# why is marzocchi drop-off triple so bad?



## congonic (Sep 4, 2004)

on a previous post i was told these were terrible.

why is that? and also, are they air or oil?

thanks


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## binary visions (Jan 18, 2004)

congonic said:


> on a previous post i was told these were terrible.
> 
> why is that? and also, are they air or oil?
> 
> thanks


 They are coil/oil forks.

The reason they are "bad" (though this is a relative term) is that they use a simple ported damper in the fork to control oil flow. That means that the way they restrict the oil flow in the fork (in order to keep it from compressing too fast) is by forcing it through a small hole. That works well for low speed compressions (drops, slower speed hits, etc.), but when the fork tries to force a large amount of oil through, it can't and locks the fork out.

But keep in mind that you're talking to a bunch of bike snobs here. It's not a bad fork. It's simply a budget fork, and performs as such. It's not nearly as good as a good cartridge damper fork like a Super T, Shiver, 888, Sherman Slider, etc., but all of those forks cost twice as much so you'd expect more performance out of them.


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## noonan28105 (Mar 12, 2004)

*what is dropoff good for then*

So .....What is this fork good for then? Is it good for aggressive budget trail riding, few drops less then 8 foot. what is it good for then.



binary visions said:


> They are coil/oil forks.
> 
> The reason they are "bad" (though this is a relative term) is that they use a simple ported damper in the fork to control oil flow. That means that the way they restrict the oil flow in the fork (in order to keep it from compressing too fast) is by forcing it through a small hole. That works well for low speed compressions (drops, slower speed hits, etc.), but when the fork tries to force a large amount of oil through, it can't and locks the fork out.
> 
> But keep in mind that you're talking to a bunch of bike snobs here. It's not a bad fork. It's simply a budget fork, and performs as such. It's not nearly as good as a good cartridge damper fork like a Super T, Shiver, 888, Sherman Slider, etc., but all of those forks cost twice as much so you'd expect more performance out of them.


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## finchy (Jan 21, 2004)

take it from me... i have been riding a SSV dampened fork all summer and that is what a drop off triple is... id save the cash up for a better dampened fork...its worth the cash and or wait

with my DJ3 when i ride on trails it doesnt absorb hits unless u go super slowly or if its DJing...DJing it excells at because it is very stiff and well built, other then that i would go for a HSCV or TPC+ or SPV dampend fork


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

noonan28105 said:


> So .....What is this fork good for then? Is it good for aggressive budget trail riding, few drops less then 8 foot. what is it good for then.


slow speed impacts, which are generally things like drops and jumps, hence why the same damping mechanism isi used for the dirtjumper forks

at high speed and through rock gardens, they are pretty bad

it's like the car I learned how to drive in, it was a ferrari 308. The thing was though, that it was bought at a drug auction as a chassi and they put a fiat engine in it. It sure looked like a ferrari from the outside, but the performance was pretty bad, same with the dropoff. Looks cool, but there aint much going on with the internals....


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## binary visions (Jan 18, 2004)

Take what Jm says with a grain of salt, he's about the biggest snob on the board when it comes to forks and dampers.

Fact is, lots and lots of people ride forks with this damping mechanism to great success. Got a buddy who bought a Jr. T for his first year of DH and he just took first place in Sport class at a local series... For his first year of riding DH, it doesn't seem to slow him down any. Uses the same damper as the Drop Off.

If you can't afford a more expensive fork, it's a damn good place to start. If you can afford a more expensive fork, you WILL notice a difference in the pricier models. But budget constraints are budget constraints and sometimes you just don't have the dough.


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

and lots of people drive fiats too...

my mistake was buying a Jr T after having a Z2 and an Xvert...

my main beef with them is that at a certain speed, they just dont work. I'd rather a budget fork be ok all around, rather than good at low speed and terrible at high speed, either that or some sort of non-adjustable cartridge that you have to put different oil in to get a different feeling (like with the old manitou mach-5 pro-C forks)...


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## noonan28105 (Mar 12, 2004)

Well I was about to buy a drop off 2 to replace a dirtjumper 2 that i have. But now after your advice I'm gonna get something else. Whatcha think about a 04 z1 fr eta qr20 ..I found one for 465.00 ..same travel as dj2 but better dampening...either that or a z150 fr for 549 but its more travel and dont wanan mess up riding postion on bike..
Is the z1 fr a good choice..



Jm. said:


> and lots of people drive fiats too...
> 
> my mistake was buying a Jr T after having a Z2 and an Xvert...
> 
> my main beef with them is that at a certain speed, they just dont work. I'd rather a budget fork be ok all around, rather than good at low speed and terrible at high speed, either that or some sort of non-adjustable cartridge that you have to put different oil in to get a different feeling (like with the old manitou mach-5 pro-C forks)...


