# Rebirth of the Klein Rascal



## blasted (May 23, 2010)

This seems like the more appropriate forum to post this useless info, so here goes. I had originally posted this in the bikes and frames section:

"Hows it going? I have my old Rascal that at the moment needs a complete rebuild to be ridable again, I have bookmarked, all the parts needed to get this steed back on the trail using a mix of old and new XT components. I can buy for $600- $700 and the Rascal is reborn in all of it's rigid form and weighing in at about 22 lbs

The other option is to take that cash and go for a 29er. I have looked and in that price range, I am just not feeling the love for any of the bikes so far...the only bike that gets my vote was a Niner air 9 with full XTR for $4000 which just ain't going to happen. So I humbly bow to you all and ask for your opinion and we all know about opinions right?? LOL"

Well, I did get one response.....

So I pulled the trigger and ordered the parts to rebuild the Rascal. I spent today pressing out the bottom bracket and sanding and scotch brighting the frame,,,yeah It's a nekked Rascal. Now, I know some of the purest will be throwing a hissy fit but I stripped this frame 18 years ago when it wasn't fashionable to do so and even today it looks way better than hot pink and black. 

Anyway I still need a few more boxes to show up on my door step to complete the Rascal back to its original glory but I did get a lot done today and at least now I have a rolling frame after today's efforts. I feel good and can't wait for the rest to show up...:cornut: :rockon:


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

You did the right thing.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

i like it.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

What Mech said.

I had a Rascal for a while and it was an awesome riding bike. I think you'll be happy with your efforts.


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

You sure man??? I keep hearing that my Rascal is outdated and I need the new style BB and that my shifters are outdated and whatnot... I say screw it, try to keep up!!

BTW My bottom bracket is almost 20 years old an the ONLY reason that It need replacing is because there is no more grease left in there. My two new bearings will be here shortly and then I should be good to go for the next 20 years or so. I will try to post some pics later, as it gets more ridable.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

blasted said:


> You sure man??? I keep hearing that my Rascal is outdated and I need the new style BB and that my shifters are outdated and whatnot... I say screw it, try to keep up!!
> 
> BTW My bottom bracket is almost 20 years old an the ONLY reason that It need replacing is because there is no more grease left in there. My two new bearings will be here shortly and then I should be good to go for the next 20 years or so. I will try to post some pics later, as it gets more ridable.


Depends on what kind of trails you're riding (and of course what kind of rider you are).
90% of the time I ride vintage bikes and its a lot of fun to dispatch long travel bikes on trails that don't require them.
But when we want to ride the rough stuff, take jumps or really rail...modern technology is a wonderful thing.

That said, looking forward to the rebuild and pics. Make the guys on the $5k wonder bikes look stupid.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Rascals are indeed worthy steeds. And for the amount you are putting in, you've got a solid ride while you keep saving for the 4k dually.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

You did the right thing. Even though you are dropping a pretty significant chunk of change Rascals are pretty kick ass. Very popular among the single speed crowd. Eric makes a good point. There is nothing like blowing past modern full sussers on the flats or up the hills.


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

My neck of the woods, here in Mi, is pretty flat. I like the rigid for the trails around here. I will get some pics up tomorrow maybe. Thanks for the encouragement!!:skep:


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

so far I am in $411. I may need a` new front cati if I can't fint the other half. Other than that I should be back on the road. We will see.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Oh yeah---this thread needs pics!


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

The bottom bracket after 20 years and a 10 minute soda blast....


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

I have an 89 Pinnicle that I ride rigid as a commuter bike. How can a 22# bike be too old school? There is something to be said for rigid. I rode my Truth the other day after all winter on a fat bike and the spring on the Pinnicle and it felt like a marshmellow. I suspect I could get used to the marshmellow again but simple and rigid has its place. You totally did the right thing. The 29r would be way heavier in the price range.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

sandmangts said:


> There is nothing like blowing past modern full sussers on the flats or up the hills.


What about the down hills?


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## space49 (Jan 24, 2010)

I look forward to seeing the completed Rascal. At least someone responded. :thumbsup:


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## 42069LOL (Jun 6, 2010)

Signed up for this thread. Working on an 89 Rascal that's going to be my cross country bike! Anyways, can my 89 Rascal take a new, external bottom bracket?

Get a load of this beauty... too bad I missed out on it:
http://denver.craigslist.org/bik/1771973246.html


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

The BB pics are a nice teaser, keep us posted. BTW if you grow tied of polishing the raw aluminum there is a guy in the UK who is producing some pretty amazing Klein paint replicas, see the RetrobikeUK thread here: http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48408&highlight=klein+mardi


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

Pictures huh.... This is all I can do for now.. enjoy!


