFut rims. It can accommodate 5.0 tires no problem which I think is the widest tire you can get.


thank you for your feedback. that should alleviate my case of the jitters during this purchase decision.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I'm running 100mm Turnagain rims tubeless with Bud/FBR and they're awesome on my NTB. They fit without an issue but more than 18 psi in the Bluto and the Bud rubs. No issue with any pressure in the rear FBR. I bought the wife a Boris the Evil Brut just so we can swap wheels back and forth since we have 4 sets, two Mulefuts and two Turnagain FR100's.


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## RiDDiCK51PB (Jul 15, 2017)

Dilligaff said:


> I'm running 100mm Turnagain rims tubeless with Bud/FBR and they're awesome on my NTB. They fit without an issue but more than 18 psi in the Bluto and the Bud rubs. No issue with any pressure in the rear FBR. I bought the wife a Boris the Evil Brut just so we can swap wheels back and forth since we have 4 sets, two Mulefuts and two Turnagain FR100's.


that sounds like an ideal setup, for sure.


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## no sweat (Aug 21, 2014)

Night Train / Sturgis tip of the day: grease the rear through axle. I've been chasing squeaks and creaks in the BB area (2x pedal rate creaks) for a couple of weeks... and most of the problem turned out to be the rear thru axle. Gawd but it's nice to have a quiet bike again.

The upside is that just about every metal/metal junction on my bike has been cleaned, inspected and greased now.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I have chased down the creaking on my Night Train Ti to the bottom bracket and want to replace it, not just the bearings, since I have the same corrosion posted here. I saw a post about other companies making a replacement BB but can't find it now. Can anyone link to better alternatives than the RaceFace X-Type BB with stock Turbine cranks?


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## no sweat (Aug 21, 2014)

Dilligaff said:


> I have chased down the creaking on my Night Train Ti to the bottom bracket and want to replace it, not just the bearings, since I have the same corrosion posted here. I saw a post about other companies making a replacement BB but can't find it now. Can anyone link to better alternatives than the RaceFace X-Type BB with stock Turbine cranks?


I'll likely buy the stainless steel bearing version when the time comes. RWC BSA 30 BOTTOM BRACKET w/ANGULAR CONTACT BEARINGS


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Since I've had good results with them in the past, I ordered a Phil Wood BB and will report back. While not cheap, I don't mind paying for quality if it solves the problem.


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## no sweat (Aug 21, 2014)

Dilligaff said:


> Since I've had good results with them in the past, I ordered a Phil Wood BB and will report back. While not cheap, I don't mind paying for quality if it solves the problem.


Link? I can't seem to find a Phil BB compatible with the Turbine crankset.


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## NuckaMan (Dec 10, 2007)

First Fatbike, didn’t want to break the bank so I bought a Boris off Bikes Direct. Less than 200 miles old so far. I like it so far. Fatbikes do draw a lot of attention!!!


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

no sweat said:


> Link? I can't seem to find a Phil BB compatible with the Turbine crankset.


Fits awesome, no creaking and smooth as silk. I couldn't be happier. I bought a blue one.

Phil Wood & Co.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Dilligaff said:


> Fits awesome, no creaking and smooth as silk. I couldn't be happier. I bought a blue one.
> 
> Phil Wood & Co.


Stainless or aluminum?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## no sweat (Aug 21, 2014)

Dilligaff said:


> Fits awesome, no creaking and smooth as silk. I couldn't be happier. I bought a blue one.
> 
> Phil Wood & Co.


That's a 25mm ID bearing set. It doesn't fit the 30mm axle of the Turbine Cinch crankset.

????


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

no sweat said:


> That's a 25mm ID bearing set. It doesn't fit the 30mm axle of the Turbine Cinch crankset.
> 
> ????


Is that the size of the earlier Samos crank from the 2015/6 models?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

no sweat said:


> That's a 25mm ID bearing set. It doesn't fit the 30mm axle of the Turbine Cinch crankset.
> 
> ????


Mine is a 2016 model and has the standard Turbine crankset, not the Cinch. None of them I have seen come with the Cinch.


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## Casual_Rider (May 14, 2017)

I've been reading about and drooling over fat bikes for... I've lost track of how long. I had my eye on the Sturgis NX, but it looks sold out in my size (17.5). I figured I should at least do a test drive of *a* fat bike before dropping $1k+ on it. So I test drove a 2017 Trek Farley 7 at my LBS this past weekend. It was every bit as fun as I thought it would be. It's like a human-powered dirtbike!

So I just pulled the trigger on the 2018 NightTrain Express. Looks like it won't ship until the first half of September.

This will be my first time assembling a bike. I see BD has lots of videos on assembly tips, so I'm not too worried about that. I want to get more familiar with DIY bike maintenance anyway, so I thought this would be a good way to force me to learn.

So, while I anxiously wait... any general assembly tips that may not be immediately obvious to a newbie? What tools or other supplies should I get in the meantime so the assembly can go smoothly once the bike is delivered? Seems I've seen a few references to people disassembling some components, adding lube/grease, then re-assembling. Anyone care to offer a short list of things that might be sub-optimal from the factory? What kind of lube does everyone use?

Thanks!


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## hectorlandaeta (Oct 17, 2013)

In my experience, higher priced Motobacons don't have the lube issues frequently reported on the Gravity's. To reassembly your bike you'll need a 5mm Allen wrench and a presta valve air pump. Perhaps another size mm Allen or two, depending on your seat's hardware. Got pedals? They typically ship with some POS resin ones that are not worth even taking out of their shrink pack. If you're on a budget Race Face Chesters are a nice value.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

All of the Allen keys on my NTB are either 4, 5, or 6mm, and it shipped without any pedals.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hectorlandaeta (Oct 17, 2013)

Also forgot that one of the typical cost cutting places in Motobacons is the saddle. Can't recommend enough the Ergon "sofa". You place your butt on one of those and you won't get back. Grips are a must update item too.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk


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## Casual_Rider (May 14, 2017)

Thanks for the feedback! Despite saying it wouldn't ship until September, I actually received it today!.

General assembly was a breeze... but I'm stuck on the front disc break.

As-shipped, the pads were too close together to fit around the rotor. So I loosed the caliper bolt basically all the way, and shoved the plastic spacer tool in between the pads to separate them a bit. I was able to get the break mounted to the frame, but the pads rubbed something awful on the rotor.

Per this video I first loosened the bolts that hold the break assembly to the frame. I squeezed the break lever, but they were still so tight that I still couldn't keep them from rubbing. (Just by eye-balling the pads, they look way too close together compared to the thickness of the rotor.)

So I went to step two from the same video and removed the pads entirely. I tried to use that plastic spacer tool to push the pistons back, but they didn't appear to budge.

Then I think I did something stupid: I squeezed the break lever while the pads were out. This caused one of the pistons to actually pop out, and with it a bunch of fluid came out.

I re-set the piston, and re-installed the break pads. They still rub on the rotor. And it appears I've lost all pressure in the break level itself, as squeezing it has virtually no resistance, and it doesn't activate what little room is left in the breaks.

What next?

Thanks!


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

Just get the correct fluid and fill it back up and bleed it properly. I never bled these brakes but I did Shimano XT several times and it's not a very big job at all. Once you do it once it takes maybe 15 min to do.


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## Casual_Rider (May 14, 2017)

Casual_Rider said:


> Then I think I did something stupid: I squeezed the break lever while the pads were out. This caused one of the pistons to actually pop out, and with it a bunch of fluid came out.





dariusf said:


> Just get the correct fluid and fill it back up and bleed it properly. I never bled these brakes but I did Shimano XT several times and it's not a very big job at all. Once you do it once it takes maybe 15 min to do.


As far as I can tell, the bleeder kits (fluid, syringes, bleeder block) are fairly expensive, $40 to $100 depending on brand, fanciness, etc. One LBS I talked to said if my SRAM Guide RS brakes are the latest model, they require a special coupling between syringe and brake. Most of the LBSes around here only charge $40 for a brake bleed service. While I want to learn DIY bike maintenance, I'm also impatient to actually get some miles on this thing! And how often do you really need to do a brake bleed anyway (i.e., surely learning _that_ particular skill can wait).

Being Saturday, many LBSes around here won't do a same-day bleed service, but I found one that would. When I took the bike in and told the serviceman what happened, he said, "Oh, the piston shouldn't fall out like that." He actually got on the phone with SRAM directly. SRAM said the re-seating I did probably won't cut it, and that the brake might need to be rebuilt completely (or replaced), otherwise it's likely to end up leaking brake fluid. He told the service guy to hold off working on it until he talks with an SRAM engineer. Being the weekend, I might not find out for a couple days what's going to happen.

Then I told the LBS guy to hold off, this ought to fall under warranty. He said that's very unlikely since technically this is user negligence. I shouldn't have pulled the brake lever without the pads or a bleeder block in there. OK, at the shop it will stay.

So... I guess I _am_ learning about DIY maintenance... just didn't expect an expensive lesson right from the get-go. For any other newbies out there like me, take your time with the non-obvious stuff like hydraulic brakes!


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## Casual_Rider (May 14, 2017)

I'm assuming everyone else likes pictures as much as I do... Here's my new NTE, next to my Trek 7.3FX.


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

Casual_Rider said:


> As far as I can tell, the bleeder kits (fluid, syringes, bleeder block) are fairly expensive, $40 to $100 depending on brand, fanciness, etc. One LBS I talked to said if my SRAM Guide RS brakes are the latest model, they require a special coupling between syringe and brake. Most of the LBSes around here only charge $40 for a brake bleed service. While I want to learn DIY bike maintenance, I'm also impatient to actually get some miles on this thing! And how often do you really need to do a brake bleed anyway (i.e., surely learning _that_ particular skill can wait).


I hear you but my thoughts are following at least in my case  I have 8 bikes (wife 1, kids 4, my 3) and 6 of them have hydraulic disk brakes and I do all of the maintenance other than complete rebuilds of shocks. Under normal circumstances you should not have to bleed brakes much, once every couple years depending on your riding conditions and how much you ride. The bleeding kit is ~$50 and a large bottle of fluid under $20. With that I can do at least a couple dozen changes if not more. Once you do one you can do next around 20 min tops. If needed I'm back on the road in under half an hour.

Alternative is taking your bike to the LBS and in many cases leaving there for about a week on top of the cost.

I'm all for supporting LBS but but in the end of the day 1) I enjoy working on my bikes 2) It is my money 3) speed of getting something done



> Being Saturday, many LBSes around here won't do a same-day bleed service, but I found one that would. When I took the bike in and told the serviceman what happened, he said, "Oh, the piston shouldn't fall out like that." He actually got on the phone with SRAM directly. SRAM said the re-seating I did probably won't cut it, and that the brake might need to be rebuilt completely (or replaced), otherwise it's likely to end up leaking brake fluid. He told the service guy to hold off working on it until he talks with an SRAM engineer. Being the weekend, I might not find out for a couple days what's going to happen.


I call it complete BS but what do I know  Your pistons will push out all the way if you keep pressing the lever with no pads or bleeding block in it. Its normal mechanical function, they are making far too big of a deal out of it. you open up the top cover in the reserver, push in the piston with something that will not damage it, bleed. It's not like the piston fell out by itself due to some defect... One other thing I would say that if you choose to take your bike(s) to LBS make sure you find a good one. I have 5 in my immediate area and unfortunately the staff at 2 of them are complete a holes.

Sorry to hear you are out of the bike, that really sucks.. good luck getting this taken care of.


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

Casual_Rider said:


> I'm assuming everyone else likes pictures as much as I do... Here's my new NTE, next to my Trek 7.3FX.


Thats a great color, here are a few pics of my (highly modded and frame has custom powder coating).


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

Well I'm about to pull the trigger on a medium Sturgis for the wife. Any chance there are any used bikes for sale out there?


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

Troy Carter said:


> Well I'm about to pull the trigger on a medium Sturgis for the wife. Any chance there are any used bikes for sale out there?


My orange in the pics above is for sale but it's a small

Small 15.5"
Rider Height Range: 5'5" to 5'8"
Effective Top Tube Length: 22.6 inches
Standover: 27.8 inches


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## Casual_Rider (May 14, 2017)

I finally took the new NTE out for a spin!



hectorlandaeta said:


> Also forgot that one of the typical cost cutting places in Motobacons is the saddle. Can't recommend enough the Ergon "sofa". You place your butt on one of those and you won't get back. Grips are a must update item too.


Saddle seems OK, at least for now. But the stock grips suck. I didn't expect them to be _that_ bad, but I think they're roughly on-par with wrapping some electrical tape around the naked bar!  Is there a favorite high-value grip? I really like stock ergonomic grips on my 2016 Trek FX7.3; I was thinking that Ergon GP1 looks to be similar.

Regarding the front brake issue...



dariusf said:


> <snip>
> I call it complete BS but what do I know  Your pistons will push out all the way if you keep pressing the lever with no pads or bleeding block in it. Its normal mechanical function, they are making far too big of a deal out of it. you open up the top cover in the reserver, push in the piston with something that will not damage it, bleed. It's not like the piston fell out by itself due to some defect... One other thing I would say that if you choose to take your bike(s) to LBS make sure you find a good one. I have 5 in my immediate area and unfortunately the staff at 2 of them are complete a holes.


At any rate, I got the bike back yesterday. The LBS mechanic says he spoke with an SRAM engineer, who said that for the Guide RS series, it's a 50/50 chance whether or not the seal is broken when the piston comes out. The LBS guy said he went ahead and bled the brake, then (per SRAM engineer instruction) waited six hours to see if it leaked. It didn't, so he sent the bike home with me.

Now, in the shop and walking the bike out to my car, the brake seemed OK. But when actually riding it, it has basically zero stopping power. It puts a little friction on the rotor, but at any speed above a slow walking pace, it does nothing to actually stop the bike. (Whereas the rear brake will completely lock the wheel up.) Despite that, I don't see any signs of leakage.

Any thoughts on how to best approach this?

I think I'm going to buy a bleeder kit and bleed it myself. Need to learn to do that anyway. I.e., maybe the LBS guy just did a lousy job bleeding it/didn't get all the air out. If that still doesn't fix it, dunno.


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

Hey Casual_Rider, did your LBS change out the brakes pads as well? 
In my experience, you can feel a bad bleed at the lever... so I'm thinking the pads may be contaminated.
Try swapping the pads from the rear to the front (assuming your rears are good)... making sure to clean the rotors w/ isopropyl alcohol first & then and see if there's a difference.


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## Casual_Rider (May 14, 2017)

cfanto said:


> Hey Casual_Rider, did your LBS change out the brakes pads as well?
> In my experience, you can feel a bad bleed at the lever... so I'm thinking the pads may be contaminated.
> Try swapping the pads from the rear to the front (assuming your rears are good)... making sure to clean the rotors w/ isopropyl alcohol first & then and see if there's a difference.


They did not change out the pads. When you say, "you can feel a bad bleed at the lever", can you expand on that a bit? The front brake does feel "mushy" to me. You can pull it all the way to the grip. The LBS said, as he handed the bike to me, "this should tighten up after you pump it a bit." I took his word for it; but it never did tighten up. (In hindsight I should have drove around the parking lot before hauling it home. I said I wanted to learn with this bike and learn I am!)

But I like your suggestion to swap front and back pads. Zero cost and not too hard! (Makes me think I should have thought of it.)


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

Casual_Rider,

Based on your description, a pad swap may not be valid - it sounds like either a crappy bleed job from your LBS or the piston seals were possibly damaged when they popped out causing air leaks. However if the seals were bad, I would expect to see fluid on the caliper - does the bottom of the caliper look/feel wet?
If your brakes were properly bled, you shouldn't have to pump them up to get them firm - odd to have the shop tell you that. When you get the bike back from them, the brakes are supposed to be firm & ready to go. When my brakes are at the point where I have to pump them to firm them up, or levers pull all the way to the bar, or feel mushy - that's when I bleed them. Brakes should not do any of that after a proper bleed.


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

dariusf said:


> My orange in the pics above is for sale but it's a small
> 
> Small 15.5"
> Rider Height Range: 5'5" to 5'8"
> ...


Looks like a great bike there! But, I think I'm convinced on the medium frame for her. She's 5'-9" and although I think she could pull off a small frame I'd rather have the medium and put a short stem on it than a small with a longer stem.

Thanks


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

cfanto said:


> Hey Casual_Rider, did your LBS change out the brakes pads as well?
> In my experience, you can feel a bad bleed at the lever... so I'm thinking the pads may be contaminated.
> Try swapping the pads from the rear to the front (assuming your rears are good)... making sure to clean the rotors w/ isopropyl alcohol first & then and see if there's a difference.


Very good advice, please try this. Do clean the rotors and brake caliper itself to make sure there is no mineral oil left that could contaminate the rear pads. Also unless you are doing downhills you should not have that much need for front brakes so I would ride but still work on getting it fixes


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

I tried to buy a Sturgis NX, but it was sold out. This gave me time to fret over this purchase even more and read almost all the pages here. Some questions:

1. In the beginning many derailleur hanger issues, but they re-designed. Is this still an issue with new bikes? i realize this forum is just a subset of the general population and only people with problems post to complain. I understand what the hangers do, I broke one last year on a different bike due to chain break. 
2. Seems the rear hubs cause problems. Not only expensive, but also cumbersome to change since it requires wheel re-built. Was there any improvement on new bikes or newer hubs? I realize this is out of the hands of BD (except speccing Novatec). But I see "brand" name bikes like Trek or Specialized either don't tell you want hubs they use to begin with, or use their own OEM brand. So this seems more an industry than BD problem. Obviously it would be my problem if it happened to me.... 
3. For sizing I'm 6' tall, 180#, 34"inseam and have long arms (always problem finding sweaters etc. with long enough arms). I also plan to snow-ride. Per sizing chart 6' is right between the M (17.5") and L (19"). It seems people here are happier with going the smaller size? I know they have their language for "personal preference and sizing up for more aggressive". Obviously without trying it out it is hard to tell. I test rode a Trek Farley and it was one with suspended fork in M, and one with rigid fork in L and I couldn't tell a difference. I know there have been 100 comments on that already, why not one more? With the steep head tube standover height seems to be an issue (also noticed that on Trek and Specialized fatbikes I tried). 
4. Since they are sold out and I have to wait, I wonder when they change their model year? Maybe i should wait for 2018 models? I want 1x11 drivetrain and would hope over time they offer more 1x11 and get rid of the 2x10 or 2x11. Would give me more choices over the few 1x11 they have now. I have bicycles to ride and can wait till snow 
5. How often do they re-stock? I tried checking out some other bikes (just for testing) and bare frames, but nothing really available. there wasn't even a pre-order option I saw (and I'm not excited about paying and then waiting for ages)


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

HerrKaLeun said:


> I tried to buy a Sturgis NX, but it was sold out. This gave me time to fret over this purchase even more and read almost all the pages here. Some questions:
> 
> 1. In the beginning many derailleur hanger issues, but they re-designed. Is this still an issue with new bikes? i realize this forum is just a subset of the general population and only people with problems post to complain. I understand what the hangers do, I broke one last year on a different bike due to chain break.
> 2. Seems the rear hubs cause problems. Not only expensive, but also cumbersome to change since it requires wheel re-built. Was there any improvement on new bikes or newer hubs? I realize this is out of the hands of BD (except speccing Novatec). But I see "brand" name bikes like Trek or Specialized either don't tell you want hubs they use to begin with, or use their own OEM brand. So this seems more an industry than BD problem. Obviously it would be my problem if it happened to me....
> ...


I've had my 2014 Sturgis since early 2015.
1) My drlr hanger has survived a few hits and adjustments (bends), but I am on my 3rd one. That is way more than any other bike I've ever owned, BUT the drlr really hangs out there with these 197mm rear ends, so maybe it just comes with the territory.
2) My rear hub has been just fine, but I have been vigilant. I don't allow any looseness, and I keep the ratchet clean and properly lubed. Cold weather can stiffen up some lubes and affect the engagement.
3) I'm 6'-3" on a large. I even got away with a shorter stem, so I'd say they run a little on the big side. Medium for a 6-footer sounds right.
4) I ordered mine in Nov. and didn't get it until Feb. (dock workers strike). It was a 2014. Don't know about 1x11. I'm running 2x10 (actually 2x8 - took out 2 middle cogs) and really like it for what I do. If you wait, prices may go up.
5) Don't know.

-F


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## Casual_Rider (May 14, 2017)

HerrKaLeun said:


> I tried to buy a 1. In the beginning many derailleur hanger issues, but they re-designed. Is this still an issue with new bikes? i realize this forum is just a subset of the general population and only people with problems post to complain. I understand what the hangers do, I broke one last year on a different bike due to chain break.


I just received the Night Train Express (NTE). It's the same frame as the Sturgis. I too wanted the Sturgis NX, but it was sold out. Not wanting to wait I opened up the wallet a bit farther and got the NTE. Still 1x gearing, which is something I definitely wanted. It also has other small component upgrades (GX vs NX gears, carbon fork, etc).

I just got mine so haven't abused it at all yet. But I noticed it did ship with spare derailleur hanger. Not sure what to make of that...



HerrKaLeun said:


> 2. Seems the rear hubs cause problems. Not only expensive, but also cumbersome to change since it requires wheel re-built. Was there any improvement on new bikes or newer hubs? I realize this is out of the hands of BD (except speccing Novatec). But I see "brand" name bikes like Trek or Specialized either don't tell you want hubs they use to begin with, or use their own OEM brand. So this seems more an industry than BD problem. Obviously it would be my problem if it happened to me....


Way too soon for me to tell. I'll just keep an eye on this thread, try to take good care of the hub (and bike in general), and hope for the best.



HerrKaLeun said:


> 3. For sizing I'm 6' tall, 180#, 34"inseam and have long arms (always problem finding sweaters etc. with long enough arms). I also plan to snow-ride. Per sizing chart 6' is right between the M (17.5") and L (19"). It seems people here are happier with going the smaller size? I know they have their language for "personal preference and sizing up for more aggressive". Obviously without trying it out it is hard to tell. I test rode a Trek Farley and it was one with suspended fork in M, and one with rigid fork in L and I couldn't tell a difference. I know there have been 100 comments on that already, why not one more? ...


I wear pants with a 34" inseam. But if I measure my "true" inseam, without shoes, it's 32". The shoes I generally wear take me up to 33" inseam. I'm about 5'10" barefoot (add an inch for shoes). I have longish arms, though not overly long.

I too test drove a 2017 Trek Farley 7 with a rigid fork, size L. It seemed to fit OK.

I ended up getting the 17.5/M NTE, though strongly considered the large. I'm glad I got the medium: the standover height is a little higher than I expected. I suspect the large would be risky for my man parts.

Keep in mind, I've only done one ride, but I don't see any size issues with the medium. Feels pretty comfortable to me, actually.

FWIW, I also have a 2016 Trek 7.3 size 20/large, and I find it pretty comfortable.



HerrKaLeun said:


> 5. How often do they re-stock? I tried checking out some other bikes (just for testing) and bare frames, but nothing really available. there wasn't even a pre-order option I saw (and I'm not excited about paying and then waiting for ages)


No idea. I think you'd have to call or email BD to know for sure. The sales page for the NightTrain Express is for the 2018 model, and says it won't ship until sept 1 through 15. I ordered on Sat, Aug 12 and they shipped Mon, Aug 14. The box indicates I got the 2017 model. So the listing page clearly isn't 100% accurate!


