# Single Pivot -- Frame options, Maintenance, and Performance



## Bulette (Aug 12, 2017)

Moved to a really rocky area few years ago and looking at finally stepping up from a hard tail to a full suspension. I have procrastinated getting a full-sus for a few years, primarily because of upfront cost and maintenance cost -- I'm a high-mileage rider (but not particularly aggressive). 

That said, I've been saving and can nearly afford an entry level complete (2-3k, ideally), but I don't want to get stuck with something I cannot afford to maintain. This has led me to consider a single-pivot design with fewer bearings to maintain (and since I'll be doing most of the work, less of my time, too). Unfortunately, for true 2-bearing single-pivot bikes, it seems like the options are Starling, Orange, or BikesDirect. 

The BikesDirect single-pivots that might be worthwhile are close to $2,000, which will come with a Rockshox Recon and Monarch. On the other hand, I can get a name-brand Giant or Marin, possibly delivered to a local shop for about that same price. While I'd be saddled with 6-8 more bearings to keep an eye on, I'd also have local warranty support. Then again, supply is so short now, I'd still (most likely) be ordering sight unseen, even if through a bike shop. 

While I'd really like something from Orange (or similar) for the DIY of frame maintenance, the extra bump in budget there (from 2k to 4k) sure affords lots of maintenance on the entry level frames. But then, I can also go with a Gravity FSX, keep my budget and get the single pivot.

Is there anything I've missed? Am I just down to the personal decision of brand, off brand? Is there reason to avoid the single-pivot (or perhaps restated, a rationale to get a linkage-design and suck it up as regards maintenance)?


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## Grinchy8 (Jul 6, 2021)

I think the maintenance you expect is far less in reality. Owner of three very old FSRs. . .


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Bulette said:


> * Is there reason to avoid the single-pivot *(or perhaps restated, a rationale to get a linkage-design and suck it up as regards maintenance)?


No, it's a perfectly good suspension design when done correctly, which BD is NOT. All of their stuff is very outdated in both geometry and suspension design. I'd avoid this at all costs, it's NOT the same as other bikes you're shopping for. 

IMO you're looking at this all wrong. When it comes to maintenance, and you're replacing bearings, it isn't that big of a deal if you're replacing 2 or 8 bearings quite frankly. That's a drop in the bucket compared to brake pads, tires, chains, cassettes, BB's, etc. 

Find a bike that suites your riding style and fits well. There are a lot of good bikes available that aren't super expensive. Yes the components will not be high end but that's the tradeoff when shopping for a budget full suspension. 

The good news is a modern $3k full sus bike will be very fun AND more capable than bikes from only a few years ago, if maybe a few pounds heavier than more expensive options. Upgrade as funds allow but I'd recommend buying a frame that's worth investing in better components over time. It's the foundation, everything else is bolt-on and replaceable. Spend your money on a good frame. 

There have been multiple quality articles written in the last year comparing budget full suspension bikes. Do some research/reading WITHOUT focusing on how many bearings the suspension design uses.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

The idea that full suspension riders are constantly replacing bearings is some weird Hardtail4Lyfe thing. 

I'm sure some people ride with a combination of moisture and soil type that eats bearings and a few more probably over-clean with detergents and pressure but most riders will never need to replace bearings.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Agree. Bearings was an issue for some manufacturers 15-20 years ago. 


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

In that price range, the Polygon T8 is hard to beat. It comes with quality components on a nice and modern frame that will last. It’s a bit heavy, but rides extremely well.


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## Bulette (Aug 12, 2017)

Having a bit of trouble reconciling the answers in this thread with the comments running over at this other thread: Why do makers use ball bearings instead of bushings for...

That discussion has far more posts, and while I haven't counted, it seems that at least half of the posters are dealing with suspension maintenance on the regular. Whether or not that maintenance is difficult or not seems to depend on the bike. Determining the number of bearings (or bushings) on a given frame, and whether or not those bearings are industrial standards seems like quite a chore...

That pushes me back towards the single-pivot (but not entirely). I can't seem to identify the difference between the Orange Frames and the BikesDirect FSX. I ran a 26'' BD Hardtail years ago without complaint, and their $2,000 full-suspensions look rather modernized (including the choice of either single pivot or linkage) -- they even offer the Diamondback Atroz with a Recon/Monarch setup. 

