# Doctor bills - are they too excessive?!



## ivanovnv (May 1, 2012)

I am sure most of you have had broken bones, surgeries, casting, etc., but here is my question: how expensive were they for what you had done?

I think my doctor is overcharging my insurance company and I would like to make sure this is what's really happening. Last year I broke my tibia, but the bone held together. I did not need a surgery, no treatment, just cast. He charged my insurance company $7,000 for just the x-ray and for placing the cast on. Every 3 weeks he called me for a visit and he was charging for the x-rays and the visit. My bills from that breakage were in excess of $15,000

This year I broke my wrist. His x-ray, which was done the same day of the injury, revealed no fractureI, but he suggested an MRI just in case. I had no pain and no swelling, so for 4 weeks, while waiting for the MRI appointment, I was riding with no problems. Finally I had a call for the MRI, which I did. He knew the results the following day, but never called me. He waited 9 days for a scheduled appointment we had to tell me that I have a fracture. Again, I went to his office where he gave me a wrist immobilizer and did no treatment. He charged my insurance company $4,275, where the 275 was for the x-ray and the 4,000 was for treating my fracture. He did nothing!!!! He just gave me a wrist immobilizer.

I've had numerous emails going back and forth with his office where I expressed my disappointment over the fact that he did not notify me of the fracture as soon as he knew after the MRI. Instead of him feeling guilty, he continues to overcharge me.

Any suggestions?


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## dickeydoo (May 11, 2007)

It has always bugged me too. I am switching dentists because of that. Some Drs will lower their pricing if you tell them you are uninsured. When there is an ins company involved its all out gouging. I don't think there is a whole lot you can do.

My Dr wanted to send me for a 1500 dollar MRI. My ins would'nt cover it so I looked around and found one for about 300 or so that I paid myself.


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## ivanovnv (May 1, 2012)

All the MRIs I had ever done (to many to count) have always been in the $1,500 range. Thank God I am insured. With the wrist, it is officially my 39th broken bone.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

Remember......what your doctor charges and what they ACTUALLY get paid ate 2 different numbers. 

They do overcharge.....but that is because they know the the insurance company is is gonna low ball them. 

My OS charged nearly $15k for my broken ankle surgery.....insurance paid out just under $8k.


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## ivanovnv (May 1, 2012)

They charged you 15K for a surgery, which is acceptable. I was charged 15K for nothing. I had no surgery, no treatment, just cast. I know insurance will not pay them 100%, but still, I think they are overcharging.


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## mjh68 (Jun 5, 2012)

Wow..I am emergency room rn and my wife works for an orthopedic surgeon . We both think that is excessive...the 1500 dollar MRI is pretty average though.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2


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## ivanovnv (May 1, 2012)

The treatment, as he called it, was not even done in the ER. It was done in his office and he did nothing. He just made me turn my wrist up and down, checked my range of motion, and gave me a wrist immobilizer. Then boom, charges my insurance and calls it on the bill - treatment for 4,000.


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

ivanovnv said:


> I am sure most of you have had broken bones, surgeries, casting, etc., but here is my question: how expensive were they for what you had done?
> 
> I think my doctor is overcharging my insurance company and I would like to make sure this is what's really happening. Last year I broke my tibia, but the bone held together. I did not need a surgery, no treatment, just cast. He charged my insurance company $7,000 for just the x-ray and for placing the cast on. Every 3 weeks he called me for a visit and he was charging for the x-rays and the visit. My bills from that breakage were in excess of $15,000
> 
> ...


Well, just look at the comparisons, and then tell US what you would suggest. Compared to ANY other First-World, civilized nation, your bill would be outrageous. And it's not like you are paying X-times more than anywhere else in the world for X-times more excellent care. That contention is pure BS.

For that matter, look at mortality and longevity and infant mortality stats that compare the U.S. with the other civilized, industrialized, first-world nations. 
We ain't even anywheres NEAR the top in any of those categories.


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## RideMore56 (Jun 27, 2011)

I would ask for the radiologists written report and see if you really have a fracture.


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## giantone (Dec 18, 2011)

No they are charging the usual and customary amount. The usual and customary amount is what is much greater than what it_ should _be. A few things inflate the cost such as regulation and the legal system. If anything our country need radical legal system overhaul (as well as healthcare reform).


