# Attention Helmet Manufacturers



## jkish (Dec 11, 2004)

Today, I sustained an injury that has resulted in this post. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=176970

I have always believed in using the right tool for the job. I have applied this philosophy to my gear when I ride but unfortunately, at this point in time, the right tool for the job is unavailable. What I am refering to is the appropriate head protection for warm weather aggressive XC riding. Our sport has evolved such that there is a huge demand for a hybrid product that offers a level of protection that is somewhere between that of hardcore, fullface DH models and that of lightweight, highly ventilated XC ones.

Today, more and more aggressive XC riders are showing up on the trail with fullface helmets. The number one complaint is that fullface helmets are too hot, limiting their usefullness to cooler weather conditions. In warmer climates heat exhaustion is a concern. Some of us, on a quest for the ideal balance between protection and ventilation, go as far as modifying existing fullface models. (which I believe has potential grave consequences without proper scientific R&D) If lightweight, highly ventilated fullface helmets were available, many would purchase them, including myself.

The fullface helmets that are currently available offer excellent head protection at the high velocities attained at downhill slopes and freeride parks. Most XC riders never reach these velocites and consequently do not need this level of protection. On the other hand, while many XC style helmets are adequate to prevent cranial injuries, they do nothing to protect the face. Here is where the problem lies. I like my face.

Some companies are making headway into this potential market but none have hit the mark. I believe that the future of headgear is in this direction and that the companies who respond will find it very lucrative.

Please help me complete my collection of helmets with the right tool for the job so I don't have any more trips to the hospital. I'd rather spend the money on a helmet. I've got my checkbook out. Who do make it out to?


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## Martin.au (Jan 1, 2006)

Yeah, bring back the Giro Switchblade you sods. I want a XC helmet with chin protection too. Something that also passes Australian standards too. (I think that's why I haven't seen any Met Para-chutes in Aus)

sings:
I'm too sexy for this crash, too sexy for this crash, too sexy YEAHHHHHHH!!!.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

You could always order this. I have ordered from Chain Reaction and they are fast and a great overseas mail order.

The helmet is a little spendy but you get free shipping after you spend a certain amount. Check out their prices. Its cheaper to order Zoke forks than to order them here in the US.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=10718


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*They won't make one.*

I don't know, Jay...Gary and I have been waiting and researching this since the death of the Switchblade...and even the Switchblade didn't offer all the protection I really wanted. It seems that there is not enough demand for a true "crossover" helmet that really fills that gap between XC and freeride. You'd think there would be, but honestly I think too many bicyclists are too self conscious about wearing such a helmet while trail riding. I've even had people make comments when I was wearing the Switchblade. I'm thick-skinned enough to not give a XXXX, but just look at some of the posts on the DH/FR forum about how one should wear their jerseys, body armor, etc., and how some refer to riders who don't "comply" as fugging morons. There are lots of closet style mavens within the ranks of bicyclists...even in the DH/FR bunch. It's amazing how many riders of all kinds out there are somewhat aghast even when another rider is wearing just elbow and knee/shin protection on a trail ride. Coming from dirt motorcycles, I've always thought at least a moderate amount of body armor and a decent helmet was a requirement.

That said, I know you've seen my modified Pryme AL for trail riding. I think most of us who want a true, breathable, crossover helmet will basically have to make one. I chose the Pryme AL because it was the most vented full face helmet that I could find. I modified all the padding except for the cranial padding, so it is now more like a skate or jump helmet with a beefy chin/jaw guard. It breathes every bit as good as my Switchblade helmets did, and I've been riding in it with great comfort even when we had some of those weird 90's degree days this winter.

I wish someone would make a beefier Giro Switchblade style helmet, but I don't see it coming. I know you're a tinkerer, so you may just have to do something similar to what I did. And BTW...quit trying to eat the rocks out at our trail. Bring a sack lunch next time!


