# All things Koski



## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

I know there was some discussion on the other threads about starting this so lets see what info we have as a collective. I personally would love to see more pictures of the Pro Cruisers, Steel Trailmasters and possibly a complete photo of a Ti TM confused.

An interesting article to start




























Matts bike from Rim










#19002 (19" #2) from the recent SF show and the info that went along with it (thank Hollister for that photo)


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2013)

Mark, great thread, I hope it generates more pics of those elusive Trailmasters. Loved seeing your bike at SFO. Only thing I own Koski is his fork. It's currently at the platers, so no pics. I do have a pic courtesy of JB.


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## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

Thread thats long overdue.


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Great thread. 
Look forward to more!
That's all I got.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

A 1982 article in Bicycling discusses the Koski contribution and includes a photo of Gary Fisher and Erik Koski riding together. This link is to a scan on the OldMountainBikes site run by Laffeaux.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

*All in Due Time.*

Thanks for starting this...I posted some on Donny and the Pro-Cruiser on the Pro-Cruiser serial # thread because the discussion on the Vintage Swap got a little out of control and went down the wrong path a couple of times so it was closed. DK is at the center of this group. 
Thanks 
P


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

*All Things Koski?*

I love bicycles but Donny has been making something even more fun since the early 70's.
These are very easy to ride...Heck, your grandma could ride one.
Feet up 100' slides!
KOSKI Snow Sports - YouTube


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

Good article CK, thanks for that, it's interesting to read what he has to say about all the bikes. Im surprised no solid photo of the trailmaster....there has to be some good ones out there.

Here is the write up on the TM. I didn't realize they were that much, $1500 was a lot in '82


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

"The Trailmaster uses Aluminum handlebars; these bars absorb more road shock than steel bars"

I always thought Aluminum transmitted more road shock than steel? <<< generally speaking...


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

A couple of more photos from other threads here. Did you put these up PiasRoller?


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Whats the story on the skip tooth drive train? Did they grind off the teeth? Was there a specific reason why they went with that? Strength of the chain maybe?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

sho220 said:


> "The Trailmaster uses Aluminum handlebars; these bars absorb more road shock than steel bars"
> 
> I always thought Aluminum transmitted more road shock than steel? <<< generally speaking...


no, that's bike shop myth. Aluminum, size for size, is softer/less stiff than steel. It's when you get to the large tubing like Cannondale and Klein that things get stiffer.

That said, I actually really liked the feel of the Klein Attitude fork. They're stiffer than your standard 1" to 1/2" tapered steel fork, but compared to a Type II or Yeti fork I'd say they were similar which means they steer and brake well when ridden hard.

Cool thread, MJ. I've always loved the Koski fork and the Trailmaster. You want Pro Cruiser pics?


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

*Two Koski forks from Sonoma County builders*

Nice thread Stan Lee. Here are two Koski forks from Salsa and Ibis. I believe these were fabricated by the respective builders, but I am not sure.

Straight-bladed from Salsa (with PCC sticker on steerer), late 80s









Curve-bladed from Ibis, late 80s


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

I watched a chrome Koski fork go for cheap on ebay and did nothing... i am an idiot.


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## AKamp (Jan 26, 2004)

colker1 said:


> I watched a chrome Koski fork go for cheap on ebay and did nothing... i am an idiot.


Was that a month or so ago, I was really surprised as well. What was it $125ish?


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

Yes, please Dave!! I have a couple of photos but I think they are of bikes that belong to members here so I will let them post if they want to.


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

And let's not forget to link in this thread, one of the most awesome to grace this forum...

30 years riding the same mountain bike


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

nightshade_rider said:


> And let's not forget to link in this thread, one of the most awesome to grace this forum...
> 
> 30 years riding the same mountain bike


Absolutely right, NSR. Wow, thanks so much for remembering that thread. I love that the OP posted up all those pictures too. His "gave up SS in 75" was a cool treat too.


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

Whoa! How did I miss that one the first time around? Thanks for posting NSR- I'm speechless!!

edit: I love the pump on the stay


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

AKamp said:


> Was that a month or so ago, I was really surprised as well. What was it $125ish?


About a year ago.. $80 or something.


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## rockychrysler (Aug 9, 2003)

my retrotec and my ibis both have koski duratrac forks.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Wow, that looks nice. You like how they ride together? I was contemplating a rigid for my Retrotec.


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## rockychrysler (Aug 9, 2003)

i like the duratrac fork quite a lot and think it's especially nice on the retro, for many reasons.



girlonbike said:


> Wow, that looks nice. You like how they ride together? I was contemplating a rigid for my Retrotec.


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

*Cove Bike Shop trivia*

Some Cove Bike Shop build minutiae...

Early Ritchey with Cove Bike Shop sticker









Clip from 1980 Trailmaster catalog showing modified Magura grips:









Thirty years later:









1980 catalog clip for headset seal:









Edco headset with lower seal:


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

nightshade_rider said:


> Some Cove Bike Shop build minutiae


Great stuff man...thanks for sharing all this!!!


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

Info and pic from the DKG site.
DKG-Musem Page










Koski Trailmaster bicycle - 1979 -1980
The Trailmaster was certainly one of the first purpose-built production mountain bikes, after the Breezer, Ritchey-built Mountain Bikes and the Pro-Cruiser. The photo is of frame #1 taken at the Mint 400 near Las Vegas.

