# Honda Element - Opinions



## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

This is mostly for people who live in northern climates and have a Honda Element. I have been looking at replacing my Prelude (now that a kid has come along and gotten more into MTB). The element seems like a good choice for utility and all of that. I would be using it for hauling and for work (IT Consultant and sometimes have to carry computers, servers etc). I really don't want a larger SUV as I like a more car like vehicle. The elemnet seems like a good choice.

The main question I have is it's performace in the snow. The last 24 hours has seen us get 50cm in one dump which is a lot for us where we are in ontario. I have winters on the Prelude and my wife's Mazda 3but there was no way we were going anywhere until the plow came along. The cars just piled the snow in front stopping the car dead. For the amount of times this happens (maybe once every 2 years) it is not a huge concern but I would like to know of people's experience of the element driving in the snow. I would be getting the AWD version and be putting snow tires on it for the winter. Does the element handle well in the snow or would I be better off going to a small SUV like a CR-V.


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## 01Forester (Feb 5, 2007)

I don't own one but have been thinking about one to replace my wife's 99 CR-V. I live outside of Winnipeg and 2 neighbours have them and have no problems. I saw them out after the huge snow dump we had on Dec 31. From what I understand its the same Real-Time AWD as the CR-V and my wife has never been stuck in snow either. 

I don't know what the ground clearnace is like - that would be my only concern.


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## goat (Mar 5, 2004)

From what is sounds like, you are concened with safety. While, the element does get good gas milage, I would doubt that it is trustworthy in conditions that you stated. I think you should get an suv or maybe a small one. A great suz are the jeep libertys. they are not that big (dont know if they fall under small or reg.) and they have excellet 4x4 capabilities that will keep you safe in the snow. They come stock with snow tires, and have a wonderful interior.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

I don't want a full sized SUV. Like I said where I am we get a huge dump maybe once every couple years. Most of the time it will be a small amount of snow and I am sure the AWD and snow tires will be fine for that. I have managed just fine in front wheel drive cars and snow tires but if i get a hauler I would want something a little more heavy suty.


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## 01Forester (Feb 5, 2007)

I'm not sure I agree with Goat. I drive a Subaru Forester (Traded in the 95 Pathfinder) and not only is the Forester better on gas but its also a much safer vehicle (great occupant protection). 

Both me and my wife run a dedicated set of winter tires on steel rims. Its makes a world of different. And its inexpensive.

Stick with the Japanse brands - you will never regret it!

I have lived in the country that past 14 years and have commuted over 100 kms a day to the office and have never missed a day because of snow. I made it in when pople who drive full size Chevy and Dodge 4x4 trucks didn't. Maybe I'm crazy!


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## Coaster? (Jun 16, 2004)

kaikara said:


> This is mostly for people who live in northern climates and have a Honda Element. I have been looking at replacing my Prelude (now that a kid has come along and gotten more into MTB). The element seems like a good choice for utility and all of that. I would be using it for hauling and for work (IT Consultant and sometimes have to carry computers, servers etc). I really don't want a larger SUV as I like a more car like vehicle. The elemnet seems like a good choice.
> 
> The main question I have is it's performace in the snow. The last 24 hours has seen us get 50cm in one dump which is a lot for us where we are in ontario. I have winters on the Prelude and my wife's Mazda 3but there was no way we were going anywhere until the plow came along. The cars just piled the snow in front stopping the car dead. For the amount of times this happens (maybe once every 2 years) it is not a huge concern but I would like to know of people's experience of the element driving in the snow. I would be getting the AWD version and be putting snow tires on it for the winter. Does the element handle well in the snow or would I be better off going to a small SUV like a CR-V.


I've got an Element up here in Flagstaff, AZ (~100 inches of snow per year) and I'm very happy with it. I'd recommend AWD (obviously) and snow tires, as the stock tires are a bit wimpy.
Ground clearance is good, but obviously less than a full-on SUV.
I've had zero problems getting around during the past two winters. Then again, I haven't run into 20 inches of unplowed snow yet. That's a lot of white stuff.
But for carrying computers, bikes, and kids, through slightly less extreme winter weather, I would highly recommend the Element.


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## Alta825 (Mar 9, 2004)

*Element here in UT...*

and no complaints in the snow department. definitely put the best snow tires you can afford on it and rally away. We live 2 miles up a snowpacked dirt road here in the Wasatch and never had any issues with traction, the little shoebox is a full blown tank in the white stuff.

Our only complaint is power and mileage. If you drive city only with limited highways you're fine but when you have the cruise set on 80 the mileage sorta sucks (20-22) considering it only has a 4 cylinder but when its as aerodynamic as brickhouse.... also with mountainous driving I'd gladly trade a few mpg's for a V6. that is one of our only complaints. FYI 05 we have a AWD EX w/ 80k+and zero probs


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## Coaster? (Jun 16, 2004)

Alta825 said:


> and no complaints in the snow department. definitely put the best snow tires you can afford on it and rally away. We live 2 miles up a snowpacked dirt road here in the Wasatch and never had any issues with traction, the little shoebox is a full blown tank in the white stuff.
> 
> Our only complaint is power and mileage. If you drive city only with limited highways you're fine but when you have the cruise set on 80 the mileage sorta sucks (20-22) considering it only has a 4 cylinder but when its as aerodynamic as brickhouse.... also with mountainous driving I'd gladly trade a few mpg's for a V6. that is one of our only complaints. FYI 05 we have a AWD EX w/ 80k+and zero probs


I agree with the highway mpg, although I think we get slightly better than 22 mpg. The Element is in dire need of a 6th gear.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

If you have an auto they addressed that with a 5 speed trans for 2007. I am not very worried about the mileage. Obviously the less gas it drinks the better but I don't put huge mileage on our cars. Plus anything will be better then the prelude and the premium gas it is drinking.


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## Danke (Sep 19, 2005)

Go here for info on the Element.

I would have had one except for kids, motorcycles etc. I went Ridgeline.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

We went Ridgeline and Element. Both are excellent vehicles, and thrifty in fuel consumption for their given class. However, both suffer from disappointing fuel consumption when one has a lead foot, or even a slightly heavier than normal weighted foot (every vehicle suffers, but the Element’s poor aerodynamics exaggerate the issue). Since we live a warmer climate, Oklahoma, we went with the SC and use the RL for when the snow/ice comes, which it has a lot this year. 

We actually always kind of liked the quirky Element but were concerned with its safety features. The lack of safety items have been addressed this year and are standard features (side/curtain air bags, de-featable traction control, wider stance/lower roll over potential-SC only, etc.) The Element has gotten over 25 mpg with every fill up so far (best was 27.4 mpg – 7K miles) and the RL has delivered as advertised, 21 mpg, 50K miles. We are hardly ever in a hurry and drive 90% highway. Like above, I also recommend you head over to elementownersclub dot com for specific questions.


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## brassnipples (Feb 26, 2006)

I was concerned about how our Element would do in the snow based on it's not so good traction on dirt (mostly the tires I guess). It's been surprisingly good though, even when trying to play on snow packed roads I've been unable to lose control at modest speeds. I really like pulling the hand brake to over steer around turns in our civic, but the element's rear just won't come lose unless you really lay into it. And no troubles at all getting enough traction to drive like a sane person.

I would recommend a 2006+ model though, they added safety features that year and also it rides a whole lot quieter than previous years.


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## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

brassnipples said:


> I would recommend a 2006+ model though, they added safety features that year and also it rides a whole lot quieter than previous years.


And the SRS in the 2007 Element is even better with a driver's seat position sensor, front passenger's seat weight sensors, and side curtain airbags.


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## ChromedToast (Sep 19, 2006)

Just have to add what I hated about my element. Crosswinds, performance, traction, sweaty butt from the (to me) very uncomfortable seats and a fairly rough ride. For a good awd system I would say subaru beats any USDM honda. For cargo area I would say Odyssey>element>crv>subaru. Also FWD with snow tires > AWD with allseasons.


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## ChromedToast (Sep 19, 2006)

Just have to add what I hated about my element. Crosswinds, performance, traction, sweaty butt from the (to me) very uncomfortable seats and a fairly rough ride. For a good awd system I would say subaru beats any USDM honda. For cargo area I would say Odyssey>element>crv>subaru. Also FWD with snow tires > AWD with allseasons.


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## ChromedToast (Sep 19, 2006)

Just have to add what I hated about my element. Crosswinds, performance, traction, sweaty butt from the (to me) very uncomfortable seats and a fairly rough ride. For a good awd system I would say subaru beats any USDM honda. For cargo area I would say Odyssey>element>crv>subaru. Also FWD with snow tires > AWD with allseasons.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

Yeah i am hesitant on the element for a couple of reasons. The storage and config is exactly what I need but I think it is underpowered for the class it is in. That coupled with it's poor fuel economy makes me think jumping to a V6 would be a better idea. If they made it with with a v6 and/or better gearing and fuel economy I would be all over it. But those minuses are making me look elsewhere. 

I still need to drive one. I have driven a Cr-V but I need to get an element out for a drive. I love honda's and my Prelude has been fantastic for 7.5 years with no problems. I would love to go with another one if it suits my needs.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

It is ugly. It gets horrible gas milage. It is absolutely gutless.

It creates it's own roadrage within it's driver.... unless you are the type that likes to pick his nose or talk on the cellphone or whatever while attempting to drive.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

Ugly is subjective - I think it is cool looking myself.

Horrible gas mileage is 8mpg. It should get better gas mileage then it does for it 4 banger but it's shape and gearing doesn't help.

It would be a better if they offered a v6 version.

The last part I don't have a clue what you are talking about. Thanks for the input though even though it was worthless.



29Colossus said:


> It is ugly. It gets horrible gas milage. It is absolutely gutless.
> 
> It creates it's own roadrage within it's driver.... unless you are the type that likes to pick his nose or talk on the cellphone or whatever while attempting to drive.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

kaikara said:


> Ugly is subjective - I think it is cool looking myself.


And you asked for opinions.



> Horrible gas mileage is 8mpg. It should get better gas mileage then it does for it 4 banger but it's shape and gearing doesn't help.


No, 22 is horrible gas mileage.



> It would be a better if they offered a v6 version.


What would be better?



> The last part I don't have a clue what you are talking about. Thanks for the input though even though it was worthless.


Pffft... it is a freakin car. I was pretty clear. I will try again for fun.

The car pisses off the driver due to it being WEAK and pathetic in power and handling and _spirit_ for that matter. It has NO power. It can be very aggravating for the driver. In many's opinion, the vehicle is UGLY. YOU asked for it.... opinion. 22mpg is NOT good gas mileage, 60 is. It will get less than 22 as it is anyway.

If you get irritated at opinion that you ask for on a car, then I think you need to head to the dealer and buy the car. Many people like it just fine I guess.


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## IAmCosmo (Apr 11, 2004)

I actually like the Elements. I really like the new Element SC's. A friend has one, and it rides great, and there's tons of room inside it.

I really like this one - http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/1876885


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

Your opinion was great - the rambling at the end didn't make a lot of sense.

Name me a vehicle that gets 60mpg and has tons of power, towing capicity or hauling space and that drives like a sports car. There is always a compromise when buying a vehicle. You aren't going to be able get a car with a huge amount of power that gets 60mpg.

If you read the first post it is going to be a second car that will see duty as a hauler and work vehicle. The interior configuration of the element is one of the best on the market for what I need to do and many agree about this. If you can find me a mythical auto that drives like my prelude, has the space of the element, 300HP and gets 60mpg let me know because I will buy it tomorrow.

As for road raging - if the vehicle you are driving causes you to lose your mind and flip out on other motorists perhaps you should seek some help.



29Colossus said:


> And you asked for opinions.
> 
> No, 22 is horrible gas mileage.
> 
> ...


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

kaikara said:


> Your opinion was great - the rambling at the end didn't make a lot of sense.


You just didn't understand it. That doesn't make it, "rambling". Drive a car that pisses you off and maybe you would understand. Some people don't get pissed off at gutless vehicles that sap their pocketbook needlessly in poor gas mileage because they would rather pick their nose or talk on the cellphone while driving, or they just don't know anything else.



> Name me a vehicle that gets 60mpg and has tons of power, towing capicity or hauling space and that drives like a sports car. There is always a compromise when buying a vehicle. You aren't going to be able get a car with a huge amount of power that gets 60mpg.


22mpg - Horrible gas milage.
60mpg - Good gas milage.

Some people compromise and end up with horrible gas milage. It just is.



> If you read the first post it is going to be a second car that will see duty as a hauler and work vehicle. The interior configuration of the element is one of the best on the market for what I need to do and many agree about this. If you can find me a mythical auto that drives like my prelude, has the space of the element, 300HP and gets 60mpg let me know because I will buy it tomorrow.


It is your compromise. I just offered my opinions.



> As for road raging - if the vehicle you are driving causes you to lose your mind and flip out on other motorists perhaps you should seek some help.


:skep:

Who is "flipping out on other motorists"?

The rage would be directed at the gutless and cute car that I am driving. It would be directed at the source of aggravation. The car.

So there you have my opinion on the car. No need for much else. I wish you luck and happiness with your Honda purchase. A Honda is a good vehicle, but it is what it is.

:thumbsup:


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

29Colossus said:


> It is your compromise. I just offered my opinions.


Okay because of the limitations of the element (which you voiced your opinions on) give me a couple of options of different vehicles that will fit my needs. Hauler with good amount of space, AWD or 4x4, good in the snow, etc.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

kaikara said:


> Okay because of the limitations of the element (which you voiced your opinions on) give me a couple of options of different vehicles that will fit my needs. Hauler with good amount of space, AWD or 4x4, good in the snow, etc.


Yeah right... like I could fit into the compromise of my opinions? No way.

I would buy a 2007 Cadillac ESV and be done with it. Black on black on black. 400 horsepower plus. Doesn't have to be cute or pretty. The J.M. Weston patent leather shoes do that.


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

You ramble about the horrible mpg of an Element & then talk about a 8 passenger SUV w/ a v8 that literally costs twice as much and probably gets half the mpg's of the Element.

Talk about comparing apples and oranges. 

You make as much sense here as you do on f88.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

Locoman said:


> You ramble about the horrible mpg of an Element & then talk about a 8 passenger SUV w/ a v8 that literally costs twice as much and probably gets half the mpg's of the Element.
> 
> Talk about comparing apples and oranges.
> 
> You make as much sense here as you do on f88.


What a crack up. I am not comparing anything to anything.

I could pick a bulldozer to drive and it wouldn't change my opinions on the Element.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

2 x as much - try three times as much. I doubt even one of those has ever been on a dirt road.

Regardless it doesn't even come close to fitting my needs. Maybe it is good for a soccer mom in the suburbs who wants to have a hard time finding a space when she goes to get groceries. If i wanted a full sized SUV I would buy one but that is not what I am looking for.

That is the point of the thread - opinions on the element and if the element isn't good then what would be good in it's place.



Locoman said:


> You ramble about the horrible mpg of an Element & then talk about a 8 passenger SUV w/ a v8 that literally costs twice as much and probably gets half the mpg's of the Element.
> 
> Talk about comparing apples and oranges.
> 
> You make as much sense here as you do on f88.


