# Are gravel bikes dumb?



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Why?


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Don't know if I would say dumb, more options and variety is good, but I suspect a lot of their buyers are! Jack of all trades, master of none. Not as good as a proper road bike on tarmac but very limited in what they can do off road too. If you can only have one bike, you ride mostly road, you need to ride on gravel path occasionally, you have a beard and your name is Heath then I guess a gravel bike is ideal!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> If you can only have one bike, you ride mostly road, you need to ride on gravel path occasionally, you have a beard and your name is Heath then I guess a gravel bike is ideal!


What if you live in an area full of empty dirt roads that are accessible via 5-25 miles of pavement riding? Do you still need the beard?


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## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

Maybe gravel is different where everyone else lives, but you need a fat bike to survive the gravel in my area.:skep:


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

Another "Dumb Gravel Bike" thread. Why? What is this fascination with gravel bikes? If you like to ride on gravel, they seem like a pretty good idea. It's not as if they're anything new. The recent marketing of "gravel" bikes may be new, but seems a legitimate outgrowth of the growing popularity of trekking/bike packing.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Gravel bikes are awesome, basically a road bike you can ride anywhere, which if you're like me, you used to do in the old days anyway, but now there's better tires, brakes and geometry. Unless you're a shaved legged racer dude, they're just as fast as a road bike using comparable tires. I'm glad they're a fad and flooding the market, more choices and lower prices.


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## Gumby_rider (Apr 18, 2017)

Probably, but not anymore than mountain bikes.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

J.B. Weld said:


> What if you live in an area full of empty dirt roads that are accessible via 5-25 miles of pavement riding? Do you still need the beard?


Yes. Compulsory.

Sounds like you may be one of the six people in the world for whom gravel bikes make sense? They are an option but let's not pretend they are some great innovation or advance. Apart from there size of the wheels, you are basically looking at a nineties mountain bike with crap tyres! Slightly different, ok, but you're still throwing away most of the advances that have made off road bikes as capable as they are today.

Would I buy a gravel bike in your position? No. I'd buy a lightweight hard-tail and put Specialized Nimbus tyres on it.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Since "Gravel" bikes are the O.G's of cycling they should be shown the proper respect imho. Take note of the "new school' seat forward geo.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

No dumber than any other trend and less dumb than some-if it works for you, it's not dumb. I've been riding fat tired road bikes (32c+) since the early 2000's and love to ride a meandering mix of dirt and paved roads and paths on my countryside rambles. Versatile road bikes are being marketed as a thing now but it's just branding.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Are multiple threads about gravel bikes dumb?

Why?


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

No, quite the opposite.

I built a gravel bike recently from an older steel MTB hardtail. Why? I live in Vermont and we have amazing trails but those amazing trails take time to dry after the snowy winter. I've got a month or two of decent spring weather but can't get ride the trails. What to do? Explore hundreds of miles of empty, scenic and quiet dirt roads right out my front door.

I started doing this back in March and I love it. Keep in mind that I've been mountain biking for 20+ years and have never owned anything with a drop bar. It's whole new side to "mountain biking" I never thought I'd be into.

I got up early on Saturday and did a 25ish mile "gravel" ride with about 2.5k of climbing - about 20 of those miles were on dirt roads. I never saw more than a few cars, got all muddy, saw some wildlife, pedaled with the mountains and old farms around me - relaxing and tranquil but a killer work out.

I even signed up for a 25 mile gravel grinder this weekend that local MTB club is putting on.

I've also dropped a few pounds from riding more often and my legs will be primed when everything dries out.

















Say what you will about gravel riding but it's damn fun and will improve your mountain biking.

As for building a gravel bike - it was as simple as putting 1.9 XC tires on and adding gravel specific drop bars with roadie brakes and a shifter. Very easy and didn't cost more than $200 in new parts.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> Yes. Compulsory.
> 
> Sounds like you may be one of the six people in the world for whom gravel bikes make sense? They are an option but let's not pretend they are some great innovation or advance. Apart from there size of the wheels, you are basically looking at a nineties mountain bike with crap tyres!


No, they're not a great innovation but they are a refinement and that's a good thing. A nineties mtb with crap tires? Not.

I'd argue that for 95% of people they're every bit as good as road bike and also more comfortable and versatile. Win/win.

Hardtail is a decent option, that's what I use now for those (multi-surface) situations but a nice gravel bike would be ideal.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Gasp4Air said:


> Another "Dumb Gravel Bike" thread. Why?


Why the hell not? Apparently y'all got nothing better to do


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

I think it is dumb to name them gravel bikes

can't do anything better than a CX bike can do w/equal tires


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

Whatever you do, don't mention carbon gravel bikes with tubeless carbon wheels.

Heads would explode.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> Why the hell not? Apparently y'all got nothing better to do


Indeed. Everyone has more time to ***** about bikes they don't like and judge other people's decisions than they have tine to ride their own bikes.

Gravel bike hate is imagined.


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

127.0.0.1 said:


> I think it is dumb to name them gravel bikes
> 
> can't do anything better than a CX bike can do w/equal tires


That's the thing though. Even if you can cram fat tires into your cross frame, like I did, you have practically no clearance. Which makes a difference.

Then there are the geometry differences, which change the handling, body position, clearance, etc.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> Yes. Compulsory.
> 
> Sounds like you may be one of the six people in the world for whom gravel bikes make sense? They are an option but let's not pretend they are some great innovation or advance. Apart from there size of the wheels, you are basically looking at a nineties mountain bike with crap tyres! Slightly different, ok, but you're still throwing away most of the advances that have made off road bikes as capable as they are today.
> 
> Would I buy a gravel bike in your position? No. I'd buy a lightweight hard-tail and put Specialized Nimbus tyres on it.


Come to the midwest, there are thousands of guys that ride gravel. Why, CAUSE THERE IS NO CHOICE lol.

Seriously though I dont get the gravel bike issue. If you like away from densely populated areas they start to make sense real fast.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

The bikes, I don't mind. I'm still scratching my head over the activity though. I'm still trying to understand the appeal. The two photos below depict gravel roads (sort of) near me and to be honest if I had to cross those I'd rather use a car or motorcycle. But if you all would enjoy it that's fine; I'm not asking you to stop. I'd choose to spend my riding day some place with rocks, jumps, berms, etc.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Nat said:


> The bikes, I don't mind. I'm still scratching my head over the activity though. I'm still trying to understand the appeal. The two photos below depict gravel roads (sort of) near me and to be honest if I had to cross those I'd rather use a car or motorcycle. But if you all would enjoy it that's fine; I'm not asking you to stop. I'd choose to spend my riding day some place with rocks, jumps, berms, etc.


And if proper mountain bike trails are hours or even days away?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

127.0.0.1 said:


> I think it is dumb to name them gravel bikes
> 
> can't do anything better than a CX bike can do w/equal tires


That's debatable, and also a lot of gravel bikes can accept wider tires than most cx bikes. A gravel bike is just a refined hybrid borrowing design aspects from road, cx, mtb and touring bikes.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

RAKC Ind said:


> Come to the midwest, there are thousands of guys that ride gravel. Why, CAUSE THERE IS NO CHOICE lol.


I lived in Des Moines for a few morbid years. In hindsight I should've not tried so hard to mountain bike on the few miles of singletrack there and instead bought a cross bike to roll on the rails-to-trail (gravel) and paved farm roads. Being a non-white person traveling alone through rural white America takes a certain amount of fortitude but that's it's own issue and I think I could've done it. However, I instead chose to move to some place with mountains.


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

Nat said:


> The bikes, I don't mind. I'm still scratching my head over the activity though. I'm still trying to understand the appeal. The two photos below depict gravel roads (sort of) near me and to be honest if I had to cross those I'd rather use a car or motorcycle. But if you all would enjoy it that's fine; I'm not asking you to stop. I'd choose to spend my riding day some place with rocks, jumps, berms, etc.


For me, gravel riding is there for when singletrack is not an option. When trails are too wet, not open or if there isn't enough time to load the bike a drive to the trail head - that's when the gravel bike comes into play.

So if you can't ride trails at the moment would you rather ride some dirt roads or sit on the couch?


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## Porkchop_Power (Jul 30, 2008)

*Go ride some gravel!*







I have a cross bike and use it to ride gravel when the trails are snowed in or I am only doing a lunch ride and want to avoid cars. Is it as fun as bombing singletrack in the backcountry? No. Is it better than riding next to traffic and getting a good workout? YES. Is there a big difference between a cross and gravel bike? No and if you are not doing super steep climbs the standard cross gearing is fine. This photos is from a "gravel" ride I do from my office. Plenty of cool sights not to mention super delicious looking farm animals along the way! Also you can ride some mellow singletrack as well as pavement along the way. Would not enjoy riding my mountain bike on this nor my roadbike which would not handle the gravel very well.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

life behind bars said:


> And if proper mountain bike trails are hours or even days away?


Yeah, I suppose. I used to be in that situation (see my other post about Iowa) and decided to move but I know that's not an option for a lot of people.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

VTSession said:


> So if you can't ride trails at the moment would you rather ride some dirt roads or sit on the couch?


Biking is not my only hobby, so when the trails aren't ready I do something else (usually hiking, running, gymming, Jeeping, skiing, snowboarding, photography). Sometimes I sit on the couch though, like right now chatting with you guys.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Nat said:


> Yeah, I suppose. I used to be in that situation (see my other post about Iowa) and decided to move but I know that's not an option for a lot of people.


Yes, sometimes you take what you can get while you can. Rather ride a bike than the couch.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

RAKC Ind said:


> Come to the midwest, there are thousands of guys that ride gravel. Why, CAUSE THERE IS NO CHOICE lol.


There is little like that in the UK. There are gravel tracks but they are much rougher than that. Ridges, holes, big chunks of rock but never as smooth as that. A mountain bike is always a better choice.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Nat said:


> The bikes, I don't mind. I'm still scratching my head over the activity though. I'm still trying to understand the appeal. The two photos below depict gravel roads (sort of) near me and to be honest if I had to cross those I'd rather use a car or motorcycle.


At least there's no traffic. They aren't particularly exciting but I have miles of empty dirt/gravel roads like these that I can ride to from my house, and unfortunately I have to drive for most singletrack rides.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

They are as dumb as fat bikes and goofy 27.5 bikes.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

life behind bars said:


> Yes, sometimes you take what you can get while you can. Rather ride a bike than the couch.


That's true. It used to be that bike or couch were my only two choices but I've learned to enjoy sports and hobbies other than biking.



Mr Pig said:


> There is little like that in the UK. There are gravel tracks but they are much rougher than that. Ridges, holes, big chunks of rock but never as smooth as that. A mountain bike is always a better choice.
> 
> View attachment 1195817



View attachment 1195818
[/QUOTE]

Both of these areas are pretty. Your guys' photos make want to explore them, although I'd want to use a Jeep or mountain bike rather than a cross bike.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

VTSession said:


> View attachment 1195806
> 
> 
> View attachment 1195807


I have to say, that looks pretty nice. It's not the soft, dry, dusty, washboarded chunder we have out here.


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

Where I ride a road bike and mtn bike are petty much all you need. We don't have "gravel" roads here. dirt roads, but most of those either have too much traffic and you will get dusted or are rough enough that a 29HT with proper flat bars is really a better ride. I did a dirt road ride last year 36 miles, 5,000 ft of climbing. Pretty much climb for 18 miles and then descend for 18 miles. Not that much fun, but good training. Still had to watch dirt road traffic on the way up and on the way down it was solid 20-30 mph limited by how much rattling you could stand. There was one guy who did it on a gravel bike and he just barely made it. Up was not too bad as the gravel bike did not hurt too much, but did not seem to help either. On the way down the narrow tires did not grip well and high pressure and lack of suspension forced him to go much slower. I was 29er HT with 2.35/2.2 tires and was getting bounced around. So here it just seems pointless to try to ride "gravel". We have lots of dirt roads to ride on, but features of a gravel bike are just not condusive to most of those trails. There is new trend of "gravel grinder races", but a good number of those are won on flat bar Mtn bikes.


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

Nat said:


> I have to say, that looks pretty nice. It's not the soft, dry, dusty, washboarded chunder we have out here.


The dirt roads around here are a mixed bag of dirt, loose gravel, mud and ruts that's why 90% of my gravel bike are mountain bike parts.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

JoePAz said:


> Where I ride a road bike and mtn bike are petty much all you need.


Same here, and unless you use your bike for transportation you really don't need either. For me it's just the n+1 deal, I'm not going to give up my road or mtb but it would be nice to have one if I had a spare couple of thousand dollars laying around that I didn't know what to do with. Mountain bike is fine on dirt roads around here but a lot of times I'll be on a nice road ride 20 miles out and see a gravel road heading off into the hills that's just begging to be ridden. Also the dirt roads around here have pretty much zero traffic, a lot less than most trails I've ridden around Tucson 

Anyway I think some of the new offerings would be better road bikes for a lot of people than the traditional one they're riding now.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

JoePAz said:


> dirt roads, but most of those either have too much traffic and you will get dusted or are rough enough that a 29HT with proper flat bars is really a better ride.


That's kind of what I have where I live. I see guys riding their cross bikes on the dirt roads sometimes while I'm passing them in my Jeep, going as slowly as I can to avoid kicking up a ton of dust, but it gets so dry and dusty here that they get enveloped by a thick cloud anyway. I feel bad for them but I'm thankful that it's not me getting choked out by me. When dry, the unmaintained roads here end up being super loose 4" deep dust with lava rock everywhere. The maintained gravel roads are really wide, loose, and washboarded.


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## hogfly (Mar 6, 2018)

Gravel grinding has gotten huge around here because we have so many high quality gravel roads that lead to awesome spots. Our road riding is good, too, but it's a bit dangerous. Here's an example of a classic ride for a gravel grinder around here:


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

So there really is a difference between Cyclocross and Gravel Bikes. This lady explains that Gravel Bikes are more for run of the mill all-purpose offroading, gravel, fire road, and relatively easy smooth singletrack. That's in contrast to Cyclocross which is race-bred, and emphasizes speed over versatility. So it seems like a Gravel Bike is more of a rigid XC bike and a Cyclocross bike is more of a heavy-duty road bike.

So...I've changed my opinion of Gravel Bikes lol. I just thought previously that it was dumb to spend $1500 just to ride on gravel, and I still think that, because you can ride gravel all day on a $200 BSO, but if a Gravel Bike can do more offroad than a Cyclocross bike then it's a better bike from an MTB point of view. What I would like to have (notice I did not put NEED to have, because I don't need it), is a lightweight rigid bike with a straight handlebar that can handle simple singletrack that's relatively smooth and doesn't have 8-inch rocks to dodge or roll over. If that happens to be 'called' a Gravel Bike, then so be it.

Something like this:

https://smile.amazon.com/Raleigh-Re...106931&sr=1-5&keywords=gravel+bike&th=1&psc=1

Raleigh Redux 1 Urban Assault Bike $337, 26 lbs.

They say the tires are heavy to begin with so putting on a wider tire up front shouldn't add much more weight. 2.35 width should be plenty on front. They don't even say the bike's size but the Schwalbe Big Ben look to be 27.5" tires (nice). The 27.5" I have right now w/4.5 lb air fork is 33 lbs with everything, so 7 lbs less would be interesting. Bottom line it's all about the weight of the bike that would attract me to something like this. That $200 BSO example above on gravel is 33-46 lbs total and this one is 26 lbs. I don't care about quality components in this example, who needs them on easy stuff anyway. I know that offends some but let's be practical for once about components that you need on an easy surface. So it's really the weight that's the number one factor for considering this bike type.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Mr Pig said:


> There is little like that in the UK. There are gravel tracks but they are much rougher than that. Ridges, holes, big chunks of rock but never as smooth as that. A mountain bike is always a better choice.
> 
> View attachment 1195817


I think that's why you don't "get" it. I have access to hundreds of miles of gravel roads in the National Forest adjacent to my house. And thousands of miles if I go bikepacking. All of which don't require a MTB, and which would actually be a much slower option. Speed = fun. They have enough protruding rock and braking bumps to make a road bike a poor option, and have fast sections where a MTB simply isn't ideal.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

richj8990 said:


> Bottom line it's all about the weight of the bike that would attract me to something like this.


If it is then you should put the bike on a scale before you buy it, IME bikes often are way off of what the manufacture lists and I would be amazed if that bike is within 3 or 4 pounds of what they say it is.

I think you have it backwards though. I'd never trade quality for weight savings, and quality components are nearly always lighter than cheap ones anyway.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> I think that's why you don't "get" it. I have access to hundreds of miles of gravel roads in the National Forest adjacent to my house.


If you live in a specific place where they make sense then fine. I think many buyers see them as a substitute for a mountain bike though, which they're not. I saw a guy on one at Glentress trail center, that's just ridiculous.

What I think happens is that manufacturers make these bikes because they see a possible market in a specific area of the world. Then, because they've made them anyway, they'll offer them for sale everywhere. Generate interest in the brand, look like you're moving with the times. So vain roadies will buy them as they let them ride off road while still being a roadie! Despite the fact that where they live the paths are not really suited to such a bike and a mountain bike would perform far better.

In the UK, I reckon you could count the places where a gravel bike would be good on the fingers of one elbow.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Mr Pig said:


> ...you are basically looking at a nineties mountain bike with crap tyres!


My gravel bike is my nineties mountain bike. Since any sort of resale would have been poor, I converted my old 26" bike by adding a disc brake tab and installing 29'er wheels and cross / expedition tires. Total investment was $200. I wouldn't drop the kind of cash needed for a new gravel specific bike.









As much as I love singletrack, sometimes the trails are too wet and riding gravel roads has to take the place of trail rides. Many of these roads lead to cool spots that are well off the beaten path.









We have tons of gravel roads in our area that are virtually deserted and good for long grinds. Here is a map of all of the gravel in our state:
https://coloradogravelroads.com/


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Mr Pig said:


> If you live in a specific place where they make sense then fine. I think many buyers see them as a substitute for a mountain bike though, which they're not. I saw a guy on one at Glentress trail center, that's just ridiculous.
> 
> What I think happens is that manufacturers make these bikes because they see a possible market in a specific area of the world. Then, because they've made them anyway, they'll offer them for sale everywhere. Generate interest in the brand, look like you're moving with the times. So vain roadies will buy them as they let them ride off road while still being a roadie! Despite the fact that where they live the paths are not really suited to such a bike and a mountain bike would perform far better.
> 
> In the UK, I reckon you could count the places where a gravel bike would be good on the fingers of one elbow.


See the map sgltrak posted. I can do 60 mile, 8000ft+ days with about a mile of pavement, total. The rest is gravel. From my front door.

But, I also live almost 3000ft above the highest point in the UK, so that might be a bit hard to fathom for you as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hogfly (Mar 6, 2018)

Le Duke said:


> See the map sgltrak posted. I can do 60 mile, 8000ft+ days with about a mile of pavement, total. The rest is gravel. From my front door.
> 
> But, I also live almost 3000ft above the highest point in the UK, so that might be a bit hard to fathom for you as well.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There is supposedly a gravel "race" in the works in the near future that will take a route from Bentonville, AR to Springfield, MO (120 miles by interstate) and be around 98% gravel/dirt roads.

Gravel grinding isn't really my thing currently (mainly because most of my riding and riding tastes center around my 10yo son at the moment who prefers flow trails and technical descents), but I can definitely see getting into it in the future as I really enjoy distance and endurance.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> In the UK, I reckon you could count the places where a gravel bike would be good on the fingers of one elbow.


I like the GCN guys because they seem pretty sensible overall and they really like gravel bikes.

Instead of gravel bikes people should think of them as comfortable, more versatile road bikes. They are far from gravel specific.


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> In the UK, I reckon you could count the places where a gravel bike would be good on the fingers of one elbow.


