# Longer stem on a downhill bike?



## kuksul08 (Oct 8, 2006)

I've got a medium VP Free, and I'm 6ft tall. It feels good downhill, but I tend to hit my knees on the bars while leaning forward pedaling. It just feels kinda cramped in the 'cockpit'.

Here is a screenshot I took from a little video I had, so you can see how the size of the bike compares to my size. So, before I proceed, does it look too small for me? In my opinion, I'm right on the edge...

Which brings me to ask, is it common to put a longer stem on? What are the Pros and Cons of doing this, and which one would you recommend? I currently have a raceface diabolus, with pretty much no rise, and no length to it.

I should mention that I don't do solely downhill, in fact I also do XC type riding since this is my only real mountain bike. It has some 1.5" riser bars and the stock 888R riser crowns, but I have it at the 'Min' mark on the stanchions... kinda weird.

Thanks


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

65mm is the longest I would go for a DH stem. Sunline makes a nice one (the V-1 All Mountain) that I ran on my Medium SX Trail.

I would get some wider bars if I were you, something like Sunlines, Deity Dirty 30s, or Spank 777s to spread things out a bit up front and get your torso lower.


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## slothoncanvas (Mar 6, 2007)

From the looks of that picture, it looks like you've got about a 45mm stem on there. maybe even shorter. It looks very tight.

How serious are you getting with the downhill? Because If you think you can run an AM stem, you could go up to 90mm. I would never put a longer stem than that on a downhill bike though.

70mm would probably make a pretty big difference to what you have though. Race Face makes the Evolve DH in 70mm length. and that's a true downhill stem. click on that and it'll take you to Jenson, they have them on there in that length.

And yeah i'd go for some wider bars too.


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## k1creeker (Jul 30, 2005)

kuksol08,

I'm 6'0" as well and run a RaceFace D2 stem at 70mm and zero rise. This provides better balance front to back (for me) and was a drastic change from the 45mm stem I originally mounted. 70mm is the longest you'll find in the DH specific category. You could go to a 90mm XC stem. If you go this route I highly recommend something cold forged and not CNC'd.

Since this is your do it all bike (all the more reason to run a 70mm-90mm stem), you might want to consider a seatpost with some setback too. You look pretty cramped in the picture.

Best of luck!


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## kuksul08 (Oct 8, 2006)

Thanks for the input. I found this picture of the stem:










*Ojai *- Right now my bars are 27" wide with 1.5" rise. I have always liked the dirty30 bars. Will the extra 1.5" on each side make a big difference?

*slothoncanvas* - I think I want to keep the bike very versatile, but still more downhillish, since I sometimes do some pretty steep and technical downhill. I will check out those stems as well though.

*k1creeker *- I think I may look into a 70mm stem, and keeping it a beefy component. I hadn't considered a setback seatpost. I still like to be able to slam it down as much as possible.

Once again thanks for the input, and thanks in advance for any more.

edit: Just checked it out, mine is only 35mm. The 70mm looks like it will open it up nicely, and I'm digging the D2.


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## Clutchman83 (Apr 16, 2006)

Dude, rock the 70mm, looks like you're driving a bug in your pic. I don't think it would adversely affect the handling if you factor in the benefit of opening up the cockpit, might even help you with weighting the front end a little better. I think it would be a win-win for you.


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## kuksul08 (Oct 8, 2006)

Clutchman83 said:


> Dude, rock the 70mm, looks like you're driving a bug in your pic. I don't think it would adversely affect the handling if you factor in the benefit of opening up the cockpit, might even help you with weighting the front end a little better. I think it would be a win-win for you.


For sure, I love the feeling of my commuter bike, and realized it's because the stem lets me put more weight over the front... which is great for weight distribution. This bike feels kinda like a chopper sometimes.

So.... anyone want to buy a stem and bars?  How much should I try to sell them for? Both pretty much perfect condition... bars were $150 new and stem was like $70 to $80 new.


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

Wider bars will make a HUGE difference IMO. Anything between 28-30" is good for the 6'+ crowd.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

get a large


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## ncossey (Aug 26, 2008)

I like wide bars, it just makes you work harder to clear the tight turns. But overall you have more room to rock forward, and you can breathe better because wider bars forces you to spread your hands out, which opens up your chest and lets you breathe. Also makes it easier to pull the bike up when you need too.


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## kuksul08 (Oct 8, 2006)

Any more input on the frame size maybe? I have heard some say a dh bike should be on the smaller side, but idk.


