# decisions, decisions...



## rattler420 (Jul 22, 2015)

gearing up to get into night riding for the first time. been researching all week and have it narrowed down to just a few choices (quite sure im just over thinking it). hoping to get some feedback on what some more experienced riders might choose for first set up. 

a light is a light to the wife, so she said just buy 2 of what ever i choose, lol (buying a set for each of us). we want good quality kit, but a dollar saved, is a dollar saved. most of our rides would be around 1.5-2 hours, although as much as 4 hours may not be unheard of. im not against buying a spare battery pack for long rides. NW WA is where we reside for an idea of trails. lots of time on galbraith. 

handle bar - im torn between gloworm x2 (or maybe an alpha with w/w) and outbound lighting trail. but also looking at the m-tiger sports theia or ds

helmet - really leaning towards gloworm's alpha here. price, weight and reviews really make it the lead contender to me here. but wondering if its worth it to pony up for an x2 here also. 

on one hand, it seems to make sense to stick with gloworm (really like the idea of the alpha for helmet use). i also like everything i see about the OB trail, but im not sold on the road for helmet use. at least as compared to the alpha. 

any advice or recommendations are welcome.


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## Outbound (Aug 23, 2017)

rattler420 said:


> gearing up to get into night riding for the first time. been researching all week and have it narrowed down to just a few choices (quite sure im just over thinking it). hoping to get some feedback on what some more experienced riders might choose for first set up.
> 
> a light is a light to the wife, so she said just buy 2 of what ever i choose, lol (buying a set for each of us). we want good quality kit, but a dollar saved, is a dollar saved. most of our rides would be around 1.5-2 hours, although as much as 4 hours may not be unheard of. im not against buying a spare battery pack for long rides. NW WA is where we reside for an idea of trails. lots of time on galbraith.
> 
> ...


I like the idea of the Outbound Lights. 

That said, by using the road on the helmet you are getting to use the power of the light carpets working together in harmony, along with exact same color temperature. Resulting in what is essentially an unbroken field of light as you maneuver through twisty trails. It's something that not a lot of people have truly experienced since every bike light has categorically been a circular spot light.






Keep in mind that video is then jumping to a $120 light, and then amazon's best selling $50 light. Even if you used two of those cheaper lights you still would not be getting the light in the lower corners (along with all the residual that the camera can't pick up, but our eyes can). Same story with using two higher power more expensive lights, still just circular beam patterns.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

One thing with most the lights you listed is that beam pattern is subjective. They all can have the optics changed. The more "common" but less expensive lights dont offer this.

But like many things it's much more about user preference. Like I dont like overly wide coverage on narrow wooded trails. As well as light too close to front tire. Helmet is about the same but I personally go with more output on the helmet than the bars. Eyes naturally want to track to brighter lit area so having the extra power to throw light out ahead of the bar light you end up with a more even light coverage out ahead making it easier to keep your eyes up ahead.

As I said though, personal preference. I was stuck mostly night riding for a couple of years so had a lot of time to figure out what worked best for me.

Any of the options you listed will be far better than any low budget minded option.

Now for the options (excluding outbound as it's a completely different design) it comes down to what matters to you. Quality and performance is going to run pretty much side by side. Lumen specs are all real from MTS (DS, Theia) all through glowworm. Some price variations come from programmable drivers (MTS went 4 modes in perfect spacing with up and down mode selection to save expense and complexity) to included accessories and so on.

M-Tiger is new to the US, has been popular in Europe for some time though. Sadly most of the videos and such are not in English. 

Cant go wrong with any option, just compare specs, what's included and so on judge by what matters most to you. 

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## farfromovin (Apr 18, 2009)

Riding Galbraith at night? You want all the lights you can get! Personally, I started riding with Outbound recently. The “downhill combo” works amazing, but I’m not thrilled by the trail light on the bars alone. I do love the engineering behind the lights and the construction quality though. The road on the helmet is what makes it. I wear bibs with pockets in the back and just drop the battery pack down the back of the shirt and into the pocket. 

