# Quality 8.4V 6800mAh 4 x NCR18650B Battery Pack at Kaidomain.com for reasonable price



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Guys I have very good news. Kaidomain has published avability of high capacity 68000mAh battery pack out of 4 Panasonic NCR18650B with 6A protection module. Price at the moment is very good $29.23.

So far I'm entitled to provide this information. I'm going to get sample for review, but it will take some time to get it. So far I have a lot of trust to the KD and have no reason not to beleive them. I hope it stays so.









Here is the link: *http://kaidomain.com/bike-lights-an...uality-Rechargeable-18650-Li-ion-Battery-Pack*

Discussion is wide open, but will reserve next post for reviewing purposes.

EDIT: Might be of some interest - 6 and 8 cell packs are in the production I've been told. Links to the products:

http://kaidomain.com/bike-lights-and-bike-accessories/battery-packs

EDIT 2: KD will try to make also 2 cell (2S1P) pack in the same style but with NCR18650GA 3500mAh / 10A cells. Will add link later if avalaible.

EDIT 3: (7th Dec 2015)
- 2 cell (2S1P) announced to be in the production. Currently it is without pouch, but they are working to get one
- 4 cell FLAT (2S2P) pack is also announced. Not much detail known yet.

EDIT 4: (21th Dec 2015)
- 2 cell (2S1P) pack with:
10 cm cable: http://kaidomain.com/bike-lights-an...ble-18650-Li-ion-Battery-Pack-with-10cm-Cable
60 cm cable: http://kaidomain.com/bike-lights-an...8650GA-Rechargeable-18650-Li-ion-Battery-Pack

EDIT 5: (28th Dec 2015)
- 4 cell (2S2P) FLAT pack:
http://kaidomain.com/bike-lights-an...18650B-Rechargeable-18650-Li-ion-Battery-Pack

EDIT 6: (2nd Dec 2016)
20 AWG Extension cable:
http://kaidomain.com/Electrical-or-...-to-Female-20AWG-Extension-Cable-100cm-Length

Edit 2nd Aug 2016: Corrected product links
Edit 2nd Dec 2016: Added link for extension cable
Edit 1st Aug 2018: Corrected product links on a new KD server
Edit 17th Oct 2018. Again corrrected some links


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

*Reserved for review.*

Reserved for review.

Some crumbs in advance (needs to be verified):

1. They have listened and used 20AWG cables. Very good! Checked -> TRUE.
2. 6A protection module. Should cover most of our needs, even for hi powered lights. Unchecked yet.
3. Ruberized shell. Checked -> TRUE
4. Nice pouch
5. Proven high capacity about 6400mAh.

Discharging graph at 2A (1A per cell). I've got nice capacity of 6322mAh down to 3V per cell. I could go lower to gain additional capacity, but I've already expected to be 6400mAh under some reasonable load. 
Discharge curves are nice and cells match very well. There was bit less than 0.01V of difference.



Here are some pictures:











































































































It can stand more than 6A load:


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## mentawais (Feb 16, 2005)

Can I used it with Nitefighter BT70??


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes of course it can be used with BT70. 6A of constant current should be more than enough. You might also consider 6 cell version which is still in the production if the running time needs to be longer. Timeframe for avability is unknown to me.


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## eTrex_FSR (Dec 18, 2009)

Could you also check for the bigger model with 10200mAh?
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/Details.S024443


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

As said 6 cell one is still in the production. 4 cells described above are orderable and in stock (as I have been informed).


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Great news! I was wondering the status of this!

-Garry


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

YAY: Great price too... if it's really 18650B cells.....

BOO: I just ordered cells without rubberized shell & no case from Hunk Lee... for more $$



garrybunk said:


> Great news! I was wondering the status of this!
> 
> -Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Should be geniue NCR18650B. Lately prices have gone down for those cells. I agree it should be proved, but so far I have trust to the KD. The price of the pack in not in the cheapo category.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Let me prepare you with some things you would shurely want to know. Voltage curve during discharge of Pannys NCR18650B is somewhat linear. Some other cells like Sanyo has higher curve. This has influence on the status leds, specialy the ones with 4 stages like BT40s and similars. Status is shown by colors based on the actual voltage level. Different lights has different tresholds (+ some variance) so the users can have different experiences using different lights and different battery packs.








Source: Battery test-review 18650 comparator

On the graph above you can see Sanyo is higher than Panny at same load, but has big drop when exhausted. This would mean user would have green/blue light for a long time and then all of the sudden orange/red/blinking. On the other side Panny would show more linear behaviour.

So we need to understand how the things are working before we can say one is better than the other and it always dependable on the aplication (tresholds in our case). Hope you got the point.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

ledoman have you ran the tests at the higher currents, 2A and 3A?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Tests of what? If you meant comparator, here it is:

Hopefuly I would manage to upload..... having some problems... I've managed it


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

curious about your test of the battery pack - subscribed :thumbsup:


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

Are you sure that velcro pouch is included, did they confirm it?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

It should, but will ask.

*EDIT*: it is confirmed it comes with pouch just as can be seen on the pictures.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Watching this closely...If these are the real deal they will sell out quickly. Ledoman, big thumbs up for the heads-up. If I was in the market for a battery I'd be jumping on one of these real fast. 

Of course I need to remind people that there is still some problems getting Li-ion batteries shipped from China. Hopefully Kaidomain has figured a way to ship these without delay...which, may be a very important issue if you are considering buying one of these.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Will ask KD about shipping options either, but are somewhat dependable on destination country, AFAIK. Gearbest EU warehouse does not deliver to my EU country, for example 

*EDIT:* KD told me they are only using Sweeden post for bateries. It's not the fastest but KH post refuses to ship them.


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## MartinMK (Nov 19, 2015)

I have this battery pack from KD.
I'm not interested in opening it up because I don't have anything to wrap it up again. I have used it on one nightride with SSX2 light from KD. I think I had that light on for about 2 to 2,5 hours and I kept it on higher level. When I got home I had 2 of three battery indicators left.
Hope this helps, I don't have any equipment to do any precise measuring.
Yes it came with pouch


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Martin, thanks for the info. One thing you can do more - are there some AWG markings on the cable?
I'm going to do more detailed review when I get it. Hopefuly this will be soon.


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## MartinMK (Nov 19, 2015)

It is marked as 20 AWG. But cable is thinner than on nitefighter battery.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Good. It might have thinner coating.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

this one from gearbest semms to be the same: 8.4V 6800mAh 4 x NCR18650B Rechargeable 18650 Li-ion Battery Pack-22.37 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com 
it is on sale now :eekster::thumbsup:


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Im waiting on a set to get here to test and confirm everything with them


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

which one: the KD or GB Version?


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## mtrain (May 28, 2008)

Is this the 6 cell version?

http://www.kaidomain.com/product/Details.S024443


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Hopefully GB has resolved tramendious shipping issues. I'm just about 60 days of waiting for my second BT21. Another not light related stuff is in "Preadvised" status at NL post for 3 weeks since it has been "shipped". WTF. 

Tig, are you going to tear down the pack so the PCM could be inspected? Would be really interesting to see if there is the same manufacturer behind.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

@mtrain: yes


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## MartinMK (Nov 19, 2015)

On GB product photos those texts on that cable seem to me as exaxtly the same as on KD battery pack i have 

*Edit:*
Looking on GB pictures at computer screen i noticed that their battery pack has 22AWG wire.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

This is I've just wanted to point out. Magnifying the picture at GB would show it has 22AWG.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

ledoman said:


> This is I've just wanted to point out. Magnifying the picture at GB would show it has 22AWG.


yes, but look at this Picture at KD https://manager.kaidomain.com/UploadFiles/635809321478948405.jpg
there is also the 22 AWG cable pictured!! :nono::skep::eekster:


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Hmmm, yes you are right. Will ask representative at KD about it. 

I know KD has make a big batch for special customer before. Pictures might also be from that batch. Will try to clearify.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

22awg cable isn't the end of the world for these little lights we use. But the KD and GB version should be the same (that was the goal when I helped GB find them).

Ledoman, of course. The reason im getting a 4 and 6 cell sample is to MAKE SURE they are what they are supposed to be.

Also guys the GB shipping issues is partially nitefighter simply getting overwhelmed with the demand for their lights. Obviously shipping issues (as im finding there is problems with anything that has lithium batteries going out via certain methods, shipping companies are stopping and not releasing the packages) and internal issues all made the problem 10x worse.

But were working on it.


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## MartinMK (Nov 19, 2015)

When i ordered from KD it was stated as 22AWG but it took a long time for them to ship it, at some point I sent them a mail and asked whats up, they replied that they are chancing cable from 22AWG to 20AWG ant that is the reason for shipping delay.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yeah, I know. 22AWG is still usable, but 20AWG would help with minimize voltage drop on higher powered lights. And we are all into that more and more (with BT21, BT70 and similars). Maybe 22AWG is not so important now, but bateries last 5 years or even more. You would want to use them with new lights at that time. So to me is still important.

Well my shipping issues has nothing to do with Nitefighter - it was in stock at the time (18th Sept). It is more GB and some carriers related. There are not only lights and batteries that are missing. There is a long thread about shipping issues over at BLF - GearBest shipping issues survey in BLF | BudgetLightForum.com


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya I know about that thread, which I why I made sure to mention all points as its not 100% gearbest problems. Their change in shipping companies and failure to show items not in stock created alot of issues.

Im working on making sure packs are up to standards we want. I know too well of voltage sag issues, my DIY light uses a 2 pin threaded connector similar to solarstorm but wire is 16awg. Overkill for the most part but turbo output is 4.5A (1.5A/emitter, xp-g2) and voltage sag is almost nothing more than that of the cells. Wire is far too big to use in any of these lights but I wanted to see how much of a difference it made above 2A draw.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yup, over the thumb, somewhere between 2 and 3A differences between 22 and 20AWG should show up. This is just a BT21 on turbo (well not my one, mine resent one still starts at 2.1A on turbo  ) But let not derail to much this thread.

Hopefuly will get answer on AWG used today.


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

This Gearbest battery with its price is really tempting, I will probably order one.


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## mentawais (Feb 16, 2005)

I ordered from kaidomain the 6 cell ,once I get and test it I'll post☺


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

AFAIK those are still in the production, so not in stock. Don't know for the timeframe, but will ask.
How do you intend to test it, do you have any equipment?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

As I thought KD has left old pictures from the batch for special customer. They are going to update the pictures ASAP.

KD also infomed me there are some "klones" of that battery pack. They wouldn't say which one and who did it. Don't know why but they just said there isn't any copyright on it. They also told me the customers would find out. :eekster: 

Well, we would need to do some tests.....


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## Tesloid (Nov 20, 2015)

Should I be concerned that a search of the KD description does not mention the manufacturer, Panasonic? It's not difficult for someone to make a product with the same part number as a competitor.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

No I don't think you should be worried. But if you want to be on the safe side just wait for about a week when I'm expecting to get test sample. Then all will be clearified. Currently it is still in Hong Kong 

BTW. I've been told 6 and 8 cells pack are ought to be in stock in about week.


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## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

any chance of them making 2 cell packs?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Will ask, good idea. If they do, it will probably take some time, since the KD is not the manufacturer and they need to make new tools for ruberized shell. 

Would be also good if we know what is demand for such pack. I'm shure there is plenty for 4 cells pack, some for 6 and at last 8 cell. Maybe we should open new thread?

Anyone thinking how to charge those hi capacity beasts? Most of our chargers would need a lot of time....


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

I'm in for some 2-cell packs too!! 
The rubberized Shells and pouches do exist already and KD just Need to source them from a supplier!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Do you have any link to 2 cell ruberized pack? It might be easier for KD to see how it should look.

Question to all: Do you think we need for 2 cell pack same 6A PCM as with 4-8 cell packs or some cheaper PCM could be used? To me 4A should be good enough.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

MJ-6008 2 Cell Waterproof Battery - Action-LED-Lights

Very nice pack, nice coating, maybe not 2200ma batteries, great for backup. I put my HunkLee 3400ma 2 cell in the pack after coating with Plastidip.

Post pics of your helmet/light setup.- Mtbr.com



ledoman said:


> Do you have any link to 2 cell ruberized pack? It might be easier for KD to see how it should look.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

4A should do it for a 2 cell pack I believe. 3A would be acceptable. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

3-4A protection and 3400mah Panasonics make a good 2 cell pack. Be a good option to have.

8cell packs I couldn't imagine carrying one of those . Already think 6 cell is a bit heavy.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I don't think there is any reason for an 8 cell pack either if it's built with 3000mAh+ cells. Now if it's built with 2000mAh cells that's another story, but I wouldn't buy that anyway!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

A 2 cell pack should actually be built with cells that are better performing with less voltage sag like the Panasonic 3500mAh NCR18650GA or the LG 18650MJ1 3500mA. These will allow max brightness for longer on a hard driven XM-L2 light (i.e. BT21). I just picked up two of the LG's for my Fenix two cell case & BT21 on my helmet.

There's a discharge test posted at BLF (somewhere) that shows how much lower the Panna 3400 really is

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya im loving my ncr18650ga cells 

Actually a 2 cell, 26650 pack 5200mah cells...long run time, not much heavier (about same as 2 cell in fenix case). Oh and the cells arent any more expensive than quality 18650s.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> A 2 cell pack should actually be built with cells that are better performing *with less voltage sag like the Panasonic 3500mAh NCR18650GA or the LG 18650MJ1 3500mA. *These will allow max brightness for longer on a hard driven XM-L2 light (i.e. BT21). I just picked up two of the LG's for my Fenix two cell case & BT21 on my helmet.
> 
> There's a discharge test posted at BLF (somewhere) that shows how much lower the Panna 3400 really is
> 
> -Garry


Interesting. This is the first I've heard of these new cells. Seems the newer Panasonic's are a product of the recent acquisition/merger with Sanyo. I'll have to pick me up a couple of these for those times when I want to go "wireless" by using a torch on the helmet. I just hope they fit in the torch. I'll have to check the size first just to be sure they will fit inside the torch host.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

They are just standard 18650 cells size wise. They should fit nicely. Both are very nice cells indeed. To bad HKJ doesn't have them on his comparator (yet). We would easily compare to the NCR18650B.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Here is the comparison graph posted over at BLF:









This chart shows the GA vs. the LG MJ1 & Samsung 35E:









Posted from this thread.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Nice find, Garry! There is about 0.1V difference at 3A load. Not whole that much, but still noticeable.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

ledoman said:


> Do you have any link to 2 cell ruberized pack? It might be easier for KD to see how it should look.
> 
> Question to all: Do you think we need for 2 cell pack same 6A PCM as with 4-8 cell packs or some cheaper PCM could be used? To me 4A should be good enough.


here you can see a Version from DX: Rechargeable Water Resistant 8.4V 2600mAh 2 x 18650 Li-ion Battery Pack - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

but the cells inside are crap - tested it some time ago - just to find out they are crap!

Yes i think a 4A pcm should be ok for the 2-cell packs - as i think they should not be used on the high power lights we have, but for a good helmet light they are perfekt!!

Edt: for refrence anoher crap pack from DX: Water Resistant 2 x 18650 1800mAh Battery Pack for Flashlight - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Be nice if Gearbest or KD would make up a 2-pack with decent cells in this case.
I have the Fenix cases, but they're hard for others to find.



Whitedog1 said:


> here you can see a Version from DX: Rechargeable Water Resistant 8.4V 2600mAh 2 x 18650 Li-ion Battery Pack - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
> 
> but the cells inside are crap - tested it some time ago - just to find out they are crap!
> 
> ...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Now that's what I talking about. Rubber case and all that, get those with good cell's and were in business!


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

this Hunk Lee 26650 pack looks nice, FMA LiIon Battery Pack 26650



tigris99 said:


> Ya im loving my ncr18650ga cells
> 
> Actually a 2 cell, 26650 pack 5200mah cells...long run time, not much heavier (about same as 2 cell in fenix case). Oh and the cells arent any more expensive than quality 18650s.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice, seems like a new listing too. Only one he has. If I was to go that route Id want a waterproof casing though. Rubber like what is shown in the beginning of this thread. My helmet light battery goes on the helmet too and at least right now, its too wet to have the cells more or less exposed (ton of snow)


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

I dip my HunkLee 3400ma 2 cell 3 times in a can of Plastidip, works great.



tigris99 said:


> Nice, seems like a new listing too. Only one he has. If I was to go that route Id want a waterproof casing though. Rubber like what is shown in the beginning of this thread. My helmet light battery goes on the helmet too and at least right now, its too wet to have the cells more or less exposed (ton of snow)


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ive used that stuff alot back in my rc days, good stuff. Forgot about it till now.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

tigris99 said:


> Ive used that stuff alot back in my rc days, good stuff. Forgot about it till now.


Works well, but... Stinks to high heaven in bulk, fumes are carcinogenic. Dries out in the container too.
I prefer to wrap in self-fusing silicone tape for waterproofing, then wrap with heat shrink for toughness.
Oh, I also paint on a little plasti-dip on the remaining openings in the heat-shrink with a tiny brush, but it's probably overkill.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Today I'm about to get pack from the OP. Will do some preview at least. Capacity measurements will take quite some time....


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## Fett (Jan 6, 2004)

patski said:


> this Hunk Lee 26650 pack looks nice, FMA LiIon Battery Pack 26650


My current battery pack is an 8.4v pack. I see that this pack is 7.4v. I am looking for a replacement pack for my Solar Storm headlight. Is this compatible? Any adverse effect with the voltage difference?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

We should stick with the OP. All about HL packs should be posted in aproprate thread.
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/battery-thread-2013-a-834295.html at least.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I've did some pictures of the pack I've got. You can see them in the post 
#2.

So far everything is as expected. Good pouch, ruberized shell, Panasonic NCR18650B cells inside. Proper initial voltage and balanced cells at 3.62V.
Currently I'm charging the pack. Testing capacity will take quite some time since discharge should run about 4 hours at 2A load. Hopefuly I'll find time soon.

Another good news is the *KD will try to make 2S1P pack with Panasonic NCR18650GA (3500mAh /10A) cells* mentioned above. How long it will take it's unknown yet, but will try to keep you informed.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

ledoman said:


> Another good news is the *KD will try to make 2S1P pack with Panasonic NCR18650GA (3500mAh /10A) cells* mentioned above. How long it will take it's unknown yet, but will try to keep you informed.


Yes that is really a good Info! This pack should be light and should have some serious power for our lights!


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Great news ledoman! Honestly, I think I'd support KD before GearBest right now (given the choice to buy the 2S2P pack either place).

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I see you used my same idea on using those little lcd volt meters connected to the DC plug to check pack voltages! I plan on carrying mine on the bike to check packs as-needed.

-Garry


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Does somebody know when the 2s2p packs (which ledoman is testing at the moment) are available from KD? 
They are still in production are they?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

*2S2P packs at KD are already avalaible*. I can ask how many are in stock right now.

2S3P and 2S4P are still in the production, afaik. The 2S1P is annouced to be produced, but this will take some time I think.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

great thank you!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I need to test the capacity, though. But I can expect to be good since the charging took quite long time (the whole evening). Disconnected the charger when cells were at 4.21V. Over the night voltage has dropped to 4.18V. This is OK, since the cells weren't fully topped. 
There is no visible sign not to believe cells are geniue NCR18650B. Will do also discharge graph so everything will show up.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Finished discharging process at 2A (1A per cell). I've got nice capacity of 6322mAh down to 3V per cell. I could go lower to gain additional capacity, but I've already expected to be 6400mAh under some reasonable load. 
Discharge curves are nice and cells match pretty well. There was bit less than 0.01V difference.


So it proves the cells are good and discharge curve match the ones from HKJ comparator.


*I'm happy I can tell this is good pack.* It is only PCM left to test.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Anyone who needs a MS type battery for a bike light and / or is planning on buying a bike light without battery, you need to be jumping on this right now while they are available. From what Ledoman has said these look like they are pretty good batteries. no reason to wait for any more details. Buy them while you can, they will probably sell out quick.


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

Now the question is whether GB batteries which are cheaper a little bit are the same or not. Probably it is safer/faster to order them from KD, but I am in a no hurry.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

ledoman said:


> Here is the link: http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S024442


Ordered, thanks Ledoman.
I'm keen on a 2 cell too when available.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes it looks very good so far. Currently I'm not aware of any 2S2P pack out there to beat this one when you look at the price/performance ratio. Might be wrong, though.

