# Solarstorm x3 XM-L2 U2



## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Hey guys

I was reading about the Solarstorm xt40 and wrote GearBest.com, who I have had good experiences with my Dashcams, to see if they sold the XML2 version. I didn't have the best experience with Fasttech the last time.

Long story short they said the can change the Emitters to XML2-U2, which made me think to ask about the same for the SSX3. They say that they can add XML2-U2 for $42.50 with battery. What do you think? Sounds great.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

GJHS said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I was reading about the Solarstorm xt40 and wrote GearBest.com, who I have had good experiences with my Dashcams, to see if they sold the XML2 version. I didn't have the best experience with Fasttech the last time.
> 
> Long story short they said the can change the Emitters to XML2-U2, which made me think to ask about the same for the SSX3. They say that they can add XML2-U2 for $42.50 with battery. What do you think? Sounds great.


I've been waiting for the X3 to come out using XM-L2 for quite a while. So far I've not seen anyone marketing them on a website although I have seen a cloned version using the L2's over on D/X. Not to say that Gearbest won't do what you say it's just that I would find that very unusual for a Chinese website to take "Special orders " on a build that they aren't already selling on their website. FWIW, and without going into detail I've not had a good experience with Gearbest delivering on the promised goods that they already sell. If they actually would be willing to provide a "custom order" I would find that quite strange if not hard to believe.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Lots of SSX3's on Ebay showing XM-L2 emitters but listing XM-L in their description. It's a crapshoot what you'll get. My SSX3 came that way (came with XM-L2's). The BIGGER issue is concerning "pills". We are starting to see X3's coming with thin pills now (or mayeb it was no pills - can't remember). 

-Garry


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

garrybunk said:


> Lots of SSX3's on Ebay showing XM-L2 emitters but listing XM-L in their description. It's a crapshoot what you'll get.


Just to chip in and say that yip, it is your total donald duck what you are going to get!

I bought two SolarStorm X2 lights from the same eBay seller, a red one and a black one. I tried the red one for the first time today and on High the battery lasted about twenty-five minutes!

When I Googled it I saw there there are various versions of the SSX2 out there, identical on the outside but different inside, so I popped open the two I have here. These two lights came from the same place, identical packing etc, but the two units are completely different inside! Including the pictures I've seen on the net there are at least _four_ versions out there!

But that's not the best bit. I checked the current draw of the two lamp units using a multimeter and the red lamp is drawing more than _double_ the current of the black one!

The red unit draws 367.3 mA on the low setting.
The black lamp draws 154.6 mA on the same low setting.

Also, when plugged into the same battery the three indicator lights on the black unit stay lit where as the red until drops to two lights straight away.

I am going to try both lamps using the same battery to see how long they run for but it looks like the red unit is a dog. The seller has been informed.

Point being that if I hadn't bought two of the things I would never have known. Scary stuff.


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Is there a noticeable impressive difference between the current SSX3 vs the SSX2 ?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

I had both and didn't think there was much difference.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

It depends on how good the units are you're comparing. I just received a very poor underdriven X2. I also own a pretty decent X3. So my X3 blows away my X2. Also, the X3 will be a floodier light due to three emitters vs. two at approx. same diameters. 

-Garry


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> It depends on how good the units are you're comparing. I just received a very poor underdriven X2. I also own a pretty decent X3. So my X3 blows away my X2. Also, the X3 will be a floodier light due to three emitters vs. two at approx. same diameters.
> 
> -Garry


The X3 that I got has a dimmer hotspot than the x2 that I have. It does have a much broader beam than the x2. Did I get one of the underpowered lights? Did you take it apart, is there a visible difference of the circuit?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

varider said:


> The X3 that I got has a dimmer hotspot than the x2 that I have. It does have a much broader beam than the x2. Did I get one of the underpowered lights? Did you take it apart, is there a visible difference of the circuit?


It makes sense that 2 emitters throw further than 3 emitters when they are basically the same size and driven at nearly the same current level. You're trading off throw for spill generally moving up in number of emitters (unless there are other changes like reflector size).

The circuits will vary widely! I don't have in-depth knowledge of the circuitry. All I can do is measure currents (and generally I just measure current pulled off the battery pack as I show in this BLF thread). Until you measure current you really don't have much to go on to say whether your unit is underpowered or not other than your eyes which can be deceiving since "throwy" lights will appear to be putting out more light. Case in point - check out post#22 in the HD-016 review thread. That light has one "flood" and one "throw" LED. Both are driven at the exact same current level, but take a look at the beamshots and how they trick your eyes.

Yes, I've torn my X3 apart. Photo gallery here.

-Garry


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

Hi all

First post on the MTBR forum  (although I spent quite some time reading it already)...

I wanted to add my contribution to this post.
I have myself a small collection of bike lights and I'm night riding at least once a week.

My collection covers mainly chinese lights (except my first light that was the 2x halo light from Sigma).
On my helmet, I have a single XM-L2 driven at 2.8A that fulfills its role quite well.

On the bar; I've had a succession of lights but so far I was not enterely satisfied.

The last one i used was a (bad) clone of a Solarstorm X2 bought at DX.

2 weeks ago I was browsing a bit ebay to see what was out there. And I saw that one seller was selling Solarstorm X3 with XM-L2. Price around 35 pounds.
Ordered and received a week later (from english warehouse).

I'm used to test my lights the way Garry does it. Measure current pulled off battery pack. From the configuration of the lights, I can derive more or less an approximation of the real lumens I was getting out of it (if you forget the losses).

Up to now, I think the most current I measured from my lights was about 2A at 7.2V (the last Solarstorm X2 being around 1.9A on the high setting).