One of the reasons I started DKG was to build this frame. Don Koski was a longtime motorcycling friend from high school and was one of the people I would go 'bombing' with on Mt. Tamalpais. His family owned Viking Ventures bike shop and Don and Erik were putting together the first mountain bike parts catalog. They wanted their own product line as well, and commissioned DKG to make the Trailmaster frames. We built the frame, fork and sub-assembly fixtures and only about 100 frame sets before politics ended the relationship.

These frames featured internally butted head tubes and bottom bracket shells, 4130 tubing, TIG welded construction, an original rear dropout design that has been much copied since.

The 'Koski' fork was based on a design I had done during the Trailmaster period, but didn't have the capital to produce.


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

stan lee said:


> Info and pic from the DKG site.
> DKG-Musem Page


Thanks for posting that link. A machined prosthetic wrist? Coolest freakin' thing ever. Guitars, motorcycles, machined bike parts...love it...


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Curved and tapered forks on a Retrotec Classic is the only look that works for me. 


rockychrysler said:


> my retrotec and my ibis both have koski duratrac forks.
> 
> View attachment 777640
> 
> ...


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

*All in Due Time.*

If one notices through out the articles spanning decades the Koski's don't go around saying stuff like I did this, we did that or even speak out to correct things. They just stay out of it.

To Stan Lee...The picture of the Traimasters in the moonlight was from a recent Derby and I did post it...The cool skip toothed Trailmaster was not my posting but the bike is owned by one of Donny's friends and we had it at the Biketoberfest booth last year.

Here is a early photo of Donny on one of his bikes in around '76. Check the Moto-x Fox shox and the Redline double clamp stem!


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Are you sure about that being 76". The only reason I question that is the snowboarder in the background.


PiasRoller said:


> If one notices through out the articles spanning decades the Koski's don't go around saying stuff like I did this, we did that or even speak out to correct things. They just stay out of it.
> 
> To Stan Lee...The picture of the Traimasters in the moonlight was from a recent Derby and I did post it...The cool skip toothed Trailmaster was not my posting but the bike is owned by one of Donny's friends and we had it at the Biketoberfest booth last year.
> 
> Here is a early photo of Donny on one of his bikes in around '76. Check the Moto-x Fox shox and the Redline double clamp stem!


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

jeff said:


> Are you sure about that being 76". The only reason I question that is the snowboarder in the background.


I think it's a dude on ski's going right to left...also looks like he's holding ski poles...


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

sho220 said:


> Thanks for posting that link. A machined prosthetic wrist? Coolest freakin' thing ever. Guitars, motorcycles, machined bike parts...love it...


Dave plays bass, and made his own beautiful instrument. One night I had him and Ross Shafer (Salsa) jamming in my studio, and Ross was playing a guitar HE built himself!


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

sho220 said:


> I think it's a dude on ski's going right to left...also looks like he's holding ski poles...


Ha! I actually saw it like Jeff and couldn't see what you were saying for a bit and then had an eureka moment like the old witch/young woman puzzles.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

jeff said:


> Curved and tapered forks on a Retrotec Classic is the only look that works for me.


The Retrotec ..wow.


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## Howley (Nov 23, 2005)

*Marc had 2*

Marc had a ranch in Castle Valley before moving to Moab. His Trailmaster (seen here) ended up in the SFO Airport Display.
Here are two:








My 3 toptube slingshot in the background...and a Potts @1986 or 1987 me thinks.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Howley said:


> Marc had a ranch in Castle Valley before moving to Moab. His Trailmaster (seen here) ended up in the SFO Airport Display.
> Here are two:
> View attachment 778253
> 
> ...


Such a cool pic


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

Howley said:


> Marc had a ranch in Castle Valley before moving to Moab. His Trailmaster (seen here) ended up in the SFO Airport Display.


Very cool photo Howley, did you take that? Do you have other pictures from that trip? From what I understood Norstad re-welded the headtube as a preventative because a few of the frames had cracked in that area (Matt's being one) and then Potts covered the work with Paint- is that true? Thanks for posting...


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2013)

Any pics of the headtube decal straight on.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Great picture, Howley. Triple top tube slingshot? Do you have another picture of that bike?


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

shawnw said:


> Any pics of the headtube decal straight on.


No  it's a MOAB sticker that Marc made.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

The Witz is Cool.


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## Howley (Nov 23, 2005)

Shots were taken with a Pentax SLR. I used B&W film developed with standard color processing that created a great effect. Marc and I switched off on ownership of that camera over a 10 year span. Not sure where the camera went.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

That makes sense. Interesting picture. It gives me the impression of wanting to zoom out and see so much more of what's in the picture....


like....

the slingshot!


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## syklystt (Mar 31, 2010)

what a bunch of great info and pics...thanks!!!!


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## Howley (Nov 23, 2005)

*Castle Valley Koski*

The photo Album from that series. Notice of the 2 Marc frames one has rack mounts...


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

Thanks for that Howley, such great photos!!

I love this one....


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

*my other murdoch bike,*

1982 trailmaster, came from koskis with rear brake arm mount. atom rear was modified by mike rust with a 135mm axle.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

stan lee said:


> Thanks for that Howley, such great photos!!
> 
> I love this one....


yeah, awesome photos. Thanks for sharing Howley! Love bike road trip photos and this one is especially neat.

I'd like to see how those rock spires (?) in the background look like now.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

stan lee said:


> Thanks for that Howley, such great photos!!
> 
> I love this one....


Epic!!


