# Ditching the phone



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I use an android phone and strava to track rides which is fine but I'd rather have something smaller and lighter. It seems something like a vivoactive gps watch would fit the bill, anything else?

Priorities are small, light, cheap. Also simple because I'm technically illiterate.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

I've never used strava, and don't think I want to. I've got a Cateye on one of my bikes that's been acting funny. I do like the Cateye, but I'm open to other options just like J.B.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

tons of threads in here about different devices that may fit your needs. the vivoactive has been discussed by folks before and has some good discussion. also the apple watch, various activity trackers, the more traditional Garmins, newer competitors to Garmin such as Bryton, Magellan, Lezyne, Cateye, etc.

It's all going to depend on more specific details and priorities than either of you have supplied so far.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Harold said:


> It's all going to depend on more specific details and priorities than either of you have supplied so far.


I have checked out several threads here but didn't find exactly what I was looking for. Basically I want something to replace what my phone does now, record the ride and transfer data to strava, only smaller and lighter.

So I guess a minimalist strava compatible gps? Like I said I'm a tech idiot, which is why I'm asking for help.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> I have checked out several threads here but didn't find exactly what I was looking for. Basically I want something to replace what my phone does now, record the ride and transfer data to strava, only smaller and lighter.
> 
> So I guess a minimalist strava compatible gps? Like I said I'm a tech idiot, which is why I'm asking for help.


Since you keep bringing up the Strava thing, we can talk about that some, and expand from there.

Some models do it easier than others. For a smartwatch, you may be able to run a Strava app and upload wirelessly, directly through your phone. But you'll be running into other potential downfalls, which you can read about from folks who have actually used them (in the respective threads).

Garmin has a couple ways, depending on the model you choose. The most basic ones you have to plug into a computer. Once you set up your computer with the Garmin Express program, Express will detect the device and upload the activity to Garmin Connect. You can connect your Garmin Connect and Strava accounts, and your activity will be sent automatically (less than a minute, IME).

On the nicer bluetooth-enabled Garmins, you can use your phone as the intermediate step instead of a computer. I use both methods for my Edge 520, and I like having both methods available. I have an older Garmin running watch (Forerunner 310XT) that allows uploads only wirelessly, and via ANT+ wireless protocol (not bluetooth), and it's flaky. I'll never buy a device again that doesn't permit wired data transfers at least as an option.

Others are not as simple. I have a Bryton Rider 310 that can do wireless uploads, but the transfer stops at Bryton's own upload site. I cannot connect Bryton's upload site to Strava. So to get data to Strava, I have to download the file to my computer (via a wired connection), then use Strava's manual file upload.

The real questions you need to be asking, though, are related to device capability. Do you want sensors like a power meter, HRM, or cadence sensor for fitness tracking? Do you want the most accurate distance measurements possible on twisty trails through a wheel sensor? Do you want tracking only, or do you want to display maps of any kind? Do you want accurate elevation measurements? Do you want temperature data? How many data fields do you want to view at once (and which ones)? Do you want the device to provide you with route guidance of any kind? How do you want it to do so? Would you like it to take a planned route file and give you turn notifications? Do you want it to be able to plot its own routes based on your location and your destination?

Do you want a watch that is on your wrist? Do you want a watch style device that you wrap around some adapter on your bars? Do you want to snap the device into a mount on your stem or elsewhere? Do you want a touchscreen or physical buttons (I have used both and prefer physical buttons)? How long do you want the battery to last? Do you want to be able to charge the device while using it for especially long rides (if so, you may want to ask in the bikepacking forum, also, because those folks do that a lot)? What kind of protection from the elements should the device have? Any at all (most smartwatches, at best, offer water resistance and that's it)? Or do you want the device to be able to survive downpours, possible immersion in a creek, dust, bouncing off rocks in a crash, etc?

Further, you need to be more specific about your "small, light, cheap" criteria. How small? How light? What price do you consider cheap? To give you some expectations, cheap is likely to limit you WRT ease of use. The more expensive devices tend to offer better user interfaces. Some devices let you set options via a smartphone app, bypassing the device's UI. Most do not.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Harold said:


> The real questions you need to be asking, though, are related to device capability. Do you want sensors like a power meter, HRM, or cadence sensor for fitness tracking? Do you want the most accurate distance measurements possible on twisty trails through a wheel sensor? Do you want tracking only, or do you want to display maps of any kind? Do you want accurate elevation measurements? Do you want temperature data? How many data fields do you want to view at once (and which ones)? Do you want the device to provide you with route guidance of any kind? How do you want it to do so? Would you like it to take a planned route file and give you turn notifications? Do you want it to be able to plot its own routes based on your location and your destination?


