# Ebike category for Strava? Really?



## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I am 100% behind class 1 pedelecs, but find this disturbing. Isn’t this like being valedictorian in summer school? Do you think they added it to try and keep it pure? As much as I enjoy ebikes, I can’t get behind this. What do you think?


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

It makes sense. They need a mountain bike category that doesn't count toward normal segments.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Yes but with a Mtb obviously it’s just you with no assist. Do they offer different wattages? Too many variables for emtbs.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

I think the category exists just to keep people from annoying non-e Stravassholes. 

If you're trying to be competitive with an e-bike, though, yeah... it makes no sense. Different bikes with different motors and batteries are going to perform WAY differently - some people will have defeated the limiter (actually, I'd guess most people who are both into e-bikes and strava would do that right away) and some won't, etc, etc. 

How do they police the bike/motor/battery at those e-bike races? Or do they just take your word that you're on a Class 1 (or whatever class they're racing) and go for it?

But people already cheat at strava constantly, so it doesn't mean much regardless, right? You can just edit the GPX file if you want to be "fast" on the internet, after all. I basically just use Strava to see how old and slow I'm getting, if I wanted to try (and probably fail miserably) to prove what a stud I am to the real world, I'd have to go enter a real race.

-Walt


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Walt said:


> I think the category exists just to keep people from annoying non-e Stravassholes.
> 
> If you're trying to be competitive with an e-bike, though, yeah... it makes no sense. Different bikes with different motors and batteries are going to perform WAY differently - some people will have defeated the limiter (actually, I'd guess most people who are both into e-bikes and strava would do that right away) and some won't, etc, etc.
> 
> ...


I agree with Walt, if you are going to strava on your eBike, please don't use the regular MTB option.... BUUUUUUUT, like he said people can modify the files and cheat anyway.... so who really cares i guess?

I know my close riding buddies do not cheat strava so I am happy to compare my times to thiers and forget about all of the other times people post.


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## Capt.Ogg (Jun 5, 2015)

It makes sense on DH segments and why not on some technical segments too. Riding is not all about pedalling power, otherwise I would have been riding the DH World champs yesterday.

I understand ebike classes in enduro races are growing all the time here in Europe. I do not know how or if they check the bikes for tuning etc.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Face it, Strava is fecked!


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Mr Pig said:


> Face it, Strava is fecked!


Yes, they will go down with Facebook. IMO, neither should have been here.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Gutch said:


> Yes, they will go down with Facebook. IMO, neither should have been here.


...says the guy who's always preaching that no one should tell anyone else how to have fun.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

JMO, JB weld. I’m not name calling or bewildering riders.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Btw, all my friends do Strava and my wife FB. Just not for me. Like Walt said, if you’re that fast and that’s your gig, go race. Or FB, pick up the phone and actually talk.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Gutch said:


> Like Walt said, if you're that fast and that's your gig, go race. Or FB, pick up the phone and actually talk.


Or maybe just do what you want and not worry about what others think you should do.

You sound just like the "antis" you're always bitching about.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Gutch said:


> JMO, JB weld. I'm not name calling or bewildering riders.


I'd have to question at least part of that.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Dude, have a beer or go blow off some watts, whatever. Just for you I’ll KOM tomorrow and post it on Facebook! Go stravafreakin nuts. Btw, why are you guys still posting in the ebike forum? Bored of your mtbs or don’t have anything to post up on the board?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Why are you posting about strava when you don't use it? Bored with your electric motorbike?


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

So, you’re for ebike Strava? Cool. I can’t insult ebike Strava like you do ebikes? Dish it but can’t take it. Dropped mic.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Gutch said:


> Dish it but can't take it. Dropped mic.


lol @ 'dropped mike"

I've never been anti ebike nor said anything derogatory about their riders. Well, I may have said something derogatory about someone who happens to ride an electric bike once or twice but not *because* they ride an electric bike. Ride on cowboy!


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Come ride with me. You can ride my emtb and post on E Strava, then you will have fulfilled your destiny!


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Gutch said:


> I am 100% behind class 1 pedelecs, but find this disturbing. Isn't this like being valedictorian in summer school? Do you think they added it to try and keep it pure? As much as I enjoy ebikes, I can't get behind this. What do you think?


There are some steep, technical climbs here that are very tough to clean on a regular bike. To master one of those climbs, only to turn around and see someone on an e-bike strolling blithely up the hill at twice the speed you were doing. Yeah, we need the e-bike category. Granted, that assumes the people who are riding e-bikes are labeling the ride as "e-bike". . .


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## chestr (Oct 15, 2016)

This is a bizarre thread. There has been an e-bike category on strava for over 2 years at least.

They have their own leaderboards and own segments. If someone lists their ride incorrect someone will flag it as wrong activity type. 

It works fine where i live. The 10 ebikers or so in my town have their own leaderboards and do their own thing and it doesn't affect any other strava user at all.

Same goes with runners. They have their own stuff too, and kayakers and so on.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

I primarily use Strava to track my mileage for maintenance items. Sure, I look at my rides once in a while, but not everyone on Strava cares to be the KOM.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Here's a thought:

Since all the ebikers claim everyone will ride responsibly, maybe they all should use Strava to track their rides to prove it.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Cornfield said:


> Here's a thought:
> 
> Since all the ebikers claim everyone will ride responsibly, maybe they all should use Strava to track their rides to prove it.


I don't believe all emtbrs will ride responsibly, same as mtbrs. I'll strava my downhills on both and I'll bet they are close. Actually, no I won't. Don't care for Strava, but to each his own.