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

HerrKaLeun said:


> I tried to buy a Sturgis NX, but it was sold out. This gave me time to fret over this purchase even more and read almost all the pages here. Some questions:
> 
> 1. In the beginning many derailleur hanger issues, but they re-designed. Is this still an issue with new bikes? i realize this forum is just a subset of the general population and only people with problems post to complain. I understand what the hangers do, I broke one last year on a different bike due to chain break.
> 2. Seems the rear hubs cause problems. Not only expensive, but also cumbersome to change since it requires wheel re-built. Was there any improvement on new bikes or newer hubs? I realize this is out of the hands of BD (except speccing Novatec). But I see "brand" name bikes like Trek or Specialized either don't tell you want hubs they use to begin with, or use their own OEM brand. So this seems more an industry than BD problem. Obviously it would be my problem if it happened to me....
> ...


1 - After reading all the horror stories, I kept telling myself I need to order a hanger soon. I've had my Sturgis Bullet for a couple years now & I still haven't bought a spare hanger yet. I'm probably one of the lucky few that has never had a problem (knock on wood). The bike has had only one big crash on it (not by me though) and I always lay my bikes on the ground on their non-drive side.

2 - I haven't had any issues w/ my hubs & I love to ride in the rain & mud. However, last year I did regrease the hubs when I bought a Lurch with Mulefuts - I wanted to swap the wheelset over to the Sturgis which required an axle swap (QR vs TA).

3 - I can't help you with sizing as I'm 5'6" and purchased the small. The 26" fatty's are essentially 29ers and that increases both stand-over & stack-height. While I feel comfortable riding a medium in 27.5 & 26, I felt small would be a better fit w/ regards to fattys or 29ers. Somewhere in this thread someone mentioned stand-over being important if you regularly ride in the snow... but you also have to account for the reach/effective top tube length as well - you don't want to feel cramped on the bike.

4 - yeah, I kinda wished I had waited a couple more months... damn, impulse buy! Mine came with the crappy Wienmann's & Samox. Then a couple months later, the next batch came out w/ Mulefut's, RaceFace cranks, & Maxxis Minions.

5 - I was in the same boat - they were out of the color & size Sturgis I wanted. But I didn't want to commit (in case I found a deal on another fatty) so I just checked the site daily & subscribed to their email alerts.

Good luck!


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

Troy Carter said:


> Looks like a great bike there! But, I think I'm convinced on the medium frame for her. She's 5'-9" and although I think she could pull off a small frame I'd rather have the medium and put a short stem on it than a small with a longer stem.
> 
> Thanks


Keep in mind if you get a suspension fork it adds about 1" to the standover. I'm about 5'9" and seem to have ape arms so I felt a little scrunched on a small. Wasn't a fan of the feel of a 100mm stem. Wasn't comfortable with going medium due to standover in snow. Used that as a reason/excuse to get a different brand frame with a curved top tube for better standover.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Just got and assembled a Sturgis NX, to replace an SE [email protected] I'm very happy with what I got for the money. I'll be taking full preventative measures on the rear hub to see if I can keep it from self-destructing in short order. The stem is disposable and the bars questionable, but other than that it's a fine machine. I'm 6' and wear a 34" inseam, and the fit of the 19" is spot-on. Mine also came with a spare derailleur hanger.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Anyone have a 19" Sturgis frame they want to sell?
I am convinced that I bent mine even though I can't measure it. It just doesn't ride right.
Bikesdirect can't help me now because they have no extra frames, and I don't want to spend the ~$600+ and end up with yet another Bluto.

Thanks,
-F


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## Casual_Rider (May 14, 2017)

no sweat said:


> Night Train / Sturgis tip of the day: grease the rear through axle. I've been chasing squeaks and creaks in the BB area (2x pedal rate creaks) for a couple of weeks... and most of the problem turned out to be the rear thru axle. Gawd but it's nice to have a quiet bike again.


Forgive my newbie question, but is that as simple as it sounds? I.e., pull axle out, smear with grease, put axle back in and go? Or is there some subtlety that I'm missing? Regular lube like Park Tool PPL-1 PolyLube 1000?

An update on my front brake situation for those who may be interested...



cfanto said:


> Hey Casual_Rider, did your LBS change out the brakes pads as well?
> In my experience, you can feel a bad bleed at the lever... so I'm thinking the pads may be contaminated.
> Try swapping the pads from the rear to the front (assuming your rears are good)... making sure to clean the rotors w/ isopropyl alcohol first & then and see if there's a difference
> 
> ...


I finally received my bleed kit. My NTE has the newer SRAM Guide series brakes that require the "bleeding edge" tool. The first bleed kit I ordered didn't have that. Looks like Avid/Sram has released several bleed kits over the years. Amazon sells multiple versions, some listings even have inconsistent pictures. I ended up ordering this kit.

The bleed process took me a little while, mainly because it was my first time and I went slowly, stopping several times to re-watch the howto video. But like everyone here said, it will be quick and easy the next time I do it.

At any rate, having done the bleed, I can confidently say that the LBS did a lousy job. Not only did they return the bike with mushy/poorly bled brakes, but the safety pin for the pad screw is missing; also they did not replace the rubber bleed plug on the calipers. (Hmmm, maybe there was a reason they were the only ones who didn't have a backlog when I called around a couple weeks ago?) It's been not quite 24 hours since I did the bleed, but the brakes are firm (moreso than my rear brake now!), and have some legitimate stopping power. I also don't see any leaking brake fluid, so I'm pretty sure the piston seals are good.

The only thing now, I still can't completely lock up the front wheel the same as the back. There is some definite friction there, and it really does slow the bike down. Maybe completely locking the front wheel is unsafe anyway? But now I'm wondering if perhaps I didn't get some brake fluid on the pads when first screwed up? Likewise, the LBS's quality of work is suspect, maybe they got some fluid on the pads?

I cleaned the rotors (front and back) with rubbing alcohol. I haven't yet swapped the pads between front and back yet though. Looks like pads aren't too expensive. Even if I don't actually need the pads, it can't hurt to have a spare set, right?

Thanks all for the help and feedback! I feel pretty accomplished having bled those brakes.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Just swapped my bottom bracket, the old one had completely failed.

I have the older Samox crank, and swapped the stock bottom bracket with a higher-end raceface unit.

I used this:
Race Face Team DH X-Type Bottom Bracket https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003RLE7SA/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apip_usObYGtT71jhc

The never ending creak is gone, too.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cfanto (Oct 13, 2010)

Casual_Rider said:


> The only thing now, I still can't completely lock up the front wheel the same as the back. There is some definite friction there, and it really does slow the bike down. Maybe completely locking the front wheel is unsafe anyway? But now I'm wondering if perhaps I didn't get some brake fluid on the pads when first screwed up? Likewise, the LBS's quality of work is suspect, maybe they got some fluid on the pads?
> 
> I cleaned the rotors (front and back) with rubbing alcohol. I haven't yet swapped the pads between front and back yet though. Looks like pads aren't too expensive. Even if I don't actually need the pads, it can't hurt to have a spare set, right?


Having a spare set of pads is always handy but I would try bedding-in the brakes first. 
Before the bed-in process, I'll usually take sandpaper & lightly sand both pads (& sometimes) the rotor and then clean 'em w/ rubbing alcohol afterwards. 
The actual bed-in process consists of several hard stops which helps deposit pad material onto the rotors.
I usually just do this on the street in front of my house - go as fast as I can & then hit the brakes really hard - usually after a few runs, they should start to feel more 'grabby'.

You should always bed-in brakes when you get new pads or rotors.

If you believe the pads are contaminated, you're supposed to junk them. However, I've had (some) luck in the past with burning off the oils from pads (using a heat gun or even a simple lighter) - you'll see black smoke rising from the pads when it gets hot enough. I've heard of some folks baking them in the oven... but personally, I wouldn't want fumes in my house. BTW, this should only be done on sintered pads! Do not do try to burn or bake organic pads.

Hope that helps!


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## H.Seaward (Dec 18, 2010)

I did an overhaul on my night train this weekend and I think I lost the rear hub caps (black plastic piece that goes on each end of the axel). Does anyone know what size they are so I can order some? Thanks.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

H.Seaward said:


> I did an overhaul on my night train this weekend and I think I lost the rear hub caps (black plastic piece that goes on each end of the axel). Does anyone know what size they are so I can order some? Thanks.


Do you mean these?









You can get by without them.
(btw - that's not the right one)

-F


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## H.Seaward (Dec 18, 2010)

Fleas said:


> Do you mean these?
> 
> View attachment 1157395
> 
> ...


No, there are similar ones on the front wheel. 
They are needed otherwise the TA won't tighten down properly.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

H.Seaward said:


> No, there are similar ones on the front wheel.
> They are needed otherwise the TA won't tighten down properly.


On the rear of the Sturgis/Night Train, the thru-axle threads into the derailleur hanger, which, I thought, was held to the frame with a small bolt. The other end of the axle is the lever by which you tighten the axle, then secure it against rotation.
I think I am misunderstanding you.

All that stuff is aluminum.

-F


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## H.Seaward (Dec 18, 2010)

Fleas said:


> On the rear of the Sturgis/Night Train, the thru-axle threads into the derailleur hanger, which, I thought, was held to the frame with a small bolt. The other end of the axle is the lever by which you tighten the axle, then secure it against rotation.
> I think I am misunderstanding you.
> 
> -F


Correct. But you can only tighten the TA so far. Then I flip the lever and there is no tension. It just flops around. So what I'm thinking is I lost the spacers that go on the ends of the hub (like the front) If there were hub spindle caps it would create more tension allowing the TA to tighten properly.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

H.Seaward said:


> Correct. But you can only tighten the TA so far. Then I flip the lever and there is no tension. It just flops around. So what I'm thinking is I lost the spacers that go on the ends of the hub (like the front) If there were hub spindle caps it would create more tension allowing the TA to tighten properly.


Look in under the lever. There is a small allen head in there. Set your lever tension with that screw (after you have screwed the axle down tight).

-F


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## H.Seaward (Dec 18, 2010)

Fleas said:


> Look in under the lever. There is a small allen head in there. Set your lever tension with that screw (after you have screwed the axle down tight).
> 
> -F


Ok. Thanks. I'll try that tonight.


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## th1npower (Dec 6, 2010)

^^ Don't over-tighten that little screw though as it will only take about 5-6 Nm torque before it will break..  the good thing it's easy to drill / EZ-out and a readily available size at the local hardware store.

Make sure you add some blue loc-tite to the non-drive hub nut/axle spacer!! They tend to loosen over time then your freehub will destroy itself (the ratchet ring and/or pawls), along w/ the hub. Every new hub that I have w/ this new style of axle/freehub I've had long-term success w/ the blue loc-tite and frequent checks of the freehub body (wiggle the cassette) to make sure it's not coming loose.


Happy riding,
Micah


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## H.Seaward (Dec 18, 2010)

I tightened that screw a bit and it locked down better. I'm still a little concerned I am missing those caps though. I emailed bikes direct and they said they can send me some, but never specified that I needed them.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

I just got the Sturgis NX an everything is perfect, but want to do the pro-active thing to save this hub that seems to be prone to fail. Could someone explain to a noob what and how exactly to do to the Novatec hubs so they last?

novatec didn't have instructions, but I hope these Salsa hub instructions are similar. I read the Park book and the zinn MTB maintenance book. But I never actually disassembled a cartridge hub (so please bare with me). Google gave me some videos showing failed hubs, but not actual solutions (besides replacement)

1. I read here people put loktite on... where exactly?
2. What do I need to do to the freehub ratchet? It seems to be louder than my other bikes. 
3. do I need to do anything to the font hub? 
4. did they by any chance improve the design? Mine is a 2018 and with all the hub problems in previous years I would hope they do something.

Thanks in advance and I apologize if this is already answered or sounds stupid. I read through the entire thread before buying this bike but all I know for sure is I need to do something.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

HerrKaLeun said:


> Could someone explain to a noob what and how exactly to do to the Novatec hubs so they last?


Don't let anyone over 160lbs ride it up a steep hill.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

See that thingy circled in red? Don't let it come loose, and don't over-tighten it.








-F


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

Fleas said:


> See that thingy circled in red? Don't let it come loose, and don't over-tighten it.
> View attachment 1157813
> 
> 
> -F


thanks for the hint. I took the endcaps off and saw how it ticks. Need two 17 mm wrenches.































That pawl thing has a dimple (circled red). I assume it has some function? Interesting there is some sleeve/bushing that is under the pawl mechanism (I pulled it out for the picture, but it normally is under the pawl)

I put threadlocker on the endcap thread and tightened it. Tight so it felt tight, but not using some leverage. Not sure there would be a way to torque it. But with the wheel in the bike and the TA tight, I really don't see this coming loose. 







Anything else I should do? I don't see how I would check tightness frequently without taking out the wheel. Would moving the wheel laterally tell me if it is loose (like you check for cup/cone hubs)?


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## th1npower (Dec 6, 2010)

HerrKaLeun said:


> Anything else I should do? I don't see how I would check tightness frequently without taking out the wheel. Would moving the wheel laterally tell me if it is loose (like you check for cup/cone hubs)?


..Make sure the cassette has no play in it.. wiggle it, not the wheel. If there is any play then tighten the hub more. That's where the damage is caused (freehub & hub).. by the time there is play at the wheel level the hub would already be fvct...

Happy riding.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

"That pawl thing has a dimple (circled red). I assume it has some function? Interesting there is some sleeve/bushing that is under the pawl mechanism (I pulled it out for the picture, but it normally is under the pawl)"

Yes, that dimple does serve a function and it relates to the spring. That little "ring" that holds the pawls in place is the retaining spring and it serves 2 purposes. 1) it holds the pawls in place and 2) it provides pressure keep the tips of the pawls up and out so they catch on to the ratchet ring. Now back to the dimple, you notice the retaining spring doesn't make a complete circle when installed. That's because the gap is taken up by the dimple. This helps you properly align the ring on to the freehub.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

tonyride1 said:


> Yes, that dimple does serve a function and it relates to the spring. That little "ring" that holds the pawls in place is the retaining spring and it serves 2 purposes. 1) it holds the pawls in place and 2) it provides pressure keep the tips of the pawls up and out so they catch on to the ratchet ring. Now back to the dimple, you notice the retaining spring doesn't make a complete circle when installed. That's because the gap is taken up by the dimple. This helps you properly align the ring on to the freehub.


Thanks for explaining, that makes it clearer and I see how they can fail.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

*Night Train "creaky bottom bracket"*

Greetings gentle readers,

I've owned a Night Train for 15 months now and have been riding it 3 times per week on a 22 mile loop on logging roads with a total of 2800' of climbing. So that's about 180 wonderful rides ... and with no failures!

A couple of months ago I slapped on some SnowShoe 5" tires (it's a tight fit), and that's made it even more fun. As someone here noted, heck, if you're going to ride a fat bike, get the fattest tires you can 

Anyway, over the past few rides I've been driven batty by what genuinely seemed to be a creaky bottom bracket. But as most of you probably know, often the BB is not the culprit, even though you'd swear it was.

So today I went through a sequential process of elimination by removing, cleaning, and lubing: BB, cranks, chain rings, pedals, saddle, seat post, through axles ... and still ... annoying creaking.

Guess what the source was.

*Where the spoke pairs criss-cross.*

By putting some tenacious oil on my fingers and rubbing the intersection while flexing the spoke pairs with the other hand, I eliminated the creak.

Thank. God. I don't know about you guys, but doing a lot of climbing with a creaky bike really takes the fun out of it.

Hope someone finds this helpful.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

I have a two year old Sturgis Bullet that I only really use at Winter. I'm toying with the idea of taking the Bluto off and putting on carbon forks FREE SHIP 48 STATES* Fat Bike FULL CARBON FORKS Tapered Carbon Steerer, Thru-Axle. Has anyone done this with this fork? How did the ride turn out. For suspension I'll have 45Nrth 4.6" Flowbeist/Dunderbiest tires. My one concern is that some times the snow can get hard and rough and then having the suspension is nice. However it may also be a bunch of dead weight I just don't need....

Thoughts?


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

TheNormsk said:


> I have a two year old Sturgis Bullet that I only really use at Winter. I'm toying with the idea of taking the Bluto off and putting on carbon forks FREE SHIP 48 STATES* Fat Bike FULL CARBON FORKS Tapered Carbon Steerer, Thru-Axle. Has anyone done this with this fork? How did the ride turn out. For suspension I'll have 45Nrth 4.6" Flowbeist/Dunderbiest tires. My one concern is that some times the snow can get hard and rough and then having the suspension is nice. However it may also be a bunch of dead weight I just don't need....
> 
> Thoughts?


I'm curious about your motives. Is the Bluto too much maintenance, or do you want to sell it? 
Yes a CF fork would save weight. But I noticed when riding the weight is not significant compared to rolling resistance.

I have the Sturgis NX with steel fork and was contemplating if I should get the Pluto. After i had my bike, i thought getting a CF fork next year may be nice. but kind of decided to just keep the steel fork since the weight is not that important. you may save 2-3 pounds, but the way i see it I could lose 2-3 pounds easily for free. i also have 2 liters water, lock, spare chain, spare tube (have tubeless), pump etc. with me. So I'm kind of wasting weight already and spending money on a CF fork seems not worth it.

When going over roots etc. I sometimes think I should have a suspended fork, but ultimately I don't need one. But if I already had one, like you, I'd just keep it.

I know this doesn't answer your question..... but you wanted our thoughts


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

TheNormsk said:


> I have a two year old Sturgis Bullet that I only really use at Winter. I'm toying with the idea of taking the Bluto off and putting on carbon forks FREE SHIP 48 STATES* Fat Bike FULL CARBON FORKS Tapered Carbon Steerer, Thru-Axle. Has anyone done this with this fork? How did the ride turn out. For suspension I'll have 45Nrth 4.6" Flowbeist/Dunderbiest tires. My one concern is that some times the snow can get hard and rough and then having the suspension is nice. However it may also be a bunch of dead weight I just don't need....
> 
> Thoughts?





HerrKaLeun said:


> I'm curious about your motives. Is the Bluto too much maintenance, or do you want to sell it?
> Yes a CF fork would save weight. But I noticed when riding the weight is not significant compared to rolling resistance.
> 
> I have the Sturgis NX with steel fork and was contemplating if I should get the Pluto. After i had my bike, i thought getting a CF fork next year may be nice. but kind of decided to just keep the steel fork since the weight is not that important. you may save 2-3 pounds, but the way i see it I could lose 2-3 pounds easily for free. i also have 2 liters water, lock, spare chain, spare tube (have tubeless), pump etc. with me. So I'm kind of wasting weight already and spending money on a CF fork seems not worth it.
> ...


I grew tired of the 120mm Bluto for my trails and switched to the Carver Popeye rigid carbon fork at 490mm. I thought the 480mm fork from BD would be too short. Plus, I don't have confidence in a carbon steerer. The front does become quite light compared to the Bluto. And since I ride rigid all the time anyway, I don't see a downside for Winter riding. The Bluto with a 4" tire does make easy work of roots, rocks, stairs, and 4" curbs - I was absolutely giddy the first time I railed through some giant roots without even slowing down. I felt like I was cheating. 

-F


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Cycloid said:


> Greetings gentle readers,
> 
> I've owned a Night Train for 15 months now and have been riding it 3 times per week on a 22 mile loop on logging roads with a total of 2800' of climbing. So that's about 180 wonderful rides ... and with no failures!
> 
> ...


Filing this under "You learn something new everyday"


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

TheNormsk said:


> I have a two year old Sturgis Bullet that I only really use at Winter. I'm toying with the idea of taking the Bluto off and putting on carbon forks FREE SHIP 48 STATES* Fat Bike FULL CARBON FORKS Tapered Carbon Steerer, Thru-Axle. Has anyone done this with this fork? How did the ride turn out. For suspension I'll have 45Nrth 4.6" Flowbeist/Dunderbiest tires. My one concern is that some times the snow can get hard and rough and then having the suspension is nice. However it may also be a bunch of dead weight I just don't need....
> 
> Thoughts?


It's going to fell like a completely different bike! Losing that much weight is going to be fun.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

HerrKaLeun said:


> I'm curious about your motives.


The Bluto is heavy and I only really ride this bike in the winter or with my kids on paved/gravel bike paths. While there are definitely some advantages to suspension in the snow, I am just not sure they outweigh the weight. Especially when I am biking on snow the can get four feet thick. If you fall off the packed trail into the deep stuff, losing some weight off the bike would make getting out of feet of snow somewhat easier.

I may not switch, just curious on the pros and cons at the moment.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

if you ride in the winter, snow covered trails, that are trampled and packed down by foot traffic, keep the bluto.. if you ride in outside of Winter, on root or rocks, keep the bluto, if you are over 40 and your joints creak now and again.. keep the bluto.

if you are going to race your fatty.... maybe lose the bluto


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I have two fatbikes. One, the NTB, has the bluto and is fantastic off road. 

When commuting, I use an older FB4 with the solid fork and devist8r tires, and it is much faster.

Instead of losing the bluto, buy another bike for racing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

last year I went 1x10.... using a sunrace 11x40 cassette and a 30 ellpitical ring...... I wanted to go 11x42, but either the sram mid cage derailer or the unique derailer hanger, or what not, we could not get good shifting... on the bike stand ok,, but not in the real world.

so question is for those out there who have done it... anyone do a 11 speed change over... like a 11x46 or something, what did you use, any misgivings? this Winter thinking of jumping back to the 2x10... to have that snail pace crawling feature we need sometimes over here in Western NY.


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

twright205 said:


> last year I went 1x10.... using a sunrace 11x40 cassette and a 30 ellpitical ring...... I wanted to go 11x42, but either the sram mid cage derailer or the unique derailer hanger, or what not, we could not get good shifting... on the bike stand ok,, but not in the real world.
> 
> so question is for those out there who have done it... anyone do a 11 speed change over... like a 11x46 or something, what did you use, any misgivings? this Winter thinking of jumping back to the 2x10... to have that snail pace crawling feature we need sometimes over here in Western NY.


Check out my post earlier in this thread for full details and a picture...
Custom Sturgis Bullet 
04-11-2017, 10:43 PM

I'll copy and paste the main parts you're looking for. 
Shimano XT 1x11. 11-46 cassette
Shimano XT Deore M8000 GS Rear derailleur (GS = medium cage)
26 tooth chainring...I spin fast and never top out anyway. 
I took the advice of another poster on this board and swapped to the following crank:
Race Face Cinch. I got the 170 spacing version instead of 190. I went with 170 length. Here is the trick to make it work: You'll need to do a 1x Raceface direct mount chainring and flip it around so that the teeth are out closer to your pedal, rather than toward the frame. This creates a perfect chainline, and allows the chain to clear larger tires with a narrower Q-factor.

I leave it this way year round and it leaves me room to run Surly Bud / Lou 4.8 on a 90mm inner diameter rim without the insane Q-factor of the Samox crank.

*EDIT* I wanted to mention that the 11-46 Shimano cassette works just fine for my bikes. It's the same as the 11-42 but replaces the 42 with 46 (the rest of the teeth are the same). This does not create too big of a jump like most people would be afraid of. When the gears go lower, it takes more teeth to give the same % gear jump and I never find myself complaining there is nothing in between.


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## Mr Horse (Jul 14, 2011)

twright205 said:


> last year I went 1x10.... using a sunrace 11x40 cassette and a 30 ellpitical ring...... I wanted to go 11x42, but either the sram mid cage derailer or the unique derailer hanger, or what not, we could not get good shifting... on the bike stand ok,, but not in the real world.
> 
> so question is for those out there who have done it... anyone do a 11 speed change over... like a 11x46 or something, what did you use, any misgivings? this Winter thinking of jumping back to the 2x10... to have that snail pace crawling feature we need sometimes over here in Western NY.


