# 1120g disc brake wheels!



## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

After much waiting for all the parts to arrive, I finally got the rims yesterday! I couldn't wait, and started lacing them up right away. Final weigh was 1120 grams for the pair, with 6-bolt hubs and 32 spokes pr wheel.

Hubs: Extralite UltraHubs SPD with Hybrid Cermaic Bearings. 292g
Spokes: Pillar 1722 3x, with 1422 radial on the right side front.
Rims: NoTubes Race 2007 278g + 281g (with stickers they weigh 282 and 285 on my scale - I've kept the stickers on but might remove them.)

I weighed the wheels on a scale that shows my Extralite E-Bones to weigh 500g, so the weight of the wheels should be very acurate.

Pics to come later, when I've tensioned the wheels up.

I've raced on a similar but oh so heavy version (1209g  ) of these wheels last season, using Race 2006-rims at 297g plus stickers, and Sapim Race spokes. The new 2007 rims are slightly wider, and made from 7000 series aluminum, a world first according to NoTubes. Hopefully, the new wheels will be stiff enough, I had no problems with the old ones. My only concern is with the titanium spokes, but a guy who builds a lot of sub-kilo road wheels with half as many spokes says I should have no problem since I use 32 of them. I weigh 81kg/180lbs


Ole.


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## Light-Bikes (Apr 5, 2007)

Ole said:


> Pics to come later, when I've tensioned the wheels up.


:thumbsup:


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## Kayba (May 24, 2006)

Impressive! I am considering a pair of the new DT Carbon rims but I am still not sure if it's a good idea given the huge price tag.
How do you like those Extralite hubs? Are they durable?
Kayba


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

Kayba said:


> Impressive! I am considering a pair of the new DT Carbon rims but I am still not sure if it's a good idea given the huge price tag.
> How do you like those Extralite hubs? Are they durable?
> Kayba


The Extralite-hubs have exeeded my expectations. The latest version has stronger pawls than my two years old 1.gen, and should be even better. But they do need some lovin' at least once every year if used for racing only. The bearings are small, so they wear faster than the large bearings of heavier hubs.

Ole.


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

Sorry, double post.

Ole.


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

Very nice! Then I looked up the prices of Extralite hubs and thought Ouch!


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

womble said:


> Very nice! Then I looked up the prices of Extralite hubs and thought Ouch!


Ouch indeed! But they are the lightest ones out there, even lighter than Tune Prince/Princess, and they actually work!

Ole.


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

Amazing! Post 'em pix pls? TIA!


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## Cranked (Jun 1, 2006)

Great weight, if not the best ever? I remember your last set and could barely believe it, and you've topped it again. Can you shoot some pics of your full bike, with that much time, enegry and cash invested in the wheels alone, it must be a really special ride. Thanks.


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## gal (Jan 23, 2004)

*wheelset*

super light!
why you didn't order build set fro Extralite?
I'm waiting for a set from Sergio,


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

gal said:


> super light!
> why you didn't order build set fro Extralite?
> I'm waiting for a set from Sergio,


I get the Race 2007 rims directly from NoTubes, and when I first startet planning the project, it wasn't clear if Sergio would offer these rims. And I prefer to do the building myself, then I know I get the quality I want.

Ole.


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## notenoughtime (Sep 7, 2004)

I was under the impression that notubes was offering that rim as wheelset only. Are you sponsored by them?


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## Mike B. (Feb 21, 2004)

Wheelset only in the US. Ole is across the pond.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Mike B. said:


> Wheelset only in the US. Ole is across the pond.


why do you only offer that stuff overseas? it seems that europe offers all
the cool stuff and we don't see any of it, which wasnt an issue when the euro
was weaker than the dollar.


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## notenoughtime (Sep 7, 2004)

That seems to make no sense, especially when they're based in NY right? I understand when a US company only wants to keep special items in the US, and then some European country wants to keep something exclusive over there, but I don't get when the US company only sells it worldwide, and not here. Maybe it has to do with some safety regs...


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## felipedana (Aug 23, 2007)

and why isn't the RACE on notubes.com website? or am I missing something?


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

*Pictures!*


































































Ole.


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## AggieXCRacer (Oct 10, 2005)

Nice.


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## Motomatt (Sep 8, 2007)

Very very nice!


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

Very awesome.

I'm 85kilos and thinking about a new wheelset for rim brakes with pillar ti spokes.