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## knoob (Mar 17, 2010)

I had a Tibal Plateau Fracture that required external fixation for twelve days,to allow the swelling to go down. Then open reduction,medial,lateral internal fixation with hardware removal.i.e. 2 plates and fourteen screws during a 6 hour surgery to put it back together.
Cost between E.R. visit to 2nd surgery was just short of $100,000. Insurance paid just over $32,000.
My out of pocket was about $800.

So what's billed and paid are not always the same because the insurance( UHG )and their providers have "contract pricing" agreements.

I ended up total out of pocket $3,500ish. On billed services that were almost $160,000

All those years of paying in and not needing to use the coverage, was more than made up for in this one rather mundane crash.

So yes the whole system need an overhaul,but I am thankful that it worked for me,this time!


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## JointTech (Aug 26, 2011)

Have you seen a doctors Insurance bill? And as has said before the insurance company is going to rape the doctor so they rape back (its not rape-rape).
I had a flood in my house and office. Same thing. At home with no insurance the bill looked reasonable. At the office they billed for a ton of stuff that wasnt done and materials that werent used because insurance paid them about half the claim which with their padding came out to be the amount they need to run a business.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

ivanovnv said:


> All the MRIs I had ever done (to many to count) have always been in the $1,500 range. Thank God I am insured. With the wrist, it is officially my 39th broken bone.


Wow, in Australia if the MRI is ordered by a specialist the cost is $0.00. We are certainly lucky.


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## LIIT (Sep 8, 2008)

Short story. One surgeon quoted me 20-30k and left me in pain. Another one quoted me $500 with a half cast and gave me a bottle of perc's to ease the pain...I DO NOT have insurance.  This was for a broken pinky finger -displaced fracture.


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## ivanovnv (May 1, 2012)

You are lucky you did not need a surgery and even luckier for meeting an honest doctor


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## MTBCanuck (May 19, 2011)

JointTech nailed it. The health care industry in the US has inflated fees to patients by 400-500% because of liability insurance. The legal system has "empowered" the patient with the right to litigation when he feels disserviced by his clinician and as a consequence, the herd suffers because of it, and everyone involved in the transactions prosper. I am a veterinarian and we are a cash industry. A surgery that would cost a $100,000 if done on a person would ring in around $3500-$5000 in veterinary patients, but that's because animals are considered property so damages claims cannot exceed the market value of the animal (rarely over $3k in small animals but much more in equine). And go figure, our clients seem to get along just fine without being able to sue us left and right for the (common and predictable) misfortunes that come with practicing medicine- things do not a simply cannot always go well.


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## 1niceride (Jan 30, 2004)

Plus colleges are taking more of the "value added" benefit from education away from the professional. Like in college costs going up at a multiple of inflation.


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## DWill (Aug 24, 2010)

MTBCanuck said:


> JointTech nailed it. The health care industry in the US has inflated fees to patients by 400-500% because of liability insurance. The legal system has "empowered" the patient with the right to litigation when he feels disserviced by his clinician and as a consequence, the herd suffers because of it, and everyone involved in the transactions prosper. I am a veterinarian and we are a cash industry. A surgery that would cost a $100,000 if done on a person would ring in around $3500-$5000 in veterinary patients, but that's because animals are considered property so damages claims cannot exceed the market value of the animal (rarely over $3k in small animals but much more in equine). And go figure, our clients seem to get along just fine without being able to sue us left and right for the (common and predictable) misfortunes that come with practicing medicine- things do not a simply cannot always go well.


Really, I have a Ridgeback the cracked a canine. At least that's what the vet said when he broke his canine cleaning his teeth, that is that it was cracked before and broke when he cleaned that tooth.

Long story short, while I had my doubts that the tooth was cracked before the vet broke it; I opted to see the dental specialist at UC Davis vet hospital in Dan Diego and have a root canal done on my dogs tooth.

Total cost about $3k without a crown on the tooth.

That same root canal with a crown on a person cost me about 900.00 and I thought that was expensive.

So tell me again how veterinary car is less than than human health care&#8230;

Not that it matters, ill happily pay whatever it cost to keep my dog healthy and Alive as long as possible, I can't imagine not having him. But vet care is quite possibly one of the most over priced parts of pet ownership.


