# your best WORKDAY FLYER



## redriderbb (Aug 30, 2005)

hey all,

I want to see some bada** workday flyers. Great graphics, layering and wording. Let's see whatcha got.

Ben


----------



## imba_pete (Aug 9, 2005)

*Cairns, Australia*

Nice.


----------



## imba_pete (Aug 9, 2005)

*Boulder, Colorado*

Ok.


----------



## sbaryenbruch (Jan 4, 2004)

*here's ours....*

This one is from two years ago....


----------



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

imba_pete said:


> Nice.


I usually don't take the bait on this stuff, but honestly, as a female, an IMBA member, a local mtb club president and a trailworker, I am really turned off by this. I can't think of a better way to alienate the already small numbers of women involved in mtb advocacy.


----------



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

If I could figure out how to resize a pdf, I'd post our last Trail Care Crew flyer; we have a really good graphics guy.


----------



## th29 (Nov 4, 2004)

formica said:


> If I could figure out how to resize a pdf, I'd post our last Trail Care Crew flyer; we have a really good graphics guy.


Open the flyer in Acrobat.
Use the selection tool to select the area you want.
Selected section is automatically copied to clipboard.
Open a photo editing program and paste as an image file (jpeg, etc.)
Resize the image file, save, and post.


----------



## Megashnauzer (Nov 2, 2005)

do flyers actually help?


----------



## mtb777 (Nov 6, 2005)

Locally we post on our forum and drop flyers at the LBS when we had a marketing guy on the team....a picture is worth a thousand words so they say...when people ask at the counter when a trail will be opened....hand them a flyer. One local park actually has traffic type signs screened with TM info and locates them next to rest spot/picinic benches at various spots along the trails. Guilt is a valid tool!


----------



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

*one of ours*

comment, I think that posting a catchy flyer at a bike shop, trailhead and other places frequented by trail users works... we've gotten quite a few people that way.


----------



## BigJay (Aug 15, 2004)

Here are two i made this season:

1_ TCC Visit in Val-Morin: The most successful IMBA w-e that they had this year with almost 100 people through the w-e!

2_ First Trail day w-e in St-Bruno, Qc on the south shore of Montreal where we made the flow-iest trails around... The club operates trails on a military base... Pretty cool euh? For both w-e we had on average 20 people each days...

We try and publish every trail day on most local MTB websites and most of the time on MTBR as well. We encourage bike shop in the area to print it up and post it on their wall or window... I think it's worth it to put a few hours into a flyer


----------



## UncleTrail (Sep 29, 2007)

I've found free pizza works fairly well... maybe try getting a local business to donate free food for the work day instead of labor?


----------



## BigJay (Aug 15, 2004)

Here's our last one... A bit of a rip off from the last one i posted... but again, with so little time, i have to get these out real quick! So if you have any more to show, don't be shy! I want to get as much posters as possible! It's that time of year so i'll have a couple more to cook up real soon!


----------



## wddamf (Jan 3, 2006)

Referring to the hot chick on the bike above:


> I usually don't take the bait on this stuff, but honestly, as a female, an IMBA member, a local mtb club president and a trailworker, I am really turned off by this. I can't think of a better way to alienate the already small numbers of women involved in mtb advocacy.


Why do some females find stuff like this so offensive? You could put a Chipendales guy on the bike and it wouldn't offend me, an IMBA member, club president, and trail manager. Either way (hot chick or Chipendale's guy), I think it's clever, funny, catchy advertisement. Would the female demographic be less offended if there was a second bike with a shirtless guy on it in the picture? (No sarcasm meant here - these are honest questions.)