Nope, none of that^ I keep my phone in my jersey pocket for the duration of the ride and press stop when I get to the trailhead. Honestly I don't know how accurate my phone gps is but it seems consistent and it's good enough for me.

I'll re-prioritize

minimal features 
small
cheap
light

The compatibility issue is a big one for me, as mentioned I'm a knucklehead and appreciate that my phone somehow magically transfers data to my decrepit 10 y/o mac without me having to do anything. So anything as good or better than an old android phone but smaller.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Also I don't necessarily want it on my wrist but those just seemed to be the cheapest ones that fit my criteria, I'm definitely interested in other options.

Appreciate all the info btw!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> Nope, none of that^ I keep my phone in my jersey pocket for the duration of the ride and press stop when I get to the trailhead. Honestly I don't know how accurate my phone gps is but it seems consistent and it's good enough for me.
> 
> I'll re-prioritize
> 
> ...


GPS-only distance measurement is pretty good on its own when the trails or roads you ride are relatively straight. From what I've ridden out west, this tends to fit most trails y'all have out there. Where I live, there's less public land, and also the rolling terrain is more wrinkly on a fine scale. Both factors encourage trails that are VERY twisty (meaning many 180 degree turns up the ravines to maximize trail distance and avoid unsustainable 30%+ grades), and GPS-only distance measurement underestimates by 10% or more. I see it frequently when comparing my activity files with my wife's. I have a wheel sensor on both my bikes. My wife does not. On rides with fewer turns, our GPSes are within .1mi of each other. On rides where we're doing very twisty mtb trails, mine is FAR more accurate, to the extent that hers might be a couple miles short on a long ride.

Your phone, using GPS-only distance calculations, is going to be like my wife's GPS. If you see that some of your Strava buddies on the same ride have recorded a longer ride than you, this is why, and a wheel sensor will correct it. This can be exaggerated by the device's recording interval. Few phone apps let you change this, but most GPS receivers do (but not all). Usually the default setting is to place points more frequently on curves and less frequently on straightaways. This cuts rides on twisty trails even shorter, so a device that lets you set a more frequent recording interval will be better for GPS-only distance calculations. I also find that with Garmins, this setting also tends to supply less accurate recorded GPS data on twisty trails. I pretty much exclusively use 1/sec recording intervals, even with my wheel sensors.

At this point, it sounds to me like you're pretty much looking for the simplest device you can get that will get the data to strava the easiest.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I don't usually recommend this device because it has major shortcomings in the accuracy department on twisty trails (the aforementioned recording interval being the culprit), but it sounds like it would fit most of what you're after.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/into-sports/cycling/edge-25/prod508489.html

You'd need to pair it with your phone to use the wireless uploading feature, but once that's done, your rides will get transferred to Strava about as easily as a standalone device will be able to do it. It can accept additional sensors, but you have to buy them separately if you decide you want them.

The less expensive Edge 20 is mostly the same, but without ANY wireless capability (so no pairing to your phone for data transfers).

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/into-sports/cycling/edge-20/prod508487.html

Which means you'll have to get home and plug the device into your mac to do data transfers. But like the Edge 25, connect your strava account to garmin connect, and your rides will transfer automatically between the two.

There are other small, inexpensive devices from several other companies, but they will require different steps to get to Strava. Typically a few more clicks with your mouse on your computer. I'm not aware of any others that allow you to connect upload accounts to send automatically to strava from whatever proprietary service the device uploads to most easily.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Harold said:


> At this point, it sounds to me like you're pretty much looking for the simplest device you can get that will get the data to strava the easiest.


Pretty much, except *small*, I already have a simple device that's otherwise satisfactory. I usually ride alone these days so I honestly don't know how my data compares to others, I mostly use it to track mileage and elevation and maybe try to bust a few KOM's now and then. Other than the size/weight issue I've been happy with my cheap-o phone thus far but was hoping to "upgrade" to something a little less cumbersome.

So any likely candidates that fit that bill I'd be interested in hearing about.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Harold said:


> I don't usually recommend this device because it has major shortcomings in the accuracy department on twisty trails (the aforementioned recording interval being the culprit), but it sounds like it would fit most of what you're after.
> 
> https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/into-sports/cycling/edge-25/prod508489.html
> 
> ...


Thanks! Going for a ride and will check those out later.


