# Why seatpacks ?



## caspar (Feb 2, 2004)

Hi can somebody explain why everybody has their seatpacks as high as possible? As in up under the saddle. Wouldnt it be more sensible to get it as low as u can , ie a minimalistic rack with a drysack strapped to it , it would still be centered and easier to pack,unpack and load . I dont get it , but then i still have my 1st real bikepacking trip to come. Surely a rack could be made light and strong enough to be able to cope with offroad trips with , what 10-12 lbs max on top of it. Cheers


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## armii (Jan 9, 2016)

Mine is high, I have a dropper seat post, so it doesn't hit anything when the seat is down.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

For hardtails, no need not to get it low. With a full suspension, clearance is needed. IMO, I'd rather have it lower, or in a frame bag to keep the weight centered.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Depends on the terrain in my experience, and what you mean by "offroad." Sure, there are lots of places you can use a rear rack instead. But when the going gets truly rough I prefer a well-designed seatbag with minimal/no sway.


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## lentamentalisk (Jul 21, 2015)

If you need 15-20lbs, a rack is the way to go. That much weight, and it really does matter where it goes. With my seat bag, it doesn't really ever weigh more than 5-7lbs. It gets my tent (1-2lbs), some warm clothes (1-2lbs), some food, and maybe some other random things. At that point, an inch or two doesn't make a big difference. I should note though, my seat bag doesn't stick up, it sticks directly out back.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Easier to ride in tight singletrack without a rack, less weight. As well as suspension compressing. Me? I'm running a rack on the back of my Karate Monkey. More of a dirt road/path kind of tour this summer.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

caspar said:


> Hi can somebody explain why everybody has their seatpacks as high as possible? As in up under the saddle. Wouldnt it be more sensible to get it as low as u can , ie a minimalistic rack with a drysack strapped to it , it would still be centered and easier to pack,unpack and load . I dont get it , but then i still have my 1st real bikepacking trip to come. Surely a rack could be made light and strong enough to be able to cope with offroad trips with , what 10-12 lbs max on top of it. Cheers












Top photo = OMM Little Mule UL rack.

Your question is like asking why don't we always use a flat blade screwdriver? And the answer is because that's not always the right tool for the job.










Bottom photo = Porcelain Rocket seatbag

Depending on the bike, the ride and the load to be carried I'll pick a different setup.

You'll note that the rear bag is not much different height between the two options.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^Is that OMM Little Mule UL rack for sale yet? I got on a notification list but never heard anything...


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

http://forums.mtbr.com/bikepacking-bike-expedition/revisiting-rack-1007530.html

If my body would allow me to do more then overnight trips I would seriously consider a custom rack and bag setup.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bsieb said:


> ^Is that OMM Little Mule UL rack for sale yet? I got on a notification list but never heard anything...


I don't know. Other than pestering OMM about the project until they built a prototype I have nothing to do with them.

I would email/call them and ask.

Based on my knowledge of the company it's a small operation and they are always crazy busy so they may have forgotten to send out an update.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^Pester... got it.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

I bought a Little Mule rack but I'm a local. I haven't gotten a chance to actually use it yet but I'm excited about being able to fully drop my seat on my full suspension bike.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Nice setup ^^^ :thumbsup:


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## roadfix (Oct 7, 2008)

I was about to go with a minimalist rack / dry sack set up until I found a Revelate clone on Ebay for under $50. Called a Kada Pak Ratt, it's a decent bag, large volume, and minimal sway, if any....
But I do have a minimalist rack on the front with a 20L compression sack strapped on it. It contains my hammock with integrated bug net, top quilt, and under quilt.


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

If you don't have much stuff, it's significantly lighter than the rack/bag setup.

There is a point that racks make more sense, though.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

I grew to hate seatbags for a number of reasons.
1. Being small and having a 29er plus bike pretty much rules out using anything more than a small tool bag under the seat.
2. Even on my 29er I had to point the end of the seatbag up into the air to keep it from hitting the rear tire. Even then over the years I managed to put a hole in both my seat bags.
3. With the rear end of the seat bag way up it hindered mounts and dismounts.
4. They are a PITA to load and unload and if you need something towards the front of the bag then you have to drag everything out to get to it then repack it.
5. Good luck if you want to use a dropper seat post.

Unfortunately for me this means a return to carrying more on my back in a backpack. I try to minimize this by not carrying any water in the backpack but only putting in lighter bulkier items. My water gets carried in my framebag and for extra capacity cages on my fork. 

I also got away from sweetrolls and harnesses too because they too are a PITA to load and unload and they crush the **** out of your cables.

