# Moto / bikes direct fatbikes!



## Mk3Rider (Dec 7, 2008)

Link as follows:

Save Up To 60% Off Fat Bikes and Fat Mountain Bicycles from bikesdirect.com

Discuss!


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## MauricioB (Oct 16, 2007)

W00t?!


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

Thank you Matt!


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Holy crap. It's an epidemic.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

Well the claim that they will float over 3' of powder snow might be stretching it a bit.


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

Love bd!


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Ahhhh.... WOW.... there's your best fat bike for the $$$


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

What's up with the front rim? Is it really that wide or some sort of optical illusion???


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Heads are going to explode.


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## Andy FitzGibbon (Jul 7, 2007)

dvn said:


> What's up with the front rim? Is it really that wide or some sort of optical illusion???


Looks like the old Choppers US hundies.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

what's the catch? the unpublishable weights?
Why the wholesale dump?
hmmmn.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

dvn said:


> What's up with the front rim? Is it really that wide or some sort of optical illusion???


If you look at the specs, they show two different widths on the rims. The front rim is probably 4 1/4 inches and the rear is 3"... Then it's probably cheaper to drill two rows of round holes than to CNC a big oblong hole like a Clownshoe.


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## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

MiniTrail said:


> two rows of rim holes has to be better
> surprised no one else mentioned that
> 
> me thinks it's just the picture


IDK. They do list the rims as: ALLOY RIM, 26"x3.0-4 1/4" Could be rear = 3.0" and front = 4 1/4" width :eekster:


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

rideit said:


> what's the catch? the unpublishable weights?
> Why the wholesale dump?
> hmmmn.


Its not anything funny going on... its bikes direct... they sell all their bikes at just over cost.

And if you want to get on a fatbike, who cares about the weight at that cost. I'm guessing under 40, maybe 38... still a million times better than the walgoose. Hydro brakes... good name brand tires.


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## damnitman (Jan 30, 2008)

...yeah, I just sent the link to my brother in-law...he's "fat curious" but won't commit a ton of cash...


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## roobydoo (Feb 29, 2012)

rideit said:


> what's the catch? the unpublishable weights?
> Why the wholesale dump?
> hmmmn.


It's called marketing, they're selling it at exactly the price they intend to sell it at. 
We have a stores here that will import product just for the weeks the ad runs in the paper, then claim it's on sale... it's sorta like that

Otherwise, I would say my (kids/wifes) next fatbike would likely be On-One or BD at this point, but not for me. 
Of my bikes I bought new 3/4 were LBS bikes and the 4th I built myself. I would only replace my Fatbike frame, not the whole bike.


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

BD puts out some excellent bikes at lower price points than what the LBS can deliver


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

As someone who was strongly considering a Mukluk 3 as my best choice on the lower end of the price-range... I'm now even more strongly considering this Motobecane thingamajig. It might not look as sharp, but it seems decent, and is _half_ the price.


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## jvm051 (Mar 10, 2009)

Had I not just purchased an One One Fatty, I would have been all over this. Could have got a Pro and a Comp for the price of what mine cost after building. Hell, pick up the Pro, and purchase the Carver suspension fork, for under 2 bills. Good job Bikes Direct. 

Looking at the specs, are they using 135mm hubs?


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

The wally-worlders will be all over those.

Its awesome you guys have somewhere like BD to fill the gaps in :thumbsup:


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## Tunalic (Feb 13, 2012)

I emailed BD a few days before I ordered my Fatty asking when and if they planned on some fat bikes....they emailed me back after I had put my order in and said to keep checking the website, the plan was to have em before the end of the year. 

I kinda glad I went ahead and got my Fatty....love it!


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

I think I might give one a try. Don't know what model to go for though. I am thinking the cheapest one, I have an x9 rd and shifter I can put on it. Is the break upgrade worth $200?


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

yellowzx said:


> I think I might give one a try. Don't know what model to go for though. I am thinking the cheapest one, I have an x9 rd and shifter I can put on it. Is the break upgrade worth $200?


If the pictures are correct, there also seems to be a difference in rims.


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## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

SAMOX cranks FTW!

Seems like a bunch of pretty low-spec parts, so you do get what you pay for, but at the same time this is a much better route than the Wal-Goose option. I do like the idea of the competition- we have enough $1500-2000 hardtail fat bikes out there and they are virtually all the same. With prices like this, the bigger companies might go after building full-suspension fat and 29+ compatible frames and forks.


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## bhc (Sep 27, 2005)

jvm051 said:


> Had I not just purchased an One One Fatty, I would have been all over this. Could have got a Pro and a Comp for the price of what mine cost after building. Hell, pick up the Pro, and purchase the Carver suspension fork, for under 2 bills. Good job Bikes Direct.
> 
> Looking at the specs, are they using 135mm hubs?


Looking at the specs it might be 135 front, 145 rear. Did you see the two numbers listed?


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

Good for them and good for the fat bike world. Without question a great value. They seem to have hit this out of the park! Unfortunately, with 19 inch as the largest frame size, this is not a reasonable option fir me.,,,need 21 or 22. 
Thats okay though, I may get the 15 for my son,,,,much cheaper than the on one baby fat.


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

So I am 6'1 the sizing chart recommends the large but I would have more stand over with the medium. Would I be cramped on the medium or would it work. I have no fat bike experience


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

yellowzx said:


> So I am 6'1 the sizing chart recommends the large but I would have more stand over with the medium. Would I be cramped on the medium or would it work. I have no fat bike experience


This is completely a guess without seeing you on the bike, but I think at 6'1 you would be way to bigbfor a medium. In fact, I think anyone taller than 6'2 would have issues in the larger 19 size....too much post sticking out, cocpit too short without big adjustments.


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## Stuey (Aug 6, 2009)

Can anybody recommend a USA - UK buy and ship company ?


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

Nvm!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

deuxdiesel said:


> , but at the same time this is a much better route than the Wal-Goose option.


+1 - The Wallbeast was only a BSO [Bike Shaped Object] while this actually looks like a bike.

I would hold off until some of these are in the wild and being ridden before I pulled the trigger though. Let someone else beta test the bike for you and get some real world reviews.

The Wallbeast was hotter than hell for a few months until the new toy vibe was gone and folks actually had to get on with the riding part of the equation.

The BD fatty might be just great, but it also might be pretty lame.

Time will tell.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Vikb - "The Wallbeast was only a BSO [Bike Shaped Object]"

Good one vikb! Almost pissed myself.


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## buckfiddious (Nov 14, 2011)

Difference in rims aside, is it just me or have they made a symmetrical frame with a 145 hub? because that's kind of awesome if they did.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

buckfiddious said:


> Difference in rims aside, is it just me or have they made a symmetrical frame with a 145 hub? because that's kind of awesome if they did.


If they really did go 145 symmetrical, that would explain the 3" rear rim. I don't think it will be possible to use a full range of gears with an 80 mm rim which is sort of too bad.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

If this is the only Fat Bike you will ever own then it might make sense.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Could someone please talk me into or out of this bike? 
I'd like to know if you all think geometry is trail worthy for rocky bumpy san Diego. 
Also, any more insight into wheels, max tire width, etc would be very appreciated.
It's. SO HARD not to pull the trigger...

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2


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## damnitman (Jan 30, 2008)




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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

I really think I might pull the trigger, in a couple weeks if the pre-orders are still available. The only thing really holding me back is that I'm good buddies with the owner of my local shop, and have been talking about buying a Mukluk from him. I don't want him to hate me when he sees me with this thing.

So,it says the rear hub is "9/10 speed disc" with a "Shimano cassette body". I don't know much about switching out cassettes. Would one be able to simply replace the cassette (and chain, crankset, etc) with a 10 speed cassette, or would you need to replace the body too? In other words, with a "9/10speed hub", is the "cassette body" able to accept either a 9 or 10 speed cassette?


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

No experience with these bikes, but couple weeks ago I had my 9zero7 in San Diego and Kernville, it was awesome!! The fat tires were perfect for all the loose stuff.



tfinator said:


> Could someone please talk me into or out of this bike?
> I'd like to know if you all think geometry is trail worthy for rocky bumpy san Diego.
> Also, any more insight into wheels, max tire width, etc would be very appreciated.
> It's. SO HARD not to pull the trigger...
> ...


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

just buy it,, if you really enjoy the fatbike world (which you will), you will likely end up moving up scale in a year or two.... if you don't enjoy the fat experience (what's wrong with you!) you can likely unload it for 2/3 the cost....

just do it. (and then let us know how you like it)


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

Thanks for the tip! I ordered the 19" comp (cheap one). I've been lurking on the Fat forums for awhile. I can always sell it locally if I don't like it. I plan on buying a new carbon 29er in the spring, so I can't afford two bikes over the next 6 months. For $695.00 shipped (no tax)-why the hell not?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Shark said:


> No experience with these bikes, but couple weeks ago I had my 9zero7 in San Diego and Kernville, it was awesome!! The fat tires were perfect for all the loose stuff.


Yeah! I think I looked at your thread about that trip. Looked really fun. I have been coveting a fat bike for many years now. I need too decide what size to get. I am 5'7, and I ride a 50cm in road and cross and a 17" ibis tranny.
I am thinking the small as sticking a long stem on (if I need to) would just slow the handling down, which might be nice for a rigid bike?
Any advice here is appreciated.
Thanks!

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

roobydoo said:


> It's called marketing, they're selling it at exactly the price they intend to sell it at.
> We have a stores here that will import product just for the weeks the ad runs in the paper, then claim it's on sale... it's sorta like that
> 
> Otherwise, I would say my (kids/wifes) next fatbike would likely be On-One or BD at this point, but not for me.
> Of my bikes I bought new 3/4 were LBS bikes and the 4th I built myself. I would only replace my Fatbike frame, not the whole bike.


Well after over 30 years in the bike biz, I can tell you this. These bikes will be full of hidden compromises, from weld and metal qualities, alignments, substandard bearings, poorly prepped and faced cut surfaces, marginal hubs/moving parts, really inferior rubber and other wear items, poorly built wheels, and other such things. 
I think they have their place, though, but I do say 'Caveat Emptor'. 
I don't sell fat bikes, so this is just observations from decades of watching direct to consumer offerings almost NEVER quite match up. 
I have no vested interest one way or the other. 
I wish the project luck, though.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

rideit said:


> Well after over 30 years in the bike biz, I can tell you this. These bikes will be full of hidden compromises, from weld and metal qualities, alignments, substandard bearings, poorly prepped and faced cut surfaces, marginal hubs/moving parts, really inferior rubber and other wear items, poorly built wheels, and other such things.
> I think they have their place, though, but I do say 'Caveat Emptor'.
> I don't sell fat bikes, so this is just observations from decades of watching direct to consumer offerings almost NEVER quite match up.
> I have no vested interest one way or the other.
> I wish the project luck, though.


Meanwhile, thousands of happy people are riding around on bikes they bought from BD.


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## wrightwoodfilms (Oct 22, 2012)

I say this is good for rocky san diego and if its to ruff you could go with a 11nine shock or the carver which I am going to add for dirt riding!


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## wrightwoodfilms (Oct 22, 2012)

Since I cant seem to get the local shops on board with the fattys I have been pushing these to the not sure about spending the money on a Fatty.. I at least want my friends getting the bug.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

fightnut said:


> Meanwhile, thousands of happy people are riding around on bikes they bought from BD.


Hence wishing the project good fortune.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

fightnut said:


> Meanwhile, thousands of happy people are riding around on bikes they bought from BD.


True. He is right though, also. There are a lot of cut corners and you definitely need to do a lot of tightening. If this gets the job done though... otherwise it might be awhile before I get one. Might be worth it have just for a year or two.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

MiniTrail said:


> Life span of a fat bike is pretty long. We had a post today in the daily pic thread with a sweet Wildfire Fatbike. A little more $ up front can save a ton down the road


I'm not sure what your opinion is. Could you expand?

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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

Yup. 
I am not really trying to dissuade or promote, just providing some insight from my POV. 
These bikes will make some people quite happy, but naturally frustrate more than a few. 
Looks like a good 'starter' bike, to see if all the rest that goes along with fat biking is, indeed, your cup of tea. 
Most of us on these forums are used to fairly high bike quality standards, these won't be in the same league, from what I see. 
That is all.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

That all makes sense. To be fair, you do know how I'll be riding it, that's a few posts up. 

I would absolutely love a carbon bear grease, but my spend limit is not that high, or at least, it'll be 18 months to 2 years before I could even think about it. The on one is much closer, but I don't see an enormous difference in components. If this was durable enough to get a couple good years out of, then for my uses it would be a go. 

But I don't know much about geometry and I'm not super educated in wheels, so that's why I ask. I might have to just do some more research on the unknown parts and see what I find. 

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2


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## Innota (Feb 22, 2012)

Here's another fun fact: The Bikesdirect bikes are actually a copy of these: Diamant / Nakamura ? Mammut / BigBob Prototype(s) ? Norwegian Fatness! | FAT-BIKE.COM
These were again the same bikes which were used as a prototype by Norco for their fatbike.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Thanks for the info. Can someone decipher for me what the HS is? For the headset I'm not sure I understand their description. 

Meanwhile, I emailed them to see if rear clearance is limited by the frame or the drive train. And what fork clearance looks like.

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## Innota (Feb 22, 2012)

Rear clearance is limited by drivetrain. Front takes up to 4,8" tires I think.


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## autodoctor911 (Oct 30, 2012)

so, anybody figure out how they are getting a 3x9 to work with 4" tire and a 135-145mm hub, and what appears to be a standard 68/73mm BB?

And as for the rims being different sizes, in the specs pages Weinmann lists the size as 3.0-4 1/4 for their fat bike/chopper rims.

They also list ERTO size(including inside width), and have a picture with the width measurement for each model. The model name pretty much gives away the outside width, with the DHL65 being 65mm wide, DHL80 at 80mm, and DHL100 being 100mm wide. 

interesting is the new DHL101, and 102 models. The DHL101 is a lighter double wall 100mm rim, while the DHL102 is a hybrid single/double wall 100mm rim that is basically a single wall with two hollow tubes near the center. The weight is still pretty heavy at 1270g, but might be comparable to, or even lighter than a Clownshoe when drilled out or maybe milled in a Pratt truss design(Northpaw).


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

It looks suspiciously similar to our Diamant Mammut/ Nakamura BigBob Mk2 models, so they likely run the same 17.5mm offset frame and 100mm BB.
The rims are likely DHL80 rear and DHL100 front.
Undrilled, the DHL101 is lighter, but DHL100 is lighter, with the same 2 rows of 32mm hole pattern that we developed with Weinmann for these rims. DHL102 sits at 990g drilled with the same pattern.
Looks like our assembly factory decided to make our design/spec an open model, not sure if we are too psyched about that, but since BD won't ship to Norway, it is not a big deal for us. However, if they start selling out our new 25lb 100mm/100mm fatbike or the new 23lb 100mm/100mm fat in development, we'll be less than enthusiastic.


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## ward (Aug 20, 2009)

lancelot said:


> Vikb - "The Wallbeast was only a BSO [Bike Shaped Object]"
> 
> Good one vikb! Almost pissed myself.


Ditto!


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

vikb: then this guy should have been disqualified for not using a bike in the rice..

Fat Bike Slays Sea Otter Classic


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

hope they don't go up too quick before i can get one.


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## falkry05 (Nov 23, 2009)

One of my friends just ordered the Fantom FB4 Comp ($700 model). Once he gets it, I'll put up a decent review, and comparing it to my Muk3


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Hmm... from the product description:

_Check the large holes in the rim. Most fat bike rims today are single-wall, one layer of material in the rim. With the cutout single wall rims, the one cool side effect is that you can see the rim tape that bulges out due to the pressure in the tube._

Well. Weinmann DHL80 and DHL100 are both double wall rims. Don't think BD/Motobecane were too involved with the details of development of these bikes, probably because we were the ones who did it for the assembly factory in China. No big deal, though, as they don't ship to Europe. Imitation and flattery and all that.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

wookie said:


> Thanks for the tip! I ordered the 19" comp (cheap one). For $695.00 shipped (no tax)-why the hell not?


I'm seeing $895 and $995... where did you get $695?


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

The anti bd ppl crack me up .. 

Yes bd sell bikes mostly in the sub 1k range. The bike biz guy picks apart bd bikes as if a like priced trek or diamondback at the lbs doesn't have similar cut corners...

Sigh..


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## damnitman (Jan 30, 2008)

...scroll right...


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

autodoctor911 said:


> so, anybody figure out how they are getting a 3x9 to work with 4" tire and a 135-145mm hub, and what appears to be a standard 68/73mm BB?


Either they are wrong about a 145 rear end, and/or wrong about it being centered, or they are not getting full use on the 3 X 9. And that would be with 100 mm bottom bracket. It will be good to see some clarification of what the bikes really have been built to.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

I think these are a great option between expensive fat bikes and the horrible walgoose....


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## falkry05 (Nov 23, 2009)

The bright green one, for $695, on the right. As with all BD bikes that I've bought/friends bought, they need a complete tear down and rebuild. The cabling jobs are especially crappy in most cases.

I think it should suffice for a while, just ride it til you break stuff, then replace. I definitely think the durability will be lower compared to any of the higher priced competitors, but I'd love to be surprised if these are comparable.


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

The green one, and cheapest spec, is $695. I notice, in the picture, it appears to have a different front rim, perhaps the narrower rear rim also used on its front. I just emailed them to ask about it, as I was considering buying one, but want the wider front rim.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

falkry05 said:


> The bright green one, for $695, on the right.


Wow... space cadet! I'm on my tablet and it cropped to the two on the left. :beer:


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I'm interested to see some user pics starting to show up on here.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

boogman said:


> The anti bd ppl crack me up ..
> 
> Yes bd sell bikes mostly in the sub 1k range. The bike biz guy picks apart bd bikes as if a like priced trek or diamondback at the lbs doesn't have similar cut corners...
> 
> Sigh..


Nobody has posted an 'anti BD' post here. Just 'caveat emptor' advice. There is a big difference.
And. By 'bike biz'...I don't sell bikes. At all. I'll pick apart any potential crap I see.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Espen W said:


> Hmm... from the product description:
> 
> _Check the large holes in the rim. Most fat bike rims today are single-wall, one layer of material in the rim. With the cutout single wall rims, the one cool side effect is that you can see the rim tape that bulges out due to the pressure in the tube._
> 
> Well. Weinmann DHL80 and DHL100 are both double wall rims. Don't think BD/Motobecane were too involved with the details of development of these bikes, probably because we were the ones who did it for the assembly factory in China. No big deal, though, as they don't ship to Europe. Imitation and flattery and all that.


Espen, how do the specs on these "Motobecanes" compare to the specs on the BigBoy? Can you give us an idea of weight on the BigBoy?


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## jhmeathead (Apr 15, 2013)

The green one dressed up with purple parts would be sick. Hulk themed. ( comic nerd lol)


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## bhc (Sep 27, 2005)

I too missed that green one for $695. Guessing that one will weigh in over 40 pounds. I bought a BD 3 speed for one of my daughters this spring. Decent enough for the riding she does, but her riding is not out on snowmobile trails when temps are near 0. I will let someone else be the guinea pig.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

boogman said:


> The anti bd ppl crack me up ..
> 
> Yes bd sell bikes mostly in the sub 1k range. The bike biz guy picks apart bd bikes as if a like priced trek or diamondback at the lbs doesn't have similar cut corners...
> 
> Sigh..


Well, I know the Product Managers at both Diamondback and Trek, and I know that they would not take another brands bike, repaint, slap their stickers on it and market it as their own, even though they also have models made at the same assembly factory (in this case Ideal China). I wonder what Specialized would do if some other brand asked the Merida factory (who assembles Fatboy) to build 200 extra Fatboys so that they could sell it under their own brand.
Still, we don't care, since Ideal only produced 200pcs of these bikes, and they are not sold to Europe. In fact, having someone else copy our bikes is just good marketing for us.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

fightnut said:


> Espen, how do the specs on these "Motobecanes" compare to the specs on the BigBoy? Can you give us an idea of weight on the BigBoy?


Their top of the line bike is essentially the same, but they use FSA stem/bar/post, since we use our own C4 branded parts here.
Out of the box, the Mk2 Nakamura BigBob/Diamant Mammut sits at right under 15kg (33lbs) in size 15''. Heavy but durable. Mk3 sheds a huge amount of weight (see below). Mk2 comes with with heavy 4.0 inner tubes (vary from 460-520g a piece). Tubeless setup (120g total with goo), Schwalbe 13F (180-200g) or Maxxis Freeride (295g) is the easiest way to shed a bunch of weight right off the bat.
What will be interesting to see is if the factory will sell our MY14 designs to others as well. That includes a 25lb BigBob 5.0/Mammut F3 with 100mm rims front and rear, 650g fork, 1500g frame, custom Samox PF30 100mm crankset, etc. Production cost of that one is approx 60% higher than the Mk2 bikes, but around 3kg lighter. My own prototype is even lighter at 23lbs, still 100/100 rims and alloy frame and fork (1295g experimental frame), but some of the components are not suitable for mass production.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

MiniTrail said:


> looks like you can give more detail than BD
> 
> What made you decide to go with the fatter front rim only?


Clearance issue. The Vee Rubber Mission has a 4.4'' casing width when mounted on the 100mm Weinmann rims, so we had to use 80mm and 4.0 casing width in the rear in order to have chain clearance in the lower gears with the cranks available as OEM at the time the bike was designed (last fall)
Our first Mk3 prototypes managed to have clearance with 100mm rear rim and the 17.5mm offset design, but for production, we are going with 190mm spacing/hub in order to make room for the new 4.6/4.7'' tire with 6mm knobs that we are developing with Vee-Rubber.
We made it slightly smaller than the Bud/Lou in order to fit all those frames where Lou just barely don't fit. In addition, it will have holes for up to 300 studs (like the Escalator, just more volume and more studs)
It will be called Vee-Rubber Snowshoe, and they will show the first prototypes at Interbike.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

I just ordered a green one, 15 inch. My kids will have a blast on this thing!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Espen W said:


> Clearance issue. The Vee Rubber Mission has a 4.4'' casing width when mounted on the 100mm Weinmann rims, so we had to use 80mm and 4.0 casing width in the rear in order to have chain clearance in the lower gears with the cranks available as OEM at the time the bike was designed (last fall)
> Our first Mk3 prototypes managed to have clearance with 100mm rear rim and the 17.5mm offset design, but for production, we are going with 190mm spacing/hub in order to make room for the new 4.6/4.7'' tire with 6mm knobs that we are developing with Vee-Rubber.
> We made it slightly smaller than the Bud/Lou in order to fit all those frames where Lou just barely don't fit. In addition, it will have holes for up to 300 studs (like the Escalator, just more volume and more studs)
> It will be called Vee-Rubber Snowshoe, and they will show the first prototypes at Interbike.


Thanks for the info especially on the tires!

Now rant time: Why are they in just in the prototype stage? When are companies that are making fat bike related parts and complete bikes going to realize that our winter riding starts in November and to make products available for wholesale early enough so people aren't scrambling to get ready and that's if the stuff comes in at all. That is all.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Cuz winter happens all over the world at different times and we don't even get snow 

We need your late winter tyres for our winter... thought we ride them in summer.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

I'm looking forward to seeing a Go-Pro film of the new DB fatbike owners chortling merrily as they _"Float over three feet of soft powder snow or deep sugar sand and laugh!"
_

Hopefully someone will oblige...


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

I received this confirmation email this morning:

"Hi, Thank you for pre-ordering a New Motobecane FatBike.

These bikes are being ordered at a rate that has shocked us; and they are sure to sell out before they land. We feel you will be extremely happy with this bike and look forward to your direct feedback on it. Please send your comments to Chris at [email protected] or post on mtbr.com.

Your new Fat Bike is built by the same factory that builds bikes for Kestrel, Fuji, Specialized, and dozens of other quality brands [including Motobecane]. Even though the price we are selling the FB4 models at is rather low; we feel certain you will find it's construction is equal in quality to that of any $2000 Fat Bike.

Bikesdirect has not decided how broad to go in the Fat Bike market. We are considering bikes down to $399 and bikes up to $2500 Ti versions. Your purchase and input will be valuable in our decision making process. "

Thanks again

Be Safe and Have Fun 
Order Processing Team at Bikes Direct


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

$399 fat bike? Wow.


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## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

I dislike bikes direct. Their "fire sale" marketing and false msrp numbers are misleading at best and criminal at worst. Some people order from them, thinking they are getting a $2500 bike for $899, but they are just getting an $899 mail order bike. The bikes that are sold on their website aren't sold anywhere else. How can you have msrp numbers for items that aren't sold by retailers? 

Also using names of once respected, defunct bicycle brands like Motobecane, Windsor, and Mercier to slap onto cheap chinese bikes that said companies would never touch with a barge pole is also pretty low.

Their bikes may be a decent value, but their marketing practices are pure slimeball stuff.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

wookie said:


> Even though the price we are selling the FB4 models at is rather low; we feel certain you will find it's construction is equal in quality to that of any $2000 Fat Bike.


I'm all for these... but this info is false on BD's part... just in tires and wheelset alone. I guess they said "we feel" which basically is an empty thought. Anyway... my 2 cents on that 



ultraspontane said:


> The bikes that are sold on their website aren't sold anywhere else. How can you have msrp numbers for items that aren't sold by retailers?


Exactly. :thumbsup:


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## Andy FitzGibbon (Jul 7, 2007)

boogman said:


> The anti bd ppl crack me up ..
> 
> Yes bd sell bikes mostly in the sub 1k range. The bike biz guy picks apart bd bikes as if a like priced trek or diamondback at the lbs doesn't have similar cut corners...
> 
> Sigh..


I bought a Motobecane frame from BD that had the head tube bored incorrectly. The headset cup bores were not parallel- not something that a reaming/facing tool is designed to deal with. With a fork installed, the headset bearings would bind up.

BD wouldn't warranty it because they said I "modified" it by installing a headset (which is how I discovered the problem in the first place). In my conversations with several different employees, it was clear that they had very little knowledge of how bikes work.

For what I paid for the frame, I wasn't surprised by the low QC- but I was quite surprised by the poor customer service I received from BD, particularly when you consider what those frames probably cost them. So, yeah- these look like a good value for someone who doesn't need to spend two grand on a fat bike, but wants something better than a Mongoose- but caveat emptor.


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

69tr6r said:


> I just ordered a green one, 15 inch. My kids will have a blast on this thing!


Cool ... Enjoy it


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## JAGI410 (Apr 19, 2008)

If you care about service or support after the sale...shop at your local bike shop.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

JAGI410 said:


> If you care about service or support after the sale...shop at your local bike shop.


That's pretty much it. A coworker was grousing about this concept of bikes that are cheap but don't last, or bikes that are quality and expensive but he knows his teenager won't use it enough to justify the price. So I recommended bikesdirect to him and told him to assemble it as best he could, and I'd clean up the rest and educate him a bit on maintenance.

There are definitely things missing, like the rear disc tabs weren't faced on his bike (a 29er), and tightening the calipers into position only caused them to lose their position.

If you are mechanically inclined and don't mind a few extra pounds, it's certainly one way to go.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

man if I can swing it. I will get one. I like the fatbike I tired (carbon beargrease) but for just fun recreational riding I can not justify spending $6000 for it


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## Blue Bullet (Mar 19, 2013)

I have a bd full sus... couldn't afford a Santa Cruz Bronson, but not many can. For what I paid, it is a great bike.


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

yo espen is right.. this BD fatbike is basically the diamant mammut bike rebranded

BD haters don't have a fight in this deal!










In video






Diamant / Nakamura ? Mammut / BigBob Prototype(s) ? Norwegian Fatness! | FAT-BIKE.COM

Utpakking av BIG BOB ? FATBIKE « Elisabeth Sveum


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

boogman said:


> yo espen is right.. this BD fatbike is basically the diamant mammut bike rebranded


I checked that out too. If I calculated the Krone to dollar conversion correctly, the cost is just under $1,700.00 American for the Diamant-for whatever that's worth?


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)




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## SmooveP (Nov 30, 2007)

JAGI410 said:


> If you care about service or support after the sale...shop at your local bike shop.


Buying something online doesn't excuse the seller from good service. There are many framebuilders and web stores with excellent customer service. Most of my lbs's don't sell or even know the first thing about fatbikes, so I buy lots of stuff online, from small parts to a $5k complete bike. A crappy service experience gets that supplier crossed off my list.


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

bd offers great cust support... not face to face however.. but great support over emails and shipping replacement parts etc..

I've requested for support from BD for very trivial matters on a $300 bike. I've also requested support from Surly on something similarly trivial on a $1500 pugsley.

Result:

BD: responded over email within a day and resolved the matter quickly by shipping out replacement parts

Surly: never an email response, despite several follow ups.. I guess the douche bags were too busy grooming beards and taking selfies for the blog

Before you say "should work with your lbs yada yada yada..." yea no $it sherlock. but why would they have a contact email on their website? Plus I wanted to hear directly from the mfgr.


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

BD will sell plenty of these, no doubt.

I will continue to save for my On-One Fatty bundle as I appreciate building a bike with quality components that don't need replacing within weeks.


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## Andy FitzGibbon (Jul 7, 2007)

boogman said:


> bd offers great cust support... not face to face however.. but great support over emails and shipping replacement parts etc..


Not always... read post #94.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

wookie said:


> I checked that out too. If I calculated the Krone to dollar conversion correctly, the cost is just under $1,700.00 American for the Diamant-for whatever that's worth?


Norwegian retail is 9999NOK, so that is $1695 at todays rate.
Note that this price *includes the Norwegian sales tax that is 25%*, so the comparable (to US) pricing (w/o sales tax) is $1355. We presold these bikes back in winter and customers could order from the shops at $1085 (before sales tax).
Note that this includes a 2 year warranty (5 year on frame/fork).
Also note that Norway pretty much has the highest cost of living in the world. Gas is close to $11 per gallon, etc.


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

I know BD jacks up their MSRP.. this is obvious... I have never used their claimed MSRP to sway my decision. This goes to pretty much anything I buy... REI might have a jacket on sale for 20%, but their original price might be 20% higher than anyone else... 

It's always a comparison of the purchase price vs the complete bike I'm getting. Any savvy buyer surely takes the same route.

The fact - This bike is cheaper than if you could import it from Norway.. Its much cheaper than any other options available in the US that still gets you a very capable bike.. haters will focus on the claimed MSRP.. ok have a ball


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

I agree with above. It seems that many naysayers like to compare the bikes to more expensive bikes, which BD kind of invites by the way their msrp is inflated. Even with that said, if you compare the bikes to others costing the same, they seem to offer a real value. I have not purchased one, but they have some good deals on the spec sheets.
I like the idea of supporting an LBS, but if a $695 fat bike allows someone to get in to one that otherwise they would not be able to afford , then I think that is great.
Also, any shop that has worthy mechanics will still service your bike, even if you didn't buy it there.
Buy a $30 Park tool bike mechanics manual and you should be able to do most minor work yourself. It's cheap and rewarding .
Is the 695 mb going to be as good as a Mukluk or a Pugsley? I would say no, but a reasonable person shouldn't have that expectation.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Tincup69 said:


> $399 fat bike? Wow.


I'm betting the $399 fat bike will be a single speed. Which might be a great deal since a lot of us have shifters, derailleurs, cassette's, etc. in our bins at home. No sense in paying for low end comps on the $700 bike.


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

I would like to try out one of these fat bikes. Its hard to beat the price for a starter fat bike.

I can not decide between the comp ($695) and the Elite ($895). Is the $200 price difference worth it at that point?


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Since the top of the line BD bike is essentially a rebadged Diamant Mammut:
We got a massive (140 pages+) general fatbike thread over at the Norwegian MTB forum, where we constantly add info about testing, development, etc. Just added info about our new 895g 103mm rims. In addition, one of our customers just mounted Bud/Lou with fork/frame/chain clearance on our MK2 bikes, etc. (on page 140)
[terrengsykkel.no] Arena - Er fat-bike et bra konsept?
For those few of you not well versed in the Norwegian language, run the page(s) through Google translate for a semi-accurate translation of the Norse alphabet soup.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Do you have the geometry numbers for the various frame sizes listed anywhere?


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Chader09 said:


> Do you have the geometry numbers for the various frame sizes listed anywhere?


Indeed:


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

I was thinking the same thing. But after looking at some of the specs I just went with the top end one. The folding bead tires are about 1 1/2 lbs lighter than the wire. And the drive components and brakes are a little better, I figured it would be worth the extra coin.


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

this bike looks wonderful.. thinking of selling my pug for one of these and pocket some $

For the even slightly price conscious folks, why would anyone get a muk over this?


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## bhc (Sep 27, 2005)

*Truth in Advertising*

If you click on the picture of thefront tire on BD page, you will see that tire is not 120 tpi, but 72. It is a Vee Rubber Mission tire. Check out the review one MTBR rider gave of those.

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/mini-tire-review-vee-rubber-mission-26-x4-0-a-862692.html

So figure in a few more dollars for tires, unless as the reviewer said you are just buying it as a cruiser.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

The 72tpi Vee Missions weigh around 1470g, while the new 120tpi ones consistently weigh in at around 1420g, so rather small weight difference between their 72tpi and 120tpi now. I run some of the previous generation (from January) 120Tpi versions that are around 1370g. Works great as an allround tire. Better than the Vee-8 that has gotten some good reviews. The really old ones were 1800g +.


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## squareback (Sep 19, 2011)

sryanak said:


> Well the claim that they will float over 3' of powder snow might be stretching it a bit.


To be fair, BikesDirect is in Texas.........


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

Green or Black ...

These look like they will be fun for the Chicago winter coming up.


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## juxtaposition (Aug 7, 2004)

Does anyone know the actual frame/fork spacing and offset on these?

What about the bottom bracket size?


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

juxtaposition said:


> Does anyone know the actual frame/fork spacing and offset on these?
> 
> What about the bottom bracket size?


Fork: 135mm with front specific caliper offset.
Frame: 100mm BB shell, 135mm spacing with 17.5mm offset


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

I already received an email with a UPS tracking number. The date of shipment is October 15th. I'm just hoping I won't see a delay.


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## Innota (Feb 22, 2012)

I think that Espen W's info actually helps push the BD fat bikes. Not so strange since he created them, but people were more sceptical of them before he showed up.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

bhc said: "If you click on the picture of thefront tire on BD page, you will see that tire is not 120 tpi, but 72. It is a Vee Rubber Mission tire. Check out the review one MTBR rider gave of those.

Mini tire review: Vee Rubber Mission 26"x4.0"

So figure in a few more dollars for tires, unless as the reviewer said you are just buying it as a cruiser."


Keep in mind that this is one persons review on his local trails. 

Hardly enough input to form any kind of an opinion.


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## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

My Mammut is great, my cheapest bike to date and probably the one I have the most /fun/ on.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

epg0 said:


> Green or Black ...
> 
> These look like they will be fun for the Chicago winter coming up.


Yes, they do.

I think its cool that they took the plunge in what's seen at this time to be a low volume biz. But, like anything. The more people you bring to the party, the bigger the party gets.

I'm new to the fat bike scene so if it was me. I'd go green. Looking at the photos it sure looks like a nice frame. The frame looks upgradable should you decide on it.

Good luck.


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

Solo-Rider said:


> Yes, they do.
> 
> I think its cool that they took the plunge in what's seen at this time to be a low volume biz. But, like anything. The more people you bring to the party, the bigger the party gets.
> 
> ...


I pulled the trigger on the black one hah.

I am still debating if I should of just went with the green and used the extra $200 towards minor upgrades or winter clothes, since I am new to the scene was well.

I might switch it up before they sell out of 19 inch.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

epg0 said:


> I pulled the trigger on the black one hah.
> 
> I am still debating if I should of just went with the green and used the extra $200 towards minor upgrades or winter clothes, since I am new to the scene was well.
> 
> I might switch it up before they sell out of 19 inch.


The black looks cool. Besides, what's done, is done. Be happy and congrats. Damn, i need the 17 inch in green. You think if I send them an email they will save me one. LOL!


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Timing is funny sometimes. I've been thinking about a fatty for months, but I'm trying to save for some home improvements. Got the BD email about the bikes last night and really thought about ordering since the price is so reasonable.

This morning my GF mentioned seeing some fat bike pics on Pinterest. She loves the snow and thought those would be major winter fun. I showed her the BD bikes and she was thrilled. I got a text from her later this morning that she was daydreaming about them all the way to, and during work. Gotta admit I spent too much time researching these when I should have been doing other stuff.

She was giddy all day looking at the site and sharing the link with friend. So I bit the bullet and ordered 2 Pro models in medium. I think she is more excited that I am. Gotta love a girl that says "to hell with the roof until Spring" so we can buy more bikes.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

Chader09 said:


> Gotta love a girl that says "to hell with the roof until Spring" so we can buy more bikes.


So what's this whole "girlfriend" thing about then?

Can't stand this song but Beyoncé - Single Ladies (Put A Ring On It) - YouTube


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

LOL, yeah. Gonna fix that in the near future too. Funny thing... this purchase eats into the ring fund, but it will happen with Xmas bonus and vacation buy-back at work.


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## Icey101 (Jan 15, 2012)

After a night of drinking come home to see the ad for these things on FB. I had to have one at that price. After bit of comparing I just ordered the cheapest one...I wanted the green frame, it really came down to that for me. I would have ordered a more expensive model if it came in green. I can't wait to try this thing out. The real goal is to not upgrade the hell out of it like every other bike I own.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Icey101 said:


> The real goal is to not upgrade the hell out of it like every other bike I own.


Gooood luck with that :thumbsup:


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

*Bought the Green One*

Does anyone know how these wheels would compare in quality, durability, and weight to the On One? I may still be interested in the On One bundle if the wheels are a lot better.

It looks like the upgrades between the Green and Black are just items I would want to upgrade anyways, so I may go for the green.

I pulled the trigger on the green one, so once I get the bike I will post some reviews.

Man I have been wanting a fat bike for winter.


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## I like bicycles. (Sep 19, 2013)

It says on the cover 'aluminum' for the frame material, and then says 'alloy' on the bike specs...sorta contradicting itself...this seems like a good deal to get my foot in the door over, since I'm in the market for fatbikes. Should I preorder??


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## damnitman (Jan 30, 2008)

Aluminum | Alloy


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

I like bicycles. said:


> It says on the cover 'aluminum' for the frame material, and then says 'alloy' on the bike specs...


:madman:


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Venturewest said:


> Does anyone know how these wheels would compare in quality, durability, and weight to the On One? I may still be interested in the On One bundle if the wheels are a lot better.




Not quite sure who makes the rim on the On-One , but I seem to remember that they are 70mm? The Motobecane has Weinmann DHL 100 front and DHL80 rear. Both weigh approx. 1070g when drilled with 32mm holes, are double walled and very strong. Weinmann/Rigida is pretty much the biggest manufacturer of rims in the world. Pretty much all the new fatbikes of various brands that are coming out for MY14, that don't use Surly rims (made by Alex Rims) are made by Weinmann. Many use the single wall HL80 (990g drilled with 32mm holes), and some use the double wall versions. Check pics of the prototype Felt fatbike, for example.
Spokes are Pillar 14ga and Pillar brass nipples. Rear hub is Deore, front hubs is a KT made one. (KT (and Joytech) makes pretty much all hubs on the market, regardless of brand name stuck on them (ZIPP, etc).


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

Espen W said:


> Not quite sure who makes the rim on the On-One , but I seem to remember that they are 70mm? The Motobecane has Weinmann DHL 100 front and DHL80 rear. Both weigh approx. 1070g when drilled with 32mm holes, are double walled and very strong. Weinmann/Rigida is pretty much the biggest manufacturer of rims in the world. Pretty much all the new fatbikes of various brands that are coming out for MY14, that don't use Surly rims (made by Alex Rims) are made by Weinmann. Many use the single wall HL80 (990g drilled with 32mm holes), and some use the double wall versions. Check pics of the prototype Felt fatbike, for example.
> Spokes are Pillar 14ga and Pillar brass nipples. Rear hub is Deore, front hubs is a KT made one. (KT (and Joytech) makes pretty much all hubs on the market, regardless of brand name stuck on them (ZIPP, etc).


Thanks for the information. I ordered the cheapest of the 3 bikes, but now I have noticed that the green bike has 28mm holes. Also in the photo it only has one row of holes. Do you think it just has the 80mm rim front and back or do you think this is a differant rim altogether?

I found your attachment of the geometry and looked that over. I am 5'11", do you think a medium or large would fit the best? What are your thoughts on the 120tpi versus 27 tpi tires? I am kind of thinking I should have bought the PRO.

Thanks again.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Venturewest said:


> Thanks for the information. I ordered the cheapest of the 3 bikes, but now I have noticed that the green bike has 28mm holes. Also in the photo it only has one row of holes. Do you think it just has the 80mm rim front and back or do you think this is a differant rim altogether?
> 
> I found your attachment of the geometry and looked that over. I am 5'11", do you think a medium or large would fit the best? What are your thoughts on the 120tpi versus 27 tpi tires? I am kind of thinking I should have bought the PRO.
> 
> Thanks again.


Very likely the same rims. Looks like 100mm front. Size M (17'' (c-t)) is correct.
Don't recall the weight of the 27tpi tires, but 120tpi are only around 50g lighter than the 72tpi ones.


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

Espen W said:


> Very likely the same rims. Looks like 100mm front. Size M (17'' (c-t)) is correct.
> Don't recall the weight of the 27tpi tires, but 120tpi are only around 50g lighter than the 72tpi ones.


So just to clarify, you think that the green bike's front rim also looks like a 100mm but with only one row of holes drilled instead of two? Does Weinnman produce an 80mm and 100mm rim that has 28mm instead of 32mm holes? 
Thanks for your help!


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Yep, I have seen a number of bikes with HL80 and DHL80 with 28mm holes instead of the 32mm pattern that we developed with them quite a while back.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

You's Statesiders are lucky to have these at such a good price, if we had these bikes available here they would sell like hot-cakes, i would even buy the missus one and she doesn't even ride.


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

how is aluminum as fork material? compared to steel?


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

boogman said:


> how is aluminum as fork material? compared to steel?


Quite nice material. We are running a 650g aluminum fork (@ 200mm steerer) that is fully CEN approved on our upcoming Mk3 models.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Steel is the best material for a fork and a frame in my opinion. BUT the cush of a fatbikes tyres will even the field easily, alu is lighter than steel but not as light as carbon.

Fatbikes kind of break the rule of trail compliance because of the smoothness of the phat tyres.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

boogman said:


> how is aluminum as fork material? compared to steel?


Come on... sorry... I'm not trying to be a jerk... but some of these comments????

WHY would aluminum be any different for a fork than it is for the rest of the bike? 90% of all other fat bikes are aluminum with aluminum forks... except Surly... so they are the minority. *Again... not trying to be a jerk*... but some of you guys need to do a little more research *on your own* and less hand holding from the forums (that already have all these answers, again... if you search on your own).


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Duggus you posted 1min after me.... a bit of *bold* and smileys going on there so you are probably not referring to my post ?

I will just clarify, i currently have 4 bikes and all are fully rigid, ive had 11 bikes in the past 6 years. I have carbon wheels on 2 of my current rides.

Ive owned and still own.... a full alu rigid, full carbon rigid, Scandium with carbon rigid (still have the one9), Ti with carbon rigid (still have the obeast), Steel with carbon rigid (still have the indy fab) and the mukluk was Alu with steel, and got a fully carbon CX though that doesn't count. The rest are FS bikes, material doesnt really matter with them.

There is no noticeable difference on a fatbike apart from the back end.... the post in question was about the fork.

On regular bikes with 2.2" tyres there's no doubt IMO that steel is the nicest frame material, alu and carbon feel exactly the same....scandium feels a little bit different, thats why i have kept my one9 rather than downgrade to the NEW hydroformed One9.

The only thing that anyone will feel with a steel fatbike fork over an alloy fatbike fork is weight, the big old tyre will suck up the difference in both, you might as well go carbon.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

ozzybmx said:


> Duggus you posted 1min after me.... a bit of *bold* and smileys going on there so you are probably not referring to my post ?


No... I wasn't... was referring to the post I quoted and some others. Wasn't trying to rip on anyone too bad... just lots of questions lately that could easily be answered by a quick google/bing/etc search. So is the world of forums, right


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

*Tires*



Espen W said:


> Very likely the same rims. Looks like 100mm front. Size M (17'' (c-t)) is correct.
> Don't recall the weight of the 27tpi tires, but 120tpi are only around 50g lighter than the 72tpi ones.


You have been very generous with the information. Much appreciated.
One more question for you or anyone else.

Is there much of a difference in general between folding bead or wire bead. The Pro is folding and elite is wire in the 120 TPI.

I ended up getting a refund on the COMP and now deciding between the other two models.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Folding is usually much lighter. Double check that they are indeed 120tpi, as Vee Rubber almost doubled the price on the 120s overnight, but started offering an only slightly heavier 72tpi at the old 120tpi price. My guess is that they are both 72tpi. Check the pics.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Folding is 350g (0.77lbs) lighter according the Vee Rubbers site...
VRB-321(Mission) - Vee Rubber| vehicle tires, motorcycle tires, bicycle tires , truck and bias tires,bike tires,fat bike


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

*Medium PRO sold out*

Wow! I was just getting ready to buy the PRO in medium and it is already sold out. I grabbed the Elite.

Thanks for the info on the tires. Guess I am getting wire bead.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

boogman said:


> how is aluminum as fork material? compared to steel?


And what about Alloy? :eekster:


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

Espen W said:


> Folding is usually much lighter. Double check that they are indeed 120tpi, as Vee Rubber almost doubled the price on the 120s overnight, but started offering an only slightly heavier 72tpi at the old 120tpi price. My guess is that they are both 72tpi. Check the pics.


The pic shows all three have 72tpi.

The specs say that the comp has a 27 tpi wire


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

ozzybmx said:


> Duggus you posted 1min after me.... a bit of *bold* and smileys going on there so you are probably not referring to my post ?
> 
> I will just clarify, i currently have 4 bikes and all are fully rigid, ive had 11 bikes in the past 6 years. I have carbon wheels on 2 of my current rides.
> 
> ...


I have had whippy aluminum bikes with a ton of flex in the frame and fork, (trek 8000/kinesis fork). I also have had unforgiving rigid steel bikes that will bet you to a pulp (OS steel frame with karate monkey fork that was about as compliant as a Cannonade pepperoni).
It is how the product is engineered rather than what it is made out of that determines the ride. 
Although steel has a higher modulus of elasticity than Alu I doubt it is a big factor with Fatbikes.... other than steel will eventually rust.


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

*Green Medium is gone also*

If you want a medium Fantom FB4 you better get on it. The greens are also sold out. Just a few black ones left I think. The elites. I called BD and they said that the specs should be right. The photos were taken at the factory, but the specs should be more current, although the rep I spoke to said verify that with sales.


epg0 said:


> The pic shows all three have 72tpi.
> 
> The specs say that the comp has a 27 tpi wire


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

What number did you call? They hide their phone info well on the site.


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

Chader09 said:


> What number did you call? They hide their phone info well on the site.


It is a phone number that shows up briefly when you try to check out with an item that is out of stock. The lady I spoke to is not in sales, so wasn't helpful with specific details, and only knew if that bike had sold out.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

They made a total of 210 bikes (70pcs per model) so I would assume them to move pretty fast. When they are sold out, ya'll are welcome to cross the pond and buy the bikes that these Motobecanes were based on, and get in some good old fashioned Arctic fatbiking as well


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Espen, thanks for all the input on these bikes. Like mintrail said, I hope you sell a bunch of yours over there. 

As for us over here (USA), I do hope Bikesdirect will get more in.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Chader09 said:


> LOL, yeah. Gonna fix that in the near future too. Funny thing... this purchase eats into the ring fund, but it will happen with Xmas bonus and vacation buy-back at work.


Aw-right!!!!
...I like this reply.
...I smell cake...


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

@ zarr, lol thx

@ fightnut, Selling out the Mediums in less than a week is an amazing response. Depending on how they split the 210, that is probably 70-100 bikes. I suspect they will sell out the other sizes in short order too. I'm not in the "industry", but I have to think that is not overly common.

The price is just too good to ignore. I suspect they are already thinking about ordering more. And based on the order confirmation email, they are considering an expansion to the line for higher and lower specs than the 3 current models.


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## waterboy179 (Sep 16, 2011)

I was able to put in an order for a medium green comp last night but I haven't gotten an order confirmation yet just PayPal receipt. So if these are sold out will I be put on a waiting list or just have my order canceled?


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

waterboy179 said:


> I was able to put in an order for a medium green com last night but I haven't gotten an order confirmation yet just PayPal receipt. So if these are sold out will I be put on a waiting list or just have my order canceled?


If you check some of the other random listings on bikesdirect... usually when they are sold out of a size they will put **SOLD OUT** in the drop down next to size. If you where able to order one I think you are in the clear. It says on the drop down too that it will say sold out at checkout. Not sure where people are seeing sold out.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

If you add one that is sold out to cart and click the "Check Out" button, it will show an error (The item you selected is unavailable at this time) at the top of the next page and say "Sold Out" in red text under the "Order Summary".

They will probably update the size drop-down box at some point to show what is still available and what is sold out. But this appears to be a manual operation, so there is some delay between it and the actual inventory.


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## waterboy179 (Sep 16, 2011)

Thanks for info. I did receive an order confirmation a few minutes ago so I guess I'm good. When I tried ordering yesterday afternoon, at checkout it said not available so that's why I asked. This is my first Fat bike, but #6 in my "collection". I need to sell some before I'm sleeping on the couch.


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## trener1 (Aug 15, 2004)

I just tried ordering the Green one in Medium and it's sold out, looks like they still have the black one in Medium but since this was just to see if I even like fat bikes, I only wanted to spend $700, bummer. if anyone out there changes their mind please let me know.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

did you see if they will be getting any more in?


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## trener1 (Aug 15, 2004)

They don't show stock, it just says sold out when you try to buy it.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

trener1 said:


> They don't show stock, it just says sold out when you try to buy it.


Well...who knows??
They might get more.
But no despair...I believe more cheep fatty's are coming soon...like everything else,start off with a big splash, then the cool down.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

trener1 said:


> I just tried ordering the Green one in Medium and it's sold out, looks like they still have the black one in Medium but since this was just to see if I even like fat bikes, I only wanted to spend $700, bummer. if anyone out there changes their mind please let me know.


wanted a green one for the same reasons. $700 was my budget. However, they are sold out so I'm stepping up to the elite. It cost more however, should save me a little in the long fun because of a slightly better build.

My gf is going to kill though. She doesn't understand..


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Just show her the price difference to the next best thing outside the BD line. You are saving money even with the extra 2 bills compared to $2k or more for a new one from any other company.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Chader09 said:


> Just show her the price difference to the next best thing outside the BD line. You are saving money even with the extra 2 bills compared to $2k or more for a new one from any other company.


That goes without saying but, for her it might need to be said.


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

Solo-Rider said:


> wanted a green one for the same reasons. $700 was my budget. However, they are sold out so I'm stepping up to the elite. It cost more however, should save me a little in the long fun because of a slightly better build.
> 
> My gf is going to kill though. She doesn't understand..


My girlfriend already had something to say about the random $900 toy I just bought

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

HUB SPECS:
"DISC FREEHUB 9/10SP(ALLOY SHIMANO CASSETTE BODY,3PAWLS AND 3 SPRINGS) W/2 SB+AL END CAPS.14/32 M10*135*145MM AL7075 AXLE, FINISH: ANODIZED BLACK,W/QR"

Does this mean the hub is 135mm wide with a 145mm long axle, or is it a 145mm wide hub? Doesn't make much sense at all to have a super oddball hub width, but stranger things have happened I guess. What do you guys think?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Vittetoe761 said:


> HUB SPECS:
> "DISC FREEHUB 9/10SP(ALLOY SHIMANO CASSETTE BODY,3PAWLS AND 3 SPRINGS) W/2 SB+AL END CAPS.14/32 M10*135*145MM AL7075 AXLE, FINISH: ANODIZED BLACK,W/QR"
> 
> Does this mean the hub is 135mm wide with a 145mm long axle, or is it a 145mm wide hub? Doesn't make much sense at all to have a super oddball hub width, but stranger things have happened I guess. What do you guys think?


Go through this thread and read everything this dude Espen W has posted and all your answers will be revealed.


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

epg0 said:


> My girlfriend already had something to say about the random $900 toy I just bought
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2


Dude.. your "GF" making a comment about "your" money?

GF?!


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

Espen W said:


> Fork: 135mm with front specific caliper offset.
> Frame: 100mm BB shell, 135mm spacing with 17.5mm offset


Found it...buried deep in the thread. Guess I wasn't paying close enough attention the first time through.

Thanks for all the replies on here, Espen. Really going above and beyond considering this is your design that is essentially getting ripped off.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Vittetoe761 said:


> Found it...buried deep in the thread. Guess I wasn't paying close enough attention the first time through.
> 
> Thanks for all the replies on here, Espen. Really going above and beyond considering this is your design that is essentially getting ripped off.


Not sure if that's right either.

Our first Mk3 prototypes managed to have clearance with 100mm rear rim and the 17.5mm offset design, but for production, we are going with 190mm spacing/hub in order to make room for the new 4.6/4.7'' tire with 6mm knobs that we are developing with Vee-Rubber.


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## wrightcs77 (Oct 6, 2008)

bdundee said:


> Not sure if that's right either.
> 
> Our first Mk3 prototypes managed to have clearance with 100mm rear rim and the 17.5mm offset design, but for production, we are going with 190mm spacing/hub in order to make room for the new 4.6/4.7'' tire with 6mm knobs that we are developing with Vee-Rubber.


The BD bikes are the mk2 version, not mk3.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 4


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

It's just so confusing. I quite going back to the bikes I know now


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

So it looks like it is either 135mm offset, or 190mm symmetrical. 

As long as it is one of those two spacings (or even 170mm for all I care) and not 145mm. Just give us something that is somewhat standard.


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## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

For San Deigo - Zumalts will build and order fatty parts as will SunCoast Cycles had a pugs in shop for a while, Adams Ave and Big Ring Cycle just to name ones around my hood.

All the folks at all the shops are awesome (some more cocky than others)- each shop has its charm - Big Ring has been making fat cruisers for a while - they know fat and can do anything.

I do not work for any of them - I just like the local folks a lot. Spend more at the LBS and get a lot more!



wrightwoodfilms said:


> Since I cant seem to get the local shops on board with the fattys I have been pushing these to the not sure about spending the money on a Fatty.. I at least want my friends getting the bug.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

epg0 said:


> My girlfriend already had something to say about the random $900 toy I just bought
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2


My lady doesn't get because she can't see why anyone would want to ride a bike out in the freezing cold. She's from Colombia, so I can see her perspective on this.

Still, I ordered the bike anyway.


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## falkry05 (Nov 23, 2009)

I guess I'll be able to give a fairly good report on these. after riding my muk3, 5 friends ordered either the $700 or $900 models. based on my experience with bikes direct, were having a tear apart and rebuild party for 5. I'll be supervising and teaching mechanical skills while doing some tasty brews.

it's great to have friends be the test subject for these. you'll never pry my " expensive" ride out of my dead pogie toasty hands.


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## Larry Endomorph (Jan 2, 2011)

falkry05 said:


> I guess I'll be able to give a fairly good report on these.


This should be interesting. Looking forward to your report.


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

falkry05 said:


> I guess I'll be able to give a fairly good report on these. after riding my muk3, 5 friends ordered either the $700 or $900 models. based on my experience with bikes direct, were having a tear apart and rebuild party for 5. I'll be supervising and teaching mechanical skills while doing some tasty brews.
> 
> it's great to have friends be the test subject for these. you'll never pry my " expensive" ride out of my dead pogie toasty hands.


Wow...sounds like a good time for everyone. Whre do you live? Lol


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

falkry05 said:


> I guess I'll be able to give a fairly good report on these. after riding my muk3, 5 friends ordered either the $700 or $900 models. based on my experience with bikes direct, were having a tear apart and rebuild party for 5. I'll be supervising and teaching mechanical skills while doing some tasty brews.
> 
> it's great to have friends be the test subject for these. you'll never pry my " expensive" ride out of my dead pogie toasty hands.


I've never bought a bike from BD-never thought I would either. However, I picked one up with the intention of trying out fat bikes on the cheap! If I like it, I'll buy a more expensive fat bike next year. I'm an experienced mechanic too, so I fully intend on overhauling the entire bike; I know what I'm getting myself into.

I live in Utah and it can snow up to 6 months a year. I am looking forward to receiving my pseudo-fat bike. I do feel a bit guilty though. I do fundraising locally for our trails and QBP/9:Zero:7 (distro) are just down the street.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

I'm having trouble thinking of these bikes as "imitation fatbikes".
...I mean...just because they aren't spec'd like more expensive ones, and the frame/fork quality isn't as good...aren't they still fatbikes?
(Not meant to criticize anyone...just a thought)
Thanks


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## falkry05 (Nov 23, 2009)

I believe they're a real fat bike, just low end components like brakes, shifters,etc and questionable assembly quality. Its a great deal of these aren't problems to you. it's a great way to get a lower cost product out and to get people in the sport. once/if the low quality posts fail, you'll upgrade and have your " real" fat bike after having a few winters of fun on the cheap. 

oh yeah, I'm up in madison wi. great place to experience the full versatility of these bikes in summer and winter.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

wookie said:


> I've never bought a bike from BD-never thought I would either. However, I picked one up with the intention of trying out fat bikes on the cheap! If I like it, I'll buy a more expensive fat bike next year. I'm an experienced mechanic too, so I fully intend on overhauling the entire bike; I know what I'm getting myself into.
> 
> I live in Utah and it can snow up to 6 months a year. I am looking forward to receiving my pseudo-fat bike. I do feel a bit guilty though. I do fundraising locally for our trails and QBP/9:Zero:7 (distro) are just down the street.


I have bought over the year's a Santa Cruz, Fuji and two bike from bikes direct. A 26er and a CX bike. To be fair, I never needed to overhaul the bikes I received from them. Sure, I needed to make adjustments and the wheel on my CX bike was bent however, they did replace that.

I'm excited to receive mine as well. From what i've been reading in this thread. It looks like the frame was developed by respected Euro designer.

That's a big plus. I'm sure this will be a quality fat bike.

Good times are a coming!


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

If they would only sell the frame or frame/fork as a stand alone...
...but I guess that's asking for too much at this time...huh?


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

zarr said:


> If they would only sell the frame or frame/fork as a stand alone...
> ...but I guess that's asking for too much at this time...huh?


At this time, parts cost way too much. From, what I've been seeming we're much better off getting a complete bike.

When components prices start coming down. Then it would be cool if they just sold a frame option.

Just my opinion.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

That would be a nice option. However, BD seems to offer mainly complete builds.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Solo-Rider said:


> At this time, parts cost way too much. From, what I've been seeming we're much better off getting a complete bike.
> 
> When components prices start coming down. Then it would be cool if they just sold a frame option.
> 
> Just my opinion.


true that...I have the parts already (some)...and I like searching out and building from scratch.If it's done right, it can be cost effective, but not easy.It takes time.
I been checking bikeisland.com (who partners with Bikes Direct I believe)...but I doubt fatbike frames will show up there.
...mmmm.
...but what if they do???


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## falkry05 (Nov 23, 2009)

You can check their partner website which sells take-offs/frames/parts/etc with the same business model and bikesdirect. BikeIsland.com - Bicycle Parts, Accessories and Clothing at Affordable Prices with Free Shipping. I've bought some blemished road frames from there, they do a fairly good job describing if its new/damaged/etc.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

...also...
Waiting for Bike Nashbar to jump in...like they did with 650b.
Sometimes the least expected sources are the main ones.


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

This will be my first fat bike, so I don't know much, but it looks like a good way to get into it. I plan to tear it down and rebuild it, but that's a good night with some friends so I look forward to it. I took a leap with a $1000 SS and sold it to get a $3000 SS. If I do the same with a fat bike then BD did a service to the biking world. I don't care if people think it is a real fat bike, I think I will have "real" fun with it. That's really all that maters right?


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

yellowzx said:


> This will be my first fat bike, so I don't know much, but it looks like a good way to get into it. I plan to tear it down and rebuild it, but that's a good night with some friends so I look forward to it. I took a leap with a $1000 SS and sold it to get a $3000 SS. If I do the same with a fat bike then BD did a service to the biking world. I don't care if people think it is a real fat bike, I think I will have "real" fun with it. That's really all that maters right?


true that...
no doubt.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

falkry05 said:


> You can check their partner website which sells take-offs/frames/parts/etc with the same business model and bikesdirect. BikeIsland.com - Bicycle Parts, Accessories and Clothing at Affordable Prices with Free Shipping. I've bought some blemished road frames from there, they do a fairly good job describing if its new/damaged/etc.


LOL-
I must've benn writing at the same time your post appeared.
...At any rate...I believe this is the beginning of fatbikes for the masses.:thumbsup:
...Patience.....


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## falkry05 (Nov 23, 2009)

I had a good laugh about that too. I say ride em til they die on the trailside or you die of frostbite. Either way, itll be a fun ride. I'm excited to have a fatbike gang this winter.


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## bhc (Sep 27, 2005)

Back in April Nashbar posted on their Facebook page hinting about an upcoming fat bike. I would bet they would want to get it available before the snow flies if they have something in the works.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

bhc said:


> Back in April Nashbar posted on their Facebook page hinting about an upcoming fat bike. I would bet they would want to get it available before the snow flies if they have something in the works.


good 2 know.
...Maybe pricepoint/Sette too???
mmmm.


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## bhc (Sep 27, 2005)

If I was in the industry watching BD sell out of product in a week, I would want to jump in to the market.

And if any in the industry out there are paying attention to this, how about a 1 x9, going real cheap on pedals and saddle, since those are generally upgraded to fit preferences of rider. We see you could easily come in under $1000.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

wow, those are cheaper than a surly at wholesale, and by a good bit!

I'm tempted to sell my krampus and try one of these.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

yellowzx said:


> I don't care if people think it is a real fat bike, I think I will have "real" fun with it. That's really all that maters right?


Honestly, I don't think anyone's said that. Most have agreed these look like great bikes for starters and the upper models will most likely be totally fine for fun on your local trails.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Interesting to hear about Nashbar. It makes sense considering their offerings in other areas (29er, 650b, fixie, etc.) It's good to have competition and broaden the range of available products to fit all price points.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Dunno where BDs regular bikes are assembled, but the fatbikes are assembled at Ideal China, which is a very modern, top notch bike factory. They make/have made bikes for pretty much any major brand in the business. The factory is partly owned by Fuji bikes and make pretty much all the Fuji models. 
They build a lot of our mid end MTBs as well as hybrids and entry/mid road bikes. Our higher end bikes are assembled at the Axman factory in Taiwan (Axman builds the Surly and Salsa bikes as well). The reason why we build the high end models in Taiwan is that it turns out less expensive, since most of the high end parts are made in Taiwan, saving shipping cost to mainland China. I would have no problems having Ideal assemble our top of the line models, though, including the new 13.8lb XX1 equipped 650b model.
In fact, we have had more quality issues with assembly quality and frame quality on the bikes coming out of the high end Axman factory than has been the case with frames and assembly out of Ideal. We have QA agents in both places.
Since Ideal basically repainted and rebadged (as well as some spec change) our bikes and sold to BD, we probably should be ticked off, but having a US based company use our bikes boosts our image over here (Norway). 
A while back, we let our other fatbike supplier essentially rebadge one of our Mk2 prototypes to use as the Norco Bigfoot prototype that they showed this summer.
They changed some stuff for production, but it has a lot in common with our Mk2 Mammut/BigBob.
We have allowed Ideal to use our base model Mk3 spec available to other companies, as long as they don't sell to European brands, or brands shipping to Europe. However, our upcoming 25lb (or less) $2400ish bike/spec is off limits. Too much time/money put into developing custom stuff and spec solutions for that one.


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## dudeist (Apr 3, 2013)

MiniTrail said:


> Pretty sure Mongoose will be making some changes
> 
> this pic got leaked a few weeks back and few noticed. This is a 20"er. I'll bet they're hard at work on the 26er too
> 
> ...


...


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## jhmeathead (Apr 15, 2013)

If these bikes sold sold fast and are obviously your design why dont you ship to other parts of the world? Its pretty clear theyd sell. Id be pretty pissed if someone took my product and made money off it . No hate or anything honest question.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

jhmeathead said:


> If these bikes sold sold fast and are obviously your design why dont you ship to other parts of the world? Its pretty clear theyd sell. Id be pretty pissed if someone took my product and made money off it . No hate or anything honest question.


Good questions. On the copy part: it seems that the assembly factory is the one to blame, but as mentioned, for that specific model, and the small number of bikes, it is not a big deal, actually got us some valuable PR over here.
We are not set up for export, unfortunately. The brands Diamant and Nakamura are owned by the biggest sporting goods company in Norway, and the bikes (annual production of around 100,000 bikes (120 different models)) are sold through our approx. 300 franchise stores, Intersport and G-Sport, and we can only sell to our own stores.
With the new fatbikes, we are seeing some interest from abroad, and some customers from nearby countries like Sweden and Germany make the trip to buy bikes. 
We recently received our Mk2 bikes, and the 800 bikes sold out pretty much right away. Not bad in a country of not much more than 4 million.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Espen W said:


> On the copy part: it seems that the assembly factory is the one to blame, but as mentioned, for that specific model, and the small number of bikes, it is not a big deal, actually got us some valuable PR over here.


It's nice to read that bikes direct didn't just steal your design. Wouldn't want that implied every time I ride. I'm also, glad you received some valuable PR for the Norwegian brand.

So, I guess, it was a win-win situation for both.

Thanks for a stunning design.


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

Espen W said:


> Good questions. On the copy part: it seems that the assembly factory is the one to blame, but as mentioned, for that specific model, and the small number of bikes, it is not a big deal, actually got us some valuable PR over here.


First, Espen thanks for your input to this thread (and others). I've learned something about the production side of bikes.

It certainly seems to me like your design is being ripped off. The factory wouldn't make those frames if they didn't have a buyer so in that sense BikesDirect is at least partly to blame. But, in another post you said you have QC agents at the factory - is it possible that these bikes (frames) are ones that did not pass your QC controls? That seems more like BD / Bike Island's business model.

I don't know how valuable the PR is if you're not in a position to take advantage of it by selling bikes here. If I were you, I'd be looking for a big US distributor/retailer. One order from a place like Performance could double your annual sales.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

GT_guy said:


> First, Espen thanks for your input to this thread (and others). I've learned something about the production side of bikes.
> 
> It certainly seems to me like your design is being ripped off. The factory wouldn't make those frames if they didn't have a buyer so in that sense BikesDirect is at least partly to blame. But, in another post you said you have QC agents at the factory - is it possible that these bikes (frames) are ones that did not pass your QC controls? That seems more like BD / Bike Island's business model.
> 
> I don't know how valuable the PR is if you're not in a position to take advantage of it by selling bikes here. If I were you, I'd be looking for a big US distributor/retailer. One order from a place like Performance could double your annual sales.


I'm not going to get too in to this. I just love a good forum. Any one can say what ever they want. Even if the designer himself tells everyone he received valuable PR. Some one else will imply he didn't'

Too funny.


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

Solo-Rider said:


> I'm not going to get too in to this. I just love a good forum. Any one can say what ever they want. Even if the designer himself tells everyone he received valuable PR. Some one else will imply he didn't'
> 
> Too funny.


Guess I misunderstood what Espen meant by "here" in his statement. Apologies for my US-centric assumption.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Yup, we received good PR here in Norway. Over here, it is often assumed that all MTB innovation happens in the US, so this has actually suprised quite a few folks and generated quite a bit of attention for our bikes. We see extensive copying done by our Norwegian competitors, but first time by a US based company, so that was actually pretty fun. 

Of course, having an established brand like Norco use much of our spec (we allowed our common supplier to do that) is even better PR.

We'll see what the future brings in terms of distribution abroad. Fatbikes definitely have changed quite a few things.


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## smithcreek (Nov 27, 2012)

Espen W said:


> Over here, it is often assumed that all MTB innovation happens in the US, so this has actually suprised quite a few folks and generated quite a bit of attention for our bikes.


Help me out here. What exactly is "innovative" about this bike?


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

smithcreek said:


> Help me out here. What exactly is "innovative" about this bike?


Mk2 isn't very innovative technology wise, that is why we don't have any big issues with Ideal/BD using that frame/fork/most of the spec, even though our Mk1/Mk2 bikes were among the first to use non-Surly parts: Weinmann rims, Samox cranks, Vee-Rubber tires, etc. We did develop the various rims with Weinmann, they are now being used by Norco, Felt, Kona, and a bunch of others.

Ours was the first affordable (non mailorder) fatbike (over here in Europe), with customers being able to purchase it at less than half the price of a standard Pugsley.
As a result, the fatbike market here exploded, going from 50 bikes a year to us selling over 1000pcs already, in a population of 4 million. Basically sold out now, two weeks after the Mk2 bikes arrived. As a result, a bunch of other Norwegian brands have jumped on the bandwagon, with some being basically carbon copies of our models.

Techwise, the upcoming Mk3 is a lot more interesting:

New 1290g alloy frame (size 17'') even though production will likely see the 190mm version (approx 1490g)
Custom 650g alloy fork (fully CEN approved) with space for 5'' on 103mm rims
Custom PF30 crankset with easily adjustable chainline for clearing big tires.
Custom sub 350g 190mm rear hub
Custom alloy 103mm rims @ 850g
Custom 19g grips that insulate extremely well, so perfect for winter use.
New sub 220g 135mm front hub
In addition, we designed the new Vee Rubber Snowshoe 4.7'' studable (300 studs) tire with Vee Tire.

Weight is in the 25lb range on 103mm rims front and rear and space for Bud/Lou and price will be sub $2400. Might drop down to 23lbs if we can get the 80mm version of Stan's rim in time for production.


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

wookie said:


> I received this confirmation email this morning:
> 
> "Hi, Thank you for pre-ordering a New Motobecane FatBike.
> 
> ...


You must have gotten the special treatment. I ordered 2 of these bikes and I just got a generic thank you and shipment information email. They didn't elaborate at all about fat bikes.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

For reference, here is the info I got after my orders:


> Hi, Thank you for pre-ordering a New Motobecane FatBike.
> 
> These bikes are being ordered at a rate that has shocked us; and they are sure to sell out before they land. We feel you will be extremely happy with this bike and look forward to your direct feedback on it. Please send your comments to Chris at [email protected] or post on mtbr.com.
> 
> ...


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

Espen W said:


> ...
> 
> Techwise, the upcoming Mk3 is a lot more interesting:
> 
> ...


Espen:

Please think about finding a way to get these in the hands of MTBR readers worldwide. I volunteer to be the first to get pictures of a Diamant MK3 being ridden on the North Shore and around Whistler - that could get you some good street cred over there  Of course, I'd need to find a rider with skills to be in the pictures - shouldn't be too hard around here.

I've wondered if the best way to get both weight and price down together was to integrate a custom lightweight frame, fork, crankset, hubs and tubeless rims. Kudos to Diamant/Nakamura for trying.


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

Chader09 said:


> For reference, here is the info I got after my orders:


That is funny that there is a difference in the order confirmation email. I went back through and checked both my orders and neither have this information. But I do have a tracking number that is good on October 8th so that is what matters.


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

Just ordered a 19" pro (the other two models were sold out in that size). No tracking number yet, but it still says Oct 8-15 shipping.



Venturewest said:


> That is funny that there is a difference in the order confirmation email. I went back through and checked both my orders and neither have this information. But I do have a tracking number that is good on October 8th so that is what matters.


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## Prof. Chaos (Oct 25, 2005)

Tincup69 said:


> $399 fat bike? Wow.


Where is this one?!? the cheapest i see is $699. 
I wonder if I could mount a Rohloff on 0ne of these... Would that count as situational irony? Probably just counts as stupidity.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

There is not one available for $399 right now. See my previous post with the BD email information. It is a price point they are considering if they like the way the 3 current models sell.

Based on the near sellout after only one week, I suspect more of the existing models and the other price points they mention are very likely to happen. 

Quite a lot still rests on how well the actual bikes are received/reviewed. Will be interesting to see what happens.


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## wilburspud (Sep 23, 2013)

I would have already ordered on of these if they had them in the 21 inch frame. I want a fat bike. I wander if the largre size is coming or should i just order on the the new specialized fatboys?


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## Prof. Chaos (Oct 25, 2005)

Nothing but smalls left in any of the models... Curse you "sleep on it" thought!


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## Prof. Chaos (Oct 25, 2005)

Chader09 said:


> There is not one available for $399 right now. See my previous post with the BD email information. It is a price point they are considering if they like the way the 3 current models sell.
> 
> Based on the near sellout after only one week, I suspect more of the existing models and the other price points they mention are very likely to happen.
> 
> Quite a lot still rests on how well the actual bikes are received/reviewed. Will be interesting to see what happens.


Thanks Chader. I missed that nuance as I was skimming along late at night. I think you are right, and we may see these other price points. Perhaps they will make a Ti version in there as well. They offer their 29er in Ti, so it's not beyond possibility. I would have a hard time sleeping on that one! Anyone else interested? (They may be watching )


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Prof. Chaos said:


> Nothing but smalls left in any of the models... Curse you "sleep on it" thought!


*YES! Professor Chaos is in the house!!!*


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

How bad would it be for someone 5'10"ish to ride the small? My opportunity to finally purchase a new bike is with in the next 2 weeks and who knows when they will get the larger sizes back in. Measured my current bike yesterday and it is 16.5. How much of a difference does 1.5" make?


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

arock said:


> How bad would it be for someone 5'10"ish to ride the small? My opportunity to finally purchase a new bike is with in the next 2 weeks and who knows when they will get the larger sizes back in. Measured my current bike yesterday and it is 16.5. How much of a difference does 1.5" make?


Can't see it. 5'10 should be medium or maybe even large. I ride with two people that are 5'10... One rides 17.5 and the other 19. DO NOT make the mistake of buying a bike that doesn't fit. Trust me...there will be plenty if opportunities to get a deal on a fat bike , and they will likely get even cheaper. 
1.5 inches may not sound like a lot, but the entire bike will be smaller. Just offering my opinion, but wait...


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## utabintarbo (Jun 29, 2007)

Prof. Chaos said:


> Thanks Chader. I missed that nuance as I was skimming along late at night. I think you are right, and we may see these other price points. Perhaps they will make a Ti version in there as well. They offer their 29er in Ti, so it's not beyond possibility. I would have a hard time sleeping on that one! Anyone else interested? (They may be watching )


FWIW, I'm not sure if a Ti offset frame would work well. One of the big advantages of Ti is its compliance, and I think that having non-symmetrical chain/seatstays would make for an oddly noodly ride. Not hardly an expert, however, so YMMV.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

15'' is rideable for you. 
We specified a fairly long TT so that riders could pic a frame with good standover clearance.
They have an effective TT length of 588mm (23.15'') in that size.
Reach is 594.1mm.
Dunno if they use a 400mm post as we did. We used 80mm stem length for the 15'', not sure of BD did the same. Ask them, I'm sure they have all the info. Maybe.


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## trener1 (Aug 15, 2004)

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, but decided against it, no deal is good if the bike dosen't fit.


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

fat_tires_are_fun said:


> Can't see it. 5'10 should be medium or maybe even large. I ride with two people that are 5'10... One rides 17.5 and the other 19. DO NOT make the mistake of buying a bike that doesn't fit. Trust me...there will be plenty if opportunities to get a deal on a fat bike , and they will likely get even cheaper.
> 1.5 inches may not sound like a lot, but the entire bike will be smaller. Just offering my opinion, but wait...


Disregard frame size numbers. Measure the effective top tube length of what you are riding and go from there.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Assuming BD is using the same numbers as Diamant... 
Here is the info EspenW posted earlier.
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/moto-bikes-direct-fatbikes-875900-5.html#post10684843


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks for the replies. Looks like the top tube length difference is only a little over 1/2" between the small and medium frames. Ill have to measure my current bike this evening and see how it compares. If they are close it sounds like I may possibly just need to get a longer seat post and the small may work.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

30mm difference from S to L. 588mm on S and 618mm on the L.
I know ya'll know how to translate to British units if required


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Fellas: just noticed that I made a typo earlier in the thread:
Our Mk2 Diamant/Nakamura bikes (and by default the Motobecanes) have 21.5mm offset, not 17.5 as I posted. It was our Mk1 bikes that had 17.5mm

This provides excellent clearance. We have mounted Surly Lou on the 80mm rear rim w/o rubbing, but heavier riders will have some rubbing, but that tire is a monster, even on an 80mm rim. This is where our new 4.7'' Vee Snowshoe comes in.

Also:
Due to production tolerances, on some bikes, we have seen slight front caliper to spoke contact during cornering. This is easily solved by placing thin washers (typically 0.8mm) between the hub and rotor.
This was the case on our models that use Tektro HDC-300 brakes.
It also seems that Tektro used an aggressive thread locking compound on the rotor and caliper fixing bolts. 20-30 seconds with a heat gun before unscrewing the bolts solves that issue.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

arock said:


> Thanks for the replies. Looks like the top tube length difference is only a little over 1/2" between the small and medium frames. Ill have to measure my current bike this evening and see how it compares. If they are close it sounds like I may possibly just need to get a longer seat post and the small may work.


I bought the 15 inch, mostly for my kids who are 13 and 10, average heights. I was thinking the 13 year old will fit perfect on it (he's about 5-5), and hoping my 10 yo can handle it (4-11), if not this year, then next year. I also want to be able to ride it when my (Non-fat) friends want to go for a fat bike ride. I'm 5-10 and have an 18 inch Pugsley that I will lend out to my riding buddies, as they are taller than me.

Yes, it's all about the reach. Check out Drevil's bike. That has what looks like a 13 inch seat tube.


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

Just finished measuring my current bike. Top tube measured in at about 23.25". Think I'm gonna go ahead and order the small on Friday when I get paid. If it turns out to be too small I'm sure I'll probably be able to resell it for close to what it will cost me. Thanks for all the help.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Aside from Bigbob and Mammut, which fatbike would you say this bike's geometry is closet to? Is this more of a trail geometry? Or more of a beach cruiser geometry?


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

TooSteep said:


> Espen:
> 
> Please think about finding a way to get these in the hands of MTBR readers worldwide. I volunteer to be the first to get pictures of a Diamant MK3 being ridden on the North Shore and around Whistler - that could get you some good street cred over there  Of course, I'd need to find a rider with skills to be in the pictures - shouldn't be too hard around here.
> 
> I've wondered if the best way to get both weight and price down together was to integrate a custom lightweight frame, fork, crankset, hubs and tubeless rims. Kudos to Diamant/Nakamura for trying.


Seriously! That thT bike over here! You'd destroy qbp's offerings


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Mr. Doom said:


> Disregard frame size numbers. Measure the effective top tube length of what you are riding and go from there.


As long as you don't run out of seat tube, I have this problem and it kinda sucks.


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## Prof. Chaos (Oct 25, 2005)

utabintarbo said:


> FWIW, I'm not sure if a Ti offset frame would work well. One of the big advantages of Ti is its compliance, and I think that having non-symmetrical chain/seatstays would make for an oddly noodly ride. Not hardly an expert, however, so YMMV.


point taken, and a good one at that. I hadn't thought of that, but I have been looking at some of the belt drive & IGH combos, and Gates requires frames be submitted for stiffness testing in order to qualify for a Rohloff/Gates configurations and there are several Ti frames that make it.

http://www.g-boxx.com/pdf/Frame-Manufacturer-Overview-1.pdf

didn't notice a BD frame on there though.  off topic? of course! (embrace the chaos- it could probably use a hug)


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

utabintarbo said:


> FWIW, I'm not sure if a Ti offset frame would work well. One of the big advantages of Ti is its compliance, and I think that having non-symmetrical chain/seatstays would make for an oddly noodly ride. Not hardly an expert, however, so YMMV.


907 made ti offsets, they worked fine.


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## manfromwillow (Sep 15, 2012)

I have wanted a fat bike for years, saving here and there but never came close to getting the moonlander I wanted. Then I saw this option, a third the price. I quickily put an older bike on Craigslist and a few other things....my tracking number says October 15 as a ship date. I went with the mid level build for two reasons, flat black is my style and I'm not a huge fan of shimano acera (have that on my Diamond back 29er). I'm looking forward to joining the fat bike community. 

Thank you Espen for all the insight.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

manfromwillow said:


> I have wanted a fat bike for years, I went with the mid level build for two reasons, flat black is my style and I'm not a huge fan of shimano acera (have that on my Diamond back 29er). I'm looking forward to joining the fat bike community.


Start doing smile exercises now while you wait... you'll be doing a lot of it when you get out on your new fat bike


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

arock said:


> Just finished measuring my current bike. Top tube measured in at about 23.25". Think I'm gonna go ahead and order the small on Friday when I get paid. If it turns out to be too small I'm sure I'll probably be able to resell it for close to what it will cost me. Thanks for all the help.


If it's like most bikes i'd say...a medium would be closer.
But back in the day...a lot of mediums had shorter top tubes than more up-to-date bikes.
So if you can be happy with a longer stem...and you don't forsee any foot/toe interference from the front wheel...you'll be good to go one way or the other.
...Just my .02.

(I know...MTB-itis bites hard. LOL


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## manfromwillow (Sep 15, 2012)

JusHi, Thanks for being a smart cyclist and saving hundreds off your new Motobecane FatBike FB4 

Update on your order - these incredibly fun Fat Bikes are nearly pre-sold out! Wow! Due to production timing and availibility, the factory had to change the tire spec from what was originally listed to the V-Rubber Wire Bead 72TPI. The 72TPI was the tire that was available at production time and is as pictured. If this is a deal breaker for you, PLEASE LET US KNOW RIGHT AWAY AND WE CAN REFUND YOU IN FULL. 

Thanks again for being a smart cyclist and saving hundreds off your new Motobecane FatBike FB4. 

Best regards, 

The Friendly Folks at Bikesdirect.com got this in an email from bikes direct:


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

*Hmm*



manfromwillow said:


> JusHi, Thanks for being a smart cyclist and saving hundreds off your new Motobecane FatBike FB4
> 
> Update on your order - these incredibly fun Fat Bikes are nearly pre-sold out! Wow! Due to production timing and availibility, the factory had to change the tire spec from what was originally listed to the V-Rubber Wire Bead 72TPI. The 72TPI was the tire that was available at production time and is as pictured. If this is a deal breaker for you, PLEASE LET US KNOW RIGHT AWAY AND WE CAN REFUND YOU IN FULL.
> 
> ...


Hmm, which model did you get? I wonder if they're doing this across all three. That would be really unfortunate as the lighter tire was one of the bigger differences. I haven't gotten an email yet (Pro 19")

EDIT: Damn, just got the same email. They should offer a partial refund for the difference.


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## manfromwillow (Sep 15, 2012)

I ordered the black one, mid level size large


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

Yep, I got the same email on the black large. 

I wonder now if trying to move from black to green and save $200 due to all using same tire. 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

I ordered a 15" Comp (green), and got the same email. This is an upgrade for me as they had previously spec'd the Comps with the 27 TPI tires...I guess it pays to be a cheap a$$ from time to time!


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

randomsample said:


> EDIT: Damn, just got the same email. They should offer a partial refund for the difference.


I dunno... you guys are still getting a killer price. Sell them online or local (or keep for backup) and buy a used set or new set of some lighter tires. Lots to choose from now.

But I do see where you are coming from... kind of "bait and switch"-like... but sounds like it was out of their control.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

I ordered the elite as well. However, I'm sure my bike will deliver the fun factor I was hoping.

I looked over the specs between the comp vs the elite and I feel I'm still getting a lot for not too much more money.

I'm going to feel like a kid opening a cracker jack box. I know there is something good inside.


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

duggus said:


> I dunno... you guys are still getting a killer price. Sell them online or local (or keep for backup) and buy a used set or new set of some lighter tires. Lots to choose from now.
> 
> But I do see where you are coming from... kind of "bait and switch"-like... but sounds like it was out of their control.


True enough, which is why I'm not going to cancel. It still kind of sucks to change the specs after the money has changed hands though.


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

Well if anyone would like to cancel theirs I will gladly pick it up. They completely sold out of all sizes on the green model. Not that I want a bright a$$ green bike but that was the one that was within my budget.


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

arock said:


> Well if anyone would like to cancel theirs I will gladly pick it up. They completely sold out of all sizes on the green model. Not that I want a bright a$$ green bike but that was the one that was within my budget.


That's unlikely, as the green one actually got upgraded from the given spec.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Here was my reply to them:



> 1) I still want to keep my order for the two Pro models in medium. I still like the bikes as a whole despite this substitution.
> 
> 2) However, I feel that some price adjustment is appropriate because this change occurred after the sale based on the original specifications.
> 
> ...


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

I'd say if you are unhappy , take the refund. Really doubt they would reimburse you over something they could re- sell immediately .
Sounds A little fishy though


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Claimed weight for the 72tpi kevlar bead is 1500g, but we weigh most of them in at right around 1470g, (with 120tpi folding at around 1420g.) However, claimed weight for 72tpi steel bead is 1930g, a whopping 430g per tire, 860g (1.9lb) difference on the bike vs. folding bead.
Difference in FOB price (what the bike factory/brand pays for stuff) is only 12% more for the folding bead version of the 72tpi, making it fairly logical for a product manager to pick the folding version....

ie. they are probably telling the truth about availability, and didn't pull a stunt to save a minimal amount of dollars per bike.

Fat tire availability is the big crux these days. The reason why Specialized won't be able to deliver Fatboy until December is that Kenda has been delayed with the production of Ground Control 4.6.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

As I stated, I still want the bike and think it's a fine deal in general. The next best option is more expensive than I want spend and that is the reason I chose the BD Pro level bike in the first place.

Just because they can sell it to someone else who is less informed or late to the party, is no reason I should pay the same amount. They are delivering less than what they promised at the time I made my payment.

They have given only two options:
1) Keep the deal and price paid despite the downgrade.
2) Cancel the deal all together for a full refund.

I am offering a third option that I feel is appropriate.
3) Discount the bike price by the price difference in the tires. Pretty simple really. 

The whole "bait and switch" feel could put other customers off of pre-orders.

If this is acceptable, what prevents more changes to our current orders or orders on other bikes in the future? Just playing devil's advocate a bit.


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

Chader09 said:


> As I stated, I still want the bike and think it's a fine deal in general. The next best option is more expensive than I want spend and that is the reason I chose the BD Pro level bike in the first place.
> 
> Just because they can sell it to someone else who is less informed or late to the party, is no reason I should pay the same amount. They are delivering less than what they promised at the time I made my payment.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more. Even if I would have purchased the bike anyway, having it downgraded after purchase feels like being cheated. It's not really economically rational of me to feel that way, but I'm sure I'm not alone. Especially given the small volume of this sale, they would gain more in brand reputation than they would lose in dollars by offering a small discount for the downgraded bikes.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Espen thanks for all your input
When you state delay in production, do you mean the tire is not ready for "prime time" or not enough units?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I think this is a pretty cool bike at a great price and I would be pissed at the tire change at the last minute. Fat tires are expensive and to upgrade to a lighter tire is going to be pricey. That being said I believe and I hope I'm wrong but this is the first of many problems we will hear about.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

rjedoaks said:


> Espen thanks for all your input
> When you state delay in production, do you mean the tire is not ready for "prime time" or not enough units?


Not sure what caused the delay, could be problems with prototypes, or more likely production issues. This is the first fatbike tire for Kenda, and it is possible that some unforeseen problems showed up. It is interesting that the sample bikes even at Interbike were sporting Bud/Lou.
Compare that to Vee Rubber: We started the work on the new 4.7 Vee Rubber Snowshoe at the time of the Taipei show in March, and they had a finished prototype (missing the stud pockets, though) at Interbike.
Vee Rubber is a tremendous asset for the fatbike community (and boy is that growing), so they really deserve our support.


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## tommillermn (Oct 24, 2005)

For the "Fat Curious" as another reader said, not a bad way to go. Being someone who manages a bicycle shop, I always hate to see these "half off comparable" deals. You are getting what you pay for and nothing else. The other nothings you get are no service, no professional build, no guarantee of replacement parts, no outside rep for warranty issues, no money staying in your community. Many of my customers want to ride more but simply don't have the money for the bikes I carry. I tell them that I'd rather make the money tuning up their box store/internet bike and maintaining it over the years than try to compete on price. These bikes would be a great way to get more people on fatbikes. Additionally, many of these customers will buy high end bikes in the future when they figure out how different the one that costs twice as much really is. So buy it if you just want a fatbike to get out and ride, but find an IBD to help you out with service and parts.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Espen W said:


> Not sure what caused the delay, coud be problems with prototypes, or more likely production issues. This is the first fatbike tire for Kenda, and it is possible that some unforeseen problems showed up. It is interesting that the sample bikes even at Interbike were sporting Bud/Lou.
> Compare that to Vee Rubber: We started the work on the new 4.7 Vee Rubber Snowshoe at the time of the Taipei show in March, and they had a finished prototype (missing the stud pockets, though) at Interbike.
> Vee Rubber is a tremendous asset for the fatbike community (and boy is that growing), so they really deserve our support.


So looking forward to the specs on the Snowshoe and I sure hope to see them soon. The problem with the Fat bike parts market has at least before has been that after the initial supply things were no longer available till the following year. So in all reality it was jump on the first parts to come out and hope it was the best or get screwed and out of luck. Hopefully this year things will play out a little better and we can at least see some specs and get to make an informed decision. Of course that doesn't mean the stuff will actually come in so in the end we could be out of luck anyways. I just hate this last minute short supply thing.


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

Espen W said:


> Vee Rubber is a tremendous asset for the fatbike community (and boy is that growing), so they really deserve our support.


I get what you're saying, but I have to say that the 26x4 Devsit8er is quite possibly the worst tire I have ever tried in my 29 years of cycling. It gave me new respect for what Surly/Innova have done with their tires. I'd rather pay $120-150 for a tire that handles well than $30 for a tire that doesn't.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

jnroyal said:


> I get what you're saying, but I have to say that the 26x4 Devsit8er is quite possibly the worst tire I have ever tried in my 29 years of cycling. It gave me new respect for what Surly/Innova have done with their tires. I'd rather pay $120-150 for a tire that handles well than $30 for a tire that doesn't.


They have admitted that their very first entries basically sucked, but they have come a long way since that, with the 1370g versions of the Mission and Vee-8, the Speedster, 4.7 Snowshoe, 4.25 1300g Sterling and the (On-One) Floater.


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

Chader09 said:


> Here was my reply to them:


I understand, and cant blame you for trying, but I cant think of any teason that they would give you a partial refund when they are offering to give you a full refund. They know, as well as you do, that they can resell them at full price with the cheaper tires. 
You are still getting a good deal and will likely upgrade several items in the near future. 
You could always take the tires off and ebay them before use, then use that cash towards whatever tires you want


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

tommillermn said:


> For the "Fat Curious" as another reader said, not a bad way to go. Being someone who manages a bicycle shop, I always hate to see these "half off comparable" deals. You are getting what you pay for and nothing else. The other nothings you get are no service, no professional build, no guarantee of replacement parts, no outside rep for warranty issues, no money staying in your community. Many of my customers want to ride more but simply don't have the money for the bikes I carry. I tell them that I'd rather make the money tuning up their box store/internet bike and maintaining it over the years than try to compete on price. These bikes would be a great way to get more people on fatbikes. Additionally, many of these customers will buy high end bikes in the future when they figure out how different the one that costs twice as much really is. So buy it if you just want a fatbike to get out and ride, but find an IBD to help you out with service and parts.


Why do you question their warranty clause and replacement parts? I have dealt with BD on multiple warranty issues and they have always provided excellent service. They are among the best e-commerce experiences I've had. no in person service but that's obvious for anyone going in


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

jnroyal said:


> I get what you're saying, but I have to say that the 26x4 Devsit8er is quite possibly the worst tire I have ever tried in my 29 years of cycling. It gave me new respect for what Surly/Innova have done with their tires. I'd rather pay $120-150 for a tire that handles well than $30 for a tire that doesn't.


that's probably not a fair comparison. Take for instance, the tire that Vee Tires have made for On-One, the Floater, is by all accounts an excellent tire. I look forward to their snowshoe and other new tires.


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

Espen W said:


> They have admitted that their very first entries basically sucked, but they have come a long way since that, with the 1370g versions of the Mission and Vee-8, the Speedster, 4.7 Snowshoe, 4.25 1300g Sterling and the (On-One) Floater.


Any idea what the MSRP on the Vee Snowshoe will be?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

wookie said:


> Any idea what the MSRP on the Vee Snowshoe will be?


Tis the magic question plus actual size+weight+availability date=?


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

fat_tires_are_fun said:


> I understand, and cant blame you for trying, but I cant think of any teason [reason] that they would give you a partial refund when they are offering to give you a full refund. They know, as well as you do, that they can resell them at full price with the cheaper tires.


Just because they could sell it to someone else at the original price, does not make it "OK" to change the deal. A sale is essentially a contract to provide goods or service in exchange for money. The price and spec were already approved by both parties at the time of sale.

Now they change the specs and are essentially charging me more money for less quality parts. There was nothing stated about "specs may change", so I am disappointed with their choices to resolve the issue.

Anyone buying now "knows" what they are paying for and getting (unless the specs change again?). My issue is that they change the specs and only offer and "take it or leave it" options.

Consider the stated reason for the change. They have limited availability of the nicer tires to fill the orders. BD is choosing to make a downgrade substitution so they can complete the pre-ordered bikes for sale.

Therefore, I fully expect that they will be paying a lower price for the wire bead tires rather than the folding bead from their manufacturer/supplier. They get a discount that saves them money, which obviously increases their profits when they hold the original price.

They had an original spec with the folding tires and set a price they thought was good for them and the consumer. That contained a profit margin that they were happy with or they would not have offered the spec/price.

Why wouldn't they adjust the price and make the same profit as they originally intended? It sticks us with the bill for their mistake and a less than ideal transaction with BD. If EspenW's estimate is accurate, that 12% difference is probably $10-15 at their cost for both tires. Double that for a common profit and you get in the ballpark of what I estimated for a final price difference in my suggestion earlier.

The dollar amount is minor compared to the image that we take from this transaction. It smacks of a company focused exclusively on maximizing profits more than customer satisfaction. This seems counter to their apparent ethos of offering "amazing deals" compared to "name brand" bikes that maximize the buyer experience.



fat_tires_are_fun said:


> You are still getting a good deal and will likely upgrade several items in the near future.


I agree that I am still getting a good deal, just not the same one I agreed to initially. However, I take exception to your claim that I "will likely upgrade several items in the near future". You have no ideas what I plan to do with these bikes.

The whole reason I chose the Pro model is so I wouldn't have to upgrade anything. That included high spec, light weight tires at a great price until the recent change. If I was merely looking for the cheapest entry and planned to swap parts, I would have picked the Comp model. Not to mention that my GF liked the green or black better. I actually talked her into the Pro because of the better specs.



fat_tires_are_fun said:


> You could always take the tires off and ebay them before use, then use that cash towards whatever tires you want


Again, this is counter to the whole reason I chose the Pro.

So, I get tires I don't want, have to sell them myself for $20-25 a piece if I'm lucky. Mail them off to the buyer. Then I spend $37-50 a piece for the tires that were originally spec'd. I end up spending an additional $24-60 (and the time to make that all happen) just to get the same bike I agreed to buy. All that instead of a minor adjustment by BD to the price making a deal at the same profit they already agreed to make.

Sorry for the argumentative tone, but I don't like people spinning this into a positive scenario when I'm getting less than I agreed to buy.

I am still getting the bikes, but I have more to consider and possibly do than I had planned. The deal is less attractive than the first offer and is not a positive start in the buying/ownership experience. It does not reflect well on BikesDirect with respect to customer satisfaction.


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

Not trying to spin...you have valid points. I guess I was just trying to reassure you that you are still getting a great deal on two bikes, and dont want to see your experience ruined over tire specs.
As for the upgrade point, I have not upgraded my Pugsley yet either, but assuming you will ride them often, things wear out and need replaced....like tires. Not trying to ruffle feathers. Enjoy your bikes..


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Chader09 You obviously haven't followed most BD threads over the years. 
The people who actually purchase their bikes have a positive image of them. It's the non buyers that have a problem w/ their business practices.
If I felt like yourself I would not give them a penny, but I don't.
Your principles fall apart when it comes to saving cash.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Understood. It is still the best deal available at the moment despite the tarnish from the downgrade.

I know that the tires in particular are wear items. Maybe I will hate them for traction, etc. and end up wanting something different. I just didn't want to have to lug around and extra 1.5-2.0 lbs while I burned them down 

Either way, as my GF said, "We will ride the sh!t out of them!"


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

thats the attitude


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

rjedoaks said:


> Chader09 You obviously haven't followed most BD threads over the years.
> The people who actually purchase their bikes have a positive image of them. It's the non buyers that have a problem w/ their business practices.


I know about other peoples experiences. I have followed a few specific bikes from them over the years (CX, road, MTB, etc.). However, nearly all of those were orders on "in-stock" bikes that did not experience last minute changes to specs like the current situation. I am speaking for myself about my first actual buying experience with BD, that is all.

I expect the bikes to come with the normal issues that need attention during assembly based on what I have read about their other bikes. Other than that, I expect them to run well, hence the reason I actually bought two.



rjedoaks said:


> If I felt like yourself I would not give them a penny, but I don't.
> *Your principles fall apart when it comes to saving cash.*


Care to explain this?

I chose a company with a specific business model that intends to save a customer money compared to other offerings. They do it with a direct to consumer process and lack of "real" locations.

That practice does not make it acceptable for them to change the product at any time prior to delivery. They have offered options. However, I think they are slightly unfair and not in the best interest of the buyer.

Possible explanations?
1) Their story is true, the parts they intended to include aren't available. So they choose to make more money on a lesser product by not adjusting the price.
2) They sold the bikes so fast, they realize they should have charged more. So they "downgrade" tires to save a few bucks.
3) 1 is true, but they aren't changing any prices because they are losing money on the Comps, and making it back on the Pros.

#1 is probably correct, but don't see why they wouldn't make a "peace" offering and make it right for the customer.
#2 falls apart when you consider the upgrade that the Comp models receive.
#3 might just be the "even Steven" approach, some win... some lose.

All this speculation as to motive is pointless though and we can only judge based on what they have stated and allowed for options.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Chader09 
Whoa, that was good. All I'm saying is, if you don't like the way they do business don't support em.
Enjoy your bikes. Honestly


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

MiniTrail said:


> does the site linked by the OP reflect the change yet?


Yes, all models show:
V-Rubber 26x4.00, VRB321, NORMAL Wire Bead, BK 72TPI
It was probably changed around the same time the emails went out.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Espen W said:


> Not sure what caused the delay, could be problems with prototypes, or more likely production issues. This is the first fatbike tire for Kenda, and it is possible that some unforeseen problems showed up. It is interesting that the sample bikes even at Interbike were sporting Bud/Lou.
> Compare that to Vee Rubber: We started the work on the new 4.7 Vee Rubber Snowshoe at the time of the Taipei show in March, and they had a finished prototype (missing the stud pockets, though) at Interbike.
> Vee Rubber is a tremendous asset for the fatbike community (and boy is that growing), so they really deserve our support.


thanks for the info


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

The only reason I went for the blue was for the tires, I love the black frame. But I can see me on blue, it's kinda growing on me. And next summer when I get some new tires it will make it a new bike, that much weight off the wheels is going to be huge. So it sucks that I will have to pay more but now I get a Christmas present and then a birthday present later.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

I just had a phone conversation with Mike from BD. He explained their plans and objectives for these bikes and the reasons for their choices in the current issue. 

I appreciate that he took time to answer my questions and share more information than I would have expected.

I understand their situation and am happily awaiting the arrival of our new fat bikes. This will be a fun winter.


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

Do those plans happen include getting anymore in stock anytime soon??


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## ham_bone (Sep 27, 2013)

IMO Chader09 is absolutely correct in his evaluation of the situation. It's simply not appropriate to take money (and particularly in a pre-order situation) and then change the spec before delivery. The obvious solution would be to adjust the price to compensate for the lower value tire. The take-it-or-leave-it attitude is totally unprofessional. And... It's likely illegal. I guess one could take delivery of the bike and then use Pay-Pals legal services to force BD to respond with ethical business practices. Or, BD could do the responsible thing, do the math, and quickly refund all buyers the difference (what would it be $30 - $50) via paypal. Done.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Chader09 said:


> I just had a phone conversation with Mike from BD. He explained their plans and objectives for these bikes and the reasons for their choices in the current issue.
> 
> I appreciate that he took time to answer my questions and share more information than I would have expected.
> 
> I understand their situation and am happily awaiting the arrival of our new fat bikes. This will be a fun winter.


I think after all the fuss you made earlier in the thread, you kind of owe it to the rest of us to give a full explaination of what Mike said about the tire choice and their "plans and objectives" and why you now feel better about the "bait and switch".


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

*Component Discussions and First Upgrades*

So now that these bikes are basically sold out, and we know what we are expecting in the mail, I am curious as to your thoughts about the spec'ed components and the first upgrades you are planning on.

I personally will probably switch the tires to On One Floaters, and go tubeless first thing. I would probably swap the rear derailleur to a SLX or XT at some point. The brakes I will either switch to Avid mechanical or Shimano Deore or SLX.

Anyone have any personal experience with the Samox crankset? Do you think this will be equivalent in quality to the Samox specified on the Specialized Fatboy?

Thoughts on the FSA cockpit?


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Slow Danger said:


> I think after all the fuss you made earlier in the thread, you kind of owe it to the rest of us to give a full explanation of what Mike said about the tire choice and their "plans and objectives" and why you now feel better about the "bait and switch".


Mike said that he planned to contact those of us who raised concerns about the substitution directly via phone. He did that for me because of my emails and possibly the comments here.

There was no confidentiality requirement, but I feel that most of our conversation was intended as a private discussion between the buyer and seller. If you are a buyer and want more information, let them know and I suspect they will work with you.

What I will say is this: they want to improve availability of fat bikes to buyers across the whole spectrum of price points and bring the overall price of each one down to more reasonable levels. That statement fits their objectives across the entire line of bikes they offer.

This is their first step in that process specifically aimed at fat bikes. I understood his position and agreed to keep my orders in place. They want to make these types of bikes more affordable and accessible to all, which is a goal I admire.


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

He called me too, less than an hour after I sent an email.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

*Upgrades.*

My only initial change will be a saddle. I like Specialized saddles and have spares on hand for new bikes. This is really a preference/comfort issue rather than a quality one.

Tires are the only real upgrade I plan to do (go figure). I'm trying to decide if I want to order something else right now based on existing reviews or wait and try the tread at least. I know I want lighter, folding tires, but not sure what is best for my area and likely usage.

I want to do lots of snow, but I think dry trail riding is also very likely based on how much other riders in the area like their fattys in the Spring & Summer. I'm hoping all the other components are solid for a season if not more.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

yellowzx said:


> He called me too, less than an hour after I sent an email.


Are you keeping your order too?


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

Yeah. I wanted to try and get the black instead of blue, but they are sold out. It's still a good deal and I know I will have fun with it.


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## Gibster (Jun 20, 2013)

Hey all, keep an eye on the website after 5pm EST. They did something on Facebook this afternoon and potentially offered some a possible second chance. If they have some left over they are going to open it to the public....maybe!

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 4


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## Prof. Chaos (Oct 25, 2005)

Gibster said:


> Hey all, keep an eye on the website after 5pm EST. They did something on Facebook this afternoon and potentially offered some a possible second chance. If they have some left over they are going to open it to the public....maybe!


:drumroll:


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## Gibster (Jun 20, 2013)

I was just able to order the 17" Elite from their Facebook promo. It might be worth a try to "like" BD on FB, find the post about this, follow the directions, and send them a message. 
Good Luck!



Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 4


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## Gibster (Jun 20, 2013)

Gibster said:


> I was just able to order the 17" Elite from their Facebook promo. It might be worth a try to "like" BD on FB, find the post about this, follow the directions, and send them a message.
> Good Luck!
> 
> Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 4


This oppoortunity ends at 5:00 pm EST.

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 4


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## Prof. Chaos (Oct 25, 2005)

the only thing i could find was a page that hadn't been updated since 2011... where was the post of which you speak?

oh... no spaces? clever

(Thanks yellow)


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

Search bikesdirect no spaces


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## trener1 (Aug 15, 2004)

Yeah I actually was able to pick one up this afternoon through that facebook thing.
They said that if anything is left after 5:00 it will be up on their site.


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

Was able to pick up a 17" comp from the fb thing this afternoon. Super excited. Been riding a full suspension walgoose for the past 6ish years. Most of the gears don't work and the suspension is terrible. Been super impressed that the bike has lasted as long as it has, especially considering where and how I ride. This is going to be a major upgrade for me. Can't wait to tear up the trails.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

arock said:


> Was able to pick up a 17" comp from the fb thing this afternoon. Super excited. Been riding a full suspension walgoose for the past 6ish years. Most of the gears don't work and the suspension is terrible. Been super impressed that the bike has lasted as long as it has, especially considering where and how I ride. This is going to be a major upgrade for me. Can't wait to tear up the trails.


holy ****! 6 years of riding on a walfoose is the pits! If you're the mechanic I think you must be, that can keep a wallroose running for so long, then a bd fatbike will be right up your alley. You may find yourself flummoxed by the components that so easily bend to your will, requiring only allen wrenches and the occasional screwdriver...so few hits from the hammer. I've tuned up enough shitty brand new wallcycles to know how much of a treat you're in for.


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## Apexrider (Dec 30, 2010)

*Vee Mission in Snow?*

Anyone seen/heard anything about snow performance of the Vee Mission? The posted reviews make it sound like a half decent all-around fair-weather/cruising tire, but looks like it might not be enough in the snow. I'm thinking an immediate upgrade might be in order, possibly to the On-One Floater since this is a budget bike after all.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

I had similar questions. The few reviews I found are for dirt, not snow.

Earlier this morning, I ordered Floaters for both of my bikes. It's price and reviews seem really good and it gets the weight reduction that I want too.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Apexrider said:


> Anyone seen/heard anything about snow performance of the Vee Mission? The posted reviews make it sound like a half decent all-around fair-weather/cruising tire, but looks like it might not be enough in the snow. I'm thinking an immediate upgrade might be in order, possibly to the On-One Floater since this is a budget bike after all.


I've been viewing videos on going tubeless. At some point I would like to go lighter.


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## Apexrider (Dec 30, 2010)

Solo-Rider said:


> I've been viewing videos on going tubeless. At some point I would like to go lighter.


Was thinking that too, but it looks like you can shed almost as much with a lighter tube than will be spec'd. I wouldn't be surprised if the tubes on these are pushing 600g so maybe save ~300g/tire with some Q-tubes 2.4-2.7. Obviously there are other reasons to set up tubeless, but I don't think the weight savings justify the hassle in this case.

Lighter Fatbike Tube Alternatives | FAT-BIKE.COM


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Apexrider said:


> Was thinking that too, but it looks like you can shed almost as much with a lighter tube than will be spec'd. I wouldn't be surprised if the tubes on these are pushing 600g so maybe save ~300g/tire with some Q-tubes 2.4-2.7. Obviously there are other reasons to set up tubeless, but I don't think the weight savings justify the hassle in this case.
> Lighter Fatbike Tube Alternatives | FAT-BIKE.COM


Oh, nice. Thanks for the heads up.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Standard Vee Rubber 4.0 tubes usually come in at 420-480g, while the Schwalbe 13F (rated to 3.0) weigh on average 190g, so you can shed up to 600g on the bike with these. We have been testing them for tons of miles and hours on our new 103mm rims with Vee Mission, and they work great. Some folks have reported 13F occasionally rupturing, but we have zero failures so far.
The 295g Maxxis Freeride 2.2-2.5 works great as well.


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

I was looking at the shipping info and it said that for the pro the shipping weight is 30lbs. Shipping weight usually includes the packaging too. Is that right? That would make the bike about 28lbs, that seems a little low to me.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Not sure where you see that on their site (I tried searching). But that is extremely unlikely. Depending on frame size, I expect the the Pro to come in around 37lbs with the wire bead tires. This is based on a listing from EspenW that their bike was around 35lbs with the folding tires.

With packing material, these are probably in the 40-45 lbs range shipped.


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

Chader09 said:


> Not sure where you see that on their site (I tried searching). But that is extremely unlikely. Depending on frame size, I expect the the Pro to come in around 37lbs with the wire bead tires. This is based on a listing from EspenW that their bike was around 35lbs with the folding tires.
> 
> With packing material, these are probably in the 40-45 lbs range shipped.


30# is listed on the ups site with the tracking number.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Don't most Fatbikes ship in two packages. The box would be extremely oversize combined
That 30# figure could be the frame and components less the wheels. Just a thought


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## waterboy179 (Sep 16, 2011)

Also, the UPS listed weight could be updated once they actually ship the bikes. We'll find out next week!


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

Just picked up a XT clutch RD for my race bike (Anthem) and will be installing the SLX RD from the Anthem on the fatty. Also going to pick up a Deore rear 10spd shifter to replace the Acera that comes on the Comp model. That will make the drivetrain 3x10, which I may make 2x with a bash guard to avoid snagging any winter gear on the big ring. Hopefully the Somax crank isn't a complete turd and the drivetrain will be fairly reliable going forward. After the drivetrain upgrade, I think I'm just going to run it as is for a while. 

What is everyone else's plan for these bikes? I'm interested in what tires will fit...hopefully Bud and Lou are friends with the frame!


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

Vittetoe761 said:


> Just picked up a XT clutch RD for my race bike (Anthem) and will be installing the SLX RD from the Anthem on the fatty. Also going to pick up a Deore rear 10spd shifter to replace the Acera that comes on the Comp model. That will make the drivetrain 3x10, which I may make 2x with a bash guard to avoid snagging any winter gear on the big ring. Hopefully the Somax crank isn't a complete turd and the drivetrain will be fairly reliable going forward. After the drivetrain upgrade, I think I'm just going to run it as is for a while.
> 
> What is everyone else's plan for these bikes? I'm interested in what tires will fit...hopefully Bud and Lou are friends with the frame!


I'm probably going to ride this as is for a while (after a quick tear down to make sure everything is greased up and ready to go). After that I might look for some lighter tires. I'm definitely going to add some serious lights for the winter riding season.

This is my first fat bike, and waiting a few more weeks (my ship date is on the 15th) is going to be tough!


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

I'll go tubeless or use lighter tubes. I'll probably add On One Floaters after a bit, as well as some grips. I may go 1x with a thumbie or Gripshift. Definitely adding a flask cage. I don't see investing too much money on this bike. I'll use take-offs from other bikes. If I like fat biking, I'll upgrade bikes later and sell off the Moto


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

wookie said:


> I'll go tubeless or use lighter tubes. I'll probably add On One Floaters after a bit, as well as some grips. I may go 1x with a thumbie or Gripshift. Definitely adding a flask cage. I don't see investing too much money on this bike. I'll use take-offs from other bikes. If I like fat biking, I'll upgrade bikes later and sell off the Moto


I'm looking to upgrade the tires as well. I do not know much about fat bike tires.

Are the On One floaters a good budget tire ?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2


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## Apexrider (Dec 30, 2010)

epg0 said:


> I'm looking to upgrade the tires as well. I do not know much about fat bike tires.
> 
> Are the On One floaters a good budget tire ?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2


$130 shipped for 2 with pretty good reviews here and elsewhere. I'm skeptical about the snow capability of the Vee Mission tires that are spec'd on these MB FB4s. Maybe a good summer dirt/cruiser tire.

On-One Floater Fat Tyre / 4.0 inch / 120 TPI / Folding / Black


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

*Re:Upgrades*

I think I'll just do an assessment of the bike when it arrives, and I put it together. Things I can see upgrading are, pedals, grips, seat, tubes. I may pick up a set of Floaters if these Vee tires are not enough for snow riding.


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## Icey101 (Jan 15, 2012)

As of right now, mine will be receiving take off parts from other bikes. SLX drivetrain (still not sure 1x9 or 2x9), grips, seat...and see from there.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

At first, i'm not going to change much. I will add some HOPE parts to give it some bling. the normal things. seat clamp, spacer rings and such. Maybe the tubes, as for the tires being good in the winter...

I ridden a normal 26er & two 29ers with stock tires. They went fine so it stands to reason. These should be better those just off the fact they are much wider and run with less pressure

I'm sure there are betters tires but, they should be fine. I wish they were lighter tho.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

I received my tracking number for a 17” Elite today….Now I guess I just wait. Don’t care to much for the 3x9 can’t see myself ever using the 44 ring, it will most likely end up as a 1x9 or maybe 2x9 with a little nicer RD depending on what I can dig out the bike parts bin. Once I decide on color scheme I’ll replace the rim tape, grips and small parts here and there.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

GoPlayOutside said:


> I received my tracking number for a 17" Elite today&#8230;.Now I guess I just wait. Don't care to much for the 3x9 can't see myself ever using the 44 ring, it will most likely end up as a 1x9 or maybe 2x9 with a little nicer RD depending on what I can dig out the bike parts bin. Once I decide on color scheme I'll replace the rim tape, grips and small parts here and there.


Keep the 2 up front... you're going to want them because you want as small a gear as you can get for your granny, but also a bigger gear for the fast stuff. I don't know why they spec'd 3 up either... weird. But good place to put a bash.


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

I wish I had seen this thread 2 weeks ago. 

If anyone wants to cancel their order for a large (any model) I will gladly take their spot. 

Espen, thanks so much for all your valuable input, I hope you sell out of the bikes in Norway. 

p.s. Nakamura branded bikes used to sell through a sporting goods chain called SportChek here in Canada, is it the same?


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## Vandy (Aug 25, 2013)

When these arrive, I'd love to hear some feedback. I'm 5'7" and eyeballing the 15". I may just save up and get something from my LBS next year, but if these are pretty good, I'm interested. I like to support my LBS, but I also know they'll likely make more money on upgrades/accessories than they would a new Mukluk, so they win either way.


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

I'm about your same height and have a green 15" on the way. Looking at the top tube length, I think the small frames will feel more like a medium...just have more standover clearance for the times you want to stop while riding through 3' of powder!

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I just got the email requesting payment for what I presume is the second shipment (first week of November). Decision time. Has anyone got their bike yet? Any comments?


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

No bikes on hand yet. They may ship this week if BD hits the Oct8-15 range listed on the site. So, maybe we will hear of shipping starting tomorrow if were lucky.


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## waterboy179 (Sep 16, 2011)

This is my first new bike purchase, and it's been hard waiting. I've got UPS set up to text me with any updates. I hope everything is on track to ship this week and no shipping issues.


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

I still have not told the wife, I told her "I found a bike I really like and I am going to get it" and she said "yeah, okay whatever" and went to bed. I have only been married a couple of months. That was her saying it's okay right?


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

I'd wait until you receive tracking info. Just to play it safe .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

yellowzx said:


> I still have not told the wife, I told her "I found a bike I really like and I am going to get it" and she said "yeah, okay whatever" and went to bed. I have only been married a couple of months. That was her saying it's okay right?


That's funny!

Good luck with that.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

yellowzx said:


> I still have not told the wife, I told her "I found a bike I really like and I am going to get it" and she said "yeah, okay whatever" and went to bed. I have only been married a couple of months. That was her saying it's okay right?


I've been married over 25 years, and that is exactly what it does not mean, but you can pull the "but you said it was ok" once.


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## manfromwillow (Sep 15, 2012)

My (future) wife gave up. I have been taking about fat bikes for the last 3 or so years... when I told her a cheaper option was available she only said I had to sell one of my other bikes. ... that only took 6 hours on Craigslist! She isn't nearly as excited as I am about the thought of another bike in shed, but I had permission!


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## I like bicycles. (Sep 19, 2013)

I preordered the $695 model. I'll be sure to post a review of the bike when I get it in the mail...RIGHT after I convert it to tubeless!


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Just posted on the BikesDirect Facebook Page
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151967394654368.1073741825.122199864367&type=3


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

Nice, I can't wait! It sounds like they might even ship ahead of schedule for those of us who got 8/15 shipping dates (it says shipping updates in next 48 hours).



Kawidan said:


> Just posted on the BikesDirect Facebook Page
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151967394654368.1073741825.122199864367&type=3


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

randomsample said:


> Nice, I can't wait! It sounds like they might even ship ahead of schedule for those of us who got 8/15 shipping dates (it says shipping updates in next 48 hours).


There is a pic of my 17" elite in the box. I hope they seal it back up good! My shipping dates are for today on the two bikes I ordered so we will see how soon they update the tracking.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

I sure hope they start shipping today or tomorrow.. I'm taking some me time off from work next week... wife at work, kids in schools and am planning on doing as much MTB'n as possible.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

My On-One Floaters showed up today. I have those and a Specialized Format SL Ti saddle as the first parts to swap. I will weigh all parts for comparisons to document any weight changes for reference.

I also have Bar-Mitts once Winter is in full swing.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Swerny said:


> Espen, thanks so much for all your valuable input, I hope you sell out of the bikes in Norway.
> p.s. Nakamura branded bikes used to sell through a sporting goods chain called SportChek here in Canada, is it the same?


Same brand, different bikes. Intersport International (based in Switzerland) bought the rights to the Nakamura brand from Intersport Canada back in the 90's.
We are basically sold out now, so that was approx. 800 Mk2 fatbikes sold in a few weeks, into a population of approx. 4 million, and we could have sold twice that amount easily. Norway is the new fatbike hotspot.


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

Mine shipped today and it will be here in Colorado on Thursday! I wasn't expecting it that soon.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Kawidan said:


> Just posted on the BikesDirect Facebook Page
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151967394654368.1073741825.122199864367&type=3


Awesome!

Thanks for the update.


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

Venturewest said:


> Mine shipped today and it will be here in Colorado on Thursday! I wasn't expecting it that soon.


Mine is now marked for delivery on Friday - Woooo!


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

randomsample said:


> Mine is now marked for delivery on Friday - Woooo!


Ditto! I ordered very early, and I'm in UT.


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

Mine will be here Thursday. I wont be around for delivery to sign. I guess I'll be getting it Friday.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk now Free


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

epg0 said:


> Mine will be here Thursday. I wont be around for delivery to sign. I guess I'll be getting it Friday.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk now Free


Have a neighbor sign for it or leave a note. The UPS guy might leave it at your back door.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Scheduled for Friday delivery (up to SW Montana).

Going to be a GREAT weekend to build and play


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Mine is scheduled for Friday... Just in time for the weekend


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

Might have to play hooky from work on Friday!


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## ham_bone (Sep 27, 2013)

Solo-Rider said:


> Have a neighbor sign for it or leave a note. The UPS guy might leave it at your back door.


I just tape a note to the door stating that I'm expecting a UPS shipment on the date, sign it, and they will usually leave the package. You can even write something like "please leave it in the garage" or whatever. My UPS guy here in Montana puts the package anywhere I ask.


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

Those UPS guys are going to be wishing the 120 tpi tires were still on those bikes!


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

lol Venture


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## waterboy179 (Sep 16, 2011)

I'm in Missouri and scheduled for delivery on Thursday. I wish it was being shipped FedEx so I could have it dropped off at a FedEx store. UPS won't let me change the delivery despite what "my UPS "promises.


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

After the selling out of the original shipment, I got on the waitlist for the next round. Yesterday, they sent a PayPal request, and said the next round would ship the first week of November. I paid, and should have a 19" Elite, black, coming my way.  Now, I wait.

PS: I, too, would like to thank Espen. He has been very helpful, and represents Nakamura/Diamant very well! I may have never heard of their brand, but now I have a pretty good opinion of them! Too bad they only sell in Norway, I would consider ordering things from them if possible.


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

waterboy179 said:


> I'm in Missouri and scheduled for delivery on Thursday. I wish it was being shipped FedEx so I could have it dropped off at a FedEx store. UPS won't let me change the delivery despite what "my UPS "promises.


Yea 'ups my choice ' won't work for me either.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk now Free


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

SocratesDiedTrolling said:


> PS: I, too, would like to thank Espen. He has been very helpful, and represents Nakamura/Diamant very well! I may have never heard of their brand, but now I have a pretty good opinion of them! Too bad they only sell in Norway, I would consider ordering things from them if possible.


Agreed. I wish all Mfgrs were this helpful. Especially in this case since he isn't getting anything as a result of his efforts. Best in class!

It would be cool for them to setup US distribution so we could get access to their higher end bikes too. Weights for their Mk3/4 bikes sound great.


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## I like bicycles. (Sep 19, 2013)

According to UPS's tracker, my package only weighs 30.0 lbs.

Is this the real life??!


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

I like bicycles. said:


> According to UPS's tracker, my package only weighs 30.0 lbs.
> 
> Is this the real life??!


When Mike called to explain the tire switch he said these package weights were marked wrong and he got screwed on shipping.

He said these boxes are huge.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk now Free


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

I like bicycles. said:


> Is this the real life??!


no.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Mine shipped out too, getting it Monday. 

I really wanted it Friday to play with over the weekend :cryin:


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## russ3706 (Feb 15, 2007)

Mine has arrived. Will try and post pics at lunch...


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## russ3706 (Feb 15, 2007)

Pro (Blue) 19" no pedals, exactly as it comes out of the box weighs 15.83kg, or 34.89 lbs. on a park scale, way better than I expected!


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

What is the weight savings by going to On-One Floaters? I swear I saw it somewhere, but I can't find it right now. Thinking of ordering a pair ahead of my bike getting here (mid-Nov).

(edit): I think I got it. It looks like the Vee tires are 1810g a piece and the Floaters are 1498g, so going to two Floaters saves 1.38 lbs of rotating mass, seems like a bit of a no brainer.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

russ3706 said:


> Pro (Blue) 19" no pedals, exactly as it comes out of the box weighs 15.83kg, or 34.89 lbs. on a park scale, way better than I expected!


Under 35lbs even with the heavy tires is great!

What frame size?

Based on EspenW's info (further back in this thread), we should drop 1.5-2.0 lbs with the Floaters.


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

Chader09 said:


> Under 35lbs even with the heavy tires is great!
> 
> What frame size?
> 
> ...


if they're running the 120 tpi Vee Missions, the weight is likely around 1500 grams. the 1810 weight was for the 60 TPI versions, iirc.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

These are supposed to come with the 72tpi steel bead versions.

Found EspenW's post...
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/moto-bikes-direct-fatbikes-875900-11.html#post10705445

Vee page info.
VRB-321(Mission) - Vee Rubber| vehicle tires, motorcycle tires, bicycle tires , truck and bias tires,bike tires,fat bike

Claimed weight for Vee Rubber Mission 72tpi steel bead is 1930g (per Espen)
Claimed weight for On-One Floater 120tpi kevlar bead is 1498g (per On-One)

432g (0.95lbs) per tire savings,
864g (1.90 lbs) total savings!!!

Edit:
I have 4 Floaters and will have the 4 Missions. I will weigh all and report the real weights for each.

I plan to weight other components for reference since I will break it down a bit to verify assembly.


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## russ3706 (Feb 15, 2007)

Size is a 19". Total weight as it came out of the box with no pedals:

34.9 lbs (15.83kgs)

Seems the tires are the lighter version of the 72 TPI. I've ordered a set of On-Once Floaters, so I'll weigh those when I get them, but it's definitely not going to be as big of a weight savings as I had originally thought, which is great as I'll be more apt to use the Missions without as much hesitation for conditions that would favor them over the floaters.

I also purchased a set of Q-Tubes that were ~250 grams each. The stock Motobecane tubes were ~450 grams a piece, so I cut the weight down to a hair over 34 lbs right off the batt.

I have more photos that I'll try and post tonight of other items and their weights (rims, seat, post, etc.)

Didn't have time at lunch to really ride it other than the driveway test. But all indications are great so far! Very nice build quality. Only problem I've found is the front brake cable is too short for the way it is routed, so it rubs the headtube when turning, so I'll simply take the brake lever off and reposition the cable routing.

I'll have a better ride report soon.

*Let me know if there are any specific photos, measurements, or areas of the frame you would like photographed and I'll try my best to oblige.*


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## russ3706 (Feb 15, 2007)




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## JAGI410 (Apr 19, 2008)

Same weight as the 2014 Mukluk2.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

pretty!! Im jealous my man!

Now the bigger question

how does it ride?


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Interesting... less weight to be saved.

But OTOH, that means those aren't a true "penalty" like I was expecting. So I may actually use them and alternate between them and the Floaters as needed.

Great color, looks better than the BD pics.

Is yours a 19"?


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

How is the build quality and assembly?


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Now I really cant wait until Friday, I hope the Black Elite looks just as good as the Blue Pro does. The blue is sharp, it's making me second guess my choice... Do you think the front might hold a 4.7 or 4.8 tire? The rear looks pretty tight to fit anything larger than a 4.0


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Nice. Thanks for all the early info and pics Russ.

Edit:
Question, does the seatpost include height marks?
It almost looks like it based on the pic in front of the truck.

I plan to add a QR collar for some trials/tech riding and the marks would be great.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

So what is the rear hub width?


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## ham_bone (Sep 27, 2013)

bdundee said:


> So what is the rear hub width?


135mm front and rear (17.5 offset) I believe.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Wow, looks great. I am really psyched to get mine now! I guess I won't buy those Floaters just yet.


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

How's the build quality ?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk now Free


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## Icey101 (Jan 15, 2012)

my green one should be here tomorrow. It won't stay stock for long. I need to either slime tubes or go tubeless right off the bat.


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## fujiteam (Jan 12, 2009)

26" Mongoose Beast Oversized All Terrain Bike, 26" Mongoose Bike, Mongoose Mens Bike

Looks Like Walmart wants to steal some BD customers, the Red one is on sale.


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## russ3706 (Feb 15, 2007)

Chader09 said:


> Question, does the seatpost include height marks?
> It almost looks like it based on the pic in front of the truck.
> 
> I plan to add a QR collar for some trials/tech riding and the marks would be great.


Yes, the seatpost is marked in exactly 1 cm increments. They are not labeled with a number or measurement, just horizontal markings.



GoPlayOutside said:


> Do you think the front might hold a 4.7 or 4.8 tire? The rear looks pretty tight to fit anything larger than a 4.0


I would like to find out, but I just spent the money on a set of On-One Floaters, so a Bud/Lou attempt will have to wait. There are pics of someone in Europe that fit Bud/Lou to mild success (links below). There's right at about 1/2" of space in the tightest area of the fork and tire in the front, and is the same between the frame and rear tire. It's hard to fit a caliper there, but eyeballing it with a ruler looks at about 0.5" of space on the sides, and plenty more between the crown and top of the tire. The chain clearance when in the largest gear in the rear, and smallest chainring up front sits at 1/4" to 5/16" of clearance.

Google Translate
Lets See Some Pics Of The 190mm 9:ZERO:7.



bdundee said:


> So what is the rear hub width?


Spacing is 21.5mm according to the designer of the European frame that this is a direct port of. Hubs I've confirmed are 135mm. I don't know of a reliable way to measure the offset to confirm that, but I have complete confidence that EspenW knows what he is talking about.

Moto / bikes direct fatbikes! - Page 10


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## Apexrider (Dec 30, 2010)

Or you can pick up a Wal-goose for the low, low price of $340 on ebay. This person is a genius.

Fat Sand Tire Beach Cruiser Bicycle The Lunar Bi Rover | eBay


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## russ3706 (Feb 15, 2007)

The included tubes weighed ~450 grams each. I ordered Q-Tubes online. Interestingly I ordered what I thought were two different tubes, as during my research I found both a 26 x 2.4-2.7" and a 26 x 2.4-2.75" (the blue and red box) being referred to when people said they switched to Q-tubes. Turns out the two tubes seem to be the same, despite the different colored box and different listings online. One was 250 grams, the other 230 grams (keep in mind the Park Scale has a 10 gram resolution). They aired up just fine, no problems so far. I'll carry one of the original tubes as a spare just in case. Definitely the cheapest way to save about of pound of rotating weight.


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

Whats the easiest way to go tubeless on this setup?


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Weighed all my Floaters:

1410g, 1450g, 1453g, 1470g each = 1447g average
The delima... which ones to put on the GF's bike 

Based on russ' weights:
1540g, 1560g each = 1550g average

About 100g savings per tire, 200g (0.44lbs) total.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

epg0 said:


> Whats the easiest way to go tubeless on this setup?


Dude, search... there's many many threads on it.



GoPlayOutside said:


> Do you think the front might hold a 4.7 or 4.8 tire? The rear looks pretty tight to fit anything larger than a 4.0


You could always get a Carver carbon fork with all the money you saved if the stock one doesn't fit a 5".... probably save another pound too.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

ham_bone said:


> 135mm front and rear (17.5 offset) I believe.


21.5mm offset


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

The fork will clear a Bud (and Vee Snowshoe).
As linked above, one of our 230lb test riders fitted a Lou on the rear, and it did not rub on the stand, but did rub some while riding.
However, a customer who picked up a Lou where the outermost side knobs had been shaved somewhat (in an vain attempt at making them fit a 170mm 907 frame).
That setup cleared fine on his Mk2 Mammut.

That said, the Vee Snowshoe is designed specifically for this bike. It is a true 4.7 and it weighs (claimed) 1260g, so the 120tpi Snowshoe will save 400-500g over the 72tpi Missions. Bigger size, taller knobs and lower weight is a decent compromise in my book.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

We've had good luck with the Schwalbe 13F inner tubes. The lightest that has been on my scale was 180g and the heaviest 202g, so they will save 500g over the stock 450g tubes. Rated to 3.0 and have been tested in a Bud on 100mm rim w/o issues.

Tubeless will save even more. I made a 120g setup (including a cup of goo) this winter.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

To Russ-
Beautiful bike man.

All the guys who are getting this bike, I wanna wish you great success with them.
I'll get one sooner or later...and knowing my passion for bikes...it will be more sooner than later.
First I gotta get this foot business out of the way- (I lost my foot and am getting fitted up for a prosthetic). I was sure I'd never use clipless...now i'm finding I need them to keep my prosthetic on my pedals! LOL
mmmm.clipless with a prosthetic on a fatbike.
...Couldn't wish for more. LOL
Ride on dudes.
Z
...i'll be out there soon...I promise.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

zarr said:


> To Russ-
> Beautiful bike man.
> 
> All the guys who are getting this bike, I wanna wish you great success with them.
> ...


Sorry to hear about your foot. I know, how hard that must be for you. I had a lady friend over the summer loose her leg in a motorcycle accident.

Best wishes bro.


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

Espen W said:


> The fork will clear a Bud (and Vee Snowshoe).
> As linked above, one of our 230lb test riders fitted a Lou on the rear, and it did not rub on the stand, but did rub some while riding.
> However, a customer who picked up a Lou where the outermost side knobs had been shaved somewhat (in an vain attempt at making them fit a 170mm 907 frame).
> That setup cleared fine on his Mk2 Mammut.
> ...


That is some good info!

Do you have any photos of the Bud mounted up to the Mk2 fork?

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Vittetoe761 said:


> That is some good info!
> 
> Do you have any photos of the Bud mounted up to the Mk2 fork?


Sure do:








More pics and discussion:
Google Translate


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Solo-Rider said:


> Sorry to hear about your foot. I know, how hard that must be for you. I had a lady friend over the summer loose her leg in a motorcycle accident.
> 
> Best wishes bro.


I'll be OK...sorry to hear about your friend.
I'm already LMAO thinkin' about how funny I'm gonna look when I crash.LOL
I hope there isn't any kids around to see it...last time I crashed I laughed harder than the kids did. I was perfectly still...toe clipped in...and the bike just...toppled over. 
...Funny stuff.
I'll feel OK doin' it on a fatbike though...gotta get me one for sure.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

zarr said:


> First I gotta get this foot business out of the way- (I lost my foot and am getting fitted up for a prosthetic).
> ...i'll be out there soon...I promise.


No need to wait for the prosthetic! Check out fatbike owner Nothing's impossible. http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/fatbike-films-thread-533272-38.html#post10670827 He's got all sorts of pictures and videos if you search around.
Get out there and ride.


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## inediblebuffalo (Sep 22, 2013)

To those who have their bikes already, what kind of assembly is required? Is there anything in addition to the normal bikes direct steps on their site? I'm building mine at the UPS store and riding it home so I have to bring all the tools I'll need.


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## I like bicycles. (Sep 19, 2013)

inediblebuffalo said:


> To those who have their bikes already, what kind of assembly is required? Is there anything in addition to the normal bikes direct steps on their site? I'm building mine at the UPS store and riding it home so I have to bring all the tools I'll need.


This is my third bike from BD (as I am still waiting for mine to come in tomorrow).

- Tires are not fully inflated, so bring a presta valve pump.
- Handle bar needs mounted with allen wrench. **Usually** it will be 6mm if you can't bring the entire set.

The rest are mostly just quick release clamps. They have the crank, fork, brakes, brake lines, and all that installed already.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

How wide are the handlebars? The Pugs I have on loan has narrow bars and I realize how much I like wider bars (like the one on my RIP).

Never mind, I see it on the BD website, 740mm, plenty wide!


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

I, too, would like a really wide, albatross-esque bar. 740 seems pretty good, though. I'm just not good at imagining what 74cm looks like, I guess I should convert to inches.

So, what about grips? It's just got some cheap, foam jobs, right? I figure I'll upgrade those first off. I was thinking some of the green, Portland Design Works lock-ons would look nice with the other green accents. My only concern is the metal in the cold weather, but I suppose I'll be wearing gloves anyways. What do you guys think?


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Does anyone know I where I can get rim tape wide enough to fit the front rim, BD list the rim tape as 95mm. I really like the black and blue scheme used on the Diamant/Nakamura. The widest Surly seems to sell is 75mm which would be fine for the rear, but the way the holes are drilled the front rim I seriously doubt the 75mm would fit.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

The maker of the 95mm strips is confidential info (as other companies have a habit of copying us)... 
However, you could cut down two 75mm strips and run them side by side, attached with a strip of tape in the middle.

That said, we are experimenting with hyper light Tyvek rimstrips these days. Making the strips out of Tyvek maps.
Weighs around 15g vs. 85g for a 95mm strip. I have actually weighed some 95mm strips in at 120g a piece, so they can vary a lot between makers.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

GoPlayOutside said:


> Does anyone know I where I can get rim tape wide enough to fit the front rim, BD list the rim tape as 95mm. I really like the black and blue scheme used on the Diamant/Nakamura. The widest Surly seems to sell is 75mm which would be fine for the rear, but the way the holes are drilled the front rim I seriously doubt the 75mm would fit.


You can get lots of different colored tapes online... this is what I used and quality has been good. Just leave the backing on. My first round I took backing off and used a rubber tube... a couple popped through. Leaving backing on works great.

I got the 3" wide reflective stuff. Wheels glow when lights hit them  Incom Manufacturing

One 15' roll was enough for 2 wheels with extra.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

russ3706 said:


> The included tubes weighed ~450 grams each. I ordered Q-Tubes online. Interestingly I ordered what I thought were two different tubes, as during my research I found both a 26 x 2.4-2.7" and a 26 x 2.4-2.75" (the blue and red box) being referred to when people said they switched to Q-tubes. Turns out the two tubes seem to be the same, despite the different colored box and different listings online. One was 250 grams, the other 230 grams (keep in mind the Park Scale has a 10 gram resolution). They aired up just fine, no problems so far. I'll carry one of the original tubes as a spare just in case. Definitely the cheapest way to save about of pound of rotating weight.[/QUOTE
> 
> Thanks for the extra info and work.
> 
> ...


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Espen W said:


> The maker of the 95mm strips is confidential info (as other companies have a habit of copying us)...
> However, you could cut down two 75mm strips and run them side by side, attached with a strip of tape in the middle.
> 
> That said, we are experimenting with hyper light Tyvek rimstrips these days. Making the strips out of Tyvek maps.
> Weighs around 15g vs. 85g for a 95mm strip. I have actually weighed some 95mm strips in at 120g a piece, so they can vary a lot between makers.


Thanks, Using two 75mm rim strips or wide tape was plan B if the 95mm wasnt available.
Espen, I want to thank you for taking the time to answer our questions, I know you dont have to, but it shows how passionate you are about your work.


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## inediblebuffalo (Sep 22, 2013)

GoPlayOutside said:


> Espen, I want to thank you for taking the time to answer our questions, I know you dont have to, but it shows how passionate you are about your work.


 Ditto. Espen's updates and information have been the only things keeping me sane as I wait for my bike to arrive.


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

That's all I can do now, going for a quick test ride.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

I recieved my Elite and Comp. Already put the Elite together. Fit and finish look great. Rides nice! I thought these were supposed to have pedals, (even cheap ones). Mine didn't come with any. I weighed them in boxes and the elite was only a pound lighter. I will see when I actually get them out.


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

I did not get pedals either, just sent an email to BD


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## p_cycle (Jul 22, 2006)

pics people.


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

p_cycle said:


> pics people.


+1! Pics would be great! I've got an Elite coming in the second shipment, hopefully first week of November. I'd love some pics to vicariously tide me over until then.


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## Gibster (Jun 20, 2013)

The website has a few available now for immediate shipping. Also, some for shipping 1 November! Hurry.... http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/fat-bikes.htm

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 4


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## jhmeathead (Apr 15, 2013)

Anyone got a weight on the green one yet?


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## I like bicycles. (Sep 19, 2013)

I'll let you know in T minus 24 hours


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## jhmeathead (Apr 15, 2013)

Sweet. hopefully its decent. The dual hole look of the other one looks funny to me imo. At that price point that leaves alot of extra $$ for goodies. ( carver fork etc)


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## ham_bone (Sep 27, 2013)

yellowzx said:


> I did not get pedals either, just sent an email to BD


Geez! Another disappointing BD faux pas. I know they are budget bikes at a good price, but if they advertise that what you are buying comes with pedals, (and they do!) it's quite simple... the bike should arrive with pedals! WTF?


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## ham_bone (Sep 27, 2013)

inediblebuffalo said:


> To those who have their bikes already, what kind of assembly is required? Is there anything in addition to the normal bikes direct steps on their site? I'm building mine at the UPS store and riding it home so I have to bring all the tools I'll need.


Apparently you'll need to bring your own pedals, as counter to what BD specs and advertises on the bike that you ALREADY PAID FOR, they don't seem to include pedals.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

They will receive plenty of emails then. They notified us about the change in tires. There was no notification about lack of pedals, so I plan to get them. 

Looks like we get to test their customer service some more :/


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Well, I came home to a nice surprise. 

My new black beast was sitting in the living room. I do apologize for not having any photos to share. As it was starting to get dark, and flash photography won't do any justice to something this nice.

First, assembly...

Easy, easy, easy. All you need is a 4mm hex key. Everything was already attached to the handlebars. The saddle was attached to the post. Yes, it does have height makings.

The front wheel just needed to have the QR skewer slipped in and tightened to the fork.

Second, quality...

It's easy to see the components are gathered here to meet a price point. Brakes, Shifters and Derailleurs and such. This is just going by the brand names that are on the components alone. However, they do look like they're durable and should give good service to the average rider. All the FSA components seem vary nice and have a quality feel to them. Also, the saddle is racy and with the seat post attached, weigh next to nothing.

If your not crazy about the specs, upgrade to what you like. The frame is upgradeable worthy. All, the wields look extremely clean and showed good craftsmanship. No slop here. 

I will say this, for the purchase price. You are getting a lot of bike for dollar, one that can grow as you see fit or your budget will allow.

My view on the Fantom Elite Fatty. 

No, I didn't receive any pedals but, I'll live.


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## ham_bone (Sep 27, 2013)

Chader09 said:


> They will receive plenty of emails then. They notified us about the change in tires. There was no notification about lack of pedals, so I plan to get them.
> 
> Looks like we get to test their customer service some more :/


Whoa! Within the last hour or two BD has changed the reference to pedals on all price points from "platform" to "NA." Doesn't solve the issue though... I purchased a bike that was advertised would include pedals. I feel strongly that those of us who pre-ordered should really get what we paid for. While I imagine the pedals aren't spectacular, I was anticipating using them at times when I wanted platforms for riding in boots or whatever. Without including them, I have to pay more for that feature. Not to mention the tire bait and switch.


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## manfromwillow (Sep 15, 2012)

I ordered the flat black model I remember it spec'ed platform/clipless. I bought better pedals but still paid for bd's pedals. ... wonder if I will get them


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

The big picture here is this...

My opinion, the next closes bike in this category would cost me $600+ with not much of a better build. I think, I could survive without receiving some cheap pedals.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Shady move that they just changed the spec pages again. Worse yet that they seem to be doing this under the radar compared to how they handled the tires with the emails.

Maybe they didn't know about the lack of pedals until people started opening the boxes? But that is no excuse to just hide that and hope we don't contact them for what should have been included.

I still have the spec sheet printouts from the day I ordered mine that include the original tires and pedals. We already made a concession on the tire downgrade. It is an insult if they plan to brush this issue aside too.

We will see if this results in another call from them to "explain" the situation.


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

Chader09 said:


> Shady move that they just changed the spec pages again. Worse yet that they seem to be doing this under the radar compared to how they handled the tires with the emails.
> 
> Maybe they didn't know about the lack of pedals until people started opening the boxes? But that is no excuse to just hide that and hope we don't contact them for what should have been included.
> 
> ...


It is late in the day. Hopefully we will receive an email tomorrow explaining how they plan to handle the situation.


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## Icey101 (Jan 15, 2012)

green 17" weighs in at 36.25...with no pedals.


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

Icey101 said:


> green 17" weighs in at 36.25...with no pedals.


not too bad. i have never weighed my current bike so I plan to weigh them both when my bike comes in tomorrow and see how they compare.

Is the green as bright as it looks in the pics online?


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## Icey101 (Jan 15, 2012)

Yeah the green is just as bright, I ended up going with the lower end one...just because I wanted that green.


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## inediblebuffalo (Sep 22, 2013)

Solo-Rider said:


> First, assembly...
> 
> Easy, easy, easy. All you need is a 4mm hex key. Everything was already attached to the handlebars. The saddle was attached to the post. Yes, it does have height makings.
> 
> The front wheel just needed to have the QR skewer slipped in and tightened to the fork.


 Thanks for the info! Was going to bring my own pedals anyways.

Busing to the border, walking over, busing to the UPS store in Niagara Falls, building my bike and biking across the border 100km home. Gonna be a fun adventure.

Does anyone know if they record your vehicle of entry when you walk across? (Bike vs on foot). Don't want to raise any suspicion when I walk over and bike back 2 or 3 hours later.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

You guys can go to Walmart and probably get the same quality pedals you would have got anyway. Seriously... some of you sound actually worked up about this! The biggest complaint over the years has been "fat bikes are tooooo expensive". Now there is a kick ars deal available for you to get on one... at THREE price points... and yet the complainers find something to complain about.

You guys bought a bicycle online without seeing or riding it in person... these thing will happen when you go that route... so settle the frigg down and cut BD a break for the tiny profit margin they make to get you a fat bike!

Otherwise go buy one from your local bike shop and pay more... but get to actually put your hands on the bike you will be purchasing.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

I was considering one of these until i saw the 24.3" top tube length on the largest size. At 6'3" Id have to ues a 200 mm stem! Not sure how they can claim someone up to 6'4" can fit on this thing.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

duggus said:


> You guys can go to Walmart and probably get the same quality pedals you would have got anyway. Seriously... some of you sound actually worked up about this! The biggest complaint over the years has been "fat bikes are tooooo expensive". Now there is a kick ars deal available for you to get on one... at THREE price points... and yet the complainers find something to complain about.
> 
> You guys bought a bicycle online without seeing or riding it in person... these thing will happen when you go that route... so settle the frigg down and cut BD a break for the tiny profit margin they make to get you a fat bike!
> 
> Otherwise go buy one from your local bike shop and pay more... but get to actually put your hands on the bike you will be purchasing.


Yes, these are still the best price and component option at the moment. That's why I bought one in the first place.

Just because I never laid my hands on one before buying the bike doesn't make it acceptable to keep changing things. We ordered on pics and spec alone and the seller is obligated to fulfill that.

This is turning into an over-promise and under-deliver situation. The parts are far less the real issue for me than the business ethics at this point.

If my credit card company sent them the money but left it short by $20, you can be sure someone from BD would follow up on that. This is no different since we appear to have been shorted parts.

The original specs included pedals and that is what we all expected.

How are we being unreasonable to expect to receive each and every part we ordered?


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Basically... re-read my comment above. I see where you're coming from... but some crappy plastic pedals? Really? Like I said... most likely the same you would get from Walmart. Even if you got the elite you still probably saved $500 over what you would have had to pay had BD not come along with these for you. I'm guessing you guys got free shipping too?

You also do realize that these probably came into BD from overseas and went right out the door again to you... nice and quickly for you to get it and complain about not getting $10 pedals on a $500 savings.

Otherwise return it or sell to one of the other people that really wanted one and didn't get in on it. Then you can buy the next cheapest fat bike from On-One for an extra $400 out of your pocket.

CHILL


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## ham_bone (Sep 27, 2013)

duggus said:


> You guys can go to Walmart and probably get the same quality pedals you would have got anyway. Seriously... some of you sound actually worked up about this! The biggest complaint over the years has been "fat bikes are tooooo expensive". Now there is a kick ars deal available for you to get on one... at THREE price points... and yet the complainers find something to complain about.
> 
> You guys bought a bicycle online without seeing or riding it in person... these thing will happen when you go that route... so settle the frigg down and cut BD a break for the tiny profit margin they make to get you a fat bike!
> 
> Otherwise go buy one from your local bike shop and pay more... but get to actually put your hands on the bike you will be purchasing.


I think the "big picture" (solo_rider) here isn't the quality of the pedals or the quality of the deal... It isn't as though we agreed to buy a mystery bike! We purchased via the published specs. The issue is that all those who purchased under the advertised specs entered a contract with BD. BD isn't honoring the contract regarding the pedals or the tires. Yet, we all continue to honor our end, and honor our end weeks in advance by pre-paying. It just lacks integrity. And, it's more suspect after the tire thing. Even if the pedals are only worth ten bucks, I'd like to see my paypal account credited $10.


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

I would still have bought the bike sans pedals, but it sure would have been nice to know ahead of time so I could pick some up in advance.


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

randomsample said:


> I would still have bought the bike sans pedals, but it sure would have been nice to know ahead of time so I could pick some up in advance.


Agreed. Not a big deal though. Ill just swing by the LBS tomorrow and pick up some pedals.


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

Black 19inch









Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk now Free


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## waterboy179 (Sep 16, 2011)

Picked up my Green Comp at UPS today and the box barely fit in the back of my SUV. Overall very impressed with the build for the money (despite no pedals). I will say, those planning on taking off the Motobecane "sticker" are out of luck because it's in the clearcoat. I also found the Designed in USA, built in China sticker to be funny with the information Espen has provided. I have some unboxing videos I can put up if anyone is interested.


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

QUOTE=waterboy179;10738355]Picked up my Green Comp at UPS today and the box barely fit in the back of my SUV. Overall very impressed with the build for the money (despite no pedals). I will say, those planning on taking off the Motobecane "sticker" are out of luck because it's in the clearcoat. I also found the Designed in USA, built in China sticker to be funny with the information Espen has provided. I have some unboxing videos I can put up if anyone is interested.[/QUOTE]

I'd be happy just to see a real life pic of the green.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

randomsample said:


> I would still have bought the bike sans pedals, but it sure would have been nice to know ahead of time so I could pick some up in advance.


Exactly!


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## falkry05 (Nov 23, 2009)

As an owner of a bright orange Mukluk (my 2nd favorite bike color), I'm incredibly jealous of my friends who got the $700 neon green (favorite bike color). As an "early adopter" I have no big complaints though. I'm the sole reason that 5 people ordered these. 

We'll see who wins in the end. My thoughts are the BD people get a better ride per dollar. Maybe?


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## I like bicycles. (Sep 19, 2013)

I don't think you should have a problem with a bike. But some things you might want to consider that I forgot earlier:

LOTS of zip-ties holding the shipped product in place. Bring scissors or something.

Do you think UPS will let you ditch the box in one of their dumpsters? That might be more of a problem than taking the bike across borders.


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## RYNOFREERIDE (Feb 26, 2004)

I probably would be slightly irritated with the tire and pedal thing myself. Although, I wouldn't send one back at these prices. The pedals aren't a huge deal, but the tire thing is annoying. Main thing is a bunch of people are getting the fat bike experience on the trail. See you on the trail.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk now Free


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## waterboy179 (Sep 16, 2011)

Here's some pics of the Green Comp.


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## russ3706 (Feb 15, 2007)

I personally was very disappointed with the last minute tire swap, UNTIL I actually received the bike and weighed the tires. I was originally expecting the steel bead 72 TPI tires to be on the bike, which weigh 1930 grams. But instead they seem to be folding bead 72 TPI, and I weighed them at 1560 and 1540 grams respectively, which is a huge difference from 1930 grams and much closer to the original 120 TPI tire weight. Now the only difference is we got a 72 TPI tire rather than 120 TPI, but only a small weight gain. So I'm not all that upset about it now and would much rather take the change in TPI and have the bike in my hands now, rather than wait out a couple months of ambiguity on a delivery date. 


That green looks great! Digging the black also.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

LOL @ the EN safety sticker... suitable for jumps less than 61cm [24"] A

Agreed Russ, tires are a nice surprise compared to what we were expecting.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Sorry if I missed it earlier, seem to recall something about it... The green version vs the black, the front rim.... Is the black version wider? (Looking at the Picts with double cut outs a single on the green) 

Hoping to get to ride on a fattie this weekend and if I like it gonna try to save enough to pull the trigger on one.

Thx in advance.


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

I've been lurking around here for quite a while, but decided to join the discussion while I anxiously await the arrival of my bike tomorrow. I suppose sleeping would probably make it come faster. 
I jumped on this deal as soon as I heard about it because I've been trying to convince my wife that I NEED a fatbike for years, but this price point was more convincing. I haven't gotten it yet, but I can't imagine I'll be too put out by the lack of pedals considering the price. I honestly wondered if it was a typo, since the pictures don't show pedals. 
Also, for anyone who thinks they might be getting a partial refund, the FAQ provides your answer: "We attempt to be as accurate as possible and eliminate errors on the Site; however, we do not warrant that any product, service, description, photograph, pricing or other information is accurate, complete, reliable, current or error-free. In the event of an error, whether on the Site, in an order confirmation, in processing an order, delivering a product or service or otherwise, we reserve the right to correct such error and revise your order accordingly if necessary (including charging the correct price) or to cancel the order and refund any amount charged. Your sole remedy in the event of such error is to cancel your order and obtain a refund." 
So, if they really did intend to ship pedals with these, you might get some pedals in the mail, but if it was a typo or misinformation from the manufacturer, you can keep the bike as is or return it. Such is the case with online stores. Especially pre-order items. I can't count how many times I have bought things from many different vendors only to find that what I got was not quite what they said. 
As for me, I'm going to ride the heck out of this thing, and if I enjoy it enough I might get a nicer one down the road. Or maybe I'll decide it is good enough, but that doesn't sound like me.


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## Apexrider (Dec 30, 2010)

*FB4 Elite weights*

FWIW, Elite 19" *35 lb. 1 oz.* out of the box

Swapped out the tubes to Q-tubes superlight and tires to On-One Floaters:

*33 lb. 12 oz. 
* Good enough. Let's ride. Thanks Al.


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

Here are another couple of observations I have made since putting the bike together. I personally think the front rim looks too wide for the tire. The tire isn't rounded at all in the front. The rear profile looks much better in my uneducated opinion. Also, because of the narrower rim, the rear tire has a taller profile than the front. I didn't have a chance to measure by how much yet.
I would like to get the new Snowshoe Tire or another wider tire for the front ASAP.

Head Tube Angle. I am using an App on my Iphone for this, and I am getting 71.5 to maybe 72 degree HTA. My Tallboy measures 69.5 with a 120mm fork on the same App so I think it is pretty accurate. 72 degrees seems really steep.

The ride: This is really the first fatbike I have ridden so I am not sure what to expect. It seems to accelerate quickly. It feels solid and quiet. I am not sure what to think of the handling. I am so used to my Tallboy. It feels to me that once you turn very sharp at all, that the bike just grabs and almost yanks the bars that direction. If you turn 20 degrees, it's like it wants to turn 50 degrees. It is a strange feeling. I realize the tires are huge, but I wonder if the steep HTA, fork rake, and longer stem play a roll. 
Also, in tight turns I don't like how the front tires feels. I wonder if it is because the profile of the tire is so squared off. The sidewalls are basically straight and then there is a radius "top" instead of a nice rounded transition. It is like once you lean the bike far enough to transition to the sidewall, it just wants to go. 

This will take some getting used to, but overall I really think it is a quality bike.


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

Apexrider said:


> FWIW, Elite 19" *35 lb. 1 oz.* out of the box
> 
> Swapped out the tubes to Q-tubes superlight and tires to On-One Floaters:
> 
> ...


Nice. A few more upgrades and you are in Beargrease territory.
I am glad you had a good scale to throw the Elite on. I was eager to compare the 3 models.


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## Greenfin (Jun 13, 2011)

inediblebuffalo said:


> Thanks for the info! Was going to bring my own pedals anyways.
> 
> Busing to the border, walking over, busing to the UPS store in Niagara Falls, building my bike and biking across the border 100km home. Gonna be a fun adventure.
> 
> Does anyone know if they record your vehicle of entry when you walk across? (Bike vs on foot). Don't want to raise any suspicion when I walk over and bike back 2 or 3 hours later.


Sounds like a great adventure. On my maiden voyage my wife dropped me off and I got to ride home 9 miles during a snowstorm with 5" of fresh snow on the ground.

Go Bills


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

I am sure bd will take care of you and send over the missing pedals.. 

The complainers are the ones whom have not dealt wth bd before. In that case I understand their suspicion.

Don't worry just email and Matt will take care of you


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## trail_turkey (Oct 11, 2013)

Can anyone confirm the BB shell size? I assume its 100mm but I can't find specifics on the Samox crank.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

trail_turkey said:


> Can anyone confirm the BB shell size? I assume its 100mm but I can't find specifics on the Samox crank.


100mm


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## inediblebuffalo (Sep 22, 2013)

I like bicycles. said:


> I don't think you should have a problem with a bike. But some things you might want to consider that I forgot earlier:
> 
> LOTS of zip-ties holding the shipped product in place. Bring scissors or something.
> 
> Do you think UPS will let you ditch the box in one of their dumpsters? That might be more of a problem than taking the bike across borders.


Ah ok. I'm bringing my multi-tool as well as multi function bike tool. Hopefully that should be good.

No idea regarding the cardboard, didn't even think about that. I'll call them up and ask. Thanks.



Greenfin said:


> Sounds like a great adventure. On my maiden voyage my wife dropped me off and I got to ride home 9 miles during a snowstorm with 5" of fresh snow on the ground.
> 
> Go Bills


I thought it would be a nice way to start-off the many adventures I hope to have with this bike. I cannot wait for the snow to come this year!


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

epg0 said:


> Black 19inch
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks good! What is your height & inseam? How does the bike feel? Long? Cramped? Thanks in advance for your reply


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Apexrider said:


> FWIW, Elite 19" *35 lb. 1 oz.* out of the box
> 
> Swapped out the tubes to Q-tubes superlight and tires to On-One Floaters:
> 
> ...


Looks Good... My Elite will be here in a few hours.. I'm like a kid waiting for Santa in his brown truck to show up... From the posted pics the bright green parts, seat post clap, spacers and rim tape on the Elite doesnt look as bad as i thougt it would..., but I still have blue rim tape and a blue set post clap on its way along with some superlite Qtube. Are the decals clear coated on the black frame?


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

jeffw-13 said:


> Looks good! What is your height & inseam? How does the bike feel? Long? Cramped? Thanks in advance for your reply


I am right under 6"2' and wear 32-34 pants. No pedals yet, so its hard to get a great feeling. By just hoping on the seat, it feels like a good fit.


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## brokevw (Mar 31, 2010)

Anyone else notice the seatpost size is not 31.6 but 30.9?


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Interesting. I need to double check the seat tube OD then. I am ordering QR collars and have verify I get the correct size.


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

for the guys complaining about not getting pedals, if they're anything like other oem pedals, you're going to replace them anyway. The pedals that came on my specialized 29er didn't even last the first week.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

My 17" Pro's have landed. Too bad I have to work all day.

Assembly tonight and I will weigh parts for reference.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

*ApexRider's Elite*

More on the Elite- I'm helping ApexRider put his together.

*Some additional weights:*

Rear wheel sans tire/ tube- this is with the boat anchor of a cassette (an easy place to lose some additional weight): 5lbs 6oz








Front wheel sans tire/ tube: 4lbs 7oz








Stock VeeRubber Mission Tires: 1520 gr. (Both weighed exactly the same- I can't imagine the tread pattern on these tires being good for much of anything other than concrete/ commuting- maybe hard pack sand?)








Stock Tubes: 460 gr.








On-One Floaters: 1450 gr.








QTubes Superlight 26x2.4-2.75 tubes: 230 gr.








I worked in bike shops for over 10 years starting in the late 80's and have been consistently been working on all kinds of bikes since- some 20+ years overall and have probably changed thousands upon thousands of tires/ tubes. Getting tires on and off of this front rim ranks among the most difficult I've ever encountered- even compared to some of the old British standards (that were far from standardized). I HIGHLY recommend trying to set this front rim up tubeless. There is no deep center channel, and with the tight fit, any tire should air up/ seat pretty quickly/ easily as long as you do a good job sealing up over those holes. Trying to replace a tube on the trail (even worse, in the snow) would SUUUUUCK.









Brakes didn't need a bleed and just a quick adjustment on the calipers to have them dialed. Front rotor was a bit out of true, I assume from shipping, but an easy fix. Rear derailleur's limit screws were off, but nothing major and an easy/ quick fix.

That's it for now. Tonight, I'll be pulling the BB and headset to make sure they're well greased for inclement weather. I'll post again if there's anything pertinent that comes up.

Congratulations to everyone who pulled the trigger on these. You could put $500 into one of these bikes (carbon fork, lighter cassette...) and have something that competes nicely with a beargrease for still less than half the cost. Or just ride the crap out of them as they are


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

*Just got mine*

Just got mine (19" Pro)

Overall I'm impressed with the bike, but the assembly could use some work. The handlebars were attached to the headset backwards, which was thankfully an easy fix (on some other bikes I've owned that would have been a nightmare).

On the other hand I just noticed that the front tire is on backwards with respect to the disc brake. I wasn't planning on doing a tire change just yet, but there you have it.


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## Icey101 (Jan 15, 2012)

I bar thing took me a few minutes to figure out...also the shifter cables are route to the wrong sides of the headtube.


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## waterboy179 (Sep 16, 2011)

randomsample said:


> Just got mine (19" Pro)
> 
> Overall I'm impressed with the bike, but the assembly could use some work. The handlebars were attached to the headset backwards, which was thankfully an easy fix (on some other bikes I've owned that would have been a nightmare).
> 
> On the other hand I just noticed that the front tire is on backwards with respect to the disc brake. I wasn't planning on doing a tire change just yet, but there you have it.


I had the same issues my 17" Comp. I recorded the assembly of it but realized at the end I got the handlebars on correct but had the fork backwards.


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## ham_bone (Sep 27, 2013)

brokevw said:


> Anyone else notice the seatpost size is not 31.6 but 30.9?


Really?! That sucks... I purchased a Thomson set-back on Ebay (used) for this bike already. Now I'll have to deal with re-selling, re-purchasing. WTF Bikes direct? I'm trying to be patient with this deal but it seems like I did buy a mystery bike after all.


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## I like bicycles. (Sep 19, 2013)

I just got an email from BD. So for everyone bickering about the cheap pedals not coming with your already cheap bike, check out your mailbox:



> Hi, Thank you for ordering OR pre-ordering a New Motobecane FatBike.
> 
> These bikes arrived to us and we were under the impression the factory was including pedals because that's what the spec sheet said, however, there was an error and the pedals were not included.
> 
> ...


Bikes Direct has always impressed me with their customer service.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

*Lunch break*

Skipped home for a few to finish up ApexRider's build.

I highly recommend pulling apart the headsets and packing them with grease. They are not sealed bearings (another relatively cheap upgrade and possible weight savings area) and there was only a light coating of grease on them:









Surprisingly, there was grease on little areas where there often is not with bikes from BD and other online distributors:









The reach is adjustable on the brakes- they were set all the way out- unless you have a gorilla hands, you'll likely want to bring the reach in a bit:









I didn't take pictures, but we also pulled the BB. It's a sealed system, so this isn't nearly as important, but there was little to no grease on the threads of the cups. Also, these are not high-end bikes, and it's not likely to matter, but it's clear no parts of the frame (headset, bb shell, disc tabs) had been faced. Still, things are solid and running well. I believe ApexRider is out for a shake down as I write this...


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## inediblebuffalo (Sep 22, 2013)

Thanks alshead! I would have missed a lot of that stuff.


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

I just received this from BD:




Hi, Thank you for ordering OR pre-ordering a New Motobecane FatBike. 

These bikes arrived to us and we were under the impression the factory was including pedals because that's what the spec sheet said, however, there was an error and the pedals were not included. 

Even though the price we are selling the FB4 models at is rather low; we still want you to receive pedals for the bike your ordered. We do not have hundreds of pairs of pedals laying around but we do have some and we are in the process of ordering more for you all. Many of you have several bikes at home and probably even several sets of pedals. If you do NOT want us to send you a set of ATB pedals, please reply to this email by Monday and say, "I do not need the pedals". Otherwise, we will ship you pedals as soon as we possibly can and there is no need for you to reply to this email. 

While we have your attention, we would love to see you all post pictures of you with your FatBike on our Facebook page or any other place you choose to post your pictures. We think you are so great and we truly appreciate your business! 


Thanks again 


Be Safe and Have Fun 
Order Processing Team at Bikes Direct


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

inediblebuffalo said:


> Thanks alshead! I would have missed a lot of that stuff.


My pleasure. If you've not put a bike together before, there are a few other points I'd share/ consider:

•*Your brake levers and shifters should be moved approximately 1" inboard from the grips- between .75-1.25 inches depending on what feels good to you. This will get the shifters out of your way and put the lever in the position where it is meant to be, assuming you pull primarily with your middle finger (index finger always wrapped on the grip).

• Most people also set their brake levers at a 30-45deg angle downwards (they come almost parallel to the ground, which is terribly uncomfortable).

•*A light layer of grease on your seat post is advised- and on the bolt of the seat clamp- especially since these bikes are likely to be wet a lot.

• The bike should have two washers zip-tied to the cranks- put those on when you put pedals on.

...I think that's it for now. Enjoy!


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Very cool, well handled by BD.


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

My Moto just arrived. It was packed quite well. I think it's a great $700.00 investment. I plan on taking it down to the frame and building it back up (no time right now). A few observations: the grips suck, the diameter of the post seems too small (did anybody get shims with their bike?), and the brakes seem low on fluid. The quality of the bike/components seem decent for the price. And the San Maonie (not making that up!) saddle has to go. Cheers!


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## ham_bone (Sep 27, 2013)

Chader09 said:


> Very cool, well handled by BD.


Agreed! That's more like it.

Now, can anybody confirm the seatpost size on the black one?

THX,

ham_bone


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## ham_bone (Sep 27, 2013)

wookie said:


> My Moto just arrived. It was packed quite well. I think it's a great $700.00 investment. I plan on taking it down to the frame and building it back up (no time right now). A few observations: the grips suck, the diameter of the post seems too small (did anybody get shims with their bike?), and the brakes seem low on fluid. The quality of the bike/components seem decent for the price. And the San Maonie (not making that up!) saddle has to go. Cheers!


No, wookie. It's actually "San Moanie." Ha! "rookie," er um, "wookie" mistake.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

alshead said:


> More on the Elite- I'm helping ApexRider put his together.
> 
> *Some additional weights:*
> 
> ...


I picked up some of these steel-core levers...maybe they'll help-I dunno.
Nashbar Steel Core Tire Levers - Normal Shipping Ground

Also got some of these big levers too.
Nashbar Large Tire Levers - Normal Shipping Ground

Hope they'll help someone...I haven't used mine yet- pricepoint.com sells Sette levers like these too. there's a couple more brands too on ebay.
Schwalbe makes a can of stuff that works like soapy water...can't recall the name of it off hand. I hope I can order my bike in the next wave BD sells.Hope they don't go up a whole heap.


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

Wonder if the Vee Snowshoes will be ready for the winter


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

I like the bike a lot so far, though it seems more comfortable on grass and rocks than on pavement (tires sound like an airplane when riding at speed on the street). One thing I noticed was that the chain is either too long, or there's not enough tension, or the hub has too much friction. The chain sags and bounces a lot when coasting fast, especially on the smaller rings.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

That sounds like freehub stiction. Should loosen up with use. 

Check your big-big gearing combo and verify der tension.


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Vittetoe761 said:


> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


Rollin.
Nice. That's the one I wantto get soon. I'm diggin' it strongside.


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

Couple things from my shakedown ride on my 15" comp...

The front brake caliper hits the spokes when turning to the right. Espen mentioned this earlier in the thread and said all you have to do is shim the rotor out a little bit.

The stock drivetrain works surprisingly well. I had to do a little fiddling with it, but it works great in every gear in the cassette except the second biggest.

And finally...this thing is awesome! Can't wait to fiddle around with some mods and make it even better!

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

*Head Tube Angle*

I measured the hta
at 71.5, maybe 72 degrees. According to Espen's geometry chart it should be 69.5. I will be really dissapointed if the angle is close to what I measured. My method is far from perfect, but side by side with my 69.5 degree Tallboy this is much steeper. I used an angle finding app.


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

My comp came in as well today. Got it assembled with no issues. Mid Atlantic is kinda have a mini monsoon at the moment so I only got about 10min of riding in but that was enough to test the basics. Cant get it to shift onto the 44t crank. Played with adjustments for about 20min and still no luck. It will shift fine when on the stand but stops working when im riding it. Rear break is kinda spongy and pulls all the way back to the grip. Thinking it needs to be bleed but i dont have the stuff to bleed it at home so I may have to the let LBS do that one for me. 17" Comp weighed in at about 36.4ish lbs on a bathroom scale. Weighed my Walgoose that ive been riding for the past 6ish years while I was at it. 34.2 lbs for the walgoose so at least the new bike isnt really a weight difference for me. Ride was a little bit rough during the quick trip i took. Thinking I need to play with tire pressure some as there was very little squish to the tires out of the box. Handling is def different. Low speed balance is def awesome but i need to get used to the pull back from the front tire when turning at higher speeds. I am def very happy with my purchase. Cant remember the last time i had a giant smile on my face riding around in 60 degree rainy weather. Got a few more things to pick up for it this weekend and then I will try to get some pics posted and hopefully this damn rain will stop so I can get some riding in.


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## sbsbiker (Dec 1, 2007)

alshead said:


> More on the Elite- I'm helping ApexRider put his together.
> 
> *Some additional weights:*
> 
> ...


Alshead, what's up with that old Burton snowboard?


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

Oh, and the GF's kids have decided that I need to get a GraveDigger sticker to put on it


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

ham_bone said:


> Now, can anybody confirm the seatpost size on the black one?


The marking on the seatpost of my Elite says 30.9. I don't have a caliper, but by measuring the circumference and dividing by pi, that seems very close to the correct diameter. It is a FSA SL-280, which appears to come in 27.2, 30.9 or 31.6 diameter. Easy mistake, I guess? 
Other than that, has anyone else noticed the handlebars are ridiculously wide? I didn't really think much about it until I tried to carry the assembled bike up my stairs and I realized that 740mm is longer than the outer diameter of the tires! Maybe I've just been hiding under a rock for too long, but the bars on my MTB are 5" narrower. 
I think that I will be replacing the seat (this one says nothing but "Velo"), handlebars and grips very soon. I also have some lighter tubes on order, and we'll see about the tires come winter. As it is, though, this is a very good bike for the money. I managed to take one loop around the trails near my house before closing time, and it was quite enjoyable. Seems like a solid build, and at 5'11" I'm glad I got the 19" frame. It has a taller standover than my 26" MTB which is just fine, and the reach is nearly identical. It feels very comfortable.


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## I like bicycles. (Sep 19, 2013)

Vittetoe761 said:


> The front brake caliper hits the spokes when turning to the right. Espen mentioned this earlier in the thread and said all you have to do is shim the rotor out a little bit.


I had the same issue with my 17" Comp. The true is a bit off.

Other than that, somebody screwed up with running the shifters and brake levers. They were twisted fierce, and I need to take them off and run them myself, but the handlebars need some lubricant to get off, which I'll get to at a later date.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

jkbike said:


> Other than that, has anyone else noticed the handlebars are ridiculously wide? I didn't really think much about it until I tried to carry the assembled bike up my stairs and I realized that 740mm is longer than the outer diameter of the tires! Maybe I've just been hiding under a rock for too long, but the bars on my MTB are 5" narrower.


Its a common thing with fat bikes and most new FS trail bikes are going wider. I put 780 bars on my moonlander. The wider bars help with leverage to wrestle the big tires around taking into consideration you actually use them where they were built for - mud, sand, and snow.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

I received my Fantom FB4 Elite yesterday. I'm new to fatbikes, but a long time cyclist. I was aware of the risks of BD and mail order (though have never ordered a BD or mail order bike before). I give BD kudos on a number of fronts:

- packing was excellent - really secure
- pre-assembly was reasonably well done - per other posters, the handlebars were inverted, but part of me thinks it was intentional to keep the stem from scratching the frame
- communication was really well done - followed the link to the tracking number, knew my wife missed the pickup, folllowed the link to redirect and picked it up at UPS. 
- fit and finish is pretty damn good. If I could rewind I'd probably do the comp - not sure the $200 upgrade really mattered much, but I liked the black on green...
- brakes, shifting - everything was pretty much perfect out of the box - shifts very clean, braking is amazing.

