# James’s 2007 LED Light Review Now Up!!



## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

James has already mentioned it in another thread, but I feel it definitely deserves its own thread!

I have only just started wading my way through it, but I would just like to thank James for the huge amount of work that he has put into this years and previous years reviews. It's very much appreciated by many. 

The review can be found *here* for those who haven't seen it yet. :thumbsup:

Thanks again James!


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## Tinier (Apr 13, 2006)

Thanks for the link, Low_Rider. And good work James!

Those lights make my Dinotte Ultra 5 look terribly weak...sigh, time to start saving up for the Dinotte 500L. :cryin: 

I wonder why more bike light companies aren't launching powerful LED lights for helmets that are self-contained? (without wires) I would love a CREE version of the princeton tec EOS, or maybe even a rechargeable lithium version that drives it at higher brightness levels.


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## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2004)

Tinier said:


> Thanks for the link, Low_Rider. And good work James!
> 
> Those lights make my Dinotte Ultra 5 look terribly weak...sigh, time to start saving up for the Dinotte 500L. :cryin:
> 
> I wonder why more bike light companies aren't launching powerful LED lights for helmets that are self-contained? (without wires) I would love a CREE version of the princeton tec EOS, or maybe even a rechargeable lithium version that drives it at higher brightness levels.


Thanks!

I'd be very surprised if there wasn't at least one light in the works for 2008 that's self contained and uses a brighter LED. _Someone_ has to be doing that.


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## GMF (Jan 10, 2004)

James,

Would you mind telling us what your current light setup is?


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## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2004)

GMF said:


> James,
> 
> Would you mind telling us what your current light setup is?


Right now, on my bike I am using the 500L. Yesterday I was running the DiNotte 5W with a small Li-Ion battery -- I didn't need as much light or the longer run time so I opted for the lighter weight. Last week, I alternated the Wilma and Triple Shot Pro, Nite Hawk K2... I've been swapping them around quite a bit since I've had to use them all on road and off in various lighting conditions and weather.

Unless I am reviewing them, I usually don't use a helmet light unless I'm doing technical riding, which at this time of year is hit or miss. That's one of the reasons I liked the Joystick so much -- no wires, no weight.

What I _haven't_ used for a while is my HID.


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## GMF (Jan 10, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> What I _haven't_ used for a while is my HID.


Just because the LED stuff is new/fun/cool or because you think it actually performs better?


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## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2004)

GMF said:


> Just because the LED stuff is new/fun/cool or because you think it actually performs better?


I prefer the ability to dim the LED lights. I like to use a flashing mode when riding in traffic in rain and fog -- but in daylight hours. I also like the fact that I can turn them off and on without worrying about reducing the life of the bulb. And, _of course_, because it is new/fun/cool .


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## jaseh (Nov 14, 2006)

great stuff, I have been looking for some real info on the Princeton Tec's before i committed to stocking them.
thanks


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## Tinier (Apr 13, 2006)

James,
Any idea how much the 500L will cost? It's not even listed on Dinotte's website yet. 

I think with the launch of this light, maybe the Ultra 5 would be cheaper on the resale market. I'll probably buy one more to accompany my current one, should be sufficient for the trails I'm riding anyway.


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## rideandshoot (Dec 18, 2006)

*Why LED*



GMF said:


> Just because the LED stuff is new/fun/cool or because you think it actually performs better?


I had an HID light. Dropped it once while mounting it on my bar and the element broke.  When I'm spending over $100 to do a 24 hour race I have to have better durability than that.


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## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2004)

Tinier said:


> James,
> Any idea how much the 500L will cost? It's not even listed on Dinotte's website yet.
> 
> I think with the launch of this light, maybe the Ultra 5 would be cheaper on the resale market. I'll probably buy one more to accompany my current one, should be sufficient for the trails I'm riding anyway.


$495 with two batteries.