----------



## mtb777 (Nov 6, 2005)

Here's a specific one we did and we have a generic for the shops and public


----------



## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

_Why do some females find stuff like this so offensive? You could put a Chipendales guy on the bike and it wouldn't offend me, an IMBA member, club president, and trail manager. Either way (hot chick or Chipendale's guy), I think it's clever, funny, catchy advertisement. Would the female demographic be less offended if there was a second bike with a shirtless guy on it in the picture? (No sarcasm meant here - these are honest questions.)_

It would definitely start to make you nuts if you saw it from a female perspective. Or..... I dunno, let's say that 99% of mtb'ers happened to be gay men. You love the sport and you have no choice all these years but to ride with gay men. In fact, the sport itself has a reputation for being flamboyant and the riders (and others) often assume you're gay as well. You get hit on a lot; other riders tend to check you out; all the literature features hot half-naked guys. Imagine the advertising in your bike mags- Marzocchi for example. All the clothing tends to be a bit loud and colorful, so you just deal with it.

But you ignore it b/c you love the sport and your sexuality has nothing to do with it. So why should you care when the occasional naked-guy-on-bike appears? Often? Or that your buddies frequently discuss the hot guys they've seen in thongs and spandex?

There you go, that's kinda what it's like at times for women in a male-dominated sport. For want of a better analogy. Why not focus on the biking, is there a shortage of hot women to look at??  Personally, it *might* bother me less if there were an equal amount of hot guys featured in mtb ads, but I'd rather just keep it gender-neutral. How else to get more women involved?


----------



## redriderbb (Aug 30, 2005)

*Preverbial "can of worms"*

Okay, lets stay on task. Why doesn't someone take the discussion elsewhere, or use it to make a new flyer with a fat beer gut dude topless on a beater bike and a line like, "trails need maintenance too". Can someone through something like that together. we have a workday flyer that is rad for our "Dirty Thursday" campaign. we have seen as many as 21 folks for two hours on Thursdays after work.


----------



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

That sample is rad: tasteful and on topic. Sex of of actual image aside, it's about mountain biking, I find it humorous because it's a nice counter point to the boobage, irrelevance to trail work and juvenile sexuality of the banana seat girl image.

Hope it's ok I did a print screen save:


----------



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

wddamf said:


> Referring to the hot chick on the bike above:
> 
> Why do some females find stuff like this so offensive? You could put a Chipendales guy on the bike and it wouldn't offend me, an IMBA member, club president, and trail manager. Either way (hot chick or Chipendale's guy), I think it's clever, funny, catchy advertisement. Would the female demographic be less offended if there was a second bike with a shirtless guy on it in the picture? (No sarcasm meant here - these are honest questions.)


Here's why I find that flyer so offensive.

1. the content has zero to do with a mountain bike workday: high heels, boobs falling out of a top, mini skirt and a banana seat, on a sidewalk? WTF? A total disconnect with reality.
2. The image used implies guys with a sausage fest mentality. - focus on T & A, not the job at hand.
3: Most ( not all ) women will find it offputting and juvenile to say the least, offensive on the far end of the spectrum. Women will be some of the best volunteers a club will ever have. You really want to alienate them?

And no, adding some guy to the photo would just be missing the point, not helping.


----------



## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

This is a great thread! So let's keep this on topic and stop the thread hijacking.

I've been looking for ideas on flyers for our trail maintainance days. Keep em coming!

Also, where and when do you post the flyers? I realize there are many obvious answers to this question, but post them anyway.


----------



## Megashnauzer (Nov 2, 2005)

'sausage fest mentality' - that's a great phrase! i sent this thread to our 'inner circle of elders' in hopes of using these ideas to get more volunteers. i hope it work.

btw, it is offensive as a workday flier, but as a joke, it says a lot. i mean, what do we have to do to get people out to the trails? provide strippers?


----------



## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

_You could put a Chipendales guy on the bike and it wouldn't offend me, an IMBA member, club president, and trail manager. _

_I've been looking for ideas on flyers for our trail maintainance days. Keep em coming!_

Awesome. I'd love to see some flyers that would appeal to the female demographic, esp. since it's so difficult to entice women to try the sport.