I've successfully put 11-42t and 11-46t cassettes on bikes. The important thing is to find a derailleur that can take up the proper amount of chain for that wide range of gears.

It can be a little hard to find the specifications on the assorted derailleurs that are available. CRC has them listed as does BC.com I believe. The other retailers.....not so much.

I went with 11s Shimano SLX M7000s on all of my builds 26 x 11-42, 30 x 11-46 (& even a 10 speed with a 11-42t cassette) I've had nothing but good experiences with this product and they are affordable. You can get a goat link from Wolf Tooth which will allow you to upfit some of the other Shimano products as well.

I'm not a big fan of SRAM derailleurs, so can't really speak in regards to their lineup (tho I do prefer to have SRAM shifters and chains on my bikes)


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Update on the Sturgis NX - still going strong, still a head-shaking ridiculously good deal, still loving it. But the stock fork just HURTS. It's beautifully made but I could ride over a dime and tell you what year it was minted, even at 10 psi (which works well for the conditions here in the summer). Plus it is 3.8 lbs! Strongly considering the carbon fork BD has, seems a solid buy at 200 bones. Should prove a worthwhile upgrade.


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## toadmeister (Sep 24, 2017)

BadgerOne said:


> Update on the Sturgis NX - still going strong, still a head-shaking ridiculously good deal, still loving it. But the stock fork just HURTS. It's beautifully made but I could ride over a dime and tell you what year it was minted, even at 10 psi (which works well for the conditions here in the summer). Plus it is 3.8 lbs! Strongly considering the carbon fork BD has, seems a solid buy at 200 bones. Should prove a worthwhile upgrade.


I just ordered the Sturgis NX, should arrive Thursday! Interesting about the front forks.

Looking for frame bags, racks and accessories for the Sturgis NX. I got an XL frame.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Yeah, no provisions for anything on the carbon forks which stinks, but I probably wouldn't use them anyway. As far as a rear rack, the Topeak Uni Super Tourist Fat is the one to beat, but as I mentioned in another thread, the fat tax is alive and well with that one. It sells for more than twice what any other Topeak racks fetch. Much as I want one, they can keep it until they come to their senses on the price.


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## Mark C (Feb 10, 2004)

I have a circa 2014 Sturgis and I need to replace the original Samox crankset. I basically just use this bike for flat land beach riding and don't have any use for an inner chain ring. 

Can anyone confirm if the following setup will work:
Race Face Ride Crank Arms (for 170mm rear)
Single 36 Tooth Race Face NW Chainring installed in the flipped orientation


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Mark C said:


> I have a circa 2014 Sturgis and I need to replace the original Samox crankset. I basically just use this bike for flat land beach riding and don't have any use for an inner chain ring.
> 
> Can anyone confirm if the following setup will work:
> Race Face Ride Crank Arms (for 170mm rear)
> Single 36 Tooth Race Face NW Chainring installed in the flipped orientation


You have a 197mm rear, if that makes a difference.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mark C (Feb 10, 2004)

Thanks for info Whiskey. Everything I've been reading in this monstrous thread leads me to believe that folks are using 170 cranks when they replace their Sturgis cranks. I'm still a little foggy whether the 170 versus 190 cranks have different q factors, spindle length, or something else? 

The spindle length and spacers on the existing setup seems to increase the q factor unnecessarily wide. I would love to bring the width in slightly (removing the spacers) with the new crank.


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

The spindle length is 170mm or 190mm 
I went with the Aeffect cinch 170 and an XTR BB without the dumb sleeve, flipped the chainring.

170 has lower Q


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

twright205 said:


> so question is for those out there who have done it... anyone do a 11 speed change over... like a 11x46 or something, what did you use, any misgivings? this Winter thinking of jumping back to the 2x10... to have that snail pace crawling feature we need sometimes over here in Western NY.


I run a 11-46 Sunrace with a banged up NX derailleur. I think it works better than the stock SRAM casette. All the stuff from my Sturgis is on my RSD Mayor now, but I don't know if that matters or not.


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## Mtbstigo (Oct 25, 2016)

Hey I picked up a 2018 Sturgis bullet and love it so far. I have a few questions.
1. Do the qtube superlight 26x2.4-2 7 tubes fit a 4.8 maxxis minion tire. Or is this pushing it? Trying to lose some rotating weight. Also is this even worth it? I'm assuming it's less than 2 pounds difference if that. Maybe tubeless is the way to go?
2. What's the reach of this frame. I ride a medium 17.5 inch. Mine came with a 80mm stem and seems spot on.
3. What sag are you guys running on the bluto. I'm about 175 with gear and have it set up at 20 sag but seems a bit stiff. Maybe it's tire pressure which I'm still playing with.

Thanks!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Mtbstigo said:


> Hey I picked up a 2018 Sturgis bullet and love it so far. I have a few questions.
> 1. Do the qtube superlight 26x2.4-2 7 tubes fit a 4.8 maxxis minion tire. Or is this pushing it? Trying to lose some rotating weight. Also is this even worth it? I'm assuming it's less than 2 pounds difference if that. Maybe tubeless is the way to go?
> 2. What's the reach of this frame. I ride a medium 17.5 inch. Mine came with a 80mm stem and seems spot on.
> 3. What sag are you guys running on the bluto. I'm about 175 with gear and have it set up at 20 sag but seems a bit stiff. Maybe it's tire pressure which I'm still playing with.
> ...


I tried superlight tubes for awhile, but they got holes easily, and, since they are so stretched inside the tire, you cannot patch them. Go tubeless.
Reach? dunno.
When I had a Bluto, set correctly, I ran 20-25% sag, 3 bottomless tokens, 3 clicks on the compression knob, and slightly fast on the damping. I weigh 185#. I have since effectively shortened the travel by running 5 tokens and 10-15% sag, and 2 clicks on compression. It is super responsive.

-F


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## no sweat (Aug 21, 2014)

Mtbstigo said:


> Hey I picked up a 2018 Sturgis bullet and love it so far. I have a few questions.
> 1. Do the qtube superlight 26x2.4-2 7 tubes fit a 4.8 maxxis minion tire. Or is this pushing it? Trying to lose some rotating weight. Also is this even worth it? I'm assuming it's less than 2 pounds difference if that. Maybe tubeless is the way to go?
> 2. What's the reach of this frame. I ride a medium 17.5 inch. Mine came with a 80mm stem and seems spot on.
> 3. What sag are you guys running on the bluto. I'm about 175 with gear and have it set up at 20 sag but seems a bit stiff. Maybe it's tire pressure which I'm still playing with.
> ...


Go tubeless. I like 6psi front 7 rear for general trail duty. I'm really happy with the 4.8 Minions on trails. They really spoil you on grip. I'm 180#.

I run about 25% sag. My Bluto was delightfully stiction free when new, but seems a little bit sticky of late. Maybe it's time for service.


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## Spudnick (Oct 18, 2016)

Question for the shorter guys:

Is there anyone riding a small frame around 5'3"? I've been reading the thread and it seems that these run larger size wise. I'm wondering if I'm better off getting a Boris instead. I sold my Mongoose Argus Comp earlier this year and want to get back into another fat bike.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

I'm planning on converting my 2015 Sturgis Bullet to 1x11 using the Sun 11x46 cassette out back and a 28 up front. The front is still the original Race Face 2x crank with 22/36 on it.

For those of you that have converted to 1x can the 2x Race Face be converted for 1x operation of do I need a new crank. If the later, any recommendations for what works well with a 1x11 setup that not too heavy but doesn't break the bank?

Thanks!


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## Mr Horse (Jul 14, 2011)

TheNormsk said:


> I'm planning on converting my 2015 Sturgis Bullet to 1x11 using the Sun 11x46 cassette out back and a 28 up front. The front is still the original Race Face 2x crank with 22/36 on it.
> 
> For those of you that have converted to 1x can the 2x Race Face be converted for 1x operation of do I need a new crank. If the later, any recommendations for what works well with a 1x11 setup that not too heavy but doesn't break the bank?
> 
> Thanks!


You'll just be replacing the 104 BCD ring (the bigger, outer ring) and removing the 64 BCD ring (smaller , inner one) to make your bike 1X. So the good news is, your crank should work just fine.

That's all there is to it.

....and of course you'll need a narrow wide replacement ring to prevent chain drop. Also, make sure you get a derailleur that can handle up to 46t.

USAMade offers a nice low cost option narrow wide...or you can use their shark tooth version which has worked awesomely for me.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Mr Horse said:


> You'll just be replacing the 104 BCD ring (the bigger, outer ring) and removing the 64 BCD ring (smaller , inner one) to make your bike 1X. So the good news is, your crank should work just fine.


That's good to know, though looking into rings, it appears that the 104 BCD only goes down to a 30T. I really want a 28T to keep my current low range. For that, I'm guessing that I will need a new crank, or get the 11-50 Sunrace (which would add weight and gear jumps).


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## MrWrestlingII (Nov 15, 2017)

I’m looking into purchasing a Sturgis Bullet and see there are new 2015 models available for $300 less than the 2018 model. It looks like the 2018 model has upgraded rims/tires and is 1x11. For those in the know, what is your opinion on spending the extra $$$ for the newer model? 

Also, what size would you recommend for 6’ with a 32” inseam? This bike will be used for all seasons in MN, 95% river bottoms trail riding.

And… any other bikes you would buy over the Sturgis Bullet in the same price range?

Thanks for any replies.


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## hectorlandaeta (Oct 17, 2013)

TheNormsk said:


> That's good to know, though looking into rings, it appears that the 104 BCD only goes down to a 30T. I really want a 28T to keep my current low range. For that, I'm guessing that I will need a new crank, or get the 11-50 Sunrace (which would add weight and gear jumps).


I've got from a Russian outfit called Neutrino Components a 39T elliptical narrow wide for 104 BCD. I know for a fact they make a 28T in elliptical and plain vanilla narrow wide. They're inexpensive and good quality. Takes about 5 weeks to ship from Russia, though. You can find them in eBay.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk


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## hectorlandaeta (Oct 17, 2013)

MrWrestlingII said:


> I'm looking into purchasing a Sturgis Bullet and see there are new 2015 models available for $300 less than the 2018 model. It looks like the 2018 model has upgraded rims/tires and is 1x11. For those in the know, what is your opinion on spending the extra $$$ for the newer model?
> 
> Also, what size would you recommend for 6' with a 32" inseam? This bike will be used for all seasons in MN, 95% river bottoms trail riding.
> 
> ...


Online fat bike sellers got a big hurdle to jump when the Germans from Canyon decided to invade America. Do check out their Dude 8.0.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

hectorlandaeta said:


> I've got from a Russian outfit called Neutrino Components a 39T elliptical narrow wide for 104 BCD. I know for a fact they make a 28T in elliptical and plain vanilla narrow wide. They're inexpensive and good quality. Takes about 5 weeks to ship from Russia, though. You can find them in eBay.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk


No 28T for a 104 BCD. I'm adding a Raceface Turbine Cinch crank to my Santa list


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## Mr Horse (Jul 14, 2011)

TheNormsk said:


> That's good to know, though looking into rings, it appears that the 104 BCD only goes down to a 30T. I really want a 28T to keep my current low range. For that, I'm guessing that I will need a new crank, or get the 11-50 Sunrace (which would add weight and gear jumps).


Correct, you'll have to get a direct mount crank in order to put on a sub 30t ring on up front.

However, there is one work-around. USAMade has a 26t 104 BCD ring with an integrated bash guard. I'm not a shill, though I'm starting to sound like one.....I just have them on two of my bikes on which I'm running 11-42 cassettes.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

TheNormsk said:


> That's good to know, though looking into rings, it appears that the 104 BCD only goes down to a 30T. I really want a 28T to keep my current low range. For that, I'm guessing that I will need a new crank, or get the 11-50 Sunrace (which would add weight and gear jumps).


There is a solution to your problem:

https://northshorebillet.com/collec...variable-tooth-chainrings?variant=11447443905

North Shore billet makes a 64bcd offset ring in 28T. I have ran mine for almost a year and its awesome. I'm a big guy so I need the extra low range and the 30T wasn't enough.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

KTMNealio said:


> There is a solution to your problem:
> 
> https://northshorebillet.com/collec...variable-tooth-chainrings?variant=11447443905
> 
> North Shore billet makes a 64bcd offset ring in 28T. I have ran mine for almost a year and its awesome. I'm a big guy so I need the extra low range and the 30T wasn't enough.


Awesome! Thanks.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

MrWrestlingII said:


> I'm looking into purchasing a Sturgis Bullet and see there are new 2015 models available for $300 less than the 2018 model. It looks like the 2018 model has upgraded rims/tires and is 1x11. For those in the know, what is your opinion on spending the extra $$$ for the newer model?
> 
> Also, what size would you recommend for 6' with a 32" inseam? This bike will be used for all seasons in MN, 95% river bottoms trail riding.
> 
> ...


I have been lusting after the better crank-set and rims ever since they were spec'ed into the bike. Mine was too early to get the better parts.

It would cost way more than $300 to upgrade to the RF crankset and mulefut rims if you went the '15 model route.


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## hectorlandaeta (Oct 17, 2013)

TheNormsk said:


> No 28T for a 104 BCD. I'm adding a Raceface Turbine Cinch crank to my Santa list


I stand corrected. I meant to write they make a nice 28T at 64 BCD, the other size he still has on his crankset. I have both 28T and 38T in 11% oval but they make them straight too.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

MrWrestlingII said:


> I'm looking into purchasing a Sturgis Bullet and see there are new 2015 models available for $300 less than the 2018 model. It looks like the 2018 model has upgraded rims/tires and is 1x11. For those in the know, what is your opinion on spending the extra $$$ for the newer model?
> 
> Also, what size would you recommend for 6' with a 32" inseam? This bike will be used for all seasons in MN, 95% river bottoms trail riding.
> 
> ...


You can remove the inner ring and change the outer one to something like Race Face Narrow Wide chainring. As far as size its really up to you and based on your legs and riding but smallest one you can fit in 104 BCD is 30T.


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## dariusf (Oct 8, 2012)

WhiskeyJr said:


> I have been lusting after the better crank-set and rims ever since they were spec'ed into the bike. Mine was too early to get the better parts.
> 
> It would cost way more than $300 to upgrade to the RF crankset and mulefut rims if you went the '15 model route.


I upgraded my Salsa Bucksaw to Race Face Aeffect including the bottom bracket from SRAM X5 and besides loosing about 309 grams it is smoother. I do have an extra brand new SRAM X5 Crank and BB which I was going to upgrade my 2015 Sturgis Bullet to but now decided to see the bike and will need to sell the crank as well


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## Mickey1970 (Nov 16, 2017)

WhiskeyJr said:


> I have been lusting after the better crank-set and rims ever since they were spec'ed into the bike. Mine was too early to get the better parts.
> 
> It would cost way more than $300 to upgrade to the RF crankset and mulefut rims if you went the '15 model route.


I just pulled the trigger on the Sturgis NX 17.5" on Wednesday and just as Whiskey says the mulefut rims made the 2018 worth the extra money for me. The tubeless option is a pretty significant upgrade.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

MrWrestlingII said:


> I'm looking into purchasing a Sturgis Bullet and see there are new 2015 models available for $300 less than the 2018 model. It looks like the 2018 model has upgraded rims/tires and is 1x11. For those in the know, what is your opinion on spending the extra $$$ for the newer model?
> 
> Also, what size would you recommend for 6' with a 32" inseam? This bike will be used for all seasons in MN, 95% river bottoms trail riding.
> 
> ...


At 6' tall, you are right on a large. I'm 6'3" and I just fit on it. I would not want the XL.
1x11 doesn't impress me. I've never had an issue with any front derailleur ever.

-F


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## Mickey1970 (Nov 16, 2017)

*Sturgis NX Stack and Reach*



Mtbstigo said:


> 2. What's the reach of this frame. I ride a medium 17.5 inch. Mine came with a 80mm stem and seems spot on.


I did a bit of size comparison with my Jamis XAM I mountain bike that I have been comfortably riding for many years. (Nearly Identical to the Medium Sturgis)

I calculated the 17.5" Sturgis NX to have the following ...
Stack = 563.4mm
Reach = 433mm

You can see that I am off a little because the actual top tube is 1.3mm long in my drawing. That is due to the lack of details around the standard fork length and offset. (and my impatience fixing such a small error.)

The Reach and Stack will be effected by the Bluto which I believe is longer and more slack.

There is also a website that actually gave me the idea to create the drawing. Stack and reach calculator I had trouble gaining confidence in the website due to the few dimensions missing from the Motobecane geometry data. This is what gave me the idea for my own sketch.


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## Mtbstigo (Oct 25, 2016)

Mickey1970 said:


> I did a bit of size comparison with my Jamis XAM I mountain bike that I have been comfortably riding for many years. (Nearly Identical to the Medium Sturgis)
> 
> I calculated the 17.5" Sturgis NX to have the following ...
> Stack = 563.4mm
> ...


Thanks! And interesting I figured reach was smaller since my bike came with a 80mm stem but also at its highest point on the steerer tube and I have a bluto. So figure it's around 410 +80 =490mm which sounds about right for a medium.


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## FrontRangeSteve (Nov 23, 2017)

Hi. I've not ridden a rigid mountain bike since I first started 25 years ago...and I quickly upgraded to full suspension before I began riding technical stuff. Buying the night train bullet for snow pack, and jeep roads in all seasons to make that part of Colorado peakbagging more fun. Also plan to use in Fruita/Moab with wife who enjoys the tamer trails. Have been wavering between the Night Train ti super light build w/ carbon fork vs the ti 2x drive train build with Bluto. Appreciate any views.


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## thisisbenji (Nov 13, 2010)

Finally ditched the Vee Rubber Snowshoes that came with my bike. I didn't loose much weight (if any) as my bike still comes in at 30.25 lbs ready to ride. However, my god does it handle better now. I can actually rail corners on this thing without fighting it to stay on line. I was running my snowshoes at 7f/8r PSI on hardpack and was getting a bit of self-steer. I ran these tires at the same PSI and there wasn't a single trace of self-steer. I think I'm gonna run 6f/7r next time out.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

> Finally ditched the Vee Rubber Snowshoes that came with my bike....


Might be imgur, but I can't see your photo.

What tires did you pick up?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

I can't see the image either. I just replaced the Snowshoes with Kenda Jauggernauts


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## thisisbenji (Nov 13, 2010)

Whoops, idk what's up with imgur. Sometimes it works really well, sometimes it won't show the photo despite the link being just fine.

Anyways I went with the Jumbo Jim Snakeskin 4.0s. Seemed like it would be a good all around tire for my trails.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Has anyone swapped out the POS Novatec D202-SB 197/12 thru axle hub with a DT Swiss big ride 350 and been able to reuse the same spokes (Mulefut rim)? One spoke calc has the current spokes as laced Novatec/Mulefut if reused on the DT, the NDS spokes are approx 1.8mm short, and the drive side at 1mm long, but there's always play - and these measurement are pretty close.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Can someone with a large (19") Sturgis Bullet (with 120mm Bluto at no sag) get me an accurate wheelbase measurement, please?
Spec says 1144mm (45"). I'm still trying to sort out some steering issues.

Thanks,
-F


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

watermonkey said:


> Has anyone swapped out the POS Novatec D202-SB 197/12 thru axle hub with a DT Swiss big ride 350 and been able to reuse the same spokes (Mulefut rim)? One spoke calc has the current spokes as laced Novatec/Mulefut if reused on the DT, the NDS spokes are approx 1.8mm short, and the drive side at 1mm long, but there's always play - and these measurement are pretty close.


I'm pretty sure the bike shop had to replace the short ones when I swapped.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

KTMNealio said:


> I'm pretty sure the bike shop had to replace the short ones when I swapped.


Thank you sir. I'm going to give it a go lacing it up at home with the expectations that it won't work. It'll be good practice anyway - been a while since I've laced anything up. When/if it goes south, I'll have the lbs build it up correctly. Updates as I have them.


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

looking to put a Manitou Mastodon w/ 1 1/8 steerer dia. on my Sturgis, just wondering if anyone knows the size of the race that needs to be pressed on to the steerer tube of the new fork to accept the lower headset bearing?


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Found an annoying 'feature' of the Sturgis/Night Train AL frame. I bought a Topeak Uni Super Tourist Fat rack for my Sturgis. Aside from the rack mount threads being painted and making it a pain to get screws started....

The non-drive side lower rack mount is about 10mm inboard of center compared to the drive side. Dumb move from Kinesis. On a rack like the Topeak - or most other racks for that matter - where there is no means of lateral adjustment, your rack winds up off center over the rear tire and cannot be manipulated to correct it. Still works but is annoying if you are anal-retentive like me. I'll be sourcing a 10mm/.375 spacer and longer screws to get this thing centered on the bike. Trying to flip adjuster legs and what have you doesn't work.

Just an FYI for those trying to rack these things....


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## OhioPT (Jul 14, 2012)

Fleas said:


> Can someone with a large (19") Sturgis Bullet (with 120mm Bluto at no sag) get me an accurate wheelbase measurement, please?
> Spec says 1144mm (45"). I'm still trying to sort out some steering issues.
> 
> Thanks,
> -F


I measured 1180mm. The best I can tell, the 1144mm figure is with a rigid fork that would measure around 470mm a-c. It was a year ago, but I recall measuring a HTA of 66.5 degrees with the 120 Bluto, using an angle finder that's been accurate across all my other bikes. Bikes Direct has some bad geometry charts.


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## mountainelf (Dec 14, 2017)

anyone get one of those LAVA RED NightTrain Bullets? Wondering if that is a matte color. Not clear from the pix, but it does look more matte than gloss. 

Been reading the entire thread and will get a bike soon. Still undecided on 1x11 vs 2x11, but it will be one of the Bluto models with GX drivetrain. Prefer red, but 2x11 would be better for my intended use and save me from getting a turbine chinch spider and chainrings. The front derailleur isn't really needed, but I want the range of the 2x.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

OhioPT said:


> I measured 1180mm. The best I can tell, the 1144mm figure is with a rigid fork that would measure around 470mm a-c. It was a year ago, but I recall measuring a HTA of 66.5 degrees with the 120 Bluto, using an angle finder that's been accurate across all my other bikes. Bikes Direct has some bad geometry charts.


Thank you! Maybe I am imagining all this, because that's pretty much what I got (46-and-not-quite-a-half"). This bike used to steer so much better, though. I can't figure out what's going on. The headset is free, the fork is good, no bent bars... arrrgh! Maybe it's some weird tire thing...

Do you check your head angle on the fork leg?

-F


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

mountainelf said:


> anyone get one of those LAVA RED NightTrain Bullets? Wondering if that is a matte color. Not clear from the pix, but it does look more matte than gloss.
> 
> Been reading the entire thread and will get a bike soon. Still undecided on 1x11 vs 2x11, but it will be one of the Bluto models with GX drivetrain. Prefer red, but 2x11 would be better for my intended use and save me from getting a turbine chinch spider and chainrings. The front derailleur isn't really needed, but I want the range of the 2x.


 I spend a lot of time in the small chainring slogging away. The chainlines aren't great on these to begin with, but it would only be amplified by going 1x if you spent most of your time in low, grinding gears. I love 1x on my full suspension ride, but I'm sticking with 2x on my fatty - it especially comes into play when the summer tires go on. I've come to enjoy the novelty of a front derailleur again now that I'm on the fatty more.