And for night riding in the woods with vertical drop you just can’t have too much light imo. I think all our reputable vendors here selling lights would be able to supply you with a setup that works great, but I only have experience with Outbound. Previously I ran some custom hand made lights, and I’ve used Niterider before.


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## rattler420 (Jul 22, 2015)

the thing that keeps me coming back to the alpha (over the OB road for instance) for a helmet light is the size (seems the most low-profile), and run-time on the 2 cell batteries. strapping a 2-cell to my helmet seems like a better option than running a wire to a larger battery in my pack. maybe the thought of a wire running from helmet to pack shouldnt be as much of a concern. 

im very tempted now to buy a set (handle bar + helmet) from two manufacturers for the ole pespi challenge. i really like redundancy in our set ups, but maybe the wife will end up liking something different from me. and at worst, it seems they all offer a fair return/guarantee policy.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

rattler420 said:


> the thing that keeps me coming back to the alpha (over the OB road for instance) for a helmet light is the size (seems the most low-profile), and run-time on the 2 cell batteries. strapping a 2-cell to my helmet seems like a better option than running a wire to a larger battery in my pack. maybe the thought of a wire running from helmet to pack shouldnt be as much of a concern.
> 
> im very tempted now to buy a set (handle bar + helmet) from two manufacturers for the ole pespi challenge. i really like redundancy in our set ups, but maybe the wife will end up liking something different from me. and at worst, it seems they all offer a fair return/guarantee policy.


I own all the lights you mentioned you were looking at. Unfortunately the terrain where I ride (desert) is different than yours so probably best if I avoid any recommendations but can answer questions about capabilities and characteristics of each light. Anything specific you want to know?
Mole


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## Rock Climber (Jul 25, 2007)

MRMOLE said:


> I own all the lights you mentioned you were looking at. Unfortunately the terrain where I ride (desert) is different than yours so probably best if I avoid any recommendations but can answer questions about capabilities and characteristics of each light. Anything specific you want to know?
> Mole


MRMOLE, I'd love to hear your recommendation if you are willing to share it.

I'm in the exact same boat as the OP and in Seattle so similar terrain. I'm really torn between gloworm, outbound and rakc. I've only ever ridden with cheap chinese knockoffs so I'm sure anything would be an upgrade, but I don't have any experience with good lights. I really like the idea of the outbound wide throw but just wondering if it's that much different than the gloworm.

Also, when I was looking at lights a few years ago it seemed like the recommendation was brighter light on the bars, do you all recommend the brighter light on the helmet?

I guess specifically, what would be the main difference between the outbound road and trail setup, compared to a gloworm x2 bar and helmet (with wide optics on the bars and spot optics on the helmet)? Or gloworm X2 on hemet and Alpha on the bars?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Rock Climber said:


> I guess specifically, what would be the main difference between the outbound road and trail setup, compared to a gloworm x2 bar and helmet (with wide optics on the bars and spot optics on the helmet)? Or gloworm X2 on hemet and Alpha on the bars?


Riding with the Outbound combo is different than any other lights I've tried. Reminds me of riding in a little bubble of daylight where everything is evenly lit. The down side to the beam pattern is that the bubble is only so big and non adjustable. I can see if ridden on trails with limited line of sight distances this would work very well although the extreme beam width could add distractions if you were trying to scoot down a very tight trail. The Gloworms beam may not give you quite the picture like view of the trail but is still very good (better than most other lights) and can be adjusted to illuminate the trail for far greater distances. Overall the Gloworms are more powerful and more efficient with the use of battery current (X2 a bit more, Alpha quite a bit more). Actual initial max power the Outbound lights would split the difference between the Alpha and X2 but an overly aggressive emergency power function (supposed to be fixed sometime soon) than starts cutting back the Outbound's output (to the claimed 800 lumen preset) after about an hour. Gloworms presets are user programmable (which you probably already know) but they also have a second program with just a high/low setup which I like. Mounting systems are better on the Gloworms (take up far less bar space and center lights in front of stem cap + allow lights to be mounted below bar height where they a better protected. Outbound lights come with a Gopro adapters along with the strap mount so can be used with the Gloworm mounts + a helmet mount will need to be purchased unless your helmet comes with a Gopro mount.