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## comptiger5000 (Jun 11, 2007)

I'm looking at upgrading to one of the newer Sigma ROX computers. It'll do GPS logging, can get data to Strava, etc. But unlike just using a phone, it'll also accept cadence and speed sensors (wheel speed sensor can be more accurate than GPS speed in the trees).


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## winters.benjamin (Feb 3, 2016)

DC Rainmaker (www.dcrainmaker.com) has great, thorough reviews of many different types of bike accessories, including bike computers. He's a roadie - heresy, I know - but most of the devices he's reviewing would work just fine for mountain bikers. I'll bet you can find a simple, small, cheap and light device in there somewhere. An added bonus is he's got discounts linked up with various retailers, so you might be able to get something for cheaper than cheap.

BTW I have no affiliation whatsoever with DC Rainmaker. I just find his site very informative and useful.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Harold said:


> I don't usually recommend this device because it has major shortcomings in the accuracy department on twisty trails (the aforementioned recording interval being the culprit), but it sounds like it would fit most of what you're after.
> 
> https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/into-sports/cycling/edge-25/prod508489.html


Other than price that seems about what I'm after. As far as recording intervals they list it as "smart recording (variable)" What does that mean? For a comparison reference approximately what would the recording interval be on a 4G android phone?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> Other than price that seems about what I'm after. As far as recording intervals they list it as "smart recording (variable)" What does that mean? For a comparison reference approximately what would the recording interval be on a 4G android phone?


Smart recording interval varies according to many factors, but mostly based on changes in speed and direction, but it has limits. As the point is to efficiently place points without being too dense. It is difficult to quantify exactly.

As far as comparing to the phone, it depends on the app. Most apps do something similar, but some allow you to increase or decrease recording interval.

I find that Garmin's smart recording does better when recording in the open, such as with lower tree cover, on straighter trails, and at slower speeds. I do not care for it on the mtb, to be honest. I have seen Garmin's smart recording do a worse job of recording a track than a phone app, but I have seen both do a pretty horrible job. Both are consistently not as good as a Garmin at 1/sec recording (on a device capable of such). Part of it depends on the phone, too. Not all phones have the same gps accuracy, and it is impossible to predict which will be better, as the manufacturers won't publish details on the gps chips, post processing, or gps antennae. Garmin doesn't do that anymore, either, for that matter (they used to).

What kind of price are you after? GPS based bike computers start at about $100, and they tend to hold their value pretty well on the used market.


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## jonder91 (Oct 27, 2016)

The Garmin 200 is $82 on amazon. Seems kinda like what you want. I may pick one up myself. I have a nice GPS on my road bike but I don't have anything on my mountain which I plan on using a little more so I might grab the 200. Connects to Strava, return to start feature in case you get lost and you can download preexisting maps to follow. Not bad for $82. Sorry if anyone already mentioned this one.

https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Edge-...d=1479261068&sr=8-5&keywords=garmin+gps+bikes


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## bigdrunk (Feb 21, 2004)

Worth the extra $$

https://www.evanscycles.com/en-us/garmin-edge-520-EV250237


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

jonder91 said:


> The Garmin 200 is $82 on amazon. Seems kinda like what you want. I may pick one up myself. I have a nice GPS on my road bike but I don't have anything on my mountain which I plan on using a little more so I might grab the 200. Connects to Strava, return to start feature in case you get lost and you can download preexisting maps to follow. Not bad for $82. Sorry if anyone already mentioned this one.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Edge-...d=1479261068&sr=8-5&keywords=garmin+gps+bikes


To be clear, you CANNOT download maps onto the Edge 200. You can load courses onto it, but that is different. IMO, the Edge 25 is actually a better value since it has ANT+ and BTLE wireless.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

jonder91 said:


> The Garmin 200 is $82 on amazon. Seems kinda like what you want.
> https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Edge-...d=1479261068&sr=8-5&keywords=garmin+gps+bikes


Thanks, that does seem about right, especially the sub $100 price.



bigdrunk said:


> Worth the extra $$


For the criteria I mentioned? How so?



Harold said:


> IMO, the Edge 25 is actually a better value since it has ANT+ and BTLE wireless.


I only recently figured out what bluetooth is. ANT? BTLE?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> Thanks, that does seem about right, especially the sub $100 price.
> 
> For the criteria I mentioned? How so?
> 
> I only recently figured out what bluetooth is. ANT? BTLE?


ANT+ is the wireless protocol Garmin uses for sensors. BTLE is the most recent version of bluetooth. 4.0. It CAN be used for sensors, but Garmin doesn't use it that way. Garmin uses it for data transfers and phone connectivity features.