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

hoot man! marc had a great diner too! now a burger king.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

..my other murdoch bike,
Way cool...More on this bike,please. How old is this photo?
Is this bike still as shown?


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

you can't see the rope, but i's probably a snurfer.


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

by the way, i need one white Trailmaster decal for the downtube. anyone?


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Yep you're right. He's in the back seat for sure.


sho220 said:


> I think it's a dude on ski's going right to left...also looks like he's holding ski poles...


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## cursivearmy (Jan 26, 2004)

den haag said:


> by the way, i need one white Trailmaster decal for the downtube. anyone?


hey sandy, i don't have one, so apologies for the reply. BUT, i was wondering, (and again, sorry for the stray off topic) what is the cool bike just to the left of the trailmaster? it looks like it has a cam style front brake, and then some sort of scorcher style bars.

i'll keep my eyes peeled for trailmaster decals.

mark's bike just came back from the SFO show to our shop, and they (joe breeze) put one trailmaster decal on the drive side.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

cursivearmy said:


> hey sandy, i don't have one, so apologies for the reply. BUT, i was wondering, (and again, sorry for the stray off topic) what is the cool bike just to the left of the trailmaster? it looks like it has a cam style front brake, and then some sort of scorcher style bars.
> 
> i'll keep my eyes peeled for trailmaster decals.
> 
> mark's bike just came back from the SFO show to our shop, and they (joe breeze) put one trailmaster decal on the drive side.


How dare you speak off topic!! See you in hell NW. 

The bike you're asking about in the pic...I think its the Ham that everyone urged him not to restore so that patina could be preserved. But was restored anyway. :madman:


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

I had a conversation today with Dave Garoutte. He told me that he personally completed 60-70 bikes, and there were a few frames that he sent directly to the Koskis for assembly. From the nature of the conversation, 100 total bikes seems like the upper limit, and even that might be a little high.

After a Breezer, the TrailMaster is probably the most collectible off-road bike of its era, since Ritchey MountainBikes and even ProCruisers are far more numerous. In the draft for my book, I point out that the TrailMaster was a superior design to the Ritchey MountainBike, with a larger diameter tube set and a stouter fork. If those guys could have solved their production problems, one of them would be composing this post.


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

*upwardly mobilehome.*

sorry rumpfy, the bike you are referring to was probably #C which i wet sanded, waxed and sold to the shark two years ago. my cunnningham is in the process of being repainted, #7. the bike next to my trailmaster is my cook bros. which is the first bike i bought from neil murdoch. it had a ta triple, new winner 13-32, atom drum brakes,magura bars and levers and a b-72. it has a cunningham type two with roller cam and hi-e hubs. ti seat post, and cruiser bars that i got from jack widmer at vegas in 2001. see this in the cruiser thread. and i am sorry #C had to go. he loves it, which is some consolation. i am in a quandry, as i'm not that fond of the color my #7 was painted in. would it be offensive to you if i were to paint it a different color? this means a lot to me ( sorry to speak off topic). i just can't see red snakes on a purple bike.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

A Cunningham in CB? Den Haag is Sandy Hague?


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

One thing for sure DH has cool bikes and they look as though they could have once rolled around these parts.
p


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

It seems that there are more than a few bikes in this queue that could have rolled out he same back door.


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

you can see the "spires" from the pic at the witz's ranch in a credit card commercial running now. i think they are called fisher towers. they are on the drive down from cisco to moab.


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

den haag said:


> by the way, i need one white Trailmaster decal for the downtube. anyone?


Hey Sandy- As Nate said, Joe put a decal on the Witz bike that he got from Erik which means I have an extra. If Erik doesn't want one back I'm happy to send it your way.

From what I understand sometimes they made it to the tt and sometimes they ended up on the dt depending on the day/customer.


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

*just found these*

two nice pics. i have the parts to build a TA triple for this bike. then it will be done. yes, CK, i wondered about decal placement, but went with my preference. thanks, sandy


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

Great shot of the Koski dropout. ^^^ Joe Breeze says of it, "When you first see it, you say, 'Duh! Of course!' because it's obviously so much stronger."


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

Great photos, the bike looks to be in good shape after all these years!


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## S-Trail (Apr 30, 2013)

*Inch-Pitch Trailmaster?*



sandmangts said:


> Whats the story on the skip tooth drive train? Did they grind off the teeth? Was there a specific reason why they went with that? Strength of the chain maybe?


Hey Sandmangts,

The Trailmaster with the inch pitch set up was built by a kid from Bolinas California. A lot of kids that grew up riding dirt on Mount Tam were hooked on the pre-war drive trains.. (Skip-tooth Morrow and such). This guy had the coolest idea of how to stay with skip tooth and keep it light! He used an old set of aluminium Campy track cranks. I think guys raced skip-tooth on track bikes into the 60's....with block chain to boot! The skip tooth sprockets are 3/16" thick. That is one trick Trailmaster.

S-Trail


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## Guest (May 8, 2013)

*Koski fork*








Fresh Chrome


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## S-Trail (Apr 30, 2013)

*Koski Straight Blade*



Not so fresh chrome!


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## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

That's a great fork SW! What's the story about it? Saving it for a project?


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## Guest (May 9, 2013)

chefmiguel said:


> That's a great fork SW! What's the story about it? Saving it for a project?


Hey Miguel, with this fork it's no longer a project  It's a 1988 American Breezer.


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

S-Trail said:


> Not so fresh chrome!


Thanks for sharing, looks like that ones been around the block a few times! Do you have a photo of the complete bike?