Today just did the test with the new Solarstorm X3 XM-L2.
And... WOW!

Low mode: 1.08A
Mid mode: 2.2A
High mode: 4.56A !!!

About 32W of power... I had never seen that much...
4.5A from the battery at 7.2V -> Current to each LED (3 in parallel) = 3A
Lumen estimate (XM-L2 T6)... Something above 3000 lumens!

Battery fully charged. Room temperature.

Here is the link where I ordered it (they claim the object is a genuine Solarstorm): 2nd Generation X2 SolarStorm X3 Cree XM-L2 Energy Saving LED Bike Bicycle Light | eBay

I will have to wait a bit more to test it in real conditions (still healing from a bad fall...) but wanted to share my findings already


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Wow! Thanks for sharing! 

-Garry


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

To follow up on my original post, I spoke with Dora from GearBest yesterday and she said the SolarStorm X3 with XM-L2 U2 emitters was finally finished and mine was sent out.

I asked her for a link she said it wasnt fully updated yet and sent me Solarstorm X3 3 x Cree XM L2 2200lm 4-Mode 18650 LED Headlamp with 4-18650 Battery Pack-38.42 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com. She said there is a coupon code SolarstormX3 that makes the price $34.99 for Light and Battery. I can say this about GearBest, they do love their coupon codes, seems a lot of Chinese sites do.

I'm happy with the price and will test it as soon as it arrives. She confirmed its definitely XM-L2 U2, it's real Solarstorm and before the build we discussed the pills so I'm excited to see how it performs.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I'd be interested to know a little more. The ebay link you sent lists the battery as 1s4p, so it only outputs 3.7V to get 8800mah. Did you measure the voltage coming out of the battery? Are you sure it's 4.5A at 7.2V or is it 4.5A @ 3.7V?



jeanphi500 said:


> Hi all
> 
> First post on the MTBR forum  (although I spent quite some time reading it already)...
> 
> ...


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Thanks for the details Garry, I'll have to take a closer look tomorrow.


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

neons97 said:


> I'd be interested to know a little more. The ebay link you sent lists the battery as 1s4p, so it only outputs 3.7V to get 8800mah. Did you measure the voltage coming out of the battery? Are you sure it's 4.5A at 7.2V or is it 4.5A @ 3.7V?


I tested it with my own battery (a double one, 2S4P). And yes I'm sure it is 4.5A at 7.2V.
The capacity of batteries is always overestimated by the sellers... They just think that if they have 4 batteries of 2200mAh connected together they get a battery with 8800mAh. Of course only true if they are connected all in parallel.

And by the way the "waterproof" battery voltage coming with it was also measured at about 8V (without any load).

My setup:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*In keeping with posts 12-15;*

The listing for the X3 ( ebay UK ) looks promising but the listing for output current is only 3000ma. If the LED's are in parallel that's only 1A to each led on high, maybe 1200 lumen (?). Not worried about the battery, just a mistake in the ad. They at least seem to know it's XM-L2. Not sure about U2 or not and includes a UK charger ( not real useful unless you have an adapter ).

What gearbest is offering is nebulous at best. No mention in the ad of what driver is being used. The included photo is showing a lamp with XM-L's ( not L2's ). That might not mean anything though. They just might not have a correct photo to show.

It would be nice to get a 6A driver. That would put 2A into each LED giving more output ( assuming a parallel configuration ) They do make 6A drivers for these. My Nitefire Hero 2 ( DX ) ( using XM-L U2 ) is suppose to have one ( according to the ad ). The lamp is quite bright, very close to my Gloworm 1500 lumen X2 (v3) . Then again, who really knows how much output the drivers have unless you measure the current coming directly from the LED's themselves.


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

But knowing that you have 4.5A being pulled out of the battery tells you something about what goes to your LEDs.

4.5A at 7.2V means 9A at 3.6V...
That means that each of the LEDs is driven at something around 3A.

I was really very surprised when I measured it. So surprised that I redid the same test with several of the lights I own to check that there was nothing wrong with the setup.

I'm always very cautious when I read the specs of the listings. They mostly copy things from the manufacturer when they are not copying things form other sellers 

It's a pure lotery and this time it seems I put my hand on something good !


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

jeanphi500 said:


> But knowing that you have 4.5A being pulled out of the battery tells you something about what goes to your LEDs.
> 
> 4.5A at 7.2V means 9A at 3.6V...
> That means that each of the LEDs is driven at something around 3A.


That's exactly how I roughly determine LED currents too, though sometimes I estimate some driver loss. Congrats! You won the lottery! Warning though to anyone jumping on the same listing - you're still not guaranteed to get the same driver!

-Garry


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> What gearbest is offering is nebulous at best. No mention in the ad of what driver is being used. The included photo is showing a lamp with XM-L's ( not L2's ). That might not mean anything though. They just might not have a correct photo to show.
> 
> It would be nice to get a 6A driver.


True and the wait on these Chinese lights makes it difficult to just give quick answers (basically I hate waiting) so we won't know until it arrives.

I will write Dora at GearBest and see if she can ask the supplier about the driver. I asked her to upgrade this light after asking about the XT40 with XM-L2, so it's all new to them. I asked about the X3 because, besides the recent listing in England, I haven't seen any for an X3 with XM-L2 U2 and thought it would make a great upgrade. I asked her to confirmed real SolarStorm, stressed about the pill quality and asked for the XML2 emitters, I didn't ask for a specific driver unfortunately. It at least shows the seller is open to customer suggestions and willing to customize products. She even threw in a coupon code to make the new light cheaper.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

BTW Dora is in charge of Flashlights and Bike Lights at GearBest. Her email is [email protected]


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

garrybunk said:


> It depends on how good the units are you're comparing. I just received a very poor underdriven X2. -Garry


I just looked up my SolarStorm branded X2 eBay purchase from last Oct, one I sent back($17shipping) for a refund, died on first ride. The other works fine but isn't as bright as my now dead 808 clones.