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

here you go. http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=12720


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## Raptordude (Mar 30, 2004)

I suggest the Specialized Deviant, its the best helmet ever created. Here is why:

1. Superior Venting: Its comparable to the Switchblade, has many MANY vents and keeps you cool. Tons of vents, and it breathes really well. It doesn't feel hot, and it doesn't get your head mega hot.
2. All around Use: With Full Face protection you can use this helmet from agressive trail riding to lift assisted downhilling. I myself have a Deviant that I use for all my downhill and freeride purposes, and I'd use it for many other types of biking also.
3. Lightweight: No matter which material you choose (The fiberglass version or the Carbon version) both are very lightweight and feel good on your head. 
4. Good Protection: Its certified to Downhill Bike standards and I feel protected and safe in this helmet. It has a rediculously stiff outer shell and a well engineered interior. I feel safe in this helmet.
5. Good Looking: This is a easy topic, the helmet looks badass, even better than a TLD if I may say so myself.
6. Great Fit: ProFit2 allows for a fully customizable fit. Its best of course to try it on to get a glimpse of how the helmet fits, but ProFit2 and the use of the extra little pads will allow you to dial in your fit perfectly.
7. Quality: Specialized did a great job with this helmet, everything feels well made and of high quality. From the outer shell, to the chin strap, everything has great detail and is well made. 

Overall I absolutley LOVE my Deviant. It looks awesome, its very ventilated and cool, it has good protection, and is a very well made helmet. For all around use I would reccomend this helmet. Downhilling, Agressive Trail Riding, Dirt Jumping....this helmet can do it all.


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## Jukebox (Sep 2, 2004)

I was talking with my Specialized rep the other day(and drinking all the kool aide he had) and reportedly the deviant is the only fullface elmet that meets motorcycle crash requirements. All of the other fullfaces on the market will brake in the chin area under a hard crash, more or less rendering the chin peice irrevelant. That being said, most bicycle crashes arent as hard as ones on motorcycles, but on a downhill bike, something similar could happen. I think that is why the switchblade was taken off the market, it wasnt safe enough.

Also, modified helmets are scary, I wouldnt ride one.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Not true.*



Jukebox said:


> I was talking with my Specialized rep the other day(and drinking all the kool aide he had) and reportedly the deviant is the only fullface elmet that meets motorcycle crash requirements. All of the other fullfaces on the market will brake in the chin area under a hard crash, more or less rendering the chin peice irrevelant. That being said, most bicycle crashes arent as hard as ones on motorcycles, but on a downhill bike, something similar could happen. I think that is why the switchblade was taken off the market, it wasnt safe enough.
> 
> Also, modified helmets are scary, I wouldnt ride one.


If you are doing some real DH and FR stuff of any degree, you should be wearing a real DH/FR Helmet. I have a Bell Moto 7 and Giro Mad Max for a shuttle setting like Whistler. What we're talking about here is having a helmet that "truly" breathes almost as good as an XC helmet for trail riding on a 90 degree day. These helmets will be a compromise of sorts to helmets like the Deviant, Mad Max, Remedy, etc., etc. You will not get a helmet that you could/should use in a true DH/FR setting that will be as safe and reliable as a full blown DH/FR helmet. However, the "compromise" helmet will/should be superior to an open face XC lid. As I mentioned in my comment earlier about the Switchblade, I totally agree that it didn't offer the protection that I really would have desired.

As to your comment about "modified" helmets, well that kinda depends on how you modify it. On the Pryme AL pictured, the cranial area is still totally intact and unmodified. If you compare this helmet to a quality XC style lid, you will notice that it is equal and more likely much more protective in the cranial area...more like a skate/jump helmet with a chin/jaw guard. What you get over the XC lid is a slightly better armored exterior and some decent chin/jaw protection. You only remove the neck and ear hole padding to let air circulate more efficiently. Is this helmet as safe as it was before it was modified?...no. Is it safer than the open face XC lid that I'd normally have to wear on a warm day while riding for 20 miles while climbing and such?...I would argue that it is.

I'm not selling these helmets, only pointing out that if one wants a helmet that you can ride on a warm day, all day, then you may have to "make" your own...whether you use a Deviant, AL, or some other model. The one thing you probably shouldn't do it modify or remove material from the cranial area of the helmet. This area is designed to operate in a specific manner and probably shouldn't be tampered with.