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

If it was pink and black, it was probably a 1990 version.

What is with that hub, definitely not of the bike's vintage, unless of course you aren't trying for all period correct. Also, what is a soda blast, just baking soda & water?

Why not consider skipping paint or polishing and brushing it? I have seen some great looking brushed bikes.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Or you could paint it silver pearl


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

pinguwin said:


> If it was pink and black, it was probably a 1990 version.
> 
> What is with that hub, definitely not of the bike's vintage, unless of course you aren't trying for all period correct. Also, what is a soda blast, just baking soda & water?
> 
> Why not consider skipping paint or polishing and brushing it? I have seen some great looking brushed bikes.


I purchased it new in 90.:thumbsup: I am rebuilding with new XT stuff to replace the dead, whala the new hubs and wheels. I killed the originals and they are now used as dollies to move an iceboat..... moving on.

Soda blasting is just that, compressed air at 90psi and baking soda. The tube creates a low pressure witch in turns sucks up the soda and blast it out the end. Works great for aluminum and things that are to delicate for other types of media blasting.


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

I like!!


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## xy9ine (Feb 2, 2005)

i've got the same bike - only w/ the original radioactive pinky awesomeness:


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Could you start another thread detailing the "soda-blast" process - looks like a great enviroment friendly cleaning method.


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## Joe Steel (Dec 30, 2003)

Found this:


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

That is it in a nut shell. Thanks for posting that. The pencil thing is just to keep the end in the box from curling up. I didn't use it. You just have to keep shaking the box. For quick and down and dirty it works great. Mine cost nothing as I had all the supplies on hand.


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

*Uh OHH.... help*

I need some help here people!! PLEASE....

I had a Bio pace 46, 36, 26 on the front when the bike was newer. I ordered a new xt crank and it came in at a 42, 32, 22. The 46 ring don't even come close to fitting on the newer crank. My question is can I use the newer crank and gears with the older bio pace 7 speed Cassette which is a 32-13 7speed?:skep: I am out of my league hereI need some help here people!! PLEASE.... I have no clue...


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

You'll be fine using it, but you should look for a cassette with an 11T small cog otherwise you'll feel under-geared.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

blasted said:


> I need some help here people!! PLEASE....
> 
> I had a Bio pace 46, 36, 26 on the front when the bike was newer. I ordered a new xt crank and it came in at a 42, 32, 22. The 46 ring don't even come close to fitting on the newer crank. My question is can I use the newer crank and gears with the older bio pace 7 speed Cassette which is a 32-13 7speed?:skep: I am out of my league hereI need some help here people!! PLEASE.... I have no clue...


Like...new new XT cranks? Totally different bolt patterns. Old rings won't fit on the new cranks.

The new cranks and rings I'm assuming are 9 speed. Not ideal to run brand new 9 speed rings with a worn 7 speed cassette (cassettes aren't bio-pace).

For simplicity's sake, go all new, or go all old.


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

I checked and my old cranks were FC-M730 the newer replacement that I got are FC-M737. I don't know how much newer they are but yes the bolt hole pattern does not match the old rings. Don't I remember seeing a shimano list somewhere that had all the #'s and the years they were out? Can someone point me in that direction? Thank you for the help.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Mombat Shimano timeline


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

I hope your having as much as I did restoring my Rascal 







​


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Nice Fork Choice!*

Its funny how the Pepperoni makes the main triangle tubes look tiny.


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

blasted said:


> I checked and my old cranks were FC-M730 the newer replacement that I got are FC-M737. I don't know how much newer they are but yes the bolt hole pattern does not match the old rings. Don't I remember seeing a shimano list somewhere that had all the #'s and the years they were out? Can someone point me in that direction? Thank you for the help.


M730 cranks were used through 6 and 7 speed versions of XT. M737 was eight speed which used the same width chain and rear cog spacing as the seven speed. So, you shouldn't have any compatibility problems using the newer cranks/chain rings with the older rear cassette.


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

mechagouki, Thanks for that link!! I knew I had seen it before.:thumbsup: 

J Ro, I am having a blast. It is good to have some garage time and beer time and me time! How do you like the single speed? What would you change if you could?

Muddy, That news made my day! I haven't had time to look through the shimano page yet, guess I don't have to now huh? 