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

Walt said:


> I think the category exists just to keep people from annoying non-e Stravassholes.
> 
> But people already cheat at strava constantly, so it doesn't mean much regardless, right? You can just edit the GPX file if you want to be "fast" on the internet, after all. I basically just use Strava to see how old and slow I'm getting, if I wanted to try (and probably fail miserably) to prove what a stud I am to the real world, I'd have to go enter a real race.
> 
> -Walt


BuuuwahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

My sides are hurting, Great post...


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Makes perfect sense because it keeps eMTB off the normal ride segments.

Now eMTB people can compare with each other, as it should be. As for "too many variables and different wattages," that is not an issue at all since all eBikes in the US are limited to 750 watts and eBikes in Europe are limited to 250 watts, so you are competing against similar bikes. If you are on a bike which does not reach the limit or not using 100% assist, that is your choice.


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## RichardWad (Sep 24, 2019)

It makes perfect sense to me.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Gutch said:


> I don't believe all emtbrs will ride responsibly, same as mtbrs. I'll strava my downhills on both and I'll bet they are close. Actually, no I won't. Don't care for Strava, but to each his own.


Not sure why this thread was bumped but I think there is a huge distinction between road e-biking and mountain e-biking. An e-bike on pavement --- yes it is silly to have a Strava category for KOM's and other stuff, besides just logging miles. It's so dumb that I recently tried to find a non-Strava app to log by e-bike rides but none of the other apps looked as comprehensive as Strava so I'm reluctantly continuing to log Strava e-bike rides, not proud of that at all lol. I'm leading a local bike shop's weekly mile category and I seriously feel like telling them to put an asterisk by my name every week since I'm on an e-bike and the rest of them are not. Or just have me deleted, I don't care much either way.

On pavement, he who has the most watts and lack of common sense/safety wins. I got some KOM up my 15% pavement grade to my home a few months ago, and immediately deleted it, so, so, dumb. Total joke. But on dirt, it's not that simple. You can't just ramp up the power indefinitely on dirt, you have to manage the power, traction, balance, steering, everything you do on a normal bike, just differently because there is more power. And that more power changes the bike's dynamics in many ways; you have to relearn how to ride fast on a 50 lb bike with 500+W. That takes some skill and talent. So yeah the e-mountain bike races may seem funny but those dudes do have skill. E-bike races on pavement? May as well watch a drag race with funny cars, same thing.


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## TheBikeStore (Aug 27, 2017)

rsilvers said:


> Makes perfect sense because it keeps eMTB off the normal ride segments.
> 
> If you are on a bike which does not reach the limit or not using 100% assist, that is your choice.


Agreed, it stings a lot less when you lose an eBike KOM vs a standard bike KOM.

Then again, the standard bike rider with the KOM might ride a super bike that weights 19 lbs with glowing Tron wheels. That takes the sting out of losing a standard KOM a little bit as well. Unless you're the one with the fancy bike and a kid on a beach cruiser smashes your time.

Hunting strava KOMS on $500 BEACH CRUISER?!?!:





That is also assuming that one has both type of segments to lose in the first place. I got the dreaded "You just lost your KOM by 1 second" over the weekend. I was like oh crap, then I realized it was an eBike segment and the angst faded straight away!

Whatever you ride, do it for fun and if you post it on strava and it's fast, so be it.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

richj8990 said:


> On pavement, he who has the most watts and lack of common sense/safety wins.


I don't want to disagree because I agree with most of what you said - specifically that eMTB racing was more difficult due to traction management on turns.

But, there is no need to go on and trash powered vehicle racing on the road. Take the extreme example of motorcycle racing on paved tracks. All of the bikes are limited in power to about the same. So there is no point in ever racing anything ever on pavement? And is this an argument against not having an eBike activity?

Should Strava detect if you are on pavement and disable the leaderboard for eBikes or something because some people don't think it is difficult enough to get 250 or 750 free watts and have to add their own beyond that? Maybe people who don't ride them don't know, but the way you get a eBike KOM is to pedal hard past the motor. My heart rate goes up just as high as on a manual bike to do this.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

richj8990 said:


> Not sure why this thread was bumped but I think there is a huge distinction between road e-biking and mountain e-biking. An e-bike on pavement --- yes it is silly to have a Strava category for KOM's and other stuff, besides just logging miles. It's so dumb that I recently tried to find a non-Strava app to log by e-bike rides but none of the other apps looked as comprehensive as Strava so I'm reluctantly continuing to log Strava e-bike rides, not proud of that at all lol. I'm leading a local bike shop's weekly mile category and I seriously feel like telling them to put an asterisk by my name every week since I'm on an e-bike and the rest of them are not. Or just have me deleted, I don't care much either way.
> 
> On pavement, he who has the most watts and lack of common sense/safety wins. I got some KOM up my 15% pavement grade to my home a few months ago, and immediately deleted it, so, so, dumb. Total joke. But on dirt, it's not that simple. You can't just ramp up the power indefinitely on dirt, you have to manage the power, traction, balance, steering, everything you do on a normal bike, just differently because there is more power. And that more power changes the bike's dynamics in many ways; you have to relearn how to ride fast on a 50 lb bike with 500+W. That takes some skill and talent. So yeah the e-mountain bike races may seem funny but those dudes do have skill. E-bike races on pavement? May as well watch a drag race with funny cars, same thing.


I don't understand..... are you logging your eBike rides as eBike in strava? If so your KOM should only be against other eBikers, not against the pedal guys..... Am I missing something?

I was under the impression that if eBikers logged a ride as eBike instead of regular bike that it was totally separate leader boards.....


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Strava pushes the limits to go faster on trails, should not be for ebikes. JMO.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

richj8990 said:


> E-bike races on pavement? May as well watch a drag race with funny cars, same thing.