So - riding a fat bike. Wasn't really sure what to expect as I had not ridden one. Notable feelings: 

1) tire pressure it came with (~12 lbs?) was too high for my tastes. I lowered to about 6 lbs and now it rides like the bouncy, shock absorbing bike I wanted.
2) It doesn't "feel" heavy despite weighing approx 35.8 lbs on my bathroom scale. 
3) at 6 lbs pressure it floats over trail nuisances that annoy me on my cross bike - rocks, roots, twigs virtually disappear. I rolled over a 2" diameter branch and didn't even feel it. My bumpy trail ride now feels like a smooth cruise. It is sort of like a big old cadillac - you lose some sensitivity, but gain comfort
4) It keeps momentum: on loose gravel and grass it doesn't bog down like my cross bike
5) it handles well on the loose stuff - can take corners in gravel better than my cross bike
6) It oversteers - probably due to A) longer frame and B) low tire pressure and C) large wide front rim leaving a low pressure tire "square" it definitely pulls when you set it on edge. I suspect a snowshovel or Lou 4.7 or 4.8 tire would help. Its not a big deal though

Upgrades.... It is pretty complete. Like others though I ordered Q tubes because 1lb of rotational energy for a few bucks is worth it. I'm also probably going to get a pair of carbon bars - the 740MM bars seem absurdly wide to me and I can probably save almost a 1/2 lb for a pair of china carbons at $23 on ebay. Only other change I read about was the cassette - I'm not certain but it appears this cassette weighs in at about 450 grams, and could be replaced with a 260 gram cog for relatively low cost. 

Oh, one watch out... I'm 5'11 and I have the seat post about 1/4" past "max" and could probably use another 1/4 inch on the 17" bike - wish I had bought the 19" in hindsight. 

Hope that helps, and Oh, and many thanks to Espen W whose insider knowledge has been a pleasure to read.


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## russ3706 (Feb 15, 2007)

Finally got it out of the garage and into _one_ of its natural habitats.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

russ3706 said:


> Finally got it out of the garage and into _one_ of its natural habitats


Cool video!


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

johnkcoyle said:


> I received my Fantom FB4 Elite yesterday.


Thanks for the recap. I'm supposed to get my Elite in November. I'm glad I got the Large now, I'm on the borderline too, but with long legs. I have a longer post if I need it. Did we ever get confirmation on the seatpost diameter? Hopefully its 30.9.


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## The Third Bike (Oct 12, 2013)

First ever post (if done right it has a pic attached). I am wondering about the oversteer along with a couple of other folks. Seems more than it should be.... but this is my first fat bike, so I might be 'up in the night'. Nevertheless I would appreciate comments from anyone who figures out how to reduce oversteer on the bike.

I am no expert but I get the feeling the front tire is further forward decreasing the trail and making the bike want to climb/pull/oversteer into the corners or unlevel ground. With that thought I looked at some pictures on the internet and it seems the Moto front wheel axel is more forward than the bikes Espen W is building.... Might be nothing but wanted to hear if anyone had some insight.

Thanks again to Espen W - information has been top rate.

Cheers


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

ham_bone said:


> No, wookie. It's actually "San Moanie." Ha! "rookie," er um, "wookie" mistake.


Actually, we're both wrong. It's Sam Moanie


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

The oversteer you guys have been experiencing is likely the tires. The Vee missions are well known for wonky handling on the front.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

On the oversteer thing, I have very limited time on fatbikes, but I have a loaner Pugsley I have been using this week. I'm not sure I'd call it oversteer, but on the Pugs, I definitely feel like the wheel grabs more into turns and when you have it up to speed it resists handlebar input due to all that weight and the gyroscopic effect. The strange thing is that when you lean into the bike it turns really nicely. To me its about using that gyro to your benefit by leaning rather than fighting it with the handlebars. 

I don't think you can expect a fat bike to react the same as a skinny tired bike, there's way more weight in the wheels and way more traction too.


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## JAGI410 (Apr 19, 2008)

Are you sure you don't mean understeer? If these things really have oversteer problems, then I'm going to want one for drifting through the trees like a rally car.


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## The Third Bike (Oct 12, 2013)

I agree oversteer may not be the correct term.... the bike pulls into the turn or uphill on when on unlevel ground (side hilling). I hope it is the tire - has anyone else tried the bike with other front tires and improved handling characteristics?


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

Jisch said:


> Did we ever get confirmation on the seatpost diameter? Hopefully its 30.9.


As best I could, yes. 30.9 is one of the diameters listed for this model, and it is what is marked on the post. My best circumference measurement calculates to very close to 31mm diameter, so without someone with a caliper chiming in, that's the best you'll probably get.


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

The Third Bike said:


> the bike pulls into the turn or uphill on when on unlevel ground (side hilling).


Interesting. The way you describe it, that does sound like oversteer. I actually experienced understeer in that when going into turns at what seemed like an appropriate speed I had to slow down and correct to keep from going off the outside of the turn. This is my first fatbike, though, so I attributed it to the bike being bigger and heavier than what I'm used to. I did just go with the 12psi in my tires to experiment down to what feels good, though. I'll go with less next time.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Jisch said:


> Thanks for the recap. I'm supposed to get my Elite in November. I'm glad I got the Large now, I'm on the borderline too, but with long legs. I have a longer post if I need it. Did we ever get confirmation on the seatpost diameter? Hopefully its 30.9.


Definitely 30.9 x 350. Confirmed with caliper measurement.

I got the 17" (Medium). I'm 5'10"+ with long legs and short torso. The max mark leaves 100mm to the end of the post. At max extension on the post, I am 25-30mm short from my road bike extension.

I did a similar fit on my FS bike. With my short torso, I don't like the extra stretch in the top tube if I up-size to a 19". I think sizing for top tube is more important since you have a wider range of adjustment in the seat height.

I also like the extra standover height I get from the smaller frame. I will just get a 400mm post to gain some seat height and be right where I need to be for leg extension.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Oversteer: the bike turns more sharply than intended and could get into a spin (loop out).

Understeer: the bike does not turn enough and leaves the desired path (blow thru a turn).

Selfsteer: the handlebars and fork turn from tire friction with the ground when the bike is leaned or on unlevel ground. This is correct term for what people are experiencing.

The issue is apparently pronounced with the Mission tires. But I feel the core of the problem comes from the fact that the contact patch of the tire is so big, leaning the bike shifts this patch away from the center line of the fork rotation and pulls the bars in the direction of the lean. I suspect its a problem with fat tires in general, but some may suffer more than others.

This probably happens on all bikes, but the tires are so narrow that there is very little noticeable turning input from the tires since it is much closer to the fork rotation centerline.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Today was the first time I got to ride this bike. I have never ridden a fat bike before. On my way to the trail, I took the paved road. It was a fast down hill with a sharp left. I was going too fast to make the turn. I applied the brakes a noticed a little head shake.

However, this is a new style of bike for myself. So, I would think it would take a little time to get accustom to the bike's handling dynamics.


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

Is anyone experiencing the self steer on the on ones ?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk now Free


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I notice self-steer on the Pugsley I have, I think its the gyro with all that extra weight. As I said above, leaning rather than steering seems to be deal here. When you steer you are fighting the gyro, when you lean, it works with you. I have no idea if this is correct, but it seems to be what I am feeling when I ride the Pugs.


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## zcmack (Apr 19, 2012)

*15" comp*

This is my third bikesdirect bike (i bought a SSCX and a 29er from them previously) and as always the bike showed up in great condition and the remaining assembly was simple.

I'm 5'8" and have a long torso and short legs so the 15" fits me pretty well. I rode an XS mukluk for a weekend and I think it fits pretty comparably. The ride is similar as well, though on the motobecane I can get through all the gears. The mukluk had serious chainrub issues on the rear tire in certain gears (which have since been addressed i think, this was a 2011 blue). Not even minor adjustments to the drivetrain were necessary, which is always a plus!

I did notice the spokes pinging when turning sharply right. I will try to shim the rotor as previously suggested and follow up. The self-steer was perhaps a little more pronounced with these tires over the larry / endomorph on the mukluk but a lot of it is the gyro effect.

I snapped the faceplate of the stem on assembly because I'm an idiot and overtorqued. Thankfully I had a spare stem sitting around, a stubby, fat downhill stem that I think is an improvement over stock. The wide bars help steer but I think I'll definitely be changing them in the near future. I run a really narrow bar on the 29er so I think there is a middle ground to be achieved here.

The brakes on the comp model seem to be really crappy, though I haven't tried to adjust them yet. I have avid juicy 3's on my 29er and they are very powerful and have been rock solid for three years. Though I'm aware that they are stopping quite a bit more momentum, the tektro hydraulics don't stop me so much as just help me scrub off speed even at a full squeeze. If tweaking them doesn't help I'll likely replace them with BB7s as I plan to bikepack on this thing and the trailside repair-ability is appealing.

I only did about 10 miles on a mix of singletrack, gravel and road and I have to say I got exactly what I expected, which is a phenomenal deal for 700 bucks. I'm sure I'll dump more money into it to get it perfect, but I'd expect I'd do that with any other off the shelf bike as well. It was difficult to stomach spending 2k on a bike that would be living in the snow, sand and mud. At this price point, I won't mind replacing the bits and pieces as they wear, as they would on any other option as well.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

*His & Hers Fatties*

Got them both built and had a short test ride around the neighborhood.

The bikes are fun through small gravel pits and river rock beds. Self-steer on paved and concrete surfaces is very pronounced with these tires. Not bad at all on grass & dirt.

I need to get a 400mm post because I have the stock one maxed and still need 30mm more extension.

Under 35lbs with nearly stock build (seat the only change and is 50g lighter than stock). I just have a cheap spring scale, so I will have to hit the shop up for an accurate weight.

I have tires that will drop 200g and may go tubeless for even more weight loss. These are temporary pedals that are about 200g heavier than what I will have on shortly. Hopefully be under 33lbs with about $1250 invested.

I also got some more component weights I will post up shortly.

Now we just need some snow to put them to their best use.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

What's your inseam? and what size is the "his"?


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

I measured 34.45" [87.5cm] inseam in socks and 5'10" [154.5cm] tall.

Both bikes are the 17" medium size.

My Stumpy FSR trail bike has a 17.25" effective seat tube length and the 350mm post has the max height mark at 80mm. That is compared to the 100mm mark on the BD FSA post. Those differences let me get away with the 350mm post on the Stumpy. I just need a bit more and I should be where I want to be.

My GF is 5'8" with a long inseam too. I don't have her numbers, but I set her bike up about 40mm shorter than mine. That makes the 17" a perfect fit with about 10-15mm of post to spare before the max mark.

I could have made the 19" large work, but that would have required a shorter stem. I don't have any toe overlap and like the shorter front center on the 17" since I wanted the ability to ride techy stuff and do wheelies too.

I moved the seat about forward 12mm on both bikes. That and the 90mm stem give us both the bar to saddle reach that nearly matches our other dirt bikes.

The 740mm bars are the same width as my Echo trials bike. I don't mid it, but the are a tad wide for my GF. I may cut down her bars just a bit to get her more comfortable. I want to keep a decent width to control the tires, but she has a bad wrist angle with the current width.


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## fujiteam (Jan 12, 2009)

Chader09 said:


> I have tires that will drop 200g and may go tubeless for even more weight loss.


How do you plan to go tubeless? Also how much sealant are you expecting to put in? That could get the weight up pretty quick and really do you want to run lower pressure?

I have tubeless on my MTN wheels and have run tubeless cross before. I just wonder how worthwhile it would be. Am I missing other advantages? Aren't the rims wide enough so that pinch flats are unlikely to occur?


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## The Third Bike (Oct 12, 2013)

About 3 hours on mine today - the self steer is much reduced with increased air pressure... makes me think a different front tire might behave better. Braking downhill on off angle rock with low tire pressure is a bit of a handfull... It performed very well in all the soft terrain I could find. It is true about fat bike traction - takes a lot to make the rear tire spin!

Very satisfied with the bike for the price - don't hesitate if you are on the fence for the next order.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Chader09 said:


> I measured 34.45" [87.5cm] inseam in socks and 5'10" [154.5cm] tall.


Thanks! I'm getting a Large and have pretty much the same inseam. I have a 400mm Tompson post, but its a setback, so I'd rather not use that unless I have to.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

I can almost guarantee you the steering problem is the tires.

Those tires should not have been released IMO. THey are very bad in regards to self-steering. All fat tires will do that to an extent, but MUCH MUCH less that the Vees.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

*Wrong large chain ring on Elite*









I received my Elite yesterday but wasn't able to really start putting it togerther until today, so far I've been pretty impressed with bike for the $$$. I did notice the large chain ring isnt the nicer one pictured on the BD sitw and the pics of the Elites in this forum so for.. it's looks like the one on the Comp, has anyone else seen this. The whole pedal thing wasnt that of a big deal to me, but this bothers me since the Elite cost $200 more then than the Comp.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

fujiteam said:


> How do you plan to go tubeless? Also how much sealant are you expecting to put in? That could get the weight up pretty quick and really do you want to run lower pressure?
> 
> I have tubeless on my MTN wheels and have run tubeless cross before. I just wonder how worthwhile it would be. Am I missing other advantages? Aren't the rims wide enough so that pinch flats are unlikely to occur?


Thinking split tube method based on current research.

Pinching is a real problem with these. Low pressures combined with stretched tubes if you round the 26x2.3-2.7 Q-tubes to save weight. Do some searching and it seems to be fairly common.

Weight can be lighter or the same as a light tube setup depending on everything used. Sealant is usually 3 scoops of Stan's IIRC.

My main reason to run tubeless is to avoid flats. We have lots of goathead thorns in my area that can kill a tube. Any weight reduction would be based on the heavy 26x4.0 tubes and just icing on the cake for me.


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

Just curious as to what tire pressure everyone is running. I am currently running 9.5psi front and rear on my comp and it feels a little harsh and bouncy. Had it at 7psi for a little while and could def tell that it soften up the ride a good amount. Is 7psi too low to run all the time in regards to chances of pinching/flats?


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## I like bicycles. (Sep 19, 2013)

I pinch flat mine today. Stay away from 6psi unless you are tubeless


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

GoPlayOutside said:


> I did notice the large chain ring isnt the nicer one pictured on the BD sitw and the pics of the Elites in this forum so for.. it's looks like the one on the Comp, has anyone else seen this.


I got the one that is pictured on the site, so you might want to contact them about that. It may be a manufacturing error just on your bike.


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## Icey101 (Jan 15, 2012)

Ten mile ride down today. I noticed the weight of this bike pretty quick (its 7lbs more than my heaviest other bike), but once you get it rolling its like a steam roller. Few things I have learned so far, my tire pump doesnt indicate low enough. I hate the grips, but so far I am impressed with the rest of the bike. I got the cheap version with the plans to upgrade, I don't think this will be a huge rush though.

I am glad I bought the 17" frame, I am 5'8"...and the site recommend the small or medium for me. I would have hated the small I am sure.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

That green looks nice!


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

GoPlayOutside said:


> View attachment 838690
> 
> 
> I received my Elite yesterday but wasn't able to really start putting it togerther until today, so far I've been pretty impressed with bike for the $$$. I did notice the large chain ring isnt the nicer one pictured on the BD sitw and the pics of the Elites in this forum so for.. it's looks like the one on the Comp, has anyone else seen this. The whole pedal thing wasnt that of a big deal to me, but this bothers me since the Elite cost $200 more then than the Comp.


That sucks dude, I don't think they can do much. But, if they can't do anything for you and if you want that ring. Next week I'm going to order a bashguard for my elite and remove that ring. Most likely just toss it out anyway.

So, if you're still SOL...

Send me your address and when I get my bashguard, I will send that ring to you.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Solo-Rider said:


> That sucks dude, I don't think they can do much. But, if they can't do anything for you and if you want that ring. Next week I'm going to order a bashguard for my elite and remove that ring. Most likely just toss it out anyway.
> 
> So, if you're still SOL...
> 
> Send me your address and when I get my bashguard, I will send that ring to you.


Kudos to you man! That's awesome!

Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Solo-Rider said:


> That sucks dude, I don't think they can do much. But, if they can't do anything for you and if you want that ring. Next week I'm going to order a bashguard for my elite and remove that ring. Most likely just toss it out anyway.
> 
> So, if you're still SOL...
> 
> Send me your address and when I get my bashguard, I will send that ring to you.


Thanks for the offer, but to be honest I had planned on replacing the large ring with a bashguard before I even received the bike. I guess it's just the principle of it. Again thanks for the offer but it would probably just end up in my parts bin.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

I like bicycles. said:


> I pinch flat mine today. Stay away from 6psi unless you are tubeless
> 
> View attachment 838703
> View attachment 838704


dented rims and snake bites on your tires aren't more fun. at least with tubes, you're getting a warning. When you bottom out conventional suspension, typically there's no harm. When you bottom out tire suspension, damages ensue. I'm still amazed that this doesn't come up more often in conversations about riding fat bikes off snow. If you ride hard, you have to run high enough pressure (tubeless or not) to avoid damaging your bike. When I go ride in the mountains, that means a much harsher ride since 30mph downhills can really destroy a fat bike wheel with only 10psi.

The solution would be a technology that caused the spring rate of the tire to increase exponentially rather than linearly, but while ideas for this have been floated, it's always been really heavy.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Ok, those who have the elite, do you wish you would have gotten the comp any used the extra $ for upgrades? Or are you satisfied with your choice?
Same to the comp owners, wish you had upgraded?
Trying to decide myself and already know upgrades are needed..


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## jhmeathead (Apr 15, 2013)

How are the brakes on the comp? Total dog poop or livable?


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## Drevil (Dec 31, 2003)

PretendGentleman said:


> When I go ride in the mountains, that means a much harsher ride since 30mph downhills can really destroy a fat bike wheel with only 10psi.


Absolutely true, but how many others actually do this? I'm pretty sure I don't reach 30mph on my downhills...unless they're paved :thumbsup:


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## Icey101 (Jan 15, 2012)

I bought the Comp because I wanted green, I planned on upgrading it fairly quickly. But after riding it, I think I might hold off for a bit. Everything works better than I expected, once it wears in a bit we will see.


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## tjdog800 (Aug 3, 2012)

Chader09 said:


> Thinking split tube method based on current research.
> 
> Pinching is a real problem with these. Low pressures combined with stretched tubes if you round the 26x2.3-2.7 Q-tubes to save weight. Do some searching and it seems to be fairly common.
> 
> ...


Check out this thread... Lots of Fat Tubeless experience here...

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/tubeless-tuesday-827178-7.html

Personally, I think the "getto tubeless" aka "split tube" method is the easiest and best.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I have done ghetto tubeless on many non-fat bikes. In an earlier post someone mentioned the tires being extremely tight on these rims, if that's the case, it will be very hard to get them over the splayed out tube. I would love to hear more from someone who has done it. I will probably go that direction eventually as well (though I did order some Q-tubes for the first go-round). 

John


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Jisch said:


> I have done ghetto tubeless on many non-fat bikes. In an earlier post someone mentioned the tires being extremely tight on these rims, if that's the case, it will be very hard to get them over the splayed out tube. I would love to hear more from someone who has done it. I will probably go that direction eventually as well (though I did order some Q-tubes for the first go-round).
> 
> John


If they are that tight why would one need to use a split tube? Couldn't it just be taped with a thin tape?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

bdundee said:


> If they are that tight why would one need to use a split tube? Couldn't it just be taped with a thin tape?


Yeah, I've done the gorilla tape thing too - its less consistent than the tube method (in my experience), but it could be the way to go with tight fitting tires. Creating an airtight seal between the tape and the rim is tough, if any sealant gets under there it will loosen the tape and cause a leak.


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

I taped my rims with gorilla tape last night and threw in some Q tubes until I get time to do the tubeless set up. 

I dunno if I'm just that good at changing tires or something, but I didn't use tire levers at all...I actually thought they were easier to change than my 29er tires.

Also, the brakes on the comp model are definitely nothing to write home about. I will be upgrading to BB7's before to gets too terribly cold out.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Interesting on the tires/rims. Have to got back and find that other post. Hoping for better with the brakes on the Expert, but I have BB7s in my parts bin, just in case.


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

I stripped the Hulk bike this morning. 

I repacked the headset and greased all of the bits & pieces (including the BB). Everything was on very very tight, and there seemed to be thread lock on just about everything. I'd highly recommend repacking/greasing everything; you may have a hard time removing parts after the winter if you don't.

A few points of interest: The crankset/chainrings are very heavy (sorry, no scale). Nothing was faced, except the disc tabs (well, sorta). The paint seemed to chip kinda easily (could powder coat pretty cheap). It might be worth shooting some silicone in the void under the gusset (see picture).

The parts are low end, but everything seems pretty solid. If you choose to give yours an overhaul, it's pretty quick if you know what you're doing (no major issues). I especially liked the little cable clips. I have not,however, repacked the hubs yet. Has anybody else? 

Looking forward to taking it out tomorrow. Hopefully my Q-tubes show up tomorrow too


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Rcksqrl said:


> Ok, those who have the elite, do you wish you would have gotten the comp any used the extra $ for upgrades? Or are you satisfied with your choice?
> Same to the comp owners, wish you had upgraded?
> Trying to decide myself and already know upgrades are needed..


I'm good,

The upgrades over the comp in some ways are small but, do add up.

Wider Front Rim
Step up in RD and Shifters
Step up in Brakes
Step up in Cockpit, Seat post and Saddle.
And a nicer big ring on the cranks.

The only changes I'm going to do this season, are padels and a bashguard. Everything works well enough for me to try a get my money out of it. Then in the spring, do some bigger upgrades.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

*Elite vs. Comp*



Rcksqrl said:


> Ok, those who have the elite, do you wish you would have gotten the comp any used the extra $ for upgrades? Or are you satisfied with your choice?
> Same to the comp owners, wish you had upgraded?
> Trying to decide myself and already know upgrades are needed..


If I could start over, I'd PROBABLY get the comp vs. the elite. I think the components are slightly more heavy but in terms of percentages, miniscule and I'm sure it shifts just fine. I did not realize there was a difference in rim width for the comp vs. elite - is that true? - I can see it now in the pictures that the comp only has a one hole pattern in the front (like the rear) vs. my elite having a two hole pattern. Why does that matter? You can still put a 4.7" tire on correct?

I primarily made my decision based on the brakes. I couldn't find anything to suggest one way or the other that the Shimano version was better, but I assumed it was. IF the tektro's are OK, then if I could I would re-do and buy the comp, replace the tubes w/ Q tubes, buy some cheap carbon bars and seatpost and a vertu seat in green - see here Multi Color Comfortable Vertu Ccav s Cycling Bike Bicycle Hollow Out Seat Saddle | eBay

Then for $800 I have a lighter bike than the elite.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

One other thing - the "self steer" problem does not exist at 18 to 20lbs. I did my first road ride and pumped them up and the self steer problem went away. I do believe that it is related to the width of the front rim: with low pressure the tire becomes pretty "square" and pulls inward when you turn. It is not a problem for me - but I don't have any real technical riding around here.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Rcksqrl said:


> Ok, those who have the elite, do you wish you would have gotten the comp any used the extra $ for upgrades? Or are you satisfied with your choice?
> Same to the comp owners, wish you had upgraded?
> Trying to decide myself and already know upgrades are needed..


I'm happy with the Elite and the black looks sharp. I mainly picked the Elite because I liked the matte black finish over the green on the Comp. The component difference is small, but enough that I'm not planning on upgrading anything right away. I might have purchased the Comp if it came in a color liked and took the $200 difference and upgraded the RD and Shifters along with the seatpost and stem/handle bar.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

You guys won't notice self-steer if you actually use fat bikes where they were meant for. Just saying. Stop giving feedback from riding them on cement or hardpack dirt. Don't get a fatbike if that's what your going to use it for, because you're not using the correct tool for the job then.

I believe someone predicted last year that when fat bikes got mainstream or super cheap that there would be a flood of people getting them just because they are the new popular thing... and not understanding where to really use them... then giving a bunch of unfounded feedback and opinions about them. I think this has come true.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

*Running the Vee Misson rear wheel tire in other direction?*

Curious question, has anyone tried or thought about running the Vee Mission rear tire in the opposite direction for better traction?


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

duggus said:


> You guys won't notice self-steer if you actually use fat bikes where they were meant for. Just saying. Stop giving feedback from riding them on cement or hardpack dirt. Don't get a fatbike if that's what your going to use it for, because you're not using the correct tool for the job then.
> 
> I believe someone predicted last year that when fat bikes got mainstream or super cheap that there would be a flood of people getting them just because they are the new popular thing... and not understanding where to really use them... then giving a bunch of unfounded feedback and opinions about them. I think this has come true.


I chose to buy a fat bike because I could only afford to purchase 1 bike and I want to be able to ride where I want, when I want. I bought this to ride hard packed single track, rocky technical single track, downhill, beaches, snow, pavement and what ever else I can find to ride. I went with a fat bike over a 29er for the fact that it can ride whatever you want it to.

I believe that as these bikes become more mainstream we will see them becoming more of an all-mountain, all-around bike and less focused on being primarily snow and sand bikes. I see fat bikes as more of an evolution to mountain bikes rather than a bike for a niche set of riders.


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## jhmeathead (Apr 15, 2013)

duggus said:


> You guys won't notice self-steer if you actually use fat bikes where they were meant for. Just saying. Stop giving feedback from riding them on cement or hardpack dirt. Don't get a fatbike if that's what your going to use it for, because you're not using the correct tool for the job then.
> 
> I believe someone predicted last year that when fat bikes got mainstream or super cheap that there would be a flood of people getting them just because they are the new popular thing... and not understanding where to really use them... then giving a bunch of unfounded feedback and opinions about them. I think this has come true.


See the good thing about that is people will buy them, not like them and dump them off. I used to never find fat bikes on my local classifieds. Lately ive seen numerous "barely ridden" pugs pop up. Weither thats becuase people are dumping them for the latest n greatest or they dont like em i dunno. So maybe when i can afford one a deal will be out there for me


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## The Third Bike (Oct 12, 2013)

duggus said:


> You guys won't notice self-steer if you actually use fat bikes where they were meant for. Just saying. Stop giving feedback from riding them on cement or hardpack dirt. Don't get a fatbike if that's what your going to use it for, because you're not using the correct tool for the job then.
> 
> I believe someone predicted last year that when fat bikes got mainstream or super cheap that there would be a flood of people getting them just because they are the new popular thing... and not understanding where to really use them... then giving a bunch of unfounded feedback and opinions about them. I think this has come true.


I guess we will have to keep them until it snows then.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Once people get accustom to the handling dynamics. All, will be right with the world. 

For most of us, this is a big change for what we have become accustomed too. I do think that if we plan to make this style of bike our only bike. Then changing our tires for different environments may need to come in play. 

Like a smoothy for road and a knobbie for off road. Just like we do with any other bike. The key in the handling is in the tires.


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

The Comp model has a 100mm front rim...same width as the other models, it just has one set of 28mm holes instead of two sets of 32mm holes. I guess this makes it a little heavier, but my studies have shown that this fat bike don't give a sh!t !!


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Vittetoe761 said:


> The Comp model has a 100mm front rim...same width as the other models, it just has one set of 28mm holes instead of two sets of 32mm holes. I guess this makes it a little heavier, but my studies have shown that this fat bike don't give a sh!t !!


That's on me...

It's just an optical illusion.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

wookie said:


> I have not,however, repacked the hubs yet. Has anybody else?


I have not opened them up yet, but I am wondering if they are similar to the headset lube too?


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

Chader09 said:


> I have not opened them up yet, but I am wondering if they are similar to the headset lube too?


I pulled the front rotor off, and it was very difficult to remove the torque head screws. I used a hair dryer (per Espen W's instructions) which helped a little bit. I put the washers under the rotor also. I suspect there is very little grease in the hubs (feels dry). I can only find one 15mm cone wrench, so I will have to wait untill tomorrow to repack the hubs. I'm going to head over to Universal Cycles tomorrow to pick up a wrench and some bling. I'll post picks, unless someone else beats me to it. Cheers!


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## sbsbiker (Dec 1, 2007)

arock said:


> I chose to buy a fat bike because I could only afford to purchase 1 bike and I want to be able to ride where I want, when I want. I bought this to ride hard packed single track, rocky technical single track, downhill, beaches, snow, pavement and what ever else I can find to ride. I went with a fat bike over a 29er for the fact that it can ride whatever you want it to.
> 
> I believe that as these bikes become more mainstream we will see them becoming more of an all-mountain, all-around bike and less focused on being primarily snow and sand bikes. I see fat bikes as more of an evolution to mountain bikes rather than a bike for a niche set of riders.


These are great fun, and suited well to the conditions the big tires are designed for, but I doubt if "mainstream" use will ever happen. I've got one ordered, but can't see it ever taking the place of my 22# Moots Gristle. A fat bike can never be as fast and agile or take the big hits like various renditions of the modern mountain bike do.

Enjoy your fat bike, and the fun, but don't hold your breath on it becoming "mainstream". Which IMHO is good!


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

sbsbiker said:


> I've got one ordered, but can't see it ever taking the place of my 22# Moots Gristle.
> Enjoy your fat bike, and the fun, but don't hold your breath on it becoming "mainstream". Which IMHO is good!


Their site won't let me place an order unless its te 15" comp..... 
Sent an email as the site is not very clear... Shipment scheduled 11/3... Next will be feb... But can't actually put anything in the cart....

Maybe it's just me...

Anywho, jealous of ya all!! (And I agree, it won't be able to replace everything but its got the post apocalyptic thing going for it!!)

Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

duggus said:


> You guys won't notice self-steer if you actually use fat bikes where they were meant for. Just saying. Stop giving feedback from riding them on cement or hardpack dirt. Don't get a fatbike if that's what your going to use it for, because you're not using the correct tool for the job then.
> 
> I believe someone predicted last year that when fat bikes got mainstream or super cheap that there would be a flood of people getting them just because they are the new popular thing... and not understanding where to really use them... then giving a bunch of unfounded feedback and opinions about them. I think this has come true.


Or they can just switch over to better tires.

My Pugsley is my only mountain bike. I ride it year round, off road. It's tons of fun on hardpack singletrack, too. I don't need permission to, and neither does anyone else.

With that said, I haven't had problems with self steer running Nate and Larry tires, even at low pressures. Perhaps the Vee Rubber tires just have self steer issues. It's not the first time I've read about self steer with Vee Rubber tires.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I am a newbie to fat bikes, but have taken a Pugsley with Large Marge rims and Floaters for three rides. Its a 38lb bike, and I suspect its got heavy tubes in it. 

I definitely notice "self-steer" when I ride it on the dirt access road to get back to my car. Its only noticeable when you get the bike up to speed, its downhill back to the car, therefore I'm going faster in that direction. I attribute this to the gyro effect of the large mass of the tires and wheels spinning. 

I'll be interested to see if there is a similar or more intense feeling with the Vee Rubber tires. You have to expect some difference in how a bike with this much mass down there will behave versus a normal mountain bike, otherwise physics would be a very confused science. 

It is a weird feeling, but if you lean into the bike it will still respond easily to steering input, you just have to get that gyro working to your advantage. To me its an interesting aspect of these bikes, but nothing else. Something to note, not something to complain about.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

I'm thinking about going ahead and replacing the tires with something with better traction, REI is having there 20% off one item sell today so I’m thought about buying a pair of 45North Husker DU 26x4.0, there's an $80 difference for pair between the 120psi and 27psi. The 27psi weighs 1520 and 120psi 1240, that’s only about a .6lbs difference between each tire.. is it worth the extra $80. I’m new to the fat tire thing and the tires for these bikes can be expensive.. any input would be greatly appreciated


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2013)

sbsbiker said:


> These are great fun, and suited well to the conditions the big tires are designed for, but I doubt if "mainstream" use will ever happen. I've got one ordered, but can't see it ever taking the place of my 22# Moots Gristle. A fat bike can never be as fast and agile or take the big hits like various renditions of the modern mountain bike do.
> 
> Enjoy your fat bike, and the fun, but don't hold your breath on it becoming "mainstream". Which IMHO is good!


as with all things it's in the eye of the beholder...


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## tjdog800 (Aug 3, 2012)

GoPlayOutside said:


> I'm thinking about going ahead and replacing the tires with something with better traction, REI is having there 20% off one item sell today so I'm thought about buying a pair of 45North Husker DU 26x4.0, there's an $80 difference for pair between the 120psi and 27psi. The 27psi weighs 1520 and 120psi 1240, that's only about a .6lbs difference between each tire.. is it worth the extra $80. I'm new to the fat tire thing and the tires for these bikes can be expensive.. any input would be greatly appreciated


I think you mean "tpi" not "psi"... The 120tpi (threads per inch) is lighter and more supple than the 27tpi. That suppleness translates into better conformance of the tire when riding over trail junk and slightly better traction as a result. The lighter weight will get you rolling faster from a slow roll or stop.

If you are performance oriented, racing and/or pushing your rig it to the limit, the weight savings and traction improvement is worth the extra coin. Just ask any "weight-weenie" or racer.

However, if you are out there to get from point-A to point-B in no particular hurry and have a ton fun doing it, save your coin and buy more beer.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Received my 15" green one today. Went home on lunch and put it together. I have the spokes hitting the front caliper too, so I will need to shim out the caliper and rotor. I didn't have time to put pedals on it and take it for a spin. It seems like there will be a lot of seatpost showing when I ride it, I'm a long legged 5' 10". I didn't notice any min or max lines on the post, or any of the marks others were seeing. I was hoping the graduation lines would be there since this bike will be used by more than one rider. Overall the bike looks nice! I went back to work and immediately ordered some green Oury grips and a BBG bashguard for it. Now I needs me some green pedals.


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

69tr6r said:


> Received my 15" green one today. Went home on lunch and put it together. I have the spokes hitting the front caliper too, so I will need to shim out the caliper and rotor. I didn't have time to put pedals on it and take it for a spin. It seems like there will be a lot of seatpost showing when I ride it, I'm a long legged 5' 10". I didn't notice any min or max lines on the post, or any of the marks others were seeing. I was hoping the graduation lines would be there since this bike will be used by more than one rider. Overall the bike looks nice! I went back to work and immediately ordered some green Oury grips and a BBG bashguard for it. Now I needs me some green pedals.


I was having the spoke/caliper issue as well after about 10 min of riding. Pulled the front wheel off to pull disc screws and put washers behind them and realized that I didn't have the tools i needed. Put the wheel back on and re-aligned the caliper and now it doesn't do it anymore. I had aligned the caliper the first time and the disc wasn't rubbing at all so I'm not sure what changed.


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

I repacked the hubs today (see my crappy pictures). There was some grease (not horribly ungreased, but the hubs are certainly smoother now). I also changed out the green headset spacer with some black carbon ones (exact same size spacers). There is about 1/8" gap from the steering tube to the top cap (could use less spacers)-FWIW.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

69tr6r said:


> Received my 15" green one today. It seems like there will be a lot of seatpost showing when I ride it, I'm a long legged 5' 10". I didn't notice any min or max lines on the post, or any of the marks others were seeing. I was hoping the graduation lines would be there since this bike will be used by more than one rider.


Why did you get a 15"? Is your other rider shorter?

The sizing guidelines on the BD site had 5'8" as the split between 15" & 17".

I'm 5'10" with a long inseam, probably like you. I got the 17" and still need a longer post than the stock 350mm. I'm about 25-30mm short at the max line for the post on the Pro model.

Based on inseam, I need the 19", but it would be too long for my shorter torso. So the 17" and with a longer post to match the fit I like.

I am guessing you will need a longer post and may still be short on extension.


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

GoPlayOutside said:


> Curious question, has anyone tried or thought about running the Vee Mission rear tire in the opposite direction for better traction?


I did that. Traction was decent in most conditions except mud.


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## zcmack (Apr 19, 2012)

Put another 10 miles on today. I'm loving the ride now that I've swapped off the terrible, terrible grips for some OURYs.

I expected to buy new tires for snow but I might even consider something else for the rear for singletrack as well. A few times when cornering sharply I've slid out the back wheel and wiped out; all in places where my 29er with Nanoraptors (nothing special) hasn't had issues. Then again, it could definitely be my form!

That said, one of those was a pretty decent wipeout and now my front caliper is pinging off one pair of spokes on every rotation... When I turn right it is hitting multiple pairs. I haven't shimmed anything yet because I can't find Espen's post where he recommends doing so... can anyone provide some guidance? Previous posts mentioned putting washers behind the rotor, but the caliper is what is making contact, not the rotor. Am I spacing the caliper further rearward? Should I just take a file to the caliper to accelerate the "wait time" to get nicer brakes?


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## zcmack (Apr 19, 2012)

i forgot a pic from my ride. here you go:


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

The calipers are centered on the disc, so if you put washers behind the disc and reset the caliper, the caliper will move out away from the hub and hence the spokes.


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## falkry05 (Nov 23, 2009)

Espen recommended 0.8mm washers on each rotor mounting bolt, placed between the hub and the rotor. You'll need to move the caliper away from the wheel to adjust for the newly added shims. From what I've experienced, you only need these on the front wheel.


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## zcmack (Apr 19, 2012)

falkry05 said:


> Espen recommended 0.8mm washers on each rotor mounting bolt, placed between the hub and the rotor. You'll need to move the caliper away from the wheel to adjust for the newly added shims. From what I've experienced, you only need these on the front wheel.


thank you for the details. i guess i'm still having trouble understanding how to move the caliper itself away from the spokes. i understand the brake pads will adjust to the position of the rotor, but what about the brake caliper housing? if i were to add washers to where it attaches to the bracket, it would move toward the rear of the bike. the bracket itself sits flush on the wheel side of the fork, with a small washer on the outside. i could move the bracket to the outside of the tabs but would probably position the caliper pretty far out, don't you think?










just for context: you can see a small mark below where the spokes cross where my spoke is rubbing the housing.


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## falkry05 (Nov 23, 2009)

Every caliper I've seen has some sort of lateral movement adjustment. The screws you'll need to loosen to move the caliper look like they are located by the "130505 44-001S" white text in that picture. Should be able to slide the caliper towards/away from the wheel once you loosen two of those bolts.


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

You could always look up "mountain bike brake caliper alignment" on YouTube. Thats how I learned to do it


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

Yup...loosen the two bolts that are parallel with the rotor (same ones falkry pointed out) and adjust the caliper position as needed after shimming the rotor.

I'm sure you can find a YouTube video on it if it still doesn't make sense...it is a pretty common procedure because not all hubs have the disc mounts the same distance from their center


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## chuckhead (Oct 13, 2013)

I have searched but I can not find on how to adjust the reach on the Comp. Tried the 2.5 mm screw within the lever but can not figure to shorten the reach.

Thanks


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

zcmack said:


> i forgot a pic from my ride. here you go:


I like that colour! Hi-Viz FTW!


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Chader09 said:


> Why did you get a 15"? Is your other rider shorter?
> 
> The sizing guidelines on the BD site had 5'8" as the split between 15" & 17".
> 
> ...


I have 3 boys, 7, 10 and 13. This will be used by the 13 year old, he's about 5-5, and the 10yo is about 4-10, might be a little big for him this year. They love fat bikes!

I only took the bike for a very brief ride and it seems like I'll be ok, maybe with a longer post, like you said. I may also have to cut down the stock post so it gives my middle son a chance to ride it. Currently the seat will only go down so far. and it's still too high for him. If I were buying one solely for me, I would get the 17". I have an 18" Pugs already.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

I shimmed the front rotor and re-aligned the caliper last night. Works perfect now. I also greased the front hub.

Does anyone know what size seat post clamp fits this frame? I want to get a QR clamp.


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## zcmack (Apr 19, 2012)

falkry05 said:


> Every caliper I've seen has some sort of lateral movement adjustment. The screws you'll need to loosen to move the caliper look like they are located by the "130505 44-001S" white text in that picture. Should be able to slide the caliper towards/away from the wheel once you loosen two of those bolts.


thanks for the info. worked like a charm.


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## zcmack (Apr 19, 2012)

delete


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

69tr6r said:


> I have 3 boys, 7, 10 and 13. This will be used by the 13 year old, he's about 5-5, and the 10yo is about 4-10, might be a little big for him this year. They love fat bikes!
> 
> I only took the bike for a very brief ride and it seems like I'll be ok, maybe with a longer post, like you said. I may also have to cut down the stock post so it gives my middle son a chance to ride it. Currently the seat will only go down so far. and it's still too high for him. If I were buying one solely for me, I would get the 17". I have an 18" Pugs already.


Very cool. You could cut the stock post down enough to allow your shortest to fit. Then get a 400mm post and a 2nd seat for you. You could just swap them out as needed.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

69tr6r said:


> I shimmed the front rotor and re-aligned the caliper last night. Works perfect now. I also greased the front hub.
> 
> Does anyone know what size seat post clamp fits this frame? I want to get a QR clamp.


My Pro model has a 34.9 seat tube OD as measured by a caliper.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Chader09 said:


> Very cool. You could cut the stock post down enough to allow your shortest to fit. Then get a 400mm post and a 2nd seat for you. You could just swap them out as needed.


My thoughts exactly. Hence the need for a QR seatpost clamp.


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## I like bicycles. (Sep 19, 2013)

I took a different approach to addressing the issue with the spoke riding the caliper. The factory did a poor job shaving the powdercoat finish on the brake caliper mount. If you take it off and scratch off the excess paint, you may not even have to adjust the mount itself.


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## vtsteevo (Jan 19, 2010)

If anyone is already looking to offload the stock Vee Rubbers that came on their Bikes Direct fat bike, please PM me, I am looking for a set.


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## Greenfin (Jun 13, 2011)

zcmack said:


> Put another 10 miles on today. I'm loving the ride now that I've swapped off the terrible, terrible grips for some OURYs.
> 
> I expected to buy new tires for snow but I might even consider something else for the rear for singletrack as well. A few times when cornering sharply I've slid out the back wheel and wiped out; all in places where my 29er with Nanoraptors (nothing special) hasn't had issues. Then again, it could definitely be my form!
> 
> That said, one of those was a pretty decent wipeout and now my front caliper is pinging off one pair of spokes on every rotation... When I turn right it is hitting multiple pairs. I haven't shimmed anything yet because I can't find Espen's post where he recommends doing so... can anyone provide some guidance? Previous posts mentioned putting washers behind the rotor, but the caliper is what is making contact, not the rotor. Am I spacing the caliper further rearward? Should I just take a file to the caliper to accelerate the "wait time" to get nicer brakes?


Lower your PSI, traction and confidence will increase exponentially.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

chuckhead said:


> I have searched but I can not find on how to adjust the reach on the Comp. Tried the 2.5 mm screw within the lever but can not figure to shorten the reach.
> 
> Thanks


Have you pulled out the pads and pushed the pistons back in? You can actually do it without pulling the pads, but it tends to scar them up a bit or maybe contaminate them, so it's probably worth it to pull the pads first.


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

Has anyone looked at raising the handlebars at all? It looks like they're at full extension, so some sort of stem raiser would be necessary. Once I get my seat to a proper height, I feel like the handlebars are just a tiny bit low for my comfort (0.75" - 1.5"). Opinions?


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

randomsample said:


> Has anyone looked at raising the handlebars at all? It looks like they're at full extension, so some sort of stem raiser would be necessary. Once I get my seat to a proper height, I feel like the handlebars are just a tiny bit low for my comfort (0.75" - 1.5"). Opinions?


You could use a riser bar to gain a little height. If you need more you could also use a stem with a higher degree of rise. 40mm riser bars are pretty easy to find and would give you 3/4" to maybe 1".


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## manfromwillow (Sep 15, 2012)

randomsample said:


> Has anyone looked at raising the handlebars at all? It looks like they're at full extension, so some sort of stem raiser would be necessary. Once I get my seat to a proper height, I feel like the handlebars are just a tiny bit low for my comfort (0.75" - 1.5"). Opinions?


I am in the same boat. I ordered a steer tube extender, Delta Stem Riser Adapter - Bike Forks / Headsets / Stems should be here this weekend, I'm hoping it works. I have went with riser bars on my other bikes but I might try out some jones bars on this one.


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

Venturewest said:


> You could use a riser bar to gain a little height. If you need more you could also use a stem with a higher degree of rise. 40mm riser bars are pretty easy to find and would give you 3/4" to maybe 1".


I hadn't considered that. thanks!


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## vtsteevo (Jan 19, 2010)

that should work


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Going off topic for a moment here.

I've been reading a lot about people wanting to have better traction and are worried that the stock tires may not be up for it when the snow comes around.

In a world of disposable income I can see just tossing the vee's out and dropping another $130 to $300 for a different set of tires. However, many of us don't live in this world and dropping $30 bucks sounds more reasonable.

I found a blog that talks about DIY studding. I would try this first before thrashing some new tires.

Here is a link.

- Fat Tire MN -: DIY Studded Tires


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Just as an FYI - studs only help on ice, they don't increase traction in snow or rocks/dirt.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Underneath most snow cover trails is a patch or layer of ice. As for frozen hard pack dirt. How couldn't a hundred small spikes being pressed into the trail from your body weight not give better traction?

I think studded tires would have its advantage's in all but a few situations in winter riding. 

Rocky terrain, I would say studs are out. The trail is unpredictable and changes from day to day.


Just my opinion.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Oh sh*t that's badd*ss!



duggus said:


> You can get lots of different colored tapes online... this is what I used and quality has been good. Just leave the backing on. My first round I took backing off and used a rubber tube... a couple popped through. Leaving backing on works great.
> 
> I got the 3" wide reflective stuff. Wheels glow when lights hit them  Incom Manufacturing
> 
> ...


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## I like bicycles. (Sep 19, 2013)

vtsteevo said:


> If anyone is already looking to offload the stock Vee Rubbers that came on their Bikes Direct fat bike, please PM me, I am looking for a set.


Vee Rubber Mission Fat Bike Tires 72TPI | eBay

Can't beat that.


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## Bobbyjr1 (Aug 17, 2013)

I fixed mine by loosening the 2 bolts holding the caliper to the bracket,not the bracket to the fork. Just needed to move it slightly away from the spokes.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Solo-Rider said:


> Just my opinion.


Actually doing it trumps opinion 

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=882725
Anyone here use studded fat tires?


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## falkry05 (Nov 23, 2009)

Well, put together three of the bikes, two comps and one middle level model. One of the comps and the middle level went together flawlessly, with only a minor brake adjustment necessary due to calipers striking the spokes. 

However, the second comp is where things came apart. The front wheel wouldn't fit in the fork, so i measured the spacing on the fork to be about 13mm shy of the hub size. Also, one side of the fork is about 1/4" longer, and 1/4" offset (more forwards) than the other side of the fork. Through quick inspection, its very clear that the two halves of the fork are not at all bent in the same way. The bolts on the front rotor were also stripped from the beginning, even before I had a chance to ruin them myself. We've emailed BD about the issue and we'll see what happens.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Can anyone who has received their fat bike put up a ride review? Especially someone who can compare it to a Pugs or other fat bike. I'm curious about handling, shifting and braking.


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

The missing BD pedals came in the mail yesterday even though I replied back saying I didn't need them. 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

epg0 said:


> The missing BD pedals came in the mail yesterday even though I replied back saying I didn't need them.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


Plastic or metal?


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

arock said:


> Plastic or metal?


Metal










Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

epg0 said:


> Metal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those actually look decent. Better than the all plastic pedals I'm using now.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

...and when you don't have them on the bike you can use them to moor your boat in the summer.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

The ones I received had some plastic toe clips with straps too.


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## mieljo (Sep 3, 2013)

*Custom FB4 Elite*

Having fun so far with this bike. Rear derailleur needs some tuning to avoid skipping gears, but otherwise everything is working great for a bike in the price range. I added a few red anodized components which I prefer over the green that was included.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

mieljo said:


> Rear derailleur needs some tuning to avoid skipping gears, but otherwise everything is working great for a bike in the price range.


FWIW, the one I built up needed the limit screws adjusted a bit- when in the smallest cog in the rear, it wasn't dropping all the way down. Start from there and when you get the cable tension dialed in (barrel adjusters), you should be good to go.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Not sure if that's how you were riding it, but that's not a very good selection - granny up front, smallest cog out back - I can see some skipping running that gear. 

Glad to hear you like it, as I wait for mine I keep getting these paranoid thoughts :-D


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## mieljo (Sep 3, 2013)

I adjusted the limit screws but it seems to skip over some gears. I'm guessing the tension is too high.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Seems like a lot of owners want to go with Nates for more traction. I have a pair of lightly used 27tpi Nates if anyone is interested.


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## Moab53 (Oct 18, 2013)

Hey mieljo . Great look swapping out those for red. It looks like you swapped out the rim tape too. I ordered one of these that has the 95mm front rim - what did you use for rim tape (as some have suggested other types of materials other than actual rim tape)?

Seems that the Surly rim tape only goes up to 75mm. Someone suggested just trimming two of those and splicing them in front. Looks great BTW.


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

BD is offering Vee Mission 60TPI folding bead tires for $70/pair on their Facebook page. 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## I like bicycles. (Sep 19, 2013)

epg0 said:


> BD is offering Vee Mission 60TPI folding bead tires for $70/pair on their Facebook page.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


That's a pretty awesome deal. You must like their post, share it, and email [email protected] to claim one.

For anyone needing a link to their post: https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.p...set=a.446823219367.236678.122199864367&type=1


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

I like bicycles. said:


> That's a pretty awesome deal. You must like their post, share it, and email [email protected] to claim one.
> 
> For anyone needing a link to their post: https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.p...set=a.446823219367.236678.122199864367&type=1


The price is good, but how's the tire ?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Got my pedals too. Great service and quick response, thx BD.


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## I like bicycles. (Sep 19, 2013)

epg0 said:


> The price is good, but how's the tire ?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


As a front tire, it's excellent for almost all conditions except for ice. I don't really recommend them for the rear wheel if under wet conditions. I actually put my tread on backwards for better grip over damp logs.


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## mieljo (Sep 3, 2013)

I used two 45mm Surly rim tapes on the front. They seemed to cover the holes adequately, but I have read a recommendation to tape them together that I didn't do. The 75mm Surly Clown Shoe rim tape worked fine in the back.


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

I like bicycles. said:


> As a front tire, it's excellent for almost all conditions except for ice. I don't really recommend them for the rear wheel if under wet conditions. I actually put my tread on backwards for better grip over damp logs.


Looking for a winter tire. Debating on these, on one, or wait for snowshoe.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Moab53 said:


> Hey mieljo . Great look swapping out those for red. It looks like you swapped out the rim tape too. I ordered one of these that has the 95mm front rim - what did you use for rim tape (as some have suggested other types of materials other than actual rim tape)?
> 
> Seems that the Surly rim tape only goes up to 75mm. Someone suggested just trimming two of those and splicing them in front. Looks great BTW.


I swapped the green on my Elite with the Surly blue rim tape and it looks a lot better with the flat black. For the rear I used one 75mm which is a perfect fit, for the front I used two 75mm and trimmed them down so they would overlap in the center, trimmed them just shy of 55mm, so no tape needed.


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## Moab53 (Oct 18, 2013)

GoPlayOutside said:


> I swapped the green on my Elite with the Surly blue rim tape and it looks a lot better with the flat black. For the rear I used one 75mm which is a perfect fit, for the front I used two 75mm and trimmed them down so they would overlap in the center, trimmed them just shy of 55mm, so tape needed.


Great suggestions. will order a couple of colors in those sizes. haven't received my bike yet so excited. A buddy got his black one in last week and it looks great.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Moab53 said:


> Great suggestions. will order a couple of colors in those sizes. haven't received my bike yet so excited. A buddy got his black one in last week and it looks great.


Sorry... I meant to to say - I used two 75mm and trimmed them down so they would overlap in the center, trimmed them just shy of 55mm, so NO extra tape was needed to hold the rim tape together


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## bmccoy68 (Oct 9, 2013)

Still waiting on my pedals from BD, but I wanted to get my comp tested out. So I stopped by my LBS and picked up a nice pair of redline platforms. Finished assembly but I just couldn't get the high/low setting on the rear derailleur correct. So rather then fight with it I took it over to said LBS. 

In less then 25 min he; fixed the bent derailleur hanger (the real issue), adjusted the front and rear derailleurs. Shimmed out the front disc and adjusted the front caliper. Adjusted the brake levers, headset tension, handlebars and then took it out in the parking lot and did the pad brake-in. Now it is ready to ride. I guess I got my $12 worth out of that visit. I have not put a bike together in thirty years so it was nice to have them finish up the details for me. Very happy to have the MOTO and look forward to spending some time on it. By the way he seemed pretty pleased with the quality and thought it was a very good value. I'm happy to have a great LBS 5 min from my house.


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## Houndog45 (Oct 27, 2010)

I really like that green,these bikes seem like a great deal!!!!


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

looks great - did you swap out the rim tape too? If so where?


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

OK probably a dumb question - can you race a fat bike in cyclocross?


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

johnkcoyle said:


> OK probably a dumb question - can you race a fat bike in cyclocross?


In a sanctioned, elite level event, no. In some unsanctioned events you can, I suppose, it just depends on the organizer. Even in sanctioned events, if they have a beginner's race, they usually allow flat bar mountain bikes, so I would imagine a fatbike would be okay in such a race.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

johnkcoyle said:


> OK probably a dumb question - can you race a fat bike in cyclocross?


Ooops SDT beat me to it.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

I'd like to race it tomorrow at the chicross cup in cat 4 - anyone know if I can? I have a regular cross bike but would like to see how it rides - particular given the sand trap and mud...


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Got the first real trail ride in today. Man this bike can climb. The sandstone around here is decent for climbing already, but these tires just stick so good. It can go super steep and hangs onto off-camber more than I can trust myself not to strike a pedal in the tight spots.

I ride trials on an Echo 24, so I like techy stuff. This works so well in the slow stuff. Great balance and the brakes are already working well. I can stall and redirect anytime I need to.

Tech climbs with lots of roots, rock ledges, etc. are no problem. The tires will roll up the small stuff with little effort. On the bigger stuff, despite the weight, you can easily unweight the front and set it anywhere you want. Then the rear can tractor up as needed, even better if you pop a bit there too.

It handles flowy single-track well too. Holds momentum up most climbs with ease. The really bumpy sections aren't great (flashback to the old days) without suspension. I was running at 9psi to avoid pinches, so I know there is more comfort to be had once I go tubeless.

We had rain recently and the sand sections were uncharacteristically packed. So I didn't get to fee the float in full effect.

Overall, a great ride. Such a great purchase for the reasonable investment. Looking forward to snow (if we get a good run this year) so I can tromp around in the cold.

Also got several compliments on the color today. Everyone who I chatted with loved the blue with green accents.


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## inediblebuffalo (Sep 22, 2013)

Got my 17" Elite today. I am having a lot of trouble with the front disc brake. This is my first disc brake bike. I've been reading up on them lots.

I had some metallic sounding noise coming from the front (not friction rubbing sound). I reset the pistons and realigned the calipers multiple times and it didn't fix much. Anyways, I pushed the bars down hard to seat the wheel in the fork well and that helped a lot. I still have some noise going on though. Anyone else had something similar? 

The sound increases in loudness and frequency when braking. When I didn't put my weight on the fork when seating the wheel, when braking I noticed the wheel jerked to the left a little. Not turning left, but actually shifting left.


I noticed some dings on the caliper housing (I think thats what its called?) from the spokes hitting it. I don't know if that is the entire cause of the noise? I've heard adding a washer or scraping the paint fixes this but those two seem to contradict each other. Also, where do I add the washer?


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

1) Remove the rotor mount bolts and rotor. 
2) Place washers between the rotor and the hub.
3) Reinstall the rotor bolts.
4) If needed, loosen the caliper mounting bolts and realign it with the spaced rotor, then tighten it all back down..

Alternately, some have shaved/filed the paint off of the inside of the caliper mounting surface on the fork. This seems to give enough room for clearance in some cases.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

I forgot to mention my observations on the self-steer for the Missions.  The issue is noticeable on hard sandstone in normal turns and off-camber. You just have to be ready when you think about where you are. It caught me off guard in some tech areas, but the wide bars make it pretty manageable.

It also shows up on some hard packed trail, but disappears on grass, loose surfaces, etc.

It will be interesting to see how the Floaters differ from these.


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

Espen W said:


> Indeed:


This geometry chart is definitely not correct.

I have measure the HTA and STA a couple of different ways and I am getting about 75 degrees STA and 72 degrees HTA. How big a deal is this? I am not sure to be honest. I understand the basic principles of HTA but not really how it would practically apply to a fat bike. I do know that none of the other manufacturers are making a fat bike frame with angles remotely this steep. There has to be a reason for this. The bottom bracket height is also pretty low at 12.5 inches. (again measure pretty roughly).

One big effect that the 75 deg seat tube angle, is that it puts the rider much more forward in relation to the rear axle. Even with the set back seatpost that comes with the FB4, I am still 1.5" forward in relation to the axle as compared to my Santa Cruz Tallboy with a straight seat post. This makes the bike much harder to manual and even get the front wheel up over obstacles.

I would like it if Espen would comment on the chart. I wondered if Motobecane had the factory switch the geometry up a little bit, but I analyzed a really straight side shot of the Mammut in Photoshop and I came up with 75, and 72 degrees which supports my measurement of the actual bike. (Obviously my analysis is not perfect, but I know for a fact the bike is not 69.5 HTA and 73 HTA.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Besides the numbers, do you find a have problem with the way it rides? 

How this compares to your SC is somewhat irrelevant. I understand wanting to have two bikes similar, but they are very different bikes in design and intended usage.

Also, using a photo is not a great way to verify angles. It is very subject to the lens type and camera location relative to the bike. It may be fine to ballpark number, but not if you are worried about something like this.

I have done my own measurements on my 17" and they are very close to the chart. I used a gravity type angle finder on "level" ground. I am within 1 degree for HTA & STA.

Regardless, I really like the way mine rides. It is very flickable in tight lines and I can put it anywhere I want it. It will be interesting to see how this works in snow.


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## Innota (Feb 22, 2012)

Venturewest said:


> This geometry chart is definitely not correct.
> 
> I have measure the HTA and STA a couple of different ways and I am getting about 75 degrees STA and 72 degrees HTA. How big a deal is this? I am not sure to be honest. I understand the basic principles of HTA but not really how it would practically apply to a fat bike. I do know that none of the other manufacturers are making a fat bike frame with angles remotely this steep. There has to be a reason for this. The bottom bracket height is also pretty low at 12.5 inches. (again measure pretty roughly).
> 
> ...


Photoshop is useless for measuring angles on photgraphs. There's a million things that can affect what you see/measure.


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

Chader09 said:


> Besides the numbers, do you find a have problem with the way it rides?
> 
> How this compares to your SC is somewhat irrelevant. I understand wanting to have two bikes similar, but they are very different bikes in design and intended usage.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your comment and I hear you. So I will go through and answer your questions as best I can. I partly buy bikes based on geometry (and ulitimately how they ride). I am an experienced mountain biker and I know from my past few bikes, older Specialized FSR, Giant Trance, SC Tallboy 29er what I like. I have found that I like the geometry that Espen originally posted. That is what I was hoping for. Am I dissapointed? Not exactly, I am in research mode now.

As far as my SC Tallboy being a differant kind of bike for a different purpose is true. But if you take a look at the geometry all the other fat bike manu's are using, most are VERY similar to the Tallboy. Here is a comparison chart:

On One Fatty	68	73	445

Salsa Mukluk	68.5	73	447-464

Surly Pugsley	70.5	72	447

Nine Zero Seven	70	73	470

Trek Farley	70	73	440

Specialized Fatboy	70.5	73	455

Borealis	69.8	73	463

Santa Cruz Tallboy	70.2	72.4	445 (I have a 120mm Tower pro that slacks this out even more)

As you can see, many of the fat bikes are very close to the Tallboy (and a bunch of other all-purpose 29er cross-country/ trail bikes. There is a reason for that. The handling, and stability is amazing.

As far as my measurement method. I am using an angle finer Ipad App. I flip the phone around and verify that both ways read the same. I am also using a level type manual angle finder, and again I am flipping the gauge around to check the accuracy of the measurement. I have my Tallboy, my wife's Anthem X 29er, and the FB4, and side by side, they are all visibly different and they all read differently. My method is not machine shop accurate but it is close. My measurements for the Anthem, and Tallboy are pretty much dead-on. I am fully confident that the much steeper.

My point to this is not to express dissatisfaction with the bike, it is to put out some more information for people who are deciding which bike to buy. If you are looking for a 69.5 degree HTA then this is not your bike.

I realize there is a lot of potential distortion from photos and photo analysis. I only used this because I wanted to see if the Mammut looks more slack.

I am really glad you like your bike. What other bikes have you ridden in the past? I definitely don't have any trials experience.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

Raced cyclocross with the BD / Motobecane flat black elite today. It was dry with hardpack grass, with some rollers, mud and small hills. handled REALLY well - better than my cross bike for cornering on grass and rolling over the pump track. The weight definitely was a factor overall and I finished probably 30 places down from my "normal" spot.


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

Glad you were able to get it out there in a race! Sounds like a blast. Did you get some interesting comments/looks?


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Just a quick note. I mounted a water bottle cage to the downtube, and one of the bosses stripped out with almost no force. So be wary when tightening the braze-on bolts. No big deal, the other screw tightened up fine. If it starts to back out I'll figure something out then.

I also added a BBG bashgaurd to replace the big ring. That steel big ring is heavy, 220 grams!


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I await the delivery of my FB-4 in the next few weeks (estimated ship date is the first week of November). I have pre-bought the following, any comments welcomed: 
- RF bash guard to replace the big ring - I will never use the big ring
- PC991 chain - I had an order going so I added it, probably little weight difference. 
- SRAM cassette - it looks like that's .25lb right there
- SPD pedals (just need 'em)
- Q-tubes
- Oury grips with green collars - I'm sure that's an increase in weight, but need 'em

I may go tubeless eventually, I'll have to see how it goes with the Q tubes


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Jisch said:


> I await the delivery of my FB-4 in the next few weeks (estimated ship date is the first week of November). I have pre-bought the following, any comments welcomed:
> - RF bash guard to replace the big ring - I will never use the big ring
> - PC991 chain - I had an order going so I added it, probably little weight difference.
> - SRAM cassette - it looks like that's .25lb right there
> ...


Looks like some great upgrades Jisch. I forgot to mention that I was impressed with the KMC chain and Missing Link that came on my Comp. But you'll eventually need a chain anyway so keep it as a spare.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Venturewest said:


> .
> 
> As far as my measurement method. I am using an angle finer Ipad App. I flip the phone around and verify that both ways read the same. I am also using a level type manual angle finder, and again I am flipping the gauge around to check the accuracy of the measurement. I have my Tallboy, my wife's Anthem X 29er, and the FB4, and side by side, they are all visibly different and they all read differently. My method is not machine shop accurate but it is close. My measurements for the Anthem, and Tallboy are pretty much dead-on. I am fully confident that the much steeper..


For the other measured bikes are the rims the same front and rear?
People are remarking that the tire profile front and rear is very different on this bike. If measuring angles in relation to the ground but with different height tires, could this throw all of your measurements?

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

Of for sure - lots of cheers "FAT BIKE! FAT BIKE! FAT BIKE!" and lots of heckling to the poor souls behind me particularly from the guy with the megaphone, "there's a guy on a fat bike ahead of you... just saying, that means you're SLOW". I began to dread the barrier each lap though - shouldering 36 lbs is a lot harder than 19 lbs when you are at the red line. 

It was fun enough that I'm tempted to lighten up some of the equipment to make it more "raceable" - ordered some cheap carbon narrower bars, carbon seatpost, and 120tpi husker dus and the q tubes. I figure that will get me just under 33lbs, w/ lower rotational weight as the main advantage.


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

Has anybody gone tubeless yet? I have my rear taped but I did not get a chance finish it yet. I had to get new valve cores for my stans stems and I am mixing my own sealant.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

looks like it's an awesome bike! 

I don't like the hydro brakes though

Can someone confirm whether the BD bikeis compatible with Revelate Design's frame bag made for an equivalently sized pugsley or muk?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

boogman said:


> I don't like the hydro brakes though


I have a set of BB7s as my "spare" set and will go to them if I need to - I lost track of who has the bike - if you have the FB-4 what don't you like about the brakes?


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Venturewest said:


> This geometry chart is definitely not correct.
> 
> I have measure the HTA and STA a couple of different ways and I am getting about 75 degrees STA and 72 degrees HTA. How big a deal is this? I am not sure to be honest. I understand the basic principles of HTA but not really how it would practically apply to a fat bike. I do know that none of the other manufacturers are making a fat bike frame with angles remotely this steep. There has to be a reason for this. The bottom bracket height is also pretty low at 12.5 inches. (again measure pretty roughly).
> 
> ...


I measured the STA and HTA of my 17" Elite today with a goniometer used along with a level which is pretty spot on and came up with 73deg STA and 70 HTA. I would say Espen's chart is correct.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

GoPlayOutside said:


> I measured the STA and HTA of my 17" Elite today with a goniometer used along with a level which is pretty spot on and came up with 73deg STA and 70 HTA. I would say Espen's chart is correct.


Sounds good. Remember that the wider front rim will make the front tire flatter/lower profile and thus steepen the angles a little bit. However, when riding the bike, the rear tire will normally compress more than the front and pull the angles backwards again, so tire pressure and tire size will have a much bigger effect on the dynamic geometry than on a standard MTB (or road/CX)


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## inediblebuffalo (Sep 22, 2013)

Got my first ride in Sunday. Had a complete blast!

Just wondering, what tire pressures do you guys run at? I biked to the trails at ~13psi but was sliding around like crazy in the mud since it poured the night before (plus side was that I had the trails all to myself, save a few runners). I emptied them an unknown amount until they were more spongy and that helped a lot but coming home on the pavement was a lot slower and bouncier. Though that may have been because I had been riding for 4 hours at that point.

I didn't *want* to go home but I rode through a river a few hours before and got my socks wet. Stayed out as long as I could until my feet were completely frozen.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

What are your thoughts on the portland design front fender? Work well? Any noticeable spray off the front of the tire? 


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## Larry Endomorph (Jan 2, 2011)

boogman said:


> Can someone confirm whether the BD bikeis compatible with Revelate Design's frame bag made for an equivalently sized pugsley or muk?


Figure it out:
https://www.revelatedesigns.com/index.cfm/store.catalog?CategoryID=1&ProductID=16


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## zcmack (Apr 19, 2012)

johnkcoyle said:


> It was fun enough that I'm tempted to lighten up some of the equipment to make it more "raceable" - ordered some cheap carbon narrower bars, carbon seatpost, and 120tpi husker dus and the q tubes. I figure that will get me just under 33lbs, w/ lower rotational weight as the main advantage.


any suggestions for cheap carbon seatposts or bars? i caught a bar on a tree and took a digger and i think i could live with something a little more narrow.


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

Espen W said:


> Sounds good. Remember that the wider front rim will make the front tire flatter/lower profile and thus steepen the angles a little bit. However, when riding the bike, the rear tire will normally compress more than the front and pull the angles backwards again, so tire pressure and tire size will have a much bigger effect on the dynamic geometry than on a standard MTB (or road/CX)


I compensated for the tire profile difference today and remeasured the angles. I was surprised how even raising the front tire about 3/8" can effect the head angle measurement. I would say that between the margin of error with home angle measurement equipment and the tire profile differences, the bike could be very close to 69.5 and 73 degrees. I am getting closer to 70 or 70.5 degrees now, but my method isn't perfect.

My next step is to get a shorter stem, and get my weight farther back on the bike. I will also see how this affects the steering.

Thanks to those who also measured, and thanks to Espen for responding to this also!


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## inediblebuffalo (Sep 22, 2013)

They look super slick. I had some water spray directly up into my face so I'm going to move the fender all the way to the fork (there is about a 1" gap now). Not sure if that will fix the problem but comparing how dirty the fenders were to how dirty I was, I'd say they do their job. I was sliding around in the mud for 4 hours trying to get dirty and only had *specks* of mud on my pants below the knee.

The rear seemed to be meh surprisingly considering how big it is. My seat bag got a little muddy but my back had a lot of splash (see edit), which is strange since I don't think there was a clear line from my wheel to my back with the fender and seat bag in the way. Magic mud I suppose.

EDIT: I just remembered I played football in the mud the night before, that is why my shirt was muddy. *The PDW rear fender works fine!* Though my seat bag did still get a few drops, not enough to impact anything in my life.


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

For those you who have one of these on hand, what is the clearance in the front fork? Would a Big Fat Larry fit? Those are advertised as being 4.7inches wide on a 100mm rim.

I ask, as I see a few of you think the Mission, on the wider front rim, is not wide enough, squaring out too much on the wider rim. So, I'd like to get something wider, rounder. My bike should arrive in November.


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## sbsbiker (Dec 1, 2007)

Venturewest said:


> I compensated for the tire profile difference today and remeasured the angles. I was surprised how even raising the front tire about 3/8" can effect the head angle measurement. I would say that between the margin of error with home angle measurement equipment and the tire profile differences, the bike could be very close to 69.5 and 73 degrees. I am getting closer to 70 or 70.5 degrees now, but my method isn't perfect.
> 
> My next step is to get a shorter stem, and get my weight farther back on the bike. I will also see how this affects the steering.
> 
> Thanks to those who also measured, and thanks to Espen for responding to this also!


Any thought to removing the tires and rechecking the angles with bare rims on the ground? That way the tires are removed from influencing the angles. On the other hand, is a couple of degrees on the angle finder hurting your experience? If you like the ride, why bother with the numbers?


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Looks like they added an Orange Color for the Comp Model for Feb/March Shipping.
Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane 2014 Fantom FB4 Comp


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## iCollector (Nov 14, 2012)

How do the sizes run... These are attractive at the price, but crap.... I fall in at about 6ft, and ride a Kona Kahuna 29er in an 18in, and that fits great.

I am wondering if the 17 or 19 would be better...

'Course there is no way to know for sure without tryin' one. Just looking for observations from owners... Thanks.


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

iCollector said:


> How do the sizes run... These are attractive at the price, but crap.... I fall in at about 6ft, and ride a Kona Kahuna 29er in an 18in, and that fits great.
> 
> I am wondering if the 17 or 19 would be better...
> 
> 'Course there is no way to know for sure without tryin' one. Just looking for observations from owners... Thanks.


I'm just under 6"2'. The 19 fits good with the seat slid back a bit on the post. I ride a 19' 29er as well

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## inediblebuffalo (Sep 22, 2013)

iCollector said:


> How do the sizes run... These are attractive at the price, but crap.... I fall in at about 6ft, and ride a Kona Kahuna 29er in an 18in, and that fits great.
> 
> I am wondering if the 17 or 19 would be better...
> 
> 'Course there is no way to know for sure without tryin' one. Just looking for observations from owners... Thanks.


I'm 6' and wish I had got the 19". I am going to pickup a longer seatpost for the 17" I think.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

@ iCollector: I am 5'10" with a long 34" inseam. I got the 17" because of my short torso, but I need a longer seatpost for full leg extension. If you are a more "normal" build, you probably want the 19".


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Kawidan said:


> Looks like they added an Orange Color for the Comp Model for Feb/March Shipping.
> Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane 2014 Fantom FB4 Comp
> 
> View attachment 840734


holy crap! When the stock was out on the first order, I sent a couple of emails to them. In one I said if they sold an orange one, I'd buy it. I know it had nothing to do with my email, but it kind of feels like it.

Order placed.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

*Component Weights*

Here is the start to the compiled list of weights I mentioned earlier. I finally set time aside to get it all entered here. I will try to weigh more parts in the future. If I missed parts measured by others, let me know and I can update this list.

All parts measured by Chader09 came off a 17" Pro model.
All parts measured by russ3706 came off a 19" Pro model.

*=== Tires ===*
Vee Rubber Mission 26" x 4.0" 72tpi Tire (by russ3706 & Chader09)
*1552g average* = 1560g, 1540g, 1555g

On-One Floater 26" x 4.0" 120tpi Tire (by Chader09)
*1447g average* = 1410g, 1450g, 1453g, 1470g

*=== Tubes ===*
Stock Kenda 26" x 4.0" tube (by russ3706)
*450g*

Q-tubes (Kenda) 26" x 2.4-2.75" Tube (by russ3706)
*250g*

*=== Saddle ===*
Velo Cromo Rail Saddle (by Chader09)
*290g average* = 289g, 291g

*=== Seatpost ===*
FSA SL-280 30.9mm x 350mm x 20mm Setback (by Chader09)
*335g average* = 334g, 336g

*=== Fork ===*
26" Rigid Fork, Full Aluminum (by Chader09)
*906g*

*=== Stem ===*
FSA Aluminum 90mm x 6* (by Chader09)
*148g*

*=== Handlebars ===*
FSA Aluminum 740mm x 18mm (by Chader09)
*365g*

*=== Grips ===*
2X Foam 130mm Grips (by Chader09)
*19g total*

*=== Rear Wheel ===*
Rear Wheel with Cassette & Rim Strip, without Tire (by Chader09)
*2302g*

Rear Skewer (by Chader09)
*61g*


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Late reply to:


Venturewest said:


> What other bikes have you ridden in the past? I definitely don't have any trials experience.


My current trail bike is a 2010 Stumpy FSR in medium with 68.5° HA, 74.5° Eff SA.

I have run 3 different Specialized fullys since 1997 and demo'ed several other bikes in the last three years. Mostly Treks & other Specialized. Did 4 different ones back to back in a rare demo day back in June with both companies trailers at our main trail system. It was a great day to try lots of different bikes and see how different they really are in the dirt.

My current trials bike is a 2011 Echo 24" Pure Trials. I've ridden trials for over 20 years. It is great by itself, but it is amazing how much better you can ride with even the most basic trials skills.

This fat bikes mix of traction and being fully rigid makes it great in the tight stuff. It's my first rigid dirt bike in over 15 years and I am surprised how much fun it is. It couldn't replace the FSR for all of my riding, but it is a great change of pace and direction in riding.

My main reason for getting this (and one for the GF) is so we can have some two wheel fun in the winter. Should be cool to see how it works when we get some real snow this year *fingers crossed*


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

zcmack said:


> any suggestions for cheap carbon seatposts or bars? i caught a bar on a tree and took a digger and i think i could live with something a little more narrow.


In the short term, you can toss the foam grips and hack an inch or two off the bars to get narrow in a hurry.

As far as purchasing, keep an eye out for the impending Black Friday & Cyber Monday deals from the online retailers or your local shop.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

SocratesDiedTrolling said:


> For those you who have one of these on hand, what is the clearance in the front fork? Would a Big Fat Larry fit? Those are advertised as being 4.7inches wide on a 100mm rim.
> 
> I ask, as I see a few of you think the Mission, on the wider front rim, is not wide enough, squaring out too much on the wider rim. So, I'd like to get something wider, rounder. My bike should arrive in November.


Based on pics & measurements from others, there is about 0.5" per side on between the tire and fork legs. This is with the Mission 26" x 4.0" tire mounted on the 100mm wide rim.

Per russ3706 http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/moto-bikes-direct-fatbikes-875900-16.html#post10735806

Per yellowzx http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/moto-bikes-direct-fatbikes-875900-17.html#post10737437

Not sure if that is enough info for checking clearance on the 4.8. It will probably fit, but with minimal clearance.

Pics & info from EspenW (Bud & Lou on the Diamant original)
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/moto-bikes-direct-fatbikes-875900-17.html#post10736595


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

The orange on the Comp is great. Not surprised since they use that color a lot, especially on their CX bikes. The only thing that looks a bit off is the green accents compared to the other bikes colors.

It would be kind of funny to start an exchange program for fork swaps to mix the color up a bit 

Also, I have to say I really like that BD went more subtle with the graphics for these bikes. So many of their other bikes have over the top gfx and logos that take away from the overall look.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

I tried one of the low cost china bars from ebay like this one - I paid $24 for a 185 gram bar. quality will be uncertain. Cycling Bicycle Bike MTB Gloss UD 3K Carbon Fiber Riser Bar Handlebar 31 8mm Dia | eBay


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

johnkcoyle said:


> I tried one of the low cost china bars from ebay like this one - I paid $24 for a 185 gram bar. quality will be uncertain. Cycling Bicycle Bike MTB Gloss UD 3K Carbon Fiber Riser Bar Handlebar 31 8mm Dia | eBay


680mm is one of the longest, cheap carbon bars I have seen on ebay. I may order one too. Do you feel like it is strong?


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## bryan.gurc (Apr 27, 2012)

Just wondering if I can get some opinions on sizing. At the moment I'm riding a rockhopper (can;t remember the size because I powder coated over it) with an effective top tube length of 23.5" (596.9mm). It's on the small side as far as size is concerned and honestly thats the way I like it. From the geometry chart that espen posted it looks like I'd fit pretty well on the 17". The 19" frame is only a little less than an inch longer in top tube length. Would this honestly make that much of a difference?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I can relate this to a recent frame size swap with my RIP9. I am 6' with a 34.5" inseam (long legs, long arms). I was riding a medium frame with a 100mm stem, and I was perfectly happy. I broke my frame and Niner agreed to swap to a Large frame. There is about .75" difference between the two frames. I swapped to a 70mm stem to keep the reach the same. The handling got a lot quicker and I have a bit less exposed seat post. 

So I would say a shorter top tube and longer stem means slower steering. If your reach (distance between the seat tube and handlebars) is too short you will not be comfortable (or at least I'm not).


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Kawidan said:


> Looks like they added an Orange Color for the Comp Model for Feb/March Shipping.
> Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane 2014 Fantom FB4 Comp
> 
> View attachment 840734


Dang!! If they would have had orange in the first batch...I ordered that Elite because I didnt care to much for the green.


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

It took some crazy pumping but I got it to seal with a floor pump. My rear has held for about 16 hours the front looks good after an hour.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

^^^Awesome. I'm curious about using the foam, though. There is no deep center channel on that rim, so I don't think you should need to fill the middle with anything...


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

I tried the rear without foam ant the tire was to loose on the rim. With a compressor you can get it to seal, but as soon as you let the air out the tire drops to the middle. The inside of the rim is smooth so it does not hold the tire at the edge. With the foam I could fill it to 20psi let it go flat and refill it with a floor pump. I need to know I can do it all with a floor pump.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Sweet setup, Mr.yellowzx


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## Red Rocket (Dec 27, 2008)

I tried tubeless with just gorilla tape and it held air overnight but after riding it you can see that it is burping and leaking sealant around the bead. It didn't go completely flat but I did have to stop and air it back up.


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## tjdog800 (Aug 3, 2012)

Red Rocket said:


> I tried tubeless with just gorilla tape and it held air overnight but after riding it you can see that it is burping and leaking sealant around the bead. It didn't go completely flat but I did have to stop and air it back up.


If the rim does not have a bead socket to trap the tire bead you will have to create one with foam and tape or you will forever have to deal with burps and lost air when rode hard. Even the split tube method I use needs a bit of a bead socket on the rim to achieve a solid seat.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

What pressure did you start with before it started burping?


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## Red Rocket (Dec 27, 2008)

I was at 8 psi


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## I like bicycles. (Sep 19, 2013)

I made a video of the fat bike if anyone cares.


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## bmccoy68 (Oct 9, 2013)

I care. Very cool, I like it. so what PSI were you running there? Fun sounds in slow motion.


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

Espen W said:


> Sweet setup, Mr.yellowzx


Thank you, I get to test it in the morning.

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## Icey101 (Jan 15, 2012)

So...tried to seat the tire with bit of carb cleaner. Tire didn't seat and now I have a 3" gash in the sidewall of my new tire right next to wire. Time for new tire I guess and foam this time.


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

Espen W said:


> The fork will clear a Bud (and Vee Snowshoe).
> As linked above, one of our 230lb test riders fitted a Lou on the rear, and it did not rub on the stand, but did rub some while riding.
> However, a customer who picked up a Lou where the outermost side knobs had been shaved somewhat (in an vain attempt at making them fit a 170mm 907 frame).
> That setup cleared fine on his Mk2 Mammut.
> ...


Dear Sir,

Thanks, again, for all of your help.

So, given your statement here, along with Surly's chart showing the BFL being slightly narrower than Bud and Lou (tread/casing on 100mm rims: BFL 109/114, Bud 118/119, Lou 119/122), and the transitive property of fattness, it seems to follow that Big Fat Larrys should fit. What do you think? Heard any tales of such insanity?

Thanks


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

SocratesDiedTrolling said:


> Dear Sir,
> 
> Thanks, again, for all of your help.
> 
> ...


Yup, BFL should fit front and rear w/o issue.
I would rather spring for the new Vee Snowshoe or the Vee (Fatback) Sterling, which i suspect have the same casing. The Snowshoe has the same or slightly bigger casing than BFL, much more aggressive knobs (think On-One Floater), softer rubber in a new Silica compound (54a vs 60a for BFL) as well as hyper light weight. My lightest sample weighed an almost insane 1199g.


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

Espen W said:


> Yup, BFL should fit front and rear w/o issue.
> I would rather spring for the new Vee Snowshoe or the Vee (Fatback) Sterling, which i suspect have the same casing. The Snowshoe has the same or slightly bigger casing than BFL, much more aggressive knobs (think On-One Floater), softer rubber in a new Silica compound (54a vs 60a for BFL) as well as hyper light weight. My lightest sample weighed an almost insane 1199g.


Any updates on snowshoe arrival ?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## Venturewest (Jul 13, 2007)

*Brake Caliper Issues*



Chader09 said:


> 1) Remove the rotor mount bolts and rotor.
> 2) Place washers between the rotor and the hub.
> 3) Reinstall the rotor bolts.
> 4) If needed, loosen the caliper mounting bolts and realign it with the spaced rotor, then tighten it all back down..
> ...


I have both the Comp and Elite. On the Elite there is a ton of clearance between the spokes and caliper. Like a 1/2" maybe. On the Comp the spokes rub the caliper.

For now I swapped the front wheels, and now both backs have enough clearance that neither rubs.

It seems like maybe this is a wheel building issue if some peoples bikes do it and some don't?

Either way, it is nice to have an easy fix for those who recieve bikes with the clearance issue.


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## I like bicycles. (Sep 19, 2013)

bmccoy68 said:


> I care. Very cool, I like it. so what PSI were you running there? Fun sounds in slow motion.


Thanks! I am running on 11psi right now with tubes. This ride I brought my Canon 7D on was a long one, didn't want to risk pinch-flatting it at a lower psi, but hoping to do a tubeless conversion here soon. And when that comes, I'll probably make an update.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I like bicycles. said:


> Thanks! I am running on 11psi right now with tubes. This ride I brought my Canon 7D on was a long one, didn't want to risk pinch-flatting it at a lower psi, but hoping to do a tubeless conversion here soon. And when that comes, I'll probably make an update.


I don't have much experience on fat bikes, but at your weight you should be able to go much lower than 11psi without risking flats (and get a lot more benefit from the fatness). The ride really changes when you get the tires wrapping around stuff and giving you a little cush.


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## agrumpyoldtroll (Oct 23, 2013)

So, I was planning on ordering an On One Fatty Nov 1st. Now I found this thread. For those of you that ordered one of these from BD, I put a large Elite in the shopping cart, it says it will ship on Feb 18th or March 18th. Are these dates accurate or did the date change during the checkout process? Feb/March is too long to wait.


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## linus69 (Oct 16, 2013)

I believe all the available bikes for the B.D. Nov shipment were sold out in like a day or two like a Rock Concert.


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## wilburspud (Sep 23, 2013)

I just Prepay ordered the FB4 PRO 19" frame. The date above the pulldown menu says "PrePay Ships Feb18 or by March18".
I'm in Florida with plenty of loose sugersand and beaches. I'll be using mine year round so I don't mide waiting.
It is a long way off, but other fatbikes are 2k, 3k or more!
I am hoping for Feb instead of March though. Keeping my fingers crossed.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

From what I have seen on the Bikesdirect Facebook page they sold all the bikes from the November shipment and the next delivery is February or March, I understand the delay between the two dates is based on parts delivery to their manufacturer. 

Agreed that's late for a fat bike if you want it for winter (and why wouldn't you). I was moments away from ordering an On-One when I got the email saying they could ship me a FB-4 the first week of November. I'm ok with the wait as long as it doesn't go past November, but in some ways I wish I went with the On-One.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Jisch said:


> I'm ok with the wait as long as it doesn't go past November, but in some ways I wish I went with the On-One.


Out of curiosity, why the regret?

I am thrilled with my bike in general and even more so when you consider the price. I haven't ridden other fatties, but this handles great for trail work. The weight is reasonable and leaves plenty of room to lose more if you want.

Not to mention that you get a front deraileur.


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## inediblebuffalo (Sep 22, 2013)

Jisch said:


> I don't have much experience on fat bikes, but at your weight you should be able to go much lower than 11psi without risking flats (and get a lot more benefit from the fatness). The ride really changes when you get the tires wrapping around stuff and giving you a little cush.


I'm 70kg. What PSI range can I safely run with tubes?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Chader09 said:


> Out of curiosity, why the regret?


I don't have the bike in hand, so I can't really say anything yet about quality or whatever. I guess my main regret (right now) is in not having the bike in hand. I do want a granny, so that definitely was part of my decision process. I like the look of the On-One too - though that's not a huge decision factor for me.

I probably overstated it a bit, not huge regret, just wish I had the bike.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

inediblebuffalo said:


> I'm 70kg. What PSI range can I safely run with tubes?


I'm 170lbs (77kg) and I was running 8.5psi with no issue.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

I'm 190lbs and feel quite secure at 7lbs on a not-too-rocky trail. In the snow I think 5 or even 4 should work.


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## iCollector (Nov 14, 2012)

Chader09 said:


> Out of curiosity, why the regret?
> 
> I am thrilled with my bike in general and even more so when you consider the price. I haven't ridden other fatties, but this handles great for trail work. The weight is reasonable and leaves plenty of room to lose more if you want.
> 
> Not to mention that you get a front deraileur.


How long have you had it. These are sooooooo tempting, but I wonder how they will stand up to time and wear'n tear.

The price is feeling like crack!


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

iCollector said:


> How long have you had it. These are sooooooo tempting, but I wonder how they will stand up to time and wear'n tear.
> 
> The price is feeling like crack!


I got mine on 10/11/2013. Built and short first ride the next day. One real trail ride last Saturday. So, not very long really, but enough to see the value.

However, I got two (1 for me, 1 for my GF) and both builds went very well. I am pleased with the overall quality and got lots of compliments on the color/finish on the trail ride.

I expect these to do very well in the long rub. I got the Pro model with the Deore level components. The frame/fork is the same as the original Diamant version designed by EspenW who posts here. So I think these will be plenty durable over time. No overly cheap parts or signs of bad manufacturing that I have seen.

I think they are a steal at the price. The Pro saved me $500 or more compared to others (On-One, Pugsley, Kona, KHS). I can buy lots of upgrades for that difference. I already got the On-One Floaters for $130 a set.

Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with one of these bikes.


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## I like bicycles. (Sep 19, 2013)

Jisch said:


> I don't have much experience on fat bikes, but at your weight you should be able to go much lower than 11psi without risking flats (and get a lot more benefit from the fatness). The ride really changes when you get the tires wrapping around stuff and giving you a little cush.


I'd have to agree with you. As you can see the course, it's filled with rocks (and the first clip is a dried out riverbed since no water runs during fall) I did 6 psi the first ride with it and it was excellent up until I pinched flat 4 miles in. I could feel the tire pressing to the rim a few times. Ended up walking the bike the whole way back and it got dark, but I brought my helmet with the light and a charged battery. A little bit of rim biting is okay in my book, but my book doesn't usually include inner-tubes.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Ah, so you found the lower limit. I always carry a spare tube and a patch kit, even on shorter rides, I've done the walk of shame too many times. From my short experience on the Pugs, there is a good in between spot where you have enough air to keep from pinch flatting, but not so much that there's no cushion. I saw a huge difference between 11 psi and 8.5.


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

Jisch said:


> Ah, so you found the lower limit. I always carry a spare tube and a patch kit, even on shorter rides, I've done the walk of shame too many times. From my short experience on the Pugs, there is a good in between spot where you have enough air to keep from pinch flatting, but not so much that there's no cushion. I saw a huge difference between 11 psi and 8.5.


Spent most of the weekend playing with different tire pressures trying to find that happy spot with the most grip/squish with out worrying about pinch flats. For me (175lbs) that seems to be right around the 9psi mark. 7 seems to work best in the sand and I will prob stick to using that for long beach rides. 11-12 seem to be the fastest on the single track, but would get a little bouncy on the fast sections that have roots/rocks. Dropping it to 9 helped a lot with the bounciness and the speed loss is minimal so that will prob remain my daily tire pressure until i go tubeless after the holidays.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Chader09 said:


> I got mine on 10/11/2013. Built and short first ride the next day. One real trail ride last Saturday. So, not very long really, but enough to see the value.
> 
> However, I got two (1 for me, 1 for my GF) and both builds went very well. I am pleased with the overall quality and got lots of compliments on the color/finish on the trail ride.
> 
> ...


Where did you order your On One Floaters from, the UK? If so how long did it take to receive them? I had planned on waiting on the Vee SnowShoe but I havent seen or heard anything about a release date.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Yes, I got them from the UK. I don't remember exactly, but it was between 1-2 weeks to Montana. Not bad really considering the distance.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Just to verify, the front rim on the green one is 100mm? Just drilled different?


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## GoldDust (Oct 24, 2013)

I nearly bought on of the initial batch, but when I then looked again they had gone.

I am less than clear as to which one of the 3 hits the sweet spot, are the upgrades worth it?

My interest peaked again as I was walking the dog through our usual routes to find snow admittedly slushy currently, but not for much longer.

PS the On One must be one of very few examples of a Far East product costing more in the US than the UK.


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## Greenfin (Jun 13, 2011)

First off to qualify I dropped 3100 on a upgraded 2012 fatback two years ago; I love it, will never sell it, feel it was a great value, and could probly turn it for 2800 with the escalators I have on it. That said I am posting here because my buddy who had only ridden a pugs in a parking lot for two minutes bought one of the last large 19" frames and got it last Thursday. My first impressions are solid bike and amazing value. So much so that I can confidently say 80% of people considering a fatty should get this bike based on value alone. 
I would call this bike a "shot across the bow" of any fatbike manurfacturer wanting to sell LOTS of fat bikes. The only limiting factor for this bike is its limited availability. I don't know how many they sold but Moto could double it, if they had them to sell.

I spent some time fine tuning my buddies new bike over the weekend ... Below were the things I had to fix to get it just right for him.

Stem was pointed down
Top head set needed to be lowered. 
Brakes and shifter cables were all sorts of twisted. I took apart cockpit to release the tension on ALL cables and hoses.
Foam grips were glued on and needed to be cut off to remove brakes and shifters.
Front brake rotor was hitting the front brake mount. I had to file the brake mount faces on the fork and the brake mount it's self. 
Rear derailleur needed only slight adjustment.
Normal seat height and saddle adjustments.

For those that have bike wrenching experience the above would be easy to fix. For those that don't taking the bike it for a $60 tune up would fix most problems.

Buy this bike. Don't think of it as late for this season just early for next winter.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

richulr said:


> Just to verify, the front rim on the green one is 100mm? Just drilled different?


I think that's correct. I should know better since I have one, but sometimes I forget the little details.

Greenfin, you are dead-on with your comments. This bike is a definite shot across the bow of major (Surly/Salsa) fat bike makers. Same goes for the tune up procedure, either take it to a shop, or go through the bike yourself. You will not be disappointed with one of these.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Wow, you guys are making me feel good about my purchase, can't wait for it to get here!


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

Same here; I can't wait to get mine!


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## epg0 (Mar 4, 2012)

*green grips*

Added green Ouri SDG grips. They match the green on the bike perfectly.


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## agrumpyoldtroll (Oct 23, 2013)

linus69 said:


> I believe all the available bikes for the B.D. Nov shipment were sold out in like a day or two like a Rock Concert.


Yeah, that's what i thought. Thanks.


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## linus69 (Oct 16, 2013)

I would email Myles at B.D. and ask him about the Nov bikes, someone said they were still able to get one from the Nov shipment. Myles email is

[email protected]


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Ok, so anyone put a different fork on these? So a rack can be mounted or water bottles? Just curious...


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

a seatpost rack would be easy. Anything connecting to the dropouts would be interesting considering the width. 

There are two water bottle mounts already drilled into the frame and screws - just need a cage.


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## linus69 (Oct 16, 2013)

Here is a decent deal on a low pressure presta tire gauge for fatbikes.

Meiser Presta Valve Dial Gauge with Pressure Relief 30PSI Bike Tires Tool | eBay


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

just pulled the trigger for an 19' orange comp. gonna do some upgrades, 1st is different tires and tubeless. any suggestions for the best tire upgrade for snow conditions? the bike wont be here till feb of 14 but i've been battling lukemia anyway, so it dont matter, i wont be well before then. Gives me something to look foward to and gather parts as i wait for delivery.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Vee Snowshoe 4.7 is the tire that you want.
Speedy recovery to you!


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## p_cycle (Jul 22, 2006)

So I understand mass masketing, like bd's business model, takes focusing on the middle of the bell curve as a given.
but since Espen W has been vocal and open about many decisions in the development process I was wondering if he could explain the lack of an XL version.
I mean Norway and neighboring vikings are statistically one of the best markets for an XL case. So why the "negligence"
was there some geometry restriction I fail to identify or just a matter of logistics and production cost control?


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## sbsbiker (Dec 1, 2007)

BD just called and told me my Elite that was due nov5 shipped today!


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## fujiteam (Jan 12, 2009)

Got the call for the comp too. Crap, now I need to the tell the GF I bought another bike.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Just got the call too.


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

Rcksqrl said:


> Ok, so anyone put a different fork on these? So a rack can be mounted or water bottles? Just curious...
> 
> Sent from magic wish granting phone


Not planning on any racks but I am thinking about a carbon fork after the holidays.


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

I got the call too! I was out and about, didn't get the voicemail until just now. Called them back, and they said it is there, and they asked if it was okay to ship it on Monday. I sort of wish I had been able to answer earlier, perhaps it would have shipped today. Ah well, it's still earlier than expected. 

I got the pedals in the mail today... what a tease.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

Ah! I'm an idiot - I was about to reply that I had bought one of those and it was not helpful because it started at 5psi and you couldn't read the marks in less than 20lb increments - and then I see that this one goes from 0 - 30 (vs. mine from 5 - 150)

This would be helpful. Amazon was nice enough to let me keep it for free vs. returning it (good for my road bike) and I ordered a digital SKS airchecker for $22.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

Espen W said:


> Vee Snowshoe 4.7 is the tire that you want.
> Speedy recovery to you!


Espen I'm sure I speak for everyone here that it has been a real joy to have you participate in this forum. I've raced bikes since I was 8 years old up to the international level and I've never been as jazzed about a bike. It really is a beautiful / elegant design and is just a joy to ride. as I mentioned previously I raced mine in cyclocross race last weekend and was the most popular kid at the party : ) My daughter now wants an orange one, so looks like the garage is going to get fuller.

So about the Vee snowshoe - any idea when commercially available? I decided to bite the bullet and get a Bud for the front, but I'm holding out for a snowshoe on the rear for clearance and cost saving reasons.

Oh, and since you're an engineer - here's a project to consider: flat LED's between the tube and rim tape that light up the wheels from the inside - powered by a screwtop on the Presta valve - can you make it happen? : )


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

> ...flat LED's between the tube and rim tape that light up the wheels from the inside - powered by a screwtop on the Presta valve - can you make it happen? : )


You have inspired me to try this somehow with my bike when it arrives... *strokes goatee contemplatively*


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Found it:

tubeless fatbike made easy - Page 2


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

As for the rack, I picked up a standard one from the LBS, fit just fine with one support inside and one outside the rear fork.

I also picked up a stem raiser, and the difference is incredible. The handlebars were a bit low for me, but I didn't want to pick up riser bars just yet (I'm contemplating saving up for some Jones bars). The ride is much more comfortable, $18 bucks well spent.

I didn't have time to drive out to the nearest mtb trails, so I rode around on some local sandbars this afternoon. This winter is going to be awesome.


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## tjdog800 (Aug 3, 2012)

linus69 said:


> Here is a decent deal on a low pressure presta tire gauge for fatbikes.
> 
> Meiser Presta Valve Dial Gauge with Pressure Relief 30PSI Bike Tires Tool | eBay


I have this exact gauge and it worked great for a couple months; it would take a reading and hold it until the relief button was pressed. Now it won't hold a reading. It still reads accurately mind you but the relief button no longer works.


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## coot271 (Sep 15, 2010)

I am hoping that the elite may come in another color since BD is now offering the comp in orange......I already have a matte black Moto......OR, I may just go with the orange comp. Will someone take a closeup pic of the front der.? I read it was an "E-type" which mounts on the bottom bracket, yes?


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## bmccoy68 (Oct 9, 2013)

there is a pretty good shot of it on the Comp page at BD. You can see the frame mount post and also a little bit of the bottom bracket mount that come up and connects. Kind of like a built in chain guard.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

I was wondering what that was.. Couldn't figure it out! 


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## iCollector (Nov 14, 2012)

I was this close |----| to ordering one of these! when I stumbled upon a very lightly use Pugsley in yellow (not my choice of color...but) in my size, for $100 more.

I bought it... I hope I enjoy it. I always feel conflicted when I have to make these kinds of choices... 

Also, I have it today.


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## linus69 (Oct 16, 2013)

I ride a 17in frame due to having short legs on a height of 5`11 1/2 but I did not like the handle bar height on the 17in. I too used a Delta Alloy Bicycle Stem Raiser to correct this issue and now I really enjoy the fit, for me it was like day and night for my comfort level.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

I was able to take my Elite on its first real single track ride today, I've done a few short rides just to get a feel for the bike. I rode a 7.5 miles not to technical of a route, but it had its moments and there was lot of climbing. This is my first Fat Bike and I was impressed how well it handled in the sharp switch backs and going straight up and it ate the rock garden up. I did have one small spill while slowing down on a gravel road to enter the trail, the rear wheel slid out from under me and I ended up on the ground. I ran the tires at 10psi and left a little beat up afterwards may need to play around with going little lower on the tire pressure. Only changes I've made so far is the rim tape to blue, Q-tubes, carbon spacers, blue seatpost clamp, ODI Rogue grips and trimmed the bars down to 70mm. I was thinking about adding a bashguard since I'll never use the large ring, but might just replace the crank to something lighter.. any recommendation? I also reversed the rear tire for better climbing traction. Only issues I've had with the bike besides the normal tune up and greasing parts is I need to bleed the rear brake it's squishy, most likely has air in the line.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I am hoping that the elite may come in another color since BD is now offering the comp in orange......I already have a matte black Moto......OR, I may just go with the orange comp. Will someone take a closeup pic of the front der.? I read it was an "E-type" which mounts on the bottom bracket, yes?


Here you go..


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## coot271 (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks GoPlay. It looks like the post is permanent. BTW, the blue/black scheme looks great. Nice job. Also, is yours the 17" and what length is the stem??


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Stock stem on 17" is 90mm (on my Pro model at least).


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Thanks GoPlay. It looks like the post is permanent. BTW, the blue/black scheme looks great. Nice job. Also, is yours the 17" and what length is the stem??


Thanks, The post is welded to the seat tube. Yes it's a 17" and it came with a 90mm stem


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

My 19" Elite should arrive this week, and I'm stoked! With so many people using steer tube extenders, I'm glad I have a high rise stem handy. I may actually have a use for it; since my failed attempt to convert my XC bike to dirt drops, it's just been rattling around my toolbox.


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## linus69 (Oct 16, 2013)

*Poor Mans Porgies*

Put on a pair of Tusk Cold Weather Universal ATV Mitts, I think they will work out fine and they were less than $20


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## sbsbiker (Dec 1, 2007)

UPS tracking shows my Fatbike has made it from TX, to CO, next stop is my doorstep!


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## Jiff24 (Jan 4, 2012)

Which bash guard are people getting to replace the big ring on these bikes? I just got my Elite yesterday and want to get rid of that silly ring, any suggestions?


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Jiff24 said:


> Which bash guard are people getting to replace the big ring on these bikes? I just got my Elite yesterday and want to get rid of that silly ring, any suggestions?


Check out BBG. I couldn't be happier with them, and have them on all of my bikes. Cost is great, quality is great, what else is there?

Products


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Agree with above! Have one on my FS and it is awesome


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## Jiff24 (Jan 4, 2012)

Thanks. Did you guys just get a 32T 4 bolt? Is that the best size?


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Jiff24 said:


> Thanks. Did you guys just get a 32T 4 bolt? Is that the best size?


I can't recall off hand, but you order the size by the chainring you are going to protect. If the middle ring is 32T, then order the 32, and the crankset is 104BCD.


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## Jiff24 (Jan 4, 2012)

Thanks again!


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## linus69 (Oct 16, 2013)

tjdog800 said:


> I have this exact gauge and it worked great for a couple months; it would take a reading and hold it until the relief button was pressed. Now it won't hold a reading. It still reads accurately mind you but the relief button no longer works.


I received the new gauge and it does not hold the air pressure measurement, I made inquiries and it appears they "Meier" does not advertise it as holding the reading anywhere in their description or specs. of this gauge.
It does seem to work well,it is easy to read and the bleed down valve is handy, all in all I`m satisfied.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

Jiff24 said:


> Thanks. Did you guys just get a 32T 4 bolt? Is that the best size?


I ordered the BG ultralight 32T 4 bolt and it looks great, but now I'm thinking I might like to have a few more teeth upfront for downhills etc - does anyone know can I buy a 36t middle chainring to replace it - is there a difference between the middle and outer rings? (i.e. can I use an outer ring as a middle for example?) Also I believe I remember reading that we can/should take out a few chain links?


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## fujiteam (Jan 12, 2009)

Does anyone have an idea of how to TEMPORARILY make this single speed? I'd like to run it in a cross race for the cheers. SIngle speed is the category I want to run it in. SRAM road users can zip tie the the shift lever to the break lever, anything similar on these shifters?

Also could I run a 26, 650B, or 29er rear?


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

I assume this is so the know you don't "cheat" and use the gears since you aren't actually removing the shifting components.

If the roadie zip tie is sufficient, use gorilla tape over the shifters.

Wrap it in some plastic first so you don't have gooey cleanup other than cutting the tap/plastic off.


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## fujiteam (Jan 12, 2009)

Chader09 said:


> I assume this is so the know you don't "cheat" and use the gears since you aren't actually removing the shifting components.
> 
> If the roadie zip tie is sufficient, use gorilla tape over the shifters.
> 
> Wrap it in some plastic first so you don't have gooey cleanup other than cutting the tap/plastic off.


I won't have the bike infront of me until tomorrow (assuming I can be home to sign for it). I just don't know if the zip tie trick will work.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

fujiteam said:


> Does anyone have an idea of how to TEMPORARILY make this single speed? I'd like to run it in a cross race for the cheers. SIngle speed is the category I want to run it in. SRAM road users can zip tie the the shift lever to the break lever, anything similar on these shifters?
> 
> Also could I run a 26, 650B, or 29er rear?


I believe the cables are run through full-length housing, so the easiest/ most elegant solution (to me) would be to set both derailleurs in the desired gear, tweak in the limit screws to keep them there, then undo the anchor bolts on both cables and pull the shifter and cables- you shouldn't even need to remove the cable tips.


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## linus69 (Oct 16, 2013)

I replaced the ACERA RD-M390-L rear derailleur that came on the Comp with a Deore RD-M531 Mega 9 Speed Drive. I like it a lot.


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## Drevil (Dec 31, 2003)

alshead said:


> I believe the cables are run through full-length housing, so the easiest/ most elegant solution (to me) would be to set both derailleurs in the desired gear, tweak in the limit screws to keep them there, then undo the anchor bolts on both cables and pull the shifter and cables- you shouldn't even need to remove the cable tips.


Depending on the gear ratio you decide on, the limit screws might not be long enough. Replacing them with longer screws might not even work because the point inside the derailleur where the end of the screw hits up against won't be in the right spot. But whatevs, give it a shot and tighten them down and see if it puts the derailleur on a gear you like.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

I've been thinking about replacing the crankset with a Sram X5 2x10 instead of swapping the big ring for a bashguard, plus I wanted to try 170mm length since I have gears. I decided to pull the crankset to weigh it, it's 1058g and I read somewhere that the Sram X5 was 956g not a huge difference in my mind&#8230; I removed the big ring and had to replace the ring bolts with some shorter ones.. it weighed in at 837g surprising lighter than the Sram X5, the big ring on the Samox is a whopping 216g, I may add a bashguard later.


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## sbsbiker (Dec 1, 2007)

Fatbike in the house! Fresh snow on the trails, blast this work thing or I could go ride.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

GoPlayOutside said:


> View attachment 843095
> 
> 
> I've been thinking about replacing the crankset with a Sram X5 2x10 instead of swapping the big ring for a bashguard, plus I wanted to try 170mm length since I have gears. I decided to pull the crankset to weigh it, it's 1058g and I read somewhere that the Sram X5 was 956g not a huge difference in my mind&#8230; I removed the big ring and had to replace the ring bolts with some shorter ones.. it weighed in at 837g surprising lighter than the Sram X5, the big ring on the Samox is a whopping 216g, I may add a bashguard later.


doesn't look bad at all without the big ring, though a bashguard will probably make it prettier. does anyone know if a 36t ring is available / would fit as the middle ring to give it a bit more gearing on the top end?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

36t/104BCD rings are certainly available and I would think they would fit, but you have to know how close that middle ring comes to the chainstay. I am putting a 32 bash ring on in place of the big ring when it gets here (today!).


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

GoPlayOutside said:


> I've been thinking about replacing the crankset with a Sram X5 2x10 instead of swapping the big ring for a bashguard, plus I wanted to try 170mm length since I have gears. I decided to pull the crankset to weigh it, it's 1058g and I read somewhere that the Sram X5 was 956g not a huge difference in my mind&#8230; I removed the big ring and had to replace the ring bolts with some shorter ones.. it weighed in at 837g surprising lighter than the Sram X5, the big ring on the Samox is a whopping 216g, I may add a bashguard later.


That sounds exceedingly heavy for the big ring, unless they used a steel 44t.
Your setup gives you a 32t which in my experience is much better than the 36t on most 2x setups. For our Mk3's we have a custom PF30 Samox crank with 32/22.
The 32t middle ring of the 3x setup is the main reason why we chose the 3x vs. 2x with 36/22. Lots of folks complain that they have to shift into the granny far too often with a 36t. Of course, you will run out of gears faster with the 32, especially if the cassette clogs up with ice/mud, which is a concern with lower end cassettes like HG50, but less of a problem with higher end ones like HG80, XT, and especially XX.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I got my bike today:
Boxed up nicely, no damage to the box or the bike - the UPS driver is a biker:

Put it together quickly with the parts in the box:


and in its natural environment:


Getting things swapped over, have more pics in a few.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

No more pics, but I finished the build, I changed: 
cassette 
Qtubes
ODI rogue grips (heavier than the foam ones, but better grips)
Tompson seatpost (only slightly lighter, but its longer and I had it in the bin)
replaced 44t ring with a bash guard (definitely lighter)
added pedals

I only have a bathroom scale to weigh it on, but it looks to be about 34 or 35 lbs, not bad for a $1000 fatty! Maiden voyage is probably not until Saturday unfortunately. I'll try to get it to a bike shop for a real weight at some point. 

No surprises in the build, I added grease to the headset, but didn't really do much more than that, I need to add the washers to the front disk. I'm not sure who they have on cassette duty over there in the factory, but he must have monster arms. I've never seen a cassette that tight.


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## krap22 (Apr 28, 2011)

Quick question for the guys who have one. How true to size are the frames and the sizing they list on the site? I'm 6'5 and i'm worried that the 19" will be too small for me.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm 6' with a long inseam (34.5), this 19" seems to fit me pretty well. I guess it depends on your dimensions, but I presume you would need a longer seatpost and maybe a longer stem. I changed the 350mm seatpost to a 400mm seatpost, I did that before even trying the 350 so I can't say for sure, but I don't think that would be long enough for my legs.


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## manfromwillow (Sep 15, 2012)

krap22 said:


> Quick question for the guys who have one. How true to size are the frames and the sizing they list on the site? I'm 6'5 and i'm worried that the 19" will be too small for me.


I'm only 6'2" I want a longer seatpost. I had to put on a steer tube extender as well. It might fit you after adjustments.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

This probably won't format, but I've taken the 36.2 lb elite (w/ pedals) to 33.3 lbs for little to no net cash. Plans call for bringing it down to 32.4 lbs. After that I don't see a lot of options:

Motobecane F4 Elite	35.8 $899.00 no pedals
Motobecane F4 Elite stock w/ Pedals	36.2	add light wellgo pedals 0.41	0.41 $- had them
Generic tubes	2.0	Q tubes	1.1	-0.9 $- wash - sold the old tubes on ebay for same price
Mission Vee rear & front	3.41	Husker du rear	2.64	-0.8 $30.00 $150 - $55 rebate - $15 member benefit - $25 gift card - $35 for selling on ebay
Velo bike seat	0.638	Vertu green seat 0.407	-0.2 $- wash - sold velo for same price as vertu on ebay
FSA 740MM handlebars	0.803	Chinese carbon 640MM	0.308	-0.5 $- wash sold fsa for same price as chinese carbon on ebay
Foam grips 0.0418	glow in the dark Oury grips	0.132	0.1 $11.00 
44t chainring	0.22	BG bashguard	0.035	-0.2 $16.00 holding onto 44th chain ring for now
Current Motobecane F4 Elite stock w/ Pedals and new tubes/tire	33.3 -2.5 $929.00


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

IIRC there was a .25 pound difference between the cassette on the bike and a $35 SRAM cassette.


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## pucelano (Oct 17, 2009)

Mine arrived last night. Unfortunately the rear tube had a puncture, and didn't hold air :cryin:. I'll have to patch the tube later today and take the bike for a spin during the weekend.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Espen W said:


> That sounds exceedingly heavy for the big ring, unless they used a steel 44t.
> Your setup gives you a 32t which in my experience is much better than the 36t on most 2x setups. For our Mk3's we have a custom PF30 Samox crank with 32/22.
> The 32t middle ring of the 3x setup is the main reason why we chose the 3x vs. 2x with 36/22. Lots of folks complain that they have to shift into the granny far too often with a 36t. Of course, you will run out of gears faster with the 32, especially if the cassette clogs up with ice/mud, which is a concern with lower end cassettes like HG50, but less of a problem with higher end ones like HG80, XT, and especially XX.


I weighed the ring again lastnight just to double check... it's 216g and it's definietly steel


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

GoPlayOutside said:


> I weighed the ring again lastnight just to double check... it's 216g and it's definietly steel


I can second that, mine was 220g. My scale doesn't read single grams, so it could be *as light as* 216.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

69tr6r said:


> I can second that, mine was 220g. My scale doesn't read single grams, so it could be *as light as* 216.


Both on the top o fthe line model?
How about the 22t and 32t?
Using steel for the 44t sounds weird, as I got the impression that you guys got alloy for the 22 and 32t. That (22 and/or 32t) would be the natural place to use steel on a non all-alloy chainring setup.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Espen W said:


> Both on the top o fthe line model?
> How about the 22t and 32t?
> Using steel for the 44t sounds weird, as I got the impression that you guys got alloy for the 22 and 32t. That (22 and/or 32t) would be the natural place to use steel on a non all-alloy chainring setup.


This is on the Comp model with Samox crankset. Looks like it has a different (steel) chainring than the Elite and Pro models.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Jisch said:


> No more pics, but I finished the build, I changed:
> cassette
> Qtubes
> ODI rogue grips (heavier than the foam ones, but better grips)
> ...


Can you do me a favor and post a pic of the stock foam grips? I wonder if they used our new, custom C4 grips or something else.

Note: High density foam grips are great for cold weather riding. Makes a huge difference vs. rubber grips, since they insulate way better.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I modified my rack to fit the fat tires - basically mounted a piece of 6" PVC pipe cut in half, the tires are a bit snug, but it should be fine. 


Here's a picture of one of the grips, there was double sided tape wrapped around the bars, so I had to cut them to get them off. They seem to have three flat spots then the rest of it is round. Terrible waste of a grip, but I like ODI Rogues and have them on all my bikes. I have ridden in temps as cold as it gets here without issue: 


Now all I need is for this stupid rain to let up so I can ride the thing!


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

Jisch said:


> I modified my rack to fit the fat tires - basically mounted a piece of 6" PVC pipe cut in half, the tires are a bit snug, but it should be fine.
> 
> 
> Here's a picture of one of the grips, there was double sided tape wrapped around the bars, so I had to cut them to get them off. They seem to have three flat spots then the rest of it is round. Terrible waste of a grip, but I like ODI Rogues and have them on all my bikes. I have ridden in temps as cold as it gets here without issue:
> ...


Just out of curiosity, will the bike fit in the back (standing) of your element with one of the seats folded up, or is it too tall?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I haven't tried this bike specifically, but the Pugsley fit pretty easily I had to do a little bike yoga to get it in, but it wasn't too hard. In order to get the back gate closed up I had to turn the front wheel sideways, which took up the majority of the leg room in front of the seat that wasn't lifted up (just saying that in case you were going to try and get three people inside the Element with the bike in there). Of course taking the front wheel off would resolve that. 

I plan on carrying it inside the vehicle during the winter months. I don't like all that salt and crap from the road getting on the bike.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Oh and on the Elite model the 44T ring is definitely aluminum, not steel, only minor difference between that and the bash I replaced it with.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks, those are the Velo grips that we used until recently (same type that KCNC sells with their name on). The double sided tape is a fastening solution that we developed for our new style grips. The ones on your bikes are ergonomic, so the factory locking them into place can be a little tricky, since different folks will have different preferences. 
Our new grips are round, so we use the double stick tape to make them stick. Same stuff that Lizard Skins will use on their new DSP foam grips.


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## JPaul (Sep 18, 2010)

arock,

I can confirm that a 19" fits in the back of my Element with 1 seat up/other seat down and occupied.

No disassembly required -> rolls right in. Spends a good deal of time there now taunting me!

FYI,
Paul


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Espen W said:


> Both on the top o fthe line model?
> How about the 22t and 32t?
> Using steel for the 44t sounds weird, as I got the impression that you guys got alloy for the 22 and 32t. That (22 and/or 32t) would be the natural place to use steel on a non all-alloy chainring setup.


Sorry I should have noted my Elite came with the Comp crank instead to the nicer one pictured on the Elite and Pro on the BD site. I notified BD, but as you can see I still have the Comp crank so you know how that turned out. I also have 60TPI tires too instead of the 72TPI that others are receiving on their bikes. Now that I hear that all the rings might have been alloy I feel a little cheated.. on well. All the rings on the Comp are steal and if you look closely at the cranks on the Pro and Elite that BD has pictured it looks like the 32t and 22t are steal. So i quess the only differnce on the cranks is the 44t between the Pro/Elite and the Comp


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

arock said:


> Just out of curiosity, will the bike fit in the back (standing) of your element with one of the seats folded up, or is it too tall?


I have an Element as well and you have to remove the front tire to fit in the back.


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## 2002maniac (Nov 17, 2008)

Hopefully the specs don't change for the worse with the next batch. I just ordered an Orange Comp due in feb or march.


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## factorybelt (May 30, 2011)

Received my Green Comp last night. Overall, pretty pleased with the purchase. Obviously the components are bottom-rung, but was well set up out of the box. Shifted well and went together easily. 

Replaced the seat and seatpost with ones I had on hand, and I'll probably replace the bars, and grips with some rogues from the part bin.

Brakes in their current state are just for show, the levers pull all the way to the grips before engaging the in the slightest. Gonna try bleeding them.


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## sbsbiker (Dec 1, 2007)

Got mine out into the wild today, tires were questionable on the snow, but need colder temps to really see how they work.


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## Moobiker (Mar 24, 2005)

I bought the comp (green one) in 15 inch. With pedals it weighs 35.4 lbs on my scale. Not bad at this price point.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I just got back from my first ride. It was a lot of fun. Very similar to the Pugsley I rode a few weeks ago. The Pugsley had On-One Floater tires on it, they are more compliant than the Vee's on this bike. I ended up running lower pressure than on the Floaters. I kept letting air out until it felt right, I'll have to put a gauge on it to see where I ended up. I started at 9.5 or so, which is just a bit more than where the Floaters felt good.

I noticed a little self-steer, but certainly not any worse than the Pugsley. I expected to hate the brakes, but surprisingly, they worked great all the way through. I still have a little tweaking to go, but so far so good.

Fun bike and well worth the money I have in it for sure!

A couple of pictures:




John


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks to everyone who posted their reviews. Just placed my order. Now to compile parts!!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

arock said:


> Just out of curiosity, will the bike fit in the back (standing) of your element with one of the seats folded up, or is it too tall?





GoPlayOutside said:


> I have an Element as well and you have to remove the front tire to fit in the back.


Okay... I tried it and I'm wrong the bike will fit in the back of an Element with one seat up...I didnt think it would fit but it did.


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## mrabe1979 (Sep 15, 2008)

*FB4 pro 15"*


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

Got mine today, 19" Elite, so stoked! I got it assembled, and I'm having the same issue with the spokes rubbing on the front calliper housing. Is there a consensus on how best to fix this? Many have used the ol' washer trick. A couple have faced the mount, and been successful as well, right?

If I'm going after the washer method, are there specific washers I should be going for? And where ought I get them? I saw someone say 0.8mm washers; that would be the thickness, but what diameter? Just want to make sure I get what I need to fix it correctly.


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## kalbo (Jan 17, 2009)

my buddy got his FB4 and decided he needed a test ride. took him to the MN river bottoms for his first fat ride. needles to say, he is hooked!


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

The thickness of the washers is not super important you just need to move the caliper outward a bit. Just find the ones that fit best on the bolts that hold the disc in place. I just took a bolt to the hardware store and got the size that fit around the bolt. Unfortunately I had to buy a hundred of them (for $3), the good news is I can buy another 15 or so FB-4s and be all set.

Oh and make sure your front wheel is centered and secure before you adjust the caliper, I was having hard time getting it adjusted and realized that I hadn't put the wheel in straight before tightening the QR. I guess I'm used to through axles now.


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## linus69 (Oct 16, 2013)

factorybelt said:


> Received my Green Comp last night. Overall, pretty pleased with the purchase. Obviously the components are bottom-rung, but was well set up out of the box. Shifted well and went together easily.
> 
> Replaced the seat and seatpost with ones I had on hand, and I'll probably replace the bars, and grips with some rogues from the part bin.
> 
> Brakes in their current state are just for show, the levers pull all the way to the grips before engaging the in the slightest. Gonna try bleeding them.


The brakes on the comp do pull all the way to the grips at first, I found however if you keep pumping them, like 40-50 good pulls they seem to come up just fine without any bleeding or adjustment.
I now have 50+ miles on these hyd. brakes and have no complaints with then at all, rode in a driving rainstorm and they worked flawlessly.
I also had to make a slight adjustment on the front caliper, I did not need spacers, just a little "tweaking" and it was fine.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

factorybelt said:


> Received my Green Comp last night. Overall, pretty pleased with the purchase. Obviously the components are bottom-rung, but was well set up out of the box. Shifted well and went together easily.
> 
> Replaced the seat and seatpost with ones I had on hand, and I'll probably replace the bars, and grips with some rogues from the part bin.
> 
> Brakes in their current state are just for show, the levers pull all the way to the grips before engaging the in the slightest. Gonna try bleeding them.


I had to bleed the rear brake.. what a huge difference it made.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Upgrade opinion needed, Okay I’m running 2x9 since I’ve removed the large chain and now I'm looking to upgrade the RD and cassette 11/34 to XT 9spd. The dilemma is I’m undecided if I should stay the long cage or go with a medium cage since I’m running 2x9.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Medium cage if you don't have a big ring up front, there is no need for the long cage, other than to be that much closer to the sticks on the trail.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Jisch said:


> Medium cage if you don't have a big ring up front, there is no need for the long cage, other than to be that much closer to the sticks on the trail.


Good point, thanks.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

For a 6' tall rider with 32" inseam, would you recommend the 17" or the 19" frame?


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

If anyone is planning on upgrading the RD, cassette and chain, I just picked up a Shimano XT M772 RD, XT M770 11/34 and a XT HG93 chain for $137 at Chainreactioncycle.com.


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## linus69 (Oct 16, 2013)

I would lean towards the 17in frame, the 19in has a stand over height of 31.2 inches. That wouldn`t leave much clearance with a 32in inseam, less than an inch is pretty close.


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> For a 6' tall rider with 32" inseam, would you recommend the 17" or the 19" frame?


I'm 5'11" with 32" inseam, and I got the 19" frame. I like the fit in general. The reach feels right, aside from seeing if I get used to the extra wide handlebars, but the stand-over height is just a tad taller than what I would normally prefer. It is normally not a problem, but if I have to put feet down and push out of a really technical section, it can be a bit...uncomfortable. :eekster: Maybe improving my riding skills would help fix that problem. I mostly bought the bike for snow riding, and I have a different bike that I normally use for technical riding, so not a big issue for me. I've just been doing that to get a feel for the bike, since we have no snow. Yet. Forecast looks fun in Minneapolis, though.


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## fujiteam (Jan 12, 2009)

I am 5'10" 30in inseam and I feel like the 17in is small. I have the seat pushed all the way back for now and just feel cramped. The post is at the min insert markings. I am going to go with a set back post and maybe pull otu a space or two.

I also put my 650B wheel out back and there are miles and miles of clearance, but the wheel is off center. I didn't get a chance to ride it like that. I wonder how it would do in the snow with a 2.3 650B out back going over the compressed snow from the front tire.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Took my first real ride on the Comp over the weekend. I have to say, the tires suck. I started at 9psi and kept lowering pressure to gain traction. Ended up pinch flatting the front on a rock, that pretty much ruined the ride for me, so no pics. I did have a spare tube, and fixed it on the trail, but I was just disappointed in the tires so I headed back to the lot.

As a disclaimer, I will say that the conditions were not ideal, wet leaves and rocky, rooty New England singletrack are tough on tires. Nate's would have been much better.

Also, I ended up using a 40g Big Air propane cartridge to refill the tire, and it worked great! I need to buy more of those. I consider it a must if you don't have a high volume pump, and a nice thing to have even if you do have a good pump.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

The stock Missions are great on hardpack, sandstone, and moderately loamy conditions. They lack deep lugs that work best for snow, mud and other slick conditions. I love them on our trails which are a mix of the hard to moderate soft terrain without leaves or overly slick cover. 

I threw my Floaters on for a ride this weekend. They feel great but offer less grip on off-camber sandstone compared to the Missions. I got the Floaters for snow riding and will run the Missions in the Spring & Summer.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I think I will get another set of tires for the FB4, or at least a new rear tire. 

I'm in New England as well and spent the weekend riding wet leaves. I ended up riding the tires at 5psi, I just kept letting air out until they felt good, but that was more about cushion that it was about traction. I didn't know I had gone that low until I checked them this morning. I didn't have too many problems on the leaves, but you really have to keep the weight on the seat, of course that's probably a different story with 8 or 9 psi in them. I knew while on the trail I was pushing the limits and was careful about not hitting rocks hard for fear of pinch flatting (I didn't have a spare tube with me). 

A friend of mine just put a Nate on the back of his Pugsley precisely because he was not happy with the stock tires (which have a very similar tread pattern to the Missions). 

To be fair, I don't think I have ever bought a new bike and liked the tires that were on there. The bike companies always go for low cost and light tires, which don't work well around here.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

Jisch said:


> I think I will get another set of tires for the FB4, or at least a new rear tire.
> 
> I'm in New England as well and spent the weekend riding wet leaves. I ended up riding the tires at 5psi, I just kept letting air out until they felt good, but that was more about cushion that it was about traction. I didn't know I had gone that low until I checked them this morning. I didn't have too many problems on the leaves, but you really have to keep the weight on the seat, of course that's probably a different story with 8 or 9 psi in them. I knew while on the trail I was pushing the limits and was careful about not hitting rocks hard for fear of pinch flatting (I didn't have a spare tube with me).
> 
> ...


These Mission tires remind me of the Larry. Decent for dry, hardpack, but brutal everywhere else.

I am also running Superlight Q-tubes, so I may have helped my chances for a pinch flat.

I'm anxiously waiting the release of the Snowshoe, and hoping it will fit on this bike. Seems like a nice tire at a great price.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I wouldn't say the Mission tires are brutal, but less than ideal for wet leaves, I have no idea on snow.

I just ordered some On-One Floaters.


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## pucelano (Oct 17, 2009)

Yesterday I was finally able to take the Moto for its maiden ride in typical New England trails (Rayburn, MA): rocks, roots, and leaves, on dry trails. The ride was a blast.

The Moto was surprisingly nimble, with good acceleration and great climbing traction--I walked the same few steep sections as the other riders in the group, all of them riding skinnier tires. Traction overall was great with the Missions, without any significant problems. The bike rolls over obstacles--logs, rocks, roots--with ease, and the tires (8psi in the front, 9psi in the back) absorb most bumps. The brakes worked very well out of the box, requiring no bleeding. I'm very happy with the new bike.

When I got the bike I removed the bottom bracket--held with red Loctite--cleaned the stuff out and applied Park grease to the threads. I also replaced the big ring with a BBG bashguard; the crankset bolts were again very tight, and had no grease or antiseize. The headset had plenty of grease, but added some more.

As reported by others, the front brake caliper rubbed, even on the stand, but I got to spin fine just by adjusting the caliper. During the ride the caliper began rubbing again, and I noticed that the front skewer had become somewhat loose and the front wheel spun at a slight angle, a quick adjustment, and everything was fine again. The front wheel needs to be completely centered to avoid any rubbing. So far I don't see a need for the washers in the rotor.

Future updates

pedals: the plastic ones that Motobecane sent me had already been replaced by some Shimano M540s.
skewers: I'm a fan of the Shimano XT skewers, and their awsome internal cam, but I don't think the are available for fatbikes. Does anybody know of any good skewers? What are the lengths I should be looking for?
headset: I don't particularly like caged ball bearings, and would like to replace the headset with a Cane Creek 40 series. I have to measure the headtube to know the appropriate size.
handlebar: that thing is really wide, but I still don't know how much to cut it.
grips: I don't think I will be able to save them if I cut the handlebar.
seatpost: the fit was good, but I'm still working of final fit.

My other ride is a Trek 6000 hardtail, 19.5". The Moto is the elite model, 17". I'm 5'11", 180lbs, 32"inseam. Both bikes fit me well, although I still need to tweak my cockpit in the Moto.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

You could buy an XT QR and just use the cam part, I'm about 95% certain they all use the same thread.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Also, I posted a bunch of pictures from Sundays ride in my blog: jisch.Blogspot.com

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

I have been experiencing an issue. It sounded like the spoke/caliper rub everyone was talking about, but when I look closely at the caliper and spin the wheel slowly, I don't see any spokes hitting the caliper. I think the front rotor might not be true, so is rubbing at a certain point in its rotation. I don't see any wobble in it as it spins, but I guess it could be a small variance. Should I try re-aligning the caliper? Or just take it to the bike shop?


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Spoke caliper rub is very slight, so it (usually) only happens under load, not when you spin the wheel.


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## pucelano (Oct 17, 2009)

Espen W is right. The rubbing happened under load. I solved it by realigning the wheel, which was slightly angled, not completely parallel to the fork.


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## pucelano (Oct 17, 2009)

Jisch said:


> You could buy an XT QR and just use the cam part, I'm about 95% certain they all use the same thread.


That will probably mean disassembling the cam part, and hoping that the axle from the skewer that came with the Moto fits properly.

Has anybody measured the Moto skewers? Are they 135mm front, 170mm back?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Right you are, its the other end is threaded, sorry about that.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

You need a 135mm skewer for front and rear. 

This is an offset frame rear with a centered fork.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

pucelano said:


> That will probably mean disassembling the cam part, and hoping that the axle from the skewer that came with the Moto fits properly.
> 
> Has anybody measured the Moto skewers? Are they 135mm front, 170mm back?


135mm front and back


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Just get two XT rear skewers if that is the skewer of choice.


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

pucelano said:


> Espen W is right. The rubbing happened under load. I solved it by realigning the wheel, which was slightly angled, not completely parallel to the fork.


That's a good point. I don't think it was the spokes. It happens under zero load, just spinning the wheel in the fork. I tried removing the wheel and replacing it, and the sound went away. But, after a test ride of about ten miles on the road, I got home and the sound returned. So, what might it be?


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## linus69 (Oct 16, 2013)

I bought a SKS SHOCKBLADE 2 QR 29er MOUNTAIN BIKE FRONT FENDER for my Fantom X5 29er and it came with extra mounting hardware that happened to fit the Fb4 comp so I used it and I can now use the fender with either bike. It goes on and off in a second with a quick snap.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

Espen W said:


> Just get two XT rear skewers if that is the skewer of choice.


I'm curious - what's the advantage to switching to the XT skewers? The stock skewers and QR seems fine to me.

I'm running the Surly Bud up front and a Husker Du in back - raced Iceman in Michigan and then cyclo cross on it here in Chicago and it corners better than any cross bike by far - I was leaning so far over on the off camber turns I think I could have touched my knee. Of course, climbing was challenging due to the weight and rotational mass..


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## JPaul (Sep 18, 2010)

Hi Socrates,

I had something similar (slight rhythmic pinging) on my Pro w/the Shimano calipers.

Caliper body is very far from spokes (6-8mm at closest point). Could change alignment to minimize, but not eliminate noise, all the while with a lot of whitespace between both pads and rotor. 

When I took the caliper off, it looked like some areas had been in contact with the rotor itself (paint removed where outer diameter of rotor would pass). 

Solution for me was to get 2 flat stainless steel washers and put them between the caliper mount and the caliper itself. This re-positioned the caliper radially out further from the hub, and thus far has eliminated the noise. 

May be worth trying if you have a couple of small washers around to see if this is the case?

Good luck!
Paul


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

Paul, thanks, I'll give it a try.


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## pucelano (Oct 17, 2009)

johnkcoyle said:


> I'm curious - what's the advantage to switching to the XT skewers? The stock skewers and QR seems fine to me.


Never had much luck with skewers with a delrin washer. I feell that I cannot tighten the wheel properly. I like the internal cam of the Shimano skewers.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

johnkcoyle said:


> I was leaning so far over on the off camber turns I think I could have touched my knee


Like this?


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

Jisch said:


> Like this?


yeah baby! OK really dumb question - how do you upload pictures?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I just upload them to photobucket and link them, easiest way to do it.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Hey Espen, Any chance a 29er wheelset in the works for the MUK3/BigBob? I would purchase a set for my FB4


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

On the QRs - During my last ride I noticed that there was some rub on the rear brake. I stopped and loosened the caliper and re-centered the brakes. It makes no sense why I would think that is the solution, but that's what I did. It helped a little, but I still had some rubbing noises out back.

Today I was putting a cover over the chainstay and noticed that the wheel was crooked in the dropout. This has happened to me up front as well a few rides ago. I tightened both QRs as hard as I can (I hate going this tight), but if someone finds a replacement 135mm QR that fits and works, post up a link I'm in the market for something good.

(edit - In looking you would need to buy two regular MTB rear skewers - 135mm. In some cases you can buy single skewers - like Mavic: Mavic QR Skewers > Components > Wheel Goods > Quick Releases | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop I guess I'll wait and see if my wheels move again and buy some if I need to - and you can buy XTs singly as well: Shimano XT M770 Quick Release Skewer > Components > Wheel Goods > Quick Releases | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop)


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

What PSI is everyone running in their tires? I'm 170 lbs, ride aggressively on technical trails and am trying to find the magic spot. I kept letting air out this weekend and got to a point where I was getting good cushion and traction, but I felt the rim a few times, I had to ride carefully. I got home and I had gone down to 5 and 5.5 PSI, obviously too low. 

I put them back up to 8 to start last night's ride, but that's too harsh. I let a little air out, but it was still pretty harsh. I think that 6 or 6.5 might be the right spot for me. I have some Floaters on order, I think when they get here I'm going to go tubeless.


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

Jisch said:


> What PSI is everyone running in their tires? I'm 170 lbs, ride aggressively on technical trails and am trying to find the magic spot. I kept letting air out this weekend and got to a point where I was getting good cushion and traction, but I felt the rim a few times, I had to ride carefully. I got home and I had gone down to 5 and 5.5 PSI, obviously too low.
> 
> I put them back up to 8 to start last night's ride, but that's too harsh. I let a little air out, but it was still pretty harsh. I think that 6 or 6.5 might be the right spot for me. I have some Floaters on order, I think when they get here I'm going to go tubeless.


I'm running 6.5 also (Utah desert riding).


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## inediblebuffalo (Sep 22, 2013)

JPaul said:


> When I took the caliper off, it looked like some areas had been in contact with the rotor itself (paint removed where outer diameter of rotor would pass).
> 
> Solution for me was to get 2 flat stainless steel washers and put them between the caliper mount and the caliper itself. This re-positioned the caliper radially out further from the hub, and thus far has eliminated the noise.


 I had this same issue! There was a constant metal rubbing that sounded like the outside of the rotor on the caliper. Gonna try this. Thanks.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

SocratesDiedTrolling said:


> Dear Sir,
> 
> Thanks, again, for all of your help.
> 
> ...





Espen W said:


> Yup, BFL should fit front and rear w/o issue.
> I would rather spring for the new Vee Snowshoe or the Vee (Fatback) Sterling, which i suspect have the same casing. The Snowshoe has the same or slightly bigger casing than BFL, much more aggressive knobs (think On-One Floater), softer rubber in a new Silica compound (54a vs 60a for BFL) as well as hyper light weight. My lightest sample weighed an almost insane 1199g.


Has anyone tested putting a BFL on the rear yet?


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

In regard to the intermittent metallic scraping/pinging up front: 

I took the bike to my LBS last night. (They had been deriding me for buying this thing instead of something from them, but they also kept asking to see it.) The mechanics each took it for a test spin, loved it, and heard the noise. It looked like there was a little warp in the rotor, and so the leading edge of one of the pads was rubbing on the rotor, making the noise. They made sure the rotor was bolted on to proper torque, then realigned the caliper. The noise persisted, so they moved the caliper slightly away and it's been fine since.

The bike, so far, seems pretty solid. One of the mechanics is an old BMX dude and he started hopping, wheelie-ing, etc. around on the thing. I sort of want to take him to a park and video him doing some such stuff on the fatty, as it just looks fun to me, and I'm not good at that sort of thing myself.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

SocratesDiedTrolling said:


> In regard to the intermittent metallic scraping/pinging up front:
> 
> I took the bike to my LBS last night. (They had been deriding me for buying this thing instead of something from them, but they also kept asking to see it.) The mechanics each took it for a test spin, loved it, and heard the noise. It looked like there was a little warp in the rotor, and so the leading edge of one of the pads was rubbing on the rotor, making the noise. They made sure the rotor was bolted on to proper torque, then realigned the caliper. The noise persisted, so they moved the caliper slightly away and it's been fine since.
> 
> The bike, so far, seems pretty solid. One of the mechanics is an old BMX dude and he started hopping, wheelie-ing, etc. around on the thing. I sort of want to take him to a park and video him doing some such stuff on the fatty, as it just looks fun to me, and I'm not good at that sort of thing myself.


I havent had the caliper hitting the spoke problem that others have posted, my pinging was from the rotor hitting the caplier. My front rotor is wrapped as well, it doesnt lay flat on a flat surface. After I adjusted the caliper the pinging went away, but i still have slight rub on the brake pad. Not enough to bother me yet, I'll most like end up relpacing the rotor at some point, I think the back rotor is wrapped too. I have Avid rotors on my other bikes and have never had this issue with them being wrapped, is this common for Shimano rotors?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I have had to straighten out plenty of rotors before, I have Avids on my other bikes. I think the rotors on these bikes are aluminum, I haven't pinged them to check, but they look like they are. I'm sure that saves some weight, but I would suspect they are more prone to warping if they are aluminum.


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## pucelano (Oct 17, 2009)

The rotors are steel--just checked them with a magnet.
I also had the rotor spokes hitting the caliper and this is how I fixed the pinging:

 removed the caliper from the mount
 placed a washer between the caliper and the mount; this moves the caliper slightly inwards
 loosened the bolts that hold the caliper to the adaptor and giggled the caliper
 brake hard, tightened the caliper bolts
 problem solved :thumbsup:


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

Espen W said:


> Standard Vee Rubber 4.0 tubes usually come in at 420-480g, while the Schwalbe 13F (rated to 3.0) weigh on average 190g, so you can shed up to 600g on the bike with these. We have been testing them for tons of miles and hours on our new 103mm rims with Vee Mission, and they work great. Some folks have reported 13F occasionally rupturing, but we have zero failures so far.
> The 295g Maxxis Freeride 2.2-2.5 works great as well.


Has anyone been able to find the Schwalbe 13F's w/ presta valves for sale? Only places I've found were oversees and wanted $40 for shipping.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

GoPlayOutside said:


> Has anyone tested putting a BFL on the rear yet?


I have the Bud up front - clears fine at less than 10lbs of pressure - more than that and it gets too tall. That said I run it at 5.5lbs with no fear of pinch flatting. I ordered the Lou for the rear but it has not arrived yet. Handling is significantly improved with the Bud up front - no self steer, grips like crazy. will post once I get the Lou in back. I don't know how to upload pictures though - sounds like I have to have them on a site somewhere and then put in a link?


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

johnkcoyle said:


> Has anyone been able to find the Schwalbe 13F's w/ presta valves for sale? Only places I've found were oversees and wanted $40 for shipping.


Yep, I got some straight from Schwalbe. SV 13F is the full part number for the ones with presta valves. Buying two set me back $36 with shipping to the midwest. I'm happy with them. The tires are noticeably more pliable with thinner tubes inside, so the advantage goes beyond the weight.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Okay I was heading out for a ride this afternoon and something just didn’t feel right with in the BB, so back to garage and to the bike stand. I spun the cracks backwards by hand and they weren’t smooth at all so I decided to pulled crank and BB. As I was removing he drive side BB cup I noticed the outer seal didn’t look flush and as the cup came out so did about a table spoon of water. The bearings on the drive side are frozen, I have the bearings soaking in degreaser now. Only thing I could think of is I gave the bike a bath last weekend, but I never hard stream water directly at the BB or any other components and since the bike has been sitting all week no telling of much water was in there to start with. The water could have come down the seat tube. I was going to wait until next summer before I replaced the BB and crank, but it looks like I’ll replacing the BB sooner than I thought. I was thinking about drilling a drain hole the in BB and maybe even putting a piece of an 700c inner tube over the seat post clap to keep the water out.. Any thoughts on drilling a drain hole, I’ve never put one in. Out of my years of working on my own bikes this is a first for me with water in the BB.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

That is weird, I have never seen water in a BB before either. I don't know about drilling a hole, personally I wouldn't (since I've never seen water in there before). If I was in that situation I would replace the BB and assume no water would get in there.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

GoPlayOutside said:


> Okay I was heading out for a ride this afternoon and something just didn't feel right with in the BB, so back to garage and to the bike stand. I spun the cracks backwards by hand and they weren't smooth at all so I decided to pulled crank and BB. As I was removing he drive side BB cup I noticed the outer seal didn't look flush and as the cup came out so did about a table spoon of water. The bearings on the drive side are frozen, I have the bearings soaking in degreaser now. Only thing I could think of is I gave the bike a bath last weekend, but I never hard stream water directly at the BB or any other components and since the bike has been sitting all week no telling of much water was in there to start with. The water could have come down the seat tube. I was going to wait until next summer before I replaced the BB and crank, but it looks like I'll replacing the BB sooner than I thought. I was thinking about drilling a drain hole the in BB and maybe even putting a piece of an 700c inner tube over the seat post clap to keep the water out.. Any thoughts on drilling a drain hole, I've never put one in. Out of my years of working on my own bikes this is a first for me with water in the BB.


Grease on your seatpost will help prevent this problem.


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

*Rim Tape*

I was getting a CO2 refill at the local fire safety place when I saw some retro-reflective tape for sale. In diffuse light it's kind of a golden yellow, but it's really bright when you shine a light at it. The only bit of green left is the seat-post clamp, which I'll probably replace at some point.









Sorry to hear about the bottom bracket trouble! I've had no problems, though the front rotor got a little warped when I shimmed it out, so I do get a _very_ slight pinging at high speed. It doesn't cause any noticeable friction - on the stand it rotates forever, so I'm not too concerned. I can't usually hear it over the sound of the tires/leaves crunching.


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## cracker7213 (Jun 17, 2011)

I'm thinking one of these Moto fat bikes might be a good option for me but I have a few questions that I haven't been able from the interwebs...

The back is offset right? I know the website says 135mm hubs.

Also what is width of the base model rims? 65mm, 83?

What's the biggest tires people have been able to fit? BFL? lou?

Thanks everyone!


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

the back is offset, front is not. Front wheel is 100mm, back is 80mm regardless of model. I have a Surly Bud on the front, fits fine under 10lbs pressure (I run it at 5) ordered a Lou for the back - may have to shave the knobs on the right side to clear the chain on the smallest ring - or maybe not - we'll see!

The bike is really great I have a comp and elite - really the only real need for change is the tubes and tires - the Mission's are not great - probably good for the beach or non-technical trail, but the higher thread count tires handle much better and the 4.8" tires are amazing.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

jkbike said:


> Yep, I got some straight from Schwalbe. SV 13F is the full part number for the ones with presta valves. Buying two set me back $36 with shipping to the midwest. I'm happy with them. The tires are noticeably more pliable with thinner tubes inside, so the advantage goes beyond the weight.


thanks - I ordered some - wish cyclocamping had them in stock - only $6.90 ea...


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## fujiteam (Jan 12, 2009)

I took my comp into my bike shop to have them fiddle with it. The wrench did not want to add mroe fluid to the brakes for fear of possibly destroying them. Instead we took both calipers off and pulled the brake handles. Then we remounted and centered. This removed about 1/4 stroke form the brake lever travel. The pumping 100x trick had done nothing. This was also the first bike he had seen that you could nto line of sight line up the rear caliper because of the tire.

The scale was about 36#s if I recall correctly. He had a prolog carbon railed black and green seat where the green matched perfectly. The fizik test saddles green also matched very well.

As for an earlier post of mine to make it single speed the shop is working on it. Looks like the winner will be adjusting the limit screws on the FD and then using a very short portion of shift cable. The handlebar end with the metal piece will rest against the barrel adjuser on the RD. THen teh cable will be attached as normal to the bolt. If there were enough extra cable you could adjustyour single gear with a hex wrench.

All in all he was impressed with what I got for what I spent. My first real ride will be saturday at the back of a CX single speed field. I wonder if my Contour camera can fit between the fram and the crank arm on either side for some race video.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

I did the weekly night ride last Thursday. Got some interesting comments. The current Specialized shop dealer was impressed with build, spec, etc. Then I told him the price and he was even more impressed (even shocked). He had showed up with the new Farley all decked out and finished that very day. They probably had $3,000 in it at MSRP and it was no better than my bike at less than $1,500 even with my upgrades (Tires, SL tubes, pedals, etc.)

Another guy (the previous owner of the same shop) didn't even look at my bike. However, that didn't stop him from throwing out plenty of bad comments about Bikesdirect, Motobecane, etc. He called them tin cans with components slapped on. I just let it slide since I have nothing to gain from trying to educate someone who doesn't want to know anyway.

Quite funny really. He has no idea what he is talking about with respect to my bike at least. Not to mention other BD bikes I've seen on the roads and trails. Just the expected arrogance and snobbish attitude from a "premier" shop owner.

Couple that with the fact that he walked nearly every technical section on his Trek Superfly niner that I rode while I followed him on our ride. 

People can feel all the false bravado and superiority they want with their chosen bike if they want. I will just ride everything on my "special" and laugh all the way to the bank with my unemptied wallet.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

This is the second bike I've bought from Bikesdirect. If you're willing to accept the business model, it can be a great deal, but you're always going to have to deal with the detractors who have to justify their purchase. I had a Pugs for a demo for a week, after getting my FB4 it made me feel even more comfortable that I had made the right choice, it was heavier than my bike and didn't feel any better in the woods. 

That said there are a lot nicer bikes out there, I just can't afford them right now. 

Oh well. Haters gonna hate.


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## zcmack (Apr 19, 2012)

Jisch said:


> This is the second bike I've bought from Bikesdirect. If you're willing to accept the business model, it can be a great deal, but you're always going to have to deal with the detractors who have to justify their purchase. I had a Pugs for a demo for a week, after getting my FB4 it made me feel even more comfortable that I had made the right choice, it was heavier than my bike and didn't feel any better in the woods.
> 
> That said there are a lot nicer bikes out there, I just can't afford them right now.
> 
> Oh well. Haters gonna hate.


this is my third and last bike from bikesdirect.

..until i get that itch again! as long as you have a decent toolset and can do basic bike maintenance (or have the patience to learn!), i don't know any good reason to spend more for the equivalent specs. especially on a mountain (and snow/sand/mud!) bike where the components will take a beating and need be replaced over the frame's lifetime.


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## fujiteam (Jan 12, 2009)

zcmack said:


> this is my third and last bike from bikesdirect.


Ditto, I bought the GF a 3 speed cruiser with the nexus hub. The hub alone was 80% of the price I paid. I also have a cross bike. The people who have issues with BD probobly also have issues with Fuji and Jamis and other brands that sell top spec bikes for thousands less than the biggest companies. With that said I do always go the the shop I ride for and see if they can beat a price. If anythign needs to be replaced that shop gets teh business anyway. Heck shop owners make more on the replacement parts than bikes on a percentage basis, so it is a good model for them.


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## linus69 (Oct 16, 2013)

I read that Speedway Cycle had the Vee Tire "SnowShoe" 26x4.7 in stock so I emailed them an inquiry and here is their response..
"Yes we do. They are $120ea. Give us a call if you would like to order them. We don't have them on the site yet."
Greg M. 907-222-1967.


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

Anyone have success getting one of these purchased and shipped to Canada?

Trying to navigate the bikes Direct website and can't seem to make it work. Keeps defaulting back to US shipping.

Nevermind, found it on the site.

Bikesdirect.com Shipping for Canadians | Save up to 60% off new bikes

Won't ship to Canada. Crappy.

Anyone with a good rep here willing to provide US addy and subsequent shipping to Canada, if I pay shipping?

rideit?


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

I now have the Surly Bud and Lou on front and rear. No problems with clearance for either. With the chain in the smallest gear I still have 3/8" clearance from the chain to the tread (though the little nubby extrusions come very close)

So - with some cheap carbon bars and seatpost, Schwalbe tubes, I now have the equivalent of a moonlander for less than half the cost and at 34.0 lbs, it is about 3 lbs lighter...and is, in my opinion, the best looking bike out there. If someone can tell me how to post pictures, I'd be happy to do so.


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## GoldDust (Oct 24, 2013)

johnkcoyle said:


> If someone can tell me how to post pictures, I'd be happy to do so.


There is a little box above where you type your post with square bits on the corner, click on that and link to wherever you have uploaded your photo. I use Picassa, lots of other option for hosting.

Fatbike | My Website

There is Fat Bike event near me, in January, link above, I ordered one but will be in the next batch.

Seems that the only must have extras are washers and then there are quite a few nice upgrades mentioned in this thread.


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

johnkcoyle said:


> I now have the Surly Bud and Lou on front and rear. No problems with clearance for either. With the chain in the smallest gear I still have 3/8" clearance from the chain to the tread (though the little nubby extrusions come very close)
> 
> So - with some cheap carbon bars and seatpost, Schwalbe tubes, I now have the equivalent of a moonlander for less than half the cost and at 34.0 lbs, it is about 3 lbs lighter...and is, in my opinion, the best looking bike out there. If someone can tell me how to post pictures, I'd be happy to do so.


Which cheap carbon bars and seatpost did you go with?


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

bd is gonna release a new fatbike model. They've released a teaser pic on their FB page.

own the industry BD.. just own it!


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

boogman said:


> bd is gonna release a new fatbike model. They've released a teaser pic on their FB page.
> 
> own the industry BD.. just own it!


Pictures please! (No Facebook here)
An need to know if I should halt my order for the updated version!

Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)




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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Well that's weak... Guess it will work fr suspense!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## manfromwillow (Sep 15, 2012)

My guess is a cheaper model, based on that I don't think the front wheel is not drilled


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Will be interesting to see what they do


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

probably a gravity branded fat bike.. judging by existing gravity bikes, it looks like this fatty will have a chromo fork.


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## jhmeathead (Apr 15, 2013)

My guess is one of those "swoopy" tube models like the 907 or something. The bottom tube looks different than what is on their bike now.


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

Paint looks textured-Chinese carbon frame?


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Fork looks like steel (thinner at the base of the head tube).

Frame is different with the curved downtube (compared to the straight with gusset frames).

After looking at the frame, I see what looks like a hyrdoformed toptube.

Which lead me to find this... KHS Four Season 3000 anyone 
4 SEASON 3000 | KHS Bicycles


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Hmmmm if that's the bike curious on weight... I'm actually in favor of mechanical discs.... Depends on specs and timing... Weight and how much longer before it comes out. 

Thanks for researching!!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## jhmeathead (Apr 15, 2013)

Thatd be a kick in khs' nuts if they bring out basically the same bike for 1k + less money. ouch


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

It's so funny, I just knew that top tube shape looked familiar. It wasn't until I got the KHS page pulled up that I realized it was the same color and even the same pic.

Yeah, you can tell they PS'd out the while symbols on the top tube of the KHS pic. Otherwise it is identical.

It will be interesting to see the final pic, specs & price from BD. Looks like they are pushing even harder into fatland now that they got a foot in the door.


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

wow excellent inestigation work. how is that khs bike? I'm not too fond of curvy top tubes.. what's the benefit besides stand over? It certainly diminishes storage volume with a frame bag in the triangle


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## RocktonRider (Nov 30, 2010)

Good job Chader and MiniTrail! If you scale the portion of the BD photo up to 105%, it lines up perfectly. Now the questions are spec, price, and availability...


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

this khs four season is shady as hell... I do a google search on "khs four season" and finds nothing except for the khs site.. was this bike never released by KHS?

https://www.google.com/search?q=khs...OTyQHouIDwDQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1216&bih=783


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

more khs pics from interbike.. No realworld pics by owners though


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## RocktonRider (Nov 30, 2010)

Search for "KHS fat bike", and there's also a thread on here titled "KHS joins the fray". Apparently KHS hasn't even released their version yet.


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

Maybe BD purchased KHS?


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

To the best of my knowledge, it's a new bike & nobody has one in posession yet. Some speculate that the KHS is part or whole of the old 907 frame.

Local #1:
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/khs-joins-fray-868291.html

Local #2:
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/khs-fat-bike-listed-880558.html

Half-way down:
Interbike Outdoor Demo ? Day 2 | FAT-BIKE.COM

Half-way down:
Interbike ? Day 3 ? Part One | FAT-BIKE.COM

Short mention & pic:
IB13: Fatbike Round Up ? The Big, The Odd, The Motorized

Short mention & pic:
Interbike 2013: Fatbike frenzy! | Bike Commuters


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

boogman said:


> Maybe BD purchased KHS?


Unlikely.

But they may well be purchasing the bike from the same builder as KHS. Just like they started with the Motos that are actually the same frame/fork as the MKII versions of the Diamant/Nakamura bikes.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

MiniTrail said:


> using their image might cause some problems


Who's to say KHS actually owns the design or image? KHS may well be buying an obsolete or "open" design much like BD did with the Motos.

Despite what I have been told about KHS doing all their own stuff, I suspect they just jumped on the wagon and grabbed something readily available. Maybe BD has access to the same builder and parts?


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

Pulled the trigger on the Moto Elite. 

Pretty stoked. Now the wait...


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

arock said:


> Which cheap carbon bars and seatpost did you go with?


I bought both from ebay - a hylix seatpost (185grams) and an "Eagle Eyes Design" 640mm handlebar (135grams) - they are both still posted out there and can be purchased for <$25 ea. or so, just have to wait about 3-4 weeks.

I sold the original items for the same or more, so it was a wash to save >1.5lbs.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

Trying a photo - seeing if this works:

https://picasaweb.google.com/117308391123836279536/November14201302#5946346305216547890


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

Hmmm... that works as a link but still don't see the "square bits" where I put my link so it just shows up. I'm sorry - never been on a forum till this one. Here's one of the fatty with 4.8 tires:

https://picasaweb.google.com/117308391123836279536/November142013#5946346180900665282


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

iscariot said:


> Won't ship to Canada. Crappy.
> 
> Anyone with a good rep here willing to provide US addy and subsequent shipping to Canada, if I pay shipping?


Not sure if you already figured something out, or how close you are to the border, or if you have a passport (which is now necessary for some stupid reason), but I remember someone talking about having the bike shipped to a UPS store in the US and picking it up from there. 
Otherwise, if you look around a bit, there are reshipping services out there, too.


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## arock (Sep 25, 2013)

Has anyone converted to a 1x9 setup yet? The only time I have changed out of the granny gear on mine was on a quick pavement run. Wondering what is the smallest ring that can be ran up front with drive train setup that came on the comp?


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

This bike has got me really worked up. People seem to be having good experiences with them. I have been fat curious for quite some time now but I could not come to terms with paying 2k por what I percieve is a simple bike, and one that I would not be using that often. At $700, the moto fatty seems totally sensible and "justifiable" with my concience. I think im gonna pull the trigger. Its gonna be a long wait till february but Ill have it in time for easter when the country goes beach crazy. 

I live in Honduras so no snow for me but plenty of caribbean beachline to pedal into the sunset! I might be the first fatbike user the country!


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I just got my new On-One Floater tires. I set them up split-tube tubeless. Wow that front Mission tire was hard to get off, I'm not sure I've ever seen a tire that tight. The Floater went on without too much trouble, but it was tight too, I guess the edges are pretty tall on that rim. The front was hard to get to seat, but after dumping 2 or 3 tanks of air from the compressor in they finally took. 

They look great, can't wait to try them out tomorrow. I took the bike down the driveway and it seems like there was very little self-steer, but that was with 20psi in them.


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

Jisch said:


> Wow that front Mission tire was hard to get off, I'm not sure I've ever seen a tire that tight.


That's funny, I was ranting and raving about how easy these tires were to get off and on. They're so big with so much room to work with. 
My Nokian 700c studded tires, on the other hand...20 minutes of cursing and a couple bloody knuckles to install a single tire on a bad day. Those are ridiculously hard sidewalls and beads. They come off fairly easily, though. 
I guess different tires cause issues for different people! 
Anyway, I want to hear how those Floaters are. Will you be riding them on snow at all?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Yeah, I'll be riding them in snow, in fact that's one of the reasons I got them, I wanted something more aggressive for the snow. 

I've changed probably a hundred tires (25 years x 4 tires a year, that's probably low), that one was tough, the rim on my bike must be big, because the Floater was tough to get on too.


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

jkbike said:


> That's funny, I was ranting and raving about how easy these tires were to get off and on. They're so big with so much room to work with.
> My Nokian 700c studded tires, on the other hand...20 minutes of cursing and a couple bloody knuckles to install a single tire on a bad day. Those are ridiculously hard sidewalls and beads. They come off fairly easily, though.
> I guess different tires cause issues for different people!
> Anyway, I want to hear how those Floaters are. Will you be riding them on snow at all?


No problem with mine either. I used a bike pump.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Black Friday ad on bikesdirect facebook, looks like the KHS
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bikesdirect/122199864367
It could be the 4 Season Fat Bike
2014 KHS 4 Season Snow Fat Bike


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

puchcobra said:


> Black Friday ad on bikesdirect facebook, looks like the KHS
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bikesdirect/122199864367
> It could be the 4 Season Fat Bike
> 2014 KHS 4 Season Snow Fat Bike


Read back a few (or more) posts... I found that yesterday.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Sorry about that I'll keep a lookout for more BF deals though, its what I do this time of year. My LBS has a FB deal but it still doesn't come close to the Bikes Direct offers.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Took a ride today with the Floaters, vast improvement over the Vee Missions. I would highly recommend swapping them. I ran them at 6psi, split tube tubeless. I never hit a rim, the traction is much better - we're in max leaf season right now, the only thing more slippery than wet leaves is bone dry leaves. I slipped out a lot with Missions, the Floaters were way better - I slipped a little, but not nearly as much. I honestly could not detect any self-steer either.

Awesome ride, I love this bike.

A few pics:


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## fujiteam (Jan 12, 2009)

I raced the Comp today at Cheshire Cross in CT. It is part of the Zanconato single speed series. The course has quite a bit of firm single track and a giant run/ride up. Everyone was cheering for the bike. This was the first real ride I got in, the bike is awesome. Tons of people knew where I got it and were a bit jealous I go it while they are on back order.


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## Gibster (Jun 20, 2013)

I love this thing!









Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 4


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## lewdvig (Aug 25, 2005)

I want a lime green medium if anyone is selling. Waiting until Feb or Mar defeats the purpose for me.


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## mrabe1979 (Sep 15, 2008)

*S.Fork Eagle River, Alaska*


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## Icey101 (Jan 15, 2012)

Had issues with the whole tubeless setup. Blowout yesterday about 12 miles from the house. I wasn't carrying a spare tube, or any way to inflate this tire tubeless. So I ended up having to hike/limp it hit home. I think pressure just got to low then finally blew out. I think I might go back to slimed tubes. Thorns are a huge issue here.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

abelfonseca said:


> This bike has got me really worked up. People seem to be having good experiences with them. I have been fat curious for quite some time now but I could not come to terms with paying 2k por what I percieve is a simple bike, and one that I would not be using that often. At $700, the moto fatty seems totally sensible and "justifiable" with my concience. I think im gonna pull the trigger. Its gonna be a long wait till february but Ill have it in time for easter when the country goes beach crazy.
> 
> I live in Honduras so no snow for me but plenty of caribbean beachline to pedal into the sunset! I might be the first fatbike user the country!


Honduras! Yes! Where do you live? The green version is just fine - everything works great and for a little bit of $ you can upgrade a few key parts.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

Ok trying again with a few photos


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Cool, you got them working. Can you get a few close shots of the fork & stays showing the clearance with the biggie tires?


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Posted on the BikesDirect Facebook page



Gravity Fatbikes.. coming soon!
Expect to pay LESS than you expect to pay.

Deadeye
Bullseye
Deadeye Monster
Bullseye Monster

High quality fatbikes for sand and snow,
For people who don't want to spend a lot of dough!


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Grrrrr, wish they would just put the info out as to specs....


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

They just said that they are releasing the pics tomorrow.


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## newfydog (May 8, 2009)

I love this thread. I found recently it and reviewed the whole thing. Starts out with lots of WoW! are those really that affordable??....moves on to the haters "just some cheap mail order crap", ends up with "waiting for mine to arrive"

I've biked for years, worked in bike shops, raced etc. My wife and I own five Motobecanes, four of them titanium. I know they are good bikes. I broke a frame and they stripped a bike to get me a replacement. I ripped off a hanger and the new one came in three days.
We just added two more to the fleet, Elites, coming in March, just in time to be tired of skiing ready to bike if only all that snow wasn't clogging our trails......


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## linus69 (Oct 16, 2013)

Excellent synopsis of this thread, I have 4 Motobecanes in the family and think very highly of each model. From seeing mine 5 neighbors bought Motobecanes, also all happy with their bikes. I assembled all of these bikes and when there was an issue with a bike they B.D. dealt with it usually with overnight shipping of whatever was needed.


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## newfydog (May 8, 2009)

linus69 said:


> From seeing mine 5 neighbors bought Motobecanes, also all happy with their bikes. I assembled all of these bikes .


I know what you mean linus....I've assembled 12 of the bikes now, our five and seven more for friends. BD ought to give some commission to us.


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

They might be releasing a carbon fatty


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Carbon seems very unlikely for this season. I suspect a Ti version will happen before that.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Well now I wanna now if these are going to be better than the Motobecane. I have a comp on preorder, but if these are better...


Anyone know if BikesDirect will let me switch my order over if I like the new bikes better?


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## suspectsean (Apr 9, 2012)

what a tease


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

trailbrah said:


> View attachment 847718
> 
> 
> what a tease


From just that snapshot, it's looking like the frames will have curved top and down tubes- possibly more like a 907-style frame... just speculating...


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## dbauer (Jul 15, 2009)

Given the names of the Gravity's, I am guessing a couple single speeds and a couple geared bikes. Somewhere around $500.


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## fujiteam (Jan 12, 2009)

Facebook page has a single speed and a geared bike up now. Looks like a schrader valve?


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## linus69 (Oct 16, 2013)

Looks like they both have cable activated disc brakes, not hydraulic. Don`t see drilled rims either.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Rims ARE drilled on both. Look at the full pic towards the bottom of the wheel (White tape on the SS, dark red tape on the geared).

These should slot in below the MB Comp. Maybe $600 for the geared, $500 SS?

Can anybody tell what tires those are? They look smaller than the Missions. 
I am wondering if this is a mid-fat option.


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

29+ lol


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## pucelano (Oct 17, 2009)

trailbrah said:


> View attachment 847718


So far, none of the two bikes shown in Facebook look like this one. Another model coming?


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## jhmeathead (Apr 15, 2013)

For people that dont want to go to their FB

















Is it just me or do the tires/ rims look skinnier. Maybe its just cause the bike is set back in the pics


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

pucelano said:


> So far, none of the two bikes shown in Facebook look like this one. Another model coming?


I just jumped to bd's Facebook page and that image looks like the SS gravity bike photograph.


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## pucelano (Oct 17, 2009)

Then the comparisons to the KHS bike 4 SEASON 3000 | KHS Bicycles were incorrect.
View attachment 846964


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Thx for posting the Picts!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

jhmeathead said:


> Is it just me or do the tires/ rims look skinnier. Maybe its just cause the bike is set back in the pics


29+


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

pucelano said:


> Then the comparisons to the KHS bike 4 SEASON 3000 | KHS Bicycles were incorrect.
> View attachment 846964


Uh, no. They still have 2 models to show.

Their FB post stated 4 new models:
Deadeye
Bullseye
Deadeye Monster
Bullseye Monster

We have seen the first two as of today. I fully expect the "Monsters" to be on full fat tires and use the frame teased in the pic earlier.

These first bikes (Deadeye & Bullseye) are clearly intended to sell for less than the MB FB4 Comp based on smaller tires, cable disc, etc.

My only question is where will the Monsters be positioned relative to the MB lineup?


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Agreed... Components made me switch from a comp to an elite. If comparable with cable brakes I may switch again! Awaiting specs!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

San Pedro Sula, John. The beach is about 45 minutes away! I hope upgraditis doesn't kick in with this one. The way I see it, the specs on the green one more than suffice to have plain good fun. I don't plan on doing any racing, more so for the fact that there probably wont be any other fatbikers to race!

Cheers!


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Here are the Monster Versions with 4" Tires. No prices, specs or detailed released yet.


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Picture of the rear Single Speed Deadeye Monster. Don't really like the look of holes they drilled in the rims. Hopefully that's a pre-production unit.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

that rear dropout is nice and it's a quick realease, it has potential.


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## zcmack (Apr 19, 2012)

puchcobra said:


> that rear dropout is nice and it's a quick realease, it has potential.


what is the deal with the tires?!! happy i got in on the comp when i did. i was worried that if they released something like the KHS i'd be jealous. seems like a decent option for singlespeed.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Looks like they pulled a bait and switch with the teaser pic then. Just plain weird.


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## jdoff (Nov 5, 2013)

It looks like the 3" and 4" frames are the same. Notice that the 4" is a double while the 3" is a triple. I wonder if that means there's chain clearance issues with 4" tires and a triple.

Rims look like they might be the same between 3" and 4", and kind of narrow with those silly 4" spider tires mounted.

I think I'd go with the non-Monster Bullseye (3") and throw some wider tires on, assuming it's priced lower than the Monster (4") version. Those spider tires can't be useful for anything.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

good idea Jdoff, waiting to see those specs cuz I really want BiG Fat Larry's


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## Gibster (Jun 20, 2013)

What? http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/fat-bikes-boris-x9-fatbikes.htm

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 4


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

And there she is Motobecane 2014 Boris X9 Fat Bike

Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Boris X9 SRAM


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

Gibster said:


> What? Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Boris X9 SRAM


Wow is all I have to say. KHS can't be happy about a clone being orderable and cheaper when theirs is nowhere to be found...


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Gotta say I'm intrigued. As I was planning on making the elite I have on order a 2x9. 
As a newbie what are your thoughts on components in comparison? I have some bb7's on my salsa and am quite fond of them. 

Thanks in advance!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

Interesting...


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

boom! in one month BD jumps into the industry as one of the premier fatbike makers.. 

other companies: just stop trying...

love it!


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

Before coming across this thread I never gave fat bikes a thought as I couldn't see spending $1,500+ on something I could only imagine using occasionally. Now with all the options from BD I can see buying one just because. If only they were actually available for the winter...

The Boris looks sick. Much more From what I can see in the picture it looks like swappable/adjustable dropout. Any input on wheels/hubs/tires/cranks in comparison to the moto options.


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## buckfiddious (Nov 14, 2011)

boogman said:


> boom! in one month BD jumps into the industry as one of the premier fatbike makers..
> 
> other companies: just stop trying...
> 
> love it!


Gotta call BS on this. BD is great at doing stuff cheap. More power to them, a lot of fatbike stuff is ridiculously overpriced. BUT, they aren't a fatbike maker. they don't really make anything. Mostly, they source stuff that other people have already designed and slap their logos on it. Again, no problem with them doing that, it's a great way to get inexpensive stuff when you don't have to design it yourself. Give BD credit for what they do- make things available for very low prices. Do not give them credit for what they do not do- making, designing, etc.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

finny1999 said:


> Before coming across this thread I never gave fat bikes a thought as I couldn't see spending $1,500+ on something I could only imagine using occasionally. Now with all the options from BD I can see buying one just because. If only they were actually available for the winter...
> 
> The Boris looks sick. Much more From what I can see in the picture it looks like swappable/adjustable dropout. Any input on wheels/hubs/tires/cranks in comparison to the moto options.


Agreed! Not knowing enough on components I'm a little in the dark.

Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

the rims aren't drilled


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

:thumbsup:Sweet!! Would prefer hydro brakes though.



Kawidan said:


> And there she is Motobecane 2014 Boris X9 Fat Bike
> 
> Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Boris X9 SRAM
> 
> View attachment 848166


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

but like the elite says big hole 32 mm on the rim....


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## RocktonRider (Nov 30, 2010)

puchcobra said:


> the rims aren't drilled


The non-drilled rims wouldn't concern me at all if I was in the market for another fat bike and could wait 3-4 months for it to ship. $900 is a smoking price, especially comparing the frame (or what we think it is) and components to the other offerings out there.

It looks like the BD Boris has the sliders from the 135mm 9:Zero:7 frame, but no split stays. Very interesting...


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

how do you figure it's the 135mm 907 frame? the spec says it's got a 170 rear hub..


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Front 135, rear 170


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

I was just comparing the specs from the KHS and the Boris and they're word for word. Guess whatever was said about the KHS applies here then. For the difference of a few hundred bucks and the same bike I'm not really concerned what the name is on the frame.


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## RocktonRider (Nov 30, 2010)

boogman said:


> how do you figure it's the 135mm 907 frame? the spec says it's got a 170 rear hub..


I just said that the sliders look the same as on the 135mm slider 9:Zero:7 frame: 9:Zero:7 Fat Tire Bikes from Alaska: 135mm Sliding Rear Dropout Frame


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

no it doesn't there is no slider in this khs frame
https://1d8piv1xedxt3k9gin22z4pqb30.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/P1100253.jpg










https://brimages.bikeboardmedia.net...Fatbike-Vee-Rubber-Tubeless-Ready-Tires03.jpg










https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3I7nNvCYUsI/Uh4QH1gae5I/AAAAAAAACfs/mMthK89tcbw/s1600/day1_am-078.jpg


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## RocktonRider (Nov 30, 2010)

Two bolts above the RD hanger... identical to the 907 w/ sliders (except for the split stays). Unless they kept the 907 hanger and just drilled holes to mount it.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

buckfiddious said:


> Gotta call BS on this. BD is great at doing stuff cheap. More power to them, a lot of fatbike stuff is ridiculously overpriced. BUT, they aren't a fatbike maker. they don't really make anything. Mostly, they source stuff that other people have already designed and slap their logos on it. Again, no problem with them doing that, it's a great way to get inexpensive stuff when you don't have to design it yourself. Give BD credit for what they do- make things available for very low prices. Do not give them credit for what they do not do- making, designing, etc.


Totally agree. Awesome on them because I can maybe get my lady on one now... but for myself, ill keep buying them from an actual bike company. Bikes direct should be fine with the clones... until they happen to get too close to a Specialized design and old special Ed sues the **** out of BD and shuts them down


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## jdoff (Nov 5, 2013)

I just did a quick comparison between the components on the Boris X9 ($899.95) and the FB4 Comp ($695.95). Just looking at market value, the stuff on the X9 is worth about $100 more than the stuff on the FB4 Comp. This assigns equal value to frames and forks, and leaves out crankset and BBs (the X9 would have an edge here too, probably).

So I'm trying to figure out if the X9 is cool enough to spring for that remaining $100 gap. The frame is probably lighter and better looking for sure. The fork, at least based on the photos of the red KHS above, would be worth it to me for the braze-ons. Looks like you can load that fork up with cages, racks, and fenders.

Anything I'm missing here? Rims, hubs, bars, stems all seem like a wash to me.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Hoping the fork has the braze ons. That would tip me over. Looks like it does. Going to do some thinking tonight, guessing ill change my order... Again


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Any guesses on how fat of tire the Boris will take? BFL? Snowshoe? Bud? Lou?


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

richulr said:


> Any guesses on how fat of tire the Boris will take? BFL? Snowshoe? Bud? Lou?


I was wondering the same thing.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

The KHS is $1799 and the Boris claims that it's worth $2499
4 SEASON 3000 | KHS Bicycles


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## jdoff (Nov 5, 2013)

Haha, I just noticed the bad photoshop job on the Boris.

KHS 4 SEASON 3000









Motobecane Boris X9









Check out anywhere there would be a KHS sticker on the Boris frame.

Anyone found geometry specs for the Boris/KHS?


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Boris specs are in this link
Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Boris X9 SRAM


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## jdoff (Nov 5, 2013)

puchcobra said:


> Boris
> 5'5" to 5'8" tall
> 26.2 inches
> Medium 17"
> ...


Hoping to find effective top tube, etc. "Frame size" isn't necessarily very useful without the rest.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

That copy paste spec didn't work with the Ipad
anyways I'm game, I too will add hydrolic brakes and BFL


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

jdoff said:


> I just did a quick comparison between the components on the Boris X9 ($899.95) and the FB4 Comp ($695.95). Just looking at market value, the stuff on the X9 is worth about $100 more than the stuff on the FB4 Comp. This assigns equal value to frames and forks, and leaves out crankset and BBs (the X9 would have an edge here too, probably).
> 
> So I'm trying to figure out if the X9 is cool enough to spring for that remaining $100 gap. The frame is probably lighter and better looking for sure. The fork, at least based on the photos of the red KHS above, would be worth it to me for the braze-ons. Looks like you can load that fork up with cages, racks, and fenders.
> 
> Anything I'm missing here? Rims, hubs, bars, stems all seem like a wash to me.


