# "Semi Bath Lube" = Motor Oil???



## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

I'm assembling a new '04 Mantiou Black. The service instructions call for "*5/40 wt Synthetic Oil*" for the semi-bath lubrication system.

Note this is not the damping oil, this is strictly for stanchion lubrication.

My best guess is this is simply 5-40 synthetic motor oil? What do y'all think?


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## Lucky (Jan 12, 2004)

Well, I just printed the Skareb manual earlier today, and it says for the semi-bath, "40wt or greater automotive oil...", so I think you're right.

Kathy


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## SDizzle (Jan 12, 2004)

f*nætik said:


> My best guess is this is simply 5-40 synthetic motor oil? What do y'all think?


That'd be my guess, too. BUT...I use 5 wt Golden Spectro in my Minute One - I don't know what various motor oils will do to my seals, and I trust the slipperiness of the Golden Spectro from using it in Zoke's oil baths. I soak my seal-sponges in stanchion lube, too, and it works pretty well. I'd stick with whatever you use in the damper, as I haven't experienced any problems with it yet...


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

I found the reference to the 40wt automotive oil, but that's the tablespoon that gets poured in over the air piston to keep it lubed. I've got that same requirement on my X-Vert air and use a 40 or 50wt gearbox oil.

I looked at Marzocchi's and Spectro's web sites and while it looks like Marz calls for damping oil for the semi bath, I couldn't find any 5-40 fork oils to meet Manitou's requirement.

I don't know how worried I need to be about seals since this is all external to the TCP cartridge, but I'll call Manitou Monday and get the skinny.


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## Schtoojp (Mar 20, 2004)

Well, 5/40 means the oil acts like a 5wt oil when it's cold to move around an engine quickly at start up, and like a 40wt when it's hot so it doesn't run like water off everything like hot 5wt would. 

As the fork isn't likely to get to 100°C or above, I would think you could use a straight 5wt synthetic lubricating oil to do the job. They probably specify 5/40wt synthetic engine oil as it's easy to get and not too expensive. Maybe the synthetic won't damage seals like a mineral oil might too, who knows?

Engine oil in a fork?


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## SDizzle (Jan 12, 2004)

f*nætik said:


> I looked at Marzocchi's and Spectro's web sites and while it looks like Marz calls for damping oil for the semi bath, I couldn't find any 5-40 fork oils to meet Manitou's requirement.


Zoke's dampers and open-baths are one and the same, so you don't have a choice - everything operates in the same chamber. With Manitou's semi-bath (just now being employed on new Blacks and Minutes, and maybe Skarebs?), the damper operates in its own chamber in damping oil, and the semi bath is used just to lube the seals/wipers and bushings, and, in the case of the Minute One, the spring-side chamber. In the Minute One, the left leg is open to the slider, so as the spring stays lubed with oil too. I don't think that's the case in the Two and Three, and there may be a seperate bath, like you mentioned, in the air chamber.

Whatever the case, I agree with the below - "Motor oil in a fork?" Synthetic or not, it sounds gross and smelly! The only reason I opted for Golden Spectro is because a) I didn't have and of M's specified Motorex oil and b) I trust its seal-lubing properties from using it in Zoke's open-bath. I tried 10 wt RS too, and didn't think it was anything special. I might just forsake the semi-bath entirely and slather everything in Slick Honey and Red Rum - as long as everything stays lubed, your fork isn't going to suffer.


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## fonseca (Jan 12, 2004)

f*nætik said:


> I'm assembling a new '04 Mantiou Black. The service instructions call for "*5/40 wt Synthetic Oil*" for the semi-bath lubrication system.
> 
> Note this is not the damping oil, this is strictly for stanchion lubrication.
> 
> My best guess is this is simply 5-40 synthetic motor oil? What do y'all think?


Use synthetic motor oil. 5-30 is fine, I doubt you will find 5-40 anywhere. My Firefly uses 16cc per leg.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*You are correct.*



fonseca said:


> Use synthetic motor oil. 5-30 is fine, I doubt you will find 5-40 anywhere. My Firefly uses 16cc per leg.


I've got 5-30wt Mobil 1 in my Firefly, and it works great. Motor oil, messy and smelly?...Hmmm, I thinks it's pretty clean stuff until it's run in an internal combustion engine for a bit. That's where you get the real crud.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

*Qucik Follow-up*



f*nætik said:


> I'm assembling a new '04 Mantiou Black. The service instructions call for "*5/40 wt Synthetic Oil*" for the semi-bath lubrication system.
> 
> Note this is not the damping oil, this is strictly for stanchion lubrication.
> 
> My best guess is this is simply 5-40 synthetic motor oil? What do y'all think?


Manitiou warranty/tech confirmed that it is simply 5-40 synthetic motor oil, non detergent.

