# The eAR



## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

I have been primarily a mtb'r the last 30+ yrs. and never really got in to road riding. When I started fooling around putting small engines on bicycles in Crested Butte in 2000 I discovered that dirt and low use paved road riding can be fun if you pedal along in conjunction with the motor, in the big ring btw. :thumbsup:

Having followed the motorized bicycle for the last 16 years I have formed options about what works for me and what doesn't. The only problem is that it has taken a lot of building and testing along the way to get to where I am today with the concept of e bikes and motorized bicycles in general.

Even though I was sampling high altitude single track and snowmobile trails years ago I still prefer my mtb for trail riding thank you very much. But where I live now it is a car ride to the nearest trail system and I don't always get excited to get in my car enough to go as much as I should. So I end up just poking around til I get sweaty and then come home, which is ok, but there is always better.

After resurrecting my ICE Flatbed bike I started thinking about building an e bike that would be right for any of the road surface. I had a KTM at the time and was getting my jollies out road wise on that but after selling it I decided it was time.

Got the parts sourced and picked up a $600 Bikes Distress gravé bike that had the TCS rims even. The motor is a Grin Tech spec 9c+ 1000w (legal here in the OR) front hub direct drive with a 52v 11.6ah Dolphin battery (600+ah), 35A Grin Tech controller and Cycle Analyst. Throttle only. You may ask why but let's just say that is what works best for me based on my trying everything else out there. Do I care that for some reason the industry has made throttles in to the devils instrument. Nope.

Doing a kit takes time to get things together. Took me two trips to town and a casual day (with swimming time, it's hot). The throttle was the thinking part because it was made to fit a 22.2 bar, not a road bar. I went and soaked in the river for awhile and thought about it and came up with a solution that is going to work quite well. Which was what my 2nd trip to town was about. $3 in parts at the bike store and a $.50 washer from ACE and some zip ties did the deed. I didn't get a good picture of it but will post one later.

The first thing I need to do is get a bigger than 112" gear (44/11), not a lot but some. About 30 (not legal here in the OR) pedaling starts to feel vague. I have a Schlumpf High Speed drive that I will put on there when I get my tool back to chamfer the shell for it which should do the trick. And a front brake because I couldn't get the Tektro one supplied to mate up to the disc on the hub motor. But I have set the regen so that it will act like a brake in the meantime.

Jason at ebikes.ca has done a lot of work with the hub motor that is on this bike. The last direct drive motor that was on my moto bob, a Golden Motor 1000w, had a lot of parasitic drag. This one is hardly noticeable and has Statorade inside that helps to keep things cool.

The way a hub motor is wound dictates whether it has torque with little top end or a little of both or top end and not as much torque. Torque helps to get off the line which is one of the biggest benefits of riding an e bike in traffic, makes stopping at stop signs fun instead of running them, and although this was is wound more for speed it has plenty to assist from a stop if *you* are in the right gearing supply the low end torque.

The mixture of pavé, gravé and cow trails that I rode today after getting it together felt just about right. The power doesn't seem to be too much for the chassis, shifting on the fly is easy peasy and done at my cadence, not what the bike is telling me my cadence should be which is my basic problem with PAS. It flat out rocks out (the CA was saying 45kmh) on gravé with 30 psi in the tubed wire bead 40c WTB Nano's but I am going to go tubeless when all those parts arrive. Will have to ghetto the front Rhino Lite (36h tubeless ready rims outside of Chibon ones are impossible to source, believe me) Even riding on the back 40 ruts and other various pitfalls went ok, on the pavé I could dog cars that had passed me for quite aways. Gotta get a good rearview mirror setup tomorrow though.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Why did you go with a front hub instead of rear? Because of terrible roads around here, I end up bunny hopping surprise pot holes on my road bike as much as I do on my mountain bike, that extra weight up front would give me the willies.


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## ImaBum (Jun 1, 2014)

Looks like a solid bike!! I like it! 

Do you have a youtube page or videos?


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

BW, great conversion; is that a carbon fork; no torque arm?


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

fos'l said:


> BW, great conversion; is that a carbon fork; no torque arm?


Carbon fork yes. Torque arm yes, it's on the disc side. Big washers on both sides of the dropout, yes. I am keeping an eye on it.

Still holding after 20 miles of riding here today. 26.6 avg. spd. on a mix of country road, hiwy and neighborhood pavé.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Harryman said:


> Why did you go with a front hub instead of rear? Because of terrible roads around here, I end up bunny hopping surprise pot holes on my road bike as much as I do on my mountain bike, that extra weight up front would give me the willies.


