# Help me spec an E bike for my daughter.



## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

I need your collective e-bike expertise speccing my daughter an e-bike.

She is 16, 159cm with some mental and physical disabilities. She doesn't have much strength or dexterity. Her heart/lung capacity is low. 

She tried a mate small Specialize Levo hardtail which was nice and she handled it well. However, she sits down everywhere and starts to get pitched over the front on any bump with the hardtail. So I figured a small FS bike is in order. 
She won't ever hit any features, it's basic riding on walkways and trails. 

So I start looking for a small E fs bike. The specialized E FS baseline is just too expensive. So we looked at the trek range. 
The shop had a fuel EX E, and a Powerfly FS 4 built up. 

The Fuel is nice and light and the doesn't provide too much punch. But I'm worried the range won't be long enough and it might not provide enough assistance. 

The powerfly was heavy, and had nice amounts of power in eco and touring mode. However, in Turbo mode, it had more grunt than my daughter could handle. I asked if you could disable turbo mode, as I worry if she accidentally put it in this mode that she won't lose control. The answer was no. You can't lockout turbo mode. 

I kind of want something in between the powerfly and the fuel. A little bit more grunt than the fuel but not fuel send it Turbo mode of the powerfly. The powerfly has a bosch CX motor. 

Fuel EXe 9.5 | Trek Bikes (NZ) 
Powerfly FS 4 | Trek Bikes (NZ)

What do you guys recommend? What else is out there?


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## dryk1t (7 mo ago)

Check out Cube product line. Stereo Hybrid 120/140/160 range.

Cube have a focus on battery life and build a very good bike in a range of specs.

Can get them with 750wh batteries, absolute epic travel distances and Bosch drive systems are superb.


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## jf45 (Nov 23, 2021)

plummet said:


> The powerfly was heavy, and had nice amounts of power in eco and touring mode. However, in Turbo mode, it had more grunt than my daughter could handle. I asked if you could disable turbo mode, as I worry if she accidentally put it in this mode that she won't lose control. The answer was no. You can't lockout turbo mode.


Not that I pretend to have much clue about this, but perhaps just two quick observations if indeed everything besides the "Turbo-mode" was to your liking on the Powerfly FS:

According to the spec sheet you linked.. assist is cut of at 32km/t in NZ.. while 25km/t everywhere else - perhaps you could make it believe it wasn't in NZ and that would give the turbo-mode less grunt?
Bosch: Customize riding modes <- maybe "Turbo-mode" can't be disabled as the shop states.. but looks like it can be totally redefined to you liking..?


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

I would think the Fuel EXe's range would be enough for a 16 year old, especially one with some physical limitations. If you want to do a long epic ride it has an available range extender battery that fits in the bottle cage.


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## BuzzinHornets (Sep 17, 2005)

Look into bikes with the Bosch Smart System. You can neuter Turbo mode via the app. It can take it all the way down to 10nm. You should be able to dial it right in to her needs. Good luck with the search!


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

The problem I have had with my wife is the weight of the bike. It makes it hard to move around as a smaller person. As you said, you daughter had a hard tail, so you likely know if she can handle that or not. But you may want to look at an SL or similar to try to get a lighter bike?


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

You should be able to get exactly what you need from a knowledgeable dealer as stated above. Another viable option might e DIY where you can design the system to be exactly what you want.


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## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

Maybe the Orbea Rise or Orbea Wild FS? The Rise is a light weight ebike, you can buy an external battery to add range, and can change the power output through an app. The possible downside to the Rise is that it doesn’t have a screen to easily see which mode you’re in, instead it’s a little dongle with lights to indicate the mode. The Wild FS is their full weight ebike, I think you can also get an external battery, and not sure if you can adjust the power output through an app. 

I don’t know if all e-bikes come with a walk mode, but that might be something to pay attention to for your daughter as well. If you’re pushing your bike, you can press and hold the mode select controller and the bike will add power assist to move the bike so that she doesn’t have to push it on her own.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Just about every E-bike gives you the ability to adjust the power output for each mode through an app.

One thing to consider is the upper limit of the motor torque. When my wife was pregnaunt she had a Levo SL (a low torque engine). At the time her knees bouncing off her belly really prevented her from riding with any close to a high cadence and she really suffered from the motor bogging down at low rpm.

If you daughter stuggles to pedal at a cadence north of 60rpm then a low torque motor wouldn't work well. If she doesn't and you want a pregnant lady ridden bike like me know. .