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## mountainelf (Dec 14, 2017)

watermonkey said:


> I spend a lot of time in the small chainring slogging away. The chainlines aren't great on these to begin with, but it would only be amplified by going 1x if you spent most of your time in low, grinding gears. I love 1x on my full suspension ride, but I'm sticking with 2x on my fatty - it especially comes into play when the summer tires go on. I've come to enjoy the novelty of a front derailleur again now that I'm on the fatty more.


yeah. the more I think about it, I want that derailleur. Manual ring change by hand is fine, but if the trail is a roller coaster, I know I won't be changing it every time I need to swap front rings. plus, the 2x11 costs the same as the 1x11, with shifter, derailleur, and extra chain ring.

It's just that every 19" NightTrain 2x with or without suspension right now is a black bike and I already have 3 black bikes...


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## basso4735 (Oct 7, 2007)

Entering the second season with my Sturgis. Such a fun bike. No issues besides that rear hub which was replaced with a DT Swiss.


__
http://instagr.am/p/BcfgSvyBiML/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I am contemplating switching my ‘15 NTB crankset to a raceface turbine setup. Are there any drawbacks (other than cost) to this solution?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

WhiskeyJr said:


> I am contemplating switching my '15 NTB crankset to a raceface turbine setup. Are there any drawbacks (other than cost) to this solution?


I have a "15 NTB w/samox cranks and a '16 NTB w/turbines. There's no doubt the Raceface's are better, but I can't tell a difference between the two when riding. I'm sure one's light/stiffer/stronger/better, but it just hasn't really come into play yet...for me.
I'd rather spend the money on wheels - especially if I was still rolling on the Weinmann rims.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I've found the Turnagain tubeless ready wheels are a great deal. I own 3 sets of the 100mm ones and absolutely love them, but they don't have them anymore. Still, for only $300 the 80mm ones are a great deal. I have well over 1K on my black set and they're still perfect.


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## mtbikewv (Dec 18, 2005)

A couple of rides in and I can say it is well worth $1500. The best part is the weight (36 lbs) so come spring my other bike will feel like a rocket ship. Perfect winter training machine!


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Dilligaff said:


> I've found the Turnagain tubeless ready wheels are a great deal. I own 3 sets of the 100mm ones and absolutely love them, but they don't have them anymore. Still, for only $300 the 80mm ones are a great deal. I have well over 1K on my black set and they're still perfect.


I have a set in 65 and 80mm. I won't be getting any more of these. The rim diameter is overly wide, making for a massively tight fit...if you can get them to mount, even when trying to mount with tubes - the bead seat diameter is just way too tight. Tires that fit no problem on my Mulefut's don't come anywhere close to seating on these, for me, and the tires I've used. Every time I mount a tire up on these, I'm concerned about damaging another bead or casing due to the relatively high pressures required to force the bead to seat, even when using copious amounts of lube. I don't think I could successfully put a tube in on a ride if my tubeless failed and had to perform a field repair.

Edited.


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

Hi everyone. Just sharing a photo of my 2015 Sturgis Bullet taken last Nov 12, 2017 here in Brunei Darussalam.









Thanks for viewing and cheers!


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

watermonkey said:


> Has anyone swapped out the POS Novatec D202-SB 197/12 thru axle hub with a DT Swiss big ride 350 and been able to reuse the same spokes (Mulefut rim)? One spoke calc has the current spokes as laced Novatec/Mulefut if reused on the DT, the NDS spokes are approx 1.8mm short, and the drive side at 1mm long, but there's always play - and these measurement are pretty close.


Laced the DT Swiss big ride into the Mulefut rim, re-using the stock spokes from the Novatec hub. Worked just fine for me. Just found the steepest hill I could find and mashed my way up it, standing, in granny gear...nary a pop, nor ping, nor skipping thing, no crunching, no munching, nor cracking or clacking, just standing and spinning, all the while grinning (whoah - Nyquil is kicking in).

Long story short, its nice.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> Laced the DT Swiss big ride into the Mulefut rim, re-using the stock spokes from the Novatec hub. Worked just fine for me. Just found the steepest hill I could find and mashed my way up it, standing, in granny gear...nary a pop, nor ping, nor skipping thing, no crunching, no munching, nor cracking or clacking, just standing and spinning, all the while grinning (whoah - Nyquil is kicking in).
> 
> Long story short, its nice.


If you use the DT Swiss, do you retain the Axle spacers, or is the hub the correct width for the dropouts without the craptastic plastic washers?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Plastic spacers? Really? Bikes direct does some stupid stuff. I'm assuming that some of the 197 thru axle Novatec hubs require rear spacers, looking at the current Mulefut wheelset for sale on BD. Neither of my Sturgis/NT Bullets have these spacers - just a D202SB 197 thru axle hub.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Damn. Snapped my derailleur hanger on the way to the office this morning. At least I only had to walk about a mile.

The one I snapped is the old original one that came with the '15 NTB. I had already purchased a spare hanger of the improved variety from BD, but hadn't yet put it on.


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## lalahg (Nov 9, 2015)

thisisbenji said:


> View attachment 1169331
> 
> 
> Finally ditched the Vee Rubber Snowshoes that came with my bike. I didn't loose much weight (if any) as my bike still comes in at 30.25 lbs ready to ride. However, my god does it handle better now. I can actually rail corners on this thing without fighting it to stay on line. I was running my snowshoes at 7f/8r PSI on hardpack and was getting a bit of self-steer. I ran these tires at the same PSI and there wasn't a single trace of self-steer. I think I'm gonna run 6f/7r next time out.


Which width of Jumbo Jim did you get and are you happy with it? I was thinking of getting 4.0 for a non-winter tire.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Damn. Snapped my derailleur hanger on the way to the office this morning. At least I only had to walk about a mile.
> 
> The one I snapped is the old original one that came with the '15 NTB. I had already purchased a spare hanger of the improved variety from BD, but hadn't yet put it on.


It's not improved... Haha. You need the machined one if you want a step up.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

watermonkey said:


> Laced the DT Swiss big ride into the Mulefut rim, re-using the stock spokes from the Novatec hub. Worked just fine for me. Just found the steepest hill I could find and mashed my way up it, standing, in granny gear...nary a pop, nor ping, nor skipping thing, no crunching, no munching, nor cracking or clacking, just standing and spinning, all the while grinning (whoah - Nyquil is kicking in).
> 
> Long story short, its nice.


I'm either lucky, smart, or just on the countdown. My Novatec hasn't sharted the bed yet. Granted, before I even rode it, I threadlocked the end caps on to make sure it didn't develop play, but I've not been easy on it. I regularly do standing knee-busters up nasty inclines and it hasn't made so much as a peep yet.

If it does go, it's not even a question of what I'll get to replace it. Love the DT350s on my other bikes.


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## vanquishphoto (May 21, 2013)

Regarding the '15 NightTrain, wondering peoples thoughts on the sizing... I ride all L bikes, but I am 5'10". I am looking at a used NightTrain Bullet and the owner is 5'10" (yes I got his height before him knowing mine haha). Is this going to be sized way to big for me? He has a 90mm stem on it (I assume for sizing) so thoughts?

I will obviously test ride first, but its 2hrs from me, so don't want to waste mine time or his if its too big.

Its been converted to a 1x as well.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

vanquishphoto said:


> Regarding the '15 NightTrain, wondering peoples thoughts on the sizing... I ride all L bikes, but I am 5'10". I am looking at a used NightTrain Bullet and the owner is 5'10" (yes I got his height before him knowing mine haha). Is this going to be sized way to big for me? He has a 90mm stem on it (I assume for sizing) so thoughts?
> 
> I will obviously test ride first, but its 2hrs from me, so don't want to waste mine time or his if its too big.
> 
> Its been converted to a 1x as well.


A friend of mine is 5'10" and he rides a L Motobecane fat bike so it should be OK for you.


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## Casual_Rider (May 14, 2017)

vanquishphoto said:


> Regarding the '15 NightTrain, wondering peoples thoughts on the sizing... I ride all L bikes, but I am 5'10". I am looking at a used NightTrain Bullet and the owner is 5'10" (yes I got his height before him knowing mine haha). Is this going to be sized way to big for me? He has a 90mm stem on it (I assume for sizing) so thoughts?


I'm also 5'10", with a 33 inch inseam. I have the 2017 Night Train Express, in size 17.5 (which I believe is medium). I think it's just right. I never rode a 19 (which I believe is large), but I have a hunch it would be too big for me. FWIW my non-fat bike (2016 Trek 7.3FX) is a large and fits just right as well.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I am also 5'10", I have a 2015 NTB medium.

My legs are short and I have a longer torso, so YMMV.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

vanquishphoto said:


> Regarding the '15 NightTrain, wondering peoples thoughts on the sizing... I ride all L bikes, but I am 5'10". I am looking at a used NightTrain Bullet and the owner is 5'10" (yes I got his height before him knowing mine haha). Is this going to be sized way to big for me? He has a 90mm stem on it (I assume for sizing) so thoughts?


I'm 5'9" and have monkey arms and long'ish torso. I had a small for standover in snow and it was alright but a little short in top tube for me. That's part of the reason I bought a new frame. I sized up to a medium in the 9:zero:7 Tundra. I think a large might be pretty long and standover could be an issue. Remember that when you look at geometry it's spec'd for a rigid fork. When you add a bluto like the Bullet it adds an inch to standover


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

*Full frame triangle bag*

I'm looking to get a bag that will take up the entire open triangular section of the frame for my Sturgis. Does anyone know if it exists for the Sturgis/NT and where to get it? I've seen them on other brands of HT fat bikes but with differences in tube lengths and angles at all 3 sides and corners I don't know if a generic full frame bag will sit nice and snug in that void. Or are the 3 sides of a "generic" full frame bag compliant enough to conform to the subtle differences in tube lengths and angles? If you have a full frame bag can you share the make and model of it? A picture would help a lot too. Thanks.


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## mountainelf (Dec 14, 2017)

saw this custom frame bag source while looking at their pogies yesterday:

Custom Frame Bag - Uraltour.com - bike expedition


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

lalahg said:


> Which width of Jumbo Jim did you get and are you happy with it? I was thinking of getting 4.0 for a non-winter tire.


Hey, I just bought 1 JJ 4.0 to try out. http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/treads-wider-than-carcass-1049613.html

I think it's a really great tire. I will probably use it on the front.

-F


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

I love my JJ 4.0's for summer tires - I did find them to have some self steer on 80mm rims, now run them on i65 rims, they're perfect - really fast rollers, no self steer, great all around dry tire. Early reports claimed terrible durability with lots of sidewall cuts...not here. Plenty tough, easy tubeless setup.


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

watermonkey said:


> I love my JJ 4.0's for summer tires - I did find them to have some self steer on 80mm rims, now run them on i65 rims, they're perfect - really fast rollers, no self steer, great all around dry tire. Early reports claimed terrible durability with lots of sidewall cuts...not here. Plenty tough, easy tubeless setup.


Have you used them in sand? New bike arriving has them and debating swapping in 4.8s immediately so I can sell them like-new.

Will use on snow and sand but have a 29er for primary use.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

As with snow, your sand may be way different than my sand. The only really deep sand I've ridden this setup in is in Moab, up top around the Slickrock trail and other random trails up in the Sand Flats rec area. They did fine, as the lugs aren't really deep, but I am NOT a sand aficionado by any stretch. I've never ridden on a beach. I find these to be absolutely terrible in snow, if that helps. The JJ 4.0's are my summer tires. Bud and Lou in the winter on 80's.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

tonyride1 said:


> I'm looking to get a bag that will take up the entire open triangular section of the frame for my Sturgis. Does anyone know if it exists for the Sturgis/NT and where to get it? I've seen them on other brands of HT fat bikes but with differences in tube lengths and angles at all 3 sides and corners I don't know if a generic full frame bag will sit nice and snug in that void. Or are the 3 sides of a "generic" full frame bag compliant enough to conform to the subtle differences in tube lengths and angles? If you have a full frame bag can you share the make and model of it? A picture would help a lot too. Thanks.


I have a Rogue Panda custom bag on both my bikes. Fits perfectly.








There isn't one that completely fill sout the triangle and many cost as much, some even more. I like the space-efficiency, but it also looks better to not leave the big gaps. I have the dual-compartment and the map pocket (shown).

The way they size it is you hold (or tape) a measuring tape to your bike and take good pictures and they scale it from there.


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## mountainelf (Dec 14, 2017)

*Got my bike today, loving it*

8 degrees F outside, sunny and just 2 " of snow, perfect to try out my just delivered Night Train Bullet 19" 2x11. 2 miles of frozen single track across the street from my house, so that's where I went.

Bike weighs 34.2 pounds out of the box, but feels quite nimble. It'll be turned tubeless soon, I'll need a longer stem and wider bar as well. I'll go carbon on that and the seat post, although weight is really not a big deal. A rear rack is already in the mail, as this will be my nasty weather commuter, for those days I don't want to ride my old Gary Fisher to work (26.8 miles round trip)

I did the Loctite on the rear axle spacer nut, checked everything for lube. Fork works just fine in 8F degree weather, too, although I wasn't out for more than an hour.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

JeepRage said:


> Have you used them in sand? New bike arriving has them and debating swapping in 4.8s immediately so I can sell them like-new.
> 
> Will use on snow and sand but have a 29er for primary use.


I've used 4.0 Snowshoes in sand (around Lake Michigan, Lake Erie, and Lake Superior). At 4-5psi they were OK. Wider might be better, but there is always a trade-off in getting _to_ the sand and fiddling with tire pressure. I am expecting the JJ 4.0s to do just fine. That is one reason I bought them. I got the JJ 4.0 Snakeskin.

-F


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## mountainelf (Dec 14, 2017)

*Ibera IB-RA5 rack on 2017 NTB*

I need a rack on my NTB, so I searched the thread and looked at all the mostly expensive options. Knowing that my dirt cheap Topeak on my other bike has lasted over 30,000 harsh commuter miles, I didn't feel like spending too much on a bomb proof rack for the few times I'll need it on the fat bike.

I went with the cheapest one that is wide enough for this bike and it looks and feels quite solid. The adjustable height piece may be the weak spot to monitor (the entire weight on two M4 screws). It is the Ibera IB-RA5 for less than $30.

It required a little trimming of the two adjustable rods that connect it in the front. Here's the result, ready for the first snow commute with my Ortlieb bags that snap right on at the top, while the bottom tab will need to be adjusted far to the side to latch behind one of the rear tube.

















Lots of room around the tire, and no spacers needed at all to install the main supports.









here underneath the skinny top tubes, the trimmed support rods - about 2 inches had to come off the end so they don't hit that main cross tube


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

I made some changes to my Sturgis. I pulled off the original drivetrain and put on 1x11 using:

Raceface Turbine Cinch cranks (170mm with 190mm spindle).
Real World Cycling BSA30 bottom bracket with Enduro bearings
absoluteBlack 28T oval cinch chainring.
Sunrise 11-46 cassette
SRAM GX 11 speed shifter and derailleur
Shimano SP-41 cable outer
I also swapped my 50mm stem I've been using and put the original 80mm back on.






I've got links at the end of the video for the two funnest downhills as well.

Overall, this has transformed the ride. I am really loving the simplicity of the 1x and the gear jumps on the Sunrise 11-46 are about perfect. Much better than a Shimano 11-46. The real revelation for me is the oval chain ring. Power delivery on climbs just appears so much smoother. This is critical for climbing in snow. I was able to climb much better than I usually can as there appeared to be no break-away "pulse" during peddling. Another factor may be that I reduced the crank length from 175mm to 170mm even though I am 5'11" with a 32" inseam. This is the second bike I have shorted cranks on and I just prefer it now.

Anyway, if you are still using the original 2x that these bikes came with I would highly recommend this set up. It's a game changer for me.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Anyone interested in my 29+ wheelset that I had on my Nighttrain?

Hugo 52 rims
Borealis Hubs
150/197 spacing
Surly Dirt Wizard 29+/Fat B Nimble tires are included.

PM me if interested


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## mountainelf (Dec 14, 2017)

*New DIY fender*

I'm still waiting for proper snow here this year (47F in Wisconsin on Jan 20? what's up with that?), but I'm getting my 2017 NTB dialed in more and more.

I swapped the 80mm stem for a 100mm (I am 6'2" and the bike is a 19"). The stem I used came off my Cervelo road bike and it turns out the fancy 3T stem from the $7000 road bike is 20 grams heavier than the stem that came with the Motobecane. So, if you're looking to shave weight, the stem won't really get you much.

I did get some Wolftooth single track pogies, since I don't want to swap the BarMitts I have on the daily ride back and forth. Those are really nice and will be mounted as soon as winter returns to these parts.

Up next are Snowshoe XL studded tire - again, waiting for snow to see a reason to mount them. I'll wait with the tubless conversion until spring when I will be going back to the Minions. I am guessing swapping tires on a tubless setup is more involved than with a tube.

A wider handlebar and lighter stem/seat are planned, too, but that will be about the extent of my mods at this stage. Still searching for the right cockpit position and that may decide what setback to choose for the stem.

This weekend I added my commuter DIY rear fender. I used corrugated plastic, zip ties, super glue (to connect two sheets of plastic), and a lot of high viz tape. The Ibera rack makes it real easy to mount the fender. To remove, cut the zip ties. Takes 5 minutes to re-attach.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

Did anyone install an xD driver body (for SRAM 10T cassettes) on these Novatec hubs? On BDOPcycling seems to have them. they list the D202SB-11 for the xD driver.

1. did you succesfully install it (and any problems?)
2. did you need any other parts besides the $44.99 driver?

With the potential to have to replace the hub at some point, one could say I just get a hub with xD body then. But I want to hope I don't need a new hub.

I don't have immediate plans , but plan to install a smaller chainring and want to keep the option open to get a cassette with a 10T cog in the future. (not sure if needed or not). Maybe once I need a new cassette.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

I honestly see no reason to run an XD driver. You can accomplish the same thing with a wide range cassette on an HG driver..
That's my $.02


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

Has anybody fit a power meter to a Sturgis Bullet? 
I've placed the Raceface Aeffect Cinch crankset on my bike. 
I used the 170 rear spaced crankset instead of the 190 to get a more narrow Q-factor. With the frame curve, it clears perfectly but is close. 

I have read that the Stages Hollowgram crank arms should fit onto the Cinch spindles...however I'm weary of the crank curve in terms of clearing the frame since I pulled in the Q-factor already. 

The only option I'm seeing is a Powerpod (I use one on my road bike) - but I don't know if it's worth the hassle of trying to figure out the CRR (rolling resistance numbers) and all that jazz since the fat tires vary so much. -Plus I don't lock my fork or begin my ride on smooth surface to calibrate.

**EDIT**
Apparently the Race Face Aeffect Fat isn't a true 'Cinch' crank and uses a 24mm spindle that nobody makes a power meter for. The only possibility I see is either switch to a SRAM or Quarq setup (not going to happen $$$).


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

tonyride1 said:


> I'm looking to get a bag that will take up the entire open triangular section of the frame for my Sturgis. Does anyone know if it exists for the Sturgis/NT and where to get it? I've seen them on other brands of HT fat bikes but with differences in tube lengths and angles at all 3 sides and corners I don't know if a generic full frame bag will sit nice and snug in that void. Or are the 3 sides of a "generic" full frame bag compliant enough to conform to the subtle differences in tube lengths and angles? If you have a full frame bag can you share the make and model of it? A picture would help a lot too. Thanks.


Moosetreks frame bag, size medium, does the trick on a 19" frame. Fifty bones on Amazon.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

BadgerOne said:


> Moosetreks frame bag, size medium, does the trick on a 19" frame. Fifty bones on Amazon.
> 
> View attachment 1183367


Thanks for the tip - but I didn't read your post well. I ordered a large, for my large Night Train frame....and it fits great. Looks custom. Completely fills the frame.


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## MrWrestlingII (Nov 15, 2017)

MrWrestlingII said:


> I'm looking into purchasing a Sturgis Bullet and see there are new 2015 models available for $300 less than the 2018 model. It looks like the 2018 model has upgraded rims/tires and is 1x11. For those in the know, what is your opinion on spending the extra $$$ for the newer model?
> 
> Also, what size would you recommend for 6' with a 32" inseam? This bike will be used for all seasons in MN, 95% river bottoms trail riding.
> 
> ...


Update: I chickened out on the BD purchase and picked up a 2018 Farley 5 from a local shop. Got my first ride in this morning on mostly crunchy ice and was surprised how well the bike performed.

I did check out the Canyon Dude 8.0 but checking their website daily for a couple months the bike was never available for purchase.


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## VDoubleUVR6 (May 12, 2014)

Just sharing my first fat bike purchase experience...after a few hours/days/weeks of comparing I decided on the Night Train Express because of the component list, Kinesis frame, etc. When comparing against other brands, I noticed that the Jamis Roughneck and the one from Growler use (what looks to me) the exact same frame for more money which in my mind made this model a no brainer when getting bang for the buck.

I've done the blue loctite on the rear hub threads and while it was apart I cleaned up some of the stringy thick grease on the freehub and added a very thin layer of super lube which I prefer.

Sadly...I've only had the chance to put on 2 miles around the block while chasing down my 4 year old on her balance bike. The experience of the fat bike is almost comical but fun and can't wait to actually use it on the snow...if it returns before the end of the season that is. My wife said it seems like the purchase of the fat bike scared off the snow in our area. She also says that about the lack of rain during the summer until I wash our cars...it rains a day or so later haha.

Anyways...below are a few pictures of the bike for future reference as others who have posted helped me with the decision.









Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Ooh, that's pretty. Nice FJ too, that's a cool green. Congrats on the new ride. Nothing beats that "first time on a fatty" feeling.


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## Paul Fithian (Dec 28, 2017)

BadgerOne said:


> Moosetreks frame bag, size medium, does the trick on a 19" frame. Fifty bones on Amazon.
> 
> View attachment 1183367


I have one of those Moostreks bags. Perfect size and excellent quality.


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## VDoubleUVR6 (May 12, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> Ooh, that's pretty. Nice FJ too, that's a cool green. Congrats on the new ride. Nothing beats that "first time on a fatty" feeling.


Thank you!! And yes the looks I was getting from passing cars was even better haha

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## VDoubleUVR6 (May 12, 2014)

Just wanted to share a picture of its first official ride today...snow was crunchy and there weren't many "groomed" lines on the trail. I found it more of a workout for my upper body trying to follow other bike lines and battling all the frozen foot steps. Either way it was fun and the grip from the tires reminded me of a 4x4 in low range just being able to pull itself up.









Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## gluestick (Aug 4, 2017)

Hello hoping this is a simple fix. I purchased a 2017 used Sturgis and I'm in the process of converting it from 2x to 1x. I had to grind off part of the front derailleur mount for chain clearance and purchased and installed the same Race Face crank (100mm spindle) that come stock on the current Nx1x. Tires are the Maxxis that is also stock on the current 1X model. My problem is I am getting a bit of chain rub on the sidewall when in the biggest 46 tooth gear (11 x 46) cassette. I have brought it to the shop as I am out of ideas and they have messed around with different combinations of spacers on either side of the BB but no luck. The bike tech is going to try dishing the wheel slightly to the non drive to make up the very small difference in space we need. Am I missing something simple here or is this how it would come stock as a 1X from BD as opposed to the 2X? Thanks!