Jukebox, we're also a Spec dealer at the shop I work at. The Deviant is a good looking design and very well vented. I considered it as one of the candidates for my modification. However, just like the AL, it is too hot and too padded in some of its neck, ear, and jaw area to use as a trail helmet for long rides on warmer days. And therein lies the problem that this whole post was intended to point out. There are no true manufactured "crossover" helmets to fit this niche right now. There are some good candidates for cautious and logical modification that will be superior to XC lids. The Deviant is one of them.


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## elohttub (Aug 13, 2004)

*I heard that Reckus is on the way back*

Reckus is making a Switchblade type of helmet to be available in mid summer. Let's see if it happens.


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## wyrm (Jan 19, 2004)

No one mentioning Mace???

I will. I have one and it seems to do very well. The price of comfort and your grill can't be compromised. Get a helmet that protects. Don't worry about being hot or anything else.

My bro also has the Deviant and says that is the best helmet ever. Likes it more than his 661 carbon. The only real way to know is to try them on and see what you like.


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## ender (Jan 12, 2004)

Martin.mac.au said:


> Yeah, bring back the Giro Switchblade you sods. I want a XC helmet with chin protection too. Something that also passes Australian standards too. (I think that's why I haven't seen any Met Para-chutes in Aus)
> 
> sings:
> I'm too sexy for this crash, too sexy for this crash, too sexy YEAHHHHHHH!!!.


ugh, that helmet scares me. i've heard stories of people crashing on the flimsy plastic "face protector" and sending shards of plastic into their face.

DO NOT bring back the switchblade.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

jkish said:


> Today, I sustained an injury that has resulted in this post. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=176970
> 
> I have always believed in using the right tool for the job. I have applied this philosophy to my gear when I ride but unfortunately, at this point in time, the right tool for the job is unavailable. What I am refering to is the appropriate head protection for warm weather aggressive XC riding. Our sport has evolved such that there is a huge demand for a hybrid product that offers a level of protection that is somewhere between that of hardcore, fullface DH models and that of lightweight, highly ventilated XC ones.
> 
> ...


good thoughts...maybe the powers that be


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## jkish (Dec 11, 2004)

*Something like this*

The problem with previous crossover type helmets is that the chin protection looks like it was an afterthought added to an existing XC helmet. The ideal helmet would be built from the ground up to be an ultra ventilated lightweight fullface .

Starting with a shatterproof tubular skeleton, and then embedding it into conventional stryofoam could be the solution. The result would be a cage around the mouth/face area that could take a substantial impact. The impact would be transfered to the styrofoam part as in a conventional design.

The reason why fullface designs have so much padding around the chin area is to keep the helmet in place during a frontal impact. This is why removing padding on existing designs could be risky. If the padding is removed, another way of keeping the helmet in place would be needed. This could be accomplished by a padded chin strap.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

The Specialized Deviant is light and well vented. Much better venting than your Giro full face.

It is possible a even more open version could be made but how it would perform in the required impact tests is unknown.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

What is wrong with this?

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=10718

or

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=2407


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## RED5 (Jan 4, 2004)

kanter said:


> What is wrong with this?
> 
> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=10718


WOW, can't believe Vigor, yes it's made by Vigor same as their Viper, but with a removable chin piece, actually made that thing and someone is using it! That helmet is a piece, I've worn one and it's miserable. Fit's like [email protected] and the chin piece is weird, sits way low if I remember correctly. Not even close to the quality of the old Giro.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Afterthought chin/jaw guards.*



kanter said:


> What is wrong with this?
> 
> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=10718
> 
> ...


Those are tempting, but they seem to fit in the same vein as the Switchblade...not really substantial enough. I had 3 Switchblades. While I liked them better than the traditional open faced XC lid, they don't offer much more in the way of protection. I realize some might look at my modified Pryme AL and be suspicious, but right now it's better than anything else I've looked at, tried, or heard of for a helmet you can actually wear while riding trail in warm weather. Believe me, I'll be more than happy for some company to make a decent one that I can just buy off the shelf. In the interim, my AL is working quite well.