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## jonder91 (Oct 27, 2016)

Thanks for catching that didn't even realize it! I'll take a look at the 25


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

bigdrunk said:


> Worth the extra $$
> 
> https://www.evanscycles.com/en-us/garmin-edge-520-EV250237


Wow...the price dropped even more. I paid 226 shipped in April of this year.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

I see everyone is ignoring Lezyne's new GPS models.

$129 for the Super GPS, an unbeatable value.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

richde said:


> I see everyone is ignoring Lezyne's new GPS models.
> 
> $129 for the Super GPS, an unbeatable value.


That does seem like a winner, I checked out Mr. Rainmaker's review and it seemed about the only thing he had to say bad about it was that it was ugly. I could live with that.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Never paid much attention to the Lezyne GPS units. They actually make some pretty cool stuff.

The Mini could be all you really need and its ~100 bucks. Lol...I might get one just to try out.

https://www.merlincycles.com/lezyne-mini-gps-computer-2017-94798.html


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

RS VR6 said:


> The Mini could be all you really need and its ~100 bucks. Lol...I might get one just to try out.


Probably but the live strava segment feature does have appeal to me. Sounds fun but potentially dangerous.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

richde said:


> I see everyone is ignoring Lezyne's new GPS models.
> 
> $129 for the Super GPS, an unbeatable value.


I mentioned lezyne, but did not throw out a specific recommendation for one because of jb's desire to get data to strava as easily as possible.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Harold said:


> I mentioned lezyne, but did not throw out a specific recommendation for one because of jb's desire to get data to strava as easily as possible.


It says it syncs directly to strava via mobile phone, is that different than the garmin units?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> It says it syncs directly to strava via mobile phone, is that different than the garmin units?


I am unfamiliar with the method they use, which is why I didn't throw out specific recommendations. The users of that brand have not gone into detail about that functionality


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

So if I get a more accurate gps do I decrease my odds of bagging a KOM? Maybe I should be shopping for the least accurate one


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> So if I get a more accurate gps do I decrease my odds of bagging a KOM? Maybe I should be shopping for the least accurate one


It's less clear than that. Sometimes, it might be true. I have seen on trails locally that people with crappy gpses (or phones) bag a KOM on a segment they didn't even ride. I flagged pretty much the full top 10 list of one segment because Strava thought they had ridden an uphill segment (the sub-minute times on a climb with a 20+% grade were the red flags), but their actual GPS data showed that they had ridden a trail downhill nearby. What often goes along with that is that you won't log a time on a segment that you actually rode. So you might therefore also FAIL to bag a KOM that you actually earned.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I have the new lezyne and the upload via cell phone app is pretty solid IMO. The features are great too. My only complaint is that it suffers a bit around tight twisty east coast singletrack. Lezyne has assured me they are brushing up the dynamic sampling rate algorithm, though I would much prefer a static 1 second polling rate, and just deal with the loss of recording and battery time. Pairing a speed sensor remedies this one lezyne's tracker site, but it doesnt always carry over to strava, and strava may revert to gps only distance calculations. Anyway, this is a non-issue on larger trails out west. Otherwise the Super GPS is an outrageous value. You get a ridiculous amount of features for dirty dirt cheap. Ive found myself using the breadcrumb map more often than I ever thought.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Yeah, Strava does throw out wheel sensor data for "untrusted" devices, I forget how they word it.

I noticed the same thing (wheel sensor data being thrown out by Strava) using a Bryton Rider 310 with wheel sensor.

It's a major issue where I live (distance being shorted on GPS-based computer), so reliable wheel sensors are non-negotiable.


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## maverickc_c (Nov 4, 2009)

I have a Cateye Stealth EVO that works for me. It is very basic but has GPS and has to be hooked up to a computer that has the Cateye app to download and connects easily to Strava. I got it it because it was the cheapest gps based device and it shows altitude. Around $65 at the time 2 years ago. I think the newer version EVO+ might work with sensors but don't quote me on that. I still use my phone with Strava in parallel so most of the time i don't download to the Cateye app unless it needs charging via USB. It has a 1 and 5 second sampling rate. Accuracy? A little difference between the phone and cateye but I'm not concerned... Cateye manual is crummy!


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Harold said:


> Yeah, Strava does throw out wheel sensor data for "untrusted" devices, I forget how they word it.


I wasn't under the impression that the device mattered, only that the GPS data errors are below some threshold. If GPS errors are found, strava discards the wheel sensor data, and applies its GPS filters to "correct" or at least normalize the GPS data, then reprocesses distance based on the filtered GPS data only.

