# High heart rate for an "middle Age" guy



## JBarn (Jan 7, 2010)

My hear rate has always been on the high side ( including a resting of 58/60).

I do approx 12 races of all kinds during the year and try to keep it under 170 but I was surprised after my last 30 minute CX race that I averaged 179..

When you do the 220-age (58), I should have a max of 162... one of my training buddies was as the same race and averaged 135 at close to the same pace.

Anyone else out there with high RPM's? 

I've heard some just run higher ( not better or worse ).

Thanks


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

JBarn said:


> My hear rate has always been on the high side ( including a resting of 58/60).
> 
> I do approx 12 races of all kinds during the year and try to keep it under 170 but I was surprised after my last 30 minute CX race that I averaged 179..
> 
> ...


I'm 55, and my resting is 55-56-ish, and I use 180 for my max (am rarely in the 170's, but hit 178 recently, for 5 seconds). I'm pretty fit and trained.

If you averaged 179 for 30 mins, your max is higher than mine. For fit and trained people, you can toss out the 220-age calculation.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ToastR (Sep 21, 2005)

Another data point:
I’m 51, race in Sport class
Resting HR 48-50
May XCO race: Ave-173 / Max-189
June XCO race: 177 / 188
July XCO race: 175 / 190
Aug XCO race: 175 / 185
The max I see in early season intervals the last 3 yrs is 190-192 and that settles in at mid/upper 180s as the season progresses.


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## russinthecascades (Jun 1, 2013)

I'm 67 with a measured resting hr of 52. The challenge has been to determine my max hr since the general formula doesn't apply. I just looked at my data and chose 164 based on a consistent number during a .5 mile climb that do several times a season and push myself on. I still can get an occasional spike to 167 or 169, but settled on the 164 to determine training zones. Without a trend mill study I'm not sure what else to do but it's been working. Recently got a Wahoo Elemnt and trying to use the hr zone led indicators to make sure I'm getting into zone 4 for a decent part of the ride.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

russinthecascades said:


> ...I still can get an occasional spike to 167 or 169...


If you get a spike to that, that's your max or below your max. Max is max, not an average or a rate sustainable for any amount of time. Back in my early 60s I'd hit 181 but only after repeated very very hard efforts in competitive situations. Most I'd ever hit riding on my own was maybe 175.


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## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

That 220 minus age is useless. My boss and I are 14 days apart in age (56 years old). My max HR is somewhere over 190 while his is 170 or so. We are both in similar shape.

Yesterday I did a hard effort and max HR hit 190. I attribute that to being out of shape. Last year I did the same segment 11 seconds faster, with 40 watts higher average power and had a HR 8 beats slower.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

I'm 57 with a resting rate of 60-62. My max routinely gets to 192. I was concerned about it at first, but when I spoke with my doc, he asked me several questions including, "How did you feel?". I told him I felt fine and as soon as I stopped, my HR went back under 100 within a minute. He said not to worry about it.

He said he could give me a cardiac stress test, but he would likely not push me as hard nor as long as I push myself anyway, so we got a baseline EKG and ran a few tests.


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## SoDakSooner (Nov 23, 2005)

I am out of shape for me, but might touch the low 180's for a short effort. Typically in the average 150's for longer rides. Resting, mid 50's. catches up quick. Only 5 years ago I could stay in the 170's all day (I was 30 lbs lighter too) with resting HR in the mid 40's. Man to be young again. I have noticed as I get back in better shape, my max is going up slightly.


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## russinthecascades (Jun 1, 2013)

Lone Rager said:


> If you get a spike to that, that's your max or below your max. Max is max, not an average or a rate sustainable for any amount of time.


Thanks for the info - I was thinking of max hr as a target rather than actual performance number. Since I felt fine when it spiked to 169 and returns quickly to lower numbers, I'll adjust my numbers on the Wahoo.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

chuckha62 said:


> I'm 57 with a resting rate of 60-62. My max routinely gets to 192. ...


I used to hit 191 in my early 50s. I've lost essentially 1bpm per year since then. My resting is ~46bpm.


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## rob214 (Apr 18, 2019)

57 and my resting is 40, my max is 145.


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## bwana (Oct 8, 2012)

does anyone have a device to measure blood pressure while on a ride?


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

bwana said:


> does anyone have a device to measure blood pressure while on a ride?


Is that even possible?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

bwana said:


> does anyone have a device to measure blood pressure while on a ride?


Devices are out there. Here is one:

https://omronhealthcare.com/products/heartguide-wearable-blood-pressure-monitor-bp8000m/


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## JBarn (Jan 7, 2010)

Thanks for the replies.... I'll plan on hammering in Sunday's MTB race and let it rev.


