# newbie on hydros need some help



## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

So there I was&#8230;.finally putting my claws in my new bike (just arrived from her long waiting in Guadalajara). While building it up, I found the brake pads on the front caliper were stuck to each other (probably the level was pushed when my friend packaged it).

I read somewhere that I only needed to separate the pads manually *taking care of not damaging the pads*; it looks like I never really understood these words though. &#8230; In my head all I heard was "grab the sharpest knife and use it so separate the pads"      . The outcome&#8230;. well I think you know it already&#8230; anyways, I damaged the pads on a small section (2x2mm). I am a newbie with hydraulic brakes, and I guess I will learn a lot of things by trial and error&#8230; or maybe&#8230; you can help me to ease the learning curve.

So, here are the questions:


Do I need to change the pads? I think I have to, but it's better to ask.
Where can I get a new set of pads for Hayes HFX? And how much would they cost me? 
Is there any way I can modulate the brake lever progression in this model? I couldn't find it on Hayes' manual.
Thanks for the help and hope to join you in the trails soon

Cheers,


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

ritopc said:


> So there I was&#8230;.finally putting my claws in my new bike (just arrived from her long waiting in Guadalajara). While building it up, I found the brake pads on the front caliper were stuck to each other (probably the level was pushed when my friend packaged it).
> 
> I read somewhere that I only needed to separate the pads manually *taking care of not damaging the pads*; it looks like I never really understood these words though. &#8230; In my head all I heard was "grab the sharpest knife and use it so separate the pads"      . The outcome&#8230;. well I think you know it already&#8230; anyways, I damaged the pads on a small section (2x2mm). I am a newbie with hydraulic brakes, and I guess I will learn a lot of things by trial and error&#8230; or maybe&#8230; you can help me to ease the learning curve.
> 
> ...


Ritopc, I'm not that good on your problem, so I'll let Warp or someone else help you on your pad problem.

Viansi sells the Hayes in Mexico (I don't know if there is other LBS that also does), so it might be a good idea to give them a call, they should have the pads..

On the Hayes, you can only modulate how far the lever is via a small screw under the lever... also, they tend to unscrew while riding. You can fix that with loctite. I have some and, besides this, have worked flawlessly.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

ritopc said:


> I read somewhere that I only needed to separate the pads manually *taking care of not damaging the pads*; it looks like I never really understood these words though. &#8230; In my head all I heard was "grab the sharpest knife and use it so separate the pads"      . The outcome&#8230;. well I think you know it already&#8230; anyways, I damaged the pads on a small section (2x2mm).


Take a *Flat Blade Screwedriver*, use the metal back up plate as a fulcrum and GENTLY push the pads all the way into the caliper bores.
Now, insert a business card (or one of those business-card-like-strip-whoore-place-propaganda... I've been told they use that kind of propaganda ) between EACH SIDE ofof the caliper and the rotor and press gently the lever (with the wheel in, obviously) a few times until you get a firm feeling on the lever again. This will reset your pistons and give you drag free performance.

If you get a draggy rotor and realize that one of the pistons move more than the other... you may have an issue very known to Hayes and is that one piston is bigger than it should and gets stuck into the caliper (friends don't let friends to ride Hayes, Ellsworths or Suntours). You should warranty it, after trying to un-stick it to verify it's not a simple stuck piston.



ritopc said:


> I am a newbie with hydraulic brakes, and I guess I will learn a lot of things by trial and error&#8230; or maybe&#8230; you can help me to ease the learning curve.


Visit the Brake time forum AND download all the manuals from Hayes site. Read them carefully and follow them like a cuisine's recipe.

Your average car mechanic didn't finished the secundaria and he's able to bleed and service brakes. It ain't rocket science. You can do it too.



ritopc said:


> [*]Do I need to change the pads? I think I have to, but it's better to ask.


Not really. You have to bed in your brakes anyway. Again, follow Hayes instructions or I can forward you some info from the latest MBA. The bed in process will remove material off the pad and will erase any irregularity on them. It will put some pad material on the rotor too.

I would buy a pair as a back-up. You never know how much they will last on you. After the first set, you pretty much get the idea on how much will they last.



ritopc said:


> [*]Where can I get a new set of pads for Hayes HFX? And how much would they cost me?


