# Strava giving my son and I exactly the same times for segments when really way apart?



## Rattus (Feb 6, 2006)

Been using my new 520 and sinking it to my S6 phone so I can do live segments and auto upload etc, getting used to it and seems to work well.

Riding with my son he uses his phone S4mini to Strava his ride. He rides well but can't keep up with me yet and is way behind on some of the segments I have a crack at, yet when we get home and upload it has given him the exact same time as one of my segments (he actually didn't even ride that one) and 2 seconds slower than me on another that he was way behind on. All other aspects of the ride look correct except for those two segments. It did this a couple of days ago also, same problem.

I checked both our phones and they are logged into our seperate accounts properly. My 520 is also logged into my account properly.

I can't see how this error can even be possible :madman:

Any ideas anyone?

Next time I ride with him I will not sync my phone to the 520 and see if that helps. It will suck if I can't use the sync features when riding with him, means half the time I won't be able to use the 520 to it's potential.


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## Rattus (Feb 6, 2006)

Update....my wife that also rode with us and had no phone with her at all and used her Edge 200 and manually uploaded the ride through USB just found the same issue.

Her QOM was matched by our sons ride exactly the same time but we know it's wrong.

Seems to only be happening to Trophy awarded segments and no other segments.

So it's not because of my phone sync and not because we are uploading the ride at the same time and it's happening across three different accounts with totally different devices.

This is rubbish, it is making Strava unusable for us 

I will try giving my son my old Edge 305 to ride with instead of his phone, but he won't be happy with manual upload, can't blame him.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Strava is the devil.

Although I've thought about using it lately. google tracks has been messing up and won't record my rides properly. Does strava require a constant data signal during the ride, or can it just record the GPS portion and upload when on wifi?


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

When you look at the rides on "flyby", (zoomed in and slow-speed) do all you guys seemed locked together, or can you see the icons moving separately?

If they are locked together, then somehow the same track log must have been loaded to multiple accounts.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

It's not a Strava problem. It's a device problem.

You really ought to be using 1sec recording interval on the bike. Always. Especially if you want to use something like Strava segments.

I don't know what settings you're using on your Edge 520, or your son's phone, but your wife's Edge 200 is incapable of a 1sec recording interval. I'll suspect that at least one of you between you and your son, is using a less frequent recording interval.

That will screw up segment timing every time. 

Strava doesn't require data for recording. On the rare occasions I need to use my phone to record with the Strava app, I put my phone into airplane mode to save on battery life. The only thing strava uses data for, is to display a map of your location. But that doesn't solve the data recording problem.

This is an old, well-known problem with Strava, that people with certain devices are given faster segment times than they should. It's essentially a data paucity problem. With infrequent recording intervals, Strava has to figure out how to handle a ride where the last recorded point isn't exactly at the end of a segment. It has to extrapolate, or something. I'm not sure exactly HOW it handles the problem. I just know it is one, and people who are too serious about their segment times get upset about people who appear too high on the segment rankings (sometimes, they will be ranked higher than someone with a better device that recorded timing and positioning more accurately).

It's really not strava's fault that they have to account for $hit data along with quality data. On your next ride with your son, give him your old Edge 305. Have him run it alongside his phone and have him compare the data on strava from the two devices. That should help you to determine whether his phone records junk data.

Also check the settings on your Edge 520. Make sure it's using 1sec recording.


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## Rattus (Feb 6, 2006)

Thanks for the replies.....I already have my 520 set for 1sec intervals so that is not the issue.

We are riding in an area close to the city with very good phone coverage and not much tree cover.

I also noticed this morning that my ride has uploaded twice.....but I think that was my error as I uploaded at the end of my ride from my phone and my garmin. I will get used to that.


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## Rattus (Feb 6, 2006)

Righto did another check and went out on my own riding with my 520 and my phone. I think I'm making a noob 520 mistake as i have been using Strava on my phone with Synced to the 520 and upon reflection I assume I don't need Strava actually running on my phone to use live segments. Should I just sync my phone to the 520 and not run Strava on my phone?

Anyway when I got home and uploaded the ride from the Garmin and stopped the recording on my phone it uploaded two rides, one of them for me and one for my son (I rode solo) so it counted my phone recording as my son eventhough I was logged into my Strava account on my phone and I checked his phone and he was logged in on his phone to his account.

I'm going to try deleting Strava from both our phones and re-downloading from the play store.


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## Rattus (Feb 6, 2006)

ghettocruiser said:


> When you look at the rides on "flyby", (zoomed in and slow-speed) do all you guys seemed locked together, or can you see the icons moving separately?
> 
> If they are locked together, then somehow the same track log must have been loaded to multiple accounts.


Thanks....I checked that and did notice that behaviour happening at one stage but only for part of the ride, still in the process of tracking down why it's happening.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

Heck I rode with my friend and his sister. She put her phone in his pack with his and both had difference times. Both the same phones the same provider. Its not the most accurate tool out there.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I don't think deleting and redownloading will change anything. Harold's got it.

Zoom way in on your son's track. Is it really jagged?