EDIT: Wireless remote of the Gloworm X2 far superior for mode switching, would rate the top mounted Outbound mode button better than the Alpha because of placement and size.



> Also, when I was looking at lights a few years ago it seemed like the recommendation was brighter light on the bars, do you all recommend the brighter light on the helmet?


I think a better way to look at it is the light with the most throw should go on the helmet.



> I'd love to hear your recommendation if you are willing to share it.


I'm not willing to make a recommendation since I've never ridden in a forest at night but hopefully these observations from ownership will help you decide what's best for you and the conditions you ride in. Maybe you'll get some input from someone more familiar with riding in conditions similar to yours. Coming from a cheap light backround I don't think you can make a bad decision on this.
Mole


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Are the Gloworm neutral white LEDs available for the end user to install themselves? Action-LED offers these as an option, but Jenson doesn’t, and I’m just wondering if Action has some kind of deal with Gloworm, or if the LED options are standard available parts. 

I’m researching a lot and am now leaning toward a pair of X2, though still have not ruled out an Outbound Trail on the bars and X2 helmet. The adjustable beam X2 almost makes this a mute point though, especially when considering one remote controls both, same color temp LEDs, same controls. 


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Action removes the original emitters and reflow solders the NW emitters in place of the original emitters. A user can do that too if they have some reflow soldering experience.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

isleblue65 said:


> Are the Gloworm neutral white LEDs available for the end user to install themselves? Action-LED offers these as an option, but Jenson doesn't, and I'm just wondering if Action has some kind of deal with Gloworm, or if the LED options are standard available parts.
> 
> I'm researching a lot and am now leaning toward a pair of X2, though still have not ruled out an Outbound Trail on the bars and X2 helmet. The adjustable beam X2 almost makes this a mute point though, especially when considering one remote controls both, same color temp LEDs, same controls.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not sure where Action sources the NW emitters from but they are available separately if you want to reflow them to the boards yourself. Considering the cost of individual emitters + shipping your not going to save much. Living on the west coast you may reduce the shipping time by a couple of days but other than that I see no advantage ordering the Gloworms from Jenson vs. Action. Also if you decide to run a Outbound/Gloworm combo the standard emitters on the X2 will match the Outbound better.
Mole


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

isleblue65 said:


> Are the Gloworm neutral white LEDs available for the end user to install themselves? Action-LED offers these as an option, but Jenson doesn't, and I'm just wondering if Action has some kind of deal with Gloworm, or if the LED options are standard available parts.
> 
> I'm researching a lot and am now leaning toward a pair of X2, though still have not ruled out an Outbound Trail on the bars and X2 helmet. The adjustable beam X2 almost makes this a mute point though, especially when considering one remote controls both, same color temp LEDs, same controls.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Action is a distributor that also sells. Jensen is just a reseller.


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## iliketexmex (Oct 29, 2016)

Get a light, ride at night. The sooner the better because it is a whole new experience. I bring a flashlight too just in case something fails. Daylight savings used to feel like a funeral, riding at night makes it a non-issue


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Vancbiker said:


> Action removes the original emitters and reflow solders the NW emitters in place of the original emitters. A user can do that too if they have some reflow soldering experience.


Thanks, makes sense to just buy from Action.

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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

MRMOLE said:


> I'm not sure where Action sources the NW emitters from but they are available separately if you want to reflow them to the boards yourself. Considering the cost of individual emitters + shipping your not going to save much. Living on the west coast you may reduce the shipping time by a couple of days but other than that I see no advantage ordering the Gloworms from Jenson vs. Action. Also if you decide to run a Outbound/Gloworm combo the standard emitters on the X2 will match the Outbound better.
> Mole


The only Jenson advantage right now is the 20% off one item ($60 off the XS 2500 lumen, $50 off the X2). That's 20% less than Action LED, but I understand Action will replace the LEDs for $10 or so.

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## CopeIt (Jul 16, 2018)

Are the neutral whites worth it?