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## tubbnation (Jul 6, 2015)

I'll be 53 next month. Survived a widowmaker in 2005. 6ft, 170lbs. Fitness is decent. Bike about 90-100mi weekly and fill in the gaps with drums, weights, paddle-boarding and skateboarding.

Resting is low 50's. Max is 225.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

The thing of 220 minus...
is just a thing.
Some average and definitely wrong for many.
At 61 i know my max is high. Last 20 years without a car i pedal daily.
No race but thin and in shape. My 63 YO brother a roadie last 20 years
also higher than ** supposed **
Using those numbers is useless. What you eat affects them, what u drink also.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Assuming all is normal it seems like a higher heart rate would be a good thing, moving more blood = more available oxygen. My max is about 170bpm but I have to really push the pace to average mid-130's. 57 y/o.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

^^^ I don't think it works that way. Total blood flow is likely comparable between individuals with typically high HRs and those with lower HRs as athletic performance does not correlate to max HR. I suspect that those with high max HR push less volume per beat compared to those with lower max HR such that the total flow is the same. (correcting for age, fitness, body mass, etc. etc. etc.)


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

J.B. Weld said:


> Assuming all is normal it seems like a higher heart rate would be a good thing, moving more blood = more available oxygen. My max is about 170bpm but I have to really push the pace to average mid-130's. 57 y/o.


The higher #s at rest means the plumbing is clogged. This is a bad thing. Everyday the person is not nourishing the brain properly Alhzeimer has started. When symptoms appear it was there for a long time. Eating better that will be reversed since every cell is smart and given the chance we heal. Just like loosing weight.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

I will be 60 next month and I've never monitored my HR...maybe it's time to start. Over the last few years my 'posse' has dwindled and at least one of my 3 rides/week is solo. I tend to push myself harder and take fewer breaks because there's nobody to bs with. Riding with friends or a group has its benefits but I sometimes get frustrated waiting for others who may be slower, have mechanical issues or having different preferences for loops to take. I really enjoy an occasional solo ride where there's no distractions and I have 100% focus on the trail. I've been the same way skiing...some of my best days are solo.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Lone Rager said:


> ^^^ I don't think it works that way. Total blood flow is likely comparable between individuals with typically high HRs and those with lower HRs as athletic performance does not correlate to max HR. I suspect that those with high max HR push less volume per beat compared to those with lower max HR such that the total flow is the same. (correcting for age, fitness, body mass, etc. etc. etc.)


Yeah I don't know the science, just guessing. Young people have higher heart rates and are better athletes, I don't think anyone is competing in the TDF with a max hr of 170bpm. Meaningless info perhaps but there is at least correlation 



33red said:


> The higher #s at rest means the plumbing is clogged. This is a bad thing. Everyday the person is not nourishing the brain properly Alhzeimer has started. When symptoms appear it was there for a long time. Eating better that will be reversed since every cell is smart and given the chance we heal. Just like loosing weight.


I was talking about max heart rate, not resting. I realize a high resting hr isn't a good thing.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

JBarn said:


> My hear rate has always been on the high side ( including a resting of 58/60).


Normal resting heart rate is 60-100bpm.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Some of us just have higher heart rates. I had some concern and shared Apple Watch health data with my doctor. She said not to worry in the context of the watch counting 40 - 90 minutes of a day's activity as exercise and the evidence that I don't sit too much.

Hitting age 60 has and back problems have made it impossible to do things I've been doing but the doc said don't worry based on pants size and activity. Don't worry if I remain generally mindful of how I feel and back off when I'm sustaining 150 +.


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## eri (Sep 4, 2012)

The prescriptive use of heart rate max formulas are a huge pet peve of mine. First notice that actual medical sites usually state that this applies for most but not all people.

What i heard happened is long ago some cardiac dr treating obese elderly cardiac patients graphed heart rate by age and found a linear fit using 220-age. Later papers published new equations that better fit larger sample populations. But remember: These are population fits, they work well for average but theres no logic to apply them to everyone.

Some sites warn that 'only elite athletes' need the new advanced equations, which is idiotic because elite athletes would base their zones on an lt test.

I'm in early 50s and see peaks of 189. In high school i had a stress test that peaked at 235.

I think max matters because you need to know if youre experiencing tachycardia, but for setting zones it doesnt work for me. For me breath is a great indicator of zone.

I wish some national health group would clear this up, most docters dont know this stuff.


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## rmac (Oct 26, 2004)

57. Recent resting heart rate (at docs' office) 43. Recent max (from fitbit) 178. I will wear the fitbit for heart rate info for a couple of weeks after reading a 'fitness' book and then give up when I can't correlate the data.