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## bicyclejames (May 16, 2005)

*Love my element.*

I love my lil element. Me and my lady ride any and everywhere, even during lunch breaks. So I carry 2 bikes in the car at all times. With the E you load bike standing up right with both wheels on. The only other car I know that you can do that with is the toyota mini van and the honda oddsey mini van. I love how easy it is to load the bikes. BTW I avg 24MPG and set cruse ctrl on the hwy to 70 because the car wants to run around 80 MPH. As for snow, I dont know. I live in SoCal but you might post this question in the Honda Element forum. http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/


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## bermluvr (Aug 2, 2006)

I, personally, LOVE the Element SC... I think it looks so badass. I dont actually like the regular Elements nearly as much.

Perfect car for riders I think though. So utilitarian. I also really love Xterras.


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## dusthuffer (Nov 30, 2006)

kaikara said:


> Ugly is subjective - I think it is cool looking myself.
> 
> Horrible gas mileage is 8mpg. It should get better gas mileage then it does for it 4 banger but it's shape and gearing doesn't help.
> 
> ...


it is the most gutless suv-type thing ever made - you'll see that on the first test drive


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

FisherCraig said:


> I, personally, LOVE the Element SC... I think it looks so badass. I dont actually like the regular Elements nearly as much.
> 
> Perfect car for riders I think though. So utilitarian. I also really love Xterras.


:lol:

I really did laugh at that.

The Element looks "badass"?

:skep:

"Utilitarian"?

:lol:

Good stuff. Wow in America.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

dusthuffer said:


> it is the most gutless suv-type thing ever made - you'll see that on the first test drive


Hmm, the '07 Element's performance numbers seem to be about average in the compact SUV category. Compare the '07 Element to a Rav4 4-cylinder, for example; the E does 0-60 in 8.8 seconds the Rav4 in 9.4 seconds. The AWD Element comes in around 9 seconds, not too bad and obviously not the most gutless.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

What I said in an earlier post still stands - looks are subjective. I think the element can look very rugged and some people like the look and others don't. Just because your opinion differs from someone else's doesn't mean that they are right and you are wrong.

As for utilitarian I think it offers things that not many other vehicles can do. The fact that you think it is ugly perfectly fits the meaning of utilitarian - it is not worried about looks and is designed to do the job it was built to do.



29Colossus said:


> :lol:
> 
> I really did laugh at that.
> 
> ...


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## misctwo (Oct 24, 2004)

you kids and your opinions.... 

i was eyeing these but when i got closer and looked at the interior, i was disappointed.

but that comment about the sweaty butt is basically a dealbreaker.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

The SC has cloth seats, but no AWD might be another deal breaker for you.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

And it's stil versatile.


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## jonsocal (Jan 30, 2004)

*Only seats 4....*

I like these Honda Elemets but they only seat 4. Quite often I have 5 in the car when going camping. (Me, girlfriend, son and two of his friends.) That unfortunately put this out of the question. I was thinking about the new Jeep Wrangler 4-door. One of those with a roof basket for gear and hitch rack for bikes and I would be good to go! Not sure about th mileage though. Can't be too much worse off than the Element though. (In fact I just looked it up, it only get's 16mpg city compared to 19 highway...) :sad: OK, maybe the new '07 Forrester GT...??


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

jonsocal said:


> I like these Honda Elemets but they only seat 4.


Yeah the 4 seats also makes me hesitate. I would like 5 as we plan to have another child in the next year but 2 children is going to be our max (well barring twins ) . Really a 5 seater with two car seats in it makes it a 4 seater. There is not much room between the two seats anyways. Plus we have the second vehicle if we need to haul 5.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

kaikara said:


> What I said in an earlier post still stands - looks are subjective. I think the element can look very rugged and some people like the look and others don't. Just because your opinion differs from someone else's doesn't mean that they are right and you are wrong.
> 
> As for utilitarian I think it offers things that not many other vehicles can do. The fact that you think it is ugly perfectly fits the meaning of utilitarian - it is not worried about looks and is designed to do the job it was built to do.




Saying an Element is "badass" in just about ANY way, is pretty dang funny to me.

I don't believe that utilitarian means ugly... and it doesn't mean ugly. It never has meant ugly. Something ugly is just ugly. Utilitarian isn't ugly. Ugly is. The Element is also WAY about the looks. The looks were a HUGE portion of the design. Honda designed it to look precisely the way it looks... :lol:

Either way, in my opinion, it is HARDLY utilitarian. It is also very ugly. It is also horribly gutless. It also gets poor gas mileage.

Other than those negatives, it is great.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

Again looks are subjective - some will like it and some won't.

Whether something is utilitarian or not is dependent on the role that you want it to fill. If you want a vehicle to haul gravel then the element will not be for you. You can't say that the element is hardly utilitarian without qualifying what its role is meant to be. Utilitarian means pretaining to utility. Utility is the quality of being useful. What is useful to one may not useful to another depending on the role it is meant to fill.

I point you back to the initial post and the purpose of this thread. I gave some of my reasons for looking at the element and the main uses it would be for. I would be glad to hear suggestions of vehicles that would fit MY needs other than the element if you feel that it doesn't fit in the role that I need.



29Colossus said:


> Either way, in my opinion, it is HARDLY utilitarian. It is also very ugly. It is also horribly gutless. It also gets poor gas mileage.
> 
> Other than those negatives, it is great.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

kaikara said:


> Again looks are subjective - some will like it and some won't.


It is ALL relative. There is NOTHING to believe in in this world.

Like I said... WOW AMERICA.


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## bomber (Jan 13, 2004)

My mom has an Element that I have spent way too much time driving (my pathfinder has had two extended stays in the bodyshop now due to retarded ski moms who can't seem to drive to the resort without plowing in to me).

Here is what I don't like about it.

1. Noisy. The lack of carpet and whatnot make for a louder car than I like. On the freeway I always feel like I have to talk way too loud to have a conversation.

2. As previously stated, the MPG is a tad low for a small 4cyl car. It also has a very small tank for some reason.

3. The stock tires SUCK. After replacing them the car handles snow/dirt like a champ. With the stock tires? Snow was no fun.

4. The rear doors can be a pain in the ass in close quarters (ie downtown parking garages that have ridiculously small spaces).

Other than that though, I think it is cool as hell. I gotta say I like my Pathfinder better, but that's not really fair as the Element is a much less inexpensive car. Hard to beat for the price really.


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## EnduroDoug (Apr 23, 2005)

I used to hate the way the Element looks, but while my wife was doing the paperwork for her Hybrid Civic, I started playing around inside the Element in the showroom and quickly became intrigued. Our other car died 2 weeks later and I went back, test drove the Element, and coming from an 18mpg V6 Rodeo, I thought the Element's 22-24mpg was a nice step up. Not great, but not horrendous.

I bought the 2003 Element about two years ago and love it. It took some getting used to because of the top-heaviness, but I loved how practical it was. The first year I had it, I had the rear passenger seat permanently flipped up and would roll my 20.5" mtn bike into it with the seat up high and front wheel on (an interior rack seems horribly pointless to me) and would take a bungie and strap it in place. Took about 5 seconds. I later moved to a off-the-back rack so we have more interior room.

As for your specific questions about safety/handling/performance in the bad weather, the tires you choose are everything. I live in Washington and take it up and over the mountain passes all the time through all conditions. I have the model that basically kicks the AWD in when it's needed, and I have had been very impressed. Driving straight through 12" of snow without chains or studded tires with ease and just last week I had to drive on the snow-covered grassy shoulder to get around a Chevy Blazer stuck on snow/ice. I've also taken it 100km over dirt-covered mountain passes in BC with some pretty tight, loose switchbacks. No, it wasn't as easy as the guys in the V8 Xterra I was following, but still not bad.

Whether you like the looks of the exterior/interior isn't the point. The point is that, like with most cars the quality of the tires and the driver's abilities matter almost as much as whatever is under the hood. If my Element died tomorrow, I'd buy a new one on Monday.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

bomber said:


> Other than that though, I think it is cool as hell. I gotta say I like my Pathfinder better, but that's not really fair as the Element is a much less inexpensive car.


It is much less inexpensive?

:skep:

Come on, it is too early for me for that kind of crap.

:lol:


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

29Colossus said:


> It is much less inexpensive?
> 
> :skep:
> 
> ...


Yes,

2007 Pathfinder:
MSRP: $25,600 - $36,000

2007 Element:
MSRP: $18,900 - $23,495

Apples to oranges. Maybe you were thinking Xterra:
MSRP: $20,050 - $27,950


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

TCW said:


> Yes,
> 
> 2007 Pathfinder:
> MSRP: $25,600 - $36,000
> ...




What's your excuse?

The Element is less _expensive_ than the others, not less inexpensive.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

29Colossus said:


> What's your excuse?
> 
> The Element is less _expensive_ than the others, not less inexpensive.


I sure everyone knew what the poster meant. Didn't have anything else meaningful to add to the thread so you are resorting to becoming a spelling/grammer nazi


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

bomber said:


> My mom has an Element that I have spent way too much time driving (my pathfinder has had two extended stays in the bodyshop now due to retarded ski moms who can't seem to drive to the resort without plowing in to me).
> 
> Here is what I don't like about it.
> 
> ...


Thank god - someone actually posting to this thread with some useful information. Thanks for all the info.


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## mmmm (Aug 14, 2006)

I have owned an Element for a little over a year.

*Cons*

Not the greatest gas milage but it is a baby SUV.
Boxy
4 seats
wimpy tires when new (upgrade as a condition of purchase )
Like the CRV its not quick.

*Pros*

Can fit bikes inside with the wheels on!
EASY TO CLEAN:thumbsup: 
Easy to move seats, unlike other Suv's I have owned. And you have the option of removing them or just popping them out of the way
4 seats (great excuse when you do not want to take all the neigbours kids)
Lots of space
The pull down tail gate is great as a seat.

Bottom line this is not a great comfort vehicle. No carpet, simple, spartan, suicide doors, only four seats and boxy. But if you have a child, three bikes and a dog this is a great vehicle.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

29Colossus said:


> What's your excuse?
> 
> The Element is less _expensive_ than the others, not less inexpensive.


Uh, durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

kaikara said:


> I sure everyone knew what the poster meant. Didn't have anything else meaningful to add to the thread so you are resorting to becoming a spelling/grammer nazi


:lol:

I just read the words on the page.

It was said in jest anyway - to the original poster AND to TWC.

It is OK to settle down and just have fun with it. Try it... go ahead... try and have some fun with it. You can do it... I know you can!

:thumbsup:


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## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

dusthuffer said:


> it is the most gutless suv-type thing ever made - you'll see that on the first test drive


And that's compared to what vehicle with the same capabilities and bike space as the E?


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## bomber (Jan 13, 2004)

29Colossus said:


> It is much less inexpensive?
> 
> :skep:
> 
> ...


Blah I am on vicodin and muscle relaxers for a neck injury...I am surprised that even came out in english


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

Since this is a second vehicle I am not worried about comfort or the number of seats. I don't really care about the look of the vehicle either. If it does what I need it to do I will be happy.

Tires - I was going to put winters on it during that season. Most stock tires are not really that great anyways and it is better in Canada to go with a summer/performace tire and a set of winters. I was looking on the element group forum and some have put more all around mud/snow/off road kind of tires on it. Gone a little beefier and can run those year round - anyone here who has an element tried that?



mmmm said:


> I have owned an Element for a little over a year.
> 
> *Cons*
> 
> ...


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## EnduroDoug (Apr 23, 2005)

I put a nice set of Hankook winter snow tires on two winters ago and haven't taken them off. No problem on dirt roads, no problem in the rain, or on gravel roads either. Awesome tires. They might wear down faster since they're not really meant for summer riding, but I don't care. It's easier to replace these tires a little sooner than it is to have to switch tires 2x a year.


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## mtbAndy (Jun 7, 2004)

I've had an Element for a little more than a year and have been very pleased with it. I regularly carry 2 bikes and gear. I also work in IT so occasionally I have to carry items like you describe too. It has plenty of room for servers, workstations, washer, dryers, grills, or whatever you need to carry. Since it's just me and my girlfriend (no kids, just cats) I don't need the rear seats so they stay at home most of the time. That makes it a little more roomy for weekend trips. For trips where 4 people are going I'll use a hitch rack. I average 24-25mpg and do a lot of mountain driving. We don't get much snow but we did get 6" last year and I had no problem. This year we got about 4-5" and once again I had no problem. I've heard the complaints about stock tires but I bought my E used and the tires had already been replaced. I like no carpet inside so I can load muddy bikes and not worry about damage.


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## ChromedToast (Sep 19, 2006)

I know its been a few days, but I thought I would chime in again. An element is good for regular mountain bikes and road bikes, but getting my downhill bike or freeride bike inside was a big pain. A honda oddyssey has more storage room behind the second row of seats than an element has behind the front row. The cargo area is taller, longer and wider. I love being able to just slide in sheets of plywood and sheetrock. At realistic highway cruising speeds (85-90 mph) the element would get real squirrily and feel like it was about to take off.


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## hiker chick (Apr 19, 2006)

The best place to look for information is the forum at www.elementownersclub.com

There's a section on biking/hiking/camping. Lots of bikers, dog owners and outdoor enthusiasts have been drawn to the Element's utility. I've had an Element since October '04. Love it. Great in snow, especially after switching out the tires (have Michelin Cross Terrain SUV on mine). Here's a couple pics.

I have a Sportworks T1 hitch (2") rack on it. In this pic there are two scooters on it (my Samoyed pulls). I have three Mt bikes, not pictured here. When transporting all three bikes, two go on the rack and I fold up one of the back seats and the third bikes fits in easily -- fully assembled. The back seats come out altogether, quite easily and really opens up the space.

I love the Element, far more than I imagined I would after going to it after 14 years of Miatas (the most recent having a 4-point roll bar, 6-point Willans harnesses and sticky Toyo TS-1 tires). It's beauty is in its functionality. For outdoor enthusiasts and dog owners, it's great not having carpet. It seems cavernous inside but the Accord is 21" longer. A great urban vehicle, easy to park.

It does not feel underpowered and I'm a fairly aggressive driver. It's surprisingly agile. Easily cruises 85mph on the Interstate -- filled to the gills with camping gear and bikes. Mine's the top-level EX and it cost $19,200 brand new. A great vehicle for a reasonable price. Wish the gas mileage were better but I thought the Miata's should be better, too, and it's better than other SUVs I was looking at (such as the X-terra).

Road noise is relative. Compared to my convertibles, the Element is a quiet relief.

Few cars are gorgeous. Most are boring, at best. The Element's aesthetics were not the draw for me but the nonconformity of it was appealing and I like the look now. Am perfectly content with it.

Good luck with your search.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

Thanks for all the info - I am pretty sure I am going to buying one in the next couple months. Just waiting for another lease to come up and have to sell my prelude. I drove it and liked how it drives. For me it fits what I need it to do and there is not much else on the market that does it. I plan to swap the tires out to some A/T heavier duty ones. They will be a little louder but i don't want to be swapping to snow tires in the winter. I will be going for the EX - personally I wish you could still get it with the unpainted panels but the EX models come painted. From what I read it is pretty simple to swap out the panels if I want that. Thanks for the site - thats where I have been doing all my research.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*I would agree with that...*



29Colossus said:


> :lol:
> 
> I really did laugh at that.
> 
> ...