I would think the more likely comparison would be:

MB FB4 Elite at $895.95 vs the Boris X9 at $899.95 since they are essentially the same price.

Frame:
135 offset vs 170 symmetric
Straight TT vs swooping
Fixed dropouts vs sliding dropouts
Diamant ripoff vs 907 ripoff

Fork:
Aluminum vs steel
fender mounts vs anything mounts (maybe?)

Brakes:
Shim 395 Hydro vs Avid BB7 Cable

Wheelset:
100mm Front Rim + 80mm Rear Rim vs 80mm Front & Rear Rims

Drivetrain:
Shim SLX Front Der vs SRAM X7
Shim Alivio Rear Der vs SRAM X9 Type 2 (clutched)
Shim Alivio Shifters vs SRAM X5
3 x 9 vs 2 x 10

Tires:
Same Mission 72tpi Wire bead

Color:
Slightly darker black vs black (Archer reference)

Close call really. If you have a brake or drivetrain preference that may sway you. But either is easily upgraded if you like the other bike/components better. Pick what you like and you don't have to regret the choice either way.

I have to say that I am surprised the Boris is offered at this price. I expected it to come in above the Pro at around $1,100 for two reasons.

1) They already offer a solid bike at the $900 price point. I would think it is best to spread the range rather than over populate one area. But more options is good for BD either way if someone sticks with them.

2) It is SO much cheaper than the KHS for the same bike, anyone would be crazy to get the KHS if they know about the Boris. I feel bad for the guys that buy one and eventually find out about the Boris :madman: 
KHS must be really pissed about this.

That said, the MB and Gravity bikes make for a decent line of bikes with a wide range of prices (assuming the Gravs are in the $400-$700 range).

It will be interesting to see the updated Mongoose and where it falls in relation to the BD range (probably around the Gravity line, say $400-$500?)


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

puchcobra said:


> The KHS is $1799 and the Boris claims that it's worth $2499
> 4 SEASON 3000 | KHS Bicycles


"Compare to $2400 Salsa Surly MukLuk, Pugsley, Moonlander, Kona, Carver Fat bikes"

Their "comparison" applies to all or any competitors that they list. Therefore, not stating the KHS directly is a wiggle wording.

Nothing new for BD, but nobody really "buys" that line anyway.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

puchcobra said:


> the rims aren't drilled


Specs list 32mm holes.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

I meant holes like clown shoes not the spokes, now I think I have to rock the MB FB4 just for that reason. The salesman at the LBS tried to tell me that it weakens the rim but that was because he wanted me to buy the Pug Ops, he didn't want to hear about what I liked.


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

puchcobra said:


> I meant holes like clown shoes not the spokes, now I think I have to rock the MB FB4 just for that reason.


32mm is 1.25 inches. I have yet to see spoke holes that wide.

Edit: Not that I want to talk you out of the FB4. I love mine.


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

jdoff said:


> Haha, I just noticed the bad photoshop job on the Boris.
> 
> KHS 4 SEASON 3000
> 
> ...


Holi$hit.. that is like not even a shop job.. that's like a job done in MS Paint.. see that blotch of color applied to cover up the 4 seasons logo!? lol

Love BD.. but how can they not have anyone who knows even rudimentary shop skills?


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

boogman said:


> Love BD.. but how can they not have anyone who knows even rudimentary shop skills?


It's not surprising when you see how they set up their website. (i.e. 1997 level html & color schemes)

They could use someone with even modest talent to do a major upgrade on the site. Would probably increase sales if they made it easier to read and navigate.


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## jdoff (Nov 5, 2013)

Chader09 said:


> I would think the more likely comparison would be:
> 
> MB FB4 Elite at $895.95 vs the Boris X9 at $899.95 since they are essentially the same price.


I agree, I was kind of just thinking aloud. I'd pretty much settled on the FB4 Comp for the same reasons (wasn't worth it to me for the price jump to the Elite), and wanted to do the same comparison before I clicked "Buy" on one or the other.

One point of correction though, the Boris is 2x10, not 2x9.

Finger now hovering over the button on the Boris page...


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

I think they both share the same Samox Crankset. Just noticed the Boris is a 2X setup.

Also, the Boris has a nicer seat, if that matters to anyone.



jdoff said:


> I just did a quick comparison between the components on the Boris X9 ($899.95) and the FB4 Comp ($695.95). Just looking at market value, the stuff on the X9 is worth about $100 more than the stuff on the FB4 Comp. This assigns equal value to frames and forks, and leaves out crankset and BBs (the X9 would have an edge here too, probably).
> 
> So I'm trying to figure out if the X9 is cool enough to spring for that remaining $100 gap. The frame is probably lighter and better looking for sure. The fork, at least based on the photos of the red KHS above, would be worth it to me for the braze-ons. Looks like you can load that fork up with cages, racks, and fenders.
> 
> Anything I'm missing here? Rims, hubs, bars, stems all seem like a wash to me.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

jdoff said:


> One point of correction though, the Boris is 2x10, not 2x9.


Fixed above, thanks.



jdoff said:


> Finger now hovering over the button on the Boris page...


DO IT


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

jdoff said:


> I agree, I was kind of just thinking aloud. I'd pretty much settled on the FB4 Comp for the same reasons (wasn't worth it to me for the price jump to the Elite), and wanted to do the same comparison before I clicked "Buy" on one or the other.
> 
> One point of correction though, the Boris is 2x10, not 2x9.
> 
> Finger now hovering over the button on the Boris page...


I was in the same boat, had ordered the comp, spoke to some people here who purchased both and was convinced th upgrade to the elite. I'm super close to swapping to the Boris...

Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

Not down with the smallish triangle on the Boris. Much less useful frame bag


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Just posted on the BikesDirect Facebook page.

Bikesdirect
We are getting lots of questions on Fat Bike plans
And we want to answer some here

1) besides the new gravity models, will there be more new original designs? YES
2) will there be higher level models based on the FB4 platform ? YES
3) will there be more Boris versions besides X9? YES
4) will Moto Ti version be made? YES
5) will BD offer fat tires to newsletter members ? YES
6) will BD have chrm-moly fat bikes? YES
7) will Fat Bikes continue to sell out before supply catches up with demand? YES
will it take till November 2014 before all models come in? YES
9) will BD offer fat bike framesets? YES
10) will BD customers get a super deal and great service? Well... We certainly think so!

The friendly staff at Bikesdirect is very excited to offer an ever growing selection of fun, quality, fat bikes at super prices!


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Just saw this on FB too. This will be a very interesting year in fatbike history. BD is looking to cover the entire range of fatbike needs.

I'm most interested in the Ti version. I've never owned a Ti bike and I love the idea of an affordable one with its great ride properties mixed with fat tires & a rigid bike.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Damn it..... How long to wait.... Guess I may just keep swapping! 


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

DANG YOU BD…. I purchased the FB4 Elite mostly due to the color because I didn’t care to much for the green or blue and I really liked the matte black finish, but now that they have the Comp in orange I would have a defiantly went the FB4 Comp. If I had to pick between the FB4 Elite and the Boris X9, I would have bought the Boris due the 170mm rear in hopes it is a centered frame and not an off-set and the SRAM 10spd could be a bonus. I could have used a set of On One Fat Not Fat 29er wheeset with the Boris if it’s a centered frame.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

I like all of these sneak peaks are there any other BikesDirect copycat sites? Nashbar is crazy cheap with 70% off right now (not fatbikes)


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## jdoff (Nov 5, 2013)

Um, hmm. I emailed BD asking for ETT measurements for the Boris X9 and then just noticed that the X9 page now lists it (as well as having a fixed "click here for larger" image). But, um:









Pretty sure those ETT numbers are way off (and coincidentally identical to the standover heights). Or I'm going to need to grow longer arms.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

puchcobra said:


> I like all of these sneak peaks are there any other BikesDirect copycat sites? Nashbar is crazy cheap with 70% off right now (not fatbikes)


BD is king of the roost for affordable fatties right now and looking to build on that by today's post.

Nashbar and Performance will probably add a fatty as some point.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

GoPlayOutside said:


> DANG YOU BD&#8230;. I purchased the FB4 Elite mostly due to the color because I didn't care to much for the green or blue and I really liked the matte black finish, but now that they have the Comp in orange I would have a defiantly went the FB4 Comp. If I had to pick between the FB4 Elite and the Boris X9, I would have bought the Boris due the 170mm rear in hopes it is a centered frame and not an off-set and the SRAM 10spd could be a bonus. I could have used a set of On One Fat Not Fat 29er wheeset with the Boris if it's a centered frame.


That's the price of being an early adopter. At least you have a bike now compared to waiting several months and missing winter (if that matters to you).

I am happy I got in on the first round of bikes. I may upgrade to one of their other bikes in the future. If so, I will just sell my current one locally and be happy I had something to cut my teeth on and learn exactly what I want/need.


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

puchcobra said:


> I like all of these sneak peaks are there any other BikesDirect copycat sites? Nashbar is crazy cheap with 70% off right now (not fatbikes)


Nashbar may have a fat bike of their own before these bikes ship.

The only thing keeping me from ordering one is the "pay now, get your bike in 4 months" thing and the boring black paint job. The red KHS looks soooo much better.
(I really don't get all the black fat bikes)


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## Mr Pink57 (Jul 30, 2009)

I did not see it on the page or I missed it. But what is the BB spacing on this bike?


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Mr Pink57 said:


> I did not see it on the page or I missed it. But what is the BB spacing on this bike?


Crankset: SAMOX 36Alloy /22 AlloyBCD:104/64 BB:100mm EB2401 Chain lIne:68
Bottom Bracket: SAMOX External Bearing 100mm
(Not sure if that answers your question)

Per: Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Boris X9 SRAM


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Cost Accountant now says we can do these Gravity Fat Bikes --

Deadeye $399
Deadeye Monster $449
Bullseye $449... http://fb.me/VfGDsiGu


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Still really need to know if bfl's or snowshoes will fit on the Boris. Gotta decide if I want to switch my order. Since it looks like it's based on a 907 frame, I figured someone might know.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

I know this is bad but I'll just buy a wallybike til these are available.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

*From the BD FB page....*

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bikesdirect/122199864367

:thumbsup: Patiently waiting on a Ti FatBike  Saving my ducets now.

"We are getting lots of questions on Fat Bike plans
And we want to answer some here

1) besides the new gravity models, will there be more new original designs? YES
2) will there be higher level models based on the FB4 platform ? YES
3) will there be more Boris versions besides X9? YES
4) will Moto Ti version be made? YES
5) will BD offer fat tires to newsletter members ? YES
6) will BD have chrm-moly fat bikes? YES
7) will Fat Bikes continue to sell out before supply catches up with demand? YES
will it take till November 2014 before all models come in? YES
9) will BD offer fat bike framesets? YES
10) will BD customers get a super deal and great service? Well... We certainly think so!

The friendly staff at Bikesdirect is very excited to offer an ever growing selection of fun, quality, fat bikes at super prices!"


----------



## boogman (May 21, 2012)

puchcobra said:


> I know this is bad but I'll just buy a wallybike til these are available.


damn.. walmart + BD.. you'll get a lot of $ht for leaving LBS out of that equation.. lol


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## GoldDust (Oct 24, 2013)

Just wondering what the benefit of Ti would be, might save a small amount of weight but at major cost?

Would you notice anything in ride?

I have one on order, but the new one looks interesting, sound like MB have no problems with you switching?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

For me, it is about durability and the ride quality of Ti. I currently have an Alu Specialized rigid 29er and it serves me well. I am not changing it out any time soon...but if I were to replace it, and the funds were available, I would go Ti. Just a personal preference. When I bought the SpecialEd, I didn't have the funds to get Ti.

I am looking for something new and different from my current rig. A fatbike fits the bill. BD makes Ti "attainable" in terms of cost for someone on a budget like me to get in the fray. There is good entry level value Ti-wise. I was reading the MTBR article on the Moots 29+ bike and love the idea but couldn't in good conscience drop nearly $4k on a frame/fork for a bike . Not judging, just not my situation.

I tend to do a lot of research upfront and keep what I buy for a long time so Ti makes sense that way too. I am a "set it an forget it" person once I dial in what I like. The idea of getting a solid frame to work from and then changing/upgrading components as they wear out works for me. Lower entry level cost is a plus.



GoldDust said:


> Just wondering what the benefit of Ti would be, might save a small amount of weight but at major cost?
> 
> Would you notice anything in ride?
> 
> I have one on order, but the new one looks interesting, sound like MB have no problems with you switching?


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

Damn $450 for a fatbike that's 90% the experience of a new pugsley complete for $1k less.. Need to sell my pugs ASAP


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## jdoff (Nov 5, 2013)

I got a reply from BD saying they don't have the full geometry for the Boris X9 from the manufacturer yet, but that it's the same as the KHS 4-SEASON 3000 and they don't have it listed on their site either. They'll update the product page when they have it.

Doesn't sound like they've gotten their hands on a demo, though KHS certainly has from the earlier photos of the red one(s).


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Bit the bullet and switched from the elite to the Boris. Figure what the heck, only a few weeks diff on delivery! Having only ridden a pugs I'll acclimate to any type of bike! If not can always sell it later!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

For me, I would like Ti for it's dampening qualities. Weight reduction is nice, but more of a bonus. Ti works so well for rigid frames, I think it would be the icing on the cake of fat tires for just a touch more comfort.

Plus, a raw Ti frame is just fricken cool to look at.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Agree with the wow factor of raw TI


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

I would buy a TI Fat Bike if the price was right.... wonder what the specs on the frame will be and if BD will sell the frame only.


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## GoldDust (Oct 24, 2013)

I was just wondering with those big tires whether you could feel the difference? Durability and looks yes.

I like the look of the X9 more and it is 'just' $200. Walked the dog today he likes the snow and there are drifts a plenty, but to much for my current bike.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

GoPlayOutside said:


> I would buy a TI Fat Bike if the price was right.... wonder what the specs on the frame will be and if BD will sell the frame only.


FB post today said they plan to sell framesets. We don't know which ones, but it looks promising in general.

I'm interested to see their design. It seems like most of their other Ti bikes (Road, CX, MTB) are "original". They don't seem to be clones like the current round of fatbikes they are selling. I expect it would be similar to their HT MTB's but rear end spacing and offsets could be open for them.


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

I have a FB4 Elite on order. I could switch to the Boris.

I think I'll stay with the FB4 Elite, unless there's something that I'm completely missing, and hopefully you guys can offer a bit of advice.

Here's my list of reasoning:

1) I like the simple frame design of the FB4. Easier for triangle bags etc... and just like the straight tube/DJ look rather than hydroformed when it comes to HT bikes. 34" inseam, so the slight additional clearance afforded by the Boris really doesn't make a difference for me.

2) Aluminum vs. chromo fork i don't think really makes a difference to me. For me this is a 99% winter snow use bike. I may take it on the very occasional trail in the shoulder seasons. Normally with a DJ or HT frame, ridden on dirt/trails/tech I'd love the chromo and want it full frame, but I don't think chromo vs. aluminum makes as much of a difference because the compliance of chromo/vibration of aluminum is largely put to rest by the giant squishy low pressure tires, and the fact that I'll be riding primarily on snow.

3) The 2x10 drivetrain; I have it on my XC and Freeride bikes. I run 2x9 on my burly-commuter/cyclocross and don't really see the need for 2x10 for my purposes on the snow bike. 90% of the time, in the snow, I'm going to be plodding along in rolling hills and mountainous terrain at very low speeds. I can climb and descend plenty fast on my 2x9 burly-commuter/cyclocross setup. Plus I have a bunch of 2x9 spare parts I can use, if necessary, and 2x9 parts are plentiful and cheap. The clutch x9 that comes with the 2x10 is nice, I run clutches on my XC and Freeride bikes. But again, plodding along in snow isn't going to make my derailleur go crazy banging on ****, the same as it would on tech trails. I have a few 2x9, X9 rear derailleurs kicking around that I could use when the stock one dies.

4) The 170mm centered spacing on the Boris is really the only thing that has me intrigued. The 135mm (21mm) offset on the FB4 is a bit limiting as far as ultimate tire size, although some have put 4.8" Buds and Lous on the FB4 with little problem. I'm likely going to replace the tires with a 120 tpi 4.7 or 4.8 tire and q-tubes, to drop some rotational weight. I'm okay with that, my ego isn't attached to having a 5" tire, or the lightest bike in the parking lot. The FB4 135mm 21mm offset rear spacing, means more dish in the wheel/rim/hub, but again, I don't see that being a problem, as I'm not going to be hucking this thing or ripping over tech. I have other bikes for that. The 170mm centered would mean a stronger wheel, but I don't think it will make that much of a difference for my intended use. The bonus is that 135mm hubs are dirt cheap and plentiful.

5) I was going to put BB7's on my snowbike, as I want simplicity, so score one for the Boris. But I have some BB7's lying around to replace the hydros that come with the FB4 and can sell, or put to other use, the hydros that come with the FB4. So that's really a wash for me.

I want a cheap, simple to maintain, robust, SNOW bike that will be ridden in SNOW 99% of the time, and at a plodding pace, through rolling and mountainous terrain, likely as a mode of transport while taking the dog for a run.

Given my specifics, is there a glaring reason to switch to the Boris that I'm missing?


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

iscariot said:


> I have a FB4 Elite on order. I could switch to the Boris.
> 
> I think I'll stay with the FB4 Elite, unless there's something that I'm completely missing, and hopefully you guys can offer a bit of advice.
> 
> ...


Great analysis iscariot - I follow your logic. The SRAM components are intriguing, but 10 speed wears out SO much faster than 9 speed - particularly when it gets muddy / wet. The Bud and Lou fit absolutely fine on the FB4 and I see no issues with the rear offset like you said. Would be interesting to see frame and component weight differences between the two but suspect it is a bit of a wash.

One of these days I'll get around to showing pictures of the Bud and Lou with clearances.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

*Elite - fully equipped*







Ok - its hard to take pics of these relatively tight clearances, but heres' my modified elite:

- Surly Bud and Lou
- carbon bar and stem 
- carbon spacers
- light seat
- Schwalbe F13 tubes

Its weighing in at 34lbs with pedals.

the clearance from the chain in the smallest gear with the Lou is at least 3/8" and in front is about 1/4" with 9lbs in the rear and 7.5lbs up front which feels optimal for trail riding and cross racing. In the snow will probably ride about 5lbs rear and 3.5 lbs up front... squishy but FAT!


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

Thanks for the reply and the pics john. 


A few questiins though...I've seen photos of the bud and lou fitting, but they are all on bikes hanging in stands.

How much does the clearance change with the weight of a rider on it?

Is there still clearance at 5# pressure with a rider?

What pressure do you have to run to get clearance with a 4.8" bud or lou with a rider on the bike?


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

iscariot said:


> I have a FB4 Elite on order. I could switch to the Boris.
> 
> I think I'll stay with the FB4 Elite, unless there's something that I'm completely missing, and hopefully you guys can offer a bit of advice.
> 
> ...


for you I totally agree, not worth switching. I chose to switch as I prefer the BB7's and did not have a set laying around and would have to purchase them. 2x10 I like the additional granny gear for myself and was honestly going to drop the big ring on the Elite so thats another plus for me personally.

Frame style is a wash for me, would be happy with either. Until further pictures are out there Im unsure if I will need to drill the rims or not, tires I was going to swap regardless of the bike I ended up, same with tubes.

As I am bike poor the drivetrain of the Boris fits me better for what I want to do. I do have a FS bike I picked up used this last summer so have had a lot of fun with it, but the bug bit me and want to go fat. Anticipate riding the Fat more than the FS this coming year and want to set it up to be able to do so.

Think it is all (like everything else) personal preference! Glad this option came out for me as it adressed the changes I was looking at doing for the Elite.

I do not have the need for a 5" tire so if I am "limited" to a 4" I am ok with that personally!


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

I've seen a couple other post of FB4's running a Lou and they shaved off the outer knobs to keep it from rubbing under rider weight.


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

Awesome. Thanks for the replies GPO.


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

iscariot said:


> Thanks for the reply and the pics john.
> 
> A few questiins though...I've seen photos of the bud and lou fitting, but they are all on bikes hanging in stands.
> 
> ...


Hi Iscariot - I'm 190lbs and have run as low as 4.5 in the rear and 4.0 up front with no rubbing at all - honestly in the rear its 3/8 to 1/2 inch clearance except for the chain which is more like 1/4 inch in the granny gear. My experience suggests the tire grows with *more* pressure not less and the "squash" under low pressure rebounds before heading up toward the chain or stays, so less pressure creates more space not less. On the front tire, if I put 10lbs in the "nubbies" start hitting, and over 12 lbs the actual tread starts to hit the fork - but no reason to run that kind of pressure. (I pumped it to 20 lbs to seat it and could not even turn the wheel.)

One thing that for sure I've experienced is that the rear needs more pressure than the front - likely for 2 reasons, 1) the rear has more of your weight on it, and 2) the 100m rim in front creates a larger diameter profile and the tire is less bouncy than the rear under low pressure - the rear is rounder and taller, the front is wider and flatter. When I rode at 4.5 the other night I was bouncing with each pedal stroke which was somewhat annoying.

Also for what it is worth I took off the large chainring, but ended up putting in back on because I needed it for downhills and cross races (and iceman) where I use it quite a bit.

Last thing - I'm 5'11 w/ 32 inseam and put on a 400m post and I have that maxed in order for it to fit me (this is on the medium) - I probably would have bought the large...


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## jdoff (Nov 5, 2013)

Just noticed Boris X9 ETT measurements were added to the product page.









Looks more correct this time.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

johnkcoyle said:


> Hi Iscariot - I'm 190lbs and have run as low as 4.5 in the rear and 4.0 up front with no rubbing at all - honestly in the rear its 3/8 to 1/2 inch clearance except for the chain which is more like 1/4 inch in the granny gear. My experience suggests the tire grows with *more* pressure not less and the "squash" under low pressure rebounds before heading up toward the chain or stays, so less pressure creates more space not less. On the front tire, if I put 10lbs in the "nubbies" start hitting, and over 12 lbs the actual tread starts to hit the fork - but no reason to run that kind of pressure. (I pumped it to 20 lbs to seat it and could not even turn the wheel.)
> 
> One thing that for sure I've experienced is that the rear needs more pressure than the front - likely for 2 reasons, 1) the rear has more of your weight on it, and 2) the 100m rim in front creates a larger diameter profile and the tire is less bouncy than the rear under low pressure - the rear is rounder and taller, the front is wider and flatter. When I rode at 4.5 the other night I was bouncing with each pedal stroke which was somewhat annoying.
> 
> ...


the casing makes a huge difference. 27tpi expands more than 120 tpi. at least as far as I can tell. This means for a given pressure, it's harder to bottom out the 120 tpi. for me that means I can run lower pressure with the 120 without damage to sidewalls


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

johnkcoyle said:


> Hi Iscariot - I'm 190lbs and have run as low as 4.5 in the rear and 4.0 up front with no rubbing at all - honestly in the rear its 3/8 to 1/2 inch clearance except for the chain which is more like 1/4 inch in the granny gear. My experience suggests the tire grows with *more* pressure not less and the "squash" under low pressure rebounds before heading up toward the chain or stays, so less pressure creates more space not less. On the front tire, if I put 10lbs in the "nubbies" start hitting, and over 12 lbs the actual tread starts to hit the fork - but no reason to run that kind of pressure. (I pumped it to 20 lbs to seat it and could not even turn the wheel.)
> 
> One thing that for sure I've experienced is that the rear needs more pressure than the front - likely for 2 reasons, 1) the rear has more of your weight on it, and 2) the 100m rim in front creates a larger diameter profile and the tire is less bouncy than the rear under low pressure - the rear is rounder and taller, the front is wider and flatter. When I rode at 4.5 the other night I was bouncing with each pedal stroke which was somewhat annoying.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the details. I'm 5'11" 185# with a 34" inseam and little arms...think T-Rex. I'm going to have to get a 400mm seat post for sure. I've always run my bikes a bit small to accomodate my short torso and arms...the 17" has the top tube length I want.

As for the tires...I understand about the squish factor staying near the ground, I guess what I'm wondering about is the either rim or rubber flex laterally in the rim or the tire sidewall that could create rubbing at low psi. But you answered that with your weight specs and psi's listed.

I'm thinking I'd like to run 7 to 9 psi to minimize the pedal bounce. Aside from the bud and lou I'm looking into the Snowshoe 4.7" tire, which would give a bit more clearance.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

This might be a little off topic, but since BD is putting out low cost fat bikes left and right it seems and with the release of brand name carbon fat bikes, I wonder how soon before we start seeing Chinese carbon fat bike frames hit the Ebay


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I asked the question about carbon fatbikes over in the 29er forum in the "chinese carbon" thread. I got no response, that would be cool though!


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## newfydog (May 8, 2009)

johnkcoyle said:


> On the front tire, if I put 10lbs in the "nubbies" start hitting, and over 12 lbs the actual tread starts to hit the fork - but no reason to run that kind of pressure. (I pumped it to 20 lbs to seat it and could not even turn the wheel.)
> ...


I wonder if a massive tire like that will stretch a bit with age, and after a year or so they will rub. Maybe like a fancy sew-up, you'll want to let the air out between rides!


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## wilburspud (Sep 23, 2013)

I cancelled my order for the 19" FB4 and ordered the Boris X9 in a 21" frame. I'm 6'4" so my primary reason was for the larger frame. I was a little leery about the 19" so I am very happy to have an affordable 21" fatbike available! Secondary reason is I am used to using 2x10 drive train over the 3x9. Both of my other bikes are both 2x10 (1 road and 1 mtb). Paypal has already sent me a notice my credit card is being refunded. It was all very easy. I hope the Boris is as well engineered as the FB4.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Interesting.... They told me they would just transfer the order and send email confirmation.


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## wilburspud (Sep 23, 2013)

I just did a cancel of the FB4 and new order for the X9, rather than transfers. Looks like they can easily do it both ways!


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Good deal, looking forward to getting it! Trying to forget about it so I won't get so anxious. Hoping not too many new options come out so I won't try and switch again!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

Bd just announced they are coming out with 29+ bikes! Saweeet!


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

boogman said:


> Bd just announced they are coming out with 29+ bikes! Saweeet!


And with a tire w/ actual knobs.(Facebook)

Pedaling


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I love my FB-4, even more than I thought I would, but I gotta ding it a little for that stupid Alivio rear derailleur. I will be putting an XT or SLX on (have to make the decision on whether my RIP gets the SLX or the Fatty does), but that Alivio is not fit for real mountain bike use - the chain is flying all over the place, there's so little tension its stupid. I guess they are made for bike path kind of riding...and this has nothing to do with the chain length, I took few links out, its just poorly designed.


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

Jisch said:


> I love my FB-4, even more than I thought I would, but I gotta ding it a little for that stupid Alivio rear derailleur. I will be putting an XT or SLX on (have to make the decision on whether my RIP gets the SLX or the Fatty does), but that Alivio is not fit for real mountain bike use - the chain is flying all over the place, there's so little tension its stupid. I guess they are made for bike path kind of riding...and this has nothing to do with the chain length, I took few links out, its just poorly designed.


One of the advantages of the pro model (though I'd be lying if I said that's why I got it - the cheaper ones were sold out in my size.)

I love the bike too, it's a lot of fun to ride. My biggest issue is that when bike-sploring I tend to be overconfident, and end up in the middle of a tangled mess of underbrush trying to push through. No damage to the drive-train from these shenanigans so far though.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Usually XT is as low as I will go on my bikes and, after using an SLX when I needed a quick fix, I realized that choice was mostly marketing. I don't see a huge difference between XT and SLX in functionality. There is a huge difference between SLX and Alivio, its more than just marketing.


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## Coloradogoose (Jan 17, 2013)

I've had great luck with SLX and even Deore. Making sure the derailleur hanger is straight matters more than jumping one model in derailleurs. I'd rather run an SLX Shadow+ on a straight hanger than an XTR on a bent one.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

I upgraded my rear derailleur with a XT M772 9sp Shadow medium cage for two reason the main one being all the chain slap I was getting on rough terrain and since I’m running 2x9 I wanted a medium cage length. The chain slapping has gone away and shifting is much crisper over the Alivio. While I was at it I went ahead and added a new XT HG93 chain and XT M770 11-34 cassette which happens to be 175g lighter than HG cassette (431g) at came with the Elite.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I already switched the cassette, I have a new chain, but I figured I'd wait to wear this one out first

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

For anyone considering the FB-4 elite (black one) I thought I'd put together my thoughts after riding it for a month or so. Its a great bike I've enjoyed every ride I've had on it. I am riding it like a regular mountain bike on dirt so far, I'll take it on snow too, but that's not the sole reason I bought it. I still think its a great deal, but there are some parts that definitely need to be swapped out (If you are going to ride it more like a cruiser and only in snow or the beach, this next part may not be applicable):

tires - the Vee Missions are ok from a traction standpoint, but they have really bad self-steer. I didn't realize how bad until I got the Floaters. 

cassette - I suppose you don't HAVE to change it, but the one that's on it is HEAVY

tubes - I bought lightweight tubes for it, but then I switched to split-tube tubeless. I'm having some issues with burping, I may need to go back to tubes - but get rid of those huge tubes that came with it! 

rear derailleur - today was my first ride on a SLX derailleur and it made a huge difference in the chain slapping and auto-shifting when going down technical trails. The paddle shifters worked great with the new derailleur. 

bash ring - I'll never use the big ring, so this was a no brainer. 

I think that's it. I suspect I'll need to swap out the headset at some point, but its working fine for now. I should mention that the rear hub must not have many engagement points, I notice it, but it doesn't bother me at all. I find the saddle perfectly acceptable


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

^^^ I am glad you are having fun. I can't help but wonder, in retrospect, how many people would have just bought a better appointed bike to begin with. I understand the entry point was attractive, but once you start swapping out and upgrading, maybe it isn't a cost effective decision.
I am seeing barely used Pugsleys selling well below a thousand, and a good friend just bought a Mukluk, minus wheels, for $650.
Curious as to people's thoughts


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

I chose the Pro model to get the away from the need to upgrade as much.

I had to add a seat post for more extension, decent pedals, and I got Floaters for better snow traction. I ditched the big ring for a bash.

I swapped grips and seat for preference. Otherwise, I am stock and loving the quality for the price. I have less than $1300 into it.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

^^^ I've thought about this a bit as I've been trying to steer friends into buying fat bikes. Sometimes, I think picking up a used Muk or Pugs is the way to go, but I've assembled one of these bikes and have had a couple of friends ride them with great success, satisfaction and big smiles, so what (or who) is to say what is a "better appointed" bike?

I'd like to see some barely used Pugsleys selling for "well below a thousand" (I don't mean this to sound confrontational, I sincerely mean it). I keep a pretty close track on e-bay and the Colorado CL listings, and I SOMETIMES see a _used_ Pugsley going for what I would call "around a thousand," but that usually means $1100-1200 on the way low end. So, maybe after some negotiating, you can get a seller down to $1000, but probably not for a "barely" used one. So, now you've got a used Pugsley for about the same as you can get one of the MB bikes (the Elite). As for the Mukluk, the wheels on one of these bad boys is often as much as a frame/fork. You can easily spend $500 on a set of holy rolling daryls, but even for something less blingy, or a stock set of RD's from a Pugs or low-level Muk (often what's available on the used market), they're going to run you a few hundred, then there are tires, tubes, rim strips, etc- your buddy who bought the Muk is likely going to be in for over a grand when all is said and done. But for either the Muk or the "well below a thousand" Pugs, let's say you come out the same price as the Elite: $900. Chances are, you'll still need some upgrades depending on the terrain. Very few of the entry level fat bikes come with tiers that you would want to ride on aggressive terrain or in deep snow- maybe good for commuting or sand or relatively flat, hard packed dirt. Some pugs and some Muks come with twist/ grip shifters, which are really nice if you're riding in cold with pogies or gloves and the like. Any bike might need a new derailleur or headset somewhere down the line. Not to mention that a _brand new_ Pugs or Muk in the entry-level editions weigh a bit more than these MB bikes do out of the box. Oh- and they're not used- they're brand-spanking new! Overall, I think they're a great deal. It's not to say that you couldn't find something used that wouldn't be comparable and might be worth $100 more or so, but you're likely going to do some tweaks/ upgrades/ swap outs on almost any bike you get, so that seems a fairly negligible factor (unless it's A LOT of tweaks/ upgrades, etc).


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

A lot of people upgrade parts on Pugsleys & Mukluks right away too, so it is hard to say people should have just bought a better bike from the start instead of upgrading. 

For me, I picked up the FB4 Comp ($695) and rode it stock for a few weeks to get a feel for the bikes strengths and weaknesses. I decided to upgrade the Acera drivetrain on the fat bike as it was marginal at best. I had a SLX RD and 10-speed cassette sitting around after upgrading my race bike, so all I bought was a new Deore 10-speed shifter ($13) and a HG-74 10-speed chain($25). That put me in for $733 with a SLX/Deore drivetrain.

Since then, I have added a RaceFace bashguard ($21), ODI Ruffian Grips ($22), and a set of 27TPI Nates ($140). I am very happy with the bike in its current form, especially considering that I only have $916 invested and I am running the parts that I want. The only other things I might upgrade down the road are the brakes to BB7's, front shifter to Deore or SLX, and the saddle; so we are looking at another $100-150 tops, which will put my final build price just over $1000. Not a bad price for a well equipped fat bike if you ask me!


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I am 100% satisfied. 

I'd have to add up what I have into it, but let's say its $1200 (its probably less and would definitely be less if I sold the parts I took off). I haven't weighed it, but based on what I read here it should be around 34 or 35lbs - no way I'd get an equally weighted bike for that price. 

I went into this thing with eyes wide open, I knew I'd be spending some cash. Two things that caught me off guard - 1) the rear derailleur, I had no idea how bad the Alivio would be, I knew it wouldn't be like an XT, but I figured it would be passable (its not), and 2) the brakes, I figured I'd be swapping those right away, they are pretty good, I see no reason to swap them, I have some BB7's if I need to go there. 

I know its not a blingy bike, but it works great and I love riding it. If I had a lot of money to spend I'd probably buy something better, but I don't, its a really good value for the money. 

I really think by throwing a little money into it you get a good bike out the other end.


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## sbsbiker (Dec 1, 2007)

I got the elite, because the pro didn't spec the parts I wanted either, so why buy better parts if you plan on eventually upgrading. I got a set of 45N Dillingers, (front studded), a set of flat pedals from my toy box, needed a longer seat post, Ritchey Comp, and cut down the bars. The 45N tires made a huge difference in the snow, I need the lighter tubes. We plan on replacing my wife's xc bike this spring, and I will steal her XT brakes and shifters/cogs when she retires her current bike. This Motofat is super fun, I rode 2hours of snowpacked trails this afternoon! Bring on more snow!


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## pucelano (Oct 17, 2009)

This is the third bike in my garage (Trek 6000 hardtail and Trek Madone 3.1) and, like many others, I had looked into other fat bikes, but couldn't see myself spending upwards of $1500. When I saw the price in the FB4 Elite, and read all that Espen W had to say about the bike he helped designed, I took the plunge. I couldn't be happier.
The bike is mostly stock, with only a new seatpost (400mm), pedals, and old WTB saddle. Shifting with the Alivio rd is fine, and I'll keep it for the time being. Brakes are surprisingly powerful. Tires have been great for the trails. I hope to ride the bike as much as I can this winter, and replace parts when they break down.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

I agree with Jisch… I’m 100% satisfied, even with the purchase of my Elite and the upgrades I’m sitting at $1375, that’s still cheaper than the On One Fatty which I was thinking about buying before I saw the FB4’s. I upgraded some of the drive train because I’m running 2x9 and wanted a medium cage RD to get rid of the extra chain length and chain slapping, the shifting is a lot smoother now too. For the tires I went with a BFL/Knard combo it seemed the best for my needs.. I wanted fast rolling tires for single track and I after a few rides I feel I made the right choice. The BFL rolls over everything and the Knard has enough traction for those uphill climbs, roots, leaves loose dirt and still rolls fast. I havent felt any self-steering with the BFL. Possible upgrades in the future might be a rear BFL and carbon seatpost/handle bar set, but for now I completely happy.

XT RD medium cage
XT Chain
XT Cassette
BFL 120tpi front
Knard 3.8 120tpi rear
Blue Surly rim tape
QT lightweight tubes
Blue Salsa seatpost clamp
Race Face 100mm BB (not because I wanted to upgrade it, somehow I got water in the drive side bearings


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

I have the Elite, and it's been a lot of fun so far, the only changes I have made, have been cosmeic. Everything works as it should, so I'm not regretting my choice. The only real upgrade I would like to do at this time would be to order a set of floaters. 

However, customizing and upgrading, are things people like do no matter what bike they start off with. No matter how much they spend, It's all apart of the experience.


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## cm11599ps (Nov 27, 2013)

So I just spent a lot of time browsing this thread but I didn't get the info I was looking for. I'm not a big time, serious rider but I have a Raleigh hybrid, a GT MTB, and a POS beater. 

I do a LOT of camping at the local ocean beaches from April-October. I'd love to get a fat bike to ride on the sand. The sand where I go is usually very soft with a lot of ruts because trucks are allowed on the beach. The sand does get smoother and harder down by the water when the tide is out. I'd love to be able to ride the beach.

I don't recall one person in this thread saying they have ridden this BD fatty at the beach. I did see one go along a river bank but that's not like what we have here. This bike would stictly be used for beach sand riding as long as it's capable of beach sand riding. Your thoughts?

Also, I'm only about 5'6" and the BD page says I should look at the small 15" bike. Does that sound correct?


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

gonna keep asking this. Someone has to have an opinion:

Still really need to know if bfl's or snowshoes will fit on the Boris. Gotta decide if I want to switch my order. Since it looks like it's based on a 907 frame, I figured someone might know.


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## bsgerig (Dec 9, 2009)

Check the KHS website. The Boris is almost certainly the same as the KHS. Same geo and build kit but $800 bucks cheaper.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

I can weigh in on buying a used Pugs vs new Moto/Bikes Direct bike. I bought my 2008 Pugs used about a year ago for $950, I didn't do much to it, besides change the tires and tubes, bars and stem. I also drilled the Large Marge rims. The bike already had trigger shifters and a bash ring, 2x9 setup, exactly what I wanted. I don't see the Pugs really dropping much in value than what I paid.

I bought the Moto Comp for $695, and I've since changed the tubes (tires are next), added a bash ring, changed bars and seatpost. The rear der. is fine so far, and so are the brakes. Since these bikes are selling at such a low price to begin with, and they will only be adding more models, I think in a year we will see used ones pop up for $500. I'm fine with that.

I guess what I'm saying is that for me, either bike was a good choice. I can totally understand how bad it sucks when you want a fatbike and there are none available, even used. It is not easy to find a used Pugs or Muk for under $1k, but if you do find one, buy it. I don't think you can go wrong. Unless you get one of the Surly frames that is prone to cracking.


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## unlearn (Nov 27, 2013)

I was told that the hubs on the pro model have sealed bearings and the hubs on the elite are loose ball bearings... I have also heard that the hubs on both models are identical.

Can someone who has opened up their hubs clear this up for me?


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## gravitylover (Sep 1, 2009)

cm11599ps said:


> Also, I'm only about 5'6" and the BD page says I should look at the small 15" bike. Does that sound correct?


Yes


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

richulr said:


> gonna keep asking this. Someone has to have an opinion:
> 
> Still really need to know if bfl's or snowshoes will fit on the Boris. Gotta decide if I want to switch my order. Since it looks like it's based on a 907 frame, I figured someone might know.


I would almost for surely say the snowshoes will fit as they aren't quite measuring the stated 4.7". BFL measures a good actual 4.5" so that might be more questionable. Product Spotlight ? Vee Tire Snowshoe 26 x 4.7 | FAT-BIKE.COM

To be safe though you could go with the Fatback Sterling 4.2".  Fatback Sterling Tire | FAT-BIKE.COM


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

unlearn said:


> I was told that the hubs on the pro model have sealed bearings and the hubs on the elite are loose ball bearings... I have also heard that the hubs on both models are identical.
> 
> Can someone who has opened up their hubs clear this up for me?


This was confirmed by individual here who purchased one of each. Convinced me to upgrade along with their experience that the components were slightly better overall.

Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## Gibster (Jun 20, 2013)

Finally got mine out on the snow today! 









Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 4


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

unlearn said:


> I was told that the hubs on the pro model have sealed bearings and the hubs on the elite are loose ball bearings... I have also heard that the hubs on both models are identical.
> 
> Can someone who has opened up their hubs clear this up for me?


I thought someone had posted pictures of loose ball bearings in a hub in this thread, but when I opened up mine (19" Elite from the second shipment) to see if they could use some lube... lo and behold, cartridge bearings! So, maybe something changed between first and second shipment, or maybe they are not consistent on the hubs.


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## iCollector (Nov 14, 2012)

i am eying the Boris real hard. My only concern are the rims. I'd rather have drilled, lighter rims. Looks like they are not, and I'd rather not spring for wheels if I don't have to. On another general note - does anyone miss not having a triple front? I rode a used Pugs but the fit wasn't quite right and returned it. I do plan to use this all over, including on the road, so I wonder about that 2x9... And could I upgrade that to a 2x11!?

Thanks All!


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Drilling out the rims isn’t hard to do, it just can be a little time consuming so I wouldn’t let that detour you from going with the Boris. I purchased the FB4 Elite which came 3x9 and the first thing I did was remove the large 44t chain ring because I knew I would never use it, it’s now 2x9 .. 32/22 front and 11/34 rear. The Boris comes 2x10.. 36/22 front and 11/36 rear is fine for anything you want to ride.. road, single track and snow. If the Boris was available at the same time I purchased my Elite I would have probably went with the Boris only because it has a 170mm rear wheel in hopes it is a centered frame, I believe zero off-set wheels are stronger than off-set wheels and I think the Elites rear wheel has a 12.5deg off-set, plus the Boris is already 2x10. But that said I have taken my Elite over some pretty rough single track and haven’t have any issues with the rear wheel at all…


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Boris is 2x10 and the bigger sprocket is 36t as opposed to 32 on the fb4's with a 36 tooth granny as opposed to 34 on the fb4. Better overall in my opinion. Plus I like cable disc brakes. Picture shows no cutouts on the rims but specs show 32mm so thats to be seen. Worse case ill drill them.
So for ME this was awesome as I was planning on replacing brakes, removing big sprocket and it just fits my likes/needs better!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## GoldDust (Oct 24, 2013)

The KHS says double wall drilled HL 80, if it is the same rime what does that mean?


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm thinking switching my order from the fb4 to the boris. not sure yet though. I'll use mine in the winter but also more often just trail riding. I would like the ability to put on bigger tires. I just wonder how fat I can go on the Boris? tough decision to make


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

How is the Hylix carbon seatpost holding up? I was thinking about buy a Hylix carbon seatpost and handlebar.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Just thinking about this concept of "is the bike worth it?" - take a look at this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/beargrease-has-landed-889037.html even on a $3,500 bike people swap stuff. I guess we all have upgradeitis.


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

I think you are probably right in many cases. Although, I have had my Pugsley now for 6 months , bought it like new for about a grand, ridden several hundred miles already, and have yet to change a thing. With other bikes I have, but being this was my first fat bike, I would rather RIDE and then decide where improvements can be made, or if they are needed.


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## coot271 (Sep 15, 2010)

How about a steel fatty? Anyone heard of that possibility?? I dunno if Mike from BD still looks through these theads, but that would be of great interest. Anyone else??

sorry, misspelled "threads"


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> How about a steel fatty? Anyone heard of that possibility?? I dunno if Mike from BD still looks through these theads, but that would be of great interest. Anyone else??
> 
> sorry, misspelled "threads"


From the facebook:



> We are getting lots of questions on Fat Bike plans
> And we want to answer some here
> 
> 1) besides the new gravity models, will there be more new original designs? YES
> ...


"chrm-moly" refers to fancy surly style stainless steel fatbikes.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

My ride this morning was awesome. Love this bike.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

randomsample said:


> "chrm-moly" refers to fancy surly style stainless steel fatbikes.


Surly does not make stainless steel bikes. They make traditional chrome-moly steel frames like most other builders and that is what BD will offer too.


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

Chader09 said:


> Surly does not make stainless steel bikes. They make traditional chrome-moly steel frames like most other builders and that is what BD will make too.


Look up what goes into high grade stainless.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

randomsample said:


> Look up what goes into high grade stainless.


What's your point?

Stainless steel and chrome-moly are very different.

Show me a Surly made from stainless.


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

After more research, I guess what's usually called crmo has less chromium than most stainless steels, but chromium and molybdenum are what's added to steel to make various types of stainless.

Edit - From wikipedia:


_Ferritic_ stainless steels generally have better engineering properties than austenitic grades, but have reduced corrosion resistance, because of the lower chromium and nickel content. They are also usually less expensive. They contain between 10.5% and 27% chromium and very little nickel, if any, but some types can contain lead. Most compositions include molybdenum; some, aluminium or titanium. Common ferritic grades include 18Cr-2Mo, 26Cr-1Mo, 29Cr-4Mo, and 29Cr-4Mo-2Ni. These alloys can be degraded by the presence of







chromium, an intermetallic phase which can precipitate upon welding.

Edit 2: I guess ferritic stainless isn't actually 41XX family steel, which has even lower chromium content, so you're right, but it's confusing.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

This thread is like hanging out with someone suffering from severe A.D.D.

Everyone is so worried about making this and that "right" decisions. Thanks for making those of us who already own a fat bike feel so honored that it's such a big thing. But really, it's just a bike made for floating in soft conditions (hint hint those who want to use it on the road). Just get one already and quit yer worrying.

My 2 cents. You may continue to your regularly scheduled freaking out.  

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Over-analyzing is hardly unique to this thread.

Just look at all the other topics where people lament the finest details...

170 vs 190
4" vs 5"
symmetrical vs asymmetrical
tubed vs tubeless
cable vs hydro
alum vs steel vs carbon
spesh vs the world

...and numerous others.

The only real difference may be that more people that are new to fatbikes end up here because of the lower prices compared to other offerings right now. 

But rest assured, plenty of people are wasting countless hours and brain cells on any detail you can imagine outside this tread too.


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## newfydog (May 8, 2009)

Can anyone decode this Boris brake spec:
AVID F/R BB7, ROTOR BENGAL F/R F:OD-180L+R: OD-160L wave12

I like the Avid BB7. Sounds like they use non-Avid Bengal rotors, one 180, one 160


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## sbsbiker (Dec 1, 2007)

This over thinking is exactly what would have taken place back in the 80's when mt bikes were born if the tech existed for people to ponder. I think the Fatbike revolution is similar to the opening years of mt biking. People keep finding things that work and experimenting with things to see if they will work. Good fun, keeps cycling interesting.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

newfydog said:


> Can anyone decode this Boris brake spec:
> AVID F/R BB7, ROTOR BENGAL F/R F:OD-180L+R: OD-160L wave12
> 
> I like the Avid BB7. Sounds like they use non-Avid Bengal rotors, one 180, one 160


Sounds like Bengal rotors, they are OK. Good thing the rest of the brake system is not Bengal (horror).


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

Can anyone post a long(ish) term review of their tubeless set up on these rims? I remember some posts a while back where people were able to get their tires set up tubeless using foam strips down the middle of the rim and I was wondering how that is holding up.

I picked up a set of 27TPI Nates and haven't had any luck getting them to set up with tape only (no foam). I'm going to try the foam strip method on my next attempt, but I wanted to see if anyone on here has any advice based on their tubeless experience with these rims.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I have set mine up tubeless using a split tube method. I've done tape in the past (on 29er wheels) and I'm not sure why anyone would go down that road when split tube is so much easier. 

I have On-One Floater tires for about a month, setting them up tubeless was pretty easy. I used a compressor and the back tire aired up on the first time, no problems, a little weeping around the bead, but it quickly sealed up and has held air well (more on burping in a minute). The front tire took three attempts, by attempts I mean that I emptied the compressor tank. After the third time it started holding air, in between attempts I tried to push the bead to the outside, wrap it with a strap, etc, etc. It finally took, and I really can't say why, I can only surmise that the bead slowly moved toward the outside and eventually got on solid ground - the holes were letting air leak through. 

I have had issues with the rear tire burping small amounts of air while I ride on dirt, I've had to refill it twice during rides. I'm hoping eventually the sealant will form a bond between the tube and the tire, I've considered laying a bead of contact cement around the outside, I don't think it will take much resistance to keep the bead from migrating inward and burping. I would put some foam in there, but I already trimmed the tube, so if I did that I would have to put a new tube in, not a big deal, but I want to run this one for a while so I feel like I got my money's worth out of it. :-D


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## yellowzx (Feb 16, 2008)

I used tape and foam with the missions, I was able to fill them with a floor pump but they always had a slow leak. One day the rear was fine for 10ish miles then it just went flat. Now I have tubes back on it. I think I will try the split tube after I get some floaters

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GalenCopes (Dec 5, 2013)

Hey everybody...FNG here. I am about to pull the trigger on either the FB4 or the Boris. I have a few questions that I didn't remember seeing in the 44 pages...but I am getting old and forgetful. 

My first question is regarding the rear hub. Am I reading correctly in that the rear hub on the FB4 is 135mm v/s that on the Boris being 170mm? If so, should that be a big deal? I want the maintain the ability to upgrade along the way as parts wear out.

Also, I noticed the Boris came with cable brakes as opposed to the hydraulic of the FB4. I am coming from the road bike side, and really don't know the positive/negatives of the different types of brake systems. Which is better, and why?

I live is damned-near-the-water Mississippi. I plan to ride trails and beaches. If I see snow down here then that global warming thing has really gotten off track!

Thanks for your help!

Galen


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

You should have no problem finding either a 135 (standard mtb hub) or 170 ( one of two standard fat bike hubs). 

The FB4 comes with cheap hydraulic brakes, bad hydros are far worse than good cable brakes, the BB7s are good cable brakes. That said the hydros on my FB4 are perfectly fine, I've had zero issues with them.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

Jisch said:


> I have set mine up tubeless using a split tube method. I've done tape in the past (on 29er wheels) and I'm not sure why anyone would go down that road when split tube is so much easier.
> 
> I have On-One Floater tires for about a month, setting them up tubeless was pretty easy. I used a compressor and the back tire aired up on the first time, no problems, a little weeping around the bead, but it quickly sealed up and has held air well (more on burping in a minute). The front tire took three attempts, by attempts I mean that I emptied the compressor tank. After the third time it started holding air, in between attempts I tried to push the bead to the outside, wrap it with a strap, etc, etc. It finally took, and I really can't say why, I can only surmise that the bead slowly moved toward the outside and eventually got on solid ground - the holes were letting air leak through.
> 
> I have had issues with the rear tire burping small amounts of air while I ride on dirt, I've had to refill it twice during rides. I'm hoping eventually the sealant will form a bond between the tube and the tire, I've considered laying a bead of contact cement around the outside, I don't think it will take much resistance to keep the bead from migrating inward and burping. I would put some foam in there, but I already trimmed the tube, so if I did that I would have to put a new tube in, not a big deal, but I want to run this one for a while so I feel like I got my money's worth out of it. :-D


I have only tried the front tire thus far, so it is nice to hear that the rear is easier. I was doing the whole strap around the tire method as well so it looks to me that the split tube is a key component up front.

I'm going to be out of town for a week, but will try the foam strips &/or split tube method when I get back and post up the results. Thanks for the help guys.


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## tjdog800 (Aug 3, 2012)

Jisch said:


> I have set mine up tubeless using a split tube method. I've done tape in the past (on 29er wheels) and I'm not sure why anyone would go down that road when split tube is so much easier.
> 
> I have On-One Floater tires for about a month, setting them up tubeless was pretty easy. I used a compressor and the back tire aired up on the first time, no problems, a little weeping around the bead, but it quickly sealed up and has held air well (more on burping in a minute). The front tire took three attempts, by attempts I mean that I emptied the compressor tank. After the third time it started holding air, in between attempts I tried to push the bead to the outside, wrap it with a strap, etc, etc. It finally took, and I really can't say why, I can only surmise that the bead slowly moved toward the outside and eventually got on solid ground - the holes were letting air leak through.
> 
> I have had issues with the rear tire burping small amounts of air while I ride on dirt, I've had to refill it twice during rides. I'm hoping eventually the sealant will form a bond between the tube and the tire, I've considered laying a bead of contact cement around the outside, I don't think it will take much resistance to keep the bead from migrating inward and burping. I would put some foam in there, but I already trimmed the tube, so if I did that I would have to put a new tube in, not a big deal, but I want to run this one for a while so I feel like I got my money's worth out of it. :-D


Some rims have a good "bead lock" that prevents the bead from slipping away from the rim edge under load, which results in a burp. Not sure about the BD rims you have on there but if there is nothing to retain the bead in position, you will be at risk of burping. Building up a "bead-lock" with tape is an option... something that will prevent the bead from sliding away from the rim edge.

See the post on "Tubeless Tuesday" Tubeless Tuesday. - Page 13


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Yes, this is the problem, these rims do not have a bead lock on them at all, its one flat surface. If I continue to burp I'll have to build up a bead lock using foam or whatever. I wish I realized this beforehand. I ignorantly thought that the foam everyone was talking about in that post was only for airing up, not for keeping the bead engaged. Live and learn. 

Even though there is no bead lock on the the front, I don't burp there very often, there are far fewer twisting forces that will push the bead off the rim.


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## tjdog800 (Aug 3, 2012)

Jisch said:


> Yes, this is the problem, these rims do not have a bead lock on them at all, its one flat surface. If I continue to burp I'll have to build up a bead lock using foam or whatever. I wish I realized this beforehand. I ignorantly thought that the foam everyone was talking about in that post was only for airing up, not for keeping the bead engaged. Live and learn.
> 
> Even though there is no bead lock on the the front, I don't burp there very often, there are far fewer twisting forces that will push the bead off the rim.


Indeed, lots of tubeless conversions use the foam/tape to help with airing them up as well as sealing of all the spoke and rim holes. The foam/tape technique is often applied to rims that do have a bead-lock.

Split tube works best on rims that mechanically press the bead to the outside edge in some manner. In fact, the addition of the tube layer in that area strengthens the interface between and reduces the amount of sealant needed. I only use two scoops of Stan's in my fat tires.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

tjdog800 said:


> Indeed, lots of tubeless conversions use the foam/tape to help with airing them up as well as sealing of all the spoke and rim holes. The foam/tape technique is often applied to rims that do have a bead-lock.
> 
> Split tube works best on rims that mechanically press the bead to the outside edge in some manner. In fact, the addition of the tube layer in that area strengthens the interface between and reduces the amount of sealant needed. I only use two scoops of Stan's in my fat tires.


I use a rubberized super glue from gorilla and glue my tire to the split tube for even more burp resistance. When I cut my sidewall, I found an added advantage. The sovlents in a tube of regular tire patch vulcanizing solution can dissolve the super glue that leaked out of the interface onto the sidwall, making it easy and reliable to patch.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

However said:


> Hey Espen, Can you share any pics or info about your new light weight 100mm/100mm fat bikes that are in development?


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

Has anyone checked to see if a Surly 135mm off-set rear wheel for will work with the FB4. Browsing through the thread Espen mention the FB4 looked similar to the Mammut/BigBob MK2 which is a 17.5 off set frame, if that’s the case the off set Surly wheels should work. A little further down someonweasked about the hub size and 21.5mm off set was mentioned, does the rear wheel have a 21.5mm off set and the frame is 17.5mm off set. I was thinking about getting a Rabbit Hole wheelset with Knard 29x3.0.


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## newfydog (May 8, 2009)

Has anyone had luck making the Weinman dhl 80 spec'ed with the Boris tubeless?


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## tjdog800 (Aug 3, 2012)

newfydog said:


> Has anyone had luck making the Weinman dhl 80 spec'ed with the Boris tubeless?


It can be done but will take some effort to build a bead-pocket near the rim edge. Else, it will be prone to burping air.

see post Tubeless Tuesday. - Page 13


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

yep, that's my experience as well.


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## newfydog (May 8, 2009)

Thanks---that's one heck of a good thread, isn't it?


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

There's a new fat bike facebook post:
Know what's coming in the #Spring ?
#Fatbike Fun in the Sand at the #9ZERO4 
#Motobecane Boris #Fatbikes #SRAM X5 / X7 from $600 to $700
Who sells a better Fatbike at a better price?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I brought my bike inside for a day to see if I could get the Stans fluid to bind the tire to the tube. When I have taken split tube tires apart in the past, usually its bound together. It seems to have worked, on today's ride I had no Stans leakage and no burping. I guess in the cold the Stans didn't seal it up. I'll see if it holds.


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

I posted this on Bike Nashbar FaceBook page: Please offer affordable fat bikes!!

Their response: Bike Nashbar Coming soon Steven - our fat bike should be available to order next month.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Interested to see what they come up with.


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

Kawidan said:


> Here are the Monster Versions with 4" Tires. No prices, specs or detailed released yet.
> 
> View attachment 848033
> 
> ...


Where did you get these photos? Link plz or at least date of their BD FaceBook post so I can look it up. Wish they posted specs.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Does anyone know how much the fork on the FB4 weighs? Considering a carbon fork, but only if it saves me weight.


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

*Schwalbe tubes*



Jisch said:


> Considering a carbon fork, but only if it saves me weight.


No idea on the fork weight, but that reminds me to put in a warning for those of you looking to save weight on tubes. 
The Schwalbe tubes that Espen recommended are fine, but have one tragic flaw that makes them a huge pain. They have a removable core in the valve stem, which seems like a nice idea, but is awful in practice. Several times now, I have gone to tweak my tire pressure when I got out to the trails, and unscrewing the cap actually unscrewed the core of the valve stem, which very quickly vents off a lot of air. Thankfully I carry a frame pump, but it is incredibly annoying to go to let a pound of air out of the tires to end up down by several and putzing around with a pump instead of riding. :madman:
I have actually taken pliers to the core to make sure that is nice and tight at home, but I think the plastic cap shrinks more than the metal stem in the cold, so by the time I get out to the trail, even a lightly tightened cap grabs the core and unthreads it from the stem. 
I have even had a couple times that I have gone to spin the valve out, and it spun the core out instead. They're awfully finicky, and I think I'm going to find some other tubes because these are annoying me a lot. 
And no, I'm not a presta newbie. I've had presta valves on my bikes for 10+ years, and never had this sort of issues with any other tubes. I honestly can't remember ever having tubes with removable presta valve cores. If they were, they were always manufactured such that the cores never come out by accident.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I had the same problem, I throw the plastic covers away, but my Lenzyme pump threads on, and often after filling when unscrewing the pump I pulled out the core. Luckily this only happened in my garage when I had the floor pump in hand. 

My advice - lose the plastic cap.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Jisch said:


> Does anyone know how much the fork on the FB4 weighs? Considering a carbon fork, but only if it saves me weight.


Approx 930g with uncut (300mm steerer)


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Espen W said:


> Approx 930g with uncut (300mm steerer)


thanks - per my other post - where would you look to save weight on this bike?


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Valve cores: same thing with Stan's valves, etc.
One could use some Loctite (blue or perhaps red) on the threads. That would keep them from unscrewing. I've had the same thing happen on the trail. Irritating with only a mini punmp at hand...


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Jisch said:


> thanks - per my other post - where would you look to save weight on this bike?


Everywhere... 
Custom Tyvek rimstrips is a good start. Saves approx 120g of rotating weight.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

The Carver O-Beastfull carbon fork weights 578g, I've read a lot of good reviews and at $299. I'm looking to add one to my FB4.


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## crashtestdummy (Jun 18, 2005)

Espen W said:


> Valve cores: same thing with Stan's valves, etc.
> One could use some Loctite (blue or perhaps red) on the threads. That would keep them from unscrewing. I've had the same thing happen on the trail. Irritating with only a mini punmp at hand...


Try a Mr Stubby.


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

Espen W said:


> One could use some Loctite (blue or perhaps red) on the threads. That would keep them from unscrewing. I've had the same thing happen on the trail. Irritating with only a mini punmp at hand...


Indeed! I'll give the blue loctite a try. I keep some around, so that's a cheap an easy fix. I do like the lower weight and more pliable tubes.

As for the fork, if it is $300 to save 350g, you might consider spending the same amount on tires instead, unless you've already done that. I found HuDu ultralights on sale, and I am really happy with them.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Jisch said:


> Does anyone know how much the fork on the FB4 weighs? Considering a carbon fork, but only if it saves me weight.


I weighed it and posted it quite a while ago in this thread. I will try to find it.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Component Weights.
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/moto-bikes-direct-fatbikes-875900-27.html#post10761727


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## sbsbiker (Dec 1, 2007)

Chader09 said:


> Component Weights.
> http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/moto-bikes-direct-fatbikes-875900-27.html#post10761727


What about the weight of the frame only? Anyone have this info?


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

I didn't strip mine down that far.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

2014 Fantom FB4 Comp
Compare $695 | SALE $239 + FREE SHIP 48 States
Steel TaperBlade Fork 
Comfort Saddle, Gel... http://fb.me/6DJpVoLqR
Expired! did anyone get in on this just now?


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Effff


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

puchcobra said:


> 2014 Fantom FB4 Comp
> Compare $695 | SALE $239 + FREE SHIP 48 States
> Steel TaperBlade Fork
> Comfort Saddle, Gel... http://fb.me/6DJpVoLqR
> Expired! did anyone get in on this just now?


Where was this posted? I follow them on Facebook but never seen the deal posted.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

twitter @bikesdirect_joe


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Missed out on this one...:madman:

Cheaper than an indoor trainer and more fun :thumbsup::thumbsup:



puchcobra said:


> 2014 Fantom FB4 Comp
> Compare $695 | SALE $239 + FREE SHIP 48 States
> Steel TaperBlade Fork
> Comfort Saddle, Gel... http://fb.me/6DJpVoLqR
> Expired! did anyone get in on this just now?


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## GalenCopes (Dec 5, 2013)

Looking at their next tweet, it looks like this was a misprint for another bike. I wish I could have jumped on this before the mistake was noticed!

Galen


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

I wonder if the link actually brought you to the Fat Bike Page or to the other bike they meant to put on sale.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Anyone know when they are gonna post more info on the cheaper Boris?


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

well if it was a mistake I will still watch for the big secret fat bike sale, I think BD is going to do a secret sale.


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

Boris info: Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Boris X9 SRAM


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

*Off-Set rear wheel? Will other 135mm spacing off-set wheels work?*

Does anyone know if other 135mm hub spacing off-set rear wheels will work with the FB4. I was thinking about getting a Surly Rabbit Hole wheelset and running Knard 29x3.0 this summer, it would be nice to able to run the FB4 as a 29er+, kind of a do all bike. I've seen on a couple different sites that sell 135mm off-set rear wheels for fat bikes, one site says the wheels 17.5 off-set and another site states there 135mm off-set wheels will fit any fat frame using the 135mm offset design. I put a 29er rear wheel on the rear and of course it didn't line up, but it fit and it looks like there might be enough room to put a 29er+ rear as long as it's off-set.


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

Thanks fatbikenoob but I meant the new x7 and x5 Boris. I wonder when we will get info on them?


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## linus69 (Oct 16, 2013)

Did some riding on a frozen lake, it was a blast.


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## fujiteam (Jan 12, 2009)

I finally got a chance to ride some snow last night. The handling on the plowed/compressed snow in the parking lot was crazy. There was just so much grip. When I ventured into virgin snow it was a different story. The snow is about 8in deep and pretty fluffy (for New England). I could not get anywhere. What have others found the functiona limit to be?

Also if people are running rear racks on their bikes what are you using? My road rack did not fit. I could bolt it by the drop out, but could not connect to the seat stays neat the seat post. The width was totally fine.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm also in New England. I rode in 3-4" of soft, loose snow on Saturday, it was fun and completely manageable. A friend behind me on a regular mountain bike was still having fun, but his ride was much more squirrely than mine. He could not be in front of me, on the fresh snow he spun out or washed out, he needed me to pack the trail for him. 

We got another 3 or 4" of snow and that was the end of my fun. I tried to ride Sunday morning, 5-6" of snow with a breakable crust on top, it was a pretty miserable ride, it was good to get out in the woods, but it was more like a hike than a ride. 

So the practical limit on loose, light snow is probably 4" or so, anything more than that and you can't get enough traction to move and your front wheel will wash out.

I see a lot of people talking about this in the fat bike forum now. I think some people have a mistaken understanding of what a fat bike could do. I fully expected this limit - slightly higher than a skinny bike, but not hugely different. The motor is the same and the physics of snow just don't allow for traction over a certain depth.


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

Jisch said:


> So the practical limit on loose, light snow is probably 4" or so, anything more than that and you can't get enough traction to move and your front wheel will wash out.
> 
> I see a lot of people talking about this in the fat bike forum now. I think some people have a mistaken understanding of what a fat bike could do. I fully expected this limit - slightly higher than a skinny bike, but not hugely different. The motor is the same and the physics of snow just don't allow for traction over a certain depth.


So, what I'm hearing is you can't "Float over three feet of soft powder snow or deep sugar sand and laugh!"?? I call shenanigans! 
Seriously, though, I've been winter biking for a long time, and this bike makes it possible and even enjoyable to ride in conditions that would be miserable or impassible on my other bikes. The right tires really help, too. On a whim, I took the long way home one night, through some areas that I knew would have lots of extra snow drifts, and I was able to push through a good 6" of soft loose snow for over a mile. It was hard work and slow going, and I had to get off and push where the drifts were deeper, but I made it. 
I tried a similar stunt a few years ago on my mountain bike, and I ended up sheepishly calling my wife to pick me up. 
This is what bikes are about for me: finding my limits and pushing them.


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

fujiteam said:


> Also if people are running rear racks on their bikes what are you using? My road rack did not fit. I could bolt it by the drop out, but could not connect to the seat stays neat the seat post. The width was totally fine.


I have a Topeak Explorer that I swapped from my other bike onto this one for a shopping trip. It seems to work quite well. I mounted it to the outside on the left and the inside on the right. I don't have the disc mount version, but that one might be even better. As it is, the disc mount version isn't required because the mounts are already clear of the brakes.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

jkbike said:


> This is what bikes are about for me: finding my limits and pushing them.


Exactly.


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## fujiteam (Jan 12, 2009)

jkbike said:


> I have a Topeak Explorer that I swapped from my other bike onto this one for a shopping trip. It seems to work quite well. I mounted it to the outside on the left and the inside on the right. I don't have the disc mount version, but that one might be even better. As it is, the disc mount version isn't required because the mounts are already clear of the brakes.


How do you get the rack to attach to the frame. I mounted the drop out side like you did, but the arms are no where near the chain stays.



Jisch said:


> I see a lot of people talking about this in the fat bike forum now. I think some people have a mistaken understanding of what a fat bike could do. I fully expected this limit - slightly higher than a skinny bike, but not hugely different. The motor is the same and the physics of snow just don't allow for traction over a certain depth.


I am running the stock missions. I mainly bought the bike for winter coummuting and winter trail riding. The idea being either the snow was packed or during a melt where there are patches of snow that my XC bike could not get through. It sounds like this is reasonable. Looks like I found a situation past the ability to ride.

I normally use bike paths to commute but it sounds like I may have to use roads in the winter, but the bike seems perfect for riding maintaned snow covered roads. Now I just need to light it like a christmas tree.


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## zcmack (Apr 19, 2012)

jkbike said:


> This is what bikes are about for me: finding my limits and pushing them.


i agree. in the right conditions, the only limitation i've found is when the snow is too deep to maintain cadence. though i was about ready to call it quits on my first commute after riding snowy singletrack, i forgot to air the tires back up. that was brutal. :madman:


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## indigo_falconm40 (Jan 18, 2012)

After reading all 46 pages. I will wait to see if they have larger frame options for me(6'5 with 34 inseam). The weather where I live we dont get heavy amounts of snow at most 4"-5" at a time. I really do like the Boris but wanting some color. I m looking to get one of these BD fat bikes in the fall 2014.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

How did you guys get your BD fat bikes so soon, the pre order said they don't arrive til February. I ordered one today and don't mind waiting but is it going to arrive sooner?


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## GalenCopes (Dec 5, 2013)

puchcobra said:


> How did you guys get your BD fat bikes so soon, the pre order said they don't arrive til February. I ordered one today and don't mind waiting but is it going to arrive sooner?


This is round 2 of pre-orders. I am waiting on a Boris myself.

Galen


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Ok I went with the Phantom FB4 Elite it's kind of like a Surly Moonlander, am I right?


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## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

is a cheaper Boris definite? I am going to order the x9 soon but I wish they had other colors available


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

I read that none of the fat bikes are going to be sold any cheaper than right now. If anything the price is going to go up.


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## dudeist (Apr 3, 2013)

Yo fujiteam, 
"P-Clamps" Are Your Friends! | Bike Commuters
bike shops have these or maybe cheaper at hardware store. Stainless steel would be good, and rubber lined and I bet someone sells a whole kit of hardware with extensions for bike racks.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Can somebody tell me if my Kooka Kranks are compatible with the Fantom, is it a square taper BB on these? My Kooka is on Ebay, I shoud end the sale if they can save some weight.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

puchcobra said:


> Ok I went with the Phantom FB4 Elite it's kind of like a Surly Moonlander, am I right?


No, it's not. The Moonie has 4.8" tires.
The FB4's are more like the Pugs that have 3.8" tires.



puchcobra said:


> Can somebody tell me if my Kooka Kranks are compatible with the Fantom, is it a square taper BB on these? My Kooka is on Ebay, I shoud end the sale if they can save some weight.


No, the FB's do not use square taper cranks.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Thanks for the info, I test rode a Pugsley and really liked it.


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## sbsbiker (Dec 1, 2007)

puchcobra said:


> Thanks for the info, I test rode a Pugsley and really liked it.


Now you are hooked.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

That's all it took for me... One ride then I was selling stuff to put $ down eventually on the Boris!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## richulr (Jan 27, 2010)

donn12 said:


> is a cheaper Boris definite? I am going to order the x9 soon but I wish they had other colors available


They mentioned others coming out on facebook. There's a post about it in this thread. Wish they would tell us more about them.


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

richulr said:


> They mentioned others coming out on facebook. There's a post about it in this thread. Wish they would tell us more about them.


It was mentioned in a few facebook posts. I believe it was x5 Boris for around $600 and x7 around $700. I'm guessing we won't see presales for these till spring or summer time.

Has anyone confirmed whether thee boris will have the sliding dropouts that it appears to have in pictures?


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## fujiteam (Jan 12, 2009)

dudeist said:


> Yo fujiteam,
> "P-Clamps" Are Your Friends! | Bike Commuters
> bike shops have these or maybe cheaper at hardware store. Stainless steel would be good, and rubber lined and I bet someone sells a whole kit of hardware with extensions for bike racks.


Thank you for the advice, they may be useful for some other Fat mods.

I don't think they will solve the rack problem. All the pictures I can find online show the supports from teh rack to the seat stays angled down. I guess I need another rack where those supports can pivot further down.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

On the tubeless question - I was riding in deep snow (well mostly pushing) and I kept letting air out trying to get more pressure, I went too far and I burped all the air out of my rear tire. I go the tire to air back up, but it just wouldn't seal around the bead in one spot. I pulled the tire off to put a tube in and found that there was no stans fluid left inside other than a medium sized goober. I'm putting it back together tubeless right now using foam weatherstripping to create a ridge close to rim edge, we'll see how this works.


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

fujiteam said:


> I don't think they will solve the rack problem. All the pictures I can find online show the supports from teh rack to the seat stays angled down. I guess I need another rack where those supports can pivot further down.


Oh, seat stays! You said chain stays the first time, and I was completely confused. Many racks have pieces that can bend to the proper angle for your seat stay mounts. That's what I did with my Topeak Explorer. I'm a big fan of that rack now that I've used it for a while. It is big, heavy duty, and has a nice finish. I've had some other cheaper racks with similar mounting hardware, but those would be too narrow for these tires.


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## linus69 (Oct 16, 2013)

Ok so I tried my comp in 5-6ins of crusty snow with the stock tires and it truly sucked. These are not the tires to ride in the snow,the stock front tire has it`s own agenda in deeper snow. Here are some pics of how I floated over the deep powder.


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

So I take it that means I won't be floating over 3' of powder while laughing?

Seriously though, I ditched the Missions a month ago and picked up a pair of 27 TPI Nates...definitely much better traction, all around handling and they do great in the snow. 5-6" of untracked crusty snow would be tough with any tire.


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## sbsbiker (Dec 1, 2007)

I agree with vittetoe those Mission tires should be use on sand or dirt, I went to a pair of 45N Dillingers and it made a huge difference


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## N8R (Feb 4, 2004)

If you scroll down a ways on Bikedirects FB page at the nov 19-20 posts, it say's they will have some Gravity fatbikes out next spring for $400-$500. The Gravity Dead eye and bullseye models.


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## indigo_falconm40 (Jan 18, 2012)

dudeist said:


> Yo fujiteam,
> "P-Clamps" Are Your Friends! | Bike Commuters
> bike shops have these or maybe cheaper at hardware store. Stainless steel would be good, and rubber lined and I bet someone sells a whole kit of hardware with extensions for bike racks.


These look to be good too. FLEXROUTE | The universal cable guide by Hawken Components ? Kickstarter


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I had a great ride on the FB4 last night - The temps finally got above freezing during the day making the snow a lot more dense than it has been. I was able to break trail, but mostly I stayed on the trails the hikers use. It was not a fast ride at all, but there's no way a regular bike would stay on top in these conditions.


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## fujiteam (Jan 12, 2009)

Jisch said:


> I had a great ride on the FB4 last night - The temps finally got above freezing during the day making the snow a lot more dense than it has been. I was able to break trail, but mostly I stayed on the trails the hikers use. It was not a fast ride at all, but there's no way a regular bike would stay on top in these conditions.


I had a similar expierance. It was almost frustratingly slow, then I realized what I was doing and how I could not do it on any other bike. One problem was when i stopped I oculd not get started agin though. Maybe new tires would be good.

I also rode some sidewalks that had not been plowed so they had foot prints and rough snow. It was not such a great ride. seems like I need smoother snow.


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

fujiteam said:


> One problem was when i stopped I oculd not get started agin though. Maybe new tires would be good.
> 
> I also rode some sidewalks that had not been plowed so they had foot prints and rough snow. It was not such a great ride. seems like I need smoother snow.


I think you are correct. I looked at the Missions and immediately decided they would be useless in snow unless it is smooth and hard packed. The lugs are too big and shallow. I would mostly describe it as a smooth low rolling resistance tire. Having some taller lugs really helps to grip the snow to get moving again when it is thick. It also helps to have the bike in a fairly low gear, and be really easy on the pedals. Feel when it starts to slip and compensate. Patience is crucial. 
I have a section of path near my house that is high traffic, but poorly maintained, and I rode it one day on my fatbike, and the next day on my studded skinny commuter, and the fat low pressure tires really did soak up a LOT of the bumps from all the footprints. I thought parts were going to rattle right off my commuter.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

My main complaint with the Missions had to do with self steer tendencies, I never rode them in snow. I completely agree that they are aimed more towards low rolling resistance than traction. That said on one of my recent rides I was side by side with a friend riding down a dirt road, he was on a 26er with Nevegals on them, without pedaling he quickly went past me, much lower rolling resistance than my On One Floaters.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

did you guys get a tracking number on your pre order immediately or does it show up after February when they're ready to ship?


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## CC-John (Jun 2, 2012)

puchcobra said:


> did you guys get a tracking number on your pre order immediately or does it show up after February when they're ready to ship?


I pre-ordered a Boris on Nov. 19, received a confirmation email on the 20th with a tracking number..

February can't get here fast enough!!


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

CC-John said:


> February can't get here fast enough!!


Amen!

Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Thanks for the response, I paid with Paypal and only got an invoice/receipt on Dec 18th.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

I ordered a small greenie for the mrs. last week and had a shipping tracking # 2 days later.


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## Vittetoe761 (Sep 24, 2012)

EDIT:
Wheel- 100mm Weinmann double wall, w/ single row of 28mm holes.
Tires- Surly Nate, 27 TPI

I was able to get my front wheel set up tubeless this weekend. If you are worried about saving weight by going tubeless, you might as well stop reading this post right meow...there is nothing weight weenie about my method.

I started off by trying to set it up using only 1-2 layers of Gorilla Tape across the entire rim, which was unsuccessful (bead absolutely would not seat). After doing some thinking and picking the brains of some other FB4 riders in this thread, I determined that the rim needed to be built up on the edges to provide a tighter fit between the tire and the rim (thus keeping air inside the tire when trying to get it aired up without a tube).

I accomplished this by running half-width strips of Gorilla Tape on the edge of the rim...and I did a lot of them, like 6-8 layers. I really don't know how many layers I installed at first, but it was too many. The inner rim was built up so high that I couldn't get the tire mounted onto the rim, so I had to peel off a few layers of tape until I was (barely) able to get the tire mounted. I think this is key...the tire needs to be difficult to mount on the rim in order to provide a tight seal.

After getting the tire mounted on the rim, I sprayed it with soapy water and gave it a test run with the air compressor to see if it would air up and it did. SUCCESS! I then added 5 scoops of Stans (better to be safe than sorry) through the valve stem and aired it up again. It was loosing pressure very quickly at first, so I tilted the wheel on it's side (parallel with the ground) and gently rolled the sealant around the rim to prime the bead. This seemed to help as I was able to get it aired up on my next try using the compressor. Once it was aired up, I did the Stan's shake and flip process a half a dozen times and called it good. It's been holding air ever since. I haven't tried dropping the pressure super low, but I would presume I have been running it around 8-9 PSI the last couple days with no issues.

Time will tell if it is a good solid set up, but it seems to be working well for now. Hopefully someone finds this info handy!


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I still think split tube is a better option - you don't have to worry about Stans getting under the Gorilla Tape. I have struggled to get my rear wheel to not burp though. I put some closed cell foam weather stripping near the edge of the rim, but I can't tell if that's helping or not, I'll have to get a few more rides in to be sure. I expected to hear/feel the bead slip over the foam as I inflated, I didn't so I don't know the bead just pushed the foam towards the edge or it slipped over the strip without a lot of pressure.


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## Moobiker (Mar 24, 2005)

I tried the split tube/closed cell foam method and found that on the front rim there wasn't enough room between the rim and the bead on my floaters. I also discovered on my green FB4 with 100mm front/80mm back rims that the qtube size recommended was only wide enough to work well on the back rim. After a couple failures on the front, I ultimately got the larger qtube (24x2.4-2.75) for the front and it worked perfectly. I used two measuring cups of stans and it sealed up perfectly the first time. After an hour and half ride yesterday I had no burps and negligible air loss. Having used the tape method for both my road bike and 29er, I am now a fan of ghetto tubeless.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Anthem1 said:


> I ordered a small greenie for the mrs. last week and had a shipping tracking # 2 days later.


excellent thanks I just got a tracking number today
I just searched Ebay for "fat bike wheel" and found fat bikes from Shanghai with free shipping 890 or best offer, it looks like a Surly frame and made of aluminum and shimano. 1 year warranty And 10 watchers per hour.
2014 New Beach Cruiser 18" Fat Tire Bike Bicycle Disc Brake 26 4 0 Wheels Cycle | eBay


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

Here's a quick review of the bd Boris

http://fat-bike.com/2013/12/first-look-khs-3000-4-season-fat-bike/


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Cool. I'd love to see a weight on it. And I assume he meant a 10deg sweep on the bars and not rise, as they look flat.


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

boogman said:


> Here's a quick review of the bd Boris
> 
> First Look ? KHS 3000 4 Season Fat-bike | FAT-BIKE.COM


The 4 season decal looks very cheesy in my opinion. Just not something I would expect on a $2,000 bike...
I guess the same reason I dont have a big 4x4 decal on my SUV...no need to advertise.


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

alshead said:


> Cool. I'd love to see a weight on it. And I assume he meant a 10deg sweep on the bars and not rise, as they look flat.


There's a few pics in the KHS forum that show it weighing 33lbs 15oz. I'm not sure what size frame it is though.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

I did not realize this frame had sliders, I was trying to rationalize the boris over the comp, the ability to SS this frame is a huge bonus for me.


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## iCollector (Nov 14, 2012)

I still wonder about what the rims will be.... Drilled or not. I could really like this bike with rims that I wouldn't need to replace.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

I thought the hoops were confirmed as drilled Weinmann HL-80.
Weinmann Metal Products Co., LTD


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## iCollector (Nov 14, 2012)

Anthem1 said:


> I thought the hoops were confirmed as drilled Weinmann HL-80.


Dang it.... I just bought a sweet 2.8 zoom for my camera..... The Boris was looking nice, but the BD pics looked solid, not drilled, and I didn't want to have to shell out for me wheels. My moolah is all gone!


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

fujiteam said:


> I had a similar expierance. It was almost frustratingly slow, then I realized what I was doing and how I could not do it on any other bike. One problem was when i stopped I oculd not get started agin though. Maybe new tires would be good.
> 
> I also rode some sidewalks that had not been plowed so they had foot prints and rough snow. It was not such a great ride. seems like I need smoother snow.


What you are basically describing is fat biking. That's just how it is. Lots of statements like this here and other places online is what is convincing me that we are at the peak of fat bike popularity. The trend will quickly wear off for the snow fat bikers once people actually start riding them during the winter and realize its a whole new game and isn't always easy. To me its still always better than sitting indoors, even if it is stupid-cold outside and the snow is thick.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

puchcobra said:


> excellent thanks I just got a tracking number today
> I just searched Ebay for "fat bike wheel" and found fat bikes from Shanghai with free shipping 890 or best offer, it looks like a Surly frame and made of aluminum and shimano. 1 year warranty And 10 watchers per hour.
> 2014 New Beach Cruiser 18" Fat Tire Bike Bicycle Disc Brake 26 4 0 Wheels Cycle | eBay


Dude, you're high if you think that looks anything like a Surly frame. 

Steel cro-mo frames use round tubing throughout... not formed low-grade aluminum like on that eBay bike.

Crazy long chainstays on that eBay beach bike will make it a pig to turn. And 7 speed drivetrain would suck even on the beach... which they are advertising this to? Hmmm. This is what happens when Chinamen try to quickly nock-off something they understand nothing about, while also making it as cheap as possible.

Stick with the BD upper model bikes if you need something cheap, and stay far away from eBay bikes.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

O.K. I am all in. After ordering a comp for the Mrs. last week I have been looking for something for me. I considered trying to build as a cheap a SS as I could throw together vs. a complete bike but nothing really comes close to these bikes for the $, really wanted a comp but they are LONG gone so settled for a boris. Plan is to circumnavigate the FLA coast line over 2014 one ride at a time with the Mrs


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

Anthem1, that would be sweet ride along the FLA coast on fat tire.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

FatBikeNoob said:


> Anthem1, that would be sweet ride along the FLA coast on fat tire.


Yeah, the Mrs. loves walking the beach, I am into ultra rides on the bike. I think this will be a sweet compromise.


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

duggus said:


> What you are basically describing is fat biking. That's just how it is. Lots of statements like this here and other places online is what is convincing me that we are at the peak of fat bike popularity. The trend will quickly wear off for the snow fat bikers once people actually start riding them during the winter and realize its a whole new game and isn't always easy. To me its still always better than sitting indoors, even if it is stupid-cold outside and the snow is thick.


This is a spot on statement.


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## jwilds1 (Dec 21, 2013)

*Boris or FB4 Elite?*

Given the two, which would you pick and why? Personally, I would probably go 2x9 on the FB4 with a bash guard, so that point is moot to me..

(btw, this is a great forum... First post)


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## RocktonRider (Nov 30, 2010)

I'd have to go with Boris, if for no other reasons than the 170mm rear hub (solely personal preference having OCD) and sliding dropouts (assuming this is identical to the KHS, of course). I'm also a fan of BB7s, and the X9 Type 2 rear derailleur is a bonus. The big question mark are the hubs and rims... the FB4s appear to be drilled double-wall rims, which I suspect would collect a lot of mud and debris if you're not running exclusively in snow.


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## jwilds1 (Dec 21, 2013)

Thanks. This is going to be my first new bike in a long time. I have a Spec. 26er hard tail and a Spec. Tricross single speed. Believe it or not, a fatbike may end up being a commuter. I have a 13 mile route to work on very busy suburban streets but I can take some railroad tracks and turn it into a 7 mile route.

The bike would also be a fun trail bike, so your point about the rims is taken.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

First post, nice to meet you all. Just picked up Moto fantom fatty in neon green. Changes already made: brown odi grips,brown brooks b17,slx shifters,xt r/d,xt cassette,took off big ring added race face bashguard. Removed all stickers and badging and the graphics on crankarms. Cool bike, lots of fun. XT brakes next.


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## Essox (Dec 10, 2013)

I also have a green comp and love it. Upgrades so far are removal of big ring and bbg bashgaurd, Qtubes, one one floaters, new bars, slx rd, pogies, mud shovels and poached seat post and seat from my Giant anthem x2. Only thing left is possibly upgrading rear cassette to xt. All this for less than 1k!


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

I'm curious: why replace the rear derailleur? The Alivio seems to be working fine - is there a compelling reason? (weight?) same goes for the cassette. 

Most fun ride recently has been over 5" of snow that is now frozen hardpack w/ a 1" dusting - the whole world and an entire forest preserve are essentially "paved" and the 1" on top makes it like floating - I just ride wherever I want - through the trees, across ponds. Also it was quite fun to sneak into the local ski hill after dark and ride up, then down - the moguls were a blast!


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## johnkcoyle (Oct 12, 2013)

Hi Anthem - they issue the tracking sometimes a month or 2 before they send - just don't want you to get your hopes up. Enjoy it!


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Mine came with Acera shifters and r/d. I know theres the if its not broke dont fix it logic which Im not arguing with but the crispness and precise shifting of the slx and xt are definetely superior. I also cant leave anything alone (prob the real reason). Im no weight weenie at 6ft 230lbs but I do have the tendency to put a beating on components. The only thing Im considering weight wise is going tubeless, cheapest way to cut 1-1 1/2lbs of rolling weight. Ive seen alot of videos of the ghetto method and it looks pretty easy but just havent been motivated enough to try.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

johnkcoyle said:


> I'm curious: why replace the rear derailleur? The Alivio seems to be working fine - is there a compelling reason? (weight?) same goes for the cassette.


The cassette is purely a weight issue. The Alivio rear derailleur didn't work at all for me. I lost my chain riding over any rough terrain, and tons of chain slap. I ride mine in the dirt as well as the snow.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Same here Jisch, ride alot of singletrack with it. Surprising how nimble and fun it is on the trails. Very easy to ride, was able to bunny hop a few log piles on first ride out. The tires make it similar to riding on a full suspension bike when your preparing to jump over an object and loading the shocks. Felt very similar on fat bike. At least thats how it feels to me, anyway you slice it, its just a good time.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Agreed! Take a look at the post I just put up for some pics from today's ride.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## Essox (Dec 10, 2013)

The acera shifts suprisingly well however when riding over rough terrain at speed (DOWN HILL) it chain slaps horrible and I actually had it chain suck and jam a couple times. For snow and smooth riding the acera is fine assuming you keep it lubed as it is steel or will rust. I have had no issues with acera shifters. The slx is also the shadow design with the extra pivot that helps as well. Plus it matches the front dr now.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

johnkcoyle said:


> Hi Anthem - they issue the tracking sometimes a month or 2 before they send - just don't want you to get your hopes up. Enjoy it!


Yeah, I am hunkered in and not expecting to see delivery before March That has not stopped me from collecting upgrades tho I already have a 10 speed x9 shifter, Race face 32T Narrow/wide CR and 10-36 cassette. The comp will be 1 x 10 and think I will leave the Boris stock for now and see how well the x5 shifters hold up. The Mrs is a shrimp at 5'2" so a zero offset seat post and a 60mm stem and saddle are on my list to finish out her build.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Im always buying, selling and trading. Good thing about having alot of parts. Either can use it on a project or theres always someone else who wants it. Made alot of room in my garage this year, got rid of 4 bikes and a ton of parts. Forgot that I got 3 new ones, so I guess I didnt make that much room after all. Viscious cycle.


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## cm11599ps (Nov 27, 2013)

I just happy that I can finally say, "I'm getting my fatty THIS year." Lol


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Nice getting ready to take mine on some icey singletrack this morning, about 15° now.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Can someone with a comp give me some feedback on the wheels?
Are these hoops single or double walled?


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Just got back, ride cut short, snapped another chain. Anyone replace theres yet on there fatty? Possible I'm producing even more power on climbs with the fat bike? With tire pressure being so low and increased surface area / grip? Chain recommendations?


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## Essox (Dec 10, 2013)

The rims on the comp are double walled.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Thanks Essox


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I haven't snapped a chain yet. I had an awesome ride out on frozen singletrack this morning. There were a few climbs where the fat tire was the differentiator in getting traction on icy leaves. Great ride, really loving this bike. I think I am in a happy place with the tubeless now, not getting any Stan's streaks and haven't burped any air in three or four rides.


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## zcmack (Apr 19, 2012)

Jisch said:


> I haven't snapped a chain yet. I had an awesome ride out on frozen singletrack this morning. There were a few climbs where the fat tire was the differentiator in getting traction on icy leaves. Great ride, really loving this bike. I think I am in a happy place with the tubeless now, not getting any Stan's streaks and haven't burped any air in three or four rides.


what did you end up doing to keep the bead set?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I bought adhesive backed, closed cell weather stripping at the hardware store and ran a strip around the outside of the rim on each side.

It SEEMS to be working, but before I can fully endorse this I'd have to take the tire apart and see what happened when I inflated the tire. I _think_ the bead is on the outside of these strips and held in place, the stuff is pretty sticky, but is it THAT sticky? I don't know.

I saw in the Tuesday Tubeless thread where someone had a wide strip of foam that they ran down the middle, that probably makes a lot more sense since you are not depending on the foam strip to stick to the rim strip.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

So I finally had my first snow ride the other day and had a great time. The bike performed better great. Only problem was with the brakes. I have the fantom that came with the tektro 330 hydro brakes. They stopped fine but let out the worst squeal you could imagine. The squealing only happened when I was braking but lasted the entire hour long ride. Granted it was around zero with the wind chill but is this to be expected? Anyone else have same experience?


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## zcmack (Apr 19, 2012)

wrecognize said:


> So I finally had my first snow ride the other day and had a great time. The bike performed better great. Only problem was with the brakes. I have the fantom that came with the tektro 330 hydro brakes. They stopped fine but let out the worst squeal you could imagine. The squealing only happened when I was braking but lasted the entire hour long ride. Granted it was around zero with the wind chill but is this to be expected? Anyone else have same experience?


i had the exact same experience on mine. i read somewhere to try organic brake pads. i haven't tried it yet. i do notice more squealing (not quite as bad) on my 29er when the rotors are wet so it may just be the nature of the beast.


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## Flying_Scotsman (Jul 12, 2011)

zcmack said:


> i had the exact same experience on mine. i read somewhere to try organic brake pads. i haven't tried it yet. i do notice more squealing (not quite as bad) on my 29er when the rotors are wet so it may just be the nature of the beast.


Throw a handful of sand on them and bed them in with some hard stops on a long downhill??


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## Moobiker (Mar 24, 2005)

Same issue on my greenie with these brakes (and on other bikes with similar quality hydraulics) but generally more pronounced when they are wet. Interestingly, on my 29er with XTR brakes I have no issues - I'm not suggesting you put $300 worth of brakes on a $700 bike - I'm just reporting the news.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Tektro just had a brake recall not sure if you guys fall into this category
Product Recall: Tektro Spyre | Bike Magic


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

FWIW, most disc brakes squeal a bit in the cold-cold. I have BB7's and they do the same thing- organic pads, well bedded in.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

I was planning to change brakes anyway, just not so soon. I'll try changing the pads and see if theres any change. Ive had several bikes with hydro brakes and never had that kind of squeal. My bike left the $700 range within a day of getting it. Cant leave anything alone.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

I hear you Alshead but this was the opposite of a bit. Was so bad I was even taking different lines just to avoid using the brakes more than I absolutely had to. And it was every single time despite whether I feathered the brakes or used alot of pressure. We had a bunch of snow so I'll test them again and report back.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I had a bad squeal with my expert, I cleaned the discs and secured up the pads with sandpaper, quieted them down. I agree that cold weather can do that.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## streetNslime (Feb 18, 2013)

Essox said:


> The acera shifts suprisingly well however when riding over rough terrain at speed (DOWN HILL) it chain slaps horrible and I actually had it chain suck and jam a couple times. For snow and smooth riding the acera is fine assuming you keep it lubed as it is steel or will rust. I have had no issues with acera shifters. The slx is also the shadow design with the extra pivot that helps as well. Plus it matches the front dr now.


If you have chain suck on a new bike, you may want to check your chain for a stuck link. Also, double-check that the chain length is correct.

You may be able to increase the chain tension. Here is a video:
How to Overhaul a Derailleur P Knuckle on Your Mountain Bike (Video)


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## Essox (Dec 10, 2013)

No stuck links that I could find, thanks for the tip. The chain is long as I removed the large ring and added a bash. The spring on the acera is really wimpy and thought about trying to get a stiffer spring but the slx rd was less than 50 bucks on sale. I havent got around to installing it as it only happend twice in the fall when I was bouncing around over rocks and roots at speed. No problems for normal riding. I will shorten the chain and put the slx on once the snow is gone.


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## dudeist (Apr 3, 2013)

Google time:
Mountain Bike Action How to: Stop Brake Squeal | News | mountain-bike-action

https://www.sram.com/sites/default/files/techdocs/2010_avid_technical_manual_english_final.pdf page 56 bed-in procedure. I had discs for years before learning this.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Ive read the MBA article but havent read the sram one before, interesting.


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## Moobiker (Mar 24, 2005)

Looks like the recall applies only to a model of mechanical disc brake calipers. Fortunately (or not, depending on your individual preference) the brakes on the FB4comp are hydraulic.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

wrecognize said:


> I hear you Alshead but this was the opposite of a bit. Was so bad I was even taking different lines just to avoid using the brakes more than I absolutely had to. And it was every single time despite whether I feathered the brakes or used alot of pressure. We had a bunch of snow so I'll test them again and report back.


The only way you are going to get away with no squeal in cold, snowy damp conditions is to get organic brake pads, but they wear fast. Even the top of the line brakes still squeal (HOWL) when the weather/snow/cold is just right.


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## zink (Sep 14, 2011)

Essox said:


> The acera shifts suprisingly well however when riding over rough terrain at speed (DOWN HILL) it chain slaps horrible and I actually had it chain suck and jam a couple times. For snow and smooth riding the acera is fine assuming you keep it lubed as it is steel or will rust. I have had no issues with acera shifters. The slx is also the shadow design with the extra pivot that helps as well. Plus it matches the front dr now.


The Alivio RD-M430-L on the Elite also has a very weak spring though it does seem to shift fine on the downhills other than the chain slap. It is a world apart from the chain tension and security of a 1x10 with a Zee derailleur though. In the smallest front cog with a slightly rusty chain there were issues with chain suck climbing up hills but moving up to the middle front cog fixed that.



zcmack said:


> i had the exact same experience on mine. i read somewhere to try organic brake pads. i haven't tried it yet. i do notice more squealing (not quite as bad) on my 29er when the rotors are wet so it may just be the nature of the beast.


Shimano BL-M395 brakes on the Elite also squealed very badly but at different times or on different hills than my BB7s.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

First post. On-One Floater on sale today 15% off with the coupon code UKTYRE15. On-One Floater Fat Tyre / 4.0 inch / 120 TPI / Folding / Black. Just ordered myself 2.

Ordered a Boris X9 so am getting my bike set-up. Will have it delivered to Big Sky Montana, and hopefully be able to ride some of the trails and give myself something to do other than Hardboot Snowboarding and Skate Skiing. Should be a lot of fun late in the season when snow has melted at lower elevations. (Base area 7500 ft).

Thanks to all that post with information that I have absorbed.


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

So did we get final and real geometry measurements for the Fantom FB4 Elite?

I searched the thread and found some arguing over measurements in photo shop, but no real life numbers.

(_Edit: Finally found the real life numbers in this thread. Espin's numbers are correct_)

*So my question now is: Does anyone know the A2C of the fork that comes with the Fantom FB4 Elite?*

I want to compare it to the Caver O'Beast at 465mm A2C to see if that will affect geo at all.


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## T Wing (Oct 16, 2013)

I had some problems with chain suck... A friend and I looked at it and realized when I was on the smallest chain ring the chain would catch on the hardware holding on the big ring. I thought about filing it smooth, but ended up just turning around the hardware. I'll post some pics if you want.


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## manfromwillow (Sep 15, 2012)

I had a problem with "chain suck" as well. I realized the smallest ring is made of steel. I guess when pedaling hard it became burred on a few teeth thus grabbing the chain and making it wrap upon itself. I took ye olé dremel to it and it worked for a few rides but happened again, another dremelling and it lasted another few rides and went back to sucking. I went to an aluminum chain ring and have had no problems since.


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## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

I just ordered a Large Boris. I am excited about taking it to the beach this year!


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

go to the moto photo thread and ask about the fork a2c I personally think its 465 because it looks like a kona WO frame, the small fantom comp bike frames kinda do
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/show-us-your-moto-fatbikes-881887.html


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

puchcobra said:


> go to the moto photo thread and ask about the fork a2c I personally think its 465 because it looks like a kona WO frame, the small fantom comp bike frames kinda do
> http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/show-us-your-moto-fatbikes-881887.html


Awesome. Done and done.


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## T Wing (Oct 16, 2013)

It was tough to take a picture from the other side, but the top bolt is reversed. You can see how flush the bottom one is on the outside. Turning it around made it flush on the inside. No more chain suck even after 15 miles of salty wet sticky sand.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Curious about going tubeless. I know ride quality and flat resistance are benefits but I see alot of people doing it for weight purpose. After all said and done how much are you really saving over using a lightweight tube? Say a standard tube weighs 450 and a lightweight tube is 250= savings of 200. Tubeless, you're still using a tube, plus tape/ batting or both plus whatever sealant. Not knowing weight of tape,batting,sealant I cant imagine it being much lighter than a lightweight tube after all. For those of you who have switched over (specifically ghetto tubeless) if you can share your finding. Thanks.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Going to just QTubes or another lighter tube will save you weight over the stock tubes. In many circumstances, but even moreso with fat bikes (because of tape, amount of sealant, etc), tubeless MIGHT garner you some weight savings, but not likely much- the real benefit is in ride quality and flat resistance.


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## tjdog800 (Aug 3, 2012)

wrecognize said:


> Curious about going tubeless... For those of you who have switched over (specifically ghetto tubeless) if you can share your finding. Thanks.


I went ghetto for marginal weight savings over full Q-tubes, and better ride quality, but primarily for flat resistance. "Fatty" tires are not as capable to deflect trail awful (thorns in my area) and tend to take it in the tread more often compared to my "skinny tire" MTB. Getto with Stan's has saved me a few times already.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Just got an update from UPS for the FB4 Elite and it is in the truck!


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

tjdog800 said:


> I went ghetto for marginal weight savings over full Q-tubes, and better ride quality, but primarily for flat resistance. "Fatty" tires are not as capable to deflect trail awful (thorns in my area) and tend to take it in the tread more often compared to my "skinny tire" MTB. Getto with Stan's has saved me a few times already.


I'm new to the fat bikes are you saying that Stans provides a slime effect? Would it be stupid to just fill the tubes with Slime or is it a good idea. I have an electric Giant Twist that came stock with Slime tires and Slime tubes and it hasn't had a flat yet.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

puchcobra said:


> Just got an update from UPS for the FB4 Elite and it is in the truck!


Lucky bastard.....

Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## idinomac (Apr 5, 2009)

johnkcoyle said:


> i'm curious: Why replace the rear derailleur? The alivio seems to be working fine - is there a compelling reason? (weight?) same goes for the cassette.
> 
> Most fun ride recently has been over 5" of snow that is now frozen hardpack w/ a 1" dusting - the whole world and an entire forest preserve are essentially "paved" and the 1" on top makes it like floating - i just ride wherever i want - through the trees, across ponds. Also it was quite fun to sneak into the local ski hill after dark and ride up, then down - the moguls were a blast!


If you are sneaking onto the local ski trails then chances are that they don't want fat bikes there and you are not going about it the right way and when someone goes to them and ask if they will let fat bikes ride their trails that they groom, they are not going to even want to talk about letting fat bikes in on the ski trails ever!


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## idinomac (Apr 5, 2009)

jwilds1 said:


> Thanks. This is going to be my first new bike in a long time. I have a Spec. 26er hard tail and a Spec. Tricross single speed. Believe it or not, a fatbike may end up being a commuter. I have a 13 mile route to work on very busy suburban streets but I can take some railroad tracks and turn it into a 7 mile route.
> 
> The bike would also be a fun trail bike, so your point about the rims is taken.[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## tjdog800 (Aug 3, 2012)

puchcobra said:


> I'm new to the fat bikes are you saying that Stans provides a slime effect? Would it be stupid to just fill the tubes with Slime or is it a good idea. I have an electric Giant Twist that came stock with Slime tires and Slime tubes and it hasn't had a flat yet.


Yes. Stan's provides a similar flat resistance capability to Slime. I use a two scoops in my fat getto tubeless setups and it has plugged a couple thorn punctures on the trail. It also seals up the bead-tube interface on the getto tubeless setup.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Ok stans sounds cool but when guys say they had to lower the psi from 5 to 1.5 on a trail wouldn't a tubeless with stans clog the schrader in the deflation.


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## tjdog800 (Aug 3, 2012)

puchcobra said:


> Ok stans sounds cool but when guys say they had to lower the psi from 5 to 1.5 on a trail wouldn't a tubeless with stans clog the schrader in the deflation.


Stan's will clot a puncture when the liquid is over the hole. My last puncture was in my sidewall and I had to get my bike on it's side to seal it up. I've never had any issues adding or removing air.


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## robm6107 (May 23, 2009)

I'll 2nd That!!!


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## jfaust97 (Oct 1, 2004)

Since there are 51 pages of posts I may have missed any discussion on the Framed Minnesota 2.0?

First Look: $899 'Minnesota' Fat Bike | Gear Review | Gear Junkie

Anyone comparing this to the Motos?

Looks like the Nashbar one is available now too?


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

jfaust97 said:


> Since there are 51 pages of posts I may have missed any discussion on the Framed Minnesota 2.0?
> 
> First Look: $899 'Minnesota' Fat Bike | Gear Review | Gear Junkie
> 
> ...


The Minnesota discussion is here.

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/minnesota-1-0-2-0-fatbikes-886521.html

I kept debating between the Minnesota 2.0 and Boris X9. Early indication was that the Minnesota would be available in early February and I kept telling myself that it was possible that the Boris X9 would be available Feb 25th with a chance that it would only be March 25th. I kept telling myself to wait it out and order the Boris X9 since it could possibly only be 2 extra weeks to get it.

Last week Framed Bikes who make the Minnesota said that the Minnesota 2.0 were coming in ahead of scheduled and were tentatively scheduled to ship on January 23rd or 24th.

That was the push I needed to order a White and Orange Minnesota 2.0. I picked the Slick 29er wheelset as my freebie wheelset.


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## GalenCopes (Dec 5, 2013)

I actually canceled my order of a Boris a while back and ordered the Minnesota 2.0 in silver/red. It just seemed like a much better deal once you throw in the extra set of wheels...plus I will get it at least a month earlier than I would have the Boris. 

Galen


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Good news for those who have a Motobecane FB4 on order.

This was posted on the BikesDirect Facebook earlier

Good News, Everyone!

We have received word that our Motobecane FB4 Fat Bikes will be arriving earlier than we anticipated!
FB4 Elite and Pro models are on the water, and we expect these any day from January 22nd to February 1st.
FB4 Comps will be arriving between February 1st and 18th.

We're sure you're all as stoked as we are to hear this news!
Just when you thought you had less time to fly over the snow this winter!

If you haven't placed an order, be sure to do so immediately! These bikes WILL sell out once they land!


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Now hating that I changed my order to the Boris.... But don't think I'll regret it once it arrives! The Minnesota fat bike is tempting with the two wheel sets.... But think I'm going to hold strong!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

They also posted this on their Facebook page. So it looks like once this current shipment of Motobecane Fat Bike sell out, we won't be seeing anymore until fall. But they will be offering 2 more models. I think one of the rumored model was a Boris X7 build.

Bikesdirect
8 hours ago
Attention Fat Bike Fans!

We are about to order more Fat Bike FB4 for next fall, including two new models.
Color options are plentiful; including rim strips [that show though rim holes]

What color of rim strips would you most like to see?
We would love to incorporate the opinions of our facebook followers in Fall Fat Bike Orders

RIM STRIP OPTIONS
Royal blue
Bright Green {What Motobecane uses now}
Light blue
Black
White
Red
Yellow


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## grejji (Apr 25, 2010)

Hi guys. I noticed a lot of folks opting for the boris over the fb4. I just wanted to know what was the motivation. I'm trying to decide between the two. I know the 2x10 is attractive, but the mechanicals are not attractive to me. I'm guessing the 'moly fork will be stronger but heavier.

To me, the boris looks a bit burlier and a bit more trail oriented. Perhaps it might be nicer to jump or drop than the fb4 and it might be more suited to handle such abuse. And the tradeoff would be weight and efficiency. Am I way off here?


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

I went with the Boris for a few reasons. One is the drivetrain 2x10 I wanted as it gives a better range for me. The bb7 brakes were my preference over the availiable hydros. Weight wasn't a concern for me as heck they are just heavy... I have a 3x9 on my current mtb and wanted something different.
Ride a pugs and wanted deeper gearing for whatever I ended up with. Lord knows I won't leave it alone...

Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Went with cheaper one, changing most of components anyway. Already changed r/d, shifters,saddle,grips. Seatpost, bars,stem ,tires and tubes next. Have most of the stuff laying around already so why not use it.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah don't have the parts pile to dig into so figured it was better for me. New bars, pedals sitting at home, will replace them as well as tires/tubes rim strips before I ride it. 


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Nice good luck, I'm always swapping and making changes. Thats just me, cant leave anything alone.


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## grejji (Apr 25, 2010)

Thanks everyone. Seems like the main reason is components rather than geo. I guess without them both being available to ride, you can't really make a decision based on ride.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

I ordered a green comp. for the Mrs. and waited to long to get a 17" for myself so went with a Boris.
The Boris has the BB7's, wheels have drilled single walled rims and cartridge bearigs, type 2 rear Deailleur, and it's half the price of the KHS.
In hind site I really wish I had gone Boris for the Mrs. but missed the boat on the 15"ers
On a positive note the Mrs. comp looks to be coming earlier than first projected.


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## RocktonRider (Nov 30, 2010)

Hey Anthem1, where did you get your information on the hub bearings and rims? Just curious... I haven't seen any real specifications on the hubs, and the KHS site gives the model number for single-wall rims, but specifically states double wall.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

RocktonRider said:


> Hey Anthem1, where did you get your information on the hub bearings and rims? Just curious... I haven't seen any real specifications on the hubs, and the KHS site gives the model number for single-wall rims, but specifically states double wall.


Hey Rock, I am speculating on the wheels. HL vs. DHL in the description altho it does mention double wall in the same descript.
Looking at the Khs pics, the rim strip buldges like a single wall.khs 4 seasons 3000 - Bing Images


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

The FB4 Elite was delivered early this morning, I heard one person gasp and go whoa when I rode through town. The black looks great and the rims are cool. I had to add 2 thin washers on the front wheel to stop it from rubbing on the brake pads, and the front rotor is out of true just a titch. 





​


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## newfydog (May 8, 2009)

My wife's FB4 Elite came yesterday. No sign of mine (aarrghh) It went together in a flash---the stem was 180 degrees reversed, but brakes and shifting are perfect.

The seatpost is cheap, heavy, and too short for me to ride it much, but what a fun bike!

I went to four local shops for a spare tube---they all sell the bikes, none carry the tubes. And they wonder why we mail order everything! 

PS a bit of research showed a Q-tube 2.4-3.0 stretches out nicely and saves weight---I ordered some of those. Tubeless battle will be fought later.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Do most hydrolic brakes use a cotter pin? Seems a little lazy and janky to me


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Anyone know the weights on moto fantom components? Bars, stem, seatpost.... Been to lazy to take apart myself and weigh.


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## cboyd1974 (Sep 7, 2012)

Does any have any opinions on sizing. I am 5'11" and have a 30.5 inseam. A little worried about only a 1" clearance on stand over height. Should I go to next size down for more clearance. Any opinions would be great.
Thanks


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## Truitnow (Dec 31, 2013)

cboyd1974 said:


> Does any have any opinions on sizing. I am 5'11" and have a 30.5 inseam. A little worried about only a 1" clearance on stand over height. Should I go to next size down for more clearance. Any opinions would be great.
> Thanks


Which Moto are you considering?


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## cboyd1974 (Sep 7, 2012)

The fantom elite. The Boris is already sold out


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## Truitnow (Dec 31, 2013)

I gave up the Elite and switched to a Boris X9. Also have a Minnesota 2.0 on order for my Son.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

wrecognize said:


> Anyone know the weights on moto fantom components? Bars, stem, seatpost.... Been to lazy to take apart myself and weigh.


I weighed and collected some weights from other posters. It is a long ways back in this thread somewhere.

See if this works.
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/moto-bikes-direct-fatbikes-875900-27.html#post10761727


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Thanks Chader, I have the green fantom. So far I changed shifters to slx, r/d to xt, xt cassette, removed big ring for race face bashguard, q tubes,saddle to soma saddle( not really lighter but looks better). Picking up thomson masterpiece seatpost and thomson x4 stem tuesday. Looking for a lighter bar as well. Thinking about some 3.8's instead of the 4's on there now. Anyone who made the switch?


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## grejji (Apr 25, 2010)

Just pulled the trigger on a boris!

Can't wait to float on 3' of powder while laughing maniacally! (sarcasm)


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

3'? I thought it was 6' with ease!!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Whats the stock weight on a 17" fantom? Got mine used so had a few changes already. I made quite a few upgrades and still seems to be just under 35lbs.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

wrecognize said:


> Whats the stock weight on a 17" fantom? Got mine used so had a few changes already. I made quite a few upgrades and still seems to be just under 35lbs.


According to a reported weight 36.4 lbs.


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

wrecognize said:


> Whats the stock weight on a 17" fantom? Got mine used so had a few changes already. I made quite a few upgrades and still seems to be just under 35lbs.


Get O'Beast fork, Next cranks, tubless 127 tpi. There's about 7 pounds under $700. That puts you at 28#. The price per # goes up substantially from there.

This is assuming you've dropped/replaced the big ring, casette, seat post, bar, and stem with parts from the bin. That's another 2#.

So you're actually at 26#.


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## PerraHunter (Nov 3, 2013)

I am really interested in one of the Motobecane fat bikes. I have an early '70's Motobecane Grand Touring, and while the current company has no relation to the old French company, I think it would be neat to have both a road and dirt bike of the same brand.

So here is my question: Comparing the Boris vs. the Fantom, which bike would be a better trail bike? You know, all around dirt riding. Unimproved woods roads and paths, single track, power lines and so on. How about skills like manuals/wheelies, bunny hops, log drops etc. Never is a big word, but I don't see myself riding much in the snow. I also have a nice Rockhopper to ride on the maintained bike trails (Patapsco, Shaffer, Russell Mills, Burlington Land Locked, etc.)

TIA

Ps. I asked the same question about the Minnesota 1 & 2, over in that thread.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I don't think there would be a huge difference between those bikes in the dirt. There may be minor differences in the geometries between the two, but in my limited experience with fat bikes (I bought an FB4 in October) the biggest difference maker is the tires. After all these are just rigid bikes with fat tires. I believe both of those bikes have 4" Vee Rubber Mission tires - those tires maybe ok in the snow (I changed them before winter), but if your dirt riding includes any kind of slab rocks you should expect to change them - they grab in a strange way when you ride on any solid surface - rock, asphalt etc and create pretty dramatic "self-steer". I bought a pair of the On One Floaters and the ride improved dramatically.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

I have the fantom for a short period of time also, im going to be using it on singletrack for the majority of the time. Winters we have snow and ice but not usually a huge amount. So far I really liked riding it on the trails, good responsiveness, tires make it very smooth. Havent come across anything I cant tackle with the fat bike that I can with my other bikes. Thinking of giving a set of 3.8's a shot just to see the difference. Sure you'll be happy with either one.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

I've only ridden singletrack with my FB4, no snow here. I'm running Knard 3.8 rear and BFL front, when summer hits my might swap the BFL for a Knard, but so far I've had no complaints.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Samox crankset is 904g compared to race face next carbon at 645g


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## jwilds1 (Dec 21, 2013)

Couldn't take the wait any more. Was waiting for Comp's to come back in stock, but I suffer from "Gotta Have it Now" syndrome, so I pulled the trigger on a 17" Elite. Can't wait.

Now have to figure out a fatbike solution for my 9-year old...


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

There such thing as a "mud tire", or at least one that can somewhat handle those conditions? The stock vee mission was horrible, might as well have been on slicks. Where i live the weather is very sketchy, we had a 40+ degree diff from day to night the other day. I dont make it a habit of riding in those conditions but much of it was unexpected. With that being said, looking for an all around tire set up. Majority of riding will be on singletrack, mainly hardpacked some softer sandier, roots, not a whole lot of rocks.


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## CC-John (Jun 2, 2012)

wrecognize said:


> There such thing as a "mud tire", or at least one that can somewhat handle those conditions? The stock vee mission was horrible, might as well have been on slicks. Where i live the weather is very sketchy, we had a 40+ degree diff from day to night the other day. I dont make it a habit of riding in those conditions but much of it was unexpected. With that being said, looking for an all around tire set up. Majority of riding will be on singletrack, mainly hardpacked some softer sandier, roots, not a whole lot of rocks.


From all the tire threads I've read while waiting on my Boris to come in, most are in agreement that a set of Nates or On-One Floaters make the best "all-around" setup for trail riding or muddy conditions..


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## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

anyone try the stock tires out on sand? I ordered a Boris for beach rides


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Kawidan said:


> The Minnesota discussion is here.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/minnesota-1-0-2-0-fatbikes-886521.html
> 
> ...


Why, why, WHY?! ... Did I have to see this?!?! lol

A 18" white/orange MN 2.0 with the extra 29er slick tires was just put on my VISA...

My fiance' is going to shoot me. She wants to redo the bathroom and I just bought another MTB...


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## cm11599ps (Nov 27, 2013)

puchcobra said:


> The FB4 Elite was delivered early this morning, I heard one person gasp and go whoa when I rode through town. The black looks great and the rims are cool. I had to add 2 thin washers on the front wheel to stop it from rubbing on the brake pads, and the front rotor is out of true just a titch.
> View attachment 861620​


What size did you get? Any idea on the weight? I ordered the small version and my UPS tracking email says it's only 30 lbs. Could that be true?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

cm11599ps said:


> What size did you get? Any idea on the weight? I ordered the small version and my UPS tracking email says it's only 30 lbs. Could that be true?


Unless they filled the tires with helium it will weigh around 35 pounds out of the box, maybe slightly less for a small.


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## cm11599ps (Nov 27, 2013)

Jisch said:


> Unless they filled the tires with helium it will weigh around 35 pounds out of the box, maybe slightly less for a small.


Well, that would help explain how the bike can "Float over three feet of soft powder snow or deep sugar sand......"


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

I have the 15 inch Elite and it weighs 36LBS with some very heavy platform pedals that I put on. Today I bought a bunch of lightweight components on ebay and it only shaved 2 pounds off the setup. The weight is in the wheels I went with the 2.75 q-tubes and will get some lighter tires next.
this is a list of tire weights Tire Weights for Fat-Bikes | FAT-BIKE.COM


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

I changed majority of components and still heavy, just under 35lbs (17"). Thought tires were in the 1500+ gram weight? Even changing tires still will only shave maybe a pound. Prob wheels more than tires, but a much larger investment. Also being a fat bike and myself weighing 235 not sure how much money Im willing to invest. Prob just trying to convince myself to stop buying more stuff, of course I'd like a lighter bike. Who wouldnt? So far i added slx shifters,xt r/d,xt cassette,cut 2 inches off bars,big ring for bashguard,thomson stem and seatpost,soma saddle,q tubes,odi rouges,eggbeaters.


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## cm11599ps (Nov 27, 2013)

What color pedals are you guys putting on the Black/Green Elite?


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## newfydog (May 8, 2009)

Yep, the15" is 36 lbs with pedals. The local shop thought that front rim with green tape looked pretty cool.

We'll ride it hard this weekend, but so far everything works great.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Just weighed my 17" fantom after some tweaking, 34lbs even. Thats without changing factory tires yet.


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## cm11599ps (Nov 27, 2013)

Has anyone received word that they're bike has shipped? I know they weren't supposed to come for at least another month but they changed it and some people got their bikes as early as about 2 weeks ago. Has anyone gotten one like in the past 3 or 4 days?

For those of you who did receive them about 2 weeks ago, when did you order them? I ordered mine around Thanksgiving.


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## zcmack (Apr 19, 2012)

did my first longer snow ride on the on-one floaters. they are so much better than the stock missions it is crazy. i didnt even lower my psi from what i was riding on the road and i only broke traction one time in 10 miles (a short steep icy uphill). the trails were well packed down for the most part but even in the untouched stuff i only got stuck a couple times. i was actually confident descending at speed!

i've commuted a few times on them and i don't notice a resistance difference on pavement either. also, no self-steer! different strokes for different folks but i can't see myself even entertaining the thought of the more expensive surly tires (nate, bud, lou) as i'm smitten by these.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Where did you get them and how much? If you dont mind me asking of course. Saw them at on one site but probably alot in shipping. Thanks.


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## zcmack (Apr 19, 2012)

wrecognize said:


> Where did you get them and how much? If you dont mind me asking of course. Saw them at on one site but probably alot in shipping. Thanks.


got them shipped from on-one.co.uk. if you buy a set, shipping is free. total cost was 128.74 (less than one nate at my lbs). it took about 2-3 weeks to arrive after i placed the order. if you pay a little more at planet x it should arrive sooner as it ships from oregon.


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## hykerwilson (Jan 19, 2014)

I too am wondering when they may be on the road to our doors! I ordered my Orange FB4 on the 16th of November. I am super excited (too) I have designed and built a set of offset clamps (like MCS's) but more adaptable for my application.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

planet x u.s. sold out, will check lbs by me. All they deal with is fat bikes. Thanks.


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

hykerwilson said:


> I too am wondering when they may be on the road to our doors! I ordered my Orange FB4 on the 16th of November. I am super excited (too) I have designed and built a set of offset clamps (like MCS's) but more adaptable for my application.


This was a message posted on the Facebook Page of Bikesdirect on January 8th.

"Good News, Everyone!

We have received word that our Motobecane FB4 Fat Bikes will be arriving earlier than we anticipated!
FB4 Elite and Pro models are on the water, and we expect these any day from January 22nd to February 1st.
FB4 Comps will be arriving between February 1st and 18th.

We're sure you're all as stoked as we are to hear this news!
Just when you thought you had less time to fly over the snow this winter!

If you haven't placed an order, be sure to do so immediately! These bikes WILL sell out once they land!"

So it looks like the Elite and Pro models will possibly be shipping next week while the Comp are still a few weeks away.


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## tjdog800 (Aug 3, 2012)

wrecognize said:


> planet x u.s. sold out, will check lbs by me. All they deal with is fat bikes. Thanks.


Jack's Bike Shop in Bay City Michigan has several on their floor. Pugsley's at good prices.
989-684-1735


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## rossp (Mar 7, 2005)

zcmack said:


> did my first longer snow ride on the on-one floaters. they are so much better than the stock missions it is crazy. i didnt even lower my psi from what i was riding on the road and i only broke traction one time in 10 miles (a short steep icy uphill). the trails were well packed down for the most part but even in the untouched stuff i only got stuck a couple times. i was actually confident descending at speed!
> 
> i've commuted a few times on them and i don't notice a resistance difference on pavement either. also, no self-steer! different strokes for different folks but i can't see myself even entertaining the thought of the more expensive surly tires (nate, bud, lou) as i'm smitten by these.


Just did the same upgrade - have only tried them on an inch or so of snow and bare trail, but way more grip in general than the missions. Plus with the upgrade to the freeride tubes, I saved a pound a wheel. Bring on more snow!


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Here's the latest on the Boris X9 from their Facebook page


Bikesdirect

Update on the Motobecane Boris X9!
These monsters have been in crazy-high demand, and as such have completely sold out.
It's unlikely we will be seeing the Boris again in its current form, but a new version is on the way!
You can expect the same frame design with different specs, coming summer 2014!


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Kawidan said:


> Here's the latest on the Boris X9 from their Facebook page
> 
> Bikesdirect
> 
> ...


And I was hoping this was going to end with a "they are shipping out early!"

Sigh......

Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Can the Boris and the Comp still be ordered? I dont see any size option in the add to cart drop down menu.


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## Truitnow (Dec 31, 2013)

Sold out till next shipment.


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## Bandaman (Jan 21, 2014)

Saw on Facebook today that more comps are available for preorder. 
Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane 2014 Fantom FB4 Comp
I spent several days in my free time reading this thread and was disappointed when I got to the end and the bikes were sold out! Since then I've done more research and can't decide to pull the trigger or upgrade from the start. Looks like a good way to test the waters on a fatty.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I agree this is a good bike to test the waters on a fat bike. $300 of upgrades gets you a bike that is pretty comparable with a Pugsley. Of course the resale value is going to be crap on this bike, so you have to consider that.


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news for those waiting on the Boris X9. Looks like they won't land until around March 15th 

Here's the latest update from BikesDirect Facebook page.


Bikesdirect

Listen up! We've got some news on the Boris X9!

Due to some rim and tire delays, our factory partners have advised a sailing date of just after the Chinese New Year.
So, with the speed of the Green Horse, the Boris' will be on their way to us very soon! They will land in Texas around March 15th.
BD will drop-ship via UPS to all customers within 24 hours of unloading the Boris container!

We appreciate your patience with these fat bikes. Believe us, we're as excited and anxious for our loyal customers to be riding them as you all are!


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Painful..... Painful news.... Hell what's another month after waiting this long.... Grrrrrrrrr
Appreciate the update

Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## grejji (Apr 25, 2010)

Charles NOOOOOO! All my snow will be melted by then.

I am happy that they told us though... this way I don't buy pricey snow tires that I won't use for 6 months. Now for a two month test of patience...


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## Truitnow (Dec 31, 2013)

Well that's great news. My LBS has a carbon Beargrease @ $400 less the listed price. Think I may head down the road and pick it up. Another Boris may become available folks. Oh yeah.... delivery wouldn't be till march......maybe. ...


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

The latest news on the Boris has me contemplating jumping on one of the newly available comps, considering the cost to upgrade the drivetrain to make it sevicable, my rational side says be patient, but the comp is very tempting with its earlier than expected ship date.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm with ya... But trying to hold on and wait,,,,,


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## wilburspud (Sep 23, 2013)

We cannot be to upset because we should be getting the bikes within there originally estimated delivery dates. We must be patient and wait for it!


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## grejji (Apr 25, 2010)

hmm... if those missions are the holdup, I'd be cool with them shipping the bike first and the tire later. The missions will be summer rubber for me anyway.

Better yet, they could just ship them with snowshoes or floaters. I would accept that


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Anthem1 said:


> The latest news on the Boris has me contemplating jumping on one of the newly available comps, considering the cost to upgrade the drivetrain to make it sevicable, my rational side says be patient, but the comp is very tempting with its earlier than expected ship date.


I'm shopping for 2 Fat Bikes. I ordered a Minnesota 2.0 in early January and was holding off ordering a Boris X9 until I got a more concrete ship date. I was a bit bummed out when I heard that they had sold out but that's a risk I was willing to take until I got updated info on the tentative ship date.

So once I found out that the Boris X9 was sold out, I was debating between ordering a second Minnesota 2.0 or ordering the Nashbar Fat Bike. I was kind of leaning towards the Nashbar just so I'd have something different. But yesterday to make things interesting, they are once again offering a 15" Orange Comp to order. That would probably make an awesome bike for the GF.

So now I'm debating either ordering a 15" Orange Comp for the GF or holding off on the decision until I get my hands on my Minnesota. Chances are that the 15" Comp will probably sell out before the Minnesota comes in so it's a gamble. Decisions, Decisions!!!

I guess worst comes to worst, I could order the Nashbar if the Comp sells out.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Kawidan said:


> But yesterday to make things interesting, they are once again offering a 15" Orange Comp to order. That would probably make an awesome bike for the GF.


What's this Orange Comp and who is offering it?


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

TheNormsk said:


> What's this Orange Comp and who is offering it?


Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane 2014 Fantom FB4 Comp


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## rjribb (Dec 11, 2008)

Here you go Norm:

Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane 2014 Fantom FB4 Comp


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## SLCBKR22 (Apr 1, 2011)

For those of you who have ordered the FB4, have any of you received notice of shipping yet? Do you know if we will be emailed again once they have shipped or do we need to keep checking the UPS tracking number they gave us at the time of the order?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

You'll get an email when it ships (or I did when I got mine back in October).


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

They're availability on these bikes is getting frustrating. The comp's were sold out and then there's availability for them all of a sudden. They said the Boris was sold out and at this moment they're showing 19'' & 21" available for preorder. 

Torn between ordering a Boris while it's showing available for a spring arrival or waiting for the new models in the summer. I wish we had some specs on the upcoming models.


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

For the Boris X9, it could be that once they announced the March 15th arrival date some people might of decided to cancel their orders and go with the Pro or Elite model instead since they are scheduled to ship any day now which could explain the availability of the Boris X9.


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## robm6107 (May 23, 2009)

Since the announcement about the Boris, I fear an message (or wouldn't be surprised to see) stating that the Pro/Elite will be delayed (for some unknown reason) for-well lets say-March. I'm giving up to the latest date posted (currently Feb 1), after that, I'm out & cancelling my order. Will See.


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## cm11599ps (Nov 27, 2013)

robm6107 said:


> Since the announcement about the Boris, I fear an message (or wouldn't be surprised to see) stating that the Pro/Elite will be delayed (for some unknown reason) for-well lets say-March. I'm giving up to the latest date posted (currently Feb 1), after that, I'm out & cancelling my order. Will See.


The comp, pro and elite models were announced to be coming about a month earlier then expected. They said they had already been shipped from overseas. This announcement was made about 2 weeks ago. I don't remember seeing any news about the Boris being early.

Just my own thinking here, but I suspect the only problem is with the Boris, and the elite, pro and comps will arrive shortly. I hope so, I want my elite!


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

I just put Q-Tubes in the Elite 15 inch and now it's 34.2 pounds. I Replaced the seat tube clamp, seat, stem and pedals. I found a dent in the rim and the rim tape was off track a few mm over the presta hole. Wow they just threw these together, i wish I bought the Boris instead.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Hopefully the Boris will turn out worth the wait! Guessing there will be the same issues with assembly no matter which model you get.


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## Icey101 (Jan 15, 2012)

Tried door foam ghetto tubeless setup, didn't care for it. Slimed tubes having issues with front tire leaking still. Current setup is split tube, and so far it seems to be working the best, it almost seated with floor pump (I think if it was higher end one it would have). Front wheel/tire setup is down .5 lbs from previous slimed thinner than stock tube(forgot brand).
Built super fast, I have not seen any issues with my Fatbike. I also have a 650b from BD and its wheels seemed to be quick built with minor dings and rough spoke edges and such though. Nothing you would see unless you took the tire or cogs off though.


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## Fat-nor (Oct 1, 2013)

The original


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## T Wing (Oct 16, 2013)

So... Has anyone had to replace the chain? I'm having a hard time finding a 120 link chain... 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## 2Tall2Bike (May 20, 2009)

I've been lurking on this thread for a while without comment, I ordered a Boris back in December, now just suffering on my 29er hardtail until it comes. Bummed to have amazing winter riding conditions and no fatbike. Boris is still the way to go, sweet specs and 1/2 price of KHS twin. BD posted that they had 2 19" and 2 21" that were now available, that is it. Wish the Boris was coming sooner, but the FB4 not an option for me, at 6'5", needed a 21" not a little 19" ;-)

Glad I did not wait for the Nashbar bike, it pales in comparison to either Boris or FB4.


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## robm6107 (May 23, 2009)

I too feel your (& others) pain not just in having to wait for which ever bike that you may have ordered. I'm on my 29er stud riding either trails or bike rte/paths, tho w/o the pain you stated. Having a excellent winter here & am not missing (or at least trying not to) a beat to what mother nature has offered so far, although have been seeing tire treads wider than my studded tires going to places where no bike could venture no matter what winter set-up you may have on a 26/29, full sus/hard tail. That was a bummer for me to see.


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## mulveyr (Jan 27, 2014)

For what it's worth, I just canceled my order for a FB4 15" Pro because I was able to pick up a Pugsley Necromancer for a very good price locally. So there should be at least one small FB4 listed as being in stock. ;-)

I have to give BD kudos for the VERY fast service; I sent in my cancellation email on Sunday and this morning they had already refunded the price to my Paypal account, no muss or fuss.


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## cm11599ps (Nov 27, 2013)

OK, weird. I ordered a 15" Elite at the end of November and didn't' expect the bike until late February or late March. Then BD updated their facebook page to say the bikes are coming a lot sooner then expected and I saw people on the boards were already receiving them so I thought mine was right around the corner. I checked my inbox a few times daily and nothing.

About 30 minutes ago I was going through some old voice mails on my phone. One of them was from BD on January 6 letting me know my bike was in stock and if it was OK to ship it. 

Anyway, I called them back today and they are shipping the bike right now. I can't wait!


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## dbauer (Jul 15, 2009)

Ordered a Comp today!


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

I received an email today saying that my FB4 Elite will ship on Monday the 3rd. Sounds like the ship has landed. 

Indianapolis doesn't really know how to maintain winter roads and bike lanes, and I decided to go car free this year, so a fat bike was a logical choice for winter commutes. The fun factor is just a bonus!
Kinda strange to suddenly be wishing for a longer winter after one that has been so brutal, but then again it was the brutality that informed my purchasing decision in the first place.

Okay, going to go make friends with Punxsutawney Phil now...


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## grejji (Apr 25, 2010)

AdamJay said:


> I received an email today saying that my FB4 Elite will ship on Monday the 3rd. Sounds like the ship has landed.
> 
> Indianapolis doesn't really know how to maintain winter roads and bike lanes, and I decided to go car free this year, so a fat bike was a logical choice for winter commutes. The fun factor is just a bonus!
> Kinda strange to suddenly be wishing for a longer winter after one that has been so brutal, but then again it was the brutality that informed my purchasing decision in the first place.
> ...


Oh don't worry. You're good till my Boris arrives. Expect a foot of snow every Saturday and Sunday until March 15. From then on it'll be dry and 70 (and then my enduro will break). Hahaha.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

I am trying to order online using paypal and I get the message "The payment cannot be completed and your account has not been charged. Please contact your merchant for more information" Has anyone else experienced this? What am I doing wrong?


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## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

grejji said:


> Oh don't worry. You're good till my Boris arrives. Expect a foot of snow every Saturday and Sunday until March 15. From then on it'll be dry and 70 (and then my enduro will break). Hahaha.


DC will probably get a really late 5" snowfall that will melt the day my Boris shows up!


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

from BD's Facebook page:



> "GOOD News - Truckline has promised to deliver Motobecane FB4 Elites and Pro Fatbikes on Friday.
> 
> IF they do - They will ship out on that FRIDAY.
> 
> Please allow up to 2 business days for UPS time to update tracking info/show movement. Yippee!!!"


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## dbauer (Jul 15, 2009)

abelfonseca, they may be out of stock.

I ordered a FB4 Comp yesterday and received confirmation today. They also attached a tracking number with ship date of 2/18/2014.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

on twitter just now 
GOOD News - Truckline has promised to deliver Motobecane FB4 Elites and Pro Fatbikes on Friday. 

IF they do - They will ship out on that FRIDAY. 

Please allow up to 2 business days for UPS time to update tracking info/show movement. Yippee!!!


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## 2Tall2Bike (May 20, 2009)

*Gonna be a nice dry spring in Upstate NY too....*



grejji said:


> Oh don't worry. You're good till my Boris arrives. Expect a foot of snow every Saturday and Sunday until March 15. From then on it'll be dry and 70 (and then my enduro will break). Hahaha.


AGREE !!! 2 of my riding buddies ordered FB4's (short guys), I am waiting for my 21" Boris to arrive. They are psyched, surely will be snow on the ground until the day before the Boris arrives, then a nice dry snow free spring in Upstate NY. You can thank me later, donations welcome


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## MIYAGITAMALES (Jan 29, 2014)

Hi - I just saw that this company Minnesota Frame 2.0 fatbike - same price as the FB4.
How fast did you cancel and received your refund? 

Thanks-
Miyagitamales


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## MIYAGITAMALES (Jan 29, 2014)

mulveyr said:


> For what it's worth, I just canceled my order for a FB4 15" Pro because I was able to pick up a Pugsley Necromancer for a very good price locally. So there should be at least one small FB4 listed as being in stock. ;-)
> 
> I have to give BD kudos for the VERY fast service; I sent in my cancellation email on Sunday and this morning they had already refunded the price to my Paypal account, no muss or fuss.


Hi - I'm looking to cancel my order as well. I saw a Minnesota 2.0 Frame that comes with extra tires. Did you have to pay any penalty fee or restock charge to get back your refund?

Thanks-
Joe


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## mulveyr (Jan 27, 2014)

MIYAGITAMALES said:


> Hi - I'm looking to cancel my order as well. I saw a Minnesota 2.0 Frame that comes with extra tires. Did you have to pay any penalty fee or restock charge to get back your refund?
> 
> Thanks-
> Joe


Nope! I just responded to the original order confirmation email with the subject "URGENT ORDER CHANGE", requested the cancellation and refund, and it was done the morning of the next business day. No additional charges/etc at all, since the bike hadn't shipped yet.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

I looked long and hard at the Minnesota 2.0s myself. In the end, I stuck with my FB4 Elite order due to the Hydraulic disc brakes, and realization that the value of the "fattie slim" wheel/tire set wasn't really as good as advertised, after all. Also, my other bikes are Shimano and I often swap parts around so a SRAM bike in the mix wasn't appealing. Plus the Minnesota 2s all sold out in 20" and I'm a 19"/20" size.

That said, I do have a friend who only has room for one bike, and the Minnesota 2.0 with extra wheelset would be perfect for him.


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## newfydog (May 8, 2009)

Just got an email that my FB4 elite is shipping!

Nice because my wife has had hers a few weeks.


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## robm6107 (May 23, 2009)

Just got my email as well for the elite. As posted on the Face, doing an Irish Jig.


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## 2Tall2Bike (May 20, 2009)

*Jealousy is an terrible thing*

I am green with envy :cryin:

Really, I am happy for all you guys who will soon be riding large on your FB4's


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah only about another 2 months until the Boris ships.... (Sounds better than 60 long days)


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## cm11599ps (Nov 27, 2013)

Got my Elite today!


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

Anyone attempt to put a 10spd cassette on a Fantom FB4 yet? I'd really like to use some parts I have on hand (cassette, derailleur and shifter). Don't have my bike yet, just trying to prepare.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I haven't, but a 10spd cassette is the same width as a 9 speed. You will need a new rear derailleur and shifter, but you probably knew that already.


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

Jisch said:


> I haven't, but a 10spd cassette is the same width as a 9 speed. You will need a new rear derailleur and shifter, but you probably knew that already.


Thank you! I was worried about the driveline spacing. Originally planned on a non-offset bike, 135/170 but took a chance on this bike for the $$$


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## manfromwillow (Sep 15, 2012)

JonL said:


> Anyone attempt to put a 10spd cassette on a Fantom FB4 yet? I'd really like to use some parts I have on hand (cassette, derailleur and shifter). Don't have my bike yet, just trying it to prepare.


Yes. I put a ten speed on mine so I would have the 36t sprocket. I also took out the second smallest sprocket (13t i think) so i could use my current 9spd set up. I also went with a 10spd chain to get It to work. So far so good.


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

manfromwillow said:


> Yes. I put a ten speed on mine so I would have the 36t sprocket. I also took out the second smallest sprocket (13t i think) so i could use my current 9spd set up. I also went with a 10spd chain to get It to work. So far so good.


Thank you. My plan is 11/36 in the back and losing the big ring up front.


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

Jisch said:


> I haven't, but a 10spd cassette is the same width as a 9 speed. You will need a new rear derailleur and shifter, but you probably knew that already.


Jisch... a few threads ago you mentioned that some upgrades bring this bike in line with a Pugsly. What upgrades might you be referencing? Overall, how happy are you with the bike? I cannot seem to find many reviews.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I am really happy with the bike, I ride it a lot, I probably have more miles on dirt than in snow at this point. I swapped the cassette (weight), rear derailleur (the Alivio sucked!), swapped the big chain ring for a bash, tires (I didn't like the Missions), set them up tubeless, grips (I like Ourys) and I put a Specialized dropper post on it. I've got about 200 miles on it and I haven't found any other weak parts, the frame seems very solid, no worries at all.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Jisch, What didn't you like about the Alivio RD? Which RD did you install, and how do you feel about it with the Alivio shifters?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

The Alivio shifters are great, no complaints (which is kind of surprising). The Alivio rear derailleur is crap. The chain bounced around like crazy, it jumped gears any time I rode over anything significantly technical. I have an XT on there now, but an SLX would have done fine as well (I had an XT in the parts bin).


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

Jisch said:


> I am really happy with the bike, I ride it a lot, I probably have more miles on dirt than in snow at this point. I swapped the cassette (weight), rear derailleur (the Alivio sucked!), swapped the big chain ring for a bash, tires (I didn't like the Missions), set them up tubeless, grips (I like Ourys) and I put a Specialized dropper post on it. I've got about 200 miles on it and I haven't found any other weak parts, the frame seems very solid, no worries at all.


This is the feedback I was looking for. I plan on going 2x10 with a bashgaurd, have an x9 with shifter and a 1070 cassette already. Also went with Oury grips. Not sure I am ready to take on the tubless project on a fat tire just yet... probably run through the Missions first.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Solid plan, that was mine as well. The self-steer on the Missions started to really bug me, the On Ones are much better. You don't need to do it right away, maybe you'll be ok with them. Even if you keep the Missions, look into getting some of those lighter tubes - the ones that come with the bike are the usual fat bike tubes, they are very heavy.


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

JonL said:


> I cannot seem to find many reviews.


I suppose I never got around to that either. I'm pretty happy with mine, too. I've got 700 miles on mine, split between Minneapolis winter commuting and single-track / snowy trail riding. Overall the bike is pretty decent. I haven't owned any other fatbikes, so I can't really compare it to them, but I'm pretty picky about bikes, and I don't have any major complaints. I personally consider it to be a good, cheap, starting point to upgrade to exactly what you want. 
The RD isn't great. It can be a bit slow to shift, and sometimes has issues shifting into certain gears. It isn't bad enough that I've bothered to replace it, but it's on my "eventually" list. 
Personally, I didn't like the seat, handlebars, or grips, so I replaced all of those. Seat and grips are very subjective, and I'm a bit slim, so wide handlebars are uncomfortable for me. For the single-track here, I found the stock Mission tires to be just fine, but they obviously weren't designed for snow. I replaced them with Husker Du Ultralights, which are incredible in the snow. Sometimes I want something wider, though. 
My current project is the front chainrings. Over time, I have found that I only use the middle one, so I figure I can shave some weight and moving parts by making it a 1x9. I'm currently at 2x9 just by removing the big chainring, but the chain falls off or down onto the small ring sometimes in sticky situations, even with the derailleur there. I just ordered up a Race Face variable tooth ring to see how that works before I replace the derailleur with a simple chain guide and give up my ability to shift the chain back into place. I should probably also remove a few chain links, since it doesn't need to go around the big chainring anymore. For my use, I don't see any need to make it 1x10 or 1x11. Even staying in the middle ring, I rarely venture outside of the middle 5 cogs.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Thanks for clarifying. Jenson has SLX rears for $53 right now and I was already eyeing an upgrade for when my Elite arrives next week.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Look around - I got an XT for $60 not too long ago (it was for my RIP9). I got it through Jenson, but used a price match from somewhere else, I forget where.


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## hykerwilson (Jan 19, 2014)

*Ghost Shifting (in general).*



Jisch said:


> The Alivio shifters are great, no complaints (which is kind of surprising). The Alivio rear derailleur is crap. The chain bounced around like crazy, it jumped gears any time I rode over anything significantly technical. I have an XT on there now, but an SLX would have done fine as well (I had an XT in the parts bin).


although I have not gotten my bike yet, and I can't say anything about the quality to the Alivo derailleur, some of the problems that you guys are having may have something do to with the rear hanger being bent out of place.

I just bought a frame off ebay for my wife and it would not keep the last three in gear or get in gear properly. I have a friend who has a hanger tweaker bar. I bent it back, close to normal and it is night and day. So something to consider in the long haul of parts replacement.

The way I look at it, I shift in two maybe three cogs in the back, single up front. And all the derailleurs break off just about the same when you get that big stick in there.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

hykerwilson said:


> although I have not gotten my bike yet, and I can't say anything about the quality to the Alivo derailleur, some of the problems that you guys are having may have something do to with the rear hanger being bent out of place.
> 
> I just bought a frame off ebay for my wife and it would not keep the last three in gear or get in gear properly. I have a friend who has a hanger tweaker bar. I bent it back, close to normal and it is night and day. So something to consider in the long haul of parts replacement.
> 
> The way I look at it, I shift in two maybe three cogs in the back, single up front. And all the derailleurs break off just about the same when you get that big stick in there.


More likely what they are experiencing is the cheezie springs that come in these low end derailleurs. 
Notice the move to clutch types, not only stronger spring rates buy also a uni directional clutch to prevent the chain slap that comes with the lower level offerings.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Works perfectly with the same hanger and new derailleur, not the hanger.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Jisch said:


> Look around - I got an XT for $60 not too long ago (it was for my RIP9). I got it through Jenson, but used a price match from somewhere else, I forget where.


Good call! $62 matched. Thanks for the tip!

Always learning...

And now my commuter will be moving up from Acera --> Alivio, and the gf's commuter goes from Altus --> Acera. The part swap shuffle, and the beat goes on.


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## eE jeremy (Oct 7, 2013)

So when you order you get a tracking number but it doesn't actually ship until later? Got a tracking number today that's dated for 2/18 on a comp.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Correct


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## eE jeremy (Oct 7, 2013)

Bummer, I was really excited until I saw the ship date


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

I received a call from BD today. Factory shorted their order on 19" Elites and Pros, but they had a few extra 17"s in both models. Since mine was a later order, they said they wouldn't have a 19" elite until April. They gave me $50 back and are shipping my 17" Elite today. They also offered a 17" Pro upgrade for $50. I feel taken care of.
After looking closer at the geometry sizing chart, it looks like the 17" will fit okay. But the fact that the charts for the comps and elite/pros are exactly the same when the frames clearly are not has me wondering.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

AdamJay said:


> I received a call from BD today. Factory shorted their order on 19" Elites and Pros, but they had a few extra 17"s in both models. Since mine was a later order, they said they wouldn't have a 19" elite until April. They gave me $50 back and are shipping my 17" Elite today. They also offered a 17" Pro upgrade for $50. I feel taken care of.
> After looking closer at the geometry sizing chart, it looks like the 17" will fit okay. But the fact that the charts for the comps and elite/pros are exactly the same when the frames clearly are not has me wondering.


The only difference I see between the frames is the color of paint.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/fatbike-pro-blu-21.jpg

https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/fatbike-elite-blk-21.jpg

https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/fatbike-comp-org-2100.jpg

^^ Load all 3 of these up in your browser in different tabs and then toggle between them. The frames photographed are clearly different.

Now, whether or not the frames are actually different from model to model, or if they have simply photographed a 15" Comp, a 17" Elite, and a 19" Pro, is unclear. If the former, they really should provide unique geo charts per model. Hoping it is the latter, though, as that would (hopefully) make the charts accurate, and explain the clearly shorter wheelbase of the photographed Comp.

Edit, okay, looking at the seat tubes between the photos, it stands to reason that these were all different sizes of the same frame.


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## pucelano (Oct 17, 2009)

The angles seem to be the same. I think they are shown in different sizes: 15", 17"and 19".


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

What do you guys think about these Samox cranks on the Pro/Elite? Not much data on them online. I have a Deore M590 on my Xtracycle, and from the pics the samox looks very similar, with the hollow alloy forged crank arms. What has the experience been like?


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## gravitylover (Sep 1, 2009)

I have the Samox on the bike I just got and so far it seems fine. Shifting up an down was smooth enough, engagement on the upshift was actually surprisingly crisp. I only have one ride and some fooling around with it so we'll see if it's up to snuff on my regular rocky rooty rides.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I get a chain pop every now and then when the chain seems to be popping onto a tooth, I have no idea if that's the rings or not. The chain on the bike is really cheap, so that may be the issue too - it doesn't happen often enough that I worry about it. I'll probably swap the chain in the spring and see what happens, and probably swap the rings at the same time. 

I am not sure how much weight you can save with a crankset swap, but it didn't seem "anchorish" when I pulled it to but the bash on.


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

In case anyone is wondering if you can race on these things, the answer is "YES!" I did the Fat Tire Loppet in Minneapolis on Sunday, and I was in the top 20 out of 100+ riders. I saw a lot of Beargrease and other high end bikes in the field...and most of them were behind me before long. I'm certainly not the fittest of riders, but I managed to roll in within 20 minutes of the leader. That certainly shows how capable these bikes are.


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## sbsbiker (Dec 1, 2007)

Jisch said:


> I get a chain pop every now and then when the chain seems to be popping onto a tooth, I have no idea if that's the rings or not. The chain on the bike is really cheap, so that may be the issue too - it doesn't happen often enough that I worry about it. I'll probably swap the chain in the spring and see what happens, and probably swap the rings at the same time.
> 
> I am not sure how much weight you can save with a crankset swap, but it didn't seem "anchorish" when I pulled it to but the bash on.


I've seen quotes of 300g saving going to a Raceface crank. Didn't weigh them myself, just read a post.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm sure you can save that much weight with a RF Next crank, but that's a lot of cash. I've decided that I'm going to build up a new bike with light parts from the get go. I think I'll be in a better position if I sell my FB4 as a full bike after I get the new bike built than if I upgrade along the way - I think it would be very hard to sell the heavy parts off the FB4 individually (and I'm not really interested in 10 transactions to sell it all).


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## aizu1 (Nov 28, 2005)

jkbike said:


> In case anyone is wondering if you can race on these things, the answer is "YES!" I did the Fat Tire Loppet in Minneapolis on Sunday, and I was in the top 20 out of 100+ riders. I saw a lot of Beargrease and other high end bikes in the field...and most of them were behind me before long. I'm certainly not the fittest of riders, but I managed to roll in within 20 minutes of the leader. That certainly shows how capable these bikes are.


Or how capable you are.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Why not 1 x the samox and save weight and $$$, I have a raceface narrow/wide and sram shorty type 2 impatiently waiting on the arrival of the Mrs. comp.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Jisch said:


> I get a chain pop every now and then when the chain seems to be popping onto a tooth, I have no idea if that's the rings or not. The chain on the bike is really cheap, so that may be the issue too - it doesn't happen often enough that I worry about it. I'll probably swap the chain in the spring and see what happens, and probably swap the rings at the same time.


In looking at the specs on the BD website, the chain is listed as 120 links. Am I mistaken, or isn't that a bit long for a 3x9?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I put a medium cage derailleur on and took off the big ring. I adjusted the chain length based on those changes (I forget how many links I took out) and I didn't count the links before, so I have no idea if its too many or not.


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## eE jeremy (Oct 7, 2013)

Got an email today saying the bike is in their warehouse and will ship out within 2 days (about 10 days early!), woohoo!

(comp - green - 15")


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## robm6107 (May 23, 2009)

Just got my Elite today. Well packed w/ no damage/holes in the box. Man, what a beauty. Only problem, we've some great snow-n-ice here in Boston. My Moto 29er is set up for winter fun (Schwalbe 402 Ice Spiker Pro's) & has been a blast both trail or bike paths/sidewalk-NO STREET, or try not to. Want to take the 29er apart for components for the Elite, but w/ what appears cont. winter weather on the horizon, what to do? Also, don't want to get the usual mess of side walk/street much, etc... on her.


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

robm6107 said:


> Only problem, we've some great snow-n-ice here in Boston. My Moto 29er is set up for winter fun (Schwalbe 402 Ice Spiker Pro's) & has been a blast both trail or bike paths/sidewalk-NO STREET, or try not to. Want to take the 29er apart for components for the Elite, but w/ what appears cont. winter weather on the horizon, what to do?


Obvious, but probably way too expensive option: Dillingers for your Elite
Cheaper option: try a test ride in a safe area on the Missions and see how they do on the snow-n-ice. I've read some people (such as a review of the Kona WO, which also comes with Missions) say that the Missions aren't great, but still not horrible on wintry surfaces. I saw a guy finish a snow bike race on a Minnesota 2.0 with the stock Missions last weekend. 
I personally have Husker Dus on my bike, and on winter roads with occasional ice patches they are almost, but not quite as good as my W105s. They are much better on winter roads with lots of snow, slush and icy bumps, though. I've commuted on my FB4 much more than my touring bike this winter because Minneapolis hasn't been able to keep up with the weather.


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## dbauer (Jul 15, 2009)

I received an email today stating that my Greeen FB4 Comp 17" is in the warehouse. To ship in 1-2 business days.


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## robm6107 (May 23, 2009)

The Dillingers are/will be on my upgrade list but not now, so doing any riding, other than tune up rides, changing parts, etc... is all for now. And also want to keep her lookin good to bust some-you get the picture.


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## robm6107 (May 23, 2009)

Anyone here have any idea, or have seen any postings around here regarding wheel settings for a Garmin GPS (Edge 705, etc...). Other than going thru the usual wheel measurements (roll), I'm looking at some of the pre-printed settings on the instructions/pdf & trying to come up w/ a figure, or something close. Settings for a 29er was really not set in stone, finding various numbers to input into the Garmin. I know that this subject really has nothing to do here regarding the Fat Bikes, but then there may be some here that are scratching their heads, or other things, looking for info.


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

FB4 Elite is due to arrive tomorrow afternoon! Excited to join in on the Fat Bike fun.


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

JonL, you get your FB4 Elite? how is the ride?


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

FatBikeNoob said:


> JonL, you get your FB4 Elite? how is the ride?


Weather issue apparently delayed UPS, so not till Monday.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Hey guys I have a Fantom comp and was adjusting the front caliper yesterday and noticed that I only have a few mm of space between the caliper and spokes. Not that I've had any rubbing issues yet but it just seems to be abnormally close. Is this normal or is something incorrect?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

If you look back through this thread you'll find some posts about this. I put washers in to push the caliper out a bit.


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## eE jeremy (Oct 7, 2013)

Anybody know how wide the rims are on the comps? 80mm?


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Thanks Jisch, took a while but found it on 34, 35.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

JonL said:


> Weather issue apparently delayed UPS, so not till Monday.


Mine as well, so bummed. Ah well, Tuesday is my day off and there's still plenty of snow on the ground and single digit temps through the week.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

dbauer said:


> I received an email today stating that my Greeen FB4 Comp 17" is in the warehouse. To ship in 1-2 business days.


Hopefully the Mrs. 15" is in, looking forward to an email BD:0)


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

robm6107 said:


> Anyone here have any idea, or have seen any postings around here regarding wheel settings for a Garmin GPS (Edge 705, etc...). Other than going thru the usual wheel measurements (roll), I'm looking at some of the pre-printed settings on the instructions/pdf & trying to come up w/ a figure, or something close. Settings for a 29er was really not set in stone, finding various numbers to input into the Garmin. I know that this subject really has nothing to do here regarding the Fat Bikes, but then there may be some here that are scratching their heads, or other things, looking for info.


I found this mtbr thread for setting up my moto elite to 2299 on a computer
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/larry-circumference-bike-computer-669516.html


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

FatBikeNoob said:


> JonL, you get your FB4 Elite? how is the ride?


Arrived this afternoon at 1:30 pm ... it is already built (1:45pm). The bike is actually better than I was anticipating. No chance to ride yet, but soon!! Welds look nice, wheels spin true....a few minor adjustments and anyone in the market should be happy with this bike.
I plan on swapping out some components... going 2x10 and have my own stem/bar and seat post I want to put on yet, but overall, extremely satisfied!


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

My Elite arrived today. After a quick tune and test ride, I was ready to do some tinkerin'.
Sram grips, the new Charge Scoop saddle, and a bit of anodized red on the seatpost clamp, headset spacers and top cap, and QR skewers. The rim tape is retroreflective.

There's an XT RD and new cassette on their way from Jenson, and then I'm done tweaking. Looking forward to the 17 mile round trip to pick up our milk from our herd share tomorrow.


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## hykerwilson (Jan 19, 2014)

anyone try a 100mm rim in either the comp or elite frame sets? I was wondering how far off a 4.8" tire is in the back??


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## Kibo (Jul 13, 2007)

I ordered a pair of Pro's for my wife and myself, and they showed up last week. My wife's bike is stock, but I threw a few parts on my bike that I had around: XT cassette, (broken) SLR saddle, and Thomson Masterpiece seatpost. Combined, these three things saved a pound off the stock pieces according to my digital postal scale (+/- 0.1oz).

So far I've only had two night rides, but overall I'm very happy with the bikes. I see why people say the Missions aren't ideal for uphill traction in soft snow. I don't have any previous experience with fat bikes, but the self steering is quite an odd feel. I arbitrarily set the tire pressures at 8psi at room temp and haven't fiddled with them yet, but I only noticed the self steering when cruising relatively fast (packed ice/snow on concrete).

By the way, I highly recommend the Feedback Sports Fatt Rakk as a parking solution. Unless you have a snow stand:









(White stuff at the head tube is packing foam left in place to keep the cables from scuffing the paint until I can get some protective frame patches on there.)


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

I think they should just sell it with the red bits since I am doing the same thing. What is the rim strip you used and how did you do the front? 2 strip or 1 wide one?


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

I used JVCC REF-7 Engineering Grade Reflective Tape: 2 in. x 30 ft.
For the front, I did two rows. They do make a 4" but it ain't cheap. The 2"x30' roll did just fine. JVCC REF-7 Engineering Grade Reflective Tape: 2 in. x 30 ft. (Red) - Amazon.com


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

AdamJay said:


> I used JVCC REF-7 Engineering Grade Reflective Tape: 2 in. x 30 ft.
> For the front, I did two rows. They do make a 4" but it ain't cheap. The 2"x30' roll did just fine. JVCC REF-7 Engineering Grade Reflective Tape: 2 in. x 30 ft. (Red) - Amazon.com


You are going to have to school me a bit on the reflective tape as a rim strip since I cannot find the answer on my own. What side is the adhesive facing? Only thing I can think is your are doubling it up, but want to hear it before I try it.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

JonL,

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/your-latest-fatbike-related-purchase-pics-required-750452-31.html

Check out post #'s 765 & 769

Also, this thread is useful: http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/different-coloured-rim-strips-where-can-i-get-them-796691.html


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

The bike I didn't need is 99% done, and I am pretty psyched. 
Truvativ all around, shorter stem, zero setback seat post, T30 alloy bars / 2×10 drive train, using x9 rear/shifter and 11/36 1050 cassette, bash guard, KMC chain / Hayes Trail brakes with Formula rotors / Time Strong pedals. Need to shorten chain and cables yet still, but it is rid-able.


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Just posted on the BikesDirect Facebook page. Holy CRAP!!!!

More news from Fatbike-dom!

We're expecting to get a new Motobecane Boris FS with a 120mm front travel fork!
In addition to the 2015 Boris versions with X5, X7, and X9, we hear that a new front-suspension Boris FS X9 with a new suspension fork is in the works!
We expect a late-summer delivery, and we think this bike will be an exciting addition to the Boris line-up!

Motobecane models for 2015 [delivery late summer 2014] will include:
FB4 with 135mm rear axle [5 models]
Boris with 170mm rear axle [4 models]
Ivan with 190mm rear axle [3 models]

Still in the works:
A 4130 Chrm-moly model which will offer many improvements over current steel fat bikes on the market, in addition to having a way more attractive pricing.

A FLY model which will be exactly what the name implies; if Motobecane can get it down to 23 or 24 lbs and keep the price affordable, it will be a-go for late summer 2014. Making light bikes is easy. Making them affordable is the trick!

We would love to hear your comments on what you would like to see in fat bikes!

Happy Riding!

The Friendly Folks at Bikes Direct!


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Poop.


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## eE jeremy (Oct 7, 2013)

Received my fiance's FB4 comp (15" green) yesterday! Overall I'm very impressed, for the money you really can't go wrong. 

Did a few upgrades starting with the rear derailer (SLX), cassette (XT), tubes (q-tubes ultralight), and tires (Vee rubber snowshoes), dropped over 2.5lbs from the bike and it's sitting under 35lbs now with a set of heavy test ride pedals, all that weight was rotating weight too. She took it out for a quick test in the subdivision last night and we are planning to take it out for a real ride tomorrow but so far we're super happy with it, and are all in for less than $1100. 

My only complaint so far is actually with the new tires (Vee rubber snowshoes), they claim to be 4.7in, but are the same size as the Vee rubber missions which are a claimed 4in, there is a ton of clearance around the chain stay's, forks, and chain for a little wider tire so I was hoping to take advantage of that, oh well, the new tires are significantly lighter and have a much more aggressive tread pattern that will work better in the snow for sure. I'm curious if a bud/lou tire combo would fit, it looks like it might.


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## hykerwilson (Jan 19, 2014)

I'll let you know if the bud lou combo fit when the bike comes in next week. I am however, putting a lefty front end on it, so the bud definitely fits. the task is the lou. I'll post as soon as I know.


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## cm11599ps (Nov 27, 2013)

I brought my new Elite to a local mechanic last night to build and inspect and we came across a few issues.

1) The shifting through all the gears is smooth but the rear high gear noise is just awful. The cassette appears fine and every other gear seems fine. Nothing he adjusted would stop the noise.

2) Big ring had a bent tooth.

3) We had the same problem with the front brakes. He even put 2 washers in there and it still didn't resolve the problem. :-(

I just sent an email to BD to see what they can do for me.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

cm11599ps said:


> 1) The shifting through all the gears is smooth but the rear high gear noise is just awful. The cassette appears fine and every other gear seems fine. Nothing he adjusted would stop the noise.
> 
> 2) Big ring had a bent tooth.


1 is usually a too long chain and not enough b-tension. 2 - big ring on a fat bike? Why? Put BBG bash on it, shorten the chain, maybe it will help with 1 as well.


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

First ride tonight. After a derailleur adjustment, all was good. I have to say the bike rolled a hell of a lot quicker than I thought it would. With the setback seat post and the shorter stem, the bike fit perfectly. On hardpack the bike was fine. Anything fresh and forget it, not anything to due with the bike, all in the tires. Front is probably workable, but no traction in the back for foward momentum.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Was suprised to drive up to the house and see a HUGE moto box in front of the house last nite, no email, no signatue upon delivey. I do live well off the road so I guess delivery guy thought it would be ok. 
I spent the better part of last nite transforming the 15" comp to fit the Mrs.
New zero setback post and serfas rx saddle
60mm raceface stem and 650 maid handlebars
Removed the triple setup off the samox crank and installed a 32T raceface narrow wide chain ring
Removed the alivo stuff and replaced with sam X.9. 10 speed shifter, shorty type 2 and cassette.
The bike looks vey solid, the welds are clean.
The only thing I would like to see BD change is that silly wide front hoop, it really flattens out the round profile of the mission tires.
If the Mrs. enjoys it that will probably be about the only othe update we will make to the bike.
I will try to upload some pics later.
Just waiting on a 17" Boris to get this party started.


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## mplscyclist (Feb 13, 2014)

Hey, I am new here and just got a new FB4 Comp the other day. I have been upgrading a number of parts that I already had or picked up for cheap at a bike swap last weekend. 
I think the quality of the frame/fork is excellent. The welds are as good as expected and I would not hesitate to recommend the bike. 
The assembly took longer the usual because of the swapping of parts. I enjoy this part of the process, I like to get to know the machine before I go riding it. I have been doing my own repair and assembly for years, as a result I very rarely have breakdowns out on the road or trails. For me, wrenching is an integral part of being a cyclist.So BD fits me just fine. This will not be the case for everyone no doubt.
There were a few little issues with fasteners like others have pointed out, some bolts are really tight. After the changes i have the bike down to about 33.5 Lbs. I am considering a few other changes, but for now I will ride it as is.
The comments about lack of quality or people speculating on a product they don't even own let alone have seen in person should be taken with a grain of salt. Even the saddle looks much better quality then the photos would suggest. 
I live in Minneapolis and strongly considered a Minnesota 2.0. I visited the shop a couple times and decided against buying one because they have unsual geometry. They don't make my size as far as I am concerned. When I test rode the bike, the frame feels flexy.......They extra set of wheels the The House offers is a nice add on, but I feel I got a better quality frame with the Moto.
Anyway, I'm just voicing my vote for Bikes Direct and the Moto FB4.


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## cm11599ps (Nov 27, 2013)

I have the black Elite with the green accents. Has anyone swapped out items on their bike to match the green that's currently on the bike? If so, what did you use?


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

My front disc rotor was a bit out of round, so the good folks at Bicycle Garage Indy gave it a truing and threw a spacer in there too, and took out a couple chain links. Will be playing with the tire pressure this weekend in the park, as I've only put about 30 miles on it this first week. Going to see what I like, and don't like about the Missions, and play around with their mounting directions, and then make a decision on a new set of tires. Looks like Floaters are back in stock, but I'm in no hurry and the selection is only going to improve!


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

mplscyclist said:


> I live in Minneapolis and strongly considered a Minnesota 2.0. I visited the shop a couple times and decided against buying one because they have unsual geometry. They don't make my size as far as I am concerned. When I test rode the bike, the frame feels flexy.......They extra set of wheels the The House offers is a nice add on, but I feel I got a better quality frame with the Moto..


I also considered the Minnesota 2.0. It was ultimately the quando hubs on both wheelsets that pushed my search elsewhere. One bad experience was all I needed to write them off.


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## steveohio (Dec 6, 2013)

mplscyclist said:


> The comments about lack of quality or people speculating on a product they don't even own let alone have seen in person should be taken with a grain of salt. Even the saddle looks much better quality then the photos would suggest.
> I live in Minneapolis and strongly considered a Minnesota 2.0. I visited the shop a couple times and decided against buying one because they have unsual geometry. They don't make my size as far as I am concerned. When I test rode the bike, the frame feels flexy.......They extra set of wheels the The House offers is a nice add on, but I feel I got a better quality frame with the Moto.
> Anyway, I'm just voicing my vote for Bikes Direct and the Moto FB4.


Which FB4 did you end up going with? I, along with probably tons of other people have been lurking this forum trying to decide which of the sub-1k Fat bikes are the best/best value.


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

steveohio said:


> Which FB4 did you end up going with? I, along with probably tons of other people have been lurking this forum trying to decide which of the sub-1k Fat bikes are the best/best value.


For my intended use, I am super happy with the quality of the Elite! Granted I swapped out nearly all the components (because I had them), but before doing so, the stock set up was fine. I did not have any of the over/under torqued issues that some have mentioned. Welds on the frame look nice, wheels are true, what more could you ask for for under $900 delivered???
I did have a Minnesota 2.0 on order prior to switching to the FB4. Compare the frames top tube lengths and other measurements. I went with the frame that was closest to what I am currently riding. Then take a look at components if you are leaving them stock. I liked the external bearing BB, wider front rim, and non Quando hubs, hydraulic brakes that the FB4 offered.


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## mplscyclist (Feb 13, 2014)

*The FB4 Comp*



steveohio said:


> Which FB4 did you end up going with?


I got the comp. I don't mind swapping out parts and I liked the color. The frame and fork are the same on all FB4's from what I understand.
Another deciding factor for me was the offset rear end. If I should want or need to swap out the rear hub, we have limitless options of 135mm hubs. I have considered going internal gearing at some point. So in versatility the nod goes to the Moto.

A 170mm rear has it's appeal, but for me, I am happy with my choice.


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## shnichol (Apr 27, 2007)

Has anyone received an orange Comp yet? It would be great to see some pictures.


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

A brief mention of the Moto fatbike on Bike Snob NYC. that pretty much sums it up for me.

_("Tempted to buy a BikesDirect fat bike because as soon as I do it will never snow again".)_

I am giving up trips to the brewpub for a few months and selling off bikes to make room in the stable, living in Montana I can find a use for fat tires 360 days a year.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

So after a couple hours of frustration chasing a ghost shifting issue on the Mrs. new comp. (which now has a Sram X9 1 x 10 drive train) I bit the bullet and went to a LBS and ponied up $25 for a new Wheels Manufacturing #25 Derailleur hanger. 
Shifting like a Sram equipped bike now:0)


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## mplscyclist (Feb 13, 2014)

*Here are some photos from today*

We got 3" of fresh snow here today in Minneapolis, I went riding around Minnehaha Falls Park, it was a great day on the wheel.


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## shnichol (Apr 27, 2007)

Great to finally see some photos of the orange comp. Did yours come with black rim strips, seat binder and spacers, or did you switch out the green bits?


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## Jiff24 (Jan 4, 2012)

Anthem1 said:


> So after a couple hours of frustration chasing a ghost shifting issue on the Mrs. new comp. (which now has a Sram X9 1 x 10 drive train) I bit the bullet and went to a LBS and ponied up $25 for a new Wheels Manufacturing #25 Derailleur hanger.
> Shifting like a Sram equipped bike now:0)


Would you be willing to post a picture of the new drive train? Thanks.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

test


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## mplscyclist (Feb 13, 2014)

*Yes black*



shnichol said:


> Great to finally see some photos of the orange comp. Did yours come with black rim strips, seat binder and spacers?


Yes b lack stuff looks better, and that's what they put on it. The seat post clamp is the good kind with the steel dowel, no bent binder bolt.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

I picked up a Pro about a week ago. Been out 4 times on it. The front brake was my only problem. Loosening front caliper bolts and putting on front brake didn't do it. The caliper just kept rubbing on the rotor. What fixed it was figuring out which way the caliper needed to go to clear the rotor. Then loosened the bolts and pushed the caliper to use up all the play in the holes....as far to the end of the holes as it would go, cranked down the bolts. Perfect. I got lucky. The good news? I love this bike. The Deore derailleurs work awesome. I set the tires to 8 psi for snow. I don't use it for anything else. Perfect. I actually enjoy winter now. I rode 10 miles yesterday and 8 today. Love the bike. Everybody who sees it out in the woods says cool bike. The only mods I did was change the grips and add platform pedals. The bike is great. I highly recommend it.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Heres some pics of the 1 x 10 conversion
Download


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## cactus1 (Jun 18, 2013)

Ordered my Fatty BD FB4 Large from 6' to 6'4" yesterday 2-16-2014. BD says it should be in between May 1 - 15th. Have eight bikes now and this will be my third BD, they are made in Taiwan where most bikes are manufactured. 

My first BD bike was a Cross Bike in polished alloy frame and the LBS didn't know anything about BD and thought it was a great bike and well designed. 

My second BD bike was a MTB with polished alloy frame, hy brakes with front and rear suspension. Paid around 1300 and LBS thought it was worth 5K and wanted to know where I bought it in the box. The box was well labeled Motobecane. Paid 50 bucks for the LBS to assemble.

BD says the Fatty FB4 with 4" wide tires can go in 4" of snow and will rollover almost anything.

Comes in sort of a Charcoal color with green neon seat post holder, and head. Have two neon green water bottle holders on the way. Should be an eye catcher on the bike trail.


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## geekqualizer (Feb 15, 2014)

Received my Lime Green BD4 about a week ago. Bike arrived unblemished in a slightly tattered box after traveling half way round the world by container ship and an eighteen wheel tractor trailer.

I slowly and carefully assembled the machine in about an hour with my intermediate bike mechanic skills. The disk brakes run true and front and rear derailleurs are spot on.

I do know a bit about TIG welding and can report that the frame welds were of very good quality and probably would have passed inspection if they were in the wing box of a Boeing 737. 

I replaced the black seat with a lime green one from an internet warehouse and the machine looks most excellent.

The bike feels a lot lighter than it looks and out here in the snows of New England is a joy to ride on a compacted surface. One caveat, you ain't gonna be 'floating' through a foot of snow with this puppy. 

A nice bike, I think, at a reasonable price. 

What could possibly go wrong?


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## dbauer (Jul 15, 2009)

Received my FB4 Comp last Thursday. I assembled it on Saturday morning so I could get a weight on it in stock form. It is a 17" and it weighed 36.06 pounds.

I then started to tear it apart to start the upgrades. I ran into some over torqued bolts. I managed to get all of them out with the exception of one of the crank arm cinch bolts. I stripped the head out on that one. Will be taking it into the LBS this week to see if they can remove it.

Looking forward to finishing the upgrades so I can get out and ride it.


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

geekqualizer, pics of your green FB4 plz. That is the model & color I want to buy unless the new upcoming BD fat bikes are just way better.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

dbauer said:


> Received my FB4 Comp last Thursday. I assembled it on Saturday morning so I could get a weight on it in stock form. It is a 17" and it weighed 36.06 pounds.
> 
> I then started to tear it apart to start the upgrades. I ran into some over torqued bolts. I managed to get all of them out with the exception of one of the crank arm cinch bolts. I stripped the head out on that one. Will be taking it into the LBS this week to see if they can remove it.
> 
> Looking forward to finishing the upgrades so I can get out and ride it.


I encountered the same over torqued crank arm pinch bolts. it doesn't help that the heads on these bolts are a size smaller than your typical shimano bolt. I was able to get them out by gradually and evenly backing them off, I originally backed off the first and did not like the feel I got on the second


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## hykerwilson (Jan 19, 2014)

*orange comp*

Got my Orange comp today. came with a 100mm front rim, unexpected. I was thinking 82 like the rear. Removed chainrings and put a 28t small alloy on instead, removed front derailleur and shifter. added carbon bar, removed hydro brakes and put mechanical instead. (we ride in the -deg so it seems to make sense to me. the lou and bud seem to fit fine. so 4.8 on an 82 and the 100. dropper post, lights and fenders stock tubes but they seemed as light as my qtubes. weighs in at 37.6.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Fat


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Orange Comps are looking very nice with the black trim! Such a steal at $695. The orange/green combo on the BD site is puke-tastic. I'm waiting to see what these Gravity fatbikes look like this spring so I can get the lady on a fat bike too, but if they don't spec too well, it seems the Comp will do.