As Roberto mentioned, Viansi has them. I ignore the price of the real thing, but the Koolstops are 160 pesos per wheel. IMHO, Koolstops are maye the best pad once you account for value/performance. They last long, don't squeal, don't eat rotors, have lots of power, etc. Highly recommendable.



ritopc said:


> [*]Is there any way I can modulate the brake lever progression in this model? I couldn't find it on Hayes' manual.


Yeah... by gently pulling the lever with your fingers.

There are no modulation adjustment on any Hayes but the El Camino's. Actually, those are the only brake with that feature. Hayes are famous for their On-Off feel... worst than Avid Mechs that are very grabby indeed. Once I tried a pair of those and the lever has a very long dead stroke almost until you hit the handlebar with the lever and then they block the wheel. I don't really like them. Avid, Shimano and Magura have much more modulation and maybe even more power (not my Julies, though).



ritopc said:


> Thanks for the help and hope to join you in the trails soon
> 
> Cheers,


Nothing to thank for!!


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

Some more tricks:

- Never touch your rotors with your barehands. No matter how clean they are, they have grease on them and that's no good for rotors/pads. Discs are very sensitive beasts.

- If you screwed it and got your rotor contaminated with oil/grease, clean the rotors with alcohol and a clean rag. Go thru the bed-in process again each time you do so. You will lose some braking power after a clean-up.

- If you got your pads contaminated with oil... you're screwed. You can try baking them, but that doesn't guarantees your safety. A pair pf pads is cheaper than a visit to the Seguro's ER. Replace the pads.

- Get a bleed kit and learn to use it. Use rubber gloves while working on bleeding brakes from Avid, Hayes, Formula, Grimeca and any manufacturer using DOT Fluid as it's carcirogenic and it irritates the skin and may damage your bike's paint. Shimano and Magura use oil that it's much more friendly.

- Use the best quality DOT fluid you can find (any Refaccionaria has some) according to your Manufacturer's recommendations. Note that some DOT fluids are incompatible, so make sure you're using the right one. Otherwise, empty the brake and re-fill with new fluid. It doesn't hurt to have new fluid in there, especially with DOT as it attracts water even through the hose.


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> ..... (friends don't let friends to ride Hayes, Ellsworths or Suntours). ...


I don't know why you dislike them so much. While they're not XT, they work fine and do the trick... I wouldn't pitch them against the best hydros off course (which I don't know which ones would be, Magura, Avid, Hope?)..


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

rzozaya1969 said:


> I don't know why you dislike them so much. While they're not XT, they work fine and do the trick... I wouldn't pitch them against the best hydros off course (which I don't know which ones would be, Magura, Avid, Hope?)..


Operative word: "Like"
It's a personal preference, and before saying anything else, to each his own.

They get the job done, but again, they work like an On-Off switch rather than a brake. It's like the difference between my Warp and my Blade. The Warp gets the job done. The Blade is just superior for several reasons.

See... there are a lot of situations where you want the brake actually deccelerating the bike and not locking the wheels. It's not bad for nice traction situations where the stop happens sooner. But on loose over hardpack, sand, and loose terrain it can get dangerous. You need modulation to actually get the job done.

Not that they don't have modulation, it's that you have to be way much more careful when pressing the levers. The idea is that you concentrate on the trail, not the bike itself.

A couple more reasons should be the nice amount of QC issues with them. Read the Brake Time forum to see what I mean.

Not everything is grey cloud though... They have small parts available in Mexico, the fluid can be got even at Comercial Mexicana, they're cheap and not bad when they work.

You be the judge.

I simply prefer Maguras. If their cheapo brake works good, the bigger brothers can only be better. Their Customer Service (if ever needed as they're very reliable) is top-notch even across the border.

Shimanos are maybe the best option for Mexico. Nice brakes at nice prices, parts availablity and really sweet performance.

Avids are very good too. Hard to argue with them. Not as available in Mexico though and a bit expensive.

Hopes... er... I have yet to see one here, but no doubt they're nice.

If I would want to switch brands to another brake, it would be Formula. I haven't read a single negative reply from ANY of their brakes and they have been making bike disc brakes for a long time. Not very known though, but their CS is on par with Magura.