UK + gravel + enduro.

https://grinduro.com/scotland/

Meltdown in 3....2....1.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

VTSession said:


> No, quite the opposite.
> 
> I built a gravel bike recently from an older steel MTB hardtail. Why? I live in Vermont and we have amazing trails but those amazing trails take time to dry after the snowy winter. I've got a month or two of decent spring weather but can't get ride the trails. What to do? Explore hundreds of miles of empty, scenic and quiet dirt roads right out my front door.
> 
> ...


Why the drops bars on your MTB instead straight bars? Did they make a difference?
I understand them for the geometry of a road/cx bike, but did they work well with the geometry of the mtb bike?
Just learning...


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

2 wheels, pedal. Repeat as needed. Some bike work really good for some conditions. Lots of different conditions exist depending where you live. Owning 9 bikes? Living the dream. YRMV. My gravel bike? That's my bikepacking Karate Monkey with 29er plus tires. Whooot!


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

They are extremely dumb.

Have you ever tried to administer an IQ test on one?

I have and the results are similar to those of a fence post or brick.


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

Gravel bikes aren't entirely dumb, just the drop bars....


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I love my steel All City!! It was under 1k from Jensons 1x11 I just need to make it tubeless. Such a comfortable ride!

I would love to ride some of those never ending roads! They look so relaxing.


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

j102 said:


> Why the drops bars on your MTB instead straight bars? Did they make a difference?
> I understand them for the geometry of a road/cx bike, but did they work well with the geometry of the mtb bike?
> Just learning...


I rode that same set up with a flat mtb bar at first and it was ok. A roadie friend of mine suggested I get drop bars for comfort, climbing, hand position, etc. and he was right. Drop bars make long rides easier and more comfortable. It may be in my head but I feel like I climb better and I feel more efficient.

There's definitely plenty of people gravel grinding on flat mtb bars but I prefer drop bars.

As for geo, it's working great. The reach is more with the drop bars but I just put on a shorter stem. It's a little more relaxed which may not be as good for climbing but it's working for me.

Keep in mind I'm also a total hack who never even owned anything with a drop bar until a month ago.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

VTSession said:


> I rode that same set up with a flat mtb bar at first and it was ok. A roadie friend of mine suggested I get drop bars for comfort, climbing, hand position, etc. and he was right. Drop bars make long rides easier and more comfortable. It may be in my head but I feel like I climb better and I feel more efficient.
> 
> There's definitely plenty of people gravel grinding on flat mtb bars but I prefer drop bars.
> 
> ...


Thanks. It's interesting to hear the opinion of someone who has tried both setups. Good to know.


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## tealy (Mar 7, 2013)

okay


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

J.B. Weld said:


> Instead of gravel bikes people should think of them as comfortable, more versatile road bikes. They are far from gravel specific.


Or optimal?

I have many years of Scottish riding on roads, gravel tracks, and dirt on different bikes. Just now I ride a full-sus, hard-tail, road bike and 26'' rigid. I agree that these gravel bikes are more comfortable road bikes, that's exactly what they are, but it's still missing the point.

Road bikes as we know them developed with one purpose in mind. To be fast and efficient at covering tarmac. Other considerations, like strength, comfort, versatility etc were secondary. Roadies have always, and still do, often look down on riders of lesser bikes. They see the road bike as a pure expression of what cycling is.

Years ago a friend of mine started cycling in our group. He was recovering from a back injury so couldn't ride his road bike, he used his hardtail mountain bike. This was fine as at that time we all used mountain bikes, mostly with more road-friendly tyres, as besides the local back roads we usually explored farm tracks and gravel roads too. We would even cross the odd field to get to somewhere new.

As timer went on he would bemoan the absence of his road bike and question the dirt roads we used. As soon as he was physically able, he brought his road bike out. This single act brought an end to the gravel road adventures. If we went down a rough road he complained bitterly as though our choice of route was at fault rather than his choice of bicycle! Confined to smooth roads, we were now at the disadvantage. Over time the group transitioned onto road bikes, some stopped riding, some moved onto longer distance road rides.

For the roadie, all other types of bike represent a compromise. Speed is the one value that trumps all others and brings the most satisfaction. It is quantifiable. The road bike is pure, focused, a scalpel in a cutlery drawer. Gravel bikes appeal because they widen the ridiculously narrow range of terrain they can ride on without giving up too much of the purity of their hallowed steeds. And I'm sure they must be tickled pink about it. But let's not kid ourselves for a minute that this means gravel bikes are actually the best tool for the job.

Whether is it gravel, rock or dirt, the best bike for crossing rough terrain on is the mountain bike. Better grip, more control, more comfort and able to withstand much more abuse. While the gravel bike rider preens over the fact that his scalpel now has a thicker and stronger blade, I'm going to quietly reach into my pocket, click open the stud and whack a Leatherman Wave into the table in front of him!


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I think the guys riding gravel bikes on mountain bike trails, have serious skill! I saw one during my ride Saturday, although not the hardest of trails, no way I could ride some of those sections on my gravel bike.

There were some routes perfect for it.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

j102 said:


> Why the drops bars on your MTB instead straight bars?


Having ridden both drops and flat bars on both mtb trails and gravel roads, here's what I have found: For mountain biking that involves rocks, roots and dancing with your bike, flat or sweep bars are best. They give greater leverage and better control when the trail gets lumpy. Also, flat-bar brake levers make regular and continuous use of the brakes possible. Steep technical descents are a bear, brake-wise, with drops.

On the other hand, drop bars are excellent for sitting and pedaling for hours. The hand positions are better and practically infinite - I can work my hands around the hoods and on the top of the bar - I rarely use the drops. Braking is much less frequent and less demanding, so the lost leverage isn't so important.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Mr Pig said:


> Or optimal?
> 
> I have many years of Scottish riding on roads, gravel tracks, and dirt on different bikes. Just now I ride a full-sus, hard-tail, road bike and 26'' rigid. I agree that these gravel bikes are more comfortable road bikes, that's exactly what they are, but it's still missing the point.
> 
> ...


For you.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Mr Pig said:


> Or optimal?
> 
> I have many years of Scottish riding on roads, gravel tracks, and dirt on different bikes. Just now I ride a full-sus, hard-tail, road bike and 26'' rigid. I agree that these gravel bikes are more comfortable road bikes, that's exactly what they are, but it's still missing the point.
> 
> ...


Really good post. I enjoyed reading it, even if it reads more of a description of how road bikes are pretty lame. If my gravel bike is slower that hasn't manifested on the clock or in group rides. It's definitely faster on patchwork roads and every descent.


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## ctxcrossx (Jan 13, 2004)

Isn't it just a cyclocross bike though? I mean, how many people have a gravel and a cross bike? Is the geometry all that different? If not for the geometry, what other differences are there?

I also don't know if I buy that cross bikes are for racing and gravel bikes aren't since there are gravel races popping up all over the place. Which bike do you pick at that point?

It does seem like someone created a new bike category out of thin air just so people could drop more money.


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

ctxcrossx said:


> Isn't it just a cyclocross bike though?


No.



ctxcrossx said:


> Is the geometry all that different?


Yes.



ctxcrossx said:


> If not for the geometry, what other differences are there?


More tire clearance, slacker head tube angle, lower BB height, longer wheelbase, etc.



ctxcrossx said:


> I also don't know if I buy that cross bikes are for racing and gravel bikes aren't since there are gravel races popping up all over the place.


A cross race is very different than a gravel race.



ctxcrossx said:


> It does seem like someone created a new bike category out of thin air just so people could drop more money.


I can see why someone who doesn't even understand what a gravel bike is could think that. That doesn't make it any less ignorant.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

No. I love mine. The end.

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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Nat said:


> Both of these areas are pretty. Your guys' photos make want to explore them, although I'd want to use a Jeep or mountain bike rather than a cross bike.


How about a Jeep mountain bike?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Gasp4Air said:


> Having ridden both drops and flat bars on both mtb trails and gravel roads, here's what I have found: For mountain biking that involves rocks, roots and dancing with your bike, flat or sweep bars are best. They give greater leverage and better control when the trail gets lumpy. Also, flat-bar brake levers make regular and continuous use of the brakes possible. Steep technical descents are a bear, brake-wise, with drops.
> 
> On the other hand, drop bars are excellent for sitting and pedaling for hours. The hand positions are better and practically infinite - I can work my hands around the hoods and on the top of the bar - I rarely use the drops. Braking is much less frequent and less demanding, so the lost leverage isn't so important.


Yep. I bought a CX to commute to work on, which is about 80% road and 20% singletrack (or I can cut out early for only about 10% singletrack). So I chose a bike that would favor the majority of my ride but could still handle the singletrack. Lack of leverage, braking from the hoods (I don't have disc mounts), and toe overlap on sharp turns do make it a challenge. I have to pick my way down rough descents but it is brilliant on the smoother sections of the trail. It's only ten miles oneway so a rigid mountain bike wouldn't be too bad but I decided to go with the CX.

Edit: And yes, I would like clearance for a bit wider tire. And I need to change the drivetrain for a bit more low gear range.


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## ctxcrossx (Jan 13, 2004)

fillaroida said:


> I can see why someone who doesn't even understand what a gravel bike is could think that. That doesn't make it any less ignorant.


Kind of the point of the post. Pot, kettle, black.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> Or optimal?
> 
> I have many years of Scottish riding on roads, gravel tracks, and dirt on different bikes. Just now I ride a full-sus, hard-tail, road bike and 26'' rigid. I agree that these gravel bikes are more comfortable road bikes, that's exactly what they are, but it's still missing the point.
> 
> ...


Actually the best bike for crossing any terrain is the bike that one chooses to ride. Riding isn't about riding the perfect bike, it never has been, riding is about the experience.


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## Clayncedar (Aug 25, 2016)

Reading this, I totally get why gravel bikes exist if you access to a lot of those kind of roads and/or the financial resources to do n + 1.

In my case, I don't which is where a decent fatbike comes in. Seems like a lot more guys mock them than gravel bikes however the diversity in weather and ride surfaces where I live pretty much demand something like it. 

To each their own.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> Or optimal?


Not over every surface. I think the whole point of gravel bikes, adventure bikes, or whatever you want to call them is that they are game for just about anything. A hardtail may (or may not, depending on the surface) be more optimal on a rough dirt road but for sure isn't on the pavement ride to get there.

I saw one on a fast group ride a few weeks ago, for awhile that is. The guy on it dropped me even though I was on a pure race bike so they aren't such a big compromise on the road either.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

Where I live, it's all about single track, not that there is anything wrong with that, but all the fire roads we used to ride in races or to get get to some of the best single track trails are now nearly forgotten. We have a great trails foundation here which has built tons of single track in the last several years so you almost don't need to ride the fire roads or jeep trails.
That's where my gravel bike comes in, it is actually cool to ride those miles and miles of roads which hardly anyone rides anymore. I also take my gravel bike on the single track trails. My gravel bike has not replaced any of my bikes, I still have a road bike, xc bike, 6" travel trail/ enduro bike and a single speed hardtail and speed time on each one.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

I'm currently putting together this type of bike, just basically a cruiser. Riding the main roads is death around here (plus I'm slow) so I try to string together back streets, bike paths, fields, parking lots, whenever possible. Riding to a friend's house just 5 - 6 miles away can be interesting. 

I just got some 29 x 2.35 Schwalbe Fast ones set up tubeless on Flow Ex rims. Should roll good and resist flats.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

tealy said:


> I like the idea of gravel bikes but personally I'm not a fan of drops in the dirt.
> 
> Ain't no reason to be super-hunched when you're cruising rail trails.
> 
> Barendz4lyfe. **** maybe I'll even tilt them up for the haters.


Much more power than sitting upright.


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## paxy (Apr 6, 2012)

I've never had one speak to me, so I guess the answer would be yes


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## rad3144 (Sep 28, 2016)

I have one, I only have two bikes a full sus mtb and a gravel bike. And like many when my local trails are wet or in the depths of summer in the south when it’s too hot and humid to enjoy the trails I can take this out for a spin, hit gravel, bike paths, pavement. It’s comfortable and fun to ride, I have no plans to road ride (like a roadie) but if I want to I can. It’s a neat way to explore and see parts of your area you’ve never seen before. Yes sometimes it can get a little choppy on worn out washed out gravel roads but the majority of it is fine, you also learn to choose “lines” like you do on mtb. For me having something that will do any of the types of riding that aren’t mtb is more important than being the best for one thing. 


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I'm surprised at all the negative posts. The main reason I ended up with a gravel bike, was for fitness. That recommendation came from this forum, I first bought a flat bar road bike, a size too small, and meh! Then I got a Kona Jake of CL in great shape and loved it. Sold it and got the All City MM. 

I can't get to the trails as often as I would like, so having alternate bikes to ride around my house, has helped me get in better shape. I probably end up with 50/50 between my gravel bike and my trail bike, at the end of the year. If I only rode MTB on Sat/Sun, there is no way I could have improved my fitness. 

Of course, now I've added night riding to my list, and I can do both at night around here.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

A lot of the photos I see of "gravel grinding" looks like mountain biking on a unimproved dirt roads or Jeep trail.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Nat said:


> A lot of the photos I see of "gravel grinding" looks like mountain biking on a unimproved dirt roads or Jeep trail.


What does that say about those that say a mountain bike is the only way to do it?


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

first off, i prefer a steel bike to gravel...how do you keep all of the stones in the frame shape? I think it would disintegrate on the first bump..........:skep::thumbsup:

I have a gravel grinder...my Surly Krampus
I have a trail grinder....my Surly Krampus
I have a pavement grinder...my Surly Krampus
I have a skatepark grinder...my Surly Krampus

I love riding gravel roads, and everything else....except roads with automobile traffic...that sux

now back to your regularly scheduled thread


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

life behind bars said:


> What does that say about those that say a mountain bike is the only way to do it?


Hmmmmm...


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

A gravel bike used only for gravel is silly to me. I like the versatility. Mine has been a gravel bike, road bike, drop bar xc bike, commuter, grocery-getter, kid hauler...you get the point.


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

sXeXBMXer said:


> first off, i prefer a steel bike to gravel...how do you keep all of the stones in the frame shape?


What about a mountain bike? rft:


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## MikeDee (Nov 17, 2004)

I've got an old Bruce Gordon touring bike that I use for gravel riding with 700x47 tires. It's great for gravel and smooths out bumpy pavement too. I absolutely hate flat bars for this type of riding. Rode my hardtail mountain bike with slick tires on a ride that I do with the Bruce Gordon and did not like the ride, mainly due to the flat bars. Long rides with pavement suck on a mountain bike. Most of my gravel rides include pavement as well.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

MikeDee said:


> I've got an old Bruce Gordon touring bike that I use for gravel riding with 700x37 tires. It's great for gravel and smooths out bumpy pavement too. I absolutely hate flat bars for this type of riding. Rode my hardtail mountain bike with slick tires on a ride that I do with the Bruce Gordon and did not like the ride, mainly due to the flat bars. Long rides with pavement suck on a mountain bike. Most of my gravel rides include pavement as well.


Old sport tourers make awesome gravel bikes once you get the brakes sorted. A lot of the 27" wheeled bikes can be had dirt cheap and with some creative chops (Paul's brakes and crimped chainstays) make gravel done cheap. You can even get 650b's on a bunch of them.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Nat said:


> A lot of the photos I see of "gravel grinding" looks like mountain biking on a unimproved dirt roads or Jeep trail.


A lot of them are, for me the appeal of a gravel bike is that it would also be a fun bike to cover the pavement miles that are necessary to get to them and back home again.



ryguy79 said:


> A gravel bike used only for gravel is silly to me. I like the versatility. Mine has been a gravel bike, road bike, drop bar xc bike, commuter, grocery-getter, kid hauler...you get the point.


^exactly!


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

ryguy79 said:


> What about a mountain bike? rft:


A mountain bike with hybrid tires can do everything a gravel bike can and more, so yes I don't get buying a dedicated gravel bike if you can simply buy gravel/hybrid tires for like $30 each, or just get a skinny wheelset for them and switch wheelsets in a few minutes at a time. As I mentioned previously the only benefit I see in Gravel is the weight reduction from going rigid; anything else is easily duplicated from the most lowly mountain bike.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

richj8990 said:


> anything else is easily duplicated from the most lowly mountain bike.


Except duplicate the position on the bike and the almost infinite hand position of drop bars without resorting to wonky and hideous looking stem solutions. (bring on the hate from the drop bar mtb guys)


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

richj8990 said:


> A mountain bike with hybrid tires can do everything a gravel bike can and more, so yes I don't get buying a dedicated gravel bike if you can simply buy gravel/hybrid tires for like $30 each, or just get a skinny wheelset for them and switch wheelsets in a few minutes at a time. As I mentioned previously the only benefit I see in Gravel is the weight reduction from going rigid; anything else is easily duplicated from the most lowly mountain bike.


Some people enjoy nice things.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> A lot of them are, for me the appeal of a gravel bike is that it would also be a fun bike to cover the pavement miles that are necessary to get to them and back home again.!


Yes.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

jcd46 said:


> I'm surprised at all the negative posts. The main reason I ended up with a gravel bike, was for fitness. That recommendation came from this forum, I first bought a flat bar road bike, a size too small, and meh! Then I got a Kona Jake of CL in great shape and loved it. Sold it and got the All City MM.
> 
> I can't get to the trails as often as I would like, so having alternate bikes to ride around my house, has helped me get in better shape. I probably end up with 50/50 between my gravel bike and my trail bike, at the end of the year. If I only rode MTB on Sat/Sun, there is no way I could have improved my fitness.
> 
> Of course, now I've added night riding to my list, and I can do both at night around here.


Well but you are in a pretty urban area too. I'm lucky that I can ride out of my garage and eight minutes later I'm on dirt. I'm right on the edge of some county wilderness areas. So for your situation a more urban bike is fine, for me, I don't really prefer road/gravel biking although I do road bike at night in the winter. With a mountain bike (OK with a BSO). And it does just fine. People ride mountain bikes on pavement/gravel all the time; what is the advantage of a gravel bike over a 30-35 lb mountain bike? Speed?


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

richj8990 said:


> A mountain bike with hybrid tires can do everything a gravel bike can and more, so yes I don't get buying a dedicated gravel bike if you can simply buy gravel/hybrid tires for like $30 each, or just get a skinny wheelset for them and switch wheelsets in a few minutes at a time. As I mentioned previously the only benefit I see in Gravel is the weight reduction from going rigid; anything else is easily duplicated from the most lowly mountain bike.


To me, that would be kind of a pain. In my personal case, getting out for a ride its not easy, so I have to take advantage of every second that involves getting ready and out the door. That's why I have "sets" of everything, so I can just grab a bike, and either loaded it on my rack, or roll out the door if using my gravel bike.

Also, I enjoy the change of pace with drop bars, they are very comfortable to me, and as mentioned, you have several ways to move your hands.


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

richj8990 said:


> A mountain bike with hybrid tires can do everything a gravel bike can and more,


That is simply not true, although understandable based on your lack of experience.



richj8990 said:


> As I mentioned previously the only benefit I see in Gravel is the weight reduction from going rigid; anything else is easily duplicated from the most lowly mountain bike.


This is also false.

At least you're consistent though.


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

richj8990 said:


> A mountain bike with hybrid tires can do everything a gravel bike can and more, so yes I don't get buying a dedicated gravel bike if you can simply buy gravel/hybrid tires for like $30 each, or just get a skinny wheelset for them and switch wheelsets in a few minutes at a time. As I mentioned previously the only benefit I see in Gravel is the weight reduction from going rigid; anything else is easily duplicated from the most lowly mountain bike.


