# Early Fisher Mt. Tam



## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

It's the first fillet brazed frameset I've managed to get my hands on....

I'm guessing between '85 and '87??? Serial # is 16T52TT.

It's a beauty, but I wish it was a bit bigger 









































































Steve


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

Ah, now I see why you asked me that question  nice find Steve. It looks like the same as the one I had. We never did determine the year on that on IIRC.

That looks like it will clean up pretty nicely..planning on repaint or just the cleanup and.leaving the patina? ..I vote for just the cleanup


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Very nice pick-up. I like those old fb Fishers.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Great find and it's in really nice shape. I would say those are underrated. I like that splined steerer tube.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

I think that rifling means the steerer is Columbus.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

bushpig said:


> I think that rifling means the steerer is Columbus.


Rifling would mean the grooves were spiralled, but I remember Columbus did offer something like that (SLX or STX?) and so did Miyata...


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

I am pretty sure those do spiral. The "X" in Columbus id'd rifling SP & SPX, SL and SLX


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

Ishiwata and Tange made steerers like that too. Theirs did not spiral at all.. It does have tange decals.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

bushpig said:


> I am pretty sure those do spiral.


Man, every time I move this stem up or down, it twists the bars, wtf?

Nice find Steve, but why buy bikes that aren't the right size? Just ties up funds for when the right one comes along....


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

All the Columbus steerers had the rifling. As far as the tubing *bushpig* is on the money. I used a bunch of the SL steerers in the past and that one looks just like them. Something you should know, if you don't already, is just because a frame has a sticker doesn't mean that's what it was made with.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

themanmonkey said:


> All the Columbus steerers had the rifling. As far as the tubing *bushpig* is on the money. I used a bunch of the SL steerers in the past and that one looks just like them. Something you should know, if you don't already, is just because a frame has a sticker doesn't mean that's what it was made with.


I've never seen one, do they spiral like rifling or are they just straight splines? And I assume it doesn't go all the way up so it's probably only on the bottom few inches of the steerer?


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I've never seen one, do they spiral like rifling or are they just straight splines? And I assume it doesn't go all the way up so it's probably only on the bottom few inches of the steerer?


FB,

Tried to get you a detail shot....










Splines only extend about 2" or so up in the steerer.

(I thought it looked cool too when I first saw it  )

I'm glad you guys liked this one.

MCS, I know it seems odd to buy a frame that isn't the right size, but honestly after watching, (and drooling), over all the fillet brazed beauties that get posted on this forum, I've been feeling a bit envious. So....when this frame popped up I was more interested in it for what it was, (an early frame, brazed by a well known builder, in a cool color, that happened to be in great shape, AND that I might be able to actually afford  ), so I plunked down a bid and went to work sure I would be outbid.
Suprisingly, (to me anyway), no one else bid and I got it for the minimum bid  .

So now I finally have a nice frame to run my fingers over like a soothing worrystone, and it will look nice on the wall in the meantime. 

cheers,

Steve


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

That was a joke. Sorry I forgot the lol after it. 



themanmonkey said:


> Something you should know, if you don't already, is just because a frame has a sticker doesn't mean that's what it was made with.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I've never seen one, do they spiral like rifling or are they just straight splines? And I assume it doesn't go all the way up so it's probably only on the bottom few inches of the steerer?


Ever so slight spiraling and only goes a few inches. It's basically lightening of the butt as seem in *eastcoaststeve*'s pic. I tried to TIG some of the tubing years ago and it was a PITA as the wall thickness kept changing. No one else did the spiraling that I ever saw.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

ckevlar said:


> That was a joke. Sorry I forgot the lol after it.


I was wondering since this forum seems to have the highest level of doubters in MTBR. Once you've striped enough paint or repaired enough frames you stop believing the decals.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

themanmonkey said:


> Ever so slight spiraling and only goes a few inches. It's basically lightening of the butt as seem in *eastcoaststeve*'s pic. I tried to TIG some of the tubing years ago and it was a PITA as the wall thickness kept changing. No one else did the spiraling that I ever saw.


thanks for the pic ECS. I would imagine the "rifled" mainframe tubing was heavy? Meant for bigger frames maybe? I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to road bikes in the 80s.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

*FB* actually it was the lighter tubing that used the rifling. SLX was SL with weight removed by way of the rifling and slightly shorter butts. SP and SPX was the same idea just starting with a heavier tube. TSX I think was the first tubeset that was its own thing I believe. I have the spec sheets around if anyone cares.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

themanmonkey said:


> *FB* actually it was the lighter tubing that used the rifling. SLX was SL with weight removed by way of the rifling and slightly shorter butts. SP and SPX was the same idea just starting with a heavier tube. TSX I think was the first tubeset that was its own thing I believe. I have the spec sheets around if anyone cares.


interesting. so we're talking about ~.6mm tubes with rifling - so I wonder what the thickness was on the thin part.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

.6 was the thin part. Off the top of my head SL was .8/.6/.8 and the rifling was in the .8 section. They did make a 6/4/6 tubing called KL I believe the Recrod tubeset was straight .4.


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

Looks like I got a crash course in tubing on this one...thanks.