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

gluestick said:


> Hello hoping this is a simple fix. I purchased a 2017 used Sturgis and I'm in the process of converting it from 2x to 1x. I had to grind off part of the front derailleur mount for chain clearance and purchased and installed the same Race Face crank (100mm spindle) that come stock on the current Nx1x. Tires are the Maxxis that is also stock on the current 1X model. My problem is I am getting a bit of chain rub on the sidewall when in the biggest 46 tooth gear (11 x 46) cassette. I have brought it to the shop as I am out of ideas and they have messed around with different combinations of spacers on either side of the BB but no luck. The bike tech is going to try dishing the wheel slightly to the non drive to make up the very small difference in space we need. Am I missing something simple here or is this how it would come stock as a 1X from BD as opposed to the 2X? Thanks!


i have the Nx that comes as 1x11. It came with a 2x crank and the 30t chainring it came with was on the outer (104 mm BCD) spider. I converted to a 26T oval chainring and attached tot he smaller spider (64 mm BCD?). I assume your crank is similar since for me they just used a 2x rank to be 1x. So you should be able to do the same.

With the new smaller chainring chainline moved a bit inboard. I have an AB oval chainring and it is a bit recessed to move it a bit to the outside. the chain is very close to my 4.8" tires, but leaves about 5 mm space.

So it should be possible. I don't thinking dishing the wheel is a good idea, there should be better ways. I assume you installed your single chainring on the inner spider. If you can live with a 30T chainring, you could get one for the outer spider.


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## gluestick (Aug 4, 2017)

Thank you for the reply. It is indeed mounted to the outer spider (farthest from BB). I purchased the same Raceface crank that came standard on your bike. The tech dished the wheel a tad and gained the clearance I needed. A test ride at low pressure with some steep climbing in the snow confirms I am now in the clear. Wondering if anyone else has some input as I would like to one day put a Lou in the back which I am assuming will put me back in the same predicament.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

gluestick said:


> Thank you for the reply. It is indeed mounted to the outer spider (farthest from BB). I purchased the same Raceface crank that came standard on your bike. The tech dished the wheel a tad and gained the clearance I needed. A test ride at low pressure with some steep climbing in the snow confirms I am now in the clear. Wondering if anyone else has some input as I would like to one day put a Lou in the back which I am assuming will put me back in the same predicament.


This is odd since it indicates the chain should also rub in the normal 2x setup when you cross-chain (large-large) and definitely when you would have it run in normal lowest gear (small chainring - large rear cog). Maybe i misunderstand what is going on, but it sounds like something is wrong here and dishing the wheel is just masking the problem.
Or do you have 100mm rims, making the tire wider? I have the original 80mm rims.

maybe some pictures?


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## gluestick (Aug 4, 2017)

Well my rear hub has suffered the same sad fate as the many before it. I am looking at the DT Swiss big ride and was curious if the flange size is the same as the stock Novatec 197mm so I do not have to replace the spokes. Anyone out there know the answer to this?


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

gluestick said:


> Well my rear hub has suffered the same sad fate as the many before it. I am looking at the DT Swiss big ride and was curious if the flange size is the same as the stock Novatec 197mm so I do not have to replace the spokes. Anyone out there know the answer to this?


Very unlikely to fit. Flange size is only one part, also the flange location from the frame may be different (spokes in different angle). Look at a spoke calculator what dimensions play a role.

But for less than a $ you can get DT Swiss double-butted spokes (a bit lighter and stronger than your existing straight spokes). So $32 extra shouldn't be too bad compared to the hub.

To throw in another wrench, look at the DT Swiss rims that are lighter 

I also have the Novatec but only have 350 km so far of easy riding. May i ask how many miles and what riding yours lasted? I'm fully prepared to at some point have to do the same.


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## mountainelf (Dec 14, 2017)

gluestick said:


> Well my rear hub has suffered the same sad fate as the many before it. I am looking at the DT Swiss big ride and was curious if the flange size is the same as the stock Novatec 197mm so I do not have to replace the spokes. Anyone out there know the answer to this?


see post 4227 - seems to be something that can be done:

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/motobecane-sturgis-night-train-thread-932345-43.html#post13465762

This is one of my to-do list items. I will likely do it for the rear wheel only, and only once the Novatec in mine is going out, at least for my winter wheel set. The winter wheels for me are mostly a commuter thing. Summer is where I see more of a need for a stronger hub, so I am thinking of building a second set of wheels for summer use.

Right now I am on the fence between buying another set from BD and lacing in the DT Swiss hubs, or just building something completely from scratch based on carbon rims. All depends how ambitious I am getting about doing the Colorado trail in a fat bike this year. It may take an extra year before I get to that project.


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## mountainelf (Dec 14, 2017)

HerrKaLeun said:


> To throw in another wrench, look at the DT Swiss rims that are lighter


Those lighter rims also bend a lot easier than the Mulefuts.

My Novatec is now 4 months old and has about 800 miles of use on it. Lots of commuting miles with sand and salt, plus some single track use and the hub works like on the first day. That said, I hate how it engages.


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## Mtbstigo (Oct 25, 2016)

So now that the snow is melting and things are picking up speed... What is the lightest you have gotten your fat bikes to? I have the 2018 model with bluto, mulefets, 1x11, and maxxis minions. Medium frame at 36 lbs. I'm hoping I can get to 30ish. Anyone accomplished this?


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## mountainelf (Dec 14, 2017)

Mtbstigo said:


> So now that the snow is melting and things are picking up speed... What is the lightest you have gotten your fat bikes to? I have the 2018 model with bluto, mulefets, 1x11, and maxxis minions. Medium frame at 36 lbs. I'm hoping I can get to 30ish. Anyone accomplished this?


interesting - my bike is a Dec 2017 2x11 with Bluto frame Large and came in at just over 34lbs out of the box. Already changed stem and front bars (carbon), but then added rack and fenders. Still about the same weight. Could be crappy Chinese hanging scale deviation but 2 pounds and being a bigger bike with 2x drivetrain, it should be heavier than yours.

I am going tubeless once I get the second wheel set, likely DIY carbon with DTSwiss hubs, and I may also swap in a carbon seat post. Perhaps a different seat, although I kinda like the one on the bike. It's just a heavy bugger. Ignoring the added weight of racks and fenders, I guess I may get close to 30lbs. Anything lighter than that means lose the Bluto for a carbon fork. I could lose a few ounces going single speed/


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## Mtbstigo (Oct 25, 2016)

Hmm same specs? I used a hanging Chinese scale too I got from Amazon. I suspect most of my weight to be coming from the minion 4.8 tires. I looked them up a while back I think they were 1600g per tires plus heavy tubes. They offer tons of grip on the downhills but they make me want reach cardiac arrest on the uphills. Even in snow on the downhills they would grip... Anyway I might get lighter tubeless summer tires 3.8s or so which I think should fit into the 80mm mulefets. If this bike reaches 30lbs.... I might just leave my fs trail bike behind.


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## mickeyneil (Mar 29, 2018)

Installed a set of skinny 29” wheels on my NTX for the summer.


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## Mtbstigo (Oct 25, 2016)

Looks very nice. How much is that weighing? I imagine sub 30? Also is that a custom wheelset or did you buy 29er rims on fat hubs from somewhere?


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

I'm looking for a way to apply a direct force power meter to my Motobecane Sturgis Bullet. 
Raceface does not yet make their Cinch power meter spindle in fat size. 
I see no hubs compatible. 
This leaves just one possibility. I see Stages makes the following (and is very hard to find). 
Stages GXP Carbon Mountain Bike Power Meter. 

What GXP cranksets will clear the Sturgis? I see people mention the X5, although I tried this way back in the day and the crank hit the frame of my Mongoose with 197 spacing. Perhaps the curved structure of the Motobecane would clear the X5? I see someone else mention X9? I assume these (being sram) are for 170 rear spacing rather than 190? - SRAM doesn't even mention this on their own site. 
Assuming X9 or X5 now work, would I be limited to running the outer ring (meaning I'd have to use a 32 or bigger chainring?) 

I see the new GX Eagle GXP fat crank could use the X-sync 2 direct mount ring. However, those 'LOOK' to be directional and I'm wondering if that would have to be reversed outward to clear the frame or give correct chainline? As the Eagle chainring looks directional I don't think reversing it would work...then again I see a 4" and 5" version (I'm assuming these correlate with 170 and 190 spacing). 

So basically, I don't know if or what would work that's mentioned above. 
I'm currently running a race face aeffect fat crank (170 rear spacing) and reverse a 26 tooth chainring OUT-ward to correct the chainline -and- give a narrow Q-factor for my knees, while still clearing the frame without issue. I'd want to know that I can do something similar before investing a boat-load of money into a power meter. 

Now if Raceface would put the power meter spindle for a fatbike, I'd just do the 170 spacing and (again) reverse the chainring. But I see no ETA on that. The Sammox 190 spacing crank destroyed my knees....I'm a bit worred if other 190 spaced cranks are a similar Q-factor.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

mountainelf said:


> This weekend I added my commuter DIY rear fender. I used corrugated plastic, zip ties, super glue (to connect two sheets of plastic), and a lot of high viz tape.


I did something similar on mine, but I extended the downtube fender and bent the end down in front of the chainrings. Before bending it, I inserted a couple of old spokes to act as stiffeners. This setup protects the drivetrain from the spray off the front wheel and really helps to keep things cleaner and minimize wear.


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## ztbishop (May 11, 2009)

Before I go any further with my idea above on placing a Stages GXP power meter on this bike, can anyone confirm if any of the SRAM fat cranks give enough frame clearance for the power meter which is bonded to the inside of the crank arm?

https://store.stagescycling.com/site/images-product/GXP RD-FG.01.jpg


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## mountainelf (Dec 14, 2017)

ztbishop said:


> Before I go any further with my idea above on placing a Stages GXP power meter on this bike, can anyone confirm if any of the SRAM fat cranks give enough frame clearance for the power meter which is bonded to the inside of the crank arm?
> 
> https://store.stagescycling.com/site/images-product/GXP RD-FG.01.jpg


there should be plenty of room for that thing.


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## mountainelf (Dec 14, 2017)

Over the last few days I've noticed a rather annoying creaking from what appears to be the bottom bracket area. Bike has less than 500 miles on it, mostly commuting, so I am not sure what's up. Chain is clean, pedals and shoes are solid and lubed. It isn't seat or handlebars, and it isn't permanent, just at increased loads. The noise shifts from a persistent "click" at a particular pedal position to a more complex creak and click at various positions around the stroke, again, mostly when pushing higher loads. Spinning low gears usually is quiet.

Already time to take apart the bottom bracket? I am worried the snow and slush of recent has made it through the hole at the bottom of the downtube and is messing up the bearings. Or is there an easier explanation?


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## gluestick (Aug 4, 2017)

Has anyone successfully run an internal dropper post cable on their Sturgis? Looking in with a flashlight, it looks pretty tight in the inside of the seat tube/down tube junction to fit the cable either over or under the BB in there.


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## mountainelf (Dec 14, 2017)

mountainelf said:


> Over the last few days I've noticed a rather annoying creaking from what appears to be the bottom bracket area. Bike has less than 500 miles on it, mostly commuting, so I am not sure what's up. Chain is clean, pedals and shoes are solid and lubed. It isn't seat or handlebars, and it isn't permanent, just at increased loads. The noise shifts from a persistent "click" at a particular pedal position to a more complex creak and click at various positions around the stroke, again, mostly when pushing higher loads. Spinning low gears usually is quiet.
> 
> Already time to take apart the bottom bracket? I am worried the snow and slush of recent has made it through the hole at the bottom of the downtube and is messing up the bearings. Or is there an easier explanation?


I think I found the problem this morning - searching for other bikes with the RaceFace Turbine Cinch having creaking problems pointed at the chainring to axle interface possibly being dirty/dry. For a quick test I soaked it in WD40 and went on a 1 hour ride. Not a single pop or creak!

It's the teeth visible on the left where you want to keep it clean and lubed if you hear creaks under load from a RaceFace turbine crank


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## Clydesdale forever (Apr 18, 2018)

Hey Vdub. I have the same bike and have been happily riding it in all conditions! Deep snow, mud, dry single track, rails to trails. Made a couple of small changes to the original set-up since I got it in January. Converted to tubeless and went with a 4" Jumbo Jim on the back and left the Maxis 4.8 on the front. Works Great! Noticeably faster rolling than with the stock tire on back. Close to 400 miles on it and I may never use my full carbon 29'er ever again!


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

mountainelf said:


> Over the last few days I've noticed a rather annoying creaking from what appears to be the bottom bracket area. Bike has less than 500 miles on it, mostly commuting, so I am not sure what's up. Chain is clean, pedals and shoes are solid and lubed. It isn't seat or handlebars, and it isn't permanent, just at increased loads. The noise shifts from a persistent "click" at a particular pedal position to a more complex creak and click at various positions around the stroke, again, mostly when pushing higher loads. Spinning low gears usually is quiet.
> 
> Already time to take apart the bottom bracket? I am worried the snow and slush of recent has made it through the hole at the bottom of the downtube and is messing up the bearings. Or is there an easier explanation?


An easy check, please verify tightness of the crank-ring bolts. They came loose on me......

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

One of my work buddies is sold on these bikes after he demoed mine.

Anyone have a good deal on a used medium Sturgis or Night Train? Located in the greater DC area.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Just pulled apart my rear axle, to re-tighten my Novatech hub. Cant find any axle spacers, I can't remember when they might have dissapeared.

Is the only source for these things Bikes Direct, or is there another source for these tiny spacers?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Just pulled apart my rear axle, to re-tighten my Novatech hub. Cant find any axle spacers, I can't remember when they might have dissapeared.
> 
> Is the only source for these things Bikes Direct, or is there another source for these tiny spacers?


I didn't think the stock wheels came with axle spacers on the rear axle, just their aftermarket novatec "197" rear wheels. Are you sure you're missing them?


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> I didn't think the stock wheels came with axle spacers on the rear axle, just their aftermarket novatec "197" rear wheels. Are you sure you're missing them?


I really can't remember. This is a 2014/2015 model, and I could have sworn there were axle spacers on this silly novatec hub. Am I hallucinating?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

There's a very simple way to tell, *put the wheel back on the bike*. If it fits the frame properly, you don't need spacers. If you do need spacers, it will be obvious. A 30-second test could have saved you days of waiting for a definitive answer here.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Bnystrom said:


> There's a very simple way to tell, *put the wheel back on the bike*. If it fits the frame properly, you don't need spacers. If you do need spacers, it will be obvious. A 30-second test could have saved you days of waiting for a definitive answer here.


Ok. So when I pull out the axle, should the hub fit flush in the dropouts, or should there be any gap?

Update:
I was a complete novice on all things bike when I put this thing together when I bought it.

It definitely needed spacers, I had no idea how it was supposed to go together. I'm not confident the spacers were ever shipped with the bike.

Even better, now that the wheel fits correctly in the rear triangle, the axle is about 5mm short (obviously) in the derailleur hanger.

Now to purchase a new axle, I guess.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

*internally routed dropper post*

I searched this thread and it seems some people installed EXTERNALLY routed dropper posts. Some people seem to speculate one could install an internally routed post by routing the cable around the BB... but it wasn't clear if someone actually did.

My apologies if I just missed this already resolved. I never had a dropper post.

I have the 2018 Sturgis NX and believe all the frames are the same. 
so can one install an internally routed dropper post? And if so, what is the trick?


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

HerrKaLeun said:


> I searched this thread and it seems some people installed EXTERNALLY routed dropper posts. Some people seem to speculate one could install an internally routed post by routing the cable around the BB... but it wasn't clear if someone actually did.
> 
> My apologies if I just missed this already resolved. I never had a dropper post.
> 
> ...


I think you can only use a dropper with external cable. There's no access hole at the bottom of the seat tube to run an internal cable through. That's what I had to do but my Sturgis is the 2015 model and I don't know if they put a hole at the bottom for the 2018 models. Just look around at the bottom of the seat tube either just above the bottom bracket where the seat tube, down tube, and the chain stays meet or behind it.


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

And then this happened....


----------



## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

MaximumX said:


> And then this happened....
> 
> View attachment 1215139


I think someone has stolen half of your fork.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

WhiskeyJr said:


> I think someone has stolen half of your fork.


Or did I steal half of theirs?


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## Womby (Aug 16, 2018)

Hi,

I recently picked up a '15 NightTrain Bullet (17.5") local off Craigslist as my first fatbike. I have finally read through all 43 pages and have several questions at this point.

1. Re: derailleur hanger. Now that both the improved BD version and a machined alternative (at twice the price) have been available for awhile--which are people having better experience with? Is the new hanger #28 doing the job? The bike I bought has the silver, one "ear" version so it clearly isn't the original and I want to have a spare on hand.

2. Lightweight tubes--I saw the Q Tubes SLs kinda went from a popular mod for those not going tubeless (I'm in that camp for a couple reasons) early on to something that has caused some people issues and many are now avoiding. My plan now is to run 3.8-4" tires on trails outside Winter and something 4.7-8" in the snow. Has anyone found a lighter-than-stock tube that can handle that range of tire widths?

3. There was discussion of people putting 29er and 27.5+ wheelsets on in summer and liking it. 27.5 Fat seems to be the new thing and I'm wondering if anybody has tried that on their Sturgis/NightTrain yet and how clearance & performance were. If it works on the NT, I may hold off buying 4.0" JJs for 3 season trail use and wait to see if BD comes out with a 27.5Fat wheelset for sale next Spring instead.

4. Has anyone put a bash guard on their 2x setup? I know I'm going to have to wear actual pants for snow riding up here in VT and wondering how people (especially those using it to commute) keep the grease off their pants in Winter.

5. Standover and the Bluto--I know a number of folks have changed their Bluto from 120mm travel to 100mm and I'm leaning toward doing that too both for improved handling on the kinds of trails I ride (not a "bomb down the mountain" kinda guy) as well as getting more standover. Did anyone who changed the fork travel measure the actual difference they got in both SO and BB height/drop? Before I sink the time into reading the Bluto thread and the money into making the change I thought I'd see if anyone had the actual #s specific to the Sturgis/NT.


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## tonyride1 (Oct 5, 2005)

I'm selling my Sturgis Bullet is anyone is interested. The link to the ad is here: 2015 Motobecane Sturgis Bullet - MTBR Classifieds I'm in central NJ. Make me an offer.


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## lalahg (Nov 9, 2015)

KTMNealio said:


> I bent 2 of Bikes Direct hangers from just laying the bike over. They are junk.
> 
> I went with the #416 hanger and its been great:
> 
> Derailleur Hanger #416


Here's a new link for this hanger.
https://derailleurhanger.com/product/derailleur-hanger-416/

I've been through 2 hangers from bd and one from pilo. Hope this one lasts.


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## Womby (Aug 16, 2018)

I know it was asked, but I don't think ever answered...what is the a2c length of the stock fork on the non-bullet Sturgis/Nighttrain?


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## gluestick (Aug 4, 2017)

Does anyone know what crown race I need to buy for my Sturgis? Bought it second-hand with a Bluto fork and a crown race installed on that. I would like to put a crown race on the stock rigid fork for winter riding.

Thanks!


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

Womby said:


> I know it was asked, but I don't think ever answered...what is the a2c length of the stock fork on the non-bullet Sturgis/Nighttrain?


I don't know the length but I know they stated that adding a bluto would cause the standover to rise by 1". I'm pretty sure bullets shipped with a 120m bluto. Might be easier to find info on the bluto than Sturgis


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## Womby (Aug 16, 2018)

Sorry if I was unclear, I'm looking to find out what the A2C is on the stock alloy fork (non-Bluto) because it is only with that length that you get the geometry advertised for BB height, HT angle, etc. I've got a NT Bullet with 120mm travel and, while I'm liking it, I'd actually like to try to get the fork length adjusted to try it with the geometry matched for the rigid geometry.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

Womby said:


> Sorry if I was unclear, I'm looking to find out what the A2C is on the stock alloy fork (non-Bluto) because it is only with that length that you get the geometry advertised for BB height, HT angle, etc. I've got a NT Bullet with 120mm travel and, while I'm liking it, I'd actually like to try to get the fork length adjusted to try it with the geometry matched for the rigid geometry.


Maybe set the bluto so standover 1" higher than advertised specs and measure A/C. Then reduce bluto height so it drops standover by 1" and measure new bluto A/C. Bikedirect sells a carbon fork that has a 480mm A/C. Or their cr-mo fork they sell says it's 455 A/C. But that's different than the stock sturgis fork as the sturgis had thru axles and this one has QR


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## gluestick (Aug 4, 2017)

Does anyone out there know what size crown race I need for the stock rigid fork on a Sturgis?


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

Happy 4 year anniversary to original generation of Sturgis and Night Train folks


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

just picked up an 2018 Night Train Express (GX 1x11 version) which has been lowered to $1400 down from $1500 originally. Out of the box the 17.5 frame weighs about 33 lbs stock with no reflectors and no pedals (measured with bathroom scale method). I was hoping for sub 30 but hopefully it won't be that hard to get it under 30 without spending too much. I already have some lighter tires coming in which should help, plus I've read the stock tubes and rim strip are heavy, so we'll see how much we can lose just from that. 

Looking at the weights for the Maxxis Minions, they are 1600g each.. that's over 7 pounds of rubber on the bike. If I were to swap to Kenda Juggernauts I would definitely be sub 30, though I've read they have really bad rolling resistance. Going tubeless could possibly get into the 28 range, which is fast approaching the advertised weight on the Titanium model at 26.3 for tubeless with Juggernauts

edit: I got out a better scale and did some measurements after swapping some tires.. got it down to 13.6 kg which is 29.98.. sub 30! :lol: that's with some cheap pedals on there... definitely sub 30 without the pedals. And just with a tire and tube swap. Swapped out the stock Minions for some 120tpi Speedsters in 26x3.5. Speedsters measure about 3.9 wide on the 80mm rims

The actual weight of the Minions was 1700g and the actual weight of the speedsters is 1050g.. I swapped in some 26x2.3 tubes I had which were about a pound lighter (each wheel!) than the stock tubes too. It feels so much better with at least two pounds off each wheel. I didn't even test ride the stock set up but just moving the bike around it felt like there was lead in the wheels. If I went tubeless I think I could lose another half pound or so. That's pretty good without even swapping any components or wheels or anything. I'm pretty happy with the purchase


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

Wow, 4 years already? Mine arrived 11/20/14 (with a bent der hanger).


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## Gendy (Feb 24, 2018)

I've seen a lot of great shots of the matte gray, anybody have a good picture of the 
midnight purple? 

Also i see a lot of mention of black friday on bikesdirect.com, but i guess its just certain bikes? Cant see them actually discounting most bikes any further. I've been looking at the nighttrain express for over a year, really debating finally pulling the trigger

One more question, does BD not list the stack height of their bikes in the geo charts?


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

My Night Trail Ti arrived 3 years ago now and it still puts a smile on my face every time I ride it. I've made some modifications but did not have to, I just made it more 'mine'. I did upgrade the bottom bracket which cured the creaking but I have not touched the Bluto despite lots of winter riding. Other additions are dropper (non-winter), 100mm tubeless wheels, and 22/32 x 11-42.


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## Casual_Rider (May 14, 2017)

What do you call those things that go over the hand grips (which I assume are to keep your hands warm)? I think I need to get something like that...


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## toadmeister (Sep 24, 2017)

Casual_Rider said:


> What do you call those things that go over the hand grips (which I assume are to keep your hands warm)? I think I need to get something like that...


Pogies is what I hear them called. I'm getting a pair myself, the 45NRTH brand.


