# Pole Machine



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Not sure if you guys have seen this yet, but I am more than a little besotted by it!









https://polebicycles.com/machine/

I really like the ideas behind it, I have been interested in their geometry on their other bikes for a while but this bring things pretty next level and is a completely new way of looking at things. I am definitely not adverse to carbon bikes, I have a couple, but I am a sucker for CNC work when it is done well!

I reckon this thing would be an absolute beast with 3.0 tyres on, the ultimate monster truck! Not that I've thought too much about this over the past weekend!!


----------



## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

yeah, that thing is redonk. probably the only thing coming out right now that could pursued me to hang up my Mega.

I can't wait for production models to hit the press and give me reviews to drool over.

all i have to add is "do want" and "probably cannot afford".


----------



## Sid Duffman (Oct 5, 2015)

Yeah, that Machine has me drooling too. I have a Pole 158 on pre-order, and while I'm tempted to change my order, it would cost me $1400 get the Machine, and I just can't rationalize that.


----------



## almazing (Jul 26, 2017)

I want one. I wish they made it in a 160 fork so I can buy the frameset and just transfer everything over from my Mega 290.


----------



## pta (Oct 22, 2013)

I'm proud new owner of Pole Evolink 29" 160/140 mm. It's a true game changer! Really easy to ride and it doesn't feel clumsy and it's fast as Hell. 
Let's go Racing! - The 10 fastest enduro bikes in test | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine 
I saw the Maschines prototype and tested it on parking lot and I'm in love. Beautiful piece of Art!


----------



## unrealityshow (Oct 29, 2017)

It is supremely beautiful. Makes me want to move to a resort town to justify a purchase of one. 

I am curious to see how well the bonded tubes hold up to real world abuse.


----------



## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

unrealityshow said:


> I am curious to see how well the bonded tubes hold up to real world abuse.


I'm sure its totally bomber. designing that kind of stuff is fairly well understood and i'm sure they've evaluated materials and designed for appropriate substrate contact surfaces and material thicknesses. Given how much machine work must go into something like this, designing for the adhesive interfaces would be a minor engineering task.

I see plenty of small machine bolts holding the halves together. I'm willing to bet these were added just to keep the parts consistently clamped and aligned while the adhesives cure and probably aren't needed to take any load in the final product.

Structural adhesives, depending on type, can take several weeks to cure, so its much more practical to add a couple more machine steps and some fasteners than it is to fixture the parts and clamp it for most of a month.

I think this thing is freekin brilliant. anybody know what the weight came out at? If this beast is 30 pounds or less it will literally be the ultimate bike.

FYI: I deal with some structural adhesives in my line work. they work pretty good.


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

I am sure this thing will be overkill but I'm trying to make it happen right now!!


----------



## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

i am sure this bike is cool but when i read Pole Machine i just think of a really dedicated stripper. like one that has been out there for like 15 songs or something


----------



## almazing (Jul 26, 2017)

Jefflinde said:


> i am sure this bike is cool but when i read Pole Machine i just think of a really dedicated stripper. like one that has been out there for like 15 songs or something


Boner Garage


----------



## jaydubmah (May 29, 2009)

I too am super close to pulling the trigger on one of these! Curious if there are owners of Pole Evolinks out there who could give their opinion if this bike is a true quiver killer and would upgrade to a Machine?


----------



## jaydubmah (May 29, 2009)

Hi pta - congrats on your Evolink! May I ask what sort of trails you ride on typically? I’m seriously considering beteeen a Machine or an Evolink 140


----------



## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Is anyone concerned about protecting the shock from rear wheel debris? 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## Rockrover (Jul 4, 2012)

I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger as well. The more I study the kinematics, listen to the real world reviews of the Evolink, and drool over the simple beauty of the lines of the bike I can't see going any other direction.

Couple of things that I'm trying to get answered before hitting the 'buy' button on the frame set.

1) Warranty - Pole says 'lifetime'. However sitting here in the southern rockies...If I crack a swing arm for example, I'm concerned with the down-time. Weeks? Months?

2) Untested long term durability - Sure this is first gen radical stuff. I guess there's known inherent risk, but $3300 is a chunk for me. Evil bikes damn near went tits up on their first gen breakages. They pulled through though and all is well.

Other than that I honestly can't see why not. I'm a sucker for C&C bling, and if it climbs and descends half as well as the Evolink riders say it does, then win!


----------



## dv8zen (Nov 30, 2017)

I heard that they're in the process of creating a "how it's made" sort of video regarding this.

Interesting how they chose this shaping, when they could've chose pretty much any shape they wanted. The offset and sideways turned shock... :thumbsup:


----------



## pta (Oct 22, 2013)

jaydubmah said:


> Hi pta - congrats on your Evolink! May I ask what sort of trails you ride on typically? I'm seriously considering beteeen a Machine or an Evolink 140


My riding is mainly trail riding. Occasionally I visit bike parks too. I think the mashine would be bit overkill for my riding. I think Evolink is better all purpose bike


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

bogeydog said:


> Is anyone concerned about protecting the shock from rear wheel debris?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Yep.


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

bogeydog said:


> Is anyone concerned about protecting the shock from rear wheel debris?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Their Evolink bikes actually have a nice little fender to protect the shock but it doesn't look like the asymmetric swingarm design lends itself to this. Could be a big problem in the climate my neck of the woods tends to have.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## ivar67 (Sep 16, 2013)

Their warranty is not a crash replace warranty. As I have read it it is a lifetime warranty for structural defects only. I would ask them directly


----------



## Pigglet13 (Jul 22, 2016)

Hi Jamie 
I guess we must have similar tastes as I was looking at an an evo link 140 and now got my eye on one of these too!
If you want to try the radical geometry I have one of the latest mojo geometrons in the garage you are welcome to have a play on. Not as poppy and playful as the switchblade but super fast and insanely capable!


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Pigglet13 said:


> Hi Jamie
> I guess we must have similar tastes as I was looking at an an evo link 140 and now got my eye on one of these too!
> If you want to try the radical geometry I have one of the latest mojo geometrons in the garage you are welcome to have a play on. Not as poppy and playful as the switchblade but super fast and insanely capable!


Hey Dave!

I guess we must! I wondered why you had gone quiet on the SB thread, did it go the journey?

Thank you for the offer, that would be awesome, I am really interested to see what they ride like. We really need to sort that ride out at some point soon!

I'd still keep the Switchblade, if I did end up with one of these, both completely different bikes and the Pivot is, I believe perfect for me. I'm having trouble getting email replies from Pole at the moment as apposed to Pivot answering within minutes usually, so we'll see how that pans out...


----------



## Pigglet13 (Jul 22, 2016)

Still got the blade, the geometron is just for big days and alpine uplift days as it's overkill for general trail riding. 
The switchblade is pretty much perfect for my general day to day riding and like you I think the machine would be overkill for that but it's a really interesting contraption. If there was a 140mm version Id consider trying one to replace the blade. Slacking out the switchblade has just made it better and I'd love to try an XL to see if I still found it as poppy but with more speed potential????


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Pigglet13 said:


> Still got the blade, the geometron is just for big days and alpine uplift days as it's overkill for general trail riding.
> The switchblade is pretty much perfect for my general day to day riding and like you I think the machine would be overkill for that but it's a really interesting contraption. If there was a 140mm version Id consider trying one to replace the blade. Slacking out the switchblade has just made it better and I'd love to try an XL to see if I still found it as poppy but with more speed potential????


I'm considering upping the fork on my Blade to 160mm and also running the 17mm cup, for the simple reason being - pedal strikes! I'm worried that I'll lose something in the climbs though...