I have a set of EL hubs perhaps they are the first version but I don't like how the freewheel body slides against the hub shell. It's just a self lubricating plastic I believe. So when you tighten it down it causes friction when coasting and this can cause slack in the chain. They recommend a very low torque setting to prevent this but there is still a little friction. If anybody has any further info on this I would love to hear it! 

Otherwise, they are holding up very well. The body interface with the cassette has held up a little better than my tune has/had. While the photo may look bad to some the DA cassette was easier to get off than with my tunes.

This makes me want to get some nutty wheels but that are also durable. I think the rim on my EL wheelset may be the weak spot but it's also only 28 spokes.


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## Mike B. (Feb 21, 2004)

peabody said:


> why do you only offer that stuff overseas? it seems that europe offers all
> the cool stuff and we don't see any of it, which wasnt an issue when the euro
> was weaker than the dollar.


A couple reasons for doing wheels only in the US. I won't get into all of the details but if it made sense logistically, Europe and the rest of the world would be getting wheels only too.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Mike B. said:


> A couple reasons for doing wheels only in the US. I won't get into all of the details but if it made sense logistically, Europe and the rest of the world would be getting wheels only too.


Mike,

So there is no chance on getting these rims? Even if a well established recognized wheel builder purchased them for a custom build .


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## Mike B. (Feb 21, 2004)

Honestly, I can think of only one that Stan would likely be willing to send rims to but I don't see that happening for a while. Of course, I can't read his mind either so I'll not name names. When we first started offering rims, they weren't available to other builders in the US so this is really no different. Eventually, they were released for all to use of course.

There would certainly be no stopping anyone from buying them from a European source and bringing them back to the US but that can't be cheap. Ole just happened to be one of the first to receive rims but there will be others before too long.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Mike B. said:


> A couple reasons for doing wheels only in the US. I won't get into all of the details but if it made sense logistically, Europe and the rest of the world would be getting wheels only too.


well obviously the rims are coming from somewhere near china so it is probably easier
to just have some dropped of in europe, plus all the "warranty" claims here in the US
probably scares you away from having people build their own here.


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## the remery (Jan 2, 2007)

re first to use 7000 series Alu...Hardly! Araya RM 395 teams -a very funky double eyeletted uber-rim from the 90's hit a genuine 397g per rim , but with truly remarkable strength, using 7000 alu. I finally onsold my old RM 395 team/ tnt/wheelsmith wheel to a fellow weightweenie the other day....if I could have found a second one...I'd have built a set again! In my opinion, massively superior to the dominant rim (mavic 217's and 517's) of the day (just my opinion, of course).


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

Slobberdoggy said:


> I have a set of EL hubs perhaps they are the first version but I don't like how the freewheel body slides against the hub shell. It's just a self lubricating plastic I believe. So when you tighten it down it causes friction when coasting and this can cause slack in the chain. They recommend a very low torque setting to prevent this but there is still a little friction. If anybody has any further info on this I would love to hear it!


The plastic glide rings are actually quite igenuious. They are not rotating when you pedal and put a lot of load on them, but they rotate when you coast. The outer ring comes in three tolerances, and there were some problems with getting the correct tolerances on the first hubs. If your hub is tight because of this, it's probably a good idea to perform a level two maintenance and change the glide rings for the best tolerance.

Now, there's also the matter of the huge seal between the hub and the freehub. You can change the contact force of the seal by putting on either a thin, a tick, or both, plastic spacers between the axle and the main hub body. With more spacers, you get less friction, but also less sealing. If you ride in mud a lot, I suggest running it tight. On a road bike, run it as loose as possible. Also, adding a drop of chain lube to the seal when you lube the chain cuts down on friction.

Ole.e


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

Ole said:


> The plastic glide rings are actually quite igenuious. They are not rotating when you pedal and put a lot of load on them, but they rotate when you coast.


Just to clarify for others. When you say they are rotating or not rotating, that's within relationship to one another. So when you are coasting the hub is spinning but the freewheel (obviously) is not moving so the plastic is sliding against the hub.

When you pedal they are in sync and there is not friction between the two. I say this last bit just to point out that it is when you are coasting when there is a little unfortunate drag for me however when pedaling it's like any other hub.

I did not know that about the seal spacers, nice to know. Does yours have the elastomer springs on the pawls? I had heard they switched to that over the metal springs.