I think its pretty badass. It says:

'I don't give a rats ass about how ugly you think I am. I'm not vain like that. Eat Me, I'm hauling stuff and using 1/3 the gas of your Cadilac Poseur SUV that you paid three times as much for. I'd rather spend the dough on bike gear and my house instead of setting fire to it on the stupidest investment on the planet'

I think that about sums it up.

If I were to consider a truck that size, I think the Element would be the one. At the current state of things in this world, I feel guilty enough getting only 30 MPG in my paid-for 9 year old, 192k mile GTi that runs like a top. I can deal with gutless as long as it isn't too gutless and holds a turn.

My bro-inlaw has one and loves it. He's in LA, tho, so it never sees dirt. It just sees their two kids and kid gear. he gets sub 20 MPG, but he drives in a lot of stop and go traffic.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

I think it can look good. The stock tires are too small. Throw on some beefy tires and look how different it looks. The are mud tires but you could get a All Terrain tire that looks just as beefy. Looks are second to me. If it does what I need and looks good then all the better. Besides some people like the way a huge SUV looks and I think they are ugly. Different strokes.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

Thanks for all those who posted it really helped in my decision. I took the element out for the test drive and looked at what else was in the market and decided it was the car for me. I could find nothing else that has features quite like it. Went for the AWD EX. I wanted the unpainted panels but in Canada you can't get the LX model in AWD. First thing to do is replace the tires before winter rolls around - probably going to go with some All Terrain type tires which will make it looks something like the above post. Just waiting to see if they can find me a manual which seem to be in short supply.


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## EnduroDoug (Apr 23, 2005)

Congrats! You're going to be happy with it. Good choice!

I'll be loading mine with bikes and kayaks and two weeks worth of camping equip for a road trip to Utah next week. I'll be sure to post pics of my happy roving toy chest.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

Well thanks again for all the opinions - picked up my 2007 EX AWD Element today. Can't wait to get it dirty. First things i did when I got home was remove the dealer plate holders and put on my first mod (sticker). Here are some pics. (in the garage is the prelude it is replacing - waiting for the person to pick it up and go to it's new home)


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

We test drove an Element before buying a Forester. No dice. I'll take the Subaru any day.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

ryguy79 said:


> We test drove an Element before buying a Forester. No dice. I'll take the Subaru any day.


Well i am glad you are happy with the subaru. The forester didn't really fit what I was looking for and the element did. I assume that opposite is true for you and thats why you bought the subaru. The great thing is there are some many vehicles to choose from you can find something that fits your needs perfectly.


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

kaikara said:


> Well i am glad you are happy with the subaru. The forester didn't really fit what I was looking for and the element did. I assume that opposite is true for you and thats why you bought the subaru. The great thing is there are some many vehicles to choose from you can find something that fits your needs perfectly.


We thought the Element was a good car, but I just couldn't get over all the gray plastic on the exterior. I'm glad they've changed that.


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## Trek950 (Mar 19, 2007)

*Just Purchased an Element*

We just got an element last night. Anyone here transport your bikes inside the element?

On the honda website is shows two bikes in the back with the seats folded up and the bikes standing up with lashings securing them. Anyone here do this?

This vehicle should be great for camping and hopefully it will be good for biking too.


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## rockit (Aug 30, 2006)

*Love my Element!*

kaikara,

I have one that looks just like yours, and my wife and I absolutely love it. We'd get 2 if we could. And on power..... yes it a 4 banger but its the quickest 4 banger I've ever had. I recommend this car to anyone, been in snow, sand, mud, etc and it has never failed me.

Enjoy!! :thumbsup:


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

ryguy79 said:


> We thought the Element was a good car, but I just couldn't get over all the gray plastic on the exterior. I'm glad they've changed that.


I personally like the plastic but only if the car is black. In canada you can only get the AWD with painted panels so I was stuck with that. I like the idea that you don't have to worry about every little nick and scratch and it makes the car more about utility then looks. You could lean a mountain bike up against it and not have to crap yourself about the finish.

This isn't mine but in black with flat black panels I think it looks great. But that is just my opinion.


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## orange_spokes (Aug 29, 2006)

ive had my 2003 element awd for over a year now and my fiance and i have loved it....i average anywhere from 21-26 miles per gallon...but ive also got a roof rack with two bike racks and 4 lights so thats part of it...i also put some bfg all terrains on it...i loved them but she hated them...so i had to take them back...the were extremely loud...but if mama aint happy aint nobody happy...so now we have yokohama geolander hts on there...they have been great..theyre silent and they handle great in light mud and rain...just my .02 cents...:thumbsup:


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

orange_spokes said:


> ive had my 2003 element awd for over a year now and my fiance and i have loved it....i average anywhere from 21-26 miles per gallon...but ive also got a roof rack with two bike racks and 4 lights so thats part of it...i also put some bfg all terrains on it...i loved them but she hated them...so i had to take them back...the were extremely loud...but if mama aint happy aint nobody happy...so now we have yokohama geolander hts on there...they have been great..theyre silent and they handle great in light mud and rain...just my .02 cents...:thumbsup:


Just how loud compared to stock are the BFG AT KO's? My brother has them on his truck and I don't find them that bad. I like the more agressive look and would like something that I can run year round and those were the ones I was thinking about getting. The ratings on Tire Rack are favourable for volume produced. How long did you run them before you took them off?


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Get your butt over to Elementownersclub.com.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

TCW said:


> Get your butt over to Elementownersclub.com.


I am already over there - posted up about my new E and asked about the noise from the BFG AT KO's


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

kaikara said:


> I am already over there - posted up about my new E and asked about the noise from the BFG AT KO's


Kewl.....


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

Bit the bullet and put the BFG AT KOs on it. They are louder but nothing crazy. Plus the ride is way better then stock.


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

What size are those? That looks pretty cool and I know they're great tires. I wonder if they make BFG ATs that will fit our Forester.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

The forester has 16 and a 17 depending on model. 215 55 17 and 215 60 16. The smallest you can get the BFG AT KO's in is 215 70 16. They may work if you have the 16 inch rims on your car. The tire will be taller with the 70. Normally, a forum about your car is the best place to find info. Usually people have tried different sizes and you can find out what is best for your vehicle.

The size I put on the element was 225 70 16. 215 70 16 is the stock size so they are wider and slightly taller then stock. They fit no problem and some people are running up to 235's on their element.

here is BFG's site with the sizes for the AT KO's

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/specs/all-terrain-t-a-ko/44.html


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

Thanks, I'm going to look into it. They look good on your element. Makes it look at lot tougher.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

ryguy79 said:


> Thanks, I'm going to look into it. They look good on your element. Makes it look at lot tougher.


Yeah they are probably overkill but I got partly for the looks, partly for crappy roads and winter conditions. It is amazing how just tires can change the whole look of a vehilce.

Just remember they are quite a bit louder then stock all seasons. They are also heavier being a truck rated tire. So your off the line performance might suffer and you will get a growl from them when you are driving.


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

kaikara said:


> The forester has 16 and a 17 depending on model. 215 55 17 and 215 60 16. The smallest you can get the BFG AT KO's in is 215 70 16. They may work if you have the 16 inch rims on your car. The tire will be taller with the 70. Normally, a forum about your car is the best place to find info. Usually people have tried different sizes and you can find out what is best for your vehicle.
> 
> The size I put on the element was 225 70 16. 215 70 16 is the stock size so they are wider and slightly taller then stock. They fit no problem and some people are running up to 235's on their element.
> 
> ...


Just checked on Tire Rack and it seems the 215/70/16s might work. It says the factory size on our Forester is 215/60/16. Outside diameter is 28" on the BFGs, and on our stock Yokohamas its 26.2. I think a 1.8 inch OD difference shouldn't be a problem to fit in the wheelwells, it'll throw the speedo off a bit and make the gearing effectively taller by a slight amount, but I'm going to find some Subaru forums to see what sizes people are running on Foresters. Thanks for the great idea. I wouldn't have thought of putting what I consider "truck" tires on our little Forester if I hadn't seen your Element on ATs.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

ryguy79 said:


> Just checked on Tire Rack and it seems the 215/70/16s might work. It says the factory size on our Forester is 215/60/16. Outside diameter is 28" on the BFGs, and on our stock Yokohamas its 26.2. I think a 1.8 inch OD difference shouldn't be a problem to fit in the wheelwells, it'll throw the speedo off a bit and make the gearing effectively taller by a slight amount, but I'm going to find some Subaru forums to see what sizes people are running on Foresters. Thanks for the great idea. I wouldn't have thought of putting what I consider "truck" tires on our little Forester if I hadn't seen your Element on ATs.


Just remember you are getting the look and better all around tires but there is the downside. They are going to be louder than stock and the ride quality is going to be harsher. Personally, I like it and the noise doesn't bother me. If they break in and get a little quieter I will be happy though. The wife on the other hand doesn't really like the noise. I am going to keep the old ones and run these for the summer and if she doesn't get happy with them I might pull them off and make them my winters. Gotta keep the boss happy.


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

kaikara said:


> Just remember you are getting the look and better all around tires but there is the downside. They are going to be louder than stock and the ride quality is going to be harsher. Personally, I like it and the noise doesn't bother me. If they break in and get a little quieter I will be happy though. The wife on the other hand doesn't really like the noise. I am going to keep the old ones and run these for the summer and if she doesn't get happy with them I might pull them off and make them my winters. Gotta keep the boss happy.


Yeah its my girlfriend's daily driver so I gotta convince her they're the way to go, but we use her car a lot for camping trips, sometimes somewhat remote so tougher tires would be nice sometimes. Some of the trails we've been on with the forester had me worried for the sidewalls on the cheesy factory yokos. And I don't mind the noise and rough ride. I used to drive a Ranger with the off road package and mud terrains. That was rough and way noisy.


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## Petey (May 6, 2007)

Element owner here, I love my element personally. Holds a toolbox, my bikes, and a kid or 2, and can still accommodate my stereo system. Not sure that i'd trade my element for a thing. Oh and who doesnt love a tailgate after a ride?


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## Twisted Trail (Oct 13, 2006)

*03 Element owner*

I have owned an Element since the first year they came out. I wondered why people would buy something so ugly....then I researched it and test drove it. The Look grew on me.  Especially when I found out how inexpensive it was to get Honda reliability in a TRUE Utility vehicle.

I don't get the "its gutless" slam by people that don't drive one. I wonder about this as I wait impatiently to zing around those other cars headed up to the mountains, especially the Subarus that for some reason seem to be the lead car in about 70% (or more) of the "Rolling Road blocks" doing 50-55mph on the freeway....often presumptuously in the fast lane. 
Of course you have to know how to kick it into V-tec mode when you want that power for whatever reason, otherwise it does indeed just mosey along sipping the gas until you need to put the hammer down. And I drive an automatic. From what I hear the stick is even zingier. I like the automatic for my commute in heavy traffic and when I mess myself up like my torn up shoulder at the moment....No way I could be shifting a car right now.

The stock tires do suk on the Element. I went with the Nokian WR SUV tires which are AMAZING all weather tires and behave nicely in normal driving too, and wear well. Not quite as aggressive LOOKING as some tires but I have done a couple of trips deep into canada in winter, crusing by the spun out and flipped over Locals on some really scarey roads, and the AWD Element with Nokian WR's is amazing.(see photo of tires)

I just recently upgraded to a 5.25 inch travel bike and its the first one of a number of bikes I have carried that doesn't just wheel in through the back hatch due to the upswept bars not clearing the hatch. (NOT the bike in the photo) BUT, someone mentioned the trick of just opening the side doors, sliding the passenger seat forward and then the bike(s) rolls neatly into the same spot you see the bike in the photo. Then slide the seat back and you still have seating for 3 people with both wheels still on your Big Hit bike. I have not tested it for the maximum limit of travel you can fit in that way without even taking the front wheel off.

Its my favorite and most fun car I have EVER owned and after 3 years I STILL am jazzed up over the Element. Tons more room that the Subarus too, although the Subbies are a good car on its own....and more expensive than an Element. But to each his own.

It has an amazingly short turning radius and SUFFICIENT clearance for backroading in my Western WA stomping ground. I figure if my Element is stopped by the road condition I should be riding anyway.:thumbsup:

it works for ME.
YMMV


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

Well I have had the element for 2-3 weeks now. I have replaced the tires and tinted the front windows. Getting the hitch installed this week and then getting a bike rack too. The more i use the car the more i like it. It is so practical. As for the power issue - I thought I would miss the horsepower coming from a prelude but you really don't notice it. It has plenty of power even fully loaded down. I wouldn't want to be towing something heavy but that isn't what it is built for anyways. But is has plenty of power for passing and normal stuff. Gas milegae on the second tank was right where I thought it would be - got about 450km on it before the light came on with 50/50 mixed highway and city. Still breaking in so it should get better. Getting about the same mileage as the prelude but I don't have to put premium in the E so I am coming out better. 

Did my first mini rode trip to go biking. Took one of the seats out. threw two bikes and the gear in the back and went. As someone said before their is nothing like a tailgate to sit on when you finish riding or take a break.


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## Twisted Trail (Oct 13, 2006)

kaikara said:


> .......... Gas milegae on the second tank was right where I thought it would be - got about 450km on it before the light came on with 50/50 mixed highway and city. Still breaking in so it should get better. .....
> 
> .......As someone said before their is nothing like a tailgate to sit on when you finish riding or take a break.


Don't use the "low fuel" light to judge your gas mileage. It can come on with anywhere from 3 to 5 gallons left in the tank, and that can vary. Better to fill it to the pump auto-stopping at a gas station, set one of the trip odometers, then check your mileage when you fill it at the same pump auto-stopping the next time. The Element actually does better on long trips. Running it on short cold hops in the city, like any car, will come up with surprisingly low mileage due to it running on choke most of the time.

The tail gate rocks! Nicer height than my previous 4WD Nissan truck. And the Hatch is a feature in itself, making a nice rain shelter for ride prep or waiting around for others (here in the soggy Northwest) or a nice bit of shade as you relax on the tailgate after a ride.


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## SurfsUpChuck (Apr 8, 2007)

I've had an Element for a little over 2 years. AWD EX. I get about 25 MPG. I ditched the Wrangler HP's on day 6 and got a set of Michelin LTX M/S. I had them on a full size Bronco for a few years and liked them. They made all the difference in the handling of the Element. www.elementownersclub.com really helped out when I was researching a couple years ago. Good website

I drive it up in the Sierra and in the local hills here and although its no V-8, it does pretty good and handles nice. I have the 5 speed manual. Its fun to drive. Great stock stereo that plays MP3. Put like 8 CD's worth of MP3's on one CD and your good to go for HOURS...

I fit a XL size Cannondale in without lowering anything although but do have to lean it at a 45 degree angle to get it in before standing it up.

It fits a 9 foot board bag. I heard it could fit a 10 foot board but the only way I see is if you put the nose or tail up on dash. I dig the car.

No problems and its got about 30K on it now. The seats are no problem for me. Good utilitarian car that can take a sloppy burrito, sandy wetsuit, changing room before/after snowboarding, biking, etc..


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

SurfsUpChuck said:


> I've had an Element for a little over 2 years. AWD EX. I get about 25 MPG. I ditched the Wrangler HP's on day 6 and got a set of Michelin LTX M/S. I had them on a full size Bronco for a few years and liked them. They made all the difference in the handling of the Element. www.elementownersclub.com really helped out when I was researching a couple years ago. Good website
> .