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

yes, same chassi, same travel, but it's very much NOT the same fork, the Z1 will be plush and active in all conditions in a very wide speed range, to adjust for bottom you'll raise the oil level as with any marzocchi (if say you are going to use it to dirt jump or whatever), the cartridge dampers in the Z1 are just worlds better than the ported damper in the dropoffs. If you have to ride on a trail to get to dirt jumps, you'll appreciate the Z1, in fact in pretty much all conditions you'll appreciate it...


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## binary visions (Jan 18, 2004)

Jm. said:


> yes, same chassi, same travel, but it's very much NOT the same fork, the Z1 will be plush and active in all conditions in a very wide speed range, to adjust for bottom you'll raise the oil level as with any marzocchi (if say you are going to use it to dirt jump or whatever), the cartridge dampers in the Z1 are just worlds better than the ported damper in the dropoffs. If you have to ride on a trail to get to dirt jumps, you'll appreciate the Z1, in fact in pretty much all conditions you'll appreciate it...


 The Drop Off Triple is a 6", double crown fork, so it's not the same travel or quite the same chassis.

Other than that, I agree with this post  - the Z.1 will be a much better damper.. again, if it falls within your budget.


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

binary visions said:


> The Drop Off Triple is a 6", double crown fork, so it's not the same travel or quite the same chassis.
> 
> Other than that, I agree with this post  - the Z.1 will be a much better damper.. again, if it falls within your budget.


try reading the preceeding post next time 

He was talking about a dirtjumper vs a dropoff vs a Z1.


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## noonan28105 (Mar 12, 2004)

So ok.So i have a dj2 right now....Im not going to buy a drop off....So the z1 fr qr 20 is a good trade off from that? The z 150 fr is basically the same as the z1 fr but with 150 travel...correct? I can't wait to see what the z1 fr is gonna feal like on my bike. Good thing this post came up about the drop offs or i would of been in the same boat as the dj2. Thanks



Jm. said:


> try reading the preceeding post next time
> 
> He was talking about a dirtjumper vs a dropoff vs a Z1.


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

Yes, the Z1 will feel like a million bucks compared to the DJ you have.

The reason marzocchi sells so many low end forks is that in the showroom, and at 5mph in a parking lot, they ALL feel EXACTLY the same. Once you start picking up speed faster than a walking-pace, the forks start to feel very different, and as you go faster, the Z1 feels just as plush, while a dropoff or DJ just gets worse and worse. 

You'll feel a world of difference and have a LOT more control because the fork will be doing a much better job.

(yeah, the Z150 is similer with 6" of travel, it's reinforced so it can have 6", but damping wise it's like a 6" Z1)


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## bullit71 (Apr 9, 2004)

Guys,

My girlfriend and I just got back from Northstar, and we rented the Kona Stinky's that have the Drop Off Triple. When jumping and at low speeds it was nice, but at anything faster than walking speeds, it was awful!! I did easier runs with her that were still choppy, and by the end of the day, my wrists and hers were in severe pain! We kept commenting to each other that we might as well have been riding with rigid forks. I couldn't believe it. Not to sound like a puss, but it was truly a bad experience. I would NEVER purchase that fork, unless I was jumping only. 

I just bought a used Boxxer Race, and hope that it will perform better at high speeds, and still take some jumps/dropoffs. Perhaps JM can answer that.

-Bullit71


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## oreo321321 (Jul 12, 2004)

I havent read the posts in this thread, but I have the 2004 stinky with the drop off triple. I love the fork. It has like no sag, and is EXTREMLY ajustable. I mean from like bottoming out off a curb, to a rigid. I dont care that it is not that great for slow small bumps (like Really small bumps) but who rides slow anyway? Its very nice. I jumped a blind hill into a parking lot (stupid of me), and so after I landed I realized there was a parking block at the bottom, i had to run right thorugh it very fast, it soaked it up very nice. If this is your first big travel fork, or dual crown, it's great, and EXTREMY AJUSTABLE.


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

oreo321321 said:


> *I havent read the posts in this thread*, but I have the 2004 stinky with the drop off triple. I love the fork. *It has like no sag*, and is EXTREMLY ajustable. I mean from like bottoming out off a curb, to a rigid. I dont care that it is not that great for slow small bumps (like Really small bumps) but who rides slow anyway? Its very nice. I jumped a blind hill into a parking lot (stupid of me), and so after I landed I realized there was a parking block at the bottom, i had to run right thorugh it very fast, it soaked it up very nice. If this is your first big travel fork, or dual crown, it's great, *and EXTREMY AJUSTABLE*.


is this for real? because if it is, you need to be dissallowed from posting anything at all....

i think there should be a rule that you have to have experience on more than one product before actually giving a review of it...


