# Mountain Bike Action



## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

I was very angry to see that MBA is testing a 11 thousand dollar hardtail this mouth. The other tested bikes are just as expensive. We are in the middle of a recession and no one I know can afford five thousand or more on a bike.

So I was wondering how many other people think MBA has lost it and should test bikes we all can afford and get off their high horse?


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## Ilikemud (Aug 23, 2008)

Yep those magazines are garbage, they hardly ever have any tech in them, and the bikes they show are so far beyond my means.....


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## HarryCallahan (Nov 2, 2004)

Kona0197 said:


> So I was wondering how many other people think MBA has lost it ?


Lost it?
Did they ever have it?


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## Fancy Hat (Apr 14, 2008)

MBA sucks, once you've read one you've read them all. 

Your best bet is to ignore MBA, flip through the pretty pictures in BIKE, and read Dirt Rag.

On a side note, "Mountain Bike" was pretty good in it's day, but that day came and went.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Simple solution! Invest the $3.99 you spend on MBA into a 6% savings plan. In 45 years, you'll have enough saved up to buy an $11,000 bike.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Nate - they cost 4.99 now. So I'm looking at 40 years left right?


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## E.J. (Jul 18, 2008)

Didn't Dirt Rag just review an 8K Lynskey hardtail? When you get to 8K, what is another 3..... 


That, a Superfly...BLT2 and another bike, cannot remember....think everything was mid 4K and up as tested.... 

Anyway, just going off memory, mag is in my office at work.... Maybe someone can confirm.


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## carbuncle (Dec 9, 2005)

Over the last few years I think they have done a decent job of incorporating a lot more low and mid-priced "shootouts" and reviews. I always find the ridiculously expensive bike reviews to be interesting.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Kona0197 said:


> Nate - they cost 4.99 now. So I'm looking at 40 years left right?


$5? Damn. I could buy a pack of smokes and a pack of Suzy Q's for that! (right?) 

But seriously, MBA is a nasty habit that you probably want to drop sooner rather than later. It always served to make me to feel inadequate, needing to buy _something_ being hawked on their pages.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

It's the same as Rodent Track doing supercar shootouts between Ferrari, Lamborghini and a Bugatti, a test of an $11,000 hardtail is all about stuff of consumer dreams, and has nothing much to do with making a choice of what to buy. And it definitely has nothing to do with matching content to reader demographics. Magazine content has never much cared about the economic climate, otherwise consumer product magazines would go out of business when the economy slows down. 

If you aren't interested in all the bikes MBA is reviewing, just skip those pages. If it gets to the point where you're skipping most of the pages, just skip buying the magazine all together. They're mostly focused on the California trail conditions and that market, their reviews never seem to translate to any other part of the country anyway, especially tires.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

I think its fun to look at reviews and tests of high end anything. I wouldn't pay $5 for MBA to look at that crap though. Thats an energy drink, bag of pretzels and a jack links jerky. Seriously, priorities. 

Same thing with high end bikes. I can buy pretty much any bike I want and ride with others in the same situation. But I'm convinced the point of diminishing returns for a mountain bike is somewhere under 2k. My current bike was $600 BTW.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

I don't usually read MBA. Other magazines do "dream" bikes too, and I like it as long as they also do "real" bikes.


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## Team Fubar Rider (Sep 3, 2003)

The other thing is, the technology in that $11K bike will be in your $3K bike in a few years. Look at high end mountain bikes from 10 years ago. They are the low end bikes of today. I take those high end tests as a preview of what's to come.

And as others have said...ditch MBA. Bike and DR are the only two worth reading regularly. The only time I ever buy an MBA is when I am taking a flight and I need some eye candy...which is about once per year.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

MBA is and has always been about advertising high-end bikes, with only the occasional bone thrown to the mid-range at the insistence of the mfg's they represent.

If you want flash & trash, MBA is your mag. Largely appeals to noobs and motosports/bmx crossovers.

Don't look to a magazine "test" to help you in buying a bike. See one that looks like it might do what you want, go throw a leg over it and try it out. There are typically a hundred variables (most notably the brands advertising commitment to the mag) that determine how a magazine will review a product, and only one of them is the product itself. Nearly all the points made in any review are entirely subjective, and should not be taken any more seriously than asking a 5 year old how they like their tricycle.

DirtRags words & Bikes pictures are as good as it gets in the US.

The European mags are where its at.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I can't stand to wait for print magazines any more. By the time it comes out on the stands any news in there is old news hashed over in a dozen threads or more online. I subscribe to Dirt Rag and Bike but I haven't even read an article in either one in a couple of years. I just flip through the pics (and see that I've seen them all already on MTBR) then toss them onto the table in the waiting room at my office.


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## Spartacus Rex (Dec 18, 2006)

Fancy Hat said:


> ...Your best bet is to ignore MBA, flip through the pretty pictures in BIKE, and read Dirt Rag...


+1

Best advice ever


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Thanks for the advice guys. I seem to have every issue of MBA back to 2000 or 2001. I guess they will never change. I see lately that others have wrote in complaining about the high price of the bikes tested but I guess it falls on deaf ears. I have noticed they have begun testing $800 to $1500 bikes once an issue. That's not enough. They claim they don't give products good ratings because the product makers advertise in MBA but I beg to differ.

Mountain Bike WAS a far better mag. I would have thought with Zap on board with MBA that MBA would change. I was wrong.

Be that as it may I'm happy with my low end bike. Suits me just fine. Perhaps I should write MBA again and tell them to test bikes like mine.

_Probably would not help..._


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Or you could start your own magazine or online review site. Start out demoing by renting bikes from your LBS. Truly affordable stuff.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

I've always thought about starting a low end review mag. Thanks for the advice.


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

I wonder what you'll say if they test a $13,000 Scott Genius Ltd for 09? Anyway, I think they should mix top end and lower bikes in their tests and MBA is garbage IMO.


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## ArmySlowRdr (Dec 19, 2003)

i like all the generic ones--dirt rag, buike, bicycle, bicycling, mountain bike, MBA etc.

i do not like decline and mags of that ilk.


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## AndysTrek (Jul 18, 2008)

Ever notice how a model that costs so much can be had in a "cheaper" version? The all-carbon uber-bikes 9 outta 10 times have an aluminum cousin, with less expensive component groups. If they test and review at the high end of the spectrum, does that mean you have to BUY at the high end of the spectrum? No. But you can buy middle of the road, or even lowball, and still know the potential in your bike when you wear out parts and need replacements. Not to mention, how many people in the threads around here talk about their bike, and it's less than 3 years old, a FS, running a couple grand? Not that big of a deal. I'm a friggin carpenter, and while i may HAVE tens of thousands of dollars saved up, read MBA once in a while, and enjoy mountain biking, you'll never catch me on a $10k hardtail. Hell, you'd be lucky to catch me in a 10k vehicle if its not my truck.


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## AndysTrek (Jul 18, 2008)

p.s. I said keep testing expensive crap. If it gets built, tested, and drooled over, someone will buy it. Like it was said before. In 5 years my cheapo affordable version will have most of that technology anyhow. Rich people and super-enthusiasts quit buying, then companies quit testing. And my cheap bike stays cheap forever more.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Well these high end bikes usually are one of a kind custom built bikes. No aluminum cousins. This is also another point that bothers me.

Heck the editor - Jimmy Mac - just got a Exogrid Titus Racer X. Not cheap. He is the same guy that told me last year they would start testing stuff we could afford versus uber expensive dream parts.


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## Clutchman83 (Apr 16, 2006)

Kona0197 said:


> Heck the editor - Jimmy Mac - just got a Exogrid Titus Racer X. Not cheap. He is the same guy that told me last year they would start testing stuff we could afford versus uber expensive dream parts.


They always justify testing the top of the line stuff because they say the technology will trickle down to the lower spec'd models and there is no point in reviewing previous years tech. Whenever they do test a mid spec'd model they complain about the crummy parts and then still give it a glowing overall review. MBA sucks, it's good to waste about 30 minutes because the majority of their articles are just regurgitation of the same stuff they said before.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Yes I've noticed they basically say every bike they test is the best bike ever made in so many different words.


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## Jwind (Mar 1, 2006)

is MBA good? No...

do i like reading it? Ya...

All with a grain of salt people. I like reading about the 11k builds. It's interesting. but htat's about it. And i actually don't mind Jimmy mac.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Well I never said I don't like Jimmy. Sounds like a good guy. I find RC to be a bit arrogant. 

I sure wish Rodale would bring back Mountain Bike...


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## mondaycurse (Nov 24, 2005)

Every once in a while MBA has an issue for the broke-ass penny-pinching welfare livers who can only afford a $3k bike, but it doesn't come by often enough.

Then again, reviews from magazines don't matter nearly as much now that internet sites like mtbr have reviews for nearly every bike, component, or item of clothing you could dream of.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

3K is still bloody expensive...

But I see your point. You are so right!


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## S.T.I.N.C. (Aug 1, 2008)

*Cancelled*

I cancelled my subscription years ago. There really isn't much that this magazine offers that can't be found on the internet, for free.


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## Jwind (Mar 1, 2006)

S.T.I.N.C. said:


> I cancelled my subscription years ago. There really isn't much that this magazine offers that can't be found on the internet, for free.


well, there is one thing. You (i at least) can't read the internet on the can...


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## Clutchman83 (Apr 16, 2006)

Jwind said:


> well, there is one thing. You (i at least) can't read the internet on the can...


Get a laptop dude. Surfing the web on the can is the next big evolution of bathroom reading, I do it all the time  !


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

As do I. 

Wireless networks rule.


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## Johnny Hair Boy (Jul 11, 2004)

I don't mind MBA. I find the dream bikes test fun. I like some of the other mags too but I refuse to by or read Dirt Rag because of all the left wing political bull $hit in there.


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## azdrawdy (Jul 22, 2004)

Fancy Hat said:


> MBA sucks, once you've read one you've read them all.
> 
> Your best bet is to ignore MBA, flip through the pretty pictures in BIKE, and read Dirt Rag.
> 
> On a side note, "Mountain Bike" was pretty good in it's day, but that day came and went.


You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. I subscribed to DR for several years but got fed up with their constant political rants. I don't subscribe to a mtb mag to read their political opinions. If you don't know what I am referring to, then you haven't read more than two issues. 

I emailed them, explained my position, and requested to be removed from their mailings...

MD


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

OK I see from the poll most people think MBA is garbage. I was hoping more of you would back me up and tell MBA to test bikes we can afford. 

Any other thoughts?


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

i stopped reading it when they stopped running voodoo adds because the word voodoo didn't fit in with the publishers religious beliefs. this was back in the mid-late nineties i believe. they may have changed their stance since then, but i haven't had the motivation to buy an episode since.


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## mondaycurse (Nov 24, 2005)

Kona0197 said:


> 3K is still bloody expensive...


I know! My dream bike is around $2500. Any more than that and I'm just throwing money into the air.


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## Not So Fast (Feb 4, 2004)

*I buy it*

I buy it and I like it. I don't read the bike reviews much but the other stuff is pretty good. A couple of months ago the tire shoot out worked for me. You may not agree with their top selections but as long as you stay away from their runts you can get pretty good stuff that has been tested. The shoot outs are good, I'll stay. Thank you very much......


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Yeah I like the shoot outs and product reviews. I just can't stomach readings reviews of bikes that exceed 5K in most cases. It makes no sense. 

