# Sun-Ringle Black Flag XC wheelset review



## backlaboy (Oct 6, 2007)

I can't find any reviews on these wheels. They seem too good to be true; sub 1300g for less than 400. Please help!


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## dmcgoy (Apr 16, 2006)

That's because no one can get a set.


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## backlaboy (Oct 6, 2007)

*I got this from an online dealer:*

"We have sold quite a few, and haven't heard anything bad back from anyone. The disc ones are 1420'ish, and the non disc are 1260'ish. But as with anything the extra weight loss is at the expense of strength. It depends more on your riding style more than anything. If you are a smooth rider you should be fine. I'm 150 and I destroy anything lightweight in the wheel dept. because I'm not smooth or talented."

I am a tad heavier but I like to climb with my single speed. I guess they can work for me. Any opinions?


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## dmcgoy (Apr 16, 2006)

backlaboy said:


> "We have sold quite a few, and haven't heard anything bad back from anyone. The disc ones are 1420'ish, and the non disc are 1260'ish. But as with anything the extra weight loss is at the expense of strength. It depends more on your riding style more than anything. If you are a smooth rider you should be fine. I'm 150 and I destroy anything lightweight in the wheel dept. because I'm not smooth or talented."
> 
> I am a tad heavier but I like to climb with my single speed. I guess they can work for me. Any opinions?


Who? No one I've seen has it in stock. It's a bit suspicious that such a light and cheap wheelset has so few user comments.

Here's a WW forum thread with one person claiming they own it:
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2224&highlight=black+flag


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## backlaboy (Oct 6, 2007)

*Quote is from Cambria!*

Of course they sell the wheel set so they could be biased. Hopefully the employees there are riders. Most riders don't screw over other riders.


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## backlaboy (Oct 6, 2007)

*BTW, thanks for the link.*

I think I may buy them. If I do I will post a review. However, I ride a 18.5ld single speed with a carbon front fork. No north shore drops for me. Thus, my review wont cover every riding style.


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## dmcgoy (Apr 16, 2006)

Please, post a review, if you get them. Is cambria claiming they have them in stock? Their website says "7-10 days"......which I take to mean "not in stock".


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## backlaboy (Oct 6, 2007)

*Cambria told me the same*

I ordered them and yes, they are out of stock.

BTW, my single speed is roughly 19lbs right now. I can shave a 1lb with these wheel sets and another by running Ritchey Z-min tires. I just bought my 1st full suspension and I realized I like the simplicity and responsiveness of a light hard tail. Its listed on Craigs list; 2007 Mongoose Canaan Elite. Pass it on. I don't know why I am telling you this but I have been sick for a month now and I am going crazy!:madman:


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## dmcgoy (Apr 16, 2006)

Make sure they don't charge your credit card until they ship.......


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## kylebaxter (Jul 11, 2006)

I spoke to Sun-Ringle multiple times this summer and they said the wheels are out of stock for good.


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## NJ-XC-Justin (Jan 1, 2006)

kylebaxter said:


> I spoke to Sun-Ringle multiple times this summer and they said the wheels are out of stock for good.


But the disc-specific version is new for '08, right? It was rim-only in years past I thought.

-


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## backlaboy (Oct 6, 2007)

*Response from Sun*



kylebaxter said:


> I spoke to Sun-Ringle multiple times this summer and they said the wheels are out of stock for good.


This is an email I got from Sun. I asked them if they no longer make the Black Flag.

Hi Robert, that is not true if you go to www.sun-ringle.com click on
MTB then wheel sets XC you can find our Black Flag and Black Flag Ceramic
wheel sets. So spread the word we are still making this wheel set. 
Cheers,

Colin Powell
Hayes Bicycle Group - warranty tech support
Hayes Disc Brakes - Sun/Ringle - Mantiou Suspension
1-888-686-3472
[email protected] - [email protected] -
[email protected]
www.hayesbicycle.com


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## backlaboy (Oct 6, 2007)

*Colin Powell now works at Hayes!*



backlaboy said:


> This is an email I got from Sun. I asked them if they no longer make the Black Flag.
> 
> Hi Robert, that is not true if you go to www.sun-ringle.com click on
> MTB then wheel sets XC you can find our Black Flag and Black Flag Ceramic
> ...


Is this where he wound up after working for Bush? I hope this email is bullsh*t.


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## ebrown247 (Jul 5, 2007)

I've been looking for these wheels for two years now and can not find them either. Great to see them in disc now. I am 190 and break everything I touch so I am looking forward to trying these if I can find them. If I find them I'll post a review this summer. If anybody finds a set send me an email. In the meantime I'll probably holler at Sun Ringle/Hayes in the comming weeks. 

As you all mention they have been terminally unavailable for at least two years...WTF Hayes Bicycle Group? Stop "acquiring" every small company that's not nailed down and make some GD parts!!