Having ridden both, on I am sure equally as bad roads, I prefer the front hub. I also swerve a lot, well not in traffic, but usually can avoid the tank traps. Also because the wheel is under power it climbs out of holes well, kind of like Front or AWD, and it is more like the rear end takes the bigger ratio of the hit. At least that was what I experienced riding it this a.m. to my kids place. To watch the MTB races which weren't telecast.

Also enables me to have the option of loading up the rear end with stuff without the tale wagging the dog. It is very comfortable to ride. You do kind of get the willies at around 35 though. But they are happy ones.


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

I would never ever never have a front hub motor never , and I will add you will break that front fork with that DD motor .put that hub motor in to a MTX down hill rim on the back add some Holy Rollers front n back then shock that puppy with a Lunna Cycles 74v 11AH battery which will double your range that you are now getting .


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Not sure how my range would double if I up the volts (more power) and decrease the ah's (less in the tank). 

If you have never ever never ridden a front hub motor how do you know these evil things will transpire and that there may be some benefit doing it this way for some people and they know what they are doing? For a road bike they work just fine. I am not interested in emtb's, although I could build a really good one if I wanted to. But I would ride just about anything offered to me to see how it works instead of taking what other internuts tell me as gospel.


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

My apogees I missed that this is a rd bike but you say you get the willies around 35 that's pretty fast for a e bike , I know from being on the e bike forums that there is front fork failures using the front hub motors . And you are using a carbon front fork right?? front hub motors are mostly used in lower speed steel forks low end bikes , at the speed you are running over 30 think what would happen if you had a fork failure ? it could be deadly . Do some research on front e hubs look on the Endless sphere e bike forms maybe post this question there , I know what answers you will get about this trust me you are underestimating the dangers of using the front hub with a carbon fork. The higher volts you use not only do you get more power or watts but as a side benefit it you also can go father on the same AH battery . You have a nice build very clean but I am more than a little concerned using the front hub in a carbon fork .


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

If this was a high torque winding motor I wouldn't use this fork. It is a high speed winding so the initial startup, which is when torque causes the axle to stress the dropouts and is the #1 cause of failure not them breaking in half as i think you are imagining, is much less and there is a good torque arm setup that will keep that from happening and I as the principal rider am aware of what I am doing and will keep an eye on it as I said. This same motor with some improvements including a through axle is what I am waiting for and will upgrade to when it is made available. 

I have been a member of Endless Sphere for 13 yrs. and check in there once a week to see what is up. I know the risks and also the ways to alleviate them. And you missed the road part because most people on here only read about half of what is written or it is a comprehension issue of some sort before they start with their drama, it has been going on for years. e bikes are not all about mtb'ing and shouldn't be but that is the direction that the industry is pimping and I am over the posts of people arguing about it and thought I would post something that was in a more positive direction as in an interesting way of using the existing network of roads that allow motor vehicles. While my setup does have the ability to break the law speed wise I am smart enough to not exploit that, much like I am in a car/truck that is able to go much faster than speed limits allow for the last 46 yrs. with only 3 speeding tickets.

"The higher volts you use not only do you get more power or watts but as a side benefit it you also can go father on the same AH battery" 

This is not true, more power eats watts faster per AH and you will get less distance.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Bigwheel said:


> Having ridden both, on I am sure equally as bad roads, I prefer the front hub. I also swerve a lot, well not in traffic, but usually can avoid the tank traps. Also because the wheel is under power it climbs out of holes well, kind of like Front or AWD, and it is more like the rear end takes the bigger ratio of the hit. At least that was what I experienced riding it this a.m. to my kids place. To watch the MTB races which weren't telecast.
> 
> Also enables me to have the option of loading up the rear end with stuff without the tale wagging the dog. It is very comfortable to ride. You do kind of get the willies at around 35 though. But they are happy ones.


Interesting, thanks for the explanation.


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

Sorry I mistook you for a noobe with your choice of front hub something I would never do good luck to you


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Probably a good thing. And try actually reading to comprehend as you might have figured out that I am not a "noob" from my first post.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Stats from today's 35 miler. Mixture of pavé, gravé and cowtrail (all totally legal), and oh yeah, headwinds. Avg. speed includes dinking around on the ct using no power. Except for the odd blip as because the front end is a little porky all you have to do is blip the throttle and it will climb right over and when it hits the other side give it another and it will pull you right over. The bike pedaled just fine for the speed I wanted to travel.









My objective with e bikes is to get as low a wh/mile as I can for the result that I want. Pedaling along in sync with the motor is what dictates this but is affected by how fast you want to go. Yesterday's full throttle ride was 21 and I have gotten as low as 11 with another system but it didn't have the top end that this one has.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

I had been planning on using a Schlumpf High Speed drive that i have for this bike but I had to wait for my bb chamfering tool to get back to me. Got it today and it went together a lot faster than the first time I did the operation. The chamfer is what interfaces with the shell of the drive that keeps it from rotating. Anyway all went well until I discovered that one of the crank arms pedal holes was stripped. I robbed one off another bike until I can get some on order I guess.

