# solo night riding preparations



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

I like riding solo at night in the canyons where AT&T cell phone coverage does not exists.
I use both a bar and a helmet LED light. The scariest aspects are when the wind pick up and I hear the trees creeking...which makes me pedal faster to get out of that area.
Other than that, I'm shopping a light-weight fixed-knife with sheath that will retain the blade on a crash yet also can be accessed rapidly: Got any suggestions?

please keep your comments towards something useful, non-judgemental.


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

I don't really have any brand suggestions, but I am curious where you were looking to keep it. On your waist? Strapped to your leg? Some other way altogether?

I don't think I'd be comfortable having one on my waist, even in a good sheath. That still leaves one end sort of dangling out there. 

If I were to carry one, I think I'd feel safest with it strapped to my leg. Leg straps usually have 2 straps, so both ends of the knife are secure (not free to dangle or move around). So no matter how you crashed, you'd never have to fear falling on it.

Anyway, knowing how you intend to carry it may narrow down the suggestions you get.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

fightnut said:


> I don't really have any brand suggestions, but I am curious where you were looking to keep it. On your waist? Strapped to your leg? Some other way altogether?
> 
> I don't think I'd be comfortable having one on my waist, even in a good sheath. That still leaves one end sort of dangling out there.
> 
> ...


I used to carry my Benchmade 710d2 Axis-lock folder in a leather sheath looped into my bike 3/4 pants, on strong side towards the rear.

so I'd try the same, but I might get a cobbler to create a custom shealth
.


----------



## qdave (Jun 5, 2007)

Best idea I have seen is a mini dive knife. They come with a hard sheath where you need press a button (with your same thumb) to release the knife. Usually attached to a camelback front strap.

Something like this:
Amazon.com: Promate Point Tip Scuba Dive BC Knife (3" Blade): Sports & Outdoors


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

TrailNut said:


> I like riding solo at night in the canyons where AT&T cell phone coverage does not exists.
> I use both a bar and a helmet LED light. The scariest aspects are when the wind pick up and I hear the trees creeking...which makes me pedal faster to get out of that area.
> Other than that, I'm shopping a light-weight fixed-knife with sheath that will retain the blade on a crash yet also can be accessed rapidly: Got any suggestions?
> 
> please keep your comments towards something useful, non-judgemental.


Not that I've ever considered carrying a knife but I'm curious; What are you attempting to protect yourself from....mountain Lion, bear, coyotes, ...etc. ?


----------



## tangaroo (Jul 17, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> Not that I've ever considered carrying a knife but I'm curious; What are you attempting to protect yourself from....mountain Lion, bear, coyotes, ...etc. ?


I carry a small knife on every night ride. The trails I usually right at night are outside of a very low income area and is infamous for bums living in the woods. You never know... luckily I have never any reason to pull it out, but I'd hate to not have it on the night that I need it...


----------



## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

I carry a folding gerber knife in my back pocket. The scariest things I have come across on the trails at night are people. I have seen people on trails at night maybe 3 or 4 times. I'm guessing they were doing something involving sex or drugs or both. I don't want to judge but I do these things at my house usually. Every time I rode by without incident, but I was happy to have the knife.

Mountain lions aren't a very realistic threat however they still make me think twice. People say a knife won't help against a lion, but this isn't exactly true. There are many stories where people fight off mountain lions. There was a recent attack were some guy defended himself with a sleeping bag. I can also recall a story where a guy killed a mountain lion with a frying pan. Every attack is unique, so if you're pounced on unaware you're probably screwed but you may end up being happy you brought that knife.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

qdave said:


> Best idea I have seen is a mini dive knife. They come with a hard sheath where you need press a button (with your same thumb) to release the knife. Usually attached to a camelback front strap.
> 
> Something like this:
> Amazon.com: Promate Point Tip Scuba Dive BC Knife (3" Blade): Sports & Outdoors


ahhh thanks, your suggestion lead me to consider this now:
Amazon.com: U.S. Divers Titanium 5-Inch Diving Knife: Sports & Outdoors

...thanks


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Not that I've ever considered carrying a knife but I'm curious; What are you attempting to protect yourself from....mountain Lion, bear, coyotes, ...etc. ?


felons and predators, including that mountain lion we saw in the Wildcat Canyon Park, in twilight, that sent cool chills down my neck...and my buddy visiting from Alaska said the same. That was awesome.

On another night ride, my dog, a Chesapeake Bay, that wondered up hill about ten yards ahead, outside my LED light range, suddenly yiped loudly and took off running back to me. I was thinking, if a predator jumped my dog, I'd prefer to sort that out with a steely option in addition to my loving kindness attitude...know what i mean.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

I know of or heard of folks, both male and female, that have defended self and others with a knife or sharp stick vs. mt. lion. Not everyone's a wimp in our modern "Age of Cowards," to quote late Col. Jeff Cooper (R.I.P.).

if you are not already dead and can move then you can do something useful...


----------



## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

I'd opt for a folding knife, but with thumb studs so that it can be opened easily. If you practice with it a dozen times, it's almost as fast as a fixed blade. I would be more concerned about even a sheathed knife coming out on a crash and then cutting/impaling myself on it.

I'm partial to Gerber knives as I've never been let down. This one has a 3.6" blade, rubber grip, finger grooves...exactly what you want if you need to be punching it into something. Light too, and folds up to about 4" long.

Amazon.com: Gerber 31-000591 Freeman Guide Folding Sheath Knife: Home Improvement


----------



## extremebikeguy (Nov 28, 2012)

TrailNut said:


> ahhh thanks, your suggestion lead me to consider this now:
> [link Amazon .com: U.S. Divers Titanium 5-Inch Diving Knife: Sports & Outdoors[/url]
> 
> ...thanks


Hello,

I've been lurking around learning all I can about LED lights in this forum for the past couple weeks. But it was this post that I felt obligated to create a user name and chime in. The knife you indicate in your link is a great knife. I have used it (stainless version) as a dive knife for the past 10 years. I think that it might not be best suited for your needs however. The way is fits into it's sheath it by a plastic latch that engages with the handle and it tends to rattle a little within the sheath. I imagine that if I were to strap it to my body and head down the trail I would go insane. that knife if perfect for diving, but might not be ideal for MTB. I would have to second the folding knife option, but if you must go with a fixed blade maybe take a look at a SOG seal pup elite, or their mini pentagon. Another option might be to take a look at knives made by ESEE, like his ESSE 3. Hope this input helps.


----------



## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

My 2 cents. IMO nothing beats a very bright light on the helmet. I am sure you'll agree we can't fight what we can't see. You are in a better position of control, unless he's got a gun. The knife would probably scare off vagrants unless he's got a bigger one, and it'd be a very close combat if you had to use a knife against animals.

With these scenarios, isn't it a better idea to use a Taser or torch fitted a 5MV stun gun? I'd prefer this stun gun baton though. Linked the more expensive and possibly reliable ones because it's not the time to go cheap on things that could save your life.
Has an animal like a mountain lion or bear ever been taser-ed?

If you have to go with knives, storage safety and quick release is paramount. A lockable sheathed knife can be secured to the rails under the saddle or the seat tube - matter of bending up some brackets. Foldable knives are still a better and safer option. For tasers and stun guns best to secure them to where the drink bottle cage usually goes.

Leonard


----------



## il2mb (Jan 27, 2005)

Been riding solo night rides for 10 years mostly in SoCal mountain lion country. I currently ride in the desert south of Phoenix at night and love it. Seen every kind of critter, including mountain lion. Most of my sightings occur at dusk before the lights go on. Used to carry a knife but I put that away years ago. Not very likely to be attacked by anything out there. Bikes are noisy and the addition of a bright light scares the S*** out of everything anyway. Your most serious concern is being injured while riding and unable to phone for help. Letting people know where you are going and what time you're expected back is VERY important. Take the right tools/spares and supplies to manage equipment failures and you'll be fine. In the 10 years of riding I have only had one mechanical. Preparation is key to enjoying yourself and you'll ride with more confidence.

It's a kick solo night riding. It keeps my senses sharp.


----------



## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

I would stay away from titanium as a blade material, unless you absolutely _must_ have a corrosion resistant blade. A good steel (stainless or otherwise) sharpens easier and holds it's edge just fine. If weight is your concern, DAJO makes a nice knife, but the sheath is rubbish...buy one that suits your needs.

Think about investing in a gps unit of some sort with an emergency 911 feature. As some of the others have said, you are more likely to be screwed by being injured, and the knife is unlikely to help you there.


----------



## Spec7 (May 3, 2000)

extremebikeguy said:


> if you must go with a fixed blade maybe take a look at a SOG seal pup elite.


X2 on the SOG Seal Pup with the Kydex sheath. I've used one for years and had it fixed to my shoulder strap for many rides with no issues of it loosening or falling out. You can probably find an older "New Old Stock" online at a good price. I would caution you about the specific Kydex sheath model KYD-E37 though. That rope cutting groove in the sheath will accidentally slice backpack straps too.


----------



## smthgfshy (Nov 11, 2010)

il2mb said:


> Been riding solo night rides for 10 years mostly in SoCal mountain lion country. I currently ride in the desert south of Phoenix at night and love it. Seen every kind of critter, including mountain lion. Most of my sightings occur at dusk before the lights go on. Used to carry a knife but I put that away years ago. Not very likely to be attacked by anything out there. Bikes are noisy and the addition of a bright light scares the S*** out of everything anyway. Your most serious concern is being injured while riding and unable to phone for help. Letting people know where you are going and what time you're expected back is VERY important. Take the right tools/spares and supplies to manage equipment failures and you'll be fine. In the 10 years of riding I have only had one mechanical. Preparation is key to enjoying yourself and you'll ride with more confidence.
> 
> It's a kick solo night riding. It keeps my senses sharp.


what he said.

I've got a degree in wildlife biology (wolves) and the scariest thing out there is yourself. Prep well, be smart. Your best protection is your brain, especially when all else fails.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

This discussion is most interesting. I pretty much agree with *il2mb*. Not that I have anything against knifes but if I were to carry one it would be mostly for utility purposes.

I don't often ride in remote mountainous areas but when I do the thing I fear most is rattlesnakes. Snakes are not always easy to see, particularly at night. Snakes love trails because they can be a good place to hunt prey. I've seen rattlesnakes fully stretched out laying across a trail just laying there soaking up the sun. Real easy just to run right over one doing that as they look a lot like a stick. Now if I had some thigh-high snake gaiters then I would be more relaxed. So far I've had three encounters ( daytime ) with rattlesnakes in the mountains and I really don't ride mountains that often. Each time was in the day and I saw them well before I got close enough for one to strike.

Bears ( black bear ) when spotted are usually very timid and usually turn and run as soon as they sense a human. ( Now if you spot a bear and it doesn't move away when it see's you...Bells and whistles should go off in your head. Luckily I don't ride in areas where bears are common place. Snakes on the other hand...:eekster:...are more common place. Usually not a problem if you see them in time but there in lies the problem. You don't always see them.

