# Am I too heavy for a full suspension?



## 827090 (Aug 10, 2017)

Hey strangers. So I currently am 6'6" and 355lbs and dropping weight! I've been riding a diamondback mason 29er and it's been a big help in me losing weight. I grew up riding bmx and still ride motorcycles so naturally mountain bikes are a blast to me. 

The mason has been a great bike. I've jumped it on little stuff and have ridden it pretty hard and it hasn't broken a thing other than normal wear and tear stuff. 

My question is, I recently went to snow summit bike park and I loved it. The problem was how limited I was on the hardtail. So I would like to get a nice f/s bike for around $2500. I've had my eye on the diamondback release 1. My concern is the rear shock. Is it doable or is it just not going to work for me yet?


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## mal1969 (Dec 11, 2006)

Back in 2002 I was about 375 and coming off a back injury. I researched a lot of bikes and people told me that I would have to get a hardtail. I ended up getting a full suspension bike and loved it. I was hard on the parts and broke a couple chains and chain rings climbing hills. I wasn't doing any drops or jumps off of it just a lot of single track and fire roads and it worked out fine. I don't know if it will work out well if your planning on doing drops and jumps though. 

I know that with my back injury I was happy that I went with full suspension. I never did have any issues with my rear shock on my bike. I don't think that I got the full benefits from the shock since I was really heavy so could never get it set up perfectly like people were explaining to me. I believe you are able to have a shock made for your weight but they are pretty expensive but that could be an option.

Let me know if you have any other questions. Hope that helps a little.

Mike


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Im 295 pounds currently, and just built my first full suspension bike. Actually just took it for a maiden voyage today. My only gripe is the pedal strikes. I have another 50 psi to play with in the rear shock to reduce my sag a bit, but not sure if it will make enough of a difference to matter. 

So, no, you arent too heavy! But make sure you get one with a bit higher bottom bracket to make peddle strikes a little less of an issue.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Shop around some. Kona make some beefy rides. Check out Zinn bikes and lenz sport. Both for bigger riders. As said, rear shock set up and wheels will be your concern.


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## chasejj (Sep 22, 2008)

You need a bike with a leverage ratio of less than 3:1. Preferably as close to 2:1 as you can get.
This leaves you with a couple of clyde worthy options. 

1) Foes Racing- close to 2:1 uses a longer shock and is the big guy best option at your weight. They can make you a custom frame size with proper reinforcing for a good quality ride.
2) Guerilla Gravity- around 2.5:1 is also a good choice and you should be able to get a decent sag setting within the shock max pressure rating. They will also make you a custom frame that is properly reinforced and sized correctly. This is what I ride. 
There are probably more choices, but not many as most suspension designers push the leverage ratios to close to 3:1 to run shorter shocks (which are lighter). 

Definitely run Shimano Zee or Saint 4 piston brakes and 203 rotors. DT or Chris King hubs and DH level wide rims and tires. 

Good luck. That new bike you get will be costing as much as any dirt bike you ever bought but will hold up if you buy the right parts. There is not anything you can buy from a dealer floor that will hold up or work properly, IMO.


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## johnD (Mar 31, 2010)

chasejj said:


> You need a bike with a leverage ratio of less than 3:1. Preferably as close to 2:1 as you can get.
> This leaves you with a couple of clyde worthy options.
> 
> 1) Foes Racing- close to 2:1 uses a longer shock and is the big guy best option at your weight. They can make you a custom frame size with proper reinforcing for a good quality ride.
> ...


How do you figure out the leverage ratio on bikes ? Ask the manufacture ?


