# Switching to downhill



## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

I'm a newbie rode my first chairlift to go riding the other day.

So I realized that I only go uphill to go downhill. 

In fact I probably wouldn't go uphill if there was no downhill.

This is not to say I don't appreciate the entire aspect of trail riding, I just came to the realization that I like the downhill bits the best.

Anyway, bought a 2010 boxxer on sale and direct mount stem.

Do I need to get a new headset?

It fits a 1.125 steer already, assuming I don't make an abortion out of pulling the race off of the stanchion do I need a new one?


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

KAZU said:


> Anyway, bought a 2010 boxxer on sale and direct mount stem.
> 
> Do I need to get a new headset?
> 
> It fits a 1.125 steer already, assuming I don't make an abortion out of pulling the race off of the stanchion do I need a new one?


What kind of bike are you planning on putting your Boxxer on? What headset do you currently have? If your headset is 1.125", you're good to go.

If your crown race is on the stanchion tube, you've got a huge problem. It's probably on the steerer tube. The crown race is headset specific, so it would probably be a good idea to pry it off of the steerer. If you want to remove it yourself, grab a flat head screwdriver and work around it slowly and patiently. I have done it this way a few times with no problems.


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

Yeah sorry steerer tube not stanchion. I'm putting it on a Nomad with 1.5 head tube. I have a reducer headset. I will be going from a Revelation to a Boxxer, so I expect the change to be not so subtle. 

Thanks man.


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## ron m. (Aug 1, 2009)

KAZU said:


> Yeah sorry steerer tube not stanchion. I'm putting it on a Nomad with 1.5 head tube. I have a reducer headset. I will be going from a Revelation to a Boxxer, so I expect the change to be not so subtle.
> 
> Thanks man.


I rode a couple of times with a guy who had Boxxers on his Nomad. Looked pretty good, actually. The extra legs will slacken you a fair bit, but you'll get used to it. It'll also suck at low speed, but things get good at speed.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

KAZU said:


> I'm putting it on a Nomad with 1.5 head tube. I have a reducer headset. I will be going from a Revelation to a Boxxer, so I expect the change to be not so subtle.


Boxxer on a Nomad? Is the Nomad built to take an 8 inch dh fork? If you have a reducer headset on there right now (1.5" to 1.125"), just get the crown race off of your other fork and you'll be good to go. No need to get a new headset.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

mtbnozpikr said:


> Boxxer on a Nomad? Is the Nomad built to take an 8 inch dh fork? If you have a reducer headset on there right now (1.5" to 1.125"), just get the crown race off of your other fork and you'll be good to go. No need to get a new headset.


I looked into this option for my Nomad a while back. The Boxxer actually has a lower axle - crown height than most single crown forks  It'll work pretty well for most situations :thumbsup:


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

*Single v Double on a Nomad*

Does a double crown fork really make that much of a difference (compared to a long travel single crown) that it's worth giving up some of the pedal ability of the Nomad?

I am actually curious about this, I have only ridden double crown recently and my old bike with a single crown (2000 bighit) was so long ago I don't remember what it felt like.

I ask this coming from a VP-Free with an 05 888 so it's heavy as hell and I rarely do anything that's more than a fireroad up a hill.


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

KAZU said:


> ...In fact I probably wouldn't go uphill if there was no downhill...


Well yeah - eventually, you'd run out of where to go. Duh.


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

cassieno said:


> Does a double crown fork really make that much of a difference (compared to a long travel single crown) that it's worth giving up some of the pedal ability of the Nomad?
> 
> I am actually curious about this, I have only ridden double crown recently and my old bike with a single crown (2000 bighit) was so long ago I don't remember what it felt like.
> 
> I ask this coming from a VP-Free with an 05 888 so it's heavy as hell and I rarely do anything that's more than a fireroad up a hill.


I have never run a double crown setup, but with my current single crown setup when I hit the chats on hard pack or rock the vibration gets so bad my vision blurs. From what I get from the people I talked to on the lift rides up the double crown drastically reduces this vibration.

On climbs and XC stuff that I do I have the forks pretty much locked out and since the Boxxer will be stiffer and actually lower the only drawback that I see would be weight.

I looked into this and these are the numbers I got from different websites.

My Revelation Race is 4.1 lbs

Fox 40 7.36 lbs

Fox 40 Fit 6.8 lbs

888 7.2 lbs

Boxxer R2C2 6.6 lbs

Boxxer RC 6.3 lbs

So basically I will be adding about 2 lbs to the front. I taped water bottle to my fork and rode around the hood to see if the extra weight would be too much. It sucks, but it's not terrible and plus I think in a fork it will be balanced different.

