# Ask Trail Ninja



## scottybinwv (Jun 29, 2010)

As a lurker on here for a while I am looking to start helping overtly or covertly the bike trail maintenance. I have some literature ordered online but have yet to receive it. I would like to enlist the veteran trail warriors to add their advise which many seem to do. 

I do have a background in building and maintaining ski trails but bikes are a tad different. I am hoping to be able to combine the two as a friend has extensive mountain property that is available for recreational development. We already have logging roads and many ski runs cut.

So without further ado I will post the first question.

Which trail tool gives one the most bang for the buck and is still portable via bike with a rear rack?


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## TrailMasonJones (Apr 24, 2011)

completly dependent on your terrain, rocky vrs lommy ect, ect, ect............ For my area if i had to pick just 1 to save from a tool shead fire i would grab my rogue hoe 60a







the pic is a new one mine has allot more character.


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

TrailMasonJones said:


> completly dependent on your terrain, rocky vrs lommy ect, ect, ect............ For my area if i had to pick just 1 to save from a tool shead fire i would grab my rogue hoe 60a...the pic is a new one mine has allot more character.


+1 on terrain dependent. I would choose a mattock like this but make sure it is light weight and strong, with a good hickory handle. Some mattock heads are made from metal which is too soft. Keeping both the cutting and digging blades sharp makes all the difference at the end of a hard day's work.


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## scottybinwv (Jun 29, 2010)

Yeah, these look good.

http://www.roguehoe.com/trailbuilding/trailbuilding.html

Found a forestry supply site and got a 70hr and a f50a for $90


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

scottybinwv said:


> As a lurker on here for a while I am looking to start helping overtly or covertly the bike trail maintenance. I have some literature ordered online but have yet to receive it. I would like to enlist the veteran trail warriors to add their advise which many seem to do.
> 
> I do have a background in building and maintaining ski trails but bikes are a tad different. I am hoping to be able to combine the two as a friend has extensive mountain property that is available for recreational development. We already have logging roads and many ski runs cut.
> 
> ...


I almost always go for the Rogue Hoe.

I had a lot of roots to cut this weekend and ended up taking a Pulaski. I damaged a tendon in my elbow recently and having the right tool made it much easier and less painful. Horses for courses?

Walt


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## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

+2 for the rogue hoe 60A, unbelievable tool.


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## ImaFred (May 16, 2009)

we custom made our hoe..
















course its not real friendly to carry but when your there it WORKS


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

First, a rear rack just does not let me carry what I need, depending on trail and work to be done. I just got a BOB trailer.

Tools:

Shovel
McLeod
Rogue Hoe
Pick Mattock
Hand Clippers
Loppers
Hand Saw
Dirt Tarp (3 x 4 feet with 6 handles made of cordura nylon)
Rock Bar
Power Weed Whip
Power Hedger
Pitch Fork
Rake
Fire Rake
Chain Saw


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Only one tool? No saw or anything else? A Pulaski.

A rogue hoe, an axe and a bow saw is the kit I would take for an easy ride in and it will do almost anything you need to do.

Of course whatever you take, you'll find you left the tool you need at home.

My most used set for digging is Pulaski (or axe/mattock depending on how tough the ground is), McLeod, Rogue Hoe, shovel. 

slocaus' set is pretty complete and a Bob is worth the money if you can afford one.


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## scottybinwv (Jun 29, 2010)

As a kayaker running small steep creeks I have a pocket chain saw, the segmented cutting chain fits into a small can and the two handles are also easily packable. It will cut up to 12", very fast cutting on anything smaller. For the bigger stuff a bow saw or chainsaw would be best. I also have a 20" Stihl and a 14" Sears saws.

Anyone use one of the Bob trailers with a Pugsley?


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

scottybinwv said:


> Anyone use one of the Bob trailers with a Pugsley?


Fatbike forum has threads like this. I did not read it all, just did an advanced search for pugsley trailer, lots of hits here. This one with a BOB and Mukluk sounds like custom fork needed because of wider stay spacing and offset.


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## scottybinwv (Jun 29, 2010)

^^^ Thanks, I always get way more results on search than I have time/patience to wade through.

It appears that the BoB 28 fork can be "modified", read bent, to work with an offset frame.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

scottybinwv said:


> ^^^ Thanks, I always get way more results on search than I have time/patience to wade through.
> 
> It appears that the BoB 28 fork can be "modified", read bent, to work with an offset frame.


Having patience to wade through lots of information is a critical skill to being a trail builder / designer. Unless you have a couple trail gurus to teach you in the woods, learning from reading, be it online or all the books you can get your hands on, is the real difference between becoming a trail ninja or just a hack builder. 