Will encourage KD to develop 2 cell pack asap.


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## MartinMK (Nov 19, 2015)

Nice, now when it is confirmed I can suggest this battery to my friends.

If i'm correct I used voucher code when ordering this battery and i got it for 25,63usd.
Now i used google to search for a voucher for KD and found this KDBN11 it is stated as Black Friday And Cyber Monday Deals! You get this battery for 26.01usd when using it.


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## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

MartinMK thank you, ordered. I rather give a few $ more and buy verified KD version than the one from GB.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

KD informed me they have enough Panasonic 2S2P packs in stock. They didn't define what is "enough", though.

Anyway, I can confirm it is worth to buy for anyone who wants good battery pack even for the future use. If you take care, they should last 5 years, at least.
Taking care includes storing it in the colder places and at 40% charge level (about 7.4V) when you don't intend to use it for longer period.


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## Jaco P. (Dec 9, 2013)

So these packs have a good built-in protection so they switch off when charging or are "empty"?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

In the post #2 you can see the picture of PCM. Since it is welded and not soldered it is hard to remove it nicely. I don't want to ruin those new cells doing full tests on them. 
Based on ICs used I would conclude the protection is implemented properly. But I'm not EE so I can't tell for shure. I'm waiting Archie to respond and comment it.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I've tested PCM load with two lights in parallel. One was BT21 and the other was 6 up ligfht moded to run at high power. It can easily stand more than 6A load:



In fact I've got 7A for a moment, just before 6 up light step down because of the heat.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Great! Thanks for the testing ledoman! Hope we don't see supply issues with this pack!

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Hopefuly KD is well prepared. They are aware of this thread and I'm shure they are reading it. I'm glad we have finaly found good battery pack for reasonable price. There are some small things to be improved, but overall it is very good.

For example:
1. I would suggest to use capton tape to insulate PCM leads from the cells.
2. PCM leads could be little wider to lower the resistance at higher loads.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I just noticed there was no insulating tape on the protection PCB. very odd, could be a probably after a fair amount of time with heavy use.

Definitely one of those things they need to know about and get fixed. Not a huge deal to start with but being the outside of the cell is ground, eventually PCB can wear through the outer plastic and cause issues. Thankfully their Panasonic cells, so even in the rare case the pack is damaged, they arent going to go critical.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I agree, tig. I'll let them know. Since pack is in the rubber shell it is less likely something that would happen, but they should minimize those risks. Not a lot of work, just 1-2cm wide chunk of capton tape under PCB on the whole battery lenght + the part where PCM leads are bent.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks ledoman for all your work with KD on this. Any chance they might be willing and able to bring a flat 2S2P pack into production? Now that the weather is cold, would be convenient to keep the batteries inside jersey pockets under a jacket. Know I'd purchase a couple packs in a flat configuration right away.

Also would like to see their packs with the same kind of integrated rubber straps as Magic Shine uses — think KD already offers some crappy batteries set up this way. I know Archie will disagree will me on their usefulness in cold weather, but I've not had a problem with my MS batteries that came like this. Am getting tired of all this Velcro — my all-weather jacket cuffs and all three pairs of riding gloves are fastened with it, am always getting my other battery packs stuck on the loose ends when trying to get them on and off my bikes. Argh! :madmax:


----------



## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

2s1p flat packs are already in production at KD - as far as i know from ledoman!
These packs are perfekt for carrying in the pocket as well as for a helmet light!


----------



## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

Whitedog1 said:


> 2s1p flat packs are already in production at KD - as far as i know from ledoman!
> These packs are perfekt for carrying in the pocket as well as for a helmet light!


Are these packs with the 3500mah panasonic cells?


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not they are with 3400mah Panasonic cells


----------



## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Ivan87 said:


> Are these packs with the 3500mah panasonic cells?


according to the info i have from ledoman they are going to build it with the new Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA cells!


----------



## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

thats excellent news


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

AFAIK, Kaidomain said they would try to make 2S1P pack with NCR18650GA cells. There is no info they are in production yet. At least I'm not aware. I know they are NCR18650GA selling on their site so I assume they have some larger batch.

Will ask also about flat 2S2P pack, but I doubt it. Not shure if rubber shell exists for it. Has anyone seen it elsewhere?


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Haven't seen a MS style flat 2S2P pack, but OLight makes (or did make) a flat power bank, one model was slightly curved maybe to fit against the hip (came with a belt clip.) Dunno whether their connectors are compatible with MS; they don't seem to have any bike specific lamps on the market.

Would really prefer a flat 2S2P over a 2S1P, don't like having to take off my gloves to change batteries in the cold.

Thanks again ledoman!


----------



## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Hunk Lee has this, Protected Li ion Battery 7 4V 6200mAh by Panasonic 18650 Cell 2S2PB w PCM bms In | eBay



ledoman said:


> Will ask also about flat 2S2P pack, but I doubt it. Not shure if rubber shell exists for it. Has anyone seen it elsewhere?





andychrist said:


> Would really prefer a flat 2S2P over a 2S1P, don't like having to take off my gloves to change batteries in the cold.


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

ledoman said:


> Will ask also about flat 2S2P pack, but I doubt it. Not shure if rubber shell exists for it. Has anyone seen it elsewhere?


No, but aluminium shells for flat 2S2P packs are widely available...


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Woohoo, mines shipped.


----------



## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Mine "shipped" a week ago but it still doesn't show up in tracking. What have the rest of you experienced with tracking KD shipments?


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

That's why I dont buy from KD, last time I did they said shipped, but they didn't actually give it to the shipping company till 2 weeks after I got shipping confirmation.


----------



## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

what shipping company? Hunk Lee sends me a "shipped" email and tracking code, about 10-15 days later it shows up in a Fedex Depot in NJ..... another 5 days to Sacramento.



tigris99 said:


> That's why I dont buy from KD, last time I did they said shipped, but they didn't actually give it to the shipping company till 2 weeks after I got shipping confirmation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

KD has been always reliable to me on all regular orders. Timing for some things might have variations as they have with all China sellers. This is fact we all should take into account.

My last order of battery pack has been shipped on 27th Nov. with registered HK post and it doesn't show at HKpost stracking system. Not worried as I know it can take quite some time to be routed to my direction. US people might be somewhat spoiled by shorter delivery times. For me 3 weeks is an average.

gmcttr, which postal service you have got? If it was Sweeden post, then it might be routed to Santa's first as they are pretty close 

Edit: Another very well known seller here has shipped an item to me like this:

Ordered Oct 26, 2015 
2015-11-02 08:18 The item is pre-advised
2015-11-27 00:00 NLAMSE, Arrival in exchange post
2015-11-27 00:00 NLAMSE, Departure to destination country

So..... wait and see


----------



## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

ledoman said:


> ...gmcttr, which postal service you have got? If it was Sweeden post, then it might be routed to Santa's first as they are pretty close ...


Thanks.

Whatever KD's free shipping to the USA is??? Clicking on "Track It" from my Order Summary page goes to the Hongkong Post tracking page which gives me "There is no record on the subject item".

Using 17Track leads me to believe it was shipped by Sweden Post and states "2015-11-28 14:35 Item received for processing". All is well.


----------



## Tourendo (Jan 22, 2004)

mentawais said:


> I ordered from kaidomain the 6 cell ,once I get and test it I'll post☺


I ordered this also and got an email that it has been shipped. Has the battery actually been shipped or is it just BS ?

On an unrelated note, WTF is up with all the advertising on MTBR. I dont mind a few ads, but its getting ridiculous. Over 1/2 of my screen is lost to ads now.


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I'm not aware about status of 6 cell packs. Last time I've got info they are in production. They might be avalaible now. I should ask KD.


----------



## mtrain (May 28, 2008)

ledoman said:


> I'm not aware about status of 6 cell packs. Last time I've got info they are in production. They might be avalaible now. I should ask KD.


Is this the 6 cell version?

http://www.kaidomain.com/product/Details.S024443


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

What, can't you read ?  It clearly states several times there is 6x NCR18650B pack.

BTW. Here are some answers from KD:

Q1 : *What is the staus of 2 cell pack?*
A1 : For the 2 x Battery pack, we will produce as 8.4V (2S1P), max cur: 6A. It is the same as 4x and 6x battery pack. We are seeing the pouch. We want to find a better pouch in this time.

Q2 : *Are 6 and 8 cells pack in stock now? *
A2 : 6x and 8x is in stock now.

Q3 : *How about flat 4cell (2S2P) pack?*
A3 : Yes. We can contact our manufacturer and i will reply to you asap.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Great news ledoman, thanks!!!

For the 4 cell flat pack, there shouldn't be much of a need for a pouch, as I suspect most of us would only want such a setup to carry inside a jersey pocket. Though maybe some would want to mount to helmet, would be a bit heavy but much less awkward than lugging a 4 cell square pack up there.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ledoman said:


> What, can't you read ?  It clearly states several times there is 6x NCR18650B pack.
> 
> BTW. Here are some answers from KD:
> 
> ...


All good news. People who are worried about shipping and tracking...remember it is officially the Christmas holiday season. If you order it NOW you MIGHT get it by Christmas. Otherwise, most times the free shipping takes about 16-18 days to USA east coast. I've ordered many items from Kaidomain over the years and never can I remember waiting for an order longer that 18 days "unless" it was back ordered. I think that only happened once ( batteries ) and took a couple more weeks. Thankfully they sent the available items and sent the other items later.


----------



## UB400 (Nov 19, 2015)

Please excuse me if this is considered off-topic. I just ordered one of these packs and I was wondering what charger is recommended to get the best out of this pack? The only chargers I have on hand are the ones that come with the cheap Chinese lights. What charger would you recommend that I can use without disassembling the pack? Thank you for your response.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Use the chargers u have they will work the same.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

UB400 said:


> Please excuse me if this is considered off-topic. I just ordered one of these packs and I was wondering what charger is recommended to get the best out of this pack? The only chargers I have on hand are the ones that come with the cheap Chinese lights. What charger would you recommend that I can use without disassembling the pack? Thank you for your response.


Your question is not off topic as it has to do with charging the batteries that you are ordering. Hopefully your charger will work fine. Nevertheless it doesn't hurt to have a second charger on hand if the one you have doesn't work. I would recommend ordering a brand name charger from either action led or from a mountain bike revolution.


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

UB400, the charger you have would be pretty slow for your pack (probably you are talking about 4 cell pack). Certainly I would check output voltage the chargers. In the other thread someone has found out he has 10.35V instead of 8.40V. If your is about 8.40V then it is more or less fine, just slow.

Some time ago I was working to get better and faster chargers to the community but Gearbest did not decide to order them. It was only 200 pcs to make a deal, but ..  
Here is the thread about it: 
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...li-ion-charger-2sxp-battery-packs-944978.html

I'm going to try now with Kaidomain. I think people should stay away from those cheapo chargers if they can. Specialy for 220V enviroments those are not safe enough. You can find review of one such charger here: Review of WJT-0068 2S 1A LiIon


----------



## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> People who are worried about shipping and tracking...remember it is officially the Christmas holiday season. If you order it NOW you MIGHT get it by Christmas. Otherwise, most times the free shipping takes about 16-18 days to USA east coast.


I ordered a couple of Batteries from Hunk Lee on Nov12, they hit NuJersey on Nov25, they've been bouncing around Fedex Ground since then, just arrived at the "smartpost" depot in Sacramento today, maybe I get them tmorrow? Monday?

It's that time of year.


----------



## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey Ledoman

Are you able to see if KD can supply this battery pack w/ a slightly bit different connector that would work w/ a Dinotte for those of us that have those lights. I've emailed them and they responded once but once they got the photos of what I needed, they seem to have disappeared leading me to believe this is the only connector they'll offer.

Thx

MB


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

KD I dont think is actually making the pack, they have a company that does. If standard ms connectors dont work for dinotte then your stuck with dinotte packs. Problem of proprietary parts, in this case the connector.


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

ledoman said:


> Some time ago I was working to get better and faster chargers to the community but Gearbest did not decide to order them. It was only 200 pcs to make a deal, but ..
> Here is the thread about it:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...li-ion-charger-2sxp-battery-packs-944978.html
> 
> I'm going to try now with Kaidomain. I think people should stay away from those cheapo chargers if they can. Specialy for 220V enviroments those are not safe enough. You can find review of one such charger here: Review of WJT-0068 2S 1A LiIon


If you get anywhere with KD on making better chargers: I want 2. 

hopefully there will be enough demand.


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

mb323323 said:


> Hey Ledoman
> 
> Are you able to see if KD can supply this battery pack w/ a slightly bit different connector that would work w/ a Dinotte for those of us that have those lights. I've emailed them and they responded once but once they got the photos of what I needed, they seem to have disappeared leading me to believe this is the only connector they'll offer.
> 
> ...


Have you thought about swapping out the light head connector for an MS one? Might be easier since heads are typically not sealed like the packs are.


----------



## UB400 (Nov 19, 2015)

Thank you all for your responses to my question. Thank you Ledoman for the link to the charger feeler thread, I too am interested.


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

UB400, will try to work on chargers to, but can't give any prommises yet.

*GOOD NEWS*:

*2 cell (2S1P) battery packs are in the production*. Currently they don't have apropriate pouch for it, but they are working on it. The PCM used should stand 10A continious current. Since the cells are supposed to be NCR18650GA this is good so also more powerful lights can be used too. But of course we need to check it out first.

*4 cell FLAT (2S2P) packs are also in the production*. I don't have any exact data on this one yet, waiting to get some pictures tomorrow.


----------



## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Flat 4 cell sounds great! Thx and keep us posted pls.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Wow I can hardly believe it ledoman, am so thrilled!

Once the 2S2P becomes available, will need to find a double pocket jersey or vest to keep the packs "balanced." 

Thanks again and again.


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Andy, keep comm. I haven't seen it yet. This is just the info I've got from KD. Will see it today if they are going to send me the pictures as prommised. Don't know anything about the prices either. But so far they have been reliable, so keep fingers crossed


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

This flat 4 cell has my attention. Something I can put in the top pocket of my hydropack for nights ill be out more than an hour or so.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

OK here we go. Preview of 2 cell (2S1P) and 4 cell (2S2P) flat packs. Pictures have been sent to me by Kaidomain.















The pouch for the 2 cell pack is in the production now. I have no idea how it looks like.

*Question*: Would you rather see shorter cable with 2 cell pack? Currently it is 60cm long, same as with 4 cells. If yes, how long it should be?


----------



## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Yes, shorter cable for 2S1P pack. 15cm should be plenty. 
You can always add an extension, which they sell.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Ofroad, be aware you get some additional voltage drop over the connectors if you choose to use extension cable. Just to remind you...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

For the 2 cell. 10cm max for the length. Anything longer and your going to have alot of extra cable hanging on your helmet.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Has anyone actually received the 6800 battery pack?


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

I would say 15cm is Long enough for the 2s1p pack - to much cable on the helmet / head is not so comfortable!


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## Ivan87 (Oct 30, 2012)

I say 5-10cm length for the 2s1p pack, most guys will be using these on the helmets, my current 2s1p packs have 2-3cm cable length!


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

I say 10-15cm for 2-cell


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya anything longer than 10 is way too much, id prefer 5cm. If people are needing longer, use extension cable


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

ledoman, might KD arrange some kind of protective covering on the flat four? I understand that there is probably not any rubber casing being manufactured for such a configuration as of now but I'd be uncomfortable riding around with cells in my pockets merely held together with some measly shrink wrap. Otherwise would have bought hunk_lee's 2S2P flat pack. Oh well their 2S1P looks good.  Thanks again!


----------



## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

on my other cheapo battery packs I wrapped them liberally with Self-fusing Silicone Tape, seems to really firm up the package and makes it waterproof. Haven't tried it on a flat pack....



andychrist said:


> ledoman, might KD arrange some kind of protective covering on the flat four? I understand that there is probably not any rubber casing being manufactured for such a configuration as of now but I'd be uncomfortable riding around with cells in my pockets merely held together with some measly shrink wrap. Otherwise would have bought hunk_lee's 2S2P flat pack. Oh well their 2S1P looks good.  Thanks again!


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

andychrist said:


> ledoman, might KD arrange some kind of protective covering on the flat four? I understand that there is probably not any rubber casing being manufactured for such a configuration as of now but I'd be uncomfortable riding around with cells in my pockets merely held together with some measly shrink wrap. Otherwise would have bought hunk_lee's 2S2P flat pack. Oh well their 2S1P looks good.  Thanks again!


Andy, I've got just pictures of the samples. I'm shure they would try to find/make some kind of pouch. Their statement wasn't really clear if they are looking for pouch for 2cells pack or for both. Anyway, I will ask tem.

*For all others*. It looks *10cm cable for 2cell pack is the most common* to all you have answered. I will forward this to the KD. Then we will see. There might be first batch with longer cables (I'm supposed to get one to test, but it's not shipped yet). If so, I'll ask them to publish both versions on their web pages so you'll have the choice.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks ledoman.



patski said:


> on my other cheapo battery packs I wrapped them liberally with Self-fusing Silicone Tape, seems to really firm up the package and makes it waterproof. Haven't tried it on a flat pack....


Good idea; also maybe it would help to stiffen a flat pack with some kind of thin plastic/polycarbonate sheet material like Ortlieb uses in the backsides of their panniers.


----------



## jn35646 (Mar 3, 2011)

the mayor said:


> Has anyone actually received the 6800 battery pack?


Nope. Ordered 11/28, "shipped" 12/1, however, still no update when I track it via the data on kaidomain website. I figured it would take 3-4 weeks, so I won't worry until the new year.


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

jn35646 said:


> ...still no update when I track it via the data on kaidomain website. ...


Try using 17track....ALL-IN-ONE PACKAGE TRACKING | 17TRACK


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## jn35646 (Mar 3, 2011)

gmcttr said:


> Try using 17track....ALL-IN-ONE PACKAGE TRACKING | 17TRACK


Neat website. No luck though. I've sent a note to Kaidomain. Not worried yet, expected it to take a while. Curious if others that ordered in the same time frame are seeing tracking results or receiving their orders.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I placed my order on the 27th....a postage ticket was made on the 28th.
It finally shows "package entered system" in Swedish Postal today.


----------



## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Ordered 11-20-15

Order shipped email on 11-24-15

KD/Hongkong Post tracking still says "There is no record on the subject item."

17Track shows...

In Transit ...Sweden(Direct Link)...United States(USPS)

Latest Event -- 2015-12-04 13:34 Order departed on flight from origin

2015-12-04 13:34 Order departed on flight from origin
2015-11-28 14:35 Item received for processing
2015-11-28 09:41 Item pre-advice received


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I add a wrap of heat-shrink tubing for rigidity.
If it's a LiPo soft pack I do 2 wraps -1 vertical, 1 horizontal.
If you want to get really fancy you can double-seal it by painting plasti-dip on the exposed edges.



andychrist said:


> Thanks ledoman.
> 
> Good idea; also maybe it would help to stiffen a flat pack with some kind of thin plastic/polycarbonate sheet material like Ortlieb uses in the backsides of their panniers.


----------



## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

gmcttr said:


> Try using 17track....ALL-IN-ONE PACKAGE TRACKING | 17TRACK


I contacted kaidomain since the tracking they provided on order did not work. Kaidomain provided the following link for tracking that worked:

Track and trace

Not sure the link will work for you as I removed my tracking #. Contact kaidomain with transaction # and they will reply quickly


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## jn35646 (Mar 3, 2011)

They replied quickly to me as well with this tracking service. Meant to share, thanks for doing so.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

I am curious. Which of these packs are safe to use with the gearbest yinding NW light?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Both, as long as the pack is listed 8.4v, it will work with yinding and most of budget bike lights. These are the best budget packs available at this time.


----------



## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

Great thanks. I ordered a yinding NW just now because the light/battery combo is out of stock. I actually have a battery pck for a magicshine knockoff that looks EXACTLY like this pack and the Panasonic pack on gearbest. I wonder if that would be safe to use. Regardless, I have to buy a new pack soon because my old light is going to the lady. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No reason it wont except the run time will be pretty low, the cheap packs like that many time dont run a light for very long, especially newer, higher output lights.


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## wetpaint (Sep 7, 2009)

Mine finally showed up. Testing it out on my Yinding and it was still green after 2 hours on high, at which point I gave up the test. I'm happy, I was hoping for at least 2 hours for my handlebar light and now I have it, plus it was really cheap.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

wetpaint, Yinding should run another 1.5 hour on high with this battery pack. All together 3.5h. Combined usage should give you 5h of runtime.