We'll see worse case scenario I use the new fork to build a downhill specific bike.


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

A Revelation fork is a beefed up XC/light AM fork at best. That it should feel harsh over brake bumps in a bike park comes as no surprise. You could let some air out and achieve a softer ride, but then you'd bottom out at the first sight of airtime.

You could get much better DH performance out of something like a Fox 36 or Lyric already, without stepping up to a Boxxer. That would probably be a better match for your frame. Or maybe a 180mm 36 or a Totem, if you really wanted to favor the DH side of things. Moving up to a Lyric already adds about 25mm in A-C height over the Revelation, which is quite significant. Going ANOTHER 20mm or so up to a Boxxer really starts to add up. (Note: this frame was designed around a 160mm travel fork I believe).

Not saying you can't run a Boxxer on it, just saying, you'd probably get a better balanced bike with a Fox 36. Go Van for that smooth coil action. A different league to the Revelations already.


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## cicatrix (Nov 15, 2010)

Everybody says "I don't think it will be too bad pedaling uphill with a dual crown because..." until they actually try it. It sucks. There is no other way to put it.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

cicatrix said:


> Everybody says "I don't think it will be too bad pedaling uphill with a dual crown because..." until they actually try it. It sucks. There is no other way to put it.


It's definitely possible though. There are more factors involved in climbing than simply whether you've got a dual or single crown fork. The thing is that adding a dual crown will probably slacken your geometry making it less of a climbing bike. I definitely agree with you though. It's not terribly easy.


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## cicatrix (Nov 15, 2010)

mtbnozpikr said:


> It's definitely possible though. There are more factors involved in climbing than simply whether you've got a dual or single crown fork. The thing is that adding a dual crown will probably slacken your geometry making it less of a climbing bike. I definitely agree with you though. It's not terribly easy.


of course it is possible, but about 5 or 10 minutes into the ride you think "what the hell am I doing?"


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## crossup (May 13, 2009)

Thats old school thinking, let me assure you, a totally competent DH bike CAN pedal like a
XC/Trail bike. All you need are three things: geometry, pedaling efficiency, low weight.
I ride a Canfield ONE v2 at 34 pounds 10oz, 200mm travel, No pedal bob or wasted motion and a Boxxer WC at 66 deg HA. 
It climbs like a goat, far more traction and front end steering/traction than my maxi-blinged Specialized Pitch AM bike. It handles walking speed techno gnar like a 70 deg XC bike or you can just ignore the gnar and bomb over it. I'm a 130 pound 60 year old guy and find it take no extra energy at all to ride my ONE on any given trail/hill than my 28 pound Specialized Enduro. Granted, I've rented Norco A-lines etc and they pedalled like mush even on level ground, so most DH bikes are not going to pedal uphill well but thats changing more and more as bikes get lighter and lighter.
Seriously, I'm not talking a kinda sorta AM/DH thing, I'm saying its a DH bike that gives up next to nothing doing anything else , XC trails, roads, epic climbs, urban jumping, pump tracks, you name it, it does it without wearing you out. 



cicatrix said:


> of course it is possible, but about 5 or 10 minutes into the ride you think "what the hell am I doing?"


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

crossup said:


> Thats old school thinking, let me assure you, a totally competent DH bike CAN pedal like a
> XC/Trail bike. All you need are three things: geometry, pedaling efficiency, low weight.
> I ride a Canfield ONE v2 at 34 pounds 10oz, 200mm travel, No pedal bob or wasted motion and a Boxxer WC at 66 deg HA.
> It climbs like a goat, far more traction and front end steering/traction than my maxi-blinged Specialized Pitch AM bike.


I'm thinking that a "totally competent" xc bike will destroy a "totally competent dh bike" in a climb. There is a reason why certain bikes are built to ride downhill and others are built to ride uphill. Sure a modern dh rig will climb better than an old one, but it will not approach what an xc rig can do.


