# RSD MIddleChild - CrMo



## Rob_D (Feb 5, 2018)

As if I wasn't confused enough :madman:...add another one to the list - MIDDLECHILD Chromoly - RSD

More pics here - https://www.facebook.com/RSD-Bikes-299341806841706/

Head Angle - 64.5°....415-430 mm Chain Stay...which I really have no appreciation for, quite frankly.

And at $1000 CDN more than what you can get a Sarge for now...and $600 more than what you can get a FS Wildcat for now - I have no idea.

Me thinks I'll have to wait until the snow melts and try them out before I decide anything...I just have no frame of reference.


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## triathloner (Apr 5, 2008)

I really like my Sergeant. But I would not pay this money for this bike. It does have XT, but the rims aren't that great IMO.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

This addresses the single thing I would change on my 2017 Ragley BigWig: chainstay length (currently at 435mm).

The thought of being able to slam the chainstays into the 415-420mm range sounds mighty tasty!


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Rob_D said:


> Head Angle - 64.5°....


Keep in mind, this is a hard tail - so you can't directly compare static head tube angles to your full suspension bike.

64.5* (static) head tube angle on a hardtail will be 66* when you're sitting on the bike and riding it. So it'll feel very much like a hardtail version of the new school, long travel 29ers that are the rage right now (E29, Wreckoning, GG Smash, etc.).

And believe me - a long, low, slack, steel AM 29er hardtail is a very, very fun thing!


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## Rob_D (Feb 5, 2018)

06HokieMTB said:


> 64.5* (static) head tube angle on a hardtail will be 66* when you're sitting on the bike and riding it. So it'll feel very much like a hardtail version of the new school, long travel 29ers that are the rage right now (E29, Wreckoning, GG Smash, etc.).
> 
> And believe me - a long, low, slack, steel AM 29er hardtail is a very, very fun thing!


Ah...I learn something every hour!

When I compare the MiddleChild ($3,200 CDN) to RSD's own steel Big Chief 29er (25% off - $2,050 CDN now):
- Child HT slacker by 2.5*
- Child ST steeper by 2.0*
- Child 21 mm shorter ETT
- Child 20 mm shorter ChainStay
- Child 10 mm lower BB
- Child 20 mm less BB drop
- Child 30 mm LESS Stack
- Child 30 mm MORE Reach
- Child 32 mm longer WheelBase

I don't know what all those mean...but I feel smarter writing them down.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Remember, the BigChief is a 29+ bike, where the MiddleChild is a 27.5+ (and presumably 29er).

And, not sure I follow your listed numbers. Looking at a Size Large Child and Chief:

Large Child ETT is 42mm LONGER than the Large Chief. (642mm vs 600mm)

The Child has a massively longer reach than the Chief (good thing)


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## pjames12 (Jan 29, 2017)

That geo in titanium might convince me to buy it as a frame and move the components on my current plus hardtail over.


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## tjstlouis (Nov 28, 2013)

Love the Child! I'm torn between the Guerrilla Gravity Pedalhead and the Middlechild. The GG is made here in CO, but the Child comes in significantly cheaper than a similarly built Pedalhead. 
Pjames12 check out the Kingdom Vendetta X2! Titanium frame with very similar specs to the Child. Seriously stuck here... I love all three! Can't wait to pull the trigger on one of em!


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## pjames12 (Jan 29, 2017)

tjstlouis said:


> Love the Child! I'm torn between the Guerrilla Gravity Pedalhead and the Middlechild. The GG is made here in CO, but the Child comes in significantly cheaper than a similarly built Pedalhead.
> Pjames12 check out the Kingdom Vendetta X2! Titanium frame with very similar specs to the Child. Seriously stuck here... I love all three! Can't wait to pull the trigger on one of em!


Yeah, I saw the Vendetta X2...if it could fit a 3.0 size tire and come in the polished color I'd probably buy it. Just not a fan of the raw frame color. And then the Vendetta LS is just so much pricier, and still has a max size of 2,8.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

I'm thinking Alex has hit a home run with the MiddleChild.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

This iteration is a take from a couple places that could be interesting on many levels.
So many + and fats were nothing more than a repurposed commuter geometry, thus a deal breaker from the word go.
The Middlechild sounds like a play time fun factory. Hmm, might need to get one out and see how trialsy it can be...


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

How would this bike perform with say, 2.5" tires instead of the 2.8? I'm not a yuge fan of plus tires that big.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

kpdemello said:


> How would this bike perform with say, 2.5" tires instead of the 2.8? I'm not a yuge fan of plus tires that big.


Um, +tires are that small and a couple choices are 3.25. Frankly, less than 2.8 is a minus tire.

I would love to take an MC out for a street session and find out what it performs like.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

Minus tires are where it's at for me.

Was just looking at the geometry and seeing that the BB height is already pretty low at 320 mm. My Bronson is 340mm, which I thought was already fairly low. Might be kind of dicey to put smaller tires on this thing, which, unfortunately, kind of rules it out for me.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

As for performance with 2.5's, keep in mind, there are some that are heavier than my 4.8's which is wholly unacceptable. With the BB already at a low position smaller tires may be outta the question.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

kpdemello said:


> Minus tires are where it's at for me.
> 
> Was just looking at the geometry and seeing that the BB height is already pretty low at 320 mm. My Bronson is 340mm, which I thought was already fairly low. Might be kind of dicey to put smaller tires on this thing, which, unfortunately, kind of rules it out for me.


You can't compare the B.B. height of a hardtail and full sus. Dynamic changes in fork length will lower the B.B. of a hardtail much less than dynamic changes in both the rear shock and fork of a full sus. 320 is actually quite tall compared to a lot of bikes like this. Run with a 130 fork it's more than 15mm higher than a Whyte 905 for example.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

All BB heights should be listed as sagged.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

geraldooka said:


> You can't compare the B.B. height of a hardtail and full sus. Dynamic changes in fork length will lower the B.B. of a hardtail much less than dynamic changes in both the rear shock and fork of a full sus. 320 is actually quite tall compared to a lot of bikes like this. Run with a 130 fork it's more than 15mm higher than a Whyte 905 for example.


Hmm. Food for thought. 15mm ought to be enough to compensate for the difference between a 2.8 and a 2.5, no?

Honestly the bigger problem is explaining to the wife why yet another bike appeared in the garage...


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

I have one of those wives that never notices that kind of stuff. If she does it’s too late anyways.  I was suggesting the 130 fork on the MC just to directly compare against the Whyte as it is specified with a 130 as well. At 140 the MC is 320 with 27.5+ supposedly. B.B. height is pretty personal The only way I could confirm it for my use is to test. For me with a 165 crank I’m happy at 310 for a 120 hardtail.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

kpdemello said:


> Hmm. Food for thought. 15mm ought to be enough to compensate for the difference between a 2.8 and a 2.5, no?
> 
> Honestly the bigger problem is explaining to the wife why yet another bike appeared in the garage...


Simple answer, they are breeding! Or the it just followed me home...


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

What would be a good 29er tire size that would be comparable to the 650b 2.8s so that I don't run into low bb issues etc? Thinking of potentially getting a budget 29er wheelset for just around town, some paved trails, maybe a bit of commuting if needed. Would keep aggressive DHFs for real trails obviously. 2.4" minimum? Could I get away with fast rolling 2.25-2.3s, lets say on 25-27mm id rims? Just thinking aloud, have not done any research on this yet.


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## tantrum007 (May 4, 2017)

I talked to Alex (RSD owner) today and he said he literally never gets pedal strikes. That was a concern of mine as well but the BB really isn't close to as low as other bikes. If you are that worried about it - get 170mm cranks and problem solved. 

I was getting pedal strikes on my 10mm lower BB (honzo with 175mm cranks) 170 cleared it up and I couldnt really tell a different in the 5mm difference.

That being said - Does this price point for the child seem right? I believe YT is offering FS bikes with quality components for less. Too bad they are using PF BBs, though.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Did I see someone say that the Middlechild could be ran with 29x2.6 tires? If so that's pretty cool. 

I still hope for a Cromo Sergeant with updates to make it lighter.


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## Fuzzy Dunlop01 (Nov 29, 2015)

tantrum007 said:


> I talked to Alex (RSD owner) today and he said he literally never gets pedal strikes. That was a concern of mine as well but the BB really isn't close to as low as other bikes. If you are that worried about it - get 170mm cranks and problem solved.
> 
> I was getting pedal strikes on my 10mm lower BB (honzo with 175mm cranks) 170 cleared it up and I couldnt really tell a different in the 5mm difference.
> 
> That being said - Does this price point for the child seem right? I believe YT is offering FS bikes with quality components for less. Too bad they are using PF BBs, though.


The Honzo BB should be at least 15mm higher, maybe 25 depending on which version of the frame.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## HOLSHOT59 (Jun 23, 2015)

Has anyone got one yet. Looking for some ride reports.


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## Fuzzy Dunlop01 (Nov 29, 2015)

Fuzzy Dunlop01 said:


> The Honzo BB should be at least 15mm higher, maybe 25 depending on which version of the frame.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


Honzo should be LOWER*

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## Fuzzy Dunlop01 (Nov 29, 2015)

HOLSHOT59 said:


> Has anyone got one yet. Looking for some ride reports.


This

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

HOLSHOT59 said:


> Has anyone got one yet. Looking for some ride reports.


Check out fat-bike.com

They have one with Dustin Carlson testing in Utah.

I really wanna add one to my 3 RSD collection but I need another bike like a hole in the head!

It could be really awesome with a -20 or zero drop BB.


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)




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## HOLSHOT59 (Jun 23, 2015)

So what are you guys thinking of the bike. Thinking about ordering one soon.


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

Full suspension bikes are under 30 pounds these days.
No Hard Tail, not even a plus bike should be over 30

Just over 30 pounds with a dropper, 
I'll stick to my large frame aluminum dropper equipped plus bike at 27.5 pounds.

I wonder how many even notice that some Hard Tails are heavy ?
Maybe It's not that big of a deal but I climb some big hills.


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## HOLSHOT59 (Jun 23, 2015)

Osco said:


> Full suspension bikes are under 30 pounds these days.
> No Hard Tail, not even a plus bike should be over 30
> 
> Just over 30 pounds with a dropper,
> ...


what bike are you riding? I'm open to suggestions.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Osco said:


> Full suspension bikes are under 30 pounds these days.
> No Hard Tail, not even a plus bike should be over 30
> 
> Just over 30 pounds with a dropper,
> ...


I think you are putting too much emphasis on weight. Some bikes ride way lighter than they feel. 
Quite a few of us climb big hills with over 30lb hardtails.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Can anyone compare one of these to a Niner Ros? I had a niner Sir in a medium before the Ros and the Ros I now have is a small.

I sold the Sir to pick up the Ros. The Sir was crazy fast but with a 27.2 seat tube and no internal routing a dropper was not in the cards. I like the Ros but I feel rather cramped on the small. All my other bikes are mediums.

If I pick one of the RSD bikes up it'll be swapped to SS and end up with my DVO fork on it. I figure for the price I'll buy a complete and sell the parts.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

terrible said:


> Can anyone compare one of these to a Niner Ros? I had a niner Sir in a medium before the Ros and the Ros I now have is a small.
> 
> I sold the Sir to pick up the Ros. The Sir was crazy fast but with a 27.2 seat tube and no internal routing a dropper was not in the cards. I like the Ros but I feel rather cramped on the small. All my other bikes are mediums.
> 
> If I pick one of the RSD bikes up it'll be swapped to SS and end up with my DVO fork on it. I figure for the price I'll buy a complete and sell the parts.


That might be a lil difficult as the Middle has a "bike park" undertone to its geometry. Dunno if Niner offers anything that playful.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

FYI - https://fat-bike.com/2018/09/rsd-middle-child-review/


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## HOLSHOT59 (Jun 23, 2015)

I just got my Middle Child last Thursday. Don't have a lot of time on it yet but what a fun capable bike.


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## stiingya (Apr 30, 2004)

nitrousjunky said:


> FYI - https://fat-bike.com/2018/09/rsd-middle-child-review/


Thanks for that! Good to see a review, saw recent comments, but maybe you have to be signed in to add to them as I didn't see the way?

Not sure why anyone would review a bike with tubes and then critique the bike for flats. Maybe if the bike or review was intended as a first time rider review? (but an aggressive geometry longer travel steel hardtail really shouldn't be the what you pick for such a review or suggest for first timers)

Also, riding technique, tires, air pressure have WAY more to do with getting a pinch flat than the rim profile. (Minions, so it wasn't the tire, he did at least fess up about technique but I didn't see the pressure/rider weight?)

Wish RSD would have done a RAW version...

ALSO, I just noticed the bike is advertised at 650US right next to this thread. But it's 770US on their website, there is something about a 10% tariff increase, but that's more like a 20% increase...? So half of that is the President's fault, but half of that is...?


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## RSD Bikes (Sep 18, 2009)

Frame is $649. The new Tariff is 10%, so + $65 + $60 shipping. Rounded down = $769


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## HOLSHOT59 (Jun 23, 2015)

stiingya said:


> Thanks for that! Good to see a review, saw recent comments, but maybe you have to be signed in to add to them as I didn't see the way?
> 
> Not sure why anyone would review a bike with tubes and then critique the bike for flats. Maybe if the bike or review was intended as a first time rider review? (but an aggressive geometry longer travel steel hardtail really shouldn't be the what you pick for such a review or suggest for first timers)
> 
> ...


I agree with what you are saying about the review. The wheels are the only week point I see in the build. I figured I'll run them until they break and replace them then. So far the wheels and tires are holding up pretty well to some pretty nasty rocks. Have a couple big slices and gouges in the tires after about 75ish miles.


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## jcitizen1 (Jun 28, 2011)

Team, thought I should chime in.

I've had a middle child since last spring and it's the best hardtail I've had so far (previous: 16 Honzo, 15 Rootdown, 12 OnOne 456, 11 Kona Unit).

I was a bit worried it would be too slack, now I can't believe I ever rode a steeper bike, this works so well.

Set up: 
140mm Pike with short offset (41?)
27.5 x 2.6 Nobby Nics
Chainstay slammed
150mm dropper

Love this bike. I rode it with 2.8s but now with 2.6s the thing flies up ****, but doesn't feel held back going down. I'm not really sold on the benefits of PLUS tires unless your trails area really rocky/crusty/ugly or you are a bad rider and want a confidence boost. Not worth the weight / rolling penatly for me.

I ride a process 111 as well, which is great, but I actually find this is the bike I feel the need to chat about after a ride. Just rips and feels super confident going off and down stuff, while getting me up super tight switchbacks without an issue. Love the way it looks in stealth black, too.


__
http://instagr.am/p/Bm9EoYjh8Ys/


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## stiingya (Apr 30, 2004)

RSD Bikes said:


> Frame is $649. The new Tariff is 10%, so + $65 + $60 shipping. Rounded down = $769


Thanks for the clarification. Saw the $60 bucks to ship, but didn't realize it was included. NICE!


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## HOLSHOT59 (Jun 23, 2015)

Anyone try their Child as a 29er. I have an extra set of 29er wheels and am trying to decide if I should set them up to run as a single speed with some lighter tires or just leave a regular cassette on it. Thoughts?


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## tantrum007 (May 4, 2017)

I'd also like to know.


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

Curious whats everyone's thoughts on throwing the new RSD rigid fork designed for the new Sergeant v3 on the Middlechild for winter duty? Both Middlechild and Sergeant v3 come stock with 140mm 550AC fork, but Middlechild is 2deg slacker, but not sure how much that matters.

https://www.rsdbikes.com/product/510mm-aluminum-fork/


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## HOLSHOT59 (Jun 23, 2015)

kryten said:


> Curious whats everyone's thoughts on throwing the new RSD rigid fork designed for the new Sergeant v3 on the Middlechild for winter duty? Both Middlechild and Sergeant v3 come stock with 140mm 550AC fork, but Middlechild is 2deg slacker, but not sure how much that matters.
> 
> https://www.rsdbikes.com/product/510mm-aluminum-fork/


Sounds like it would be a fun setup to switch things up. Maybe even throw a 3.8 fat tire on the front with a 3.0 out back.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

What's the benefit of running rigid in winter over suspension?

Just my opinion, but 3vs3.8 in the front with only 3 in the back isn't going to make much difference on snow.


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

chelboed said:


> What's the benefit of running rigid in winter over suspension?
> 
> Just my opinion, but 3vs3.8 in the front with only 3 in the back isn't going to make much difference on snow.


I would stick with 3" front and back. I don't really need a fatbike anymore, enough traffic on my trails that it packs down quickly. I just like simplicity for winter. Had plenty of issues with droppers, hydraulic brakes and suspension in winter. Maybe I'm just really unlucky.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Hmmm...a decent quality fork like a Pike that I believe comes spec'd on the Child should be fine in winter.

Either way, it should work great on that bike and could be a fun way to mix it up a bit.


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

Mine was a frame build and has a Yari on it. Will see what happens, but if I ever go that route, I think this may be the fork to go with.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Yari is just a Lyrik with a MoCo damper. Bombproof fork. I love them. I've got one on my trail bike. Overkill but will live forever. I can't imagine needing more on a hardtail.

I can remember riding some of the early suspension forks in mountain biking. It's amazing the crap we put ourselves through with forks like the Mag21...Indy...Psylo. Most people now days would rather ride rigid than that old crap.

But Motion Control damping with 34mm stanchions and QR15 Boost with disc brakes? Holy smokes, it's a good time to be a biker. Charger RC3 is kinda over the top on a hardtail IMO. Yari is the pimp!


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## HOLSHOT59 (Jun 23, 2015)

Cracked the rear rim. Replace it and added cushcore will see if it helps any.


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## scoon (Aug 26, 2005)

This bike really ticks all the right boxes for me. I am really interested in running it 27.5 x 2.4 though. Wondering what your thoughts on this would be?


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## HOLSHOT59 (Jun 23, 2015)

scoon said:


> This bike really ticks all the right boxes for me. I am really interested in running it 27.5 x 2.4 though. Wondering what your thoughts on this would be?


my concern for where I ride would be that it is lowering the bottom bracket. But depending on where you ride it could make for a more playful bike.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I just finished up building my RSD middle child. What a blast!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Dammit! 

Anyone know how to turn off the power on the Tennis Ball Yellow so the batteries don't wear down?

Needless to say, a lovely brown box arrived yesterday with "Brown Santa" ringing the doorbell! Yay!! The collective grows to include a bright as the sun yeller frame! Cannot wait to build up a single speed fun factory!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

scoon said:


> This bike really ticks all the right boxes for me. I am really interested in running it 27.5 x 2.4 though. Wondering what your thoughts on this would be?


Go for it. It'll only lower the bb by 1/4-1/2". I don't think it'll be a problem, especially if you run 170mm cranks. I love a low bb feel anyway, but some people don't.


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## So Cal RX (Oct 1, 2005)

Frame arrived last night. Stoked to build it up with parts I've had stored in boxes for too long. I'm hoping I made the right choice by going with a medium (I'm just under 5'9"). I figured I could run a short stem and might need to go with a shorter dropper post. I'll post photos once it's built!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I think you made the right call with a medium, especially if you ride steep terrain.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

That new bike smell...

The Middlechild is built up as a single speed! This damn bike has quite a pithy attitude and is a blast. Cannot wait to hit the desert when it drys out some.
Thankya, Alex! 

Rear dropouts are almost slammed with the exception of adjustment to set chain tension. Tires are Nobby Nic and Rocket Ron 27.5 x 3.0 just cause I like the feel of 3.0 vs. 2.less. Clearance is good where it really counts, over the crown of the tire. Side clearance is 7-8mm which is peachy for a beanpole ass rider that does not to the bull in a china shop.

I love the hell outta my pithy, tennis ball yeller bike! 

Streetin was a blast as snow was falling, bike was sending a stripe up my back, and there were plenty of wonderful obstacles to test the session ability.

Fun ride, playtime bike, indeed...


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Guy.Ford said:


> Pics or it didnt happen, you know the rules.


Phuck fones! I was busy snortin that new bike smell without interruption...


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## gerryl (Aug 10, 2014)

sixstringsteve,

Let us know when you get some rides in on your middlechild. My list for a 29er steel hardtail is down to the moxie, pedalhead, ns eccentric, or middlechild.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Damn, the MIddleChild makes for a great single speed experience. It's been a pleasure to get out and test the new member of the collective.

Sixstring, looking forward to hearing bout your new friend.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Here's mine... Built it up with parts off a Marin Rift Zone, rode it once, loved it and sold the Marin with the parts. Built it up as a 29er single speed, but just don't have time to ride as much as I used to and have another baby on the way. Decided to sell locally if anybody is interested and near Asheville, NC. Beautiful bike. Honestly, I bought it because I love the color, but it is a blast to ride. Customer service is also the best I have ever dealt with.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I'm so confused by that post. Where is the singlespeed?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

mountainbiker24 said:


> Here's mine... Built it up with parts off a Marin Rift Zone, rode it once, loved it and sold the Marin with the parts. Built it up as a 29er single speed, but just don't have time to ride as much as I used to and have another baby on the way. Decided to sell locally if anybody is interested and near Asheville, NC. Beautiful bike. Honestly, I bought it because I love the color, but it is a blast to ride. Customer service is also the best I have ever dealt with.
> 
> View attachment 1239221


I do like the colour. 

Keep the bike. You will need some mental health breaks with a new baby. Even a 45min ride close to home will change your head space and be therapeutic.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

gerryl said:


> sixstringsteve,
> 
> Let us know when you get some rides in on your middlechild. My list for a 29er steel hardtail is down to the moxie, pedalhead, ns eccentric, or middlechild.


I've been on 3 solid rides with it and I really like it. I tend to prefer technical terrain over long distance rides. I love the bike. Susprisingly enough, it's slightly stiffer at the bb junction thne my aluminum chameleon.

I haven't ridden a moxie before, but I wanted a shorter chainstay than the pedal head, and I was worried the square tubing would be more riding than I want. I'm happy to answer any questions you have, but I am biased as I ride for rsd.

For my riding style, I'd never feel comfortable on a hardtail with anything steeper than a 65*, hta.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

chelboed said:


> I'm so confused by that post. Where is the singlespeed?


In my garage. Those pics are of the original build that I rode once then stripped and sold on my Marin Rift Zone. It makes sense in my head, but likely not as much in print...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

mountainbiker24 said:


> Here's mine... Built it up with parts off a Marin Rift Zone, rode it once, loved it and sold the Marin with the parts. Built it up as a 29er single speed, but just don't have time to ride as much as I used to and have another baby on the way. Decided to sell locally if anybody is interested and near Asheville, NC. Beautiful bike. Honestly, I bought it because I love the color, but it is a blast to ride. Customer service is also the best I have ever dealt with.
> 
> View attachment 1239221
> 
> View attachment 1239222


I thought the bike was the "new baby"! :thumbsup:

Good point, Vikb.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

vikb said:


> I do like the colour.
> 
> Keep the bike. You will need some mental health breaks with a new baby. Even a 45min ride close to home will change your head space and be therapeutic.


Sound advice that I probably should take. However, I am building up a 509 Cycles Jabit fat bike, and I figure a couple wheelsets for that and I don't have time or need for a second bike. I've said that before and regretted it, but I really don't get out nearly as often as I used to. I'm excited about a second child, but mourning the death of my available riding time.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

BansheeRune said:


> I thought the bike was the "new baby"! :thumbsup:
> 
> Good point, Vikb.


Haha! Not this time.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

gerryl said:


> sixstringsteve,
> 
> Let us know when you get some rides in on your middlechild.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

That trail looks like a riot!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Definitely one of my favorite trails out there. And most locals don't even know about it.


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## So Cal RX (Oct 1, 2005)

sixstringsteve said:


> I think you made the right call with a medium, especially if you ride steep terrain.


Thanks sixstringsteve. Your video got me amped up for the Middle Child too. Fun looking trail!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

The more I play with my new bike, the more hooked I become!

Damn, I love the hell outta this bike! The handling, the ride and feel are just amazing. Singlespeed turns out to have been a truly excellent choice for this build, with its simplicity and getting the gearing right for mountain living has been great. 

While this frame is based on 2.8 being optimal, I have run Rocket Ron and Nobby Nic both ends in 3.0 with zero issue. There may be some 3.0's out there that are a tad too close for comfort however, the choices I have on hand offer plenty of clearance and feel like a match made in heaven.

So Cal, did you order one yet? 

Steve, thanks for sharing the video. Good stuff to see some M/C dirtin goin on!


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I really dig the vid too.

So realistically...is a Rocket Ron and Nobby Nic not a true 3" tire, or does the bike actually clear a true 3"?


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## So Cal RX (Oct 1, 2005)

So Cal RX said:


> Frame arrived last night. Stoked to build it up with parts I've had stored in boxes for too long. I'm hoping I made the right choice by going with a medium (I'm just under 5'9"). I figured I could run a short stem and might need to go with a shorter dropper post. I'll post photos once it's built!





sixstringsteve said:


> I think you made the right call with a medium, especially if you ride steep terrain.


Finally have mine built up. Bought new SLX brakes and a One Up dropper I'm waiting for, but otherwise built with parts I already had: old Fox 34 fork that was recently rebuilt by Fox with updated internals, Ibis 738 wheels, DHF 2.5 fr, Rekon 2.6 rear, NX crank, XT shifter/der. Weighs 30.5 which is funny only because it's ~3 lbs. heavier than my Mojo3. Will gain a little with the dropper, but will lose a little when I go tubeless. Trails here were rained out, so have only ridden it around the complex. Medium feels great (50mm stem). Hopefully will get it out on the trails this coming weekend and will post my thoughts.


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## So Cal RX (Oct 1, 2005)

BansheeRune said:


> The more I play with my new bike, the more hooked I become!
> 
> Damn, I love the hell outta this bike! The handling, the ride and feel are just amazing. Singlespeed turns out to have been a truly excellent choice for this build, with its simplicity and getting the gearing right for mountain living has been great.
> 
> ...


Great to hear the stoke for this bike! Just posted my build update. Still need to get it out on the dirt. Hopefully soon!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

chelboed said:


> I really dig the vid too.
> 
> So realistically...is a Rocket Ron and Nobby Nic not a true 3" tire, or does the bike actually clear a true 3"?


My pair of NN's measure 2.99 @ 12 psi. RR's are very close to the same. Frankly, my interest drops like bus out the back of a C-130 when tires are labeled anything less than 3.0. Clearance is plentiful as this rig is capable of 29 x 2.6. It is narrow back there with 8-10mm side clearance and 18-20mm over the crown of the tire.
I'll try a Crux just for shits n grins.

So Cal, thanks for the update! Looks da part, indeed. 
My lemon flavored bike is a large with a 70mm stem for that straight 8 length necessary for a bloke that can pass a joint across a room without getting outta the chair. So far it's only been a few narrow passages that require finesse and street sessions. Mud and snow are king right now.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Noice!!!


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

sixstringsteve said:


>


That looked like fun? What trail is that?


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Those trails are in Tucson, az. Several different trails. Most was on cowboy slick rock and middle gate. It's way steeper in person than it looks on video (as it always is). I've got some Sedona videos on the Mc coming soon. Hit hiline and hogs on the middle child. It was pretty awesome.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Damn, six string... I need to get down there again soon for daily ride addiction fixes and Mom's cooking...
Not to mention my three RSD's could use some warm, sunny dirtin!


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

sixstringsteve said:


>


very cool! Do you feel the difference in weight vs the Santa Cruz?


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## bobman7 (May 13, 2005)

I got mine last fall, built up with the kit off of my GG Smash after I sold that frame. Rode some DH on it, took it out to Moab, loved it! Over the winter I decided to swap over to 27.5 for a bit softer ride...no rides on the new wheels yet but I can't wait! Gotta wait for ski season to end first though...


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Not while riding. I only feel the difference in weight when I pick it up and load it on a bike rack. It's kind of like being able to feel the difference between when your water bottle is full or empty on your bike while riding. It's tons more fun to ride than my chameon.


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## So Cal RX (Oct 1, 2005)

So Cal RX said:


> Finally have mine built up. Bought new SLX brakes and a One Up dropper I'm waiting for, but otherwise built with parts I already had: old Fox 34 fork that was recently rebuilt by Fox with updated internals, Ibis 738 wheels, DHF 2.5 fr, Rekon 2.6 rear, NX crank, XT shifter/der. Weighs 30.5 which is funny only because it's ~3 lbs. heavier than my Mojo3. Will gain a little with the dropper, but will lose a little when I go tubeless. Trails here were rained out, so have only ridden it around the complex. Medium feels great (50mm stem). Hopefully will get it out on the trails this coming weekend and will post my thoughts.


The trails dried out, so I finally took the Middlechild out for a ride!









First off, the geometry and fit felt great. Glad I went with a medium. I still may try a shorter stem, but the reach didn't feel excessive. The bottom bracket height actually felt higher than my other bikes, so no concern for me running 27.5 x 2.5 and 27.5 x 2.6 at all. On lap 1, I had my fork psi too high, but after I adjusted it, the all mountain hardtail concept suddenly made much more sense

Overall impressions of the bike: it makes technical, rocky climbs a bit more challenging vs. my FS bike, but overall is very capable and a whole lot of fun.

I plan to install my dropper today and also convert to tubeless, but so far so good.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Running lower psi is crucial for technic climbing on a hardtail. In some instances my hardtail climbs better than my full suspension (I run plus tires at low pressures), and in other instances my full suspension is able to maintain traction a little better. Glsd you're loving your muddle child, it's a fantastic bike.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Congratz, So Cal.... The adventures ahead will be awesome, indeed!

The MIddleChild has been a load of fun. Now I need some dry dirt for a good shakedown.
Fork is set for a good singltrack ride and waiting. With 3.0's, air pressure will be tweaked 
on the trail.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm running cuschcore on my middle child and it's a really great investment. It helps me find the sweet spot for tire pressure better. And it doesn't make the tires squirmy and it protects the rim too.


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## So Cal RX (Oct 1, 2005)

hardtail party said:


> Running lower psi is crucial for technic climbing on a hardtail. In some instances my hardtail climbs better than my full suspension (I run plus tires at low pressures), and in other instances my full suspension is able to maintain traction a little better. Glsd you're loving your muddle child, it's a fantastic bike.