The seller now seems to specialize in "Adult" Cosplay wear... 
always-boutique on eBay


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## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

Why not just go to GearBest and tell them what we all desire on this thread and see if we can do a group buy? The last group buy failed because to me, it isn't about saving a few bucks. It is about getting the best specs for the light at a fair price.

I think if a X2, X3, X40, or an old quality Yinding clone came on with the stuff we all want, they would sell a ton of them. I would initiate, but have no idea what I would be asking for.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

dawgman25 said:


> Why not just go to GearBest and tell them what we all desire on this thread and see if we can do a group buy? The last group buy failed because to me, it isn't about saving a few bucks. It is about getting the best specs for the light at a fair price.


Lots of companies sell the specs we all desire, Xeccon, Gemini, Gloworm, etc...

All for far less than I have "invested" in my Bottom Drawer...


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## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

Yes, I realize that, but here we all are still buying these lesser lights at a discount price. My point being, if they would just get the specs right, the sales of these knock offs would skyrocket instead of playing the game of roulette.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

The SSX3 with the XM-L2 U2 is on many checklists and should be amazing. As I said before I have some experience with GearBest on the DashCam/Action cam side with SJ4000 and Dora was a pleasure to work with so if there is a group buy we can all agree upon I'm sure she would be willing to help. I told her I didn't want a group buy deal after reading the previous thread, only saving a few bucks.

I personally think this SSX3 will be great, so I can't wait to get it and test it out. I was really wanting another Yinding for sure, it's a great light. Too bad the factory screwed it up. I'm in for a custom Yinding XM-L2 group buy if there's interest.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

dawgman25 said:


> Yes, I realize that, but here we all are still buying these lesser lights at a discount price. My point being, if they would just get the specs right, the sales of these knock offs would skyrocket instead of playing the game of roulette.


If those guys "spec'd" quality parts in their lights the resulting price would be very close to this from a reputable seller, $70 for lighthead:
Action-LED-Lights MJ-872 1600* Lumen Light Set

And Action-LED ships from the midwest, you can call/email... and get it the same week.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

patski said:


> If those guys "spec'd" quality parts in their lights the resulting price would be very close to this from a reputable seller, $70 for lighthead:
> Action-LED-Lights MJ-872 1600* Lumen Light Set
> 
> And Action-LED ships from the midwest, you can call/email... and get it the same week.


Interesting you chose a XP-G model with overheating issues.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

GJHS said:


> Interesting you chose a XP-G model with overheating issues.


Did I? Just hitting a lower price point, figgered Jim was realistic with his lumen claims...

Think the MTBR Light Shootout has a Lumen/$ chart.

Dont' get me wrong, I love cheep lights, just ordered an SS XT-40 light head.


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## capoz77 (Sep 14, 2006)

These are both from Ebay UK

The more "polished" finished SSX3, has allen bolts, nicer metal bezel, perfect unmarked heatsink, a "TM" sign after the Solar Storm, proper red and black Solar Storm box, all round looks a better made light, ...... but it has XM-L led... This has all the traits of the genuine Solarstorm.hk ( Solarstorm X3 bike light ???? ) made by Shenzhen Science and Technology Co., Ltd.





The brown boxed SSX3, is very different, phillips screw heads which are marked like a power driver has been used, imperfectly cheaper finished metal bezel, blue rubber seal around the circles, ® mark after the "solarstorm" heatsink has dings in it and not finished well, button on the back doesnt click as nice, BUT it has XM-L2's fitted :thumbsup:



The brown boxed inferior looking, SSX3 is a lot better on the trails :thumbsup: The XT40 beats them both though handsdown. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

I asked Dora about the driver on the X3 XM-L2 and early this morning she wrote "hi Mike, got the reply for the X3 driver, it's 6A, each led is 2 A, is it good?". 
She sent some photos as well














I cant wait till this light comes


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I think we need pictures of the drivers. That's probably the only way we can keep them apart. Why can't we just buy straight from the manufacturer? I'm tired of all of these clones.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

GJHS said:


> I asked Dora about the driver on the X3 XM-L2 and early this morning she wrote "hi Mike, got the reply for the X3 driver, it's 6A, each led is 2 A, is it good?".
> She sent some photos as well...


Looks good. If it truly is with the 6A driver it will be like mine only with XM-L2. It should rival the XT40 I have and make a very nice helmet lamp.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

2A per led will make for a very bright light. 582 to 728 lumens per led according to the cree xm-l2 data sheet, if they give you one of good bins listed. That's a big IF.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

It was confirmed from the supplier as XM-L2 U2. All these can only of course be confirmed when I get it. If the specs are right, then it's should a sweet light. Of course at $35, while on sale, it may be a better deal than the XT40.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

GJHS said:


> It was confirmed from the supplier as XM-L2 U2


So it's a cool white? That would make it 728 lumens per led, minus optics losses.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Again I built it, sorta, requested U2 and asked for confirmation along the way. The only way to tell is to get it and because of the battery it's coming the slower way.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

varider said:


> 2A per led will make for a very bright light. 582 to 728 lumens per led according to the cree xm-l2 data sheet, if they give you one of good bins listed. That's a big IF.
> 
> View attachment 938112


you get lots of lumens and shitty cri. or good cri and low lumens. im guessing you will see things equally good but be less annoyoed with the high cri lights. you sacrifice cri for more momocrome effect lumens. To me it appears these are infact equally good but different, but as always lumens sell. ever seen a hid orange momochrome light, low pressure sodium, very much lumens, very much lumens/w but still you cant see jack chit...