If you have both reading resources and those gurus to fine tune your learning, then you are blessed. I have all that and now how valuable it is to have all the great builders at my disposal, live and in print. :thumbsup:

_edit:_ Not trying to be a jerk in the above statement. In all my years in this, the people who do not read alot and ask a zillion questions of the good trail designers tend to build the most boring, unsustainable trails. Not a personal jab at anyone.


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## scottybinwv (Jun 29, 2010)

Looked at the BoB trailers, probably get one later.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I haven't needed a pick mattock much - but when I've needed one, it's been invaluable.

I need to get my hands on a rogue hoe. none of the crews I've ever worked on have had them. lots of pulaskis, mcleods, a few fire rakes, lots of regular garden rakes, shovels, and whatnot.

I have done trailwork carting tools around with a BOB. so much easier to get deeper into the trails with the tools. and if anything, the BOB is excellent for hauling a cooler full of food/icy beverages.

wondering about the pitch fork in the kit, though, slocaus. I can't say I've ever been in a situation where I've wanted one. what situations on the trail are they used for?


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Not to speak for Slocaus, but pitch forks are used for handling certain types of loose or stringy materials, hay and straw certainly, but also cut brush, weeds, grasses, especially if you don't want too get to close to the stuff for various reasons. Stuff that a shovel won't work for but you want to "shovel" it, like thick forest duff. Glad I don't need one, but will be curious to hear more... I have spent many hours on the end of a pitchfork but mostly on farms loading a manure spreader.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

NateHawk said:


> I haven't needed a pick mattock much - but when I've needed one, it's been invaluable.
> 
> I need to get my hands on a rogue hoe. none of the crews I've ever worked on have had them. lots of pulaskis, mcleods, a few fire rakes, lots of regular garden rakes, shovels, and whatnot.
> 
> ...


We get some soils that have embeded pieces of limestone, tightly packed. A pick is the only way to really break it up to shovel or drag around with a McLeod. That and breaking up clay soils that are set but damp in the spring to fill ruts and horse pock marks.

Rogue hoes are great. I picked one up based on posts in this forum. It has become my primary tool, and just about replaces a McLeod for drain work along with a shovel of course. It cuts through the roots of all the plants that grow in there due to the water supply, and you can drag and tamp like a McLeod.

I just hauled a power hedger, fuel, lube, all my gear out 10 miles in the BOB, then brushed about 2 mile of trail, then hauled it all back. About 50 lbs total in the trailer,

The pitchfork. @bsieb nailed it



bsieb said:


> Not to speak for Slocaus, but pitch forks are used for handling certain types of loose or stringy materials, hay and straw certainly, but also cut brush, weeds, grasses, especially if you don't want too get to close to the stuff for various reasons. Stuff that a shovel won't work for but you want to "shovel" it, like thick forest duff. Glad I don't need one, but will be curious to hear more... I have spent many hours on the end of a pitchfork but mostly on farms loading a manure spreader.


Our California coastal chaparral grows in like crazy in the spring, after the winter rains. It is a few kinds of sage, coyote brush, coffee berry, monkey flower, poison oak, deer weed, blackberry, and all kinds of other vines and stems and twigs. We power hedge and the debris has to be removed from the trail corridor and placed out of sight. Also much of the cut stuff hangs in the chaparral, so a pitchfork lets you rake the brush for loose stuff, drag it down the trail, and then place it into openings that keep it more or less hidden.


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## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

slocaus said:


> I just hauled a power hedger, fuel, lube, all my gear out 10 miles in the BOB, then brushed about 2 mile of trail, then hauled it all back. About 50 lbs total in the trailer,
> 
> The pitchfork. @bsieb nailed it
> 
> Our California coastal chaparral grows in like crazy in the spring, after the winter rains. It is a few kinds of sage, coyote brush, coffee berry, monkey flower, poison oak, deer weed, blackberry, and all kinds of other vines and stems and twigs. We power hedge and the debris has to be removed from the trail corridor and placed out of sight. Also much of the cut stuff hangs in the chaparral, so a pitchfork lets you rake the brush for loose stuff, drag it down the trail, and then place it into openings that keep it more or less hidden.


where abouts did you do all that work? I plan on getting a bit of work done this Saturday, if I can make it, at the Carrot Fest. I really enjoy how CCCMB handles things. I assume that the slo in your name stands for San Luis Obispo, I could be wrong, and if I am, then my statement looks silly...