----------



## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

ledoman said:


> *For all others*. It looks *10cm cable for 2cell pack is the most common* to all you have answered. I will forward this to the KD. Then we will see. There might be first batch with longer cables (I'm supposed to get one to test, but it's not shipped yet). If so, I'll ask them to publish both versions on their web pages so you'll have the choice.


Ledoman do you know if they will use our wish for the 10cm cable length?
When will we see them in stock? 
As i see the 2x packs with 60cm cable are available now!
Thanks

Edit: today arrived my 4x18650 packs from KD - Ordered on 1st of Dec. !


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I see... I was waiting for KD to publish packs at their site. They will offer both 60 and 10cm 2S1P versions.

Currently I can see only 60 cm version but I expect to get links for 10cm 2S1P and for 4 cell flat pack soon.

I'm glad you have got 4cell pack. You won't regret it.


----------



## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

ok - great thanks!
So i will wait for the 10cm cable Version 2s1p pack to Show up!


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Hmmm.....the listing says 60 MM.
I hope that's a misprint. LOL


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

It looks they have corrected it already


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

ledoman said:


> It looks they have corrected it already


Look in the picture...still 60mm.


----------



## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

the mayor said:


> Look in the picture...still 60mm.


Nope: http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S024751


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Whitedog1 said:


> Nope: http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S024751


That's the 10cm


----------



## mentawais (Feb 16, 2005)

Whitedog1 said:


> Ledoman do you know if they will use our wish for the 10cm cable length?
> When will we see them in stock?
> As i see the 2x packs with 60cm cable are available now!
> Thanks
> ...


But this 2x packs are 7,4 v ,can I used it with BT21??Which one charger can I used?


----------



## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

the mayor said:


> That's the 10cm


yes there are 2 Versions - one with 10cm and one with 60cm cable!


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Whitedog1 said:


> yes there are 2 Versions - one with 10cm and one with 60cm cable!


You need to go back and read this thread.


----------



## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

mentawais said:


> But this 2x packs are 7,4 v ,can I used it with BT21??Which one charger can I used?


7,4v is nominal voltage, max voltage is 8,4V - so i think you can use the normal charger which Comes with the BT21 light!


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

mentawais said:


> But this 2x packs are 7,4 v ,can I used it with BT21??Which one charger can I used?


Same charger, all the same lights. They are the EXACT SAME PACKS, 7.4 and 8.4v packs are the exact same thing. 7.4 is nominal and 8.4v is max/fully charged voltage.


----------



## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

the mayor said:


> You need to go back and read this thread.


please enlighten me!?? :skep:


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

OK, so you have already noticed it. Let me resume. We got two versions of 2S1P pack with:

10 cm cable: http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S024751
60 cm cable: http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S024746

I'll be getting the one with 60cm to test and no pouch since it was not ready back then. Unfortunately the shippment is still in HK.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

I already ordered the 10cm Version - current Status is "packing"!


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

There was some discussion about charging NCR18650GA cells in another thread. 
Just some important facts FYI:

Tipical recommended charge rate 1.675A/cell (0.5C)
The charging current should not exceed 3.35A/cell (1C)

Source: http://www.nkon.nl/sk/k/ncr18650ga.pdf
Another interesting datasheet: https://www.master-instruments.com.au/cgi/ajax/get_file/63606/1

So it is still safe to charge those cells up to 3A or in another words you can safely charge this KD 2S1P pack at that rate, but for longer life time it is recommended 1.6A. So when in hurry you can safely use 3A, but otherwise it is recommended to use less.


----------



## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

Received four cell pack on Saturday, ordered Nov 11. Arrived fully charged. Ordered 2 cell, 10cm yesterday


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

It should not be fully charged on arrival. Have you measured voltage or just watched the status leds on some light?


----------



## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

Charger has a red/green light indicating charging. Plugged it in, light green, stayed green.


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

As long as you don't measure the voltage of the pack I can't say for shure. Normaly cells should be at storage voltage when arrived (ie. about 3.7 - 3.8V per cell or 7.4-7.6V with 2S pack). It might be they have tested it before shipping, but as said can't be shure if you don't measure the actual voltage.
Anyway, don't store it fully charged for a longer period.


----------



## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

FWIW...my three 4 cell packs arrived today and all three measured 7.22V


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

My 4 cell arrived today, looks great, and I got a hand written christmas card from Kai. Unfortunately I've loaned out my charger so no reliable runtime testing. 
Just ordered a two cell.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Today I've just got 2S1P and 2S2P flat pack to test. No 2 cell pouch included as it was not ready at shipping time. Had some issues with customs for the first time when getting things by DHL, but solved that.

You can expect my review in a few days. First will test 2 cell pack which is probably the most interesting. Very likely I'll open new thread since this one is already pretty long.


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

4 cell (2S2P) FLAT pack published:
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S024761

So far all you wishes come true (maybe Santa chimed in  ) Now it's time to work on a good charger(s).


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Awesome work ledoman! I am still waiting on a good higher current charger. Yes I have a hobby charger, but sometimes I don't want to drag that out. 

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yeah I know. My first attempt associated with GB failed. Now I'll try to engage Kaidomain, but again it will take some time as I'm not shure if we can get same manufacturer products which were already tested.
I'm in contact with some other, but they are asking if the charger could be desktop not the wall plug since it's hard to get 3A out of small housing. Personaly I would prefer wall plug design.

Anyway this should be discussed over there at http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...li-ion-charger-2sxp-battery-packs-944978.html


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I know 2A chargers already exist, nitefighter lights have them. 

Im good with 2A. Anything else causes to much risk of damage to cells and may not be a good idea to post all about "faster charging" as we'll get idiots burning their houses down trying to charge a cheap Chinese pack at 3A


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

ledoman said:


> 4 cell (2s2p) flat pack published:
> http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.s024761


udaman


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

???


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

American "slang" term (I use it a lot too, just not here lol):

U DA MAN -->. Your the man.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Sorry, but we are not all American so we can't understand you. Thanks Tig. In general I've got feeling sometimes for someone the USA is "the whole world", specialy when giving advices where to get something not thinking members can be from anywhere on the planet. I miss that data below member name on the left side of our posts. Sometimes it would be much easier to discuss.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Oops wrong thread. :madman:


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## soopahfly (Dec 12, 2015)

What are the terminals labeled P- P+ and T?
Can we get the pack with a balance tap fitted?

Is it possible to buy the rubber case and pouch separately?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Don't know for T, but P-/P+ terminals are for Power (ie cable). Those terminals are on the both sides. I can imagine T is for testing purposes, but can't tell for shure.

I don't think many users would like to have balancing tap on their packs. IMHO, they would rather stay with rainproof design. I think it's not hard to solder tap by yourself anyway.

I don't know about rubber case and pouch, but you can ask yourself at [email protected].


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Typically "T" is used for thermal sensor connection...


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Archie, do you think the IC's on that PCM has thermal feature implemented? I would try to trace it down, but I've already sealed the whole pack back.


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## soopahfly (Dec 12, 2015)

I've found the opinion of the radio controlled community that the exposed connectors of a balance tap don't add much in the way of reducing the weather resistance of a pack. They seem to think it only matters if the terminal is submerged.

I know it's easy to add a tap, I've done it to my own packs. I'm just looking for a nicer solution.
And my modified packs are cheap packs that came with my lights, testing before I buy a good quality pack.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Well RC community doesn't wear batteries on their helmets, backpacks, bicycles, .... If they run into problem their toys would be damaged not themselves, so useless advice, imho.


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## soopahfly (Dec 12, 2015)

They have been using LiPo for a lot longer than us bikers have been. You don't hear about hobbyists burning their houses down, and just tucking the lead inside the pouch would give it sufficient protection from the weather anyway.

Being able to safely charge and monitor a pack is more important to me than the highly unlikely scenario that enough water will reach the plug to cause an issue.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I agree, but you are very likely not an average user and you know what are you doing. An average user doesn't care to much, so we need simple design. You have to think about most users not just yourself.


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## soopahfly (Dec 12, 2015)

That is a fair point. I see that Hunk_Lee on ebay sells PCB's that look like a direct replacement for the standard board inside one of these packs and gives it balance features using the standard charger. I may investigate this route instead


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

ledoman said:


> Archie, do you think the IC's on that PCM has thermal feature implemented? I would try to trace it down, but I've already sealed the whole pack back.


Very unlikely. But many of bike lights PCBs I've seen were 'ready' for that feature, with soldering points for NTC resistor and places for related components (left unpopulated at the factory)...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

soopahfly said:


> They have been using LiPo for a lot longer than us bikers have been. You don't hear about hobbyists burning their houses down, and just tucking the lead inside the pouch would give it sufficient protection from the weather anyway.
> 
> Being able to safely charge and monitor a pack is more important to me than the highly unlikely scenario that enough water will reach the plug to cause an issue.


If you haven't heard of rc packs burning things down you obviously haven't been that involved in rc and lipo use. I was there when lipos and brushless first became big. Saw first hand lipos go critical, videos all over YouTube, threads just like the one hear of ppls garages being gutted or their kitchen catching on fire. And these have nothing on the destructive force of lipos.

Lipos dont have protection circuits(at least didn't) because its added resistance against the massive amp draws. 3-4x that of these bike lights easily. So a balance plug is required.

Also rc users are a hell of alot smarter/have more common sense than many cyclists. So companies have to compensate for the high level of stupidity.

Balance is something that's nice to have but as said before, properly prebalanced cells last a long time before falling out of balance again. To me its just as easy to use a balance charger by opening the pack.

Oh and its not the plug getting wet that's a problem, its water getting inside the pack and shorting out the pcb/cells that's the problem. Can submerge connectors all you want, wont hurt anything. Just like a lipo, water gets inside the cells, its over in a very exo-thermic way.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

ledoman said:


> In general I've got feeling sometimes for someone the USA is "the whole world"


I just assumed you had spent enough time on MTBR... 

I drove through Ljubjana once, on the way to Torbole(via Trieste) for Gardasee mountain biking, '92 I think, wild times.



tigris99 said:


> U DA MAN -->. Your the man.


and it's "You're the man!"


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

soopahfly said:


> They have been using LiPo for a lot longer than us bikers have been. You don't hear about hobbyists burning their houses down...


Actually, if you're in the loop, they catch fire all the time, when my son was into quadcopters we made him charge them in the fireplace and bought him an ammo box to store them.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> Also rc users are a hell of alot smarter/have more common sense than many cyclists.


ahhh, no.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok guess I gave rc guys too much credit lol.the ones I rolled with we had our expensive store bought ones and then we also had rc rock crawlers, comp and scale we all custom built. Besides the little kids I figured (though this was before major brands had brushless/lipo systems in anything except the most expensive models) but adults I assumed would be better.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

i tested all of my 3 2s2p packs from Kaidomain and got impressive 6750 - 6830mAh out of them! 2A down to 3V with my Hobby charger!
These batteries are the real deal !


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Whitedog1 said:


> 2A down to 3V with my Hobby charger!


To 3 V ?!? :eekster:


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Whitedog1, this is great news. What hobby charger you are using?

Still I think your figures are bit to high. Let me try to explain. NCR18650B cells are declared 3400mAh tipicaly discharged at 0.2C (ie. 0.68A). This is somewhat lower than you have used. Next you have discharged down to 3V (hopefuly you meant per cell). Again tipicaly the cells are discharged down to 2.8V or even lower to get full capacity readings. Next there are some small looses over the PCM.

Based on HKJ comparator and my measurments I would say real capacity of the pack is about 6400mAh. Discharging down to 2.8V/cell it may grow to 6600mAh at max.

Nevertheless it is important you are happy with the packs


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## soopahfly (Dec 12, 2015)

ledoman said:


> Whitedog1, this is great news. What hobby charger you are using?
> 
> Still I think your figures are bit to high. Let me try to explain. NCR18650B cells are declared 3400mAh tipicaly discharged at 0.2C (ie. 0.68A). This is somewhat lower than you have used. Next you have discharged down to 3V (hopefuly you meant per cell). Again tipicaly the cells are discharged down to 2.8V or even lower to get full capacity readings. Next there are some small looses over the PCM.
> 
> ...


Do you know if these packs have genuine cells in?
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S024746


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes there are geniue cells included. I'm just doing some tests to make a review. The NCR18650GA cells are designed to be discharged at 10A so are very apropriate in a 2S1P setup. Still there will be some explanations needed in the review. Anyway the cells are one of the best. We had some discussion about them few pages back if you are interested.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Finally received mine.....over a month transit time to MA ,USA. But there were a couple of Holidays in there and it is during the Holiday mail rush. YMMV


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## jn35646 (Mar 3, 2011)

the mayor said:


> Finally received mine.....over a month transit time to MA ,USA. But there were a couple of Holidays in there and it is during the Holiday mail rush. YMMV


Mine came today as well, took close to 5 weeks but I expected it would be slow. There was even a nice Christmas card and a little gift included. Very cool.

It will be nice to have a good 4cell pack. My old 4 cell pack only lasted half as long with a yinding as my 2cell with the Gemini Duo which is twice as bright, ha.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

jn35646 said:


> Mine came today as well, took close to 5 weeks but I expected it would be slow. There was even a nice Christmas card and a little gift included. Very cool.
> .


Yes....that little led keyring is actually a better light than the Nitefightter BT40....so that is a win!


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## smoovranger (Mar 22, 2010)

jn35646 said:


> Mine came today as well, took close to 5 weeks but I expected it would be slow. There was even a nice Christmas card and a little gift included. Very cool.
> 
> It will be nice to have a good 4cell pack. My old 4 cell pack only lasted half as long with a yinding as my 2cell with the Gemini Duo which is twice as bright, ha.


What carrier delivered it to your door? Mine says delivery failed on Saturday, but I'm not sure if it was usps, ups or other.

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk


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## jn35646 (Mar 3, 2011)

smoovranger said:


> What carrier delivered it to your door? Mine says delivery failed on Saturday, but I'm not sure if it was usps, ups or other.
> 
> Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk


Haha. Same with failed delivery Saturday. UPS dropped it with the mail.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

smoovranger said:


> What carrier delivered it to your door? Mine says delivery failed on Saturday, but I'm not sure if it was usps, ups or other.
> 
> Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk


Mine came USPS and required a signature


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya alot of times these requite a signature, my 6 cell came USPS and had to sign


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## SlSto (Dec 4, 2013)

Anyone in the UK ordered and received these? Wondering whether Royal Mail are delivering Lithium bike batteries? Always ordered lighthead only over the last couple of years so not had any recent experience.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

I received 2 of the packs yesterday. Charged them up and ran a discharge test with the rate set at 1.0A. It really seems to run at more like 0.8A. Anyway, capacity was reported as 5960mAh when discharging ended at 6.0v. Used the other pack for a night ride tonight and it powered up my SolarStorm X2 just fine, but I only ran it for about 30 minutes.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

18650 cell capacity is rated draining to 2.5v per cell. So what you got is right, especially for first cycle. Takes a couple cycles before they run at full capacity.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

baker said:


> I received 2 of the packs yesterday. Charged them up and ran a discharge test with the rate set at 1.0A. It really seems to run at more like 0.8A. Anyway, capacity was reported as 5960mAh when discharging ended at 6.0v. Used the other pack for a night ride tonight and it powered up my SolarStorm X2 just fine, but I only ran it for about 30 minutes.


It also depends on the charger you use. If it was hobby charger (I presume it was) used for charging those tipicaly stops charging at 1/10 of start current. The cells won't get topped. Another thing is accuracy of the charger and voltage difference between battery pack and charger (ie. voltage drop over the cables and connector).

So your result is probably just fine. I'm using iCharger 106B+ which were one of the best around. I can use Li-Lo setting at discharge time which allows me do discharge down to 2.5V per cell. Li-Po discharge method can't go lower than 3.0V. And I'm using balancing leads to monitor cells not the main port.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

ledoman said:


> It also depends on the charger you use. If it was hobby charger (I presume it was) used for charging those tipicaly stops charging at 1/10 of start current. The cells won't get topped. Another thing is accuracy of the charger and voltage difference between battery pack and charger (ie. voltage drop over the cables and connector).
> 
> So your result is probably just fine. I'm using iCharger 106B+ which were one of the best around. I can use Li-Lo setting at discharge time which allows me do discharge down to 2.5V per cell. Li-Po discharge method can't go lower than 3.0V. And I'm using balancing leads to monitor cells not the main port.


I use a Skycharger B6AC and use the Li-Po setting (I don't think I have a Li-Lo setting). 5960mAh seems good when compared to all my previously tested batteries. When I recharged the pack after the discharge, it took something like 6380mAh (I didn't write it down).


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Saw this thread and got super excited...until I saw that those cells would be hard to replace without some knowledge....Any options of an empty carrier only? Looks great though...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

The solarstorm case that's it.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

I know tigris. IT was you or ledo I think who reviewed it and it had a few flaws to be ironed out. Maybe an updated version. Although I would prefer a 2 cell carrier. I am still banging my head over the fenix deal missed. lol.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

MTK why do you want 2 cell case? Would love to know the reason for it. Why those KD packs are not sufficient for you? There are two variations for 2 cell packs: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/2s1p-8-4v-3500mah-battery-pack-kaidomain-999743.html


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Well, I want it to be more convenient really. Less cells and lighter. Runtimes are not that important as you can always dial down a level or 2 if you start running low on power. I also prefer removable cells that I can replace later and also charge them on a dedicated charger 
The kaidoman ones are non-removable


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

yes non removable but excellent packs!
They will last several years - then better cells and packs are available!
And nobody can tell if the case for removeable cells will hold Long enough to outlast a Quality cells life (like the panas 3400mAh)


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

There is no way my fenix case would out last Panasonic cells lol. That's why I have 2. But had I not gone that route previously I would have been all over these 2 cell packs. Same cells I use in my fenix case and best cells there are for 2 cell use right now.



If it wasnt for the fact I already have too many loose cells and battery packs id buy a couple of these (still debating on it anyway though lol)

What I really want, 2 cell 26650 packs!!! Weigh less than a 4 cell pack bit more than a 2 cell 18650, 5000mah capacity. That I would be all over buying in an instant.


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## Mountainking7 (Nov 8, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> If it wasnt for the fact I already have too many loose cells and battery packs id buy a couple of these (still debating on it anyway though lol)


This also as Tigris said. A waste of cells really.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well my stock pile is caused alot by all the reviews I do.

But those 2 cell packs also weigh less than a fenix case w/cells. Like 50 grams less. 

There is a company in the UK that makes and sells 2 cell cases but I can't remember the name.

It makes sense if your like me and have a pile of loose cells to want just a case. But if you don't then its stupid not to just buy one of these.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Mountainking7 said:


> *Well, I want it to be more convenient* really. Less cells and lighter. Runtimes are not that important as you can always dial down a level or 2 if you start running low on power. I also prefer removable cells that I can replace later and also charge them on a dedicated charger
> The kaidoman ones are non-removable


I'd have to argue that point because it's really not convenient at all ( removing and charging cells separately ). The advantage of a cell holder / battery box was that it offered a cheaper alternative to dedicated cell packs. This was because most battery packs used to be very expensive and separate cells were less expensive.

Like tigris said, when you use a battery box there is more weight. While not always important it is indeed a fact. You also have to deal with minute voltage drops at the electrical contact points, this too while not always important to everyone is also a fact. Then there is the issues of having to dismantle the box to remove the cells which is not always that easy depending on your set-up. Yes, using a dedicated single cell charger is an advantage but the loss of voltage over the friction contacts on the cell holders kind of negates this.

Nope, when it comes to convenience, dedicated cell packs win hands down in my opinion as long as you have a good quality pack with properly balanced cells. Just plug in the charger and you're good to go. I tried using a cell holder for a while but after several rides I just got tired of removing the cells after every ride and charging them. Too much of an inconvenience and the dedicated battery packs usually have better mounting solutions to boot. Price is no longer the deciding factor. Anyway, to each their own.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ive never had to "charge cells separately" every time. With good cells I balance before install (doesn't matter whether welded pack or not, cells not balanced at first pack is going to suck) in case and haven't removed from my fenix case since. Same with solarstorm or any other option (880 clone case). Panasonic cells, let balance overnight and done.



But again, its only because these packs weren't available when I bought my stuff.



