# Specialized put the rep of their Demo on the shoulders of Aaron Gwin



## ringoesroadking (Feb 4, 2008)

Wow, risky move for Specialized
Although I think there is a good chance Gwin will stand on that top step of the podium more often than not this year, regardless of what bike he is riding, as I am a firm believer that at the WC level especially, it is more the rider than the bike. Gwin seemed to be on another level the past two seasons, nobody can really argue with that.
This could get ugly if he doesn't win on the Demo. He is expected to win and if he doesn't, people will ask major questions about the Bike, maybe even Gwin himself could question it. 
What If Sam Hill starts winning on his new bike? Beating the defending world champion who happens to be riding his old bike for his old team? It would be the ultimate "Rocky story" comeback! 
I wouldn't bet on this scenario, but it is definately possible. Sam Hill re-wrote the book a few years ago, you can never count him out when he is healthy. Specialized signing Gwin has got to light a fire inside Sam Hill.
Can't wait for the season to start!


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

the demo is already proven on the wc, gwin or no gwin.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

I really hope that the politics of the whole Trek versus Specialized thing right now regarding Gwin and his contract don't get in the way of the upcoming season. He is the most consistent and best rider that has been on the circuit in a while and has really helped the progression of the sport within the US I feel. They are both American based companies and as I see it to hold him back would be a step in the wrong direction.


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## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

huh. 

I know all the names and I crochet a hell of a lot of things while I watch the movies and races but I still never care much to discuss this side of it. I've thought a little of it, but again-with the crochet.


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## Tim F. (May 22, 2006)

Gwin's going to spank Hill like the ugly step child he is! But it's still going to influence me to go out and buy a Demo, just like it didn't influence me to buy a Trek when I built a new bike last year.


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## jakester29959 (Aug 30, 2011)

Very unlikely that gwin is going to suck. He's the best there is right now


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

And the internet crystal ball award goes too...................


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

Karma's a b|tch ain't it


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## ringoesroadking (Feb 4, 2008)

Gwin will be back! I think last week was a fluke. Whether or not he will ever be dominant on a Demo we will find out?
I hope Hill smokes everyone by 8 seconds at Val di sole this year.
Great track for Sam.


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## DHRracer (Feb 14, 2004)

What if Gwin doesn't win but betters Sams time on any given track? What if Sam betters is time on any given track on the NukeProof -vs-Demo. There are so many factors involved including others getting faster. Who cares what who is riding what. Watch the races and appreciate how fast all world cup level riders actually ride. I don't think Sam's and Gwin's change really had anything to do with what bike they were riding last year. Its more about the details of contracts. What can they earn, what can they put there name on.


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## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm not sure I would base my decision of what bike to buy based on the time some guy rode it that one day.


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## yarondot (Jun 2, 2005)

Aaron Gwin Speaks About Fort William: Specialized Racing Video

Aaron Gwin Speaks About Fort William: Specialized Racing Video - sspomer - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Gwin reminds me of Tiger Woods. When Woods sucked there for two years he walked off the course during a Major tournament. The press ran back to his hotel to see what happened and why. In the meantime, someone won the tournament, but didn't get any press time. ESPN had analyst in the studio, he was on that program where they shuffle thru the top 5 story's of the day... In the meantime, a guy who won the Major was interviewed for seconds. Even the local news. 'Today Bla Bla won the..... But the big question was what happened to Tiger?' And then they would show the interview with him and the analyst! At this point I forgot who 3 of the top 5 finishers were.


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

b-kul said:


> the demo is already proven on the wc, gwin or no gwin.


Has a Specialized bike stood on the Podium since 2001? In Elite Male.......


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

In a sport where tens of thousands of dollars are spent to save grams, fabricate prototype suspension, test new geometries just to win races by a mere hundredths of a second....I think the bike has a lot to do with it. Not ALL of it. But it plays an integral part.

What happened in Fort William? I don't know. According to him, he held back and didnt compete at a top level. Why? Due to the long off season . I thought that was what off season practice and qualifying are for? To get back in the groove 

I'm liking Sam this year. He's hungry. I like hungry.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

ianjenn said:


> Has a Specialized bike stood on the Podium since 2001? In Elite Male.......


Wait, really?


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

+1. really? anyways, didnt a similar thing happen to gee when he switched? not saying it is all the bike but for a top level athlete new gear probably takes a race or two to feel totally at home on.


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## Drth Vadr (Jul 24, 2009)

b-kul said:


> +1. really? anyways, didnt a similar thing happen to gee when he switched? not saying it is all the bike but for a top level athlete new gear probably takes a race or two to feel totally at home on.


