# Shock strength



## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

What is the strongest 6.5 inch shock out there?including aftermarket. Im thinking either the fox rc 6.5 inch with piggyback resevoir, or a romic with titanium shaft, what are these rear shocks suitable for?


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## The Dude (Jan 19, 2004)

potvinwannab said:


> What is the strongest 6.5 inch shock out there?including aftermarket. Im thinking either the fox rc 6.5 inch with piggyback resevoir, or a romic with titanium shaft, what are these rear shocks suitable for?


strength? are you using it for a trailer tire chock? dude you have to elaborate on what you mean by strength. people go big on all sorts of rear shocks man.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Do you mean the rigidity of the body? Durability of the seals? Quality of the dampening?

As for quality, Avalanche Racing is the way to go.

RCs are outdated. Romics are alright. The shaft isn't Titanium, it might have a Ti spring.


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

I would look towards the Fox DHX. Great blend of durability, weight, damping, and versatility.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

LOLZ I MEANS WHICH ONE WILL TAKE THE HITS BETTER. i heard the rc's are pretty good


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

I would go for dhx if it came in 6.5 inch size :'(


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2006)

Hits?

You still have to be more specific, are you looking for a shock for huge hucks and drops, downhill courses, gaps etc....What bike is going on? 

There is no great shock out there, some people like the dhx, some like the 5th element and others like romic or avy or manitou, it depends mostly on the rider and what they want to do. If you set the shock up correctly then its going to work well for whatever application you chose. If not its going to ride like crap.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

FIIINNNEEEEEE a 6.5 inch rear shock that will take a 6 foot drop and possibly up to 10 foot


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Ojai Bicyclist said:


> I would look towards the Fox DHX. Great blend of durability, weight, damping, and versatility.


me no likeie


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

Will this romic take the 6 footers or so i want it to?

https://i22.ebayimg.com/03/i/07/95/0f/86_1.JPG[IMG]

Description:Romic rear shock for full suspension mountain bike. 6.5 inches by 1.5 inches with a titanium nitride shaft. Lightweight and strong. Compression and rebound adjustments. Custom valved.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Custom valved for the previous rider/frame, not you.

Difficult to say. Depends on the frame design (leverage ratios), rider weight, rider style, and rider's ability.


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## coma13 (Sep 3, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> me no likeie


Have you ever ridden one?


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## Kenny C. (Feb 13, 2006)

potvinwannab said:


> I would go for dhx if it came in 6.5 inch size :'(


I have a DHX 5.0 coil as my shock and I can adjust it to 6.5 I think it might just be how the suspension works on my bike..let me check..Yeah, it has an option on the frame.


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## coma13 (Sep 3, 2005)

He's talking about a 6.5" Eye to Eye shock, not 6.5" of travel... I hope.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz yes 6.5 inch eye to eye, whih is why i was surpried that someone reccomended a dhx


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## nano5467 (Jun 2, 2006)

i was gonna help but u just said "lolz" so nvm


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

nano5467 said:


> i was gonna help but u just said "lolz" so nvm


HAHAHAHA!

And to the OP. The more and more I ride I'm finding out people are buying stuff WAY out of their league. I'm very guilty myself too.
Anyways, my point is, for 6-10ft drops, most mid. level shocks will hang in there fine, you don't need to spend an arm and a leg for the latest and greatest. Pick up a Vanilla RC if you can find a good deal, or something around the same price range. I'm sure you will be more than happy and never even come close to maxing out the shocks proformance.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

hey im a heavy rider and plus there is always room for improvement so i would rather gofor the highest quality possible and work my way up to giving it a run for my money then starting of with some rock shox deluxe, mving to sum air shock, then to a dhx or equivalent, it would be cheaper, faster and more enjoyable to go streight to whatever is best available, im still vary young and am not looking forward to stopping at one ride style


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz n whats so bad about saying lolz my friend


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

potvinwannab said:


> hey im a heavy rider and plus there is always room for improvement so i would rather gofor the highest quality possible and work my way up to giving it a run for my money then starting of with some rock shox deluxe, mving to sum air shock, then to a dhx or equivalent, it would be cheaper, faster and more enjoyable to go streight to whatever is best available, im still vary young and am not looking forward to stopping at one ride style


I hear you, I'm 230lbs, so I have big guy phobia with my equiptment. I just picked up a Demo 9 and a 888RC2X because I was scared to crack a frame or break my fork. I was just pointing out that the more I ride the less I think I needed that big of a bike or that nice of a fork. I bet I would be fine back on a Bighit with a Super T & Vanilla R (but I'd NEVER give up my setup, it's the best feeling bike I've ever ridden. And who knows, maybe one day I'll be good enough to push the bikes limits) I was just saying that most DECENT equiptment will work perfictly for the avrage, non-pro level, rider.
Anyways, I'd go for a Vanilla RC, and if you don't like the feeling of the shock, send it to PUSH and have them custom valve and tune it for you. I hear that they can make the RC feel just as good as a DHX.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

potvinwannab said:


> lolz n whats so bad about saying lolz my friend


Dude, any of the coilover shocks common to freeride bikes will work. DHX, Roco, swinger, fifth, romic... You're not going to blow them up as long as you aren't riding a bike with a stupid high leverage ratio. Just make sure that you get the spring rate right and get it tuned to your weight. I find tons of big riders who have their bikes undersprung because they're too lazy to switch out the coil, its asking to trash a shock in no time...

BTW, @240lbs, I run a swinger 4-way with a 750 # spring. I've started cracking a weld on one of the shock mounts, but the shock itself is still good to go and I have punished it.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

even that wee little romic that i posted? Because 10 feet is awfully high and i dont know how anyone actually does a drop that high infact 5 feet is urine inducing for me but i plan to learn to do these drops.


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

Archdukeferdinand said:


> Dude, any of the coilover shocks common to freeride bikes will work. DHX, Roco, swinger, fifth, romic... You're not going to blow them up as long as you aren't riding a bike with a stupid high leverage ratio. Just make sure that you get the spring rate right and get it tuned to your weight. I find tons of big riders who have their bikes undersprung because they're too lazy to switch out the coil, its asking to trash a shock in no time...
> 
> BTW, @240lbs, I run a swinger 4-way with a 750 # spring. I've started cracking a weld on one of the shock mounts, but the shock itself is still good to go and I have punished it.


What's your leverage ratio? I'm around the same weight as you with a 6-way w/ 600lb spring and I'll be damned bacause I can't get the sag right at all. I'm only getting 1/2 - 3/4 of what I need, and have the preload backed off almost completly. My ratio is 3:1 (I'm not exactly sure but I'm assuming leverage ratio is an important factor on spring rate)


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Archdukeferdinand said:


> Dude, any of the coilover shocks common to freeride bikes will work. DHX, Roco, swinger, fifth, romic... You're not going to blow them up as long as you aren't riding a bike with a stupid high leverage ratio. Just make sure that you get the spring rate right and get it tuned to your weight. I find tons of big riders who have their bikes undersprung because they're too lazy to switch out the coil, its asking to trash a shock in no time...
> 
> BTW, @240lbs, I run a swinger 4-way with a 750 # spring. I've started cracking a weld on one of the shock mounts, but the shock itself is still good to go and I have punished it.


750 is real high for that shock. You're working the rebound harder, and you risk blowing it. That's why most people had issues with 5th's and Swinger's failing.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

how do you calculate leverage ratio?


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

potvinwannab said:


> how do you calculate leverage ratio?


Total amount of rear wheel travel divided by stroke length. 
ie... my demo 9
rear wheel travel - 9in 
stroke length - 3in
9/3 = 1
so for every 3in my rear wheel travels, the stroke compresses 1in. 3:1 leverage ratio


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## karpiel666 (Jan 7, 2005)

pshh you guys are lightweights, im 270 nekkid with a lean mass of about 250#. on my stinky I killed 3 fox vanilla r's. The pleload screw actually fatigued by about half an inch on 2 of them. so stay away from them. but on my azonic which I have had for about a year now I have a vanilla rc with a 700# spring and havent had problems with it, and that has taken plenty 5 foot to flats and lots of hard urban riding with stairgaps etc. and the only problem ive had so far is a snapped rebound knob. If money is not a problem I would go with an avalanche, but untill you are actually riding the bike hard, any mid level downhill shock should work.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

*Avalanche!!!*

Like what has already been said - AVALANCHE is THE shock if you want durability. Me and my friends have blown them all up except for the AVY's and that includes ALL Fox, 5th (3 times), Romic, Swinger, etc. etc. AVY's are made with a thicker/stronger shaft and seals - it's basically a scaled down motorcycle shock. They're expensive but you get what you pay for!!!

END OF STORY!

G MAN


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

XSL_WiLL said:


> 750 is real high for that shock. You're working the rebound harder, and you risk blowing it. That's why most people had issues with 5th's and Swinger's failing.


Thanks mom. When a heavier weight is on the pedals it effects the coil too, right? Maybe I miss some of the finer points of the physics involved but all I know is that it doesn't top out, it doesn't pogo, it feels good, pedals well, I beat the **** out of it daily... Maybe you're right, but its what manipoo recommended to me when I called them from the LBS setting up mah bike.

I rode it for a year with the preload cranked way the **** up too, and just recently started messing with having more sag, better small bump compliance. Doesn't feel as nice to me though, think I'm going back.

Tell you what, if I end up blowing the rebound on the shock, I owe you a coke...


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

aww unno id love to get an avalanche but cant find a 6.5 incher looks to me like im going for the rc 800 lb spring piggyback resevoir 12 click adjustment and optional sunroof


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

potvinwannab said:


> aww unno id love to get an avalanche but cant find a 6.5 incher looks to me like im going for the rc 800 lb spring piggyback resevoir 12 click adjustment and optional sunroof


AH - you might be right. Another option is Stratos - they're pretty bombproof AND affordable. http://www.stratosusa.com/main.html

Good luck,

G MAN


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

whats the leverage ration on single pivot?


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

potvinwannab said:


> whats the leverage ration on single pivot?


Look at what I posted above to figure out leverage ratio. Ever bike is different depending on total travel and shock stroke length, single pivot or not.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

yeah but i dont know how much rear travel i have  so i was wondering if there was an average or if anyone could tell me the travel on a gary fisher joshua rear?


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

potvinwannab said:


> yeah but i dont know how much rear travel i have  so i was wondering if there was an average or if anyone could tell me the travel on a gary fisher joshua rear?


You're trying to get the strongest DH/FR shock available to put on a fisher? :skep:


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

and what rong with that?its a good frame and gary fisher isnt crap unno, and they make downhill bikes do they not


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

if i take the bumper out of the rear shock do i get more travel? or is it just there to stop the shock from bottoming out so much that it snaps in half?


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

potvinwannab said:


> yeah but i dont know how much rear travel i have  so i was wondering if there was an average or if anyone could tell me the travel on a gary fisher joshua rear?


Come on man, try some reasearch for yourself insted of relying on a bunch of other people's advice. Go to the garyfisher site and look, or find a review.


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## maineride (May 13, 2006)

Thye bumper is in place so metal does not come in direct contact in the event of the shock reaching the end of its travel. In plain english, its like a pillow.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

i tried man belive me i tried buh joshua is no longer listed and all the reviews do is tell me how much ppl like the bike(but thats for ME to decide) i think it has 4 inches but not sure


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

so if i take it off or cut it slightly i get more travel?