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## Y-Wrench (Jan 9, 2007)

The Princeton Tec definiltely is looking like nice and even lighting, and a strong value.
The category of self contained lights, while impressive in output (especially the exposure turbo and BR) seems like they could benefit from a next generation in battery technology still. The lighting pattern of those two (eposure, BR) is shocking for a two led setup. Doesn't seem to be any reason we can't some good optics worked out for a traditional battery pack light. That's what I gleaned from this reveiw is that you're not really paying for horsepower, but optic quality and usefullness of light output. Some great looking choices, and given current LED technology, there will be plenty more in this market in the near future.:thumbsup: 

Thanks for all the work, since most of us don't get to play around with several different lights for evaluation.


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## Tinier (Apr 13, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> $495 with two batteries.


*Gulp*. Oh yes, I remember you stated the price somewhere before. Sorry I've forgotten about it. I guess I better try making my own 3x Cree LED bike light too..


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

Wowwwwwww, excellent job!!!!!!!! now I see that my DIY light are very bad in comparison with this I take notes from my next DIY light  

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

Nice job James!

OK, now package up the lights and send them up to me, I'll make some beam profile measurements and stick them in a integrating sphere with a chromatic analyzer and get some real lumen & spectrum data. Oh, and I'll keep them for a while and trail test them too....


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## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2004)

itsdoable said:


> Nice job James!
> 
> OK, now package up the lights and send them up to me, I'll make some beam profile measurements and stick them in a integrating sphere with a chromatic analyzer and get some real lumen & spectrum data. Oh, and I'll keep them for a while and trail test them too....




You know, you'd think that a large-ish state University known for it's engineering programs would be able to do these measurements. I contacted them and got the run around. "Sure," they said, "we've got an integrating sphere, but it won't do what you are looking for." So, long story short, I tried to include that data as well, but it just didn't work out.


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Excellent work James! 
Thanks.


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

Tom, you lucky bugger! I think any light head would love to spend a few minutes with an integrating sphere, I assume it’s through your work?! :thumbsup:

I should find out if my local University has one, I highly doubt it somehow, and even if they did I’d have very little chance of being let loose with one!  

Dave.


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## JohnnyM (Jan 9, 2007)

James,

brilliant review. Any chance you could reprise the chart with a column for battery capacity? That way, we'd see which lights are the most efficient. For instance, the Lupine Wilma has a longer battery life than the Dinotte 500L, but with four K2 emitters, I'd guess the battery must be larger. Another minor point: one of the lights uses Li-Po batteries. How many charge cycles can these stand? I heard that it isn't as many as a standard Li-ion pack.

Looking forward to the new Philips/Lumileds emitter. Which raises another question: how many of the current lights are upgradeable? the only manufacturer I know who claims that upgrades will happen for real is Lupine.

Best regards,

JohnnyM.


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## frank418 (Aug 24, 2006)

*500l*

does anyone have pictures on the 500L ?


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## JohnnyM (Jan 9, 2007)

Frank,
check out James Sharp's Lactic Acid Threshold blog - he has a pic of a prototype 500L, which he called the big green light - you'll see why. 
JM


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## JohnnyM (Jan 9, 2007)

Frank,
check out James Sharp's Lactic Acid Threshold blog - he has a pic of a prototype 500L, which he called the big green light - you'll see why. 
JM


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## scarch (Dec 19, 2006)

Great resource! LEDs are quickly coming of age. Last night I used a rubber band to strap a Fenix P1D-CE to my Nite Hawk K2's bar mount. The result is a 45 gram (counting the battery and light but not the mount and rubber band) light putting out 70 lumens for ~ 2.5 hours or 135 lumens for ~1 hour in a very useful mix of bright center with good spill. Yes, that's about 1/10th the weight of the tested lights, and the P1D-CE runs only about $70 instead of hundreds.

The Fenix on the bar and the K2 on my helmet made a pretty good pair. Need more than 1 or 2.5 hours runtime? Use RCR123 rechargeables and toss a couple extra in your pocket. They are very small, and neglible weight.

It's cool to see LEDs evolve. I will be keeping an eye on the light/small end of the market instead of the 500 lumen HID-busting end. My night rides are casual ones for fun and fitness over well-known trails. No need for the brightest solution.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

Low_Rider said:


> Tom, you lucky bugger! I think any light head would love to spend a few minutes with an integrating sphere, I assume it's through your work?! ... Dave.


