# Finally finished the 'technical' XC HT build



## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Got the bike back yesterday from the shop, made some minor tweaks in the garage (they didn't do the high gear limit screw right, that little kind of stuff). And waiting for a remote handlebar fork open/lockout lever from E-Bay. Other than that it's done! 

On a side note, whoever said in a different forum that 11-speed XT is harder to shift than SLX is 100% right. It's not 'hard' to shift XT but now I know exactly what he meant, and I don't like it either. It's on/off for click up / click down, no modulation at all. If something is getting worn on the drivetrain and the barrel adjuster is not fine-tuning it out, you can't 1/2 downshift it like you can with SLX and older ones to get the gear in correctly. It's either clicked or not clicked, nothing in-between. You push down 1/2 to 3/4 of the way for a downshift, nothing happens in back. You have to push all the way to the click to upshift. That's fine if the drivetrain is all fresh components, and the chainline, derailleur hanger, and everything else is basically perfect. It may not be fine if one or more components are relatively worn compared with others. I'll live with XT for now but I may sell it used and go back to SLX soon.



Here is the Frankenstein experiment:

27.5" DIY bikes carbon frame, 18.5 inch seat tube, 70 degree head tube (maybe down to 68 w/29" fork), 2.6 lbs

29" Suntour Axon Werx-F 100mm travel, 3.35 lbs with thru-axle (I do not like that Q-loc axle, may buy an aftermarket substitute later)

11-speed drivetrain - the aforementioned XT shifter, previous XTR M9000 cranks, 32t chainring (for now, may do 26/38t without front derailleur later), 11-52t cassette, XT RD, no extender (seems OK without it, will change to Deore M5100 RD later), around 3.6 lbs with one chainring

Previous wheelset that's lightest for actual trail riding w/2.4 Hellkat front and 2.4 Rekon rear, around 8.7 lbs including cassette, rotors, sealant

One Up V2 Dropper post 150mm 1.1 lbs

Tektro Orion 4-Piston Brake Kit 1.15 lbs with calipers, hoses, shifters, without rotors

Misc components like handlebars, seat, dropper lever, headset/stem, pedals, etc. around 2.5 lbs

Total weight 23.0 lbs. I did it! I thought it would be somewhere between 23-24 lbs, calculated it should be pretty close to 23, it was. If I lightened up the tires it could go down to maybe 22.5 lbs but no point, the traction and braking would suffer too much on loose Southern California trails. Final cost including both new and previously cannibalized components, almost exactly $3000. Not cheap for a hardtail, but it can be done for making a 23 lb one with dropper post and real MTB tires. 

Will switch the rear to a Rekon 2.6 later, about the same weight as the 2.4. Front later to either Nevegal2 or Dissector 2.4 --- I absolutely need something up front with burly side knobs in this area of the USA; may even do a front semi-slick w/big side knobs. One bummer is that the chainstays are not as wide as I would have liked, but I think the Rekon 2.6 or similar will fit in back OK. Assegai 2.6 on another rim right now has a wobble and rubs against one chainstay so that may be a no-go for the rear on more challenging trails, oh well. The picture has a different wheelset that would make it 24.0 lbs, still not bad. Boy do those 27.5 wheels look small on that fork and 18.5 inch frame. And please pardon the closed cell foam tape job on top of the carbon seat. Looks horrible but saves a significant amount of weight.


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## cliffslocal (Dec 4, 2007)

I don’t understand that seat. What is the purpose of it? Why not just get a phenom.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

richj8990 said:


> And please pardon the closed cell foam tape job on top of the carbon seat. Looks horrible but saves a significant amount of weight.



lol, you could save even more weight by taking it off, plus it would be more comfortable!

Enjoy!


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

richj8990 said:


> Got the bike back yesterday from the shop, made some minor tweaks in the garage (they didn't do the high gear limit screw right, that little kind of stuff). And waiting for a remote handlebar fork open/lockout lever from E-Bay. Other than that it's done!
> 
> On a side note, whoever said in a different forum that 11-speed XT is harder to shift than SLX is 100% right. It's not 'hard' to shift XT but now I know exactly what he meant, and I don't like it either. It's on/off for click up / click down, no modulation at all. If something is getting worn on the drivetrain and the barrel adjuster is not fine-tuning it out, you can't 1/2 downshift it like you can with SLX and older ones to get the gear in correctly. It's either clicked or not clicked, nothing in-between. You push down 1/2 to 3/4 of the way for a downshift, nothing happens in back. You have to push all the way to the click to upshift. That's fine if the drivetrain is all fresh components, and the chainline, derailleur hanger, and everything else is basically perfect. It may not be fine if one or more components are relatively worn compared with others. I'll live with XT for now but I may sell it used and go back to SLX soon.
> 
> ...


Pardon the seat?
Sorry… no can do.
But it’s your bike so you’re the only one that has to pardon it.  
Thanks for not including the album link I this thread. Appreciate this. 
=sParty


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

But dat seat, yo. Straight outta da ghetto brah. You snag dat off da bag lady down da block or wut cuz? Needs some gang tags on it ASAP, yo. Fo real. Shiiiii...🤜🤘🖖👇😂


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## Arm&Hammer (Dec 19, 2020)

Just so much wrong here🙈


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Kill it with fire.