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

By the way the light came for me (eBay UK) in a shiny black unlabelled box. For once, it was not in an universal brown carton box.

Mine has Philips screws not hex.

And the LEDs are driven at 3A (I didn't open the light yet, no idea what kind of driver it is).
Seller swears it is originla Solarstorm...


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Sounds fishy, why would they send it in another box? Here's the box, I didnt post it because I thought a box is a box, yet it may be important


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

GJHS said:


> Again I built it, sorta, requested U2 and asked for confirmation along the way. The only way to tell is to get it and because of the battery it's coming the slower way.


It would be cool if you could get us some shots of the internals of what they are selling. I would like to see how the led's are mounted and if they have adequate heat conduction to the case. A couple of pictures of the driver would be good also.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Can you take some measurements of amp draw at the led's?


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Still waiting for it to arrive


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

GJHS said:


> Still waiting for it to arrive


Oh sorry, I forgot that you already ordered it.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I bought the connectors that garrybunk discovered and measured the current on my X3 xm-l which I got from lightmalls. It pulls only 1.74A on high! That's with a fully charged 6-cell Xeccon battery. The current also started to drop as the light heats up. No wonder I have disappointed with this light. I would love to have the over 4A version, I bet that would be pretty bright.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Are your led's setup series or parallel? Wondering if each led is getting 1.7a or if they are each getting .55a. Can you measure

Also is the xeccon 6 cell 2s3p or 3s2p? 1.7a @ 3s2p isn't too shabby.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

neons97 said:


> Are your led's setup series or parallel? Wondering if each led is getting 1.7a or if they are each getting .55a. Can you measure
> 
> Also is the xeccon 6 cell 2s3p or 3s2p? 1.7a @ 3s2p isn't too shabby.


It's a regular 7-8V battery, so it's 2s3p. I'm not sure how it's wired. The led's are all mounted on a board. Since the Solarstorm X2 (xm-l2) that i have is drawing almost 2A, the X3 obliviously not as bright.

Also, can you just divide the battery current by 3 to get current across the led's (assuming parallel configuration)? I always thought the voltage across led's was only 4 Volts. I took some electronics, I should know this.


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

Yes the operating voltage is around 3,7V.

That's why it was easy for me to deduct the configuration of the LEDs in my case. I had 4.5A drawn from the battery at 7,4V.
So around 9A at 3,7V.

With 3 LEDs, the only config I can think of, knowing the setup for the modes (all 3 LEDs are on always) is then 3P.

Which makes it 3A per LED. Optimal.

I went for a ride 2 days ago and I'm really happy with the spread of the beam. I have a single LED setup on my helmet with a very good throw (XM-L2 driven at 3A too).

The SS X3 sits on the bar.

Combination gives this (pitch dark, smartphone pic)









Only thing I saw is that the beam is not uniform. I see a slightly darker ring...


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

Something to mention too: on my X3, the Solarstorm logo at the top of the light has an R instead of a TM (just like in the pic of GJHS).

This I think makes it a clone... (on the "official" Solarstorm website they do not display any X2 or X3 with XM-L2).

But a clone with what seems to be a good driver.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

varider said:


> I bought the connectors that garrybunk discovered and measured the current on my X3 xm-l which I got from lightmalls. It pulls only 1.74A on high! That's with a fully charged 6-cell Xeccon battery. The current also started to drop as the light heats up. No wonder I have disappointed with this light. I would love to have the over 4A version, I bet that would be pretty bright.


Just make sure you are using short thick wires between connectors (at least 18ga I'd say). You also need good thich leads on your meter (I have a homemade set specifically for measuring currents). You can see the difference it makes for yourself if you try thin leads and then thick leads.

I recently used a cheap 1x18650 battery holder to run and test my duo clone. I found out that the thin leads of the holder were causing a big drop in current compared to when I took the battery out of the holder and simply held the leads on the ends.

Not saying your measurements are wrong; just want you to be aware of this. Sounds like your measurements are reasonable if it's not even as bright as your X2.

Also, what *jeanphi500* says in post #47 is how I estimate current through the LEDs. There are various emitter tests over at BLF that I refer to to then estimate lumens output. Remember that the actual current through the LEDs will differ due to the driver efficiency and as far as lumens output goes you will have losses due to reflector and lens (I think 20% loss is a decent estimate).

-Garry


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok my SolarStorm X3 from GearBest has arrived. It arrived in a SolarStorm box, build quality from the outside seems really nice, the light is well constructed. The emitters are definitely XM-L2 and the battery has a nice, tight screw type waterproof plug. 

This thing is really bright, much brighter than my Duo Clone, I'm impressed so far. Today is mild where I live, so if temps stay mild tonight, I will take it for a ride. If not I will try to get some beam shots vs my Duo clone. I will say for $35 bucks with a coupon code, this is a much better value than my Duo, that cost me $48 and has a cheap mount and cheap connectors.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok here are some cell phone pics of the Yinding Duo Clone XML vs the Solarstorm X3 XM-L2. Forgive the roughness, I will take more on trail pics with a proper camera setup

Duo








X3








Duo








X3








Duo








X3








You can tell, especially by the second X3 picture, that this light has good throw.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

That's a useful difference. How long does the X3 run for with the supplied battery?


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Yeah, now I'm pissed that I got a bum version of the X3. Your version is very bright. Thanks for the pictures. 