The joke

Your head

ps - Nevermind that you're wrong. I tried that. I did a lenghty benefit road ride on my 29er hardtail a few years ago, before I got my gravel bike. Put some 35mm tires on and went after it. Lack of hand positions got old quickly. Ran out of gear on anything with even the slightest downhill grade. Not very aero, but that didn't matter a whole lot without bigger chainrings. My flat pavement cruising speed on my gravel bike is nearly as fast as I would spin out on the 29er.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

richj8990 said:


> Well but you are in a pretty urban area too. I'm lucky that I can ride out of my garage and eight minutes later I'm on dirt. I'm right on the edge of some county wilderness areas. So for your situation a more urban bike is fine, for me, I don't really prefer road/gravel biking although I do road bike at night in the winter. With a mountain bike (OK with a BSO). And it does just fine. People ride mountain bikes on pavement/gravel all the time; what is the advantage of a gravel bike over a 30-35 lb mountain bike? Speed?


Like everything else in this sport, it boils down to personal preference. I ride all my bikes, of course not equally but they do give you different dimensions, and riding styles. For instance taking my rigid out on trails, that changes everything, or riding at night. The beautiful thing about cycling, is your options are almost unlimited.

Next thing on my bucket list is some sort of bikepacking/credit card touring thing, and I can use my gravel bike or my rigid 29er.

I'm lucky that I have tons of horse trails in Walnut/Diamond Bar. The road is a bit scary, but I tried to avoid it most of the time. We do have bike lanes, and you see a lot of people riding all kinds of bikes.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> Some people enjoy nice things.


It might be time for MFGB video?


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> Some people enjoy nice things.


I think that's what it really is. It's just a difference in personality. Some people can get by on a $10 Timex watch, others must have a $5000 Rolex. I love quality too if it actually serves a purpose that's worth its money. Quality for the sake of purpose, not for the sake of trying to fulfill some subconscious need for completeness via material objects. Oddly enough, some people have called me a perfectionist; little do they know how practical and realistic I am about certain things. I really don't think INTJ's are perfectionists; INTP's seem way more perfectionistic. I've seen them arguing for hours about how many atoms fit on the head of a pin. My personality type could never stand for that. I think the sterotype that INTJ's are perfectionistic probably came from a Psychologist Feeler type that got coldly scorched with laser-like criticism from an INTJ, and misinterpreted it as being a critical perfectionistic trait.

As far as quality is concerned, it may be stereotypical to buy a BMW but you get a lot for the money, and you get quality. I even try to look at other cars, Porsche, Audi, Infinity, etc., and realize what you get for a BMW, used or new, is more for the money than most other cars. Compare that with something like a Hummer or Cadillac Escalade, totally overpriced, and pseudo quality. Quality comes from within something, not on its price tag. Same for bikes. Some have quality at a decent price, but just because a bike is expensive doesn't mean it can proportionally do more per dollar than a cheaper bike. You just cannot argue that a $1500 gravel bike can do 10 times more than a $150 BSO on gravel.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

richj8990 said:


> You just cannot argue that a $1500 gravel bike can do 10 times more than a $150 BSO on gravel.


Possibly, but you cannot argue that the bso is better either. Or that your example beemer (which I wouldn't own on a dare) is 10x's better than a Passat.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

ALimon said:


> It might be time for MFGB video?


That would be MF awesome!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

richj8990 said:


> I think that's what it really is. It's just a difference in personality. Some people can get by on a $10 Timex watch, others must have a $5000 Rolex.


That's jewelry, I don't wear jewelry but it's fine by me if some people enjoy it. A $10 timex performs the same as a $5,000 rolex, both will get you to work on time but a $150 bso doesn't perform the same as a quality well designed bike and unfortunately those cost a bit more than $150. It all depends on what you want out of your equipment and for me performance = fun and I like fun.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

richj8990 said:


> I think that's what it really is. It's just a difference in personality. Some people can get by on a $10 Timex watch, others must have a $5000 Rolex. I love quality too if it actually serves a purpose that's worth its money. Quality for the sake of purpose, not for the sake of trying to fulfill some subconscious need for completeness via material objects. Oddly enough, some people have called me a perfectionist; little do they know how practical and realistic I am about certain things. I really don't think INTJ's are perfectionists; INTP's seem way more perfectionistic. I've seen them arguing for hours about how many atoms fit on the head of a pin. My personality type could never stand for that. I think the sterotype that INTJ's are perfectionistic probably came from a Psychologist Feeler type that got coldly scorched with laser-like criticism from an INTJ, and misinterpreted it as being a critical perfectionistic trait.
> 
> As far as quality is concerned, it may be stereotypical to buy a BMW but you get a lot for the money, and you get quality. I even try to look at other cars, Porsche, Audi, Infinity, etc., and realize what you get for a BMW, used or new, is more for the money than most other cars. Compare that with something like a Hummer or Cadillac Escalade, totally overpriced, and pseudo quality. Quality comes from within something, not on its price tag. Same for bikes. Some have quality at a decent price, but just because a bike is expensive doesn't mean it can proportionally do more per dollar than a cheaper bike. You just cannot argue that a $1500 gravel bike can do 10 times more than a $150 BSO on gravel.


When I think of quality, BMW isn't in that subject anymore. I was a longtime BMW enthusiast, but IMO BMW doesn't have the quality builds they once had. I think they've just gotten too big. They're just pumping out way too many cars these days to meet Necessary quality control. I switched to Porsche, the quality is top notch, I guess that's what you get from a manufacturer that makes less than 250k cars per year.

Just like my bikes, I only buy quality. Pointless to buy junk.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

J.B. Weld said:


> Some people enjoy nice things.


And you don't have to spend thousands either, if you are smart and patient about it.


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

Definitely.

Gotta agree with Paxy.
I've never heard one talk.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

jcd46 said:


> And you don't have to spend thousands either, if you are smart and patient about it.


This.

I bought a 27.5er rigid QR fork and a set of drop bars. Then added a set of disc road wheels and 29x2.0" tires together with my first Chinese carbon HT. Old set of road bike shift/brake levers.

Poof. Poor man's gravel bike for my wife. 17lbs.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

scottzg said:


> Really good post. I enjoyed reading it, even if it reads more of a description of how road bikes are pretty lame.


No, that's not what I mean. I like my road bike, it's whizzy, and it covers more miles than any other bike I have. What I am saying it that gravel bikes only make sense for a very specific kind of off-road riding, smooth gravel roads. I guess I would say that if you can drive a car on it at speed then a gravel bike is a good choice.

In the UK there are very few roads like that, hardly any probably, and as soon as the track starts getting rougher a mountain bike is going to be better. Sure, you can take a gravel bike down any track or trail and have fun but that's far from the same thing as it being the best tool for the job. People used to ride down-hill on rigid bikes with skinny tyres, narrow bars and seat up in the air. Does that mean those bikes were are effective as a modern down-hill or enduro bike? Hardly.

Gravel bikes are the same thing. Saying 'I have a gravel bike and love it' means nothing. People loved their nineties endo-machines but that doesn't make them better than a modern mountain bike. Riders back then didn't have a choice though...


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## Sideknob (Jul 14, 2005)

Wanting E-Gravel Bike.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Sideknob said:


> Wanting E-Gravel Bike.


To Drag Race it?


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

Mr Pig said:


> People loved their nineties endo-machines but that doesn't make them better than a modern mountain bike.


The love is immaterial, there's almost always some dude on a raleigh or rudge or some such crusty old bike that can hand you your ass.

And that bike might even be from the *eighteen* nineties.
How embarrassing!


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Mr Pig said:


> I guess I would say that if you can drive a car on it at speed then a gravel bike is a good choice.


You know what, Pig? I really like that.

That's about the best description of the purpose of a gravel bike that I've seen yet.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> No, that's not what I mean. I like my road bike, it's whizzy, and it covers more miles than any other bike I have.


I don't know what kind of road bike you have but there's a good chance that some modern gravel bikes are even whizzier. And more comfy. For the average rider I doubt there's any penalty on the pavement compared to their traditional road bike.


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> I don't know what kind of road bike you have but there's a good chance that some modern gravel bikes are even whizzier. And more comfy. For the average rider I doubt there's any penalty on the pavement compared to their traditional road bike.


Lower pressure, lower rolling resistance, stiffer BB, stiffer front end, aero rims, etc. mean my gravel bike is whizzier than my old road bike as well as my old cross bike. In particular it slays descents on the shitty pavement around here better than my road bike that was running 23s.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

J.B. Weld said:


> I don't know what kind of road bike you have but there's a good chance that some modern gravel bikes are even whizzier. And more comfy. For the average rider I doubt there's any penalty on the pavement compared to their traditional road bike.


I'd think that the only real penalty would be rolling resistance between road and dirt tires.

In my area, we have scadzillions of miles of gated logging roads that would be a great option to escape the texting drivers on the regular roads.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

All this gravel bike talk made me go test ride one. Well for **** sakes now I want one.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

ALimon said:


> All this gravel bike talk made me go test ride one. Well for **** sakes now I want one.


What did you test?


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## EricTheDood (Sep 22, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> For the average rider I doubt there's any penalty on the pavement compared to their traditional road bike.


No penalty going from a 23-28mm slick to a 35-38mm knobby? How do you figure?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

EricTheDood said:


> No penalty going from a 23-28mm slick to a 35-38mm knobby? How do you figure?


For one thing it's easy to put a ~25mm tire on a gravel bike but not so much putting a 40c tire on a road bike. Also a wider tire @ lower pressure can be faster (and more comfortable) on rough pavement than a skinny one, pros don't even use 23's anymore. Considering the watts the average cyclist produces a 25 vs. 40c tire makes very little difference in speed.

I do love a high end pure race bike but some of these new "gravel" bikes are very fast machines, probably faster than the old road bikes they're replacing.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

ALimon said:


> All this gravel bike talk made me go test ride one. Well for **** sakes now I want one.


Go for it. Or get a Cyclocross bike. Whatever works for your area. Nothing wrong with one more bike if you can afford it.


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

EricTheDood said:


> No penalty going from a 23-28mm slick to a 35-38mm knobby? How do you figure?


Why do you assume you need a 35-38mm knobby tire to ride gravel?


----------



## MikeDee (Nov 17, 2004)

fillaroida said:


> Why do you assume you need a 35-38mm knobby tire to ride gravel?


What do you use? What gearing do you have?


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

MikeDee said:


> What do you use? What gearing do you have?


My every day tires are WTB Exposures (32c). I also have a set of Maxxis Ramblers (40c) for chunkier rides. Gearing is 50/34, 11-32.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

jcd46 said:


> What did you test?


Specialized Diverge


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

ALimon said:


> Specialized Diverge


Check out the Breezer Radar line @ Performance Bike.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

ALimon said:


> Specialized Diverge


Not sure if you were looking at Carbon or Alloy, but I just say steel rocks!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

jcd46 said:


> Not sure if you were looking at Carbon or Alloy, but I just say steel rocks!


...and rolls...over everything!!!


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

jcd46 said:


> Not sure if you were looking at Carbon or Alloy, but I just say steel rocks!


It was alloy. I think it was about 1500. Sweet ride.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

ALimon said:


> All this gravel bike talk made me go test ride one. Well for **** sakes now I want one.


I mentioned it before, but it's more similar to road vs mtb'ing. I love it myself, but it's not for everyone.


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

Gravel bikes are a lot like fat bikes as in certain parts of the country have terrain they are appropriate for. Dirt roads near me are great for it and they are endless but that is not the case is many places.


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## octavius (Sep 26, 2008)

for me, the 'what type of bike' issue is fancinating. on one hand, you have folk that want a garage full of bikes that are all tailored to every facet of riding.

a venn diagram of a road bike, a gravel bike, a fat bike, a full sus, a hard tail, a rigid singlespeed, a pub bike etc... 

and then the other hand is one bike that sits at the junction of all of those. it does some things amazing, is acceptable in other areas, with a bit tinkering is ok at this or that. and isnt great at x. 

thinking about all this always come back to that horribly unfashionable and unweidly term - ATB - an all terrian bicycle. which sort of best captures what it was like to ride a bike as a kid. i just want be able to go anywhere i please and im aware my mood or motivation might well change when im on the bike which isnt a problem on an ATB. 

i think its great that the choices for anyone getting involved in cycling are so wide but in my ongoing love affair with cycling i hate to be out, have an brainwave to head somewhere, look down and realise im on the wrong bike.


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

Crankout said:


> I mentioned it before, but it's more similar to road vs mtb'ing.


???????

For me, it's similar to mountain biking, then it's similar to road riding, then it's similar to mountain biking, then it's similar road riding. All within the space of minutes.

Definitely not more similar to road.


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

Love those double track jeep roads. Whereabouts?


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

^^ That looks like a blast!


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Ex-pro roadie Dave Zabriskie doesn't think it's dumb...he just launched a gravel bike tour venture here in So Cal for long mixed surface riding. Lotsa buff fire road and single track out here. (https://www.dznuthouse.com)

I'm biting the bullet ($150/day demo charge!) and riding one of his fleet that he houses at the LBS this weekend, a 3T Exploro. Spec is 1x11, 44 chainring, 10-42 cassette, 650bx47c. Used to see DZ a lot on an Open Cycles HT, but the 3T Exploro is his go-to now it seems.

More and more I'm doing longer mixed surface on my HT vs. traditional So Cal climb-descend. I throw on a set of wheels with 1.8 Renegades and lock out my fork for the mixed stuff. But I want to see if I'd enjoy the roadie-like experience even more, and thus ride more and for longer.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

After test riding a gravel bike and watching that video I couldn’t help but wonder if they made a hybrid road bike/mtb bar. So I googled it and found these. Not bad.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Personally, I would take drop bars over those. This year I'm doing some upgrades to my gravel bike, and getting some flared bars, the drops are kind of "deep" on my bike, I'm also killing the white bar tape! Looks sharp but man, it turns nasty! 

For now I'm taking it to a 30mile charity ride next weekend. Its a beach ride so its all flat and easy stuff, but its a fun ride.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

octavius said:


> thinking about all this always come back to that horribly unfashionable and unweidly term - ATB - an all terrian bicycle. which sort of best captures what it was like to ride a bike as a kid. i just want be able to go anywhere i please and im aware my mood or motivation might well change when im on the bike which isnt a problem on an ATB.


definitely, and ATB is not really unwieldy/fashionable to me...it is sort of what I always expected out of a bike b/c I have always been poor, or at least "disposable income challenged"

...and for me, as a kid, it was my BMX...Mongoose Supergoose...got ridden everywhere. I never looked down and second guessed the bike I was on

now it is my Krampus...the only thing I will not know if it works on is downhill...or bike park downhill...cause I don't plan on riding that style. It did sail down a pretty steep and long gravel road in the Lake Placid area, and worked great on that.

ATB all the way!


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

jcd46 said:


> Personally, I would take drop bars over those. This year I'm doing some upgrades to my gravel bike, and getting some flared bars, the drops are kind of "deep" on my bike, I'm also killing the white bar tape! Looks sharp but man, it turns nasty!
> 
> For now I'm taking it to a 30mile charity ride next weekend. Its a beach ride so its all flat and easy stuff, but its a fun ride.


I agree. Adding flared bars to road bike bars would be perfect.


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

ALimon said:


> I agree. Adding flared bars to road bike bars would be perfect.


"Flared bars" are simply "road bike" bars with a bigger drop flare. The extra width gives you better control in the drops off-road.

See: Easton EC70 AX



VTSession said:


> Whereabouts?


Northern California


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

fillaroida said:


> ???????
> 
> For me, it's similar to mountain biking, then it's similar to road riding, then it's similar to mountain biking, then it's similar road riding. All within the space of minutes.
> 
> Definitely not more similar to road.


I was thinking more along the lines of bike geometry, set up and one's position on it. The handling part on those rutty roads certainly requires mountain bike agility but my mountain bike is much more forgiving and manageable than my gravel bike. Yet, I absolutely love it. Thanks for the vid share!


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I've been eyeing these out:

Salsa Cowchipper Drop Bar | Jenson USA


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

fillaroida said:


> ???????
> 
> For me, it's similar to mountain biking, then it's similar to road riding, then it's similar to mountain biking, then it's similar road riding. All within the space of minutes.
> 
> Definitely not more similar to road.


yep.

not shown much are the gravel paths, paved paths, and roads also included in the same ride.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

Sweet bunch of linked up trails, paths and jeep roads. Wish I had that near my town. But where were the shenanigans? Didn't notice a single one.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Gasp4Air said:


> Sweet bunch of linked up trails, paths and jeep roads. Wish I had that near my town. But where were the shenanigans? Didn't notice a single one.


Breaking and entering?


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

Gasp4Air said:


> But where were the shenanigans? Didn't notice a single one.


Sadly, it's the singletrack portion.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

fillaroida said:


> Definitely not more similar to road.


Well, it ain't very like proper off road either is it? Those tracks are pretty smooth and dry. In Scotland you'll get sections very like that but they generally don't last long before you hit a chunky section made of much larger stones or washed out bits or a boggy stretch. You could take a 'road' bike down them but you're not going to enjoy it and you might get stuck, come off or buckle a wheel.

And of course if it rains, all bets are off.

Even that ride you've posted, yes you can clearly do it on that bike but a lightweight hard-tail is going to be better suited. I can see how teetering along on a 'road' bike might be fun in a slightly masochistic way, but again, it does not mean that such a machine is the best tool for the job.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> Even that ride you've posted, yes you can clearly do it on that bike but a lightweight hard-tail is going to be better suited.


Probably true for the off road sections but is a mountain bike also better suited for pavement?


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

J.B. Weld said:


> Probably true for the off road sections but is a mountain bike also better suited for pavement?


A 29er with the right tyres would be ok on the road. True, not as good as the gravel/road bike but overall I'd say the compromises would be better. The wide bars, suspension fork and better tyres are going to give you much more confidence and control off road. Plus, it'll still work on a dirt trail if it rains! Friend of mine ran 700c wheels and skinny tyres on his hardtail for road use, probably quite similar in grip to a gravel bike. When we had to cross wet fields it did not work well. I got across them, he got stuck.

I think it depends on the exact balance of your riding. If you're doing a lot of road miles but want to link up on some good gravel roads I can see how these bikes make a lot of sense. Or if you have miles of dry, smooth gravel roads like you have in the States. I guess the people who I would consider silly are the ones who buy these bikes when most of their riding is off road, especially natural trails or single track.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

If you're not a road racer, then why wouldn't you get a bike that offers more versatility and ride comfort vs. the traditional road bike?


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> Well, it ain't very like proper off road either is it?.


What is "proper off road"?



Mr Pig said:


> Those tracks are pretty smooth and dry.


In many cases video fails to fully convey actual trail conditions. For instance, in that video, the singletrack portion is dry and pretty loose because we haven't had significant precip in a while. Smooth? Relative to some of the chunky stuff locally? Yes. It still has enough lumpiness to make it interesting.

Add in relatively narrow, slick tires and it gets more challenging to stay upright.



Mr Pig said:


> Even that ride you've posted, yes you can clearly do it on that bike but a lightweight hard-tail is going to be better suited.


You seem to really be hung up on your "better suited" angle.

Trail conditions, texture and grade vary a great deal on the rides that I do. On a typical MTB ride a road bike would be better suited for parts, an XC race HT would be better suited for parts, the current MTB under me is better suited for parts, and a DH bike would be better suited for parts.

If "better suited" includes shorter elapsed time, i.e. more efficient, then "that ride that I posted" is a prime example for the folks who count the seconds.



Mr Pig said:


> ...very limited in what they can do off road too.


This is still ridiculous.



Mr Pig said:


> I can see how teetering along on a 'road' bike might be fun in a slightly masochistic way, but again, it does not mean that such a machine is the best tool for the job.