Again... is what you prefer. I just wouldn't recommend Hayes to a friend. I would invite him to try Shimano's 535, 555, 525's first.


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> .... Viansi has them. I ignore the price of the real thing, but the Koolstops are 160 pesos per wheel. IMHO, Koolstops are maye the best pad once you account for value/performance. They last long, don't squeal, don't eat rotors, have lots of power, etc. Highly recommendable.


Thanks for the tip, i think would go for a pair of those.



Warp2003 said:


> There are no modulation adjustment on any Hayes but the El Camino's. Actually, those are the only brake with that feature.


Bummer 

Thanks for the help


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> ...friends don't let friends to ride Hayes, Ellsworths or Suntours


For the moment i will stick with this ones to see how they work, upgrades will come later tho

Forgot the pics....here is my XC racer

 ..... not quite really. i'll have to shave some pound out of my body to compensate the heavy weight (nothing less than 39-pounds steed) . It's gona be a blast on the downhills though, can hardly wait. I'll use my soon-to-be-upgraded HT for the long climbs

BTW is is a use bike, got a really good price on a barely used bike. Everything looks new, dirty but new (still have to clean in thoroughly)

cheers


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Wooow, thats a sweet bike!!


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

ritopc said:


> For the moment i will stick with this ones to see how they work, upgrades will come later tho
> 
> Forgot the pics....here is my XC racer
> 
> ...


Hey, that's a nice bike!!!!! now you only need an in-between bike.. you can buy my Stump.... er.. spam....

Congratulations! What are you going to do with the pieces from you HT?


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

rzozaya1969 said:


> Hey, that's a nice bike!!!!! now you only need an in-between bike.. you can buy my Stump.... er.. spam....


Tempting......



rzozaya1969 said:


> Congratulations! What are you going to do with the pieces from you HT?


I am actually replacing the frame (stealhead or, rumble) the fork (pike), and front break..... well maybe more than that; compatibility issues. Probably just sell whatever i'm not gonna need at a very reasonable price. All in its due time tho.

cheers


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

ritopc said:


> Tempting......
> 
> I am actually replacing the frame (stealhead or, rumble) the fork (pike), and front break..... well maybe more than that; compatibility issues. Probably just sell whatever i'm not gonna need at a very reasonable price. All in its due time tho.
> 
> cheers


The Pike looks pretty good.... I'm drooling for one, but I'm looking at a Fox Vainilla or a Marzochi All Mountain 3... The Pike is too much for now, besides, I would need a new hub....


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

rzozaya1969 said:


> The Pike looks pretty good.... I'm drooling for one, but I'm looking at a Fox Vainilla or a Marzochi All Mountain 3... The Pike is too much for now, besides, I would need a new hub....


ohh yeah, you're right, 20mm axel, a hub needs to be added to my list


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

ritopc said:


> ohh yeah, you're right, 20mm axel, a hub needs to be added to my list


Where are you planning to buy the Pike?


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

rzozaya1969 said:


> Where are you planning to buy the Pike?


Not before June that's for sure, need to buy/change my car and have some trips on the sight first.

Anyways, if you decide to go for one before I do, keep me posted with a review of the fork (for this one or whatever you'll decide to buy)

The zoke AM looks sweet; i have my doubts on its drop/jump performance.


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

rzozaya1969 said:


> Where are you planning to buy the Pike?


upssss sorry, you asked where, not when. My mistake.

I saw it at Scott-riders, it was less than 5k pesos AFAIR. I thought it was a good price.

Do you know any other LBS at a similar price?


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

ritopc said:


> upssss sorry, you asked where, not when. My mistake.
> 
> I saw it at Scott-riders, it was less than 5k pesos AFAIR. I thought it was a good price.
> 
> Do you know any other LBS at a similar price?


No, actually, I was wondering on prices in Mexico for the Pike or Revelation. If I could get a PIKE in Mexico for less than 5K, I will look into it. Do you have a contact for scott-riders?