I mean, how many threads have we seen about guys spending serious coin on their S.O.'s bike, hopelessly trying to convince them to get into it? It's clearly a prevalent problem and one that the guys are desperate to solve. Maybe we DO need to start an aggressive campaign using Chippendales on the flyers. Makes perfect sense.


----------



## markf (Jan 17, 2007)

the best way i've ever seen to get a woman to mountain bike, is to find other women that ride and get them to take her. going with hubby/boyfriend (at least at first) is often a losing battle and the man cannot hope to win.


----------



## wddamf (Jan 3, 2006)

I think I get your point, but your analogy is a bit off - in your analogy, I’m being hit on my the same sex - which is indeed unwelcome. But if you and I were to switch roles and I were in a female-dominated sport, I'd LOVE the attention! 

I understand that it gets old having to deal with un-enjoyable "stuff" that comes along with something you enjoy. I guess my point is why should the majority be expected (sometimes demanded) to "reform" for the want of a minority. If I were to become a competitive "shalsbor" (fictitious female dominated sport) player, I personally would not expect all the "shalsbor" players to stop discussing their female oriented experiences in the locker room. Nor would I expect the "shalsbor" magazines to stop running adds for female oriented products that I might find "uninteresting" - or showing adds with half naked men. It's part of the territory. I’d either deal with it or find something else to do. 

In fact, I stopped racing cars (something I dearly love) years ago because I found the people in the sport to be a bit "crude" and I didn't enjoy hanging around with them. I didn't go on a crusade to try to "refine" the sport - I found something else to do. I find certain television shows offensive - I don't watch them. I find certain organizations immoral and offensive - I don't support them. 

And I just thumbed through my latest copy of Mountain Bike Action (only bike mag I get) and found ZERO hot chicks - saw one add with spandex clad stud-boys though. So I question whether women are really being all that bombarded by “sexist” stuff - hell yeah it exists - but is it REALLY that bad? Or are women being overly sensitive to every little example. Yes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease - and yes, “reform”’ has to start somewhere. BUT, I repeat, should the majority really be expected to “reform” for the want of a minority (unless the majority is committing a crime)? 

If the original hot chick on the bike were naked, I’d agree that it would be improper and offensive in an open forum. She was pretty well covered up and I disagree that the political correctness hammer was dropped over it.


----------



## wddamf (Jan 3, 2006)

Folks, all the marketing in the world AIN'T gonna make people either like or dislike mountain bike riding - it's uncomforable, hot / cold, dirty, injury-prone WORK - you either love it or you don't. 

A flyer's content doesn't have to have ANYTHING to do with the message - all it HAS to be is attention grabbing. Most MTB'ers are men. I'll let you in on a secret - ALL (straight) men do indeed have a sausage fest mentality and focus on T & A 24/7!!! Seems to me marketing guidelines would indicate that the hot chick flyer will deliver the most bang for the buck!

And hell yeah, females are indeed some of the most productive club members. I just don't see it as offensive - not enough to make it a P.C. issue.

And this “can of worms” / “thread hijack” is pertinent to the exchange of ideas around what makes a good and proper flyer - so I find those comments offensive


----------



## choicearizona (May 11, 2008)

if women represent a small minority of the members it may be wise to take a little prudence in the threads/posts. yeah, we're guys being guys but sometimes a lid needs placed on the jokes. thanks.


----------



## gabrielle (Jan 2, 2005)

wddamf said:


> I think I get your point, but your analogy is a bit off - in your analogy, I'm being hit on my the same sex - which is indeed unwelcome. But if you and I were to switch roles and I were in a female-dominated sport, I'd LOVE the attention!


Nope, her analogy is spot-on. She was attempting to define unwelcome attention, which she did, as you say.  It's unwelcome attention, no matter where it comes from. Turning the analogy around so it suits you = straw man.



wddamf said:


> So I question whether women are really being all that bombarded by "sexist" stuff - hell yeah it exists - but is it REALLY that bad? Or are women being overly sensitive to every little example.