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

ok definitley 4 inches jus found it on epinions, which mean i got a 2.66:1ish travel ratio


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Don't cut it off.

It's there to make sure metal doesn't make contact with metal. The rubber is able to compress to an extent.

The Joshua's sucked. Trek/Gary Fisher/Bontrager is just now starting to make a comeback in the DH/FR market.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

*Gasp* Explain your reasoning behind this its strong beefy so what its y frame it looks good to me

besides only the joshua frame all the components are different from the joshua bike


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

It's not strong or beefy. And the design is outdated. It's a URT (Unified Rear Triangle).


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

have you ever owned one? i dont see how it isnt as strong as the next bike providing the next bike isnt a vps or iron horse yakuza, and i dont see whats wrong with a urt


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

I work at 2 different shops. We used to sell them.

Crappy welds, design, and tubing. Also a very inefficient design (which is why they don't do it anymore).

Not to mention it's a Trek product. My friend is an avid fan of Trek. He rides CROSS COUNTRY. And he's still cracked five Trek frames.

I don't see why you're so defensive about it. Facts are facts.

Seeing as how 3 foot drops scare you sh1tless (taken from other thread). I doubt you'll ever break it. But a better bike certainly will make the ride more enjoyable and instill confidence.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz because all reviews say its great and plus ive mentioned it 3 or 4 times and no1 except you sed it was a piece of junk, also i have myn in my living room and the welds are not crap, though the 4 inch tubes make it look like a bike that is begging for attention, when i saw the frame it looked like a department store thing but it looks pretty tough, i personally dont think an old design means its utterly useless, it just means its an older design to me and that it isnt as efficient as todays systems but not neccesarily weaker, but owel its your word against...well i dont know all the satisfied joshua owners around the world but alot of people we'll see whos right when i work up the balls to take it off anything more than 5 feet


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

"You're trying to get the strongest DH/FR shock available to put on a fisher?"


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz he didnt say joshua that was gary fisher in general


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2006)

Save your money and buy something real....


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## Don Juan (May 28, 2006)

Oh jezis. Seriously guy, the Joshua was a budget version of the Y, a project which I & a couple others (also now regulars on mtbr) worked on in the early 90s. You could say I know a little about that Joshua of yours as well. Compared to what was out at the time, they didn't totally suck (compared to what we have today though...), however, there were some serious shortcomings to the design & the concept of URTs that made them, at best, a somewhat acceptable solution for certain types of light xc riding. This was apparrent early on, but the project went forward anyay, because The Brand was non-existent in FS bikes, and needed a presence. Marketing decided they looked flashy enough to do it, and viola. The actual originator of the design was flyingsuperpetis, and even he'd given up on the concept by the time Trek got their hands on it. When they brought us in, well, it was an interesting experience. But, in the end, they did sell, and The Company did indeed make their millions on it.

Let me be clear about this. Your Joshua was not made for log travel pistons, not made for safe high speed handling, and was in no way made with 5 foot drops in mind. Riding like that, you WILL break that frame, quickly, and probably injure yourself in the process.

I'm all for making what you have work, and keeping favorite old bikes alive, but I would definitely draw the line long before doing what you're considering. Be careful, have fun, & be SAFE.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

ah jeesh seriously awww man this sux you know i saw the frame for a great price and being new to freeride and biking in general it said gary fisher so i snatched it up, i mean i could have gotten the idrive or fsr frame for 100 more, but hey the joshua looked just as attractive and "handbuilt in the usa" to boot, owel i guess i will ride it till it dies, i mean to tell you the truth i dont know whos word to take the people who reviewed it, or yours, i knew someone who rode his aggresively and its still immaculate but owel, can someone tell me what to look for in a good frame for when this one takes a huge dump on me, i mean this joshua has great welds, very strong tubing, and an alright geometry when coupled with the duro fork i put on, yes its a single pivot but thats the way i like it simple effective and less moving parts to go wrong, so you think this thing will snap if i take it off a 5 footer? or are you saying the gary fisher joshua bike sucked meaning the componenents etc. because the frame looks very nice to me but hey what do i know

and i know everyone who owned a department store bike says this but my old supercycle ds when through hell and back and never quit on me, through doing stairs, 3 footers, rocky terrain, hours a day of riding, and i only got rid of it because 1)one day both the rims bent on speed drop of one foot , and 2) i got my joshua FRAME which i am building but, i mean could the joshua possibly be werse then my 150 canadian tire special? My most memorable moment on my old supercycle was reaching 60 km downhill and beating my uncle on his road bike


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

just searched up the trek y...that thing isnt looking so hot either


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## Don Juan (May 28, 2006)

It doesn't sound like you are capable of grasping the point.


I tried.


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

potvinwannab said:


> lolz he didnt say joshua that was gary fisher in general


Isn't the Joshua a Gary Fisher "in general?"


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

My god, n00b alert??


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? what is the point i am supposed to grasp? Because what i gather is that you guys all say the joshua is sh!t and that it will blowup if i sit on it, you say it has crappy welds(not true) flawed design (indeed true, but i dont mind) and that its all around a bad frame which is up to me to decide because if i were to listen to what people said according to reviews this is a great bike according to you it is a piece of utter crap, majority rules it would be a good bike, but im not like that<----which is why this thread is called "shock strength" not "is my bike a piece of crap?" i truley will decide if its good or not i spent very little on it i have nothing to loose! now lets get bak on topic


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Touchy touchy. Buyer's remorse, and blind product loyalty. Sound's like todd_freeride.

Do you weld? Do you know what makes a weld good or bad? Do you know anything about metallurgy?


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> me no likeie


Yeah, I don't like stuff that breaks after the third ride either :eekster:


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

ahuh i c mhhhm i try to end this redundant conversation about my supposed jalopy frame but i guess you cant drop it, i suppose your some welding expert? wether you are or not dont go on assuming i dont know what a good or bad weld is i know a good weld when i see one, these are good welds, hand done oh, wait, maybe gary fisher went and hired a couple of apes to do the welding on the joshua, then glue on a strip of metal to make the welds look good, because you see maybe he had a master plan that millions of people would buy this bike ride it off a clif, then it will blow up killing the rider instantaniously so mr fisher could rule the world! thanks for bringing this to my attention before i got on phew and just to think i could have become part of his diabolical plan thanks a billion!


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

look buddy what you think people go streight from tricycle to being proffesionals, yes i am new to freeride/mountain biking whatsit to you?


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2006)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Don't cut it off.
> 
> It's there to make sure metal doesn't make contact with metal. The rubber is able to compress to an extent.
> 
> The Joshua's sucked. Trek/Gary Fisher/Bontrager is just now starting to make a comeback in the DH/FR market.


This thread has turned into stupidest argument ever. XSL will is right, end of story. The Joshua frame wasn't meant to be taken off a 10 foot drop. When that frame was made free-riding didn't exist the way it does now. Frames and suspension technology have come a long way since 1999. If you see people breaking frames from specialized, rocky mountain and other companies that were designed to take the abuse, why in the world would you think an outdated joshua would be able to hold up to the same abuse. If you do decide to take that frame off anything bigger then 3 foots drops repeatedly you are going to hurt yourself.

Another questions you should be asking yourself is why do you want to invest 200-300 dollars into it when you could put that money towards a new frame that was designed to take the abuse you want to give it.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

who said anything bout a 10 foot drop?  that was the shock not the frame, if anyone ever breaks a rocky mountain on the more realistic 5 footers i could possibly take they weight 800 pounds and landed sideways. and what you think parts arent transferrable? trust me no parts from 1999 on this bike and when it blows like you are all predicting ill have a new frame ready to give tem a home. The point is im terrified of heights, i ride bikes for speed, my 60 pound supercycle did 40 kmh on flats with me in the saddle, 60 kmh downhill and well pretty low uphill  i might do the occasional 3-5 foot drop and if the supercycle could handle it just fine then so will the joshua


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

ok this one is a long shot but hey the price is right and they look like they have all the features but i can see them failing on the downhill you tell me http://www.fastace.net/product-overview-dirt-bike.htm


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

There's a reason that nobody's ever heard of them.

I hope your headtube sheers off from the additional height added by your Suntour fork. Then again, you'll probably never leave the ground, so it's a draw.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

*very immature*

excuse me? you HOPE my headtube sheers off, possibly causing damage, and death? what the hell is that? why would you feel the need to make that statement buddy? Like what did i ever do to you? you dont like the joshua fine thats good for you i personally heard people making claims of doing 15-20 foot drops routenely on them but if you dont want to accept that/ dont think so/ whatever this thread has nothing to do with my bike, and to be so beligerant and abnoxious as to say what you just have is disgusting, i dont care what you think of my bike ill do what i want on it until it breaks, which isnt likely since im not stupid with my bike, what i do care about however is your opinion on the best 6.5 inch shock out there, whether i plan to put it on a joshua or not has nothing to do with it for all you know i want to put it on a pogo stick so its super strong, i mean please im probably 20 or 30 years younger than you and i would NEVER say something like that, i hope you learn


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

and this frame will take a 10 foot drop just not repeated ones, its the original componentry on the bike that couldnt take the abuse, a once in a while drop will be fine so long as i make it smooth


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Yes, CLAIMS of 15 foot drops. In pinkbike calculations, that comes out to roughly 28 inches. Do you know how big 15 feet is? Most roofs on a single-story house are 12 feet or so.

I'm 17. That's partially a joke. Defensive behavior, another characteristic attributed to buyer's remorse. Just because I don't use LOLZ and talk like a flaming retard of a homosexual (no offense to any of you homosexuals out there, it's a figure of speech) doesn't mean I'm old and decrepit.

If you want to learn, sell the Joshua frame, buy a decent entry-level hardtail. It'll be more confidence inspiring, and less likely to eat your face. If you claim the parts are decent (judging by your current choice in parts, it would seem that they are not) then you can swap parts from the Joshua to the new hardtail.

Nobody said the frame would sodomize you up the @ss if you sat on it, you did. Which obviously means that you're at least partially aware that this is not the correct bike for the application.


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## jp3d (Oct 9, 2004)

*LOLZ*
this thread is amazing...

but seriously dude, go out and ride your bike. Dont worry about getting any fancy new parts untill you have had fun with what you have and worked out your basic skills. Maybe in a couple months when stuff starts breaking on that bike just go out and get a nice hardtail like this Rockhopper Pro Disc All Mountain.








(something in the $1000 range)

For now pick up a copy of:
Mastering Mountain Bike Skills by Lopes and McCormack
and Fundamentals Mountain Bike Technique DVD

Oh, and practice dropping off a curb and landing with both wheels level, and then try something a little higher like 1 or 2 feet max. That wont hurt as much if your trusty ole steed decides to give out on ya...

edit:


potvinwannab said:


> holy THAT for 600? jeesh i payed that for a modified gary fisher joshua with a s*** rear shock i wish I knew you were selling this before i went n bought the fisher  :'(


 Oh man you got hosed...