Good call on the tire pressure. I had the psi at ~28 to be conservative because of the tubes. I'll lower that down when I go tubeless, and also look into the cushcore. I did get the dropper on today


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Nice! To save 15% at cushcore, use coupon code "HTparty19"


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

The middle child is an amazing climber too.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

How does the MC compare to Surly's V 2.0 Instagator?
I tried my best (really?) to compare numbers, but, my eyes glaze over and my mind wanders off to the trail head.....
Has anyone ridden each?


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I haven't ridden an instigator, but it looks pretty close in geo to a chameleon, something I have ridden a lot. On paper, it will ride quite different from a middle child. An instigator has a nice short chainstay (same as the middle child) but a steeper head angle. For flatter trails and climbs, most people will prefer the instigator. For technical downhills and faster speeds, the middle child will feel a lot more stable and enjoyable.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

1spd1way said:


> How does the MC compare to Surly's V 2.0 Instagator?
> I tried my best (really?) to compare numbers, but, my eyes glaze over and my mind wanders off to the trail head.....
> Has anyone ridden each?


If you drop a -2 deg headset into the Instigator you'll have a HTA of 65.5 deg vs the MC at 64.5 deg. That closes the gap on that geo element quite a bit.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm not a surly expert, but it appears that the surly is a non-boost frame (142mm). Good info if you're trying to swap an existing wheelset over.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

1spd1way said:


> How does the MC compare to Surly's V 2.0 Instagator?
> I tried my best (really?) to compare numbers, but, my eyes glaze over and my mind wanders off to the trail head.....
> Has anyone ridden each?


Instagator 2.0 is 26+ and MC is 27.5+. Unless you are moving 26+ stuff over from another frame you are better of with a MC.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

My gator is now 27.5+.
Just wondering if it's worth swapping frames.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

Thanks for the replies.
Small frames are out of stock at RSD, so navel gazing at this point.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

What ride characteristics are you looking for? Anything you don't like about your instagator?


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

1spd1way said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> Small frames are out of stock at RSD, so navel gazing at this point.


Guess I'll have to wait for re-stock too!

I think some of my Airborne Griffin parts would swap over ok. Although I think I have to convert the Manitou fork to 140mm


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

Love the gator. 
It's getting to be spring time in Maine.....new bike fever is raging.

Must resist......


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

1spd1way said:


> love the gator.
> It's getting to be spring time in maine.....new bike fever is raging.
> 
> Must resist......


*resistance is futile!!*


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

1spd1way said:


> My gator is now 27.5+.
> Just wondering if it's worth swapping frames.


All in all, this is a question you will have to sort. I am not familiar with the Gator or it's geometry. 
I can say, the M/C is a very fun playful bike. Weight, pfft! I don't tend to worry too much there lest it's plain obese.

One thing, you might wanna ping Alex to get an idea of lead time on it. I know the Sergeant is mid spring arrival for the new frame.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

hahhahha! You must comply!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Your technology will be added to our own...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Finally, some dirt is ready for treads! This bike loves singltrack, gully runs and punchy ascents with curvy descents following.
The interesting thing is that it feels amazingly nimble for a bike wearing 3.0's on 50mm rims.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

BansheeRune said:


> View attachment 1244242
> 
> 
> View attachment 1244243
> ...


Nice!!! What gearing combo is pictured?


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

Here are a few pics of my middlechild build

































RSD Middlechild 4130 chromo frame - medium
SR Suntour Auron set at 150mm
The Inside Line mud fender
WTB 29" Asym i29 rims on Hope hub (front) - DT Swiss 350 (rear)
Shimano XT 11 speed derailleur/shifter
Sunrace 11-46t Cassette
SLX cranks with 34t Raceface narrow wide chainring
Shimano Zee brakes
Chromag FUBARS OSX chrome handle bars cut to 750mm
Thompson X4 50mm stem
Cane Creek Headset
OneUp 170mm dropper post
Nukeproof Horizon Sam Hill pedals
Specialized Butcher GRID 2.6 front tire
Maxxis Aggressor 2.3 DD rear tire
Cushcore front and rear


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## gerryl (Aug 10, 2014)

Chris705. Nice build. Give a ride report when you have time. Glad to see a middlechild as a 29er. A cromoly 29er is on my list for this year. :thumbsup:


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

gerryl said:


> Chris705. Nice build. Give a ride report when you have time. Glad to see a middlechild as a 29er. A cromoly 29er is on my list for this year. :thumbsup:


I got my first ride on it today. It wasn't out in the rocky mountains like I hoped, since winter isn't giving up yet. So I settled for riding a mellow area near by my house.

I am coming from a Kona Honzo and a Banshee Phantom, both in medium. Which are awesome bikes in their own ways. To compare geometry, the Middlechild is about 60mm longer in wheelbase and 20-30mm longer in reach than my previous bikes. Head angle is 3° slacker. Parts spec is almost identical to both bikes since I swapped parts over from the Phantom and the Honzo has an almost identical build.

The climbs in this area are fairly mellow with a few steep sections. In the steeper bits I noticed a bit more wheel flop but nothing unmanageable.

Descending in this network is also mellow. There are some wide open very fast sections. The Middlechild is much more stable and confident at speed. Garmin says my max speed was 51.5kph (32mph) and I did not feel overwhelmed with that speed. There's nothing special for cornering there as well, but today, since we are in the shoulder season, sun exposed areas are dry and shaded areas are still wet and greasy. I ended up getting sideways when there was a greasy corner in the shade. I can tell the length of the bike will make it very fun at high speed cornering.

My only small concern about the bike is the bottom bracket height. Since it is a 650b+ bike it has a 40mm BB drop. 29er specific hardtail frames usually have closer to 60mm BB drops. Today, I couldn't figure out if this would affect the bikes handling enough on descents since this is not the kind of terrain I typically ride on. I also suspect the bottom bracket height will help with technical climbing, which there are many in the mountains nearby.

I will update my impression of this frame once I get to ride it more in a variety of conditions.









Edit: I do not know why my some of my pics are being rotated 90°.

But I gotta brag... That is a pretty sick huck to vertical...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

nitrousjunky said:


> Nice!!! What gearing combo is pictured?


Thankya, Nitrous! 

28x18 at the moment. It's been great for punchy climbs that are steep. As for open flats, speed is good enough since I cadence high as a general rule.
Fuel economy is expressed in sammiches per hour with this bike.

Heya Chris! Nice build, indeed... Hope you can get in some quality time soon. All I have been able to do is much similar.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm riding Bentonville for the next 2 weeks, and the middle child is the perfect bike for this terrain. I think I could get away with a 29er ss setup for most of this stuff.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

How do you feel about the road gaps on a hardtail? I'm struggling with the thought of putting my Stache rear wheel through that type of torture.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I haven't seen the road gaps yet, but a smooth rider can get away with a lot on a hardtail, especially with cushcore.


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## jeckyll84 (Jul 10, 2007)

chris705 said:


> Here are a few pics of my middlechild build
> 
> RSD Middlechild 4130 chromo frame - medium
> SR Suntour Auron set at 150mm
> ...


Do you have a weight for your build?


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

chelboed said:


> How do you feel about the road gaps on a hardtail? I'm struggling with the thought of putting my Stache rear wheel through that type of torture.


Not sure if you saw on my Instagram, but I cleared drop the hammer (road gap) and the diving board at coler on my middle child. The features are built extremely well, and it was a smooth landing.


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

jeckyll84 said:


> Do you have a weight for your build?


Its no light weight. 35 lbs. The cushcore and 1000+g tires have a lot to do with that weight


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## neabailey (Apr 4, 2008)

chris705 said:


> My only small concern about the bike is the bottom bracket height. Since it is a 650b+ bike it has a 40mm BB drop. 29er specific hardtail frames usually have closer to 60mm BB drops. Today, I couldn't figure out if this would affect the bikes handling enough on descents since this is not the kind of terrain I typically ride on. I also suspect the bottom bracket height will help with technical climbing, which there are many in the mountains nearby.
> 
> I will update my impression of this frame once I get to ride it more in a variety of conditions.
> 
> ...


Any updates on this? My concern was the "high" bottom bracket as well. Ill probably want to run 29" wheels and I'm 6'4" so Im top heavy as it is.


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

...


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## RSD Bikes (Sep 18, 2009)

neabailey said:


> Any updates on this? My concern was the "high" bottom bracket as well. Ill probably want to run 29" wheels and I'm 6'4" so Im top heavy as it is.


With 29er, you could always run a 130mm fork instead of the 140mm


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Sunspot gets out for a lil singletrack railtime! Damn, I love the twists and turns with climbs and descents along the way. Singlespeed on the trail has been great! With the current build based on a 150mm fork, the BB is right where it belongs up and out of the dirt and lending to a playful, delightful ride. Floating the front end is dauntless and is very natural.








A look down a long winding descent that has hillside and a hellacious, rugged 800' drop... Texting and riding is the only way to do this part of the ride! 








Twists







Turns








Partly cloudy, mild breeze/wind and 65... Like riding a bike with AC!

Gear changeup took place and is now 30-18. More cogs ordered for additional changes in the very near future.
Desert voyage is in order! Junktown or bust... 18 road or horse thief, perhaps a few more.

ALEX!! You lil bastage!! Glad to hear Sea Otter was a good adventure for ya...


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

neabailey said:


> Any updates on this? My concern was the "high" bottom bracket as well. Ill probably want to run 29" wheels and I'm 6'4" so Im top heavy as it is.


A stubborn winter and lazy spring hasn't allowed me to get as much time on this bike as I would like. I have 2 rides on my preferred type of terrain. I have noticed the change in head angle and length compared to my previous bikes more than BB height. It doesn't feel bad in that regards. It corners well, is stable at speed and on steeps.

I am running my fork at 150mm. As well Suntours tend to have a slightly higher axle to crown than other forks. The BB on my Middlechild is 330mm vs 315mm on my Honzo with a 140mm fork. If you run your fork at 140mm or 130mm as RSD mentioned I think your bottom bracket height would be pretty reasonable.

RSD also mentioned a 29er specific frame on the horizon in their pinkbike press release a few months ago. I'm looking forward to finding out what that will look like,


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

chris705 said:


> I'm looking forward to finding out what that will look like,


You and me both! Although I'm having a hard time waiting on it, lol.

Tempted to go to a MiddleChild in the mean time.

FYI it should look very similar to the MC in aesthetics, Per Alex.


----------



## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

nitrousjunky said:


> You and me both! Although I'm having a hard time waiting on it, lol.
> 
> Tempted to go to a MiddleChild in the mean time.
> 
> FYI it should look very similar to the MC in aesthetics, Per Alex.


You won't be disappointed with a Middlechild. Lots of people like the option of running 650b+ and 29. When the new frame is released I will consider it as well. It will be interesting to compare the two frames.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

chris705 said:


> You won't be disappointed with a Middlechild. Lots of people like the option of running 650b+ and 29. When the new frame is released I will consider it as well. It will be interesting to compare the two frames.


Here's my hang up, I prefer 29x2.6-3.0 in the 29" flavor and MiddleChild will basically only fit 29x2.6 in the last (rear most) couple milometers of adjustment. If I decide to try a MC, I'll probably switch over to B+ (which is the only modern wheel size I haven't ever ridden). I'm a SSer and I'm not sure I want to give up the roll of the larger OD setup to go B+. However after getting a taste of the modern hardtail geometry, I'm getting very tempted.


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

nitrousjunky said:


> Here's my hang up, I prefer 29x2.6-3.0 in the 29" flavor and MiddleChild will basically only fit 29x2.6 in the last (rear most) couple milometers of adjustment. If I decide to try a MC, I'll probably switch over to B+ (which is the only modern wheel size I haven't ever ridden). I'm a SSer and I'm not sure I want to give up the roll of the larger OD setup to go B+. However after getting a taste of the modern hardtail geometry, I'm getting very tempted.


I have only had my 2.3 Aggressor on the rear so far. I am planning on putting a 2.6 specialized tire on the rear soon. My specialized 2.6 tires tend to measure 2.45-2.5 so not a true 2.6. When I do the swap, I will measure and take pictures so you and others can see what the space is like.


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## carabao (Apr 25, 2006)

nitrousjunky said:


> Here's my hang up, I prefer 29x2.6-3.0 in the 29" flavor and MiddleChild will basically only fit 29x2.6 in the last (rear most) couple milometers of adjustment. If I decide to try a MC, I'll probably switch over to B+ (which is the only modern wheel size I haven't ever ridden). I'm a SSer and I'm not sure I want to give up the roll of the larger OD setup to go B+. However after getting a taste of the modern hardtail geometry, I'm getting very tempted.


For what it's worth, I loved 29er, had a few Honzo's, a Canfield EPO, and a Pivot Switchblade. I never thought I'd like plus or want to go smaller since I preferred 29 to 27.5, but when I got the Middle Child I went complete because I didn't have a boost wheelset and wanted to give it a try with 27 plus, and damn it's fun! It's also capable and flickable and turns on a dime. I don't think you'll regret going 27 plus and I have no desire to go 29 at the moment. I ride out of the saddle 90% of the time but geared not SS and I know the importance of short stays for traction. Now imagine short stays and the added traction of a 2.8 tire. It's incredible climbing and boosts confidence a lot cornering and descending. Likes to get rowdy.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

carabao said:


> For what it's worth, I loved 29er, had a few Honzo's, a Canfield EPO, and a Pivot Switchblade. I never thought I'd like plus or want to go smaller since I preferred 29 to 27.5, but when I got the Middle Child I went complete because I didn't have a boost wheelset and wanted to give it a try with 27 plus, and damn it's fun! It's also capable and flickable and turns on a dime. I don't think you'll regret going 27 plus and I have no desire to go 29 at the moment. I ride out of the saddle 90% of the time but geared not SS and I know the importance of short stays for traction. Now imagine short stays and the added traction of a 2.8 tire. It's incredible climbing and boosts confidence a lot cornering and descending. Likes to get rowdy.


Thanks for the input. Yep, short stays and plus tires make for great traction (I'm on a 29+ Trek Stache)!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Plus is a blast on the switchblade too!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Last month I decided to hit Hiline on my rsd middle child. It did so well. I can't imagine another hardtail I'd rather have out there.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Lookin the part, Hardtail...

I cannot get enough of my M/C with the awesome feel of nimble, excellences in handling these bikes possess, it just flows. Much like a unit going along a trail. My bike is single speed. Now that I've spent some miles on the loco trails and am getting to know this bike, I just love the performance and attitude of the M/C. When I first referred to my bike as a pithy little fellow, I didn't know how well that term described my bike named Sunspot. Lil' fukker's a delight!


Thanks for sharing a vid of what looked like a great run!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Easter Sunday ride with the M/C! 

Between rains, out I headed for a gully run and some singletrack speed runs. Partly to test the new gear ratio and partly to spend some quality time with this awesome new bike. The gully crossings are fantastic. The M/C feels so damn good flying off the edge and flying out the other side of the gully. The gully run is a slalom course that is a blast as well. This bike is very well suited for this terrain with the geometry being spot on for it. 
Had to shut it down due to a heavy rain incoming and the M/C is not CSA/UL approved as a lightning suppression device. :/

Happy Easter and Passover to all...


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## neabailey (Apr 4, 2008)

Just curious, is there any MC riders on the thread that aren't ambassador of RSD? Just looking for unbiased thoughts on the bike.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

neabailey said:


> Just curious, is there any MC riders on the thread that aren't ambassador of RSD? Just looking for unbiased thoughts on the bike.


Frankly, I refuse to misrepresent a bike based on what company is behind it. Either the bike performs to my liking or it's outta heah.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

neabailey said:


> Just curious, is there any MC riders on the thread that aren't ambassador of RSD? Just looking for unbiased thoughts on the bike.


I'm not an ambassador. What do you want to know?


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

yzedf said:


> I'm not an ambassador. What do you want to know?


I'd want to hear as much feedback as possible on a bike I can't ride. What it does good, what it could do better, what you'd change, how it compares to others you've ridden. Ride impressions, how it feels, how it accelerates, how it turns, all the dynamic intangibles that are mainly attributed to frame design that are only felt by riding it. Please..


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

drivera said:


> I'd want to hear as much feedback as possible on a bike I can't ride. What it does good, what it could do better, what you'd change, how it compares to others you've ridden. Ride impressions, how it feels, how it accelerates, how it turns, all the dynamic intangibles that are mainly attributed to frame design that are only felt by riding it. Please..


I bought the bike as a frame, it came with a headset, seat clamp and a rear axle. I didn't use the axle as I prefer bolt on. The frame built up very easy, bb threads were clean, head tube was good. The only nitpick is a couple small blemishes at the top of the seat tube that you can't see unless you know to look. Doesn't bother me, but some people wouldn't be able to deal with it. The rubber insert for the dropper post cable actually works!

The rear axle is very secure, important for me as I'm running it as a singlespeed. No creaks either.

The bike is a natural jumper, very easy to land smoothly. Manuals are easy, as is moving the rear around. It's not XC agile, it's more stable than that, but not as stable as an enduro bike (I ride a 2017 Giant Reign SX also). You can plow on it if you get in over your head and you just need to hold on for a couple seconds. It's also a better climber than I was expecting, I broke a PR by over 2 minutes tonight on what's usually a 7 minute segment. BB height is good, not too high or low, I'm running it with 170 cranks as my local area has a lot of rocks and roots I need to pedal through. BB and chainstays are nice and stiff, cranks don't twist/flex.

My build is 29.4lbs (with pedals and Garmin) for a size large with EXO casing tires, 150 dropper and no carbon parts. Weight isn't a concern, but it did come out lighter than expected. A nice surprise.

Buying process was easy, frame shipped the day the owner said it would and was delivered on time.

Only thing I'd change would be longer chainstays, but I'm probably in the minority in that point.

Bike reminds me of a Chromag, but at a reasonable price. Doesn't have that BMX sting when landing jumps/drops.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

Thank you! Great feedback. I’m surprised on your weight as well! Throw a pic up if you haven’t already. Would like to see it!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Im an ambassador, but i can give some feedback. The middle child has a pretty stiff rear end for a steel bike. My alloy chameleon had a more compliant rear triangle. Despite it being stiff, it isn't harsh like most alloy bikes.

The geo and handling is fantastic for aggressive moves, high speeds, and gnarly terrain. This wouldnt be my first choice for an xc or trail bike, bit for all mountain and ensuro style trails, it's completely in its element. Its a bruiser.

To me, it corners better than any other hardtail ive ridden, but i corner with my feet, not with steering the bars. Its a manual machine, easy to the bunnyhop, jump, and wheelie. Downsides? Its heavy, like most other aggressive hardtails. Upsides? Cost, hand built, threaded bb, adjustable chainstay length, super burly. It climbs extremely well, especiwlly on technical trails. One other thing i would change is i would route the dropper cable in the downtube too, but now we're gettong pretty picky. I loke thwt it uses q dtandard headset, has a tall stack, and likes to party.

Its truly a fantastic bike, and it compeletely brings back threjoy and fun of why i started riding in the first place. I love this bike. The closest thing to a middle child is a cromag rootdown, and it has a press fit bb, is more expensive, weighs the same, and doesnt have sliding dropouts. 

If you dont have technical terrain, steep sections or lots of rocks/roots/steps where you ridr, you might be netter off on someting more mellow like a chameleon,honzo, timberjack, stache, or sergeant. This bike is for people who want to play and get rowdy, not chase strava times.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

View attachment 1249463


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

hardtail party said:


> If you dont have technical terrain, steep sections or lots of rocks/roots/steps where you ridr, you might be netter off on someting more mellow like a chameleon,honzo, timberjack, stache, or sergeant. This bike is for people who want to play and get rowdy, not chase strava times.


Thanks for the review as well!

I am looking at building up a frame and the RSD and Chameleon are about the same price. Trying to figure out which will be more fun for me and the Georgia trails I ride.

yzedf : your bike looks great!!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Both are great bikes that ride quite differently.


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## Dirt Road (Feb 6, 2016)

35lb hardtail, lol in unsubbed. Yeah I won’t ger it!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

The middle child weighs the same as a cromag rootdown, and it has slidong dropouts. These burly aggressive bikes arent the lightest bikes around, but once you start pedalling them, you dont notice the weight till mile 10.


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

Dirt Road said:


> 35lb hardtail, lol in unsubbed. Yeah I won't ger it!


Take into consideration this is my own custom build which I am running cushcore, tires over 1000g and rims that are ~600g each. You could drop 4lb by not using cushcore, lighter weight tires, and less burly rims. An expensive light weight cassette would drop another pound as well. I run all these components because it's what it takes to not break parts on my bike the way I ride.

RSD lists the stock bike at just over 30lb with a dropper post


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Dirt Road said:


> 35lb hardtail, lol in unsubbed. Yeah I won't ger it!


Pfft! Build it like a Sherman Tank and you'll have that kind of weight. Is a +bike for the weight weenie roadie that has 18k tied up in an olympic class road bike? Heavens no. They don't have what it takes to do the type of ride a heavy build is required for. A light build is quite easy to do with a MIddleChild and even easier if I were to go with a limited production Ti M/C. Chris is a rather hard core rider that would give a weight weenie bike a fvcking double hernia.

Frankly, there is a major difference between a Toyota SR5 and an F350 Superduty on many fronts.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Finally a good ride day is approaching. Sunday is looking to be a good opportunity to hit some trails!


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## jtkyber (Jan 29, 2019)

drivera said:


> Thanks for the review as well!
> 
> I am looking at building up a frame and the RSD and Chameleon are about the same price. Trying to figure out which will be more fun for me and the Georgia trails I ride.
> 
> yzedf : your bike looks great!!


I live in Georgia as well. I mainly ride Blankets Creek. I demoed the Chameleon R+ version and it was awesome, but I wasn't too fond of that steep head angle. After seeing Steve's video on Hardtail Party, I decided to pull the trigger on the Middle Child, and I'm glad I did! It's a beast when it comes to descending and it seems like it climbs just as well as the Chameleon. Also, I see tons of Chameleons on the trails, so it's nice to have something different. Sixes Pit bike shop by Blankets Creek are RSD dealers so you might be able to try out the bike there.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Congrats, and welcome to the rsd family. I'm still loving mine.


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## jtkyber (Jan 29, 2019)

hardtail party said:


> Congrats, and welcome to the rsd family. I'm still loving mine.


Thanks! I've had it for about 2 months and it's been awesome! It pretty much handles anything I throw at it.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

so had the opportunity to have a look at an RSD MC locally, although it wasn't my size at all and didn't have chance to throw a leg over it. Frame looks great and I'm really considering picking one up after the re-stocks happen and 'building up' my first frame. Doubt I can handle everything myself, but maybe I can handle some of the swap and learn something along the way.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Sweet. I highly recommend doing as much as possible. It's a great way to learn.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

drivera said:


> so had the opportunity to have a look at an RSD MC locally, although it wasn't my size at all and didn't have chance to throw a leg over it. Frame looks great and I'm really considering picking one up after the re-stocks happen and 'building up' my first frame. Doubt I can handle everything myself, but maybe I can handle some of the swap and learn something along the way.


The build it yourself approach just makes it all the more special. When you have done the deed, you come to know your bike far better than letting someone else have that pleasure. The jones begins as you put the first part on and only grows in intensity as it gets closer to being a bike.

Congratz!


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## tantrum007 (May 4, 2017)

Anyone pulled the trigger on a Ti yet? Ive got an itchy finger for one. Would love to hear some reviews.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I have a ti one (and a cro-mo one). I love both, but the ti one is really something special. It's my favorite hardtail I've ever ridden. It's noticeably lighter than my steel mc, and it's more supple. My steel middle child is stiffer than a lot of other steel bikes. The ti MC has the same burly feel, without the weight, and with a bit more give in the chainstays. It beats me up less.

I'll have a review video coming soon on my YouTube channel.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> I have a ti one (and a cro-mo one). I love both, but the ti one is really something special. It's my favorite hardtail I've ever ridden. It's noticeably lighter than my steel mc, and it's more supple. My steel middle child is stiffer than a lot of other steel bikes. The ti MC has the same burly feel, without the weight, and with a bit more give in the chainstays. It beats me up less.
> 
> I'll have a review video coming soon on my YouTube channel.


As Ti frames are well known, a far less harsh ride quality.

My steel frame is treating me quite well as I recuperate from a partially torn tendon. Damn, I hate waiting for injuries to heal.

On the Ti frame idea, I still consider dropping the coin and going for one. The attention to detail seems to be spot on.
Leave it to Alex...

Four RSD's infest my home! Yus, it's an infestation!!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I've ridden aluminum frames with more compliance than a steel frame, and steel frames with more compliance than an aluminum frame. A lot depends on welds, thickness and size of tubing, design, etc. RSD knocked it out of the park with the Ti MC. If you like the steel MC, and you have the budget for a ti one, don't hesitate. It does everything better. I also love my raw finish - I never have to worry about scratches or chipping my paint.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Hardtail, there's many things that make a Ti enticing from the "It's Ti" factor to the compliance of said and the fact that tire clearance is dynamite, the list goes long. 
Alex has done very well with the RSD lineup. Frankly, the only upgrade would be a custom frame.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

BansheeRune said:


> Hardtail, there's many things that make a Ti enticing from the "It's Ti" factor to the compliance of said and the fact that tire clearance is dynamite, the list goes long.
> Alex has done very well with the RSD lineup. Frankly, the only upgrade would be a custom frame.


Is the tire clearance better on the TI MC vs the steel MC?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Nitrous, that one is a Hardtail question as he's harboring both steel and Ti.

With my steel frame, I have the rear wheel slammed with a 3.0. Fair clearance.
Could be improved with an additional link in the chain tho'.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Looking into sizing of the Middlechild. I am leaning towards a Medium. I am 5'7.5" tall with a floor to crotch inseam of 29". Seems like the numbers add up. I am asking because my current bike is a Small Surly Instigator and I purchased it before the emergence of short stems became mainstream. With a 22.75" effective top tube, 75mm stem and a 25mm off-set dropper post (I ran bike as a SS ALOT) the bike fits perfectly. I also always bought the smallest frame I could get away with. Considering the modern geometry of a 24" effective top tube and a ~27" standover height the medium just makes more sense. I would forgo the off-set dropper and imagine I would probably land in the range of a ~40mm stem. Anyone care to weigh-in? Is my logic flawed or sound?

Additionally, help me with the guilt of ordering directly as I hate to cut-out my shop. I am sure I could have them order it but I assume that it would ultimately cost me more money than I need to spend and that seems silly. I completely overhaul my own bikes every season and feel very confident I would be able to assemble this bike on my own. In fact I think I read in this thread the satisfaction people get from building their own rides- I just dusted off and rebuilt my old Intense Tracer (old 4 bar version) for my son. He went NUTS!

Thanks all for any and all perspectives!


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

At your height I think you could make yourself comfortable on either a small or medium. Your choice will come down to how you prefer your bikes to fit and what kind of riding you will do. Your logic makes perfect sense.

Myself, for example, am riding a medium Middlechild. I am at the tall end of the medium frames sizing at 5'11". I prefer a smaller bike since I don't love bikes with 460mm reach or more and I wanted the bike to be more well rounded when I ride on the tighter XC style trails close to home. It still rides well on technical downhill because the bike is long and slack by design. I have an inseam of 32" and have the 170mm OneUp post on it with enough room to fit the new 180mm post if I ever switch. Maybe even even 190 or 200mm with their 210mm with a shim. You will likely be able to fit a 150mm post with your inseam. 

Even though you are not going through a shop, you are still supporting a small, passionate brand in the cycling industry (much like your local shop is). They are also Canadian, that is, if you like us Canadians. You are not buying off of chain reaction or from a large direct to consumer brand.

Building your own frame up is fun. I feel much more connected to my bike having a component set I am comfortable with from year to year.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I agree with chris, you could go with a small or med. Which bike are you coming off of? What year? What size? What size stem?

I'm 5'6" with a 28" inseam. I'm on a small with a 50mm stem and it feels good. The medium is a LOT longer (37mm). I wouldn't mind 5-10mm extra reach on my small, but 37mm would be way too much for me. I typically prefer smaller hardtails than full suspension bikes anyway. Perhaps its the slightly slacker seat tube and the slack head angle of the MC that makes the small fit me so well.

My enduro full suspension bike has a reach of 450mm and my small RSD MC has a 411mm reach. Same bars, same stem. Surprisingly, it feels fine riding them back to back. The shorter reach on the hardtail is more fun for trials moves and sane speeds, and the long reach is more fun for high speed straight line chunk. Since hardtails aren't the world's best bikes for straightline chunk anyway, I opted for something more playful and small. I can feel that my enduro bike is longer, but not by a ton. The hardtail is slacker, which gives it a longer wheelbase, so it's still got stability without a crazy long reach.

It's honrable that you want to support your local shop, I get that. If your shop doesn't carry a bike with this same geo (doubtful), then it's not worth riding the wrong bike simply to support your shop. Look at RSD as a small company, just like you look at your small shop. He's passionate about riding, and making killer bikes. It's easier to support him than someone like Specialized or Trek, who won't feel your contribution. The best way to support companies willing to think outside the box like Alex is to purchase from them. Besides, you're going to need chain lube, pedals, cables, crimpers, and you may even use your shop to press in the headset bearings. They make more off maintenance than selling a new bike anyway.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Osco said:


> Full suspension bikes are under 30 pounds these days.
> No Hard Tail, not even a plus bike should be over 30
> 
> Just over 30 pounds with a dropper,
> ...


I am not strong so i just personalize the transmission, smaller ring or bigger cassette and i enjoy climbing. I agree all HT over 29 are questionable.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

If it's cheap, people complain about the weight. If it's light, people complain about the price.

Weights are on par with cro-mag and other hardcore hardtails. Nobody's buying a cro-mag as an xc race bike. I'll take proper geo over low weight any day. I'll take proper geo AND light weight always, which is why I ride a Ti MC.

Don't get me wrong, weight absolutely matters, especially for smaller riders. But it's not the most important measurement of a bike. However, weight is the _easiest _ way to quantify a bike. It's objective, it reduces a bike into a single number, and it's easy to compare bikes based off that one number. But it only tells part of the story. It's like evaluating who to date based off their dress size.