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

zedro said:


> is this for real? because if it is, you need to be dissallowed from posting anything at all....
> 
> i think there should be a rule that you have to have experience on more than one product before actually giving a review of it...


And if the first fork over 3" that you ever have is a Jr T, you should be barred from reviewing the fork untill you've owned something different.


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

what bothers me is not even bothering to read other peoples posts. Not having practical experience is one thing and always forgivable, but self-imposed ignorance and lazyness is another. How the hell can you learn anything even you dont take the effort to read other peoples comments?


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## binary visions (Jan 18, 2004)

zedro said:


> is this for real? because if it is, you need to be dissallowed from posting anything at all....
> 
> i think there should be a rule that you have to have experience on more than one product before actually giving a review of it...


 I kind of want to dissect all the things that are wrong with that post, but I guess I shouldn't completely crush the kid's spirit...

ANY post that starts, "I haven't read all the posts in this thread..." should be automatically deleted, with possible exceptions given if the thread is more than a couple hundred posts. That should be standard functionality along with the curse filter.

And Jm, yes, I skimmed the other post a little too quickly


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## oreo321321 (Jul 12, 2004)

Well SOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRY.........At least I put my two cents in, he asked for opinions, I gave mine. 

Not every one has time to sit at their computer and read everything, but I tried to help


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

oreo321321 said:


> Well SOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRY.........At least I put my two cents in, he asked for opinions, I gave mine.
> 
> Not every one has time to sit at their computer and read everything, but I tried to help


apparently, not everyone has time to give good help and advice either. And by not reading what anyone else wrote, you dont even realize what a fool you look like by completly contradicting a near dozen experienced riders, and something that has been said ad-nauseum on this board for a long time. Ignorance must be bliss....


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## ezweave (Jul 9, 2004)

I think the problem with your post (as z has pointed out) is that you ignored what everyone else said. They all are more experienced and have ridden many forks. If I went from riding a rigid BMX bike (or your mongoose or whatever it was), of course I would think an RS Jett was great (or hell, an RS-1...). It is called a benchmark. 

It also boils down to a simple failure to quantify fork performance. Taking about "small slow bumps" doesn't say anything incredibly meaningful about how well it works. BTW no sag is a bad thing.


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## oreo321321 (Jul 12, 2004)

As I stated before, IT WAS MY TWO CENTS, contradict that.

BTW, I have no sag because it is really stiff right now.


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## matt (Feb 2, 2004)

oreo321321 said:


> I havent read the posts in this thread, but I have the 2004 stinky with the drop off triple. I love the fork. It has like no sag, and is EXTREMLY ajustable. I mean from like bottoming out off a curb, to a rigid. I dont care that it is not that great for slow small bumps (like Really small bumps) but who rides slow anyway? Its very nice. I jumped a blind hill into a parking lot (stupid of me), and so after I landed I realized there was a parking block at the bottom, i had to run right thorugh it very fast, it soaked it up very nice. If this is your first big travel fork, or dual crown, it's great, and EXTREMY AJUSTABLE.


They didn't say it is bad at slow small bumps. They said it was good at them and bad at high speed bumps, or rock gardens. Things that aren't just one hit kinda deals. Have you ridden your fork at very many rocky places? and also i would classify riding over a parking block as a one hit. i would really consider reading the posts next time.


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

oreo321321 said:


> As I stated before, IT WAS MY TWO CENTS, contradict that.
> 
> BTW, I have no sag because it is really stiff right now.


as i remember from your previous posts and wonder threads, zero sag seems to be what you want.....


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

oreo, i thought you were going to be better now that you have a bike. tru it might feel great to you, but go to N* and hit some runs with it, then hit it with a stinky with a super T, it will feel like night and day.


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## oreo321321 (Jul 12, 2004)

As I stated when I first wrote my first post in this thread, I did not read all of the posts, I was too busy. 

Yes, I do like not having sag in the front, and I like to ride my bike like a rigid, until I go off a drop or somthing, personal preferance.

I said that my fork does not soak up small bumps because I have if very stiff. 

I'm going to test my bike this weekend at a riding spot next to a ski resort, and there is spossed to be some rocky areas in there, so I will let you guys know what I think after that, otherwise, MY two cents are, the fork is great.


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