Funny heart rate story - I had a few heart attacks last year (not realizing they were heart attacks) all while riding hard and when I finally went to the hospital (where they determined I had had a heart attack) and was plugged into all the machines, my heart rate dropped to 34 and all kinds of alarms went off bringing a crowd of people to my room. I told them I was thinking about my last mountain bike ride and it always takes me to a wonderfully relaxed place. I don't think they believed me.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

BlueCheesehead said:


> Devices are out there. Here is one:
> 
> https://omronhealthcare.com/products/heartguide-wearable-blood-pressure-monitor-bp8000m/


Wow...that's pretty wild! I use the traditional cuff to gauge mine as needed.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

JBarn said:


> Thanks for the replies.... I'll plan on hammering in Sunday's MTB race and let it rev.


Of course, if this is of high concern, see your doc for piece of mind.

A cx race will raise your HR quickly if you're attacking from the gate.

HR is very individual, too.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> Yeah I don't know the science, just guessing. Young people have higher heart rates and are better athletes, I don't think anyone is competing in the TDF with a max hr of 170bpm. ....


Yeah. You might have notices that I said correcting for age, among other things. Younger people have a lot more going for them than just higher HRs. And, among young athletes, max HR does not correlate with performance.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Crankout said:


> Wow...that's pretty wild! I use the traditional cuff to gauge mine as needed.


That "watch" has an integral cuff in the band so works the same way. IDK how well it would work while actively riding. I had a cardio stress test and they made me stop to check my BP.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

56 and resting is 80bpm and BP is 118-68. 25 miles a week now


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Resting HR for me is 52-60/minute depending upon where I'm resting. My riding HR gets up to the high 160s-170's depending on the altitude that I'm really hammering at.

I'm expecting much improved in coming weeks/months. My age is 66 .

-Ray.


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## ScaldedDogCO (Sep 22, 2016)

33red said:


> The higher #s at rest means the plumbing is clogged. This is a bad thing. Everyday the person is not nourishing the brain properly Alhzeimer has started. When symptoms appear it was there for a long time. Eating better that will be reversed since every cell is smart and given the chance we heal. Just like loosing weight.


Are you suggesting that people with low resting heart rates and no cardiovascular disease don't get Alhzeimers or other forms of dementia? I hope not, as it is patently false.

Mark

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

ScaldedDogCO said:


> Are you suggesting that people with low resting heart rates and no cardiovascular disease don't get Alhzeimers or other forms of dementia? I hope not, as it is patently false.
> 
> Mark
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


I have not looked at all forms of dementia. My Mom and dad had/have Alz. The brain is the #1 user of oxygen in humans so bad plumbing does affect it. When the large tubing is restricted so is the small. They have proven that better eating for the heart(vessels) decreases Alz probability. So far genetics seems to be a small factor but the medical field doubles its knowledge every 4-5 years, so it is quite limited.


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## JBarn (Jan 7, 2010)

rmac said:


> 57. Recent resting heart rate (at docs' office) 43. Recent max (from fitbit) 178. I will wear the fitbit for heart rate info for a couple of weeks after reading a 'fitness' book and then give up when I can't correlate the data.
> 
> Funny heart rate story - I had a few heart attacks last year (not realizing they were heart attacks) all while riding hard and when I finally went to the hospital (where they determined I had had a heart attack) and was plugged into all the machines, my heart rate dropped to 34 and all kinds of alarms went off bringing a crowd of people to my room. I told them I was thinking about my last mountain bike ride and it always takes me to a wonderfully relaxed place. I don't think they believed me.


Great story! Glad you are ok!


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## ScaldedDogCO (Sep 22, 2016)

33red said:


> I have not looked at all forms of dementia. My Mom and dad had/have Alz. The brain is the #1 user of oxygen in humans so bad plumbing does affect it. When the large tubing is restricted so is the small. They have proven that better eating for the heart(vessels) decreases Alz probability. So far genetics seems to be a small factor but the medical field doubles its knowledge every 4-5 years, so it is quite limited.


I'll take that as a 'no'. Sorry to hear about your folks. My Dad has dementia, too, and at 94 is physically very fit. The disease has stolen him from us, though. His resting HR was always in the upper 40s, as was mine, but I was a semi-competitive runner.

It's an awful, cruel disease, and I wish simple fitness could innoculate us against it.

Mark

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

ScaldedDogCO said:


> Are you suggesting that people with low resting heart rates and no cardiovascular disease don't get Alhzeimers or other forms of dementia? I hope not, as it is patently false.
> 
> Mark
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Research has shown that aerobic exercise can slow cognitive decline, and also a possible link between aerobic exercise and the prevention of Alzheimer's and dementia.