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## MrGT (Aug 19, 2005)

CopeIt said:


> Are the neutral whites worth it?


I think so myself. After chatting with Mole I decided to go NW. Everything looks more natural with less glare. The cool white or daylight is very bright and reflective to me, trail features get really washed out. More useable light with less eye fatigue with NW. if you ride in the snow there is absolutely less glare. I also read that in dusty places that NW are better. I'd go Gloworm NW.


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## MrGT (Aug 19, 2005)

Go Alpha on helmet with XS on bar both neutral white. Sweet set up. I’d choose X2 for helmet if remote is important but, keep in mind, in very cold conditions those button batteries in the remote seem to drain quickly. I don’t even bother with the remote in winter. It’s no big deal reaching a button on my helmet.
I use X2 with S/S on helmet with 2 cell mounted to helmet and spare 2 cell in my pack and XS on the bar with W/F/W optics and I love my set up..


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

MrGT said:


> Go Alpha on helmet with XS on bar both neutral white. Sweet set up. I'd choose X2 for helmet if remote is important but, keep in mind, in very cold conditions those button batteries in the remote seem to drain quickly. I don't even bother with the remote in winter. It's no big deal reaching a button on my helmet.
> I use X2 with S/S on helmet with 2 cell mounted to helmet and spare 2 cell in my pack and XS on the bar with W/F/W optics and I love my set up..


The 2017 XS is a pretty good deal, and it looks like the only difference between that and the '18 is wired vs wireless remote? If on the bars, wired would be fine.

Not cold here so button battery life isn't a big deal.

What's S/S?

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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

isleblue65 said:


> The 2017 XS is a pretty good deal, and it looks like the only difference between that and the '18 is wired vs wireless remote? If on the bars, wired would be fine.
> 
> Not cold here so button battery life isn't a big deal.
> 
> ...


I think he is talking about the lens setup for the light. S/S is spot spot.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

isleblue65 said:


> The 2017 XS is a pretty good deal, and it looks like the only difference between that and the '18 is wired vs wireless remote? If on the bars, wired would be fine.
> 
> Not cold here so button battery life isn't a big deal.
> 
> ...


Remote versions of the X2/XS also include a mode button on the lighthead and are drilled for the Gopro mount provided with the newer lights. Remote mounting system and overall button function are noticeably better on the wireless lights also.

Gloworm offers 3 different optics for the X2/XS. Spot (S) is a narrow focused beam with the most intensity/throw, Flood (F) is very similar to the spot but has a frosted exterior surface that has less intensity/throw than the spot but blends better with the wide angle optic (less of a hot spot/smoother beam), and Wide-angle (W) is and elliptical style optic that has a similar vertical beam angle but spreads the beam horizontally so retains more intensity by limiting wasted light above and below the useful field of vision like you get with a traditional wide angle optic.
Mole


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

caRpetbomBer said:


> I think he is talking about the lens setup for the light. S/S is spot spot.


Right! Thanks



MRMOLE said:


> Remote versions of the X2/XS also include a mode button on the lighthead and are drilled for the Gopro mount provided with the newer lights. Remote mounting system and overall button function are noticeably better on the wireless lights also.
> 
> Gloworm offers 3 different optics for the X2/XS. Spot (S) is a narrow focused beam with the most intensity/throw, Flood (F) is very similar to the spot but has a frosted exterior surface that has less intensity/throw than the spot but blends better with the wide angle optic (less of a hot spot/smoother beam), and Wide-angle (W) is and elliptical style optic that has a similar vertical beam angle but spreads the beam horizontally so retains more intensity by limiting wasted light above and below the useful field of vision like you get with a traditional wide angle optic.
> Mole


Thanks, thats super helpful. I think it sounds like 2019 features/ improvements may be worth the $$ since this is likely to be a 1-time investment in lights I'll have for a decade or more.

I guess my final decision is how much light and where? Coming from cheap Chinese knockoffs, anything is going to be an awesome improvement.