Here's the good bits:


> Also during the upload process, the Strava uploader detects any outlier GPS data that may be present in your file - this includes inaccurate GPS points and data that is clearly inconsistent within the file. This bad data detection is an effort to improve the quality of uploaded data on Strava, and does solve many issues with GPS inconsistencies. If, and only if, outlier/bad GPS data is detected, the distance calculation will be reprocessed automatically based on your GPS coordinates (see "GPS-based, Strava post-upload approach" below). This reprocessed distance can differ from the distance data originally reported by the Garmin device, especially if a speed sensor is present (see "How to gather distance data" below).


https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216919487-How-Distance-is-Calculated


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

This thread's been useful to me and I thank everyone. I really like the Garmin 25 Harold mentioned for it's minimalist-ness but the Lezyne super is tempting because of the extra features and lower price. No real hurry for me so I'll keep poking around.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

Harold said:


> I mentioned lezyne, but did not throw out a specific recommendation for one because of jb's desire to get data to strava as easily as possible.


Not literally "everyone," but most people were sticking with what they knew...which is Garmin.

It's just a killer deal if you don't need actual maps, and seems to do everything that most people ask of their GPS devices. It's a little clunky looking, but less so than Garmin devices in the same price range.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

GuitsBoy said:


> I wasn't under the impression that the device mattered, only that the GPS data errors are below some threshold. If GPS errors are found, strava discards the wheel sensor data, and applies its GPS filters to "correct" or at least normalize the GPS data, then reprocesses distance based on the filtered GPS data only.
> 
> Here's the good bits:
> 
> https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216919487-How-Distance-is-Calculated


I think it was a different article that I read in the past that addressed devices from different brands. Not that it really changes much.

My Bryton has a problem with bad data. The positional data in the file is actually quite good. So when you display your ride on a map, it looks totally fine. But there's something wrong with the time data in the file. When I have dug into the files trying to figure out why the wheel sensor data is being thrown out, I've found consecutive points listed with the same time, which should not be the case if the device is recording once per second. It gets really bizarre when I upload the same file onto RideWithGPS. RWGPS will occasionally inflate distances by 2x or more. I can't figure out where that's all coming from, but I assume that it's related to the same bad data, so Strava's system of handling it is certainly better.

It's still worthwhile to understand what's going on and why it happens, though, because this is something that could crop up anytime on any device.

I'll be honest that I haven't seen it with my Garmin Edge 520, or any other Garmin I've used with a wheel sensor, though. I'm also really pleased with the Edge 520, FWIW.


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## urban_comando (Nov 12, 2014)




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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Ordered the Lezyne super gps and already have buyers remorse. For $10 more I could have gotten the micro color gps which has all of the same features but is smaller and lighter (and color!) the only downside is less battery life which probably wouldn't affect me.

Oh well, still pretty jazzed. Thanks all!


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I was worried about the smaller screen being more difficult to read at a quick glance downward, especially with 4 lines of data, and it being hard to read in sun glare. That swayed me towards the Super. I was happy when it arrived and saw it was nearly the same size as my old cateye stealth, which I felt was perfect.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Harold said:


> I think it was a different article that I read in the past that addressed devices from different brands. Not that it really changes much.


For what it's worth, I am pretty positive Strava will use wheel sensor data from the lezyne at least in some instances. I was able export files both with and without speed sensor data, and Strava gave different distances; 7.9 miles with, to 7.4 miles without. The Lezyne displayed a final distance of 7.92 on the unit itself.

The more vexing issue is why strava will randomly discard the speed sensor data, and default to GPS calculated distance on some rides. But I dont think this is a brand/device specific issue either.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Ha, more buyers remorse! I know it's dumb but one of the features I was really sold on was live strava segments, which I just now found out requires strava premium to use. Oh well, probably would have killed or maimed me anyway.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Thanks for this thread. JB will you recommend it then? I pretty much have the same use as you do - just to keep track of my miles and see how I do, nothing major. It would be awesome to ditch the phone. I'm thinking of ditching my pack for shorter rides as well. 

I couldn't find the color one


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

jcd46 said:


> I couldn't find the color one


This one- https://www.rei.com/product/113880/...w9XqtInLOhT1LpmwhsutGslCW5GhflwTLMaAkXJ8P8HAQ

It seems to have all the features that the super gps does (which is a lot) but much more compact and only 29g's! Color is supposed to make the smaller size easier to read but cuts the battery life to 14 hours max. I like it enough that I'm toying with the idea of sending mine back for an exchange, probably not though.