Yes, we have an optics lab with integrating spheres & spectrum analyzers @work. Oddly enough, I don't stick my bike lights on them. Lumens and spectrum is a nice measurable quantity, but they don't really relate well to how a light performs on a trail. Since our group night rides a lot, there is nothing better than a trail test to let you know if a unit is sufficient for single track, double track, fast downhills, rock gardens, bar mount or helmet mount, etc... and how it behaves when you are solo, or in a group of 10 all with dual HID's. If it performs well out there, I don't have a huge need to find out if it emits a few more lumens than another unit.

However, if James wants to come up and measure them, I happily run the equipment - as long as he lets me try them on trails!


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

It’s like the horsepower analogy, it’s all very well to have heaps of horsepower, but you still need to be able to put it to the ground to be of any use.

Certainly an integrating sphere would be much more useful for measuring and comparing bare emitters / optics / reflectors and lenses, rather then complete lights.


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## batvette (Dec 10, 2006)

Low_Rider said:


> It's like the horsepower analogy, it's all very well to have heaps of horsepower, but you still need to be able to put it to the ground to be of any use.
> 
> Certainly an integrating sphere would be much more useful for measuring and comparing bare emitters / optics / reflectors and lenses, rather then complete lights.


Horsepower's great for bragging at the burger stand, torque is what gives you "point and squirt" speed on the street.

Mainly because horsepower tends to be peaky, in narrow ranges of the powerband, while torque is more broadly distributed. Those chasing mere horsepower gains end up adding a few ponies at the top of the RPM clock and losing torque across the whole lower end, and unless they are bracket racing at a strip they rarely rev that high anyway.

But then you knew that.

Did you see the "piston light" at candlepower forums B/S/T modified and custom forum?

A bit pricey for a DIY but sure was purdy...


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

I assume you're talking about *ktronik's* triple emitter light?

He posted about it here on MTBR a while back, but the thread didn't really take off. It's definitely been interesting following his thread on CPF, he's doing a great job as it is not easy designing a light to cope with multiple drivers, emitters, optics and reflectors. He's come up with some clever solutions, but his design is starting to become quite a complex light!

I don't envy his machining and material costs either, even with someone doing the work at "mates rates" it isn't a cheap exercise, particularly in terms of prototyping. I understand ktronik is selling these at cost which is good of him. I will be interested to see the end result; it looks like he's close to finishing now. 

For those who are interested, James mentions *here* in his Blog how he does the runtime vs. intensity graphs. Most of the lights on test seem well regulated and reasonably behaved, although the Exposure Enduro Turbo certainly gives a final kick at the end of its burn time before calling it quits! 

Dave.


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## Panter (Nov 13, 2006)

*Fenix L1D-CE and L2D-CE*



scarch said:


> Great resource! LEDs are quickly coming of age. Last night I used a rubber band to strap a Fenix P1D-CE to my Nite Hawk K2's bar mount. The result is a 45 gram (counting the battery and light but not the mount and rubber band) light putting out 70 lumens for ~ 2.5 hours or 135 lumens for ~1 hour in a very useful mix of bright center with good spill. Yes, that's about 1/10th the weight of the tested lights, and the P1D-CE runs only about $70 instead of hundreds.
> 
> The Fenix on the bar and the K2 on my helmet made a pretty good pair. Need more than 1 or 2.5 hours runtime? Use RCR123 rechargeables and toss a couple extra in your pocket. They are very small, and neglible weight.
> 
> It's cool to see LEDs evolve. I will be keeping an eye on the light/small end of the market instead of the 500 lumen HID-busting end. My night rides are casual ones for fun and fitness over well-known trails. No need for the brightest solution.


Yes Fenix lights are great and I think they can replace about all single LED lights, but sometimes you need more lumen. Anyhow, I am just getting a Fenix L1D-CE light for myself. I think it has many advantages over the P1D-CE
Uses standard AA battery instead of expensive CR123A 
Can run on Alkaline, Ni-MH, Lithium battery
The best Lithium AA cell has more than two times the capacity of the best Lithium CR123A.

