# eSinglespeed.....



## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

Could that be a "thing" in the future?


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

JMac47 said:


> Could that be a "thing" in the future?


I have done it, but more mainsteam is less gears. More like 6, 8 is enough.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## og-mtb (Sep 23, 2018)

I'm holding out for an eFixie.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Just build your own: $300 Bikes Direct SS fatbike with a BBSHD.


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## motocatfish (Mar 12, 2016)

JMac47 said:


> Could that be a "thing" in the future?


The original Sondors Thin was just that.









Later year models got the 1x7 and a meh front fork.

I like my eSS.

Catfish ...


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## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

I knew it.  I ride an ss but you should see some of the wadded panties over in the singlespeed forum when I posted a similar question. Not trolling. I dont have an ebike so forgive me. But I could see a conventional geared one in my future.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

JMac47 said:


> I knew it.  I ride an ss but you should see some of the wadded panties over in the singlespeed forum when I posted a similar question. Not trolling. I dont have an ebike so forgive me. But I could see a conventional geared one in my future.


My LBS built a singlespeed fat bike (didn't look like it was for dirt) for someone else, 5000 watts. Dual chain, huge chain width, like 3/4 inches wide. Makes a car's timing chain look tiny. They couldn't find a large enough battery with any range so they may need to put on multiple ones. I have no idea how they are going to start up 5000 watts from a standstill, hopefully they have about 20 different watt levels for it.

But why not an infinitely variable transmission one like they have on a lot of car sedans now? It's not expensive. Sure that transmission is slow to respond but it functions like multiple gears.


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

The copenhagen wheel is a single speed hub motor.. a lot of hub motors are only single speed


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## og-mtb (Sep 23, 2018)

frantik! said:


> The copenhagen wheel is a single speed hub motor.. a lot of hub motors are only single speed


- Double checks that he's still on Mountain Bike Review dot com
- looks at that video again
-realizes that someone doesn't understand what "singlespeed" means in MTB context
- buys confused guy a helpful link:

https://forums.mtbr.com/singlespeed/


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## og-mtb (Sep 23, 2018)

craigsj said:


> How does an "MTB context" change what what a "singlespeed" is and how is that link you "bought" "helpful"? Also, when will you grow up?


Next time, watch the linked "singlespeed" video before trying to chime in. If you had done that, you should have understood the non-mtb context.

Here's a free clue:


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

glad to know i got ya riled up there guy


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

I was thinking more on the road but it looks like at least one person has made a gravel grinder with one.. be interesting if someone put one on a 29er for fun.









A lot of the super fast electric bikes use a single speed hub motor with small diameter wheels and vestigial pedals, but those are way more like dirt bikes/motorbikes, with few actual bicycle parts


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## og-mtb (Sep 23, 2018)

frantik! said:


> glad to know i got ya riled up there guy


You're confusing me laughing at you, again, with being "riled up."

That's not the least bit surprising. And funny in its own right.


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## og-mtb (Sep 23, 2018)

frantik! said:


> I was thinking more on the road but it looks like at least one person has made a gravel grinder with one...
> 
> View attachment 1246305


NEWSFLASH:

Just because a hybrid bike has drop bars and a front tire with some knobs does not mean it's a gravel grinder. You're out of your depth. Again.

It's simply a clapped-out commuter. With a 17 pound 700c wheel aimed at commuters. Not mountain bike singlespeeders.

https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/superpedestrian-copenhagen-wheel-review.html


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## og-mtb (Sep 23, 2018)

craigsj said:


> I did watch the video and it doesn't explain anything about how "context" matters or what you talking about. Neither does your "free clue". Why don't you just say what you mean?
> 
> You think your clever retorts make you look smart; they don't. Whether a bike is singlespeed or not has nothing to do with whether there's pavement under the tires.
> 
> Single speed combined with electric assist is common, regardless of whether a dolt thinks he can dismiss a video because of the type riding being done in it.


Try following the bouncing ball:

forums.mtbr.com
.
.
.
.
.
.
eSinglespeed


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## og-mtb (Sep 23, 2018)

craigsj said:


> It's a shame there isn't an auto-ban for stupid. Not a thing you've said in this thread is of any use to anyone.


Bummer. I had hope for you.

You only have yourself to blame for being so slow.


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## og-mtb (Sep 23, 2018)

craigsj said:


> It's sad that posters that offer nothing more than personal insults


What do you hope to gain by lying like this?

Since you have this new-found aversion to personal insults you should probably track down that goofy "craigsj" guy and whine about these feeble attempts:

"Also, when will you grow up?"