I wonder if Upgrade have an XL in?

I love the look and idea of the Machine, you could machine me anything and I'd want it! I like the idea of looking for alternatives to carbon too, there was nothing wrong with alloy bikes before plastic was the in thing! Ha! I also reckon a 140mm travel one would be perfect.


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Well I’m going to give the Machine a try I reckon, I’ve been reading up on these long bikes and they’re making a lot of sense to me. Anyone else pulled the trigger on one?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

subscribe
can’t wait to see ride reports


----------



## Rautapelto (Mar 5, 2009)

Leos facebook post from Malaga



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1411689695620377


----------



## jaydubmah (May 29, 2009)

Hey there Just J, I pulled the trigger on a frameset and looking forward to building it up.

It's definitely gonna be interesting making a leap to a bike so different from what I've currently got, but hey - it can be neat to slide off of the incremental change process 

The machine ticks a lot of boxes for me, and got me super curious: the gorgeous machining, raw metal finish, multiple bottle mounts, simpler cable routing, 29" wheels, big travel, and most of all - super progressive geometry.


----------



## dv8zen (Nov 30, 2017)

I'm still waiting for the how-it's-made video they promised. I am curious why the head tube is so bulky. With their carbon prototype, they had some sort of geo changing insert.


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

jaydubmah said:


> Hey there Just J, I pulled the trigger on a frameset and looking forward to building it up.
> 
> It's definitely gonna be interesting making a leap to a bike so different from what I've currently got, but hey - it can be neat to slide off of the incremental change process
> 
> The machine ticks a lot of boxes for me, and got me super curious: the gorgeous machining, raw metal finish, multiple bottle mounts, simpler cable routing, 29" wheels, big travel, and most of all - super progressive geometry.


Hey jaydubmah!

Welcome to the fold! 

This bike is totally different to anything I've owned in the past too, it's the longest travel but also the geometry is going to feel very different.

Looking forward to seeing what the bike will do...


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

dv8zen said:


> I'm still waiting for the how-it's-made video they promised. I am curious why the head tube is so bulky. With their carbon prototype, they had some sort of geo changing insert.


Also looking forward to seeing this, not bothered about the geometry change thing though, I like simplicity and not having to change too much too often nowadays...


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

A little more info released today on Pole's YouTube account.


----------



## dv8zen (Nov 30, 2017)

5.3 kg prototype with headset and coil shock. Ouch. Under 4 is about par for a long travel bike with a coil shock. That must've taken them back to the computer for optimizations for a while. xD

Their 3 kg frame advertised production weight w/o hardware is on par with carbon. Closer to a Nomad's weight (3.3 kg with air) than a Transition (reportedly really heavy).


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

dv8zen said:


> 5.3 kg prototype with headset and coil shock. Ouch. Under 4 is about par for a long travel bike with a coil shock. That must've taken them back to the computer for optimizations for a while. xD
> 
> Their 3 kg frame advertised production weight w/o hardware is on par with carbon. Closer to a Nomad's weight (3.3 kg with air) than a Transition (reportedly really heavy).


It is just that though, a prototype. I like their honest approach with their bikes, I'm looking forward to seeing how this pans out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## dv8zen (Nov 30, 2017)

Had to compare the Evolink to the Machine to understand why some of their experience in terms of predicting stresses didn't carry over. They mention that going from 7005-T6 to 7075-T6 increased hardness, among other properties, complicates things.

Looked up the properties of each to compare. Learned some new things. Honestly thought 6061-T6 had better fatigue life than 7000 series Al, but one site seems to say otherwise, and that 7075 improves upon it all (except ductility). Thought 7000 series would be brittle and prone to crack, more likely to fail catastrophically, but people once said the same thing about carbon. Guess it's all about the use and execution of the material and product. They've successfully used it in the Evolink, at least 7005-T6. Doesn't seem wildly different in 7075-T6 form.

Noticed how the model name is punny in more ways now. xD


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Just J said:


> A little more info released today on Pole's YouTube account.


Thanks for posting the vid, J. I'm a bit chagrined to admit that until seeing it, I didn't understand that the frame includes a BB-concentric suspension linkage bearing. Everything makes sense now.
=sParty


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Sparticus said:


> Thanks for posting the vid, J. I'm a bit chagrined to admit that until seeing it, I didn't understand that the frame includes a BB-concentric suspension linkage bearing. Everything makes sense now.
> =sParty


No problem sParty, looks good doesn't it? The ability to run 3" tyres on a bike like this that promises to pedal well has me hooked!


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

dv8zen said:


> View attachment 1175871
> View attachment 1175870
> 
> 
> ...


Very interesting indeed, I'm also looking forward to more technical information coming through, so I can really geek out on that stuff.


----------



## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

I admittedly know very little when it comes to fs bikes, but that Machine is beautiful.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Just J said:


> No problem sParty, looks good doesn't it? The ability to run 3" tyres on a bike like this that promises to pedal well has me hooked!


Absolutely. Asymmetrical frames like this and the Rallon may portend additional lopsided advances in frame design. We can hope.
=sParty


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Take a look at this for a lot more information on the choice of alloy...

https://nsmb.com/articles/behind-poles-cnc-superbike-the-machine/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## henricksen (Nov 29, 2016)

hey everyone just trying to decide on which bike to pull the trigger on the 140 or the 158. I would prefer the 158 travel but I am concerned about such a high stack height it is 13mm higher than the 140 which is already way higher than anything else out there. Any opinions?


----------



## wobbem (Jul 19, 2009)

Beautiful bike but just to much travel for my needs. Really like Pole's Philosophy about the carbon waste etc.


----------



## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Say what you want about the Pole, but it is beautiful!


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

It sure is!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Ray Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

Couldn't you run a flat bar and a negative rise stem... seems like getting it down 20mm or so would be pretty doable. Its funny at 6'3" and more leg than arm I always fight to raise the stack hight (end up replacing the stock cut steerer forks my bikes come with trying to gain 20mm or so)



henricksen said:


> hey everyone just trying to decide on which bike to pull the trigger on the 140 or the 158. I would prefer the 158 travel but I am concerned about such a high stack height it is 13mm higher than the 140 which is already way higher than anything else out there. Any opinions?


----------



## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

A medium has a 480mm reach with a 79 deg effective STA. My current ride is also a medium but with a 430mm reach and a 74 deg effective STA. I use a 50mm stem. Would I still ride a medium or size down to a small?


----------



## PUNKY (Apr 26, 2010)

Ride a medium on the Pole. The point of these style of bikes is to finally be on a bike with proper reach. 

FWIW I'm on a 502mm reach G16 and my previous frames predate reach being a legit geo number. Current bikes are all mediums; V10C, Range, Surface


----------



## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

PUNKY said:


> Ride a medium on the Pole. The point of these style of bikes is to finally be on a bike with proper reach.
> 
> FWIW I'm on a 502mm reach G16 and my previous frames predate reach being a legit geo number. Current bikes are all mediums; V10C, Range, Surface


I ride a medium basically on every bike I have. The 430mm reach is the longest I've ridden so far. Also...with such a steep STA...does that put you in front of the bottom bracket?

I'm not necessarily looking at the Machine...but the Evolink 131. I think the geo on the bikes are similar with the exception of the Evolinks STA being 1 deg slacker.