I have not used this light before, but I will get a few in late Feb. early Mar., I can get up to ten and I need only 2, so if anyone is interested just shoot me a mail.


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## DOJO (Jul 30, 2005)

THank you very much for al lthe information i like the information that you gave and very nice done review. 
I'm in the market for a new light so this review helped me in choicingthe light. Before i wanted the Light & Motion HID ultra but at $500 it would hit my pocket very hard. Then saw PRINCETON TEC and liked the and the price was better plus they give you so much extra stuff.

thank again


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## Captain Kana (Jan 13, 2004)

scarch said:


> Great resource! LEDs are quickly coming of age. Last night I used a rubber band to strap a Fenix P1D-CE to my Nite Hawk K2's bar mount. The result is a 45 gram (counting the battery and light but not the mount and rubber band) light putting out 70 lumens for ~ 2.5 hours or 135 lumens for ~1 hour.


I bought the Fenix P1D-CE to check it out. It is great. I have not ridden with it yet, but will tonight. I currently have the Dinotte 5W and Cayeye Tripleshot.

Dan C.


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## Tinier (Apr 13, 2006)

Captain Kana said:


> I bought the Fenix P1D-CE to check it out. It is great. I have not ridden with it yet, but will tonight. I currently have the Dinotte 5W and Cayeye Tripleshot.
> 
> Dan C.


I have the P1D, P1D-CE and L2D. Fenix makes great lights. With the L2D, I managed to pull 2hours 18mins of regulated light from 2 x 2700mah Sanyo AA rechargeables before it starts to dim noticeably. I managed to cobble a light holder out of some unused rear blinker mounts, perhaps I'll take a pic of it when I'm free. The L2D's spot beam will be used to complement my Dinotte 5W's flood.


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## tjl5709 (Mar 23, 2006)

James, your efforts are very much appreciated.:thumbsup: I had been searching for awhile on getting a helmet light to supplement the HID. The timing on your review aloud me to get a present for the GF as well. Based on your comments I ended up with the Princton tec SB 2. Great little light, and they package everything you need.

One thing I would suggest is putting something in the pictures to show the relative size. When I openned the box, I was amazed at how small the light actually was.


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## BeerCan (Aug 29, 2006)

Tinier said:


> I have the P1D, P1D-CE and L2D. Fenix makes great lights. With the L2D, I managed to pull 2hours 18mins of regulated light from 2 x 2700mah Sanyo AA rechargeables before it starts to dim noticeably. I managed to cobble a light holder out of some unused rear blinker mounts, perhaps I'll take a pic of it when I'm free. The L2D's spot beam will be used to complement my Dinotte 5W's flood.


Would using lithium batteries get you a longer run time? Normally I would use nimh but in certain circumstances (race etc) longer run time would be desirable.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

Tinier said:


> I have the P1D, P1D-CE and L2D. Fenix makes great lights. With the L2D, I managed to pull 2hours 18mins of regulated light from 2 x 2700mah Sanyo AA rechargeables before it starts to dim noticeably. I managed to cobble a light holder out of some unused rear blinker mounts, perhaps I'll take a pic of it when I'm free. The L2D's spot beam will be used to complement my Dinotte 5W's flood.


I'd be curious to see the mount you made.

I found the Lockblocks Flashlight Holder from TwoFish Unlimited and so far have only found it at lighthound.com. I have one coming, plus a P1D-CE and a CR123 body for my L1T. I'm hoping to use this as an emergency light for bike rides that might keep me out after dark as a "get me home safely" light.

Since my crash, I've had way too much time here and some of you light geeks have gotten me introduced to CPF and I'm becoming a closet flashaholic.


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## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2004)

slocaus said:


> Since my crash, I've had way too much time here and some of you light geeks have gotten me introduced to CPF and I'm becoming a closet flashaholic.


Come out of the closet and *embrace* your flashaholic-ness! There are worse addictions, I am told.


