# wheelies/manuals - how much does the bike matter?



## guggas (Jan 31, 2011)

So I'm trying to learn to wheelie and manual. I can do it some, but cant hold it much more than momentarily on pavement,:madman: I need lots of practice before it could be a usefull skill on the trail. 
I'm currently riding a Santa Cruz Nickel with 650b wheels and I'm wondering if maybe this isnt the best bike to learn this skill on. I was thinking it may possibly be easier to learn on a lighter 26" hardtail. I have almost enough parts laying around the garage to build up my old hardtail, which I would be willing to do if it would help me learn this skill.

Would it be worth it/helpfull to try learning on a smaller hardtail first, or should i just suck it up and keep trying to do it on my trail bike?

Also if anyone has any general tips on how to get better at wheelies, I would appreciate it.


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## Mr KK (Sep 13, 2013)

I have been learning wheelies recently too. One way to get the wheel farther back is to "scoop" forward with your legs while pulling back. Another is to give a few (or 1) hard downstrokes on the pedals to lift the wheel while pulling back. It defies common sense at first but you'll get it. I still can't do manuals. . . .


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

The bike matters in the sense of the chainstay length can make it harder/easier to get up, but for the most part, the balance point is the balance point. A DH bike is going to be trickier to manual than a bmx bike. But pull up on the bars, stick your butt out and push your legs forward. If you can get the bike to come out from under you, manualing is just figuring out how far to go and hold it there.


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## jearl (Jul 26, 2012)

guggas said:


> So I'm trying to learn to wheelie and manual. I can do it some, but cant hold it much more than momentarily on pavement,:madman: I need lots of practice before it could be a usefull skill on the trail.
> I'm currently riding a Santa Cruz Nickel with 650b wheels and I'm wondering if maybe this isnt the best bike to learn this skill on. I was thinking it may possibly be easier to learn on a lighter 26" hardtail. I have almost enough parts laying around the garage to build up my old hardtail, which I would be willing to do if it would help me learn this skill.
> 
> Would it be worth it/helpfull to try learning on a smaller hardtail first, or should i just suck it up and keep trying to do it on my trail bike?
> ...


I too have been working to overcome both of these as well. I have not noticed a diference between hardtail and FS, they both seem difficult to me. I do think that weight plays a big part in it. With my 30lb fs 29" trail bike it is the most dificult to wheelie, my 25lb 29" hardtail it is easier, with my bosses 23lb 26" FS ibis it was a peice of cake. Then as kazlx said they all have different chainstay lengths.


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

29ers are going to be the hardest to learn on because they automatically have long chainstays. If you really want something easier to learn on, buy a cheap bmx bike. Hardtail 26 would be my next suggestion. Put on some flats and go somewhere with grass. The other huge advantage of a bmx bike or 24" cruiser is short standover makes it quite a bit easier to bail and not get caught up on the bike.

Also, some people just have way better balance than others. I can manual, but not for nearly as long as I want to.

Also, learning catwalks first may help, since the balance is similar. Basically, a standing wheelie. Feather the rear brake and pedal.


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

How To Manual Your Bike Like A Pro - YouTube


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## Haint (Jan 25, 2012)

Almost for certain it is that any bike which pulls coaster-manuals for miles (on flat ground) will not be the most stable when having the front wheel up and under power at the cranks. That's what is more important -- getting power to the ground.
Coaster Manuals are not a very essential skill - instead try getting the front wheel up and pedaling into that a bit, to learn where your weight-range shifts on the bike and where your body-mass can shift & maintain that wheel height and speed.

If that fails, try coasting a bit downhill with a super easy gear under you. Give a quick torque at the cranks w/ that gear and a sharp tug on the bars - ride it out. Cover your brakes - especially while getting accustomed.


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## Katz (Jan 29, 2012)

guggas said:


> ...Would it be worth it/helpfull to try learning on a smaller hardtail first, or should i just suck it up and keep trying to do it on my trail bike?


Depends. If you're practicing manual strictly for the purpose of negotiating trail obstacles, I think you'll be better off keep practicing on your primary trail bike.