On the other hand, with the linkage-driven design being more readily available at a wider range of prices and specs, is there a resource that addresses bearing maintenance for different frames? I.e. How many and what type of bearings on a Marin Rift Zone vs a Giant Trance vs a Fezzari Abajo Peak? Or are they all standardized these days?

PS: The Polygon is certainly well-equipped at that price point!


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

You're WAY over thinking this. 

There's a reason why there aren't 100 threads that have already answered this multiple times... it's not that big a deal. 

Choose the right bike for you based on your budget, riding style, and local terrain. Not because of bearings.


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

The amount of pivot maintenance has a lot to do with the conditions you ride in. Any number of pivots is not a good indication of how much pivot maintenance you will need to do. As onespeed said choose a bike that fits your terrain and riding style.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

*OneSpeed* said:


> No, it's a perfectly good suspension design when done correctly, which BD is NOT. All of their stuff is very outdated in both geometry and suspension design. I'd avoid this at all costs, it's NOT the same as other bikes you're shopping for.


This can't be stressed enough.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

*OneSpeed* said:


> You're WAY over thinking this.
> 
> There's a reason why there aren't 100 threads that have already answered this multiple times... it's not that big a deal.
> 
> Choose the right bike for you based on your budget, riding style, and local terrain. Not because of bearings.


The bad old days are gone. I totally forgot that one time a manufacturer’s execution of bearing or bushing longevity was important to me. Have to say I continue to be leery of bushings. 


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Bulette said:


> Having a bit of trouble reconciling the answers in this thread with the comments running over at this other thread: Why do makers use ball bearings instead of bushings for...
> 
> That discussion has far more posts, and while I haven't counted, it seems that at least half of the posters are dealing with suspension maintenance on the regular.


Selection Bias.

People who have not had problems with bearings or bushings are not likely to participate in a thread about problems with bearings and bushings.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

I think part of the disagreement is because of where you ride. If you ride in the red dust of Moab you are going to want the fewest pivot points to maintain. A set of bearings is not cheap. The older the bike gets the harder it gets to find the bushings or bearings. Ask a Klein Mantra owner. It also depends therefore on how long you keep bikes and where you ride.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

The issue is the other things that run on bearings on your bike, hubs, freewheel, BB and headset. Adding suspension bearings is only a marginal increase to this and any condition that makes the suspension bearings wear out faster is going to do the same to all these other bearings. In other words, it's not really much extra and you are going to be dealing with it anyway. There are one of two ways to deal with it. Have your bike shop do everything, or buy some bearing presses and get comfortable doing it yourself. The latter option is generally better in the long run, because you can source bearings independently from the bike or component manufacturer, which may spec crap bearings in the first place, but the former option is generally better for people that don't want to spend the time and effort doing this and maybe won't own the bike for more than a few seasons, when it's likely the model will still be supported by the manufacturer.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Jayem said:


> The issue is the other things that run on bearings on your bike, hubs, freewheel, BB and headset. Adding suspension bearings is only a marginal increase to this and any condition that makes the suspension bearings wear out faster is going to do the same to all these other bearings. In other words, it's not really much extra and you are going to be dealing with it anyway. There are one of two ways to deal with it. Have your bike shop do everything, or buy some bearing presses and get comfortable doing it yourself. The latter option is generally better in the long run, because you can source bearings independently from the bike or component manufacturer, which may spec crap bearings in the first place, but the former option is generally better for people that don't want to spend the time and effort doing this and maybe won't own the bike for more than a few seasons, when it's likely the model will still be supported by the manufacturer.


Not apples to apples. The suspension bushings/bearings often require tools you don't normal have. Second most hubs, BB etc are now seal units and not exposed as much as the pivots.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mike_kelly said:


> Not apples to apples. The suspension bushings/bearings often require tools you don't normal have. Second most hubs, BB etc are now seal units and not exposed as much as the pivots.


Both use sealed bearings. Both are exposed in the same way. Both require tools you don't normal have.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Jayem said:


> Both use sealed bearings. Both are exposed in the same way. Both require tools you don't normal have.