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## ToddN (Feb 2, 2007)

This seemed like the right forum to discuss this. Lupine is introducing an upgrade and new lamp in the LED market. All existing Wilma's (06-07) can soon be upgraded to 750 Lumens! Expect to see this option available in the next several weeks. Lupine will also be releasing a new Wilma kit that will put out 830 lumens! Both of these systems will be available very soon! Check here for further updates:http://gretnabikes.com/default.asp


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## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> This seemed like the right forum to discuss this. Lupine is introducing an upgrade and new lamp in the LED market. All existing Wilma's (06-07) can soon be upgraded to 750 Lumens! Expect to see this option available in the next several weeks. Lupine will also be releasing a new Wilma kit that will put out 830 lumens! Both of these systems will be available very soon! Check here for further updates:http://gretnabikes.com/default.asp


Let me be one of the first to say Buh-Bye to HIDs.


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## scarch (Dec 19, 2006)

Any LED light manufacturer who wants to stay in business will announce higher output shortly. They are either changing to the Crees already mentioned or Seouls. Lumileds has put out press releases about more efficient emitters, but they were not first to market. I expect to see results from Lumileds by year's end. Lupine's announcement, then, was expected. The Dinotte 500L may already use the higher efficiency emitters. BR Lights now lists a C2.1-H on their website in addition to the C2 that has received favorable reviews. The new model is listed at almost twice the output but the same runtime. I wouldn't buy any bike light today that doesn't use the newer more efficient emitters.


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## JohnnyM (Jan 9, 2007)

*How about upgrades...*



scarch said:


> Any LED light manufacturer who wants to stay in business will announce higher output shortly. They are either changing to the Crees already mentioned or Seouls. Lumileds has put out press releases about more efficient emitters, but they were not first to market. I expect to see results from Lumileds by year's end. Lupine's announcement, then, was expected. The Dinotte 500L may already use the higher efficiency emitters. BR Lights now lists a C2.1-H on their website in addition to the C2 that has received favorable reviews. The new model is listed at almost twice the output but the same runtime. I wouldn't buy any bike light today that doesn't use the newer more efficient emitters.


I'd like to think that any LED light manufacturer worth their salt might also offer "drop-in" upgrades. If Lupine have done it, I'm sure others could. Buying LED lights is getting like buying a PC used to be - your new one is redundant after three months. It would be good if earlier adopters (and evangelists for LED lights) are not left by the wayside in the market for brighter, better lights.

Optimistically yours,

JohnnyM.


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## scarch (Dec 19, 2006)

I would be interested in hearing how Lupine makes the switch. They may replace the entire lighthead, saving little except the battery pack. The problem is that high output LED technology is evolving very quickly, there are no standards, and the entire battery/circuit/emitter/lens package has to be designed as a whole. Well…there is some flexibility in the battery, but the circuit/emitter/lens is a tough assembly to make modular and still get best performance.

The key problem is that getting the best performance out of LEDs is a balancing act. As they get more power they warm up. As they warm up their electrical resistance drops, which brings in more power, which makes the resistance drop further. The resulting thermal runaway blows the LED. You want to drive the LED just short of its thermal runaway point. That point is different for every LED that comes off the line, and is affected by many design and use factors. The best drive circuits are complex, including temperature sensors to stop thermal runaway before the emitter is damaged. At this point in the industry a top output exchangeable emitter is not practical. Maybe later! But then, maybe by then we will be close to theoretical maximum efficiencies anyway.

An important side note to all of this is that top performing LED bike lights will not be cheap. The best ones will use hand-picked emitters (each one comes a bit different off the assembly line), sophisticated circuits, efficient reflector designs, and housings that are both tough and draw away heat. There are plenty of corners for volume-based manufacturers to cut. Buyer beware!