But I do have a rear seatpost clamp on rack that can hold a nice size dry bag for trips where I don't need the dropper post.

Even with a sweetroll and seatbag I always ended up carrying at least a camelback.

Tall guys with big frames can carry a lot more than I can and can make seatbags work for them, so a lot of it has to do with your size and your bike size.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I'm a tall guy with an XXL ECR and my back only carries my flapping open button-up shirt. Much comfier without a backpack. 

Seatbags work great and I don't have any trouble loading mine. It holds stuff that does not generally need to be unloaded during the day. 

Sweet Roll/Harness is sort of a mess. I'm running an 8L dry bag (just the length of the "hole" in the Jones bar) secured with a Revelate Pocket. Still mashes cables but is easy to use. I see lots of set-ups with super wide bags. Seems less than ideal, no? 

Finally...score one for the tall guys!


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## TubeSSnapper (Nov 15, 2004)

For an ultra light set up bags make more sense for me. I like to ride "fun" trails and ideally I can all but. Forget about my gear.
Plus I can repair a bag strap onthe trail,but not a metal rack.
Racks do break
With more gear though for touring I've used racks many times. Packing is simple and lugging beers those last few miles is much easier.
Horses for courses.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

big_papa_nuts said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/bikepacking-bike-expedition/revisiting-rack-1007530.html
> 
> If my body would allow me to do more then overnight trips I would seriously consider a custom rack and bag setup.


 Got a hammock? I find mine very comfy.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

leeboh said:


> Got a hammock? I find mine very comfy.


ENO Double Nest. I can nap in it but could never sleep all night in it. I'm actually pretty comfortable sleeping on the ground, but the body problems I mentioned cause problems on the bike not while "camping".


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## OmaHaq (Jun 1, 2010)

Originally it was all about not running a rack which was a weight penalty. It was a racing thing and like most racing things, normal folks like to adopt that stuff. 

There are pros and cons to everything man. Your setup is about what works for how / where / what you ride. I like seat bags b/c I pack stuff in them I only need at specific times. Not stuff that I need to get in and out of the bag for. Stuff I need in a hurry goes on the bar or on the frame somewhere. Rain jacket and food are good examples of stuff that never ends up in the seat bag.

There are very good arguments for racks and panniers. And there is a reason they are still used. If you want to haul a lot of crap for a really long distance, rack systems give you added stability and capacity. And you can't ignore the vintage look which some people like.

I'll run a rack on our beer rides; no brainer there. But if it's three days out on a bikepack, I'm baggin' it.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Welnic said:


> I bought a Little Mule rack but I'm a local. I haven't gotten a chance to actually use it yet but I'm excited about being able to fully drop my seat on my full suspension bike.
> 
> View attachment 1080871


Looks really clean Clint.

I ran a very similar setup ~10 years ago. Loved that I could run a rack and racktop bag on my 29" FS bike. So much easier to load/unload/organize than a seatbag. So much more comfy than a hardtail.

Actually ended up ditching it pretty quick. Because the mass of your load is _very_ far back, and kinda high, it really ended up driving the front of the bike in ways that I couldn't compensate for.

Keep light/puffy stuff *only* in there and it might just be fine.

Thanks for sharing.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

It's a little farther back than a seatbag, but it is also definitely lower. I'm going to be putting the same stuff that would go in the seatbag that it replaces. I should be going out for a couple of nights this weekend so I'll see how it works.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

My FS bike doesn't have the bolt holes for a rack. And I'd be concerned about the rear suspension smacking a rack on big bumps.










Jandd makes a seat bag that ties down to the seat stays like a rack would. It's called the Mountain Wedge III and is quite nice! I have one myself and use it on my rigid bike. Link here: https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FMW3

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Love this RP seatbag - it's the least amount of sway I've found in a seatbag that doesn't use rigid hardware:










Then again on mellower terrain and longer trips, this is a sweet way to go:










I like keeping things minimal and keeping my bikepacking rig as light as possible, and I know that if I use larger bags then I actually need, I'll probably fill them with stuff. With that in mind, I prefer not using a rack and panniers unless they are really called for.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

connolm said:


> My FS bike doesn't have the bolt holes for a rack. And I'd be concerned about the rear suspension smacking a rack on big bumps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OMM has a lot of different ways to attach racks. They sometimes use the rear axle or p-clamps on the seatstays, like the one on the front support on my rack. If you are worried about rack attached to the seatstays getting hit when the rear suspension moves then you're not thinking about it correctly.


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