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

*Cannonball!*



S-Trail said:


> Not so fresh chrome!


I Knew it was you. S-trail....So much correct history. 
Thanks
Moon Derby at the Bowl the 24th .


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

shawnw said:


> It's a 1988 American Breezer.


Hope it's not mine, stolen in 1994.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Repack Rider said:


> Hope it's not mine, stolen in 1994.


You definitely document everything pretty good...if you have the serial number from yours, we can tell for sure...thought based on what I know, pretty sure its not a stolen one.


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## S-Trail (Apr 30, 2013)

*Derby!*



PiasRoller said:


> I Knew it was you. S-trail....So much correct history.
> Thanks
> Moon Derby at the Bowl the 24th .


Piasroller... your Koski fork is denting my Koski fork, but somehow I think EK would approve...



S-Trail


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

DK '76 'ish.


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## rismtb (Dec 11, 2012)

Heh that rear goes with this front


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## Guest (May 19, 2013)

*Koski Fork*

Chrome plated Koski fork, on a polished aluminum American Breezer frame.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

rismtb said:


> Heh that rear goes with this front


Naugh...the last time I saw a sus fork like that it used bungee cords. 
DK had a telescoping moto fork sorted out for the frame...Probably off a Hodaka ACE 100 or something.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

shawnw said:


> Chrome plated Koski fork, on a polished aluminum American Breezer frame.


It wasn't sold with those decals.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Repack Rider said:


> It wasn't sold with those decals.


I'll bet you a beer it looks better with the ones Joe gave him


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## Jak0zilla (May 16, 2010)

I used to know a guy in NYC in the early 90's with an American Breezer with those decals. He was the original owner, the frame was hard anodized and had a custom American drop bar stem for a WTB bar. 

I believe that he also knew JB somehow, but I always thought those decals were "as shipped".


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## Guest (May 21, 2013)

Repack Rider said:


> It wasn't sold with those decals.


I know CK. Read the 1988 Breezer Thread.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Never been built

Joy


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

hollister said:


> Never been built


I hope you remedy that situation.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

hollister said:


> Never been built
> 
> Joy
> 
> those drop outs..


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2013)

When I think of Holy Grail bikes, this is one of them. I would love to hear the back story on this one.


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

hollister said:


> Never been built


Wow, a NOS Trailmaster ... Who'da thunk it? I am speechless.

Forget about the backstory, I'd sooner believe Hollister conjured this one straight from the ether.

Nice work, dude.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

laffeaux said:


> I hope you remedy that situation.


Me too. Pretty significant score.



nightshade_rider said:


> Wow, a NOS Trailmaster ... Who'da thunk it? I am speechless.
> Forget about the backstory, I'd sooner believe Hollister conjured this one straight from the ether.
> Nice work, dude.


Even a blind squirrel gets a nut every once in a while! Lucky for the rest of us, he'll build it right and take great pics.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Not much of a story to it, TM190015 has been hanging in garages for the past 30 odd years waiting to find its way to me

Full length brake routing and rack tabs










Now I gotta find all the right bits to make it a bike.. Anyone have some correct Phil wood wheels?


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)




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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

tductape said:


>


Nice!!


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

Trailmaster Ti


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

looks like a willits. the later willits', that is. and i love the dropouts! welcome back to the top shelf, mr. koski. next, a rigid fork?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Awesome find Hollister! Now I know the reason for the handlebar question.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Has anyone ever seen a Ti TRailmaster?


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

It looks like that add is from the late 90's early 2000's. Rim brakes, Hayes disc mounts option, no mention of 700c or 650b wheels ect. It would be cool if it was 2013. 


den haag said:


> looks like a willits. the later willits', that is. and i love the dropouts! welcome back to the top shelf, mr. koski. next, a rigid fork?


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## S-Trail (Apr 30, 2013)

*Ti Trailmaster*


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Some weirdness 


















From the 2000 catalog


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Ti trailmaster has a specific chainstay length for each size.


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

colker1 said:


> Has anyone ever seen a Ti TRailmaster?


Not a ti Trailmaster, but there is a ti Phoenix around with those dropouts.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

colker1 said:


> Has anyone ever seen a Ti TRailmaster?


Yep. They were burley. Over 4 pounds just for the frame. There were a couple prototype steel ones, as well - 6 pounds each.


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## victorthewombat (Jan 12, 2004)

This Koski thread sure brings back memories of the shop, and people who work there! And the frame that was modified for a rear drum brake - I remember that bike in its unpainted state......trick! 

VTW


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

that one originally went to neil murdoch, in crested butte.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

*Koski's in the Moon Derby pile.*

Not much to modify to install a drum on the rear (spacing)...But Atom hub axles are like butter....I think the mods they were speaking of previously were about the hub.

Had a great turn out for a Derby garthering last Friday with a warm night and a awesome moon. I think we were riding still at 2am.

Ti Potts below the Cannondale. It is highly recommend not to ride high end boutique bikes to a Derby, they could become a jump. 
One cannot leave their wheels unattended for too long around these operations. 
p


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

i'm sure folks are more conscientious regarding "stacking" these days. there was no modification to the frame for the atom brake. just extra cable routing and a slider for the brake arm. mike rust modded an atom, reducing the axle from 145mm to 135, and had a run of chrom-mo axles made. it is pretty cool, for an atom.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

TRAILMASTER and other.
A link to a Bros. site. 
The krunk of the klunk | Peter Verdone Designs
I want a bash that he makes.