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## Clutchman83 (Apr 16, 2006)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> get a large


But he's got a medium. Don't hate. Help him out. Longer stem is good in his case.

Granted a larger frame would be better, agree on that.


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## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

yea you should probably be riding a large size frame


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## DHgnaR (Feb 20, 2008)

That bike looks tiny under you.... a longer stem will help a little, but IMO you need a bigger bike.


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## santaheckler (Jan 31, 2004)

You don't hit your knees on the fork at all?


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

you look like you stole some little kids bike! you cant bandaid a frame thats too small.


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## kuksul08 (Oct 8, 2006)

Haha actually I think I have hit my knees on the fork. I don't know, I don't really want to sell it right now unless there is a super sweet deal of some sort. Here are a couple more pics to hopefully show the proportions from different positions.


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## freeriderB (Jan 9, 2004)

Small world...I'm 6 Feet and I ride a medium Free too.
I actually run a 65mm Easton (havoc?) DH stem with a 6 or 10 degree rise. Plus I am running an Easton Havoc seatpost which actually has a Layback offset slightly larger than the Thomson.
Both of these components make the cockpit much more comfortable compared to any 45mm direct mount stem.
I really don't think you need to trade up to a Large.


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## dascro (Apr 1, 2007)

I'm 6'2'' and usually ride a large frame. I prefer a pretty long cockpit on all my bikes so I'm more comfortable using a larger cockpit on my DH bike too obviously. I've gone between 65mm and 90mm and never had any trouble. Get a burly stem and find what is most comfortable. As long as you can still maneuver on the bike and get behind the seat etc, you're good!


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## neverwalk (May 14, 2005)

Seriously, get the 70mm stem, and try it out before you do anything like selling your current stem and bars. Also, slide the saddle back as far in the seatpost's rail clamps as you can, before getting a layback post. 
If those two relatively simple changes don't make it feel better, _then_ start to think about frame size.


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## supercub (May 5, 2008)

Get an integrated stem, they stiffen the front end up alot. I think they come in 65mm


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## ncossey (Aug 26, 2008)

dude you look like you could be bucked at any time. You never want to go smaller rather than bigger on any bike that you are gonna be doing any type of aggressive riding on. The smaller the bike, the easier you go over the bars, unless you have a dj/park bike, then your long top tube, and short chainstay keep the bike under you. But as far as a dh/fr bike, hell no dude you need to go bigger.


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## rocketmatt17 (Sep 10, 2007)

get a longer stem and an offset seatpost. i had the same issue with my bullit


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## kuksul08 (Oct 8, 2006)

ncossey said:


> dude you look like you could be bucked at any time. You never want to go smaller rather than bigger on any bike that you are gonna be doing any type of aggressive riding on. The smaller the bike, the easier you go over the bars, unless you have a dj/park bike, then your long top tube, and short chainstay keep the bike under you. But as far as a dh/fr bike, hell no dude you need to go bigger.


bigger... stem or frame?

I just asked a couple friends, 60-70mm isn't unheard of at all. I'm going to try to test one out before spending $40 on a new stem.

Thansk for the input


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## k1creeker (Jul 30, 2005)

kuksul08,
Don't sweat the negative comments on frame size. Lots of guys run their DH bikes a size small.
Try the stem and freeriderB's excellent suggestion on the Havoc seatpost first. This may be the ticket for you without dropping a couple grand on a new frame. :thumbsup:


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## milkmanmarce (Nov 9, 2006)

Another option is the 70mm Race Face Atlas AM stem. Strong enough for DH (I only ride the Shore and Whistler), but pretty light too (172g for the 70mm). I'm 6ft on a med Cove frame. The 70mm Atlas stem feels and looks great.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

6'1"ish on a medium Wildcard. Its small but I got it specificaly to go more into the jump dirrection. I run a 65 Eastern Havoc but I have considered a 50mm Thomson. When I ride I just cant see running a smaller than 65mm stem helping. I would be cramped and over the bars alot. If I could buy the frame again I would probably have gone with a large and run a 50mm stem. But the bike is rediculously nimble. I may go up to 70mm for versatility as I alos do milage rides, or try to once a week. I say a 70mm for you would really help.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Dont sweat it , my nicolai is a medium and Im 6'3" then again its my freeride bike and Im putting a 70mm on it. I rocked it at hurkey creek adn aside of trying to dial the suspension in it was a blast.
My DH is a large but the top tubes are only 1" or less difference and the ST to BB is a little bigger on the jedi but alot of that is because its design is low slung for steeps.