The Schlumpf did exactly what I wanted. It provides me with a more suitable high range. Getting rid of the front derailleur is also a plus because it was a really cheap one that didn't work that well. It mates up with the 8spd and now I am using larger cogs in the cassette with a better chainline so chain life should be better also.

I also got some WTB Riddler 45c tires that I was planning on setting up tubeless but forgot to get the rim tape and only the back rim is tubeless ready and I would have to ghetto the front so I just said screw it and went with some stubes I had. Doesn't seem to affect the ride any but I won't know until I go tubeless later. I am still able to run 30psi which eats gravel and still rolls well on pavement.

Gotta get my lights out and thinking about fenders, I live in Oregon where 10 people fell of their bikes and drowned last year, but will have to see what will fit. There is still some room even with the 45c tires.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Mirror? The the mirr- cycle bar end mirror. Fits in the left bar end, works well.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

There is already a mirror in that position visible in the picture, which mtbr decided to place that way not me btw. Toying with the idea of one on the right side of my helmet also but I usually ride in unpopulated areas so traffic is light for the most part. Last nights 20 miler only one car passed me going in my direction.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

rider95 said:


> Sorry I mistook you for a noobe with your choice of front hub something I would never do good luck to you


You really should just stop. You look like a fool(again)


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Have over 350 miles of pretty varied road conditions along with some legal trail riding, which on a rigid bike with 45c tires has not been all that radical.

One thing I have been looking for is a frame bag and I found one today at a shop in Gunny called Double Shot Cycles. Good folks. See if you can find it in the picture 

View attachment 1093055


The biggest improvement that I made today was finally finding a front brake caliper that I could make work, after 3 hours and 2 trips to the hardware store even though I was working in the backyard of a fully equipped bike shop called Rock and Roll Sports, with a shout out to Jefe and Big Buddy Bear Davemo for all the help in pointing out where the tools were and putting up with me. Big help on the dh. Which I immediately put to the test.

I started from the park by where I used to live and rode up Cement Creek Rd. to the top of Reno Divide. Starts out mellow then there is a pretty challenging double track climb that is rutted and loose with rocks and water bars.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

So after 400+ miles now on this bike. The most recent 100+ were put on at altitude in CO.. The bike performs great on all surfaces and is a blast to ride. I did a 40 mile ride topping out at 12,700 on my Willits dingle speed last weekend, which isn't e, and I found that although I live at sea level the miles I put on with the Any Road prepared me very well for that experience.









The biggest benefit, besides the fact that I got to see what I wanted to see in a timely fashion that allowed me time to catch up with old friends, was that I found that I could control my energy output much better due to the fact that I have been riding at the edge of my red zone on the e bike and knew when to go and when to blow and only went over the top a few times on the long climb to the pass. Sucking wind at altitude is no fun btw.

Top speed to date downhill on pavement with a tailwind and no motor is 45.5mph and I am averaging 21 wh/mi. and an average speed of 22mph.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

BW, impressive; wife and I start at sea level in the AM and drive to about 8K; !.5 hours), then ride to 9.5K and I thought that was pretty good, but doesn't compare to what you do.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Pearl pass is a *****, I've ridden it a couple of times.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

On my way home and stopped in the Alvord for a few more days of hot springing and riding. Big difference here from CO. in that there is the ability to ride for miles and not see anyone, for me at least. 

Did a 29 mile ride today around the edge of the playa. The outermost edge of the playa following all the little ins is supposedly 35 miles so I fudged a bit. The first 20+ miles I held to a 22 mph speed using no more than 300w. So I figure that averaging 22 on flat ground I can go around 55 miles on my 650wh battery. But after figuring that out I let it rip for the last bit which dropped my wh/mi average from 13 to 19 with the same amount of pedaling effort pretty consistent for the whole ride. 

And yes Harryman PP is a pretty much push and ride especially on my single speed but it was a tour organized by the Crested Butte Klunker Collection honoring the 49th anniversary. I had ridden it once before when I lived in CB and knew what I was in for but it was hard to pass up the good time that ensued! I have to admit that the old Willits did pretty well on the baby scree road bed down to the Roaring Fork.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

First time ever picking up a rock and having it jam in the fork going down an old mining road in the Steens Mtns.. All is ok except I aggravated a rib injury I got last spring high siding my mtb and landing with my elbow stuck in there and the front wheel is still true even. And the fork is fine also and holding up well considering what I am putting it through.









I have it on video but can't get that to post.


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