My wife has an Ibis DV9 carbon frame that is half the weight of my RSD MC Steel frame. I wouldn't dream of taking that bike where I take my middle child, but for mellow, long-distance, smooth rides on easier trails, it's the better choice. The ibis is light, and fun because it accelerates so quickly. But the RSD is more fun in every other category, and I smile more riding it, despite pushing another 1-2 lbs on that bike.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Chris

Thanks for the message! I chose my Instigator size exactly for the reasons you described picking the Middlechild. It is giving me the perfect time to pause and really, really think what would fit my riding style. I do love my Surly for the tight way it rides and I think I would be a bit bummed if I lost that tight responsiveness. Also thanks for the perspective on the shop- I didn't really think about it the way you posted it and I appreciate your perspective on that as well.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

hardtail party said:


> I agree with chris, you could go with a small or med. Which bike are you coming off of? What year? What size? What size stem?
> 
> I feel like I am rubbing elbows with Celebrity! Awesome U-Tube channel been a subscriber for a few months now. I currently ride a Surly Instigator 2.0 circa 2014/15. Great bike. I love it. Running a small 22.75" EFF Top Tube, 75mm stem and a 25mm off-set dropper. Set-up this way it fits me like a glove. Biggest reason to upgrade kinda boils down to upgrading suspension (currently running an OEM 140mm RS Secktor)- forks are too expensive NOT to go BOOST and my current wheel set cannot be converted from 100mm to 115mm. I could rebuild a set of CK wheels to 27.5 rims because there is a conversion kit MRP makes but after all that I could see dropping $1,500. Rather I am wondering by spending ~$2,700 with the complete package of a Middlechild: Steel frame with sliders, PIKE, XT and the ability to run a 2.6 sized tire (more appropriate for the 80% of trails I ride on a regular basis) will I be better off in the long-run? Did that make ANY sense?


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

your 25mm offset post is offset toward the rear, correct?


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

LOL. I'm the farthest thing from a celebrity. Thanks for watching the channel though, it means a lot. 

You are correct that a new bike is a much better value than buying a bunch of components one by one to upgrade. In my mind, boost spacing doesn't provide a huge performance advantage, especially if you're using 2.3-2.5" tires. Once you go to the bigger 2.8-3.0 it can help make room for the bigger tires. If all you're looking for is a better fork, I'd spend $400 for a good used fork, get an adapter for your front wheel, and don't look back. If you're hoping to build up a killer wheelset to move to another bike one day, it makes sense to go boost for compatibility's sake, and at that point, it makes sense to buy a complete bike.


The MC is going to ride quite different from the instigator 2.0 with a 3* slacker hta, and a 25mm shorter stem. It's going to favor more aggressive riding and steeper terrain. The chainstays should feel about the same, so that's good.

If you're riding mostly flat stuff without much chunk (rocks smaller than watermelons), I'd pick up a nice used fork. I like a pike best myself, but a 36, 34, dvo diamond, helm, any of those should be great for what you need. And you can just get some boost adapters to make your front wheel fit.

If you're looking for a hardtail that rides quite different from your instagator and can tackle some seriously steep and chunky terrain (lots of watermelon sized rocks) and jumps, the MC complete build is a great setup. It's not going to win any XC races, but it's going to be a sturdy, reliable bike.

Hope that helps.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

hardtail party said:


> LOL. I'm the farthest thing from a celebrity. Thanks for watching the channel though, it means a lot.
> 
> If you're riding mostly flat stuff without much chunk (rocks smaller than watermelons), I'd pick up a nice used fork. I like a pike best myself, but a 36, 34, dvo diamond, helm, any of those should be great for what you need. And you can just get some boost adapters to make your front wheel fit.
> 
> ...


Totally helps. I do like the Instigator for what I need- The idea of a used fork really is not something I had considered and probably should take the pause and do so. I will do some more research and circle back.

You gotta head up to the NE!  There is a party in Kingdom Vermont! Hardtails rule!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NJ Gator,

There are a few things of note with RSD. One is the fact that concerns and issues are addressed 7 days a week. unlike any other company out there.

On the build it yourself front, it's the only way to fly! Other peeps can simply obey the cardinal rule, MITTS OFF!!
The equipment list is very respectable.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

So earlier on I was considering buying RSD frame and swapping parts over from my bike. I decided to sell the bike whole and now am shopping for a complete.

RSD is at the top of the list but is also a budget stretch as I want a dropper. I've also seen the Jenson build Chromag Wideangle, which seems to be comparable. Any thoughts from anyone that's compared both or maybe even ridden both?

https://www.jensonusa.com/Chromag-Wideangle-GX-Jenson-USA-Exclusive-Build


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

The 2020 rootdown and the MC are very similar geo wise. I've ridden a rootdown and MC back to back. The rootdown is slightly more compliant. The RSD has sliding dropouts, so more options to run it single speed or adjust your rear center (chainstay length). , or 415 --430mm chainstay. Both are great bikes.

Depending on the year of the rootdown, it may have the same head angle as the MC or not. I believe the prior years had a 66 and 65* hta. The current bike has a 64* ht like the middle child.

FYI, the link you have there is to the wideangle, not the rootdown. I haven't ridden a wideangle yet, but I'd like to try one.

I also check the max tire width for a rootdown. A lot of "plus" bikes these days can only take a 2.6" wide tire. I definitely prefer the ability to ride 2.8-3.0, which the MC can do (caveat: some 3.0s may not fit).


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

Sorry - mistyped, the link is correct for the Wide-angle. The build on that one is fairly comparable to the RSD MC, although I think the MC dropper is better. 

I should also say my intended use is just just fun trail riding, no bikepacking, or super long all-day rides. 2.8's are the max tire I'll need. In fact I'd probably run 2.6rear and 2.8 front, to try to get it to roll a bit quicker. My previous bike Airborne Griffin had 3.25 front and 3.0 rear tires, and while it was still great fun I felt like it was a bit overkill for me. Georgia trails are more about roots and small rocks, so trying to get some rolling speed with a good dose of traction is enough. I'm not racing or anything, but just don't want to carry extra weight or rolling resistance if not needed. Kinda like to slide the rear a bit sometimes as well - just for fun 

Also excited to try a steel framed mtb to see the difference between the previous Aluminum Airbornes I had.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

drivera said:


> Sorry - mistyped, the link is correct for the Wide-angle. The build on that one is fairly comparable to the RSD MC, although I think the MC dropper is better.
> 
> I should also say my intended use is just just fun trail riding, no bikepacking, or super long all-day rides. 2.8's are the max tire I'll need. In fact I'd probably run 2.6rear and 2.8 front, to try to get it to roll a bit quicker. My previous bike Airborne Griffin had 3.25 front and 3.0 rear tires, and while it was still great fun I felt like it was a bit overkill for me. Georgia trails are more about roots and small rocks, so trying to get some rolling speed with a good dose of traction is enough. I'm not racing or anything, but just don't want to carry extra weight or rolling resistance if not needed. Kinda like to slide the rear a bit sometimes as well - just for fun
> 
> Also excited to try a steel framed mtb to see the difference between the previous Aluminum Airbornes I had.


Frankly, there's a great point of interest with sliding dropouts. I can run my M/C with Nobby Nic 3.0's and slammed. 
In 29, the M/C is limited to 2.6, based on RSD's website.

On another note, can you get a response from company X on a Saturday?

My setup is ether a pair of Nobby or a pair of Rocket Ron 3.0's. They roll well enough that I am more often than not catching up with others on minus bikes that cannot believe a +bike is catching em. All the while, I still hear how + is slow, blah blah blah! I am on a one speed automatic, for heavens sake...

For the ultimate in "Canadian Army Knife" style bikes there is the Sergeant. 2.whatevuh, 4.0, 29 x 3.0.
For the fun factory, the MiddleChild.








Clad in Nobby Nic 3.0's.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Going from a 69* hta to a 64* hta is going to feel quite different.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

The wide angle listed is a non boost pike and comes with 2.3 tires. Very capable if that is what you are looking for but based on your post I think you want a boost-spaced fork.



drivera said:


> Sorry - mistyped, the link is correct for the Wide-angle. The build on that one is fairly comparable to the RSD MC, although I think the MC dropper is better.
> 
> I should also say my intended use is just just fun trail riding, no bikepacking, or super long all-day rides. 2.8's are the max tire I'll need. In fact I'd probably run 2.6rear and 2.8 front, to try to get it to roll a bit quicker. My previous bike Airborne Griffin had 3.25 front and 3.0 rear tires, and while it was still great fun I felt like it was a bit overkill for me. Georgia trails are more about roots and small rocks, so trying to get some rolling speed with a good dose of traction is enough. I'm not racing or anything, but just don't want to carry extra weight or rolling resistance if not needed. Kinda like to slide the rear a bit sometimes as well - just for fun
> 
> Also excited to try a steel framed mtb to see the difference between the previous Aluminum Airbornes I had.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

NJ Gator said:


> The wide angle listed is a non boost pike and comes with 2.3 tires. Very capable if that is what you are looking for but based on your post I think you want a boost-spaced fork.


Not sure how I missed that! This definitely puts the RSD even more ahead.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Glad I could help! Seemed like an odd combination 148mm rear hub paired with a 100MM front...


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## hgravez (Jul 15, 2008)

Hoping to get some wisdom from the MC group here. I just received and assembled my MC, medium turquoise. I also ride an Ibis Ripley LS. Traded up the Specialized Fuse expert for the MC. I went for the MC bc I have a long history of riding SS steel bikes, but haven't had one in several years bc I couldn't find one with advanced geometry. I've really liked my Fuse as a second bike. Just wanted something more aggressive, with better components and versatility (SS capabilities) and love the feel of steel. 

After one 20mi ride as an 11spd, a couple issues I'm hoping others could help me consider. One is that the ride seems harsh. I thought the Fuse was a bit harsh and a steel frame would be more compliant, but this seems easily as stiff or stiffer than the Fuse. Any chance this will "break in" a bit with more use? I did not feel much difference with lowered tire pressures.

The other thing is how slow I felt on the bike. I'm not sure what factors are contributing to this. I know it's heavier than the Fuse, but not by much. I don't think the wheelset is much heavier, but it could be. The tires should be the same weight. The minion on the front is more aggressive than the purgatory on the fuse, but I have the same rear tire installed (Rekon). It was much harder to gain and keep momentum and steering felt a bit sluggish. 


I really love the fit of the bike and the geometry seems excellent for both climbing and descending. Just not sure what to do about the above. Lighter wheelset? Less aggressive tires? set up as 29er? Swap frame for chameleon?

Thanks in advance!


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

hgravez said:


> Hoping to get some wisdom from the MC group here. I just received and assembled my MC, medium turquoise. I also ride an Ibis Ripley LS. Traded up the Specialized Fuse expert for the MC. I went for the MC bc I have a long history of riding SS steel bikes, but haven't had one in several years bc I couldn't find one with advanced geometry. I've really liked my Fuse as a second bike. Just wanted something more aggressive, with better components and versatility (SS capabilities) and love the feel of steel.
> 
> After one 20mi ride as an 11spd, a couple issues I'm hoping others could help me consider. One is that the ride seems harsh. I thought the Fuse was a bit harsh and a steel frame would be more compliant, but this seems easily as stiff or stiffer than the Fuse. Any chance this will "break in" a bit with more use? I did not feel much difference with lowered tire pressures.
> 
> ...


Mine is set up as a 29er and singlespeed. You're right, it's a bit harsher than expected. On the other hand, it's not a bike that you'll flex the tire into the chain stays.

As a 29er it's a fast bike, both up and down. On my local loop I've set a few PR's on technical climbs, beating my old carbon xc hardtail. I do avoid a couple of the optional drops with harsh landings...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hgravez said:


> Hoping to get some wisdom from the MC group here. I just received and assembled my MC, medium turquoise. I also ride an Ibis Ripley LS. Traded up the Specialized Fuse expert for the MC. I went for the MC bc I have a long history of riding SS steel bikes, but haven't had one in several years bc I couldn't find one with advanced geometry. I've really liked my Fuse as a second bike. Just wanted something more aggressive, with better components and versatility (SS capabilities) and love the feel of steel.
> 
> After one 20mi ride as an 11spd, a couple issues I'm hoping others could help me consider. One is that the ride seems harsh. I thought the Fuse was a bit harsh and a steel frame would be more compliant, but this seems easily as stiff or stiffer than the Fuse. Any chance this will "break in" a bit with more use? I did not feel much difference with lowered tire pressures.
> 
> ...


Frankly, I have never had my M/C set up with gears. It's been a SS since day one. Gear swaps have happened as time passed and I became stronger. Tire choice in plus is a challenge as it can make or break the feel and performance.
One thing I did notice was the bike performed better with each ride and I learned where the performance lives for trail ripping. Take the time to get to know the bike. 
As for lighter components, yeah, there are plenty to choose from however, in due time. Perhaps, tires for something with less rolling resistance. Maxxis is not known for light tires.

Gearing? Does it fall in where you are comfortable with it? Too tall, and sluggish, too short and run out of gear early.

Fork pressure? That too can lead to a harsh ride.

I change from Nobby Nic's to Rocket Ron's depending on the trail choice.

On the ride quality... I find it to be rather nice for the most part. Tire pressure 10-12 front, 12-14 rear for a bean pole at 150 #'s.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I tried a used bike for sale 10 days ago. Tires size and rims were real close to mine.
It was just terribly slow with 2 purgatory.
You might be happier with 2 Rekons.
Maybe a 2.8 front with rear 2.6?
I am on 27.5 40 mm rims and love all that grip.
Without a car i pedal to the trails and back so my combo for good rolling and grip is 3.0 Chronicle/2.8 Rekon
13 PSI for a light rider.


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## hgravez (Jul 15, 2008)

BansheeRune said:


> Frankly, I have never had my M/C set up with gears. It's been a SS since day one. Gear swaps have happened as time passed and I became stronger. Tire choice in plus is a challenge as it can make or break the feel and performance.
> One thing I did notice was the bike performed better with each ride and I learned where the performance lives for trail ripping. Take the time to get to know the bike.
> As for lighter components, yeah, there are plenty to choose from however, in due time. Perhaps, tires for something with less rolling resistance. Maxxis is not known for light tires.
> 
> ...


Great. Thanks for the advice. To clarify, are you running 27.5+ SS or 29er SS? What tire widths?

Currently, with the 11spd, I'm totally happy with the gearing. I did not use the 46t cog that much and, when I did, it was helpful/needed. Most of what I noticed was the difficulty gaining momentum even going downhill, and the difficulty keeping it when transitioning to flat or mild uphill. Also slow steering.

I guess I never thought the Rekon was great as a rear tire on the Fuse. The Specialized Ground Control seemed better rolling before I tore it open. I've got a WTB Ranger 2.8 I could put on the back (although that is not any lighter), or I could get a Maxxis Ikon as those are a bit lighter. I really like Ibis wheels and could get a set of 738s which would drop ~270g from rotating weight. I definitely plan to get to know the bike a bit before doing anything drastic. It did take me some time with the Fuse.

I currently live in Montana and the trails here are pretty technical with steep ups and long ripping downs. I'm moving to Boise pretty soon and definitely want a hardtail for the immediate foothills since that terrain has almost no technical features and is mostly sandy over hardpack with sustained climbing.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I'd give it a few more rides to get used to it. The frame won't "break in", but your riding will adapt and you'll most likely start clicking with it. Moving from a dated geo to today's modern geo takes some time to get used to.

I agree, this is a stiff bike for steel, especially the rear triangle. I wish it were a little more compliant and soft. The Ti version is definitely more compliant, and it has the ride quality I was expecting for the MC cro-mo. That being said, The MC Cro-mo still mutes a lot of the terrain. You don't get the zingy feel that an aluminum frame often gets. You'll notice less vibration going to your hands (espeically vs the fuse), but the rear triangle is definitely stiff. I can dial that out with tire pressure though. What tire pressures are you running?

I too prefer the ground control over a rekon. The rekon rolls fast, but traction has been awful for me, especially climbing traction on rocky and ledgy terrain. The sidwewalls are too flexy for my preferences too, even with cushcore. But I have buddies who swear by the rekon. If I lived in norcal, I'd run a rekon rear.

My favorite rear tire for where I ride is a DHR2, but it's pretty draggy and slow for the flat stuff. Where I live we have a lot of steep terrain, so it makes a lot of sense. If I rode buff, flat XC trails, I'd switch to a 29er setup. If you feel the ride is too harsh, I wouldn't recommend 29ers, they're just going to make it feel more harsh.

I think it all depends on your trails. If your trails are mostly flat, or there aren't many places to get it up above 15/20mph, it's going to be tough to take full advantage of the geometry of the MC and the burly parts. The geo still works great on flats, but the weight of the burly components is going to make it feel sluggish. For that stuff a lighter, twitchier XC/Trail hardtail is going to zip along a bit better.

What's your riding terrain like? My recommendations for tires will vary depending on where you ride and what you're into. What part of montana? Whitefish has some killer spots to put the MC through its paces.

You'll notice the RSD doesn't rattle like a fuse. A fuse sounds like a bucket of bolts rolling down a hill. The RSD is nice and quiet.

For Boise, take that bike up to Bogus Basin and have a blast. I would ride this bike on any trail in Boise. It'll be a blast at the Eagle Bike park and BMX park too. It really comes alive on aggressive, fast terrain. Don't think of it as a bike only for smooth, flat stuff. This bike was meant to rip!

The "sluggish" steering you're feeling is most likely the slacker head angle. It'll take a bit to get used to this. This is one of those "modern" geo changes you mentioned. However, just because it's the trend today doesn't mean it's for everyone. I recommend learning to steer by counter-steering and leaning the bike, rather than turning at the bars, and then you may fall in love with the slack head angle. These modern bikes require a modern riding style (i.e. steering with bike/body separation and leaning the bike). When you learn to steer like this, the bike really comes alive.

If you don't need an aggressive bike, and you're looking for something for slower paces or more XC style, you may prefer a chameleon or a timberjack (almost identical to the chameleon for far less money). The chameleon frame is lighter and more forgiving, but it's got a fairly steep head angle, and it's stupid expensive. I much prefer my middle child, despite it being heavier. For my riding style, I haven't found a hardtail I like more.

Give it some time, and take it on the rowdiest trails you've got. I'm betting you'll fall more and more in love with it every ride.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

To learn more about effective cornering, check out these videos.

Nate Hills. Pay attention to the angle of his stem in turns. Notice how he leans the bike, but doesn't really turn the bars side to side. His stem is almost always straight ahead on turns. This is because he's leaning and engaging the cornering nobs to corner. It's a lot like a motorcycle, how you counter-steer. you actually steer right to go left. it lets the bike flop over and fall into the turn.






Same with Jeff Kendall Weed.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

What you can't see in those video above is how important footwork is. For instruction on how to do this, Simon Lawton is your guy. Best explanation I've seen anywhere. If you're ever in Seattle, I HIGHLY recommend a clinic from him. Here are a few videos to illustrate.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

A few more.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hgravez said:


> Great. Thanks for the advice. To clarify, are you running 27.5+ SS or 29er SS? What tire widths?
> 
> Currently, with the 11spd, I'm totally happy with the gearing. I did not use the 46t cog that much and, when I did, it was helpful/needed. Most of what I noticed was the difficulty gaining momentum even going downhill, and the difficulty keeping it when transitioning to flat or mild uphill. Also slow steering.
> 
> ...


I am running a 27.5 x 3.0 and lovin it. One thing that SS started out as short gears to regain lost strength. Once that process moved forward, I changed the gearing a bit taller to have something to pull against and bring the cadence down some. I still enjoy spinning it up rather high in cadence as it feels good. 
Some of my backcountry rides are loose, loamy ground that requires low tires to be efficient however, the trails do need more pressure. 
These frames are indeed stiff but getting to know the ride and what to do takes some miles and a little adjustment to riding style. Cornering on plus is different from 2.whatever tire bikes and takes some time to learn the handling characteristics. Slow steering indicates technique needs tweaking. Don't fret, it does take time and patience.
Seeming slow on momentum can be overcome with discovering where your powerband lives. Again, it takes time to find that aspect and adjust to it. With a Sergeant V1 and Wildcat and gears, it took time to sort SS.

Developing a "light" riding style is a great thing with the MiddleChild. Not only does it make lower tire pressure possible, it takes out most, if not all of the harshness.

Also note what Hardtail pointed out! I take my M/C on some high speed flow trails frequently. It is very much at home there as well as parks, etc.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

I was kinda hoping the CrMO would deliver that expected ride quality that the Ti version brings. Obviously would love the Ti but it's way above budget. The complete MC is already stretching it for me. Still haven't pulled the trigger as I'm still torn on what to go with.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

It's a challenging place to be. Making a big ticket purchase is a bit stressful when the budget is stretched as it is.
The steel is rather stiff, yes but the Ti price does take it out of budget really. 

I'm thinking you will bond with the M/C more with more time spent riding, playing and getting used to the way it works and performs. Playful bike, indeed! 
Weight is not too shabby for what I cobbled together. Sure, could lose a little weight but at what cost?


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## hgravez (Jul 15, 2008)

On my second ride, things were definitely better. Probably adjusting to the bike, and had the tire pressure better dialed (150lbs all geared up for ~12psi F, ~13psi R). Definitely felt more of the steel feel. The only thing that I changed was a slightly lighter saddle since the stock saddle was uncomfortable for me (too wide). I do think I'll swap for lighter wheels and tires with lower rolling resistance. Ibis 738s are 1880g, compared to 2150g for the Duroc 50mm. Not too expensive.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hgravez said:


> On my second ride, things were definitely better. Probably adjusting to the bike, and had the tire pressure better dialed (150lbs all geared up for ~12psi F, ~13psi R). Definitely felt more of the steel feel. The only thing that I changed was a slightly lighter saddle since the stock saddle was uncomfortable for me (too wide). I do think I'll swap for lighter wheels and tires with lower rolling resistance. Ibis 738s are 1880g, compared to 2150g for the Duroc 50mm. Not too expensive.


I too am considering the next pair of wheels. Hubs will be the difficult part since Onyx has my undivided attention. Making this bike perform more precisely with near zero lash engagement is key to a great experience. 
I did test the MC with the wheels offa da Wildcat with their lovely Onyx hubs and it was awesome. Ugh, the cost of em is sky high tho' and nothing else out there comes close.

On the wheels... Tire choice can demolish the weight saving in an instant. Some plus tires out weigh my 4.8's on the fatty and are just no.

As for seats, one thing I have no interest in, is a seat so hard that it may as well be made of microlam or cast iron, for that matter.

The plus experience! Tire pressure variance of one psi is quite noticeable and can change the ride quality for good or not so good. It does require getting a feel for. Also requires a tweak for terrain conditions as well as temperature, being high volume, low pressure as opposed to 2.nothanks tires of times gone by.

Another aspect of plus that many reviewers refuse to acknowledge is the difference in body English required of plus vs. narrow tire bikes. They leave that out of reviews and it is painfully obvious that they need to learn that part of plus to be objective.

Have you tweaked the fork yet? That is an interesting line of experiments that are worthy.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I am just having fun on my 27.5+ these last 4 months. 
With 13 PSI, 40 mm, proper fork pressure and rebound
and a padded saddle i just found found a sweet ride.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

33red said:


> I am just having fun on my 27.5+ these last 4 months.
> With 13 PSI, 40 mm, proper fork pressure and rebound
> and a padded saddle i just found found a sweet ride.


Hmmm, sounds very familiar, ya bean pole!

Remember, it takes one to know one...


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

*Middle Child 29'er build*

Built this one for my 12yo son. He was thrashing his aluminum hardtail. XTR shifter with XT med cage rear meshed with a Sunrace 11-50 cassette. I9 101 hubs laced up to Stan's mk3 hoops, 29mm ID I believe. Holding up very well. Now I just wait for him to outgrow it so it can be mine.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Stihlgoin said:


> Built this one for my 12yo son. He was thrashing his aluminum hardtail. XTR shifter with XT med cage rear meshed with a Sunrace 11-50 cassette. I9 101 hubs laced up to Stan's mk3 hoops, 29mm ID I believe. Holding up very well. Now I just wait for him to outgrow it so it can be mine.
> 
> View attachment 1275031
> View attachment 1275033
> View attachment 1275039


That's awesome!! Great job putting the kid on a sweet ride!


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

Thanks. Big props to Steve from Hardtail Party. His videos were very helpful in the selection process. Once my son gets to be my height we will look into a dropper post. He wheelied the bike around corners in between trees at the end of our ride yesterday. So, to say he is enjoying it would be an understatement.
I may very well look into a set of plus tires and wheels for 3&1/2 season riding capabilities when I take ownership of it in a couple years. This is based on the assumption that the kid will grow up to be taller than me.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

Oh yeah. Alex was a total gentleman to deal with as well. We used some of our own components and he was more than willing to update invoices for me. It’s a great bike.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Stihlgoin said:


> Thanks. Big props to Steve from Hardtail Party. His videos were very helpful in the selection process. Once my son gets to be my height we will look into a dropper post. He wheelied the bike around corners in between trees at the end of our ride yesterday. So, to say he is enjoying it would be an understatement.
> I may very well look into a set of plus tires and wheels for 3&1/2 season riding capabilities when I take ownership of it in a couple years. This is based on the assumption that the kid will grow up to be taller than me.


Somehow, "good luck with that" comes to mind! I can hear "Get your own, Dad" being shouted as he catches you in the act of takin it out for a spin!!

3 1/2 seasons?? Pfft! We compact a singletrack nearby for our +'ers to ride in the dead of winter. Lower the tire pressure in a pair of deep, aggressive treads and hit it... The Wildcat, Sarge and now the MiddleChild are on tap for gentlman's races.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

I still prefer to get out on x-country skis in the winter IF we have enough snow. If our northeast winters continue with anemic snowfall totals, four season riding it will be. We rode last winter, and even the 2.4” DerBarons did quite well in the snow. It just felt odd not skiing thru snowy woods. As for the bike txfer, the kid should hit 6’ eventually, so his 5’8” dad should be able to wrestle it away. Perhaps if he saves up enough money for a Wildcat v2 at that point....


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

I must say, the Wildcat is a two wheeled Fleetwood Brougham.
Seems the Stihlgoin family needs to make another order! :devil:

Alex has said to go geared many times now however, I am enjoying the MiddleChild as a singlespeed to the extent that I just cannot do it. Definitely forces planning ahead on the mountainous trails. 
Perhaps a Ti woulda been the way to go but I love the "tennis ball yellow" bike as is! 

Is it a BMX, XC, park bike or a singletrack monster? All of the previous apply.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Stihlgoin said:


> Built this one for my 12yo son. He was thrashing his aluminum hardtail. XTR shifter with XT med cage rear meshed with a Sunrace 11-50 cassette. I9 101 hubs laced up to Stan's mk3 hoops, 29mm ID I believe. Holding up very well. Now I just wait for him to outgrow it so it can be mine.
> 
> View attachment 1275031
> View attachment 1275033
> View attachment 1275039


Beautiful bike, and very sensible build! Those sunrace cassettes are awesome.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm selling my size small MC Ti frame (raw). More info on my instagram. Shoot me a PM or instagram message if you're in the market for an amazing frame with only 15 rides on it.

Why am I selling it? I picked up a size med, and I'll be riding the med this season.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

hardtail party said:


> Beautiful bike, and very sensible build! Those sunrace cassettes are awesome.


Thanks. We took parts we had upgraded his Cannondale Trail 3 with, including the tires, and threw them on this bike. The 50 tooth was new, I figured he might like the help getting up our hills. Our property is all uphill when you leave our house. We also went with a Pike from Alex based on your video comments about it sitting up in its travel more. A have an MRP Ribbon air on my bike, and while plush, it does sit a little lower. I also do not test the laws of gravity nearly as much as my son. If you decide the medium ti frame isn't working out, I will gladly trade you our medium CroMo.


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## 9GUY9 (Jul 14, 2007)

I recently broke my second carbon FS frame in as many years. Salsa was great in honoring the warranty on the frame, and gave me a nice credit towards a new bike. Since I had my old bike complete with the exception of a non broken frame I decided to take a new route and look for something different. Thanks to this thread and hardtail party I am now happy owner of my own MiddleChild. I just spent a awesome 4 day weekend riding the bike. It is a super fun ride.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

9GUY9 said:


> I recently broke my second carbon FS frame in as many years. Salsa was great in honoring the warranty on the frame, and gave me a nice credit towards a new bike. Since I had my old bike complete with the exception of a non broken frame I decided to take a new route and look for something different. Thanks to this thread and hardtail party I am now happy owner of my own MiddleChild. I just spent a awesome 4 day weekend riding the bike. It is a super fun ride.
> 
> View attachment 1276477
> 
> View attachment 1276479


Awesome! Beautiful bike.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Lovely build, 9guy9!


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Sharp build!! Curious what length the fork is set at?


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

9GUY9 said:


> I recently broke my second carbon FS frame in as many years. Salsa was great in honoring the warranty on the frame, and gave me a nice credit towards a new bike. Since I had my old bike complete with the exception of a non broken frame I decided to take a new route and look for something different. Thanks to this thread and hardtail party I am now happy owner of my own MiddleChild. I just spent a awesome 4 day weekend riding the bike. It is a super fun ride.
> 
> Maximizing fun AND durability were the exact reasons we chose this bike, too. Nice colors on the build.


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## 9GUY9 (Jul 14, 2007)

nitrousjunky said:


> Sharp build!! Curious what length the fork is set at?


It's set at 130mm right now. I intended to buy a longer air spring, but I was really happy how it handled and rode set at 130. I will probably leave it alone for a bit.

Honestly, after several days of riding the bike there is nothing i want to change.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

25% off complete Middle Child's right now. Very happy I waited and that I sold my old bike. Just placed my order for the complete with dropper in none other than tennis ball yellow.

Also want to thank Steve at HTParty for answering so many questions. And Alex as well, I felt very confident in the order process with their help.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

My son will be riding his RSD Middlechild at the CycleCNY Shindagin Shindig this Saturday near Ithaca, NY. Hopefully it will be some good exposure for Alex and the brand. We’re just going to have fun riding and eating awesome tacos all day. (Menu on CycleCNY’s Facebook) The bike has held up marvelously so far. Anyone local other than us?