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## jkish (Dec 11, 2004)

TNC said:


> Those are tempting, but they seem to fit in the same vein as the Switchblade...not really substantial enough. I had 3 Switchblades. While I liked them better than the traditional open faced XC lid, they don't offer much more in the way of protection. I realize some might look at my modified Pryme AL and be suspicious, but right now it's better than anything else I've looked at, tried, or heard of for a helmet you can actually wear while riding trail in warm weather. Believe me, I'll be more than happy for some company to make a decent one that I can just buy off the shelf. In the interim, my AL is working quite well.


I'm starting to think that might be the only option at this point...to modify an existing one for better ventilation. The closest helmet off the shelf is the Deviant which looks like it would still bake at 100F.

I was looking at my MadMax and the padding snaps off on the sides. Just as I suspected, it appears that on a frontal impact the sharp front edge would be able to push forward to contact the face. Sewing in a chin strap onto the existing strap looks like it might do the trick.

Without the side padding cranial protection is unaffected just like you said TNC.

The thick shell on the MadMax is overkill for XC riding and could benefit with some more holes. The styrofoam lining already has a bunch of holes like a highly ventilated XC helmet but the fiberglass shell covers the holes up. I'm thinking on cutting openings in the shell to match the styrofoam for more ventilation.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

I always wondered why they don't have a face mask like a football helmet......something to think about it


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

Cutting holes in the shell and/or impact material might not be a good thing. It might work and still be safe, but as long as you leave the external shell and cranial styrofoam intact, you at least know it's safe. From what I've seen up to this point, the Deviant and AL are about the two most vented real full face helmets that I'm aware of. I'd stick with one of them. Cutting into the top of the Mad Max might jeopardize the integrity of the helmet too much. Who knows.


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## jkish (Dec 11, 2004)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> I always wondered why they don't have a face mask like a football helmet......something to think about it


Good point. I think its because the cage would dig into the ground at high speeds causing neck injuries. At lower XC speeds this might not be as much of a problem, especially if the cage was designed with this in mind.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

jkish said:


> Good point. I think its because the cage would dig into the ground at high speeds causing neck injuries. At lower XC speeds this might not be as much of a problem, especially if the cage was designed with this in mind.


like a football helmet does???? HOW ABOUT JUST WIDER face mask bars


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## jkish (Dec 11, 2004)

TNC said:


> Cutting holes in the shell and/or impact material might not be a good thing. It might work and still be safe, but as long as you leave the external shell and cranial styrofoam intact, you at least know it's safe. From what I've seen up to this point, the Deviant and AL are about the two most vented real full face helmets that I'm aware of. I'd stick with one of them. Cutting into the top of the Mad Max might jeopardize the integrity of the helmet too much. Who knows.


I thought about that, but after taking a look at my XC helmets they are basically styrofoam with a thin plastic coating. Surely 3/16" fiberglass with a whole bunch of holes in it is more stronger than a 1/32 plastic coating. On the other hand, with fullface models the shell keeps the chin intact on impact. I think that as long as the chin section of the helmet isn't comprimised it will be perfectly OK for XC. Of course, I wouldn't be doing any shuttle runs with it. Also, what makes the Pryme or Deviant stronger with the holes in it? Nothing, they just have more holes. I don't think they did a CAD analysis for strength/placement. They just cut them where the artist/designer thought they should go, built a prototype and sent it off for testing.

I agree with you that I would much rather buy the proper helmet off the shelf but until then, I think this is what has to be done in order to get the protection and comfort that I need.

I took apart the MadMax after outlining where I'm gonna cut out. Here's some pics. What do you think?