First, I'll say that you obviously know nothing about drag racing. Jump in a funny car sometime and let us know how easy it is to get it down the 1/4 mile at over 300 MPH. Hell, take whatever car you own and go run three consistent 1/4 miles. It isn't easy, which is why there is more money and more spectator interest in drag racing than in all forms of cycling combined in the US.

As for ebike racing "on pavement", I guarantee ebike road racing will become a thing within the next ten years, just like there was an ebike category at the MTB World Championships recently. The categories and races will be designed such that a rider maxing out their e-power would have a dead battery halfway through the race. Which means they will have to learn how to balance the power they put to the pedals with the power they get from the battery. Drafting will be as much a part of the strategy as it is today in road races. Teamwork will also be as much of a factor - just like in road racing today, teams will put a rider on the front to hammer away until they are dead, except it will be both physically *and* electrically dead. They could have different race formats, for example, they could have races where battery changes are allowed, races where the bikes ridden are put into weight categories, races where recumbents or streamlined ebikes are allowed, etc. It will all be driven by what the manufacturers want to sell, just like any other form of racing. Specialized already gave their new e-road bikes to riders at the Tour de France to ride on the rest days, once they are widely adopted as training tools, the racing will follow.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

honkinunit said:


> ...which is why there is more money and more spectator interest in drag racing than in all forms of cycling combined in the US..


when people can sit on one spot to watch the whole event and race bikes cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, your point will be moot...


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## kaleidopete (Feb 7, 2015)

I never thought of Strava pushing the limits to go faster on trails. I just use Strava to record my rides and accomplishments of places I've ridden. Also because it records my heart rate and speed. (lack of). It's a fun service. 
I always ride outdoors in all the elements and sometimes it bugs me when I'm in a challenge and see others doing better while they're riding in their warm dry house while I'm out in the snow & ice at 0°.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Everybody uses it for different reasons no doubt, however one of the largest arguments about emtbs is closing speeds allegedly going too fast uphill. Viola KOM - not cool.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Gutch said:


> Everybody uses it for different reasons no doubt, however one of the largest arguments about emtbs is closing speeds allegedly going too fast uphill. Viola KOM - not cool.


my ebike (moped, whatever) is a commuter and i just ride out into the street to pass roadies, but i could certainly believe this is 100% true for trail riding. if 10 seconds ago, there was nobody behind you and then all of a sudden some shithead is riding your rear tire or just blowing by you all together causing crashes or just pissing people off, i'd have beef with said person as well...


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

kaleidopete said:


> I never thought of Strava pushing the limits to go faster on trails.


It is a time-trail leaderboard system to me at times, and also for logging rides in general. But yes, for sure it is an informal form of racing racing that you can do any time and on your own and then compare yourself to previous rides and to others.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Gutch said:


> Everybody uses it for different reasons no doubt, however one of the largest arguments about emtbs is closing speeds allegedly going too fast uphill. Viola KOM - not cool.


They actually allow you to go slower uphill. When on a manual bike, I build up a ton of momentum and then crank very hard and if someone else is coming down the same hill, I still maintain full speed because I know that if I stop, I have to unclip and walk if the hill is too steep to restart on. With eMTB, I can just put on the brakes is someone if coming and relax knowing it doesn't matter if I lose my momentum.

Also, they cannot go 20mph uphill. I have not been able to go more than about 13mph up steep hills. Needless to say, I can stop from 13mph to zero in an instant.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

rsilvers said:


> Also, they cannot go 20mph uphill. I have not been able to go more than about 13mph up steep hills. Needless to say, I can stop from 13mph to zero in an instant.


I had one at 19mph on a "steep" hill and I was giggling at the time, I bet I could have made 20 if I'd only gritted my teeth some.

13 is pretty fast though, how fast you can get to zero from there depends on what ones definition of an instant is.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

Bike Calculator

This says 1150 watts to go 20mph up a 10% grade with a 154lb rider and a 50lb bike.

So if you can get the bike to average 600 watts, and kick in another 550 watts of manual power, then it is possible.

My 13mph took 675 watts, according to the calculator.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Well I didn't have my calculator with me so I don't know about that. It is pretty fun climbing hills @2 or 3x the speed I normally can though


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Gutch said:


> Everybody uses it for different reasons no doubt, however one of the largest arguments about emtbs is closing speeds allegedly going too fast uphill. Viola KOM - not cool.


Bah! There is a climb by my house that is a mile and a half with an average grade of 10%. On my regular bike I average around 4mph up this climb. On my e-bike I average around 8mph. A difference of 4mph. Not exactly the alarming speed delta you make it out to be.


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

I use it to track my rides, and I like to look at the maps.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

I'm on Strava and I don't understand why people care? If e-guys want to use it...OK. If there's a special category for it...good for them.

Like shreddr, I use Strava to keep track of what I'm doing...it's waaaaay easier than a notebook.

Until Strava starts giving me $$$$ and others cheating costs me some of that $$$$, it doesn't affect me either way. <shrug>


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

scatterbrained said:


> Bah! There is a climb by my house that is a mile and a half with an average grade of 10%. On my regular bike I average around 4mph up this climb. On my e-bike I average around 8mph. A difference of 4mph. Not exactly the alarming speed delta you make it out to be.


i'm pretty sure i could climb up a straight wall at 8mph, i easily creep up 10% over 15mph...