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## Hangtime (Jan 25, 2006)

Post a pic of the Nomad when you get that new fork installed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cicatrix (Nov 15, 2010)

crossup said:


> Thats old school thinking, let me assure you, a totally competent DH bike CAN pedal like a
> XC/Trail bike. All you need are three things: geometry, pedaling efficiency, low weight.
> I ride a Canfield ONE v2 at 34 pounds 10oz, 200mm travel, No pedal bob or wasted motion and a Boxxer WC at 66 deg HA.
> It climbs like a goat, far more traction and front end steering/traction than my maxi-blinged Specialized Pitch AM bike. It handles walking speed techno gnar like a 70 deg XC bike or you can just ignore the gnar and bomb over it. I'm a 130 pound 60 year old guy and find it take no extra energy at all to ride my ONE on any given trail/hill than my 28 pound Specialized Enduro. Granted, I've rented Norco A-lines etc and they pedalled like mush even on level ground, so most DH bikes are not going to pedal uphill well but thats changing more and more as bikes get lighter and lighter.
> Seriously, I'm not talking a kinda sorta AM/DH thing, I'm saying its a DH bike that gives up next to nothing doing anything else , XC trails, roads, epic climbs, urban jumping, pump tracks, you name it, it does it without wearing you out.


well you have fun climbing, I'll take a shuttle or push.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

cicatrix said:


> well you have fun climbing, I'll take a shuttle or push.


I always think of it this way. The more I go uphill the better shape I get in for the downhills. That being said I'll take a shuttle any day


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## cicatrix (Nov 15, 2010)

cassieno said:


> I always think of it this way. The more I go uphill the better shape I get in for the downhills. That being said I'll take a shuttle any day


Pushing also gets you into shape. I sweat like a mofo when I have to play Hike-A-Bike


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## ron m. (Aug 1, 2009)

130 pound, 60 year old guy hitting gnar! You inspire me, sir.


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## crossup (May 13, 2009)

After 15 years of motocross, its hard to even think about not riding dirt, so I will as long as I can. After a trip to Whistler its hard not to learn a ton, including what real gnar is. For example, I went in one week from zero skinny experience to doing 6" wide logs 5' up in the air while at Whistler. The only thing more amazing about Whistler than the riding is how much you learn there. By the end, I'd ridden all but two double diamond trails.

BTW, I'll be 61 next month  and definitely plan to see Whistler several more times before I hang up my helmet

Pic: Me sitting below some table tops at Whistler on a rental Norco A-line(not as good as my AM Pitch on the braking bumps which covered the mountain last sumer) fumbling for my camera



ron m. said:


> 130 pound, 60 year old guy hitting gnar! You inspire me, sir.


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## mtbswindler (Aug 13, 2009)

*Oooooouuuuuttttttttt of your mind.*

your canfield may climb better than your pitch (i find this really hard to believe, considering with my comp pitch i could climb some technical shiiii.) but maybe the small isnt working out...? ohhhh yeah... way to hard to believe.


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## crossup (May 13, 2009)

Thats where we disagree, I say a Canfield ONE can approach an XC bike and in fact, my finding is I can clean climbs with the ONE that I can not on a 100mm XC bike or my even 150mm AM rig and no I'm not talkin situations where the extra travel is the key. The only downside is 6 pounds of extra weight which I'd never notice since I carry 12 pounds of Camelback HOG backpack any time I ride(I pack for the wife too). 
Point is the ONE is so good at XC and AM, I've sold my Enduro and the Pitch is up for sale now...I did the head to head comparison and the ONE beat both bikes at their role, so why keep inferior, limited bikes?
Your statement/opinion may be quite valid in general however, the ONE is definitely the exception. But I bet it wont be the only one for long 



mtbnozpikr said:


> I'm thinking that a "totally competent" xc bike will destroy a "totally competent dh bike" in a climb. There is a reason why certain bikes are built to ride downhill and others are built to ride uphill. Sure a modern dh rig will climb better than an old one, but it will not approach what an xc rig can do.


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## crossup (May 13, 2009)

The ONE, unlike the Pitch does NOT pedal bob, first off. I always considered my RP23BV Propedal Pitch to be pretty bob free, but thats just because I had never ridden a V2 Canfield. Once I rode the Canfield then rode the Pitch immediately afterwards my reaction was I couldnt believe how much the Pitch moved and I had been basically unaware.

The ONE beat the Pitch in keeping the tire hooked(maybe a coil Pitch would do better), it wastes far less energy and balance to pedaling forces, it keep the front end planted better than the Pitch does, even when I lower the front to 120mm(which is so much trouble with U-turn I never do). 
Lastly, it has a poise and stability the XC bikes seems to avoid and the Pitch lacks to a point which just makes it work better when control is key.
Bottom line, its not even close, I honestly cant think of anything my Pitch does better than the ONE and thats running the same tires/wheels/cranks etc so the only difference comes from frame and suspension. Pretty obvious, the Canfields bottled some magic :thumbsup:



mtbswindler said:


> your canfield may climb better than your pitch (i find this really hard to believe, considering with my comp pitch i could climb some technical shiiii.) but maybe the small isnt working out...? ohhhh yeah... way to hard to believe.