Not quite, Gee was on the podium 3x aboard the old GT Fury and came on 3rd in the over all and Championship. Not to shabby on a new bike that they tweeked the hell out of to get to work for him.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Drth Vadr said:


> Not quite, Gee was on the podium 3x aboard the old GT Fury..


he said a race or two, not an entire season. it's called reading comprehension, try it...


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

b-kul said:


> +1. really? anyways, didnt a similar thing happen to gee when he switched?


Not really, he was on the podium for his first world cup on the Fury (4th at PMB), third at the next round and third again after that.

The old Fury was pretty well dialled by the time Gee got to it, they were running a -2 degree headset and offset shock bushings to lower it. People seem to forget Marcky Marc won at Val di Sole on it a couple of years back, dry conditions too!


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

huh, i thought i remembered some fuss about gee not doing well on the new ride. probably some typical vital mtb hysteria. or maybe it was that nasty otb crash he had at some race.


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

Fix the Spade said:


> Wait, really?


I think ONLY A FEW since PALMER they have gotten a first place.....well I was right 3 times they have stood atop the podium! Look at all the 1st places he had before link below.

5th Sep 2010	UCI - World Championships '10	Mont-Sainte-Anne	Elite	Australia	1st	62	100%	4:37.93 (SAM HILL)

20th Sep 2009	2009 Nissan World Cup #8	Schladming	Elite	MER09	1st	221	100%	4:01.10 (SAM HILL)

26th Jul 2009	2009 Nissan World Cup #6	Mont-Sainte-Anne	Elite	MER09	1st	157	100%	4:38.44 (SAM HILL)

Sam HILL's race history - Roots & Rain


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## supramk388 (Mar 6, 2007)

Qualifying times are up

WORLD CUP QUALIFYING RESULTS: Gee and Rachel Atherton Go Fastest at Val di Sole 2013 - News Blogs - Vital MTB

Larger bike may have helped some.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

ya, 2nd vds qualie time, that should quell any e-specualation.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

b-kul said:


> ya, 2nd vds qualie time, that should quell any e-specualation.


Only if he wins the race


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## billybobzia (Jan 10, 2004)

Fix the Spade said:


> Only if he wins the race


really, no, its not the bike, story over..


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

billybobzia said:


> really, no, its not the bike, story over..


Only if he wins the race, anything less than first and there will still be voices.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

and the e speculation will go on.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

and the e speculation will go on.


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## ringoesroadking (Feb 4, 2008)

b-kul said:


> and the e speculation will go on.


No more speculation. Gwin will be on a one off custom frame next race. Specialized has to be in full on damage control, they will do everything they can to give the man a bike he can win on! This is getting ridiculous already.


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## SeaHag (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm really curious what Aaron Gwin is really thinking to himself right now. For the past two seasons he'd dominated the sport with the Trek team. Now not only has he failed to make even the bottom step of the podium at all this year on the W.C. circuit, but his less hyped teammate continues to one up him.

Just as an experiment, I wish he could race the Trek bike in one world cup this year. If he returned to form, SPECIALIZED would have to scrap their Demo and start over.

I'd like to see him 'gwinning' again; but part of me thinks this is karma for the shady way he broke ties with a company who did right by him till the end.


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## trailbildr (Dec 8, 2004)

Don't forget that Spec'd gets a lot of feedback from Gwin on the Demo. Sure, they want him to win, but as long as people are talking (marketing $ide) and the engineering feedback loop is working (engineering $ide), they'll be patient with Gwin.

Y'all are right that it's the rider and not the bike. It's one of the big reasons that Spec'd wanted him, I'm sure. People have said that the Demo is an old platform and I'm sure that Brandon, Chamberlain and Buck want some fresh feedback to improve the product. Continued product improvement has been their MO for many years.

mk


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## ringoesroadking (Feb 4, 2008)

After 3 rounds I wonder how many of the top WC riders have wondered if they would be alot faster on a Trek?


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## OffCamber (May 29, 2005)

I think he'll be fine with more time on the bike. He stated that he went off the track and almost came to a complete stop. As far as the Demo being an old platform, there were 3 single pivot designs on the podium this weekend. Who knows though, guys are getting faster.


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

Training during off season is key ... Troy was happy


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

ringoesroadking said:


> After 3 rounds I wonder how many of the top WC riders have wondered if they would be alot faster on a Trek?


Nobody, what they will be wondering is what kind of idiot would sign for Specialized.

It's not gone unnoticed how much _happier_ (nevermind healthier, faster) both Hill and Fairclough are now that they're away from that team. 
The Spesh team are getting a reputation as legend killers, who in their right mind signs for a team that goes and leaves you on your own for six months? Syndicate, One Ind, TWR, Saracen, MS etc wouldn't dream of that, yet Spesh have behaved like a bunch of complete amateurs. I know bike shop teams that prepare more thoroughly for club races than Spesh did for the Fort Bill world cup.