Especially given how our economy is doing.


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## SlimTwisted (Jun 14, 2006)

It doesn't take too much investigating to conclude that MBA is essentially a glossy advertisement filled with advertisements (that costs you to read it no less). It's laughable how often RC confesses his undying love for Santa Cruz. 

On the other hand it's tough to deny that appeal of bike porn in most any form. I'm guilty of reading it (along with the other American mags and Singletrack). I believe they've made a few improvements over the years that improve the reader-base/ editorial relationship as in the front section that showcases reader-submitted photos, the new Garage Files feature, which will likely appeal to beginners looking to learn how to do basic maintenance on their bikes, and I'm glad that both Jimmy Mac and Richard Cunningham get an editorial column (as opposed to only RC's some years back).

Still, with all of the great free web sites available, it really isn't necessary to rely upon one (or all) of the mags for their corporate butt kissing "reviews" anyway. At least that's how I look at it anyway.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

It's also funny how many times a Santa Cruz or Intense bike is tested...


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## bigpedaler (Jan 29, 2007)

I recently did a 'read-through' of my MBA collection (most issues from the last 6 yrs.), and I have to say that the writing and the attitude of the mag has gone soft over the last 2 1/2 or so. It;s like they're "on top of the mountain bike magazine business", and they think those uber-bikes are a perk they deserve.

Crap.

Trouble is, every now & again, out of the blue, something they write will click; it'll be what I need to find out just when I need to find it out! Between that and the 2-wheeled eye candy, that's about the sum total of why I scrip. But I know that when it expires, I'm done. I'm getting bored. With just about everything but riding my bike.


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## mtb 4ever (Jun 14, 2008)

I also agree that the big dollar bikes are a joke. The joke is on us, because we pay to read something we will never buy (must of us). Dirt Rag is a great mag, but they would sell many more mags if they did not put politics in it. It's like they don't think you can love biking if your not a lefty. BIKE is the best.


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## dusthuffer (Nov 30, 2006)

all consumer magazines are just mostly just ads, even the articles, so I'm not expecting MBA to be anything different.

So things that you might want to judge a magazine on are number of pages for the dollar, page and ink quality, does it have a lot of reviews.

MBA has all this, and are as good or better than most mags ( I would say Decline is the exception ) on just amount of content.

But here's the thing: It's the shitty writing in MBA I can't handle. It kills me it really does. Issue after issue, they repeat their same dorky catch-phrases and lame attempts at puns and humor.

I don't know about anybody else, but I for get tired of that stuff quickly, and they just keep doing it. I cringe every time I page through it at the bookstore (when I read it and don't buy it). If they just toned it down to normal writing, I would probably start subscribing because there is useful content buried underneath all the junk.

Oh and they gotta stop posting the smiling pics of Jimmy Mac and the other guy, please MBA we have seen you enough just try a year of issues without having to see that.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

sean salach said:


> &#8230;they stopped running voodoo adds because the word voodoo didn't fit in with the publishers religious beliefs&#8230;


Kryst, seriously? Musta been an RC thing? Evil Bikes or Race Face Diabolus probably woulda popped their collective head.


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## ForestHorse (Jun 7, 2008)

It is what it is, I guess - garbage - MBA, ie. But no one goes to zoo to see a dog or cat, either.


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## NA1NSXR (May 8, 2008)

Once a new issue comes out, I will usually buy a coffee at the bookstore and read it. I will occassionally buy an issue for toilet reading.


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## jpelaston (Feb 27, 2007)

Mountain Bike Fiction


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## MasChingon (Jun 20, 2002)

Not to mention the excessively long article on the 15mm Fox axle system or was it an advertisement.


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## dusthuffer (Nov 30, 2006)

Announcement: Voodoo bikes is going with a new lighter 14.75mm axel system but we'll never know about it because of MBA's religious beliefs. James will want to run this on his 2005 V10.


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## JmZ (Jan 10, 2004)

That was a pretty long time ago. And don't think it was RC, think it was Hindz or whatever the publisher's name was. I remember hearing about it here after wondering why the ad had a black box over it's pic.

They also didn't run the Iron Horse G-Spot ads, or the Jamis Diablo ads - they'd have 'censored' plastered over the ad.

JmZ


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## TBarnaby (Aug 1, 2008)

I read a few post ago that it was simply Bike Porn....I agree....so based on that I want to see more pictures and fewer of those black and white character thingys around the pictures. I see MBA as just entertainment, I do most of my initial research by talking to other riders.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Why all the economy comments? The economy being 'bad' or in a recession has nothing to do with testing expensive bikes. Its like saying ferrari should stop making cars because your gas bills have gone up. Boo Hoo. 

The religious thing is just ridiculous. Lets make a magazine based on bling over substance, excessive consumption, but we're pure because we don't run ads for products named after 'evil stuff'. One more reason why religion is crap.


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## Spartacus Rex (Dec 18, 2006)

I've been a subscriber for quite some time and I am pretty bored with it. I really dont care whether they review high end bikes or low end or whatever because their review format totally sucks. Each review is written with a totally different tone and subjective style. I realize that all reviews are by their nature subjective, but you can at least put each bike through the same tests with categorical results. I usually skim the reviews for that very reason.

The shootouts are usually pretty good because that puts the competition in the same review for comparison.

Unlike others here, I like the editorial style of Richard Cunningham and his writting is 10X better than Jimmy Mac. At least RC writes about the passion of the sport, but we have to endure "What is on my IPOD from JM". Who cares?

The "Garage files" section is pretty good and they should have more of those kinds of articles.


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## dusthuffer (Nov 30, 2006)

I think MBA (cleverly) caters to newbies, basically, people in their first year of mountain biking. That's best target market they can aim for.

The publisher has all those other sports magazines, he's probably done some research that proves most people get into a sport, buy a bunch of equipment, then drop out of a sport after about a year and take up another sport.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

I agree with dusthuffer, it's a formula the Hinz family is successful with. Who cares if a mag reviews low end stuff? What's the difference between 5 $800 bikes these days? Not much, might even all be made in the same factory. It's like caring if there's a difference between 5 brands of soda pop. My favorite part of an MBA review is when they judge a bike as a whole by the way their test sled was equipped with a certain length stem/handlebar or tire (but fits dusthuffer's analysis well). Why is the Nevegal a big fav? Johnny T on their payroll wouldn't have anything to do with that? Why is Jimmy Mac all up in arms in the latest issue about metric vs English measurements? Is his brain that small that they can't offer both or are they firm in their commitment to the American idiot?


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## sru (Sep 26, 2005)

vicarvizu said:


> Not to mention the excessively long article on the 15mm Fox axle system or was it an advertisement.


THAT, was unbelievable.

That issue ended up in my recycle bin as soon as I got home.


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## pakdoc (Dec 4, 2005)

Who draws the line at affordable? 
Kinda an individual's perception of worth. 

MBA and Bike mags as well as DR online are ok.
MTBR is the best.


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## WeakMite (May 11, 2004)

I started riding MTB's about 10 years ago... after the internet became mainstream. I'm used to getting my info from here and other forums from 1000's fellow riders. Not a limited number of journalists limited to column space.

Whenever I happen to thumb through most any of the magazines I'm always surprised that people will pay real money to read all of that nauseating jive-ass payola garbage they call content.


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## Team Fubar Rider (Sep 3, 2003)

The only problem with getting ALL your info from the web, especially in the forums, is you don't know who is talking. I have friends in the bike industry and companies, like Specialized, have people that post content, look for rogue shops selling their stuff on eBay, etc. So someone saying they love a certain part could be an employee of that company. Not saying it happens all the time, but it definitely happens. At least (in theory) in a magazine article, it is one person's opinion. Less BS to wade through to get an answer.


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## Clutchman83 (Apr 16, 2006)

Team Fubar Rider said:


> The only problem with getting ALL your info from the web, especially in the forums, is you don't know who is talking. I have friends in the bike industry and companies, like Specialized, have people that post content, look for rogue shops selling their stuff on eBay, etc. So someone saying they love a certain part could be an employee of that company. Not saying it happens all the time, but it definitely happens. At least (in theory) in a magazine article, it is one person's opinion. Less BS to wade through to get an answer.


Meh, I think you run the same risk with reading a magazine review. I know a professional journalist is supposed to be unbiased but I've read reviews in all the major magazines that made me scratch my head and think WTF. I have yet to read an unfavorable review of a Marzocchi fork in a mag despite myself having major problems and tons of people here complaining, hell, even the tech department has acknowledged it here! Forums are for discussion, mags are for stokage IMO. I really like when they show new technologies but bike and component reviews in mags are kind of pointless to me.


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## feetsnofail (Sep 25, 2006)

decent mag for morning bathroom reading =)


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## yater (Nov 3, 2006)

The thing I find funny is the pictures of the testers. Check out the august '08 edition....page 39. Read the caption and look at the picture. Flip the page and look at the pic on p.40. Where'd they find that guy? Check out his lines and gear selection. Why would anyone believe a review coming from a guy like that?

Also, why is "RC" testing the 22 lb epic? He looks like a 45+ beginner racer to me. What does he know about testing a top-of-the-line carbon race bike?


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## SoMo Addict (Jul 26, 2008)

Does anyone else think they test the bikes that the companies give them to test and that these magazines are really just advertisements disguised as information? Could that be why they are out of touch?


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## pspoolman (Nov 27, 2007)

In MBA defense they reviewed bikes from $2200 - $12000 that month so they don't just review high end bikes. I like there product shoot outs and use there reviews as another source of info, not my only source. I don't always agree with reviews but every one has an opinion. The article doesn't recommend the bike. I ride high end bikes so I don't mind the reviews. I figure I ride enough 4-5 days a week year round to justify it. The bike being reviewed sucks, no doubt about it. But the technology in this bike may be used in bikes down the road.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Clutchman83 said:


> Get a laptop dude. Surfing the web on the can is the next big evolution of bathroom reading, I do it all the time  !


You need more fibre in your diet. If you really have enough time to do serious web surfing, I'd recommend a visit to the doctor.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

SoMo Addict said:


> Does anyone else think they test the bikes that the companies give them to test and that these magazines are really just advertisements disguised as information? Could that be why they are out of touch?


Talk about hitting the nail on the head. That sounds about right.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> In MBA defense they reviewed bikes from $2200 - $12000 that month so they don't just review high end bikes.


Anything about 1500 is high end to me and people as poor as me. They should test one 800 dollar bike once in awhile.


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

> The only problem with getting ALL your info from the web, especially in the forums, is you don't know who is talking. I have friends in the bike industry and companies, like Specialized, have people that post content, look for rogue shops selling their stuff on eBay, etc. So someone saying they love a certain part could be an employee of that company. Not saying it happens all the time, but it definitely happens. At least (in theory) in a magazine article, it is one person's opinion. Less BS to wade through to get an answer.


Yeah there has been plenty of open and blatant advertising by certain companies and owners in these boards and it shows. Oh well don't let a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch.

I know what you mean about expensive bikes though.

I own 3 bikes

Trek 4300 - cost me $370 new and with upgrades = $450
Trek 6000 - cost me $700 with upgrades
GF cobia - cost me $1200 with upgrades

I thought the 4300 and 6000 were reasonable for a student. The cobia was a splurge buy and to me and my budget is high end as I will get for a long time.

Wealth is a relative thing. Among my circle of med student friends my cobia is caviar and my friend's giant is bargain basement. To each their own.