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## rob214 (Apr 18, 2019)

HR and BP are completely different. high BP means clogged or something worse. HR being high wether resting or during activity means other things. physically fit people generally have a low resting HR not 100% but typically. high BP in folks over 40 - 50 is generally bad and your doc will want to give you old people meds. cholesterol / statin type meds. having high HR during exercise is dependent on the individual. I compare myself to others while on rides and my low HR is genetic from my dad. most of my riding buddies get the HR into the high 180's to low 200's. my brother has more normal HR in the 170's but is a rider also and his resting is in the middle 40's.
monitoring BP while exercising I don't think will be useful as most doctors tell me to rest a minimum of a couple hours after riding before taking my BP and to wait a couple of hours after I wake up from sleeping all night. since I've had a stroke I'm being monitored by my doctors staff on a monthly bases to establish a pattern wether good or bad. right now I'm doing great with a monthly average of 125/76. food can cause your BP to be high for hours after eating. some foods are very hard on the blood system. when monitoring your BP the bottom number shows a direct correlation to your diet. even though I'm not at my desired weight my doctor seems ok with it but encourages me to continue to try to loose weight.
also in response to athletic folks with some age doctors will start to tell them to keep the HR away from max to not stress the heart. one of my riding buddies is 77 and still really strong roadie but his doc doesn't want his HR over 170 so on his Garmin he had a warning setup and he's as strong as I am riding and some days even stronger so he give s me hope that I can be that active in 20 years.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

rob214 said:


> also in response to athletic folks with some age doctors will start to tell them to keep the HR away from max to not stress the heart. one of my riding buddies is 77 and still really strong roadie but his doc doesn't want his HR over 170 so on his Garmin he had a warning setup and he's as strong as I am riding and some days even stronger so he give s me hope that I can be that active in 20 years.


I don't think that's right. Maybe for your buddy that's not the norm.


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## rob214 (Apr 18, 2019)

J.B. Weld said:


> I don't think that's right. Maybe for your buddy that's not the norm.


just going by what the doctor told him, I don't know his health record just what I was told by him.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

rob214 said:


> just going by what the doctor told him, I don't know his health record just what I was told by him.


I'm not doubting that, just saying that's not normal advice for an aging athlete. I'm sure we'll all eventually reach a point when redlining our hearts isn't such a good thing though.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> I'm not doubting that, just saying that's not normal advice for an aging athlete. I'm sure we'll all eventually reach a point when redlining our hearts isn't such a good thing though.


On my daily commute to work, i keep my cars engine at redline during 20% of the drive. This is good for for my car as it keeps the engine well exercised. Not! Instead i keep the air filter clean, oil fresh, and use the best quality fuel i can get.

max heart rate really means your doing something wrong. Because its not a sustainable operation of your heart! IMO. I know that my obese friend probably hits max heart rate on moderate exercise. Eg. A few flights of stairs.

If you want to do a fitness test, would you not look for the lowest heart rate that produces the highest sustained wattage output? Thats where you should look to operate your heart. As u improve your training, you will likely see the wattage increase and not so much the heart rate. Its the conversion rate of energy stored to watts that defines our fitness IMO.

i feel like im so so in fitness. As my fitness is still improving with my training. Eg. my last 30km xc loop was better than a month ago. My heart rate is getting lower and staying lower on average during my rides.

Interesting bp fact. I was in the dr's office the other day and they said bp looks good. Okay i said. Do you mind if we run it again. But for one minute prior and during the test i will close my eyes and think about the stress of my last highway drive to city x. Went up 20 from the earlier measurement.

question. Does anyone else find it hard to remain relaxed while taking your own heart rate measurement?

OP. Your buddy sounds like his fitness allows him to produce the energy needed at a lower heart rate. He may be able to produce more energy but the conversion rate may plateau and then find his heart rate steadily and quickly increase.

Which is the longer distance rider?
it would be interesting to see some heart rate tracking on a long slow climb done at some different cadences.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Fuse6F said:


> On my daily commute to work, i keep my cars engine at redline during 20% of the drive. This is good for for my car as it keeps the engine well exercised. Not! Instead i keep the air filter clean, oil fresh, and use the best quality fuel i can get.


I am not a car, and you absolutely do have to be hitting max heart rate at times if you are racing or training for peak fitness. Google interval training, recent research has shown that high intensity training is especially beneficial for older adults.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> I am not a car, and you absolutely do have to be hitting max heart rate at times if you are racing or training for peak fitness. Google interval training, recent research has shown that high intensity training is especially beneficial for older adults.