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

??? Wtf ???


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

If I remember right it's some sort of boss for a rail riding attachment?


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

stan lee said:


> If I remember right it's some sort of boss for a rail riding attachment?


Which might explain this one as well...


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

is that rust??


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## victorthewombat (Jan 12, 2004)

Nightshade_Rider; 

Do you own that frame? That was Mark Norstads Trailmaster, back in 1982 it was one of the first bikes to Titanium bolts (hand machined by the by) for the Phils on it. 

VTW


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## squareback (Sep 19, 2011)

victorthewombat said:


> Nightshade_Rider;
> 
> Do you own that frame? That was Mark Norstads Trailmaster, back in 1982 it was one of the first bikes to Titanium bolts (hand machined by the by) for the Phils on it.
> 
> VTW


Isn't that Maya's brother? Whatever happened to him? He was a paragon of machining Ti bolts.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

Sorry to butt in...
Not Marks TM but a good friend's of Mark's... the hubs are Mark's (not just the bolts, one can see his initials and date in centers) and the Ti stem is Paragon also.
The twin to this TM is close by also. The two Gurlly mon's that own them painted them at the same time, that gorgeous multi-color, when they were new and they do still throw them on the piles.
That rust is not actually rust at all but fine original patinaed protective coating reinforced by beer splash.
This TM pictured is back in that picture of that Pile, fourth tire up from lower right. 
Is CNC considered handmade?... IDK, but one of the guys on this thread could answer that as he may have been working one of the machines that cut some of the bits of the stem and hubs pictured.


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

victorthewombat said:


> Nightshade_Rider;
> 
> Do you own that frame? That was Mark Norstads Trailmaster, back in 1982 it was one of the first bikes to Titanium bolts (hand machined by the by) for the Phils on it.
> 
> VTW


A bit of confusion here ... I think VTW might of been referring to this frame (TM #20) which I asked him about in a PM. Was this black one Mark Norstads?

Just finished building it up ... I'll try and get some decent shots to post up here soon.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

AAHHH...Got it. NICE!
I could ask him if he remembers his bikes #. Do you have head tube gussets? Or is it a virgin?
Mark at one time had a bunch of TMs hanging in his old shop though.
You could PM me what you know.


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## victorthewombat (Jan 12, 2004)

Mark N's was the only one with gussets on the top and down tubes to the best of my knowledge. I highly doubt their were others, unless Mr. Norstad made additional modifications.....the TM frame weres actually burly even by today's standards both M. Slate and E. Koski broke theirs by unfortunately ramming them into trees.

VTW
I owned TM #5


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

PiasRoller said:


> AAHHH...Got it. NICE!
> I could ask him if he remembers his bikes #. Do you have head tube gussets? Or is it a virgin?
> Mark at one time had a bunch of TMs hanging in his old shop though.
> You could PM me what you know.


No headtube gussets. It's a bit different than the other TMs I have seen in that it has newer-style split housing stops and a plastic cable guide screwed on under the BB.

It is also possible that the housing stops might have been re-brazed at some time, as I see some file marks on one of the stays where a stop is usually located.


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2013)

nightshade_rider, Can't wait to see a photo spread now thats it's finished. Please give your Trailmaster it's own Thread.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

+1.


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

victorthewombat said:


> both M. Slate and E. Koski broke theirs by unfortunately ramming them into trees.


Yeah, no doubt! That fork is so stout it sure isn't gonna cry uncle before the headtube gives out.


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

*Prototype DuraTrac fork?*

I came across this unusual DuraTrac fork today. It has elegant scalloped dropouts smoothly transitioning to the socket rather than the deeply shrouded ones you typically see. And the blades are noticeable beefier than the normal DuraTrac.

Pre-production proto? Maybe someone here has seen these before.


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

Wow, that is a cool fork, I've never seen one like it.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

pretty sure it is not Koski. I know that both Tange (they made some Koski's) and Spinner made forks soon after the DT was released and there was nothing they could do about it.

One little note...Early DTs had ATB cast in the drop-outs and later ones Koski.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Koski sold the blades to builders. I don't think that's a Koski though. Koski blades should taper from 1" to 3/4" at the bottom I believe.

Will post pics of my Steve Potts Type II with Koski Dura Trac blades soon.


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

PiasRoller said:


> pretty sure it is not Koski. I know that both Tange (they made some Koski's) and Spinner made forks soon after the DT was released and there was nothing they could do about it.


It's kinda disappointing to learn the fork is likely a knockoff but I guess it should be expected - the DuraTrac was a good fork that was gaining market among the higher end builds, and others obviously took notice.

Here are some other shots of the fork - steerer attachment is very different between it and the DuraTrac.


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

and here they are on a landshark...

Koski forks - Page 2 | Retrobike


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

nightshade_rider said:


> and here they are on a landshark...
> 
> Koski forks - Page 2 | Retrobike


I still don't think it's a spinner or tange, there are little differences like the round bosses and the longer, concave scalloped dropouts. It does look like the one on the Landshark...


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

nightshade_rider said:


> It's kinda disappointing to learn the fork is likely a knockoff but I guess it should be expected - the DuraTrac was a good fork that was gaining market among the higher end builds, and others obviously took notice.
> 
> Here are some other shots of the fork - steerer attachment is very different between it and the DuraTrac.
> 
> ]


That dropout is definitely not a Koski. It is cast which means it is from a big manufacturer (probably Tange). The blades could possibly be. What do they measure at the bottom? Another unique trait to the blades is that they were bent over a much larger radius than the standard fork then. Most forks then had their rake put in on the bottom third of the fork leg whereas the Koski started up near the crown.