Rock the medium and try a larger stem, I sold a chumba evo that was a med that was supposed to be my freeride rig, it was too cramped and tall.

Id do some DH races on the nicolai as well as drops and gnar trails without a problem. 

Good luck!


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## mr. welcorn (May 14, 2006)

According to SC there is only a 0.8" difference in tt between a M and L, you should easily be able to get the bike feeling comfortable with an offset post and a slightly longer stem. I'm 6'4" and my frame only has a 23" tt... I run a 25mm layback post to make the tt 24" effective. The post I am using doesn't have a "kink" in it like the thomson, so I can still slam the post for the down. FWIW, I swap between a sunline V1 all mountain 80mm (for longer rides), and a sunline 50mm DH stem for DH. I my old bike had a 24.5" tt and I actually like the shorter tt, smaller cockpit, for DH. 
cheers
Ohh and +1 for wider bars.....diety or sunline


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## BPSarge (Oct 9, 2007)

I'm 6' 1 and had a med free and loved the bike with a 50m stem. After I sold it I rode on a Large free and it felt like I was sitting on my large Nomad. realy comfortable.

Put a single crown fork on it! You wont hit your knees! lol

good luck


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## kuksul08 (Oct 8, 2006)

Thanks for all the input! I will report back after I get/try some parts and hopefully its better


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## kuksul08 (Oct 8, 2006)

One more quick question. Is no rise or the 10 degree rise usually more desirable? I know its very little difference, but if I have to sell it, I'd like the more common one I guess.


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## Jettj45 (Jul 25, 2004)

wear knee pads


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## kuksul08 (Oct 8, 2006)

Jettj45 said:


> wear knee pads


rft: I thought no one would notice...hehe. I know, I should be wearing them. I wear them about half the time, just so happens that I didn't in any of those pics. I usually wear them when I'm going on a serious ride and not just messing around. Yeah I know... that's when you get most hurt. I'll be wearing them in the future all the time, they're just kinda beefy for xc-type riding.


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## Djponee (Dec 20, 2006)

well, it could be worse. i'm 6'3" and have to ride a damn medium yakuza. but i got a longer stem thats 65mm and has a rise and it helped out a lot.


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## clockwork (Dec 9, 2006)

What about moving the seat back or getting a setback plus a bit longer stem.


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## kuksul08 (Oct 8, 2006)

clockwork said:


> What about moving the seat back or getting a setback plus a bit longer stem.


I don't see how the seat will make any difference actually. I'm not even sitting on the seat in the picture, and I always hit my knees when I am standing up and pedaling. Sitting down is fine.

I think I decided on the truvativ holzfeller 60mm stem. It's pretty cheap, forged aluminum too. I just hope 60mm will be enough to make a worthwhile difference. My other bike (which feels really good) has a 90mm stem hehe.

https://jensonusa.com/store/product/ST308A11-Truvativ+Holzfeller+Mountain+Stem.aspx


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## juanbeegas (Oct 1, 2007)

You might be more comfortable with a 70mm D2 - http://jensonusa.com/store/product/ST309A02-Race+Face+Diabolus+D2+Stem+08.aspx
Yes, it's almost double the price, but seems like you could use the extra real estate from your pic.


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## kuksul08 (Oct 8, 2006)

juanbeegas said:


> You might be more comfortable with a 70mm D2 - http://jensonusa.com/store/product/ST309A02-Race+Face+Diabolus+D2+Stem+08.aspx
> Yes, it's almost double the price, but seems like you could use the extra real estate from your pic.


I have read plenty of so-so reviews about that stem unfortunately.

I'm still looking at options, if anyone has more opinions on specific stems, I guess 70mm is best, price range around $30-40 preferrably, weight doesn't really matter, but the appearance and quality do.


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## milkmanmarce (Nov 9, 2006)

What kind of so-so reviews? The D2 is one of the strongest stems out there. It might be a bit of overkill for what you need...Check out the RF Evolve DH stem for a cheaper, bombproof option....Jenson has them in a 70mm


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## tls36 (Dec 10, 2005)

70mm for sure, works for climbing and DH. I ran a 90mm on my AM rig and it was pretty twitchy on techy DH stuff and high speed stuff as well. I like my frames on the slightly smaller side. My friend is probably the best FRer in Arizona and he runs tthe 70mm D2 BTW we are both 6 feet tall as is he. Good luck.