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## MTBCanuck (May 19, 2011)

DWill, it would be redundant for me to argue with you based on apples to oranges comparisons. Your dog required general anesthesia (making up the bulk of the cost) while you likely just had a local block and mild systemic sedation (if any) not to mention you possibly only saw the deductable amount, not the amount billed by the dentist. If you tool a price list for comparable services on an apples to apples basis there would be no comparison in the fees (veterinary much lower). I understand that a big ticket item like a root canal can sqew your perception toward vet care being overpriced but if you consider the average veterinarian only makes about $50K after going through 4 years of professional education (lowest income for a medical professional) you might be less compelled to think prices are _unfair_, even if individual speciality services (ir root canal in canines) are still "high" (ie in the consumer good/service category such as box of macaroni and cheese vs. ferrari).

Regardless, glad to hear you go to great lengths to look after your pooch :thumbsup:


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## ejason (May 24, 2012)

Yes, they charge too much. For a bad dislocated finger and a small break (two small chips under finger) they charger me 3900 to set the finger, three X-rays, and two finger splints. They had to take three X-rays because they didn't set it right the first pull. (still no movement) And i told them this but sent me for an X-ray anyway. Its been one month and i can now at least bend it to a 90 degree angle.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

To the OP, thanks for posting your experiences. I think this just highlights what's wrong with the medical care system here in the US. The sad fact is that Obamamama Care will only drive up medical costs and insurance costs (why do you think the insurance cos supported it), with the tax payers, (yes, that 10% of the population) footing the bill. 
Special Interest is alive and well, at least for the foreseeable future. <rant off>


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

Well this is UNBELIEVABLE stuff, the average person here like me doesnt pay a cent to see a doctor, X-rays are free, if i break my arm its free to fix it, we have medicare that pays for all that, i just show them my card and thats the last thing i hear of it, yes we pay for it in out taxes but after reading these stories im damn happy about that.
The only thing thats not free is dental work.
Whats going on over there?


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Americans are scared of the word "socialism", even if it saves them and the govt money.


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## Wild Wassa (Jun 4, 2009)

Six weeks ago, I was bitten by an Eastern Brown Snake. They are pretty nasty snakes. They're the second most deadly snake on the planet and one ounce of their venom is enough to kill 12,000 adult males, supposedly.

Total cost to me for health care here in Australia has been $0.00. The Ambulance Service charge for taking me to hospital, for 53 kilometres or 33 miles was $960. The New South Wale's government paid a subsidy of $471 toward the bill, so the balance of $489, is paid by having private ambulance coverage, which is a family cover, costing $86 for the year.

Self portrait with pressure bandage, tightly put on to slow the flow of venom.










Australia has a first world *SOCIALIST* health care system, for when the sh*t's hitting the fan. When the fan isn't on, our system is probably like everywhere else. People waiting long periods for treatment or the well insured paying big bucks, for a speedier service delivery.

Since mid November three people have died from being bitten by Eastern Brown Snakes in Queensland. Luckily, I was bitten in New South Wales.

Warren.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Another member was bitten by a rattlesnake and paid around $100,000 for the dr visit.


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

Wild Wassa said:


> Six weeks ago, I was bitten by an Eastern Brown Snake. They are pretty nasty snakes. They're the second most deadly snake on the planet and one ounce of their venom is enough to kill 12,000 adult males.
> 
> *Total cost to me for health care here in Australia has been $0.00.*
> 
> ...


Thanks, mate. Rub it in. More and more of us in the U.S. are realizing that there are some serious conflict of interest and ethical problems with letting medicine and healthcare be a completely free-market, for-profit enterprise. 
Are we the only First-world nation left where this is how medicine is done?


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

brad72 said:


> Wow, in Australia if the MRI is ordered by a specialist the cost is $0.00. We are certainly lucky.


Wow. this thread is beginning to make me really despise Australians a LOT!


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

One Pivot said:


> Another member was bitten by a rattlesnake and paid around $100,000 for the dr visit.


Ouch! Man, that is crazy.


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## Wild Wassa (Jun 4, 2009)

Ray, G'day. Yes we Aussies can be very despicable, I agree ... but please don't think that we are being smug.