As for that cold set reinforcement in the bottom of the steerer tube, that would be a builder's option. I have Koskis with that and some without.


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

PiasRoller said:


> One little note...Early DTs had ATB cast in the drop-outs and later ones Koski.


Like This:


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Another unique trait to the blades is that they were bent over a much larger radius than the standard fork then. Most forks then had their rake put in on the bottom third of the fork leg whereas the Koski started up near the crown.


Here:


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

That's a nice fork T, how long is the steerer?


Steve


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Not short, not long. Never measured it


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

Fillet-brazed said:


> That dropout is definitely not a Koski. It is cast which means it is from a big manufacturer (probably Tange). The blades could possibly be. What do they measure at the bottom? Another unique trait to the blades is that they were bent over a much larger radius than the standard fork then. Most forks then had their rake put in on the bottom third of the fork leg whereas the Koski started up near the crown.


Hey FB - the blades measure .800" near the dropouts compared to .750" for the DTs. And 1.125" near the crown compared with 1.00" for the DT. Visually beefier.

And yes they have that gentle constant radius bend from crown to dropout like the DTs.

I think you and PiasRoller are correct in suggesting the blades (and entire fork) is a Tange knockoff. It would be interesting to know if the wall thickness tapers down the length of the blades like the real DTs, but I don't think I'm gonna cut them apart to find out.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Real Koski or not, it's a nice fork.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

*MN's Trailmaster*

#51
Mark's bike has machined drop-outs. There was only two built with these drop-outs...the other one was shipped to Sweden or zomtingk. 
I have a couple more pic.s I can post of Mark's ride later but want to post some cool news.
Ya..suure.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

*New Koski Forks?*

Get this...there will be a small batch of Koski forks made. These will be made in a similar style to Donny's original design he had Cook Bros. make back in the day for the Bombing community. These were used by everyone, including JB and GF, on there bikes because it was essentially the first ATB fork.

These new forks will be done with a 1" machined steer, for all you forkless Klunkers out there, that will increase in diameter where the 'Uni-crown' blades will be welded.
There are other cool twists to this Bomber fork, such as new style drop-outs and different brake type mount options.

The size of the first run on the the DK 'Bro-line Fork' will depend on the demand.

Interested? Let us know ASAP.


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

I want a Trailmaster for my collection. Dig this thread.

Sweet bike there.


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

PiasRoller said:


> #51
> Mark's bike has machined drop-outs. There was only two built with these drop-outs...the other one was shipped to Sweden or zomtingk.
> I have a couple more pic.s I can post of Mark's ride later but want to post some cool news.
> Ya..suure.


Can someone please post a pic of what bolts to the back of the head tube and seat stays of these frames?

Steve


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

PR,
How many of these bikes were modified to ride the rails? Any pictures of the setup in action?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

PiasRoller said:


> Get this...there will be a small batch of Koski forks made. These will be made in a similar style to Donny's original design he had Cook Bros. make back in the day for the Bombing community. These were used by everyone, including JB and GF, on there bikes because it was essentially the first ATB fork.
> 
> These new forks will be done with a 1" machined steer, for all you forkless Klunkers out there, that will increase in diameter where the 'Uni-crown' blades will be welded.
> There are other cool twists to this Bomber fork, such as new style drop-outs and different brake type mount options.
> ...


Hot damn! This is great news! That is a beautiful bike....omg.

Also, put me in for a tee shirt, he he happens to ever have a small or xs one.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

20 first.


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

PiasRoller said:


> 20 first.


I sent a pm - please put me down for one!


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

PiasRoller said:


> These will be made in a similar style to Donny's original design he had Cook Bros. make back in the day for the Bombing community.


Very cool. When you say "original" are you refering to the straight non-tapered leg style like on the TM above or the tapered leg style either straight or curved?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

stan lee said:


> I sent a pm - please put me down for one!


Stan Lee is reeking of desperation.


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

Please, please, please, please.

If you think my post seems desperate you should have seen my PM!


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

pick me, pick me! yes, i want one.


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

Ok, so until one of you guys posts a pic of this "rail rider" contraption, I am going to assume that it never existed, and the mounting points on these frames were put there so you West Coast guys could bolt your bikes to each other, so you wouldn't fall over when riding together.


Steve


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

I hear the east coast should be getting google soon


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

muddybuddy said:


> Very cool. When you say "original" are you refering to the straight non-tapered leg style like on the TM above or the tapered leg style either straight or curved?


DK asked Cook Bros. to make 26" forks for Bombers based on their BMX fork design. 
CBR forks are on both JB's and GF's original nickel plated bikes.

The new fork will be built with the same look as a Cook's but with a different but similar drop-out, larger diameter tubing at the legs, machined steer and Paragon cantilever bosses that have removable posts. Some will come without brake bosses.
Will have an update next week.


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

the railbike is not fiction. people have been making bikes adapted to train tracks for quite a long time. but the real stories are of the freight train hopping.


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

shawnw said:


> nightshade_rider, Can't wait to see a photo spread now thats it's finished. Please give your Trailmaster it's own Thread.