 Lousy website frequented by a bunch of brain washed Honda lovers, you sound like a typical one. Theres nothing wrong with the wrangler HP. The Element is good for bikes and cargo, gets good gas mileage if you stick to 2WD only, that pt 4wd drive Honda makes is absolute useless garbage, and buy a manual transmission. the auto is as slow as a goat and gets terrible gas mileage.
Could honda improve it.... yes it would be a lot more reliable if they let Toyota build itt:thumbsup:


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

SCC said:


> Lousy website frequented by a bunch of brain washed Honda lovers, you sound like a typical one. Theres nothing wrong with the wrangler HP. The Element is good for bikes and cargo, gets good gas mileage if you stick to 2WD only, that pt 4wd drive Honda makes is absolute useless garbage, and buy a manual transmission. the auto is as slow as a goat and gets terrible gas mileage.
> Could honda improve it.... yes it would be a lot more reliable if they let Toyota build itt:thumbsup:


You seem to know absolutely nothing about the element. So I will help you out with some useful information. The Wranglers are crappy tires period. I wouldn't trust my kid in the car with them on through a canadian winter. The first time I was in the rain with those pieces of crap I lost traction in a curve. I took them off with 400km and put some real tires on the car. If you don't think i am right check out the ratings on tire rack

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Wrangler+HP+All+Weather

The auto actually gets better gas mileage than the manual. This is even more true for the 2007 which now has a 5 speed auto trans. The problem with the mileage is the highway. Being a box on wheels doesn't help and the gearing is all wrong. The 5 speed auto helps to resolve this with better gearing for highway speeds. The manual really needs to be a 6 speed.

There is only minor differences between the AWD and FWD model where milegae is concerned. The AWD system only kicks in when the front tires spin so it is not active most of the time. It will make very little difference in overall mileage. The AWD system in not a full 4WD system by any means but for people that drive in adverse conditions it is something to consider.

Slow? well acceleration times are always going to be better on the manual. But i wouldn't call the box on wheels that is the element quick anyways. I got the manual cause i like to drive manual but the auto trans is good if you are looking at a 2007 model.

Accusing someone of being a honda fanboy and then you turn out to be a toyota fanboy is pretty stupid. Last I heard Honda is pretty good when it comes to realibility  . Not that toyota doesn't make good cars - but they just don't have something that compares to the element.

Thanks for trying though next time try to get your info at least partially right cause it just makes you look like you are talking out of your ass.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Uh...the '07 Elements with the 5-speed automatic gets better gas mileage than the manuals. So Honda has improved it.

Oops, kaikara beat me to it.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

TCW said:


> Uh...the '07 Elements with the 5-speed automatic gets better gas mileage than the manuals. So Honda has improved it.
> 
> Oops, kaikara beat me to it.


Yeah one minute before you...... we will call it a tie :thumbsup: . From my understanding the 03-06 autos and manuals got pretty close to the same mileage. It really comes down to how you drive your car. If you do a lot of city driving you are going to have poor mileage anyways and the 5 speed auto isn't going to make that much of a difference. But highway is the killer. I have had my E for two months now and only have two complaints - the stock tires and the 5 speed MT really needing to be a 6 speed for highway use.


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

kaikara said:


> You seem to know absolutely nothing about the element. So I will help you out with some useful information. The Wranglers are crappy tires period. I wouldn't trust my kid in the car with them on them through a canadian winter. The first time I was in the rain with those pieces of crap I lost traction in a curve. I took them off with 400km and put some real tires on the car. If you don't think i am right check out the ratings on tire rack
> 
> http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Wrangler+HP+All+Weather
> 
> ...


I know nothing about a vehicle I've had for 2 years? you just got yours give it 6 months when it starts falling apart!
I drive for a living and I live in Calgary , If you knew how to drive you would realize its the driver not the tires

I average 30 in the city and recently got almost 37 driving around the friggin Kananaskis when you beat that let me know!

Awd from Honda is useless. its extra weight and thats why you get crappy gas mileage. As for mileage ratings AT over Mt that is the biggest bunch of BS ever listed by any car company!

I have a Toyota and a Honda the honda rates worse than my old Dodge Dakota for reliability!

NOW WHOS TALKING OUT OF THEIR ASS! How come your not in Vegas with the rest of the Fat**s EOCers

Now who looks like the uninformed idiot 30 and 37 are IMP gallons for all you smart A EOC ers or 25 and 31 in US gallons


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

kaikara, Don't think I've mentioned it yet but congrats on the E and your BFGs really make it look cool. The stock tires on my SC are pretty crappy too. They're sporty and grip well in tight turns but they rate fairly low in other catagories like road noise and wear. I'll probably put on 235/55-18s when it's time to replace 'em. 

Speaking of gas mileage the wife and I just spent two weeks in the Rockies. The worst gas mileage we got was about 25 mpg, the best was just over 30 mpg. The over 30 came while we were driving around the Jackson WY region, where the speed limit is really slow - 45 MPH in the Tetons and Yellowstone.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

SCC said:


> I know nothing about a vehicle I've had for 2 years? you just got yours give it 6 months when it starts falling apart!
> I drive for a living and I live in Calgary , If you knew how to drive you would realise its the driver not the tires
> 
> I average 25 in the city and recently got almost 31 driving around the friggin Kananaskis when you beat that let me know!
> ...


So you like the tires - and everyone on tirerack and just about everyone on the element boards think they are ****. Yeah it has to be that we are all shitty drivers. Just face it the Wranglers are crappy tires and there are way better alternatives out there.

Everyone's mileage is going to different. It depends on how you drive and what kind of driving you do.. The 07 5 speed AT is listed as getting better gas mileage and if you look at the gearing it will have lower RPM's on the highway at crusing speed. Lower RPMs = better gas mileage. Go check out the element forums for mileage threads and see how the AT are doing.

The AWD MT E is only 120 pounds more than the FWD. do you think 120 pounds is really going to affect gas mileage that much? The MPG difference will happen when the system is in use - it isn't caused by the tiny increase in weight. If it does you are talking about fractions that are meaningless to overall mileage. I know guys that are 120 pounds more then me - are they driving around getting 3-4 MPG less in the same vehicle?

As for your car falling apart - maybe you got a lemon, maybe you don't maintain properly, who knows. If it is that bad I would be selling it and getting another vehicle instead of *****ing about it before the bumper to bumper warranty is up. WOuldn't be very smart to keep a car that is "falling apart". Honda and Toyota have some of the best realibilty in the business. Every Honda I have had has been a fantastic car and I expect no less from the Element.

Vegas isn't my kind of town and besides my ass is anything but fat so i guess i wouldn't fit in.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

TCW said:


> kaikara, Don't think I've mentioned it yet but congrats on the E and your BFGs really make it look cool. The stock tires on my SC are pretty crappy too. They're sporty and grip well in tight turns but they rate fairly low in other catagories like road noise and wear. I'll probably put on 235/55-18s when it's time to replace 'em.
> 
> Speaking of gas mileage the wife and I just spent two weeks in the Rockies. The worst gas mileage we got was about 25 mpg, the best was just over 30 mpg. The over 30 came while we were driving around the Jackson WY region, where the speed limit is really slow - 45 MPH in the Tetons and Yellowstone.


Yeah they are louder than stock but they are worth it. Totally change the look of the vehicle and it handles way better. Normally I wouldn't be saying this in summer but I am actually looking forward to the first big snowfall to take the BFG's out in in.

Gas mileage is dependent on so many things so it is so hard to compare to what others are getting. I have been getting about 24MPG combines 60/40 highway city. I only have about 2200km on my E so I expect it to go up over time. I still wish it had a 6th gear for crusing on the highway though.


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

kaikara said:


> So you like the tires - and everyone on tirerack and just about everyone on the element boards think they are ****. Yeah it has to be that we are all shitty drivers. Just face it the Wranglers are crappy tires and there are way better alternatives out there.
> 
> Everyone's mileage is going to different. It depends on how you drive and what kind of driving you do.. The 07 5 speed AT is listed as getting better gas mileage and if you look at the gearing it will have lower RPM's on the highway at crusing speed. Lower RPMs = better gas mileage. Go check out the element forums for mileage threads and see how the AT are doing.
> 
> ...


Your right everyone on the EOC can't drive. 
I have checked out the mileage threads, have you? Check the one about posting your best mileage. Funny the high ones are posted by the MT drivers.The better the driver the higher the mileage.
I did edit my post to show Imp gallons 30 and 37
My vehicle is maintained 100% thats because I keep it away from the Honda dealerships.
They have trouble figuring out why your brakes don't work properly!

This is my 1st Honda and my last. Getting a lemon is one thing but getting lousy service to rectify the problems is another.If the problems aren't fixed when the warranty is over I will sell it. It should be such an easy sell because Hondas have high resale value based on their reliability. 

One more thing about the EOC... don't say anything bad over there about Honda


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## hiker chick (Apr 19, 2006)

SCC said:


> Your right everyone on the EOC can't drive.
> I have checked out the mileage threads, have you? Check the one about posting your best mileage. Funny the high ones are posted by the MT drivers.The better the driver the higher the mileage.
> I did edit my post to show Imp gallons 30 and 37
> My vehicle is maintained 100% thats because I keep it away from the Honda dealerships.
> ...


I'm no fan of dealerships, either. Honda's or anyone else's -- around here (DC) it seems all the dealerships are owned by just a few people, which may explain the uneven at best and too often crummy service.

I've been visiting the EOC for a couple years and haven't noticed mass zealotry (or any zealotry) for Honda. For the Element, yes. What do you expect in an Element forum? Go to the Corvette forum and call them crap, go to the Jeep forum and call them crap and go to the Toyota FJ Cruiser forum and call them crap -- based on your lone experience with a lemon -- and see the welcome you get.

Maybe you're not always a punk. Couldn't tell that from your posts here.

Good luck selling your Element. Hopefully to someone who is not a punk.

TIRES: every car I've ever owned has performed better with better tires than were on it stock.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

SCC said:


> Your right everyone on the EOC can't drive.
> I have checked out the mileage threads, have you? Check the one about posting your best mileage. Funny the high ones are posted by the MT drivers.The better the driver the higher the mileage.
> I did edit my post to show Imp gallons 30 and 37
> My vehicle is maintained 100% thats because I keep it away from the Honda dealerships.
> ...


Dealerships are not owned by Honda. You get good ones and bad ones. Doesn't matter what make you are talking about. It if funny when people automatically take their experience and expand it out to all of Honda or all Elements. You said that mine will be falling apart when all evidence shows that my experience won't be like that. If you have gotten poor service at a dealership find another. That's what I did with my prelude - the dealrship I bought it from had horrible service - I found another dearship that understood how to take care of clients and that is where I bought my Element.


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

kaikara said:


> Dealerships are not owned by Honda. You get good ones and bad ones. Doesn't matter what make you are talking about. It if funny when people automatically take their experience and expand it out to all of Honda or all Elements. You said that mine will be falling apart when all evidence shows that my experience won't be like that. If you have gotten poor service at a dealership find another. That's what I did with my prelude - the dealrship I bought it from had horrible service - I found another dearship that understood how to take care of clients and that is where I bought my Element.


 Your sure a wealth of information. Sounds like you spend too much time over at the EOC. Your regurgitating all the nonsense that is spoon fed to you over there. I understand how dealerships work, I also understand how Honda Canada works. When problems arise under warranty their supposed to work together to solve them. Not blame each other and try to pass the buck. 
Its seems you have come to the end of your argument because you can't dispute my other points.

Oh, maybe I'll show you another picture of Honda quality. My dad's two tone 07Odyssey.
It's supposed to be one color of silver not two. After receiving it in march, we noticed in April that it was 2 different colors. The dealer and Honda both agreed there was something wrong with the paint. Two months later he is still waiting for word on how they will rectify the situation.I told him told hold your breath and I hope you enjoys two tone silver:thumbsup: More Honda quality and service


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

hiker chick said:


> I've been visiting the EOC for a couple years and haven't noticed mass zealotry (or any zealotry) for Honda. For the Element, yes. What do you expect in an Element forum? Go to the Corvette forum and call them crap, go to the Jeep forum and call them crap and go to the Toyota FJ Cruiser forum and call them crap -- based on your lone experience with a lemon -- and see the welcome you get.
> Maybe you're not always a punk. Couldn't tell that from your posts here.
> .


You must close your eyes when you read the Eoc board! the only lemon from Honda:lol: :lol: :lol: I don't know how many times someone signs on to that board just to complain about problems with their E. What happens, oh look another TROLL! go away blah, blah , blah I wonder how many times that "new member" is banned because of his posts.

Oh and true EOC form you call me a PUNK! Typical EOC crap, you can't pose a decent argument so you revert to name calling:thumbsup: I see most of your posts over there are about your dog and camping equipment. So maybe your reading the wrong sections.

Oh BTW nice dog!


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

SCC said:


> Your sure a wealth of information. Sounds like you spend too much time over at the EOC. Your regurgitating all the nonsense that is spoon fed to you over there. I understand how dealerships work, I also understand how Honda Canada works. When problems arise under warranty their supposed to work together to solve them. Not blame each other and try to pass the buck.
> Its seems you have come to the end of your argument because you can't dispute my other points.
> 
> Oh, maybe I'll show you another picture of Honda quality. My dad's two tone 07Odyssey.
> It's supposed to be one color of silver not two. After receiving it in march, we noticed in April that it was 2 different colors. The dealer and Honda both agreed there was something wrong with the paint. Two months later he is still waiting for word on how they will rectify the situation.I told him told hold your breath and I hope you enjoys two tone silver:thumbsup: More Honda quality and service


Wow you convinced me. I guess Honda's suck for both realibilty and service. I am selling and getting myself a Ford explorer. 

Why should i bother arguing with you. Your opinion is your opinion. Nothing I say is going to change that. If you want to think that your one (or two) incidents mean that Honda sucks and has poor service and realibilty when all evidence is contrary to that then go for it. Besides you choose to ignore some of my points in the earlier post. Like giving actual evidence that the Wranglers suck (you know all those people on the element board and tire racks ratings). Should i take one person's opinion or the opinion of hundreds of people? Which do you think is going to be more accurate? Your experience is just one in hundreds of thousands all evidence from major polls and surveys show that your experince is not the norm.

You can biatch all you want but it is not going to change anything. If the car sucks then sell it. If the service sucks then find another dealer that treats you the way you expect to be treated. Take control of your own experience. You ***** about people being fanboys and shills and you become just as bad but in the opposite direction. Once you get rid of it you can get one of those stickers with Calvin peeing on a Honda symbol to show everyone your distaste for the brand. That'll show them.


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

kaikara said:


> Wow you convinced me. I guess Honda's suck for both realibilty and service. I am selling and getting myself a Ford explorer.
> 
> Why should i bother arguing with you. Your opinion is your opinion. Nothing I say is going to change that. If you want to think that your one (or two) incidents mean that Honda sucks and has poor service and realibilty when all evidence is contrary to that then go for it. Besides you choose to ignore some of my points in the earlier post. Like giving actual evidence that the Wranglers suck (you know all those people on the element board and tire racks ratings). Should i take one person's opinion or the opinion of hundreds of people? Which do you think is going to be more accurate? Your experience is just one in hundreds of thousands all evidence from major polls and surveys show that your experince is not the norm.
> 
> You can biatch all you want but it is not going to change anything. If the car sucks then sell it. If the service sucks then find another dealer that treats you the way you expect to be treated. Take control of your own experience. You ***** about people being fanboys and shills and you become just as bad but in the opposite direction. Once you get rid of it you can get one of those stickers with Calvin peeing on a Honda symbol to show everyone your distaste for the brand. That'll show them.