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## chasejj (Sep 22, 2008)

You can ask the mfg.. But most of the people you will talk to have no idea what they are talking about. 
Most linkage designs follow some sort of falling rate curve in the Leverage ratio (LR).
The meaningful point for us Clydes is the LR in the range of sag (25-30%).
There is an engineer who publishes a website where he graphs most new and past bikes.
Linkage Design
Another way but this is more of a crude approximation is to take the wheel travel and divide by shock travel. That will give you an average LR. 
I can tell you from experience that as you get closer to 3:1 it gets difficult to achieve proper sag and remain under the PSI limits of most air cans. Coil springs get very heavy at the rates needed to support you as well, if you can even get them.
To be honest. At your current weight I would get a really good all mountain hardtail and build it with a 36 Fox fork. and ride the **** out of it . When you get to 300 then swap the parts over to a full suspension design.
I would recommend Guerilla Gravity as they have a dynamite HT frame (Pedalhead) with long reach for big guys and uses same parts specs as their FS bikes.


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## mark! (Jun 1, 2012)

6'1 at 360 and I ride a Santa Cruz Tallboy FS and a Trek Caliber 7 frame that I built up as a 1x11 with XT and ZEE components. The XT stuff has held up fine. Both bikes are running Stan's Flows, 29 inch wheels. I've been told as a clyde you can't ride full squishy, that you can use XT stuff, that you can't jump things, and I've done all that and more. You'll break things, you'll throw the wheels out of true, and you'll have to spend some coin but that's the nature of the beast. If you're careful and ride more tame you'll be fine. As you get more experienced you'll also stop breaking things as your skill improves and you learn to finesse and pick better lines. Most of my issues came from stupid lines.


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## chasejj (Sep 22, 2008)

mark! said:


> 6'1 at 360 and I ride a Santa Cruz Tallboy FS and a Trek Caliber 7 frame that I built up as a 1x11 with XT and ZEE components. The XT stuff has held up fine. Both bikes are running Stan's Flows, 29 inch wheels. I've been told as a clyde you can't ride full squishy, that you can use XT stuff, that you can't jump things, and I've done all that and more. You'll break things, you'll throw the wheels out of true, and you'll have to spend some coin but that's the nature of the beast. If you're careful and ride more tame you'll be fine. As you get more experienced you'll also stop breaking things as your skill improves and you learn to finesse and pick better lines. Most of my issues came from stupid lines.


If I may ask. What sag are you running at what PSI?
Your bike sits at around 2.6-7 LR at the sag point making your PSI maybe 330+?

Build correctly and don't try to be lightest on componentry and you will last. But you do need to be smoooooth.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

I'm running into the sag issue right now. But I think it's more shock related than setup or bike. I'm running a Monarch RT3 Debonair and I can't get it above 30-35% sag even at 350psi. And at that sag, the pedals are like 2-3 inches off the ground. Nearly unrideable.

I just ordered a standard air can for it. Going to see if it helps.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## chasejj (Sep 22, 2008)

R_Pierce said:


> I'm running into the sag issue right now. But I think it's more shock related than setup or bike. I'm running a Monarch RT3 Debonair and I can't get it above 30-35% sag even at 350psi. And at that sag, the pedals are like 2-3 inches off the ground. Nearly unrideable.
> 
> I just ordered a standard air can for it. Going to see if it helps
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


If you haven't installed a bevy of volume spacers you should try that as well. You should be at 30% max. on that bike. Use the climb switch as well whenever you have a smooth climb. 
The other thing to consider is that NO stock shock or fork had any of us in mind when they developed the damping rates for those forks and shocks. Pretty much I run little to no compression damping and maxed on Rebound. I wouldn't hesitate to send it out for a tune for your weight and bike design.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Yeah, I was reading that the new debonair cans have a dimple at the 15% sag point to neutralize pressure between the positive and negative chambers. The old non-debonair cans are supposed to get rid of that.

I was able to get around 25% sag with 2 bands in the negative chambers and 6 bands in the positive but it made the shock useless. Couldnt get the shock to compress past 50% travel even jumping on the thing.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## chasejj (Sep 22, 2008)

R_Pierce said:


> Yeah, I was reading that the new debonair cans have a dimple at the 15% sag point to neutralize pressure between the positive and negative chambers. The old non-debonair cans are supposed to get rid of that.
> 
> I was able to get around 25% sag with 2 bands in the negative chambers and 6 bands in the positive but it made the shock useless. Couldnt get the shock to compress past 50% travel even jumping on the thing.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


That's kind of the dilemma of suspension bikes for anyone over 280+.