If you want to learn how to roll/coast for a couple hundred feet, a hardtail will definitely help. It is indeed easier learning how to maintain the balance point on a hardtail - the suspension doesn't soak up the input from your hip/legs, and this consistency helps develop muscle memories quickly (relatively speaking). Use a short stem. I think overall weight of the bike doesn't matter much (the bike in my avatar pic is a fatbike), but it is easier to manual a bike with light front end.


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## guggas (Jan 31, 2011)

Thanks for all the input guys. I think I will go ahead and build up the hardtail and practice on both bikes. I've begun to see some encouraging improvement over the last few days. I think if I stick with it I'll eventually get it. Perhaps I will change my goals though, instead of trying to coaster manual for miles, I will focus on just doing it for a few seconds, and trying to add the bunny hop to that.


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

Also, give yourself goals. Go to a parking lot or something where you can judge distance based on parking stalls. It's easier to focus that just blindly hoping you are getting better. Same with bunny hops. Try to do them over something. Even if it's just sticks or curbs or parking blocks to start.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

kazlx said:


> Also, give yourself goals. Go to a parking lot or something where you can judge distance based on parking stalls. It's easier to focus that just blindly hoping you are getting better. Same with bunny hops. Try to do them over something. Even if it's just sticks or curbs or parking blocks to start.


I think a grass yard or school practice field is a good place where you can try stuff without the fear of falling.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

Ill also add that doing a wheelie up a hill is *much* easier. think about when you are climbing a hill and how light the front gets, you are having to work to keep it down. 

Also my 26er hardtail is much easier to wheelie on than my either of my 29ers.


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## kazlx (Jun 13, 2005)

Not the best way to practice though, since you're much more apt to get owned if you go over backwards...at least on anything steep enough to make a wheelie easier. 

Much better to practice on a down slope.


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## formicaman (Dec 2, 2011)

I bought an old BMX to practice on. I suck just as much doing wheelies and jumps on it as I do on my FS 29er, but failing takes a lot less effort, so I can keep trying longer.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Note about bigger wheels: It's not just the chainstay length that effects ability to wheelie. Bigger wheels also have the hub (which is the pivot point) higher up and closer to your center of gravity, so there is less of a lever arm to rotate around the hub. So even if 2 bikes had the same length chainstays, I would guess the bike with bigger wheels would be harder to wheelie with.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Katz said:


> Depends. If you're practicing manual strictly for the purpose of negotiating trail obstacles, I think you'll be better off keep practicing on your primary trail bike.
> 
> If you want to learn how to roll/coast for a couple hundred feet, a hardtail will definitely help. It is indeed easier learning how to maintain the balance point on a hardtail - the suspension doesn't soak up the input from your hip/legs, and this consistency helps develop muscle memories quickly (relatively speaking). Use a short stem. I think overall weight of the bike doesn't matter much (the bike in my avatar pic is a fatbike), but it is easier to manual a bike with light front end.


If ever there was a thread to post your fatbike manual video, this is it! (For inspiration and motivational purposes...doit!.....doit!...doit!)


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## guggas (Jan 31, 2011)

net wurker said:


> If ever there was a thread to post your fatbike manual video, this is it! (For inspiration and motivational purposes...doit!.....doit!...doit!)


^^ ditto, mad props for posting your fatbike manual videos.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

To the OP,
Most times, on the trail, the manual will start on a tree root or dropping a ledge. If you can manual off even the smallest of bumps - or even just a bit of fork rebound - for one bike length, it will help you a lot.
After that, develop the slow-speed manual, the long-manual, and the I'm-not-setting-this-wheel-down-'til-I-really-have-to manual (which only a few people can actually do).
If you practice flipping the bike over (like on grass), you'll know how far to push it before you lose it.

-F


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

there is no secret other that practicing and practicing. if there was a shortcut, everyone would be rolling around on one wheel like it was the normal thing to do...