So, I took my Elite into the LBS today, and they were a bit stunned. They're a Surly and Salsa dealer. "You don't get hydraulics on Surly until you step up to the Pugs Special Ops."
(Salesman to mechanic) "Hey look at this.. Double wall rims?!"
I'm kinda glad they didn't ask me how much it cost.


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## geekqualizer (Feb 15, 2014)

FatBikeNoob said:


> geekqualizer, pics of your green FB4 plz. That is the model & color I want to buy unless the new upcoming BD fat bikes are just way better.


geekqualizer, pics of your green FB4 plz.

Pics are on my Ipad and I could not figure how to upload here. Go to Road Bike Outlet and look for colored fixed bike saddles. Hope this helps.


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## sbsbiker (Dec 1, 2007)

Anthem1 said:


> I encountered the same over torqued crank arm pinch bolts. it doesn't help that the heads on these bolts are a size smaller than your typical shimano bolt. I was able to get them out by gradually and evenly backing them off, I originally backed off the first and did not like the feel I got on the second


FYI, if you have to bolts that are used to pinch, by loosening one but not the other, you put all the stress onto the tightened bolt. Loosen one a 1/4 turn, then the other 1/4 turn, then back to the first for a 1/2 turn, ect until the stress is gradually released from both bolts, slowly, and evenly. Same for tightening, putting top torque one one bolt before torquing the other will result in a false reading.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

sbsbiker said:


> FYI, if you have to bolts that are used to pinch, by loosening one but not the other, you put all the stress onto the tightened bolt. Loosen one a 1/4 turn, then the other 1/4 turn, then back to the first for a 1/2 turn, ect until the stress is gradually released from both bolts, slowly, and evenly. Same for tightening, putting top torque one one bolt before torquing the other will result in a false reading.


 +1.


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## roundtheworld (Feb 11, 2014)

Man these bikes are a great deal. I may put my extra set of clipless pedals on but otherwise all original parts including tires will remain until worn out. Even after importing it, paying $50 for for set up, foreign exchange currency and foreign exchange visa fee I am still under $800 for a bike that rides like something I would have expected to pay $1,500 to $2,000. This bike is playing with house money!


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

A quick update on the BorisX9 from the BikesDirect Facebook page

Good News, everyone!

The factories have sent us an alert, detailing that the Boris X9 will be sailing on Thursday Feb 20th (along with the much awaited kilo TT frame sets)!

If the transit time is normal, their arrival in Dallas should be March 20th to 22nd

We are excited to get these 2014 models delivered to customers,
and we are looking forward to four 2015 Boris models coming in August (including a version with 120mm travel suspension fork).


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks for the update! Guess it might actually happen!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Hoping for a tail wind for that freighter.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Buddy of mine is getting rid of a groovy luv steel bar, considering putting it on my moto. Being the clamp size only comes in 25.4 I'd have to swap out stem as well. Anyone switch from 31.8 to 25.4 bar/stem on there fatty?


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

you can use a 25.4 to 31.8 stem spacer w/ no issues


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

I know spacers are available but was a little skeptical. Didnt know if its to big of a jump. Any spacer better than the other or all the same?


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## Oldens Lowe (Feb 17, 2014)

Hi there. This is my first post to mtbr. I just got my green FB4 Comp last week and I'm so excited about it that I thought I'd join up and post. I've owned lots (and lots) of bikes from cheap to expensive. This is my first experience with BD and I'm please all around. It is a great functional bike. As with most box bikes the weakest link is the tires / wheels (and usually the most expensive upgrade) I just converted the stock wheels / tires to tubeless. I'll run em like that over the summer then think about upgrades for next winter. Here are some stock component weights for those of you thinking about swapping out for weight savings. I'm just throwing things on the scale as I work on the bike and swap - forgot to weigh tires  I saved about 200g per wheel by going gorilla tape / weather strip / stan's sealant tubeless BTW

rear wheel w tire cassette, no skewer - 4530g
stock tube - 440g
stock saddle - 295g
stock bar 740mm wide - 300g
large chainring - 220g


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## Oldens Lowe (Feb 17, 2014)

also - FB4 comp stock cassette weight is 415g


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Row row row your boat....


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## Oldens Lowe (Feb 17, 2014)

While I'm posting, if you're thinking about converting stock wheel and tires to tubeless o the FB4 Comp, here's how i did it. First off, this is my 4th set of wheels that I've converted. Each one was done differently based on the situation at hand. I've done Stan's tape, split tube ghetto, and Mavic UST w Racing Ralphs. I'm sure there are as many ways to do tubeless as people trying it. I was planning on doing split tube for the FB4 but it didn't work for me. Here's the deal.

You probably know that the reason we can mount tires on any rim at all is that there is some degree of valley in the middle of the rim which effectively makes the rim diameter small when mounting and allows the tire to barely fit on over the edge of the rim. You probably also know that to go tubeless, we build up the inner part of the rim close to the bead (making the diameter larger) so the tire and rim are much more snug and hold back enough air loss to allow inflation and seating of the bead.

OK but the FB4 comp front rim that I got (100mm wide) has very little center valley- it's almost flat. So as I built up the rim with tape, tried foam, and tried the spit tube - I couldn't mount the tire. I got the tire mounted on the split tube but couldn't get it over the few mm increase in thickness where the valve inserts. I spent hours at this. 

Finally, I removed the green rim strip, did a wrap of Gorilla tape (sticky side up) to seal the big holes in the rim, followed by a wrap of tape on each side of the rim to cover the sticky tape and the small drainage holes in the rim. I installed a presta valve stem with removable core, mounted the tire, and THEN laid down a strip of foam along side both sides of the mounted tire near the edge of the rim. The foam I used was insulating pipe wrap 1/8" thick, 2" wide (I cut in half to 1" strips) with a sticky back.

With this method and soapy water the tires aired-up presto! Once seated I added about 5 oz of Stan's per wheel. Both wheels had big leaks at the seam in the rim opposite the valve stem.

The rear rim is 82mm and has more of a valley so another method may have worked, but did the same thing there and took a short time to do. BTW I inspected and smoothed the tire bead with sandpaper as there are nubs there. I hope this all makes sense as I've described it. Was gonna take pics but I'm too lazy. It worked for me. YMMV


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

I noticed on my Pro that the Deore rear derailleur has no cable tension adjustment fitting. There's one on the shifter side but it just rotates and doesn't do anything. I need to change this so I can adjust it. Does anybody else have this problem?


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeMountain said:


> I noticed on my Pro that the Deore rear derailleur has no cable tension adjustment fitting. There's one on the shifter side but it just rotates and doesn't do anything. I need to change this so I can adjust it. Does anybody else have this problem?


The adjuster on the shifter might have a spring action twist, pull back on the adjuster and turn it. Be sure to have the shifter in first gear and tighten the deraileur cable before adjusting anything up top from the shifters.


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

No newer derailleur I have owned (shimano or sram) have adjusters at the rear. They are all at the shifter. I usually turn the adjuster all the way in, back it off 3 revolutions, pull the cable tight at the derailleur, and it is good to go. The fine tune adjustments are done at the shifter. Hope this makes sense, haven't had my coffee yet.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Thanks for the replies. I just looked at my instructions. They actually sent two versions of instructions so that confused me. One shows the adjustment at the rear. The other shows it at the shifter. My adjustment is at the shifter but doesn't do anything. As one of you guys pointed out it may be spring action twist but the manual doesn't say that. It just says turn it in or out.

See attached instructions. I also found an exploded view of the adjustment nut. It does appear to have some spring loaded mechanism. I'll have to try adjusting it when I go out riding today.

I included a pic from my ride yesterday. We've had lots of snow fall this winter so the trails are ideal for fat biking. But we had a sudden warm up with tons of rain which made the trails very icy in spots. Kind of trashed the trails.


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

JoeMountain said:


> Thanks for the replies. I just looked at my instructions. They actually sent two versions of instructions so that confused me. One shows the adjustment at the rear. The other shows it at the shifter. My adjustment is at the shifter but doesn't do anything. As one of you guys pointed out it may be spring action twist but the manual doesn't say that. It just says turn it in or out.
> 
> See attached instructions. I also found an exploded view of the adjustment nut. It does appear to have some spring loaded mechanism. I'll have to try adjusting it when I go out riding today.
> 
> I included a pic from my ride yesterday. We've had lots of snow fall this winter so the trails are ideal for fat biking. But we had a sudden warm up with tons of rain which made the trails very icy in spots. Kind of trashed the trails.


turning the knob tightens or slackens the cable just enough for proper derailleur alignment. Put the bike in 1st gear. Turn the dial all the way down, back it 3 full turns, tighten the cable at the derailleur. You should be good from there provided your set screws are correct. If not, turn the dial out to tighten and in to slacken.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Thank you JonL and Pushcobra. I just got back from a ride and figured out how to adjust it. It is indeed spring loaded. It has to be pulled out to adjust. I fine tuned it for smooth shifts and works great now.


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## pucelano (Oct 17, 2009)

Am I the only one having a hard time getting the front tire off the 100mm rim?
Yesterday I got my new set of Floaters and starting swapping the original Missions (wire bead). The back came out by hand, not tool required. The front was a completely different story. I tried for almost one hour, I could stick one tire lever and bring the bead out, but inserting the second one was impossible, no matter how much I compressed the tire to give it some wiggle room, or how much soap I applied. At the end I had three broken tire levers and very sore hands, but the tire was still in the rim. I will have to take the wheel to the shop tomorrow, and hope that the kevlar bead in the Floaters is much easier to remove.


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## hykerwilson (Jan 19, 2014)

you should not have that much trouble.

I deflated the tube almost to empty. pushed the valve stem in to the tire (after closing it down, as not to get it broken). then you should be able to slide the whole tire to one side of the rim. once that is done you can then tire lever a lever or two in to the bead. once two are in you should be able to swing the other lever around and get the bead off. once once side is off. pull out the tube, and slide the tire all the way to the edge and do the same thing. this is a bit harder since the tire is in the way to get the lever under the wire. good luck.


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## mplscyclist (Feb 13, 2014)

*First Long Ride Thoughts and Reflections and ramblings*

We got a big dump of rain, slush and then snow late last week and I headed out today on my new FB4 Comp to run it through it's paces on the off road trails. Most of the riding I have done up lit today has been on snow packed bike trails and heavily walked foot paths. 
This bike is everything I was expecting, what a blast. The conditions today were very challenging, lots of bogging down and spinning rear wheel, tested my balance at every turn. I encountered water puddles, sheer ice refrozen chunks of snow all the way to deep soft snow. I was very slow, a nasty NW wind was no help, but part of the fun is overcoming the elements. If this was not the case, we would stay in and watch basketball on the TV.
The drive train has required a little tweeking. I removed the big CR and am running a 2x9 setup with a 36t & 22t on the front. I am seriously thinking the front brake is not really needed for winter riding, I seldom touch it. 
I am 6" tall with long legs and the MED size frame is a great fit for me. I did upgrade the seatpost and the new one is 400mm long. I never used the the stock post nor saddle, so I do not know if the seatpost would have been long enough for me. 
I am still trying to decide if I like the width of the handlebar. They seem excessively wide but they are starting to grow on me. I keep scooting the grips and controls in bit by bit to try different setups before getting out the hacksaw.
Living here in Minneapolis, I thought the fat bike thing looked like a lot of fun, but I would never spend $1500 on a Surly or Salsa. I am sure they are fine products, but I wasn't sure it would be worth it to me. So I bit on the 695.00 FB4 and after a few low cost upgrades, I could hardly be more happy. The fact that we have had a really snowy and cold winter plays a part in me diving into this too.
I picked up some used Microshift Thumbshifters and am really liking them. Very light, simple and sort of retro, they are a nice upgrade. The stock shifters work fine, though I did not care for the lack of "trimming" control of the front derailleur. Plus the big mittens I use are not the best match with the trigger shifters. As a side note, I tried the Minnesota 2.0 with the X5 trigger shifter, I liked that one the least. perhaps I would have gotten used to it, but the big mitts made it fiddly. I like sticking with Shimano, much easier to mix and match/replace parts.
The openings in the double wall rims create an interesting issue. Once the snow has all melted once back in the house, there is a little puddle in the rim. This will not drain, I am concerned this may lead to issues later, like frozen spoke nipples. Even though the stainless spoke and brass nipples should not rust, they still can corrode. Time will tell I guess. I am considering covering the big holes with clear packing tape, but the water can always get in around the nipple holes too. I had some Campy deep aero wheels once that had weep hole drilled in them for this reason. i have also thought of filling the rim hollows with Great Stuff sealing foam, very light and closed cell.............

Anyway, hope my reflection helpful.

BTW, there is a new video on You Tube of the Comp completely disassembled and parts weighed.


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## hykerwilson (Jan 19, 2014)

I had basically the same experience today. we just had 20" of snow. then it rained, the weather had turned warm (mid 40's) the trails have not been beaten at all by the snow shoes or the cc skiers. So the they were virtually impossible to ride. I broke down and rode along the snow mobile trails. one or two locations there were what looked like nice ice patches. I have a set of studded Dillengers so I look for ice when ever I can to enjoy the uprightedness of these tires. well, the ice was not really ice but more 12" of slush. drove right through to the bottom, the wheels instantly (it seemed) filled with water and slush. now all I hear is swoosh swoosh as I ride. kind of frustrating. it must have added a pound or two to the bike. I think I will take my friends advice and sell off these double wallers and build up a set of Marge lites. (so I have some fronts and rears for sale here shortly)


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## pucelano (Oct 17, 2009)

hykerwilson said:


> you should not have that much trouble ... good luck.


I tried that too, but not luck :madman:. I must have the tightest wire bead ever designed by man.
Hopefully the guys at the shop will be able to get the tire off the rim.


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## Oldens Lowe (Feb 17, 2014)

See my post above about going tubeless. The 100mm wide fronts are almost flat across with very little center valley. But there are little valleys about 1 inch in from each side of the rim. Try to get the tire bead into that little valley before using the levers. That's your best shot for changing tires.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I had problems getting the front tire off as well. I can't say exactly why or what I did to finally be successful, but it was a lot of effort and time. For reference I've changed probably a hundred tires, if not more, in my time on bikes, definitely the most difficult one I've ever done.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

I had trouble initially removing the front tire with standard tire irons. I ended up using a Crank Brothers speed iron (think that is the name, it is a telescoping thing that connects to the axle) works great.


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## pucelano (Oct 17, 2009)

Well, the Floater is now installed in the front. It took the bike mechanic around 15 minutes to take the Mission out and installed the new tire. He had never seen such a tight fit in a tire. The secret weapon? A pair of big tire irons:


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

Anyone have a green BD FB4 Comp? Nice platform pedals here: Fyxation Gates Platform Pedals at BikeTiresDirect


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

Those are plastic BMX pedals for bike/skate parks, (they don't mess up the concrete). I would recommend something with steel pins for snowy wet boots on the trails. 

There is about twenty inches of snow on the street outside and my FB4 comp is 70 days out. ):


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## 2002maniac (Nov 17, 2008)

Posted on BD's facebook page.

"Factory has just sent us full specs and the Gravity Bullseye Monster is better than we thought and lower in price! Aluminum Fat Bike with 100mm BB, 170mm rear hub, double crank, disc brakes, and V-Rubber Mission 72tpi tires - all for $499 delivered in the 48 states. Plus no sales tax collected by us except in Texas & Florida.



We will start pre-book sales on Gravity Fat Bikes in about a week!

Deadeye $399

Deadeye Monster $449

Bullseye $449

Bullseye Monster $499



Sign up for bikesdirect newsletter if you want to be first to get one of these super Fat Bike deals on-order.



Also: Gravity is looking at doing a Bullseye Monster Pro with lots of high end goodies: please post comments of what you would like to see."

What do you guys think?


----------



## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

2002maniac said:


> Posted on BD's facebook page.
> 
> "Factory has just sent us full specs and the Gravity Bullseye Monster is better than we thought and lower in price! Aluminum Fat Bike with 100mm BB, 170mm rear hub, double crank, disc brakes, and V-Rubber Mission 72tpi tires - all for $499 delivered in the 48 states. Plus no sales tax collected by us except in Texas & Florida.
> 
> ...


Looks great, I suggest a girly color, pink/babyblue?, for the wife, I know she is going to want one once my FB4 get's here.
With front and rear disks and Alu frame it should really discourage anyone from considering upgrading all the cheese on a Wallgoose Beast.


----------



## steveohio (Dec 6, 2013)

Yep, I was gonna get one of the upcoming Walgoose fats, as they look much improved compared to the Beast, but with the BD offerings listed here, I see no reason to go that route, when the tire upgrade alone is worth the price difference. Plus all the better parts, etc.

What are the big differences between the Deadeye and the Bullseye, it looks like one has a tapered head tube, but the basic geometry looks to be the same?


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

one is a singlespeed


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

jhmeathead said:


> For people that dont want to go to their FB
> 
> View attachment 847849
> 
> ...


these came from page 38 in this thread


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

thats what I was curious about... gears? other components? have a friend who is very interested knowing that my bike is almost here in upgrading from his 1988-1995 mountain bike...

I saw the old posts but unsure where they really will be..


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Mr. Doom said:


> Looks great, I suggest a girly color, pink/babyblue?, for the wife, I know she is going to want one once my FB4 get's here.


She will! My lady is already jealous of my Elite. I've told her she'll have a Gravity Bullseye all her own once they land.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

New fatties have been added, shipping April.
Frames appear to be identical to FB4.

Specifications also seem identical with the exception of saddles. Prices not identical, with a $104 premium on these over the FB4 Comp and Pro. "List" prices incredibly different too.

SE "[email protected]" $799

Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - SE [email protected] Fat Bikes








SE "[email protected]" $1099
Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - SE [email protected] Fat Bikes








Seems like BD now has one for every price point from $695 to $1099, with the Gravity bikes taking up the low end down to $499 in a week or so.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

I saw them on the fatbike page but price was lower yesterday..


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## dbauer (Jul 15, 2009)

Last Friday evening I was able to reassemble my FB4 Comp with my upgrades. The bike had been completely stripped. Glad I did this as many areas needed grease. I decided to reverse the Vee tires and see if this would help in the snow. 

We had a warm up and some rain for two days which quickly froze back up during the day on Friday. On Sunday I decided to go out and do a test ride. I ventured to the local park which is about a mile from the house. I felt some self steer on the pavement, however not to bad. The park is closed for the winter, but there was a great deal of snowmobile tracks throughout the park. I found the tracks to be very solid and rode for 45 minutes around the park. The bike handled well in these conditions and I was surprised how well the tires performed. 

The bike is heavy and I believe a lot of this weight is in the wheels and tires. Even with the weight it was a lot of fun. Didn't want to leave the park, but I was losing daylight and did not have lights on the bike.

The next test will be a race on Sunday. Will be doing a team race with my oldest son.

Very excited to see BD's post on Facebook today. Would like to get another bike this fall so I can have a riding partner next winter.


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## metc1537 (Jun 30, 2010)

dbauer said:


> Last Friday evening I was able to reassemble my FB4 Comp with my upgrades. The bike had been completely stripped.


I was wondering if someone had compiled a list of things that should at least be looked over prior to riding these bikes. I'm still waiting on my Boris and in all likelihood, I will be stripping it nearly to the frame because I am particular about lubricated threads.

I was just curious what else, if anything, people were checking other than bearing surfaces.


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

Headset may settle in and need adjustment after a ride or two, (check for grease), shift cable may do the same and need a tweak/lube. At the shop I assembled 1000's of bikes and never felt like any customer was getting a short changed because we did not do a complete teardown/rebuild. (Wish I would have de-burred my Canfield before putting in a new Thomson post).


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## shnichol (Apr 27, 2007)

I received my orange FB4 Comp last week and am loving it. After freezing my fingers on the first ride, I picked up some Bar Mitts. I can now ride in 10 degree weather with thin gloves and my hands are toasty warm.


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## shnichol (Apr 27, 2007)

metc1537 said:


> I was wondering if someone had compiled a list of things that should at least be looked over prior to riding these bikes. I'm still waiting on my Boris and in all likelihood, I will be stripping it nearly to the frame because I am particular about lubricated threads.
> 
> I was just curious what else, if anything, people were checking other than bearing surfaces.


I'd suggest adjusting the wheel bearings. Mine were really tight, simply back off the cone a bit til it's smooth but no play. Everything else seemed pretty well assembled.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

metc1537 said:


> I was wondering if someone had compiled a list of things that should at least be looked over prior to riding these bikes. I'm still waiting on my Boris and in all likelihood, I will be stripping it nearly to the frame because I am particular about lubricated threads.
> 
> I was just curious what else, if anything, people were checking other than bearing surfaces.


My chainring bolts were so tight you have to really break them apart, I took a break in between each one to build up strength and snap them apart.


----------



## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

Did you float over 3 feet of powder and laugh?


----------



## shnichol (Apr 27, 2007)

3 feet of snow is not so much fun, especially the crusty stuff we have left over from the long winter in VT. As long as I stay on the snowshoe trails the missions are fine. A fresh inch of snow really helps with the traction, but the tires definitely have their limitations going up any type of incline. I have heard some people switch the direction of the rear tire, has this helped?


----------



## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

I just had my first actual repair experience on this bike. I've got 900 miles on it, and my bottom bracket has been starting to give me trouble. I took it into my LBS who very quickly diagnosed that indeed I managed to destroy the bearings in there. The bearing that didn't explode when he pulled off the crank did feel like it was packed with sand instead of grease. It seems a bit premature for the BB to fail, but Minnesota winters are harsh on bikes, especially when you use the bike for commuting in addition to other things, so I will wait to pass judgement on the part until I see how the replacement does. He put on a new BB and chain, since it was time for that, too. The guy at the shop is pretty cool. They've got some stools right by their work bench, and he was showing me and a couple kids what he was doing while he did it. Everything seems good, so now it is time for the real test ride. -3F and clear...I guess it's as good a time as any for a ride.


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

Just shaved 460 grams from fb4 elite by switching to a single 32 chainring


----------



## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

puchcobra said:


> Just shaved 460 grams from fb4 elite by switching to a single 32 chainring


That's what I did recently, not just for weight savings, but also for simplicity of components and cleaning. I left the FD on there, but I found that I was occasionally having trouble dropping chains, so I put a narrow/wide chainring on there. Mine is Race Face, but there are several brands out there doing it, including SRAM, though I think they use a proprietary (ick) bolt pattern on theirs. I left the FD on as a security blanket for a while, but after a very dicy 40 mile race, I'm satisfied enough with the chainring that I pulled the FD and shifter off altogether. I still feel like the 9 gears have plenty of range for my style of usage. Maybe in the summer I'll find a slightly larger chainring, since I won't be worrying about pushing through (or was that floating on?) 3 feet of snow!


----------



## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

yep I'm looking at NW rings on Ebay, the bike is down to 31 lbs now


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

N/W and clutch rear D FTW


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## puchcobra (Nov 6, 2013)

ok i have an xt rd that i can use the wolfs tooth looks nice so does raceface


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Today I removed my two largest chain rings because I wasn't using them and my snow pants kept getting caught on the big one. 4.8 ounce savings or 138 grams, not much. Also took some pics of my RD. Can you guys recommend a fix for the seemingly bent RD? I don't know how it got that way but I'd like to straighten it. Probably just the mounting bracket needs a little bend to it? Or shim it? 

Today was a good ride. I went out in a snow storm and really had to crank to get through it the last hour. About 10 miles but pushing through fresh snow the entire way. I was the only biker out. These bikes are the total cure for the winter blues. I ride 20 miles a weekend in the snow. Love it.


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## kris7047th (Dec 27, 2013)

FatBikeNoob said:


> Anyone have a green BD FB4 Comp? Nice platform pedals here: Fyxation Gates Platform Pedals at BikeTiresDirect


I have these on my Pugs.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

JoeMountain said:


> Can you guys recommend a fix for the seemingly bent RD?


Owning a derailleur gauge/straightening tool pays for itself quite quickly. DAG-2 is like $50. Park DAG-2 Derailleur Hanger Alignment Gauge from ModernBike.com I use mine for many years now - and help friends.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Axe said:


> Owning a derailleur gauge/straightening tool pays for itself quite quickly. DAG-2 is like $50. Park DAG-2 Derailleur Hanger Alignment Gauge from ModernBike.com I use mine for many years now - and help friends.


Thanks!!!! I'll get one.


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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

for $50 you can get a brand new RD and it will be an upgrade over what's stock on these bikes.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

rallymaniac said:


> for $50 you can get a brand new RD and it will be an upgrade over what's stock on these bikes.


Would not help a bit if the hanger is bent.

And it is always a good idea to invest in tools. Bent hangers are the most frequent cause of shifting problems. It will last for years, for all your bikes.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

In case anyone needs a new hanger, the wheels manufacturing #25 is a direct replacement.


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## Raidthefridgeguy (Apr 19, 2012)

Anyone else see the facebook post asking for feedback on upcoming Boris models? Suspension, and some pretty great price points. August delivery.....I may have to get a BD and get my upgrades locally at these prices.


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## Traktor (Oct 18, 2004)

Axe said:


> Would not help a bit if the hanger is bent.
> 
> And it is always a good idea to invest in tools. Bent hangers are the most frequent cause of shifting problems. It will last for years, for all your bikes.


I have had pretty good luck bending bent hangars back without a tool and just eyeballing the alignment. fine tuning with limit screws and cable adjustment.

Does the tool make that big of a difference?


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Raidthefridgeguy said:


> Anyone else see the facebook post asking for feedback on upcoming Boris models? Suspension, and some pretty great price points. August delivery.....I may have to get a BD and get my upgrades locally at these prices.


I have one coming end of the month, other than some cockpit adjustment/upgrades, I plan to ride it as it comes.


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## sbsbiker (Dec 1, 2007)

Traktor said:


> I have had pretty good luck bending bent hangars back without a tool and just eyeballing the alignment. fine tuning with limit screws and cable adjustment.
> 
> Does the tool make that big of a difference?


Yes it does, it allows for better alignment, and gives you a lever to reset to hanger. You can check alignment in more ways, for a better final alignment.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

This tool appears to be exactly what I need. I'm sure the hanger is bent and this video shows how easy it is to reset.

Derailleur Hanger Alignment - YouTube


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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

Axe said:


> Would not help a bit if the hanger is bent.
> 
> And it is always a good idea to invest in tools. Bent hangers are the most frequent cause of shifting problems. It will last for years, for all your bikes.


or you could use the free solution of flat surface and hammer or almost free solution if you already have vise to hold the hanger while it's being straighten out


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

rallymaniac said:


> or you could use the free solution of flat surface and hammer or almost free solution if you already have vise to hold the hanger while it's being straighten out


Not all hangers are flat, it is not always the hanger that is bent, and there is no way to check if your hamfisted hammering did not make things actually worse.

Just use the proper tools.


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

Is there any more to say about the new SE [email protected] offering? Other than they are the same Moto frame / fork with different paint and components.

The "matte grey" one looks more blue in the pictures. I'm not a fan of blue. But it's Deore components interest me.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Yeah I agree. Once I saw the video of how it worked I had to have it. All I have to do is dump my bike and I'll need it again. And again. And again. Lol.


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## bhc (Sep 27, 2005)

They aren't exclusive to Bikes Direct.

SE Fat Bikes


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## trojan9x (Dec 5, 2005)

They have the prices of the bikes almost opposite of what BD has them. Slightly different specs though.



bhc said:


> They aren't exclusive to Bikes Direct.
> 
> SE Fat Bikes


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

I like the blue/grey frame color. What BD fat bike does it match spec wise? Elite?


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

I will put a On-One floater my orange FB4 when it shows up but am thinking about going "full clown" with these new tires.








Not sure which color is the most obnoxious for my bike or the price/availability but the black ones are $69 from planetx uk. Hope the funky ones are not too much more.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

I guess with every imaginable pricepoint everyone can at least experience riding/ owning a fatty. Whether or not they'll stick with it remains to be seen. Edited my prior post, didnt want to come off as a bike snob. More people riding the better.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Fresh from the Taipei show:


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Hmmm those look familiar.Specs, pricepoint?


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

wrecognize said:


> Hmmm those look familiar.Specs, pricepoint?


No idea about pricepoint, but it is yet another rebadged Mk2 Diamant Mammut with some slight tweaks to the controls and RD from what I remember.
Getting kind of old, but we have introduced the improved Mk3, so could not care less.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Very over saturated market but cant say I'm suprised. I guess not much diff from when 29ers became mainstream. I rmbr going into a bike shop a while back before 29ers were popular in my area. Most of the guys were checking it out but there was one [email protected]$k who had a bunch of stupid comments. I rmbr him saying those will never last. And now its quite the opposite, almost odd when you see someone on a 26er. Things will die down eventually and you'll be left with the people who are riding because thats what they love, not because its a fad.


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## trojan9x (Dec 5, 2005)

Where are your bikes listed/sold?



Espen W said:


> No idea about pricepoint, but it is yet another rebadged Mk2 Diamant Mammut with some slight tweaks to the controls and RD from what I remember.
> Getting kind of old, but we have introduced the improved Mk3, so could not care less.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

trojan9x said:


> Where are your bikes listed/sold?


Norway and Australia


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

Espen W said:


> Norway and Australia


So, will the new Vee Snowshoe XL fit on the front and back of a Mk2?


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## trojan9x (Dec 5, 2005)

Do you have a link to your website where we can see your bikes?

Thanks



Espen W said:


> Norway and Australia


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Fatbikes | Nakamura.no


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

SocratesDiedTrolling said:


> So, will the new Vee Snowshoe XL fit on the front and back of a Mk2?


Will be tested next week. Should fit the front without mods.
On the rear, some folks have fitted the Lou without rubbing the frame or chain, while others had to trim the outer drive side row of knobs and rearrange the cassette somewhat. The Snowshoe XL should offer slightly more space, but stud height is the wildcard, so we'll see next week.


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## trojan9x (Dec 5, 2005)

Question regarding the MK3. Is that the bike that BikesDirect is planning on selling as the "Ivan" model?



Espen W said:


> No idea about pricepoint, but it is yet another rebadged Mk2 Diamant Mammut with some slight tweaks to the controls and RD from what I remember.
> Getting kind of old, but we have introduced the improved Mk3, so could not care less.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

So after watching the Mrs. working hard with her new clown wheels, I deceided we better drop some rotational weight if we are going trans FLA.
Apparently there are 2 disc spacing standards for fat bike front wheels, who new lol.
I got pretty attractive priceing thru Amazon on some origin 8 single wall 80mm hoops(apparently drilled weinman HL80's)
Wiggle was blowing out 2013 Hope Evo rear hubs and got a Hope fatso for the front.
Thats where things got messy, the Hope is rear disc spaced and the Fantom fork is front spaced standard.
There is a 5mm difference between the 2 standards, with the rear spacing coming in at 5mm futher inboard.
It looks like the solution for this is to either space out the rotor or caliper mounting bracket.
I originally intended to space out the bracket, but have since sent a little more $$$ to bike man for one of their 5mm rotor spacers and longer mounting hardware.
I have aquired q tubes and a pair of husker du's to complete the package.
It looks like spoke length for the front will be 260mm as the 263's I had in my spare parts bin started poking thru at only half tension, hope to pick up the freshly cut spokes from my LBS this afternoon and continue the build.
I will post up some weights and pics when this all comes together.
Oh, and if anyone is looking for a rack for these frames, I ended up with the Topeak disc mount version, with the disc mounts actually on the lower bosses.
I had to get the extended upper backet kit for the upper bosses as the stock brackets were gonna lead to conflict between the riders rear and any top mouted bags.
I think this was due to it being a 15" frame, a large frame may not require the extender kit.
The Topeak bags are modular as they slide into the rack and lock, kind of gimmicky but should work out pretty nice.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Got a nice big 1.5" nail through the low part of the tread yesterday while tooling around some of the remaining snow banks on the pavement in my neighborhood. 
Fortunately it was the rear wheel. I have to say that mounting and unmounting tires on the rear Weinmann 80mm rim is far easier than the 100mm front. I kinda wish both rims were 80mm, but the double drilled holes on the front definitely get people's attention. It would be great if BD or BikeIsland offers some fat bike rims and wheelsets soon.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

I got the tool which worked awesome. My hanger was pretty off. But now the derailleur is still not totally straight. So this is probably a derailleur issue now. It shifts ok, it's just that the idler cogs are not in a straight line when it's in the highest gear.


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

Anthem1 said:


> The Topeak bags are modular as they slide into the rack and lock, kind of gimmicky but should work out pretty nice.


I've actually been using one of these racks for about five years, first on my 26er XC/commuter and currently my 29er Adventure rig. I like the system, and have not had any issues. Here it is today with the matching trunk bag, one pannier open:









I've been considering buying a second one to throw on my Moto, so as to easily swap the bag from one bike to the other. Good to hear that it fits; I will order one soon.


----------



## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Just posted on their Facebook site









2015 FAT BIKE BORIS:
We are ecstatic that Motobecane will have the 2015 Boris X5, X7, and X9 versions headed our way in July of this year.

The BORIS X5 with come in SharkFinGray and Indigo [color pictured here]. We are hoping to start pre-book on that version in May for intro price of $595!!!

BORIS X7 will come in Matte Black, Burnt Orange, and Ocean Blue in 15m, 17m, 19m, and 21m. This Fat Bike will also come in Lilac and Seafoam in 15m & 17m only.

BORIS X9 will continue in Gloss Black and have added color of Metallic Silver.

We hope to have full pictures of each up in about 6 weeks.

As always, let us know what you think about these fatties with your comments!


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

I want GPS tracking of the container ship with my Boris!!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## cm11599ps (Nov 27, 2013)

I'm happy to report that I got my fatty about a month ago. I brought it in to be checked out and I had 3 issues with it.

1) Bent tooth on the big ring.
2) Chain noise on only the highest gear
3) Front brake caliper and rotor not playing nice with each other

Bikes Direct gave me a $20 refund on the bent tooth. They wanted me to send in the other problem pieces for a replacement but I opted to just bypass that and upgrade them. I got new cables, brakes, rotors and levers. I also had to get new grips because the stock foam grips wouldn't come off to install the new brake levers.

I just got her back from the shop and can't wait to get her out tomorrow! Weighs in at 35 lbs 12 oz. Say hello to Gravedigger......


----------



## red9 (Mar 11, 2014)

I'm 6'5" newbie looking at the BD Elite or Comp. Inseam is 35" about. I"m wondering if any other tall guys have ridden the large frame and found that it is big enough. Thanks!


----------



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I am 6' but have a 34.5 inseam, stupid long legs. I had a large FB4 and it worked great, though I had to put a 400mm seatpost on it to get up high enough, the stock one is too short. I found the cockpit fine with the included stem and handlebars, not sure how that would work out for you, its a long stem already.


----------



## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

red9 said:


> I'm 6'5" newbie looking at the BD Elite or Comp. Inseam is 35" about. I"m wondering if any other tall guys have ridden the large frame and found that it is big enough. Thanks!


I normally ride a large XC bike but got the medium so I could get up over the front end a bit easier. With some extra wide bars and long post you should be golden.


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

red9 said:


> I'm 6'5" newbie looking at the BD Elite or Comp. Inseam is 35" about. I"m wondering if any other tall guys have ridden the large frame and found that it is big enough. Thanks!


I'm 6'2" with around a 34" inseam and based upon the bikes I own that fit me properly I thought the moto's would be too small so I went with the Boris. From what I recall the Boris had the longest tt available among budget fat bikes.


----------



## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

jkbike said:


> I just had my first actual repair experience on this bike. I've got 900 miles on it, and my bottom bracket has been starting to give me trouble. I took it into my LBS who very quickly diagnosed that indeed I managed to destroy the bearings in there. The bearing that didn't explode when he pulled off the crank did feel like it was packed with sand instead of grease. It seems a bit premature for the BB to fail, but Minnesota winters are harsh on bikes, especially when you use the bike for commuting in addition to other things, so I will wait to pass judgement on the part until I see how the replacement does. He put on a new BB and chain, since it was time for that, too. The guy at the shop is pretty cool. They've got some stools right by their work bench, and he was showing me and a couple kids what he was doing while he did it. Everything seems good, so now it is time for the real test ride. -3F and clear...I guess it's as good a time as any for a ride.


My bottom bracket died too, after ~500 miles of mostly commuting in the snow and slush. What did your LBS replace it with? I took mine off, and the spindle is kind of an odd diameter for a fat bike (19mm).


----------



## cm11599ps (Nov 27, 2013)

Any idea on the torque setting for the seat post clamp?


----------



## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

cm11599ps said:


> Any idea on the torque setting for the seat post clamp?


Tight, but not too tight? It's a standard part, so I'd imagine it's the same as whatever you usually use.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

I've been doing more commuting with my girlfriend, and as our fitness levels are different, I've been using the FB4 Elite so that I can still get a workout while we ride together. 
So, for the warm weather, I ordered a 26x3.5 Origin8 Captiv8er UL 60tpi (basically a Vee Speedster, at 1080 grams) for the rear, and a barely used 27tpi Surly Larry 3.8 for the front. Looking forward to the combo, only cost me $100. Will grab a pair of Nates or Floaters for trails/snow later this year. 

My other bikes are pretty enjoyable to ride, but the FB4 is definitely the most fun.


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## randomsample (Sep 23, 2013)

Anyone else replace their bottom bracket yet? The 19mm spindle is throwing me off.


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## red9 (Mar 11, 2014)

Mr Doom - Thank you. I think I'm going to give it a try!


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

randomsample said:


> My bottom bracket died too, after ~500 miles of mostly commuting in the snow and slush. What did your LBS replace it with? I took mine off, and the spindle is kind of an odd diameter for a fat bike (19mm).


Sorry, I didn't see this earlier. 
According to the receipt, it is a FSA BB-7000 MegaExo. It is what they happened to have in stock that fit properly. It is actually an 83mm BB, but they make a 100mm version. The middle is just a plastic spacer, so he reused the spacer that came with the bike, and everything worked fine. 
Also, I just noticed he made a joke on my receipt: "Moter Bacon Fat Bike Black" (he rides a Pugsley)


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Jisch said:


> I am 6' but have a 34.5 inseam, stupid long legs. I had a large FB4 and it worked great


Past tense? Upgraded already? Hope it held some resale value for you.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I did upgrade to a fatboy. I got $800 for it with the upgrades I put into it (tires, cassette, derailleur and grips). I sold it to a friend so I wasn't looking for top dollar, but I think that was fair, it only had 200 miles on it.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## MadCityMike (Mar 17, 2014)

Upgraded to Bud/Lou w/ a 30 tooth RaceFace single crank. I removed the front derailleur in the process, but am not sure about the bracket sandwiched between the BB and the shell. If I remove that do I have to replace it with something to fill in the space it will leave, or can I get away with just removing it? Is there a specific spacer meant for this purpose that I can buy?


----------



## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

MadCityMike said:


> Upgraded to Bud/Lou w/ a 30 tooth RaceFace single crank. I removed the front derailleur in the process, but am not sure about the bracket sandwiched between the BB and the shell. If I remove that do I have to replace it with something to fill in the space it will leave, or can I get away with just removing it? Is there a specific spacer meant for this purpose that I can buy?
> 
> View attachment 877561


Yes, you need to install a standard BB spacer. I think they are 2.5mm.
Wheels MFG Bottom Bracket Spacers | Wheels Manufacturing | Brand | www.PricePoint.com


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Hey guys,

Great thread, I've read a lot of the pages. 

I have been looking at picking up a Fat Bike for a few years, but the prices always seemed to be too steep for my needs. It would not be primary bike. I own a ski house in Maine and live right next to some xc ski trails and snowmobile trails. I would probably use the bike in the winter " on occasion" when I'm not snowboarding. Maybe I'd ride it 10 times per winter. I also live next to a xc mtn bike trail network, so maybe I would ride it a few times in the summer too, instead of my regular mtn bike.
But definitely not my primary ride, and seeing as I already have a nice mtn bike and decent road bike, my " need" for a Fat Bike is fairly low, so the sub $1k price is attractive. 

The comp model for $695 seems like a decent value to me. I have a bunch of parts laying around ( doing nothing right now) to improve the bike, including stems/handlebars/seat/seat post/ crank set/bb7 brakes/x9 shifters etc. Is the crankset on this model easy to swap out? 

Is there one item on this bike that everyone immediately swaps out? From what I read, most seem to think the tires are just so so. I see Maxxis has some new tires coming out, so maybe I'd upgrade those too.

I noticed there are Fantom Comps and Fantom Elites, but couldn't tell the difference. Help? 

Has everyone been satisfied with their Fantom purchase so far? I 'm not expecting this to be the holy grail of bikes, just something for fun and something different. I am not a bike snob, so I really don't care what name brand is on it. I just want it to work when I want to ride it and not have a bunch of head aches associated with it.

I'm 6'0 feet tall so I'm thinking the large 19" is the right fit? 

Thanks for any feedback. I may pre-order one this week.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Nail Every Trail said:


> Is there one item on this bike that everyone immediately swaps out? From what I read, most seem to think the tires are just so so.


-Tires, definitely. Will depend on what/where you are riding, but the Vee Missions just got to go, especially up front. I like Surly Larry up front for better control. A lot of folks are loving the On One Floaters as a good all season, affordable 120tpi option.
-Rear derailleur too if you do a lot of trail and don't want to hear the chain slapping the stay. I put an XT on my Elite that I got a good deal on at Jenson through a pricematch. 
-Some folks go with the Super Light Q-Tubes to save on rotational weight. I'm not too worried about it personally as I'd rather have tubes less prone to punctures. A happy medium is the "Q-Tubes 26" x 2.4-2.75" 32mm PRESTA Valve Tube" (Not the Super Light), they only weigh 27 grams more than the Super Light and are still a good 170 grams lighter than the stock tubes or Surly tubes.
-Grips. A personal choice. I should have kept the stock grips on there but put some SRAM grips on thinking I'd like them more but they turned out being too hard. I wouldn't look to change grips until after you've put a few long rides in to see how you like or dislike the stock grips.



> I noticed there are Fantom Comps and Fantom Elites, but couldn't tell the difference. Help?


Sure,
Comp: Tektro Hydro brakes, Acera RD/Shifters, Cheaper crankset, HG20 Cassette

Elite: Shimano Hydro, Alivio RD/Shifters (Shifters are quite good actually), HG30 Cassette, FSA Stem/Handlebars.

Seems like Comps are shipping with the 100mm front wheels too but aren't double drilled out like the Elites, so perhaps the Elite's front wheel is a bit lighter? I can't say for sure. BD Specs also lists the drilled out holes themselves as wider holes on the Elites (32mm vs 28mm).



> Has everyone been satisfied with their Fantom purchase so far? I 'm not expecting this to be the holy grail of bikes, just something for fun and something different. I am not a bike snob, so I really don't care what name brand is on it. I just want it to work when I want to ride it and not have a bunch of head aches associated with it.
> 
> I'm 6'0 feet tall so I'm thinking the large 19" is the right fit?


It's a wonderful bike and my favorite to ride. I've had my Elite now for over a month. The front rotor needed trued at my local bike shop but otherwise it came in wonderful condition and I couldn't be happier. The matte black on the Elite is very sharp too. I get a lot of head turns when I commute with it. I spent a little cash flashing it up, replacing the green details with anodized red and putting retro reflective tape in under the rim strip. I feel the Elite is a good platform to get flashy with should you want to. If you don't mind the orange or green, the Comp is an excelent value. Sometimes I do wish the Elite had an 80mm front rim instead of the 100mm, as I'd like to fit a 26x3.5" Captiv-8er UL for commuting in the front (as I have in the back), but I'm becoming real happy with the Larry 3.8 on there at 20psi, and I know I'll enjoy the wider footprint next winter, perhaps with a Big Fat Larry up gront. I'll keep my eyes and ears open for a good deal on a symetrical 135mm front wheel in 65 or 80mm in the future for commuting purposes.

For tires I would suggest researching the fat bike forum for your uses, and looking for good deals on lightly used ones, trying out as many as you can afford to. I got my Larry 27tpi for $50 shipped and it only saw 100 miles of snow, and an Endo coming for rear trail use for $40 shipped. I've learned with fat bikes, tires are everything. You can completely change the capability and purpose of the bike by swapping tires.

As far as size, I'm 6'0" also but have a 30" inseam. I pre-ordered a 19" because that's what I ride usually and when the bikes arrived at BD, they were shorted 19"'s and gave me $50 off to go down to a 17". I reluctantly did because I was unwilling to wait, but it turns out it was a good move as I fit the 17" perfectly. The 19" would have been far too big. I think with fat bikes the sizing is different than regular MTBs due to everything being just a bit more exploded and big. Higher BB and bigger tires means you'll want more standover in snow while your boots sink but your tires float. So I'd say if you're under a 31" inseam go with the 17".


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## pucelano (Oct 17, 2009)

Nail Every Trail said:


> Is there one item on this bike that everyone immediately swaps out?


Tires: OnOne Floaters. As everyone has said, good and inexpensive.
Seatpost: Easton EA70 400mm, as the stock was short for me
Large chainring: BBG bashguard, converted to 2x9

I will replace the rear derailleur when the current one breaks. I'm looking also to replace the grips, as the foam ones that came with the bike have some edges that hit me in the wrong place.



Nail Every Trail said:


> I'm 6'0 feet tall so I'm thinking the large 19" is the right fit?


I'm 5'11", 32" inseam, and the 17" fits me like a glove. Enjoy your bike; it's really fun not only on the snow, but on the trails, specially now that mud season is upon us.


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## hykerwilson (Jan 19, 2014)

I did not even ride the bike with the stock crank or bb. I bought a used e13 fat bike crank set as I have loved their standard 68mm bb and hive stuff. great deal, stiff and smooth. super light too.


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## sbsbiker (Dec 1, 2007)

Got the Elite, have about 500 miles on it. It's fun for what it can do. I replaced the rear Deraileur (my LBS had a used 9sp xtr I got for $50), got a longer seat post, new Ergon grips, and a pair of 45n Dillingers. I'm also a 19" on my race bike, and 57 on the road, and got the 17 for better stand over. The top tube is almost the same on the 17 or 19. It fits great with the longer seat post.


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Guys, thanks for your responses regarding the Fantom Fattie. I really appreciate your thoughts.

I'm lucky that I have enough decent spare parts leftover so that I can almost replace everything that comes stock on the bike. I just wanted to make sure people were satisfied with the frame and wheelset mostly. If these seem to be of decent quality I can always swap out the stuff that seems inferior when I need to.

The sizing is a bit tough to decide on. I'm 6'0 with 32" inseam. So I could go for either a medium to large according to the sizing chart. I ride a large RIP 9, have an older FSR XC in large and ride a large road bike too. I had a medium frame mountain bike a while back and it always felt a bit too small, and I needed to extend the seat post out a lot. I'm thinking I may just go with the large 19" Fantom. I guess it's not going to make a huge difference either way and I'm probably over thinking this.

Now to decide on a color!


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## newfydog (May 8, 2009)

I'm 6", 32 inseam and love the fit of the 19".

I got the elite, and have to admit I'm surprised at how well everything works. My other bikes are XTR and this stuff works just fine to me. I won't use the fattie that much, so I should get good lifespan from the Acera shifters etc.

What is the main benefit to replacing the front tire? less self steer?


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Nail Every Trail said:


> The sizing is a bit tough to decide on. I'm 6'0 with 32" inseam. So I could go for either a medium to large according to the sizing chart. I ride a large RIP 9, have an older FSR XC in large and ride a large road bike too. I had a medium frame mountain bike a while back and it always felt a bit too small, and I needed to extend the seat post out a lot. I'm thinking I may just go with the large 19" Fantom. I guess it's not going to make a huge difference either way and I'm probably over thinking


.7" stand over and .6" effective top tube difference. I think the 19" will fit you fine.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

newfydog said:


> I'm 6", 32 inseam and love the fit of the 19".
> 
> I got the elite, and have to admit I'm surprised at how well everything works. My other bikes are XTR and this stuff works just fine to me. I won't use the fattie that much, so I should get good lifespan from the Acera shifters etc.
> 
> What is the main benefit to replacing the front tire? less self steer?


Your Elite should have Alivio shifters.

Yes, when I put a Surly Larry 3.8" up front the self steer went away and overall handling became super sharp, even with a Mission still in rear. In front, it sets up just as wide as the mission, yet is more round.
I believe the missions are more prone to self steer at equivalent lower psi of other tires and from what I understand the 100mm front rim flattens out the tire more so and makes the effect worse.


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

Mk3Rider said:


> Link as follows:
> 
> Save Up To 60% Off Fat Bikes and Fat Mountain Bicycles from bikesdirect.com
> 
> Discuss!


Save Up To 60% Off Fat Bikes and Fat Mountain Bicycles from bikesdirect.com

They now have the Gravity Bullseye and Gravity Monster bikes for sale...$450-$500. Mission 4" tires.

Don't know how good these bikes are, but definitely a low end option for people that want to try fat biking.


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## trojan9x (Dec 5, 2005)

Monster versions of the Gravity bikes have 4" tires while the non-monster bikes have 3" tires.


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

You are right, I had looked only at the "Monster" versions. The Bullseye Monster looks a lot like this bike:

Source 26inch Fat Tire Bike Aluminum Frame 16 Speed Cruiser Fat Bike/Bicicleta/andnaor para crianca SY-FT26002 on m.alibaba.com


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## TrailCrawler (Aug 24, 2013)

AdamJay said:


> - I'll keep my eyes and ears open for a good deal on a symetrical 135mm front wheel in 65 or 80mm in the future for commuting purposes.


I was checking out the Framed fat bike wheels the other day. They don't tell the width of the rim, but looking at it I'm guessing 65mm or 80mm for $130.
On Sale Bike Wheels - Road Bike Wheels - The-House.com


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

TrailCrawler said:


> I was checking out the Framed fat bike wheels the other day. They don't tell the width of the rim, but looking at it I'm guessing 65mm or 80mm for $130.


Q&A on this page: On Sale Framed Minnesota 2.0 Fat Bike Black 2014 says 80mm.

Seems a good deal, but the quando hub concerns me. I had a bad quando hub experience. The anodized red would look very nice on how I've set up my Elite. I'll have to ask around the Minnesota thread about how the hubs are working out.

Thanks for the tip!

As for the Gravity bikes, I'm buying my girlfriend a Gravity Bullseye 3". She loves Orange and I think she'd do better on 3" tires. Showing her how to ride my Elite was like teaching someone to drive a stick-shift. The rise was just a bit too much for her.
If she wants to try the Missions, she can have the ones that came off my Elite. I like that the 50mm rims have a lot of range in tire sizes. Seems like it could easily be transitioned into a rigid MTB with a simple tire swap.


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

How easy it to remove the large rings on these and add a bash guard? I have an extra Race Face 32t bash, and I'd probably want to get rid of the big ring and just run it 2x9. 
I ran 2x9 on my other bikes, until recently when I switched to 1x10. I think the weight of these fat bikes necessitates having a low granny and probably while not needing the tallest gears on a 3x9. I don't envision myself really zipping around 100mph on this thing, just plodding along in the snow or cruising around town.


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## pucelano (Oct 17, 2009)

Nail Every Trail said:


> How easy it to remove the large rings on these and add a bash guard? I have an extra Race Face 32t bash, and I'd probably want to get rid of the big ring and just run it 2x9.


I replaced the large ring with a BBG bash guard without any trouble. The most difficult thing was to loosen up the chainring bolts--they had been tightened by a gorilla. Loosen each one a little bit at a time, rather than loosening one of them completely before doing a second one. That way you will not stress out any of the bolts.
I'm very happy with my 2x9 set up. This winter I spent most of the time in the granny ring, but this will surely change this spring.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

TrailCrawler said:


> I was checking out the Framed fat bike wheels the other day. They don't tell the width of the rim, but looking at it I'm guessing 65mm or 80mm for $130.


So, after more research, I think I am just going to have my LBS build a front wheel for me from a 47mm JetSet rim, and a 135mm Wheel Master 36h sealed hub. It'll only run about $45 more (than the Framed MN wheel) after the build cost which is worth not getting all 'noided out for running a quando hub.


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## TrailCrawler (Aug 24, 2013)

AdamJay said:


> So, after more research, I think I am just going to have my LBS build a front wheel for me from a 47mm JetSet rim, and a 135mm Wheel Master 36h sealed hub. It'll only run about $45 more (than the Framed MN wheel) after the build cost which is worth not getting all 'noided out for running a quando hub.


Good deal. Post pics when it gets done! I've been checking out the 47mm Trialtech rims. The red anodized rims catch my eye. My bike (Origin8 Crawler) is a dark gray and I think the red would look good on it. This was after seeing the Framed 2.0 bikes that were gray with the red rims, to me they look great!

If I go through with the Trialtech rims then I either need another set of hubs for my 80mm rims (Nuvinci's are expensive enough!) or buy a bike better suited for snow riding; which to me would mean low gearing, 100mm rims, bud/lou tires, and 190mm rear hub. So, I've been waiting to see what Bikesdirect offers for the 190mm frames supposedly offered sometime this year? Decisions, decisions...


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Just placed an order for the Orange 19" Fantom comp. Pretty psyched. I'll have it before summer comes, which will give me plenty of time to upgrade it before next winter gets here. First thing I will do is replace the cassette, rear derail,chain and shifters and cables as I have some new Sram x9 9 speed stuff laying around. I'll convert it to 2x9, and put on a bash. 2nd, I'll order up some new tires. I may wait until the Maxxis Mammoths come out in the fall. I'll probably put a new seat on it, and upgrade the grips. Hopefully the stem is right size, or that gets swapped out. I'm also going to put some BB7 brakes on it. I have a fairly new set, 180/160 that should work well. I need to find some bling for my seat post clamp and headset spacers.
Anyways, been looking forward to owning a fat bike and orange is my favorite color so this should do the ticket.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Nice good luck, I have the comp in green. I did a bunch of upgrading as well right away, had alot in my parts bin aka my garage. Fsa stem, groovy luv bars, slx shifters,xt r/d,xtr cassette,sram chain,2x9 with r/face bash, thomson seatpost,soma saddle,odi rouge grips,larry front,nate rear, q tubes,eggbeater pedals. Very happy with it so far, only thing left is a wheelset but in no rush. I weigh 240 so not really much of a weight weenie.


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

*The wait is killing me.*

Alright, time to come clean. I've had a matte grey SE [email protected] on pre order since they announced. I've been biding my time like a kid with presents under a tree the day after Thanksgiving.

Don't get me wrong. This thread has been a huge help. Ive read every post twice. And then theres YouTube.

I want to give Espen a shout out. He's been a real contributer here. The comments about sizing helped too. Me being a 6' clydesdale right in between a medium and large frame.

But COME ON I'm probably two weeks out from getting it and I'm starting to lose my cool. This is my first new bike in several years. Im that guy on a 26 with BB5's (because they were new then). Even hydraulic breaks are new to me. I just got to have this thing!

Been fat curious for a year now. But the price of a Pugs or Mukluk have kept me away. I've been VERY happy with my track bike from BD. So... I had no issue pulling the trigger.

My bike is going to on be a desert rat. Going tubless day one with all the pokey stuff we have here in AZ. Other than that, I plan to start out riding it pretty stock. My friend and riding buddy has a Mukluk and I see us doing trails. But I also see it going to adventure bike levels too. Bike packing maybe. Possibly even taking it on hunting trips.

*sigh* Time to go look at the two crappy pictures of it on BD again and try to convince myself that its actually grey and not blue. While I wait some more.

Keep the posts coming please.


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

Is the [email protected] a BD original frame? The Fantom F4 Comp is based on the Nakamura BigBob. The Boris is based on the Four Season KHS 3000. The Fantom Elite and Pro have a frame that appears different than all of the above. The Gravity ones seem to be a frame made in China, don't know if it is a big brand. Of course, nearly ALL bikes are made in China or Taiwan.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Boris? are you here????


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## 2002maniac (Nov 17, 2008)

The Fantom Comp, Elite, and Pro use the same frame and fork.


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## trojan9x (Dec 5, 2005)

The SE Fat Bikes appears to use the same frame as the Motobecane Fantom just based on visual inspection. Espen W would be able to tell you better as he is very familiar with these bikes.



FoafInTX said:


> Is the [email protected] a BD original frame? The Fantom F4 Comp is based on the Nakamura BigBob. The Boris is based on the Four Season KHS 3000. The Fantom Elite and Pro have a frame that appears different than all of the above. The Gravity ones seem to be a frame made in China, don't know if it is a big brand. Of course, nearly ALL bikes are made in China or Taiwan.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

trojan9x said:


> The SE Fat Bikes appears to use the same frame as the Motobecane Fantom just based on visual inspection. Espen W would be able to tell you better as he is very familiar with these bikes.


Yep, same one.
The Mk2 Mammut/BigBobs have now spawned the Motobecanes, the Fuji and now the SE. The parents are quite proud, but have realized that the factory (Ideal China) must calm things down a little, especially for the Mk3 bikes that we are receiving now.
The showed a clone of that at the Taipei show, so they will now sign a contract, so that our design/spec is not cloned within 6 months (we introduce a new Mk twice a year now), and 12 months in the case of brands that ship to Norway and AUS/NZ where we now distribute Diamant and Nakamura fatbikes.

Commented in the SE thread as well:
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/[email protected]


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

For you folks flashing up the rimstrip like I did, be careful with your air pressure, especially up front. I noticed one of the drilled holes that shows my reflective red tape had pushed the tape up to a point that it had started to tear the tape a bit. It's still on pretty good due to the adhesive backing which is adhering to the old green rimstrip that has been duct -taped to the rim, but it's not looking as sharp as the others.







It was taking a Larry 3.8/27tpi past 18psi that did this. If anyone knows or more durable reflective red tape than this stuff: Amazon.com: JVCC REF-7 Engineering Grade Reflective Tape: 1 in. x 30 ft. (Red): Home Improvement , well, I'm all ears.

For the warmer months commuting, I'm running Larry up front on the 100mm rim with an Origin8 Captiv-8er UL 60tpi folding 3.5" tire in rear on the 80mm rim. At 13psi/17psi respectively. This combo rolls fast and gives greater control than the Missions. I'm baffled at how far off the mark Vee was with the Mission tire. Also glad I got the Captiv-8er (essentially a 60tpi folding Speedster) for $43 shipped before the price went up. Wonderful hardpack/pavement tire.

After mounting the 3.5" tire to the 80mm Weinmann rim, I find myself wishing my Elite had a pair of 80mm Weinmanns instead of the 100/80 combo. It is so much easier to mount and unmount tires from the rear rim. Getting Larry on front was nearly a nightmare, while every time I've swapped the rear it's been one of the easiest changes. I guess it's time to look at building my own 80mm front wheel.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

Hey owners of fantom FB4 , im in the market for one of these bikes, im trying to figure some stuffs out before i really buy it. 

here are some questions : do the headset, hubs and bottom bracket have sealed bearings? is the rear hub loud? ( compare to hope pro 2) whats the front and rear hub spacing?

i really would like to buy a cheaper fantom fb4 comp in all black and upgrade from there. too bad they only have orange and green as of now


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## hykerwilson (Jan 19, 2014)

Does anyone know if the Gravity Monster frame has the same rear chain stay and seat stay spacing as the FB4? I have a FB4 and I can fit a 4.8" tire in the rear I was wondering if the Gravity is limited to the 4" sized tires.

Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Gravity 2014 Bullseye Monster

because if you are planning on swapping out all the low end components then just buy that bike. I could have saved $200. I ended up building a set of Rolling Darryls and a set of Marge lites. Both wheels are at least 3lbs lighter per set than the stock. not to mention the single wall rim does not capture loads of water and sand and other mud products.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

akacoke said:


> here are some questions : do the headset, hubs and bottom bracket have sealed bearings? is the rear hub loud? ( compare to hope pro 2) whats the front and rear hub spacing?


Headset and hubs are loose bearing (100% sure on headset, 90% sure on hubs), bottom bracket is sealed bearings. Hub is not loud. Front and rear are both 135mm.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

I just ordered a blue anodized 32 104BCD Bashguard. I removed all my chain rings except the granny gear. I want to put back the 32 and install the Bashguard to cover it. Should look nice. Here's a pic of it. Spoke to the owner and he was very helpful as well as a cool guy to talk to. Of course what else would you expect from a fellow biker?


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

No blue 36t bbg bash guards and he said he would have them months ago
Still waiting! Love the bbg I have!

Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Rcksqrl said:


> No blue 36t bbg bash guards and he said he would have them months ago
> 
> Sent from magic wish granting phone


You can get them in many styles. Maybe he has the 36T in another style...like ultra light, oval holes....etc.

Also eBay has tons of these things in various brands. Lots of 36T. Check it out.

bashguard | eBay

RaceFace 36T Light Bash Guard Blue 104mm BCD Mountain Bike MTB Use | eBay


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

I'd like to discuss tires for a moment please.

Going on a new Fantom Comp. 

I ride in the mountains of Maine, so I'm going to need some snow tires. It seems like the bigger the tire the better, for more float. What is the biggest tire that will fit on this frame? 

I will probably stick to riding some of the local snowmobile trails and we also have a nice trail system nearby that gets packed down by xc skiers and snowshoers. I don't think I'm going to be taking this bike out into the wilderness or anything where I need to break fresh trail. 

I have also read thru this entire thread and it seems that everyone replaces the Mission tires immediately. In the summer I will probably ride a local xc loop on this bike too, the trail has a lot of quick up and downs, roots and rocks. It's a very slow riding loop. It's often damp but not muddy. Would the On One Floaters be able to handle dirt like this and snow too? If not, I'll get a pair of dirt tires and a pair of snow tires. 

I'm not going to run tubless, I'll just get some q-tubes lightweight tubes and save some weight that way. 

I may end up waiting to see how the Maxxis Mammoth does when they come out. I like the Ardent and these look similar. Might be a good all arounder. 

Thanks for any feedback.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I don't think you'll get anything wider than the Floater in the back. I think you could get something wider in the front if you wanted to, but the Floater on the 100mm rim spreads out pretty good. The Floaters are great all condition tires, both in snow and in dirt, I wouldn't worry about using them year round. I think Nates are better in loose snow, but they are twice the money. The Missions would probably be fine in dry dirt riding conditions, but I found once the leaves came down the Floaters were a huge improvement.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

I used the stock ones in snow in Wisconsin. I know some others might work better but I had no major issues. I'll keep the stock ones for probably another season. I plan to only ride in snow with mine.


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Okay, thanks for the feedback. Maybe I'll just use/abuse the stock Missions for the summer on the few days that I ride the fattie, and pick up something better for the next winter. I probably won't ride dirt all that much anyways with the fat bike, since I like my mtn bike for general riding anyways. This is just going to be my fun toy when I don't feel like snowboarding or just need a break from the mountain. If I can just deal with the Missions for the summer riding without spending any more cash on the bike I'd be happy.


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## CC-John (Jun 2, 2012)

Well, my tracking info. got updated today... The big brown truck should be dropping a shiny new Boris off at my door tomorrow..


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## roundtheworld (Feb 11, 2014)

Yep, nothing too terribly wrong with the stock Vee tires that come on the bike. Only fair to wear them out first and then upgrade as the tires are a significant investment anyways. Don't give back the bike savings by needlessly upgrading. Tires worked fine for me this winter. Might even push it and use them next winter to if I don't grind them down too much from summer riding where I might even take this thing on 200km - 400km road tours. It seems capable of being a good touring bike in addition to the other uses I have found for it.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

CC-John said:


> Well, my tracking info. got updated today... The big brown truck should be dropping a shiny new Boris off at my door tomorrow..


YESSSSSS!!!!!!! going to check mine


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Nail Every Trail said:


> Okay, thanks for the feedback. Maybe I'll just use/abuse the stock Missions for the summer on the few days that I ride the fattie, and pick up something better for the next winter. I probably won't ride dirt all that much anyways with the fat bike, since I like my mtn bike for general riding anyways. This is just going to be my fun toy when I don't feel like snowboarding or just need a break from the mountain. If I can just deal with the Missions for the summer riding without spending any more cash on the bike I'd be happy.


I found the missions decent in rear for dry conitions but awful up front no matter the conditions. The self steer never scared me like other people have noted, it was more just annoying and took away from the joy of riding. You can find lightly used Surly Larry 3.8's for $50, sometimes even in 120tpi casing. This is a far better handling all around front tire, and pretty economnical too.

I doubt I'll ever mount the Missions again.


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## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

I clicked on my original order and it has shipped - be here on thursday. the really bad news for my wife is I bought it mostly for beach trips and now that they have single speeds I feel that I should also get one of those


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Mine should Be here Friday... Finally!! Have a friend who may buy a fat bike off I how he likes mine.... Hoping I have enough downtime at work to throw it together there!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

Found link with BD FB4 Comp orange with Bud/Lou combo at 4.8" each:
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/moto-bikes-direct-fatbikes-875900-59.html#post11008113

Found link with FB4 Elite with Bud/Lou combo at 4.8" each, looks REAL tight but make it:

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/moto-bikes-direct-fatbikes-875900-42.html#post10826588

Post #1032 from above link:

"I'm 190lbs and have run as low as 4.5 in the rear and 4.0 up front with no rubbing at all - honestly in the rear its 3/8 to 1/2 inch clearance except for the chain which is more like 1/4 inch in the granny gear. My experience suggests the tire grows with more pressure not less and the "squash" under low pressure rebounds before heading up toward the chain or stays, so less pressure creates more space not less. On the front tire, if I put 10lbs in the "nubbies" start hitting, and over 12 lbs the actual tread starts to hit the fork - but no reason to run that kind of pressure. (I pumped it to 20 lbs to seat it and could not even turn the wheel.)

One thing that for sure I've experienced is that the rear needs more pressure than the front - likely for 2 reasons, 1) the rear has more of your weight on it, and 2) the 100m rim in front creates a larger diameter profile and the tire is less bouncy than the rear under low pressure - the rear is rounder and taller, the front is wider and flatter. When I rode at 4.5 the other night I was bouncing with each pedal stroke which was somewhat annoying.

Also for what it is worth I took off the large chainring, but ended up putting in back on because I needed it for downhills and cross races (and iceman) where I use it quite a bit.

Last thing - I'm 5'11 w/ 32 inseam and put on a 400m post and I have that maxed in order for it to fit me (this is on the medium) - I probably would have bought the large..."

Looks sweet and would be my ideal tire setup. 4.8" on both. If you're gonna go fat, why not the fattest


----------



## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

Espen, saw this pic in your photobucket pics. Colored Missions?? Tapei Show??


----------



## CC-John (Jun 2, 2012)

YESSSSSS....... Just checked tracking info on my Boris...

" Houston, TX, United States 03/25/2014 5:46 A.M. Out For Delivery "

Will try to get some pics of it up this evening..


----------



## metc1537 (Jun 30, 2010)

CC-John said:


> YESSSSSS....... Just checked tracking info on my Boris...
> 
> " Houston, TX, United States 03/25/2014 5:46 A.M. Out For Delivery "
> 
> Will try to get some pics of it up this evening..


You better! I'm going to be living vicariously for two more _looong_ days.


----------



## Joyota (Aug 27, 2013)

Can't wait to see it! I missed my chance to order one delivered in March, but I'm hoping to see what people post about them and maybe order one in the Summer/Fall.


----------



## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

donn12 said:


> I clicked on my original order and it has shipped - be here on thursday. the really bad news for my wife is I bought it mostly for beach trips and now that they have single speeds I feel that I should also get one of those


The KHS has what appear to be horizontal dropouts/sliders. 
Another selling feature fo this frame for me.
Should be able to SS th Boris if it comes simiarily equipped.


----------



## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

I've got 3 days to wait..... Dang it...

Sent from magic wish granting phone


----------



## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

Anthem1 said:


> The KHS has what appear to be horizontal dropouts/sliders.
> Another selling feature fo this frame for me.
> Should be able to SS th Boris if it comes simiarily equipped.


I'm eager to see whether we got the sliders or not. Sliders was one the main selling points for me, but we have yet to see any actual pics of this Boris. Some of the upcoming Boris pics showed standard dropouts,but BD did mention the Boris X9 would be available again but not in its current form. Maybe dropouts will be the difference?? My bike isn't scheduled for delivery till Thursday so hopefully somebody will receive today and get some pics up.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

finny1999 said:


> I'm eager to see whether we got the sliders or not. Sliders was one the main selling points for me, but we have yet to see any actual pics of this Boris. Some of the upcoming Boris pics showed standard dropouts,but BD did mention the Boris X9 would be available again but not in its current form. Maybe dropouts will be the difference?? My bike isn't scheduled for delivery till Thursday so hopefully somebody will receive today and get some pics up.


Thursday for me too.
Got my fingers crossed on the same single wall hoops and everything cage bosses on the fork of the KHS.


----------



## CC-John (Jun 2, 2012)

Well, the big brown truck dropped off a big azz box this afternoon..

Here's the first pics of a Boris up close and personal..

Box looks ok..



Hmmmm, check out the "4 SEASON" printed on the box..



Let's pop it open and see what we got here..



Unwrapped the seatpost so I could install it before hanging the bike on the workstand and what appears....... A KHS logo, hmmmmm..



Got it out of the box and on the stand for a few quick pics... Got "Made in Taiwan" loud & proud right on the front of the headtube..





Some closeups of the dropout/sliders.. I haven't had a chance to break them down yet to confirm if they're actually sliders or not..





Front derailler..



Front fork has a ton of places for racks..




Box full of small parts, at least they left the "dork disc" to be installed or not..




Instructions for the rear dropouts..



Stem has a KHS logo...



After a quick & dirty assembly to verify that all parts were present and accounted for..



More pics to follow after I install a whole box of bling I got for it during all the year-end sales..


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## metc1537 (Jun 30, 2010)

CC-John said:


> Well, the big brown truck dropped off a big azz box this afternoon..
> 
> Here's the first pics of a Boris up close and personal..


Thanks so much CC for prioritizing your friends here at mtbr. I can't wait to get mine and this is exactly the kind of unboxing I was hoping for. I can't believe the fork shipped with the brazeons! Awesome. Is the front rotor 180mm?


----------



## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

CC-John said:


> Well, the big brown truck dropped off a big azz box this afternoon..
> 
> Here's the first pics of a Boris up close and personal..
> 
> More pics to follow after I install a whole box of bling I got for it during all the year-end sales..


Thanks for the pics! Bike looks better than anticipated. It'll be a long wait till Thursday, hopefully the signature required doesn't push it till Friday.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

CC-John said:


> Well, the big brown truck dropped off a big azz box this afternoon..
> 
> Here's the first pics of a Boris up close and personal..
> 
> ...


Thanks for the confirmation pics.
I know I paid for this, but now really feel like I am getting away with something.
I have a pair of huskers and tubes ready to mount, everything else looks like money.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks man! Stoked to get mine Friday!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


----------



## 2Tall2Bike (May 20, 2009)

*I agree, awesome pix*



Rcksqrl said:


> Thanks man! Stoked to get mine Friday!
> 
> Sent from magic wish granting phone


You rock man, awesome pictures. Nice to see it, been a long wait since December when I ordered mine. Can't wait until Friday! My 21" is definitely going to look like a beast.

Is it bad to hope for an April snow in upstate NY?


----------



## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Hey CC-John one last question, those missions look different than what came on the Mrs. comp. These look to have the tubeless ready markings?
Do you have plans to swap tubes? just wondering if the tires are folding or wire bead.
Thanks again for the great detailed post!!!


----------



## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

So stoked after seeing the pics I felt the need to bling.
I have a sweet ano red raceface N/W 32t CR and Origin 8 black CR bolts on the way, so much for riding it as is ;0)


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## CC-John (Jun 2, 2012)

Glad to help guys!! I know we've all been chompin' at the bit to get our hands on these rascals, I ordered this one on November 20th..

The rear dropouts ARE sliders, the mounting bolts pass thru a 2" long slot in the frame.. The dropouts on mine are all the way forward and can be moved back a little more than 3/8"..

Here's a few pics after slappin' some color on it!! I need to get some longer chainring bolts to mount my blue bashring..




Hopefully tomorrow evening I can run thru all the adjustments and take it for a lap around the neighborhood..


----------



## CC-John (Jun 2, 2012)

Anthem1 said:


> Hey CC-John one last question, those missions look different than what came on the Mrs. comp. These look to have the tubeless ready markings?
> Do you have plans to swap tubes? just wondering if the tires are folding or wire bead.
> Thanks again for the great detailed post!!!


The tires are marked "sealant compatible" and are folding bead.. They're surprisingly supple for 72TPI tires..

The only thing I'm doing to the wheels is replacing the stock rim strips, I'm gonna ride the stock tires & tubes til they're worn out..


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## indigo_falconm40 (Jan 18, 2012)

Holy Moly!! That bike pops with black and blue theme u got going there.


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## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

I don't know anything about dropouts....does this mean the bike will set up as a single speed with no problems? I am really tempted to get a orange single speed in addition to my boris. how could I go wrong for $450?!



CC-John said:


> Glad to help guys!! I know we've all been chompin' at the bit to get our hands on these rascals, I ordered this one on November 20th..
> 
> The rear dropouts ARE sliders, the mounting bolts pass thru a 2" long slot in the frame.. The dropouts on mine are all the way forward and can be moved back a little more than 3/8"..
> Here's a few pics after slappin' some color on it!! I need to get some longer chainring bolts to mount my blue bashring..
> ...


----------



## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

donn12 said:


> I don't know anything about dropouts....does this mean the bike will set up as a single speed with no problems? I am really tempted to get a orange single speed in addition to my boris. how could I go wrong for $450?!


I don't have mine yet so I'm only speaking in theory but that's exactly what it means. The sliders should allow you to adjust the tension of the chain without using an alternative type tensioner. You'll need ss cog & spacers, likely a chainring and a 20 mintues or so to convert between geared and ss.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Anyone put Tommisea 4.7's on there Moto comp? Not even sure if they would fit? Curious because theres charity ride coming up in a few months that I'd like to ride. Would use fatty if I had faster rolling tires. Vee speedsters pretty pricey still.


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## jdub21 (Jan 8, 2010)

indigo_falconm40 said:


> Holy Moly!! That bike pops with black and blue theme u got going there.


sweet color bling! how tough was it to do the rim strip swap (aka get the tire off, swap rim strips and get tire back on)? my teammate and i ordered two boris and get them tomorrow and i want to get mine looking a little different if i can, but don't want to get into an all-nighter just to add some color. thanks for the pics man. super stoked for tomorrow now that there is actual visual proof these bikes are ALIVE!!!!


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

In the images above why does the Boris's front rim look like one of the holes in the rims looks to be missing ( maybe they forgot to drill it)?


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

It's across from the tube valve. (Presta/schar der can't recall) so un drilled both sides for balance


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Ok, thanks. I've never noticed that before for some reason.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

The undrilled area is probably where the seam is as well.


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## Surly Gentleman (Aug 9, 2010)

I just got off the phone with Bikes Direct and I must say, I'm pretty impressed! I was late on my order for a Boris X9 and missed the boat... they offered to put me on a wait list if there were any bikes left when the orders had been fulfilled and this morning I got the call! My name was first on the list [apparently!], there are a number of Borises [Bori?!] left over and ready to be sold...

Unfortunately, I'm going to do something else with the money I had put aside but if anyone else who missed the initial order wants to see if they can get lucky, there's definitely "quite a few" at the warehouse. Good luck!


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## AHR (Mar 26, 2014)

Hey, everybody. New member. I figured my first post should be here, since I originally came to this forum to research fatbikes, which resulted in me ordering a large Boris X9 -- my first fat bike, and it arrives tomorrow!

I'm relieved to see that the photos submitted by CC-John show that it is by all accounts a KHS clone. I really wanted a bike with sliding dropouts for future singlespeed potential, and the front fork mounts are an added bonus. This bike just looks like its going to deliver massive bang-for-the-buck.


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

CC-John, props on the blue Transit seat post bag too... I've got one of those on every one of my bikes. Love them. 

Thats a NICE looking Boris!


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

Pool Boy said:


> I just got off the phone with Bikes Direct and I must say, I'm pretty impressed! I was late on my order for a Boris X9 and missed the boat... they offered to put me on a wait list if there were any bikes left when the orders had been fulfilled and this morning I got the call! My name was first on the list [apparently!], there are a number of Borises [Bori?!] left over and ready to be sold...
> 
> Unfortunately, I'm going to do something else with the money I had put aside but if anyone else who missed the initial order wants to see if they can get lucky, there's definitely "quite a few" at the warehouse. Good luck!


This is absolutely true! I've also got to give Bikes Direct two thumbs up for customer service.

Over email, I just "exchanged" my SE [email protected] pre-order for the Boris in 19" from their "over shipment" its expected to ship tomorrow and my SE shipping memo has already been voided.

If you want a Boris I'd fire off an email or give BD a call, their happy to help if they can.


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## jomobco (Jan 1, 2014)

Anthem1 said:


> YESSSSSS!!!!!!! going to check mine


My man in Brown didn't let me down! Boris arrived today!


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

Can we get an overall weight and some component weights for the Moto Boris?


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Overall weight I'm curious of as well but just a curiosity.... Been debating if ill want to look into deeper gearing it my fatness. (Personal fatness, not the bike!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## jjcarr (Mar 17, 2004)

*Got mine*

Went cheap as I didn't know if I'd like riding a fat bike or not. She's a heavy pig, but given the price I can't complain. Will be swapping out some parts. Only issue I had is that one of the crank pinch bolts was too tight, might have issues removing it.









First ride, she's a hoot. Frame construction is good, parts are cheap. I'll be upgrading the wheelset first.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

jjcarr said:


> Went cheap as I didn't know if I'd like riding a fat bike or not. She's a heavy pig, but given the price I can't complain. Will be swapping out some parts. Only issue I had is that one of the crank pinch bolts was too tight, might have issues removing it.
> 
> View attachment 880291
> 
> ...


I had the same issue, try backing off each bolt slowly and evenly sharing the tension until loose.
Worked for me, good luck.


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Rcksqrl said:


> Overall weight I'm curious of as well but just a curiosity.... Been debating if ill want to look into deeper gearing it my fatness. (Personal fatness, not the bike!
> 
> Sent from magic wish granting phone


I'd like to know the Boris weight too.

At one online store the listed weight of the KHS fat bike was 33 and 1/2 pounds.


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## metc1537 (Jun 30, 2010)

Nail Every Trail said:


> I'd like to know the Boris weight too.
> 
> At one online store the listed weight of the KHS fat bike was 33 and 1/2 pounds.


I'm curious too, I'll find out tomorrow, but the UPS shipping weight (no pedals, +packaging) was 30 lbs on my Large frame. Maybe it's only an estimate but if so, I would assume it would have to be an overestimate for UPS to price their rate appropriately.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Nail Every Trail said:


> I'd like to know the Boris weight too.
> 
> At one online store the listed weight of the KHS fat bike was 33 and 1/2 pounds.


I guess we can call it 33.15 for a Large.
We just recevied our 2014 KHS 4 Season 3000 Fat Bikes......


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

sorry to be a ball buster here. 33lbs 15oz is actually 1 less oz from 34lbs. not 33.15lbs.


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## trojan9x (Dec 5, 2005)

New Boris X5's listed on the BikesDirect page now.

Check it out!

Save Up To 60% Off Fat Bikes and Fat Mountain Bicycles from bikesdirect.com FREE Ship 48 States


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## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)




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## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

25 lbs is without the front wheel, tire and brake. 

anyone have real bad brake rub on the front? mine will not free wheel without dragging


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks for weight!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## RocktonRider (Nov 30, 2010)

Any closeup photos of the hubs and rims yet? BD specs these as HL-80s, but KHS specifies "Double-wall drilled". Looks like DHL-80 stickers on CC-John's too.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Curious to hear reviews of the Boris' wheelset.

Let us know how if you can manage them tubeless, and how well tires are mounting.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

RocktonRider said:


> Any closeup photos of the hubs and rims yet? BD specs these as HL-80s, but KHS specifies "Double-wall drilled". Looks like DHL-80 stickers on CC-John's too.


100_1935_zps5b42690c.jpg Photo by CC-John | Photobucket

They appear to be single wall drilled HL-80.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

If any of you Boris owners are interested in going wider up front with a 100mm front Weinmann DHL-100 from an FB4 Elite, I'd do an even trade for an HL-80 off your Boris. 

I've become quite partial to these Vee Speedster 3.5"s for summer riding and the 100mm front rim is just too wide for them.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Try to re center the front wheel. Had the same problem with minel


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## Raidthefridgeguy (Apr 19, 2012)

Do we know yet if it there is room for a Bud and Lou?


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Front fork is 5" even and rear is about 5 1/4"



Raidthefridgeguy said:


> Do we know yet if it there is room for a Bud and Lou?


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## jdub21 (Jan 8, 2010)

Rcksqrl said:


> Thanks for weight!
> 
> Sent from magic wish granting phone


My buddy and I got ours today. For sure major brake rub in front. Had to add a spacer (hardware store washer) to force the brake side fork arm outward then all is good now. Did it to both bikes and made the brakes money.
I did get "bikes direct-ed" though with my shipment. My rear derailleur was way bent and I have a stripped / half inserted screw on the fork on my bike. My friends was without issues however so I guesspoems I got the bumm ride of the two. I straightened the drop arm of the rear derailleur but can't get the screw on the front fork out no matter the to. Bikes direct will be getting an email in the morning for a new fork and I'll post what they respond with as it happens.
We did get a ride in and...with the minor problems included...the bike is sweet! So stoked I ordered and waited for the Boris over the fb models. It's an exact kHs 3000/9zero7 for half the price.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

puchcobra said:


> Do most hydrolic brakes use a cotter pin? Seems a little lazy and janky to me


most ive seen bolt/ pin is threaded/locktied on the caliper and with a cotter pin to ensure it doesnt come off just in case the pin backs off


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

Single wall it is-


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

CC-John said:


> The tires are marked "sealant compatible" and are folding bead.. They're surprisingly supple for 72TPI tires..
> 
> The only thing I'm doing to the wheels is replacing the stock rim strips, I'm gonna ride the stock tires & tubes til they're worn out..


My Boris came with a different version of the Mission... not nearly as good as this tire, I fear. No matter- I'm replacing them with 120 tpi Vee8s...


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

mikeymon1 said:


> My Boris came with a different version of the Mission... not nearly as good as this tire, I fear. No matter- I'm replacing them with 120 tpi Vee8s...


Mine didn't have all the bright colored lettering but looking closely I can see the 72 tpi and sealant compatible. None of the other stuff, not sure what it is anyway.

I didn't to ride mine yet, but appearance wise I'm overly impressed. The bike truly is identical to the KHS with the exception of the decals. I'm glad the Moto label is very subtle as compared to some of their bikes. Looks better than the over stickered KHS!


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

AdamJay said:


> Curious to hear reviews of the Boris' wheelset.
> 
> Let us know how if you can manage them tubeless, and how well tires are mounting.


They are indeed Weinmann single wall 80's.
The hubs, unlike the phantoms models ae cartridge bearing and look very solid.
This deal just keeps getting better.
I did not have an issue realigning the brake caliper, don't think you should ned to add any additional washers.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

This appears to be the front hub.
Origin8 OR8 Fat Bike Front Hub > Components > Wheel Goods > Hubs | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop


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## Joyota (Aug 27, 2013)

If anybody missed their chance to order one, the X9s are available for order again at BD!

Also, they just added the $599 Boris X5 to the site! 
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/fat-bikes-boris-x5-fatbikes.htm


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## trojan9x (Dec 5, 2005)

I posted pictures and links to the X5 on the previous page here.



Joyota said:


> If anybody missed their chance to order one, the X9s are available for order again at BD!
> 
> Also, they just added the $599 Boris X5 to the site!
> Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Boris X9 SRAM


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## JMiL954 (Nov 6, 2012)

Got mine yesterday! got caught in the rain but couldn't help but take it out for its maiden voyage!


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

CC-John, looks excellent! Bikes Direct should be paying you for press! Ride it past my house, I am in Houston, too!

BD just posted that a Boris X5 is available for $599. One thing noted was it does NOT have all the mountings on the fork. Lesser components, but I do like that frame style.


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

That Boris for $599 is tempting. I like the blue frame. But noticed the forks look like they did not have the extra mountings. 
I have a FB4 comp on order, and I was planning on swapping out a lot of the components off that bike. I have a bunch of new x9 9 speed stuff and BB7's, pedals, seat, seatpost, stem etc. 
I wonder if I might be better off with the cheaper Boris frame?

Is there a benefit to the single wall rims vs the double of the Fantom? In general does the cheaper $599 Boris x5 have a better wheelset/hubs than the Fantom Comp?

The Fantom Comp at $699 and this new Boris at $599 makes for an interesting choice.
I'm not sure which way to go yet. I was decided on the Fantom, but I am intrigued by the Boris- I like the lines of the Boris better.


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## metc1537 (Jun 30, 2010)

JMiL954 said:


> Got mine yesterday! got caught in the rain but couldn't help but take it out for its maiden voyage!


Thanks for the pictures! Mine beat me home today so needless to say its going to be a long day at work. How did it feel? Got any further plans?


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## jjcarr (Mar 17, 2004)

FYI, while others may have success, on my FB4, it's pretty much impossible to go tubeless with the rims/tires included. The profile of the rim combined with the fit of the tire made me unable to get the bead to set. Given the price of the bike, this is hardly a real issue. Given the weight of the wheel/tire combo I plan to replace them asap, but for the price I can't complain and I'm very happy with the bike.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I had my FB4 set up split tube tubeless front and back. The front tire was pretty easy to do and I had no problems with it. The back was problematic - mostly with burping air as the tire got pushed in in technical terrain, but after putting some weather stripping in to keep the bead out close to the edge of the rim it was fine. 

It took a little patience and an air compressor to make it work, but it wasn't that bad.


----------



## jjcarr (Mar 17, 2004)

Did you use a 4" tube or a 2" tube for the split tube setup? I tried a little with a 2" tube and couldn't get it to seal.


----------



## JMiL954 (Nov 6, 2012)

metc1537 said:


> Thanks for the pictures! Mine beat me home today so needless to say its going to be a long day at work. How did it feel? Got any further plans?


This is the first time I've ridden a fat bike so I have nothing but my F.S. 29er to compare it to. The little bit I rode it, it surprised me how fast it rolled down the road, it did a ton better on the sand bar and in the mud than my 29er could ever dream of. As far as other plans I ordered some on one floaters after that just ride it until I find something else to upgrade.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

jjcarr said:


> Did you use a 4" tube or a 2" tube for the split tube setup? I tried a little with a 2" tube and couldn't get it to seal.


I used a 24"x2.4" tube. Put some Stans or soapy water around the tire beads, it helps seal to get the air started and also lubricates it so the tire can move out to the edge of the rim. I think on the back I had to put a strap around the tire to push it down a bit, made it easier to get the seal going too.


----------



## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Another question for Motobecane fat bike owners.

1) It looks like you can fit tires up to 4.7 on both the front and rear of the Boris models, correct? I read a few posts saying people have fit the Vee Snowshoe on both front and rear of the KHS 4 Seasons fatty, so I'm hoping they fit the Moto version.

2)  It appears that you can only fit the 4.7 on the front of the FB4 models only, the 4.7 tires are too big for the back. 

3) Seeing as I will probably ride this in the snow primarily, is this an issue? Or will the standard 4.0 size be plenty and not to worry about it? 

It seems like the industry is trending to these much bigger tire sizes now ( from what I've read). I've just been learning about fat bikes over the last few weeks when I decided it might be fun to own one. Thanks for your feedback everyone, your advice has been useful.


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

donn12 said:


> 25 lbs is without the front wheel, tire and brake.
> 
> anyone have real bad brake rub on the front? mine will not free wheel without dragging


I had trouble setting up the brakes. It helps to remember that the outboard pad is the only one that moves... it's probably the inner pad rubbing. The brake "floats" on the two allen head bolts that attach the brake body to the mount. When you get the brake centered correctly on the disc, you can get the rubbing to go away. It's tricky... and if you already know all of this and are still having trouble, I apologize for stating the obvious! I had more trouble with the rear than the front.


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

Oh, and for those curious about weight... my large with redline pedals, a carbon seatpost, and Ritchey stem and riser bar came to just over 36 lbs. That's with the very unscientific weigh me then weigh me AND the bike, but it is a digital scale, so-
I sure would like to get that down a few lbs....


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

Anthem1 said:


> I did not have an issue realigning the brake caliper, don't think you should ned to add any additional washers.


I have to agree with this... it's hard to believe that the frame or the rotor are so out of line that the "Float" available in the caliper mount can't compensate... but it is tricky to get it right! Getting to the inner pad adjuster through the spokes is tricky- my rear inner adjuster doesn't turn easily at all. Frankly, overall I'm very impressed with the tolerances and frame build.


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

Nail Every Trail said:


> 3) Seeing as I will probably ride this in the snow primarily, is this an issue? Or will the standard 4.0 size be plenty and not to worry about it?


There will always be bigger, better, wider. Four is such a huge advantage over what I had before (and I've ridden in fresh snow both days I've been on the bike) that I think it's going to plenty for me.


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## CC-John (Jun 2, 2012)

Hey guys, sorry about coming back to the party late but work was kicking my azz this week..

Finally had a chance to dial everything in and take it for a blast along the drainage ditch behind the house.. I was running 8PSI in the front and 10 in the rear, at those pressures it seemed to handle just fine.. There was just a hint of self-steer on the pavement in front of the house but that disappeared as soon as I hit the dirt trail along the ditch.. That clutched X9 rear derailler really keeps the chain slap to a minimum, I launched it off the curbs in front of the house a few times to see how it felt with a bit of air under the tires and had almost no chain slap on landing.. Had to cut the ride short due to a nasty line of thunderstorms rolling thru, but I'm still trying to get the stupid grin off my face!! :thumbsup:

Finally got the bashring installed.. The outer chainring has a pin pressed in the outboard side that interfered with the bashring, ended up taking a Dremel tool to the bashring and grinding a notch to clear the pin.. The pin & notch are hidden behind the crankarm so it's not noticible.. Also, the bashring sits on the crank spider a bit wonky since the spider isn't machined for a third chainring.. While it's reasonably parallel with the chainring, I know as some point my OCD is gonna take over and I'm gonna take a grinder to the outside of a couple of the spider arms to get rid of the slight "wobble" in the bashring..





drolic said:


> CC-John, props on the blue Transit seat post bag too... I've got one of those on every one of my bikes. Love them.
> 
> Thats a NICE looking Boris!


Thanks!! I have those Transit bags on every bike too, except I've got one of every color.. :thumbsup: I've got a silver one on my 29'er HT, plain black on my 29'er SS, and the GF had to have a red one on her Myka.. 



FoafInTX said:


> CC-John, looks excellent! Bikes Direct should be paying you for press! *Ride it past my house, I am in Houston, too!*
> <<snip>>


Thanks Foaf!! If your anywhere near the Meyerland area, I'm game for a ride by!! :thumbsup:



mikeymon1 said:


> I had trouble setting up the brakes. It helps to remember that the outboard pad is the only one that moves... it's probably the inner pad rubbing. The brake "floats" on the two allen head bolts that attach the brake body to the mount. When you get the brake centered correctly on the disc, you can get the rubbing to go away. It's tricky... and if you already know all of this and are still having trouble, I apologize for stating the obvious! *I had more trouble with the rear than the front*.


Ditto here!! The front brake setup went off without a hitch.. The rear brake, not so much.. Had some real heavy rub on the inboard pad, even with both pad adjusters backed all the way out and the caliper shoved as far inward as it would go.. After studying the situation, shimming the rotor wasn't gonna cut it, I ended up shimming between the caliper mount and the dropout.. A pair of 1/8" thick washers from a set of old V-brake pads did the trick and got me enough "racin' clearance" to be able to center the caliper and setup the brake.. One mounting bolt had to have an extra thin washer to get the caliper mount parallel to the rotor.. I'm thinking the tolerances on the rear dropout may be a bit off..


</snip>


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

CC- Did you need longer chainring bolts for the bash guard? Have the same one enroute and don't know if I need to find longer bolts... If so how long? 
Also, what skewers do you have there?

Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## CC-John (Jun 2, 2012)

Rcksqrl said:


> CC- Did you need longer chainring bolts for the bash guard? Have the same one enroute and don't know if I need to find longer bolts... If so how long?
> Also, what skewers do you have there?
> 
> Sent from magic wish granting phone


Yeah, it took a slightly longer set of chainring screws.. I had a set from an old triple ring crankset in my spare hardware box.. IIRC, they were about 3mm longer than the ones that came with the bike..

The skewers are a set of Hope Fatsno's I picked up from Universal Cycles, along with the Hope headset spacers and seatpost clamp..

Universal Cycles -- Hope Fatsno Stainless Quick Release Skewers


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Thx for the info!!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Anthem1 said:


> This appears to be the front hub.
> Origin8 OR8 Fat Bike Front Hub > Components > Wheel Goods > Hubs | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop


Nice, I ordered one earlier this week to build up my Or8 80mm rims.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

I got my new BBG bashguard installed. Removed the large ring. I really like it. I'm glad I can go over large logs without worrying about my chain rings.

Also my new WTB saddle arrived in the mail today. That's installed too. Very comfortable seat. 

Going to take it for a spin in a minute here. I'm sort of bummed all the snow is gone for only one reason, it's fat bike heaven. Biking through the woods in snow is the bomb. I only bought this for snow riding so it won't get much use until next winter.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Ready to shred
Race face 32T N/W CR $34 makes for a pretty sweet bang for the $ upgrade.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

The Mrs. Whip.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

Is this frame 15 inch?


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## Mr. D (Jun 1, 2008)

joe mountain sweet looking bash guard


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

akacoke said:


> Is this frame 15 inch?


The Comp is a 15" the Boris is a 17"


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Here is a pic of the vertical clearance AJ.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Due to the offset rear build, the rack is not centered over the tire.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

In the wild.


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## 2Tall2Bike (May 20, 2009)

*Boris is awesome. I had front brake alignment issues though.*

Got my monster 21" Boris built up on Saturday. Very nice bike. It is truly a clone of KHS at my LBS for half the price.

I could not get rub to stop on front brake either. Retracting pad all the way and pushing caliper all the way over still had some rub (i have bb7 on 3 other bikes so am very familiar with them). I had to put a thin SS washer on axel to "push" fork over. Then all was good. Mount on fork does not look bent but seems there is some assembly variation reading all the posts. I plan to look closer and may mill down the mount the thickness of the washer and be done with it.

Quick ride this weekend and bike is great. I have 2 riding buds who got FB4s and I am definitely glad I got the Boris (even though we had to wait). Anyone out there trying to decide, go with the Boris!

Next is putting on red Jagwire cable housing.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Extremely pleased with the Boris. Had very close tolerances with the front brake, but settled in nicely. Nice finishing touches. Will ride with Floaters and Larry and 188 gram tubes till I get back to Tacoma (in Big Sky for the Winter), and then probably drill out the wheels a bit more.

Beautiful bike. I wish they made it in a 13" for my wife. Might have to go with a Baby-Fat.

Did I say beautiful bike? This is the absolute best deal out there.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

2Tall2Bike said:


> Got my monster 21" Boris built up on Saturday. Very nice bike. It is truly a clone of KHS at my LBS for half the price.
> 
> I could not get rub to stop on front brake either. Retracting pad all the way and pushing caliper all the way over still had some rub (i have bb7 on 3 other bikes so am very familiar with them). I had to put a thin SS washer on axel to "push" fork over. Then all was good. Mount on fork does not look bent but seems there is some assembly variation reading all the posts. I plan to look closer and may mill down the mount the thickness of the washer and be done with it.
> 
> ...


I have to admit, I have front triangle envy. 
I can squeeze 2 bottles in on my 17", but the one on the seat tube can only go 20oz.
Looks like you got room for a pair of 24's with room to spare.


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

Anthem, I saw your two bottle cages and almost asked if a 24 would fit in the rear H2O boss.

I'll test the 19" when I get mine TODAY!


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

I got in about 30 miles on mine yesterday on some twisty FLA single track.
I learned a lot about fat tires and pressure yesterday, I kept letting air out until I lost the harshness in the ride.
The big wheels roll a lot better than I expected, they obviously don't spin up as fast as my 29er but with the added contact patch I found myself using very little if any braking into corners so there was less acceleration needed coming out of turns.
The bike just feels right balance wise, and even felt flickable if you can apply that term to monster tires.
There is a lot of brown ice on the trails right now (fallen leaf) with the sweet spot being a narrow ribbon of dirt/sand on the outside of turns, I was able to deliver the tires to this hero dirt and rail it there thru out the day, very confidence inspiring.
I know these bikes were originally intended for adverse conditions, and my original intention was a beach bike, but I see myself riding a lot of single track on this new bike.
I also rode platforms on the bike for the first time in a decade.
During the first 10 minutes if someone offered me a set of xpds I would have been all over the offer. ( It didnt help that the vanns shoes I chose to wear that day were as slick as ice) but as I dialed in the tire pressure, things started to fall into place and I see me keeping the flats on this bike( with some new shoes).


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## 2Tall2Bike (May 20, 2009)

*lots of room for water bottles on 21"*



Anthem1 said:


> I have to admit, I have front triangle envy.
> I can squeeze 2 bottles in on my 17", but the one on the seat tube can only go 20oz.
> Looks like you got room for a pair of 24's with room to spare.


Yep on 21" frame no issues at all with 2 24oz bottles. :thumbsup:


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## Daggar (Mar 31, 2014)

*Boris X9 ad*

Boris x9 size med for sale on Craigslist Rochester NY. Can't wait to get mine tomorrow!


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## trojan9x (Dec 5, 2005)

scrapula said:


> Boris x9 size med for sale on Craigslist Rochester NY. Can't wait to get mine tomorrow!


Nevermind, I found it. Guy is asking 400 more than they are selling them for on the site...


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## jjcarr (Mar 17, 2004)

FYI, I just ordered a Maverick SC32 off eBay and will be installing it on my FB4. I was surprised to see that the stock fork does not use a tapered steer tube, so that's one less then I'll need for this conversion. I'll start a new thread with the details when I get it installed.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

The good and bad...
GOOD-
Got bike back today, (had LBS adjust everything as I wanted to start off adjusted correctly) jones bars installed, on-one floaters installed, changed rims strips and saddle.

BAD-
Right crank threads were munged up not allowing pedal to thread in correctly allowing the threads to strip... Grrrr. Realize may have been user error as I didn't run a tap
Theough it first.... So I can't take my Boris out I've impatiently waited for! Poop!

Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Good looking bikes. The only thing maybe in question on the Boris would be the hubs. The build looks durable.

Rcksqrl/ You can still run a tap and clean up the threads.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

the handlebar looks really hideous :cornut:


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

(Apologies in advance, this post turned into a novel)

Initial Impressions:
Got a late start due to missing the UPS man. Got it from UPS Will Call late, then got an even later start on the build. Finally all the initial build done. Still need to dial it in paying attention to shifting and brakes.

Only got to pedal it in the garage tonight, will take the initial test flight tomorrow. Will also test a 24 oz bottle on the rear H2O boss tomorrow. The missions also look different than ones posted here. The "Tubeless" is blacked out but readable, no fancy logo'ing with icons. See pic below.

I weighed a few things, will have to collect my notes and post separately. Nothing seemed excessively heavy.

The Good: 
This thing is a beast! I'm excited to get out there and make some tractor noises with those tires. The gloss black is kind of growing on me. Will be applying the first protective layer of dirt soon, will see how it looks after that.

Being a long time Shimano fan, I gotta say, the x9 stuff is looking good. I was happy with the rear derailleur clutch and little lock mechanism. All the other components were right in there too, with my quality expectations.

Mine came with some decent looking bolt on grips, I was expecting these foam tape on things. Or is that only on the FB4's?

I have one! I was on pre-order for the SE [email protected] So far I'm glad I was able to make the switch to get the Boris instead and get in in my hands earlier than expected. Things are starting to warm up here in AZ, riding season will be on hold soon.

The Bad: 
I might have gone too far with the 19", I was right in between sizes with my height and inseam. Will see how she handles and what I can dial in. That swoopy top tube is deceivingly close; I'm a little concerned what climbing is going to be like.

The thread cut on the crank pedal holes is just ugly. My pedals acted like a tap going in.

There is a decent dent in the frame, it's out of sight but enough that I'm going to ask BD what they can do for me. Looks like it was done pre paint job, it's a dent with a nice paint job. Will update here as to the results. There is also a minor paint run on the fork, around one of the braze ons. But its minor enough not to even mention.

Brake rub! Going to have to mess with it both front and rear some more. The front was easy enough to adjust using the CPS bolts on the BB7's. But I get a rub still when turning. I think it's a paint thickness issue, this mount point should be lapped, it isn't.

The rear brake was a nightmare to get working. My solution was to move the washers under the mount bots to the inside, between the bracket and rear chain stay. This bought me just enough clearance to allow the CPS bolts to adjust the pads and clear the rub. Can post pictures if needed.

It was said here before "these tires just fall off these rims", yea that's no joke. Going tubeless is going to be a challenge with this tire / wheel combo. It's likely to give burping issues. But, I may still give it a try with my preferred split tube method. 
_ Can anyone report tighter fit with something besides the missions? _

Whats Next : 
Ride it! I wanted to wait till I had it in hand before ordering any upgrades. Got to be honest, the BB7's are at the top of that list. Like that the [email protected] had hydraulics listed, even if they were bottom rung.

I'm also torn on what trim color to start going. Was impressed with the blue trim that was posted here. I might go with some white trim, get a storm trooper thing going. Maybe give those white On One Floaters a Try?

Also, that one rap song keeps running though my head when I look at it&#8230;
"Black and yellow, Black and yellow, Black and yellow &#8230;"
"It's the big boy, you know what I paid for it"
"No keys, push to start"

TL;DR? Here's some pics&#8230;

Logo side of the missions









Finished, finally.









My helper gladly chewed up all the cardboard shipping protection sleeves.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

If the front is rubbing when turning... Check the washers in the mount bolt. Mine needed to get pushed in a little because it would rub when turning right. 

As to the look if my handlebars I agree, not the prettiest things out there but man are they comfortable on my wrists! I wasn't sold on them until I rode a friends bike who had them. Different strokes for different folks!! Can't see going back from a jones bar to straight.


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Rcksqrl said:


> If the front is rubbing when turning... Check the washers in the mount bolt. Mine needed to get pushed in a little because it would rub when turning right.
> 
> As to the look if my handlebars I agree, not the prettiest things out there but man are they comfortable on my wrists! I wasn't sold on them until I rode a friends bike who had them. Different strokes for different folks!! Can't see going back from a jones bar to straight.
> 
> Sent from magic wish granting phone


I noticed the same thing on out of the saddle efforts, caliper/rotor were perfect and I was scratching my head wondering where the rub was coming from.
Then I noticed the close proximity of the lower caliper mounting hardware to the rotor.


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## dbauer (Jul 15, 2009)

The Boris X7 is on the BD sight now.$699


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

if your brakes are only rubbing in turns and corner regardless if its setup right or not, too bad my friend you are having too much flex in the qr axles/hub. i used to have that on every QR bike, im a light guy at 180 with gears and cloths. now i have all bolt thru hubs, none are my bikes ever rub on corners.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

the theory is , your caliper is always fixed on the frame, its not moving, period. your rotor is alway supposed to be parallel with the pads dont matter riding straight or corner. as you corner your bike will be at an angle , your wheels are loading not on the dead center, so your weight forces the wheel to want to move. the if the axle is flexing. or qr not tight/strong enough it will allow a lil bit of flex ,this will cause your hub shift, and rotor will be not parallel to the pads to rub. generally any qr with plastic bushing in it will flex, because they will never be tight enough . you can either back off the adjustments on the brake caliper or get a qr with brass bushing to see if it helps


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## trojan9x (Dec 5, 2005)

I'm liking this one..



dbauer said:


> The Boris X7 is on the BD sight now.$699


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## trojan9x (Dec 5, 2005)

X7


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

trojan9x said:


> X7
> 
> View attachment 881852


Me too Trojan, the Mrs. could use the extra stand over.
I think she just got an upgrade.
Sweet 15" green comp will be available aug 30thish


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

Can some one explain why I can't get a Boris x7 Lilac or Seafoam in a size 19 or 21?!?!

Maybe those sizes sold out already. 

Seriously though, if these were supposed to be girl bikes, maybe offer a size 13? My 5'2 wife isn't going to fit on a 15. Assuming a Boris frame could even be made that small.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

drolic said:


> Can some one explain why I can't get a Boris x7 Lilac or Seafoam in a size 19 or 21?!?!
> 
> Maybe those sizes sold out already.
> 
> Seriously though, if these were supposed to be girl bikes, maybe offer a size 13? My 5'2 wife isn't going to fit on a 15. Assuming a Boris frame could even be made that small.


I'm all in, 15" Lilac reserved.
The Mrs. is 5'2" also, got her on a comp with a 60mm stem and mary bars.
Would be nice if the TT were 1/2" shorter but it works.
Standover on the comp is tight yet she is good on my 17" boris, this 15" should be sweet for her.


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

A 24 oz bottle will fit. Just fit, in my 19".


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

Anthem1 said:


> I noticed the same thing on out of the saddle efforts, caliper/rotor were perfect and I was scratching my head wondering where the rub was coming from.
> Then I noticed the close proximity of the lower caliper mounting hardware to the rotor.


Thanks Anthem and RckSqrl. You nailed it.

The lower CPS bolt washers, the silver part of the post, was sticking out towards the rotor. Just enough to cause some rub under a flex.

Ready for dirt tomorrow now.


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## Daggar (Mar 31, 2014)

Rochester Boris is down to $1000 plus ship! Mine arrived yesterday! Finishing the build today and hitting the dirt! Thanks for teh brake info- one off mine needed tweaking! Other than that, she's perfect!


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## nathan59801 (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm going to order a Boris this week and was wondering if you would tell me your height and inseam. According to the website I need a 19", but that seems too small. I've always had 21" bikes. I just want to check with someone who bought a 19" and see how it fits. I'm 6'2" and 34" inseam with long arms. 
Thank you.


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

I'm 5'11" with a 32" inseam. Long arms, wide shoulders. Picture a gorilla, okay?

Initial impression is that the 19" Boris is a little big for me. But i have zero trail time with it. So, take my $ .02 cautiously. 

I actually would have ordered a 18" if it would have been available. 

That said, I'd expected to put on a shorty stem day one. But, with the very wide handle bars and their sweep. I think I'll keep the 90 mm stem it came with. I might play with a different offset however.


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

nathan59801 said:


> I'm going to order a Boris this week and was wondering if you would tell me your height and inseam. According to the website I need a 19", but that seems too small. I've always had 21" bikes. I just want to check with someone who bought a 19" and see how it fits. I'm 6'2" and 34" inseam with long arms.
> Thank you.


I'm right around the same height and inseam and long arms as you and the 21" fits great. The 19" would have been way too cramped even with a long seat post and stem. I would compare ett between the Boris and your current/past bikes to be sure but if you always had 21" bikes don't change that now.


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## nathan59801 (Feb 20, 2011)

Thank you for the info drolic and finny1999. 21" Boris it is. I may wait and see what the 2015 X9 is priced at.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Nail Every Trail said:


> It appears that you can only fit the 4.7 on the front of the FB4 models only, the 4.7 tires are too big for the back.


Can anyone confirm?

Espen stated on page 28 that BFL (a 4.7 tire) should fit fine both front and rear.
I would love to know what the rear tire limitations are on 80mm rims before I spring for fatter tread.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Don't know if this has shown up in this thread, but does anybody reckon whether this is the whispered about Motobecane 29+ bike as seen at the Tai Bike show:

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netd...Up-Taipei-Show-bikes-tires-fatbike-29+-24.jpg


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

drolic said:


> A 24 oz bottle will fit. Just fit, in my 19".


You may try a side mount bottle cage like this one so you can grab bottle out from side, $6.41: Amazon.com: Zefal Side Mount Bicycle Water Bottle Cage: Sports & Outdoors


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

Despite no love here for the Missions it seems like BD is selling pairs of them and something called a "Vee8" (obvious similarities to Kenda product).

PAIR of 120TPI Folding Bead Vee Rubber Fat Bike Tires


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

Boris X7s ship in late August. That is a long wait.


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## adf2112 (Jun 19, 2012)

Unpacked 2 Boris X9s last eve (15 & 17). Very impressed with quality of components compared to the Elite. Finish looks much better than pics on BD. Glossy! Bikes ride nice! solid. The small fits me better than the medium (im 5'8")

1) Tires that shipped were the FOLDING BEAD missions weighing-in at 1400g each. Much better that the wire bead missions that seem to have shipped with some Elite's and Comp's in the past. That is great news and saves approx 1 lb per tire off the bat.

2) Vee rubber snow shoes (4.7) we mounted with no issues on the front and rear. I was surprised that the snowshoes were barely any wider that the stock missions (if at all!). I was expecting a noticeable difference. The snowshoes we had weighed in at 1300g each. That being the case, the stock tires for the X9 are nearly as good as the snowshoes in my opinion and the $200 tire upgrade fund will be spent elsewhere.

3) Brake rubbing. Both frames have the same (widely reported) issue of the lower brake mounting/adjustment bolt rubbing on the caliper. Tweaking the pads seemed to help. A more permanent solution is to sand a mil off the outside of the ISO to post adapter (U-shape) that the caliper is mounted to. Disassemble and lay it flat on the work bench. Big sheet of sandpaper placed underneath. This would pull the bolts away from the rotor. Will try this soon.


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## grejji (Apr 25, 2010)

*Regarding Bash Guards for the Boris.*

The cranks that come in the Boris aren't designed for a 3rd ring which a bash guard would usually replace. So I'm not comfortable seating a bashguard onto this crankset.

So I wanted to look into a frame mounted bash guard, but that isn't possible because we don't have the ISCG tabs. Therefore, we have to look at "BB mount" bashguards of which there are many types.

There are 3x BB mount bashguards, 2x BB mount bash guards and single BB mount bashguards. Naturally, I wanted to 2x mount bash guard, but it turns out that it is not compatible with sram cranks. I have no clue why this is the case, and I don't know whether that means the SAMOX crank is also not compatible. So, for one of these BB mount bash guards, I see 3 options.

The single crank option is here This one will be tidy, but won't put the bash guard directly under the big ring.

The sram-compatible double crank alternative is here. I don't like this option because it seems to be a band-aid fix for an ISCG guard mounted to a pretend ISCG bracket that is finally attached to the BB. It should, however, put the guard under the big ring.

And finally, the sram-NOT-compatible, shimano compatible double crank is here This one looks the best, but I don't know if it is compatible with the SAMOX crank.

Does anyone know if this option 3 will work with the Boris's SAMOX 2X crank?


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Somebody earlier just cut notches into the bashguard for the pins off the chainring. That's what I'm going to be doing. Prefer the full guard instead of the bb guard as I want my leg protected when I slip off te pedal....


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## grejji (Apr 25, 2010)

That is a good point about leg protection. But I'm still not keen on letting the 4 bolts take all the load. Those bash guards are designed to let the spider arms take the load. But these 2x cranks don't have a machined step for the bashguard to seat and transfer load. That and it won't sit flat without a machined face.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

I haven't had an issue with the other two bash guards I've had on two past bikes bolts have held up fine, no troubles.


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

From BD's FB intergalactic regional HQ

Get excited, people!
2015 Boris X9 will start pre-book in about 10 days!
Delivery will be about August 20th. Colors will be Jet Black and Metallic Silver.
Boris CF XO and Boris FS XO should be in around September: Carbon fork version with XO and Front Suspension version with XO.
Motobecane is also talking about a 22speed XTR Boris (which will be the team level) for the winter.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

^ I just saw that too... CRAZY! They are really getting into it with a front suspension and XO build! Can't wait to see it... and what fork they use. Guessing the "fork with many names" will be most likely.

*PS... OOFTA... resize photos people... this page is crazy wide.*


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

BD is great!


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Curious as to pricing with suspension...


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## Raidthefridgeguy (Apr 19, 2012)

Well, Sea Otter is about 10 days away (April 10-13), and that seems to when many companies launch their new stuff. I suspect that the fork will be from a major manufacturer and that it is being kept under wraps until then. Though a major release pretty much kills the fork with no name, so if the manufacturer wants to continue to sell it, they will need to sell it to someone. Bikes Direct might be that someone. It is all good fun to speculate.


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## brweik (Sep 7, 2009)

I have Snowshoes front and rear on my FB4 comp with good clearance( 6mm) to the chain. The front measures 4.25" and the rear 4.00" wide.


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

Good news, test flight of my Boris was a success. After my 26er, it's like trading in your Civic for a F150. I got in 7 miles yesterday hit the hard pack along the railroad by my house.

This thing really gives you a feel for the trail. I was able to do a little climbing, other than needing more traction from the tires, it's very capable.

I've also set it up tubeless using split tube with a differnt kind of rim filler. Will be testing it out and report back. But it held up overnight and had no burping at 10 lbs while jumping curbs with it tonight.

Update : Bikes Direct showed great customer service with a appropriate refund for a dent on my down tube. Was a cosmetic issue only. Took one day turn around after sending my email.

I still have some component weights to record and post if anyone is interested.

Here it is in in the wild.


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## 2Tall2Bike (May 20, 2009)

finny1999 said:


> I'm right around the same height and inseam and long arms as you and the 21" fits great. The 19" would have been way too cramped even with a long seat post and stem. I would compare ett between the Boris and your current/past bikes to be sure but if you always had 21" bikes don't change that now.


Chiming in - I am 6'5" with 36 inseam and 36 sleeve (just a well balanced guy ). I got 21" and I just fit on it. Seat all the way back.


----------



## 2Tall2Bike (May 20, 2009)

boogman said:


> From BD's FB intergalactic regional HQ
> 
> Get excited, people!
> 2015 Boris X9 will start pre-book in about 10 days!
> ...


Any plan for a special deal for current Boris X9 owners for the carbon fork? I am wishing on my lucky penny.


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

drolic said:


> I've also set it up tubeless using split tube with a differnt kind of rim filler. Will be testing it out and report back.


Very anxious to hear what you did and how it turns out... my plan exactly. But the tires are so LOOSE on the rims-


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

drolic said:


> Thanks Anthem and RckSqrl. You nailed it.
> 
> The lower CPS bolt washers, the silver part of the post, was sticking out towards the rotor. Just enough to cause some rub under a flex.
> 
> Ready for dirt tomorrow now.


I took a flat file to the washes and took them down even with the caliper mount adapter, dead silent now.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Ordered a Lrg Boris Monday night , shipped Tues, received Fri. Not bad service. LOL. Planning on a few cockpit changes, overall looks very nice . Any issues w / the stock skewers? They don' t appear cheaply made.
Plus the bike has a proper head tube length which was a draw for me


Pedaling


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

rjedoaks said:


> Ordered a Lrg Boris Monday night , shipped Tues, received Fri. Not bad service. LOL. Planning on a few cockpit changes, overall looks very nice . Any issues w / the stock skewers? They don' t appear cheaply made.
> Plus the bike has a proper head tube length which was a draw for me
> 
> Pedaling


I have 3 rides on mine the 3rd being a severe duty single track beat down, the qr's have been solid as has the Boris.
So much bang for the $ here.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

3 rides on my Boris in the past 3 days. 21 miles of single track, no issues that I wouldn't expect on any other new bike. Getting used to it and actually climbing easier than I expected. Not really noticing the extra weight very much. (Could be due to my not real fast normal pace to start with!) other bike is a FS salsa el santo so much lower rolling resistance and squishy! Haven't noted any loss of down hill speed, only slight decrease in climbing speed and extra strain which was expected!
Picts from when done today and at a junction on the trail. 
Glad I waited for the Boris. Thinking this will be my year round bike!














Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Good to hear.
With the Hbar and swoopy down tube almost looks like a Space frame


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Whats the widest tire I can fit front and rear on my moto comp? Thanks guys.


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## Daggar (Mar 31, 2014)

I have had 3 solid rides on the Boris X9 since it arrived earlier in the week. It handles very well on every terrain I have ridden- technical single track, crushed stone dust, sidewalk, pavement and train tracks. I am very pleased with the stock kit on this bike. My setup is as follows: 1 x 10 drivetrain (dropped the front der, cable and shifter!), FSA cranks and BB from ebay, Race Face 34t front chainring, grip shift XO rolling thunder shifter, Croozer wide downtube fender to protect the paint, Azonic platforms (plats just feel right on a FB and allow me flexibility in footwear), stock bars cut down 1" and q-tubes. The Boris climbs very well and I will be using it as a 4-season bike. Stock folding tires are excellent as are the grips, seat etc. Very impressed with the SRAM 1030 drilled out cassette. I am 5'7" and the 15" frame is perfect. The BB7s are my first experience with mech discs and I am sold on them - no need for hydros. This bike is a steal at $900.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Glad you like the stock kit. LOL


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

mikeymon1 said:


> Very anxious to hear what you did and how it turns out... my plan exactly. But the tires are so LOOSE on the rims-


I created a new thread HERE to cover what I'm testing for my split tube setup.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

drolic said:


> I created a new thread HERE to cover what I'm testing for my split tube setup.


Nice write up, really had no intention of going tubeless.
till now.


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

Thanks. I think I get the concept. Not sold on the open cell material, especially if it compresses over time... but congrats on making it work and evidently work very well. Can you confirm that you lay the material from rim edge to edge, and not JUST along the edge?



drolic said:


> I created a new thread HERE to cover what I'm testing for my split tube setup.


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

Yep. Edge to edge. You can see the strip is about 3 inches wide in the pictures and 1 inch thick uncompressed.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Was out on the trails up in Big Sky yesterday with the Boris. Put on Larry's front and Floaters rear and down to 3 to 4 lbs. It's a mountain goat. I figured it would be good, but not this good. The only thing it didn't work on was slush and corn over 3 to 5". Powered up pretty steep snow, ice that wasn't glare, cat and snowmobile trails that were covered with 3 to 4" of new. Was surprised at how well it went through drainage ditches with no self-steer and just pretty much molded over anything it went through.

Most fun and least worry I've ever had on terrain on a bike. This is a very solid bike and well worth the money we paid for it, and from what I can tell, worth the $1800 that KHS has been getting for their 3000 4 season.


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## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

wrecognize said:


> Whats the widest tire I can fit front and rear on my moto comp? Thanks guys.


There have been several reports of Bud/Lou fitting in these, but it's pretty tight, and heavier riders have reported problems in the rear. Lots of extra room in the front, though. It really isn't a 5" class bike. It was designed for 4" tires. 
I was actually considering the opposite, and thinking about how small of fat tires I could work with for the summer, or maybe going with a 29er or 29+ setup. No point in putting regular 26" tires on, since I have a 26er hardtail already, and it is way lighter.


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## hykerwilson (Jan 19, 2014)

I run a bud or a lou. I actually run the pair, bud and lou on my Comp (orange). I do have Marge Lite rims which help out with the width in the back. they measure about 4.6.

I also run a 6 speed cassette with three of the cogs flipped and placed on the other side of the large (36t). this way I can run my 36/36. love it. just have to watch the shifting as my X9 does not allow the stop screws to stop the derailleur from over shifting.


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

jkbike said:


> I was actually considering the opposite, and thinking about how small of fat tires I could work with for the summer, or maybe going with a 29er or 29+ setup. No point in putting regular 26" tires on, since I have a 26er hardtail already, and it is way lighter.


It seems like 3.5" on the 80mm rim and 3.8" on the 100mm rim are going to be the minimums for solid handling.

I've been running 3.5" Origin8 Captiv-8er UL 60tpi in the rear on the 80mm rim, and a Larry 3.8" 27tpi up front on the 100mm rim. I like the Larry up front a lot. Rolls fast and handles quite well on the 100mm rim.

So, as I'm in the process of building a 2nd wheelset from 80mm Origin8 (Weinmann HL80) rims, I just switched over to running the 3.5" up front as well.
The front wheel build is now done, and with the same tubes, a sealed OR8 front hub, same SM-RT56 rotor and the Origin8 3.5" tire, the whole front wheel&tire is 1lb 14oz. lighter than the 100mm DHL100 w/ Larry 3.8". My Larry weighed the same as the 72tpi Mission, so same weight difference there too.

I love it with the pair of Captiv-8er ULs. It's nimble, fast, and still floats a bit. I'll save the stock double wall wheelset for my Nates on harder trail days and snow season. With my Topeak 29er Disc rear rack, and the two wheelsets I feel there aren't many places I can't go smiley with my Elite. The weather has been real warm and my touring bike hasn't even left the house yet. Other than using my cargo bike for groceries and errands (I am car-free), I feel like my Elite is fast becoming my first choice as my daily ride.



hykerwilson said:


> I run a bud or a lou. I actually run the pair, bud and lou on my Comp (orange). I do have Marge Lite rims which help out with the width in the back. they measure about 4.6.


I'm thinking Bud/front, Nate/rear for next winter.
Did you keep your stock wheelset?


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

BD just announced on FB:
Gravity Bullseye 29+ and 27.5+ starting at $499
and $199 symmetrical wheelset (170/135) w/ V8s and tubes premounted.

Hope they source rims with two sets of spoke holes so us FB4 owners can make easy conversion with 135mm rear hubs. But I'm guessing not likely.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

from my understanding, the $199 wheelset is not fat bike wide rims. its the fat bike hubs with 29" skinny rims and skinny tires to convert your fat bike into a city cruiser. so there definitely wont be " 2 sets of holes" since itd be skinny


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

akacoke said:


> from my understanding, the $199 wheelset is not fat bike wide rims. its the fat bike hubs with 29" skinny rims and skinny tires to convert your fat bike into a city cruiser. so there definitely wont be " 2 sets of holes" since itd be skinny


I'm going to disagree. The announcement states that the new 29er bike will take a 26x4 wheelset... the Vee8 mounted wheelset will be, I believe, 26x4, not a narrow rim wheelset. I WISH they would make a narrow rim set, ala the Minnesota bikes.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

mikeymon1 said:


> I'm going to disagree. The announcement states that the new 29er bike will take a 26x4 wheelset... the Vee8 mounted wheelset will be, I believe, 26x4, not a narrow rim wheelset. I WISH they would make a narrow rim set, ala the Minnesota bikes.


Right, it's a fatter wheelset. Probably 80mm? We'll see.

Seeing as how the Bullseye Deadeye and Monster have 50mm wide rims, I'm thinking that 50mm will probably be around the size for the 29+ and 26.5+ rims as well.

May as well just paste what the FB post says here,



> GRAVITY has announced a Bullseye 29!
> 
> A 29+ coming later this summer. This bike will be using the V-Rubber Trax Fatty 29x3.0. In addition, the Bullseye 29 will also be designed to take 26x4.0 Fat Bike wheelset.
> 
> ...


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

from the wording. its a set of wheels with vee8 rubber. that WILL go on any 135/170 fat bike. they DID NOT say its a FAT WHEELSET. Vee8 comes in many different sizes in 120tpi.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

why would they sell you a set of wheels and lose money ? they are selling 4" vee8s for $100. some fat bike rims would worth $50 ea. plus hubs and spokes. 

no where in the annoucement mentioned its a Fat bike wheelset. they say its a wheelset that will go on to fat bikes


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

True, but one must deduct from this...

"In addition, the Bullseye 29 will also be designed to take 26x4.0 Fat Bike wheelset." 
And then they go on to talk about another wheelset with a V8, a tire that happens to come in..... wait for it,



26x4.0


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

its pointless to argue now, lets see whos right when the wheelset comes out


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

AdamJay said:


> = a V8, a tire that happens to come in..... wait for it,
> 
> 26x4.0


again, vee8 has many sizes in 120tpi, no they DID not say its 4" vee8


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Another reason I doubt that it's a size down is 29er+ and 26"Fat will offer similar trail geometry with the fork. But yes, you're right we'll see. 

It's BD, I wouldn't be surprised if they just offer the 50mm wide "HJC P-50 "Gravity Deadeye/Bullseye wheelset in the $199 deal. Considering these are coming on bikes as cheap as $399. Still a fat bike wheelset, though


----------



## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Interesting about the wheelset. 
Just curious, what is the least expensive ( without being total crap) fat bike wheelset you can buy that comes pre- drilled?


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Nail Every Trail said:


> Interesting about the wheelset.
> Just curious, what is the least expensive ( without being total crap) fat bike wheelset you can buy that comes pre- drilled?


Depends on your definition of total crap.

You can get the 80mm Framed rims laced with Quando hubs for $280/set
Search The-House.com

Some would argue that the hubs are total crap, and someone would argue otherwise. Lots of positive reviews, though.


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Thanks, $280 is a decent price for fatty wheels. Everything I've seen has been pretty expensive.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

looks like the quando hubs comes on framed fat bikes are different than these ones , they appears to be cup and cone.

these are sealed bearing ones

Sunlite 26X4.0" DHL 80 Fat Bike Wheelset > Components > Wheel Goods > Mountain Bike Wheels | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop

i know its not drilled. its got skewers. they have a 100mm version with no skewers too.

i just bought a set of them from face book fat bike trader. im planning to drill it and do a review on the hubs when i get the wheels


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

AdamJay said:


> Another reason I doubt that it's a size down is 29er+ and 26"Fat will offer similar trail geometry with the fork. But yes, you're right we'll see.
> 
> It's BD, I wouldn't be surprised if they just offer the 50mm wide "HJC P-50 "Gravity Deadeye/Bullseye wheelset in the $199 deal. Considering these are coming on bikes as cheap as $399. Still a fat bike wheelset, though


yeah, if its fat wheelset, itd be the ones on the deadeye with crap hubs


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

akacoke said:


> looks like the quando hubs comes on framed fat bikes are different than these ones , they appears to be cup and cone.
> 
> these are sealed bearing ones
> 
> ...


Just to be Devil's Avocado,
XT hubs are also cup and cone. They come on $300 Surly wheels too.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

AdamJay said:


> Just to be Devil's Avocado,
> XT hubs are also cup and cone. They come on $300 Surly wheels too.


i personally think XT hubs, saint, XTR hubs or any cup and cone hubs are all crap. i had them all. i rather use $60 a set novatec hubs than saint or XTR,

cup and cone is not very serviceable once cup is worn. and they dont seal very good for dirt and water. that bearing preload thing on them is retarded even if you get it right and good at it. too tight kills it. too loose there is play.

its just me i dont have anything against people using cup and cone hubs its a choice, i just like at least 4 sealed bearings or needle bearing in my rear hub for superior dirt and water resistance.


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## PerraHunter (Nov 3, 2013)

AdamJay said:


> Depends on your definition of total crap.
> 
> You can get the 80mm Framed rims laced with Quando hubs for $280/set
> Search The-House.com
> ...


I have a Minn 2.0 with the quando hubs, and really don't know if they are crap or not. But I can tell you that I've had about ten or 12 rides, all wet, muddy, icy affairs.








(So much mud the chain was skipping)

I recently repacked the hubs, mostly on advice from guy's on the Minn facebook group. The hubs were performing fine; I did the work as a precaution. The hubs were fine inside.








(Clean bike after rinsing off in the river)

Now you need to understand my perspective; any hub that needs work more often than every decade is crap. My (original) Motobecane Grand Touring hasn't had hub work that I can remember, and my Phillips (which I got out of a dumpster) rode for about six years before I looked at the hubs. Both bikes are awesome.








(One of the cleaner places I ride tis spring)

Ps. Did you see the three pix I added to the daily fat pic thread?


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Do you think the new Bluto fork will work with either the Fantom FB4 or Boris?

I definitely like the idea of having at least front suspension on a fat bike. 

It is amazing how fast things are changing in the world of fat bikes. New tires, new frame styles, suspension, wheelsets etc.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

Nail Every Trail said:


> Do you think the new Bluto fork will work with either the Fantom FB4 or Boris?
> 
> I definitely like the idea of having at least front suspension on a fat bike.
> 
> It is amazing how fast things are changing in the world of fat bikes. New tires, new frame styles, suspension, wheelsets etc.


im hoping they make 1 1/8 and taper steerer. and axles will have at least QR and thru. im going to sea outer tomorrow to see if they have it there and take some photos for ya. its all over the news that they launched it today.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

PerraHunter said:


> View attachment 884198
> 
> (So much mud the chain was skipping)


looks like you have a plastic bag in the derailleur pulley/cage


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## Rylinkus (Apr 18, 2010)

How much better is the Boris X5 or X7 in comparison to the Gravity Bulleye Monster? The X5 & X7 don't ship until August, where as the Monster will ship mid June. I'm trying to determine if I should wait or not.


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## dbauer (Jul 15, 2009)

Rylinkus asked:

How much better is the Boris X5 or X7 in comparison to the Gravity Bulleye Monster? The X5 & X7 don't ship until August, where as the Monster will ship mid June. I'm trying to determine if I should wait or not. 

I would wait and go for the Boris. Components alone are worth it (wheels, drivetrain).

I purchased an FB4 Comp and love it. I am now waiting to see what else BD will come out with over the next several months. They have stated they will be coming out with other Fat Bikes also. I believe this will be worth the wait in the long run especially after seeing some of todays announcements on the web.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

*Just another Boris glamour shot*

Boris


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## PerraHunter (Nov 3, 2013)

akacoke said:


> looks like you have a plastic bag in the derailleur pulley/cage


No plastic bag, just mud and leaves.

Take everything you read here with a grain of salt (so-and-so components are crap). I could post a complaint that "my crappy Sram X5 derailleur doesn't shift", but would the derailleur really be at fault?

I can't speak to the old fashioned snow fat bikes, but the new generation of trail specific Fat Bikes (Minnesota, Boris etc.) are designed to to ride in conditions that skinny bikes don't dare go. Salt water sand beaches, river flood plains with toxic silt and industrial debris, etc.

The level of maintenance and the rate components wear out are going to be much higher than most other types of riding. Is this because the bike/components are crap, or because of where and how we ride?


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

PerraHunter said:


> No plastic bag, just mud and leaves.
> 
> Take everything you read here with a grain of salt (so-and-so components are crap). I could post a complaint that "my crappy Sram X5 derailleur doesn't shift", but would the derailleur really be at fault?
> 
> ...


I ride my SS in all the conditions you mentioned as the maintenance time/cost is much lower, full fenders help too.
If you can deal with the added weight/cost/complexity of internal gearing that may be a solution but until a fully sealed transmission is produced I feel this will be the Achilles heel of cycling in bad conditions whether you are on a Fatbike or skinny cross... that sport lives in the muck btw.

High end drivetrains wear out just as quickly as the mid level ones in my experience but SRAM upping the cable pull on it's 9 speed system was a godsend and I am glad Shimano copied it on it's 10 speed.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

> The level of maintenance and the rate components wear out are going to be much higher than most other types of riding. Is this because the bike/components are crap, or because of where and how we ride?


Great point!


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

rjedoaks said:


> Boris


Ahh, every little girl's dream.... a house with a white picket fence, and a man with a Boris...


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Will the Specialized Ground Control 4.6 tire fit on a Boris or Fantom Fat bike?

I got to ride a Specialized Fatboy the other day and I loved the tires. Huge! Unfortunately I could not compare those Specialized tires with any of the 4 inch fat bike tires because it was the only fat bike in the shop at the time. I'd love to see some images of the Ground Control as they compare to Floaters, Mission 8's, etc. 

I have a feeling that these are the size tires that many people would like on their fat bikes. I was planning on getting a FB4 Comp, but I really want to add some big ol' fat tires on it if I can. If I can't, I guess I need to move onto plan B and figure out a decent frame or bike to get.


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## trojan9x (Dec 5, 2005)

Not owning either, I'm going out on a limb and saying they will fit on the FB4 bikes as the Bud/Lou combo fits already. Unless the GCs are larger than the Bud/Lous.. that I'm not sure of.

As far as the Boris, I'm not sure on that one.



Nail Every Trail said:


> Will the Specialized Ground Control 4.6 tire fit on a Boris or Fantom Fat bike?
> 
> I got to ride a Specialized Fatboy the other day and I loved the tires. Huge! Unfortunately I could not compare those Specialized tires with any of the 4 inch fat bike tires because it was the only fat bike in the shop at the time. I'd love to see some images of the Ground Control as they compare to Floaters, Mission 8's, etc.
> 
> I have a feeling that these are the size tires that many people would like on their fat bikes. I was planning on getting a FB4 Comp, but I really want to add some big ol' fat tires on it if I can. If I can't, I guess I need to move onto plan B and figure out a decent frame or bike to get.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Boris should be just fine! I'm running on-one floaters with plenty of room to spare!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

On One Floaters are 4.0 tires, so they would not be a good analog for a Bud/Lou or GC.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

FYI,
Larry at BD informed me, when asked, that the hubs on the FB4 Elite are sealed cartridge bearing.

And looking at the Origin8 Fat Front hub that I purchased from Jenson for a 2nd wheelset build, these look to be non-badged Or8s.


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Rcksqrl said:


> Boris should be just fine! I'm running on-one floaters with plenty of room to spare!
> 
> Sent from magic wish granting phone


Yep, Floaters will fit the FB4 or Boris just fine. I am hoping the bigger tires like Specialized GC will fit. Still waiting to hear Espen's thoughts on the new Snowshoe XL and if that might fit those bikes.

Are you 100% happy with the 4.0 Floaters or would like to put some bigger tires on your bike?


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

Espen can't really comment on Boris clearance. He had design experience with the Moto FB line. As they are cloned from his line of MK2's

Boris is a KHS / 9zero7 clone. 

Well, he can still comment I guess.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I was 100% happy with the Floaters on dirt with my FB4. I was happy with them on snow until I rode the Ground Controls on the Fatboy, then I knew what I was missing.


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Jisch said:


> I was 100% happy with the Floaters on dirt with my FB4. I was happy with them on snow until I rode the Ground Controls on the Fatboy, then I knew what I was missing.


That's what I'm worried about. I'll use the fat bike almost primarily on snow, and maybe I'll ride it a handful of days on dirt. I have a Rip9 for dirt riding and a road bike too. I think the wider 4.6 tires would certainly be better for riding in Maine. I really was leaning towards getting a less expensive fat bike, but now I'm thinking I maybe should hold out and get a mid-range model that accepts wide tires. Damn, I hate being confused about bike stuff.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

When I was first looking at a fat bikes one of my friends said you can always put a narrower tire on a bike that can handle a fat tire, but you can't necessarily go the other way. I really like the wider tire, I just ordered some Floaters for my Fatboy for summer, I hope I'm not disappointed.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

There was a thread about the 4 seasons where they put a bud/Lou on.... I'll see if I can find it


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Sorry, bud up front and snowshoe rear. It's the khs 4 seasons are in thread. (Phone won't let me copy link in tapatalk 


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## trojan9x (Dec 5, 2005)

Looks like the SE [email protected] and [email protected] are shipping today.


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

rjedoaks said:


> Boris


That is just beautiful


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Just posted on the BikesDirect Facebook Page









MOTOBECANE NIGHT TRAIN FAT BIKE!

190mm rear; 150mm front; New Kenda Tire; custom Kinesis made frame, XT components, and Bluto Ready.
The price we think we can sell this at is insanely low considering quality and components; we are double checking with Motobecane before publishing.

Geo looks great:
Size, 15.5 17.5 19.0 21.0
Seat Tube Length, 394mm 445mm 483mm 533mm
Top Tube Length 576mm 603mm 625mm 650mm
Chainstay Length 455mm 455mm 455mm 455mm
Bottom Bracket Drop 60mm 60mm 60mm 60mm
Bottom Bracket Height 315mm 315mm 315mm 315mm
Head Tube Length 110mm 120mm 135mm 150mm
Head Tube Angle 70.5° 70.5° 70.5° 70.5°
Seat Tube Angle 73° 73° 73° 73°

We think the frame drawings indicate up to a 4.8" tire will fit.
We will check samples when they arrive next month.

Night Train will certainly be the pick of many cyclists who want the spec and quality of a $3000 Fat Bike for way way less money.


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

BD owns the fatbike market now!


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

im glad i waited , this is much better in everyway than mukluk


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

NightTrain looks pretty nice, wonder what the price point will be. I like orange bikes, and have an orange Fantom FB4 on order. I might like this better depending on the final price. I was going to upgrade the FB4 with some parts I have laying around and have a nice bike for $700.00 ( plus $150.00 for new tires) when all is said and done. I like the components and tire clearance on the NightTrain better though. Tough decisions with so many decent fatties coming out lately.


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## doc Zox (Sep 16, 2010)

beefy looking pepperoni fork


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

if its below $1000 its a deal for me


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

Looks like a nice light version of an ICT


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

ICT does have a 190 mm rear end as well. I'm curious if the Night Train will be symmetrical too. 

Night Train definitely isn't a ICT clone. There should be a bounty for the first to identify the cloned frame. 

I'm also thinking mullet jokes are in order, business in the front (150 mm) party in the back 190.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Oh nooooooos. My boris is obsolete.


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## dbauer (Jul 15, 2009)

Resembles the Rocky Mountain Blizzard?


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

This is the first thing that I thought of when I saw it. Nice bike


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

The Spec and MB are not the same.

As for price, this will be closer to $1500 to $2000 based on their listed spec when compared to their current line.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

kenda fat tires? i like the way this is going. still thinking i might jump on a gravity bullseye, looks like the best $500 i can spend right now.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> kenda fat tires? i like the way this is going. still thinking i might jump on a gravity bullseye, looks like the best $500 i can spend right now.


im on the same boat. its got potential for sure.


----------



## trojan9x (Dec 5, 2005)

Those Frames aren't that close. I swear I've seen this game before myself. I think it may have been on that alibaba site.



Bearhunter said:


> This is the first thing that I thought of when I saw it. Nice
> bike
> 
> View attachment 887523


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

You will find nearly all these bikes on alibaba if you look hard enough. It is a Chinese wholesale site. I haven't looked for this one! I think I've seen the Gravity bikes, the Boris and Nashbar's Big Ol' Fatbike.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

akacoke said:


> im on the same boat. its got potential for sure.


i put in an order for the green one late last night. paypal makes impulse buys way too easy. and i can always cancel the order if i change my mind between now and when they ship in june.


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## diamonddustdc (Apr 22, 2014)

*SE [email protected]*








First Fatbike after being without any mountain bike for over a year, and new to the forums. Love the photo threads. Im very pleased with the bike, but quite heavy id say. It did come with a bent rotor, but bikesdirect shipped a new one out same day with only an email. Rode some local trails today and it was a ton of fun. Cant wait to get back at it.


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

Looks great diamonddust. I've been waiting for the SE bike pics to be posted up. Welcome to the forum.


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## manfromwillow (Sep 15, 2012)

I have a custom made frame bag for a size large FB4. Will fit either of the three trim levels. Also fairly confident it will fit both SE models as well. All black two zippered openings. $110 shipped in the US


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

wow only $110?


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## manfromwillow (Sep 15, 2012)

Yep PM me for pictures as I am having a hard time uploading from phone.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> i put in an order for the green one late last night. paypal makes impulse buys way too easy. and i can always cancel the order if i change my mind between now and when they ship in june.


awesome, im just waiting on the new one to come out. to see how much. if its too expensive ill just buy the matt black bullseye and upgrade. hence i already got a set of 170/135 wheel. i just did a google search gravity alloy frames have 10yrs warranty . which is pretty good


----------



## low-pressure (Apr 4, 2014)




----------



## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Now they announce the Motobecane Sturgis









MOTOBECANE STURGIS FAT BIKE: 
This bike is right below the Night Train: 190mm rear; 150mm front; new Kenda Tire; custom Kinesis made frame; X9 and Hydro brakes; Bluto Ready. 
The frame quality will be unsurpassed by any Fat Bike on the market! We are triple checking with Motobecane and will announce when we know exact pre-book price and delivery.

...Geo looks great again:
Size 15.5 17.5 19.0 21.0 
Seat Tube Length, 394mm 445mm 483mm 533mm 
Top Tube Length 576mm 603mm 625mm 650mm 
Chainstay Length 455mm 455mm 455mm 455mm 
Bottom Bracket Drop 60mm 60mm 60mm 60mm 
Bottom Bracket Height 315mm 315mm 315mm 315mm 
Head Tube Length 110mm 120mm 135mm 150mm 
Head Tube Angle 70.5° 70.5° 70.5° 70.5° 
Seat Tube Angle 73° 73° 73° 73°

We think this bike can take up to a 4.8" tire; but we will check samples when they arrive next month. We will also take and post lots of detail pictures when we start pre-sales.

STRUGIS will be priced to get many Fat Bike buyers into a top on the line setup without breaking the bank. Since this bike is clearly equal to many alternatives in the $2000 range; we hope to be close to $1000


----------



## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Nice. Its good to see a pic of one of these with dirt on the tires. I'm not so patiently waiting for my FB4 Elite to ship, so seeing fresh pics is nice. the more I look a this bike, the more I like it. There's just something about the geometry on this thing that seems right, even over the Boris line - something to be said for clean lines. The preview of the Night train and Sturgis had me second guessing for a minute, but I'm not going to ever put a fork on a fat bike - the one thing I really liked about my Origin8 crawler was the rigid fork - it's really nice to stand on the pedals on a fully rigid bike. Besides, I have a Yeti for full speed squishiness anyway. Enjoy, I'm jealous.



low-pressure said:


>


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Anyone take their FB4 into 2x10 land?
I'm really wanting to go Shadow+ and thinking 2x10 with 22/36 up front would give me the range I desire for trail.
Man, the more I screw with this FB4 Elite, the more it looks like a Boris.


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

AdamJay said:


> Anyone take their FB4 into 2x10 land?
> I'm really wanting to go Shadow+ and thinking 2x10 with 22/36 up front would give me the range I desire for trail.
> Man, the more I screw with this FB4 Elite, the more it looks like a Boris.


are you series? IMO they are 2 totally looking bikes in frame design


----------



## low-pressure (Apr 4, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> Nice. Its good to see a pic of one of these with dirt on the tires. I'm not so patiently waiting for my FB4 Elite to ship, so seeing fresh pics is nice. the more I look a this bike, the more I like it. There's just something about the geometry on this thing that seems right, even over the Boris line - something to be said for clean lines. The preview of the Night train and Sturgis had me second guessing for a minute, but I'm not going to ever put a fork on a fat bike - the one thing I really liked about my Origin8 crawler was the rigid fork - it's really nice to stand on the pedals on a fully rigid bike. Besides, I have a Yeti for full speed squishiness anyway. Enjoy, I'm jealous.


Just like you I was second guessing about getting this. But after riding it yesterday for 12 miles and 23 miles today, I am very happy with my purchase. I was expecting the bike to be heavy on the pedal, but I wil say I am very amazed how well she rides. It's almost like riding a 29er full suspension with a not so good fork and ok shocks. I rarely stand on this bike not like my ht 29er. I am almost as fast on my first outing yesterday. So far so good! I will be replacing the rear derailleur with a Shimano slx I have laying around. I ordered a dropper post and q-tubes as I like carrying spare in my Camelbak. Other than that I will wait for parts to wear out then upgrade. I am still trying out the stem, I hope I will end up liking it this 2 weeks if not I might have to go 60mm.





If you look at the canopy at the back, that's Salsa doing a demo at the beginning of the trail. They kinda wished I wasn't there.


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

akacoke said:


> are you series? IMO they are 2 totally looking bikes in frame design


I'm Adam. Who is series?

I wasn't talking about the frame design. Is that something that can be screwed with?

I've built a second wheelset that resembles the Boris (effectively same rims, in fact), and am looking into 2x10 at 22/36, hence my comment.


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## GiantTrek (Jan 12, 2014)

What are these bikes weighing in at? Anybody strip one down and weigh the frame? Or individual part weights?

Thanks


----------



## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Go way back in the thread and they are there


Sent from magic wish granting phone


----------



## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

any idea what 3" tires are on the cheaper bullesye? i'm not familiar with any light(ish) knobbies that come in that size and they are super vague in the description.


----------



## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

AdamJay said:


> Anyone take their FB4 into 2x10 land?
> I'm really wanting to go Shadow+ and thinking 2x10 with 22/36 up front would give me the range I desire for trail.
> Man, the more I screw with this FB4 Elite, the more it looks like a Boris.


I have converted my FB4 to 2x10. I just removed the large chainring and put on a BBG bashgaurd, and removed a few links from the chain. Oh, and I adjusted the front derailleur limit. Works great, even with the stock Alivio rear derailleur.


----------



## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

GiantTrek said:


> What are these bikes weighing in at? Anybody strip one down and weigh the frame? Or individual part weights?
> 
> My Boris weighs 32 lbs 13oz. 15" Frameset. Tires changed to Larry Front, Floater Rear, Schalbe AV13F Tubes, Carbon Bars, Adjustable Riser Stem, 400mm Aluminum Seat Post, Grips, Lightweight Pedals.
> 
> ...


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I wonder how long until BD offers a FS fatty?


----------



## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Maybe this season. They have teased parts of a fully on their FB page. But I think it's actually going to be a 650b trail/all-mountain bike to cash in on the other big trend of last year.

I won't be surprised to see one for the 2016 riding season (arriving later 2015). They seem very interested in expanding their reach based on their early success and sales.


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## RocktonRider (Nov 30, 2010)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> any idea what 3" tires are on the cheaper bullesye? i'm not familiar with any light(ish) knobbies that come in that size and they are super vague in the description.


Duro Razorbacks. Not really lightish at 1650 grams each (published weight on Duro's site).


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## trojan9x (Dec 5, 2005)

BD listed two new 29+ bikes today as well. Under the Gravity brand.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bikesdirect/122199864367


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Am I correct in thinking that the Bluto sus fork will work fine with the FB4 (Elite)?

Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane 2014 Fantom FB4 Elite states the fork specs as "26" RIGID FORK, ALLOY STEM, 1-1/8" THREADLESS, ALLOY BLADE 34.9mmx2.0 T _*TAPER*_ 28mmx200L, W/O PIVOT, W/DISC MOUNT ONLY"

Of course I'll need a 150mm front hub, but it looks like Or8 has one through J&B that's about $80 and looks to be the 150mm version of the same sealed cartridge 135mm front hub that came stock on my FB4.

Thoughts?


----------



## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

The Bluto requires a tapered headtube.
Unless they come out w/ an 1 1/8 so everyone can play.


Pedaling


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

rjedoaks said:


> The Bluto requires a tapered headtube.
> Unless they come out w/ an 1 1/8 so everyone can play.
> 
> Pedaling


Thanks, I mistakenly thought the FB4 was tapered.

Well, that just saved me around $800-$900. phew!


----------



## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

RS may offer an 1 1/8th option. There are many frames out there. Also 1 1/8 can be used w/ a taper head w/ adaptor.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

ok thanks. I didnt know that they just slapped on some DH tires and called it a day.i guess the $50 upgrade to the missions is actually a good choice.


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> ok thanks. I didnt know that they just slapped on some DH tires and called it a day.i guess the $50 upgrade to the missions is actually a good choice.


Hell yeah, $50 you get different cranks with a bash guard. more expensive tires.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

akacoke said:


> Hell yeah, $50 you get different cranks with a bash guard. more expensive tires.


"Different", but better? Probably not. Take off the big ring on the Bullseye and you have a 2x8.

"More expensive" tires that most people don't keep on their bikes.
Sure the Missions are better than a Mongoose Beast tire, but that's $50 that the majority of people put into other tires. Only speaking from experience here.

I think the 3" DH tire is a great option to have on a bike where most people will invest in a different set of tires than the stock option. At least this way you've got wider options.

For $600 you could have the Bullseye with 4" On-One Floaters and 3" DH tires.


----------



## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Just got a note from BD that the Fantom FB4 fatties are delayed a bit right now, waiting on some parts to build them up I guess, like rubber/rims etc. Said May 30th now, so only a 2 week delay. We'll see. I'm getting anxious now though and have looked into some other fatty options. But the FB4 Comp for $695 is a pretty decent value for me, as I have some new parts I can swap on right away. Pretty hard to beat $695, but the cheap Boris might be an option too. The other option is a an On One Fatty build, but in the end I would end up spending a lot more than $695. I think Im just going to stick with the FB4, add some new components/parts over time and if I see a better frame option down the road in a few seasons then I'll switch stuff over.


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## nathan59801 (Feb 20, 2011)

BD posted the price of the 2015 Boris X9 at 799.95. What a deal!


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Wonder what's changing with the 2015 model..


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

It looks like the 2015 will be using the same frame as the X5/X7 which means no sliders and less or no brazeons. Other that that the specs look pretty much the same.



Rcksqrl said:


> Wonder what's changing with the 2015 model..
> 
> Sent from magic wish granting phone


----------



## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

120 TPI tires, 8" front rotor, Full SRAM drive-train, comes with pedals, added braze-ons on fork.


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## Wingo (Jul 7, 2007)

Is that a standard X9 RD instead of the clutch Type 2?

And a Speed V instead of the Volt.


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## RocktonRider (Nov 30, 2010)

Side-by-side screenshots of the "2015" and "2014":


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

RocktonRider said:


> Side-by-side screenshots of the "2015" and "2014":
> 
> View attachment 889218


Nice, with the SRAM X5 fat crank and shifter upgrade. What a steal at $799.

Give us an XTR shadow plus fatty, BD!!!


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## deematic (Dec 28, 2007)

Sub for later.


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

Hey Guys,

Can someone tell me the difference between the FB4 Comp and FB4 Elite? And how do
these compare with the Boris X7 that you've been talking about lately? 

I plan on using it to replace my Santa Cruz super light climbing Mission Peak.

Thanks,
Gary


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

There differences are in the components. Just print the lists and compare directly. Otherwise, the frame layout is the biggest design difference. The FB4 is 135mm offset and the Boris is 170mm symmetric. FB4 has alum fork, Boris steel. Boris is also available in a larger size if you need that.


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

GaryH said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Can someone tell me the difference between the FB4 Comp and FB4 Elite? And how do
> these compare with the Boris X7 that you've been talking about lately?
> ...


Comp/Elite frames are Diamant/Nakamura MK2 offset design (135mm front, 135mm offset 21.5mm rear).
Boris frames are KHS 4 Season design (135mm front, 170mm symmetrical rear).

Comp:
Acera level RD/Shifters on 9 speed drivetrain
Steel (Heavy) big ring on crank
Tektro Hydro Brakes
Cup/Cone bearing hubs
Generic alloy seatpost/stem/bars
double wall rims (a bit heavy)
Vee Mission Tires
Aluminum frame/fork

Elite:
Alivio level RD/Shifters on 9 speed drivetrain
Aluminium big ring
Shimano Hydro Brakes
Sealed Cartridge bearing hubs
FSA seatpost/stem/bars
-slightly lighter front wheel due to double drilling
double wall rims (still a bit heavy)
Vee Mission Tires
Aluminum frame/fork

Not sure about the hub bearings on the Boris X7, 
but the rims are lighter single wall drilled HL-80s, 
it uses SRAM shifters/mechs on 10 speed drivetrain, 
mechanical disc brakes, 
alu frame/steel fork 
marginally better Vee 8 tires (plan to invest at least $150 in different tires no matter which currently offered BD fat bike you get)

The Boris will be lighter, and far lighter in rotational weight.

The bike I wanted was spec'd between the Elite and the X9.
I wanted Shimano + Hydraulics, but lighter wheels. 
I'm an Elite owner since Feb, and ended up building a second wheelset that is nearly identical to the Boris X9 wheelset.
I would have gone with the Boris X9 (then $895) and swapped drive/brakes to shimano/hydro, but the Elite was available 5 weeks sooner and I couldn't wait until the end of winter.

In the end, I spent a little more but have a second wheelset that I can keep slick 3.5" tires mounted to for commuting and community rides.
However, if I were buying today and could afford to wait, the 2015 Boris X9 for $799 is by far the best mid-level fat bike deal to be had (if you're okay waiting until August). The wheels alone would cost $450-$500 to have built.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Chader09 said:


> There differences are in the components. Just print the lists and compare directly. Otherwise, the frame layout is the biggest design difference. The FB4 is 135mm offset and the Boris is 170mm symmetric. FB4 has alum fork, Boris steel. Boris is also available in a larger size if you need that.


I beleive the difference in the rims should be noted as well. 
That 100mm double wall DHL-100 up front is a beast. In hindsight, I wish I would have understood this prior to my purchase.

Sealed hubs on Elite/Pro over the Comp should be noted here as well. These things are not printed on the spec sheet.

These are good questions being asked, as the experience of owners will tell a bit more than the published lists.


----------



## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

BD stated in a recent phone call that all Boris wheelsets will be the same, so the X7 should be the same sealed cartridge bearings that came on my 2014 Boris.
I want to try the V8's that come on the X7, at least as a rear tire.
I would think the 2015 X9 would sport the v8 as well vs. the listed Missions.
As stated in a previous post, the 2015 X9 does not specify a type 2, which isnt a deal breaker if you plan to run the front derailleur, but would save you from buying a type 2 if you plan to 1 x 10 the drive train.
The Lasco double crankset that will come on the X7 is not bad,(same as the 2014 X9)It converts to a single ring nicely, I would put it on par with the sram x5 and so far these lasco/samox BB's are buttery smooth.
If the X7 had the BB7's it would'nt even be a contest imo.


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Anthem1 said:


> BD stated in a recent phone call that all Boris wheelsets will be the same, so the X7 should be the same sealed cartridge bearings that came on my 2014 Boris.


Great info, good to know!



> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anthem1 again.


Any clues on the hub specs on the Gravity fat bikes?


----------



## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

Hi AdamJay,
Thanks for the good info.
I'm not exactly sure what some of the terminology means such as:
135mm front, 135mm offset 21.5mm rear

I just want a good climbing fat bike with hydro disc brakes. I don't want to wait for the 
X9, but if it had hydro brakes perhaps I'll wait.

Maybe someone can give me an overview why you would prefer one frame layout vs
the other. What does 135mm offset vs 170mm symmetric mean?

Thanks and I know I'm a newbie at this .
Gary



AdamJay said:


> Comp/Elite frames are Diamant/Nakamura MK2 offset design (135mm front, 135mm offset 21.5mm rear).
> Boris frames are KHS 4 Season design (135mm front, 170mm symmetrical rear).
> 
> Comp:
> ...


----------



## Rylinkus (Apr 18, 2010)

GaryH said:


> Hi AdamJay,
> Thanks for the good info.
> I'm not exactly sure what some of the terminology means such as:
> 135mm front, 135mm offset 21.5mm rear
> ...


No idea on details of all the components compared to the X9. But this is currently available with hydraulic brakes.

Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - SE [email protected] Fat Bikes


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

GaryH said:


> Hi AdamJay,
> Thanks for the good info.
> I'm not exactly sure what some of the terminology means such as:
> 135mm front, 135mm offset 21.5mm rear
> ...


The front hub for all the current fat bikes offered at Bikes Direct are 135mm. Non-fat bikes generally use 100mm hubs.
Some newer fat bikes are going to 150mm front hubs. So when I say 135mm front symmetrical I am referring to the front hub and how it is laced to the rim (symmetrical).

Now, moving to the rear, the FB4 and SE bikes use a 135mm rear hub, the standard rear hub that has been used on mountain bikes for decades. But, due to the width of the tire, and the need for the chain to get from the chainrings to the rear cassette in a somewhat straight line, the wheels are laced offset, and therefore the rear triangle is an offset design. The 21.5mm I quoted is the distance of that offset. Frames like the Surly Pugsley use a 13.5mm rear offset.

Photo illustrations and more info (including advantages of each design) here: Fat-Bike 101 ? Frame Types | FAT-BIKE.COM

And yes, I think Hydro brakes are the way to go. They're a big reason I went with the FB4, but the rims really got in the way of the potential of this bike.

If I were starting all over, based on current available BD fat bikes, I'd get a Gravity Bullseye (non-Monster), add some 4" tires (no sense in getting the Monster if I don't want those Missions) and spec it out with XTshifters/XTRrd/XTchain/SRAMcassette, 2x10 Shadow Plus, and the same Shimano Hydraulic M395s that came on my FB4 Elite. This would run about $850 plus the cost of 4" tires. Far less than I have put into my Elite.


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

AdamJay said:


> If I were starting all over, based on current available BD fat bikes, I'd get a Gravity Bullseye (non-Monster), add some 4" tires (no sense in getting the Monster if I don't want those Missions) and spec it out with XTshifters/XTRrd/XTchain/SRAMcassette, 2x10 Shadow Plus, and the same Shimano Hydraulic M395s that came on my FB4 Elite. This would run about $850 plus the cost of 4" tires. Far less than I have put into my Elite.







check this out.

this person got a FB4 and parted it out. pretty good. but with a bullseye model bike not so much resalebale parts to get money.


----------



## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

AdamJay - thank you for taking the time out to answer my email. Again, this is good info and you basically answered my questions.

What is wrong with the riims on the FB4 (why is it limiting the potential of the bike)?

At this point, my preference is:

1. FB4 Elite
2. Boris X9 or X7 (if I can't wait)

I really want the hydro brakes since I'll be using it for hill climbs, but I like the look of
the black Boris! 
What do you think of the detailers that came with your FB4? My superlight has XTR
components so I'm thinking I may be disappointed with the non-XTR components, but
who knows, right?

Gary



AdamJay said:


> The front hub for all the current fat bikes offered at Bikes Direct are 135mm. Non-fat bikes generally use 100mm hubs.
> Some newer fat bikes are going to 150mm front hubs. So when I say 135mm front symmetrical I am referring to the front hub and how it is laced to the rim (symmetrical).
> 
> Now, moving to the rear, the FB4 and SE bikes use a 135mm rear hub, the standard rear hub that has been used on mountain bikes for decades. But, due to the width of the tire, and the need for the chain to get from the chainrings to the rear cassette in a somewhat straight line, the wheels are laced offset, and therefore the rear triangle is an offset design. The 21.5mm I quoted is the distance of that offset. Frames like the Surly Pugsley use a 13.5mm rear offset.
> ...


----------



## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

akacoke said:


> check this out.
> 
> this person got a FB4 and parted it out. pretty good. but with a bullseye model bike not so much resalebale parts to get money.


Thanks! I watched part 1 and 2. Good stuff!


----------



## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

Rylinkus said:


> No idea on details of all the components compared to the X9. But this is currently available with hydraulic brakes.
> 
> Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - SE [email protected] Fat Bikes


Great price! So many options! Thanks for the link.
Gary


----------



## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

AdamJay said:


> I beleive the difference in the rims should be noted as well.
> That 100mm double wall DHL-100 up front is a beast. In hindsight, I wish I would have understood this prior to my purchase.
> 
> Sealed hubs on Elite/Pro over the Comp should be noted here as well. These things are not printed on the spec sheet.
> ...


Lol.... i didn't read this clearly and you just answered the question in my previous post. double walled is limiting the potential of the Elite because of weight right? That's what I'm thinking what you're referring to.

Gary


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Kinda wondering the same thing about the wheels comment. I have a green comp and although it would be nice to shave off some weight I dont necessarily think its a game changer. At least not for me, Im 240 with no gear so not gonna make a world of difference. When I brought it to my LBS they were amazed how strong the wheels looked. Ive had expensive lightweight wheels before and snapped them in half so always been a little cautious about buying wheels based on weight.


----------



## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

wrecognize said:


> Kinda wondering the same thing about the wheels comment. I have a green comp and although it would be nice to shave off some weight I dont necessarily think its a game changer. At least not for me, Im 240 with no gear so not gonna make a world of difference. When I brought it to my LBS they were amazed how strong the wheels looked. Ive had expensive lightweight wheels before and snapped them in half so always been a little cautious about buying wheels based on weight.


I had been patiently waiting for my FB4 elite to ship, hoping this week, but got an email that they were delayed. I was going with the FB4 over the Boris because of frame geometry, but mostly because of the hydraulic brakes and I thought the FSA cockpit was better outfitted on the Elite. The rest of the components compared between the two was a bit of a wash for me, so I would've rather had the FB4 Elite now, that wait for the 2014 Boris X-9. I was concerned about wheel weight as well. However, once I saw the 2015 Borix X-9 listed and the new specs, at $100 less, I jumped the FB4 Elite ship as quickly as possible and decided to wait the extra months. After reading a few other posts about the FB4 and the spec'd wheels, the difference in wheels became a signfiicant factor in this decision.

I had an Origin8 crawler, outfitted with non drilled Weinmann HL80's, laced to Origin8 branded hubs. I drilled the rims and changed out the rim strip. Even with the heavy and crappy Origin8 DevistatR's, the difference was significant, and immediately noticeable - for the better. You get to know a rim well when you spend a day drilling 60 32mm holes in them. There is ALOT of metal in these rims, and even after drilling the holes, they seemed bomber, and to the best of my ability, couldn't get them to flex after remounting. They seemed totally solid for the few months I rode them this way, and I'm a clydesdale. The drilled HL80's spec'd on the Boris are real close in design to Rolling Daryls, just pinned, not welded, but with a rim this big and wide, probably not an issue. When I think about how much metal there is in the front double wall rims spec'd on the FB4 models, I cringe at what the rotational weight would be and can only imagine how much of a pig they are. Even with costly, lightweight tires, you'll only get that rotational weight down so far. My two cents.


----------



## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

All good points. I go back and forth myself, I've thought about getting a lighter wheelset which would prob save me a pound or two. Then I think how quickly that weight gets added back- water bottles,bags,fenders... At this point I cant justify the cost/ performance ratio.


----------



## adf2112 (Jun 19, 2012)

*Got BorisX9 instead of Elite*

I cancelled my Elite order a few weeks ago and got a Boris x9. I am very happy with my decision and love the Boris. Somehow, a buddy of mine got on a "waiting list" for the Boris in January and was able to purchase 2 of them when their big order came in a few weeks back. He offered to call them back for a third. I thought for 2 seconds and said: "do it!" Sure enough...they sent him a third Boris! BD refunded my Elite money to paypal in 5 minutes (literally)!

Weight: 29lbs.
Upgrades: Seat, Carbon post, Carbon bar, VeeSnowshoes, bolt-on skewers and seatpost clamp, carbon headset spacers, ergo grips, Avid Elixir 5 hydros. M540 spd pedals.
Mods: Silver Duck tape rim strips. Pulled all the rack bolts and single-speed hardware off, will not use them any time soon. (100g savings).

The only thing I wasn't crazy about was the steel fork (as apposed to the alu on the Elite)...but will probably upgrade to carbon at some point anyway.

10 speed sram drivetrain is amazing and the double cassette is my preference anyway. They also come with folding missions which are lighter than the wires on the Elite.

They are tons of fun to ride and I run 4-5psi in the snowshoes. I dont miss the full-suspension at all.

My other buddy has a "Pro" and it is also awesome. Despite their differences, ALL the BD models are sweet!! Get yours ASAP!


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

GaryH said:


> Lol.... i didn't read this clearly and you just answered the question in my previous post. double walled is limiting the potential of the Elite because of weight right? That's what I'm thinking what you're referring to.
> 
> Gary


Yes.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

wrecognize said:


> All good points. I go back and forth myself, I've thought about getting a lighter wheelset which would prob save me a pound or two. Then I think how quickly that weight gets added back- water bottles,bags,fenders... At this point I cant justify the cost/ performance ratio.


Rotating weight has a different effect on slowing you down than your panniers, or whether or not you took a dump before your ride. I'm not a big believer in things like carbon fiber headset spacers, but saving 2lbs+ in the wheelset made the bike much more fun on singletrack. Getting that front wheel up and over logs is much more fun now that it weighs considerably less.

Of course, it all depends on your application. Fenders + bags sounds much more like touring than singletrack. To each application has a specific solution. I am keeping my double wall rear wheel for commuting and winter applications.


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

Anyone with a Boris had any success going tubeless?


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## adf2112 (Jun 19, 2012)

Our group of Boris/Pro riders dont bother with tubeless. 
We have qTubes installed and are running happily at 5psi. We rarely encounter flats around here and changing tires is a breeze.

We carry a spare qTube just in case. 

Im sure there are a ton of other riders who will find a way to make tubeless happen - for us, the effort does not seem worth it.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

I received my Boris when I was skiing in Big Sky, and did not have access to a workshop/garage. I did replace the tubes with Schwalbe AV 13f which saved 550+ grams (190 grams and 187 grams on 13Fs).



Barheet said:


> Anyone with a Boris had any success going tubeless?


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

Barheet said:


> Anyone with a Boris had any success going tubeless?


Yup. Mine is ghetto tubeless.

I need to update that post actually. Got some more info on the filler I used.


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## TrailCrawler (Aug 24, 2013)

The latest from their Facebook page. I fear for my checking account with full suspension models comming up... :thumbsup:


"We have had lots of questions about fat bike details now through Fall!

It seems both Gravity and Motobecane are working on full suspension fat bikes.
Plus, Windsor appears to have three models in the works!

So, we expect that fat bike offerings will still be much lower in assortment than road bikes or standard mountain bikes.
Despite this, there will be lots of choices this summer and all throughout fall!

Here is what we know about about 27 models we will have for sure, with a brief note and estimated pricing based on current currency and freight rates:

MTB

DEADEYE (3.0 SS) $399
DEADEYE MONSTER (4.0 SS) $449
BULLSEYE (3.0 24S) $449
BULLSEYE MONSTER (4.0 170mm 16S) $499
BULLSEYE 29 (29x3.0) $499
BULLSEYE 27.5 (27.5x3.25) $499
KNOCKOUT (women's FB in 3 sizes and 6 colors) $499
Moto 29+ SS $399
Moto 29+ X5 20s $549
FB4 COMP (shimano triple) $699
FB4 EXPERT (SRAM double) $799
FB4 ELITE (shimano triple) $899
FB4 PRO (shimano triple) $999
FB4 TEAM (SRAM double) $1099
LURCH (hello pugs; I have 170mm & tapered HT) $899
LURCH FS (Bluto) $1199
BORIS X5 (hydro frame) $699
BORIS X7 (SRAM der & brakes) $699
BORIS X9 (proven ride) $799
BORIS THE BRUT (Bluto 190mm 4.7s) $1199
STURGIS (fatboy ride; super custom frame work) $899
STURGIS BULLET (Bluto) $1199
NIGHT TRAIN (big bother of sturgis ) $1099
NIGHT TRAIN BULLET ( Bluto) $1399

Cruiser style
SNAKE EYES $399 with nexus 3
MACAW FT $349 coaster
LONGBROAD FT $399 coaster
LONGBROAD FT3 $499 with nexus 3"


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## BigVaz (Feb 19, 2010)

If those prices don't change, they're going to be hard to beat. 

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Boris the brute will have my name on it.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

TrailCrawler said:


> LURCH (hello pugs; I have 170mm & tapered HT) $899
> LURCH FS (Bluto) $1199


Hmmm, perhaps LURCH is the chromoly steel fat bike they've been hinting at?


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## TrailCrawler (Aug 24, 2013)

AdamJay said:


> Hmmm, perhaps LURCH is the chromoly steel fat bike they've been hinting at?


Sounds like it, bluto compatible too! Looks like they got something for everybody.


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## bhc (Sep 27, 2005)

Unless you absolutely have your heart fixed on one specific model, it is doubtful they will all sell out and leave you waiting for months. And just when I thought I had it narrowed down to one choice, (Boris X9) they tease with all these new models coming out.


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## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

TrailCrawler said:


> It seems both Gravity and Motobecane are working on full suspension fat bikes.
> Plus, Windsor appears to have three models in the works!


LOL @ this.

Gravity, Motobecane, AND Windsor?! What will be the difference between them, the decals and color schemes?


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## metc1537 (Jun 30, 2010)

I wonder if the models listed with Bluto will just come with a suspension corrected fork/geometry, or if it will come with a genuine RockShox fork. Isnt the MSRP on those things like $670-$720?

If so, it would be wise for many fatbikers thinking of paying full MSRP for the fork alone just to buy one of these bikes, swap their existing fork over, and sell the BD bike. Right?


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

I was thinking the same thing. The Bluto comes on bikes that are 3 grand or more, not 1200.00. Going to be interesting. How could they possibly upgrade to a Bluto for 300.00


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## metc1537 (Jun 30, 2010)

rjedoaks said:


> I was thinking the same thing. The Bluto comes on bikes that are 3 grand or more, not 1200.00. Going to be interesting. How could they possibly upgrade to a Bluto for 300.00


Yeah, I dont know. Also, I remember hearing rumblings a while back that they were going to offer the suspension forks separately. If that is true, it would certainly have to be a proprietary model, not the Bluto. Otherwise, sign me up! I would drop that same $300-350 for a Bluto right now.


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## Raidthefridgeguy (Apr 19, 2012)

I can see that this thread is going to need to be broken up by model soon. It is cumbersome already. It is going to be tough for a LBS to compete at the low to mid-range. On the plus side, the great shops will embrace this and step up their game on service and be just fine.


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## BigVaz (Feb 19, 2010)

Raidthefridgeguy said:


> I can see that this thread is going to need to be broken up by model soon. It is cumbersome already..


This...

Kind of a pita to sift through all this info.

I was thinking of a boris x9 before fall, but I think I'm better off coughing up a few more pesos for something a little nicer.

I want the wider tires, just because...


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## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

rjedoaks said:


> I was thinking the same thing. The Bluto comes on bikes that are 3 grand or more, not 1200.00. Going to be interesting. How could they possibly upgrade to a Bluto for 300.00


Because when BD buys 1000 bluto forks, they don't pay MSRP, or even half of MSRP. They make their money by bulk buying components on the cheap from Shimano/SRAM and their frames from whoever, and then putting them all together for consumers. They make money by selling tons and tons of bikes, each at a reasonably small profit. Unlike a bike shop, they don't ever have to deal with you again unless there is a warranty issue (which they have been excellent to me with on two different bikes I have bought from them).


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## OfficerFriendly (Apr 16, 2014)

Cannot believe how cheap and awesome these fatbikes are, nothing even close to them in the uk!


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

So far there are 3 people considering a fatbike after 2 minutes in mine in a parking lot...


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Coloradoxj13 said:


> Because when BD buys 1000 bluto forks, they don't pay MSRP, or even half of MSRP. They make their money by bulk buying components on the cheap from Shimano/SRAM and their frames from whoever, and then putting them all together for consumers. They make money by selling tons and tons of bikes, each at a reasonably small profit. Unlike a bike shop, they don't ever have to deal with you again unless there is a warranty issue (which they have been excellent to me with on two different bikes I have bought from them).


These bikes are not being sold in the thousands. We're talking about a product that is not on the market yet.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

BigVaz said:


> This...
> 
> Kind of a pita to sift through all this info.
> 
> ...


With all these new options absolutely flooding the market, I think my decision to go with the Boris X9 is even more solidified. I think I'd rather stick with a solid, pre-Bluto platform for a few years and let all this manic Fatbike industry chaos settle out. Besides, by that time, my wife will have fallen in love with the Boris, and it'll be time for the next fatride in the stable. Additionally, the few reviews I've read where people have really driven the bluto hard don't think that much of it - almost everyone questioning why they undersized the stanctions and noted meh performance out of it.