Yeah, I won't be taking any training advice from Fuse6F.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rob214 (Apr 18, 2019)

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitne...eYHYPbOBdDECd7LU9xw7ecOaloK14A1rrKmG2JmB-hcSU

please read

rob


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

The problem is the satellites.
I remember in 1964 on black/white TV we had a few hours of Olympics.
Then it turned into 2 weeks of non-stop on TV and people fantasize about winning(at all cost). They have cool names, week-end warriors. Here they started cleaning trails of some jumps, drops because emergencies personal was being called too often(on WE).
Common sense has been replaced by smart phones.
JackRabbit died at 111 only sick the last few months and the week before turning 100 in an interview when asked he said exercise enough to sweat.
Now with smart watches so called **athletes** wanna be take redbulls 4 PRs.
Anyway trying to be over 90% is just increasing the risk of injuries. Really not needed if you are not being paid unless you look 4 likes.

PS. He died before the all the powermeters and other junk.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

rmac said:


> 57. Recent resting heart rate (at docs' office) 43. Recent max (from fitbit) 178. I will wear the fitbit for heart rate info for a couple of weeks after reading a 'fitness' book and then give up when I can't correlate the data.
> 
> Funny heart rate story - I had a few heart attacks last year (not realizing they were heart attacks) all while riding hard and when I finally went to the hospital (where they determined I had had a heart attack) and was plugged into all the machines, my heart rate dropped to 34 and all kinds of alarms went off bringing a crowd of people to my room. I told them I was thinking about my last mountain bike ride and it always takes me to a wonderfully relaxed place. I don't think they believed me.


What were your symptoms?


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## Daydreamer (Aug 27, 2018)

Going back to the comments about the 77 year old whose Dr wants him to limit his max HR to 170. I can see two ways that's possible. 

In the first scenario he could have a minor issue such as a blocked artery that's too small to stent or bypass. I've heard of people like that, who for some reason everything is healthy with the heart plumbing but one small artery so they limit their max HR to avoid problems. 

The second scenario is that his Dr really doesn't understand exercise and doesn't like to see fit people. Believe it or not over the past few years I've been running into that from time to time. Rather concerning and I have no idea exactly what the doctors are thinking, but I've seen some cases of doctors refusing to work with patients to get them back to health because they don't want them back in the gym, walking/running, on the bike, hunting, chopping wood etc. Don't want to go into too many details as I see these people as my patients as well. But at 54 it's rather concerning to me that I may walk into a doctors office with a problem and have them tell me they won't do anything for me or deliberately do something to keep me from being active.

In regards to the claim that athletes are more likely to develop certain dysrhythmias, I can tell you almost 50% of the patients I see have a history of A-Fib. Can't remember that I've ever had a runner or former runner with it and since this claim has come out I tend to try to get a activity history. Most people with A-Fib are overweight and sedentary. Sometimes I will see quite a few younger people with SVT. Few are athletic but some are. 

At the same time I know several people in their 20s and 30s with pacemakers to treat dysrhythmias. All of them that I'm thinking about worked to keep themselves in good shape but were not workout fiends. More like just being normally active and eating right, including some vegetarians.

I guess what I'm saying with this is I'm going to continue to do what I enjoy and not change it based on a writer or a professional bike rider developing a dysrhythmia.


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Excellent statement, Daydreamer.What matters is not how many years we can squeeze outta that tube of "Life" 
What does matter, to me, is how well we walk through it's Fire.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

33red said:


> The problem is the satellites.
> I remember in 1964 on black/white TV we had a few hours of Olympics.
> Then it turned into 2 weeks of non-stop on TV and people fantasize about winning(at all cost). They have cool names, week-end warriors. Here they started cleaning trails of some jumps, drops because emergencies personal was being called too often(on WE).
> Common sense has been replaced by smart phones.
> ...


Are you trying to say that technology makes people exercise too much? And that it's bad for your health? Who is Jackrabbit?



Radium said:


> Excellent statement, Daydreamer.What matters is not how many years we can squeeze outta that tube of "Life"
> What does matter, to me, is how well we walk through it's Fire.


^x2!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Age and max heart rate are important, whether you have a low or high resting heat rate is immaterial

As the heart ages it becomes slower to fill, requiring more time to cycle, as a result a fast heart rate can lead to incomplete filling and atrial fibrillation. The cause is related to reduced conductivity, thickening of the heart wall, etc, etc.

Having good fitness is helpful, but arrhythmias happen to healthy people, esp if your heart rate exceeds what your heart can safely manage.

Have you heard of tachycardia?

Maybe a sustained heart rate of 179 isn’t too terribly high relative to the recommendation for your age (162 max for 58yo male), BUT if your heart can’t sustain that heart rate, you’re gonna have some fibrillation and that could be dangerous.

I’d see a cardiologist.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> I am not a car, and you absolutely do have to be hitting max heart rate at times if you are racing or training for peak fitness. Google interval training, recent research has shown that high intensity training is especially beneficial for older adults.


I had a feeling some may not see where i was coming from on this. When i got into the sport i was very out of shape. But i quickly learned that i love it!