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

mtbnozpikr said:


> I'm thinking that a "totally competent" xc bike will destroy a "totally competent dh bike" in a climb. There is a reason why certain bikes are built to ride downhill and others are built to ride uphill. Sure a modern dh rig will climb better than an old one, but it will not approach what an xc rig can do.


So obviously I won't know until I try it, but the reason I'm doing this is because I like going downhill better than going uphill. Plus I would rather have an advantage going downhill since I tend to get hurt more going downhill.

Will it suck more with extra weight going uphill? Of course, but maybe I'll leave my granola bars the 10 lbs of dog treats and the bike pump I never use out of my camelback when I go out.

Or I will carry the same **** and get stronger.

I just want to get rid of that ridiculous brain bouncing chatter I get even on the local trail I run or I guess I could use the brake more.

The thing is, I like that room. That room you are in where everything around what you're looking at is a streak of light and what you are focusing on is clear. It's really slow, but everything around you is cranking by like it doesn't matter.

BTW, I bought my girlfriend a Nomad with a Talas 36. Guess what I did the first day I had it. Yep swapped it over to my setup. Hated it. Extra weight and no other benefit except the horribly extensive fine tuning and no on the fly lockout and less travel then my Revelation, yeah measured it. Ohhh adjustable travel, I want all the travel all the time, just want different compression.

Sorry didn't mean to sound so cross about the talas, but I spent some serious time with that thing and maybe since I'm a newb it didn't work out, but my Revelation is far superior to it and way lighter. It's just that I'm a huge Fox fan, ran it in all my offroad trucks got T-shirts stickers and everything, big fan, but was really let down on the MTB stuff.

It actually broke my heart to buy Rockshock, but less weight and half the price I just couldn't justify my brand loyalty.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

KAZU said:


> So obviously I won't know until I try it, but the reason I'm doing this is because I like going downhill better than going uphill. Plus I would rather have an advantage going downhill since I tend to get hurt more going downhill.
> 
> Will it suck more with extra weight going uphill? Of course, but maybe I'll leave my granola bars the 10 lbs of dog treats and the bike pump I never use out of my camelback when I go out.
> 
> ...


You quoted me before your post. Is this directed at me?

I'm sure you'll enjoy your bike and definitely your fork as well. If you want to climb with it, you'll climb. It will probably be more difficult than on a bike built to climb but as you said, you'll deal with it.


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## crossup (May 13, 2009)

Going to the Boxxer is going to raise your headtube about an inch which is about 1 deg more raked out.
Offsetting that, you will setup more sag than the Rev so net gain will be about 1/4"-1/2" or approx .5 deg.
Thats barely enough to notice . 
I think the biggest negative thing you'll notice is the increase effort to manual from the extra weight.
Also dont expect the Boxxer to erase braking bumps...its a big improvement(over the Rev) but nothing outside of coil springs does well with chatter. In fact, at Whistler last year, the whole mountain was one continuous braking bump. My Pitch with Dual Air Rev actually handled the bumps better than the Norco A-line I rented. A lot was due to my Rev being perfectly setup but but still I did expected the real DH bike to do better, the Pitch improved the faster you went but the Aline started to skate at the same speeds. Might have been tires too


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## crossup (May 13, 2009)

Thinking about this more, to be fair, my Pitch may not climb as well as others: mine is 3+ pounds lighter than stock but almost all of that is off the front end. My climbing is limited by keeping the front end down compared to the ONE. More so, I also moved the cockpit aft by using a short stem and offset seatpost. 
My current Pitch is my second(1st was stolen) and I recall wanting to lighten the front end for manualling on the first one... I did not consider the impact on climbing when I blinged out the 2nd one.



mtbswindler said:


> your canfield may climb better than your pitch (i find this really hard to believe, considering with my comp pitch i could climb some technical shiiii.) but maybe the small isnt working out...? ohhhh yeah... way to hard to believe.


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

mtbnozpikr said:


> You quoted me before your post. Is this directed at me?
> 
> I'm sure you'll enjoy your bike and definitely your fork as well. If you want to climb with it, you'll climb. It will probably be more difficult than on a bike built to climb but as you said, you'll deal with it.


No, It's not directed at you. Sorry It is just easier to hit the quote and I didn't mean to sound defensive or anything like that.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

KAZU said:


> No, It's not directed at you. Sorry It is just easier to hit the quote and I didn't mean to sound defensive or anything like that.