I was thinking on a Vainilla R (which is like 5,060 or something similar), but if I could get my paws on a Pike, I would transfer my Talas to the Chameleon and put the Pike on the Moto Lite. Or just put the Pike on the Chameleon. I would just need to consider the front-hub issue. Atomlab has a 20mm front hub for 85 bucks in the US (AtomLab GI Front Hub 20mm)... Well, puting that on the Moto Lite would mean changing the front wheel (Ok, I could use the wheel from the Stumpy and relace it with a new hub), but then, I would need new disc (the ML discs are centerlocks), so, I would go with a 200mm disc... which leads to new adaptor.... UGI... AARRRRGGHHHHH!!!!!!

Maybe I should stick to the Vainilla or look into a Revelation.. I really need to know the price for a U-Turn version......


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

rzozaya1969 said:


> No, actually, I was wondering on prices in Mexico for the Pike or Revelation. If I could get a PIKE in Mexico for less than 5K, I will look into it. Do you have a contact for scott-riders?
> 
> I was thinking on a Vainilla R (which is like 5,060 or something similar), but if I could get my paws on a Pike, I would transfer my Talas to the Chameleon and put the Pike on the Moto Lite. Or just put the Pike on the Chameleon. I would just need to consider the front-hub issue. Atomlab has a 20mm front hub for 85 bucks in the US (AtomLab GI Front Hub 20mm)... Well, puting that on the Moto Lite would mean changing the front wheel (Ok, I could use the wheel from the Stumpy and relace it with a new hub), but then, I would need new disc (the ML discs are centerlocks), so, I would go with a 200mm disc... which leads to new adaptor.... UGI... AARRRRGGHHHHH!!!!!!
> 
> Maybe I should stick to the Vainilla or look into a Revelation.. I really need to know the price for a U-Turn version......


MTB RIDERS AJUSCO

Carretera Picacho-Ajusco

Tel. 5446 8143 y 45

http://www.mtb-riders.com/

The one I saw wasn't the top of the line, neither the entry level tho. Just give them a call to see what they have. Or take a look on your next ride on Ajusco.


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## elmadaleno (Jul 8, 2005)

rzozaya1969 said:


> Maybe I should stick to the Vainilla or look into a Revelation.. I really need to know the price for a U-Turn version......


Having another UGI attack eh? The Revelation is really nice, I was lusting after the Pike but I did not want to swap my front wheel. Check out ebay, sometimes its a better option to buy it there and have it shipped to Mexico as a gift.

Cheers

Mada


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

rzozaya1969 said:


> The Pike looks pretty good.... I'm drooling for one, but I'm looking at a Fox Vainilla or a Marzochi All Mountain 3... The Pike is too much for now, besides, I would need a new hub....


Pike - Yay. But expensive option due to the 20mm axle. But, I've seen some Real brand 20mm axles at Transvision Satelite going off for around 600 pesos. Marzocchi brand is the cheapest you can get online, from what I've gathered and the price is very similar to the Real not accounting for shipping and duties.

Vanilla - Yay. Perfect for the Chameleon. Coil sprung and already in Mexico. My personal pick if I were in your shoes.

All Mountain 3 - Nay. Below average damping in a nice chassis. Think of a VW Sedan engine in a Ferrari.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

ritopc said:


> The zoke AM looks sweet; i have my doubts on its drop/jump performance.


Zoke says no drops or jumps on the AM series. It may void your warranty. But we know they are just playing the old CYA game.

Anyway, if you think on going big, then the Pike is a much better option. Maybe the most reliable fork in 2005. Make a search on the suspension forum and check the reviews.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

ritopc said:


> I am actually replacing the frame (stealhead or, rumble) the fork (pike), and front break..... well maybe more than that; compatibility issues. Probably just sell whatever i'm not gonna need at a very reasonable price. All in its due time tho.
> 
> cheers


Check out greenfishsports.com

They have the Rumble for under 230 bucks and they also have some sweet New Old Stock Shermans going at around 300 bucks. The Sherman was not breaking fast enough, so Manipoo dropped it off their line.  It's one of the most reliable forks Manitou has made, but they just dropped it off their line.


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> Pike - Yay. But expensive option due to the 20mm axle. But, I've seen some Real brand 20mm axles at Transvision Satelite going off for around 600 pesos. Marzocchi brand is the cheapest you can get online, from what I've gathered and the price is very similar to the Real not accounting for shipping and duties.
> 
> Vanilla - Yay. Perfect for the Chameleon. Coil sprung and already in Mexico. My personal pick if I were in your shoes.
> 
> All Mountain 3 - Nay. Below average damping in a nice chassis. Think of a VW Sedan engine in a Ferrari.