Encounters with strange people don't worry me so much particularly at night. Most people are completely spooked by someone riding a bike at night with bright lights. Last thing they want to do is mess with someone who they really can't see well ( because of the bright lights ). As far as they know, you could be the police. I think the only situation that might worry me with an encounter with someone strange would be if if I was dealing with a small group of youths ( say three against one ). That's because sometimes kids can be brave when with their buds and therefore causing the stupidity/danger factor to rise a bit. In a situation like that its probably better to just bug out if you can. If you try to draw a knife who's to say one of these punks isn't carrying a gun ( and stupid enough to use it ).

Of course as has been already said, sometimes we are our own worse enemy. Likely the most probably thing to happen to you while on a ride is having a bad accident. If you normally ride alone you have to be aware of your surroundings and ride with caution.


----------



## Nothing's impossible (Mar 5, 2012)

why not save for a personal locator beacon instead of a knive? 

You might get attacked by an animal, chance is what? 1/1000 000 000??? 
And even if you succeed in wounding and chasing away your the culprit, big chance you are left wounded and in shock without help. By the time people realise you are missing you might be in big problems and they have to start looking for you! 

Criminals? They will see you coming from miles away and hide and if they are really bold they'l just shoot you from a distance, no real help from a knive I'd say, but if you still manage to push the emergency button after being shot, you might stand a chance!

Anyway, if you are so "prepared" (read as paranoid) that you grasp hold of a weapon to defend yourself in time to do so, the chance of hurting yourself or someone dear to you will be much bigger than the chance that you are actually attacked! 

I would consider buying a beacon if I would ride often in areas without cellphone coverage, a nasty fall is enough to get you into serious troubles, on a cold night even a stupid technical problem might turn a long fun bikeride into a dangerously long survivalhike!

I do carry a leatherman during most of my solo rides. Well hidden in a pouch in my jerseypocket. 
It has 2 blades, mostly used to cut dried meat, it has a pliers, nice to be able to unscrew a tubeless valve or cut a wire tangled in the wheel,...
It has inbus keys, torx keys, a file, a saw,.. nice to have, certainly if you realise you lost your multitool on the way, or if you realise the multitool doesn't have a torx keys but your bike does,...


----------



## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

Criminals? They will see you coming from miles away and hide and if they are really bold they'l just shoot you from a distance said:


> These aren't criminals like in the movies who lie in wait to ambush a trail user, but rather people who are doing shady things in the woods at night. Its more of a surprise for both parties which could cause someone to react badly. Most likely that's going to be the person in the woods to do shady stuff as opposed to someone in the woods to exercise.
> 
> You make it sound like carrying a knife for many reasons including protection is some kind of self destructive paranoia with a huge potential for disaster. Its just a knife. Cub scouts carry them. Its not like were riding around the woods looking to knife people...


----------



## Nothing's impossible (Mar 5, 2012)

:skep:


derekbob said:


> These aren't criminals like in the movies who lie in wait to ambush a trail user, but rather people who are doing shady things in the woods at night. Its more of a surprise for both parties which could cause someone to react badly. Most likely that's going to be the person in the woods to do shady stuff as opposed to someone in the woods to exercise.
> 
> You make it sound like carrying a knife for many reasons including protection is some kind of self destructive paranoia with a huge potential for disaster. Its just a knife. Cub scouts carry them. Its not like were riding around the woods looking to knife people...


So, With a few thousand lumen of light you are blinding the couple on its way to "the causy spot", irritated the guy reaches for his extreme bright torch to let you now you are blinding them. Now he notices the dive knive strapped on your leg which makes you look rather shady. 
:drumroll:

The young boy, eager to protect and impress his new girlfriend might already have grasped his scoutingknive or taser or whatever weapon he's taken to protect him from wild animals and shady guys,  you see him take his knive or whatever and decide it's time to grasp yours, the girl takes her pepperspray out of her handbag as she sees you grasping for your knive,...

As you probably didn't have real training with the weapon, you didn't realise you should' ve stopped before taking the knive out,:blush: now, one of the best case scenario is something like: you took the knive while you were trying to stop with one hand, you loose the knive and a crash into a tree or something,:madman: the girl who didn't receive training either is spraying around in pannick so the three of you are blinded:cryin::cryin::cryin:, and as she runs away she stumbles and sprains her ankle avoiding her to run away to far, and the cup scout keeps rather cool and doesn't do anything stupid. with some luck he uses his flashlight to send an emergency signal into the air, picked up by someone so you are all recovered and you get out of prison in a reasonable amount of time.

If you had received weapon training, and you ended up using the knive:band: it would be a lot longer in prison.

But, if you had received weapon training, you wouldn't be mountainbiking with a dive knive strapped on your leg:skep:


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ya know you could of said Pepper spray makes a good defensive weapon and saved some time...


----------



## Nothing's impossible (Mar 5, 2012)

Cat, You didn't bother reading it uh? 

The girl (probably spraying against the wind) blinded herself as much as her oponent 


What I meant to say was: Leave weapons at home, go to some martial art course if you feel insecure Or start watching other movies

And, in the- smaller than winning the jackpot- chance you are attacked by wildlife in a canyon, the black belt will be helpful to effectively use a knive against a wild animal that has the guts to attack a human, but a stone or a stick might be a more effective weapon if you know how to handle it!

I wander, if you fear a wildlife attack while mountainbiking, you must be a prepper?!
do you believe that the world is going to end in 22 days??? anyone??


----------



## tangaroo (Jul 17, 2012)

I'll still always have a knife with me. Again, I have never had to use it for other than utility purposes, but if the day comes where some whack-job KY hillbilly comes chasing me, I'll be in somewhat of a better position than I would be without a knife. Just personal preference.


----------



## Freediver (Jan 1, 2008)

I have been riding with these for years, granted it takes some time to dismantle the seats and you have to use a tandem all the time, but hey, no one messes with me.

Seriously, when I was in the States I really wished I had some of that bear spray mace , we saw bears everywhere and then "slept" in a tent with our food tied on ropes between trees, I did not sleep much at all. That stuff must be pretty good against bad guys too?


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

Nothing's impossible said:


> why not save for a personal locator beacon instead of a knive?
> 
> You might get attacked by an animal, chance is what? 1/1000 000 000???
> And even if you succeed in wounding and chasing away your the culprit, big chance you are left wounded and in shock without help. By the time people realise you are missing you might be in big problems and they have to start looking for you!
> ...


i do not agree with many of your assumptions, but thank you kindly for your input.

...always be appropriately prepared (to help others) and be happy 

have a good one.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

Nothing's impossible said:


> :skep:
> 
> So, With a few thousand lumen of light you are blinding the couple on its way to "the causy spot", irritated the guy reaches for his extreme bright torch to let you now you are blinding them. Now he notices the dive knive strapped on your leg which makes you look rather shady.
> :drumroll:
> ...


to have it strapped to leg would not be discreet, as I would not want to make anyone uncomfortable: there's a balance between discreet and legally compliant.

back to topic: for urban use a folders' fine, but for an excursion in the woods at night i prefer a discreet and secured fixed blade of minimal weight, say under 8 ounces.

I have training, by the way, :winker: ...to not fight, if that's is right.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

Freediver said:


> I have been riding with these for years, granted it takes some time to dismantle the seats and you have to use a tandem all the time, but hey, no one messes with me.
> 
> Seriously, when I was in the States I really wished I had some of that bear spray mace , we saw bears everywhere and then "slept" in a tent with our food tied on ropes between trees, I did not sleep much at all. That stuff must be pretty good against bad guys too?


funny post, thanks.

actually, a CA cop told me that possession of nunchucks can warrant a felony weapons charge as that's considered an "offensive" weapon while a pistol would be a mere misdemeanor, but a visible knife's legal. your experiences may vary.

when we go backpacking, we bring our dog in the tent and hang up the food or secure in a container, downwind, among other precautions.

maybe I'll join that night riding MTB group again, but I like picking my own schedule...


----------



## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

Nothing's impossible said:


> :skep:
> 
> So, With a few thousand lumen of light you are blinding the couple on its way to "the causy spot", irritated the guy reaches for his extreme bright torch to let you now you are blinding them. Now he notices the dive knive strapped on your leg which makes you look rather shady.
> :drumroll:
> ...


I'm starting to think you're a troll, but I'll give it a go anyways.

If you had read anything I typed you would know I carry a folding gerber knife in my back pocket. So that kills your whole crazy scenario, which is about as likely as getting attacked by a mountain lion, which I also said is not any realistic danger.

If it bothers you people carry knives it must really bother you that people drive cars, because they are much more dangerous and require more responsibility.

Don't let reality get in the way of your soap opera quality imagination though.


----------



## Nothing's impossible (Mar 5, 2012)

Trailnut, i can imagine a lot of stuff that I would rather carry than a fixed blade knive. 

If you believe that it is useful to carry one, go ahead, as I told before, the chance that you ever will use it for self defence is rather small, but it makes a cool toothpick ;-)

The chance that you succeed in protecting yourself with a knife in case of an unexpected attack???

Go volunteer as a bad guy for K9 training, even well trained pro's are bitten at least 3 times before they can "stab" the dog. and that are expected attacks, with the knive in the hand, not unecpected attacks while riding your bike with the knife well secured in a cover!


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Nothing's impossible said:


> Cat, You didn't bother reading it uh?
> 
> The girl (probably spraying against the wind) blinded herself as much as her oponent


Actually I was just pointing out that pepper spray ( used with common sense ) can be a very good deterrent and a very good ( non-lethal ) defensive weapon. If you doubt this just ask a police person. ( yeah, on a windy day might not be the best thing to use )

Anyway, just the other day I was walking through REI and noticed they have the bear spray. I really don't know if it works but I'd feel better having it than not having it if I were in bear country. Some of that with some "bear bangers" ( those loud noise makers that sound like a shotgun going off ) and I'm good.

Not to mention the spray could be used against a vicious dog or nut-job person who was threatening you. I also forgot to mention that using your bike as a shield also can work as a last minute defense. Don't know how well it would work against a bear but against a smaller animal like a dog can be very intimidating.

As far as knifes go, if something was chewing on my arm or leg I'd feel better knowing I had a fighting chance if I had a knife on my person ( or already in my hand ). Don't think I'd use it against a human though.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

Nothing's impossible said:


> Trailnut, i can imagine a lot of stuff that I would rather carry than a fixed blade knive.
> 
> If you believe that it is useful to carry one, go ahead, as I told before, the chance that you ever will use it for self defence is rather small, but it makes a cool toothpick ;-)
> 
> ...


OK, i'll play along...

...after the 3rd bite, if you don't have a knife than what?
if you're dead then you are at peace, but if you're still mobile then you must carry on to protect life around you...I'd prefer have a knife rather than resort to my unarmed training, that, I may guess, could be more extensive then the average cop in my fair city.

the end really does not matter, but that at the moment of crisis if you've done the right thing then that is how you demonstrate love.

having the courage to prepare shows respect and gratitude which may then brings luck or more thoughtful risk management.

have a good one.