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## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

Yes, I am aware. I was describing what BD does in general, and how they can afford to sell a fat bike for $x, and a fat bike with a Bluto for $x+300. BD does sell thousands of bikes, no, not thousands of fat bikes, but I'd be willing to bet it is in the 100's easily, and with 20 models...it gets to the thousands pretty quickly. I am amazed at how many Gravity/Motobecane/Windsor/Dawes bikes I see in my city.


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## jerrykr (May 1, 2014)

*FB4 Comp ship date delayed*

When I ordered my Comp, in March, the ship date was estimated to be May 1 - 15. Now I see May 30. I emailed them asking about my order. They replied May 30th. Delayed because of parts shortages (wheel parts were mentioned) due to popularity. Hope the container does not fall off the ship!


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

FYI, got my FB4 Elite down to 34lbs after new single wall 80mm wheelset (Or8 front hub, xt rear), xt rear mech, hg50 cassette, bbg drilled bash in place of 44t ring. Has a Charge Scoop saddle and Ergon grips, though. Running Larry/Endo for trail, with Surly tubes (I only use the qtubes for spares).

It's 32lbs with 3.5" Captiv-8er UL tires.

Shortening bars next week, but that should be the final modification.


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## duggus (May 11, 2007)

Raidthefridgeguy said:


> It is going to be tough for a LBS to compete at the low to mid-range.


I don't think it is going to affect many shops any more than it already doesn't affect them. Bikes Direct has been around awhile and sells a whole range of other bikes - road bikes, mountain bikes, 29ers, etc.

Yet people still buy brand name bikes in bike shops. I think it is awesome they are really coming out swinging on this, but realistically people are still going to buy from bike shops like they kept doing when bikes direct came along with a bunch of 29ers.


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

Hey guys, how important are hydro brakes to you guys? I'd go for the Boris X9 but it doesn't have hydro brakes, but I've been told that good mechanical disc brakes like the
Avids are not that bad. Not sure how the Tektro's are compared to the mechanical Avid's.

Which fat bike is the lightest from bikes direct? (stock)


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

GaryH said:


> Hey guys, how important are hydro brakes to you guys? I'd go for the Boris X9 but it doesn't have hydro brakes, but I've been told that good mechanical disc brakes like the
> Avids are not that bad. Not sure how the Tektro's are compared to the mechanical Avid's.
> 
> Which fat bike is the lightest from bikes direct? (stock)


I find hydros particularly important for trail and downhill applications. The set that comes on the FB4 Elite (Shimano M395) can easily be found for just $70 w/ rotors. They've performed great for me and stay put, requiring minimal adjustment.

It has been said that mech disk brakes are prefered for sub-zero winter riding because hydraulic fluid can freeze up. I think the likelihood that cable brakes will freeze up is just as great as mineral oil freezing, though. Unless you are living near the arctic, I believe the cold weather performance between mech and hydro is a wash.

The X9 is the lightest of the bikes that have been available so far. It remains to be seen how light the Gravity bikes will be, but I am assuming fairly light due to the 50mm rims.


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

I do alot of steep downhill rides. The v-brakes on my SC superlight doesn't cut it.
I can make it down the long descent, but my arms/hands burn from the extreme grip I need to keep the Avid brakes engaged. After doing this trail for 2 years my hands don't
get as tired anymore, but I want better brakes.

I have an old Warp DS-1 with mechanical brakes which I rarely use because the bike is heavy compared to the SC superlight, but I decided to take that bike on this trail and going down hill was easy! Arms/hands did not burn and I went down like it was nothing.

I can imagine what the hydro brakes are like - probably effortless braking.

I live in CA so I do not ride in sub-zero weather.

From looking at the fat bike offerings, it looks like the gravity brand is a cheaper brand with a lower price point. Any one have the a Gravity bike that can comment on the quality of their Gravity?

It seems it would be wise to pick a bike that is Bluto ready... 
Gary



AdamJay said:


> I find hydros particularly important for trail and downhill applications. The set that comes on the FB4 Elite (Shimano M395) can easily be found for just $70 w/ rotors. They've performed great for me and stay put, requiring minimal adjustment.
> 
> It has been said that mech disk brakes are prefered for sub-zero winter riding because hydraulic fluid can freeze up. I think the likelihood that cable brakes will freeze up is just as great as mineral oil freezing, though. Unless you are living near the arctic, I believe the cold weather performance between mech and hydro is a wash.
> 
> The X9 is the lightest of the bikes that have been available so far. It remains to be seen how light the Gravity bikes will be, but I am assuming fairly light due to the 50mm rims.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

GaryH said:


> I can imagine what the hydro brakes are like - probably effortless braking.


Yes, exactly. 1 or 2 finger braking. Whichever is more comfortable for you. I usually have my index on the high shifter, thumb on the low shifter, and middle finger on the brake lever. They make me a less hesitant, and more aggressive rider and that just makes the entire experience more enjoyable.


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## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

Raidthefridgeguy said:


> It is going to be tough for a LBS to compete at the low to mid-range. On the plus side, the great shops will embrace this and step up their game on service and be just fine.


Nah.

BD has been around for a while. Life will go on just as it always has.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

GaryH said:


> Hey guys, how important are hydro brakes to you guys? I'd go for the Boris X9 but it doesn't have hydro brakes, but I've been told that good mechanical disc brakes like the
> Avids are not that bad. Not sure how the Tektro's are compared to the mechanical Avid's.
> 
> Which fat bike is the lightest from bikes direct? (stock)


I have a Boris and wanted to try BB7's prior to the Boris purchase.
Honestly there is not a lot of difference in either power or modulation compared to my hydros. 
High quality cable housing is supposed to make them even stronger but I have these dialed pretty sweet as is.


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

I'll second this, the BB7s are as good as most hydro brakes I have and certainly better than the cheaper ones. One of the reasons I chose the X9 was because of the BB7's over cheap hydros. I think if you really prefer hydos go with shimanos, I think one or two of BDs other options have them.



Anthem1 said:


> I have a Boris and wanted to try BB7's prior to the Boris purchase.
> Honestly there is not a lot of difference in either power or modulation compared to my hydros.
> High quality cable housing is supposed to make them even stronger but I have these dialed pretty sweet as is.


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## metc1537 (Jun 30, 2010)

finny1999 said:


> I'll second this, the BB7s are as good as most hydro brakes I have and certainly better than the cheaper ones. One of the reasons I chose the X9 was because of the BB7's over cheap hydros. I think if you really prefer hydos go with shimanos, I think one or two of BDs other options have them.


Agreed. I have all of my bikes set up with BB7's now. Power is ample, modulation exceeds my ability to appropriately use it, and the design is so simple, I just don't foresee any problems even on my tourer. I am of the opinion that for typical XC riding (can't comment on the rigors of downhill) that the BB7 is the best platform available right now, all things considered.


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

I'm thinking I might upgrade the BB7's on my Boris to Shimano hydros if they give more mechanical advantage. When that heavy front wheel gets pushed around in the rock gardens I would like my middle finger on the bar. This vs the my classic two fingers hold on the brake leavers. 

I've got a set of compressionless brake cables that I'm going to try first. See if I can get the BB7's really dialed. 

The other upgrade I want is some tires with more bite. I'm waiting to see if someone will report that GC's will fit Boris. 

Anyone else try the Vee Mission's mounted backwards? I'm almost convinced this gives more grip and less self steer.


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## donnieboy (Jan 20, 2014)

Says 80mm rims...fat enough to ride 5" tires if you want! These are great if you want to cycle on sand, accross a bog or marsh or snow with some float. I know a guy who rode one due to back problems on "skinny"er tires. Even MTB tires of 2.3-2.5 didn't solve back problems from road vibration/pavement cracks on "long" ish rides over 30-60mins. I might get one for snowy bike paths in Canada during the winter to keep fit in conjunction with studded fat tires for some occasional ice. Riding in 3' of snow is like doing rotational squats! It will test you, but usually only relevant where there are no city service plows...in the bush.


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

Huh?


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

Thanks all for the response on the mechanical vs hydro brakes.

I think I want to wait until the bluto bikes come out.
Anyone know when BD will sell their bluto bikes?

Gary


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

drolic said:


> I'm thinking I might upgrade the BB7's on my Boris to Shimano hydros if they give more mechanical advantage. When that heavy front wheel gets pushed around in the rock gardens I would like my middle finger on the bar. This vs the my classic two fingers hold on the brake leavers.
> 
> I've got a set of compressionless brake cables that I'm going to try first. See if I can get the BB7's really dialed.
> 
> ...


Did you consider larger rotors? The only real way to improve disk brakes. Put 200mm in front.

My only peeve with BB7 is one side piston. I have seen a few new mechanicals coming out with two sided actuation.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

FYI, Chris at BD informed me that the frames on the Gravity Bullseye and Gravity Bullseye Monster are different. The Bullseye non-Monster will take only up to a 3.5" tire.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

I've known about BD for a while now but never really considered buying anything till now. Really interested in the Boris but would like to wait on more details about the Sturgis non-Bluto. I am confused though about why some higher spec bikes are cheaper than some lower. Example FB4 Pro vs Boris x9.


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

siv said:


> I've known about BD for a while now but never really considered buying anything till now. Really interested in the Boris but would like to wait on more details about the Sturgis non-Bluto. I am confused though about why some higher spec bikes are cheaper than some lower. Example FB4 Pro vs Boris x9.


I am sure a place like BD has a fixed margin, so it really all depends on when and how much they paid for a certain bike. I have seen this many times, where a bike with, what I consider to be beter components, is cheaper than a lesser bike.
That said, the two bikes you mention are very different, and it has a lot to do with preference.
One bike is all aluminum with all shimano components and brakes, the other has a steel fork with Sram and Avid brakes.
Overall, and for my preferences, the Boris lineup seems to be the way to go.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

fat_tires_are_fun said:


> I am sure a place like BD has a fixed margin, so it really all depends on when and how much they paid for a certain bike. I have seen this many times, where a bike with, what I consider to be beter components, is cheaper than a lesser bike.
> That said, the two bikes you mention are very different, and it has a lot to do with preference.
> One bike is all aluminum with all shimano components and brakes, the other has a steel fork with Sram and Avid brakes.
> Overall, and for my preferences, the Boris lineup seems to be the way to go.


Between those two I agree for sure. I probably woulda pulled he trigger on a Boris x9 if it weren't for the mention of the Sturgis, hope they release more info soon. I know it's picky but I don't like that there's no gusset between the the top and bottom tube on a Large Boris bike, just don't like the way it looks.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Theres a guy on Youtube with a Boris X9 XL frame, doesnt look as bad as i thought so Im assuming a Large would be cooler than I assumed. Also, whats the deal with those brake adapter things?


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Those are adjustable dropouts for running single speed, if you are referring to what appear to be bolts sticking out rearward


Pedaling


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## rdub315 (Apr 14, 2014)

I'm also eagerly anticipating the Sturgis. Think it's my next bike.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

New shot of the upcoming BD with the Snowshoe 4.7 (4.2) on the BD FB page. Looks like tons of room.

https://www.facebook.com/1221998643...22199864367/10153009994289368/?type=1&theater


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

so much fat


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Any other colors for the Sturgis? I aleady own a black bike and a grey bike, so I need a bike with some color for a change. I have an orange FB4 comp on order, but I saw a pic of the brightly colored Night Train with 150/190 sizing and I think that might be the way to go. I don't need the fat bike right this second, probably won't ride it much until December anyways. Did they mention when they might start accepting pre-orders for the Sturgis or Night Train? The FB4's are supposed to ship at the end of the month so I would have to try to cancel that order and order one of those models. I've also been toying with the Boris x7 in orange. Man, a lot of choices.


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## Ivan M (Mar 18, 2014)

i just found this thread, and just found out about MOTOBECANE, May have to order an FB4 Elite, Wanted the SE model, but none in Medium which is the size i would need. If anyone knows what i should upgrade after i get it please chyme in. For the price, i don't think i can go wrong, this is something i just want to play around with, plus want to get a 29R Canondale SL1!


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

Ivan, you might look at Price Point. They have the SE [email protected] bikes too. Looks like a 17" is available.


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## Ivan M (Mar 18, 2014)

WOW, thanks!


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

More info about the upcoming Motos on the BD FB page. Looks very clean. TA front with tapered steerer, internal routing. Clean build for a 2nd gen.


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## SundayRiverRider (Oct 29, 2008)

Would a Clownshoe or other 100mm rim work on the front of a Boris?


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

The fork on my 2014 Boris is a Salsa Enabler / Enabler clone. So, if 100 mm fits the Enabler? Go nuts.


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## PerraHunter (Nov 3, 2013)

Ivan M said:


> i just found this thread, and just found out about MOTOBECANE, May have to order an FB4 Elite, Wanted the SE model, but none in Medium which is the size i would need.


The House has the SE bikes too. Check 'em out, I had a good experience with them: On Sale Fat Bikes



Ivan M said:


> If anyone knows what i should upgrade after i get it please chyme in.


HA!!! Read all 78 pages of this thread then read however many pages on the Framed Minnesota Fat Bike thread. Seriously. Read them. Entertaining, educational and sometimes witty.

My advice; ride it for 100 miles or a dozen outings, then decide what needs changing.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Moto f4b elite update. 

Got in on the first batch and happy to report, no issues to date. The bike is mostly stock as I've made no modifications other then cosmetic. Tires are still stock and the mission's are livable.

The bike is a people pleaser, I'm happy with it, and so is everyone who stops and takes notice. Asking questions...where can they get one and how much does a bike like this cost. The faces are priceless.

I've been reading about all the awesome new models coming soon. Now my head is spinning, Co-mo or carbon... bluto or rigged?

Does anyone know what Chrome-Molly they will be going with?


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## SundayRiverRider (Oct 29, 2008)

drolic said:


> The fork on my 2014 Boris is a Salsa Enabler / Enabler clone. So, if 100 mm fits the Enabler? Go nuts.


The SlasoEnabler fork fits a 100mm rim? I thought it was based around an 80mm rim. I'm thinking I'd like the widest rim possible on the front to handle the snowy conditions I'll ride in. I probably won't use the bike on dirt all that often. So, a Boris with a 100mm rim would be my ideal bike at the moment.


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## nathan59801 (Feb 20, 2011)

It's been over a month now since most of you received your Boris X9's. How do you like it? How do you feel about the rims? Any regret? I have one on order and would appreciate your feedback.


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

Admittedly I don't have many trail miles on mine due to some unrelated issues. But, I DO like my 2014 Boris. Sounds like you have a 2015 on order. 

The total weight and wheel set is square in the middle of the 'okay' column. I want to replace tires, but the Missions are livable. 

I like the 2x10 setup, although the shifter actuation its self is odd. I think its a SRAM thing. I'm not really interested in going 1x10. If I were to go crazy I'd make it SS. 

There was another discussion here about brake upgrades. I'm still on the fence here. 

At the end of the day it's still a ridged framed fat bike and it handles like one. So, the price point BD ofers them at is great. Would I do it over again? Sure, and I don't think I'd drop to the x5 model. Simply because I dont feel like I need to upgrade anything drive train now.


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## Brambleheart (May 7, 2014)

I'm in a similar boat. Like the 2x10, although I do prefer SRAM over Shimano for shifters. It was honestly lighter than I expected. I'm comfortable with the bike as delivered, but I am considering lighter tubes and Floaters. The BB7's are good, but kind of a hassle to set up.



drolic said:


> Admittedly I don't have many trail miles on mine due to some unrelated issues. But, I DO like my 2014 Boris. Sounds like you have a 2015 on order.
> 
> The total weight and wheel set is square in the middle of the 'okay' column. I want to replace tires, but the Missions are livable.
> 
> ...


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

SundayRiverRider said:


> The SlasoEnabler fork fits a 100mm rim? I thought it was based around an 80mm rim. I'm thinking I'd like the widest rim possible on the front to handle the snowy conditions I'll ride in. I probably won't use the bike on dirt all that often. So, a Boris with a 100mm rim would be my ideal bike at the moment.


IDK. You would need to research yourself to be certain. What I do know after comparing my fork to a Mukluk is that the Boris fork is an exact replica of the Enabler on the Salsa.

I can tell you there is tons of clearance after my Vee Mission and 80 mm rim. But as always your mileage may vary.


----------



## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Just got back from a slightly muddy, rooty trail ride with the X9. Much more stable than a thinner tired bike and I like it much better than my FS bike. It's all in the wheels/tires. The bike came in at just over 33 lbs, and now is a bit under. I like the way handles and love the stand over height. Would it be nice if it was lighter, I guess, I don't really care, and would have to invest some expensive upgrades to save some smaller amounts of weight, and there was no weight penalty that I could discern.

Lost weight on seat post (had to be 400mm anyway), carbon bars, grips, and tubes, broke even on tires (now has a floater rear and larry front), and I had to add a stem with a riser. Changed nothing in the drive train, but may think about a 10 speed later on. I never got below 3rd gear on anything steep.

Ignorance is bliss, but I really like the X9. Would do it over again, but might think about the X7, but I like the BB7's.


----------



## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

I consider the Boris my best bike for the $ value.
The geo is perfect, the Boris handles great.
Love the BB7's.
Wheels are fine, will probably look to save some weight on the rear hub if/when it dies.
I did go 1 x 10 and found the sping on the long cage X.9. to be a little soft and upgraded to a shorty.
Husker du tire upgrade grips like Lindsay Lohans lips on a vodka bottle.


----------



## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

General question. Do the sliding drop outs serve any other purpose than enabling tension in a single speed setup? 

Anthem you reported a soft rear derailer arm. Would backing the drop outs off help?


----------



## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

drolic said:


> General question. Do the sliding drop outs serve any other purpose than enabling tension in a single speed setup?
> 
> Anthem you reported a soft rear derailer arm. Would backing the drop outs off help?


It is the spring tension of the cage, I don't think slider position would have any influence on it.
I have my sliders slamed forward for the shortest chainstays possible.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Sram type II der. is a widely used item. Sounds like you may have gotten a faulty unit. With the clutch engaged the tension should be strong.


Pedaling


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

The clutch worked, but once into the spring tension the long cage is softer than the shorty.
Not really an issue, more of a peeve.


----------



## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Just got a note, looks like the FB4 Comps are in and they are starting to ship. Should have mine by next week. Pretty happy.


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

I also considered going to a shorter cage as the XT SGS rear mech I put on my FB4 Elite is now a bit much since making the bike 2x9.

This turned out to be a great solution for me. Review: The New Bionicon c.guide eco chainguide | Enduro Mountainbike Magazine
It's quiet, and the new design is much more refined and flexible. It even opens up so you don't have to unlink the chain.


----------



## jerrykr (May 1, 2014)

Nail Every Trail said:


> Just got a note, looks like the FB4 Comps are in and they are starting to ship. Should have mine by next week. Pretty happy.


Hooray!!!!!


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## chrisfromnj (Nov 15, 2007)

I've only got one ride on my Boris X9 -- I bought for winter / snow rides -- but it was all sorts of fun! I may have to start riding it more, but I'm slightly worried about the tires as all the trails here in northern NJ are rock fests and I really don't want to slice the sidewalls. Is it too soon to ask for snow?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

So you had fun riding your bike and you're going to let it sit until snow flies? Ride it man, ride it! I ride my fatty all the time on the rocks (in CT), worst case buy some Floaters, short money.


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## drolic (Dec 10, 2013)

+1 What Jisch said. 

Also, if you're hankering for snow. Seek out some sand. Got beach access there in NJ?


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Riding mine everywhere. Sandy trails, dirt, mud, rocks... It's the honey badger of bikes...


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## adf2112 (Jun 19, 2012)

Ditto. Me and the Boris have riding like crazy in rocks, roots, mud! 
I have to say that it is liberating to ride a bike without (active) suspension - dont miss it really. Will be my main bike for a while.

Your sidewalls *do* take a beating in the rocks and I have had to repair a small hole in my sidewall last week. I also did get a pinch flat blowout in a rock garden. Wont stop me though.

Also a great bike when things are wet and you dont want to wreck the trail or gum up your suspension hardware.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

How are the 72tpi Missions working out on singletrack?
I still have one left that I pulled off during the snow months. Is it worth throwing back on in rear for dry dirt? Wonder if it would be any better than my Endo.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

AdamJay said:


> How are the 72tpi Missions working out on singletrack?
> I still have one left that I pulled off during the snow months. Is it worth throwing back on in rear for dry dirt? Wonder if it would be any better than my Endo.


I never took mine off. Well, to replace the rim tape. I guess, I've learned to work with the limitations of the tires.

Stay off slick rocks and you should be fine. However, I might be placing a floater in front for those unexpected mud puddles.


----------



## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

I ran the Missions for a while before switching to Floaters.

I have a mix of hardpack with some silt on top and granite rock areas. The Missions self-steer horribly on any hard surface especially with camber. It is kinda scary to run on the front tire in my area.

However, the rear is really decent for me. It seems to have even better traction than the Floaters on the hardest trail and rock for me. It doesn't seem to slip on most stuff until it gets really loose and deep.

I am running the Floaters now and they work great everywhere except the hardest trail and rock. The self-steer is gone for me in all conditions. It seems to slip more compared to the Missions on the rear for hard rock. They dig like crazy on mid-pack trail and I can climb damn near anything as long as I can turn the pedals and keep the front end down.

I haven't tried yet, but I think a Floater on front and Mission on the rear could be a great combo for our area.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

AdamJay said:


> How are the 72tpi Missions working out on singletrack?
> I still have one left that I pulled off during the snow months. Is it worth throwing back on in rear for dry dirt? Wonder if it would be any better than my Endo.


The Mission is great in dirt! i've been using the one you gave me for a while now and it rolls nicely and bites hard.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

$1300 for a new fatty with the Bluto???

BD's latest FB post looks promising.


----------



## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Chader09 said:


> $1300 for a new fatty with the Bluto???
> 
> BD's latest FB post looks promising.


They sure do!

I wish this happened the first time around but, then again the bluto, wasn't on the markt yet. Anyone, hear anything on possible builds?


----------



## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

*I bet they bring it out at 1200*

Interesting


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

They've said that, unlike the pictures, these will come with single wall rims.

Good.


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

Im excited, its definitely a proper fat bike


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

Chader09 said:


> $1300 for a new fatty with the Bluto???
> 
> BD's latest FB post looks promising.


yeah but it's a BD.. a pugsley for $300 more is much better.


----------



## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

boogman said:


> yeah but it's a BD.. a pugsley for $300 more is much better.


Move along troll.


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

akacoke said:


> Im excited, its definitely a proper fat bike


Maybe it's just the trails I have around here but I can only think of once I wished I had more suspension (than the tires give). That was with a group downhill on a more rocky trail. I was still keeping up and in some places having to slow down for te full squish bikes.
If I lived in super rocky area with drop offs then if be more excited about it. I'm still thrilled with my BD Boris!

Sent from magic wish granting phone


----------



## boogman (May 21, 2012)

Chader09 said:


> Move along troll.


i guess the sarcasm went over your head...


----------



## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

*24 hours till it lands.*

Orange FB4 with some funky parts to scare the locals.


----------



## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Mr. Doom said:


> Orange FB4 with some funky parts to scare the locals.
> View attachment 894899


Great minds think alike. My orange FB4 is due in tomorrow. I have a set of green floaters, black/white/green seat, green grips, white cabling, white brake rotors, white flat pedals, orange/white rim tape, white headset spacers, white seat bolt clamp, white bike computer. It's going to look sweet when it's all done.

Post pics when your's is all done. Mine might take a while to put it all together. I'm swapping some other parts onto the bike too, new cassette, shifters, BB7's. A lot of the stuff I had laying around when I was going to build up a hardtail all mountain 29er, but decided I might ride the fat bike more.


----------



## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

boogman said:


> i guess the sarcasm went over your head...


Not over my head.

You might consider some indication that is the angle you are attempting.

I know pure text is so great at conveying intent that its seldom needed :/

(see, that's how it's done )


----------



## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Mr. Doom said:


> Orange FB4 with some funky parts to scare the locals.
> View attachment 894899


Riding the great pumpkin.


----------



## mncyclist (Nov 30, 2013)

Anyone know the head tube angle the Bluto Bike?


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Been putting a lot of hard miles on my FB4 Elite, and looking forward to a bottom bracket replacement in the next few hundred miles. I like to order these things before I need them, as to not miss out on much riding.

I cannot find much info on the EB-2401 BB that came stock with these samox cranks.
Would the Amazon.com : Truvativ/SRAM GXP 100mm English for Fat Bike : Bottom Bike Brackets And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors be compatible?
And, if not, can anyone recommend a readily available BB replacement I can order online.


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

essentially, any 24mm diameter BB cup would work. 

but ive had problem with fsa ceramic cups with RF cranks. from my understanding is, if your cranks comes with a BB cup with plastic inner sleeve/cap like RF and shimano. you are better off ordering a replacement BB with the plastic dont matter which brand. the FSA ceramic BB like hope, chris king or enduro bearing conversion dont have that plastic sleeve. it could have a play in between the spindle and BB bearings. i hope this makes sense


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

akacoke said:


> essentially, any 24mm diameter BB cup would work.
> 
> but ive had problem with fsa ceramic cups with RF cranks. from my understanding is, if your cranks comes with a BB cup with plastic inner sleeve/cap like RF and shimano. you are better off ordering a replacement BB with the plastic dont matter which brand. the FSA ceramic BB like hope, chris king or enduro bearing conversion dont have that plastic sleeve. it could have a play in between the spindle and BB bearings. i hope this makes sense


Sadly, my technical knowledge on most of what you just typed is limited.

Would the GXP 100mm BB I posted do the job? Or should i get an 83mm and some BB spacers?


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

AdamJay said:


> Sadly, my technical knowledge on most of what you just typed is limited.
> 
> Would the GXP 100mm BB I posted do the job? Or should i get an 83mm and some BB spacers?


your safest bet would be a race face DH BB, cups are all the same between 73 83 100. just the center dust/waster tube is different length. sometimes different cups you can use the same dust tube.

i personally never run those center tubes on any of my bikes, ive never had a rusty spindle or spindle scoring due to dirt.


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

and you actually dont have to replace the BB if you are unsure. you can take off the plastic cover and pop the seal on the bearings then repack them every now and then


----------



## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

AdamJay said:


> Sadly, my technical knowledge on most of what you just typed is limited.
> 
> Would the GXP 100mm BB I posted do the job? Or should i get an 83mm and some BB spacers?


You can not use a GXP BB, sram has a stepped spindle.(non drive side is smaller)
You need a shimano specific BB, any will work slx, xt, xtr, chris King, Hope, etc.


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

Anthem1 said:


> You can not use a GXP BB, sram has a stepped spindle.(non drive side is smaller)
> You need a shimano specific BB, any will work slx, xt, xtr, chris King, Hope, etc.


no offense or anything, from personal experience shimano BBs(deore, xt and saint) are not very good. they dont last long. for similar budget i would choose raceface team DH or race DH over them, those have bigger balls in their bearings, its better BB. hope and chris king would be nice, but ive never tried them so can not comment on the fitment and reliability.


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

akacoke said:


> no offense or anything, from personal experience shimano BBs(deore, xt and saint) are not very good. they dont last long. for similar budget i would choose raceface team DH or race DH over them, those have bigger balls in their bearings, its better BB. hope and chris king would be nice, but ive never tried them so can not comment on the fitment and reliability.


None taken, I have had just the opposite experience.
2 RF BB's dead with in 3 months, never again.
Had pretty good luck with XT's.
Kings are my fav, very ez to remove outter seal flush with wd-40 and relube with your lube of choice, or they have their fancy grease injector if you are so inclined.


----------



## boogman (May 21, 2012)

BD just announced a 190mm cromoly fatbike for $1000.

Seriosuly who would buy a surly at that price? The only thing QBP can do now is to make their entire lineup made in USA, then they have a true differentiator...

Would get rid of my pugs.. but it's not worth much money anymore given all the new options for less $..


----------



## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

AdamJay said:


> Would the GXP 100mm BB I posted do the job? Or should i get an 83mm and some BB spacers?


Sorry I missed this earlier.

Edit, I forgot my bike was sitting behind me. 
This is what I put on there: 
MTB MEGAEXO BOTTOM BRACKET - Ø24
Works beautifully.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

boogman said:


> BD just announced a 190mm cromoly fatbike for $1000.
> 
> Seriosuly who would buy a surly at that price?


I don't pick my bikes based on this level of detail "190mm cromoly fatbike for $1000."

If you do I can see why the BD option would be so appealing and Walmart will probably crush BD with a "190mm cromoly fatbike for $400" if you can wait a bit.


----------



## trojan9x (Dec 5, 2005)

Here is what you are looking for I believe.

Motobecane LURCH Fat Bike News:

This bike will be in August 15th or so; we feel it will be the best 4130 chrome-moly Fat Bike around for several reasons!

Geo will be:

Seat Tube Length
14", 16", 18", 20", 22"

Top Tube Length
545.9, 554.4, 566.6, 582.0, 600.1

Effective Top Tube Length
560.2, 581.1, 595.8, 610.3, 625.2

Head Tube Angle
70.0, 70.5, 70.5, 70.5, 70.5

Seat Tube Angle
73.0, 72.0, 72.0, 72.0, 72.0

BB Drop
55.0, 55.0, 55.0, 55.0, 55.0

Chainstay Length
448.6, 448.6, 448.6, 448.6, 448.6

Wheelbase
1061.8, 1067.6, 1082.6, 1097.5, 1112.9

Standover Height
735.1, 758.9, 786.7, 819.8, 853.2

Head Tube Length
95.0, 102.0, 112.0, 130.0, 150.0

LURCH will have 190mm rear spacing and 150mm front hub. Headtube will be tapered and Bluto ready.

The frame quality will be as good as you ever see on ANY production 4130 frame {same as Moto Gran Premio}

SPEC features will include:

Crank: Samox 22x36
Shifters: X9
R.Der X9
F.Der X7
Cassette: Sram 11-36 10-speed
Brakes: BB7
Hubs: Precision Bearing Novatec
Rims: Weinmann 80mm
Tires: NEW VeeRubber 26x4.5 SnowShoe 72tpi

We are certain this bike will outclass other 4130CM Fat Bikes and our price will have you all ecstatic!
Current thinking is that we can put the LURCH at $995 which would be super [and we maybe able to do something even better for FaceBook followers and our Newsletter members].


----------



## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

wow. that sounds awesome! and comes with snowshoes too, its amazing how much you can get at the $1000 price point now!


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

vikb said:


> I don't pick my bikes based on this level of detail "190mm cromoly fatbike for $1000."
> 
> If you do I can see why the BD option would be so appealing and Walmart will probably crush BD with a "190mm cromoly fatbike for $400" if you can wait a bit.


sure.. the shimano deore RD and freehub on the pugsley makes it a pugsley.. not to mention that fancy kalloy stem + seatpost combo! All for $1600

We already know the level of bikes BD is bringing out.. with components totally comparable with the pricey brands.. now they are trail blazing


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

jkbike said:


> Sorry I missed this earlier.
> 
> Edit, I forgot my bike was sitting behind me.
> This is what I put on there:
> ...


Thank you!
Did you go with the 73mm and use spacers included with the stock BB, or something else?


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## mxer (May 27, 2006)

Just picked up my first fatty at the local BD store.Got the Boris x7 for 599.00 plus tax.Woods ride tomorrow.Looking forward to it!Seems the bluto should work?Will be the first upgrade along with some hydro brakes.


----------



## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

mxer said:


> Just picked up my first fatty at the local BD store.Got the Boris x7 for 599.00 plus tax.Woods ride tomorrow.Looking forward to it!Seems the bluto should work?Will be the first upgrade along with some hydro brakes.


Congrats- great price! Wait on the hydro brakes, though, until you try the bb5s that came with it....


----------



## mxer (May 27, 2006)

mikeymon1 said:


> Congrats- great price! Wait on the hydro brakes, though, until you try the bb5s that came with it....


I will for sure!I hope they do bluto with a straight steerer.


----------



## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

AdamJay said:


> Did you go with the 73mm and use spacers included with the stock BB


Yep. I believe he reused the included spacer, or maybe just discarded it altogether. The spacer isn't what makes the external BB work.


----------



## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Having a beeyatch of a time trying to remove and replace one of the rotors on my new FB4. I got the front rotor off fine but the back wheel is basically glued on. I can't seem to budge one of the bolts. Took it to the shop for my mechanic friend to look at and he couldn't get the job done either. I just stopped and bought some deep penetrating oil stuff to see if that might un- seize them. Any other thoughts on getting these off? I'm finally getting around to putting it together, just need a few more upgrade parts.


----------



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I had the same issue, the bolts were incredibly tight, I was successful, but I was certain I was headed to stripped bolt city there for a few. I didn't do anything unusual, except brute force and steady downward pressure to make sure the wrench was fully engaged on the Torx.


----------



## boogman (May 21, 2012)

how tight can it be!? you got a cheater bar? If you can break a rusty bolt off of your car, then a puny rotor bolt should be no problem


----------



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

The torx heads are so shallow on rotor bolts, its pretty hard to get any kind of cheater bar on and keep that tool in the bolt head.


----------



## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I have used a torx bit in a cordless drill set on a lower torque setting, sometimes the light hammering effect can help to loosen them.


----------



## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

Nail Every Trail said:


> Having a beeyatch of a time trying to remove and replace one of the rotors on my new FB4. I got the front rotor off fine but the back wheel is basically glued on. I can't seem to budge one of the bolts. Took it to the shop for my mechanic friend to look at and he couldn't get the job done either. I just stopped and bought some deep penetrating oil stuff to see if that might un- seize them. Any other thoughts on getting these off? I'm finally getting around to putting it together, just need a few more upgrade parts.


Try a little heat on the bolt, maybe?


----------



## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

mxer said:


> Just picked up my first fatty at the local BD store.Got the Boris x7 for 599.00 plus tax.Woods ride tomorrow.Looking forward to it!Seems the bluto should work?Will be the first upgrade along with some hydro brakes.


That's a hell of a price. I ordered the same bike for my daughter from BD website and it cost more than that.


----------



## mxer (May 27, 2006)

Bearhunter said:


> That's a hell of a price. I ordered the same bike for my daughter from BD website and it cost more than that.


Yes,I got a great deal!Told them it was that price on the site and they said no problem!


----------



## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

What's a local BD store? Is there a way to find out if you have one in your area?


----------



## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Suprised they had the X7 in stock, mine is not expected until late August.


----------



## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

mikeymon1 said:


> Try a little heat on the bolt, maybe?


That would be the first thing to try. Some heat should loosen the loctite on the bolt threads.


----------



## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

Barheet said:


> What's a local BD store? Is there a way to find out if you have one in your area?


I think they just have one or two physical locations. I know they have one in Jacksonville, FL, stopped in when I was in the area just to believe they are actually someones LBS and they might have something in Texas. I don't believe they have anything else since they're not collecting sales tax from any states other than those.


----------



## mxer (May 27, 2006)

Barheet said:


> What's a local BD store? Is there a way to find out if you have one in your area?


Store,shop,outlet.Call it what you want.I believe Texas and Florida have outlets.Hope this helps.

Sorry,didn't realize finny posted the info.


----------



## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

It's June 5th now, that means the Gravity's should be shipping soon! Anybody have any news on that?


----------



## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Did any of you take advantage of the free deal they offered to vets on Memorial Day? Anyone vet that had an order in, or placed an order (for a bike) got a free Vuelta toolkit and bicycle repair/assembly CD.


----------



## dmars3571 (May 17, 2008)

My Bullseye Monster in matte black was delivered today! Unfortunately, I won't have a chance to open the box until Monday.


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

dmars3571 said:


> My Bullseye Monster in matte black was delivered today! Unfortunately, I won't have a chance to open the box until Monday.


pleas post lots of pictures. which size did you buy?


----------



## dmars3571 (May 17, 2008)

18" Matte black, pics to follow. I have several upgrades I plan on doing from the get go: drill rims larger, gorilla tape rim strips, 26x2.4 tubes; Race Face bars, stem, seatpost, X7 shifters and derailleurs.


----------



## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Can someone give an "in a nutshell" summary of the pros/cons of the 135/170/190 axle widths? Thanks.


----------



## buckfiddious (Nov 14, 2011)

OnThaCouch said:


> Can someone give an "in a nutshell" summary of the pros/cons of the 135/170/190 axle widths? Thanks.


135: can use inexpensive (or very expensive) 135 hubs- they're cheap and easy to find, can also use common IGH hubs, can swap wheels front to bak if you want. Asymetrical wheel build supposedly makes building summer wheels/29er wheels difficult.

170: wider than 135, hubs fairly common, symmetrical wheel build makes building summer wheels/29er wheels a lot easier, supposedly fits wider tires. the middle child size, will probably be abandoned in favor of 190. Because bigger is always better?

190: Really wide, allows for bigger tires on bigger rims. Hubs less common, symetrical wheel build makes building summer wheels/29er wheels a lot easier.


----------



## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Thanks for the quick reply and helpful summary. Looks like I'll wait for the LURCH or STURGIS. Anyone have any idea when these would be available for order? Link?


----------



## kelbo (May 13, 2014)

Put my Walgoose Dolo(and DJ bike) on craigslist this morning in hopes to upgrade to a Boris. 

Didnt think I could afford a decent fat bike, but looking back at it, I've at least spent enough on my Dolo to afford a Bullseye. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.


----------



## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

Anybody else have a creaky fork on one of the FB4's? Took the crown race off and its coming from the steer tube, flexing it by hand makes a cracking noise.


----------



## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

adw31 said:


> Anybody else have a creaky fork on one of the FB4's? Took the crown race off and its coming from the steer tube, flexing it by hand makes a cracking noise.


My creaks also. I assumed it was the carbon headset spacers I installed. Is the steerer loose?


----------



## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

wookie said:


> My creaks also. I assumed it was the carbon headset spacers I installed. Is the steerer loose?


Can't feel any play, but it's from where the steer tube meets the fork crown. Seems to have a pretty loose fit. The other rigid forks I have here looks press fit then welded, this one looks a few thousands oversized so the steer tubes moving around above where its welded at the bottom.


----------



## gravitylover (Sep 1, 2009)

^^ Danger danger.


----------



## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

gravitylover said:


> ^^ Danger danger.


Yeah, luckily held up for two rides, figured it was the bars or stem. Hopefully will hear from them tomorrow. Not sure how their warranty works.


----------



## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

boogman said:


> sure.. the shimano deore RD and freehub on the pugsley makes it a pugsley.. not to mention that fancy kalloy stem + seatpost combo! All for $1600
> 
> We already know the level of bikes BD is bringing out.. with components totally comparable with the pricey brands.. now they are trail blazing


Score one for CopiesDirect! The great fatbike trailblazers, CopiesDirect!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

wookie said:


> My creaks also. I assumed it was the carbon headset spacers I installed. Is the steerer loose?


Here's a video of the noise.


----------



## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

That sounds more like a snap than a creak.


----------



## mxer (May 27, 2006)

I have a bout 70 hard woods miles on my boris x7 and no weird noises yet.Crank bolt came loose a couple of times but seems to have seated in now.

This is my first fatty and it is a blast!Put on some clipless pedals and odi grips and let it fly.Waitin on a shim to install my spare thudbuster post.Plan to put a bluto up front and hydro discs for sure.Will need a 150 front hub so hope to build on a lighter rim.Will go with lighter tires and tubes also.The traction is incredible and i find with the extra volume my carpal tunnel doesn't act up nearly as bad.I imagine with the bluto,thudbuster and carbon bar i will be good to go.

Will be a good time for my snowy winter trips up north also.


----------



## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

dmars3571 said:


> 18" Matte black, pics to follow. I have several upgrades I plan on doing from the get go: drill rims larger, gorilla tape rim strips, 26x2.4 tubes; Race Face bars, stem, seatpost, X7 shifters and derailleurs.


You had a chance to put it together yet? Mine should be coming in soon, I'm so excited!


----------



## hoobash (Oct 2, 2007)

Think I am going to buy a bullseye but I a have a set of surly tires the endomorph 3.7 and larry 3.8 that I want to put in it. I figure the bullsye and bullseye monster are the same frame/fork and wheels I just want to make sure first.


----------



## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Any word on when orders can be placed for the Sturgis or Lurch? Or a timeline on when a Ti version might be available? I asked on the BD FB page and got no response.


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

hoobash said:


> Think I am going to buy a bullseye but I a have a set of surly tires the endomorph 3.7 and larry 3.8 that I want to put in it. I figure the bullsye and bullseye monster are the same frame/fork and wheels I just want to make sure first.


They are not.
I inquired with BD and they said non monster was 3.5" tire max. Get the monster.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

AdamJay said:


> They are not.
> I inquired with BD and they said non monster was 3.5" tire max. Get the monster.


Thanks for clearing that up, Now I'm glad I opted for the monster. (Based on your suggestion on my half fat build thread) :thumbsup:


----------



## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

adw31 said:


> Here's a video of the noise.


FYI: I inquired with BD about the creak; they sent me a new fork. Should be here in a couple of days.


----------



## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

wookie said:


> FYI: I inquired with BD about the creak; they sent me a new fork. Should be here in a couple of days.


Yeah, got a response this afternoon, new fork shipping out today.


----------



## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Interesting on the FB4 fork. I just got a new orange FB4 comp a few weeks ago, but am still waiting on some parts to build it up. I have not really inspected the fork. How did you notice the noise? Could I detect a problem without riding my bike first?


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Bearhunter said:


> That sounds more like a snap than a creak.


it does sound like a snap...

I ride pretty good on this bike and I have developed some creeking. I assumed the creeking was coming from the bars or stem...I've tightened everything up.

Still creeks though yet, doesn't sound like a snap.

Ideas???


----------



## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

Solo-Rider said:


> it does sound like a snap...
> 
> I ride pretty good on this bike and I have developed some creeking. I assumed the creeking was coming from the bars or stem...I've tightened everything up.
> 
> ...


I think this started on the first ride, I figured it was the stem and hadn't noticed it during assembly or test ride. Only about 15 miles on it so far. Any force on the bars or stems would make noise, disassembled I can hold the steer tube and fork leg and flexing them would make the popping sound. I tried different bars, stem, spacers and regreased. I'll have to keep an eye on the new fork when it gets here.


----------



## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

just got an e-mail from BD saying that they were out of stock on the green monster, and that i could either have a refund or wait a few weeks. i ordered back in april to avoid the whole 'out of stock' problem. i told them i would wait. seeing as its already been 2 months, i figure whats another couple weeks? i'm just surprised that my order wasn't early enough to get in on the first batch.


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

Oh snap!

Had fun for a week then had a argument with a fence and the fence won... 
Fence>collar bone.

Minimal upgrades include 
a much longer seatpost (had one)
better zip ties
bash guard (old ground down DH ring)
785mm bars $35 
Deore derailleur (had one)
green Floaters ($110)
$16 ebay saddle.


----------



## j35u5fr34k (Aug 20, 2008)

I too am waiting on the Sturgis. Looks like a great bike.


----------



## dmars3571 (May 17, 2008)

My Fat Monster. What a blast to ride!


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

what a tease ! you got more pictures ?


----------



## nathan59801 (Feb 20, 2011)

I've done my share of research and can't find a definite answer. Will a BUD and LOU fit a stock 2x10 Boris X9? Thank you for the help.


----------



## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Front no problem rear questionable...
































5/8" clearance from sidewall on drive side 3/8" clearance on non drive side with floaters.don't have a bud or Lou to match up.... Hope that helps

Sent from magic wish granting phone


----------



## nathan59801 (Feb 20, 2011)

Thanks Rcksqrl. How do you like your Boris?


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## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

Love it. Already have my full suspension bike spoken for as I haven't ridden it once some the Boris came in. 
People are a little in awe of how well it rides and does on the local trails. Grip is awesome and couldn't imagine trying to ride a skinny tire bike again. Sand, rocks, washboard..... Where??? It soaks up almost all if the above. (No huge boulders here but lots of sandy wash and single track (or double track) which the bike seems to shine.


Sent from magic wish granting phone


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## porkloin (Jun 12, 2014)

Hey all,

Potential budget buyer here. I live in Fairbanks, AK and have been recently commuting through the winter on studded mtb tires. I've been able to get a good gig through my university, which hooks students up with Kona Lanai's w/studs and poagies for the whole winter on the cheap.

In prep for this winter, though, I'm looking to make the jump to a fatbike and stumbled across these cheap deals on Bikesdirect. In particular I've been eyeballing the Gravity Bullseye Monster [http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/gravity/fat-bikes/fat-bikes-bullseye-monster.htm]. From reading some of the recent activity on this thread it looks like a lot of folks are just getting their first shipments of the Gravity model bikes.

Anyway, I'm mainly wondering what the functional difference between something like the Bullseye Monster and the Motobecane FB4 would be. I realize some of the components are different, but I'm not a huge gearhead, so I'm wondering if you all might be able to help me understand if the better hardware is really necessary for me.

Thanks!


----------



## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Just posted on the BikesDirect Facebook page.

Motobecane's New 2015 Lurch Fat Bikes will have fork brazeons and come in six colors

They'll have 190/150 hubs with Bluto ready HT


----------



## jkbike (Oct 11, 2013)

porkloin said:


> Anyway, I'm mainly wondering what the functional difference between something like the Bullseye Monster and the Motobecane FB4 would be.


It looks like it has 50mm rims rather than the 80/100mm rims on the FB4. Wider rims help the fat tires to be more stable at low pressures. 
It looks like the shifting components are in about the same range, some a step lower. I really wouldn't want any lower than what came on my FB4...I'm actually planning to upgrade eventually. 
Other than that, the thing that really stands out is the brakes. Aside from the typical mech/hydro brake tradeoffs, those brakes don't seem to be loved by much of anyone. 
It'll probably also be just a bit heavier with the steel fork rather than aluminum. 
It doesn't look like a horrible bike, but it is cheaper for a reason. 
Hope that helps.


----------



## j35u5fr34k (Aug 20, 2008)

Cmon Sturgis!


----------



## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

What psi are you running in your Boris? Mine is stock and I am taking it to the beach....I don't want pinch flats but other than that I want it low. Also -'I am 195lbs


----------



## Rcksqrl (Aug 29, 2013)

8 in the front 10 in the rear. I'm 215-220.... (Fat guy for fat bike) single track, rocks embedded in trail, scrubbed te tires a bit and I'll admit I've gotten some air on downhills without any issues with pinch flats. Think it was delivered with 30+ psi....

Tires were down to 6-7 for a bit but I felt better with 8/10. Still plenty of squish for me and all the traction I can use!


Sent from magic wish granting phone


----------



## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

jkbike said:


> It looks like it has 50mm rims rather than the 80/100mm rims on the FB4. Wider rims help the fat tires to be more stable at low pressures.
> It looks like the shifting components are in about the same range, some a step lower. I really wouldn't want any lower than what came on my FB4...I'm actually planning to upgrade eventually.
> Other than that, the thing that really stands out is the brakes. Aside from the typical mech/hydro brake tradeoffs, those brakes don't seem to be loved by much of anyone.
> It'll probably also be just a bit heavier with the steel fork rather than aluminum.
> ...


What would make you believe it has 50mm rims? I can't really tell but that would be kinda silly to have such a narrow rim.. That is a good looking steel frame. The rear tire clearance does look lacking if big meats are wanted. How much is it?
EDIT/ disregard, I thought you were speaking of the Lurch. sorry about that


----------



## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Hey Doom, how do you like that saddle off of ebay? Was gonna order same one in diff color. Its like the Tioga spider saddle right?


----------



## hoobash (Oct 2, 2007)

Just got my gravity bullseye monstor form ups and the front fork is bent the rim only fits on the bike with force I have to return it not happy. Anyone have to do returns with them?


----------



## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

I ordered tires from them a few months ago and they were incorrect. Called them and they sent me return label at no cost and next day air on the correct tires. Impressive customer service.


----------



## BigVaz (Feb 19, 2010)

Lurch looks pretty sweet.


----------



## nick d (May 25, 2007)

my gravity monster from bikes direct at JDSP in hobe sound fl.

changes include:

carbon bars
carbon post
shimano stx rc crank with bbg inner bashguard (bashwich)
delete front derailleur and shifter
sram 990 cassette
sram x7 rear shifter
kmc 9spd chain
shimano m600 levers
wtb ti rail seat.

weight after mods is 33.25 lbs


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

what size you got?


----------



## nick d (May 25, 2007)

small/16"


----------



## MPE (Dec 3, 2013)

I thought that terrain looked familiar! I have camped at Jonathan Dickinson as well as Tanah Keeta (behind it). How did your Gravity Monster handle all that sugar sand? I might need to make a trip up to JDSP and check it out.

Take care,

Mike



nick d said:


> View attachment 901819
> 
> View attachment 901820
> 
> ...


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

adw31 said:


> I think this started on the first ride, I figured it was the stem and hadn't noticed it during assembly or test ride. Only about 15 miles on it so far. Any force on the bars or stems would make noise, disassembled I can hold the steer tube and fork leg and flexing them would make the popping sound. I tried different bars, stem, spacers and regreased. I'll have to keep an eye on the new fork when it gets here.


Any updates? My Elite's fork creaks too. Just emailed BD.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

*looks like Lurch is ready*

Nice


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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Some nice color options

Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Lurch X9 SRAM ROckshox Bluto Ready


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

I'm digging the Lurch in purple. Will they be releasing a model with a Bluto?


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

This is their best looking frame IMO. There seems to be a lot less tire clearance compared to the alum/ Stugis though.
Plus sliding rear dropouts are a disappointment considering all the new style rears. Is the rear 190?


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

Kawidan said:


> Some nice color options
> 
> Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Lurch X9 SRAM ROckshox Bluto Ready


Why would I buy this over the Regular X9 or the FB4 Fat bikes?
Just curious.
Gary


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

190 rear. Steel frame.


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

AdamJay said:


> 190 rear. Steel frame.


I thought you want an aluminum frame for weight reasons.


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## hoobash (Oct 2, 2007)

Because steel frames ride so sweet. The lurch is the bike for me all my bikes are steel


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## hoobash (Oct 2, 2007)

How are those show shoe tires in the sand?


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## coot271 (Sep 15, 2010)

I wonder what the suspension corrected fork travel is....... 80 or 100mm? The Bluto fork would go nicely with it........and the front wheels are convertable to a 15mm TA!


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

Doubt you'll feel the diff between the steel and aluminum. With those tires and low pressure cant see it being much of a factor besides weight difference. Now on a rigid steel ss 29er, thats a different story. Best looking fatty so far IMO.


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## Ckbrin (Jun 19, 2014)

i like the fb4 elite, but the component value seems better on the boris, Lurch, and upcoming Sturgis. I suspect the Sturgis is the best choice for me, but I doubt it will be available for my planned trip to Florida in August. I almost pulled the trigger a month ago on the fb4 elite, but am now impatiently waiting on the Sturgis.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

The Lurch looks sweet, that purple is sharp. Is it based off a Pugsley frame?

The Sturgis also looks nice, that's not their carbon offering, is it? Is this one based off a different frame?


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## Tincup69 (Sep 5, 2012)

I think I will hold off until the other models are unveiled, I really want something with a Bluto. I'm hoping some of the other models will come with the Snowshoe XL instead of the regular Snowshoe. Purple frame with a Bluto and Snowshoe XL's and I would order right now!


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

The Lurch definitely looks sweet and I am giving it some very serious consideration. With a relatively steep 70.5 ° head tube angle, I'm wondering if it is going to be squirelly in the snow. Any thoughts?


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Is there a geo chart somewhere?
Besides the headtube looks to be a Pugsley design


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

rjedoaks said:


> Is there a geo chart somewhere?
> Besides the headtube looks to be a Pugley design[/QUOte
> 
> I had to go back in the Facebook posts to get frame geometries - look for the one with the 4.5" snowshoe pictured, that's where the geo's are.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Found it
Bikesdirect
Motobecane LURCH Fat Bike News:

This bike will be in August 15th or so; we feel it will be the best 4130 chrome-moly Fat Bike around for several reasons!

Geo will be:

Seat Tube Length
14", 16", 18", 20", 22" 

Top Tube Length
545.9, 554.4, 566.6, 582.0, 600.1 

Effective Top Tube Length
560.2, 581.1, 595.8, 610.3, 625.2 

Head Tube Angle
70.0, 70.5, 70.5, 70.5, 70.5 

Seat Tube Angle
73.0, 72.0, 72.0, 72.0, 72.0 

BB Drop
55.0, 55.0, 55.0, 55.0, 55.0 

Chainstay Length
448.6, 448.6, 448.6, 448.6, 448.6 

Wheelbase
1061.8, 1067.6, 1082.6, 1097.5, 1112.9 

Standover Height
735.1, 758.9, 786.7, 819.8, 853.2 

Head Tube Length
95.0, 102.0, 112.0, 130.0, 150.0 

LURCH will have 190mm rear spacing and 150mm front hub. Headtube will be tapered and Bluto ready.

The frame quality will be as good as you ever see on ANY production 4130 frame {same as Moto Gran Premio}

SPEC features will include:

Crank: Samox 22x36
Shifters: X9
R.Der X9
F.Der X7
Cassette: Sram 11-36 10-speed
Brakes: BB7
Hubs: Precision Bearing Novatec
Rims: Weinmann 80mm
Tires: NEW VeeRubber 26x4.5 SnowShoe 72tpi





Pedaling


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Lurch specs show single wall rims, but pics show double wall. Take if from me, an FB4 owner who swapped his front wheel for a single wall, and built a 2nd wheelset,

You'll want single wall rims.
I would verify with BD on what they will ship with. Get it in writing.
They did say on FB that the Sturgis will ship with single wall, though double wall were pictured.
But they don't always ship what the spec list says, as evidenced by my girlfriend's Windsor Tourist.


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## hoobash (Oct 2, 2007)

I ordered the lurch 20 in purple cant wait


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

i just ordered a bullseye monster black. so happy


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

AdamJay said:


> Lurch specs show single wall rims, but pics show double wall. Take if from me, an FB4 owner who swapped his front wheel for a single wall, and built a 2nd wheelset,
> 
> You'll want single wall rims.
> I would verify with BD on what they will ship with. Get it in writing.
> ...


The spec list says they will ship with single walled rims. In addition, they have said several times they are shipping with single walled rims on facebook. I think that confirms single walled rims on the Sturgis, Night Train, and Bluto lines.

I'm planning on a Sturgis or Night Train, depending on final specs and pricing. As long as I get it before the first snowfall, I'll be happy.


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Barheet said:


> The spec list says they will ship with single walled rims. In addition, they have said several times they are shipping with single walled rims on facebook. I think that confirms single walled rims on the Sturgis, Night Train, and Bluto lines.
> 
> I'm planning on a Sturgis or Night Train, depending on final specs and pricing. As long as I get it before the first snowfall, I'll be happy.


Great. However, I was talking about the Lurch.


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

I wrote Bluto but I meant Lurch. Doh! 

By the way, why doesn't anyone use the Motobecane forum to post about these new fat bikes? Seems like the place to do it.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

akacoke said:


> i just ordered a bullseye monster black. so happy


Good for you! Kinda surprised though, as I thought you weren't interested in cup/cone hubs. Unless I am mistaken and the Bullseye has a better hubset than the Deadeye?


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

Yeah, the lurch looks like a pug with better tire clearance (190 rear). I have several friends who bought pugs last year for almost twice what this is selling for now. I almost want to get one just to rub it in XD

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Clearance does not seem great to my eye. 
I'm wondering if a Ground Control would fit ? I doubt it


Pedaling


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## BigVaz (Feb 19, 2010)

That purple with pink tires tho...

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

bought two fb4 comps. got them in time to get them out in the snow. i thought that would be it for the season, but have hardly ridden my other bikes at all ILOVE THIS THING! Most fun riding since I was a kid. cant wait for the 29+ will be a blast


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## nick d (May 25, 2007)

MPE said:


> I thought that terrain looked familiar! I have camped at Jonathan Dickinson as well as Tanah Keeta (behind it). How did your Gravity Monster handle all that sugar sand? I might need to make a trip up to JDSP and check it out.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Mike


it worked quite well, athough with all the rain and the improvements they have done on the trail you can roll it pretty good on a 29er. what ive really found it to be best at is exploration, riding through the woods where there are no trails, or where the trails are un groomed or so rough its unpleasant to ride a normal mtb.


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## racer37 (Jun 23, 2014)

I was looking at getting the lurch bike. Are any of the bikes better suited for 50k snow races?


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

BD is sending me a Salsa Enabler fork to replace the creakey FB4 Elite fork. No FB4 forks to send.
I told them that I doubt it was compatible due to disc spacing standards (rear on Salsa, front on FB4). They got the fork in to test it with the same FB4 wheel and said it works, but with an adapter. 

I understand adapting an RDS hub to an FDS fork with some spacers.
But I thought FDS hubs could not even be adapted to work with RDS forks, but they assure me it works.

This should be interesting.


----------



## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

AdamJay said:


> BD is sending me a Salsa Enabler fork to replace the creakey FB4 Elite fork. No FB4 forks to send.
> I told them that I doubt it was compatible due to disc spacing standards (rear on Salsa, front on FB4). They got the fork in to test it with the same FB4 wheel and said it works, but with an adapter.
> 
> I understand adapting an RDS hub to an FDS fork with some spacers.
> ...


Did they also offer to pay for you to get your's rewelded? Seemed like a very bad idea to me.

I got a replacement quickly and they said they'd send a small refund. It wound up being a used take-off. I'll have to see how this one holds up, might creak a little under braking, but cant tell if its the brakes/quick release yet or the fork. Also haven't gotten the refund, going to wait to email them back till I can stop by the post office and send the old one back.



















Weight ended up at about 37lbs, little heavier than expected, but rides great. Just now would prefer a steel fork.


----------



## boogman (May 21, 2012)

What constitutes as used? I assume they just took it off a bike they had laying around?


----------



## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

boogman said:


> What constitutes as used? I assume they just took it off a bike they had laying around?


Crown race had wear, paint worn off. Not a lot, but some. So I'm assuming it was a take-off of a returned bike.


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

adw31 said:


> Did they also offer to pay for you to get your's rewelded?


They did not.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

Obviously the Lurch is BD's Pugsley knock off, and the Sturgis is their Fatboy knock off.

But I can't think what the Night Train is - Beargrease? 

Any thoughts?


----------



## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

tyriverag said:


> Obviously the Lurch is BD's Pugsley knock off, and the Sturgis is their Fatboy knock off.
> 
> But I can't think what the Night Train is - Beargrease?
> 
> Any thoughts?


I was looking at frame geometry comparisons between the Lurch and the Moonlander and the fabled Ice Cream Truck. I think it lies somewhere in between the two, steeper head tube angle than the ICT, but a higher bb than either - no offset like the pugs. Could be a fun bike, but I can't bring myself to buy a steel bike from BD if they won't release a weight on it or confirm that someone has actually put a BLUTO on it - a tapered head tube does not mean it is really BLUTO ready - i'm not convinced the crown will clear the down tube.


----------



## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

watermonkey said:


> I was looking at frame geometry comparisons between the Lurch and the Moonlander and the fabled Ice Cream Truck. I think it lies somewhere in between the two, steeper head tube angle than the ICT, but a higher bb than either - no offset like the pugs. Could be a fun bike, but I can't bring myself to buy a steel bike from BD if they won't release a weight on it or confirm that someone has actually put a BLUTO on it - a tapered head tube does not mean it is really BLUTO ready - i'm not convinced the crown with clear the down tube.


The Boris was 35 and that is a light frame. The ICT is like 37. If you are concerned about weight, steel is not the way to go. At least 2 pounds more.I would think that a Bluto has been installed otherwise that would be a big headache. i mean they are boasting about Bluto compatible


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Obviously the Lurch is BD's Pugsley knock off,​
​



are you saying the lurch is a Pugsley knock off because they are both steel frames? the pugsley has 135mm front hub, and a 170 offset rear hub with 65mm marge lite rims. 
the lurch has a 150mm front hub and a symmetrical 190mm rear hub with 80mm rims.

there are many other differences if you look at the frame geometry/specs, including dropouts etc.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

BENKD29, maybe "knock off" was too strong...maybe "BD's version of" or "BD's answer to" would be better. With the names - Pugsley and Lurch being both from the Addam's Family, there is certainly some inspiration, and then yeah, the steel.

With the Fatboy and Sturgis, the names again suggest similarities, or "BD's version of/answer to", with the Fatboy also being a Harley Davidson motorcycle, and Sturgis being a motorcycle event.

That's more what I was asking...what would Night Train relate to?


----------



## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Never thought it that way. Interesting


Pedaling


----------



## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

tyriverag said:


> With the names - Pugsley and Lurch being both from the Addam's Family, there is certainly some inspiration, and then yeah, the steel.
> 
> With the Fatboy and Sturgis, the names again suggest similarities, or "BD's version of/answer to", with the Fatboy also being a Harley Davidson motorcycle, and Sturgis being a motorcycle event.
> 
> That's more what I was asking...what would Night Train relate to?


Thanks for that- didn't make the connection. "Night Train" is another Harley model.


----------



## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

This is a "Boris Bike"... a shared-cycling business in London. Top tube resemblance to the Moto Boris?
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...sdWfnhMElkW8IDcgvdJyS8YKf7n70DFbGgbPmPXwigS6r

9:Zero:7 came up with the design, though-


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

^^ This is what happens when BD sends you an Enabler fork to replace your creaking FB4 Elite fork, even after you tell them that the enabler is incompatible due to disc brake spacing standards, and even after they said they "tested it with a FB4 elite front wheel and it worked and adjusted fine with a side mount 180mm front bracket."

The bracket rubs the rotor. Just like it should.

5mm is 5mm.

Saw this coming. Their turn to try to make it right.... again...


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

AdamJay said:


> Saw this coming. Their turn to try to make it right.... again...


Bummer. Hopefully you have another bike to ride while this is getting sorted out. 

Sounds like they don't really understand the product they are selling. At least they are cheap.


----------



## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

AdamJay said:


> View attachment 903698
> 
> 
> ^^ This is what happens when BD sends you an Enabler fork to replace your creaking FB4 Elite fork, even after you tell them that the enabler is incompatible due to disc brake spacing standards, and even after they said they "tested it with a FB4 elite front wheel and it worked and adjusted fine with a side mount 180mm front bracket."
> ...


I think my replacement fb4 fork may be creaking too, just front to back, not side to side. So I'll be pulling the bike apart again to check and make sure it's not the disc mount. I won a a cheap enabler fork off ebay, so I may just machine down the bracket and use that. Got the idea in this post.

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/front-hub-spacing-dilema-909914.html


----------



## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Can anybody recommend a handlebar with the same dimensions and shape as the handlebar that comes stock on the FB4 ? I really like it and want one like it for another bike. Thanks.


----------



## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

Nail Every Trail said:


> Can anybody recommend a handlebar with the same dimensions and shape as the handlebar that comes stock on the FB4 ? I really like it and want one like it for another bike. Thanks.


Dude- not trying to be a dick... but you're the one that knows the dimensions. Post them, or do the work...


----------



## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

AdamJay said:


> View attachment 903698
> 
> 
> ^^ This is what happens when BD sends you an Enabler fork to replace your creaking FB4 Elite fork, even after you tell them that the enabler is incompatible due to disc brake spacing standards, and even after they said they "tested it with a FB4 elite front wheel and it worked and adjusted fine with a side mount 180mm front bracket."
> ...


I hope the BD people are paying attention to this and are aware that other prospective customers are paying attention to their customer service - and or lack thereof. Sadly, I think you're not the only one that saw this coming, but I was hoping that this would not be the result. If they're not going to have a brick and mortar store where their bike models can be physically checked out, only post frame geometries and other pertinent info on FB, totally omit any reference to bike weights, then at the very least the level of their product knowledge and communication of that knowledge had better be top notch - which it doesn't appear to be. With each passing day, I'm becoming more and more concerned about the Boris that I'm awaiting from them. I understand that this is part of the tradeoff for getting deeply discounted bikes, but at the end of the day, the product still needs to be viable, and the support of that product spot on. 4 days ago I posted a very pertinent comment relating to actual BLUTO fit on a Lurch and have yet to see any sort of reply or response ( I don't think it will work regardless of the tapered head tube). Becoming increasingly skeptical.

Please keep us posted on further developments.


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

I'm sure it will be resolved, I just hope the solution is simple.
I actually have 2 wheelsets for this bike. For front wheels, one is an 80mm Origin 8 rim worth a Hope Fatsno, and the other is another OR8 with an OR8 sealed hub. So a fork with front disc spacing, like the one that came on the bike, would be the best solution.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Update:

BD offered a full return on the bike, due to the fork issue. I was surprised. 
They also gave the option of waiting for an actual replacement fork to come in (though did not mention a timeframe). At first I considered the return, figuing maybe I'd put that $895 toward a Lurch or a used Mukluk, but I have built a 2nd wheelset for this FB4. With the front disc spacing hub and the odd offset in the back, it's a pretty specific wheelset to this specific bike. I decided that due to what I have invested in the bike, I'd rather keep it.
If it weren't for the 2nd wheelset, I probably would have done the return.

I suggested another solution, that I return the Enabler fork, they pay me the retail value of the Enabler fork, and I can put that toward something like a carbon Sarma Hoboy fork myself. They agreed. I'm sending the fork back shortly.

Say what you will about the bikes, BD service simply wants you to be happy with your bike.


Also, Sarma fork is nearly a lb. lighter, and the matte finish fits the FB4 Elite better than the Enabler's gloss, so that's cool too.


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## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

AdamJay said:


> Update:
> 
> BD offered a full return on the bike, due to the fork issue. I was surprised.
> They also gave the option of waiting for an actual replacement fork to come in (though did not mention a timeframe). At first I considered the return, figuing maybe I'd put that $895 toward a Lurch or a used Mukluk, but I have built a 2nd wheelset for this FB4. With the front disc spacing hub and the odd offset in the back, it's a pretty specific wheelset to this specific bike. I decided that due to what I have invested in the bike, I'd rather keep it.
> ...


Replacement fork was creaking again, lasted <30 miles of easy cross country. Pulled the bike apart again and front to back it creaked. So I'll have to see what they offer. I will probably either use the Enabler fork with a modified brake adapter when I get it and try to get some money refunded or see what they offer.

What other forks will work with the hub spacing?


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

AdamJay said:


> Update:
> 
> BD offered a full return on the bike, due to the fork issue. I was surprised.
> They also gave the option of waiting for an actual replacement fork to come in (though did not mention a timeframe). At first I considered the return, figuing maybe I'd put that $895 toward a Lurch or a used Mukluk, but I have built a 2nd wheelset for this FB4. With the front disc spacing hub and the odd offset in the back, it's a pretty specific wheelset to this specific bike. I decided that due to what I have invested in the bike, I'd rather keep it.
> ...


That's great Customer Service! It's pretty rare that a company pays out money for a problem. They will almost always try to settle it with a replacement part/solution.


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## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

When I sent them an email with the info about the replacement fork I got a ups return slip as a response, trying to follow up to see what else they can do. Also got the enabler fork I ordered off ebay thinking it would work, but I'll have to decide if I want to modify the brake adapter and if I could get refunded money for the fork. I'll have to mock it up and see it looked like I could get away with only taking off a few mm but then I might not get even pad wear.

Only 190lbs so it's not like the bike was really pushed hard so I'm surprised I went 0 for 2, and don't want to try a third time.


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

adw31 said:


> When I sent them an email with the info about the replacement fork I got a ups return slip as a response, trying to follow up to see what else they can do. Also got the enabler fork I ordered off ebay thinking it would work, but I'll have to decide if I want to modify the brake adapter and if I could get refunded money for the fork. I'll have to mock it up and see it looked like I could get away with only taking off a few mm but then I might not get even pad wear.
> 
> Only 190lbs so it's not like the bike was really pushed hard so I'm surprised I went 0 for 2, and don't want to try a third time.


I put my replacement fork on today; the BD customer service has been great so far. Time will tell if the new OEM fork creaks-I hope not. It's not my main ride, so I may not know for awhile.


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## cboyd1974 (Sep 7, 2012)

I Just saw this about the creaking fork. My fork was creaking Whitley at first, but after about 10 miles on gravel trails it started to get very loud. I emailed them today and got a response back right away. They offered a full return/refund but I opted for partial refund instead. Has anyone had any success with other forks yet? Maybe the on-one carbon fork?


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## coot271 (Sep 15, 2010)

watermonkey, i thought it interesting to see that the BD website removed "Bluto-ready" from the lurch description..... hmmmm. I still like the lurch, but like options with any bike. So far, moto hasn't disappointed as i have been happy with my 4 year old outcast 29er....i was so pleased in fact that i bought the new 150mm fs fantom pro! the lurch will probably come a little later.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

*Not BLUTO ready afterall?*



coot271 said:


> watermonkey, i thought it interesting to see that the BD website removed "Bluto-ready" from the lurch description..... hmmmm.
> 
> Good eye, I didn't see that. I wonder when the update happened? I asked the question on facebook along with wondering if they had a weight for an 18" Lurch (didn't expect to get a weight back). Got the non-descript standard BD answer on weight, no acknowledgment of BLUTO specs/down tube clearance. With the obvious down tube/head tube offset seen on all the BLUTO ready fatties, I just didn't believe that there was any way that crown would clear. Glad I didn't change my X9 order afterall.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

AdamJay said:


> Update:
> 
> BD offered a full return on the bike, due to the fork issue. I was surprised.
> They also gave the option of waiting for an actual replacement fork to come in (though did not mention a timeframe). At first I considered the return, figuing maybe I'd put that $895 toward a Lurch or a used Mukluk, but I have built a 2nd wheelset for this FB4. With the front disc spacing hub and the odd offset in the back, it's a pretty specific wheelset to this specific bike. I decided that due to what I have invested in the bike, I'd rather keep it.
> ...


I got my Elite not too long after you. I wonder if mine is going to do this too? Is this a weld issue?


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

Finally got my bullseye monster!










The bike went together pretty smoothly and was lighter than I expected it to be. I will publish the weight when I get around to putting it on a scale, but it was abouth the same weight as (maybe even a little less than) last year's pug.










The stem and possibly the handle bars will be replaced soon. Its way too long right now and wider bars are always a plus.









The bike had a minor scratch on the down tube from where the front rim was attached for shipping. It doesn't really bother me, but I thought it was worth mentioning.










Here's the bike next to last year's pug (14" frame). The head angle looks much steeper.










The mission on a 50mm rim next to a nate on a 65mm Marge lite. Both supposedly 4.0, although the nate seems significantly wider in addition to being much more aggressive.

First impression is that its a good start. It doesn't ride nearly as well as the pug does, but in addition to costing less than a third what the pug did, I haven't spent much time dialing it in yet. There are a lot of things im going to do to it, first I need to cut the seat post down, because even inserted as far as it will go, its still at least a full inch higher than I want it. Next will be trying to get some power out of the brakes. Even after bedding them in, they are unbearably weak. I have ridden other bikes with novelas and know that they can be much more powerful. When set up correctly they can feel as good as a bb7. I will try hitting the rotors with brake cleaner, if that doesn't work I will sand the pads down a bit. Also the rear rim is out of true and the front one has a pretty noticeable hop. it's nothing i cant fix but kinda annoying that i have to work on the wheels of a brand new bike.
I was torn between this and the Boris x9, but didn't have the means to get the more expensive bike. I will report back after putting some more miles on the bike, but so far I am a little underwhelmed. I just remind myself that it was only $500 and remember that I have nothing to complain about.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

*The LURCH, the BLUTO and fit*

On the facebook page, Bikes Direct responded to the removal of the "BLUTO ready" claim for the Lurch, and stated that " the left side clears
and right side touches dt by about 2mm; if forks is turned totally inwards." That's a real bummer. Maybe there's a BLUTO hack where the knob can be removed and the fork will still be usable and adjustable. A slacker head angle and it probably would've worked. Too bad, I think the LURCH would've looked really nice with a BLUTO on the front. I thought that AUTOCAD made design easier so there wouldn't be interference issues. However, I bet you could make it work with a Cane Creek Angle Set headset, and then you'd have a slacker head tube angle too...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Good call. I thought you were being paranoid that the Bluto had fit issues originally .


Pedaling


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

take a ball-peen hammer to the DT and make it "Bluto Ready"


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

watermonkey said:


> On the facebook page, Bikes Direct responded to the removal of the "BLUTO ready" claim for the Lurch, and stated that " the left side clears
> and right side touches dt by about 2mm; if forks is turned totally inwards." That's a real bummer. Maybe there's a BLUTO hack where the knob can be removed and the fork will still be usable and adjustable. A slacker head angle and it probably would've worked. Too bad, I think the LURCH would've looked really nice with a BLUTO on the front. I thought that AUTOCAD made design easier so there wouldn't be interference issues. However, I bet you could make it work with a Cane Creek Angle Set headset, and then you'd have a slacker head tube angle too...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


If the bike has an internal lower headset cup you could see if there was an external cup option that would work. That might buy you another ~10mm at the expense of a slacker front end.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

https://www.facebook.com/1221998643...22199864367/10153249992389368/?type=1&theater

BD on facebook is/will be selling a prototype/tester Sturgis "soon", to one person.


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## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

Decided to return the FB4, I had asked about the bikes on Facebook and was offered to upgrade to the Nighttrain, but didn't want to spend that much. I think I'll just watch for a good deal on a pugsley wheelset and build up a single speed.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

How much more is the Night Train? Just a couple hundy, right?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

What did they quote you for a price on the Nighttrain?


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

And when can I order a GD Sturgis or Night Train!?


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## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

tyriverag said:


> How much more is the Night Train? Just a couple hundy, right?


Not sure if they want the price out, but it was more than a couple hundred additional with a rigid fork and significantly more for one with a bluto. Didn't seem discounted for being the sample/photo bikes.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

I have an Fb4, first batch. So far the bike has been awesome. It creaks a bit but, not too bad. I've had a set of floaters sitting around and today, I decided to do a quick change out from my stock V missions.

Well, there is no such thing as a quick change out with these tires...OMG & WTF. This is a pain in the ass. Bent all my tire leavers.

What is the best way of installing on ones?


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Solo-Rider said:


> Well, there is no such thing as a quick change out with these tires...OMG & WTF. This is a pain in the ass. Bent all my tire leavers.
> 
> What is the best way of installing on ones?


It's that 100mm Weinmann rim.
I swapped it out for a lighter OR8 80mm drilled rim, and tires go on and off with ease.

Sucks, i know.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

AdamJay said:


> It's that 100mm Weinmann rim.
> I swapped it out for a lighter OR8 80mm drilled rim, and tires go on and off with ease.
> 
> Sucks, i know.


Thanks for the info and I guess, I'm just going have to man up and grab a crowbar. Buying a different rim is an option, I suppose but, I seen people post on here using a floater and 100mm combo. Or, I'll just contact BD, and tell them my bike exploreded going downhill. Maybe, they will offer me a full refund that ill put towards a new Sturgis.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

i have 100mm weinmann rims. both my missions and and v8 goes on by my hand. maybe yall not doing it right


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

akacoke said:


> maybe yall not doing it right


Dude, you're blowing my chances for getting a new Sturgis. Im not doing it wrong ..

yet, my V mission's go on and off just fine.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Update!

Two floaters installed. Crowbar was not needed. Front is harder to install then the rear but, they are on.

That is all.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

swapped some tires on 100mm, DHL101 and 80mm weinmann rims. non of the tires were hard to put on. goes on by hand and takes off with 2 plastic automotive trim tools from harborfreight.


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## spovegas (Oct 2, 2009)

Hi, I just started looking into the BD fatbike offerings over the last couple of days. I'm trying to figure out which ones will take 5" tires and I'm sure the answer is in this thread somewhere, but this thing is humongous. :eekster: Anyway, from what I can tell the only one with clearance for 5" tires is the Lurch. Is this right?


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

First ride with the floaters, and its a much better tire. A excellent upgrade from those stock tires.

I did get my money's worth out of them before getting the floaters. The stock tires are doable. 

Another, suprise is after I installed the new tire and put the wheel back on. No more creaking...

Not sure why but, its gone. I just put 28 miles without a sound.


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## DustinFT (Jul 7, 2014)

I'm looking to get my first fatbike and was eyeing the FB4 Comp. I tried looking at a lot of the posts and it seems like there are creaking issues, is this common? Is this a good fatbike to get, I wouldn't be doing much mountain riding?


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

DustinFT said:


> I'm looking to get my first fatbike and was eyeing the FB4 Comp. I tried looking at a lot of the posts and it seems like there are creaking issues, is this common? Is this a good fatbike to get, I wouldn't be doing much mountain riding?


I have one from the first batch. It's an outstanding bike, with no issues. I did experience some creaking...but, that must of been from the front wheel. Either too tight or something because, I installed a new set of tires and reseated the wheel and no more creaks.


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## FattyMatty (Jul 7, 2014)

Hello everyone. New guy here.
So I spent most of the weekend reading through this thread and after all that, I have a question. 
Based on experience and what seems to be a whole lot of knowledge on this forum, if you were going to spend $900, what do you think feature for feature is the best fat bike between:
Boris x9
FB4 elite
Lurch 
Sturgis

I am having a hard time deciding.
Thank you - Matt


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

FattyMatty - the Sturgis and Night Train, as far as I know are not spec'd out yet, so I am holding out for that (and prices), but if it were me, between the Boris, FB4, and Lurch, I would go with a purple Lurch. 

It honestly came down to color, lol. Otherwise, if the Sturgis or Night Train has a sick color or the Bluto-equipped price is too ridiculous to pass, I'd go that route, assuming the specs are equal to or better than the other three.


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## rdub315 (Apr 14, 2014)

Anyone know when the Sturgis and Night Train will be spec'd out and available for pre-order? They don't seem to answer anyone on the ol' FB. I'm getting impatient - maybe I'll just order the yellow Lurch. I do want to see pricing on the Bluto options, though I'm not even sure I'd go that route.


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## trailblazer29er (Apr 23, 2011)

FattyMatty said:


> Hello everyone. New guy here.
> So I spent most of the weekend reading through this thread and after all that, I have a question.
> Based on experience and what seems to be a whole lot of knowledge on this forum, if you were going to spend $900, what do you think feature for feature is the best fat bike between:
> Boris x9
> ...


I'm with Tyriverag, I'd wait for the Sturgis or Nighttrain. I already have a fatty, but depending on price, might have to pick one of these up. Buying a Bluto and equiping my Fatboy would be around $800-1000 depending on if you just swap the hub and rebuild or if you have two different wheels. It really depends on where these bikes get priced.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

FattyMatty said:


> Hello everyone. New guy here.
> So I spent most of the weekend reading through this thread and after all that, I have a question.
> Based on experience and what seems to be a whole lot of knowledge on this forum, if you were going to spend $900, what do you think feature for feature is the best fat bike between:
> Boris x9
> ...


Although the F4B was BDs, first fat bike and at the time the best deal around. However, BD has upped their game. And in my mind moved to last spot in their upper lineup.

The Boris X9 would be next on the list. Nice frame and good build.

The Lurch would be even higher. Nice frame 4130 co-mo, awesome colors along with a good build.

Next is the Night Train...carbon frame.
Unsure on price or build as of yet. However the photos I've seen on BDs Facebook page look awesome.

The best of the line would be the Surgis. Cabon frame, bluto fork...build unsure.
However, that's going put you out of the $900 range.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

Yeah, the carbon frames on Sturgis and Night Train are news to me. Somewhere in the middle of this thread, I thought there were prices, like 900ish for rigid, and 1300ish for Bluto.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Solo-Rider said:


> Next is the Night Train...*carbon frame*.
> Unsure on price or build as of yet. However the photos I've seen on BDs Facebook page look awesome.
> 
> The best of the line would be the Surgis. *Cabon frame*, bluto fork...build unsure.
> However, that's going put you out of the $900 range.


Where have you seen that these are carbon frames? The pics I have seen look like welded aluminum to me?


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

They are aluminum. He's smoking something.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

If they are not Carbon, then they are some of the best looking aluminum frames I have ever seen. 

However, I don't work here. The Night Train & Sturgis are still the best in the lineup no matter what the frame material is.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Anyone hear of an ETA when the Sturgis and Night Train would be available for purchase?


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## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

Who is naming these products? Sturgis? Night Train? Ouch.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

OnThaCouch said:


> Anyone hear of an ETA when the Sturgis and Night Train would be available for purchase?


I though some time in August. That's what think I seen on their Facebook page


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## RobKong (Jun 7, 2010)

I emailed them with questions about the sturgis, they couldn't answer any of them except that the frames are aluminum. No eta, nomprice, nothing.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

RobKong said:


> I emailed them with questions about the sturgis, they couldn't answer any of them except that the frames are aluminum. No eta, nomprice, nothing.


At this point in time some of the information is out. It's just in small bits around here or FB.

Things could of changed as they do. So what was posted before may not be correct.

Last, I seen posted was August. The build of those two have yet to be posted anywhere.


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## FattyMatty (Jul 7, 2014)

Thanks everyone for your feedback. 
I'm hoping they don't change the price on the Lurch before they announce the specs and price on the Sturgis and Night train.
Part of me just wants to pull the trigger now, but I know I should wait.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

FattyMatty said:


> Thanks everyone for your feedback.
> I'm hoping they don't change the price on the Lurch before they announce the specs and price on the Sturgis and Night train.
> Part of me just wants to pull the trigger now, but I know I should wait.


The lurch and the Sturgis seem to be two different animals. So, I guess, it comes down to what are you looking for in a fat bike?

The Lurch with its 4130 frame, fork brazons looks to be a more expedition style fatty.

You also have a lot more color choices.

The Night Train and Sturgis are more of a mondern design.


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## rajcoont (Jun 19, 2014)

FattyMatty said:


> Thanks everyone for your feedback.
> I'm hoping they don't change the price on the Lurch before they announce the specs and price on the Sturgis and Night train.
> Part of me just wants to pull the trigger now, but I know I should wait.


 Seems like as good a time as any for my first post&#8230;.I am in the same position as you and was about to buy a lurch, but now am waiting for the sturgis based on looking at the limited pics and info and thinking the clearance on the lurch looks like it may be unlikely to get a skinnier 29er or 29+ tire build on them: i think these will both be heavy and the steel frame is not enough incentive to me to carry another couple pounds of weight&#8230;.there's a ton of fatties coming up this fall for reasonable prices and i'm waiting for everyone to show their hand before i make my decision, at the moment i'm thinking i'll go sturgis, but waiting for Bikes Direct/Framed/Norco/ and many others to show the 2015 line in full before i make the jump. saving $100 on a lurch now when i find out it can't fit the second set of wheels i need to put on it (this will me my daily commuter besides my winter fatty) means it's not really a savings at all&#8230;.think this is a good time to be patient!


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

^^^or go with a proven build now like the Boris at a reasonable price. Then, hopefully, in a year or two when the BLUTO issue is settled out and there are other suspension options, my wife will have liked riding the Boris X9 enough that it can become hers and I'll get some suspended multi season go everywhere 5+ inch uber fatty. I don't think BD will release too much on the Sturgis/Night train line until they have shipped many of the Boris (mid August) and Gravity bikes they have in house now.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

ultraspontane said:


> Who is naming these products? Sturgis? Night Train? Ouch.


I believe they are naming them in a similar/complementary fashion with other fat bikes:

Pugsley - Lurch
Fatboy - Night Train, Sturgis


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

akacoke said:


> swapped some tires on 100mm, DHL101 and 80mm weinmann rims. non of the tires were hard to put on. goes on by hand and takes off with 2 plastic automotive trim tools from harborfreight.


I'm referring to the FB4 stock DHL100. Many FB4 owners and their LBSs will tell you it is no fun to mount a tire on, many will even say it is the hardest rim they have ever mounted.

My DHL80 and HL80 are completely different beasts though. No tools required, at all.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

*SE Racing [email protected] Fat Bike*

Maybe I didn't look hard enough on the thread but I didn't see the new SE Racing [email protected] bike. Seeing as BD is selling it we should be able to discuss it here.

[email protected] - Mountain Series, Lifestyle Bikes | SEBikes.com


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

CS2 said:


> Maybe I didn't look hard enough on the thread but I didn't see the new SE Racing [email protected] bike. Seeing as BD is selling it we should be able to discuss it here.
> 
> BD jumped right in and didn't mess around.
> [email protected] - Mountain Series, Lifestyle Bikes | SEBikes.com


It has been posted in this thread before. I guess, no real decussion about it because, its basically a Motobecane FB4.

Its amazing how many fatbike models Bikes Direct, carries under its wing. It would be safe to say, more then anyone. Along, with covering just about every price point.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

Solo-Rider said:


> It has been posted in this thread before. I guess, no real decussion about it because, its basically a Motobecane FB4.
> 
> Its amazing how many fatbike models Bikes Direct, carries under its wing. It would be safe to say, more then anyone. Along, with covering just about every price point.


Thanks for the heads up Solo-Rider. The way the trade publications made it out to be a new bike. How's that Moto actually did something first and were copied.


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## RocktonRider (Nov 30, 2010)

CS2 said:


> How's that Moto actually did something first and were copied.


See post #82 and other posts in this thread by "Espen W": the FB4 and SE bikes are copies of another bike. Diamant / Nakamura ? Mammut / BigBob Prototype(s) ? Norwegian Fatness! | FAT-BIKE.COM


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## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

Got my refund today for the FB4 since there weren't many options for a new fork. Overall customer service was ok and I had expected some cut corners on the bike, just was hoping for a solid frame, fork and wheels. I liked the bike fit and rode well, components worked good for the price level. Too bad it didn't hold up.



CS2 said:


> Thanks for the heads up Solo-Rider. The way the trade publications made it out to be a new bike. How's that Moto actually did something first and were copied.


Both the SE and the Motobecane are copied versions of the Diamant/Nakamura fat bikes from Norway.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

*Posted on BD's Facebook today.*

Fat Bike Wheel Options: This fall we will be getting several options for Fat Bikes in alternative wheels.
Including a 29er set from Gravity with 170mm rear for about $149 including tires.

Gravity 26x4.0 wheelset with Vee8 tires will be available to fit on new Bullseye 29+ and Bullseye 27.5+ for about $199.

Also Motobecane will have FAN29 190/150 wheelset with WTB TCS tubeless compatabale rims, Bronson 29x2.2 tires, and Novatec Precision Bearing 190rr / 150 frt hubs for about $249.

We will be trying to get Sturgis Bullet framesets, Sturgis Wheels sets, and Boris the Evil Brut [gold ano] wheelsets.

For now, we are focused on ways to make Fat Bikes more versatile [one reason the BULLSEYE MONSTER has 50mm rim so buyers can use 26x2.0 commuter tires or any assorted ATB 26" tires if they like]. Any ideas for assorted types of wheels are welcome; and we will see what we can do.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bikesdirect/122199864367


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

*boris sizing*

ok, i have been agonizing over this for a month. I am hoping some current Boris X9 owners can chime in. I have read through this thread looking for info and only found one post that didn't give any specifics. i have done my research but I would really appreciate any feedback current owners can offer. TIA

so here is my dilemma, I'm stuck between the large (19") frame and the XL (21"). I'm 6'3" with 34.5 inseam 210 lbs average build.

my current ride is a large 20" Airborne Guardian 2.0. effective TT 24.5 inches. same as the large 19" Boris. since i got the bike i have shortened the stem 2.5 cm or 1". i have also moved the seat all the way forward and am about to put a non-offset seatpost on it in order to more easily get over the back of the seat for steep descents. this is a big frame!

so i thought the 19" Boris would work best for me, just to be sure i e-mailed BD to get their opinion and they recommended the XL 21" frame and said "some personal preference is involved." I want to take their advice but i think i am better off with a Large. I am way at the bottom end of the spectrum of the XL frame. 6'3"-6'7".

I looked at the KHS website and compared the frame geometry info to my current bike and the Large (20") Pugsley which i have rented twice and found to be just a bit too small. the Pugsley is a much smaller frame though.

anyway could someone compare my size with their own and tell me their impression of the Boris they are riding.

I am eager to place my order. i just missed the last production run and am jealous of all my friends on their fat bikes!

I am including geometry specs for the three bikes i mentioned so maybe it will help someone else down the road. specs in this order... KHS (Boris), Airborne Guardian, Surly Pugsley. thanks!

View attachment 906994
View attachment 906995
View attachment 906996


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

BENKD29 said:


> ok, i have been agonizing over this for a month. I am hoping some current Boris X9 owners can chime in. I have read through this thread looking for info and only found one post that didn't give any specifics. i have done my research but I would really appreciate any feedback current owners can offer. TIA
> 
> so here is my dilemma, I'm stuck between the large (19") frame and the XL (21"). I'm 6'3" with 34.5 inseam 210 lbs average build.
> 
> ...


I have the X9 15". I'm 5'9" with a 30" inseam and short arms. I installed a 400mm seat post and use every bit of it, plus I put on a riser headset. I found the reach to be fairly long, but the stand over height is great. I'm happy that I got the 15" over the 17", so I hope that helps you out a bit. Overall I like the bike. Only fatbike I've ridden though so you'll have to take it for what experience I have. I chose the Boris for the standover and upgraded parts and have no complaints on anything.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

thanks for the reply. so you went down a size from what is recommended on the chart. thats encouraging as i am still leaning toward the 19.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

I think the old adage "Size by reach, not TT" applies here. Of course Airborne apparently doesn't list reach. However, the XL Pugs has a shorter reach than a Lg Boris. It sounds like you prefer a shorter bike given the mods you've done to the Guardian and I know from experience that BD seems to size bikes for a pretty stretched fit. Given all that, I'd go LG. Worst case you're talking a 10 mm difference in reach between XL and LG. Meaning, a 10 mm longer stem or a wider bar will give you the XL fit on the LG.


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

I'm 6'1", 190 lbs, about 35" inseam, long arms, somewhat shorter torso for my height... I bought the 19". I'm using a lot of seatpost, longer/higher stem, and riser bars. I'm not sure I like what the longer stem and higher bar does to the handling, but I feel like I got the right fit. I also feel like I could probably fit the bigger frame. Here's a pic of the bike the way I have it set up-


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

car_nut said:


> I think the old adage "Size by reach, not TT" applies here. Of course Airborne apparently doesn't list reach. However, the XL Pugs has a shorter reach than a Lg Boris. It sounds like you prefer a shorter bike given the mods you've done to the Guardian and I know from experience that BD seems to size bikes for a pretty stretched fit. Given all that, I'd go LG. Worst case you're talking a 10 mm difference in reach between XL and LG. Meaning, a 10 mm longer stem or a wider bar will give you the XL fit on the LG.


interesting, i have never heard of sizing by reach instead of top tube. I have always heard effective top tube is the single most important measurement when sizing. I will have to measure the reach of my current ride. and the difference in reach is 12mm, a minor difference but i get your point. good stuff.



mikeymon1 said:


> I'm 6'1", 190 lbs, about 35" inseam, long arms, somewhat shorter torso for my height... I bought the 19". I'm using a lot of seatpost, longer/higher stem, and riser bars. I'm not sure I like what the longer stem and higher bar does to the handling, but I feel like I got the right fit. I also feel like I could probably fit the bigger frame. Here's a pic of the bike the way I have it set up-
> 
> this is the second time i have heard someone shorter than me say they could imagine riding the bigger bike. this only adds to my confusion. I understand using a lot of seatpost and the raised bars. ugh, back and forth i go. sweet pic, looks like an awesome place to ride.


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

> this is the second time i have heard someone shorter than me say they could imagine riding the bigger bike. this only adds to my confusion. I understand using a lot of seatpost and the raised bars. ugh, back and forth i go. sweet pic, looks like an awesome place to ride.


If you like the way your Airborne fits, and it most closely matches the LG Boris... I'd say go with that. The fact that you shortened your stem seems to be the decider... I went all the the way to a 120mm/17* stem (I had one on hand...), which would seem to suggest that you like a more compact cockpit than I do.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

adw31 said:


> Both the SE and the Motobecane are copied versions of the Diamant/Nakamura fat bikes from Norway.


Did they all just order from the same vendor? It's hard to justify $1,700 for a Pugsley when this is $500 less.


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## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

Espen W had said in an earlier thread that their bikes, the SE and FB4 were all from the same facory.



CS2 said:


> Did they all just order from the same vendor? It's hard to justify $1,700 for a Pugsley when this is $500 less.


After buying one, I see it as you get what you pay for. To me after pricing everything out the cheap wheels, hubs, and tires are where most of the cost comes from. The FB4 comp was functional, if the fork had held up or I could have gotten a replacement I would have kept it. Now since I know I will ride one, it would have been worth it to just build a pugsley or other frameset from the start.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

Question, as I've been bouncing around between potential fatties (2014 muk 3, fatboy, and Moto NT, Sturgis, or Luch)...I've ridden the muk, like it, not the FB or obviously Motos.

My hardtail 29er is a 2013 Spec Rockhopper Base. Solid entry level MTB. In shopping around a lot with that budget, I chose that one because I felt awesome on top of it. I know the specs aren't awesome, and I've ridden a $6k full squish and yeah, there's obviously a ride difference, but no real need to upgrade.

My question is for those that might know or have experience, would me purchasing a Moto bike above be an apt comparison or equivalent:

With the Moto being similar/equivalent to my Spec RH 29er and a much nicer 29er being equivalent to the Fatboy (or in a lesser way, the Muk)?


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## RobKong (Jun 7, 2010)

mikeymon1 said:


> I'm 6'1", 190 lbs, about 35" inseam, long arms, somewhat shorter torso for my height... I bought the 19". I'm using a lot of seatpost, longer/higher stem, and riser bars. I'm not sure I like what the longer stem and higher bar does to the handling, but I feel like I got the right fit. I also feel like I could probably fit the bigger frame. Here's a pic of the bike the way I have it set up-
> 
> View attachment 907064


35" measured inseam, or pants inseam?

Also, where was that pic taken? Looks very similar to a climb just south of me in western MT...


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Did you guys with the creaking forks ever figure out if there was an aftermarket fork that would fit the FB4? I have not ridden my FB4 yet so don't know if there is any creaking or not. 
My orange FB4 seems to be a pretty nice bike. I am building it up with some nice spare parts I had leftover and just ordered some colored Floaters for it. I will ride it later in the fall before winter hits. I am sure I will like it. I can already tell though that I'd probably want to upgrade the frame later at some point to something that can take a Bluto. I read somewhere that BD plans on selling some fat framesets, so that is something I might look into down the road.


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## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

Nail Every Trail said:


> Did you guys with the creaking forks ever figure out if there was an aftermarket fork that would fit the FB4? I have not ridden my FB4 yet so don't know if there is any creaking or not.
> My orange FB4 seems to be a pretty nice bike. I am building it up with some nice spare parts I had leftover and just ordered some colored Floaters for it. I will ride it later in the fall before winter hits. I am sure I will like it. I can already tell though that I'd probably want to upgrade the frame later at some point to something that can take a Bluto. I read somewhere that BD plans on selling some fat framesets, so that is something I might look into down the road.


White brothers snowpack fork would work. On-one, Surly and salsa forks will not.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Thankfully, what I thought was a creaking coming from my fork, was not. It must of been something to do with my front wheel. It must of shifted going down a toboggan hill on my normal run. I changed out to some floaters and reinstalled the wheels. Creaking was totlly gone.

I'm glad for that. I have one of from the first batch and this bike is holding up beautifully.


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## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

Posted on Bikesdirect Facebook page:
"Specialized Fatboy is Aluminum frame with Tektro brakes and Sram X7 for $2,000. Sturgis Bullet with Bluto will be on special sale $1299 for prepay orders Which is the better deal?"
Like · 5 hours ago
"Bikesdirect Sturgis / Nighttrain with and without Bluto go on presale any day now"
Like · 2 · 5 hours ago


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

RobKong said:


> 35" measured inseam, or pants inseam?
> 
> Also, where was that pic taken? Looks very similar to a climb just south of me in western MT...


Measured, bare feet. I can stand over a yard stick in shoes.
The pic is on Maroon Creek Road, just outside of Aspen. Pyramid Peak in the background, one of our local 14'ers.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Kickngas said:


> Posted on Bikesdirect Facebook page:
> "Specialized Fatboy is Aluminum frame with Tektro brakes and Sram X7 for $2,000. Sturgis Bullet with Bluto will be on special sale $1299 for prepay orders Which is the better deal?"
> Like · 5 hours ago
> "Bikesdirect Sturgis / Nighttrain with and without Bluto go on presale any day now"
> Like · 2 · 5 hours ago


Where did you see this? For some reason I can't find it on their Facebook page.


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

BENKD29 said:


> ok, i have been agonizing over this for a month. I am hoping some current Boris X9 owners can chime in. I have read through this thread looking for info and only found one post that didn't give any specifics. i have done my research but I would really appreciate any feedback current owners can offer. TIA
> 
> so here is my dilemma, I'm stuck between the large (19") frame and the XL (21"). I'm 6'3" with 34.5 inseam 210 lbs average build.
> 
> ...


Based upon your specs I agree with BD in suggesting the 21". I'm 6'2" and 34ish inseam and the 21" fits me great. However it sounds like you may have shorter upper body or a little less reach than me. Since your other bike is also an online bike is this your only bike to compare to? If there are other bikes what are the specs on those? If the Guardian is the only bike you have to compare to I would speculate that it's to small and without time on other bikes you don't know any different. I started out on a 19" Iron Horse and thought it fit me great, I now ride 21" frames and chose the Boris because it was the only fatbike available with a long tt.

I'd suggest if you have anyway to spend some time on a larger frame do so. You might find that BD is right in their 21" recommendation. If not go with the frame the you feel works better for you personally which is the 19".


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## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

Negotiator50 said:


> Where did you see this? For some reason I can't find it on their Facebook page.


It is in the post where you see the Night Train Bullet pic. Some guy named Nathan Sleyster commented on the post and then asked the question everyone wants to know in the replies.


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## PerraHunter (Nov 3, 2013)

I think the old adage " Size by stand over height" also applies here. How are you going to ride the bike? For bike paths and rail trails you might want to size like a road bike (go larger), but if you ride difficult and gnarly trails, go smaller. A full 3 inches of stand over height disappears instantly when you have to get off unexpectedly, half way over a rock wall. 

Have you ever found yourself perched on the cross bar with your toes barely touching the ground, waiting to see which way the bike will tip? Consider your riding style and trail type when choosing the frame size.


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## chuck732 (Jul 29, 2010)

I'm lost here on the sizing. I was looking at the Gravity Monster and the sizes don't give stand over. As for reach I can fix that with stems and handle bars. So how do you pick a size? I'm 6' and in seam is 29"


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## grejji (Apr 25, 2010)

Has anyone tried to fit a Bud an Lou on their Boris yet? I did some quick measurements and calcs using the true tire size thread:

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/true-tire-size-thread-894949.html

I think they could technically fit but it would be TIGHT. something like 1/8" or less of clearance.

Has anyone done it?


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

PerraHunter said:


> I think the old adage " Size by stand over height" also applies here.


Have you even looked at a picture of the Boris, and its frame design? Standover is not the issue here-


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

AdamJay said:


> View attachment 903698
> 
> 
> ^^ This is what happens when BD sends you an Enabler fork to replace your creaking FB4 Elite fork, even after you tell them that the enabler is incompatible due to disc brake spacing standards, and even after they said they "tested it with a FB4 elite front wheel and it worked and adjusted fine with a side mount 180mm front bracket."
> ...


There are plenty of lower profile mounting brackets out there.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

RocktonRider said:


> See post #82 and other posts in this thread by "Espen W": the FB4 and SE bikes are copies of another bike. Diamant / Nakamura ? Mammut / BigBob Prototype(s) ? Norwegian Fatness! | FAT-BIKE.COM


Yeah, this is one of those frames that's getting around. Because Fuji, is also selling a fatbike with the same frame and components. So, that's Motobecane, Diamant & Mammut, SE and Fuji.

That's a lot of bikes being sold. Interesting fact, they all share the same componets, same builds. I wonder what the numbers all totalled sold would be.

In the end, the Motobecane FB4, is a good bike. However, these new fatbikes are going to Rock!



THE Sturgis!



THE Night Train!

*"2015 4.5 version of VeeRubber Snow Shoe tires will be coming on the new Motobecane Sturgis, Sturgis Bullet, Night Train, Night Train Bullet."

*_Information from Bikes Direct's Facebook, page._


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

thank you to all who have replied so far, it is much appreciated!



finny1999 said:


> Based upon your specs I agree with BD in suggesting the 21". I'm 6'2" and 34ish inseam and the 21" fits me great. However it sounds like you may have shorter upper body or a little less reach than me. Since your other bike is also an online bike is this your only bike to compare to? If there are other bikes what are the specs on those? If the Guardian is the only bike you have to compare to I would speculate that it's to small and without time on other bikes you don't know any different. I started out on a 19" Iron Horse and thought it fit me great, I now ride 21" frames and chose the Boris because it was the only fatbike available with a long tt.
> 
> I'd suggest if you have anyway to spend some time on a larger frame do so. You might find that BD is right in their 21" recommendation. If not go with the frame the you feel works better for you personally which is the 19".


good info, I hear what you are saying. the Airborne is the only other bike i own, but i've sat on a few friends bikes, and rented the large (20") pugsley which was a bit too small. just today i had my LBS guy take some measurements of my frame compared to his and if anything this frame is just a little too large for the type of riding i do, more on that in a sec.



PerraHunter said:


> I think the old adage " Size by stand over height" also applies here. How are you going to ride the bike? For bike paths and rail trails you might want to size like a road bike (go larger), but if you ride difficult and gnarly trails, go smaller. A full 3 inches of stand over height disappears instantly when you have to get off unexpectedly, half way over a rock wall.
> 
> Have you ever found yourself perched on the cross bar with your toes barely touching the ground, waiting to see which way the bike will tip? Consider your riding style and trail type when choosing the frame size.


I ride pretty challenging terrain. roots, logs, drops, steep climbs, mud, you name it. I'm in upstate NY. I have never failed to get at least one foot down when getting off the bike quickly... yet, but i get your point. I will have plenty of clearance with either frame, although the fact that the TT comes to a point instead of being flat/square on top does worry me a little.

I ride pretty aggressively and plan to use the bike all summer and all winter. I ride with a group of guys who are pretty hard core year round riders so this bike will have to be a "do it all" setup.

so here is the current score. 3 votes for the XL frame, 2 votes for the L frame. but I'm still leaning toward the L, and my vote counts as 2. thanks again!


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## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

So, Solo....when are they going on sale or pre-sale??


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Kickngas said:


> So, Solo....when are they going on sale or pre-sale??


Well, according to a BD post on their Facebook page. This was to a potential customer...

_*"Sturgis / Nighttrain with and without Bluto go on presale any day now."*_


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

THE Night Train!

"2015 4.5 version of VeeRubber Snow Shoe tires will be coming on the new Motobecane Sturgis, Sturgis Bullet, Night Train, Night Train Bullet." 

Information from Bikes Direct's Facebook, page.

Any ideas on what's the "Bullet" version of the Sturgis and Night Train? I thought the Sturgis was the rigid and the Night Train came with the Bluto fork.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

OnThaCouch said:


> THE Night Train!
> 
> "2015 4.5 version of VeeRubber Snow Shoe tires will be coming on the new Motobecane Sturgis, Sturgis Bullet, Night Train, Night Train Bullet."
> 
> ...


From what I can make out. It looks like this...

The Bullet version of the Sturgis & Night Train are the ones with the Bluto fork. That would leave me to assume that the difference between the Sturgis & Night Train would be their overall build.

That's how I see it being played.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Thank you for your keep powers of observation (mine, apparently, not so much ) I didn't notice the Sturgis and Night Train pics above both having the rigid fork. I agree, that the Bullet is probably the Bluto version and the spec package will probably be the difference between the two models.

Looking forward to seeing the price point they come out with on the Bluto equipped models.



Solo-Rider said:


> From what I can make out. It looks like this...
> 
> The Bullet version of the Sturgis & Night Train are the ones with the Bluto fork. That would leave me to assume that the difference between the Sturgis & Night Train would be their overall build. With the Sturgis Bullet being top dog in the line up.
> 
> That's how I see being played.


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## rdub315 (Apr 14, 2014)

Solo-Rider said:


> From what I can make out. It looks like this...
> 
> The Bullet version of the Sturgis & Night Train are the ones with the Bluto fork. That would leave me to assume that the difference between the Sturgis & Night Train would be their overall build. With the Sturgis Bullet being top dog in the line up.
> 
> That's how I see it being played.


The Night Train is going to be the top dog. I expect the Bluto version to be priced at 1799. Just my personal guess.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

OnThaCouch said:


> Thank you for your keep powers of observation (mine, apparently, not so much ) I didn't notice the Sturgis and Night Train pics above both having the rigid fork. I agree, that the Bullet is probably the Bluto version and the spec package will probably be the difference between the two models.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing the price point they come out with on the Bluto equipped models.


Last bit of information I can find, unless I dig deeper. However, the only price I seen posted was for the Sturgis Bullet being sold $1299

Kudos to BD!


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

rdub315 said:


> The Night Train is going to be the top dog. I expect the Bluto version to be priced at 1799. Just my personal guess.


Since, I really dont know the builds on either one. To my knowledge BD, have never posted any so, you maybe correct.

I edited my last two post. Don't want to give inaccurate information. The only price I know of for sure is for the Sturgis Bullet, that's going for $1299.

The Night Train Buillet, Sturgis and Night Train. As to their price points, I have no real information.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Early on on the bd fb page they estimated sturgis at 899. Sturgis bullet at 1199. Night train at 1099 and night train bullet for 1399. 

But they now claim on fb the special prepaid presales price will be $1299. So already a $100 price hike before they even launch. But still a good price depending on what the actual final spec is.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

neons97 said:


> Early on on the bd fb page they estimated sturgis at 899. Sturgis bullet at 1199. Night train at 1099 and night train bullet for 1399.
> 
> But they now claim on fb the special prepaid presales price will be $1299. So already a $100 price hike before they even launch. But still a good price depending on what the actual final spec is.


Let's hope the reasoning behind the price hike was for a higher component build. But, it does seem BD may have too many fatbike's models overlapping each other on price point.

So, turning it up a couple notches should be a good thing.


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## finny1999 (Aug 11, 2007)

BENKD29 said:


> thank you to all who have replied so far, it is much appreciated!
> 
> good info, I hear what you are saying. the Airborne is the only other bike i own, but i've sat on a few friends bikes, and rented the large (20") pugsley which was a bit too small. just today i had my LBS guy take some measurements of my frame compared to his and if anything this frame is just a little too large for the type of riding i do, more on that in a sec.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you already have your mind made up. I think on paper your an XL rider, however the Boris does have a long tt. Beyond a longer seatpost and a lot of post exposed I don't think you'll have any real issues riding a 19". From what I recall earlier in this thread there were guys with similar measurements that made the 19"Moto work for them. I ride similar terrain in Central PA, so don't let the terrain dictate you should be riding a smaller bike. As far as standover some ppl feel this is important, others don't. Personally I have a 29" ss hardtail with maybe 1/2" standover clearance and have never had an issue with contact on dismount.

This does tie back to one downfall of buying online, you need to know what measurements work for you and how you ride and nobody else can tell you that. I bought most my bikes online but all my purchases are based upon logged measurements of current/past bikes. While i'm the farthest from a LBS advocate (primarily because all shops are 25+ miles away), this is where time demoing and trying different bikes really becomes helpful.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

BENKD29 said:


> ok, i have been agonizing over this for a month. I am hoping some current Boris X9 owners can chime in. I have read through this thread looking for info and only found one post that didn't give any specifics. i have done my research but I would really appreciate any feedback current owners can offer. TIA
> 
> so here is my dilemma, I'm stuck between the large (19") frame and the XL (21"). I'm 6'3" with 34.5 inseam 210 lbs average build.


I'm 6' 2" 210lbs riding weight, about 34" inseam and I have a 19" FB4 Elite. I would not want to go any bigger. It's perfect for me. I like to be able to bail fast and don't want too big of a bike. Especially in snow which is what I bought it for. For my Stumpy FS I also ride a 19". It just seems to work the best for me. You are slightly taller so I can see that you'd be on the border of a 21".


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

I've been trying to get the rear shifting perfect but can't. It's close. Today I used the tension adjustment to get the derailleur to line up with the smallest cog, but when I shifted to the largest cog, the chain went a little too far and I had to use the limiting screw to get it to stop making noise. Shifts ok now but still not perfect. Should I have to use the limiting screw to make that derailleur line up with the largest cog perfectly? Seems like a band aide.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

H L is there for you to line up the big and small cogs, once thats done, micro adjust with barrel adjuster. there is plenty videos on youtube about adjusting rear der. if nothing works, you might wanna get the deraileur hanger adjusted. some of them come out of factory bent. some frame is not perfectly aligned so its better to get der hanger adjusted.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

I'm a little late to the party. Is this a 2015 X9? I hate gloss, the matte if the X7 looks way better. Any issues with the bike so far? Seems like the FB4 has some. Boris frame looks pretty straightforward compared to some of the others.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

siv said:


> I'm a little late to the party. Is this a 2015 X9? I hate gloss, the matte if the X7 looks way better. Any issues with the bike so far? Seems like the FB4 has some. Boris frame looks pretty straightforward compared to some of the others.


We all share the same forum.

So, if there were any, you would of seen some post about it. People don't wait to be asked if they have issues...just saying. Lol 

As for the FB4 having some. I own that bike and, I don't have any issues with it and i really ride that thing. When you think about, this bike is sold as a Motobecane, Fuji, SC and Diamant & Mammut. That's a lot of bikes...Also, they all are sold with the same components and builds. That would lead me to think if there where any real issue with that bike. It be acrossed the board, throughout all of the brand's.

Well, it seems logical.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

I have the 2014 Boris X9. Very pleased, no problems. The finish on the bike is good. I don't mind the Gloss Black, in fact I now like it better than the Matte. The stand over is primarily what turned me from the FB4, but the upgrade in parts was a very good move. Brakes are great, no need for hydraulic. Need to adjust the rear derailleur, or should I say fine tune it.

In my opinion it's a great looking bike. I much prefer it to a straight top tube, but that's my taste. The profile makes the tires really stand out and the bike more like a custom frame.



siv said:


> I'm a little late to the party. Is this a 2015 X9? I hate gloss, the matte if the X7 looks way better. Any issues with the bike so far? Seems like the FB4 has some. Boris frame looks pretty straightforward compared to some of the others.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Anyone know or have word on whether or not the Sturgis and Night Train will fit a 29+ wheelset?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

*doubtful*



OnThaCouch said:


> Anyone know or have word on whether or not the Sturgis and Night Train will fit a 29+ wheelset?


If they can't figure out how to make a BLUTO fit on a Bluto ready Lurch, then I doubt their engineers are autocad savy enough to build a frame that will take a 29 + wheel.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

How are the wheels? Are they noticeably weaker than say a Surly Darryl? I plan to hit the PA trails with and without snow, lots of rocks here.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

siv said:


> How are the wheels? Are they noticeably weaker than say a Surly Darryl? I plan to hit the PA trails with and without snow, lots of rocks here.


I'm a light weight and not a maniac so I would have to defer to some of the heavier guys to weigh in on weight.

They have not proven to be any problem for me.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

I have been flogging my bullseye monster on all sorts of terrain for weeks now. Its holding up like a champ. The wheels have been through hell and back and I havent had a single problem. Im not sure where the benchmark for strength is, but I can tell you they arent weak.


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## chuck732 (Jul 29, 2010)

I cannot tell you never replied to pm's!



dirtdawg21892 said:


> I have been flogging my bullseye monster on all sorts of terrain for weeks now. Its holding up like a champ. The wheels have been through hell and back and I havent had a single problem. Im not sure where the benchmark for strength is, but I can tell you they arent weak.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

OnThaCouch said:


> Anyone know or have word on whether or not the Sturgis and Night Train will fit a 29+ wheelset?


The definitive answer is "we don't know". :madman:

Messaged BD on FB and was referred to their email contact person...so I sent an email and it appears that the folks selling the bikes have no info on the specs of the bikes that are coming out in the fall. They referred me to FB and twitter for the most current info :skep:.

Alas, more waiting. Looking for a 190 rear spaced bike with thru axles, tapered HT that can fit a Bluto, and can do 29+. Is there such a fat bike?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

OnThaCouch said:


> Looking for a 190 rear spaced bike with thru axles, tapered HT that can fit a Bluto, and can do 29+. Is there such a fat bike?


If you can give up the through axle in the back, Fatboy meets your requirements.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

I hit my front rim very hard going down a hill pretty fast. Pinch flat but no problem at all with the rim. They're tough. I'm 210 so not a light weight.

I gotta say that I'm not a fan of no suspension bikes on rocky terrain. I've taken my fat out in summer and it's not for me. Snow only.


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## wrecognize (Dec 30, 2013)

I weigh 235 without gear and ride pretty aggressive, no issues with the wheels. Besides being heavy there pretty solid.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I just got my medium moto comp FB4. It came without a scratch on the paint, perfectly adjusted brakes and shifters. The rear tire was flat, and I still need to fix the tube, but it stays full enough for a couple hours of riding.

I ride it down rough gravel roads, and through some poorly developed forest downhill trails. I am a bigger guy than most, 290 this week, but the bike is perfect.

I have been riding my new trek for most of the year, but the ride on this moto is so very different, it inspires and enables me to do much more.

It has held up well in my short term of ownership, I hope this bodes well for its durability.
I can't say enough good things about this bike.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Seems to be like the Canadian Tire store, where they will jack up the price then put it on sale. Plus I have no clue about these brands of bicycle, are these no-name brands?


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Thanks for the replies about the wheels guys. Now I'm trying to figure out the difference between the Sturgis and the Night Train, and what does Bullet mean? Wish they would put some info up on their site.


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Whatever framesets they come out with in the near future, I'd only consider them if they were Bluto compatible. I have an FB4 right now, but plan on using it only for the snow. The places I ride in the summer are to rocky, rooty, technical for riding rigid I think. I'm used to my full suspension. I will probably end up buying a Bluto ready frameset down the road ( next summer) and swap my components on the FB4 to that.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

siv, that's what we're all waiting for! I think it's been confirmed that Bullet means Bluto.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

siv said:


> Thanks for the replies about the wheels guys. Now I'm trying to figure out the difference between the Sturgis and the Night Train, and what does Bullet mean? Wish they would put some info up on their site.


From what I can gather (others please correct me if I have it wrong), the Sturgis and Night Train will share the same frame (Al, hydroformed tubes, Bluto ready, 190 thru axle rear). The "Bullet" portion of the name means it is the Bluto equipped model.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

OnThaCouch said:


> From what I can gather (others please correct me if I have it wrong), the Sturgis and Night Train will share the same frame (Al, hydroformed tubes, Bluto ready, 190 thru axle rear). The "Bullet" portion of the name means it is the Bluto equipped model.


I believe the only difference is that one is steel and the other aluminum if I'm not mistaken.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

Ha, so much speculation about Night Train and Sturgis. I thought Lurch was the steel model. 

When BD posted what I presume to be NT and Sturgis pics (one orange, one black), I figured one is just better spec'd than the other, or less likely, just color as the differentiator. Note there is a complete absence of specs for either right now.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Night Train I found says Bluto ready and comes XT instead of X9, both say Kinesis frame whatever that means. They look the same to me though.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

tyriverag said:


> Ha, so much speculation about Night Train and Sturgis. I thought Lurch was the steel model.
> 
> When BD posted what I presume to be NT and Sturgis pics (one orange, one black), I figured one is just better spec'd than the other, or less likely, just color as the differentiator. Note there is a complete absence of specs for either right now.


I have been emailing back and forth with BD sales folks trying to get some info on the specs and it looks like* (updated)...* there should be some solid info coming out in the next week or so :thumbsup:.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

we're live!

Save Up To 60% Off Fat Bikes and Fat Mountain Bicycles from bikesdirect.com FREE Ship 48 States


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Kickngas said:


> Done. Pre-Ordered a 17.5 Sturgis in Orange!


Can you help me out. Which color is the orange? All I see is Gold Digger, Metal Flake Red and White.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

Done. Pre-Ordered a 17.5 Sturgis in Orange!


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

Lolwut!?!? ^^^


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

Mine is the original 2014 Boris as well. I like the gloss black... decent paint job, too-


Bumpyride said:


> I have the 2014 Boris X9. Very pleased, no problems. The finish on the bike is good. I don't mind the Gloss Black, in fact I now like it better than the Matte. The stand over is primarily what turned me from the FB4, but the upgrade in parts was a very good move. Brakes are great, no need for hydraulic. Need to adjust the rear derailleur, or should I say fine tune it.
> 
> In my opinion it's a great looking bike. I much prefer it to a straight top tube, but that's my taste. The profile makes the tires really stand out and the bike more like a custom frame.


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

With the $100 jump in price on the Sturgis, and the upgrades on the NightTrain (120 tpi tires, SRAM Guide brakes, X9 RD) I went with the Midnight Purple NightTrain. Seemed like a better value, plus I couldn't pass up the purple.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Hmmm... makes the Lurch seem like a better value to me. For an extra bill, the Sturgis has thru axles but a lower end drivetrain and Tektro brakes. The Bullet versions seem worthwhile since I doubt a Bluto can be had anywhere else cheaper.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

I'm considering the Boris more now for the money. I'd really like thru axles though, bigger tires are sexy too. Hmmmm...


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

Am I missing something? I can't find the Knight Train or the Sturgis. Someone send me a link please?


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## RobKong (Jun 7, 2010)

Boris X9 still seems to be the best bet to me. I was leaning that way before, now I'm pretty sure. Is there something I'm missing on the Boris vs Night Train/Sturgis?


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

RobKong said:


> Boris X9 still seems to be the best bet to me. I was leaning that way before, now I'm pretty sure. Is there something I'm missing on the Boris vs Night Train/Sturgis?


Bigger tires, thru axles, 190/150 mm hubs and Bluto ready is what I see.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Xpcgamer said:


> Am I missing something? I can't find the Knight Train or the Sturgis. Someone send me a link please?


*Standard Sturgis*

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/fat-bikes-sturgis-fatbikes.htm

_*
Sturgis Bullet*_

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/fat-bikes-sturgisbullet-fatbikes.htm

_*Standard Night Train*_

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/fat-bikes-nighttrain-fatbike.htm

_*Night Train Bullet*_

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/fat-bikes-nighttrain-bluto-fatbike.htm


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

RobKong said:


> Boris X9 still seems to be the best bet to me. I was leaning that way before, now I'm pretty sure. Is there something I'm missing on the Boris vs Night Train/Sturgis?





siv said:


> Bigger tires, thru axles, 190/150 mm hubs and Bluto ready is what I see.


And from the BD website...there will be 29+ wheelsets available for the Sturgis and Night Train...if that's your sort of thing :thumbsup: :ciappa:


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Love the bikes... :thumbsup:


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

any pros or cons about how the rear derail and brake are routed under the chain stay. wondering if they would attract ice, snow build up.. thoughts?


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

RobKong said:


> Boris X9 still seems to be the best bet to me. I was leaning that way before, now I'm pretty sure. Is there something I'm missing on the Boris vs Night Train/Sturgis?


For me, it's the bigger tires. I could put a Bud/Lou combo on the NightTrain or just use the Snowshoes that come with it. Great for snow riding, which is why I'm getting a fatbike in the first place. Second, I've read almost nothing good about the Vee Missions, especially in the snow, so I'd have to buy some snow tires anyway if I got the Boris. The tapered headtube is great as is, but even better if I can put a Bluto in it later if I want to. Basically, the Sturgis/NightTrain is ready for everything I want my fatbike to do, and it comes nicely equipped.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

The Snowshoe's run small, like a 4.00. Be interesting to see if a Lou/Bud fits the rear.
There are pics of a Bud next to the snowshoe, not even funny the difference. They should have specced them w/ Snowshoe XL.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

Thank you Solo Rider. I am surprised I could not see those bikes. Just the normal ones they had for sale. What are these bikes like? I was eye balling the Boris X9 which is a KHS I think.


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## rdub315 (Apr 14, 2014)

Is it me, or does the geometry on the Night Train Bullet look all wonky? That down tube looks awfully steep.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Man this looks tempting.....is that color of the sturgis bullit the metal flake red? Can anyone find a picture of the gold digger color?


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Xpcgamer said:


> Thank you Solo Rider. I am surprised I could not see those bikes. Just the normal ones they had for sale. What are these bikes like? I was eye balling the Boris X9 which is a KHS I think.


If you're asking as what known model the Sturgis and Night Train, may be emulating? I don't have a clue.

However, I will say...

These are the best looking aluminum frame fatbike's, I've ever seen. At first glance, i thought they were carbon fiber.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

Anybody know the weight of the Lurch? I read the Boris X9 is around 33lbs. Trying to decide between the 2.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Xpcgamer said:


> Anybody know the weight of the Lurch? I read the Boris X9 is around 33lbs. Trying to decide between the 2.


The builds are about the same.

The lurch uses 4130 CR-MO which isn't too heavy so, my assumption would be a pound or two over the Boris of the same frame size. However, you would loose a pound on the tires with lurch over the Boris. The Lurch runs Vee Snowshoes and the Boris runs Vee Mission's.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

So would thT mean the Mission 4.0 are like 3.5 then??? Also, why do the Mussions suck and if so would the 120 TPI ones be better than what came on last years Boris? I'm also still confused about those brake adapters I see on last years Boris, there's a YouTube video showing them.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Mission 4.0 measure true. There was a misunderstanding on th Snowshoes that lead to them having an undersized casing compared to the larger one that was desired.

The Mission tire have shallow tread that makes them not work well for snow. They work well on medium to hardback with the exception that they have lots of selfsteer.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

I was thinking the exact same thing, car_nut.

Hmmm... makes the Lurch seem like a better value to me. For an extra bill, the Sturgis has thru axles but a lower end drivetrain and Tektro brakes. The Bullet versions seem worthwhile since I doubt a Bluto can be had anywhere else cheaper.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

I am new to the fatbike world and plan on getting one for this up coming winter, the motobecanes look really nice, I want to keep the price around 800, which of these bikes would be best for me? also im a pretty big guy 6'1'' 240, what would you recommend between the Boris x5/x7 ,lurch or fantom fb4. 

thanks


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

At your weight the thru axles of Sturgis or Night Train would be nice but not at your price point, you can swing the Boris X9 at $799.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

Would the price $300 from Lurch to Night Train be worth it for the better RD, thru axles, and brakes?

Keep in mind I am an idiot, and probably wouldn't notice, but don't have a lot of patience.

The idea of Bluto-ready, or even Bluto-equipped is appealing though. And the mid-Aug vs mid-Oct delivery dates are brutal.


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

tyriverag said:


> Would the price $300 from Lurch to Night Train be worth it for the better RD, thru axles, and brakes?
> 
> Keep in mind I am an idiot, and probably wouldn't notice, but don't have a lot of patience.
> 
> The idea of Bluto-ready, or even Bluto-equipped.


AFAIK, try spending $300 and see what you get in the aftermarket... good luck.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

So just go to the Sturgis, only $100 more.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

siv said:


> At your weight the thru axles of Sturgis or Night Train would be nice but not at your price point, you can swing the Boris X9 at $799.


So your saying not to waste my money a less expensive bike and just go for a sturgis then?


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## Willum (Sep 2, 2012)

OnThaCouch said:


> And from the BD website...there will be 29+ wheelsets available for the Sturgis and Night Train...if that's your sort of thing :thumbsup: :ciappa:


Just to be clear, "NOTE: We will be selling 29er wheels that are compatible with these 150/190mm thru-axle frames" says to me that they will be standard 29er wheelsets, not 29+. If they would offer 29+ I would be very interested though. I wonder what rim they would use?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Willum said:


> Just to be clear, "NOTE: We will be selling 29er wheels that are compatible with these 150/190mm thru-axle frames" says to me that they will be standard 29er wheelsets, not 29+. If they would offer 29+ I would be very interested though. I wonder what rim they would use?


Good catch. I stand corrected. My hope is that they would offer 29+ wheelsets for these framesets. I would like to use it for trails as well as my commute to work.


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

I contacted BD on the Sturgis/Night Train tire clearance. Chris from BD said that "true" 4.8 inch tires will fit.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

I'm no expert and haven't seen any of the bikes it's just my thought. It's hard to have a budget and then jump $300. Personally I'd at least go with the X9 Boris because it's specked nice and within your budget.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

What are the benefits of Thru Axels? Every bike I have ever had did not have these. I live in S.Florida so bike will only be ridden on the trails.


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

Xpcgamer said:


> What are the benefits of Thru Axels? Every bike I have ever had did not have these. I live in S.Florida so bike will only be ridden on the trails.


I was researching this last night and it appears the axles are beefier/thicker. To take the wheel off it seems you have to pull the axle out.

Gary


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

*Sturgis Bullet vs Night Train Bullet*

So I'm looking at both the bullets (Sturgis and the Night Train) and I'm wondering if the extra 2 bills is worth going for the Night Train?

You're getting X7/X9 components for the Night Train (why not straight X9?) and the new SRAM Guild Disc Brake system. These are suppose to be comparable to XT-R Disc Brakes, but there are three levels: R, RS, and RSC. The one that comes with the night train is the middle of the road RS. The RSC has a ball bearing that makes the lever action super smooth.

I do like the Boris X9 and would buy that if it had Bluto, but with the price difference I can buy the Bluto at almost MSRP (800 vs 1500). Is the Boris X9 Bluto Ready?

Also, any notable frame difference between the Sturgis and Night Train? 
I wish they listed the weight of these bikes as that would make or break 
a decision to go with one over the other.

At least all the rims are single walled.

Gary


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## rdub315 (Apr 14, 2014)

^^^ Indeed a tough call without the complete specs... on top of that I'm also trying to decide if I even need/want the Bluto fork, so I'm also considering the Lurch.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

I'm in the same boat, rdub315. The main differences between Lurch and Night Train are the brakes, and I don't know if one is better than the other, the lack of thru axle on Lurch, and of course the NT is bluto-equipped. Obviously Lurch is steel too.

And the NT is out two months later. Not sure if those are really worth the extra $300.

Though if the spec differences are important, that $300 is a tiny price to pay.


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

tyriverag said:


> I'm in the same boat, rdub315. The main differences between Lurch and Night Train are the brakes, and I don't know if one is better than the other, the lack of thru axle on Lurch, and of course the NT is bluto-equipped. Obviously Lurch is steel too.
> 
> And the NT is out two months later. Not sure if those are really worth the extra $300.
> 
> Though if the spec differences are important, that $300 is a tiny price to pay.


I've been reading about the new SRAM Guide brakes and I'm impressed, but the reviews have been of the RSC (not the RS that comes with the NT). They usually bring out a better version a few months later so I wouldn't be surprised if another version of the NT comes out with straight X9 components and RSC Guide Disc Brakes from SRAM. At least they come with the 180mm disc rather than the standard 160mm ones.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Now do you think for the extra 200 is it really better to go with the Sturgis over the Boris? to me I say yes, which is why im 99% sure im going with it.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

sml-2727 said:


> Now do you think for the extra 200 is it really better to go with the Sturgis over the Boris? to me I say yes, which is why im 99% sure im going with it.


Hard to say. Depends on how you value tire size. I'd suggest you look at the Lurch as well. Boris-level components with Sturgis tires at $899.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

*Snowshoe*



Barheet said:


> I contacted BD on the Sturgis/Night Train tire clearance. Chris from BD said that "true" 4.8 inch tires will fit.


The XL snowshoe and Lou are similar. I'm skeptical because the Night Train page states [fits most 4.8 tires]. Bud and Lou are the only 4.8 that I know of. Look at the difference here/ Reg Snowshoe compared to 4.8 snowshoe XL both on 100 mm rims .


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

check out the pics, there is a HUGE amount of space between the fork and the tire. the rear is a little harder to tell from the pics but i don't think you'll have any trouble.
View attachment 908718


anyone know if the Bud/Lou will fit on the Boris?


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

The front is not an issue. Bluto accepts 4.8. I just hope it works in the rear. I'm still trying to make up my mind also.
They are making it sound like there are many 4.8 tires to choose and most will fit. There is only one rear specific and that is the Lou/Bud. I don't think the XL is out yet.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I've been waiting a long time for the Sturgis/NightTrain specs to come out. I'm set on the Night Train. Definitely worth the $200 extra for the all-new GUIDE RS brakes, 120TPI tires, and the one-level higher RD/Shifters. Wished the NIghtTrain had a mid-cage derailleur and the X9 shifters like the Lurch.

My only dillema: Do I get the Bluto or not?

I first got interested in getting a fat bike due to winter riding. But I see so many guys riding their fat bikes into the summer because they're so much fun. I don't want to regret getting the rigid, having to spend another $700 on the Bluto later.

Any of you see issues with riding with a Bluto through the winter? Or should I get the Bluto, and then hope to get a rigid fork right away for the winter?

Also..I want the purple, but that's only available rigid, and not in the Bluto.


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

neons97 said:


> I've been waiting a long time for the Sturgis/NightTrain specs to come out. I'm set on the Night Train. Definitely worth the $200 extra for the all-new GUIDE RS brakes, 120TPI tires, and the one-level higher RD/Shifters. Wished the NIghtTrain had a mid-cage derailleur and the X9 shifters like the Lurch.
> 
> My only dillema: Do I get the Bluto or not?
> 
> ...


Neons97: I'd go with the bluto because once you get your bike, you're gonna wish you had spent the $300 on the bluto. If you decide to go rigid (which I doubt), you can easily sell it for $300 and get your money back.

I'm really excited about the new GUIDE RS brakes (wished it was the RSC trim though) with the 180mm rotors and the bluto.

Why would you pick the Night Train over the Sturgis?
Gary


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

GaryH said:


> Neons97: I'd go with the bluto because once you get your bike, you're gonna wish you had spent the $300 on the bluto. If you decide to go rigid (which I doubt), you can easily sell it for $300 and get your money back.
> 
> I'm really excited about the new GUIDE RS brakes (wished it was the RSC trim though) with the 180mm rotors and the bluto.
> 
> ...


Hi Gary,

Going with the Bluto makes financial sense as its such a good deal. But you can't really go rigid easily afterwards. Trying to find a 150mm aluminum/carbon front fork may be challenging (initially...until more are available).

Night Train over Sturgis...for the Guide RS brakes alone (can't stand the Tektro Brakes on Sturgis). If I got the Sturgis, I would have to pull the Tektro brakes and get some Deore/SLX's immediately. And those Tektro's as new take-offs get next to nothing on the used market if they even sell. At street pricing, this accounts for nearly the full $200 price difference. Then you get the lighter 120TPI tires, as well as X9 RD/X7 Shifters vs. the X7/X5 combo on the Sturgis. All my other bikes are XT or XTR equipped, so the X7/X5 combo of the Sturgis just doesn't appeal to me.


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

On the subject of bikes-direct....has anyone noticed that the new(2015) SE fat bikes are going to have a tappered headset?

[email protected] - Mountain Series, Bikes | SEBikes.com

[email protected] - Mountain Series, Bikes | SEBikes.com


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

neons97 said:


> Hi Gary,
> 
> Going with the Bluto makes financial sense as its such a good deal. But you can't really go rigid easily afterwards. Trying to find a 150mm aluminum/carbon front fork may be challenging (initially...until more are available).
> 
> Night Train over Sturgis...for the Guide RS brakes alone (can't stand the Tektro Brakes on Sturgis). If I got the Sturgis, I would have to pull the Tektro brakes and get some Deore/SLX's immediately. And those Tektro's as new take-offs get next to nothing on the used market if they even sell. At street pricing, this accounts for nearly the full $200 price difference. Then you get the lighter 120TPI tires, as well as X9 RD/X7 Shifters vs. the X7/X5 combo on the Sturgis. All my other bikes are XT or XTR equipped, so the X7/X5 combo of the Sturgis just doesn't appeal to me.


Yeah true. Someone on this forum will upgrade and have one for sale. If not you can always get this:

26er Carbon Fat Snow Beach Bike Bicycle MTB Skewer Fork Tapered Steerer Disc | eBay

I agree w what u say about the Tektro.

I have xtr on my other bike and i think the x7 on my giant shifts just as well so i wonder how well the x.9 performs.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

GaryH said:


> Yeah true. Someone on this forum will upgrade and have one for sale. If not you can always get this:
> 
> 26er Carbon Fat Snow Beach Bike Bicycle MTB Skewer Fork Tapered Steerer Disc | eBay
> 
> ...


Unfortunately that carbon fork is 135mm spacing an open qr dropout. It would also require a new front hub and wheel rebuild. Probably not worth the cost or trouble to downgrade from bluto.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Trying to compare geo on bikes and can't find specs for Boris, anyone?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

boris frame geometry

View attachment 908754


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Thanks, they all seem to be pretty much the same.


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## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

Some of the paint color options are beginning to show up...Gold Digger, White, and Metal Flake Red. Still trying to figure out what "WR Green" is.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

I just did a quick comparison of geometry charts, and as I previously thought (based on naming conventions and macroviews of the frames), while not exact - a couple millimeters here and/or a half degree or two there, the Lurch is very similar to the Pugsley and the Night Train/Sturgis are very similar to the Fatboy.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

tyriverag said:


> I just did a quick comparison of geometry charts, and as I previously thought (based on naming conventions and macroviews of the frames), while not exact - a couple millimeters here and/or a half degree or two there, the Lurch is very similar to the Pugsley and the Night Train/Sturgis are very similar to the Fatboy.


That's not overly surprising given that BD has openly made those comparisons themselves.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Wow I just saw that the Bluto is a $640 fork, now is it worth it ? comparing the sturgis bullet vs night train spec wise the night train has better parts but comes with a rigid fork, so I guess you have to ask yourself do you want better brakes,derailleurs and tires or a bike that comes with a better fork and cost 100 bucks more.

Which way are more people leaning between those two? if the boris x9 came with thru axle my decision would be so much easier


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

sml-2727 said:


> Wow I just saw that the Bluto is a $640 fork, now is it worth it ? comparing the sturgis bullet vs night train spec wise the night train has better parts but comes with a rigid fork, so I guess you have to ask yourself do you want better brakes,derailleurs and tires or a bike that comes with a better fork and cost 100 bucks more.
> 
> Which way are more people leaning between those two? if the boris x9 came with thru axle my decision would be so much easier


I'm leaning towards night train bullet. I'm just afraid bluto will be the wrong tool for the job (ie snow riding primarily) despite the good deal.

Boris is a no go for me due to the 170mm rear spacing, no thru axles, and the mission tires.


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## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

neons97 said:


> I'm leaning towards night train bullet. I'm just afraid bluto will be the wrong tool for the job (ie snow riding primarily) despite the good deal.
> 
> Boris is a no go for me due to the 170mm rear spacing, no thru axles, and the mission tires.


Then wouldn't you would want the regular Night Train, not the Bullet version?


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

Damn the Lurch or just blow my entire wad and go Night Train with Bluto?!? It makes me laugh the price you have to pay for a Surly just to get one to the same level of the Lurch. One of the reasons I am leaning that route. But damn I will be riding this on the trails and my trails are pretty darn technical. That Bluto will come in handy but October? Ugh!
Add 600 for a 120mm Bluto and over 200 for the brakes and wow the Night Train IS a deal if you need those items.


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

Xpcgamer said:


> I will be riding this on the trails and my trails are pretty darn technical. That Bluto will come in handy


I just called and cancelled my Boris X9 and had them order me up a NightTrain Bullet... just for the reason you stated.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

Yeah I think I may go with that option. Or maybe just add the Bluto to the Lurch. The 120mm Bluto is going for under 6 bills. If I add this to the Lurch I will still be under a hundred of the Night Train. I don't know if I really NEED the power of the hydro brakes but its nice to know. Man I can't make up my mind.


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## racer37 (Jun 23, 2014)

Does anybody know if the Lurch has clearance for the 4.8" tires?


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## rajcoont (Jun 19, 2014)

after months and months of waiting and comparing and wasting time, I finally made my decision and ordered a lurch! when I looked at the specs and what I really cared about, lurch had most pluses going for it and was also the cheapest of all the bikes on the list, choice seemed simple 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

I was under the impression that BD no longer advertises the Lurch as Bluto-compatible, with them taking that off their website. I mean, it "looks" like a Bluto would work, right? right?



Xpcgamer said:


> Yeah I think I may go with that option. Or maybe just add the Bluto to the Lurch. The 120mm Bluto is going for under 6 bills. If I add this to the Lurch I will still be under a hundred of the Night Train. I don't know if I really NEED the power of the hydro brakes but its nice to know. Man I can't make up my mind.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

"NOTE: Fits tapered head tube forks. Some Lockout levers may strike downtube if forks are turned too far"... is what the new Lurch specs say for the tapered head tube - BLUTO lockout lever doesn't clear down tube by 2mm BD reported somewhere else. 

I think the Cane Creek angleset headset is the hack to get around this with the bonus of getting a more trail worthy geometry head tube angle out of the front end. Slack Bluto geometry for summer trails, rigid steep geometry for winter.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

So watermonkey, either swap out the headsets, or file down the presumably plastic lockout levers a little bit?

Sounds about as Bluto-ready as I'll need! Looks like once I sell my (goddamn) guitar, old uncle tyriverag will be crushing skulls on a purple Lurch!


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

Do you guys think the Lurch is worth the $899 price tag? I ask because it is priced much higher than the Boris X9. I'm looking for a rugged adventure bike, but I'm wondering if the steel frame option is going to be too flexy on a fully loaded Lurch? Because the bike is going to be around 40 pounds or so, then the touring load will add another 30 pounds or so. I just see these bikes as great cross country touring options and I think the Lurch fits the bill. But I wonder about the advantages and disadvantages of AL versus Steel in a expedition type scenario which is mainly what I will use this bike for.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

Hmm...your right. I can't find anything anymore saying "Bluto Compatible". Crap do I really need a Bluto? My last bike was only running 90mm in the rear and 80 in the front. Wonder if the Fatty tires can provide the same.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Well im going for my first test ride of a fatbike , its going to be a 14 specialized fatboy, price tag 2000 bucks....holy cow, claimed weight is 30 pounds, I think the sturgis is closely spec'd to the fatboy and is 1000 bucks cheaper


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

rajcoont said:


> after months and months of waiting and comparing and wasting time, I finally made my decision and ordered a lurch! when I looked at the specs and what I really cared about, lurch had most pluses going for it and was also the cheapest of all the bikes on the list, choice seemed simple
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good For you! It looks like a crazy good bike. You have to go for the Surly Pug Ops that is not even out yet to get the same bike. I really want some Nextie rims so going for the Lurch may save up some cash to get a set.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Well for 2 grand the fatboy is not worth it, if they would of said 1200 I would of brought it home tonight, sunrace rear cassette,Tektro Draco brakes,and no thruaxle. I did like the grip shift though and the carbon fork. I asked the LBS if he would come down in price since the 15's will be coming out, he was like well if your really interested we could figure something out,but we normally dont discount bikes til the 15's are in the shop, in other works he would of taken 100 or 200 bucks off the asking price. I think the night train is calling my name....


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

I swear if the MTB community really gets wind of what BD is doing all other Fatty manufacturers are in trouble.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

that red and gold on the sturgis is hideous


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

I am between sizes on the Lurch. 6 foot and 33 inch inseam. Not sure to go 18 inch or 20 inch.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Kickngas said:


> Then wouldn't you would want the regular Night Train, not the Bullet version?


Yes. That's correct. But the Bluto at $300 is a killer value. And if I end up riding it in the dirt, I'll wish I had the Bluto.

Decision made...Night Train Bullet for me. I'm sure there'll be enough guys on here that regretted getting the rigid and will upgrade to a Bluto. They'll have those rigid forks for sale pretty soon...


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Xpcgamer said:


> Yeah I think I may go with that option. Or maybe just add the Bluto to the Lurch. The 120mm Bluto is going for under 6 bills. If I add this to the Lurch I will still be under a hundred of the Night Train. I don't know if I really NEED the power of the hydro brakes but its nice to know. Man I can't make up my mind.


Be careful. The Lurch doesn't come with through axles. So adding a Bluto later (eventhough the right lever doesn't clear downtube), could also mean a new front 15mm through axle front hub, and a wheel rebuild. Getting Novatec replacement axles/end caps may not be the easiest thing to track down.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

neons97 said:


> Be careful. The Lurch doesn't come with through axles. So adding a Bluto later (eventhough the right lever doesn't clear downtube), could also mean a new front 15mm through axle front hub, and a wheel rebuild. Getting Novatec replacement axles/end caps may not be the easiest thing to track down.


I was under the impression that the 150mm Novatec front hub converts directly to thru axle specifically for BLUTO ready use....take a look at the detail pics of the black Lurch - pretty slick setup. Who cares about thru axle on the rear - on full suspension, yes, rigid, not necessary, but cool nonetheless.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

beachbum1 said:


> that red and gold on the sturgis is hideous


I instantly felt all greasy just looking at those colors...smarmy.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

This will be my snow bike, I will use my camber for spring and summer riding so no bluto doesn't really bother me, im going to stick with the night train, if I really want a bluto down the road I can always upgrade to one later. 

One question I have for people who have bought one, do you get charged right away or once the bike gets shipped?


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## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

sml-2727 said:


> One question I have for people who have bought one, do you get charged right away or once the bike gets shipped?


Yep, billed right away....


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

watermonkey said:


> I was under the impression that the 150mm Novatec front hub converts directly to thru axle specifically for BLUTO ready use....take a look at the detail pics of the black Lurch - pretty slick setup. Who cares about thru axle on the rear - on full suspension, yes, rigid, not necessary, but cool nonetheless.


That's cool. Didn't see those pics. Yes, front hub is Bluto ready.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

sml-2727 said:


> This will be my snow bike, I will use my camber for spring and summer riding so no bluto doesn't really bother me, im going to stick with the night train, if I really want a bluto down the road I can always upgrade to one later.
> 
> One question I have for people who have bought one, do you get charged right away or once the bike gets shipped?


They say they will charge you right away. So you'll be out the $$$ for 3 months.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

Fawk it. I'm getting the Lurch. Only thing is the color. Black, Yellow, Orange or the Silver. Black with some Nextie wheels in yellow would be very sessy!


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

neons97 said:


> Yes. That's correct. But the Bluto at $300 is a killer value. And if I end up riding it in the dirt, I'll wish I had the Bluto.
> 
> Decision made...Night Train Bullet for me. I'm sure there'll be enough guys on here that regretted getting the rigid and will upgrade to a Bluto. They'll have those rigid forks for sale pretty soon...


Neon97 - I also decided on the NT bullet. I want the SRAM Guide Disc Brake system and your argument about upgrading makes sense.

I'm 5'8" so I'll be ordering the 17.5 frame. Anyone think otherwise? 
On my SC superlight I ride a large and on my Giant DS-1 I have an 18' frame.

Gary


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

GaryH said:


> Neon97 - I also decided on the NT bullet. I want the SRAM Guide Disc Brake system and your argument about upgrading makes sense.
> 
> I'm 5'8" so I'll be ordering the 17.5 frame. Anyone think otherwise?
> On my SC superlight I ride a large and on my Giant DS-1 I have an 18' frame.
> ...


I'm 5' 8" as well, and was planning on the 15" based on the ETT. All my "medium" bikes I'm comfortable on have an ETT of approx. 585 + 90mm stem. The 15.5" is a 595 + 80mm stem, making the cockpit virtually identical. But I've NEVER ridden a 15.5" before in my life. Interesting that the 17.5" ETT is only 598mm. Doesnt seem possible that a 2.5" larger frame only has 5mm longer ETT, the 19" ETT grows significantly by 22mm. And the 21" is 28mm longer than the 19". I'm going to check with BD to clarify those figures are correct.

What's also odd is that the 15" and 17.5" have essentially the exact same length (1mm difference). It almost looks like the 15" and 17.5" are the same frame, with just a shorter seat tube.

There's also something else that's wrong with the geo. With an ETT that's 5mm different, and exactly the same chain stay length (not 100% correct way to measure), the wheelbase of the 15.5" vs. 17" has a wheelbase difference of 24mm. So wheelbase gets longer on the 17.5", chain stay is the same, ETT is the same, HT angle is the same. Where did the wheelbase go?


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## RocktonRider (Nov 30, 2010)

neons97 said:


> I'm going to check with BD to clarify those figures are correct.


There's a post on their Facebook page from April 21 listing different geometry numbers. They make more sense and match a certain other fatbike that BD has alluded to.


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

neons97 said:


> I'm 5' 8" as well, and was planning on the 15" based on the ETT. All my "medium" bikes I'm comfortable on have an ETT of approx. 585 + 90mm stem. The 15.5" is a 595 + 80mm stem, making the cockpit virtually identical. But I've NEVER ridden a 15.5" before in my life. Interesting that the 17.5" ETT is only 598mm. Doesnt seem possible that a 2.5" larger frame only has 5mm longer ETT, the 19" ETT grows significantly by 22mm. And the 21" is 28mm longer than the 19". I'm going to check with BD to clarify those figures are correct.
> 
> What's also odd is that the 15" and 17.5" have essentially the exact same length (1mm difference). It almost looks like the 15" and 17.5" are the same frame, with just a shorter seat tube.
> 
> There's also something else that's wrong with the geo. With an ETT that's 5mm different, and exactly the same chain stay length (not 100% correct way to measure), the wheelbase of the 15.5" vs. 17" has a wheelbase difference of 24mm. So wheelbase gets longer on the 17.5", chain stay is the same, ETT is the same, HT angle is the same. Where did the wheelbase go?


What is your inseam? Mine is 30".

Man, now I'm not sure if I should go for at 15.0 or 17.5. Someone mentioned they come bigger than expected (the frame).


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

neons97 said:


> They say they will charge you right away. So you'll be out the $$$ for 3 months.


There is an option through paypal [Bill me later]. 6 months interest free. 
You can see for yourself. Place bike in cart and do a dry run through Paypal and you will see the option. Stretch the payments for 6 months


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## chuck732 (Jul 29, 2010)

I wanted to buy the Gravity Bullseye Monster in Green and size 16" but there out of stock. So how long does it take them to get more?


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

neons97 said:


> I'm 5' 8" as well, and was planning on the 15" based on the ETT. All my "medium" bikes I'm comfortable on have an ETT of approx. 585 + 90mm stem. The 15.5" is a 595 + 80mm stem, making the cockpit virtually identical. But I've NEVER ridden a 15.5" before in my life. Interesting that the 17.5" ETT is only 598mm. Doesnt seem possible that a 2.5" larger frame only has 5mm longer ETT, the 19" ETT grows significantly by 22mm. And the 21" is 28mm longer than the 19". I'm going to check with BD to clarify those figures are correct.
> 
> What's also odd is that the 15" and 17.5" have essentially the exact same length (1mm difference). It almost looks like the 15" and 17.5" are the same frame, with just a shorter seat tube.
> 
> There's also something else that's wrong with the geo. With an ETT that's 5mm different, and exactly the same chain stay length (not 100% correct way to measure), the wheelbase of the 15.5" vs. 17" has a wheelbase difference of 24mm. So wheelbase gets longer on the 17.5", chain stay is the same, ETT is the same, HT angle is the same. Where did the wheelbase go?


I'm in between size and thinking about getting the slightly bigger 20 inch lurch. I like using a short stem and not so much seat post. Also the longer wheelbase is better I think for longer rides right? More stability supposedly...but for technical stuff you want to size down? I plan on using this as a tourer / adventure type bike and adding the Jones loop h-bar that I see the surly ECR riders using.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Think I'm gonna settle on a regular Night Train, seems like a great deal on the upgrades from the Sturgis. I'm really not a fan of gloss though and have no idea what the purple looks like.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

Yep, the Lurch was originally intended to be Lurch-compatible, possibly even a bluto-Lurch option, but I think once testing happened, they realized the issue with the lockout levers hittting the downtube, which we I think decided could be solved with a file or angled headset. 

Be careful. The Lurch doesn't come with through axles. So adding a Bluto later (eventhough the right lever doesn't clear downtube), could also mean a new front 15mm through axle front hub, and a wheel rebuild. Getting Novatec replacement axles/end caps may not be the easiest thing to track down.
I was under the impression that the 150mm Novatec front hub converts directly to thru axle specifically for BLUTO ready use....take a look at the detail pics of the black Lurch - pretty slick setup. Who cares about thru axle on the rear - on full suspension, yes, rigid, not necessary, but cool nonetheless.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

GaryH said:


> What is your inseam? Mine is 30".
> 
> Man, now I'm not sure if I should go for at 15.0 or 17.5. Someone mentioned they come bigger than expected (the frame).


Inseam is 29". Based on website geo's, I would go 15". However, based on their earlier FB post, I would go 17.5 with a shorter stem (their 17.5" comes with a 90mm stem/700mm bar combo). I would probably do 17.5 with a 60-70mm stem if the FB specs are correct (which looks to be aligned with the Specialized Fatboy).


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

GT_guy said:


> I think you should go with the 15. (I did!)
> I'm 5'9" / 32" and had a chance to try a M Fatboy. It felt really "big". I was more stretched out than I like and there was not enough stand over for me. I think the Sturgis geo is very close to the FB, so it's a fair comparison.


I didn't think to compare to the Fatboy...but I also took a Medium Fatboy out on a quick ride. It felt too big for me too. Add to that, the Fatboy Medium uses a 60mm stem. The Sturgis/NightTrain medium/17.5" comes with a 90mm stem.


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

GaryH said:


> What is your inseam? Mine is 30".
> 
> Man, now I'm not sure if I should go for at 15.0 or 17.5. Someone mentioned they come bigger than expected (the frame).


I think you should go with the 15. (I did!)
I'm 5'9" / 32" and had a chance to try a M Fatboy. It felt really "big". I was more stretched out than I like and there was not enough stand over for me. I think the Sturgis geo is very close to the FB, so it's a fair comparison.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Kickngas said:


> Yep, billed right away....


Do you know if you can cancel and get a refund before the bike is shipped if I order today?


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## crewjones (Aug 24, 2007)

What do you thing the weight difference is between the Night train and the Lurch?
Love a good steel frame.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

The components are almost exact, so the main difference in weight would be frame, and what is that, going from steel to aluminum, a couple pounds?

I thikn the consensus is that the Fatboy is the lightest stock fat bike (limited to aluminum or steel), and that's right around 30lbs, with a slightly worse (heavier?) spec. Add a couple for the steel frame and non-carbon fork, and you're looking at maybe 34/5?

That seem about right?



crewjones said:


> What do you thing the weight difference is between the Night train and the Lurch?
> Love a good steel frame.


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## kent-the-hammer (Dec 9, 2011)

Do you think I would be able to fit a 29+ tire on the Lurch? maybe with the dually 45mm rims?


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Just ordered a Night Train in Black. now the waiting begins =(


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

kent-the-hammer said:


> Do you think I would be able to fit a 29+ tire on the Lurch? maybe with the dually 45mm rims?


No, look at the pics. does it look like an extra 3 inches will fit in there?

View attachment 909047


look at the downtube, not going to happen

View attachment 909048


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

I think you are confused. 29+ is not even 1" larger in diameter. Which is then split in half.


Pedaling


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

yeah, he's confused. 29+ is about very similar to a fat tire in diameter. it will most likely clear


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

sml-2727 said:


> Just ordered a Night Train in Black. now the waiting begins =(


My finger is on the trigger too but I'd like to see the purple first.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

BENKD29 said:


> No, look at the pics. does it look like an extra 3 inches will fit in there?
> 
> look at the downtube, not going to happen


Not very good with basic math, are you Ace?


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

Just FYI the lurch geometry is similar to a pugsley. Being 6 foot...33 inch inseam...long arms...I checked out an 18 inch pugsley at a lbs and it felt very very small. I suppose fat bike racers might like that fit though. So thinking the 20 inch would be perfect. I think 6 foot with very short arms/legs might fit an 18 just fine though for those interested in the lurch...

I priced the specs on the lurch as well and basically the parts alone retail for the price they are selling the bike. Great deal imo


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## crewjones (Aug 24, 2007)

Lurch in Grey looks slick. What's the consensus on suspension forks? i imagine that will add weight and maybe not necessary. I'll be riding on dirt. no snow here.


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

I think the consensus is the fat bikes with the Bluto forks are basically a steal. Definitely go with aluminum if you want/need a stiffer ride. Steel fans will probably go with the lurch I'm guessing.

There has been debate if the steel frame can fit a bluto fork...


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## hoobash (Oct 2, 2007)

I ordered a purple lurch when they first posted them and I all I can say is waiting for a bike to come SUCKS!!!!! I want my bike prime summer beach days are passing me by


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

rjedoaks said:


> I think you are confused. 29+ is not even 1" larger in diameter. Which is then split in half.
> 
> Pedaling


ok, thank you for correcting me, i thought it was more than that


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## crewjones (Aug 24, 2007)

Anyone know what kind of steel they're using on the lurch? i can't see to find that info


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Since I gain 20 pounds of winter fat due to lack of riding in the snow, I want to buy a fatbike and ride in the winter instead of packing on the fat. Since it gets in the single digits and below, I'm thinking a mechanical disc brake would be better than a hydraulic. Any recommendations from the Bikedirect line-up? I really don't want to drop a whole lot of $$ since I just bought a Specialized Camber.


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## Chris_F97 (Sep 2, 2013)

radnur22 said:


> Since I gain 20 pounds of winter fat due to lack of riding in the snow, I want to buy a fatbike and ride in the winter instead of packing on the fat. Since it gets in the single digits and below, I'm thinking a mechanical disc brake would be better than a hydraulic. Any recommendations from the Bikedirect line-up? I really don't want to drop a whole lot of $$ since I just bought a Specialized Camber.


Similar situation here and I'm trying to pick between the Boris and Lurch. Really comes down to 4 in vs 5 in tired and steel or aluminum. Hydro brakes work fine in these parts down at least to single digit negative temps F but don't buy a bike with Tektro brakes, they are downright dangerous s and should be replaced. Both the cable brake options on those bikes, the bb5 and bb7 are fantastic cable brakes, all you really gain going hydro is a little better feel and less tuning.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

It's listed on the Lurch page, to the left


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## sar315 (Nov 8, 2009)

radnur22 said:


> Since I gain 20 pounds of winter fat due to lack of riding in the snow, I want to buy a fatbike and ride in the winter instead of packing on the fat. Since it gets in the single digits and below, I'm thinking a mechanical disc brake would be better than a hydraulic. Any recommendations from the Bikedirect line-up? I really don't want to drop a whole lot of $$ since I just bought a Specialized Camber.


Why do you think mechanical disc brakes are better below freezing ?!
I 99.999% sure it is other way around. Look at cars, hydraulic brakes never freeze, but parking brake which is same design as mechanical disc brake will freeze if moisture gets
inside.

And in normal condition (above freezing) hydraulic brakes are orders of magnitude better then mechanical. Usually, even V-brakes work better than mechanical.


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

sar315 said:


> Why do you think mechanical disc brakes are better below freezing ?!
> I 99.999% sure it is other way around. Look at cars, hydraulic brakes never freeze, but parking brake which is same design as mechanical disc brake will freeze if moisture gets
> inside.
> 
> And in normal condition (above freezing) hydraulic brakes are orders of magnitude better then mechanical. Usually, even V-brakes work better than mechanical.


I personally think that if you are biking in sub zero temps, you should be using mechanical disc brakes as there is no fluid to freeze. Hydraulic fluid does not freeze at 32F, but it will freeze at a specific temp (which I have no idea of at this moment). V brakes may work better than disc brakes at those temps, but you can also get a sheet of ice that forms on the lip of the rim where the brakes contact the wheel, right? Just as possible as it is for fluid/water to get into a mechanical brake or fluid/water between the calipers in any of the disc brake types (mechanical or hydraulic).


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

GT_guy said:


> I think you should go with the 15. (I did!)
> I'm 5'9" / 32" and had a chance to try a M Fatboy. It felt really "big". I was more stretched out than I like and there was not enough stand over for me. I think the Sturgis geo is very close to the FB, so it's a fair comparison.


You and neons97 are making me lean towards a 15.0. All my bikes are about 18 or M. Getting a 15.0 will probably make a noticeable difference in size. If it doesn't work for me, will bikes direct exchange it for a 17.5? Ship at my cost?


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## Chris_F97 (Sep 2, 2013)

Freezing point for mineral oil as used in my Shimano XT's is negative 20F. Mineral oil contracts as it freezes (opposite of water) so if it does freeze it should cause rubbing and eventually lock the brake until it thaws. Some hydro's use automotive brake fluid and you'll be dead long before that freezes.



sar315 said:


> Why do you think mechanical disc brakes are better below freezing ?!
> I 99.999% sure it is other way around. Look at cars, hydraulic brakes never freeze, but parking brake which is same design as mechanical disc brake will freeze if moisture gets
> inside.
> 
> And in normal condition (above freezing) hydraulic brakes are orders of magnitude better then mechanical. Usually, even V-brakes work better than mechanical.


In addition to the XT bike I also have one with BB7's and I'd say the hydro's are maybe 5% better, not night and day. The XTs ate the best hydro brake I've risen, the Avids aren't as nice IMO.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

sar315 said:


> Why do you think mechanical disc brakes are better below freezing ?!


The seals in your typical bicycle hydro brake get a little wonky at freezing temps. Everything usually still works, but the pistons won't retract and you end up with zero free throw in the lever. Sometimes they'll start leaking as well since the seal isn't pliable enough.

Avid BB's are well regarded and generally considered the go-to option for winter riders. They don't give up much as compared to a hydro brake and seem to work well in snow environments. As mentioned above, I personally wouldn't even bother trying with the Tektro units.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

*What's up with the BB standard????*

EDIT: I take this back. I see that Raceface's fat cranks show a similar configuration, so their cranks are good with the spindle spacers.

OK. I'm not a fatbike expert by any means and I know the "standards" for fatbikes are a complete mess right now, so maybe I've got this wrong.

- It seems the recommended BB width for 190mm drops is either 120mm or 132mm
- The Lurch/Sturgis/Night Train are all spec'd with 100mm dropouts
- They're then fitted with 120mm cranks and (2) 10mm spacers to get a 120mm crank spacing. These are on the crank spindle itself, not on the bearing cup/frame interface.

I know most mainstream cranks wouldn't be happy with this setup. The bearings are supposed to be located at the spindle/crank arm and not moved 10mm inboard. It looks like a "custom" solution and I'm not seeing any aftermarket crank that could be fitted to these frames.

So, what am I missing? Hoping I don't have this right.

https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/lurch-blk/images/IMG_8232.jpg


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

car_nut said:


> EDIT: I take this back. I see that Raceface's fat cranks show a similar configuration, so their cranks are good with the spindle spacers.
> 
> OK. I'm not a fatbike expert by any means and I know the "standards" for fatbikes are a complete mess right now, so maybe I've got this wrong.
> 
> ...


Surly Pug Ops has a 100mm Drop out. 
Pug Ops | Bikes | Surly Bikes


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

GaryH said:


> You and neons97 are making me lean towards a 15.0. All my bikes are about 18 or M. Getting a 15.0 will probably make a noticeable difference in size. If it doesn't work for me, will bikes direct exchange it for a 17.5? Ship at my cost?


I'm going to call them on Monday to clarify their geometries.

i looked at the fat boy geometries again. I should fit on the 17.5 with their 60mm stem spec. The tray and ett lengths should be spot on for me. Maybe it was the big tires or slightly higher stand over than my normal bike.

the 15.5 fat boy numbers look too small for me in all respect.

Right now i'm thinking 17.5 night train but switch to a.60mm stem from the stock 90mm stem. Which makes the geo most like the fat boy.


----------



## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Xpcgamer said:


> Surly Pug Ops has a 100mm Drop out.
> Pug Ops | Bikes | Surly Bikes


The Pug Ops has a 135mm offset drop out and 3.8" tires. Meaning, it is designed for 100mm cranks which obviously works fine with a 100mm BB. The Lurch/Sturgis/NT are designed with 190mm dropouts and sized for >4.5" tires. It requires a 120mm crankset, which seemed odd to me given the 100mm bottom bracket.


----------



## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

GaryH said:


> You and neons97 are making me lean towards a 15.0. All my bikes are about 18 or M. Getting a 15.0 will probably make a noticeable difference in size. If it doesn't work for me, will bikes direct exchange it for a 17.5? Ship at my cost?


Don't know if they do exchanges, but I bet shipping both ways isn't cheap. 
My FS bike that I rode for many years was a 16. When I got a 29er, I ended up with a Medium.
Like I said, when I tried the Fatboy it immediately felt too big and when I commented on that to the LBS owner he said "yeah, I'd put you on a small". So that's where I'm coming from...

I notice that the small Fatboy comes with 170mm cranks. Double checked to make sure the Sturgis has 175's.


----------



## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

car_nut said:


> The Pug Ops has a 135mm offset drop out and 3.8" tires. Meaning, it is designed for 100mm cranks which obviously works fine with a 100mm BB. The Lurch/Sturgis/NT are designed with 190mm dropouts and sized for >4.5" tires. It requires a 120mm crankset, which seemed odd to me given the 100mm bottom bracket.


Just realized this also. I'd like to know what the reason was for not doing a 120BB instead of spacers. Is it an oversite that will be corrected in the second run? Was going to order today, I'd like to see some more answers or opinions in this first.


----------



## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

It seems to just be the way it is with fat cranks. Read this thread:
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/borealis-crank-question-190mm-spacing-887970.html

The Raceface Turbine Cinch specs show the spacers as their standard config for bikes with 190mm dropouts. It seems to be the current design "standard" so I'd say it's good for now.


----------



## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

car_nut said:


> It seems to just be the way it is with fat cranks. Read this thread:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/borealis-crank-question-190mm-spacing-887970.html
> 
> The Raceface Turbine Cinch specs show the spacers as their standard config for bikes with 190mm dropouts. It seems to be the current design "standard" so I'd say it's good for now.


Looks like Spec Fatboy is the same. Good enough then, guess I'll order.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Chris_F97 said:


> Similar situation here and I'm trying to pick between the Boris and Lurch. Really comes down to 4 in vs 5 in tired and steel or aluminum.


I like the cro mo Lurch. The issue I have is the ability to run larger tires. If you study the photo , the wheel is already set to the back of the rear dropout. Very little room left between the seat tube for anything larger. the Stugis and
the NT have way more clearance. 
I 'm going back and forth between The Lurch, Nighttrain and Fatboy

Pedaling


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

rjedoaks said:


> I like the cro mo Lurch. The issue I have is the ability to run larger tires. If you study the photo , the wheel is already set to the back of the rear dropout. Very little room left between the seat tube for anything larger. the Stugis and
> the NT have way more clearance.
> I 'm going back and forth between The Lurch, Nighttrain and Fatboy
> 
> Pedaling


The spec fatboy is a nice bike, but for what you get compared to the nighttrain its a waste of money, take a look at that sunrace rear cassette on the fatboy,it looks so cheaply made,compared to the SRAM 1030 on the NT, also the brakes are also not near as good. the one huge plus on the spec is the frame has a better warranty than a moto,at least I think it does.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

rjedoaks said:


> I like the cro mo Lurch. The issue I have is the ability to run larger tires. If you study the photo , the wheel is already set to the back of the rear dropout. Very little room left between the seat tube for anything larger. the Stugis and
> the NT have way more clearance.
> I 'm going back and forth between The Lurch, Nighttrain and Fatboy
> 
> Pedaling


I wouldn't count on the pics. I am trying to decide on a color and the bikes pics still have Photoshop lines on it. Only way to know for sure is to ask somebody who has one.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Just ordered Night Train in Black, 19. Now to forget about it somehow.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

Can somebody Photo Shop On One's orange tires on an orange Lurch? I have zero skills when it comes do that.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

They just put up pics of the Midnight Purple Night Train, I like the black better


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

sml-2727 said:


> The spec fatboy is a nice bike, but for what you get compared to the nighttrain its a waste of money, take a look at that sunrace rear cassette on the fatboy,it looks so cheaply made,compared to the SRAM 1030 on the NT, also the brakes are also not near as good. the one huge plus on the spec is the frame has a better warranty than a moto,at least I think it does.


Thing is , we know the FB is fantastic. No one has tested nor ridden the NT. Plus no orange creamsicle. I love that new FB orange.

Pedaling


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

rjedoaks said:


> Thing is , we know the FB is fantastic. No one has tested nor ridden the NT. Plus no orange cream sicle. I love that new FB orange.
> 
> Pedaling


I never cared much for what color my bike is....I guess in 3 months I can give you a review of how the NT rides.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

I have a Thule roof rack on my minivan (square tubes). Anyone know of a bike tray that will fit the Night Train Bullet (w/Bluto version)?


----------



## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

I emailed bikes direct regarding the sizing question and below that is their answer for what it's worth.


My height is between 5'8 and 5'9( 5' 8" and 3/4 inches to be exact) My
standover height is between 29 and 30 inches. I am interested in the
Night Train Bullet. Any advise on size would be helpful.

We would recommend a 17.5" Night Train Bullit frame for someone with your measurements, but remember that sizing is a personal preference and the choice is ultimately up to the consumer.


----------



## jomobco (Jan 1, 2014)

OnThaCouch said:


> I have a Thule roof rack on my minivan (square tubes). Anyone know of a bike tray that will fit the Night Train Bullet (w/Bluto version)?


1UPUSA.com :: Fat Tire Spacer Kit (Silver)


----------



## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

beachbum1 said:


> I emailed bikes direct regarding the sizing question and below that is their answer for what it's worth.
> 
> My height is between 5'8 and 5'9( 5' 8" and 3/4 inches to be exact) My
> standover height is between 29 and 30 inches. I am interested in the
> ...


I'm your exact height and inseam, but may have shorter arms (31"), and bought the Borix X9 15". Anything bigger would have been too big, way too big. I did get a 400mm seat post and use all of it, and a riser for the bars. When I've bailed, I'm really glad that I had the extra stand over.


----------



## ptmar (Jun 4, 2014)

My Motobecane FB4 .


----------



## BigGDog (Oct 15, 2013)

Had there been any updates on the full suspension fatties from BD?


----------



## racer37 (Jun 23, 2014)

What makes up the $300 price difference from the Lurch to the Night Train(non bullet version)?


----------



## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

racer37 said:


> What makes up the $300 price difference from the Lurch to the Night Train(non bullet version)?


 Aluminum ALLOY 6061 FRAME vs CrMo (steel) FRAME
SRAM Guide RS HYDRAULIC DISC BRAKE vs AVID MECHANICAL DISC BRAKE
Thru-Axle 15x150mm/12x190mm vs 9mm QR

To start with

But Lurch comes out in August and Nighttrain will be October....so thats a bummer


----------



## oldbear52 (Jul 6, 2014)

I am considering a BD Gravity Bullseye Monster. I have a Trek Marlin SS 29er. it id 17 inches and I was wondering since I am 6 feet tall with an inseam of 33" . I am considering a matte black 18" model. My big question is, would it work for me? I had a slightly modified Dolomite that my son procured as his commuter bike. But would an !8 be ok?


----------



## crewjones (Aug 24, 2007)

if you had $900 max to spend on a fat bike from BD. Which would you buy and why?


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

crewjones said:


> if you had $900 max to spend on a fat bike from BD. Which would you buy and why?


Boris of choice or Lurch. the others are not contenders for the type of riding i want to use it for. I plan to use the fat bike year round. I have a similar budget and just ordered the Boris X7. I will add clipless peddles, and replace the tires with On One floaters... done. under 900, decent components. i just wish they had pictures of the other colors.

Lurch was the other option. i love steel frames for rigid bikes. components are good, there is room for 5 inch tires, tapered head tube.

it depends on what you want to do with the bike and what you value.


----------



## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

Aluminum is stiffer and lighter too so keep that in mind!


----------



## crewjones (Aug 24, 2007)

I'd be using it on dirt xc trails in SoCal maybe some rocky beach stuff. I plan to ride it pretty hard


----------



## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

BENKD29 said:


> Boris of choice or Lurch. the others are not contenders for the type of riding i want to use it for. I plan to use the fat bike year round. I have a similar budget and just ordered the Boris X7. I will add clipless peddles, and replace the tires with On One floaters... done. under 900, decent components. i just wish they had pictures of the other colors.
> 
> Lurch was the other option. i love steel frames for rigid bikes. components are good, there is room for 5 inch tires, thru-axles, tapered head tube.
> 
> it depends on what you want to do with the bike and what you value.


No thru axles on Lurch FYI.


----------



## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

siv said:


> No thru axles on Lurch FYI.


Meh. Given the wider spacing of fat hubs it will already be stiffer than a typical 26/29". I also don't foresee myself noticing the minuscule amount of frame/hub flex given the amount of tire flex on a fatbike.


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

siv said:


> No thru axles on Lurch FYI.


fixed it thanks


----------



## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

crewjones said:


> if you had $900 max to spend on a fat bike from BD. Which would you buy and why?


Lurch. Its a Surly Pug Op's with better components. Haha!


----------



## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

900 you go with the Boris x5 I think. Solid setup and use extra cash for accessories. I've seen closeouts on pugsleys for 900 at my LBS as well. Might want to check the lbs for closeouts.


----------



## pucelano (Oct 17, 2009)

ptmar said:


> My Motobecane FB4 .


Nice. What fork is that one?


----------



## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

I'm wondering if the mongoose fat bike would give the same experience as the lurch.


----------



## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

Kickngas said:


> Depends on what you mean by "experience". It rolls and will get you from point A to point B. However, the overall quality of the Mongoose along with the extra weight of the bike will ultimately leave you wanting more for your "experience". So, it really comes down to your intended use for the bike.


How much does the lurch weigh? I can't find the weight on the web site.


----------



## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

AdventureRider said:


> I'm wondering if the mongoose fat bike would give the same experience as the lurch.


Depends on what you mean by "experience". It rolls and will get you from point A to point B. However, the overall quality of the Mongoose along with the extra weight of the bike will ultimately leave you wanting more for your "experience". So, it really comes down to your intended use for the bike.


----------



## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

AdventureRider said:


> How much does the lurch weigh? I can't find the weight on the web site.


The X9 is around 33 so I think the Lurch may be 34? Trying to find the weight of the Pug Ops as it would be close to it.


----------



## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

My first generation Lrg Boris X9 was 35 w/ pedals. A Pugs is around 37
I would not be concerned about weight, buy what you like


----------



## crewjones (Aug 24, 2007)

rj, is see you're in SoCal and ride brown mtn. how does that fattie climb? is that your main bike for local trails?


----------



## SnowBound (Apr 1, 2007)

Question for all Motobecane fat bike owners... are the logos under a clear coat of paint or is it a sticker that can easily be peeled off?


----------



## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

AdventureRider said:


> I'm wondering if the mongoose fat bike would give the same experience as the lurch.


