# Flow trail on a tandem?



## TandemBear (Aug 18, 2013)

With the official opening of the Soquel Demonstration Forest Flow Trail this Saturday, May 9, from 1-4, I've been wondering how fun such a trail would be on a tandem. 

Anyone here have any experience riding a flow trail tandem? I realize the berms and jumps won't be engineered for the long wheelbase of a tandem. But that said, I'm sure it could still be a really good time.

If anyone has any experience, I'd sure love to hear it. I don't have any flow trail experience yet at all. Pretty lame that I haven't ridden the Tamarancho flow yet (45 min. away) and I haven't been to Soquel in over ten years (1.5 hr. away). Inexcusable.

Anyway, I poked my head in at the Soquel Demo thread with this question and thought I'd post here since I'll get a lot more tandem eyeballs looking at it - and I'm sure several of you will have some stories to share.

Thanks!


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

Yes, we've ridden the flow trail at our local bike park. The berms are really fun. We did not "catch air" on the jumps, just kinda rolled them. Also tried the pump track, but that was kind of a bust.

I say go for it!


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

We plan to hit the Soquel flow trail the next time we're in the area. It sounds like a blast. 

The only comparable thing we've ridden is Whoops in Bend. It's like a Flow Trial Junior, but it has whoops and berms, just built to a smaller standard (especially the berms). It's all downhill, etc. Enough fun we rode up the access fireroad three times in succession. Pump tracks won't be spaced correctly for a tandem's wheelbase, but a flow trail should be good fun!


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## ebnelson (Oct 30, 2006)

The new trail should be all or mostly rideable for a tandem. The other trails in the Demo Forest all have a line to ride around the jumps and I expect that would be the case for a new "official" trail there. The riding there is a bit climby since all trails lead back to the access road with a climb out so be prepared for that. Also, there have been a lot of car break-ins at the upper dirt lot (the one across the small bridge) in years past. I usually parked out on the road or ride up from Soquel State Park in Aptos, but this makes for a long day.


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## DHMASTER (Oct 12, 2010)

I've ridden Live Wire at Northstar and it was a blast. You can't make all the jumps but there are a few that can be cleared. Even if you roll the whole thing, a very worthwhile experience.


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

We have ridden a few local flow trails here in our area on our tandem (the mill trail, VanMichael, Coldwater) and it is a blast - especially the Mill. The trails are setup with small/medium doubles that are ideal for a single bike, not so much for a tandem. In all cases there are side trails that will take you around the double, or you can hit them slow.

I think they're fun...hitting a fast, highly banked turn is a good time...makes my stoker squeal!!


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Mike, would you consider FATS flow?

PK


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

We haven't been to FATS yet Paul....it's on our list for this Summer. Wana drive and join us?


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

mhopton said:


> We haven't been to FATS yet Paul....it's on our list for this Summer. Wana drive and join us?


Still healing some pretty crazy injuries with the wife, also, I have plans to ride moto on the 250 exc in Colorado if all goes as planned

PK


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## daflostr44 (Sep 7, 2009)

Hi TandemBear, 

I haven't ridden Demo on the tandem with my 10yo son yet, but I'd say Demo-Flow is doable, based on my ridding experience at Pogonip-UCSC-Emma McCrary flow trail in Santa Cruz. Be warned, Demo would be a very tough climb out on a tandem.

I'd say DHMaster is quite experienced on the tandem. When I went up to Northstar last year on my 26er Fandango Hardtail, they asked us to stay off the black diamond trails, which were fine with. Still had a lot of fun. Hope to go up to Northstar again this summer.

Is there a Bay Area Mtb Tandem thread? We can schedule a group ride or Northstar trip.


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## TandemBear (Aug 18, 2013)

daflostr44 said:


> Hi TandemBear,
> 
> I haven't ridden Demo on the tandem with my 10yo son yet, but I'd say Demo-Flow is doable, based on my ridding experience at Pogonip-UCSC-Emma McCrary flow trail in Santa Cruz. Be warned, Demo would be a very tough climb out on a tandem.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the replies everyone. That's kind of what I had expected, but thought I'd actually ask some of those who have done it.