I posted some pictures of TM #20 here


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

*New Donny Koski Fork*

This is a fork for all the Bomber's out there who have been starved for a nice Cook Bros. fork (Ouch $$$$) or something similar.
Handmade in Northern California with a new patent pending dropout. 
They have 1" dia. blades with clearance for a 2.4 tire, 1" machined single piece steer and Paragon cantilever boss' (posts removable). 
Some will be made without boss' for the drummers out there.
This first batch will be available in black or white powder coating.
On the dropout sides the Kski is cut through while the Koski down the "Fying Fin" dropout will be machined in but not through and will be highlighted by one of the contrasting colors.

PM me if interested.


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Thats pretty bad ass. Ya know though, it kinda needs a new frame to go with it.


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

Is this likely to be one of those things that since I'm asking how much it's going to be...I won't be able to afford it?


Steve


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

*New Koski Fork!*

In production!

* the modeled image shows a hole near the top of the DP...It will not be there.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

*Koski Klunk drop-outs*

The Bomber forks ready soon!


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

*A thing Koski*

This is DK003. The complete first batch will be ready shortly. 
Will also get back to the PMs when all are ready and I know exactly how many of what set-ups are available.
Thx
p


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

Koski clipless pedals?

Koski Brand New Clipless Pedals 9 16 | eBay

seems odd they came off a Mongoose.

Steve


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

*1" Steer Koski Bomber forks*

Blk or wht powder coat and bare.

Cantilevers or none.

8-1/2" machined steer threaded down to 5-1/2" with a thickened collar at the crown.

PM if interested.

thx
p


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

OK, a couple more to add. Nickel plated version...fork #DKO17.


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

finally got enough of the right stuff to build this bike properly. next week, pearl pass.


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

Looks like you are ready to rock 'n roll!

I suspect that granny ring won't be quite as shiny by the time you drop into Aspen...


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## Howley (Nov 23, 2005)

What bars are those?
Cool setup BTW!


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## Howley (Nov 23, 2005)

Don KOSKI will be at Interbike - FYI


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

Bars look like Specialized X-1 aluminum.

The bike looks great!


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

*more koski*

i finally put that cunningham type 2 back on the shelf where it belongs(for now).


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

den haag said:


> i finally put that cunningham type 2 back on the shelf where it belongs(for now).


I hope you at least put it on the top shelf 

Koski looks like its ready for action.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

*Sorry to clutter up this thread...but,*

The Bro-Bomber (one SS and the other with gears) and the Bro-trail built around a 140mm fork.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

PiasRoller said:


> The Bro-Bomber (one SS and the other with gears) and the Bro-trail built around a 140mm fork.


These are fantastic...


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## unicrown junkie (Nov 12, 2009)

Those look absolutely great. I think that the only other frame I have liked design wise that has been brought to the "modern" age has been the 26" Quadangle. This is a classic that can now certainly be right at home with any modern bike made.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

*Ti Trailmaster*

...


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

Daaaamn. Glad to see it dirty. How does it ride?


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

First time i ever see a Ti Trailmaster.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

Alan Bonds showed up at the coffee house on a new Koski bike. (Alan is sitting at far right in top photo) He clear-coated it so you can see the welding. Dropouts are as beefy as dropouts can be, with the signature right-angle flange.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

Koski Bro-Bomber in Redline Red.


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## Blackies Pasture (Mar 3, 2015)

Lots of fun on true singletrack.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

*Alan Bond's Koski Bro-Bomber*

...Blackies Pasture Build looks sweet!


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## Blackies Pasture (Mar 3, 2015)

Lots of slick tricks... Magura lever covers over Shimano SLX brakes.


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## PiasRoller (Sep 7, 2012)

Cool...mini bars?...love the Koski seat.
I have one with Rastafarian colors left.
Ya..mon.
These bikes with the moto bars feel like Trailmasters!


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

PiasRoller said:


> Koski Bro-Bomber in Redline Red.


that thing is pure bike lust.


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## Blackies Pasture (Mar 3, 2015)

So I hope this is the best thread to ask this question:

Does anyone know the correct OD of a Trailmaster seat post? After stripping my original frame, I notice that it had the wrong seat post. I am going to have to make a tool, to reswedge the ID larger, so if anyone has an original dimension to shoot for I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Blackies Pasture said:


> So I hope this is the best thread to ask this question:
> 
> Does anyone know the correct OD of a Trailmaster seat post? After stripping my original frame, I notice that it had the wrong seat post. I am going to have to make a tool, to reswedge the ID larger, so if anyone has an original dimension to shoot for I'd appreciate it.
> 
> Thanks.


26.8


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## Blackies Pasture (Mar 3, 2015)

hollister said:


> 26.8


Thank you so much!

I will take a pic of the tool I use. basically an old Ashtabula stem, inside a machined sleeve that goes into the frame.

After making a slotted 26.8mm OD sleeve with a 22.2mm ID (Ashtabula size) I just install, expand, reinstall, re expand, move around and gradually work the pinched seat tube back out to the correct ID.


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## mauricer (Apr 15, 2011)

Does anyone have a riding experience with the bro bomber? I have been sneaking around that framset quite a while now. but would like to know more about it. Who rides it rigid and who uses the 100mm suspension?

Thanks

Moritz


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Trailmaster party at the April fools derby


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## Obi (Oct 16, 2005)

Angel Island Meet FTW! So cool they still do it. Saw the video is up already.