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

Gendy said:


> Also i see a lot of mention of black friday on bikesdirect.com, but i guess its just certain bikes? Cant see them actually discounting most bikes any further. I've been looking at the nighttrain express for over a year, really debating finally pulling the trigger


The GX 1x11 Night Train Express is $100 less than it used to be, but they don't usually lower prices significantly until they are trying to close out on a model.

I'm super happy with my night train express... here's some pics of the blue/purple one btw https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2105836/


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## Womby (Aug 16, 2018)

Finally got in my first ride on snow yesterday with the Night Train Bullet I picked up off Craigslist this Sept. Snow wasn't deep but not well packed (was an open field) and had some patches of rough ice. It was as fun as I hoped it would be. I did a lot of smiling. Had to stop after a half hour as I was drenched--dialing in my layers is clearly something I'm going to have to work on. 

Also need to figure out tire pressure (big surprise there). I'm 165# and had 5psi front 4psi rear while running the original tock Vee Snowshoe 4.5s. That was fine where the snow was packed by walkers or just only 1-2" deep. But when I got into deeper drift areas there was no float. So I'm guessing I need to go even lower.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

toadmeister said:


> Pogies is what I hear them called. I'm getting a pair myself, the 45NRTH brand.


I just picked up a set and they are much better than the Bar Mitts I used previously. I had to downgrade my gloves at 6°F because the ones I wore were too hot.


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

I think I read in this thread or somewhere that someone switched the BB spindle to a shorter one on the night train? it seems like there probably would be clearance and also get the chainring in the center of the cassette more (though I'm not having chainline issues).. anybody do this? what size spindle did you use?


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

170mm if you have the Race Face Turbine cranks. Works great for me but cant guaranty it if you have large feet or ride with your heels angled in. No clearance issues with Minion or Jumbo Jim 4.8s.


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

robc in wi said:


> 170mm if you have the Race Face Turbine cranks. Works great for me but cant guaranty it if you have large feet or ride with your heels angled in. No clearance issues with Minion or Jumbo Jim 4.8s.


Looking on Raceface's website, I see a 68/73 spindle kit, a 100mm spindle kit and a 190 spindle kit, but no 170mm kit? Their website says the 100mm spindle should be compatible with 197 rear spacing..


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

Universalcycles.com has them. Item # 67411-159660. Raceface cinch 169.5 mm spindle kit. This the one i installed.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

My 2015 Moto Sturgis Bullet still takes me on some epic rides....


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

robc in wi said:


> Universalcycles.com has them. Item # 67411-159660. Raceface cinch 169.5 mm spindle kit. This the one i installed.


thanks!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> Further review after the last ride indicates that my NDS crank bearing has been contaminated. While the "seals" are pretty weak, I'm going to fess up and say that it's probably my own fault that I didn't pack the "seals" with grease to keep water-borne grit from getting in. Riding in the frozen conditions it was of no concern, but in my haste to ride I forgot to get back to it. :madman: My advice is to catch it early. It was literally overnight that the bearing nearly seized up. I'm good at reviving old, abused parts, though, so I got it smoothed out again. :thumbsup:
> View attachment 989464
> 
> BTW - after this ride, I washed the bike - gently - and still poured out about a 1/4 cup of clean water from the NDS chainstay and bottom bracket. So the frame is not sealed very tight. I may have to address that with the clear silicone (which also addresses cable rub if applied neatly).
> ...





Fleas said:


> Wayyyy back in this thread, ~3 mos. after I got my Sturgis, I noticed the bottom bracket was binding a little. I took it apart and removed the dust covers from the bearings and found rust. I cleaned them, packed them with grease, wiped the inside of the bottom bracket with grease, re-assembled with more grease, and now it is running very well. And it has been ridden completely submerged in creeks and lakes with sand and sediment stirring in the water. I've ridden on slushy, salty roads, muddy farm tracks, and sandy beaches. The grease keeps the junk out.
> BTW - my frame holds probably 8 oz. of water that needs to be drained after really wet rides.
> 
> -F


OK, it is once again bottom bracket maintenance time.

Sometime in the interim, I did pop the seals and add a little Tenacious Oil to the BB bearings, but that was being pretty lazy, so I finally did a complete breakdown, clean, and re-lube this past weekend. Mind you, these bearings are still from 2015. One of the bearings was just about locked up after the World Fatbike Day Ride in the rain last week, so it was time.
They are nearly like new again.
But if your bearings are unrecoverable, this is the number:







"6805RS"

Should be good for several more years.

-F


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## scottspark60 (Feb 1, 2013)

robc in wi said:


> 170mm if you have the Race Face Turbine cranks. Works great for me but cant guaranty it if you have large feet or ride with your heels angled in. No clearance issues with Minion or Jumbo Jim 4.8s.


I'm using a RF Turbine Cinch crank arms (for 170mm rear spacing) and Wolftooth direct mount 28T chainring on my Sturgis. So far, the only issue I have is a little chain rub on my Jumbo Jim 4.8 tire when I shift to the lowest 42T cog on my 10spd cassette. 
I'm gonna replace my Jumbo Jim 4.8 later (it's 3 years old already) and I'll try to flip the chainring this time to get rid of the chain to tire rubbing.


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

For those of you who have purchased the 29er wheelset from BikesDirect, have you been satisfied overall with the purchase?

Considering a set for my Diamondback ElOso, as a way to lighten the bike up for commuting purposes without spending BIG dollars on different wheelset.


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## AWDBOB (Mar 8, 2016)

frantik! said:


> just picked up an 2018 Night Train Express (GX 1x11 version) which has been lowered to $1400 down from $1500 originally. Out of the box the 17.5 frame weighs about 33 lbs stock with no reflectors and no pedals (measured with bathroom scale method). I was hoping for sub 30 but hopefully it won't be that hard to get it under 30 without spending too much. I already have some lighter tires coming in which should help, plus I've read the stock tubes and rim strip are heavy, so we'll see how much we can lose just from that.
> 
> Looking at the weights for the Maxxis Minions, they are 1600g each.. that's over 7 pounds of rubber on the bike. If I were to swap to Kenda Juggernauts I would definitely be sub 30, though I've read they have really bad rolling resistance. Going tubeless could possibly get into the 28 range, which is fast approaching the advertised weight on the Titanium model at 26.3 for tubeless with Juggernauts
> 
> ...


I just purchased the same exact bike, down to frame size and color! It certainly seemed like the best deal with the extra $100 off.

The bike was 10x nicer than I was expecting.

That's quite exciting to hear how easily you can get it under 30lbs.

I must ask- my front through axle on the thread size of the hub will not go all of the way through.

Has anyone else had this issue on these hubs? Seems like one side of the front hub (non disc side) has too small of an insert on it for the through axle.

Untitled by Bobbie Morrone, on Flickr

*Edit:

*
The non disc side measured 14.85mm for some reason. I just bored it out to 15mm with my carbide quick and it's good to go.

Untitled by Bobbie Morrone, on Flickr
Untitled by Bobbie Morrone, on Flickr


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## AWDBOB (Mar 8, 2016)

It's crazy how much the wheels/tires weigh.

The setup that comes on the NT Express:

Tubes: 1200g
Tires: 3300g
Rims: 1660g
Front hub: 219g
Rear hub: 421g
64 spokes/nipples: 382g

7182g (15.8lbs)

Just going to a lighter tire (Jumbo Jim @2380g/pr) and running tubeless would save almost 5lbs (2120g).

Doing a DT Swiss BR2250 wheelset (2228g/set), converting to tubeless, and switching to "Jumbo Jims" (2380g/pr) would bring all of that down to 4608g (~10.1lbs).


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

^ thanks for the detailled breakdown of the wheels/tires/tubes. I bought some Blizzerk 70 rims which should be ~300g total lighter than the Mulefuts. Combined with lighter hubs and double butted spokes there should be at least a pound of savings off the wheelset


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## gluestick (Aug 4, 2017)

My deraileur hanger made the ultimate sacrifice the other day and I need to order a new one. Can someone kindly tell me which # one it is I need to order from Bikes Direct?

Thanks!

Eric


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## Motofatti (Mar 30, 2016)

#32 for my 16 Nightrain Stufis Ti


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## Womby (Aug 16, 2018)

Motofatti said:


> #32 for my 16 Nightrain Stufis Ti


And the non Ti frame hanger is #28 at BD. Or go here for a machined aluminum version: https://derailleurhanger.com/product/derailleur-hanger-416/


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## Womby (Aug 16, 2018)

Thinking ahead to having holiday money to spend on summer wheels--those of you using this in the summer season too, what wheelsize are you running (and what terrain)? 26"x4"? 29"x3"? Anyone using 27.5 Fat wheels on their Sturgis or NT?


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## aroundoz (Sep 9, 2008)

Can someone tell me the difference between the Sturgis and NIghtTrain? I am getting ready to pull the trigger on either the $1999 NightTrain Biullet or more likely the $1599 Sturgis. 

I know the components are different of course but is their a difference in the frame?


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## AWDBOB (Mar 8, 2016)

aroundoz said:


> Can someone tell me the difference between the Sturgis and NIghtTrain? I am getting ready to pull the trigger on either the $1999 NightTrain Biullet or more likely the $1599 Sturgis.
> 
> I know the components are different of course but is their a difference in the frame?


AFAIK the frame is exactly the same if you're comparing Al to Al.


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## aroundoz (Sep 9, 2008)

AWDBOB said:


> AFAIK the frame is exactly the same if you're comparing Al to Al.


Thanks for the response. Just wondering what makes one a Sturgis and the other a NightTrain then but won't worry about it.

The $400 difference for the NightTrain doesn't seem to gain that much except for the XT Brakes. I have a set of SLXs in reserve and will put those on the $1599 Sturgis if the Tektros don't perform but the reviews for them have been surprisingly good.


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## AWDBOB (Mar 8, 2016)

aroundoz said:


> Thanks for the response. Just wondering what makes one a Sturgis and the other a NightTrain then but won't worry about it.
> 
> The $400 difference for the NightTrain doesn't seem to gain that much except for the XT Brakes. I have a set of SLXs in reserve and will put those on the $1599 Sturgis if the Tektros don't perform but the reviews for them have been surprisingly good.


Peep this one (the one I just ended up with): http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/carbon-fork-fat-bikes-nt-express.htm

It's $100 off and seemed like the best balance, and comes with the carbon fork (raceface crank/BB, Guide RS brakes, Sram GX 11sp, etc)


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## aroundoz (Sep 9, 2008)

AWDBOB said:


> Peep this one (the one I just ended up with): http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/carbon-fork-fat-bikes-nt-express.htm
> 
> It's $100 off and seemed like the best balance, and comes with the carbon fork (raceface crank/BB, Guide RS brakes, Sram GX 11sp, etc)


Thanks for that. Another one to consider.

Originally I was going to go with a rigid fork but after some searching, people were recommending front suspension. But it wouldn't take much to talk me into a rigid fork since I mostly will be doing rails to trails anyway.


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

aroundoz said:


> Can someone tell me the difference between the Sturgis and NIghtTrain? I am getting ready to pull the trigger on either the $1999 NightTrain Biullet or more likely the $1599 Sturgis.
> 
> I know the components are different of course but is their a difference in the frame?


Absolutely no difference in frame. It looks like there are various pairs of Sturgis and Night train models on the BD site, with the Sturgis being the lower specd version of a similar Night Train model.. ie Sturgis Bullet and Night Train Bullet, the Night Train is going to be the higher end.

The Night Train Express for $1400 is definitely a good deal, I'm happy with the pick up and if you're just riding rail trails you probably don't need the extra weight of the suspension fork.


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

my head tube and head badge have gotten some significant scratches from the front brake line rubbing against it, and I've barely put on 50 miles or so. I was thinking of maybe running the line under the fork but it just seems like then the fork would get scratched up instead of the frame? I'm gonna put on a frame protection sticker but it seems like the routing for this could be improved


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## justin70 (Sep 17, 2007)

My Novatec rear hub failed recently, ring gear in multiple pieces which seems to be the common problem. I am a clydesdale (260lbs). I had similar hubs on a santa cruz hardtail and they failed within 3 months. The novatec hubs are unfortunately total garbage if you are heavy. 

Anyhow, I got around to replacing the novatec hub with a dt swiss big ride hub. I have the sun ringle mulefut rims (ERD 551). Just some advice if anyone is planning to swap out hubs: when looking for new spokes make sure you use a spoke calculator that takes into account the distance between the left and right spoke holes (on most rims the spoke holes run along the center of the rim, but fat bikes they are off to either side). The first calculator I used didn't do this and my first set of spokes were 3mm too long. Good learning experience. Once I got the right spokes it laced up no problem. Just for reference, with the big ride hub with 6 bolt disc mount and the sun ringle mulefut rim (ERD 551), the spokes lengths were 268 on the left, 267 on the right. But you should measure you own rim/hubs to make sure.


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

justin70 said:


> The first calculator I used didn't do this and my first set of spokes were 3mm too long. ... Just for reference, with the big ride hub with 6 bolt disc mount and the sun ringle mulefut rim (ERD 551), the spokes lengths were 268 on the left, 267 on the right. But you should measure you own rim/hubs to make sure.


Too long is better than too short! I did this once and my LBS trimmed them down for me for free.

I thought 197 hubs had symmetrical spokes, surprised there is a slight difference in spoke lengths


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## bmbird4 (Jul 8, 2017)

*Then & Now*

2015 Sturgis Bullet Ti / Large

Came in at 34-35lbs stock
Currently sub ~27lbs


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

sweet..ti and carbon, two great tastes that taste great together! I like my aluminum one but I think eventually I need to upgrade to Ti


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

has anyone run an internally routed dropper on a aluminum night train/sturgis? I was thinking of using the routing in the frame for the front derailleur cable and then running it past the bb and up the seat tube.. is this even possible? I haven't checked if the tubes are open


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

so the no name riser bar weighs almost a pound.. 377g! Switch that out for something lighter for some massive weight loss. I went with a china carbon bar and dropped over half a pound. Currently running about 28.8 lbs! 

Next I want to switch out the seat post and saddle, and eventually the entire wheelset for something lighter with an XD driver. The SRAM XD cassettes are way lighter than the shimano-compatible NX one that comes on the Night train (both the 11 and 12 speed models)


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## gluestick (Aug 4, 2017)

frantik! said:


> has anyone run an internally routed dropper on a aluminum night train/sturgis? I was thinking of using the routing in the frame for the front derailleur cable and then running it past the bb and up the seat tube.. is this even possible? I haven't checked if the tubes are open


I had the same question a little while ago. When I took things apart it did not appear as if there was room for a cable to run by the bottom bracket inside the frame. I ended up running the housing into the top of the down tube and coming out of the bottom bracket area with a single zip tie on the seat tube on the way up to the saddle to keep the housing away from the rear tire.


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## AWDBOB (Mar 8, 2016)

frantik! said:


> so the no name riser bar weighs almost a pound.. 377g! Switch that out for something lighter for some massive weight loss. I went with a china carbon bar and dropped over half a pound. Currently running about 28.8 lbs!
> 
> Next I want to switch out the seat post and saddle, and eventually the entire wheelset for something lighter with an XD driver. The SRAM XD cassettes are way lighter than the shimano-compatible NX one that comes on the Night train (both the 11 and 12 speed models)


Care to share the bars you ended up with? I've been looking but haven't been able to settle on one.

Also, on prowheelbuilder.com I was able to build an awesome fatbike wheelset for just over $1K that beats out the BR2250 in strength and weight for almost the same price.

HED BAD Al
DTSwiss Big Ride Front Centerlock
I9 Torch Rear
Al XD Freehub
Laser Jbends DB

1998g, $1123


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

AWDBOB said:


> Care to share the bars you ended up with? I've been looking but haven't been able to settle on one.


I got these.. i haven't ridden them yet but they look nice and the color matches the matte grey of the night train express 11 speed model. The bend is very similar, and they weigh over half a pound less than the stock bars

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-US-MTB...-Road-Cycling-Bicycle-Riser-Bars/112982521013

and idk if i will get my wheelset below 2000g but it should be well below $1000.. got some Alex 70 rims for a little over $50 each, havent decided which hubs to use but probably dt swiss 350s and some double butted spokes. Should hopefully drop well over a pound with a wheel and cassette change


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

gluestick said:


> I had the same question a little while ago. When I took things apart it did not appear as if there was room for a cable to run by the bottom bracket inside the frame. I ended up running the housing into the top of the down tube and coming out of the bottom bracket area with a single zip tie on the seat tube on the way up to the saddle to keep the housing away from the rear tire.


ah, bummer.. I hate the way externally routed droppers look. There's already cable guides along the top tube which I assume were for a dropper


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

frantik! said:


> ah, bummer.. I hate the way externally routed droppers look. There's already cable guides along the top tube which I assume were for a dropper


I barely notice it.


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

I notice it! You've got the saddle low too so it's less obvious but when the saddle is up high and there's a long cable running to it, i don't like it. All the exposed cables/housing on the Ti model running down the top tube is actually one thing i like a lot about the aluminum frame


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Maybe you have a different dropper, my cable doesn't move. My dropper is a KS Lev.


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

Dilligaff said:


> Maybe you have a different dropper, my cable doesn't move. My dropper is a KS Lev.


ah ok, that's not too bad. I've seen droppers where the cable runs all the way to where the saddle clamps, that looks really bad with a big loop of cable flapping around


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I have not seen those but it sounds horrible. I wouldn’t run a dropper that did that. I’ve been happy with the KS Lev, recommended to me by a friend at the LBS who has forgotten more about bikes than I’ll ever know. He said you can spend more but not get more for the money.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

I recently installed the PNW cascade and the cable doesn't move with the saddle.


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## AWDBOB (Mar 8, 2016)

Got bored and made this. I'll continue to update as I upgrade parts.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1D3YyTG9db-WgbaB1q14UOzsZIxzUy-G7uDx18dRFsBI/edit?usp=sharing


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I made the switch from Wrathchilds to Johnny5's for winter and WOW are they massive. They are the largest tire that will fit the frame, no question. They're even larger than my Bud/FBR combo I use for summer. So far they're awesome and I am very impressed.


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## bmbird4 (Jul 8, 2017)

Your fitting a 5" inside your Bluto? Also, what rim are you running? And lastly, how much room inside your chainstays do you have? I've been thinking about getting SnowshoeXLs... But this is making me think XXLs...


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

The snowshoe XXL won't fit...not even close. I couldn't even insert the skewer.









The J5's measure 4.85" on my 100mm Turnagain tubeless rims, and there is maybe 4mm on either side and the chain.
















Here is the clearance in the Bluto.


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

AWDBOB said:


> Got bored and made this. I'll continue to update as I upgrade parts.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1D3YyTG9db-WgbaB1q14UOzsZIxzUy-G7uDx18dRFsBI/edit?usp=sharing


awesome! thanks.. are those actual weights or manufacturer claimed weights? wondering about that seat post cause that's next on my list


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## tankhead10 (Dec 6, 2014)

Dilligaff said:


> I have not seen those but it sounds horrible. I wouldn't run a dropper that did that. I've been happy with the KS Lev, recommended to me by a friend at the LBS who has forgotten more about bikes than I'll ever know. He said you can spend more but not get more for the money.


Hey there Dilli,
Could you provide the exact model and length KS Lev dropper that you have? Thanks, Chris


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

frantik! said:


> Too long is better than too short! I did this once and my LBS trimmed them down for me for free.
> 
> I thought 197 hubs had symmetrical spokes, surprised there is a slight difference in spoke lengths


But not every shop has the tools to do this, so it really is best to get it right the first time. There are only 2 shops in Boulder, CO (maybe 3) that have a tool to trim/thread spokes, and we have 24 shops last I checked. Its also a fine skill to use both the Phil and the Morizumi tool, and with the cost of the 'zumi tool, its no wonder that most shops don't have it, not to mention that it really does perform best if cleaned after every 100 spokes cut/thread.


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## AWDBOB (Mar 8, 2016)

frantik! said:


> awesome! thanks.. are those actual weights or manufacturer claimed weights? wondering about that seat post cause that's next on my list


A mix of claimed and actual weights. As I upgrade stuff I've been weighing it, also did a lot of research in regards to finding folks who actually weighed stuff.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

tankhead10 said:


> Hey there Dilli,
> Could you provide the exact model and length KS Lev dropper that you have? Thanks, Chris


Sure, it's a KS Lev DX, 125mm dropper in 31.6. I've had it just over 2 years and it's holding up very well.


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## Gendy (Feb 24, 2018)

Anybody think there will be any changes coming to the night train this year? I planned to order the matte grey NT Express this month, but unfortunately its completely sold out. Not really feeling the purple. The matte black also looks great on the NT Eagle, but would prefer a carbon fork over eagle. Also eying a Farley at my LBS which looks really sharp, but is a few hundred more.... Not sure what to do : (


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Can’t go wrong with a Farley. You won’t be singled out and may be more accepted in the fatbike crowd, in addition to supporting your local bike shop, which is always a plus. If I found one with similar components locally, I’d go with the Farley. I found nothing close for what I wanted (for the money) so I went with the NTB.


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## glockrocket17 (Aug 26, 2015)

I was looking at the motobecane in my fatbike search. I ended up getting a Farley 7 and have been very happy with my purchase. I love the way it rides. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Gendy (Feb 24, 2018)

I've had 2 Treks and they were awesome bikes, this years Farley 5 looks great imo. Tough to justify the extra $500+ and to end up with a 10spd though


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## Hytek369 (Jun 23, 2015)

Gendy said:


> I've had 2 Treks and they were awesome bikes, this years Farley 5 looks great imo. Tough to justify the extra $500+ and to end up with a 10spd though


I am exactly on the same boat. I like the Farley because of the 27.5 x 4.5 wheel/tires. I test drove one and it felt good. However, the NT express is a good deal. I am debating between this and the NT titanium. Trying to see if I can justify the $900 difference.


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

Dilligaff said:


> You won't be singled out and may be more accepted in the fatbike crowd


i'm honestly surprised people still make a big deal over bikes direct bikes.. I forgot when I bought mine that wannabe bike snobs love to hate on BD. The funniest is when they have shittier bikes and are still trying to chirp. I do wish they would spend a few more bucks on their art dept though.


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

Gendy said:


> Anybody think there will be any changes coming to the night train this year? I planned to order the matte grey NT Express this month, but unfortunately its completely sold out. Not really feeling the purple. The matte black also looks great on the NT Eagle, but would prefer a carbon fork over eagle. Also eying a Farley at my LBS which looks really sharp, but is a few hundred more.... Not sure what to do : (


There is the Night Train Express in Gloss Black with a carbon fork with GX Eagle. I doubt we will see an update to the NT frame any time soon. The grey 11 speed NTExpress has been replaced by the Gloss Black 12 speed version. That's why they put it on clearance


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## Gendy (Feb 24, 2018)

frantik! said:


> There is the Night Train Express in Gloss Black with a carbon fork with GX Eagle. I doubt we will see an update to the NT frame any time soon. The grey 11 speed NTExpress has been replaced by the Gloss Black 12 speed version. That's why they put it on clearance


I cant do that gloss black : ( Still hemming/hawwing between the matte black, purple, or stache. I'm sure i'll be happy with any, just over thinking it i suppose


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

buy the gloss black and have it repainted or powdercoated any color you like, probably for less than $100 if you can get it done locally

or buy one of the ones with a suspension fork in the color you like and buy the carbon fork they sell and swap it. more expensive but it might be eaiser


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

for those playing along at home, the stock seat post is 385g and the stock saddle is 367g on the 11 speed night train express and probably other models. easy to drop weight in this area!