I'm wavering between a pair of X2s on bars and helmet, and an XS on the bars and X2 on the helmet (adventure version with 2 batteries). 100% of my 2 night rides per week are less than 1.5 hours right now, and I run low power for more than half of that - on the climbs.

I've seen some mention that the XS might be too much for the bars, and a better helmet light. My main thought regarding X2 on helmet is due to size and weight, and possibly mounting the two battery pack on my helmet. I'm getting away from a hydration backpack for water bottle, and frame bag for storage, so have also lost my previous helmet light battery storage (in the Camelbak). If I wear a jersey with back pockets, that works ok for the battery, but some of my colder weather jerseys don't have back pockets, and having it self contained on the helmet sounds ideal.


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## MrGT (Aug 19, 2005)

isleblue65 said:


> Right! Thanks
> 
> Thanks, thats super helpful. I think it sounds like 2019 features/ improvements may be worth the $$ since this is likely to be a 1-time investment in lights I'll have for a decade or more.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't want the XS on my head, feels too heavy to me. I don't think XS is too much for the bar, you don't need to run it on high but you will get a sweet spread with those 3 LED. I believe Mole has stated that higher lumen lights run at lower power are more efficient? Anyhow, I have an X2 mounted on a Giro Fixture MIPS helmet with the battery and although it's not super light weight it is awesome and I have no wires going down my back.
XS bar, X2 helmet neutral white. Your hunt is over LOL.


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

MrGT said:


> I wouldn't want the XS on my head, feels too heavy to me. I don't think XS is too much for the bar, you don't need to run it on high but you will get a sweet spread with those 3 LED. I believe Mole has stated that higher lumen lights run at lower power are more efficient? Anyhow, I have an X2 mounted on a Giro Fixture MIPS helmet with the battery and although it's not super light weight it is awesome and I have no wires going down my back.
> XS bar, X2 helmet neutral white. Your hunt is over LOL.


Sweet! That helmet has a lot of good wide vents for battery straps, and flat spots for adhesive and flat-based strap style GoPro mounts.

Can't really say the same for my Bell Lumen.



















If I have to buy a new helmet, it's not a huge price to have better light mounting surfaces.

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## MrGT (Aug 19, 2005)

Yes, the Giro fixture MIPS is $65 and the non MIPS is only $45. I bought a second one just to keep my lights and battery mounted semi permanently..


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## DaleinTexas (Mar 27, 2016)

I recently used a Tiger Theia, helmet mounted for a 24hr endurance race with zero issues and zero complaints. The wiring was a perfect length and just dropped the battery in my center rear pocket on my jersey, the remote worked great from the handlebars. Being able to remotely toggle it through multiple output levels. I definitely will be ordering another for my bars for my 2019 24 hr races.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

isleblue65 said:


> I guess my final decision is how much light and where? Coming from cheap Chinese knockoffs, anything is going to be an awesome improvement.
> 
> I'm wavering between a pair of X2s on bars and helmet, and an XS on the bars and X2 on the helmet (adventure version with 2 batteries). 100% of my 2 night rides per week are less than 1.5 hours right now, and I run low power for more than half of that - on the climbs.
> 
> I've seen some mention that the XS might be too much for the bars, and a better helmet light. My main thought regarding X2 on helmet is due to size and weight, and possibly mounting the two battery pack on my helmet. I'm getting away from a hydration backpack for water bottle, and frame bag for storage, so have also lost my previous helmet light battery storage (in the Camelbak). If I wear a jersey with back pockets, that works ok for the battery, but some of my colder weather jerseys don't have back pockets, and having it self contained on the helmet sounds ideal.


I ran some test you might find useful or at least interesting comparing the Gloworm lights with regards to weight/throw @ Alpha's max./current draw @ Alpha's max. Even though the Alpha is only 1200 lumens it has competitive throw with any sub 2000 lumen lights I've tested and while the X2/XS will produce higher max. lux numbers the X2 had to run @ 90% to get the only slightly higher readings posted here and required considerably more current draw @ this output level. Readings were taken @ 1.5 meters which actually favors the more powerful X2/XS but results are accurate enough for comparison here.

