# Bontrager Re-Paint Questions



## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

I'm planning to have my Bontrager repainted but before I get too involved I have a few questions:

First, were Santa Cruz Bontragers originally powdercoated or wet-painted? I thought they were powdercoated but the bicycle painter I spoke with said it was likely a wet-paint and that powdercoat cost more to remove because he would have to melt if off.

Second, if the frame has been powdercoated and I do not wish to pay an additional fee, is there a good way to remove the paint? In the past, I have had good luck with Jasco stripper but it's pretty nasty stuff. Any other effect method?

Third, there seems to be a nice coat of rust inside the tubes and in various places on the outside of the frame. Nothing seems concerning but I would like to clean it up and have decided to try an oxalic acid bath. I'm currently testing it with the bb shell of an old ritchey frame and after only a couple hours the superficial outside rust seems to be coming right off, but the rust inside the tubes seems to be more difficult. I guess I'm wondering if I should just focus on removing the external rust or is it worth working on cleaning the inside of the tubes as well? 

Sorry for all the questions, hopefully some of you have been through this process enough times to have some advice. Thanks!


----------



## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

Don't have all you answers but SC Bontragers were powder coated.

Glad you're keeping that one.


----------



## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Yep, definitely powder coated. And that frame looks really small, and appears to be missing a top tube and dropouts.


----------



## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

laffeaux said:


> And that frame looks really small, and appears to be missing a top tube and dropouts.


It's a work in progress. As soon as I can afford some new tubes, I'll ship it off to the Bontrager factory in Santa Cruz so Keith can re-weld it for me.


----------



## bryanus (Jun 1, 2008)

i had my Bonty Race stripped of its original powdercoat and then re-powdered a sparkly orange (with clear powder on top). Came out beautifully. The old powdercoat finish is just blasted off with sand-blasting or similar; any powder place will do that. I can't recall exactly what the job cost me, but I want to say in the neighborhood of ~$200 or so, maybe less. They did the fork, too.


----------



## edray (Oct 3, 2004)

bryanus said:


>


Wow, that is beautiful! Great job. Where'd you get the decals?


----------



## bryanus (Jun 1, 2008)

I made them myself using a vinyl cutting machine I have. The letters are actually cut-outs, showing the paint underneath. Simple way to get a second "color" into the decal.

If you need an original set of decals (in any colorway you want), you can get exact replacements from user "gil_m' over on retrobike.


----------



## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

You do not use heat to remove powder coating. You use a media blaster with the correct size media


----------



## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

banks said:


> You do not use heat to remove powder coating. You use a media blaster with the correct size media


 Plus you take it to a painter that has plenty of experience with bikes. Do your research first. Get recommendations from shops, builders ect. During blasting it's not only possible but probable they will ruin your frame if they don't know what they're doing. I had a frame done by a local hot rod shop that was blasted so hard the headset cups and seat post just drop right in now.


----------



## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

jeff said:


> Plus you take it to a painter that has plenty of experience with bikes. Do your research first.


Yep!

Spectrum Powderworks in Colorado Springs


----------



## datasurfer (Nov 24, 2006)

banks said:


> You do not use heat to remove powder coating. You use a media blaster with the correct size media


I wouldn't use blast media or heat at to remove the powder coat from thin wall steel bicycle tubes. I had Tim Sanner of Sanner Cycles re-powder coat my Bontrager Race when he was still building in California. He and S&S powder coating both use an environmentally friendly solvent that dissolves the powder coat, leaving the tubes undamaged.

Tim is a super nice guy and would likely tell you what secret sauce he used:

Sanner Cycles


----------



## mrjustin007 (Jul 22, 2008)

bryanus said:


> i had my Bonty Race stripped of its original powdercoat and then re-powdered a sparkly orange (with clear powder on top). Came out beautifully. The old powdercoat finish is just blasted off with sand-blasting or similar; any powder place will do that. I can't recall exactly what the job cost me, but I want to say in the neighborhood of ~$200 or so, maybe less. They did the fork, too.


Looks great - I had mine stripped and re-powdercoated a while back, and just picked up some decals - Any tips on applying them?