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> Well I didn't have my calculator with me so I don't know about that. It is pretty fun climbing hills @2 or 3x the speed I normally can though


+1


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> Well I didn't have my calculator with me so I don't know about that. It is pretty fun climbing hills @2 or 3x the speed I normally can though


And this is eBikes in general, we have all busted our asses on climbs for the downhill payoff. I would have ridden eBikes 20 years ago if they were available. Swooping turns and downhill is where the fun is so eBikes just maximize why we all got into MTB to begin with. There is no turning back, the manufacturers will see where their growth is coming from and will advocate for all of us. I am more engaged with MTB now than I have been in the last 10 years and it's all about eBikes.

Riding the wave 

Rock on brothers!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

shreddr said:


> And this is eBikes in general, we have all busted our asses on climbs for the downhill payoff. I would have ridden eBikes 20 years ago if they were available. Swooping turns and downhill is where the fun is so eBikes just maximize why we all got into MTB to begin with. There is no turning back, the manufacturers will see where their growth is coming from and will advocate for all of us. I am more engaged with MTB now than I have been in the last 10 years and it's all about eBikes.
> 
> Riding the wave
> 
> Rock on brothers!


.

Although they're amusing ebikes aren't for me, the motor changes the experience entirely. Given time I might grow to like it but I've had a lifelong love affair with bicycles and a good part of that attraction is their simplicity, the fact that I'm the motor, and the freedom those things represent.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

scatterbrained said:


> Bah! There is a climb by my house that is a mile and a half with an average grade of 10%. On my regular bike I average around 4mph up this climb. On my e-bike I average around 8mph. A difference of 4mph. Not exactly the alarming speed delta you make it out to be.


 I'm for emtbs, not opposed to them. Just stating actual arguments or beliefs. I just rode 20mph up a 18% grade, barefoot on my new flats, just to get home to eat my wife's meatloaf.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Gutch said:


> I'm for emtbs, not opposed to them. Just stating actual arguments or beliefs. I just rode 20mph up a 18% grade, barefoot on my new flats, just to get home to eat my wife's meatloaf.


I'm not sure that's coming across the way you think it is?


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Mr Pig said:


> I'm not sure that's coming across the way you think it is?


Maybe...😀


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

smartyiak said:


> I'm on Strava and I don't understand why people care? If e-guys want to use it...OK. If there's a special category for it...good for them.
> 
> Like shreddr, I use Strava to keep track of what I'm doing...it's waaaaay easier than a notebook.
> 
> Until Strava starts giving me $$$$ and others cheating costs me some of that $$$$, it doesn't affect me either way. <shrug>





J.B. Weld said:


> .
> 
> Although they're amusing ebikes aren't for me, the motor changes the experience entirely. Given time I might grow to like it but I've had a lifelong love affair with bicycles and a good part of that attraction is their simplicity, the fact that I'm the motor, and the freedom those things represent.


I hear you brother! i rode bicycles from the age of 5, more as freedom and transportation than anything, but the first time I rode a minibike it was love at first twist of the throttle! I motocross raced for 15 seasons, and then followed that up with 12 years of MTB racing. I find eBikes to be the sweet spot in between these 2 loves.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

I love strava for tracking my rides and seeing how I compare to other friends. I've nevered cared about the climbs and of course that is were ebikes are fast. I wish Strava just kept ebikes with regular bikes and give us a filter like they already do with: sex, age, weight and add ebike. Setting up new segments is a pain in the arsh and getting them to be exactly like the bike segment is practically impossible.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

mtbbiker said:


> I wish Strava just kept ebikes with regular bikes and give us a filter like they already do with: sex, age, weight and add ebike. Setting up new segments is a pain in the arsh and getting them to be exactly like the bike segment is practically impossible.


Setting up segments seems pretty easy to me. I don't think it's impossible to duplicate one but why would that matter?


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> Setting up segments seems pretty easy to me. I don't think it's impossible to duplicate one but why would that matter?


Creating new segments is easy, but to make an exact match of a bike segment is practically impossible. The reason is, I like to see how I compare to my friends on the downhills as well as my previous times when I rode a regular bike. Right now the only way to do that is download as a regular bike, which I do for several minutes to see my downhill times, then I change it to ebikes. Why not just add to the already filters on strava: age, gender, weight, all time, this year and add ebike? That would seem to be the simplest solution? And BTW, I'm generally still not the fastest climber.


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## TheBikeStore (Aug 27, 2017)

mtbbiker said:


> Right now the only way to do that is download as a regular bike, which I do for several minutes to see my downhill times, then I change it to ebikes. Why not just add to the already filters on strava: age, gender, weight, all time, this year and add ebike? That would seem to be the simplest solution? And BTW, I'm generally still not the fastest climber.


The filter approach would be a hassle to all non-eBike stud climbers. Every time they log a ride, they would have to filter the eBike times off and they would also need to beat the fastest eBike time to get a KOM awarded. You don't get a 40-50 year old or a 180 pound rider KOM. You only get a KOM if you are the fastest overall time with all filters off (except gender of course).

There might be some super fast climbers where you live, but on my eBike rides locally, I am faster than all of the standard bike riders going up. I do ride in turbo the whole time and I push the pedals like I was 14 again!

When I use a computer and upload to the Strava website directly using a .gpx file, by default my rides upload as a 'Bike ride' as soon as I select the file it goes live on the site. Then if I open another Strava window and look at my dashboard, I can see my DH times compared to all riders. Then I go back to the first window that is still awaiting my input and edit my title, add a description, change the activity type to 'eBike ride' and click save. This saves a step in the process if you currently use the manual upload.

I make eBike segments and call them the same thing as the standard bike segments and get them to match as close as I can. The point of the eBike segment is to keep the bike types separate from one another and it doesn't matter if the eBike segments a few meters off one way or another, you and everyone else will see where you rode and they will see a time that is close to what it would have been on a regular bike.