.................Weight.........Max LUX...........Current draw
Alpha:......69 grams.........64700..................1.5a

X2:..........89 grams.........67500..................2.15a

XS:........110 grams.........67700..................1.51a

Estimated lumen output from bounce test lux reading @ these settings were Alpha: 1310, X2: 1672, XS: 1785.

Alpha achieves its greater throw vs. power output ratio from the use of XPG emitters but also has a narrower beam. XS additional efficiency comes from driving the emitters at lower current levels. XS could drain a 2 cell battery far quicker than the Alpha/X2 but only if set to far outperform the smaller lights. Set to similar max lux (throw) levels it and the Alpha should give noticeably better runtimes than the X2.

All the GW lights will perform well bar or helmet mounted (IMO) if set up correctly. 20 gram steps between lights are noticeable but while I definately prefer the Alpha's weight helmet mounted most of my XS usage is also helmet mounted and as long as I use a good/tight fitting helmet I'm fine. XS is also the best bar light but because its 3 optics offer additional flexibility in setup and its efficient use of battery power (when run @ appropriate power levels) not its extra output ("more than needed" is a better description then "too much").
Mole


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

MRMOLE said:


> I ran some test you might find useful or at least interesting comparing the Gloworm lights with regards to weight/throw @ Alpha's max./current draw @ Alpha's max. Even though the Alpha is only 1200 lumens it has competitive throw with any sub 2000 lumen lights I've tested and while the X2/XS will produce higher max. lux numbers the X2 had to run @ 90% to get the only slightly higher readings posted here and required considerably more current draw @ this output level. Readings were taken @ 1.5 meters which actually favors the more powerful X2/XS but results are accurate enough for comparison here.
> 
> .................Weight.........Max LUX...........Current draw
> Alpha:......69 grams.........64700..................1.5a
> ...


Thanks Mole, those are good comparisons. I did end up ordering the XS (standard 4 cell) and X2 (2 cell), both with natural white LEDs. Plan to mount XS on bars and X2 on helmet.

I would rather have a wider beam, at least on the bars - which I can achieve with the XS and a combination of spot and flood optics. Hopefully the battery life to output of the X2 on my helmet with 2 cells will not disappoint compared to the Alpha. My rides are 1.5 hours or less generally, and only 20 to 30% of the time at higher light levels on the downhill portions.

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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

This thread is jammed with really helpful info. It has revived my motivation to get a nice light set up and get out there riding in the dark. Now, if only I could get past all my fears... I will have to work on that.


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

mtnbkrmike said:


> This thread is jammed with really helpful info. It has revived my motivation to get a nice light set up and get out there riding in the dark. Now, if only I could get past all my fears... I will have to work on that.


I had fears of riding alone before I started doing it regularly. We have mountain lions here, coyotes and occasionally bears, but I tell myself that I'm the scariest thing out there with the lights, and bike tires crunching over gravel and rocks. There are also thousands of rabbits and hundreds of deer and turkeys. Lions and coyotes have a huge food supply and they aren't going after something bigger than themselves.

Now I find it peaceful and I do a lot of thinking and enjoy the wildlife I see on every ride. 2 morning rides per week are completely in the dark, and I enjoy those more than my weekend ride during the day.

My Gloworm lights will be here tomorrow, and I think I'm going to get up and ride in the dark Saturday morning instead of sleeping in.

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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

isleblue65 said:


> I had fears of riding alone before I started doing it regularly. We have mountain lions here, coyotes and occasionally bears, but I tell myself that I'm the scariest thing out there with the lights, and bike tires crunching over gravel and rocks. There are also thousands of rabbits and hundreds of deer and turkeys. Lions and coyotes have a huge food supply and they aren't going after something bigger than themselves.
> 
> Now I find it peaceful and I do a lot of thinking and enjoy the wildlife I see on every ride. 2 morning rides per week are completely in the dark, and I enjoy those more than my weekend ride during the day.
> 
> ...


Any thoughts after your first ride or two would be appreciated.