You likely won't get the full travel soft suspension you expect due to the physical limits of compressed air. Coil shocks would provide a more linear and compliant experience but you simply run out of spring rate around the 800 lb/in mark which is still not sufficient with many LR's on the market and is considerably heavier (noticeable).
Get yourelf a decent linkage design with a LR in the Low 2's and you should be OK or go for an AM Hardtail and get a good custom sized frame to make it comfortable and you will enjoy it more than struggling with setup constantly and searching for a setting that just doesn't exist.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

chasejj said:


> That's kind of the dilemma of suspension bikes for anyone over 280+.
> 
> You likely won't get the full travel soft suspension you expect due to the physical limits of compressed air. Coil shocks would provide a more linear and compliant experience but you simply run out of spring rate around the 800 lb/in mark which is still not sufficient with many LR's on the market and is considerably heavier (noticeable).
> Get yourelf a decent linkage design with a LR in the Low 2's and you should be OK or go for an AM Hardtail and get a good custom sized frame to make it comfortable and you will enjoy it more than struggling with setup constantly and searching for a setting that just doesn't exist.


I came from a Framed Marqueete Carbon HT to this full suspension. The full suspension is considerably faster all around. Im confident that I can get some sort of compromise. Its just going to take some tinkering with I think. I also sent an email into DVO to see what they had to say about being such a lard a** and trying to get the bike to work.


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## chasejj (Sep 22, 2008)

R_Pierce said:


> I came from a Framed Marqueete Carbon HT to this full suspension. The full suspension is considerably faster all around. Im confident that I can get some sort of compromise. Its just going to take some tinkering with I think. I also sent an email into DVO to see what they had to say about being such a lard a** and trying to get the bike to work.


OK- FWIW- Nothing wrong with a RS Monarch properly setup. No matter what you do. I'd get a suspension tuner to change the rebound tune inside the shock anyway. Otherwise there will be no way to get it to behave using 300+psi.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Does anyone tune the RS Monarch shocks?

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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I'll chime in and probably get chastised for it, but with your budget and at your current weight, I'd say yes, an FS will not work for you, keep riding the Mason until you drop some more weight or can increase your budget, unless you can find something used. 

Of bikes that would work for you, look to brands known to build burlier frames, make sure and get burly wheels using 36 spokes, and rims not under 550g, a fork with at least 34mm stanchions.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

LyNx said:


> I'll chime in and probably get chastised for it, but with your budget and at your current weight, I'd say yes, an FS will not work for you, keep riding the Mason until you drop some more weight or can increase your budget, unless you can find something used.
> 
> Of bikes that would work for you, look to brands known to build burlier frames, make sure and get burly wheels using 36 spokes, and rims not under 550g, a fork with at least 34mm stanchions.


Nah, why would you get chastised? Every opinion counts for something!

I'll say my current bike is a 32mm stanchion Reba RL and working OK thus far. The rear shock gives me more issues than the front fork.

My wheels are Hope Hoops. So far so good!! But being heavy can definitely be hard on things!!

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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

You must be taking it easy on the trails then, because even at my piddly fully geared weight of about 185lbs when I rode a Reba, I used to be amazed at how much for/aft flex that thing had, I moved to a Manitou Minute with 20mm TA and that improved things greatly, then I moved to a 34mm stanchion, 15mm TA fork and again, big improvement, not only in less for/aft, but also steering precision.



R_Pierce said:


> Nah, why would you get chastised? Every opinion counts for something!
> I'll say my current bike is a 32mm stanchion Reba RL and working OK thus far. The rear shock gives me more issues than the front fork. My wheels are Hope Hoops. So far so good!! But being heavy can definitely be hard on things!!


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Oh, it's got flex! But it's not something I worry about failing. Taking burned corners and flow sections at 295lbs isn't too easy on anything. But we have mostly single track here.