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Ordered the parts I needed for this build yesterday, here's the spec I decided to go for:

FRAME: Pole Machine

HEADSET: Cane Creek Forty

FORKS: Rock Shox Lyric RCT3 180mm

RIMS: Raceface Arc 35 

HUBS: Hope Pro 4 Evo Silver

SPOKES: DT Swiss

TYRES: Terrene McFly 2.8/Maxxis Rekon 29 x 2.6/Minion DHF/DHR

HANDLEBARS: Raceface Atlas 1/2” Rise Raw

STEM: Raceface Turbine 60mm

SPACERS: Hope silver

GRIPS: Sensus

SEATPOST: Rockshox Reverb (Thumb Shifter)

SADDLE: Bontrager Evoke Ti/Fabric Scoop Race Ti

CRANKSET: Sram GX Dub Eagle

CHAINRING: Sram X-Sync 2 Oval 30T

BOTTOM BRACKET: Sram Eagle

CHAIN: SRAM GX Eagle

REAR DERAILIEUR: SRAM GX Eagle

CASSETTE: Sram GX Eagle

SHIFTER: Sram GX Eagle

BRAKES: SRAM Code RSC with 203mm/180mm Rotors

I decided to go for GX Eagle as I've got XX1 Eagle on two of my other bikes and really like it. From what I hear the GX stuff shifts almost as well as the XX1 only at literally a fraction of the price, I've picked this groupset up for a little over what a XX1 cassette would cost me! Looking forward to trying it out.

I wanted to keep the Rockshox/Sram theme going and I wanted to shy away from carbon on this build, just because it seems ironically cool to do so at the moment and particularly on this bike!


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

I stumbled onto this bike while shopping for a short travel 27. Like OP I’m drunk over the Machine. Like damn, is this the most beautiful frame ever mane? My issue is I have a wreckoning. I can afford to add a second bike or upgrade the wreckoning to the Machine. I’m looking for a second bike because climbing the wreck has gotten pretty anying and I can’t whip the 29er back wheel very well. I’m into the philosophy of having bikes for the extremes, ie a dh race type bike and a super playful small bike. I’m sure the machine is even more of a dh race type bike compared to the wreckoning, but do you guys think it might also be a better all-arounder? If it is I could probably just upgrade and scrap the second bike idea for now.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

I also think this thread needs more pics of the Machine.


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> I stumbled onto this bike while shopping for a short travel 27. Like OP I'm drunk over the Machine. Like damn, is this the most beautiful frame ever mane? My issue is I have a wreckoning. I can afford to add a second bike or upgrade the wreckoning to the Machine. I'm looking for a second bike because climbing the wreck has gotten pretty anying and I can't whip the 29er back wheel very well. I'm into the philosophy of having bikes for the extremes, ie a dh race type bike and a super playful small bike. I'm sure the machine is even more of a dh race type bike compared to the wreckoning, but do you guys think it might also be a better all-arounder? If it is I could probably just upgrade and scrap the second bike idea for now.


From what Leo, the owner of Pole says about the Machine it will become his all round trail bike and I've heard similar said of the Evolink bikes so all signs point to it being a great all rounder. It's still a 160/180mm travel bike though so I'd expect certain traits of those types of bikes to show their faces, monster truck suspension rather than lively and poppy maybe. The thing is, nobody knows as yet, it's all very exciting to see how it pans out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> I also think this thread needs more pics of the Machine.


Seems reasonable. I'm looking forward to seeing JustJ's build.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

dbhammercycle said:


> Seems reasonable. I'm looking forward to seeing JustJ's build.


Me too. When it comes to dream bikes/builds, I pretty much live vicariously through Jamie's adventures. 
=sParty


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Sparticus said:


> Me too. When it comes to dream bikes/builds, I pretty much live vicariously through Jamie's adventures.
> =sParty


Ha ha thanks sParty! Not too many adventures from me of late but I plan to change that soon! 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

I'm still diggin' on the ultimate warrior. I get it, but after that ride what else does one need to go for a ride? 

That said, you SHOULD build it J, because I need to see that machine.


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

dbhammercycle said:


> I'm still diggin' on the ultimate warrior. I get it, but after that ride what else does one need to go for a ride?
> 
> That said, you SHOULD build it J, because I need to see that machine.


I totally agree, the UW remains my favourite and go to bike and I'm reckoning on that not changing at all. It does everything from xc to dh including a bit of road really well, it's an amazing bike. The Pole is because I have an insatiable need to test new things and I want to see what all the fuss is about with it's geometry. Oh and it's so pretty!! 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## revver (Sep 30, 2013)

Hi, you guys think the Machine can fit into an Evoc bike bag? Looking at the size small EN build,wondering if it is going to be a 13ish kg bike.


----------



## DrPaulus (Aug 16, 2013)

Yes i think so.


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Just as an update, I saw sense, realised my Pivot Switchblade didn't need anymore company and that my 29 Plus was the only monster truck I need! Coupled with a few niggles about the Machine and the ever increasing lead time I decided to cancel my order and get (most of) my money back. 

I'm sure it would have been a nice bike but sometimes sense has to prevail in the end...


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Just J said:


> sometimes sense has to prevail in the end...


Only for the rest of us, J. But certainly not for you! 
I've come to depend on your inspiring reports of stunning bikes.
=sParty


----------



## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Sparticus said:


> Only for the rest of us, J. But certainly not for you!
> I've come to depend on your inspiring reports of stunning bikes.
> =sParty


Ha ha there'll still be plenty of them to come sParty, don't you worry!! 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## asin (Jan 31, 2005)

So they've already moved away from the one-sided shock mount. The Machine as at 1:18. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/what-bikes-are-the-pros-running-in-chile.html

There is some hardware visible that appears to be holding the frame halves together. I love the look of this bike. I just ordered an Evolink with the intention of upgrading to a Machine in a few seasons. It does seem like they're still working out some of the details.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

A very limited review of a Machine proto: https://dirtmountainbike.com/bike-reviews/trail-enduro-bikes/pole-machine-first-ride.html


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

@vikb I recall you hating on long geo when you were trying to defend the pivot m6. What inspired your interest in this, the most extreme long wheelbase bike?


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> @vikb I recall you hating on long geo when you were trying to defend the pivot m6. What inspired your interest in this, the most extreme long wheelbase bike?


I'm not interested in the Machine as a bike I want to own, but it's cool and I'm an engineer so I'm loving the techy porn that it is. 

Just like I watch some DH videos/racing from time to time, but I have zero interest in DH riding myself.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Ahh makes sense. I can’t agree more, this 100% machined bike is super hot bike porn. Although, if money was no consequence, I would love to own it myself.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> Ahh makes sense. I can't agree more, this 100% machined bike is super hot bike porn. Although, if money was no consequence, I would love to own it myself.


Definitely. If I had crazy $$ this would be a worthy bit of industrial art. :thumbsup:


----------



## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

vikb said:


> A very limited review of a Machine proto: https://dirtmountainbike.com/bike-reviews/trail-enduro-bikes/pole-machine-first-ride.html


is it just me, or are all of dirt's reviews "very limited". got really excited when i spotted this article, and many others (the whole dirty dozen series of long travel 29ers), but they are always kind of a let down.


----------



## Spidermatt (Jan 11, 2016)

euroford said:


> is it just me, or are all of dirt's reviews "very limited". got really excited when i spotted this article, and many others (the whole dirty dozen series of long travel 29ers), but they are always kind of a let down.


I agree with you 100%, their reviews lack any useful content. I read the whole dirty dozen series and the Pole Machine review and got nothing out of it.


----------



## DrPaulus (Aug 16, 2013)

Spidermatt said:


> I agree with you 100%, their reviews lack any useful content. I read the whole dirty dozen series and the Pole Machine review and got nothing out of it.


Most bike reviews in general, and US reviews especially are not much use. But they have some nice pictures and sometime they give you information that you can not read from the spec sheet. Lucky for us that it is very difficult to buy a bad bike these days, so reviews are not that important anymore as a buying advice.