If you want to compete, pin a number on. I enjoy Strava, but I don't think it's very precise.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Rattus said:


> Righto did another check and went out on my own riding with my 520 and my phone. I think I'm making a noob 520 mistake as i have been using Strava on my phone with Synced to the 520 and upon reflection I assume I don't need Strava actually running on my phone to use live segments. Should I just sync my phone to the 520 and not run Strava on my phone?
> 
> Anyway when I got home and uploaded the ride from the Garmin and stopped the recording on my phone it uploaded two rides, one of them for me and one for my son (I rode solo) so it counted my phone recording as my son eventhough I was logged into my Strava account on my phone and I checked his phone and he was logged in on his phone to his account.
> 
> I'm going to try deleting Strava from both our phones and re-downloading from the play store.


I don't even understand 3/4 of what you just said here. Don't run Strava on your phone if you are using a Garmin, unless you want to compare the recorded files from each device.


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

If you had two devices logging on the same rider and uploaded them to different strava accounts, then that could account for what you are seeing.

There could be enough variation between devices to make it look like small gaps were opening and closing between the "riders" in flyby replay mode, even though the GPS units were attached to the same guy. And the segment times would still end up almost the same.


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## bbqmike (Jan 5, 2016)

Rattus said:


> Righto did another check and went out on my own riding with my 520 and my phone. I think I'm making a noob 520 mistake as i have been using Strava on my phone with Synced to the 520 and upon reflection I assume I don't need Strava actually running on my phone to use live segments. Should I just sync my phone to the 520 and not run Strava on my phone?
> 
> Anyway when I got home and uploaded the ride from the Garmin and stopped the recording on my phone it uploaded two rides, one of them for me and one for my son (I rode solo) so it counted my phone recording as my son eventhough I was logged into my Strava account on my phone and I checked his phone and he was logged in on his phone to his account.
> 
> I'm going to try deleting Strava from both our phones and re-downloading from the play store.


I do not open strava prior to a ride, just record on the garmin, and if it doesn't automatically sync, I'll open connect on the phone to see if its syncing, then you get a notification from Strava that your ride is ready to upload.


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## Rattus (Feb 6, 2006)

Harold said:


> I don't even understand 3/4 of what you just said here. Don't run Strava on your phone if you are using a Garmin, unless you want to compare the recorded files from each device.


There is no simpler way to explain what is happening sorry.

I my next ride I won't run Strava on my phone but I don't think that will solve all the issues.

Doesn't explain why my Android Strava account uploaded my ride to my sons Strava account even though I was logged into my account.

It also doesn't explain why my sons phone is stealing our trophy rides for him when either my wife or I ride with him. Seems out of 4 different devices running Strava that none of them are working properly.

I thought the 520 with Strava would be a step forward not back.
Garmin should give up with software altogether and just manafacture hardware for Strava. Now we have Connect, Garmin and Strava.....who wants or needs 3 logins, but to use Strava live you need all 3 it's rubbish.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Same here. Pinhoti 3 is a long nasty climb, then turn around and it's a long gnarly downhill back! I can consistently beat my buddy by ~2 minutes on the downhill. I run a 510 he runs his phone. It gives him times either equivalent or faster than me even though I can be half way through a power bar by the time he gets to the bottom. LOL



Harold said:


> Make sure it's using 1sec recording.


Didn't even know this was a setting. THANKS!


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## bbqmike (Jan 5, 2016)

It might be worth disconnecting and reconnecting your account on strava, while disconnected, re-pair the 520 with connect, then reconnect to strava. 

You can also go into settings > apps > strava, and garmin and clear data and cache


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Rattus said:


> There is no simpler way to explain what is happening sorry.
> 
> I my next ride I won't run Strava on my phone but I don't think that will solve all the issues.
> 
> ...


Sometimes something can be explained too simply. Your previous post was a good case for that. Now that you've supplied many of those missing details, I've got a better idea of what's happening. You have a LOT going on in your household with multiple different devices recording rides, and sending them lots of places.

Yes, the way wireless uploads work for you is complicated, but that's how it works. The Strava app is not set up to accept data from other devices. That's not what it does. It's built to record its own data. The decision to send your Garmin data there is your own. You don't HAVE to do that. It's a whole lot simpler to just plug your Garmin in and upload straight to the Strava website if that's where you want your data to go in the end.

"But we MUST HAVE wireless uploading!" I hear that argument all the time. It's BS. The whole wireless upload process has added complication, not removed it.

I agree with bbqmike that you should remove ALL device and account connections. Something got crosses or confused or otherwise screwed up somewhere along the line. With all that complication, you're going to need to set things back up correctly and make sure it works before moving on to the next setup.

And to keep things from getting crossed, don't login to different accounts on the same device. One device, one account. I don't know if that's what you're doing for sure or not, but it sounds like it could be the case. Resist the temptation. That right there is a huge possible source of said mistake that got accounts crossed and ride data sent to the wrong places.