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## Clutchman83 (Apr 16, 2006)

Circlip said:


> You need more fibre in your diet. If you really have enough time to do serious web surfing, I'd recommend a visit to the doctor.


Can't rush a dump man. Just gotta let it happen...


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Rotflmao!!!


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## LDH (May 27, 2007)

mba seems a bit hypocritical as they want everyone to get the e-zine but refuse to put web links in their reviews,info and tests- just phone #'s


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

come on guys, i dont know about you, but i just cant get enough of the 
Santa Cruz Nomad -VS- Santa Cruz Heckler -VS- Santa Cruz Bullit -VS- Santa Cruz Blur Shootouts! Since they have them every 3 issues it keeps my mind up to date with how they like each Santa Cruz bike soooo much. its a really informative magazine if you think about it...........


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

I remember there for awhile MBA was on a Specialized/Intense thing were it seemed that's all they talked about and tested.


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## pakdoc (Dec 4, 2005)

They had an $800 bike shootout a few issues back, mid summer.
Online info is just more dynamic vs printed magazines. 
MBA noted they are relaunching their online site to include previously archived info
so maybe they are branching out.
Magazines exist to sell advertisments.....even MTBR exists to sell advertisments, but we
have more control of content here vs mags.


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## Paladin (Aug 7, 2006)

*Get your facts straight...*



Kona0197 said:


> We are in the middle of a recession


The USofA is not in a recession. A recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth. We have not had even one, lately. Last quarter was over 3% positive growth.


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## WarriorPro (Jun 12, 2006)

And in resurrecting the strange MBA censorship, we forgot to bring up one of the most laughable word omissions of them all... MBA refuses to ever use the word "free ride" claiming that it insinuates a negative association on the sport. In it’s place “Black Diamond”. Oy!


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

> Last quarter was over 3% positive growth.


I've yet to meet anyone who is enjoying this positive growth currently in my region. I know someone is still having a good time, but most folks in appalachia are royally &*%ed right now.


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## GotMojo? (Mar 25, 2004)

Kona0197 said:


> I was very angry to see that MBA is testing a 11 thousand dollar hardtail this mouth. The other tested bikes are just as expensive. We are in the middle of a recession and no one I know can afford five thousand or more on a bike.
> 
> So I was wondering how many other people think MBA has lost it and should test bikes we all can afford and get off their high horse?


I agree. And I canceled my subscription to Playboy because they never show any average looking obtainable chicks.


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## (wireless) (Nov 21, 2007)

To all you MBA haters out there, and to everyone who was ticked the MBA tested an 12K hardtail: 

I think you are missing the whole point on what our whole sport and passion is about. Mountain Bikes are about fun, that's the core essence and the reason why we ride. We read magazines to compliment our riding obsession, so we have something bike related when we're not riding. This articles are meant to be fun, enjoyable, and informative. Sure there are few riders that will be able to afford and appreciate a 12K bike, but we can all dream, it's not about bang for your buck with a bike like that. It's about making a statement and showing how the technological envelope can be pushed. I'm sure most of us have never heard of carbon iso-truss tubing, and would care less about it's applications. But to see it applied to something we all love: the mountain bike, is pretty damn cool. What fun would car magazines be if all they reviewed were civics, minivans, and suburbans. What makes a magazine like that fun is reading about the exotic cars, not the average commuter. Likewise with bikes so whats the big deal if MBA throws something exotic at us. All you haters need to stop hating and ride your bike more, enjoy life, and don't get caught up in stupid arguments cause it's taking away from your riding time. On a personal note I have ridden the Delta 7 Arrantix, and its an amazing bike and a marvel of engineering. I have never ridden a race bike that was as stiff, compliant, and snappy as the arrantix. Enough said, our sport is about fun so stop making it lame with all of your whining, *****ing, and complaining. To anyone that read my whole statement....Thanks.


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## ExpertCrasher (Aug 8, 2008)

Extremely well put and to the point gotmojo! :thumbsup: 

I have a $5000 bike and I don't care if I'm reading about an $11,000 bike or a shootout of $800 bikes, I'm still reading about bikes. What's out there, who's got what new idea, it's entertainment, it's not intended to be some kind of class warfare. 

I'd add "What Mountain Bike" magazine out of the UK to the list though, it's a great magazine but it's not cheap.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

(wireless) said:


> To all you MBA haters out there, and to everyone who was ticked the MBA tested an 12K hardtail:
> 
> I think you are missing the whole point on what our whole sport and passion is about. Mountain Bikes are about fun, that's the core essence and the reason why we ride. We read magazines to compliment our riding obsession, so we have something bike related when we're not riding. This articles are meant to be fun, enjoyable, and informative. Sure there are few riders that will be able to afford and appreciate a 12K bike, but we can all dream, it's not about bang for your buck with a bike like that. It's about making a statement and showing how the technological envelope can be pushed. I'm sure most of us have never heard of carbon iso-truss tubing, and would care less about it's applications. But to see it applied to something we all love: the mountain bike, is pretty damn cool. What fun would car magazines be if all they reviewed were civics, minivans, and suburbans. What makes a magazine like that fun is reading about the exotic cars, not the average commuter. Likewise with bikes so whats the big deal if MBA throws something exotic at us. All you haters need to stop hating and ride your bike more, enjoy life, and don't get caught up in stupid arguments cause it's taking away from your riding time. On a personal note I have ridden the Delta 7 Arrantix, and its an amazing bike and a marvel of engineering. I have never ridden a race bike that was as stiff, compliant, and snappy as the arrantix. Enough said, our sport is about fun so stop making it lame with all of your whining, *****ing, and complaining. To anyone that read my whole statement....Thanks.


I can't believe you took the time to write all that. Or read this thread.

I'll go so far as to agree with you on oggling the bling.

But from a readability standpoint, MBA still sucks, and I can't even wipe my ass with it. So how 'bout we don't intertwine these two separate whiney rants.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Paladin said:


> The USofA is not in a recession. A recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth. We have not had even one, lately. Last quarter was over 3% positive growth.


Oh, right. "Economic downturn."


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## Mt.Biker E (Mar 25, 2006)

Kona0197 said:


> I remember there for awhile MBA was on a Specialized/Intense thing were it seemed that's all they talked about and tested.


Now its any bike with VPP. I swear they must have stock in it.

Plus all the reviews take place in Cali or out west. Does not do me any good living on the east coast up in NE. My dad a few yrs back purchased a 5.5 mostly off of the reviews of MBA & found that in CT VPP stunk due to the slow craggy rocky hilly riding we have. I'm guessing out west where you have long climbs & long descents vpp is great.

MBA used to be good years back before they gave a crap about advertisers. If i bike blows they used to tell it like it is. Now you have to read between the lines & take tone into consideration trying to figure out if a bike really got a good review or not.


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## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

Brilliantly put gotmojo? Do I read MBA? yup and I watch wrestling too even though I know its fake. It's just entertainment like a James Bond movie sometimes you have to turn off the linear thoughts and take it for what it is. If you don't like MBA, easy don't subscribe. I don't. I'll look at it in a book store and if its not addressing anything I'm remotely interested in I use that money on something else. I forgot who was the guy who said why is RC testing bikes when he looks old and like a beginner, but truth is he's the guy behind alot of interesting bikes and helped push the sport look for newer materials and applications of them. That said he probably knows and understands more about bikes than any other editor for any other magazine. I don't always agree with what he says or the way he says things but give him respect.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> Likewise with bikes so whats the big deal if MBA throws something exotic at us


The whole point is that's* ALL* they seem to test...


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## ddraewwg (Jul 22, 2004)

Kona0197 said:


> The whole point is that's* ALL* they seem to test...


If you're getting all PO'd about the most recent issue, they actually said that they wouldn't buy the Arantix or however it's spelled. I'm sure that they were skeptical as well and even before testing it, they probably were 99% sure that they would never spend that much money on it. That doesn't mean that they didn't want to test it eventhough it may be a foregone conclusion.

If everyone is so upset by this....and really there are A LOT of posts with people really REALLY pissed off by this mag, get over it....don't read it. I'm so amused with the rants. It's like you think they're beholden to you to change the way they do things. If they don't, you as a consumer have the right and you should have the common sense to LOOK ELSEWHERE. They don't owe you jack $hit. You may say "they're stupid because they're losing ME as a subscriber and hundreds, thousands of others" How do you know they're subscriber base is bad/down/lower? They are a business and they can run it whatever way they want. Frankly, I find Bike, Mountain biking, decline, DR, worthless.....that's why I don't read it. OR if I do, I don't go gripin' about why it was so bad. IYoure basically saying "I know I'm not going to like this.....but I'll do it anyways", then getting PO'd because it was as bad as you thought it would be.


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## pakdoc (Dec 4, 2005)

I wish they would do a WalMart vs Target bike shootout.


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## canadian-clydesdale (Oct 13, 2004)

yes MBA is a farce, this is hardly news.

For all the folks in a lather about the $12000 bike review, here is a counter point:

http://www.fatcyclist.com/2007/12/0...-7-sports-maker-of-the-arantix-mountain-bike/

enjoy


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## ddraewwg (Jul 22, 2004)

canadian-clydesdale said:


> yes MBA is a farce, this is hardly news.


I find _that_ "review" to be a farce.


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## jayjudy13 (May 8, 2004)

Paladin said:


> The USofA is not in a recession. A recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth. We have not had even one, lately. Last quarter was over 3% positive growth.


Good, you used your Econ 101 for something. 

We are really feeling that 3% of "positive growth" This country is rocking right now. (Right.... Interweb sarcasm intended.)

Anyway, I think MBA is a pretty weak mag, but if you want to know about cheap bikes, go to an LBS. They don't call it "bike porn" for nothing.


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## canadian-clydesdale (Oct 13, 2004)

ddraewwg said:


> I find _that_ "review" to be a farce.


No foolin!

It's called humour, it is meant to lift one's spirts in laughter, don't take it so seriously.


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## ddraewwg (Jul 22, 2004)

canadian-clydesdale said:


> No foolin!
> 
> It's called humour, it is meant to lift one's spirts in laughter, don't take it so seriously.


Yeah...no worries. Was not being serious either. Sarcasm doesn't come across so well in text. :thumbsup:

OT slightly: Talking about completely worthless mags, I snowboard and get a free subscription to Transworldsnowboard. That is THEEE most useless mag ever. It's basically a bunch of ads....seriously. I don't think there's more than a few pages worth of editorial. Compared to that, MBA is an encyclopedia of knowledge.


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## d-bug (Mar 18, 2005)

Johnny Hair Boy said:


> I don't mind MBA. I find the dream bikes test fun. I like some of the other mags too but I refuse to by or read Dirt Rag because of all the left wing political bull $hit in there.


I refuse to read Dirt Rag, but for a different reason. They never test bikes I would ride. I could careless about titanium singlespeed rigid 29ers, commuters, CX bikes, the latest townie, beer (yeah I said beer), artsy fartsy stories about some dudes search for a bike or trying to get laid. The ONLY cool thing about the mag was the photos the readers sent in. 
That's a subscription I will never renew.

I recall always being excited when the latest issue of Dirt Rag came in the mail. Within 2 minutes I have thumbed through all the articles realizing there was nothing there of interest to me. I would rather sit on the toilet and study for an MCSE than read Dirt Rag. At least I'll get something useful out of studying.