The new bearings should be here today when I get home from work. I got the new/used cranks cleaned up and drank plenty last night to keep me out of trouble....man, mornings suck!! :nono:


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Fyi*

The 737s are spec'ed for a much narrower BB spindle than the 730s


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

Shayne said:


> Its funny how the Pepperoni makes the main triangle tubes look tiny.


Thanks, I chose it for a few reasons. I have always liked to match frame materials in my builds so I wanted something that was aluminium like the frame. The frame is light so I wanted an equally light fork. Lastly, I like the look of the oversize fork legs with the over size aluminum frame tubes.

The ride is not too bad with tubeless tires (2.3) and ESI chunkie grips.


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

blasted said:


> mechagouki, Thanks for that link!! I knew I had seen it before.:thumbsup:
> 
> J Ro, I am having a blast. It is good to have some garage time and beer time and me time! How do you like the single speed? What would you change if you could?
> 
> ...


I love the singlespeed. The best thing I did to keep the bike rideable (although not very VRC) was the larger and tubless tires. I went with vbrakes, but if I had XTR canti's they would have been my first choice.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Shayne said:


> The 737s are spec'ed for a much narrower BB spindle than the 730s


That's a very good point, you'll need to look for a 112mm (I think) Spindle for your BB - this project could run and run! Just keep pounding down the beers and everything will come together,


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

108mm per Klein manual


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Yeah, I forgot about spindle length issues. The M730 usually used a 122.5mm spindle, if I remember correctly.


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

My spindle is 125 mm...best guess on the scale of the calipers with the dead battery. What kind of problem is that gonna cause? I had the cranks on and there is no clearance issue with any of the front rings?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

chainline


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

So I won't be able to go from big ring to big ring?


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Your middle ring should be 50mm from the front-centre of your seat tube, give or take a millimetre.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

blasted said:


> So I won't be able to go from big ring to big ring?


Get out.


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## 42069LOL (Jun 6, 2010)

Hey still here, still working on my Rascal to be my cross country bike for this year. This weekend I'm going to get down to brass tacks. It appears that one of my internal cable sleeves has gotten all messed up to the point it won't work.

J Ro: Did you have the same problem with yours (looks great by the way), hence the zip tie on the top tube? Will the housing rub up against the paint? 

Any words of wisdom?

EDIT: Where do you get those clean ass decals from? Luck? Ebay?


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

42069LOL said:


> Hey still here, still working on my Rascal to be my cross country bike for this year. This weekend I'm going to get down to brass tacks. It appears that one of my internal cable sleeves has gotten all messed up to the point it won't work.
> 
> J Ro: Did you have the same problem with yours (looks great by the way), hence the zip tie on the top tube? Will the housing rub up against the paint?
> 
> ...


I ran full length housing because I used a V brake instead of a canti. It did not damage my finish at all it is powder coat (not paint)

Check you PM's.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Rumpfy said:


> Get out.


...


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

Really?


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

I doubt it, though you never can tell.


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

http://coachlevi.com/cycling/proper-chainline-example/

was just the first of many search results on why noone should ever do it.
guess the notion of some noob doing it to a nice bike like that is just too much for some VRC lovers to stand.


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

Now I see the light....GET OUT !!  hey I warned you that that I was out of my league here with the gears and drivetrain....Thank you for clearing it up, I don't feel as dumb now...moving on, nothing to see here, all is good.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

blasted said:


> Now I see the light....GET OUT !!  hey I warned you that that I was out of my league here with the gears and drivetrain....Thank you for clearing it up, I don't feel as dumb now...moving on, nothing to see here, all is good.


  It was sarcasm. Don't get out....but also don't ever run your bike in the big/big gear. Its generally considered bad form.

EDIT: byknuts got it.


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

I know now that it was big guy...just had to have something to write about while waiting on parts. Hey and I did learn me something new too, and so did many others that read this thread. It is good stuff happening here and I thank you! `


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## jcrew94123 (Aug 6, 2009)

blasted said:


> Really?


Pay them no attention.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

jcrew94123 said:


> Pay them no attention.


cross chaining = no bueno










no offense to the new guy


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

What goes on? I have an update for you, if you care or not, you are reading it......So, thanks to you guys for pointing out the fact that I have the wrong crank! I really do appreciate it and I have found the correct crank on ebay and have a bid on it. We shall see how that goes.

I did get the bearings installed, WITH loctite, and put the m737 cranks on and measured. As suggested I should have 50 mm or so, from the center of the seat tube to the middle ring, and I don't so I aint gonna do it.