This year is turning into a gong show for Gwin, fastest in the world to scraping the top ten, getting smashed by his team mate _and_ the guy he replaced, only 1.5s ahead of Brendog. There isn't even an injury or a bad bike to hide behind. It begs a serious question how much further could Brosnan go with someone else. It also begs a question as to why no one within that team is fired yet.

I don't think anyone in the top teams wonder if Trek could make them faster, but they must be looking at Spesh Racing and laughing their asses off.


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## Drth Vadr (Jul 24, 2009)

Fix the Spade said:


> Nobody, what they will be wondering is what kind of idiot would sign for Specialized.
> 
> It's not gone unnoticed how much _happier_ (nevermind healthier, faster) both Hill and Fairclough are now that they're away from that team.
> The Spesh team are getting a reputation as legend killers, who in their right mind signs for a team that goes and leaves you on your own for six months? Syndicate, One Ind, TWR, Saracen, MS etc wouldn't dream of that, yet Spesh have behaved like a bunch of complete amateurs. I know bike shop teams that prepare more thoroughly for club races than Spesh did for the Fort Bill world cup.
> ...


+ 1 from all the top teams and riders. I like the fresh take on Gwinn, but I do think many riders that are just outside the top ten are thinking a Trek in concert with TRW and they could make the leap to the podium. 
Each individual is different and for Gwinn it is part the bike, but I put most it on Gwinn's arrogance for going will his own suspension set-up. I wonder if he even tested the bike speced with the DB/WC Boxxer or Ohlins prototype/WC Boxxer or even with his desired all Fox set-up before putting ink to paper. Even Sam Hill was not arrogant enough to make such demands going to a small outfit like CRC. I don't know and don't claim to know anything about this, maybe someone can enlighten me, but why would someone throw out all that accumulated suspension data out the window for a shock 2yrs removed and a fork that has never been equiped to a factory sponsored Demo?


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## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

it's all a pitch, he'll kill it later and then it'll be all about the bike again.


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

I don't think it's as easy as just saying 'it's the rider not the bike.' I believe it is very largely biased toward the rider and his/her preparation, work ethic, etc. But there is something to be said about the bike too. Put Minnaar on Bender's old Karpiel Apocalypse and see if the bike changes anything. 

To me, Gwinn seems like he's ham-fisting his way down each course, not staying light and floating through things like he used to. Is that him or the bike? Hard to say, but I'd bet a bit of both. The FSR suspension design on the Demo is quite ancient in bike years. Not that old means bad, but there has been a lot of progress in the past 3-4 years on suspension design. The Demo's rear end has remained largely unchanged since 2004. Now I know this is heresy, but maybe the Demo's FSR suspension system has maxed out its capability. I've um... demoed... a Demo, and I had very high hopes for it. I was thoroughly unimpressed after having ridden bikes like a Glory or V-10c. It felt like an old school plow bike with swoopy frame tubes. 

In the end, it's all guesswork from us outsiders. But whether bike or rider, it boils down to cold hard results. Gwinn isn't turning many heads this year. Sam Hill leaves the Demo and his results are looking better and better. That doesn't shine favorably on Speshy. or the Demo.


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## his dudeness (May 9, 2007)

Well, to it's credit the demo corners really well and it does charge through rough stuff nicely too. I'm just thinking that it lacks in the pedal efficiency dept. Specialized has clung to the FSR design for so long while others have innovated on their own and have come up with newer and more sophisticated systems that are plush but also pedal well. I just find it funny that Specialized claim their system is the best, however advanced single pivots and vpp-esque designs are currently ruling the roost. Maybe its time for them to ditch fsr, or figure out how to make it more pedal efficient.


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

Good points. But Speshy would 1) never admit that their stuff isn't the best thing ever made, or 2) ditch FSR while they still can get royalties from companies that use that type of mechanism. They have always seemed to me to be more 'for profit' than many of the other companies. All companies and riders need to make a living, but Speshy seems to like living a little more comfortably. Their prices versus technology advancements prove that. Just my perspective. Even though Gwinn said that money wasn't his reasoning for leaving Trek, I bet it did play an important role. Heck, I'd probably ride a Demo too if they were offering to put me into a higher tax bracket.


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## HungarianBarbarian (Jul 24, 2008)

Is there any other WC race bike with a 421 mm chainstay?