After going back and forth, im ordering one of these packs to try out and like you said Cat, just convenient. Especially when I keep taking my ncr18650ga cells from my helmet fenix case to test them against regular Panasonic ncr18650b and other cells in my flashlights. the "GA" versions are superior by alot against everything except the "B"s, but still noticeable gains in the sphere on anything that draws more than 2Amps. Even against my Samsung 30b 4.35V cells.


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## McGuillicuddy (Jul 14, 2007)

Anybody know if the 4-cell flat pack is rubber-encased like the others? The picture shows that it just comes shrink-wrapped which doesn't give much support to the connections to the wire lead. 

I'm a bit paranoid about support for the wire lead because my last pack (came with the Solarstorm light) shorted and caught fire when the wiring where the lead meets the little PCB shorted to one of the cells. Fortunately it started smoking right in my hands so I could immediately toss it in the snow bank.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

There is a thread about 2S2P FLAT pack -> http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...0mah-flat-battery-pack-kaidomain-1000490.html


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

I've been using the packs referenced in this post for the past couple weeks. No issues. Working as designed and doing a little guesstimation, it looks like I'd get at least 3 hours from the pack while running my SolarStorm X2 on high.

I have also ordered 4 of the 2 cell packs and I will put those through the wringer, with the intent of using them for an 18 hour solo race in a few months.


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## McGuillicuddy (Jul 14, 2007)

Can anybody comment on what would be the recommended quality charger (with compatible connector) for these great packs?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

8.4v charger with 5.4mm dc connector. Try to avoid cheap Chinese ones unless you have equipment to test the output. Magicshine ones from action-led-lights.com are good. There's a couple on amazon (takes some digging) as well that are shipped via amazon and not 3rd party.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I've just start to work on chargers again, but it will take quite some time. If you are going to search for a charger take a look for the 5.5x2.1mm connector.


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## McGuillicuddy (Jul 14, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> Magicshine ones from action-led-lights.com are good.


That would be this one?

MJ-6012 1.8A Battery Charger | Magicshine Canada

The 8.4V chargers I have now came with my Solar storm lights but they have "Power Adapter" in red lettering on them which I understand is a bad sign.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yes, usually a bad sign. Good sign is saying "Li-ion Charger" on them (still need confirmed good - just need a voltmeter). There are some decent Cheap Chinese ones. Ledoman showed me awhile back. Let me see if I can grab a link.

-Garry


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Here you go. Same seller I bought from 2 years ago: 8 4V Charger for XM L T6 P7LED Bicycle Headlight and Headlamp Light Battery Pack | eBay

-Garry


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## mentawais (Feb 16, 2005)

*6 cell pack*



tigris99 said:


> 8.4v charger with 5.4mm dc connector. Try to avoid cheap Chinese ones unless you have equipment to test the output. Magicshine ones from action-led-lights.com are good. There's a couple on amazon (takes some digging) as well that are shipped via amazon and not 3rd party.


Can I use this charger to 6 cell or 8 cell pack??:thumbsup:


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yes, you only need to match voltage. It may charge slow, but it will work. (1.8A is much higher than the Chinese "1A" chargers though) I think rule of thumb is to aim for 0.5C charge rate. So a 6,000mAh pack (true capacity) can be charged at 3A.

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not to be rude here but that question keeps getting asked and I don't understand why.

8.4V Pack= 8.4V charger. 

That's it.

NUMBER OF CELLS DOES NOT MATTER, 8 cell pack is nothing more than a giant 2 cell, high capacity pack. All that matters is the VOLTAGE.


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## McGuillicuddy (Jul 14, 2007)

garrybunk said:


> Here you go. Same seller I bought from 2 years ago: 8 4V Charger for XM L T6 P7LED Bicycle Headlight and Headlamp Light Battery Pack | eBay
> 
> -Garry


Thanks Garry. So this cheap charger is considered as safe as the Magicshine charger? (although presumably much slower at 1A vs 1.8A)


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## McGuillicuddy (Jul 14, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> Not to be rude here but that question keeps getting asked and I don't understand why.
> 
> 8.4V Pack= 8.4V charger.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I should have been more specific in my post. I wasn't asking about voltage (since matching an 8.4V pack to an 8.4V charger seems pretty intuitive), but more along the lines of which charger would a) have a compatible connection, and more importantly, b) be considered safe.

I think I will just spring for the MagicShine 1.8A which can be sourced from a Canadian vendor, and seems by all accounts to be a quality unit.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I don't know if it's as safe as the MS one (doubt it) but it's a decent cheap option. Mine charges at about 0.9A and does reduce current as voltage approaches 8.4A (indicating it's using some type of proper CC/CV charge algorithm. Voltage output unloaded also checks good around 8.45v (can't remember exact voltage). This is all based on receiving the exact same charger I received.

I'd still recommend pulling charger off when green (and/or measuring 8.4v).

-Garry


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## McGuillicuddy (Jul 14, 2007)

Looking at the pictures above from ledoman, wouldn't the proximity of the black wire to the metal lead ("B-") represent a safety liability? With the tumbling and shaking these packs endure over time (either being attached to the frame or in a pack/jersey) I can see that wire rubbing back and forth against the sharp edge of that flat B- connector and wearing through to cause a short. Am I just being paranoid?

Something not unlike that happened to me with the pack that came with one my my Solarstorm X2s, but admittedly that pack was crap.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

I've had three MagicShine chargers bite the dust in past couple years, two after very short and little use.

Just ordered a couple 2A chargers on eBay. They accepted my offer of $7.50 a piece and will come e-Packet delivery from Hong Kong within one week to one month (usually less than a week in my experience.) So should be good to go with the new packs from Kaidomain. Thanks again ledoman! P.S.: You need to empty your mailbox. ;-)


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

2A charger link?

-Garry


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Sorry Garry:

US 8.4V 2A charger adapter adaptor for Lithium Ion Battery Li-ion LiPo 2S

Posted it earlier in my thread about Repurposing Surplus Bicycle Lights.

The asking price was $7.99 but they accepted my offer of [email protected]$15. Dunno if they'd take $7.50 for a single unit, because shipping. Guess there's one way to find out! ;-)


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

That is the same crap charger, including Model#, that I received with one of the Nitefighters I received from Gearbest.
I can't remember if this was the one that didn't work at all.....or the one that would give a partial charge.
Hope it works out better for you.



andychrist said:


> Sorry Garry:
> 
> US 8.4V 2A charger adapter adaptor for Lithium Ion Battery Li-ion LiPo 2S
> 
> ...


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

the mayor said:


> That is the same crap charger, including Model#, that I received with one of the Nitefighters I received from Gearbest.
> I can't remember if this was the one that didn't work at all.....or the one that would give a partial charge.
> Hope it works out better for you.


Well the charger I recieved with my Nightfighter BT40S has been working flawlessly for close to two years now. But it does not look exactly like this version from Hong Kong and its model number is different too.









Both the BT40S and BT21 full kits supposedly include the same charger I have, at least as pictured on their website. Which Nightfighter that you received came with this? If the BT40S that might explain the problems you are having with the lamp, could mean GearBest shipped you a clone and not the genuine article. Especially since you are the only one here who had any real issues with it other than the crappy plastic mount. Sorry I can't remember, have you uploaded any photos? That could help clear things up. Also I suspect if you are having issues with the charger as well, a non-quality battery pack might be the proper explanation. Because even my crappiest chargers, ones that came with $13 light sets, work fine with good cells. But it can be very difficult to charge up a crap battery pack. And if you received a clone kit, would be highly unlikely to have come with a BAK pack.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Speaking of chargers...just received my new MagicShine MJ-906 (ridiculously bright flood) and it came with a much nicer looking charger than what I've received before. Not sure if it is technically any better, but here are a couple pics...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Andy, they changed the chargers after a while. I have 2 different chargers from nitefighter directly. First with original bt21 matches yours. Other is different/cheaper and one that went through gearbest.

There is no "Nitefighter clones" in existence. But increased probing/research has explained the issues either mostly or totally:

When a retailer keeps wanting lower wholesale prices (using qty orders, etc) to try and beat out competitor pricing, the manufacturer starts to source cheaper components in order to maintain their own profitability.

This is why we see so many lights start decent and turn to crap. Manufacturer has to put policies in place to correct this issue. That's why we see MAP and such.

Nitefighter has the ability to be a step above the junk, they need to stop worrying about competing against the cheap junk and worry more about making a stand out brand.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

andychrist said:


> Well the charger I recieved with my Nightfighter BT40S has been working flawlessly for close to two years now. But it does not look exactly like this version from Hong Kong and its model number is different too.
> .


I have both 40 and 21.(or I should say had)
They came with slightly different chargers ( different/smaller casing and led is on different sides).
The 1 that came with the 40 would charge , then the green light would come on and it would stop charging....but the battery would not have a full charge( which I didn't know until the light died 1 hour into a ride).
The 21 came with a charger that was dead out of the box.
I have them a a junk box that will go to a recycle center soon.
Just because there's a picture on Gearbest's site....doesn't mean that's what you'll get.
The good thing is the battery packs seem to be pretty good...been using the hell out them.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Well GearBest should take responsibility for shipping items as pictured. If either they or the supplier is going to make substitutions then the product photos and info should reflect that. 

Too bad that Nightfighter can't both keep up with demand and exert better quality control but they too are at the mercy of their suppliers. 

Hope the chargers I ordered are okay, checked feedback from the vendor and could find nothing but praise for that particular item.

How long does shipping from Kaidomain take on the new flat packs and two cells, anybody know? Don't want to wait until Spring to get mine. Wonder why they'd don't offer e-Packet, that's super fast and must be cheap because I've bought a lot incredibly inexpensive goods from Hong Kong that way and the shipping was always either free or under a dollar plus combined was available too. (Um, KD does ship from HK, right?) Also with Regular Air Mail versus Registered, do you still get a tracking number? I know that Registered tends to slow down delivery in the States because the item has to go through many check points so would prefer Regular, as long as I could still monitor the package's progress.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Hello,
as we now have high Quality 6800mAh packs are ther nice Quality 4400 - 5000mAh packs also around?
Thanks


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Let me get this right; you want lower capacity packs? Just choose the 2S1P NCR18650GA pack - two 3500mAh cells.

-Garry


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

hmm... thats too low capacity!
aren't there 4400mAh packs which consists of BAK cells around?
or with 2600mAh Samsung cells (gives 5600mAh pack)


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm not aware of BAK cell packs available for separate purchase. Samsung built packs (and more Panasonic/Sanyos) are available from Hunk Lee on Ebay, but these new Panasonic packs at KD & GB are "the ones to buy" for best bang for your buck.

-Garry


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

yes thanks, i'm Aware of th hunklee packs but they miss the Silicone boot, the pouch and the right plug, so they are a nogo for my use!

what about this one from dx:
4400mAh External Battery Pack with Pouch for SKU 29489/30864 (4*18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

are there opinions or reviews about that pack?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Would you explain why are you seeking for 4400mAh while you have here better 6800mAh for almost the same price? 
AFAIK the pack you have linked should be geniue Magicshine pack introduced 2010 at the times of their MJ-808 lights. There should be BAK cells inside, though, but who knows how old they are.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Most likley cheap no-name Chinese cells not even reaching 4400mAh capacity. Why on earth would you want to spend money on that one when for nearly the same price you can get reputable tested & reviewed 2S2P Panasonic 6800mAh pack? I don't understand. (Correct connector, thick 20AWG cable, silicone boot, and case.)

-Garry


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

yes you'r right - stick with the KD packs is the best Option at the Moment!
thanks ledoman for working them out for us!
btw any News on the relieable charger you are working on?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Unfortunately not yet. The factory people are still on hollidays. I've been told the factory (producing chargers we have already tested) will be contacted next week. 
At KD wanted to finish all those battery stuff first and then moved to another topic.


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## McGuillicuddy (Jul 14, 2007)

For anybody interested, I purchased 2 of 4-cell battery packs from this thread. They showed up in about 2 weeks from KD. After charging them with MagicShine chargers I rode with them in the cold last night on my fat bike - temperature was around -12C. I was able to happily run each of my SolarStorm X2 (1 head, 1 bar) on high for the full 2 hours and still had 3 indicators by the end. Very happy with that result. I couldn't go anywhere near that on the battery pack that came with the lights, even in the warm weather.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Of course, as tittle says the KD ones are *quality* packs  . One of those is twice as good as two crappy SSX2 packs together. I'm glad you are satisfied.


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## McGuillicuddy (Jul 14, 2007)

ledoman said:


> Of course, as tittle says the KD ones are *quality* packs  . One of those is twice as good as two crappy SSX2 packs together. I'm glad you are satisfied.


And as long as they don't catch fire like the crappy SSX2 pack did, I'll be 100% satisfied! .


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## lemke (Feb 13, 2015)

I've been following this thread... great banter. I was wondering if these packs would be a direct plug-in to the Gloworm 'X' series lights.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

McGuillicuddy said:


> And as long as they don't catch fire like the crappy SSX2 pack did, I'll be 100% satisfied! .


No they won't even if you treat them bit bad. OK, no need to treat them that way, but they can stand more than you think. Overall they are Panasonic cells one of the best on planet.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

lemke said:


> I've been following this thread... great banter. I was wondering if these packs would be a direct plug-in to the Gloworm 'X' series lights.


Based on the pictures HERE I would say YES.


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## lemke (Feb 13, 2015)

I was assuming so... just wanted to be sure Gloworm XS and X2 were using the same 6/2.1 connector. Action LED makes no mention of the size.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

My 2 cell pack is on the way from Kaidomain. Running it on the helmet with my x2. Any ideas on runtime with this setup?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

The connector should be 5.5x2.1mm not 6/2.1, but I think they are standard Magicshine. Maybe someone of the owners would confirm it or you can ask Jim at Action LED.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Dirt Road said:


> My 2 cell pack is on the way from Kaidomain. Running it on the helmet with my x2. Any ideas on runtime with this setup?


Tell me how much current does it pull on Hi, then we can calculate the runtime. You might find this data on someones review.


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## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

X2 plug works with 2 celll and 4 cell packs; I have all three


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yes gloworm connectors are the same as the rest, these packs work perfectly.

Gloworm x2 is 2-2.5A draw through its cycle. >~1.5hr run time on high with the 2 cell pack (same cells I use in my 2cell fenix case). 

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Chowder Head (Sep 26, 2010)

Has anyone had one of these expedited from Kaidomain? I need one for a race in three weeks so I can't risk the normal route.

Matt


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Expedited to where? I'm shure it is not equal on the whole world.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

He's in the States.

Fastest option is dhl but last I knew that was stupid expensive with them. Haven't checked in a while.

Also need to make sure they have them in stock so your not waiting 2 weeks before it even ships

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I would suggest him to contact *[email protected]* and ask what are the options.


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## Chowder Head (Sep 26, 2010)

thank you everyone, I left out that important tidbit, California. Thank you Ledoman, I will contact them.

Matt


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Chowder Head said:


> Has anyone had one of these expedited from Kaidomain? I need one for a race in three weeks so I can't risk the normal route.


fast shipping for quality packs from Jim at Action-LED
Current Sales: Action-LED-Lights


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## McGuillicuddy (Jul 14, 2007)

ledoman said:


> The connector should be 5.5x2.1mm not 6/2.1, but I think they are standard Magicshine. Maybe someone of the owners would confirm it or you can ask Jim at Action LED.


The 4-cell KD battery packs are compatible with my 2 official Magicshine chargers, if that helps. Also compatible with my SSX2 lights which use the MS connector.


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

Guys, I've read this whole thread and can use some input on these battery packs and a charger from those in the know...

If I was looking for the longest-lasting battery pack to stick in my camelback - preferably with a longer cord to eliminate the issues with connectors as mentioned in previous posts - what pack from KD would I choose?

Second, as a lightweight backup/spare I like the idea of the 2-cell packs, from the thread I'm thinking this one from KD would work, but is there a better/lighter one? http://kaidomain.com/product/details. S024746

Last, what about a good, safe charger for the batteries?

My family uses a few lights mix both bar and head... 
Xeccon Spiker 1210
Older MS lights that are still kicking
MS MJ-906 (just ordered to replace a Xeccon Sogn that bit the dust)
Gloworm XS X2 (just ordered from the refurb thread)

I know the MS and Xeccon have different cable ends but they do plug together... would be nice if the battery packs worked with all the lights??!?

Can any battery gurus suggest a long-lasting battery that will get me at least 3 hours on high, and then a light weight backup battery as suggested?

Tried picking through the list of batteries but for a layman like myself the ratings/voltage/etc on them is a bit overwhelming..


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

You answered all your own questions actually.

Best 2 cell is the one discussed here.

The best 4 and 6 cell packs are also discussed here.

Yes the MS style connectors and Xeccon connectors work together just fine. People try to bring up "well the connector isn't water proof" thing. It does NOT matter if the connector gets wet inside, as long as the battery packs and lights don't get water inside them, which the connectors have no involvement in.

Simple explanation of packs:

You always need 8.4v for these lights. Number of cells doesn't matter, just an 8.4v (sometimes you see ones that say 7.4v, same thing as 8.4v packs though for these)

The number of cells, 2-4-6-8 is used to increase run time. 2 cell has the lowest as it take 2 cells that are 4.2v each to make a 8.4v pack. 

Next is the capacity. The ????mah. The number is how many. Mah refers to the milliamp hours. The higher the number the longer the light will run on a charge. However MANY PACKS OUT THEIR ARE LYING on their capacity. They use fake and sometimes dangerous cells inside. 

The packs here use brand name cells (just as Xeccon and glowworm do) but these discusses here are the best brand there is currently. Panasonic 3400mah (per cell).

Depending on the light your using the 4 cell. 6800mah version will get you 3 hours. The bigger light like the XS will need the 6 cell/10200mah version to the 3 hr mark (probably a bit more). The 2 cell, 3500mah version would get you about 1-1.5hrs on something small like the x2.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

What tig says. Plus, your existing MagicShine & Xeccon & Gloworm chargers will charge these packs. (We're still struggling to get a good reliable safe "budget" charger option.) So long as the chargers are rated for "8.4v Lithium Ion" you are fine. The amperage rating will be fine for these quality Panasonic packs, but could be too high for cheap cell packs. 

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Take one of those http://www.kaidomain.com/Search/SearchResult.NCR/348
In general more mAh means more runtime. For 3 hours on hi I would suggest at least 6x cell pack since you have also powerfull lights.

I'm not aware of any much better 2x cell pack. You would hardly find any better for the price.

Not shure for the charger.

Xeccon has adapter cable for their square connector.


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

Thanks guys. I have some battery packs picked out. Need a good safe charger though!!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I hope your not picking out random (and cheapest) packs because they are not what the listing says. They have 3 packs, 2-4-6 cell versions using these Panasonic cells, that's it. Name of the packs have NCR18560B or in the case of the 2 cell version, it's NCR18650GA. rest are questionable at best (if not total junk and only have 2000mah) but they won't have anywhere near their stated capacity.

DONT BUY CHARGERS THERE. It's too risky you'll get what I have dubbed " Detonators ". Buy a wall charger from action-led-lights.com (or the magicshine ones are also available on Amazon, but make sure it's genuine magicshine charger, not just someone putting magicshine in the name)


Or just use your Xeccon charges they are the same thing. As are glowworm and other chargers it sounds like you have. All use the same connector. Only Xeccon lights and battery packs have different connector, charger uses the exact same one as everyone else.
Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

tigris99 said:


> Or just use your Xeccon charges they are the same thing. As are glowworm and other chargers it sounds like you have. All use the same connector. Only Xeccon lights and battery packs have different connector, charger uses the exact same one as everyone else.


Xeccon chargers I have use the same proprietary square-shaped connectors as their lights/extensions:
https://static2.keep4u.ru/2016/01/15/set.jpg
https://static2.keep4u.ru/2016/01/15/chrg_2.jpg

But they're compatible with common (round) ones, and could be used w/o problems...


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> I hope your not picking out random (and cheapest) packs because they are not what the listing says. They have 3 packs, 2-4-6 cell versions using these Panasonic cells, that's it. Name of the packs have NCR18560B or in the case of the 2 cell version, it's NCR18650GA. rest are questionable at best (if not total junk and only have 2000mah) but they won't have anywhere near their stated capacity.
> 
> DONT BUY CHARGERS THERE. It's too risky you'll get what I have dubbed " Detonators ". Buy a wall charger from action-led-lights.com (or the magicshine ones are also available on Amazon, but make sure it's genuine magicshine charger, not just someone putting magicshine in the name)
> 
> ...