Yep. im absolutely sure i hit max heart rate by over doing it in the beginning stages. Lucky i didnt drop dead from a heart attack.

This summer i introduced a fellow dad to the sport and we stopped to check heart rate. We are both 50. He was running just over 180 and i was around 135.

this is dangerous for my fellow dad, who is 35lbs over weight, full of life stress, heavy drinker and smoker! I absolutely had him back it off.

To the people reading this... if your overweight and in poor physical shape, sure get biking and be active. But first get a cardio stress test done or whatever... work with your doctor so you dont make a widow out of your wife. Be smart and a little pro active.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> I am not a car, and you absolutely do have to be hitting max heart rate at times if you are racing or training for peak fitness. Google interval training, recent research has shown that high intensity training is especially beneficial for older adults.


Earlier comments implied that max heart rate is required during training. I took it to also say that this occurs in hiit type training.

I agree with you as does the MAyo clinic. there are good things about HIIT. However, I didnt see heart red line training anywhere in the article though.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/why-interval-training-may-be-the-best-workout-at-any-age/art-20342125

A little more looking i saw this.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/fitness/in-depth/exercise-intensity/art-20046887

These mayo guys have a pretty good reputation.

Heart health is definitely a pretty big subject. Lots to know and learn.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

J.B. Weld said:


> Are you trying to say that technology makes people exercise too much? And that it's bad for your health? Who is Jackrabbit?
> 
> - I do not think technology makes people
> - according to tech/google
> ...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Fuse6F said:


> I had a feeling some may not see where i was coming from on this. When i got into the sport i was very out of shape. But i quickly learned that i love it!
> 
> Yep. im absolutely sure i hit max heart rate by over doing it in the beginning stages. Lucky i didnt drop dead from a heart attack.
> 
> ...


I guess I still don't. If you mean that heavy, out of shape people who smoke should avoid stressing themselves too much when they first get into exercising then I agree. Healthy, active people with good hearts need not worry though.



33red said:


> - I do not think technology makes people
> - according to tech/google
> JackRabbit is
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Smith-Johannsen[/QUOTE


That doesn't clear things up much either. Sounds like Jackrabbit was a lifelong fitness enthusiast and was quite athletic. Still, it's anecdotal that he happened to live to 111.


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## eri (Sep 4, 2012)

Fuse6F said:


> Earlier comments implied that max heart rate is required during training. I took it to also say that this occurs in hiit type training.
> 
> I agree with you as does the MAyo clinic. there are good things about HIIT. However, I didnt see heart red line training anywhere in the article though.
> 
> ...


Given the variance in heart rates I think that mayo zone setting stuff is terrible and wrong and bad. My max is 20 beats higher than predicted so my zones get setup wrong. When i started training more seriously i tried their recommendations and the exertion level was a joke: Breathing through nose. The issue isnt me being bored, its that theres some other guy with a max hr 20 beats lower than the average that is being advised to go too hard.

So much of what mayo writes seems good but i think they need to drop the zone setting based on age and instead base it on the individuals fitness and situation. The breath guides work great but also combine that with common sense - listen to your body!


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## rmac (Oct 26, 2004)

WHALENARD said:


> What were your symptoms?


https://forums.mtbr.com/colorado-front-range/heart-attacks-cautionary-tale-1085891.html


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## A/C in Az (Jan 14, 2019)




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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

A/C in Az said:


>


Thanks a lot. Quite interesting.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

That sounds about right, common sense says that too much of anything usually isn't good. Dr. O'Keefe admitted that the science was far from settled though and his recommendation of 7 hours max vigorous exercise a week was just an educated guestimate. But if his guestimate is true most of us don't have to worry because 7 hours a week is a fair amount. You can race competitively training that much.

Interesting vid and thanks for posting.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

Ive been doing 5-6 hours a week, in intervals. My resting can get to 75, but I average 85 during daytime sitting. At 56 I wish it was lower but I shouldn't complain. Im only 2-3 months betting back into the hobby.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Outhouse said:


> Ive been doing 5-6 hours a week, in intervals. My resting can get to 75, but I average 85 during daytime sitting. At 56 I wish it was lower but I shouldn't complain. Im only 2-3 months betting back into the hobby.


It does not mean much.
You can test it in the morning after 8 hrs not eating, not drinking, you might get 63.
The next day 20 min after a meal and get 75
The next day after a bad meal and get 90.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I'm 67.
My resting is normally 58.
My max, as measured by a stress echo cardiogram is 197 (5 years ago) but I have hit over 200 recently after warm up. During the SEC, my bood pressure was reasonably low - in the 120/70 range while at high heart rate.
When I was i my mid 30's, flying the F-14, I was hooked up to an ECG in a simulator while in a centrifuge at about 5g's in a "flat spin simulation" and hit 235. The flight surgeon supervising was alarmed until I told him I felt fine. Everyone is different. Maybe I have a chipmunk heart, who knows?