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

jkish said:


> I thought about that, but after taking a look at my XC helmets they are basically styrofoam with a thin plastic coating. Surely 3/16" fiberglass with a whole bunch of holes in it is more stronger than a 1/32 plastic coating. On the other hand, with fullface models the shell keeps the chin intact on impact. I think that as long as the chin section of the helmet isn't comprimised it will be perfectly OK for XC. Of course, I wouldn't be doing any shuttle runs with it. Also, what makes the Pryme or Deviant stronger with the holes in it? Nothing, they just have more holes. I don't think they did a CAD analysis for strength/placement. They just cut them where the artist/designer thought they should go, built a prototype and sent it off for testing.
> 
> I agree with you that I would much rather buy the proper helmet off the shelf but until then, I think this is what has to be done in order to get the protection and comfort that I need.
> 
> I took apart the MadMax after outlining where I'm gonna cut out. Here's some pics. What do you think?


don't cut the shell....you will damage the integrity of the structure.....how it spaces the impact during a crash


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

What about the Vigor Vamoose II? I have run one for 2 years and just ordered another.


Go-Ride has them on sale right now for under $100. They are a step above the Switchblade and they are not a full on DH helmet. Great ventalation


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## JFR (Jan 15, 2004)

jkish said:


> Good point. I think its because the cage would dig into the ground at high speeds causing neck injuries. At lower XC speeds this might not be as much of a problem, especially if the cage was designed with this in mind.


Your accident and this subsequent thread are near and dear to my heart. Thanks for sharing.

Like TNC, I wore a Switchblade trail riding for years (and often pads too, especially knees). I've been longing for an improved replacement and want to sound off with you and the others.

Like SMT, I've also wondered why not the football inspired face guard? It makes perfect sense. I don't buy the idea of it digging into the ground anymore than a dh/mx helmet after a little R&D (as was your point also I believe). I personally think it's been dismissed (or not even considered) simply because it's not the right "look". The mx look sells.

Your concept of a light tubular frame and styrofoam shell is exactly what I dream of too, with the face guard simply the exposed tubular frame, football style. I'll pay a premium price if somebody will make it.

Heal fast jkish.


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

A buddy (FM) has the Met Parachute and likes it a lot. You should look into that if you're serious about this type of a helmet, Jkisch.

The problem with helmets like the switchblade and Met are that there are dumb asses that think they can DH with the helmet when really they're XC helmets with a bit more protection for riding technical or fast XC trails. Next thing you know, said dumb ass is suing Giro because they busted their jaw because they crashed while riding at Whistler or DH racing while using their helmet and, voila, no more Switchblades for people that would actually use them for their intended purpose. That's why Giro doesn't make the Switchblade any longer.

I'd love to see something more along these lines sold in the US again, but no helmet manufacturer (Met included) wants to touch our litigious country with one of those helmets. Instead, we're left with ridiculously hot DH helmets or buying a Met from overseas for way too much money. Pisser, eh?

EBX


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## Tarpon (Jan 16, 2004)

kanter said:


> What about the Vigor Vamoose II? I have run one for 2 years and just ordered another.
> 
> Go-Ride has them on sale right now for under $100. They are a step above the Switchblade and they are not a full on DH helmet. Great ventalation


I'll second the Vamoose II. I had a hard faceplant on Pangor last spring and it did pretty well. The face guard cracked but did its job. I got a minor concussion (blurry vision for about 30 seconds after the crash), the only face injury was a small scrape on the gum (not sure where tha came from, a twig maybe?). That said, I bought another one to replace it. For higher speed riding (like Whistler) I use a Fox V3.


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## finchy (Jan 21, 2004)

i'd say just pick p a deviant, they have like 200 vents lol


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## shanedawg (Jan 9, 2004)

I like the venting on the Deviant, but I returned mine to the store after wearing it around the house for a couple of days. The ancor point for the chin strap is too far back on the helmet. It's closer to the ear than the jaw. This allowed the helmet to pivot up on my head and the chin bar moved up by my nose. I do not have this problem on 661, bell bellestic, or giro switchblade, or madmax helmets. They missed the mark here and I was not willing to crash test the helmet for them. If they fix the chin strap ancor point I think it will be a great helmet. until then I'm keeping my swicthblade for burly trail rides and my bell bellistic helmet for chairlift/shuttle days and dirt jumping.