I've thought so, I think I'm going for the Vainilla, unless I could get a U-Turn Revelation for the same price


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## elmadaleno (Jul 8, 2005)

rzozaya1969 said:


> I've thought so, I think I'm going for the Vainilla, unless I could get a U-Turn Revelation for the same price


I think Viansi or someone had the AM2 which is somewhat better than the 3, also, try using froogle (its a google application), I was able to get my revelation for 300 clams using it to find a retailer (without U-turn though  )


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

elmadaleno said:


> I think Viansi or someone had the AM2 which is somewhat better than the 3, also, try using froogle (its a google application), I was able to get my revelation for 300 clams using it to find a retailer (without U-turn though  )


The All Mountain 2 is way too high, like 7,000 or a little higher. The Vainilla RLC is 6,040, but I'm looking for a Vainilla R, which is like 5,xxx

Thanks


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> Zoke says no drops or jumps on the AM series. It may void your warranty. But we know they are just playing the old CYA game.
> 
> Anyway, if you think on going big, then the Pike is a much better option. Maybe the most reliable fork in 2005. Make a search on the suspension forum and check the reviews.


Then the Pike is the way to go. 20mm axel equals more upgrades and doug, but you win on stifness


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

ritopc said:


> Then the Pike is the way to go. 20mm axel equals more upgrades and doug, but you win on stifness


BTW... Congratulations on your new ride... It' really an Envy magnet!! Damn... well built, Horst link (if that matters), long travel... heck, even the color is nice!!

Don't get my comments on the Hayes too serious. As I said, it's a matter of personal preference and they just get the job done. Not fancy, but no slouch at all.

Again, congrats on the new bike!! Any date for its shakedown?? What are doctor's orders at the date??

Dude, we gotta put some dust on that ride! Before we put mud on it, hopefully.


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> Check out greenfishsports.com
> 
> They have the Rumble for under 230 bucks and they also have some sweet New Old Stock Shermans going at around 300 bucks. The Sherman was not breaking fast enough, so Manipoo dropped it off their line.  It's one of the most reliable forks Manitou has made, but they just dropped it off their line.


i liked the sherman firefly plus with the extra travel and 20mm axel for the additional 100 bucks.

when you said "not braking fast enough" did you mean break in period? or actual breaking/trashing of the fork?

geeze... haven't event tryied my new bike and already thinking on the other new bike... could it be an UGI attack???


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

ritopc said:


> upssss sorry, you asked where, not when. My mistake.
> 
> I saw it at Scott-riders, it was less than 5k pesos AFAIR. I thought it was a good price.
> 
> Do you know any other LBS at a similar price?


5K for a Pike?? WOW... They should have the Tora for around 3000 then!!

That's a hell of a good price even for the cheapest Pike! Man, why didn't I knew about it before.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

ritopc said:


> when you said "not braking fast enough" did you mean break in period? or actual breaking/trashing of the fork?


NOT BREAKING fast enough... I meant they were the most reliable fork in the Manitou line. More than Blacks which had a good record. At the time the Sherman was made, it was the only recommendable Manitou. They were rather heavy but reliable and loaded with features.

Most issues I remember with Shermans, were assembly related and SPV ones. The SPV ones are better suited for you because SPV in Manitous control bottom out, but the SPV damper was prone to failures and not good for small stuff.

If you can get one with TPC+ (not plain TPC) that's your ticket. TPC+ has an additional piston on compression that helps with bottom-out (not as good as Zokes, though) while TPC has not and is too linear. Not the best option for jumping, but really trick for trail riding.


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> BTW... Congratulations on your new ride... It' really an Envy magnet!! Damn... well built, Horst link (if that matters), long travel... heck, even the color is nice!!


don't you love that gun metal color, probably in some other color (yellow? rde? barnie purple ???) it would look really different and not as tough. Not that the color really matters but certainly it adds up.



Warp2003 said:


> Don't get my comments on the Hayes too serious. As I said, it's a matter of personal preference and they just get the job done. Not fancy, but no slouch at all.


