# The ABSOLUTE BEST PANTS for Commuting...



## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

So I just got my Outlier 4 Season Black Lotus pants this morning. I have a 3mile commute to and from work here in mid coast Maine. This morning was very wet with more spray than I have encountered in awhile from a storm yesterday. The pants shook it all off no problem. Wind resistance is great and they breath like every other Schoeller product...GREAT! I've been looking for a set of pants that I can wear doing everything(backpacking, hiking, mtbing, commuting, coffee shop lounging...and these are it. I'll keep posted issues like durability, but these pants are appearing to be worth every penny. I was a bit worried about fit and the nice look, but a 34 has plenty of room for this fellow with 60cm thighs, 5' 10/192lbs. I don't care much about looks as I am shooting for function over fashion. I'm already in love. I've always been a fan of Schoeller and these rock. I have a link for a discounted price for the Lotus. Hit me with a pm and I'll shoot it to you. Tyler at Outlier is a great guy as well with superb communication about the product. Emails were returned in about 10 minutes. So far, so good...just had to share as if I was looking for such a pair of pants, I am sure some of you are as well. 
http://outlier.cc/


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

Looks like they're ready to get stuck in my drivetrain.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

Not a boot cut LOL...no worries.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

Well, I've had them almost two weeks now. And they continue to impress me. I've washed them once even though they simply do not hold odor, stains, dust, road grit, slush, dog hair or anything else for that matter. They just stay black. Water rolls right off. Last night I rode home and shoveled the driveway in them for two hours in almost two feet of snow at 15 degrees. They were dry and comfy the whole time. Last week I rode in at -16F. My legs got a bit cold, but not too bad in 15 minutes. Not once have I gotten them caught in the drivetrain. So comfy all the time. These pants are amazing, worth every penny and now completely sold out. It's kinda nice taking a chance on a product and having it go my way.


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## jddjirikian (Aug 25, 2006)

Bummer. Not clyde friendly. Can anyone recommend a clyde friendly substitute?


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

Depends on how clyde you are. I have 60cm thighs and a 34 is getting too big as I am dropping weight(currently 191, 213 last year about this time). If you are a 36 or so they will fit as they stretch a bunch and are rommier than the models(beanpoles) show. 36 might be the only size left. Not sure about a sub...Outlier is the only company making these.


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## Kyle2834 (May 4, 2007)

How would they compare to Marmot Precip pants?


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

Kyle2834 said:


> How would they compare to Marmot Precip pants?


 There is no comparison. I would never wear precip pants riding. They are not nearly breathable enough. Waterproofness is moot as these pants never really get wet and they dry so fast that it isn't a factor. Not only that, I could not ride my bike home, then shovel the driveway for two hours and then go to a dope party, work, coffee shop(or club, if that is your thing) with a nice shirt(or a t-shirt) and not skip a beat in Precip pants. In other words, you'd have to change into other pants once you got to where you were going. I'll skip that step and wear one pair of pants that works everywhere as these do. In addition, I stay away from anything with a membrane on the legs if I am aerobic. Thru hiking the AT brought the anti membrane philosophy home for me. If you have a fabric that wicks, sheds crud/water, and can break the wind reasonably, you do not need a membrane or laminate unless you are standing in a down pour. Even then, I'd take a dryskin exteme garment over a laminated garment as it would dry much, much faster. But this is just my experience living in the stuff for weeks and months on end... Schoeller dryskin extreme blows everything out of the water for active wear. Outlier finally made a pant that you can live in seamlessly if you are a bicycle oriented individual. I am in them now and have been all day without giving much thought to them. I cannot wait to go backpacking in them.


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## markf (Jan 17, 2007)

i rock endura overtrousers when it's wet/cold/nasty outside. the stop wind and water completely. worked on my 4 mile commute down to -15F with a -40F wind chill. fit well over my jeans with a bit of room to spare.


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

*Endura 3/4s here in Nor Cal.*

No insulation but they cover the knees. The exposed bits get a bit chilly, but nothing drastic.


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## jasevr4 (Feb 23, 2005)

How the hell can anyone justify that sort of money on pants?


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

jasevr4 said:


> How the hell can anyone justify that sort of money on pants?


$1850 frame
$600 brakes
$450 branks
$900 I9 wheels...
$200 Sidi Dom 5
$3000 road bike 
$200 Sidi Genius 5
$700 Snowboard
$250 Bindings
$300 Boots
$450 Snowboarding jacket
$250 Snowboarding pants

To be honest, I didn't pay that much for those items, however...
How can I justify any of that? If I didn't use the above items and these pants a lot, I could not justify them. But I do so I can...

$180 for a technical piece of gear isn't that much at all. And they are $120 cheaper than a pant made by Cloudveil using the same exact fabric with the same exact treatment. They are made in the United States. Outlier is a small American company. If you hadn't noticed, small American companies need a bit of support. I'm happy to pay extra for that support.

You always get what you pay for. I do not regret investing in a piece of gear that I am extremely pleased with. They aren't just pants that you wear around. You can do anything in them. Show me a pant you can ride in, hike in, snowshoe in, lounge in, shovel your driveway in, party in, sleep in comfortably, breath as well, dry as well, shed water/salty road spray/road crud as well and will work better than these for less money. Usually there is always a compromise with gear. There are no compromises with these. I'm taking these things when I hike the PCT in 2011 or 2012. I hiked the AT in 07 wearing a pair of Cloudveil shorts that were made of the same material. The shorts are still in great shape even though I put them through absolute hell. Schoeller is amazing and worth every penny.

That is how they are justified.


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## Kyle2834 (May 4, 2007)

jasevr4 said:


> How the hell can anyone justify that sort of money on pants?