----------



## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

revver said:


> Hi, you guys think the Machine can fit into an Evoc bike bag? Looking at the size small EN build,wondering if it is going to be a 13ish kg bike.


Yes, without a doubt. My XL Banshee Prime with 160 fork fits in an EVOC. Wheelbase is 48" plus, that appears to be close to the limit of the bag. I can also say that an XL Machine would not fit, unless it folds. I'm unclear on whether the Machine folds.


----------



## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

First Ride Review: Pole Machine - Challenging the Status Quo | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine


----------



## Stylomat (Aug 19, 2007)

Love the look and idea of the Pole machine, but that wheelbase scares me, coming of a size M evil insurgent.

What do you guys think of a shorter offset fork on this machine?


----------



## DrPaulus (Aug 16, 2013)

Stylomat said:


> Love the look and idea of the Pole machine, but that wheelbase scares me, coming of a size M evil insurgent.
> 
> What do you guys think of a shorter offset fork on this machine?


What's wrong with the wheelbase? The fork that comes with the bike is probably fine.


----------



## Stylomat (Aug 19, 2007)

DrPaulus said:


> What's wrong with the wheelbase? The fork that comes with the bike is probably fine.


Well because the wheelbase is enormous, and for fast trails this is good.
But when it gets tight or switchbacks, this could be a problem, or hard to get the bike around stuff/corners.


----------



## DrPaulus (Aug 16, 2013)

Yeah it may be a problem, and maybe it is not. If we look at history of bikes, the switchback issue has been present on forums since the dawn of 29er bikes. Bikes have since been getting longer every year, and every time the switchback issue comes up. So if it was a real issue I believe we would not have been able to ride switchbacks for the last ten years or more. 

To be more precise I do not think tight switchbacks are where the Pole excells. But I do not think it's much worse on a Pole than most other modern bikes. These long bikes have been around for a while now, and they use them in the alps where switchbacks are as tight as they come. 

Regarding shorter fork offset, Leo at Pole have been testing normal and shorter offsets back to back on the bike. And he says that the differences are small, and even if you do side by side comparisons it is difficult to notice any difference. I do not believe that getting a fork with shorter offset is going to get you through switchbacks any easier. But in other ways it may or may not improve the feel of the bike to your liking. 

There are also several reviews of Pole bikes, Bird bikes and Nicolai bikes. All of these bikes are long compared to what you would get from other brands a few years ago. Some reviews mention switchbacks as harder to do on these bikes, or that you have to change your riding technique. And some say that they are not a problem. What is right and what is wrong I do not know. But I can understand that it may be a concern if a lot of the riding you do involves tight switchbacks and endos.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

It took a while for 29ers to achieve "normal" mtb geometry, with ~17" chainstays and normal head-tube angles, they still have more BB drop, but the first nearly 10 years was simply extending the chainstay so a front-derailleur could fit in there, pushing the wheel out. We got some goofy-geometry on 29ers back then and they sucked even at the slow speed stuff. With a big wheel turning slowly, there's no real reason why it should be difficult in tight terrain, because there's no significant gyroscopic force at slow speed, but once the geometry got fixed up a few years ago, the "low speed" problem largely went away, leaving the high speed problem, but a reasonable trade-off for most people and situations (rather than taking a hit all-around).


----------



## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I saw a Machine in person. Crazy looking frame for sure. Kind of a shame that most people there did not know what they are looking at. Its a really impressive looking frame...more so when you get up close.










I didn't get a chance to climb on the Machine...but I did pedal around on the Evolink 140. At low speeds...the really slack front end does have some flop. I don't think you can really eliminate that with a HTA so slack...regardless of how steep you try to make the seat angle. With that said...the fit of the frame actually feels pretty good.


----------



## MTBguru71 (Nov 5, 2008)

These first Machines could be historic. Im interested if for that fact alone.


----------



## MTBguru71 (Nov 5, 2008)

New production pics from website wow......


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

MTBguru71 said:


> New production pics from website wow......


No kidding. This bike looks right to me in so many ways.
=sParty


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

🤤🤤🤤


----------



## DrPaulus (Aug 16, 2013)

Yeah this bike looks so amazing. If you can afford it, and have time to wait, I don't understand why you would want to buy any other LT bike right now.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

DrPaulus said:


> Yeah this bike looks so amazing. If you can afford it, and have time to wait, I don't understand why you would want to buy any other LT bike right now.


Well, for one they have an extreme-falling AS curve with the suspension on their other bikes (see linkageblog), which means they'll pedal like a wet-mattress uphill and when you really try to lay the power down. Very similar to an older FSR bike, before they tried to flatten out the curve or jack it much higher. As far as kinematics (kind of the reason I buy an FS frame), I'm not impressed by what the numbers show.


----------



## miamia (Sep 6, 2014)

Jayem, maybe you should test ride one of their bikes, instead of looking those AS curves.
I own Evolink and did couple of rides with Machine proto on January and they both climb very well. Evolink is very good bike but the Machine is just awesome. 
I have owned those old FRS, Vpp and DW link bikes and Evolink pedals as well as those bikes with DW-links and better than Vpp bikes with similar travel and Machine is updated version of the Evolink.


----------



## MTBguru71 (Nov 5, 2008)

I agree with Miamia. There is an adverse effect of high AS values and there are many more factors to suspension efficiency. If you research the pole geometry you will see this. The climbing position is completely different. Leo is an engineer and a skilled rider so I trust his design and every review I've seen on the Evolink or the Machine has been overwhelmingly positive regarding climbing.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

The sta alone is going to make this bike climb like a dream. Maybe it’ll need a platform shock to help keep the suspension firm, but guess what, all the best shocks have them now. So IMO 79 deg STA + platform shock is much greater than slack sta and better AS curve. Plus the brake squat, pedal kick back and forces curves all look very good.


----------



## miamia (Sep 6, 2014)

Yes Machine climbs really well and does not need platform shock. I have Öhlins coil in my Evolink, it rides nice and high and I haven't used that climbing lever at all. The Machine proto had that RS metric shock, which comes with frame and EN build and it worked really well. That steep seat angel puts you in very good position for climbs. It is really just sit and spin and bike goes up.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

miamia said:


> Jayem, maybe you should test ride one of their bikes, instead of looking those AS curves.
> I own Evolink and did couple of rides with Machine proto on January and they both climb very well. Evolink is very good bike but the Machine is just awesome.
> I have owned those old FRS, Vpp and DW link bikes and Evolink pedals as well as those bikes with DW-links and better than Vpp bikes with similar travel and Machine is updated version of the Evolink.


The (suspension) ride characteristics are dictated by the kinematics. Hey, it was asked, I responded, don't worry.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> The sta alone is going to make this bike climb like a dream. Maybe it'll need a platform shock to help keep the suspension firm, but guess what, all the best shocks have them now. So IMO 79 deg STA + platform shock is much greater than slack sta and better AS curve. Plus the brake squat, pedal kick back and forces curves all look very good.


In 1994 I had a custom frame built with a 78 degree seat tube angle (because I employed 200mm cranks and KOPS was still in vogue). Anyway the reason doesn't matter -- what I discovered is the bike climbed like a scalded cat. Steep STA was my secret weapon for over 20 years, I outclimbed all my riding buds, they couldn't figure out why. Now the secret is out. Pole seems to be on the cutting edge of bicycle geometry evolution.
=sParty


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Apparently all of the people who are paid to go uphill fast for a living haven't discovered it yet.

That, or it's not actually born out by reality?