"It's a shame there isn't an auto-ban for stupid."


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## og-mtb (Sep 23, 2018)

craigsj said:


> I have no "new-found aversion to personal insults"


Exactly. You complain about personal insults yet your first reply, and subsequent replies, to me included a personal insult.

That is some delicious hypocrisy that you're serving up.


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## frantik! (Sep 10, 2012)

@craigsj try out the ignore feature, it's not perfect but already the site is vastly improved!


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## EricTheDood (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm gonna build the world's first motorless and battery-less e-bike.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

An electric motor has a flat torque curve, unlike a human, or internal combustion engine. eBikes have gears for the riders benefit only, since you can only pedal so fast. There's no reason you couldn't have an e-singlespeed, other than your inability for your legs to keep up.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

You have all very valid points. I was speaking in generalizations for sure. 

Not sure what you mean about an electric motors power band, other than that the torque curve will flatten as it approaches top speed. But youre spot on that with smaller motors, it will certainly accelerate a rider faster when geared down than a direct drive would. Pound for pound, motor size limitations, weight and battery capacities are probably much tighter than they are in other applications (r/c stuff, tesla cars, etc.) 

I'm sure a speed controller does impart some torque curve, and if you use batteries with insufficient C-rates, that will obviously affect it, but surely the combined drivetrain is still much flatter than an internal combustion engine, no?

Regardless thanks for calling me out on my BS. I deserved it.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

So I’m a recovering single speeder and muni rider. The thing about riding SS is you pick your gearing for the terrain and your fitness, speed on the downs is just coasting.

In my mind, the addition of epower is more to supplement those inevitable hike a bikes or long climbs where you just can’t sustain the climb. 

Of course, the use of epower on an SS begs the question of whether using a multi speed non epower drivetrain would be a better choice. 

If the OP is not really talking mtb single speed, but I’d instead interested in just having epower to replace gears, well then what you’re really talking about is a throttled electric moto.


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## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

The OP, me, was merely throwing it out there as a tag line out of curiosity more than anything after an initial outing on one(geared). I'm glad it has brought a jovial mix of responses in this forum compared to the ss forum. 

Ben, enlighten me on what exactly a recovering ss'er and "muni" rider means? 😎


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Well, there was a time when I leaned a bit more toward the simple things, white water paddling, distance running, and riding a fully rigid single speed; I even had a fixie wheel.

So then my son and I took the leap and swapped our bikes for mountain unicycles (muni).

I rode muni only for a bunch of years, multidays, endurance, lots of tech riding in Moab, then we moved to the big mountains and I drank the koolaid: gears and suspension.

Now that I'm in recovery, I ride a full suspension enduro and a full suspension XC bike.

But I still don't have cable or internet .... Luddite 



JMac47 said:


> The OP, me, was merely throwing it out there as a tag line out of curiosity more than anything after an initial outing on one(geared). I'm glad it has brought a jovial mix of responses in this forum compared to the ss forum.
> 
> Ben, enlighten me on what exactly a recovering ss'er and "muni" rider means? ?


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## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

Ok got it.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

craigsj said:


> I just mean range of RPM where the motor generates useful power.
> 
> Agreed, electric drives have far flatter torque curves even considering other factors.
> 
> ...


Perhaps a more sophisticated system, for example a motor with multiple windings that can be run in series or parallel to give a high-torque lowspeed range and a low-torque hight speed range with automatic switching would trade off complexity of design for simplicity of use. I'm thinking of an electrical version of the Schlumpf mountain drive; it has the attribute of a single speed with single sprocket and chainring but a mechanical advantage.

mountain drive

The dual-winding series/parallel electrical motor would have a high-torque mode and a low-torque mode, just like the Schlumpf. (These used to be sold by Harris Cyclery back in the Sheldon Brown days.)


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

craigsj said:


> That's an active area of research in motor design but dynamically configuring windings is easier said than done. What I've seen are two approaches, one is a kind of "motor within a motor" design where multiple contributors to the magnetics rotate at different speeds and the other is a dynamic configuration of magnetic poles. Don't understand this any better than that, but engineers are plenty interested in this.
> 
> Windings can be configured two ways, delta and wye, with the two having different speed/torque tradeoffs. The problem is switching between the two configurations. Some DIY people have pursued this but their solutions have been hacks. This design only offers two "speeds" not greatly differentiated so I don't think there's much interest in it commercially.
> 
> Regardless, a small motor that produces big torque without the aid of external gearing is a holy grail. Current solutions are either big and heavy or inefficient, fragile or noisy. Getting the weight down without sacrificing durability or noise is what they are all after.