HUGE can of worms you know...:nono:


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## citybiker (Mar 20, 2008)

*Justification???????*



jasevr4 said:


> How the hell can anyone justify that sort of money on pants?


Who needs to justify anything they spend? There are some of us who rely on the experiences of fellow commuters/cyclists to guide our own fitness gear/cycling product purchases. Honest 3rd party product reviews are more than welcome IMO AND APPRECIATED. No one is forcing anyone else to spend a buck eighty on a pair of pants, but I reserve the right to if I so choose.

Consider the can of worms OPEN.  :lol: :yikes:


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## homieg9999 (Dec 24, 2006)

That's a lot for pants. I understand the technical aspect of it, but I picked up a pair of columbia shell pants from Sierra Trading Post for around 10 bucks, and just slide those over my work pants (I'm a teacher - usually corduroy) and I'm good to AT LEAST 10 degrees F, probably colder.


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## surfbug (Dec 26, 2010)

great info!


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## jasevr4 (Feb 23, 2005)

And it's funny looking back on this, since moving to Canada I have a newfound respect for clothing and it's worth during Winter!


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

indyfab25 said:


> So I just got my Outlier 4 Season Black Lotus pants this morning. I have a 3mile commute to and from work here in mid coast Maine. This morning was very wet with more spray than I have encountered in awhile from a storm yesterday. The pants shook it all off no problem. Wind resistance is great and they breath like every other Schoeller product...GREAT! I've been looking for a set of pants that I can wear doing everything(backpacking, hiking, mtbing, commuting, coffee shop lounging...and these are it. I'll keep posted issues like durability, but these pants are appearing to be worth every penny. I was a bit worried about fit and the nice look, but a 34 has plenty of room for this fellow with 60cm thighs, 5' 10/192lbs. I don't care much about looks as I am shooting for function over fashion. I'm already in love. I've always been a fan of Schoeller and these rock. I have a link for a discounted price for the Lotus. Hit me with a pm and I'll shoot it to you. Tyler at Outlier is a great guy as well with superb communication about the product. Emails were returned in about 10 minutes. So far, so good...just had to share as if I was looking for such a pair of pants, I am sure some of you are as well.
> http://outlier.cc/


Interesting. That's the same material used for making outerwear for the U.S. military. Except the material color is either sand, green, or Multicam pattern.

And I can attest that the material is awesome in durability and wind/water resistance. Schoeller makes the material in various material thickness too, via denier count.


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## Ronin Six (Oct 1, 2009)

(You'd think the people shown at Outlier and Rapha could afford helmets. LOL I kid. Really digging a few of the Outlier items.) Just ordered a pair of SWRVE Black Label Winter Schoeller Pants over the holidays, and hoping they're good for my 6 mile commute in the wet. They're also made of 4 way stretch Schoeller, lined, and can be ordered from 27" inseam to unhemmed, and up to a 36" waist.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

I'm still rocking mine. Finally got a little hole in them but they have been amazing to this day. The Swerve pants look really nice as well.


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## digitalayon (Jul 31, 2007)

ride naked


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

digitalayon said:


> ride naked


When -10d below? Thank you for your insight!


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## digitalayon (Jul 31, 2007)

why not just go with some wind breaker pants and layer underneath with long johns and thin lay sweat pants? Works for me....just cold on my face.


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## indyfab25 (Feb 10, 2004)

digitalayon said:


> why not just go with some wind breaker pants and layer underneath with long johns and thin lay sweat pants? Works for me....just cold on my face.


Because most folks cannot wear windbreaker pants to work. That and it takes forever for long johns and sweat pants to dry leaving you cold for awhile. So then you would have to carry pants and change into them when you got there. These kill two birds with one stone. I wear these things to weddings, skate skiing, hiking, backpacking, commuting, mountain biking and they still look new after a couple of seasons. I would have shredded multiple windbreaker pants in this time in addition to being wet and uncomfortable.


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## rdkopp0153 (Jun 17, 2009)

I just wear a simple pair of cheap nylon Cabela pants over my normal work pants, with higher end wool long underwear underneath and that got me through -22F in Pueblo, Colorado today.

http://www.alternativecommutepueblo.com/


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## intheways (Apr 19, 2004)

I am loathe to admit that I ordered my 3rd pair of Outlier Workwears. I love these pants! I can wear them in snow, rain, and sleet and still make it to meetings looking half-way decent without changing. They are a game changer for me. Yeah, the price is exorbitant, but considering the quality (tailoring and material), they are a bargain. A lot of other high-end clothes cost similar if not more, for non-technical fabrics. 

I have a pair of Swrve Jeans that I like, but the cut of the Outlier pants is PERFECT. I can't think of a better product.


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## JAGI410 (Apr 19, 2008)

rdkopp0153 said:


> I just wear a simple pair of cheap nylon Cabela pants over my normal work pants, with higher end wool long underwear underneath and that got me through -22F in Pueblo, Colorado today.
> 
> http://www.alternativecommutepueblo.com/


I use this method as well (but pants from Target) and it works for me in the same low temps.


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## nato_the_greato (Jan 27, 2008)

Propper BDU cargo pants. You can get them at military surplus stores. Ripstop fabric and double layered in the seat and knees. Cheap and they last forever. I've had the same couple pairs for 3 years now, no holes or anything like that. When it's cold I wear some Patagonia rain pants. When it's really cold, I'll wear leg warmers under the pants too. That'll get me down to -10*, and if it's colder than that, I'll wear my ski pants.


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## michel77 (Apr 9, 2012)

I got a pair of the 4Season pants based on this thread, so I'm bumping it 

They are positively awesome, I wear them almost more off the bike then on..


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