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

nevermind, not worth it


----------



## bikerider2 (Nov 9, 2011)

TrailNut said:


> OK, i'll play along: after the 3rd bite, if you don't a have a knife than what?
> if you're dead then you are at peace, but if you're still mobile then you are must carry on to protect life around you...I'd rather have a knife rather than resort to my unarmed training, that, I may guess, could be more extensive then the the average cop in my fair city.
> 
> the end really does not matter, but that at the moment of crisis if you've done the right thing then that is how you demonstrate love.
> ...


TrailNut, I fall into the boyscout mindset of always being prepared and always carry a pocket knife, not just for protection but also I'm injured and have to spend the night trailside. Just curious why you want a fixed blade. The folders will do everything you need it too except for maybe baton wood. Spyderco's are nice as they clip into your pocket on your baggy shorts or somewhere on your camelbak. If you must go fixed look at Esee Izula. Different configurations to fit your needs.


----------



## extremebikeguy (Nov 28, 2012)

bikerider2 said:


> ...If you must go fixed look at Esee Izula. Different configurations to fit your needs.


another ESEE fan :thumbsup:


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

bikerider2 said:


> TrailNut, I fall into the boyscout mindset of always being prepared and always carry a pocket knife, not just for protection but also I'm injured and have to spend the night trailside. Just curious why you want a fixed blade. The folders will do everything you need it too except for maybe baton wood. Spyderco's are nice as they clip into your pocket on your baggy shorts or somewhere on your camelbak. If you must go fixed look at Esee Izula. Different configurations to fit your needs.


i have folder, but in the woods i'd prefer a fixed: 4" blade for biking.

dirt can get in the action of a lock-folder and the fixed knife has the simpler presentation and better grip. if in the extremely unlikely event that trouble comes, fraction of a second might be just enough to sort things out. clip-ons can wiggle out, I have lost a Benchmade that way in a trail while riding, and a lock-folder in a sheath is secure, but might feel too slow to access while riding alone in the wooded canyons, at night, with eucalyptus trees creaking in the rainy wind and when my usually brave dog yipes out loud to run closer to my bike...in times like that details matter more....


----------



## zorro (Feb 26, 2007)

Nothing's impossible said:


> :skep:
> 
> So, With a few thousand lumen of light you are blinding the couple on its way to "the causy spot", irritated the guy reaches for his extreme bright torch to let you now you are blinding them. Now he notices the dive knive strapped on your leg which makes you look rather shady.
> :drumroll:
> ...


That's literally the most emoticons I've seen in one posting.


----------



## Nothing's impossible (Mar 5, 2012)

TrailNut said:


> OK, i'll play along...
> 
> ...after the 3rd bite, if you don't have a knife than what?
> if you're dead then you are at peace, but if you're still mobile then you must carry on to protect life around you...I'd rather have a knife rather than resort to my unarmed training, that, I may guess, could be more extensive then the average cop in my fair city.
> ...


You are not playing along, you are hardly reading what I say

The chance of being attacked by wildlife or humans during a nightride is nihil compared to other risks. There is nothing against being prepared, but you prepare for something that is verry unlikely to happen.

Like most preppers, you are mainly scaring the **** out of yourself with worst case scenarios.

The trees make noise at night, so what, are the trees falling by the dosens if you ride in between them? Darkness doesn't make trees fall, wind does.

Your dog makes some noise and runs back to you. You go for the worst scenario: There is a dangerous animal in the forrest, but a porcupine, a snake, a few antbites,... 
There are a million more plausible and unthreathening explanations than: There is a mountain lion sneaking upon me.

If you hear a noise in the forest, stop, kill you light and take out your camera. If you have a shot from a mountainlion or something similar in the wild, even a blurred picture or shabby video images will travel around the world, if you manage to get a good image you might make a nice amount of money!

There is a reason why people who picture wildlife are camping silently for days in a row in a camouflaged hut.


----------



## Spec7 (May 3, 2000)

All I could think of while reading the emoticon filled post was this reminds me of something I would have expected to see in the movie "City Slickers" and that it sounded like an ubanite's worst case scenario.

Having grown up in the mountains of East TN and more specifically in an area where trouble bears from the Smoky Mountains are relocated to; I see no issue in carrying both a folding knife and a fixed blade if it makes you feel safer. I've probably encountered 50 or 60 black bears in the last 10 years and most of them are not afraid of humans. Screech whistles? Don't work. Bike over your head and screaming at the bear? Doesn't work. Throwing sticks and rocks at the bear? Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't phase them, once had one lower its shoulders like it was going to charge. Six and a half years ago, there was a little girl killed by bears in the same area where I've seen most of the bears. Bear attack

Similar issues with feral hogs down here too and those things are just plain stupid, anger filled, slabs of bacon. A running chainsaw wont scare them out of a charge towards you, but a handful of twigs, leaves, and dirt sends them scattering. These are also some of the reasons that I *do not* under any avoidable circumstances ride solo at night down here.

Normally though I just carry a Leatherman. I stopped carrying the fixed blade when I realized that the Leatherman did all the cutting I needed and I sure hell did not want to be close enough to a bear or feral hog to have to defend myself with it.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Spec7 said:


> I've probably encountered 50 or 60 black bears in the last 10 years and most of them are not afraid of humans. Screech whistles? Don't work. Bike over your head and screaming at the bear? Doesn't work. Throwing sticks and rocks at the bear? Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't phase them, once had one lower its shoulders like it was going to charge. Six and a half years ago, there was a little girl killed by bears in the same area where I've seen most of the bears. Bear attack


That's a horrible bear story. No doubt that bear had some abnormality to make it behave that way. Everyone's worse nightmare. Scary as hell when animals don't behave as usual.

Sounds like the other bears in your area are quite used to humans. Need I say, that is not a good thing if you plan to be out in the woods. When bears have no fear of humans anything can happen.

If I was riding in your neck of the woods I don't think I'd feel safe unless I was packing a Magnum ( and was trained to use it ). Since that is likely illegal , like you I wouldn't want to ride alone. ( besides I don't own a gun and have no plans on buying one )


----------



## Nothing's impossible (Mar 5, 2012)

Spec, it was indeed the scenario of some old b-movie, but I don't remember the title

If i would live in an area with relocated bears and misbehaving half domesticated wild hogs, i might reconsider solo nightrides as well, on the other hand, spotting a wild bear in the wild at night is also tempting, not as tempting as spotting a mountain lion though!


The bear attack, as strangely as it may sound, the bad news even reached Belgium, so it must be a rather rare event, a six years old might look like an easy prey, an adult man??

And if you succeed in killing a bear or a mountain lion or a wild hog or even a bewildered dog with a knife, the lokal tribe will honour you around the campfire for the centuries to come


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

Nothing's impossible said:


> You are not playing along, you are hardly reading what I say
> 
> The chance of being attacked by wildlife or humans during a nightride is nihil compared to other risks. There is nothing against being prepared, but you prepare for something that is verry unlikely to happen.
> 
> ...


you're assuming that "...scaring the **** out of yourself..." which is nonsense.
acknowledging possibility, however remote, is not the same as being scared.
carrying a handy small knife is kind of like "paying" insurance and giving attention to risks.
let's move away on this subject that i will gladly not agree with you.

my iPhone's neat camera, but a waterproof pocket-sized camera with optical zoom lens & flash is a not a bad ideal, but now we're getting into unnecessary luxuries...

as a Boy Scouts leader, in my early teens, I was taught and taught others to never ever go into the woods without a knife, compass, and a fire-starter flint: never (my handle bar mounts a compass bell, BTW).

it's raining here. flowing in the muddy trails in a rainy night's a kind of dirty and dangerous fun I relish.

enjoy.

.


----------



## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

Bears...no problem, forget the bear spray, pot and pans, bright lights and rock. Just ride out with your partner but be sure you bring your fastest bike! Keep in mind you're not trying to out run the bear....just your partner 

On a more serious note: I do bring my Taser C3 which shootout about 15ft worth of probe. I also carry my Fox pepper spray which I have practice using in the backyard with all my older expired spray. My neighbor just hates me when I do that because the smell is overwhelming. However my best policy is avoid confrontation if at all possible and de-escalate the situation, yes even with animals but luckily we don't have much here but maybe mountain lion depending on where we go. So far that worked for me and opefully stay that way.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

*bear had some abnormality?*



Cat-man-do said:


> That's a horrible bear story. No doubt that bear had some abnormality to make it behave that way. Everyone's worse nightmare. Scary as hell when animals don't behave as usual.
> 
> Sounds like the other bears in your area are quite used to humans. Need I say, that is not a good thing if you plan to be out in the woods. When bears have no fear of humans anything can happen.
> 
> If I was riding in your neck of the woods I don't think I'd feel safe unless I was packing a Magnum ( and was trained to use it ). Since that is likely illegal , like you I wouldn't want to ride alone. ( besides I don't own a gun and have no plans on buying one )


the best approaching to thinking about bears is to remove fear or assumptions about them: factually, black bears have been known to track down and kill humans for "supper."

I had given a warning shot, a 44 Remington Magnum from a (legally compliant) revolver, up in the air once to scare off a black bear too close to our tent at night, by a lake,...that black bear didn't even notice the loud report, though my ears were ringing and i had to hope that the heavy (320 grain) bullet did not land on spot that'll harm life. Earlier, we had banged on tin-pots, to no effect. We spilled white gas to re-light our campfire with pile of sticks we had saved from the morning: that gave us some space. Glad we had our dog to provide sentry or else I'd had been up awake all night as the bear kept circling our tent (that had no food or soap anything we can imagine that might give off an "attractive" order).

Personally, i'd rather deal with big cats or bears any time than be near humans withe AR style rifles with attitudes.

now skunks at night along the trail, they do scare me quite a bit! ohhhh my, do my heart race! such sighting makes helmet light priceless tools of prevention..


----------



## Spec7 (May 3, 2000)

Nothing's impossible said:


> The bear attack, as strangely as it may sound, the bad news even reached Belgium, so it must be a rather rare event, a six years old might look like an easy prey, an adult man??


It was indeed a rare event. I think there have been two other deaths by bear attack since then in the Cherokee National Forest further north from me. Those were adults who lost their lives thus making it less of a media sensation. Still something to keep in mind in this neck of the woods though. CCP's are now legal in the national forest so you can carry if so endorsed and I am, but I never do on the bike simply due to I don't feel the need for it or want the extra weight. Backpacking, I always carry though since a hiker is slower moving & more easily stalked.


----------



## Nothing's impossible (Mar 5, 2012)

Trailnut, this is Western Europe, there is no weaponlobby around trying to create reasons to justify carrying arms.
As a result we think in a different way!