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

So I just got my RSD MC in the beautiful neon yellow, this frame is simply gorgeous... this will be my first time 'building up' a frame. At least a few things are already taken care of. Just inexperienced with the fork install, derailleur, chain, and dropper post. I'm sure there'll be other things I'm not quite sure of. Hoping I get to learn a bit and if I can't handle something, I'll head to the shop. I'm not rushing this process, I want to learn and do it right. Thankfully we live in the age of youtube, so I'll be searching MTB build videos and reading as much as I can. If anybody has any they'd like to share... much appreciated


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Stihlgoin said:


> My son will be riding his RSD Middlechild at the CycleCNY Shindagin Shindig this Saturday near Ithaca, NY. Hopefully it will be some good exposure for Alex and the brand. We're just going to have fun riding and eating awesome tacos all day. (Menu on CycleCNY's Facebook) The bike has held up marvelously so far. Anyone local other than us?


Should be a great opportunity to showcase such a nice bike. Annndddd, TACOS! Mmmm...



drivera said:


> So I just got my RSD MC in the beautiful neon yellow, this frame is simply gorgeous... this will be my first time 'building up' a frame. At least a few things are already taken care of. Just inexperienced with the fork install, derailleur, chain, and dropper post. I'm sure there'll be other things I'm not quite sure of. Hoping I get to learn a bit and if I can't handle something, I'll head to the shop. I'm not rushing this process, I want to learn and do it right. Thankfully we live in the age of youtube, so I'll be searching MTB build videos and reading as much as I can. If anybody has any they'd like to share... much appreciated


Good opportunity to learn and it will make it yours...
That Tennis Ball Yellow is an awesome color!

Gratz!


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

drivera said:


> So I just got my RSD MC in the beautiful neon yellow, this frame is simply gorgeous... this will be my first time 'building up' a frame. At least a few things are already taken care of. Just inexperienced with the fork install, derailleur, chain, and dropper post. I'm sure there'll be other things I'm not quite sure of. Hoping I get to learn a bit and if I can't handle something, I'll head to the shop. I'm not rushing this process, I want to learn and do it right. Thankfully we live in the age of youtube, so I'll be searching MTB build videos and reading as much as I can. If anybody has any they'd like to share... much appreciated


Youtube for sure. Since Alex installed the star fangled nut and cut the steerer tube on the fork (assuming he did, and not in that order ) the fork should be simple. Look up GMBN tech videos for this and chain length. Derailleur should be easy, again using ParkTools you tube vids. Just lube your cable prior to sending thru the housing to the rear. GMBN has a good video on cable replacement and tensioning, too. Other than where the rear dropouts end up with 27.5s (29er here) which would influence your chain length, that's what I've got. Oh, grease the headset bearings and cups with waterproof grease. Cane Creek has assembly instructions online.
Enjoy the bike.


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## ghebinkim (Nov 8, 2011)

*2019 RSD Middlechild Custom Build*

Hey folks, wanted to share my build with y'all! Ordered a size medium back in July and slowly built it up over a couple of months. This is the second frame-up build I've done and it went so much more smoothly than the first... wasn't without its set backs of course, but just goes to show that practice makes better (not perfect)!

I'm horribly vain so obviously I had to buy some bling parts for this bike. Pretty happy with how it turned out! Unfortunately can't seriously ride it for a few weeks as I'm starting rehab after knee surgery, but at least I'll get to mosey around on some gravel trails and fire roads. Full album here.

*Details:*
Frame: 2019 RSD Middlechild, Size Medium, Turquise
Fork: Fox 34 Factory, 140mm travel, 44mm offset
Wheelset: Stans No Tubes Baron MK3, 35mm inner width
Tires: Specialized Butcher/Slaughter 2.8, actually measures out to 2.75" so pretty close!
Seatpost: Fox Factory Transfer, 125mm, internal routing
Brakes: Shimano XT quad piston
Drivetrain: Shimano XT 11-speed
Cockpit: OneUp carbon bars, 35mm length Paul stem, Wolf tooth lever


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## 9GUY9 (Jul 14, 2007)

Great looking bike. I think you will dig it when you get the chance to throw a leg over it. I've been riding mine for a couple weeks now and its still making me smile. Its the most capable hardtail I've ever been on; climbs great, handling is quick and responsive, and it will descend anything you point it down.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

X2. welcome to the middle child club. Beautiful bike.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

ghebinkim,

Bike is lookin in the groove! Bling, you say... The M/C deserves groovy parts, yes. 
You'll get some great therapy for that knee when you can start out. Just do it in moderation and all will be good.
Gratz!

My M/C is a one speed automatic and I cannot get enough of it.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

that is a very cool build, the colors match nicely!


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

ghebinkim said:


> Hey folks, wanted to share my build with y'all! Ordered a size medium back in July and slowly built it up over a couple of months. This is the second frame-up build I've done and it went so much more smoothly than the first... wasn't without its set backs of course, but just goes to show that practice makes better (not perfect)!
> 
> I'm horribly vain so obviously I had to buy some bling parts for this bike. Pretty happy with how it turned out! Unfortunately can't seriously ride it for a few weeks as I'm starting rehab after knee surgery, but at least I'll get to mosey around on some gravel trails and fire roads. Full album here.
> 
> ...


Super nice build!

Slightly off topic, how do you like those One Up bars? Do they really cut down on the trail chatter compared to typical aluminum bars?


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

kryten said:


> Super nice build!
> 
> Slightly off topic, how do you like those One Up bars? Do they really cut down on the trail chatter compared to typical aluminum bars?


I've got the one up cabon bars on my middle child. They feel like a good carbon bar to me (they feel like a raceface next r). They're not as stiff as a santa cruz bar, which is good to me. The one ups aren't noticeably compliant to me. I feel like lowering your front tire 1psi would make more of a difference.

But as far as carbon bars go, I like these as much as any others, and they're quite affordable.


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

hardtail party said:


> I've got the one up cabon bars on my middle child. They feel like a good carbon bar to me (they feel like a raceface next r). They're not as stiff as a santa cruz bar, which is good to me. The one ups aren't noticeably compliant to me. I feel like lowering your front tire 1psi would make more of a difference.
> 
> But as far as carbon bars go, I like these as much as any others, and they're quite affordable.


Thanks for the reply. I got bunch of One Up stuff on my bike and really like it, but seems like these while very nice bars are maybe not a 'game changer' for comfort? I did not have a chance to try any carbon bars on any bike so far. Only had Race Face Turbine, Atlas, Aeffect, Funn Full On and a bunch of house brand bars on my previous bikes and have Deity CZ 38s on my MC now, but still have some tweaking to do to make it easier on my wrists.

Btw enjoying the channel. :thumbsup:


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Heya Kryten, glad you're enjoying the MC. 

While I haven't had the opportunity to try out carbon bars yet. The important issue being upsweep is a must. The carbon search will resume in the near future when I get with a loco frame builder and search the bins.

On the MC topic, my MC had a street session on various features around Aspen today. Was perfect temp, sunshine and a few very nice elements that couldn't be better.
The fountains at the pestrian mall as a typical haunt for a proper launch! Damn, those are unchanged after all these years. With a lovely approach that was designed for bikes, I am amazed that peeps don't hit it more. Many great features along with a roll through the skate park were on tap.

The MC is a fantastic bike for everything so far, be it rail trails, street session and more!

The rail trail... Tasty!!
After hearing some peeps saying that plussers are slow and sluggish, those blokes were dumbfounded when a certain Tennis Ball Yellow plusser was leaving em in the dust with no real effort. 3.0's put a few 29 squishy bikes on notice, yus minus bikes, on freakin notice! The new kid in town is a one speed automatic and those blokes with squish n gears, the MC says, too hip, gotta rail!

Dammit, Alex, the MC is in a class all its own, period...


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## manteufel (Oct 27, 2017)

How good of a climber is the middlechild?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

manteufel said:


> How good of a climber is the middlechild?


Firstly, my MC is a Singlespeed. Climbing is awesome in my experience.
Overall handling is excellent. Descending is excellent.

Flow trails, amazing! I love railing the flow trails with the MC due to the fact that it feels like I'm riding a minus bike.
I run with 3.0's mostly with the exception of a pair of G-One 2.8's for street assaults.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

For climbing, it's more about the rider than the bike. Personally, I like a technical climb even more than a good downhille, and I climb really well with this bike. There are some climbs that are easier on my full suspension, and some climbs that are easier on my middle child. But out of all the hardtails I've owned, this one is my favorite to climb with. The big plus tires definitely help too.

I guess it depends on what type of climbing you're talking about. For a long, non-technical fire road, I'd rather have an ultralight xc race bike. But that's about the only place I'd want one. For technical stuff, I love the MC.

Most hardtails climb quite similarly to me, with the main differences being bar position, head angle, weight, and stiffness of the rear end. If you have good balance, you probably won't notice the slack head angle. I prefer climbing with a slack head angle. If you climb super tight switchbacks super slow, you might prefer something with a steeper head angle. For me, it's an incredible climber. The main disadvantage is that it's heavier than most aluminum or carbon hardtail frames, but that also means it's built like a brick house and it's going to take a beating. This frame is overbuilt.

To see how it climbs, check out these videos:






Climbing at 10:16






Climbing at 4:15, 5:24, and all throughout the video (ignore my creaky headset. Once I greased it, the creak went away)






Climbing at 1:47 and 2:10


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## manteufel (Oct 27, 2017)

Thank you!

Such a nice bike! As anyone tried it with 2.6 tires? would that drop the bike too much and get pedal strikes?


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

it would only be 0.1" lower, so I doubt you'd notice it. If you run 29x2.6, it would raise it up a bit. The bb isn't the lowest out there, so there's room for it to drop. in other words, I'd have no issues running even 27.5x2.3 on it, other than the fact that i like the cushion of bigger tires.

I'm tempted to run one of my middle child frames with 26" wheels as a DJ/skatepark bike.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Hardtail, thanks for the videos! I'ma wayyy too lazy to do em.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I dont blame you, it's a ton of work.


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## tjchad (Aug 15, 2009)

hardtail party said:


> I'm tempted to run one of my middle child frames with 26" wheels as a DJ/skatepark bike.


That would be fun to see. I have a 2015 Chromag Stylus 26" with a 27.5 Pike on it. tons of fun. I like seeing video of people playing with bullet proof HTs in DJ/Skatepark environments.

BTW... love the Hardtail Party videos. Both you and your wife make entertaining videos. You guys did rope me in twice though on the new bike rack videos!


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

Do any of you guys that ride in snow conditions treat your frames with products like Frame Saver or Fluid Film? I'm considering doing this to my MC, but not sure if it is necessary. 

I have another 'do it all around town' aluminum commuter bike, so my MC is only for actual trail riding, but I do have a short commute to get to the trailhead and for linking trails in the river valley. City only uses salt on main roads and some downtown bike lanes so I can generally stay away from those for the most part. I store my bike in the house and it dries out quickly. Never had an issue with my aluminum fatbike so far, but first time on a chromoly frame.

Anyway, just wondering if this is really needed or if I'm just overthinking this? I have the 360 degree nozzle 24" wand for Fluid Film aerosol cans, so I was hoping I would be able to get away with just removing the seat post and BB to get access to the whole frame.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

kryten said:


> Do any of you guys that ride in snow conditions treat your frames with products like Frame Saver or Fluid Film? I'm considering doing this to my MC, but not sure if it is necessary.
> 
> I have another 'do it all around town' aluminum commuter bike, so my MC is only for actual trail riding, but I do have a short commute to get to the trailhead and for linking trails in the river valley. City only uses salt on main roads and some downtown bike lanes so I can generally stay away from those for the most part. I store my bike in the house and it dries out quickly. Never had an issue with my aluminum fatbike so far, but first time on a chromoly frame.
> 
> Anyway, just wondering if this is really needed or if I'm just overthinking this? I have the 360 degree nozzle 24" wand for Fluid Film aerosol cans, so I was hoping I would be able to get away with just removing the seat post and BB to get access to the whole frame.


I have been without a car these last 20 years. Pedaling daily i know 1 thing to avoid is... washing, it creates all kinds of problem. Just wipe the excess.
Often i use sidewalks wich get small gravel so less salt and safer. 
Use studs and you will be fine. I did inside, outside.


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

kryten said:


> Do any of you guys that ride in snow conditions treat your frames with products like Frame Saver or Fluid Film? I'm considering doing this to my MC, but not sure if it is necessary.
> 
> I have another 'do it all around town' aluminum commuter bike, so my MC is only for actual trail riding, but I do have a short commute to get to the trailhead and for linking trails in the river valley. City only uses salt on main roads and some downtown bike lanes so I can generally stay away from those for the most part. I store my bike in the house and it dries out quickly. Never had an issue with my aluminum fatbike so far, but first time on a chromoly frame.
> 
> Anyway, just wondering if this is really needed or if I'm just overthinking this? I have the 360 degree nozzle 24" wand for Fluid Film aerosol cans, so I was hoping I would be able to get away with just removing the seat post and BB to get access to the whole frame.


I sprayed fluid film into my middlechild frame. I do not ride it on the road in the winter when there is salt and slush. My previous hardtail was a steel honzo and I saw small amount of rust start inside the frame when removing the BB or seat post after a winter trip to Vancouver Island where every ride was wet. Considering you have an attachment to make the application easier and fluid film is dirt cheap and works very well as this thread shows. (https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/anti-corrosion-product-shootout-1073581.html) I would spray it just because it is steel and some rust can develop even with small amount of exposure to moisture.


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

chris705 said:


> I sprayed fluid film into my middlechild frame. I do not ride it on the road in the winter when there is salt and slush. My previous hardtail was a steel honzo and I saw small amount of rust start inside the frame when removing the BB or seat post after a winter trip to Vancouver Island where every ride was wet. Considering you have an attachment to make the application easier and fluid film is dirt cheap and works very well as this thread shows. (https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/anti-corrosion-product-shootout-1073581.html) I would spray it just because it is steel and some rust can develop even with small amount of exposure to moisture.


I have read through that thread yesterday and was happy to see Fluid Film win as I use it to spray my truck frame every year with good results.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

kryten said:


> Do any of you guys that ride in snow conditions treat your frames with products like Frame Saver or Fluid Film? I'm considering doing this to my MC, but not sure if it is necessary.


I used to frame save all my steel frames and then I skipped that with two of my fatbikes. They were ridden through a few Canadian winters then I moved to coast where they were ridden in PNWet winter conditions. They also made several trips down to the Baja and lived outside literally a frisbee throw from the ocean for months at a time plus were ridden through the surf area with salt water spray coming up from the wheels.

End result was some minor surface rust on the outside of the frame because I was too lazy to wash them down with fresh water. No rust inside the frame based on the condition of the seat tube/BB area.

I just got a fancy custom steel hardtail and I didn't bother frame saving it or doing anything to protect it from rust. It will run with a rear Mudhugger fender so that keeps rear tire spray from hitting the top of the seattube and running down to the BB. It also has a drain hole in the BB should any water get that far.

FWIW - if I have a steel frame exposed to road salt or ocean water again I'll wash it down with fresh water occasionally. The surface rust on my fatbikes didn't do any real damage, but it was ugly and I ended up sanding it off and re-powder coating the frame. A little bit of effort washing the salt off would have saved me that hassle.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I'd check with Alex at RSD. I know a few companies treat their steel frames inside and out to prevent corrosion.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

I have sealed the little vent holes on my frame with silicone sealant. Use it sparingly and eliminate mouse holes. 
Proper lubrication of the seat post and resist using your bike as a submarine.

Read up on rust issues in Just J's thread... Not a pleasant way to buy an expensive frame!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Be careful with silicone. I've heard that it attracts water and can actually accelerate rust. I'm no expert, but I remember reading about it on a van build where their van rusted super quick.


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## RSD Bikes (Sep 18, 2009)

hardtail party said:


> I'd check with Alex at RSD. I know a few companies treat their steel frames inside and out to prevent corrosion.


Correct. the entire frame, inside and out, was treated with ED Coating prior to painting, so there is no need for any additional treatment.


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

RSD Bikes said:


> Correct. the entire frame, inside and out, was treated with ED Coating prior to painting, so there is no need for any additional treatment.


Perfect, small details like this are very much appreciated and also thank you for posting here and clarifying that. :thumbsup:


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> Be careful with silicone. I've heard that it attracts water and can actually accelerate rust. I'm no expert, but I remember reading about it on a van build where their van rusted super quick.


Wives and tall tales, I suspect. After 35 years in the automotive biz and having not witnessed any sealant do such a thing. DOT fluid, yus... Look at cast iron master cylinders with more rust that the Titanic.
With just enough Ultra Grey to seal those silly little holes against moisture on many steel frames over decades and zero rust. Most of my steel frames were built, weld by weld by my grubby mitts due to bicycle addiction and are finished in House Of Color for that bitchen look that comes from that exquisite material.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

AL MiddleChild coming now too - https://rsdbikes.com/portfolio/middlechild-aluminum/
:thumbsup:


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

This bike rocks. I think there are only two or three other hardtails I'd feel comfortable attempting the snotch on. If you've ridden the whole enchilada in Moab, you know just how gnarly this section is. I was able to clean every inch of the trail (including the 1000ft climb up burro) on this bike. If that's not versatile, I don't know what is.


__
http://instagr.am/p/B3xBDtQnEyk/

Edit: is there a way to embed an instagram video here?


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

hardtail party said:


> This bike rocks. I think there are only two or three other hardtails I'd feel comfortable attempting the snotch on. If you've ridden the whole enchilada in Moab, you know just how gnarly this section is. I was able to clean every inch of the trail (including the 1000ft climb up burro) on this bike. If that's not versatile, I don't know what is.


Nice riding there!!!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks, it was a big achievement for me.

And yes, I'm stoked for an alloy middlechild, that's going to be awesome! I'm excited to try one.


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## 9GUY9 (Jul 14, 2007)

Great riding Hardtail party! I've watched several vids of people attempting to ride that with mixed success. I think I'm going to just keep following you around the internet and buying the bikes you praise. I bought my Middle Child after reading your reviews of it. Now I just bought a Spot Mayhem, in part due to your praise. I'm totally loving both bikes!

I am wondering what the alloy will add to the equation though. In my eyes much of the beauty of the middle child is the fact its a steel frame. Lower price and weight are nice, but I'll stick with bomb proof steel. I guess if the alloy gets more people on this super fun bike, its a win!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Awesome, the mayhem and rollik are incredible bikes. Glad you're digging yours. I'm super picky when it comes to bikes and those are great choices.

I like that the aluminum mc will get more people on a good geobike. 90% of the people who ask me which bike ro get have a $1200-1800 budget. There arent many hardtails in that budget with decent geo, but now the alloy mc will fit that bill. Plus it's probably noticeable lighter over the steel one. For seasoned riders who understand the difference between frame materials and how they ride, they'll still spring for the steel and ti versions.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> Awesome, the mayhem and rollik are incredible bikes. Glad you're digging yours. I'm super picky when it comes to bikes and those are great choices.
> 
> I like that the aluminum mc will get more people on a good geobike. 90% of the people who ask me which bike ro get have a $1200-1800 budget. There arent many hardtails in that budget with decent geo, but now the alloy mc will fit that bill. Plus it's probably noticeable lighter over the steel one. For seasoned riders who understand the difference between frame materials and how they ride, they'll still spring for the steel and ti versions.


The Al frame is something that will bring a great ride to more peeps, indeed. Many conversations on that topic have been had with Alex in that regard. I think that was a great direction to take such a well sorted geo bike.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

hardtail party said:


> For seasoned riders who understand the difference between frame materials and how they ride, they'll still spring for the steel and ti versions.


I could definitely see this for the TI, however from the stiffness reports I've heard on the steel.... I'm not sure you would notice that much of a difference with a plus rear tire. The weight savings of the AL frame could be more important to some people than that little bit of rear triangle compliance difference.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

That's a great point. I'd love to ride them back to back to see if they feel much different.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Even with plus tires frame material/stiffness makes a big difference in how a hardtail rides.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I wouldnt say the cromo frame is "supple", but it is absorbs vibration and noise better than most aluminum frames. The one exception is the alloy chameleon. For some reason the chameleon is more supple than the steel mc. However the geo on the mc is way better, so its worth it for me. 

I'm excited to see how the alloy mc rides.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

The issue with ride quality and frame stiffness is that it's very rider dependant. A bike too flexible for me at 195lb could be too stiff for my 120lb GF. Some folks hate a dead feeling overly stiff frame and others figure that a good bike feels really stiff. 

If RSD is offering the MC in 3 materials at least riders have a lot of options to get what they want.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

vikb said:


> The issue with ride quality and frame stiffness is that it's very rider dependant. A bike too flexible for me at 195lb could be too stiff for my 120lb GF. Some folks hate a dead feeling overly stiff frame and others figure that a good bike feels really stiff.
> 
> If RSD is offering the MC in 3 materials at least riders have a lot of options to get what they want.


All true and yes the frame material still does make a difference with plus tires, but its less noticeable from my experiences.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

A lot of people have been wondering how the ti MC compares to the cromo version. Here are my thoughts:


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## Brandt1 (Oct 22, 2019)

So I got woken up this morning to the doorbell ringing and this box of joy needing to be signed for 

I wasn't confident enough to assemble the bike myself so I sucked it up and had a shop do it for me. I tried to find people nearby that could've helped but wasn't successful in doing so. I did consider just buying some tools and trying it but the thought of maybe messing something up kept popping in my head.

The only thing I'm a little iffy on is the placement of the Maxle levers. This is how every bike in their shop was and he said it was fine when I asked. So I'll just do some more research tonight on it. Dropper cable is also pretty long but I'll take care of that later.

So a little about me, last time I rode a bike was about 8-ish years ago. I had a department store bike and I was moving so I just gave it to a neighbor that wanted a bike. My legs are pretty bad from the military so walking is difficult, but somehow on a bike I feel better. That's why I wanted to get back into it. Off and on I have wanted a bike and kept getting overwhelmed by the options. I finally decided on one, the Middle Child. 


My first ride was on pavement around the neighborhood a few times. I don't have a helmet yet (it's on the list of stuff I want to order and some basic tools I should have) and around here that is all I felt comfortable riding. Took me a minute to get my balance back haha. I never forgot how to ride a bike but it was a feeling I wasn't used to and was a little wobbly at first, especially with standing up on the pedals, but it all came back to me pretty quick. However everything felt great besides my butt, so that'll take some time to get used to. Maybe riding in jeans isn't the smartest thing to do either but it'll all I own and wear.

I look forward to getting into this side of biking, even growing up I never went offroad so I'll have to make the hour drive to some trails that aren't paved around me once i get a helmet and such. I rode for maybe a mile and my legs were feeling it so I know it will take some time to build up muscles that I haven't used in a long time.

I would like to give some shoutouts also.

First: Alex at RSD. He was very patient with me off and on for a week and a half and worked with me. Answered every question quickly and thoroughly. I knew I wanted the bike since I kept going right back to the Middle Child after looking at any other bike. The customer service that was provided really sealed the deal for me. Thanks for everything!

Second: Steve or Hardtail Party. I found your channel a few months ago when my journey started again with looking at bikes. I originally found you because of your Chameleon bike check on Tess's channel. I've never commented on either of your channels but I watch every video. This is when I saw the video of you building up the Middle Child and I was interested in the bike since then. I knew I didn't want or need a full suspension but seeing so many channels out there constantly show them instead of hardtails was discouraging until your videos. Seeing the fun you and your friends have and everything you're able to do was helpful.

Thank you for everything you do on your channel and having the mentality that you share on your videos. You have inspired me to do a lot of riding and maybe even revive my channel from the dead when I can afford a GoPro or something.

Overall this was such an exciting day finally getting to experience something I have been wanting to get back into for years and looking forward to the many more memories I get in the future.

Edit: Not sure why pictures aren't showing. They did in the preview before posting. Maybe my account is to new to post them. I'll try again with attachments instead.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Congrats on a great bike, and welcome to the amazing sport of mountain biking. I'm glad you understand how important a helmet is. Keep the rubber side down!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Brandt1, welcome to the MiddleChild addict's group! Congratz

Take your time getting back in the bike mode. You made a good choice in bikes since the M/C is a very well behaved, exceptional experience. I hafta admit, Hardtail has been a great inspiration with his videos and such. So, a thankya goes your way, Hardtail!
Frankly, I've been too lazy to capture my rides and leave the phone behind on most rides. Bikes before business, I say! 

Speaking of Alex, that guy needs to pop in here and share some ride reports....


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

This may be somewhat off topic, but curious what are the difference between boost 27.5, boost 29 and boost 27.5+/29 forks. I've noticed all models of MC and Wildcat come with 27.5+/29 51mm offset Pike or Recon as shown on the upper right leg, but they seem to be fairly rare. When I build my MC, I bought a take off Yari 27.5+/29 51mm one, but I still don't understand the actual differences since most people say boost 29 fits 27.5+ (at least up to 2.8, maybe some 3"), so why then have a separate product?

More off topic, just realized if I ever feel the need to go back to FS bike, every single component transfers from my MC to the new Wildcat v2. Even then I don't see myself ever selling my MC frame. :nono:


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

kryten said:


> This may be somewhat off topic, but curious what are the difference between boost 27.5, boost 29 and boost 27.5+/29 forks. I've noticed all models of MC and Wildcat come with 27.5+/29 51mm offset Pike or Recon as shown on the upper right leg, but they seem to be fairly rare. When I build my MC, I bought a take off Yari 27.5+/29 51mm one, but I still don't understand the actual differences since most people say boost 29 fits 27.5+ (at least up to 2.8, maybe some 3"), so why then have a separate product?
> 
> More off topic, just realized if I ever feel the need to go back to FS bike, every single component transfers from my MC to the new Wildcat v2. Even then I don't see myself ever selling my MC frame. :nono:


The major factor is "rake" which is the 51mm offset you mention. There are variants with 48mm offset or rake. When it comes to 29+, the axle to crown will be longer than a 29/27.5+ model to accommodate the increased diameter.

The MC might be ok with lending the Wildcat some parts short term buuuuttt, wants em back sooner than later, don'tcha know...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My GF ordered a MC. The sale was too hard to pass up. It will be her first hardtail [real] MTB so it will be interesting to see what she thinks. We looked at a GG Pedalhead, Chromag Rootdown or a Pipedream Moxie, but the MC was just such a good price it won out. 

Living in the PNWet some winter rides are full mud-pocalypse and perfect for a hardtail. She also has some interest in bikepacking. The MC will be a good place for her to start without tying up a lot of $$.

Her riding has really progressed so she may embrace the hardtail experience and ride it a ton or she may use it mainly as a backup for her GG Smash FS bike when the weather is tragic. Time will tell. 

_BTW - Random PB pic above nothing to do with us, but I figured you can't have too many MTB pics! _


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Anyone know what differences [if any] there are between the 2019 MC and the 2020 MC? I'm talking changes to the frame not the build kit.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

vikb said:


> Anyone know what differences [if any] there are between the 2019 MC and the 2020 MC? I'm talking changes to the frame not the build kit.


Think it's just different color options, otherwise the same frame.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

We got the GF's MC yesterday. Took a week to go from Ontario to BC. Given that shipping was included in the low price I am not complaining. Bike was well packed and FEDEX did not manhandle the box too badly.

I rarely buy complete bikes because in order to hit the price point in question there are usually a lot of junk parts and corners cut that annoy me. Not to mention you can spend $100-$200 replacing crappy parts with new ones that you like before you even ride the bike. :nono:

I have to tip my hat to RSD on the MC. Every part I looked at as I unpacked the box was quality and a keeper right down to the saddle and grips. Heck the wheels had nice Schwalbe tubes in them! We'll keep those so the GF can carry a spare in case of tubeless failure. The build is definitely value oriented with no bling, but also no obvious weak spots either. Given the price I'm fairly blown away. Nice job RSD. 

The bike was also extremely well packed. FEDEX didn't test the packing job, but it's nice to know the folks at RSD care enough to make sure your bike arrives undamaged.

The weight of the frame, wheels and key parts all feels pretty reasonable. Again no junk/boat anchor parts that scream "UPGRADE ME!!!" right out of the box. I helped a friend with a well known steel hardtail brand bike recently and I kept thinking "man X is junk, Y is junk, we'll need to replace all sorts of stuff". The MC has a far better build kit at a lower price.

The only three negative things I can say at this point [just to provide the full picture for any prospective customers] are:

1. Bike requires a lot of assembly.
2. Frame looks really burly.
3. Dropper options were short at 100mm or 125mm.

If you aren't good with spinning wrenches you'll want to take your MC box down to a LBS or a handy friend's place and get them to build it for you. On the plus side a lot of the "hard" stuff is done like installing BB/cranks, cutting fork steerer and installing headset cups. On the other hand there is still a lot to do and unless you feel confident building a bike from the frame up you'll need some help.

Personally I like getting a complete bike like this since I don't trust the competence of the people building complete bikes so I'd rather do it myself. So in this case I was actually pretty happy to get a frame and a box of parts.

The frame looks burly. The big steel tubes worry me a bit in that my GF is 120lbs and she's not hammering with the fury of Thor on the pedals. I knew this was the main "risk" getting the MC based on reviews I had read/watched on YT so this wasn't a surprise. Time will tell if the bike feels punishingly harsh for her or not. Given how good the sale was and the quality of the build kit we'll be okay even if we end up selling the frame in a year and moving to something with more flex. *fingers crossed* that's not necessary.

To be fair if you are 250lbs and all muscle the fact this frame is burly is a benefit so this aspect of the bike really depends on the rider.

The dropper options are both pretty short. It would have been nice to get one that was 150mm, but again for a $200 CAD upcharge to get a quality Lev dropper it's not something we can feel too bad about. She'll ride it until it fails and then get something longer.

So all in all the MC purchase was a very positive experience. We've got a really rainy weekend ahead on the BC Coast so I can crack a few beers tonight and build up the MC at a leisurely pace. Then hopefully get the GF out for an easy ride between heavy rain showers to get everything dialed.