Gotcha, not a problem.


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## Vertr (Oct 10, 2006)

crossup said:


> Going to the Boxxer is going to raise your headtube about an inch which is about 1 deg more raked out.
> Offsetting that, you will setup more sag than the Rev so net gain will be about 1/4"-1/2" or approx .5 deg.
> Thats barely enough to notice .
> I think the biggest negative thing you'll notice is the increase effort to manual from the extra weight.
> Also dont expect the Boxxer to erase braking bumps...its a big improvement(over the Rev) but nothing outside of coil springs does well with chatter. In fact, at Whistler last year, the whole mountain was one continuous braking bump. My Pitch with Dual Air Rev actually handled the bumps better than the Norco A-line I rented. A lot was due to my Rev being perfectly setup but but still I did expected the real DH bike to do better, the Pitch improved the faster you went but the Aline started to skate at the same speeds. Might have been tires too


Your calculations are touch off. Revelation A2C height: 530mm. Boxxer: 570mm. 40mm difference = 1.5 inches. According to my calculations, this will slack the bike out to 66.9 HA from 68.9 with the Rev. (Obviously more than .5 degree).


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

I will be dropping at least 2in. with the direct mount, my stem is setup kinda high.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I will be really interested to hear what you think of the Boxxer on your Nomad. I think a lot of us forget that unless you are racing weight doesn't matter so much. Do what suits your riding style and have fun with it.


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## crossup (May 13, 2009)

First off, I actually measured the AC, probably getting some loss from high negative air pressure on the Rev(fork not topped out, my bad) and second, my .5 deg is assuming you run more sag as 25% sag on 8" is .5" more than on 6" and I find 30% is the sweet spot on the Boxxer.
Either way, I'd say 67/67.5 isn't a bad place to be, at least till it gets seriously steep.



Vertr said:


> Your calculations are touch off. Revelation A2C height: 530mm. Boxxer: 570mm. 40mm difference = 1.5 inches. According to my calculations, this will slack the bike out to 66.9 HA from 68.9 with the Rev. (Obviously more than .5 degree).


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## crossup (May 13, 2009)

Exactly, yes a 24 pound, skinny tired, 100mm XC bike will climb a fire road faster all else being equal but what you loose going up you more than gain going down.
Pretty much everyone who heard I was planning on riding a DH bike uphill predicted I'd hate it but surprise surprise, I got the right bike and its nothing but good. 
So definitely give it a try and see how you like it, the more it works for you the more others will see DH doesnt have to one way only.



cassieno said:


> I will be really interested to hear what you think of the Boxxer on your Nomad. I think a lot of us forget that unless you are racing weight doesn't matter so much. Do what suits your riding style and have fun with it.


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

So got my stuff the other day rode all weekend with it.

Not surprisingly, drastic improvement going down hill.

I went from a 29.1 lb rig to 32 lb rig. So gained 3 lbs in the front, didn't notice it at all riding around the neighborhood.

Man is it a different animal going down the trail. Love it, and don't know why more people don't do this.

I tried to take a good before and after pic, I lined up the front hub in the exact same place so you can tell the difference in height and slack.

before



after



Believe it or not it feels lower in the front and I'm thinking about going to a riser stem. 
This is the setup I have.





Hopefully you can see the amount of travel I'm getting with the current springs in the pic below.

There is about 3" of travel that is unused. I assume that these shocks will break in some and give me more travel, but I'm worried that as I get better and don't over shoot every landing and hit flats, I will want a lighter spring. It came with 2 springs, how can you tell if they are heavier or lighter?



I will be doing some XC this week and plan on doing a trail that kicks my ass uphill. I'm expecting it to be worse with this fork, but judging by the feel that I got from it this weekend there is a little part of me that thinks it might be as good or better.

We'll see.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Awesome, thanks for posting this up. It sounds like you are having a lot of fun and that's all that matters.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

cassieno said:


> Awesome, thanks for posting this up. It sounds like you are having a lot of fun and that's all that matters.


Exactly, glad you like it.


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## ron m. (Aug 1, 2009)

Nice!

You could always flip the stem around if you want it higher. OR you and I could trade... I have a Funn stem on a Boxxer fork too... too high for my taste.


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

I looked into flipping the stem, but I don't think it's designed to do that. The hole pattern is different on the other side, they are just access holes. 

I only have 2 days on this stem so if I hate it by the end of the week I'll get a new one.