The previously mentioned Garmin edge 20 & 25 look nice too but to me it seems the Lezyne is a lot better equipped for about the same price. If you don't care about the ant+ connectivity or strava bs the little Edge 20 might be worth looking at.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

J.B. Weld said:


> This one
> 
> Thanks for link JB! Ok I think I'm going w/Lezyne Mini - seems the best at the price. ($99.00 @ Jensons)
> 
> Won't order right away but I've found something I want to spend part of my Christmas bonus on :thumbsup:


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

jcd46 said:


> J.B. Weld said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for link JB! Ok I think I'm going w/Lezyne Mini - seems the best at the price. ($99.00 @ Jensons)
> ...


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

J.B. Weld said:


> jcd46 said:
> 
> 
> > Forgot about that one, seems better than the Garmin 20 and cheaper. I think Lezyne kicked @ss on their new stuff and it shows because just about everyone is out of stock, I snagged the last super gps Jensons had!
> ...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

jcd46 said:


> J.B. Weld said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah only 2 left on the mini! uggh! decisions... food/gps? LOL j/k!
> ...


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

J.B. Weld said:


> jcd46 said:
> 
> 
> > 15% promo code (where are the best deals) wouldn't work for me on the gps but I called and they gave it to me anyway, just to tempt you further.
> ...


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

J.B. Weld said:


> jcd46 said:
> 
> 
> > 15% promo code (where are the best deals) wouldn't work for me on the gps but I called and they gave it to me anyway, just to tempt you further.
> ...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Just got mine moments ago. I thought hard about sending it back for the micro color but said screw that and broke the seal. It is robust, built like a tank. Mount looks equally tough. Super intuitive to set up, I did it without any reading or help from my son.

That's my initial review.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

J.B. Weld said:


> Just got mine moments ago. I thought hard about sending it back for the micro color but said screw that and broke the seal. It is robust, built like a tank. Mount looks equally tough. Super intuitive to set up, I did it without any reading or help from my son.
> 
> That's my initial review.


Nice! Easy to set up with Strava? Im guessing mine should arrive tomorrow or Thursday.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

jcd46 said:


> Nice! Easy to set up with Strava?


Much to my dismay I discovered that my "ancient" 4 y/o phone is apparently too decrepit to run the Lezyne app, now I understand why people upgrade every year. Tech is awesome.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Really? Thats surprising. Its android? What version of android do you have? My 3 year old galaxy s5 runs the lezyne app just fine.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

LG 4g lte, 4.0.4 apparently no updates available.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Yeah, seems like it's only available for android 5.0 and up. I'm sorry, I guess I kind of assume that most people have newer phones. Anyway, in the mean time, I think you can probably pull the files off it from your computer through USB, and then upload them to strava manually. I also notice it says its compatible with my amazon fire tablet, and the specs say it supports BTLE, so perhaps thats another inexpensive ($49) option to get you by, at least until you upgrade your phone.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Ok mine is not 4yrs old but not sure on the version..gota look it up mine should arrive this morning.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

The mini is very mini!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

It's real easy to sync to strava even without the phone, I did need my kids help but only a little. Battery life is crazy, I left it on and drove around all day with the back light on half the time and it was still @ 77%.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I got it all set up last night and just installed it, very happy w/it. The only thing is mine came attached to the mount and it is solid in there! can't seem to be able to remove it from the mount, and I hate to break it! 

Strava was super easy. Question if I do the "live" segments do I need to have my phone too? since is blue tooth paired? (that's probably a really dumb question)  

The whole point is NOT having to bring my phone, in any event I don't care about that I can always check the segments after. All in all, I'm stoked.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

jcd46 said:


> I got it all set up last night and just installed it, very happy w/it. The only thing is mine came attached to the mount and it is solid in there! can't seem to be able to remove it from the mount, and I hate to break it!


I had the same problem until I noticed the directions said *push down* and then turn, after that it was real easy. The mounting bracket seems super solid.

I'm Pretty sure you don't need the phone for segments, you just need to star the ones you want.

So, auto-pause on or off? I would think on makes sense but I've heard that off is better?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Strava is offering me another free month of premium so I'll get to at least try the segment dealio out.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Oh I need to find that feature, I prefer it "on" but that's because I'm old and forgetful and I don't want to have to think about turning it back from pause. 

Ok I'll give it another shot, I read the directions as well and saw the video, paused to see how he put it on the mount, I'm sure I'm doing something wrong. Thanks!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

jcd46 said:


> Oh I need to find that feature, I prefer it "on" but that's because I'm old and forgetful and I don't want to have to think about turning it back from pause.