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## kuksul08 (Oct 8, 2006)

milkmanmarce said:


> What kind of so-so reviews? The D2 is one of the strongest stems out there. It might be a bit of overkill for what you need...Check out the RF Evolve DH stem for a cheaper, bombproof option....Jenson has them in a 70mm


http://www.mtbr.com/cat/controls/Stem/race-face/d2-diabolus-dh/PRD_418203_149crx.aspx

It's hard to tell from those 3 reviews. Any mention of creaks just kinda freaks me out... it's incredibly annoying.

I have checked out the evolve too, it looks okay. So many options!


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## milkmanmarce (Nov 9, 2006)

Fair enough, but I know 5 different people on this stem and there's not one issue. I've never seen any stem creak (it's always a steer tube /headset issue) so I'd take the top revew with a grain of salt. 
The D2 might be a bit pricey for you anyway. Look into the Evolve DH for the best bang for your buck. Jenson has 'em for around $40


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

If this issue could mean getting a new frame then spending $ on a couple stem makes good sense to me - I don't understand why so much thought has to be put into trying a different stem, should be part of any tuning regiment.


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## kuksul08 (Oct 8, 2006)

keen said:


> If this issue could mean getting a new frame then spending $ on a couple stem makes good sense to me - I don't understand why so much thought has to be put into trying a different stem, should be part of any tuning regiment.


haha, yeah it's simple I just like to get everyone's opinion. Plus finding the right price for a college budget is useful.

I think I will go with the D2 70mm 0 rise since it's $50 on jenson now which is pretty cheap compared to msrp.


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## AL29er (Jan 14, 2004)

Gotta ride what is comfortable. I have never been able to get comfortable on the super short stems or medium frames. I am 6'3" and even a large SC bike is fairly short. Shortest stem I have ever gotten along with was a 75mm. Typically I run a 90mm. I have run beefier 100mm stems as well. Once you get over 80-90mm in length there aren't a whole lot of options for DH-tough stems though.

Another option is multiple stems. Swap out to the stubby only for racing and shuttling. Keep the longer stem on for the rest of the time when you are pedaling. FWIW a vp isn't the best am rig, but if you can keep up on it then you are building some good strength :thumbsup:


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## KillerSloth (Apr 21, 2008)

kuksul08 said:


> I don't see how the seat will make any difference actually. I'm not even sitting on the seat in the picture, and I always hit my knees when I am standing up and pedaling. Sitting down is fine.
> 
> I think I decided on the truvativ holzfeller 60mm stem. It's pretty cheap, forged aluminum too. I just hope 60mm will be enough to make a worthwhile difference. My other bike (which feels really good) has a 90mm stem hehe.
> 
> https://jensonusa.com/store/product/ST308A11-Truvativ+Holzfeller+Mountain+Stem.aspx


Transition has that stem for sale for $14.

https://www.transitionbikes.com/Store/Detail.cfm?Token={ts_2009-04-14_15:24:20}-91270412&P=818

Or if you want to try a 75mm for cheap you could try this:

https://www.transitionbikes.com/Store/Detail.cfm?Token={ts_2009-04-14_15:24:20}-91270412&P=727

I don't know how strong it is, so you may not want to use it for long, but would be good to see if you even like it.


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## AKRida (Feb 26, 2004)

frame size is your preference, if your fine with your medium frame and want a bit more room try out the longer stem... i'm 6"3 ride a medium perp with a 50mm stem and love it, used to ride a large Yeti ASX and the smaller bike just feels all around better, but of course my Perp isn't my all arounder so no epic XC pedals~


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## xterrain (May 6, 2008)

Get a bigger frame. You'll be much happier on it.


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## kuksul08 (Oct 8, 2006)

So....yeah....

Why I waited so long to do this, I do not know. My knees have plenty of clearance, steering is more responsive, overall its more balanced feeling.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Looks good and yeah the extra bit in length makes a huge difference. 
Getting my 70mm tomorrow! :thumbsup: for the nicolai! Then its tear down and do a pimp build time!


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## danyiluska (Sep 20, 2006)

Good job! What about the seat? Can you push it backwards a bit?
By the way i'm 176cm (5.8 feet), and rockin' a S/M. Flickability is important.
Enjoy your ride!


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