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Ok so it sounds like the sales people didnt know what they were talking about regarding adjusting power outputs. 

Are all lightweight e-bikes driven by cadence power input? My daughter pedals with a slow cadence and not much power input. 

Is there a lightweight model that has similar eco/power modes to the heavy e-bikes? 

My daughter isn't very strong. So a light E-bike would be preferable if we can find one that gives an intermediate amount of power.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Yes. The Forestal Cyon is a very torquey light weight e-bike. At a low 60 rpm cadence for instance the Bafang motor provides 170 watts more assistance than the TQ HP motor.

Here is a power comparison between 3 lightweight motor options.









TQ HPR50 Motor Review


We test the TQ HPR50 motor, compare it to some of its rivals, and check out some early issues being reported. Read on for more.




www.emtbforums.com





You could build a S/ M Cyon to 37#s if you went full weight weenie.

The Forestal bikes use a Bafang powerplant which is unique in several ways: It's fully rebuildable, it's the largest e-bike motor manufacturer in the world (several times over), & it's shown to be very reliable.

I'm likely going with the Forestal Siryon in the Fall but just giving these e-bikes more time to shake out.

Another good option is built a lightweight pedal bike, and add a motor. Many of those things have mad power. Bafang sells dozens of kits on e-bay.

There is a brand that I heavily considered for my wife's Mondraker, called the Revel Propulsion, that would have resulted in a total bike weight of only 36#s. It's nicely integrated for an add on kit. You could convert an old bike possibly?









Mid drive kit — Revel Propulsion Ebike Mid Drive Conversion Kits







www.revelpropulsion.com





Paul will give you Class 1, 2 or 3. Meaning it can be very powerful if desired.

Good Luck!


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## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

I don’t have any ebike experience, so I can’t provide an answer on the cadence question. Rotwild out of Germany and Forestal out of Andorra are a couple other manufacturers that are making light emtbs. Worldwide Cyclery out of California is a Forestal dealer, and they have a good customer support team that might be able to provide input on the cadence question if you reach out to them.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

All the ones I have ridden are based on torque. You don’t need to push the pedal very hard at all to get them to respond.
But the torque low torque limits power at low rpm. A 35nm engine is going to max out at around 220 watts at 60rpm. Now if your daughter is 110lbs that is more than enough, but a 220lb guy isn’t getting that much from that.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

LMN said:


> All the ones I have ridden are based on torque. You don’t need to push the pedal very hard at all to get them to respond.
> But the torque low torque limits power at low rpm. A 35nm engine is going to max out at around 220 watts at 60rpm. Now if your daughter is 110lbs that is more than enough, but a 220lb guy isn’t getting that much from that.



Yeah, she is light around 110. Another look specialized might be worth a look. My initial though was they are too expensive. However aparently you have good control on adjusting the power settings with an app. 

The more I dive into this the more I think a light Ebike I can crank up the power input with less cadence or foot pressure will be the way. If i can find such a bike.

I dont really have the time to research and build a chinese parts build-up.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Nothing to add, except that I applaud your efforts and wish you the very best of luck. Very excited for you and your daughter. Looking forward to the outcome.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Ok, So futher research confirms that I dont want a 85nm 25kg ebike for my daughter. Too heavy and too powerful. 
The xc style 18kg with 35-40 nm are not grunty enough. 

So..... i'm on the search for an in between bike. 

I found Orbea Rise H30 which is 20kg, 60nm Shimano ep8 and 500hw battery. So far that is winning. 
Its got some grunt but isnt as brutal in turbo mode as the 85nm jobs and isnt as heavy. 

What else is in the 60nm, 20kg range


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

Besides the Orbea Rise, look at bikes that have the Fazua Ride60 motor. These are lightweight and have 60nm of torque. Check out the Pivot Shuttle SL.

The TQ HPR50 motor has 50nm of torque. The Trek Fuel EXe uses this motor, and it's starting to show up on some bikes from other manufacturers.

The lightweight mid-power bikes also have smaller batteries. You can probably do 2 to 5 hours on a charge depending on the boost mode used.