I bought batteries only from Ledoman's link in post 287 above. I hope you have a typo in your battery model #'s... one says 560 one says 650!!

Still looking for a good source for additional chargers so I can charge more batteries at the same time


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya just a typo, all are supposed to say 650.

Archie, my Xeccon chargers are on the square plugs your right. But I have a couple chargers that the wall plug unit itself looks identical that have just the normal DC connector. Had to look through my pile and found the Xeccon chargers.

But they all work the same at least.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I have a 2cell pack on the way from KD. Is it advisable to use the Chargers from the bt40 and bt21 kits I have? They seem the same in appearance and labeling.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

As long as they are not cheap crap chargers, as long as their 8.4v the work fine regardless of number of cells.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

Magicshine makes an MJ-6012 which is the charger that just came in the MJ-906 light... they're on Ebay pretty cheap. Those should charge all the batteries, no?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Link on eBay or anywhere else?!


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

ledoman said:


> Link on eBay or anywhere else?!


MJ 6012 Battery Charger for MagicShine LED Bike Headlight | eBay

Sorry, should have done that above


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes it is good charger and can be used for most quality battery packs out there. Shipping on eBay is to expensive for other countries besides US.


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

ledoman said:


> Yes it is good charger and can be used for most quality battery packs out there. Shipping on eBay is to expensive for other countries besides US.


Thank you Ledoman, you're a big help to us less well informed on the lights and batteries. I appreciate the help.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

TomFL said:


> MJ 6012 Battery Charger for MagicShine LED Bike Headlight | eBay
> 
> Sorry, should have done that above


It looks like to me that the charger listed above is actually sold by Action LED Lights using their ebay store.


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

huckleberry hound said:


> It looks like to me that the charger listed above is actually sold by Action LED Lights using their ebay store.


Not sure who that is.... is that significant? Good/bad?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

AFAIK Action LED Lights is one of the best stores in USA. Good for their citizens, but to expensive for the rest of us. The postal fees are pretty high for the most countries outside the USA.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

They are an awesome company to deal with. Not going to lie, it's really hard to want to buy cheap after the deal I got on the refurbished x2. Jim is just really good to his customers regardless of how much or how little you spend with him.

And ya shipping is expensive due to the very high risks shipping to other countries (theft and loss once outside of the US)

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

ledoman said:


> Yes it is good charger and can be used for most quality battery packs out there. Shipping on eBay is to expensive for other countries besides US.


Hey Ledoman, sorry for the thread hijack, does Melanija Knavs get a lot of press over there?



ledoman said:


> AFAIK Action LED Lights is one of the best stores in USA. Good for their citizens, but to expensive for the rest of us. The postal fees are pretty high for the most countries outside the USA.


Time to start planning that California Vacation, let us know, we can show you around Auburn and Tahoe!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes, but not to much, mostly in relation with the US elections and Donald Trump of course. But we should stick with the OP.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

They are an awesome company to deal with. Not going to lie, it's really hard to want to buy cheap after the deal I got on the refurbished x2. Jim is just really good to his customers regardless of how much or how little you spend with him.

I'm with you on that one Tig. When my Nitefighters crap out, I'll prolly bite the bullet on an xs. Paired with a KD 6 cell of course!


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

Well that's good to know, I purchased a pair of gloworm refurbs from him and they arrived today, was very happy.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

OK, lets stick with the batteries from OP.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

HKJs review of very similar 6800mAh pack from Gearbest:

Test/Review of GB 8.4V (7.2V) 6800mAh battery pack | BudgetLightForum.com


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nice, full HKJ review! Love those.

The packs come from one supplier. Except of course the change to 20awg wasn't done yet. I told GB it needed to be done especially since the description says it is. HKJ's pics, one if you look close at the top of the post shows the same wire my 6 cell has. 22awg. Really not a huge deal for cheap chinese lights but using them with good lights at higher currents (not sure what current we would start to see the downside of the smaller wire)

His complaint about stress relief though I think he missed the fact that the rubber case provides that. It isnt great but even "branded" packs we see the exact same thing without issues.

Obviously GB isnt going to put the effort in that KD will for making the packs "perfect" for the price.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Thank you pointing out about cabling AWG Gearbest is using.

Hopefuly HKJ will help us to measure connectors resistance. This is missing element in the equatations we can/should use.


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

How long between order placement and receipt of product are you guys seeing on these batteries? Just curious as I'm in no rush but I placed my order about 2 weeks ago so I assume they should be here soon?


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I'm waiting on a 2cell from KD ordered 2/19. My 4 cell pack from Gearbest along with 2 panny 18650 batts were apparently resent after I opened a ticket. I pointed out that the tracking info stated that my order was "not fit for air delivery". So im kinda in limbo on the situation.
Meanwhile, back in the USA, my refurb xs is on the way. Ordered from Action LED on sat. USPS delivery on wed!


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

Dirt Road said:


> I'm waiting on a 2cell from KD ordered 2/19. My 4 cell pack from Gearbest along with 2 panny 18650 batts were apparently resent after I opened a ticket. I pointed out that the tracking info stated that my order was "not fit for air delivery". So im kinda in limbo on the situation.
> Meanwhile, back in the USA, my refurb xs is on the way. Ordered from Action LED on sat. USPS delivery on wed!


Similar experience here... ordered just short of a month ago, contacted them yesterday because the tracking # they provided with the order said it was not valid.

I got this message: "Due to the safeguard aviation security, all the packages that is contained batteries cannot ship via Hong Kong Airmail. And i found your package had returned to us"

They said they would ship it out yesterday via DHL for 4-5 day shipping.

YMMV... but I wouldn't order from here if you're in a hurry lol. Hopefully they batteries are worth it.


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

I ordered a few battery packs from KD on March 14th. Still saying, Order Pending-waiting to be packed. Not sure whats going on here.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Ask them at [email protected] and provide order #


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

Strange says its shipped now. Cant wait to test out the batteries out on the Gloworm x2 i just got.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

They might read this thread or you send them your brain waves


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Holy cow. Tracking has one of my battery packs in Flushing NY! My KD pack is still overseas in Sweden post. It was ordered on 2/06. Mite get it for Xmas at this rate!


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

Dirt Road said:


> Holy cow. Tracking has one of my battery packs in Flushing NY! My KD pack is still overseas in Sweden post. It was ordered on 2/06. Mite get it for Xmas at this rate!


You are much more patient than me. I'll give my packs till Tuesday to get here, then the order will be cancelled and I'll call the CC company. There is no reason an order should take two months to deliver. Snail mail from China takes 1/2 that for cryin' out loud.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I believe it's the fault of the Li ion ban on airlines. It's not KD per se. I did get some 18650 cells today from Gearbest, so I'm hopeful. I have the bak packs from the bt21/bt40 that I'm using for now. They get decent run times and r doing quite good, for now...


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Bak packs are quite good. Good quality cells just take care of them like any other and they'll be fine.

I've had 0 issues with Li-Ion cell shipments but the increased regulations gearbest and kd obviously haven't figured out how to do it yet. Their not banned for air travel just have to use proper shipping method and documentation. I believe the only "ban" is on passenger airlines. I know companies like DHL, FedEx, ups and some version of USPS have ways for air transport.

The bigger problem is that places like kd and GB sell so cheap and use free shipping so they literally use the cheapest option they can find. And it changes every month.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

Following up to add that I got my battery packs tonight, all looks good although have not used them as of yet. 

Interestingly, both the 6 cell/10,200 MAH pack and the 8 cell/13,600 MAH packs are labeled "model 50C 22.2V 4000mAh battery 88.8WH" Not sure what that's all about, I'm assuming they are incorrectly labeled. **hoping they're not actually 22.2v lol..


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Glad Your packs arrived! Hopefully mine r close to delivering. Interested in run times on that 8 cylinder hemi pack!


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

Dirt Road said:


> Glad Your packs arrived! Hopefully mine r close to delivering. Interested in run times on that 8 cylinder hemi pack!


I'll be riding tomorrow night so I'll have a better idea after that. I'm just as interested


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

What light will you be using?

Run time is extremely easy to figure out without trying to run till it's dead. You can't do it with cheap cells but with brand name cells which are within 90% of rated capacity (instead of around or less than 50%). So just need to know the current draw of the light.

Battery capacity for instance is 10000mah. That equals 10Ah or 10amps for 1 hour. So a light that draws 2 amps would last at least 5hrs. Probably about 4-4.5 before dropping regulation, with 1-1.5 after that before protection engages and shuts off the light.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> What light will you be using?
> 
> Run time is extremely easy to figure out without trying to run till it's dead. You can't do it with cheap cells but with brand name cells which are within 90% of rated capacity (instead of around or less than 50%). So just need to know the current draw of the light.
> 
> ...


That would be something to compare vs real life use. I'll be using it with one of two lights, a Magicshine MJ-906 or the gloworm XS.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Of course things like what mode and everything will come into play. But easy to calculate run time based on staying in one mode all the time. So if we figure out being on high all the time it will give you a "minimum" runtime.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

How do I find amp draw specs for the Gloworm XS and the Magicshine MJ-906?? Curious to see the the difference - if any - of real life vs theoretical


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hopefully someone sees this and posts up. Im just about to order an xs, Jim at action-led-lights probably has the answer though if you want to email him.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Hopefully someone sees this and posts up. Im just about to order an xs, Jim at action-led-lights probably has the answer though if you want to email him.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


I wouldn't let the answer deter you from ordering. I've had a bunch of lights over the years and the XS is impressive, especially at the price point they're letting them go for now.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

TomFL, what's yr experience with the mj906 battery? I had a 906 briefly and I had concerns about the stock battery, namely run times. What's yr opinion? Sorry off topic...


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

Dirt Road said:


> TomFL, what's yr experience with the mj906 battery? I had a 906 briefly and I had concerns about the stock battery, namely run times. What's yr opinion? Sorry off topic...


No issues yet at all but haven't yet used it for more than 2 hours at a clip.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

TomFL said:


> Following up to add that I got my battery packs tonight, all looks good although have not used them as of yet.
> 
> Interestingly, both the 6 cell/10,200 MAH pack and the 8 cell/13,600 MAH packs are labeled "model 50C 22.2V 4000mAh battery 88.8WH" Not sure what that's all about, I'm assuming they are incorrectly labeled. **hoping they're not actually 22.2v lol..


Tom, I surprised that no one commented on this ( ^ ) post from last week. If I saw "that labeling" that you have, bells and whistles would be going off in my head. I would definitely have to do voltage measurement at the plug before trying to either charge or use the batteries. Were you able to verify the voltage and Ah rating on your KD batteries?


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## TomFL (Feb 6, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Tom, I surprised that no one commented on this ( ^ ) post from last week. If I saw "that labeling" that you have, bells and whistles would be going off in my head. I would definitely have to do voltage measurement at the plug before trying to either charge or use the batteries. Were you able to verify the voltage and Ah rating on your KD batteries?


I haven't been able to do either unfortunately. I believe I did use and charge one of those batteries twice so far without issues so I believe it is mismarked for sure. I've gotten 3+ hours out of the 8-cell so far but I know that's not the limit.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

My 2 cell pack is in the Sweden postal system. I contacted KD and they said wait 3 more weeks, friend. Jeez it's only been 2months and change. But I did receive a 4 cell pack from GEarbest. 32 days from order to receipt.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

KD has done that stuff before, just like GB does. List an item as if in stock, sell too many and tons of people are left waiting. It's what happened with the final BT21's that were sold before the light was discontinued.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Dirt Road said:


> My 2 cell pack is in the Sweden postal system. I contacted KD and they said wait 3 more weeks, friend. Jeez it's only been 2months and change. But I did receive a 4 cell pack from GEarbest. 32 days from order to receipt.


Hmmm...If you paid for expedited shipping I would have expected better. When it comes to batteries; It's not unusual for KD to run out. If these were just loose cells it probably wouldn't be much of a delay but since these battery are "custom" per say, that means that someone has to assemble the packs first. I knew that when this thread started that eventually there would be delays. I guess if you want the lower price than you have to wait. Of course the problem is exacerbated by the fact that it still remains very difficult to get batteries transported via air.

These packs are no doubt a popular item with KD so stock is always going to be an on-going issue ( as will shipping Li-ion products overseas in general ). For people who don't want to wait you can still buy great batteries from Xeccon ( MTBrevolution ) for a decent price. _You will pay more_ for the Xeccons but you'll get a better battery bag and get the stuff *within a week ( *if you are in the continental U.S. ). With that in mind, if you need the stuff within a month you can roll the dice with KD or get the stuff pronto with Xeccon, your choice. ( Not hawking for Xeccon but if you spend more than $66 you get free shipping. Buy the 6800mah set with a set of O-rings you get free shipping :yesnod: ) ( **Keep in mind that Xeccon runs out of stuff too so if you need something don't delay! AND...if you have questions on what they have in stock don't be afraid to ASK before you order. )


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

If you are in doubt about KD packs you can always ask at *[email protected]*.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Yep, the allure of cheap prices got me this time! There are a few different options I should have taken like CMD said. But I like saving a buck or two. Like buying PBR instead of IPA! I've emailed KD and they seem to want to help. I've not given up hope.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Hooray! My 2cell from KD has hit the states, seems to have stalled in Chicago. Bloody heck. Been sitting there since the 10th apr.


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

I ended getting my packs last week. I ran a discharge test and got 6707mAh on the 4 cell version. Does the light go green on the cheap 1A chargers. Or do i have to keep a eye on it and use a multimeter and get it to 8.40v.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

...^^^...I think you only need to check it once. If it tops off between 8.38 and 8.42 you should be good. If you got 6707mAh in a discharge test you got a good battery. As long as the cells are matched/balanced you should be good to go.


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## Mantelimies (Sep 3, 2015)

Hi! I read through the entire thread, but could not find any mention of a safe charger for these batteries which would also ship to Europe (more specifically Denmark) with a sensible cost. Do you know if any of the chargers in Kaidomain or Gearbest would be suitable and safe? If not, any ideas where to start looking? Thanks for the answers!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Unfortunately there are not many really good chargers out there. The one from KD is currently under inspection. Mine sample has 8.51V output which is just on the highest alowable end (4.255V per cell) if left unattended for longer time. The light goes green at 8.45V when one needs to disconnect it from the battery.

You may search for Magicshine 2.5A EU plug charger or Hank Lee one (untested from our side so no garantie it's any better).

On the other hand you may use hobby charger if you have one.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

I had a 8.4V 1A charger from hunk lee and i still have a 16,8V 2,5A charger from him.
What i can say is that both shut off the charge process at a save level, just before hitting the 4.2V/cell mark.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Hopefuly that's true. Namely I've never had any charger that realy shuts-off charging current. They do turn red light to green, but the charging process never stops until top voltage is reached. An example from HKJ test shows how the most chargers works:
http://lygte-info.dk/pic/LiIon%20Charger%202S/WJT-0068/WJT-0068%20(4xPA18650-31).png










Yellow line shows the point when status light goes from red to green.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Hi, yes - thats true! 
No real shutt off, but that is no problem if the voltage is at a safe level!
I did a test yesterday with my hunk lee 4s 2.5A charger and it stops charging at about 4,18V/cell ~ 16,74V total. :thumbsup:
Thus the light goes green at about 16,65V..... :eekster:


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes I see. Your charger is OK and on the safe side with the output voltage, so the cut-off is not really necessary, but would be good for better safety. I've dealt only with 2S chargers for tipical 8.4V lights and I've seen quite few have overvoltage. Some cheapo ones had very dangerous level at about 10V. So I'm prety picky about them.

Anyway, any charger should be proved and checked for the proper output voltage.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Yes - i fully agree with you! :thumbsup:
I also have seem many 8.4V chargers with dangerous over voltages. 
Measuring the Output voltage of such chargers should be one of the first things when dealing with them.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Well I had to open a paypal dispute on Kaidomain. Have not received my 2 cell pack ordered back in February 2016. I'm tired of KD telling me to be patient. I can easily update this to a claim but I'll give em a few days. KD is the only website that has not delivered. I have multiple Gearbest/BANGGOOD orders with 0 issues.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wow February and still nothing. Glad I chose not to order anything from them (had problems with my very first order, they lied about when it was shipped when actually wasn't till 2 weeks later)

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Dirt Road, have you got tracking #? For the price you probably should. Who did you contact, was it [email protected]? I agree February is way to long, but you probably should act sooner. (maybe you did)

I don't know any China seller who does not have some sort of issue from time to time. So it is just matter of time when you'll get into it somewhere. I had may issues with Gearbest in the last year and one with Banggood this year so you can't say they are any better.

I can try to help if you give me some details on private.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Yes I've sent them several emails. They say "Be patient friend." I'm done. PayPal dispute open. i don't have a lot of time now because I was waiting very patiently and my 180 days of PayPal coverage is coming to an end.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

The funny thing is I received a 4 and 6 cell from Gearbest. The 4 cell was reviewed by HJC and stated the pack was in spec. But no more. Good enuff for me. Good pack jacked to my gw x2. The 6cell, I never came close with my gw xs. In runtime I always was out way before the light


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I have the good 6 cell from gearbest (I did a brief review of it) and it's in spec as well. Not hard to be "in spec" just have to use the cells that are claimed are used. Brand name cells are always in spec. Cheap crap almost never is. My main 4 cell pack was the 4 cell Panasonic pack (reviewed here by ledoman, but I got mine from gearbest) and that's been my bar light pack since I got it last summer. Haven't had a need for the 6 cell, even my longest rides I never need that much since I don't just sit on high mode from start to finish. 2 cell and 4 cell is enough for me, though 4 cell I can get 3-4 rides before it's all the way down to the point it needs to be recharged.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Agreed. My 6 cell from GB is on point. It's nothing on weight compared to a 4 cell. But I want my 2cell pack with a new helmet with my xs. I've been waiting! Wtf


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Dirt Road, you did no tell if you have got tracking# or not.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya a good 2 cell is nice for helmet use BUT it's not going to last that long on an XS if you dont regulate how you use your modes and at best your going to get 1.5hrs of use. My 2 cell set up is not something you can buy. I use a hard plastic Fenix case that I've modified to reduce resistance, use unprotected cells, and regulate my use. So when I stop on longer rides the light gets turned off unless it's shorter rides, then just down to low mode.

So make sure you know what your dealing with once you can get a 2 cell pack (though seems KD can't deliver anymore)

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Ledoman pointed out to me that it's not really Kaidomains fault. My pack shows by tracking that it's sitting in Chicago hasn't moved since April. I have defended KD in this thread saying it's prolly the restrictions imposed for transporting li-on batteries. But I have paid for this pack and haven't received it. Meanwhile I've ordered 2 other packs from Gearbest and got them in a months time.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Still KDs fault in my book there, if it's sitting in Chicago, means KD didn't **** the battery pack correctly. Means your out the money now (PayPal doesnt protect buyers anymore from Chinese sellers) and no battery pack.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

USPS is notorious for sending parcels astray after they've gone through Customs. DR, have you contacted them at Customer Service?


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I've had them get sent to the wrong end of the country more than once (a couple nasty emails put an end to that for a little while at least) bug NEVER EVER have I had one "stuck" in customs for almost 3 months. And ive been at this buying things now and again from China directly for about 10 yrs now. Only issue ive had was one pakage being stolen at customs intake in Chicago (customs officer I spoke with got it handled and I was cut a check via the insurance for the value of the box). But even that took 3 weeks.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

tigris99 said:


> Still KDs fault in my book there, if it's sitting in Chicago, means KD didn't **** the battery pack correctly. Means your out the money now (PayPal doesnt protect buyers anymore from Chinese sellers) and no battery pack.


Tig, how do you know that KD didn't ship the battery pack correctly? Not only Chinese make mistakes. I agree they should put out some query with postal office (Sweedish in this case), but we also don't know when Dirt Road contacted KD and what they were talking so we can't tell for shure. The fact is the mistakes happens and will. It is just matter of time when you get involved. Someone might be lucky, someone not. 
I might tell quite some stories with Gearbest I had, but I don't blame them all the time. I've never got 3 orders. They had general problem with China Post.

In this case KD gave Dirt Road the tracking# so both could act on time when things evidently went wrong. Since the Chinese have different culture we need to communicate with them bit differently. Tipicaly we learn it on hard way (including me).