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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

LyNx said:


> You must be taking it easy on the trails then, because even at my piddly fully geared weight of about 185lbs when I rode a Reba, I used to be amazed at how much for/aft flex that thing had, I moved to a Manitou Minute with 20mm TA and that improved things greatly, then I moved to a 34mm stanchion, 15mm TA fork and again, big improvement, not only in less for/aft, but also steering precision.


I agree with LyNx the Reba would twist with hard riding with me at 200.
I would wait till you get down to 300. Then look into bikes like Gorilla Gravity and Banchee. They are tough bikes and have a slight rising rate on their bikes.


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## johnD (Mar 31, 2010)

Guerrilla Gravity is a good bike , made in USA.


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## chasejj (Sep 22, 2008)

R_Pierce said:


> Does anyone tune the RS Monarch shocks?
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


There are a bunch of tuners out there. I have used Dirtlabs. Push is who I use typically but I don't know if they do Rockshox anymore.


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## johnD (Mar 31, 2010)

chasejj said:


> There are a bunch of tuners out there. I have used Dirtlabs. Push is who I use typically but I don't know if they do Rockshox anymore.


What do you think about the Camber ? I weigh 265 lb.


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## chasejj (Sep 22, 2008)

johnD said:


> What do you think about the Camber ? I weigh 265 lb.


I am not a fan of buying off the floor mass produced bikes. They are made for people between 120-200lbs. Once you get above that you are pushing their frames wheels and forks as they are all sized for that target market.

Big guys need 35/36mm forks and beefier wheel builds with bulletproof hub designs (CK or DT).Lower gears to climb. Larger rotors.

The mass produced stuff forces you to repurchase all those parts and sometimes their frames come with weight limits as well.

Thats a long way of saying look at other stuff.

if you simply have to go mass produced. Start with the bikes that come stock with the 35/36mm forks.


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## Sasquatch1413 (Nov 6, 2008)

I'm about 6'4" and 330 lbs. I've looked at the Camber before as it had a very low leverage ratio, not sure about the current model though. Camber might be questionable as far as durability goes. Right now I'm rolling the 2017 Niner RIP9 Alum version. Big bike but it has a low leverage ratio and even at 330 lbs I'm only running 325 psi in the Monarch + out of a max of 350 psi. Could work for you.


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## RinoHorn (Aug 14, 2017)

I'm 6' 300lbs. Been on a Camber Comp 29 for 18 months. Only upgraded the wheels to Stans FLOW on Hope hubs. Great bike! Had no issues.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

One thing not mentioned yet is a fat or plus bike. Surly makes some sturdy stuff, say a Krampus with a beefy fork. Not full sus but a fat/plus bike has lots of things going for it.


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## johnD (Mar 31, 2010)

RinoHorn said:


> I'm 6' 300lbs. Been on a Camber Comp 29 for 18 months. Only upgraded the wheels to Stans FLOW on Hope hubs. Great bike! Had no issues.


good to hear. :thumbsup:

specialized , giant , salsa and cannondale are what I have to choose from at my lbs.


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## johnD (Mar 31, 2010)

chasejj said:


> You can ask the mfg.. But most of the people you will talk to have no idea what they are talking about.
> Most linkage designs follow some sort of falling rate curve in the Leverage ratio (LR).
> The meaningful point for us Clydes is the LR in the range of sag (25-30%).
> There is an engineer who publishes a website where he graphs most new and past bikes.
> ...


great website , I found the Camber has low leverage ratio an the jeffsy I was looking at is pretty high.


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## IceBuerg (Apr 7, 2015)

For those of us that might have to go for a mass-produced ride, what do you guys think about the new SC Hightower and Hightower LT? They both come with GX Eagle, Fox 36 and Float Performance DPS at the S build level of $4900, and I can get either on sale very soon. The rims are 32 hole. Sounds good, but the leverage ratio is around 2.6. Geared up I'm around 275 lbs. 

Any thoughts?