None taken. I am well aware on some Hayes issues, like brake fading for instance. But what the heck, i'll give them a try before i decide to make any change. They could work for me, or maybe not. Time wll decide



Warp2003 said:


> Again, congrats on the new bike!! Any date for its shakedown?? What are doctor's orders at the date??
> 
> Dude, we gotta put some dust on that ride! Before we put mud on it, hopefully.


Doctor said everything the spine is fine, at least on the fracture area, the neck that's it (neither permanent damage nor sequels are expected). However, wearing a collar for so long have its consecuenses. Now I have to realign the spine at the lumbar an torso area, and it causes some disconfort once in a while (i am off work today due to a severe contracture in the torso area). Nothing that keeping doing excercise and therapy can't fix.

The estimated date for the inaugural ride is early May (doctor said i could start by now, but i doubt he has a really good image of what MTB implies). I will let you know. In the meantime I will have to wear a bucket on my chin to keep my drawling controlled.


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

ritopc said:


> don't you love that gun metal color, probably in some other color (yellow? rde? barnie purple ???) it would look really different and not as tough. Not that the color really matters but certainly it adds up.
> 
> None taken. I am well aware on some Hayes issues, like brake fading for instance. But what the heck, i'll give them a try before i decide to make any change. They could work for me, or maybe not. Time wll decide
> 
> ...


Rito... don't mind Warp'd mind comment about the hayes, they aren't perfect, but they serve their purpose! I'm going for an 8" rotor for the front!


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> If you can get one with TPC+ (not plain TPC) that's your ticket. TPC+ has an additional piston on compression that helps with bottom-out (not as good as Zokes, though) while TPC has not and is too linear. Not the best option for jumping, but really trick for trail riding.


Not that am or will become a DJer, I'm too old to do that. But i like to ride on rought stuff, the more difficult/technical the better. If i have a jump/drop in the sight though, i will give it a shoot. That's why i am looking for a fork that can eventually take a 3 foot drop with no complains (and doesn't sent me over the handle bars), yet has a nice all around performance.

I think the Pike match my needs, but now i'll search for some shermans TCP+.

one more thing, what do you think of Nixon's? are they worth it. I have the impression they are the lil bro of Sherman's and not sure they can handle the eventual 3 foot drop for a long time.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Nixons are nice, they are stiff and handle big drops, even though I would choose the Pike =D

On my HardRock I'm putting a Reba or maybe a Dirt Jam Pro


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

ritopc said:


> Not that am or will become a DJer, I'm too old to do that. But i like to ride on rought stuff, the more difficult/technical the better. If i have a jump/drop in the sight though, i will give it a shoot. That's why i am looking for a fork that can eventually take a 3 foot drop with no complains (and doesn't sent me over the handle bars), yet has a nice all around performance.
> 
> I think the Pike match my needs, but now i'll search for some shermans TCP+.
> 
> one more thing, what do you think of Nixon's? are they worth it. I have the impression they are the lil bro of Sherman's and not sure they can handle the eventual 3 foot drop for a long time.


Nixons?? They're a cool fork when they work and should fit your bill. Wait until later this year to see if they fixed all the bugs on the 2005 (tyres hitting the downtubes, damping not working, broken pushrods, etc.). And if they do, get one. They're nicely spec'ed.

Only forks worst related to


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> Nixons are nice, they are stiff and handle big drops, even though I would choose the Pike =D
> 
> On my HardRock I'm putting a Reba or maybe a Dirt Jam Pro


Thanks for the comments and advice.

Now is my turn to give you one. If the HardRock is gonna be your only bike, which I think will be, IMHO stay away from the DJ's. They are way too specifics, and you'll end up compromising in other areas/type of riding. Get the Reba instead; or a Pike for that matter.

As i said before, it's just an opinion. Maybe someone has a different perspective on this one.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

After a short discussion with 545 I believe I will try putting a Pike or a Reba. 
*crosses fingers* I hope the pike doesnt rip off the head tube lol *uncrosses fingers* 

Next year I'll be buying a freeride frame, possibly the Chameleon (I've heard it can handle FR) or a Azonic Steelhead.