The question now is what's brighter, the good solastorm x3 or the xt-40? Are the leds mounted on single board, or are they mounted on individual pills?

Garry, thanks for the tip on the wire size. I definitely had some thinner wires in the loop, but it's all I had. It's probably good for relative values.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

I have the XT 40 coming, I think it's stuck in customs. As soon as I get it I will compare the two, give them a few rides and then disassemble them. Today I will run a battery test on high and post the results. I ran it on low for over an hour inside last night and it barely got warm, which impressed me. Another small thing that impressed me was the power button. It has a good, smooth action which makes it easy to switch between modes, unlike my Duo clone which is recessed and diificult to push fast.

As soon as the weather dries out, I will head out to the trails and take some real photos using the MTBR a camera settings. So far I'm liking this light.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

First test on high, indoors in front of a fan was 1 hour 20 mins


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

GJHS said:


> First test on high, indoors in front of a fan was 1 hour 20 mins


That's excellent! My X2 last for nearly two-hours but, going by the pictures, is nowhere near as bright. I only wish you could buy these things knowing for sure that you'd get a good one...


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Mr Pig said:


> I only wish you could buy these things knowing for sure that you'd get a good one...


Remember as a Dash cam manufacturer once said, in China R&D means Remember and Duplicate and Copyright means Right to Copy. Everyone copies the product that sells.

GearBest built this X3 custom with XM-L2 so they will all be same as mine. Here's the link Solarstorm X3 3 x Cree XM L2 2200lm 4-Mode 18650 LED Headlamp with 4-18650 Battery Pack-37.80 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com. They also made a coupon code "SolarstormX3" to make it $35 for the forum


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

GJHS said:


> GearBest built this X3 custom with XM-L2 so they will all be same as mine.


Thanks for the link, I've ordered one :0) The coupon code didn't work but I'm not bothered as it's still only a couple of pounds more than the X2 lights I bought. I've also mailed Torchy to try and get better batteries.

China is astonishing! There are no limits to what they will rip off. My sister was a director at chip manufacturer Intel and I remember her talking about how different countries stacked up as potential sites for fabrication plants. India doesn't have the infrastructure, stable power etc. She said you couldn't even think about putting a fab in China as they would rip off your chip designs. No question, they just would.

Lots of companies have fallen foul of the China Price. You've probably heard about BMW setting up a plant to build the X5 for the Chinese market and the clone appearing for sale before the genuine car! Then BMW suing the Chinese company in question, and loosing! It's an amazing situation, it really is.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

It truly is and plays on our desire for more for less. There are some companies from China that make quality at good price and have managed to beat the copy machine. One such product is the Mobius action cam. There is a developer approved seller list that ensures that you're buying the real deal and a hard working international development team continually improving the camera. In general with Chinese products you need to do a lot of homework, read a bunch of reviews, be realistic, patient and not too cheap.

Contact [email protected] about the coupon. I'm sure she will refund you the difference. My experience with GearBest, so far, shows they care about Customer Service.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

GJHS said:


> Contact [email protected] about the coupon. I'm sure she will refund you the difference.


Thank you. I have dropped her a mail. Like I say, it's only a few pounds so I'm not worried but it only took a minute to send a mail.

One big problem with buying products made in China is actually identifying genuine products. A couple of years ago I wanted to buy a pair of Koss Portapro headphones for my daughter and trying to make sure you bought a genuine pair was a nightmare. After finding out how to identify the fakes it became clear that a lot of the phones on sale, even from large retailers over here, were fake. I had the same issue with Sure SM-58 microphones and RayBan Wayfairer sunglasses.

And the problem is the fakes are getting harder to spot. As they realise which features are wrong they change them so that sometimes you can only identify a fake by internal inspection. Years ago a glance would do it but these days some of the fake Gibson SG and Les Paul guitars look really, really good.

And as these products circulate and surface on the used market the wear on them seems to lend greater authenticity to them. I've seen battered fake SM-58s sell on eBay for good money. It's such a shame. We are being dragged into a sea of mediocrity by China.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

I looked up the BMW copy you mentioned and started searching other examples and came across this
The 5 Most Insane Examples of Chinese Counterfeiting | Cracked.com


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

GJHS said:


> I looked up the BMW copy you mentioned and started searching other examples and came across this


Yeah, just blows you away doesn't it? The NEC story is staggering. They are going to take over the world and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

While the US has been thinking like a dinosaur and worrying about oil reserves the Chinese have sown up virtually all of the deposits of the rare minerals in the world that are required for hi-tech manufacturing. So now you have two choices, you either buy them from the Chinese or you get the Chinese to build your product.

I remember my sister saying many years ago that we were in deep trouble because up until that point the Chinese had been content to manufacture cheap goods but now they have decided to make everything! It's hard to see how Western economies can survive in the long term, not in a strong, healthy way at least.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Mr Pig said:


> Yeah, just blows you away doesn't it? The NEC story is staggering. They are going to take over the world and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
> 
> *While the US has been thinking like a dinosaur and worrying about oil reserves the Chinese have sown up virtually all of the deposits of the rare minerals in the world that are required for hi-tech manufacturing. So now you have two choices, you either buy them from the Chinese or you get the Chinese to build your product.
> 
> I remember my sister saying many years ago that we were in deep trouble because up until that point the Chinese had been content to manufacture cheap goods but now they have decided to make everything! It's hard to see how Western economies can survive in the long term, not in a strong, healthy way at least.*


Welllll....while there is some truth to this I would not go as far to say the Chinese have a monopoly on rare earth minerals. While they control much of the current market this is only because their country has lower environmental protection laws as well as cheaper labor cost that help make those minerals available. To get the bigger picture you might want to read this article from _Forbes_ that gives a little more detail.