A question about which fixed blade to carry would turn up on a diving forum (to cut ropes in case you are entagled in one and panic, not to defend oneself from shark attacks), but nobody here will take your question, posted in a light topic on an internet forum, serious. 

Spec, 3 killings in 6 years, that bear relocation progra must become a political issue?


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Spec7 said:


> It was indeed a rare event. I think there have been two other deaths by bear attack since then in the Cherokee National Forest further north from me. Those were adults who lost their lives thus making it less of a media sensation. Still something to keep in mind in this neck of the woods though. CCP's are now legal in the national forest so you can carry if so endorsed and I am, but I never do on the bike simply due to I don't feel the need for it or want the extra weight. Backpacking, I always carry though since a hiker is slower moving & more easily stalked.


Some years ago I did a quick search on "death by bears". Now it seems the death toll has increased, much more than I previously thought. While it is still rare, it happens. Food for thought if you ride in remote areas with a known bear population.  Wiki link -fatal bear attacks

Just out of curiosity I wonder "how many people have had a dangerous encounter with a bear ( been threatened ) and then escaped. I'd also like to know how many people have had to use their "Bear spray" and had it work. :yesnod: I know there are books on the subject of how to defend/prevent bear attacks. Might just pickup an e-book on it if it isn't to much money.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Nothing's impossible said:


> Trailnut, this is Western Europe, there is no weaponlobby around trying to create reasons to justify carrying arms.
> As a result we think in a different way!
> 
> A question about which fixed blade to carry would turn up on a diving forum (to cut ropes in case you are entagled in one and panic, not to defend oneself from shark attacks), but nobody here will take your question, posted in a light topic on an internet forum, serious.


@Nothing's impossible;

Your comments on this thread are contrary the typically informative and civil nature of the lights and night riding forum. Others on this forum did take the OP seriously and replied with suggestions pertinant to the topic. The topic being advice on what to carry, not should I carry. While my personal thoughts on the whether to carry a weapon while riding lie close to yours, it is not my place to attempt to impose my belief on another. The OP knows he wants to carry. It's rude and not your place to tell him his concern is groundless.


----------



## Spec7 (May 3, 2000)

Vancbiker said:


> @Nothing's impossible;
> 
> Your comments on this thread are contrary the typically informative and civil nature of the lights and night riding forum. Others on this forum did take the OP seriously and replied with suggestions pertinant to the topic. The topic being advice on what to carry, not should I carry. While my personal thoughts on the whether to carry a weapon while riding lie close to yours, it is not my place to attempt to impose my belief on another. The OP knows he wants to carry. It's rude and not your place to tell him his concern is groundless.


:thumbsup:
I generally try to avoid calling anyone out but, he did specifically ask and request:
"Got any suggestions?
please keep your comments towards something useful, non-judgemental."

I find it fairly disrespectful to totally ignore everything he stated in his opening remarks; IMHO.


----------



## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Cat-- forget the bear spray. If you actually need to use it, the bear is too close already. Pick up a can of hornet spray instead. Just as much of a deterrent, but it sprays at a cool 20+ feet.


----------



## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

I too live and ride in Lion Country, and that is the one animal that I think about from time to time. Having said that, I will say the chance on an encounter with a lion would be super rare. I suspect a Bear spray is pretty effective at deterring an animal, or a human for that matter, and I know people whom carry bear spray on their bike mounted to the frame or on their person, in a manner that would allow them to grab it pretty quickly. 

As for the knife, I NEVER go into the wilderness without my Emerson knife, a lighter, a whistle, my Surefire flashlight, as well as the light on my bike. These couple items allow one to make fire, possibly kill dinner, and be able to see what the hell I'm doing. The whistle is probably one of the most underrated safety items one can carry.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

wschruba said:


> Cat-- forget the bear spray. If you actually need to use it, the bear is too close already. Pick up a can of hornet spray instead. Just as much of a deterrent, but it sprays at a cool 20+ feet.


Not sure I can take that advice. Not to mention I don't know how the chemicals in a can of hornet spray would effect a bear.

I just finished looking at a rather informative website. It also includes a brief video on bear spray and explains not only what it does to the bear but how best to use it.

*@trailnut;* I guess you didn't understand what I meant when I said the bear probably had "an abnormality". Bears like any animal ( or humans for that matter ) can get diseases that are very unpleasant. They can also injure themselves. These kind of things can effect the disposition of the bear. Nothing more dangerous than an injured, sickened and hungry bear ( who is not having a good day ).

As I write this it brings to mind an old memory. When I was a kid I had to walk past a house on a regular basis that had a dog that used to run out ( no fence ) and bark threateningly at me every time I walked past. Most times he never got within 25 ft. of me so basically I just ignored him. On one particular day I was walking past the house when suddenly the dog came bursting out of nowhere ( no barking ) and tried to bite my leg. Immediately the dog ran away when I tried to defend myself. To say the least I was not happy. Later I found out that one of the kids living in the house shot the dog with a BB-gun just as I was walking by. The dog responded by attacking me...go figure. I only found out about this because the kid's mother apologized later when she saw me walking by a couple days later.

Lesson learned....animals do strange things when in pain or when mad. Sometimes animals just do strange things, period.


----------



## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> Not sure I can take that advice. Not to mention I don't know how the chemicals in a can of hornet spray would effect a bear.
> 
> I just finished looking at a rather informative website. It also includes a brief video on bear spray and explains not only what it does to the bear but how best to use it.


No worries mate, I've never had the [mis]fortune to have to use either, just passing on info from people who have


----------



## Nothing's impossible (Mar 5, 2012)

@vancbiker/spec, 

I did make some sugestions: Personal locator beacon in places out of cellphone reach, a leatherman or other multitool instead of a fixed blade,...

If someone that rides without helmet, gloves,... would pose the question: what kind of elbow protectors should I wear to increase my safety, I would probably say that he should think of wearing other protection first, and that long coton sleaves also protect against thorns without hindering the riding as much.


If nobody states that it is useless to take a fixed blade, people who come strolling around 'll get the impression that the whole MTBR community silently agrees that a fixed blade is a necessity on a solo night ride. And the next question will be: what is the best handgun to carry on a nightride,....


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Nothing's impossible said:


> ...If nobody states that it is useless to take a fixed blade, people who come strolling around 'll get the impression that the whole MTBR community silently agrees that a fixed blade is a necessity on a solo night ride. And the next question will be: what is the best handgun to carry on a nightride,....


You know people carry all kind's of junk on rides. I used to carry a typical pen knife but decided I really didn't need it for the type of riding I usual do. After reading this thread I've already decided that when I start to do remote mountainous rides again I will likely carry a nice folding knife and a can of bear spray...because you never know.

Here's ( another... ) old story from yesteryear that will make you think: While on vacation many years ago I was exploring a relatively unused mapped hunting area that I thought might provide some good trails ( remote area of WVa. ) This was back before GPS or internet access. Basically I was using maps and just looking for places to ride. Took me a while to find the trail head but I did and started my ride.

It turned out not to be such a great place to ride. Downed trees were like every 100 ft. or so but still it was my last day of vacation so I said "what the hey, go for it". About an hour later I reached a part of the trail where the map showed a stream crossing. Unfortunately the stream turned out to be more of a raging river due to the local rains that week. As I was pondering how and where to cross the stream ( the trail disappeared ) I stumbled upon someone who was camping. I carefully announced my presence and approached the tent which was right near the trail.

It turned out to be two young women camping. I made some small talk and explained I was looking for the way to cross the stream. That was when I noticed that one of the women was stirring something in a pot over a fire and was using _a rather large fixed blade knife._ This sent the unspoken message that they were not comfortable with my presence and I was certainly not comfortable after seeing that knife. I moved on a little ways past their camp site but soon found the stream was not going to be passable. I had to go back ( past their camp site )

_Now what if these people decided to come after me with a knife?_ Hey, knife girl didn't look like she was the kind of person who was afraid of anyone ( if you catch my drift ). 
I passed by their camp again and explained I was perhaps lost. This time I took a trail that the map showed as heading back. I prayed that it was going to be passable because it was getting dark and I would hate to have come up on Knife girl after dark. Luckily I found my way back.

Now the funny thing about this story is that after I started heading back I ran into a man hiking that was going the opposite direction. Since it was almost dark I told the guy that he should be headed back. He just laughed and said he had a flashlight and would be fine. I was going to tell him about Knife girl but I was so concerned for my own safety at that point that I cut the conversation short. I wanted to find the trail back before it got dark. I always wondered about that guy and what was going to happen when he ran into knife girl. Poor girls, they must of thought the area was like Grand Central station. :lol:....

The lesson learned is: You never know when you just might need a knife. Strange things can happen while out in the woods.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

*whistle*



trmn8er said:


> I too live and ride in Lion Country, and that is the one animal that I think about from time to time. Having said that, I will say the chance on an encounter with a lion would be super rare. I suspect a Bear spray is pretty effective at deterring an animal, or a human for that matter, and I know people whom carry bear spray on their bike mounted to the frame or on their person, in a manner that would allow them to grab it pretty quickly.
> 
> As for the knife, I NEVER go into the wilderness without my Emerson knife, a lighter, a whistle, my Surefire flashlight, as well as the light on my bike. These couple items allow one to make fire, possibly kill dinner, and be able to see what the hell I'm doing. The whistle is probably one of the most underrated safety items one can carry.


ahhh, good one: whistle!

Three of us used our whistles to coordinate search and rescue of a very young boy, Ronnie, around Barney Lake, elevation 9,500 within Mammoth, one early morning. Our (AT&T) cell phones did not have receiption, we had no CB-radios. Young Ronnie, barely old enough to walk, crawed out of his family's backpacking tent the the middle of the night. His desperate, in tears, request was met by tears of joy when we located and re-united that family.

Those orange whistles, from R.E.I., were instrumental in coordinating that search, spreading out without one of us getting lost ourselves.

I always have a whistle on my key chain, but now I'll be sure to have one in my saddle bag


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

being judiciously prepared is not the same as worrying. Matter of fact, being wisely and minimally prepared reduces worry, allowing more enjoyment.

Laird Hamilton, a professional surfer, adds weight to his mountain bike, at 90#,to get a better work out, just mention that for perspective. So, i'll gladly haul few extra ounces tools, inclusive of a steel knife, in addition to the three steel water bottle cages loaded with two 28 oz bottles for my dog and one for me.


----------



## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

Nothing's impossible said:


> :skep:
> 
> So, With a few thousand lumen of light you are blinding the couple on its way to "the causy spot", irritated the guy reaches for his extreme bright torch to let you now you are blinding them. Now he notices the dive knive strapped on your leg which makes you look rather shady.
> :drumroll:
> ...


LOL! I don't know why someone would post about which knife to carry when night riding in a forum about bike lights.


----------



## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

TrailNut said:


> ahhh, good one: whistle!
> 
> Three of us used our whistles to coordinate search and rescue of a very young boy, Ronnie, around Barney Lake, elevation 9,500 within Mammoth, one early morning. Our (AT&T) cell phones did not have receiption, we had no CB-radios. Young Ronnie, barely old enough to walk, crawed out of his family's backpacking tent the the middle of the night. His desperate, in tears, request was met by tears of joy when we located and re-united that family.
> 
> ...