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## mtbfree (Aug 20, 2015)

If she is not strong and have some mental and physical disabilities than maybe some road e-stuff would be better? - MTB in general require more strength and bike handling skills than just cruising on paved roads.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

jabrabu said:


> Besides the Orbea Rise, look at bikes that have the Fazua Ride60 motor. These are lightweight and have 60nm of torque. Check out the Pivot Shuttle SL.
> 
> The TQ HPR50 motor has 50nm of torque. The Trek Fuel EXe uses this motor, and it's starting to show up on some bikes from other manufacturers.
> 
> The lightweight mid-power bikes also have smaller batteries. You can probably do 2 to 5 hours on a charge depending on the boost mode used.


I've tried the fuel ex e, ite nice and I am a carbon slut. But it requires too much pedal input to get the power out and in worried that the battery will be too small. I like the 500wh battery of the rise. I'll check out the pivot. But they are typically expensive af in nz.



mtbfree said:


> If she is not strong and have some mental and physical disabilities than maybe some road e-stuff would be better? - MTB in general require more strength and bike handling skills than just cruising on paved roads.


I want something with a big of suspension for her as she sits down everywhere. Plus does do green mtb trails with us.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

if it were me, I'd likely build a diy ebike out of a tsdz2 drivetrain, and a 6-8 or 10ah 48v battery. There is a lot to learn about retrofitting a bike for ebike usage, but unless she is a serious rider, there isn't a ton of point to dropping significant money on a bike if she's going to be riding passively. Regarding the point about her riding features sitting down, that is likely something that she's going to do no matter the rig and having full suspension won't stop her from getting bucked forward. Technique, and it's knock on effect in confidence and the riding experience doesn't change with different technology. 

I say this as someone whom was in a similar situation teaching my wife to ride. Eventually, I got her an orbea rise as her progression was getting hampered by anxiety triggered from super high heart rate. The addition of the rise has given her more confidence, but it hasn't changed the way her lizard brain tells her to sit and back away from the danger once her fight/flight is triggered. that is something that takes rep, confidence and progression that will (or wont) come with time.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

minimusprime said:


> if it were me, I'd likely build a diy ebike out of a tsdz2 drivetrain, and a 6-8 or 10ah 48v battery. There is a lot to learn about retrofitting a bike for ebike usage, but unless she is a serious rider, there isn't a ton of point to dropping significant money on a bike if she's going to be riding passively. Regarding the point about her riding features sitting down, that is likely something that she's going to do no matter the rig and having full suspension won't stop her from getting bucked forward. Technique, and it's knock on effect in confidence and the riding experience doesn't change with different technology.
> 
> I say this as someone whom was in a similar situation teaching my wife to ride. Eventually, I got her an orbea rise as her progression was getting hampered by anxiety triggered from super high heart rate. The addition of the rise has given her more confidence, but it hasn't changed the way her lizard brain tells her to sit and back away from the danger once her fight/flight is triggered. that is something that takes rep, confidence and progression that will (or wont) come with time.


I dont think I cam be arsed diving into the build up an ebike rabbit hole. I'm a bit tapped. I also want light weight as well because she is not very strong. 

It's not about progression. Its about giving her some mobility and independence. Plus going on family rides where she can keep up... and blow us away up the hills will be even cooler.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Well, the testing is in and the winner is the Orbea Rise. Its light weight with a reasonable battery at 500wh and the is just what the doctor ordered for power output. Its not so brutal that my daughter will be over powered by it and provides ggod assistance with her low cadence style of pedalling.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

One happy Girl.


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## AEyogi (Nov 19, 2021)

That smile of joy... Who is cutting onions in here?


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Moosedriver said:


> Maybe the Orbea Rise or Orbea Wild FS? The Rise is a light weight ebike, you can buy an external battery to add range, and can change the power output through an app. The possible downside to the Rise is that it doesn’t have a screen to easily see which mode you’re in, instead it’s a little dongle with lights to indicate the mode. The Wild FS is their full weight ebike, I think you can also get an external battery, and not sure if you can adjust the power output through an app.
> 
> I don’t know if all e-bikes come with a walk mode, but that might be something to pay attention to for your daughter as well. If you’re pushing your bike, you can press and hold the mode select controller and the bike will add power assist to move the bike so that she doesn’t have to push it on her own.


The entry level Rise come with the E7000 display. My H30 did.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

A few rides in and my daughter is ripping on the rise. She Is having so much fun. Such an awesome bit of kit. I'm glad we sprung for the extra cash for this bike.

Never before have I been able to ride with her at any descent speed. Now I can pedal as fast as I can muster and she is right there riding beside me with a big grin on her face.


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