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

Look man, you asked about a shock that we think could handle some small and maybe bigger drops in the future, and people pointed out to you that you don't need a shock that can handle drops if your frame can't handle drops. This wouldn't have turned into a flame fest if you wouldn't have gotten so defencive about your bike, people were trying to help you.
You said something about wanting a shock that will last for a long time and that you don't want to buy something mid. level or lower because in the long run ect.... and also you commented saying something along the lines of, "what you don't think parts are trasfurable." The whole reason you created this thread was because you were having a hard time finding a good shock with you're propper eye to eye. Now do you really think a ton of bikes out there have your eye to eye if none of the major shock manufactuers make the same eye to eye as your bike? I doubt it... meaning that if and when your frame fails from dropping, you'll be stuck with an expencive shock that won't fit on any other bike.
You also said you were a big guy so you needed a good shock, but again, people have warned you that dropping this bike isn't a good idea, and I thought I'd point out that it's def. not a good idea if your weight is a concern.
The people who flame over the internet for no real reason are just douchebag kids who have nothing better to do than hide behind the comfert of their moniter and talk sh!t because they know nothing can be done about it. So don't get super defensive about dumb sh!t, let them flame, but to be honest most of these people were tring to help you and you got super touchy, so just ease up and ask reasonable questions and think about what somepeople have told you already.... 
Jeeze, it feels like I've just written a book.....


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Nobody flamed here but him.

You got just a bit touchy in your thread too. That's alright.

You'll find that for the most part I offer lots of help and advice. I like to bash on Specialized bikes after having worked at a Specialized dealer for over a year and having to fix all the problems. I like to bash on todd_freeride for his blind support of said company (thanks for being there buddy) and nothing else.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

Hardtails are an nuh uh for me my friend has a specialized hardrock and we bboth agree its a piece of sh!t compared to myn (his fork locked up after blowing up, his rear tire popped overall problem and he doesnt do anything more then a 2 foot drop if that) look my fisher is better then you think, though its no vps

And i talk like a flaming retard eh? because i put a z at the end of my lol? wow doesnt take much for you to blow your mouth off eh? To me you seem a little homosexual yourself but i dont find that relivent in anyway therefor i do not state it frankly thats not all i have to say but thats all im going to say because im not a egotistical steriotypical fool. I know that homosexuality and my grammar have absolutely nothing to do with this thread, However you seem bent on having the last word, wether it be good or bad, and stating that you hope my headtube shreds off is increadibly disrespectful. I talk to joshua owners they are all confident in their bikes and 2 of them have taken them off 20 foot drops to tranny, this bike wasnt meant for that but they indeed did it.



> but seriously dude, go out and ride your bike. Dont worry about getting any fancy new parts untill you have had fun with what you have and worked out your basic skills. Maybe in a couple months when stuff starts breaking on that bike just go out and get a nice hardtail like this Rockhopper Pro


id rather jump off a 20 foot drop in just my shoes then do it with a hardtail! when i started with biking i bought a dual suspension supercycle, i was warned just to buy a entry level hardtail, but to this day i found that supercycle more comfortable, and easy riding than any hardtail ive ever tried, im ds all the way and will give this frame a run for its money to the best of my abilities! and if it shall ever brake which i doubt ill go and buy another ds probably an fsr or more likely if i can earn the money an iron horse yakuza or norco vps

AND WHERE THE HELL HAS THE CONVO ABOUT REAR SHOCKS GONE!!!???OWEL MY MINDS MADE UP ON THE VANILLA RC THANK YOU ALL SO NOW WE R FREE TO TALK ABOUT MY SUPPOSED ALUMINUM TERD

jp3d i like your attitude ! but no hardtail for me


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

potvinwannab said:


> Hardtails are an nuh uh for me my friend has a specialized hardrock and we bboth agree its a piece of sh!t compared to myn (his fork locked up after blowing up, his rear tire popped overall problem and he doesnt do anything more then a 2 foot drop if that) look my fisher is better then you think, though its no vps
> 
> And i talk like a flaming retard eh? because i put a z at the end of my lol? wow doesnt take much for you to blow your mouth off eh? To me you seem a little homosexual yourself but i dont find that relivent in anyway therefor i do not state it frankly thats not all i have to say but thats all im going to say because im not a egotistical steriotypical fool. I know that homosexuality and my grammar have absolutely nothing to do with this thread, However you seem bent on having the last word, wether it be good or bad, and stating that you hope my headtube shreds off is increadibly disrespectful. I talk to joshua owners they are all confident in their bikes and 2 of them have taken them off 20 foot drops to tranny, this bike wasnt meant for that but they indeed did it.
> 
> ...


You yourself said that components can be replaced. Despite my dislike for Specialized, I still say it's a better bike. Popping tubes? Learn to pump up your tires, most flats are from pinch flats.

Pictures to prove it. 20 feet is a lot. Try jumping 20 feet in your shoes. You'll likely break your legs. A guy snapped his Enduro SX on a 20 footer in Florida. The chainstay broke clean through. That drop has to have paramedics on standby for it to be opened.

I went from a full squish to a hardtail. I still do all the same things. Hit the same drops. Ride the same DH. the rock gardens do throw me around a bit more, and I do notice the fatigue after a long day, but it's a satisfying feeling.

And you're throwing around the immaturity issue, when the best comeback you can come up with is effectively "yeah? well... you're gay-er"

Now that being said... I hope that your RC loses it's nitrogen charge and you get a faceful of oil after your headtube snaps. Haha.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

Oh boy time to respond...

Xsl_Will...
Dont tell me to pump a tube im not shishore (my friend) he told me to fix it and i have a spare dh tube and tire but i haent gotten around to it and hes to scared to do it himself. As for 20 feet im just as dead jumping barefoot as i in particular am on a hardtail, i lost control and barely averted disaster going over a small speed bump in a parking lot i would like fall off the hardtail or land some stupid way in which the bike would make no difference on the way down. Ds rigs no matter what level or price or quality instill confidence in me that no hardtail can do. and look who said anything about "comebacks" this isnt no "dissing"(gosh i hate that word) competition plus i have descentsy 


To fred.r
because this thread has nothing to do with my frame now does it? care to read the title? you are entitled to your opinion but its my choice to listen to it or not and the odds are against you and either way you shouldnt care because its not your ass on the joshua and chances are you'lle never meet me in your life. Touchy? No but i dont take kindly to being told to go die, and im sure your the same. Ive stated multiple times that i like the frame and you are not going to change that, 6.5 is the eye to eye and the same way parts are transferabble they are also returnable if it doesnt fit which it will wether it needs spacers different bushings whatever etc....and i am not picking any fights here and you know it before you guys all started getting physical about how much u dislike the joshua idea i had no reason to do any arguing, and i didnt i sat there and listened patiently to your 6.5 inch eye to eye ideas.

and another to xsl_will....
at no point in this thread have i been super touchy or touchy really i accepted the fact that you guys all didnt like the joshua and lets just move on but you kept raving, i got touchy when you told me you hope that my headtube sheers off, and that was 1 or 2 posts of touchiness brought on by you, 
and you like to bash specialized eh? one of the best most trusted most widely supported companies around? Then your standards must be set really high and looks like its ok that i take just about everything you say as a grain of rice and preffer listening to the guy at my lbs


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Oh godd, I thought this thread was over. 

Will, I love you. Thanks for keeping it alive.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2006)

Ok, I will keep this simple. 

XSL_Will just stop it, your're being immature, you can think all the nasty worst things in the word but telling them to someone is just asking for some bad karma. Keep the homosexual reference out of it, its not needed and you could have been the bigger man in this convo if you hadn't said that.

potvin. You really need to work on your grammer and spelling, reading your posts is like pulling teeth from a cow. Its horrible. English might not be your first language and thats fine but please try a little harder. A friendly tip using LOLZ is for 13 year old girls and people addicted to AIM, its not to be used on mountain biking fourms. 

Finally, we are trying to help you here, when people buy crappy things, we tell them. Unfortantely in your case you bought a product that is outdated for what you want to put it though. We told you that, please stop getting upset when you come and ask for the advice of others and we tell you the truth. 

Finally what is a supercycle? I don't know what it is and I highly doubt other people know what it is.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

...this thread is dead to me  R.I.P-any hope


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

potvinwannab said:


> Oh boy time to respond...
> 
> To fred.r
> because this thread has nothing to do with my frame now does it? care to read the title? you are entitled to your opinion but its my choice to listen to it or not and the odds are against you and either way you shouldnt care because its not your ass on the joshua and chances are you'lle never meet me in your life. Touchy? No but i dont take kindly to being told to go die, and im sure your the same. Ive stated multiple times that i like the frame and you are not going to change that, 6.5 is the eye to eye and the same way parts are transferabble they are also returnable if it doesnt fit which it will wether it needs spacers different bushings whatever etc....and i am not picking any fights here and you know it before you guys all started getting physical about how much u dislike the joshua idea i had no reason to do any arguing, and i didnt i sat there and listened patiently to your 6.5 inch eye to eye ideas.


Wow. How can you say this thread has nothing to do with your frame? It doens't matter how "strong" your shock is if your frame can't handle the riding you intend on doing, like I said, you will be stuck with a broken frame and a "strong" shock that isn't compadible with most other DH/FR frames. Being a big guy, if I threw a Roco shock on a Specialized Stumpjumper FSR frame, the shock will hold up fine, but the frame will fail riding the way I ride, do you understand that? It makes no dif. how strong a shock is if the frame isn't made for the kind of riding you plan on using it for.
6.5 i2i isn't common, so buying a shock to outlast a frame that has 6.5 i2i won't FIT on anything else when you do decide to get a dif. frame. And no you can't return a used shock after you've taken if off a frame and it won't fit. You stated to me earler that you wanted a nice shock so you don't have to upgrade in the future.
If the odds are against you listening to what people had to say, then why did you make the thread?
No one is telling you not to like your frame, they are just telling you that it may not hold up to semi agressive riding, rendering your shock choice useless.
Get a clue kid, and listen to what people are tring to tell you instead of hiding your head up your ass.
There is a TON of good advise in this thread, most of which you has disregarded.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

potvinwannab said:


> ...this thread is dead to me  R.I.P-any hope


Thank god. If you don't have enough skill to ride a hardtail over a speedbump, you don't need to be doing anything freeride oriented.

Say this to yourself, over and over again : Its the rider, not the bike.

Popped tire? Your fault 99.9% of the time. Either underinflation or casing the wheel on an edge/rock usually.

Falling off the bike? Your fault 100% of the time if you're riding alone. If you hit an obstacle, its more that you didn't avoid it, if the bike goes nose down over a drop its becaue you didn't do what you needed to do to pick it up.

Freeriding is about challenging yourself, coming in here with a bunch of excuses and rationalizations for what a lot of expert riders say are ideas that stink worse than a sack of buttholes is pretty stupid. People are doing insane things on all kinds of bikes, hardtails and fullys alike, all you've got are a bunch of reasons you can't do things.

Fine, but none of us are going to try to win you over, we don't need whiny *****es in the sport. Put up or shut up, if you wanna ride, you will and only riding will make you better.

A decent hardtail will take less maintenance than an XC fully that's used as a DH bike, will last longer, and will probably ride better. I podiumed last year in a DH race on an HT with a 4" against people on DH rigs. I still like my fully better, but you can ride the **** out of a hardtail. if you choose to. Its definitely more work, but doable. One of my buddies rides a santa cruz HT with a 6" fork all over, at the resorts, etc. Keeps up with us big bikes pretty well too except on really rocky stuff.


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

Archdukeferdinand said:


> Thank god. If you don't have enough skill to ride a hardtail over a speedbump, you don't need to be doing anything freeride oriented.
> 
> Say this to yourself, over and over again : Its the rider, not the bike.
> 
> ...