The other day I saw a very nice Hard Rock DJ prepared with a dirtjump 1, looked preety awesome. Also 545 told me about a HR with a 888 or something like that... lol

If I put a Dirt Jam Pro to the Hard Rock it would be when I get my 2nd or 3rd bike...


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> After a short discussion with 545 I believe I will try putting a Pike or a Reba.
> *crosses fingers* I hope the pike doesnt rip off the head tube lol *uncrosses fingers*
> 
> Next year I'll be buying a freeride frame, possibly the Chameleon (I've heard it can handle FR) or a Azonic Steelhead.
> ...


Pike - too much travel for the frame. You'll rip it off sooner or later. At least ovalize the headtube.

Reba - Too light duty for repeated jumps. You'll bust the fork by jumping it.

If you're set on a Rock shox, the Tora 318 U-turn is better for those duties. It has chromoly stanchions and while heavy as a tank, will take the abuse and is far more adjustable than a DJ Zoke.

I would say Vanilla from the offerings of the mexican market. It can be converted to 100mm that would fit your frame correctly and it can take some abuse. At least more than the Reba. Use less sag to avoid bottom out in landings off from the sky.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

But I can adjust the travel of the pike without damaging it.. or am I wrong?

I've read that the Reba serves well for what I intend to do, I'm not RockShox orientated but I've seen those 2 forks are very good. 

What about a phaon heh? 

BTW I hate the Toras.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> But I can adjust the travel of the pike without damaging it.. or am I wrong?
> 
> I've read that the Reba serves well for what I intend to do, I'm not RockShox orientated but I've seen those 2 forks are very good.
> 
> ...


Go ahead... be our Guinea pig and let us know how does the HR frame holds up to the Pike or how does the Reba handles repeated drops.

The Phaon is very nice. It can be tuned to do what you want. Not very plush, but nice any way. It seems to like high G's

What you don't like about the Tora's? Any ride experience gone wrong? It's basically a Reba with a fixed floodgate and (much) beefier chassis. But to each his own...


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

You are killing my illusions of a pike  lol

If I find a cheap Phaon, i'll go for it.

Should I save me all this hassle and put a Fox 40 to the Hard Rock? I think it would hold it hahahaha.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> You are killing my illusions of a pike  lol
> 
> If I find a cheap Phaon, i'll go for it.
> 
> Should I save me all this hassle and put a Fox 40 to the Hard Rock? I think it would hold it hahahaha.


Take a look at the Suspension forum... I read somewhere that the U-turn on Pikes likes to creep back up... which in turn may damage your frame.

What does Specialized says about the max fork on that frame?? May void your warranty.


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## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> Go ahead... be our Guinea pig and let us know how does the HR frame holds up to the Pike or how does the Reba handles repeated drops.
> 
> The Phaon is very nice. It can be tuned to do what you want. Not very plush, but nice any way. It seems to like high G's
> 
> What you don't like about the Tora's? Any ride experience gone wrong? It's basically a Reba with a fixed floodgate and (much) beefier chassis. But to each his own...


I think the Tora as a Revelation with steel steer tube and stantchions and no floodgate.... Stronger, & heavier....


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## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

tacubaya said:


> You are killing my illusions of a pike  lol
> 
> If I find a cheap Phaon, i'll go for it.
> 
> Should I save me all this hassle and put a Fox 40 to the Hard Rock? I think it would hold it hahahaha.


LOL thread hijack  
How large drops or jumps are you planning to do with your hardrock?


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

I'm planning on doing extreme all mountain, with drops up to 4 ft.


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

*hahaha... it happened , now what??*



rzozaya1969 said:


> On the Hayes, you can only modulate how far the lever is via a small screw under the lever... also, they tend to unscrew while riding. You can fix that with loctite. I have some and, besides this, have worked flawlessly.


So it happened. On Sunday's ride, I started feeling the rear brake lever way too far in its stroke, I did not pay too much attention then, though. Today I was looking at the lever and realized I lost the screw that adjust the reach of the lever. Can I get this screw somewhere, or ..am I ... "screwed"?? I would like to have that adjustment.