Considering everything I'm very happy with mine 1196 grams for mine (spec. 1190). I might lace mine to some stronger rims some day - I forget what rims they are now (on my stock wheels from el). I fear some bike shops don't have the expertise to build such wheels. When a spoke or two went loose on mine they said all they had to do was tighten those two up and they informed me that my spokes were aero spokes that needed to be aligned too (duh


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

Slobberdoggy said:


> Just to clarify for others. When you say they are rotating or not rotating, that's within relationship to one another. So when you are coasting the hub is spinning but the freewheel (obviously) is not moving so the plastic is sliding against the hub.
> 
> When you pedal they are in sync and there is not friction between the two. I say this last bit just to point out that it is when you are coasting when there is a little unfortunate drag for me however when pedaling it's like any other hub.


The drag is mostly from the seal, not from the plastic glide rings. That's why I suggested doing a level 2 service, to make sure you have the correct tolerances. My 1.gen hubs were too tight, but became a lot better with a thinner outer glide ring.



Slobberdoggy said:


> Does yours have the elastomer springs on the pawls? I had heard they switched to that over the metal springs.


The hubs I built up two years ago have the titanium pawls with steel springs. They have changed to steel pawls with an o-ring acting as the spring. Stronger than the titanium pawls, but you need to change out the entire freehub, it's a different design entirely. There's been a few failures of the titanium pawls, they are just a bit too soft for MTB use. The new hubs I've built have the new design.

Ole.


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## ferny (Sep 18, 2005)

Notubes Rims + Ti Sopkes = stiffnes wheels.

So, your wheels are very pretty...


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## krystian xtc (Jun 17, 2005)

yes, this is right


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## sebastian21 (Apr 26, 2005)

Does anyone know where to get those spokes here int he US?


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## appleduc (May 6, 2007)

How much kilo's have you put on the spokes?

YH


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

appleduc said:


> How much kilo's have you put on the spokes?
> 
> YH


I don't know, actually, because my measuring tool doesn't do bladed titanium very well. So I go by feel, and visual deflection of the material around the spoke holes. So far so good, stiffness seems on par with my 1209g wheelset.

I'm not quite happy with the amount of elongation I've gotten from the rear left side spokes, so I'm considering re-building that side with 1.4mm instead of 1.7mm bladed spokes. That should also save another 20g or so.

Ole.


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## wheelhot (Jan 6, 2006)

sweet wheelset ole! congrats, how much did it cost ya?


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## appleduc (May 6, 2007)

Actually, I think that a "perfect" wheelset should be set to a specific tension on the spokes depending rider weight and material used! I experienced that only a light wheelset can do more harm then a light (ca 1350gr) but also stiff and perfectly made set.
Building wheels is craftsmanship. I rode with lightweight wheels and then other lightweight wheels made by a really good wheelbuilder and all I can see is that the difference is HUGE!!! Accelaration is the main difference you feel + also less maintenance....anyway just my 2 cents. I do like your wheels, don't misunderstand but sometimes I would love to ride different lightweight wheels made by different persons to feel the difference!


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## chrism (Jan 27, 2004)

appleduc said:


> Actually, I think that a "perfect" wheelset should be set to a specific tension on the spokes depending rider weight and material used! I experienced that only a light wheelset can do more harm then a light (ca 1350gr) but also stiff and perfectly made set.
> Building wheels is craftsmanship. I rode with lightweight wheels and then other lightweight wheels made by a really good wheelbuilder and all I can see is that the difference is HUGE!!! Accelaration is the main difference you feel + also less maintenance....anyway just my 2 cents. I do like your wheels, don't misunderstand but sometimes I would love to ride different lightweight wheels made by different persons to feel the difference!


You're totally wrong - optimum spoke tension depends only on the components used, and not at all on the rider weight or usage.

Building wheels is actually a science, not a craft, and I'd suggest anybody who says otherwise probably isn't that good a wheelbuilder. Meanwhile given the same components, a badly built wheel would be totally indistinguishable from a perfect one in normal riding (so long as the badly built wheel isn't so bad that it is falling apart).


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## dennis rides Scott (Mar 3, 2005)

The belgian importer told me that on these rims Stans give no garantuee. This is maybe why the aren't available on the american market.