Lets hear your thoughts on a single speed verses a 1x9 verses a 3x24! I ask because in going through the old rapid fire shifters, I noticed that one of them is broke and can not be reused. It is the left side shifter and I don't remember if it was the front or rear....Flame away.

Thanks for the help..


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Nothing wrong with being up front about holes in your knowledge - the left shifter controls the front derailleur, you wont need it if you're running a single ring up front. I would recommend 1 x 8 or even 1x 7 over 1x9, to further hammer home the cross-gearing point, you shouldn't run the chain on the top and bottom sprockets of a 9 speed cassette whilst in the middle ring at the front - it's not as bad as big/big, but will still cause premature chain/sprocket wear and excess noise.

If you decide to run triple in front you might consider using a thumb shifter for the front derailleur, single left thumbies are (for some reason) fairly easy to find, and being able to trim your front derailleur precisely is something you can never do with Rapidfire.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

In addition, cranking hard with a crossed-up chainline can cause you beak your chain.

You can probably get away with running a 9 speed (narrow) chain in a 1 x 8 configuration to save some weight, or if you already have the parts.


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

So I won the CORRECT cranks off the ebay today. Anyone need a set of M737's??

So, now, while waiting for the correct crank to show, gotta have more questions...It goes like this. I have my original chain rings and cassette, can I use the old cassette on the new wheels?? 

Wheels = FH M770
cassette = hyperglide 7 speed

I believe that I need a 1 mm spacer?? Can you either confirm or deny this?? :yikes:


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

:cornut: YEAHHHH!!!!! After 15-16 years or so the Rascal went for it first ride today as a single speed!! I can't even speak, I am so stinken happy.

I have the correct cranks installed and my old chain rings. I have my old cassette and a spacer for the 7 speed cassette to the 9 speed hub. I think???

I think my spacer is to big, Do you know the correct dimension for the spacer? Here is the what I have; M770 hub and an old 7 speed hyperglide cassette. I need your expertise here, I am guessing that I need a 1mm spacer and the one I have is more like 2.5mm please help as I want to ride tonight???

Never mind I got it. I went to the shop and measured it out. I did have to grind the spacer down a bit but I am good now!! Let the assembly begin.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

blasted said:


> :cornut: YEAHHHH!!!!! After 15-16 years or so the Rascal went for it first ride today as a single speed!! I can't even speak, I am so stinken happy.


:thumbsup:


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

Well I had some issues with the shifters and basically I don't have shifters....I have been cruising around with in a 36-19 gear combo with a shortened chain and I am kinda of dig'n it. That gear combo feels a a bit to easy and I am thinking that I might go single speed all the way now. I need to tie up some loose ends and again I am waiting on parts to show. It does feel good to be back on the road after so many years. My legs hate me right now!


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

Hey guys, I want to thank you for helping, cheering, kick'n me on to get this build done. I am not done yet but the rascal is done for now....read, out of cash. This was my first build and I learned tons along the way, mostly from here. Here is the list if you are interested.

New Shimano XT M770/Mavic XM719 Rear Wheel 36 spoke
New Shimano XT M770/Mavic XM719 Front Wheel 32 spoke
New Rigid Non Disc Fork 1in. threaded
New stainless steel sealed bearings in BB
replacement cranks Shimano M770's 175's
Chris king 16 tooth rear cog
Surley spacer kit
Using old chain shortened 
Using old XT peddles have old SPD's need new shoes 
Using old XT shifter/brakes with no shifter. Will change later on.
Using old XT pads on old Suntour brakes Rear only for now.
Using old Klein Mission control bar
Using old seat.

Now that it is done and operational I plan on stripping it back down and going to town on the frame. Maybe a new paint job, maybe powdercoat, maybe anodized??? we'll see about that in the future. For now I am just gonna ride it and get my fat azz back into shape. Thanks again for all the help and I hope to see you on the trail!! Peace out!!


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## 42069LOL (Jun 6, 2010)

:thumbsup:


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

I gotta admit...strong first effort! Its the best (only) way to learn.

Question though...no front brake?

Nice choice on going SS too. That bike will be quick.


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

Thanks Rumpfy! I got that thing new 20 years ago and have had it ever since. I am ashamed to admit that I never did any work on it all the years I rode it, always had the "shop" do it. I was good with that because they let me watch/help and only charged me for parts when needed. After so many years of not riding I said to myself, SELF...you gotta klein in the garage hanging around..bring it back to life. That began the rebirth. 