It depends on if you mean the Mongoose Dolomite...then no, not even close, total junk. If you mean the new Mongoose Argus, then who knows because no one knows much about it, but it appears to be nicely spec'd with SLX and real world fat bike components and geometry, "real" tires and 100mm rims. I'd rather deal with BD than a big box store for service issues. I think the lurch is still spec'd better.


----------



## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

SnowBound said:


> Question for all Motobecane fat bike owners... are the logos under a clear coat of paint or is it a sticker that can easily be peeled off?


I like to know this as well. Would love to paint over Motobecane or peel off the Motobecane sticker(s).


----------



## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

GaryH said:


> I like to know this as well. Would love to paint over Motobecane or peel off the Motobecane sticker(s).


 I have read that they started using clear over the stickers/paint in 2011....


----------



## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

Xpcgamer said:


> Lurch. Its a Surly Pug Op's with better components. Haha!


Yeah, SAMOX cranks are way better than Surly OD cranks.
Weinmann rims are way better than Surly Rolling Darryls or Marge Lites
Generic Novatec hubs beat out Shimano and Surly hubs.
Generic unnamed handlebar is better than Salsa ProMoto
Vee Snowshoes that sucked so much that they stopped production and redesigned the whole tire 3 months after initial release are way better than Surly Nates

But its got an x9 rear derailleur! That means it's a high quality build!


----------



## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

ultraspontane said:


> Yeah, SAMOX cranks are way better than Surly OD cranks.
> Weinmann rims are way better than Surly Rolling Darryls or Marge Lites
> Novatec hubs beat out Shimano and Surly hubs.
> Vee Snowshoes that sucked so much that they stopped production and redesigned the whole tire 3 months after initial release are way better than Surly Nates
> ...


Ultra, are you running the stock wheelset and crank on your Pugs ?

Pedaling


----------



## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

Dang. Ninja'd



rjedoaks said:


> Ultra, are you running the stock wheelset and crank on your Pugs ?
> 
> Pedaling


I bought my Pugsley back in the stone ages when the only tire choices were Endo and skinny Larry. Yep, I'm still running the stock crankset and bearings. They've been totally bombproof and weather resistant, as have the original Large Marge wheels that I sold to a friend that are still being ridden. Strongest wheelset ever.


----------



## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

ultraspontane said:


> Dang. Ninja'd


LOL, didn't think so

Pedaling


----------



## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

rjedoaks said:


> LOL, didn't think so
> 
> Pedaling


Ninja'd again!

See above.


----------



## racer37 (Jun 23, 2014)

Would the Lurch be better than the Boris in the snow? I mainly want a fat bike to use in the 20+ mile snow races in the area and didn't know how much the ability to fit the wider tires will help.


----------



## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

Ya I doubt it would make a difference. What PSI you run will make the most difference.


----------



## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

Playing the color game: Now Gold Digger has been replaced with GunMetalFlake Gray. I just wish the Strugis Bullet would come in Orange.


----------



## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

Got in early on with the Moto FB4 Elite, somewhat wish I had waited to see all these new bikes, but anyway.... has anyone put an On One Carbon Fatty Fork on their FB4? I think the black one might look okay. Just wondering how it rides...


----------



## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

ultraspontane said:


> Yeah, SAMOX cranks are way better than Surly OD cranks.
> Weinmann rims are way better than Surly Rolling Darryls or Marge Lites
> Generic Novatec hubs beat out Shimano and Surly hubs.
> Generic unnamed handlebar is better than Salsa ProMoto
> ...


The Pug Ops is almost 2200 bucks compared to 900. Thats a pretty big difference. I was planning on upgrading the wheel set and slapping on my Thompson Stem and Seat post. in time. The Lurch allows me to "get into" a fat bike cheaper. I live in an area that is not big on Fat bikes. I wish I could get a close out deal on a Salsa or a Surly but none of my lbs have any fat bikes in stock.


----------



## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

Xpcgamer said:


> The Pug Ops is almost 2200 bucks compared to 900. Thats a pretty big difference. I was planning on upgrading the wheel set and slapping on my Thompson Stem and Seat post. in time. The Lurch allows me to "get into" a fat bike cheaper. I live in an area that is not big on Fat bikes. I wish I could get a close out deal on a Salsa or a Surly but none of my lbs have any fat bikes in stock.


You should get the sturgis bullet. I would like to hear your review on it.


----------



## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

I just pulled the trigger on a Boris X7. Hopefully riding the fatty during the winter will prevent the accumulation of the 20 pounds of winter fat


----------



## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

How can you offer a bike for presale, charge you money, and then change the colors? What if I wanted gold digger? I'm leaning away from the there's-no-place-like-home-red-slipper color from the Wizard of Oz.



Kickngas said:


> Playing the color game: Now Gold Digger has been replaced with GunMetalFlake Gray. I just wish the Strugis Bullet would come in Orange.


----------



## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

OK waiting sucks. Tired of reading about everyone's love fest with fat bikes while I wait for my preorder here sigh


----------



## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

IN. Night Train Bullet, Matte Black 15.5...let the waiting begin.


----------



## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

OnThaCouch said:


> IN. Night Train Bullet, Matte Black 15.5...let the waiting begin.


I'm too lazy to go back through the threads, but I noticed you got the 15.5 frame. How tall are you and what is your inseam?

Gary


----------



## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

crewjones said:


> if you had $900 max to spend on a fat bike from BD. Which would you buy and why?


Boris X9 - better components and I love the way the frame looks. I'd probably swap out the brakes with hydraulics.

Since I want suspension, I'm going for the Night Train Bullet (> $900).
I struggled with waiting for a full suspension fat bike but I think it won't
buy me much and I'll have a better uphill experience riding a rigid rear w/front
shocks.

Gary


----------



## rdub315 (Apr 14, 2014)

neons97 said:


> They say they will charge you right away. So you'll be out the $$$ for 3 months.


It appears that if you use Paypal, you don't pay until after delivery.


----------



## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

Also with Paypal you can choose 6 payments interest free.


----------



## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

rdub315 said:


> It appears that if you use Paypal, you don't pay until after delivery.


I used PayPay and was charged by the next day...unfortunately, I did not take advantage of the 6 months no interest plan.


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

rdub315 said:


> It appears that if you use Paypal, you don't pay until after delivery.


i also used Paypal and it took the money out of my account the next day.


----------



## rdub315 (Apr 14, 2014)

BENKD29 said:


> i also used Paypal and it took the money out of my account the next day.


Hmm... Pay After Delivery is the only option I get. Maybe because my source of funding is a bank account?


----------



## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

GaryH said:


> I'm too lazy to go back through the threads, but I noticed you got the 15.5 frame. How tall are you and what is your inseam?
> 
> Gary


I am 5'8" with a 29" inseam. In looking at the numbers posted and the numbers referenced earlier in the thread compared to my current ride's numbers, I felt that the 15.5 was the way to go.

I currently ride a 17in. Speshy Rockhopper 29er Expert as a rigid (Craigslist special to get me back into mtb) that sometimes feels just a hair big. I also have a tough time getting my bars low enough for my taste. I think the 15.5 will fill the sweet spot on fit for me. YMMV.


----------



## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

beachbum1 said:


> How can you offer a bike for presale, charge you money, and then change the colors? What if I wanted gold digger? I'm leaning away from the there's-no-place-like-home-red-slipper color from the Wizard of Oz.


According to BD, they got a frame sample and the paint color was not satisfactory/what they expected so they rejected it and went with the gunmetal instead.


----------



## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

rdub315 said:


> Hmm... Pay After Delivery is the only option I get. Maybe because my source of funding is a bank account?


I never pay with my bank. Even though I have the cash to pay with it I always choose my plastic. That 2w if there is ever an issue I have the credit card company on my side as well as PayPal.


----------



## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

Gonna be interesting to see the specs of bikesdirects titanium fatbike models and prices. I'm hoping they sell their fat bike titanium framesets individually and unmarked for the purists.

Imagine a nicely spec'd out titanium fat bike for the price of a retail pugsley...


----------



## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

OnThaCouch said:


> IN. Night Train Bullet, Matte Black 15.5...let the waiting begin.


The waiting is the hardest part - Tom Petty

Im in the same boat, October seems so far away


----------



## tonyvt (Mar 26, 2010)

AdventureRider said:


> Gonna be interesting to see the specs of bikesdirects titanium fatbike models and prices. I'm hoping they sell their fat bike titanium framesets individually and unmarked for the purists.
> 
> Imagine a nicely spec'd out titanium fat bike for the price of a retail pugsley...


^^^^^^^^^Hopefully Bikes Direct is listening!^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## rdub315 (Apr 14, 2014)

Pics of Matte Silver Night Train and WR Green non-Bluto Sturgis now up on BD site.


----------



## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

rdub315 said:


> Pics of matte silver Night Train and WR Green non-Bluto Sturgis now up on BD site.


Those "pics" are most certainly photoshopped, but at least they are close to how the painted bike will look. The Night Train matte silver looks white. BD stated pics of the real bikes in different colors should be up by September.


----------



## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

AdventureRider said:


> Gonna be interesting to see the specs of bikesdirects titanium fatbike models and prices. I'm hoping they sell their fat bike titanium framesets individually and unmarked for the purists.
> 
> Imagine a nicely spec'd out titanium fat bike for the price of a retail pugsley...


I was hoping to hold out for Ti but figured it would be outside my budget at this time. Still looking forward to seeing what they come up with and what the price points are...maybe I'll have to start saving my ducets for the Night Train's replacement :thumbsup:


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

OnThaCouch said:


> I was hoping to hold out for Ti but figured it would be outside my budget at this time. Still looking forward to seeing what they come up with and what the price points are...maybe I'll have to start saving my ducets for the Night Train's replacement :thumbsup:


im pretty satisfied with the bullseye monster with upgrades for now. im waiting for a FS fat bike with a bit more travel to be my main bike for FR DH stuffs, so i can have 2 fat bikes, 1 with rigid fork for general riding the FS for everything else. hopfully it happens soon.


----------



## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

I ordered a Night Train Saturday and still haven't received an email or anything from Bikes Direct, I emailed them Tuesday morning and still nothing. Sup wit that?


----------



## gjbiker (Oct 21, 2007)

Check your spam box. The last (time before last) time I ordered from them that's where mine was. I ordered a NT Bullet last week and this time it didn't go to the spam box.


----------



## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

siv said:


> I ordered a Night Train Saturday and still haven't received an email or anything from Bikes Direct, I emailed them Tuesday morning and still nothing. Sup wit that?


Ordered my Sturgis last Thurs and just got the confirmation this morning, so hang in there.


----------



## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

siv said:


> I ordered a Night Train Saturday and still haven't received an email or anything from Bikes Direct, I emailed them Tuesday morning and still nothing. Sup wit that?


Just got mine today, its going to be shipped on 10/18. BTW I ordered it last thursday.


----------



## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

siv said:


> I ordered a Night Train Saturday and still haven't received an email or anything from Bikes Direct, I emailed them Tuesday morning and still nothing. Sup wit that?


Me three! :cornut:Just got the email this morning. Oct seems so far away right now :smallviolin: 1st world problems, right?


----------



## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

rdub315 said:


> Pics of Matte Silver Night Train and WR Green non-Bluto Sturgis now up on BD site.


I like that green. a lot.


----------



## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

Anybody notice that the motobecane logo on the black lurch is shorter than the rest of the other colors.....?


----------



## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

AdventureRider said:


> Anybody notice that the motobecane logo on the black lurch is shorter than the rest of the other colors.....?


That's because the black is the only true picture. The others are all photochopped & they didn't match the size properly.


----------



## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

OnThaCouch said:


> Me three! :cornut:Just got the email this morning. Oct seems so far away right now :smallviolin: 1st world problems, right?


Yeah, got it today too. Shipping weight 30 lbs, how great would that be.


----------



## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Well on my Facebook feed, singletrack.com has there hands on a night train bullet and there is a picture of it, it just says more details to come....


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Looks good but UGH!! already with the double wall rims. 
BD (on FB) said that they'd ship with single wall. The double wall are overkill and add unnecessary rotational weight. Who knows what will actually ship.


----------



## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

How can you tell by looking that they're double wall?


----------



## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Lots of tells..

You can see the seperation between the inner wall and the outer wall. If you look at the holes in the top of the rim, you can see the rim material that seperates the two walls vertically.

I own a DHL80 (double wall), and three HL80s (singlewall), so I am familiar with spotting this subtle difference. Also, rim tape is less recessed (even at very low PSIs) on the single wall rims.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

i wouldn't mind a double wall rim. i know several people who have bent/taco'ed single wall fat rims (specifically Darrells) when they hit rocks aired down too low. although i'm pretty rough on my stuff and might not be the best example, i will take strength over weight (or lack thereof) every time.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

sml-2727 said:


> Well on my Facebook feed, singletrack.com has there hands on a night train bullet and there is a picture of it, it just says more details to come....


Can I look up your feed on FB?
Edit-Found it!


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

I am hoping the Lurch has double wall. I'm more concerned with durability than weight for a fat bike though.


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## RobKong (Jun 7, 2010)

AdventureRider said:


> I am hoping the Lurch has double wall. I'm more concerned with durability than weight for a fat bike though.


Website says single wall...


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## backcountryeti (May 21, 2004)

Thanks to this thread, I now want a Moto Lurch. Seems pretty solid, especially for the price. Looking forward to seeing some pics and reports on these bikes out in the real world.


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

RobKong said:


> Website says single wall...


Well I could probably use less rotational weight for the riding I do then. I don't plan on doing any stunts, technical ridiculous riding, mostly light expedition one week touring. Lots of hard pack, definitely roads, and sand/beach. I mean I would think a single wall will be fine considering you basically have an air suspension with these huge tires but not sure. Anyone tour with single wall rims before?


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## hedz0r (Jul 17, 2013)

18" Metallic Grey Lurch ordered... man I don't know if I can wait until late August for this one!


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## treym563 (Jul 24, 2014)

hedz0r said:


> 18" Metallic Grey Lurch ordered... man I don't know if I can wait until late August for this one!


I hear ya brother. Ordered the same bike a couple weeks ago, I keep waiting for a miraculous "your bike is shipping early" email. :madman:


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

treym563 said:


> I hear ya brother. Ordered the same bike a couple weeks ago, I keep waiting for a miraculous "your bike is shipping early" email. :madman:


in my experience they are pretty accurate with the date estimations. i waited 2 months for my bullseye monster.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

hedz0r said:


> 18" Metallic Grey Lurch ordered... man I don't know if I can wait until late August for this one!


I wish my wait was August, the nighttrain wont ship til october 17th


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## ShopJerk (Jul 24, 2014)

Depending on which way the wind blows, I keep changing my mind about getting the NightTrain or a Spec Fatboy. 

Today, after seeing the pic in post #2438 , I realized it's the tires that are causing my indecision. 

I like the components of the Train better. Dimensionally, the two bikes are nearly a wash. But I reeeeaaally am hating on those Snowshoes, and I'm reeeeaaally liking the Ground Controls! 

The Specialized site specifically calls out "hookless design" for their wheels. And looking at Weinmann's site, the HL80 wheel looks to have a hook. Does anyone know if tires are also "hook", or "hookless"? Ultimately, my budget route would be to get the BD NT, and stuff those Spesh Ground Control tires on it.

Thanks in advance.
Jason


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

ShopJerk said:


> Depending on which way the wind blows, I keep changing my mind about getting the NightTrain or a Spec Fatboy.
> 
> Today, after seeing the pic in post #2438 , I realized it's the tires that are causing my indecision.
> 
> ...


I hear nothing but bad news with the ground controls when it comes to snow, I have them on my 29er (i know completely different bike) but fwiw there good on hard dirt and decent in mud.

I'm a specialized fanboy and when I took the fatboy out for a spin I really wanted it, but for 2000 its just not worth it compared to the nighttrain, yeah its going to take me close to 3 months to get it, but in the end I think I made the right decision.


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## ShopJerk (Jul 24, 2014)

sml-2727 said:


> I hear nothing but bad news with the ground controls when it comes to snow, I have them on my 29er (i know completely different bike) but fwiw there good on hard dirt and decent in mud.
> 
> I'm a specialized fanboy and when I took the fatboy out for a spin I really wanted it, but for 2000 its just not worth it compared to the nighttrain, yeah its going to take me close to 3 months to get it, but in the end I think I made the right decision.


I test road the Farley and Fatboy back-2-back. Loved the Fatboy. Love the green bits on the Farley, but not enough to buy it.

With the Fatboy, I could see additional costs of shifters, brakes, stem, saddle, and maybe the post. God blessed me with short legs/long torso, so it felt slightly compact.

With the Train, I'm digging everything but the tires.....and the 3mos. wait. Also, I suffer from a slight hesitation in buying something sight unseen.

FWIW, I won't be riding in snow. All dirt, gravel, sand, etc. Trail riding through wooded parks, with occasional pavement pounding.

I'm still curious about this "hooked/hookless" lingo...


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## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

So, with both Sturgis and Night Train available with the Bluto, what is the consensus or justification for getting either in the "Bullet" version? Is a FS fork necessary on a Fat Tire bike seeing as how the tires soak up most terrain? Also, will the Bluto flex too much with their small diameter stations? I am sure it will depend on how and where they will be ridden, but other than basically getting a $600 fork for $300, I am curious what you guys would do.


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

Well, there's definitely not a consensus on whether people or should or shouldn't get a Bluto. The Bluto is obviously a great deal with these bikes, though. Personally, I am not getting a Bluto. I'm getting the rigid NightTrain. I already own a nice 29er hardtail for summer riding, and my fatbike will primarily be for riding in the snow, so I don't want suspension on it at this time. 

As for the Snowshoe tires, I've read a few good reviews on them from people who've tried them in the snow. This is far better than the Missions, for which I have yet to read a single good review on their use in the snow. This is why I am not purchasing any bike with Mission tires. I've ridden my 29er in the snow with some success using Kenda Nevegals. I maintain that it's not about the bike as much as it is about the rider. That said, a good rider on a fatbike can do some serious damage in the snow.  There's a lot of variability with fat tires as far as PSI and the snow conditions. I've ridden a number of fatbikes in the snow, and I like what I see from the current BD offerings. I think the Boris (with suitable replacement tires), Lurch, Sturgis and NightTrain would be very comparable to any entry-level fatbike at your LBS. 

I think the Sturgis and Night Train compare best to the Fatboy. There are some minor component differences. It looks like Specialized has done a better job of getting the weight down on the Fatboy, but sacrificed in other areas. The Fatboy is going up to $2,100 this fall, so the NT seemed like a great alternative. With its wide hubs, the Night Train can be upgraded to any wheelset and tire that I want. With its tapered headtube, I can put on a Bluto later if I want. It's got a great spec sheet and a good price. Winner winner, chicken dinner.


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## RobKong (Jun 7, 2010)

FYI there's an impending longshoreman strike, which will likely result in the August deliveries being delayed...


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## oldbear52 (Jul 6, 2014)

*Delivery Dates*

 I called BD this afternoon to check on whether or not the gravity bullseye monster is in stock. The girl on the line said yes they are and they will ship the day after the order is placed and paid for. :thumbsup: I wish I could afford the Nighttrain but I am on a fixed income and can't afford one now. I ride daily and had a walgoose dolo but I gave it to my son to ride. I fell in love with Fat Bikes two years ago when I discovered that they can go through sand, loose gravel asnd snow easily. Currently I rode a 29er singlespeed and I am going to get a fatty as soon as possible.


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## gravitylover (Sep 1, 2009)

sml-2727 said:


> I hear nothing but bad news with the ground controls when it comes to snow, I have them on my 29er (i know completely different bike) but fwiw there good on hard dirt and decent in mud.
> .


What? I thought they were fantastic in the snow. I was still pedaling while others on fatties were waiting for me to turn around. I never did, I had the green so they had to walk and catch up to me at the top of the hill  The other tires in the group were Nates, Bud/Lou and Knards. The GC's also *rip* summer conditions and are acceptable in the mud.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

> RobKong said:
> 
> 
> > FYI there's an impending longshoreman strike, which will likely result in the August deliveries being delayed...]
> ...


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

BENKD29 said:


> > Where do you get your information? what do you mean by longshoreman? more info please.
> 
> 
> The dockworkers are currently working beyond their contract; it expired July 1, I think. So at any time during negotiation, they could all walk and shut down/cripple the west coast ports.
> ...


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## ShopJerk (Jul 24, 2014)

ShopJerk said:


> I'm still curious about this "hooked/hookless" lingo...


Little bit of reading this morning found that "hookless" seems to relate to the rim only. Tires are tires, are tires.

A Night Train with Ground Control tires will keep my boat afloat!


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

Argh... the only reason I haven't ordered yet is because I can't figure out if I should order a 15.0 or 17.5 in frame. I've never ordered such a small frame size - 15.0 in, but multiple people said the 17.5 is too big for them. I wonder if that's because the big tires make the bike seem bigger?


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

oldbear52 said:


> I called BD this afternoon to check on whether or not the gravity bullseye monster is in stock. The girl on the line said yes they are and they will ship the day after the order is placed and paid for. :thumbsup: ...I am going to get a fatty as soon as possible.


Welcome to team Bullseye :thumbsup:


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

GaryH said:


> Argh... the only reason I haven't ordered yet is because I can't figure out if I should order a 15.0 or 17.5 in frame. I've never ordered such a small frame size - 15.0 in, but multiple people said the 17.5 is too big for them. I wonder if that's because the big tires make the bike seem bigger?


BD is pretty good about customer satisfaction. I would just pick one, and if you decide that you made the wrong choice, send it back and swap for the other one. i'm one of those guys who got an 18" and feel like in hindsight i should have gotten a 16", but im having so much fun that i would rather just ride it. after a short stem and trimmed seat post it fit's well enough and i dont regret anything.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

GaryH said:


> Argh... the only reason I haven't ordered yet is because I can't figure out if I should order a 15.0 or 17.5 in frame. I've never ordered such a small frame size - 15.0 in, but multiple people said the 17.5 is too big for them. I wonder if that's because the big tires make the bike seem bigger?


Bike companies have always suggested a size medium (17") for me. 5'8 3/4" with a 30" inseam. They've always been too big. I ordered a Boris X9 in a 15" and glad I did it. Fits perfectly with a 400mm seatpost. If you're concerned that it's a bit short you can order an offset seatpost, move your seat back, and work with a different headset (all cheap fixes). I knew right off the bat that I didn't want to high center the boys in snow or mud, or roots and rocks for that matter.


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## oldbear52 (Jul 6, 2014)

*Team Bullseye*

 Dirtdawg: Thanks! I am getting an 18 for my size. I am 6' 3/4" 286 32" inseam My other bike ids a Trek Marlin Single speed in an med frame size. I just can't wait until the first!:thumbsup:


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

Bumpyride said:


> Bike companies have always suggested a size medium (17") for me. 5'8 3/4" with a 30" inseam. They've always been too big. I ordered a Boris X9 in a 15" and glad I did it. Fits perfectly with a 400mm seatpost. If you're concerned that it's a bit short you can order an offset seatpost, move your seat back, and work with a different headset (all cheap fixes). I knew right off the bat that I didn't want to high center the boys in snow or mud, or roots and rocks for that matter.


BumpyRide,
Thanks for your reponse.
I'm going to go to my LBS to try a small and medium salsa for size. I hope they corrolate.

Gary


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

While I too am buying a BD bike, I think its pretty weak to waste the local bike shops time by test riding their bikes for size only to knowingly buy a BD bike.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

watermonkey said:


> While I too am buying a BD bike, I think its pretty weak to waste the local bike shops time by test riding their bikes for size only to knowingly buy a BD bike.


Not necessarily. I would do the same since I spend money at the LBS for other items as well as getting my rig serviced. I wouldn't go in giving the impression that I was doing more than kicking the tires either.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

GaryH said:


> BumpyRide,
> Thanks for your reponse.
> I'm going to go to my LBS to try a small and medium salsa for size. I hope they corrolate.
> 
> Gary


If the Sturgis and Night Train are supposed to be correlated to the Speshy Fat Boy you might want to try that for a size comparison as opposed to the Salsa.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Anyone know where to get a rigid fork for the Night Train (tapered/150mm spacing/15mm thru axle)? I asked BD and they are not selling the forks separate. Looking at options if I wanted to run a rigid front.


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## RobKong (Jun 7, 2010)

watermonkey said:


> While I too am buying a BD bike, I think its pretty weak to waste the local bike shops time by test riding their bikes for size only to knowingly buy a BD bike.


I tend to agree. I know I'm buying a BD fattie, so I don't think it's right to use the LBS as a showroom like that.


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

OnThaCouch said:


> Anyone know where to get a rigid fork for the Night Train (tapered/150mm spacing/15mm thru axle)? I asked BD and they are not selling the forks separate. Looking at options if I wanted to run a rigid front.


The regular NightTrain is a rigid fork, correct? Bullet = Bluto

Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Boris X9 SRAM


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

FatBikeNoob said:


> The regular NightTrain is a rigid fork, correct? Bullet = Bluto


Correct. I am getting the "Bullet" version with the Bluto installed. Just wanted to see what my options are for a rigid front end without having to have a front with 135 hubs.


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

RobKong said:


> I tend to agree. I know I'm buying a BD fattie, so I don't think it's right to use the LBS as a showroom like that.


I also tend to agree, but they are having a demo on all their fattie bikes tomorrow. I'm going to ride them all so why not? And I rode them when they had the demo three months ago. Whether or no I buy from BD, I would have been there anyways.

Plus, I've spend some cold hard cash there before and thousands cumulatively at all the local bikes shops where I live.


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## RobKong (Jun 7, 2010)

GaryH said:


> I also tend to agree, but they are having a demo on all their fattie bikes tomorrow. I'm going to ride them all so why not? And I rode them when they had the demo three months ago. Whether or no I buy from BD, I would have been there anyways.
> 
> Plus, I've spend some cold hard cash there before and thousands cumulatively at all the local bikes shops where I live.


I love demos and would also be there regardless of if I was actually in the market. You have my blessing


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## SUNA (Jul 26, 2014)

I was on the verge of ordering a 2015 Salsa Mukluk 2 until I saw the NightTrain Bullet's price.

I'm Canada...never heard of these guys. Quality bikes and parts? Any border issues? Still a bit of a newb and would appreciate the insight.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

OnThaCouch said:


> Correct. I am getting the "Bullet" version with the Bluto installed. Just wanted to see what my options are for a rigid front end without having to have a front with 135 hubs.


Just buy the rigid model . The Bluto can be had for under 550.00. Any rigid fork will cost around 300.00. Probably a push if you are going rigid also. Plus finding a 150 front at this point and time will be challenging.

Pedaling


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

Bike Size Question again:
Exactly which part of the bike is actually 15.5 or 17.0 inches when we refer to these sizes?
It's always been kinda vague to me, but I'm really interested in finding out now for obvious reasons .
Thanks,
Gary


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Seat tube
Basically from the Bottom bracket center to the top of the ST


Pedaling


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

rjedoaks said:


> Seat tube
> Basically from the Bottom bracket center to the top of the ST
> 
> Pedaling


That's what I thought but it appears not in this chart:

https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/sturgis-night-geo.gif

BUT, i realize they mean 15.5in not 15.0 inches.

Thanks rjedoaks!


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

BB to ground is BD speak for BB height 


Pedaling


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

RobKong said:


> I tend to agree. I know I'm buying a BD fattie, so I don't think it's right to use the LBS as a showroom like that.


I actually did this, went and tested a 2014 fatboy, but I did ask them if they would price match the 1200 price of the night train and they could not. So I ordered a NT.


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## Chris_F97 (Sep 2, 2013)

sml-2727 said:


> I actually did this, went and tested a 2014 fatboy, but I did ask them if they would price match the 1200 price of the night train and they could not. So I ordered a NT.


Yeah, what a pain. My Mercedes dealer wouldn't price match an S class with the price of a KIA Optima. Greedy jerks.


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

sml-2727 said:


> I actually did this, went and tested a 2014 fatboy, but I did ask them if they would price match the 1200 price of the night train and they could not. So I ordered a NT.


Please tell me you're kidding


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

Chris_F97 said:


> Yeah, what a pain. My Mercedes dealer wouldn't price match an S class with the price of a KIA Optima. Greedy jerks.


What makes the specialized better though. I thought the night train has better specs.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

wookie said:


> Please tell me you're kidding


Yeah I think he had to be. Also will the Sturgis take a Blue bolt on? Does the hub and thru axle work with it?


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## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

AdventureRider said:


> What makes the specialized better though. I thought the night train has better specs.


Specialized would most likely have the better frame, but by in large the components are the same with exception of hubs, cranks, headset. Also, the quality gap between the Specialized and Motobecane is not near the HUGE gap between Mercedes and Kia....not even comparable.
I have two Specialized bikes in my stable and rode a Fat Boy for a few days recently, but I ordered a Sturgis for half of what the Fat Boy costs.


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## Chris_F97 (Sep 2, 2013)

AdventureRider said:


> What makes the specialized better though. I thought the night train has better specs.


A bike is nothing but a frame with components bolted on, IMO it's the frame that makes the bike. For some bikes (like road bikes) the frame is a huge factor in the quality of the bike. I wouldn't ask a bike dealer to price match two dissimilar bike brands, it's just silly and insulting. Brand cache wise the merc and KIA thing holds although these two bike aren't that far apart. They are however different price and it's unreasonable to expect a dealer to match. Seems to me the poster just wasted the shop's time and used them.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Chris_F97 said:


> A bike is nothing but a frame with components bolted on, IMO it's the frame that makes the bike. For some bikes (like road bikes) the frame is a huge factor in the quality of the bike. I wouldn't ask a bike dealer to price match two dissimilar bike brands, it's just silly and insulting. Brand cache wise the merc and KIA thing holds although these two bike aren't that far apart. They are however different price and it's unreasonable to expect a dealer to match. Seems to me the poster just wasted the shop's time and used them.


I agree with this assessment. However, I believe the intent of the original poster wasn't so much as having them price match as much as saying "if you can come close to this price, I will buy your bike." I do not believe that is an unreasonable position to have based on what I see from these two bikes and some of the price discounts we see in this industry.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Chris_F97 said:


> A bike is nothing but a frame with components bolted on, IMO it's the frame that makes the bike. For some bikes (like road bikes) the frame is a huge factor in the quality of the bike. I wouldn't ask a bike dealer to price match two dissimilar bike brands, it's just silly and insulting. Brand cache wise the merc and KIA thing holds although these two bike aren't that far apart. They are however different price and it's unreasonable to expect a dealer to match. Seems to me the poster just wasted the shop's time and used them.


Since you are so distraught on what I said let me please clarify some of it for you, First off how many times have you gone to a car lot to test ride a car but not buy the car, im sure a few times at least, so you must of "wasted his time".

When I went into the empty shop and started to look at bikes one of the four guys BS'ing asked me "Can I help you?" I said, "I would like to check out this Fatboy" he said "sure thing" so he pulls the bike out and asked me " Do you want to take it outside for a spin,there a lot of fun" I said "sure why not" he then goes ahead and raises the seat for me and such. He wheels it outside and said " have fun" I rode it around the lot for about 2-3 minutes and stopped. He asks me " So what do you think?" I said " Its really nice, this is a 2014 model?" he was like " yeah we had to bring it in from another shop, some other guy wanted it but it has been sitting here all year." So i ask " How much would you be willing to come down off that price since the 2015's will be showing up soon" 
He says " I'm not sure, what are you looking to pay?" I said " Well I have been looking at a few other fatbikes and one that I like is 1200, could you come down that low?"

He said " Probably not just yet, but if we do get a 2015 in, im sure we will reduce this bike"

I said, " Thanks for the ride its a nice bike" he said " Sure no problem, have a nice day"

Does this clarify things better?


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## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

sml...simple case of "kicking the tires". I don't blame you....your money, and why should you pay retail...ever? You are validated especially since your logic is spot on about the new models coming out soon. Go ahead and order a BD Fatty....and settle in for the long wait like I am.


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## FoShizzle (Jan 18, 2004)

Kickngas said:


> Specialized would most likely have the better frame, but by in large the components are the same with exception of hubs, cranks, headset. Also, the quality gap between the Specialized and Motobecane is not near the HUGE gap between Mercedes and Kia....not even comparable.
> I have two Specialized bikes in my stable and rode a Fat Boy for a few days recently, but I ordered a Sturgis for half of what the Fat Boy costs.


Specialized is the closest thing in the bike industry that exists to a toolbag of a corporate whore so i would rather have a motobecane than a specialized even at the same price. my fun factor would be no different anyway plus, i would not look like such a sheep at the trailhead on a bike other than a specialized.

I also hope Harley sues these douchebags for using the name Fatboy


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## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

Guess Harley has to go after Motobecane for Night Train as well. Different products can have the same name, but since both have wheels and handlebars, they may have a case.


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## FoShizzle (Jan 18, 2004)

Kickngas said:


> Guess Harley has to go after Motobecane for Night Train as well. Different products can have the same name, but since both have wheels and handlebars, they may have a case.


fair point though i dont own a night train and like motobecane so wont make them aware of that one


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Kickngas said:


> Specialized would most likely have the better frame, but by in large the components are the same with exception of hubs, cranks, headset. Also, the quality gap between the Specialized and Motobecane is not near the HUGE gap between Mercedes and Kia....not even comparable.
> I have two Specialized bikes in my stable and rode a Fat Boy for a few days recently, but I ordered a Sturgis for half of what the Fat Boy costs.


Kenesis, Meridia..name that frame factory in Taiwan, they are all good. I too have 2 specialized in my stable, the most recent is a Camber 29er. Last week I ordered a Boris X7. I should have gotten off the Specialized kool-aid before I bought my Camber and went with a Motobecane Fantom 29er Sram X9....a lot more bang for the buck.


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## FoShizzle (Jan 18, 2004)

radnur22 said:


> Kenesis, Meridia..name that frame factory in Taiwan, they are all good. I too have 2 specialized in my stable, the most recent is a Camber 29er. Last week I ordered a Boris X7. I should have gotten off the Specialized kool-aid before I bought my Camber and went with a Motobecane Fantom 29er Sram X9....a lot more bang for the buck.


We have all drank kool aid of some flavor and unless retarded, at some point realize this fact indeed with the best part being we stop wasting money

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Hmmmm....Samox cranks. I wonder if there is a compatible 26t or 28t chainring option for a 1 by 10 setup. I guess I could go with a 42 rear cog if I have to.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

FoShizzle said:


> We have all drank kool aid of some flavor and unless retarded, at some point realize this fact indeed with the best part being we stop wasting money
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Please enlighten me on the Specialized thing? I have had 2 different Specialized bikes and always liked them. I feel like a smuck now. I have been drunk of the Kool Aid apparently.


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

Sturgis Bullet or Night train? Is the Night Train worth the extra?

On the other hand maybe this would be good first purchase. Would the bluto fit this if decided to add it later. Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Boris X9 SRAM I kind of like the lower frame style.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

Cody01 said:


> Sturgis Bullet or Night train? Is the Night Train worth the extra?
> 
> On the other hand maybe this would be good first purchase. Would the bluto fit this if decided to add it later. Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Boris X9 SRAM I kind of like the lower frame style.


if you planning to buy a fat bike and upgrade, its almost silly for not buying a nighttrain bullet at $1500. boris x9 is $800. now it looks like almost half of the price. nighttrain bullet has a supension fork and much better components all together. a $800 x9 plus a $600 bluto is $1400. that leaves $100 differences between the 2. if you like how x9 frame looks its another story


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Cody01 said:


> Sturgis Bullet or Night train? Is the Night Train worth the extra?
> 
> On the other hand maybe this would be good first purchase. Would the bluto fit this if decided to add it later. Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Boris X9 SRAM I kind of like the lower frame style.


The Boris is not a tapered head tube. The Bluto needs a tapered head tube.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Just ordered my night train bullet in matte silver. The agonizing 3 month wait begins.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

neons97 said:


> Just ordered my night train bullet in matte silver. The agonizing 3 month wait begins.


Welcome to the club


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

I think the night train bullet seems to be the biggest bargain with that fork. The price tag on the bluto fork outside is over $600! That's a pretty absurd price for a fork. The high end bike stuff really is getting out of hand I think.


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

I've been waiting 2 months now for a Boris X9 that would be shipping in a couple of weeks, but I upgraded that order to a Night Train Bullet. So now I get to wait 3 more months... arghhhhh :madman:


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

I think I made up my mind. Boris X9. This leaves me wiggle room to upgrade to a Lefty. Now just to nail down a Lefty set up .


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

same here, looking for a lefty fork for a boris. they're available but not cheap. can't wait though. is it August 15th yet? 

Got my on-one floaters and foam strips ready to mount up tubeless. along with reflective tape. 

can't wait to show up on the trail with this thing!!!


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

Sarma Hoboy Carbon Fork + 180mm rotor adapter will be arriving tomorrow. 5mm less axle to crown than the stock FB4 Elite fork, aka "The Creaker", that it is replacing. Installing this week and will update my findings. Looking forward to riding on the trails again without all the front-end chatter. A little carbon flex in the fork on descents will be welcome, as well.

The more I rode on the stock fork, the more often I heard the creak (it seemed to get more sensitive to it), and the louder it got. After the last trail session, I didn't feel safe.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Has anyone used the interest free financing option through Paypal?


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## GalenCopes (Dec 5, 2013)

rjedoaks said:


> Has anyone used the interest free financing option through Paypal?


I used it when I bought my Minnesota 2.0. No payment required for the first 6 months...but if you don't pay it off completely, I believe they charge you interest on entire amount from day one. I paid my balance off on the 5th month just to be sure not to miss my due date by a day or two.

Galen


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

GalenCopes said:


> I used it when I bought my Minnesota 2.0. No payment required for the first 6 months...but if you don't pay it off completely, I believe they charge you interest on entire amount from day one. I paid my balance off on the 5th month just to be sure not to miss my due date by a day or two.
> 
> Galen


Damn I thought they just spilt it up into 6 interest free payments and if you missed a payment or didn't pay by the due date they just pulled it out of the CC you have on file. No?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

My favorite thing about this thread is not relevant talk about BD fatbikes, but everyone's take on how to pay their bills....totally fascinating, great to read. Thanks for sharing. Stay on target.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

watermonkey said:


> My favorite thing about this thread is not relevant talk about BD fatbikes, but everyone's take on how to pay their bills....totally fascinating, great to read. Thanks for sharing. Stay on target.


Half a page of broken Paypal payment talk of a 101 page thread is off topic? Anyway
How sweet would a Boris X9 with a lefty max be


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

SocratesDiedTrolling said:


> Got in early on with the Moto FB4 Elite, somewhat wish I had waited to see all these new bikes, but anyway.... has anyone put an On One Carbon Fatty Fork on their FB4? I think the black one might look okay. Just wondering how it rides...


won't work unless you change to a front hub with rear disc spacing.

Compatible forks (front disc spacing, and straight steerer) are Sarma Carbon Hoboy, White Brothers Snow Pack, and Carver O'Beast.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

I've been watching this thread for around a year now - can anybody report whether or not the BD prices have actually gone up on any of the fat bikes, as they always seem to mention "special/pre-order" pricing?

Another hundy on a Lurch is still a great value, but I don't want to pay that if I don't have to.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Any 150mm spaced carbon after market forks out there? Just wondering to lighten up my eventual Night Train.


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

tyriverag said:


> I've been watching this thread for around a year now - can anybody report whether or not the BD prices have actually gone up on any of the fat bikes, as they always seem to mention "special/pre-order" pricing?
> 
> Another hundy on a Lurch is still a great value, but I don't want to pay that if I don't have to.


Prices have not gone up. The price on the Borix X9 dropped, but it now uses a fork without the extra mounts that the original ones had. I believe the others have stayed the same. Of course, they have offered many new options in the last 8 months. The cheapest option is the Gravity Bullseye Monster. People who have them know they are not the best out there, but they seem to like them.


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## hoobash (Oct 2, 2007)

Yup the wait totally BLOWS!!! Only 3-4 weeks till the lurch comes


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

FoafInTX said:


> ...The cheapest option is the Gravity Bullseye Monster. People who have them know they are not the best out there, but they seem to like them.


I like mine. for $500 i don't think it could possibly be any better. i would argue that from a fun-per-dollar standpoint it may be the best deal out there. :thumbsup:


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## MattNorv (Jun 1, 2013)

is anyone looking at getting a set of 29 wheels for the nighttrain or sturgis bullet models?


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## mannys (Jul 30, 2014)

Hi. I will be looking to get 29 wheels eventually.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm looking at a night train bullet, and I'm wondering how good, or bad, bikes direct is at hitting their projected ship dates, historically. My buddy went through the fatboy delivery date debacle, before cancelling his order. don't want to sell my rig, and be without a fat bike for the winter.


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## GalenCopes (Dec 5, 2013)

AllMountin' said:


> I'm looking at a night train bullet, and I'm wondering how good, or bad, bikes direct is at hitting their projected ship dates, historically. My buddy went through the fatboy delivery date debacle, before cancelling his order. don't want to sell my rig, and be without a fat bike for the winter.


From what I have seen, they are usually pretty darned close to their shipping dates. They seem to have their act together.

I was considering the Night Train Bullet, but I think I am going to wait to see if they put out a carbon version in a couple of months. I know Framed has one coming, so I ASSUME that Bikes Direct won't let them have all the fun!

Galen


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## MattNorv (Jun 1, 2013)

mannys said:


> Hi. I will be looking to get 29 wheels eventually.


Are you going to build them yourself or go through someone else. It looks like they may need to be custom to get the correct dishing, right? How much do you think they will set you back?

Also, what are the main differences between the nighttrain and sturgis (bullet models)? It looks like the nighttrain has better shifters, rear derailluer, and brakes. Is this correct?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

MattNorv said:


> Are you going to build them yourself or go through someone else. It looks like they may need to be custom to get the correct dishing, right? How much do you think they will set you back?
> 
> Also, what are the main differences between the nighttrain and sturgis (bullet models)? It looks like the nighttrain has better shifters, rear derailluer, and brakes. Is this correct?


Looks like BD may be selling a set themselves. The following is directly from the Night Train Bullet product page:

NOTE: We will be selling 29er wheels that are compatible with these 150/190mm thru-axle frames

I will probably just be ordering those next summer.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## treym563 (Jul 24, 2014)

Anyone seen the BD Facebook page? They just posted that the Lurch is on the way to their warehouse.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

Yep, just saw that!


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## treym563 (Jul 24, 2014)

Wonder how long it takes to get to their warehouse.


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## gjbiker (Oct 21, 2007)

treym563 said:


> Wonder how long it takes to get to their warehouse.


By boat across the Pacific Ocean


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

After back and forth ICT/Spec.,I finally ordered a black Lurch a couple days ago. Now I may change colors which look great. Orange /Purple
Yeah, I don't think they meant anyday


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

After following this thread a ton and exercising lots of indecision, I finally placed my order for a Night Train Bullet. I would have preferred a Lurch with Bluto; steel, and the colors are much cooler. But the Night Train Bullet is so cheap, the components seem great, and matte black isn't terrible. Now for the wait!


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## ShopJerk (Jul 24, 2014)

First Ride: 2015 Motobecane NightTrain Bullet Fatbike | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog

Guess I was a little off thinking this would be <35lbs


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

ShopJerk said:


> First Ride: 2015 Motobecane NightTrain Bullet Fatbike | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog
> 
> Guess I was a little off thinking this would be <35lbs


Yeah, kinda disappointing. And this 'review' that I've been waiting for still uses parts different from the final build. This article reminded me how much I hate the idea of _some_ of the cabling being internally routed: not all the cables, for smoothness, and not none of them, for ease of repair. Just some.

Unless the frame is of terrible quality (unlikely, given the connections BikesDirect has in that area) I cannot imagine how the bike would be a bad value.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

I'm confused; the weight is more than I would have thought. It's not like they skimped on cheap/heavy parts too much. Are double wall rims that much heavier than single wall?

I would have thought the Lurch would be around 37, with the Night Train right around 34ish.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I just ordered a Night Train Bullet this week. Too late to cancel my order?

I think there's something very wrong with the weight in this review.

I did a component by component breakdown of the manufacturers claimed weights. I made an assumption for:

1.) Frame Weight of 2000g / 4.4lbs
2.) Heavy generic cockpit components (Post, Stem, Bar total of 950g)
3.) Samox Crankset/BB weight of 1,100g (X5 is 959g for 100mm, not 120mm spindle length)
4.) Rim weight of 1,197g (listed) less 200g for cutouts = 997g each
5.) Tube weight of 610g EACH (extremely heavy assumption)

The calculation shows a weight of 35.1 lbs.

For the bike in the review, the differences are double-walled rims and brakes. I don't see anything else different component-wise.
- The double-wall rims add 196g a pair (manfuacturer claimed)
- I couldn't find weight of the Alivio 447 brakes, so i used the SRAM Guide RS weight (4-piston and not light)

Working backwards, this would mean that the frame weighs 2,686g / 5.9 lbs.

To date, the heaviest aluminum frame weight I've seen is the OnOne Fatty (170mm) at just over 2,400g/5.3lbs. I'm really hoping this Night Train frame isn't really 5.9lbs and setting an all-new standard for heavy aluminum fat bike frames.

Either the frame is like a lead weight, or the double wall rim claimed weight is too low, or both!

My dream of a <30lb NightTrain Bullet with a few modest upgrades has vanished.

Test Bike Assumptions

Chassis Frame2686 Bluto1796 Components HeadsetFSA100 Stem90mm250 Handlebar700mm300 GripsWTB125 Seatpost30.9x400mm400 SaddleWTB Volt Race287 Fr. BrakeSRAM Guide RS380 Rr. BrakeSRAM Guide RS380 RotorsSRAM 180mm268 Fr. ShifterX7116 Rr. ShifterX7116 Cables/Housing150 Fr. DerailleurX7137 Rr. DerailleurX9 Type 2, Long Cage265 CranksetSamox1100 CassetteSRAM 1030, 11-36395 ChainKMC X10L260 SeatclampBolt25 Wheelset RimWeinnmann DHL802188Nipple64Spoke320HubNovatec750Tube1220SkewersNovatec200Fr. TireVee Snowshoe 4.5, 120TPI1260 Rr. TireVee Snowshoe 4.5, 120TPI1260 Total Weightg16,798​ lbs37.0


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

It says in the article that the wheels are not tubeless ready. is this a easy fix? im sure that would take a pound or two off the weight, also going to a 1x10 drops another pound.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

sml-2727 said:


> It says in the article that the wheels are not tubeless ready. is this a easy fix? im sure that would take a pound or two off the weight, also going to a 1x10 drops another pound.


Based on my estimations, going with a full (chinese) carbon cockpit, go 1x, Race Face Turbine Crank/BB, RF 30T NW ring, Upgrading to an XT 11-36 cassette and lighter weight tubes (250g each vs. 610g), I can shed 4.1 lbs for about $450.

That's still 32.9lbs after all those upgrades. I don't figure I can get it much lighter without going silly (i.e. ultra light hubs/carbon wheels, RF NEXT SL cranks).


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## mncyclist (Nov 30, 2013)

While were on the weight topic lets talk about the shock and tires...
So Bluto on a FatBike says more dirt riding than snow riding. The shock will start to under perform a lot in colder weather and you'll be lugging around a bit more weight for no reason. Now I'm by no means against Bluto but I wouldn't want to run a 4.7" tire on a bike built more for dirt than snow. Are they going to offer any Bluto builds with a 4.0"?


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

The Snowshoe 4.7" in the review are the same as this year's Snowshoe 4.5". The Snowshoe XL is labelled 4.8" now. However, the Snowshoe 4.5" consistently measures out to 4.2-4.3" range. Not quite 4.0" as you mentioned, but closer than 4.7".

I put a Rockshox Recon on my winter bike half way through the winter season. While it is more weight, it took out some of the big ruts from snowshoes and hikers. Not 100% necessary, but it didn't hurt either. You would have to go to thinner oil for winter months for fork to work better though.


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## bepperb (Mar 26, 2004)

I have no inside info, but I think a preproduciton model weighing 37 lbs isn't a big deal. There is no mention if this included the pedals, water bottle cages and that bell on the handlebars... and is that a huge seatpost reflector or a led light? ... but I doubt I would pull all those things if I were using language like "about 37 lbs".


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

to add to that: I didn't see a picture of the bike on a scale nor does he mention if he used a proper bike scale or the weigh myself with and without bike method. I would take the "about 37lbs" a little suspect until shown otherwise. No offense to the reviewer intended, but we just don't know what they did or like bepperb says, what all they weighed.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

bepperb said:


> I have no inside info, but I think a preproduciton model weighing 37 lbs isn't a big deal. There is no mention if this included the pedals, water bottle cages and that bell on the handlebars... and is that a huge seatpost reflector or a led light? ... but I doubt I would pull all those things if I were using language like "about 37 lbs".


Article mentioned "no pedals". But didn't mention the cages, bell and reflector. We're talking about missing an anticipated mark by 3-4 pounds though. Two cages, a bell and a reflector may add up to a 1/2-3/4 pound at most. Still missing the anticipated mark by at least 3 pounds. By all indications, this is likely going to be one of the heaviest aluminum fat frames in the market!


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

neons97 said:


> Article mentioned "no pedals". But didn't mention the cages, bell and reflector. We're talking about missing an anticipated mark by 3-4 pounds though. Two cages, a bell and a reflector may add up to a 1/2-3/4 pound at most. Still missing the anticipated mark by at least 3 pounds. By all indications, this is likely going to be one of the heaviest aluminum fat frames in the market!


I can't say it doesn't have me worried since I was considering canceling my Boris X5 preorder for the sturgis.
Hopefully the reviewer will pay more service to the weight in the final review.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

who cares? it's a fat bike.


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## mxer (May 27, 2006)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> who cares? it's a fat bike.


This!And a nice priced one to boot.Don't make it something it isn't.Plenty of carbon frames out for a real light build.I have my Boris x7 and plan a Bluto and a lighter wheel and tire set up as the new stuff becomes available and a bunch of parts bin goodies to install.

When the time is right for me I will most likely build up a trick fat fully.Or not.


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

Even if this bike was 37 pounds, that's not an unreasonable weight. From what I've seen, the Pugs weighs about 35 pounds and a Moonlander weighs around 40. This bike can run the biggest tires money can buy and it only costs $1500. If you want lighter, buy a Fatboy for $600 more, but you won't get a Bluto.


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## mncyclist (Nov 30, 2013)

Barheet said:


> Even if this bike was 37 pounds, that's not an unreasonable weight. From what I've seen, the Pugs weighs about 35 pounds and a Moonlander weighs around 40. This bike can run the biggest tires money can buy and it only costs $1500. If you want lighter, buy a Fatboy for $600 more, but you won't get a Bluto.


The weight isn't published yet but the Framed MN 3.0 is up for pre-order at the-house. It looks similar to the NightTrain but I'm holding out for some more weight info from Framed and for someone to publish a review.

On Sale Framed Minnesota 3.0 Fat Bike Black/Red w/ Rockshox Bluto 100mm


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Its good to know that the snowshoe/weinman80 tire-rim combo can stay seated with 85 psi in the tires. Who aired those tires up for this picture? All the pics for the Lurch's are updated on the BD pages...they are awfully pretty.


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## treym563 (Jul 24, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> View attachment 912312
> 
> 
> Its good to know that the snowshoe/weinman80 tire-rim combo can stay seated with 85 psi in the tires. Who aired those tires up for this picture? All the pics for the Lurch's are updated on the BD pages...they are awfully pretty.


I'm digging the new version of the gray. Think it's the same color as the gunmetal flake gray that comes on the Sturgis Bullet? The Lurch color doesn't include the "flake", so maybe less metallic? Either way, can't wait.


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## eighty_HD (Jul 31, 2014)

Hi all. Long time lurker, first time posting. You guys are a wealth of info and I thank you.

I have recently been in contact with BD regarding the same creaky popping fork issue some of you have had. BDs reply was quick but I wasn't very happy with the answer. They advised me to pull my fork off and take it to my LBS. They said it is a rockshox fork and to have my local shop contact rockshox for any warranty related issues. 

For the people that have had this same issue, was this suggested to you? In reading about others experiences it seems BD was more adimant about coming up with a solution themselves. Do I just tell them that isn't going to work for me? 

I support my local shop as much as i can but don't think its fair for them to chase warranty issues on a bike they didn't sell.

advise?


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

watermonkey said:


> View attachment 912312
> 
> 
> Its good to know that the snowshoe/weinman80 tire-rim combo can stay seated with 85 psi in the tires. Who aired those tires up for this picture? All the pics for the Lurch's are updated on the BD pages...they are awfully pretty.


The orange is very nice also
I think they are going for the larger tire affect with the high pressure . LOL


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Anyone with info on which Novatec hubs are being used on the Night Train? I am thinking of getting a wheelset built for mine and want to get the correct spacing on the rear. 

I would like to know whether they are a 197 thru-axle or a 190 QR with some sort of adapter to make them TA...if that makes any sense.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

Well I wanted an Medium Orange Lurch, no go. Wanted a the Gray one. Nope gone. So I got a "Grape Soda". Just placed my order. Yay! Can't wait.


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## eighty_HD (Jul 31, 2014)

eighty_HD said:


> Hi all. Long time lurker, first time posting. You guys are a wealth of info and I thank you.
> 
> I have recently been in contact with BD regarding the same creaky popping fork issue some of you have had. BDs reply was quick but I wasn't very happy with the answer. They advised me to pull my fork off and take it to my LBS. They said it is a rockshox fork and to have my local shop contact rockshox for any warranty related issues.
> 
> ...


I honestly think he skimmed my initial email and didnt read that I have a FB4 elite FATBIKE and thinks I have some other front suspended mountain bike. Rockshox doesnt make rigid forks, specifically the one on the fb4, correct?


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

watermonkey said:


> View attachment 912312
> 
> 
> Its good to know that the snowshoe/weinman80 tire-rim combo can stay seated with 85 psi in the tires. Who aired those tires up for this picture? All the pics for the Lurch's are updated on the BD pages...they are awfully pretty.


Grape Soda color is real nice, IMO!!


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

So if I'm 5'9" with a 29-30" inseam what frame size should I order.


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

Xpcgamer said:


> Well I wanted an Medium Orange Lurch, no go. Wanted a the Gray one. Nope gone. So I got a "Grape Soda". Just placed my order. Yay! Can't wait.


Black looks best to me personally, but the other colors have that fun beach look to them.

Anyone try their tracking number to see if they started moving? I'm guessing they are started to ship them out since they got the lurch in.


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## treym563 (Jul 24, 2014)

AdventureRider said:


> Black looks best to me personally, but the other colors have that fun beach look to them.
> 
> Anyone try their tracking number to see if they started moving? I'm guessing they are started to ship them out since they got the lurch in.


In the Facebook post they said 30 days to get here, then they would ship from the warehouse. They just left China/Taiwan wherever they are made. So it's a while until they are going to be shipping.


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

treym563 said:


> In the Facebook post they said 30 days to get here, then they would ship from the warehouse. They just left China/Taiwan wherever they are made. So it's a while until they are going to be shipping.


30 days would put it over their stated ship date


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## treym563 (Jul 24, 2014)

AdventureRider said:


> 30 days would put it over their stated ship date


"How long does it generally take to get to your warehouse?"

"These are shipping from overseas so at least 30 days"

I hope they are just being conservative with that estimate.


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

So its shipping out september


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Barheet said:


> Even if this bike was 37 pounds, that's not an unreasonable weight. From what I've seen, the Pugs weighs about 35 pounds and a Moonlander weighs around 40. This bike can run the biggest tires money can buy and it only costs $1500. If you want lighter, buy a Fatboy for $600 more, but you won't get a Bluto.


The pugs and moonlander are steel. One would hope an aluminum frame weighs less than steel.


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

neons97 said:


> The pugs and moonlander are steel. One would hope an aluminum frame weighs less than steel.


I do not get the weight weenies buying a fat bike. It just makes zero sense to me.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

AdventureRider said:


> I do not get the weight weenies buying a fat bike. It just makes zero sense to me.


I'm sure road bikers said the same thing about the first mountain bikers wanting lighter bikes for the dirt. Or xc racers saying that about dh bikes.

Yet xc bikes on uci world cup circuit are sometimes lighter than uci road bikes and World Cup dh bikes are pushing into the low 30's. With this perspective, we would all be riding full rigid steel mtb's with 3x7 drivetrain weighing 35+ lbs. and wonder why anyone would want anything more.

If you could ride any bike that's 5 lbs lighter by pushing manufacturers to innovate and not take the lowest cost route, why wouldn't any rider want that?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

It seems to me that the Night train and sturgis are the same exact dimensions, but just look different. When I pulled up the link to the sturgis geometry, it took me to night train geometry. Is this correct?


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

tfinator said:


> It seems to me that the Night train and sturgis are the same exact dimensions, but just look different. When I pulled up the link to the sturgis geometry, it took me to night train geometry. Is this correct?


Night Train and Sturgis use the same frame (different colours). Wheelset and cockpit are identical. Only differences are in shifters, rear derailleur, brakes, lighter version of the same tire.


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

neons97 said:


> I'm sure road bikers said the same thing about the first mountain bikers wanting lighter bikes for the dirt. Or xc racers saying that about dh bikes.
> 
> Yet xc bikes on uci world cup circuit are sometimes lighter than uci road bikes and World Cup dh bikes are pushing into the low 30's. With this perspective, we would all be riding full rigid steel mtb's with 3x7 drivetrain weighing 35+ lbs. and wonder why anyone would want anything more.
> 
> If you could ride any bike that's 5 lbs lighter by pushing manufacturers to innovate and not take the lowest cost route, why wouldn't any rider want that?


Of course any rider would want that, but 5 pounds is probably more of a psychological advantage than it is a real world advantage I would imagine. It's more to do with bragging rights than anything else. I'm more impressed with a guy with a 40 pound fat bike logging thousands of miles versus a guy with a 30 pound fat bike logging 100 miles a year.

Any how the component group on either the sturgis or night train is so good you could always just transfer those parts to a chinese carbon frame for $600 down the road if you want. Probably would end up cheaper than buying the carbon frame first, then each component individually...


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

AdventureRider said:


> Of course any rider would want that, but 5 pounds is probably more of a psychological advantage than it is a real world advantage I would imagine. It's more to do with bragging rights than anything else. I'm more impressed with a guy with a 40 pound fat bike logging thousands of miles versus a guy with a 30 pound fat bike logging 100 miles a year.
> 
> Any how the component group on either the sturgis or night train is so good you could always just transfer those parts to a chinese carbon frame for $600 down the road if you want. Probably would end up cheaper than buying the carbon frame first, then each component individually...


Touché


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

neons97 said:


> If you could ride any bike that's 5 lbs lighter by pushing manufacturers to innovate and not take the lowest cost route, why wouldn't any rider want that?


The Lurch is a steel fat bike that is priced lower than anything with a comparable spec. I can understand you wanting a light bike, but you should just assume this is the heaviest option out there. If you want light, go buy a carbon Beargrease.


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## mxer (May 27, 2006)

car_nut said:


> The Lurch is a steel fat bike that is priced lower than anything with a comparable spec. I can understand you wanting a light bike, but you should just assume this is the heaviest option out there. If you want light, go buy a carbon Beargrease.


This!Understandable wanting to build a super light bike.Point is there are better platforms to start with versus one of these.For me this is a nice low cost way to test the fb waters.When/if I want the lightest build it won't be based on my Boris x7.That is the point we are trying to make.

Purchase these for what they are.


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## big boy phil (Jun 10, 2005)

Boris

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


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## big boy phil (Jun 10, 2005)

Delete, I was trying to search for info on the boris. 


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

mxer said:


> This!Understandable wanting to build a super light bike.Point is there are better platforms to start with versus one of these.For me this is a nice low cost way to test the fb waters.When/if I want the lightest build it won't be based on my Boris x7.That is the point we are trying to make.
> 
> Purchase these for what they are.


I agree that you get what you pay for. But when bikesdirect openly compared the night train to the specialized fatboy and claims it is the nicest aluminum fatbike frame in the market (albeit they qualify the statement by saying it's just their opinion), they are laying down the gauntlet for a heads up comparison to the expensive big name bikes.

Why would we let them off the hook on their marketing claims just because they price cheaper than the competition? Does paying a lower price also mean that I should also be buying from a company that I cannot trust?

Take the bluto out of my math and you still have a 34-35 lb night train rigid. Compared to a 29lb fatboy. I wouldn't be so engaged in this discussion if all that weight came. From cheap components (which some of it is) but it is looking like it will be the heaviest aluminum FB frame in the market! I knew I would be compromising top level quality by buying the night train, but didn't expect it to be this bad.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

neons97 said:


> Article mentioned "no pedals". But didn't mention the cages, bell and reflector. We're talking about missing an anticipated mark by 3-4 pounds though. Two cages, a bell and a reflector may add up to a 1/2-3/4 pound at most. Still missing the anticipated mark by at least 3 pounds. By all indications, this is likely going to be one of the heaviest aluminum fat frames in the market!


How about the double wall wheels in the review as opposed to the single wall ones that it will ship with? He says right in the article that he has double wall wheels. I don't know the difference in weight between single and double wall wheels, but it should make a difference. Further, what's the size of that frame? An XL frame will no doubt weigh more than a M. That could also account for some weight reduction to come closer to what we would like in this bike.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

neons97 said:


> I agree that you get what you pay for. But when bikesdirect openly compared the night train to the specialized fatboy and claims it is the nicest aluminum fatbike frame in the market (albeit they qualify the statement by saying it's just their opinion), they are laying down the gauntlet for a heads up comparison to the expensive big name bikes.
> 
> Why would we let them off the hook on their marketing claims just because they price cheaper than the competition? Does paying a lower price also mean that I should also be buying from a company that I cannot trust?
> 
> Take the bluto out of my math and you still have a 34-35 lb night train rigid. Compared to a 29lb fatboy. I wouldn't be so engaged in this discussion if all that weight came. From cheap components (which some of it is) but it is looking like it will be the heaviest aluminum FB frame in the market! I knew I would be compromising top level quality by buying the night train, but didn't expect it to be this bad.


Oh boy. 
- First, weight does not equal "nicest". _Especially _in a fat bike. In terms of components and overall function, I fully believe their's to be the "nicest" at this price point. 
- Second, no. You should not trust BD's marketing. I like BD, my first bike was a BD, and I'm 99% sure I'll be rolling a BD fattie this winter. But their marketing department takes notes from ads in the back of a bad magazine.
- Again, if weight is even in the top 10 of your list of concerns, just stop. There's nothing on this bike that is light. Go buy yourself a frame of your choosing, some carbon fiber rims and the lightest tires suited to where you'd like to ride. You'll end up throwing away 90% of a BD bike if weight is something you're chasing.


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## RobKong (Jun 7, 2010)

I've decided on a Lurch. I was leaning towards an aluminum framed fat bike because it'll be a couple pounds lighter, but I quickly realized I'm stupid and it won't make that much of a difference. Plus heavy is better for training. My semi-weight weenie-ish scandium framed 29er will just seem that much more climb capable 

Just get one and thrash.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

My finger has been hovering over the "get angry looks from wifey" button for a Lurch as well. If I had 100% confidence a Snowshoe XL would fit, it would be a done deal for me. I'm playing roulette in hoping someone will receive their's and show detailed clearance pics before they sell out of my preferred size/color.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

car_nut said:


> My finger has been hovering over the "get angry looks from wifey" button for a Lurch as well. If I had 100% confidence a Snowshoe XL would fit, it would be a done deal for me. I'm playing roulette in hoping someone will receive their's and show detailed clearance pics before they sell out of my preferred size/color.


I am selling my Full squish Specialized to get the Lurch. Its how I justified buying it. I ordered a Purple one. Can't wait to drop it off at the LBS to get tuned.


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

OK well while you guys are quibbling about specialized Fatboy weight versus night train weight I'll be on my lurch doing a 700 mile expedition with black floyd slickish tires..rear rack and 20 more pounds of touring weight...Jones loop bar...and brooks saddle...conquering paved roads, beaches, and trails along the way. Steel is real folks.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

If the fatboy supported thru axle I would be riding one this weekend. really folks this is 2014...and for a 2,000 bike it makes no sense it does not have at least that.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

sml-2727 said:


> If the fatboy supported thru axle I would be riding one this weekend. really folks this is 2014...and for a 2,000 bike it makes no sense it does not have at least that.


This was one of the deciding factors for me in chooosing the NT. That and better component mix...wanted hydro brakes (no snow riding for me).


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

If the Fatboy came with thru-axle, they would have nothing to add to next year's model and ask you to pay for a new bike costing $300 more. Duh. ;-)


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Meh. $2k for an aluminum rigid bike with Tektro brakes. Sunrace cassette and a Samox crank. I'd go back to running if that's what a typical MTB was.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Barheet said:


> If the Fatboy came with thru-axle, they would have nothing to add to next year's model and ask you to pay for a new bike costing $300 more. Duh. ;-)


Thats the problem, the 2015's are the same bike. and they cost 200 more.


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## wrightcs77 (Oct 6, 2008)

Trying to decide on a fat bike. I have ridden only FS since 1998. I don't get to ride trails any longer, just tool around with the little ones (under 4) and our new daycare is only a 5 block ride away (2 mile drive in a car). I live in MN and plan to go and get the kids most of the year round. Looking to sell my FS bike and buy a fat bike to tow the kids with and just ride around with. I have always had nice bikes, but no need for me to have a $2800 fat bike and ride it 100 miles a year. Thinking of something in the $800 to $900 range. Thoughts? I may hit the trails once or twice in the summer, possibly once in the winter. Mostly on paths and taking kids home from daycare in a Burley equipped with skis.....lol.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

wrightcs77 said:


> Trying to decide on a fat bike. I have ridden only FS since 1998. I don't get to ride trails any longer, just tool around with the little ones (under 4) and our new daycare is only a 5 block ride away (2 mile drive in a car). I live in MN and plan to go and get the kids most of the year round. Looking to sell my FS bike and buy a fat bike to tow the kids with and just ride around with. I have always had nice bikes, but no need for me to have a $2800 fat bike and ride it 100 miles a year. Thinking of something in the $800 to $900 range. Thoughts? I may hit the trails once or twice in the summer, possibly once in the winter. Mostly on paths and taking kids home from daycare in a Burley equipped with skis.....lol.


Sounds like a Lurch would be a good fit for you.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

I think the weight complaints are mostly based on the fact the an all aluminum frame with decent components shouldn't weigh that much (37 pounds). Either way I still think it's gonna be a great bike for the money. I'm hoping a large Night Train standar is closer 34 pounds though. Lighter wheels, tires and fork than in the review. Probably go ghetto tubeless or some Q Tubes right away also.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Hi all, first post here. 
I have a BD Lurch on order.
This will be my first Fat Bike.
Just wanted to post here so I could subscribe to this thread.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Welcome. There's quite a few of us just subscribing to MTBR for that are first time members because of Fatbikes. Lots of info to be had, and there's really a lot of nice guys/gals here willing to help out. If you have a question do a search and it may have been answered already, and that really helps when you're asking something that hasn't been answered. I probably read 3 weeks of posts before I figured I might be able to ask an intelligent question. I bought a Boris X9 thanks to a couple of guys who gave me a heads up about the Boris before my FB4 was delivered. Bikesdirect was a pleasure to deal with on the change. It took less than 5 minutes.



rex615 said:


> Hi all, first post here.
> I have a BD Lurch on order.
> This will be my first Fat Bike.
> Just wanted to post here so I could subscribe to this thread.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Cody01 said:


> So if I'm 5'9" with a 29-30" inseam what frame size should I order.


I have similar dimensions and ordered the small (15.5") because I am really afraid of it feeling too large. I'm still reading to find out whether this was the right decision.



Negotiator50 said:


> How about the double wall wheels in the review as opposed to the single wall ones that it will ship with? He says right in the article that he has double wall wheels. I don't know the difference in weight between single and double wall wheels, but it should make a difference. Further, what's the size of that frame? An XL frame will no doubt weigh more than a M. That could also account for some weight reduction to come closer to what we would like in this bike.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


A comment in the singletracks.com review says the bike was a 20" model. So my size small should be lighter... I'm having a hard time finding claimed/actual weights for comparable fat bikes by size, but it looks like the difference between a Specialized Fatboy small and large is a couple pounds.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

AndrewZorn said:


> I have similar dimensions and ordered the small (15.5") because I am really afraid of it feeling too large. I'm still reading to find out whether this was the right decision.


Same size. Ordered a medium. I like shorter stems for more responsive steering so I will immediately swap to 40 or 50 stem. A small would be too cramped for me. Its all personal preference though.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Bumpyride said:


> Welcome. There's quite a few of us just subscribing to MTBR for that are first time members because of Fatbikes. >snip< I bought a Boris X9 thanks to a couple of guys who gave me a heads up about the Boris before my FB4 was delivered. Bikesdirect was a pleasure to deal with on the change. It took less than 5 minutes.


Thanks for the welcome,.

I wanted a Boris X9 until I saw the Lurch. Always liked Surlys but couldn't get past their asymmetry. The Lurch is kind of a symmetric Pugs or an Ice Cream Truck with a steeper head, minus the press fit BB.

Now, like many here, I wait. 
Waiting is no fun. 
At least I don't have to wait until October like some.


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

rex615 said:


> Thanks for the welcome,.
> 
> I wanted a Boris X9 until I saw the Lurch. Always liked Surlys but couldn't get past their asymmetry. The Lurch is kind of a symmetric Pugs or an Ice Cream Truck with a steeper head, minus the press fit BB.
> 
> ...


What color did you get? What is your height and what size did you go with


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

AdventureRider said:


> What color did you get?


Orange! 
It reminds me of a Bridgestone XO

I got a 22" 
I am only 5' 11" but have long legs and prefer a more upright position.


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

22 seems pushing it for 5'11. I would think 20 would be the best bet. You have a 36 inch inseam at 5'11? Also the ETT would be 62cm on the 22 inch...seems like a lot.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

AdventureRider said:


> 22 seems pushing it for 5'11. I would think 20 would be the best bet. You have a 36 inch inseam at 5'11? Also the ETT would be 62cm on the 22 inch...seems like a lot.


Agreed. Generally you go down a size for upright positioning and up a size for "stretched out".


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

^^^Reason I went with a Medium. I was going for Orange but was sold out. Settled for "Grape Ape"(My new nick name for the bike).


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

AdventureRider said:


> 22 seems pushing it for 5'11. *I would* *think 20 would be the best bet*. You have a 36 inch inseam at 5'11? Also the ETT would be 62cm on the 22 inch...seems like a lot.


^^^True. I generally ride a 21" MTB but that wasn't a choice with the Lurch. So I decided to go for the larger one.

I have a 35" inseam and size 12 feet. I have owned several road bikes with 59-60 cm top tubes and liked them. I guess having weird proportions, unless i buy a custom frame, I have come to prefer a bike that is too big and really hate a bike that is too small.

For me, it is hard to pick something based only on numbers on a chart. A test ride would have been very useful. Not really a choice with BD.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

car_nut said:


> Agreed. Generally you go down a size for upright positioning and up a size for "stretched out".


True but there are some mitigating factors for me. The 22" Lurch comes with a 120mm stem. I prefer a shorter stem and will change it. With a shorter stem, because of my long legs, i will hit the handlebars with my knees when I come out of the seat to climb or sprint. A longer top tube is necessary to keep that from happening.

So to get my upright position on such i bike I resort to a handlebar with a more rearward main hand position (such as a Jones Loop) but still allows me a forward hand position for climbing.


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## rajcoont (Jun 19, 2014)

switched from black to grimace, no point going stealth colors on a fattie I figure


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RobKong (Jun 7, 2010)

The Purple Panis, aka Grimace.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

RobKong said:


> The Purple Panis, aka Grimace.


+1. Mine is "Grape Ape"


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

I'm pretty worried about my size choice of Night Train, can anyone weigh in, especially if they have similar measurements?

I am 5ft 9in with short legs (30x30 pants). I ordered the small size. I just really don't want to have minimal standover on a bike that is going over rocks. On the other hand, this could be a terrible decision, ending up with a bike that looks child-sized.

I ride a 53cm road bike.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

AndrewZorn said:


> I'm pretty worried about my size choice, can anyone weigh in, especially if they have similar measurements?
> 
> I am 5ft 9in with short legs (30x30 pants). I ordered the small size. I just really don't want to have minimal standover on a bike that is going over rocks. On the other hand, this could be a terrible decision, ending up with a bike that looks child-sized.
> 
> I ride a 53cm road bike.


Which model bike did you order?


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

Well, I was all set to pick up the gravity monster at $499 - 16" frame said available on the order page but apparently it is sold out once I click through! Now I'll probably end up spending $800-900 on a Lurch or Boris. 

Anyone know if it would be worth calling BD to confirm whether the 16" frame is sold out for the bike I want?


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

pxpaulx said:


> Well, I was all set to pick up the gravity monster at $499 - 16" frame said available on the order page but apparently it is sold out once I click through! Now I'll probably end up spending $800-900 on a Lurch or Boris.
> 
> Anyone know if it would be worth calling BD to confirm whether the 16" frame is sold out for the bike I want?


I'm 5'9" with a 30" inseam and ordered a 16" Lurch. The standover height on the 18" just seems too high for my purpose (snow riding). The effective top tube length on the 18" is closer to my normal preference, but I figure I can tweak the cockpit length with stem sizing if necessary.


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

baker said:


> I'm 5'9" with a 30" inseam and ordered a 16" Lurch. The standover height on the 18" just seems too high for my purpose (snow riding). The effective top tube length on the 18" is closer to my normal preference, but I figure I can tweak the cockpit length with stem sizing if necessary.


Thanks, I prefer a little more room at the expense of a taller seat myself and would probably go with the 16 as well. My wife (3 inches shorter than me, the 16 will be a good fit for her) will also be using it...once I convert it to an electric bike (which I will use myself in the winter months!). I have a nice e-bike and think this would be a good compliment to it. I decided I want to build this out myself but am going to wait to see if there are any mid-drive electric kits (at reasonable costs) vs a hub motor (would still have to build a custom wheel for that anyway).


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

So getting the crown race off the old defective FB4 fork has proved to be not possible. Not with a crown race removal tool, not with some abnormal tools either. Add a Cane Creek 40 zero stack headset to the list of upgrades. Fun stuff.


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## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

AdamJay said:


> So getting the crown race off the old defective FB4 fork has proved to be not possible. Not with a crown race removal tool, not with some abnormal tools either. Add a Cane Creek 40 zero stack headset to the list of upgrades. Fun stuff.


Yeah, I just pryed it off, no other way to do it without gouging up the either fork or the race I chose to keep the race in good shape. I think I have the original race since the extra fork had one, I can mail it to you if you want it. Here's a picture but I'm pretty sure its the right one.


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## AdamJay (Jan 27, 2014)

adw31 said:


> Yeah, I just pryed it off, no other way to do it without gouging up the either fork or the race I chose to keep the race in good shape. I think I have the original race since the extra fork had one, I can mail it to you if you want it. Here's a picture but I'm pretty sure its the right one.


My mechanic could not even get under the race to pry it off, it was so far pressed into the crown that there was no lip! I appreciate the offer, but I'm just going to stick with the Cane Creek I have on order. No doubt someone else with a defective FB4 fork will take you up on that.


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## adw31 (Feb 16, 2014)

AdamJay said:


> My mechanic could not even get under the race to pry it off, it was so far pressed into the crown that there was no lip! I appreciate the offer, but I'm just going to stick with the Cane Creek I have on order. No doubt someone else with a defective FB4 fork will take you up on that.


The aluminum is so soft along with thick paint I wouldn't be surprised if riding it kept pressing it in.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

Got my order confirmation yesterday and got my tracking number today. The waiting continues.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

69tr6r said:


> Which model bike did you order?


Whoops. Night Train.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

AndrewZorn said:


> Whoops. Night Train.


I am about your size and picked the small/15.5 as well. I ride a 17 now that I picked up used and it is just a hare too big for my taste. I figured that the 15.5 NT will be just right. Might need to swap a stem or bars but planned on doing that anyways.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Xpcgamer said:


> Got my order confirmation yesterday and got my tracking number today. The waiting continues.


I hadn't noticed until I read your post, but my email also has a tracking number. Cool.

It even says "Shipped on 8/25/2014 using UPS Ground" I would be happy with that.

Also noticed the shipping weight: 30 lbs. Someone has a sense of humor.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

The shipped date is bogus. I placed my order in June and have a shipped date of 6/20. To quote the UPS site: "A UPS shipping label has been created. Once the shipment arrives at our facility, the tracking status--including the scheduled delivery date--will be updated."


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## coot271 (Sep 15, 2010)

baker said:


> The shipped date is bogus. I placed my order in June and have a shipped date of 6/20. To quote the UPS site: "A UPS shipping label has been created. Once the shipment arrives at our facility, the tracking status--including the scheduled delivery date--will be updated."


Uh, i ordered my fantom 6by6 on june 19th.... it was supposed to be delivered between july 15 and 22nd. A delay in customs has seriously backed up the shipping date. BD has been good about keeping me informed (the shipment with my bike was stuck in customs for an inspection😒😧). the ups website says the same thing. getting very tired of waiting! not trying to hijack the thread, just going thru the same as you. the waiting game.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

rex615 said:


> I hadn't noticed until I read your post, but my email also has a tracking number. Cool.
> 
> It even says "Shipped on 8/25/2014 using UPS Ground" I would be happy with that.
> 
> Also noticed the shipping weight: 30 lbs. Someone has a sense of humor.


LOL! I didn't even check shipping weight yet. Lemme check.

*Edit*

Yeah I think they all say 30Lbs. We can hope right? From UPS.com

"Shipped/Billed On:08/04/2014
Typeackage
Weight:30.00 lbs"


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## adf2112 (Jun 19, 2012)

I normally ride Medium sized bikes but found the Small Boris to be sized perfectly for me.
I also tried my friend's Medium Elite and Medium Boris. They are both ridable for sure and I probably could get by with a Medium but I prefer the Small.

I am 5-8 (32-30 pant size)

The motoB Fattys definitely run longer in the "Reach" department which is a bigger factor for my decision.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

coot271 said:


> Uh, i ordered my fantom 6by6 on june 19th.... it was supposed to be delivered between july 15 and 22nd. A delay in customs has seriously backed up the shipping date. BD has been good about keeping me informed (the shipment with my bike was stuck in customs for an inspection). the ups website says the same thing. getting very tired of waiting! not trying to hijack the thread, just going thru the same as you. the waiting game.


The waiting does not bother me that much, now if I did not have another bike, yeah I would be going nuts right about now.


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## ShopJerk (Jul 24, 2014)

Wonder if BD will be selling this anytime soon?!?! Boris Carbonated?

*Frame:* full carbon, 12X190mm, tapered steerer 1.5 ";
*Fork:* full carbon, pp15mm;
*Headset:* FSA Orbit CF40, No.42 / ACB, integrated;
*Rims:* Weinmann HL100, drilled, 26X32h;
*Tires:* Vee Rubber Snow Shoe XL, 26x4.7 ", 120TPI;
*Transmission:* 20 speed;
*Front Derailleur:* Sram X7;
*Post derailleur:* Sram X9 type2;
*Shifters:* Sram X7 Trigger;
*Chain:* KMC X10 with missing links;
*Crankset:* FSA CK7156, 36X22 double crown;
*Bottom bracket:* 100mm;
*Cassette:* Sram PG-1030.11-36 teeth, 10 speed;
*Pedals:* not provided;
*Seatpost:* aluminum, 31.6x350mm;
*Saddle:* WTB Volt Comp
*Handlebar:* Kore XCD Super Flat Alloy Riser, 31.8mm diameter attack, width 700mm;
*Stem:* Kore XCD 3D Alloy, 31.8mm;
*Grips:* Lock-on Q2;
*Brakes:* Hayes Prime hydraulic Sport rotors 180/160 mm;
*Color:* gray matt carbon.

Typical Boris X9 build, but with 190mm, tapered head, and 100mm rims.

*DROOL*


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Anyone get a shipping notice yet on the Boris? When I purchased the X-7 for my daughter, it said it would ship in AUG.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

ShopJerk said:


> View attachment 914098
> View attachment 914099
> 
> 
> ...


Now THAT is sexy as hell to me


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## stingray230sx (Jun 5, 2012)

really want one of these, thought about the lurch, but wanted the metalgray in 18", sorry sold out!!

however I also like the [email protected] [I am partial to the mostly shimano components] in that 2015 color olive, but it's still running a 135 front hub, is there any downside to the 135 front hub, vs the 150 ? also the ad text says 197 rear hub, while the spec page says 190, so anyone know if that's just a typo, or there is a new size in town?

thanks

doug


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## ShopJerk (Jul 24, 2014)

OnThaCouch said:


> Now THAT is sexy as hell to me


Was about to pull the trigger on Fatboy.

Saw this. Put my wallet back in my pocket.

Pointing all communication devices in BD's direction.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

Wow, is that the KHS fattie in carbon?

Should be just a matter of time before BD rebadges it as a carbon Boris! Would be very interested in that!


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

ShopJerk said:


> Pointing all communication devices in BD's direction.


Have you looked at the Alaskan Carbon? That seems pretty close. BD doesn't seem to do much with carbon MTB, so I'm not sure if they'll get in on this or not.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

car_nut said:


> Have you looked at the Alaskan Carbon? That seems pretty close. BD doesn't seem to do much with carbon MTB, so I'm not sure if they'll get in on this or not.


Yeah they really stay away from Carbon bikes, but im sure a Titanium fatty will be here one day


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

Does anybody have any idea where to source replacement parts for these things?
I have the bullseye monster, and i dinged the rim dropping it onto a root the other day. i think i will be able to bend it back, but if i had totaled it, i would have no idea where to find an identical 50mm replacement rim to swap onto the hub and spokes.
if the spoke measurements were close enough, i wouldnt be opposed to using an 80mm rim instead, but i still wouldnt have any idea where to buy one.
It just made me realize that the bikes have some consumable parts that are not readily available. my BB has also developed a tick over the past 400 miles and i dont have any idea where to get a replacement when it finally craps out.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

FYI- bottom brackets typically creak, not tick. If you hear a tick on your power stroke or only when pedaling hard, it's likely the pedal


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## stingray230sx (Jun 5, 2012)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> Does anybody have any idea where to source replacement parts for these things?
> I have the bullseye monster, and i dinged the rim dropping it onto a root the other day. i think i will be able to bend it back, but if i had totaled it, i would have no idea where to find an identical 50mm replacement rim to swap onto the hub and spokes.
> if the spoke measurements were close enough, i wouldnt be opposed to using an 80mm rim instead, but i still wouldnt have any idea where to buy one.
> It just made me realize that the bikes have some consumable parts that are not readily available. my BB has also developed a tick over the past 400 miles and i dont have any idea where to get a replacement when it finally craps out.


I think they are weinmann HL80 or HL100 for the front?
someone mentioned they are sold by origin8 as well and manufactured by weinmann

oops, I messed up , those are HJC P-50 50mm rims so I am not sure where to get replacements


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

That looks just like the 50mm rim I bought from Jeff Jones. I actually bought two but misplaced or gave away one of them.


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

Hello,
I purchased the Boris X7 a few days ago. I was concerned about the front fork lugs not being ipictured like on the Boris X9. 
I emailed sales:
Hello,
I pre purchased a Boris X7 in burnt orange. I read online that the fork for the X9 has braze on fender and accessory mounts.
Does the X7 have any mounts on the fork as well?
I got this response a few hours later:
All Boris models will come equipped with the fork with more brazeons/mounts than pictured.

Thanks,
Chris

Hope this helps anyone make your decision. I for one can't wait...


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Sorry for a noob type question..Can I assume the Night Train Bullet will have a 104 bcd chainring...Thinking of going 1x10 with a Wolf Tooth 30T or 32T or is this not doable?


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

brassos said:


> Hello,
> I purchased the Boris X7 a few days ago. I was concerned about the front fork lugs not being ipictured like on the Boris X9.
> I emailed sales:
> Hello,
> ...


I wonder if it also applies to ones ordered several months ago. I guess I'll find out soon as it's supposed to be delivered in August.


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

I hope so, They have changed the specs page on the Boris X5 and X7 to reflect the changes. 
If not, i have read that they take care of their customers. So maybe they would swap a fork.
Good luck. 
I will be postings pics of the orange when it arrives. Going to trim it out with "Broncos" blue here in Colorado.


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## treym563 (Jul 24, 2014)

What would I need to do to make the Lurch a 1x10? Would it be as simple as just putting on a new chainring?


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

treym563 said:


> What would I need to do to make the Lurch a 1x10? Would it be as simple as just putting on a new chainring?


The shifter on the left side of your handlebar, remove it.


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## RobKong (Jun 7, 2010)

Did we ever definitively figure out if the Bluto will work on the Lurch? Without digging through a dozen pages of this thread, I don't remember if there was a solid answer (does this site load slowly for everybody, or just me?) What was the problem?


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

We think the lockout lever will hit the downtube, and that's the reason BD removed "Bluto-compatible" from their site. The bikes should start arriving late August, so we'll probably know more then.


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> Does anybody have any idea where to source replacement parts for these things?
> I have the bullseye monster, and i dinged the rim dropping it onto a root the other day. i think i will be able to bend it back, but if i had totaled it, i would have no idea where to find an identical 50mm replacement rim to swap onto the hub and spokes.
> if the spoke measurements were close enough, i wouldnt be opposed to using an 80mm rim instead, but i still wouldnt have any idea where to buy one.
> It just made me realize that the bikes have some consumable parts that are not readily available. my BB has also developed a tick over the past 400 miles and i dont have any idea where to get a replacement when it finally craps out.


As for the consumable parts statement its why I have changed my mind to not go with the fat bike. Tires are also priced too high. I have bad luck at times and have had experiences with nails making tires unserviceable. The black Floyd's I want were 100 a piece. I can't imagine having to pay 100 for a tire replacement because of a bad puncture on the road.

My purpose for the fat bike was expedition type touring...just not practical because the liability of a ruined tire...would be hard to replace and bringing a spare would add weight and take up a lot of space.

I am going to wait for the fat bike market to mature a bit until parts and tire replacements come down to earth.


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

Any thoughts on which frame is lighter- the Boris or the Sturgis? Just curious...


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

AdventureRider said:


> As for the consumable parts statement its why I have changed my mind to not go with the fat bike. Tires are also priced too high. I have bad luck at times and have had experiences with nails making tires unserviceable. The black Floyd's I want were 100 a piece. I can't imagine having to pay 100 for a tire replacement because of a bad puncture on the road.
> 
> My purpose for the fat bike was expedition type touring...just not practical because the liability of a ruined tire...would be hard to replace and bringing a spare would add weight and take up a lot of space.
> 
> I am going to wait for the fat bike market to mature a bit until parts and tire replacements come down to earth.


This is still a valuable opinion, but I think you are being too harsh.

The Bullseye Monster is one of the cheapest fat bikes from BikesDirect, which makes it one of the cheapest fat bikes around. Look at how serviceable and available parts are for many low-end road bikes... not too much different (though I believe the image from the poster above is an overreaction. Is he saying he can't find a 50mm or 80mm fat bike rim?). The better fat bikes from BD are using standardized, brand-name components; this is part of the reason many of us have opted for a bike that costs 3x as much. I know I was waiting for the Night Train and similar models just for the new, more common hub width. I don't think it would be a problem to replace any part on this bike.

I don't really understand the tire thing either. I have had many tire punctures which require no action on the tire itself: patch the tube, and I'm good. I had one really bad puncture recently, and just to be extra extra safe, I lined the inside of the tire with foil and tape ('booted' it). This might not even have been necessary. Can a fat tire get a really bad puncture like this? Sure, but remember they are also running about 10 psi, not 110 psi... I bet 'booting' such a tire would be way, way easier. I think one could fix an emergency tire issue with duct tape alone. If I'm wrong on all this and you need to spend $100 for a new tire someday, well, I know I have spent $50 on a much smaller mountain tire before. Spending $100 on a new tire (especially if it is half-worn, as prematurely ruined tires will be on average) isn't the end of the world.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

AdventureRider said:


> Perhaps, but it is a niche market still, although obviously growing. The lack of tire options...particularly slicks bothers me, but should be a non-issue for most. As for other parts they are serviceable as you said. I think for most its not an issue because they will be riding in snow or sand. For expedition touring its just not practical enough for me yet. For a long tour I would want replaceable slicks that were cost effective.


Sure. But fat bikes have been around for a while and are still a niche market. I just think that if you are waiting for things to change just so you can save some money on replacement tires and rims, you might be waiting for a long time, and miss all the fun.


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

AndrewZorn said:


> This is still a valuable opinion, but I think you are being too harsh.
> 
> The Bullseye Monster is one of the cheapest fat bikes from BikesDirect, which makes it one of the cheapest fat bikes around. Look at how serviceable and available parts are for many low-end road bikes... not too much different. The better fat bikes from BD are using standardized, brand-name components; this is part of the reason many of us have opted for a bike that costs 3x as much. I know I was waiting for the Night Train and similar models just for the new, more common hub width. I don't think it would be a problem to replace any part on this bike.
> 
> I don't really understand the tire thing either. I have had many tire punctures which require no action on the tire itself: patch the tube, and I'm good. I had one really bad puncture recently, and just to be extra extra safe, I lined the inside of the tire with foil and tape ('booted' it). This might not even have been necessary. Can a fat tire get a really bad puncture like this? Sure, but remember they are also running about 10 psi, not 110 psi... I bet 'booting' such a tire would be way, way easier. I think one could fix an emergency tire issue with duct tape alone. If I'm wrong on all this and you need to spend $100 for a new tire someday, well, I know I have spent $50 on a much smaller mountain tire before. Spending $100 on a new tire (especially if it is half-worn, as prematurely ruined tires will be on average) isn't the end of the world.


Perhaps, but it is a niche market still, although obviously growing. The lack of tire options...particularly slicks bothers me, but should be a non-issue for most. As for other parts they are serviceable as you said. I think for most its not an issue because they will be riding in snow or sand. For expedition touring its just not practical enough for me yet. For a long tour I would want replaceable slicks that were cost effective.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

The Vee Rubber Speedsters might be the cost effective slick you are looking for.

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/vee-rubber-speedster-tires-851448.html


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

AdventureRider said:


> For expedition touring its just not practical enough for me yet. For a long tour I would want replaceable slicks that were cost effective.


There is quite a bit of evidence of people using the fatties for winter expedition touring... but as a primary choice for 3-season touring on slicks? Man, I want a sturdy bike, but I want to reduce weight as much as possible, so my fat-bike wouldn't even be in the running for that role-


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

mikeymon1 said:


> There is quite a bit of evidence of people using the fatties for winter expedition touring... but as a primary choice for 3-season touring on slicks? Man, I want a sturdy bike, but I want to reduce weight as much as possible, so my fat-bike wouldn't even be in the running for that role-


Well my initial goal was heavy touring and a fat bike seemed reasonable for that. After reading a lot about touring...it would seem most people wish they brought less gear and went lighter. So a light hybrid/cross bike with a big saddle compression bag...frame bag..and a tent mounted up front seems more like a better fit for my purpose...though I will be far limited in what terrain I can travel on....which is why I wanted a fat bike! There really is no limitation to what a fat bike can conquer and that is what I found most appealing!

Also I'm in Sacramento and more inland. No snow and far from sand....its a long ride just to get to the coast. I still plan to get a fat bike but down the road. Hopefully there will be even more options when I make the plunge. It seems like getting a fatty now is still kind of like being an early adopter.


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

AdventureRider said:


> After reading a lot about touring...it would seem most people wish they brought less gear and went lighter. So a light hybrid/cross bike...


I use a cyclocross bike and pull a Yakima trailer. As soon as you put slicks on a Fatbike you take away a lot of its versatility, and go-anywhere factor, anyway. The advantage of the trailer is that you can drop it and have a regular ride to explore, and it's WAY easier to load than panniers or packs.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

AndrewZorn said:


> (though I believe the image from the poster above is an overreaction. Is he saying he can't find a 50mm or 80mm fat bike rim?)


No, I was saying that I cant find that SPECIFIC rim anywhere. If I got a different rim I would need different spoke lengths etc. It was a theoretical statement to begin with.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> No, I was saying that I cant find that SPECIFIC rim anywhere. If I got a different rim I would need different spoke lengths etc. It was a theoretical statement to begin with.


I think it can be difficult to replace _any_ OEM rim, especially cheap stuff like this... I just do not believe this is a valid anti-fat bike argument.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

Just got my Easton Carbon seat post, Monkey Lite Bars, Easton Havoc Stem and Bontrager saddle for my new Lurch. But now I had to cancel my order for the Lurch as we are buying a new house and ALL funds go to that first. Talk about torture! Guys post lots of pics when you get your bikes!


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Xpcgamer said:


> Just got my Easton Carbon seat post, Monkey Lite Bars, Easton Havoc Stem and Bontrager saddle for my new Lurch. But now I had to cancel my order for the Lurch as we are buying a new house and ALL funds go to that first. Talk about torture! Guys post lots of pics when you get your bikes!


Sorry to hear that. I am waiting on a Lurch and can imagine the disappointment you must be feeling, as if Christmas had been canceled.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

Sorry to hear Xpcgamer.

If it makes you feel better, I had planned to get a Lurch (due late-August), but now might hold out for the Framed Alaskan Alloy (due mid-late November).

Congrats on the house though!


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

AdventureRider said:


> Well my initial goal was heavy touring and a fat bike seemed reasonable for that. After reading a lot about touring...it would seem most people wish they brought less gear and went lighter. So a light hybrid/cross bike with a big saddle compression bag...frame bag..and a tent mounted up front seems more like a better fit for my purpose...though I will be far limited in what terrain I can travel on....which is why I wanted a fat bike! There really is no limitation to what a fat bike can conquer and that is what I found most appealing!
> .


Maybe for adventure touring a Salsa product would better serve. Something like the Fargo or Vaya. Replacement parts are cheaply available.

The Idea of a fat bike as a go anywhere machine seems to depend more on ones own abilities and not so much the bike itself.

Marketing crap like "ground control" is more hype then anything else.

Don't get me wrong. I love my fat bike, its a conversion starter and a generally fun bike.

however being realistic in ones expectations is the key to being satisfed.


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

Thought i would post this here....Just bought a FB4 Elite used...pretty good deal, the owner was on it this winter but prefered his 29er for trail riding. He had converted it to tubeless with some Knards, swapped out the rear cogstack...nice bike. After I got it home I pulled it apart for cleaning and set up. The bottom bracket felt like it was filled with sand...I pulled the left crank arm and the crank would not come off...the bb shaft was very rusty....ended up using a dead blow hammer and the right bearing was on the bb shaft/crank arm. The right bearing cup was still in the frame so I pulled that. The bb shaft on these is steel so I hit it with some PB Blaster and a wire brush...then I had to pry the bb bearing off the bb shaft.... after pulling the grease seals, both of the bearings were filled with rust....not sure it it was the salty roads or if the owner used a high pressure hose to clean the bike....ether way, the Elite has an issue with the bb seals as the drive train looks almost new...
I blew out the bearings and repacked them with philwood grease and put the whole mess back togather (grease on the now clean bb shaft)....spins great......put on some clipless peddles, pulle the big ring and put a bash ring, new seat, cut a inch and half off the bars, and put on some ODI grips...With the better cogstack, the bike shifted great.

The first trail ride was about what I thought it would be....great climber( no need to pick a line, just point and shoot)...fun on the flats.....completly sucks on rocky decents. I live in north nj...rocks and going down is not what this bike does well...My other bike is a 26 inch 6 inch travel El Gaupo...about the same weight as the FB4 After I set it up ,32-33 lbs. For me...fat bikes need front suspension where I ride.....If you ride a lot of rocks...get the fat bikes with suspension ....jmo

Aside from the junk cogstack and poorly sealed BB...the FB4 is a really nice bike and a killer deal.....even better if you get it used.


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## MIKE157 (Nov 30, 2008)

Xpcgamer said:


> Just got my Easton Carbon seat post, Monkey Lite Bars, Easton Havoc Stem and Bontrager saddle for my new Lurch. But now I had to cancel my order for the Lurch as we are buying a new house and ALL funds go to that first. Talk about torture! Guys post lots of pics when you get your bikes!


Sorry to hear your not getting your bike but you are getting a new home which is way bigger ........

Mike


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

AndrewZorn said:


> I think it can be difficult to replace _any_ OEM rim, especially cheap stuff like this... I just do not believe this is a valid anti-fat bike argument.


Its not an anti-fat bike argument, I own one and love it. I was asking if anybody knew where to get them in case I crack it or needed to lace up a new one.


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## Chris_F97 (Sep 2, 2013)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> Its not an anti-fat bike argument, I own one and love it. I was asking if anybody knew where to get them in case I crack it or needed to lace up a new one.


What? Replace a broken part with an equal part? You're supposed to use that as an excuse to upgrade.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

AdventureRider said:


> It seems like getting a fatty now is still kind of like being an *early adopter.*


It is interesting you say that. This appears on the Bikes Direct Lurch page.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

MUSTCLIME said:


> For me...fat bikes need front suspension where I ride.....If you ride a lot of rocks...get the fat bikes with suspension ....jmo


or put a lefty on whatever you got and now you have a lighter, stiffer suspension with more travel. Fat lefty's :thumbsup:


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

BENKD29 said:


> or put a lefty on whatever you got and now you have a lighter, stiffer suspension with more travel. Fat lefty's :thumbsup:


What kind of Lefty fork would you use? just curious


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

I got this from Mendon Cycle Smith

Lefty DLR/ELO or
Lefty Max 140mm FFD/TPC/SPV 

check out his web page for more details


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

I'm ordering a Sturgis Bullet, I just can't decide on color between the flake red, white and flake gunmetal gray. Any help? Wish they had more pics because both the red and gun metal look too flakey and sparkly.

Opinions? What would white look like?


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## wrightcs77 (Oct 6, 2008)

I see the large (20") NT Bluto is about 37 lbs.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

I finally made up my mind on a Boris x7 yesterday, now for a (hopefully) short wait! I really wanted a lurch, but I want to add a small electric motor and the slightly smaller dropouts on the Boris will make that an easier endeavor if I end up having top go with a hub motor (holding out hope for some fat bike mid drive options to hit the market layer this year though).


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

I switched my order from an X7 to a X5. 9spd components are cheaper, I'm going to put hydraulic brakes on anyway, and i have tires ready to go on tubeless. plus the indigo blue is awesome, i wasn't real thrilled with the matte black, kinda meh on a fatbike imo. lefty is almost ready to go, all i need now is a shipping confirmation!


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I was going to get the x9 but decided to save some money and get an x5 and use the difference on snow tires and whatever else I'll want to upgrade down the road. Do you know if 4.7s will fit? I think I read they did. 

I got my shipping confirmation yesterday but they aren't shipping them yet apparently. I don't know if they even have them because I emailed them about the tracking and the guy said that they started printing the labels but they won't ship til they come in, which should be after the 15th.. So boo I got excited. 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> I got my shipping confirmation yesterday .....the guy said that they started printing the labels .........


Well at least that is something.

The wait is killing me, but realistically I don't expect to receive my Lurch till mid September.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

BENKD29 said:


> I switched my order from an X7 to a X5. 9spd components are cheaper, I'm going to put hydraulic brakes on anyway, and i have tires ready to go on tubeless. plus the indigo blue is awesome, i wasn't real thrilled with the matte black, kinda meh on a fatbike imo. lefty is almost ready to go, all i need now is a shipping confirmation!


They let you down grade? I thought they had a no refund policy unless they sold out. I ordered a NT awhile ago and have been thinking I should i just went with a boris x5, I plan on only riding the bike in the winter which means only a handful of times and paying 1200 vs 600 is huge.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Yeah that was exactly my logic 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> I was going to get the x9 but decided to save some money and get an x5 and use the difference on snow tires and whatever else I'll want to upgrade down the road. Do you know if 4.7s will fit? I think I read they did.
> 
> I got my shipping confirmation yesterday but they aren't shipping them yet apparently. I don't know if they even have them because I emailed them about the tracking and the guy said that they started printing the labels but they won't ship til they come in, which should be after the 15th.. So boo I got excited.
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


I would have gone with the x5 too, but I don't like the look of the tires on it. The Vee8's on the x7 are similar to the small block 8 I have on my current mtb and I like it for a decent combination of rolling resistance and grip on light dirt. I think it should do reasonably well on packed snow. Knowing I'd want to replace the tires on the x5 that was my deciding factor.

On the bikes direct site on the bike details page they outline that they send you a tracking # right away, however that doesn't mean the bike is shipping any sooner than the window of time they provide in the bike listings.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

For me I was going to do snow ties anyways, and if I ride the bike otherwise it's gonna be just cruising lighter trails because the technical places I go are still gonna be ridden on my fs. I'll ride the "big adventures" whatever those are and see how I feel but they should be OK for cruising around. I wouldn't want to drop 150 on tires to ride on the street that would be a waste 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Well just changed my order to a boris x9, for what im going to use it for its more than enough me.


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## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

sml-2727 said:


> Well just changed my order to a boris x9, for what im going to use it for its more than enough me.


Which BD number did you call to change/cancel your order?


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

Kickngas said:


> Which BD number did you call to change/cancel your order?


You just send an email to [email protected]
With URGENT ORDER CHANGE in the header. I have made 2 changes, usually get an email back within a day.
No phone calls available all email only.


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## dbauer (Jul 15, 2009)

Can anyone tell me if the rear wheel offset on the FB4 is the same as the Surly Pugsley?


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

brassos said:


> You just send an email to [email protected]
> With URGENT ORDER CHANGE in the header. I have made 2 changes, usually get an email back within a day.
> No phone calls available all email only.


Hmm...I called them up and had them change the size on my Lurch order. I suspect it was the number listed on my invoice: 904-249-2453


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Just got an email saying my Night Train Bullet will be delayed an additional approximately 10 to 11 days due to short supply of speciality fat bike parts. They are asking to let them know if I want to cancel because of the delay. I suspect the delay may take us deep into November. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

Negotiator50 said:


> Just got an email saying my Night Train Bullet will be delayed an additional approximately 10 to 11 days due to short supply of speciality fat bike parts. They are asking to let them know if I want to cancel because of the delay. I suspect the delay may take us deep into November.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Same here....order cancelled. Too impatient! Gonna order either Boris X9 or Lurch. Leaning toward the Lurch, but there are delays there as well. Arrrgh


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

Negotiator50 said:


> Just got an email saying my Night Train Bullet will be delayed an additional approximately 10 to 11 days due to short supply of speciality fat bike parts. They are asking to let them know if I want to cancel because of the delay. I suspect the delay may take us deep into November.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


That stinks - I can barely wait the few weeks until my x7 arrives...if they push that date back too (doubt it, I'd guess the night train components are probably much more limited production) I'd probably change my order to just a gravity monster (when I spoke with them on the phone they expect more of the monster sometime in september).


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Negotiator50 said:


> Just got an email saying my Night Train Bullet will be delayed an additional approximately 10 to 11 days due to short supply of speciality fat bike parts. They are asking to let them know if I want to cancel because of the delay. I suspect the delay may take us deep into November.


Just got the same email. Not great :madman: but not cancelling my order :thumbsup:. I've waited this long to get into the fat bike scene, what's another two weeks :skep:. The NT Bullet has all the specs I want in a bike for my first shot at fat bikes :thumbsup::thumbsup:.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

OnThaCouch said:


> Just got the same email. Not great :madman: but not cancelling my order :thumbsup:. I've waited this long to get into the fat bike scene, what's another two weeks :skep:. The NT Bullet has all the specs I want in a bike for my first shot at fat bikes :thumbsup::thumbsup:.


I would go for one of those Framed Alaskan Alloys if they were shipping but those aren't shipping until 11/15. Looks like I will just wait and see what happens.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Kickngas said:


> Same here....order cancelled. Too impatient! Gonna order either Boris X9 or Lurch. Leaning toward the Lurch, but there are delays there as well. Arrrgh


What makes you think there are delays with the Lurch's? Haven't got any emails indicating otherwise.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

watermonkey said:


> What makes you think there are delays with the Lurch's? Haven't got any emails indicating otherwise.


On July 31st, bikesdirect announced the lurch was en route to their warehouses. They further clarified that they are shipping from overseas and that would take at least 30 days. This was on their Facebook page.

So, meeting their estimated ship date of Aug 18th - 25th seems unlikely.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Maybe there is not enough bluto forks.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

@Negotiator50 - Yeah, I was sold on the Lurch, but after riding a Minnesota 2 and then sitting on an Alaskan Alloy, I think I'm sold on one of those two, probably the Alaskan Alloy with carbon fork.

The Alaskans seem to be fairly customizable, I'm going to see if it would be an option to kinda customize a Minnesota 2.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

pxpaulx said:


> I would have gone with the x5 too, but I don't like the look of the tires on it. The Vee8's on the x7 are similar to the small block 8 I have on my current mtb and I like it for a decent combination of rolling resistance and grip on light dirt. I think it should do reasonably well on packed snow. Knowing I'd want to replace the tires on the x5 that was my deciding factor.


don't let the tires worry you too much. they are consumables, not permanent. and if you hate them, like i do, just remove them before you even ride on them, sell them on craigslist and put it towards tires that suit the riding you want to do.

I would say buy the bike you want based on the permanent things... brand, size, color, etc. if you need to tweak the stem, brakes, bars or tires or something then so be it.

if you subtract the $100 difference from the X7 to the X5, plus $50-75ish for the unused tires, you now have a set of On-One floaters to replace the tires you didn't want with change to spare... like I'm going to do. see what I'm saying?

just my .02
cheers


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Negotiator50 said:


> I would go for one of those Framed Alaskan Alloys if they were shipping but those aren't shipping until 11/15. Looks like I will just wait and see what happens.


You got me thinking.

Specs? Pricing? Looks like a QR rear which would be a dealbreaker for me.

...checked the Framed site...not seeing anything that is making me change my mind. Still think the NT is better spec'd and will (theoretically) be delivered earlier even with the delay. Now if the Alaskan Carbon was closer to $2k than $2300+ I might flinch :ihih:


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

Ah I had a heck of a time deciding between a medium and small NT bullet. I ride a medium frame on all my bikes (18.5 on my giant, 54cm on my road bike, and I think either a M or L on my SC Superlight). So jumping into a small was a difficult decision since I've never ridden a small frame bike, but I was warned that a medium was too large for some of the riders here. I have an inseam of 30" and I'm 5'8".

I was riding with my wife the other day and asked her if I bought a fat bike in small, if she would ride it. She said yes. She's 5'7" and has an inseam of 29" or 30".

So, I'll be getting a small. Benefits include a possibly lighter frame and better control of the bike .

Maybe I've been forcing myself to ride bikes that are bigger than what I'm suppose to ride. 

I wonder if I should order NOW or should I wait for the next-big-thing in fat bikes come nov (like a full suspension fat bike)?


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

sml-2727 said:


> Maybe there is not enough bluto forks.


I think that's the reason.... but I'm just guessing.


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

dbauer said:


> Can anyone tell me if the rear wheel offset on the FB4 is the same as the Surly Pugsley?


I had mine next to a pugs...the offset looks darn close in the rear...the front is zero offset though....I did not mesure it though so I could be wrong....


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

GaryH said:


> Ah I had a heck of a time deciding between a medium and small NT bullet. I ride a medium frame on all my bikes (18.5 on my giant, 54cm on my road bike, and I think either a M or L on my SC Superlight). So jumping into a small was a difficult decision since I've never ridden a small frame bike, but I was warned that a medium was too large for some of the riders here. I have an inseam of 30" and I'm 5'8".
> 
> I was riding with my wife the other day and asked her if I bought a fat bike in small, if she would ride it. She said yes. She's 5'7" and has an inseam of 29" or 30".
> 
> ...


I actually was convinced by people here to get the small. We are about the same size, and I emailed them and the person responded that a lot of people our height are torn and they have gone both ways. So I looked at the measurements of my 17.5" trek liquid, which fits me perfectly, and the 17" Boris, and they are about the same. So now what? I'm thinking that maybe the bike will be too big now, should I change it while I can.. And in the end I decided to leave my order at 17". I like a short stem, I can move the seat half an inch which is about the difference in tt length.. But I don't want to be in the position I was in riding a 16" frame that made me need a 100mm stem to ride comfortably. If you look up the khs 4 seasons you can get all the dimensions to compare to your current bikes. I don't know if you're forcing yourself to ride a larger frame than you should, but if you're comfortable, and have the control you want, you're probably close to it.

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## gjbiker (Oct 21, 2007)

Negotiator50 said:


> Just got an email saying my Night Train Bullet will be delayed an additional approximately 10 to 11 days due to short supply of speciality fat bike parts. They are asking to let them know if I want to cancel because of the delay. I suspect the delay may take us deep into November.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


I got the same message, I'm keeping my order for the NTB. I think there is a pent up demand for the Bluto; that's my guess as to the delay.


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## eighty_HD (Jul 31, 2014)

I have a fb4 elite. I need the stock bars, stem, saddle, and seat post. Does anyone have any take off parts they are willing to part with?


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

That can't be it. I got the same email about the delay and I ordered a NT rigid.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Barheet said:


> That can't be it. I got the same email about the delay and I ordered a NT rigid.


You're the first to post about ordering a NT (non-Bullet) and got the email as well. This is how I see it:

Bluto: Only Sturgis/NT Bullet models get delay notification
Guide Brakes: Only NT (Bullet or Rigid) get delay notification, but not Sturgis (Tektro brakes)
120TPI Tires: Only NT (Bullet or Rigid) get delay notification, but not Sturgis (72TPI tires)
Frame: All Strugis/NT models (Bullet or Rigid) get delay notification
Rims: Boris X9, Lurch, Sturgis and Night Trains all delayed (all use same rim)
150/190 Hubs: Lurch, Sturgis and Night Train all delayed

It could even be a combination of the above. But I would put my money on the rims/hubs or tires. Those are the only really newer-to-market parts that aren't easily accessible in the aftermarket. The newer line of VR tires seem to be just trickling out now and a lot of bikes are being spec'd with VR fat tires this fall.

Bluto has been out for a few months now without any apparent supply issues. And the fork itself is essentially all Rock Shox parts bin other than the crown and maxle. So can't see that holding up production too much.

BTW...I cancelled my order for Night Train Bullet and ordered a Lurch instead, hoping to get the Lurch sometime in September instead of waiting till November or even later given how delayed suppliers are.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Looking ahead a bit and checking into rigid forks for the NT (I've got a Bluto equipped version on order). Would the Framed FB carbon fork work?

Alaskan Carbon Fork | Framed Bikes


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## MIKE157 (Nov 30, 2008)

the Lurch will be on time. It only takes a cargo ship 7 to 10 days to sail from Taiwan to the U.S.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

MIKE157 said:


> the Lurch will be on time. It only takes a cargo ship 7 to 10 days to sail from Taiwan to the U.S.


The power of positive thinking!

Alas, I think there are more factors than just sailing time. i.e. loading, customs, unloading, assembly/QA , and packaging for customers.

Sea Freight & Shipping from China - The Ultimate Guide

"Delivery time

The transit time from China to most locations in Europe and the United States is roughly 29 - 35 days. However, keep in mind that it can take a few days - sometimes up to a whole week - before your cargo is loaded in the port of loading in China. The same thing is true in the Port of Destination, it usually takes 2 - 3 days before your cargo is cleared and ready for pick up.

Sea freight is indeed quite slow and this means that importing from China certainly requires a lot more long-term planning compared to domestic product purchases. This has also been a major cause for the recent surge in reshoring in Europe and the US. In general I recommend businesses to place an order at a minimum 3 months before they need the products in their warehouse."


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## MIKE157 (Nov 30, 2008)

Moto's don't come from China, they come from Taiwan. There is no assembly , the bike is in a unopened box when the customer receives it , Ask me how I know........I have been down this road before.

Mike


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

I'll be happy if you are correct about the Lurch shipping on time. Not that we'll have any snow here soon in Colorado...


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

MIKE157 said:


> Moto's don't come from China, they come from Taiwan. There is no assembly , the bike is in a unopened box when the customer receives it , Ask me how I know........I have been down this road before.
> 
> Mike


Really? That's pretty efficient. I always pictured them assembling them in America

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

MIKE157 said:


> Moto's don't come from China, they come from Taiwan. There is no assembly , the bike is in a unopened box when the customer receives it , Ask me how I know........I have been down this road before.
> 
> Mike


Motobecane (made by Kinesis) are manufactured in China and Taiwan. They do not come fully assembled, there is a significant amount of assembly required for any bike that comes out of a box (if you know what you're doing and actually know how to assemble a bike). So far everything you've had to say is total b.s.


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## tonyvt (Mar 26, 2010)

My 16" Lurch "Purple Haze" is on order. Looking forward to receiving it and some early season Vermont snow.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

watermonkey said:


> Motobecane (made by Kinesis) are manufactured in China and Taiwan. They do not come fully assembled, there is a significant amount of assembly required for any bike that comes out of a box (if you know what you're doing and actually know how to assemble a bike). So far everything you've had to say is total b.s.


Well I was under the impression that they ordered the frames from wherever and parts from other places, and then they all came here and they packaged them for delivery

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## treym563 (Jul 24, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> Well I was under the impression that they ordered the frames from wherever and parts from other places, and then they all came here and they packaged them for delivery
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


The bikes get shipped to them, then directly shipped to you. They might as well just ship to you from the boat..


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

watermonkey said:


> Motobecane (made by Kinesis) are manufactured in China and Taiwan. They do not come fully assembled, there is a significant amount of assembly required for any bike that comes out of a box (if you know what you're doing and actually know how to assemble a bike). So far everything you've had to say is total b.s.


I think you guys are actually talking about two different issues here. He means that bikes direct doesn't get raw frames from Taiwan that they bolt all th parts into in Florida. That the bikes come fully assembled and setup from the factory and in the box.

You are also right. While the bike is fully assembled in the box, there is a lot of small final assembly that end customer must do it pay a shop to do. Like full tires with air, put on pedals , lube/insert seatpost, attach stem, attach wheels. Then tuning to make sure factory got derailleur and brake setup right.


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## Zebinheimer (Aug 15, 2014)

Just jumping in for the first time here. Placed my order for my 17" boris in pearl white. I have yet to receive the tracking number they mentioned on the order page. I expect it will arrive shortly. My question is, is this tracking number for the container or the box containing the bike, or both?


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

The tracking # is for your bike. You won't see any movement until shipped.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Yeah I got mine a few days ago and got excited.. Then i wasn't so excited 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ordered a Sturgis Bullet tonight. Happy Birthday (and Merry Xmas too) to me! Now the wait begins... Two weeks ago I got a Fantom Pro 29er frame from BikeIsland and built it up and it is now my favorite bike and have been wanting a fat bike since I swung a leg over a cheap one at Walmart...


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## spovegas (Oct 2, 2009)

ou2mame said:


> Well I was under the impression that they ordered the frames from wherever and parts from other places, and then they all came here and they packaged them for delivery
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


So you are under the impression that these very SPECIAL frames and components are shipped to US ports and then a team of highly organized and energetic individuals sorts these frames and components and gathers all the various bits together and re-packages them into consumer kits utilizing US labor.

Whoa. There's a model for success.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but that makes about zero sense. Go to World Market or IKEA or Fred Meyer or wherever and buy a bookshelf or a computer stand or lamp or anything else you have to put together and look at how much US human manual labor was involved in getting the product from the foreign factory into your hands. And when you come to the correct and accurate conclusion, you can apply that to the BD model.

I can't even believe I am engaging in this conversation. I am obviously high on crack.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Yes, the way I thought they operated was sourcing the components separately, to get the best deals.. Like ordering 800 8 speed cassettes for 2 bucks each, 1000 derailleurs for 5 bucks, and deals like that. Considering I don't know how many bikes they ship a month, how am I supposed to know? But yeah, I thought it was more of a source and stock parts in bulk, order frames, throw them in a box and ship them.. Maybe I'm a complete idiot, thats possible. I don't work in the factory sector, I'm a graphic artist. I make buildings that don't really exist and sell them, I have zero experience selling bicycles or book shelves. 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## spovegas (Oct 2, 2009)

Not trying to bash you at all, just challenging you to think about it and come to your own conclusion. It's why we all come together to chat on this forum.

I'm sure that as a graphic artist, you have some unique perspective that I have no clue about on how they fashion their website and marketing strategy. I'd be interested to hear what you think about that.


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

spovegas said:


> Not trying to bash you at all, just challenging you to think about it and come to your own conclusion. It's why we all come together to chat on this forum.
> 
> I'm sure that as a graphic artist, you have some unique perspective that I have no clue about on how they fashion their website and marketing strategy. I'd be interested to hear what you think about that.


They fashion their website like a business that still uses AOL for email! hahaha


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> Well I was under the impression that they ordered the frames from wherever and parts from other places, and then they all came here and they packaged them for delivery
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


Haha, that's what I thought too. I guess I was just unfamilliar with the mailorder bike business. Besides, when I received it, I was going to take it to the LBS to eyeball what would be my first time bike semi-assembly job. I just assumed BD had department store level turds putting the bikes kinda together, and then shipped them out.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

pxpaulx said:


> They fashion their website like a business that still uses AOL for email! hahaha


I laughed at this because I thought you were joking and the AOL reference was funny....Then I just placed my order for a Sturgis Bullet and what do you know....they actually use an AOL email address. Crazy.


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## tonygeo (Aug 20, 2013)

I noticed the aol email when I emailed them last night. I was even hesitant thinking it wouldn't send.


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

hartzpad said:


> I laughed at this because I thought you were joking and the AOL reference was funny....Then I just placed my order for a Sturgis Bullet and what do you know....they actually use an AOL email address. Crazy.


I'll bet they still have their CD laying around their CRT monitor array, hahaha. AOL is actually still a pretty profitable business apparently, but it is amusing nonetheless.


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## rschreck (Aug 11, 2014)

So if you were looking for your very first fatty, would you choose one of the Bikes Direct bikes (The Lurch, that yellow one is just screaming take me the f*** home big guy) over a Surly Pugsley? 

I mean I look at BD all the time and still think there is something about it. And I just rode a Pugs today and I am in love. I want one. Real bad. But I have to convince the wife and it would be a lot easier convincing her to let me get an $900 bike instead of a $1700 bike.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

Do you want an overpriced bike or a good value? I've rode Pugsleys and I dont find anything special about them that warrants the cost. The Spec's arent all that great either.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Well.. I'm buying my first, and its a bd Boris so.. That's my answer. 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

rschreck said:


> So if you were looking for your very first fatty, would you choose one of the Bikes Direct bikes (The Lurch, that yellow one is just screaming take me the f*** home big guy) over a Surly Pugsley?
> 
> I mean I look at BD all the time and still think there is something about it. And I just rode a Pugs today and I am in love. I want one. Real bad. But I have to convince the wife and it would be a lot easier convincing her to let me get an $900 bike instead of a $1700 bike.


I'd say the Lurch. The money you save can be spent on lots of great beer.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Mr. Lynch said:


> Do you want an overpriced bike or a good value? I've rode Pugsleys and I dont find anything special about them that warrants the cost. The Spec's arent all that great either.


overpriced is the wrong term. the pugsley is a great bike, very well built, and very versatile. not to mention capable and fun. I have only been on one a few times but i ride with 5-6 guys that ride them year round in various states of stock/modified. and riding the pugsley is what inspired me to buy a Boris (in a good way). i think it's a good value too. just at a different price point.

if the boris turns out to be 90% as fun, 90% as capable, and 70% as versatile, then i will know i got a great deal and will be very happy and know that i have gotten a great value. if the boris is even better than that then i will be thrilled.

I can't make a direct comparison yet but plan on doing a short review and comparison of the two.

it's not without it's flaws, and i don't think it's the best fat bike available by any means, but just saying it is overpriced is inaccurate.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I think most bikes are overpriced. By overpriced, I mean priced higher than I'd be willing to pay. I've had expensive bikes, but after a few years of hard riding, they're really just a pretty used bike. I think spending 600 bucks on something that I'm going to use the **** out of is a good price. But to have a bike in the same condition needing the same repairs, but spending triple or more, it's not such a good value. I'd rather save the money and upgrade what I'm going to upgrade anyways, and save a ton of money. I'm most likely going to dump at least 200 in snow tires, a stem, handlebars, and grips immediately, so it's really a 800 dollar bike, and I'm fine with that. Still half the price of anything I'd be looking at in an lbs. And in a few years when I convert my fs to a 2x10, my parts off that will end up on the Boris so it'll be an even better buy. Plus I can probably sell what I'm replacing on it and recoup half of what I'm going to spend so it's really down to 700. 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

I owned an Origin8 crawler, test rode a Pugs, Moonlander, Charge Cooker Maxi, and a Fat Boy (and a Borealis Yampa - don't do that, it will haunt you unless you have a disposable income and no wife or kids). I had a chance to buy a near mint condition 2 year old Pugs a few weeks ago for $800, and still decided to stay with the Lurch. I might want a Bluto someday, and being able to run giant a$$ tires in the winter is also an option I'd like to have. We all owe homage to the legacy of fat bikes built upon the Pugs, but there are better ways to go about it now, and I think the Lurch is honestly going to be a better bike, regardless of whether it was built by BikesDirect or not. At the end of the day, they're both chinese frames.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

I just read in the Spec Fatboy thread that there axles are breaking. Will this be a problem with the boris? because it also has QR axles or was this just a fluke?


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

If a Pugs is what you want then hold out for one. I wouldn't spend 1700 on one but over on the Facebook Fatbike sale page somebody is selling one for 1200. If you bargain maybe you can go below 1k.


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## rschreck (Aug 11, 2014)

Two things that kind of bug me about the Lurch: 1) I am a welder and when I looked at the detailed photos of the Lurch, of course the first thing I looked at were the welds. Yes they are covered with paint but from years of experience, they aren't the best looking welds out there. In fact, they aren't even good looking welds. I just rode a Pugs today and after looking at the pics, I went and checked the welds on the Pugs and they are considerably better looking than the welds on the Lurch. And 2) I'm more of an instant gratification guy. My LBS has a Pugs in my size sitting on the floor right now. And waiting for a Lurch would kill me. 

I get what everyone is saying with the price and using the savings for upgrades that you would also do to the Pugs...but the frame thing kind of bugs me.


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

I can understand that. Those details matter and where will they be for you when it fails not to mention you might get seriously hurt when it fails and the down time even if you win the warranty fight. Sometimes spending couple hundred bucks isn't really all that bad. I know of a guy who once switched his truck to veggie oil because he thought diesel was too expensive. Well it cost him thousands to get setup to even deal with it, then he had a breakdown due to the whole veggie oil fuel and while working on it on the side of the highway the truck crushed and killed him. All that because he wanted to save a few bucks. Why ride a bike that the frame may come apart on. What if you were going 25 mph downhill when it failed? The medical bills from that would buy 10 better bikes.


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## Zebinheimer (Aug 15, 2014)

Just got my tracking number for my boris. It says "shipped out 8/29/14". Does this date have any actual significance? Anyone else have the same thing or something different?


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Cody01 said:


> I can understand that. Those details matter and where will they be for you when it fails not to mention you might get seriously hurt when it fails and the down time even if you win the warranty fight. Sometimes spending couple hundred bucks isn't really all that bad. I know of a guy who once switched his truck to veggie oil because he thought diesel was too expensive. Well it cost him thousands to get setup to even deal with it, then he had a breakdown due to the whole veggie oil fuel and while working on it on the side of the highway the truck crushed and killed him. All that because he wanted to save a few bucks. Why ride a bike that the frame may come apart on. What if you were going 25 mph downhill when it failed? The medical bills from that would buy 10 better bikes.


Has there been any instances where a Motobecane FS, hard-tail or last years fat bike frame has failed?


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

I don't follow it that closely so I wouldn't know, but I'd hate to skid my face across the ground just because I tried to save $500. I'm sure 99% of them are just fine but I'd to be that 1%er that gets a dud.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

if you just ordered then that is just your order confirmation/tracking number. i ordered over a month ago and mine says the same thing.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

radnur22 said:


> Has there been any instances where a Motobecane FS, hard-tail or last years fat bike frame has failed?


Not that i have heard about, but Surly had problems with Pugsley frames developing cracks (seat cluster and stays).


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

Cody01 said:


> I don't follow it that closely so I wouldn't know, but I'd hate to skid my face across the ground just because I tried to save $500. I'm sure 99% of them are just fine but I'd to be that 1%er that gets a dud.


You're assuming that paying more for a Pugs automatically results in a higher quality frame. I present this as evidence to the contrary: http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/pugsley-frame-failure-828024.html

Bottom line is that any frame can fail. That's what a warranty is for. I haven't seen any evidence that BD frames are in any way inferior to other frames.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Every company has had a frame failure, without exception. It happens because we abuse these bikes. But from my personal experience, they usually don't break at a weld point anyways. I've seen chainstay seat tube top and bottom tubes.. Some weld points, but mainly not. And I've never seen a bikes direct weld point frame break on the forums, nevermind an epidemic. 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## rschreck (Aug 11, 2014)

Are you guys buying these to ride dirt or mainly snow, sand, that sort of thing?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

rschreck said:


> Are you guys buying these to ride dirt or mainly snow, sand, that sort of thing?


I live in N. CA so mine will be a strictly dirt machine....unless I can get up to Tahoe in winter but mainly/solely a dirt rig.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

rschreck said:


> Are you guys buying these to ride dirt or mainly snow, sand, that sort of thing?


the correct answer is D. all of the above


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I live in long Island so I plan to ride the beach and snow.. Probably going to cruise the easy trails I do with my gf, but the technical stuff with the jumps and drops I'll leave to my fs

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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I will be using mine in snow and muck this winter. It may very well become my go to bike for dirt next year as well. 
Waiting 3 months is going to really really suck. Only on day two... My shipping date says 11/7/14 so a little less than 3 months, LOL. I would have gotten a Lurch but I know I would be buying a Bluto for whatever bike I get so may as well save a couple hundred and get it on the bike already.


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Barheet said:


> You're assuming that paying more for a Pugs automatically results in a higher quality frame. I present this as evidence to the contrary: http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/pugsley-frame-failure-828024.html
> 
> Bottom line is that any frame can fail. That's what a warranty is for. I haven't seen any evidence that BD frames are in any way inferior to other frames.


I'm sure if there were any failures, the BD naysayers would be having a feeding frenzy.


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

rschreck said:


> Are you guys buying these to ride dirt or mainly snow, sand, that sort of thing?


I'll be riding my Boris mainly in the snow to hopefully keep the 20 pounds of winter fat from settling in. However, I'll try it on the trails I ride my Specialized Camber 29er just to feel the difference. I'm sure I'll put the fatty up around spring.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

My 6'4 friend who must weigh in the 350 range has been riding a bd bike for 3 seasons now and we'll.. Its still there. I'm honestly surprised, I thought it would have broken by now Esp cause he crashes a lot lol

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

My main bike is a BD Fantom 29er and the welds on it look awesome (and I know - been working in the steel business for many years and have a degree in sculpture, done a lot of welding in my time and fabricate Jeep bumpers/roll bars/other Jeep toys).

 I am 6'3" 250 lbs and jump and crash a lot - I break lots of stuff but my Fantom frame has been flawless.


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## rschreck (Aug 11, 2014)

Did anyone get the Lurch?

And has anyone seen this before? 
Road Surly CycloCross/Touring


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

rschreck said:


> Did anyone get the Lurch?


Are you asking if anyone has the Lurch on order? Yes, several of us have them on order.

Are you asking if anyone has taken delivery on their Lurch yet? No, presumably they are all still making their over from the factory in Asia.



rschreck said:


> And has anyone seen this before?
> Road Surly CycloCross/Touring


Yes it is very old (2008) and the bikes are all sold out.


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## tonyvt (Mar 26, 2010)

I live in central Vermont and my plan is to ride my Lurch on snow covered roads and trails.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

rschreck said:


> Are you guys buying these to ride dirt or mainly snow, sand, that sort of thing?


Lurch here, zero fat bike experience.

I am planning to replace my only MTB, a 26" hardtail. I will use to ride in the forests, on trails and on gravel. I also want to do some overnight bike packing with it.

I have ridden my MTB on snow and had a blast. We just don't get that much snow here.

A tour of the NC Outer Banks is on my bucket list, and a fat bike seems ideal for the sand dunes and beaches.

Mostly I just want to try out a fat bike.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

rschreck said:


> Are you guys buying these to ride dirt or mainly snow, sand, that sort of thing?


I bought mine for just snow after last brutal winter. We got sooo much snow it's all I could do to stay sane (ride). I have a FS that rides totally awesome and prefer that on any other terrain. My fat doesn't hold a candle to it. I've tried. But in snow? No normal tire MB can keep up with it. I lost a dude that tried to follow me through some loose deep rutted snow (he had a normal tire MB). We finally met up later and all he said was he couldn't believe I got through that. lol.


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

JoeMountain said:


> I bought mine for just snow after last brutal winter. We got sooo much snow it's all I could do to stay sane (ride). I have a FS that rides totally awesome and prefer that on any other terrain. My fat doesn't hold a candle to it. I've tried. But in snow? No normal tire MB can keep up with it. I lost a dude that tried to follow me through some loose deep rutted snow (he had a normal tire MB). We finally met up later and all he said was he couldn't believe I got through that. lol.


What bike do you have? What size and type of tire?


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## tonygeo (Aug 20, 2013)

I'm up in the air about the 3" vs 4" Gravity fat bikes. Snow/sand arent that big of a deal here.


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## tonygeo (Aug 20, 2013)

ou2mame said:


> I would go with the 4", cause you can always get 3" tires for the monster but if you get the 3" one you can't go any bigger
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


The $50 difference isn't terrible but I wasn't aware 3" was tops, thanks.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I would go with the 4", cause you can always get 3" tires for the monster but if you get the 3" one you can't go any bigger

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

radnur22 said:


> What bike do you have? What size and type of tire?


I have the FB4 Pro. The tires are V-rubber Missions. They are 26x4" 72 TPI. They actually measure 29" dia, front 4.25" wide and back 4" wide. When these wear out I'll get something better but they worked just fine for me last winter.

I dropped the large chain ring and replaced it with a bash guard. Also got a WTB Pure V saddle. And new grips.

PS: One thing I forgot to mention about what's good about fat tires: They don't trash the snow trails like the skinny tires do. I see the cut marks of these skinny tires in the snow, one looked like a road bike with off road tires. It totally trashed the trail. I tried to repair the cuts by riding over them with my fat bike tires.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

JoeMountain said:


> I have the FB4 Pro.
> 
> I dropped the large chain ring and replaced it with a bash guard. A


The Lurch comes with a Samox crank set that looks similar to yours. In the pic it shows that the big chainring mounts inboard of the spider arms, but the outside of the arms is not machined.

Is is possible to mount a bash guard on the outside or does that face need to be machined?

Obviously I would need longer bolts.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Has anyone got any updates on any of the Boris line up?


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

An update on what? 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## stingray230sx (Jun 5, 2012)

I don't know anything about those cranks, but the pic looks almost like there is a spacer under the tip of those crank arms.......maybe if there "IS" a spacer it could be changed out to allow a bash guard ???

I want one of these bad, but I really want shimano crankset........waiting to see what I can get later


doug


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

If it'd a spline I have a truvativ crankset I can throw on it.. Anyone know what kind of bb it has? 

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## stingray230sx (Jun 5, 2012)

spec sheet says: EB-2401 BB-100mm and google is not being my friend today, so not sure what this translates to.

I read some posts saying it is a external bearing type BB, as in hollowtech maybe?
but again I just don't know, cant find any pics of this type.


doug


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Yeah I tried looking it up and didn't find much of anything. 

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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

rex615 said:


> The Lurch comes with a Samox crank set that looks similar to yours. In the pic it shows that the big chainring mounts inboard of the spider arms, but the outside of the arms is not machined.
> 
> Is is possible to mount a bash guard on the outside or does that face need to be machined?
> 
> ...


It needs to be machined. The bashguard always mounts in place of a removed chain ring. Mine was never used and ripping up my biking pant legs so I wanted it out of there.

I have the same situation as yours with my Specialized StumpJumper FSR. It has a SRAM CF crank set with two chain rings. I want to put a bash guard on it. I have looked around for something else but I don't have a flat machine surface for them to be mounted on. And they would likely require longer bolts like yours. I wonder if they have spacers that would take place of those 4 nuts to stand it off the chain ring?


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## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

2nd beach trip with my Boris. Incredible! the sand will trash the components but I will replace as necessary...probably go to 1x10. I like PSI at 10+ in the rear or it is too bouncy for me....I also don't have as much fun in the softer sand so it is fine for my purposes. I did 18 miles on it Friday and had a blast!


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I'm just curious what size frame is yours? 

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## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

ou2mame said:


> I'm just curious what size frame is yours?
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


My Boris is a Large. my fitter wanted to lower the bars but I said no thanks. just a new saddle and ergon grips


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

JoeMountain said:


> It needs to be machined. The bashguard always mounts in place of a removed chain ring. Mine was never used and ripping up my biking pant legs so I wanted it out of there.
> 
> I have the same situation as yours with my Specialized StumpJumper FSR. It has a SRAM CF crank set with two chain rings. I want to put a bash guard on it. I have looked around for something else but I don't have a flat machine surface for them to be mounted on. And they would likely require longer bolts like yours. I wonder if they have spacers that would take place of those 4 nuts to stand it off the chain ring?


Thanks, that is what I thought.
The more I think about it , the more I believe it needs to be machined. Seems like whenever a spider arm is machined for a chainring, there is a little "shelf" created at the innermost diameter on which the chainring sits. Without it, radial loads to the chainring or bashguard, would put a sheer load on the bolts.

The spacer idea might work well for a simple chainguard though.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

donn12 said:


> My Boris is a Large. my fitter wanted to lower the bars but I said no thanks. just a new saddle and ergon grips


You could always just take the spacers from under the stem and put them on top and see how you like it before committing to any changes. It's a really nice looking bike though I can't wait to get mine. I already ordered grips and a 60mm stem and have a set of bars for it. Hopefully they ship soon!

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## MIKE157 (Nov 30, 2008)

rex615 said:


> Thanks, that is what I thought.
> The more I think about it , the more I believe it needs to be machined. Seems like whenever a spider arm is machined for a chainring, there is a little "shelf" created at the innermost diameter on which the chainring sits. Without it, radial loads to the chainring or bashguard, would put a sheer load on the bolts.
> 
> The spacer idea might work well for a simple chainguard though.


Look at BBG Bashguards ,they have some sort of spacer but It might be for a third ring

Mike


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## tdamlo (Nov 17, 2008)

Is it possible to use a zero stack conversion headset to run the tapered bluto on a Boris? I know they are not ideal and typically add 12mm to bottom stack height. I would also have to run a 150mm hub as well. Just wondering if it is possible?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

*Lurch headset for Bluto Clearance*

The FSA #57 that comes on it is a zero stack. You shouldn't need a conversion headset, just one that is an external cup. I was comparing the stock headset to a FSA DL (I/E), which should add the needed mm's to get the bluto to clear. It will add stack height, but only 8 mm or so. If I wind up liking the Lurch, that's my plan to Blutoize it.

Edit - did one of the things that drives me crazy on here - didn't read the post I was answering correctly - sorry, I've got Lurch on the brain and responded incorrectly.


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

If you have a 44mm zero stack...its doable....

Chris King InSet? | Chris King Precision Components

Cane Creek 40 Series 44 Tapered Headset | Competitive Cyclist


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

fastpunk said:


> Is it possible to use a zero stack conversion headset to run the tapered bluto on a Boris? I know they are not ideal and typically add 12mm to bottom stack height. I would also have to run a 150mm hub as well. Just wondering if it is possible?


The headtube on the Boris is not tapered and the steerer tube on the Bluto is. I don't think the Bluto will work but the wrenches on this forum would know better than I.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

ou2mame said:


> If it'd a spline I have a truvativ crankset I can throw on it.. Anyone know what kind of bb it has?
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


External BB.

Pedaling


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

OnThaCouch said:


> The headtube on the Boris is not tapered and the steerer tube on the Bluto is. I don't think the Bluto will work but the wrenches on this forum would know better than I.


The zero stack head set on these bikes is 44mm so you can run a bluto with run a tapered steerer with the right headset.....


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

MUSTCLIME said:


> The zero stack head set on these bikes is 44mm so you can run a bluto with run a tapered steerer with the right headset.....


Good info. Thanks....I learn something new everyday.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

donn12 said:


> View attachment 916476
> 
> 
> 2nd beach trip with my Boris. Incredible! the sand will trash the components but I will replace as necessary...probably go to 1x10. I like PSI at 10+ in the rear or it is too bouncy for me....I also don't have as much fun in the softer sand so it is fine for my purposes. I did 18 miles on it Friday and had a blast!


Is that this years Boris X9?


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## spovegas (Oct 2, 2009)

*BD, What Say You On The Lurch???*

Dear BikesDirect:

This is the week that your incredibly awesome (okay also incredibly cheap, yes, but still totally awesome because our cheapness makes your business model work) pre-order customers have been waiting waiting for . . .









It's here! And we're already one day in!

Where's that big pile 'o Lurches at????

Make some noise, BD!!! :smallviolin::rockon::band::drumroll:


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I'm waiting for my boris' tracking number to update lol

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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Oh man really? You pre-ordered?

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## Trauma05 (May 24, 2012)

17" x9 sold out...sad camper ;(


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## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

siv said:


> Is that this years Boris X9?


I got it about 6 months ago...it was the very first batch so i don't know if anything has changed. It came out before any other variants

anyone know what bottom bracket I will need when it is time to replace the one on my bike?


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

Trauma05 said:


> 17" x9 sold out...sad camper ;(


There will always be next time! It does say in a bright yellow box that most sizes will sell out prior to arrival date, fwiw.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

If you're close in size (e.g. 30" inseam or less) a 15" may work. They run large for their size.



Trauma05 said:


> 17" x9 sold out...sad camper ;(


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

ou2mame said:


> Oh man really? You pre-ordered?
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


happened to me with the bullseye monster too. i ended up waiting 2 additional weeks even though i ordered it a solid 10 weeks before the shipping date. i think they just fill the requests in the order that they were placed, and since medium is the most popular size it naturally sold out first.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

BD just announced on FB that a Gravity Bullseye Monster Pro with Bluto and a Motobecane Boris FS X9 with Bluto will both be available in November. The Boris FS X9 is probably going to be a $1,099 Bluto equipped model ($799 X9 + $300 Bluto upgrade like on the Sturgis/Night Train). Not bad when fork-alone is about $600-$650 range.

The Boris X9 Bluto pic shows a tapered headtube, but otherwise the same parts spec as the standard X9 far as the naked eye can see, of course other than the 150mm front hub.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

They also make reference to a full suspension Gravity


Pedaling


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> happened to me with the bullseye monster too. i ended up waiting 2 additional weeks even though i ordered it a solid 10 weeks before the shipping date. i think they just fill the requests in the order that they were placed, and since medium is the most popular size it naturally sold out first.


I called and asked what size/color had the best chance of not being refunded, and the girl said not to order the x5 in blue in 15 or 17 cause those are over ordered it looked like

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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

That's my plan. I'm getting the x5 and will use the big adventure tires at the beach but invest in some better snow tires with the extra 100. 

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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

Great, as if debating whether to change my X7 order to an X5, now they throw that announcement out? That gravity could potentially be around $800 if they stick with the $300 premium for the Bluto fork!

I have a question about the tires on the Boris X5 - I can't find a thing about them on the internet (they are labeled Big Adventures 26x4.0). I currently have the X7 on order, but having seen the Vee8s in person I'm not sure I'm liking the tread look nearly as much as my similar (but deeper) small block 8 regular mountain bike tires.

Has anyone had any experience or insight into the Big Adventure tires on the Boris X5? My thought track being to take that $100 and invest in a 2nd set of On One Floaters.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

This forum had been doing that for a while.. Maybe it's cause I'm posting from Tapatalk? I have no idea I've only seen it here before 

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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> That's my plan. I'm getting the x5 and will use the big adventure tires at the beach but invest in some better snow tires with the extra 100.
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


was this to me? how'd it end up above my post?!


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Haha it did it again 

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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

dont know if i missed it. has anyone put bigger tires on a fb4 comp. trying to figure out how big i can go. want something pretty aggressive that i can stud. we get a lot of snow but also a lot of ice


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## hedz0r (Jul 17, 2013)

bikesdirect's post on facebook regarding the Lurch ship times:



> FatBike Updates On Motobecane Lurch:
> Although these bikes left the factory in time; container and ship-yard issues have cost us an extra 5 days.
> We are watching these bikes closer than we watch most containers and getting daily updates. Ocean Freight and transport company now forecasts arrive in out Houston warehouse on Sept 2nd.
> 
> ...












dang... I dont know if I can wait another 2 weeks!!!


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## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

I thought of getting a special set of tires for the beach but figured out real quick I hate the fluffy stuff and the stock tires are fine for the area by the water



pxpaulx said:


> Great, as if debating whether to change my X7 order to an X5, now they throw that announcement out? That gravity could potentially be around $800 if they stick with the $300 premium for the Bluto fork!
> 
> I have a question about the tires on the Boris X5 - I can't find a thing about them on the internet (they are labeled Big Adventures 26x4.0). I currently have the X7 on order, but having seen the Vee8s in person I'm not sure I'm liking the tread look nearly as much as my similar (but deeper) small block 8 regular mountain bike tires.
> 
> Has anyone had any experience or insight into the Big Adventure tires on the Boris X5? My thought track being to take that $100 and invest in a 2nd set of On One Floaters.


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## jimmac23 (Oct 27, 2013)

Ohhhh...sigh...fu***K...Ohhhh...sigh....sucks... :-( :-( :-(


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## Zebinheimer (Aug 15, 2014)

So does this also change the boris' arrival date?


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I haven't seen them mention the Boris so I hope not lol 

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## treym563 (Jul 24, 2014)

Shoot! I was hoping to take the Lurch on a bike trip September 12th. Oh well, maybe it will still show up in time...


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

Zebinheimer said:


> So does this also change the boris' arrival date?


With a wider window and no mention yet, I'm not holding out hope. Would anyone put it beyond them to hold bikes so people switch their orders to the newly announced Bluto options? They'd have instant pre-order money and the boris bikes would probably all still sell anyway. Conspiracy I say!


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I would consider the gravity bluto, but i don't want to wait til November. Plus I like pearl white 

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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

ELECTRIC_YETI said:


> dont know if i missed it. has anyone put bigger tires on a fb4 comp. trying to figure out how big i can go. want something pretty aggressive that i can stud. we get a lot of snow but also a lot of ice


Yea...go back to around pg 50-70...some guy put a Bud and Lue on...4.7...but another guy put said you had to trim the side knobs on the chain side...read the whole thread yesterday...i was board...


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## spovegas (Oct 2, 2009)

Zebinheimer said:


> So does this also change the boris' arrival date?


No. The two shipments are totally unrelated.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

MUSTCLIME said:


> Yea...go back to around pg 50-70...some guy put a Bud and Lue on...4.7...but another guy put said you had to trim the side knobs on the chain side...read the whole thread yesterday...i was board...


I have an FB4 Pro in my basement and I just made some measurements. The front is 5 1/4" wide inside the fork so it's got plenty to clear a 4.8 tire (100mm rim). The rear tire is just under 4" wide and it has about 3/8" to clear the chain with the chain on the small chain ring. It's too close, that's accurate info. The chain is the limiting factor not the frame or rim (rim is 80mm). If you always used the 2nd chain ring which is doable, it would probably clear without trimming of knobs. But trimming those side knobs is no biggie as they are not used.


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

JoeMountain said:


> I have an FB4 Pro in my basement and I just made some measurements. The front is 5 1/4" wide inside the fork so it's got plenty to clear a 4.8 tire (100mm rim). The rear tire is just under 4" wide and it has about 3/8" to clear the chain with the chain on the small chain ring. It's too close, that's accurate info. The chain is the limiting factor not the frame or rim (rim is 80mm). If you always used the 2nd chain ring which is doable, it would probably clear without trimming of knobs. But trimming those side knobs is no biggie as they are not used.


look at post #4 on page #59....looks like the 4.8's fit but he was not using a granny gear....


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## spovegas (Oct 2, 2009)

hedz0r said:


> bikesdirect's post on facebook regarding the Lurch ship times:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting, hedz0r.

I actually view this as really good news. I work for a company that does a ton of overseas shipping and let me tell ya that predicting arrival dates is pretty much a krap shoot. There is so much logistics involved with getting stuff through ports and on and off of boats and through customs, etc. If you live in a port city or have the chance to visit one, just go hang out by the port and watch the activity and the sheer amount of cargo and how things work. It's kind of like rail freight in that sense - it's a humongous system moving a humongous amount of freight and it has it's own inertia. The Houston port is a huge operation. BD sounds like they are making every effort to do everything they can to push progress through the port.

I never had any real expectations that our Lurches would ship in the 18th - 25th window. Could it have happened? Sure. I am convinced that BD is doing the very best they can to provide accurate ship dates. But there are so many variables. What I was really concerned about was that there would be SUBSTANTIAL delays, as in a month or longer. What they are reporting now, is a Sept 2 arrival at warehouse, and shipment within 24 hours. Figuring that they may have to "work until midnight", bikes wouldn't go out until the next day, so Sept 4 now. So I'm not quite sure how they arrived at the "5 day delay". I count 10 calendar days, 7 working days ('cause of Labor Day). But at any rate, a pretty short delay, in the big picture.

What encourages me the most is that the bikes are in the states, and that they've given us a pretty clear picture of what happens when they finally receive them - the bikes are all packaged for shipment and they just have to label and ship them. Both pieces of news are RAD! It's also really encouraging to hear that they are committed to busting a$$ to get the bikes on the brown trucks once they have them.

Is it possible that BD is stringing us along and that there will be further delays? Of course anything's possible, but I just don't see any real evidence of that, quite the contrary. I'm giving BD the benefit of the doubt at this point. I think they're shooting straight with us and I really appreciate that they provided this amount of info. They certainly didn't have to and are taking a risk by further frustrating anxious customers if they can't do what they say, due to circumstances beyond their control.

I say good on ya, BD! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## hedz0r (Jul 17, 2013)

What parts does everyone have ordered/on order for their BD fatbikes?

so far I have received:
Raceface Turbine Bars (725mm, 3/4 rise)
Truvativ Hussefelt Stem (60mm)
Deity Decoy Pedals (Red)
ODI Troy Lee Designs Lock On Grips (Red/ Black clamps)
Niner Yawyd Top Cap
Avid Speed Dial 7 Levers (Dont care for the FR5 levers on BB7's)
Lizard Skins Chainstay Protector
24"x2.4-2.75 DH Tubes (removable core) for tubeless
Bottle of Stans

These will be going on a Metallic Gray Lurch running the Red rim strips. Hoping to have a Gray/Red theme going with white/red/blue accents of the Motobecane logo.


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## ctmtb3 (Jan 17, 2008)

Sorry to chime in so late on this. I have a Fantom fb4 comp that had a creaking front that I thought was the steer tube-it wasn't. What fixed it was to pop the headset cups out of the headtube and smooth out the burrs/highspots that were in there-tight and quiet ever since. BD sent me another fork quickly but I returned it as unneeded. Loving the bike.

As an aside I just saw the fb4 fat wheels for sale on Bikeisland. I know the newer hubs are much wider.

Thanks to everyone here for the wealth of information on here. I hope your new bikes arrive soon.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

hedz0r said:


> What parts does everyone have ordered/on order for their BD fatbikes?


Nothing. I'll probably swap out the handlebars with some that I have laying around that have more sweep. Besides that, I'll ride it a while and see if I really need to upgrade or change anything.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I've got a 60mm stem already, some 680mm bars and some locking grips.. I am going to order some blue jagwire cables and a set of pedals I like. I should be fine with that but if I have to replace something do be it. 

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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

Did anyone notice that the estimates ship dates for both the Sturgis and Night Train bikes push another 2 week out? I've got a Sturgis Bullet on order


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

hedz0r said:


> What parts does everyone have ordered/on order for their BD fatbikes?


Nothing, I need to ride it a few times to see what or if it really needs anything. I'm using this bike primarily for snow and really muddy conditions. Reading the reviews about the tires on the boris im most likely going to need something better for snow.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

hartzpad said:


> Did anyone notice that the estimates ship dates for both the Sturgis and Night Train bikes push another 2 week out? I've got a Sturgis Bullet on order


Refreshed my cache...now showing new dates.....

On the website, only the NT/NT Bullet have been delayed two weeks on the website to Oct. 30-Nov. 5. The Sturgis/Sturgis Bullet still show original date of Oct. 10-18. Not sure if its a matter of not updating the website yet or if there is a delay...

If it is NT models only, then the only delays could be the 120TPI tires or the SRAM Guide RS brakes. Doubt the X7/X9 components are causing any delays.


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

One thing to remember is that its completely out of BD hands on delays. I avoided buying a bike mainly because fat bikes are blowing up right now with new technology so I will wait. When buying from that part of the world things can always popup and delays can happen. BD was just going off of estimated eta, but those eta‘s can change.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

spovegas said:


> I actually view this as really good news. SNIP
> 
> I say good on ya, BD! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


I totally agree. I too work with international shipments and have experienced the unpredictability of it all.

When I placed my order, I figured I would receive my bike around mid September. Looks like that might still happen, give or take a week.

I too applaud BD for being up front and keeping us up to date.

Of course, I still reserve the right to moan and whine that my new bike hasn't arrived, should any substantial delays occur.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

neons97 said:


> On the website, only the NT/NT Bullet have been delayed two weeks on the website to Oct. 30-Nov. 5. The Sturgis/Sturgis Bullet still show original date of Oct. 10-18. Not sure if its a matter of not updating the website yet or if there is a delay...
> 
> If it is NT models only, then the only delays could be the 120TPI tires or the SRAM Guide RS brakes. Doubt the X7/X9 components are causing any delays.


I don't know when you looked, but both Sturgis bikes show:

October 30-Nov. 5

Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Boris X9 SRAM


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Lurch news just posted on FB


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

MUSTCLIME said:


> look at post #4 on page #59....looks like the 4.8's fit but he was not using a granny gear....


Cool I went to look at that post. I'm definitely getting a Lou and a Bud tire for this winter. Should be a major improvement in the snow over the Vee Missions.


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## hedz0r (Jul 17, 2013)

The fatbike gods are watching out for us!



> #‎FATBIKE‬ UpDate! Motobecane Lurch
> 
> Ocean Freight company just revised delivery date to August 28th
> 
> ...


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I ordered a large Sturgis Bullet, but now I am wondering if I should change to an XL... Rode a friends Mukluk in XL this weekend and the fit was perfect. I had to fiddle with the fit on my Fantom 29er (in Large). 
I am 6'3" tall but have short(ish) legs and a long torso. I only wear a 32" inseam pant.
Any help?


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> I ordered a large Sturgis Bullet, but now I am wondering if I should change to an XL... Rode a friends Mukluk in XL this weekend and the fit was perfect. I had to fiddle with the fit on my Fantom 29er (in Large).
> I am 6'3" tall but have short(ish) legs and a long torso. I only wear a 32" inseam pant.
> Any help?


Ah, more scary posts making me worry about my choice of Small when I'm 5'9" tall.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

AndrewZorn said:


> Ah, more scary posts making me worry about my choice of Small when I'm 5'9" tall.


Well my son rode a Pugsley (friend's wife's bike) in XS and it fit him perfect and he is only 9. The Pugs is for sale now I have to come up with $800 for my son for Xmas. LOL.
I rode a large Mukluk at a LBS a couple weeks ago (prior to ordering the L Sturgis) and it felt pretty good, they did not have an XL in stock. The XL felt better...
Geo charts for the Sturgis and Mukluk show they are really close to the same...


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> Well my son rode a Pugsley (friend's wife's bike) in XS and it fit him perfect and he is only 9. The Pugs is for sale now I have to come up with $800 for my son for Xmas. LOL.
> I rode a large Mukluk at a LBS a couple weeks ago (prior to ordering the L Sturgis) and it felt pretty good, they did not have an XL in stock. The XL felt better...
> Geo charts for the Sturgis and Mukluk show they are really close to the same...


That's a good point and good news, according to the size chart, 175cm (5'9") is the upper limit of Small, which also has a 15" seat tube. I want to be at the upper limit, not the lower limit.

2014 Mukluk Ti | Bikes | Salsa Cycles


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

AndrewZorn said:


> That's a good point and good news, according to the size chart, 175cm (5'9") is the upper limit of Small, which also has a 15" seat tube. I want to be at the upper limit, not the lower limit.
> 
> 2014 Mukluk Ti | Bikes | Salsa Cycles


Yeah that is what I was thinking as well with the large, then I had to go get myself all questioning the choice after riding an XL bike. It was the Mukluk Ti I rode. 

I have a Large frame on my Fantom 29er (bought frame set and built bike from Bike Island) and it fits me very well now but I did go through a couple stem lengths and adjust my spacers on the headset a couple times. I still want wider bars but the ones I have are fine for now....


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Hey soon to be Lurch owners, what is the benefit of the Lurch over the Boris x9? 

It cost 100 bucks more and comes with a bigger head tube, component wise there about the same except tires, Lurch gets winter tires. is that all?


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> Yeah that is what I was thinking as well with the large, then I had to go get myself all questioning the choice after riding an XL bike. It was the Mukluk Ti I rode.
> 
> I have a Large frame on my Fantom 29er (bought frame set and built bike from Bike Island) and it fits me very well now but I did go through a couple stem lengths and adjust my spacers on the headset a couple times. I still want wider bars but the ones I have are fine for now....


Well, surely it depends on your intended use a bit too. For lots of flat riding I too would prefer a frame that fit me well... but as this will be my only non-road bike, I want to be able to handle anything at the expense of comfort, so I need that top tube to be really low, and the bike to feel very manageable. That's why I want to ride on a smaller frame, so long as it isn't painfully small.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

sml-2727 said:


> Hey soon to be Lurch owners, what is the benefit of the Lurch over the Boris x9?
> 
> It cost 100 bucks more and comes with a bigger head tube, component wise there about the same except tires, Lurch gets winter tires. is that all?


The Lurch is steel. This is the main difference. It also has a tapered headtube, wider/newer hubs, and clearance for larger tires.

Not really sure how you missed all of this.


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## Zebinheimer (Aug 15, 2014)

Spoke with bikes direct earlier. They said this delay does apply to boris models as well. We all should receive an email later on.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

Destr0 said:


> I ordered a large Sturgis Bullet, but now I am wondering if I should change to an XL... Rode a friends Mukluk in XL this weekend and the fit was perfect. I had to fiddle with the fit on my Fantom 29er (in Large).
> I am 6'3" tall but have short(ish) legs and a long torso. I only wear a 32" inseam pant.
> Any help?


I'm 5'11" with a 32" inseam and I ordered 17.5" Medium Sturgis Bullet. Thought I needed a size Large but after riding a size Large and Medium Specialized Fatboy, I think the standover height of the Medium Sturgis Bullet will be right for me, coupled with the increased front end height from the Bluto fork. Everywhere I read, people say to almost always pick a size smaller in Fat Bikes than usual, especially when riding in snow.

FWIW, I ride a Large 19" Stumpjumper FSR 29er and it fits me perfectly.


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

I don't understand why people say to get a smaller size bike in the snow. That makes no sense. I've ridden fat bikes in the snow quite a bit, and if you're not comfortable on the bike in the dirt, you won't be comfortable on it in the snow.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

If you happen to bail while in the snow and your feet sink into the snow you can audition for a position in the Vienna Boy's Choir.



Barheet said:


> I don't understand why people say to get a smaller size bike in the snow. That makes no sense. I've ridden fat bikes in the snow quite a bit, and if you're not comfortable on the bike in the dirt, you won't be comfortable on it in the snow.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

sml-2727 said:


> Hey soon to be Lurch owners, what is the benefit of the Lurch over the Boris x9?
> 
> It cost 100 bucks more and comes with a bigger head tube, component wise there about the same except tires, Lurch gets winter tires. is that all?


What AndrewZorn said,

plus for some of us the Lurch is a better looking bike. I know that is very subjective, but for me it is a real bonus. I know the bent (OK, curved) toptube and downtube on the Boris are functional, but I don't like it as much as the thinner straight tubes of the Lurch.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

Fat bikes ride packed snow trails fine, but not so much in the powder. It's not like you can magically bomb thru 2ft of powder, then go to put a foot down and sink way in.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

If you're that worried about it in the snow... Put a bmx pad on lol

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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

Bumpyride said:


> If you happen to bail while in the snow and your feet sink into the snow you can audition for a position in the Vienna Boy's Choir.


The same thing could happen in the dirt. That's why you don't bail by straddling the top tube. Maybe I've just bailed so many times that I've become an expert at it. But I wouldn't sacrifice ride comfort and fit just so I can bail easier.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Bumpyride said:


> If you happen to bail while in the snow and your feet sink into the snow you can audition for a position in the Vienna Boy's Choir.


The single track snow trails I ride are only packed down on the trail itself - 10 inches in either direction is certain death. You put a foot down off trail and you post-hole. Having a frame with an extra inch of standover height isn't going to do a damn thing. Get a bike that fits and learn how to bail.


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

To lurch or not to lurch! I have an x7 on order, but am almost 100% positive I will want to get another set of tires (on-one floaters most likely). Since the new tires will probably run at least $130 or more, that makes the lurch only $70 more (having a 2nd set of tires wouldn't be bad either though). Would it then be worth it just to go for the lurch in the first place?


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

pxpaulx said:


> To lurch or not to lurch! I have an x7 on order, but am almost 100% positive I will want to get another set of tires (on-one floaters most likely). Since the new tires will probably run at least $130 or more, that makes the lurch only $70 more (having a 2nd set of tires wouldn't be bad either though). Would it then be worth it just to go for the lurch in the first place?


If the tires are the only thing you like about the Lurch, then no, keep with the X7.

You could buy the Floaters before the bike arrives and swap them out. That way you could sell the "Take-off" tires and defray most of the cost of your new tires.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

I thought you guys were specifically talking to me with the undersizing, not the snow guy.

I understand "learning to bail" is a good idea, and I'm not discounting that. But I'm ordering a bike online. I'd of course rather it be too small than too big. I don't think anyone *wants* a bike to be *too* small: by definition, they want a bike to fit. Everyone just doesn't want to blindly order a bike by the simple height chart and get a high top tube and long frame.


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

I really get the feeling that many of you aren't very experienced riders at all, especially with fatbikes. I'm a firm believer that your first bikes should be purchased at a LBS where you get professional help, sizing, fit, and tuning included with the purchase of your bike. An online retailer is not a good place to start if you are new to it.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Barheet said:


> I really get the feeling that many of you aren't very experienced riders at all, especially with fatbikes. I'm a firm believer that your first bikes should be purchased at a LBS where you get professional help, sizing, fit, and tuning included with the purchase of your bike. An online retailer is not a good place to start if you are new to it.


Why do you get that feeling?

You're in a thread about a Bikes Direct bike, going to the store is not an option. I firmly disagree with the widely held belief that anyone in a bike shop can choose from one of four frames size and adjust a saddle better than I can after a few rides. Yes, I'd be able to check out the bike in person. But that's hardly an option in this context, right?

This is far from my first bike (as if I need to defend myself), but yes, it is my first fatbike... I guess that makes me a complete noob that needs to go to the local shop and buy a Specialized. Really?


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

It's difficult for anyone to buy a bike without seeing it, experienced or not. I've been riding mtbs for 15 years, 10 of which I've been building my own bikes, and still had to question which size I wanted. 

Even an elitist attitude can't make up for the 1000 dollars I'm saving... Sorry lbs, but you don't know everything. I've had plenty of bad advice dished out to me in an lbs, had them break parts on my bike, over and under torque bolts, etc... Nobody cares about my bike more than me. I had a guy tell me i needed a 19" specialized frame.. I'm 5'8. It fit terribly. He said he could fix it with a seat and stem adjustment lol... Yeah thats the guy I want sizing me for a bike. Hell I had an lbs mechanic tell me this season that the shimano 9 speed deore derailleur didn't work with 8 speed.. But he really wanted to sell me new shifters chain and cassette. He even offered to install them at half the labor! Thanks buddy... Such a good informed guy you know? 

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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Been building bikes for a long time, even worked wrenching in a shop. Still hard to determine what size I want to order without riding one... Like in shoes - I wear three different sizes depending on what company made them.
I like to ask questions and make sure I am OK with my choice when it is a $1300 purchase. 
If the parts spec were any closer I would cancel my order and ride out of the LBS with the Salsa Mukluk, but it is $350 more (after $250 discount for being a '14) and has lesser components on it. I also know I want the Bluto fork so the LBS quoted $700 for that installed... $550 is cheapest I have found it online.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Sizing. Without fail I always choose the smallest or lightest tool possible that gets the job done well. I don't buy cheap tools nor crappy snowboards or bikes that are necessarily price oriented unless they are the equivalent of what I'm looking at.

Same goes for stand-over height. When bailing on snow trails I try and lay it over especially when there's soft snow along side, or when pushed over by hard rut or snowmobile track. 150 lbs falling at 32 ft per second is much better tolerated when the boys end up an inch above a metal bar.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

rex615 said:


> What AndrewZorn said,
> 
> plus for some of us the Lurch is a better looking bike. I know that is very subjective, but for me it is a real bonus. I know the bent (OK, curved) toptube and downtube on the Boris are functional, but I don't like it as much as the thinner straight tubes of the Lurch.


I kinda like the KHS frame design. 
It just seems the Boris is getting no love compared to the Lurch and Sturgis/Nightrain bikes. It is the middle child of bikes in the BD fatbike line up.....lol


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I really like the khs frame design.. I didn't want to invest a ton of money for my first one.. If i really end up liking riding in the snow I'll sell it and get something else if i think that will improve my experience.. But for 600 to get on one, thats pretty amazing considering there are no local options even near the price besides a mongoose from Walmart. 

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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

I own and ride the Boris. No complaints and I like the look. Anyone ridden a Lurch?
I do believe if Bikesdirect got a lot of negative feedback on the Boris, we wouldn't be seeing 3 models on the same frame. You don't have a successful business by selling an inferior product, albeit there are exceptions, just look at the Dollar Stores and Walmart.



sml-2727 said:


> I kinda like the KHS frame design.
> It just seems the Boris is getting no love compared to the Lurch and Sturgis/Nightrain bikes. It is the middle child of bikes in the BD fatbike line up.....lol


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## Barheet (Jul 13, 2012)

AndrewZorn said:


> Why do you get that feeling?


I get that feeling because you seem to think that buying a bike that's too small is a good idea. But hey, buy whatever you want. Anybody on a fatbike is a friend, sorry if I offended.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

AndrewZorn said:


> Ah, more scary posts making me worry about my choice of Small when I'm 5'9" tall.


Same height. I ordered a M but I ride with a shorter stem so I will immediately swap out to 50mm or 60mm stem. Plus my arms are on the longer side (usually buy shirts with 35/36 arm lengths).

Just because someone 5'9" buys a S doesn't mean another person should. Everyone's riding style and physical characteristics are different and they all affect the size you should buy.

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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

AndrewZorn said:


> Ah, more scary posts making me worry about my choice of Small when I'm 5'9" tall.


I think you'll be OK. I was thinking I needed a Med (5'9 / 32") until I tried out a M Fatboy. It felt way big! The LBS guy said he'd put me on a small as well.
The Sturgis is almost an exact copy of the Fatboy, so I ordered a 15".


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## tonyvt (Mar 26, 2010)

Mr. Lynch said:


> Fat bikes ride packed snow trails fine, but not so much in the powder. It's not like you can magically bomb thru 2ft of powder, then go to put a foot down and sink way in.


Makes sense to me.
I'm going to be skiing when there's powder and riding my Lurch when it's hard pack.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> I really like the khs frame design.. .


 Or the 9 zero 7:thumbsup:



sml-2727 said:


> I kinda like the KHS frame design.
> It just seems the Boris is getting no love compared to the Lurch and Sturgis/Nightrain bikes.





Bumpyride said:


> I own and ride the Boris. No complaints and I like the look.


I am not knocking the Boris, I was getting ready to order an X9 until i saw the Lurch. The Boris has similar components and is probably lighter by a couple pounds. It is a great bike, I just like the looks of the Lurch better and I am a fool for a steel frame.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

rex615 said:


> Or the 9 zero 7:thumbsup:


Lol that too! Not that it's too big of a deal, but if you plan to ride in the snow.. I know I also plan to ride on the street, wouldn't aluminum be better than steel considering the salt? Not that the frame will instantly rust out... But long term. Though, bikes are much more disposable than they used to be.

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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I actually like the frame on the Boris more but really want the fork and it makes sense to get it when it is a $300 upgrade vs. $550 retail purchase. 

If they had a Boris with the Bluto I would have gotten that instead.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

I just ordered a Surley LOU for the rear to start with. Amazing how the price varies on the web between $130 and $170. Who's paying $170? Jenson was $130 free shipping. I can get one at a time no prob's. I'll get the Bud if this works, which it probably will.

Mine is solely a snow bike so this combo should totally rock this winter.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> , wouldn't aluminum be better than steel considering the salt? Not that the frame will instantly rust out... But long term.


Probably, particularly if you were planning to commute with it.

The bike my Lurch will replace was aluminium (just sold it) and it survived lots of abuse unscathed. But I have owned other MTBs that were steel and they were OK too. I guess will have to be a little more mindful with this one. Maybe even use "frame saver" on it.


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## tdamlo (Nov 17, 2008)

Just got an email from bikes direct, the Boris models have arrived at their warehouse.


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

fastpunk said:


> Just got an email from bikes direct, the Boris models have arrived at their warehouse.


I haven't received an email yet but only recently ordered mine - what model/size/color and when did you order approximately?!


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I didn't get an email about anything 

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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Yeah me to :
Hi, Thanks very much for your order with Bikesdirect.com. GOOD NEWS!! Your bike has arrived to our warehouse today! We plan to begin shipping these today. If you have any problems with this, please let us know. The best way is to reply to this email, or you can always call us at 904-249-2453. If you don't reach us between 9-5 EST just call back as we may be on the other line with a customer. We thank you for your business and most importantly your patience. We look forward to completing your order as soon as possible. Thanks for being a valued customer, you are saving hundreds with BikesDirect.com!


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

My Boris X9 is on the way!!! Now we should start a new thread upon receiving our bikes!!!

Shipping 
Shipped on 8/21/2014 using UPS Ground

Your bike/s will be shipped via UPS and will arrive in 3 to 7 business days.
It may take up to 48 hours to show a pick up scan and movement in the UPS system. 
To change delivery address or delivery date AND UPS.com shows a pick up scan, use this link Click HERE


Thank you for your purchase from BikesDirect.com!


Please click on the links below for important information AND remember to wear a helmet when you ride


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## Ckbrin (Jun 19, 2014)

After waiting all summer for Sturgis and Nighttrain news, and considering the Boris, I have reverted back to what I almost purchased in May. My Matte Black FB4 Pro should be here monday. The Boris seems like a better component value, but I just prefer a classic diamond pattern frame, and now that they have it in Matte Black, that sealed the deal.

Reference Number(s):FB4 PRO ||
Shipped/Billed On:08/21/2014
TypeackageWeight:30.00 lbs


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

radnur22 said:


> My Boris X9 is on the way!!! Now we should start a new thread upon receiving our bikes!!!


I did when i got my http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/gravity-bullseye-monster-920263.html and sugest that you do too. I think having a detailed thread for each specific model that BD offers helps to consolidate and organize the information. it would also be super helpful for those trying to decide what bike to get, as they could look directly at the models they are looking at rather than trying to sift through this mega-thread (or worse, ask a question thats already been answered because they dont feel like reading the whole thing)


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

radnur22 said:


> My Boris X9 is on the way!!! Now we should start a new thread upon receiving our bikes!!!
> 
> Shipping
> Shipped on 8/21/2014 using UPS Ground
> ...


Oh wow, I did not get that message, only it has arrived.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I wanted the green gravity, but they weren't available for order so while looking at the Boris I realized the x5 comes in pearl white so I was like i want that! 

Lol I'm so jealous I haven't gotten anything for mine 


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

Got my email about stock being in and starting to ship today - no email yet saying mine has shipped yet though. Maybe they are trickling the emails out by model - x9 first, then x7 then x5.

Definitely agree we should begin model specific threads for these bikes, would be a great resource.


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## domoMKIV (Feb 29, 2012)

AndrewZorn said:


> You're in a thread about a Bikes Direct bike, going to the store is not an option.


Not entirely true. There are bike shops carrying these brands - Cycle Spectrum. They are few and far between but they do exist for some of us.



ou2mame said:


> I wanted the green gravity, but they weren't available for order so while looking at the Boris I realized the x5 comes in pearl white so I was like i want that!


I have been opening the webpage a few times a day trying to push myself to order one, I just don't know. :madman:


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

pxpaulx said:


> Got my email about stock being in and starting to ship today - no email yet saying mine has shipped yet though. Maybe they are trickling the emails out by model - x9 first, then x7 then x5.
> 
> Definitely agree we should begin model specific threads for these bikes, would be a great resource.


I ordered my X9 on 7/18, so it could be by order date.

edit: i just checked my tracking number and it shipped out today and will arrive by end of day Tuesday, boy i hope im home from work in time because these are signature required.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

sml-2727 said:


> I ordered my X9 on 7/18, so it could be by order date.
> 
> edit: i just checked my tracking number and it shipped out today and will arrive by end of day Tuesday, boy i hope im home from work in time because these are signature required.


If the UPS hub is anywhere near you, create a UPS account and redirect the shipment to "will call".


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Or you can redirect to any UPS store for 5 bucks


Pedaling


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## Trauma05 (May 24, 2012)

Seems like they undersold the X9 17" and I was able to order one!


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Congrats. Nice to be able to get that immediate gratification without the wait.



Trauma05 said:


> Seems like they undersold the X9 17" and I was able to order one!


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## hedz0r (Jul 17, 2013)

I think you can maybe get around signing for the package with UPS if you live in an area that does not have a mandatory signature release. From Got Questions about UPS My Choice? We?ve got Answers. | upside Blog



> How do I electronically release packages?
> 
> There are two options to request that the UPS driver release a package without your signature.
> 
> ...


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

hedz0r said:


> I think you can maybe get around signing for the package with UPS if you live in an area that does not have a mandatory signature release. From Got Questions about UPS My Choice? We?ve got Answers. | upside Blog


Thanks for the heads up.

Doing a little more reading it says, shippers can turn off those options, and after looking they must if done just that.


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## hedz0r (Jul 17, 2013)

sml-2727 said:


> Thanks for the heads up.
> 
> Doing a little more reading it says, shippers can turn off those options, and after looking they must if done just that.


dang


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I electronically signed for mine and it hasn't even shipped yet.. I've never not been able to. I don't know if state laws make it mandatory in other states, but I'm in one of the most liberal and bureaucratic states in America. You'd think in ny if they could make a law they would, just to make another law. 