What I'm really curious about though is when the frame was built, (I saw Stan's Tam thread and it seems it was never nailed down), ...do the decals help with a time frame?

Any Fisher experts hiding in the weeds?


I tried to e-mail TT, but no response as of yet.



Steve


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

If there is a sequential pattern, yours is earlier than 88? If it helps, mine is an 1988 same as the catalogue (yellow to green fade) and with different decals. Also built by Teesdale, but the seat junction is different--standard, w/o the wrapping seat stay accents. My serial looks to be 19T379.

LIke this:


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

My decals (headtube and seat tube) read : "Fisher" the same way, but "MountainBikes" below it. On the downtube the mountain ridge is a thinner line, and the upper portion of the "F" extends across the whole logo. I can snap a pic tomorrow.


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## drscience (Jan 2, 2008)

That frame should have been all Prestige tubing, steerer included, if you pull the fork the steerer will usually say Tange on it. Tange did have a rifled effect to the steerer tube just like Columbus but it was less pronounced. Your frame looks like a later TT with the correct later style decals, go to the Mombat site (mombat.org) and under bikes find the 1990 Bob Weir model and you will see the frame is the same style seat lug area and water bottle boss surrounds and has the same pump peg as this one. I would say this frame is something around there, maybe 1989-90 after 90 they started going with oversize head tubes, (I wouldn't count on the serial number being a good way to date the bike, I'm not sure Teesdale numbered them like that), hope this helps.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

*drscience* I've seen ribbed Tange tubing but never rifled. At this page of scans they mention the ribs, but it seems to only follow the line of the tubing. Also it mentioned that is was only on the Ultimate Ultrastrong top and downtubes. Maybe they did it before this catalog which seems late-'80s. Tange did a lot of weird stuff over the years and spiral steerers could heave existed at some time.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Here are some logo pics. If you do decide to build it up and want a SuedeTail saddle, I've got an extra.


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## Z-Man (Apr 25, 2005)

Urrrgh! A Music War...


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

yo-Nate-y said:


> Here are some logo pics. If you do decide to build it up and want a SuedeTail saddle, I've got an extra.


Nate, thanks for the pics, and the seat offer...I might just take you up on it.

I'm a bit confused on dating this one...serial # says early, wrapped seatstays look like a pic of a bike Gary is riding in '86, but paint says maybe later, (re-paint?).

I'm hoping to get a reply from Tom, but I'm not holding my breath, as I'm sure he has better things to do wit his time  .

Steve

ps what's the green e-stay behind te Fisher? Pics?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

yo-Nate-y said:


> Here are some logo pics. If you do decide to build it up and want a SuedeTail saddle, I've got an extra.


what's a SuedeTail saddle?


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

The green e-stay is a Brave Warrior.

Since you are asking, I assume I am mis-remembering. Ah, perhaps no suede, just Trail Tail? 
Wasn't that the name of Fisher's OEM saddle with two sueded leather strips on the back?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

yo-Nate-y said:


> The green e-stay is a Brave Warrior.
> 
> Since you are asking, I assume I am mis-remembering. Ah, perhaps no suede, just Trail Tail?
> Wasn't that the name of Fisher's OEM saddle with two sueded leather strips on the back?


I have no idea, but it probably wouldn't be right for this bike unless the frame said Gary Fisher on the side and made in Taiwan.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

You are right, he should totally try to find an Avocet Gelflex M-20 instead.


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

yo-Nate-y said:


> You are right, he should totally try to find an Avocet Gelflex M-20 instead.


Like this one? 










Steve


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

But the color matches that klein so well. What ever will you replace it with. I'm actually surprised that saddle is still going. Every time i see one now its always turned from a gel seat to a jello ride. Maybe put it up on the bay. With the way things are going its bound to be the next Kashimax Aero as far as value goes. lol The catalog does say Avocet saddle but I do not remember these coning with anything but leather Viscount made Fisher saddles. I could be wrong though.



eastcoaststeve said:


> Like this one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Z-Man said:


> Urrrgh! A Music War...


Q: Are we not men? Then we need bikes!

http://newhaven.craigslist.org/bik/1544105069.html


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## Z-Man (Apr 25, 2005)

The local indie theater screened it recently, hadn't seen it since I saw a very bad VHS copy at a friends BITD. I just found it on DVD though, some awesome performances, like Klaus Nomi...


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## morganfletcher (Jul 22, 2005)

Does it actually say "Mt. Tam" on the frame? I ask because they also had a fillet-brazed model call the "Competition". I used to sell both of them at Sausalito Cyclery in Sausalito, CA in the late 1980s. I think the Competition had shorter chain stays and lighter tubing. I remember Teesdale was the builder then. They also had different color schemes but Fisher would custom-paint them per customer request I think.

Funny story, while I'm typing. We had an assistant manager, Randy. Randy used to work at Fisher before coming to the shop. One of our mechanics was the illustrious Steve "Gravy" Gravenites. Randy was having some trouble with his Fisher Competition so he asked Gravy to look at it. (I forget what the problem was, maybe bb or crank related?) Gravy put the bike in the stand, pulled the seatpost and flipped the bike upside down and handfuls of Fisher press-in bottom bracket spindles spilled out, probably weighing 1/2 pound a piece. I think Randy must have made some friends in the shop at Fisher, where his bike was put together.