I am in the same boat as the OP. I need 2 sets of lights, so my expense will be double that of most others.

My riding is in rocky, sometimes fairly technical terrain, mostly on twisty treed trails, although sometimes we are above the treeline. Other times, we are on fast, flowy, but also tightly treed and usually rocky trails. Sometimes, it is a mixture of all of this.

Night rides will almost always be in the 2.5 hour range, although there are a couple of rides I would like to do that are longer.

The ride profile is usually up, up, up, and then down, down down (obviously with slight variations along the way). Generally though, one long sustained climb, followed by an equally long sustained down.

Interested in your initial thoughts on your purchase.

Thanks.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

rattler420 said:


> the thing that keeps me coming back to the alpha (over the OB road for instance) for a helmet light is the size (seems the most low-profile), and run-time on the 2 cell batteries. strapping a 2-cell to my helmet seems like a better option than running a wire to a larger battery in my pack. maybe the thought of a wire running from helmet to pack shouldnt be as much of a concern.
> 
> im very tempted now to buy a set (handle bar + helmet) from two manufacturers for the ole pespi challenge. i really like redundancy in our set ups, but maybe the wife will end up liking something different from me. and at worst, it seems they all offer a fair return/guarantee policy.


What did you end up purchasing?


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Any thoughts after your first ride or two would be appreciated.
> 
> I am in the same boat as the OP. I need 2 sets of lights, so my expense will be double that of most others.
> 
> ...


I just got back from my first night ride with the Gloworm X2 on my helmet and XS on the bars, and I'm very impressed. Coming from cheap Chinese lights with blue/ white LED color and spot beams that only light up a small area directly in front of the bike, the Gloworm lights even on low power made me realize how much of the terrain I've been missing.

I have the X2 setup with two spots and XS With Wide Flood Wide optics. The XS has amazing throw on low and medium. I was amazed at how much of the forest on either side of the narrow trail I've been missing. It was actually kind of creepy because I've just blocked out everything except for the trail directly in front of me for the last 15 years of night riding (because that's all I've been able to see with my lights). Now I'm seeing trees, rocks, stumps, Ferns and detail 20 to 30 feet into the woods in my peripheral vision. I may swap the middle flood optic with a spot to see how I like that.

The X2 with two spots is perfect and a nice compliment to the XS. I setup my wireless remote (which worked amazing) to control the XS on the bars with the forward button and the X2 with the back button. There were times that I ran one light on high and the other on medium, and it was nice to easily toggle through settings without taking my hands off the bars.

The natural white LEDs were definitely easier on the eyes, and made things look a lot like they do during the day. Contrast between the dirt and roots/ rocks on the dirt was much better than with the sterile white Chinese lights. I rode as fast as I do during the day, and that's a first for me. This was the first time I could see way way out in front of me as well as to the side while night riding. Quality lights build confidence.

I ran the 2 battery pack mounted to the back of my helmet, and I'm not sure I'm sold on that. I could feel the weight of the battery pack shaking and shifting as I descended some rocky sections, and combined with the headlamp, it felt like it was weighing down the helmet a bit. I may try my next ride with the extension cable and battery in a back jersey pocket.

If this is your first foray into night riding, and you're not 100% sure it's going to be for you, I would almost steer you toward some cheap lights just to get the feel for it, and gauge your commitment to it. You could spend $50 to $75 and get a decent fairly bright setup that you could try on some short rides that don't take you too deep into the woods.

I waited too long. For the frequency of dark riding I do, this is something I should have spent the money on years ago.

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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

isleblue65 said:


> I just got back from my first night ride with the Gloworm X2 on my helmet and XS on the bars, and I'm very impressed. Coming from cheap Chinese lights with blue/ white LED color and spot beams that only light up a small area directly in front of the bike, the Gloworm lights even on low power made me realize how much of the terrain I've been missing.
> 
> I have the X2 setup with two spots and XS With Wide Flood Wide optics. The XS has amazing throw on low and medium. I was amazed at how much of the forest on either side of the narrow trail I've been missing. It was actually kind of creepy because I've just blocked out everything except for the trail directly in front of me for the last 15 years of night riding (because that's all I've been able to see with my lights). Now I'm seeing trees, rocks, stumps, Ferns and detail 20 to 30 feet into the woods in my peripheral vision. I may swap the middle flood optic with a spot to see how I like that.
> 
> ...