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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Barheet said:


> I get that feeling because you seem to think that buying a bike that's too small is a good idea. But hey, buy whatever you want. Anybody on a fatbike is a friend, sorry if I offended.


I said I was between medium and small and would prefer a smallER frame to one that felt too big. It's pretty rare (or imaginary, even) to find a frame that fits perfectly when there are only 4 sizes to choose from.


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## Ralph (Aug 22, 2014)

*Bike size*



AndrewZorn said:


> Ah, more scary posts making me worry about my choice of Small when I'm 5'9" tall.


Bikes sizes are like clothing...nothing is standard. I'm only 5'9" with a 31" inseam. I always fall between sizes and prefer the ride/feel/control of the larger size. After looking at the BD sizing, I measured the stand over height on my mountain bikes. The large Lurch stand over fell between my 19" Redline and M/L Fuji (measured from the middle of the top tube to the ground)


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Ralph said:


> Bikes sizes are like clothing...nothing is standard. I'm only 5'9" with a 31" inseam. I always fall between sizes and prefer the ride/feel/control of the larger size. After looking at the BD sizing, I measured the stand over height on my mountain bikes. The large Lurch stand over fell between my 19" Redline and M/L Fuji (measured from the middle of the top tube to the ground)


Well yeah, I get that, but we are all looking at buying a bike online that doesn't even exist yet.


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## Ralph (Aug 22, 2014)

AndrewZorn said:


> Well yeah, I get that, but we are all looking at buying a bike online that doesn't even exist yet.


Totally agree! That's why pulling the trigger on something I can't swing a leg over is a little scary. I went back and forth between picking a size and, thankfully, came up with the idea to measure what I have.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I'm 5'8 and went with the 17 cause it matches my trek and I'm comfortable on it. I plan on a 40 or 60mm stem anyways. I definitely don't like the feel of 80mm on any bike 

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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

You guys are making me feel like I made a mistake getting a small (sturgis), knowing I will put a 40-60mm stem on it, and I'm 5'9".


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## Ralph (Aug 22, 2014)

bwilson...not at all. It's not a one size fits all, it's what works for our particular preferences. Measure what you have and compare that to the sizing chart. If I hadn't done that, I would have ordered the wrong size.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I was torn between the two, but after measuring and comparing to the geo chart of the khs I went with the 17. I dunno.. I won't know til I sit on it lol 

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## Ckbrin (Jun 19, 2014)

I am 5'11'' and ordered a 17 inch FB4 Pro. Going by their chart 17 inch will fit up to 6 feet tall, hope it works for me.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

If they went with even numbers then we wouldn't be having this debate. 

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## rajcoont (Jun 19, 2014)

please start arriving bikes to spare us pages of threads consisting only of sizing thoughts and questions


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Just got my email confirmation that my bike arrived and will ship today! Wooooooo

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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

ou2mame said:


> Just got my email confirmation that my bike arrived and will ship today! Wooooooo
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


What you order?


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

White 17" x5 Boris 

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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

ou2mame said:


> White 17" x5 Boris
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


Cool, keep an eye on the tracking number they sent you awhile back, I never got a email saying my bike has shipped.


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

mine is going out today as well, black boris x7 17 inch, ordered 8/12.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

make sure you boris peeps start a thread! include honest opinions to help everybody else see what the bikes are really like.
oh! and pictures! lots and lots of pictures


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

What size is the head tube on the Boris? Is it 44mm so with a conversion cup you could run a Bluto? Just curious...


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

Destr0 said:


> What size is the head tube on the Boris? Is it 44mm so with a conversion cup you could run a Bluto? Just curious...


its probably a few pages back by now, but this was discussed recently. i think they decided that it would work, but go check it out.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I searched before I asked and couldn't find it. Hard to find anything in 116 pages and the search feature didn't help (nor did a quick Google search).

Tempted to order a Boris X5 to ride until November, then sell or keep as a loaner bike. Wife will probably shoot me though - just bought the Sturgis Bullet AND a used Pugsley for my 9 year old.


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## tonyvt (Mar 26, 2010)

Destr0 said:


> I searched before I asked and couldn't find it. Hard to find anything in 116 pages and the search feature didn't help (nor did a quick Google search).
> 
> Tempted to order a Boris X5 to ride until November, then sell or keep as a loaner bike. Wife will probably shoot me though - just bought the Sturgis Bullet AND a Pugsley for my 9 year old.


Might as well go for the Boris X5. I won't tell your wife.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I think you need an x5 laying around... Can't hurt right? 

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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Going to hold off until the Salsa demo day tomorrow. I may end up ordering a BuckSaw frame set...


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## Trauma05 (May 24, 2012)

X9 shipped, I went from  to  in less than a week. My GF ordered a Framed 2.0 Women's model so it looks like its going to be a fat winter!


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## RobKong (Jun 7, 2010)

I was about to order a lurch, but I was back in my hometown this week and a friend who opened a bike shop made me too good a deal on a Pugsley to pass up. So I'm off the Bikes Direct bandwagon. Curious to read reviews of the Lurch and Sturgis/Night Train when you guys get them...


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Just a heads up, Jenson USA sent me a 15% off coupon after I bought a Surley Lou rear tire. Then I used the coupon to buy a Bud for the front. Sweet deal. The Lou is already installed. Nice fricken tire, wow. It's just like when I was a kid, can't wait to ride in the snow.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I'm 5' 8" with a 29" inseam. Ordered a 15.5" sturgis bullet. I always ride a medium or 17-17.5. My other bikes are an 18.5" rocky element and a 17" Marin muirwoods 28er. What's common about them is a 585mm ett. 

The 15.5" sturgis is 593mm. The 17.5" is 597mm. Yes. Only 5mm difference. When I asked bd, they said the 15.5 couldn't have a shorter ett otherwise there would be tie overlap. So I ordered the 15.5 as it's closest ett to my other bikes. And I didn't want an ett about 12 mm longer than my other bikes. My only worry was the short seat tube but a 350mm post should be enough for my 29" inseam legs. And it comes with a 400mm so the smaller frame will shed a few grams too. I ride with a camelback but if I were to ride exclusively with bottles I may want the 17.5" for better bottle/cage options.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Is it Tuesday yet? I feel like a little kid waiting for Xmas morning.


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

sml-2727 said:


> Is it Tuesday yet? I feel like a little kid waiting for Xmas morning.


It's not bothering me too much. The rain has been coming down since yesterday and it should clear by Sunday night. Dry and 80's by Tuesday, which I have off. UPS usually delivers around 10 AM, so I'll have enough time to assemble, tune and ride


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Did 15 miles of trails on the Salsa Demo bikes today. Rode a Large frame and XL in the BuckSaw as well as the Beargrease (did a 5 mile loop on each). I am changing my order to an XL.  Bucksaw was amazing and Beargrease was crazy light for an XL sized fatty. Had so much fun... now I wait until my Sturgis Bullet shows up. November. :-(
I am now thinking in the spring I will order a Bucksaw frame and take my time building it up while riding the Sturgis.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

I cant wait til these bikes start showing up on on door steps and getting some reviews on them, me thinks BD is going to have a huge waiting list on there hands with the outrageous prices other makes are charging for fatbikes. 

2 days days til Boris....


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

hey Destro..
How tall are you and what inseam? I have a 21 boris on the way and the specs look a lot like the Mukluk in effective tt and standover. I am 6 2 1/2 and 34 inseam.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Hey Guys...Do you think going with a Bluto 100mm would be a bad idea...Ordered Non Bluto Night-Train cause I wanted the rigid fork and I'm diggin the glossy jet black. Seems the price on a Bluto 100mm vs 120mm is a bit cheaper, Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

brassos said:


> hey Destro..
> How tall are you and what inseam? I have a 21 boris on the way and the specs look a lot like the Mukluk in effective tt and standover. I am 6 2 1/2 and 34 inseam.


similar size here, 6'3" 34 inseam. i went with the 19" Boris. i went back and forth between 19 and 21, and ultimately the ETT scared me. it's so long for a 19" frame. curious to hear what everyone thinks about the fit of their frame when these start arriving.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

BENKD29 said:


> curious to hear what everyone thinks about the fit of their frame when these start arriving.


Yes, me too. Seems we have lots of different preference for frame sizes according to our body size. Might even be helpful for others to post a sideshot of us sitting on our bikes


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

my local bike shop is about 100 yards away and they had the KHS 4 season version. It was a 19.
I sat on it and like it. The manager there had just purchased it. He is about 5 11 to maybe 6 foot tall. He said he was changing the stem to 60mm and wider bars. He preferred longer ETT and a short stem. 
That is how i jumped to the 21. I have the 60mm truvativ stem here. 
I used the chart of geometry at KHS:
4 SEASON 3000 | KHS Bicycles
I had taken all the measurements i needed at competitivecyclist.com
My ETT is 25.0 so i hope it all works. Will see in a few days.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Well my current ride is a Moto Fantom 29er in 19", and it fits fine but between the 19 and 21 in the Salsa (and the geo charts on the moto and Salsa are within a couple mm of each other) I liked the 21 better. I am 6'3" tall with a 33" inseam and long torso. 
I think either one would fit with some cockpit tweaking, but I am really liking the short stem and wide bar setup so a larger frame will let me do that. I am running a 100mm stem and 20mm setback seat on my 19" Fantom.


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

Semi update here..
So i go out to the garage to measure my Klein Rascal from 1989.. It's a 21", all these years i just remember it as a 19". Checked my Fisher Joshua also a 20 to 21. And last but not least my Klein Palomino with the maverick sc32 fork. Under 18: so maybe 17" with the strange bb system it has. 
All feel great but i definitely see the seats way back and long stems. 
So i think the 21 will be fine. 
Night all...


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Bd better hurry the **** up and ship my bike I broke my fork and don't have a backup! I need something to ride! 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

Hi all, This may or may not be of interest, but it appears there are some matte black Motobecane 2015 Fantom FB4 Pros in stock and available to ship. The blurb in the yellow box said they were sold out, but the drop down menu said "pull down for new matte black". It showed as available in my shopping cart, and I received an email with shipping confirmation and tracking number. I hadn't really wanted to bump up to the pro, but for an extra $100 that I won't remember next year, it seemed like the thing to do. Thanks for all the great input here...no way would I have been comfortable buying from an unknown online entity without all the positive feedback. Hope this helps someone, and wasn't already posted higher up. I looked, but that doesn't mean I just missed it.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

My friend wants to get a new mtb and convert his to ride on the street.. I'm gonna convince him to get a fat bike lol

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## Ckbrin (Jun 19, 2014)

I ordered mine last week, Matte Black with Blue rim strips. The lady from the UPS Store just called me, and told me I had a large package.


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

Great! Maybe mine really is on the way! Do you have any idea if the front wheel has the double holes still? I saw a blurb that one of the other FB4's had done away with the double holes this year, and I was hoping it was the same for the pro.


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## Ckbrin (Jun 19, 2014)

I also like the double hole wheels, I will know in about 4 hours. Can't wait, I will post some pics after I put it together since BD has yet to post an updated picture of the 2015 FB4 Pro. I would also like to see the Boris X9 in Silver if anyone got one of those, I came close to getting the Boris instead.


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

Pics would be great. I really, really wanted to get the Boris...seemed like the best bang for your buck, but I prefer the straight more retro looking bars on such a crazy looking bike, and it was only available in my size in sea foam green and another girly color. Are the black ones even made in the 15" sizes? That being said, I AM a girl, so I am going to put some purple rim tape on the wheels, anodized purple seat post, pedals, spacers, and handlebar clamps and see how it looks. Maybe not the seat post. Still debating. I'm such a girl.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

Ckbrin said:


> The lady from the UPS Store just called me, and told me I had a large package.


giggity.


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## Cheburussian (Aug 25, 2014)

Hello,evridebody ;-) Thanks ya'll for all the info about bikesdirect bikes!So,today i've got my black Boris X9 21" finaly.Glad to become a member of this incredible gang!!!


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Cheburussian said:


> Hello,evridebody ;-) Thanks ya'll for all the info about bikesdirect bikes!So,today i've got my black Boris X9 21" finaly.Glad to become a member of this incredible gang!!!


Picks or it didn't happen.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Cheburussian (Aug 25, 2014)

Not much pics for now.Only box.The rest is at the bikeshop.I've desided better pay,than screw this beauty up with my cheap hex keys and 0,0% knowledge of wrenching.Anyway,since i'm new here.How to upload pics?


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## Cheburussian (Aug 25, 2014)

Yeah.Funny moment.I was searching for the bike shops around me and found the only one with no week-long waiting line: Boris Western Bike

http://goo.gl/maps/H5EBv Just a happy coincidence


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## Ckbrin (Jun 19, 2014)

FB4 Pro acquired. Matte Black with blue trim (rim tape and spacers). Had time for a short ride, the most obvious difference from a ordinary 26er is crawling over curbs at will. No wheelie necessary at low speed. Very happy so far.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

You put your bike together yourself, and then you take pics and click add attachment or something lol

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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

WOW! Pics are starting to come in on these bikes! Interesting and sad. I had to cancel my order due to buying a house and the house I was going to buy got away from us! Now I' wishing I didn't cancel my order!


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Xpcgamer said:


> WOW! Pics are starting to come in on these bikes! Interesting and sad. I had to cancel my order due to buying a house and the house I was going to buy got away from us! Now I' wishing I didn't cancel my order!


There are still several left. You just need to go through the check out procedure to what sizes/colors are left.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

So should we start a BD thread for fatbikes under fatbikes or under Motobecane?


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## mikeymon1 (Mar 28, 2014)

sml-2727 said:


> So should we start a BD thread for fatbikes under fatbikes or under Motobecane?


Someone started a Gravity Bullseye thread, so, sure, start a Moto Boris thread-


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

sml-2727 said:


> So should we start a BD thread for fatbikes under fatbikes or under Motobecane?


I just did mine under fat bikes. Gravity isnt really a brand like motobecane is though.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Motobecane isn't really a brand like most brands are lol

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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

My vote is for the individually named bikes - considering the number of pages in this thread, I don't think that is too much to expect there will be a healthy amount of discussion for each of the models - Gravity already has its own, start up a Boris!


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## Solo-Rider (Sep 15, 2013)

Well, this is the first motobecane photo thread. Moto FB4, she almost a year old.

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/show-us-your-moto-fatbikes-881887.html


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Xpcgamer said:


> WOW! Pics are starting to come in on these bikes! Interesting and sad. I had to cancel my order due to buying a house and the house I was going to buy got away from us! Now I' wishing I didn't cancel my order!


I don't see any pics off the Boris. All I see is the FB4. Come on guys, let's see those new Boris.


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

Negotiator50 said:


> I don't see any pics off the Boris. All I see is the FB4. Come on guys, let's see those new Boris.


The Boris just started shipping on Thursday, not sure many have even received them yet - have some patience!


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## Cheburussian (Aug 25, 2014)

I received my Boris X9 yesterday morning at UPS.Guy at Boris Western bike store boriswesternbikestore.com said it's gonna take a couple days to tune ot.Hopefully today or tommorow i'll post a pictures.


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

pxpaulx said:


> The Boris just started shipping on Thursday, not sure many have even received them yet - have some patience!


My X9 is out for delivery! Waiting patiently for the big brown truck. When I get it assembled I'll take pictures and post on a new thread, then out for a ride on the trail!


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## Cheburussian (Aug 25, 2014)

radnur22 My box got a hole in it.At UPS they said: ,,We're not responcible.Contact the sender."Turned out right shifter is scratched a little bit.Not a big deal.I will plasti dip the whole bike anyway ;-) Also watch out for the clips,which attach the cables to a frame.They are so easy to loose.I'm missing one already.Probably BD los it at the packaging moment.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

ou2mame said:


> Motobecane isn't really a brand like most brands are lol
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


yeah, i know. i guess i meant that it doesn't have it's own category in the forum.


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## MIKE157 (Nov 30, 2008)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> yeah, i know. i guess i meant that it doesn't have it's own category in the forum.


It does have it's own category ?


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

Many thanks for the pics, ckbrin. I don't think I will post pics of my black FB4 Pro when it gets here, because, well, it will strongly resemble yours.


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## Cheburussian (Aug 25, 2014)

If i have a weight ~300 lbs,should i still worry about lightening the bike(q-tubes,carbon pieces,lighter pedals e.t.c.)?


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

May I ask an incredibly blonde question? Using a different color tape on the inside of the rims....obviously it doesn't go sticky side down and become crusted in dirt, so how do you handle that???! Feel free to snicker


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

Destr0 said:


> I am now thinking in the spring I will order a Bucksaw frame and take my time building it up while riding the Sturgis.


...must be nice


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## Ckbrin (Jun 19, 2014)

finsterlee said:


> Many thanks for the pics, ckbrin. I don't think I will post pics of my black FB4 Pro when it gets here, because, well, it will strongly resemble yours.


You can post yours after adding your mods, I might be able to get my wife to get one too. She can test ride mine since we are both the same height.

Hope to take the whole family out to the Atlanta Beltline this weekend, and get some dirt time too.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

finsterlee said:


> May I ask an incredibly blonde question? Using a different color tape on the inside of the rims....obviously it doesn't go sticky side down and become crusted in dirt, so how do you handle that???! Feel free to snicker


the rim strips that fat bikes use aren't adhesive. they are different than the rim tape used on standard bikes. i've had pretty good results with using colored and patterned duct tape on the inside of the rim strips so that it shows through the holes. ...or you can just go buy rim strips in the color you want, (but that isn't free)


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

Ckbrin said:


> Hope to take the whole family out to the Atlanta Beltline this weekend, and get some dirt time too.


I used to live in Atlanta! Poncey Highlands area near midtown. Now I live in Park City, Utah. Toys for grown ups are required to live here. We have snow on the ground from Oct/November until April/May, so I figure a fat bike may be useful.


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> the rim strips that fat bikes use aren't adhesive. they are different than the rim tape used on standard bikes. i've had pretty good results with using colored and patterned duct tape on the inside of the rim strips so that it shows through the holes. ...or you can just go buy rim strips in the color you want, (but that isn't free)


I've looked at the rim strips, and I assumed they were stretchy rubbery strips, but I have not seen any in purple. There's my girly kicking in  So by default, I figured I would have to go the duct tape route. So how do you secure it to the rim when it is sticky side up trying to grab on to the tube/tire? That's the part that has me stumped. I'm sure it is an obvious answer. I've seen where people have used fabric, but I'm concerned about how it would hold up under mud and nasty dirty snow slush.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

These strips are like a band. If using tape, sticky side up toward tube. Wrap the rim and tape the overlapping ends. Now you have a sorta band w/ the sticky up. Now another wrap is needed to cover the sticky side. 


Pedaling


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

rjedoaks said:


> Wrap the rim and tape the overlapping ends. ....Now another wrap is needed to cover the sticky side.


ah HA! Yep, makes perfect sense now! Thanks so much! Putting a second wrap is the part I couldn't come up with.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

finsterlee said:


> I've looked at the rim strips, and I assumed they were stretchy rubbery strips, but I have not seen any in purple. There's my girly kicking in  So by default, I figured I would have to go the duct tape route. So how do you secure it to the rim when it is sticky side up trying to grab on to the tube/tire? That's the part that has me stumped. I'm sure it is an obvious answer. I've seen where people have used fabric, but I'm concerned about how it would hold up under mud and nasty dirty snow slush.


ive just taped over the existing rimstrip.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I just want mine to ship lol

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## Ckbrin (Jun 19, 2014)

There is a whole thread on fatbike rim strips

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/different-coloured-rim-strips-where-can-i-get-them-796691.html

I was going to get the FB4 Elite, and change all the green to blue. Of course when the 2015 FB4 Pro showed up with the exact configuration I wanted, it was time to pull the trigger. If the Rigid Sturgis or Night Train where available in Matte Black I might have waited for them. By the way I am in Decatur Ga.


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> I just want mine to ship lol
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


I thought it had! Mine just went out yesterday, arriving thursday.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I emailed them and they said it's going out today. I got a confirmation on friday saying that it will ship but not that it actually shipped. And I didn't see the tracking update yesterday... So today I guess. I'll wait, but not patiently. 

Oh well.. Its cool, my blue cables got a head start 

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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

Yeah, I wanted the Elite too, and over the weekend it was showing as sold out in a 15" but now it is back in stock. Aaaargh. Not sure I needed to spend the extra $100 on upgraded Deore components for a second bike that I really shouldn't be getting in the first place! Oh, well. My 9 year old has the alivio setup on his 24" Rocky Mountain, and it has done surprisingly well. Three years of abuse riding the mountains with a local boys class all summer, and on trips to Moab. Actually it was a used bike when he got it, so that would make it 7 years old now and all we've done is tune it up and replace the hangar due to a crash. But maybe we've just been lucky.

Thanks for the thread on rim strips. I had seen it before, but should go back and read the entire thing. I like Decatur. Miss the farmer's market and their hummus.


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## misstelecaster12000 (Aug 26, 2014)

Hi everybody,
Sorry for my american language, I'm french!! 
Maybe the subject already exists, so excuse me in advance.
I try to buy a motobecane fat bike but in France it's impossible. The only site which sell motobecanne fat bike that I found is directsbike.com but they refuse to ship in France.
Can you tell me where can I find a motobecane fatbike please ? 

Thank you!!


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

You would have to have it shipped to a USA address and they would have to ship it to you I assume, if they don't offer international shipping 

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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

misstelecaster12000 said:


> Hi everybody,
> Sorry for my american language, I'm french!!
> Maybe the subject already exists, so excuse me in advance.
> I try to buy a motobecane fat bike but in France it's impossible. The only site which sell motobecanne fat bike that I found is directsbike.com but they refuse to ship in France.
> Can you tell me where can I find a motobecane fatbike please ?


Your language is perfect! You could also try looking at Framed Bikes They are similar to motobecane fat bikes and they cost almost the same. They sell through online stores that might ship to France. One of the stores is: The House ? Outdoor Gear, Outerwear & Bikes - Save up to 70%


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Motobecane no longer exists as a stand alone manufacturer. It's just a marketing name that is used by bikesdirect.com. Meaning, bikesdirect.com is the only place you can buy one. 

Have you looked into a package forwarding service? They'll give you a US address for bikesdirect to ship to, and then they'll forward it to you.


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## Cheburussian (Aug 25, 2014)

I got my new Boris X9 from the bike shop after tuning.Rode him(Boris is a russian male name,BTW  ) like a crazy for 1 hour.Wanna share the pictures,but don't know how to.I an new here.Also,the guy at the buke shop said the tire pressure is 22 now.What is the average tire pressure for commuting?I am 300 lbs.Thanks!


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## Cheburussian (Aug 25, 2014)

*Pics of my new Борис X9.*

Recieved him yesterday.Put everything together and brought it to a LBS.Now it's ready.Love it big time!!!


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

Cheburussian said:


> I got my new Boris X9 from the bike shop after tuning.Rode him(Boris is a russian male name,BTW  ) like a crazy for 1 hour.Wanna share the pictures,but don't know how to.I an new here.Also,the guy at the buke shop said the tire pressure is 22 now.What is the average tire pressure for commuting?I am 300 lbs.Thanks!


I'm calling my Boris Natasha! hahaha.

22psi sounds pretty high for a fat bike tire, but on the road might be fine - i'm sure others here will know better. I do know that tire pressure has way more effect on the riding experience with a fat bike, so I would suggest you buy a good floor pump, then experiment with what feels best for your ride.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Is that an industrial ashtray in front of your house? That's pretty bad ass lol

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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Cheburussian said:


> Recieved him yesterday.Put everything together and brought it to a LBS.Now it's ready.Love it big time!!!


I hope you aren't going to use that cable lock for that bike, especially in a public place.


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## Cheburussian (Aug 25, 2014)

Yeah,Chi-town.Windy City


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## Cheburussian (Aug 25, 2014)

Normal ashtray would be blown.


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## Cheburussian (Aug 25, 2014)

AndrewZorn Thanks for an advice.I took that lock from my matching color cruiser Moondog Kulana.Now i realy must invest more for security.What are the best options?


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Best option is to not leave it out if your sight or in your home.. Beyond that, it's mainly luck. 

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## MattNorv (Jun 1, 2013)

ou2mame said:


> Best option is to not leave it out if your sight or in your home.. Beyond that, it's mainly luck.
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


Especially in Chicago


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## misstelecaster12000 (Aug 26, 2014)

finsterlee said:


> Your language is perfect! You could also try looking at Framed Bikes They are similar to motobecane fat bikes and they cost almost the same. They sell through online stores that might ship to France. One of the stores is: The House ? Outdoor Gear, Outerwear & Bikes - Save up to 70%


Thank you for all these answers!! I saw the website TheHouse, Framed FatBikes are good but I prefer Motobecane Fatbikes, they are a better look!! I contacted bikesdirect.com and they answered me the only solution is to have a friend or family in USA who could send me the bike, or to contact a transport company (UPS International for exemple) which will send it to me. But I think it's too complicated. I contacted a french friend of me because his son live at Washington DC so I proposed him to send me the bike if I buy on bikesdirect.com. I wait his answer.
In France Fat Bike are very rare and when there are on sale they are very very expensive!!


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

I agree, Motobecane looks better to me too! But I may get my son a kids' fat Mini-Sota Framed 24" bike. Good luck with your friend's son helping with shipping. maybe someone here that has been on the forum a long time that everyone approves of may be willing to help out too.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

misstelecaster12000 said:


> I contacted bikesdirect.com and they answered me the only solution is to have a friend or family in USA who could send me the bike, or to contact a transport company (UPS International for exemple) which will send it to me.


There are a lot of companies that specialize in this. Google "usa package forwarding"

Reship.com
USA2ME, RV Mail Forwarding Services, Remailing, US Mailing Address, Mail Receiving Forwarding
MyUS.com - #1 International Shipping, Mail and Package Forwarding Service - MyUS.com


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

AndrewZorn said:


> I hope you aren't going to use that cable lock for that bike, especially in a public place.


Agreed! If that was where the bike is going to be locked long term, I would get 2 heavy chains, one around the rear wheel through the frame, and the second to secure the front wheel. By heavy I mean kryptonite chain locks. If that were my house I would bolt a secure mount right into the concrete to fasten it all. If not I hope the pillars aren't wood, wouldn't be surprised to find it sawn right through one morning. Also, get some bike insurance!


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## misstelecaster12000 (Aug 26, 2014)

finsterlee said:


> I agree, Motobecane looks better to me too! But I may get my son a kids' fat Mini-Sota Framed 24" bike. Good luck with your friend's son helping with shipping. maybe someone here that has been on the forum a long time that everyone approves of may be willing to help out too.


If I cannot buy on bikesdirect.com I shall try to find a second-hand motobecanne (if the seller agrees to send to France!!! )


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

It shipped! Delivery is scheduled for Friday.. Woooo

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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

Did the lurch ship out yet?


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

M


AdventureRider said:


> Did the lurch ship out yet?


There was a post on the bikes direct Facebook page a week or so ago that the lurch were slightly delayed but might start shipping at the end of this week if they arrive at their warehouse, otherwise they thought next week they would arrive.


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

I have my final dumb question of the day. Why does just the front rim have double holes on some of the bikes but the back rim has single holes? It wasn't a deal breaker, but I don't like it. Anyone wanna swap? :thumbsup:

Edit: the specs on the bike say the rims are both 26x3.0-4 1/4 Same size front and rear.


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## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

Cheburussian said:


> radnur22 My box got a hole in it.At UPS they said: ,,We're not responcible.Contact the sender."Turned out right shifter is scratched a little bit.Not a big deal.I will plasti dip the whole bike anyway ;-) Also watch out for the clips,which attach the cables to a frame.They are so easy to loose.I'm missing one already.Probably BD los it at the packaging moment.


replace all those clips with zipp ties - the clips will vanish right away


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Yeah.. I like the way they look.. So clean and purposeful, but they fall off 

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## Cheburussian (Aug 25, 2014)

I wish Boris X9 would have an internal cables,like a Salsa Beargrease


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Drill some holes lol

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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

finsterlee said:


> I have my final dumb question of the day. Why does just the front rim have double holes on some of the bikes but the back rim has single holes? It wasn't a deal breaker, but I don't like it. Anyone wanna swap? :thumbsup:


On some bikes this is because the wheels are different sizes. The lacing pattern is different from front to back and the rear bub tends to be offset (it is not symmetrical to the wheel).


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## misstelecaster12000 (Aug 26, 2014)

Is there a site of sale of fatbike second-hand? I looked on kijiji but I found nothing for me.


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## Ckbrin (Jun 19, 2014)

rex615 said:


> On some bikes this is because the wheels are different sizes. The lacing pattern is different from front to back and the rear bub tends to be offset (it is not symmetrical to the wheel).


This is the detailed description of the FB4 Pro rims.

Rims	DOUBLE-WALL RIMS, FRT 1	ALLOY RIM, 26"x3.0-4 1/4", 14Gx32H, F/V, W/BIG HOLE(32mm), FINISH: ANODIZED BLACK,
RIM RR 1	ALLOY RIM, 26"x3.0-4 1/4", 14Gx32H, F/V, W/BIG HOLE(32mm), 11.5mm, FINISH: ANODIZED BLACK, Rim Strip 26", NYLON, WIDTH: 75mm / 95mm, GREEN

The last part says width 75mm / 95mm. Is that the rim width :rear/front. I guess I can measure mine when I get home tonight.


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

I went back and started reading this thread from the very beginning (it was a very slow night last night!) and got to the part from the gentleman who is the product development guy for the Norwegian company that the Motobecanes are knock offs of...at least that was my interpretation of what I read. He addresses this, and says with his companies' bikes the back rim is smaller due to the clearance issues, and he assumes the Motobecane is the same since it appears to be an exact copy made in the same factory as his in China. Feel free to correct me if I did not read far enough or misunderstood. That would absolutely explain the double holes in front.

The specs are confusing to me, since the way I read it is that they list the rims as both being 3" but the nylon rim strips as having the 75/95 sizing. That can't be! No worries, I will know soon enough. Just was curious since I know I will get questions about it once I take it out. Thanks for the info.


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

just pulled the trigger on the Bullet. they were out of red in my size, so i jumped on the gray one. i was going to wait a few weeks to sell my pugsley, but with how quick these are selling out, i took a chance. no emails about delayed shipping yet.

why would i trade a perfectly good puglsy (and better sizing) for the Bullet? well, i really wanted that bluto. Pugs cant take it. I have chronic carpal tunnell and tendonitis that was made so much worse from the pugs. I just cant do rigid bikes, not matter how cushy the tires are. Hoping having the fork wont beat me up too much, and i already have a very interested buyer for my pugs (a very petite lady who is having trouble finding size XS). Fingers crossed all goes well!


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Have you tried a carbon bar? The flex might take out the smaller vibrations.. And thicker, softer grips too. 

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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

no cahbon bahs (i need a very specific high rise), but i do have all kinds of grips i've tried out, currently using ESI chunkies. something about moving around the front end and the lack of real suspension, and the bounce-back. i use this on dirt AND snow. i wont be losing out much, since i'm selling my pugs for almost what i'm buying the bullet for.


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## draco_m (Oct 13, 2013)

Question: If I want a fatbike with a steel (chromoly) frame for under $1,000. Is the Lurch my only option? Or is there something else I should consider?


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

rex615 said:


> On some bikes this is because the wheels are different sizes. The lacing pattern is different from front to back and the rear bub tends to be offset (it is not symmetrical to the wheel).


Thanks, rex....it all makes sense as long as the rim specs quoted on the website are wrong.


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## makaman (Mar 9, 2012)

JoeMountain said:


> Just a heads up, Jenson USA sent me a 15% off coupon after I bought a Surley Lou rear tire. Then I used the coupon to buy a Bud for the front. Sweet deal. The Lou is already installed. Nice fricken tire, wow. It's just like when I was a kid, can't wait to ride in the snow.


Hello, Impatiently waiting for JoeMountain to post pics of his Surly Lou mounted on his FB4 Pro. And maybe a little fitment review. Very interested in using the same set up for winter on my FB4 Pro. Thanks.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Ckbrin said:


> This is the detailed description of the FB4 Pro rims.
> 
> Rims DOUBLE-WALL RIMS, FRT 1 ALLOY RIM, 26"x3.0-4 1/4", 14Gx32H, F/V, W/BIG HOLE(32mm), FINISH: ANODIZED BLACK,
> RIM RR 1 ALLOY RIM, 26"x3.0-4 1/4", 14Gx32H, F/V, W/BIG HOLE(32mm), 11.5mm, FINISH: ANODIZED BLACK, Rim Strip 26", NYLON, WIDTH: 75mm / 95mm, GREEN
> ...


On the FB4, both hubs are 135mm (like a Pugs) and therefore the rear wheel is laced differently than the front.

On the rear the spokes are all on the the drive side of the wheel. It is asymmetric.

On the front wheels the run down both sides of the center. It is symmetric.

It also looks like the front rim is wider than the rear, in spite of what the specs might say.

Please do measure them.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

finsterlee said:


> Thanks, rex....it all makes sense as long as the rim specs quoted on the website are wrong.


We should have an answer when *Ckbrin *gets us some dimensions.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

draco_m said:


> Question: If I want a fatbike with a steel (chromoly) frame for under $1,000. Is the Lurch my only option? Or is there something else I should consider?


Nashbar has this one.


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

rex615 said:


> Nashbar has this one.


That is a solid option too, but specs I don't think will be as good as the lurch (and they are both online purchases anyway!). Also, if going the nashbar route sign up for their email alerts, they run 15-20% off including bikes almost weekly.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

They all pretty much do the same thing. Not a big choice there really. You've got plastic and metal.. Weight is about the same, not noticeable. You will need longer chainring bolts meant for 3 rings though. There's more arguments about chainring bolt material than bash guards lol

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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

I have a Boris x7 on the way. Anyone suggest a bashguard? You can see the 104 bcd on the outer gear. Thanks,
Brass


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## MIKE157 (Nov 30, 2008)

brassos said:


> I have a Boris x7 on the way. Anyone suggest a bashguard? You can see the 104 bcd on the outer gear. Thanks,
> Brass


BBG makes some nice bash guards that wont break the bank.

Mike


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

MIKE157 said:


> BBG makes some nice bash guards that wont break the bank.
> 
> Mike


Do you know which one will fit the x7? Would I have to measure it once I receive the bike, and if that is the case where am I measuring specifically?  Thanks in advance! Also, is the only option to install a bashguard to replace the outer chainring and lose that extra gearing?


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## Cheburussian (Aug 25, 2014)

Should Vee Rubber Buldozer fit on Boris X9?Anybody tried them?


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## MIKE157 (Nov 30, 2008)

pxpaulx said:


> Do you know which one will fit the x7? Would I have to measure it once I receive the bike, and if that is the case where am I measuring specifically? Thanks in advance! Also, is the only option to install a bashguard to replace the outer chainring and lose that extra gearing?


Not sure about the x7 , call the guy at BBG he is friendly and knows his stuff.

Mike


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## treym563 (Jul 24, 2014)

Just received word that the Lurch is in the BD warehouse and they are beginning to process and get orders out. Giggity


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

My boris is an hour away from me in jersey, been there since 3am. They had it scheduled for Friday but yesterday it changed to Tuesday. But since it's only an hour away I'm praying whatever the hold up was, was taken care of. My plan was to go for a ride on Saturday and with my other bike out or commission, this is my only hope for the weekend! 

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## Trauma05 (May 24, 2012)

Got my X9 last night, took a bit longer to put things together because I swapped a few parts out and it's the first time I had to dial in BB7s. Not sure if I'm going to keep the 7s on there or do a swap to SLX. I won't be riding at 20 below so the mineral oil thing doesn't apply. Overall really pleased with my 800.00 purchase.


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## draco_m (Oct 13, 2013)

So does anyone have a Lurch yet? I can't wait to get details and a quick initial review.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I'm probably gonna upgrade my fs to hydraulic and move my bb7s to the Boris next season 

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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Trauma05 said:


> Got my X9 last night, took a bit longer to put things together because I swapped a few parts out and it's the first time I had to dial in BB7s. Not sure if I'm going to keep the 7s on there or do a swap to SLX. I won't be riding at 20 below so the mineral oil thing doesn't apply. Overall really pleased with my 800.00 purchase.


Definitely worth the money, its a fun bike and I cant believe how well it climbs even with those stock tires, I was going over things I never do on my 29er.

BTW there is a Boris thread started.


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## hedz0r (Jul 17, 2013)

draco_m said:


> So does anyone have a Lurch yet? I can't wait to get details and a quick initial review.


BD expects them in there warehouse today. Looks for feedback next week probably.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

From BD just a few minutes ago: "GOOD NEWS!! The container full of Lurch Fat Bikes has arrived to our warehouse and is being unloaded now! We plan to begin shipping these tomorrow."


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## hedz0r (Jul 17, 2013)

baker said:


> From BD just a few minutes ago: "GOOD NEWS!! The container full of Lurch Fat Bikes has arrived to our warehouse and is being unloaded now! We plan to begin shipping these tomorrow."


Hah! was just going to post this same thing.... giddy as a frickin school girl..


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Ups needs a tunnel... That ends at my street 

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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

I got that email too...for My Sturgis Bullet. 

Then an email saying it was a mistake. 


Sad panda.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

NicoleB said:


> I got that email too...for My Sturgis Bullet.
> 
> Then an email saying it was a mistake.
> 
> Sad panda.


Well, that sucks.

But........Yeah for Lurch's!


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

FYI: fb4 pro arrived today..... with Avid brakes, not Shimano. Interested to see what other surprises are in the giant box once we fully unpack.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Well...that sucks too. Unless they upgraded you to the Guides, then it might be OK. Still, I'll never run Avid hydro's again.


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## treym563 (Jul 24, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> Well...that sucks too. Unless they upgraded you to the Guides, then it might be OK. Still, I'll never run Avid hydro's again.


From the pictures of the grey FB4 they posted, it looks like Avid hydraulics.


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

Ok, I went and looked one more time, and in BD's defense, the tiny print above the drop down window that lists the improvements/changes for 2015 does say the following:
Brakes: Avid DB3 hydraulic disc with 160mm rotors
Levers: Avid DB3


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

ups updated again to tomorrow! so tomorrow we can all see what the pearl white looks like lol


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## draco_m (Oct 13, 2013)

The Lurch frame looks a lot like a Surly frame. Are they build in the same factory to the same specs?


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I think they have different offsets so I doubt they are the same frame. Coming from the same factory? Maybe.. Same standards? Maybe.

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## Ckbrin (Jun 19, 2014)

rex615 said:


> We should have an answer when *Ckbrin *gets us some dimensions.


I measured the rims. Front=95mm, back=75mm.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Ckbrin said:


> I measured the rims. Front=95mm, back=75mm.


Thanks a lot *Ckbrin*, for taking the trouble to do that.

There you go *finsterlee*, the rims are different sizes.


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## froggy2288 (Jan 25, 2010)

*Moto vs. Surly*



draco_m said:


> The Lurch frame looks a lot like a Surly frame. Are they build in the same factory to the same specs?


Looking at the geo and the design I think they are nearly identical except the head tube. Since they are both made in Taiwan with 4130 I am not surprised if made side by side.


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## Zebinheimer (Aug 15, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> ups updated again to tomorrow! so tomorrow we can all see what the pearl white looks like lol


Did you order a boris or? Because from the sound of it we have the same order/tracking info. My boris is pearl white, also stuck in parsippany since 3am and also just updated from tuesday arrival to tomorrow arrival. Lol


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## Ckbrin (Jun 19, 2014)

rex615 said:


> Thanks a lot *Ckbrin*, for taking the trouble to do that.
> 
> There you go *finsterlee*, the rims are different sizes.


So what do these measurements mean? The tires that come on the bike are both 4 inches. Does this mean that the front tires are more upgradable than the rear? What are the largest tires any FB4 owner has mounted on their bike?


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

*orange x7 pictures including fork.*

Hello,
Here are some pics of the 21 Boris x7. Nice fork. Only one tiny scratch where the rear quick release was locked and was hitting the frame.
On the x7 rear derailleur the cable lock screw was almost stripped. Will contact service about that. 
Otherwise, very happy and love






























the color.
Scott


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Zebinheimer said:


> Did you order a boris or? Because from the sound of it we have the same order/tracking info. My boris is pearl white, also stuck in parsippany since 3am and also just updated from tuesday arrival to tomorrow arrival. Lol


Yeah 17" white Boris going to long island.. I hope I'm home when it comes cause I have to be out from 230-330, and they won't say what time... Otherwise I'm getting it Tuesday blah

It left at 1032pm so... Just gotta wait tomorrow

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## Ralph (Aug 22, 2014)

pxpaulx said:


> M
> 
> There was a post on the bikes direct Facebook page a week or so ago that the lurch were slightly delayed but might start shipping at the end of this week if they arrive at their warehouse, otherwise they thought next week they would arrive.


Received an email today from BD regarding the Lurch shipment. They did arrive and plan on sending them out tomorrow. UPS ground 5 - 7 day delivery.


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Check your original email verification (when you first placed your order), which will have a tracking number that will be used. Use that to track the package. 

I got the same email a couple weeks ago and never got a confirmation that it was shipped. I was about to call BD when I remembered the tracking number they assigned when I first placed the order. When I checked it, the UPS website said it was enroute and will be delivered tomorrow.


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## Ralph (Aug 22, 2014)

Bearhunter said:


> Check your original email verification (when you first placed your order), which will have a tracking number that will be used. Use that to track the package.
> 
> I got the same email a couple weeks ago and never got a confirmation that it was shipped. I was about to call BD when I remembered the tracking number they assigned when I first placed the order. When I checked it, the UPS website said it was enroute and will be delivered tomorrow.


Thanks!!!


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

Ckbrin said:


> So what do these measurements mean? The tires that come on the bike are both 4 inches. Does this mean that the front tires are more upgradable than the rear? What are the largest tires any FB4 owner has mounted on their bike?


Yes, thanks so much for measuring! I have read everything from a larger wheel up front helps compact the snow for the back wheel to go over easier, to it absorbs more shocks going over rough terrain. There is a thread and pics in here somewhere about an FB4 comp being able to run Surly Bud 4.8 tires, but in the back you have to shave the nubs off on the chain side. Please don't quote me on that, however....I have searched a few times and haven't been able to find the thread. Hopefully someone can chime in.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Ckbrin said:


> So what do these measurements mean? The tires that come on the bike are both 4 inches. Does this mean that the front tires are more upgradable than the rear? What are the largest tires any FB4 owner has mounted on their bike?


 A tire will have a different profile depending on what rim size it is mounted. So that will mean that the front tire will be a little wider on the front rim. That is actually a good thing for some conditions like snow.

As to upgrading to a larger tire, it is not the rim size that will limit that as much as the clearance on the frame and fork.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Pearl white Boris! About to take it out.. Just got it an hour ago lol









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## treym563 (Jul 24, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> Pearl white Boris! About to take it out.. Just got it an hour ago lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That might be the coolest looking of the bunch...Really diggin' that white. The more I see the Boris the more I like it.

edit: wording


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

don't take it out too long without sunscreen! I have read that that's how they make the burnt orange...


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

treym563 said:


> That might be the coolest looking of the bunch...Really diggin' that white. The more I see the Boris the more I like it.


I think they look better in the smaller sizes, like this one. The curve of the tubes is just more elegant and there is no separation of the top and down tubes at the headtube.


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## draco_m (Oct 13, 2013)

Sorry for a newb question I'm just so excited. I thought fat bikes were $2k. If I can get one for under a thousand that changes everything! So the Boris is aluminum and the Lurch is chro-mo. Price difference is $100. I don't know which is better. Thoughts on Boris vs Lurch?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Y'all are killin' me (in a good way ) with these pics of new bikes.

Desperately awaiting for the arrival of my Night Train...it's not even September and it won't be here until late October :cryin:

Please keep the pics coming...action shots are better...so I can live vicariously though everyone until mine gets here :madman:


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I ordered blue cables... Should have ordered 2 sets lol

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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

draco_m said:


> Sorry for a newb question I'm just so excited. I thought fat bikes were $2k. If I can get one for under a thousand that changes everything! So the Boris is aluminum and the Lurch is chro-mo. Price difference is $100. I don't know which is better. Thoughts on Boris vs Lurch?


If you don't have a strong preference for steel over aluminum..... the Boris is a bit lighter.

The Lurch has wider hubs and will take bigger tires. Arguably it comes with better, lighter tires.

The Lurch also has a bigger Q factor is that matters to you.

On the Boris X9, the rest of the components are almost identical.
You can get the Boris in X5 and X7 kit for less money.

I chose a Lurch because it is steel and I like the looks of it better and it comes in a size 22. I would probably been happy with a Boris and had in fact chosen one until i saw the Lurch..


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

OnThaCouch said:


> Y'all are killin' me (in a good way ) with these pics of new bikes.
> 
> Desperately awaiting for the arrival of my Night Train...it's not even September and it won't be here until late October :cryin:
> 
> Please keep the pics coming...action shots are better...so I can live vicariously though everyone until mine gets here :madman:


Exactly! I am seriously considering getting a Boris to ride now and sell in November when my Sturgis gets here...


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

better shot of fork and clearance for larger tire. Shot of head tube "bluto" capable.
Shot of side with orange cables.
Srry about sideways..can't seem to get them uploaded as they were taken.
Enjoy,
scott


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## spovegas (Oct 2, 2009)

I got a call from BD about half an hour ago. They said they had inventoried the container of Lurches and had come up one short on 20" gray lurches, and that since I was the last to have ordered one, they didn't have the bike I had ordered, but would I be willing to take a 20" black. I said sure, send me the black one. They said they would try to get it out today.

I'm a little disappointed that I'm not getting the color I want, but it's not that big of a deal in the long run. I'm way more encouraged by the good customer service and personal communication from BD. Way to go, guys. :thumbsup:


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I just did a little ride near a bmx track by my house.. Definitely want to ditch the brakes. The front disc came totally messed up, warped to the point that it can't be trued.. But whatever. I emailed them about it. Otherwise there's one small paint blemish. I'm waiting on a 40mm stem and I'm gonna get some riser bars and I should be good. What kind of tubes are you guys running? I'm going to drill out the presta for shreader valves because I have them. And while I do that I'm going to do some blue plaid duct tape on the rim strips. 

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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

Brassos, did you put the raceface sticker on there?


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## draco_m (Oct 13, 2013)

Oh man, when I hear about people getting brakes with warped discs it makes me think that BD might not be the way for me to go. Love the prices but I'm not very mechanical so I need to be realistic about whether this is the route for me.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

A disc is like 10 bucks on ebay... Not a big deal 

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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

draco_m said:


> Oh man, when I hear about people getting brakes with warped discs it makes me think that BD might not be the way for me to go. Love the prices but I'm not very mechanical so I need to be realistic about whether this is the route for me.


You're always going to have a problem or 2 in a shipment of a couple of hundred bikes, and usually they're that ones that get net time. We have 2 Boris X9s that didn't have a problem with the brakes, nor anything aside from a derailleur adjustment on one. Looks like BD gets right on the problems anyway and makes good without having to go back through the shop who may have to go back through the manufacturer. The bike is solid. Bikesdirect service is solid. The price is half, and to me, that makes a BD purchase a no brainer.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I'm completely satisfied with my purchase.. Bent disc or not. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not even complaining. I know they will make it right, I've dealt with them plenty of times through other people who I recommend to them and put their bikes together. They're a solid company with great customer service. To spend double or triple at the risk of a bent disc is kinda silly lol

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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Avid HS1 discs are $7.99 a pair on Amazon, shipping included. I have bought four sets in the past couple months... Probably better discs than what come on the bikes to begin with.  Work great with my Shimano brakes.


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## jimmac23 (Oct 27, 2013)

Google "warped bike rotors". Not an uncommon problem and an easy fix.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

draco_m said:


> Oh man, when I hear about people getting brakes with warped discs it makes me think that BD might not be the way for me to go. Love the prices but I'm not very mechanical so I need to be realistic about whether this is the route for me.





jimmac23 said:


> Google "warped bike rotors". Not an uncommon problem and an easy fix.


This. I would say however that a mail order bike probably isn't for you if such things are a concern. The name brand bikes that show up at an LBS have the same issues, they just get sorted out by a mechanic before it gets to you. That's part of the reason why these are cheaper. If you aren't ready to take on the following tasks, I'd think hard about going mail order:
- Bike fitting, such as different length stems, seatpost set back, seat height etc.
- Derailleur hanger alignment
- Derailleur adjustment
- Brake adjustment and bleeding
- Headset adjustment
- Minor wheel truing

All of these things are simple to do if you have any mechanical aptitude. There are countless written and video instructions online to help as well.


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## spovegas (Oct 2, 2009)

I haven't received an email yet, but I did go look at the tracking number that was sent with BD's original order confirmation email and it shows that it's on it's way. Lurches are shipping. :band:


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## jimmac23 (Oct 27, 2013)

Mine shipped as well.
Scheduled for delivery Thursday...can't wait to get my hands on it!!!!!!


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Just put the yellow rim strips in to go with the blue.. I was surprised it came with 2 sets that's pretty cool










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## draco_m (Oct 13, 2013)

car_nut said:


> This. I would say however that a mail order bike probably isn't for you if such things are a concern. The name brand bikes that show up at an LBS have the same issues, they just get sorted out by a mechanic before it gets to you. That's part of the reason why these are cheaper. If you aren't ready to take on the following tasks, I'd think hard about going mail order:
> - Bike fitting, such as different length stems, seatpost set back, seat height etc.
> - Derailleur hanger alignment
> - Derailleur adjustment
> ...


Thank you for that feedback. That's the sort of information I am looking for. I've never purchased a bicycle not fully assembled so I'm simply trying to get more information so I can make the choice that is best for me.

I have a neighbor with pretty extensive bicycle skills. He's friendly and has offered to help me with various bike-related projects. He also has all the tools needed to do things like wheel truing. So I need to check with him and ask him if he is willing/able to help me get a BD bicycle set up.

When I initially heard about a bent disc I thought to myself, "Geez, what else will be wrong with this bike?" But if this is indeed a pretty simple correction of a common problem then I can put it into perspective better. I will tell you one thing - I do NOT have $2,000 to spend on a fat bike. So at this point its either a BD fatbike for $899 or I just keep having fun on the (non fatbike) I already own.

Thank you for the feedback. It helps me in my decision process.


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

Yep, it came with the bash guard. 36t 104bcd. fit perfectly.
have this on the way next:Niner YAWYD Top Cap > Components > Headsets and Spacers > Headsets | Jenson USA


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Does anyone have closeup pics of the Lurch drop outs and chainstay to BB welds?

If I wanted a Lurch with a Bluto, is that a no go or is it just not available yet?

In terms of frame design, quality of welding, material, etc... which is the best made frame?


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Its hard to tell weld quality by how they look with paint on them. The welds on my boris aren't perfect, but neither is my trek. But welding has more to do with heat than it does looks. A sloppy weld can be very structurally sound, and a perfect looking weld can be junk too. Unless you strip the paint and see the actual metal it's hard to say if the welds are good or not. 

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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

spovegas said:


> I got a call from BD about half an hour ago. They said they had inventoried the container of Lurches and had come up one short on 20" gray lurches, and that since I was the last to have ordered one, they didn't have the bike I had ordered, but would I be willing to take a 20" black. I said sure, send me the black one. They said they would try to get it out today.
> 
> I'm a little disappointed that I'm not getting the color I want, but it's not that big of a deal in the long run. I'm way more encouraged by the good customer service and personal communication from BD. Way to go, guys. :thumbsup:


Interesting. I canceled my 20 " Grey 4 days ago. Glad they still had you covered


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

Hey guys need your help. I just received my daughters Boris X-7 today.

There are two metal washers and one plastic washer that came in a plastic bag. Can anyone tell me what these are for? I remember someone asking the same question several months ago and I can't find the answer to save my life. Thank you.


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## spovegas (Oct 2, 2009)

rjedoaks said:


> Interesting. I canceled my 20 " Grey 4 days ago. Glad they still had you covered


Wow, that's pretty crazy. Must be a ton of shuffling of orders - I'll bet BD is a pretty hoppin' scene when those containers hit the warehouse.

Being a little flexible is a good thing when dealing with high-volume, high-demand, low-priced bikes, me thinks. Just glad I've got one coming my way.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Bearhunter said:


> Hey guys need your help. I just received my daughters Boris X-7 today.
> 
> There are two metal washers and one plastic washer that came in a plastic bag. Can anyone tell me what these are for? I remember someone asking the same question several months ago and I can't find the answer to save my life. Thank you.


Can we get something next to them for size comparison, like a coin or a tape rule.

Those look like they would go on a quill type headset, but the Boris has threadless, so....


----------



## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

rex615 said:


> Can we get something next to them for size comparison, like a coin or a tape rule.
> 
> Those look like they would go on a quill type headset, but the Boris has threadless, so....


Thanks Rex. I started a thread here with reference pics. I figure it would be easier to find in case others run into the same thing.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=928448


----------



## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

My Lurch has shipped too! Supposed to arrive here by Thursday. :thumbsup:


----------



## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

I did get everything on and adjusted aside for the mystery plastic washer. 

I must say I am VERY impressed with the quality of the Boris X-7. I might have to steal some rides from my daughter. Awesome bike.


----------



## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Since the Lurches are now shipping, is it time to start the the official Lurch thread?

The Boris Report is an excellent name.

we need a good one too.

Any suggestions??

I think something like "The Lurch Log" or "The Lurch Ledger" but maybe someone can come up with something better.


----------



## MIKE157 (Nov 30, 2008)

How about Lurch, you rang ?


----------



## gjbiker (Oct 21, 2007)

Lurch Lounge?


----------



## jimmac23 (Oct 27, 2013)

How about "You Rang" 

If you've never seen the Addams Family that will go right over your head!


----------



## jimmac23 (Oct 27, 2013)

Great minds think alike MIKE157


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

"You rang" is clever. Probably a good name for a bike, but might be confusing as a thread name for some looking for info on the Lurch.

I am really liking the Lurch Lounge. Something fun about alliterations.



gjbiker said:


> Lurch Lounge?


----------



## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

I had to add a washer to the front fork to prevent brake rub which was very common in the first batch



Bearhunter said:


> Hey guys need your help. I just received my daughters Boris X-7 today.
> 
> There are two metal washers and one plastic washer that came in a plastic bag. Can anyone tell me what these are for? I remember someone asking the same question several months ago and I can't find the answer to save my life. Thank you.


----------



## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

that is gorgeous....I may need to get my Boris painted this winter!



ou2mame said:


> Pearl white Boris! About to take it out.. Just got it an hour ago lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

donn12 said:


> I had to add a washer to the front fork to prevent brake rub which was very common in the first batch


Interesting thanks for the reply Don. Now that you mention it, I do remember that conversation somewhere in this thread. I was however able to adjust the brakes with no rub.

That plastic washer still has me stumped.


----------



## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Yeah I just didn't use it.. I was gonna email them but decided I didn't care lol 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> Yeah I just didn't use it.. I was gonna email them but decided I didn't care lol
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


Ha at least I'm not alone then


----------



## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I actually glanced at the instructions I felt like I was losing my manhood so I threw them in the box 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## Bearhunter (Mar 5, 2014)

I put it in a plastic baggie along with the reflectors. lol


----------



## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I was more worried about preserving the zip ties than what to do with a plastic washer lol

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## froggy2288 (Jan 25, 2010)

Destr0 said:


> Avid HS1 discs are $7.99 a pair on Amazon, shipping included. I have bought four sets in the past couple months... Probably better discs than what come on the bikes to begin with.  Work great with my Shimano brakes.


Do they seem like counterfeit ones? My friend from China buys lots of parts at home and brings em here and said the HS1 is usually fake from China. I guess stamped steel is stamped steel tho.


----------



## froggy2288 (Jan 25, 2010)

Bearhunter said:


> Hey guys need your help. I just received my daughters Boris X-7 today.
> 
> There are two metal washers and one plastic washer that came in a plastic bag. Can anyone tell me what these are for? I remember someone asking the same question several months ago and I can't find the answer to save my life. Thank you.


metal ones for the pedals?


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## spovegas (Oct 2, 2009)

rex615 said:


> Since the Lurches are now shipping, is it time to start the the official Lurch thread?
> 
> The Boris Report is an excellent name.
> 
> ...


'Lurch Lounge' is a pretty awesome suggestion. I'm throwing in 'Lurch Lurkers', for consideration, but I think 'Lurch Lounge' nails it. Whatever it is, it definitely should have "Lurch" in the title, IMO, for search purposes.

Adams Family references are lame, IMO. Let's get our a$$es current and not exclude age groups here.

Rex, you've been super involved in this thread with respect to lurches - you know the game, we're looking to you to pull the trigger on a new thread. It'll stick or it won't. Go for it!


----------



## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

spovegas said:


> 'Lurch Lounge' is a pretty awesome suggestion. I'm throwing in 'Lurch Lurkers', for consideration, but I think 'Lurch Lounge' nails it. Whatever it is, it definitely should have "Lurch" in the title, IMO, for search purposes.
> 
> Adams Family references are lame, IMO. Let's get our a$$es current and not exclude age groups here.
> 
> Rex, you've been super involved in this thread with respect to lurches - you know the game, we're looking to you to pull the trigger on a new thread. It'll stick or it won't. Go for it!


Thanks.

It is done.


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## GrandmaRedlocks (Aug 30, 2014)

Weeee I'm so excited! I ordered a pearl white X5 this morning, sight unseen (couldn't find pix of it anywhere) and then reading through all this wonderful Boris bike porn/ I mean info here I come across your pix!!! Thank you thank you! You made my day! I can't wait for this beauty to arrive next week!!!


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Its so beautiful lol.. I didn't know what it would look like but when I opened the box I was like wow that's ****ing nice 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## jimmac23 (Oct 27, 2013)

ou2mame said:


> Just put the yellow rim strips in to go with the blue.. I was surprised it came with 2 sets that's pretty cool
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi ou2mame,

Bike looks great, I like the blue accents, blue rim strips would look awesome.
I'm really curious about your tires?????

Jim

Never mind, i see that those are the stock tires.


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Honestly I didn't care for the looks of this bike till I seen the White.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Yeah I really wanted the green gravity, but then I saw the Boris on there. I thought the blue was too dark and I'm not a fan of silver, but white was an option so I bit I'm really glad I did. I probably would have gone for the green fantom but the drivetrain needs immediate replacement which is a waste of money. I'm pretty happy with the boris. I beat the **** out if it today, literally. I was going downhill on the shoulder of a dirt road that leads to the beach, covered in 5" rocks and ruts, seeing how it handles.. It was great. 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## rdub315 (Apr 14, 2014)

Need more color selections on the Sturgis Bullet and Night Train Bullet.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

rdub315 said:


> Need more color selections on the Sturgis Bullet and Night Train Bullet.


Agreed. Let's talk colors....I've got a Sturgis Bullet red flake on order, but the pics of the white bikes I'm seeing posted almost make me want to switch to white. I just wish the red didn't have the flake in it, don't want it to look like a low rider. Wish the Sturgis Bullet could come in orange like the regular Sturgis and Fatboy.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

While Im waiting for the Night-Train to ship...future of fatbikes looks promising






not sure of the color selection


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

hartzpad said:


> Agreed. Let's talk colors....I've got a Sturgis Bullet red flake on order, but the pics of the white bikes I'm seeing posted almost make me want to switch to white. I just wish the red didn't have the flake in it, don't want it to look like a low rider. Wish the Sturgis Bullet could come in orange like the regular Sturgis and Fatboy.


I'm loving my burnt orange Boris (it is damn close to red in person), if the red Sturgis is anything close I don't think you'll be disappointed!


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Agreed +1

I originally ordered the Nighttrain Bullet in matte black but wasn't overly excited with the madd maxx look. So I changed to the Non-Bluto Nighttrain in glossy jet black and have ordered and received my Bluto for $487 shipped. Not the most cost effective option but now I will have both forks for summer/winter riding


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Where did you get the bluto? 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> Where did you get the bluto?
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


Rockshox Bluto RL - Solo Air 26" MaxleLite 15 | Merlin Cycles


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

skywardx said:


> While Im waiting for the Night-Train to ship...future of fatbikes looks promising
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great find.

Clever work-around to avoid a massive Q factor using friction drive.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

They're out of stock! Is anyone else putting one out this season? 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

skywardx said:


> Rockshox Bluto RL - Solo Air 26" MaxleLite 15 | Merlin Cycles


 RS8790002 Rockshox Bluto RL - Solo Air 26" MaxleLite 15 120mm 541.32 
Extra 10% off Rockshox this Bank Holiday Weekend ($541.32 @ 10%) -54.13

Total $; 487.19 Shipped


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> They're out of stock! Is anyone else putting one out this season?
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


Sorry bout that...didn't go to the site to see current stock...had both when I ordered mine...ordered on Tuesday received Friday...Dam fast from UK


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## Greg_o (Mar 22, 2012)

Any Canadians place an order? I'm looking at US address forwarders, I can see what it costs to sign up but not sure what they will charge to ship from the US to my Canadian address.

Or could anyone tell me the approximate weight and dimensions of the box they received, maybe with that I could get a freight quote.

thanks all


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## wrightcs77 (Oct 6, 2008)

OK. I decided on a Lurch. I just need to decide on size. I am 6' 1", but have long upper torso and arms. I wear long tall shirts, as large is to short and xl is too wide. My pants are 32" inseam. I have rode large Proflex 957 for 12 years (stolen), large Kona ht, large Specialized FSR Expert. 

I would assume a 20". 

Opinions?

This will be my only bike. Mainly used for towing kids in Burley and fun. Rare trail use. Lots of winter use.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Whatever you decide you better hurry. Most are sold out. 20" black is about all that's left 


Pedaling


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Look up the geo for a bike that fits you and compare it to the bike you want to buy to give yourself a decent idea of what you're buying. 

I compared the 15 and 17 frames I was looking at and they had minimal differences so I went with the 17 because it was closer to my current bike.. A half inch longer top tube but I planned on a 40mm stem and I use a 60 on my current, so that takes care of that. It fits perfect.

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## GrandmaRedlocks (Aug 30, 2014)

Color (pearl white) was a definite deciding factor for me, as was geometry ... 
Standover was very important to me; at 5'4" with a 28" inseam a 15" Boris with a 26.2 standover and a 23" tt should be a very good fit. Very close to my Juliana.
I originally wanted an orange X7 in a 15" but in the 48 hours I spent analyzing my options they sold out of the orange. Not a fan of the other X7 colors so I decided on the white X5 figuring I'd be upgrading parts over time anyway.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Yeah! White is awesome. I wish they did the white in the x7 I would have gotten that, but I'm kinda glad I stayed with the 9 speed anyways because now my other bike will provide hand me down upgrades when I upgrade that one. So it all works out. 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## wrightcs77 (Oct 6, 2008)

Ordered the only 20" they had in stock. Not the color option I wanted, but a first fat bike is better than no fat bike!

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


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## GrandmaRedlocks (Aug 30, 2014)

Ou2mame, with your recent delivery of an X5, did you have any quality issues the earlier Boris' had (rear brake alignment, warped brake disc or bent derailer)?


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

My front disc was pretty much touching the spokes but I bent it out enough to ride. They will send me another one I'm sure. The rear is fine. I could put another rotor on but I'm lazy.. Its good enough until they get back to me. 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## oldbear52 (Jul 6, 2014)

Got my Gravity Bullseye Monsater July 6th. after spending a half hour assembling it and adjusting the brakes I took it for a spin around the block. It works great. My rotor are true and the gearing is great.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

oldbear52 said:


> Got my Gravity Bullseye Monsater July 6th. after spending a half hour assembling it and adjusting the brakes I took it for a spin around the block. It works great. My rotor are true and the gearing is great.


Glad to hear it old bear!


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

Great pump deal! I got one of these today:
Spin Doctor Rescue HV Mini Pump - Inflation on Sale Save Up to $30 Off
$16.99 after extra 20% off lowest price..
Should be available tomorrow as well.


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## misstelecaster12000 (Aug 26, 2014)

I'm so happy!! I will be able to have my motobecane fatbike!!! My friend who lives in Washington DC accepted to buy the bike for me!! Now I must be patient!!! Maybe it's the first Motobecane Fatbike which comes in France!!!


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Oh that's awesome.. That's a pretty nice friend lol

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

misstelecaster12000 said:


> I'm so happy!! I will be able to have my motobecane fatbike!!! My friend who lives in Washington DC accepted to buy the bike for me!! Now I must be patient!!! Maybe it's the first Motobecane Fatbike which comes in France!!!


Congratulations on you persistence.

What would you call a fatbike in French? Vélo a pneu gros?


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Can anyone confirm if the crankset on the Sturgis/Night-Train is a 104 BCD?


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

rex615 said:


> What would you call a fatbike in French?


américain vélo 

:drumroll:


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

car_nut said:


> américain vélo
> 
> :drumroll:


Sounds legit.


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

misstelecaster12000 said:


> I'm so happy!! I will be able to have my motobecane fatbike!!! My friend who lives in Washington DC accepted to buy the bike for me!! Now I must be patient!!! Maybe it's the first Motobecane Fatbike which comes in France!!!


You probably wont be the only one since motobecane originated from France.


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## AdventureRider (Jul 17, 2014)

Lurch is almost sold out. Hurry!!!!!!


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

AdventureRider said:


> You probably wont be the only one since motobecane originated from France.


Actually the Salamandre Fatbike is made in France.

And the "new" Bikes Direct Motobecane is about as French as......I don't know, Kimchi.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Motobecane made bikes for 60 years in France


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

And then they went bankrupt and some dude bought a their name and slapped it on Chinese frames. 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

rjedoaks said:


> Motobecane made bikes for 60 years in France


True, but they never made fatbikes.

Anyway, Bikes Direct merely purchased the Motobecane name (same as Mercier) but there is no connection to the old company and they are certainly no longer manufactured in France.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I have no problem rocking their name but I'd pull it off if it wasn't clear coated cause it means absolutely nothing to me. At 33, the only motobecanes I ever rode were probably junk bikes we ghost rode into walls and canals as children

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> And then they went bankrupt and some dude bought a their name and slapped it on Chinese frames.
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


I'm amazed they can sell bikes as cheap as they do - I mean, all the major bike manufacturers already had their name to slap on the Chinese frames, so you'd think they'd be cheaper! Meanwhile Bikes Direct had to both pay for a name AND the frames to slap the name on


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Because they aren't makers up 35-50% in an lbs

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Hey Rex, since you have been appointed Lurch ambassador , trying different rubber will be part of your duties so everyone knows what fits. :thumbsup:


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

rjedoaks said:


> Hey Rex, since you have been appointed Lurch ambassador , trying different rubber will be part of your duties so everyone knows what fits. :thumbsup:


Sure, I already have a new set of tires ordered, unfortunately they are actually a bit smaller than the OEM rubber.

Can't wait for the new Schwalbe tires to become available, those sound sweet.


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## gjbiker (Oct 21, 2007)

ou2mame said:


> And then they went bankrupt and some dude bought a their name and slapped it on Chinese frames.
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


What company today doesn't slap it's sticker on a Chinese frame? Surly you can name one.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

gjbiker said:


> What company today doesn't slap it's sticker on a Chinese frame?* Surly *you can name one.


I see what you did there


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I wanna ride my boris tomorrow but my sisters ****ing dog ripped my finger nail off.










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## gjbiker (Oct 21, 2007)

I wonder how BD decides what name to call a bike? Where did Gravity come from? 

I bought my first BD bike 4 years ago, a titanium 29r that is an excellent bike. Btw I am waiting for a Night Train Bullet and I hope it meets the same standards as my Ti. I will be crushed if BD comes out with a Ti fatty.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

gjbiker said:


> I wonder how BD decides what name to call a bike? Where did Gravity come from?
> 
> I bought my first BD bike 4 years ago, a titanium 29r that is an excellent bike. Btw I am waiting for a Night Train Bullet and I hope it meets the same standards as my Ti. I will be crushed if BD comes out with a Ti fatty.


No idea where gravity came from, but recycling names like 'fantom' is a way they are saving money by not having to buy more trademarks. 
Now, I think the way that they have been naming the new bikes is beautiful. They are all spinoffs of the brand name that they resemble. The lurch is a better pugsly, and both members of the Adams family. The fat boy and night train are similar, and both models offered by Harley Davidson. Sturgis is also the name of a town that holds a huge Harley festival. And boris and borealis are just a little too similar to be coincide.


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## treym563 (Jul 24, 2014)

rjedoaks said:


> Hey Rex, since you have been appointed Lurch ambassador , trying different rubber will be part of your duties so everyone knows what fits. :thumbsup:


I ordered the snowshoe Xl's so I can throw up some pics of those on a Lurch.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Wanna shove them on a Boris and see if they fit? Lol

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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> Wanna shove them on a Boris and see if they fit? Lol
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


I'm strongly considering it already!


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

Please do...lol


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

http://biciak.blogspot.com/2014/08/pugsley-to-9zero7-upgrade-part-2-vee.html?m=1

So apparently they fit in the 907

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## SeaHag (Jul 14, 2011)

Has anyone received their Lurch yet? I got the email last week that the boat was in port and they were unloading the bikes with plans to start shipping last Friday [8-28-14]. I know with the holiday weekend it wasn't going to come today; but they haven't sent any shipping confirmation and I haven't received anything from UPS either.

Just wondering if they'd ship them and not send out the confirmation emails???


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> biciak: Pugsley to 9Zero7 upgrade part 2: Vee Rubber Snowshoe XL 4.8 arrives!
> 
> So apparently they fit in the 907
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


I expect they will. I measured my front vee8 at 97mm inflated to about 12psi. The reviews out there say the snowshoe xl is 112mm on I think an 80mm rim. At least up front I can easily see more than 7.5mm space on either side of the wheel in the fork. The back night be a different story though, only going to buy one tire initially.


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## StuntmanMike (Jul 2, 2012)

I almost bout a Spesh Fatboy on sale for $1600 2 weeks ago. Doing research and seeing these stopped me. 

I really think I want the Sturgis Bullet, I think the suspension will make it a more versatile bike that I'll be more likely to ride year round. 

Anyone order one yet?

The Lurch looks really cool too.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I have been thinking that by next season I will have a bluto on my boris if they fit lol

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> I have been thinking that by next season I will have a bluto on my boris if they fit lol
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


A Blutoed Boris is set to release in November.


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

I'm going to hold out and wait for this.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

SeaHag said:


> Has anyone received their Lurch yet? I got the email last week that the boat was in port and they were unloading the bikes with plans to start shipping last Friday [8-28-14]. I know with the holiday weekend it wasn't going to come today; but they haven't sent any shipping confirmation and I haven't received anything from UPS either.
> 
> Just wondering if they'd ship them and not send out the confirmation emails???


Short answer; yes

You should have received an email with a tracking number when you placed your order. If you check that number it will show when it shipped and when it is scheduled to arrive.

If you look over on the Lurch Lounge thread it has been discussed ad nauseam.

And yes that was a shameless plug for the Lurch Lounge thread.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

StuntmanMike said:


> I almost bout a Spesh Fatboy on sale for $1600 2 weeks ago. Doing research and seeing these stopped me.
> 
> I really think I want the Sturgis Bullet, I think the suspension will make it a more versatile bike that I'll be more likely to ride year round.
> 
> ...


I ordered the Night Train Bullet. Received an email a little while back that delivery (originally scheduled for 18th-ish of Oct) may be pushed back a couple of weeks.

Really excited to get my hands on it. I ordered the NT w/Bluto for the specs compared to the other BD offerings and whatever else was out there.

I wanted the hydro brakes and the thru-axles with the wider spacing. The closer the possible delivery date gets, the more excruiciating the wait becomes (first-world relatively speaking).


----------



## GrandmaRedlocks (Aug 30, 2014)

Yipee!!! Got my tracking number for Grannies Boris this morning!!! WhooHoo!
Phew. That was one long weekend! Note to self next time, (and others), when ordering online from a company that works M-F; order the bike before they close for a three day holiday weekend ... Not the Saturday morning after ... Makes for one painfully long wait for an order confirmation and tracking number!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Just dropped the coin, $899 an 18" Yellow Lurch, what a deal 

What swayed me toward the lurch:

Shorter Chainstays: 447 vs 460 on aluminum frames
Better Colors: I like the Yellow 
Brakes: I wanted mechanicals
Sliding Dropouts: Easier to run SS or Internal Hub

I'll probably get a Bluto over time, but this will work for now.

What I want now is to get a second wheel, IG Hub and 4" tires.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

bcriverjunky said:


> I'm going to hold out and wait for this.
> View attachment 920222


nice! where did you find that? any more info where the photo came from?


----------



## rdub315 (Apr 14, 2014)

^^^ that bike looks all sorts of wonky


----------



## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

^^^^^^^^^^^agreed^^^^^^^^^^^^.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

Dirtdawg thats from their Facebook page.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> Just dropped the coin, $899 an 18" Yellow Lurch, what a deal
> 
> What swayed me toward the lurch:
> 
> ...


Congrats and be sure to post a pic over on the Lurch Lounge when you get it.

You can get an IGH for 190mm spacing?


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Anyone know if the Boris freehub is serviceable/upgradeable? 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## Tunalic (Feb 13, 2012)

rex615 said:


> Congrats and be sure to post a pic over on the Lurch Lounge when you get it.
> 
> You can get an IGH for 190mm spacing?


There is none for 190 & the only 170mm is the Rohloff 14 XL which still hasn't been released for sale yet.


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## boogman (May 21, 2012)

ou2mame said:


> I wanna ride my boris tomorrow but my sisters ****ing dog ripped my finger nail off.
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


Wtf dude? OT as hell and you post a close up of your bloody nail that no one cares to see?


----------



## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Tunalic said:


> There is none for 190 & the only 170mm is the Rohloff 14 XL which still hasn't been released for sale yet.


Rohloff is very nice, but it likely cost twice as much as the Lurch.


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

That Gravity with the Bluto looks weirdly disproportional.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Nail Every Trail said:


> That Gravity with the Bluto looks weirdly disproportional.


I am no bicycle builder/engineer but it looks a bit "off" to me as well.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

The frame looks way too high in the front.. Could be cause it's a smaller frame? The small Boris frame looks disproportionate too

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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yeah, I just realized that there is nothing for a 150mm spacing, but I can probably fabricate 1/4" spacers, esp. if I can get a built Nu Vinci wheel cheap  

It's pretty exciting to get an inexpensive fatty without having to wait, free shipping too, just got my tracking number, already changed the pick up to a local CS Center for no additional cost.

I'm thinking we'll do a ride this weekend 

So, has anyone tried to fit a Bluto to the Lurch? 

2mm is not much, it makes me wonder if a different lower race or even a different headset would be enough. I suppose shaving down the lockout lever or removing it could also work. I'm not that concerned with hitting the down tube as any dual crown fork has that problem. I wonder if tire clearance would also be an issue??


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Nobody's got a Lurch yet - they should start hitting the ground today and tomorrow. An external lower headset cup or angled headset should provide all the clearance needed to fit a Bluto to a Lurch.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yeah, I just realized that there is nothing for a *150mm spacing*, but I can probably fabricate 1/4" spacers, esp. if I can get a built Nu Vinci wheel cheap


The rear spacing on a Lurch is 190mm.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Ohhh, I thought the Lurch was already out there...sorry, I'm a little late to the party 

Based on Geometry, the Lurch looks to be the most playful (for a fat bike).


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

The Boris is playful lol

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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Aww crap, 190mm, I was thinking it was narrower, hmmm, now that's a lot of spacers 

Oh well, it'd probably suck anyhow 

I still want to try a NuVinci on my mountain tandem!


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> Aww crap, 190mm, I was thinking it was narrower, hmmm, now that's a lot of spacers
> 
> Oh well, it'd probably suck anyhow
> 
> I still want to try a NuVinci on my mountain tandem!


I think a NuVinchi would be awesome on a Fatike and they are a lot cheaper than the Rolhoff.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

*please...stop it.*



ou2mame said:


> The Boris is playful lol
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


A Call to End the Use of ?Lol? | Thought Catalog


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

The lol means that something is meant in jest, because through text it's nearly impossible to insinuate inflection.. There's also the jk, or a smiley face as alternatives but they all lead to the same conclusion. Without it, people would just be stating facts because thats what pure text implies, and a lot of the time we speak on more levels than just sharing facts. 

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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> A Call to End the Use of ?Lol? | Thought Catalog


lol, good article.

just kidding let me do that correctly

lvml, good article


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Lvnl I don't even know what Lvnl is 

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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> Lvnl I don't even know what Lvnl is
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


My post wast meant "tongue in cheek"

The article proposes using lvml instead of lol. Which is very unlikely to happen, ever.

lol is still useful and widely used, who cares if it is in fact overused.

Oh, according to the article lvml means "literally vocalized my laughter"

pretty lame IMO


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I read a few pieces of it but I'm on my phone and long articles while trying to get work done aren't easy..... Lol

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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> >snip<...... *Lol*


:thumbsup:


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## homeslice (Jun 3, 2008)

bcriverjunky said:


> I'm going to hold out and wait for this.
> View attachment 920222


Funny is the fork more expensive than the whole bike?


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I hope suntour comes up with an epicon fat version and the Chinese versions are 200 bucks by winter

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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

ou2mame said:


> I hope suntour comes up with an epicon fat version and the Chinese versions are 200 bucks by winter
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


i hope that X-fusion starts making a fat fork with 34mm stanchions and the price of fat suspension forks comes down.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Xfusion would be cool too... I wonder how actively they are working on them 

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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I actually think the Bluto is fairly priced considering other fat prices.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Compared to fat bikes sure.. But fat bikes are overpriced too. 2k for a rigid bike? They're cool and all, but that's crazy. 2k gets you an fs with some goodies in normal bike land. 

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## GrandmaRedlocks (Aug 30, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> The Boris is playful lol
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


Keep em coming! I'm living vicariously through your joyful posts until my Boris arrives Monday ...


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I just rerouted the mess of cables that the Boris loves so much. Much neater now.. It was bothering me.










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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> I just rerouted the mess of cables that the Boris loves so much. Much neater now.. It was bothering me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice - I'm going to do the same when my new handlebars come on saturday. Installed the Hussefelt 40mm stem last night and like the shorter stem a lot - just need a bit of a rise and I'll be good!

Curious, those tires on the X5 were one of the biggest reasons I steered clear of it over the x7 (I like the vee8s, will get something chunkier for the winter but they are a nice rolling tire otherwise). Will you be replacing the tires on the x5 anytime soon? how are they for self steer?


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## GrandmaRedlocks (Aug 30, 2014)

Ohh just Beautiful!!!


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

The tires aren't too bad.. Self steer I only had once at a lower psi, on a straight path doing about 25mph so not too bad. On the beach they were great, I haven't taken it out anywhere technical because I'm waiting for my missing fingernail to heal up a bit more before I put pressure on my hands like that. I'll definitely be on a ss trail by next week. But yeah they aren't bad. I planned on some floaters anyways and I really wanted the Pearl white so I didn't care about the tires but I'm gonna keep them, they aren't horrible or anything. 

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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

Dang that looks painful!!!



ou2mame said:


> I wanna ride my boris tomorrow but my sisters ****ing dog ripped my finger nail off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Yeah its getting better.. I can only really do light trails cause I can't grip well.. I'm hoping tomorrow it'll be good enough. I'm using some antibiotic stuff from England that's banned here and its healing like crazy 

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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

ou2mame said:


> Compared to fat bikes sure.. But fat bikes are overpriced too. 2k for a rigid bike? They're cool and all, but that's crazy. 2k gets you an fs with some goodies in normal bike land.


Agreed on the overall price of fatbikes is stupid, but $550 for a fork is not that bad. I was looking at a fork for my 29er last summer and the big boys' forks were north of $900. Ok, the Bluto is not a super high tech fork, but still...


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

*To FatBike or Not To FatBike*

Until yesterday I didn't even know Bikes Direct was in the fatbike market...

So it looks to me like the Sturgis Bullet is about the most economical way to get into a front-suspenion fatbike...

With that in mind, mine won't be ridden on snowmobile trails or sandy beaches. Here's a couple photos of what I typically ride in Arizona. Good place for a fat bike? A lot of places I ride my motorized dirt bike in Arizona have sections of sandy washes where a typical 2.3" MTB tire would be an epic fail (for me, anyways. lol) Seems like the fat bike would make riding an even more diverse genre of terrain a real possibility...rider skill notwithstanding. :lol:

Sure, a cross-bike could ride this...



But here...fatter tire=more fun?



​
I should clarify, I am not an 'expert' at riding the above rocky trail, but I enjoy the challenge.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yes, a fat bike will roll over that junk like a tank. 

Of course it will also ride uphill like a tank, it's the pros and cons of fat


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## 0uTkAsT (Aug 28, 2014)

I got my Gravity Deadeye SS from BD this week and couldn't get the brakes adjusted properly myself, I had constant rubbing or extremely weak/unresponsive brakes, there was no in-between. I took it in to a LBS and they found that the adapter plate on the front was installed wrong and and cross-threaded at the factory which was causing my issues. The front wheel also needed trued and the spokes needed adjustment. They went over everything else and had it back to me in great shape with a new adapter plate for $65 including the parts and tax which I thought was fair. 

I emailed BD about the front brake later and they immediately refunded me $50 of the $65 I paid for the service/repair without so much as a quibble, so not only did they pay for the defective part but also the vast majority of the labor for the whole tune-up. I'm pleased with the bike, the price, the customer service, and they shipped it very quickly too. 

No pics worth sharing yet, but I just took it out for the first real ride yesterday afternoon with the 22T gear installed and did a 3.5 mile run through a muni park with lots of steep hills and some manmade irrigation rock gardens. The bike was smooth and quiet and was easier than expected to pedal uphill, although I quickly realized I need to get in better shape before hitting any real trails with the SS.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

Jisch said:


> Agreed on the overall price of fatbikes is stupid, but $550 for a fork is not that bad. I was looking at a fork for my 29er last summer and the big boys' forks were north of $900. Ok, the Bluto is not a super high tech fork, but still...


where are you finding it for $550? because youre right, that is a bit more reasonable. MSRP is $711 and even at jenson it's still $650. the bluto is a basic solo air shock, pretty much just a reba, but a little wider. the reba can be had for under $300 (RockShox Reba RL 120 Solo Air Tapered Forks 2013 | JE James Cycles). where is the other $400 going? that's a lot even for a fat tax. machining a slightly wider crown and cross-member is not going to be significantly more expensive. i think about $450 would be fair. 
if BD can sell them on the bullet models for $300 each and still turn a profit, i dont think that that a $450 MSRP would be unreasonable.
just my 2 cents, the market will mature significantly before i'm ready to make any more fat related purchases anyway.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Universal cycles: $643 x .85 (15% off coupon) = $545. Jenson would probably pricematch that.


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yes, a fat bike will roll over that junk like a tank.
> 
> Of course it will also ride uphill like a tank, it's the pros and cons of fat


Ya- the weights guys are quoting on some of the babies is disconcerting at times. lol


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Seems like a good price for a tire upgrade on Snowshoe 4.7. Not sure why the stock Sturgis and Night Train is coming with a 4.5, unless it's a misprint.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=291234093126


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

siv said:


> Seems like a good price for a tire upgrade on Snowshoe 4.7. Not sure why the stock Sturgis and Night Train is coming with a 4.5, unless it's a misprint.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=291234093126


You can get the snow shoe xl from ae bikes for just a few bucks more, they are a true 4.7, the original snowshoes are closer to 4 inch tires.


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## cgcharlie (Feb 5, 2004)

That trail looks familiar. Guys I know in AZ that ride Fat Bikes love them. They got me looking!


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

That's a small section of trail on the bike trails at Casa Grande Mountain, just south of Casa Grande. But you could replace Casa Grande Mountain with _________ at about 9,000 other locations in Arizona and have the same rockfest. lol

The BikesDirect stuff sure looks tempting. I admit to being a bit of a Specialized junkie, (just had good luck with their bikes and a good bike shop) but when you can pay $2,700.00+ for a fat bike (FatBoy) and still have a QR axle...I don't get it.

Plenty of fat bikes rolling around on QR axles...just not at that price! I think this thread has probably sold a lot of Motobecane-branded bikes!


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## cgcharlie (Feb 5, 2004)

Been riding CG Mountain for 15 years so it was easy to tell the area. I got eyes on that Fat Boy at the local shop but will wait a bit before deciding. A heads up for you, Round Trip is getting a Fat Boy with the Bluto and it's planned to be a Demo.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

siv said:


> Seems like a good price for a tire upgrade on Snowshoe 4.7. Not sure why the stock Sturgis and Night Train is coming with a 4.5, unless it's a misprint.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=291234093126


Those are the tires they come with. They were relabeled this year to be less "optimistic" with the introduction of the XL.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> where are you finding it for $550? because youre right, that is a bit more reasonable. MSRP is $711 and even at jenson it's still $650. the bluto is a basic solo air shock, pretty much just a reba, but a little wider. the reba can be had for under $300 (RockShox Reba RL 120 Solo Air Tapered Forks 2013 | JE James Cycles). where is the other $400 going? that's a lot even for a fat tax. machining a slightly wider crown and cross-member is not going to be significantly more expensive. i think about $450 would be fair.
> if BD can sell them on the bullet models for $300 each and still turn a profit, i dont think that that a $450 MSRP would be unreasonable.
> just my 2 cents, the market will mature significantly before i'm ready to make any more fat related purchases anyway.


What you are missing is that Fatbikes are still a niche market, whereas they probably make tens of thousands of REBA forks at a time. Higher production = bigger economies of scale = lower prices


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

cgcharlie said:


> Been riding CG Mountain for 15 years so it was easy to tell the area. I got eyes on that Fat Boy at the local shop but will wait a bit before deciding. A heads up for you, Round Trip is getting a Fat Boy with the Bluto and it's planned to be a Demo.


Oh boy...:thumbsup:


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Out of curiosity, I looked up both of the geo charts for the fatboy pro and the night train bullet. Not really a fair comparison, since the pro costs almost three times as much.

The numbers are remarkably close. In my size, which is xl, both bikes have the same head tube angle and seat tube angle. The stays on the night train are 5 millimeters longer. The bottom bracket is 4 millimeters higher. The wheel base is 16 millimeters longer. Those numbers suggest to me that the top tube and front center on the night train will be slightly longer than the fatboy. It should be slightly harder to lift the front end, due to the longer stays and the higher bottom bracket. I find it interesting, given those numbers, that the night train it's spec'd with a 120 millimeter stem versus 70 millimeters on the fatboy. I think that a stem transplant is in order when my new bike arrives.

Given the very positive reviews of the fatboy, and it's ride characteristics, I think we can infer a similar riding experience from the night train, and the night train bullet.

I should note that for that extra few thousand dollars, you do get a snazzy yellow paint job, slightly better tires, and a lighter 1x drivetrain. 

I'm pretty excited for the new bike, but thankfully I've got two weeks of vacation at the start of October, which will take my mind off of the wait.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I can wheelie the Boris forever. I don't know how the geo compared to their other bikes but it's definitely a fun bike to fling around.

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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> where are you finding it for $550? because youre right, that is a bit more reasonable. MSRP is $711 and even at jenson it's still $650. the bluto is a basic solo air shock, pretty much just a reba, but a little wider. the reba can be had for under $300 (RockShox Reba RL 120 Solo Air Tapered Forks 2013 | JE James Cycles). where is the other $400 going? that's a lot even for a fat tax. machining a slightly wider crown and cross-member is not going to be significantly more expensive. i think about $450 would be fair.
> if BD can sell them on the bullet models for $300 each and still turn a profit, i dont think that that a $450 MSRP would be unreasonable.
> just my 2 cents, the market will mature significantly before i'm ready to make any more fat related purchases anyway.


Bike24 has the bluto for around that price

RockShox Bluto RL Solo Air Fatbike Fork 100mm Tapered Maxle Lite 2015 - black €336.05 + €19.95 shipping = ~US$460
RockShox Bluto RL Solo Air PushLoc Fatbike Fork 120mm Tapered Maxle Lite 2015 - black €386.47 + €19.95 shipping = ~US$525

If you are seeing a price ~ 20% higher it is because it includes VAT - once you change your country to outside the US the website deducts the VAT


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> I can wheelie the Boris forever. I don't know how the geo compared to their other bikes but it's definitely a fun bike to fling around.


I am not very good at wheelies, but since I got my Fatbike (two days ago) I have noticed I can wheelie it much more easily than any other bike I have owned.

I believe the big front tire, adds "reverse pendulum" effect and the big contact patch of the rear tire give increased lateral stability. This must make fatbikes easier to wheelie or at least they inspire more confidence and allow you to push the envelope a bit.

Anyone else find their Fatbike is easier to wheelie?


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## GrandmaRedlocks (Aug 30, 2014)

GrandmaRedlocks said:


> Yipee!!! Got my tracking number for Grannies Boris this morning!!! WhooHoo!
> Phew. That was one long weekend! Note to self next time, (and others), when ordering online from a company that works M-F; order the bike before they close for a three day holiday weekend ... Not the Saturday morning after ... Makes for one painfully long wait for an order confirmation and tracking number!


Update! My Boris arrived in Portland today, scheduled for delivery tomorrow morning ... 4 business days - but 9 actual days after I ordered it counting Labor Day and weekends! 
Talk about a date making me wait!!! But based on the feedback I've been following and pix I've been seeing, he'll be worth the wait.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Anyone have any pics of a motobike that is white with white decals? I am considering this color combo for the sturgis bullit but there are no pictures. I'm wondering how difficult it will be to make out the decals. Thanks.



GrandmaRedlocks said:


> Update! My Boris arrived in Portland today, scheduled for delivery tomorrow morning ... 4 business days - but 9 actual days after I ordered it counting Labor Day and weekends!
> Talk about a date making me wait!!! But based on the feedback I've been following and pix I've been seeing, he'll be worth the wait.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I would like to remove them, but why make them white? 

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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

That is a great question. I'm not sure why that is the case but that is what bikes direct told me. White frame with white decals


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## drmayer (Apr 19, 2007)

I'm considering a Sturgis Bullet - but want to have a rigid fork for winter riding and keep the bluto for the summer months. It's a much better deal to buy the Bullet so i get the bluto than the other way around, but a rigid fork with a 150mm thru axle is rare right now.

Looking at the ice cream truck - it looks to have a 150mm thru axle, so i'm hoping their fork would work (assuming they sell it separately, which they usually do).

any other rigid fork options out there?


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

drmayer said:


> any other rigid fork options out there?


Framed Bikes has you covered.

Carbon fork:
Alaskan Carbon Fork | Framed Bikes

The Minnesota 3.0 Bluto comes with a rigid fork in the box:
Framed Minnesota 3.0 Fat Bike Black/Red w/ Rockshox Bluto 100mm 2015


> Version two comes standard with an alloy rigid fork AND the RockShox Bluto fork,


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

I'm going to email BikesDirect and change my order from a Small to Medium NightTrain.

I'm 5'9" with a 29-30" inseam and have had a lot of trouble deciding, with a lot of posts in this thread speculating. I just happened to come across a Specialized demo tent with a Fatboy Pro (which has a Bluto!). They had a Medium and a Large available. The Large, which I thought I would have to demo, actually felt not bad. Once I finally got on the Medium, it felt pretty much perfect, and I didn't feel like I needed a shorter top tube (though standover didn't have tons of clearance). I spoke with the Specialized rep at length, and he said over and over he would "definitely" put me on a Medium over the Small if I was buying one.

It was a blast to ride, the Bluto was great, I got really muddy. What a great chance to ride the bike the NightTrain is modeled after. I hope it comes close. For a moment I considered just buying the Fatboy Pro... but then found out it has a $4200 MSRP. It does have better components, including a dropper post, but seriously, it is nearly triple the price.



rex615 said:


> Anyone else find their Fatbike is easier to wheelie?


Absolutely. Mountain bikes are way easier to wheelie than road bikes, because of the tall, wide bars and position of the saddle over the rear axle, but the large and soft contact patch of a fatbike makes balance even easier. It is a little bit of extra weight to pop up initially (compared to a normal hardtail) but not a huge problem.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

AndrewZorn said:


> Absolutely. Mountain bikes are way easier to wheelie than road bikes, because of the tall, wide bars and position of the saddle over the rear axle, but the large and soft contact patch of a fatbike makes balance even easier. It is a little bit of extra weight to pop up initially (compared to a normal hardtail) but not a huge problem.


Thanks, confirms my theory. Now I just need to practice.


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## BigVaz (Feb 19, 2010)

Sorry for not sifting through the millions of posts, but...

Is the Sturgis & Night Train the same frame???


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

BigVaz said:


> Sorry for not sifting through the millions of posts, but...
> 
> Is the Sturgis & Night Train the same frame???


Yes.


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## BigVaz (Feb 19, 2010)

OnThaCouch said:


> Yes.


Gracias.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

BigVaz said:


> Gracias.


De nada!


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

OnThaCouch said:


> De nada!


I love when ya'll speak French.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

rex615 said:


> I love when ya'll speak French.


Um...dude, that was totally in a British accent :ihih:


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

rex615 said:


> I am not very good at wheelies, but since I got my Fatbike (two days ago) I have noticed I can wheelie it much more easily than any other bike I have owned.
> 
> I believe the big front tire, adds "reverse pendulum" effect and the big contact patch of the rear tire give increased lateral stability. This must make fatbikes easier to wheelie or at least they inspire more confidence and allow you to push the envelope a bit.
> 
> Anyone else find their Fatbike is easier to wheelie?


I can still do wheelies all day on the fatbike (gravity bullseye monster), but it's a lot harder than on my ibis mojo or most other 26" bikes i own. the front end is substantially heavier and the rear tire has so much contact patch that steering becomes very difficult (unless aired up)


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

dirtdawg21892 said:


> I can still do wheelies all day on the fatbike (gravity bullseye monster), but it's a lot harder than on my ibis mojo or most other 26" bikes i own. the front end is substantially heavier and the rear tire has so much contact patch that steering becomes very difficult (unless aired up)


This is interesting because my admittedly limited experience points to those two same things as beneficial. The heavier front end adds stability and the "difficult steering" from the big contact patch may be acting as a sort of damper to my uncoordinated movements.

It is perhaps because I am much lower on the learning curve than you that these "crutches" seem helpful. Or maybe it is just a placebo effect for me. This thing wheelies more like a motorcycle than like a bicycle, and I have always found bicycles harder to wheelie. ( I am referring to balance point wheelies, not power wheelies.)

Thanks for your input.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Did anyone else get an early shipping confirmation for their order for the Night Train Bullet?

I got this today at 11:57am with a tracking #:

Shipping
Shipped on 9/8/2014 using UPS Ground: 1ZT3519T4294756***
Your bike/s will be shipped via UPS and will arrive in 3 to 7 business days.
It may take up to 48 hours to show a pick up scan and movement in the UPS system.
To change delivery address or delivery date AND UPS.com shows a pick up scan, use this link Click HERE

Is this just an order confirmation (already got one) or a real shipping confirm? I will need to call them asap!


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Did anyone else get an early shipping confirmation for their order for the Night Train Bullet?
> 
> I got this today at 11:57am with a tracking #:
> 
> ...


I haven't gotten anything NEW in my email. Just the original message that came through when I originally placed my order.

Agreed with the idea that if some movement shows, please let the rest of us know.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Did anyone else get an early shipping confirmation for their order for the Night Train Bullet?
> 
> I got this today at 11:57am with a tracking #:
> 
> ...





OnThaCouch said:


> I haven't gotten anything in my email. Just the original message that came through when I originally placed mh order.


This is the original message everyone is getting, word for word, unless yours really did ship 6 weeks early (after just getting delayed recently) -- highly doubt it. Not sure why you got another, though. Check the tracking number and if it's moving, then yeah, definitely come tell us...


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## no sweat (Aug 21, 2014)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Did anyone else get an early shipping confirmation for their order for the Night Train Bullet?


You need to (re)read the yellow box on the Night Train Bullet Page. Especially the part that says

"The email contains a tracking number which will NOT show movement until the ship date in the pull down menu".

Cheers.


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## Ohfugit (Jul 10, 2009)

Yep except 9/5



NH Mtbiker said:


> Did anyone else get an early shipping confirmation for their order for the Night Train Bullet?
> 
> Shipping
> Shipped on 9/8/2014 using UPS Ground: 1ZT3519T4294756***
> ...


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## doctor_spaceman (Sep 6, 2014)

I finally just bit the bullet. Paid for me preorder of the Sturgis Bullet. they were out of Lurch Bikes in my size so I said f-ck it ill get the bike I really wanted in the first place. ill have to wait either way!! wish I could fast forward and then go back in time to ride all summer... oh well I have all winter to shred!


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

doctor_spaceman said:


> I finally just bit the bullet. Paid for me preorder of the Sturgis Bullet. they were out of Lurch Bikes in my size so I said f-ck it ill get the bike I really wanted in the first place. ill have to wait either way!! wish I could fast forward and then go back in time to ride all summer... oh well I have all winter to shred!


I actually wanted the Sturgis but after the delay I went for a boris, it's a nice bike but wish I held out, so I'm thinking of giving it to me nephew and ordering a Sturgis once there available.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I have a trip to Northern Wisconsin coming up and I am tempted to order an X5 Boris to ride, but the wife would kill me. I already have a bucksaw frame and the Sturgis Bullet ordered, and a large pile of parts in boxes waiting for them both...


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## Psf (Apr 13, 2013)

Anyone know if a pugsley rear wheel will for a fb4 comp?


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## cleopatra999 (May 9, 2012)

Have done a bit of prowling here, but can't commit to reading all 130 pages. 

Can anyone tell me if the Boris x7 is going to be okay for a first time fat bike rider (in snow), other option is going up to the Norco Bigfoot 6.3. Yes I have looked at all other brands, both new and used. Looking for something with shorter standover height. My concern with the Boris is weight, I have to be able to lift it onto my Northshore rack. I am not convinced there will be a weight difference between the bigfoot and boris anyway. TIA


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## 0uTkAsT (Aug 28, 2014)




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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

cleopatra999 said:


> Have done a bit of prowling here, but can't commit to reading all 130 pages.
> 
> Can anyone tell me if the Boris x7 is going to be okay for a first time fat bike rider (in snow), other option is going up to the Norco Bigfoot 6.3. Yes I have looked at all other brands, both new and used. Looking for something with shorter standover height. My concern with the Boris is weight, I have to be able to lift it onto my Northshore rack. I am not convinced there will be a weight difference between the bigfoot and boris anyway. TIA


Maybe someone in Canada can comment on its snow capabilities.. But I'm assuming that since it's a fat bike, with proper tires and an able bodied rider, it should move in the snow. I guess the same goes for picking it up.

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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

I wonder if Bikes Direct will be able to offer a version of the Diamant Mammut F4 fat bike? That bike looks great. I like the drilled wide rims ( 103mm) and it's listed at weighing about 25-26 pounds.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Nail Every Trail said:


> I wonder if Bikes Direct will be able to offer a version of the Diamant Mammut F4 fat bike? That bike looks great. I like the drilled wide rims ( 103mm) and it's listed at weighing about 25-26 pounds.


Isn't that kinda what the Fantom FB4 Elite is minus the 103mm rims?

It doesn't seem the industry is going to 103mm rims on assymetrical (offset) frames with 135mm hubs. Seems to make more sense to put the super wide rims on a frame that will clear a full fat tire, and that typically means a 190mm rear hub.

To me, that weight seems very optimistic for that bike based on its components.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

0uTkAsT said:


>


If were posting muddy pictures...


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## oldbear52 (Jul 6, 2014)

Love the pictures. I want to post a couple from my phone but it won't let me get instagram. I haven't been as brave as you young bucks in pulling wheelies. Haven't popped one since 95. dirtdawg: I hope that all is well with you and that you are shredding up the trails with your Monster.:thumbsup: I am plannimg to put some 120tpi missions on mine to see if theres any difference.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I use Tapatalk, it hosts them for you 

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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Just pre ordered a Sturgis Bullet in White!


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Sweet! 

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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

The F4 is the Mammut Bike. At least in the original release they were identical. They are both a design called "Big Bob" that a third party, a designer named Bob, did.


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## Psf (Apr 13, 2013)

FoafInTX said:


> The F4 is the Mammut Bike. At least in the original release they were identical. They are both a design called "Big Bob" that a third party, a designer named Bob, did.


Happen to know if the offset in the same as the pugsley in the rear?


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Got my FB4 Pro outfitted with some super fat Bud and Lou..and it's starting to change seasons. Bring on the snow. I can't wait. I had a total blast last winter with the stock Vee Rubber Missions. I can only imagine with these burley Surley tires.


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## BigVaz (Feb 19, 2010)

There was a guy last weekend on a fb4 pro w/ Bud & Lou racing the wors pro-elite class... Was killing it too.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I got a Lurch with the 4.8 tires and they are a tad big for all around (not snow) riding. Since we're still a few months off from snow season, does anyone have a couple "skinny tires" they want to sell? 

Over the Winter I want to build a set of narrower three season wheels for running 3-4" tires. Is there a low cost rim and hub option that isn't Surly and Hope? I'm thinking 50-60mm, 150/190 spacing.


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Really Joe? The Bud and Lou fit huh? Interesting. I have an ornage FB4 Comp ( love the looks and colorway) that I've totally upgraded ( drivetrain, cockpit, On One Floaters, Brakes) and threw some 100m rims on the front, left 80mm on rear. I was actually thinking of picking up a different frame if I couldn't fit some bigger tires. I was hoping some 45 North Dillinger 5 would fit the front and the Dillinger 4 in the back, for winter riding. Maybe I'll just keep the FB4, yay.

Got any pics or could you please take some of your bike with the Bud and Lou? Please.

I'm still not sure I'll need a tire bigger than 4 inches for the type of riding I'll mostly do. If there's pow on the ground I'm going to the mountain to snowboard. If the conditions suck at the mountain I'll come home and ride my fat bike.



JoeMountain said:


> Got my FB4 Pro outfitted with some super fat Bud and Lou..and it's starting to change seasons. Bring on the snow. I can't wait. I had a total blast last winter with the stock Vee Rubber Missions. I can only imagine with these burley Surley tires.


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## Greg_o (Mar 22, 2012)

Boris X7 trigger pulled. Now to get it to Canada..


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Nail Every Trail said:


> Really Joe? The Bud and Lou fit huh? Interesting. I have an ornage FB4 Comp ( love the looks and colorway) that I've totally upgraded ( drivetrain, cockpit, On One Floaters, Brakes) and threw some 100m rims on the front, left 80mm on rear. I was actually thinking of picking up a different frame if I couldn't fit some bigger tires. I was hoping some 45 North Dillinger 5 would fit the front and the Dillinger 4 in the back, for winter riding. Maybe I'll just keep the FB4, yay.
> 
> Got any pics or could you please take some of your bike with the Bud and Lou? Please.
> 
> I'm still not sure I'll need a tire bigger than 4 inches for the type of riding I'll mostly do. If there's pow on the ground I'm going to the mountain to snowboard. If the conditions suck at the mountain I'll come home and ride my fat bike.


Here ya go. The front is no biggie. Fits with room to spare. The back is going to rub a tiny bit with the chain in granny gear on smallest chain ring but I ride in that gear so seldom that it's not a problem. Just deep nasty snow for short stints, or a steep hill. The rear clears the frame with little room but I've ridden it and it's not a problem for me. I bought this bike for one reason only. It's a snow bike. It collects dust any other time of year. It is a GREAT snow bike and with these tires it will kill it. I can't wait. I need the fattest tires I can get for snow riding so for me the Bud and Lou were a no brainer.

Just a few blocks from my home is a big river parkway that has about 16 miles of forest trails that are hiked and biked all winter long by fat bikers so they are basically groomed. Not all of them are well packed so many times I have to blaze trails and the fat tires are the only way to get through those. Just a pass or two through and you have it paved.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

oldbear52 said:


> Love the pictures. I want to post a couple from my phone but it won't let me get instagram. I haven't been as brave as you young bucks in pulling wheelies. Haven't popped one since 95. dirtdawg: I hope that all is well with you and that you are shredding up the trails with your Monster.:thumbsup: I am plannimg to put some 120tpi missions on mine to see if theres any difference.


Thanks man!
i'm indeed doing well, and riding as much as i can between school and work.
let us know about the 120 missions, i think the stock 72's do pretty well for my general mtb needs, and i got a set of 120 floaters for when the snow flies :thumbsup:


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> I got a Lurch with the 4.8 tires and they are a tad big for all around (not snow) riding. Since we're still a few months off from snow season, does anyone have a couple "skinny tires" they want to sell?
> 
> Over the Winter I want to build a set of narrower three season wheels for running 3-4" tires. Is there a low cost rim and hub option that isn't Surly and Hope? I'm thinking 50-60mm, 150/190 spacing.


have you checked out http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/sarma-hubs-930224.html they have an i9 system with 120poe for under $200 shipped. sounds like there still pretty new so i havent heard any long term reviews yet, but im thinking about getting myself a 170.


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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

JoeMountain, thanks for the images of the FB4 with the HUGE tires on it. Looking good. If those are 4.8 in the back, I guess I should be able to run something a bit smaller more comfortably on mine. So maybe my plan of Dillinger 5/4 combo will work after all. Good to know.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> I got a Lurch with the 4.8 tires and they are a tad big for all around (not snow) riding. Since we're still a few months off from snow season, does anyone have a couple "skinny tires" they want to sell?
> 
> Over the Winter I want to build a set of narrower three season wheels for running 3-4" tires. Is there a low cost rim and hub option that isn't Surly and Hope? I'm thinking 50-60mm, 150/190 spacing.


The Sarma hubs look good - I ordered a set of Origin8 hubs in 170 rear and 150 front and am going with 47mm rims for my 3 season fat bike (Bucksaw). Here is a link to my wheel build thread:

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/budget-wheel-build-thoughts-opinions-929288.html

My Origin8 hubs are backordered, if they don't ship in the next 3 weeks I may cancel the order and go with the Sarma hubs. The Sarma are a bit more expensive but probably (???) better hubs. I have not pulled the trigger on the rims yet because I cannot decide on a color - if I do black wheels then I will get the Try-all rims and if I do red then I will go with the Neon rims.
So many options on tires and so many different prices : Cheap tires I am thinking the On-One Floaters or just spend the $$$ and get a pair of Nates.

Cheers!


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

Nail Every Trail said:


> JoeMountain, thanks for the images of the FB4 with the HUGE tires on it. Looking good. If those are 4.8 in the back, I guess I should be able to run something a bit smaller more comfortably on mine. So maybe my plan of Dillinger 5/4 combo will work after all. Good to know.


yea thanks
JoeMountain...any chance you can get some shots around the chain and around the bb? I am thinking about this setup for the winter...I love the 3.7 knards on the FB4 for the summer. The 27tpi setup tubless own rocky trails.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

MUSTCLIME said:


> yea thanks
> JoeMountain...any chance you can get some shots around the chain and around the bb? I am thinking about this setup for the winter...I love the 3.7 knards on the FB4 for the summer. The 27tpi setup tubless own rocky trails.


Sure I can. Later tonight maybe. I'm sure a real bike mech would say they're to big for the back. But as I said it's a snow bike and the advantage of these tires will far outweigh the minor chain rub. Or knobs bumping the frame in a turn. Keeping the chain off the small ring 99% of the time works for me . The slight rub in a turn is a don't care for me. It's a snow beast.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

JoeMountain said:


> Sure I can. Later tonight maybe. I'm sure a real bike mech would say they're to big for the back. But as I said it's a snow bike and the advantage of these tires will far outweigh the minor chain rub. Or knobs bumping the frame in a turn. Keeping the chain off the small ring 99% of the time works for me . The slight rub in a turn is a don't care for me. It's a snow beast.


You could probably trim the side knobs down a bit and get rid of the rub if it ever starts to bug you.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Destr0 said:


> You could probably trim the side knobs down a bit and get rid of the rub if it ever starts to bug you.


Yep thought about that but didn't want to cut the tires. We'll see how it goes. I think it'll be fine. You'll here back from me when the snow falls.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Thank you BikesDirect! received my Boris X5 last week, assembled with new tires, brakes, and saddle. rode it twice and had a problem with the rear hub. after having it checked out at a local bike shop I e-mailed them explaining the problem and they got back to me the same day. they are sending me a new rear wheel and shipped it the same day! Great customer service! very happy with my experience. thanks BD

here's some pics of it in Indigo Blue with yellow rim strips (for now)

View attachment 922942
View attachment 922943
View attachment 922944
View attachment 922945
View attachment 922946
View attachment 922947


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Nice bike! I love mine. What was wrong with your hub? 

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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

Well I'll be damned if that indigo blue isn't way better looking in actual photos than it does in their site, very nice! Might have saved myself a hundred bucks with that, oh well!


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Yeah it looks a lot better than how it looks on the website 

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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

freehub was grinding badly. and the color is great! although i think it has more purple in it in real life than shows in the photos.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Here are the pics. Hopefully the angles are good to see what you want to see.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

What tires are those? 

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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Surley tires. Bud front, Lou back. Just waiting for a blizzard.


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

JoeMountain said:


> Surley tires. Bud front, Lou back. Just waiting for a blizzard.


Looks like the Bud just barely fits. Any rubbing on the chain or chain stays? How about the front fork?


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

radnur22 said:


> Looks like the Bud just barely fits. Any rubbing on the chain or chain stays? How about the front fork?


Read back in the thread for details. It's all there.


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## makaman (Mar 9, 2012)

Thanks for the info and pictures Joe Mountain. Was planning on going bud/Lou but decided on snowshoe xl/bulldozer instead. Hoping these tires will be aggressive enough for the winter.


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## juicetifer (Mar 7, 2014)

BENKD29 said:


> Thank you BikesDirect! received my Boris X5 last week, assembled with new tires, brakes, and saddle.


What tires did you go with? I'm looking to change out the tires on my X7 and those look like they have more grip to offer.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I went with the origin Devist8ers and they provide great traction. I got them on sale 40 a tire at my lbs. They apparently have more kevlar than an Israeli vest. I'm curious what tires other people are running and what fits and what doesn't. 

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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

juicetifer said:


> What tires did you go with? I'm looking to change out the tires on my X7 and those look like they have more grip to offer.


On One floaters, i'm on a tight budget and they are way more aggressive which i wanted for the type of riding i do. I am going to put on a lefty fork next week and eventually plan to upgrade to a 100mm rim with a Surly Bud tire in front. i will keep the 4.0 inch in the rear. and of course both will be tubeless.


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## ride406 (Sep 13, 2014)

*I got my yellow Lurch!!!???
*
View attachment 923005

I know. Your confused, right? So am I. I've been lurking here for a while not really having anything to add I guess, but appreciating the great info and experience for making a decision. Many of your good experiences with the bikes and the customer service led me to "pull the trigger" as everyone likes to say. I sooooo badly wanted to be with you in this happy group. It snowed here in the mountains on Thur. I'm not happy.

So why the lurch? The derailleur cage on my other bike bouncing around on trails has been a peeve for years, so gears with the near quiet of a single speed. Must try the X9. First tick on my list. I would have much prefered the sweet alu frame of the night train but I hadn't saved that much, the date way off, and I preferred the bb7s. Win, win, win for the lurch and in yellow. I tried ordering an 18 in every color showing availability(first in yellow) over labor day weekend. Nothing. Sent email, told Tuesday "black and one yellow still available", tried calling, failed, but told that they would hold the yellow, called right back no answer left message that night I figured I better get something on the hook so a purple went thru called immediately. The next morning, no answer, an hour or so later the call from the message was returned and I was ASSURED that it was changed to yellow.
"Yellow" is on the receipt, and the packing slip... just not on the bike.
All I really wanted on the color was an apology.

Now for the real reason I decided to offer this up to the court of public opinion.
The reason I chose the lurch over others, the X9 rear derailleur, looks like it got mauled by a horny whale on the boat ride over here. It's not "just scratched". It looks peened, like it was hit with a hammer. The derailleur was pushed on somehow, to bend .25" 4130 steel. Read that carefully - it has implications. Either the steel is very mild, or the derailleur is most likely damaged significantly even if it looks like it's "just scratched". Now it may be that it would still function "correctly" for a while but how many miles did that take off of its life? The cage has more lateral play at the lower wheel than the old xtr on my other bike with thousands of miles on it. I'm simply unwilling to take that risk. Period. It costs $87 at the cheapest Internet shop I found. I should not have to accept the risk of having to replace that part prematurely. Especially when they can fix their problem at wholesale cost, and I cannot. Sorry Larry, I will not accept your turd over the fence. You're going to get it back.

This is going to turn out a novel. The frame. We've probably all bent our .125"ish steel dropouts and bent them back with channel locks. I have. But I've also seen them break, and it all started with the first bend. This risk I honestly don't mind taking. BUT, I WILL NOT AFTER PAYING YOU NINE HUNDRED DOLLARS, FRONT YOU THE MONEY, TO FIX YOUR BROKE A.. BIKE. Sorry, Larry in service at bikesdirect, that is UNACCEPTABLE. I got the feeling when I took the bike into my local shop to estimate the repair that he might be exaggerating some, based on the fact that he probably doesn't cherish the idea of fixing your s... right out of the box. Especially after I went to him first to see what he would sell me, and I couldn't afford a Muk yet. I know for a fact that in my dealings with him, he has always been more than fair - I have yet to experience that with you. If labor is less than his estimate, that's what you"ll pay. I desperately wanted to go in and champion the deal I got from you guys. Instead I had to go in with my tail between my legs. Thanks Larry. And instead of being a pissy d... to start off with, I thought my email was polite and I offered you a great opportunity for more good P.R. on how you handle someone else's mistake. All I received was minimization, and veiled condescension. I never even blamed you. It's obviously UPS's deal, unless the damage was done on the boat and you shipped it anyway. I've talked to UPS's customer service already. They've obviously looked up the word "service" in the dictionary. So Larry, in "SERVICE" at bikesdirect, I'll take the $20 for the pedals, the $50 that someone else got for the same scratches on the forks and the rim, a new in the box X9 clutch type derailleur (you are certainly welcome to send me a postage paid container to ship this one back if you want it on your bike), and whatever the bike shop wants to bend your frame back, BUT you can call him and pay for it yourself. Then I will keep your bike and be a happy customer. I told you I would be posting on the forum, I will also be doing a youtube review. Monday, I will have $70 posted to my account, a tracking number for the shipped derailleur in an email, and Chad will have an account # to bill. Otherwise the bike will be on a UPS truck on Tuesday and i will receive a full refund. I won't make the mistake of letting this go past seven days. I will gift you optimism, as I really hope this works out in everyone's best interest.

To everyone else that reads this, i apologize for feeling the need to make public something that i believe should have been handled already, in private. Going to go ride my other bike now, the giant Moto box staring at me has given me some extra energy to burn off.


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## ride406 (Sep 13, 2014)




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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I've read a few posts on here shipping damage and they seemed to take care of it. I've never seen someone get the wrong bike though that's a first. About the hanger, every bend weakens the metal. I would want some sort of compensation for the hanger coming in weaker than it should. But it's steel and I've had steel hangers and fixed them plenty of times, so it wouldnt be a deal breaker for me.

I had my friend order a gravity g1 and it came with a bent aluminum hanger so I bent it back cause the lbs didn't have any, but I told him to get a new one from bd because that aluminum is gonna tweak or break prematurely because of it.

My back wheel on my boris seems like the freehub is skipping teeth. Once or twice a ride. They offered to reimburse me for a freehub service, but i figured I would do it myself cause the lbs said it would take over a week. Anyways I took it apart and couldn't get the freehub off, brought it to the lbs and he said it needed a new hub. I emailed them back yesterday and will hear from Larry Monday I assume. From what I've read about their service I think they'll make it right, but we'll see. This is my first actual purchase of a bd bike but I've recommended and assembled a dozen or more for friends over the years because they are a great value, and this is my first real problem with a bike from them.

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## hykerwilson (Jan 19, 2014)

I too had some issues with a bike I ordered. However, moments after contacting bd by email, I heard back and was compensated. I actually ended up getting like $45 off a bike that they mistakenly already lowered the price by $50 on when I ordered it. So I got a $299 bike for $205. Sold off all the low end parts and basically got a nice frame for $50. I am absolutely satisfied with their customer service. Just ask nicely and usually you can come out on top. Sorry for you color discrepancy. that is odd. but the Purple (I mean grape) is nice...?


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## oldbear52 (Jul 6, 2014)

:thumbsup:I got my Gravity Bullseye Monster a little over two months ago and I love it. Maybe next winter I can order something a little more upscale with a bluto, like a moto sturgis. Gotta save for it or win big in the lottery. lol. By the way I lo9ve all the pics and hope to post one or two of my monster, as soon as I can get a cd made of my pics in the digital camera. PEACE:thumbsup:


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

You could put a bluto on your gravity! 

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## oldbear52 (Jul 6, 2014)

*Changing the fork.*

:madman: ou2mame, I am a blockhead! Of course I could add the Bluto. and then probably do some other upgades too. Like add a decent rack and better lights. I just wonder how much a Bluto woulkd change the HT angle. I just need to save my sheckles and pick one up in the winter.  Fred PEACE


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I don't know how it will affect the angle. But I'm leaning towards the bluto on my boris. I'm really hoping other companies start putting out fb forks though.. We need options. 

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## oldbear52 (Jul 6, 2014)

*Fat Bike Forks*

I agree that the bike suspension fork people need to make us some forks, Maybe then the competitions will cause forks to come a little cheaper. I wish someone could tell me where to pick a Bluto up for under 750. My gravity monster has a fairly plush ride and a Bluto would make it better. :thumbsup: PEACE. Fred


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I see them on ebay for under 750

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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

oldbear52 said:


> I agree that the bike suspension fork people need to make us some forks, Maybe then the competitions will cause forks to come a little cheaper. I wish someone could tell me where to pick a Bluto up for under 750. My gravity monster has a fairly plush ride and a Bluto would make it better. :thumbsup: PEACE. Fred


Amazon.com : RockShox Bluto Crown Adjust RL Solo Air Spring, 100mm, Black : Sports & Outdoors


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

If your bike is that messed up, tell them to send you another one. I don't see how writing a novel solves anything, nor does making ill will do anything positive to solve your dilemma. 

Fyi: I got the last yellow 18" over the labor day weekend 

I will admit that the packing leaves something to be desired. It behooves Motobecane to improve their packing since the bikes are getting an awful moved so many times. 

My bike was "checked through at least six locations before reaching me.

I installed a set of missions today, much more agile, going for a ride early tomorrow.

On th e tech side: the lower internal cup on the lurch is 56mm, so an external cup would add the necessary clearance for a Bluto, but such a cup appears to exist only in an Angleset. Next option is a thicker race or a spacer under the race.

The Lurch fork is 460mm from axle center to the race seat. Any thoughts on which Bluto fork length would work best? I'm leaning toward an 80mm, but I'd prefer a 100 mm...


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## ride406 (Sep 13, 2014)

Hykerwilson makes a good point. Larry will you please fix the bike. I would like to ride it.


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## rschreck (Aug 11, 2014)

Wow. Bikes Direct is in Garland, TX? I live in Garland. Maybe I should pay them a visit.


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

oldbear52 said:


> I agree that the bike suspension fork people need to make us some forks, Maybe then the competitions will cause forks to come a little cheaper. I wish someone could tell me where to pick a Bluto up for under 750. My gravity monster has a fairly plush ride and a Bluto would make it better. :thumbsup: PEACE. Fred


Bike 24 has the bluto for well under 750

RockShox Bluto RL Solo Air Fatbike Fork 100mm Tapered Maxle Lite 2015 - black €336.05 + €19.95 shipping = ~US$460
RockShox Bluto RL Solo Air PushLoc Fatbike Fork 120mm Tapered Maxle Lite 2015 - black €386.47 + €19.95 shipping = ~US$525

If you are seeing a price ~ 20% higher it is because it includes VAT - once you change your country to outside the EU the website deducts the VAT


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

I also had a hard time deciding between a med or small, then decided over a month ago on a small so my wife can ride it. We both decided last week we should go to a medium (we're both about a 30" inseam).

So after about 2-3 months of trying to decide I'm finally going to put my order in for a NT Bullet. Too bad it doesn't come in glossy black or any other color .

BTW Andrew, thank for your post. Makes me feel better about my decision since we're about the same height and inseam.

Gary



AndrewZorn said:


> I'm going to email BikesDirect and change my order from a Small to Medium NightTrain.
> 
> I'm 5'9" with a 29-30" inseam and have had a lot of trouble deciding, with a lot of posts in this thread speculating. I just happened to come across a Specialized demo tent with a Fatboy Pro (which has a Bluto!). They had a Medium and a Large available. The Large, which I thought I would have to demo, actually felt not bad. Once I finally got on the Medium, it felt pretty much perfect, and I didn't feel like I needed a shorter top tube (though standover didn't have tons of clearance). I spoke with the Specialized rep at length, and he said over and over he would "definitely" put me on a Medium over the Small if I was buying one.
> 
> ...


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

ou2mame said:


> I don't know how it will affect the angle. But I'm leaning towards the bluto on my boris. I'm really hoping other companies start putting out fb forks though.. We need options.


Lefty! for me it's the best and only option. I'll have it on this week. will update then


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

I ordered a Night Train and am becoming a little concerned about the quality I'll see from some of these posts. I realize ya get what ya pay for but they (BD) said these will be some of the nicest frames on the market.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I don't know how many they have sold.. But I haven't seen many problems. You think other companies don't have problems? My truvativ cranks were machined without the threads for a thread puller, and my sram cranks were made without pedal threads lol.. Everyone screws up sometimes

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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Fair enough.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

The cranks are basically the same crank that comes on the Fat Boy. There have been some that failed in FB land also. ItS a price point being met, but not a reason to not buy a bike. Ride it till it needs to be replaced, that might be days or years. 


Pedaling


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

:eekster:


siv said:


> I ordered a Night Train and am becoming a little concerned about the quality I'll see from some of these posts. I realize ya get what ya pay for but they (BD) said these will be some of the nicest frames on the market.


+1:skep:


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## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

skywardx said:


> :eekster:
> 
> +1:skep:


there are 133 pages of people that are mostly thrilled with their new fat bike from bikes direct. I think there are about 5 that are not happy right now. most of the bikes are between 800-1000 that come via ups....if it has to be perfect go to a bike shop and pick it apart. you will pay more $ and that may be worth it to some people. For my fat bike it is not. I like my Boris so much I may buy another so I have a fat bike for the beach and all that entails as well as another for trails and snow.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Yeah I love my boris, I have had zero problems with it. 

I finally figured out you really need to be in the 8-9 lb psi range to have the most fun in the dirt, I was climbing hills today I have never been able to on my 29er.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

donn12 said:


> there are 133 pages of people that are mostly thrilled with their new fat bike from bikes direct. I think there are about 5 that are not happy right now. most of the bikes are between 800-1000 that come via ups....if it has to be perfect go to a bike shop and pick it apart. you will pay more $ and that may be worth it to some people. For my fat bike it is not. I like my Boris so much I may buy another so I have a fat bike for the beach and all that entails as well as another for trails and snow.


I hear ya, agree. Still, $1200 is $1200. I'm hoping I don't need to file stuff and get an LBS to fix things because mine won't work on that bike. I saw a Boris the over day, really nice. Was a matte black X7, not as heavy as I thought it'd be. That's what inreLly wanted but the thru axles on the Night Train sold me.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

siv said:


> I hear ya, agree. Still, $1200 is $1200. I'm hoping I don't need to file stuff and get an LBS to fix things because mine won't work on that bike. I saw a Boris the over day, really nice. Was a matte black X7, not as heavy as I thought it'd be. That's what inreLly wanted but the thru axles on the Night Train sold me.


As with all BD bikes, they're basically giving you the frame for free. If you really don't like it, buy another frame and hang all the components on it. You'll still break even. 
The Mayor, Specs & Build | RSD Bikes


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## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

I did take mine to the LBS - they adjusted the brakes and checked the headset (I didn't know if it was tight enough, it was) and I gave them $40. for me it was worth it for a professional once over.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

sml-2727 said:


> Yeah I love my boris, I have had zero problems with it.
> 
> I finally figured out you really need to be in the 8-9 lb psi range to have the most fun in the dirt, I was climbing hills today I have never been able to on my 29er.


^ go tubeless and you can go another 1-2psi lower. feel is better, grip is better, pretty sweet.


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## VonBorakus (Sep 16, 2014)

In for a Night Train Bullet.

My brother got a Lurch that rides like a dream, no issues what so ever out of the box. My sister in law got a Boris that also has no issues. They both ride great and impressed me enough to take the plunge on the Night Train.

Can't wait!


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I had a problem with the back wheel but bd took care of it. I've never heard of anyone having a problem with their customer service so no worries 

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## Nail Every Trail (Sep 28, 2012)

Can anyone answer a quick question for me please. I own a BD FB4 with the 100mm double drilled rims. Can you tell me what size qr skewers come on this? The bike is at my other house otherwise I'd just go look myself. Thanks for your help. I know the bike has 135mm front hubs, but not sure if it's 9mm or 10mm qr axle.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

9mm? They make a 10?

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## Kawidan (Sep 13, 2010)

Could this be the Bluto Equipped Lurch?


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

^^^Maybe a "Lurch II" since the current version has a straight downtube.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

donn12 said:


> there are 133 pages of people that are mostly thrilled with their new fat bike from bikes direct. I think there are about 5 that are not happy right now. most of the bikes are between 800-1000 that come via ups....if it has to be perfect go to a bike shop and pick it apart. you will pay more $ and that may be worth it to some people. For my fat bike it is not. I like my Boris so much I may buy another so I have a fat bike for the beach and all that entails as well as another for trails and snow.


Sorry to upset your fragile sensibilities but the last time I checked these forums were created for people with like interests to discuss there thoughts, concerns and the like. I certainly am by no means picking apart this or any bike from BD but only expressing my concerns by agreeing with another post as I do with this post over in the Lurch Lounge:

Quote
"This thread has pretty much digressed to the emotional BD-thread norm"

Moving On


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## donn12 (Mar 25, 2012)

Actually I meant it the other way. I have several more expensive bikes and I 
like to go to the LBS and look them over and make sure everything is ok before I buy. My standards are lower for this because of the price (and with that comes the UPS carton that may or may not have been roughed up)and because I primarily am using my Boris on the beach and I know that sand will destroy everything besides the frame over time.



skywardx said:


> Sorry to upset your fragile sensibilities but the last time I checked these forums were created for people with like interests to discuss there thoughts, concerns and the like. I certainly am by no means picking apart this or any bike from BD but only expressing my concerns by agreeing with another post as I do with this post over in the Lurch Lounge:
> 
> Quote
> "This thread has pretty much digressed to the emotional BD-thread norm"
> ...


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## Greg_o (Mar 22, 2012)

For any fellow Canadians (or others ordering outside the US) here's my progress, ordered the Boris last week and am using BD's recommended forwarder Myus.com

As mentioned by another member if your shipping and billing address don't match they will contact you to confirm as a security measure, which in my case added an extra day to the process. No bid deal but since I did call their 'Canada Line' and they don't ship outside of the US they should have realized at that time the check would be needed. Not a complaint but certainly an efficiency they could easily implement to their already popular service. Four days later the package is at Myus in Florida. I'm sure if I looked I could have found a cheaper forwarder (maybe one closer to the border since BD ships within the states for free so the secong leg of the journey would cost less.. lol) but simply went with their recommendation.

I expect it to ship to me tomorrow and I should have it in roughly 4 business days. Shipping with UPS Worldwide saver is going to be about $220. I chose Worldwide saver as in the past it seems to be the one UPS service where customs fees are paid up front as part of the above cost = no surprises. Hopefully I am correct here. I knew from recent shipments I always get nailed on customs with Fedex and DHL. USPS would likely have a lower customs fee but they are slower and hand it off to Canada Post here which is even slower and I don't trust them for anything of significant value.

Will update as things progress, and once received will be in the Boris report, cheers all.


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## beachbum1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Anyone know if the Sturgis Bullet is offset or symmetrical? I poured over the BD website and couldn't find any mention of it. I currently have an email out to them.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

donn12 said:


> Actually I meant tithe other way. I have several more expensive bikes and I
> like to go to the LBS and look them over and make sure everything is ok before I buy. My standards are lower for this because of the price (and with that comes the UPS carton that may or may not have been roughed up)and because I primarily am using my Boris on the beach and I know that sand will destroy everything besides the frame over time.


I agree 100% that expectations have to be in line with the price that these bikes are offered at. I to have more expensive bikes, my last and current is a 2014 Specialized EVO HT that out of the box no upgrades cost me $2500, but I have almost 1600 hard single track miles with no mechanical issues what so ever. So I Know my hopes of a pristine bike, namely the Night-Train, shipped UPS have to be throttled back but Im keeping my fingers crossed.

Just a few of the 1600...sometimes failure is not an option :thumbsup:


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## pzvi (Aug 15, 2013)

Response to post #3319 above 

Just exactly how far over the border are you? In a totaly unrelated hobby forum that I used to frequent and sold things on, one of my repeated buyers would get a USPS postal box in the US side and whenever he bought something from a US based seller, he would just come over to the US side to get his merchandise and go back home to the Canadian side. No Customs hassles and much faster and cheaper shipping for him. Granted, he lived in Vacouver.


YKN


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

beachbum1 said:


> Anyone know if the Sturgis Bullet is offset or symmetrical? I poured over the BD website and couldn't find any mention of it. I currently have an email out to them.


It has 190mm/150mm hubs, it is symmetric.

Offset bikes use 135mm/135mm hubs.


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## dubinjs (Nov 6, 2010)

Looking at buying one of these for the winter snow rides. I am looking at the Sturgis or the Night Train, but can't figure out the difference between the two other than the component group set and color choices. The geometry and design all seem to be the exact same. Am I missing something?? 

I like the design of the Boris too, but it has a more narrow fork and seems to be designed more for dry trail riding. Am I correct? This is my intro to Fat Bikes here;-)


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

dubinjs said:


> Looking at buying one of these for the winter snow rides. I am looking at the Sturgis or the Night Train, but can't figure out the difference between the two other than the component group set and color choices. The geometry and design all seem to be the exact same. Am I missing something??
> 
> I like the design of the Boris too, but it has a more narrow fork and seems to be designed more for dry trail riding. Am I correct? This is my intro to Fat Bikes here;-)


You are correct. Sturgis/Nightrain are the same frame. Components are the only difference. Boris takes smaller tires. Not necessarily dirt focused. Just depends on what you want for tires.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

dubinjs said:


> I like the design of the Boris too, but it has a more narrow fork and seems to be designed more for dry trail riding. Am I correct? This is my intro to Fat Bikes here;-)


What *car_nut* said,

plus, the Boris has a narrower Q factor, if that matters to you.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

rex615 said:


> ^^^Maybe a "Lurch II" since the current version has a straight downtube.


Kawidan was correct!

Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Lurch X9 SRAM ROckshox Bluto Equipped


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

My Credit Card is begging me, "USE ME". Bluto looks SICK on Lurch :thumbsup: I just wish they did the Motobecane logo without big white background. Just the name with frame color surround would be cleaner looking, IMO.


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

I just about wet myself. I think i will commit now.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Xpcgamer said:


> Kawidan was correct!


He sure was. I was thrown off the by the curved downtube in the blueprint, but the bike in the pic seems to be the regular Lurch frame with a straight downtube.


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

*FOR SALE.... FB4 Pro 16" black*

Selling my FB4 Pro that I bought last season.
Never used the brakes, rotors, tires, rear derailleur, large chainring, stem, handlebar, or seatpost. It was a rolling chassis for a bunch of parts from my collection. All back together now with original parts minus the seat (I have a more padded seat on there now). 
I bought this to see if I was going to like "riding fat"....Turns out I did, and have since purchased a new fatbike. Wife does not know why I have 2 so one has to go.
Asking $650 plus ground shipping.

PM me if you are interesred.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

LOL I was quoted on there website, to bad I have the Boris not Lurch


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

sml-2727 said:


> LOL I was quoted on there website, to bad I have the Boris not Lurch


 I saw that, they should have looked at your avatar.


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## cleopatra999 (May 9, 2012)

pzvi said:


> Response to post #3319 above
> 
> Just exactly how far over the border are you? In a totaly unrelated hobby forum that I used to frequent and sold things on, one of my repeated buyers would get a USPS postal box in the US side and whenever he bought something from a US based seller, he would just come over to the US side to get his merchandise and go back home to the Canadian side. No Customs hassles and much faster and cheaper shipping for him. Granted, he lived in Vacouver.
> 
> YKN


We are in the same boat here, fortunately we are just 45 mins from the border where there is shipping outlet. We have ordered our two Boris x7 to there    Should be arriving anyday now. Couldn't be happier. We will spend a couple nights down there so we can bring them back without duty/taxes. I think we will be super happy with our choice. Thanks to everyone for their comments about the BD bikes. Will post how they do in our winter riding.


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## MattNorv (Jun 1, 2013)

So is the Nighttrain/Sturgis more of a trail/mtn bike than the Lurch?


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

MattNorv said:


> So is the Nighttrain/Sturgis more of a trail/mtn bike than the Lurch?


I wouldn't say that, but the NT definitely has been components. 
It has the bad ass Guide brakes, which alone is almost worth the difference between the Sturgis Bullet and the NT Bullet. Combined with the other upgrades, definitely worth the difference in price.


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## MattNorv (Jun 1, 2013)

I'm more concerned with the geometries since I currently ride SLX components and they are fine for me. I'm a novice when it comes to reading geometry charts and figuring out how the bike will ride.

The Lurch is based on the Pugsly which is a more stable/touring bike? The NT is based on the FatBoy which is more trail/racey oriented? The Lurch will also be heavier than the NT since the frame is steel.

I'm looking for a bike for my local trail riding and and a bit of snowy roads. My local area, Horsetooth Mountain Park, is a lot of up and down. I am going to get the Bluto version, I know that much...

I can demo the pugsly w/o a bluto for about $70/day.... I haven't been able to find a way to demo the Fatboy.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

More trail worthy?? No, they are all fat bikes, there's some component differences, but they are all designed and function more or less the same. The only significant component differences that affect ride quality are having a Bluto and tire size. A Bluto is going to make for a better handling bike, less bounce, more comfortable. The narrower tires are going to speed up handling and reduce pedaling effort.

The only geometry difference that can be "known" without having all of the bikes lined up for test rides is that the Lurch has a sliding drop out that allows the rider to change wheel base. This is why I bought the Lurch and so far it has been a good choice. I am running some Missions now, have some Floaters waiting in the wings, and because I went to 4" tires I can run the wheel all the way forward, which has made the bike "twitchy" and quite nimble.

Last night I swapped stems, installed a 45mm, slammed, using a 35mm ride 760mm bar, it was so much fun


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

cleopatra999 said:


> We are in the same boat here, fortunately we are just 45 mins from the border where there is shipping outlet. We have ordered our two Boris x7 to there    Should be arriving anyday now. Couldn't be happier. We will spend a couple nights down there so we can bring them back without duty/taxes. I think we will be super happy with our choice. Thanks to everyone for their comments about the BD bikes. Will post how they do in our winter riding.


Ogdensburg, by any chance?


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## MattNorv (Jun 1, 2013)

So I could make the Lurch into a single speed then? Something I like in a frame, a lot of different options.


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

*perfect rack. Mines an X7 but should fit all*













great rear rack and perfect fit. As a bonus if you get it with the matching lock in bag you have essentially a fender... all aluminun and solid. I got the one shown, 5 minute install and 8" wide clears evrything. 
Amazon.com : Ibera PakRak IB-RA5 Touring Plus Bicycle Carrier : Bike Racks : Sports & Outdoors


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

> My Credit Card is begging me, "USE ME". Bluto looks SICK on Lurch I just wish they did the Motobecane logo without big white background. Just the name with frame color surround would be cleaner looking, IMO.


Whoa, 120mm Bluto and the frame geometry is the same??

I did some comparing of bike geometry with a buddies Zero (the one with the 135mm rear and a split for a belt drive), he had a slightly longer fork than the Lurch (480mm vs 460mm). It was suggested by the guys at Zero that he go with an 80mm fork, but he added a Bluto 100mm, which rides pretty good (not too slack). He said he's considering going to a 120mm air bladder...but that's a bike that had some correction built into the fork.

As a result of riding his bike and thinking "real hard", I ordered an 80mm Bluto, whcih should be here in the next week. If it doesn't feel too slack, I may up it to 100mm in time, but 120mm, man that is waaay slack!

20mm = 1 degree. If a 80mm fork at 25% sag is approximately the same as a stock Lurch fork (460mm), a 120mm fork is going to subtract 2 degrees of head tube angle.

Remember back in the day when bikes were first getting suspension forks, 80mm seemed like a lot. Even as recent as ten years ago, suspension forks for 29ers were still 100mm, so bumping to a big fork could make a huge difference in geometry if the fork was not corrected.

In other words, unless that Lurch II frame has been changed significantly, it might be wise to wait on some ride reports from folks running 80mm and 100mm Blutos on their Lurch I. Then again, you can always change the air bladder...


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I have a Sturgis Bullet on order. Will get it shipped to Niagara Falls, NY, drive down from Toronto to get it and bring it back over. Expecting to pay the HST. Hopefully not. Maybe I'll go down with my family for a couple days vacation to avoid the HST.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Wait so if you stay a few days here you don't have to pay any taxes to bring it back in? What is you just go down throw it together and then rub some dirt on it..? 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

ou2mame said:


> Wait so if you stay a few days here you don't have to pay any taxes to bring it back in? What is you just go down throw it together and then rub some dirt on it..?
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


The longer you stay, the more you can bring back across the border duty free. And the exemption is a per person exemption. But technically you can't adds three peoples exemption up for one single big purchase. But $1200 over 3 people should be okay.

You can try the dirt on bike and bring back. But if you don't declare a bike going down and they catch you, you also pay a hefty fine in addition to the taxes. And get black listed and will likely go to secondary inspection for all future border crossings.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Ok.. What if you brought a rusted pos and came back with a fat bike? 

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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

ou2mame said:


> Ok.. What if you brought a rusted pos and came back with a fat bike?
> 
> Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


Not quite like taking bald tires and coming back with fresh ones on your car.

Not worth the $150 savings to jeopardize the potential fine and black listing. I do enough travel for work that I don't need that hassle. I'm picking up in person to save the extra $225 or so on freight forwarding charges to get it to my door from the border.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Lol... I would totally try that. Maybe an old motobecane even and just leave it in front of a 7/11 or something. America! 

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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Ah, so they finally offer a steel frame with Bluto. Seriously considering changing my order from Night Train. I am jealous of the rack mounts, and it isn't like one would notice the extra weight of steel on a 35lb bike.

EDIT then again, still only BB7 on the Lurch Bluto (though it's cheaper) and you lose the front fork rack mounts because of the Bluto (duh). So compared to the aluminum framed bikes, the only downside is having to use unconventional rack solutions (p-clips). Steel vs aluminum for a fat bike though... not sure what to think.

I'm still *seriously* disappointed with the way color options depend on the equipment I choose. Getting the higher end stuff bars you from the coolest colors: white, purple, gold (gone anyway though, right?).


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

The Night Train is thru axle rear vs horizontal drops on the lurch. Thru axle is a requirement for me. I'd pay the premium for that alone. If you intend to run single, you may feel differently. 

I do like that the lurch has shorter stays, though...

I think I prefer steel bikes aver aluminum, but it's not critical IMO, particularly on a fatty.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

> I'm still *seriously* disappointed with the way color options depend on the equipment I choose. Getting the higher end stuff bars you from the coolest colors: white, purple, gold (gone anyway though, right?).


I also wish the color options made more sense. I'm getting a Night Train and really don't like the black or purple. If they just slap the components on a frame why can't all the colors be offered on each trim?


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

well shiver me titties. that lurch is amazing. i already ordered my bullet, and i'm happy about that, but dang, i just sold my pugsly in size XS (14) because i couldnt handle rigid riding on my sally hands. The bullet is at least 1.5 inches longer in the top tube which worries me a bit, so i would have loved to have another 14 inch frame. oh well, waiting until november is much better than Jan!


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

I pre-ordered a Night Train about a month ago. I have been thinking about how nice it would be to have a Bluto fs so I broke down and changed my order to a Sturgis Bullet. 

Why not just go for a Night Train Bullet you may ask... I just bought a 2013 Specialized Camber Comp 29er and I need to draw the line somewhere.


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## 0uTkAsT (Aug 28, 2014)

brassos said:


> View attachment 924398
> View attachment 924399
> great rear rack and perfect fit. As a bonus if you get it with the matching lock in bag you have essentially a fender... all aluminun and solid. I got the one shown, 5 minute install and 8" wide clears evrything.
> Amazon.com : Ibera PakRak IB-RA5 Touring Plus Bicycle Carrier : Bike Racks : Sports & Outdoors


I almost bought this same rack, I'm just using an Ibera seat post rack now. Can you take a closeup picture of how it bolts on to the bottom near the hub? Does it attach to the disc brake mount? Thanks in advance.


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

at the hub stay area there are 2 tapped holes on both sides of the frame. This rack has extensions that come with longer metric bolts that screw right in to the one above the quick release on both sides. doesnt even come close to any kind of interference. easy install..
will try to take another pic in am


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## brassos (Aug 10, 2014)

i just noticed. you can make out the location in the second picture i posted. just above blue qr lever and slightly back.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Friday was lefty day! built the wheel and installed fork, clamps and decided to go with a Surly Bud 4.8 in front. it's almost finished, I'm waiting on black Surly rim strips to arrive before i set them up tubeless. i decided on black because i want the blue high visibility tape to stand out at night. after that it will be done... until i decide to upgrade the fork internals to PBR, but that can wait for now.

here it is as it stands today.
Lefty Max 140- limited to 100mm of travel with fat lefty clamps from mendoncyclesmith
Shimano SLX hydraulic brakes f/r with 203mm/160mm f/r XT rotor (ice tech)
Surly Bud front tire, On-One floater rear on stock rims
SDG saddle
SPD pedals

View attachment 925343
View attachment 925344
View attachment 925345
View attachment 925346
View attachment 925347
View attachment 925348
View attachment 925349

and this is what the reflective tape looks like at night, i plan on using single dots instead of double though. 
View attachment 925351

View attachment 925352


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## Sparkitekt (Nov 9, 2012)

Beautiful! Pardon my ignorance, but what kind of hub did you use for the lefty?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Cannondale lefty hub. it's the most economical option, Project 321 also makes a more blingy hub. there are other manufacturers too.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Sweetness!


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

Very nice...I have been looking for lefties but they seem few and far between...looking like I have to buy a used bike and pull the fork off to get one...


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## MIKE157 (Nov 30, 2008)

MUSTCLIME said:


> Very nice...I have been looking for lefties but they seem few and far between...looking like I have to buy a used bike and pull the fork off to get one...


Project 321 sells Leftys


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

MIKE157 said:


> Project 321 sells Leftys


They sell new lefties...you need the older ones with the removable clamps, so you can install the fattie clamps.


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

Did you need the extension arms? We couldn't figure out how to get it to fit my husband's x7 without the extra length.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

i think your referring to the special "fat lefty" clamps needed to have the proper offset for fatbikes. check out the pics above. as mentioned by MUSTCLIMB, you need an older lefty fork with removable clamps. if you have the correct fork all you need is the clamps from Mendoncyclesmith ($220-240), the hub, and spacers to limit the travel of the fork.


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## jnl1105 (Oct 3, 2011)

The older 140 max limited Ted to 100 mm travel and updated to pbr is the best one available


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

It's interesting to me that from what I can see, the main BD site doesn't link to the fat bike section. I was looking at bikes for the past month and was wishing they had kids bikes and fat bikes. For some reason one morning, I did a web search and stumbled on it.

Upon finding the BD Fat bikes site, I immediately ordered a green Sturgis, and then found this forum (because mtbr is the only thing you find if you web search motobecane sturgis). Since reading this forum, I see the point that you're getting a better deal if you buy the bluto equipped model. Since I prefer to stick with my first choice, mostly to keep the price down and I really want the green, it's nice to see some interesting options with the Lefty.

Oh and I am doing all you people who want a bluto a favor by leaving one more of them available!

I'm thinking I can suffer with my fat bike as it is for awhile once it arrives, and as the fat bike niche grows, I'm hoping I'll have all the options I need, and the lefty looks like an interesting one.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Get a Bluto if you can, the ride without a fork is not "soft" just because it's a fat tired bike, running a low pressure makes the ride "squirelly" so that's not really a solution on dirt. My fork is on order 

I can even see FS on a fatty, but that seems a bit spendy for a special use bike; at least for me


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## geffr999 (Jun 16, 2014)

ETChipotle said:


> Since reading this forum, I see the point that you're getting a better deal if you buy the bluto equipped model. Since I prefer to stick with my first choice, mostly to keep the price down and I really want the green, it's nice to see some interesting options with the Lefty.
> 
> Oh and I am doing all you people who want a bluto a favor by leaving one more of them available!
> 
> I'm thinking I can suffer with my fat bike as it is for awhile once it arrives, and as the fat bike niche grows, I'm hoping I'll have all the options I need, and the lefty looks like an interesting one.


You would be money ahead to get the Bluto rather than buy rigid and put a lefty on. Of course if you want the Lefty then go for it. Even still, you could buy the Bluto then sell it to get $$$ for Lefty if so inclined.


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## ETChipotle (Sep 20, 2014)

geffr999 said:


> You would be money ahead to get the Bluto rather than buy rigid and put a lefty on. Of course if you want the Lefty then go for it. Even still, you could buy the Bluto then sell it to get $$$ for Lefty if so inclined.


Okay, you talked me into it. Switched from Green to White and added a bullet.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Anyone care to guess what the aluminum firk in the Sturgis/Night Train will weigh? Starting to consider changing my order to a Bullet and then ditching the Bluto if I don't like it.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

The problem is 150mm front fork options - of which there are few if any, and nothing I've found in Carbon yet. If anyone know of one, please let us know.


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

watermonkey said:


> The problem is 150mm front fork options - of which there are few if any, and nothing I've found in Carbon yet. If anyone know of one, please let us know.


Wonder if you could buy the stock aluminum from BD over time? I guess they don't sell them now because then everyone would get the Bullet model and sell the fork for profit then switch to aluminum fork.


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## hankscorpio (Jun 20, 2012)

Ok getting the fatbike bug and gathering some info. First quick question is for opinions on the fantom comp vs the boris? I can visually see the difference in the frames and they are speced differently but wondering if there is more too it? Just a preference?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

watermonkey said:


> The problem is 150mm front fork options - of which there are few if any, and nothing I've found in Carbon yet. If anyone know of one, please let us know.


Framed has a 150mm carbon fork. It is the same one they are offering on their Al and Carbon Alaskans. When I contacted them they said they would be available for purchase separately.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Sweet - thanks for the info on the Framed forks.


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## tinkerbike (Sep 21, 2014)

MTBR newbie here. I do have a few Bikes direct products, however, including a titanium road bike and a couple of cross frames that I built up. A curiosity about fat bikes brought me here. It looks like Bikes Direct has some of the best values for people wanting to try them. They sure do hide these things on their website though, I don't think I would have found them if I hadn't seen this thread in this section on MTBR. Seriously.

Anyway, I just got confirmation on my Night Train order! This should be a great snow bike for the upcoming Winter here in Maine. And I've got miles of trails to ride right out my back door. Some local guys are telling me that they're riding fat bikes year round. One guy even sold his full suspension 27.5 rig and is full time on a Specialized Fatboy. The Night Train looks like a cost effective alternative to that bike, so I ordered one myself.

I may swap some of the cockpit parts, and that Framed carbon fork looks very appealing:

Alaskan Carbon Fork | Framed Bikes


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## siv (Aug 13, 2006)

Sweet, no prices there that I can see. Damn, maybe shoulda just bought a Framed fat bike instead???


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

siv said:


> Sweet, no prices there that I can see. Damn, maybe shoulda just bought a Framed fat bike instead???


I had a period where I had the same questions for myself. I feel that the specs on the Night Train (I got the Bullet version) are a better offering than the Framed offerings. I am considering getting the Framed Alaskan Carbon frame and swapping out everything else. Still a better spec/price combo than getting the complete bike from Framed/The House.

Emails I received from The House said that the frame only option was due to be available for pre-order (Dec 1 delivery) this week...I would guess that the carbon fork might also be available in the same timeframe. I have checked the site with no luck on finding the frame only or the fork only yet this week.


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## Kickngas (Aug 6, 2013)

OnThaCouch said:


> I am considering getting the Framed Alaskan Carbon frame and swapping out everything else.


 What size will your Night Train frame be? I would be interested if you are going to sell to offset costs.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Kickngas said:


> What size will your Night Train frame be? I would be interested if you are going to sell to offset costs.


I haven't made a decision on selling the NT frame. I will at least have it for a month to a couple of months as the carbon frames aren't available until Dec. I'll decide after riding it a while.

FYI...my order is for the 15" size (I'm going the more standover/longer stem route). I'm 5'7" with around 30" inseam.


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## Bryan1113 (Feb 21, 2013)

So take you all are happy with your bikes? Looking to get Fat Bike and my buddy told me about Bikesdirect and they all look very nice! Sure beats the price of the other brands..


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

I love my Boris X7. A couple small issues but saving $500+ is well worth it!


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## Chop1869 (Oct 30, 2005)

I put a set of riser bars on my Boris X7 and it fits me perfect. Ride it 3-4 times a week. Want to try tubeless and change pedals. Most fun I've had on a bike, can't wait to ride.


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## Bryan1113 (Feb 21, 2013)

Yeah you can't beat the price for that Boris X7!!! good to see some positive feedback on this bike


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## tequilasunset (Aug 26, 2014)

Shipping... got my notice 2 days ago bike was shipped... ZERO movement 2 days later on UPS tracker. Is this a typical delay in actually shipping?


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

tinkerbike said:


> MTBR newbie here. I do have a few Bikes direct products, however, including a titanium road bike and a couple of cross frames that I built up. A curiosity about fat bikes brought me here. It looks like Bikes Direct has some of the best values for people wanting to try them. They sure do hide these things on their website though, I don't think I would have found them if I hadn't seen this thread in this section on MTBR. Seriously.
> 
> Anyway, I just got confirmation on my Night Train order! This should be a great snow bike for the upcoming Winter here in Maine. And I've got miles of trails to ride right out my back door. Some local guys are telling me that they're riding fat bikes year round. One guy even sold his full suspension 27.5 rig and is full time on a Specialized Fatboy. The Night Train looks like a cost effective alternative to that bike, so I ordered one myself.
> 
> ...


I would never sell my full sus bike and ride only my fat bike but I love riding my fat in the snow. I too have lots of trails right outside my subdivision. I had a blast on my fb4 pro last winter. I have new huge surley tires all ready for this winter. Bring it! PS: my fat sits when there's no snow.


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## tinkerbike (Sep 21, 2014)

This fat bike will be the first new mtb I've bought since the MB3 I got in 1991... I've had dozens of road bikes over the years, I just haven't been as interested in trail riding. Most New England trails are technical and tough, and I hate the inevitable crashing. But three months off the bikes in the Winter just ain't cuttin' it, so I'm really looking forward to having the fat bike to ride on the snow covered trails.

Funny thing is though, I rode the old MB3 the other day, and now I'm curious about new 27.5 mountain bikes too.

I think I'll just try the fat bike first.


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

tequilasunset said:


> Shipping... got my notice 2 days ago bike was shipped... ZERO movement 2 days later on UPS tracker. Is this a typical delay in actually shipping?


They send an email from UPS as soon as you order your bike. Is the bike you ordered actually in stock, or have a later expected delivery date? The UPS tracking they create is really just a marker for when your bike actually arrives and is shipped. If the bike you ordered is in stock, I would expect a couple of days before they ship it, then contact them if necessary.


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## tequilasunset (Aug 26, 2014)

pxpaulx said:


> They send an email from UPS as soon as you order your bike. Is the bike you ordered actually in stock, or have a later expected delivery date? The UPS tracking they create is really just a marker for when your bike actually arrives and is shipped. If the bike you ordered is in stock, I would expect a couple of days before they ship it, then contact them if necessary.


Yup in stock, payment accepted... I am like a kid at Christmas  and was hoping to have it by Sat so I could figure out what rack set up I am going to do.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Which bike?


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## tequilasunset (Aug 26, 2014)

16 Bullseye Monster matte black... found out I did not read the fine print in the yellow box. Shipping mid-end of Oct. So I changed my order with the same shipping time... Boris x7 Burnt Orange (I had been drooling over it and was wishing I had ordered it instead- it all worked out)


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## SundayRiverRider (Oct 29, 2008)

JoeMountain, what size Surly tires have you managed to squeeze into your FB4 frame? 
I have some Floaters right now, and I might like to get a larger winter set up.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

SundayRiverRider said:


> JoeMountain, what size Surly tires have you managed to squeeze into your FB4 frame?
> I have some Floaters right now, and I might like to get a larger winter set up.


4.8. Bud front, Lou back. I'm perfectly happy with the fit but haven't had it out in snow yet. Just rode around my basement. I believe they are going to rock. I can't wait. Yes FB4 Pro. LARGE. I switched from the stock inner tube to a Surley in back and my clearance was a little better. I think the tube is better quality and makes the tire more uniformly sized everywhere.


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## SundayRiverRider (Oct 29, 2008)

Thanks for the info Joe. Wow, you squeezed some big ones on there. I'd love to see some pics of this set up when you have a chance. Did you feel that the 4 inch tires were too small in the snow? Or you just wanted a monster truck set up and ultimate float.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

The stock tires were totally fine but I am going for the monster size and better float in the nasty sections I may have to cross. Better climbing too even though the stock with low pressure did climb well. These will just kill it. I only ride in snow so the fattest tires will rule the forest. To see all sorts of my pics look back in the thread. It's all there in the past few weeks or so.

PS: Click my username then "view forum posts". You'll see all my posts here. And I really only post in this thread. That should help.


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## oldbear52 (Jul 6, 2014)

I am using my stock tires until They are worn out. Maybe I will order a pair of the folding Mission tires from Bikes direct in November and get some Surly toobs to go with them. The stock missions are a decent tire to start with for newbies. I am on a fixed income (ssi and retirement) and can only replace things as they wear out. In October I am replacing the stock pedals with some from Bike Nashbar. (Nashbar Verge platforms.)


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

Night Train Final Review!!

Final Review: Motobecane NightTrain Bullet Fat Bike | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

GaryH said:


> Night Train Final Review!!
> 
> Final Review: Motobecane NightTrain Bullet Fat Bike | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog


37 lbs!!!!! Holy cow what a beast


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

sml-2727 said:


> 37 lbs!!!!! Holy cow what a beast


Yeah, the wheels will have to go after the winter. I believe thats the weight with double wall rims and beefier tires/tubes. Should be able to drop 4-5 lbs with mid-fat wheels and lighter cockpit and 1x drive train. It is a fat bike after all, not a race machine. ;-)


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Yeah, the wheels will have to go after the winter. I believe thats the weight with double wall rims and beefier tires/tubes. Should be able to drop 4-5 lbs with mid-fat wheels and lighter cockpit and 1x drive train. It is a fat bike after all, not a race machine. ;-)


Yes, it's double walled with 4.8" tires. The production one will come with single wall rims with 4.5" tires.

Gary


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

GaryH said:


> Yes, it's double walled with 4.8" tires. The production one will come with single wall rims with 4.5" tires.
> 
> Gary


Last years 4.8 is the same as this years 4.5. Just that this year's labelling is apparently true to marking and not overstated. And leaves room for the 4.7 XL that's actually 4.7. Would be odd to have a 4.8 that measures 4.5 when you have a 4.7 XL tha measures 4.7.

Based on Wienmann's website, I deduced that the single wall will save maybe about 100-150g per wheel. So final bike may be 1/2 lb lighter. And this s an XL frame.

Let's not forget the 29lb fatboy expert doesn't use a thru axle rear, has a carbon fork instead of a bluto and is 135mm front and costs double the night train bullet. This makes it about a 34 lb night train without the bluto. Very respectable given the price point and features/spec.


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

First Ride Review of NT Bullet (Bluto) for those interested: First Ride: 2015 Motobecane NightTrain Bullet Fatbike | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

sml-2727 said:


> 37 lbs!!!!! Holy cow what a beast


This was already established earlier, and a lot of it (we hope) has to do with the pre-production rims and frame size.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

GaryH said:


> Night Train Final Review!!
> 
> Final Review: Motobecane NightTrain Bullet Fat Bike | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog


from article " I ran 15psi for much of my testing but on a "flow trail" I should have probably run closer to 25psi to prevent the tires from deforming so much in the corners."
If reviewer's claimed riding psi's are accurate, and he really does plan on going up to 25 psi, then I think this guy is missing the whole point. Even approaching 15 psi rattles my teeth out.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

AndrewZorn said:


> This was already established earlier, and a lot of it (we hope) has to do with the pre-production rims and frame size.


Sorry if I missed it but have been trying to skim 70 pages...... which bike is this weight referencing?? I'm eye-balling the Stugis Bullet and can't really find an accurate weight. Motobecane sight says approx. 35lbs but seems to say that for alot of the bikes....??


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

Do any of you have a picture of any bike direct's matte silver fat bike? I waited too long and now all the black ones of my size is gone. 
Gary


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

GaryH said:


> Do any of you have a picture of any bike direct's matte silver fat bike? I waited too long and now all the black ones of my size is gone.
> Gary


I snooze, I lose right? No 17.5" NT Bullet available .


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

GaryH said:


> I snooze, I lose right? No 17.5" NT Bullet available .


January ....... whhhhaaaa!


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## JonL (Jul 23, 2008)

*Still Available for sale - Motobecane FB4 PRO*

I sold this bike, but the buyer ran into some financial difficult now needs to resell it. I said I would help out. Same $650 price. Color is matte black with the green rim strips.

Selling my FB4 Pro that I bought last season.
Never used the brakes, rotors, tires, rear derailleur, large chainring, stem, handlebar, or seatpost. It was a rolling chassis for a bunch of parts from my collection. All back together now with original parts minus the seat (I have a more padded seat on there now).
I bought this to see if I was going to like "riding fat"....Turns out I did, and have since purchased a new fatbike. Wife does not know why I have 2 so one has to go.
Asking $650 plus ground shipping.

PM me if you are interesred.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

GaryH said:


> Do any of you have a picture of any bike direct's matte silver fat bike? I waited too long and now all the black ones of my size is gone.
> Gary


Here you go....Fantom 29 Pro in Matte Silver I bought for my son...


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## GaryH (Sep 10, 2004)

pearsth said:


> Here you go....Fantom 29 Pro in Matte Silver I bought for my son...


Nice, but i guess it's a moot point because all the pre-orders are sold out. I was waiting till the very end to order because I didn't want $1500 being held for 3 months (and I was figuring what size to order - 15 or 17 in).


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Those are both really common sizes, so waiting was probably not the best move lol.. You can call them and see if they ordered any extras ordered though.. I called before pre-ordering me Boris cause I was worried they may have over sold them and I was ordering late and they said that white was the best bet to make sure I would get it. 

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Should I keep my Sturgis Bullet order or cancel it and go with the Framed Minnesota 3.0? The 3.0 is a bit more $$ when you add in shipping (less the 9% cash back from Active Junky) - but it comes with both the rigid fork and the Bluto. I have also ordered a Bucksaw frame and once it comes in I was going to swap the Bluto from the Sturgis to it and try and find a 15mm tapered rigid fork. Oh this is a tough call - I have a Motobecane already (Fantom Pro 29er) and LOVE that bike, and I have been waiting 2 months already...

I suppose I can wait and just get a carbon fork - I am sure someone will have one out by early next year that will meet my requirements, right? The plan is once I have the Bucksaw built it will be a three season shred machine and the Sturgis will be my winter/loaner/backup bike. Once my BS frame comes in (JANUARY) - I will probably not ride the Sturgis much while the BS is new.


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Destr0, what size did you order?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

XL 21" - I am 6'3" and 240#. My current moto bike is a Large (19") and wish it were a touch bigger. I did 5 miles each at a demo day of a Salsa Muk Large and XL and the XL felt way better (the geo chart for the Muk and the Sturgis are very very close). The LBS where I ordered my Bucksaw frame has one coming at the end of the month/early Nov (about same time my Sturgis will be here) in XL so I will be able to measure and see if the Bluto will fit the BS frame. If not I will have to buy another Bluto. If that is the case my wife will not be happy.


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

I was hoping it was a 15....


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Update from bikesdirect facebook page:

"Many customers have the idea that we get bikes from just one factory. The fact is; we receive bikes from 3 different factories in Taiwan and 3 different factories in China.
The Factory that produces the Sturgis, Night Train, Lurch, and Boris The Brut FAT BIKE models is unsurpassed in quality by ANY factory in Asia. However, like all bicycle factories, their volume and experience with Fat Bikes is limited. Fat Bikes are, after all, a small and relatively new market.
Our first run of Lurches sold out and reviews by customers have been fantastic overall. However, we felt packing could be improved. Therefore, our CEO had the factory slow down production, increase inspections, and improve packing. In order to meet shipping requests, the factory had workers over time during the weekend.
Great News; the Sturgis and Night Train models are on the way. Better News; we feel there are no higher quality aluminum Fat Bikes produced.
Based on latest shipping confirmation these bikes could arrive at our Dallas warehouse anywhere from October 27th to November 10th. We wish that links in the distribution chain was as predictable as links in a bike chain. Of course, ocean vessels, trains, longshoremen, US Customs, and local truckers all have their own ideas on timely execution of their duties.
We are very excited to see the customer response to these bikes.
In January, Sturgis Bullet framesets will be available AND an extra shipment of complete Sturgis / Night Train bikes. Also in January, we will get Sturgis AL forks, Sturgis Express CF forks, and Lurch chrome-moly forks."


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Just got the same email. 
OK going to just keep the Moto order in place.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Wow, I'm kind of surprised some of these actually sold out... was beginning to think I was a real sucker for pre-ordering. The email we received seems to confirm the early-November ship date.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Newer pics of the Night-Train Midnight Purple and the Night-Train Bullet Matte Black and Matte Silver are up on BD website. Man that purple looks killer. Ive got the Jet Black coming but man not sure now:eekster: After getting the e-mail that they have set sail, Can Not Wait!


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

skywardx said:


> Newer pics of the Night-Train Midnight Purple and the Night-Train Bullet Matte Black and Matte Silver are up on BD website. Man that purple looks killer. Ive got the Jet Black coming but man not sure now:eekster: After getting the e-mail that they have set sail, Can Not Wait!


When the "new" geo charts came out I had to/chose to switch sizes on my NT Bullet and they were out of Matte Black and had to go with the Matte Silver. Looks pretty decent. Not bad at all.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

OnThaCouch said:


> When the "new" geo charts came out I had to/chose to switch sizes on my NT Bullet and they were out of Matte Black and had to go with the Matte Silver. Looks pretty decent. Not bad at all.


Totally agree....the silver looks great as well :thumbsup:

Originally ordered the Bullet in Matte Black but later changed to the non-Bluto NT. I wanted the option of going rigid in the winter so I purchased a Bluto and now should be good to go.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

Case anyone is interested got my Bluto from Merlin cycles $487.00 shipped. Recieved it in 4 days. They are a little cheaper now $473.00. In stock as well, last time I checked anyway.

Rockshox Bluto RL - Solo Air 26" MaxleLite 15 | Merlin Cycles


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Sturgis Express carbon fiber fork will be the ticket for winter riding! :thumbsup:


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Sturgis Express carbon fiber fork will be the ticket for winter riding! :thumbsup:


No No...Hi tech bikes only use Aluminium....oh...and bamboo ut:

Meet the AluBooya: the world's first aluminum and bamboo fat bike!



Sorry...Getting a little loopy waitin for the boat


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

OnThaCouch said:


> When the "new" geo charts came out I had to/chose to switch sizes on my NT Bullet and they were out of Matte Black and had to go with the Matte Silver. Looks pretty decent. Not bad at all.


When did the Geo chart change happen and what were the changes? I had a medium on order. Should I be looking at maybe getting a small now or did the Geo charts reveal smaller bikes for each size?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

Negotiator50 said:


> When did the Geo chart change happen and what were the changes? I had a medium on order. Should I be looking at maybe getting a small now or did the Geo charts reveal smaller bikes for each size?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


I don't know WHEN the change happened :eekster:. I read a post here that the geo charts changed and went back and looked at them and they were different :skep: (at least for the 15". I ordered...it is now a 15.5").

The 15.5" (formerly 15") no has a shorter ETT measurement than originally listed. I don't think any of the larger sizes changed.

I am more comfortable having measurements closer to my current rig :thumbsup: and went with the 17.5" (formerly listed as a 17" on the BD site when I placed my order).


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Sturgis Express carbon fiber fork will be the ticket for winter riding! :thumbsup:


This is what I thought when I received the update email from BD. I will definitely be getting one for my Sturgis Bullet.


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## fat_tires_are_fun (May 24, 2013)

So I wonder when we can expect to see the $1500 titanium fatty from these guys? Im sure its coming...looking forward to checking it out. Their regular ti bikes are a great value


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## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)

Any mention when the CF forks will be available?


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

Utahbikemike said:


> Any mention when the CF forks will be available?


The update email said January.


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## tequilasunset (Aug 26, 2014)

Still waiting on my Boris...............


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

fat_tires_are_fun said:


> So I wonder when we can expect to see the $1500 titanium fatty from these guys? Im sure its coming...looking forward to checking it out. Their regular ti bikes are a great value


Would much rather have Carbon if given a choice.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

sml-2727 said:


> Would much rather have Carbon if given a choice.


I'm getting a Framed Alaskan Carbon frame and moving parts over from my incoming Night Train Bullet.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

OnThaCouch said:


> I'm getting a Framed Alaskan Carbon frame and moving parts over from my incoming Night Train Bullet.


Looks nice, where did you purchase just the frame at? and how much?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

sml-2727 said:


> Looks nice, where did you purchase just the frame at? and how much?


From The House. I had been emailing back and forth looking for availability when I didn't see it on the website and was informed to call them directly to purchase the frame only. Glad I did as they apparently have an "all-black" option and snagged one.

$899.95 + $29.95 shipping. Due to ship late Nov./Early Dec. (same timeline as the complete bikes shipping).


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Will everything just transfer right over? I saw folks trying this with other frames and a lot wouldn't.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

pearsth said:


> Will everything just transfer right over? I saw folks trying this with other frames and a lot wouldn't.


I believe I'll need a new front der. (DM vs. clamp on) but everything else should be a swap over. The Alaskan comes with a Bluto option so that should be fine. The BB as compatible etc.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

OnThaCouch said:


> I believe I'll need a new front der. (DM vs. clamp on) but everything else should be a swap over. The Alaskan comes with a Bluto option so that should be fine. The BB as compatible etc.


The night train is listed as 190x12 Thru Axle. the Framed Alaskan Carbon looks to be a 197x12 thru axle. Looks like you may need to source some new Novatech rear hub end caps to fit 197x12. I'm hoping my night train is actually 197x12 and not 190x12 listed on BD website.

The headset may or may not work. Alaskan doesn't list what size (O.D.) cups is used.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

neons97 said:


> The night train is listed as 190x12 Thru Axle. the Framed Alaskan Carbon looks to be a 197x12 thru axle. Looks like you may need to source some new Novatech rear hub end caps to fit 197x12. I'm hoping my night train is actually 197x12 and not 190x12 listed on BD website.
> 
> The headset may or may not work. Alaskan doesn't list what size (O.D.) cups is used.


Forgot about the hub spacing. I know it is listed at 190 on the website but below is what I got directly from BD (no pun :skep when asking about the hubs. Bold was BDs emphasis not mine.

Hi Tom,

R/HUB(FH) 
T NOVATEC
D202SB-X12MM ALLOY REAR DISC HUB 32H.OLD:*12x197MM* , 4 CHINESE BEARINGS,2RS , FOR SNOW BIKE , W/O THROUGH PARTS , POLISH ANOD. BLACK W/NOVATEC LOGO 
Thanks, 
Chris

I figure I'll be able to get the headset info soon enough and it isn't a major issue/cost and wasn't a dealbreaker on the purchase :thumbsup:.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

OnThaCouch said:


> Forgot about the hub spacing. I know it is listed at 190 on the website but below is what I got directly from BD (no pun :skep when asking about the hubs. Bold was BDs emphasis not mine.
> 
> Hi Tom,
> 
> ...


This is really good news if it's actually the hub they are using. Assuming it isn't just jammed in a truly-190mm spacing.









Looks like the 197mm is only for the X12 axle (which the Night Train has). I wonder if this whole 190mm vs 197mm thing is all from the axle type.

The 0mm offset means the wheel won't have any dish, right? That's kinda nice. Weird having the unused space on the left, I'm used to seeing symmetric track hubs with some function (threads) on both sides.

Hopefully it's the D201SB up front which also has 0mm offset, despite the disc mount.

EDIT can't tell if this picture of the matte black NTB is now real or not: https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fat-bikes/nighttrain-bullet-blk-21.jpg
There are some things that look like fingerprints and scratches, but the welds look pretty perfect...


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I wish more bikes had internal cables. That bike looks really nice. Might have to buy one lol


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## tequilasunset (Aug 26, 2014)

Dumb question while I wait for my Boris, do I need standard or metric tools to assemble?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

*metric - local bike shop?*

Metric allen wrenches up to 8 mm, a t-25 torx for the disc rotor bolts, a 15 mm pedal wrench (you can use an 8mm allen wrench, but it's hard to torque down). Oh, and probably pedals if you don't have them. BD is notorious for shipping bikes without 
pedals.

That being said, the asking of your question warrants the asking of another. Do you have the mechanical skiils to properly assemble your new Boris? Anybody that has even the most fundamental and basic bike mechanic skills know that everything is metric. I think it would be in your very best interest to spend the additional money to have it built professionally at a local bike shop. You will enjoy your bike more, and your bike will thank you. Please don't take this the wrong way. I am trying to save you significant headaches and potential costly damage to your bike and yourself.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I got pedals with mine. Aluminum platforms actually, every other bd bike I've put together had those scary bear trap ones


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## tequilasunset (Aug 26, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> Metric allen wrenches up to 8 mm, a t-25 torx for the disc rotor bolts, a 15 mm pedal wrench (you can use an 8mm allen wrench, but it's hard to torque down). Oh, and probably pedals if you don't have them. BD is notorious for shipping bikes without pedals.


Thank you very much... no pedals? WTF? Why not exclude the handle bars or chains? Wow...