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

http://www.beyondbikes.com/BB/ItemDesc.asp?IC=SU3662

http://www.beyondbikes.com/BB/items.asp?cc=WHMDSU


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## ebrown247 (Jul 5, 2007)

I dare ya to find another one...:thumbsup:


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## NJ-XC-Justin (Jan 1, 2006)

Tiffster said:


> http://www.beyondbikes.com/BB/ItemDesc.asp?IC=SU3662
> 
> http://www.beyondbikes.com/BB/items.asp?cc=WHMDSU


Anyone besides Beyond Bikes selling these? It's a great deal but there's just too much bad press with this company.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Haven't you guys heard of this thing yet?

It's called google!

ANOTHER Link

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/WH308A04-Sun+Ringle+Black+Flag+Xc+Wheelset.aspx

Jeez oh.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=26301

http://www.ibikedoyou2.com/product/WE2361/Sun_Ringle_Black_FlagBlk_Wheelset_2428h.html

http://smartbikeparts.com/search_details.php?itm=WE2361

If Sun are making them then they will come back in stock.


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## ebrown247 (Jul 5, 2007)

Jeez Ooh my foot!

Jenson...out of stock
smart bike...rim brake only
chain reaction..rim brake only, out of stock, and in the UK so doesn't count


didn't get to check the other yet but it's just what the ealier posts in the thread said...not available. 

Many pics in online catalogs...no actual product (disc) available


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## backlaboy (Oct 6, 2007)

*I got a pair from Cambria.*

I think they are always back ordered that's why noone has them in stock. I put an order in at Cabria and they shipped several weeks later.

I am currently having problems with them. I had to send them back to Hayes. The weld that joins the ends of the rims together can be felt along the rim surface. This shouldn't be a problem for those that buy the disk rim. Anyhow, the brakes "stuttered" when applied and they squeeled like crazy. I should get them back soon. I will keep everyone posted.

P.S. They weighed in at 1376g not sub 1300g as advertised.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

The point being that all these places stock them. Sun have said they do indeed still make them so would it need anything more than to phone one of the places and ask them to order a set in?


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## ebrown247 (Jul 5, 2007)

backlaboy said:


> I think they are always back ordered that's why noone has them in stock. I put an order in at Cabria and they shipped several weeks later.
> 
> I am currently having problems with them. I had to send them back to Hayes. The weld that joins the ends of the rims together can be felt along the rim surface. This shouldn't be a problem for those that buy the disk rim. Anyhow, the brakes "stuttered" when applied and they squeeled like crazy. I should get them back soon. I will keep everyone posted.
> 
> P.S. They weighed in at 1376g not sub 1300g as advertised.


backlaboy...

any other probs? What do you weigh? Ride?

thanks bud.

Point taken Tiffster. Kudos to these shops for trying to get them to us.


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## backlaboy (Oct 6, 2007)

*more info*

I am roughly 175lb right now. I can get all the way down to 150lb when I am in peek condition. I currently have these wheels on my SS. I have a rigid carbon fork. I basically ride uphill and smooth on the down hills. No jumping or bonzai downhills for me.


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## backlaboy (Oct 6, 2007)

*Review for Sun-Ringle Black Flag*

FYI

I finally posted my review in the "reviews" section for these wheels.

:madmax:


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## Rufudufus (Apr 27, 2004)

backlaboy said:


> FYI
> 
> I finally posted my review in the "reviews" section for these wheels.
> 
> :madmax:


Musta got 'disappeared', there are no reviews posted for Blackflags.


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## dmcgoy (Apr 16, 2006)

http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Wheelset/product_126651.shtml


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## backlaboy (Oct 6, 2007)

Maybe it needs to get approved before it is posted.


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

FYI they are still available. PM me if you really want a pair, I can guarantee you will have them in your possession in about a week. Do I ride with them, or even want them? Eh, I'm a Mavic guy myself. I'm just saying they are available.


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## thetschappats (Mar 27, 2007)

I bought a pair of OEM Disc-O-Flea 26" from Bob's Betters Bikes last year (I think they were $250). It has the Dirty Flea Hubs on DSC1 rims (both 32 hole). The only Weird thing was the straight gauge spokes with chrome nipples. I swapped out the spokes with DT Revos. Final result: 1586gr. Not bad for a $300 investment. I converted them to tubeless, and I like them.

I am glad to see a light ceramic rim! I am just now retiring a Sun CR17a ceramic wheel on a Nuke Proof Carbon Ti rear wheel (I am showing my age now!). It is still running true with even spoke tension! It is a great wheel, but I just wanted to loose some weight.


