# Returning to the dark side...



## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

After getting an Orbea Rise LTD, enjoying it for a while, then watching it gather dust, I realized that the "mid-power" eMTB wasn't for me in the long run. I ride 95%+ of my miles on the regular bike(s), and when I went to go ride with others on eMTBs I was at a disadvantage on range and power, and when I rode by myself I didn't have the same fun hooning around trails as I did on my previous full fat eMTB. If I only had a single bike, and that bike was an eMTB, I'd have kept the Rise. But my Hightower is my "everyday" bike.

So I just sold the Rise and picked up a 2022 S-Works Levo. Looking forward to getting the first ride in. I thought about just buying a frame and swapping parts over, but decided that with the mullet setup I might as well just use the OEM spec. Though (yeah, I know its heresy these days) I'll be removing and selling the AXS dropper. It's not my thing.

I'll report back after I have a ride or two.


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## Cell4soul (6 mo ago)

My buddy just did the same thing. He sold his Rise and bought the new Levo for the exact reasons you mention. I ride alone and really prefer the lightweight eMTB’s.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

Cell4soul said:


> My buddy just did the same thing. He sold his Rise and bought the new Levo for the exact reasons you mention. I ride alone and really prefer the lightweight eMTB’s.


I went the other way and sold my YT Decoy (full power) after buying the Rise m20. 

YT was a blast on the roughest trails, like a downhill bike with a motor. But for general trail riding, I prefer the Rise which feels far more like a conventional MTB.

In boost mode, I don't have problems riding the Rise with friends on full power e-bikes. And in eco, I can ride with the pedalheads should I choose to.

I also have the Orbea battery extender but seldom use it.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

RickBullottaPA said:


> After getting an Orbea Rise LTD, enjoying it for a while, then watching it gather dust, I realized that the "mid-power" eMTB wasn't for me in the long run. I ride 95%+ of my miles on the regular bike(s), and when I went to go ride with others on eMTBs I was at a disadvantage on range and power, and when I rode by myself I didn't have the same fun hooning around trails as I did on my previous full fat eMTB. If I only had a single bike, and that bike was an eMTB, I'd have kept the Rise. But my Hightower is my "everyday" bike.
> 
> So I just sold the Rise and picked up a 2022 S-Works Levo. Looking forward to getting the first ride in. I thought about just buying a frame and swapping parts over, but decided that with the mullet setup I might as well just use the OEM spec. Though (yeah, I know its heresy these days) I'll be removing and selling the AXS dropper. It's not my thing.
> 
> I'll report back after I have a ride or two.


Off topic, but if you don’t mind straying momentarily, what didn’t you like about the AXS dropper? I have 3, perfectly functioning Factory Transfers, all with the same seat tube width. I’m think of selling them and replacing them with a single AXS Reverb (and 3 levers). Mistake in your view? I’m running an XX1 AXS drivetrain on my main bike and love it.

Please PM me if you would prefer to not contaminate this thread. Thanks!


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

RickBullottaPA said:


> After getting an Orbea Rise LTD, enjoying it for a while, then watching it gather dust, I realized that the "mid-power" eMTB wasn't for me in the long run. I ride 95%+ of my miles on the regular bike(s), and when I went to go ride with others on eMTBs I was at a disadvantage on range and power, and when I rode by myself I didn't have the same fun hooning around trails as I did on my previous full fat eMTB. If I only had a single bike, and that bike was an eMTB, I'd have kept the Rise. But my Hightower is my "everyday" bike.
> 
> So I just sold the Rise and picked up a 2022 S-Works Levo. Looking forward to getting the first ride in. I thought about just buying a frame and swapping parts over, but decided that with the mullet setup I might as well just use the OEM spec. Though (yeah, I know its heresy these days) I'll be removing and selling the AXS dropper. It's not my thing.
> 
> I'll report back after I have a ride or two.


I bet that S-Works Levo doesn't weigh much more than the Rise LTD - right?


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## Ripbird (Jun 25, 2020)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Off topic, but if you don’t mind straying momentarily, what didn’t you like about the AXS dropper? I have 3, perfectly functioning Factory Transfers, all with the same seat tube width. I’m think of selling them and replacing them with a single AXS Reverb (and 3 levers). Mistake in your view? I’m running an XX1 AXS drivetrain on my main bike and love it.
> 
> Please PM me if you would prefer to not contaminate this thread. Thanks!