No front brake for the time being cause I ran out of cash and I only have one cati for some reason.... still looking for the other. After 16 years or so, I have no idea where the other half is. Plans are to ride it as is and continue to modify as $$ permits.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

blasted said:


> Thanks Rumpfy! I got that thing new 20 years ago and have had it ever since. I am ashamed to admit that I never did any work on it all the years I rode it, always had the "shop" do it. I was good with that because they let me watch/help and only charged me for parts when needed. After so many years of not riding I said to myself, SELF...you gotta klein in the garage hanging around..bring it back to life. That began the rebirth.
> 
> No front brake for the time being cause I ran out of cash and I only have one cati for some reason.... still looking for the other. After 16 years or so, I have no idea where the other half is. Plans are to ride it as is and continue to modify as $$ permits.


I'm pretty sure I have a spare canti. I actually have a set of V-brakes front and rear if you want them. They're ghetto...but complete and functional. You can have them.


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

GET OUT!!! :band: :cornut: :ihih: :rockon:


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

blasted said:


> GET OUT!!! :band: :cornut: :ihih: :rockon:


PM me your address and I'll send em' out.


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## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

Do your bike a favor and spring for $6 worth of krylon. Aluminum does corrode you know and shouldn't really be left raw. If you just love the look then at least nevr dull it and clear coat it.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Rumpfy said:


> PM me your address and I'll send em' out.


Then we can have a whole other discussion about how to fit Vees on an internally routed Klein!


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

You guys ROCK!!:thumbsup: 

lucifer, I hate to tell ya but that frame has been nekked for 18 years of its 20 years of being....although, I have had thoughts of powder-coat white, perhaps pearl white??? We shall see....


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

*beer is good*

Thought you all might enjoy this....check it



Now To make one for the other side.

Dam that's messed up I need more beer now for more caps.....hehehehehehe


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## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

blasted said:


> You guys ROCK!!:thumbsup:
> 
> lucifer, I hate to tell ya but that frame has been nekked for 18 years of its 20 years of being....although, I have had thoughts of powder-coat white, perhaps pearl white??? We shall see....


Either it spent a lot of time in the garage or you polish it frequently.


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

I usually hit it with a green scotch brite pad in the spring time just to even it up a bit...that's it.


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

*Long overdue update!!*

I finished riding out last year and some good things have happened since then, check them out and let me know what you think!!

First off,
Momma got a new ride!! It is not done yet but she loves it!! I can't keep her butt off the seat long enough to do anything more to it so she has to deal with it for now. Kindly know as "Frank", short for Frankenstein, it is a Motobecane 15" 29er with some upgrades....weighs in at 23.5 lbs.

Second,
son #1 has himself a new ride as well that he put together and tuned with a bit of supervision. It is a 15" Kona Kilauea weighs in at 25.5 lbs

Third,
son #2 got son #1's hand-me-down, which is a Specialized Hotrock. Son# 2 tuned this bike this spring and is ready to tear it up. No weight cause it is heavy as all snot....

Last, is the Rascal which has a few new bits. First the old Gelflex seat has been recovered in leather.,,,,SO nice!!! It also has a new polished frame and handlebars to boot along with a new 46 tooth front ring. There is a new to the bike XT rear canti, that was missing since day one, now matches the front. More polishing to go but that is for another rainy weekend.
I want to thank you guys again and also to the forum.. I reread my thread here and I got a chuckle out of it cause I really didn't know squat when I started off on this adventure. Now three bikes later I feel pretty good and 15 years in a prototype shop doesn't hurt either...

It took much learning and lots of elbow grease and some patients but now the whole family has bikes that they are proud of and love to ride, they FIT too, that being the most important thing. Thanks again guys and let me know if I we meet on the trail.


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## fattybikejones (Aug 17, 2008)

yo-Nate-y said:


> Or you could paint it silver pearl


I know this is an older thread, but that is one sexy beast! WOW!:thumbsup:


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## wingmanrob (Nov 21, 2010)

fattybikejones said:


> I know this is an older thread, but that is one sexy beast! WOW!:thumbsup:


Quoted for truth! :thumbsup:


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## blasted (May 23, 2010)

Thanks guys! I added a few more pics for ya..... The weather is getting warmer and it is TIME TO RIDE!!! :yesnod:


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## fattybikejones (Aug 17, 2008)

Yeah man! I'd be ridin the hubs off that!!


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## icondaemon (Aug 20, 2015)

Sorry for the late post, but I'm trying to put together a decent gruppo, wheels, h-bar to upgrade my Rascal, too. What component set did you end up with? I'm interested to find out what worked.

Thanks.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

This thread is 5 years old. What are your concerns? What year is yours?


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