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

ehigh said:


> where abouts did you do all that work? I plan on getting a bit of work done this Saturday, if I can make it, at the Carrot Fest. I really enjoy how CCCMB handles things. I assume that the slo in your name stands for San Luis Obispo, I could be wrong, and if I am, then my statement looks silly...


SLO CA US, San Luis Obispo, CA, USA correct.

I was brushing Rattlesnake at MdO today for SLOPOST, the co sponsor of the Carrot Fest for an endurance ride they have in June. We sometimes work on trails that we cannot ride with the great support we get from them. Such was the case today.



The last couple weeks the Tuesday crew has done East Boundary from the fire road above Horse Camp up to the Manzanita intersection, and now we are working on the new North Hazard Peak Trail that opened on Super Bowl Sunday.

I am the Regional Crew Leader at Montana de Oro. If you got the announcements about the Carrot Fest event to the mailing list, that is me sending them.  I hope you can make it Saturday, and Sunday, this will be a great event!

Thanks for the compliments on CCCMB.


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## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

That's great, there has been a lot of poison oak hanging into those sections of trails that you named. I noticed that a good amount of it was cleared just recently and it really did help. I'm one of those people that get poison oak rather severely and I know that some of those branches were responsible. Thanks for getting many of those out of the way. I have also noticed a large crack in the ground on Manzanita Trail that is very close to the single-track. The crack is a matter of inches from the trail, and if it fell (which I believe it soon will, probably the next rain) it may make accessing the trail rather difficult until more of the hillside was cleared to reroute it. I hope to see if there is some erosion fencing that could be put in there this Saturday as it is a part of my favorite route to take. Whether or not I work on that section doesn't entirely matter, I simply love that area would hate to see it gone by the end of next winter. Either way, I hope to do some good work. I think I will have to start showing up for more trail work other than just these sorts of bigger events.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

bsieb said:


> Not to speak for Slocaus, but pitch forks are used for handling certain types of loose or stringy materials, hay and straw certainly, but also cut brush, weeds, grasses, especially if you don't want too get to close to the stuff for various reasons. Stuff that a shovel won't work for but you want to "shovel" it, like thick forest duff. Glad I don't need one, but will be curious to hear more... I have spent many hours on the end of a pitchfork but mostly on farms loading a manure spreader.


That makes sense. I use a pitch fork often at home for working with manure, turning my compost, and working with the pine straw I use as mulch. great tool for those kinds of jobs - I've just never needed that sort of tool on the trail.



> Our California coastal chaparral grows in like crazy in the spring, after the winter rains. It is a few kinds of sage, coyote brush, coffee berry, monkey flower, poison oak, deer weed, blackberry, and all kinds of other vines and stems and twigs. We power hedge and the debris has to be removed from the trail corridor and placed out of sight. Also much of the cut stuff hangs in the chaparral, so a pitchfork lets you rake the brush for loose stuff, drag it down the trail, and then place it into openings that keep it more or less hidden.


In that case, it's due to differences in our local vegetation. I just don't have to deal with so much "brush" in general. What we call brush is generally just small trees and is much easier to drag off trail by hand because the forest is generally pretty open. And if it's not you don't have to go far to find an opening.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

NateHawk said:


> That makes sense. I use a pitch fork often at home for working with manure, turning my compost, and working with the pine straw I use as mulch. great tool for those kinds of jobs - I've just never needed that sort of tool on the trail.
> 
> In that case, it's due to differences in our local vegetation. I just don't have to deal with so much "brush" in general. What we call brush is generally just small trees and is much easier to drag off trail by hand because the forest is generally pretty open. And if it's not you don't have to go far to find an opening.


Here are a couple shots to show what we are up against and why a pitchfork is the tool of choice after a power hedger. Different area today in the National Forest instead of the State Park.

You can see the pile of diverse brush at his feet. Note the narrowness of the trail corridor ahead.



Again, the brush down on the trail waiting for the pitchfork removal; you actually need to get the loose stuff laying to top by inserting the fork tines and lifting, toss to the trail, then rake the edges of the trail, and find an opening to hide it all. Almost as much is laying just off trail as it on it already. Also note the 5 foot corridor behind him and the 2.5 to 3 foot corridor ahead. We probably covered 3/4 mile of tail in 3 1/2 hours.


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## scottybinwv (Jun 29, 2010)

Got my IMBA books today, looks like a really nice product. Stoked to do some reading.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

scottybinwv said:


> Got my IMBA books today, looks like a really nice product. Stoked to do some reading.


Look for _"Natural Surface Trails by Design"_ by Troy Scott Parker as well. Great book! :thumbsup:


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## scottybinwv (Jun 29, 2010)

Got my 70hr today, what a weapon/tool.


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