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## Rattus (Feb 6, 2006)

Thanks for the suggestions, I had already cleared the Android Strava data and cashe before my last ride so that didn't help and we only use our own devices for each account so it's not that.
But I have thought of something else that could be part of the problem. 
When I got the 520 I signed up for the three months free Strava premium. But when I did I found that my Lastpass password manager had auto logged in to my sons account halfway through the process. So I downgraded him back so I won't be auto billed when it runs out. Then I tried again and got the three months for my account also. Because it worked I assumed that the offer must not be linked to the device but given to anyone willing to part with their credit card details. But maybe there is a link......I will try removing my 520 from my account and re adding along with doing the same for my son.
If that doesn't work it might be time to ring Garmin tech support if there is such a thing. 

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Go to strava's website and disconnect it from your Garmin account.

Now I see why you're having so much trouble.

It becomes increasingly apparent that your setup has too many dependencies to keep it all straight in your head. Now you've got a password manager added to the mix.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Rattus said:


> Thanks for the replies.....I already have my 520 set for 1sec intervals so that is not the issue...


Sounds like a lot of other stuff has been going on as well, but I just wanted to comment on this statement. This issue is not your Edge using 1 sec intervals, it is your son's phone NOT using 1 second intervals. As Harold described, if your son's phone records a data point at some point prior to the end of a segment and then the next data point several seconds later that happens to be at some point after the end of the segment, then how does Strava handle that? I think it records his segment passage as ending at the time and place of the last data point still within the segment, thus granting him a shorter time for that segment passage than it actually took.

Now your Edge has more data points with the 1 second interval, so the same scenario on your Edge will still result in a segment passage time that more closely reflects the true time since data points are only 1 second apart.

You do not need or want to have Strava running in any way on your phone to use your Edge and all of its capabilities.


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## Rattus (Feb 6, 2006)

Thanks for all the help with this, sorry I took so long to get back but I wanted to test all scenarios to make sure it was resolved before posting. 

In the end I rang Garmin support and explained the problem, due to the complexities the call took some time and some referrals to their own supervisory tech help. Big thumbs up to Garmin phone support.

But in the end the answer was to go to my sons Strava profile and select My Account / Social Connections and disconnect the top one which is the symbol for garmin, bit cryptic because it doesn't say garmin anywhere.

This worked for us and there seems to be no further issue.......but only because my son is using his phone for Strava....if he was using a Garmin I assume this fix would not work.

Anyway I hope this long thread is of some use to someone else down the track and thanks very much to all those who offered advice


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## matt420c (Oct 22, 2015)

me and my riding buddy both use strava, we kept wondering how he was having a avg speed 1-2mph higher than me, when I am the leader. So we put both phones in my pack one day and his phone (IPhone 6 and mine is a S6) was still saying he rode 1.5mph faster avg speed than me, even though both phones were in my pack. 

We then determined strava was not very accurate and thus take the results with a grain of salt


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

I'd try running two different tracking apps concurrently on the phone and compare, you'll see different results in speeds, time, etc. Also, try exporting your gpx file to another app like endomondo or mapmyride or something. you'll see different results on those as well. It's all about how an app reads data that's pretty lousy to begin with.


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## wcoyne (May 10, 2014)

I'm laughing reading this thread because my cousin and i see that same results. I use a garmin edge 1000 and he uses his android phone and I always beat him on all trails by 15-20 seconds and his strava times are better than mine.


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## luvdabeach2001 (Nov 11, 2011)

wcoyne said:


> I'm laughing reading this thread because my cousin and i see that same results. I use a garmin edge 1000 and he uses his android phone and I always beat him on all trails by 15-20 seconds and his strava times are better than mine.


Either Strava needs to have KOM's for each recording device or they need to only allow one device for recording. Lost or missed KOM's due to device incompatibility has to stop. Maybe a class action will get them to change.

JK!


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

it's simple. the only time Strava is accurate is when you end up KOM. otherwise, there's something wrong.


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## luvdabeach2001 (Nov 11, 2011)

nhodge said:


> it's simple. the only time Strava is accurate is when you end up KOM. otherwise, there's something wrong.


So if I understand you correctly, Strava is never accurate.


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## Raymo853 (Jan 13, 2004)

nhodge said:


> it's simple. the only time Strava is accurate is when you end up KOM. otherwise, there's something wrong.


I love you

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Raymo853 (Jan 13, 2004)

The orginal poster did find this was a Steava connection problem. However for many, this is less of a Strava problem and a problem attribution to location determination. GPS and the multiple other location determination procedures smart phones use, are not nearly as accurate as many think. The best units can be off by meters, the worse by 10's of meters. That uncertainly can make it easy for your time beginning and ending a segment to be off by many seconds. This is why Strava says there is no reliable accuracy of any segment that takes less than 60 seconds or is shorter than 500 meters long. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## scooterman (Aug 10, 2004)

There is a segment on the hill side between 2 mountain bike areas where I live. I saw a few people were in the top 5 that i was like that's not possible. So I went to KOM the segment and didn't get it. I week later I went for it again and did it what I think is about the fastest anyone could possibly go on it with exceptions of some actual pro mountain bikers. Still no KOM. I then started looking at the other riders rides, it turns out it was giving people the segment when they rode on the road that is about 100 ft from the trail. These consumer GPS devices and strava are very inaccurate. I've recorded rides with my phone and gps at the same time. Segment times often vary by 10 secs especially in the woods.


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