What I'm proposing is that each phase is a bifilar winding where the windings are driven in series for high torque / low rpm but switched to parallel at higher RPM. So double the torque at the same current at low RPM. Twice the resistance but half the current for the same torque in low rpm mode means resistive power loss in high torque mode is doubled as opposed to quadrupled for a conventionally wound motor with equivalent torque.

My hypothetical motor's controller could pulse the motor between it's two modes to achieve a continuous transition between the high-torque and high-rpm states; it would probably feel a bit like an automatic transmission. Not exactly the simplicity of a single speed, except from the user's perspective - a commuter bike would take off quickly at street crossings or a mountain bike would feel easier on climbs without shifting.

Or we just take Nurse Ben's approach and give our hypothetical motor more turns of a smaller gauge (or alternatively just spin the motor faster) and allow the motor torque to naturally drop off at higher rpm, effectively shutting down at higher RPM. My Yamaha PW-SE motor sort-of does this; by 90 rpm torque has dropped considerably, probably because the motor has been geared / wound to optimize efficiency at low RPM trading off high cadence performance.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

JMac47 said:


> Could that be a "thing" in the future?


Definitely was a thing of the past. The Sondors campaign of 2015 on Indiegogo was hugely successful and was a single speed. It spawned many other CF and small business efforts based off of it also.









Ok for a throttle only maybe I want to pedal once in awhile type rider but otherwise if you want to actually get the most out of the e-biking experience you are going to need some gears.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Welp, here it is:

"Unlimited range" stealth e-bike never needs plugging in
_
Using a tilt sensor built into the back wheel, the drive unit can be set such that it only assists you on uphill climbs and taking off from a dead stop, giving you help where you need it most. And it recharges the battery with regenerative braking, and also sips a bit of power from you when you're pedaling along the flat or going downhill. The company says if you leave it in this mode, you can get around indefinitely without ever charging the thing - obviously this will depend on the terrain, but it's a neat idea.
_

Personally, this is what I think ebikes should be (only the mode above). Then they would live up to the claims made about helping out those that need a little help and I MIGHT consider them to be a bicycle and they would more closely act like bicycles. If someone wants a motor to help power them along beyond this then fine, but please don't claim it is a bicycle (and let's not argue this as that is going nowhere).

The above is not an emtb btw.


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## motocatfish (Mar 12, 2016)

Expensive, but COOL tech!
(https://newatlas.com/nua-electrica-stealth-ebike/59481/)

Catfish ...


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

chazpat said:


> Welp, here it is:
> 
> "Unlimited range" stealth e-bike never needs plugging in
> _
> ...


Sounds interesting but reading about this tech you see nothing is for free. The benefits are improved starts, climbs, and possibly no charging(???).

To get this possible no charging, a rider will be slower on the flats and downhill. I would imagine it would feel like riding into a strong head wind. The rider is now charger.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

I think so. 

I rode a singlespeed for five years and what makes it work is massive amounts of leg torque and conservation of momentum. It is insane what we could climb with these things.

So these new ebikes have 80 Nm of torque. A crazy amount!!!!! They would do wonders if allowed to unleash it all at the critical moments of low-rpm pedaling.

Right now, most manufacturers don't give all the torque until you hit 80 rpm. They want to protect the motor from heat and they want to simulate traditional riding and shifting.

But I want them to simulate and benefit from the physics of singlespeeding. Less motor shifting, less gear shifting. Just torque it up and keep momentum.

Maybe someday.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

fc said:


> I think so.
> 
> I rode a singlespeed for five years and what makes it work is massive amounts of leg torque and conservation of momentum. It is insane what we could climb with these things.
> 
> ...


The new Sachs RS motor is claimed to put out 110nm at low cadences. Which is over double a KTM 450. Seems like that would be plenty for a singlespeed.

https://ebike-mtb.com/en/first-ride-sachs-rs/

80nm is old news, the TQ motor is 120, and even the Brose S on the Levo is 90.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

fc said:


> I think so.
> 
> I rode a singlespeed for five years and what makes it work is massive amounts of leg torque and conservation of momentum. It is insane what we could climb with these things.
> 
> ...


At my 210 pounds pack plus body I'm likely putting 170 Nm into the crank when climbing; 80Nm isn't high torque by human standards. I'm against high-torque motors because high torque at low RPM implies high power at high cadences; in other words a high-torque motor can be modified to produce a high-power beast.


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