Nuke it from orbit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Sparticus said:


> Pardon the seat?
> Sorry… no can do.
> But it’s your bike so you’re the only one that has to pardon it.
> Thanks for not including the album link I this thread. Appreciate this.
> =sParty


What I could do is put a bike seat cover on and pretend it looks nicer for all the picky materialistic anal-retentives. And then take it right off after the picture and ride, instead of worrying how a bike looks for the approval of the perpetually unapproving. So many bike pictures out there, wonder if many are ridden more than 1000 miles a year after they took the picture and then put the bike right back in the garage for a month. This bike will proudly be dirty as hell in a month from now. That will irritate the perfectionists, and I'll just smirk a bit and ride by them. Our sport is dirty, it's not clean. Clean is tennis, clean is checkers.


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## Arm&Hammer (Dec 19, 2020)

richj8990 said:


> What I could do is put a bike seat cover on and pretend it looks nicer for all the picky materialistic anal-retentives. And then take it right off after the picture and ride, instead of worrying how a bike looks for the approval of the perpetually unapproving. So many bike pictures out there, wonder if many are ridden more than 1000 miles a year after they took the picture and then put the bike right back in the garage for a month. This bike will proudly be dirty as hell in a month from now. That will irritate the perfectionists, and I'll just smirk a bit and ride by them. Our sport is dirty, it's not clean. Clean is tennis, clean is checkers.


Can you at least level the seat and fix the front skewer lever?


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

richj8990 said:


> What I could do is put a bike seat cover on and pretend it looks nicer for all the picky materialistic anal-retentives. And then take it right off after the picture and ride, instead of worrying how a bike looks for the approval of the perpetually unapproving. So many bike pictures out there, wonder if many are ridden more than 1000 miles a year after they took the picture and then put the bike right back in the garage for a month. This bike will proudly be dirty as hell in a month from now. That will irritate the perfectionists, and I'll just smirk a bit and ride by them. Our sport is dirty, it's not clean. Clean is tennis, clean is checkers.


It may be the most outrageous thing I have seen on here in years.

The saddle is bat $hit. The defense of it is next level.

Love it. Made my day.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Honestly OP, until now I had figured you’d put a photo on here with that seat as a joke — to troll some funny feedback.

But you’re taking the joke a bit far, don’t you think?
=sParty


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I found a pic of rich heading out for a ride:


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

chazpat said:


> I found a pic of rich heading out for a ride:
> 
> View attachment 1958801


Duct pants!


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## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

Bike is cool looking, except that seat, please burn it quickly, i'll pay for a new one....lol


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

If you drop the 11-52t 11speed cassette for a normal 11speed cassette you can save a significant amount of weight. Please use those weight savings on a saddle that works for you and doesn't look like literal garbage.

Your plan for the 26t/38t is to manually shift it by hand? You make questionable decisions to save weight that only has a negative impact on your bike rides.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

cassieno said:


> If you drop the 11-52t 11speed cassette for a normal 11speed cassette you can save a significant amount of weight. Please use those weight savings on a saddle that works for you and doesn't look like literal garbage.
> 
> Your plan for the 26t/38t is to manually shift it by hand? You make questionable decisions to save weight that only has a negative impact on your bike rides.



11-46t is not enough range. The Shimano 11-46t cassette is 450g. My 11-52t's range from 400-490g. There is no 'significant' weight difference. It varies +/- 0.1 lbs.

I've already run 26/38 for about 1000 miles w/o front derailleur. You only end up using the 26t maybe 30 minutes every 50 miles or so climbing stuff that's more than a 5-6% grade. If the clutch is off it takes 10 seconds to change the chain over either at the bottom or top of the hill. It's the equivalent of adding 3 gears to an 11-speed and having 14 non-overlapping gear ratios. 

Of course my decisions are questionable: I thought of them myself. I didn't blindly follow others in making decisions. The double chainring doesn't have a negative impact on my rides because there is no front derailleur. Get it? 

When it comes right down to it, there are two types of riders: those that do everything possible to fit in socially, and those that do their own thing. The latter can be very annoying to the former, because the former thinks everyone should be like them...a follower.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

OK here is some really, really preliminary data on a few downhill runs so far (this new bike is XC II). It's already faster than the previous XC build on 2 of 3 segments; once I break the chain in and can run a more XC-oriented tire paired with a used cassette, that 3rd stat will probably fall too (I have a 2.4 DHRII on back right now). Yes, it's not as fast overall downhill as the AM bike, that's expected, but I have not optimized the tire combination yet either. For apples to apples, if the AM bike's fastest time on Hellkat / DHRII 2.4's, the new XC bike beat it downhill both times this tire combination was used on both bikes. In other words, I'm starting out breaking in a chain with my least-used cassette. Once that breaks in, these numbers for the new XC bike will get even better when I can start using other wheelset combinations with older cassettes, and start giving the AM bike a serious run for the money downhill, just as I had hoped. It's working! 

However, 60 psi for this Suntour Axon fork is not enough. Too much travel on level hardpack. Not a lot of noticeable pedal bob, but I had it on full compression for both lesser grades and it still used up 70-80% of the fork. Need to up the psi to 70, possibly a bit more, then I can start messing with turning down the compression and see how that affects the segment time. Fork worked well, but I have a nagging feeling the pedal efficiency was not optimal. Also still waiting on the remote handlebar lockout package (it doesn't have lockout on the fork dial), but that's only for longer mixed-elevation climbs in-between downhill sections. Not for turning it on 5 seconds or anything for a very short climb, that won't help. 




GradeOverall Finish (all other Strava segment riders)Tires matched vs. XC I best timeTires matched vs. AM best time% faster/slower vs. XC I best time%faster/slower vs. AM best time-8%3%n/an/a+3% faster-9% slower-6%16%n/a+8% faster+12% faster-4% slower-3%4%+6% faster+4% faster-2% slower-3% slower


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