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## ron m. (Aug 1, 2009)

KAZU said:


> I looked into flipping the stem, but I don't think it's designed to do that. The hole pattern is different on the other side, they are just access holes.
> 
> I only have 2 days on this stem so if I hate it by the end of the week I'll get a new one.


Yeah, get used to them first. You may like them in the end. BTW, serious about the stem trade. Or I'll buy it off you. What brand is it anyway?


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

It's this one its 20* drop


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

Did 7 miles of single track today. I did the mostly uphill direction with and techy, boulders, rocks and lots of roots. 

It could just be that I'm just getting better at riding or the fact that it's cooler out now, but had no complaints and did it in less time then the last, didn't even notice the weight until I got to the hill I always hike up, hiking it is worse now with the extra 3 lbs, but I'll just get in better shape.

I thought the steering stops would hinder my turning, but it never hit the stops all day. There is a twistier trail that I do that might bind her up, but we'll see.

Maybe I'm just not good enough to notice the difference, but for me this is it. Big fan.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

KAZU said:


> hiking it is worse now with the extra 3 lbs, but I'll just get in better shape.
> 
> Maybe I'm just not good enough to notice the difference, but for me this is it. Big fan.


That's a good way to look at it. It always helps to be an optimist. Glad you like the new fork.


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## BaeckerX1 (Oct 19, 2007)

KAZU said:


> Man is it a different animal going down the trail. Love it, and don't know why more people don't do this.


I'm guessing it voids the warranty? Plus it throws off the intended geometry. I'm glad you like it though.



KAZU said:


> I thought the steering stops would hinder my turning, but it never hit the stops all day. There is a twistier trail that I do that might bind her up, but we'll see.
> 
> Maybe I'm just not good enough to notice the difference, but for me this is it. Big fan.


Man, you must not have switchbacks where you live. I can't imagine riding a dual crown in Colorado. Half the trails you wouldn't be able to make most of the turns with the limited turning radius. If you really had to have that much travel I would have gone for a 180 single crown coil fork personally. Handles the DH chatter and drops well, but you still keep the maneuverability of the single crown. Plus you're not running 1.6 inches more travel in the front than the rear. The balance of the bike has to feel completely different. Hope you continue to enjoy it and don't have any problems.


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## crossup (May 13, 2009)

I can turn 3-4' radius turn with my Boxxer WC...pretty much hits the stops right when you start to think it has a lot of lock.... More than enough for any trail in my area, plus theres always the moto technique of sliding the back around the turn.
Being rubber, one can also trim the stops some, I think for most bikes the lower on the stauntion you mount it, the more travel you get, of course your frame has to be shaped to allow a low placement.


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

BaeckerX1 said:


> I'm guessing it voids the warranty? Plus it throws off the intended geometry. I'm glad you like it though.
> 
> Man, you must not have switchbacks where you live. I can't imagine riding a dual crown in Colorado. Half the trails you wouldn't be able to make most of the turns with the limited turning radius. If you really had to have that much travel I would have gone for a 180 single crown coil fork personally. Handles the DH chatter and drops well, but you still keep the maneuverability of the single crown. Plus you're not running 1.6 inches more travel in the front than the rear. The balance of the bike has to feel completely different. Hope you continue to enjoy it and don't have any problems.


Thanks.

I don't think I'm good enough to notice or feel the difference in geometry, but since I build suspensions on 4x4s and set up chassis based on the suspension, I know that setting that stuff up is based on max travel on flat ground. I take into account many variables as far as clearance and anti-squat in the rear and squat in the front etc. However, these things like mountain bikes will never see flat ground. All these calculations rely not completely, but heavily on the center of gravity. On flat ground in a 4x4 rig it is static, but it is subject to change based upon the angle the vehicle sits. Therefore if we want to build a climbing rig, we adjust the geometry accordingly.

The benefit to a mountain bike is that the center of gravity is not fixed. As in you can move on the bike and complement the geometry as you feel is needed.

As of now I feel that my tools are up to it, now it's up to me to get it done.

In New Hampshire there are switchbacks on many trails. I havn't had a problem on them so far, but then again I don't really enjoy those trails, I only do them to get to the top of stuff that is more to my liking.

Speaking of tools, I made a chain retaining device, I hope it works tomorrow.


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

The chain retainer worked awesome. Rode Friday through Monday without losing the chain. So tonight I hogged out some more weight.


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

So I put a solid month of riding on my setup.

Changed a few things, but very minor. It's 31.4 lbs and it's quick.

Love this setup.