Thanks to Steve @Hardtail Party on YT for getting the GF stoked on a hardtail and the MC specifically. :thumbsup:

FWIW - I had one technical question I needed answered about the bike and sent Alex an email last night after work BC time...so late evening his time out East. I got a reply right away that gave me the answer I needed. Great CS in case I was wanting to knock out the build ASAP last night.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Here are some weights for those that care:

- small frame = ~6.21lbs
- front wheel = ~2.16lbs
- rear wheel = ~2.66lbs

I'll add in other components as I weigh them during the build.

Wheels came with tubes installed so you can ride right away by just pumping them up.

I set them up tubeless by removing the tubes, adding in some Stan's valve stems from our parts bin, adding some Stan's sealant and then hitting them with a floor pump that has one of those tubeless assist reservoirs. The Maxxis DHF/DHR tires popped right up and the beads seated without issue. The tires are 2.8" on the sidewall. I'll post an actual width at ride pressure once I've let them stretch out at 30psi for a while. Tires are 3C Maxxterra with EXO casing. That seems like the logical spec for this bike given a wide variety of possible riders and trails.

The rim was taped really nicely so you only need to add your own valve stems and sealant to go tubeless.

The tubes were quality Schwalbe products so we'll get all the air out of them, roll 'em up and carry one on the bike in case she ever gets a complete tubeless failure that we can't plug. Hasn't happened in years, but sure as $hit it will happen next ride if we don't carry a spare tube!

We don't run Cushcore or any tire inserts.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Looks so good! Lucky lady.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm going to be selling a small ti MC frame (raw, like new), and a cro-mo yellow MC cro-mo frame (steel, used with scuffs, but in good shape) if anyone is in the market.


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## Brandt1 (Oct 22, 2019)

The quality parts are one thing that also drew me to the MC. I would look up a lot of the components to see great reviews of everything. I've only ridden mine for 2 weeks and maybe 30 miles. Mostly on pavement in the neighborhood and a dirt "trail" and grass. Think a sidewalk but no pavement haha it's such a great experience though. The only thing I want to change or maybe it was installed by the LBS incorrectly is the little barrel nut thing (is that what's it's called? It's on the cable for the lever to press against it) on the KGP lever for the dropper. Every couple days it comes loose. 

I want to go tubeless but I don't think that's necessary at the moment for mostly pavement use.

The weighing of parts is interesting to me also. I can see on the site how much the bike would weigh if I went tubeless but at the same time it's all I know with bikes. I don't remember what aluminum bikes feel like and I've never been on titanium or carbon. I would be curious to try other bikes at some point to feel the difference. I need to go to a bike event to demo other bikes if one ever comes near hear  

I'm just begging for it to warm up until I can find a pair of pants that will be tighter on the legs. My jeans keep getting caught in the chainring and 30F with bone chilling wind is miserable in shorts.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Brandt1 said:


> I'm just begging for it to warm up until I can find a pair of pants that will be tighter on the legs. My jeans keep getting caught in the chainring and 30F with bone chilling wind is miserable in shorts.


Any bike shop will have an inexpensive pant strap that keeps your pants out of the chain/chainring. I use them all the time when I am riding in the city. Or you can just tuck your right pant leg into your socks for free.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> I'm going to be selling a small ti MC frame (raw, like new), and a cro-mo yellow MC cro-mo frame (steel, used with scuffs, but in good shape) if anyone is in the market.


Wut??

No love...



Brandt1 said:


> The quality parts are one thing that also drew me to the MC. I would look up a lot of the components to see great reviews of everything. I've only ridden mine for 2 weeks and maybe 30 miles. Mostly on pavement in the neighborhood and a dirt "trail" and grass. Think a sidewalk but no pavement haha it's such a great experience though. The only thing I want to change or maybe it was installed by the LBS incorrectly is the little barrel nut thing (is that what's it's called? It's on the cable for the lever to press against it) on the KGP lever for the dropper. Every couple days it comes loose.
> 
> I want to go tubeless but I don't think that's necessary at the moment for mostly pavement use.
> 
> ...


It only gets better... My little friend is a SS and I just cannot get enough of it. The return to SS has been entertaining.
Tubeless, whadda nightmare for my routine tire swaps... I have 3 pair of tires that I swap in and out depending on the days ride. I use Q-Tube SL 26 x 2.7 and they are flawless and dauntless. Peeps seem to think that they will not fit well and be too tight on a 27.5 rim. Fortunately, they fit loosely on the rim and are my answer to the tubeless headache since I have ridden many miles with the same tire setup tubeless as well as SL tubed and cannot discern a difference. Weight, very close when the excess tape and sealant are in the recipe leaving a negligible difference in weight. This is a MiddleChild, not a Pinerello so weight is not a major concern.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Haha, everyone assumes I'm leaving RSD when I post something for sale. I LOVE my RSD bikes, and the customer service from Alex is second to none. I'm VERY happy with RSD.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I have 3 middle children right now and a Sergeant v2. Something's gotta go to make room for a wildcat v2. 

In all seriousness though, I find the med fits me best here in Sedona. I'd like to free up some garage space with the two small frames I have sitting around. I figure, why be selfish and hoard two great frames that others could be enjoying? Somebody could save hundreds on a new frame, and I can free up some spare room. I wish I had enough parts to build all 3 up, but I really only need two or three bikes in my life. The MC is so versatile, I find myself riding it 95% of the time.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> Haha, everyone assumes I'm leaving RSD when I post something for sale. I LOVE my RSD bikes, and the customer service from Alex is second to none. I'm VERY happy with RSD.


Pfft! Dry humor strikes again!



hardtail party said:


> I have 3 middle children right now and a Sergeant v2. Something's gotta go to make room for a wildcat v2.
> 
> In all seriousness though, I find the med fits me best here in Sedona. I'd like to free up some garage space with the two small frames I have sitting around. I figure, why be selfish and hoard two great frames that others could be enjoying? Somebody could save hundreds on a new frame, and I can free up some spare room. I wish I had enough parts to build all 3 up, but I really only need two or three bikes in my life. The MC is so versatile, I find myself riding it 95% of the time.


If they aren't all in a rideable state... I have a collection of 5 RSD's cause I need a 12 step program!! The collective is 15 in total ranging from vintage rigs to trials specific to the RSD's.

Who gets the miles???

MC, Sarge V1, Wildcat, Mayor and the seatless trials bike.

Back to you, glad to hear you found the size that does best for ya. Great bike for so many styles of terrain and features. 
Wildcat's gonna be a real treat for ya! I have the V1 and love the hell outta dat bike.
Sedona, great bike habitat!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I just wrapped up the MC build. Overall it went pretty well. RSD has cut all the housing [less dropper] to the correct lengths so you don't have to mess around too much. You do need to be able to adjust shifting and brakes though. As well as install a headset [cups are already in frame]. Plus set tires up tubeless if you want to roll that way.

Basically easy home mechanic jobs, but enough that it could be challenging if you rarely spin a wrench.










Bars and saddle are roughly in the right spots. We'll do an easy spin today and figure out some fine tuning and then I'll cut the steerer. Sizing looks good for her [5'6"]. I had some carbon RF Next R bars laying around so I installed those instead of the alloy RF bar that comes stock with the bike. I cut her bars down to her usual 760mm width. The stock grips are decent, but she wanted some pink bling so she got some RF grips and I'll keep the stock grips for future use.










RF Chester pedals were on clearance so we got them and put a Mudhugger rear fender on for PNWet riding. She'll get a Muhugger front fender as well [in the mail], but for now I just put a simple flap fender on. I had to notch the rear fender to clear the CS brake hose brazeon and I routed the brake hose under the CS instead.

We ride steep techy terrain a lot so I put a 28T oval ring on instead of the stock 30T ring. I also put a MRP ISCG adaptor on the BB and a taco style bashguard since we have lots of rocks to deal with.










A couple minor issues cropped up. I noticed that there was a defect in the powder coat on the end of the NDS dropout. Nothing major, but if you are picky that could irritate you. We'll just put some clear nail polish on it so it doesn't rust and forget about it. It's hard to see when standing next to the bike. And for the price I'd say the finish on the frame is excellent aside from that one issue.

The dropper lever is not great. Given the price for adding the dropper to the build it's not something I feel bad about, but it's going to get replaced at some point with a Wolf Tooth or PNW lever.










We are still stoked with the purchase. I only point out the small negatives so other folks have all the info when deciding on their purchase. When I look at the big picture of cost, capability and quality I think RSD knocked it out of the park on this bike.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Vik, nicely done, Mr. Sounds like Momma's rolling in style! 

The only finish issue that I can find so far has been the fact that the slider should have no coating on the surface that the bolts land on. That is a flaw by the finisher that needs resolved since my frame does have some chipping from tweaking the sliders to accommodate a SS setup.

Vik: Honey, can it ride your bike?
Mrs. Vik: Mitts off!!! Get your own, dear...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

BansheeRune said:


> Vik: Honey, can it ride your bike?
> Mrs. Vik: Mitts off!!! Get your own, dear...


I'm a 29+ guy so the MC 27+ doesn't really tempt me. That an it's 1.5" too short for me. But, I will appreciate it from a distance.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Dammit, Vik, work with me! 

I'd be more inclined toward 29+ if were more trialsy. The MC will do 29 x 2.6 but I am firmly in the + segment and that just doesn't say + properly.

Looking forward to some ride reports from you and Mrs. Vik. I think she's gonna be very happy with her new bike. 

Good times, brother, good times...


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

Very nice build and great color match with those Chester pedals. Where did you get the Mudhugger fender? I've been trying to source some in Canada, and whenever I find a place to order them from, cost of shipping spoils the deal every time so far.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

kryten said:


> Very nice build and great color match with those Chester pedals. Where did you get the Mudhugger fender? I've been trying to source some in Canada, and whenever I find a place to order them from, cost of shipping spoils the deal every time so far.


I order from Merlin Cycles in the UK. Good prices. Free shipping. Takes a moment to get from the UK to Canada, but no hassles beyond a few extra days waiting.

https://bikes.merlincycles.com/search?w=mudhugger


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

BansheeRune said:


> Dammit, Vik, work with me!
> 
> I'd be more inclined toward 29+ if were more trialsy. The MC will do 29 x 2.6 but I am firmly in the + segment and that just doesn't say + properly.
> 
> ...












We did an urban ride to get everything dialed. ~22kms with a stop to pick up some bike tools for the MC [tire levers, mini-pump, multi-tool, tubeless plugs, spare chain master link, etc..]. Other than adjusting the seat higher and bars lower she's happy. One of this bike's missions is bikepacking so sitting and covering easy terrain efficiently is important.

She was feeling good about the riding position/fit. The DHF/DHR rolled better than I expected them to. I was running some 29+ Chupas which roll fast and she kept up no problem.

My new 29+ hardtail has ~424mm CS and 457mm Reach with a similar HTA. So it fits in pretty much between a Med and a Lrg Middle Child in terms of Geo. I wouldn't call this modern geo trialsy as it's a lot longer than what would have been "standard" 5-6 years ago, but I also don't find it cumbersome. We ride a lot of slow speed tight techy trails and I can make it through comfortably.

My older 29+ bike feels like an adult BMX now that new bikes have gotten so long in Reach + WB. The 29+ wheels don't hold it back at all from being nimble and playful.

She's getting one of the Rogue Panda Oracle downtube bags shown in the photo above to hold her tools/spares. So she can ride pack free on the MC. :thumbsup:

https://roguepanda.com/shop/oracle-downtube-bag/


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Yay! What good times are on the horizon...

Guessin I need to look closely at 29+ however, 3.0 is a requirement. Perhaps a Waltly Ti built to suit is in order for that tho'.
*AutoCAD loaded*


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

After a wweekend at outerbike demoing as many hardtails as i could, the RSD middle child is still my favorite hardtail on the market (by a long shot). Nothing else came close.


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

hardtail party said:


> After a wweekend at outerbike demoing as many hardtails as i could, the RSD middle child is still my favorite hardtail on the market (by a long shot). Nothing else came close.


What other hardtails did you ride?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

hardtail party said:


> After a wweekend at outerbike demoing as many hardtails as i could, the RSD middle child is still my favorite hardtail on the market (by a long shot). Nothing else came close.


Was it an honest test?
Was is done blindfolded?
Lucky U, last 5 months i did 3 demos, no HT, snif 
What do you like about it?


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

All bikes were ridden on the same loop in moab. I'm not very good at riding singletrack blindfolded, so no blindfolds were involved.  I knew as much info as the vendors gave prior to a test ride. I captured my experience as someone attending the event.

I feel like I'm an honest, straigthforward guy. While it's ignorant to claim we're all unbiased, I focused on sharing my candid thoughts about each bike. There's not a lot of information/reviews on most of these bikes, so I tried to share myexperience. I'm more interested in building my YouTube channel as a go-to place for hardtail info/reviews/inspiration than just promoting RSD and trashing other brands. I've really focused on being transparent with each bike.

You're welcome to watch them on my YouTube channel and see for yourself.

I was hoping for a larger pool to choose from, but many vendors didn't bring their hardtails to the demo. Bikes ridden were: mullet cycles honeymaker, esker hayduke (I chose not to film that review because the bike was so vanilla I didn't have much to say), Reeb Redikyelous, Why S7, and an Ionic Johnny Rotten. 

Sometimes it's nerve-wracking going to a bike demo event because you're scared you'll fall in love with another bike and then be dissatisfied with your bike. There were some great bikes there, and some were fun, but the RSD is still the high-water mark for me. I haven't ridden a hardtail I've liked more.

I've got some thoughts/review videos of the RSD linked above if you're interested in hearing what I love about it.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

33red said:


> Was it an honest test?
> Was is done blindfolded?
> Lucky U, last 5 months i did 3 demos, no HT, snif
> What do you like about it?


Please post some videos of your blindfolded demo mountain bike rides. I think that's something we could all get a lot out of. 

If you can't do videos than just tell us what it's like to demo mountain bikes blindfolded. I respect the commitment level involved in such an undertaking.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I recently had the opportunity to demo Zipp's new 30 moto wheels on the rethink that for some trails:


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Cannot stop laughing, can ya!!
The hub does have a similar sound to CK's. I have a first gen CK that is high pitched and has a very narrow engagement window. After riding an Onyx, it's hard to deal with a large freeplay hub engagement.

With 2.pfft's, I couldn't wait to get back on my 3.0's... Just cannot do the narrow tire these days.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I was skeptical of their marketing claims, but these wheels really surprised me!

I'll still be keeping my plus wheelset, but these wheels are my favorite wheel I've ridden.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

Hello Middlechild owners! 

I was wondering how a Middlechild would do for a careful ridder don't like being thrown around in chatter/rock garden etc... It would be for my 5'5" daughter. I would build it with a 34 140mm fork. I have an Ibis 938 wheelset and would use 2.5/2.6 fast rolling tire to help buff trail imperfection. My 10 years old son is 5'2" (and more aggressive rider) and could use the bike when it will be too small for his sister. Even my girlfriend could probably use it at 5'7" (not sure about that...). Does this bike needs to be ridden hard to perform? I was thinking that bigger wheels with higher volume tires, steel frame and open head angle would give my daughter confidence so she can enjoy trail ridding... It might be better for her to have a trail FS bike but since she's still growing (12 years old) I'm not sure I want to go that route for now...


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

This would be a FANTASTIC bike for what you describe. If you can swing it, I think she'll really like the ti one (softer ride, and 2lbs lighter). I'd recommend a size small. Your son won't break it (he'll fall in love with it), and your daughter should do really well on it too.

It comes alive when ridden hard, but I coach high school XC, and I've thrown every one of my students on this bike (including beginners), and they ride away immediately and come back with a grin saying "it's really different, but that was so much fun!" The harder you push it, the more it shines and separates itself from the crowd of other 29ers, but it can still be ridden mellow/slow with no downsides.

My wife found it to be the easiest bike she's found for popping wheelies and goofing around. I definitely say go for it. Your girlfriend could try it out and see how she likes it. If she has long legs and a short torso, I think a small still might be the right fit for her, unless she's a ripper and she charges downhill (in that case, she might like a med).


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

LewisQC said:


> Hello Middlechild owners!
> 
> I was wondering how a Middlechild would do for a careful ridder don't like being thrown around in chatter/rock garden etc... It would be for my 5'5" daughter. I would build it with a 34 140mm fork. I have an Ibis 938 wheelset and would use 2.5/2.6 fast rolling tire to help buff trail imperfection. My 10 years old son is 5'2" (and more aggressive rider) and could use the bike when it will be too small for his sister. Even my girlfriend could probably use it at 5'7" (not sure about that...). Does this bike needs to be ridden hard to perform? I was thinking that bigger wheels with higher volume tires, steel frame and open head angle would give my daughter confidence so she can enjoy trail ridding... It might be better for her to have a trail FS bike but since she's still growing (12 years old) I'm not sure I want to go that route for now...


Would hafta agree with Hardtail...

Does this bike have to be ridden hard to perform? not in the least! Frankly, I find it to perform magnificently in all situations I have enjoyed it in.

The build you are looking to do should be an awesome experience for your family. While I have a 3.0 addiction (Need a 12 step),
the 2.5/2.6 option is just as amazing. This rig is actually very forgiving when it comes to handling skill. It has a comfortable, stable ride and feel on many terrain types that does inspire confidence. Now the issue comes down to growing kids and the subsequent upsize that will come along. With a well cared for bike, the resale should be reasonable. Don't trash it, ride it and respect it for that aspect.

Easy handling. Stable, comfortable ride. Great for learning as it is rather forgiving. Lotsa pluses, not to mention build tweaks. 
Suspension should come later when the basics are sorted to not create bad habits and poor riding skills that would likely be masked by suspension.



hardtail party said:


> I was skeptical of their marketing claims, but these wheels really surprised me!
> 
> I'll still be keeping my plus wheelset, but these wheels are my favorite wheel I've ridden.


Guessin' I'll hafta look at their offerings. 
I'm cautious since a wheelset should not exceed my typical custom set with Onyx in the middle. That is purely an excuse to get some hubs, rims, spokes and a handful of nipples and put my favorite kind of puzzle together!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

^ well said BansheeRune

I ended up loving the Zipp wheels so much that I got a set. I got a complete front wheel, and a rear rim laced to an Onyx vesper. I've built wheels before, but I'm not a master wheelbuilder, so I had a local wheel wizard to it. He said it was harder than a traditional wheel. He took his time and got it right. I'm thrilled with them. They're not cheap, but man the feeling is awesome. If I were made of money I'd have a 27.5 set too, then I'd experiment with a mullet setup on the MC.


Now, when I say they feel awesome, this is a 20% difference, not night and day. New riders won't feel a difference. But people who have been riding a while will agree that they have a very unique feel, especially on a hardtail.

Tip: if you do end up building a wheelset with them, get 16mm nipples, because they sit so deep in the rim.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

hardtail party said:


> This would be a FANTASTIC bike for what you describe. If you can swing it, I think she'll really like the ti one (softer ride, and 2lbs lighter). I'd recommend a size small. Your son won't break it (he'll fall in love with it), and your daughter should do really well on it too.
> 
> It comes alive when ridden hard, but I coach high school XC, and I've thrown every one of my students on this bike (including beginners), and they ride away immediately and come back with a grin saying "it's really different, but that was so much fun!" The harder you push it, the more it shines and separates itself from the crowd of other 29ers, but it can still be ridden mellow/slow with no downsides.
> 
> My wife found it to be the easiest bike she's found for popping wheelies and goofing around. I definitely say go for it. Your girlfriend could try it out and see how she likes it. If she has long legs and a short torso, I think a small still might be the right fit for her, unless she's a ripper and she charges downhill (in that case, she might like a med).


I found a used small stealth black frame for 450 can$. Since I already have a wheelset, I would only have to find a fork and some other parts. My girlfriend is even slower/careful. Here actual bike is a 2015 Giant XTC 27.5 medium. She feels stretched on it so she might be more confortable on a MC small. Our other bike (which my son will ride next season) is a small Trak X-Caliber with some upgrades. It was my daughter's bike this summer. Thanks for your input, I'll check your YT channel reviews when I have a minute...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

LewisQC said:


> I found a used small stealth black frame for 450 can$. Since I already have a wheelset, I would only have to find a fork and some other parts.


Just a head's up that with their current sale a complete MC is ~$2300CAD incl shipping without dropper or ~$2500CAD incl shipping with a dropper. The build is pretty solid. Just thought I'd mention it in case it made sense to go that route. I like building up bikes from the frame up, but all the little things can add up.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

@lewisqc, I sent you a pm


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> ^ well said BansheeRune
> 
> I ended up loving the Zipp wheels so much that I got a set. I got a complete front wheel, and a rear rim laced to an Onyx vesper. I've built wheels before, but I'm not a master wheelbuilder, so I had a local wheel wizard to it. He said it was harder than a traditional wheel. He took his time and got it right. I'm thrilled with them. They're not cheap, but man the feeling is awesome. If I were made of money I'd have a 27.5 set too, then I'd experiment with a mullet setup on the MC.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the heads up on the nipple thang! 
I really enjoy a wheel build for my bikes as it makes it even more personalized although it doesn't show to others. I'm no master at it, that's Mikesee's job, just one job, Mike! :cornut:

On the Lewis front... Vik makes a good point... Build from frame up can get expensive fast with paying retail for components. When it comes to a gently used frame at a hard to pass price, that makes it worth it tho'.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

vikb said:


> Just a head's up that with their current sale a complete MC is ~$2300CAD incl shipping without dropper or ~$2500CAD incl shipping with a dropper. The build is pretty solid. Just thought I'd mention it in case it made sense to go that route. I like building up bikes from the frame up, but all the little things can add up.


Yes buying bike parts is so expensive, especially wheels and suspension parts... I found on pink bike lots of 2 years old decent 34 fork for around 500$. I already have a decent set of wheels and will take off an 11 speed xt drivetrain from the XS bike of my son that I will sell this winter. I also have Level T brakes lying in my part bin and different cranks as well (might go with sram NX 170mm). So I have to find cockpit, pedals, grips and tire... Not that bad


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Lewis, I bought a RS Pike OEM 500 smackers with uncut steer offa ebay. Just a thought to look there...


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

BansheeRune said:


> Lewis, I bought a RS Pike OEM 500 smackers with uncut steer offa ebay. Just a thought to look there...


Yeah I had a look... I find in general that for canada eBay is rarely interesting when you consider shipping/duty/exchange rate as most item are outside of the country.

That complet build at 25% discount though is very tempting... I didn't notice before how well the bike is spec for the price. I wonder if it will go down a bit more with the black friday sale RSD are advertising on their website? That might tip the scale in favor of the new bike.

Anyone has riding time in a 29 2.5/2.4 setup compared to 27.5+?

Edit: Oh and thanks for your responses! I somehow didn't notice BansheeRune post yesterday... With all the good parts on the new bike I don't think I would loose much in the long term... I might even end-up with and XL frame for myself to complement my Ripmo


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

LewisQC said:


> That complet build at 25% discount though is very tempting... I didn't notice before how well the bike is spec for the price. I wonder if it will go down a bit more with the black friday sale RSD are advertising on their website? That might tip the scale in favor of the new bike.


I was pretty blown away the deeper I dug into that build. I am rarely stoked about complete bikes, but this one does not disappoint...all the way down to saddle and grips and tubes.

A lot of sizes and colours are sold out already so don't leave it too long if the complete is of interest. I don't know how much deeper they can go on the sale given it's a lower cost bike to start with and it's selling well at the current discount rate.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I've been running my mc with 29x2.5/2.4 for the last few weeks. It's faster and Carrie's speed better, but in lost a bit of slow speed tech maneuverability. I'm also running the zipp 3zeeo moto wheels, which really soften out the ride. Without thos wheels, I wouldn't like 29ers on this bike for the trails I ride.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Frankly, Alex has done a bang up job on the package. Lewis, you could get hooked and be on a MC very easily!
The complete is hard to beat. Lest names like Onyx and a few others are involved...

Hardtail, I can relate to the Zipp setup on 2.4/2.5 as a 2.8/3.0 would not compliment the wheels well. 

Vik's right! Don't wait if your sizes are available. It's selling well.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

LewisQC said:


> Yeah I had a look... I find in general that for canada eBay is rarely interesting when you consider shipping/duty/exchange rate as most item are outside of the country.
> 
> That complet build at 25% discount though is very tempting... I didn't notice before how well the bike is spec for the price. I wonder if it will go down a bit more with the black friday sale RSD are advertising on their website? That might tip the scale in favor of the new bike.
> 
> ...


Only ridden mine with 29er 2.4 width. Bike is fast! I put a bigger front brake rotor on as I was having to brake earlier than my other trail bike...


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

BansheeRune said:


> . Lest names like Onyx and a few others are involved...


Onyx hub??


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

That MC complete totally lacks any bling, but for the sale price there is not much you can complain about in that build. I say that as someone who usually is appalled by lower cost build kits. You can't really even talk about the lack of a $624CAD hub in the context of a $2300-$2500CAD bike as a fault.

If your tastes run to Onyx hubs than I would just buy a frame and build from there accepting the cost will be a lot more than the complete costs, but your bike will be BLING.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

vikb said:


> That MC complete totally lacks any bling, but for the sale price there is not much you can complain about in that build. I say that as someone who usually is appalled by lower cost build kits. You can't really even talk about the lack of a $624CAD hub in the context of a $2300-$2500CAD bike as a fault.
> 
> If your tastes run to Onyx hubs than I would just buy a frame and build from there accepting the cost will be a lot more than the complete costs, but your bike will be BLING.


ahah my bad! I'm french speaking and just thought BansheeRune was implying the bike came with onyx hub, which I could not believe at that price point...

On my fat and Ripmo I run DT Swiss 350 so I'm more into bang for buck and fonction than bling


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

LewisQC said:


> Onyx hub??


Not a standard component... Was a reference to a one off build choice that one could go with instead of a complete bike however, that comes at a major increase in budget.

My Widlcat has a pair of Onyx hubs and they are very nice in how the engagement mechanism works. Unfortunately, they are absurd in price. The MC has Sarge's original wheelset cause they were available and well suited. I must say, blackout wheels are meh in appearance but the quality is there.

Appalling would be a far lesser quality component package than the OEM setup with RSD's line of bikes...

Many companies do not offer a package as nice as RSD has chosen at that price range. Hard to beat with the big names? Absolutely!


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

LewisQC said:


> ahah my bad! I'm french speaking and just thought BansheeRune was implying the bike came with onyx hub, which I could not believe at that price point...
> 
> On my fat and Ripmo I run DT Swiss 350 so I'm more into bang for buck and fonction than bling


We built my 12yo son's MC with I9 101 hubs laced to Stan's Flow ex3 rims and run 29x2.4 Continental Der Barons. We just shortened the chainstays as far as was practical for mud clearance yesterday, about 7mm to 423ish. The wheels were built by Cyclewheels USA for just under $600 US. He can fly down trails on a size medium.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

Stihlgoin said:


> We built my 12yo son's MC with I9 101 hubs laced to Stan's Flow ex3 rims and run 29x2.4 Continental Der Barons. We just shortened the chainstays as far as was practical for mud clearance yesterday, about 7mm to 423ish. The wheels were built by Cyclewheels USA for just under $600 US. He can fly down trails on a size medium.


A medium? How tall is he? My daughter is 5'4"-5'5". I was thinking buying a small frame... Your build is really cool. Really like the stealth frame that you can "pimp" with matching grips and pedals. I have two 29er wheelset for my Ripmo. Stock Ibis 738 and We Are One Insider carbon that will be fitted with Dissector 2.4 and Rekon 2.4 next season. I might sacrifice myself and put the carbon one one the middle child if the 27.5+ is too hefty.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My GF is 5'6" and on a small with a 50mm stem it fits her well. She could ride a medium with a 35mm stem, but it would be a lot of bike for her to throw around.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

He is 5’3”, lanky and strong. The bike is a bit much for him to manual, but wheelies, coaster wheelies, endos and side hops are no problem. We got a medium so his 5’8” dad could take the bike over when he outgrows it. A small would have worked, but only for a short while, meaning a year, and then dad would not get a new to him ride.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Stihlgoin said:


> He is 5'3", lanky and strong. The bike is a bit much for him to manual, but wheelies, coaster wheelies, endos and side hops are no problem. We got a medium so his 5'8" dad could take the bike over when he outgrows it. A small would have worked, but only for a short while, meaning a year, and then dad would not get a new to him ride.


Pfft! We see the move... This way, Stihlgoin's wife doesn't go postal on him when another bike appears!
Nicely played!! :cornut:

Vik, there's a lotta truth to the size thing. My Wildcat is a medium for that throw it around purrfection and Sarge and MC are large.
Both L's are plenty trialsy which is a baseline requirement.

Lewis, one thing to consider is growth. This could be a half season bike if your daughter has a growth spurt. Makes the choice difficult however, a stem change down the road is far less expensive than a frame swap.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

Lewis, if you pm me your email, I will send you a 10 sec. video of my son on the bike for visual reference.
Yeah, my 2014 Trek Stache is a bit cramped feeling after riding the MiddleChild. I am feeding the boy well and making sure he gets lots of rest to stimulate growth


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

Well... Looking at my wardrobe door where we mark our kids height once a year, they both gained between 2 and 3" the last three years... So since the bike won't be used until may or even June they should be as least 1 to 1.5" taller su 5'4" and 5'6". I think I might go with a medium

Edit... Medium are out of stock in every color....


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

The MC comes with a 50mm stem. You can easily go up to 80mm or 90mm and/or go wider on the bars to keep a kid on a particular size. Yes that's not ideal in terms of what a MTBR fan boi would do, but from a practical perspective it would not be a big deal.

Going the other way a 35mm stem and swept back bars like the SQ Labs 16 deg bars would make a bigger frame fit a lot smaller.

Another option buy a small complete on sale. Use it until it no longer fits. Then buy a used medium frame only, transfer parts and sell the small frame. You'd probably come out a wash in terms of expense if you kept the small in good shape.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

The small size cuts the reach down by 1&1/2 inches, and gives a shorter seat tube, so a dropper would fit better under a Child than a medium frame. Our son has his seat slid a bit forward as well, -too far for me, so I think a small would work. But this is just supposition. Your daughter may find it less unwieldy and your son would ride it like a boss. Best to consult Alex if you haven’t yet. He was very helpful to us. Steve from Hardtail Party has had his XCountry kids on his, so maybe he would know how they fit, too.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

vikb said:


> Another option buy a small complete on sale. Use it until it no longer fits. Then buy a used medium frame only, transfer parts and sell the small frame. You'd probably come out a wash in terms of expense if you kept the small in good shape.