Yes, it's been a long time since I've climbed out of Soquel, so I've forgotten how long it is. I'll have to get a lot more miles in before I go and as I said, I'll do it on the single first before embarking on the tandem.

There may be a Bay Area Mtb. tandem thread, but I haven't searched for it. A group ride would be nice. I'd suggest China Camp because of its central location and suitable terrain for tandems. The more adventurous can climb to the Nike site and do the back side.

As far as Tahoe goes, I have a goal this year to get in back in shape to ride Hole in the Ground trail at Donner Pass. It has been several years since we rode it on the tandem and I can't wait to do it again. But the climbs at 7,000+ feet are pretty challenging and I'm not 25 anymore! That trail and riding more of the Tahoe Rim Trail are on my list of to dos. So perhaps there's an option for a Sierra group ride as well.

Thanks again everyone for the input.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

I THINK I get what Flow means, Flow = swoopy? Anyone know Mcdowell sport loop in Phoenix, does that fit the term?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

We've ridden a number of flow trails on the Fandango and on the Jefe.

You have to get a rhythm going and avoid quick adjustments in order to prevent your stoker from getting bobbled, which causes the pilot to bobble... and your flow ceases 

We are looking at trying out the Jefe on new flow trail in Leavenworth Wa during the Bike and Brew Bavarian Bike and Brews | Vicious Cycle it's on Freund Canyon over the ridege from the Ski Hill.

They did some logging, cut a big road for the trucks, so when the logging was over, the Evergreen Trails Alliance swooped it out, building thirty eight big banks (walls) plus berms. This flow is kinda steep and some of the transitions are still rough with drainage channels, I rode it Yeasterday on my solo bike and I was on the brakes a bunch.

The big issue for me is if there are jumps "midstream" when I'm not headed straight and already upright or when the jumps flat top. We're not going to get air on a tandem, especially with a Bluto at speed, so I end up being hard on the brakes.

A good tandem flow trail lets you ride free, with minimal brake use like Kessel Run in Fruita: Kessel Run Mountain Bike Trail in Fruita, Colorado || SINGLETRACKS.COM


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Mike H, could we consider the Pinhoti, I think #3, headed towards the dirt road that takes you to Mulberry Gap????

That sure is swoopy, but does require some braking!!!

PK


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Maybe old school flow 



PMK said:


> Mike H, could we consider the Pinhoti, I think #3, headed towards the dirt road that takes you to Mulberry Gap????
> 
> That sure is swoopy, but does require some braking!!!
> 
> PK


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

PMK said:


> Mike H, could we consider the Pinhoti, I think #3, headed towards the dirt road that takes you to Mulberry Gap????
> 
> That sure is swoopy, but does require some braking!!!
> 
> PK


Paul, I agree with Ben. Although the Pinhoti, you're thinking of section 2, has "flow", I wouldn't consider it a flow trail as described here. Think of a large pump track on steroids as a better description for trails being described in this thread. Lots of high berms to rail through corners, etc.

VanMichael trail at blankets could be considered quasi-flow with some pretty cool trail features and berms.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Not sure which trail is Van Michaels or if we even rode it. Personally, I never got into the pump track thing. Not that I can't ride one, just prefer to double / double or manual through and then pedal. I learned long ago to avoid dropping a front wheel into a whoop. I'm sure you can relate.

PK


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Take a look at the Kessel trail link, click through hthe pictures, I think it's the third pic that shows the swooping bermed section that runs down the gulley.

There are few places at Bent Creek, down by the lake, where they took a road and swooped it out, banking the sides.

Personally, I find flow trails to be a bit tedious, I much prefer single track that winds through the woods: old school flow


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

mhopton said:


> .... Think of a large pump track on steroids as a better description for trails being described in this thread. Lots of high berms to rail through corners, etc. ...


I've been home sick for two days, perusing video of "flow" trails and Mike's description sounds spot on for those, like me, unfamiliar with the term.

Do any of you who have tried it have any video to share?

Video is always decieving but this one in Duluth Minnesota looks like it might be doable - Candyland W. Robert Reed, 2008, The Robust Relationship between Taxes and U.S. State Income Growth, National Tax Journal, 61:1 We might hit it when we're up there over the summer.


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