Trailnut. You started the post by mentioning you don't have AT&T reception where you ride. And now you mention it again here. Maybe you should switch to Verizon instead of getting a knife? Can you hear me now? There are so many other things you should add to your preparation list if you think you might need a knife on a ride at some point. It sounds like you are preparing for potential hairy adventures, so you have to taket his seriously. By the way, do you carry the knife with you when you ride during the day?

Bearing in mind that you might be involved in a wild animal attack, do you carry a first aid kit with you at all times when you ride? A warm blanket in case you get stuck in the woods a night for some reason is also a good idea. How about extra food and hydration? At least an extra gallon of water. How about a GPS? Spare battery and/or light for your main light? How many tubes do you carry? And patching kit for fixing flats or if you run out of spare tubes? How about something to fix a ripped sidewall? Maybe a spare tire even? Do you carry a spare derailleur hanger (I bend a few every year)? Or a spare derailleur? Last winter, on the coldest day of the year I went for a ride and my derailleur just snapped right off (it was almost 3 years old I might add). How about extra chain links (and dont' forget the chain tool). What would you do if you blow out your fork? It happened to me once on a ride in 2005 (needless to say, it was the end of my ride, but luckily it was in daylight). Do you carry a rain jacket if there's a possiblity of rain in the forecast? Do you tell a few people at least of where you are riding and when you should be back (so they can come looking for you if you do not show up at the prescribed time)? Other than that, it sounds like you have it covered. How about a long rope and some other climbing equipment if you end up going over a cliff or some steep hill and can't ride your way out? Maybe some flares too, you would be spotted much easier with those. Then again, I don't know if carrying a flare gun would be legal. So many other things that could potentially go wrong at least once in a while realistically, you should maybe think of pulling a trailer with all your emergency and required precautionary equipment.

Too make things easier I would recommend switching to Verizon. Also carry a spare phone (in case you fall and break your main phone) with an additional spare battery (also make sure your phone batteries are charged up before you head out for your nightly adventure) for each phone.

Bottom line, I still recommend Verizon.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

blackbean said:


> LOL! I don't know why someone would post about which knife to carry when night riding in a forum about bike lights.


Oh, I don't know. It's not like it is completely off topic. People carry different things when they ride. Night or day sometimes it's the same stuff. What you carry will depend on where you are at and what conditions are present ( or what you might expect will be needed most , all things considered. ).


----------



## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> Oh, I don't know. It's not like it is completely off topic. People carry different things when they ride. Night or day sometimes it's the same stuff. What you carry will depend on where you are at and what conditions are present ( or what you might expect will be needed most , all things considered. ).


But the point is, this should not just be an issue of riding at night. I can see many more things you should rather think of carrying than a knife in almost all cases. Think of all the things you could possibly carry in the event something that hardly ever goes wrong, does. I would think of carrying a knife to cut stuff (like branches to clear a trail, or zipties, etc.), but not for self defense. Night riding is an adventure enough as is, no reason to hype it like it's a reality tv show. I find it very pretentious.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Nothing's impossible said:


> And the next question will be: what is the best handgun to carry on a nightride,....


Been asked and discussed on MTBR regularly for years. It's an OK question too IMO. Even though I own handguns, I never carry while riding because I do not care to. I do respect anyone's right and DESIRE to carry whatever they feel neccessary to be comfortable in the outdoors.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

blackbean said:


> Trailnut. You started the post by mentioning you don't have AT&T reception where you ride. And now you mention it again here. Maybe you should switch to Verizon instead of getting a knife? Can you hear me now? There are so many other things you should add to your preparation list if you think you might need a knife on a ride at some point. It sounds like you are preparing for potential hairy adventures, so you have to taket his seriously. By the way, do you carry the knife with you when you ride during the day?
> 
> Bearing in mind that you might be involved in a wild animal attack, do you carry a first aid kit with you at all times when you ride? A warm blanket in case you get stuck in the woods a night for some reason is also a good idea. How about extra food and hydration? At least an extra gallon of water. How about a GPS? Spare battery and/or light for your main light? How many tubes do you carry? And patching kit for fixing flats or if you run out of spare tubes? How about something to fix a ripped sidewall? Maybe a spare tire even? Do you carry a spare derailleur hanger (I bend a few every year)? Or a spare derailleur? Last winter, on the coldest day of the year I went for a ride and my derailleur just snapped right off (it was almost 3 years old I might add). How about extra chain links (and dont' forget the chain tool). What would you do if you blow out your fork? It happened to me once on a ride in 2005 (needless to say, it was the end of my ride, but luckily it was in daylight). Do you carry a rain jacket if there's a possiblity of rain in the forecast? Do you tell a few people at least of where you are riding and when you should be back (so they can come looking for you if you do not show up at the prescribed time)? Other than that, it sounds like you have it covered. How about a long rope and some other climbing equipment if you end up going over a cliff or some steep hill and can't ride your way out? Maybe some flares too, you would be spotted much easier with those. Then again, I don't know if carrying a flare gun would be legal. So many other things that could potentially go wrong at least once in a while realistically, you should maybe think of pulling a trailer with all your emergency and required precautionary equipment.
> 
> ...


no, usually not during the day, but might be a good ideal for a folder in its leather belt sheath, since my folders on a few ounces. Once, two 90# poodles were fighting my dog, but the, two vicious dogs split off when I arrived, ready to make contact...

rest of your suggestions are amusing, but not useful.

aside from the lights at night, I carry: "flat kit", one multi-tool with chain breaker, 3 h2o bottles, h'bar mounted bell w/compass, and maybe a bananna. I'll add whistle & a tiny lighter now. If I'm prepping for a XC race I haul less. all that with out a pack.

When I was leading a youth training ride then, being Wilderness 1st Aid & CPR/AED Certified, I carry a camel-pack with a FirstAid kit that does have a blanket.

and no rope, not even at Downieville, Bear, Mt, or Tahoe: nope.

I know that Verizon's better for coverage, but I host a family plan...and not everyone wants to switch...including my self, as I like the rollover minutes and multi-tasking feature. besides, cell-phone for phoning a 'friend" and may not much useful during the contact.


----------



## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

TrailNut said:


> no, usually not during the day, but might be a good ideal for a folder in its leather belt sheath, since my folders on a few ounces. Once, two 90# poodles were fighting my dog, but the, two vicious dogs split off when I arrived, ready to make contact...
> 
> rest of your suggestions are amusing, but not useful.
> 
> ...


No offense man. Good luck and hopefully you never have to use it.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

Vancbiker said:


> Been asked and discussed on MTBR regularly for years. It's an OK question too IMO. Even though I own handguns, I never carry while riding because I do not care to. I do respect anyone's right and DESIRE to carry whatever they feel neccessary to be comfortable in the outdoors.


exactly, as all that applies to me also.


----------



## Nothing's impossible (Mar 5, 2012)

Trailnut, did you have a look at what a plb is? 

If you encounter a bad bear of a bad guy, you might get pretty scratched up, to scratched up to make a phone call, but ok to push the plb button!

I guess the device helped more people out of troubles than knives!


Cat, why carry a gun? take all your lights and vaporise the bad guys


----------



## mtbRevolution (Aug 10, 2012)

Vancbiker said:


> Been asked and discussed on MTBR regularly for years. It's an OK question too IMO. Even though I own handguns, I never carry while riding because I do not care to. I do respect anyone's right and DESIRE to carry whatever they feel neccessary to be comfortable in the outdoors.


Fully agree with you here. Respect other's ideas and choices. The title of this forum is Lights *and Night Riding*. The threads in this forum should apply to lights, and anything related to night riding, including personal security, survival tips, related equipment and tools etc which can help make night riding a better experience for all.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

*...and Night Riding*



Nothing's impossible said:


> Trailnut, did you have a look at what a plb is?
> 
> If you encounter a bad bear of a bad guy, you might get pretty scratched up, to scratched up to make a phone call, but ok to push the plb button!
> 
> ...


what the heck is a "plb?" I see now. how could a PLB prevent or minimize anything other than being rescued, after the "fact". Yes, was thinking of buying the Spot device for backpacking/over-night trips, not for MTB-ing. SPOT Satellite GPS Messenger

seem like some urban dwellers have an irrational fear of weapons.

to "Nothing's impossible," nothing is impossible, indeed: you may only get one chance to save your life or to alleviate someone's suffering or to save life, however impossible that may seem, in front of a keyboard. am I having this forum chat with a very young person with little primitive outdoors experiences?

have you ever heard of a government service worker, a police person or a ranger, that ever stopped a felony by human or violence by animal as it was happening to one person? And if so, please share so we may marvel at how truly rare such an event was.

and how likely would a police officer or a ranger get to a solo night rider in the woods in time to stop an attack? at least if you die fighting you might be able to mark that animal (or human) so that a cop or a ranger can track them down and prevent such a repeat occurrence.

i don't expect any problems while riding at night: if i did I would have stayed away from the trails. the biggest threat comes for taking an awkward fall, but I wear clear-lens eye protection and am comfortable taking air/high falls.

enjoy.


----------



## Spec7 (May 3, 2000)

I know these questions were in jest, but I do find it a good idea to be able to take care of myself with no one to help me. I find it an even better idea to be able to help someone else out too. Having bailed several riders and hikers alike out of the mountains over the years, you could call me over prepared possibly and yes my pack is a little heavy, but on my rides or hikes *everyone goes home*.

_Bearing in mind that you might be involved in a wild animal attack, do you carry a first aid kit with you at all times when you ride?_ 
Yep, CPR/AED/1st aid for the professional rescuer certified and a small kit that's been used multiple times. Adventure Medical kit
_
A warm blanket in case you get stuck in the woods a night for some reason is also a good idea. _
Yep, a Space blanket. Goes in the first aid kit. I'm planning to get some Tyvek and paracord for a micro bivy too.

_How about extra food and hydration? _
Always

_At least an extra gallon of water._
Estimated ride time determines that. Katadyn Hiker Pro water filter is in my gear stash at home if I think I might need it, never needed it on the bike though.

_How about a GPS? 
_Yep, Garmin GPSmap62s & an updated paper map if I'm riding somewhere new.

_Spare battery and/or light for your main light? 
_Sort of. A back up light and a Surefire G2L

_How many tubes do you carry? _
One tube & a hand pump

_And patching kit for fixing flats or if you run out of spare tubes?_
2 kits, one pre-glued and one vulcanizing kit.

_How about something to fix a ripped sidewall? _
Black electrical tape and cut out the sides of a smooth plastic coke bottle to cover and tape over the slash. You can use a dollar bill if you cant find a bottle.