Morgan

P.S. It's surreal to see stuff on here that's "vintage" that I remember being new and current. It's even weirder to see stuff that is later called "vintage". I know it's all about perspective but it's weird. Of course the stuff before my time is legitimately "vintage" to me.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Z-Man said:


> The local indie theater screened it recently, hadn't seen it since I saw a very bad VHS copy at a friends BITD. I just found it on DVD though, some awesome performances, like Klaus Nomi...


It comes on VH1 classic from time to time. Makes me chuckle a bit. Ah, my highschool years.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

The spindle story is hilarious.

And the Klaus Nomi documentary that came out a couple years back is worth checking out!


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

morganfletcher said:


> Does it actually say "Mt. Tam" on the frame? I ask because they also had a fillet-brazed model call the "Competition". I used to sell both of them at Sausalito Cyclery in Sausalito, CA in the late 1980s. I think the Competition had shorter chain stays and lighter tubing. I remember Teesdale was the builder then. They also had different color schemes but Fisher would custom-paint them per customer request I think.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Morgan, Thanks for the info...except now I'm even more lost
> ...


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

eastcoaststeve said:


> Prestige stickers on both frame and fork, (although TMM thought they might not be accurate).


Just to be clear I'm only questioning the steerer, not the whole tubeset. My comments were more of a general don't believe everything you read.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

eastcoaststeve said:


> How do I know if my rear brake studs are for roller cams or a U-brake?
> 
> Chainstays are about 16.25".
> 
> Steve


If they're U brake bosses they'll have a "U" stamped on them... and "RC" stamped on them if for roller cams.  Kidding. There is no difference between the two.

Stays should be closer to 17" I would guess. 16.25 is pretty short.


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## sq_root_of_2 (Sep 7, 2008)

Nice bike good find and nice to ride

Here some info on mine. Bought in the UK in 1988

Frame: 1988 Fisher Mt Tam - Tange Prestige
Serial #: 18T169 TET
Fork: Fisher Tange
Rims: Araya - R20
Hubs: Shimano Deore XT
Quick Release: Shimano Deore XT
Tires: Fisher FatTrax 2.2
Pedals: Shimano Deore XT
Crank: Shimano Biopace 46,36,26
Chain: Shimano
Rear Cogs: Shimano
Bottom Bracket: Shimano
Front Derailleur: Shimano Deore XT
Rear Derailleur: Shimano Deore XT
Shifters: Shimano Deore XT
Handlebars: Fisher Bulge
Grips: Grab On
Stem: Fisher
Headset: Shimano 600
Brake set: Shimano Deore XT
Brake levers: Shimano
Saddle: Fisher (original Avocet Gel in storage)
Seat Post: Suntour XC with Hite Rite Spring
Paint: Dark and Light Blue Fade
Size: 18"


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

Fillet-brazed said:


> If they're U brake bosses they'll have a "U" stamped on them... and "RC" stamped on them if for roller cams.  Kidding. There is no difference between the two.


FB, thanks for the laugh  . I guess I was hoping a roller cam boss was mounted at a different point than a u-brake boss, so that I could narrow down the frame ID from the Fisher chart..oh well, back to the drawing board.

Sro2, that bike is a beauty.
I wish there was some sort of Fisher serial # registery to see if the serial #'s are sequential by age...

Steve


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## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

Teesdale frame.


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

Just for fun, started scrounging around the garage for some parts. I'm thinking I'd like to keep the build somewhat period, but purposeful. Nothing to nice or shiny, since it's likely to get ridden a bit  .

Dirty, nasty parts should make for a nice start:
(yes, I plan on cleaning and polishing everything before I bolt it on the frame  ).










Steve


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)

eastcoaststeve said:


> It's the first fillet brazed frameset I've managed to get my hands on....
> 
> I'm guessing between '85 and '87??? Serial # is 16T52TT.
> 
> ...


Hey ECS,

Whatever happened with this project?
Did you ever figure out what year?


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

CCMDoc said:


> Hey ECS,
> 
> Whatever happened with this project?
> Did you ever figure out what year?


Doc, thanks for digging up this post...was wondering how long I'd had the frame.

Not sure why it never got built...something else must have popped up and distracted me, and then it just got back burnered from there.
It's cool now though, have a new home in line for it with someone who will finish it up and get it dirty. 

Steve


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## ddross62 (Mar 12, 2013)

*86*

I have an 87 TT and it is very similar. Logo is slightly different and the brace at the chainstay just behind the Bottom Bracket is done a bit differently but all else seems identical. The seat stay treatment at the seat tube is identical. I say it's an 86. Let me know if you ever found out.



eastcoaststeve said:


> Doc, thanks for digging up this post...was wondering how long I'd had the frame.
> 
> Not sure why it never got built...something else must have popped up and distracted me, and then it just got back burnered from there.
> It's cool now though, have a new home in line for it with someone who will finish it up and get it dirty.
> ...


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