I can't came to grips with why the cost of medical treatment is so high in the US, be it from litigation or greed. The state of New South Wales is the most litigious place on earth and health care is practically free for non-elective treatments and surgery. For many, basic GP consultations are free and treatment in casualty departments of public hospitals is also free. Non-elective surgery in public hospitals is free. Referrals for tests and treatments are free.

In the US, it doesn't appear as though a person pays for a medical treatment or a health service, but is held to ransom to be kept alive. I thought that holding people to ransom was illegal? I wouldn't imagine that US citizens get different or better medical treatment than we do in Oz. I'd imagine that medical procedures, patient care and the drugs given are identical.

In Australia if the conservative politicians dismantled our public health care system, which they at times threaten to do, there would be civil disobedience, of the likes not seen before in Australia.

Affordable quality health care is a human right ... not just a privilege within the domain of the wealthy. Good luck, take care or ... _rider heal thy self._

Warren.


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## Gundam168 (Dec 19, 2012)

Here in the Philippines, we have a socialized pricing scheme in determining doctor's fees and hospital bills. The doctor's fees and other hospital bills like OR, DR etc depends on what category your room is. If you're admitted in the ward you pay lower than semi-private, private or suite room. And not surprisingly, how the doctor relates to you is also dependent on your accommodations. When my brother was admitted for an appendectomy, he was admitted initially in a private room because the admissions clerk of the hospital said there were no more beds in the ward. During his stay in the private room the doctor was fawning on him and really caring and concerned. When he transferred to the ward after surgery, the same doctor was suddenly cold, patronizing and dismissive.


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

Here in the States medical coverage has become a joke. Insurance has become so expensive I can almost not afford it. If our family did have a medical expense it would be at minimum $10K out of pocket covering the deductible then we are still on the hook for 20%. So in effect unless one of us gets very sick requiring massive care our expensive insurance is effectively worthless. Honestly this is sad. Today I'm working as a professional having to buy my own insurance after taxes yet 20 years ago working part time I had better insurance and all provided through the employer. 

I have a friend who is a doctor and pays nearly $60K in malpractice insurance alone. His fees not only need to cover this fee, but also cover paying his staff and other expenses. One of his largest expenses is dealing with recovering costs from the patients insurance companies. 

If I could just bypass paying insurance and pay the doctor directly for a reasonable yearly fee covering any and all medical needs for the family that would be ideal. 

In the end I think the entire medical system we have today needs to be restructured providing meaningful for an affordable cost. Till then our medical industry is broken. Way I feel about it is that medical coverage should be a basic human right, not an economic discriminator.


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## mtb101 (Jan 7, 2009)

what I don't understand is how much does a war in Afghanistan for example cost per day to run? Yet your politicians seem so resistant to a free (gov subsidized?) health care system (a safety net for the sick, unfortunate - or the average Joe), yet so supportive of war type spending, how can a society founded on what seems to be worthy humanitarian values be so callous on its own people?

I've heard stories of people bankrupted by treatment or having to continue to work whilst having Chemo, what's going on in the land of milk and honey?


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## BoiseBoy (Mar 1, 2006)

ejason said:


> Yes, they charge too much. For a bad dislocated finger and a small break (two small chips under finger) they charger me 3900 to set the finger, three X-rays, and two finger splints. They had to take three X-rays because they didn't set it right the first pull. (still no movement) And i told them this but sent me for an X-ray anyway. Its been one month and i can now at least bend it to a 90 degree angle.


How much might that finger be worth to you if a medical professional had not helped you and you ended up losing its function?

I would imagine that you would pay much more than your listed price!

If you compare the medical bill of a professional with upwards to 10 years of higher education to that of a plumber with a GED, then you would understand. Most gasp when looking at the bill for fixing a toilet and your body is much more complicated and valuable.


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## BoiseBoy (Mar 1, 2006)

Tone's said:


> Well this is UNBELIEVABLE stuff, the average person here like me doesnt pay a cent to see a doctor, X-rays are free, if i break my arm its free to fix it, we have medicare that pays for all that, i just show them my card and thats the last thing i hear of it, yes we pay for it in out taxes but after reading these stories im damn happy about that.
> The only thing thats not free is dental work.
> Whats going on over there?


-Edited-

I have to apologize to you as I now notice that you live in Australia. My words are meant for us Americans and our nice little situation.

