# Mill Collets - Anybody Know What I Have Here?



## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Hey all;

I have this spindle and collet setup in my mill. I see these collets _NOWHERE_ and I need some replacements. The spindle is labeled "Universal Eng. Co. Y #9 B&S." Anybody know these old dudes?


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## Smudgemo (Nov 30, 2005)

If you don't get a suitable answer here, try this forum: The Home Shop Machinist & Machinist's Workshop Magazine's BBS - Powered by vBulletin

I'd be surprised if they can't get you an answer.


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## edoz (Jan 16, 2004)

Sounds like what you have on that collet holder is a Browne & Sharpe #9 taper. My mill is the same, and I got a set of collets from LittleMachineShop.com - Collets, 9BS Set of 11

The smaller collets look like some sort of ER size, but I'm not an expert on that stuff.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Ya Know...

It's amazing how, when you don't know what something is called, you can't find squat, but when you find its name, you find it everywhere? I looked everywhere for B&S #9, but that refers to the spindle, not the collet, and I saw NOTHING about these collets. Well, these are called a Z-collet, or alternately Tree or Double Taper Collet. They are old and not popular anymore, but they are around. Sort of like me. No.. that's not true. I'm not THAT old. 

Well... more info for the archive anyway. Thanks Peter.


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

those are Universal Engineering collets. I used to know the name for them, but I have forgotten. You see them on ebay occasionally, almost certain you will not be able to buy what you want for an economic price unless you find them used. Looks like Universal was purchased and the new owners didn't know what to do with the company, but I can't be sure

I see you figured it out, but I would think they are the "Y" size, not "Z" -- in fact, it looks like your chuck says "Y" on it.

If you buy any, I would ask the seller to take a measurement, it's not like they are going to sell quickly


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Ummm...

Duh.. so that is what the "Y" on the spindle is for? Geez. I'm getting less dumb really slow.


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

sorry, I edited my post a couple of times. It appears to me that you have the "Y" style, but it's nearly impossible to tell without more information. There are quite a few of these on ebay right now. Search for "universal collet"

I picked up a couple of odd lots of tooling on ebay a while back that had various different sizes of these. The biggest was being used to hold the chuck for the smallest.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

unterhausen said:


> sorry, I edited my post a couple of times.


No, no;

The duh was for me, not you. The Y on the spindle might have been a clue what type it was for... if I had known there was such a thing. I'm getting there. Thanks for all your help, everyone.


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## doug fattic (Mar 11, 2010)

I have a South Bend vertical mill (made in the 50's) that uses collets that look like the one in your picture (not the Brown and Sharpe one). They are 1 1/2" long. On the spindle there is an inscription that says Z-30 MM universal. If you go on eBay right now under the category of South Bend mill you will find a couple of Z collets for auction. I am skeptical that there is also a Y collet. Anyway if your collets are 1.5" long than they are probably the same collets used in South Bend mills. The South Bend company made a lot of lathes but few mills. I used to go by the factory on my way to buy paint but they tore it down a couple of years ago. 

Another source for information is The Machinery Handbook. They have a chart that matches collets to the maker of a lathe or mill.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Thanks Doug;

The collets measure 1.0625 long, .8125D at the largest point, the small taper side is .375 long, and the longer taper side is .6875 long. Maximum shank of tool held appears to be .500D as the hole in the clamping nut is .600D. Since I do find collets called "Y" I must assume that a spindle labeled Y is made for that spec.

I do see them out there, and so it looks like I will be able to do what I need to. Thanks for the advice, all.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

You don't have a Wells Index mill by chance, do you?


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Nope.


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## Andy FitzGibbon (Jul 7, 2007)

doug fattic said:


> I have a South Bend vertical mill (made in the 50's) that uses collets that look like the one in your picture (not the Brown and Sharpe one). They are 1 1/2" long. On the spindle there is an inscription that says Z-30 MM universal. If you go on eBay right now under the category of South Bend mill you will find a couple of Z collets for auction. I am skeptical that there is also a Y collet. Anyway if your collets are 1.5" long than they are probably the same collets used in South Bend mills. The South Bend company made a lot of lathes but few mills. I used to go by the factory on my way to buy paint but they tore it down a couple of years ago.
> 
> Another source for information is The Machinery Handbook. They have a chart that matches collets to the maker of a lathe or mill.


There were actually six different sizes of the Universal Engineering collets: OW, WW, Y, Z, ZZ, and XZ. Here's the measurements for all of them:
Double Taper Collet

They were mostly used in collet chucks and boring heads. Doug,I would guess that your South Bend mill actually has the standard 30 taper quick release spindle, with the factory-accessory South Bend Z collet chuck installed. It's held in by two set screws on the sides of the mill spindle.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Great link, Andy

Just what I needed to know. Thanks a TON!


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## IBBW (Mar 24, 2006)

*collets*

What sizes do you need?


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## cataño (Sep 7, 2009)

I have an old gorton mill which at some point in its life was adapted to take universal Z collets. I imagine it was a way to get around using the proprietary gorton collets which are rare and expensive. Z collets are available on ebay in every conceivable fractional, metric, drill, etc size imaginable for not a lot of money. I think I paid less than $7/collet for the few I needed.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Hey;

I don't know if the Z collets will fit in a Y holder at all, let alone usefully. Ys are out there, but they are not nearly as common. In checking, I actually have a nice basic selection; 3/16, 1/4, 5/16, 3/8, 1/2. Of course I can buy most cutters in these shank sizes, and I have also figured out and ordered new arbors for my Jacobs Superchucks (so I can use them), so it is not urgent to have other more "obscure" fractional sizes. I'd just like to have spares for what I do have, I guess.

Geez, looking back I can see how ignorant I sounded even a few days ago. Maybe I'll get this all put together yet?!


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

UPDATE:

Indeed I did have Y type double taper collets for that first holder. Max tool shank .500". I have since located a couple of Z collet B&S #9 holders and a large selection of collets (1 is for sale with some collets included). Max tool shank of .750". Very recently I scored a ZZ tool holder with 3 collets. Max tool shank of 1"! I've learned a whole bunch about these, and when I add a couple of key ZZ collet sizes, I will be quite well set for vertical milling!


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## 11 Bravo (Mar 12, 2004)

If you really want to get crazy, Wells-Index can regrind the B&S #9 spindles to make them take R-8 collets.

The service runs about $250. You would have to e-mail them about your machine, they don't really advertise the service, and it is targeted for older Wells-Index models. I have seen reference to guys having other machines converted though.

Wells Index - CNC or manual knee type milling machines, vertical, horizontal and combination mills


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