You continue to miss the point. One of the great things about "gravel" bikes is that they can make some proper off road trails, that used to be interesting, more fun.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> A 29er with the right tyres would be ok on the road. True, not as good as the gravel/road bike but overall I'd say the compromises would be better.


That's sort of my point, any bike will be a compromise on some parts of a ride that involves multi-surfaces and everyone has different preferences and priorities. For a lot of people a gravel bike is the best compromise for rides that include a mix of pavement and smoothish dirt roads, others who prioritize comfort and extra control on the rough sections might prefer a mtb.


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## GuzziBen (May 18, 2015)

I live in Minnesota, where there is a "gravel season" when the trails are in between winter and summer flavors- in other words, mud better left undisturbed until the trails firm up. 
(I know someone will shout about how much fun it is to ride in the mud, but these are well-tended trails that get a lot of use)
You can ride gravel on anything- that's part of the appeal. If you've spent a morning on a farm road bucking a 15-20mph headwind, drop bars may seem appealing. If the road gets loose, a lower pressure tire is nice. 
There are lots of options to "ride gravel"- I've used my fat bike a few times, as well as a bike I built up with a CX carbon frame, disc brakes, a Lauf fork and 40c tires.
I'm not a "racer", but there are gravel races- and if you want to win, (or just go faster) you might want a "gravel bike".


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

d365 said:


> If you're not a road racer, then why wouldn't you get a bike that offers more versatility and ride comfort vs. the traditional road bike?


Maybe if you wanted to look like a really cool, badass road racer.

Appearance is everything, you know.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Curveball said:


> Maybe if you wanted to look like a really cool, badass road racer.
> 
> Appearance is everything, you know.


Then I'm screwed, I ride my gravel bike with Chesters and 510s


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## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

Are gravel bike dumb ?


They used to be called Cross bikes.

Bike industry's marketing department are making miracles by convincing everyone that they need new bikes , that new wheel size, 197 instead or 177 , etc....

It's not the industry that's dumb.....


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

fokof said:


> They used to be called Cross bikes.


Having ridden a cross bike for 20+ years I can tell you that gravel bikes is different. Cross bike ≠ gravel bike.



fokof said:


> It's not the industry that's dumb.....


Before calling informed folks "dumb," you might want to look in the mirror.


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

fokof said:


> It's not the industry that's dumb.....


It's too bad this joke is so hard to understand.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

fokof said:


> Are gravel bike dumb ?
> 
> They used to be called Cross bikes.
> 
> ...


Different critters.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

fillaroida said:


> Having ridden a cross bike for 20+ years I can tell you that gravel bikes is different. Cross bike ≠ gravel bike.


What is the difference?


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> What is the difference?


It's like deja vu all over again...

http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/gravel-bikes-dumb-1076876.html#post13644944


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

fillaroida said:


> It's like deja vu all over again...


Sorry, but it's getting little silly don't you think? I am supposed to believe these bikes are totally different because...the geometry is slightly different and one has rack mounts? That's it?


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## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

fillaroida said:


> Having ridden a cross bike for 20+ years I can tell you that gravel bikes is different. Cross bike ≠ gravel bike.


I see : it's the disk brakes !!!!!



fillaroida said:


> Before calling informed folks "dumb," you might want to look in the mirror.


Yeah , you're right ..... I didn't see that having disk brakes instead of canti make it a completely different bike.

damn , I'm so dumb !


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> Sorry, but it's getting little silly don't you think? I am supposed to believe these bikes are totally different because...the geometry is slightly different and one has rack mounts? That's it?


If you read my previous post you would understand there is more to it than that.

Which part did you find confusing?


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

fokof said:


> I see : it's the disk brakes !!!!!


Nope. There's more to it than discs.



fokof said:


> damn , I'm so dumb !


We agree!


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## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

fillaroida said:


> Nope. There's more to it than discs.


What exactly ?

42mm instead of 38mm tires ?

I have to ask since I don't understand anything from the bike industry.....


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

The density of some of you is perplexing. If you don't like em fine but don't play the savant.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

life behind bars said:


> The density of some of you is perplexing. If you don't like em fine but don't play the savant.


No ****! Ride whatever the fek you think its best for your application, at the end of the day everyone is having fun on whatever freaking bike they are on.


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## MikeDee (Nov 17, 2004)

Mr Pig said:


> What is the difference?


Room for a bit wider tires (and that varies among manufacturers) and a slacker head angle. The Ritchey Swiss Cross (a cyclocross bike) has room for 38's whereas most gravel bikes are in the low 40's. Not a whole lot of difference really. They both usually come with road bike gearing. Then there are so-called Monstercross bikes which loosely defined is a rigid drop bar bike with room for 45's. Then you have your drop bar mountain bike conversions (rigid or even hardtail).


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

fokof said:


> What exactly ?


In my case, gravel vs. cross:

Slacker head tube angle, longer stays, longer wheel base, lower BB, shorter stack and much better tire clearance.



fokof said:


> I have to ask since I don't understand anything from the bike industry.....


You said it, not me.


----------



## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

fillaroida said:


> In my case, gravel vs. cross:
> 
> Slacker head tube angle, longer stays, longer wheel base, lower BB, shorter stack and much better tire clearance.


So if I understand correctly , a bike that has different angles or a different tube length in the design or construction should be marketed under a different name/category ?

OK , now I get it , thanx !


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

fokof said:


> So if I understand correctly , a bike that has different angles or a different tube length in the design or construction should be marketed under a different name/category ?


Those are also key differences between, XC/ Enduro/DH mountain bikes and touring/ road racing/time trial/Tri bikes - so yeah, there's a good reason why gravel bikes are marketed differently than cross bikes. They ride differently.

"They used to be called Cross bikes" is still really clueless. Maybe some day you'll get it.


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## Sideknob (Jul 14, 2005)

Gravel bikes aren't mountain bikes.


IMO....


----------



## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> Sorry, but it's getting little silly don't you think? I am supposed to believe these bikes are totally different because...the geometry is slightly different and one has rack mounts? That's it?


Gravel bikes are much better than hybrid bikes because the gravel tire tread is a 'proprietary' advanced design that utilizes advanced PhD level quantum physics to roll over gravel pebbles an amazing 5% better than hybrid tires. It took decades of research and billions of dollars of money to come up with this special tire that costs more than a hybrid tire. So you should be grateful and just pony up the money for a more expensive special bike and tire. After all, the industry did all of this for you, you need to repay them in kind.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Sideknob said:


> Gravel bikes aren't mountain bikes.
> 
> IMO....


I agree. But then I get confused when I ride my CX on mountain bike trails. Am I mountain biking? Cyclocrossing? I don't think I'm doing either of these, just riding a CX on mountain bike trails, I guess. But if I ride it on the road (or a paved path), I'm not cyclocrossing either, I'm road biking. Gravel bikes (and cyclocross bikes) are still road bikes.

I rode my CX on multiple surfaces today, paved trail, singletrack, and squirrel. I didn't enjoy that last one.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Has anyone claimed that gravel bikes are totally different than cyclocross bikes? Or that they're mountain bikes?


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

If I WANT a Gravel bike, does that make me a victim of advertising?

Maybe I WANT a different experience? 

My hard earned cash, and I want to explore as much as I can, when I can, and WHILE I can. Marketing has nothing to do why I buy a whatever kind of bike I want.


----------



## MikeDee (Nov 17, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> Has anyone claimed that gravel bikes are totally different than cyclocross bikes? Or that they're mountain bikes?


Uh, fillaroida did in post #152 for the first question. He also called some people stupid for suggesting otherwise.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

Gravel bikes and Cyclocross bikes are great (IMHO) for smooth terrain, smooth gravel roads, and paved roads. They are fast and comfortable.
But if I am hitting the trails, bumpy terrain with rocks, roots, etc., I rather use my MTB.
Any bike a person rides will be fun. As long as you are riding and enjoying the outdoors, you are good in my book. But I also look at efficiency and safety. 
I think a MTB in bumpy terrain, with rocks, roots, etc., will be faster, more efficient and safer. 
On the other hand, a person can use a MTB in the street, on paved roads. It works well. But we have to admit that a road bike or a Cyclocross (for example) will be more efficient on it. 
Nobody is saying that one type (or the other) doesn’t work. Just that there are bikes/tools designed to work better for each terrain. IMHO.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

MikeDee said:


> Uh, fillaroida did in post #152 for the first question.


um, not really



fillaroida said:


> Having ridden a cross bike for 20+ years I can tell you that gravel bikes is different. Cross bike ≠ gravel bike.


They are different, but not totally different. I thought that was a given but I guess somehow it isn't.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Riding mine Sunday...DirtBag100.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## RonSonic (Jan 8, 2005)

Mr Pig said:


> What is the difference?


Sorta like the diff between a trail bike and XC.

Cyclocross is racing so regulation <35mm tires, racy somewhat twitchy angles, higher BB, shorter HT and stays. A decent gravel bike really will ride much more comfortably over the same buzzy, bumpy crap, even with the same tires. It may also be impossible to shoulder with a sloping top tube.

When my old Redline frame cracked and I realized I really wasn't going to be racing again I transferred everything to a nice comfy steel frame and never looked back. I lost like a couple of miles per hour but consider it a fair trade.

Like trail vs XC bikes you can really do either with either, just each is more suited to its own thing.

The only thing dumb about gravel bikes is going broke and crazy following the marketing.


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

MikeDee said:


> Uh, fillaroida did in post #152 for the first question. He also called some people stupid for suggesting otherwise.


You're struggling with the truth. Again.


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## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

fillaroida said:


> "They used to be called Cross bikes" is still really clueless. Maybe some day you'll get it.


Here's the numbers for Trek 
You're right , the difference in geometry is pretty radical.

So radical that they needed to create another segment.

Thanx for making me see the light ....... finally


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

fokof said:


> Here's the numbers for Trek
> You're right , the difference in geometry is pretty radical.
> 
> So radical that they needed to create another segment.
> ...


So don't take part. Pretty simple isn't it?


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

fillaroida said:


> That's the thing though. Even if you can cram fat tires into your cross frame, like I did, you have practically no clearance. Which makes a difference.
> 
> Then there are the geometry differences, which change the handling, body position, clearance, etc.


something like this:









although the GT seemed to have plenty of clearance for 45's. you're right about geometry and such though--my GT was designed more for 'cross racing with its tall gearing and racy geometry.

no bike packing on the GT either without a few modifications.


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

fokof said:


> Thanx for making me see the light ....... finally


You're welcome!

Always happy to make teaching moments like this happen. Hopefully you won't make the same mistakes again. At least on this topic.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

Does it really matter what category gravel bikes fall into? Apparently it does. Pick a bike and be a dick about it.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

VTSession said:


> No, quite the opposite.
> 
> I built a gravel bike recently from an older steel MTB hardtail. Why? I live in Vermont and we have amazing trails but those amazing trails take time to dry after the snowy winter. I've got a month or two of decent spring weather but can't get ride the trails. What to do? Explore hundreds of miles of empty, scenic and quiet dirt roads right out my front door.
> 
> ...


Well done

Well said


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

jcd46 said:


> If I WANT a Gravel bike, does that make me a victim of advertising?
> 
> Maybe I WANT a different experience?
> 
> My hard earned cash, and I want to explore as much as I can, when I can, and WHILE I can. Marketing has nothing to do why I buy a whatever kind of bike I want.


Yeah, I get it.
MTN biking wasn't sold or advertised really. It was adapting bikes to better do what the rider needed to contend with. Rider position, type of posture / handlebar, strip off what you don't want need or use, add tires that better the needs of the riding surfaces etc... 
Do this when you live in a rural area all accessed by dirt-ish and gravel roads and voilà - 
The invention of a new riding venue !!

Mountain bikes (gravel bikes, river-crossing bikes ...) and all are for where we LIVE !! 
*Except I lived in Michigan and obviously, had to move away from family and friends once I mistakenly bought a MTN bike.


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## MikeDee (Nov 17, 2004)

fokof said:


> Here's the numbers for Trek
> You're right , the difference in geometry is pretty radical.
> 
> So radical that they needed to create another segment.
> ...


I think you have the captions reversed. The gravel bike should have a slacker head angle, longer chainstays than the cross one.


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## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

Bof .... not very important
My point being that its not VERY different

Different company are designing frames with more difference than that and still call them "Road bike" or "MTB" without the need to create another segment.

But hey .... if it makes people happy to drink that brand new CoolAid

Just go ride


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

fokof said:


> My point being that its not VERY different


Maybe instead of calling it a gravel bike they should market it as a little bit different cyclocross bike that's not really made for cyclocross racing?


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

fokof said:


> Just go ride


Try it sometime...


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

fokof said:


> Bof .... not very important
> My point being that its not VERY different
> 
> Different company are designing frames with more difference than that and still call them "Road bike" or "MTB" without the need to create another segment.
> ...


They just call them different things so a consumer can differentiate. What's your issue?

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

"In the UK there are very few roads like that,"

well, mr pig, in the US there are lots of roads like that in say for example, ohio, indiana, pennsylvania, kentucky, iowa, nebraska, colorado, new mexico...and a whole lot of other states.

we all need to remember there's a world outside our respective nations...


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Not sure about the chainstay length thing as a differentiator. One of the more popular (and damn expensive) gravel bikes...the 3T Exploro, billed as as an "all rounder"...has some of the shortest chainstays you'll find, 415mm. And as far as the other geo differences, how do we account for the fact (as far as I can tell) that Scott's Addict "Gravel" vs "CX" models use the same frame as far as I can tell, only difference being the build spec.

I do know one thing, after plopping down $150 to demo a 3T Exploro with 650b wheels and WTB 47mm tires, I can attest to the fun factor and the fact that it begs you to go on longer rides. This coming from an SWorks Epic HT rider and former roadie (been 5 years since I've been on a road bike) who's been leaning toward longer less rowdy mixed surface rides more. 

Want one!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

MattMay said:


> Want one!


Man, that does look nice!


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

That's the exact one I demoed, the team version. Much more affordable than the limited ($4200 for a frame!!). The demo was set up with Sram Force 1, 44 single ring in front, 11-speed 10-42 rear. It's a very clean design...by Gerard Vroomen of Cervelo and OPEN fame. Billed as "aero." Now THAT may be some fancy marketing for sure.


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

MattMay said:


> Not sure about the chainstay length thing as a differentiator.


Here are some differences-

My old cross bike (Ibis Hakkalugi): 422mm
Niner cross bike (BSB 9) : 425mm
My gravel bike (Niner RLT): 430mm


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

3T Exploro, 415mm
Trek Boone (CX), 425mm
Trek Checkpoint (gravel), 425mm
Scott Addict (CX), 422mm
Scott Addict (gravel), 422mm
Spesh Crux (CX), 425 mm
Rondo RUUT CF1 (gravel), 420mm

Just don't think it's a differentiator if you look at the latest offerings.


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## Haggis (Jan 21, 2004)

Just bought a nice 7kg roadie for fast commuting and weekend thrashing around the peninsula, but I’ve come to realise I don’t like the aggressive position and harsh ride, so I’m thinking a ‘gravel bike’ (stupid name) might be a better bet, and it would allow me take ride the gravel roads around the coastal inlets etc that the road bike doesn’t, as well as be a more forgiving commuter. 
What do you guys think of the Merida Silex? I like the concept of mtb geo combined with road kit.


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## Eric Malcolm (Dec 18, 2011)

ALimon said:


> After test riding a gravel bike and watching that video I couldn't help but wonder if they made a hybrid road bike/mtb bar. So I googled it and found these. Not bad.

















Made these back in 2011, integrated. Nothing better.

Eric


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

David R said:


> Gravel bikes aren't entirely dumb, just the drop bars....


Two thoughts on that comment. That's just what I thought about them yesterday when I had a tailwind and most of the 11 mi commute was downhill and more urban. The way home after stop 2 was into the wind and you could say racing a thunder storm and the charge left on my lights. Then the tucked position was my friend.

As a baby boomer I can be quick to laugh at some trends. My first bike (1950s balloon tire cruiser), Sting Ray, first "10 speed racer" (1972 Raleigh) and college bikes (1930s Elgin, 1960s British 3 speed) were all gravel bikes. They were also my first MTBs. Some of us didn't know people were inventing MTBs but we were trying to make our bikes better for the offload trails we would ride. It was sweet when I discovered some catalogs that sold better tires bull moose bars, and when I got my original StumpJumer.

Not laughing at all the trends is enjoying the specialty and reliability we have now. I'm not sure I need stuff like our fat bikes, my amazing plastic trail bike or Fargo but they help keep the fun and utility happening.

The specialization is interesting to see with my wife and kids who don't obsess on the details but our height lets us share a fleet of bikes. They do choose the bike (tool) that's best for the job.


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## ALimon (Oct 12, 2017)

Eric Malcolm said:


> View attachment 1196721
> View attachment 1196723
> 
> 
> ...


Eric...... those look awesome! Well done! Do you take pay pal? Lol.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Road my CruX today on an 84 mile mixed surface "gravel" ride. Love it. Set up 40s tubeless on wide carbon rims and a 1x drivetrain it goes anywhere. Much better than doing this on a mtb.









Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

TiGeo said:


> Road my CruX today on an 84 mile mixed surface "gravel" ride. Love it. Set up 40s tubeless on wide carbon rims and a 1x drivetrain it goes anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:thumbsup:


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

TiGeo said:


> Road my CruX today on an 84 mile mixed surface "gravel" ride. Love it. Set up 40s tubeless on wide carbon rims and a 1x drivetrain it goes anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice job!


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## cwtch (Apr 26, 2018)

I put big gravel miles on a Trek Crockett (cyclo-cross bike). Issue is many find dedicated gravel bikes more stable due to longer geo and the ability to accept wider tyres. 
IDK my cross bike works for me but gravel bikes don't upset me or anything. I race cross so need that bike and don't have a great enough reason to get a dedicated gravel bike. For me the cross works fine. That said if I didn't cross race I might get a gravel bike.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I was just thinking of this thread, while I was out having fun on my gravel bike. 

Its not fancy, no carbon anything but she rides like a dream. Steel is real!









Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

jcd46 said:


> I was just thinking of this thread, while I was out having fun on my gravel bike.
> 
> Its not fancy, no carbon anything but she rides like a dream. Steel is real!
> 
> ...


Nice place to ride!


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

^^Thanks, this just around my house. I'm lucky we have about 15miles of horse trails like that, have to throw in a bit of road but its a nice little workout ride.


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## Turner2 (Feb 29, 2012)

If you are more comfortable on a road bike and have lots of dirt roads to ride then a cross or gravel bike is the perfect bike. You can go just about anywhere with it and though not as capable on technical single track as a mountain bike it is far more comfortable on long dirt road rides. Definitely faster on dirt roads than mtb's. 

I ride my Lemond Poprad far more than either road or mtb. When I go out for a solo ride of 4 or more hours is is the only choice for me. 

Calling them dumb or suggesting that only six people use them, now that is dumb.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

The biggest thing the modern "gravel" bikes are giving folks is tire clearance (40+). CX racing bikes just don't typically offer enough clearance for proper gravel tires. With that said, I have done a 100 mile rough-Roubaix type ride on my road bike with 28s and survived just fine. About 40% of it was gravel vs. pavement. I am looking to get one of the more flared "adventure" drop bars (only mild flare) to help with comfort vs. my standard road bars I am using now.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> Yes. Compulsory.


Dang. Does a handlebar mustache count?

Gravel bikes aren't dumb. In much the same way a trail bike can double as an XC race bike if you aren't too serious about racing, ride a bunch of trails, and even get in some light enduro if the rider has some skills, a gravel bike will let you cover the other end of the spectrum of riding. I ride a lot of "roads" on my "gravel bike" that are supposed to be paved, but the pavement is so broken up I see roadies with flats with some frequency. Also, it lets me deal with gravel roads, gravel bike paths, and even some very non-technical single track transfers between some of these surfaces, without sacrificing a whole lot when I actually have it on a "good" road. Nope, it'd be dumber to own road bike and a downhill bike to try to cover all these rides, wouldn't it?