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## JohnnyM (Jan 9, 2007)

scarch said:


> I would be interested in hearing how Lupine makes the switch. They may replace the entire lighthead, saving little except the battery pack. The problem is that high output LED technology is evolving very quickly, there are no standards, and the entire battery/circuit/emitter/lens package has to be designed as a whole. Well&#8230;there is some flexibility in the battery, but the circuit/emitter/lens is a tough assembly to make modular and still get best performance.
> 
> The key problem is that getting the best performance out of LEDs is a balancing act. As they get more power they warm up. As they warm up their electrical resistance drops, which brings in more power, which makes the resistance drop further. The resulting thermal runaway blows the LED. You want to drive the LED just short of its thermal runaway point. That point is different for every LED that comes off the line, and is affected by many design and use factors. The best drive circuits are complex, including temperature sensors to stop thermal runaway before the emitter is damaged. At this point in the industry a top output exchangeable emitter is not practical. Maybe later! But then, maybe by then we will be close to theoretical maximum efficiencies anyway.
> 
> An important side note to all of this is that top performing LED bike lights will not be cheap. The best ones will use hand-picked emitters (each one comes a bit different off the assembly line), sophisticated circuits, efficient reflector designs, and housings that are both tough and draw away heat. There are plenty of corners for volume-based manufacturers to cut. Buyer beware!


You're right of course. However, I'd have thought that if manufacturers can produce generic drivers (buck pucks & boost pucks) that can drive, say, Luxeon or Cree emitters, with two or three current-controlled output levels (don't the emitter manufacturers usually quote their light levels relative to 350mA/700mA/1000mA current?), it couldn't be that hard to produce an upgradeable light. It might not be the very brightest, but in a year's time it would be brighter than a non-upgradeable light built at the same time.

To cope with differences in the focussing capabilities of an upgraded emitter, you need a basic standard size (replaceable) optic. Isn't this exactly what the aftermarket (Ledil, Carclo etc.) optic manufacturers are doing? Sure, between them they produce different size optics, but single optic manufacturers produce almost identically sized units for Luxeon IIIs, Crees etc. The guys who are into serious modification of lights (the CPF dudes) seem to have no problem in finessing different emitters, drivers and optics into existing light bodies.

Or am I more wrong than usual?

JM


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## scarch (Dec 19, 2006)

I guess there are some possibilities. The CPF guys often do more than swap out emitters though, and what you're looking for is a simple swap. It could work if the emitters were "intelligent". Manufacturers could agree on a standard plug interface and equip each emitter module with a small/cheap chip to carry the drive preferences of that particular emitter. There is some similarity to the radiation patterns of large junction emitters, so a single reflectlor or lens solution could work. For $20 you could change to a newer and more efficient white emitter, or change to a MUCH more efficient single color emitter for times when white is not needed.

Possible, yes, but will it happen? My guess is that it won't. It would add even more expense to a light type that is already pricey. The efficiency gains will level off soon anyway. The Lupine upgrade option is probably a short term business tactic to encourage customers who know that better LEDs are on the horizon to get off the fence.


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## scarch (Dec 19, 2006)

JM, I stand corrected. I am considering getting a BR Lights C2.1-H, and yesterday e-mailed them a question. Their reply included mention that they are about to add a "Technology Commitment" page to their website. Old lights sent back to them can be retrofitted with newer emitters and optics. I don't know what it would cost, but presumably much less than a complete new light. The light's appearance does seem modular and easy to upgrade. Dave


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## JohnnyM (Jan 9, 2007)

scarch said:


> JM, I stand corrected. I am considering getting a BR Lights C2.1-H, and yesterday e-mailed them a question. Their reply included mention that they are about to add a "Technology Commitment" page to their website. Old lights sent back to them can be retrofitted with newer emitters and optics. I don't know what it would cost, but presumably much less than a complete new light. The light's appearance does seem modular and easy to upgrade. Dave


Actually Dave, rather than an idiotproof "drop in" upgrade, I had in mind exactly what BR lights are doing. Companies with this approach keep their customers, and everyone benefits. For example, much of the cost of the original Dinotte light engines must be in the machining and generic fittings. I feel sure that designing an upgrade (that could be carried out either by them or an electronically literate customer/owner) would increase their sales and popularity. I'd be up for it, for sure: me and the GF have four front and two rear units between us...
John.