I picked up a liter of Bombardier ATV 5-40 oil which looks and feels identical to the straw-colored semi-bath lube I emptied out of the fork.


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## gstahl (Dec 20, 2003)

*Reviving an old discussion*



Speedüb Nate said:


> Manitiou warranty/tech confirmed that it is simply 5-40 synthetic motor oil, non detergent.
> 
> I picked up a liter of Bombardier ATV 5-40 oil which looks and feels identical to the straw-colored semi-bath lube I emptied out of the fork.


Now that the weight of semi-bath oil has been confirmed, what is the weight of the damping oil? I can't find it in the service manual.

Thanks,
Geoff


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## Trajan (Feb 9, 2004)

gstahl said:


> Now that the weight of semi-bath oil has been confirmed, what is the weight of the damping oil? I can't find it in the service manual.
> 
> Thanks,
> Geoff


I think it is 5 weight, and I am unsure if this should be changed.


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## Fast Freddy (Dec 25, 2003)

You know I was wondering about that too... this is my first Manitou fork (always had RS, Marz, or Rigid) and I was shocked when I talked with the Manitou tech line and they said motor oil.... He did clarify it was just for lubrication and not damping.... so I bought some Motorex Semi-bath Oil 5w-40 Oil. All this just to change out my SPV spring on my 04 Black Super Air 80... oh well... other than that is there any other tech tips I should know before I start? I'm pretty bike capable - I switched the u-turn spring and changed the weight oil in my Psylo SL last year with no issues....

Thanks
FF


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## gstahl (Dec 20, 2003)

*Service Manual*



Fast Freddy said:


> You know I was wondering about that too... this is my first Manitou fork (always had RS, Marz, or Rigid) and I was shocked when I talked with the Manitou tech line and they said motor oil.... He did clarify it was just for lubrication and not damping.... so I bought some Motorex Semi-bath Oil 5w-40 Oil. All this just to change out my SPV spring on my 04 Black Super Air 80... oh well... other than that is there any other tech tips I should know before I start? I'm pretty bike capable - I switched the u-turn spring and changed the weight oil in my Psylo SL last year with no issues....


I grabbed the service manual from Answers site. It is not well organized but it does have clear procedures, tools, amounts and torques (when it is not contradicting itself =) )

I would get this and read it once through to figure out how the disparate instructions link together (assuming it is in the same state for the 04 Black as it is for the Minute).
Geoff


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## Hecubus (Jan 12, 2004)

gstahl said:


> Now that the weight of semi-bath oil has been confirmed, what is the weight of the damping oil? I can't find it in the service manual.
> 
> Thanks,
> Geoff


The damping oil should always be 5W. Manitou is using the Motorex Semi-bath lube in their forks for lubrication. However, the first 04 Black super I got came with the same 5W bluish oil used in the damper sort of like Rock Shox who use standard fork oil in their semi-bath. Besides that it had some Prep M spewed over the inside much like the older forks. You can also just run Prep M alone like the older models if you service the fork fairly frequently. Interesting to find out they recommend standard motor oil as well. Should make it easier to buy since the Motorex stuff is a bit hard to find. aebike.com is the only place I've seen selling it. Semi batch lubing seems to be pretty flexible. I don't think you really need a specific kind of lube as long as there is lube.


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## Lemonhead (Jan 31, 2004)

Fast Freddy said:


> All this just to change out my SPV spring on my 04 Black Super Air 80...


I still haven't gotten around to switching out the spring on my Skareb Super. However, I must say that it rides pretty well on the stock spring.

I've never worked on my own forks before. When I skimmed through the service manuel, I got a litte unsure with step #6, seeing as how the "figure 2" pic didn't show up. If I held the fork horizontal to inject the semi bath oil, wouldn't the oil leak out from both the bottom holes and at the top where the wipers are?  I'm determined to do this myself, so any help would be appreciated.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Lemonhead said:


> If I held the fork horizontal to inject the semi bath oil, wouldn't the oil leak out from both the bottom holes and at the top where the wipers are?


Not to worry, 16cc is very little. Holding the fork horizontal causes the oil to puddle up underneath the uppers, but not overflow through the openings you're injecting it through. You'll plug the holes at the bottom of the lowers in the next step, and everything will be sealed up nice and tidy.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Hecubus said:


> The damping oil should always be 5W. Manitou is using the Motorex Semi-bath lube in their forks for lubrication. However, the first 04 Black super I got came with the same 5W bluish oil used in the damper sort of like Rock Shox who use standard fork oil in their semi-bath. Besides that it had some Prep M spewed over the inside much like the older forks. You can also just run Prep M alone like the older models if you service the fork fairly frequently. Interesting to find out they recommend standard motor oil as well. Should make it easier to buy since the Motorex stuff is a bit hard to find. aebike.com is the only place I've seen selling it. Semi batch lubing seems to be pretty flexible. I don't think you really need a specific kind of lube as long as there is lube.