The UK bike mags seem to be the best IMO, but I can never tell how much anything costs 

YMMV


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

dan51 said:


> The UK bike mags seem to be the best IMO, but I can never tell how much anything costs


Except Mbr, they review all the right bikes but seem incapable of making it a fair and objective review and they say some really stupid things&#8230;


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

dan51 said:


> I would rather sit on the toilet and study for an MCSE than read Dirt Rag. At least I'll get something useful out of studying.


Whats that, a server monkey job? Better grab some cisco press stuff instead.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> If everyone is so upset by this....and really there are A LOT of posts with people really REALLY pissed off by this mag, get over it....don't read it


The point I'm trying to make is that we as a whole would like to see MBA tune it down and test bikes we can afford. I like reading - I just don't like reading about stuff I can never afford over and over.

I see your point though...


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## xcmtber (Mar 22, 2006)

*http://forums.mtbr.com/images/smilies/cryin.gif*

"Test bikes we all can afford" 
What you really mean is test bikes YOU can afford.  
MBA tests all, there is only so many.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Well I guess you got me there. But there are plenty of poor people that love mountain bike that think like me...


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## TLL (Apr 28, 2008)

big_slacker said:


> Or you could start your own magazine or online review site. Start out demoing by renting bikes from your LBS. Truly affordable stuff.


I was thinking of starting an online mountain bike site, where you could post a review or communicate with other riders on a variety of topics, but figured it wouldn't be popular.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Wouldn't that be just like this site?


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## dusthuffer (Nov 30, 2006)

If I had to pick one thing to change about MBA I would have them stop with the "jokes". The humor they try is forced, bad, like not funny, it was mildly cute the first time I read it now it just makes my stomach turn and it's not getting any better. It's like the kind of humor somebody reading the magazine in Austria who has English as a second language would find hilarious. These MBA guys could walk into the best party and just stop conversation dead as soon as they open their mouths. Also, on the reviews, instead of the same guys year after year doing the reviews, it would be better if they regularly had top local expert XC and DH racers do some of their reviews. It's not like MBA doesn't have access to the top racers (they are based right here in the valley) they know exactly who to contact.


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## NA1NSXR (May 8, 2008)

xcmtber said:


> "Test bikes we all can afford"
> What you really mean is test bikes YOU can afford.
> MBA tests all, there is only so many.


Not everyone thinks of their ride as a reflection of what they can afford. Studies have shown that most financially successful people have the opposite way of thinking and are more prudent in their spending. People who spend more are often poorer, the big example being cars and of course lately, homes.

Anyway, I think all people are trying to say is that hammering the high end into our brains gets boring quickly. I know at least for the automotive and technology magazines and websites I read, the most exciting articles are often the ones covering products that make value breakthroughs or bring something new to the midrange - these are the developments that shape mountain biking the most because they represent changes that will affect the largest portion of riders. It's why $25K sporty car comparos are fun to read, or why new $200 computer graphics card champions are a big deal.

Or, let me put it another way: the fact that some $6000 bike shaved 200g over last years model or altered its suspention pivot design slightly is not fun or useful reading - regardless of what your MTB budget is.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> Or, let me put it another way: the fact that some $6000 bike shaved 200g over last years model or altered its suspention pivot design slightly is not fun or useful reading - regardless of what your MTB budget is.


Exactly. Well said.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Don't make blanket assumptions*

Maybe no one you know can afford an $11,000 bike but don't assume there are not buyers out there. Its fun to read about things at all ends of the spectrum, not just middle of the road rides.

This is like the thread a while back that b!tched about the price of a pair of Sidi shoes. If you think it's too much, don't buy them. $11,000 is not very much money. It's a heck of a lot less than a decent new car and is better for both the rider and the environment.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Some of us work all year and do not even see 11K at tax time. Think about that.

It's not only the fact that MBA will not quit testing uber expensive bikes it's also their attitude that seems to rub it in your face that they can test those bikes but they know ppl can't afford them...


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*What's your point?*

MBA should just publish reviews of Walmart bikes because everyone can afford them? Some of us can afford an $11,000 bike. Whether or not we think it is worth it is an other issue but stop trying to drag the world down to your level of economic comfort. For all its faults, MBA does review bikes at a much lower dollar level.

The issue you are having problems with has a review of the Fisher HiFi Deluxe @$2420, Delta 7 Sports Arantix @ $7000 for the frame, $11,995 as tested, GT's 2009 lineup with bikes costing much less than $11,000, Scott Genius LTD @ $11,499, Marin Vision Pro (no price listed), Jamis Dakar XAM 1 @ $2200, Morewood Mbuzi @ $5610, Specialized Safire Expert @ $3700, Trek Fuel EX 9.5 @ $6160 and Ellsworth Evolve 29er @ $5900.

I enjoyed reading about all these bikes but went to the articles on the high end ones first.

Personally, I like Giant bikes because they are reasonably priced and it is one manufacturer I can be sure is actually building the bikes they sell which can't be said for most companies.

Get over it. Magazines cater to our dreams, not our realities.......


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Kona0197 said:


> Some of us work all year and do not even see 11K at tax time. Think about that.


Holy chit, quit recreating and get another job! If you're flat broke then what are you doing farking around in the woods???

While I'm at it, put down the bike magazines too. Enroll in a community college and read something educational so you can improve your job outlook.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

I'm happy with the job I have thanks. I'm working full time.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> Personally, I like Giant bikes because they are reasonably priced and it is one manufacturer I can be sure is actually building the bikes they sell which can't be said for most companies.


I ride a Giant. Great bikes.


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## KeepTheRubberSideDown (Dec 1, 2006)

MBA sucks.


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

This is getting stupid, some people can afford expensive bikes and think it's worth it, that's fine, some people have to make do with cheaper bikes or buy cheaper bikes out of choice because they don't feel they need expensive ones which is also fine. I hope you don't read Mountain Bike and BIKE because I haven't seen them review a cheap bike in a long time. I for one find reading about expensive bikes interesting so just stop trying to press your own views onto others, if you want cheap bike reviews then have a look in some of the UK mags like Mbr, MBUK and WMB as every couple of issues they do a group test of cheapies and I know if you go to the right shop you can get most of the UK mags with the possible exception of Singletrack in the US.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Kona0197 said:


> I'm happy with the job I have thanks. I'm working full time.


Seriously, if you're working full-time and making less than $11,000 per year, don't complain about bikes being too expensive for the masses. $11,000 per year full-time is what, less than $6/hr.? You like your job but do you plan to do that forever? How long would it take you working an extra job to make $1000 to buy a new bike? A couple of months? You could do that over the winter and have a nice new bike for Spring.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Kona0197 said:


> Some of us work all year and do not even see 11K at tax time. Think about that.
> 
> It's not only the fact that MBA will not quit testing uber expensive bikes it's also their attitude that seems to rub it in your face that they can test those bikes but they know ppl can't afford them...


Man, under 12 k a year earnings? How can you live on that? Or do you mean an 11k tax refund (which would just be stupid to give the government that much extra money in the first place)?

MBA's attitude I've never found to be different on low end or high end stuff, but there is an attitude...

Maybe you should start BAMBA - Broke Ass Mountain Bike Action or CMBA -Cheap Mountain Bike Action....that should sell a bundle of copies to poor people, eh?

ps I really liked the guy who compared it to cancelling Playboy subscriptions because they're short on average-looking women....


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

11k net? I pay well over that in taxes, wow!

But don't take this the wrong way, if thats what you make its a straight up choice. I have a sister in law who moved to the US this year and she makes $14 an hour + tips. If its the area you're in, move if you want more. If you're happy, stay. But its not the fault of MBA that you're poor.

If I made 11k a year net I wouldn't be buying *ANY* magazines. Thats like half a bag of frozen chicken breasts!


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## Dawn Rider (Jun 23, 2007)

I have a subscription. It was a huge mistake. I'll try dirt rag next. I hate this mag!


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## AndysTrek (Jul 18, 2008)

Wow.... And here I thought makin 37 grand after taxes sucked. Just fell in love with my job all over again.... But, even at that middle road money, I can afford a much nicer bike than I ride, a much nicer place than I live in, and at least 1 better car of the 3 i drive. You CAN stretch money a long way, if ya take a little time to learn something. 

Just dropped 3 grand on some really stupid crap last month, and didn't think twice. Was it because I make so much money that's not a lot? Hells no! Thats still considered serious cash to me. But If you budget, spend wisely and save wiser, you can DEFAINTELY make do and still afford some nice crap to go along with a decent savings account. Make take a bit longer, but it makes it sweeter in the end.

If you love your job, 11 grand can make do. Don't let anyone give you any **** about it. I've lived COMFORTABLY on 15, and didn't even try to budget. Keep in mind everyone else, who doesn't know what "poor" is thanks to that skewed view you have of it, the more you make the more you spend. You can say no i don't, but what did you spend when you made $4 an hour in high school. Nothin. Then your first job, bought some crap. Then you got a raise, bought nicer crap. Maybe not more, but quality went up or went out to eat more, or drove more just cause you could afford to. Does it matter how crappy a magazine is or isn't when there's dikhead around here who give someone crap because they don't THINK he makes enough money? Quit reading anything that isn't self-help or how to influence people and make friends.... Geesh.


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## ddraewwg (Jul 22, 2004)

NA1NSXR said:


> Not everyone thinks of their ride as a reflection of what they can afford. Studies have shown that most financially successful people have the opposite way of thinking and are more prudent in their spending. People who spend more are often poorer, the big example being cars and of course lately, homes.
> 
> Anyway, I think all people are trying to say is that hammering the high end into our brains gets boring quickly. I know at least for the automotive and technology magazines and websites I read, the most exciting articles are often the ones covering products that make value breakthroughs or bring something new to the midrange - these are the developments that shape mountain biking the most because they represent changes that will affect the largest portion of riders. It's why $25K sporty car comparos are fun to read, or why new $200 computer graphics card champions are a big deal.
> 
> Or, let me put it another way: the fact that some $6000 bike shaved 200g over last years model or altered its suspention pivot design slightly is not fun or useful reading - regardless of what your MTB budget is.


Most of what you said is just pure opinion. What you decide is "affordable" or "useful reading" is just your opinion. Try considering that a magazine's goal isn't to cater to one person's interest but to the "general" public. If the articles/opinions/direction wasn't interesting to the mast majority of readers, the mag would quickly disappear.

Magazines are just like any business and are out to make money. The fact that MBA is the most popular magazine means that they are successful in reaching a greater number or readers that are interested in their articles vs those that are opposed to them or find them "boring"

The problem is that those that are complaining about this magazine basically have no right to. You don't have a say in what they choose to write so if you find it not useful, then why read it. You're foolish reading material that you think is bad and even more foolish for complaining about it. They're not obligated to report reviews or provide editorials based on factual data.....magazines are more about entertainment than anything else and if you're looking for anything more, then you're on a fool's quest.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> Seriously, if you're working full-time and making less than $11,000 per year, don't complain about bikes being too expensive for the masses. $11,000 per year full-time is what, less than $6/hr.?


I make almost 9 dollars an hour. This isn't about how poor I am though. It's about the attitude of MBA.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Wait...people _pay_ to read MBA? Dear god, why? Horribly written and edited tripe. Check it out at the book store.

(full disclosure: subscriptions of bike and dirtrag are in the house, likely to not be renewed, as i'm happy with web content)

Laptop. Wireless. Just as easy now to read bike crap while taking a crap.