They are not the same machines and it would not be fair to standard bikers to include eBikes in the same leaderboard, would you bring a knife to a gun fight?


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

mtbbiker said:


> Creating new segments is easy, but to make an exact match of a bike segment is practically impossible. The reason is, I like to see how I compare to my friends on the downhills as well as my previous times when I rode a regular bike. Right now the only way to do that is download as a regular bike, which I do for several minutes to see my downhill times, then I change it to ebikes. Why not just add to the already filters on strava: age, gender, weight, all time, this year and add ebike? That would seem to be the simplest solution? And BTW, I'm generally still not the fastest climber.


Strongly disagree. They are 2 different sports/activities and deserve 2 different categories. As bike store mentioned the KOM's and top 10 or top 20 spots should only belong to the best eBikers in the eBike category and the best Riders in the non-motorized category. I really don't care if people want to legally ride eBikes and I don't think less of a person for riding one, but posting a KOM on a climb that is beating out pedal bikes with the aid of a motor is just as dubious as "e-doping" ones gpx files before uploading them. It is cheating. While in the big picture it has no real bearing on life, it says a lot about a persons character that they feel the need to cheat their way to undeserved recognition.

Creating a segment to match that from the Pedal bike side of Strava is not that hard, you can always go back and modify it a bit if you are the one creating it, just make sure you are doing it on a computer with a big enough screen and precision mouse movements. At worst you will be just a few feet off the other route.

Think of it this way. I am a bit MOTOGP fan, there are 4 Classes of racers, 250cc, 700cc and 1000cc. On a single track the fastest lap times vary greatly. It would be unfair to allow the 1000cc bikes race in the pack with the 250cc bikes, it would be cheating. Just like no governing board is going to allow an eBike to compete in a pedal only bicycle race, and those who have tried with hidden motors n such get fined, shamed and banned from the sport.

Strava is not a sport, but if you feel it is okay to cheat the leader boards on strava, you probably think it is okay to cheat when it comes to other things.

sorry, this sort of thinking drives me nuts.

rant over.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

mtbbiker said:


> ........ Setting up new segments is a pain in the arsh and getting them to be exactly like the bike segment is practically impossible.


 The question is, do they need to match exactly? One thing I noticed in my area is that some people will add "tails" to the segments. The trail will end but the segment will extend 20yds or more down the next fire road or trail. Or the segment will begin way up the fire road from the trailhead. I'm convinced people do this to try and ensure they get the KOM assuming others won't start sprinting 50yds from the trailhead, or hammer down the fire road after exiting the trail. I'd rather have segments that are accurate reflections of the trails. Granted this is entirely tangential to the discussion but it annoys me. 
.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

TheBikeStore said:


> The filter approach would be a hassle to all non-eBike stud climbers. Every time they log a ride, they would have to filter the eBike times off and they would also need to beat the fastest eBike time to get a KOM awarded. You don't get a 40-50 year old or a 180 pound rider KOM. You only get a KOM if you are the fastest overall time with all filters off (except gender of course).
> 
> There might be some super fast climbers where you live, but on my eBike rides locally, I am faster than all of the standard bike riders going up. I do ride in turbo the whole time and I push the pedals like I was 14 again!
> 
> ...





Klurejr said:


> Strongly disagree. They are 2 different sports/activities and deserve 2 different categories. As bike store mentioned the KOM's and top 10 or top 20 spots should only belong to the best eBikers in the eBike category and the best Riders in the non-motorized category. I really don't care if people want to legally ride eBikes and I don't think less of a person for riding one, but posting a KOM on a climb that is beating out pedal bikes with the aid of a motor is just as dubious as "e-doping" ones gpx files before uploading them. It is cheating. While in the big picture it has no real bearing on life, it says a lot about a persons character that they feel the need to cheat their way to undeserved recognition.
> 
> Creating a segment to match that from the Pedal bike side of Strava is not that hard, you can always go back and modify it a bit if you are the one creating it, just make sure you are doing it on a computer with a big enough screen and precision mouse movements. At worst you will be just a few feet off the other route.
> 
> ...


In my opinion, they are pretty darn close to be the same and my times on the downhills are faster on some segments on my emtb and some are faster on my mtb, but only seconds faster. Yes, like I said on the emtb, I'm quite a bit faster on climbs when compared to my mtb.

When I've created new segments in the emtb, they are never close, even after I've changed them. When I've gone to new locations and save my ride as emtb, nothing shows and I don't know the area well enough to create any segments.

Let me try to make it clearer how I think this would be better. On the main screen, let there be tabs: Overall, this year, mtb, emtb, age, gender or put this in settings. If you are an mtb, click on that and it only shows mtb results, if you are on an emtb, click on that and it only shows emtb. I bet there are quite a few guys that would leave it on this year and be proud they beat an emtb. Also in the overall leaderboard, it will show next to the rider if they were on an emtb or mtb. When I ride I rarely use boost, so on most climbs, I'm usually in the top 10 for the day. As long as emtb riders accurately identify themselves as emtb then there is no cheating.



scatterbrained said:


> The question is, do they need to match exactly? One thing I noticed in my area is that some people will add "tails" to the segments. The trail will end but the segment will extend 20yds or more down the next fire road or trail. Or the segment will begin way up the fire road from the trailhead. I'm convinced people do this to try and ensure they get the KOM assuming others won't start sprinting 50yds from the trailhead, or hammer down the fire road after exiting the trail. I'd rather have segments that are accurate reflections of the trails. Granted this is entirely tangential to the discussion but it annoys me.
> .


Yep!!! I've seen plenty of sneaky segments like that!


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Majority of Lycra's feel that ebikes are for cheaters, but its interesting that Strava put that category in.