With this in mind I remember reading somewhere ( not too long ago ) that Russia has multitudes of untapped natural resources that remain untapped simply because their economy is so screwed up. If they could get rid of Putin they might actual become a world economic powerhouse. Anyway, the point I'm making is that the global marketplace is an always changing/fluctuating entity. Just because one country dominates in one or more commodities at a given time doesn't mean that there will never be others that won't compete or perhaps completely change the status quo.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> Anyway, the point I'm making is that the global marketplace is an always changing/fluctuating entity. Just because one country dominates in one or more commodities at a given time doesn't mean that there will never be others that won't compete or perhaps completely change the status quo.


Sure, my point is though that China, well the far East generally, is going to take over the global economy, for multiple reasons, and people in the west are probably going to have a hard time getting used to it.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok my XT40 arrived from GearBest today and the battery is charging. I will try to get to a trail and at least take some real camera photos of the SolarStorm XT40 XM-L2 vs the SolarStorm X3 XM-L2 and maybe add in the Yinding XML just for fun. I will use the MTBR camera settings. So far, I can say both the XT40 and the X3 are super bright. I'm curious to see if the XT40 throws as far as the X3.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Mr Pig said:


> Sure, my point is though that China, well the far East generally, is going to take over the global economy, for multiple reasons, and people in the west are probably going to have a hard time getting used to it.


5 Reasons China Won't Take Over The World - Business Insider


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

GJHS said:


> 5 Reasons China Won't Take Over The World - Business Insider


Interesting read, thank you. I hadn't really thought about how the corruption might hold them back, so far it seems they are getting by despite it! People deal with China because they have no choice and I don't buy the idea that China cannot adapt like America can. In fact the opposite could be argued.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Back to the topic of lamps:

The photo's of the X3's with XM-L2's are impressive. The X3 clone I have ( with XM-L U2 ) is quite bright as well. I wish mine had the XM-L2's. I thought of buying one of the upgraded X3's but since I bought the XT40 I've been very satisfied with that. Still the X3's have a much more compact profile/footprint making them more desirable for the helmet.

Weather in my area should be nice tomorrow. I plan to get me another night ride in while I still have the chance.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

I just ran an indoor run time test of the X3, the XT40 and my Yinding Duo clone. 

The X3 ran for 1:25, never getting really hot nor dimming. It was warm in the center, getting cool at the fins. At 1:10 the last remaining battery meter green light started blinking and then 15 minutes later the light turned off.

The XT40 ran for 1:45 and I stopped it because it was very dim. It ran very hot to the touch. At 1:05 I noticed it had dimmed and the last green light started blinking. It continued to dim to a low level until I stopped it.

The Yinding Duo clone which is XML ran for 2.5+ hours and got a little hot to the touch. At 1:00 the battery indicator turned red and it ran without dimming until I stopped it.

I will recharge the batteries and take a time lapse of the X3 and the XT40


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Attempt 1 on the time lapse was a fail. I had the fan pointed up at the lights, so only the front was being cooled. This caused the XT40 to constantly dim down to low. The X3 didn't dim, it got hot yet was cooler on the sides, showing the cooling fins work.


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

Some updates on my Solarstorm X3. As you will remember, I had a driver that was taking in 4.5A at 7.4V. So the LEDs were truly driven at 3A.

Yesterday I rode with the X3 on the bar and I started to have issues with the light.

After a few minutes, the light switches from high to mid then low mode automatically. I believe the thermal protection just kicks in.
If I press the switch to loop through the modes and come back to high it comes back to full power but again dims after a few minutes.

I did not open it yet but I fear the thermal conduction is bad. I'll try to apply thermal paste and see if it helps.

Yesterday's temperature was not high (2 degrees Celsius) and I was not moving slowly (about 25km/h) so the light was optimally cooled.

I'll look further into it and update.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

That sucks. I can't imagine any light overheating at 35 F, even standing still. I wonder if it's low voltage on the battery causing you problems, not the thermal circuit.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

It's likely the lack of thermal path. 35W is a lot of heat and without pulling it to the outside air you're going to overheat things. Does your version have pills? Pills have good contact to the body? Pills have thermal compound at body? Does the body heat up quickly if turned on high and still? (It should heat very quickly at 35W if it has good thermal contact.) 

Battery fully charged? (Yes, we should rule out the battery too.) Crap cells can drop voltage quickly. Some may hold output at full charge, some may not. 

-Garry


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

Didn't open it yet.

I need to check about the heat. Yesterday with the cold I had my gloves on 
Battery was fully charged and the 3 green LEDs were on.

I will try to open it tonight to see.

I can also make an experiment: monitor the current and see when it switches from mode.


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

OK opened it now... and I understand why it overheats :-/

There are no pills at all. Nor thermal paste.
The LEDs are sitting on a very thin aluminium plate and this is all there is.
Thermal conduction is close to 0.

I did the test of letting run without ventilation. In about a minute the current dropped to the low setting. The body was starting to feel warm but nothing like superwarm.

I moved the driver apart from the body, as far as I could and it didn't drop.
Then there the body got warm (Not to the point of burning myself)

A few picks when dismantling it:

Driver, back







Driver, front







LEDs board



























Any advice on how to mod it to get better heat conduction?


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Looks like you have extremely sensitive thermal protection in driver.

Can you check if the leds are connected in parallel or in series?
Thanks


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

That's the eBay light you mentioned earlier? 