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I like saving a buck. It could very well be a usps issue but I'd be very wery of ordering stuff from KD. That being said, there's prolly a thousand happy customers that ordered the same item with good success. It's the Chinese lottery, and I play it often, so my time was due. There's more than enough stories about Gearbest and BANGGOOD. I'm a good sport and don't get *****y with my emails. I realize a lot has to go right and it's not all on Kaidomain.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh I know mistakes can happen on this end, but one hing I've not had happen in recent years is something sit in customs for weeks/months. First ive ever heard of it happeneing as well.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

tigris99 said:


> .......(PayPal doesnt protect buyers anymore from Chinese sellers) ......


Forgot to ask what did you mean by that. Never heard for something like this. Can you please explain? Maybe we should go to different thread about this topic....


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## onimkron (Jul 10, 2016)

Sorry if this is the wrong place for this type of question, but I was wondering if anyone has ordered from the UK, and if so, how long it took for your battery to arrive? I purchased a battery on the 19th last month, but it hasn't turned up yet. 

Support e-mail says it usually takes 15 days, but the thing is the tracking number they've given me doesn't seem to work on any tracking website, even though they said that "It just can track the package left China and there is no more update tracking information" although now, rather conveniently, they can "Now we can ship E-PACK with battery package to UK, and there is tracking information." 

Maybe I'm just getting antsy, I hate buying stuff from chinese websites, can never tell when my items will arrive.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

To the U.S. Gearbest/BANGGOOD usually takes 1-3wks. Those websites have really improved shipping times recently (even batteries). As far as KD I'm not sure, but they prolly all use a similar shipping method. When I order overseas, I try my best to forget, then when it arrives yessss!!


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

onimkron said:


> Sorry if this is the wrong place for this type of question, but I was wondering if anyone has ordered from the UK, and if so, how long it took for your battery to arrive? I purchased a battery on the 19th last month, but it hasn't turned up yet.
> 
> Support e-mail says it usually takes 15 days, but the thing is the tracking number they've given me doesn't seem to work on any tracking website, even though they said that "It just can track the package left China and there is no more update tracking information" although now, rather conveniently, they can "Now we can ship E-PACK with battery package to UK, and there is tracking information."
> 
> Maybe I'm just getting antsy, I hate buying stuff from chinese websites, can never tell when my items will arrive.


Would you give me tracking and order # on private. Will forward to KD.

Last night I've got message from them saying:

"Since the prohibition of the battery is happened again, there is some delayed for shipping the package that is contained the battery. As i know some countries will take a very long delivery time. We had tried our best to ship out those battery packages. I hope they can understand with us. "

Anyone should politely try to contact [email protected]. If they don't answer I can try to help. They also said they will try to open direct support account here on the forum.

For me in EU 3weeks is an average to get things delivered. US is tipicaly faster since more cargo planes flies their direction (besides I got feeling postal services give US bit priority). Batteries are sometimes problematic and dependable on the postal service that allow Litium based batteries.


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## banl (Jul 10, 2016)

Dear MTBR friends,

I am the representative of Kaidomain.com KD. I know there is some delivery problems on the battery pack package.

Due to the safeguard aviation security, shipping the Li-ion battery required some more times. Please don't be worried. If the delivered time is abnormal or package lost, we would refund or re-send it. Hope you can understand with us.

If you have any problem, you can send me a message and i would help to follow and try my best to solve out the problem.

Best Regards

Ban

Support @ kaidomain.com KD
Email: [email protected]


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## banl (Jul 10, 2016)

I am also want to Thanks to ledoman.

He is volunteer to help KD.

If you have any problems, please contact me BanL here or [email protected]

We would help to follow and solve out your problems.

Thanks


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Dirt Road said:


> To the U.S. Gearbest/BANGGOOD usually takes 1-3wks. Those websites have really improved shipping times recently (even batteries). As far as KD I'm not sure, but they prolly all use a similar shipping method. When I order overseas, I try my best to forget, then when it arrives yessss!!


After my last order from HunkLee turned out to be crap I ordered a couple of 18650GA 2 packs on Jun24 from KD, almost here.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Nice to hear that. Report it back if the battery packs are OK. What was wrong with the HankLee one?


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

I dont' have any test equipment but 20-30mins max on my gloworm X2 for the 2cell and one hour on the 4cell. Both "supposed" to be NCR18650B Panasonic cells.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

No way those packs are legit (what happens when people want to be cheap lol). I have ran the tests (plus I use the set up every ride) and a 2 cell should last bit over an hour, a 4 cell around 2.5hrs.

Seems he is trying to play the same bs other China sellers do.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

OK. We should move this to proper thread and continiue there -> http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/hunk-lee-batteries-941686-3.html#post12725576


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I ordered a 3500maH rubberized battery pack from KD- I figured I was in no hurry.
It arrived after 20 days total, with a nice little velcro case, and some freebies- a lens cleaner cloth and a bog-quality AA flashlight too. Heck of a deal with free shipping.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Rub it in Bent... I opened a dispute(edit: claim) with PayPal on my mia 2cell pack. USPS said it never cleared customs in Chicago. My options are none. Pizzed cause I'm out $19 and I need a 2cell pack for the lid.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Dirt Road, what KD said about it? Funny enough, your tracking doesn't show any data. As I can recall ALL-IN-ONE PACKAGE TRACKING | 17TRACK has showed it some time ago, but not anymore.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

It's showing that it made it to customs in Chicago. I contacted U.S. postal service. They said pkg never cleared customs. It was most likely returned to Kaidomain according to the clerk, she also said KD was the only party to initiate a case. I can do nothing. Kaidomain has given the standard "can you check your post office for pkg?" Response...


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## blkqi (Oct 15, 2015)

My first battery pack from Kaidomain was confiscated by aviation security and sent to be destroyed. Package arrived with a note indicating as such.

Kaidomain promptly sent a replacement which arrived in 8 days. Nothing to complain about.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I shot BanL a private message at BLF. That guy responded quickly! I have an option of closing the dispute on PayPal and get another one sent, or just take the refund. I'm a gambler so I'm closing the dispute and getting one sent.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

I have new tracking on my 2cell. BanL took care of the matter. It's kinda my fault for being so complacent but I was always taught patience... I am happy with KD. Thx over there. Nothing is perfect(especially with int. shipping), thx to ledoman as well! I'll report wen my pack arrives.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Glad to hear that. Hope everything turns out well.

BTW, I've updated product links on the first page.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Kaidomain is in HK, right? Hope this most recent typhoon hasn't upended the supply and delivery chains too badly. Ordered a couple six packs from them yesterday and they've already assigned a tracking number even though the status is still just "being processed."

Thanks again ledoman for making all this happen (I mean the battery packs, not the typhoon!)


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Yeehaaa! My 2cell pack arrived from KD. Also got a free gift! Thumbs up Kaidomain!


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Dirt Road said:


> Yeehaaa! My 2cell pack arrived from KD. Also got a free gift! Thumbs up Kaidomain!


Tomorrow will be 2m17s shorter...


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## lemke (Feb 13, 2015)

Ha! I just received another 4 cell pack I ordered from Kaidomain, and they also included a small LED flashlight and lens cleaning cloth, LOL. My wait time (Dallas, TX) has been about 2 weeks for every order.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

edit: on the charger. This pack looks like a quality item. No nite ride, instead I died today 90/90 humidity. But KD deserves a nod!


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

You other guys in the States, how were your packages from Kaidomain shipped, Hong Kong or China Post?

Because my order of two six packs and two lamps was first assigned a HK tracking number (Not Found) which was later replaced by a CN. Took 25 days to get to me, a couple of weeks between shipping and clearing Customs. Then the other day I ordered a few other little things I'd forgotten last time and just got a notice of shipment, again with a HK tracking number. Wondering what are the chances it will be replaced again with China tracking once it actually makes it to the carrier.

Have to say though that the last shipment from KD was packaged much better than in times past, items were boxed and bubble wrapped and even the packing envelope itself seemed higher quality. No toy surprise inside though, just a lense cloth (which I do really appreciate).


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

andychrist said:


> ....Have to say though that the last shipment from KD was packaged much better than in times past, items were boxed and bubble wrapped and even the packing envelope itself seemed higher quality. No toy surprise inside though, just a lense cloth (which I do really appreciate).


Glad to hear that K/D is being reliable when it comes to shipping of batteries. ( as well as other stuff ).

To people who might be considering buying a battery from K/D...Now is the time to do it. Don't wait till it starts getting dark at 5:00. In the fall everyone is ordering stuff for night so get your stuff "before" they run out. Back orders will likely take weeks longer.


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## blkqi (Oct 15, 2015)

andychrist said:


> You other guys in the States, how were your packages from Kaidomain shipped, Hong Kong or China Post?


For some reason they seem to assign an HK Post shipment number automatically, but HK Post will not ship a battery.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Hi Ledoman,
are there any News on the charger projekt?
Or do we know a reliable, well priced, charger now? 
Thanks


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

AFAIK, the KD tried with 3A charger which wasn't so great. It is usable, but you need to know what are you doing.
Last info I've got few days back the KD is going to try with bit less pricier 2.5A wall plag charger. Unfortunately I don't have any aditional info. Shurely will post it when I get more...


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

blkqi said:


> For some reason they seem to assign an HK Post shipment number automatically, but HK Post will not ship a battery.


Well they did it again, this time on an order that did not include any batteries. Also the second, China Post tracking number KD furnished included a typo so did not work until I figured out what was wrong with it and corrected the error. Interestingly, got an update this morning from USPS that the package cleared Customs, along with an Estimated Delivery Date of next Wednesday. Never saw that before, on First-Class Package International Service Small Packets the PO has always waited until the item arrives at the closest destination facility before issuing the EDD. Maybe USPS is finally getting its act together? Usually my parcels go from somewhat to far astray after getting through Customs so keeping my fingers crossed.

ledoman, am eagerly awaiting news of the 2.5A charger. When ordering my two 6 cell packs from KD, it hadn't occurred to me how much longer they would take to charge than the standard 4-packs, D'oh!


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Yep I'm in the same situation. I placed an order and KD sent me a shipped email with a CN tracking number. I could tell right away it was a typo, but I'm unable to decipher the digit which is a letter, should be a number. Tried all different combos. Gave up and sent customer service a message.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Well with my tracking number the first digit after LT had been replaced with "d" which turned out should have been a "1". But if your tracking number is 14 rather than 13 digits, try just deleting the letter.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Lol, nailed it AC. Did not think of that, and was delivered on Thursday! Thx


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## midnight_rambler (Sep 19, 2015)

Hiya, 
Just a quick one, would there be any advantage/disadvantage of using this battery pack (the KBP-18650B2S2P) over a SS case with 4 NCR18650B inside? I saw today Gearbest are doing 8 NCRs for $28 (8pcs NCR18650B 3.7V 3400mAh 18650 Rechargeable Li-ion Battery-27.79 Online Shopping| GearBest.com), and with the SS cases at $7 a pop, that would be two 4 cell packs for $42, a pretty good deal I reckon...unless theres some disadvantage i cant think of...?
Cheers


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah - those SS cases suck! Much more resistance in the springs, thinner gauge wiring leading to voltage drop (leading to lower current & therefore lower output), reports of cells discharging unevenly, and protection circuitry that doesn't work correctly. See the review thread on that case for reports of its issues and user feedback. The mod to the case for proper protection is not that easy to do either.

-Garry


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## midnight_rambler (Sep 19, 2015)

garrybunk said:


> Yeah - those SS cases suck! Much more resistance in the springs, thinner gauge wiring leading to voltage drop (leading to lower current & therefore lower output), reports of cells discharging unevenly, and protection circuitry that doesn't work correctly. See the review thread on that case for reports of its issues and user feedback. The mod to the case for proper protection is not that easy to do either.
> 
> -Garry


Cheers Garry, thats been helpful. I guess ill give them a miss.
Next quickie, what runtimes are people getting with this pack and the BT40s?


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Too bad those ss cases are crap, there on flash sale $4.99! Gearbest


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

Anyone know what the delivery time is like from Kd? I'm looking to order a 6 cell to run my yingding. Also am curious what kind of chargers you're using? I have an old cheap charger from a $25 Chinese magicshine knockoff kit and I doubt it will fill it in a timely manner. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

I've ordered a lot of items from KD containing various forms of batteries (including the six-cell packs) recently and they generally take about a week or more to actually ship, after which the parcel arrives within two weeks. So roughly three weeks from order to delivery by USPS. Plus, now there is US tracking as soon as the item is processed through China Post. Just beware the first HK tracking number KD issues when they say the item has shipped is false; you'll see it replaced with the real CP number once it is actually in transit.

I got a coupla 2A chargers off eBay and while perhaps not the highest quality, they've both been working fine for almost a year now. Vendor accepted my offer of the two for $15, free shipping. US 8 4V 2A Charger Adapter Adaptor for Lithium ion Battery Li ion LiPo 2S | eBay

Just keep in mind that the 10200mAh set up will take a looong time to charge anyway simply because its capacity is so great. Upside, I never run out of juice running my Yinding on the KD 6-pack.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Tipicaly cheapo chargers like this charge with 1A. Since CC phase last about half of time and you get about 80% capacity at that point I can estimate full charge of 6 cell KD pack (10Ah) would last about 15-16 hours.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Might consider a relatively inexpensive hobby charger which would charge properly, charge at higher rates (& adjustable) and actually cut off charge when it should. I can't recommend which inexpensive ones are actually good though. If you choose this route makes sure you avoid crap clones and junk. 

Ledoman might have suggestions.

-Garry


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

ledoman said:


> Tipicaly cheapo chargers like this charge with 1A. Since CC phase last about half of time and you get about 80% capacity at that point I can estimate full charge of 6 cell KD pack (10Ah) would last about 15-16 hours.


Bought 2 of these last year from Amazon, took 4 days to get here, no tax. They charge my 2/4/6 cell packs overnight (end of ride to morning)

Gugou Replacement 8.4v Rechargeable


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

patski said:


> Bought 2 of these last year from Amazon, took 4 days to get here, no tax. They charge my 2/4/6 cell packs overnight (end of ride to morning)
> 
> Gugou Replacement 8.4v Rechargeable


That looks identical (in the product photo anyway, and we all know how Amazon notoriously shows product photos that aren't what you end up receiving) to the ebay one ledoman linked me to a year ago or so. IIRC it doesn't actually stop charging so you should unplug from the battery pack shortly after turning green. "Shortly" doesn't have to mean immediately; just don't leave it on for days! - next morning should be fine I'd say.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

Where do you see green? Is there an indicator on the charger body? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

kikoraa said:


> Where do you see green? Is there an indicator on the charger body?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, it doesn't show up well in those pics, but there's a red/green LED on the front side of the charger - red when charging, green when it reaches full charge voltage, but like I say still delivers charge to a pack albeit at a slow rate which is why your pretty safe to not unplug immediately but shouldn't leave on long.

-Garry


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

KD sells an inexpensive 2A charger:
http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S024352....DC-8_4V-2A-Power-Adapter-AC-100V-240V-US-Plug


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Didn't ledoman review that one? I suspect it's another "ok" one so long as you unplug it.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Nope, last one was 3A with power cable. The common thing with all chargers I have seen so far (including Magicshine) is they "never" really stops charging. The current limits to zero over long period of time and real limitation is output voltage only. That's why it is mandatory to check if unloaded voltage is within acceptable level. To me this is 8.45V. With good cells this can be bit higher (up to 8.50V) with no security issues with just some small degradation in capacity. 

Most likely the problem is with cheapo 1A chargers where I've already experienced 10V and even 12V regardless they were declared at 8.4V. This is danger if you don't have protection circuit on the battery pack or that PCB fails. So I advise check every charger output.

Take care.....


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hmm . . . I'm tempted to pick one up to try it and see how it acts.

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I'm always trying to get one sample for HKJ (over at BLF) so he can make test with his nice equipment, tear down the charger and inspect internals for safety reasons. You may try to do the same.

KD is working on to get another charger, but the process is very, very slow among many other things they do/sell. This is my second year I'm trying to get good charger for reasonable price for the community. Maybe there should be more people trying to do the same with other sellers. First I've tried with Gearbest, but failed for several reasons. Now I'm trying with KD. Will see......


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

From my understanding is anything you order from Kd or Gb will be pushing close to a month for delivery. Is that correct? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

It depends where you live. For me in EU 3 weeks is an average, for USA it might be less as the cargo planes are more frequent.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Also averages +/- three weeks in USA. All depends on length of time to get through Customs and how far astray the package goes from there on way to final destination. USPS doesn't seem to give same priority to International Airmail as to domestic parcels. Other vendors ship via e-Packet and those items generally arrive in just a week; dunno why KD and GB don't consistently offer that option.


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## midnight_rambler (Sep 19, 2015)

Ordered 2 x 4 cell packs on 26/09, shipped 12/10 - over 2 weeks for packing, that's very poor indeed considering that my last orders from GB arrived in EU in under 3 weeks.


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

So what is a good cheapish charger?? I'm thinking $10 to $15 US??


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Are you after a battery pack charger? These are top quality work with all battery of the battery packs we use. I was quite happy when I got lights for review and these are the chargers included.

2A output and all.

https://www.ituolights.com/collections/parts-accessories/products/ituo-battery-pack-charger

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

Yes I was thanks Tigris.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hmm . . . Nice. Is that ITUO charger verified to do correct CC/CV charging with correct cutoff? Might have to pickup one of those. 

-Garry


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya, this is me . Of course I checked all that. Trust me I would have been all over Ituo if it wasn't up to specs.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Anybody know, is KD's 8-cell pack available with a short cable? I see two listings for it but they both say 580mm (Long). TIA


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

AFAIK not, but you can ask mr. Banl if he can arange one.

With some basic soldering skills it is not to hard to shorten it by yourself.


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks ledoman I'll do that.


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## banl (Jul 10, 2016)

midnight_rambler said:


> Ordered 2 x 4 cell packs on 26/09, shipped 12/10 - over 2 weeks for packing, that's very poor indeed considering that my last orders from GB arrived in EU in under 3 weeks.


Hi friend,

You can PM me your order number or send an email to [email protected] for inquiry.

I think you guys know there is battery restriction in most airline shipping. There is also security checking for exporting package in China. Please don't be worried. We will take the responsible for all the package that is delivered failed or lost. Please don't hesitate to contact us. And i hope you can understand for us.


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## kikoraa (Jul 25, 2011)

I'll be attempting to place an order tomorrow. I'm glad you responded with customer service. I understand it will take sometime considering the hazardous materials that has to be screened to make it over here. As long as shipping tracking info stays updated, I will be patient. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

Yep banl helped resolve my shipping woes on a battery pack. Great to see KD posting up!


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## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Banl, why doesn't Kaidomain ship via E-Packet, is that service not available in your area? I get other electronics including batteries shipped that way very quickly, never any problems and the cost is quite low as well. Thanks!


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## midnight_rambler (Sep 19, 2015)

Hi Banl, i appreciate your posts (and on another thread). I'll contact the sales team. What exactly is the situation regarding shipping batteries? You say "restrictions", what exactly does that mean?


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

My light head and battery arrived from Kaidomain, shipped 29 Sep, arrived here in Cumberland, BC 25 Oct.


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## kikoy (Aug 30, 2007)

Where can we buy good quality chargers for this high quality 8.4v packs? Any recommendations please?


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

kikoy said:


> Where can we buy good quality chargers for this high quality 8.4v packs? Any recommendations please?


I hear this Ituo charger is a good 2A charger: https://www.ituolights.com/collections/parts-accessories/products/ituo-battery-pack-charger

-Garry


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## kikoy (Aug 30, 2007)

Thank you for your reply sir. Ill try to check ituo out.


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## Blue66 (Sep 18, 2016)

After reading for a few months it’s time now for my first post.

First of all I want to thank Ban (banl) from Kaidomain for the great support – two days ago I received my 2 & 4 cell packs :thumbsup:.

I’m located in the southwest of Germany and ordered the two packs in the middle of September as replacements for older battery packs. At this time I was not aware that it is such a problem with battery restrictions of airlines and security checking for export package in China – thought more of getting problems with the customs in Germany.
1st try with via “Swiss Post” was not successful – after 4 weeks the package was returned to Kaidomain, I’m not sure if it has ever left China. 
Thanks to the posts here in this thread I already had contact with Ban at this time. 2nd try via “Netherlands Post“ was quite successful and (tracking number worked after 2 days) the package arrived last Friday without further incidents in only 2 weeks.
Regarding to the great reviews here I decided to get my hands on a Ituo Wiz XP3 – time for retirement for my old Magicshine. Want to use the XP3 (helmet) in combination with the Yinding (bar) – let’s see how it works out.
Normally I use the 4 cells pack with extension cable in my back pack but I want the 2 cell pack on my helmet - have still to figure out the best way of attaching it to my helmet. In colder months I use the dirt helmet because there is less cold air flow to my head – I live at 720 m above sea level and it’s snowing right now.