:applause:


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

terribly sorry for the absence your centerpiece is late so il try to catch up find whichever one of these replies applies to you and read it, or read the whole thing 

fred.r...
why do you make me repeat myself...i CAN say this thread has nothing to do with my frame because it doesnt, for all you know its a custom frame, when did i ask you about wether it will fit or not, what type of riding my bike is made for, what will fit etc.?it was a general question that has been so sidetracked it is now long gone and there is no useful information you people are sharing with me so seems your only talking for the sake of arguing, which im fine with i enjoy a good argument once in a while.

...and how can you say the odds are against me? check mtbr, talk to some joshua owners with experience i have 4 people who have never owned the joshua and one 17 year old claiming he sold them against i dont know how many joshua fans so dont even bother telling me anything about my frame because im not listening to either because i know that the reveiwers are most likely begginers, but there is alot of them, but i also know that the 4people here are proffesionals and have experience so between the two its knowledge vs. numbers. So leave the question about what the frame can handle up to me to answer because i never asked it and the bike will show me when its had enough

Whoaohohohoh...

uhhh wow you must have owned ridden and broken a joshua to know its a crappy product, i said an occasionald drop not full on freeride and if you read any of my previous posts you'd know im scared of heights, and couldnt do freeride extreme/ anything extreme, but i could work up the balls to do the occasional 5 footer, so it is not outdated for what i want to put it through, outdated yes, but still manages 4" of rear travel which is plenty for me. Jeesh joshua is no freeride monster but its not a crappy bike its a serious bike you talk like its from x-mart, and dont go thinking you are helping me because what i needed help on was a rear shock not my frame and you dont seem to realize this. Its like helping a senior citizen across the street who didnt want/ nor need your help, or giving a man a dollar because he merely looks like a hobo

supercycle is the x-mart bike up here in canada sold at my local canadian tire here is the model ive been bashing, tormenting, jumping, etc. for the past year take one look at it and tell me my fisher sucks

http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortme...<>ast_id=1408474396670271&bmUID=1152596314655

as for my grammar terribly sorry but as you can probably see i try really hard to use full english and the such as for communicating with people unless its on msn i use full words, but my keyboard keys are kind of sticky so sometimes words will be missing a letter or two. as for the lolz sorry boys but thats just me its the one thing i do let it go

as for you Archdukeferdinand...

i am a great rider, im fast, im nimble, im careful, im fearless on the trails, but i am no freerider and dont plan to its too risky and scary for me, i could do downhill but not freeride, i merely posted this thread here because when it comes to shock absorbtion no one knows better then you freeriders eh?



> Freeriding is about challenging yourself, coming in here with a bunch of excuses and rationalizations for what a lot of expert riders say are ideas that stink worse than a sack of buttholes is pretty stupid. People are doing insane things on all kinds of bikes, hardtails and fullys alike, all you've got are a bunch of reasons you can't do things.


 well excuse me but i am defly scared of heights and dont want to kill myself and those are my reasons and they are damn good, i am very flexible but i dont go into gymnastics because i am terrified i will break my neck, i am a good rider i dont get into freeride because i am scared, and my idea of challenging is hitting 60 kmh on the road with my big honkin mountain bike and laughin at the roadies, but i would want a good rear shock so #1 i have more tuning options and #2 i could do occasional drops of 5 feet or less.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Whoaohohohoh said:


> Ok, I will keep this simple.
> 
> XSL_Will just stop it, your're being immature, you can think all the nasty worst things in the word but telling them to someone is just asking for some bad karma. Keep the homosexual reference out of it, its not needed and you could have been the bigger man in this convo if you hadn't said that.
> 
> ...


English isn't my first language, that's not an excuse for poor grammar.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

hey and my posts are fully readable


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

potvinwannab said:


> terribly sorry for the absence your centerpiece is late so il try to catch up find whichever one of these replies applies to you and read it, or read the whole thing
> 
> fred.r...
> why do you make me repeat myself...i CAN say this thread has nothing to do with my frame because it doesnt, for all you know its a custom frame, when did i ask you about wether it will fit or not, what type of riding my bike is made for, what will fit etc.?it was a general question that has been so sidetracked it is now long gone and there is no useful information you people are sharing with me so seems your only talking for the sake of arguing, which im fine with i enjoy a good argument once in a while.
> ...


Would you like some credentials? I worked at two shops, Spokes and Bikeline. I quit Spokes because of the sh!tty way that things were handled with Specialized and the bad attitude I was getting from the rep. While working at Spokes, I was making extra cash tuning suspension and doing custom car fab. Somehow I ended up with a few forks shipped to my door. So I started doing that. There's atleast 2 guys on here that I've done custom forks for. And I've custom valved every fork and shock that I've owned.

I don't claim to work at a shop. I do. Spokes was a Trek/Fisher/Klein/Bontrager dealer for something like 19 years. We ended up dropping them for the same reason I think we should've dropped Specialized. Too many issues. Trek will have it's eventual comeback, and I think Spokes will pick them back up in a few years.

Downhill is scarier than freeride. Why don't you hang with the big boys some time?


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Archdukeferdinand said:



> Thank god. If you don't have enough skill to ride a hardtail over a speedbump, you don't need to be doing anything freeride oriented.
> 
> Say this to yourself, over and over again : Its the rider, not the bike.
> 
> ...


Well said! Bravo!


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

your telling me this because?...

p.s-when i said claim i didnt mean i thought you were b.s-ing i believe you, but a claim is a claim wether it be true or not right? sorry if you didnt think it was appropriate wording


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Specialized is far from the best. So don't go and buy a 1997 FSR, it won't do you any good. The aluminum is probably at the end of it's fatigue life too. Oh, go read the o6 bike catalog, it's full of spelling errors.

We aren't going to shove a stick in some dog poo and give it to you, telling you it's a chocolate popsicle. The folks here are going to give it to you fairly straight forward. Don't think that the LBS is all knowledgable. One of our employees can't even change his own tires. He offers dirt jumping advice to me, when he won't even hit the smallest double. He went to a different shop (Performance) and bought a bike there. At the old shop, my boss knew next to nothing, but liked to think he was all knowledgeable. When he and the Specialized rep got together, you'd hear them bashing every single bike that came through the door that isn't a Specialized. The rep has called every single one of my bikes complete and utter crap trying to get me to buy a Specialized. He tried telling me that the Hardrock was a better bike than my Surly Instigator and my Kona Coiler combined. He told me that the Hemi was a way better street bmx bike than my Rochester made Kink.

Zach? Sorry, I'm not into big folks (or men). Look elsewhere for love.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

specialized is far from the best eh....and my lbs is bulls****in me eh n my fisher will onli handle the lightest of the light eh ur making more sense the more i talk to you


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

your telling me this because?...

p.s-when i said claim i didnt mean i thought you were b.s-ing i believe you, but a claim is a claim wether it be true or not right? sorry if you didnt think it was appropriate wording


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

What happened to leaving this thread?


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2006)

How can someone sit through that like will and reply without freaking out.... man..
that guy is nuts


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

? I'm sorry, I'm not sure I follow.


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## jp3d (Oct 9, 2004)

XSL_WiLL said:


> ? I'm sorry, I'm not sure I follow.


I think he is saying you should stop molesting the newbies.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2006)

XSL_WiLL said:


> ? I'm sorry, I'm not sure I follow.


I mean how could you sit there and read everythng he was saying and actually reply to it without telling him to kill himself...
I didnt even read most of it, and I was pissed


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

you got pissed eh? well then my work here is done...joking
seriously
because i dont make fun of people like i mean come on what smart allick would do stuff like call people homosexual because of the way they talk? i mean thats just childish something i dont do. and boy if you get pissed listening to me talk about a frame then your pretty damn hairtriggered i tell you what...


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

I've worked at a bike shop for over 2 years, I hear plenty of stupid things. I'm Chinese, I have to deal with all the other stupid ch!nks. They make a bad name for all of us. That's how I'm patient.

Oh shut the hell up. Like you've never said, "that's gay." Get over yourself. I didn't make fun of you, I don't like you enough to do that.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz ill agree with you partially on your first point i was at an italian festival when we won the world cup and i see two chinese men wearing the bagiest most gangster-wannab clothing ever, but still chinese people dont have a bad rep at all, i dont know where your going, but your area might be different then myn.

lolz you didnt make fun of me eh? so i suppose saying i talk like a fa-g-got is like saying hello for you eh? wether you were making fun of me or not (ofcourse that is in your mind) homosexuality has nothing to do with rear shocks or bikes in general, i dont care if your patient, i dont care if you work in a workshop, and i dont care what you think of my frame  i care what you think about the strongest 6.5 inch rear shock is, or atleast cared...and there are indeed bikes out there that suit my needs with 6.5 eye to eyes, the iron horse sinister, and and certain model of the fsr to name two


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

I insulted you. I didn't make fun of you. Big difference. It happens in life. Get used to it.

The Sinister is not a DH bike, it's an entry-level full suspension. Very few DH/FR bikes use 6.5" i2i shocks because you would have to use a very high leverage ratio to acheive long travel rear ends. This is hell on the shocks.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

oooh insulted, making fun of big difference mr sensative...and im touchy?

well thank you for telling me because i was thinking of getting it after a seller on ebay told me it could take 8-10 footers, and im not familiar with iron horse, but it sounded unlikely since it came with a lu jin rear suspension, a very low end x-mart shock


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

potvinwannab said:


> oooh insulted, making fun of big difference mr sensative...and im touchy?
> 
> well thank you for telling me because i was thinking of getting it after a seller on ebay told me it could take 8-10 footers, and im not familiar with iron horse, but it sounded unlikely since it came with a lu jin rear suspension, a very low end x-mart shock


Use the "quote" button, no one has any idea what you are talking about or to whom you are replying to.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lmao sorry ok xsl_will stated that he was "insulting" me not "making fun of" me


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

potvinwannab said:


> lmao sorry ok xsl_will stated that he was "insulting" me not "making fun of" me


You still didn't use it....


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

oh boohoo go tell your mommy


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

potvinwannab said:


> oh boohoo go tell your mommy


You're a moron.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

well more then one touchy person on this forum sorry i couldnt hand your request to you on a silver platter your majesty but i think you could gather from the previous post what i was talking about and if you couldnt make the connection and need a quote then dont go calling me a moron


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## Don Juan (May 28, 2006)

You know what, Potvin? Do get a shock for your Joshua. Get the "strongest" (whatever that means) shock you can get. Whatever you mean by "stronger", you know it's going to cost a lot. The stronger, the more $, probably. Avalanche make a great shock, and Cane Creek's Ohlins Double Barrel is awesome. Spend at least $850 on a rear unit. Nevermind if it's a little long, adjust it down in sag (make it about normal when your body weight is sitting on it). Put it in there, and do 8-10 footers. Hell, do 5 footers. Do 2 footers even. Just make sure you have someone taking pictures, who will then post them here.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz i like your attitude don juan finally someone who gets me!


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## jp3d (Oct 9, 2004)

potvinwannab said:


> lolz i like your attitude don juan finally someone who gets me!


"_lolz_" someone needs a lesson in sarcasm...