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

IceBuerg said:


> For those of us that might have to go for a mass-produced ride, what do you guys think about the new SC Hightower and Hightower LT? They both come with GX Eagle, Fox 36 and Float Performance DPS at the S build level of $4900, and I can get either on sale very soon. The rims are 32 hole. Sounds good, but the leverage ratio is around 2.6. Geared up I'm around 275 lbs.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Same weight. I just got a DiamondBack Release 3. 150/130 gives 1.15 and the website above shows the Release being Regressive-Progressive (2.2-2.55-1.9)...if those numbers really mean a whole lot. I haven't fully set it up yet but I don't think I'll have any problem setting sag. Front is already ok. Just need to add a little more air to the rear. To my door for $2,200 too pretty nicely equipped.


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## DyerTM (Aug 4, 2012)

New bikes are nice and all, but there are a whole slew of used bikes that will work well for bigger guys. I have been riding a HT XC bike for years and finally picked up a FS freeride bike this summer.

The biggest issue I have with the current crop of new bikes is the shift to air shocks on everything. Now I know they have their advantages in being lighter and more adjustable, but for a big guy I don't feel they are practical. I did a lot of researching before I laid down money and I can say I'm super happy.

I ended up finding a super clean 2006 Iron Horse 7.3 that uses the classic DW-Link suspension design. That paired with a Fox Vanilla RC running a 650lb spring and it bombs down the trails great, takes drops with ease and climbs like no other FS bike I've ridden. As a reference point, I'm 5'11" and with my riding gear on I sit about 275lbs.

I love the coil spring setup as dialing in sag was super simple and now that I've got the low speed compression and rebound where I like it I'm not constantly having to worry about adjustments. I can just grab my bike and go!


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

So...to keep this thread going...first of all...where's the OP? Second...those that were having issues...any solutions?

I'm in a new position...my Release 3 kinda crapped the bed. Not really, but it had some minor issues out of the box. Bent cassette, a little cosmetic damage. Neither that big an issue and easily dealt with. But then there's a rear suspension alignment issue that seems to be plaguing some of the DB full suspension bikes in the Release and Catch lineup. An issue that after pulling the axle on the lower pivots for servicing...the axle won't go back in without some brute force (hammer), so there's something not lining up. No one seems to have figured it out yet. One person reports that DB sent them new linkage parts and bearings and it seemed to maybe fix the problem for that person. DB is doing the same for another guy but he hasn't gotten his yet. Me....since I have three issues even though two are minor...they are requesting my bike to be returned which kinda sucks. But anyways....that leaves me with a decision to make...

I do feel that the Release is a solid bike. Perfectly suitable for someone my size (270 nekkid) so I don't feel the need to spend twice as much to get something burlier or custom built. What I am debating is dropping down a level and getting a Release 2 instead of the 3. Saves me $300 so I can use that to maybe buy parts for a new wheelset, put towards a better shock (see below), or just a rear hub to lace into the stock rim once the stock hub explodes which I'm almost expecting to happen. Of course I could just pocket the money too but what fun is that. Anyways...downgrading I'd get GX drivetrain instead of X1, Level Brakes instead of Guide. The Pike fork is just the RC and not the RCT3...I doubt I'll notice any difference in these downgrades, brakes maybe but not the other stuff. My main concern if there should be any concern is the shock. I'll be going from the Monarch Plus RC3 DebonAir to the Monarch RT3 DebonAir. Does anyone know if the Monarch Plus RC3 DebonAir is a better shock for a heavier rider or will the non-plus be just as suitable? 