That's my better option I think. My son is really progressing fast, learning to jump, hit berms full speed and riding tech (with his Trek X-Caliber XS, more xc than trail bike). We often ride by ourselves so he could use the MC as well.

Anyway, if I could get a medium, my son will outgrow his X-Cal small for 2021 season (it's already too small for my daughter at 5'4"). So I will need to buy a second bike anyway in a 2 years span one way or another


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

We got a front Mudhugger fender in for the GF's MC. She's been doing chill rides close to home to get the bike dialed and get used to it. Tomorrow is her first steep and techy ride on our main trail network. Should be good. The MC tires and geo are perfect for what we have to ride. She just needs to get used to not having any rear suspension. :thumbsup:


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## hardmtnbiker (Feb 22, 2005)

That’s a beautiful build!


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## hardmtnbiker (Feb 22, 2005)

hardtail party said:


> I'm selling my size small MC Ti frame (raw). More info on my instagram. Shoot me a PM or instagram message if you're in the market for an amazing frame with only 15 rides on it.
> 
> Why am I selling it? I picked up a size med, and I'll be riding the med this season.


I will be back in So Cal in January or February. You may have sold by then but if not I'll be hitting you up.


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

That Mudhugger front fender looks much better than the one you had before. I ordered the rear fender for my commuter for now. Do you think the front fender would mount ok on on the rear of the MC? I know some run these on the back as well.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

kryten said:


> That Mudhugger front fender looks much better than the one you had before. I ordered the rear fender for my commuter for now. Do you think the front fender would mount ok on on the rear of the MC? I know some run these on the back as well.


Sorry I have never tried that. Their rear fender works so well I wouldn't use anything else.


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## Big Slick (Aug 17, 2004)

I ended up getting one with their current sale and have taken it out a few times. Overall feels pretty good. Doesn't ride as heavy as I thought it would. 

The value on this bike is great. You would be hard pressed to find anything spec'd this well at this price point from any manufacturer, I looked at a few others before buying and nothing really came close. 

I considered building a hardtail frame and getting parts but that would have been way more. The only weak point I see is the wheels, probably not the lightest and for 2.8 tires I am not sure if I needed 50mm wide rims. I will probably run them until they start giving me problems. 

Would have preferred an XT crank and BB for a full XT drivetrain instead of RF.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I have to admit I was a bit nervous taking my GF out for her first real trail ride on the MC. I knew it was possible that she wouldn't enjoy riding a hardtail and she'd feel bad spending the $$ on one [the sweet sale price not withstanding].

My plan was to start on easy trails and just cruise around so that she could get used to it. As a bonus one of her lady friends who just got a hardtail [Surly Karate Monkey] came along so I rode ahead and let them hangout together working through the tech sections.

About 1/3rd of the way through the ride I realized they were both killing it and I suggested we start riding our normal routes with steeper harder tech. They were game. They did amazingly well.










By the end of the ride my GF proclaimed she loved the MC and it rode pretty similar to her GG Smash in terms of making her feel confident/comfortable. She also enjoyed the new skills/more active riding style the hardtail encouraged.

So I'd call that a win. :thumbsup:

Her only complaint was the dropper remote was hard for her to use compared to the "shifter" style one on her GG Smash. So I'll be ordering a new one up today.

She loved the 2.8" Minions and even asked if I could put them on her GG Smash! So who knows we may have to convert it to a GG Shred Dogg which can take 27+ rubber.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

And there's a Surly impersonating a MC in the second pic! 

Good stuff, Vik, she's hooked! 

Big Slack, there is nothing in it's class for that kinda coin and components... Gratz on the new bike...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

BansheeRune said:


> And there's a Surly impersonating a MC in the second pic!
> 
> Good stuff, Vik, she's hooked!
> 
> Big Slack, there is nothing in it's class for that kinda coin and components... Gratz on the new bike...


The MC is definitely a great deal. Too bad it's pretty much sold out in most sizes/colours. I could have probably made a few more sales to friends, but by the time they realized how rad it was the options were limited.

The Surly is no match for the MC in stock config. A lot heavier, more $$ and much steeper HTA. You can build up a sweet riding Karate Monkey a la carte for $$$, but the MC is better stock no doubt.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

vikb said:


> The MC is definitely a great deal. Too bad it's pretty much sold out in most sizes/colours. I could have probably made a few more sales to friends, but by the time they realized how rad it was the options were limited.
> 
> The Surly is no match for the MC in stock config. A lot heavier, more $$ and much steeper HTA. You can build up a sweet riding Karate Monkey a la carte for $$$, but the MC is better stock no doubt.


Not a thing bad to say of the Surly however, the MC is in a class of its own. Plenty of choices in build for either to suit a riding style but the MC is groovier!


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## Big Slick (Aug 17, 2004)

Vik 

The first upgrade I did on the bike was the dropper lever. I switched it out for a paddle style lever. This is my second KS Lev Integra post and I did the same with the first one I had, not sure why they insist on having such a weird cable system/lever. 

I think the full suspension is going to be taking a break for a few weeks while I explore the MC. I finally got most everything dialed in so it rides the way I like. Had another great ride on it today.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Big Slick said:


> Vik
> 
> The first upgrade I did on the bike was the dropper lever. I switched it out for a paddle style lever. This is my second KS Lev Integra post and I did the same with the first one I had, not sure why they insist on having such a weird cable system/lever.
> 
> I think the full suspension is going to be taking a break for a few weeks while I explore the MC. I finally got most everything dialed in so it rides the way I like. Had another great ride on it today.


I'm glad you are enjoying the MC. My GF made sure I ordered her a PNW lever this morning first thing. She's not usually all that fussed about the smaller details of a bike build so the fact she kept mentioning it means it's a real problem! 

I understand the need to save $$ to meet a low price point so it's not a big deal to replace that one part.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

big slick,

The MC will do that in the beginning.
I did that too but the Wildcat is like a magic carpet ride so didn't happen for too long.

Plenty trialsy, that MC is! I love rippin a pivot through the switchbacks. Full time fun, indeed!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

vikb said:


> A lot of sizes and colours are sold out already so don't leave it too long if the complete is of interest. I don't know how much deeper they can go on the sale given it's a lower cost bike to start with and it's selling well at the current discount rate.


RSD Black Friday sales are up on their website. I'm kinda happy to see that the MC didn't go any lower in price just so we didn't regret buying when we did. The FOMO would have been real.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

I pulled the trigger on a small complete build with dropper. I will receive the dropper in January cause 125mm are B-O. I'm looking forward to see my daughter on this bike but also my son and even my girlfriend. Looks like I'm the only one who won't ride it!! 

I will do some minor change to the build: wolf tooth lever. I might install my GX 165mm crankset on the MC (I have a spare 170mm Nx for my bike). And maybe some color matching grips and pedals

Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer to my questions. Louis


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

LewisQC said:


> I pulled the trigger on a small complete build with dropper. I will receive the dropper in January cause 125mm are B-O. I'm looking forward to see my daughter on this bike but also my son and even my girlfriend. Looks like I'm the only one who won't ride it!!
> 
> I will do some minor change to the build: wolf tooth lever. I might install my GX 165mm crankset on the MC (I have a spare 170mm Nx for my bike). And maybe some color matching grips and pedals
> 
> Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer to my questions. Louis


Congratz, Lewis! Have fun with building it up and hooking out the family...


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

LewisQC said:


> I pulled the trigger on a small complete build with dropper. I will receive the dropper in January cause 125mm are B-O. I'm looking forward to see my daughter on this bike but also my son and even my girlfriend. Looks like I'm the only one who won't ride it!!
> 
> I will do some minor change to the build: wolf tooth lever. I might install my GX 165mm crankset on the MC (I have a spare 170mm Nx for my bike). And maybe some color matching grips and pedals
> 
> Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer to my questions. Louis


Awesome! I hope your kids enjoy it as much as mine does his. His bike will have a dropper post as of 12/25


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

👍 congratulations!


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

so this was my first bike that I've 'built' even though it wasn't a totally complete build. RSD does make life easier with some things 'tailored' for the bike.

Still I learned alot and it was pretty fun to build something like that myself. On it's first maiden voyage it had no issues! Only thing I switched out is that I had an ENVE M7 carbon bar.

I still have to do some finishing touches on the indexing of the gears as they're a bit crunchy sometimes. And I have to still convert to tubeless.

In terms of the bike, the short rear end does make doing a wheelie or just picking up the front quite a bit easier than my old bike. The handling of the bike I didn't feel to be anything unusual, but I also haven't ridden in a few months since selling my old bike so I am still getting my legs back.

I'm still developing alot of my skills for riding, but felt like the steering was very stable and easy to point wherever I wanted it to go. I do feel that the steel frame feels alot more solid than my other aluminum hardtails I've had before. I didn't feel the weight of it in any negative way, so that's good.

The Fork felt great, I haven't played at all with the air setting and hardly played with the compression/rebound. But honestly, I never felt like it needed anything, it felt plush, smooth, and seamless. In the car world, they say that the best suspension is the one you forget is there because it just works. Perhaps it's the same case here, but I'd like to explore the tuning of it to see if there's a sweetspot that may be better, but I just haven't discovered yet.

I would say that while this is nothing related to the performance, it is by far the most beautiful mountain bike I've owned, and the prettiest hardtail I've seen in person, so there's an aesthetic enjoyment as well. I love looking down and seeing the skinny tubes, just reminds me of riding my GT BMX when I was a teenager.

Only negative that I noticed that the rear hub has a bit more delay on engagement feel than I'd prefer, but still is ok. At some point, I'll probably want to build a higher end set of rims at which point better hubs will be researched.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Beautiful build. I love the yellow color. Congrats on doing it yourself, there's a real sense of pride in building up your own bike.

I ended up upgrading my rear wheel, but not my front. My front wheel rarely goes out of true, and I can't tell the difference between a $30 front hub and a $300 front hub.

For faster engaging rear hubs, my two favorites are the Onyx Hub (zero take-up, true instant engagement, soft engaging, and 100% silent), and the I9 Hydra (pretty close to instant engagement, but it feels a little more notchy and is noisier.) The I9 is a lot lighter, but that onyx is a very special hub.

Congrats again, that's a beauty.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Drivera, now that you have your mitts on the bike, you're in for addiction!

Alex required this disclaimer...
The yellow is retina damage in a box labeled RSD Bikes. Use of a welding mask is required for safety reasons when unboxing a MiddleChild in yeller!!

Congratz! 

Onyx is of a unique breed as it uses a sprag as opposed to a ratchet. The sprag has an impact free engagement that is very close to zero lash. I have em on my Wildcat and love the hell outta the sweet, silent same day engagement. Trialsy, indeed...


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

Thank you and thanks for all the help and information you've provided on RSD. And to this thread that gave valuable feedback. Helps when you can't really get to see the bike in person or ride before you buy.

I'm sure I'm far from upgrading a wheel or wheel, seems like it can be an expensive step, but also a very rewarding one from a performance perspective. I'll start asking questions once I'm ready.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

drivera said:


> Thank you and thanks for all the help and information you've provided on RSD. And to this thread that gave valuable feedback. Helps when you can't really get to see the bike in person or ride before you buy.
> 
> I'm sure I'm far from upgrading a wheel or wheel, seems like it can be an expensive step, but also a very rewarding one from a performance perspective. I'll start asking questions once I'm ready.


No need to upgrade anything at this point. Ride, get to know the MC and have fun!

Frankly, I enjoy the MC with single speed at the moment. It's a BMX on steroids!!!








Sunspot getting ready for the flow trail.








Sunspot lurking...


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

I'm building our Middle Child and was wondering your experience with those U-shape plastic clips to fix cables on the frame? The look is good but not sure about long term durability vs a simple but proven tie-wrap...

The frame in black matte is gorgeous in real life. I did a partial wrap on downtube, seat-tube and fork legs. My wrap gives a shinny finish very similar to the MiddleChild name on the top tube tube so esthetically it's not that bad.

I'm waiting for a 30.9 seat post to serve as a backup for the BO KS Lev that should ship in january. Also I found some 165mm RF Atlas cranks.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

LewisQC said:


> I'm building our Middle Child and was wondering your experience with those U-shape plastic clips to fix cables on the frame? The look is good but not sure about long term durability vs a simple but proven tie-wrap....


They are fine. Worst case if you did lose them you could replace with zipties, but really your cables shouldn't be getting yanked on so much that those clips have to do a whole lot.

The nice thing is you can remove them and reinstall them as needed without creating more plastic waste as you would have to do with zipties.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

vikb said:


> They are fine. Worst case if you did lose them you could replace with zipties, but really your cables shouldn't be getting yanked on so much that those clips have to do a whole lot.
> 
> The nice thing is you can remove them and reinstall them as needed without creating more plastic waste as you would have to do with zipties.


I just used zip ties. I'm just not a fan of those clips. Probably from my car mechanic days, Audi must own a zip tie factory!


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

I like those clips most of the time. Only time I have found they do not work well is the first mount on the downtube or top tube when the cable comes off the handlebars. On the Middlechild the first clip for the dropper post would pop off. That's the only one I have used a zip tie for.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

LewisQC said:


> I'm building our Middle Child and was wondering your experience with those U-shape plastic clips to fix cables on the frame? The look is good but not sure about long term durability vs a simple but proven tie-wrap...
> 
> The frame in black matte is gorgeous in real life. I did a partial wrap on downtube, seat-tube and fork legs. My wrap gives a shinny finish very similar to the MiddleChild name on the top tube tube so esthetically it's not that bad.
> 
> I'm waiting for a 30.9 seat post to serve as a backup for the BO KS Lev that should ship in january. Also I found some 165mm RF Atlas cranks.


You're gonna be pleasantly surprised at the ride qualities in how the MC rides and even more so in how it handles regardless of terrain.

Atlas offers a nice array of colors as well as the compatibility with 30mm Cinch spindles. Makes it nice to be able to swap the arms and spindle for different BB widths. Going to a modular system has been a good choice by RF.

Those little cable clips... The tend to work well for the most part. If cables are a little short, the clips at the front of the bike may pop off but that is preventable. What I do is buy zips in colors so I can do pseudo bling on the cheap.

Pfft! since it's a mud hole around here as of late, my MC is going to street session and get some pedal time today.
I may have to keep an epi pen handy cause the little bastage is allergic to pavement!

Wait a minute, where's the photos, Lewis??


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

BansheeRune said:


> You're gonna be pleasantly surprised at the ride qualities in how the MC rides and even more so in how it handles regardless of terrain.
> 
> Atlas offers a nice array of colors as well as the compatibility with 30mm Cinch spindles. Makes it nice to be able to swap the arms and spindle for different BB widths. Going to a modular system has been a good choice by RF.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure I will be able to experience "the ride quality" being 6'2"... I really had no problem in 4 years with my RF Turbine fat cranks. So when I found 165 Atlas it was a no brainer (already having BB and Chainring also). No special color for my Atlas (black) and we still have to choose a matching grip/pedal combo (probably Chester or Ride pedal with matching grips). As for pictures, the bike is half-built due to missing parts but if you ask!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Progress pix! YAY!!!! Murdered out, lookin good!!

I stayed in the line of Cinch for the interchangeability between DM rings and BB spindles. Atlas, Turbine... Gotsta love that ability to swap parts as needed.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

Finally received our new 165mm Atlas cranks. It's strange cause it was too tight with the 2 small (1mm) spacers that were there when I removed the Turbine crankset (already sold so no loss except a 60g penalty). I did use only one on the drive side to get a perfect chainline of 52mm. I watched RF videos about cinch system and they don't talk about those spacers... Anyway, the bike is awesome and only problem I had while building it was lack of a master link with the chain. Probably a simple oversight.

I have my Oneup pedals on for now cause we're not set on a color for grips and pedals...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Looks good, Lewis! 

Really going to be a good time for your family to get out on bikes.
Now you need one for yourself...


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

I have my Oneup pedals on for now cause we're not set on a color for grips and pedals.

Don't forget the matching crank boot protectors


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

A few more tweaks to the GF's MC. The bike is pretty much dialed to perfection. :thumbsup:










Swapped in an ergonomically pleasing PNW Loam Lever with teal traction pad of course. 










Pink RF Chester pedals, blue cage and pink bottle for matchy matchy stoke. 

Rogue Panda tool roll because we are allergic to carrying a pack or fanny bag on rides. :nono:










After this weekend we'll cut the steerer which is the last thing left to do on this fine ride.


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## California_Dave (May 30, 2013)

Thought I'd share a photo from Red Canyon....


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Damn, Dave!! I haven't played in the Red Rock Canyon area in 30+ years. Thanks for bringing back the memories!

Great MC habitat out there and throughout the Mojave for that matter.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Thunder mtn?


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

hardtail party said:


> I'm selling my size small MC Ti frame (raw). More info on my instagram. Shoot me a PM or instagram message if you're in the market for an amazing frame with only 15 rides on it.
> 
> Why am I selling it? I picked up a size med, and I'll be riding the med this season.


Is this gone?


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Still available. Shoot me a PM if you have any questions.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Hi All: Well I may be caving to the “N+1” temptation and dropping $250 on the pre-order RSD offering. I sent an email to Alex at RSD but wanted to get some perspective from those on the forum. So I copied what I assume are the relevant details.

Would love your thoughts. As an aside, I plan on keeping the Instigator (Based on Hardtail’s perspectives)- it really is set-up as the cross country ride that my local ride requires- bringing the MC there seems like bringing a bazooka to a debate between Baby Yoda and Baby Groot. 

———email———

Here is my question- sizing.

I am 5’7”+ ish- Meaning I used to be 5’8” and well as I get deeper into my 40’s I am evidently shrinking. Also I have a 28.5” inseam using the bare-feet-to-book-crotch-straddle-method- My pant inseam is 30”

I currently ride a Surly Instigator 2.0 and to be fair I really like the bike. I have it set-up as a cross country ride. I live in NJ and I have everything from super-flow trails and chunky trails all within a ~1 hour drive.

In 2014 I purchased the frame sized small to be able to throw the bike around and at the same time, avoid the super-short stem crusade of which I wasn’t a fan because I thought (at the time) it would limit my climbing efficiency. 

That being said, I pulled the following numbers together (consider this back of the napkin math) to consider which size MC would be best.

Surly Numbers
Effective top tube: 580mm
Seatpost setback: 25mm (saddle rails are right in the middle so you could argue 12.5mm)
Stem: 75mm
Grand Total: ~667mm as a reference
This may be old school- but the tip of my saddle to the center of my stem is the same length as my elbow to tip of my middle finger- back in the day I was told this was the best way to determine what can probably be argued as “reach” which is 18.5”

When looking at the Middle Child numbers this is what I came up with:
Effective Top Tube: 625mm
Stock Stem: 50mm
Grand Total: 675mm

Not taking into account bar width (the MC’s bars are wider) and the fact that my measurement logic is highly suspect. I am currently leaning towards the medium-sized Middle Child.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks so much!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

NJ Gator said:


> What are your thoughts?


You can drop to a 35mm length stem if needed gaining you 15mm less distance to bars. You could also use bars with more backsweep if necessary. So Ya I would go medium if I was you.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

NJ Gator said:


> Hi All: Well I may be caving to the "N+1" temptation and dropping $250 on the pre-order RSD offering. I sent an email to Alex at RSD but wanted to get some perspective from those on the forum. So I copied what I assume are the relevant details.
> 
> Would love your thoughts. As an aside, I plan on keeping the Instigator (Based on Hardtail's perspectives)- it really is set-up as the cross country ride that my local ride requires- bringing the MC there seems like bringing a bazooka to a debate between Baby Yoda and Baby Groot.
> 
> ...


Medium sounds right. Wider bars can always be trimmed to fine tune things.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

You sound about my proportions. You'll be able to run a longer dropper on the size small, but the size med will have a longer reach.

If you ridenwith a more "modern" riding position and lean forward and attack steep downhills, I recommend the medium. If you tend to get your butt behind the seat and straighten your armarms more on steep downhills, I think the small will be better as it will give you more room to get back.

For my riding style, I prefer the medium.

Reach is measured slightly different than the tip of your saddle to stem. Reach is really only measured/acxurste when you're standing on the pedals.

If possible, I'd try to find a size small, medium, and large chameleon to rest ride to see which size you prefer. the rsd small feels almost identical to small chameleon wheb you ride it (fit-wise). a medium middle childn is slightly larger than a medium chameleon.

I ran a 32mm stem on my med mc initially, but I dont like the way bikes handle with such a short stemand now im on a 50mm eith my seat slid all the way forward.

I ride 760mm bars


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I took the middle child on the whole enchilada a month back. I really wished I had my 3.0s for that ride. In this video I was on 2.6 dhr2s on nox kitsuma carbon wheels.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

hardtail party said:


> I took the middle child on the whole enchilada a month back. I really wished I had my 3.0s for that ride. In this video I was on 2.6 dhr2s on nox kitsuma carbon wheels.
> 
> [video]:
> 
> ...


Which 3.0 tires are you running? I'm thinking of switching up my singlespeed 29er setup to 27+ and go back and forth.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

It really depends on your terrain. I run a hr2 up front, but it's very draggy and heavy for flat terrain. But it's great in the big rocks like moab and sedona.

Out back I like the wtb ranger and specialized ground control for fast rolling trails. For aggressive trails i like a dhr2 2.8 out back.

For more dirt than rock, I'm starting to love the schwalbe nobby nics. Super light, fast accelerating, and a nice smooth ride.

I'd love to try and ikon+ front and rear, I think it would be awesome for fast trails.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

If you ridenwith a more "modern" riding position and lean forward and attack steep downhills, I recommend the medium. If you tend to get your butt behind the seat and straighten your armarms more on steep downhills, I think the small will be better as it will give you more room to get back.


If possible, I'd try to find a size small, medium, and large chameleon to rest ride to see which size you prefer. the rsd small feels almost identical to small chameleon wheb you ride it (fit-wise). a medium middle childn is slightly larger than a medium chameleon.
———-
I Tend to lean back and low- the dropper on my gator has been great for that.

I still tend to feel that a really short stem could affect climbing although that seems to have largely de-bunked. I would like to stay in the 40/50mm range.

I am torn- as My experience with small frameS allows me to track stand and ratchet in tight situations and I am able to nudge the bike with body English. Won’t say I cant with a larger frame just dont have the experience to know how it will be on the trail. I believe you are buddies with the Trail Boss- I have only met him a few times but he taught me to track stand In the parking lot of the local trail system (Like 10 years ago) and As a result I Tend to ride slower through technical terrain than plowing over it.

I did hear from Alex- his recommendation is the medium- but you do bring up some good points to consider- the good news is I dont think I can go “wrong” With either the small or the medium but what will feel better from the get-go.

Decisions. Decisions.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

hardtail party said:


> It really depends on your terrain. I run a hr2 up front, but it's very draggy and heavy for flat terrain. But it's great in the big rocks like moab and sedona.
> 
> Out back I like the wtb ranger and specialized ground control for fast rolling trails. For aggressive trails i like a dhr2 2.8 out back.
> 
> ...


New England, lots of smaller sharp rocks, roots and of course drops to flat. Casing strength and traction much more important than weight or rolling resistance. 2 little kids means my rides are usually 2 hours.

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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

yzedf said:


> New England, lots of smaller sharp rocks, roots and of course drops to flat. Casing strength and traction much more important than weight or rolling resistance. 2 little kids means my rides are usually 2 hours.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I ride HR2's and love that tire- I am in NJ with similar terrain. This will be my tire of choice on the MC- probably 2.6's to start


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

NJ Gator said:


> I am torn- as My experience with small frameS allows me to track stand and ratchet in tight situations and I am able to nudge the bike with body English. Won't say I cant with a larger frame just dont have the experience to know how it will be on the trail. I believe you are buddies with the Trail Boss- I have only met him a few times but he taught me to track stand In the parking lot of the local trail system (Like 10 years ago) and As a result I Tend to ride slower through technical terrain than plowing over it.
> 
> I did hear from Alex- his recommendation is the medium- but you do bring up some good points to consider- the good news is I dont think I can go "wrong" With either the small or the medium but what will feel better from the get-go.
> 
> Decisions. Decisions.


I'd recommend a medium. You'll get used to it and adopt a more aggressive riding position. You'll still be able to track stand, wheelie, and hop around no problem. And when the trail gets steep, you'll have more stability. This bike is extremely playful at slow speeds.

I was chatting with Jeff (trail boss) about bike reach measurements. He was on a bike that was longer than he liked, and he said it made it tougher to bunnyhop and get up big 3' ledges. Granted, none of us can bunnyhop like him, so what works for him may not be best for us. Also, jeff doesn't usually ride his hardtail for big chunky trails. He rides his full suspension squeeb for that, which has more of a trail/enduro geometry.

If you want a bike for strictly trials, I'd size down to a small. For trail and all-around riding, i like the medium.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

NJ Gator said:


> I ride HR2's and love that tire- I am in NJ with similar terrain. This will be my tire of choice on the MC- probably 2.6's to start


Thanks!

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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> He was on a bike that was longer than he liked, and he said it made it tougher to bunnyhop and get up big 3' ledges. Granted, none of us can bunnyhop like him, so what works for him may not be best for us.
> If you want a bike for strictly trials, I'd size down to a small. For trail and all-around riding, i like the medium.


Frankly, my bunny hop is nothing like my sidehop. 
I absolutely enjoy the MC in large for my build and getting properly into TGS on the trails.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I can bunnyhop noticeably higher on my small than my med, but I can still get up there with my medium.

I wish I had the funds to build my small mc into a 26" dj/pump track/skatepark bike with a 100mm fork. That would be so much fun.

How tall are you @BansheeRune?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

For Boxing Day we headed out into the forest for a rip on the hardtails. Sorry my phone camera struggled a bit with the crazy low light conditions. It felt like dusk even though it was 11am! :eekster:










There were some steep creek crossings to carry the bikes through.










Downed trees to lift bikes over.










She's having a blast on the MC both learning the changes to her tech skills needed for riding a hardtail and how to get confident at speed on the bike. She got a ladies #7 place Strava leaderboard spot on an extended 4km DH section and she wasn't giving it her all. So the MC is plenty fast. :thumbsup:










My phone artificially increased the brightness in the rest of the photos automatically, but this ^^^ is a more realistic idea of what the light levels actually were like. I kept expecting to run into an angry Tree Ent! 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone reading this fine thread.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> I can bunnyhop noticeably higher on my small than my med, but I can still get up there with my medium.
> 
> I wish I had the funds to build my small mc into a 26" dj/pump track/skatepark bike with a 100mm fork. That would be so much fun.
> 
> How tall are you @BansheeRune?


I can see the allure of a park bike. They have the spirit of play time ingrained.

I'm 6' with a reason for the callouses on my knuckles! When it comes to observed trials style riding, a side hop is an amazing elevation changer. The side hop feels nearly effortless for the gain however is not done at speed but done from the rear wheel to a rear wheel landing and sometimes involves sticking to the front and a wheel swap. My bunny hops are marginal these days. Ugh!

Vik, Mrs. Vik has a devious smile going on there! Looks like a good time being had.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

FWIW - we had our first MC related mechanical issue. The KS Lev dropper retains the end of the remote cable at the seatpost end with a tiny 2mm grub screw. This failed and released the cable which left the dropper inoperable. The end that was clamped always frays so you can't reinstall it in the field. Luckily this happened on the way down the mountain and the dropper was in the low position so my GF just rode it to the car like that.

Not a RSD issue and not a big deal in the big picture, but it could be highly inconvenient in the middle of a long ride with lots of climbing and descending.

Since she is now using an aftermarket remote we were able to route the cable so the swagged end of the cable is at the seat post end so it no longer relies on that 2mm grub screw to retain the cable at all. This eliminates this particular failure mode.

I figured I'd mention it in case it saves anyone else some future hassle.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

vikb said:


> FWIW - we had our first MC related mechanical issue. The KS Lev dropper retains the end of the remote cable at the seatpost end with a tiny 2mm grub screw. This failed and released the cable which left the dropper inoperable. The end that was clamped always frays so you can't reinstall it in the field. Luckily this happened on the way down the mountain and the dropper was in the low position so my GF just rode it to the car like that.
> 
> Not a RSD issue and not a big deal in the big picture, but it could be highly inconvenient in the middle of a long ride with lots of climbing and descending.
> 
> ...


I hope ks is better with servicing their posts. When I had a lev 27.2 it took them all summer of 2016 to get it back to me...

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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

Double post. Went for just over 16 miles on the Middlechild singlespeed today, my quads are feeling it!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

vikb said:


> FWIW - we had our first MC related mechanical issue. The KS Lev dropper retains the end of the remote cable at the seatpost end with a tiny 2mm grub screw. This failed and released the cable which left the dropper inoperable. The end that was clamped always frays so you can't reinstall it in the field. Luckily this happened on the way down the mountain and the dropper was in the low position so my GF just rode it to the car like that.
> 
> Not a RSD issue and not a big deal in the big picture, but it could be highly inconvenient in the middle of a long ride with lots of climbing and descending.
> 
> ...


Solder the 4-5mm at the end of the cable. That keeps the cable intact and keeps it nice and neat in there!

All cable ends should be treated this way for cleanliness if nothing else. 
Fortunately, Sunspot is a one speed automatic and has no cables!



yzedf said:


> Double post. Went for just over 16 miles on the Middlechild singlespeed today, my quads are feeling it!


That is a common side effect of a one speed automatic! They just rip so freakin well tho' it's more than worth the price.

Short gears are on the MC lately for snow trail BMX that is goin on lately. A pair of Nobby Nic 3.0's with low pressure and away we go! It's a good time out there rippin a singletrack loop that we pack down. Good times, indeed. Besides, cannot leave the MC out of the ride times over a little snow when dropping tire pressure a few psi takes care of it.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

vikb said:


> FWIW - we had our first MC related mechanical issue. The KS Lev dropper retains the end of the remote cable at the seatpost end with a tiny 2mm grub screw. This failed and released the cable which left the dropper inoperable. The end that was clamped always frays so you can't reinstall it in the field. Luckily this happened on the way down the mountain and the dropper was in the low position so my GF just rode it to the car like that.
> 
> Not a RSD issue and not a big deal in the big picture, but it could be highly inconvenient in the middle of a long ride with lots of climbing and descending.
> 
> ...


trying to imagine how you mounted the cable on the seat post side by reversing it.