Oh my, this thread is getting silly.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz someone needs a lessonn in lightening up

relax man dun be so literall what do you think i am...if you couldnt see the sarcasm in my post then you could use to learn a few things to


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

HA FOUND ANOTHER 6.5 INCH FREERIDE FRAME the preston fr, manitoue swinger 6.5 inch eye to eye (didnt know they made that size will consider)


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2006)

omg lolz, this thread needs to end. stop posting, no one fives a f**k anymore.


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## jp3d (Oct 9, 2004)

potvinwannab said:


> lolz someone needs a lessonn in lightening up
> 
> relax man dun be so literall what do you think i am...if you couldnt see the sarcasm in my post then you could use to learn a few things to


shat, now hes gonna drawn me in to his little e-battle too... anyone know how to unsubscribe from a thread?


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz hey man you think your just gonna do a drive by insult n get away on MY watch?

and yes this thread needs to stop but no one unsubscribe because in a week i want you all to see the pictures


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

He made fun of you. I was insulting you.

How is clarifying the difference being sensitive. I've talked to kid's with dyslexia AND ADHD who could think more logically than you. Probably better spelling and grammar too.

You're not a ch!nk, you aren't allowed to trash talk them. It's like how only black people can call each other n!ggers.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

excuse me? uh yah im sure every joe on the street will give less a rats ass if you insult them as apposed to making fun of them because as everyone on this earth knows there is a huge difference!

and ill trash talk whoever i want if they look and act like total goofs i never called them a racial name or anything, and why in the world would you even mention the n word in here


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Dude, for flying fvcks sake, END YOURSELF.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

It's funny when you try to sound intelligent. You make even less sense than before.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2006)

Whoaohohohoh said:


> omg lolz, this thread needs to end. stop posting, no one fives a f**k anymore.


you missed the "g" key...


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

> It's funny when you try to sound intelligent. You make even less sense than before.


lolz you make so little sense xsl_will i just dont know why you still bother/

and i hope you realize that our the only one who give a ratsass about this thread is you


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

potvinwannab said:


> lolz you make so little sense xsl_will i just dont know why you still bother/
> 
> and i hope you realize that our the only one who give a ratsass about this thread is you


So, since you said you wouldn't be back like 10 posts ago, you came back why?

doucheface


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

yoyoyo i like boy u like men woot yeee yeee wooot og yeee wooot yo u cant smell this yoo wooott yeee.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

I think it's funny.


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Seriously. End. Yourself.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

> yoyoyo i like boy u like men woot yeee yeee wooot og yeee wooot yo u cant smell this yoo wooott yeee.


guys i didnt write that and or anything similar to that my idiot friend did it while i was out


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

i lied

and again wth the name calling sure sign of frustration, take two blood pressure pills and calm down man jeesh i dont think ive made fun of any of you the whole time


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

potvinwannab said:


> i lied
> 
> and again wth the name calling sure sign of frustration, take two blood pressure pills and calm down man jeesh i dont think ive made fun of any of you the whole time


That's IT!!! I knew this sh!t was too stupid to be real. Reveal yourself, what is your real identity?!? We should have known that no actual person was a big enough dumbfu(k to try to put a DHX or a Swinger on a gary fisher joshua so they could drop it 5 feet, I think for now we'll call you Ming the fu(kin' Merciless because you managed to drag out this joke for so long.

I hope it feels good knowing that you can play a sh!tstain well enough to convince a site full of people that you're more 'tarded than corky, and thanks for wasting our e-time. You got us all, now why don't you come clean and tell us its BS.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

potvinwannab said:


> lolz you make so little sense xsl_will i just dont know why you still bother/
> 
> and i hope you realize that our the only one who give a ratsass about this thread is you


Atleast when I speak people are able to comprehend what I say. So actually, I make perfect sense. You on the other hand, do not. Again, a poor attempt at a comeback.


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## jp3d (Oct 9, 2004)

potvinwannab said:


> guys i didnt write that and or anything similar to that my idiot friend did it while i was out


I knew something was off - it was the first post of yours that made any sense


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

You guys know this kid will keep shooting back stupid sh!t everytime you reply, he's a moron, we all know this. 
Quit posting in this thread, maybe the kid will shut-up. Unless of course your into wasting time.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Naw, I think this sh!t is hilarious.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

LMAO IM WITH YOU XSL_WILL

its not that i keep shooting back its that you are all replying and loosing at that too 

by the way im for real just very scared i mean 5 feet is nothing to you but i measured the drop at the freeride park that i cant do because im too scared...it wasnt 3 feet, it was 2 feet! so i want all the protection i can get in the back

and im no flamer! i love biking and this thread started as a valid exchange of thoughs till some goof i forgot who had to keep beting on the fisher even after i accepted it was a mediocre bike


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

If you can't ride for ****, the bike won't help.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

what is your thinking behind that my friend?

i went from crappy bike>bmx bike>gary fisher bike 

its going to be better no matter what because anything is better then my old bike, the components were no name like mercalli and joytech


besides if you say the bike wont take 5 footers which im sure it will, ill just use my bmx for anything big, just need more balls...like WAYYYY more balls

and may i just say thank you someone is actually talking about bikes


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

potvinwannab said:


> LMAO IM WITH YOU XSL_WILL
> 
> its not that i keep shooting back its that you are all replying and loosing at that too
> 
> ...


Naw, you haven't said anything that would make anybody "lose" yet. All you've done is sound very stupid, very defensive, and very stupid.

If you can't ride for sh!t, no bike is ever going to make you better. If you fall over riding over a bump on hardtail, then you're just plain stupid.

Specialized uses Joytech hubs.


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Uhhh.


I can jump big huckzorz on my friend's azonic steelhead. And my p1cromo.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz i think it was just freak occurance that i fell over on the bump because it was steep and not well shaped for jumping plus i jumped it at the rong time, plus i was going towards it fast with no confidence knowing that i would fall. i jump the steps at the freeride park with my bmx and can do sloped drops, i also enjoy doing stairs and wheelies just drops scare me if they are any height at all

lolz you havent offered one bit of helpful advice to me trust me you lost 

and im sure specialized higher end models dont use joytech...i hope

and im defencive because im being faced with so much ofence like people callin me a deucheface and tellin me im a sh!t rider etc. you guys seem almost angry


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

those are alright bikes, i know its the rider not the bike, but its not the rider that takes the blunt force a better bike is just more confidence inspiring, and you people make me put more confidence in my bmx then my fisher


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## Ultra Magnus (Jan 13, 2004)

potvinwannab said:


> ...you people make me put more confidence in my bmx then my fisher


ding ding ding!!!! We have a winner! For what you want to do, you *should* have more confidence in you BMX than your fisher, as long as it's just a little bit better than a huffy.

If you want to go on a 20mile XC ride, fix up the fisher with period correct retro goodies and have fun. that's what it's made for. Ask some questions on the retro vintage forum.

BM

PS. Thanks to everyone for a very entertaining thread.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz yah that sounds like what im going to mdo, leave the big drops up to the bmx, and im going to earn a bit more money and probably buy a khs dirtjumper


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

potvinwannab said:


> lolz i think it was just freak occurance that i fell over on the bump because it was steep and not well shaped for jumping plus i jumped it at the rong time, plus i was going towards it fast with no confidence knowing that i would fall. i jump the steps at the freeride park with my bmx and can do sloped drops, i also enjoy doing stairs and wheelies just drops scare me if they are any height at all
> 
> lolz you havent offered one bit of helpful advice to me trust me you lost
> 
> ...


Actually I did offer advice at first, I asked for additional information. What exactly what you're looking for. And just because somebody didn't help you doesn't mean that they lost an argument.

They're Hardrocks use/used Joytech hubs. Not sure about the Rockhoppers.

I didn't say you ride for ****. I said if you can't ride for ****, no amount of travel can compensate for the lack of skill.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Don't buy a KHS... Don't waste your money again...


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## jp3d (Oct 9, 2004)

XSL_WiLL said:


> They're Hardrocks use/used Joytech hubs. Not sure about the Rockhoppers.


wow XSL WiLL actually has the component spec of low end Specialized bikes memorized, guess he must really love to hate them 

Hardrock:
FRONT HUB: Joy-Tech, disc, 36h, ground race double sealed loose ball w/ alloy QR
REAR HUB: Joy-Tech, disc cassette, 36h, ground race double sealed loose ball w/ alloy QR

Rockhopper:
FRONT HUB: Specialized disc, 36 hole, loose ball bearings, alloy Q/R
REAR HUB: Shimano M-475 disc, 36 hole, loose ball bearings, alloy Q/R


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

i got all the advice i needed just not from you bub and no one here is still going at it except you and me xsl so dont post and i wont reply that simple as for any one else if you wish to post useful advice i would be glad to hear it


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

really? i suppose a khs has a stick of dynamite in the seatpost right? and that they glue their brakes on? maybe, or that they are merely "called" dirtjumpers and realy the frame will snap on a dirtjump of moderate size? 
...im sure i could learn to ride a hardtail i guess i was a little exaggerated about how much i dont like them but now that you mention that i shouldnt get a khs dirtjumper maybe ill get the bike of my dreams...a norco vps or my runner up bike the iron horse yakuza (any of them will do)


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lmao good one :thumbsup: so what mental condition do you have?


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

LMAO xsl you can do 45 pounds on your right arm eh?...i hope your like 5' 4" if thats all you can do and your 17


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

I'm 5'8". And a combined 95 pound max bicep curl is not bad at all considering how much I weigh. I'm outlifting people much larger than I.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

jp3d said:


> wow XSL WiLL actually has the component spec of low end Specialized bikes memorized, guess he must really love to hate them
> 
> Hardrock:
> FRONT HUB: Joy-Tech, disc, 36h, ground race double sealed loose ball w/ alloy QR
> ...


I used to sell them, remember?


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

......oooookkk

ye i forgot ur 160

i coulda told you the hardrock sport had joytechs too, i took a gander at my friends


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

> That's IT!!! I knew this sh!t was too stupid to be real. Reveal yourself, what is your real identity?!? We should have known that no actual person was a big enough dumbfu(k to try to put a DHX or a Swinger on a gary fisher joshua so they could drop it 5 feet, I think for now we'll call you Ming the fu(kin' Merciless because you managed to drag out this joke for so long.
> 
> I hope it feels good knowing that you can play a sh!tstain well enough to convince a site full of people that you're more 'tarded than corky, and thanks for wasting our e-time. You got us all, now why don't you come clean and tell us its BS


Peter Veri super evil genius first i conquer bicycle forums around the world then i move on to kitchenware blogs then the world!

ok im a little bit of a worry wart better safe then sorry...ill use my bmx to do the drops if you think its safer and if i ever get the balls


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## Alandrex (Aug 11, 2005)

Wow this thread went on a long time. If the kid wants to buy a really expensive shock that will give him very little or no use, let him. If the kid wants to snap his frame in half cause he is so sure that its got "good welds", let him. If he wants to learn from his mistakes let him. Who cares if he burns a hole in his pocket and ends up with a screwed up bike. We tried, especially XSL Will. He cant say we didnt tell him. (by the way you should listen to XSL potvinwannab, he knows he stuff if you just listened.)


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Alandrex said:


> Wow this thread went on a long time. If the kid wants to buy a really expensive shock that will give him very little or no use, let him. If the kid wants to snap his frame in half cause he is so sure that its got "good welds", let him. If he wants to learn from his mistakes let him. Who cares if he burns a hole in his pocket and ends up with a screwed up bike. We tried, especially XSL Will. He cant say we didnt tell him. (by the way you should listen to XSL potvinwannab, he knows he stuff if you just listened.)