----------



## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Actually I would be inclined to agree with the steeper STA and it's effects on climbing. Though saddle position can make a difference in that area as sliding forward does the same thing. Think about it, set back seatposts are disappearing, people are moving forward and can't be blamed on long ETTs as that's compensated by shorter stems. Climbing is more efficient when legs are moving more efficiently. 

78deg STA might be too far but I don't see racers making a big deal about it. Remember every change meets heavy resistance from racers. Plus bikes only came to be as a middle ground to fat bikes due to peoples craving wider tires.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## MTBguru71 (Nov 5, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> Apparently all of the people who are paid to go uphill fast for a living haven't discovered it yet.
> 
> That, or it's not actually born out by reality?


Exactly....they are behind the times as usual.


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

MTBguru71 said:


> Exactly....they are behind the times as usual.


Alternately:

They run less sag on short travel bikes.

And, no, I'm guessing the National federations that spend $$$ on research with them would make sure they are in the best position possible to produce power on a bicycle.

I realize people love to chase trends, but there are very simple explanations for WHY long travel bikes have steeper STAs, and yours is not one of them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> I realize people love to chase trends, but there are very simple explanations for WHY long travel bikes have steeper STAs, and yours is not one of them.


+1 - yup. I prefer less steep than currently fashionable STAs [33" pants inseam so not short legged]. It's easy to slide forward on the saddle for truly steep climbs and then slide back to an efficient pedalling position for the flats and rolling terrain.

And that's the rub you can slide forward to steepen the perceived STA anytime you want, but you can slide backwards off the saddle to do the opposite. Which is why I want my saddle in a more moderate position for the bulk of my riding and I am okay with moving forward on the saddle for those times when it makes sense.

That said I am looking forward to the first 90 deg STA bike. I'm hoping MTB fashion will peak there and we can start moving back the other way.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

I don’t care about how fast I climb or how much power I can put down. I care about comfort and perceived energy spent. On a long travel bike I feel gassed pretty fast if I can’t get into a comfy sit and spin position. This is one of a handful LT bikes that optimizes the climbing position for steep, slow ups. I love what Pole did here and hope other bike makers follow suit.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

vikb said:


> +1 - yup. I prefer less steep than currently fashionable STAs [33" pants inseam so not short legged]. It's easy to slide forward on the saddle for truly steep climbs and then slide back to an efficient pedalling position for the flats and rolling terrain.
> 
> And that's the rub you can slide forward to steepen the perceived STA anytime you want, but you can slide backwards off the saddle to do the opposite. Which is why I want my saddle in a more moderate position for the bulk of my riding and I am okay with moving forward on the saddle for those times when it makes sense.
> 
> That said I am looking forward to the first 90 deg STA bike. I'm hoping MTB fashion will peak there and we can start moving back the other way.


I believe that a steep STA benefits off-road cyclists who ride a certain type of terrain more than other riders. My rides typically include hours long climbs followed by multi-thousand foot descents. I prefer a steep STA because whenever I'm climbing, my front wheel spends its time elevated above the rear wheel. Whenever the front wheel is higher than the rear, STA slacks to the same degree from horizontal. I prefer to spend my climbing hours sitting on the fat part of the saddle rather than on the nose. A steep STA allows me to do this. I don't like sitting on the skinny nose of the saddle any longer than I have to, though I'm well acquainted with this skill and employ it as necessary.

Once my bike is pointed downhill, STA is moot. The saddle is down, gone.

Whenever riding flat ground, I find the steep STA doesn't bother me. In fact I like it because my sit bones are on the widest, most padded part of the saddle -- the very back.

I don't consider bikes with steep STAs fashionable anymore than I consider a bike with a slack HA, short stem, long TT, short CS or low BB fashionable. I've been riding steep STA frames for 24 years and they work for me. Frankly I'm surprised to see the off-road framebuilding world finally arriving at steep STAs because I know the traditional position is so popular but I believe that beyond improved climbing prowess, there's another reason frame designers are employing steep STAs now. A steeper STA allows more travel given the same chainstay length because the rear tire won't contact the seat tube on a steep STA frame until later in the travel.
=sParty


----------



## MTBguru71 (Nov 5, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> Alternately:
> 
> They run less sag on short travel bikes.
> 
> ...


What could be more irrelevant to a thread on the Pole Machine than your guesses about what national federations spend their research dollars on?

I'm sure glad intelligent mountain bikers chase trends with their hard earned dollars. The results of this are more choices in bikes with greater capabilities.


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

MTBguru71 said:


> What could be more irrelevant to a thread on the Pole Machine than your guesses about what national federations spend their research dollars on?
> 
> I'm sure glad intelligent mountain bikers chase trends with their hard earned dollars. The results of this are more choices in bikes with greater capabilities.


It's relevant in that people at making statements that are inaccurate at best re: STA.

Just like using the word "capable". It means nothing unless you further clarify what it is more or less capable of. There are trade offs. There is no free lunch; one bike is not more "capable"; it just has a different range of conditions under which it is ideal.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Hey Le Duke, we each have a right to express our opinion. Speaking of opinions...


Le Duke said:


> It's relevant in that people at making statements that are inaccurate at best re: STA.


I wonder if this is fact or opinion. May I ask what qualifications you have that make your statement regarding others' opinions ("inaccurate at best") fact rather than merely your own opinion? And if what you've said is merely your own opinion, please help the rest of us understand why your opinion is more credible than the opinions of others. I'm not being flip when I ask this. If you do understand the intimate nuances of frame design, I'd like to ask you some additional questions.



Le Duke said:


> Just like using the word "capable". It means nothing unless you further clarify what it is more or less capable of. There are trade offs. There is no free lunch; one bike is not more "capable"; it just has a different range of conditions under which it is ideal.


Read back. That's not what MTBguru71 said about capability. Here it is:


MTBguru71 said:


> I'm sure glad intelligent mountain bikers chase trends with their hard earned dollars. The results of this are more choices in bikes with greater capabilities.


In this case (s)he clearly used the word "capabilities" as a comparative noun. "Greater capabilities" implies compared to bikes that came before. To say there's no free lunch is irrelevant. Outright gains have been made in bicycle frame design. I recall days when mountain bikes had top tubes that were parallel to the ground.
=sParty


----------



## gil machine (Aug 5, 2018)

Hey guys ive had my machine for about 3 months now and been riding it every chance i get... has anyone notice excessive amount of flexing? I know for it being a long geometry bike its known to have some flex. But when i was feeling around the top tube as I shake the bike left and right the seam underneath the top tube shifts side to side where its suppose to be glued, also under neath the bottom bracket where the seams come together has also play. Its not glued any more and by this causes the bike to have excessive play. Also i had a friend follow me and he sees excessive flexing left and right at every pedal strike load.. another time i notice when i hit a jump the landing is pretty rough from the excessive flexing. Ill try to post a video soon. Thanks


----------



## Haggis (Jan 21, 2004)

gil machine said:


> Hey guys ive had my machine for about 3 months now and been riding it every chance i get... has anyone notice excessive amount of flexing? I know for it being a long geometry bike its known to have some flex. But when i was feeling around the top tube as I shake the bike left and right the seam underneath the top tube shifts side to side where its suppose to be glued, also under neath the bottom bracket where the seams come together has also play. Its not glued any more and by this causes the bike to have excessive play. Also i had a friend follow me and he sees excessive flexing left and right at every pedal strike load.. another time i notice when i hit a jump the landing is pretty rough from the excessive flexing. Ill try to post a video soon. Thanks


Ah, yikes??