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## db9 (Sep 19, 2008)

I'm located in Canada, 

Kaidomain gives a number of shipping options.. what would be the best shipping method to select at checkout - Free shipping is Registered Air Mail.. would the batteries more likely to be delayed or better off to go with DHL/FedEx ?

Just wondering..


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## Pinkman (Oct 6, 2013)

garrybunk said:


> Yeah - those SS cases suck! Much more resistance in the springs, thinner gauge wiring leading to voltage drop (leading to lower current & therefore lower output), reports of cells discharging unevenly, and protection circuitry that doesn't work correctly. See the review thread on that case for reports of its issues and user feedback. The mod to the case for proper protection is not that easy to do either.
> 
> -Garry


Oh crap. I have ordered 3 of these cases. Where could I find the test and the modding steps?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Try to read it here: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...tant-4-x-18650-battery-case-bicyc-943638.html


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I used the free shipping option, and it took about 4-5 weeks.



db9 said:


> I'm located in Canada,
> 
> Kaidomain gives a number of shipping options.. what would be the best shipping method to select at checkout - Free shipping is Registered Air Mail.. would the batteries more likely to be delayed or better off to go with DHL/FedEx ?
> 
> Just wondering..


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

I've found KD has very good 100cm 20AWG extension cable. It is cheaper than at DX so now we have another souce for it. I've got one so I can prove it is as described.









http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S024776.5_5mm-x-2_1mm-Male-to-Female-20AWG-Extension-Cable-100cm-Length

I've updated post #2 of this thread as well as "The Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond"


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## Jimmy Kester (Nov 19, 2016)

I'm going to replace my cable with a copper cable like this:


Wasserdichte Steckverbindung 2, 3, 4 Polig Stecker Kupplung wasserdicht 3A Boot | eBay

- waterproof (2m)
- 3 ampere copper cable
- 50cm x 50cm
- cheap 
- *AND* there is a 4 pin adapter available for two bicycle lights and two battery packs = only one cable

Any questions ?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes, what is AWG (cross sections) of each wire in cable? Thinner would have biger voltage drop that's why we want it thicker (ie. 20AWG at least).


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## Jimmy Kester (Nov 19, 2016)

Maximum is 36 volt and 3 ampere.
I'm looking for the AWG size.

Update: AWG 22 and btw. the seller was much to stupid to look on the cable to read AWG 22. Girls...... pfff took me 5min to explain her what "I want and need". LOL


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

22 AWG is tipical used on cheapo lights. When you have longer cable there might be significant voltage drop at currents over 1,5A.

For better understanding see table at this page:
Convert AWG to MM With a Square Wire Gauge - Shenzhen Flourish Electronic Technology Co,Ltd

You can see the difference in resistance between 20 and 22AWG ie. 34,1 vs. 51,7 Ohms/km or about 1/3 more, same is with voltage drop. In another words you will get 1/3 more looses. While this is not so important on low powered lights it has significant impact on efficiency at high power lights. Simply implementation of the Ohm's law.


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## Jimmy Kester (Nov 19, 2016)

Interesting and a nice explanation.
I know there will be "no diffrence" with short cable that we use.

It is more like a hobby to make it "a little bit better".
Battery is always the most important thing if you want quantity and quality...
(voltage drop = less light etc.)

btw. I'm still waiting for the TSM3404CX sot 23 fet which has no PWM.
I guess the strobe mode will not work...I don't care if my SSX2 will be resurrected.
Should arrive in the course of next week...can't wait anymore :cryin:
(I already got 5x r100 resistors laying around)

*VIP!
You can do "SOS" with your hands or just turn the light on and off. *


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Actualy there IS difference running driver less time in regulation phase and signalization of low battery (red status led) would be premature cause it's based on voltage treshold. I agree, very short cable would make almost no difference, but I was pointing to 1m extension cable and same you did.


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## Jimmy Kester (Nov 19, 2016)

The advantage in running time and lumen will be much more precise.^^ 

For freaks only  hehe :rockon:


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## ~Ish (Aug 25, 2009)

I want to carry a back-up battery for my XP2 and XP3. Will the KD single cell work in the link below or is 3.6v too low? Do I need the 7.4V from the 2 cell?

http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S024836....8650GA-Rechargeable-18650-Li-ion-Battery-Pack


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes of course you need at least 2 cells connected in series to get proper voltage. Any combination of 2 cells in series would work (ie. 1x2, 2x2, 3x2, 4x2,....., ~x2 )


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## ~Ish (Aug 25, 2009)

ledoman said:


> Yes of course you need at least 2 cells connected in series to get proper voltage. Any combination of 2 cells in series would work (ie. 1x2, 2x2, 3x2, 4x2,....., ~x2 )


Thanks. yeah, just wondering why they make the one cell "pack" then.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

There are few lights that are powered by 3,7/4,2V packs. For example this one: http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S023823.NEW-KD-2-x-Cree-XM-L2-U2-4-Mode-2000-Lumens-Bike-Light-Black


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

~Ish said:


> I want to carry a back-up battery for my XP2 and XP3. Will the KD single cell work in the link below or is 3.6v too low? Do I need the 7.4V from the 2 cell?
> 
> http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S024836....8650GA-Rechargeable-18650-Li-ion-Battery-Pack


Ledo is correct. A single cell won't work for you. Kaidomain sells a 2-cell pack that is configured 2-series. A two cell pack would make a good choice for back up purposes. Keep in mind that when using a two cell pack that the maximum current output is more limited that standard 4-cell packs. If being used on the XP3 you wouldn't want to run the lamp on it's highest output as it might trigger the battery to shut down. If that happened on a ride you might be left without any light. Some battery packs will re-set by themselves and some you need to connect to a charger to reset. I'm not sure how the protection circuit on the K/D packs work or what the maximum current draw on the 2-cells are so you might want to look into that.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Here is my review of 2 cell pack: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/2s1p-8-4v-3500mah-battery-pack-kaidomain-999743.html
Using NCR18650GA that can stand 10A discharge this pack is comparable to the 4 cell packs regarding power it can provide. You'll just get less runtime and maybe bit lower dicharge curve.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> 8.4v charger with 5.4mm dc connector. Try to avoid cheap Chinese ones unless you have equipment to test the output. Magicshine ones from action-led-lights.com are good. There's a couple on amazon (takes some digging) as well that are shipped via amazon and not 3rd party.


Is the one that comes with the BT40S from Revtronics any good? I have one coming and am not sure if it falls into the junk or good enough category. I also have high end chargers for my RC gear I will use most often, but its nice to have the wall charger when needed.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

AFAIK it is better than any charger you would get with cheapo lights. So good enough category, I would say.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Not trying to spam, but I have some of the gearbest NCR18650b that I won't be using that I can let go to someone in the states that doesn't want to wait forever for shipping. I believe I have 2 of the 6 cell packs and 6 of the 4 cell packs, all bought last year and never used, set to maintenence level on my charger every 6 months or so for longevity in storage. Price would be their cost plus shipping, rounded up to the next dollar or two to buy me a beer

I think kaidomain charges 33.xx for the 2s2p so figure on 40 shipped on that, and 42.xx so 50 shipped for the 6 cell via priority mail


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## capo56 (Mar 24, 2007)

Any tip for the good charger with EU plug please?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

3A Li-Ion 8.4V charger with EU plug:
http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S026646....-for-Li-ion-Battery-Pack-AC-100V-240V-EU-Plug

There are also US and AU plug versions.
http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S026645....-for-Li-ion-Battery-Pack-AC-100V-240V-US-Plug
http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S026932....or-Li-ion-Battery-Pack-(AC-100V-240V-AU-Plug)


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

ledoman said:


> http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S026646....-for-Li-ion-Battery-Pack-AC-100V-240V-EU-Plug


Is this a charger that's been reviewed before? Does it shut-off at 8.40? Does it follow proper Li-Ion charging algorithm? Or is it just ok and best around that's cheap?

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

No, unfortuntely it does not have cut-off as most chargers of this type but has proper output voltage. Mine came with 8.43V unloaded wich is very good. And yes, as far I could test it follows CC/CV curve. For me it is much better than most no name chargers out there. Not perfect, though, but for price safe enough.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Quick ?

I repaired my BT70 and wanted to get a battery that would take the strain of the light on the blast mode. Will one of the better KD batteries work like the 10 amp/hr battery. Or do I just need a larger cell battery like the 26650's. 

Thx


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Can you tell me what current is BT70 is pulling from batteries at highest mode? I would say 6 cell pack should be sufficient, but this is without knowing the power the light is using so it is just guess.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

ledoman said:


> Can you tell me what current is BT70 is pulling from batteries at highest mode? I would say 6 cell pack should be sufficient, but this is without knowing the power the light is using so it is just guess.


Well I'm not quite sure but I sifted through the BT70 thread and someone said measured at the battery 4.8A and at the light head 7A. I know it's a lot b/c I have a few DiNotte batteries and the light head sucks those dry in a few minutes.


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## Tunnelrat81 (Nov 13, 2011)

I apologize for not reading all 466 comments in this thread before asking...but is there a reason why only non-jacketed 4-cell battery packs are available from Kaidomain right now? I see that they have the 4 cell pack listed for ~32 dollars, but the cells are oriented in a row (rather than stacked), and it only has the thin heat shrinked plastic wrap in the photos, not the rubberized case as seen in the OP. 

I'm trying to decide whether to replace some fading Geomangear battery packs with Kaidomain 4-cell packs or with something in a fancier package such as the Gemini hardshell packs for ~2x the price.

In a similar vein. For those of you who have purchased these 4 cell (in-line w/o jacket) battery packs, is it safe to plasti-dipped them for better water protection?

-Jeremy


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Standard brick packs are insanely common so the jackets exist cheaply. Flat packs are a specialty and the jackets are limited to very specific brands.

Yes plasti-dip is perfectly safe to use as long as the pack already has heat shrink around it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## angerdan (Sep 18, 2017)

Tunnelrat81 said:


> I'm trying to decide whether to replace some fading Geomangear battery packs with Kaidomain 4-cell packs or with something in a fancier package such as the Gemini hardshell packs for ~2x the price.
> For those of you who have purchased these 4 cell (in-line w/o jacket) battery packs, is it safe to plasti-dipped them for better water protection?


Solarstorm 4x 18650 or other 2x battery case is the most flexible and individaul option. Also ensures you're able to use high quality cells with BMS. 
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...compatible-battery-pack-isnt-pos-1056303.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...2-cell-helmet-battery-case-review-942264.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/fenix-ba4c-case-found-946922.html


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

angerdan, 
I keep seeing you post links that really aren't helpful - links to items no longer available (the Fenix case), or items that are junk (the SS 4-cell case). The OP is fine with the direction he is heading (just the shipping issue on packs from KD).

-Garry


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## Tunnelrat81 (Nov 13, 2011)

So if I'm understanding the general consensus here, the packs from KD seem to be safely assembled with adequate protection circuit boards, and use authentic panasonic 18650 cells, but shipping can take months and items may simply never arrive? 

Does that pretty much sum it up? So if I'm willing to wait (or take a chance), the packs are as good as the more main stream alternatives, but if I need a truly waterproof battery or am in a rush, the Gemini/Gloworm/etc. packs are the only other safe option.

It really is too bad that nobody seems intereseted in designing a battery case with proper circuitry that accepts replaceable 18650 cells. Demand must be low enough (which seems crazy to me) or perhaps nobody wants to take the chance of blow-back when someone loads their case with poor quality 18650 cells and has problems.

I just hate throwing stuff away when I shouldn't have to, which is why I prefer remote battery lights vs. the integrated ones that leave the whole light worthless when the battery goes belly up.

-Jeremy


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

That pretty much sums it up. You could choose DHL shipping from KD, but then cost goes up quite a bit! The only battery case we know of that is worth using is the C & B Seen 2 cell. Not a bad price, even with shipping from the UK. I don't think it has any protection circuitry in it though (I can't remember). 

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Tunnelrat81 said:


> So if I'm understanding the general consensus here, the packs from KD seem to be safely assembled with adequate protection circuit boards, and use authentic panasonic 18650 cells, but shipping can take months and items may simply never arrive?
> 
> Does that pretty much sum it up? So if I'm willing to wait (or take a chance), the packs are as good as the more main stream alternatives, but if I need a truly waterproof battery or am in a rush, the Gemini/Gloworm/etc. packs are the only other safe option.
> 
> ...


Yep, I think you pretty much nailed it. Still, like Garry said, if you can order through KD and get it shipped DHL I would think that a viable option. I just checked the shipping price on KD to see what DHL shipping cost is on a 4-cell...$18...well, not cheap but if you want a guarantee to actually get your order best to pay the extra money. At least you do get a battery bag with the battery and the plug is likely the standard Magicshine type plug so if you need those things it might be worth the extra money for DHL shipping.

Indeed, would be great if someone would manufacture / sell a decent quality battery pack cell holder. I'm with you 100% on that idea. Ideally the perfect set-up would be a holder that would allow you to not only lock down the cells so they couldn't move but would also allow the user to use the slightly larger 20700 or 21700 type cells. Included with that should be a ( resettable ) high quality protection PCB along with a built-in port that would allow the user to use the type of plug that best works with the lamps that they use. Include the option for a combo set and that could include the holder, three types of connectors using quality gauge wires, a quality 4-bay charger for charging the cells, a cleaning kit for the contacts and a rattle free mounting system. Money to be made for the person willing to design/build and sell something like that.


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## angerdan (Sep 18, 2017)

@Gerry
Jeremy is searching for a battery case like the ones to find in my links. 3(4) of them are still available.



Tunnelrat81 said:


> It really is too bad that nobody seems intereseted in designing a battery case with proper circuitry that accepts replaceable 18650 cells.


The SolarStorm 4/6x18650 case for $10 is stated waterproof, the C&B Seen case has a good quality and the Shark FSV1814 18650 Li-ion Cell Headset Battery Case is already included in my links. 
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...terproof-bicycle-battery-packs-gb-982688.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/fenix-ba4c-case-found-946922-4.html#post13410867


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## Tunnelrat81 (Nov 13, 2011)

angerdan said:


> @Gerry
> Jeremy is searching for a battery case like the ones to find in my links. 3(4) of them are still available.
> 
> The SolarStorm 4/6x18650 case for $10 is stated waterproof, the C&B Seen case has a good quality and the Shark FSV1814 18650 Li-ion Cell Headset Battery Case is already included in my links.
> ...


I do see that now Kaidomain has the 2x2 packs listed in the silicone jacket. I did not see these in listed when I originally posted, so maybe they just restocked. I'm still on the fence though. I don't have the electronics knowledge or equipment that you folks have, so I'm unable to do the initial testing to verify cell quality and PCB function. I'd hate to burn my house down in an attempt to save $40. I also have a co-worker who's in need of a replacement pack for a magicshine knockoff who's battery died after ~6 months of use.

My temptation is to pick up two of these jacketed 2S2P packs from Kaidomain for $85 (shipped DHL) and pass one on to him. Again, my standard is even higher when I won't be the one using the battery. My wife and I are pretty good about unplugging the packs shortly after the old MS charger indicates green, but I can't trust this other guy to do the same, and if I don't have the ability to personally verify the PCB function before recommending it to this guy, it could end poorly.

As far as the link you posted to the DIY stuff. That all seems really interesting and I'd love to take it on, but only if I had the tools and a more knowledgeable instructor standing behind me.  I haven't done much soldering since intro to electronics course back in college, and the repairs I have made recently were simple plug/cable splicing to replace damaged Magicshine / Battery plugs using a (MS included) extension cord.

Thanks for your feedback so far. This whole topic of overpriced battery packs and the affordable alternatives is fascinating. =)

-Jeremy


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

The charger is more the danger than the battery protection circuit. If the charger is charging at too high of voltage and the protection fails then thats when they detonate.

As for branded packs being overpriced, far from it. Here's what the brands also have to pay for:

Research and design which these cheap places copy.

Required testing and certifications to comply with laws in all countries.

Customer service and support

Warranty

Better quality control and better quality components used (proper protection circuits and connector cables)

Importing them into said countries. All fees associated with such which can get expensive.


Now what do places like KD have to do:

Absolutely nothing besides ship it. Factory assembles with whatever low grade connectors, basic mass/cheaply produced protection circuits, almost no quality control

KD has no liability, no warranty, no specific after sale service, NOTHING. 

No requirement to meet regulations in any country.


This is why more and more countries are putting a stop to importing lithium based batteries from out of country retailers.

You call them overpriced but then specifically posted about saving money vs burning your house down. Quality, branded stuff this isnt a problem. If something happens, a recall is issued. None of that happens with cheap stuff out of china. All the fires they have caused and nothing. Because nothing can be done.

Thats the other side to the chinese lottery. Not just quality that the item functions upon receipt, but playing the lottery as to whether or not its going to catch fire and cause property damage. Imagine your homeowners insurance response if they learned some cheap battery out of china caused the fire. They aren't going to be pleased.

Its something most dont understand. They just see "Oh these products from china are so much cheaper" never caring or understanding the facts of the risks. From simply replacing the product after a few uses to house burning down, all of which means being stuck with the loss alone which could have been avoided.

At the same time, those of us with knowledge and understanding can make use of these kinds of products. We can change connectors, repair damage, have proper charger and take precautions.

If saving $40 is worth the extra efforts, taking proper precautions and accept risks (unable to repair) then it works for you. If not then quality, branded packs become the much less expensive option.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Yes, agree with Tig . . . ahem . . . RAKC. To be fair, we've never heard a complaint on these packs, have we? Sure there have been shipping issues, but nobody has reported a problem with the packs that I know of. 

Agree, the charger is probably likely to cause a problem than the pack. 

-Garry


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## Tunnelrat81 (Nov 13, 2011)

RAKC Ind,

I see that you are a retailer (or maybe manufacturer) of bike lights, and likely the batteries to go with them. Bravo for your work in this valuable industry. I appreciate and agree with much of what you've said. However, where I think I struggle is with the basic difference between the needs that we hold as consumers, and the motivations held by the manufacturers. We all want safety, and we appreciate that research and testing needs to go into the design of these packs.

I, however, also realize that this is a somewhat unique industry where there has developed a very clear standard, which involves battery packs using 1 type of cell (18650), in a very similar configuration, with the main difference being the quality of the cells used in order to meet the mAh needs of the many headlights sold. But they are pretty much all compatible, therefore likely very similar or identical in engineered design. If you want us to believe that all reputable battery pack makers have done all of their research and design in a vacuum, without tearing down and replicating parts (maybe all) of their competitor's designs, I'm sorry but I can't believe that. Everyone copies and improves, that's how progress works.

Because of this standard that the industry has arrived at (be it intentional or accidental), there is a unique and obvious opportunity to provide something that would provide exactly what most consumers would want, as well as take a step in the right direction in this "use once and throw away" product market. *This solution would look like what Cat-man-do has described above.* And guess what research and development investment it would take? No more than is needed for a sealed "name brand" case.

The only reason this hasn't been developed by battery manufacturers is that it would reduce sales. It would also change the pricing structure that allows one 4 cell battery pack that's spec'd with Samsung cells (that individually sell direct to consumers for maybe $6 retail) to be priced at $60 dollars, and another pack that's spec'd with Panasonic cells (individually priced at $6.50 retail) to be sold at $90 dollars. The circuitry, hard case, research and development, etc. is the same, and the battery pack is still priced grossly higher. I'm guessing that when priced in bulk, the cell costs differential is even smaller. Of course manufacturers of these batteries don't want to make a universal case. That's $28 dollars of mark-up gained by reaching 6 inches further to the right to pick up the green cells instead of the pink ones.

So herein lies the problem. Bike light companies (businesses in general) know that they can sell a high quality light set one time, and that it will create a repeat customer, maybe 5-10 years down the line. But if the manufacture can then sell a "safe" battery pack with their hard spent research and development at controlled (detached from component costs) prices, of course they will. Batteries are consumable, and consumables mean sustained sales.