----------



## bryanus (Jun 1, 2008)

mrjustin007 said:


> Looks great - I had mine stripped and re-powdercoated a while back, and just picked up some decals - Any tips on applying them?


I just marked the centerline of the frame tubes with a fine sharpie and drew a length of line about where the ends of the decals would be. I used the lines as a guide to place the ends of the decals on the lines. That's basically about it. Your decals should have come with a carrier sheet on top of the actual decals so you can apply them and rub them down once they are in place.


----------



## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

bryanus said:


> They did the fork, too.


What fork is that?

In regards to removing powdercoat, apparently some people have had good luck using gasket remover. Anyone try this?


----------



## YETIFIED (May 4, 2005)

Maas Bros. in California. They do/did many local frame builder's powdering such as Sycip, Ventana, Steelman, Kelly and Rock Lobster to name a few. They can either blast or dip depending on what you'd like. The dipping method removes rust as well and after you get your frame back, you can use frame saver in the tubes.

I've removed many powdercoats using Jasco.


----------



## bryanus (Jun 1, 2008)

Sizzler said:


> What fork is that?


It's a viscious cycles fork.


----------



## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

What color are you looking to go with?


----------



## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

chefmiguel said:


> What color are you looking to go with?


I want to keep the rasta theme, so I would like to match the original dark green as closely as possible. I also need it to match the trim on the replacement decals I have. I hope that's not too tall an order.

On a related note, I will need to rebuild the wheels, and was thinking about using these old vantage comp rims. They are practically new, any reason I shouldn't use them?


----------



## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

I have a 91 OR and the original finish is definitely powder coat. I have considered getting mine re-powder-coated but the riveted and bonded alloy top-tube cable guides present an issue in getting this done. Even if you get the old finish off with no ill affect, the new powder coat has to be baked-on with a pretty high temp and I am thinking this would not be a good thing for the bonded bits. Anyone have any specific experience with re-finishing the older OR frames?


----------



## datasurfer (Nov 24, 2006)

N10S said:


> I have a 91 OR and the original finish is definitely powder coat. I have considered getting mine re-powder-coated but the riveted and bonded alloy top-tube cable guides present an issue in getting this done. Even if you get the old finish off with no ill affect, the new powder coat has to be baked-on with a pretty high temp and I am thinking this would not be a good thing for the bonded bits. Anyone have any specific experience with re-finishing the older OR frames?


Oops. just noticed that you were talking about cable tube guides and not water bottle cage bosses. I'm just going to leave this up as a resource inc are anyone needs help with the water bottle bosses on regular Races and Racelites...

They are called rivets and are actually riveted in with a special tool, not chemically bonded. The heat necessary to cure the powder coat will not affect the bond. The rivets are anodized black, not painted, so if your are really anal about the restore, you could drill the rivnuts out prior to the powdercoating process and then reinstall new ones with the specialty tool after the process is complete

I decided it was not worth the effort and just had them painted along with the frame (which is part of the reason I chose black as the powder coat color...that and it makes the bike look slimmer)


----------



## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

datasurfer said:


> I decided it was not worth the effort and just had them painted along with the frame (which is part of the reason I chose black as the powder coat color...that and it makes the bike look slimmer)


 Oh yeah; old bikes get fatter..


----------



## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

Sizzler said:


> I want to keep the rasta theme,
> 
> On a related note, I will need to rebuild the wheels, and was thinking about using these old vantage comp rims. They are practically new, any reason I shouldn't use them?


They aren't red or otherwise rasta colored.


----------



## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

Boy named SSue said:


> They aren't red or otherwise rasta colored.


Come on man, did you see that sticker?! Throw some green nipples on and I and I is rollin rastafari!


----------



## Woodsy (Aug 15, 2005)

I've been searching the forums here but still haven't found an explicit/detailed answer: do the baking temperatures and/or curing process of powdercoating weaken thin-wall steel bicycle tubes or welds? (ie, double butted 853, OX Gold, etc?) 

Thanks!


----------



## paetersen (Jul 28, 2007)

Woodsy said:


> I've been searching the forums here but still haven't found an explicit/detailed answer: do the baking temperatures and/or curing process of powdercoating weaken thin-wall steel bicycle tubes or welds? (ie, double butted 853, OX Gold, etc?)
> 
> Thanks!