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## more tech please. (Aug 19, 2007)

chrism said:


> Building wheels is actually a science, not a craft, and I'd suggest anybody who says otherwise probably isn't that good a wheelbuilder. Meanwhile given the same components, a badly built wheel would be totally indistinguishable from a perfect one in normal riding (so long as the badly built wheel isn't so bad that it is falling apart).


wrong. Wheelbuilding is less of a science than any other part of the bike. I've built hundreds of wheels, and the one common denominator is that every wheel is different. each wheel has it's own characteristics and the real skill is identifying these, addressing them and building a perfect wheel. If wheelbuilding was a science than machines could build them better than us. also........ti spokes are the most senseless thing you can do for anyone planning on actually riding the wheel. there are way more items in the minus column. If you disagree, get back to me after you've raced a season on them.


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## sebastian21 (Apr 26, 2005)

here is a picture of my set

ZTR race 7000 series


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## wheelhot (Jan 6, 2006)

what hub are you running?


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## more tech please. (Aug 19, 2007)

sebastian21 said:


> here is a picture of my set
> 
> ZTR race 7000 series


wheels can be pretty light without the axle and hardware.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

more tech please. said:


> wheels can be pretty light without the axle and hardware.


Agreed.

On the minus side you could take out the valve stem.


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## appleduc (May 6, 2007)

Spot on man!!


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

more tech please. said:


> wrong. Wheelbuilding is less of a science than any other part of the bike. I've built hundreds of wheels, and the one common denominator is that every wheel is different. each wheel has it's own characteristics and the real skill is identifying these, addressing them and building a perfect wheel. If wheelbuilding was a science than machines could build them better than us. also........ti spokes are the most senseless thing you can do for anyone planning on actually riding the wheel. there are way more items in the minus column. If you disagree, get back to me after you've raced a season on them.


actually it is a science. so your saying the layup of carbon fiber in a part isn't science
since a machine can't do it better.....or at all.


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## zooford (Dec 20, 2006)

probably a lefty-compatible hub?


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## sebastian21 (Apr 26, 2005)

yes the front wheel, its a Lefty Hub


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## Baltazar (Jan 30, 2004)

so the hub axle is integrated in the fork, and in the forks weights.


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## more tech please. (Aug 19, 2007)

peabody said:


> actually it is a science. so your saying the layup of carbon fiber in a part isn't science
> since a machine can't do it better.....or at all.


"less a science". Sure it's scientific. But if you have a hundred of the same wheels...and you build them all with the exact same specs on tension and direction they will not all come out the same. Why? because anytime to mate three different parts, one of which uses tension pulling from different angles.....there will be variables.


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

How can I obtain a set of the Stans ZTR Race rims or custom wheelset?


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

*1091g disc brake wheels!*

I have now replaced the left side Pillar 1722 spokes on the rear wheel with the thinner Pillar 1422. They are 14mm by 22mm. On my scale, these spokes were 14g ligher. I also removed the stickers, removing another 3g. Strangely, this added up to 1105g on my scale at home (it should be 1103: 1120g - 14g - 3g = 1103g), indicating that something isn't right with my scale. I took the wheels to the post office today, and they weighed *1091g* on a calibrated scale! Success, I broke the 1100g limit!

The wheels feel surprisingly stiff in the wheel building jig, but I have no idea how they'll perform on the racecourse. I hope to have my new racebike ready by thursday, then I can finally take the wheels out for a spin. With studded tires no less!

Ole.


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Hey Ole, are your wheels still running strong?


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

They certainly are! I'm doing another race on them tomorrow.

But now that Sabine Spitz won the women's Olympic XC on 1083g wheels, I've got some work to do! 

Ole.


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## wheelhot (Jan 6, 2006)

> But now that Sabine Spitz won the women's Olympic XC on 1083g wheels, I've got some work to do!


Lol, what wheels was she running? 1kg wheels is very light.


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

She was running modified Tune Prince/Princess, and special 265g versions of the Race 7000 rim. I've just ordered full ceramic bearings for my hubs, that alone should bring the weight down 15-20g. I'm also considering going for round 2.0 spokes on the high tension sides, that should also save 20g or so over the 2.2/2.2x1.7/2.0 spokes I have now, with very little loss in stiffness and balance. If I can get rims in the 265g range, I should save another 30g. And that's still 20g away from sub1kg. 

I could go for the lightest, bladed spokes all around, but then I'll loose a lot of the vertical balance of the wheel, and I don't want that. It might work for a lighter rider, but not for my 80kg body...

Ole


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## Paul Crawford (Aug 28, 2008)

Man, oh, MAN!!! You guys with your light-as-fluff wheels!!! Oh! 