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## Soba (Jul 30, 2006)

(disclaimer: i only skimmed the thread)

The reason i think MBA doesn't review many cheaper bikes is the simple fact that they don't have much to review about them. You average budget to midlevel hardtail has had virtually the same frame for the last 8 years or so, albeit maybe for small tweaks, and as a rule geometry and weight vary very little between most brands. For the most part, cheaper full sus design is similar to their higher end brothers, so a review of the top of the line model will often tell you what you need to know about the basic entry-level version. The components stuck on these bikes define how good they are and knowledgable shop staff are a much better resource for that than MBA which only has a page and a half to make sweeping judgements (and frequently contradicts itself...), as well as your LBS knowing how things perform in your local area instead of easy-on-parts SoCal where MBA is based.

I read magazines to see whats new in the bike world... remember that this year's highend carbon lust machine is next year's affordable option when the R+D is paid off!


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## Soba (Jul 30, 2006)

pakdoc said:


> I wish they would do a WalMart vs Target bike shootout.


They actually did that, ten or so years ago, to see whether a $150 bike would handle real riding. The short answer is, they didn't.

Another point i forgot to mention is that MBA can only review the bikes the manufacturers send them, so it's no shock that the blingest bikes get sent their way.

Anyway, **** magazine, offers insane opinions that are frequently way off the mark and then contradicts itself several times in one issue. In the latest one that made its way here, they commend Jamis on using 'more powerful' Juicy 7s over XT brakes on their bigger bike, then a few pages over refer to XTs as something along the lines of 'a super powerful stopper that matches any competition'. It probably wouldn't annoy me so much if they didn't preface every opinion with 'WE think', as if they had come to some super combined decision. I'd take anything they say with a grain of salt and just look at the pretty bling.

Edit: Haha, you crazy Americans and your censorship.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Kona0197 said:



> I make almost 9 dollars an hour. This isn't about how poor I am though. It's about the attitude of MBA.


Sorry, when you made the comment about "some of us make less than $11,000 per year" I thought you were referring to yourself. I extrapolated the hourly wage based on the annual earnings number.

I think your original complaint was that MBA tests bikes that you cannot afford. I think you interpret that as "MBA has an attitude problem." The magazine is not being elitist so much as their target audience is enthusiasts who can justify spending thousands of dollars on a hobby (note "hobby" i.e., unnecessary luxury item).

I can't help thinking of the analogy of some guy shopping for a car to get to his fast food worker job and complaining that "Road & Track magazine only tests $60,000 and up sports cars." He's looking in the wrong place. He should be looking in Autotrader for a used Honda rather than in an enthusiast magazine at new BMW's.

If you and your friends are affected by the economy, then maybe this isn't the time to be shopping for new bikes in an enthusiast magazine? If you are only looking and not earnestly shopping, then who cares how much the price tag is?

Envy is evil...with two different letters...in different places...


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## Team Fubar Rider (Sep 3, 2003)

The other thing to consider is the bike magazines (with some exception) test stuff the bike companies send them. If Scott (in this case) calls up and says, "We'd like to send you our $11,000 no-holds-barred flagship mountain bike," do you think they (or you) would say no?

I am sure magazines _could_ ask for a lower end bike, but why would they? They, like most of us, don't make gobs of money. I am sure they relish the chance to ride bikes they can't afford either.

That all being said, I think there are a lot more objective magazines out there. I think Dirt Rag has the best testing method, with a 6 week test, reviewed by their peers. Their tests mostly say the stuff that worked on the bikes and the stuff that didn't. They don't weigh in (much) on their final opinion of the bikes or stuff they test. They mostly give you the facts of the product, what was good and bad and let you decide from there.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> I think your original complaint was that MBA tests bikes that you cannot afford. I think you interpret that as "MBA has an attitude problem." The magazine is not being elitist so much as their target audience is enthusiasts who can justify spending thousands of dollars on a hobby (note "hobby" i.e., unnecessary luxury item).


Not quite my motivation. I'm sick of reading review after review of 5K or 6K or 9K bikes. Where are the bikes we ride at 2K?


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## dusthuffer (Nov 30, 2006)

Yeah to stay on topic, I think testing an 11K bike is totally a waste of space and a dis-service to their subscribers. There are SO MANY bikes around 2K that are damn good.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

dusthuffer said:


> Yeah to stay on topic, I think testing an 11K bike is totally a waste of space and a dis-service to their subscribers. There are SO MANY bikes around 2K that are damn good.


EXACTY the point I'm trying to make and say. Thanks.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Kona0197 said:


> Not quite my motivation. I'm sick of reading review after review of 5K or 6K or 9K bikes. Where are the bikes we ride at 2K?


You're not getting the point that "we" aren't a homogeneous group who all ride $2K bikes. I know very many people who ride bikes costing well over double that price.


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## Manning (Apr 11, 2007)

I wonder if the OP actually read the review, or the cover blurb?

The cover blurb says........ "$11995 hardtail! Have we gone off the deep end?" I interpret that as "golly, this is rediculously expensive"

At the end of the review it asks the question "would we buy it?" The answer was "no". 

I think they are saying it's too expensive. I may be wrong.....

I do read MBA and the other mags for the entertainment value. Kind of like watching TV. I don't expect too much.


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## nuggets (Jul 7, 2008)

I can't afford the 1K bikes you guys all say is a must, why would I read a rag about 11K bikes? Show me some quality $300-$400 bikes. Don't say there aren't any, I have a Haro at $300 new and is an excellent bike. Anyway I learn a lot more on this web site than I could from any magazine. Keep up the good work MTBR!:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

I think the point is that if you're sick of reading these reviews then you are not the target audience for MBA and should read another mag. Why rage against it when there are plenty of other things to spend your time on? (Like riding your bike) :madman:

You can see in this thread that there are folks that ride 4k bikes, 2k bikes, $600 bikes, $300 bikes and guess what, I ran into a guy on the trail the other day riding a delta 7 arantix. He probably reads MBA.



Kona0197 said:


> Not quite my motivation. I'm sick of reading review after review of 5K or 6K or 9K bikes. Where are the bikes we ride at 2K?


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> You're not getting the point that "we" aren't a homogeneous group who all ride $2K bikes. I know very many people who ride bikes costing well over double that price.


Well maybe I'm not speaking for you then. Ride on...



> I wonder if the OP actually read the review, or the cover blurb?


Yes I did. It's not only that bike. It's the whole attitude or gesture that they must test rides above 5K all the time. I do not mind a test of a 5K bike as long as for every test of a high end bike they also do a test of a low end bike.



> I think the point is that if you're sick of reading these reviews then you are not the target audience for MBA and should read another mag. Why rage against it when there are plenty of other things to spend your time on? (Like riding your bike)


Sorry. I have every issue since 2000. I am collecting them more or less. It's a bad habit.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Still raging against the machine! 

Keep in mind that many bikes offered at 2, 3 or 4 k often are bikes available at lower price points with lower level components, so the review is still somewhat valid for the lower priced bikes. When MBA reviews something available as a frame only, they hang their choice of parts and test it as if it's a complete bike, which is kind of silly. The reviews don't mean much over time either since usually you don't know who specifically tested what so that their ongoing opinions mean much. Specific component reviews mean more, and I think MBA does that somewhat better. Also, they review everything based on a ride in SoCal, which really leaves out a lot of riding conditions...

I just threw out, when moving, my first several years worth of my MBA subscription (like 92-96 something like that); I was sure I was at one point going to do something with them. I used to subscribe to every mag available (saved all of them along with the MBAs), road and mountain oriented. Over time they mostly just repeat themselves unless something really different comes along, which isn't happening all that often. Bicycling magazine is the king of repeat, though and that keeps arriving in the mail even though I don't subscribe to it, nor any others any longer. My roommate buys MBA so I get a free read when it's time to take a crap....


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Kona0197 said:


> Well maybe I'm not speaking for you then. Ride on...


Perhaps likewise MBA is not speaking for you then. Read something else. It sounds to me as if you're as likely to change as is MBA.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Good point. Thanks.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Thank you everyone for your points.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Since this thread was largely based on a review of this....http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=454939


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## dh_drew (Sep 9, 2008)

I like flipping through DECLINE. They have interesting articles and a good amount of pictures.


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## Sally Scale (Sep 15, 2008)

Fancy Hat said:


> MBA sucks, once you've read one you've read them all.
> 
> Your best bet is to ignore MBA, flip through the pretty pictures in BIKE, and read Dirt Rag.
> 
> On a side note, "Mountain Bike" was pretty good in it's day, but that day came and went.


I like the pretty pictures...they need more girls


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## qbert2000 (Jul 30, 2008)

i find british mags to be better at reviews and tech artcles. like mbuk mountain bike rider etc. they cost more but seem to be written a lot better and be more honest in their reviews


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## AndysTrek (Jul 18, 2008)

It just occured to me: One point brought up against MBA was the monotony of the articles, and the "every issue is essentially the same" argument. Yet, throughout 6 pages of ramblings, the OP continues to press the exact same point, using the exact same argument, and dismissing any new point of view not in line with his own. Wow.... For all the reasons you hate MBA, I now hate you.


Sept. 2008 issue:
"The MBA wrecking crew has been accused of being an elitist bunch of riders. We plead guilty your honor. We are in the unique position of being able to ride a ridiculous number of test bikes every year. We are not talking about a ride around a parking lot, or holding the front brake while cycling the fork through its travel a few times. ".....


CDale Rise Carbon 1 - $5600
Foes Prolite - $2549
Giant Reign XO - $3800
Spec Demo 8 II - $6300
Marin Wolf Ridge - $3100
Trek Session 88's - $ no price mentioned... around $6300?
Trek 6000/67000 - $750/1150

Hey, there's a list, in order, of the bikes tested in that months issue. If you can't find something in your price range, or a bike that is close, so you may have to downgrade one model, you're incompetent and lookin for a reason to argue. From $750 hardtails, to $6300 DH cruiser. Come on. Thats the median riders right there buddy.


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## Shelbak73 (Nov 10, 2007)

11k for a bicycle?
Ever heard the term "_Gear Queer_" ? In mountain bike terms it's for people who are more about the _BLING_ than the bike. Every consumer market has 'em, just like every consumer specific group of magazines has their MBA.


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## AndysTrek (Jul 18, 2008)

okay... it just got deleted. No more being mean to people....


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

*Did you bother to read the review?*



Kona0197 said:


> I was very angry to see that MBA is testing a 11 thousand dollar hardtail this mouth. The other tested bikes are just as expensive. We are in the middle of a recession and no one I know can afford five thousand or more on a bike.
> 
> So I was wondering how many other people think MBA has lost it and should test bikes we all can afford and get off their high horse?


I've a quick question for you. Did you bother to read the review? They concluded by saying that they WOULD NOT buy this bike. So, really, what's your problem with the review?

I ride a ten year old steel hardtail, and most of the bikes that they review do not interest me. On the other hand, I live in SoCal, so I read their tire reviews at the newsstand and make note of tires that I might want to try whenever I am in the market for new tires.

Going back to the $11,000 hardtail, I thought that it was interesting. I mean, it's a weird looking, expensive mountainbike that is made with a new material, partly as a design excercise, if I remember correctly. Nothing wrong with that. Anybody remember the $26,000 Boralyn hardtail about 12-15 years ago?