Explicit Answer: No.

I'm all out of Detailed Answer today.


----------



## paetersen (Jul 28, 2007)

datasurfer said:


> Oops. just noticed that you were talking about cable tube guides and not water bottle cage bosses. I'm just going to leave this up as a resource inc are anyone needs help with the water bottle bosses on regular Races and Racelites...
> 
> They are called rivets and are actually riveted in with a special tool, not chemically bonded. The heat necessary to cure the powder coat will not affect the bond. The rivets are anodized black, not painted, so if your are really anal about the restore, you could drill the rivnuts out prior to the powdercoating process and then reinstall new ones with the specialty tool after the process is complete
> 
> I decided it was not worth the effort and just had them painted along with the frame (which is part of the reason I chose black as the powder coat color...that and it makes the bike look slimmer)


Unless you have my problem, another Bontrager with rust. Specifically on my '90 with rust under the riveted cable guides. This is the only rust on the bike and I am still trying to figure out how to drill the rivets out without ending up with bits of rivet rattling around the top tube after the repair.


----------



## datasurfer (Nov 24, 2006)

:thumbsup: LOL


paetersen said:


> Explicit Answer: No.
> 
> I'm all out of Detailed Answer today.


----------



## datasurfer (Nov 24, 2006)

paetersen said:


> Unless you have my problem, another Bontrager with rust. Specifically on my '90 with rust under the riveted cable guides. This is the only rust on the bike and I am still trying to figure out how to drill the rivets out without ending up with bits of rivet rattling around the top tube after the repair.


Hey Paeterson,

Good point. Since I posted last in this thread, I acquired a 95 Racelite that again used rivets for the water bottle cage bosses. Powder coat was in pretty bad shape (read rust), so I opted for a respray. I drilled the rivnuts out of the downtube. The remnants of one were small enough that I was able to shack and rattle it out of the vent hole at the down tube, bottom bracket intersection. The remnants of the other rivnut fastener were too large to fit through the vent hole by just shaking. I grabbed onto it with a needle-nosed plier and it malformed, fit through the vent hole and I was able to yank it on out. The rivnut fastener was made of aluminum, so it was rather easy. Your Bonty is older, so I do not know what material the rivets are, or how large the rivet holes are so you mileage may vary. Hope my experience helps you in some capacity.


----------



## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

Little Update: I found a nice local shop with bike painting experience and can match the original powder coat, but before I go ahead with it, I was wondering what questions I should ask or directions I should give them to make sure they don't mess up my frame. Any advice?


----------



## datasurfer (Nov 24, 2006)

Sizzler said:


> Little Update: I found a nice local shop with bike painting experience and can match the original powder coat, but before I go ahead with it, I was wondering what questions I should ask or directions I should give them to make sure they don't mess up my frame. Any advice?


Make sure they mask off the threads for the bottom bracket and the water bottle cage mounts. I once made the mistake of going to a powder coating facility that specialized more in commercial applications to get a bike frame refinished. The powder coat came out way too thick. This will not only add weight to a lightweight thin wall steel frame, but will likely hide the edges of the external gussets on the Bonty frame...a feature you really want to show off. I later had a bike builder coat mine and made a point of telling him to lay as little powder on the frame as possible for full coverage. The gloss black came out looking like wet paint, but more durable. I am very happy.:thumbsup:


----------



## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

Back from the painters!


----------



## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

nice siz.


----------



## datasurfer (Nov 24, 2006)

Wow. Hard to tell from new.

Thank you for putting the top tube decal on in the right direction. I can't count the number of times I have seen them applied backwards when the decals have been replaced.


----------



## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

No sliders?


----------



## bryanus (Jun 1, 2008)

Where did you get the decals? From gil?


----------



## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

datasurfer said:


> Thank you for putting the top tube decal on in the right direction. I can't count the number of times I have seen them applied backwards when the decals have been replaced.


Haha, I actually started to put them on wrong but realized the OR goes up front. It's counterintuitive because the sticker looks like a backwards arrow.



umarth said:


> No sliders?