The problem is in the fact that you paid for your parent's Medicare and we are paying for your coverage as prices increase exponentially, each year. Unfortuantely, after I have paid for yours, there will be nothing in the pot for those of my generation.

Enjoy your "free" care while it lasts!
If you were to copare what you have paid in to what you have paid, you are making out like a bandit, my friend!


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

..edit..


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

Simplemind said:


> To the OP, thanks for posting your experiences. I think this just highlights what's wrong with the medical care system here in the US. The sad fact is that Obamamama Care will only drive up medical costs and insurance costs (why do you think the insurance cos supported it), with the tax payers, (yes, that 10% of the population) footing the bill.
> Special Interest is alive and well, at least for the foreseeable future. <rant off>


Once it's fully implemented, and the non-contributing start get financially screwed, the government and insurance companies can really start to screw us hard.
No getting away, and 10,000 extra IRS agents to enforce their rules 


One Pivot said:


> Americans are scared of the word "socialism", even if it saves them and the govt money.


How so ?
All estimates, as they relate to this subject, claim drastic increases in cost for everyone.

*OP,*
Not sure what to say ... The system is not perfect, but the approach our government has taken, only ensures that it will get worse.

There's a lot of reset buttons that need to be pushed :devil:


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## wallstreet (Jul 27, 2012)

We pay for everything, but we all by law have to have a basic health insurance. It's the Swiss life. Low taxes, so nobody has an excuse not to pay for insurances. I have had the best surgeons and doctors so I can't complain.


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## ejason (May 24, 2012)

BoiseBoy said:


> How much might that finger be worth to you if a medical professional had not helped you and you ended up losing its function?
> 
> I would imagine that you would pay much more than your listed price!
> 
> If you compare the medical bill of a professional with upwards to 10 years of higher education to that of a plumber with a GED, then you would understand. Most gasp when looking at the bill for fixing a toilet and your body is much more complicated and valuable.


Boiseboy, Of coarse i think my finger is worth $$$. But i had the same thing happen just a few years ago and the bill was 400.00. I had a **** PA that took care of me. After the first time she tried to straighten the finger, i told her it needed one more adjustment. (the finger was still locked in place). But send me for more X-rays anyway and then of coarse had to adjust the finger. I do know the Med. field a bit and it was just a jammed finger!!!!! If it was a real break or something a bit more serious i could understand a little more.


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## cantrebolls (Jan 7, 2013)

yeah,agree it,No they are charging the usual and customary amount.


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

Wild Wassa said:


> Six weeks ago, I was bitten by an Eastern Brown Snake. They are pretty nasty snakes. They're the second most deadly snake on the planet and one ounce of their venom is enough to kill 12,000 adult males, supposedly.
> 
> Total cost to me for health care here in Australia has been $0.00. The Ambulance Service charge for taking me to hospital, for 53 kilometres or 33 miles was $960. The New South Wale's government paid a subsidy of $471 toward the bill, so the balance of $489, is paid by having private ambulance coverage, which is a family cover, costing $86 for the year.
> 
> ...


Wild

Where were you when you got bitten, and how did you contact the ambulance? Most of your rides seem to be solo affairs in remote locations.

Tim


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## Wild Wassa (Jun 4, 2009)

Wombat, G'day. I was on the Queanbeyan River Fire Trail above the Eastern Foreshores of Googong Dam. The closest town was Queanbeyan, but the ambulance took me to Canberra. 

Contact was by mobile. For the deep sh*t out in the bush, I have Telstra's Next-G Rural Coverage with a 5m extension cord and 5db high gain antenna. Where I was any old mobile would have done because I was high above the dam.

Warren.


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## GraemeTee (Jan 24, 2013)

I remember reading a similar thread on a US motorbike forum a couple of years ago where a guy had binned the bike on a trackday and fractured his femur. His total repair bill excluding the bike was something crazy like $150,000 :eekster:

It's when I read threads like this that I realise we're really lucky here in the UK with our healthcare system. All free at the point of delivery. As much as people over here complain about it, it's pretty good and it works!


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

*No one wants to pay*

Our problem is no one wants to pay their fair share in taxes to fund a socialized healthcare system in this country. The ones who do not wish to work have the best healthcare program. I have patients who are on Medicaid who do nothing but drink and party all day and they get a check from the government and the government buys their food and they have better insurance thanI do. No cost to go to a doctor. No co pays. No cost for medications. No waiting periods for treatment.