I tryed to replace the screw with one of my Avid SD levers' but it did not fit.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

ritopc said:


> So it happened. On Sunday's ride, I started feeling the rear brake lever way too far in its stroke, I did not pay too much attention then, though. Today I was looking at the lever and realized I lost the screw that adjust the reach of the lever. Can I get this screw somewhere, or ..am I ... "screwed"?? I would like to have that adjustment.
> 
> I tryed to replace the screw with one of my Avid SD levers' but it did not fit.


You can get them at Viansi. That's the only thing I like about Hayes brakes, spares available everywhere.

That problem of yours is a common occurence with Hayes... that darn bolt coming off loose (or coming off at all).

The problem can be solved with just a drop of Loctite (the blue one)... but if you put too much loctite, you may never move the bolt again, which sounds like a good idea, but in the practice causes another problem (I don't remember which one, though).

Make a search on the brake time forum for you to see.

Bummer, man. Sorry to hear your having troubles with your bike.
How went the bleed?


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> You can get them at Viansi. That's the only thing I like about Hayes brakes, spares available everywhere.
> 
> That problem of yours is a common occurence with Hayes... that darn bolt coming off loose (or coming off at all).
> 
> ...


Thanks again dude. Now I am lusting for some Juicy 7's. Yet to try Magura though.



Warp2003 said:


> Bummer, man. Sorry to hear your having troubles with your bike.


It hasn't been that bad. In terms of the breaks, as my grama says, "It is probably the indian, not the arrow". I think it sums up to my unexperince with disc brakes.

Yet to find out the right setting of the suspension, but i haven't had time to play with them .. I am such a workoholic... damn me  . But then again, suspension is not really a problem, just a setting's matter.

Other than that, i really liked how the bike performed in the overall, and i don't have any other issue with it.



Warp2003 said:


> How went the bleed?


It went well, although i did not get the feeling on the levers i was looking for. For some reason i think I didn't do it right. I couldn't put the new cool stop pads in place with out been too close from each other; they rubbed with the disc on both sides. I had to put the old pads again.

The way I see it -or would like to be- i did not push the pistons all the way back before bleeding (this is a fact). What I am going to do in the weekend, is to open the hydro circuit, and then push the pistons all the way back. I think it will be easier with out the all pressure in the circuit fighting against me. Every time i tryed to push the pistons, they came back to place, like half a millimeter out; enough to rub the disc.

In my head it make sense, but maybe i am wrong. Maybe I have the much mentioned piston's tolerances problem.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

ritopc said:


> Thanks again dude. Now I am lusting for some Juicy 7's. Yet to try Magura though.


I'm positive you'll find a sweet setup soon and the UGI will go away. Brakes are one of those things you prefer to set and forget. If they work, you'll hardly get into UGI.



ritopc said:


> It hasn't been that bad. In terms of the breaks, as my grama says, "It is probably the indian, not the arrow". I think it sums up to my unexperince with disc brakes.


Yeah, there's a learning curve you'll shortly go through. Hydros are intimidating at first, but once you get the hold on them, they're so pleasant!



ritopc said:


> Yet to find out the right setting of the suspension, but i haven't had time to play with them .. I am such a workoholic... damn me  . But then again, suspension is not really a problem, just a setting's matter.


That is a search that never ends!!



ritopc said:


> It went well, although i did not get the feeling on the levers i was looking for. For some reason i think I didn't do it right. I couldn't put the new cool stop pads in place with out been too close from each other; they rubbed with the disc on both sides. I had to put the old pads again.
> 
> The way I see it -or would like to be- i did not push the pistons all the way back before bleeding (this is a fact). What I am going to do in the weekend, is to open the hydro circuit, and then push the pistons all the way back. I think it will be easier with out the all pressure in the circuit fighting against me. Every time i tryed to push the pistons, they came back to place, like half a millimeter out; enough to rub the disc.
> 
> In my head it make sense, but maybe i am wrong. Maybe I have the much mentioned piston's tolerances problem.


You're right. You need to push the pads all the way into the caliper to put new pads in. Otherwise you'll have too much fluid into the brake, to the point where you will not be able to fit the new pads. This is especially a problem with smaller reservoirs (Martas used to be headache).

I seem to recall that Hayes users usually need to put a business card between each piston and the rotor, when adjusting the brake the first time; otherwise they will rub.


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