Go back & read Christine's post again, and really use your imagination this time. Yes, it is that pervasive. (This has been a pretty hard lesson for me to learn, myself, because I tend to have a higher-than-average tolerance for crassness, apparently. Don't worry that you're not "getting it" right away.)

You said in your earlier post you were asking an honest question. Hope this cleared some of that up for you.

gabrielle


----------



## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

wddamf said:


> And this "can of worms" / "thread hijack" is pertinent to the exchange of ideas around what makes a good and proper flyer - so I find those comments offensive


This thread is about sharing ideas on Trail Work flyers, not about advertising within the MTB world that is offensive to women. Please take this discussion to a new thread because it is derailing the whole point of this thread.


----------



## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

Indeed, women are in the minority, and therefore don't need to feel further ostracized by yet another "men's club" group mentality. 

Encouraging women to ride = getting more women to ride with them. How do you expect more women to ride in the first place when this kind of image appears yet *again*, and not even in a big glossy magazine?

My gay-rider analogy was accurate b/c while hetero female bikers do enjoy looking at hot men, we don't lust after ALL men simply b/c they're men in our general vicinity. Just as horny hetero guys are desperate for sex but not SO desperate that they'd sleep with any willing guy. We're not opportunists like that. Nor would a hetero guy be while in a gay group. Feels the same to us.

Anyway, this is topical as it's feedback about the flyer. You did ask for it.


----------



## wddamf (Jan 3, 2006)

> This thread is about sharing ideas on Trail Work flyers, not about advertising within the MTB world that is offensive to women. Please take this discussion to a new thread because *it is derailing the whole point of this thread*.


No it's not. It's quite pertinent to what works and what doesn't. I think a hot chick works and other posters here disagree - discussion as to what works and what doesn't.



> if women represent a small minority of the members it may be wise to take a little prudence in the threads/posts


I'm not joking, trying to be insulting, or trying to be an arse. I understand this is a touchy topic and am simply discussing the thoughts behind it.



> It's unwelcome attention, no matter where it comes from. Turning the analogy around so it suits you = straw man.


I wasn't turning anything around to suit my argument - a staight female in a male-dominated sport is not exactly equivalent to a straight male in a gay-male dominated sport. But I DO get the point of unwanted attention.



> My gay-rider analogy was accurate b/c while hetero female bikers do enjoy looking at hot men, we don't lust after ALL men simply b/c they're men in our general vicinity. Just as horny hetero guys are desperate for sex but not SO desperate that they'd sleep with any willing guy. We're not opportunists like that. Nor would a hetero guy be while in a gay group. Feels the same to us.


You lost me on that one! If the point is that you are on the receiving end of unwanted attention, I get it.

The ironic thing is that I have always made it a point to behave as a true gentleman around females. I still believe in chivalry, I don't curse around females, I open doors for females, I don't crassly hit on females, I've corrected other guys who were acting inappropriately in the presence of females, etc. Me and my riding buddies go out of our way to make SURE female riders are made to feel welcome and part of the group. There are plenty of female riders around here and we're all friends - good enough friends that they'd let us know if quick order if we were out of line! I just don't see alot of "sexism" in my little part of the biking world. Maybe it's cause I live in "the South" where we are taught to treat females like ladies - who knows. Hence when I hear a female complain about being offended by a hot chick on a poster, it seems like over-reacting to me. If your opposition to the hot chick flyer is just perpetuation of "political correctness", then I still ask, "is it really THAT big of an issue"? If you ladies really are being bombarded by inappropriate behavior, then your point is taken and I'm sorry you have to deal with that.

Thanks for the intelligent discussion! :thumbsup:


----------



## Toff (Sep 11, 2004)

Well, the only flyer on this thread I actually read was the one with the T&A, its effective in catching my eye.