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

Cotharyus said:


> Dang. Does a handlebar mustache count?
> 
> Gravel bikes aren't dumb. In much the same way a trail bike can double as an XC race bike if you aren't too serious about racing, ride a bunch of trails, and even get in some light enduro if the rider has some skills, a gravel bike will let you cover the other end of the spectrum of riding. I ride a lot of "roads" on my "gravel bike" that are supposed to be paved, but the pavement is so broken up I see roadies with flats with some frequency. Also, it lets me deal with gravel roads, gravel bike paths, and even some very non-technical single track transfers between some of these surfaces, without sacrificing a whole lot when I actually have it on a "good" road. Nope, it'd be dumber to own road bike and a downhill bike to try to cover all these rides, wouldn't it?


Best answer


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Cotharyus said:


> Dang. Does a handlebar mustache count?


Oh yes! In fact you get extra stars on your badge for one of those. You know, like McDonalds? It doesn't matter how many stars you get, the only people who do not think you're a dick are other people with badges.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> Oh yes! In fact you get extra stars on your badge for one of those. You know, like McDonalds? It doesn't matter how many stars you get, the only people who do not think you're a dick are other people with badges.


Excellent. My plan is working.


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## cwtch (Apr 26, 2018)

The true questions are:

do guys riding gravel bikes need baggies or lycra ?

is gravel grinding hipster enough to do in cut off skinny jeans ?

shaved legs for the lads or no ? 

All asked in fun. I like riding gravel.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

cwtch said:


> The true questions are:
> 
> do guys riding gravel bikes need baggies or lycra ?
> 
> ...


gravel seems to be running the edge of "hipster" around here...lots of flannel; short skinny jeans, and epic beards...I see more gravel bikes parked outside of the local micro breweries than I did a year ago, when it was all refurbished older fixies and cruisers


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## cwtch (Apr 26, 2018)

sXeXBMXer said:


> gravel seems to be running the edge of "hipster" around here...lots of flannel; short skinny jeans, and epic beards...I see more gravel bikes parked outside of the local micro breweries than I did a year ago, when it was all refurbished older fixies and cruisers


Same here it is fringe and or roadies looking for less traffic. In my case a great way to stay conditioned without the beating of self up that occurs on single-track.


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## ericzamora (Dec 14, 2017)

cwtch said:


> The true questions are:
> 
> do guys riding gravel bikes need baggies or lycra ?
> 
> ...


KNICKERS!

eric
fresno, ca.


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## Turner2 (Feb 29, 2012)

I don't know why anyone would call them gravel bikes. No one likes riding on fresh loose gravel. Packed dirt/clay with gravel on the other hand can be as smooth as pavement. I'll stick with the cross moniker since I have a purpose built cross bike. Just barely has room for 42's at the back.


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## cwtch (Apr 26, 2018)

ericzamora said:


> KNICKERS!
> 
> eric
> fresno, ca.


Of course ! I should have known.


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## bachman1961 (Oct 9, 2013)

Cotharyus said:


> Excellent. My plan is working.


:thumbsup:

I'm laughing at that. Nice !


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I don't say CX bike because to me CX is a racing discipline much like I don't call my mtb a "XC" bike. I usually just say "drop bar bike" or "gravel bike" seems to describe it better like "mountain bike". I know....who cares but this $hit is important...hahaha. ok...back to putting on my jorts and flannel and grooming my beard before I load up all my bags for a gravel grinder.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

Turner2 said:


> I don't know why anyone would call them gravel bikes. No one likes riding on fresh loose gravel. Packed dirt/clay with gravel on the other hand can be as smooth as pavement. I'll stick with the cross moniker since I have a purpose built cross bike. Just barely has room for 42's at the back.


The term "dirt bike" was already taken. "Clay bike" sounds like you have a bike made from clay.


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## Porkchop_Power (Jul 30, 2008)

Just go back to calling them touring bikes. Leave the panniers at home if you are not spending the night.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Turner2 said:


> I don't know why anyone would call them gravel bikes. No one likes riding on fresh loose gravel.


When I lived in the midwest (US) we would often go on long gravel road rides and most of those roads were pretty loose and rocky, it was worth it though to be free of traffic and enjoy pleasant rolling farmland scenery. We did those rides on standard road bikes with 23mm tires and somehow still managed to have fun.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

VTSession said:


> The term "dirt bike" was already taken.


How about "dirt road" bike? Would that be dumb? So different from "gravel" bike. Might require a new thread.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Gasp4Air said:


> So different from "gravel" bike. Might require a new thread.


Yeah, a dirt road bike would require slightly different geometry than a gravel bike


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

Turner2 said:


> I don't know why anyone would call them gravel bikes. No one likes riding on fresh loose gravel. Packed dirt/clay with gravel on the other hand can be as smooth as pavement. I'll stick with the cross moniker since I have a purpose built cross bike. Just barely has room for 42's at the back.


Rivendell calls them "Allroad," bikes which is a term I often use when describing mine. It's pretty accurate for how I ride mine, mix of paved and dirt roads, a trail here and there if one presents itself. Gravel bikes is just the new industry-speak term.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

J.B. Weld said:


> That's jewelry, I don't wear jewelry but it's fine by me if some people enjoy it. A $10 timex performs the same as a $5,000 rolex, both will get you to work on time but a $150 bso doesn't perform the same as a quality well designed bike and unfortunately those cost a bit more than $150. It all depends on what you want out of your equipment and for me performance = fun and I like fun.


Give it 10 or 20 years then see which one is still working.

Saying a Timex is the same as a Rolex is every bit as silly as saying a $150 BSO is the same as a good bike.

But I have a Timex and not a Rolex. lol (plus about 15 other watches)


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

93EXCivic said:


> Give it 10 or 20 years then see which one is still working.


That would be the Timex for sure. Takes a licking and keeps on ticking!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

93EXCivic said:


> Saying a Timex is the same as a Rolex is every bit as silly as saying a $150 BSO is the same as a good bike.


No way, for all practical purposes a Timex is every bit as good as a Rolex. Vanity buys a Rolex.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

J.B. Weld said:


> No way, for all practical purposes a Timex is every bit as good as a Rolex. Vanity buys a Rolex.


I am sorry that just isn't true. The Rolex is precision made CNC machined high quality stainless while a Timex is low quality chrome plated brass assembled in China at the lowest possible cost. Also the Rolex is a mechanical movement which is serviceable and will still be usable in 20-30 or even 100 years. Where as the cheap Timex quartz movement will be dead a long long time before that. My oldest mechanical watch is 106 years old and my oldest wrist watch is 96 years old. I seriously doubt a modern Timex will still be working in that many years.

I do have to agree that there is a certain vanity to buying a Rolex and I personally prefer more under the radar brands. But Rolex metal bracelets they use on there watches are the best short of the AP Royal Oak in terms of fit and finish. The only way that you can say that Rolex and Timex are the same is if you have never handled a Rolex. Also there is a certain irony to the fact that the person who said "Some people enjoy nice things." says that a Timex is as good as a Rolex.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

I have a wind-up Timex watch from 1973 that still works.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Trojans vs. Magnum anyone? 

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

93EXCivic said:


> Saying a Timex is the same as a Rolex is every bit as silly as saying a $150 BSO is the same as a good bike.


A modern Timex will be a digital watch, and will likely be more accurate than the mechanical Rolex, although high grade mechanical movements can be adjusted to be quite accurate. The poster didn't say the Timex was as desirable as the Rolex, just that it would get you to work on time equally well. The Timex might well be around in 20 years if given the equivalent maintenance as the Rolex. However, you could by numerous new Timex's for what it will cost to maintain the Rolex.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

93EXCivic said:


> My oldest mechanical watch is 106 years old and my oldest wrist watch is 96 years old. I seriously doubt a modern Timex will still be working in that many years


I could buy several hundred Timex watches for the price of 1 Rolex, I could toss them out and put on a new one every few weeks for the rest of my life and still come out ahead. How much does one service on a Rolex cost? Buy expensive watches for whatever reason you want but a $5,000 piece of jewelry that tells the time is far from practical.

Unlike a bso a Timex will never try to maim you or leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere.

Does anyone even wear watches anymore?


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

Gasp4Air said:


> A modern Timex will be a digital watch, and will likely be more accurate than the mechanical Rolex, although high grade mechanical movements can be adjusted to be quite accurate. The poster didn't say the Timex was as desirable as the Rolex, just that it would get you to work on time equally well. The Timex might well be around in 20 years if given the equivalent maintenance as the Rolex. However, you could by numerous new Timex's for what it will cost to maintain the Rolex.


No disputing that but isn't that just another example of the throw away society we have become.



the one ring said:


> I have a wind-up Timex watch from 1973 that still works.


I have a wind up one from about the same period but it is a lot different then my modern Timex Weekender.

Anyway I seem to have got a bit off topic so I will shut up now.


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

93EXCivic said:


> Anyway I seem to have got a bit off topic so I will shut up now.


Since when do threads in this forum stay on topic? If that's a sin, we're all dooooomed.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

To those of you truly seeking knowledge on this topic:

Cyclocross bikes v gravel/adventure bikes: what's the difference? | road.cc


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## ddoh (Jan 11, 2017)

Nailed it!


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

93EXCivic said:


> No disputing that but isn't that just another example of the throw away society we have become.


I don't think he's suggesting that you actually do it?

I have no doubt that Rolex watches are exquisitely well built machines. I also have no doubt that they are grade-A wank!

Would a gravel bike even work on fresh, loose gravel? I regularly ride gravel at speed on my mountain bike and I have to say that I would not like to do it on skinny tyres.


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## Turner2 (Feb 29, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> ...Would a gravel bike even work on fresh, loose gravel?...


I do it when necessary with 42's on my cross bike. It's definitely better once packed.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

How can we pin a definition on a "gravel bike" when we don't have a firm definition of a "gravel road?"


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I think "adventure bike" is the best description. 

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

"Gravel Bike" is a definition that most likely originated (or at least gained popularity) from Guitar Ted and the Trans Iowa race which takes place primarily on gravel b roads.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

jcd46 said:


> I think "adventure bike" is the best description.
> 
> Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


I was going to post the same thing.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

jcd46 said:


> I think "adventure bike" is the best description.


But can't a mountain bike do bigger adventures? So 'middle-sized adventure bike' maybe?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Just call it the best all around bike for some people if that works better.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

chazpat said:


> I was going to post the same thing.


+1



Mr Pig said:


> But can't a mountain bike do bigger adventures? So 'middle-sized adventure bike' maybe?


You can probably do more miles on a gravel bike, and tougher terrain on a MTB?

Choose your canvas.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

J.B. Weld said:


> Just call it the best all around bike for some people if that works better.


Catchy.


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> Just call it the best all around bike for some people if that works better.


That's disturbingly honest.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Several years ago the 29er forum called it a "monstercross bike" and ex-poster Glow Boy termed his an "adventure bike."

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/i-beg-you-more-monstercross-355649.html


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Nat said:


> Several years ago the 29er forum called it a "monstercross bike" and ex-poster Glow Boy termed his an "adventure bike."
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/i-beg-you-more-monstercross-355649.html


That's a great thread! I've spent a few work hours on it before 

Edit: Oops it took multiple quotes from a previous quote. :madman:


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## dompedro3 (Jan 26, 2004)

I just built up a budget gravel bike. I had an old cross frame that fit disc brakes and barely fit the 42c tires I chose. A rigid carbon mountain bike fork later and some drop bars I had the first look at my sweet gravel bike. 1x9 leftover drivetrain and some mismatched disc wheels and it was rideable.

I went on a test ride at night, because my creation wasn't quite ready for the world yet and decided that I didn't like the drop bars, so I put on some carbon risers that were a bit too narrow for my mountain bike and prepared to unleash my gravel-awesomeness on the world.

I grew a beard and broke out the merino wool retro jersey for the occasion. I imagined hours of silence broken only by the crunch of my gravel tires on the soft dusty gravel paths that snake through the suburban wilderness on their way to a rural paradise filled with other gravel enthusiasts and craft beer.

I carefully wheeled my out creation from my bike cave my wife looked at it perched atop her Liv Flourish with the basket out front. "nice hybrid" she said and rode off, her polka dot skirt flapping in the gravel dusted wind.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

The only thing that's dumb are the people that have their panties in a bunch over gravel bikes. If gravel riding or "gravel bikes" aren't your thing...look elsewhere...there's nothing to see here.

For the rest of us...gravel/adventure bikes are great. I can ride places I couldn't on my Synapse and I can still pound the pavement at the same speeds I could on my road bike. I really don't see any downside to a gravel bike and only positives.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Mr Pig said:


> But can't a mountain bike do bigger adventures? So 'middle-sized adventure bike' maybe?


Well, plenty of people ride their road bikes on mountain roads. Somewhere-between-mountain-and-road-bikes-but-probably-closer-to-road-bikes bike?


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Nubster said:


> The only thing that's dumb are the people that have their panties in a bunch over gravel bikes. If gravel riding or "gravel bikes" aren't your thing...look elsewhere...there's nothing to see here.
> 
> For the rest of us...gravel/adventure bikes are great. I can ride places I couldn't on my Synapse and I can still pound the pavement at the same speeds I could on my road bike. I really don't see any downside to a gravel bike and only positives.
> 
> View attachment 1197407


What bars do you have on the Kona? If you don't mind. Are they super flared? or is it just the image?


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

On One Midge bars. Not super flared....just look that way because the drops are short and kinda pointed down rather than back and because they do make the brake levers flare out which isn't an issue and actually puts them in a good position.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

J.B. Weld said:


> I could buy several hundred Timex watches for the price of 1 Rolex, I could toss them out and put on a new one every few weeks for the rest of my life and still come out ahead. How much does one service on a Rolex cost? Buy expensive watches for whatever reason you want but a $5,000 piece of jewelry that tells the time is far from practical.
> 
> Unlike a bso a Timex will never try to maim you or leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere.
> 
> Does anyone even wear watches anymore?


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## BlueDog03 (Jun 2, 2008)

Found two more fellow gravel bike riders at the tour of Hermann. There were also mountain bikes, cross bikes, tandem bikes, and even fat electric bikes at the event. Ride what you have. The most expensive bike is still cheaper than heart surgery.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

I rode my friend’s Trek Domane ALR 5 Gravel bike last night for 20 miles of smooth gravel (plus 5 miles of road) and it was really nice.


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

BlueDog03 said:


> Found two more fellow gravel bike riders at the tour of Hermann. There were also mountain bikes, cross bikes, tandem bikes, and even fat electric bikes at the event. Ride what you have. The most expensive bike is still cheaper than heart surgery.


I did a gravel ride last weekend for a local mountain bike club and expected the crowd to be 100% roadie. I was completely wrong - every type of bike imaginable was gravel grinding - road, XC, fat, plus, full suspension, hardtail, touring and gravel. It was cool to see people not give a damn about equipment and just have fun on bikes.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

VTSession said:


> I did a gravel ride last weekend for a local mountain bike club and expected the crowd to be 100% roadie. I was completely wrong - every type of bike imaginable was gravel grinding - road, XC, fat, plus, full suspension, hardtail, touring and gravel. It was cool to see people not give a damn about equipment and just have fun on bikes.


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## Clayncedar (Aug 25, 2016)

VTSession said:


> I did a gravel ride last weekend for a local mountain bike club and expected the crowd to be 100% roadie. I was completely wrong - every type of bike imaginable was gravel grinding - road, XC, fat, plus, full suspension, hardtail, touring and gravel. It was cool to see people not give a damn about equipment and just have fun on bikes.


Agreed.

Yearround fulltime fatbiker here living in an area where fatbikes are rare enough that non-mtbrs stop, stare, ask questions about the bike fairly often.

Among mtbrs a somewhat different story as I have caught somewhat disdainful looks from both the Enduro bike crowd on the XC trails and gravel grinders during gravel rides.

People are often too worried about bike "stuff" rather than the experience.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

VTSession said:


> I did a gravel ride last weekend for a local mountain bike club and expected the crowd to be 100% roadie. I was completely wrong - every type of bike imaginable was gravel grinding - road, XC, fat, plus, full suspension, hardtail, touring and gravel. It was cool to see people not give a damn about equipment and just have fun on bikes.





Clayncedar said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Yearround fulltime fatbiker here living in an area where fatbikes are rare enough that non-mtbrs stop, stare, ask questions about the bike fairly often.
> 
> ...


yeah...funny that it is that way...especially with (so called) adults. I bought my bike because it checked off all of my boxes...not because of some defined box I was trying to fit into. Granted, I do keep my self in the "full rigid steel" box, but not to shove it in peoples faces or to prove a point.

I also live in an area where the majority of bikes are FS or front squish, and regular width tires. In fact, I have only really ever seen 5-6 others with plus or fat at all..

I get the most comments when I ride on the paved trails...and like mentioned above, it is usually from new bikers, or people who are just cruisers, family riders or kids.

I still get more "negative" reaction at the trail head b/c I don't ride in a "kit". Everyone else gets out of their cars and gets in their costumes... I get out in my cargo shorts and t-shirt and just go. Usually guys will look at me like "beginner", or what is he doing here. I also usually get some comments inquiring about the Krampus, especially now that it is a "Version 1" ...."oh, that's an old green one. Cool".


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

shekky said:


> View attachment 1197436


A Casio? Those things are highly unreliable, I wouldn't risk it.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

VTSession said:


> I did a gravel ride last weekend for a local mountain bike club and expected the crowd to be 100% roadie. I was completely wrong - every type of bike imaginable was gravel grinding - road, XC, fat, plus, full suspension, hardtail, touring and gravel. It was cool to see people not give a damn about equipment and just have fun on bikes.


We are all Cyclists at the end of the day.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

VTSession said:


> I did a gravel ride last weekend for a local mountain bike club and expected the crowd to be 100% roadie. I was completely wrong - every type of bike imaginable was gravel grinding - road, XC, fat, plus, full suspension, hardtail, touring and gravel. It was cool to see people not give a damn about equipment and just have fun on bikes.


Cool! The good thing is, THAT is the real world! Only on the webz is where you get all this.."your bike is dumb" "you are over/under biked"..shtuff..

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I still get more "negative" reaction at the trail head b/c I don't ride in a "kit". Everyone else gets out of their cars and gets in their costumes... I get out in my cargo shorts and t-shirt and just go.


Hmmm...maybe those folks bought their "costumes" because they checked off all of their boxes...not because of some defined box they were trying to fit into.



sXeXBMXer said:


> Usually guys will look at me like "beginner", or what is he doing here.


You seem to be very insecure but maybe you are psychic and able to read minds - rather than simply imaging what people must be thinking about you.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

I ride mountain bike in shorts...more because it's kinda the "style". But honestly, those costumes are more practical and often more comfortable to ride in. I usually ride road with just my bibs and a jersey.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

J.B. Weld said:


> A Casio? Those things are highly unreliable, I wouldn't risk it.


i beg to differ.

the one before this one ran ten years. the band died before the watch.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

jcd46 said:


> Cool! The good thing is, THAT is the real world! Only on the webz is where you get all this.."your bike is dumb" "you are over/under biked"..shtuff..


True, you hear a lot of smack talk on the forums but out on the trail I've only heard words of encouragement. Never have I seen anyone berated for being a beginner or having inferior equipment.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

j
You can probably do more miles on a gravel bike said:


> yes


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Nubster said:


> I ride mountain bike in shorts...more because it's kinda the "style". But honestly, those costumes are more practical and often more comfortable to ride in. I usually ride road with just my bibs and a jersey.