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## nightshade_rider (Apr 18, 2007)

*Koski Trailmaster RB-2 catalog*

Here is a scan of the early Koski Trailmaster RB-2 catalog. Interesting that Erik Koski's preferred build was a single chainring with cyclocross bash guards, and a modified wide-ratio freewheel with 38T big cog. Early 1x setup when all the rage was 2x6 or 3x6 MTB drivetrains.


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Great stuff, thanks for sharing.


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## LeeDumler (May 23, 2014)

Don let me borrow his bike this weekend. Rides nicer than I expected, and the angles are just right for plowing through the twisties at top speed.


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## Blackies Pasture (Mar 3, 2015)

Is this a Koski fork for 300 or best offer on ebay? 
Vintage Koski Mountain Bike Fork | eBay


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## ZSW (Feb 5, 2019)

I ordered a bro bomber and it came missing the dropouts and axle. Don was able to hook me up with dropouts and the supplied bolts are m4. The holes in my frame are m3. Can someone check and see what size are on their bro bombers? 

I will probably just tap the frame for the m4 bolts but I wanna see what everyone else has first


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2019)

PiasRoller said:


> ...


Not to many of those around...did you buy that from Chris? If so, I've ridden that bike 

Edit: Nevermind, his bike had disc brakes.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

ZSW said:


> I ordered a bro bomber and it came missing the dropouts and axle. Don was able to hook me up with dropouts and the supplied bolts are m4. The holes in my frame are m3. Can someone check and see what size are on their bro bombers?
> 
> I will probably just tap the frame for the m4 bolts but I wanna see what everyone else has first


Don't tap the frame. The correct "bolts" are just countersink, zinc-coated, philips head screws that you can probably find at any hardware store. I"ll post a picture but might be a couple of days.


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## ZSW (Feb 5, 2019)

iamkeith said:


> Don't tap the frame. The correct "bolts" are just countersink, zinc-coated, philips head screws that you can probably find at any hardware store. I"ll post a picture but might be a couple of days.


I have those bolts already. They are a m4 Phillips countersunk bolt that came with the drop outs. As far as I can tell they match the drop out and are what everyone else has on their frames. The issue I'm having is that the dropouts and bolts don't match the frame. The holes in the dropout do not line up with the holes in my frame in addition to the holes being threaded differently than the supplied bolts. At this point I'm assuming the frame was made wrong for some reason but I want to see if anyone else had issues before sending it back or anything


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

ZSW said:


> I have those bolts already. They are a m4 Phillips countersunk bolt that came with the drop outs. As far as I can tell they match the drop out and are what everyone else has on their frames. The issue I'm having is that the dropouts and bolts don't match the frame. The holes in the dropout do not line up with the holes in my frame in addition to the holes being threaded differently than the supplied bolts. At this point I'm assuming the frame was made wrong for some reason but I want to see if anyone else had issues before sending it back or anything


Here you go - they do look more like M4 than M3 to me. I'm sure you are capable but I'd be cautious about drilling and tapping and try everything else first, because the position of the chips determines axle alignment.
















A couple of other things worth mentioning:

1) As is common, there's likely paint in the threads. Install the screws alone and/or tap the threads before you try to install the chip.

2) If I recall correctly, it wasn't necessary to slide the chips all the way to the front of the dropout receiver slot. Let the screws determine location. Once the axle is installed, everything will be locked in place - even if there were NO screws.

3) FYI, Paragon made the first batch of chips "incorrectly" (I think the hanger worked with SRAM derailleurs, but wasn't quite long enough for Shimano?), and a few frames probably went out that way. Don then had new ones made at his expense and sent them out. I had already made the old one work by shaving excess material from the b-link on my shimano derailleur, so I haven't compared the replacement chip for fit. I'm assuming you got the new one and I suppose there's a slight possibility that the screw hole alignment is a tiny bit different on the newer ones... though I'm pretty dubious. I mention it because it might be worth contacting whoever you bought the frame from and tell them to send the original hanger, just to try. As my pics show, it's perfectly usable anyway, with just 30 seconds of effort.
















Take your time, be patient, and I hope you love your bike even half as much as I love mine!


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## ZSW (Feb 5, 2019)

@Iamkeith thanks for taking the time to share that info. The dropout inserts that Don sent me look like the ones you have and have the same bolts. My dropouts look slightly different than yours do though. The steel looks thicker on mine and mine are not painted on the side the insert goes on, it just has the bare ED coating. My axle is also very tight fitting in the dropout but I’m attributing that to thick paint. I’m probably going to try to send the frame back to the distributor I bought it from unfortunately. They were the ones who shorted me the dropouts and axle in the first place. They were unable to find the original ones but got in touch with Don and he sent me the ones I have now. I don’t feel like hassling him over something someone else screwed up. Did you have to clean the treads on your bottom bracket? Mine have lots of paint and what looks like dirt/metal under the paint on them. I haven’t tried to thread in the bb yet but it doesn’t look promising


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

My axle was tight in the dropouts, but even more so in the hub. I'm fairly new to thru-axle hubs though, and this was is my first high-end boutique one, so I attributed it to that. After installing and removing it a few times, it's easy. I just hit the bb threads with a wire brush, and they were very good. In fact, what I heard was that the frames were generally so high quality that that no chasing or facing was required, here or at the headtube (none of which stopped me from managing to cross-thread one of my alloy bb cups before I realized how easy the other one threaded in. Again, attributing to being a technno newby to T47 and the proprietary tool. grrr.) With the un-painted part, it sounds like you might have gotten a fluke but, just in case, the vertical face of the dropout IS thicker than the flange part.


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