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## bholio2 (Oct 21, 2013)

I use strava to compare me to myself. 

If I rode an ebike regularly, I'd want that to be compared separately from my normal bike, just like running is kept separate from biking. 

It is weird that they don't replicate all the bike segments automatically to ebike segments. That would make it much easier for everyone.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Am I the only person who thinks eBikes ruining strava is funny as heck?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> Am I the only person who thinks eBikes ruining strava is funny as heck?


Probably the only one who's over 13y/0 

jk, e-bikes aren't ruining strava.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

J.B. Weld said:


> e-bikes aren't ruining strava.


Rats :0(


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

rsilvers said:


> Bike Calculator
> 
> This says 1150 watts to go 20mph up a 10% grade with a 154lb rider and a 50lb bike.
> 
> ...


But for that 13 mph run, what level did you put the motor on to begin with? That's (most of) your answer.

There has to be some kind of watt app for mid-drives; my hub drive clearly shows what wattage I'm using for the 5 levels: 65, 110, 200, 280, 550 watts. That makes it easy to calculate pedal power after looking at the Strava calculated (total) watts and then subtracting about 15% efficiency from the hub motor's watt readout.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Klurejr said:


> I don't understand..... are you logging your eBike rides as eBike in strava? If so your KOM should only be against other eBikers, not against the pedal guys..... Am I missing something?
> 
> I was under the impression that if eBikers logged a ride as eBike instead of regular bike that it was totally separate leader boards.....


I mixed two different topics.

Topic one: I recently joined a club online, Chainline Bikes, over in El Cajon CA. At the time I didn't know they had an online weekly mile leaderboard, that includes all bike riding --- road, mountain, and e-bikes. Anything on Strava that was logged as a bike ride was posted, both pedal and e-power. All of a sudden I start getting join requests and kudos from strangers. I thought OK, they want new members in the club, that's fine but I didn't really understand. So then I went to their website to look at what they charge for a bike build, saw their leaderboard and I'm on top every week lol. I'm only doing around 300 miles a month so obviously the road bikers are not joining this leaderboard, since many of them do 30-50 miles at a time and they can log over 500 miles a month or more. Even if I didn't own an e-bike I'd still probably be on top, but I just feel that everyone on there should know I'm using an e-bike to get 70-80% of my total miles, and the e-bike is around 20-40% faster than the pedal bike. So that means on paper, apples to apples should subtract roughly 20% of my total combined e- and pedal miles to get normalized total pedal miles w/o e-power.

Lately I've been thinking of going back to a normal pedal bike for pavement instead of the e-bike, just to wear down some 26 x 1.95 tires that are stacked up in the garage. The 56-lb e-bike is really hard on those skinny tires and they tend to lose air even on pavement. Pavement and concrete has bumps too, you feel them on a 56-lb bike. That reminds me I need to get a new mini-pump!

Topic two: I rode up a paved hill at max power, at that time 750W, logged it as an e-bike ride of course. Some other person on an e-bike rode up it slower. Two riders, I was faster, I got the KOM. Pffft. Total joke. Maybe they had a 250W bike, does that mean I deserve a KOM? Of course not. Sorry everyone, pavement e-KOM's are ridiculous, no convincing me otherwise.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Cornfield said:


> Here's a thought:
> 
> Since all the ebikers claim everyone will ride responsibly, maybe they all should use Strava to track their rides to prove it.


They don't all ride responsibly. This is all about crowded places with a bunch of fragile access rules vs. rural areas that anyone can ride anything on. If any rider, e-bike or not, chooses to ride metropolitan, crowded areas with hundreds of bikers and hikers, they should do it responsibly or they should be fined or banned. Doesn't matter what type of bike they are on. I'd report one riding irresponsibly as much as anyone else would. If they want to ride like a maniac, plenty of roads/trails to do that outside the city limits, where they only end up hurting themselves.


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

Oh, there is a paved hill here that would be fun (for me) on an ebike. I was pretty quick, broke 10 minutes on a couple occasions. That's the best I'll ever be. However, I'm not top 10.
It would be fun to see how fast I could get up on an ebike compared to my own power. I probably wouldn't even post it to Strava, just keep that one as a private activity.
Fun comparison to the descent with the ebike as well. I am top 10 on the descent. 
I would be faster downhill on the ebike too (once comfortable on it) as I could rebuild speed between turns. And the last straight section too. I can get 42-43 max (a few times only). I wonder how fast I could get to on the ebike. I pitch it into the last turn just under 40mph as I'm scrubbing speed for the turn. I'd have to also scrub speed, but brake sooner, obviously, if I were speeding more in advance.

Sounds really fun actually.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

richj8990 said:


> But for that 13 mph run, what level did you put the motor on to begin with? That's (most of) your answer.


100% power of course. There would be no point in me saying I could not go over 13mph if I was not using the max power of the bike.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

richj8990 said:


> Topic two: I rode up a paved hill at max power, at that time 750W, logged it as an e-bike ride of course. Some other person on an e-bike rode up it slower. Two riders, I was faster, I got the KOM. Pffft. Total joke. Maybe they had a 250W bike, does that mean I deserve a KOM? Of course not. Sorry everyone, pavement e-KOM's are ridiculous, no convincing me otherwise.


Yes, you do deserve the KOM, because if someone else wanted to beat your KOM they should run their bike at max power also. And also step on the cranks hard and get their heart rate up to 180 to add another 300 of their watts onto the 750 of the bike's watts for 1050 total. And use racing techniques of braking just before each turn and not during the turn and pulling out of the turn hard on the pedals. In becomes more of a contest of mental skill than simply who is strongest, a little more like motorcycle racing - though still mostly like bike racing.