The forum vouches for me.

By the way... What bike did you decide on getting since Kona is out of Stinky Primos?


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

im pretty sure it has good welds but if anybody can tell me something specific to look for? Because the welds are beefy and they have that pattern like fish flakes (dont know how to describe it)

ye well you know what i wont listen to xsl_will im a rebel boy, i rode the cheapest bike in canada in conditions the bike shop man told me would snap it into a million pieces and when i threw it out (which i wish i didnt) there wasnt one crack in site, it had over 2000 miles on it, over the course of my biking career ive been accustomed to proving people wrong and ill be damned if im going to be listening to some 17 year old in a bikeshop

you guys all know eachother and i dont know any of you so i havent been around here long enough to find xsl_will helpful at all ,but should he be right im looking into getting a transition preston since i like my rigs squishay i was thinking about hardtail but eh i just am not the hardtail type, but remember SHOULD he be right

P.s-im a heavy rider and i ride my bikes heavy if my cheapie could handle it so will this


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

I don't know alandrex at all. I tried to help him out finding a Stinky Primo or a suitable replacement since Kona won't have any available until the o7s are released.

How can you call a weld good if you don't even know what makes up a good weld? You don't want any porosity. You want a uniform bead with deep penetration. You can't tell penetration just by looking at it. Those are just the basics. You've also got to look at material, treating processes, etc, etc. Not all metals are created equal. Not all 7000 series aluminums are created equal, some 4130 cromoly stock is superior to others.

Obviously not riding hard enough, if it didn't break. I can flex department store full suspension bikes up to a foot side to side. The Fisher is hardly a torsionally rigid frame either, very small pivot bearings. And based on what you've told us, you're unworthy of a Preston.

I offered advice at first. Keep that in mind. You're the one that turned this into a flame-fest.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

ahuh and how did i start this "flame fest" and how the hell do you flex a department store side to side by one foot? sounds cool i wanna try it, ill even try it on my joshua and go and see what your talking about


ye i know welds can get complicated espescially with aluminum and from the outside im saying they are good welds im sure the folks at gary fisher are experienced 

unworthy of a preston? rambling on about how much the fisher will fail under my feet yet im not worthy of a preston? is there an in between? which i wouldnt get because my next frame if needed wont be an "in between" frame its either a yakuza or preston, and how can you even say unworthy of a preston anyone who will shell out the doh is worthy of whatever bike he/she can afford its not like the bike cares whos riding it


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

hows the mountain cycle san andreas?


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

*slams face on keyboard* ;lkh;lkjsad

I give up...


I hope your headtube snaps and the springs in the fork hit you in the face.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz now calm down grandpa simpson you dont HAVE to reply your not obligated to even care what i do with my bike...but if you want to reply please do VERY entertaining 

p.s-although thank you that you DO care

p.p.s-Do you guys want video, or just footage of me taking my bike off a 5 footer? i would like to show a video if thats alright with you whoever wants to see to believe


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

If you eat it or the HT snaps, get it on tape. I wanna see it.



Here's the problem. You come asking for advice. But, we try to help you for what you want. And then you argue. Don't ask if you don't want the answer, *****


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## jp3d (Oct 9, 2004)

potvinwannab said:


> lolz now calm down grandpa simpson you dont HAVE to reply your not obligated to even care what i do with my bike...but if you want to reply please do VERY entertaining
> 
> p.s-although thank you that you DO care
> 
> p.p.s-Do you guys want video, or just footage of me taking my bike off a 5 footer? i would like to show a video if thats alright with you whoever wants to see to believe


It better be in 3-D IMAX or im not gonna believe it...


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz itll be in whatever my digicam has


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## bleu (Jan 24, 2005)

Chuky/JMH, if you ever read this, I want the five minutes of my life that I just spent reading through this steaming pile of horse **** back.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz show me one part where i argued about a rear shock that you guys said was good?


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

STOP USING LOLZ. Not even JBSOXB uses LOLZIES anymore and he like SHINY PAINT WITH SPARKLES!



Uhh, we said a Joshua pretty much sucked for what you wanna do and you argued that it was. OHH ITS BEEFY BLAH BLAH BLAH. Guess what d!ckhead, I snapped a Hardrock frame doing simple street ****.


Ohhhh but the frame's beefy durr durr durr. You sound like a dumb****. I'll say it again, END YOURSELF


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

> STOP USING LOLZ. Not even JBSOXB uses LOLZIES anymore and he like SHINY PAINT WITH SPARKLES!


...oookkk what the hell was that?

look buddy ill say lolz as much as i want ok you swear profusedly and i never tell you to stop, if it werent for the stars who knows what you are saying

and look buddy you are way out of line what is with your anger your having a tantrum over what? a thread you can easily leave

i said show me a post where i argued about a shock absorption rear unit not about a frame because well look at the thead title

and how high was this streetjump anyways that you snapped a hardrock because you mustve landed weird because it has great reviews and lots of happy customers my friends is taking all its being dished out, and it outlasted the cheap gila fork and there is not one fault in the frame whatsoever

and you got some problems man relax


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

no. I have problems with stupid people. i need to attend some aa meetings.


I was hopping my my back wheel and sheered the chainstays off.

Yeah, not the welds *****, the TUBING. Clean breaks on TUBING is BAD.



Believe it or not, I'm a decent rider. It was a Pro Disc too and had a DJ3.


You want a DH FR shock for a piece-of-****-frame. We try to steer you in the right direction and all we get is wahhh wahh wahh my ***** hurts wahhhhh. That, and since Will left, I have to take his place.


I just wanted to say thanks for making this possible. Without your insatiable need for the last word, I would have been in bed 2 hours ago. Thanks mate.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz 
whatever helps you sleep at night 

dance monkey dance

p.s-your hardrock breaking was complete freak occurance most likely and no one here is wahh wahhing


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

yah and you should stop saying mate


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

You're gay right? I'm looking for a date..


uhh, specialized's rep said this when asked for warranty on 6 month old frame.


Uhhh, scratches ass and licks finger, that is considered normal wear and tear so we can't do anything about it.


So take a thumb and shove it up your ass and call it miracle whip. or dip. ewww


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

ok....
are you high? because you make less sense then xsl_will


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

standard235 said:


> no. I have problems with stupid people. i need to attend some aa meetings.
> 
> I was hopping my my back wheel and sheered the chainstays off.
> 
> ...


Zach really is quite a smooth rider, and a very fast racer, he placed 1st in expert MTX (correct me if I'm wrong). The cracking is not a freak occurence. My friend rides a Hardrock Pro Disc. All he does is this TINY set of DJs at the old spot. The kid just straight jumps them, nothing special. We found stress cracks near the welds on the chainstay. Specialized did end up warrantying it, he sold the bike and is looking at Konas now.

I figure if you say LOLZ, Zach is entitled to say whatever he wants (including any homosexual advances).


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

well since your up is the iron horse g spot any good? there is a good price on a frame and im thinkin about it


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Dude. I've been awake for... uhh...


4 hours less that 24.. 20 hours. Yeah, and I've ridden all day from 8:30AM to 11PM.

I'm so damned tired it almost sucks.

But it's my first weeknight with no school the next day. And I passed Algebra 1 Honors with an A so I'm not realllllyyy stupid, I just act like it. WOO. Now, Will is Asian... so he's just brainy anyways.


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Zach really is quite a smooth rider, and a very fast racer, he placed 1st in expert MTX (correct me if I'm wrong). The cracking is not a freak occurence. My friend rides a Hardrock Pro Disc. All he does is this TINY set of DJs at the old spot. The kid just straight jumps them, nothing special. We found stress cracks near the welds on the chainstay. Specialized did end up warrantying it, he sold the bike and is looking at Konas now.
> 
> I figure if you say LOLZ, Zach is entitled to say whatever he wants (including any homosexual advances).


Uhh, it was novice, but I was over 3 tenths faster than anyone else.

That Gary Fisher PHD is MINE.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

i know how u feel man im up because i wanted to watch dukes of hazzard and is usually on at 2 am but they didnt show it today because they are showing country and western music award show rerun so yeah but im not pooped because i slept nice and long


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

uhhh face it that is quite freak,
people use those frames for dirtjumping including my friend and when hes done jumping he can ride it back home and right now its sitting in his garage with a flat and the frame is flawless, and there are other people who use the hardrock as a dj frame


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

I thought you were trashing on the Hardrock frame earlier in the thread. So which is it?

Actually, I make quite a bit of sense. And on top of that, my stories do not conflict or contradict each other.

The G-Spot is not a great frame, but it certainly is better than the Joshua.


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

I slept like 3 hours the other night so that doesn't help.


Buy the shock, try to be smooth on what you got, but if it breaks, it breaks. 

Save your money and buy a pimp bot bikezorz. 


Then ride the piss out of the GF til it breaks.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

when did i trash the hardrock frame? i just said the fork and hubs suck


and whats wrong with the g-spot?


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz yah thats my thinking exactly and contrary to xsl wils ideas there are some decent dh/fr frame that use 6.5 inch shocks just he probably thinks each and every one of them sux 
-the devinci guzzler
-the iron horse g-spot
-the preston
-some fsr models

probably more but yeah when this blows there will be other frames i can put it on i picked it up for 90 bucks anyways so when and if it snaps i wont loose any sleep but i did however pay 600 for the entire bike


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Uhhh, FSR bikes aren't DH FR bikes.

Well, not all of them. The Big Hit is FSR.


But still. The only one on that list is the Preston. Which I have to agree. I love that thing. The other? Bleh.



I'm gonna go make love to my bed by sleeping on it.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

well i cant get a pure dh/fr bike anyways because im mainly xc just need something for the occasional drop...and whats wrong with a devinci guzzler?


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

anyways im going to bed big day at the freeride park tommorow gotta practice a massive 5 footer with my bmx this time ill bring allen keys last time my handlebar got loose and i had no allenkeys so i figured it was nothing, my friends toldme to do a large set of stairs and i knew something would happen and half way down sure enough my handle bars bent down to my tires and i went tumbling down, bike landing on me so yah


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

potvinwannab said:


> well i cant get a pure dh/fr bike anyways because im mainly xc just need something for the occasional drop...and whats wrong with a devinci guzzler?


ECH broke something like 3 of them.

I never said that DH/FR bikes don't use 6.5 inch eye to eye shocks stupid. Though most of them do not because to achieve longer travel with a shorter stroke means very high leverage ratios. This results in overdampened shocks which are more prone to failure. Fox does not support the use of their shocks with leverage ratios over 3:1. Nobody does except for Avalanche. NO DH/FR FSR BIKE FROM SPECIALIZED USES A 6.5 INCH i2i SHOCK. Even very few of their xc bikes will use that dimension shock. The G-Spot is ancient.

You got ripped off if you paid 90 bucks for an RC. Just like you got ripped off paying 600 bucks for the Joshua, 690 now with the shock. For 690 bucks you can buy a used Big Hit Spec.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz seriously 90 for an rc is bein ripped of? well im probably either going to save my bones for a yakuza or get a romic


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

Ok after you people are all scaring me about my frame i decided to talk to the people with experience...the owners and they all say it can take 5 foot drops this is one owners testimony that i think is more confidence inspiring 

"Its all cool dude, rocky descent, urban riding with up to a 5 foot drop off,
pretty much everything in Colorado there is trees, roots, boulders, sand,
rivers etc..."