What bothers me about current MTB prices is that the custom, handmade steel MTBs such as Curtlo, Rocklobster, and Soulcraft can now be built into total bargains, relative to the overpriced, overdesigned, full suspension Taiwanese [email protected]#$ that Specialized and others are pushing onto the sales floor. Lame.


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

And, in the defense of MBA, Richard Cunningham has devoted a lot of column space to talk about trail access. I generally enjoy his column.

--Antoine


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## TLL (Apr 28, 2008)

TLL said:


> I was thinking of starting an online mountain bike site, where you could post a review or communicate with other riders on a variety of topics, but figured it wouldn't be popular.
> 
> 
> Kona0197 said:
> ...


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## Flappy (Sep 14, 2008)

That this bike was put into production made it a test in the Magazine. I am sure the responses here will reverberate in the Magazine Letters. 
I think the HammerSchmidt set-up is more of a joke.


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## BonzoisGonzo (Sep 28, 2008)

Kona0197 said:


> I was very angry to see that MBA is testing a 11 thousand dollar hardtail this mouth. The other tested bikes are just as expensive. We are in the middle of a recession and no one I know can afford five thousand or more on a bike.
> 
> So I was wondering how many other people think MBA has lost it and should test bikes we all can afford and get off their high horse?


going back to the july issue of with the 800$$ shootout,,i agree they should try to keep things in there readers range


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Really relative. Rock lobster frames are $1200 for a steel hadtail. Soulcraft is $1600? As the price creeps closer to 2k I'd be looking at Ti instead. 



Vlad said:


> I've a quick question for you. Did you bother to read the review? They concluded by saying that they WOULD NOT buy this bike. So, really, what's your problem with the review?
> 
> I ride a ten year old steel hardtail, and most of the bikes that they review do not interest me. On the other hand, I live in SoCal, so I read their tire reviews at the newsstand and make note of tires that I might want to try whenever I am in the market for new tires.
> 
> ...


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## jhazard (Aug 16, 2004)

I saw that issue on the shelves here, scoffed at it, and picked up Decline to page through. 

I don't know what MBA's target market it - but it does not include me. It's not the attitude though, its more the style. Its 100% mass mountain bike media, and one has to take it for what it's worth. I appreciate the style of Dirt Rag, Decline, and Singletrack a little more. They seem a little more personal, as if they are written by "enthusiasts" rather than people that are paid to write about mountain bikes. 

MBA has always tested high bikes, to my recollection anyhow. It boggles my mind that one can even assemble a bike that costs over 11k. I remember lusting after bikes for $1500, and now that's almost entry level anymore. Nutty. Anyhow, I buy used.

Peace.


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## RogerDoger (Sep 20, 2008)

So they take the time and mag space to test out a bike that in the end they would never buy? Perhaps the title should be "An $11k bike we would not buy" just to save people the time.

What they should do is test Santa Cruz bikes...lol.

I don't put any stock in a magazine that clearly represents one brand over all others yet still maintains that they are neutral. I don't even read the magazine when it's free.


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## crakkillsdaily (Apr 10, 2008)

mba sucks that is your first prob. and just because your broke ass can't afford an $11,000 bike doesn't mean that should review $600 hardtails.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

*So..*



Kona0197 said:


> I was very angry to see that MBA is testing a 11 thousand dollar hardtail this mouth. The other tested bikes are just as expensive. We are in the middle of a recession and no one I know can afford five thousand or more on a bike.
> 
> So I was wondering how many other people think MBA has lost it and should test bikes we all can afford and get off their high horse?


when you read road and track you wish they only reviewed econo-boxes? When you read Rolling Stone you wish they only reviewed local cheap bands? When you read dog fancy you wish they only highlighted mutts from the pound?

That is the purpose of magazines. Show you the high end because it is a consumerist magazine. You want to read about those things, it gives you something to dream about. If they only reviewed bikes that we all could ride you would buy the one that reviewed the bike you were interested in and then stop buying it.

They are a business...not a public service. Get a Consumer report subscription if you want to see what everything pedestrian is rated. Get a glossy if you want to dream about the acme of mountain biking or whatever.


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

rockcrusher said:


> when you read road and track you wish they only reviewed econo-boxes? When you read Rolling Stone you wish they only reviewed local cheap bands? When you read dog fancy you wish they only highlighted mutts from the pound?
> 
> That is the purpose of magazines. Show you the high end because it is a consumerist magazine. You want to read about those things, it gives you something to dream about. If they only reviewed bikes that we all could ride you would buy the one that reviewed the bike you were interested in and then stop buying it.
> 
> They are a business...not a public service. Get a Consumer report subscription if you want to see what everything pedestrian is rated. Get a glossy if you want to dream about the acme of mountain biking or whatever.


I would wonder, do these 'high end haters' skim porn along the lines of 'Middle-aged flabby Divorcées'? Or do they go for something more lustful? 
CDT


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## dusthuffer (Nov 30, 2006)

Hey! How did you know I read Dog Fancy???


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## Kcnflman (Jun 30, 2008)

Has anyone considered this for the morning read / dump / commute? :thumbsup:


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Kcnflman said:


> Has anyone considered this for the morning read / dump / commute? :thumbsup:


Ha! Where do the magazines go?


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## w00t! (Apr 28, 2008)

CdaleTony said:


> I would wonder, do these 'high end haters' skim porn along the lines of 'Middle-aged flabby Divorcées'? Or do they go for something more lustful?
> CDT


hahahahaha

LAWLZ!


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## Spartacus Rex (Dec 18, 2006)

*Speaking of MBA...*

Did anyone catch the RC's editorial in the last issue? He mentioned "...talking to the CEO of a large online mountain bike forum".

MTBR perhaps?


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## BonzoisGonzo (Sep 28, 2008)

*sweet ride*



Kcnflman said:


> Has anyone considered this for the morning read / dump / commute? :thumbsup:


how much and how many are there?ill take one


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## tylerdurden119 (Jan 11, 2008)

*sour grape syndrome*

There has been a few letters written in MBA expressing this and as you seem a subscriber I suggest you check their response. People need to stop complaining you are so off base its crazy, they, in the last year have done two meat and potatoe bike shootouts a sub 1000 and a 1500. As well I have seen great reviews on a few bikes in that price range and below. 1-giant yukon fx 2 and a KHS thats name eludes me at the present. But both were good bikes, good value and performance coming from mba's mouth. You got sour grapes cause you can't afford one well **** neither can I nor probably 95% of their subscribers, but its new and exciting and people want to read about it and see some pics. Look at how many people pop tents when a new spy shot comes out or a new bike is released that is on the cutting edge of technology. As long as your enjoying your time riding who cares what bike your on.

On another note I don't find the mag all that bad, content is a little weaksauce but its decent. The bike tech section is pretty nice. If I were buying it off the shelf well then yeah it ain't worth it, but if you subscribe it;s lilke a couple bucks.


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## noshortcuts (Nov 29, 2005)

I used to subscribe before I knew more, but the more I know about mountain biking, the less I like/trust MBA. When I do read it any more, it's usually because I'm addicted to mountain biking. Too often it's the only mtb mag on the racks and when I'm jonesing.... well, I'll occasionally settle for it over nothing.


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## nuggets (Jul 7, 2008)

I guess I don't have the right to be that critical of this mag. Just cause I can't afford such bikes doesn't mean others can't. There are mags out there that can speak to us all so if you don't agree with Action's policies don't buy it but don't belittle it. Written with a much clearer head. Thanks for letting express my feelings.


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## ghawk (Sep 14, 2007)

I used to subscribe when the reviews were more critical and they were young and not worried about offending anyone. 
Not anymore.


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## BRKNSPOKE (Jan 2, 2007)

MBA SUCK! There a bunch of sell outs!


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

BRKNSPOKE said:


> MBA SUCK! There a bunch of sell outs!


http://www.wikihow.com/Use-There,-Their-and-They're


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Reviving this thread to get more opinions before I send a link to it to MBA. Didn't have a chance to fire it off to MBA last year as I went offline for a bit.


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## mountain_bomber156 (Feb 17, 2009)

Like one guy said in one of the letters he sent to them, 

"Thanks to MBA for reviewing high-dollar bikes. Riders have to know that the R&D on these expensive bikes will be passed down to less expensive models in just a couple of years. If you can't afford a $1k bike, I must question your priorities. It always brings a smile to my face when I see a $1500 bike on top of a $200 rusted-out Subaru..."
- Wayne Wittrock

and:

"Do riders who complain about expensive bike tests in MBA also complain when Car and Driver test trives a Ferrari or Porsche? ..."
-Roger D

and: 

"The rider explaining his issue with the high cost of bikes reviewed in MBA is missing the point of the mag. Sure, the bikes tested are pretty high-zoot. I'm glad. I want to see the best of the best. I want to know what's so great about the latest 'look ma no bob' suspension. It's entertaining. Otherwise, just read the Toys-R-Us flyer and see what's new in their bike department."
-Phil Hallahan

They're all right. Sure, MBA does test expensive bikes, but the expensive ones are always the coolest, best ones. And, the point the haters seem to miss is that MBA does test at least one affordable bike every issue (at least the ones I own):

November 08: KHS Lucky 7
December 08: Cannondale 29er 2
January: One of the few exceptions.
February: Specialized Bighit FSR III
March: KHS XCT 555
April: Cannondale F5
May: Haro Sonix Comp
Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Comp
Santa Cruz Heckler
Giant Trance X2
Gary Fisher HiFi Plus
June: Haro Beasly SS
Gary Fisher Roscoe 
July: Diamondback Mission 2
Marin Nail Trail 29er
Commencal Supreme DH

Seriously! What kind of bikes do you all ride, to be calling MBA expensive?


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Kona0197 said:


> Reviving this thread to get more opinions before I send a link to it to MBA. Didn't have a chance to fire it off to MBA last year as I went offline for a bit.


I was about to write a comment but my wife told me not to waste my time. Good advice. I didn't follow it but you should.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

So Kona, when you link it through can you please ask what point there is to *any* bike test when the "score" includes parts that are supplied with the frame, rather than the bike set up to suit the individual buyer? So many reviews dis bikes because the stem is too long/short, the tyres are shite, the brakes had poor modulation, blah blah blah. Is any bike review worthy of your concern? Arantix at $11000000 may be a more accurate review than the average bike cause it doesn't come with el-cheapo compromises.

What the hell do I care. I read Dirt.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Dec 2, 2005)

I'm letting my subscription lapse for Dirt Rage and MBA.. I like Bike because the articles are pretty good.. and I like reading Bicycling for the roadie portion of my cycling. I'll be the first to say I get sick of seeing uber expensive bikes every single issue but it's a fact of life.. These bikes and parts exist because we're all sheep being told to buy them. The fact that we DO buy them is our fault.


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## cth978 (Feb 9, 2009)

if anyone does have the newest issue of MBA they are testing 7 bikes and most of them are well under 11000 dollars. they actually tested a new diamondback that i believe the msrp is only 1800. i dont see the problem with testing high end bikes for all to look at. To the OP if your only making 11000 a year before taxes then just walking into a bike shop must be a dream world for you. But back to the topic, I usually buy MBA because its the magazine with the most pages in it and it has alot more to read so thats really the only reason i get it.


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## Impalla (May 10, 2007)

I have never cared for MBA. I think a lot of what they test is not for the masses or even close. I'll skip the 11k mountain bike. 