----------



## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

_ I still ask, "is it really THAT big of an issue"? If you ladies really are being bombarded by inappropriate behavior, then your point is taken and I'm sorry you have to deal with that._

Of course not, and I apologize for making it sound that way. It's true that my riding buddies are the best, and riders in general are totally cool. I'm thinking back to my total newbie days when I didn't know anybody at all, before the internet, and feeling shut out. In trying to explain my analogy it came out sounding exaggerated.

And it's not like women have no sense of humor about these things; it's just exasperating how much we have to put up with it.


----------



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

wddamf said:


> No it's not. It's quite pertinent to what works and what doesn't. I think a hot chick works and other posters here disagree - discussion as to what works and what doesn't.
> <snippage>
> If your opposition to the hot chick flyer is just perpetuation of "political correctness", then I still ask, "is it really THAT big of an issue"?
> 
> Thanks for the intelligent discussion! :thumbsup:


I hung up my PC hat a long time ago. For me, it's more like "jeez do you guys have T & A on _everything?_ ( remember that mtb culture is heavily male influenced)


----------



## Francis Buxton (Apr 2, 2004)

I'm about to say something that the ladies probably don't want to hear, but it's a little bit of devil's advocate, and I tend to be a tell-it-like-it-is kinda guy anyway, so here goes. Preface my comment with the fact that I am an experienced trail worker, trail advocate and trail steward. I've been an officer in the local club and president of the local trail building/advocacy organization. We've never had anything remotely sexual on our flyers, we have an "Earthgirls" ride (Earthriders is the club) led by and for women only, and our trail work logo was designed by a very talented local FEMALE artist/mountain biker/trail worker. I'm happily married and friends with a good number of the women in the club and I think they'll all tell you I'm anything but sexist. I am, however, an engineer, so I have a distinct ability to look at a situation with zero emotion.

I'd say that about 90% of the participants in mountain biking are men, give or take, say 10%. We're not really talking about growing the sport here, we're talking about getting trails built, so most of the people at a trail work event are already "in the sport", they are simply now "getting involved". In general, aren't men physically stronger, and hence, about to get more physical work done? (Notice the "IN GENERAL"). If you want to reach the largest proportion of your sport to come build trail, the aforementioned "Gratuitous T&A" poster is the most effective. It grabs the eye of the "key" demographic and is probably one of the most effective workday posters out there.

Personally, I thought it was funny. Very tongue-in-cheek play on the word 'maintenance', and it caught my eye and made me read the content (what there was). It is fairly politically incorrect, but I start to find that refreshing in our current vanilla world where you have to worry about offending everyone. I'm willing to bet that for every woman it turned off, it brought in 3 men, so it served its purpose. I probably wouldn't have used it, but I definitely wouldn't have thought of it


----------



## wddamf (Jan 3, 2006)

Christine, I think you have a good point - what is considered socially acceptable behavior has improved over the years - it probably was much worse for a female in our sport then compared to now. I'm just on a personal crusade to get folks to "lighten up" - I think society is wound a bit too tight these days (pendulum effect, maybe?).



> For me, it's more like "jeez do you guys have T & A on everything?


Understood. Yeah, we'd LOVE to have T&A on everything! But I think most of us understand that just isn't cool and (in my perception) we've toned it down. I'm just asking that we be allowed to have it on "a few" things without someone expressing that they are offended.


----------



## tflounder (May 12, 2008)

Here's our poster for rebuilding a local park. Sorry no T&A because it is a county sponsored event. :nono:


----------



## CHUNKY NUGGET (Jan 23, 2005)

Well that was a ride! I think this was all just personal opinions, it isnt a sexist male against female thing. Its a couple of chicks upset over something trivial.
Keep in mind these chicks arent speaking for all the females out there. I know plenty of chicks that wouldnt give a sh1t about that "offensive poster". Personally i wish it was more perverted, stop discriminating against my pervertedness!!
I get discriminated against every day for all sorts of reasons. People will have there opinions, its just how it is.
I hate goody two shoes attitudes, soon we wont be able to fart! Oops how offensive


----------



## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

IMO, the "chicks who love" that sort of thing are just trying to fit in. And it's true, I'm not saying the flyer isn't cute in its own way, but it's TEDIOUS having T&A on everything. 