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## 928freerider (Dec 8, 2005)

Im Wyrms bro and i went with the Deviant because my 661 wasnt cutting it for me. Especially riding in Arizona and Souther Utah it gets pretty hot. As far as protection goes i havent had any complaints. The Deviant is vented very nice and fits my head like a glove. Its even been tested at Virgin a few times and the few times i've crashed its saved my head with no problems. But i agree with the extreme XC helmet idea. Im an Industrial Design major at BYU in Provo, UT and i've been working with Skullcandy on a full face freeride helmet for my inturn but the xc helmet sounds like a good ideas to design on the side.


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## DRIDE (Nov 13, 2005)

TNC, do you know where that Pryme helmet can be picked up online? Seems as if none of my local LBS's/sporting good stores carry them..

Has anyone tried the Giro Remedy http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/HE410A01-Giro+Remedy+Helmet+06.aspx or Azonic Fury http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/HE502A00-Azonic+Fury+Helmet+06.aspx?

In terms of weight they seem relativley light, but may not be as vent-worthy as the deviant/AL..

I also noticed this Pro Tec weighs in @ 770g.. I'm wondering if that is a typo, seeing as all the other helmets weigh in the ~1000g range.. Downside is it appears as if it has little to no ventilation..

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/HE602A03-Pro+Tec+Ace+Spade.aspx


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Seattle Bike Supply*



DRIDE said:


> TNC, do you know where that Pryme helmet can be picked up online? Seems as if none of my local LBS's/sporting good stores carry them..
> 
> Has anyone tried the Giro Remedy http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/HE410A01-Giro+Remedy+Helmet+06.aspx or Azonic Fury http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/HE502A00-Azonic+Fury+Helmet+06.aspx?
> 
> ...


SBS is a fairly big catalog wholesaler to shops. They are the main dealer for Pryme helmets in the U.S. There are also lots of ebay sales of new Pryme AL's and other Pryme helmets.


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## jkish (Dec 11, 2004)

I went ahead and cut out the holes. It looks like it will be magnitudes better for ventilation. I think it will be fine because the shell is pretty darn thick. Next I need to figure out how to keep it stable with the side/chin padding removed. The padding is really hot and I'd like to keep it off of my face. In an impact my face would easily hit the front and sides without it. 

I'm thinking a padded strap riveted in that was just in front of my chin. In an impact my chin would hit the strap and disperse the load across my face. For the side I'm thinking just a thinner layer of padding that was off my face but would give some protection from hitting the helmet.


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## uktrailmonster (Oct 10, 2004)

Personally, I use a Casco Viper MX for trail riding and it seems perfect for this use. Some people argue that the chin guard may not be up to the job, but it seems fairly robust and it's a lot better than having no chin guard at all. In fact the whole helmet is pretty substantial compared to all other standard XC helmets I've seen. For hot weather trail riding, I'd say it's right on the limit and I certainly wouldn't want anything heavier/hotter than this. I don't expect it to give the same level of protection as a full face DH helmet, but then again it's lighter and better ventilated. It's all about compromise. You simply cannot have everything in a single helmet.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

Jay, I don't think there's a big concern about the unpadded front or sides of the chin/jaw guard making contact with your face in an extreme impact. If you notice the pic above of my AL, there is still a foam layer bonded into that part of the shell, so you're not going to make contact with rough fiberglass or ABS material. I think the Mad Max is the same way. I just removed the padded fabric in my AL, which is the main source of heat retention. I'd much rather have my chin, jaw, or mouth make contact with that foam pad than the ground. I did a small unintentional face plant test in Buck Creek's Revenge and couldn't tell if I made contact with the guard or not. Even in a more severe hit, I'll take that slightly less padded chin/jaw guard over the open face alternative and day.


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## Raptordude (Mar 30, 2004)

jkish said:


> I'm starting to think that might be the only option at this point...to modify an existing one for better ventilation. The closest helmet off the shelf is the Deviant which looks like it would still bake at 100F.
> 
> I was looking at my MadMax and the padding snaps off on the sides. Just as I suspected, it appears that on a frontal impact the sharp front edge would be able to push forward to contact the face. Sewing in a chin strap onto the existing strap looks like it might do the trick.
> 
> ...