No, nor disc tabs. When I accidentally ran over my front wheel, the project costs suddenly went beyond my budget and certain items had to be cut.



bryanus said:


> Where did you get the decals? From gil?


They actually came with the bike, which I won on ebay so I'm not sure where they came from originally.



hairstream said:


> nice siz.


Thanks, I had the fork painted as well. I'll post more pics as I go! :thumbsup:


----------



## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

The decals are genuine Bontragers, original owner had the foresight to order 2 extra sets when he ordered the frame.


----------



## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

Done, mostly. Not very vintage anymore. A few upgrades like Nokon housing, Dura Ace bottom bracket, and Stan's tubeless front wheel (building a matching back wheel) put's it around 18lbs.

<img src = "https://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/Sizzle-Chest/IMG_0067.jpg" >


----------



## puddletown (Jan 30, 2011)

mighty garden gnome you have there.


----------



## mike5krnr (Sep 14, 2004)

Sizzler said:


> Back from the painters!


Looks great! Who did you use to paint it? I have an Aluminum Rock Lobster frame I want to paint... Thanks


----------



## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

uh oh.


----------



## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

Did you get a new fork as well? I'm gonna have to email you soon...


----------



## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

mike5krnr said:


> Looks great! Who did you use to paint it? I have an Aluminum Rock Lobster frame I want to paint... Thanks


..............


----------



## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

mike5krnr said:


> Looks great! Who did you use to paint it? I have an Aluminum Rock Lobster frame I want to paint... Thanks


Thanks! I just found a local powder coat shop, I'm pretty happy with the work.



umarth said:


> Did you get a new fork as well? I'm gonna have to email you soon...


Naw, it's the same P2, just color matched. I'm on the fence about how it looks, I kinda liked the black, but there's no turning back now!



puddletown said:


> mighty garden gnome you have there.


Yes, his name is Buff McSquat-thrust.



hairstream said:


> uh oh.


What happened, turn out to be more than a fart?



jeff said:


> ..............


Not sure what you mean, it's definitely not spray bombed.


----------



## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Sizzler said:


> Thanks! I just found a local powder coat shop, I'm pretty happy with the work.
> 
> Naw, it's the same P2, just color matched. I'm on the fence about how it looks, I kinda liked the black, but there's no turning back now!
> 
> ...


It was a joke.  My sense of humor is lost at at times. 
BTW Good job. I have a CX that needs some major work.


----------



## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

Sizzler said:


> What happened, turn out to be more than a fart?


yeah. i sharted a bit when i saw your parts pick. :thumbsup:


----------



## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

...to each his/her own.


----------



## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

Made a little video of the Bontrager's first ride after the repaint. Take it easy on me, it's also my first video!


----------



## namkrad (Jul 22, 2009)

Your bike looks absolutely awesome :thumbsup:
And I really enjoyed the vid.
Great stuff.
/J


----------



## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

Hey thanks, I appreciate it!


----------



## chubspeed (Jan 22, 2012)

That's exactly right. You can powdercoat just about anything the bike industry uses save for carbon and thermoplastic, both of which, technically you CAN powdercoat, you just cure them differently.

As far as metals, powder temp won't hurt any of them, even Scandium. At Spectrum we have done thousands with 0 problems.

Typical cure cycles (when cured properly) are 390-405 for 30-33 minutes. Be careful with the "bargain" coaters. Sometimes they batch stuff and it ends up undercured which is no better than a shoddy liquid job as far as durability. 

Also watch it with blasters - if they don't know about bikes, (most won't) they will beat on it til it comes off. Not good for aluminum and thin steel. Powder needs to be chemically loosened (we use aircraft stripper) and them removed with polyurea (shredded plastic).


----------



## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Dug the video as well---great looking trail.


----------



## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

I've owned quite a few Spectrum bikes and I will say you know what you're doing.



chubspeed said:


> That's exactly right. You can powdercoat just about anything the bike industry uses save for carbon and thermoplastic, both of which, technically you CAN powdercoat, you just cure them differently.
> 
> As far as metals, powder temp won't hurt any of them, even Scandium. At Spectrum we have done thousands with 0 problems.
> 
> ...


----------