As an additional comment, my KS Lev with a few rides has a funny bit of play in it and it's the seat post itself (when in the high position) seems to have like the smallest bit of millmeter or two play. It's kind of annoying and given it's really really new, I wouldn't expect such an issue so early.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

drivera said:


> trying to imagine how you mounted the cable on the seat post side by reversing it.












Sorry. Not the best photos, but figured this might help explain things. In the stock setup the swagged end of the cable [where that small "head" is] sits at the bar and at the dropper the silver barrel holds the cut end of the cable with a small 2mm grub screw. The problem we had was that screw is hard to tighten without damaging it and if it looses tension even a bit the cable lets go and you have to try and deal with it trail side if you want a proper repair. #NotMuchFun :eekster::nono:









With most aftermarket remote levers [PNW Loam Lever shown] you can clamp the cut end of the cable at the bar. If that clamp bolt were to loosen it's very easy to re-position the cable and tighten on the trail. That also means you can put the swagged end of the cable at the dropper end of the system and that way the 2mm grub screw is irrelevant as the swagged end of the cable can't physically pass through the hole in the barrel. The issue is that the KS was not designed to be setup this way so you have to "fight" with it to get the barrel with the swagged end of the cable inserted and it sits funny. But, so far it's working well and as I said previously this totally eliminates the potential for the dropper failure we experienced so it's worth the hassle. :thumbsup:


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

vikb said:


> Sorry. Not the best photos, but figured this might help explain things. In the stock setup the swagged end of the cable [where that small "head" is] sits at the bar and at the dropper the silver barrel holds the cut end of the cable with a small 2mm grub screw. The problem we had was that screw is hard to tighten without damaging it and if it looses tension even a bit the cable lets go and you have to try and deal with it trail side if you want a proper repair. #NotMuchFun :eekster::nono:
> 
> View attachment 1301899
> 
> ...


You could file the swagged end (by hand) to help it sit better.

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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

yzedf said:


> You could file the swagged end (by hand) to help it sit better.


Since this is working and I am lazy I'm not going to mess with it, but yes you could try and lower the height of the swagged end. Given this actuator is buried deep in the seat tube and I [hopefully] don't need to look at it again for a year I don't care too much about it beyond how the dropper works.

My main concern was that the swagged end would push down the dropper actuator enough that the post wouldn't stay down, but this is not the case.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

Bummed me out to find this today while hunting for a creak










I had never pulled the dropout out before. Explains while the axle position adjustment seemed more difficult than it should be.

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## 9GUY9 (Jul 14, 2007)

yzedf said:


> Bummed me out to find this today while hunting for a creak
> 
> I had never pulled the dropout out before. Explains while the axle position adjustment seemed more difficult than it should be.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am not seeing anything apparently wrong. What is of concern?


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

9GUY9 said:


> I am not seeing anything apparently wrong. What is of concern?


Rusty dropout slot. Picture below shows buildup of the rust on nds assembly.










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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

A common problem when a little slick honey was omitted... yzedf, you have a minor rust haze on the dropout, but in the pic of the frame, there is little to none! Swab the interior of the frame dropout with grease (Sparingly) and put it together. Try to keep the grease off the face of the frame dropout tho'. Nothing is more annoying than a slipping slider. Also, follow the torque specification for the slider bolts since they can round out in the hex and be a pain to deal with.

I have not seen any rust on my bike even after getting caught in a cloudburst. I did plug all those holes with ultra grey to prevent moisture getting in for that unseen corrosion possibility. 

The frames are treated with rust inhibitors at the factory, but my trust in that treatment is resolved with an ounce of prevention that should deliver a pound of cure.

Vik, good solution on the dropper issue however, solder the lever end of the cable... Doing that will prevent a stray wire from becoming a hypodermic needle and makin Mrs. Vik not so happy on the trail!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

BansheeRune said:


> Vik, good solution on the dropper issue however, solder the lever end of the cable... Doing that will prevent a stray wire from becoming a hypodermic needle and makin Mrs. Vik not so happy on the trail!


The cut end of the cable at the lever is crimped with a cap and due to how the cable is retained it does not fray like it would at the dropper end. So there is no risk of injuring the GF. I've been running dropper setups like that for years without dealing with soldering cables.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

BansheeRune said:


> A common problem when a little slick honey was omitted... yzedf, you have a minor rust haze on the dropout, but in the pic of the frame, there is little to none! Swab the interior of the frame dropout with grease (Sparingly) and put it together. Try to keep the grease off the face of the frame dropout tho'. Nothing is more annoying than a slipping slider. Also, follow the torque specification for the slider bolts since they can round out in the hex and be a pain to deal with.
> 
> I have not seen any rust on my bike even after getting caught in a cloudburst. I did plug all those holes with ultra grey to prevent moisture getting in for that unseen corrosion possibility.
> 
> ...


The slot in the nds dropout for the slider wasn't made properly, it was too small. In order to install the slider someone remove the paint and jammed it in. I filed it down, sanded, primed and painted it. Light coat of marine grease and reinstall was fine. Just a shame that qc missed such an obvious problem and my fault for assuming everything was good.

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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

yzedf said:


> Just a shame that qc missed such an obvious problem and my fault for assuming everything was good.


You can't expect value pricing *and* high end QC. My GF's MC had a minor quality defect. In the dropout area. Given the cost that's not something that bothers us.

In terms of getting PC in the slider area you can't precisely account for the thickness of the finish. So having to do some "adjustments" to get the sliders to fit seems pretty normal. Your issue wouldn't bum me. It's quite possible my GF's MC looks the same in that area.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

yzedf said:


> The slot in the nds dropout for the slider wasn't made properly, it was too small. In order to install the slider someone remove the paint and jammed it in. I filed it down, sanded, primed and painted it. Light coat of marine grease and reinstall was fine. Just a shame that qc missed such an obvious problem and my fault for assuming everything was good.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When the frame was made, the sliders are a proper fit without consideration of paint or powdercoat buildup in the slot. Frankly, the slot and faces of the slot should be free of finishing materials. It is not a defect but a byproduct of production.
Facing head tubes and BB's is on the bike shop or builder for production rigs.

Honestly, when I received my frame, I should have cleared the finish from the slots before causing chipping and flaking to occur.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

vikb said:


> You can't expect discount pricing *and* high end QC. My GF's MC had a minor quality defect. In the dropout area. Given the cost that's not something that bothers us.
> 
> In terms of getting PC in the slider area you can't precisely account for the thickness of the finish. So having to do some "adjustments" to get the sliders to fit seems pretty normal. Your issue wouldn't bum me. It's quite possible my GF's MC looks the same in that area.


Discount pricing? The frame was $50 less than a Santa Cruz Chameleon frame, not exactly a budget price in my opinion. Given the hands on experience from Alex when I ordered the frame (he was in Cali and gave me his contact info and let me know it would be a few extra days to ship it out) I guess I thought qc would be along the same lines. At the end of the day I don't care, but people should know of potential problems to look for. If I had noticed this when I first got the frame I would've asked for a replacement. Now, no it's a fix it and move on.

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## RSD Bikes (Sep 18, 2009)

vikb said:


> You can't expect discount pricing *and* high end QC. My GF's MC had a minor quality defect. In the dropout area. Given the cost that's not something that bothers us.


Hi Vikb, the issue you had was not a quality defect nor a lack of QC'ing, it was probably a damage caused in transit. Also, the reason for the "discount" wasn't because the frame had/have issues, but rather because some of the components would become slightly "outdated" (by industry standard). In fact, as you probably noticed, all of the frames never went on sale. Only the complete bikes. For 2020, frames are identical. Only the build is changing



yzedf said:


> The slot in the nds dropout for the slider wasn't made properly, it was too small.


Every frame is QC'd at multiple stages, from the factory to the painting and from our office to the customers. Sliders are installed at the factory after painting. I guess someone was asleep at the wheel and missed the excess paint inside the drop-out. Oops.. Either way, even if you sanded off, it's fine. All of our frames are ED Coated prior to painting, so both the inside and outside of the frames are treated for rust

Happy New Year Everyone.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

BansheeRune said:


> When the frame was made, the sliders are a proper fit without consideration of paint or powdercoat buildup in the slot. Frankly, the slot and faces of the slot should be free of finishing materials. It is not a defect but a byproduct of production.
> Facing head tubes and BB's is on the bike shop or builder for production rigs.
> 
> Honestly, when I received my frame, I should have cleared the finish from the slots before causing chipping and flaking to occur.


Using your theory, the drive side slot is too big. Pick your poison. They don't match, they should, it's a 5 second test with a go/no-go gauge. Like I said earlier, I fixed it and I'm just letting people know what to look for.

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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

RSD Bikes said:


> Every frame is QC'd at multiple stages, from the factory to the painting and from our office to the customers. Sliders are installed at the factory after painting. I guess someone was asleep at the wheel and missed the excess paint inside the drop-out. Oops.. Either way, even if you sanded off, it's fine. All of our frames are ED Coated prior to painting, so both the inside and outside of the frames are treated for rust
> 
> Happy New Year Everyone.


The slider was a tight fit without paint and it has worn through the ED coating. Cool to see you follow the forums, hopefully my frame was a one off experience.

Happy New Year!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

yzedf said:


> Discount pricing? The frame was $50 less than a Santa Cruz Chameleon frame, not exactly a budget price in my opinion.


Comparing the AL MC to the AL Chameleon it's $599 to $750USD. $151 difference at that price point is huge. In particular at the relative volumes we are talking about.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

RSD Bikes said:


> In fact, as you probably noticed, all of the frames never went on sale.


Hi Alex. Let me replace _*discount*_ with *value priced* to be more accurate regarding the situation. I mean neither term in a negative way. I work in manufacturing so I appreciate the trade offs that occur to meet a particular price point.


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## RSD Bikes (Sep 18, 2009)

vikb said:


> Hi Alex. Let me replace _*discount*_ with *value priced* to be more accurate regarding the situation. I mean neither term in a negative way. I work in manufacturing so I appreciate the trade offs that occur to meet a particular price point.


No worries, it wasn't taken in a negative way. just wanted to clarify. In this case, i can say with confidence that the difference in price isn't manufacturing quality. In fact, all of our frames are handmade with sliding drop-outs and a custom yoke, which cost more. We also definitely produce way less frames. The major difference might be our overhead. We're a very small young company.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

I just placed a pre-order for an orange medium!!!! 

Thanks all for your feedback this week on the MC’s!!!!

Gonna be a great 2020 season!!!! 

Happy New Year!!!!


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

NJ Gator said:


> I just placed a pre-order for an orange medium!!!!
> 
> Thanks all for your feedback this week on the MC's!!!!
> 
> ...


It's an awesome bike, enjoy!

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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

vikb said:


> Comparing the AL MC to the AL Chameleon it's $599 to $750USD. $151 difference at that price point is huge. In particular at the relative volumes we are talking about.


But the geometry is not the same and BB drop is absurd on the SC.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

BansheeRune said:


> But the geometry is not the same and BB drop is absurd on the SC.


We are not talking about the geo.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

vikb said:


> We are not talking about the geo.


Might not be but that is a key consideration to comparing apples and oranges. 
When I look at the picture, I see a difference on many fronts in terms of comparing RSD to a larger company.
Overhead of the larger operation dictates pricing as does other factors of large vs. small business.

So, yeah, there might be a dry comment from time to time. Hell, Monte Python was king of dry...


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)




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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

beautiful pictures of it out in the snow! Greetings from Suwanee with my high-viz MC. Still riding great, just the rider that needs improving!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

drivera said:


> beautiful pictures of it out in the snow! Greetings from Suwanee with my high-viz MC. Still riding great, just the rider that needs improving!


Excellent pic, drivera! 
With time spent with your bike, you'll do just fine. It takes time, practice and a sweet ride like the MC.
I relish every ride as you are prolly doing too...


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## chowdapilot (May 30, 2005)

Very tempted to pick up a closeout MC in size XL. Bummed there is no 29er option but can add some 29er wheels next year. That said, what size would be best for a 6’ 1.5” rider? 


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm 6' and ride a large. 
The next release will be offered in a 27.5 or 29 option.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

With no small degree of apprehension, we installed a 150 mm OneUp V1 dropper on the boy’s (cough-mine someday) medium MC. I got a smoking good deal on it with their remote (thanks to a Paul the Punter discount code), so it became a Christmas present. Despite mixed reviews, it works well (with shims) and seems simple to work on. I was able to take some material off the rubber dropper routing plug, grease it with Slickoleum and have the housing move perfectly fine for operation, while still keeping junk out of the seat tube. Anyhow, just an FYI post. No long term report obviously, but for barely more than the cheapest of droppers, it seemed a no brainer. We have a lifetime supply of Slickoleum, so hopefully we’re set.


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## Big Slick (Aug 17, 2004)

chowdapilot said:


> Very tempted to pick up a closeout MC in size XL. Bummed there is no 29er option but can add some 29er wheels next year. That said, what size would be best for a 6' 1.5" rider?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am about 6' to 6' 1". I usually ride Large in most brands and I fall right in the high side of a large for the MC. I ended up getting the XL and I love it!!! I was kind of stuck with this option since they didn't have L. If they had L I probably would have played it safe and gotten the L. The only issue you may run into is your pedaling height with the seat. I have the seatpost slammed and it is a perfect height with the 150mm post. The reach is quite longer than what I am used to but after a few rides I dig it. The only thing I may consider down the road is a bit shorter stem but for now it is good. I found stack height to be low so I do have max spacers under the stem.

As for the 29 wheels, I heard this was optimized for 27.5 plus. A few people have said it just doesn't ride as fun with 29 wheels. My other bike is a 29er full suspension and honestly I can't say I wish this was 29. I like the extra cush and grip of the plus size tires.

It is very stable descending because of the reach and HT angle and I feel like I do give up a little in nimbleness, not as easy to toss around, but could be just getting used to the bike in general.

I came from riding a 2018 Honzo CR DL which was a fun bike in it's own right but wasn't fun enough for me to hang on to it.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Big Slick said:


> As for the 29 wheels, I heard this was optimized for 27.5 plus. A few people have said it just doesn't ride as fun with 29 wheels.


You might prefer 27+ to 29er wheel/tire on the MC, but there is nothing about the geo that's going to make 27+ great and 29er meh.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

My mc rides great with both. Mine is in 29er mode right now and I'm haveing a blast on it with the 29s.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

What hardtail party said!

My MC is a singlespeed and on 27.5 x 3.0's for the ability to be set for the terrain, rowdy riding, flow trail rail etc. It gets down to a couple PSI adjustments and it's on.
As soon as I'm past the illness, I'll be railing the local trails that are being groomed and prepped for snow BMX. 

The best part of the MC, build it out the way ya wanna, change it up in minutes with a few parts, tire, wheel changes etc. Flavor of the day can change in short order and lend to some damn nice versatility.


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## Dirttrackin280h (Aug 10, 2008)

Just finished building up one of the last 2019 MC frames. 
Full build list below:

Frame size XL

29" Stans Flow MK3/ Hope Pro 4 Hubs

Maxxis Minion DHRII 2.4WT Rear Tire

Maxxis Minion DHF 2.5WT Front Tire

2019 Fox 36 Fit4 / 140mm travel

Renthal Apex 50mm Stem

Renthal Fatbar 35 / 20mm rise Handlebar

Renthal Kevlar Grips

Shimano XT M785 Brakes (soon to be upgraded to Zees)

Shimano 203mm/180mm Ice-Tech Rotors

Raceface Turbine Cinch Crank w/ 32t ring

Shimano XT M785 Clipless Pedals

Sunrace CSMX8 11-46t, 11spd Cassette

SRAM PC-1110 Chain

Shimano XT M8000 11spd Derailleur

Shimano XT M8000 Trigger Shifter

Gamut P40 Chain Guide

Oneup V2 Dropper Post / 210mm

Wolf Tooth REMOTE Dropper Lever

Ergon SME Carbon Saddle

Frame weight w/ headset cups installed weighs 7.33lbs

Total build weighs 32.75lbs.

First impressions - the frame quality feels and looks very good. There were no imperfections to the paint or to the frame which is always a plus to see when a frame arrives. Welds look really good. Overall, VERY happy and excited with the purchase of this frameset.

I am tall @ 6'5", so I was a little worried the stack height on this frame would be too short. I am running 35mm of spacers under stem to achieve a good saddle to handlebar height. I have yet to ride the bike in the dirt, have only cruised the streets of the neighborhood, but I can tell the overall feel of the bike feels really nice. What I do love about this frame, is the low standover height, love love love this! Always being on a size XL frame, standover is most always really high with most frames, but the MC changes that for me. I can drop the saddle really low, especially with the 210mm dropper. Thus, will allow me to get low behind the saddle and to be able to throw the bike around a lot easier on rowdy terrain. This was a HUGE plus for me. It will be nice because I can take this bike to the dirt jumps as well as the trails. Very versatile bike, for sure! Tire clearance is also really good on this frame. Plenty of room with a 29" Maxxis 2.4WT tire, and still allows me to move the wheel up in the chainstay if I wanted.

Just for fun, I removed that huge boat anchor of a head badge and replaced it with a gloss black decal. Sorry Alex @ RSD, I can't say I'm a fan of the logo, not the best design IMO, so I had to tone it down a bit with more of a stealth look. But hey, the frame design is what really matters, right?! For some small detail, I inlayed some orange decals in the RSD stamp on the rear chainstays. Then applied 3M-7461 Shower Tread over the top of it as well as all over the inside of the chainstay in the high wear areas. Applied it on the underside of the down tube, too. Made my own chainstay protector out of 3M-2228 Mastic Tape. This stuff is really nice, check it out.

Really excited to take this bad girl out. It's going to be a nice addition to my full squish. Nice to change things up a bit.

2020-01-13 15.08.03 by Mike S, on Flickr

2020-01-13 15.12.01 by Mike S, on Flickr

2020-01-13 15.08.42 by Mike S, on Flickr

2020-01-13 15.10.08 by Mike S, on Flickr

2020-01-13 15.16.20 by Mike S, on Flickr

2020-01-13 14.49.26 by Mike S, on Flickr

2020-01-13 15.13.58 by Mike S, on Flickr


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Welcome to the MC club, Dirt! Looks the part, indeed. Nice selection on the build kit. 

With a few good rides, you'll be groovin.


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## Dirttrackin280h (Aug 10, 2008)

Bad pic - But this bike is fuggin bad! Totally diggin the MC!

rsd1 by M S, on Flickr


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Dirt, with every outing it only gets more addictive! Glad you're enjoying the MC.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Well we finally got some snow this winter on Southern Vancouver Island. I love shredding the snow since it makes trails we ride all the time feel totally different. :thumbsup:










My GF got her MC out in the snow to play and had a lot of fun.










People around here seem to just assume you can't ride in the snow so we get the trails to ourselves. In 10 years of riding every snowfall on the south island there was one time where it was so deep and fluffy that we couldn't even ride downhill on normal mountain bikes. Usually it's a blast.










This time around we could ride about 80%-90% of what we would normally ride with only the steepest punchiest climbs making us walk due to lack of traction. Of course there was a lot of wheel spinning and sliding around, but as long as you kept pedaling and enjoyed the challenge of keeping the bike moving it was possible to ride most trails. 










Unfortunately my GF managed to get her first MC flat and dent the rim nicely. She tells me it's her first on-the-trail flat in her ~10 years MTB career. That seems crazy, but I can't recall her flatting so I guess she's right. :eekster:










I hammered away on the dent with little success. So I used some Gorilla Tape to help the tire bead seal tubeless at that spot and threw some Stans Race sealant in. Seems to be holding so far. My buddy think he can improve the situation in his better equipped shop so we'll give that a shot on some rainy day. Bike seems rideable now.

My GF has only ridden longer travel FS bikes so I did worry she might ride "heavy" and not pick the smoothest lines. I wasn't on the ride in question so hard to say what happened. I have bought her a precise pressure gauge that can adjust to +/- 0.5psi and I have encouraged her to use it diligently.

I am in the school of "teach a rider to fish not hand them fish tacos" since I want her to be self-sufficient as she does lots of ladies' rides where she is frequently the most competent rider/mechanic in the group. If she has to sacracfice a rear rim to the Bike Gods learning the Way-of-the-Hardtail so be it. 










The snow is all gone now and our tech skills are nicely sharpened moving from snow/ice back to mud/moss/wet roots/wet rocks. We all feel like heroes for the moment.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I can't tell what the rim looks like or how it was damaged, but usually a crescent wrench and some patience and gentle persuasion can get aluminum rims back to 99% of new.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

hardtail party said:


> I can't tell what the rim looks like or how it was damaged, but usually a crescent wrench and some patience and gentle persuasion can get aluminum rims back to 99% of new.


It's got a really sharp dent in it. My GF is riding her MC a lot in our winter conditions so I'll leave it alone assuming the tubeless hack I did holds. When she switches to her summer FS 29er I'll take another stab and "fixing" the dent when there is no pressure to get the bike back in action again. I knew she wanted to ride it again today so last night I was just looking for a quick workable solution.

I'll report back once it gets more attention and hopefully like you say I can get it back more like new.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Vik, that stuff happens to all of us at some point.

Like Hardtail said, tweaking with a crescent and a kitchen hammer can do wonders and bring the rim back to useable. 
Needed for the fix is something solid to back up the interior wall of the rim while it is being tooled back. As for resolving a hop in the double wall, that's a more difficult fix.


My experience with tires, pressures and such comes from trials and lends to a lighter riding style that lessens the rim damage thing but doesn't eliminate it. Learning to be light on a bike (Regardless of rider weight) is key to longevity of the entire bike. 

Bend those elbows and knees some to take up some inertia. Never use a locked joint to take up inertia or impact. It is really hard on your joints and spine let alone that bike you are sailing down the trail on. Going from a squish to HT is going to expose the bad habit of being rigid on a bike and takes practice and perseverance to resolve however, worth every minute spent in doing so.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

BansheeRune said:


> Vik, that stuff happens to all of us at some point.
> 
> Like Hardtail said, tweaking with a crescent and a kitchen hammer can do wonders and bring the rim back to useable.
> Needed for the fix is something solid to back up the interior wall of the rim while it is being tooled back. As for resolving a hop in the double wall, that's a more difficult fix.
> ...


GF rode 40kms yesterday with no issues. So I think we are good for now. Come spring or next time I need to take that tire off I'll try and improve the fix.

When I started riding MTBs rigid was the only option so choosing good lines and riding light where just things you learned. My GF's first bike was a 6" travel enduro rig. So she just smashes her way through the terrain. Saying "ride light" to someone like her is not all that helpful. She's just got to experiment and build skills and see what happens.

If that rear rim needs replacing after a year from a bunch of hits that's okay. She'll learn a lot in the process and become a better rider. :thumbsup:


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

vikb said:


> GF rode 40kms yesterday with no issues. So I think we are good for now. Come spring or next time I need to take that tire off I'll try and improve the fix.
> 
> When I started riding MTBs rigid was the only option so choosing good lines and riding light where just things you learned. My GF's first bike was a 6" travel enduro rig. So she just smashes her way through the terrain. Saying "ride light" to someone like her is not all that helpful. She's just got to experiment and build skills and see what happens.
> 
> If that rear rim needs replacing after a year from a bunch of hits that's okay. She'll learn a lot in the process and become a better rider. :thumbsup:


It goes without saying, so to speak! Back in the day, making tacos wasn't limited to the kitchen! 
Like I said in the previous post, coaching from you and others can go a long way to helping develop the "ride light" thing. Not likely gonna happen over night but in progression. A learning experience, indeed!

Playing with the Sunspot in the snow as my little yellow friend is wearing the NN 3.0's! Looking forward to a rip around a singletrack on a client's property with both the MC and the Mayor. Fresh snow is falling and a test of the groomed by fatbike trail through the trees should be a fun experiene.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

vikb said:


> The snow is all gone now and our tech skills are nicely sharpened moving from snow/ice back to mud/moss/wet roots/wet rocks. We all feel like heroes for the moment.


So your trails remain open when muddy?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

prj71 said:


> So your trails remain open when muddy?


The forest trail with lotsa plant/tree material on the surface can be ridden wet with little to no damage. I have a couple of em nearby that have so much material on the surface, you would think an arborist dumped the chipper truck and spread its contents liberally. Others, no go, too much damage to terrain and bike parts.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

prj71 said:


> So your trails remain open when muddy?












Yes. We ride year round in the PNWet. Trail damage is a problem at the peak of summer when things are very dry and user volume is highest.

Our "mud" is more like soupy dirt. Doesn't stick to anything or build up.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Looks to be a gravel route as opposed to being adobe...


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

Does anyone know what hubs are on the Alu Middlechild Duroc wheelsets? Are those Sunringle SRC or SRX or different brand?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

kryten said:


> Does anyone know what hubs are on the Alu Middlechild Duroc wheelsets? Are those Sunringle SRC or SRX or different brand?


SRC

Now that some snow has melted in town, street sessions are in order!


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

BansheeRune said:


> SRC
> 
> Now that some snow has melted in town, street sessions are in order!


Thanks...so still curious, even the more expensive steel frame builds come still with SRC hubs then?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Believe so.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My GF's MC stoke remains high. She has done lots of techy trail riding here in Coastal BC as well as 50+kms non-techy gravel rides. Given the DHF/DHR tires the MC is doing really well on the less technically demanding, but longer rides. I'll probably put some Rekons on there for her in the summer both to save the DHF/DHRs for next winter and so she's got something faster rolling as she tires her hand at bikepacking and longer gravel shreds. 










The rear rim dent has not caused an issue since we hacked a fix. So no further action has been taken. When I put her summer tires on the bike I'll take another stab at it with some of the techniques mentioned up thread. :thumbsup:










She's having such a blast we've got a couple friends looking at picking up the new steel MCs in 29er format when they are back in stock this year.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Glad to hear the rim is working for now, Vik.

Looks kinda sticky out there.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

wanted to say that I'm still thoroughly enjoying my MC. 

I really like how poppy it is. Many times when encountering a big root or something, it doesn't take much effort to pick up the front wheel and a little hop or swing out the rear end a little bit to get a little squirley. I'm also learning to do some small jumping with it, which it does fine. It really does feel like a big BMX bike.

This is also the first bike I've owned that I genuinely love to look at, even looking down, those steel tubing lines just remind me of my old GT BMX.

The only thing from the build that I do still feel would be an upgrade, would be a better engaging hub. That little delay and clunk in engagement is the only part that I'd like to eliminate, of course, that's really really nit-picking. 

Also, my dropper post has a bit of play. Not sure how normal that is.


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## jtkyber (Jan 29, 2019)

Hey guys! I have had some amazing times on my Middle Child and am so glad I chose it as my first bike. However, I started racing collegiate downhill and needed to get a full squish. So as much as I'd love to keep my MC, I need to sell it in order to make the monthly payments for my new bike. If you are interesting in buying it, shoot me a dm!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

drivera said:


> wanted to say that I'm still thoroughly enjoying my MC.
> 
> I really like how poppy it is. Many times when encountering a big root or something, it doesn't take much effort to pick up the front wheel and a little hop or swing out the rear end a little bit to get a little squirley. I'm also learning to do some small jumping with it, which it does fine. It really does feel like a big BMX bike.
> 
> ...


I agree. My MC is a one speed automatic for that reason, BMX with a pithy attitude! Onyx is one way to go, I9 and Project 321 are also fast engaging but don't match the Onyx in that regard.



jtkyber said:


> Hey guys! I have had some amazing times on my Middle Child and am so glad I chose it as my first bike. However, I started racing collegiate downhill and needed to get a full squish. So as much as I'd love to keep my MC, I need to sell it in order to make the monthly payments for my new bike. If you are interesting in buying it, shoot me a dm!


Sad news but a good ending, perhaps. Need to mention size and build details tho'.


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## jtkyber (Jan 29, 2019)

It's a size large. Here is the Pinkbike link for all the details:

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2715262/


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

Snow is melting slowly and like I predicted, my daughter (12) has grown so much that our brand new Middlechild was too small for her. But my 11 years old son is now 5'4.5" so his sister's old bike was also too small.

My son will ride the MC this summer and I'm stoked for him because his riding was improving a lot last year and a traditional xc bike (he was supposed to ride a Trek X-Caliber small) wouldn't have been ideal for his progression. I need to cut the steerer a bit, and the 780mm bars. Still waiting for the dropper hopefully en route from China.

I'm building a medium Commencal Meta AM HT for my daughter. Geo is not the same but close enough (65 HA, CS 428, 140mm fork). Reach is shorter though and stack a little bit higher (compared to a medium MC). Finding a decent fork is hard (51mm offset 150mm) and I'm wondering how the bike would feel with a 46 or 44 offset. Any of you guys using such a fork on your MC?


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm running a 42mm offset pike on my mc and I love it. I can feel a small difference with shorter offset, but it's not night and day.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

hardtail party said:


> I'm running a 42mm offset pike on my mc and I love it. I can feel a small difference with shorter offset, but it's not night and day.


I guess it's not night and day but on a bike like this to me it makes sense. I wrote to Commencal and they said nono it's gonna slow the steering too much. So that's why I'm a little bit hesitant... If the total lenght of the bike is reduced and the steering is quieter at slow speed (less nervous)it seems to me that could be a good thing for my daughter...

EDIT I might have found a 150mm Pike with 51mmoffset...