You are not looking at the same pivot bushings as I am.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mike_kelly said:


> You are not looking at the same pivot bushings as I am.


Ok, I concede, you can't find bushings for a 25 year old Klein Mantra and it may have some wacky stuff associated with it. Relevance to thread?


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Jayem said:


> Ok, I concede, you can't find bushings for a 25 year old Klein Mantra and it may have some wacky stuff associated with it. Relevance to thread?


As I stated before - How long are you going to keep your bike? I own a Pinarello Dogma from 2005. Has an obsolete proprietary bottom bracket that can not be sourced. Nice bike if I could find a BB.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

mike_kelly said:


> As I stated before - How long are you going to keep your bike? I own a Pinarello Dogma from 2005. Has an obsolete proprietary bottom bracket that can not be sourced. Nice bike if I could find a BB.


Point is the simpler and more standard the better.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

I'll go back to the *Vintage, Retro, Classic forum now. *


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

PhillipJ said:


> Selection Bias.
> 
> People who have not had problems with bearings or bushings are not likely to participate in a thread about problems with bearings and bushings.


Oh I’ve had many problems. With bearings and bushings. 220lb plus, 4 season east coast and Midwest. 

But if you want a single pivot, go for it. 


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## Bulette (Aug 12, 2017)

It's reassuring to hear a bit of both: one, that bearing maintenance is real and I'm not crazy, but two, that the systems have overall improved to be less troublesome. 

I do keep my bikes awhile, and do all my own work, hence the concerns. I don't and won't ride much in the wet, but I do ride some dusty tracks ... either way, better than not riding at all.

I'm waiting on stock at the LBS just to get a better idea of sizes and new geometries. 

Since the only quality single pivots are a couple thousand more than the linkage designs, I'll probably end up wrangling with the extra bearings at this point.

I already have bearing presses and drifts of various diameters ... will I need any other tools a season or two down the line?


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

I'm more concerned about suspension maintenance vs bearings/pivots.

Not a big deal either way.

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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I have no idea what the big deal with bearings is. I just ordered a full bearing kit for $75 from Forbidden. I have 3 full seasons in on my Druid. No issues yet but thought I would pick one up with a few other things I ordered, just to have it on hand. The top mechanic at my LBS will install them for next to nothing and a cold one of these:








I have never heard of someone using this as a criterion for bike selection. Even if your bearings go, and that’s a big if, it’s not as though the frame is obsolete.

I really don’t get the preoccupation with this.


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## Bulette (Aug 12, 2017)

Shark said:


> I'm more concerned about suspension maintenance vs bearings/pivots.
> 
> Not a big deal either way.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk





mtnbkrmike said:


> I have no idea what the big deal with bearings is. I just ordered a full bearing kit for $75 from Forbidden.


Budgeting for maintenance is critical for some; I find myself running clinchers because they're 50% of the price of tubeless casings on sale, and I put a lot of time on my 9s road bike because the chain and cassette can be replaced for the price of just 1 chain on the 11s. 

Shark is correct too, that suspension maintenance is more distressing than any bearings -- and it is the one job I plan to pay a professional. As I mentioned at the start of this, an incoming raise and some long built savings is allowing me to just barely get the bike (and that too, still in the near, but off future) -- keeping it rolling is equally important!


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Some rear shocks are much more simple to service than others.

Many fox and rockshox are a simple$20 seal kit and can be completed yourself in under an hour.
The cane Creek I use now has to be sent to a shop and costs$200. Ouch.

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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

How about this?






Diamondback ATROZ 3 BIKE | Jenson USA







www.jensonusa.com





I had a Weyless XP back in the day. A Heckler ripoff. Technically it did nothing well, but it was fun as heck. And it was low maintenance. 


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

If budgeting for bearing replacement in two or three years is a big concern for you then why not stick with a Hard Tail?


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

I have 2016 GiantReign and have replaced the bearings twice from new, I ride in wet muddy conditions regularly(what is bike washing?) I am also fat and had delusions of grandeur as to my racing abilities

I paid for the tools(it can be done with basic tools and threaded bar but like tools) as I have two Giants and my mates all have Giant bikes so they get used a bit.