If everyone paid taxes (many in our country almost half the population does not pay federal income tax. They actually get tax refunds each year) so we can't fund socialized healthcare.

If the people getting a 2-5k tax refund each year took that money they could buy a Cadillac health plan each year, but they'd rather buy useless junk like LCD tv,s.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

DrNickels said:


> Our problem is no one wants to pay their fair share in taxes to fund a socialized healthcare system in this country. The ones who do not wish to work have the best healthcare program. I have patients who are on Medicaid who do nothing but drink and party all day and they get a check from the government and the government buys their food and they have better insurance thanI do. No cost to go to a doctor. No co pays. No cost for medications. No waiting periods for treatment.
> 
> If everyone paid taxes (many in our country almost half the population does not pay federal income tax. They actually get tax refunds each year) so we can't fund socialized healthcare.
> 
> If the people getting a 2-5k tax refund each year took that money they could buy a Cadillac health plan each year, but they'd rather buy useless junk like LCD tv,s.


I'm with you Doc!:thumbsup:


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## bikeabuser (Aug 12, 2012)

DrNickels said:


> Our problem is no one wants to pay their fair share in taxes to fund a socialized healthcare system in this country. The ones who do not wish to work have the best healthcare program. I have patients who are on Medicaid who do nothing but drink and party all day and they get a check from the government and the government buys their food and they have better insurance thanI do. No cost to go to a doctor. No co pays. No cost for medications. No waiting periods for treatment.
> 
> If everyone paid taxes (many in our country almost half the population does not pay federal income tax. They actually get tax refunds each year) so we can't fund socialized healthcare.
> 
> If the people getting a 2-5k tax refund each year took that money they could buy a Cadillac health plan each year, but they'd rather buy useless junk like LCD tv,s.


And bikes :devil:


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

*Haha*



bikeabuser said:


> And bikes :devil:


Actually I would be more forgiving in that one. I mean after all a bike could be seen as a mods of transportation to a job or at the least a way to exercise and remain physically fit (something many Medicaid patients are not). I could almost give them a pass on that one. At least they wouldn't be sitting around eating McDonald's and watching their cable tv.


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## 1niceride (Jan 30, 2004)

Here is an issue I ran into with my health insurance in NY. Qualified for family health plus. I made aprox $21,000 in 2010, 3 dependents. Like the doc said, no cost maybe $5 copay. 2011 I fell $900.00 over the limit. The next program is healthy newyork at $500.00/month. Nothing in between. So I have an incentive not to make too much money just so I can afford health insurance. There are no living wage jobs for us tv watchin macdonalds eatin people anymore. Unless one makes over $35,000 yr or more one cannot afford insurance. And thats iffy...


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

1niceride said:


> Here is an issue I ran into with my health insurance in NY. Qualified for family health plus. I made aprox $21,000 in 2010, 3 dependents. Like the doc said, no cost maybe $5 copay. 2011 I fell $900.00 over the limit. The next program is healthy newyork at $500.00/month. Nothing in between.* So I have an incentive not to make too much money just so I can afford health insurance.* There are no living wage jobs for us tv watchin macdonalds eatin people anymore. Unless one makes over $35,000 yr or more one cannot afford insurance. And thats iffy...


You have to love the "progressives" thought process. It's just insane.


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## 1niceride (Jan 30, 2004)

Please tell me the alternative..what would you do in my case? The incentive not to make too much means not making that $900.00 extra a year. By the time Dec rolls around I have to check my net income and modulate if I need to. My best year was $29,000 yr. I gross about $80,000 yr with 35,000 in materials. Gas at 9 miles/gal and pull off deductions for my net. Most of my customers are the lower 50% in income. I'm chief cook and bottle washer so I'm on the clock 12 hours a day, 24-7-360 on call. So double my hourly rate and work only for the wealthy? I betcha solo bike shops have it like this..don't know how they do it without the wifes income to subsidize.