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## serious (Jan 25, 2005)

I am 57 (150 lbs) and still race. Last summer I did only endurance events (8 hour solo on a single speed and hit the podium every time). I trained 12-14 hours per week to reach top shape. 

My resting heart rate during the summer was 41-42 and max hear rate hit around 170-172. 

Right now it is my off season and I only train 5-6 hours per week, all unstructured training, lots of fat bike riding. My resting heart rate is around 45-46 now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dreednya (Mar 9, 2004)

55 and hit 200 bpm during an event 6 months ago. Threshold at 174 and a resting HR of 50-60 and sleeping in the low 40s. So 220m - age is complete *ollocks


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## ShakyDog (Oct 24, 2019)

I am 53 and I struggle to get past 150, as in I have not gone past 150 in normal MTBing since restarting the riding in May. I run out of air capacity long before getting anywhere near 150+. Evey stress test I have had, they tried to get me to a target range, that I never hit, I hit a plateau.

Steve


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

dreednya said:


> 55 and hit 200 bpm during an event 6 months ago. Threshold at 174 and a resting HR of 50-60 and sleeping in the low 40s. So 220m - age is complete *ollocks


You're misunderstanding the science.

The upper limit decreases as you age, NOT because your heart will no longer beat that fast, BUT because it's not safe to beat that fast.

Think arrythmias, hence the use of an AED to examine heart rhythm before shocking.

220 bpm at 55yo is not safe, good luck with that.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> You're misunderstanding the science.
> 
> The upper limit decreases as you age, NOT because your heart will no longer beat that fast, BUT because it's not safe to beat that fast.
> 
> ...


You might want to re-read his post. He never suggested that his heart beats at 220bpm.

He said that the "220 - your age" method is not great for predicting max HR.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> You're misunderstanding the science.
> 
> The upper limit decreases as you age, NOT because your heart will no longer beat that fast, BUT because it's not safe to beat that fast.


Are you saying that max heart rate isn't a physical limit? I thought it was as far as stress tests and training plans go.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

J.B. Weld said:


> Are you saying that max heart rate isn't a physical limit? I thought it was as far as stress tests and training plans go.


Think of the heart like a pump, but it's alive, it can change over time, so you got the motor, the electronic timing system, and the bladder. The motor (heart muscle) becomes less pliable over time, the connective tissues comprising the bladder (heart vessel) become more rigid over time, and electrical system develops resistance over time.

The faster a motor runs, the more likely it is to have a fault, think of it as a misfire, but in a heart a misfire can lead to fibrillation. When the heart fibrillates it fails to pump effectively, there can be regurgitation, or it can just flat out not pump, which has predictable results: Heart attack.

The heart is a great machine, but it has some weaknesses, for example, the cardiac arteries draw blood directly from the heart, essentially they get first dibs, BUT if the heart stops pumping effectively or the blood is not properly oxygenated, now the heart is literally harming itself and without correction the heart muscle will also not be adequately oxygenated. The heart, unlimited, could literally pump itself to death.

So maintaining good heart health is very different than the change in "tolerance" for a certain heart rate that we develop as we age. A healthy heart doesn't need to exceed it's maximum heart rate because it has built up a capacity and efficiency adequate for it's user's demands.

A healthy heart provides more and better oxygenated blood at the same heart rate than does an unhealthy heart.

The unhealthy heart has to work harder to provide the same level of oxygenation which can lead to an elevated heart rate, which can lead to fibrillation.

That said, any heart can exceed it's maximum heart rate and have fibrillation, even the heart of an athlete.

So it's kind of a chicken or egg in a sense that most hearts do have a natural resistance to exceeding the natural maximum heart rate, think of it as a built in limiter, but there are some hearts that don't have the natural limiter, which is why instead of passing out, feeling feint, or suffering some sort of "bonk" from insufficient oxygenation, some folks get elevated heart rates, fibrillation, MI.

So yeah, too fast is too fast, don't kid yourself, it's not a competition unless you're in a "death race".

... and no, I'm not a cardiologist, but I do have an extensive medical education. So when I read comments about a 55 yo athlete saying that maximum heart rate based on age in bogus because they can run a 220 bpm heart rate, well, I gotta say something cuz otherwise people might start to believe that's true and it could lead to some bad outcomes.

Yeah, your heart may be able to beat at a higher rate for your age than the average person, but is that a good thing? Is your heart any less likely to develop and arrhythmia than the average person? Do you really want to risk that?

Healthy people have heart attacks as do stoopid people who don't understand their limitations.