I'm much more comfortable and efficient in my costume kit, too.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

fillaroida said:


> Hmmm...maybe those folks bought their "costumes" because they checked off all of their boxes...not because of some defined box they were trying to fit into.
> 
> You seem to be very insecure but maybe you are psychic and able to read minds - rather than simply imaging what people must be thinking about you.


not at all insecure, and I don't need to be psychic to read a sneer or an under their breath laugh.

...and again, it is a minority of the people I encounter on our trails. 99% of the riders are absolutely chill, helpful and informative

if i was insecure, I would just go ahead and follow the trend to be accepted, rather than do my own thing...

and I also forgot that you have been there with me in all of my riding experiences...


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I don't know how people notice all this stuff on the trail! Other than on stop points, do I even notice anyone's gear, bike or whatever. 

If I see a guy on an Enduro bike? "awesome he can afford it" and probably a sweet ride.

If I see a guy on beginner bike? "Cool one more person enjoying this awesome sport" 

If I see a guy on Gravel bike? "bad ass dude!" 

If I see a guy on a clunker? "even more bad ass!" and probably a sweet bike as well. 

If I see a guy on a roadie? "ride on" "cool he is on a bike" 

As far as clothing, I'm wearing what I'm comfortable with, period.


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

sXeXBMXer said:


> not at all insecure, and I don't need to be psychic to read a sneer or an under their breath laugh.


If you are not insecure, why are you bothered by the assumed slights of total strangers?


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

jcd46 said:


> Trojans vs. Magnum anyone?
> 
> Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


I use Japanese version.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

J.B. Weld said:


> No way, for all practical purposes a Timex is every bit as good as a Rolex. Vanity buys a Rolex.


I have a few Swiss watches but no Rolex. They are super nice and almost accurate as quartz watch

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Are gravel bikes used by hippies? 

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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

sito40 said:


> Are gravel bikes used by hippies?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


No, down here the 'hippies' are riding $3000 stolen full-suspension bikes that they park in their tree-hidden homeless enclaves. No joke. A lot of the homeless down here wear jewelry and decorate their shopping cart. The Beverly Homelessbillies. One of them even rode out of their encampment and outpedaled me uphill by the road. I'm like wow, the dude is a complete loser but he knows how to ride a stolen bike.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

jcd46 said:


> I don't know how people notice all this stuff on the trail! Other than on stop points, do I even notice anyone's gear, bike or whatever.
> 
> If I see a guy on an Enduro bike? "awesome he can afford it" and probably a sweet ride.
> 
> ...


Sort of the same, but I do have to say that I will catalog the bikes I see just because bikes are cool pieces of machinery. Each persons bike is like a story, and in some way unique to the other bikes on the trail



fillaroida said:


> If you are not insecure, why are you bothered by the assumed slights of total strangers?


I should have been more clear in my first comments: I NOTICE it...it never bothers me


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I should have been more clear in my first comments: I NOTICE it...it never bothers me


So while at the trail head you imagine that you get negative reactions based on what you wear, and assume that guys are looking at you and assuming that you're a "beginner", or wondering what you are doing there. You imagine that those folks are sneering at you and laughing under their breath.

Thinking these things doesn't make you insecure...ok.

All of that perceived feedback doesn't bother you though even though you had to whine about it in this thread.

Got it.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

:nonod::nonod::nonod:


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

richj8990 said:


> No, down here the 'hippies' are riding $3000 stolen full-suspension bikes that they park in their tree-hidden homeless enclaves. No joke. A lot of the homeless down here wear jewelry and decorate their shopping cart. The Beverly Homelessbillies. One of them even rode out of their encampment and outpedaled me uphill by the road. I'm like wow, the dude is a complete loser but he knows how to ride a stolen bike.


"I'm like wow, the dude is a complete loser but he knows how to ride a stolen bike."

do not underestimate the magical powers of meth...


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

chazpat said:


> :nonod::nonod::nonod:


agree...I'm over it


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

fillaroida said:


> So while at the trail head you imagine that you get negative reactions based on what you wear, and assume that guys are looking at you and assuming that you're a "beginner", or wondering what you are doing there. You imagine that those folks are sneering at you and laughing under their breath.
> 
> Thinking these things doesn't make you insecure...ok.
> 
> ...


I built myself another mtb frame about a year ago. I build frames for a hobby. I run the same old 26"/2x9 drivetrains i have for over a decade cuz it's the same **** and 1/4 the price, and an extensively modified lyrik. It took 8 months for someone to say something positive about my bike, and it was a guy working at a car wash. The first comment was from some random dude who saw me dropping off my car for new tires who gave me a 15 minute dressing down about how shitty my bike was and how his yeti and s-works somethingorother were amazing, and the next several were 'damn you're fast on that jalopy.'

I really don't care; i've done it all and different gear isn't gonna make it more fun, but the mtb judgery is kind of exhausting. I can see the appeal of wearing whatever is fashionable just cuz ya it's probably great and it's nice to have a positive starting point for interacting with MTB randos.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I was out on my SS a couple of weeks ago. It's a 2003 steel frame with Cook Brothers cranks and V-brakes. I was talking to a couple of other mountain bikers on modern 29ers in the parking lot. They thought my bike was cool. 

If someone is giving you crap about your gear, they probably haven't been riding all that long. The guys with a history of riding know it's more about the ride than the gear.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

scottzg said:


> The first comment was from some random dude who saw me dropping off my car for new tires who gave me a 15 minute dressing down about how shitty my bike was and how his yeti and s-works somethingorother were amazing, and the next several were 'damn you're fast on that jalopy.


Bizarre, I wouldn't know how to respond to that.


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## cwtch (Apr 26, 2018)

I sometimes hear people talk about how cool someones bike is but have not ever heard trail side someone bust on a fellow mtb riders bike. Stinks for those who have had that happen.


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## cwtch (Apr 26, 2018)

J.B. Weld said:


> Bizarre, I wouldn't know how to respond to that.


Me either, guess I would probably ask if he wanted to buy me a new better bike hahaha idk that would be awkward to have someone go off about how crap my bike was. I do have one crappy bike but have never had anyone say anything besides the occasional, "you just rode these trails on that full rigid bike?!" More a compliment of my riding or astonishment I would ride a rigid bike than a bashing of the bike.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

We did sort of forced a GOOD friend to buy a new bike, he was coming to Sedona with us, but he was riding the lowest possible FS Schwinn you can get. That thing was going to break in half, and most importantly, he would not be safe. He couldn't afford high end, so he got a Pitch 27.5 for $600.00. He loves that bike, although not ridden super hard, he didnt even get a flat with tubes.

I would never! question anyone's anything bike related. For all I know, is a guy that has been riding decades before me.

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

jcd46 said:


> I would never! question anyone's anything bike related. For all I know, is a guy that has been riding decades before me.
> 
> Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


same here...and being a bike nerd, as I have mentioned before, I just loc=ve seeing other bikes...they do have a history, and reason that the rider is using it. I talked to a guy on the trail today for 15 minutes about bikes.

I have never been "dressed down" by someone directly, but I have sometimes received comments like:

" Why would you want that bike?"

or

"Isn't that a bit too much for this trail?'

or

" How can you stand to ride rigid?"

again, usually with a tone of derision in the question (which now fillaroida is going to say actually didn't happen and that I was just making it up). And also, this is a minority of people I encounter


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## fillaroida (Oct 2, 2017)

sXeXBMXer said:


> again, usually with a tone of derision in the question (which now fillaroida is going to say actually didn't happen and that I was just making it up). And also, this is a minority of people I encounter


"_All of that perceived feedback doesn't bother you though even though you had to whine about it in this thread. _

_Got it."_


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

fillaroida said:


> "_All of that perceived feedback doesn't bother you though even though you had to whine about it in this thread. _
> 
> _Got it."_


...and again, you are missing the point that I never said that it BOTHERED me... I have always only said that it HAPPENED to me...

Got it


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## RonSonic (Jan 8, 2005)

Not long ago a guy showed up for a group ride on a hybrid sorta path bike thing. He was asked "y' gonna be okay on that?" and out of concern. Seems his "friends" had told him it'd be the perfect bike for this ride, yada yah. 

As for criticisms, never heard any, not even when showing up at the trail head with profoundly antiquated gear. Usually, that spurs conversations of fond remembrance for 8s XT or whatever.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

At last the industry has found a term for what I'd call a proper bike. One you want to take anywhere there's a dirt surface, and one you'll happily ride to that surface. Not a bike for back of the car.

As far as I'm concerned, a gravel bike is the bike for the wide open spaces such as non technical singletrack, gravel, and roads.

But what makes a decent gravel bike?

I think there's only one qualification, and that's the ability to take a tyre of sufficient volume that you can ride in comfort on all sorts of surfaces, ie wider than what you can cram into a CX bike. The configuration of the bike is immaterial (bars, etc), it's the tyre that makes it work.

The appropriate size for dirt was recognised as being 2" back in the early days of cycling, but they were thick heavy things, and the proliferation of surfaced roads encouraged the adoption of narrower tyres for speed. (The British bike industry continued making 2" tyre bikes for dirt roads right up to the late 1950s, but only supplied them to the colonies.)

In the beginning all bikes were gravel bikes because there were very few surfaced roads, and it's no coincidence that now they are getting to much the same profile.

It may be a marketing term, but it's a category that hasn't been excessively limited by UCI restrictions, the aesthetic sensibilities of the mamils, fragilated by the weight weenies, or over refined into a purpose built weapon by the mtb thrill seekers trying to make the most out of restricted riding areas.

We almost got there with the early mtbs, and I suspect we'll end up using pretty much the same steering geometry as the 1990s when rigid hardtails were at their peak.

The introduction of the "hybrids" looked promising, but they were almost universally fitted with heavy crap suspension forks and cheap heavy mtb components, barely a step up from BSOs and aimed more at the commuting market.

Monstercross 29ers were a step in the right direction, but heavily lugged tyres are no fun on the road.

I'm surprised there is so much criticism about gravel bikes. Are the sneerers the same people who didn't like mtbs, then were antagonistic to tyres wider than 1.9", followed by incredulity that anyone would want to ride a 29er, disk brakes, etc etc? 

Pity their pathetic lives while you enjoy a ride on your bike, gravel.


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## saidrick (Jan 28, 2006)

I really like my gravel bike. I finally found a bike to ride on the road with. Smooth roads, backroads, dirt roads, etc. 

The gravel bike fixed every issue I had with regular road bikes:

1. Disc brakes instead of rim brakes.

2. Wider wheels and tires, instead of super skinny, for more stability and comfort. 

3. Longer, more relaxed geometry and bigger cassettes for easier climbing. 

4. It has rack mounts so there are future bikepacking options too.

5. It can mix in some dirt trails into the ride. 

But the most important part of the gravel bike is that it let’s me get out more on the bike, during the week when I don’t have time to head to the trails. 

Longer rides on the weekends will help me ride longer on the trails and is a great choice when the trails are too wet and muddy to ride on.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Velobike said:


> At last the industry has found a term for what I'd call a proper bike. One you want to take anywhere there's a dirt surface, and one you'll happily ride to that surface.


We used to just call them bikes.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

life behind bars said:


> We used to just call them bikes.


Indeed.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

life behind bars said:


> We used to just call them bikes.


we also called them BMX bikes


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

sXeXBMXer said:


> we also called them BMX bikes


I predate those.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

life behind bars said:


> I predate those.


nice!!

I am a 70's/80's child so you could say I grew up with them...my BMX was my roadie, MTB, commuter, gravel, enduro, XC....only thing it wasn't was "e", other than the playing cards in the spokes...


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

sXeXBMXer said:


> nice!!
> 
> I am a 70's/80's child so you could say I grew up with them...my BMX was my roadie, MTB, commuter, gravel, enduro, XC....only thing it wasn't was "e", other than the playing cards in the spokes...


Yep, same idea. One bike to do everything with. We didn't know any better.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Lots of mtbers haven't spent enough time off their mtbs to understand why folks may want a fatter tire road bike/adventure bike/gravel bike/whatevertheflip bike. I have. I have ridden a 100 mile rough Roubaix on a standard road bike with 28s. 40% gravel sectours. It's rough. You flat. You don't have great control. It's not particularly comfy. Think riding a rigid on rough rocky mountain trails vs. your enduro bro bike. But, you can kill it on the road sections. My CruX excels on gravel with some losses on the road from gearing and wider tires. Try it on a mtb, sure, you can ride it no issue but you will be v. slow. We have a "gravel" race here each year, 50 miles, called Monstercross. It's a fun one and its a 50/50 split between mtbs and the drop bar bikes that shall not be named. It's more of a dirt road/trail race and as expected, the mtbs win each year. The winning mtbs are usually somewhat modified to have narrower tires, rigid forks (HTs), and taller gearing. I ride it on my drop bar bike b/c I like the extra challenge of the narrower tires/drop bars. It's really great to be able to own multiple bikes and ride multiple disciplines and have the right bike for the job. Right now, if I had to pick one of my bikes to keep, between my Niner RKT (mtb), my Specy CruX (gravellator), my Roubaix (road), and my Specy Stumpjumper HT (currently a SS), I'd keep the CruX. I can ride it on the road. I can ride on mtb trails that aren't too rowdy, and I can ride it pretty much anywhere. But fortunately, I can keep all of them and will continue to enjoy all my bikes and all the different terrain I can ride with them.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

The gravel bike formula works perfect for me. I ride 10,000+ miles a yr. and had noticed the usage of my road bike had dwindled down to almost nothing. All the reasons (more flats, sketchy dirt road performance, poor brakes compared to my disk equipped bikes) + the desire for a steel frame were addressed by the Breezer Inversion Team I ended up buying. I had looked at building a Ultrega/disk equipped steel road bike but the cost was higher than what I could justify for my estimated amount of usage (double what I paid for the Breezer) and it still would have iffy dirt road performance. Sure it's a bit slower and heavier than my BH but those advantages do me no good if I'm not riding the bike so the heavier disk/tubeless equipped steel gravel bike is a much better fit for me and NOT dumb IMO!
Mole


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

MRMOLE said:


> The gravel bike formula works perfect for me. I ride 10,000+ miles a yr. and had noticed the usage of my road bike had dwindled down to almost nothing. All the reasons (more flats, sketchy dirt road performance, poor brakes compared to my disk equipped bikes) + the desire for a steel frame were addressed by the Breezer Inversion Team I ended up buying. I had looked at building a Ultrega/disk equipped steel road bike but the cost was higher than what I could justify for my estimated amount of usage (double what I paid for the Breezer) and it still would have iffy dirt road performance. Sure it's a bit slower and heavier than my BH but those advantages do me no good if I'm not riding the bike so the heavier disk/tubeless equipped steel gravel bike is a much better fit for me and NOT dumb IMO!
> Mole


Amen. My road bike (Specialized Roubaix) doesn't see the use it used to and honestly, I don't do any fast-paced hammer-fest road rides anymore so my gravel bike (Specialized CruX) works perfect most of the time plus allows me to go offroad. Sure, you can do this on a mtb too but like riding a XC HT in an enduro race, why would you ride a mtb on a road type ride? Oh yeah, b/c mtbers are a funny lot and think that drop bars/roadies are stupid and equate to "people who can't ride technical terrain" so God forbid they give it a shot. I mean, why would you want to cruise along on hard-surfaces at 20+mph? hahahaah


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

See how fun gravel riding is? ;-)


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

MattMay said:


> See how fun gravel riding is? ;-)


She needs a bike fitting.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Crankout said:


> She needs a bike fitting.


That was the second thing I noticed.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

J.B. Weld said:


> That was the second thing I noticed.


Right? After noticing she is riding a Specialized!! :madman:


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## Haggis (Jan 21, 2004)

TiGeo said:


> Amen. My road bike (Specialized Roubaix) doesn't see the use it used to and honestly, I don't do any fast-paced hammer-fest road rides anymore so my gravel bike (Specialized CruX) works perfect most of the time plus allows me to go offroad. Sure, you can do this on a mtb too but like riding a XC HT in an enduro race, why would you ride a mtb on a road type ride? Oh yeah, b/c mtbers are a funny lot and think that drop bars/roadies are stupid and equate to "people who can't ride technical terrain" so God forbid they give it a shot. I mean, why would you want to cruise along on hard-surfaces at 20+mph? hahahaah


I've been commuting on a 7kg road bike (25mm rubber) for the last week or so and I've noticed that I'm generally faster (but not fastest) compared to my 12kg 29er HT. It's a quicker on the flat, slower on the downhills (tricky off camber corners) and hard work on the climb (53/39 crankset). 
Overall it's a far more stressful commute having to watch the road for every bit of glass and pothole and compounded by the nervous handling and rim brakes. The deep dish rims catch the wind too so I have to hang on to it.
My fastest time on the roadie is still 2min slower than the 29er (running 2.25 Ikons). 
I find the drops useful on the flat but not as efficient as a wide bar climbing and nowhere near as confident descending. 
I'd like to try a gravel bike to see if it gets any closer to the 29er and solves the issues the road bike has....


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

jcd46 said:


> Right? After noticing she is riding a Specialized!! :madman:


Riding a bike ? what bike ?


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

Looking for some 700x40c tires this week, I kept my CrossRip 3 when I moved and now I have countless miles of gravel roads to explore.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

I really wish we had more gravel roads around here..(Central Ohio). I would just ride my Krampus on them - wouldn't get a special bike or anything - , but there is something cool about going where unimproved roads take you. We see some up in Michigan where we stay in the summer. Really get to see some cool country side and terrain up there


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Osco said:


> Looking for some 700x40c tires this week, I kept my CrossRip 3 when I moved and now I have countless miles of gravel roads to explore.
> 
> View attachment 1199067


Gravel Kings.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Osco said:


> Looking for some 700x40c tires this week, I kept my CrossRip 3 when I moved and now I have countless miles of gravel roads to explore.
> 
> View attachment 1199067


Wtb nanos? Cool gum wall. 
https://www.wtb.com/collections/gravel-cx/products/nano-40c


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Gun wall Gravel Kings in 38 measure 40 on mine. Great all around tire.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Crankout said:


> She needs a bike fitting.


What's wrong with her fit?

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## BlueDog03 (Jun 2, 2008)

Gravel bikes are exceptionally dumb. The other day I asked my gravel bike a simple math question. What is 2 + 2? It could not answer. It just hung there on the wall like art. My mountain bike on the other hand...extremely smart. I asked it what the square root of 625 is. It responded 25. 
Stupid gravel bikes can't even do basic math. Do not get a gravel bike for its brains.

PS...I'll say Gravel King SK 38s are great to ride for gravel bikes. Love mine. Even if they are dumb too.


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

What Is a gravel bike ?

Or are they just another way to satisfy the N+1 addiction and sneak another bike past our own reason ?
I did this to get a fix on N+1,, will never sell it, may one day slap a geared electric motor innit 
I have a multi surface 700x35c on the back of this bike and It's almost Impossible to fall off of,
It's got tons of gear range, Should be fun to try right ?









N+1 Is the perfect number of bikes to own.
where N is your current number of bikes !


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Osco said:


> What Is a gravel bike ?
> 
> Or are they just another way to satisfy the N+1 addiction and sneak another bike past our own reason ?
> I did this to get a fix on N+1,, will never sell it, may one day slap a geared electric motor innit
> ...


I sooo want to build up a recumbent "plus" bike to try touring on. I did some research on it a few years ago and there are a couple ideas/options out there...would probably be one of the only other bike additions I would do to my collection. My new BMX will be later on this year.

I have managed to curb N+1 for now.....

for now!


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

They are not any dumber than singlespeeds. Or 3x7 drivetrains.