I wouldn't mind so much if the flyers also included hot men; but somehow that's "different." Women do show up to work parties when they feel they can make a difference, you know. Just give us equal time is all I'm sayin', and let's see how those "chicks" would respond to a hot male on a flyer for a change. Give them options! They're not necessarily lesbians I'm sure.

For the record, I'm not some buttoned-up church lady; just remember how much it sucked when I was trying to get involved in the sport many years ago.


----------



## CHUNKY NUGGET (Jan 23, 2005)

"IMO, the "chicks who love" that sort of thing are just trying to fit in". Na they just fit it in! You really shouldnt expect us guys to change for you, face the facts men and women are two different breads, toughen up and take it on the chin. 
Everyone is discriminated on for something, is it healthy to dwell on it? NO


----------



## marsh rider (May 18, 2008)

Ok, so we all can agree that some women find flyers like these offensive, but the guys will always love them anyways. I just got back this morning from a trail maintenance day. There were three other middle-aged men and two of their young daughters. I _really_ don't think that a sexy girl poster would have appealed to them. 
I suppose the type of trail you are trying to maintain would also determine what you could get away with. For instance, downhill and other extreme paths you could probably post sexy flyers a little more safely than you could for all-mountain and cross-country ( yeah, I know that's sexist, but it's _generally_ true.)

Now, how about flyer ideas which will offend no one? How about placing two pictures side by side- a before and after shot of a beautiful trail from a previous work day? And of maybe toss in a picture of a sexy new bike.

*sorry I if pissed anyone off


----------



## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

_You really shouldnt expect us guys to change for you_

Oh, yeah you're right, I shoulda known better 

Like mentioned above, sometimes it's a good way for families to spend time together. Since when is trail maintenance an old boys' club?


----------



## CHUNKY NUGGET (Jan 23, 2005)

Christine said:


> _You really shouldnt expect us guys to change for you_
> 
> Oh, yeah you're right, I shoulda known better
> 
> Like mentioned above, sometimes it's a good way for families to spend time together. Since when is trail maintenance an old boys' club?


Yeh and we should hide our children from any type of anything with any slight and insignificant content related to sex. If my children reacted to that "flyer in question" in any way id say chill out coz its no big deal and they'd learn that it is no big deal and wouldnt be affected by it. And probably go to the build/maintenance day unaffected.
What about TV, movies, advertisments, culture, womens magazines bla bla the list goes on. Do you think families and children should be sheltered from that too? 
When it comes to that flyer i think people see what they wanna see and me personally i dont see anything sexist, immoral or perverted in it.


----------



## marsh rider (May 18, 2008)

Just because somethings become part of society doesn't always make it fine for everyone. For instance, no matter how many times those male enhancements ads run on tv, it's still awkward watching them with my dad. I think the women on here represent the average female mountain biker, and none of them seem to be accepting of this ad. Actually, I'd think the women serious enough about mountain biking to even be active on the mtbr forums would be the most accepting of the ad, as they are more accustomed to the sport and the male dominance of it.


----------



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

> I'd think the women serious enough about mountain biking to even be active on the mtbr forums would be the most accepting of the ad, as they are more accustomed to the sport and the male dominance of it.


Actually, I think you are way off base there. Sure we are accustomed to the sport and the male dominance of the media portrayals, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it. Put up with it, yes, but accept it? Nah.


----------



## marsh rider (May 18, 2008)

Right, that was my point. If the women on here are accustomed to it but don't accept it, then the average or beginner biker would be even more unaccustomed and unaccepting of it.


----------



## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Anyone got some new trail flyers from this season they wish to share?


----------



## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

*My latest*

Feel free to use and modify...


----------