He had a rigid seat post on his Rise if that tells you his thoughts on the any dropper post. Get yourself an AXS dropper if you want the clean look and ease of install.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

The AXS dropper is pretty sweet. I don't think it's $860 dollars sweet, but sweet nonetheless. 

Perceivable instantaneous response.


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## SkiTalk'er (Jun 26, 2021)

This hits home. While I think I want a lighter/low power bike like the Rise or EX-e (which I was just fondling) wil I miss my 85w Habit Neo? I am not sure I a willing to spend the couple of thou to find out. I think I am staying put.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Off topic, but if you don’t mind straying momentarily, what didn’t you like about the AXS dropper? I have 3, perfectly functioning Factory Transfers, all with the same seat tube width. I’m think of selling them and replacing them with a single AXS Reverb (and 3 levers). Mistake in your view? I’m running an XX1 AXS drivetrain on my main bike and love it.
> 
> Please PM me if you would prefer to not contaminate this thread. Thanks!


I don't use droppers at all - no knock on the AXS. If I used one, I'd keep the AXS for sure. My dropper post is an allen wrench, for the rare cases that a steep rock slab warrants it. I'm just soooooo used to "feeling" where the bike is with the saddle that I can never change. I've tried. It's not for me.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Jack7782 said:


> I bet that S-Works Levo doesn't weigh much more than the Rise LTD - right?


And my Rise w/o a dropper was crazy light. 37 lbs 6 oz with XTR 9120 pedals.

The Levo after my component swaps (remove dropper for a Next SL, add pedals) measure up a hair over 47.

It's also about 185 pounds lighter than the KTM 300 I just sold. I need something to hoon around on and the Levo seems to be a solid option.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

RickBullottaPA said:


> I don't use droppers at all - no knock on the AXS. If I used one, I'd keep the AXS for sure. My dropper post is an allen wrench, for the rare cases that a steep rock slab warrants it. I'm just soooooo used to "feeling" where the bike is with the saddle that I can never change. I've tried. It's not for me.


Oh. Wow. Ok. Thank you for the clarification.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Ripbird said:


> He had a rigid seat post on his Rise if that tells you his thoughts on the any dropper post. Get yourself an AXS dropper if you want the clean look and ease of install.


The AXS dropper was indeed quite sweet - if I were to ever use one (unlikely), that'd be the one for sure.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> I went the other way and sold my YT Decoy (full power) after buying the Rise m20.
> 
> YT was a blast on the roughest trails, like a downhill bike with a motor. But for general trail riding, I prefer the Rise which feels far more like a conventional MTB.
> 
> ...


The other eMTBers I'll occasionally ride with are all on Levos, so it was a natural choice. Plus, I just sold my KTM 300 so I wanted something legal to ride on trails that still brought a big grin. I also plan to do some GNCC eMTB races next year, and basically the Levos rule the roost and you need bike parity if you want to be competitive. I can probably outride most of the other racers, but when I raced the Levos on my Shuttle I was definitely "out biked" in the open fields, and they were able to keep the boost up for a full race while I had to ration. It's almost like F1 or Formula E strategy! Ha.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

RickBullottaPA said:


> The other eMTBers I'll occasionally ride with are all on Levos, so it was a natural choice. Plus, I just sold my KTM 300 so I wanted something legal to ride on trails that still brought a big grin. I also plan to do some GNCC eMTB races next year, and basically the Levos rule the roost and you need bike parity if you want to be competitive. I can probably outride most of the other racers, but when I raced the Levos on my Shuttle I was definitely "out biked" in the open fields, and they were able to keep the boost up for a full race while I had to ration. It's almost like F1 or Formula E strategy! Ha.


That makes sense. You have a unique use-focus. 
Why Levo over Kenevo for that purpose?


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> That makes sense. You have a unique use-focus.
> Why Levo over Kenevo for that purpose?