Ya scare me. Seriously. I understand the concern for rotating mass at an excess, but there is this sort of point of reality, where you have a wheelset so light that it whips around and flexes, snaps spokes on hard hits, and just doesn't hold up, ultimately. 

A machine made wheel can exceed the perfection of a man made wheel. It takes machinery that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, AND will only make a good wheel when used with the rims, spokes, nipples, hubs, lubricant, and threadlocking compound that was programmed into it, and it will fail when parts are flawed. This is why the human hand is more trustworthy. We can see a bad spoke. We can tell when threads are bad. We don't just keep cranking down on this stuff. A machine will continue to incorrectly build a wheel when these flaws are present. I see why this sparked a little argument. It is justifiable. I would rather have a handbuilt wheelset anyday, unless it is something like a Mavic CrossMax SLR or an XTR set. These are just so heavily modified that the machines that lace them are the only way to get them so accurately tensioned. If you pulled the spokes out of either wheelset, and tried to build them yourselves, it would be painful to get them right. 

On the other hand, a set of King hubs, some Sapim CXRay spokes, Sapim alloy nipples, DT, or Mavic rims and Wheelsmith's legendary wheelbuilders' chemistry set will create a stronger wheel when built with shoulder strength and 20/20 vision than any machine could be hoped for. 

Not to say those are the best parts for the lightest wheels, I don't have that stuff... I have something kinda weird, Spinergy Xyclone Disc wheels, 1520gm on the scale without skewers... not the lightest, but I can huck some icky stuff and they stay straight. 

It really comes down to what turns you on or off with this stuff, but when it comes to what builds a good wheelset, there are a few guys in the US who are known to build them right. Dave's Wheels, Peter Watson, Mike Garcia... if you can't get your stuff laced by them, I can point you at a few other guys... unless you want some 8 spoke, carbon rimmed, hubless thing that hangs from your frame using nuclear fusion and rolls on a cushion of anti-gravity particles, those three can probably get them to you straight and true, along with a few words to you on your choices dependant on riding style.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Paul Crawford said:


> Man, oh, MAN!!! You guys with your light-as-fluff wheels!!! Oh!
> 
> Ya scare me. Seriously. I understand the concern for rotating mass at an excess, but there is this sort of point of reality, where you have a wheelset so light that it whips around and flexes, snaps spokes on hard hits, and just doesn't hold up, ultimately.
> 
> ...


what exactly are you rambling on about?


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

My 1091g wheels (now 1080g wheels with full ceramic bearings) have held up for a season of racing, and I weigh 80kg. I ended the season with a win, and thus won the series overall in my age group. No problems with the wheels what so ever. That said, I'm quite aware that these wheels won't hold up as well as a wheelset weighing a pound more. But these are racing-only wheels, not training wheels, and the reduction of longevity is a tradeoff I'm willing to accept.


Ole.


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## wheelhot (Jan 6, 2006)

> My 1091g wheels (now 1080g wheels with full ceramic bearings) have held up for a season of racing, and I weigh 80kg. I ended the season with a win, and thus won the series overall in my age group. No problems with the wheels what so ever. That said, I'm quite aware that these wheels won't hold up as well as a wheelset weighing a pound more. But these are racing-only wheels, not training wheels, and the reduction of longevity is a tradeoff I'm willing to accept.


Thats a good thing to hear. Congrats on your win :thumbsup:


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Paul Crawford said:


> I would rather have a handbuilt wheelset anyday, unless it is something like a Mavic CrossMax SLR or an XTR set. These are just so heavily modified that the machines that lace them are the only way to get them so accurately tensioned. If you pulled the spokes out of either wheelset, and tried to build them yourselves, it would be painful to get them right.


High end Shimano wheels are hand made in their Malaysian factory


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## wheelhot (Jan 6, 2006)

Yeah, I live in Penang, Malaysia. My fren once went to the Johor Shimano factory tour and he says its a strict working place.


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## Paul Crawford (Aug 28, 2008)

Time for me to quiet down and listen up... sorry...


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Less Redbull more chamomile before posting


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

*Good...(warning: rant)*



rockyuphill said:


> High end Shimano wheels are hand made in their Malaysian factory


I actually find that tremendously re-assuring. I have full faith in (high-end) Asian production houses.

After breaking three Italian hand-made carbon road frames in four years, and being able to trace the fault to shoddy workmanship each time, I've realised that marketing hype and real-world resiliance a two very different things.