_Maybe a spare tire even? 
_Nope, I've seen it done though. Hike-a-bike time and I'm well experienced in it. (Anyone remember the old green Michelin "Wildgripper" elites that would dry rot almost overnight?) Sidi shoes are pretty terrible for hike-a-biking!

_Do you carry a spare derailleur hanger (I bend a few every year)?
_No, I ride a rigid single speed. No need of this.

_Or a spare derailleur?_
Nope, see the question above. Know how to turn your bike into a single speed if you need to in order to get off a trail. This includes being able to stop or minimize rear suspension travel, since most full suspension systems result in some amount of chain growth while active.

_How about extra chain links (and dont' forget the chain tool). 
_Yep, and a couple of KMC quick links.

_What would you do if you blow out your fork?_
I kinda did that already since I'm on a rigid single speed. Happened to me too on an old Manitou fork. I locked it out and kept riding.

_Do you carry a rain jacket if there's a possiblity of rain in the forecast?_
Yep, standard gear this time of year.

_Do you tell a few people at least of where you are riding and when you should be back (so they can come looking for you if you do not show up at the prescribed time)? 
_ Yep, everyone should.

_How about a long rope and some other climbing equipment if you end up going over a cliff or some steep hill and can't ride your way out?
_I know its just a joke, but seriously ride within your limits and be situationally aware to prevent this.

_Maybe some flares too, you would be spotted much easier with those._ 
How about waterproof matches to not only build a fire for warmth and light, but to help you be spotted as well?

And on the topic of personal locator beacons; those things are supposed to be used like a tourniquet; the last thing you do because you have no other marginally viable way out. Personally, the last thing I want to do is to turn my problems into a rescue agencies problems for the simple fact of my failure to prepare. PLB's have their merits though, don't get me wrong.


----------



## Nothing's impossible (Mar 5, 2012)

Trailnut, About my age, I still feel verry young, but I have the feeling that I am older then you expect!

I live in western Europe and the closest wild bears are over 1000 miles from where I live, i do cycle between wild boars and dear area's pretty often. I've been cycling in pretty remote area's, alone, with my wife, I've been on kayaktrips, sailtrips,... but there are bigger globe trotters than me!

I have no clue why that would matter though? This is not about boosting but about facts and common sense, i see some important points against carrying a fixed blade knife:
Mind, i'm not arguiing against you as a person, I argue against the fact that you think a fixed blade knive would be a good thing to take on a mountainbikeride!

The main argument is about common sense: How big is the chance that, during a nightride, you will get into a problem that you can solve with a weapon? 

So, as said before, for me there are a 1000 things that make more sense to carry than a fixed blade knive, spec7 and others listed some, depending on the circomstances you might take other stuff, but that would be such a big and heavy pack that there wouldn't be much mountainbike fun left! 

In general I like to ride as light as possible, I take what I think I'll need most and most urgently, in general I take as little as possible just without being reckless. 

If you take extra weigth because you want a better training, that is a rather stupid reason to carry a knive: ride faster, longer, climb steeper hills on more challinging grounds,... way more fun then hauling stuff that you 'll probably never need but that makes you feel like a real man! 


Another reason against a weapon on a mountainbikeride 

Why go on a solo nightride in a "dangerous" area? 
Because you are adventerous (or because you want others to see you as adventerous), ...

It gives a thrill.

Now what makes something into an adventure? 

A trip becomes an adventure the moment something can go wrong, and the more that can go wrong, the bigger the adventure becomes.
If you take stuff to solve problems you decrease the amount of adventure, it's the same as making a jouney more easy!

Adventure is on a continuum, and its different for everybody.
On one side you can do stupid, reckless or selfdestructive things, and on the other side you have the boring stuff and the schizofrenic prepping. What 's boring for one is adventurous or reckless for the other. 

So, you have to find a match between what is reckless and what is safe but boring, if you feel reckless you go for a nightride with hardly any gear, riding on challenging grounds, knowing that if things go wrong, and there is a possibility that they will go wrong, you are in big problems. 
If you, just in case, take a whole rescue equipement for 2 for a night short ride on your own, you might want to talk to someone! 


You need to find some balance, take as little as possible to have a nimble ride, but without being reckless considering the environment. in such case you want to leave useless stuff behind.



If you are a diver, a fixed blade makes sense, not to defend against sharks but to free yourself in case you 're entangled in a rope and start to pannic.

For a mountainbiker???

I cariied strange things on cycling journeys, but never a fixed blade!
the strangest thing I carried on a few travels is probably a short, blunt pointed machete, not as a weapon (i kept it well hidden to avoid problems) but it is so multipurpose that I used it several times a day: digging holes to burry dirt or faeces, dig a water trench around the shelter, dig up stones to secure the shelter, dig a firepit, chop wood, poke in the fire, rearange the kettle on the fire, cut vegetation, hammer a hex key into an inbus hole after destroying the inbus pattern with a worn inbus key,...
But in the airport, I always had to do some explanation about what was in my luggage!


So, don't take it personally, but for me the fixed blade on the mountainbike, its a bit like the ugly boy that carries a condom in his pocket "just in case". A box of peppermints would be a better idea, and that one time in 10 lifetimes that it might come in handy it 's been in his pocket for so long that it tears when he rolls it on, he justs forgets he has it, or the girl tells him that it's nicer without


----------



## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

Spec7 said:


> I know these questions were in jest, but I do find it a good idea to be able to take care of myself with no one to help me. I find it an even better idea to be able to help someone else out too. Having bailed several riders and hikers alike out of the mountains over the years, you could call me over prepared possibly and yes my pack is a little heavy, but on my rides or hikes *everyone goes home*.
> 
> _Bearing in mind that you might be involved in a wild animal attack, do you carry a first aid kit with you at all times when you ride?_
> Yep, CPR/AED/1st aid for the professional rescuer certified and a small kit that's been used multiple times. Adventure Medical kit
> ...


Most of that stuff was said in jest. I really see no need for most of it where I ride. If I had to carry and prepare all that stuff for every ride, I would only ride once a month. I ride for fun and fitness, not adventure, and I ride anywhere from 2-5 times a week. I see it as a ride, not a trip or a tour. 99% of the people I ride with, talk to or have seen riding rides with the exact same basic kit as I do (hydration, calories, toolkit, patch-kit, chain links and tube) and a GPS (mostly used for gathering speed/time data). I carry the same stuff for night rides as I do for daytime rides, except for 2 lights. I have cellphone reception in 99% of the places I go.

But I guess Trailnut is new to cycling.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

blackbean said:


> Most of that stuff was said in jest. I really see no need for most of it where I ride. If I had to carry and prepare all that stuff for every ride, I would only ride once a month. I ride for fun and fitness, not adventure, and I ride anywhere from 2-5 times a week. I see it as a ride, not a trip or a tour. 99% of the people I ride with, talk to or have seen riding rides with the exact same basic kit as I do (hydration, calories, toolkit, patch-kit, chain links and tube) and a GPS (mostly used for gathering speed/time data). I carry the same stuff for night rides as I do for daytime rides, except for 2 lights. I have cellphone reception in 99% of the places I go.
> 
> But I guess Trailnut is new to cycling.


you've guessed wrong: way wrong; however, ironically, you are also right on.


----------



## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

TrailNut said:


> you've guessed wrong: way wrong.


You're not a newbie?


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

blackbean said:


> You're not a newbie?


well, i try to maintain a "Beginners' Mind."

I have raced XC for years and have assisted in coaching XC racers for years. My 1998 steel HT, that I am the sole owner, but is not my 1st MTB, has dings and dents from numerous crashes I've fondly enjoyed and I have completely replaced all its parts, now on the 3rd set of drive train on that particular bike in my stable.

so, yes, I am indeed a MTB "newbie."


----------



## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

TrailNut said:


> well, i try to maintain a "Beginners' Mind."
> 
> I have raced XC for years and have assisted in coaching XC racers for years. My 1998 steel HT, I am the sole owner, but is not my 1st MTB, has many dings and dents from numerous crashes I've fondly enjoyed and I have completely replaced all it's parts, on the 3rd set of drive train on that bike in my stable.
> 
> so, yes, I am indeed a MTB "newbie."


I would def not call you a noob :nono: So I guess riding in the canyons where you have no cell reception is something new? Or riding there at night is new? Maybe you're a 'canyon' noob or a 'night-canyon' noob????


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

I've been night riding in my canyons, since the last Century.
I alternate with my crmo HT, al. rigid SS (my "mud bike"), and plush FS.

the only question i had in our "...and Night Riding" forum was to switch to a 4" or 5" fixed knife instead of my 3.9" folders.

I'm Watching couple of Benchmade fixed knives on Ebay, but would also like a Fallkniven with a wood handle...


----------



## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

Pedal faster.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

irishpitbull said:


> Pedal faster.


:thumbsup:"Pedal faster" is THE answer to everything. Seriously.


----------



## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

TrailNut said:


> I've been night riding in my canyons, since the last Century.
> I alternate with my crmo HT, al. rigid SS (my "mud bike"), and plush FS.
> 
> the only question i had in our "...and Night Riding" forum was to switch to a 4" or 5" fixed knife instead of my 3.9" folders.
> ...


I like you Trailnut. You're aaaiht! Do you also wear a wingsuit and parachute when you fly first class?


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

blackbean said:


> I like you Trailnut. You're aaaiht! Do you also wear a wingsuit and parachute when you fly first class?


my alias name does contain "nuts." Some may have allergic reactions to truths.

what a fly ideal. Then I'd want a pair, (main & backup) for each in my group.

I do wear my horse-butt Alden dress boots that can not come off on its own... Did not want to step over sharp bones, metal, & glass bare footed.

Some dead dude that worked on the ground breaking Manhattan Project supposed to have said, "Genius has limits, but stupidity does not."

Ride well: We like it b/c it's dirty & dangerous.


----------



## Spec7 (May 3, 2000)

blackbean said:


> Most of that stuff was said in jest. I really see no need for most of it where I ride.


Good point and I should have prefaced my novel with "When I go for long rides way back in the national forest". When I'm riding the more urban trails around Chattanooga I do like you do; just the basics since I'm at most a mile or so from civilization.


----------



## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

TrailNut said:


> my alias name does contain "nuts." Some may have allergic reactions to truths.
> 
> what a fly ideal. Then I'd want a pair, (main & backup) for each in my group.
> 
> ...


He must have been some kind of genius. Confucius also said 'Man with tool in hand is not necessarily mechanic'. Giddyup! Dese boots r made for walkin'.

I like the dirt but not the danger. Keep it rubber-side down.


----------



## BeanMan (Jul 6, 2006)

Many biologists consider pepper spray a better defense against grizzly bear attacks than handguns...If I felt I had the need for defense while night riding it would be with pepper spray. Certainly not a knife


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

BeanMan said:


> Many biologists consider pepper spray a better defense against grizzly bear attacks than handguns...If I felt I had the need for defense while night riding it would be with pepper spray. Certainly not a knife


While I agree with this is does pose the theological question: If the biologist was out hiking with his first born son and was suddenly confronted by a bear that began gnawing on his son's leg.....assuming the biologist had both bear spray and a .357 Magnum, which would he most likely reach for first? :ihih:

Now about the stuff that people carry on rides. Yes, carrying a lot of stuff can be a drag. Over the years I've lightened my own load by deciding what was likely to get used and what was not. Interestingly enough, it's surprising what things I carried that "actually got used" and what didn't.