Looks like your finally coming to your senses Its funny how even on the EOC board some people will admit there really is nothing wrong with the Wranglers and have used them for 40 or 50 thousand miles. Did you ever try adjusting the air pressure in them? (something that really makes a difference on your MTB) 32 and 34 psi as listed on your door frame is bad advice, 36psi is more accurate. Oh I forgot you got rid of yours right away, probably never checked them once. People like Dogbox and Tango had you convinced even before you tried them!

I actually did fill out a JD powers opinion poll, too bad it was only 3 months after i got it, I wish I could have taken it 6 months later. So much for polls .

Have you ever noticed how long the "problems and issue" section is over there, probably a good months worth of reading.!

I am taking "control" of my situation, just because I'm posting on a forum doesn't mean I let Honda get away with selling lemons. So far they have made ZERO profit off this vehicle with all the repairs they have had to do. I will continue to make them bleed until the warranty is over. And you should thank me for complaining. If people don't complain nothing ever changes. I guess you would just put your tail between your legs and run like a scared dog if you were in my situation.


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## Twisted Trail (Oct 13, 2006)

*different strokes for different folks*

I have had an Element since 2003. No problems yet, other than getting rid of the POS stock Wranglers and POS stock windsheild glass which seems to be a current problem on MOST cars.

I drove the Wranglers long enough to get in one mid-winter drive from Seattle to Vernon BC (Silver Star) and I have done that same trip a couple of times with the Nokians. There is NO comparison.

Checking out SCC's profile is very enlightening insight.
To quote SCC:
*"Day job*:
wife makes money I spend it "

I must admit I was suprised that he is not riding a Turner though. 

He has only been posting on this forum since January 2007. Most of his posts have been targeted at Honda bashing, which seems like a silly way to spend your life. The rest have pretty much all been aimed at bashing something.

SCC....Sell the Honda and go get a Toyota from those friendly and ever so helpful and perfect Toyota dealers if hating Honda is going to suck up so much of your life. Of course Toyotas have never had ANY issues. I will only buy Honda or Toyota for about the last decade or two myself in spite occasional issues, since either is WAY ahead of Detroit cars for quality.

Nice preemptive strike at being called a Troll. Even though about all you seem to be doing is trolling the web looking for places to bash Hondas.

Get a Toyota, get a life, move on.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

SCC said:


> Looks like your finally coming to your senses Its funny how even on the EOC board some people will admit there really is nothing wrong with the Wranglers and have used them for 40 or 50 thousand miles. Did you ever try adjusting the air pressure in them? (something that really makes a difference on your MTB) 32 and 34 psi as listed on your door frame is bad advice, 36psi is more accurate. Oh I forgot you got rid of yours right away, probably never checked them once. People like Dogbox and Tango had you convinced even before you tried them!
> 
> I actually did fill out a JD powers opinion poll, too bad it was only 3 months after i got it, I wish I could have taken it 6 months later. So much for polls .
> 
> ...


The wranglers are crap tires. No adjustment in tire pressure was going to make any difference. I had adjusted them from the 32PSI they were delivered as updward though. yes some of the imbeciles that you are talking to actually have a tire pressure gauge and know how to take care of a vehicle. Better to ditch them and get something better. Poor wet traction is poor wet traction. Take a look at the tire rack survey on them if you don't think so. I wouldn't trust them in the snow when the safety of my child is at stake. I trusted my own experience first and then what majority of other people were saying. Lots of people kept them as they either don't know any better or are cheap bastards who are willing to compromise their safety then spend a buck.

Go check out the problems and issues section on any forum there are usually lots of them. Here is something crazy that I have found out - people tend to complain when there is actually something to complain about. You don't often see people coming in and saying they have 100k on their car and only have to do routine stuff.

If you are going to call me a ***** then say it and don't dance around it with the tail between the legs thing. Whats next are you going to whip it out and claim that it is bigger. Or perhaps that your dad can beat up my dad. On that note I am out cause i promised myself I wouldn't play with the trolls anymore.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

Twisted Trail said:


> I have had an Element since 2003. No problems yet, other than getting rid of the POS stock Wranglers and POS stock windsheild glass which seems to be a current problem on MOST cars.
> 
> I drove the Wranglers long enough to get in one mid-winter drive from Seattle to Vernon BC (Silver Star) and I have done that same trip a couple of times with the Nokians. There is NO comparison.


Yeah it is funny - I try and give some evidence that the tires are crap and it gets shot down even though he has no evidence to back up his own claims. I think some people just like to fight regardless of when they are proven to be incorrect in their assumptions. I mean he has resorted to saying that by bumping the tire pressure by 2 PSI it will magically make crap tires great. :madman: Crap tires are crap tires no change in tire pressure is going to make them sticky in wet conditions if they suck in them.

ahhh well. I am done with the trolls. I say that everytime and somehow get mixed back up in it again. Does this forum have an ignore button? :thumbsup:


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## Too Rass Goat (Sep 16, 2005)

We've had an '03 Element AWD since December '03. Fantastic vehicle. I've had 18's on it since I bought it. I run the stock wheels with snow tires in the Winter (and yes, the stock Goodyear's blow on E's) and have had various 245/55/18's and 235/50/18's on the chrome SUmmer wheels over the years. The best I have found to date is a 235/50/18 Continental Contact 4x4. Wear is excellent since they are H rated opposed to Z, quiet and handle beautifully. Check them out if you have an SC. The BFG KDKA's that everyone seems to be running on EOC suck donkey balls unless you live out West where the roads are smooth. Here in the East, I got 6k on 3 different sets and they track like ass after 1/2 tread is gone.


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## hiker chick (Apr 19, 2006)

SCC said:


> Oh BTW nice dog!


That buys a lot of goodwill with me. :thumbsup:

You're not a complete ding dong.

Good luck with Toyota. And be sure to give any prospective buyers of your Element this link so they know what they're in for.


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

Twisted Trail said:


> I
> 
> Checking out SCC's profile is very enlightening insight.
> To quote SCC:
> ...


okay Honu!
You obviously have trouble reading. or is it just the English language

I do own a Toyota as mentioned already.
Putting something in your signature is allowed to be humorous, it doesn't have to be true
A troll? I made posts on MTBR 8 years ago. I even attended a couple of local gatherings.
I just found this thread after 6 months, so its not like I was looking for places to bash Honda. Gee a thread about a vehicle that I own, just because I disagree with the contents of it doesn't mean I'm not allowed to post in it.

Don't get upset about my posts just because my opinion isn't the same as yours. Don't 
feel you have to defend Honda.You paid them for a vehicle not the other way around .

Move on? Can you imagine if everyone bought a lemon and instead of confronting the manufacturer they just dumped and ran?
We would all still be driving crappy cars like the ones built in the 70's and 80's.


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

kaikara said:


> If you are going to call me a ***** then say it and don't dance around it with the tail between the legs thing. Whats next are you going to whip it out and claim that it is bigger. Or perhaps that your dad can beat up my dad. On that note I am out cause i promised myself I wouldn't play with the trolls anymore.


More EOC mentality, it does even warrant a longer response:eekster:


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

QUOTE..Yeah it is funny - I try and give some evidence that the tires are crap and it gets shot down even though he has no evidence to back up his own claims. I think some people just like to fight regardless of when they are proven to be incorrect in their assumptions. I mean he has resorted to saying that by bumping the tire pressure by 2 PSI it will magically make crap tires great. Crap tires are crap tires no change in tire pressure is going to make them sticky in wet conditions if they suck in them. QUOTE

No evidence? Like I said I drive for a living you think I might have an idea about tires and road conditions? We don't plow the roads in Calgary like you do back east we just drive on what ever mother nature throws us.

I guess you've never tried adjusting your bike tires. If your a crappy driver and a crappy rider you wouldn't notice the difference

Hey! maybe your the troll around here, 35 posts about your car, move on go ride your bike or something!


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## shirk (Mar 24, 2004)

SCC said:


> I also understand how Honda Canada works. When problems arise under warranty their supposed to work together to solve them. Not blame each other and try to pass the buck.


Are you sure you "know" how Honda works between dealer, manufacturing and engineering?
Have you worked for any of them? Worked on warranty programs?

I am going to say you really have no clue how things work.

Anyway, I've got an 05 awd AT and it's great. It's got 50,000 kms and I've never had to do more than change the oil and replace a busted rubber exhaust hanger. The shitty stock tires are shot, I've only driven them this long because I am too cheap to replace them. Living on Vancouver I drive up the Sea to Sky highway ALOT to Whistler. It has more than enough power to rock along at 120km up hill with 4 poeple and a ski box on top full of gear. Sure it's no Prius when it comes to mileage, but if you lay off the gas it's not bad.


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

shirk said:


> Are you sure you "know" how Honda works between dealer, manufacturing and engineering?
> Have you worked for any of them? Worked on warranty programs?
> 
> I am going to say you really have no clue how things work.
> ...


Lets see, your vehicles broken its under warranty, dealer diagnosis the problem, fixes the problem, manufacturer pays dealer for repairs, rocket science.
Well then maybe you can let me in on the hidden secrets about dealer and manufacturer relations MR know it all. 

No clue hmmmm!
You got 50000 km out of crappy tires!
I'm happy for ya, you didn't get a lemon. Its funny did you notice I didn't complain about 
power or my gas mileage.


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## Strafer (Jun 7, 2004)

*Long time E owner*

OK, my neutral opinion, I have no brand loyalty.
E is the only Honda I like only for the reason it fits my single MTB/Ski lifestyle.
Mechanically it is no better than other brands, and I even like the stock Wranglers!
I initially drank the EOC Koolaid too, and thought the stock tires had to be replaced ASAP!
After storing the stock Goodyears until my replacement Firestoners wore out, I found them no worse than Destination LE's.
There are some good infos to be had at EOC, but the group mentality there is even worse than MTBR.
BTW MPG gets better with mileage, now up to 25 mpg with AWD 5 speed.


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

Awwww no more responses? The troll was just having fun  :thumbsup:  :eekster:


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## applegreenheckler (Feb 26, 2005)

I had my E up in the Northern most part of Michigan's Upper Peninsula at the end of last month with the stock tires and it handled all the fire roads I drove on. The E is a rock crawler by no means but had just as good of traction as the Sport Trac with a more aggressive tire that it replaced. I will go with a little wider tire when they need to be replaced but not before then.

just posted a youtube video from the trip


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## Trailcarver (Dec 29, 2006)

Element is underpowered. Try a highway merge during your test drive and see. MPG is low considering how weak the engine is. This car is a triumph of marketing, not engineering. Inside is spacious and I like how you can load two bikes in no problem. I like Honda as a brand, but this car sucks.


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## Twisted Trail (Oct 13, 2006)

Trailcarver said:


> Element is underpowered. Try a highway merge during your test drive and see. MPG is low considering how weak the engine is. This car is a triumph of marketing, not engineering. Inside is spacious and I like how you can load two bikes in no problem. I like Honda as a brand, but this car sucks.


My only problem with merging onto the Freeway in my Element is if I get stuck behind a Subaru putting slowly along as they always do. Plenty of power in the Element. 
But then you have to know how to drive. That might be your problem....

And I have an automatic. If you want more snap get the manual transmission.

It would be nice to have a turbo diesel in it for gas mileage, but for a big heavy box it does about as good as can be expected at 22-24mpg with 4WD and auto transmission. If you want better mileage you could always get a Scion XB....


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## EnduroDoug (Apr 23, 2005)

I've been driving an automatic Element for 2 years now and notice no problems whatsoever. No, it's not very powerful, but plenty powerful enough to merge -- even in crazy Seattle area traffic. For that matter, my wife has the Civic Hybrid and we have no problem merging with that either. Of course, we know how to drive. Merging doesn't require you pass every car in lane your merging into. Sometimes, it's okay to let one or two go if they're cruising too fast. After all, it's just highway driving. It's not a race.

If my Element was stolen tomorrow, I'd buy another one tomorrow night.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

Trailcarver said:


> Element is underpowered. Try a highway merge during your test drive and see. MPG is low considering how weak the engine is. This car is a triumph of marketing, not engineering. Inside is spacious and I like how you can load two bikes in no problem. I like Honda as a brand, but this car sucks.


I have a manual transmission and have no problem merging onto highways even with short on ramps. I also test drove the auto and it has plenty of pep too. The element has enough power for what it is designed to do.. Sure it is not quick but it is a box on wheels and not meant to be. I love people who think they need 300HP in order to merge onto a highway.

As for the MPG I agree that it doesn't get the best mileage but it is a cube shape which doesn't help mileage. The Auto transmission rectifies it a bit with a 5 speed in the 2007. You get better highway mileage because of more appropriate gearing. I would love my manual to be a 6 speed - after 5000km that is my only real problem with it. Everything else has been great.

Two bikes? I can get two bikes in with just one seat out - with both seats out you could get 3 easy and probably 4 bikes in the back. After some time with the elementI think you either get the it or you don't - you obviously don't but for many the vehicle serves them well.


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

applegreenheckler said:


> I had my E up in the Northern most part of Michigan's Upper Peninsula at the end of last month with the stock tires and it handled all the fire roads I drove on. The E is a rock crawler by no means but had just as good of traction as the Sport Trac with a more aggressive tire that it replaced. I will go with a little wider tire when they need to be replaced but not before then.
> 
> just posted a youtube video from the trip


Keweenaw peninsula rules. Lived there for 5 years. Loved it.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Does Honda make diesels?*



Twisted Trail said:


> My only problem with merging onto the Freeway in my Element is if I get stuck behind a Subaru putting slowly along as they always do. Plenty of power in the Element.
> But then you have to know how to drive. That might be your problem....
> 
> And I have an automatic. If you want more snap get the manual transmission.
> ...


I know Nissan and Toyota both have diesel cars in other countries, but does Honda?

The power issue doesn't bother me too much. I have not driven an Element, but my bro-inlaw has one. He says basically what you all are saying. It isn't going to win any drag races, but it can get out of its own way.

ATM, I drive a 96 GTi with a 2.0l 4 cyl engine, 115 HP. It has good torque, and plenty of pickup for my uses. I only care about being able to get out of the way, and get on a freeway. Heck, it has way more pick-up than the Chevy Impala I rented last week.

I leared to drive in the 80s before they figured out how to put a bunch of smog stuff on a small motor without choking off all the power. I had an '79 Scirocco with about 80 HP, and 0-60 was over 10 seconds. Even that was fine. Funny thing is the GTi feels way faster, and actually gets better mileage. I guess what I'mn saying is my standarsds are low.