----------



## GRPABT1 (Oct 22, 2015)

gil machine said:


> Hey guys ive had my machine for about 3 months now and been riding it every chance i get... has anyone notice excessive amount of flexing? I know for it being a long geometry bike its known to have some flex. But when i was feeling around the top tube as I shake the bike left and right the seam underneath the top tube shifts side to side where its suppose to be glued, also under neath the bottom bracket where the seams come together has also play. Its not glued any more and by this causes the bike to have excessive play. Also i had a friend follow me and he sees excessive flexing left and right at every pedal strike load.. another time i notice when i hit a jump the landing is pretty rough from the excessive flexing. Ill try to post a video soon. Thanks


Glue together a bike they said, it'll be fun they said...


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Wait, they glued a metal bike together?


----------



## WilliamK (Jul 29, 2009)

Have you contacted Pole, they'd be interested to know.

They did a lot of testing and DH riding on the prototypes. But that is not to say that you could get an unfortunate delamination. It happens with aircraft parts from time to time. Run your finger over the join area, it should be smooth, if there is an edge then there is some movement. Good luck


----------



## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Jayem said:


> Wait, they glued a metal bike together?


It's an aerospace technique. If it is executed properly there shouldn't be an issue. Yes this guy is having an issue but it remains to be seen if it is isolated or not.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Jayem said:


> Wait, they glued a metal bike together?


The parts are held in place with bolts, the glue is added for extra rigidity, but yeah, I had the exact same reaction the first time I saw "aluminum frame" and "glued together" on the same sentence.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

tuckerjt07 said:


> It's an aerospace technique. If it is executed properly there shouldn't be an issue. Yes this guy is having an issue but it remains to be seen if it is isolated or not.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Yes, my reaction is not that it's impossible, it's that whenever tried in mtb it's often been an utter failure, like Crank Bro's "glued-together" crank-halves. I'm familiar with aerospace, but they don't often glue the engine-mount to the firewall or the wing-struts to the fuselage.


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Aren’t a lot of aluminum crank arms machined in halves then glued together? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Aglo said:


> The parts are held in place with bolts, the glue is added for extra rigidity, but yeah, I had the exact same reaction the first time I saw "aluminum frame" and "glued together" on the same sentence.


The frame is bonded that's what's holding it together. The small bolts are just there so they don't need a fixture for the bonding process. This allows cheaper/faster production. If the adhesive fails those bolts will not hold the bike together under a rider.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> Aren't a lot of aluminum crank arms machined in halves then glued together?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Um...no?


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Jayem said:


> Um...no?
> 
> View attachment 1211101


http://www.killasgarage.bike/uncategorized/musings-on-shimano-hollowtech-cranks/

There are plenty of articles that talk about Shimano cranks being machined in halves then glued together.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> Musings on Shimano HollowTech Cranks - Killa's Garage
> 
> There are plenty of articles that talk about Shimano cranks being machined in halves then glued together.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wasn't aware that was how they were made, I'd be interesting to see the cross-section and see how they "fit" together, in other words how critical the glue is. Still, monocoque frames like Foes and San Andreas that were produced in halves were always welded together down the middle.


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

vikb said:


> The frame is bonded that's what's holding it together. The small bolts are just there so they don't need a fixture for the bonding process. This allows cheaper/faster production. If the adhesive fails those bolts will not hold the bike together under a rider.


You are right.
I went to re-read the article where I originally read about the frame, and it is as you say.
Still, past examples with aluminum tubes and lugs make me rise one or two eyebrows .


----------



## Aglo (Dec 16, 2014)

Jayem said:


> I wasn't aware that was how they were made, I'd be interesting to see the cross-section and see how they "fit" together, in other words how critical the glue is. Still, monocoque frames like Foes and San Andreas that were produced in halves were always welded together down the middle.


Found this:


----------



## polebicycles.com (Aug 6, 2018)

Hello Everyone!

I'm Leo Kokkonen, and I'm the founder of Pole bicycles and engineer behind Pole Machine. It's nice to see how much interest there is towards our product in this forum.

Our frame is machined from 7075 T6 aluminium billets. Bonding the halves together we use mechanical and adhesive joints to create a tubular monocoque frame. We distribute the loads by external shape and wall thicknesses like in any other frame but we can also produce internal shapes that is impossible with conventional methods. The frame halves have mechanical connections and steel bolts. The bolts also share lateral loads and secure some areas for extreme situations.

We are continually learning from the process, and we have updated already frames several times after we started the production. The updates are relatively small. For example, we added bolts near the bb and head- and top tube to strengthen the frame for extreme impacts and stress. The good thing about machining is that we can quickly change the design within weeks instead of year model batches.

All our customers who have bought Machines have full warranty on the frames for liabilities and defects, and because we are doing something that no one has any experience, we have extra resources for warranty cases.

I'm happy to answer any questions, and I'm at Crankworx Whistler next week if someone wants to meet me and see the product live and maybe swing his leg over the bike


----------



## GRPABT1 (Oct 22, 2015)

polebicycles.com said:


> Hello Everyone!
> 
> I'm Leo Kokkonen, and I'm the founder of Pole bicycles and engineer behind Pole Machine. It's nice to see how much interest there is towards our product in this forum.
> 
> ...


So you're replacing the OP's frame with the new updated version?


----------



## polebicycles.com (Aug 6, 2018)

GRPABT1 said:


> So you're replacing the OP's frame with the new updated version?


All warranty replacements will be handled with the current revisions on Machines at the moment.

Note that all sizes are individuals on construction and we can make small changes weekly without any notice. We mainly optimize machining time. In some cases we might change joints mainly because we can get better performance / weight etc. It's really cool working on this because as soon as we learn something we can implement it next week. This kind of changes are hardly seen outside the frame so from customer point of view it is not relevant until we make some big changes. So every time one purchases a Machine it is the latest design.


----------



## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Cannondale's Hollowgram crank arms are also bonded from two halves.


----------



## Losvar (Mar 21, 2016)

Jayem said:


> Yes, my reaction is not that it's impossible, it's that whenever tried in mtb it's often been an utter failure, like Crank Bro's "glued-together" crank-halves. I'm familiar with aerospace, but they don't often glue the engine-mount to the firewall or the wing-struts to the fuselage.


Quite a lot of modern cars are held together by glue.
Those same cars are immensely stiffer and safer than cars from 20 or more years ago.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

gil machine said:


> Hey guys ive had my machine for about 3 months now and been riding it every chance i get... has anyone notice excessive amount of flexing? I know for it being a long geometry bike its known to have some flex. But when i was feeling around the top tube as I shake the bike left and right the seam underneath the top tube shifts side to side where its suppose to be glued, also under neath the bottom bracket where the seams come together has also play. Its not glued any more and by this causes the bike to have excessive play. Also i had a friend follow me and he sees excessive flexing left and right at every pedal strike load.. another time i notice when i hit a jump the landing is pretty rough from the excessive flexing. Ill try to post a video soon. Thanks


That sucks.

Updates?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


----------



## R3D2 (Jun 26, 2007)

Suns_PSD said:


> That sucks.
> 
> Updates?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Really interested in how it actually rides. Any comparisons to a more traditional geo? What were you riding prior? Anyone...?


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

R3D2 said:


> Really interested in how it actually rides. Any comparisons to a more traditional geo? What were you riding prior? Anyone...?


It's not my bike. To be blunt I would not consider a 7-8 # (before rear shock so really 9+) frame that costs so much and is such low production. You just can't get enough development and support for such a low volume product.

I also don't buy the entire biodegradeable angle either because it doesn't consider the lifetime effects of this process (mining and smelting huge blocks of aluminum, transporting it, electricity for the machinery, manufacturing of bits, etc...). But that's not really a motivating factor for most.