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## Orthoguy (Dec 4, 2011)

DrNickels said:


> Our problem is no one wants to pay their fair share in taxes to fund a socialized healthcare system in this country. The ones who do not wish to work have the best healthcare program. I have patients who are on Medicaid who do nothing but drink and party all day and they get a check from the government and the government buys their food and they have better insurance thanI do. No cost to go to a doctor. No co pays. No cost for medications. No waiting periods for treatment.
> 
> If everyone paid taxes (many in our country almost half the population does not pay federal income tax. They actually get tax refunds each year) so we can't fund socialized healthcare.
> 
> If the people getting a 2-5k tax refund each year took that money they could buy a Cadillac health plan each year, but they'd rather buy useless junk like LCD tv,s.


I feel your pain brother. I had a patient come into my practice about 4 years ago with a cervical sprain. She was driving a Lexus SUV. Seems she was a "dancer" and while spinning on a pole upside down she slipped on the pole and pile drived herself into the floor. During her history she revealed that she made 3-5k a weekend and that she was able to have the rest of the week off. After getting her sorted out I over heard her giving my staff a hard time concerning paying a $5 Medicaid copay. So here is this person making 200k+ a year on public healthcare which is worlds more inclusive than my family's insurance. Between abuse of the system and the ridiculousness of insurance companies I said the hell with it. I'm no longer in network with any insurance company and turned my practice into a cash based practice. Best professional decision I have ever made. Folks should be able to afford their healthcare. A service for a reasonable price.


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## buryurfear14 (Mar 6, 2009)

I have not read every post here. However, my opinion; No they are not excessive. Do I hate how much it costs? yes. But the service they provide is something we take for granted. It is absolutely amazing that someone like Trey Canard can be back on top of a motorcycle AND competing at a pro level for wins. The fact that a doctor was able to go in and use my own muscle to reconstruct my ACL and fix my meniscus root tear is insane. Its a whoooole ton of money, but they deserve it, IMO.

Also, the first doctor I went to for me knee said an x-ray and exam was enough. Determined that I MIGHT have a meniscus tear but not to worry about it. He said I could get an MRI, but why spend the money if he's pretty sure there is no ACL damage he said. Well, a few months later I got a second opinion since my knee was still unstable during heavy activity. The doctor did an exam and said "full ACL tear" in less than 2 minutes prior to an x-ray or MRI. This doctor was about 15 years younger as well. MRI confirmed full ACL, meniscus tear, and possible meniscus root tear (turned out to be true upon surgery). So its hard to say! In the OP's case, it sounded excessive. In my case, it wasn't excessive enough. No one knows your body like you, do what you feel is necessary.


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## ParrotHead87 (Feb 14, 2013)

I too have not read all the posts in this thread.

I am insured through work, and by work I mean the company my dad owns. As a small business owner he constantly complains about how much health insurance costs, and seeing some different bills I agree with him.

I complain quite a bit when I have to go to my family physician, which is not often unless I can not crawl. The CoPay is not bad, but not having prescription is terrible. Always try to get knock offs. I remember a few years ago paying 400 or 500 some for two things. Same with the dentist, eye doctor, etc.

If its comes to an extreme case where we land in the hospital, then we do alright. We have a certain deductible, which when you think about it is not that much. Looking at some former bills and seeing the charges as opposed to what I paid is not that crazy. Yes the bills are expensive, but with Inusrance it definitely works. I am thankful I do not have to try and provide my own insurance or pay directly out of pocket. 

Just always try and remember that it could be worse. I do complain going to a physician, but thankfully if, and I have been fortunate enough to have been, we go to the hospital we are fine. Just my two cents


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## wallstreet (Jul 27, 2012)

In Switzerland, I pay 387chf for private healthcare, I am under 40 and in usually good health. Franchise I pay first is 1,500 chf. It works well here. We have to pay 10% of each ailment when hospitalised, enployers pay by law for accident insurance. Everyone has to have health insurance by law. 💉Taking blood can cost upto $150 for a full blood works. I think we are lucky. I never felt confident with the UK system. We do not pay national health tax as a result and tax is very low. There is a short 2 year benefit system in Suisse and it's not cool to be unemployed. You just can't afford to have such a way of life as I found prevalent in the UK. Fortunately there are jobs. 

I have lived in the US too, I never quite understood the system and it was far more expensive for healthcare or so it seemed for a full family. However, I found everything affordable from houses and cars were soo much cheaper than Suisse. The size of the American economy makes it difficult to please all. Reverting to a socialised medical system like the UK is just not possible. 

I feel medicine and it's experts deserve their pay especially in the UK where they are paid less.


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