I'm 54 yo, my maximum "average" heart rate is 166 bpm; note that this is average maximum, so my heart rate can theoretically sustain that rate over a period of time. So if I measure my heart rate and it was 220 bpm I'd be thinking that something ain't right, and I'd see a cardiologist pretty damn fast.

Your mileage may vary, it's your life, do what you want, I'm just a messenger.


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## tubbnation (Jul 6, 2015)

Over the past year, I've hit 200+ three times. Each time, it was never sustained longer than 1min. I've also been over 190 multiple times during this time period - again all under 1min in duration.

Some context, I was riding my Cutthroat an average of about 90-100mi/weekly. Rides were typically 20-30/avg with an avg speed anywhere from 15.5 to 17.9. Avg elevation per ride was around 1,100 to 1,500ft. All rides were solo. Usually mixed terrain; road and gravel, very little singletrack.

*Considering my age, background, medications, etc., it's not something I encourage, however, we're all different, and some of us are able to hit higher than targeted or suggested numbers without damaging, or killing, ourselves.

_* 53, widowmaker at 38. Doctors said my heart sustained very little damage, especially considering the severity of the event. They were quite surprised I was actually able to walk into the emergency room as I did.

I used to see a cardiologist annually (now semi-annually)._


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> A healthy heart doesn't need to exceed it's maximum heart rate because it has built up a capacity and efficiency adequate for it's user's demands.


I guess that part confuses me, I didn't think a healthy heart could exceed it's maximum heart rate 

I wasn't advocating running at max heart rate for long periods of time but for many athletes the point of establishing that number is to accurately determine training zones @ a certain percentage of maximum, so in my view max hr is the highest you can rev, and my understanding is that number diminishes over the years at a fairly predictable rate.


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## Mongoguy (Oct 16, 2019)

Recently hit 205 bpm on a Cat 1 single speed group ride... from what my coach is telling me "as we reach new fitness peaks we can hit higher HR levels due to increased levels of fitness" 
Basically, I have increased my power and stamina to adapt to a higher workload. I can spend more time at max effort and that will force higher BPM count.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Max hr can also depend on what heart rate monitor you're using. My max is about 160 with my wahoo ticker and around 200 with my Garmin. The wahoo is at least consistent so a good reference but I've kind of lost faith in their accuracy.


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## Bikeworks (Sep 10, 2020)

J.B. Weld said:


> Max hr can also depend on what heart rate monitor you're using. My max is about 160 with my wahoo ticker and around 200 with my Garmin. The wahoo is at least consistent so a good reference but I've kind of lost faith in their accuracy.


My max on my Wahoo is 181. I've been using them for years (in different iterations) and would say that number also 'feels' right. Can't imagine what the Garmin would read, lol.


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## Mongoguy (Oct 16, 2019)

Resting is 58 for me, but I do get lower with less training intensity and more recovery. I was wearing a Polar HR10- and feel its usually fairly spot on with numbers.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I've had 2 stress echo cardiograms over the past 10 years. On both of them, my max heart rates (which were over 190 then, and about 190 now at 68) were right at what I was using at the time, which were chest straps. I use a Wahoo arm band now, when I monitor heart rate, but it seems to be reading in line with what I've seen before. I haven't used a Garmin brand monitor. I definitely prefer the arm band that uses light as the sensor.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

I'm 59 and have never actively monitored my HR while riding. I think I have a pretty good feel for what is a good training zone for me.... but honestly have no data to back this up. My max heart rate used to be around 180 10 years ago but I'm sure it's lower now. Haven't checked it for several years. Resting HR is 50-58. Ride 5-6 days a week, rarely pushing myself to maximum effort anymore (have a harder time convincing myself to enter the pain cave anymore), but certainly hit 70-90% max effort often.

Should I be monitoring and checking my heart rate more actively given my age? I guess I always thought that was for max fitness for racers. I'm not a serious racer. One or two enduro races a year is all.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

KRob said:


> Should I be monitoring and checking my heart rate more actively given my age? I guess I always thought that was for max fitness for racers. I'm not a serious racer. One or two enduro races a year is all.


Unless you have a problem (e.g. atrial fibrillation) monitoring hr is mainly for training purposes or general curiosity.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

im 58 after blood clots in my lungs that almost killed me in June of 20, then 5 broken bone in july and surgery to fix clavicle in Sep. My BPM have risen to 95 most of the day whether I lay down or stand. I lost 5-10% of right lung. I have been training hard on bike trying to recondition myself and im sitting at 370 miles for the year, and just now getting where I can climb 2000' in a 2.2 hour ride. Blood pressure is normal. Laying on couch im at 85bpm at 11pm, and in an hour and early morning I may see 70's and only high 60;s once. I hate seeing that 10bpm gain in day time.


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