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## nightofthefleming (Jun 14, 2009)

charging_rhinos said:


> Good points. But Speshy would 1) never admit that their stuff isn't the best thing ever made, or 2) ditch FSR while they still can get royalties from companies that use that type of mechanism. They have always seemed to me to be more 'for profit' than many of the other companies. All companies and riders need to make a living, but Speshy seems to like living a little more comfortably. Their prices versus technology advancements prove that. Just my perspective. Even though Gwinn said that money wasn't his reasoning for leaving Trek, I bet it did play an important role. Heck, I'd probably ride a Demo too if they were offering to put me into a higher tax bracket.


FSR patent did in fact expire this year, did it not?


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## PsyCro (Jun 8, 2007)

Prototype Specialized DH Bike - SPY SHOT - Pinkbike

Not the bike/suspension?? Look at that FSR pivot.. obviously they are trying to get that back end to track better. Shallow axle paths bikes are not something you see much of on the podium.


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

Chainstay pivot looks like a Giant NRS haha


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

HungarianBarbarian said:


> Is there any other WC race bike with a 421 mm chainstay?


Nope, Devinci's bike is 427, all the rest are 435-445mm, except the Orange which is a bit longer thanks to Orange's obsession with making the longest bike possible.

The problem with blaming the bike is that there's a big, Brosnan shaped hole in any theory that the bike's not fast enough for podiums. Although I'd love to see him on a Trek or Devinci next year (or for the Syndicate to grab him).


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## Djg24 (Jul 7, 2011)

PsyCro said:


> Prototype Specialized DH Bike - SPY SHOT - Pinkbike
> 
> Not the bike/suspension?? Look at that FSR pivot.. obviously they are trying to get that back end to track better. Shallow axle paths bikes are not something you see much of on the podium.


That lower FSR link looks a lot more like what Norco uses on its bike rather than the standard specialized link.


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

Fix the Spade said:


> ... or for the Syndicate to grab him.


I'd LOVE to see Brosnan and Gwinn on the Syndicate. That would be so sweet.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

Drth Vadr said:


> + 1 from all the top teams and riders. I like the fresh take on Gwinn, but I do think many riders that are just outside the top ten are thinking a Trek in concert with TRW and they could make the leap to the podium.
> Each individual is different and for Gwinn it is part the bike, but I put most it on Gwinn's arrogance for going will his own suspension set-up. I wonder if he even tested the bike speced with the DB/WC Boxxer or Ohlins prototype/WC Boxxer or even with his desired all Fox set-up before putting ink to paper. Even Sam Hill was not arrogant enough to make such demands going to a small outfit like CRC. I don't know and don't claim to know anything about this, maybe someone can enlighten me, but why would someone throw out all that accumulated suspension data out the window for a shock 2yrs removed and a fork that has never been equiped to a factory sponsored Demo?


easy. its all about the money. to run that setup he would have to go on team monster which means dropping redbull, probably his biggest source of income. also he is probably making a fair chunk of change off of fox. so he only signed factory spec/ tld. probably not the best decision perforance wise but defenitely the most lucrative.


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## Drth Vadr (Jul 24, 2009)

b-kul said:


> easy. its all about the money. to run that setup he would have to go on team monster which means dropping redbull, probably his biggest source of income. also he is probably making a fair chunk of change off of fox. so he only signed factory spec/ tld. probably not the best decision perforance wise but defenitely the most lucrative.


Makes perfect sense, don't bit the hand that feeds you.


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## Ithnu (Feb 16, 2007)

syl3 said:


> Chainstay pivot looks like a Giant NRS haha


Giant licensed the NRS design from Specialized.


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## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

Ithnu said:


> Giant licensed the NRS design from Specialized.


'Haha'

Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2


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## squidonagixxer (Jan 26, 2011)

And meanwhile Sam had his chainstays shortened. Hmmmm?


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

So what happened to Gwin in S.A? I didnt see the race but heard he went down. 
As far as the demo is concerned, a buddy and I swapped bikes for a day. I missed my Gambler the whole time. After a few runs of getting everything dialed in the demo still wasn't as fast as my Gambler. 
I think in Gwin's case it may be a matter of the bike and not the rider. IMO.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Swissam said:


> I think in Gwin's case it may be a matter of the bike and not the rider. IMO.


Except for Brosnan, Brayton and last year Charre all getting great results on it. In the last eighteen months Demos have won British DH races (against teams like GT and the Syndicate), Aussie DH races and a World Championship, this year they've been on World Cup podiums more than once.

But not in the hands of Arron Gwin, he forgot his six P's this year.

Re: SA Worlds, he slid over near the top of the course, so did Stevie Smith and others, it was a really slippery course! That was unlucky as he looked pretty fast, not Atherton/Minnar fast but he could have had a medal.


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