"You know it seems like every one has an opinion on bikes, what it really
comes down to is how you ride. I personally don't think it is a waste of
money at all. However the suspension that came with the bike isn't really
up
to par for what this bike can take. Personally I like takn' the big hits
and
all mountain riding. However, this bike seems to climb exceptionally"


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## mtb_biker (Jan 27, 2004)

The person that sold you the bike has a vested interest in telling you the bike is good and what you want to hear. Aluminum doesn't have the longest life and if you're planning on doing big drops on an older frame that wasn't ment to take drops to begin with means you have the potential to get hurt. That bike is not made for 5ft drops even though just about any good bike can take a 5ft drop with the right amount of skill although your bike still has to take the hits (its only a matter of time before it stops taking the hits no matter how smooth or what frame you ride)

Don't keep droping money in that bike. Ride it since you paid for it but don't go spending more money on it.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz its not the seller that told me its a reviewer i found on mtbr and randomly emailed


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

whats a good steel/chromoly dual sussy frame?


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## mtb_biker (Jan 27, 2004)

Its almost the same thing. Few people will tell you thier bike sucks until they get a new bike. Then all of a sudden you'll hear all the bad stuff about the bike. 

Unless you know the person and trust what they're telling you it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that that bike wasn't made for 5ft drops. Just have fun with it but be carefull if you're doing big drops on it.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

unno what im going to ask him for pictures 

and it is not the same thing, i doubt the guy would want to go out and get people killed by telling them its a good bike

and why would he lie about it taking a 5 foot drop? he may not say the bike sucks but he probably wont lie about a 5 footer either


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

ok the bike will be done within 3 days so anybody want to give me advice on how to do a 5 foot drop to concrete? never done it and i dont even know if ill be gutsy enough so i might get one of my friends to do it but ill try just forget the fact its a joshua for a little bit


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## Fox787 (Jun 2, 2005)

dude i found you the perfect bike it has a nice ong travel rear shock and a nice steep headangle for all those climbs. Not to mention it has custom welds that will never break


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz ye thats my bike right there  how much u sellin for?

buh seriously i want a yakuza or vps buh i dont know if they are good for xc, but i made another thread about that


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## Fox787 (Jun 2, 2005)

just get a 4x bike with like 4 inches of travel that are ment to take a beating- a ransition bottle rocket


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

4 inches....na uh unless i can put 6 in the front

is there any way i can use a yakuza comfortably and efficiently as an xc bike?


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## Ultra Magnus (Jan 13, 2004)

Go between a SC Blur 4X, Heckler, or Nomad- Or maybe a Spec. Enduro or Enduro SX.. Other offerings from Giant and Iron Horse would do the trick... Intense, but spendy... Hmm, what else... A cheap, steel, hardtail that could fit the bill would be maybe a surly instigator (it'll take a 150mm fork). I'd ride one of those. Actually, if you are going to pump in between sets, or ride on a pump track, FS and/or long travel fork will work against you.

BM


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## bleu (Jan 24, 2005)

It's evident you have too little experience riding to decide on a bike.

You're asking people on a forum to tell you what to want. That's a bad thing. I strongly doubt you're taking "LOLZ FIVE FOOTERS" (or anything, for that matter) on your Joshua. 

Quit posting and go ride. Come back when you've learned and know what the **** you're talking about.


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## Alandrex (Aug 11, 2005)

potvinwannab, we are not out to get you. I dont even know anybody on this forum. We are not talking over the phone trying to screw you. XSL Will probably lives in a different time zone than me.(thats why im so late in responding, im sleeping when he posting) I dont know who he is. I used to think my raliegh was pretty sweet and could take the hits but it doesnt. It looks strong and burly but its nothing compared to my new bike. (thanks XSL Will for the help, im getting a custom vp free :thumbsup: ) Its hard to accept that your bike that you just got, wont do what you want. I know how you feel about it, but ignoring the facts is just going to get you hurt. Not cool for your bike, Not cool for your body.


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## Alandrex (Aug 11, 2005)

This guy kinda remindes me of that movie shallow hal but with bikes. He thinks he has a great bike but he really just has a fat chick.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz we'll see about that  i havent even ridden it yet i wouldnt know if its good or not, im not going to count my chickens before they hatch but you shouldnt make so many assumptions either havent heard one bad thing about this bike anywhere else and ive had my cousin who works in a bike shop AND is 11 years older than xsl will check it out and he said its strong but hey leave it to me to test her out if it cracks on a 5 footer i always wear a helmet and its only 5 feet anyways plus i got it cheap and am about to purchase a frame for the dirtjumping anyways/


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## Alandrex (Aug 11, 2005)

I think you may want more than a helmet when you try it out. Its gonna be a gnarly crash one of the times. Make sure you have some video. But go ahead and try it.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz you think i would do it more than once? dude i wouldnt do a 5 foot drop with a norco vps and the only reason im doing one is because im going to see if you are right or rong, and i might nor even end up doing it because drops scare me and ill see if any of my friends can do it instead


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## Alandrex (Aug 11, 2005)

We are not saying it will break the first time you do a jump although its is very possible. But it will really stress it for the next time you try.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz eally eh speak for yourself so many people here have said it will break no doubt about it if i take it off a 3 footer


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## Alandrex (Aug 11, 2005)

potvinwannab said:


> lolz eally eh


What is that?


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

ah jeesh doesnt take a genius, i skipped the r in "really" jeesh dunt be a smart allick alright

supposed to read "lolz really eh"

like what other words have "eally" in them


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## Alandrex (Aug 11, 2005)

its just a matter of use. You wouldnt buy a XC bike to jump off cliffs and you wouldnt buy a 8" travel 45 lb downhill bike to climb a mountain. Or maybe you would. I know how you feel about your bike. Like i said earlier I was in the same position. I didnt understand why i couldnt do drops. Just take the advice others are giving. Thats what i did and now im happy and broken frame and body free.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

ahuha nd what was the reason you couldnt do drops?
and if the bike had lockout ofcourse id use the dh for an xc rig


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## Alandrex (Aug 11, 2005)

Because the stuff wasnt made for drops. It wasnt strong enough. The fork bottomed out and so did the shock when it was set very firm. The frame was getting all of the force. I didnt want to break my xc bike so I stopped. Without this forum i probably would have needed a new frame.


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## Ultra Magnus (Jan 13, 2004)

All threads started by pot-wananbe-whatever: http://forums.mtbr.com/search.php?searchid=3437913

Good humor.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

wow i have my own fan club already 

wow you actually searched up my posts


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Yeah, requires all the effort of two left clicks, a right click, left click, then right click, right click, then left click, and two right clicks.


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## Alandrex (Aug 11, 2005)

actually it just takes two clicks. Just into the profile and click on find all threads started by this user.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

are marin bikes any good?


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lmao you guys are so nerdy 

if my friends ever found out i talked to people on a forum about my bike i would probably get made fun of big time...but what do they know


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## Alandrex (Aug 11, 2005)

not bad as far as i can see. I have never had any first hand experience with them. Are you thinking of getting a new bike?


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz mebbe...you guys might have tricked me into it...but xsl_will had absolutely nothing to do with it  it was more all you people that make sense thanx standard 235 and alexandrex, and jp3d humourous  youve convinced me i might not even wait for this one to hand my ass to me on a silver platter

im thinking either a marin a devinci guzzler a khs dirtjumper transition preston or santa cruz heckler or iron horse yakuza all of them have a right price and good qualities...i could have gotten something better if i didnt piss away 640 dolars on this bike but owel live and learn i will probably get a new frame and just transfer the components 

and any of you ever come to woodbridge ontario hit me up and ill beat you in a race


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Alandrex said:


> actually it just takes two clicks. Just into the profile and click on find all threads started by this user.


No, I mean to post the link.

But yeah, I know the 2 clicks.


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## Alandrex (Aug 11, 2005)

HECKLER! Best bike you have on that list. It can take xc and some light dropping. Go for it. Santa Cruz is an amazing company.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

I Need A Response And Quick Ppl Will A 5 Foot 9 Guy Fit A 16 Inch Frame??


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## Alandrex (Aug 11, 2005)

for the heckler?


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

in general


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## Alandrex (Aug 11, 2005)

well bike sizing doesnt compare (medium, large, XL) from company to company.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

well u sed u dun have experience with marin so i guess u wouldnt know


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## Alandrex (Aug 11, 2005)

I may not have experience with the bikes but i know bike geometry.


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Uhhh, I fit fine on my friend's 16" Stinky and I'm 5'6" with a 30" inseam and broad shoulders.


I'd rather have a 14" for flickability though..


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

potvinwannab said:


> lolz we'll see about that  i havent even ridden it yet i wouldnt know if its good or not, im not going to count my chickens before they hatch but you shouldnt make so many assumptions either havent heard one bad thing about this bike anywhere else and ive had my cousin who works in a bike shop AND is 11 years older than xsl will check it out and he said its strong but hey leave it to me to test her out if it cracks on a 5 footer i always wear a helmet and its only 5 feet anyways plus i got it cheap and am about to purchase a frame for the dirtjumping anyways/


Wisdom does not neccesarily come with age. My ex-boss is 40 years old than me, he's still a [email protected] He'll trash talk Kona down the drain, he'll trash talk Santa Cruz down the frame.

If your cousin worked in a shop, he wouldn't have let you pay 600 for it. And you never brought it up before. Sounds like bullsh!t to me.

A DH bike with lockout will still climb like sh!t because of the slack angles and heavy weight.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Sizes run completely different from company to company.

Potinimadumbass, shut up. You're a [email protected]


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

i dont know my cousin much because well hes not "really" my cosuin but he is aCTually my aunts boyfriends son from a previous relationaship, i dont know him much barely talk to him but my uncle had him check it, he had no say in me buying this bike because i didnt even know he worked in a bike shop till my "uncle" told me his name is ryan bell and ill find out from my uncle what the name of the shop he works in tommorow i think its bicyclete or cyclism sum stupid french name and its on a street that begins with d i believe dufferin if i woulda known he worked at a bike shop i would hve gotten parts from him instead of paying for them but owel after i found out i got him to get me a free stem that my uncle is bringing me tommorow

p.s-i call him my uncle because he is my aunts bopyfriend and they live together so whatever


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lmao here comes xsl exauhsting a point that has already been made and adding a little treat for me at the end

u must like me to be investing so much time in me  you must also care since you will stop talking at nothing to prevent me from allowing my left butt cheek to touch my fishers hard seat


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

So your cousin is an uncle that married your aunt?

And even though he told you the bike was good, you never knew about him/met him?

Sounds like a serious case of incest and inbreeding resulting in a shallow gene pool.

Again, darwinism comes into play.


Ignorance is ok. Blatant stupidity is UNACCEPTABLE


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Alandrex said:


> This guy kinda remindes me of that movie shallow hal but with bikes. He thinks he has a great bike but he really just has a fat chick.


No... In Shallow Hal he was seeing the inner beauty of the girl. This kid is just stupid.


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## levee67 (May 13, 2004)

I have an odd compulsion to buy a Fisher Joshua.

damon


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Don't.