Now, excuse me whilst I swap out my training wheels for the WH-975s :thumbsup:


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## krinkncrank (May 8, 2005)

One thing I've always wondered is how does the Extralite rear hub sound when freewheeling? 

I consider Shimano pretty quiet, and King (which I currently run) a little on the noisy side, with a bit of a high pitched whine at speed (though definitely improved from the early King hubs). Could you describe how the Extralite SPD's sound?

Also, are any specialized tools required to service the hubs, as with, say, King hubs?


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

They are very quiet, almost no sound audible.

You only need 5mm and 10mm Allen keys to do normal service. To remove bearings, and install new ones, you obviously need special tools.


Ole.


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## krinkncrank (May 8, 2005)

Well, I'm pretty much sold on the Extralite XPD for my next set of wheels. I really dig quiet freewheel mechanisms.

For pulling the bearings, I presume the special tools to which you refer are standard bearing pullers?


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Ole said:


> My 1091g wheels (now 1080g wheels with full ceramic bearings)
> Ole.


What brand of bearings you got?
I´m tempted on ceramic after using hybrids.


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## Paul Crawford (Aug 28, 2008)

Crank Brothers' Cobalt BB with Ceramic bearings, Stronglight Zycral chainrings, Token Ceramic pulleys with Ceramic bearings, Spinergy Xyclone disc wheels with Ceramic bearings. The only bearings left are the sqingarm linkage and headset. Ceramic does not make sense there since friction is not as much of an issue as impact resistance. I use a King NoThreadset and Yeti factory bearings with Ti bolts. The King headset has a Ti baseplate and alloy cups. It has not impacted me too much to have Ceramic, but I know I will not have to do much maintaining them. They are supposed to be thrown out once they die. I have yet to have to do this for any of them. The BB is two years and some thousands of miles old, and like new. Same for the pulleys. The best friction reducer has been the chainrings. I went from ActionTec HT Ti ELS chainrings to StrongLight Zycral, and they shift better and are lighter.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

So the final verdict on the extralite hubs is...

a.) Fantastic
b.) Maintenance nightmare
c.) avoid like the plague


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

B and C.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Batas said:


> B and C.


Really? What happened?


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

Cheers! said:


> Really? What happened?


Mine have been fine and I'm around 195lbs using them on and off for 2 years+ iirc. I use them for hill climbs and fire roads. If you search you may find a few that self-destructed some how.

I'm going to start to use them for a little more aggressive single track with bigger tires.

My Tune cassette body cracked but not my EL.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Ole:

How are things with the full ceramic bearings?

I have DT 190 Ceramic hubs - 105g front and 210g rear. I was hoping to fit some Full ceramics to save weight but after speaking with Ceramic speed in Europe they advised agaisnt it as they wouldn't take the punishment and crack etc.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> Really? What happened?


 My brother has them on his Spark:










And it is the SECOND time that the rear wheel goes to the Extralite. Very weak rear hub. Soft materials, super low tolerances... The hub starts making noises. The claws start touching the internals... Messy messy messy. I couldn't get them fixed, nor could extralite. New free-wheel was the solution.

Ok for now, but if they were mine, they were long gone now. For the price (stupid price...) they are very week (rear hub). Also, the bearings are weak.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

hrm... Not good news... I'm thinking of using them on a new build...

I've been researching as many places I can. 
http://fairwheelbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5691&highlight=extralite
gives a very positive reviews in road bike applications. I would think strong road cyclists would be able to output as much torque and watt as any mountain biker can/could.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The pounding that they'd take off road, along with intermittent torque applications for ups and downs and short steeps etc. would beat up a hub much more than a roadie could.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Has anyone else used full ceramic bearings ?

Ive been speaking with Ceramic Speed and they say that 4 6902 full ceramics would be 35g lighter than steel ones. But they cost 800 Euros    

Ole where did you buy yours ??


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

I use a new type bearing from Boca, that is not as brittle as earlier types. Still going strong.


Ole.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Kool. What was the cost?


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Ole said:


> I use a new type bearing from Boca, that is not as brittle as earlier types. Still going strong.Ole.


Are those the PeekaBoo? 
For how long you have been using them and what kind of terrain or weather?


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

They are the PeekaBoo, in full ceramic. I've been using them for 10 rides, mostly in very wet conditions, or sub freezing. They run in the 120-150 dollar range for most common hub sizes.


Ole.


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