I got a new HERO2 so I made a little video of what I generally ride.

I've only been riding since the end of August so don't judge me.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

KAZU said:


> So I put a solid month of riding on my setup.
> 
> Changed a few things, but very minor. It's 31.4 lbs and it's quick.
> 
> ...


VERY cool! You're doing well with the drops and what not considering you've been only doing this for a few months :thumbsup:


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

Thanks, doing the drops and gaps are no credit to me. The ramps are perfect at Highland, all you have to do is point it off of them and the send you to the landing, it's cheating really, but I'll take the confidence boost.


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## drastic. (Nov 22, 2010)

at your speed, if you practice compressing the bike on the take off, youll start clearing all those jumps no problem.

great riding for how short of a time span you've been on the bike.


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## infamous24 (Jul 20, 2009)

Do you have the 68/73mm Stylo cranks? If so you can get a Blackspire Stinger that mounts on your BB to hold your chain on. I put one on my Nomad and it helped out a lot in keeping the chain on in rough terrain.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Nice. Good job on the progression for so short a time riding.

How'd you get your Nomad so light? Do you have a complete build list?


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## genemk (Sep 15, 2009)

Well, I DID judge you and you look like you're doing great! Keep up the stoke. Glad you're enjoying your new addiction.


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

Thanks guys for the ego boost, I hope to ride a lot more next season to get bette. It's the most fun I've had in a while. I thought picking it up at 33 years old, I would never do the drops, but now it seems that I'm looking for them.



drastic. said:


> at your speed, if you practice compressing the bike on the take off, youll start clearing all those jumps no problem.
> 
> great riding for how short of a time span you've been on the bike.


Normally I can clear those tables without much effort, it had rained alot the day before and the trail was slow. I'm not good enough to make things happen by pedaling and popping yet, so thanks for the advice.



infamous24 said:


> Do you have the 68/73mm Stylo cranks? If so you can get a Blackspire Stinger that mounts on your BB to hold your chain on. I put one on my Nomad and it helped out a lot in keeping the chain on in rough terrain.


I actually ended up getting an MRP G2, the noise of the chain slapping drove me nuts on the one that I made. I didn't hear it at all on the XC trails but on the downhill stuff it got annoying.

The MRP seems to be working great so far.





KRob said:


> Nice. Good job on the progression for so short a time riding.
> 
> How'd you get your Nomad so light? Do you have a complete build list?


The frame is a small so that has a lot to do with the weight, rather then writing up a build list I'll just take pictures and post them later since I can't remember all the stuff that's on there.


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## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

Nomad looks sick! The DHXAir on the VPP1 sucks,no mid stroke support!You would be MUCH happier with a RC-4 on that setup!Nice Vid!!!


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

socalMX said:


> Nomad looks sick! The DHXAir on the VPP1 sucks,no mid stroke support!You would be MUCH happier with a RC-4 on that setup!Nice Vid!!!


Agreed! My nomad was awesome with the DHX 5.

If you want to get into a quality coil for somewhat cheap, i got a diverse duler for ya. Simple internals with lots of moto tech. You still get high/low speed compression adjustment, bottom out and rebound. It's even the right size for a nomad :thumbsup:


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## Scruffynerfhearder (Nov 20, 2011)

I just swiched too


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

Got some saint cranks this week, they are beautiful. Drunk online shopping for a new bottom bracket and I ended up with the saint cankset, go figure.

I also got this app on my phone that is an angle finder. My forks are 66 degrees without me on it if anybody wanted to know.


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## nponto (Jul 26, 2011)

Looks like you were having so much fun with that setup. Honestly, to me, it's all that matters. Keep riding and hitting those jumps :thumbsup:

O yeah... 33 yrs old isn't old, you need to find more jumps 
I thought I saw somebody commented here still doing those crazy stuff at 60 yrs old. So much respect for that guy.



KAZU said:


> Got some saint cranks this week, they are beautiful. Drunk online shopping for a new bottom bracket and I ended up with the saint cankset, go figure.
> 
> I also got this app on my phone that is an angle finder. My forks are 66 degrees without me on it if anybody wanted to know.


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

Sorry it took so long to post these. Been really busy. Moved and it sucked, bright side is I got my own room finally.


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## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

Sick man, compare the two setups! Post those in the SC section as well!


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## arkon11 (Jul 26, 2009)

The Hook Ups boards on the walls are a nice touch.


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

Thanks man my buddy is sponsored by them so he gives them to me. He gave me 8 of them one time and I'm still on my first one, I ride bowls mostly so I don't really abuse them.