Same here. Mine was set to OFF by default, you can change it by going to Menu>Auto. I think I heard it mentioned (Harold?) that even if you don't pause the unit when you stop the software you import it to will figure it out and do it for you, don't know why that would be better though.

The mount bracket was a lot stiffer than I expected and I had to push down pretty hard before it would turn.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

J.B. Weld said:


> Same here. Mine was set to OFF by default, you can change it by going to Menu>Auto. I think I heard it mentioned (Harold?) that even if you don't pause the unit when you stop the software you import it to will figure it out and do it for you, don't know why that would be better though.
> 
> The mount bracket was a lot stiffer than I expected and I had to push down pretty hard before it would turn.


Thanks JB - found it and fixed it. I'll mess with detaching it later.  I agree though solid product when I opened the box I was like man, I won't see anything on this thing, but I did it w/2 line display and its perfect.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

So my son took the lezyne out for a "test drive" and recorded an 11 mile ride and 780 ft. elevation gain. When he synced it to strava it said 79 ft. elevation gain. There was a red highlighted text saying to click for gps elevation correction and when he did it corrected it to 811 ft.

Does anyone know what that's about?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> So my son took the lezyne out for a "test drive" and recorded an 11 mile ride and 780 ft. elevation gain. When he synced it to strava it said 79 ft. elevation gain. There was a red highlighted text saying to click for gps elevation correction and when he did it corrected it to 811 ft.
> 
> Does anyone know what that's about?


Auto pause sucks. Nobody can do it right. Just record the ride and let Strava or whatever service you like figure out your stopped time after the fact. Auto pause on the device likes to pause you on slow climbs and hike-a-bike stuff. Irritating.

As for the elevation correction, I'd be curious to see the Strava activity. Strava does a lot behind the scenes:

https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216919447-Elevation-for-Your-Activity

So basically, either Strava doesn't have the Lezyne in its database yet or the data lacked a DeviceID (especially if the data was relayed via a 3rd party). I mentioned this in another thread, and couldn't remember where I had read it. The discussion I think was about wheel sensors and my Bryton, but I see now that it was related to elevation.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> So my son took the lezyne out for a "test drive" and recorded an 11 mile ride and 780 ft. elevation gain. When he synced it to strava it said 79 ft. elevation gain. There was a red highlighted text saying to click for gps elevation correction and when he did it corrected it to 811 ft.
> 
> Does anyone know what that's about?


I've had that problem a couple times with my Super, I suppose I should write something somewhere so Lezyne can see it. The altitude correction always works, although that button is NOT a toy....went riding with a friend and I ended up ~100' short, hit the button to see what would happen, and then I lost another 200'.

It started happening when it got cold, the first time the GPS was warm in the car with me, and the next time it was on the bike for the whole ride to the starting point. Who knows.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Ive had the altitude correction as well, and while it happens to my Super GPS quite frequently, its not limited to the Lezyne only. Ive seen it pop up recently with my CatEye stealth as well. I have however forwarded on the feedback to Lezyne. GPS is notoriously bad for determining altitude, which is why the added the barometer to the device. Strava has a bunch of filters the GPS data goes through, and my guess is that something goes wonky when Strava sees data from both GPS and the barometer readings. Check lezyne's GPS Root website, which is where the files get uploaded to when you choose "upload to cloud". Youll see that the altitude/elevation readings are good. To me, this means the device is working, but something gets lost in Strava's translation. Ill bet clicking the "correct altitude" link simply reverts to GPS only altitude.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

richde said:


> I've had that problem a couple times with my Super, I suppose I should write something somewhere so Lezyne can see it. The altitude correction always works, although that button is NOT a toy....went riding with a friend and I ended up ~100' short, hit the button to see what would happen, and then I lost another 200'.
> 
> It started happening when it got cold, the first time the GPS was warm in the car with me, and the next time it was on the bike for the whole ride to the starting point. Who knows.





GuitsBoy said:


> Ive had the altitude correction as well, and while it happens to my Super GPS quite frequently, its not limited to the Lezyne only. Ive seen it pop up recently with my CatEye stealth as well. I have however forwarded on the feedback to Lezyne. GPS is notoriously bad for determining altitude, which is why the added the barometer to the device. Strava has a bunch of filters the GPS data goes through, and my guess is that something goes wonky when Strava sees data from both GPS and the barometer readings. Check lezyne's GPS Root website, which is where the files get uploaded to when you choose "upload to cloud". Youll see that the altitude/elevation readings are good. To me, this means the device is working, but something gets lost in Strava's translation. Ill bet clicking the "correct altitude" link simply reverts to GPS only altitude.