You could get some thermal paste behind those thin pills, connecting them to the light body better.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

You can try to fit copper pipe in behind the emitter board (in the cavity) - we had a user over at BLF do that. Or you can mix up a potting compound made from "duct seal" and silicon carbide and pack that in those cavities (it's another BLF concoction). Thermal compound at those thin edges at the very least, but still likely not enough. Ideally, you'd have someone machine you slugs to fit the cavities. 

-Garry


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

garrybunk said:


> You can try to fit copper pipe in behind the emitter board (in the cavity) - we had a user over at BLF do that. Or you can mix up a potting compound made from "duct seal" and silicon carbide and pack that in those cavities (it's another BLF concoction). Thermal compound at those thin edges at the very least, but still likely not enough. Ideally, you'd have someone machine you slugs to fit the cavities.
> 
> -Garry


I'm curious about the duct seal compound that you are talking about. I'll have to investigate it further later. The real problem is that the led are sitting on a thin board which sits on a equally thin lip with large holes drilled in it. Even if you had zero thermal resistance between the lip and the board, you still wouldn't have enough thickness to conduct the heat to the outside. That's my guess.

It almost like you need a specially made plate that slides in between the lip and driver side. It would have three raised circular areas (the thickness of the lip) that contact the led board from the driver side. It would also have to have perfect contact around the edge of the plate, otherwise it would be useless.


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## Parus Cristatus (Mar 13, 2013)

Hi,

I have ordered one-bay UK a solarstorm X3 XML-U2.
I have just received it on brown carbon box, with philips screws, and some outside minor difference. So I think it may be a fake and I have send an email to solarstorm. Here is there answer :

"Thanks for your email.

I am afraid you might have bought a fake one.

Our packaging is with red and black box. 

There are many fake solarstorm in the market. 

The reall one can not be too cheap.Have a nice day!



Yours sincerely, 

Lily "

So I had contacted the seller to ask him what he can do...
Wait&See...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

My opinion on this supposed thermal cut-off problem; It might not be a thermal issue with the LED's. I say this because I find it odd that there would be a thermal cut-off for overheating after just one minute....even if the MCPCB had no thermal path to the lamp body at all. My opinion, I think the problem lies elsewhere. There can be other problems that can cause the unintentional changing of modes. Looks like you just got a bad one.

The X3 clone I have doesn't do what yours does and it does get warm. Sadly, I don't have a 1mm hex wretch to remove the front on mine to see what makes it tick. Doesn't matter though because it seems to work fine other than the fact that mine seems to have a glichy mode button. Sometimes I press to change modes and nothing happens. Cheap power/click button......what are you gonna do?


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

So yes it is the model I bought off eBay in the UK.
The one where the LEDs are driven at their maximum: LEDs are put in parallel and are each driven at 3A. If you remember I measured a current of 4.5A out of the battery pack (at 7.4V).

I tried to run it with the driver a few cm apart from the body and did not see any current drop after 2 minutes. Then I put everything back in place and there I noticed the drop. And the drop is not sudden. The current decreases from 4.2A to 1.4 in something like 30 secs.

As for what I will do... I don't know. I'm inclined to try to enhance the thermal conduction with copper water tubes (having exactly a diameter of 15mm). I will also apply thermal paste. Will see if I can do something to try to fill the tube with maybe a stack of copper eurocents (if they fit).

But prior to that I will contact the ebay seller to see what he says about it.


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

In the meantime I ordered an XT40 from Gearbest :thumbsup:


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## cardnation (Jul 2, 2014)

The variation between the X3's is interesting. Appears we are beginning to see the same as what happened with the X2's.

What do we know about the version from DXsoul?
Highest quality and Cheap SolarStorm 800lm Cree XM-L T6 3-LED Cool White 4-Mode Bike Headlight - Black (7.4~8.4V) on sale


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

varider said:


> I'm curious about the duct seal compound that you are talking about. I'll have to investigate it further later.


The "potting compound" mixture of duct seal and silicon carbide was discussed over at BLF here: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/25034

In the US, Duct Seal is sold at Lowes and Home Depot. The silicon carbide is sold on Ebay listed as "Silicon Carbide Tumbling Grit" and I bought 400 grit from this seller. Another user mixes silicon carbide with JB Weld: Are You On Pot????? (potting and heatsinking with epoxy and silicon carbide) | BudgetLightForum.com.

I've yet to try it myself, but plan to with my Duo clone which is hollow inside.

-Garry


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

The one from GearBest that started this thread Solarstorm X3 3 x Cree XM L2 2200lm 4-Mode 18650 LED Headlamp with 4-18650 Battery Pack-37.80 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com is a good one and is very bright. Jeanphi500 in my tests the X3 handled the heat better than the XT40. Myself and others noticed it stepped down when hot on high indoors in front of a fan. The X3 didn't step down at all.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

jeanphi500, can you make better driver picture with elemens under toroid? I'm suspecting thermistor is under toroid which is heating up to much. I would say you need to conduct the heat away from it somehow. Can you check (with the fingers at least) which elements are the most hot?