Also...any benefit to maybe even swapping out for a coil....Cane Creek has the DB Coil and their calculator seems to thing that a 550 or 600 spring is enough for my weight and bike. I'm an absolute full suspension newb so I don't know much (anything really) about shocks and trying to learn. I don't know much about forks either since I've been largely riding road and rigid...I've just not taken the time to learn about these things but now I want to.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Nubster said:


> So...to keep this thread going...first of all...where's the OP? Second...those that were having issues...any solutions?
> 
> I'm in a new position...my Release 3 kinda crapped the bed. Not really, but it had some minor issues out of the box. Bent cassette, a little cosmetic damage. Neither that big an issue and easily dealt with. But then there's a rear suspension alignment issue that seems to be plaguing some of the DB full suspension bikes in the Release and Catch lineup. An issue that after pulling the axle on the lower pivots for servicing...the axle won't go back in without some brute force (hammer), so there's something not lining up. No one seems to have figured it out yet. One person reports that DB sent them new linkage parts and bearings and it seemed to maybe fix the problem for that person. DB is doing the same for another guy but he hasn't gotten his yet. Me....since I have three issues even though two are minor...they are requesting my bike to be returned which kinda sucks. But anyways....that leaves me with a decision to make...
> 
> ...


At your weight, I wouldnt even bother with a stock RT3, especially the debonair. They have a dimple in the can that equalizes the positive and negative chambers at around 15% sag. It takes a lot of pressure to get anything less than about 30% sag on the shock, and then its just a damn pogo stick. I learned that the hard way.

To be honest, you would be MUCH happier with a Manitou McLeod rear shock.

I dont see why either fork wouldnt work, and the GX groupset is very solid! Im not a huge fan of SRAM brakes no matter, so thats a wash to me.

I would buy the 2, get a McLeod rear shock and save for a hub.

I dont think you will have much luck finding a coil that will work for our weight. You might be right on the edge, but I know I was told multiple times that at 295 pounds, I would have issues. Which is why I pulled off the RT3 and went with the McLeod. And, its simply amazing even in stock form!


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Yeah...I'm only going by the calculator on Cane Creeks site...not actual experience or research. I'll check into the McLeod as well. 

As far as the Monarch...it's not been too bad for me in the two rides I have on it. It still needs tuning but I think honestly it would work. Mine is at 300 psi with 4 spacers. I haven't tried more or less spacers. 

As far as the rest of the stuff...yeah...I don't think there's a hit in quality. GX is good. The Pike is I believe pretty much the same but lacking the 3 Position Compression Damping control which I'd probably never use anyways. Brakes...yeah...never had SRAM mountain bike brakes before. The Guides were ok albeit noisy this past Sunday. But I'd be tempted to sell the Guides and throw some Shimano SLX or XT on there or even some Zee's.

Are you using the regular or King Can Manitou?


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

And for what it's worth...I'm down to 265 now. I let me diet go to crap the last couple months but now I'm back on track and fully expect to be around 250 by end of next month. So that should help me a lot as far as parts or setup.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Nubster said:


> Yeah...I'm only going by the calculator on Cane Creeks site...not actual experience or research. I'll check into the McLeod as well.
> 
> As far as the Monarch...it's not been too bad for me in the two rides I have on it. It still needs tuning but I think honestly it would work. Mine is at 300 psi with 4 spacers. I haven't tried more or less spacers.
> 
> ...


Just get the zees. The weight penalty is meaningless, as is the loss of adjustment... but we get to feel what brakes are like for the smaller folk. They're incredible brakes. Mine are going on 7 years and they're still one of the best bike purchases i've made.

As for the pike; the rct3 has a more supple shim stack than the RC. I have an rct3, and although it's marginally better than the RC forks i've used my impression is that the difference between the two is very small when you're a clydesdale. That said, i find the pikes kinda disappointingly flexy. Not so much it's problematic, but the stiff forks i've had are perceptibly better, even when they shouldn't have been.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Just one little note for you when you get the Zees, don't expect the almost immediate hard breaking the Xts give you right out the box, the Zees take some time to bed in, but when they do, holy cow. Don't have any personally, yet, but did equip a big guys bike with some and when I first installed them was really under whelmed, told him to take his time, probably needed to be bedded in properly. When he brought the bike back the next time to service, holy cow what a difference, super strong, nice feel.



scottzg said:


> Just get the zees. The weight penalty is meaningless, as is the loss of adjustment... but we get to feel what brakes are like for the smaller folk. They're incredible brakes. Mine are going on 7 years and they're still one of the best bike purchases i've made.


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