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## the locust (Jan 18, 2005)

i have a non-existent set of black flag 29er wheels which are 1525gm / pair and i can tell you for sure that colin powell is actually a sun employee, actaully he is a teammate of mine as well nice guy, but dont call him co-lin powell or he gets testy it's coll-in powell.

anyways check em out, i'm not saying they are ever coming out but damn they are a nice set of wheels.


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## kdiddy (Jul 14, 2005)

thetschappats said:


> I converted them to tubeless, and I like them.
> 
> I am glad to see a light ceramic rim!


What did you use to run these Tubeless. I have an old set of Disc-o-lites that have the same rim, but haven't tried using them tubeless. 
Also, from what I've read the rims aren't ceramic-coated, the hub bearings are ceramic.


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## backlaboy (Oct 6, 2007)

I run them with tubes. I think the >2008 models have cermic.


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## backlaboy (Oct 6, 2007)

*here is a pic of the braking surface*

BTW, the rims came back from the factory like this (with no paint on the brake surface). They claim they did not have any fully painted rims to give me. Ahyhow, you can see the ripple on the brake surface. They are going to send me some extra rims for me to inspect. I will pick the "best" one and they will lace them up. I dont see why they dont just send me a new set that works.


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## thetschappats (Mar 27, 2007)

kdiddy said:


> What did you use to run these Tubeless. I have an old set of Disc-o-lites that have the same rim, but haven't tried using them tubeless.
> Also, from what I've read the rims aren't ceramic-coated, the hub bearings are ceramic.


I am using a Stans no-tubes conversion kit with rim strip. It works great.

The DSC-1 is not ceramic coated. I have the Disc-O-Flea wheels and not the new Black Flag disc wheels that this post is talking about. I just wanted to show the weight of the hubs since they are the same in both wheel sets. I was glad that SUN has a new ceramic rim, not that I have one.


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## ruffrider (Jan 16, 2008)

I have been racing a set of the 2009 Sun Black Flags and they are sick light while surprisingly durable. If you ride clean and take good lines then you will love these wheels, if you don't then they are not for you. Remember, if you want Ferrari performance then you better be ready for the maintenance to boot. Just like anything high end. That means be prepared to do minor truing to ensure longevity, which is totally reasonable for the benefits of this wheelset.


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## barfzilla (Jan 9, 2008)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338225059&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNARL:US:1123

seems pretty cheap for the weight.


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## Scimitar (Jul 14, 2006)

I just got a set of the 2009 Ceramic bearing disc version. Excited to get these on my new Mach 4.










Front weight










Rear weight










Included skewers










Included rim strip x 2


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## stolegrom (Oct 14, 2009)

If someone ride v-brake, and wants this wheelset, hurry up

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=26300


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## backlaboy (Oct 6, 2007)

*I am selling my set*

They are super light and accelerate with authority. I got them rebuilt just before the warranty expired and I have never ridden them since as I now have a dedicated single speed wheelset. Bearings were replaced in the front and the whole free wheel replaced on the back. Anyone interested? I will be posting them on Ebay.


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## stolegrom (Oct 14, 2009)

stolegrom said:


> If someone ride v-brake, and wants this wheelset, hurry up
> 
> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=26300


Now, they have disc option, too.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=26301


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## jokermtb (Mar 11, 2004)

My girlfriend got a set of these wheels for her xc race bike, and also built up another set of wheels using the black flag rims on King hubs [for another bike of hers]. She had high hopes for them, until she overheard me cursing madly from the garage as I struggled to get a broken-in Kenda Karma onto the rim.

All I can say is that *I ABSOLUTELY HATE THE RIMS!* The wheelset is super light, nice spokes, wonderfully smooth hubs, but the outside diameter of the rim sidewall is wrong. I have to use steel motorcycle tire spoons to get tires on/off the rim. And she'll never be able to change a flat - it's hard even for me to get the tires over the rim. I've tried many different tires, from different brands on these rims to see if maybe it was the tire's beads were too "tight" - NOPE!

I then thought it was a one-off fluke, but her other wheelset [King hubs, with the Black Flag rims] was equally difficult to get a tire on it. When one of her other riding ladyfriend heard about her Black Flag tire mounting woes, she said "yeah, wow! I have the same wheels and I have to take it to a bike shop to get the tires swapped out".....

I emailed Sun-Ringle/Hayes, and their response was that "yeah, the rim outside diameter makes it a "bit" more difficult to get a tire on/off, and all rims are like this nowdays".....Nowdays? Did I miss something?

So, I'm currently looking for a rim that has the same spoke length that the Black flags use, so I can swap out the rims for something with a "normal" outside diameter rim sidewall. Any suggestions?

Too bad really, cuz the wheelset is a fantastic piece.


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## poontank (Apr 5, 2004)

I'm selling mine. I rode them once and now they just hang on the wall. I had them listed in the classifieds, but no one was interested. $500 and they can be yours.


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