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Hi guys, do any of you have advice for cleaning/lubing the Nighttrain's Novatec freehub body? I'm not talking about the ratchet/pawls area, I'm talking about the freehub body bearings.

Any input is much appreciated. Thanks!


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Mine are sealed and thus not serviceable. I replaced them once with decent bearings and am riding on them again.


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## fatfart (Nov 22, 2017)

Ready to pull the trigger on the ti Night Train w/Bluto forks. Does it have a lock out for fork? Not a fan of suspension forks but think my aging body will like them better. 

I have owned two large Diamondback EL Oso de Acero fat bike and test drove many fat bikes and always felt the large (5’11”) was more comfortable. BD and this forum recommended medium. Is my toe going to hit or rub on front tire in tight turns with the shorter frame? Don’t want that! And I don’t want to feel cramped on the bike either. 

I weigh 215 plus is the bike to haul beer and groceries as it’s my only transportation when I’m Alaska. Will this bike handle heavy weight?

Of all the fat bikes I have rode my favorite one was the Specialized Fatboy Comp Carbon large. It even had a quiet rear hub I was looking for. If the clicker on the Night Train makes any noise I will be getting Onix silent hub. I want no noise other than from the tyres. 

Only thing I don’t like about the Fatboy Comp Carbon is its carbon fiber. Not sure if carbon can handle being thrown in and out of bush planes by people that are not happy to load and unload them. Also my buddy just wants to throw the bikes in a pile in the bed of the truck for transporting. Can carbon hold up to that abuse? Can aluminum even handle that?

I like riding in wet muddy sandy dirty conditions. The Diamondback bike bearings just got packed with sand and mud and frame was rusting from being out in the rain all summer and this why I sold them.y Is the ti Night Train going to be the correct bike for me or should I keep looking for another fat bike? PS: I am not a Weeble Wobble so I do fall down when riding.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

fatfart said:


> Ready to pull the trigger on the ti Night Train w/Bluto forks. Does it have a lock out for fork? Not a fan of suspension forks but think my aging body will like them better.
> 
> I have owned two large Diamondback EL Oso de Acero fat bike and test drove many fat bikes and always felt the large (5'11") was more comfortable. BD and this forum recommended medium. Is my toe going to hit or rub on front tire in tight turns with the shorter frame? Don't want that! And I don't want to feel cramped on the bike either.
> 
> ...


I have the all-aluminum NT (2016), w/o bluto. I love mine and have put a zillion miles on it.

I'm 6' and I like the LARGE. No issues with toes hitting tires (and I wear 13s) or with feeling cramped. I have never sat on a MED but I suspect I might find it a bit cramped.

Do you really need shocks? It sounds like you would do fine without them; the fat tires are pretty darn forgiving, especially if you run them at a bit lower pressure. Plus, shocks are just another thing to corrode, wear out, and require maintenance. No shocks -- no problems.

I would be a little concerned about damaging carbon forks if the bike is being tossed around by others.

You really might consider the all-aluminum NT, in LARGE, without shocks. The aluminum frame is strong, durable, and doesn't rust. I live by the ocean so that's a huge plus.


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

I'm 5'11 and run the medium aluminum frame.. i think the large would have been too big


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

frantik! said:


> I'm 5'11 and run the medium aluminum frame.. i think the large would have been too big


I just measured myself this morning. I'm actually 6'1", not 6' ... so that might be a factor


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Hi guys, are the Nighttrain headset bearings serviceable (that is, can I clean and regrease them)?

Is it a straightforward disassembly/reassembly, or are there any tips or tricks you guys have learned?

Thanks in advance.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

fatfart said:


> Ready to pull the trigger on the ti Night Train w/Bluto forks. Does it have a lock out for fork? Not a fan of suspension forks but think my aging body will like them better.
> 
> I have owned two large Diamondback EL Oso de Acero fat bike and test drove many fat bikes and always felt the large (5'11") was more comfortable. BD and this forum recommended medium. Is my toe going to hit or rub on front tire in tight turns with the shorter frame? Don't want that! And I don't want to feel cramped on the bike either.
> 
> ...


I am 5'11" and 210# and bought the large. I'm glad I did. I bought the medium in Al for my wife and it is way too small for me. No problems with my feet hitting the tire on tight turns, ever. The fork has a lockout on it but I only use it on the road. Otherwise it's been trouble free for about 3.5 years now and I ride it often.

The bike will handle heavy weight, I bike pack with mine and have had 45 pounds on it with no problems, and I've had it loaded down and towed a trailer with another 75 pounds in it.

The hub will make noise, it's a standard hub. I don't notice it anymore.

I have bashed my bike to no end and it just takes what I dish out. It was even pitched 5' off a bridge onto some rocks within the first year I owned it (don't ask) and suffered only handlebar rash.

I ride the beach here often and love that the bike is corrosion proof, but the components are not. Sand will get into everything and abrade chain like there is no tomorrow, I recommend a paraffin wax for lube rather than something to which the sand will stick.

I could not be happier with mine and am very glad I bought it in Titanium. I looked around for a long time at other Ti bikes but could not afford them, not even close. This is built well and I know it'll last a long time. It's already past the warranty period my Pugsley had and I like that it has another 95.5 years left on the 99 year warranty.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Dilligaff said:


> I am 5'11" and 210# and bought the large. I'm glad I did. I bought the medium in Al for my wife and it is way too small for me. No problems with my feet hitting the tire on tight turns, ever. The fork has a lockout on it but I only use it on the road. Otherwise it's been trouble free for about 3.5 years now and I ride it often.
> 
> The bike will handle heavy weight, I bike pack with mine and have had 45 pounds on it with no problems, and I've had it loaded down and towed a trailer with another 75 pounds in it.
> 
> ...


I live at the beach and agree that lubed chain + sand isn't good. I too have used paraffin forever. I use a mix of paraffin, bees wax, Teflon powder, and molybdenum powder. I think a little bees wax really helps the concoction to stick.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

Cycloid said:


> Hi guys, are the Nighttrain headset bearings serviceable (that is, can I clean and regrease them)?
> 
> Is it a straightforward disassembly/reassembly, or are there any tips or tricks you guys have learned?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


They are sealed. I just clean around them and put grease over them as a barrier.

I guess you could spray them out with mineral spirits and regrease.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

HerrKaLeun said:


> They are sealed. I just clean around them and put grease over them as a barrier.
> 
> I guess you could spray them out with mineral spirits and regrease.


Thanks for your reply 

Is it a simple and obvious affair to take apart and reassemble the headset? I'm mechanically competent and haven't had problems maintaining any other parts of the bike. (I only ask because I don't want to get into the headset for the first time, screw up, and then have my bike out of commission for a bit.)

Also, do the sealed bearings come out and go back in easily, or are they wedged in there like hub bearings?


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

are your headset bearings messed up from sand? i have never had to service my headset bearings on a sealed bearing headset


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

frantik! said:


> are your headset bearings messed up from sand? i have never had to service my headset bearings on a sealed bearing headset


No, they are not. And I have no indication the bearings are contaminated or compromised.

I have just finished giving the rest of the bike a thorough maintenance, so I was considering giving the headset a peek. But from what you are saying, that is probably not necessary ... which is fine by me!


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

frantik! said:


> are your headset bearings messed up from sand? i have never had to service my headset bearings on a sealed bearing headset


frantik!, I have another question, this one about how tight the headset bolt should be (before the bars are clamped down). If I press the front brake to lock the front wheel, and push the bike forward and back a bit, while holding my thumb and index finger at the interface between the head tube and the top race, should I feel a very slight forward/aft play?

Put another way, how do you know how much to tighten the headset bolt?


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

Cycloid said:


> should I feel a very slight forward/aft play?
> 
> Put another way, how do you know how much to tighten the headset bolt?


no, you should not feel any play. tighten the bolt to just the point where the play goes away completely. the headset should spin freely with no resistance. then clamp down the stem

and yeah leave those headset bearings alone if you aren't having problems!


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

Cycloid said:


> Thanks for your reply
> 
> Is it a simple and obvious affair to take apart and reassemble the headset? I'm mechanically competent and haven't had problems maintaining any other parts of the bike. (I only ask because I don't want to get into the headset for the first time, screw up, and then have my bike out of commission for a bit.)
> 
> Also, do the sealed bearings come out and go back in easily, or are they wedged in there like hub bearings?


Bearings move freely once you lower the fork.

What you fear are the races that get pressed into the head tube, but I don't even think there are any with this type of headset. It is some sort integrated headset. But I'm no expert in this....


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Awesome. Thank you frantik! and HerrKaLeun


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## fatfart (Nov 22, 2017)

Ordered the Ti NIghtTrain Carbon forks Large. I assume it doesn’t come with pedals, right? If so then all I need is peddles and it will be ready to ride after assembly? 

I rode several 20” Specialized and a Salsa Mukluk fat bikes with and without suspension forks. Hated the suspension forks. The Mukluk was on sale and discounted due to heavy scratches from a demo event it was sent too. After seeing the light damage from the event, carbon is not for me. 

If the Ti NT has similar geometry at the Mukluk and Specialized l, I will be a happy camper. Looking forward to riding on the frozen Yukon River unless it’s already melted in Galena, AK.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

fatfart said:


> Ordered the Ti NIghtTrain Carbon forks Large. I assume it doesn't come with peddles, right? If so then all I need is peddles and it will be ready to ride after assembly?
> 
> I rode several 20" Specialized and a Salsa Mukluk fat bikes with and without suspension forks. Hated the suspension forks. The Mukluk was on sale and discounted due to heavy scratches from a demo event it was sent too. After seeing the light damage from the event, carbon is not for me.
> 
> If the Ti NT has similar geometry at the Mukluk and Specialized l, I will be a happy camper. Looking forward to riding on the frozen Yukon River unless it's already melted in Galena, AK.


Nice! I'm sure you will be a happy camper.

And correct, no pedals. You didn't ask, but here, I am very happy with these. Relatively inexpensive, durable, and super easy to maintain.

https://www.universalcycles.com/sho...MI1IXBsvO84QIVDvbjBx1KYgWaEAkYBCABEgL01fD_BwE


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

fatfart said:


> Ready to pull the trigger on the ti Night Train w/Bluto forks. Does it have a lock out for fork? Not a fan of suspension forks but think my aging body will like them better.
> 
> I have owned two large Diamondback EL Oso de Acero fat bike and test drove many fat bikes and always felt the large (5'11") was more comfortable. BD and this forum recommended medium. Is my toe going to hit or rub on front tire in tight turns with the shorter frame? Don't want that! And I don't want to feel cramped on the bike either.
> 
> ...


For whatever it's worth, getting the Bluto with the bike is the cheapest way to get the Bluto. I bought mine in 2015. It lasted a year through tons of mud, salt, grit, submersion, sand, silt... before it needed new seals. The guy at the shop laughed. He's like "Man, you are overdue!" It has been good since (although it might be getting to rebuild time again). The fork does have a lockout. Mine benefited greatly from using a few Bottomless Tokens. The newer forks might have an improved damper in them, too.

I completely sealed up all the bearings with grease, and have actually popped the seal covers off the crank bearings to get more grease in there. Check back in this thread for all of my posts.

The bike is overbuilt for sure. I have carried camping gear and even jumped water bars 2 or 3 times fully loaded.

If you are going Ti, the only vulnerable spot is the bearings. If you address that with some grease and yearly maintenance, it will last a long time.

I'm 6'-3" and ride a large (I am at the upper end, but not quite an XL). 5'-11" on a medium sounds about right.

-F


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## AWDBOB (Mar 8, 2016)

Just converted to tubeless and saved over 4lbs! It seriously feels like a new bike. The rolling resistance on the stock tires was insane compared to that of the JJs.

Setup:

-Stock Sun Rim Setup
-26x4 Jumbo Jims (SnakeSkin)
-Sun Rim Tape
-Stans Valves/Fluid

Before:

Untitled by Bobbie Morrone, on Flickr

After:

Untitled by Bobbie Morrone, on Flickr

Front weight after tubeless (same savings as above):

Untitled by Bobbie Morrone, on Flickr

Untitled by Bobbie Morrone, on Flickr


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

Nice! I never even rode the stock minions, they had such bad reviews and were so heavy I pulled them off right away. Losing rolling weight is the best kind. I'm still running light tubes but can lose another pound or so once I decide to go tubeless, which I finally decided I want to do after getting my first flat and realizing fixing a fat tire flat away from home sucks


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

frantik! said:


> Nice! I never even rode the stock minions, they had such bad reviews and were so heavy I pulled them off right away. Losing rolling weight is the best kind. I'm still running light tubes but can lose another pound or so once I decide to go tubeless, which I finally decided I want to do after getting my first flat and realizing fixing a fat tire flat away from home sucks


Okay, your comment is perfectly timed. I have a decision to make ...

I just received my second NightTrain (22sp, non-Bluto), and it came stock with Minions (the non-tubeless-compatible version). As to the first NT, let's just say user error ... compromised frame... etc., etc., ... and leave it at that.

I went through several sets of tires on my previous NightTrain, all of which I ran tubeless, and without a single flat ever. And that was over 10K miles with 1,000,000 feet of climbing on Pacific Northwest logging roads, which use sharp, angular andesite breccia. So, yay tubeless!

Here is my decision I'm grappling with.

I have an almost new set of Minions (the tubeless version) on my old NT's well-used wheels.

1) Should I just wear out the stock Minions (with tubes) that came with my new bike first, and then put on the almost new Minions (tubeless) later?

or ...

2) Just slap on the tubeless Minions now and donate the with-tubes Minions to science?

I don't really care about rolling resistance. (Are the two versions of Minions even that different with respect to rolling resistance anyway?)

All I am concerned about is getting a flat up the mountains miles from home. I am hard-pressed to imagine changing or fixing a flat out in the sticks; it's hard enough at home.

So ... can I just wear out the stock Minion tires with tubes, and carry a bottle of OrangeSeal in case a tube goes flat, just so I can limp home and deal with the problem there? Does that work in tubes as an emergency fix?

And if I go tubeless, should I be carrying a tube? I'm not even sure what I'd do with it if I got a flat anyway?

Any sage advice would be most appreciated.

Added note: Are Bacon tubeless tire repair kits a good option to carrying a spare tube?


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

I love my Minions and have a boatload of trouble free miles on them. A few friends run them as well since they’re known as being pretty much bombproof.  I also do not find them slow. A friend went from Jumbo Jims to Minions once he passed his 10th flat on the JJ’s. In 2 years he’s yet to get a flat on the Minions. They also hook up much better than the JJ’s for everything but dry hardpack. 

I only run tubeless but do bring a plug kit and spare tube, just in case. I have not needed the tube but have needed the plug kit on a sidewall puncture the sealant wouldn’t fix.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Dilligaff said:


> I love my Minions and have a boatload of trouble free miles on them. A few friends run them as well since they're known as being pretty much bombproof. I also do not find them slow. A friend went from Jumbo Jims to Minions once he passed his 10th flat on the JJ's. In 2 years he's yet to get a flat on the Minions. They also hook up much better than the JJ's for everything but dry hardpack.
> 
> I only run tubeless but do bring a plug kit and spare tube, just in case. I have not needed the tube but have needed the plug kit on a sidewall puncture the sealant wouldn't fix.


Yeah, I don't know why people say Minions have high rolling resistance. I've found the opposite to be true.

1) Would you ride and wear out the stock with-tubes Minions before switching back to tubeless?

2) If you did, would you carry sealant as an emergency fix in the field of a puncture just to get home? Does sealant applied in the field into a tube work?

3) What plug kit do you use?

Thanks in advance


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

Cycloid said:


> Yeah, I don't know why people say Minions have high rolling resistance. I've found the opposite to be true.
> 
> 1) Would you ride and wear out the stock with-tubes Minions before switching back to tubeless?
> 
> ...


carry with me on my tubeless fat bike:
- a spare tube
- 2oz of sealant in case the one in the tire runs out (i refill that every 3 months, though)
- this plug kit
- this patch kit

So I could deal with quite some tire damage. I only had one noticeable leak last winter. the rear pressure dropped (I noticed bobbing when pedaling). i just pumped it back up and it was good. I never investigated what it was, but didn't happen again. So the sealant in the tire worked. It sure was more fun at 0°F to just use the pump instead of taking out a tube, patching, re-installing and pumping back up again hoping everything is OK.

I have the Maxxis tubeless Minions, BTW.

You may try to sell the tubed tires and tubes?


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Awesome! Thanks for your input


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

QUESTION:

My NightTrain frame has a crossbar between the chainstays, and this crossbar has three holes -- I presume to mount a fender.

Being low and right next to the rear wheel, these holes seem prime for letting water and other nasties get into the frame. Is it okay to tape these over with electrical tape?


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## fatfart (Nov 22, 2017)

Got my NT Ti SL and I am more that pleases with it. I like the large 19” frame for my 5’11” height and for my riding style. But can see why Bikes Direct recommends a medium for my size. I just like the feel of a longer frame. 

The front brake rotor has a very sight warp to it and I broke the C-clip on the top cross bolt of disk brake. Didn’t realize I had to remove c-clip before unscrewing the bolt that holds the plastic brake pad divider. (My fault). I will remove the rotor and see if it’s the rotor or the hub mounting surface that is causing the warp. 

Assembly was fairly easy except for the handlebar clamp bolts. You have to be very careful not to cross thread the bolts. It could be done very easy if you were in a hurry. The directions that comes with the bike were no help to me but with it mostly assembled, there is no need for them. YouTube is way more helpful. 

It was getting dark so I couldn’t ride for very long, just a quick ride around the block. I am quite pleased with the geometry and ride so far. It is a very light bike compared to my steel Diamondback bike I had last year.

My only complaint so far could be that I now need a heavy, $$, quality bike lock where a cheap, lightweight, bike lock worked fine with my lower cost Diamondback bike. The biggest surprise and a bonus too me is the hub clicker is not annoying loud. I could hardly hear the clicking over the hum of the tyres. I may not need to upgrade to an Onyx silent hub.


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

Congratulations! Yeah, judging by you previous post I figured you'd be happy with the LARGE, and that was what I recommended, so I'm glad it worked out well.

You are absolutely correct about the handlebar clamp bolts being easy to cross-thread. Also, all of the stem's bolts are easy to strip -- well, it's the stem that strips -- if you overtighten just a bit. Don't ask me how I know. I know :-(

I had a good laugh about you lock predicament. We are our own worst enemy  

Just get a super duper nice lock. Maybe they'll steal that instead.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

Do any of you folks who have blown up the Novatec d202sb hubs or moved on to other hubs still have the 197mm spaced axle/endcap? I bought a set on ebay from a guy that said 190 or 197 but only came with the 190TA setup. I need 197TA setup. Bdop doesn't carry that size. I think I found one on Alixpress. Novatec USA doesn't stock it and sent me on to Bike Fettish. I'm guessing it'll be a rip off $100+ based on what they tried to sell the XD driver for.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Cerpss said:


> Do any of you folks who have blown up the Novatec d202sb hubs or moved on to other hubs still have the 197mm spaced axle/endcap? I bought a set on ebay from a guy that said 190 or 197 but only came with the 190TA setup. I need 197TA setup. Bdop doesn't carry that size. I think I found one on Alixpress. Novatec USA doesn't stock it and sent me on to Bike Fettish. I'm guessing it'll be a rip off $100+ based on what they tried to sell the XD driver for.


pm sent.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

watermonkey said:


> pm sent.


I sent you a pm with my shipping info. Not sure if you were busy with the holiday or just forgot.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Can someone explain if an XD freehub body is available for the Novatec hub that shipped with the 10-speed shimano cassette?

I would think that they are available, but I can’t seem to figure out the right part number.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Can someone explain if an XD freehub body is available for the Novatec hub that shipped with the 10-speed shimano cassette?
> 
> I would think that they are available, but I can't seem to figure out the right part number.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not positive, but...
https://www.amazon.com/Novatec-Sram...ocphy=9015294&hvtargid=pla-568628868627&psc=1

-F


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Is the novatec freehub body on amazon this one?


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

It appears the amazon one is the correct one. If you look at the chart on Bdop cyling it shows the XD driver for the D202sB to be the same as the ones that the amazon listing calls out (D712SB D772SB D482SB D882SB).

I bought from Bdop and it was quick and painless. I actually got my xd driver from China before I got parts I ordered from Jenson in CA. I live in Minnesota https://www.bdopcycling.com/Wheel Parts-XD-DRIVER.asp


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Cerpss said:


> It appears the amazon one is the correct one. If you look at the chart on Bdop cyling it shows the XD driver for the D202sB to be the same as the ones that the amazon listing calls out (D712SB D772SB D482SB D882SB).


Am I right in thinking that with that XD freehub body, an Eagle GX cassette can be installed on my Novatec hub?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Am I right in thinking that with that XD freehub body, an Eagle GX cassette can be installed on my Novatec hub?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


YES. if it's an XD driver it can take the Eagle GX cassette


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

FWIW:
[URL]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/29d7e6f28444be6bb714f36bed9183f2.jpg[/URL]

[URL]https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072XJ2X69?ref_=pe_623860_70668690_dpLink[/URL]


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

Took the night train for a nice ride today.. love the grip even with "slicks"


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## Hytek369 (Jun 23, 2015)

Anyone use fenders on this bike? If so, what do you use?
This custom one seems great -


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I use the beaver guard ones. They fit and look great.

https://beaverguardfatbike.com/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

I'm very happy with the SKS Fatboards.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

*Internal Cable Plugs Tough to Remove*

After 3 years of [ab]use, the ol' Sturgis is due for some TLC. The screws in the frame plugs are really stuck. I rounded them out after letting them sit with Blaster on them for 24 hrs. I will be slotting them with the mini wheel next. Forgot to grease/anti-seize when new. 
:bluefrown:








-F


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

After going tubeless with Vee Speedsters 26x3.5 she's weighing in at ~28.6lbs / 13kg with pedals and bottle cages. I've also swapped in carbon bars and seat post. This is on the 17 inch night train express. I'm planning on a new wheelset and a lighter cassette, should lose another pound or so.. would be awesome to get into the 26 pound range but that might be pushing it without some carbon rims

I used clear Gorilla tape to go tubeless.. I don't think it was the best choice but it worked. I had a lot of leaks near the rim strip at first, but the sealant finally closed it all up after an hour or two. If you are going to go tubeless, make sure your rim strip is perfectly centered, even maybe trim it a bit so the adhesive has the most change to adhere to the rim to make an air tight seal


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

*Yin and Yang*

I thought something was up with the old Sturgis, and I wanted better wheels, so I found a deal for what was supposed to be a blem. It had no blem, but I still got the deal.
The white bike is the old one. The black bike is the new one. I have this fondness for the camo vinyl graphics, so the black bike, despite very nice matte black paint got the treatment in "Harvest Moon" camo.
I still don't like 1x12, so that, and the heavy tires went to the old Sturgis, which, upon further review, wheelbase measuring, and head angle measuring, was found to have no issues whatsoever. So I have 2 pretty nice fatbikes right now. Soon to be 1.

Old (~34#)







And I must admit, those Minions _look_ awesome (and they ride pretty nice, too). I really like the Kinesis rigid fork.

New (~31.5#)







With 4.0 "Summer" tires. The Carver rigid carbon fork is my add. There's a Bluto in the closet, too.