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## Malaca (Jul 7, 2007)

Bought a Honda Element in 2005. End of year clearance, 17 thousand. Automatic, all wheel drive power everything. After two years we still like te vehicle, but I personally would like something with better gas mileage. We live in Michigan, and it handled fine in the snow on stock goodyear tires. The cabin is quite noisy when driving. The space in the car is awesome, flipping the seats up(or out)creates lots of room for bikes, camping gear, dogs..etc. Mechanically, the steering rack blew some kind of seal and was leaking power steering fluid. Our bumper to bumper was through, but our dealer fixed it under warranty anyway. Big plus having a reliable, friendly, customer oriented dealership organization. Oh, and I love the way it looks, too.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

pimpbot said:


> I know Nissan and Toyota both have diesel cars in other countries, but does Honda?


http://world.honda.com/Diesel/

Honda has a whole site on it - great info on their new clean diesel engine that we hopefully will be seeing in North American.


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## Twisted Trail (Oct 13, 2006)

kaikara said:


> http://world.honda.com/Diesel/
> 
> Honda has a whole site on it - great info on their new clean diesel engine that we hopefully will be seeing in North American.


Now THAT would be the ideal engine for the Element! Wonder why they haven't offered it?


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## Earthpig (Jan 23, 2004)

Had my 2003 5spd AWD E since January of '05. Picked it up used with 18K miles for just under $16K. I've owned 15 cars, trucks and SUVs, in the last 20 years (I go through cars often) and this is probably my favorite. It's an incredibly useful vehicle and a bargain to boot that holds its value well (I checked the NADA on mine this morning and it has only lost $1800 in value in 2.5 years!) That said, it does have some flaws and it's not for everyone.

*Things I like: *

1. The utility/cargo space. I love being able to carry my bikes inside. I have roof racks, but never use them unless I'm carting more than one other person with me. I made my own interior fork rack for $15 and 10 minutes of work. My 19" Ventana X-5 with 140mm fork with a thru-axle can fit in, complete, with one of the E's back seats removed. I can't believe how much stuff you can fit in an Element (with one or both rear seats folded up or removed). I've camped in it, and taken it on several multi-day, multi-person bike and snowboard trips, and hauled landscaping rocks, plants, sheetrock, and god knows what else in there. When my young son got carsick and puked in the back, the plastic/rubber floors washed out in a snap. Perhaps the most useful vehicle I can imagine. That said, with both rear seats installed and in use, the cargo capacity isn't too great. Tall, but not very deep. My old Volvo had a MUCH larger cargo volume when both rear seats were in use.

2. The stereo. Nothing like 7 speakers with a dedicated subwoofer and an ipod jack.

3. The reliability: No mechanical problems to speak of in almost 3 years and almost 45K miles I've driven it. (Now has 62,000 miles.) Routine oil changes, the 30K mile service, and new tires is all I've had to put into it.

4. Bang for the buck: I can't believe Honda sells these things new for around $21K. Enormous value. Plus, the hold their residual value well. I bought mine for $15,900 in January '05 and today it's still worth $14K.

*Things I'm ambivalent about (don't really like or dislike, but wish were better): *

1. The gas mileage: I've averaged 22 - 24 mpg in mixed driving since I've owned it. Not bad, but not great. I try not to drive it too hard, and if you baby it, it does get better mileage. I did upsize the tires last year (to 235/70/16's), but it didn't seem to have too much effect on the mileage. That all said, with gas prices over $3 and rising (with $4 and $5 a gallon gas to come soon - ever heard of "peak oil"?) and a 40 mile daily round trip commute (I choose to live close to the trails instead of my office), I'm sick of spending $200 a month for gas. If they would come out with a Diesel or hybrid Element, I'd be all over it.

2. The noise: There is absolutely NO sound dampening anywhere in this vehicle. But, what do you expect from a $21K vehicle new? I've seen mods where people have pulled the panels and added sound dampening, but I'm too lazy to do that. I just turn up the stereo. But, on the 8+ hour road trips to Moab/Fruita, the sound can be annoying.

3. The comfort: Not the most comfortable seats. Not bad for around town driving, but again, on those 8 hour road trips, my back starts to hurt. It's also pretty stiffly sprung. What do you expect for $21K?

4. The performance: Not the quickest vehicle. Around 10 seconds 0-60 with the manual? Hmmm. (The bigger tires didn't help.) Turn on the AC and the power really suffers. However, for a big, tall box, it's actually fairly agile and with the stiff springs, corners relatively well. It's no Porsche, but it isn't a Suburban either.

5. Snow handling: Not bad, but not great. Better with the Bridgestone Dueler Revos I put on. I just don't like how AWD systems perform in snow - give me true 4WD or even FWD on snow.

6. Seating for 4 only: I don't really care about this since I've permanently removed one rear seat for bike hauling, but for a vehicle of its size, it really should have seating for 5. This feature turns off many buyers, especially those with families.

*Thing I don't like*:

The windshield. Could it have any thinner glass? Weak sauce.

As much as I like it, I'm strongly considering replacing it due to the gas mileage. I don't want to move closer to work and before you bike commuting econazis pipe up and tell me to ride my bike to work, I often need to carry larger items (ala bikes) and kids here and there and I'm not really comfortable biking to and from work in the dark, rain and snow we have here in the winters. I really, really wish that Honda would put a hybrid or diesel in the Element that would get 40mpg, but I haven't heard that there are any plans to do that. Looking at the Fit as a replacement.

C'mon, Honda! Don't you know the world is teetering on the brink of a serious fossil fuel crisis? We're all fiddling while Rome is burning, folks...


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

Twisted Trail said:


> Now THAT would be the ideal engine for the Element! Wonder why they haven't offered it?


Well i Think the clean diesel is new. The old diesels were probably not offered because of emission restrictions in North America. The rumour has been that when the element gets it's redesign the diesel will be offered in it. That's if the continue to make it.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

I agree with just about everything you said - I would include as things i would like to see a 6 speed manual and that they fix the front grill. The front opening is very large and the AC condensor is right there to take hits from rocks etc. I did a do it yourself mod to protect it a little more but you think that honda would have addressed this after 5 years on the market.

As it is I don't see this as a vehicle for everyone. If i was commuting every day I would not use it. It doesn't get great mileage and is kinda loud and trucky to be driven as a commuter. As a all purpose hauler it is great though and I don't think there is much else on the market taht compares to it. For us it is a second vehicle and perfect in that role.

I haven't had mine in the snow yet (2007 bought 2 months ago) but the 2007 has vehicle stability control that should help in the snow. I have also put All terrain tires on it which should eat the snow up. Strangely, I am actually looking forward to the first big snowfall this year.



Earthpig said:


> Had my 2003 5spd AWD E since January of '05. Picked it up used with 18K miles for just under $16K. I've owned 15 cars, trucks and SUVs, in the last 20 years (I go through cars often) and this is probably my favorite. It's an incredibly useful vehicle and a bargain to boot that holds its value well (I checked the NADA on mine this morning and it has only lost $1800 in value in 2.5 years!) That said, it does have some flaws and it's not for everyone.
> 
> *Things I like: *
> 
> ...


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## luar (Jul 24, 2007)

I loved the Element and it is the perfect bike hauling vehicle. Last Xmas a friend ask me to look after his E while he went away for a couple of days and so I got a chance to drive it. Great vehicle.

Unfortunately I ended up getting a 2003 CR-V EX. It's more practical when you have a baby. It also has a real sunroof as oppose to that rear one on the E - I never cared for it.

As I work with a major automotive publication, I will only tell you that the E has a different marketing target than the CRV and Pilot. Some of the disadvantages listed earlier were done so as not to overshadow the other two whose profit margin is much higher. Still if we ever become a 2 car family, I would treat myself to the Element.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

luar said:


> I loved the Element and it is the perfect bike hauling vehicle. Last Xmas a friend ask me to look after his E while he went away for a couple of days and so I got a chance to drive it. Great vehicle.
> 
> Unfortunately I ended up getting a 2003 CR-V EX. It's more practical when you have a baby. It also has a real sunroof as oppose to that rear one on the E - I never cared for it.
> 
> As I work with a major automotive publication, I will only tell you that the E has a different marketing target that the CRV and Pilot. Some of the advantages listed earlier were done so as not to overshadow the other two whose profit margin is much higher. Still if we ever become a 2 car family, I would treat myself to the Element.


Yeah i would like the sunroof upfront - doesn't really work for me in the back Your opinion is exactly like mine. The CRV was our second choice. If it was going to be our only car we would have went with the crv. As it is we have a mazda 3 hatch which really is the primary car. It turns out that my wife (and baby) use it most and I use the element for work and biking. It is not for everyone but the E is perfect for our situation.


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## Twisted Trail (Oct 13, 2006)

kaikara said:


> Yeah i would like the sunroof upfront - doesn't really work for me in the back Your opinion is exactly like mine. The CRV was our second choice. If it was going to be our only car we would have went with the crv. As it is we have a mazda 3 hatch which really is the primary car. It turns out that my wife (and baby) use it most and I use the element for work and biking. It is not for everyone but the E is perfect for our situation.


NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! No sunroof in the front! 
I have NO desire to be blasted by the sun while I drive. In fact I was dissapointed that you MUST get a sunroof to get 4WD. But as it turns out, I like how the rear sunroof does a nice job of venting the car and keeps from cooking the saddle of the bike I have in the car parked in the sun daily. I seriously would not have bought the car if I HAD to get a front located sunroof. They could have opaqued the rear sunroof for all I care, and in fact I have gotten a much darker tint on it.

Its true that the Element is not for everyone. But its a good reliable CHEAP Utility vehicle for those that it does match their needs. The new slightly larger than previous model years RAV4 gives it a run for its money IMHO, but the Element is still cheaper.


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## ex2k4 (Sep 12, 2005)

I almost thought about the car. I currently have Accord coupes and I've been wanting biker friendly car. 

I think it's a great car for many different uses. SC is definitely a plus with full body color. I hated the original ones, but the SC looks so much better in AND out. 

I think it's great to have if you want to haul things around, go into the cities, etc etc..
ONLY SC though! 

nay to the ex models.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

ex2k4 said:


> I almost thought about the car. I currently have Accord coupes and I've been wanting biker friendly car.
> 
> I think it's a great car for many different uses. SC is definitely a plus with full body color. I hated the original ones, but the SC looks so much better in AND out.
> 
> ...


Three reasons for me that the SC was a no go. First it has carpet except in the rear cargo area. No point in having a hauler that has carpet. Try putting a dirty mountain bike in there and then cleaning it up. Second it does not come in AWD only FWD. Third I wanted rims and tires that I could run year round in the snow with out switching to winter rims and tires. You could run the all seasons and 17's on the SC in the snow but I wouldn't so I would be stuck swapping tires and rims. With my EX I just put all terrain tires on that I could run year round. That look wouldn't really work with the SC which has more a tuner feel too it.

You can get the EX (the EX-P) model with painted quarters and rear and front. It is not completely body matched like the SC though. The SC also has a different front and other components. As it is the SC is a great city car when you need to occasionally haul stuff. But as a dedicated hauler/work vehicle/bike car the EX made more sense to me.


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## luar (Jul 24, 2007)

kaikara said:


> Three reasons for me that the SC was a no go. First it has carpet except in the rear cargo area. No point in having a hauler that has carpet. Try putting a dirty mountain bike in there and then cleaning it up. Second it does not come in AWD only FWD. Third I wanted rims and tires that I could run year round in the snow with out switching to winter rims and tires. You could run the all seasons and 17's on the SC in the snow but I wouldn't so I would be stuck swapping tires and rims. With my EX I just put all terrain tires on that I could run year round. That look wouldn't really work with the SC which has more a tuner feel too it.


The one thing I noticed and did not care for was the full center console. It really made the front more cramp. I have a CR-V which has the folding table and at first I thought it was weird but I do have to say that I like it. I can keep it close and put my back pack there which is handy.


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## luar (Jul 24, 2007)

Twisted Trail said:


> Now THAT would be the ideal engine for the Element! Wonder why they haven't offered it?


I wish they think about introducing BlueTec.


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

The wife liked the Element, but the seating for only 4 turned us off. It is really loaded with lifestyle marketing features (table in the back, bench seats, suicide doors, etc) that might sell it to some college kids, but I don't see us using those features.

Ended up with a CRV for a song (paid less than private party out the door (ttl included) for a honda certified extended warranty etc). She LOVES it, and it was able to haul us, 2 out of otwn guests and our kiddo in the carseat!

Plus, I have my Frontier for camping/biking/xtreming.


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## reklar (Jan 28, 2004)

Twisted Trail said:


> The new slightly larger than previous model years RAV4 gives it a run for its money IMHO, but the Element is still cheaper.


I considered the RAV, but the rear door hinge location (not a liftgate) is terrible. Additionally, you can't open the back window so hauling longer objects is difficult. And hauling bikes? Racks are the only real option. As a passenger car though it is far superior. Handles better, has more power, nicer interior, better ride, even better gas mileage supposedly. It is also more expensive ... and I already have a passenger vehicle.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the Element, on the plus side:

Bike hauling ... the E is one of the only vehicles other than full on minivans (e.g., Odyssey) that can hold bikes with wheels on inside the vehicle. 58cm road bike? No problem. 20" all mountain bike? No problem. If you are much larger than that, it becomes more difficult sure, but the majority of riders are not ... and you can always remove a wheel.

Cargo room ... I can't think of many items in my house that won't fit in an E ... Dishwasher, Washer/Dryer? No problem. Full size refrigerator? Again, no problem. Couch, Recliner, etc. You get the idea.

Clamshell door ... Makes hauling long items a breeze.

Suicide doors ... Makes loading/unloading bikes and large objects a breeze.

Height off the ground ... Just right. Dogs can hop right in/out without injury. Easy access for seniors too.

Cleanability ... no carpet has advantages for dogs and kids

Parking/size ... the length of the vehicle is about a foot shorter than my gf's 2006 Honda Accord. Parking is a breeze, especially compared to most SUVs.

Seats ... very comfortable. Much moreso than many other cars I've ridden in, even much more expensive. On long trips, this is our car of choice.

Campability ... I can sleep in the vehicle at 6'0", no problem ... plenty of room for two. Very comfy. Many options for that too (w/ or w/o seats, air mattress, futon, etc.).

Easily removable seats ... A 1 minute operation.

Honda ... they make very reliable cars and stand behind their products. They are first and foremost an engine company ... 'nuff said.

Price ... All of that for under $20k even with AWD. Incredible.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the down side:

Road noise ... It is a bit noisy at highway speed, especially on poor roadways (think 580 in the bay area). If you are willing to work a bit, it is possible to cut down on road noise ... check the forums here www.elementownersclub.com/forums for more info.

Gas mileage ... Could be better, but not many SUVs get better mileage. As noted, better gearing could help ... 6 speed AT would be perfect I think. And of course if the modern diesels become available, that would rock.

Slightly Underpowered ... Merging onto freeways is no problem, but I had to revert to 1st to do a shuttle to Packer Saddle in Downieville (for those unaware, the roads are *steep* and at roughly 6-7k feet elevation). And if you need to accelerate quickly often, gas mileage really suffers. Still, I got 20mpg (even with a shuttle to Packer Saddle on that tank) from Downieville back to the bay area. This is w/ the AWD automatic model with 2 riders combining somewhere near 400lbs and full of gear and a big cargo box on top. 

Limited seating ... as noted only 4 of them ... not good for kids. I haul bikes more than kids though currently. 

Stock tires ... As noted above, they are not the best. I've had problems with stock tires on other Hondas as well. Their durability may be okay, but other characteristics (road noise, compliance, etc.) suffer.