To be honest, any full face is going to feel hot/bake at 100F. Its not that they don't have enough vents, its just it covers more of your head, therefore trapping heat, I still say deviant since it offers a good mix of everything.


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## NRTH SHORE (Jan 24, 2004)

now when you try to get crash replacement they won't replace your helmet. personaly my 661 full bravo has saved my face a couple of times. id rather suffer a lil than risk my face with a pice of plastic that shatters n cuts up your face....


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## BikeMk (Mar 2, 2004)

ender said:


> ugh, that helmet scares me. i've heard stories of people crashing on the flimsy plastic "face protector" and sending shards of plastic into their face.
> 
> DO NOT bring back the switchblade.


Stop perpetuating ignorant opinions. The switchbalde was pulled due to the fact it had to be handmade in Europe and Giro had greater profit margins on all their other helmets, not because of saftey issues.

Two points 
1) If you examine the evidence, lmost all stories of people breaking face protectors on the switchblade came from people using it for serious DH/FR riding. It was clearly labled all over the freakin box and in each and every ad for the helmet that the switchbalde was *not *intended for DH/FR use.

2) How many people would rather get a few stiches from a lasceration by the faceguard than have to undergo major facial reconstructive surgery because they hit the rock with their face instead of having a faceguard absorb a good amount of the impact? I know I wouldn't mind the former, would you?


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Go-Ride has the Vigor Vamoose II CARBON on sale for $99!!!!!! They were normally $189. The Vigor is the lightest fullface helmet out and it also has the best ventalation I have found in a fullface.


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

BikeMk said:


> Stop perpetuating ignorant opinions. The switchbalde was pulled due to the fact it had to be handmade in Europe and Giro had greater profit margins on all their other helmets, not because of saftey issues.
> 
> Two points
> 1) If you examine the evidence, lmost all stories of people breaking face protectors on the switchblade came from people using it for serious DH/FR riding. It was clearly labled all over the freakin box and in each and every ad for the helmet that the switchbalde was *not *intended for DH/FR use.
> ...


The problem is that people DID wear these helmets for DH and FR purposes and that's where the trouble happened. Hell, I have a buddy that does crazy shite with his switchblade (bike park included) and I keep telling him it's not for those purposes and he shrugs it off, but he accepts the risk. Personally, I think that if a person does that, it's their own fault if they get f'd up.....but accountability isn't our strong suit in the U.S.

Most people know what the helmets intentions are for and don't ride them for the ulta gnarl, but it just took stories of helmets shattering at high speeds and the threat of lawsuits for Giro (owned by Bell) to yank it off the shelves and out of the States for good. Met could sell their similar helmet (the Parachute, I believe) here and make a killing, but they aren't willing to risk the possible liability issues due to American's propensity to sue so it's not distributed to the U.S. either (as told by Met).

I used to see people riding the bike park with switchblades on wondering why the hell they were so concerned about having a lightweight and well ventilated helmet, when I have buddies that are sporting DOT helmets in the park to avoid head injuries at high speed.

Cheers,
EBX


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## BikeMk (Mar 2, 2004)

Giro also yanked the Switchblade abroad..even in Europe where MET claims the liability is so much less (at least that is their reasoning for not selling the parachute on this side of the Atlantic, and I think that we can agree on this point in general). 

So, no matter how much I want to like Giro as a company because they produce helmets that I can adjust to be quite comfortable, they still suck. They know that no one would have a viable lawsuit against them for the helmet being dangerous. In all cases I've heard of, and I've been reading about it for years, the helmet resulted in a significant net gain for the wearer. It is true that Giro could have probably redesigned the faceguard to work better, and it would have come at a weigh and style penalty, but that would have been OK with many people. Giro will come out with a Switchblade design only when they think they can make close to as much money off it as they can off their other helmets or they are afraid of loosing market share. The first situation will never happen. The second is unlikely, but possible. If only Specialized had anchored the chin straps higher up on the shell the Deviant could be worn without the cheek pads (which are currently required for helmet stability) and they would have probably begun to take over the niche market for face protecting XC/AM helmets.


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