Here is a wider angle of the room. You might notice some other goodies, well at least I'm psyched on them.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

KAZU said:


> Here is a wider angle of the room. You might notice some other goodies, well at least I'm psyched on them.


Haha that looks just like my room. I've got three bikes in it plus the tools/stands and all of my ski equipment. I love it.


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## Eat Dirt (Dec 30, 2011)

Yeah stick withit! it a good sport!


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

Been riding my dirt jump bike a lot since i got it for an X mas present to myself, well more than my Nomad.



I got me a couple of birthday presents too.



I decided to get a coil for the rear since the air sucks when it's cold out and I wanted to try a coil.

Went with the X-Fusion vector HLR and since I have a Boxxer on my Nomad I thought I would keep the trend and get a longer rear shock went from 8.5X2.5 to a 8.75X2.75

With the bigger rear tire and longer shock my angle up front is now 70.9 degrees.
There was plenty of room for the shock and nothing binds at full bump.


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

BTW, it gained about a pound when I put the shock on. It is now 32.15lbs.


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## socalMX (Oct 31, 2009)

Sweet! Push link? DJ bike over the Nomad??? Hmmm...


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

No just the stock link. 

It's cold and icy/snowy out. I've been going to an indoor park. Nomad is a bit overkill for it.


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## slimphatty (Sep 9, 2011)

Sweet vid KAZU, I'm pretty jealous that you have such a sweet bike park next to you. It looks like great practice for jumps and berms. Both which I need to improve on. Sweet bikes too!


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

Got new brakes and rotors!


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## slimphatty (Sep 9, 2011)

Saints rock! I got them on my glory.


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

Rotors are sick too!


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## drastic. (Nov 22, 2010)

I'd give up the little bit of travel you gained, for a stock length shock so you don't have the ridiculously steep HA. 71* HA?...


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

man. I'm stoked you're having so much fun. When you get a chance to ride a proper DH bike (DH angles, like 8+ inch travel F/R, 13.5-14 inch BB, and a 64 degree HA, its going to be a revelation. Anyway, keep pinning it and having fun mountain biking, and start saving your pennies for a DH bike!


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

The rear sags about 30% when I'm on it, so when I'm on it it's way more slack, but I know what you mean. 

For now even if I had a full on downhill bike I don't think it would help me, I'm just not good enough yet. 

Thanks for the encouragement, it's always appreciated.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

KAZU said:


> For now even if I had a full on downhill bike I don't think it would help me, I'm just not good enough yet.


I don't know... Judging by some of the pictures you have posted I would beg to differ.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

mtbnozpikr said:


> I don't know... Judging by some of the pictures you have posted I would beg to differ.


Oops, videos...


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## Johnny No.5 (Mar 20, 2008)

Having the "right" bike builds confidence and skills.


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## drastic. (Nov 22, 2010)

Johnny No.5 said:


> Having the "right" head angle builds confidence and skills.


**fixed.

just being fickle though w/ OP.  :thumbsup:


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

drastic. said:


> **fixed.
> 
> just being fickle though w/ OP.  :thumbsup:


maybe my e-sarcasm meter is poorly calibrated, but I think there is a hell of a lot more that goes into geometry/right bike then HA. The v10 is one of the fastest bikes out there, and pre 11 it had a 67 degree ha and had no problems winning world cups and championships and local races alike.


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## drastic. (Nov 22, 2010)

William42 said:


> maybe my e-sarcasm meter is poorly calibrated, *but I think there is a hell of a lot more that goes into geometry/right bike then HA*. The v10 is one of the fastest bikes out there, and pre 11 it had a 67 degree ha and had no problems winning world cups and championships and local races alike.


of coarse. but giving up probably roughly 5* in static ha is huge.
plus w/ the v10, you can get away w/ running more sag in the rear to get the BBH and HA where it typically ends up.

couple that w/ the increase in bbh the nomad's going to get from the longer e2e shock w/o adjusting the shock mounting points, the extra 1/2" or w/e the extra may be gained, is negated by the effects it caused elsewhere.

just my thoughts/2c. as long as the rider enjoys it more than prior, that's all that really matters than e-opinions.


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## hikerguy98 (Sep 19, 2008)

your hitting the wooden ramp at the top of hellion and that other drop at the start of the video. youll be ready for the drop at the top of the chairlift in no time. great riding btw. i have a season pass for this year so im hoping to use the hell out of it


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## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

Updated shot.


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## ron m. (Aug 1, 2009)

Those tires look HUGE!


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