Suicide doors ... They are a pain when you have rear passengers. To load/unload them you must:

1) Undo seatbelt. 
2) Open Front Door. 
3) Open rear door.
(load/unload)
4) Close rear door. 
5) Close front door. 
6) Redo seatbelt.

I can see this being more of a pain with young children. Also, I don't like how they "remedied" this with the new model.

Clamshell door height ... I've hit my head a couple times on the clamshell liftgate. I'm 6'0" FWIW.

Slippery Floor ... It could be more grippy. Dogs don't like it b/c it's too slick and cargo slides around on the stock floor. This is remedied with a blanket for the dogs and/or removable carpet for the interior. Plenty of aftermarket vendors on the elementownersclub forum.

Interior plastic ... scratches easily.

Honda glass ... Honda is known for having relatively weak, easily scratchable glass.

Nitpick: Stock stereo sounds good but is a pain to change channels. I have a bum right shoulder and XM radio. There are a lot of XM channels and only 12 presets ... for some reason you can't just seek from the steering wheel, you can only use the presets. Changing the channels from the nob is a long reach and inconvenient even with a good shoulder.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bottom line: If I had kids, I would consider an Odyssey (or one of the other minivans). As is, for road trips, biking and dogs, this is the perfect vehicle ... especially for the money. I find myself much more willing to haul bikes since it is so quick to load and unload them and there is less wear and tear on the bikes.

This is MTBR, right? BIke hauling is a major consideration at least for me. With a roof rack and hitch rack you could haul a *lot* of bikes ... four inside w/ two passengers, plus say four on top (conservatively) and four on the hitch rack. Or four passengers with four bikes and plenty of gear. Or three passengers with three bikes inside, etc. Many possibilities.


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## reklar (Jan 28, 2004)

CharacterZero said:


> Plus, I have my Frontier for camping/biking/xtreming.


What do you do with your bikes when you are in town? Theft would be a problem I think. With the E, the windows are dark and I don't worry about theft much at all. If I wanted to, I could block off the windows very easily with reflectix anyway.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

reklar said:


> I
> 
> Suicide doors ... They are a pain when you have rear passengers. To load/unload them you must:
> 
> ...


for those that don't know they put the seatbelt right into the top of the seat for 2007. you still have to open the front door to open the rear. I like where the seatbelt is in my 2007 but some taller people might not. I am 5'8" so the seatbelt fits me and the wife fine. With young children you would always be getting out to help them out anyways. It would be more for the older rear passengers that it is annoying.

Thanks for all of the indepth info though. Great post for a some interested in the element. Like i have said before if the element fits what you need it to do it is a great vehicle but it does have it's downsides.


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## Strafer (Jun 7, 2004)

Highly versatile interior just for mountain biking (and ski/snowboarding).


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## Twisted Trail (Oct 13, 2006)

*no subby converts PLEASE.*

I have noticed an interesting trend, since I hike AND mtn bike.
Hikers absolutely snub and HATE the Element, even without ever seeing it or checking it out closely or test driving it. They are all about being snobby about their Subarus, which they drive at least 10mph under the speed limit, and block people from passing, for reasons I can never figure out.
I RARELY see any Elements, other than mine at the "hiker only" trailheads.

Mtn bikers seem to be embracing the practicality and value (i.e. its CHEAP and reliable) of the Element and at mtn biking trailheads, I seem to be seeing more and more Elements.

I have finally decided that I really do NOT want the Slow Obnoxious snobby Hiker Subby owner to switch to Elements. I would rather not associate with that type of people. :thumbsup:


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

kaikara said:


> for those that don't know they put the seatbelt right into the top of the seat for 2007. you still have to open the front door to open the rear. I like where the seatbelt is in my 2007 but some taller people might not. I am 5'8" so the seatbelt fits me and the wife fine. With young children you would always be getting out to help them out anyways. It would be more for the older rear passengers that it is annoying.
> 
> Thanks for all of the indepth info though. Great post for a some interested in the element. Like i have said before if the element fits what you need it to do it is a great vehicle but it does have it's downsides.


More Element SPAM from the EOC:thumbsup:Ya TROLL!


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

Trailcarver said:


> . This car is a triumph of marketing, not engineering. Inside is spacious and I like how you can load two bikes in no problem. I like Honda as a brand, but this car sucks.


A triumph of MARKETING:eekster: :lol: :lol: :lol: Thats why its on its death bed probably won't see a 09 model. Sales have been dismal and falling .


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## hiker chick (Apr 19, 2006)

Twisted Trail said:


> I have noticed an interesting trend, since I hike AND mtn bike.
> Hikers absolutely snub and HATE the Element, even without ever seeing it or checking it out closely or test driving it. They are all about being snobby about their Subarus, which they drive at least 10mph under the speed limit, and block people from passing, for reasons I can never figure out.
> I RARELY see any Elements, other than mine at the "hiker only" trailheads.


Subarus have been around decades longer than Elements so I'd expect to see a lot more of the former than the latter. I've been to many trailheads back east and in the northwest and haven't heard of mass Element antipathy among Subaru owners or hikers.

Have observed a lot of Subarus with bikes on the back and kayaks on top so I tend to feel a kinship with Subaru owners for driving a smart, versatile, outdoorsy vehicle.

Subaru drivers (like Volvo drivers), generally, do seem slow. Maybe they're too practical to speed. Some sociologist should study the *SLOWWWWW SUBARU *phenomenon. One glaring exception might be the WRX owners.


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## hiker chick (Apr 19, 2006)

SCC said:


> A triumph of MARKETING:eekster: :lol: :lol: :lol: Thats why its on its death bed probably won't see a 09 model. Sales have been dismal and falling .


Since its debut, the Element has hardly been marketed, at all.

Save for those silly cartoon strips in _Outside_ and _Backpacker_ magazines, where have you seen the Element marketed in print?

When have you ever seen an Element-only television ad?

When have you ever heard an Element radio ad?

Even in Honda's occasional television ads that cover their entire product line, the Element is not prominent.

The Honda Element's main competition seems to be the Honda CRV. Perhaps that's a good thing for Honda. Perhaps not.

And how do you know there is unlikely to be an '09 Element?


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## Twisted Trail (Oct 13, 2006)

hiker chick said:


> Subarus have been around decades longer than Elements so I'd expect to see a lot more of the former than the latter. I've been to many trailheads back east and in the northwest and haven't heard of mass Element antipathy among Subaru owners or hikers.
> 
> Have observed a lot of Subarus with bikes on the back and kayaks on top so I tend to feel a kinship with Subaru owners for driving a smart, versatile, outdoorsy vehicle.
> 
> Subaru drivers (like Volvo drivers), generally, do seem slow. Maybe they're too practical to speed. Some sociologist should study the *SLOWWWWW SUBARU *phenomenon. One glaring exception might be the WRX owners.


Just try mentioning the Element in a hiker forum, such as nwhikers.net during a discussion of trailhead cars. I was shocked by how much of an attack that can elicit. Thats what got me noticing the dirth of Elements, at least in the Northwest at hiker only locations.

I have no problem with Subarus, a nice car, although they are a bit pricey for me, as long as I don't get stuck behind one on a two-lane no-passing road.  About 1 in 50 Subarus will actually be going at reasonable speeds, so I know the CAR has the capability. And I wouldn't even mind the Subaru owner turtle mentality, but for some reason they feel that everyone else should also enjoy their slow paced lifestyle and they will not pull over no matter how long the conga line is behind them. We try to make light of it by laying odds that the blocking car in a line we are stuck in is led by a Subaru. The only problem is its too easy a game....

Everyone needs to find the car thats right for THEIR needs though. No need to buy an Element or even read about them for those that scorn Elements in favor of a nice reliable Ford or something.


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## hiker chick (Apr 19, 2006)

Twisted Trail said:


> Just try mentioning the Element in a hiker forum, such as nwhikers.net


http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7959734&highlight=honda+element

The FJ didn't fare well, either.

http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19250&highlight=honda+element

Naturally, the Element featured prominently in the FUGLY thread.

Looks like typical on-line forum discussions: variety of opinions and generalizations.

Just like here.


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## hiker chick (Apr 19, 2006)

Twisted Trail said:


> the dirth of Elements, at least in the Northwest at hiker only locations.


The Element -- which I adore -- would not be my first choice for getting to Pacific Northwest trailheads. At least not the trailheads I've been to in the past.

I would not take my Element on some of the roads we easily took my hiking buddy's Explorer, my brother's '53 Willy's or '71 Blazer.

But I don't want to scratch my Element, either.

I might be okay with taking someone else's Element on those roads. As P.J. O'Rourke observed:

The Ultimate Off-Road Vehicle is the rental car. Any rental car.


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

hiker chick said:


> Since its debut, the Element has hardly been marketed, at all.
> 
> Save for those silly cartoon strips in _Outside_ and _Backpacker_ magazines, where have you seen the Element marketed in print?
> 
> ...


Even EOC members have their doubts. I think SPDRCR is sniffing glue.
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34043
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35245&highlight=element+doomed


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## Mt.Biker E (Mar 25, 2006)

Last year I was in the market for a new vehicle & seriously gave the Element some thought. Test drove & priced one out. Then I did some home work & found out it had a really crappy side test crash rating because where the doors meet there is no column.

If your looking for a really good winter vehicle Subaru's awd is probably the best. I work with a few ex car guys, some in service & some in sales, so whats its worth they recomended the Outback. 
I ended up going the Hyundai route and getting the Sante Fe. The reviews are all 5 star & its spacey & has many cool features. Plus I get 22-24 mpg for an suv with full time awd. For the winter it has a lock in feature for 4x4 up to 25 mph. 
Plus for the same price point as the Element you get way more vehicle & features.

my 2 cents


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## Twisted Trail (Oct 13, 2006)

Mt.Biker E said:


> Last year I was in the market for a new vehicle & seriously gave the Element some thought. Test drove & priced one out. Then I did some home work & found out it had a really crappy side test crash rating because where the doors meet there is no column.
> 
> If your looking for a really good winter vehicle Subaru's awd is probably the best. I work with a few ex car guys, some in service & some in sales, so whats its worth they recomended the Outback.
> I ended up going the Hyundai route and getting the Sante Fe. The reviews are all 5 star & its spacey & has many cool features. Plus I get 22-24 mpg for an suv with full time awd. For the winter it has a lock in feature for 4x4 up to 25 mph.
> ...


The Element gets a 5 star side crash rating with side air bags. 
I didn't realize that was a "crappy" rating.

Good luck with your Hyundai if you keep if more than 2 years. You will need it. Amazing how much trouble people have with those in spite of the warranties. I know mechanics that refuse to work on those due to the problems with them.


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## reklar (Jan 28, 2004)

Mt.Biker E said:


> Last year I was in the market for a new vehicle & seriously gave the Element some thought. Test drove & priced one out. Then I did some home work & found out it had a really crappy side test crash rating because where the doors meet there is no column.


Well, that is true for the lower end models. They don't have side-impact airbags. Most cars/trucks these days without the side impact airbags get poor ratings on the side-impact test. The EX and higher (I assume the SC as well) have side-impact airbags and received 5 star ratings on the front and side-mpact test. It isn't clear from the report below which model was tested however:

http://www.forbesautos.com/reviews/2006/honda/element/model-update.html

"Consumer Reports says the Element has much better than average reliability. It gets five out of five stars on front and side-impact crash tests conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. But NHTSA notes a safety concern: The head of the crash-test dummy in the left, rear seat struck the upper, side interior structure in the side-impact test. Such head impacts "have a higher likelihood of serious head trauma," according to NHTSA. The 2006 Element was not tested for rollover protection."



I seriously question a test which gives 5 stars to a car and then makes a comment like that. Maybe the point of the test is mainly for the driver and front passenger?


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Do your research, in '07 all Elements come with front, side, and curtain airbags as standard equipment.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

SCC said:


> More Element SPAM from the EOC:thumbsup:Ya TROLL!


Looks like someone has had one too many falls from his bike without a helmet on. If i am a troll i am not a very good one. Do you even know what a troll is?

"In the context of internet culture, an internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who intentionally posts messages about sensitive topics constructed to cause controversy in an online community"

How can a post where I point out that the 07 has been redesigned in order to eliminate a design flaw a troll? I was not insulting to the original poster and in fact praised him for his opinion (both likes and dislikes) of the element. how is that troll like behaviour? You on the other hand have been nothing but a prick from your first post. I think the label of troll more aptly applies to you.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

TCW said:


> Do your research, in '07 all Elements come with front, side, and curtain airbags as standard equipment.


I was going to buy used but this was one of the reasons I went with a 2007. All models come standard with all airbags. If i have my kid in the back I want to make sure that he is protected the best he can be.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

CharacterZero said:


> The wife liked the Element, but the seating for only 4 turned us off. It is really loaded with lifestyle marketing features (table in the back, bench seats, suicide doors, etc) that might sell it to some college kids, but I don't see us using those features.
> 
> Ended up with a CRV for a song (paid less than private party out the door (ttl included) for a honda certified extended warranty etc). She LOVES it, and it was able to haul us, 2 out of otwn guests and our kiddo in the carseat!
> 
> Plus, I have my Frontier for camping/biking/xtreming.


My two final choices where the CRV and the Element. If it was going to be our only car or we didn't already have a practical hatchback that could carry 5 I would have gone for the CRV. As it is this was a second vehicle and we wanted a dedicated hauler/work vehicle so we went with the element. The element does have downsides but for those who need it fill the role it was designed to it works extremely well.


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## Twisted Trail (Oct 13, 2006)

hiker chick said:


> The Element -- which I adore -- would not be my first choice for getting to Pacific Northwest trailheads. At least not the trailheads I've been to in the past.
> 
> I would not take my Element on some of the roads we easily took my hiking buddy's Explorer, my brother's '53 Willy's or '71 Blazer.
> 
> ...


I do totally agree that the Element is not intended to be a "true off-road vehicle", and if you are in that 1% of people who own off-road vehicles and actually push them past where you can get an Element, THEN certainly do NOT get an Element.
But DO invite me along on your hikes....with someone else driving. 

I used to finagle a plymouth champ to most trailheads in Western WA. OK, that was a bit tedious, but was fun for the looks I would get when I would pull up to the Big Rigs at parking.
Then I owned a nice high clearance "true" off-road Nissan 4WD truck for about a decade. The downside in driving a gas guzzling, bad driving truck around as my main vehicle, for getting to trailheads and daily commuting just didn't pay off over the years. And I just didn't see the need in most of my acces. The Element is all I need and if I can't push it any further, I take the low impact attitude that its time to pull out the mtn bike or start hiking anyway. You just have a more expensive tow truck bill to pay if you push a "true off road" vehicle further anyway, in my experience.

But in reality, I just haven't found many/any hikes where I had to turn back because of my lack of True Off Road capability, and I am a whole lot happier driving the Element on a daily basis and its bit of extra clearance and slightly larger tires and adequate 4WD are all I need for MOST backroading.

Could you name a half dozen trailheads that an Element could not be driven to? Usually when I ask this question I get people listing easy roads like the Middle Fork or posting some picture of a trail head I could have driven my Plymouth Champ too. And OCCASIONALLY maybe one or two TRUE off road places....where for environmental impact reasons a mtn bike would probably be more appropriate anyway. 