As a heavier rider, I've used 7wt to smooth things out a bit. I'd recommend anyone who is curious to experiment a little with a slightly heavier weight.

I've been buying all my shock oil from a motorcycle shop. The same Maxima fork oil I pay for by the pint in a bike shop is cheaper by the quart in a motorcycle shop. That's also where I found the overpriced liter of Bombardier Synthetic 10W-40 that I'm using as semi-bath lube in the '04 Black Platinum.


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

*This thread is scaring me.*



Speedüb Nate said:


> I'm assembling a new '04 Mantiou Black. The service instructions call for "*5/40 wt Synthetic Oil*" for the semi-bath lubrication system.
> 
> Note this is not the damping oil, this is strictly for stanchion lubrication.
> 
> My best guess is this is simply 5-40 synthetic motor oil? What do y'all think?


I just ordered a Manitoo (misspell intentional to prevent linkage whoring) Black. It's my 1st-ever fork upgrade. Does all this tech talk mean I have to spend hours and hours swimming around in goop before I can install the fork and go riding?


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## Hecubus (Jan 12, 2004)

Theres no need to take the fork apart before you ride it. This is just for those of us who service their own forks or freaks like me who take a new fork apart to inspect everything and make sure all oil levels are perfect  Unless you need to change the spring you won't have to do any of this. As complicated as it sounds its actually extremely easy to service these forks. Messy but very easy.


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

Hecubus said:


> Theres no need to take the fork apart before you ride it. This is just for those of us who service their own forks or freaks like me who take a new fork apart to inspect everything and make sure all oil levels are perfect  Unless you need to change the spring you won't have to do any of this. As complicated as it sounds its actually extremely easy to service these forks. Messy but very easy.


Thanks - I'm one of those guys who needs instruction on which end of the wrench to hold!


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Hecubus said:


> Unless you need to change the spring you won't have to do any of this. As complicated as it sounds its actually extremely easy to service these forks. Messy but very easy.


Good to point this out. Even the spring swaps are very easy, except for the life of me I can't figure why Manîtou chose to use a 28mm hex on the crown. Not even my local speciality tool store had a 28mm socket in stock. I finally got one from Sears, but had to mail order it. Both 27mm and 29mm are widely available sizes -- they should have gone with that.

But hell, that's why I have a crescent wrench in my tool drawer.


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## Homebrew (Jan 2, 2004)

Speedüb Nate said:


> Both 27mm and 29mm are widely available sizes -- they should have gone with that.


Forget that, they should have gone with 1" since you can get that anywhere.


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## Schtoojp (Mar 20, 2004)

Anywhere?

Uhh, come to think of it, yes anywhere.

I can get imperial sizes off the shelf at the local hardware store here in Japan. Interesting, considering the whole country is metric and has been for a long time. If your local tool supplier won't carry metric tools, tell them to get out of the stone age and come into line with the rest of the planet, or find somewhere better to get tools from. Might sound harsh, but the jury is in, and the days imperial/inch sizings are numbered. And yes I can use either system without problems in case I appear to be a metric zealot.  

Makes getting tools for bikes easy (but it's also easy in Australia) but for other things it's a PITA. Right now I have a nice set of router bits I can't use because they are 1/4" shank but the router I have has a 6mm collet. No option of getting a 1/4" collet locally, I'd have to bring one on from somewhere else.Only have the 1/4"stuff because it was heaps cheaper to grab it when I was in Oz a few months back. Router bits cost a small fortune here, and you the selection is small.

However, most other tools are reasonably cheap and good quality. Fringe benefit of a place that still makes most of it's own stuff...


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## Lemonhead (Jan 31, 2004)

Speedüb Nate said:


> Not to worry, 16cc is very little. Holding the fork horizontal causes the oil to puddle up underneath the uppers, but not overflow through the openings you're injecting it through. You'll plug the holes at the bottom of the lowers in the next step, and everything will be sealed up nice and tidy.


Okay, thanks. All I need to do now is pick up a plastic syringe from Kragen. 

I plan to use some of that Motorex semi-bath fork oil just to keep things on the safe side. I mentioned to my friend about using some 5W-50 Castrol Syntec (full synthetic) that I had laying around for my car, but he questioned whether or not it would be safe for the seals, etc. He was worried that motor oil would break down the rubber prematurely. What do you guys think?


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## Hecubus (Jan 12, 2004)

Obviosly it won't according to Manitou. Besides that IS what they.ve used in the main air chamber for years. I have a feeling the Motorex stuff is just very expensive motor oil.


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