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## pxpaulx (Aug 5, 2014)

tequilasunset said:


> Thank you very much... no pedals? WTF? Why not exclude the handle bars or chains? Wow...


Pedals came with my X7 too.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

I think many bikes font come with pedals because it is a very personal preference. Many folks just swap them out anyway. I am glad they don't come on the Night Train. They would just sit in a box in the garage forever. Included pedals are often crappy and therefore not worth trying to sell.


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## tequilasunset (Aug 26, 2014)

pearsth said:


> I think many bikes don't come with pedals because it is a very personal preference. Many folks just swap them out anyway. I am glad they don't come on the Night Train. They would just sit in a box in the garage forever. Included pedals are often crappy and therefore not worth trying to sell.


Well i want to figure that after I put it together and get in the first quickie ride around the block.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

tequilasunset said:


> Well i want to figure that after I put it together and get in the first quickie ride around the block.


Hah...yeah, I get it. If I thought my bike was coming with pedals, then I didn't, I would be pissed. Since I am waiting so long for my Night Train to come, I have been armchair riding by buying components for it while waiting. Pedals, lock on grips, and bling items (bolts, bottle cage, etc) to accent the flat black with gold. I hope it comes soon, I almost bought a carbon stem and bars last night, which I know I probably wouldn't bother with if the bike were here. I am not that much of a weight weenie.


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## tequilasunset (Aug 26, 2014)

pearsth said:


> Hah...yeah, I get it. If I thought my bike was coming with pedals, then I didn't, I would be pissed. Since I am waiting so long for my Night Train to come, I have been armchair riding by buying components for it while waiting. Pedals, lock on grips, and bling items (bolts, bottle cage, etc) to accent the flat black with gold. I hope it comes soon, I almost bought a carbon stem and bars last night, which I know I probably wouldn't bother with if the bike were here. I am not that much of a weight weenie.


So where on line is a good place to buy said accessories and stuff? I would like a rear rack, I just need to figure out fitment for all the various items. I wouldn't think i could go to Wally World or a LBS and say I ride a Boris, hook me up with some bling!


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

tequilasunset said:


> So where on line is a good place to buy said accessories and stuff? I would like a rear rack, I just need to figure out fitment for all the various items. I wouldn't think i could go to Wally World or a LBS and say I ride a Boris, hook me up with some bling!


My go to's:
Universal cycles, use their VIP codes for discounts
Tree fort bikes
Aebike.com
Art's cyclery

Everyone else talks about Jensonusa and Pricepoint, but honestly I've never found what I need there. No complaints with regards to customer service however should they have what you want.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

tequilasunset said:


> So where on line is a good place to buy said accessories and stuff? I would like a rear rack, I just need to figure out fitment for all the various items. I wouldn't think i could go to Wally World or a LBS and say I ride a Boris, hook me up with some bling!


The hotdeals link up on top of this web site is a good listing of online bike shops. Personally, I do PricePoint, Ebay, and Nashbar most often.

As far as your LBS is concerned, I wouldn't be afraid to go there and feel them out. My LBS services bikes of mine they didn't sell me, and I buy maintenance items there.

I bought my wife's voodoo hoodoo online in the late 90's, and I brought it there for some help with the seat clamp and they happily sold me a new one that fit the odd size of the frame (30.6 vs the 31.8 I bought like a dummy) and didn't have a problem selling me a clamp and popping it on for me.

Tom


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

Has anyone put a Bluto on a FB4 yet? I just had my LBS tell me it would not work. They think the crown will hit the down tube.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

car_nut said:


> My go to's:
> Universal cycles, use their VIP codes for discounts
> Tree fort bikes
> Aebike.com
> ...


None of the Above I order from Chain Reaction. And sometimes from Competitive cyclist


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## jimmac23 (Oct 27, 2013)

watermonkey said:


> Metric allen wrenches up to 8 mm, a t-25 torx for the disc rotor bolts, a 15 mm pedal wrench (you can use an 8mm allen wrench, but it's hard to torque down). Oh, and probably pedals if you don't have them. BD is notorious for shipping bikes without
> pedals.
> That being said, the asking of your question warrants the asking of another. Do you have the mechanical skiils to properly assemble your new Boris? Anybody that has even the most fundamental and basic bike mechanic skills know that everything is metric. I think it would be in your very best interest to spend the additional money to have it built professionally at a local bike shop. You will enjoy your bike more, and your bike will thank you. Please don't take this the wrong way. I am trying to save you significant headaches and potential costly damage to your bike and yourself.


I assembled my Lurch with only a multitool. I have plenty of tools but thought I'd see how far I could get since I carry that with me on the bike. I had to play with the brakes since I've never assembled discs but with a little help from youtube... Then i had a problem getting the deraileurs adjusted (real close but just not perfect). So before wasting too much time, took it to my lbs (Per****ance Bike) and they determined that my derailer hanger was slighly bent. They fixed it and went over the bike and it cost me 25 bucks...well worth it. So my advice would be to try to assemble the bike yourself, do as much as possible and you will definately learn something that may well be valuable if you break down somewhere. You will have a much better understanding of the bike. And then if you have any problems take it to an lbs. The lbs won't fault you for not buying a bike there in fact they all asked where I got it and how much I paid. Everyone said, "wow great components, good deal".


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Wrong thread lol


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## tequilasunset (Aug 26, 2014)

jimmac23 said:


> I assembled my Lurch with only a multitool. I have plenty of tools but thought I'd see how far I could get since I carry that with me on the bike. I had to play with the brakes since I've never assembled discs but with a little help from youtube... Then i had a problem getting the deraileurs adjusted (real close but just not perfect). So before wasting too much time, took it to my lbs (Per****ance Bike) and they determined that my derailer hanger was slighly bent. They fixed it and went over the bike and it cost me 25 bucks...well worth it. So my advice would be to try to assemble the bike yourself, do as much as possible and you will definately learn something that may well be valuable if you break down somewhere. You will have a much better understanding of the bike. And then if you have any problems take it to an lbs. The lbs won't fault you for not buying a bike there in fact they all asked where I got it and how much I paid. Everyone said, "wow great components, good deal".


I will give it a shot... I have wrenched on my cars from VW's to american muscle. I was also a copier tech for a copier/printing company for 13 years. I have the basic tools and sockets, nothing fancy... oh yeah, hammers and duct tape too


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## jimmac23 (Oct 27, 2013)

tequilasunset said:


> So where on line is a good place to buy said accessories and stuff? I would like a rear rack, I just need to figure out fitment for all the various items. I wouldn't think i could go to Wally World or a LBS and say I ride a Boris, hook me up with some bling!


Your lbs doesn't care where you bought the bike as long as you want to buy parts from them. They make more money from accesories than from selling new bikes. And if they are smart, they will treat you right in the event that you want to upgrade and maybe buy a bike from them in the future. Now perhaps if you had been test riding their bikes and wasting their time, they might have a slight attitude...

I always check Amazon.com first for parts and accesories, then I might go to the sellers website for more info or to compare prices. I've also bought parts from JensonUSA who seem to have excellent customer service and free shipping over $50. Bottom line, shop around, the internet is a wonderful thing!


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## jimmac23 (Oct 27, 2013)

tequilasunset said:


> I will give it a shot... I have wrenched on my cars from VW's to american muscle. I was also a copier tech for a copier/printing company for 13 years. I have the basic tools and sockets, nothing fancy... oh yeah, hammers and duct tape too


and zip ties


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## tig321 (Oct 5, 2014)

I'm looking to buy my first fat bike through BD, but I see they don't ship to canada. looks like they reccomend myus.com? How did you Canadians get your bike here and what did it cost? I would really appreciate any advice on the subject, it's the only thing left holding me up.

I've tried using online shipping calculators but cannot find any dimensions for the fat bike boxes, so I'm left geussing. even that would be helpful.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

tig321 said:


> I'm looking to buy my first fat bike through BD, but I see they don't ship to canada. looks like they reccomend myus.com? How did you Canadians get your bike here and what did it cost? I would really appreciate any advice on the subject, it's the only thing left holding me up.
> 
> I've tried using online shipping calculators but cannot find any dimensions for the fat bike boxes, so I'm left geussing. even that would be helpful.


I am just a east of Toronto. I am having my night train shipped to the ups store in Lewiston, NY. They will store for $5 per week. I will drive across the border to get it once it arrives. Declare at border and see if they charge me the hst. I'm going to us for business in November. If it works out, I'll fly out of Buffalo and hopefully customs will waive me through on a $1200 purchase with my $800 exemption?


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## dcel312 (Nov 22, 2008)

*Anybody know which is the accurate measurement?*



OnThaCouch said:


> I don't know WHEN the change happened :eekster:. I read a post here that the geo charts changed and went back and looked at them and they were different :skep: (at least for the 15". I ordered...it is now a 15.5").
> .


On the Sturgis/Nightrain information page it lists the 15.5 size as having an ETT of 23.4 inches however, in the geometry chart is lists the ETT as 575.28mm or 22.6 inches. Which is the accurate measurement? The page info or the geo chart? Anybody confirm? Thanks


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

neons97 said:


> I am just a east of Toronto. I am having my night train shipped to the ups store in Lewiston, NY. They will store for $5 per week. I will drive across the border to get it once it arrives. Declare at border and see if they charge me the hst. I'm going to us for business in November. If it works out, I'll fly out of Buffalo and hopefully customs will waive me through on a $1200 purchase with my $800 exemption😀


+1, except substitute Ottawa for Toronto and Ogdensburg for Lewiston. Oh... And Lurch for Night Train, as well as the Boris I got for the GF. ;-)

I'd been in the US for a week just before they arrived so I was able to use the $800 exemption and ended up getting the HST waived by the nice (and flirty) CBSA lady. There's a 13% duty on complete bikes, but if they try that one on, you can argue that it's just a box of parts, since it's not assembled. No duty on bike parts...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

*Front hubs are not convertible to Bluto thru axle as advertised, you need an adaptor.*

Do not believe the advertising:

"Front Hub easily converts to 15mm Thru-axle. No conversion kit needed.
"

The Novatec hubs supplied with the non suspended QR hubs are not convertible without changing the hub ends to 15mm.

These ends are NOT currently available anywhere in the USA.

I have received an email from Larry at Bike Direct, he wrote that they were "on order", but he gave no delivery date.

Novatec USA has not responded to emails, though I did talk to Estaban by phone once; he also has not returned my emails.

I have an expensive Bluto sitting on my work bench collecting dust, this is starting to piss me off!

If I had known that the parts were not included, I probably would have looked at a different bike...

If anyone has the desire to add a Bluto to their Bikes Direct bike, please call Bikes Direct and Novatec, maybe we can light a fire under their backsides:

NORTH AMERICA
Novatec Wheels US, LLC.
"Esteban"
EMAIL: [email protected]
TEL: +1 714.585.5469

BikesDirect:
"Larry"
[email protected]


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

I'm not saying you are wrong, or even that I fully understand the situation. But I do not think US availability really applies in this situation.


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

BikesDirect new FS Fatty coming out soon....Looks interesting

Listed at the bottom of their Fatbikes page.

https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/gravity/fat-bikes/quigley-fs-fatbike-21.jpg


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It was just a matter of time 

Having already purchased the Lurch, what I'm looking for is a low cost frame and shock, but I'd buy the whole enchilada if it was fairly priced.



skywardx said:


> BikesDirect new FS Fatty coming out soon....Looks interesting
> 
> Listed at the bottom of their Fatbikes page.
> 
> https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/gravity/fat-bikes/quigley-fs-fatbike-21.jpg


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

So a Boris X9 needs something different axle wise for a Bluto and it's not available. That sucks.


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Looks a bit odd...


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Cody01 said:


> So a Boris X9 needs something different axle wise for a Bluto and it's not available. That sucks.


Bluto comes with a through-axle.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Cody01 said:


> So a Boris X9 needs something different axle wise for a Bluto and it's not available. That sucks.


Dis is correct.

Start calling and emailing, it might speed em' up...


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## tequilasunset (Aug 26, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> It was just a matter of time
> 
> Having already purchased the Lurch, what I'm looking for is a low cost frame and shock, but I'd buy the whole enchilada if it was fairly priced.


Well crap, wonder if I can call off my x7 order? I like the looks of this.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

skywardx said:


> BikesDirect new FS Fatty coming out soon....Looks interesting
> 
> Listed at the bottom of their Fatbikes page.
> 
> https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/gravity/fat-bikes/quigley-fs-fatbike-21.jpg


Nice, and I am glad BD is taking the leap into full squish.

But personally I am hoping for a rigid Ti frame or bike. 170mm/135mm with a carbon fork. That would make a nice complement to my Lurch.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

skywardx said:


> BikesDirect new FS Fatty coming out soon....Looks interesting
> 
> Listed at the bottom of their Fatbikes page.
> 
> https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/gravity/fat-bikes/quigley-fs-fatbike-21.jpg


Looks hideous, I would rather pay the extra cash for a salsa bucksaw


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## skywardx (Aug 3, 2014)

rex615 said:


> Nice, and I am glad BD is taking the leap into full squish.
> 
> But personally I am hoping for a rigid Ti frame or bike. 170mm/135mm with a carbon fork. That would make a nice complement to my Lurch.


Agreed


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## danny31292 (Jul 20, 2011)

sml-2727 said:


> Looks hideous, I would rather pay the extra cash for a salsa bucksaw


I trust Bikes Direct to copy a geometry and make a hard tail. I don't trust their engineering or quality for a full suspension.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

skywardx said:


> BikesDirect new FS Fatty coming out soon....Looks interesting
> 
> Listed at the bottom of their Fatbikes page.
> 
> https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/gravity/fat-bikes/quigley-fs-fatbike-21.jpg


EEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!! What decade is that linkage design stolen from?


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Yeah, that thing has a long list of stuff wrong with it. The little length of shift cable housing going from the front to rear triangle isn't going to work. That super high pivot will make for some jackhammer pedaling.


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> Dis is correct.
> 
> Start calling and emailing, it might speed em' up...


Done. Emailed both. I'm a little upset over this. We'll see if they are willing to do something or this thing will go to Craigslist and I'll buy a house name bike with a Bluto already in place.


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## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)

Looks exactly like a santa cruz superlight 29er, but with fat tires.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I wish they would mount the shock up on the top bar like the superlight cause then there's at least one spot for a water bottle holder. Otherwise I'd be pretty stoked to have one. I feel like they should be sending us prototypes to test for them. I would totally test the **** out of that bike.


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## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)

Yeah, I would too. Debating if it's worth putting a bluto on my lurch. Think I'm just going to end up with a trek farley eventually unless something similar is released by cannondale or giant. (depending on how much I like snow riding)


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Utahbikemike said:


> Looks exactly like a santa cruz superlight 29er, but with fat tires.


Ehhh... some very important details are different. Notice the pivot on the Superlight is in line with the chain. Notice the BD isn't. Lots of chain growth on bumps and reverse bob(suspension will rise with each pedal stroke). Notice how the cables on the Superlight are curved into an elbow where they meet the rear triangle. This creates a nice controlled bend point when the suspension moves. The BD is just going to crush them. (Oh, and pet peeve here, why does BD still insist on interrupted shift cables?)

There are a lot of details that go into making a full suspension bike work well. Few of BD's FS bikes look to have the obvious details sorted. That leaves me really worried about the not obvious ones (pivot axles for example). Don't get me wrong, I like BD. My first bike came from them and my Night train is currently circling the globe. But their FS bikes leave room for improvement.


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## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)

I realize it's not a copy of a superlight, but my first thought was that it looked like one. Same color and all.


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

Called the Gravity Quigley. Who is Quigley a knock off from?


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## livewr06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Well I just ordered the Night Train rigid. They didn't have my size in the Bullet with the Bluto fork. I got it with the Midnight purple which is a cool looking color.
I think i'll get a fork to put on myself later. 
What else should I think about for upgrades?


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

MaximumX said:


> +1, except substitute Ottawa for Toronto and Ogdensburg for Lewiston. Oh... And Lurch for Night Train, as well as the Boris I got for the GF. ;-)
> 
> I'd been in the US for a week just before they arrived so I was able to use the $800 exemption and ended up getting the HST waived by the nice (and flirty) CBSA lady. There's a 13% duty on complete bikes, but if they try that one on, you can argue that it's just a box of parts, since it's not assembled. No duty on bike parts...


So CBSA let you through with a Lurch AND a Boris in one load under one person's $800 exemption? That's amazing! I was thinking for sure that a $1199 (USD) purchase would exceed the $800 exemption with no exceptions for sure.

Thanks for the heads-up on the 13% duty on complete bikes. Didn't know that. Yikes...if I get hit with 13% HST and 13% Duty and 12% exchange rate, this Night Train "value" equation just went down the drain. I was prepared for 13% HST but not the 13% duty.


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## Sparkitekt (Nov 9, 2012)

neons97 said:


> So CBSA let you through with a Lurch AND a Boris in one load under one person's $800 exemption? That's amazing! I was thinking for sure that a $1199 (USD) purchase would exceed the $800 exemption with no exceptions for sure.
> 
> Thanks for the heads-up on the 13% duty on complete bikes. Didn't know that. Yikes...if I get hit with 13% HST and 13% Duty and 12% exchange rate, this Night Train "value" equation just went down the drain. I was prepared for 13% HST but not the 13% duty.


Just be sure to dress your best that day, have a few mints handy, and cross your fingers & hope you get the flirty agent. I could totally take the ride w you. I have a way w the ladies.


----------



## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

car_nut said:


> Ehhh... some very important details are different. Notice the pivot on the Superlight is in line with the chain. Notice the BD isn't. Lots of chain growth on bumps and reverse bob(suspension will rise with each pedal stroke). Notice how the cables on the Superlight are curved into an elbow where they meet the rear triangle. This creates a nice controlled bend point when the suspension moves. The BD is just going to crush them. (Oh, and pet peeve here, why does BD still insist on interrupted shift cables?)
> 
> There are a lot of details that go into making a full suspension bike work well. Few of BD's FS bikes look to have the obvious details sorted. That leaves me really worried about the not obvious ones (pivot axles for example). Don't get me wrong, I like BD. My first bike came from them and my Night train is currently circling the globe. But their FS bikes leave room for improvement.


Ditto. Here are the comments I posted on their FB post:

I was hoping for more. Single-pivot designs can work, but the pivot location here is way too high. It is a mid-90s design with all the associated problems.

1) Pedal kickback while climbing and hitting bumps. 
2) Swingarm pivot attachment to the frame is only on the downtube which may result in twist from cornering. It should be attached to the seat tube as well to resist the lateral loading. 
3) Rear derailleur cable routing may result in ghost shifting during suspension compression because of the flex in the "S-bend".

I applaud the effort, but this could have been much better for a first effort with more review of existing designs and functionality. I guess this follows their other Gravity brand FS designs. But I think they would be better to do one more like the Motobecane brand FS designs.

If they do a MB version, I would recommend updating it to be a true FSR design (with the swingarm pivot between the chainstay and droput) since the patent has expired. That design offers improved performance over designs with the pivot between the seatstay and dropout.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

I think if I had to advise a company of major structural issues, I wouldn't buy their bike even if they made the changes.

Like others have said, I trust BikesDirect to make a cheap hardtail or perfectly copy an existing design, not make something from scratch.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Like I said before I am more than willing to test it for them


----------



## Brad G. (Oct 8, 2014)

*FB4 Pro Matte Black!*

Super stoked!Just pulled the trigger on this today. BD doesn't give pics of it in the Matte Black( unless you look at the Matte on the Elite) but if it looks like this Diamant Mammut( which it will, but supposedly with blue strips)then I am happy! Cheers!


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

I receive BD newsletter, for some reason they lift a quote from the twentynine inches site referring to the Blutoed Lurch. Maybe Ted has one stashed. LOL

AVAILABLE: NEWEST FAT BIKES FROM Motobecane USA
NEW Motobecane Lurch FS Bluto, Front Suspension CrMo Fat Bikes

Rockshox Bluto Forks, SRAM X9 20 Speed, BB7 Disc Brakes, 
Vee SnowShoe 4.5 Inch Wide Tires, 
150 front 190mm Rear (Room 5 inch tires or more?)
Thru-Axle front Wheelset, HOT NEW Bluto-Capable frame

Available in Blue (Shown), Yellow (Shown), Gray 

twentynineinches.com says: "...spectacular, was how well the fat tires and the (Rockshox Bluto) fork worked together to create an suspension feeling rivaling the best 29er trail full suspension bikes...makes the already fun ride just sooo much more fun!" 

Ingeniously simple. Giant tires = more control in loose conditions.“Float” over snow and sand… fastest bikes you’ll ever ride on mud, bogs, deep sand, snow. Great convo makers and super smile-generators


Pedaling


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

nothing wrong with single pivot. i would buy it in a heart beat if the price is right


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

akacoke said:


> nothing wrong with single pivot. i would buy it in a heart beat if the price is right


They advertised on Facebook for $1499 if you send them a message on facebook to pre-order. If it does perform well, that sounds like a smoking deal considering the Night Train Bullet has similar components.

FACEBOOK POST:

Factory has planned a shipment of these awesome Fatbikes around February/Early March 2015.

Only $1499 for Limited Time and Only for PreBook Customers

Specs will be: 
FORK : ROCKSHOX BLUTO 120MM W/THRU AXLE 
REAR SHOCK : ROCK SHOX MONARCH R. 
B.B. PARTS : SRAM GXP100 100x1.37 
CRANKS : SRAM FC-X5 22T/36T x175MM 
BRAKE : HYDRAULIC DISC BRAKE W/180MM ROTOR. 
F/DER : SRAM FD-X7 2x10 HIGH DIRECT MOUNT. 
R/DER : SRAM RD-X9 GRAY CAGE 
SHIFTER : SRAM SL-X7 TRIGGER 20-SP BLACK. 
TIRES : 26"x4.0 VeeRubber VEE8 120TPI Folding Bead

Sizes: 15, 17, 19, 21inch / Colors: HotOrange, Purple, HotGreen

Want one? Message us on Facebook with your email address, size and color desired. We'll let you know if you are one of the Lucky Few (Special price will go up when sales goals are met, Sizes will sell out)

More Details will be posted as available here:
Save Up To 60% Off Fat Bikes and Fat Mountain Bicycles from bikesdirect.com FREE Ship 48 States


----------



## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Is the Gravity FS really that bad? I was going to jump on it but after reading the negative posts I'm holding back.


----------



## homeslice (Jun 3, 2008)

the components on the motos are far better. you'll likely replace parts and upgrade them on the gravity to costs far higher before you reach the value of a moto.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

watermonkey said:


> EEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!! What decade is that linkage design stolen from?


There is absolutely nothing wrong with a high single pivot, on a short travel bike, especially on a tire clearance challenged one.

When was your car suspension designed?

And you seriously want some multilink or axle pivot insanity on a fat bike bike.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

danny31292 said:


> I trust Bikes Direct to copy a geometry and make a hard tail. I don't trust their engineering or quality for a full suspension.


Yeah, better use some other catalog rebadging company that hides the source and charge you double.


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

dcel312 said:


> On the Sturgis/Nightrain information page it lists the 15.5 size as having an ETT of 23.4 inches however, in the geometry chart is lists the ETT as 575.28mm or 22.6 inches. Which is the accurate measurement? The page info or the geo chart? Anybody confirm? Thanks


I actually did email them about this, as i was concerned as well. The real measurement (effective top tube, from seat post to stem) is 23.4, and the horizontal top tube (the actual tube itself) was 22.6. That was their response to me.

thats a bit long for me, as i normally prefer 22 max! The site is strange though, they also list "golddigger" as a color, though it's not available when you order.


----------



## Marna_Kazmaier (Sep 11, 2014)

After much time and research, THIS is the Fatty I thought best for me. My husband bought it for me last night. We already have the tracking number....Yes. I LOVE the right green and style!

I am having trouble uploading a photo. Here is the link:

Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes and Mountain Bikes - MTB - Gravity 2015 Bullseye Monster


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I finally got a response from Novatec USA:

"Hi Ben,

You do need a conversion kit to change to 15mm or 20mm thru axles. You need to pull out the QR end caps (if they are to tight use the QR and push them out from the opposite side) and the new adapters push into the the hub. The cost for the adapters is $18.00"

Total cost for ends and shipping was $25.

I am going to ask BikesDirect to cover the cost as these parts were supposed to be included with the bike.


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## EJ (Aug 29, 2005)

NicoleB said:


> I actually did email them about this, as i was concerned as well. The real measurement (effective top tube, from seat post to stem) is 23.4, and the horizontal top tube (the actual tube itself) was 22.6. That was their response to me.
> 
> thats a bit long for me, as i normally prefer 22 max! The site is strange though, they also list "golddigger" as a color, though it's not available when you order.


Nicole - who at BD did you get an email from?
I emailed them as well after reading dcel312's post and asked which was the correct ETT number - the 23.4 in the description, or the 22.6 in the chart?
I got a reply from "Chris" saying they checked with Motobecane and made the correction on the site - i.e. they changed the description to 22.6.

Now I'm really confused....

btw - the golddigger color was dropped when they got a sample from the factory and didn't like it. They added the grey at that time.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

GT_guy said:


> Nicole - who at BD did you get an email from?
> I emailed them as well after reading dcel312's post and asked which was the correct ETT number - the 23.4 in the description, or the 22.6 in the chart?
> I got a reply from "Chris" saying they checked with Motobecane and made the correction on the site - i.e. they changed the description to 22.6.
> 
> ...


I was one of the first ones to note the change in geo charts on the Night Train/Sturgis thread. Initially, when ordering, I asked why the 15" and 17.5" were only 5mm apart in ETT. The 15" seemed very long at 593mm. They confirmed that the 593mm was correct because of the larger diameter tires, there would be toe overlap with anything shorter. Then a month or so later, looking at the geo charts, they updated the sizes to 15" and 17.5". And also changing the 15" ETT to 575mm, which is too short for me. I emailed them, and they confirmed that the new 575mm ETT is correct. So I changed my order to 17.5".


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Man, I emailed them because I knew people would be switching to 17.5, hopefully they take that to heart if there's extras!


----------



## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

GT_guy said:


> Nicole - who at BD did you get an email from?
> I emailed them as well after reading dcel312's post and asked which was the correct ETT number - the 23.4 in the description, or the 22.6 in the chart?
> I got a reply from "Chris" saying they checked with Motobecane and made the correction on the site - i.e. they changed the description to 22.6.
> 
> ...


well now i'm confused too! i really hope 22.6 is the correct number. i looked up the Fatboy's specs (similar bike) and they mention 22.6, but dont say whether that is horizontal or effective. I jumped on a friend's medium fatboy and it felt long, but he also had low flat bars.

this email was a month ago, from "chris"
Hello,

The Actual TT is 22.6" and the Effective TT is 23.4"
Up until the 1980's, most high quality bicycles were built with the top tube exactly horizontal. Newer frame designs commonly have sloping top tubes, higher at the front. This is particularly common in smaller frame sizes. For frames with slopping top tubes the Effective Top Tube measurement would be the "Horizontal" Top Tube length.

Thanks,
Chris


----------



## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

neons97 said:


> I was one of the first ones to note the change in geo charts on the Night Train/Sturgis thread. Initially, when ordering, I asked why the 15" and 17.5" were only 5mm apart in ETT. The 15" seemed very long at 593mm. They confirmed that the 593mm was correct because of the larger diameter tires, there would be toe overlap with anything shorter. Then a month or so later, looking at the geo charts, they updated the sizes to 15" and 17.5". And also changing the 15" ETT to 575mm, which is too short for me. I emailed them, and they confirmed that the new 575mm ETT is correct. So I changed my order to 17.5".


exactly! i had no idea why the medium and small were practically the same TT length. i'm normally a XS, so this is a big deal to me. 
as for toe overlap, thats not entirely true, my XS pugsly was tiny and yes, if i had my foot on the pedal to far forward, my shoe would fart the wheel, but they could easily get away with 22.6 unless you had sasquatch feet.


----------



## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

NicoleB said:


> well now i'm confused too! i really hope 22.6 is the correct number. i looked up the Fatboy's specs (similar bike) and they mention 22.6, but dont say whether that is horizontal or effective. I jumped on a friend's medium fatboy and it felt long, but he also had low flat bars.
> 
> this email was a month ago, from "chris"
> Hello,
> ...


Yeah I'm pretty sure Effective TT == Horizontal TT... they are both measures of how long the top tube would be if it was horizontal instead of sloped. By itself, this measurement sorta gives more information on reach than an actual tube measurement would give.

Specialized Fatboy geometry measurements show Horizontal TT, not actual.

Medium Horizontal TT: 603mm = 23.74in
So it does appear, as expected, that the Motobecane is imitating the Fatboy.


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

oh sorry yes, sometimes they interchange "horizontal" with "actual". i'm more concerned with overall reach.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

has anybody found somewhere to source the weinmann HL-80's? I want to build up a second wheelset for my gravity and im looking to spend as little as possible.


----------



## SundayRiverRider (Oct 29, 2008)

You can find them on Amazon. You can also order the whole wheelset from Bike Island for $299.00.


----------



## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

If I was buying new wheels I'd get better ones that what comes with it.


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Axe said:


> There is *absolutely nothing wrong *with a high single pivot, on a short travel bike, especially on a tire clearance challenged one.


I beg to differ as several of us have already pointed out some of the negative aspects of this design. Some may not be concerned with these issues, but they are real attributes of the design that many people find less than desirable.



Axe said:


> And you seriously want some multilink or axle pivot insanity on a fat bike bike.


Single-pivot designs were very prevalent in the early days of MTB full suspension bikes. They have all but disappeared and been replaced by the very types of bikes you criticize. That happened because we realized the shortcomings and replaced that design in nearly all cases with a superior design that performs better in most ways.

The new Salsa Bucksaw and several of the new full suspension fat bikes shown at Interbike 2014 feature multi-link designs and will perform well despite your claim of "insanity". There are many reasons why multi-link bikes are the norm rather than the exception on regular full suspension bikes today.

There is not that much different about a larger size tire that it somehow throws out everything we have learned about MTB full suspension over the last 20 years.


----------



## Marna_Kazmaier (Sep 11, 2014)

Does anyone ride a BD Gravity Bullseye 29PLUS?

We bought and are waiting for our DB Gravity Bullseye Monster, in GRREN! And after reading all the Reviews I am thinking about buying the 29PLUS, after checking out our Monster first of course. I was looking at the Trek Marlin 5, but think I will wait. Just wondered what you all think of the 29PLUS <?????>?


----------



## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

ou2mame said:


> If I was buying new wheels I'd get better ones that what comes with it.


Me too. I'm looking to lace a sarma hub to the cheapest rim I can find (that isn't a brick like the Walmart ones). the monster comes with 50mm rims, which I like, but it can take up to an 80mm rim, so I was thinking about trying something different.


----------



## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

Utahbikemike said:


> Looks exactly like a santa cruz superlight 29er, but with fat tires.





car_nut said:


> Ehhh... some very important details are different. Notice the pivot on the Superlight is in line with the chain. Notice the BD isn't. Lots of chain growth on bumps and reverse bob(suspension will rise with each pedal stroke). Notice how the cables on the Superlight are curved into an elbow where they meet the rear triangle. This creates a nice controlled bend point when the suspension moves. The BD is just going to crush them. (Oh, and pet peeve here, why does BD still insist on interrupted shift cables?)
> 
> There are a lot of details that go into making a full suspension bike work well. Few of BD's FS bikes look to have the obvious details sorted. That leaves me really worried about the not obvious ones (pivot axles for example). Don't get me wrong, I like BD. My first bike came from them and my Night train is currently circling the globe. But their FS bikes leave room for improvement.





Chader09 said:


> Ditto. Here are the comments I posted on their FB post:
> 
> I was hoping for more. Single-pivot designs can work, but the pivot location here is way too high. It is a mid-90s design with all the associated problems.
> 
> ...


I am not an expert on rear suspension, but I think the pivot on the Quigley is at about the same location as on the superlight. Not totally sure, but isn't where the pivot is located relative to the axle that matters? I may be totally off though. The pivot on the quigley looks to be at the same height relative to the axle as the superlight. It looks high on the quigley because it has a low BB of just over 12" and tires that probably have a 29" diameter. Look how low the bb is compared to the rear axle on the quigley. If they put the pivot in line with the chain like on the superlight I would think it would cause even more chain growth due to how much higher the rear axle is compared to the BB.

As far as the pivot located on the down tube, that's where it is located on the superlight. Does the superlight have issues with the twist in cornering?

I am very curious to see what you all think about the pivot height and location on the down tube given this point of view as I have been looking into the quigley as well.

(Edit) thinking about it some more, since this is a singlepivot suspension design, if they moved the pivot down to be inline with the chain it would totally screw up the axle path since the bb is so much lower than the rear axle. The pivot needs to be above the rear axle otherwise the rear axle would would move forward and up from the start. When the pivot is placed above the rear axle the axle will first move backwards and up, and then eventually forward and up if there is enough travel in the suspension. That is why pretty much all single pivot designs have the pivot located above the rear axle. DW and Horst links are the only designs that I think can have a main pivot lower than the rear axle.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Chader09 said:


> I beg to differ as several of us have already pointed out some of the negative aspects of this design. Some may not be concerned with these issues, but they are real attributes of the design that many people find less than desirable.


Except you have completely ignored the fact that this is a fat bike, where large part of suspension action is in tires, so you can, and should, use an entirely different shock tune, that there are engineering concerns with clearance that other designs will struggle with, and the fact that, yes, single pivot suspension, especially for a short travel bike with modern shocks works just fine.



Chader09 said:


> Single-pivot designs were very prevalent in the early days of MTB full suspension bikes. They have all but disappeared and been replaced by the very types of bikes you criticize.


Except they did not. They are still made, and they still ride well.

Most of the alleged differences in performance are either marketing bullsh.t or completely inconsequential for enjoyment of your ride. And fat tires are an entirely different ballgame, so criticizing a design choice by looking at a photo is asinine.



Chader09 said:


> If they do a MB version, I would recommend updating it to be a true FSR design (with the swingarm pivot between the chainstay and droput) since the patent has expired. That design offers improved performance over designs with the pivot between the seatstay and dropout.


I own Nicolai and Rotwild with FSR, and they are neither stiffer, no ride significantly better than, say Santa Cruz Heckler. They do behave better under braking, and they are more plush, but that would not be an issue for a fat bike, that got traction in oodles and small bumps taken care of by tires.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

Chader09 said:


> I beg to differ as several of us have already pointed out some of the negative aspects of this design. Some may not be concerned with these issues, but they are real attributes of the design that many people find less than desirable.
> 
> Single-pivot designs were very prevalent in the early days of MTB full suspension bikes. They have all but disappeared and been replaced by the very types of bikes you criticize. That happened because we realized the shortcomings and replaced that design in nearly all cases with a superior design that performs better in most ways.
> 
> ...


Single pivot suspension have in no way disappeared. Single pivot is a very common rear suspension design and works very well.

Even the bucksaw you pointed to is a single-pivot rear suspension design, so not sure why you are talking sh1t about singlepivots and then pointing to a bike with a singlepivot design as being so much better than singlepivot suspension designs. Doesn't make any sense.

Pretty much, if the bike doesn't use a Horst pivot or a DW link, it's a single pivot.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

http://www.norco.com/news/tag/single-pivot/

If anyone wants a run down of basic fs setups this explains the drawbacks of each pretty well.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

singletrackmack said:


> I am not an expert on rear suspension, but I think the pivot on the Quigley is at about the same location as on the superlight. Not totally sure, but isn't where the pivot is located relative to the axle that matters?


Ideally the pivot is right around being in line with the chain for whichever front ring you want to optimize for pedaling. This is usually the middle ring. What you're trying to do is use the chain tension to counter act the forces causing the suspension to compress when you pedal. This is called anti-squat. The downside is that the opposite happens when you hit a bump. The suspension compressing causes the chain to be pulled which is called pedal kickback.

Now, there is nothing wrong with single pivot designs. From an axle path and antisquat standpoint, most Horst links, DW Split Pivot, Trek ABP, and any of the "faux bar" suspensions are essentially identical to a single pivot. The reason Specialized bikes are considered poor pedaling is because they chose a low pivot to minimize pedal kickback. Trek, and more so DW Split Pivot, went with a higher pivot to minimize pedal bob. Where these designs improve things are braking and/or allowing the ability to better alter the leverage ratio during compression.

So, what's my beef with the Quigley? It has a massive amount of anti-squat tuned into it. To the point that it will likely bob upwards when you stab the pedal. Current shocks aren't meant to deal with this. The pedal thresholds are on the compression circuit, not the rebound. Tons of rebound damping just makes a suspension a one hit wonder. It'll essentially lock under repeated hits like going through a rock garden.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

ou2mame said:


> single pivot | News « Norco Bikes
> 
> If anyone wants a run down of basic fs setups this explains the drawbacks of each pretty well.


I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Faux-bar/Horst/single pivot/Split have almost identical axle paths, anti-squat, pedal feedback, bump compliance etc _assuming the same front pivot location._ The big difference is:
- Split/Horst results in less brake squat
- Single pivot gives less opportunity to adjust leverage ratio over travel

Here is a plot of axle path that compares faux-bar vs fsr vs mini-link. The Horst deviates from a faux-bar/single pivot by half a millimeter.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dTbev_VXy...600/Specialized+Enduro+29''+2013_AxlePath.gif


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Ohh. Charts and graphs. When you can just ride a bike and decide how it feels. 

This topic has been beaten to death, all these suspension variants are for sale and being ridden daily with not a f.ck given, and none of that has practical relevance to a fat bike, when half of your suspension action is in the tires. 
But charts and graphs.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

axe said:


> and being ridden daily with not a f.ck given,


qft


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## Brad G. (Oct 8, 2014)

*Love it!*








Got my first ride on it last night! I'm hooked! FB4 Pro


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## Marna_Kazmaier (Sep 11, 2014)

Congrats! And have fun! We would LOVE to see more photos.

I can not wait for my Gravity Bullseye Monster to arrive!


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## Brad G. (Oct 8, 2014)

Thanks man! I will post as the upgrades come


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

Marna_Kazmaier said:


> Does anyone ride a BD Gravity Bullseye 29PLUS?
> 
> We bought and are waiting for our DB Gravity Bullseye Monster, in GRREN! And after reading all the Reviews I am thinking about buying the 29PLUS, after checking out our Monster first of course. I was looking at the Trek Marlin 5, but think I will wait. Just wondered what you all think of the 29PLUS <?????>?


I doubt anyone has the Gravity 29Plus yet. From testing a Krampus and an ECR, the
Format is a winner. 
Please post how you like the Bullseye Monster. Other buyers seem pleased for the price. I have a 29er with the exact same drive components, X4. It has been pretty good for the first 2600 miles. Maybe takes a little more adjustment, every 600 miles or so, but not hard to do yourself.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Everything needs adjustment. I've worked on plenty of x4 derailleurs and they seem hold up ok. The lowest I've owned is an x5 and its going the job on my boris. I prefer shimano though, but its not terrible or anything.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

17.5 Jet Black Night Train ordered. Excited!


----------



## omnivore (Nov 29, 2013)

Looking for a fatbike for the upcoming Canadian winter- and of course Framed and BD are my top contenders.
To help future-proof the bike, I want tapered headset and 150/190 axles widths with thru axles.
And I am leaning heavily towards the BD offerings with Bluto, because really, it's like getting the fork half price. I can see myself also riding this bike alot in the summer, so the Bluto would be nice.
Problem is, I am short (5'4", 29" inseam, 160 lbs).....and small sizes are runing out.
The only way I can get what I want from BD is a rigid forked Sturgis, Night Train, or Lurch.......or a Bluto Lurch. I like the Lurch the most from an appearance standpoint, but the included brakes are way shittier than the Sturgis, and especially the Nighttrain.
Also, being steel rather than aluminum, how much more will a Lurch weigh, than a Sturgis/Nightrain?


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## Brad G. (Oct 8, 2014)

I own both of Avids DB3 Hydro Brakes and Avid BB7s cable brakes and I feel that my BB7s are the exception to the rule as far as Hydros being better than cables. Maybe I need to give my DB3s a little longer to break in but at this point the BB7 win. The Guide brakes are supposed to be killer but not sure that Dracos are better than BB7s


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## Ufdah (Sep 9, 2012)

I agree with Brad, for brakes I have had XT's (hard tail Stache 8), X9 Trail (5" Spider 29C), and BB7's (Lurch) and honestly the BB7s are right up there performance wise. On my fat bike I actually saw mechanical brakes as an advantage. No accidental cutting of hydraulic hoses or sticky/iced up calipers. At least with the BB7's you have a chance of fixing them trail side, with hydro's you're hosed... 
Literally


----------



## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

*Gravity Bullseye Monster PRO Bluto Fork FatBike*

This looks SWEET! SALE $1099.95 (List $2899)

Save Up to 60% Off Rockshox Bluto Fatbikes










Frame: Tapered Head Tube, ALLOY 6061 FRAME, W/DISC MOUNT, TIG WELD, replaceable rear derailleur hanger, H2O bosses, T/T-35MM, S/T-31.8MM, D/T-44M, Rear Rack SeatStay Brazeons, 170mm symmetrical rear
Fork: ROCKSHOX BLUTO W/THRU AXLE, ALLOY BLACK CROWN, BRACE AND BLADE
Crankset: LASCO Aluminum 22T / 36T ALLOY BKx175MM
Bottom Bracket: LASCO 100x1.37
Pedals: VP BLACK PLASTIC BODY W/STEEL BLACK CAGE
Front Derailleur: SRAM FD-X7 2x10 HIGH DIRECT MOUNT CL-DDM 34.9 CLAMP+ADP-DDM-100MM
Rear Derailleur: SRAM RD-X7 SILVER CAGE
Shifters: SRAM SL-X5 TRIGGER 20-SP BLACK
Cassette/Freewheel: 11-36T-10 speed
Chain: KMC X-10 STEEL NP/NP+CL-566R LINK
Hubs: ALLOY BLACK W/ThruAxle 15mm front, 170mm rear (symmetrical)
Spokes: 14G STEEL BLACK W/BRASS NIPPLE
Rims: 26"x32H WEINMANN HL-80 WIDTH 80MM W/BIG HOLES, ALLOY BLACK
Tires/Tubes: VEE RUBBER 26"x4.0 VEE 8 72TPI
Brakes: DISC BRAKE W/F:180MM,R:160MM ROTOR
Brake Levers: TEKTRO ML-520 ALLOY BLACK LEVER W/ALLOY BLACK CLAMP
Headset: VP-A68E BLACK W/M-1D ALLOY BLACK CAP
Handlebar: Aluminum W:700MMx9 DEGREES, ALLOY BLACK
Stem: ALLOY 6061 EXT:80MM(15"~17")/90MM(19")/100MM(21")x7 DEGREES, ALLOY BLACK
Tape/Grip: WTB BLACK/GRAY KRATON
Saddle: WTB SPEED V SPORT SE, BLACK
Seat Post: Micro Adjust 350MM, ALLOY BLACK aluminum
Seat Post Clamp: ALLOY SEAT CLAMP
Sizes: See pull down
Colors: See pull down


----------



## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

omnivore said:


> Looking for a fatbike for the upcoming Canadian winter- and of course Framed and BD are my top contenders.
> To help future-proof the bike, I want tapered headset and 150/190 axles widths with thru axles.
> And I am leaning heavily towards the BD offerings with Bluto, because really, it's like getting the fork half price. I can see myself also riding this bike alot in the summer, so the Bluto would be nice.
> Problem is, I am short (5'4", 29" inseam, 160 lbs).....and small sizes are runing out.
> ...


Not much more, most of thr weight is in the wheels and tires.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

sml-2727 said:


> Not much more, most of thr weight is in the wheels and tires.


Chinese carbon wheels could make a big difference? Thought of it as an upgrade in the future since the wheels I know for sure are heavy. I was gonna just go tubeless for now. Tires that heavy as well?and 1*10 to help save more weight.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Im not to hung up about the weight of the bike, your not going to break any records on one. Just ride it and have fun.


----------



## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

Anyone know/heard anything on when BD is expecting their latest shipment in? 

The last info I got was an Oct 7th email saying they'd arrive in Dallas October 27th-Nov 10th.


----------



## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Bring on the snow.


----------



## tequilasunset (Aug 26, 2014)

burnedthetoast said:


> Anyone know/heard anything on when BD is expecting their latest shipment in?
> 
> The last info I got was an Oct 7th email saying they'd arrive in Dallas October 27th-Nov 10th.


In already and on the truck this morning for my Boris


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## Essox (Dec 10, 2013)

That looks like a bud and lou on there. Any rubbing and did you have to suffle the cassette for chain clearance in the lowest gear? Been thinking of doing the same thing but spend a lot of time in the granny for deep snow.


----------



## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

tequilasunset said:


> In already and on the truck this morning for my Boris


Judging by the dates, I think he's talking about the newest models. If so, I too await more information.

How long has the "Early Black Friday" gimmick sale been going on? There's a $300 single speed fat bike...


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## lethalsvt (Nov 21, 2012)

Saw that early black Friday sale too..only on 2 bikes now there. Wonder if they will put the others on sale. 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## lethalsvt (Nov 21, 2012)

These bikes seem like such great deals. Why would anyone who buys a fat bike spend more when they essential are the same??

Saw a specialized fat bike for $2700 at my LBS and was like wtf?!?! Is it really that much better? I'm guessing hell no....

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


----------



## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Essox said:


> That looks like a bud and lou on there. Any rubbing and did you have to suffle the cassette for chain clearance in the lowest gear? Been thinking of doing the same thing but spend a lot of time in the granny for deep snow.


Indeed they are bud and lou! The front has plenty of clearance. The back is close but no rubbing. I don't spend much time in granny. Just steep climbs and sections of deep or loose snow. I can't wait to do a winter with these bad boys. Last winter was a total blast. I feel like a kid again waiting for the snow.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

lethalsvt said:


> These bikes seem like such great deals. Why would anyone who buys a fat bike spend more when they essential are the same??
> 
> Saw a specialized fat bike for $2700 at my LBS and was like wtf?!?! Is it really that much better? I'm guessing hell no....
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


Your guess is right. Love my BD fat. Biked all winter is snow and loved it. Great bike.


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

AndrewZorn said:


> Judging by the dates, I think he's talking about the newest models. If so, I too await more information.


Sturgis is what I'm waiting for.


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## lethalsvt (Nov 21, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> More trail worthy?? No, they are all fat bikes, there's some component differences, but they are all designed and function more or less the same. The only significant component differences that affect ride quality are having a Bluto and tire size. A Bluto is going to make for a better handling bike, less bounce, more comfortable. The narrower tires are going to speed up handling and reduce pedaling effort.
> 
> The only geometry difference that can be "known" without having all of the bikes lined up for test rides is that the Lurch has a sliding drop out that allows the rider to change wheel base. This is why I bought the Lurch and so far it has been a good choice. I am running some Missions now, have some Floaters waiting in the wings, and because I went to 4" tires I can run the wheel all the way forward, which has made the bike "twitchy" and quite nimble.
> 
> Last night I swapped stems, installed a 45mm, slammed, using a 35mm ride 760mm bar, it was so much fun


The first part I.understood..sounds like the Bluto if you can afford it is a no brainer.

As far as "wheel base", what do you mean? I didn't consider the Lurch because it had a steel frame and I assumed that made it heavier.

And narrow tires..on a fat bike riding in sand or snow, isn't wider better? Couldn't you go over more terrain easier?

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## lethalsvt (Nov 21, 2012)

Does the bluto fork on these lock out so if I want to ride 30-40 miles on a paved summer rail trail it will be better? Thinking of using this year round with maybe just a tire switch

Also, what about the full suspension gravity one..does it lock out as well? One thing I notice on long paved flat trails with my full sus bike now is it is slow because of all the pedaling force dispersed between moving forward and into the suspension

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

lethalsvt said:


> These bikes seem like such great deals. Why would anyone who buys a fat bike spend more when they essential are the same??
> 
> Saw a specialized fat bike for $2700 at my LBS and was like wtf?!?! Is it really that much better? I'm guessing hell no....
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


Shhhh dont let them see this from the spec forum, they will insist there bike is far better.


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

Re: Gravity w/ Bluto: is it just me, or does the fork angle on the Gravity look a little off? Just comparing it visually to the Sturgis and Lurch on the same page.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

lethalsvt said:


> Does the bluto fork on these lock out so if I want to ride 30-40 miles on a paved summer rail trail it will be better? Thinking of using this year round with maybe just a tire switch
> 
> Also, what about the full suspension gravity one..does it lock out as well? One thing I notice on long paved flat trails with my full sus bike now is it is slow because of all the pedaling force dispersed between moving forward and into the suspension
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


Energy dispersed in the suspension is minimal compared to rolling resistance, even on regular tires.

In one paper I just looked up (http://courses.k-state.edu/fall2005/KIN/KIN630/bicyclesuspensionresart.pdf) worst case of 6 watts or so was quoted, when standing up, with under 1w typical. Tires are in the 20 to 40 watts range at normal speed? I have seen other measurements about in the same range. I have not seen fat tires rolling resistance on flat pavement measured, but I would guess they are quite a bit worse at that. Something else makes you slow, maybe changing pedal stroke ? Same study quoted shows that from physiological point of view, riding suspended bicycle decreases your energy spent, despite suspension losses.


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## lethalsvt (Nov 21, 2012)

Axe said:


> Energy dispersed in the suspension is minimal compared to rolling resistance, even on regular tires.
> 
> In one paper I just looked up (http://courses.k-state.edu/fall2005/KIN/KIN630/bicyclesuspensionresart.pdf) worst case of 6 watts or so was quoted, when standing up, with under 1w typical. Tires are in the 20 to 40 watts range at normal speed? I have seen other measurements about in the same range. I have not seen fat tires rolling resistance on flat pavement measured, but I would guess they are quite a bit worse at that. Something else makes you slow, maybe changing pedal stroke ? Same study quoted shows that from physiological point of view, riding suspended bicycle decreases your energy spent, despite suspension losses.


Interesting. So having a front suspension does NOT slow you down that much on long straight rides? 
I'm guessing the fat bike that can accommodate a skinny 29" tire would be ideal for road rides. Can any of the BD bikes do this better than the others? Or can all fat bikes easily accept a 29" 2" tire??

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

You need a second wheelset, but yes they can all clear a 29'' wheel.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

lethalsvt said:


> Interesting. So having a front suspension does NOT slow you down that much on long straight rides?
> I'm guessing the fat bike that can accommodate a skinny 29" tire would be ideal for road rides. Can any of the BD bikes do this better than the others? Or can all fat bikes easily accept a 29" 2" tire??
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


Rims are 26", if anything a narrower 40 or 50 mm rim could accept something like a 26" big apple 2.3. But then you will be dragging you bottom bracket on pavement. But there are smooth fat tires out there, pump them up above 15 and cruise along a beach. 
As poster above said, 29 wheeler will work, but you would need to make one on fat hubs. I think it is easier to get a second cheap bike.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

You can buy 29er wheels for the sturgis and run it 29+


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## PerraHunter (Nov 3, 2013)

lethalsvt said:


> Interesting. So having a front suspension does NOT slow you down that much on long straight rides?
> I'm guessing the fat bike that can accommodate a skinny 29" tire would be ideal for road rides. Can any of the BD bikes do this better than the others? Or can all fat bikes easily accept a 29" 2" tire??


I have the Minnesota 2.0, which came with a complete 29er wheel set. I can tell you this, fat tires at trail pressures ridden on the road suck. It feels like you are towing someone. Pumped up to 20-25 psi, the fat tires (Vee Missions) are quite acceptable for 20-30+ mile rides. They are fine on fun, social rides like the Charles River Greenway or Capital Crescent/Rock Creek Loop. Now, put on the skinny tires (Innova brand 2") pumped up to 60 psi, and the decrease in pedaling effort is dramatic. As a side benefit to the skinny tires, you can actually coast down hills without slowing down!

I don't know why anyone would want to have only one bike, but if you did, a fat bike with an extra skinny wheel set would work.


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## lethalsvt (Nov 21, 2012)

PerraHunter said:


> I have the Minnesota 2.0, which came with a complete 29er wheel set. I can tell you this, fat tires at trail pressures ridden on the road suck. It feels like you are towing someone. Pumped up to 20-25 psi, the fat tires (Vee Missions) are quite acceptable for 20-30+ mile rides. They are fine on fun, social rides like the Charles River Greenway or Capital Crescent/Rock Creek Loop. Now, put on the skinny tires (Innova brand 2") pumped up to 60 psi, and the decrease in pedaling effort is dramatic. As a side benefit to the skinny tires, you can actually coast down hills without slowing down!
> 
> I don't know why anyone would want to have only one bike, but if you did, a fat bike with an extra skinny wheel set would work.


Really ? The Minnesota 2.0 comes with the extra wheelset? I'll have to check it out.

Reason I want one bike is for space reasons and plan on upgrading my mountain bike anyway. so to me makes sense that if I'm buying a fat bike, maybe pay a little more, kill 2 birds with one stone, and get a fat bike that can replace my MB as well

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

lethalsvt said:


> These bikes seem like such great deals. Why would anyone who buys a fat bike spend more when they essential are the same??
> 
> Saw a specialized fat bike for $2700 at my LBS and was like wtf?!?! Is it really that much better? I'm guessing hell no....
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk





sml-2727 said:


> Shhhh dont let them see this from the spec forum, they will insist there bike is far better.


It's unreasonable to ask whether it is $___ better, there's no such thing. Try telling someone who bought the Walmart fat bike that the $1500 Night Train Bullet is 5x better.

This is a cheap bike guys. It's a great value, has good components, and a frame that is supposedly pretty quality. I'm not buying the Specialized, either. But to simply look at both and laugh at the idea of the Specialized is absurd. It has lots of improvements, and buying from a US company (I know not US built, oh well) in a local bike shop does help, and that doesn't come for free. Don't forget, you're buying a copy. The imitator will always be able to provide the product for cheaper. Without the Fatboy, the Sturgis/Night Train might not even exist.



Axe said:


> Energy dispersed in the suspension is minimal compared to rolling resistance, even on regular tires.
> 
> In one paper I just looked up (http://courses.k-state.edu/fall2005/KIN/KIN630/bicyclesuspensionresart.pdf) worst case of 6 watts or so was quoted, when standing up, with under 1w typical. Tires are in the 20 to 40 watts range at normal speed? I have seen other measurements about in the same range. I have not seen fat tires rolling resistance on flat pavement measured, but I would guess they are quite a bit worse at that. Something else makes you slow, maybe changing pedal stroke ? Same study quoted shows that from physiological point of view, riding suspended bicycle decreases your energy spent, despite suspension losses.


Even if that's true (it seems really low, but I haven't done a study), the difference is there exists a lockout solution. There isn't so much a button to eliminate rolling resistance. Same reason people spend big money on all sorts of components that "only save ___ Watts". The lockout is significant and worth caring about.


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## lethalsvt (Nov 21, 2012)

AndrewZorn said:


> It's unreasonable to ask whether it is $___ better, there's no such thing. Try telling someone who bought the Walmart fat bike that the $1500 Night Train Bullet is 5x better.
> 
> This is a cheap bike guys. It's a great value, has good components, and a frame that is supposedly pretty quality. I'm not buying the Specialized, either. But to simply look at both and laugh at the idea of the Specialized is absurd. It has lots of improvements, and buying from a US company (I know not US built, oh well) in a local bike shop does help, and that doesn't come for free. Don't forget, you're buying a copy. The imitator will always be able to provide the product for cheaper. Without the Fatboy, the Sturgis/Night Train might not even exist.
> 
> Even if that's true (it seems really low, but I haven't done a study), the difference is there exists a lockout solution. There isn't so much a button to eliminate rolling resistance. Same reason people spend big money on all sorts of components that "only save ___ Watts". The lockout is significant and worth caring about.


I definitely think a lockout would be worth it. Especially on long rides. Do you know if the bluto has some sort of lockout?

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

lethalsvt said:


> I definitely think a lockout would be worth it. Especially on long rides. Do you know if the bluto has some sort of lockout?
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


Yes, and I've used it. What I'm still unsure of is the remote lockout. I haven't seen one installed on a bike. Is the remote lockout switch sold separately? Or does the fork need to be ordered with that option? Will we get a remote lockout with these bikes? Not sure, but I don't mind reaching down. 2x brake cables and 2x shift cables and a remote dropper post switch is already enough.


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## pspycho (Aug 31, 2005)

AndrewZorn said:


> It's unreasonable to ask whether it is $___ better, there's no such thing. Try telling someone who bought the Walmart fat bike that the $1500 Night Train Bullet is 5x better.
> 
> This is a cheap bike guys. It's a great value, has good components, and a frame that is supposedly pretty quality. I'm not buying the Specialized, either. But to simply look at both and laugh at the idea of the Specialized is absurd. It has lots of improvements, and buying from a US company (I know not US built, oh well) in a local bike shop does help, and that doesn't come for free. Don't forget, you're buying a copy. The imitator will always be able to provide the product for cheaper. Without the Fatboy, the Sturgis/Night Train might not even exist.


^^THIS.

A Bikes Direct Bike will have a much longer "life" than a Dolomite. Better components from the start, more upgradeability, etc.

I looked long & hard @ the BD Boris X9 and Sturgis/Sturgis Bullet before I made an informed decision to get the Specialized Fatboy. Why did the Fatboy win? I wanted:

The Carbon Fork
120TPI 4.6" and light tires
30lbs Bike Weight out the door
The awesome support from my LBS (incl warranty assistance)
That (to me) is worth double the price of a Sturgis.


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## PerraHunter (Nov 3, 2013)

PerraHunter said:


> I have the Minnesota 2.0, which came with a complete 29er wheel set. I can tell you this, fat tires at trail pressures ridden on the road suck. It feels like you are towing someone. Pumped up to 20-25 psi, the fat tires (Vee Missions) are quite acceptable for 20-30+ mile rides. They are fine on fun, social rides like the Charles River Greenway or Capital Crescent/Rock Creek Loop. Now, put on the skinny tires (Innova brand 2") pumped up to 60 psi, and the decrease in pedaling effort is dramatic. As a side benefit to the skinny tires, you can actually coast down hills without slowing down!
> 
> I don't know why anyone would want to have only one bike, but if you did, a fat bike with an extra skinny wheel set would work.


OK, for what it's worth; Rode the fat bike with the Vee Missions on a 24 mile road/bike path ride yesterday. Pumped the front to 31 and rear to 36 psi. IMO this is too hard. The ride was down right painful going over those short, sharp bumps that you only get on paved bike paths. Not to mention that traction in the few dirt/gravel sections was almost nil. Curb drops are more comfortable on my (real) Motobecane touring bike. I'm not sure the marginal improvement in rolling resistance is worth the harsh ride.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

AndrewZorn said:


> It's a great value, has good components, and a frame that is supposedly pretty quality.


Where is the catch?



AndrewZorn said:


> Don't forget, you're buying a copy.


Yes, if you buy Specialized you are buying from a company that started by stealing a design and outsourcing it to Asia. There is absolutely nothing original in their fat bikes either. And if you care about local shops, Specialized is well known for driving them out of business.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Axe said:


> Where is the catch?


There's no 'catch', the BikesDirect bikes are of lower quality. The tires, rims, cranks, and who knows how many other components are not as good as the Specialized. You don't have a local shop to help you pick out the right size, make sure everything is assembled correctly, and help you with issues. Is your post serious, or are you just being facetious? Or worse, actually suggesting the BD bike is as good as the Specialized in every way?



Axe said:


> Yes, if you buy Specialized you are buying from a company that started by stealing a design and outsourcing it to Asia. There is absolutely nothing original in their fat bikes either. And if you care about local shops, Specialized is well known for driving them out of business.


Yeah, okay, sure. I'm not a huge Specialized fan either. But you cannot for a moment act like BD is doing much work or engineering. Their bikes are near direct ripoffs of other companies' work. Lesser of two evils.

I can't believe you guys. I'm buying a BD bike too, because I'm cheap. But don't feel so self-righteous and assume Specialized buyers are suckers who don't know how to use the internet.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

AndrewZorn said:


> There's no 'catch', the BikesDirect bikes are of lower quality. The tires, rims, cranks, and who knows how many other components are not as good as the Specialized. You don't have a local shop to help you pick out the right size, make sure everything is assembled correctly, and help you with issues. Is your post serious, or are you just being facetious? Or worse, actually suggesting the BD bike is as good as the Specialized in every way?


Yes, I am suggesting that BD bikes are as good as Specialized component for component and weld for weld. And I really do not want anybody in a local shop mucking around with my bikes, ever.



AndrewZorn said:


> Yeah, okay, sure. I'm not a huge Specialized fan either. But you cannot for a moment act like BD is doing much work or engineering. Their bikes are near direct ripoffs of other companies' work.


They are not ripoffs in any sort of a way. They are catalog frames with standard quality components, priced as such. All the necessary engineering is done by catalog manufacturers, and they are plenty good at that. It is a frigging bicycle.


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## pspycho (Aug 31, 2005)

Axe said:


> Yes, I am suggesting that BD bikes are as good as Specialized component for component and weld for weld. And I really do not want anybody in a local shop mucking around with my bikes, ever.
> 
> They are not ripoffs in any sort of a way. They are catalog frames with standard quality components, priced as such. All the necessary engineering is done by catalog manufacturers, and they are plenty good at that. It is a frigging bicycle.


To each his own. 

The Specialized Fatboys (initial run) had some issues with the rear axles and bottom brackets freezing. I WANT my LBS to take care of that warranty claim for me and install the replacement parts (for free).

I know that some of the BD bikes shipped with cables routed incorrectly and some suffered shipping damage, cross threaded parts, etc. BD gives you a credit for your troubles. That works for others - just not me. (I have built several FS MTB's from scratch BTW and am comfortable wrenching.) I trust my LBS as they have some big skillz and the owner's son fabricates his own label steel frames. They have my back and are my advocate to the big S.

This thread boils down to what's important to you or what do you define as value. Again, to each his own.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

I think what it boils down to is if you want to save 1000 bucks or more for a bicycle because of its warranty.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Axe said:


> Yes, I am suggesting that BD bikes are as good as Specialized [...] It is a frigging bicycle.


Well, this is no longer a rational discussion, I'm done.

For the record, at least be reminded that *I did buy the Night Train Bullet*. But I know I'm cheaping out, and that the lack of dealer support, Samox cranks, cheap rims, etc all means it is _worth it to me_ to cheap out. It's a lesser model to the Fatboy Pro. But it will be the first fat bike I own so I didn't want to invest $4200 in a Specialized. I won't be trying to tell my friends it's _just as good as_ a Fatboy Pro.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

AndrewZorn said:


> There's no 'catch', the BikesDirect bikes are of lower quality. The tires, rims, cranks, and who knows how many other components are not as good as the Specialized. You don't have a local shop to help you pick out the right size, make sure everything is assembled correctly, and help you with issues. Is your post serious, or are you just being facetious? Or worse, actually suggesting the BD bike is as good as the Specialized in every way?


While this may be generally true for Bikes Direct, the BD Night Train does not have inferior tires or cranks vs. the Fatboy. The cranks are the same Samox cranks as the Fatboy. In fact, the Night Train actually has even better cassette and multiple times better brakes (SRAM Guide RS vs. 3 model old Deore's). The only thing of obviously lower quality are the rims. Fatboy seems to be using a DT rim vs. the Weinnman. The Fatboy hubs are most likely made by Wheeltech/Joytech/Novatech/etc...which supplies a large majority of OEM hubs in the world. Otherwise Specialized would be widely marketing "DT hubs" or "DT internals" or something of the like.

In my perspective, the real benefit to the Specialized is that you get a shop who's built it and a shop who back's it in case you run into an issues. Whether Night Train or Fatboy, I would be changing bar, grips, post and stem, so to me, they're all cheap throw-away items regardless of brand. But the Specialized ones may be of marginally higher quality, or at least slightly lighter weight.

The only real question is if the Night Train frame is any good. Fork should be good, as it's made by Kinesis, and looks virtually identical to the aluminum 150mm forks used by Rocky Mountain, Felt and others using a 150mm Aluminum fork other than paint colour. I doubt there's too many manufacturers making suspension-corrected, aluminum 150mm thru-axle forks right now...all looking the same. However, just because something comes out of the same factory, doesn't mean it is of the same material or build quality.


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## pspycho (Aug 31, 2005)

sml-2727 said:


> I think what it boils down to is if you want to save 1000 bucks or more for a bicycle because of its warranty.


Incorrect.

I covered that earlier. The bike I paid $1,000 more for also has:
- A carbon fork
- High quality, light weight, 4.6" 120TPI tires. (BTW, it is a fact that Specialized bought their own machine to manufacture those tires as the other existing machines capable of producing fat bike tires were full on production capabilities.)
- 30lb. weight out the door for 10x2 speed, disc brakes, etc. (What BD bike weighs that out the door?)


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Not arguing at all, but I was using the Fatboy Pro as reference, because it's the stock Bluto model. Race Face cranks. Sram X1 cassette.
Specialized Bicycle Components

It's $4200. I will spend $1500. Price to fun ratio for a novelty bike is why I did it. The bikes are not equal.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

AndrewZorn said:


> Well, this is no longer a rational discussion, I'm done.
> 
> For the record, at least be reminded that *I did buy the Night Train Bullet*. But I know I'm cheaping out, and that the lack of dealer support, Samox cranks, cheap rims, etc all means it is _worth it to me_ to cheap out. It's a lesser model to the Fatboy Pro. But it will be the first fat bike I own so I didn't want to invest $4200 in a Specialized. I won't be trying to tell my friends it's _just as good as_ a Fatboy Pro.


No one is comparing this to a Fatboy Pro

A $1199 Night Train is most comparable to the $2500 Fatboy Expert... Each model will have an advantage or disadvantage in components. Specialized uses cheap Sunrace cassettes and 3-model old Shimano hydraulic brakes. Bikes Direct uses a Samox Crank (same crank found on a base Fatboy...so can't be THAT bad for the Specialized fans lurking around) and lower quality and heavier Weinmann rims. Basically...Night Train has better drivetrain and brakes. Fatboy has better crankset and wheels. Frame and Fork...no one knows as the Night Train Frame/Forks aren't out yet, so it's purely speculation.

The edge goes to Specialized in components as brakes and cassettes are easily/cheaply replaced, but wheel/rims are not.

So if the better wheelset, carbon fork and dealer support is worth the $1300/108% price premium over the BD Night Train to you, go for it. Buy it and enjoy. All those Fatboy riders are out riding while us Night Train/Sturgis pre-orderer's are still waiting for ours to arrive.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Wait, you are saying the Night Train Bullet isn't as nice as a Fat Boy Pro.? Really??? Hard to believe that anyone would think otherwise - the price difference is $2801 (less than the price of a Surly Ice Cream truck - MSRP $2400). I would hope the Fat Boy is miles and miles ahead, but I just don't see it. It is a really nice bike I am sure. I test rode a base model fat boy. It was nice, and the sticker was $2699. Twice the price of the Night Train + some and they are very close in terms of component spec. Anyone who thinks the BD frames are junk have not had one. I have a BD 29er I bought as a frame and it is every bit as nice as the Santa Cruz and Trek frames I have built. 

Not bashing anyone who buys a Fat Boy. At least you are out there riding- I just think it is over priced, even more so than most already over priced fat bikes.


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## pspycho (Aug 31, 2005)

neons97 said:


> No one is comparing this to a Fatboy Pro
> 
> A $1199 Night Train is most comparable to the $2500 Fatboy Expert... Each model will have an advantage or disadvantage in components. Specialized uses cheap Sunrace cassettes and 3-model old Shimano hydraulic brakes. Bikes Direct uses a Samox Crank (same crank found on a base Fatboy...so can't be THAT bad for the Specialized fans lurking around) and lower quality and heavier Weinmann rims. Basically...Night Train has better drivetrain and brakes. Fatboy has better crankset and wheels. Frame and Fork...no one knows as the Night Train Frame/Forks aren't out yet, so it's purely speculation.
> 
> ...


I'm tracking with you on _some_ of this. Still confused if there are only marginal differences, then why is the Night Train Bullet a hefty 37lbs?

First Ride: 2015 Motobecane NightTrain Bullet Fatbike | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog

_"My test rig-without pedals-weighs about 37 pounds."_

I know the original test bike had double-walled vs. single-walled rims. The Bluto adds about 1lb or so of extra weight vs. a standard fork. So?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I don't believe in that review they actually weighed the bike "about 37" is a pick up the bike and guess weight. That was also a pre-production bike - and BD is known for using heavy bars and seatpost to cut costs. 

I am very curious to see what the final bikes end up tipping the scales at. Not that I care much - I weigh 240# so bike weight is a little important to me but I am more concerned with reliability. Lightweight and broken doesn't do much good. I have broken a bunch of weight weenie stuff in my day - including a carbon frame on my first ride on a new bike - Circa 1993 Trek 9800.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

Destr0 said:


> I just think it is over priced, even more so than most already over priced fat bikes.


Even the Night Train's are over-priced...for BikesDirect standards. Any bike with the Night Train spec's would be going for a lot less if it were not "fat". I think the price relationship of 29erHT to the Fat version is pretty similar whether it's Motobecane or Specialized.

Clearly the volume is still low, component prices are still (relatively) high, shipping undoubtedly costs more, and the market is willing to bear the higher price.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

pspycho said:


> I'm tracking with you on _some_ of this. Still confused if there are only marginal differences, then why is the Night Train Bullet a hefty 37lbs?
> 
> First Ride: 2015 Motobecane NightTrain Bullet Fatbike | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog
> 
> ...


I've got a spreadsheet breaking down the weight of every single component. Some based on assumptions obviously, but I believe an XL NightTrain Bullet will come in 36lbs instead of the stated 37 pounds. Here's why:

- Prototype had double wall rims. Based on the best weight relationship of single-to-double-wall rims I could find, I assume the single walls will shave about 125g per rim, so 250g total
- XL: Should be worth about 1/2 lb. No manufacturer claims their weight based on the XL size. They all base it on a S, or at best, their M size.
- Guide RS brakes vs. Alivio 447's: probably 50-grams per end, so about 100 grams

So total of around 1.25 lbs is my guess.

Plus...we don't know if he weighed the bike with his bottle cages (100g) and the EggBeater Pedals (275g) = another 3/4 lb.

So based on this reviewer's estimate, the final bike could be upto 2 lbs lighter...but I'll go conservative and call it 1lb lighter at around 36lbs...which is not unrealistic when the Rocky Mountain Blizzard, set-up similarly, is 35lbs out of the box...but with a 1x set-up and slightly lighter Turbine Cranks and lighter Mulefut Rims.

So why sub 30lb Fatboy Expert vs. 36lb Night Train: (BTW...not all Fatboy Experts ended up being sub 30lbs...likely due to manufacturing tolerances)

1.) Fork: Carbon 135mm fork vs. 150mm Bluto = approx. 1200-1300G difference
2.) Light Tubes: Specialized uses light tubes around 350G. The NightTrain will likely use thick and heavy 500-600g tubes. So difference of 150-250 per wheel = 300-500g total.
3.) Expert uses double-butted spokes = 100g savings??
4.) Rim Tape??? Early reports on Bikes Direct fat rim tape is 140g each! A lot can be saved here. Maybe 100g savings?
5.) Cockpit components are definitely going to be heavier...probably by 1/2 lb (75g bar, 100g post, 50g stem)
6.) Tires...the GC 4.6 are a touch lighter than the Snowshoe 4.5. But the Snowshoe's have a larger lug, which may be better for snow (GC's are no slouch from what I read).

This brings us to about 30.5 lbs. So being conservative and padding the estimates above, even if it was 31.5 lbs adjusted, maybe the frame is 1/2 lb heavier and another 1/2 pound for components I haven't mentioned (i.e. cranks, cable length, long cage derailleur/extra links, seat collar, thru axle weight, etc.). There are the differences.

I have a medium Night Train (non-bullet) on order. With about $350 in parts (all but the cassette has arrived), I plan to be at 30.5lbs with the aluminum fork running 1x10. As long as the frame weighs about 2500g (heavy side of aluminum estimates...even heavier than some steel frame actual weights), and the fork comes in around 1200g (heavy side of estimates) I've gathered all of the real-world weights of the parts I'll have bolted to my frame and don't think I'll be off by more than 1/2 lb either way. If frame/fork weigh any less, then I'll be pleasantly surprised.

So for $1,550, I will have a bike just 1 lb heavier than a Fatboy Expert, but have superior drivetrain in every component (all X9/XT level), superior brakes, full carbon cockpit, saddle to my liking, slightly knobbier tires and an extra $1,450 in my pocket. I give up the slight extra volume of the 4.6" GC tire. And definitely have a lower grade - yet acceptable-to-me quality - wheelset. I'm torn on the crankset...the upgrade is just too much $$$ for either weight savings or any perceived real-world benefit. So I'm going to just slap on a 30T NW ring and ride it for the winter first.

I figure when a 150x15 chinese carbon fork is readily available for about $200 shipped in another year or so, I can drop another 500-600g / 1 - 1.25 lbs.


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## trailwerks (Aug 24, 2007)

Hey folks. Anyone know if the decals are stickers or paint?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

trailwerks said:


> Hey folks. Anyone know if the decals are stickers or paint?


I think they are stickers, but painted over with clear. So, not easy to remove if that is your idea.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

There's gotta be a way to easily remove it no?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Media blast and powder coat would remove the stickers. ;-)


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Lol without having to repaint! .


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## lethalsvt (Nov 21, 2012)

I'm all about a good fat bike..whether it be a BD or Specialized. But after reading numerous posts, if I can pay 250 for a Dolomite or 350 for a Bullseye Monster, 1250 less than a night train bullet, 2500 less than a Specialized, and have fun on it (that is the purpose right?), then why the heck not. 

I mean..it will go forward when I pedal..obviously not as smooth or graceful as bikes 10 times as much. And if it sucks so bad that it breaks when I pedal or the tires just blow up, then I return it and get my money back. 

Problem with anything..there is always something better. It's like this with anything. 

I definitely think you get what you pay for. But for me, maybe just having a cheap fat bike to mess around with here and there like the Dolomite (or Bullseye Monster which seems like an acceptable entry level fat bike)..why not.

At least until the inflated fat bike prices come down.

Just my o2

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## lethalsvt (Nov 21, 2012)

lethalsvt said:


> I'm all about a good fat bike..whether it be a BD or Specialized. But after reading numerous posts, if I can pay 250 for a Dolomite or 350 for a Bullseye Monster, 1250 less than a night train bullet, 2500 less than a Specialized, and have fun on it (that is the purpose right?), then why the heck not.
> 
> I mean..it will go forward when I pedal..obviously not as smooth or graceful as bikes 10 times as much. And if it sucks so bad that it breaks when I pedal or the tires just blow up, then I return it and get my money back.
> 
> ...


Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Sure there's always better, but buying the cheapest possible option is usually not the best spent money. Good luck with it though.


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## lethalsvt (Nov 21, 2012)

ou2mame said:


> Sure there's always better, but buying the cheapest possible option is usually not the best spent money. Good luck with it though.


I agree..definitely can happen.

Just have seen multiple posts with fat bike owners in sub-$500 bikes that seem to be having just as much fun and going on similar trails. So that's one side.

I obviously have no idea personally and have never even rode a fat bike. I suppose if I tested a Fat Boy expert or any other $$ fat bike first, my impression would be biased.

I did feel the weight of the Beast and a Specialized Fat Boy and DEFINITELY a huge weight difference. That wasn't appealing..but I'm sure it will still move with some effort

I guess you never really know until you ride it..and maybe whatever one you get will be fine because not like we can go out and test all the models.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

My LBS had no issues with my choice, he even said it made sense because the price break bikes are overpriced, esp the big name brands. 

Bike shops make squat on completes, it's just too competitive. They make money on parts, accessories, and service.


I would spend big money on custom bike, probably build it myself, but to drop double the money and get minimally better rims and a branded generic frame, nah.

I'm in $1800 on my Lurch, that's with quality cranks, Floater tires, pedals, custom bar and stem,


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

lethalsvt said:


> I agree..definitely can happen.
> 
> Just have seen multiple posts with fat bike owners in sub-$500 bikes that seem to be having just as much fun and going on similar trails. So that's one side.
> 
> ...


To me it was about component compatibility. I wanted a freehub without having to lace a new hub. I wanted a crankset that can run multiple gears without having to replace it. Plus the very terrible derailleur and grip shifter on the dolo that would have to go, and tires and tubes... New brakes cause, well..The Dolo's aren't good at all.. I'm already over the price of the Boris x5 and I haven't even ridden it yet. If you want something to just tool around the neighborhood on, thats one thing. But if you want to ride out into the woods and having the gearing and quality to make it back whole, the dolo is gonna need some help with that.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

And a bluto


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I need to get me one of them


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## rocklax (Mar 30, 2010)

I can't decide on whether to spend $500 on a Gravity Monster, or spend the $700 on an FB4 Comp...$700 is my absolute ceiling.


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## lethalsvt (Nov 21, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> And a bluto


I was looking at one with a bluto..mainly to make it more comfortable hitting jumps in the summer. 
But won't a suspension fork make it harder to ride in the winter?

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Lock it out? It shouldn't though... Depends on your riding I guess.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Suspension does not make it harder to ride in the snow, the only downside would be sag, so loss of BB height or loss of energy when standing to peddle. Who stands when peddling in snow??
A fork will soften the ride, keep the front wheel in contact with the ground, and generally improve the riding experience. 
It's heavier, cost extra, and might not be the best for really cold conditions, other than that why would you ride any bike rigid; other than a road bike.
I lock my fork when climbing out of the saddle, it reduces travel to minimal, just like all suspension forks. A complete lock would lead to a damaged fork; there needs to be some give.


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## lethalsvt (Nov 21, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Suspension does not make it harder to ride in the snow, the only downside would be sag, so loss of BB height or loss of energy when standing to peddle. Who stands when peddling in snow??
> A fork will soften the ride, keep the front wheel in contact with the ground, and generally improve the riding experience.
> It's heavier, cost extra, and might not be the best for really cold conditions, other than that why would you ride any bike rigid; other than a road bike.
> I lock my fork when climbing out of the saddle, it reduces travel to minimal, just like all suspension forks. A complete lock would lead to a damaged fork; there needs to be some give.


Is it significantly heavier? Would it really be bad for cold climates (20-30..cold but not arctic).

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The lockout is for climbing, to reduce bob and improve efficiency. Why would you lock a fork when jumping?

I love the Bluto, it makes my fatty more comfortable and better handliing


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

20 to 30 F, above zero?

Uhhhh, that's not cold, that's cool.

Yeah, it'll be fine.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

rocklax said:


> I can't decide on whether to spend $500 on a Gravity Monster, or spend the $700 on an FB4 Comp...$700 is my absolute ceiling.


The 700 I spent on my fb4 comp has been the very best money I have spent this year. I have had a great experience with it. Zero mechanical issues even though I have pushed it way past it's normal usage envelope.









I have used it for trail riding, and it just goes over and through anything. It climbs well, it takes roots in stride.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tannr (Oct 31, 2014)

I need a fat bike for riding in the snow. I have around $800 to work with. I'm leaning toward the FB4 comp, but I noticed the boris x7 has different tires, and the gravity bullseye monster is cheaper so I might be able to upgrade it a little more. I would like to be able to upgrade the bike down the line if I get into the fat bike thing, so if upgradability is an issue with any of the bikes let me know.
I don't know a whole lot about them. All I know is that I haven't heard many bad reviews.
Any direction is appreciated


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## Marna_Kazmaier (Sep 11, 2014)

I bought the Gravitiy Bullseye Monster and it just arrived. I have only been out on it once, so far, but 'out of the box' I am pretty sure it will take on some snow trails. NONE of the Fatties are made for deep snow, if you research, they are made for packed snow such a snowmobile or ski trails.

We live waaaaaay out on the prairie, our closest neighbor is 9 miles from us. I am planning on riding my Fatty Bike in the tracks made by our truck or setting a trail with our ATV.


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## Marna_Kazmaier (Sep 11, 2014)




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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Unless you buy a bike with tires you like, factor tires into your budget. Upgrading will depend only on how much you want to spend. I have a Boris x5 and really like it. It comes with the worst tires in the lineup, but at the same time I knew I didn't like any of the tires sub 1k so I planned on buying new ones anyways. The tired that came with it are actually pretty good though. I put them on for riding on the street or light trails.


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## DeuceWheeler (Oct 27, 2014)

Bearhunter said:


> Interesting thanks for the reply Don. Now that you mention it, I do remember that conversation somewhere in this thread. I was however able to adjust the brakes with no rub.
> 
> That plastic washer still has me stumped.


Is this the LILAC color? Looks more like a darker purple than the sample lilac color they have on their site right now. I like it.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Tannr said:


> I need a fat bike for riding in the snow. I have around $800 to work with. I'm leaning toward the FB4 comp, but I noticed the boris x7 has different tires, and the gravity bullseye monster is cheaper so I might be able to upgrade it a little more. I would like to be able to upgrade the bike down the line if I get into the fat bike thing, so if upgradability is an issue with any of the bikes let me know.
> I don't know a whole lot about them. All I know is that I haven't heard many bad reviews.
> Any direction is appreciated


For snow, any of the fats with 4" tires are going to be the same. I have the FB4 Pro and love it. I started on Vee Missions which worked great in snow. I now have Surley Bud and Lou and waiting for the snow to test them. I don't ride in anything but snow on my fat...ever. Maybe a test ride but it's a pure snow bike. What I will tell you is that I kind of wish I had lower bar for stand over clearance like my Specialized Stump jumper FSR (see my AVATAR pic). The reason is because when I'm really pushing it and need to hop off my flat pedals, always at the last second, my feet land on the ground in sometimes deep snow. This can be dangerous to the family jewels and I've come close to disaster a couple of times. So if I did it again I might look for a lower bar. I don't mean an inch either. I mean like 5-6 inches of good stand over clearance. All the fats work the same in snow. It's your technique that needs to adjust. It's an entirely new way of riding and I absolutely love it. Can't wait for snow.

PS: I wanted to add that I do most of my riding on packed down trails through deep snow. If I had to blaze a new trail, it takes Hercules strength to pedal through deep powder...that's if it doesn't simply stop you. I have blazed through lightly used paths to groom them and it's a work out. So don't expect to pedal over 2 feet of powder for any length of time like BD says. That's just funny. But it may take pushing through the first time to get the trail started. I went out during a blizzard and we got 3-4 inches through my entire ride. That was the hardest workout I have ever had on a mountain bike....not counting Colorado.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

If you want lower bottom bar the Boris probably had the lowest cause of the curve


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

Tannr said:


> I need a fat bike for riding in the snow. I have around $800 to work with. I'm leaning toward the FB4 comp, but I noticed the boris x7 has different tires, and the gravity bullseye monster is cheaper so I might be able to upgrade it a little more. I would like to be able to upgrade the bike down the line if I get into the fat bike thing, so if upgradability is an issue with any of the bikes let me know.
> I don't know a whole lot about them. All I know is that I haven't heard many bad reviews.
> Any direction is appreciated


I'm gona start by saying that i have a gravity bullseye monster, and no regrets about it, but if your only goal is to ride in snow, youre going to want the widest hub and tires you can get your hands on. i'm going to recommend that if it's at all possible, you throw another $100 on your budget and go for a lurch. the build is nicer than the other bikes youre looking at, and the 190mm rear end with 4.8 snowshoes will serve you well in the white stuff.


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## Tannr (Oct 31, 2014)

Thanks guys, this helps a lot. I am planning on riding more packed trails. I'll definitely look into the lurch. Sounds like I need to read some tire reviews and decide between a $700 bike with new tires or a $1000 bike with good tires (and other upgrades) already. I think I can justify spending more.
Thanks again.


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## mrabe1979 (Sep 15, 2008)

*Dillinger 5's on FB4 pro*

Motobecane FB4 PRO with Dillinger 5's. Studded them myself. 
14 psi lightweight tubes, no rub. 
Weinmann DHL80 rear rim.
Weinmann DHL100 front rim.







Kincaid Park Alaska


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Nevermind, I guess I'm getting too antsy about shipping.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Anybody know if you can order the BikesDirect fatbikes like the Boris, Lurch, etc, with a set of 29+ wheels?

I don't want a 29+ specific frame, but I do want them for summer riding on a fat bike frame. Figured it would be cheaper to buy them all at once.


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## rocklax (Mar 30, 2010)

FB4 Comp vs Expert, is it worth the extra $100? I personally would prefer SRAM x5 over Acera, however I'd also like to know are the wheels any better that it is worth the upcharge?

Are there any other worthwhile differences. $700 was my ceiling, but if I wait a bit I can most likely scratch another $100 together.


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## Essox (Dec 10, 2013)

rocklax said:


> FB4 Comp vs Expert, is it worth the extra $100? I personally would prefer SRAM x5 over Acera, however I'd also like to know are the wheels any better that it is worth the upcharge?
> 
> Are there any other worthwhile differences. $700 was my ceiling, but if I wait a bit I can most likely scratch another
> 
> I got in on the first batch of FB4s so I have had mine for over a year. If you are going with the Fb4 I would just do the comp and upgrade yourself. I have just over 1,000 in mine now and it is better equipped and lighter than if I got the Pro. However, if I was buying now I would go for a Sturgis or Nightrain. Symetrical rear, decent tires, single wall rims and able to take 5" tires is nice.


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

has anyone gotten any emails on the status of the nightrain/sturgis bikes? It's Nov 4 and i've heard nothing yet!


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## DeuceWheeler (Oct 27, 2014)

From their facebook page:
Bikesdirect
October 30
Good Morning, Eager Fatty-Fans!

We mean Fat Bikes, of course!

We are watching the Sturgis and Night Train containers closer than any other we've had before. The ocean freight company just alerted us that they 'moved to rail'.

Our directions to forwarder are to move to our Dallas warehouses as that is quicker than going to Houston warehouse on this route (and much quicker than going to our Jacksonville warehouses).

Rail time can be as little as 2 days and as long as 7. 
We have local truckers altered that we want 'hot shot' pull and delivery. 
We will unload, sort, inspect and ship all the same day by bringing in extra help once these arrive.

All four models: Sturgis, Night Train, Sturgis Bullet and Night Train Bullet have been in high demand. 
We expect the shipment of Sturgis Bullet framesets [due Jan 15] and Sturgis Bullet & Night Train Bullet complete bikes [due Jan 31] will all sell out quickly; especially after the first load is received by customers who will pass the word along.

So, if you have even the slightest interest, we highly recommend you take a look at our hot new bikes before it's too late to snag one!


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

NicoleB said:


> has anyone gotten any emails on the status of the nightrain/sturgis bikes? It's Nov 4 and i've heard nothing yet!


They changed the original estimate to be as late as Nov 10th. I too wish they would just say _something_... they have to know more at this point. If the recent rail thing is true, it seems to me they should be shipping to your house from inside the US by the end of the week.


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

yeah, i remember the nov 10 date, i just expected they had a bit more info and would sent it out via email. sounds like the facebook update gives a bit clearer of a picture. if that was Oct 30, and it takes 2-7 days, then that is hopeful. once they ship, how long is it typically from that point?


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## DeuceWheeler (Oct 27, 2014)

Depends on where you live, it's 3 business days from Texas to MN via UPS ground.


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

awesome! thanks!


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

You will need to be there to sign for it.


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

does it need to be "me"? i'm having mine delivered to my work, but i'm also off on Friday. i dont expect it to arrive that soon. Basically, somebody will be there to sign.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

pearsth said:


> You will need to be there to sign for it.


Really?

Also, I think the outbound from Dallas map is more helpful:


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

yes, signature required!


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

bwilson said:


> yes, signature required!


Thanks for the warning, I would have been pretty disappointed to miss it.

Since we haven't received a shipping update, looks like I won't have mine by this weekend. Oh well, again.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

My ups guy didn't make me sign. I live in apt he left the bike in the stairwell next to my front door. I think it's at the drivers discretion.


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

just got an email saying nighttrains and sturgis might be shipping in the next 24 hours!


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

NicoleB said:


> just got an email saying nighttrains and sturgis might be shipping in the next 24 hours!


Woot! Woot! It's a fat bike November.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

For those who didn't get the email (yet):



> Hi, Thanks very much for your order with Bikesdirect.com. Long awaited Night Train Bullet, Night Train, Sturgis, and Sturgis Bullet are starting to land! Many pre-sold units will ship out today. *If you are receiving this email then something that you ordered will be shipping today.* Unfortunately, as these were in several assorted containers, *not all unloaded today*. Some containers were selected by U.S. customs to inspect. We have no control over customs, their timing, or work load. However, we have made it clear to our forwarder that the outstanding containers are a hot rush. As soon as we get release and delivery on the remaining Night Train Bullet, Night Train, Sturgis, and Sturgis Bullet bikes *the remaining bikes will ship at once*. Hundreds of tracking numbers on pre-sold units will be live and will show movement within the next 24 hours.
> 
> Your bike will ship with the tracking number that was sent to you after you ordered. If you don't see that email, please check your spam folder. If you have any problems with this, please let us know. The best way is to reply to this email, or you can always call us at 904-249-2453. If you don't reach us between 9-5 EST just call back as we may be on the other line with a customer.
> 
> ...


Is it just me, or do the bold parts conflict? It sounds like they tell me the bike is shipping, but that not all of them are, why would they say this? In case I ordered two, separately, and only one is shipping? I guess I'll just keep checking the tracking number...


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

...yeah, rather confusing. So...is it shipping today, or wut?

same here, i'll be eye raping my tracking number.


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## DeuceWheeler (Oct 27, 2014)

I read it as follows "If you are receiving this email then something that you ordered will be shipping today." 

Basically, you are reading the email, your order ships today. 

They haven't sent emails to those who ordered but haven't had their bikes unloaded from the crates yet..


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

are you sure? it seemed pretty automated to everybody, it didnt feel like a personal email. maybe i'm wrong.


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## DeuceWheeler (Oct 27, 2014)

I m not sure, but it wouldn't be hard to make a automated message go out to a select group of email addresses.

At any rate, best of luck to you! I hope they arrive quickly.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Sweeeeet my ups code is active. Booyah!


Just kidding. No activity. Boo


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

I ordered in July, so I expect I'll be getting the shiniest, most pristine bike, shipped to my door first. After I've been fully satisfied, y'all can clamor after the scraps remaining. I assume this is how it works, yes? 

Maybe I should take delivery day off work, so I can meet the delivery man and have plenty of time for assembly?


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Ok I guess I wasn't joking. just checked again:

Scheduled Delivery Updated To:
Friday, 11/07/2014, By End of Day

Last Location:
Mesquite, TX, United States, Tuesday, 11/04/2014


"Picked Up"


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mine updated too - Scheduled delivery 11/06 by end of day.  
I ordered mine in August, then changed to an XL on August 15th. This bike is my Birthday present (BD August 21st). When the bike comes I may have to have cake and ice cream again.


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## neons97 (Jun 11, 2013)

I ordered on July 28th. Switched from a 15.5" Night Train Bullet to regular 17" Night Train on September 18th when they changed the frame geometry/measurements on the 15.5", meaning it would be far too small.

Saw the FB post today, but did not receive the email some of you have. And no movement on my UPS tracking number either. So that email must have been selective only to those whose bikes arrived in today's container.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

I ordered a NightTrain Bullet on July 31st, changed sizes from Small to Medium on September 8th. UPS tracking hasn't been updated... bummer! I hope I didn't add any time to my order because of the size nonsense!


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

AndrewZorn said:


> I ordered (my NightTrain Bullet) July 31st, changed sizes on September 8th. UPS tracking hasn't been updated... bummer! I hope I didn't add any time to my order because of the size nonsense!


I think it is just what containers arrived and what order they got unloaded. I ordered on August 7th and changed size from L to XL on 8/15.

Sorry for those who did not get the email. I am seriously thinking of taking the day off Thursday... It is my 10 year wedding anniversary so I can earn points with the wife too.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

I got the email but my ups tracking number still shows as voided. I ordered NT Bullet on July 20.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

Destr0 said:


> I think it is just what containers arrived and what order they got unloaded. I ordered on August 7th and changed size from L to XL on 8/15.
> 
> Sorry for those who did not get the email. I am seriously thinking of taking the day off Thursday... It is my 10 year wedding anniversary so I can earn points with the wife too.


...I got the email, I should be excited that it shipped. I'm just too worried that the size change created some sort of computerized error, with the UPS tracking not updating.

I will totally take a half day whenever it's supposed to arrive. UPS delivers to me in the afternoon, so a full day would be a waste. But yes, I want to be there ready with my replacement stem, maybe a dropper post, and my tools ready to rock.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

My wife is a stay at home mom so someone will be there to sign for it regardless. I just want to get it built for riding this weekend. I am just too excited - I will no longer have to have fat bike envy every time we ride - my son has a Pugsley I bought for him about a month ago.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

AndrewZorn said:


> ...I got the email, I should be excited that it shipped. I'm just too worried that the size change created some sort of computerized error, with the UPS tracking not updating.


I switched sizes (had to switch color to get the correct size). I didn't get the email but got a call from BD asking if I still wanted to keep the color switch or wait to see if the black became available in my size.

I am concerned that I did not see a change in my tracking number with all the others here having tracking activity and a delivery date.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

I switched my order three times and kept the same tracking number throughout....back in the days of the Lurch. Now all you kids with that new fangled aluminium frame and front bouncy fork thingy are gonna need to settle down a bit, have a cup of warm bosco, and wait it out.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Destr0 said:


> My wife is a stay at home mom so someone will be there to sign for it regardless. I just want to get it built for riding this weekend. I am just too excited - I will no longer have to have fat bike envy every time we ride - my son has a Pugsley I bought for him about a month ago.


Dad of the year award goes to you man. That's sweet


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## rocklax (Mar 30, 2010)

I'm about to spend $700 at BD on a fatty!

FB4 or Boris X7, what say you all?


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## DeuceWheeler (Oct 27, 2014)

rocklax said:


> I'm about to spend $700 at BD on a fatty!
> 
> FB4 or Boris X7, what say you all?


I went back and forth and settled on the Boris X7
I like the symmetrical rear, SRAM componenets and the sloped top tube helps my low stand over height.
I also rode a Boris x7 a couple weeks ago and it felt great. I get mine tomorrow.


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

Negotiator50 said:


> I got the email but my ups tracking number still shows as voided. I ordered NT Bullet on July 20.


I got the email. I keep pressing refresh on my shipping notification but no update. Ordered NT bullet early Sep. looks like mines stopped. Email badly written as says" if you get this email yours has shipped" but then goes on to say " some have been stopped by customs" so not very clear. I'll keep trying......

has as anyone had a Black NT Bullet shipped yet?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

bennybullfrog said:


> I got the email. I keep pressing refresh on my shipping notification but no update. Ordered NT bullet early Sep. looks like mines stopped. Email badly written as says" if you get this email yours has shipped" but then goes on to say " some have been stopped by customs" so not very clear. I'll keep trying......
> 
> has as anyone had a Black NT Bullet shipped yet?


Based on some of the replies, it looks like the NT Bullets got caught up by "customs." Looks like we just have to wait a little while longer.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

Negotiator50 said:


> Based on some of the replies, it looks like the NT Bullets got caught up by "customs." Looks like we just have to wait a little while longer.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


I've seen on another thread that some white nt bullets have shipped.......all very interesting! Was yours black or white?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

bennybullfrog said:


> I've seen on another thread that some white bullets have shipped.......all very interesting! Was yours black or white?


Matte Black NT Bullet

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

Negotiator50 said:


> Matte Black NT Bullet
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Did you get the email saying yours had been shipped and they when you checked tracking number there was no change?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

bennybullfrog said:


> Did you get the email saying yours had been shipped and they when you checked tracking number there was no change?


Yup. Got that email but still no change in my tracking info. In fact, it says that the shipping number is now void. I should probably give them a call to see what's going on.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

XL Black NTB. Same story. Email, but no movement.


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

only some got stopped by customs. my bike is on the way. UPS tracking number says "in transit" and already has an arrival date.


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## VonBorakus (Sep 16, 2014)

AllMountin' said:


> XL Black NTB. Same story. Email, but no movement.


Same here, flat black large no movement.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

You guys are still waiting for those? I canceled my order months ago and have been riding my boris x9. I hope all the waiting is worth it.


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

the wait is for the bluto 

i had a pugsley, so i wasnt necessarily fatless all year, but i'm pretty excited for my new bike.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I waited because I wanted 5" fat tires and a Bluto.  It will be here for winter and that was what I wanted it for. I have now seen the light after doing some demo rides and buying my son a Pugsley - I am pretty sure I will be riding fat from now on so I wait again for a Bucksaw.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Yup for sure - the Bluto will be worth the wait.

I called them this morning and they said if your shipping isn't updated yet or very soon, then you are one of the people who has to wait. She estimated a week more. Doh!

The worst is going to be when people start posting pictures of them with their new bikes although I suppose I'd like to see some real life opinions of what we all have been waiting for.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

fripp said:


> I called them this morning and they said if your shipping isn't updated yet or very soon, then you are one of the people who has to wait. She estimated a week more. Doh!


Noooo... I too ordered a matte black NT Bullet and _still_ see no change in the UPS tracking.

EDIT: just called in myself. They said if you got the email, it is shipping... if tracking number hasn't updated yet, it's because it's going out today. Too bad that difference of a few hours still means no bike for the weekend.



sml-2727 said:


> You guys are still waiting for those? I canceled my order months ago and have been riding my boris x9. I hope all the waiting is worth it.


lol... *I bought a bike like a year ago, and I've been riding it the whole time! Suckers, hope the wait was worth it!!!*
[SUP]By the way, the bike is totally different than the one we are talking about.[/SUP]


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

fripp said:


> Yup for sure - the Bluto will be worth the wait.
> 
> I called them this morning and they said if your shipping isn't updated yet or very soon, then you are one of the people who has to wait. She estimated a week more. Doh!
> 
> The worst is going to be when people start posting pictures of them with their new bikes although I suppose I'd like to see some real life opinions of what we all have been waiting for.


Well look at the bright side - if you see stuff you don't like in the reviews and posts from the people who get their bikes while you are waiting you can cancel your order without the $100 restocking fee if you get it and return it.


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## Essox (Dec 10, 2013)

I am eager to see the reviews and actual weights for the bluto and non bluto versions. I got in on the first batch of FB4's just over a year ago and have rode the crap out of it and still happy but may need to upgrade depending on how these do.


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

fripp said:


> I called them this morning and they said if your shipping isn't updated yet or very soon, then *you are one of the people who has to wait*. She estimated *a week more*. Doh!


I have a feeling I am in the "gonna have to wait" group. No tracking number movement even though they told me on the phone that it was shipping yesterday :madman:.

It is gonna be one long week (or more) to wait. Such bike highs and lows in one day. So happy yesterday and bummed out today....:eekster:


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## geeze (May 31, 2012)

anyone have more info related to ther Sturgis Framesets that were mentioned on facebook page


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Just got this - so maybe there is hope! From the typos in the email I'd say they are working fast and furious over there!

Hi, 
Thanks for your email and order. 
Your bike did arrive, If your tracking info doe snot show any 
updates yet, it will by this evening. 
If there is anything else I can help you with, please let me know. 
Thanks again and enjoy tour new bike!
Karla


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

So who is planning on disassembling the bottom bracket to check for/apply grease? I feel like I'm going to be too excited to do anything but check the seatpost/stem/wheels/brakes. I could easily make a couple days just out of unnecessarily rebuilding the bike. The bottom bracket is a press-fit, right? So waiting for a problem to happen before servicing wouldn't be as catastrophic as threaded cups?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I was just trying to decide if I am going to crack the BB open (and headset for that matter) tomorrow when I start the build or not. I just got back from the LBS where I picked up a new stem and a couple light weight tubes.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

AndrewZorn said:


> So who is planning on disassembling the bottom bracket to check for/apply grease? I feel like I'm going to be too excited to do anything but check the seatpost/stem/wheels/brakes. I could easily make a couple days just out of unnecessarily rebuilding the bike. The bottom bracket is a press-fit, right? So waiting for a problem to happen before servicing wouldn't be as catastrophic as threaded cups?


No grease is no grease.. Replacing the bearings and races would be easier with threaded I guess, but you're still looking at replacing it if it's not greased.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

AndrewZorn said:


> So who is planning on disassembling the bottom bracket to check for/apply grease? I feel like I'm going to be too excited to do anything but check the seatpost/stem/wheels/brakes. I could easily make a couple days just out of unnecessarily rebuilding the bike. The bottom bracket is a press-fit, right? So waiting for a problem to happen before servicing wouldn't be as catastrophic as threaded cups?


If it is a press fit it will be fine. have fun and ride it.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Is the BB a sealed bearing unit? I would think they would not need any grease and should be set from the factory... I was thinking of pulling them just to check them out and put a light grease coat on the spindle.
I know all three sets of my RaceFace external BB are sealed bearings and need no grease...


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## danny31292 (Jul 20, 2011)

Please tell me the NT isn't a PF30 frame.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

Just had my UPS ticket updated and will be here by end of day Monday (10th).

Took until just now to get this, so maybe there still is hope for any of you waiting on an update. I also saw another email directly telling people their bike was stuck in customs, so if you don't get that separate email, its also probably better news. That email was on another thread in this forum:

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/motobecane-sturgis-night-train-thread-932345-10.html


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

Chased BD and got the following feedback following the misleading email notification:

Your bike did arrive. All the Fat bikes that arrived yesterday began shipping yesterday. If your tracking info does not yet show movement, it will this evening.

Checked my tracking and my NT Bullet has shipped! Due Monday. Wahoooooo!



fripp said:


> Just had my UPS ticket updated and will be here by end of day Monday (10th).
> 
> Took until just now to get this, so maybe there still is hope for any of you waiting on an update. I also saw another email directly telling people their bike was stuck in customs, so if you don't get that separate email, its also probably better news. That email was on another thread in this forum:
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/motobecane-sturgis-night-train-thread-932345-10.html


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

danny31292 said:


> Please tell me the NT isn't a PF30 frame.


I'm not sure myself, but every search result for a Samox crankset shows a PF30 bottom bracket, and the Specialized Fatboy also uses PF30...


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

danny31292 said:


> Please tell me the NT isn't a PF30 frame.


It's a BSA 100mm.


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## Hardtale (Sep 10, 2014)

*Boris X7*

Boris getting prepped. Bought some Vee H-Billies 4.25 120TPI FB light casing tires to replace the 72TPI V8's. Those should be here in a few days. Will get light weight tubes, make stem change if needed and some other doo dads like cables then see what she can do.


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

*Finally!*

Got my Sturgis Bullet yesterday after waiting what felt like 3 years... cancelled an original Boris order then thought about waiting even longer for the Boris the Brut w/Bluto but in the end stuck with the Sturgis. I love it so far! After much agonizing and analyzing of geometry and pictures compared to my current bikes, I went with the M 17.5" (I'm 6'0" with short legs) and am glad I did- a L would have been too long I think. Standover in the 17.5 is about 30.5" which is right at what I figured after doing some picture analysis of the size L demos on BDs website. (they don't include the extra height of the Bluto in their specs)

No damage out of the box, overall quality looks great. I LOVE the white with plain black lettering (but then again all 3 of my bikes are white, so maybe I'm biased). I did have to file a little off the outside corner of the rear caliper- with the 180 mm rotors the spacer puts the caliper too close to the frame to clear the pads correctly. 2 min fix with a file and it's fine now.

Have already swapped a few parts out so far, hope to eventually lose some more weight but at 36lbs stock with the Bluto (with pedals) I think that's not bad- I've had freeride bikes weigh more than that! I've got a dropper post I'm going to add which will hurt a bit but I think overall I can get the finished weight under 35 for sure.

Only bummer is that there is only room for 2 cables to be routed internally. I was hoping one was a double width port to route the brake hose inside as well, but I guess I'll just have to live with them on the outside. Honestly one of the biggest deciding factors for me in getting the Sturgis over the Boris the Brut is that the Sturgis has internal routing- more of a pain I know but it just looks so clean and sleek (as sleek as a fatback can I guess).

So far I've taken it for one little test ride and even at 36lbs it climbs like the rear wheel glued to the ground- lots of fun. Makes big rock beds feel like gravel. This is the first time I've bought from Bikes Direct and am very happy overall with the bike and the service. Hope you all get yours soon too and start having fun with them!


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## Hardtale (Sep 10, 2014)

Forks on the Boris X7 badly bent, to the point that paint stress cracked and the tubing is kinked. Can't even get the wheel on to do any fitting. Even if it did the chances of getting the disc to line up is slim.

It's odd because the box was undamaged so it makes me think the fork was bent before assembly. Same with the bad derailleur hanger, box was fine.

The shop doing the build/assembly took pics and I sent them off so I'll see what they say at BD. More concerned about this since it seems they don't always have the forks and after market parts are neither plentiful or cheap.

Sucks because I've already spent money on frame prep labor and new wheels so sending it back entirely isn't a good option.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Hardtale said:


> Forks on the Boris X7 badly bent, to the point that paint stress cracked and the tubing is kinked. Can't even get the wheel on to do any fitting. Even if it did the chances of getting the disc to line up is slim.
> 
> It's odd because the box was undamaged so it makes me think the fork was bent before assembly. Same with the bad derailleur hanger, box was fine.
> 
> ...


Odd, it should have been well packed. Maybe standard boxes do not fit fat frames and forks well? I can see how it can be knocked in without much damage to the box.


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## Hardtale (Sep 10, 2014)

Axe said:


> Odd, it should have been well packed. Maybe standard boxes do not fit fat frames and forks well? I can see how it can be knocked in without much damage to the box.


It was pretty well packed, box was fine and the foam wrap used to protect the paint wasn't damaged at all which is why the LBS didn't notice it right off the bat. So it's bit of a mystery unless they were already damaged before they were put on the frame and boxed. And this is heavy tubing, I could probably stand on the fork (without bouncing) and not bend them as bad as they are bent.


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## hartzpad (Sep 21, 2010)

lyleberry said:


> Got my Sturgis Bullet yesterday after waiting what felt like 3 years... cancelled an original Boris order then thought about waiting even longer for the Boris the Brut w/Bluto but in the end stuck with the Sturgis. I love it so far! After much agonizing and analyzing of geometry and pictures compared to my current bikes, I went with the M 17.5" (I'm 6'0" with short legs) and am glad I did- a L would have been too long I think. Standover in the 17.5 is about 30.5" which is right at what I figured after doing some picture analysis of the size L demos on BDs website. (they don't include the extra height of the Bluto in their specs)
> 
> No damage out of the box, overall quality looks great. I LOVE the white with plain black lettering (but then again all 3 of my bikes are white, so maybe I'm biased). I did have to file a little off the outside corner of the rear caliper- with the 180 mm rotors the spacer puts the caliper too close to the frame to clear the pads correctly. 2 min fix with a file and it's fine now.
> 
> ...


Thanks, can you tell me what your inseam is so I know how you fit the bike? I'm 5'11" and 33" inseam and hoping that my 17.5" will be large enough for me.


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

hartzpad said:


> Thanks, can you tell me what your inseam is so I know how you fit the bike? I'm 5'11" and 33" inseam and hoping that my 17.5" will be large enough for me.


My short legs are probably 30" or maybe 31". I really was liking the Boris the Brut since it has a lower top tube, but after all the measurements and calculations I did I figured the the 17.5" would be about all I could stand over at 30.5"- plus the sharp angle of the top tube doesn't help either. It might be a stretch standing in deep snow or sand but it should be ok.

The 17.5 should be perfect for you in my opinion- its a fairly long frame. It has right about the same ETT as my 20" 2005 Giant Trance which I really liked the fit on for a mess-around bike, but it's a bit shorter than my 2011 L Anthem X 29er and 2013 L Trance X 29er which are my trail bikes. I already put a slightly shorter riser stem on and it feels great. It has a VERY slack head angle with the Bluto but seems to ride great! I don't have much to compare it to but I'm happy with it!


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## Tannr (Oct 31, 2014)

Got my FB4 comp today and I'm glad I did. Rides great, no issues.
I got the one with the "New 2015 improvements" and I gotta say, the avid brakes work great.


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

Hardtale said:


> It was pretty well packed, box was fine and the foam wrap used to protect the paint wasn't damaged at all which is why the LBS didn't notice it right off the bat. So it's bit of a mystery unless they were already damaged before they were put on the frame and boxed. And this is heavy tubing, I could probably stand on the fork (without bouncing) and not bend them as bad as they are bent.


Having worked in a bike shop for far too long, and taken delivery of plenty of annihilated bikes, this definitely sounds like it was damaged in shipping. I've seen some pretty gnarly stuff get pulled from boxes that were in perfect condition. Cardboard is remarkably flexible, and forks are remarkably susceptible to damage when loaded improperly... Anyway, file a claim with the shipper (UPS, FedEx, whoever) to be reimbursed for the damages.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

ScaryJerry said:


> Having worked in a bike shop for far too long, and taken delivery of plenty of annihilated bikes, this definitely sounds like it was damaged in shipping. I've seen some pretty gnarly stuff get pulled from boxes that were in perfect condition. Cardboard is remarkably flexible, and forks are remarkably susceptible to damage when loaded improperly... Anyway, file a claim with the shipper (UPS, FedEx, whoever) to be reimbursed for the damages.


Quoted for truth. My box had a couple dings and a nice baseball size hole through it but not a scratch or dent on the bike.


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## PerraHunter (Nov 3, 2013)

Hardtale said:


> Forks on the Boris X7 badly bent, to the point that paint stress cracked and the tubing is kinked. Can't even get the wheel on to do any fitting. Even if it did the chances of getting the disc to line up is slim.
> 
> It's odd because the box was undamaged so it makes me think the fork was bent before assembly. Same with the bad derailleur hanger, box was fine.
> 
> ...


Bummer about your bent fork. This probably doesn't apply to your fork, but my Framed Minnesota came with a bent fork. The damage to the box was only on the INSIDE. In this case it was clearly shipping damage, from being dropped. Framed/The House took good care of me; I'm sure BD will make it right.


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## Hardtale (Sep 10, 2014)

PerraHunter said:


> Bummer about your bent fork. This probably doesn't apply to your fork, but my Framed Minnesota came with a bent fork. The damage to the box was only on the INSIDE. In this case it was clearly shipping damage, from being dropped. Framed/The House took good care of me; I'm sure BD will make it right.


They were very good w/ the derailleur hanger. My biggest concern is that they simply won't have a fork to replace it with.


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

You want some stopping power? 255mm rotor upgrade. Just saw this on a FB page.

Mountain Bike Oversize Disc Brake Rotor Kit 255mm - Front


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

this thing is sexy as hell. size small sturgis. gunmetal gray (it's actually black with sparkles). feels under 35lbs to me, but i have no scale. all i know is it feels lighter than my pug did. it's mostly together right now, but there's only so much i can do at work


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Dude that's sweet! Almost makes me regret getting the Farley


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## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

Crazy re: value. I run an After School mtnbk program for kids. Local ski/bike shop allowed me to purchase a couple basic bikes for program. Lower end small 26" and 24" for cost, $200. So, here's this thing that's made up of rubber, aluminum. cables, welding, assembly, made and manufactured from processed substances from this planet, manufactured by underpaid folks from far far away and then shipped across an ocean, shipped and delivered to me for less than a cord of split firewood. So how much more,really, is the cost of rigs we look to purchase from an internet company, much less a"recognized brand" for a thousand dollars more. Me...? A Framed 3 w/Bluto, for $1400 thru Active Junky (who returns $140 commission to me) versus a comparable Mukluk. Still waiting tho...


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

...nevermind.


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## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

Yahooo!!!


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

anyone know a trick to get those little oring spacers that you put on the ends of the hubs, to stay better? i could just see needing to take a wheel off in a dark parking lot, and those just popping off and getting lost. they pop off really easy.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

NicoleB said:


> anyone know a trick to get those little oring spacers that you put on the ends of the hubs, to stay better? i could just see needing to take a wheel off in a dark parking lot, and those just popping off and getting lost. they pop off really easy.


O ring spacers?


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

so i guess the bluto is 150mm wide, and the hub to the sturgis is 135. they ship with little spacers to make up the difference. they pop onto the hub, like little donut washers, but they fall off easily.


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## Ohfugit (Jul 10, 2009)

Got my Night Train Bullet Friday.

Sure is a nice looking bike. 
Derailleur hanger was damaged but looks ok otherwise.
Another case of, there were no holes in the box in that area.
I just emailed them We'll see how it goes.


Edit: Just got a Priority Mail tracking number for the hanger.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Maybe use nuts to make up the difference instead of what washers they give you?


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## pearsth (Mar 31, 2009)

Let me know if they get back to you on hanger, NicoleB. Same problem, emailed yesterday and no reply yet.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Put a dollup of thick grease on the o rings for the end caps. Should help them stay on better. Mine seemed to click in and didn't fall out when I shook the front wheel, but they did go on a lot easier than the end caps on my Crank Brothers wheels.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

The hub is actually 150 - you can see the conversation about it all here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/motobecane-sturgis-night-train-thread-932345-19.html


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## Onestep4me (Aug 12, 2013)

NicoleB said:


> anyone know a trick to get those little oring spacers that you put on the ends of the hubs, to stay better?


I'm going to try Red Threadlocker. Yes, I know there are no threads. If the fit is snug enough it should work fine. I had to do something similar on a set of American Classic 29r wheels.


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## tequilasunset (Aug 26, 2014)

Got my Boris some 2 weeks ago... took it to a LBS to assemble, purchased a wider seat and helmet. In that time my dad had a 911 moment which lead to home hospice care by me. He passed in 6 days. I have not had the desire to ride, still cleaning up the mess left behind and taking care of my mom. For my mental sake i am going on a weekend camping trip with a VW Bus/Vanagon group I hang with... I hope this will be the catalyst to get my crap together and ride! The bike looks to nice to just sit... BTW, no issues according to the shop, just a minor cable routing challenge.


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## NicoleB (Jul 21, 2011)

fripp said:


> The hub is actually 150 - you can see the conversation about it all here:
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/motobecane-sturgis-night-train-thread-932345-19.html


heh thanks, i was going by what somebody told me. that convo got a bit feisty with wording.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

tequilasunset said:


> Got my Boris some 2 weeks ago... took it to a LBS to assemble, purchased a wider seat and helmet. In that time my dad had a 911 moment which lead to home hospice care by me. He passed in 6 days. I have not had the desire to ride, still cleaning up the mess left behind and taking care of my mom. For my mental sake i am going on a weekend camping trip with a VW Bus/Vanagon group I hang with... I hope this will be the catalyst to get my crap together and ride! The bike looks to nice to just sit... BTW, no issues according to the shop, just a minor cable routing challenge.


Been there, and did hospice care for several months. Best thing to do is to put one leg over the top bar whether you're in the mindset or not. It really helps. Best wishes for you.


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## fripp (Nov 5, 2014)

I don't know you but I concur with bumpy - ride if you need to clear your head. I always find the great thing about riding is its so focused that i can't think about anything else while shredding, so i get a good break from my own head.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

tequilasunset said:


> Got my Boris some 2 weeks ago... took it to a LBS to assemble, purchased a wider seat and helmet. In that time my dad had a 911 moment which lead to home hospice care by me. He passed in 6 days. I have not had the desire to ride, still cleaning up the mess left behind and taking care of my mom. For my mental sake i am going on a weekend camping trip with a VW Bus/Vanagon group I hang with... I hope this will be the catalyst to get my crap together and ride! The bike looks to nice to just sit... BTW, no issues according to the shop, just a minor cable routing challenge.


Sorry to hear about your dad.


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## iCollector (Nov 14, 2012)

tequilasunset said:


> Got my Boris some 2 weeks ago... took it to a LBS to assemble, purchased a wider seat and helmet. In that time my dad had a 911 moment which lead to home hospice care by me. He passed in 6 days. I have not had the desire to ride, still cleaning up the mess left behind and taking care of my mom. For my mental sake i am going on a weekend camping trip with a VW Bus/Vanagon group I hang with... I hope this will be the catalyst to get my crap together and ride! The bike looks to nice to just sit... BTW, no issues according to the shop, just a minor cable routing challenge.


Being outdoors has always been good for my head. The hardest thing sometimes - like this - is takings that first step. When you're down, that's the hardest - once you get out there, I'm hoping nature will work some magic for you.


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## Brad G. (Oct 8, 2014)

Has anyone replaced the Crankset on an FB4 yet? If I just bought a crankset what kind would be compatible with the factory Bottom Bracket? Thanks.


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## Essox (Dec 10, 2013)

Brad G. said:


> Has anyone replaced the Crankset on an FB4 yet? If I just bought a crankset what kind would be compatible with the factory Bottom Bracket? Thanks.


I would look for cranks that come with or replace the bottom bracket anyway as my bearings are going after a year and about 1500 miles. I have heard on these forums of others replacing the BB already as well on these cranks. my chain is shot too and I am replacing the granny as well because mine has developed a bad case of chain suck as soon as I try and climb a steep hill even with a clean and lubed chain. May just be the chain but I dont want to take the chance and suck up and bend a new chain. Plus it isnt doing any favors to my chain stay. I really only ride in mud, sand and snow so it doesn't surprise me.


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## DeuceWheeler (Oct 27, 2014)

Here is the IBERA Medium bag on a Boris X7 15'' frame

Is it a perfect fit, no. Does it work fine, yes.


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## AndrewZorn (Apr 21, 2014)

I have the exact same bag, has been packed away in my closet for over a year, I'll have to check the fit on my NightTrain!


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## Tan_n (Nov 10, 2014)

Can someone tell me if this topic has been covered? I want to replace my FB4 Expert fork with a FatBoy carbon fork. Will that work before I spend $175 for the fork?


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## Chader09 (Aug 14, 2013)

No, the Specialized is a tapered fork and the FB4 is a straight 1-1/8".


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

DeuceWheeler said:


> Here is the IBERA Medium bag on a Boris X7 15'' frame
> 
> Is it a perfect fit, no. Does it work fine, yes.
> 
> View attachment 938805


The large one fits my XL Sturgis Bullet almost perfectly. Good pack to store extra layers in winter.


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## Tan_n (Nov 10, 2014)

So I read the description of the fork wrong? "Taper" in the description is for something else? *Phew* almost spent $175 on a fork I couldn't use... so, which fork would work? On-One? I think it's going for $225?


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## SundayRiverRider (Oct 29, 2008)

Tapered forks will fit the Fb4 as they have a 44mm tube. You would need to get a new headset though too.

The on one fatty fork may be too long for the Fb4, might make the front end funny. I'd just ride the fork as is and spend the money upgrading something else, like better brakes, winter tires etc


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## geeze (May 31, 2012)

has anyone seen these

BikeIsland.com - Bicycle Parts, Accessories and Clothing at Affordable Prices with Free Shipping

any idea of these are these the frames used by any of the current bikes on the BD website?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

$150 w/ shipping for a frame fork and headset - not a bad deal if you want to build a SS fat bike.  Add to it the cheap $149 wheels and other parts you are still cheaper buying the Gravity Bullsey though, but not as fun as building your own...


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## Ohfugit (Jul 10, 2009)

pearsth said:


> Let me know if they get back to you on hanger, NicoleB. Same problem, emailed yesterday and no reply yet.


Got my hanger today (they sent one from a demo bike to get me going then notified me they are sending a new one as well. Nighttrain Bullet rides nice! I like having the suspension fork.

Edit: finally got around to taking a pic.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

Looks great, Ohfugit! Is that a small? If you don't mind me asking how tall are you and what size do you ride? Trying to decide between small and medium and I am right between as I have ridden bikes between 575mm and 595mm effective top tubes (lines up basically right on the small and medium of the NTB). I'm 5'7" with a 30in inseam. Not sure if I want to run a longer or shorter stem on a fat bike with front suspension. Thoughts?

Thanks!



Ohfugit said:


> Got my hanger today (they sent one from a demo bike to get me going then notified me they are sending a new one as well. Nighttrain Bullet rides nice! I like having the suspension fork.
> 
> Edit: finally got around to taking a pic.


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

I would say go with the small- I'm 6'0" with short legs and the med is perfect. The tob tube on the bike is really high due to the Bluto- plus it angles up sharply. If you go with the Med you could always lower the Bluto to 100mm or 80mm to get more standover though. The overall measurements on my M turned out to be pretty close to 2 Size L Giants I have... great bikes though ! Having so much fun on mine!


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## Ohfugit (Jul 10, 2009)

Thanks! The bike is a medium and seems to fit pretty well 
For reference I'm 5'11 and I usually wear 29" or 30" pants inseam


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## happylandings (Apr 30, 2009)

Got my medium green Sturgis yesterday. I'm 5'9.5" with about a 32" inseam and it seems to fit perfectly. It's a great bike, very well made with welds and frame design every bit as good as the Trek Farley I've built/ridden at less than half the price. I've only ridden it around the house today but it seems to handle great. This is the best deal on a bike I've seen in a while and I highly recommend it to anyone on the fence. Mine weighs about 34.5 lbs without pedals so I hope to reduce weight by going tubeless and swapping bars, post, stem, and going with some sort of lighter rim strip or tape. Will be working on all that in the next week or so and will post results. Get one!!


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

happylandings said:


> Got my medium green Sturgis yesterday. I'm 5'9.5" with about a 32" inseam and it seems to fit perfectly. It's a great bike, very well made with welds and frame design every bit as good as the Trek Farley I've built/ridden at less than half the price. I've only ridden it around the house today but it seems to handle great. This is the best deal on a bike I've seen in a while and I highly recommend it to anyone on the fence. Mine weighs about 34.5 lbs without pedals so I hope to reduce weight by going tubeless and swapping bars, post, stem, and going with some sort of lighter rim strip or tape. Will be working on all that in the next week or so and will post results. Get one!!


Wow...that green is nice!!


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Nice! I recently ordered a NightTrain bullet. I'm the same size and also ordered a M. I've not received a confirmation email and even inquired via email but nothing.....is that normal?


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## happylandings (Apr 30, 2009)

Techspec360 said:


> Nice! I recently ordered a NightTrain bullet. I'm the same size and also ordered a M. I've not received a confirmation email and even inquired via email but nothing.....is that normal?


I got an email confirmation about 2 days after I placed my order on 10-8. Also got a couple emails with updates about the arrival of the containers and when the bikes would be sorted and shipped. Good communication in my opinion.


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## burnedthetoast (Oct 30, 2009)

Higgins17 said:


> Looks great, Ohfugit! Is that a small? If you don't mind me asking how tall are you and what size do you ride? Trying to decide between small and medium and I am right between as I have ridden bikes between 575mm and 595mm effective top tubes (lines up basically right on the small and medium of the NTB). I'm 5'7" with a 30in inseam. Not sure if I want to run a longer or shorter stem on a fat bike with front suspension. Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks!


Same height and inseam as you. Have a medium Sturgis. First good ride today and felt right at home. That said a small probably wouldn't be horrible either.


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## SundayRiverRider (Oct 29, 2008)

Took my FB4 out for it's first winter ride up in Maine this weekend. I ride at this fun, twisty, hilly, rooty, rocky trail network and it had about an inch of snow in some places and lots of wet rocks and slippery roots. The FB4 with On One Floaters just cruised right thru everything. Amazing. No slipping. I thought I might miss the full suspension I normally ride with, but the fat bike was fine. It might have actually been easier to ride on the fat bike vs my full suspension 29er. I'm not sure if it was faster, but the bike never wanted to slide out or get stuck on anything. I have it set up as a 2x9 and the gearing was perfect. All in all pretty happy with the bike, look forward to some more snow riding, hopefully later in the week.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Yeah we just got some snow here in Milwaukee but not much. If it stays around this weekend I will most definitely take my FB4 out with my new Lou and Nate tires.


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

Can't say enough good things about Mountain Trails Foundation, here in Park City Utah. They spent last night in the frigid temps packing down and turning some of our summer single tracks into official fatbike winter trails. Here's the link to the trail specs: Round Valley Snow Bike Loop by mtntrailspc at Garmin Connect - Details


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

I took my FB4 Pro with new Bud and Lou tires out in the snow yesterday and today. Yesterday I had way too little air in the tires and it really taxed my legs peddling. Like 5 psi. So today I pumped them up to 10 front and 12 back. Wow that thing really had some speed. I had to actually use my brakes. I love these tires. I have to be honest that the rear rubs the chain in granny gear but I only use it for a few seconds to climb or get through deep snow so it's no biggy. I could actually not use that gear at all and still get through anything. Just use more muscle. So yeah these tires are fricken beefy. It looks weird seeing that big a$$ front tire at first. But these tires do not slip. Only on ice. If it's snow, they grab. Climbing is a no slip experience. And don't worry if you veer off the trail, you can just peddle through the nasty stuff and get back on the trail. I never had to put my feet down the entire 8 miles today. Looking forward to some more snow this winter.


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

Hey JoeMountain,

Thanks for the snow report! I have the same bike, and my Bud rubs in the front pretty badly, even at 5 psi. I wonder if I have a bent fork?


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Does it rub both sides?


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

My bud does not rub at all. Could be your fork but maybe your rim needs truing? My back only rubs in granny. I put Surley inner tubes on both. The stock ones are buldgy.


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## finsterlee (May 2, 2013)

ou2mame said:


> Does it rub both sides?


It rubs more on one side.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

finsterlee said:


> It rubs more on one side.


Try a Surley inner tube. It may actually be your tube creating a bulge. Or is it your rim? You can test it by holding a screwdriver against the fork but very close to the rim to test for trueness.


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## cman8 (Jul 27, 2011)

finsterlee said:


> Can't say enough good things about Mountain Trails Foundation, here in Park City Utah. They spent last night in the frigid temps packing down and turning some of our summer single tracks into official fatbike winter trails. Here's the link to the trail specs: Round Valley Snow Bike Loop by mtntrailspc at Garmin Connect - Details


Awesome to hear. I just got a boris X7 and excited to ride. Stoked to go ride in PC as well as all the trails in SLC


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## bwilson (Mar 15, 2006)

Has anybody heard more about their upcoming bare frame+bluto options? Any ideas on timeline?


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## Gibster (Jun 20, 2013)

BD has the framset with Bluto up now. You can find it on the holiday sale page. $699.00


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Gibster said:


> BD has the framset with Bluto up now. You can find it on the holiday sale page. $699.00


Just saw this, and wheels on there page are 299 right now with tires. So for 1000 bucks you got it in a roller... if I did not just order my yeti I would be all over this.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

That would be a fun build


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

It would be nice if BD could source better wheels. That's the one thing that I would have liked different about the Boris X9 (that and tires). Much rather pay another $200 for those options.

Thinking tubeless and low pressure.

Just got back in from another trail ride in Dash Pt. State Park, near Federal Way Wa. Frozen leaves, lots of short steep hills and a bit of snow. It is a really nice bike. Don't think I'd ever consider changing the frameset, unless the Carbon Fairy decided to visit.

My boys are really grateful for the extra stand over height. A couple of time they almost went home crying, and would have without the extra inch.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Yeah the Boris frame with the drop bar is my favorite. I can have the reach I want, with the short stem I want, with the stand over that keeps my baby makers safe.


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## GoPlayOutside (Aug 19, 2009)

If you were going to spend 1000 on the frameset and wheels I would just spend the extra 300 more and get the complete Sturgis Bullet bike.. not unless you are planning on building it with better components


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## FatBikeNoob (Aug 20, 2013)

The Mongoose Argus looks promising at I think $800:


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

GoPlayOutside said:


> If you were going to spend 1000 on the frameset and wheels I would just spend the extra 300 more and get the complete Sturgis Bullet bike.. not unless you are planning on building it with better components


Got the same rims as the Boris. That's my main complaint. Don't want to set them up tubeless at really low pressure. From what I can see it's going to take a minimum of $500 to $600 to do a new rebuild wheelset.


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## Oldens Lowe (Feb 17, 2014)

Just got my Mule Fut wheels with Van Helga 120tpi tires and aired em up tubeless. Yup, it's gonna be more than $300 to upgrade to tubeless wheels (never mind the tires). From stock FB4 front wheel, saved 1200g!

My tubeless setup is one layer reversed Duck Tape (green of course) for color. Three wraps of 3M tough tape over that, then one layer of the wide Gorilla tape over that. Airs up super easy. The wide gorilla tape goes bead seat to bead seat on the rim and seems to create a little more of a hump for the bead to get over to seat. Unseating the bead takes a bit of work with this setup, which I think is a good thing.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Oldens Lowe said:


> Just got my Mule Fut wheels with Van Helga 120tpi tires and aired em up tubeless. Yup, it's gonna be more than $300 to upgrade to tubeless wheels (never mind the tires). From stock FB4 front wheel, saved 1200g!
> 
> My tubeless setup is one layer reversed Duck Tape (green of course) for color. Three wraps of 3M tough tape over that, then one layer of the wide Gorilla tape over that. Airs up super easy. The wide gorilla tape goes bead seat to bead seat on the rim and seems to create a little more of a hump for the bead to get over to seat. Unseating the bead takes a bit of work with this setup, which I think is a good thing.


Having never done a lace up, I figured about $260 for rims, $240 for hubs, $70 for spokes, and $30 for brass nipples. Is that about right?

Forgot skewers $40.

Any ideas on labor?


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

Don't hubs come with skewers?


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

ou2mame said:


> Don't hubs come with skewers?


Most all the time, but have seen them without.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Bumpyride said:


> Most all the time, but have seen them without.


I thought frames and forks came with thru axles


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## Oldens Lowe (Feb 17, 2014)

Bumpyride said:


> Having never done a lace up, I figured about $260 for rims, $240 for hubs, $70 for spokes, and $30 for brass nipples. Is that about right?
> 
> Forgot skewers $40.
> 
> Any ideas on labor?


Ya, that's about right. I cut costs on the hubs, Surly 135 up front (comes with bolts, no skewer but will take QR skewer) and Deore hub on the back.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I am having a set of wheels built right now- and I went super budget on them:

Hubs, Salsa conversion hubs (need thru axles front and rear) - $300 /set
TrialTech 47mm rims - $110 /set
DT comp spokes (include nipples - box of 72) - $70
Labor (friends and family rate) - $70 for both =
$550 and this was about as cheap as I could go. I was going to do the Origin8 hubs that would have saved about $100, but the Bluto 150mm front hub has been backordered since September and I got tired of waiting.


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## Oldens Lowe (Feb 17, 2014)

*FB4 fork / hub*

Well - as I mentioned above, I had my FB4 tuebless wheels built up with a Surly hub for the front (what the good folks at the bike shop recommended after looking at my bike) but the Surly hub is rear disc spaced and I'm pretty sure the FB4 fork is front disc spaced.

Nothing like getting a custom wheel build with the wrong parts :madman:

Anyway - double, double check the specs before ordering hubs. I think I'll be able to add a Problem Solvers spacer but again, kinda sucks to spec wheels, then have to find a patch.

For the un-initiated: Rear spec discs sit 5mm more inboard from the outside locknut on the hub than front disc spec. If there is a mis-match of fork to hub, the caliper and disc don't line up without adapters.


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

Oldens Lowe said:


> Well - as I mentioned above, I had my FB4 tuebless wheels built up with a Surly hub for the front (what the good folks at the bike shop recommended after looking at my bike) but the Surly hub is rear disc spaced and I'm pretty sure the FB4 fork is front disc spaced.
> 
> Nothing like getting a custom wheel build with the wrong parts :madman:
> 
> ...


That does kind of suck. But it could be worse - if you had a rear-spec fork and built front-spec wheels you would not be able to use them at all. Well, at least not until you replaced the hub or the fork. That would really suck!

Fred


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

Having a really hard time picking which bike to get next. I've got a Boris X9 in the shop right now getting a Bluto, hub, thudbuster LT installed. The Thudbuster LT works great as supplement for no rear suspension as long as you are seated. I'll be giving this bike to my wife and getting a new one for myself. The ones I'm considering are Bluto Lurch, Boris evil Brut sprung, or the Full suspension Quigley. The Quigley is the farthest out time wise which isn't the end of the world but I'm concerned its specs don't seem that nice. I ride mostly combo of pavement/dirt trails. Not too much snow since I'm a wimp in the cold.


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## radnur22 (Jul 16, 2007)

Cody01 said:


> Having a really hard time picking which bike to get next. I've got a Boris X9 in the shop right now getting a Bluto, hub, thudbuster LT installed. The Thudbuster LT works great as supplement for no rear suspension as long as you are seated. I'll be giving this bike to my wife and getting a new one for myself. The ones I'm considering are Bluto Lurch, Boris evil Brut sprung, or the Full suspension Quigley. The Quigley is the farthest out time wise which isn't the end of the world but I'm concerned its specs don't seem that nice. I ride mostly combo of pavement/dirt trails. Not too much snow since I'm a wimp in the cold.


No sense in buying a bike with a 5" tire if you are not going to be using it in the snow. A 3.8" to 4" is better suited for the pavement/dirt trails. If you are going to go full suspension, save your pennies and get a Bucksaw. If you are not really aggressive with the down hill, I would think the Bucksaw is overkill.

I've been vacillating back and forth myself. Right now I have a Boris X9 and after riding on the dirt trails for a couple months, I wanted a Bluto, so I ordered a FS Boris, then I upgraded to a Sturgis Bullet, then upgraded to a Night train. Just last week I cancelled the order. I am going to install a Bluto to my Boris and get a Thudbuster this spring. IF I think I want more suspension, I'll save my $$ for a Bucksaw.


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

I don't think I like biking enough to swing the Bucksaw at $4K. I think the $1500 BD full suspension would do even though its not as nice.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I kinda want one but I already have a Boris


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Is it possible to get a BD Boris in the 30-31 pound range?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

radnur22 said:


> No sense in buying a bike with a 5" tire if you are not going to be using it in the snow. A 3.8" to 4" is better suited for the pavement/dirt trails. If you are going to go full suspension, save your pennies and get a Bucksaw. If you are not really aggressive with the down hill, I would think the Bucksaw is overkill.


I don't ride snow since I am in NorCal but have a Bud/Lou setup on my Night Train Bullet and love the 5" meats (loving the NTB period).

Amazing rock crawler ability traction on roots and through rock gardens. I rode shortly after a reThe extra cushion of the larger tires have been nice too.


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## MIKE157 (Nov 30, 2008)

OnThaCouch said:


> I don't ride snow since I am in NorCal but have a Bud/Lou setup on my Night Train Bullet and love the 5" meats (loving the NTB period).
> 
> Amazing rock crawler ability traction on roots and through rock gardens. I rode shortly after a reThe extra cushion of the larger tires have been nice too.


Are you saying there is no snow in Northern California ?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

MIKE157 said:


> Are you saying there is no snow in Northern California ?


Not at all :eekster:. I should have been more clear.

Check out TahoeBCs posts in the NorCal forum and their is plenty of evidence that snow exists in NorCal....just not where I am at :thumbsup:.

I would not exclude snow riding but most likely not getting out in the snow any time soon.


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## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)

I'll second the 4" tires comment if you're not using the bike on snow. I'd go 4" and bluto for a trailbike, 5" and rigid for a snow bike.. but that's just me.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

And I'll third it. I ride only in snow and the 5" tires almost seemed like too much at first. They're just huge. But I just need to get used to seeing that huge front tire up there when I ride. It looks pretty ridiculous. We haven't gotten enough snow to even tax them. It all melted and I'm waiting for more. I really liked them on the two rides I took in the little snow we had. Zero slip.

If you just gotta have 5's and you don't mind the extra rolling friction I say go for it. It's your bike.


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## Ufdah (Sep 9, 2012)

I'll be the 4th... I'm wanting 5" tires for my lurch after having taken a couple snow rides. I was down below 3psi and bumping my rim on the ground while pedaling to get enough float and traction with my 4.5" Snowshoes... The little extra I think could have gone a long ways. BUT, you don't need that much tire on the dirt. I really don't think it adds enough there to warrant the increased weight, rolling resistance, and self-steer.


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

Trail I ride currently is really wet, muddy and slippery. I have the stock Tires VEE RUBBER 26X4.5 VRB370 Snow Shoe that came with the NTB. Slipping all over the place. Tires don't grip well and spin easily. Perfect when trail dry and its dusty. Trail is fairly flat with few major inclines/declines.

What's a good tire option for wet, muddy, slippery conditions? What's a good psi for these conditions?

Cheers for any tips.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

From my research, sounds like the Bud and Lou are the go to tires.


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## Ralph (Aug 22, 2014)

bennybullfrog said:


> Trail I ride currently is really wet, muddy and slippery. I have the stock Tires VEE RUBBER 26X4.5 VRB370 Snow Shoe that came with the NTB. Slipping all over the place. Tires don't grip well and spin easily. Perfect when trail dry and its dusty. Trail is fairly flat with few major inclines/declines.
> 
> What's a good tire option for wet, muddy, slippery conditions? What's a good psi for these conditions?
> 
> Cheers for any tips.


I also put Bud/Lou on my Lurch. Better traction in all conditions, eliminated the wash out in turns, no self steer. I prefer a little more air in my tires...running 12psi rear, 8psi front. I weigh 232 pounds.


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## hykerwilson (Jan 19, 2014)

two lout tires, are best I run 9-11 psi when warm, and 4-7 psi when below 30


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies. I saw a lot of threads on tires for dry and also snow but not so much on slippery mud. I'll now look for the best deal I can get.....Cheers


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## bennybullfrog (Aug 1, 2014)

OnThaCouch said:


> I don't ride snow since I am in NorCal but have a Bud/Lou setup on my Night Train Bullet and love the 5" meats (loving the NTB period).
> 
> Amazing rock crawler ability traction on roots and through rock gardens. I rode shortly after a reThe extra cushion of the larger tires have been nice too.


Does the Lou on the back of the NTB rub against the chain in any gear?


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## OnThaCouch (Oct 2, 2010)

bennybullfrog said:


> Does the Lou on the back of the NTB rub against the chain in any gear?


I haven't experienced any rub at all. The rear end on this thing is really stiff.

Coming off of a frame that flexed a lot, the NTB is bliss. Pedal strokes = forward movement.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

My FB4 Pro has a brand new Lou and Bud. I finally did a 2 hour ride in some major snow yesterday. Some of the snow was loose and deep, not ridden on very much. The front Bud is no probs. But the rear Lou does rub some on the frame when I pedal hard and corner. Also in granny gear on the chain. I'm not too concerned. They're nice tires and I doubt I'll change the rear. I could shave the knobs but it's just not a big deal to me. Not like it brakes me and slows me down. The front fits great. Way better tires than the Vee missions. All around just way better tires.


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## adf2112 (Jun 19, 2012)

A tip for bikes that rub on the chain in the granny:

- Remove the crank. 
- On the drive-side, add an 2mm (or so) rubber O-ring around the spindle and push it all the way to the chainrings. 
- Replace the crank.
- Hand-tighten the preload plug and torque the non-drive crank on normally.

You now have 2mm or so of extra chain clearance! 

The O-ring rotates between (and along with) the crank and BB bushing so it does not rub on anything at all. I have been running this on my bike for some time with no noticeable difference in pedalling/shifting. It has not worn either.

Good luck!


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## ricosan (Oct 15, 2012)

sml-2727 said:


> Is it possible to get a BD Boris in the 30-31 pound range?


I have a 17" KHS 4season that weighs 31.6lbs. Lighter saddle,(WTB SST) Thomson seatpost, and most importantly, 26x 2.75" tubes and a pair of 45NRTH Hüsker Dü tires. Lighter wheels would help a little more.


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

*Tires and Wheels BD Boris X5/X7*

I came across a KHS 1000 19" in a LBS. Bike felt very nice, only drawback is the Innova Spyder tires. They did self steer a touch riding in a parking lot. It made me think I would like a Boris.

How are the Weinmann rims on these bikes? I see they are drilled, the KHS was not. X5 has Big Adventure tires, the others have Vee Missions. 
I have ridden a few tests with the Missions, they did self steer on pavement. I would likely replace them. What about the Big Adventures? I assume they are cheaper, but no idea on performance.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Rode this bike (NTB) again yesterday. Rocky and technical riding. 18 miles at about 2500 feet vertical . I have a friend who is ultra technical who I was following. Usually I loose home right away, but I stuck right on his rear wheel. There's a techy really fun downhill chock full of switchbacks. Took my previous PR on strava from 11:47 to 10:45.
Conditions were not particularly good. SO STOKED.
had a really good time!


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

tfinator said:


> Rode this bike (NTB) again yesterday. Rocky and technical riding. 18 miles at about 2500 feet vertical . I have a friend who is ultra technical who I was following. Usually I loose home right away, but I stuck right on his rear wheel. There's a techy really fun downhill chock full of switchbacks. Took my previous PR on strava from 11:47 to 10:45.
> Conditions were not particularly good. SO STOKED.
> had a really good time!


Very cool. I'm no speedster, but confidence and speed have vastly improved with the Fat tires on the sketchy downhill especially off piste, so I see why you're stoked.


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## adf2112 (Jun 19, 2012)

sml-2727 said:


> Is it possible to get a BD Boris in the 30-31 pound range?


My Boris is 28.5 lbs. All mods are pretty cheap besides the MRP fork and tires. Even without the fork mod, you can easily be under 30. My frame is a small - which also helps a bit 

- qtubes
- snowshoe tires
- carbon post, bars, MRP fat fork
- removed all single speed hardware
- Bolt-on skewers
- Juicy 7 brakes


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## distracted (Jan 16, 2015)

FoafInTX said:


> X5 has Big Adventure tires, the others have Vee Missions.


The X7 comes with 72TPI Vee8 tires.


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

distracted said:


> The X7 comes with 72TPI Vee8 tires.


Ok, thanks for the correction. The Vee8s seemed similar to the Missions in a parking lot ride on asphalt (Charge Cooker Maxi). They showed a little self steer. May be tire pressure related. I did not observe this with Nates, Nards, Vee Snowshoes, or Ground Control tires on test rides. Just wondering how much I would upgrade. The On-One Floaters sound decent from what I have read.

If it is necessary to upgrade wheels, that is a different story, as that is a big expense. I don't think that is the case but I was curious as to what actual owners think. I thought the KHS felt very nice except for the spider tire! They should be ashamed, LOL.


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## RagerXS (Jul 10, 2006)

FoafInTX said:


> I thought the KHS felt very nice except for the spider tire! They should be ashamed, LOL.


I wouldn't ever want to use that spider tire in any of the places I ride. But I have heard that they make the coolest tracks in sand at the beach. Probably easier resell than a lot of others.

Fred


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

RagerXS said:


> I wouldn't ever want to use that spider tire in any of the places I ride. But I have heard that they make the coolest tracks in sand at the beach. Probably easier resell than a lot of others.
> 
> Fred


The Innova Spyder tires actually didn't feel bad just riding around a parking lot, but they had an odd irregular feel. Maybe less self steer than others.


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

I did my local ride near where I live yesterday. The trails had a lot of snow on them, then thawed, then froze again. Man does that make it bumpy (hikers foot prints in thawed snow). Made me wish I had my FS bike. 

The Bud rear is a climbing monster. I climbed the tallest hill on my ride and it just cranked right up it. Not one bit of slip.


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## prescott_old_timer (Dec 30, 2014)

I received my Night Train Bullet last week. The bike looks great and the shifting is awesome. One problem though. The front brake will not retract enough from the rotors to allow the wheel to spin freely. The brake pads will only retract .003" from the rotors. The calipers are adjusted as perfect as they can be and the rotors have only .002" of runout (warping). Bikes Direct has indicated I need to take the bike to a local bike shop to have them submit a warranty claim with SRAM. Not the best of customer service in my opinion.

RUN from these SRAM Guide RS brakesets. The quality control is hit or miss. Some work fine others have such bad fit/function that they are nothing but trouble. This is from personal experience and by the way SRAM will only deal with bicycle dealers on warranty issues. This forces you to spend extra $$$ on having the "Warrantied" brake replaced. I highly do not recommend this brake.

Would I purchase from Bikes Direct again, let see; pay $1500 upfront and wait 2-1/2 months for the bike to be delivered, defective components need to be address by a local bike shop vs. saving 50%. Yes, I probably would still purchase from BD. But now I know there may be extra expenses involved with the purchase to replace defective parts.


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

All of my friends are talking about getting a fat bike, I wasn't sure if i wanted one or not until I saw how much the highest end motobecane is, seems like I'm losing money if I don't buy it, but I'm sure that isn't true. I'm looking at the Bori Evil Brut. How much do you think it weighs in a 21"? How hard is it to convert to tubeless? What items need to be upgraded right away?

Save up to 60% off new Fat Bikes Motobecane 2015 Boris The Evil Brut Shimano XT, Fat Bikes, Mountain Bikes


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## Marna_Kazmaier (Sep 11, 2014)

prescott_old_timer said:


> Would I purchase from Bikes Direct again, let see; pay $1500 upfront and wait 2-1/2 months for the bike to be delivered, defective components need to be address by a local bike shop vs. saving 50%. Yes, I probably would still purchase from BD. But now I know there may be extra expenses involved with the purchase to replace defective parts.


I had a cog problem with my DB bike, they told me to take it to a local bike shop and DB paid the bill with no questions. I was VERY pleased.


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## DDondero (Nov 6, 2014)

I have a Boris X7 with the Vee 8 tires. I've found they have pretty bad self steer on pavement or hardpack if the tire pressure is below 10-12 psi. Not really noticeable on the snow but the traction is not great in those conditions. I think they will be an ok warm weather trail tire. I have a set of On One Floaters being delivered tomorrow. We've got more snow coming over the next 4 days. Hopefully give them a whirl this weekend.


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## DeuceWheeler (Oct 27, 2014)

DDondero said:


> I have a Boris X7 with the Vee 8 tires. I've found they have pretty bad self steer on pavement or hardpack if the tire pressure is below 10-12 psi. Not really noticeable on the snow but the traction is not great in those conditions. I think they will be an ok warm weather trail tire. I have a set of On One Floaters being delivered tomorrow. We've got more snow coming over the next 4 days. Hopefully give them a whirl this weekend.


The Floaters elevate the Boris X7 to a whole new level. It becomes very playful, much like a 29er. I couldn't believe the difference between them and the VEE 8's. The floaters rip on hardpack and in snow. best change I made to my X7.
The VEE 8's suck.


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## DDondero (Nov 6, 2014)

DeuceWheeler said:


> The Floaters elevate the Boris X7 to a whole new level. It becomes very playful, much like a 29er. I couldn't believe the difference between them and the VEE 8's. The floaters rip on hardpack and in snow. best change I made to my X7.
> The VEE 8's suck.


That's what I'm hoping for. $110 for the set, delivered in 4 days.

exit: got a delivery notice from UPS. Yesterday and today's snow has delayed delivery.  First world problem. I got out there this morning on the snowshoes to break/pack trails. Hopefully delivered late tonight or tomorrow morning.


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## dietz31684 (Mar 30, 2010)

DDondero said:


> That's what I'm hoping for. $110 for the set, delivered in 4 days.


I've got a set coming today so I'll test them tonight. Hoping for the same effect.


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

+1 for the Floaters....but I've only used them on snow.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

JoeMountain said:


> I did my local ride near where I live yesterday. The trails had a lot of snow on them, then thawed, then froze again. Man does that make it bumpy (hikers foot prints in thawed snow). Made me wish I had my FS bike.
> 
> The Bud rear is a climbing monster. I climbed the tallest hill on my ride and it just cranked right up it. Not one bit of slip.


What pressures you running?


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

At this point my friends and I are all running BD fats and love them. We collectively have a sturgis bullet, a boris x7, an x5, and I'm on a bullseye monster with a quigley on the way. (Know a guy with a lurch too. He isn't part of our normal riding group but he likes it)
At this point BD should be giving me commision on all the bikes I've sold for them.


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

DeuceWheeler said:


> The Floaters elevate the Boris X7 to a whole new level. It becomes very playful, much like a 29er. I couldn't believe the difference between them and the VEE 8's. The floaters rip on hardpack and in snow. best change I made to my X7.
> The VEE 8's suck.


Thanks for sharing that. My main hesitation with the Boris series is the tires. X5, X7, and X9 have no-name, Vee 8 and Vee Missions, respectively. The feel of the identical KHS All Season was great. I thought the Floaters would be a good, reasonably priced replacement, as you state. The Vee tires do have low rolling resistance, not an aggressive tire. They might be good in hard packed dirt, I have heard they do well in sand. I rode a Surly Krampus with Knards, they were fantastic in loose dirt, large gravel and hard pack, not bad on paved. I was amazed. They do make them in 3.8 x 26, probably about twice the cost of the Floaters. I did kind of get hooked by that Krampus, it was a lot of fun.


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

My biggest hesitation with the Motobecane bikes are the wheels, which is THE most expensive component for building up a bike. Even the Top End Boris has the same rims as the lowest priced boris, the hubs are little nicer on the Evil Brut, but i don't really feel like I would be getting as good of a deal as it appears by buyin a motobecane. BUT for the price you get a bike that will work. . .and be fine overall.

Wheels are the easiest place to hide the "savings" for bike companies. Look at how much the wheelset is for the Boris Evil Brut, $350, which is half of what a decent set of surly wheels would cost you. 

I had a "high end" motobecane Fantom 29Sl, which was a fun bike, cost was $1000, but besides a XTR rear derailleur, XT shifters and Rock Shox Reba Dual Air Fork, every other component was "Deore" or lower level, which worked fine, but in reality I was saving, maybe, $200, when compared to a full SLX hardtail at that time.

I do think that Motobecane fills a needed niche market, but it's hard to find a bike on their website that is made up of parts all around the same level. For the Fatbikes I think the most well rounded bikes are those in the Sram X5 level, otherwise you are just getting a heavy bike with a couple of high end parts slapped on.


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## dubinjs (Nov 6, 2010)

I have the Night Train Bullet and broke the D hanger on the third ride. It took 4 weeks and a lot of research and emails to get another one after they made the type 2. I was pissed! It's back up and running and have ridden snow two times now. The Vee Snowshoe tires on it sucked. I played with the PSI along the ride and it helped, but still didn't feel very confident I wasn't going to wash out or make it up steeper climbs. I tried setting up the Shitty Weidman rims tubeless and had luck seating the bead on only one rim. And even then, it separated riding off a curb with 9 psi. Just testing it out. So I had to re install tubes. I did drop some weight installing Q-Tubes, but still can't get the PSI down low enough(safely) to make the ride really stable. I knew from the start of need new wheels. Just hoped I'd get one season out of these. At this point, looks like I will! When buying through BD, you need to know that several upgrades will be needed. In my situation, at $1,400.00, it's a deal when you get the Guide brakes and a Bluto fork. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I want to purchase the NTB early March; I hope they have some in stock by then, but I am guessing it may be months until that happens.

Is there another bluto-equipped, thru-axle front AND rear, hydraulic brake fatbike available from any other source that is less than 1750$?


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Is there another bluto-equipped, thru-axle front AND rear, hydraulic brake fatbike available from any other source that is less than 1750$?


Probably not, but for me I have to factor in around an extra $950 in parts to make the NTB comparable to the another bike that would have thru-axles. $600 for wheels that can be set up tubeless, $120 for a carbon handlebar with a decent width (at least 740mm), $30 for a 60mm stem and $200 for decent set of tires.

If I'm super lucky I could get $200 for the old wheels with the tires. . .


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

unrooted said:


> Probably not, but for me I have to factor in around an extra $950 in parts to make the NTB comparable to the another bike that would have thru-axles. $600 for wheels that can be set up tubeless, $120 for a carbon handlebar with a decent width (at least 740mm), $30 for a 60mm stem and $200 for decent set of tires.
> 
> If I'm super lucky I could get $200 for the old wheels with the tires. . .


What complete bike meets your requirements for less than the cost of the BD one plus the cost of your desired upgrades?


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

I've looked around a bit and you are correct. 

I think it may be best to buy the frame/fork combo and build it up from scratch, if my math is close then you would end up spending the same as in the previous scenario, but you wouldn't have to sell parts.


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

Also you won't have to wait till may.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

unrooted said:


> I think it may be best to buy the frame/fork combo and build it up from scratch, if my math is close then you would end up spending the same as in the previous scenario, but you wouldn't have to sell parts.


Annoying part is that for some reason the usual source of cheap frames from overseas are bent on making bow legged 120mm BB. The hell.

I am contemplating parting out BD, putting part on Carver carbon frame, and relacing wheels to a better set of rims..


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

unrooted said:


> My biggest hesitation with the Motobecane bikes are the wheels, which is THE most expensive component for building up a bike. Even the Top End Boris has the same rims as the lowest priced boris, the hubs are little nicer on the Evil Brut, but i don't really feel like I would be getting as good of a deal as it appears by buyin a motobecane. BUT for the price you get a bike that will work. . .and be fine overall.
> 
> Wheels are the easiest place to hide the "savings" for bike companies. Look at how much the wheelset is for the Boris Evil Brut, $350, which is half of what a decent set of surly wheels would cost you.
> 
> ...


I was asking what the opinion was of the Weinmann rims on the Boris series here several weeks back. No one really seems to be complaining about them holding up, which is good, but they are probably heavy. Absolutely, the main cost difference between the BD fatbikes and some other brands are the cheaper tires and wheels. If you decide to replace both with Surly products, you might as well buy a Pugsley or a Mukluk. I believe several other brands do use the same Weimann rims, others use Sun Ringle, more expensive. Surly is used by a lot of brands, like 9:Zero:7, as original equipment. I don't really expect to get the same for $1000 less, so I ask myself if it is good enough for my riding.

Darn it, now I have been on a few Surly/Salsa products, liked them a lot, so I am not sure how happy I'd be with something else. Same with a Fatboy, just felt great.


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

IMO, the BD bikes are a great value. the one thing I do not like about them is I wish they would sell the bikes with lower grade bolt on stuff and put more of the money into the wheels( and when I say wheels, I mean hubs). I would much rather change the rear derailer and shifter than the rear hub.....as for the surly stuff, I am not really impressed with its value. Don't get me wrong, some of it is good stuff but the prices are not a value price.


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

IMHO surly is one of the most overrated companies in cycling.


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

unrooted said:


> IMHO surly is one of the most overrated companies in cycling.


Surly makes expensive bikes, no doubt. I have thought "$2000 for a steel bike with no suspension??" I rode a Krampus for a weekend and was amazed and loved it. I also rode a Pugsley for a weekend. It was nice and could go through amazingly sloppy conditions, got tired pushing it around! Air was probably too high to get the "fat bike experience" like I did on the Krampus. I test rode an ECR and it just felt right, immediate "click." I tested a Mukluk, also liked it. I tested a Fargo and could not figure out why it felt so much faster than my aluminum Specialized 29er. I concluded yes, there is a difference between these bikes and what I currently own. I even tried a Straggler and it felt great.

My "want" is probably based on having ridden the bikes. Maybe I've fallen for the hype, but they seemed really great.

I really wish I could ride a Boris on dirt, I did like the KHS 1000 a lot in a parking lot test ride, except the tires. The frame design seemed very comfortable and it did not feel heavy at all. Buying a Boris X5 and spending another roughly $200 for On-One Floaters might leave me happy with an extra $1200 bucks in my pocket.


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## DDondero (Nov 6, 2014)

I just got a set of On One Floaters for $110 from Planet-X-USA. Free shipping and had them in 4 days from ordering.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Nothing wrong with the HL80 wheels, if you can stomach a few extra grams. There are only a couple of bulletproof hubs out there, and good luck finding them OEM. The big companies have had arguably worse luck with their hubs than BD. I ride my NTB next to BMXers at the jumps and huck it like a FR bike off whatever blows my skirt up. I've 50/50'd or shorted numerous jumps, and the rear is the same tiny bit untrue that it was from the get. 

Tubeless is reliable using tape, two wraps sill foam, and split tube, just like any other fat wheelset.

Carbon bars in your favorite size and rise are an upgrade item on most bikes. You can bargain shop for alloy bars in most length/rise/color- that will be an upgrade over most stock bars. 

There is a lot of low hanging fruit on these bikes, for sure, but you can do quite a bit for very little cabbage.


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## jollyjared (Dec 15, 2013)

*29" wheels on fatbike*

I'm looking at buying a Motobecane NightTrain. Does anyone know if I'll be able to fit 29" non-fat wheels/tires on this frame? I'm wondering if I could build a second set of wheels for XC riding in the summer. I figure the geometry should be similar with the fat wheels or the 29" wheels if they'd fit. I've read that you can fit 29" x 3.0" tires on the Bluto.

Thanks


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Bikes Direct will actually sell you a set of 9er wheels to fit your Night Train...

Save Up to 60% Off FatBike, MTB, Road, Lifestyle Bicycle Bike Wheels for Bicycles, Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, Hybrid, Comfort and More Save Up to 60% Off New Bikes

$250 gets you wheels and tires!


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

MaximumX said:


> Bikes Direct will actually sell you a set of 9er wheels to fit your Night Train...
> 
> Save Up to 60% Off FatBike, MTB, Road, Lifestyle Bicycle Bike Wheels for Bicycles, Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, Hybrid, Comfort and More Save Up to 60% Off New Bikes
> 
> $250 gets you wheels and tires!


I assume you're referring to the i25 (25mm) TCS build? Unfortunately, the Surly Knard (3") requires a 35mm rim (and not larger than 50mm). Not sure if all 3" tires have the same requirements, but something to keep in mind. I wish Bikes Direct would offer a build closer to 45mm in width to be more compatible.

My Bluto with a Dillinger 5 on the 80mm rim tubed has about .75" to spare in radius before rubbing the Bluto on the top - granted this could vary with tubes/tubeless, etc.


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## jollyjared (Dec 15, 2013)

MaximumX said:


> Bikes Direct will actually sell you a set of 9er wheels to fit your Night Train...
> 
> Save Up to 60% Off FatBike, MTB, Road, Lifestyle Bicycle Bike Wheels for Bicycles, Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes, Hybrid, Comfort and More Save Up to 60% Off New Bikes
> 
> $250 gets you wheels and tires!


That should save some trouble. Perfect, thanks.


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## dirtdawg21892 (Jul 20, 2009)

Higgins17 said:


> I assume you're referring to the i25 (25mm) TCS build? Unfortunately, the Surly Knard (3") requires a 35mm rim (and not larger than 50mm). Not sure if all 3" tires have the same requirements, but something to keep in mind.


The tire will still work on a narrow rim. I road a 4.0 on a normal 25mm rim for a year before I got a real fatbike. A wider rim would be preferable and give it a more square profile, but don't totally rule it out just because surley says you need to buy one of their rims to run it on.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk 2


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

I finally gave up on my Lou and Bud on my FB Pro. Just too much tire for the back. Front was fine. Removed them and put the stock tires on. New Lou and Bud like new for sale if anyone needs these.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

Never mind.


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

Double post, disregard.


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## dledinger (Nov 29, 2014)

mtb_fun said:


> Don't do it! I ordered this wheelset for my Sturgis Bullet and the rear wheel won't fit. The rear hub is set up 190mm and the Sturgis/NightTrains are 197mm.
> 
> The BD website does list it as 190mm but also says they fit Sturgis/NT. I thought they made the same mistake they made on the St/NT listings as they had the rear hub listed as 190mm.
> 
> Anyway, Bikes Direct emailed me an address to return them to for a refund. I replied with a request for a prepaid shipping label. I should not have to pay for shipping for an item their website says fits my bike but does not.


Wow...thats crazy. Does that bike use a through axle? Not sure I understand the specs entirely, but it looks like when using a 12mm through axle the Novarech 202SB does, or at the very least can, use a 197mm spacing. This shouldn't impact bikes using a rear QR, they're only 190mm.

Do you happen to know what hubs are on the 29er wheels?


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## Ohfugit (Jul 10, 2009)

They do fit the Sturgis Bullit (197mm x 12mm) The rear hub is 190 out of the box and comes with 2 spacers (In the plastic bag with the spare qr stuff) The spacers go into the frame slots that make up the last 7mm.

So it will fit a 190 and a 197


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## dledinger (Nov 29, 2014)

These spacers come with the wheels or the bike?


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

Ohfugit said:


> They do fit the Sturgis Bullit (197mm x 12mm) The rear hub is 190 out of the box and comes with 2 spacers (In the plastic bag with the spare qr stuff) The spacers go into the frame slots that make up the last 7mm.
> 
> So it will fit a 190 and a 197


Thanks, that's good to know. I thought all the stuff in the bag was for converting to qr. I will check it out tomorrow.


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## Ohfugit (Jul 10, 2009)

dledinger said:


> These spacers come with the wheels or the bike?


The wheelset I purhased separately from BD came with spacers and an additional conversion for qr. 
The wheels that came on the bike were wide enough for the frame and did not need spacers.


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Did the 9r wheelset come with the same rear hub as the original Sturgis wheels? Novatech D202SB?


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## mtb_fun (Sep 19, 2014)

MaximumX said:


> Did the 9r wheelset come with the same rear hub as the original Sturgis wheels? Novatech D202SB?


Yes, but set up for 190mm instead of 197mm.


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

Oh, well then you should be able to use the ends from your original wheels. At least then you wouldn't have to deal with the extra spacers...


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

mtb_fun said:


> Thanks, that's good to know. I thought all the stuff in the bag was for converting to qr. I will check it out tomorrow.


You may want to clarify your first post regarding this wheel in the case your wheels aren't wrong. As that'll off-put quite a few people errantly. We have enough misinformation in these threads.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

*Fat Moto Ti anyone?*

Hmmmm. Interesting.


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

That's some perty Ti.

Quick someone make a dedicated thread for it!!!


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

WSUPolar said:


> That's some perty Ti.
> 
> Quick someone make a dedicated thread for it!!!


To be fair, pretty much anything in Ti is deserving of its own thread.


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

watermonkey said:


> Hmmmm. Interesting.
> View attachment 972555


Mmmm. Tapered head so my Bluto just kinda slides right in!


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## MaximumX (Sep 6, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> Hmmmm. Interesting.
> View attachment 972555


Ummmmm... WANT!!!!


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## thunderzy (Jul 23, 2010)

I've been waiting for this. Money ready.


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

Any ideas on the weight of the Ti vs Aluminum???


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## DDondero (Nov 6, 2014)

Daddy likey some Ti!


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

watermonkey said:


> Hmmmm. Interesting.
> View attachment 972555


I wonder if my Lurch parts will swap over? I would need a carbon fork though.


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## Thompsonct80 (Mar 6, 2015)

Anybody else get a BD carbon fork?


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

Bikes direct has a carbon fork??? For fatties?????


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## Thompsonct80 (Mar 6, 2015)

FREE SHIP 48 STATES* Fat Bike FULL CARBON FORKS Tapered Carbon Steerer, Thru-Axle


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

watermonkey said:


> Hmmmm. Interesting.
> View attachment 972555


Me. Want.


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## siebermd (Feb 27, 2015)

Ive been trying to buy a Fat Bike for my wife so we can ride on the beach together. 17" on everything from X7 and down is sold out!!


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

If you love yor wife then you would buy the Boris X9


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

unrooted said:


> Bikes direct has a carbon fork??? For fatties?????


yes, and there are 2 ongoing threads discussing it:

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/motobecane-carbon-fatty-fork-958715.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/bikes-direct-carbon-forks-955733.html


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

watermonkey said:


> Hmmmm. Interesting.
> View attachment 972555


where is this from? I don't see it on the BD website.

Any idea on price?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Swerny said:


> where is this from? I don't see it on the BD website.
> 
> Any idea on price?


They made a Facebook post about it.


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

siebermd said:


> Ive been trying to buy a Fat Bike for my wife so we can ride on the beach together. 17" on everything from X7 and down is sold out!!


Keep an eye on craigslist And if you have facebook join fatbike trader, they pop up from time to time.


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## DeuceWheeler (Oct 27, 2014)

sml-2727 said:


> Keep an eye on craigslist And if you have facebook join fatbike trader, they pop up from time to time.


Also, check BikeIsland.com - Bicycle Parts, Accessories and Clothing at Affordable Prices with Free Shipping that is there they sell their scratch and dent bikes.


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## joshhan (Apr 1, 2011)

watermonkey said:


> Hmmmm. Interesting.
> View attachment 972555


Yeah and the decals really look like Moots.

In fact, swap the second "O" with the "T" and you can ride a MOOTBECANE!


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## WSUPolar (Sep 19, 2014)

Any one received shipment notice on their Quigley yet?


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## Xpcgamer (Nov 14, 2011)

WSUPolar said:


> Any one received shipment notice on their Quigley yet?


I am interested to see reviews of this bike. I have been riding my Lurch on the same trails I rode my FS Stump jumper on so I wouldn't mind a full squish fatness.


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## dmars3571 (May 17, 2008)

I received this email update on 3/26:

Hi, Thanks for being a smart cyclist and saving hundreds on your new Gravity Quigley Fat Bike. 

Update on your order - 

The Ocean Freight companies delivering these bikes to the U.S. have notified us that the shipment of Quigley Fat Bike will be delayed by about 2 weeks. We are now expecting them to arrive around 4/15/15. The moment they are delivered to our warehouse we will do everything possible to have them shipped out the same day. 

The delay is completely out of our control, however, we do apologize for any inconvenience. We will email you once these arrive and ship out to customers. 

Thanks again for being a smart cyclist and saving hundreds off your new Gravity Fat Bike. 

Best regards, 

The Friendly Folks at Bikesdirect.com


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## revolution337 (Jun 8, 2014)

Can't wait until some of these bikes get back in stock. I'm not big on the whole "pay now and get your bike in 3 months" thing.


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## Phil Sexton (Jul 20, 2014)

Ordered on Saturday, delivered on Wednesday. The BikesDirect Motobecane Boris X7 looks better than I imagined it would, considering they had no actual picture of the bike in it's Lilac color. Ordered the tires from Planet X on Monday, they showed up at my LBS on Tuesday...Wow!! 38 pounds assembled. I'm pleased.


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## soarftb (May 18, 2015)

So it's pretty clear that the On One Floater and the Vee Mission are manufactured by the same company. They have the exact same color options on Planet X and are the same price. So why does BD ship their bikes with the Vees and not the On Ones?

The only reason I can think of is some business or copyright mojo where they want On One as a separate brand or something.

BD if you are listening, please start shipping your bikes with the On One Floaters. It won't cost you anything and people will stop having to swap out their tires as the first thing they do with their new fat bikes.

Otherwise much respect to BD for their fat bike offerings, support and quality.


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## Ohfugit (Jul 10, 2009)

I believe the person that designed the OnOne Floaters is on here. If you search you will find the thread. He had VeeMission make the tires to his design.

I like the 120 TPI Silicon Snowshoes. The roll and grip well and were a bit lighter then the OnOne Floaters I had.


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## Brad G. (Oct 8, 2014)

Anyone having problems with the quick releases loosening on their own on the front and back of their FB4?


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## JoeMountain (Apr 17, 2010)

Brad G. said:


> Anyone having problems with the quick releases loosening on their own on the front and back of their FB4?


I realize your post is a few months old but I have not had this issue on mine. I only ride in snow so I don't ride it as much as my regular mountain bike.


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## BikesFloat (Jul 27, 2015)

Brad G. said:


> Anyone having problems with the quick releases loosening on their own on the front and back of their FB4?


Check the lurch lounge thread. Many posts regarding problems with rear QR skewer and steps people have taken to correct it. Not sure if it's the same skewer and dropout configuration as the FB4.


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## Oldens Lowe (Feb 17, 2014)

No problems with the QR whatsoever on my FB4 with 2 winters and many miles of riding.


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## joebikesdirect (Sep 5, 2014)

Brad G. said:


> Anyone having problems with the quick releases loosening on their own on the front and back of their FB4?


Sorry I missed your post / question on this. We've never heard of this issue with any of the FB4 Motobecane fatbikes. If you have not already Please email [email protected] with pics of your QRs and your hub/dropouts with a detailed note of what is going on?


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## ascdesigns (May 21, 2007)

n/t


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## Oldens Lowe (Feb 17, 2014)

joshhan said:


> Yeah and the decals really look like Moots.
> 
> In fact, swap the second "O" with the "T" and you can ride a MOOTBECANE!


Or...you could swap the letters and ditch the becane and ride a really cool "MOOT"


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## MegaMustang (Sep 12, 2009)

*Joining the Moto FB club*

OK, first off, forgive me... I've only read the first 48 pages of this thread. So I haven't yet read about all the discoveries and insights gained.

The other day, a guy posted a FB4 Comp for sale on a local forum. Since I'd be looking for a used fatty, the timing was perfect. I landed the deal for $525 on Christmas morning.

The bike came already converted to 1x10 with a SRAM GX crank and a Shimano XT 11-36 cassette.









After the maiden voyage and shakedown, I hauled the bike to the basement and started moving hot rod parts from my seldom-ridden 26" FS bike (coincidentally, also green/back) over.

So now, here's my Green Piggy:

















11-42 cassette with One-Up ring, Goat Link, and XT rear derailleur









Easton Haven CF handlebar and Avid Elixir 9 brakes









Fizik saddle









































I rode it to the shop yesterday to have my mech check the headset and bottom bracket. I had repacked the headset; that's good-to-go. But the BB needs a refresh. No problemo.

While there, threw it on the scale:









34# 5 oz with pedals, bottle cage, Garmin, and commuter light on the handlebars. Not bad.

I'm now at six MTBs in the house. Oops.

*I'm looking forward to reading the next 100+ pages to learn what you've learned. * Clearly, tires are issue #1. These Vee Missions are useless in slick mud. After that, I'm interested in learning more about the durability of the Q-Tubes vs the heavy stockers vs the newest strategies for a tubeless conversion.

Having fun, and riding with a big grin on my face again.


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## rex615 (Aug 2, 2014)

Welcome to the gang, sounds like you are well on your way with the improvements to your bike. Color coordinated parts look good!

Cheers


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## Oldens Lowe (Feb 17, 2014)

MegaMustang - likewise - also welcome to the club. Ya the Mission tires are Ok for dry stuff but are largely useless in mud and snow. Upgrade tires first, get a set of Mulefut wheels if you can, and you'll prob want better brakes. But the bike is fun even stock.


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## DeuceWheeler (Oct 27, 2014)

****Anyone have new takeoffs, rear 10 speed derailleur and shifter for sale?


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Mispost.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

definitely get better brakes and tires. i got the bulls eye monster. very happy with it. its my main bike now


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## MegaMustang (Sep 12, 2009)

Oldens Lowe said:


> MegaMustang - likewise - also welcome to the club. Ya the Mission tires are Ok for dry stuff but are largely useless in mud and snow. Upgrade tires first, get a set of Mulefut wheels if you can, and you'll prob want better brakes. But the bike is fun even stock.


Oldens (and/or others),
I got a Mulefut for the front.... EASY.
Now, what is the best way to do one in the rear? Does anyone sell one, ready-to-go, for our unique offset, or is it best to have one built? The rim is available on eBay for $108, but determining the right spokes and lacing it up optimally is probably beyond my skills. Interested in any/all advice.
Thanks in advance!
_Matt


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