Next you will tell me that there is no such thing as winning a motocross race because "What if a 250cc Kawasaki is more powerful than a 250cc Honda." Well, if true, that is their problem for using the Honda.

Or maybe Miata club-sport racing is not real and the winner didn't really win anything.

With eMTB KOM, anything is fair as long as it is not over the legal limit of power.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

100% throttle - That is the way to go!



rsilvers said:


> 100% power of course. There would be no point in me saying I could not go over 13mph if I was not using the max power of the bike.


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## dpdsurf (Jan 19, 2004)

It's like saying motorcycles or race cars shouldn't track lap times. I like tracking my descent times on my favorites.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

There should then be yet another category of ebike class.
Which is, who can do the route in the fastest time...... following the law of course.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

dpdsurf said:


> It's like saying motorcycles or race cars shouldn't track lap times.


But no one is saying race cars should be classed as bicycles.


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## Tristan Wolf (Oct 21, 2019)

Why not as long as they have their own category, and ride only on trails that are e-bike welcoming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Mr Pig said:


> But no one is saying race cars should be classed as bicycles.


stop calling my moped a motorcycle..


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

I would think that most people would welcome this so that precious Strava standings would not be taken by E-bikers. 

It's not like E-bikers are not going to use Strava.

And despite all of the haters, E-bikes are not going away, and they will be granted more access as life goes on.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

mlx john said:


> I would think that most people would welcome this so that precious Strava standings would not be taken by E-bikers.
> 
> It's not like E-bikers are not going to use Strava.
> 
> And despite all of the haters, E-bikes are not going away, and they will be granted more access as life goes on.


I agree. Strava should be more proactive and make it easier and more clear for e-bike riders to choose the right category. Also maybe introduce new features like copy/paste segments for e-bikes.


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

I wish Strava had a motorcycle category.

I was flagged for riding my road bike (motorcycle) on a road that cyclists climb. Before I could set the activity away from 'bike', I was flagged.

Also, I ride dirt bike at the OHV park which is becoming more popular by MTB riders.
In the past year there are a lot of segments from dirt bike riders....I've ridden some on both MTB and dirt bike, as have many of them. It's confusing to look at segment times that are by a motorcycle when I logged a bicycle ride.
I've made personal segments so I can track my own dirt bike times but all of a sudden there are several segments similar to my private one. I log them as "virtual ride" and the segments are only available for that activity. 

Anyway, there are so many categories but a few that are missing that should be there. 
Weight training and Yoga seem to be 2 categories that are difficult to log as a Strava activity, but not useless. Motorcycling could be a category like with Garmin.


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## TheBikeStore (Aug 27, 2017)

Forest Rider said:


> Anyway, there are so many categories but a few that are missing that should be there.
> Weight training and Yoga seem to be 2 categories that are difficult to log as a Strava activity, but not useless. Motorcycling could be a category like with Garmin.


Here is the full activity type list:

Ride
Run
Swim
Walk
Hike
Alpine Ski
Backcountry Ski
Canoe
Crossfit
E-Bike Ride
Elliptical
Handcycle
Ice Skate
Inline Skate
Kayak
Kitesurf Session
Nordic Ski
Rock Climb
Roller Ski
Row
Snowboard
Snowshoe
Stair Stepper
Stand Up Paddle
Surf
Virtual Ride
Virtual Run
Weight Training
Windsurf Session
Wheelchair
Workout
Yoga


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Forest Rider said:


> I wish Strava had a motorcycle category.
> 
> I was flagged for riding my road bike (motorcycle) on a road that cyclists climb. Before I could set the activity away from 'bike', I was flagged.


wait, what?

You run strava while riding a full sized ICE Motorcycle? What exactly would be the point in doing that? I ride a motorcycle to work every single day, there is no physical exercise benefit to doing that, so if I was just looking to track how fast I am on a certain mountain road segment I would look into GPS apps designed for race track timing, not Strava.....


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

TheBikeStore said:


> Here is the full activity type list:
> 
> Ride
> Run
> ...


Now that they track alpine skiing, it's really stupid that they don't support lift-served MTB. I use Strava to for basic fitness tracking and track hours/miles on my gear, so I want those miles included and I don't want to pad my climbing stats with lift runs. But recording each run separately is dumb.


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

Klurejr said:


> wait, what?
> 
> You run strava while riding a full sized ICE Motorcycle? What exactly would be the point in doing that? I ride a motorcycle to work every single day, there is no physical exercise benefit to doing that, so if I was just looking to track how fast I am on a certain mountain road segment I would look into GPS apps designed for race track timing, not Strava.....


Why I like to record dirt bike activity, etc:
1) GPS tracking so I can see on a map
2) hours of activity
3) miles of activity
4) amount of rides over a given period of time

I also use Garmin. Is it:
1) Wrong to use Strava for tracking
2) Wrong to use both GPS devices?

I'm not out to destroy other peoples activities. That is why I log the dirt bike as virtual ride -it won't add to a leader board.

I've also recorded myself driving. Nice to see the dirt road I drove on from the main highway to I can tell where it was when looking at the map. And maybe even to help me navigate back to that location (as long as I have service to see the earlier recorded track).

Is it any worse to track motorcycle riding or driving than it is to track a weight workout. How does one benefit from logging 15 bench presses to Strava any more than my GPS route showing I added 34 miles to my drive train?

Any driving routes have been saved as private which of course will not affect the leaderboards either.
Should all be safe and only benefit me because of the items I listed above.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Klurejr said:


> wait, what?
> 
> You run strava while riding a full sized ICE Motorcycle? What exactly would be the point in doing that? I ride a motorcycle to work every single day, there is no physical exercise benefit to doing that, so if I was just looking to track how fast I am on a certain mountain road segment I would look into GPS apps designed for race track timing, not Strava.....