The Element isn't for everyone. I appreciate people that make the sacrifice and buy Fords and Korean Krap, otherwise prices would REALLY be outrageous for the good cars like Toyotas and Hondas.:thumbsup:


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## reklar (Jan 28, 2004)

TCW said:


> Do your research


I did my research when I was thinking about buying one :madman: ... I bought an '06 with side impact airbags. 



> in '07 all Elements come with front, side, and curtain airbags as standard equipment.


In previous years that is not true. So, my comments stand for pre 07 Elements.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

reklar said:


> I did my research when I was thinking about buying one :madman: ... I bought an '06 with side impact airbags.
> 
> In previous years that is not true. So, my comments stand for pre 07 Elements.


So answer me this, did you know that the current Element has all the airbags as standard equipment? I had a friend with a Hyundai back in 1995 it had no airbags, therefore, I don't recommend Hyundai. Same goes for Subaru, had a friend in 1991..............


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## reklar (Jan 28, 2004)

TCW said:


> So answer me this, did you know that the current Element has all the airbags as standard equipment? I had a friend with a Hyundai back in 1995 it had no airbags, therefore, I don't recommend Hyundai. Same goes for Subaru, had a friend in 1991..............


Dude, calm down. I was off by a year. :madman: Again, my comments hold for all elements except this year. :madman:


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## BlackCanoeDog (Jul 26, 2003)

Twisted Trail said:


> Just try mentioning the Element in a hiker forum, such as nwhikers.net during a discussion of trailhead cars. I was shocked by how much of an attack that can elicit. Thats what got me noticing the dirth of Elements, at least in the Northwest at hiker only locations.
> 
> I have no problem with Subarus, a nice car, although they are a bit pricey for me, as long as I don't get stuck behind one on a two-lane no-passing road.  About 1 in 50 Subarus will actually be going at reasonable speeds, so I know the CAR has the capability. And I wouldn't even mind the Subaru owner turtle mentality, but for some reason they feel that everyone else should also enjoy their slow paced lifestyle and they will not pull over no matter how long the conga line is behind them. We try to make light of it by laying odds that the blocking car in a line we are stuck in is led by a Subaru. The only problem is its too easy a game....
> 
> Everyone needs to find the car thats right for THEIR needs though. No need to buy an Element or even read about them for those that scorn Elements in favor of a nice reliable Ford or something.


You are full of ****


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## Strafer (Jun 7, 2004)

Twisted Trail said:


> Good luck with your Hyundai if you keep if more than 2 years. You will need it. Amazing how much trouble people have with those in spite of the warranties. I know mechanics that refuse to work on those due to the problems with them.


Welcome to 1997!
I own Element myself, but if Hyundai had similar vehicle I would've bought it.
Hyundai has improved so much the last 10 years, it is nipping Honda's and Toyota's heels.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

reklar,
Calm down? Was it the dude banging his head on the brick wall that made you think I was getting upset? Oh, wait a minute I didn't place little head-banging dudes in my messages, you did. The new models also have curtain airbags, VSA, ABS, more power, etc. so you might want to upgrade.


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## reklar (Jan 28, 2004)

TCW said:


> reklar,
> Calm down? .


Yeah, calm down. The tone of your messages is just too over the top. You clearly have emotional problems.  Seriously, comparing me being off by one model year to extrapolating out 16 years is way over the top. I was off by a year ... shoot me.



> The new models also have curtain airbags, VSA, ABS, more power, etc. so you might want to upgrade.


My '06 has ABS and curtain airbags. I don't want to "upgrade", since I don't think the '07 is an upgrade, at least for me ... I wrote a full review earlier in the thread. Check it out. Peace.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

An '06 with curtain airbags? Is it custom?


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## Twisted Trail (Oct 13, 2006)

BlackCanoeDog said:


> You are full of ****


And your eloquence and detailed analysis just bowls me over! :skep:


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## hiredgun (Jun 6, 2007)

For slick roads with minimal amounts of snow any 4/allwheel drive will do fine.
I rather like the small SUVs with auto 4wheel drive, stability control and good ABS brakes; as they are brain dead to drive, get reasonable mileage, and because of the high cabin have better egress than cars. 

Remember that no matter what you drive its no better than your tires.

Make no mistake that deep snow is the territory of high ground clearance vehicles.

My wife went from a grand cherokee to a chevy crewcab truck to a nissan murano. They all got around well enough in our anchorage winters other than the occasional bad storm. I have to break Trail in the driveway for them all with my lifted ford superduty when the snow gets deep or packed.

I really like the murano as a daily driver with some utility capability. It is a solid easy to live with comfortable vehicle. I would take it over any of the honda suvs, subarus, toyotas or my friends tourage.

Its kind of funny because my wife had to drag me to the test drive, but I was impressed, especially with nissans cvt, and 2 years later I have to say that its the best vehicle we've ever owned.


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

kaikara said:


> Looks like someone has had one too many falls from his bike without a helmet on. If i am a troll i am not a very good one. Do you even know what a troll is?
> 
> "In the context of internet culture, an internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who intentionally posts messages about sensitive topics constructed to cause controversy in an online community"
> u.


Least I actually ride a bike.

I was referring to your comments from earlier in this thread you and your fellow EOC members accused me of being a troll because I was knocking your sacred Element.Remember I own one!

How many posts have you made on an Element? Thats why I called you the troll do you just cruise every car forum to "rave "about your car? :thumbsup:


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

SCC said:


> Least I actually ride a bike.
> 
> I was referring to your comments from earlier in this thread you and your fellow EOC members accused me of being a troll because I was knocking your sacred Element.Remember I own one!
> 
> How many posts have you made on an Element? Thats why I called you the troll do you just cruise every car forum to "rave "about your car? :thumbsup:


You know what this forum needs an ignore button to block users so you don't have to see their inane posts.


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

kaikara said:


> You know what this forum needs an ignore button to block users so you don't have to see their inane posts.


You said that before, you obviously have nothing to say so why do you keep repeating yourself? You should change your user name to Element Troll Boy.


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## reklar (Jan 28, 2004)

TCW said:


> An '06 with curtain airbags? Is it custom?


No, I blew it on that one, sorry. :madman:

That curtain airbag would be an upgrade. I considered waiting for the '07 when I got my '06. I didn't like the new seatbelt placement and the new interior, plus I got an incredible deal which I couldn't have gotten for another year with the '07. I have no regrets on my purchase though. My element rocks! :thumbsup:


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

reklar said:


> No, I blew it on that one, sorry. :madman:
> 
> That curtain airbag would be an upgrade. I considered waiting for the '07 when I got my '06. I didn't like the new seatbelt placement and the new interior, plus I got an incredible deal which I couldn't have gotten for another year with the '07. I have no regrets on my purchase though. My element rocks! :thumbsup:


Right on!


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Boy....*



SCC said:


> Even EOC members have their doubts. I think SPDRCR is sniffing glue.
> http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34043
> http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35245&highlight=element+doomed


You really have a hard-on to take out the Element, doncha? What did it every do to you? Did it bang your wife or something?

Lemmie see how your input has gone so far:

E-Owner: Yeah, pretty cool, has its flaws, good for the right person. I love mine.

SCC: No you don't! You just think you do because you think what the marketing tell you to think! You're an idiot for thinking you like the Element! You actually hate it, but you are too busy loving it to see that!

You know what they say about chocolate and vanilla. I say STFU unless you have something else to add. How many times are you gonna repeat that same tired diatribe?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*You could say....*



SCC said:


> You said that before, you obviously have nothing to say so why do you keep repeating yourself? You should change your user name to Element Troll Boy.


... the exact same things about your posts.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Let me add....*



Twisted Trail said:


> I do totally agree that the Element is not intended to be a "true off-road vehicle", and if you are in that 1% of people who own off-road vehicles and actually push them past where you can get an Element, THEN certainly do NOT get an Element.
> But DO invite me along on your hikes....with someone else driving.
> 
> I used to finagle a plymouth champ to most trailheads in Western WA. OK, that was a bit tedious, but was fun for the looks I would get when I would pull up to the Big Rigs at parking.
> ...


Doesn't it seem silly to _drive _to the trailhead? Heck, why not park at the road and ride your bike to the trailhead, or hike if you are hiking. What, you want a ride around the mountain? Why did you go out there in the first place?

I know, this is in the context of the off-road capabilites of the Element (or other vehicles) but really.... are you going off roading, or hiking/biking??

That said, I drive my VW GTi down some loose fireroads to trailheads all the time. I won't break any speed records doing it, and if it rains, it's all over and tow-truck/winch time. Maybe the places I go aren't all that outback.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*So close the sunroof*

Unless you live on Mercury , the sun isn't always directly overhead. I hear you, tho. My wife wanted to get a convertable, but after really thinking about it, we decided we don't like direct sun anyway, so the convertable was kinda silly, really.

What is the sunroof like on the E anyway? On my GTi it's shaded glass with an interior slide up cover to block the sun when you don't want to get blasted. It also tilts up in the back, which is how I drive with it 90% of the time in sunny weather.


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## Twisted Trail (Oct 13, 2006)

pimpbot said:


> Doesn't it seem silly to _drive _to the trailhead? Heck, why not park at the road and ride your bike to the trailhead, or hike if you are hiking. What, you want a ride around the mountain? Why did you go out there in the first place?
> 
> I know, this is in the context of the off-road capabilites of the Element (or other vehicles) but really.... are you going off roading, or hiking/biking??
> 
> That said, I drive my VW GTi down some loose fireroads to trailheads all the time. I won't break any speed records doing it, and if it rains, it's all over and tow-truck/winch time. Maybe the places I go aren't all that outback.


I like your attitude. I am all about minimalism when it comes to internal combustion usage, for power and clearance. If your VW GTi is all you need for a trailhead car, more power too you! I used to finesse a Plymouth Champ down some gnarly roads many many years ago. For me these days, the Element accessibility is my comfort level for where I start riding/hiking. I used to park on the pavement and ride in from there, but I got tired of eating dust of all those people that just have to see how far they can go before putting in some of their own effort. 

Sun roof on the Element is basic like everything else in this affordable car. Its simply a tinted chunk of glass that tips up enough to vent the car a bit, or you can remove it for carrying odd stuff or playing Tank Commander. I have known people that use it basically as a gun turret for hunting with the glass removed. It has no total sun block capability...that is user supplied, and many people have work arounds to that. I don't like a sunroof directly overhead because I have pretty much no "shade" left ON my head. So I like the position moved to the back in the Element, and I still tinted my sun roof darker for the people in the back seat.

The Element is a lot like the VW bus of yesteryear, a simple affordable people's vehicle thats easy and cheap to modify into what you need, and if it doesn't fit what you need, certainly buy something else.

Its probably the LEAST marketed car in the history of cars, since its inception. They did not cut back on ads for it....they never had any significant amount of ads for it. Its basically been sold by word of mouth, which is about the only way Honda can probably make money on this price leader car. I am sure that Honda would much rather the Element owners would all buy fully loaded Pilots.


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> You really have a hard-on to take out the Element, doncha? What did it every do to you? Did it bang your wife or something?
> 
> Read the whole thread and you might find out:thumbsup: Can you say LEMON .. from the most overrated car manufacturer on the planet. Crappy customer service to boot.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*yeah, yeah yeah...*



SCC said:


> pimpbot said:
> 
> 
> > You really have a hard-on to take out the Element, doncha? What did it every do to you? Did it bang your wife or something?
> ...


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

pimpbot said:


> Unless you live on Mercury , the sun isn't always directly overhead. I hear you, tho. My wife wanted to get a convertable, but after really thinking about it, we decided we don't like direct sun anyway, so the convertable was kinda silly, really.
> 
> What is the sunroof like on the E anyway? On my GTi it's shaded glass with an interior slide up cover to block the sun when you don't want to get blasted. It also tilts up in the back, which is how I drive with it 90% of the time in sunny weather.


The sunroof is not directly over the back seats but more to the rear. It is not a mechanical slider but allows you to pop it up manually or take the whole piece of glass out. You can get an sun shade for it as an accessory if the sun is really a problem. When I tintied the windows I had them tint it so combined with how dark it was already the sun coming through has never been a problem with my son in the car seat in the back.


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> SCC said:
> 
> 
> > You think you got a lemon. We got it.... the first 20 times. Input noted the first time.
> ...


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Okay, so really*



SCC said:


> pimpbot said:
> 
> 
> > Well than why did you have to ask such a stupid question ..Takes a while to sink in.:thumbsup:
> ...


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> SCC said:
> 
> 
> > why are you so bent on repeating your same diatribe over and over? Most folks with a brain would have sold the 'lemon' (which has excellent resale value) and gotten on with thier lives.
> ...


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## hiker chick (Apr 19, 2006)

This thread is in need of some serious dog therapy. 

Here's Gidget on the sturdy Element tailgate (a handy spot for lounging) and hiding out in the cavernous interior as she heard thunder. And a pic of her taking a break from pulling me on my Rocky Mt Vertex 30.


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## hiker chick (Apr 19, 2006)

And some more Element camping-bike pics. The orange bags in the Loadwarrior roof basket are bundles of firewood. The Loadwarrior is worth it just for that convenience -- toss six bundles up there, no problem.


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## hiker chick (Apr 19, 2006)

Studies have shown that dog therapy can lower blood pressure.

If it works here then it is further evidence that it is no coincidence that dog is God spelled backwards. 

Oh, and more E pics, too

Love mine, by the way. Not a lemon, nothing citrus about it. More like Godiva chocolate, for the price of a Snicker's bar.

As you can see, I like big tents. They all fit nicely in the Element -- along with a couple bikes and way too much gear.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

hiker chick said:


> Studies have shown that dog therapy can lower blood pressure.
> 
> If it works here then it is further evidence that it is no coincidence that dog is God spelled backwards.
> 
> ...


:thumbsup: great post - beautiful dog - great element pics. I am sure that SCC will find something negative to say though. He seems like and all around negative guy from his posts.


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## BlackCanoeDog (Jul 26, 2003)

^^^+1, nice photos of good times with your dog in its element!


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## hiker chick (Apr 19, 2006)

Thank you, BCD and Kaikara.  

Gidget is a certified therapy dog and I'm hoping her magic works virtually, too. 

The Element is a great vehicle for dogs, which is why there is a section of the EOC devoted to dogs.

:thumbsup:


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

kaikara said:


> :thumbsup: great post - beautiful dog - great element pics. I am sure that SCC will find something negative to say though. He seems like and all around negative guy from his posts.


Ha ha ha so wrong Mr smartass!:thumbsup: I have complemented her on her dog before.
I owned a Samoyed myself 135 lbs of tail wagging ball of fuss.

Maybe you should read some other posts outside of this thread for a change. You know something about riding a bike maybe


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*it was a rhetorical question, dumbass*



SCC said:


> pimpbot said:
> 
> 
> > If you don't want an answer don't pose a question,.dumbass. I hope your engine seizes 1 day after your warranty is over.
> ...


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> SCC said:
> 
> 
> > and it's 'allowed' not 'aloud' and 'wimps' not 'whimps'
> ...


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*I think I made my point*



SCC said:


> pimpbot said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing better to say so you have to correct my spelling. You don't even own one! You can't stop talking about them. No life?
> ...


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## SCC (Jan 20, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> SCC said:
> 
> 
> > I realize what you are saying. You complained.... over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. (gotta love cut and paste)
> ...


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