Wow. Thank you so much for taking the time to share all your thoughts in such detail. Extremely helpful!

I have been riding more or less continuously for 25 or so years. I am afraid to ride at night. But doing so would open up so many opportunities to expand my riding, especially right now with the limited daylight hours. And because of my fear, it might actually enhance the experience, in an on the edge kind of way.

The setup you purchased sounds pretty much perfect for me. It's either a Gloworm combo likely along the lines you got, or the Outbound combo.

Thanks again. Very much appreciated.


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## MrGT (Aug 19, 2005)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Any thoughts after your first ride or two would be appreciated.
> 
> I am in the same boat as the OP. I need 2 sets of lights, so my expense will be double that of most others.
> 
> ...


Hey Mike,
Based on the technical nature and duration of your riding I'm not sure cheap single cell battery lights will be enough for you. In order to run 2.5 hours with enough lumens to see technical terrain I'd say lights that have multi cell batteries are a necessity. The Gloworm X2 or XS will come with a 4 cell battery and enough power and run time to last 2.5 hours.
X2 on the your helmet with a 4 cell battery in your pack, extension cable to the helmet.
XS on the bar with a 4 cell on your top tube, you'd be good to go.
Neutral White LED choice from Action LED with the same optics as isleblue65.
Of course there are other awesome brands and models of lights, I'm merely mentioning the ones I have experience with. Mentioning that you are afraid to ride at night puts the nail in the idea of considering going cheap, don't do it, you will be able to light up the woods big time with the combo I suggested.


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## Rock Climber (Jul 25, 2007)

I ended up buying the outbound downhill combo and the glowworm alpha with the neutral white emitter. Like others have said, I wish I had bought real lights years ago. Any of these are vastly better than what I had before. 

Two thoughts. I really do love the flood of the outbound light. My trails are very tight and twisty and it's nice to be able to see the sides of the trail before they turn. I do have a few complaints about the outbound light though. The road light on the helmet is huge and sticks up really far. Definitely need a good tight fitting helmet with a spot for a gopro mount. The color of the outbound lights is cooler than the neutral light on the gloworm and I can tell a difference on the trail (not huge, but noticeable) The outbound doesn't seem to quite have the throw needed for high speed riding though. If it just had a little more lumens and the headlight was smaller it would be perfect. 

I'm still kicking around trying the Gloworm XSV just to see what I think compared to the outbound.


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Rock Climber said:


> I ended up buying the outbound downhill combo and the glowworm alpha with the neutral white emitter. Like others have said, I wish I had bought real lights years ago. Any of these are vastly better than what I had before.
> 
> Two thoughts. I really do love the flood of the outbound light. My trails are very tight and twisty and it's nice to be able to see the sides of the trail before they turn. I do have a few complaints about the outbound light hough. The road light on the helmet is huge and stick up really far. Definitely need a good tight fitting helmet with a spot for a gopro mount. The color of the outbound lights is cooler than the neutral light on the gloworm and I can tell a difference on the trail (not huge, but noticeable) The outbound doesn't seem to quite have the throw needed for high speed riding though. If it just had a little more lumens and the headlight was smaller it would be perfect.
> 
> I'm still kicking around trying the Gloworm XSV just to see what I think compared to the outbound.


Good feedback. I was going back and forth between Outbound (downhill combo) and Gloworm XS and X2. I liked a lot of the Outbound features, especially the wide flood , and almost went with the handlebar mounted light without the cutoff and an X2 for my helmet. Because the Gloworm neutral white and Outbound LED temperatures were not the same, I thought it would be distracting or unpleasant. I went with the Gloworm combo (XS and X2), and I love them. They have changed my experience, and allowed me to ride with the same confidence and speed that I can in the daylight. Customer service is excellent, and going with an established company was a factor as well.

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