Just because it has a motor doesn't mean you are not getting a super tough workout. Have you ever ridden a dirtbike offroad? I have and it is pretty darn tough on the body and cardio system. I always came back at least 5 to 10lbs lighter than when I started. I certainly remembered breathing as hard as some of my toughest rides on an mtb.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Forest Rider said:


> Why I like to record dirt bike activity, etc:
> 1) GPS tracking so I can see on a map
> 2) hours of activity
> 3) miles of activity
> ...


I understand wanting to keep a dirt route, dirt bikes can offer a pretty hefty workout, but is there not a better way to track that instead of Strava? I see no point is using strava for street use, which is exactly what you said you were doing in the post I quoted. I know for a fact there are better timing and tracking apps for street bike track sessions, those could also be used for canyon runs I guess too..... but then if you are pushing the limits on public roads you are moving into dangerous territory.



mtbbiker said:


> Just because it has a motor doesn't mean you are not getting a super tough workout. Have you ever ridden a dirtbike offroad? I have and it is pretty darn tough on the body and cardio system. I always came back at least 5 to 10lbs lighter than when I started. I certainly remembered breathing as hard as some of my toughest rides on an mtb.


Go back up and look at what I was responding to, he mentioned riding his Road Motorcycle on a Paved Road, not Dirt Bikes on single track. I started riding Dirtbikes when I was 14 and know all about the physical workout involved. I am 41 and have been riding motorcycles most of my life and can say with confidence that riding a street bike is not a workout unless one is doing a track day on a sport bike or putting in some very aggressive and dangerous street riding.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

scatterbrained said:


> There are some steep, technical climbs here that are very tough to clean on a regular bike. To master one of those climbs, only to turn around and see someone on an e-bike strolling blithely up the hill at twice the speed you were doing. Yeah, we need the e-bike category. Granted, that assumes the people who are riding e-bikes are labeling the ride as "e-bike". . .


Why does it matter what other people can do?

I gotta admit, I find this kind of thinking very disturbing.

Folks gotta learn how to live without comparing yourself to others, that's not a healthy way to view the world.

Strava for yoga, that'd be fun, try measuring how at peace you are


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> Why does it matter what other people can do?


It matters when they want to share the same trail at higher speed with greater weight and less experience. Yet be classed as equal.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Mr Pig said:


> It matters when they want to share the same trail at higher speed with greater weight and less experience. Yet be classed as equal.


When does it stop mattering? How about if they are more experienced, like for instance, a rider who rides human powered (for the last 30 yrs)and class 1 e-bikes? What if I'm riding at the same speed, but with less effort?

How does one qualify these possible differences?

What if the bike is only 10 pounds heavier? At what point does weight matter?


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

mlx john said:


> How does one qualify these possible differences?


Motor.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Got it. Motor means less experienced, and I can't possibly ride at similar speed as a non-ebiker.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Motor means more experienced.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Gutch said:


> Motor means more experienced.


At overeating?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> At over riding?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Fixed it for you.


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## Tristan Wolf (Oct 21, 2019)

I wish people were less judge-mental. I personally never rode e-bike. And I never used Strava.
But I really have nothing against people using both at the same time.
Yes, I also understand pride some people take in their Strava times on normal bikes. And cheers to them. It is just that I think that you can be proud of your achievements no matter what other people do. You know that you are the one who put effort.
Cheers and happy trails to everyone!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Motor means smarter
Motor means faster
Motor means cooler



Gutch said:


> Motor means more experienced.


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

I like making boat motor sounds with my mouth.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

What about a Strava section for cars?


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

I'm totally putting this on my new Hightower!


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Be cool to go to a bike park with one of those on. Did see a guy with a ghetto blaster strapped to his back a few years ago, turned up really loud. Just made you want to punch him.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

That is the last thing you need on an ebike.

Its like the people who buy the enduro ebike frames, you have seen them. They are custom built to place a big square battery in the triangle. I try to make my ebikes look like a bicycle, even hiding the rear hub motor behind some rear rack pannier bags. Then getting the smallest controller, like the Baserunner or Phaserunner of course you can make it legal for any juristiction by using a Cycle Analyst.

I've personally have had no problems as I ride with common sense and I am courteous to other users. Usually I follow in behind some Lycra smashing the pedals.

The Strava would have subset of human decency who cheat to build their ego.

What I'd be more interested in is a mapping system that is cheap and super easy to use. Weigh points, speed, elevation. I am not into cadence yet, most ebikers arent.



mlx john said:


> I'm totally putting this on my new Hightower!


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Mr Pig said:


> What about a Strava section for cars?


how do you think i steal all the KOM's?


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

I had to do a quick search to find out what K.O.M. meant, which is King of Mountain.
No one would ever know 















.WestCoastHucker. said:


> how do you think i steal all the KOM's?


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Gutch said:


> I am 100% behind class 1 pedelecs, but find this disturbing. Isn't this like being valedictorian in summer school? Do you think they added it to try and keep it pure? As much as I enjoy ebikes, I can't get behind this. What do you think?


Yeah, I know it's a late response, but I've been busy riding for the last year or so...

It totally makes sense. While some people laze along on eMTBs, some of us actually pedal hard too. And it also helps me track downhill segments on days that I ride the eMTB separately from the days I ride the Nomad or the Hightower.

Problem is that segments defined for MTBs don't show up on the eBike analytics. A couple of us wrote a little app that copies segments from MTB to eMTB which helps a lot.


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