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## BlueDog03 (Jun 2, 2008)

Bump. Because this thread is better.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Osco said:


> What Is a gravel bike ?
> 
> Or are they just another way to satisfy the N+1 addiction and sneak another bike past our own reason ?
> I did this to get a fix on N+1,, will never sell it, may one day slap a geared electric motor innit
> ...


Nice couch.


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## RajunCajun44 (Aug 12, 2012)

JoePAz said:


> Where I ride a road bike and mtn bike are petty much all you need. We don't have "gravel" roads here. dirt roads, but most of those either have too much traffic and you will get dusted or are rough enough that a 29HT with proper flat bars is really a better ride. I did a dirt road ride last year 36 miles, 5,000 ft of climbing. Pretty much climb for 18 miles and then descend for 18 miles. Not that much fun, but good training. Still had to watch dirt road traffic on the way up and on the way down it was solid 20-30 mph limited by how much rattling you could stand. There was one guy who did it on a gravel bike and he just barely made it. Up was not too bad as the gravel bike did not hurt too much, but did not seem to help either. On the way down the narrow tires did not grip well and high pressure and lack of suspension forced him to go much slower. I was 29er HT with 2.35/2.2 tires and was getting bounced around. So here it just seems pointless to try to ride "gravel". We have lots of dirt roads to ride on, but features of a gravel bike are just not condusive to most of those trails. There is new trend of "gravel grinder races", but a good number of those are won on flat bar Mtn bikes.


couldn't say it any better than that... Arizona has very few options for gravel bike riding... roads are too rough and steep for it to make sense..


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

RajunCajun44 said:


> Arizona has very few options for gravel bike riding... roads are too rough and steep for it to make sense..


You sure? Arizona's a pretty big state!


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## Geralt (Jul 11, 2012)

Here's an Arizona gravel riding page. Dunno how much is there.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/699862316776515/


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Geralt said:


> Here's an Arizona gravel riding page.


There are people in Scotland with an orange tan but that don't make us the Bahamas.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

RajunCajun44 said:


> couldn't say it any better than that... Arizona has very few options for gravel bike riding... roads are too rough and steep for it to make sense..


Tell that to the guys and gals that are out riding gravel every weekend. Arizona has thousands of miles of dirt and gravel roads that gravel riders are taking advantage of at every opportunity.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Where I live, a simple ride can consist of road pavement, sidewalks, road shoulders, bike paths (both paved and gravel), and hopping curbs all on the same trip. 

To me, this makes a traditional "road" bike out of the question. The "gravel" bike is the true do it all speed/mileage/fitness bike if you ask me. A more useful road bike, for a very slight cost in speed. Gravel bikes also have a more relaxed geometry than their cyclocross cousins, which is good if you're not trying to win any races. 

Maybe the term "gravel" bike turns people off. But the concept is awesome. Plus they look sexy as hell.

I had a hard choice deciding if I wanted a gravel or mountain bike. But my buddy got a mountain bike, and I want to ride some trails, so mountain bike it was. Although, I can see myself having a gravel bike as my next one for sure.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

I've had one for a couple months now, and I believe that I can answer the OP's question of "Are gravel bikes dumb?"

Yes.

They are good, dumb fun!


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## Turner2 (Feb 29, 2012)

This really is not that complicated. Do you ride road bikes? Do you like the position on a road bike with drop bars? Do you have any dirt roads or multi use trails? If you answer yes to those you will enjoy a cross/gravel bike. If you can't answer those positively but are still curious don't spend a huge amount of money till you know for sure that you will like this. 

I ride road, mtb, and have a cross bike. I do more miles per year on the cross bike and do my longest rides on the cross bike. I set up the cross bike with comfort in mind with shorter reach and higher bars than the road bike.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

I remember the good old days when everybody abided by the n+1 rule. Somehow having more options of what to ride than ever before in history has made so many of us codgers. 

I think I'll just have to remember fondly all the awesome rides I did on:

Hard tails, road touring bikes, cross bikes, road bikes, fat bikes, plus bikes, rigid mountain bikes, full suspension bikes, 26ers, 650bs, 29ers, 700c, townies, fixies, singlespeeds, etc etc etc.

I can't believe someone saw fit to complain about something so inconsequential and then also got so many replies.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Here is my trail/gravel/road/touring/snow/rec-trail/etc bike















is it dumb to just have one that does it all?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

tfinator said:


> I can't believe someone saw fit to complain about something so inconsequential and then also got so many replies.


If you're referring to me (op) I wasn't complaining. It was a rhetorical question.



sXeXBMXer said:


> is it dumb to just have one that does it all?


Only if you're not happy with it. For someone who likes road racing and mountain biking one bike doesn't really do it all though.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

J.B. Weld said:


> Only if you're not happy with it. For someone who likes road racing and mountain biking one bike doesn't really do it all though.


Ah yes...racing. I never consider that b/c it is not on my radar screen, but i definitely see the need there. Even though there are some who would say a "good" biker could win a race on any bike...I don't believe that though


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Ah yes...racing. I never consider that b/c it is not on my radar screen, but i definitely see the need there. Even though there are some who would say a "good" biker could win a race on any bike...I don't believe that though


I don't race on the road either but I enjoy an occasional fast group ride. I'm sure there are some who can hang with those guys on a mountain bike but it ain't me. Plus a nice road bike is just more fun for that application.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> If you're referring to me (op) I wasn't complaining. It was a rhetorical question.
> .


Pretty troll-y post though, huh?

Also, it was not rhetorical.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

tfinator said:


> Pretty troll-y post though, huh?
> 
> Also, it was not rhetorical.


Ok, somewhat rhetorical. Troll-y? I think you're missing the context. A bunch of threads were making fun of how dumb gravel bikes are with silly reasons as to why. I think gravel bikes (or whatever you'd like to call them) are pretty cool and wanted to start a counter thread in favor of them. Don't really care if a few anti-gravel keyboard slingers got bent out of shape about it.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> Ok, somewhat rhetorical. Troll-y? I think you're missing the context. A bunch of threads were making fun of how dumb gravel bikes are with silly reasons as to why. I think gravel bikes (or whatever you'd like to call them) are pretty cool and wanted to start a counter thread in favor of them. Don't really care if a few anti-gravel keyboard slingers got bent out of shape about it.


Haha fair. The sarcasm doesn't translate this far after the fact as the context is lost, but I think we're on the same page. No, not troll-y.

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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

tfinator said:


> I remember the good old days when everybody abided by the n+1 rule. Somehow having more options of what to ride than ever before in history has made so many of us codgers.
> 
> I think I'll just have to remember fondly all the awesome rides I did on:
> 
> ...


We all prefer N+1. 
I think the OP started the thread to defend/show that gravel bikes are actually fun, a good thing, and a good choice if you go from pavement to gravel/maintenance roads to mild singletrack.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

j102 said:


> We all prefer N+1.
> I think the OP started the thread to defend/show that gravel bikes are actually fun, a good thing, and a good choice if you go from pavement to gravel/maintenance roads to mild singletrack.


Yeah we covered it. 

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## Baloney (Dec 25, 2020)

Gravel bikes are pointless in Europe. There is no gravel. There is tarmac or mud or so many rocks and trunks that you need suspension. Europe is not as desolate or dry as Usa or Australian outback so gravel bikes are pointless.


Get a road bike, cross bike or mtb. There is no place for gravel bikes in a region that is paved or wet.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I have a gravel bike -- yes, they're dumb.
This from a guy who lives in the PNW where there are 17,864,936 miles of gravel logging roads.
I know the amount because I've ridden each & every mile. This explains how I know gravel bikes are dumb.
Not a single mile of gravel is as good as an equal measure of singletrack.
That said, gravel bikes are better than road bikes.
Now, mods please move this discussion to the GBR (Gravel Bike Review) website; the website we're currently viewing is called MTBR for a reason.
Thank you.
=sParty


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## Marty_99 (Jan 5, 2021)

Gravel Bikes are 100% not dumb. 
They're super practical. If I had to own 1 single bike it would be a gravel bike. You can get your groceries on it. You can ride singletrack on it. You can ride 169,000km on it. You can bikepack with it. It is the most bicycle out there. 
Luckily for me I don't have to own 1 single bike. I own n+1.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

They are yet-another awesome bicycle industry marketing vehicle. 

I have a not terribly impressive/older one. No way it could be my one and only bike as I'm old and don't dig riding drop bars on trails very much (even with 2.2" knobby & tubeless tires on there). 

It is great for work commutes, gravel & urban rides...


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## Chuch (Jan 10, 2013)

Couple reasons they aren't dumb from my perspective as a new owner. 1) For the MTB rider who will never enjoy riding road bikes on roads with cars or wear lycra, its a great in between. Urban rides, paths, mixed rides...there are a ton of them in my area to enjoy and I really didnt have a sled to do them on. This opened up some fun days to pedal, and if I am pedaling, usually I am happy. 2) In our area (Eastern VA) our clubs and trail advocates are continuing to build all these great new trails where if it sprinkles two drops of rain, the trails are closed to riding. My time to ride is limited and we can go entire weekends where nothing seems to be opened and you can be shunned for life for getting mud on your bike. I needed a second weapon, and this gravel bike fits the bill.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Baloney said:


> Gravel bikes are pointless in Europe. There is no gravel. There is tarmac or mud or so many rocks and trunks that you need suspension. Europe is not as desolate or dry as Usa or Australian outback so gravel bikes are pointless.
> 
> Get a road bike, cross bike or mtb. There is no place for gravel bikes in a region that is paved or wet.


hahahahahahaha

been to Belgium or Netherlands lately?
these guys invented it.........


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

edubfromktown said:


> It is great for work commutes, gravel & urban rides...


aaahhhhhh just like ...... for instance....... a mtb?


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Yeah, and quit showing up to cross races on those dumb gravel bikes


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Marty_99 said:


> Gravel Bikes are 100% not dumb.
> They're super practical. If I had to own 1 single bike it would be a gravel bike. You can get your groceries on it. You can ride singletrack on it. You can ride 169,000km on it. You can bikepack with it. It is the most bicycle out there.
> Luckily for me I don't have to own 1 single bike. I own n+1.


For reference, I just did a 3 hour road ride ride at 17 mph, got groceries last night, have commuted and ridden all of the Double blacks on my MTB.

Its slightly more practical than a gravel bike here.

Not everyone's single track can be ridden successfully on a gravel bike. 

Gravel bikes are more practical than road bikes for the majority of people who ride road bikes and don't race road. Im nit even sure how bad it would actually be with the right race wheelset. Marketing would probably tell us n+1 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Sparticus said:


> I have a gravel bike -- yes, they're dumb.
> This from a guy who lives in the PNW where there are 17,864,936 miles of gravel logging roads.
> I know the amount because I've ridden each & every mile. This explains how I know gravel bikes are dumb.
> Not a single mile of gravel is as good as an equal measure of singletrack.
> ...


Have you not noticed the E-bike forum?


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Train Wreck said:


> Yeah, and quit showing up to cross races on those dumb gravel bikes


Or vice-versa.


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

Baloney said:


> Gravel bikes are pointless in Europe. There is no gravel. There is tarmac or mud or so many rocks and trunks that you need suspension. Europe is not as desolate or dry as Usa or Australian outback so gravel bikes are pointless.
> 
> Get a road bike, cross bike or mtb. There is no place for gravel bikes in a region that is paved or wet.


You know the difference between a Cross Bike and a Gravel Bike? Not a whole hell of a lot.................


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

sxr-racer said:


> You know the difference between a Cross Bike and a Gravel Bike?


cross bikes don't carry water bottles


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

sxr-racer said:


> You know the difference between a Cross Bike and a Gravel Bike? Not a whole hell of a lot.................


But the differences are there and, to me, make a significant impact on my performance and comfort (depending on the duration of the ride or event).


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I've always thought that gravel bikes are what most people SHOULD be riding on the road, anyway.

A lot of manufacturers seem to be leaning this way lately, too, rather than considering "gravel" to be a totally different bike category. A lot of them are just making their road bikes a bit more comfortable on rougher surfaces and giving them more tire capacity.

My "gravel" bike is just a light touring bike from before "gravel" was really a category. When all I did was commute on it, I had it built up as a 1x9 with a rack and fenders and lights and all the commuting gear. When I trained for a century ride, I gave it wider range gearing (esp since the event I originally planned to do had some big climbs) and took the commuting stuff off for my event. I now live in a place where I don't commute by bike so I really only use the bike for day rides on gravel or gravel/pavement mix. So again, I took all the commute gear off. I've put on wider tires since I have more room without the fenders (and because the gravel surfaces I ride are easier to ride with bigger tires). I'm dropping the gearing to 46/30 (from 50/34) to suit the terrain better. Longer term, I'd like to put some lighter wheels on (current wheels are burly and heavy for carrying loads). Possibly even a different fork. Current one is QR and I've encountered some issues there a couple times over the years. I've had speed wobble with it back when I was commuting, and on rougher and softer gravel, I've felt it get flexy and squirrelly on me.

It's a super comfortable bike to ride on pavement. I won't be keeping up on an A level road group ride (I wouldn't be keeping up with those folks regardless of which bike I was riding), but I can ride no problem on whichever road surface I encounter, and even some trails.

Cross bikes are different. That's fine. They're meant for a particular style of race that requires some very specific things. They have some things in common with gravel bikes. But some notable differences specifically because of those race environments. That makes them versatile bikes that can do a lot of things. That's cool.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Harold said:


> I've always thought that gravel bikes are what most people SHOULD be riding on the road, anyway.


That is more or less my thoughts, too.

Here in the PNW most any gravel is heading up or down. If I were going to build myself a gravel specific bike I'd likely run a flat bar and choose the geo accordingly.

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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

WHALENARD said:


> That is more or less my thoughts, too.
> 
> Here in the PNW most any gravel is heading up or down. If I were going to build myself a gravel specific bike I'd likely run a flat bar and choose the geo accordingly.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


My bike of choice for the ride depends on the surfaces I'll be on.

A great many mtb rides where I live involve riding gravel. So I ride my flat bar mtb on gravel. I ride my road/gravel bike on gravel. But if the route includes singletrack, then the mtb is my bike of choice for absolute certain. If the route does not include singletrack but includes pavement, then out comes the road/gravel bike. If the route will be 100% gravel, then my decision becomes a bit more nuanced, depending on what the specific roads look like, how far I'll be riding, what other folks I might be riding with are riding (how fast they might be going), and so on.

My wife tried her hands at riding a drop bar cross/gravel bike for awhile. She liked it for long greenway rides and flat gravel, but like you, when the going gets steep, she strongly prefers flat bars. Just before covid hit, we were shopping around for her to replace her gravel bike with a hardtail mtb to use for gravel. Our plans were to keep it on the lighter xc side of things. We still plan to do so, but we spent most of the covid lockdowns building a bit of a reserve in case of financial instability. Especially since I lost work. Now bikes are a little harder to get, so I don't know yet when we'll finish out our plans of building her a bike.

I've got wider, flared drop bars on my bike that do the job for handling stability for me, so I'm good with my bike except for the few minor things I mentioned.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

WHALENARD said:


> That is more or less my thoughts, too.
> 
> Here in the PNW most any gravel is heading up or down. If I were going to build myself a gravel specific bike I'd likely run a flat bar and choose the geo accordingly.


My thoughts as well, tho I kinda went the other direction.

See, I don't ride my gravel bike on gravel -- that's what my mountain bike is for. (As you know, here in Oregon gravel roads lead to trailheads. Meaning: mountain bike territory.) No, I bought a gravel bike and put 32mm road tires on it -- presto, the ideal road bike for my type of road riding. Disc brakes, wide tires, appropriate gearing. Done. I'm not racing the thing.
=sParty


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Sparticus said:


> My thoughts as well, tho I kinda went the other direction.
> 
> See, I don't ride my gravel bike on gravel -- that's what my mountain bike is for. (As you know, here in Oregon gravel roads lead to trailheads. Meaning: mountain bike territory.) No, I bought a gravel bike and put 32mm road tires on it -- presto, the ideal road bike for my type of road riding. Disc brakes, wide tires, appropriate gearing. Done. I'm not racing the thing.
> =sParty


I think If I lived in the coast range I'd entertain the idea of a gravel, gravel/touring bike. Though it may likely end up looking like a mtn bike with skinnier tires, not sure. In theory I would enjoy this in shoulder season through spring but seeing as how I don't live in the coast range nor own said bike, who knows. There are endless upon endless miles out there though so the idea, at least, is appealing.

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## Taroroot (Nov 6, 2013)

All bikes are dumb. The day bikes gain self-awareness and become smarter than me is they day I give up riding. It's bad enough it seems I'm trying to harm myself on them, I don't want them actively seeking to kill me!


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## GmanBikes (Mar 7, 2021)

Hmmm, should we jump down another bicycle industry rabbit hole in it's ploy to convince people they can design and manufacture a bike that is suitable for all cycling endeavors. My "gravel bike," 1974 Raleigh Super Course MK ll, l9, wheel base, Brooks saddle for some rear suspension relief, plenty of tire clearance for gravel conditions with long reach center pull brakes. Come on people, if you want to ride gravel and road you don't need to buy into another industry contrived fad, just grab a bike and go, plenty out of them out there and probably one in your garage will do!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

GmanBikes said:


> Hmmm, should we jump down another bicycle industry rabbit hole in it's ploy to convince people they can design and manufacture a bike that is suitable for all cycling endeavors. My "gravel bike," 1974 Raleigh Super Course MK ll, l9, wheel base, Brooks saddle for some rear suspension relief, plenty of tire clearance for gravel conditions with long reach center pull brakes. Come on people, if you want to ride gravel and road you don't need to buy into another industry contrived fad, just grab a bike and go, plenty out of them out there and probably one in your garage will do!


That Super Course makes for a great mountain bike too, also perfect for crit racing ;p


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## Taroroot (Nov 6, 2013)

GmanBikes said:


> Hmmm, should we jump down another bicycle industry rabbit hole in it's ploy to convince people they can design and manufacture a bike that is suitable for all cycling endeavors. My "gravel bike," 1974 Raleigh Super Course MK ll, l9, wheel base, Brooks saddle for some rear suspension relief, plenty of tire clearance for gravel conditions with long reach center pull brakes. Come on people, if you want to ride gravel and road you don't need to buy into another industry contrived fad, just grab a bike and go, plenty out of them out there and probably one in your garage will do!


Ride what you like. Applaud the industry for trying new things, it fuels progress. Otherwise we'd still be riding penny farthings in the dirt/gravel. Can now find a good selection of variety of tires in various sizes to suit terrain and tastes. New component groups with nice little touches.
Yes, I ride a "gravel" bike, it has 2.1" wide tires, dropper post, hydraulic disc brakes, electronic shifting. I ride it on road and singletrack, not much accessable gravel here. I have fun.


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## GmanBikes (Mar 7, 2021)

Whatever puts butts on saddles works for me!


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## TooManyStandards (Jan 11, 2021)

Gravel means gravel pathways right...or backroads that have well defined and packed down grooves...I wouldn't think skinny tires would do well on road with a few inch deep of stone.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

TooManyStandards said:


> Gravel means gravel pathways right...or backroads that have well defined and packed down grooves...I wouldn't think skinny tires would do well on road with a few inch deep of stone.


when we ride, it is mostly harder packed fire road type stuff, but we do hit areas where the gravel is looser, and deeper, and I don't know how my one freind rides with his skinnier tires. He has a Trek FX4 and it never phases him

I use my Surly Krampus, so I am not worried about anything I encounter really; the third guy uses a Santa Cruz Chameleon 27.5er


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

TooManyStandards said:


> Gravel means gravel pathways right...or backroads that have well defined and packed down grooves...I wouldn't think skinny tires would do well on road with a few inch deep of stone.


No, gravel comes in as many forms as MTB trails.