I used to always carry a light hooded* windbreaker*. I carried it so often that I forgot it was in my pack. On one hot summer day I was riding a local park that harbored a wildlife refuge and contained a very large salt water marsh area. As I came out of a wooded area I crossed over a bridge to enter into a section of gravel road that basically circled through a more open field area. As I made my way along one section of the road I suddenly found myself being attacked by a swarm of black flies. :eekster: One or two of the buggers you can handle but the hoard that was hounding after me was driving me insane! I tried to out race them but they wouldn't give up. Then I remembered the windbreaker. I stopped and quickly pulled the jacket out of my pack and threw it on. With the hood up they could no longer bite my head, neck and arms. Even though it was 90°F I didn't care. That windbreaker saved that ride big time.

Another thing I carried then and still do, a *small spray bottle of insect repellent*. On one ride ( once again ) was attack suddenly by a swarm of insects. This time it was gnats ( the small but biting kind ). Not as bad as the flies but still annoying as hell. I reached for the bug spray and the problem was resolved.

I used to carry *latex gloves* with me. ( the thin light-weight surgical type ) I think I used to carry these in case I got caught in a cold rain. I didn't want my hands to get wet. Wet I can handle but wet and cold is completely different. As before I carried them for years and forgot about them. Then one day I speared the side wall of my rear tire while on a night ride. Blew the tire out immediately. I ended up using one of the gloves as a tire boot. The glove coupled with some electrical tape ( and a replacement tube ) and I limped my way home. ( *note, the original tube was not patchable. )

Something else I used to carry but now no longer do: A *small mini-folding camp saw*. Not sure why I was carrying it now as it was long ago but I think it had something to do with being prepared for a major accident. Back then I was always half killing myself. I figured in the event I might break my leg I could use the saw to cut a branch off a tree to fashion a crutch. ....Hey, it made a lot of sense back then. :lol:

Other stuff I used to carry but now no longer do: *a spoke repair kit. A *chain repair tool. A park mult-tool. Various mini screw drivers. *large pen knife. * ( * these only for epic remote rides now )

Things I just recently purchased: a compact emergency poncho. An emergency whistle combo with temp gauge and compass ( 3 in one ). I would of bought an emergency blanket but damn they want some money for those. I'll get one though if I ride the mountains again.

Note to self: I need to see if there's a mini e-book on wilderness survival. Could come in handy one day as I carry the droid on most rides.

I really am glad to see all the feedback on this thread. I really do need to reevaluate my "must have" carry items again. This thread has provided some positive feedback.


----------



## lanceuppercut (Mar 9, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> While I agree with this is does pose the theological question: If the biologist was out hiking with his first born son and was suddenly confronted by a bear that began gnawing on his son's leg.....assuming the biologist had both bear spray and a .357 Magnum, which would he most likely reach for first? :ihih:
> 
> Now about the stuff that people carry on rides. Yes, carrying a lot of stuff can be a drag. Over the years I've lightened my own load by deciding what was likely to get used and what was not. Interestingly enough, it's surprising what things I carried that "actually got used" and what didn't.
> 
> ...


I have a free app on my iphone called survivalguide. It is the US Military field manual on wilderness survival in app form. There's probably something similar for android.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

*solo night bicyclist shot & killed in my town*

Berkeley Bicyclist Found Fatally Shot Tuesday - Berkeley, CA Patch

solo night riding has its risks, far more so when "commuting" in an urban road...

if your were shot, but can still move, would to try to run or try to attack the felon, in self-defense, to at least leave physical evidence for the police (to contribute to justice being served in order to help remove such a threat to others in your community), before you expire?

Please consider the spirit of my question with this thought: "Our society becomes great when old men plant trees for shades they'll never sit under."


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

BeanMan said:


> Many biologists consider pepper spray a better defense against grizzly bear attacks than handguns...If I felt I had the need for defense while night riding it would be with pepper spray. Certainly not a knife


once CA biologist reached for her sharpened stake (that were intended to be river bank markers for her study) to relieve her self of the mt. loin's jaws clamp to her head, that got her by surprise. Upon being stabbed in the head the lion released and took off.

carrying 6 ounces of sharp steel, in a secure sheath, does not seem to "cost" much fuss.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

*wet weather riding vest, highly visible*

Please recommend a wet weather MTB riding vest, highly visible (white, yellow, orange, or red)? my down vest's no good in rain or on heavy sweat.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

*a knife does far more then defense*



BeanMan said:


> Many biologists consider pepper spray a better defense against grizzly bear attacks than handguns...If I felt I had the need for defense while night riding it would be with pepper spray. Certainly not a knife


a knife can be so much more useful than just for that extremely improbable defense needs...and also does not run out of "ammo'."

while walking in the woods where over 500# beasts are known to be, a prudent human ought to have both: pepper spray and a heavy-duty handgun, when *not* expecting any trouble what so ever..


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Bowie Minimalist | EDC Fixed Blade Knives | C RKT

I have this knife attached to my right shoulder strap of my Camelbak. It's held securely in the holster upside down, yet it comes out easily by hand. So far, in a couple of years, I've used it to pop thorns out of tires. There are never people in the woods at night where I ride. Without lights, you can't see your hand in front of your face.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

*www.crkt.com*



NYrr496 said:


> Bowie Minimalist | EDC Fixed Blade Knives | C RKT
> 
> I have this knife attached to my right shoulder strap of my Camelbak. It's held securely in the holster upside down, yet it comes out easily by hand. So far, in a couple of years, I've used it to pop thorns out of tires. There are never people in the woods at night where I ride. Without lights, you can't see your hand in front of your face.


thanks...i'll look into an offering by CRKT Knives - Columbia River Knife and Tool....


----------



## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

TrailNut said:


> Please recommend a wet weather MTB riding vest, highly visible (white, yellow, orange, or red)? my down vest's no good in rain or on heavy sweat.


I'd recommend one with attachable sleeves - I've had one for ~10yrs and it gets used/ carried on every ride. It doesn't have to be day-glo, but make sure it has plenty of reflective strips that aren't going to be hidden by a camelbak. Also, waterproof isn't so important - as long as it's wind proof and water resistant, you'll stay warm if you're moving.

I'd also recommend to *everybody* to carry a space blanket in their saddlebag or camelbak. It can literally save someones life one day. When I started mtbing I had a very bad crash which left me unconscious (on a group ride thankfully) and I was dressed for the temperature when I was riding. It took so long for the ambulance to arrive that the temperature had dropped precipitously and I was admitted with severe hypothermia (the type where all your peripheral blood vessels have collapsed). A space blanket would have at least reduced the severity of the hypothermia even if it wouldn't have prevented it.


----------



## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

TrailNut said:


> Berkeley Bicyclist Found Fatally Shot Tuesday - Berkeley, CA Patch
> 
> solo night riding has its risks, far more so when "commuting" in an urban road...
> 
> ...


Crap, this is hitting close to home. I know the city of Berkeley well enough to know that area is not a bad area at all. I hope the reason was not just some random act. According to local news the victim was a woman in her 40-50.

I usually have a rear video and another helmet cam on my helmet. Almost all video I take are usually deleted, however there are some video that I have archived into a special DVD case in case something ever does happen to me. I have the case label so that family member can view them in case of the worst scenerio. I usually take any cager or road incidence that has happen and save those onto DVD in case. I do this just so that if there ever was a chance that the same person who commited the crime in the future was from a previous incident.

To answer your question: If I was still alive and have enough energy to move, I probably take my small 3" assist opening knife and scribe whatever description I can of the suspect onto the pavement and hopefully the LEO can use that info. With my luck, I probably be laying over many pothole where scribing anything is impossible.


----------



## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

Hi Trailnut! I was reading a little bit; some funny posts!!!
I recomend a knife that has a retention mechanism other than a "clip" since I can tell you those release with a simple touch. Your most secure bet is something like this IMO
were the knife is held by a strap. It will not be released in a crash.
you can attach this to your camelbak strap horizontaly or verticaly
As others have said alo prepare for a mayor mechanical malfunction or even to stay there all night (if its cold you want one of those NASA space blankets that come in a little pouch that are sold in REI to keep you warm; lighter/matches, etc)
Stay safe and let someone knows where you are and at what time you will be back to expect a call from you
Amazon.com: 420 SS Freedive, Scuba Dive, Fishing Knife with 3.55 Inch Blade: Sports & Outdoors


----------



## Fishbucket (Dec 4, 2012)

I have one of these

WENOKA SQUEEZE LOCK TITANIUM STILETTO (comes in a divers blunt tip too).

I'd post a pic... but I cant yet. 

It's Strapped to my PDF when I'm out fishing on the kayak. I've tried dozons of times to get it to pull out without squeezing the locks and it doesn't budge.It actually 'bolts' to my radio tab thingy on the PFD. Wont come off like a clip type. 
It would work out perfect on the straps of a camelback. 
Come to think of it now that I'm getting back into riding... I'm going to need another.


----------



## Fishbucket (Dec 4, 2012)

TrailNut said:


> if your were shot, but can still move, would to try to run or try to attack the felon, ."


 Yes, swift vicious justice.

If shot at on the hwy, I'd be piloting a 2 ton missle...

I dont believe in letting it go to karma. by the time they get whats coming to them, they would not remember what it was for.... they should pay-up...on the spot.


----------



## Doe Boy (Jul 23, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> This discussion is most interesting. I pretty much agree with *il2mb*. Not that I have anything against knifes but if I were to carry one it would be mostly for utility purposes.
> 
> I don't often ride in remote mountainous areas but when I do the thing I fear most is rattlesnakes. Snakes are not always easy to see, particularly at night. Snakes love trails because they can be a good place to hunt prey. I've seen rattlesnakes fully stretched out laying across a trail just laying there soaking up the sun. Real easy just to run right over one doing that as they look a lot like a stick. Now if I had some thigh-high snake gaiters then I would be more relaxed. So far I've had three encounters ( daytime ) with rattlesnakes in the mountains and I really don't ride mountains that often. Each time was in the day and I saw them well before I got close enough for one to strike.
> 
> ...


You also need to factor in that more often than not, your weapon can be used against you. A few years ago 8 gang bangers attacked me in a shopping mall (it was a gang initiation for one of their members to attack a big person). While I did get stabbed twice and had a part of my arm bitten off, I also managed to disarm one guy and he accidentally got stabbed in the head by his own knife.....or so I was told in court at his trial when he was convicted.