Kona0197 said:


> I was very angry to see that MBA is testing a 11 thousand dollar hardtail this mouth. The other tested bikes are just as expensive. We are in the middle of a recession and no one I know can afford five thousand or more on a bike.
> 
> So I was wondering how many other people think MBA has lost it and should test bikes we all can afford and get off their high horse?


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## Evil Patrick (Sep 13, 2004)

Speedub.Nate said:


> Simple solution! Invest the $3.99 you spend on MBA into a 6% savings plan. In 45 years, you'll have enough saved up to buy an $11,000 bike.


Hmmm...

I think you may have forgotten to calculate the future value of the dollar. In 45 years, that
$11K bike will not be _only_ $11K when you find it in the "Vintage, Retro, Classic" forum.


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## north20 (Nov 25, 2007)

I'm not sure I've even opened a copy of MBA in the last decade, much less actually read it.

Bike magazine every now and then, and maybe Dirt Rag even more rarely. Bicycling and some others are down there with MBA. It's been a _very_ long time since I felt any printed cycling mag was worth the subscription price :skep:


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## mountain_bomber156 (Feb 17, 2009)

cth978 said:


> if anyone does have the newest issue of MBA they are testing 7 bikes and most of them are well under 11000 dollars. they actually tested a new diamondback that i believe the msrp is only 1800. i dont see the problem with testing high end bikes for all to look at. To the OP if your only making 11000 a year before taxes then just walking into a bike shop must be a dream world for you. But back to the topic, I usually buy MBA because its the magazine with the most pages in it and it has alot more to read so thats really the only reason i get it.


Yeah. Mountain Bike has like no meat and the reviews are...iffy, to say the least. Dirt Rag is good. But you're totally right.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Geez. Forget I said anything.


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## ae111black (Dec 27, 2008)

Kona0197 said:


> It's also funny how many times a Santa Cruz or Intense bike is tested...


I think they have stock in DW......................:eekster: :thumbsup:


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

Magazines are in the business of making readers feel inadequate enough to buy the products that are advertised. Women's fashion magazines invented this concept.

_these magazines are really just advertisements disguised as information? Could that be why they are out of touch?_

The articles you need to watch out for are the "advertorials," or ads that LOOK like articles. Usually they say "advertisement" in the top margin in teeny tiny print, and a slightly different font. While the content isn't necessarily advertising, it does need to be biased favorably toward the advertisers.

It's the advertisers who pay for the magazine's upkeep, not the subscribers. That's why it's easy to keep your subscription going even after you stop paying for it. Magazines that don't pander to advertisers are the most expensive for subscribers- like public radio/TV.

Would be fun if Dirt Rag reviewed the crazily high-end products- or any other magazine that's not beholden to those companies. I suppose a hand-crafted frame using Unobtanium would justify the cost of these bikes.


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## slowrider (May 15, 2004)

*Most mags suck*

I don't mind seeing the all out build from time to time; once you have been at this sport for a while a small percentage of us seek the lightest, best, most "blingy" bike available. I personally don't think a $500 bike test is very exciting, but I do want to see the full range of bikes tested so there is something for everyone. Most tests should be in the middle of the range, like most bike buyers.
The main reason I like to check out MBA is that when they test the stats are in a uniform format, I do wish they were more uniform in the format of the text as well. I also wish they would do a better editing job but thats a perfect examnple of the man in the glass house throwing rocks.


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## Clutchman83 (Apr 16, 2006)

Christine said:


> The articles you need to watch out for are the "advertorials," or ads that LOOK like articles. Usually they say "advertisement" in the top margin in teeny tiny print, and a slightly different font.


You have just described literally every single product review ever done in MBA. Except they don't put "advertisement" on their product reviews. Most of the good mags don't do this, I don't know why people keep buying MBA to be honest.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

MTBR is the schnizznit...

Mountain Bikes for REAL!


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## clintrosser (Apr 14, 2009)

Team Fubar Rider said:


> The only problem with getting ALL your info from the web, especially in the forums, is you don't know who is talking. I have friends in the bike industry and companies, like Specialized, have people that post content, look for rogue shops selling their stuff on eBay, etc. So someone saying they love a certain part could be an employee of that company. Not saying it happens all the time, but it definitely happens. At least (in theory) in a magazine article, it is one person's opinion. Less BS to wade through to get an answer.


Belkin (crappy aftermarket iPod accessories company) just hot busted for this. By the way, their product is garbage.


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## Huck Pitueee (Apr 25, 2009)

Kona0197 said:


> I was very angry to see that MBA is testing a 11 thousand dollar hardtail this mouth. The other tested bikes are just as expensive. We are in the middle of a recession and no one I know can afford five thousand or more on a bike.
> 
> So I was wondering how many other people think MBA has lost it and should test bikes we all can afford and get off their high horse?


lighten up.If you dont like a review flip the flippin page.I cant afford any bike for a while but it's fun to dream.I also bought two bikes after reading MBA reviews and the reviews were very accurate.I look forward kickin back in the hammoc with a beer and a fresh MBA.


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## mountain_bomber156 (Feb 17, 2009)

frikka said:


> lighten up.If you dont like a review flip the flippin page.I cant afford any bike for a while but it's fun to dream.I also bought two bikes after reading MBA reviews and the reviews were very accurate.I look forward kickin back in the hammoc with a beer and a fresh MBA.


*drop to knees* Amen!


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## CazzaMazza (Aug 21, 2007)

I have to say guys and no disrespect to anyone but all of the US bike mags are terrible. You have Decline that seems to just contain Ted Nugent concerts and NASCAR. Dirt Rag makes you feel like a no good POS for not riding a rigid ss commuter and the rest of them seem to just feed of each other with the same views! I miss being able to buy Dirt magazine and read a decent thought out bike magazine


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## BrakeL8 (Nov 30, 2008)

I also skip over those articles. I'm very fortunate to be able to spend whatever I want on hobbies in life including bikes- however I agree with the comment on pg 1 regarding diminishing returns.

I'll take it one step further for me: I like riding bikes that I don't have to worry about. Pick that price range and ride that. What I mean by this is simply riding something that is 'just a bike' and if you break something you can afford to fix it. The passion of riding is in the riding aspect- NOT the 'what you're riding on' aspect. 

For me this is a 2009 Giant Trance X2- fits the bill perfectly for me and if it breaks it breaks, i'll buy another.

I couldn't imagine rolling around on a 5 figure bike only to go over the bars and see it bounce off into rocks cracking the frame. Especially as for me there is very little actual difference over a $2k bike. Since I actually ride- and get ZERO pleasure from admiring/cleaning/looking at my bikes the fact that it's 'expensive' does nothing for me- that's what the watch collection or cars are for. Bikes are for RIDING.

Lastly the thing I find the most comical are the folks riding these who couldn't pull up into a manual or wheelie for the life of them.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*I'm underwhelmed....*

And yet oddly attracted to this train wreck of a post.

Just because you have an opinion on something doesn't mean you can project that opinion to represent us. You're quite clearly frustrated because some of us don't agree with your opinion that there's no place in a magazine for bike reviews that don't fit in to your personal budget and life choices.

If you're still lusting after bikes and pouring over bike reviews in any magazine, then I suggest that it's possible you haven't found the right bike and component set up for you yet. Speaking only from personal experience and observations on my riding buddies, we all stopped talking tech and specs regarding the newest, latest and greatest bling to hit the market when we each found the right bike and component set up for us and our riding style.

Regarding opinions about magazines: Very few of the observations regarding the characteristics of a particular magazine are new. The magazines haven't "changed", your perspective has. What you used to find valuable, you no longer do.

The nostalgia for Mountain Bike is interesting. Because the knock on it was that it's basically just Road Bike but with mountain bikes and who cares about a bunch of XC racer boys? Was it a good magazine? Sure, if you liked it. Is MBA a good magazine? I suppose it is too, if you like it.

DR? Sure, if you like it. A long time ago, DR offered lifetime subscriptions for something like $100. My girlfriend (now my wife) purchased it for me as a birthday present and I loved it! It was awesome! And I looked forward to DR showing up. I would set aside time to read it, cover to cover. I would reread the parts that I particularly liked. Now? I still like reading it but I'm never wondering when it will arrive. I don't read it cover to cover and never read a review all the way through. The magazine is still about the same as it was then but I've changed. The knock on DR 10 years ago? It focuses too much on the counter culture and not so much on FS or XC riding. Sound familiar?


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## BrakeL8 (Nov 30, 2008)

Ken in KC said:


> And yet oddly attracted to this train wreck of a post.
> 
> Just because you have an opinion on something doesn't mean you can project that opinion to represent us. You're quite clearly frustrated because some of us don't agree with your opinion that there's no place in a magazine for bike reviews that don't fit in to your personal budget and life choices.
> 
> ...


your observations are spot on- especially for those of us seasoned enough to remember most of these magazines in their early days and watch their metamorphosis into what they are today.

It's a classic 'grass is always greener' case.

I am the same way w/ DR- though one of the best articles they've done in ages was last month's look into Paul's life/business.

As someone who lusted after his components in the early 90's when I couldn't afford them this was a fond look back and a more interesting look at his background which I thoroughly enjoyed.

We need more of this in my opinion, a look at what matters, instead of just writing to sell (and this is a tad hypocritical of me given that I"m in Advertising).


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

To the OP folks have been saying this about MBA for at least 15 years, maybe 20. As a shop lifer and bike history buff I've got most of the MBA issues between '90-'95 and can assure you that you're not the first person to think this. Nor are you the first person to mention this to MBA. You talking about MBA just makes them that more known. Wasn't it the Rolling Stones that said, "All press is good press."

Also looking back many years you can see that folks that talked about trickle down technology are 100% correct. What was cutting edge shock and brake tech years back can now be found on $175 Walmart Mongooses.

Relax and go for a ride and let others get on with the madness.


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## Commodus (May 30, 2009)

I think bicycles are hilariously inexpensive. I moved to Vancouver and realized I don't need a car or a motorcycle here, so I dusted off my old Giant bicycle and I ride it everywhere. It takes me to work, to school, up and down the trails, everywhere I want to go! I laugh every time I want to do an upgrade and someone says "wow man, that's an expensive (x), are you sure?"

Uh...a rear tire on my motorcycle costs over $300. I go through several a season. I can't even bunny hop my motorcycle! $100 on a CK headset that will last forever? Yeah I think I can swing that!

An upgrade? I think my Yosh exhaust was in the neighbourhood of $1500...and frankly the thing already made way more power than I'll ever need, so it was really just an aesthetic choice.

$1500, the price of just my exhaust, can buy me a fantastic bike that will last forever and provide both fun and transportation! Hell, the $300 tire could have bought me a great second hand bike on craigslist!

The most expensive bicycle in the world, that 11K hardtail everyone's talking about (okay I don't know if it's the most expensive bike) is STILL less than the asking price of virtually ANY new motorcycle or car! It's a bloody bargain if you ask me.

I like MBA. I like buying parts for my bike, even if I don't need them. As a machinist I'm always curious about new designs and parts. The writing is adequate for its audience. The last one I bought even had a bunch of tips on how to make me a better rider! It's true, though, I find there are too many reviews of new bikes. I mean really, how many new bikes is a guy going to buy? Surely one a year would be enough to sate even the most hardcore upgrade junkie. I'd like to see way more parts comparisons and way more stuff about actual riding.


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## OhioGuy82 (Sep 11, 2006)

It's the Dupont Registry for MTB's..