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

this is why you buy from actionled!! All gemini and gloworms are working well and if not you will get taken care of. fuk this china bullsh1t. save a few dollars here and there, but have a 2000 dollar headache. I count my money in hours. If i can make something myself in like 3hours and it cost less than what I would earn in 3 hours overtime I simply buy it.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Thanks Garry

In my opinion, buying these solarstorms from ebay or even amazon is a bad proposition. With all the clones that are being manufactured you never have any idea what you are getting. Of course you can get bad lights from lightmalls (X3) and fasttech (newer Yindings). If gearbest is getting these straight from the factory maybe that's our best bet for some quality control. Maybe.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

I have to say I don't understand the thinking of some of these sellers. The Yinding is a perfect example. It was selling so well, the factory could hardly keep up. Sellers started sending cheap copies, orders were cancelled and no more sales were made. Fast forward one year and Dora says the Yinding factory never changed them, which means FastTech, Wallbuys and DX were making the clones that ended their high volume sales when they were at their peak. It makes no sense

With the GearBest X3 we need the people who bought them to post reviews when they arrive so we can confirm quality rather than trust my one copy. From experience with the GearBest XT40 and all the forum buyers who received them happy with no complaints, I would say they are going to be quality like mine.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Yeah, I don't get how things work over there either. It seems like Fasttech switched to a new supplier for some reason. Maybe Yinding couldn't keep up with all the demand or Fasttech went for a cheaper supplier to increase their profits. Lightmalls has been good with the Solarstorm X2, but it gave me a bum Solarstorm X3. 

For all we know, Gearbest might do the same thing in the future. If a light is good you have to jump on it before the supply dries up and a new cloner takes over.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Right now I see Dora really trying to get it right, so hopefully it will continue. I also understand from building the XT40 and X3 with her, that the supplier sometimes changes things beyond her knowledge as well.


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

Hi ledoman

Here are the pics:


























Thanks!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

jeanphi500, thanks for the pictures. Unfortunately there are still things that can't be seen under the coil. Why didn't you simply bent it upwards? You won't do any harm.
It is misterious to me there seems to be two groups of sense resistors. The set of three R250 in parallel has resistance 0.083 Ohm and the other with two R300 has resistance of 0.15 Ohm. Funny there are two Q1 and Q2, but can't see the chip beside.


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

Will bend it tonight and take additional pics


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

OK I think it should be ok now 









I did some experiments..
On the high setting, without any specific airflow and at room temperature the thermal protection kicks in after 2min30s
Current goes from 4.4 to 1.6A.

The consumption of the modes
high 4.4
mid 2.2
low 1.1

So it goes to a value between low and mid.

I did the same experiment with medium setting and thermal protection does not kick in (I stopped after about 15 min).
At that time, the light seems as hot as in the high mode when current decreased.
So you might be right in thinking it is related to some component that is too hot and too close to the thermistor.

I will borrow the Flir camera of my father in law to try to take a thermal picture of the components and see which component is the hottest...

Thanks for the help !


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Thanks, this is better now. LEDA chip is the one I wanted to see. Unfortunataly I don't see the thremistor as on some other circuits. On some others there is a thermistor a small black element similar to resistors but with no signs on it. Now I'm clueless. Sorry about that.

Let me try to calculate currents to the leds. So, the LEDA chip has 0.25V feedback voltage. Based on the sense resistors 0.25/0.083 = 3A and for other two 0.25/0.15 = 1.66A. 

Can you tell how the leds are connected. I can only see the leds are connected in series unless the white PCB is made different. You also didn't tell where did you measure the current - at led side or at input side from the batteries. If it's at battery side we would need also the coresponding voltages so we can calculate the input power.


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

I calculated the current drawn from the battery. Voltage was around 7.4v. Meaning on high it draws about 30w from the battery.

Will look if i can find how the leds are connected. I would bet they are in parallel.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

My Solarstorm X3 XML-U2 arrived from Gearbest in China today, finally. The battery is on to charge but I gave it quick blast on the darkened hall and the X3 is a lot brighter than the X2 lights I have. 

I've not opened it but I'll do a run-time test on it soon.


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

For the ones who have the X3 XML2 version, could you check if you have the same kind of driver as in the pics I posted a few days ago?

Thx!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

My SS X3 driver photos are in my Photobucket gallery here.

Here are a few posted:




































-Garry


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Haven't taken mine apart. I was sent a picture of it before the light arrived, hope this helps.


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

3 pics, 3 different drivers. Two of them wired differently. Each of you should check how the LEDs are connected (parallel, series, combination of the two)

Same story as from SS2X...it s like beta version forever


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Mine are wired in parallel. 2.48A on high pulled off a good 8.4v battery pack. Approx. 1.6A per emitter. 

-Garry


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Whenever I see that large round thing (inductor?) with the wire wrapped around it, I automatically think it's a fake.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Well your always going to have that large inductor coil on buck drivers (where voltage on the input side is higher than the output side). I personally think buck drivers with parallel LEDs are the way to go, at least on multi-LED bike lights.  

-Garry


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

On mine it is parallel too.

Current on high around 4.5A at 7.4V.
I borrowed a Flir heat camera. Will have a go at trying to find out which component heats the most. And see what temperature the body and parts get to.


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## jeanphi500 (Nov 5, 2014)

Finally got some time to try to make heat measurements...
Unfortunately, the Flir is not really made to take close up pics so they ar not sharp.. But still I could easily find out which parts were the hottest.

Here is a picture of the driver after a few minutes of operation (2 or 3).







I believe the hottest part to be the sense resistors. I measured up to 115 degrees C there before the thermal protection kicked in.
This does seem quite a lot to me actually...

The back of the LED PCB goes also hot, higher than 120 degrees C.








I applied some thermal paste to try to improve the heat transfer. Without any ventilation, the outside becomes quickly warm now. (50 degrees after a few minutes):








Ledoman, an idea if this is what you would expect?

(And btw I replaced the wires to the LEds as I managed to cut one that just sat in a screw path :-/


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Well, I'm not EE so can't tell. I would expect toroid and some FET (don't see any) would get the hottest.
Maybe you should enshure the clear metalic parts of driver should contact the housing very tight in order to take the heat away. I would use thermal compound at that parts, too. On the picture I've marked those areas with yellow. One is hidding under the toroid. Probably is not coincidence that those areas are near sense resistors and toroid. Take a look:


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