The problem, I think, is that it's only inevitable that this product will find it's way out. Maybe it will originate in a Chinese factory, and it will finally offer what's best for the consumer (and limited resources). Wouldn't it be better to be the company to offer such a product, advertise widely and market your safe case at an R&D adjusted price? The very same R&D could be used to develop something sustainable instead of something profit aimed.

There's no surprise people are hesitant to spend their money on something they'll use and then throw away, and it's not simply because they want "cheap" stuff.

If there was a well designed battery case available that was tested as safe, reliable, serviceable and adaptable to various light heads, I would happily spend $40 for it so that I could swap out new 18650 cells, or remove and re-balance occasionally in a separate charger in order to get more life out of them before tossing them in the bin.

If this wasn't a widely held view, a large portion of this sub-forum wouldn't be here. This and all similar threads are evidence that manufacturers are unwilling to provide what consumers want.

So please try to have patience with me and the many other consumers who show interest in lower priced options, because if you are a manufacturer and also a consumer (as all manufacturers are of all things that they don't make), then you understand what I'm talking about, and must acknowledge that you're simply unwilling to provide what's being asked for.

-Jeremy


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Tunnelrat81 said:


> ......It really is too bad that nobody seems intereseted in designing a battery case with proper circuitry that accepts replaceable 18650 cells. Demand must be low enough (which seems crazy to me) or perhaps nobody wants to take the chance of blow-back when someone loads their case with poor quality 18650 cells and has problems.


IMO the replaceable cell battery box idea is not a sound design for MTB use. A 4 cell box has 8 points of contact. Every point of contact is a potential loss of contact in MTB use. Electrically a pressure connection has more resistance than a spot-welded or soldered connection. Minuscule when new but get a little oxidation on those connections and it increases a lot. If one uses the box to hold the cells while recharging, varying resistance at the contacts will result in unequal charging of the cells.


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## Tunnelrat81 (Nov 13, 2011)

Vancbiker said:


> IMO the replaceable cell battery box idea is not a sound design for MTB use. A 4 cell box has 8 points of contact. Every point of contact is a potential loss of contact in MTB use. Electrically a pressure connection has more resistance than a spot-welded or soldered connection. Minuscule when new but get a little oxidation on those connections and it increases a lot. If one uses the box to hold the cells while recharging, varying resistance at the contacts will result in unequal charging of the cells.


That's a good point, but are you suggesting that a product that would address these challenges simply cannot be designed? I understand that this well may be true for a battery cell case being sold for $12 dollars with poorly built components that's rated to IPX-3 standards. My suspicion is that it is possible to build a $40-50 case that is built by a reputable company to a high level of quality control that could actually keep water out and appropriately secure the cells against the jostling of mtn bike use. This case may ultimately cost the same as the sealed equivalents, but it would be user-serviceable and allow for old cells to be removed and re-balanced, or replaced with new ones for a fraction of the initial cost.

-Jeremy


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Tunnelrat81 said:


> RAKC Ind,
> 
> I see that you are a retailer (or maybe manufacturer) of bike lights, and likely the batteries to go with them. Bravo for your work in this valuable industry. I appreciate and agree with much of what you've said. However, where I think I struggle is with the basic difference between the needs that we hold as consumers, and the motivations held by the manufacturers. We all want safety, and we appreciate that research and testing needs to go into the design of these packs.
> 
> ...


Tunnel

First thing to clarify, there is NOTHING wrong with being frugal as long as you understand the risks and trade offs. You know of or have experienced many of the issues already. Ones that most branded packs are warrantied against for a year and repairs afterwards are exceptionally cheap.

I know EXACTLY where you are coming from and the information i type out below will explain my position better

Now onto 3 important things. One is that my company is NOT a manufacturer. If we were products would be a fair bit higher priced.

2nd is that yes I keep it clear I am a vendor here, I remain a constant presence here because before becoming a vender and having this user name, I was Tigris99. Another resident light nerd and enthusiast.

3rd is the point of our "willingness" to sell cheaper. Or lack of. Anyone calling that into question has never worked in any complex manufacturing before. I have. Did for a few years (before then and now I am a certified ASE mechanic).

Its not even possible to bring a battery pack into the states, get it to meet US/EU regulations and sell it for that price. After shipping and import fees etc, figure 50% added cost unless your talking spending $100s of 1000s in just importing battery packs and nothing more.

People dont sell stuff in the US for more just because they can. Its actually because they have NO CHOICE. They are expected to stand behind issues, pay all the costs of getting them from china to here (almost none of the components to make a lithium pack are made in the US. Panasonic is made in Japan, most electronic components are made in Asia somewhere or high end ones are in europe)

Final note:

Check out my website, just to show you something, I dont even have separate battery packs listed because they arent offered yet. I have no desire to sell people battery packs for other purposes, when offered its so those that go on trips and such can have multiple packs. Same as I do when we go camping. I prefer more primitive camping.

Im not here to sell you a battery, just here to make sure people understand that in most cases chinese cheap batteries are a REALLY BAD IDEA. The KD panasonic packs so far have been GREAT except the cheap connector/wire all thanks to Ledoman. With a lot of luck they will stay that way.

I do find it surprising you have mentioned every reason a person should rethink where they buy battery packs because branded packs from any actual brand (not random weird chinese "brands" that dont actually exist) wont catch fire, take years for the wire to break if ever. And most brands will fix for you for nothing more than you time and cost to ship the pack to them to fix. I have done it for people and customers that have packs from other brands.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Tunnelrat81 said:


> That's a good point, but are you suggesting that a product that would address these challenges simply cannot be designed? I understand that this well may be true for a battery cell case being sold for $12 dollars with poorly built components that's rated to IPX-3 standards. My suspicion is that it is possible to build a $40-50 case that is built by a reputable company to a high level of quality control that could actually keep water out and appropriately secure the cells against the jostling of mtn bike use. This case may ultimately cost the same as the sealed equivalents, but it would be user-serviceable and allow for old cells to be removed and re-balanced, or replaced with new ones for a fraction of the initial cost.
> 
> -Jeremy


There is one factor that has to be considered. Opening the case at all allows moisture in. Humidity from the air.

Case in point, flashlights. No matter what eventually you have to clean the contacts or it starts flickering. Even the best of them will suffer this eventually.

The reason why they dont exist, because they are niche item and are a dangerous liability.

Some understand how to deal with Li-Ion cells, most do not. Look at all those ppl Vaping that are blowing their gear up cause they have no clue what they are messing with.

For guys like us here a quality case would be cool, but reality is we are a tiny group overall. Too much liability and pricing restrictions. Sad but true.

Look at what we go through to chase down 2 cell cases.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

RAKC Ind said:


> Im not here to sell you a battery, just here to make sure people understand that in most cases chinese cheap batteries are a REALLY BAD IDEA. The KD panasonic packs so far have been GREAT *except the cheap connector/wire* all thanks to Ledoman. With a lot of luck they will stay that way.


I have to comment this. KD Panasonic battery packs has *20AWG wires* and standard Magicshine connector (how bad it is) so even wireing is better than with most packs out there.

I've put a lot of effort on this because two main reasons:
- people can buy good battery pack instead of cheapo junk
- buying good pack from US for the rest of the worly is to expensive

There is not much places to buy good packs (for reasonable price at least). To bad KD is having issues with sending packs around the globe. If you don't have issues with customs like many of us in the EU have, then buying several packs at once and DHL service might still be good price/performance solution.

My thought not related to any post above:


*It is better to be cheap on the light than to be cheap on the battery!*


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## lemke (Feb 13, 2015)

I have two of Kaidomain's 4 cell battery packs, and they have been flawless. I do incorporate a "mainstream" battery charger (from Action LED Lights), and have never had a charging or discharging issue. My lights and battery packs have been in pouring down rain, mud, and both freezing and 110+ degree temperatures, and keep on shining.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Tunnelrat81 said:


> That's a good point, but are you suggesting that a product that would address these challenges simply cannot be designed?


It could absolutely be designed and built. I just don't believe that it would be profitable for a manufacturer to do it though.

Too many potential customers would not recognize the importance of the differences between a $15 dollar box and a $45 dollar box beyond the price.


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## Tunnelrat81 (Nov 13, 2011)

RAKC Ind,

Actually I think it's perfectly normal for me to mention the things I'm thinking about in the process of decision making. This is a discussion forum after all. I come here for conversation, brainstorming and to learn new stuff. I have no problem getting feedback that clarifies or contradicts with what I've said. 

I'm also not debating the added value of buying quality stuff. I actually tend to spend the extra $ when I have the choice if I know that it's going to make sense in the long run.

Unfortunately I agree that there are many consumers who WOULD choose the $12 dollar cheapo battery case over a $45 dollar well built one. This is sad to me though. I have a feeling that if a quality pack existed that could address the safety and corrosion issues, and it was listed on various websites next to the MS, Gemini, Gloworm etc.. battery packs, that people shopping in that price range would consider it as a more flexible long term option. I could simply be projecting my own feelings though, who knows. Vancbiker's comment above that it wouldn't be profitable for a manufacturer to design is exactly the point that I was trying to make above. It very easily could make more sense for the consumer, but because there's less money in it compared to selling sealed packs, it bounces around in our wishes here instead.

As far as the expense of importing to the US and the cost of quality control etc., that still doesn't justify a $30+ price hike for quality cells when all of the R&D, quality control, assembly etc. are identical. As a business, that kind of tiered pricing makes sense of course, but when as a consumer you know that the only difference between the $50/$90 battery pack is that the cells cost $1/pc more, it just doesn't sit right.

I hope you didn't get the impression that I was calling you out because of your business, and I apologize for not making my comments more clearly general. I figured that you were retail only, so my comments about "your" unwillingness were poorly worded, and for that I'm sorry.

-Jeremy


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

I completely agree on about everything and apologize if you misunderstand my intent. Simply just trying to explain the cost difference isnt as simple as someone may think. Can't say no brands arent being crazy, but especially the smaller brands, that cost gap isnt as large as one might think. Im just trying to avoid people thinking these smaller brands are screwing them. Not the case at all.

Truly this discussion wouldnt exist if Ledoman hadnt pulled off a small miracle with these packs. These are the ONLY ones out there that are actually worth paying money for. 

Overall Its like buying a bike from BikesDirect versus a bike shop. Dollar goes further at bikesdirect for basically the same bike but you better know how to work on everything yourself or that savings is gone and anything warranty related is a pain in the rear if they will do anything at all. Bike shop you get breaks on repair costs, easy warranties and so on. Well in most cases anyway. But you get the idea.


Anyway, please dont take anything I have said as saying your wrong or anything of that nature, not the case at all. Just trying to help others realize that things are often not as simple as they seem.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Tunnelrat81 said:


> ......Unfortunately I agree that there are many consumers who WOULD choose the $12 dollar cheapo battery case over a $45 dollar well built one. This is sad to me though.


We've seen this too many times here. Most readers get fired up about a new cheap light. Loads of posts about them. Posts about where to get the new XYZ light for $.50 less than the previous post. Specs get inflated, exaggerated, and become just total BS. Total roulette on quality, but many don't care. Seen lots of posts where writer says "who cares if only lasts a little while, it's so cheap I'll just buy another.

I've posted this before, but a large percentage of cyclists are cheapskates about some things. Of the 3 types of recreational users I make parts for, cyclists are the ones that routinely ask for discounts. 
Common questions...
Can you do free shipping?
If I order 2 can I get a quantity discount?
How much for a couple?
Can I get a free adapter if I mention your parts in my blog?

I get it, the worst that can happen is that I say no, so why not ask. Some of this is why I just can't see the viability of the quality box idea.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Tunnelrat81 said:


> That's a good point, but are you suggesting that a product that would address these challenges simply cannot be designed? I understand that this well may be true for a battery cell case being sold for $12 dollars with poorly built components that's rated to IPX-3 standards. My suspicion is that it is possible to build a $40-50 case that is built by a reputable company to a high level of quality control that could actually keep water out and appropriately secure the cells against the jostling of mtn bike use. This case may ultimately cost the same as the sealed equivalents, but it would be user-serviceable and allow for old cells to be removed and re-balanced, or replaced with new ones for a fraction of the initial cost.
> 
> -Jeremy


In keeping with the discussing I have to agree with t-rat that a decent quality cell holder can certainly be easily made. Goodness, look at all the money and time wasted on all the goofy cheap bike lights. This never stopped anyone from making/selling a decent quality bike light even though there is a ton of competition that would leave one to believe doing so would be cost-prohibitive.

Yes, a cell holder is something that appears not too many people are interested in...But...perhaps that's only so because no one really makes a good one. Right now good decently priced bike batteries are hard to find. Yet if you own a bike light and need a battery you will end up spending perhaps more than you need to in order to keep using you bike lamp. I'm betting if someone took a survey and asked the people who use bike lights that use external batteries if a good cell holder was available, "Would they buy one"? I'm of the opinion that almost everyone would, once they understood how well it could work and how easy ( and cheap ) it is to buy good quality loose cells.

Yep, make a nice looking waterproof cell holder that would incorporate locking cell clamps to keep the cells from jiggling than add to that quality electrical contacts that incorporate copper contacts to some very strong springs and wired directly to the protection circuit board. Hell, maybe even use a little gold on the contacts to prevent oxidation ( if not to expensive ). Heck, you could even add a USB charger if you thought it might make it more marketable. Of course if you do you need to make sure that the wire/ USB plug is removable and that there is a switch allowing the user to disable the USB power circuit so parasitic discharge ( when in storage ) can be disabled. Done right ( usable with 18650 or 20700 cells ) I'd be willing to pay $50 - $60 for something like that.

I'm of the belief that if something like that existed word would spread really quick. Look at the popularity of the big "beer can" type multi-emitter power torches. Basically those are just 4-cell holders with a lamp head on one end. Some people even use those as bike lights. Not that I would use one that way but I've not heard anyone yet complain that they don't work on a bike ( as long as you have a good mounting solution ).


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

RAKC Ind said:


> Overall Its like buying a bike from BikesDirect versus a bike shop. Dollar goes further at bikesdirect for basically the same bike but you better know how to work on everything yourself or that savings is gone and anything warranty related is a pain in the rear if they will do anything at all. Bike shop you get breaks on repair costs, easy warranties and so on. Well in most cases anyway. But you get the idea.


You picking on me and my bike bought from BikesDirect??? (Just picking on you.) Seriously though, if BikesDirect bikes were not an option I don't know if I'd even have bought a Mountain bike by now (I even bought on the low-end of BikesDirect bike options). Going "discount" and "budget" was my way into the sport. And yes, I took the risk of needing to do my own work (I did a lot of learning along the way and enjoyed it). I've also done quite a few upgrades along the way (as expected when I bought it).

So in conclusion, sometimes these low-end options really are a good option to have and sometimes the only decent option for certain people. (I think you'd agree with this statement; I'm not saying your against having these options.) We should always caveat our "budget" recommendations with the "cons" though. These options aren't for everyone.

Ok, we may be going too far off-topic with this thread now. Sorry.

-Garry


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

garrybunk said:


> You picking on me and my bike bought from BikesDirect??? (Just picking on you.) Seriously though, if BikesDirect bikes were not an option I don't know if I'd even have bought a Mountain bike by now (I even bought on the low-end of BikesDirect bike options). Going "discount" and "budget" was my way into the sport. And yes, I took the risk of needing to do my own work (I did a lot of learning along the way and enjoyed it). I've also done quite a few upgrades along the way (as expected when I bought it).
> 
> So in conclusion, sometimes these low-end options really are a good option to have and sometimes the only decent option for certain people. (I think you'd agree with this statement; I'm not saying your against having these options.) We should always caveat our "budget" recommendations with the "cons" though. These options aren't for everyone.
> 
> ...


Lol. Not bashing bikes direct bikes at all. Just using it as an example of trade offs for budget buying. Hell they have a couple bikes Ive thought about buying. Can get some REALLY nicely built stuff for a lot less than LBS.

Only reason I havent is to support my LBS. Dollar doesnt go as far but its nice catching a break on gear and such as well as if theirs and issue a quick phone call or facebook message and done.

Ok yes now that we have drug this thread way off topic (technically so is the case isnt it as this is the Ledoman's battery pack thread isnt it).

On the subject of the case though. One big problem is what Vanc pointed out. Loosing connections. Corrosion avoidance via gold plated contacts is easy enough, very common. But the big issue on loosing contact is the massive difference in lengths of 18650 batteries. The size is far from standardized. Just among different brands it can vary a few mm.

Then you add in people all having different cells. First protected or unprotected. Large difference in length. Then either of those in flat or button top.

Making it all work is easy enough but would be set for one type of battery length. But using stiff springs that can collapse to also flat would take care of much of the problem except the protected or not length differences.

Truly it would seem like a lot of interest in something like this here but I dont think its really that wide spread. As a USB power bank ya there would be a bigger demand but for ppl like us, I dont think its something that any would see as worth it.

Look at Fenix for example. They did away with their cases because of that exact reason. Not enough interest because no company can cater to using unprotected laptop salvaged cells. Asking for a lawsuit that could put a company out of business. Just look at all the Vapors blowing their stuff up in their face using cheap and salvaged cells.

Thats just my thoughts. Making one wouldnt be all that difficult except the difference in lengths.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Tunnelrat81 (Nov 13, 2011)

RAKC Ind said:


> Truly it would seem like a lot of interest in something like this here but I dont think its really that wide spread. As a USB power bank ya there would be a bigger demand but for ppl like us, I dont think its something that any would see as worth it.


I still maintain that the reason there seems to be no demand for it is that it doesn't exist. There are obvious and recognizable places where consumers will clearly identify a problem and envision the solution, but with bike lights, the lack of an existing alternate product makes it hard for consumers to think that it's a solvable problem. Imagine a random enthusiast/commuter etc. walking into a bike shop with a dead name brand battery pack and asking about his options. If the salesman says, "Oh, that light is compatible with this battery pack, and it'll be $100," the customer has no where else to go. They will shrug and consider that their only other option is to spend that $100 on a lesser light or on a significantly more expensive but similar complete light set. They will begrudgingly buy the $100 pack. But if the salesman was able to say, "you could spend $100 on this battery, or you could spend $40 for this battery case with plug adapters for most lights, another $20 for a separate charger (optional for now), and maybe $30 for the needed cells to load it with, I think many consumers will think about 2 seconds about the decision before realizing that the next time their batteries wear out, they'll only be spending the $30. Yes, there would be pressure from the name brands for the stores to not carry the universal kit, but once people knew about the product, shops would want to carrying them to meet the demand, and the name brands would be stuck selling fewer lights or competing more aggressively on price in order to stay in the game. Their "stick" would be to pull their products out of the store, but they surely wouldn't want to do that either for obvious reasons.

Companies would simply rather sell you a whole new light or proprietary battery instead of offering the ability for you to service and refresh what you have. This is why I mentioned above how unique it is that the same battery/round plug has become such an established standard. If the market wasn't flooded with low budget offerings fighting to get their foot in the door, which many budget shoppers then buy, there very likely wouldn't be such an established battery pack/connector style plug. What has happened now is that newcomers to the industry simply know that they'll get zero market interest if they try to go proprietary with batteries and connector. If the market was held purely by big name, established companies, they'd all very likely have their own needlessly proprietary market protection measures including unique voltages/chargers/connectors. We see it everywhere.

Even Outbound Lighting, which seems to be aiming at the mid to (eventual) high end market, chose to go with the standard (compatible) round connector. As much as we sigh with relief and appreciation for this choice, think of how much that decision will aid them in getting established in the industry.

And surely some kind of design incorporating replaceable shims behind wired, sliding contacts, or a removable carrier with an indent/threaded length adjuster down the middle of the 4 cells and then placed into a water-tight sealed clamshell could be used to accommodate varying cell lengths. And some kind of strap to hold the cells in place during use to avoid the jostling issue.

I maintain that ultimately it's not the design challenges that are holding this up, or even the projected demand for the product...but that more money can be made doing it the existing way, so why cut profits by offering a more flexible product to consumers.

I apologize for continuing the off topic discussion, but I wanted to respond directly to the above posts, and doing so elsewhere would have been less efficient.

-Jeremy


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Corrected links to products at new KD server.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Been doing a decent amount of night riding again this winter and my kaidomain packs (2 cell and 4 cell) have been working fine. Not sure if there are other good options out there for cheap, decent quality packs, but I just ordered one of the 8 cell beasts for seriously extended runtimes.

Edit: running these packs w/ my Magicshine MJ-906, Gloworm X2, and/or homemade triple xp-e (I think, it's been a long time since I built it, have notes somewhere)


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