----------



## R3D2 (Jun 26, 2007)

Suns_PSD said:


> It's not my bike. To be blunt I would not consider a 7-8 # (before rear shock so really 9+) frame that costs so much and is such low production. You just can't get enough development and support for such a low volume product.
> 
> I also don't buy the entire biodegradeable angle either because it doesn't consider the lifetime effects of this process (mining and smelting huge blocks of aluminum, transporting it, electricity for the machinery, manufacturing of bits, etc...). But that's not really a motivating factor for most.


my bad, Suns_PSD. i should not have responded directly to you. i meant it as a question to everyone on the thread. everyone is entitled to their opinions and i am not looking to get into the carbon/alum debate or weight or whatever. we buy this bike or that bike for our own reasons. there are more incredible bikes out there today than ever so it's great to have so many choices. i would just love to hear about how the machine rides from anyone who has thrown a leg over one. cheers.


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Good deal.

I too am fascinated by the Machine, it sure is nice to look at as well.

I ordered a Foxy 29, I figure that's low volume enough for around these parts!


----------



## R3D2 (Jun 26, 2007)

I'll be on the look out for your thoughts on that bike as well, I have to assume it will be awesome. 

I'm looking for a dedicated DH bike that isn't a full dual crown set up. Something i can pedal if I had to but wouldn't be my day-to-day trail bike. That is what has me interested in the machine. hopefully some other owners will chime in here at some point.


----------



## bike_futurist (Nov 12, 2018)

gil machine said:


> Hey guys ive had my machine for about 3 months now and been riding it every chance i get... has anyone notice excessive amount of flexing? I know for it being a long geometry bike its known to have some flex. But when i was feeling around the top tube as I shake the bike left and right the seam underneath the top tube shifts side to side where its suppose to be glued, also under neath the bottom bracket where the seams come together has also play. Its not glued any more and by this causes the bike to have excessive play. Also i had a friend follow me and he sees excessive flexing left and right at every pedal strike load.. another time i notice when i hit a jump the landing is pretty rough from the excessive flexing. Ill try to post a video soon. Thanks


what happened with this?


----------



## gil machine (Aug 5, 2018)

bike_futurist said:


> what happened with this?


Pole redesigned the frame (top tube nut checker) and they sent me a new one, ive been riding it and so far so good, also they made futher adjustments by adding a special mount for a chainring bash guard... 
other than that Pole stood by their warranty and im happy with my machine!


----------



## 772268 (Jun 8, 2014)

*Questions on your Machine ownership....*



gil machine said:


> Pole redesigned the frame (top tube nut checker) and they sent me a new one, ive been riding it and so far so good, also they made futher adjustments by adding a special mount for a chainring bash guard...
> other than that Pole stood by their warranty and im happy with my machine!


Very good to hear this. I myself am currently trying to decide which Pole I should get. I was [am] leaning toward the 158 because I really don't care for the asymmetrical rear linkage. Thus the 158 OR the Stamina has my interest. I'm just curious as to how the Stamina would do on all-day type rides....which I do a lot of, and which my current favorite bike [Evil Wreckoning] excels at. Sure, it may not be the 'fastest' on the long climbing sections, but it is indeed a very comfortable climbing bike...as well as excelling at anything steep and technical. So if, say, the Stamina were at least as good as my Evil is for all-day rides...then heck I'd surely make use of the extra cush because this new type geometry seems to utterly favor my riding style...thus the Pole!

So are you still very happy with your Machine? Do you take it on LONG rides? If so, how would you best describe it? ie: is it just 'Ok'?, ...is the fun-factor still high enough to make you forget about how much travel it has? I'm asking this question because, for me, the Evil Wreckoning has somehow managed to become 'thee' bike for me...even though I've read [plenty of times] about people who say that it is too much travel etc. I don't feel this at all from it.

Another question I had is : When you ordered you Machine, did it arrive on the date you were originally told it would? ..OR did is take months longer than that? I ask because I'm pretty leery about paying --in full-- for a stamina being told it will be shipped in March, when IN FACT it might end up arriving 6 months later than that. ..like what happened to a few other people I have interacted with online.

Thanks for any input!


----------



## mrazz001 (Dec 23, 2009)

I have a Machine and think it’s fantastic so far. It shipped a month late, but that wasn’t that big of a deal. I emailed about it once and got an immediate response. The Machine is my one bike and I think it does it all well. Climbing is great (coming from an SB6) and descending is super fast, fun and safe. Highly recommended. The bike doesn’t feel long and the riding position makes it easy to negotiate tight situations.


----------



## -C- (Oct 26, 2006)

The Pole is certainly an interesting looking bike. it was on my shortlist along with the RAAW Madonna.

I ended up with the latter, mainly because I managed to find one luckily enough second hand at a significant saving over the new price. I would happily have gone with either but with the Pole being that bit newer, the chances of finding something other than brand new, was minimal.


----------



## 772268 (Jun 8, 2014)

_"I have a Machine and think it's fantastic so far. It shipped a month late, but that wasn't that big of a deal. I emailed about it once and got an immediate response. The Machine is my one bike and I think it does it all well. Climbing is great (coming from an SB6) and descending is super fast, fun and safe. Highly recommended. The bike doesn't feel long and the riding position makes it easy to negotiate tight situations."_

Good to hear. I as well am nearly decided on the Machine. I am tempted though to wait a while, maybe another year, to see if they end up making a new bike like the Machine but with the linkage similar to the Stamina. I myself think the Machine is a work of art in terms of the industrial 'look'. Right now my Evil Wreckoning continues to be 'thee' most fun bike I have ever owned. The ONE thing that I do hate about though is this : In any type of sloggy wet weather rides, the rear linkage 'packs' up with debris. So much so I actually have to use a half water bottle of water into the linkage whilst the bike is upside down on-trail, otherwise it will get so bad that it actually stops the linkage from working. So that is really why I am going to part with it as soon as I get another bike. If not for this, I'd keep it 'til I die. But back to Pole : I have a suspicion that my riding style and position on the bike will end up being a perfect match with the Machine. I myself think the Wreckoning climbs fantastic, so if the Pole even comes anywhere near it in terms of climbing, I will be happy man for sure. My rides are often over 5 hours long....and I figure that if the Wreckoning does the job at such a high fun-factor...then for sure the Pole should do so as well. Evil suspension is incredible in terms of feel and traction. But from what people have been saying, seems like the Pole is also distinctive and fun. We'll soon see.


----------



## tungsten (Apr 7, 2006)

Couple guys riding Poles having issues....



> I won't ever buy another Pole but thanks for thinking of me..........I'll let someone else guinea pig that $5000 frame.
> 
> The Pole experiment didnt work out for you? What was the problem/issue you found with it?
> 
> Didn't work for me either, and it wasn't geo related, for either of us. I'll hold my story until my issue gets resolved.


....hmmm, anticipation.


----------



## jbsocal (Feb 12, 2011)

I’m interested in the Machine/Stamina.

They do not list BB height in GEO (just says -20 mm on the Machine below the rear axle and some “not to low, not to high” bull crap on the Stamina), anyone know exactly what it is?

Damn, just list the BB height so folks can easily compare.

I’d probably run DHF 3.0’s or SE4 3.0’s on it since I don’t ride mud.

I am not a fan of really low BB’s.


----------



## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

jbsocal said:


> I'm interested in the Machine/Stamina.
> 
> They do not list BB height in GEO (just says -20 mm on the Machine below the rear axle and some "not to low, not to high" bull crap on the Stamina), anyone know exactly what it is?
> 
> ...


Pole isn't a fan of low bb's either. -20 bb drop is probably their lowest and that's like 350mm height.