Clay, wet clay mud, Sand, decomposed granite, river stone, caleche limestone, baby heads, big pot holes, etc. just depends on the route and part of the country. There are Some gravel roads cars would struggle with. At the extreme, there are some that you can beat an ATV on a bike. 

People have been racing skinny tires on baby heads and deep stone since before mountain bikes existed...professionally.

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## zapotec (Jul 21, 2020)

I think gravel is not dumb per se, but I think it rather was response because of high end XC / hardtail with high speed gearing is declining or totally extinct since 1x is introduced...




















The setup above is basically 2010-2013-ish style, just minus drop bars, still my daily driver because it was more practical with everything I throw at.

With 42 or 44 front chainring, I can l comfortably speeding on the tarmac / gravel at 30km/h average, not too slow, not too fast, just perfect without over spinning the crank, sometimes I am able to overtake slow roadies on the road.

And the good bit I can still enjoyed up to blue trails with this machine....if I have enough balls I might try to give it chance on the diamond/black level trails haha, just be careful with line I am picking and choosing the landing spot.

Oh I forgot that's still ancient (_now unpopular)_ 26 inch machine, nimble and quick response especially acceleration is my cup of tea.


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## NoCanSurf (Feb 19, 2021)

J.B. Weld said:


> Why?


*Yes. "Why", indeed?! * As everyone knows there is nothing more anyone could possibly want than the original Safety Bike! _There have been no improvement, nor will there be any improvement of worth or note since 1893._ The pinnacle of the all bicycle past and future! Look at it in all its divine beauty, ideal in concept and execution! Yes, sir, you'd be a fool to think there could be more to this biking business than *the safety bike*! What next a flying machine? 









And to all those holdover still riding their dirty, grumpy penny-farthing you can soak your collect heads in the river!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

NoCanSurf said:


> *Yes. "Why", indeed?! * As everyone knows there is nothing more anyone could possibly want than the original Safety Bike! _There have been no improvement, nor will there be any improvement of worth or note since 1893._ The pinnacle of the all bicycle past and future! Look at it in all its divine beauty, ideal in concept and execution! Yes, sir, you'd be a fool to think there could be more to this biking business than *the safety bike*! What next a flying machine?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Like 'gravel' bikes are adding or innovating anything LOL.
There's nothing new about them except marketing. 

Seems to me that all it would take for a whole bunch of people to start believing safety bikes are the latest and greatest new thing would be a catchy new moniker for them. 
I mean, look how well that's working for 'gravel' bikes.
And don't forget that mullets and biopace are back too.


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

It is a marketing move designed to sell more bikes. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever. The dumb thing is the belief that the new category is the only way to ride. It is akin to SUVs vs minivans, simply a different configuration of people haulers.

Drop bars, however, are completely wrong. What is the point of multiple hand positions if every one is incorrect?😝


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

I hear ya. Same goes for enduro and trail bikes. Please...they're just mountain bikes with fancy monikers.
Nothing new to see here.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

slapheadmofo said:


> Like 'gravel' bikes are adding or innovating anything LOL.
> There's nothing new about them except marketing.



Yes, today's gravel bikes are exactly the same as that 1893 Victor flyer. Also they're identical to road bikes, mountain bikes, cyclocross bikes, etc. 🙄


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> Yes, today's gravel bikes are exactly the same as that 1893 Victor flyer. Also they're identical to road bikes, mountain bikes, cyclocross bikes, etc. 🙄


Because cruising dirt roads requires so much highly specialized equipment.
Just ask your local bike shop sales team, they'll tell you all about it.
Get yourself a new 'downcountry' bike while you're at it.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I have a gravel bike.
It’s a road bike with enough room for wide tires.
Oh, plus it’s outfitted with a stealth dropper. 
Meanwhile for actually riding on gravel, please hand me my mountain bike, thank you.
=sParty


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## Driverfound337 (Sep 1, 2008)

J.B. Weld said:


> Why?


I grave bike on my mountain bike, I don’t have enough income to “need” a gravel bike, I get along just fine but after 5-20 miles I’m super bored around the Phoenix valley.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Driverfound337 said:


> I grave bike on my mountain bike, I don’t have enough income to “need” a gravel bike, I get along just fine but after 5-20 miles I’m super bored around the Phoenix valley.



A lot of people downhill on their xc bike, or vise versa. Or ride their mountain bike on the road. Or ride their gravel bikes on singletrack. 

I don't think anyone is trying to say they're highly innovative, they're just another sub- category of bikes. Seems so dumb to argue about it but here I am 🙄


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> A lot of people downhill on their xc bike, or vise versa. Or ride their mountain bike on the road. Or ride their gravel bikes on singletrack.


Downhill and XC actually "require" a petty high degree of equipment specialization.
Dirt road cruising doesn't.
"Gravel bikes" are the Biggus Dickus of bike categories; most people get the joke, but there's always a few out there....


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## BALE (Oct 10, 2019)

For the skiers out there, I think a good analogy is “Nordic touring” skis with fish scales and metal edges. They can go anywhere , but aren’t particularly good at anything, (they don’t climb or glide worth a damn, but are nice for long, rolling tours.) Give me a real mtb and a real road bike. Also, when does “gravel” become “rock”, because anybody with tires under like 2” is gonna suffer on the FS roads near me. 
My point is that gravel bikes are marketed as go-anywhere, do-anything machines, while I consider them a very niche product, like a fat bike.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

slapheadmofo said:


> Downhill and XC actually "require" a petty high degree of equipment specialization.



Actually not. I've ridden lift served downhill runs on a rigid xc bike. Seen plenty of folks riding xc races on Enduro/ trail bikes which are very capable downhillers. So not a "requirement".


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> Actually not. I've ridden lift served downhill runs on a rigid xc bike. Seen plenty of folks riding xc races on Enduro/ trail bikes which are very capable downhillers. So not a "requirement".





https://grammarfactory.com/grammar-goodies/use-quotation-marks-like-an-expert/


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

JeeZ, and now a grammar nazi


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> JeeZ, and now a grammar nazi


Nope. That would be an endless (and hopeless) battle here. 

But you obviously didn't understand how I used them in my post, so I figured you might want to brush up
Let me know if you get it now or still need further explanation. I can dumb it down.


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

I have a gravel bike and love it. Dont care how it came to be, dont care what its meant for, dont care what it supposedly can or cant do. Love it cuz it puts a smile on my face when Im riding it..on gravel, tarmac, fire road, neighbor’s lawn, doesnt matter.


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## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

I built this bike about 8 years ago. Have 2 wheel sets one with road tires and one with cyclocross. I’ve ridden many miles and several races. Not a fan of drop bars,but I love this bike!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

slapheadmofo said:


> Nope. That would be an endless (and hopeless) battle here.
> 
> But you obviously didn't understand how I used them in my post, so I figured you might want to brush up
> Let me know if you get it now or still need further explanation. I can dumb it down.




Yes, could you pleese "do" that for me?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Guys, this has been entertaining.
But I stepped back for a moment to look at the big picture and in so doing, realized something.
No bikes are dumb.
Carry on.
=sParty


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> Yes, could you pleese "do" that for me?


On second thought, there's a limit on how much things can be dumbed down. 
You're just going to have to remain in the dark on this one.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

I find these discussions so absurd. The people who want to rant about gravel bikes are people that don't actually like riding gravel. So of course you don't think there is a need for a gravel bike. My preferred style of riding is "gravel" riding. I have been doing it since before it had a name, we used to just call it "riding your bike". It meant leaving your front door and going on an epic ride that would hit pavement, gravel, jeep trails, doubletrack, singletrack, in other words any surface you happen to run across. It meant we had to cobble together a bike to do these rides, because before gravel bikes there really wasn't a suitable bike. Cyclocross bikes are super stiff, used to only fit 33c tires and had rim brakes , people tend to forget that they simply weren't that much fun to ride on anything but the smoothest offroad surfaces. Cyclocross bikes have discs now and can fit larger tires because people want to use them for gravel. So please stop with the "gravel bikes are just cyclocross bikes." In reality cyclocross bikes have been morphed in to gravel bikes, just check out the Specialized Cruz. There weren't even any high performance 40c tires before gravel bikes, that size emerged when gravel bikes began to be made. Now there is a huge choice of awesome gravel tires up to 50mm and even larger. Mountain bikes are heavy, put you in an upright un-aero position and are slow as crap on the road and gravel sections. Now I don't have to make some kind of Frankenstein bike, because they make gravel bikes. I am not sure how anyone who is into biking can be so upset that a bike company makes bikes that help people to get out and ride. If thats you, then you might want to take a good long look at yourself and ask why you are angry that other people are out enjoying riding a bike. The last time I looked, no bike company has forced anyone to buy a bike. There are all kinds of bikes I have no interest in (hybrids, tandems, fat bikes, downhill bikes) but why would I get all worked up over the fact that they exist. If people are out there riding and having fun then thats awesome no matter what bike they are on. I don't care what kind of bike you want to ride, maybe you shouldn't worry so much about what I (and others) want to ride.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Yup.... gravel bikes are dumb. No one buys them. No one rides them. There is no industry support. No races. No interest. No off-pavement riding that isn't mountain biking. A complete flop.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

So if all you need is a road bike or a mountain bike, which one do you take for a ride linking 10-15 miles of tarmac out into the country, some mushy crushed limestone rail trail, very steep rutted gravel roads, a few dirt/mud double tracks with creek crossings, and 10-15 miles of tarmac back into a stiff headwind? One bike will do it all with ease but it’s neither the road nor MTB, it’s a gravel bike.

I’ve done fast road rides on my gravel bike that you‘d never consider on a MTB as well as fire roads and easy single track you’d never ride on a road bike. With a gravel bike you can head out to ride whatever roads or paths seem interesting, making it up as you wander.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

ljsmith said:


> I have been doing it since before it had a name, we used to just call it "riding your bike". It meant leaving your front door and going on an epic ride that would hit pavement, gravel, jeep trails, doubletrack, singletrack, in other words any surface you happen to run across.


25 years ago my biking buddy shiggy & I did those kinds of rides — we called it ‘adventure biking.’



ljsmith said:


> It meant we had to cobble together a bike to do these rides, because before gravel bikes there really wasn't a suitable bike.


Not to be disagreeable, but the bikes shiggy & I used back then weren’t gravel bikes (since gravel bikes didn’t exist) and yet we found the bikes we rode to be quite suitable. Like yours, ours were cobbled together. IIRC mine might have been a Trek 750 equipped with 45mm Panaracer Smoke tires.
=sParty


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## BALE (Oct 10, 2019)

Mtb with fast tires. Lose a bit on the tarmac, gain substantially on the rest. 


Dkayak said:


> So if all you need is a road bike or a mountain bike, which one do you take for a ride linking 10-15 miles of tarmac out into the country, some mushy crushed limestone rail trail, very steep rutted gravel roads, a few dirt/mud double tracks with creek crossings, and 10-15 miles of tarmac back into a stiff headwind?


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

Mtb with fast tires you’re gonna lose more than a bit on 20-30 miles of tarmac. You’re also not going to “gain substantially” on anything but the mud. Have you ridden a modern gravel bike or just basing this on assumption?


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

BALE said:


> Mtb with fast tires. Lose a bit on the tarmac, gain substantially on the rest.


Loose huge on tarmac unless you have drop bars. I’m 66 could drop 90% of riders on a MTB on tarmac. No contest. Wind resistance increases exponentially with speed. And once you go with those fast tires, you have no advantage on the other terrain. Theres a reason nobody races gravel on a MTB. They’d finish WAY far back.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Try winning Unbound Gravel on a mountain bike. Or a road bike.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

J.B. Weld said:


> Try winning Unbound Gravel on a mountain bike. Or a road bike.


Or even finishing in the top 50%. Good luck with either.


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## BALE (Oct 10, 2019)

Look, anyone who has ridden both knows that a mountain bike on the road is infinitely better than vice versa. If you want to buy twenty sub-genres of bicycles, go for it. At the end of the day, I’m with Sparty in that anything with two wheels is fine by me😁


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## BALE (Oct 10, 2019)

Hey guys, no hating here. I actually considered a gravel bike when I was looking at racing Crusher in the Tushars. I just don’t “need” one right now😉


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

For trails like these..give me a gravel bike all day, every day. This is 5 miles from my front door. With a gravel bike, I can ride there, zip through 8 miles of smooth trails, hop back on the road, and ride another 30 miles with a headwind to the beach. Cant do that with a roadie and no way in hell im doing that with a mtb, doesnt matter what tires you have on it. Sure you can do it, you can also wipe your behind with cardboard, doesnt make it a good idea.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Gravel bikes are just a modern version of the Specialized RockCombo. I've ridden the rigid+ MTB I had on the road, but the gearing on my gravel bike is better for that duty. The mtb was 1x NX 32t 11-42t setup while my gravel bike is 2x GRX 50/34 11-40t setup. Just gearing alone makes it nicer on the road & since it's a lighter bike climbs were just as easy. Many of the new mtbs aren't setup to go 2x, which can be nice on the road.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> A lot of people downhill on their xc bike, or vise versa. Or ride their mountain bike on the road. Or ride their gravel bikes on singletrack.
> 
> I don't think anyone is trying to say they're highly innovative, they're just another sub- category of bikes. Seems so dumb to argue about it but here I am 🙄


Many folks can't handle the specialization of the industry and see it purely as a money grab. They must still be using their '98 GT Zaskars for the west coast enduro series. 

I do think gravel bikes are innovative and continue to evolve. There are differences to them that make the experience better than using a road, mtn or bmx bike in those conditions.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

slapheadmofo said:


> Downhill and XC actually "require" a petty high degree of equipment specialization.
> Dirt road cruising doesn't.
> "Gravel bikes" are the Biggus Dickus of bike categories; most people get the joke, but there's always a few out there....


But....we used to ride and race downhill on our xc bikes. Were we wrong??


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Crankout said:


> But....we used to ride and race downhill on our xc bikes. Were we wrong??


Nope. You can't really ride 'wrong' IMO. 
I've done that plenty of times, as well as trail ridden 'freeride' and DJ bikes, taken 'trail' bikes on pavement, etc, etc.
But it's not like we were inventing some new category of riding.


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

So a “DJ” or “Trail” bike is an acceptable “category” but gravel is not?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

rtonthat said:


> So a “DJ” or “Trail” bike is an acceptable “category” but gravel is not?




Correct.


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

Thanks! I had it all wrong!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yes.

Next question: Why did you feel the need to ask a question we all knew the answer too?


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yes.
> 
> Next question: Why did you feel the need to ask a question we all knew the answer too?


Sure. Is a hotdog a sandwich or a weird taco?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

rtonthat said:


> So a “DJ” or “Trail” bike is an acceptable “category” but gravel is not?


DJ is unique.
Gravel is just easy MTB. 

I personally would roll a number of other silly marketing department subcategories into 'trail', or even just go back calling it all 'cross country' unless you get on a lift.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Downcountry FTW


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> Downcountry FTW


🤪

I know a certain crew around here who coined 'cross-stuntery' for their style. 
Totally deserves a new sub-forum and a marketing department to capitalize on it.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Don't know if it's been covered, but if your gravel bike has AXS or Di2, wouldn't it be a "smart" bike?

(What does it say that I read that very quickly and did not read it as "cross-STuntery," but something infinitely more vulgar 😬 )


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

slapheadmofo said:


> DJ is unique.
> Gravel is just easy MTB.
> 
> I personally would roll a number of other silly marketing department subcategories into 'trail', or even just go back calling it all 'cross country' unless you get on a lift.


i agree gravel = easy MTB, + road. I could argue that DJ is unique, but can be done with a non DJ specific bike.
At the end of the day, who actually GAF….ride what you have, eat hotdog sandwich tacos, and let people enjoy their things.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

rtonthat said:


> Sure. Is a hotdog a sandwich or a weird taco?


Definitely a taco


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

Gravel bikes are just improved road bikes for me.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

smartyiak said:


> (What does it say that I read that very quickly and did not read it as "cross-STuntery," but something infinitely more vulgar 😬 )


And not entirely inaccurate.


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## Taroroot (Nov 6, 2013)

I ride downgravel. Yes I occasionally ride my gravel/cross bike on our local DH trails for SnG.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Taroroot said:


> I ride downgravel. Yes I occasionally ride my gravel/cross bike on our local DH trails for SnG.


Someone needs to make a dedicated LLS downgravel bike, stat!
And a new subforum!


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

rtonthat said:


> Sure. Is a hotdog a sandwich or a weird taco?


I’ve seen a weird taco and it’s not that.
Tho it had a hot dog in it.
Must be a samwitch.
=sParty

P.S. Downgravel … I love it but consider this: gravelcross


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

Not bad, but perhaps something with a little more “send it” vibe…..I give you…….GRAILDURO


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

If I you took a 'gravel' bike and only rode it on grass, would lawncountry become a riding style? 
Manufacturers could sell new specialized bikes that consisted of their exisiting 'gravel' bikes but with bar mounted drink holders, so they would actually be a totally new and different thing.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)




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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

chazpat said:


> View attachment 1973914


No drink holder, therefore, not legit.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

chazpat said:


> View attachment 1973914


Is that a Dear John?


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

Here’s a pretty balanced look (ignore the title and listen). It just depends on the mix of terrain.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

slapheadmofo said:


> No drink holder, therefore, not legit.


There's still room for the analogous drink-holder off-country bike.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Dkayak said:


> Here’s a pretty balanced look (ignore the title and listen). It just depends on the mix of terrain.


"Really rugged doubletrack"
"Rocky descent"
"the grav-grav"


Conclusion - 'gravel' bikes are better on pavement.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

Conclusion: If you want to take a wandering ride with a mix all sorts of double track from dirt to gravel to pavement, nothing will keep up with a gravel bike. They’re no more suited for single track than a MTB is suited for paved roads.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

l went on my Gravel bike today










ok....its also my snow bike, mud bike, downhill bike, wheelie bike


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

cmg said:


> l went on my Gravel bike today
> 
> View attachment 1974555
> 
> ...


You can’t do that. 
Not allowed. 
=sParty


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Sparticus said:


> You can’t do that.
> Not allowed.
> =sParty


you sound like my wife


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

cmg said:


> l went on my Gravel bike today
> 
> View attachment 1974555
> 
> ...



Well that proves it, gravel bikes are dumb.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

I'm planning to enter a 120-mile gravel race using my DH bike. That way, I can assure my own comfort for 11 hours of riding. 

Well, make that 13 hours.


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## DoneyParker (9 mo ago)

VTSession said:


> No, quite the opposite.
> 
> I built a gravel bike recently from an older steel MTB hardtail. Why? I live in Vermont and we have amazing trails but those amazing trails take time to dry after the snowy winter. I've got a month or two of decent spring weather but can't get ride the trails. What to do? Explore hundreds of miles of empty, scenic and quiet dirt roads right out my front door.
> 
> ...


In the nineties rented nishiki touring bikes..Rode from Newport Vt to Magog Quebec on dirt roads did over a hundred miles and had a blast.So i guess gravel bikes are cool


VTSession said:


> No, quite the opposite.
> 
> I built a gravel bike recently from an older steel MTB hardtail. Why? I live in Vermont and we have amazing trails but those amazing trails take time to dry after the snowy winter. I've got a month or two of decent spring weather but can't get ride the trails. What to do? Explore hundreds of miles of empty, scenic and quiet dirt roads right out my front door.
> 
> ...





VTSession said:


> No, quite the opposite.
> 
> I built a gravel bike recently from an older steel MTB hardtail. Why? I live in Vermont and we have amazing trails but those amazing trails take time to dry after the snowy winter. I've got a month or two of decent spring weather but can't get ride the trails. What to do? Explore hundreds of miles of empty, scenic and quiet dirt roads right out my front door.
> 
> ...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Yeah, kinda, they tend to get hooked on my handlebars.


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