-F


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

frantik! said:


> I used clear Gorilla tape to go tubeless.. I don't think it was the best choice but it worked. I had a lot of leaks near the rim strip at first, but the sealant finally closed it all up after an hour or two. If you are going to go tubeless, make sure your rim strip is perfectly centered, even maybe trim it a bit so the adhesive has the most change to adhere to the rim to make an air tight seal


So the clear gorilla tape held for a ride but after a week of sitting it stopped holding air completely. It might have worked if i put the tape all the way to the edge of the rim (vs the edge of the bead) but forget clear gorilla tape! *Just get the Sun Ringle rim tape which is made specifically for the Mulefut rim.* It's the exact right size and super easy to apply. When I set up the tires there was no problems with leaking, the rear didn't even have a drop of sealant leak out when I pumped it up!

The clear gorilla tape leaves a nasty residue which is not easy to clean with rubbing alcohol or nail polish remover. I cleaned it as well as possible and just wrapped the OEM Sun Ringle tape and it worked like a charm


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

Fleas said:


> View attachment 1252126
> 
> 
> View attachment 1252125
> ...


I like those wraps on there.. giving me ideas..


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## Cycloid (Apr 11, 2016)

frantik! said:


> So the clear gorilla tape held for a ride but after a week of sitting it stopped holding air completely. It might have worked if i put the tape all the way to the edge of the rim (vs the edge of the bead) but forget clear gorilla tape! *Just get the Sun Ringle rim tape which is made specifically for the Mulefut rim.* It's the exact right size and super easy to apply. When I set up the tires there was no problems with leaking, the rear didn't even have a drop of sealant leak out when I pumped it up!
> 
> The clear gorilla tape leaves a nasty residue which is not easy to clean with rubbing alcohol or nail polish remover. I cleaned it as well as possible and just wrapped the OEM Sun Ringle tape and it worked like a charm


Indeed. Going ghetto only saves you money if your time and soul are worth zero.


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

Cycloid said:


> Indeed. Going ghetto only saves you money if your time and soul are worth zero.


I didn't even know it was ghetto, I thought using gorilla tape was the way people did it until I found out about the OEM tape. It works sooo much better it's ridiculous.

edit.. STILL one of the tires is leaking bad.. Idk if it was due to the gorilla tape reside or what but i'm getting a little tired of messing with these rims/tires!


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

*Add suspension fork*

I've been searchin with no luck.

Does the Manitou Mastodon fit a Sturgis L-frame? especially the adjustment knob seems to hit downtubes on some bikes.

Kind of related, did people convert this bike to a summer hardtail with 29+ by just using a rigid fork, or is a front suspension needed when going to smaller tires?

I have that possible plan to get a suspension fork an din the future maybe 29+ wheels. but the issue is, that would cost as much as buying an entry level 29+ hardtail (inc. other components). So I'm questioning my plan to use the Sturgis as a hardtail and wonder if I just leave it as is and plan on buying a dedicated summer bike? I don't have experience with suspension and geometry, but know the Sturgis is relatively steep (70° HTA etc.). it is a good rigid fatbike, but is it a good hardtail?


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

I have a Sturgis L with a Mastodon 100 EXT and there is no issue with knob clearance.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

HerrKaLeun said:


> I've been searchin with no luck.
> 
> Does the Manitou Mastodon fit a Sturgis L-frame? especially the adjustment knob seems to hit downtubes on some bikes.
> 
> ...


Mine has worked out well with 26x4.8, 26x4.0, and 29x3. I have had all three set-ups on the Carver Popeye rigid carbon fork (~490mm ATC) as well as a 120mm Bluto. I think it handles a bit better with the Bluto (seems to have a bit more rake and slacker head angle), but after an hour on the rigid fork I forget what the difference even was.

-F


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

Blaster182 said:


> I have a Sturgis L with a Mastodon 100 EXT and there is no issue with knob clearance.


Thanks. Good to know this is an option. my research says the Mastadone is the really good fat fork, especially for winter and I decided that or none.

Ironically Bikesdirect sells a whole frame, headset and Bluto for just a tad more than the Mastadone.



Fleas said:


> Mine has worked out well with 26x4.8, 26x4.0, and 29x3. I have had all three set-ups on the Carver Popeye rigid carbon fork (~490mm ATC) as well as a 120mm Bluto. I think it handles a bit better with the Bluto (seems to have a bit more rake and slacker head angle), but after an hour on the rigid fork I forget what the difference even was.
> 
> -B


So you don't think it makes much of a difference, even with the 3" tires? Mmmh. i'm not riding fast, nor do I do crazy drops and other things. i just feel os nome faster descents and some rough terrain I get some bouncing that i try to heal with the suspension fork.

Knowing what you know now, would you buy a suspension fork at all?


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## oobaa47 (Sep 14, 2016)

Sorry if this was discussed elsewhere, but I purchased a motobecane night train express a few years ago with 26x4.8's on it. Has anyone tried converting to a 27.5+? What rim/tire combo's have you tried out in 27.5? How did it effect the geometry/handling and did you have to make any other changes, or just the wheels? I was looking to make it a little more nimble but still retain the monster truck feel of it, so I was thinking a 27.5+ might accomplish this. Thanks for your input...


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## humptybump (Sep 17, 2015)

Dilligaff said:


> I made the switch from Wrathchilds to Johnny5's for winter and WOW are they massive. They are the largest tire that will fit the frame, no question. They're even larger than my Bud/FBR combo I use for summer. So far they're awesome and I am very impressed.


How did your Johnny 5's play out as time went on? Did they still fit after a month or two (any stretching)? It sounds like they started out pretty close to the limit of what the frame can accept.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

HerrKaLeun said:


> ...
> 
> So you don't think it makes much of a difference, even with the 3" tires? Mmmh. i'm not riding fast, nor do I do crazy drops and other things. i just feel os nome faster descents and some rough terrain I get some bouncing that i try to heal with the suspension fork.
> 
> Knowing what you know now, would you buy a suspension fork at all?


Outer tire diameter is pretty close between 29+ and 26 fat.

As far as suspension forks, you're asking the wrong guy. I ride rigid 99.9% of the time. I bought the Sturgis with the Bluto only because it was the cheapest way to get a Bluto. It has been leaning against the wall in my basement all year.

Even on my local trails, there is only one spot out of about 75 miles of singletrack where the Bluto really makes a difference for how I ride.

-F


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

humptybump said:


> How did your Johnny 5's play out as time went on? Did they still fit after a month or two (any stretching)? It sounds like they started out pretty close to the limit of what the frame can accept.


I did not notice a whole lot of stretch. They still fit and I was still riding them at the end of the season. I can't wait to toss them back on for this winter.


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## benoksanen (Aug 3, 2005)

Just ordered a Night Train Bullet, and plan to setup tubeless right off the bat. I am ordering the 78mm stans tape and have plenty of stans sealant. My question: do I need to order a rim strip for under the tape, or will that come with the bike? I've read so many things, but I can't find this advice quickly. Thanks! I'll report back.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

benoksanen said:


> Just ordered a Night Train Bullet, and plan to setup tubeless right off the bat. I am ordering the 78mm stans tape and have plenty of stans sealant. My question: do I need to order a rim strip for under the tape, or will that come with the bike? I've read so many things, but I can't find this advice quickly. Thanks! I'll report back.


When I got mine in 2015 they came with black installed and red in the box (flourescent green bike). Not sure what they come with these days


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Both ours came with 2 sets of rim tape as well, but it's very easy to find locally since the Mulefut is the most common wheel.


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## humptybump (Sep 17, 2015)

Dilligaff said:


> I did not notice a whole lot of stretch. They still fit and I was still riding them at the end of the season. I can't wait to toss them back on for this winter.


Initial fitment of Johnny 5 studded on my Night Train with the stock Mulefuts shows promise, sufficient clearance all round including chain at 15psi. I'm cautiously optimistic that even after the tire stretches, clearance will be just fine (normal operating pressure is 2psi-8psi depending on conditions which should help). This looks like about as much tire as this frame can realistically accommodate. Interestingly the tightest part of the fit is just getting the front wheel on the bike when the tire is pre-inflated, due to the size of the Hope Tech 3 e4 brake caliper that is on it - I had to put the wheel on at an angle for the tire to clear the caliper.


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Any size small frames for sale out there?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

bcriverjunky said:


> Any size small frames for sale out there?


I have a size small gen 1 I'm looking to part with. Pm me. It has the bluto.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

Anybody have a lead on cheap replacement axles? Mine broke the other day. I see they have them on the site, but they're a lot more than I'm willing to pay for something that won't stay tight and broke this early on.
If not I'll probably get one of the bolt ons from Robert axle project. 

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> Anybody have a lead on cheap replacement axles? Mine broke the other day. I see they have them on the site, but they're a lot more than I'm willing to pay for something that won't stay tight and broke this early on.
> If not I'll probably get one of the bolt ons from Robert axle project.
> 
> Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk


I snapped the lever off somehow while riding and went with the factory replacement. It was fine, but it was different from the original.

Should I even ask how you broke yours?

-F


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## robc in wi (Sep 6, 2008)

In case you are still looking I have a 2016 small (pewter with black carbon fork) with minimal use. Probably about 10 snow rides and maybe that many trail rides. Maybe 150 miles total. Bought a medium cs-197 carbon and swapped parts so this one is sitting in the basement. Pm me if you are interested.


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

robc in wi said:


> In case you are still looking I have a 2016 small (pewter with black carbon fork) with minimal use. Probably about 10 snow rides and maybe that many trail rides. Maybe 150 miles total. Bought a medium cs-197 carbon and swapped parts so this one is sitting in the basement. Pm me if you are interested.


PM sent.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

I am sure this information is somewhere in this thread but I am having a hard time finding it. What is the end cap that comes on the D201SB front Novatec Hub? I put the original wheels back on my NTB w/ Bluto and the rear fit fine, but the front does not fit (it is much too narrow. Obviously it can't have come like this as the end caps don't fill up the entire fork drop out.

I am going to look in the parts bin, but I am not sure why I changed them out in the first place - it's lost in my memory. Thanks!


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

A little spam for you guys: Selling my size small NTB w/ Bluto and some other goodies. https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2684520/


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Any experience with Velofrezer CNC hangers? Made from 2024 t4 aluminum which is stronger and more bendable the 6160. https://velofrezer.com/about-our-production


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

bcriverjunky said:


> Any experience with Velofrezer CNC hangers? Made from 2024 t4 aluminum which is stronger and more bendable the 6160. https://velofrezer.com/about-our-production


Shipping took about three weeks but these are little works of art. $50 for two.


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Cannondale cranks on my Sturgis. OneUp Switch spider 0 offset with a 28t oval ring. Q-Factor is 206mm.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Yeah, I just checked them out and it's $51.75 for two, shipped to the US. That includes a 10% discount for buying more than one. I tried ordering using PayPal, but never got the PayPal login screen, so I'm not sure what's going on. I'll update this post once I know more.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

UPDATE: I received an email confirming the order, then a second one with his PayPal.me link. It all looks fine, so we'll see when they arrive.


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Bnystrom said:


> UPDATE: I received an email confirming the order, then a second one with his PayPal.me link. It all looks fine, so we'll see when they arrive.


The tracking works and they travel through a lot of different cities. Quite interesting.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

The derailleur hangers from Velofrezer arrived today and it's obvious that he takes pride in his work. I'll install one today, so I don't have to worry about the cast junk that's on there now.










UPDATE: I installed one of these and here's what I found:


I cleaned a bit of paint and some other crud off the dropout and the new hanger installed easily. 


The threads are more precisely cut than those in the stock hangers (less play in them), so the alignment needs to be more precise, too. I'm getting some friction when installing/removing the thru-axle, but that will probably improve over time. 


I put a derailleur alignment gauge on the hanger and it was perfect top-to-bottom, but out by ~4mm front-to-back. I suspect that the dropout is misaligned slightly, which would account for the friction in the threads, too. Unfortunately, I don't have dropout alignment tools that will work with this frame. Regardless, it was easy to align the hanger perfectly and the shifting is flawless. 

We'll see how it works in the field.


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## Mr. Long (Nov 17, 2016)

Does anyone have a source for the rear caliper mounting bracket? Bikesdirect said they could not provide one and told me to search the web.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

If you're using a 160mm rotor, the caliper mounts directly to the posts on the frame. Larger rotors require a spacer block. Is that what you need?

Are you working with the caliper that came on the bike or something else? If you're trying to put a flat-mount caliper on a post-mount frame, you'll need something like this: https://www.assolutions.ca/flat-mount-caliper-to-post-mount-adapter-guide/


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## Mr. Long (Nov 17, 2016)

*Spacer block*

My Night Train came with Guide brakes and spacer blocks for 180mm rotors. I'm looking for another rear spacer block for a project. I don't know how to post pictures to this forum.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Avid brakes are really common. If you have a shop near you, take the spacer block you have and see if they can match it. Otherwise, do a search for "Avid Guide spacer block" and see if you can match it to anything you find. Pay particular attention to any markings for sizes and such on the block.


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## Mr. Long (Nov 17, 2016)

Thank you! I will start digging.


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Mr. Long said:


> My Night Train came with Guide brakes and spacer blocks for 180mm rotors. I'm looking for another rear spacer block for a project. I don't know how to post pictures to this forum.


Is this what you are looking for? https://www.nashbar.com/avid-post-bracket-20p-f180-r160-cps-and-standard-00.5318.007.004/p442333


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## Mr. Long (Nov 17, 2016)

Ha! That's exactly what I was trying to find. I ended up just ordering a spacer kit that uses individual spacers. Thanks!


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Mr. Long said:


> Ha! That's exactly what I was trying to find. I ended up just ordering a spacer kit that uses individual spacers. Thanks!


They're called brake adapters.


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

I'm going to get the Night Train. Looks like I have to pre-order. Do they ever ship earlier than expected? With the covid stuff, does anyone know if shipments will be delayed or does BD still expect to ship on time?


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

Why not contact them directly and inquire with any questions?


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## Mr. Long (Nov 17, 2016)

What he said. In this climate, don't expect anything to ship early. It took a month to get my wife's bike frame from China. They had to route it all over the place to avoid restrictions. Order it and distract yourself with something else until it gets here. Haha


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

I did. Still waiting on an answer.


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## oobaa47 (Sep 14, 2016)

I found an extra motobecane night train Express derailleur hanger in my toolbox. If anyone is interested, please let me know. I have no idea if they're very common, or extremely difficult to acquire. 15 bucks with free shipping sounds fair. Thanks. Will post pictures when I have a chance....


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Hangers are - or at least were - available from BD. The problem is that the cast, factory hangers are crap. The newer (silver) ones are just slightly less crappy than the older (black) ones. That's why people are resorting to ordering machined hangers from companies in Israel and Russia.


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## Hafizzzz (Sep 10, 2020)

oobaa47 said:


> I found an extra motobecane night train Express derailleur hanger in my toolbox. If anyone is interested, please let me know. I have no idea if they're very common, or extremely difficult to acquire. 15 bucks with free shipping sounds fair. Thanks. Will post pictures when I have a chance....


heyy just busted my motobecane NTB hanger.. Locally no one seems to be selling it. Im really interested in ur extra hanger. Anyone with any info where i can get them online, do share some links ya.. Ride safe all :thumbsup:


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## Hafizzzz (Sep 10, 2020)

bcriverjunky said:


> Shipping took about three weeks but these are little works of art. $50 for two.


heyy man.. mind sharing the part number? theres 2 types that looks very similar. thanks in advance


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## Mr. Long (Nov 17, 2016)

This might work:

https://derailleurhanger.com/product/derailleur-hanger-416/


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

Hope they are not as soft as the original ones. I had mis-shifting due to slightly bent hanger. Even had my chain get stuck between cassette and spokes. It was hard to straighten since it is so soft and overshoots to the other side easily. 
Also the spare hanger that came with my Sturgis wasn't straight (but workable). I figured at $50, I almost could buy a new frame (and did buy a Mayor - that has a solid slider that holds the RD, nothing soft!)). Since then the hanger design is a major decision factor for me for buying a new bike. Not sure if that SRAM universal hanger makes headwind on new bikes, at least it is cheaper.


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Hafizzzz said:


> heyy man.. mind sharing the part number? theres 2 types that looks very similar. thanks in advance


https://velofrezer.com/derailleur-hangers/all-models/h284


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## rocwandrer (Oct 19, 2008)

*Can anybody summarize the weak points of the NT Bullet Pro?*

TL;DR: What are the problem areas or low spec parts that give trouble on the 2020/2021 models? Anybody have any trouble with anything?

After 11 years on my homebuilt fat bike, it needs a lot of work and I sidestepped feeling bad about not working on it while not winter riding by buying a Night Train Bullet Pro (the only bike I could quickly find left in stock that appears to clear 5" tires).

I've spent some time in this thread and it looks like there used to be a bunch of problem areas like rear derailleur hangers, rear hubs, and stem threads, but those have been mostly resolved. I'm sitting on parts for a spare rear wheel build just in case.


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## Dilligaff (Nov 19, 2015)

Bnystrom said:


> The derailleur hangers from Velofrezer arrived today and it's obvious that he takes pride in his work. I'll install one today, so I don't have to worry about the cast junk that's on there now.





Bnystrom said:


> UPDATE: I installed one of these and here's what I found:
> 
> 
> I cleaned a bit of paint and some other crud off the dropout and the new hanger installed easily.
> ...





I have a set of these I just got in that I'd sell for $50 (including shipping). I ordered them and then realized that my Titanium Night Train takes a different hanger completely than the non-Ti Night Train. While it's only about a $10 savings, it will save the 30 days it takes to get them from Russia.


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## cere8 (Sep 19, 2015)

Does anyone know what tires fit 27.5 80 mm rims and medium frame that would work in the rear? Curious if anyone has tried. Specifically looking at dillinger 5, 4 or gnarwhal 4.5. NOT gnarwhal 3.8. I know that fits.


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

Typically when someone goes to a different wheel size on a frame, they're going _down_ in wheel diameter and installing wider tires to get close to the diameter of the original larger wheels, such going from 29" x 2.4" to 27.5" x 3". Going _up _is unusual and you're not going to be able to fit as large of a tire.


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## bmbird4 (Jul 8, 2017)

cere8 said:


> Does anyone know what tires fit 27.5 80 mm rims and medium frame that would work in the rear? Curious if anyone has tried. Specifically looking at dillinger 5, 4 or gnarwhal 4.5. NOT gnarwhal 3.8. I know that fits.


I have 27.5 x 4.5 gnarwhals on a 65mm wide Nexties, clearance is pretty good. Probably 1/2" or better on each side of chainstays.


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## cere8 (Sep 19, 2015)

I have 2 fat bikes Farley ex 8 with 27.5 rims and Moto with 26 rims and studded tires. I know the max size a Farley can fit and was curious about moto to swap all wheels back and forth.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> Further review after the last ride indicates that my NDS crank bearing has been contaminated. While the "seals" are pretty weak, I'm going to fess up and say that it's probably my own fault that I didn't pack the "seals" with grease to keep water-borne grit from getting in. Riding in the frozen conditions it was of no concern, but in my haste to ride I forgot to get back to it. :madman: My advice is to catch it early. It was literally overnight that the bearing nearly seized up. I'm good at reviving old, abused parts, though, so I got it smoothed out again. ?
> View attachment 989464
> 
> BTW - after this ride, I washed the bike - gently - and still poured out about a 1/4 cup of clean water from the NDS chainstay and bottom bracket. So the frame is not sealed very tight. I may have to address that with the clear silicone (which also addresses cable rub if applied neatly).
> ...





Fleas said:


> Wayyyy back in this thread, ~3 mos. after I got my Sturgis, I noticed the bottom bracket was binding a little. I took it apart and removed the dust covers from the bearings and found rust. I cleaned them, packed them with grease, wiped the inside of the bottom bracket with grease, re-assembled with more grease, and now it is running very well. And it has been ridden completely submerged in creeks and lakes with sand and sediment stirring in the water. I've ridden on slushy, salty roads, muddy farm tracks, and sandy beaches. The grease keeps the junk out.
> BTW - my frame holds probably 8 oz. of water that needs to be drained after really wet rides.
> 
> -F





Fleas said:


> OK, it is once again bottom bracket maintenance time.
> 
> Sometime in the interim, I did pop the seals and add a little Tenacious Oil to the BB bearings, but that was being pretty lazy, so I finally did a complete breakdown, clean, and re-lube this past weekend. Mind you, these bearings are still from 2015. One of the bearings was just about locked up after the World Fatbike Day Ride in the rain last week, so it was time.
> They are nearly like new again.
> ...


So maybe I left these bearings in a little too long. 








The last time I had it apart (in 2018?) I drilled 1/16" holes in the back of the bearing retainer so I could tap out the bearings with a punch. Easy peasy. Riding again in 30 minutes.

-F


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## Bnystrom (Apr 28, 2007)

These frames definitely have issues with allowing water intrusion. I built my fat bike up from a Night train frameset with a Raceface crank and bottom bracket. A couple of months ago, the crank started creaking and when I checked it out, the bearings were pretty rough and the crank would not come out. I ended up having to use a rubber mallet and a chunk of dowel to drive the crank out, and the center of the aluminum spindle was so badly corroded that it pulled the bearing out of the cup. Fortunately, I was able to sand the corrosion off the spindle and get the bearing off. Surprisingly, after cleaning the bearings thoroughly, they were smooth, so I repacked them - with significantly more waterproof grease than they had originally - and reinstalled them for now. I'll eventually replace them and in my case, they're 6806s (for a 30mm spindle).

After removing the corrosion, I coated the spindle with CorrosionX, which should provide a good measure of protection. I also found some corrosion in the seat tube and was able to clean and coat that, too. This probably marks the end of me riding the fattie on the beach, but it will still see plenty of snow and ice...and more frequent BB inspections.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Bnystrom said:


> These frames definitely have issues with allowing water intrusion. I built my fat bike up from a Night train frameset with a Raceface crank and bottom bracket. A couple of months ago, the crank started creaking and when I checked it out, the bearings were pretty rough and the crank would not come out. I ended up having to use a rubber mallet and a chunk of dowel to drive the crank out, and the center of the aluminum spindle was so badly corroded that it pulled the bearing out of the cup. Fortunately, I was able to sand the corrosion off the spindle and get the bearing off. Surprisingly, after cleaning the bearings thoroughly, they were smooth, so I repacked them - with significantly more waterproof grease than they had originally - and reinstalled them for now. I'll eventually replace them and in my case, they're 6806s (for a 30mm spindle).
> 
> After removing the corrosion, I coated the spindle with CorrosionX, which should provide a good measure of protection. I also found some corrosion in the seat tube and was able to clean and coat that, too. This probably marks the end of me riding the fattie on the beach, but it will still see plenty of snow and ice...and more frequent BB inspections.
> 
> View attachment 1922594


I agree. If I end up in a lot of water or rain, my frame will pee about 4oz of water out of each chain stay if I stand it up its rear wheel. I sprayed some WD-40 in my stays, and painted my crank with grease.
Actually heading to the beach next week. 🤞

-F


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> So maybe I left these bearings in a little too long.
> View attachment 1922472
> 
> The last time I had it apart (in 2018?) I drilled 1/16" holes in the back of the bearing retainer so I could tap out the bearings with a punch. Easy peasy. Riding again in 30 minutes.
> ...


The new bearings are the Enduro bearings from Worldwide Cyclery. My 5 days at the beach made them "grindy". I had to pop them back out, completely clean out the grease and sand, and re-pack. While that is not really unusual, it still doesn't speak well of the seals on those bearings. Also, with no grease in them, those bearings had zero preload. Whatever. YMMV

-F


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