Marino do nice(and cheap) single-pivot frames if you don't mind building up a bike


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Bulette said:


> Budgeting for maintenance is critical for some; I find myself running clinchers because they're 50% of the price of tubeless casings on sale...
> Shark is correct too, that suspension maintenance is more distressing than any bearings -- and it is the one job I plan to pay a professional.


Budget seems important to you. Are you interested in learning more about performing your own service & maintenance? Paying for proper service & maintenance can be a bit more than chump change.


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## Bulette (Aug 12, 2017)

DrDon said:


> How about this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Diamondback was essentially why I was starting this conversation. Of course, commenters have a knee jerk reaction when you say BikesDirect:

DiamondBack NEW DISC Brake FULL Suspension 27.5 Mountain Bikes on Sale Aluminum FULL Suspension 27.5 Mountain Bikes DiamondBack ATROZ 3





theMISSIONARY said:


> I have 2016 GiantReign and have replaced the bearings twice from new, I ride in wet muddy conditions regularly(what is bike washing?) I am also fat and had delusions of grandeur as to my racing abilities
> 
> I paid for the tools(it can be done with basic tools and threaded bar but like tools) as I have two Giants and my mates all have Giant bikes so they get used a bit.
> 
> Marino do nice(and cheap) single-pivot frames if you don't mind building up a bike


I like the Marino concept a lot, but their full suspension starts at $550 (still a bargain), and out-the-door price would come close to an OEM build (mainly from retail on forks, shocks and wheels). Also, while I could confidently design or replicate hardtail dimensions, I'm not so confident designing the full-suspension triangles.



Cleared2land said:


> Budget seems important to you. Are you interested in learning more about performing your own service & maintenance? Paying for proper service & maintenance can be a bit more than chump change.


I am, and between your's and Shark's comments, I've just started looking at the serviceability of common suspension parts. Unfortunately, that seems to be more difficult of a question than asking about frame-bearing service.


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## Bulette (Aug 12, 2017)

I put some money down towards a Giant Trance X 29 3; it will be the most expensive new bicycle I have ever purchased. The shop assured me that with might intended used (sit and spin) that the linkage bearings should hold up to at least 1 year (within warranty), and likely 2-3 years of regular but not excessive use (which matches the anecdotes I've collected in this thread and others). 


Another major selling point was being able to deliver and warranty through my local shop for a price competitive with online direct to consumer retailers -- folks might be quick to point out the SX drivetrain (rather than the Deore on some competitors), but I'm not in love with any particular drivetrain at the moment, and could easily see 'downgrading' to a Microshift or Box 9-speed in the future, if it comes to that (much cheaper cassettes and so forth). 

I anticipate suspension service will be required sooner than later (likely before linkage bearings). I have the general socket sets, bearing presses, shock pumps and on. The fork looks easy enough to DIY with standard tools (Rockshox 35 Gold RL); I'm assuming the Fox Float DPS is a little less DIY, judging by this list of tools from the service manual?

Appreciate all the responses!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Bulette said:


> I put some money down towards a Giant Trance X 29 3...
> ...and could easily see 'downgrading' to a Microshift or Box 9-speed in the future, if it comes to that (much cheaper cassettes and so forth).


Say what? 



Bulette said:


> I anticipate suspension service will be required sooner than later (likely before linkage bearings). I have the general socket sets, bearing presses, shock pumps and on. The fork looks easy enough to DIY with standard tools (Rockshox 35 Gold RL); I'm assuming the Fox Float DPS is a little less DIY, judging by this list of tools from the service manual?


The shock is the easiest of all. Don't be too concerned about the Fox site tool listing. You'll be just be performing simple air can type service. More of a fluid exchange. You won't be needing to do any seal or wiper replacement (hopefully) for a while. But when you do, it will be easy enough. 

If you're a mechanical & crafty guy, you can improvise most fork service tools, but a lifetime of wrenching has me long tired of some tool hacks. Some fork tools are worth their expense. Others can be improvised easy enough. 

Enjoy your new ride.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

It looks like Bulette has long departed the scene.


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## Bulette (Aug 12, 2017)

Cleared2land said:


> It looks like Bulette has long departed the scene.


2021 Giant Trance X 29


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