Then you'll wanna huck your meat on it.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

ok read what i said


> i dont know my cousin much because well hes not "really" my cosuin but he is aCTually my aunts boyfriends son from a previous relationaship, i dont know him much barely talk to him but my uncle had him check it, he had no say in me buying this bike because i didnt even know he worked in a bike shop till my "uncle" told me his name is ryan bell and ill find out from my uncle what the name of the shop he works in tommorow i think its bicyclete or cyclism sum stupid french name and its on a street that begins with d i believe dufferin if i woulda known he worked at a bike shop i would hve gotten parts from him instead of paying for them but owel after i found out i got him to get me a free stem that my uncle is bringing me tommorow


now read what you wrote


> So your cousin is an uncle that married your aunt?
> 
> And even though he told you the bike was good, you never knew about him/met him?
> 
> ...


i never said i never met him or knew about him, i see him once in a blue moon and even helped him unpack when he came back from vietnam on a trip. i never said my cousin married my aunt smart one i said my cousin isnt really my cousin but my aunts boyfriends son from a previous relationship, so if my aunt and her boyfriend who i consider my uncle anyway were to get married he would be my cousin. I never knew he worked in a bike shop till my "uncle" told me and now i am getting what is left for the bike from him for free (the stem) i bet we'll be spending more time together now that i bike but w/e

my uncle had him check the frame and everything and he said it was fine
you guys try to catch me off guard a little too hard

by the way-i got a devinci guzzler as my dh/fr bike so there happy a bike worth the rear shock
ofcourse xsl will just say its a load of crap and tell me how much he hates devinci but w/e theres a reason he isnt the all powerful loard of the world when it comes to bicycle decisions


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

the guzzler looks good, gusseting, 4 bar linkage (ewwwww), good welds (you know me and welds) 6 inches of travel, ye it looks nice

the only thing i dont like is its wimpy looking rear pivot


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## bleu (Jan 24, 2005)

At this point, anything is better than a Joshua.

But, as I said before.

STOP POSTING AND GO RIDE.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz are you implying a guzzler is bottom of the barrel?

and i ride plenty just not with my mountain bike due to its lacking of a stem / so ive had to bmx

but ive managed to balls to do 2 foot speed drops and ramp jumps


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Oh WOW!

I did a 4 footer to flat on my old Standard 125R.

Carbon fiber fork. Tires at 90psi. NO SUSPENSION AT ALLL.


Chris King hubs. Ti spokes. Velocity rims. IRC Siren tires. Profile cranks. 44-16 gearing, S&M Race bars, Sun Ringle Magnesium pedals or Shimano 520 clips.. 

21lbs and it was a great racer but handled street fine too.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

potvinwannab said:


> ok read what i said
> 
> now read what you wrote
> 
> ...


I didn't say Devinci sucks. You're trying so hard and manipulating my words in such an unskilled way. I said Juanjo seperated the headtube on 3 or 4 frames. Never once did I say Devinci sucks. Moron.


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Porn Is Good At 3am With Nothing To Do!


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

God, the lack of punctuation has made potvinwannab unreadable to me.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lmao its a forum not my resume screw puncuation...
and sorry i wasnt awake at 3 am but i went to bed at 2:11 when i turned on the tv and didnt see the duke bois yet again...


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## decepty (Jun 11, 2006)

snaky69 said:


> God, the lack of punctuation has made potvinwannab unreadable to me.


In Canada, you don't get your punctuation license until you turn 13.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

have you ever heard your cowboy ******* rodeo yahooooo cowboys you got down there in the states? looks to me like you guys dont get your grammar license till your long dead or failed multiple times

and my posts afre perfectly readable or this thread wouldnt have gone on this long!


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Ignorance is ok. Blatant stupidity is unacceptable, *****hh.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz sorry but that was my country he was insulting!


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## xray (May 5, 2005)

decepty said:


> In Canada, you don't get your punctuation license until you turn 13.


Please don't think of this guy when you think of Canada. Please...


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## azonicrider188a (Mar 18, 2006)

i think this thread is more retared them any thread i have evry made and pontivwannabeor w/e should go crawl back in yur hole with the crappy joshua. and dont be bashing hardrocks, that bike will beat out a joshua any day biotch muahhhhhh


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

yes but will a hardrock beat a guzler any day? hah now i own a decent frame and i SAID thank you to everyone(except xsl_will) meaning the thread is over kaput done but since everyone is here and no one is replying to my other post is the devinci guzzler any good? can it take the bigger hits (in the 5-10 foot range?) i already have the joshua for my xc bike so i wont ask about comfort, riding etc.


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

No, nothing over 4 ft. The Guzzler sucks.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

you gotta be kidding


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

No he's serious, strike 2 potvinwannab!


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

potvinwannab said:


> you gotta be kidding


See, dumb****?

You ask question, get answer, and if it isn't what you wanna hear, you contradict it. Durrr...


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Better than what you've got now. 

Comfort bikes are for comfort. XC bikes are for XC. If you want a comfort bike, Specialized Expedition with Body Geometry saddle and grips.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz that wasnt a "you gotta be kidding" as in i dont believe you your bsing...that was a "you gotta be kidding" as in

OH MY GOSH I BOUGHT ANOTHER LEMON AHKABDCKSAUGHVKLGHBVKLSAUHVKJJAHSVACJSAGFKLSBVKLHOGEEEERRGHAAAAHHHHHHHHDAMNITDAMNITDDAMNITWHATDIDIDOTODESERVETHISAGGGHHHH:madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: :madmax:  

AND HOW CULD A FREERIDE BIKE ONLY TAKE A 4 FOOT DROP :madman: :madman: :madmax:


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

potvinwannab said:


> lolz that wasnt a "you gotta be kidding" as in i dont believe you your bsing...that was a "you gotta be kidding" as in
> 
> OH MY GOSH I BOUGHT ANOTHER LEMON AHKABDCKSAUGHVKLGHBVKLSAUHVKJJAHSVACJSAGFKLSBVKLHOGEEEERRGHAAAAHHHHHHHHDAMNITDAMNITDDAMNITWHATDIDIDOTODESERVETHISAGGGHHHH:madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: :madmax:
> 
> AND HOW CULD A FREERIDE BIKE ONLY TAKE A 4 FOOT DROP :madman: :madman: :madmax:


Hahahha... if my friend's Walmart MGX "Mountain Bike" can take it, I think the Guzzler can. LOL


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## bleu (Jan 24, 2005)

Anyone who purchases a bike solely because a bunch of anonymous people on the interwebs told them to needs to have their head examined.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

hey it was cheap and looks alot more capable i dont see why not


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Retarded Todd, The Retodd. Enough said.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

Ok is it safe for a 5 foot nine man to go off a 5 foot drop with a bmx?


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Yes, if he's smooth, no problem.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

uhh that person is me and im not exactly the smoothest lander...infact im quite a violent lander so how easy would it be to bail/ how much damage would there be if i landed on my feet?


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

Again, people are lying to you...
If you hit a five footer on a BMX the bike will implode causing a black hole and further more ending all life as we know it. But fock it, hit it anyways, and remember, video tape it and post it here, assuming existance still exist.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

Do I Take The 5 Footer Or Do I Not Take The 5 Footer On A Bmx Bike??


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

Why do you need such reasurance from complete strangers, if you want to hit it, hit it....


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

hey your the experts


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

this guy seems to be doin it fine...


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

So you ask a question you know the answer to?

Jesus dude...


Do it, my friends do 5 footer to flat all the time on BMX bikes.


And I 50/50'ed a huge ass double, almost 40ft. On a BMX bike. Nashville, Tennessee's BMX track.. first straight. Crazy ****.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

That's not a drop. And that's to a transition. Skateparks are a great place to learn because of the consistency and flow.

It's all about fluidity.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

yah but its a good height and im sure at some point he landed


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

yah....right i need a picture to believe that one:thumbsup:


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Okedoke.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

you call that 5 feet? thats like 3 I could even do THAT lets see your 40 footer


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

Sorry, I don't have pictures. I do however have video. Well, I don't. But one of my friends dads took video of my main. 37ft stepup into AT LEAST 35ft double.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

i doubt anybody could survive a 37 foot drop on a bmx they might aswell freefall because there is no travel and your legs can only soak up so much


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

ok, i just came into this thread because any thread 6 pages long about shocks has the funniest e-arrgument about nothing....this was true to the stereo type

xs-will is right, he always is...hes asian and smart, where as you are white, 15 and dumb

as for the gary fisher pay me 600 and i will kick you in the nuts (im not kidding) straight across, just pay me and i will kick you...sound good?

you shouldnt waste your money on a shock when you should buy a new bike

why the fyck would you take a drop on a fully rigid bmx...personally i would rather use me 6 y/o cousins bumble bee cause it has a front fork and will somewhat protect my wrists

and finnaly,

"LOLZIES this thread is fun giggle giggle, anybody want to come shove thier cock in my mouth? then we can ride gary fisher, then go bking on my gary fisher"-potvinwannab


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

uhhh buddy your a little late there we already agreed the fisher sucked i already bought a new frame and this thread has absolutly nothing to do with shocks any more sorry if you were trying to be funny/

and what are you xsl's b!tch

you cusion the majority of the impact with your legs, and i try to land slightly ngled to my rear tire first


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

and i already take drops up to 3 feet to concrete flat on my bmx and its fine just im a harsh lander and make a 3 foot crater when i land but its certainly do-able just wasnt sure if i could go the distance to 5 feet safely


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

...i stand corrected...i think? not sure if its just a fake photo or edited in some way







and its not 36 feet but certainly high


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

I thought you said 3 feet drops scared you sh!tless?

Zach said 40 foot GAP, not drop. And a 40 foot gap on a racetrack is believable. It's not hard, just got to pump it or you'll come up short.

Straight jumps are very different than drops. And skateparks are very very very different from drops.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

lolz yah they did till my little midget bucktoothed friend took one without ever trying it before, after i saw him take a flawless 3 footer i just said screw it im taking this bike and doing it and i finally did it, terrible landing nose first but after a couple of runs i got it i guess the trick is just go for it dont think about it i cant believe my friend did it on his first run and it took me so long


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

ohhh he said gap? i dont know bmx lingo so maybe they use a different word for gap because i dont remember seeing it


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

He said 40 foot double. Double means it's a jump and landing with a gap in between. That's universal. There aren't really any BMX/MTN specific terms.


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## potvinwannab (Jun 23, 2006)

when i hear jump or gap i think sumone went off a ramp at high speeds and jumped from point a to point b when i heard double i think "wow you did a backflip TWICE before landing from that 40 foot drop? your good, real good, too good"
but thanks for pointing that out to me


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## akhoundog (Apr 10, 2006)

your parents really need to take your pc rights.


that.is.all


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## aenema (Apr 17, 2006)

I'm assuming I'm not the only one who has heard this quote but its bears repeating. "Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, your still retarted". I think I saw it on one of those 'Demotivational' posters.

Buy a Transition Preston FR. Ride it, ride it more, and then go ride again. Of all the bikes you've asked about, it is the most capable and affordable. That and you are supporting a small company with fantastic service. With time, confidence and skills will grow, the bike will support you all along the way.


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## standard235 (Jul 23, 2005)

And before you start flaming him pot, you should learn from him. For a n00b, he knows his ****.

So do what he says. Go ride, wreck, learn from mistakes, die.


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