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## SQUIRRELSHOOTR (Jan 8, 2013)

I find that a shorter stem helps a ton. My problem is not pulling up evenly on the right and left side of the bars and then becoming unbalanced. I'm on a fs 26er and rode another one with a stem at 50mm instead of 100mm and it was night and day. I could almost just lean back and pull the front up compared to my bike with the 100mm stem.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

anything that places you closer to the pivot point is going to help...


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## Katz (Jan 29, 2012)

net wurker said:


> If ever there was a thread to post your fatbike manual video, this is it! (For inspiration and motivational purposes...doit!.....doit!...doit!)





guggas said:


> ^^ ditto, mad props for posting your fatbike manual videos.


Ask, and you shall receive 

Chainstay cam
http://www.pinkbike.com/v/327710/l/

Fatbike manual on Bonneville on Pinkbike

One more.
http://www.pinkbike.com/v/324643/l/

fatbike2 on Pinkbike

Not fatbike, but perhaps this could be an inspiration for learning bunnyhop (This took me a few tries - I wrecked the day before)
http://www.pinkbike.com/v/323039/l/

KatzT Riding Video on Pinkbike

Not so inspiring, but here's a video of the aforementioned wreck (vid courtesy of a fellow member Optimus)


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## wheelierider1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Practice, practice, practice. The best way to get better. Wear a helmet, gloves. Flats, not clips. Uphill, granny gear, use your leg strength to start. Fingers on brake. Look straight ahead. Good luck, and practice more.


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## Motorider228 (Mar 30, 2013)

I agree with everyone about practice. After a couple loop outs you will find the sweet spot. Get to the sweet spot, feather the brake, and pedal away. I can't manual to save my life, but I learned to wheelie on a bmx bike when I was 11 or 12. I can ride a wheelie as far as I want now, hard tail, FS, 26 or 29. I took a couple hard falls as a kid, resulting in having the wind knocked out of me, but that's how you learn!


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## Tommytwostroke (Dec 2, 2013)

First, wheelies and manuals are two totally different skills. Yes they both involve riding on one tire, and balance. However one is a smooth fluent motion, and the other is purely torque combined with balance.
First the bike matters! The larger the wheel, the harder it is to manual. Chain stay length is the most crucial factor in manualing. The closer the rear wheel to the bb, the easier it comes up. Try manualing without pulling with your arms. Just squat, drop your heels, so toes are pointed about two o'clock, then push your bike forward with you hips/legs, keeping your arms relaxed. Then move hips for and aft to control yaw. No arm strength needed to perform mile long manual.
Wheelies are hard on full suspensions but not impossible. The rear shock absorbes your power push on the pedal. Lift your seat up to your max. Then practice sit down wheelies first. 
With both skills you need to ride with a single finger on the rear brake lever. The brake lever is your most important tool in mile long sit down wheelies. Just drag it ever so softly.


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## ABRAKEGABRA (Mar 13, 2015)

1 more thing: If u want the front end to come up really easily or jist balance better, get a bike frame in which the BB is higher than the rear wheel axle. (Like a Trials Bike lelz)


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

SQUIRRELSHOOTR said:


> I find that a shorter stem helps a ton. My problem is not pulling up evenly on the right and left side of the bars and then becoming unbalanced. I'm on a fs 26er and rode another one with a stem at 50mm instead of 100mm and it was night and day. I could almost just lean back and pull the front up compared to my bike with the 100mm stem.


This is KEY. I'm sure the OP figured it out, 18 months ago, but it's not just stem length - it's the position of your hands and center of gravity compared to the front axle on the bike.

The further you're behind it, the easier to wheelie and the more your front wheel will try to wander climbing a hill.

Folks, this is elementary. Ever tried to wheelie a BMX race bike? The front is long and low on purpose to keep the front wheel down when sprinting! It's nothing like a DJ.


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## tylerw (Dec 7, 2009)

always keep a finger on the rear brake. If you go to far past the balance point then dab ur brake a little and keep it going. I can ride a wheelie till im tired and the rear brake is what makes that possible. Practice the wheelie going downhill so u can easily maintain momentum and worry less about pedaling once you get it up.


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