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## mountain_bomber156 (Feb 17, 2009)

Commodus said:


> The most expensive bicycle in the world, that 11K hardtail everyone's talking about (okay I don't know if it's the most expensive bike) is STILL less than the asking price of virtually ANY new motorcycle or car! It's a bloody bargain if you ask me.


Most expensive production bike is the Delta 7 Arantix/Ascent.
The Arantix is $20,000 complete and I think the Ascent is $20,000 frame only!

http://delta7sports.com/products.html


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## GrantB (Jan 10, 2004)

Look, man. Bike reviews are nonsense no matter the mag. They call it Bike Porn for a reason. It's meant to light the fire of dissatisfaction with your present ride by presenting you with a bright, shiny, unobtainable and unmaintainable ideal of what you are passionate about. It's illusory. 

What you, the OP, really want isn't more real world reviews in the mags. I get the feeling that what you really want is a sense of satisfaction with your present situation. Unfortunately, Richard Cunningham is never going to help you with that with bike reviews that are the equivalent of heavily retouched photos of nude college cheerleaders. 

You get me? We have to take responsibility for our own brains and forget all the other noise. Ride your bike, enjoy the ride and tune out the rest. Look for a stoke in the pages of a mag at your own peril.

That being said, I love Ask Chopper in Bike. He's usually a good antidote to this syndrome. As is Mike Ferrentino.


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## longhaultrucker (Jan 24, 2007)

MBA.....









Seriously,tho,they lost touch with reality years ago ,all they see is







.

The latest issue of Bike has only hi-dollar zoots in it too. Nothing wrong with occasionally showing off wonder bikes,but they need to remember their bread n butter too.


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## Clutchman83 (Apr 16, 2006)

longhaultrucker said:


> MBA.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really don't care about the $$$$$ reviews they do. I think thats fine. It's all the wrong information they print and the completely impartial reviews they write. They are the equivelant of getting a company catalog but worse because they will print the wrong geometry and contradictory ride info. I've read so many reviews by them where they say something along the lines of "the steep head angle benefitted the bike on the climbs" and then "the bike was extremely stable on the descent because of it's spot on geometry". Give me a fuggin break!!! That's not a bike review thats an ad!!!


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## Raineman (Feb 7, 2008)

HotBlack said:


> MBA is and has always been about advertising high-end bikes, with only the occasional bone thrown to the mid-range at the insistence of the mfg's they represent.
> 
> If you want flash & trash, MBA is your mag. Largely appeals to noobs and motosports/bmx crossovers.
> 
> ...


+1 I stopped subscribing a few years ago. It's an industry advertisement..


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## Tyler Kiefer (May 21, 2009)

mtbr os the best place to get serious product reviews. We riders are impartial and review without hidden motives i.e. pleasing their advertisers. It's all about bamboozling new riders to buy an expensive bike that will sit in a garage. It generates more short-term profit but in the long run will scare people away from the sport and cost big companies like MBA money.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Well I wrote MBA about this thread. I doubt they respond.


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## longhaultrucker (Jan 24, 2007)

Clutchman83 said:


> I really don't care about the $$$$$ reviews they do. I think thats fine. It's all the wrong information they print and the completely impartial reviews they write. They are the equivelant of getting a company catalog but worse because they will print the wrong geometry and contradictory ride info. I've read so many reviews by them where they say something along the lines of "the steep head angle benefitted the bike on the climbs" and then "the bike was extremely stable on the descent because of it's spot on geometry". Give me a fuggin break!!! That's not a bike review thats an ad!!!


I agree on that point as well


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Well Jimmy Mac wrote me back. All ha said was that MBA isn't for everyone. I don't think they even read this thread.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Kona0197 said:


> Well Jimmy Mac wrote me back. All ha said was that MBA isn't for everyone. I don't think they even read this thread.


Ha ha haw! In other words, "You are someone we'd just as soon not buy our publication. Go away now."


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Yes I gather that already.


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## mountain_bomber156 (Feb 17, 2009)

Kona0197 said:


> Yes I gather that already.


.


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## mountain_bomber156 (Feb 17, 2009)

Although, I understand why it is that MBA likes to test expensive bikes. Think of it this way: You're roaming around your local bike shop and see a gleaming carbon bike sitting on the floor. You ask how much and they say, e.g. $7500. You think "all right, a $7500 bike must be pretty sick," so you buy it. Then you realize two hours into your first ride that this bike was nothing like you expected... it pretty much sucks crap. They want to see if all the hype surrounding upper-atmosphere priced bikes is true or not, because you'd be pretty pissed if you dropped $7500 or whatever the price was on a bike that sucked. I guess if you spent, say, $1500 on a biek you wouldn't be so angry if the bike wasn't as good as you expected; you either upgrade the parts or return it or stow it away and buy another.

Or so you would expect... rft:


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

No - MBA tests high end bikes because they are arrogant and get paid from those manufactures to test those bikes. They say they don't but I bet they do.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Kona0197 said:


> Well Jimmy Mac wrote me back. All ha said was that MBA isn't for everyone. I don't think they even read this thread.


They might have read the thread, but why would it impress them? OTOH Jimmy Mac couldn't be bothered with the metric system. OTOH you like LDS. World is about choices, not following others...


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

I thought we agreed you would leave my religious choices out of your posts? Or would you like others picking on your beliefs?


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

I haven't actually read any of the print magazines, but I would venture that I WANT there to be a magazine that only reviews ridiculously priced items. I am incredibly obsessed with cars and the auto industry, and as a result read a lot of car mags. Some, like R&T and Automobile, only do high end stuff, others like C&D and Motor Trend, also do both, like Consumer Reports, only cover realistic cars. This is wonderful in that I can decide what I am in the mood to read. Sometimes i want to learn about say, the new Mustang. Other times, I want to read about the 911 GT2 or a Lamborghini. It just depends on my mood.

I would imagine the same is true for bikes. I'll occasionally want to read about the super high-end bikes that I cannot afford and that even if I could probably wouldn't buy. Other times I want more down-to-earth reviews.

From what little I've read here, the problem seems to be that there is not a great source of "average" reviews, and that all of the mags have issues with writing quality. THAT is a legitimate grievance, and one that needs to be rectified. Another legitimate one is a love of a certain brand to a level that displays clear favoritism. 

In the end, the solution is simple. If you don't like it, don't buy it. The free-market economy will decide whether MBA is successful or fails. And, regardless of your opinion on the bailouts, none of these magazine have an ice-cube's chance in hell of getting one, so the market works in this situation.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> From what little I've read here, the problem seems to be that there is not a great source of "average" reviews, and that all of the mags have issues with writing quality. THAT is a legitimate grievance, and one that needs to be rectified. Another legitimate one is a love of a certain brand to a level that displays clear favoritism.


Very good points. Thanks.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Kona0197 said:


> I thought we agreed you would leave my religious choices out of your posts? Or would you like others picking on your beliefs?


You agreed, pick away. Once you post 'em up, they're fair game...same goes for me and I've had my share too


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Be that as it may picking on someone's religion is still low and uncalled for. 

Anyhow...


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## charlesinoc (May 17, 2009)

I'm embarrassed to say I have both May and June issues in my bathroom. But I only buy the magazine to look at the advertisement from pricepoint, cambria..greenfish sports..ect. I've also been wondering why they haven't tested or reviewed a Ibis Mojo? Is there a conspiracy here? Or have they tested this bike?


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

They seem to only test Santa Cruz, Specialized, Giant and Titus on a regular basis. My thinking is they are paid by those guys. And no they haven't tested the Ibis Mojo.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Maybe this will make you feel better.
Near the bottom of the page.

http://www.site.hbcutthecoursein1990.com/Brian_Lopes_is_a_dick.html


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## IndecentExposure (Sep 25, 2006)

MBA goes directly to my sh!tter for reading material.... although I just look at the pictures usually.


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## IndecentExposure (Sep 25, 2006)

Kona0197 said:


> They seem to only test Santa Cruz, Specialized, Giant and Titus on a regular basis. My thinking is they are paid by those guys. And no they haven't tested the Ibis Mojo.


You're right. They're also very well paid by Kenda as well... You can tell because the Nevegal is the worst F'n tire on the planet. Most of you got consumed when you bought those POS.


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## mountain_bomber156 (Feb 17, 2009)

IndecentExposure said:


> You're right. They're also very well paid by Kenda as well... You can tell because the *Nevegal is the worst F'n tire on the planet*. Most of you got consumed when you bought those POS.


Duh.


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## robbyracer (Apr 9, 2009)

MBA is like Cosmo for mountain biking. The editor comes off as a eco geek elitist douchebag this month when talking about dragging your back wheel. Ok it's bad to tear up the trails by dragging your back wheel around I understand that and don't do it but instead of offering up advice or posting a link to more info he states that if you don't know how to brake properly then you should stay in the bike park and not ride public trails. Nice attitude, d!ckhead. 
MBA use to be cool back when they first came out but these days it's nothing more than a $5 book of ads.


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## robbyracer (Apr 9, 2009)

Kona0197 said:


> Well Jimmy Mac wrote me back. All ha said was that MBA isn't for everyone. I don't think they even read this thread.


Hahaha! I missed that earlier. 
Neither is Rock Racing. :thumbsup:


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

big_slacker said:


> Why all the economy comments? The economy being 'bad' or in a recession has nothing to do with testing expensive bikes. Its like saying ferrari should stop making cars because your gas bills have gone up. Boo Hoo.
> 
> The religious thing is just ridiculous. Lets make a magazine based on bling over substance, excessive consumption, but we're pure because we don't run ads for products named after 'evil stuff'. One more reason why religion is crap.


I like this guy!

And I'm one of the few who buy MBA at the LBS & like to read it, I guess.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

dan51 said:


> I refuse to read Dirt Rag, but for a different reason. They never test bikes I would ride. I could careless about titanium singlespeed rigid 29ers, commuters, CX bikes, the latest townie, beer (yeah I said beer), artsy fartsy stories about some dudes search for a bike or trying to get laid. The ONLY cool thing about the mag was the photos the readers sent in.
> That's a subscription I will never renew.
> 
> I recall always being excited when the latest issue of Dirt Rag came in the mail. Within 2 minutes I have thumbed through all the articles realizing there was nothing there of interest to me. I would rather sit on the toilet and study for an MCSE than read Dirt Rag. At least I'll get something useful out of studying.
> ...


Damn, dude, this is exactly how I feel about DR.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

charlesinoc said:


> I'm embarrassed to say I have both May and June issues in my bathroom. But I only buy the magazine to look at the advertisement from pricepoint, cambria..greenfish sports..ect. I've also been wondering why they haven't tested or reviewed a Ibis Mojo? Is there a conspiracy here? Or have they tested this bike?


i read mba also, or should I say check out the pics. I find it difficult to read and believe their bike reports. they drool over the specialized bikes, I owned one, hated it, but I digress.

I have seen a recent article on the ibis. it was the featured racers of the months bike. with marz stuff. but he was sponsored by Marz, he almost sucked me in on the Marz.. I bought a rs pike, love it.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Ken in KC said:


> If you're still lusting after bikes and *pouring* over bike reviews in any magazine,


Ken, it's _poring_. Sorry, but this is an itch I had to scratch.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Nat said:


> Ha ha haw! In other words, "You are someone we'd just as soon not buy our publication. Go away now."


lol. :thumbsup:


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