Read the link I posted. Seriously. Read it. It answers all of your questions and suppositions. Strava is purposely ignoring the elevation data, and there are reasons for it. The article also describes where it gets the elevations when running "corrections" and answers, to some degree, why those numbers are oftentimes short of what you actually did. But don't just assume that the altimeter on your GPS is 100% truth, either, because there are errors involved with measuring elevation indirectly via barometric pressure, too.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Harold said:


> Read the link I posted. Seriously. Read it. It answers all of your questions and suppositions. Strava is purposely ignoring the elevation data, and there are reasons for it. The article also describes where it gets the elevations when running "corrections" and answers, to some degree, why those numbers are oftentimes short of what you actually did. But don't just assume that the altimeter on your GPS is 100% truth, either, because there are errors involved with measuring elevation indirectly via barometric pressure, too.


OK, so Strava is purposely ignoring *GPS based* elevation data, but not the barometric. The correction reverts to elevations based on an "elevation database", as opposed to GPS based elevation data.

I wonder if the barometric data is subject to the 10 meter threshold, or if its simply cumulative in the file, much the same way speed sensor distance is cumulative in the file? The article didn't say one way or another, but that would explain why some elevation gain seems to be substantially more when using barometric data, assuming its not subject to the threshold/hysteresis.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

GuitsBoy said:


> OK, so Strava is purposely ignoring *GPS based* elevation data, but not the barometric. The correction reverts to elevations based on an "elevation database", as opposed to GPS based elevation data.
> 
> I wonder if the barometric data is subject to the 10 meter threshold, or if its simply cumulative in the file, much the same way speed sensor distance is cumulative in the file? The article didn't say one way or another, but that would explain why some elevation gain seems to be substantially more when using barometric data, assuming its not subject to the threshold/hysteresis.


No. From the article:



> *My device has a barometric altimeter, why is Strava recalculating the elevation?*
> 
> If you recorded your activity with a GPS device that has a barometric altimeter, but Strava isn't using that data, it's possible that device is not yet in our database or that the file you uploaded is missing a Device ID. We occasionally see this when activities get synced through 3rd parties so if you know the device is in our database, please try uploading the original file from the device. If you still have questions, please submit a support ticket and include a link to the Strava activity.


And as far as the second question you have, that depends on your device and its settings. It will record an elevation point every time it records a GPS point. So if you are sampling 1/sec, then you will get an elevation measurement once per second. If your computer is recording locations less frequently, then elevation measurements will be recorded less frequently. Yes, the barometric altimeter is capable of being more granular and capturing smaller changes in elevation than the database used for corrections. In some places, there is elevation data that's at an even higher resolution than Strava uses for corrections. My state has a 1m elevation dataset available. I used it on a trail map that I produced to show hillshade. The problem with using data that fine-grained for elevation corrections with GPS data is with the method used for those corrections. Strava is essentially assigning each recorded data point the same elevation as the database for that specific location, so errors and inaccuracies in the GPS data are transferred to the elevation data, also. The barometric altimeter is independent of those particular errors. So what happens is that when processed for corrections, it will say you descended and climbed more than actual if you rode across a bridge, or through a tunnel. If your GPS data is a bit off on a steep hillside, it's likely to inflate your elevation numbers. By using elevation corrections with coarser data, it is likely to UNDERestimate your elevation, but the opportunities for gross inflation are reduced (it still won't address the bridge problem).


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Personally I don't have any problems with a 5 or 10% correction one way or the other but I was sort of taken aback when it was reduced from ~800 to ~100 ft. when imported to strava (via Lezyne's sync). Probably an anomaly but I'll keep an eye on it.

@ Harold- thanks for all the good info!


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

Harold said:


> Read the link I posted. Seriously. Read it. It answers all of your questions and suppositions. Strava is purposely ignoring the elevation data, and there are reasons for it. The article also describes where it gets the elevations when running "corrections" and answers, to some degree, why those numbers are oftentimes short of what you actually did. But don't just assume that the altimeter on your GPS is 100% truth, either, because there are errors involved with measuring elevation indirectly via barometric pressure, too.


Actually, in one of the two times it happened, the obviously incorrect information was displayed on the unit. In time, the data on GPS Root changed to a closer to correct number, and the result of using the altitude correction on Strava was very close to that number.


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