Mostly because I also wanted some consistency between my "everyday" bike (SC Hightower) and my eMTB (suspension travel, overall feel) and I'm riding more XC/AM stuff than park stuff or big hit stuff. Just felt like a better fit for me.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

Kenovo is long, low and slack. It's a trail wrecker but a beast to handle at slow speed


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

The Squeaky Wheel said:


> Kenovo is long, low and slack. It's a trail wrecker but a beast to handle at slow speed


That was my read as well. I think of the Kenovo kinda like a SC Nomad. I used to have a Nomad when I had a place near a ski area that had a bike park. Sold the bike when we sold the house.


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## Tickle (Dec 11, 2013)

IMO, just having the dropper to lower the saddle to take a quick breather is worth it, maybe not $800 AXS dropper worth it


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

New Levo’s rock! Congrats.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

RickBullottaPA said:


> I don't use droppers at all - no knock on the AXS. If I used one, I'd keep the AXS for sure. My dropper post is an allen wrench, for the rare cases that a steep rock slab warrants it. I'm just soooooo used to "feeling" where the bike is with the saddle that I can never change. I've tried. It's not for me.


You will. Everything will be better, not just descending, but cornering as well.
You're part of the 0.1 percent

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

rod9301 said:


> You will. Everything will be better, not just descending, but cornering as well.
> You're part of the 0.1 percent
> 
> Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


Nope. I've tried many times, on multiple bikes, a few different models of droppers. Doesn't do anything for me. 30+ years or riding MTBs has ingrained a lot of habits!


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

This is a thread about ebikes, not about droppers.
Regardless, I'll 'drop' a brief dropper story here.

I went to Moab for the first time in 2010.
I know, I know, late to the party. Whatever.
Anyway everybody told me I'd need a dropper post for Moab so I should buy one in advance of going.
Which I did.

Never used the thing.
Wasn't used to using a dropper, forgot to employ it 99% of the time.
Whenever I did use the dropper, the bike felt weird.
No saddle to use to steer with my thighs, which is what I did back in those days.

Droppers: what a waste of money.
I sold the dropper as soon as I returned home from Moab.

Couple weeks later told my riding buddy Ken that I got rid of the dropper.
He just hung his head and shook it.
Then he looked up, looked me in the eyes and said, very seriously, "You don't just buy a dropper. You have to learn a new way to ride."
I asked him what he meant and he explained. I listened but wasn't sure I understood completely. But I was reluctantly willing.

So I bought another dropper and gave it another try. Indeed, I had to learn a new way to ride.

Today, if you take my dropper, you might as well take my whole bike. I'm not riding without a dropper. (I even put one on my road bike.)
I've been riding mountain bikes since '85 and have owned literally dozens of awesome bikes.
The dropper opened a whole new universe of fun for me. That universe is not at ground level. It's above the ground.

Not saying the dropper is for everyone.
Not everyone likes disc brakes, suspension, grippy tires, 1x drivetrains, etc., either.
Rim brakes, rigid frames & forks, semi-slick tires and front derailleurs still work too, eh.

Ride whatever you like, but without making the leap, a rider will never experience the new universe of fun made possible by the dropper.
That's okay but at the same time, it makes those of us who see in color sad.

Okay that wasn't a brief story. Sorry.
=sParty


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Off topic, single AXS Reverb (and 3 levers).


will one axs dropper pair with several different axs levers?
that might solve an expensive problem for me


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

This was my take on the mid/low power eBikes. As long as I'm still using my Evil Offering for 90% of my riding, I still feel like the the full-power eBike is best for how I ride it: Occasional truck retrievals after a shuttle drop, marking course, and for big hairy long steep back country exploratory rides (30-40 miles and 5-7K ft of climbing).

I also recently sold my KTM 300 xcw and find the full power e-mtb helps satisfy my desire for these bigger exploratory rides which often follow moto trails and are too steep for normal unassisted mtbs.

OTOH, If I ever get too old or weak to pedal like I do on my normal bike but still want the feel of a normal mtb, these mid-weight eBikes are starting to look pretty good.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

KRob said:


> OTOH, If I ever get too old or weak to pedal like I do on my normal bike but still want the feel of a normal mtb, these mid-weight eBikes are starting to look pretty good.





KRob said:


> I also recently sold my KTM 300 xcw and find the full power e-mtb helps satisfy my desire for these bigger exploratory rides which often follow moto trails and are too steep for normal unassisted mtbs.


Being 'old and weak' like you say, I decided to really return to the dark side - today I made a deposit on a Honda XRE 300!


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