I ride at night and I've given thought to protection from animals, not so worried about people in So Cal. I'd feel better with an expandable baton than a knife......just feel that if me and the mountain lion gotta throw down, I'd rather use the baton to make noise to scare it off, and if that fails, get a good swing in before it gets too close (assuming I seen it coming). Not sure about the legality of those things.


----------



## Doe Boy (Jul 23, 2012)

TrailNut said:


> Berkeley Bicyclist Found Fatally Shot Tuesday - Berkeley, CA Patch
> 
> solo night riding has its risks, far more so when "commuting" in an urban road...
> 
> ...


I've like that quote and have never heard it. Probably should read "...plant trees FOR shades..."


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

*your weapon can be used against you*



Doe Boy said:


> You also need to factor in that more often than not, your weapon can be used against you. A few years ago 8 gang bangers attacked me in a shopping mall (it was a gang initiation for one of their members to attack a big person). While I did get stabbed twice and had a part of my arm bitten off, I also managed to disarm one guy and he accidentally got stabbed in the head by his own knife.....or so I was told in court at his trial when he was convicted.
> 
> I ride at night and I've given thought to protection from animals, not so worried about people in So Cal. I'd feel better with an expandable baton than a knife......just feel that if me and the mountain lion gotta throw down, I'd rather use the baton to make noise to scare it off, and if that fails, get a good swing in before it gets too close (assuming I seen it coming). Not sure about the legality of those things.


RE: "... your weapon can be used against you..."

True.

That is why no-weapons training ought to precede or go concurrent with weapons, that includes fitness.

No one can eliminate risks. All we can do is to manage risks, knowing that the police can not prevent felony violence or an attack to an individual.

Most importantly, it's the mind-set of preparedness that find solutions to restore peace amid the world of pain: Courage is having done the preparations.

I'm re-thinking the emergency space blanket...how to haul that on cold night rides without wearing a "camel"pack...

Enjoy.


----------



## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

> I'm re-thinking the emergency space blanket...how to haul that on cold night rides without wearing a "camel"pack...


Just wrap it around your knife....

You're thinking of carrying all this 'emergency' stuff but you don't want to carry a hydration pack? Because it would restrict our mobility when you have to 'fight off that bear'??? :lol:

And as for 'managing risk', I think you are managing to a risk that barely exists. What about carrying a defibrilator in case you your heart stops beating while out for a ride? Eventually your heart will stop beating. Guaranteed. Being attacked by a wild animal. No guarantee.


----------



## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

*carrying a defibrilator*



blackbean said:


> Just wrap it around your knife....
> 
> You're thinking of carrying all this 'emergency' stuff but you don't want to carry a hydration pack? Because it would restrict our mobility when you have to 'fight off that bear'??? :lol:
> 
> And as for 'managing risk', I think you are managing to a risk that barely exists. What about carrying a defibrilator in case you your heart stops beating while out for a ride? Eventually your heart will stop beating. Guaranteed. Being attacked by a wild animal. No guarantee.


carrying a defibrilator? your gross exaggerations are amusing and sure does add to your reputation.

I got used to not wearing a hydration pack: I just feel more comfortable without it. I only carry that when i'm leading a training ride of minors.

wow, so much strong reactions to a mere six ounces of a metal tool. cracks me up.

Got hoplophobia much? I'm just kidding, relax. 

Hoplophobia is a pejorative neologism originally coined to describe an "irrational aversion to weapons..."

thanks for replying.

enjoy.


----------



## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

I live in Louisiana. I carry a 9mm Berreta 92 FS in a shoulder holster when I ride at night. It's not concealed and is perfectly legal in our state. It doesn't intimidate anybody because it's dark and not overtly visible to anyone else except another night rider with light. I get back in the car and put it back in it's spot in the car. Do I expect to ever use it? No. But better to have it just in case and I confess I feel better armed at night in the middle of the forest.


----------



## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

TrailNut said:


> .... your gross exaggerations are amusing and sure does add to your reputation.


My reputation? What reputation do I have? How do you know me? This is one of the weirdest forum posting I've ever heard of. You're like a child with an over-active imagination. You want this to be about weapons under the guise of preparations for a night ride. You continually bring up examples of how you 'saved' people, or how you would 'fight back' if you were shot. What in heaven's name does that have to do with riding a bike at night in the woods? Realistically? You should stick to your gun and fighting forums. It sounds like you want to impress people with how 'tough' you are, brave and prepared so you can get parental approval and stroking from the adults. Seriously man, stop living this imaginary life, you are not Macgyver and he's just a TV character.

But we do agree the defibrillator was funny. We just don't agree that posting about which knife to take on a night ride is funny. I think it's a joke, so sorry, that's all you'll get from me. At least it provided me with a lot of laughter. You so silly MacGyver. :nono:


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*But we do agree the defibrillator was funny.*

About the defibrillator: Come on guys...be nice. Actually I suppose carrying a defibrillator would be a little over the top if you're just going out for the typical Sunday ride but really It isn't as odd-ball as what you might think.

A while back I remember someone on my local club forums mentioned that when they do group club rides that they like to have someone trained in CPR along who is equipped ( and trained ) to use a portable defibrillator. If you think about it, it makes good sense because I've heard of people having heart attacks while doing group rides.

That said I suppose it's not too much a stretch of the imagination to think that someone who is trained in CPR might decide to carry the Defib while even on the solo rides. You won't hear a laugh or complaint from me. The life he saves might be mine. ( cause' I ain't getting any younger )..:smilewinkgrin:....( *CLEAR!....ZAP!* )


----------



## S2kTim (Dec 7, 2012)

Why do people share their opinions regarding whether or not he should carry a knife to begin with when he specifically asked for useful comments about which blade to purchase?

I've been looking for a knife as well, not only for a piece of mind, but a knife can always be useful in the woods.


----------



## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> About the defibrillator: Come on guys...be nice. Actually I suppose carrying a defibrillator would be a little over the top if you're just going out for the typical Sunday ride but really It isn't as odd-ball as what you might think.
> 
> A while back I remember someone on my local club forums mentioned that when they do group club rides that they like to have someone trained in CPR along who is equipped ( and trained ) to use a portable defibrillator. If you think about it, it makes good sense because I've heard of people having heart attacks while doing group rides.
> 
> That said I suppose it's not too much a stretch of the imagination to think that someone who is trained in CPR might decide to carry the Defib while even on the solo rides. You won't hear a laugh or complaint from me. The life he saves might be mine. ( cause' I ain't getting any younger )..:smilewinkgrin:....( *CLEAR!....ZAP!* )


 I really did not take any of this seriously. I was actually having a lot of fun with it even though some of the stuff I mentioned can be helpful and would be good to carry, but not for 99% of the rides you will do. But I guess you can think of almost any situation that can occur and think of something to 'prepare' for it. What if some wild natives were still living in the area and shot you with an arrow? Possible, but HIGHLY unlikely, right? I place preparing to be attached by a bear and fighting it off with a knife in the same class. There are thousands of other things that are more likely to occur, but all so unlikely that you must live in constant fear of losing your life to think of those things.

And the good thing about this discussion is that now Trailnut might carry that defibrillator. I have to agree with you, and I think he will too. It will definitely be more likely to be needed than a knife to fight of a bear or wild animal attack. Carrying a knife is one thing. But to think you will be attacked by a wild animal and you will use that knife in defense is a completely different ball of wax. Just go hunting if you want to satisfy your craving for adventure or a rough and tumble with wild animals. And maybe take a bike with you, because if you wound the animal, you could use the bike to escape the charging animal. You never know when a bike might come in handy on a hunt.


----------



## Nothing's impossible (Mar 5, 2012)

It's obvious this is a mountainbiker!


----------



## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

Nothing's impossible said:


> It's obvious this is a mountainbiker!


 ROFL!

But I have to disagree.....he does not have a defibrillator.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

blackbean said:


> I really did not take any of this seriously. I was actually having a lot of fun with it even though *some of the stuff I mentioned can be helpful and would be good to carry, but not for 99% of the rides you will do. But I guess you can think of almost any situation that can occur and think of something to 'prepare' for it. What if some wild natives were still living in the area and shot you with an arrow? Possible, but HIGHLY unlikely, right? I place preparing to be attached by a bear and fighting it off with a knife in the same class. There are thousands of other things that are more likely to occur, but all so unlikely that you must live in constant fear of losing your life to think of those things.....*


Well said but I wouldn't exactly put being attacked by a bear in the same league with being attacked by wild natives ( unless the natives are Crack addicted felons.. )
There are areas where bear encounters are more likely to occur. This doesn't mean you carry the bear spray and buck knife on every ride, just the rides where the bear population is more dense.

Sure bear attacks are very rare...still....If I'm on a ride in the mountains and I stop because I see a bear ahead of me with her cub. Even though I'm 200ft away I'm think'in .._"OH S88t! Sure would be good to have that spray and a knife right now"!_ Now if I don't have those things my heart's beating a little faster and my butt is turning around to put a lot more distance between me and the Bears. While bear attacks are rare, bear sightings are not so rare.


----------



## blackbean (Nov 20, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> Sure bear attacks are very rare...still....If I'm on a ride in the mountains and I stop because I see a bear ahead of me with her cub. Even though I'm 200ft away I'm think'in .._"OH S88t! Sure would be good to have that spray and a knife right now"!_ Now if I don't have those things my heart's beating a little faster and my butt is turning around to put a lot more distance between me and the Bears. While bear attacks are rare, bear sightings are not so rare.


And I think that underlines my point. You will most likely see or hear a wild animal at some point riding your bike in the woods, but being attacked by one is orders of magnitude less likely.

Thinking of defening yourself against a bear is like thinking of hunting for food. Yes, you can hunt for food. You would do it for the thrill, the adventure, the challenge, the fun and polishing a skill. But 99.999% of us shop for food almost 100% of the time. I wouldn't give hunting for food much of a thought.

And yes, bear sightings are pretty common in my area. But attacks are all but unheard of. Possible, but improbable. Nationwide I hardly every read or hear of wild animal or bear attacks in the wild, specifically when people go into parks and places where people typically mountain bike. It's so rare it normally makes a big splash in the news. We expect it to happen more frequently. But reality is a lot less exciting than what we are accustomed to in our Hollywood lifestyles. We are all deathly afraid of sharks, especially Great White's. However, there are less than 20 fatal shark attacks a year. Globally. And think about how 'man-hours' humans spend in the water per year.


----------



## venturi95 (Apr 25, 2012)

OK, a quick question for all of you people half-trolling the OP: have you ever had an unexpected encounter with a mountain lion that didn't run away? Yes, it is rare, but it happened to me and my 35# dog. Be prepared, if you think you are bigger and badder than even a modest sized cougar you are wrong.


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

venturi95 said:


> OK, a quick question for all of you people half-trolling the OP: have you ever had an unexpected encounter with a mountain lion that didn't run away? Yes, it is rare, but it happened to me and my 35# dog. Be prepared, if you think you are bigger and badder than even a modest sized cougar you are wrong.


Absolutely true. Animals are way badder than us.


----------