----------



## bike_futurist (Nov 12, 2018)

where is this from


----------



## DrPaulus (Aug 16, 2013)

bb drop is the way to measure how high a bb will be. Any other measurement is dependant on wheelsize, tire size, manufacturer, tire pressure and so on.


----------



## Andeh (Jul 30, 2014)

jbsocal said:


> I'm interested in the Machine/Stamina.
> 
> They do not list BB height in GEO (just says -20 mm on the Machine below the rear axle and some "not to low, not to high" bull crap on the Stamina), anyone know exactly what it is?
> 
> ...


I did some searching, and apparently a typical 1/2 29" wheel dia. with tires is about 375mm. That matches up with what Pole told me when I emailed them, saying the Machine has a 355mm BB height (with 2.5" front 2.4" rear tires).


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

DrPaulus said:


> bb drop is the way to measure how high a bb will be. Any other measurement is dependant on wheelsize, tire size, manufacturer, tire pressure and so on.


Yup. If a company lists a BBH hopefully you get the BB drop as well so you can compare between frames more accurately.


----------



## curbhuck (Aug 10, 2007)

mrazz001 said:


> I have a Machine and think it's fantastic so far. It shipped a month late, but that wasn't that big of a deal. I emailed about it once and got an immediate response. The Machine is my one bike and I think it does it all well. Climbing is great (coming from an SB6) and descending is super fast, fun and safe. Highly recommended. The bike doesn't feel long and the riding position makes it easy to negotiate tight situations.


How does it compare to the SB6 in terms of descending? I have and SB6, I'm seriously intrigued by the machine


----------



## geoya (Jun 25, 2014)

pulled a trigger on Machine EN, size XL.










I'm 6'5'' (~196 cm) tall , with 36'' (92 cm) inseam and it fits great.
Such a relief. I'm done with riding undersized bikes with slack seatpost angle and my ass behind read hub on climbs.


----------



## krumme (May 6, 2018)

geoya said:


> pulled a trigger on Machine EN, size XL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats.

Even at 5.11 (180.5cm) I know the change and understand you big guys. It must be a revelation for you.

Back spring I got new xc ht. The usual 70hta 73.5sta short wheelbase whatnot. I got mine in medium and my wife at 165cm got one small. I didn't feel comfortable while she was spot on day one. Looking at the bikes next to each other it's easy to see why. Those xc bike seems to fit people well below 170.
I ended up slacking out the hta what not so they kind of is acceptable for me now. But especially the short wheelbase is still idiotic even if it have its advantages.

I got myself a new scott genius tuned large and after about 300 meters it was evident how much better fit it was. It's a revelation and I can't even start to think how it is for 6.5 to enter an xl machine. What a blast. My type of riding is not for a machine as it's far more xc style but I would gladly support Leo.


----------



## geoya (Jun 25, 2014)

krumme said:


> Congrats.
> 
> Even at 5.11 (180.5cm) I know the change and understand you big guys. It must be a revelation for you.
> 
> ...


Thanks!

If they had an XXL I'd buy it =). machine does not feel long when mounted, but does feel different riding.

Leo announced shorter travel machine-like or stamina-like bike recently (140mm IRC), but I can't find the source.
and they have evolink 130 and 110xc


----------



## VitaliT (Jan 17, 2015)

geoya said:


> Thanks!
> 
> If they had an XXL I'd buy it =). machine does not feel long when mounted, but does feel different riding.
> 
> ...




__
http://instagr.am/p/Bt0pEb_FYAX/

Also interested in this frame

OK now its official. just wondering LE build deretisima bikeyoke and rokspoks?? why no EXT/intended.

https://polebicycles.com/the-fastest-bike/


----------



## Komdotkom (Feb 21, 2012)

polebicycles.com said:


> All our customers who have bought Machines have full warranty on the frames for liabilities and defects, and because we are doing something that no one has any experience, we have extra resources for warranty cases.


I hope this applies to the current issues with the Pole Staminas.


----------



## VitaliT (Jan 17, 2015)

Komdotkom said:


> I hope this applies to the current issues with the Pole Staminas.


https://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=219717&pagenum=3#commentid6924272


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

VitaliT said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=219717&pagenum=3#commentid6924272


Ouch. :eekster:


----------



## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

Sucks to see, but pretty apparent the company is in dire financial straights. They can't afford to deal with the warranty issues.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Boutique is boutique, more risk, more benefits.

I ride GG bikes, if they went under I woudl be stuck. 

Fortunately it's not a vehicle, so worse case scenario you're out a couple K.

I sorta wondered about the frames staying together over time ... I guess now we know.


----------



## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

_To keep it hollow, sections that would be tubular on traditional frames are made of two hollowed-out pieces fastened together with titanium bolts_

As an engineer that's a HUGE red flag in my book. Wow. What a dumb idea.

https://www.bikemag.com/sea-otter-classic-2018/pole-bicycles-ships-united-states/


----------



## trail-blazer (Mar 30, 2010)

It sucks to see this. They must be in crisis mode probably trying to figure out how to deal with the problems not to mention they probably lack the financial resources to absorb the warranties. It's a scary position to be in as a business owner facing an issue that could potentially sink your business. I don't think they've conducted themselves very well with the lack of communication and overly aggressive censoring of their FB page. They need to quickly try determine if the problems stem from a production issue (lack of adequate post machining prep for the adhesive), assembly failure, bad batch of glues which hopefully they should be able to do fairly quickly from the serial numbers of the failing frames.

I have an Evolink 140, coming up for almost 3 years, and love it and fortunately haven't had any reason to have to deal with Pole since I got it. I was seriously considering getting a 180 Stamina in the spring but now shifted to considering a Nicolai G1 instead.

I wish them the best and hope they ride this through and make it right for all owners who have suffered the failures. We need small forward thinking brands in this industry to push boundaries.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

prj71 said:


> _To keep it hollow, sections that would be tubular on traditional frames are made of two hollowed-out pieces fastened together with titanium bolts_
> 
> As an engineer that's a HUGE red flag in my book. Wow. What a dumb idea.
> 
> https://www.bikemag.com/sea-otter-classic-2018/pole-bicycles-ships-united-states/


I knew there was a reason that Foes welded their monocoque frames together!


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

https://bikerumor.com/2014/05/08/factory-tour-foes-racing-part-1-how-theyre-made/

Foes was and is a master at his craft.

Releasing what is basically a prototype as a production run...well, we see how that worked out. It's a bummer because Pole is innovative in their own right. I would definitely own a Stamina 140 if it was in carbon or something alike.

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

WHALENARD said:


> https://bikerumor.com/2014/05/08/factory-tour-foes-racing-part-1-how-theyre-made/
> 
> Foes was and is a master at his craft.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I was referring more to his older monocoque bikes, even some of his that "looked" like tubed bikes were still two halves welded together. I'm not sure if he still makes bikes like that though. They were interesting examples of prioritizing frame stiffness, oversize pivots, giant non-rate-changing scissor linkages, short stays, asymmetrical design, virtually every aspect was designed for ultimate stiffness...short of what Pole tried to do with the Machine, which just doesn't seem like it an work on that scale (gluing an entire frame together by halves). Maybe friction-stir welding? That would be an interesting way to do it.


----------



## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

Or stick with what works and use tubes made of Aluminum or steel. Or a carbon frame. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## smith001 (Nov 17, 2004)

Interesting Mea Culpa on the Pole website posted yesterday announcing CEO’s resignation, acknowledging the issues above, and laying out a timeline to fix the issues of those in the warranty cue. It’s a good step if they actually deliver on what they wrote.


----------