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## Stefan Lupine (Aug 23, 2005)

Talking about modular and upgradable lights 

https://www.lupine-lights.com/content/de/technik/images/w5.jpg


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## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2004)

Stefan Lupine said:


> Talking about modular and upgradable lights
> 
> https://www.lupine-lights.com/content/de/technik/images/w5.jpg


I like that. So the upgrade would just be the board. right?

edit: or maybe the board and optics?


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## Stefan Lupine (Aug 23, 2005)

The board + a new lens ( which is needed cause of the differnt LED angle) + tool to open the 4 screws in order to make sure everybody can upgrade his Wilma


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## Tinier (Apr 13, 2006)

Slocaus, sorry for the delay. I kind of missed your post and had been busy this week. Anyway here's my light setup of a Fenix L2D (on a modified blinker mount) and a Dinotte 5W Ultra. The beamshots are as follows; Dinotte 5watt (high), Fenix L2D (turbo), Dinotte (high) + FenixL2D (turbo). The beige coloured wall is approximately 25feet away from the lights. 

You can see how much flood the Dinotte throws vs the spot beam of the Fenix. The Dinotte's beam is also slightly greenish in colour, and has a slight dark centre 'donut'. What you don't see is the spill light of the Fenix which my crappy camera couldn't capture. The spill light isn't as bright as the flood of the Dinotte, but it's alot wider.

I've a friend who is using twin Fenix L2Ds, each one ziptied individually to a cateye EL500 mount. The spill using twin Fenix L2Ds is equivalent to a single Dinotte 5W, with the advantage of much further throw. I might be ditching the Dinotte in future for twin Fenix L2Ds too, unless something else nicer comes along.


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## Tinier (Apr 13, 2006)

I've made a small but important mistake...that is a L2D-CE. It's alot brighter than a regular L2D.


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## horrendo (Mar 7, 2007)

James, are you planning on reviewing the new 830 (!!) lumen Wilma? If so, any idea when?

Thanks for some great info.


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## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2004)

horrendo said:


> James, are you planning on reviewing the new 830 (!!) lumen Wilma? If so, any idea when?
> 
> Thanks for some great info.


Yes.

I should be getting a review sample soon, then it'll take some time to evaluate it. I'll post when I get it, though.


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

It was always going to be a Cree or Seoul Semiconductor emitter, *but it looks like* we can safely say that Seoul emitters are going to be used in the new line of Wilma's.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Nice!

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/index.php?module=see&l=uk&code=612b42e88a2b06cc2d734ae6e04a0a80


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2007)

Tinier said:


> Slocaus, sorry for the delay. I kind of missed your post and had been busy this week. Anyway here's my light setup of a Fenix L2D (on a modified blinker mount) and a Dinotte 5W Ultra. The beamshots are as follows; Dinotte 5watt (high), Fenix L2D (turbo), Dinotte (high) + FenixL2D (turbo). The beige coloured wall is approximately 25feet away from the lights.
> 
> You can see how much flood the Dinotte throws vs the spot beam of the Fenix. The Dinotte's beam is also slightly greenish in colour, and has a slight dark centre 'donut'. What you don't see is the spill light of the Fenix which my crappy camera couldn't capture. The spill light isn't as bright as the flood of the Dinotte, but it's alot wider.
> 
> I've a friend who is using twin Fenix L2Ds, each one ziptied individually to a cateye EL500 mount. The spill using twin Fenix L2Ds is equivalent to a single Dinotte 5W, with the advantage of much further throw. I might be ditching the Dinotte in future for twin Fenix L2Ds too, unless something else nicer comes along.


Hey, thanks for the beam shot of the L2D CE, I've been hoping to spy one on the web! So does your friend running the twin Fenix set up find it adequate for singletrack; if so what type of trails mostly ridden?

Have you gone to the twin setup yet? I would suspect one mounted to a helmet in addition to the bar mount would be an effective setup, but perhaps not enough spill immediately in front of you?

I really like the looks of their product, from light output to runtimes to power source, price seems nice too. It'd be great to get a bright, self-contained light that runs on commonly available batteries.

Thanks...


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