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

I switched from a 51mm offset to a 44mm offset and prefer the shorter offset. With the 51mm i found the steering floppy at slow speeds and very stable at high speeds. The 44mm calms the steering down enough i don't feel like I have to focus on my handlebar flopping on technical climbs. From my experience is once the head angle gets slack (<66 degrees) a shorter offset makes more sense.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

What folks sometimes miss with the HA and fork combination is what happens with caster angle. A couple degrees makes a major difference in handling characteristics. It can become a chopper in a heartbeat.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

Swapped out the singlespeed, my knees just couldn't do it. Also upgraded to Maxxis wt dh tires. She's definitely a keeper!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

I did the shorter gears to begin with and get back in the swing of SS. I live in the mountains so it took a bit of training to get past the outta shape thing and go taller. Definitely a keeper! 
I hafta keep the knees I have for a few more years if I can.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

The world's situation is putting a new bike into perspective... that being said these posts have kept me looking forward to the "light at the end of the tunnel" when hopefully I will be able to swing my leg over my new RSD. Obviously we all need to keep ourselves, family and friends safe- first and foremost. Looking forward to the new bike has been and continues to be therapeutic. That being said, keep posting those pictures!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NJ Gator said:


> The world's situation is putting a new bike into perspective... that being said these posts have kept me looking forward to the "light at the end of the tunnel" when hopefully I will be able to swing my leg over my new RSD. Obviously we all need to keep ourselves, family and friends safe- first and foremost. Looking forward to the new bike has been and continues to be therapeutic. That being said, keep posting those pictures!


We are under "stay at home" but bicycling is not out as of yet. It isn't like most will be riding a tandem with a COVID carrier...
It's really easy to keep plenty of distance from others with a MiddleChild, but any other bike is not capable of distancing! [sarcasm]

If you can, break out the new bike and take a spin while using common sense and get to know that damn nice creation!


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

We are under "stay at home" but bicycling is not out as of yet. It isn't like most will be riding a tandem with a COVID carrier...


HAHA! Totally agree! I am still waiting for my Middle Child to arrive! May take a little longer than first thought... Hey life happens! I am grateful for what I have and my heart and prayers are going out to those that are facing obstacles. It just makes me appreciate the small things in life!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Good stuff, Gator! "Anticipation is makin' me wait!" Sounds like a ketchemup commercial...

You are in for a really good time taking that first ride. The MC is refreshing on so many levels. It defies explaination so you get to experience it for yourself. It is said to be habit forming, it's soooo true!!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

My MC took three rides to really click with it and learn its nuances. If you struggle on your first ride, withold judment 'till your third ride.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> My MC took three rides to really click with it and learn its nuances. If you struggle on your first ride, withold judment 'till your third ride.


Since each bicycle has a personality, this is common. Peeps need to do their due diligence in getting to know their new bike regardless of manufacturer. That means doing the rides and tweaking to fit their needs and such.

My MC was love at first pedalstroke and no sign of letting up!


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

I still love mine! Still trying to get some cornering techinques down, but the bike is pretty forgiving in my opinion.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

drivera said:


> I still love mine! Still trying to get some cornering techinques down, but the bike is pretty forgiving in my opinion.


The best part is getting out there and learning the bike's personality and groovin on it! All in all, very forgiving,indeed.


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## hgravez (Jul 15, 2008)

I posted on here probably 6mo ago about my initial dissatisfaction with my new MC. This was really just due to it feeling quite slow coming from a Spesh Fuse 6fattie. Here's my update. 

I quickly ditched the stock wheels for a set of Ibis S35 27.5s and went with much lower profile tires (2.8s; Rekon in front, Ikon in back). This really took care of the slowness issue right away. I've since logged >200mi on it with this config and I definitely really like the bike a lot. Still a little stiffer than I'd like, but I can deal. 

This last weekend, I decided to change over to a 29er config. This is represents a really nice little test of how these wheel sizes change the bike's handling as I went with Ibis S35 29er wheels and 29 x 2.6 Rekon in front, Ikon on back. So, exact same set up, but with 29ers and 2.6s. It definitely changed some things...I've ridden it twice now like this and only on a my homebase loop, which I have ridden many many times. Right off the bat, it is clearly not as nimble in front. More effort to steer, and a sense of the front wheel going to flop over. Not sure how else to describe it, but that's kinda what it feels like. The back end seems to kind of be a bit disconnected from the front. Not necessarily too badly, but it's an odd feeling. Some of this may have to do with tire pressure, as I'm running these a bit low, and never ran my 27.5s very low. That being said, the bike feels way more comfortable from a vibration/impact perspective. Again, partly prob due to tire pressure, but I think also the bigger hoops are more flexy. And, it feels probably more planted when climbing. Traction is still amazing, and probably not different from the 27.5x 2.8 set up. I do feel faster on it as a 29er. As we know, 29er wheels take a little bit more to get going but hold their speed better. That certainly seems to ring true as I hit PRs right off the bat. 

So, all this is to say, I'm not sure I really like it as much as a 29er. Or, maybe it's just a game of tradeoffs. I think I'll ride it for a little while longer as a 29er, and on some longer rides to see how she does. I'm thinking I may go back to 27.5 and I'm wondering...I know some on here has been riding it with 3.0s - which tires fit? And on which wheels have they been tried? I know it's not designed to go bigger than 2.8s, but there is certainly a bit of variability btw rim and tire combos. I LOVED my Fuse with 3.0s. It was like a rocketship with velcro when you needed it. I got rid of it b/c I really do love steel and wanted to be able to go SS. Wish I still had it, even though I have come to really like my MC. 

Feel free to ask further questions about my little test described above!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

With the mc, I find 29s to be faster (more prs), but 27.5+ to be more fun (usually). I'm always faster on my fs anyway, so I set mine up for fun.

Give the 2.8s a try with lower pressure. You'll be surprised. I've run 2.8s as low as 11 psi with cushcore, and as long as I'm not ripping corners really hard, i dig it. The purpose of the plus tires is to let air out of them, otherwise they're not a huge advantage.

I've run a wrb ranger 3.0 on the back of mine. It was closed but it never rubbed.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hgraves,

I run exclusively b3.0's since there is room to do so with the edge of tread clearing with 7-8mm to spare, sliders slammed forward.
Tire crown clearance is massive at this setting.
My fork is a Pike 150mm travel 46mm rake. 51 at that travel would lend too much caster and cause the "wheel flop" sensation to be very noticeable. While I do want to try out 29, 2.6 is the one feature holding this one back.
On 29... I have a funny feeling that 29 would make me have to rethink gearing all over again. Go figure! Not a deal breaker but something to do that will piss off my bike!! 

I am a trials based rider and therefore, light on the bike as possible. This comes from many years of seatless bike observed trials experince. It allows for lower tire pressure than most people can ride but that ability to be on velcro is a blessing. Also of note, I do choose the line more so than many since I have no desire to make this awesome bike a boat anchor with tires that weigh in like 4.8's!

With loads of flow trails where I ride, the MC does a bang up job that a Special Ed didn't really seem as good in my experience.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

hgravez said:


> I posted on here probably 6mo ago about my initial dissatisfaction with my new MC. This was really just due to it feeling quite slow coming from a Spesh Fuse 6fattie. Here's my update.
> 
> I quickly ditched the stock wheels for a set of Ibis S35 27.5s and went with much lower profile tires (2.8s; Rekon in front, Ikon in back). This really took care of the slowness issue right away. I've since logged >200mi on it with this config and I definitely really like the bike a lot. Still a little stiffer than I'd like, but I can deal.
> 
> ...


What do you meean by ** a sense of the front wheel going to flop over**
The last 3 seasons i enjoyed a HT 21 pounds 29x2.3 obviously nice for accelereations and usefull on many terrains. It started as 100mm but last season i went to 120mm. Last season i did 3 months on a 120mm HT 27.5x2.8. My Rekons were at 13psi and it was just real fun after 2 weeks of dialing it properly. 
I just enjoy having 2 used bikes and no need to change wheels. The + tires do better in spring and fall and the thin ones are a nice change. Going to a bike would be realy hard. Winter is on 4.8 studded.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

33red, try riding a chopper, then you will understand what too much caster does to steering.


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## hgravez (Jul 15, 2008)

Got in a much bigger ride today and I think I'm getting used to the slower front end. It is most noticeable in slow sections with active turning required. But, I totally destroyed my PRs on many sections of trail. It is so much faster with 29ers, and that increases the fun factor for me! So, maybe I'll keep it like this for a bit. For some reason, it still feels more comfortable from a vibration standpoint with the 29ers, even after adding back a little air before my ride today. 

I've got a custom Ripmo 2 on order, and might just pick up a new Fuse as well. Just for kicks! Good to have variety and I can't roll with just 1 bike for too long!

33red, the sense that I'm trying to describe is that turns give the bike a funny sort of unstable feeling in some cases. Primarily slow moving sections of trail. On the other hand, it seems very stable at speed. I've owned/ridden many 29ers over the past 15 years. This is a different scenario when we're talking a 140mm fork and <65 deg HA. This geometry is a huge departure from most 29er HTs and didn't even really exist until the last few years.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hgravez said:


> Got in a much bigger ride today and I think I'm getting used to the slower front end. It is most noticeable in slow sections with active turning required. But, I totally destroyed my PRs on many sections of trail. It is so much faster with 29ers, and that increases the fun factor for me! So, maybe I'll keep it like this for a bit. For some reason, it still feels more comfortable from a vibration standpoint with the 29ers, even after adding back a little air before my ride today.
> 
> I've got a custom Ripmo 2 on order, and might just pick up a new Fuse as well. Just for kicks! Good to have variety and I can't roll with just 1 bike for too long!
> 
> 33red, the sense that I'm trying to describe is that turns give the bike a funny sort of unstable feeling in some cases. Primarily slow moving sections of trail. On the other hand, it seems very stable at speed. I've owned/ridden many 29ers over the past 15 years. This is a different scenario when we're talking a 140mm fork and <65 deg HA. This geometry is a huge departure from most 29er HTs and didn't even really exist until the last few years.


I can relate to the addiction, my friend! I don't really notice any handling issue at any speed since I know all too well what twitchy is from riding my seatless trials bike, you want twitchy, get an Echo or Jitsie under your 5-10's! 
As for speed, that happens when gearing is dialed into the bike's wheel size and rider preference. Get into your powerband, get comfortable and pedal! Oh, what a feeling...


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

BansheeRune said:


> 33red, try riding a chopper, then you will understand what too much caster does to steering.


I'm running a 160 29er fork with 51 offset. There's no flop (unless your riding no hands) and all I ride is New England tech, of course I don't run narrow bars and a long stem...


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

Really a great bike! I think a lighter wheel set/tire combo would be even better for a 100lbs rider but we're gonna keep it stock for now... Just need some bigger jumps now and our dropper.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Good stuff, Lewis! 

Had the Wildcat and MC both out on Saturday and again today. Warm and damn nice yesterday and cold/overcast today.


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## brownplus (Mar 31, 2005)

eh, not a mc...though rode one and loved it...just not on the flat tight twisties....but the sergeant in SS and mullet mode is a thing of wonder fwiw. I love the longlowslack but in my eastcoast area ya gotta pick your weapon to match the conditions and the sarge really showed its mettle with the (all around) trails as well as trips to pisgah...it's not a hellion m-c but I got to say its a great all-round contender and perfect for fast singletrack'n with lotsa tight turns.....no probs with the durocs...my fav setup is rocket ron 2.8 27.5 rear, spec butcher grid 29, 2.6 front....oval blackspire front ring and SS laughing as I pass all the fs fully geared up the hills.
then crying as they all pass me downhill....sadddd
great bike...more versatile


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

brownplus said:


> eh, not a mc...though rode one and loved it...just not on the flat tight twisties....but the sergeant in SS and mullet mode is a thing of wonder fwiw. I love the longlowslack but in my eastcoast area ya gotta pick your weapon to match the conditions and the sarge really showed its mettle with the (all around) trails as well as trips to pisgah...it's not a hellion m-c but I got to say its a great all-round contender and perfect for fast singletrack'n with lotsa tight turns.....no probs with the durocs...my fav setup is rocket ron 2.8 27.5 rear, spec butcher grid 29, 2.6 front....oval blackspire front ring and SS laughing as I pass all the fs fully geared up the hills.
> then crying as they all pass me downhill....sadddd
> great bike...more versatile


I have a Sarge V3, built out as a mid fat that rides like magic on 3.8 FBR's for summer dirtin, Van Helga 4.0's for winter antics. I can say as an being owned by both a MiddleChild and a Sergeant V3, they are vastly different personalities but both are the most wonderful bikes on earth.

The V3... I have been thinking on 29+ with a firm expectation of 3.0 or 3.25 and not even thinking on anything with less volume. As it stands, the FBR's are lighter than the FBF in the same size and are far more reliable in terms of traction, confidence and their ability to not wash out unexpectedly. I do have the parts to make it a one speed automatic as well. SS gearing to be determined...

MiddleChild. One of the finest behaving dirt racers I have! Conquers the trails in the rocks, roots and everything between with a very playful, nimble attitude. Ascents, descents, straights, curves, it's a blessing in tennis ball yellow that aggravates 2.WTF tire bikes without trying. Pithy little bastard just eats up the dirt and feels amazing at any speed, in any terrain.

Frankly, I find the V3, as a rigid to be a return to the starting point with far better geometry, far better performance than I was using in the 70's on fire roads or anything else we could muster at the time. Sarge can be a pithy fat dirt racer at times, just the same.

I love my RSD bikes cause they are awesome and didn't cost as much as a freakin car!


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

brownplus said:


> eh, not a mc...though rode one and loved it...just not on the flat tight twisties....but the sergeant in SS and mullet mode is a thing of wonder fwiw. I love the longlowslack but in my eastcoast area ya gotta pick your weapon to match the conditions and the sarge really showed its mettle with the (all around) trails as well as trips to pisgah...it's not a hellion m-c but I got to say its a great all-round contender and perfect for fast singletrack'n with lotsa tight turns.....no probs with the durocs...my fav setup is rocket ron 2.8 27.5 rear, spec butcher grid 29, 2.6 front....oval blackspire front ring and SS laughing as I pass all the fs fully geared up the hills.
> then crying as they all pass me downhill....sadddd
> great bike...more versatile


I would like to try one myself. Not sure for a 5'4" 100lbs 11 years old boy it would be a great choice. Our trail have lots of up and down and some pretty technical stuff. I think the geo of the middle child (or any aggressive hardtail) is a good choice for progression, learning to jump, riding more difficult trail, etc... The Duroc seems like a good wheelset but at 2150g I could easily shed 1.5 pound with something lighter and a pair of 800-850 g tires (rekon or XR4). I think that would make quite a difference for a smaller rider...

I'm building a medium commencal meta am HT (29er wheelset with 2.3 tires) for my daughter and it should weight around 27,5lbs so almost 3lbs lighter than the small MC...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Lewis, look at the weight of most bikes directed toward the kid segment, they are made of rebar and weigh the same as some of the most rotund fatbikes! Just sayin'...


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

BansheeRune said:


> Lewis, look at the weight of most bikes directed toward the kid segment, they are made of rebar and weigh the same as some of the most rotund fatbikes! Just sayin'...


ahahah good point! I remember their 16" bikes were the same weight than my FS bike!! Anyway I knew what I was doing when I bought the MC. I was buying geo, unbeatable spec for the price and a solid bike overall. I can move parts on a bigger frame when my son outgrow this one. But for a not so powerful rider, rotational weight and rolling resistance comes into play for longer rides or long climbs. Will see how it goes if we even get the chance to ride a proper trail this summer I don't have the budget for another wheelset at the moment anyway...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Lewis, there's a reason Sunspot still has the MuleFut 50's and not a pair of Onyx in the center of some custom anodized rims with silver stainless spokes between the rims and hubs! They are expensive as it gets to build regardless of the "Carbon Tax Penalty" applied.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Real talk. I’m really really interested in this bike- living and riding in PHX. My current bike is not waving my flag. 69* HTA and limited to a 120 mm fork.

What would I be giving up by opting for the Alu MC vs the cromo?


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Impetus said:


> Real talk. I'm really really interested in this bike- living and riding in PHX. My current bike is not waving my flag. 69* HTA and limited to a 120 mm fork.
> 
> What would I be giving up by opting for the Alu MC vs the cromo?


Hard to tell without the Aluminum one being available- I think ETA is July. Spec is different but can swap that- steel frame is on the stiffer side as people observe and is heavier and more expensive. Aluminum may be really stiff or may not be- only time will tell. I know that doesn't help. I can offer to give you my thoughts when I get the Crome version in- with the current circumstances I think it'll take a few more weeks.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Impetus said:


> Real talk. I'm really really interested in this bike- living and riding in PHX. My current bike is not waving my flag. 69* HTA and limited to a 120 mm fork.
> 
> What would I be giving up by opting for the Alu MC vs the cromo?


The honest answer... Color choice and the steel frame is a lil more coin, so coin and for the Gucci model there's always Ti!!

AS for stiffness, they will be quite similar between Al and Fe. Ti will be more compliant.

Gator, the steel frames are in or due in any day now, if I remember correctly.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

BansheeRune said:


> Gator, the steel frames are in or due in any day now, if I remember correctly.


Just got my email yesterday from Alex- should be shipping soon!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NJ Gator said:


> Just got my email yesterday from Alex- should be shipping soon!


Another one ride the bike, do, do do, another one rides the bike!!

Need Wierd Al Yankovic to rewrite the song to fit properly!!


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

I'm really close to ordering an aluminum MC 29 but I can't decide if I want the raw finish or dark teal. Has anyone ordered one or the other and wish they chose differently? I like the look of the teal paint but raw seems like it will look better over time with less wear since no paint. The raw looks nice as well so I'm stuck on which to order.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

mblittle said:


> I'm really close to ordering an aluminum MC 29 but I can't decide if I want the raw finish or dark teal. Has anyone ordered one or the other and wish they chose differently? I like the look of the teal paint but raw seems like it will look better over time with less wear since no paint. The raw looks nice as well so I'm stuck on which to order.


I have not seen an AL MC in the wild online so I don't think anybody has one to provide feedback. I like raw metal bikes so that would be my choice if I was ordering one.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

mblittle said:


> I'm really close to ordering an aluminum MC 29 but I can't decide if I want the raw finish or dark teal. Has anyone ordered one or the other and wish they chose differently? I like the look of the teal paint but raw seems like it will look better over time with less wear since no paint. The raw looks nice as well so I'm stuck on which to order.


Where did you see a pic of the teal paint? 
This color intrigues me as well.

I'll be honest, I'd be ordering just a frame, and since my current build is blue- hubs, nipples, bars, clamps, etc I'd likely stick with raw as well.

Steve from Hardtail Party replies to a comment on his Banshee Paradox YouTube review that he would try to do a review of the Al MC if he got his hands on one. I'd love to hear his thoughts, given his experience on the Ti and CroMo.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

That'd be a tough choice! Raw looks cool, but I like color, so I'd prob go with the dark teal.


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

Impetus said:


> Where did you see a pic of the teal paint?
> This color intrigues me as well.
> 
> I'll be honest, I'd be ordering just a frame, and since my current build is blue- hubs, nipples, bars, clamps, etc I'd likely stick with raw as well.
> ...


The website shows pics of teal on chro bikes so I assumed it would be the same color. Maybe I was wrong about the teal on chro matching the teal on aluminum.


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

Think the Rockshox Recon RL (32 mm stanchions) will be a let down on the aluminum bike? I know something has to give to make a $1500 bike though. My primary trail bike is a Ripmo and the MC will be for riding with my kids and generally having fun around the neighborhood, jumping, practicing wheelies, manuals, etc. I ride clipped in on the Ripmo and will leave flats on the MC to work on a different skill set. My last few bikes have been higher end builds so just trying to get my expectations straight. I only weigh 170 lbs so that helps.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Aluminum isn't avail till July- I believe. I came off a RS Sektor and found the fork to be decent. I ride a Pike now and it is a better fork compared to the Sektor. But street tooling with the kids? I think it would work fine. Especially at 170lb.s. I weigh... more... and the fork performed for me.

Having ridden higher end builds you'll notice a difference but not to an extreme extent IMHO.


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## RSD Bikes (Sep 18, 2009)

Aluminum MC should be available mid May.
The Dark Teal images will be posted in 7-10 days. The Cr-Mo colour is Turquoise. Not the same at all.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

RSD Bikes said:


> Aluminum MC should be available mid May.
> The Dark Teal images will be posted in 7-10 days. The Cr-Mo colour is Turquoise. Not the same at all.


May is a lot sooner than July! Sorry Alex- my bad!


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## RSD Bikes (Sep 18, 2009)

NJ Gator said:


> May is a lot sooner than July! Sorry Alex- my bad!


 Does that make us "early"? That might be a first in the industry....


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

RSD Bikes said:


> Does that make us "early"? That might be a first in the industry....


You're still late for supper, Mister!! :cornut:


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

just looking for that aluminum give-away drawing (if still happening), I love my MC Cr-Mo so much. Wouldn't mind the Alu!!


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## 9GUY9 (Jul 14, 2007)

Anyone on the fence about getting this bike, I still highly recommend it. It is just a fun bike all the time. It climbs anything, then turns right around and descends anything you throw at it. I got a fancy new FS bike at the end of last season, I have yet to take it off its hook this spring. I have been having a blast riding my MiddleChild.


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

9GUY9 said:


> Anyone on the fence about getting this bike, I still highly recommend it. It is just a fun bike all the time. It climbs anything, then turns right around and descends anything you throw at it. I got a fancy new FS bike at the end of last season, I have yet to take it off its hook this spring. I have been having a blast riding my MiddleChild.
> View attachment 1326687
> View attachment 1326683


What wheel size is on your fs and MC? I'm on a Ripmo (29) and debating which MC wheel size to get. Keep it simple and get the 29 so I can share wheels and tires if needed, or mix it up and get the 27.5+ to try something different. I like the idea of a 27.5+ being more playful as some have said but I'm used to 29 and can really appreciate the extra rolloverness (or whatever you want to call it) that 29 offers. Finding a 27.5+ hardtail to demo is pretty much impossible.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I vote for 27.5+ then you can still run your ripmo wheels on the rsd. Best of both worlds. Just make sure your rotors and cassettes are the same size.


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

hardtail party said:


> I vote for 27.5+ then you can still run your ripmo wheels on the rsd. Best of both worlds. Just make sure your rotors and cassettes are the same size.


Appreciate the input. Since this will be a "play" bike I think 27.5+ makes sense. I don't really care about going fast or covering big mileage. Matching the rotors is no issue but I have a SRAM GX cassette on the Ripmo. Thinking I'll save up a bit more and get the steel MC which comes with Shimano components.

Love your channel by the way. The bunny hop challenge with Syd had me trying the same thing (not on your channel I know). I maxed out at 19" but I've got to try again.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

With a 27 you might have 3 bikes, with hybrid 29-27


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

mblittle, I run my MC and Wildcat with 27.5, i45's and 3.0's cause it works for my antics and trialsy riding style.

Bunny hop contest? I can sidehop 3' routinely although, that is done from the rear wheel.

9guy9, bike is lookin great! Nice wheels as well.


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## 9GUY9 (Jul 14, 2007)

mblittle said:


> What wheel size is on your fs and MC? I'm on a Ripmo (29) and debating which MC wheel size to get. Keep it simple and get the 29 so I can share wheels and tires if needed, or mix it up and get the 27.5+ to try something different. I like the idea of a 27.5+ being more playful as some have said but I'm used to 29 and can really appreciate the extra rolloverness (or whatever you want to call it) that 29 offers. Finding a 27.5+ hardtail to demo is pretty much impossible.


like these other guys have said 27+ is my choice. I am a heavy rider at 250lbs, and ride fairly hard. A 3" tire is just fun, I ride to have fun. My new FS bike is a 29'r, however I am looking for a set of 27+ wheels for it. My last FS bike was a 27+ Pony Rustler. I loved that bike, it was quick, playful, efficient, and I could ride it all day. Only problem was I broke 2 frames, I then decided to move on.

If you currently have a 29'r Ripmo I would for sure get a 27+ Middle Child. That way you have a wheelset of each size. You can play with swapping wheels and see what you prefer.


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## stm32disco (Jun 7, 2017)

NJ Gator said:


> Just got my email yesterday from Alex- should be shipping soon!


Anyone get a shipping email yet? I can't wait. I'm dreaming about this bike every night.


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## gerryl (Aug 10, 2014)

drivera said:


> just looking for that aluminum give-away drawing (if still happening), I love my MC Cr-Mo so much. Wouldn't mind the Alu!!


Me also! Winner, Winner? RSD will probably give everyone a drum roll before the drawing....not many days left in April.


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## fissiontofallout (May 16, 2017)

Saw on their website that the draw has been delayed to late May, probably due to shipping concerns.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

stm32disco said:


> Anyone get a shipping email yet? I can't wait. I'm dreaming about this bike every night.


When I spoke with Alex it sounds very, very soon! What did you get? I got an orange full build with a dropper- very, very excited!


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## stm32disco (Jun 7, 2017)

NJ Gator said:


> When I spoke with Alex it sounds very, very soon! What did you get? I got an orange full build with a dropper- very, very excited!


Just a stealth black frame. I have a 140mm Revelation and some DT Swiss 27.5+ wheels to put on it. It's going to be my second bike for bumming around the neighbourhood and casual riding with the family so I'm sure it get used way more than my full squish.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Gator and Disco are jonesin, hard!!!


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## hgravez (Jul 15, 2008)

I'd vote for a 27+ if you already have a Ripmo. That being said, I switched from 27+ to 29 recently on my MC and I don't think I'll be going back anytime soon. At some point, to give more comparison, but not soon. The reason being that I have been crushing it on the MC with 29ers. It is soooooo much faster climbing and descending. With 29x2.6 (Rekon in front, Ikon in rear), on Ibis S35 wheels, it actually feels more comfortable than the same setup in 27.5x2.8s. Perhaps I never rode the pressure low enough on the 27.5s, but the 29er setup is more comfortable (more give and shock absorption) even at relatively high pressures (20-24psi). The only thing I can figure is that the wheels are more flexy. Anyway, I'm having so much more fun on it with 29s. Alas, it is the only bike I have right now....recently sold an Ibis Ripley LS and waiting to pick up a custom Ripmo V2 that I ordered.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

hgravez said:


> I'd vote for a 27+ if you already have a Ripmo. That being said, I switched from 27+ to 29 recently on my MC and I don't think I'll be going back anytime soon. At some point, to give more comparison, but not soon. The reason being that I have been crushing it on the MC with 29ers. It is soooooo much faster climbing and descending. With 29x2.6 (Rekon in front, Ikon in rear), on Ibis S35 wheels, it actually feels more comfortable than the same setup in 27.5x2.8s. Perhaps I never rode the pressure low enough on the 27.5s, but the 29er setup is more comfortable (more give and shock absorption) even at relatively high pressures (20-24psi). The only thing I can figure is that the wheels are more flexy. Anyway, I'm having so much more fun on it with 29s. Alas, it is the only bike I have right now....recently sold an Ibis Ripley LS and waiting to pick up a custom Ripmo V2 that I ordered.


What were your tires on 27?
Do you have has much grip?


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## hgravez (Jul 15, 2008)

Exact same wheels and tires (Ibis S35 with Rekon in front, Ikon in back), but in 27+. Don't feel any loss of traction/grip. Its pretty incredible that the bike feels so much faster and more comfortable with minimal negatives - just the steering is little funky but only noticeable on the road. I described that in a prior post.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hgravez said:


> I'd vote for a 27+ if you already have a Ripmo. That being said, I switched from 27+ to 29 recently on my MC and I don't think I'll be going back anytime soon. At some point, to give more comparison, but not soon. The reason being that I have been crushing it on the MC with 29ers. It is soooooo much faster climbing and descending. With 29x2.6 (Rekon in front, Ikon in rear), on Ibis S35 wheels, it actually feels more comfortable than the same setup in 27.5x2.8s. Perhaps I never rode the pressure low enough on the 27.5s, but the 29er setup is more comfortable (more give and shock absorption) even at relatively high pressures (20-24psi). The only thing I can figure is that the wheels are more flexy. Anyway, I'm having so much more fun on it with 29s. Alas, it is the only bike I have right now....recently sold an Ibis Ripley LS and waiting to pick up a custom Ripmo V2 that I ordered.


Proper pressure, proper body english, regardless of diameter is essential.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Ti mc in xc mode. This weighs in well under 26 pounds without pedals.

120mm stepcast 34
Enve m525 wheels
Light 2.25 tires.

This steepened the seat angle a bit, and steepens the head angle to 66*. So fun to shred.









It's pretty amazing having a frame that rides xc so well, but can still take the abuse when the trail gets rough.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

BansheeRune said:


> Proper pressure, proper body english, regardless of diameter is essential.


So I just converted my MC to tubeless after popping one of the tubes.

I went with Orange Endurance sealant and some bling-ey oil-slick muc-off valves. And was able to do both tires myself! I was real hesitant to get to do this as last time I had tubes converted the shop wasn't able to do one of them, so i thought it'd be real hard. But honestly, I found a technique that worked for me real well. Although, I didn't have to seat both beads, as one was still seated... still it worked! 

In regards to proper pressure. I have a standard 'track pump' for road bikes that doesn't really have accurate enough pressure reading.

So, I assume the best way to accurately get to proper pressure will be to get an accurate pressure gauge and bleed off until my desired pressure?

Questions:
What type of pressure gauge is recommended? A digital one? I heard they will also eventually be ruined by the sealant so I guess I don't want to spend a ton on it?

How do I determine the proper pressure? I'll say my riding weight is probably 180lbs.

And lastly, I've not adjusted any of the air pressure in the Pike fork, how do I also determine the right pressure here and how are you pumping this up? Specific shock pump?

Sorry for all the noob questions


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

hardtail party said:


> Ti mc in xc mode. This weighs in well under 26 pounds without pedals.
> 
> 120mm stepcast 34
> Enve m525 wheels
> ...


I would just love a 26 pounds HT 120. I guess it is 29?
Retail price?


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

drivera said:


> So I just converted my MC to tubeless after popping one of the tubes.
> 
> I went with Orange Endurance sealant and some bling-ey oil-slick muc-off valves. And was able to do both tires myself! I was real hesitant to get to do this as last time I had tubes converted the shop wasn't able to do one of them, so i thought it'd be real hard. But honestly, I found a technique that worked for me real well. Although, I didn't have to seat both beads, as one was still seated... still it worked!
> 
> ...


Hi. Congrats for your tubeless setup! Are you running a 27.5+ setup or 29er? I've not use 27.5 myself but I'm guessing around 17 to 20 psi depending on casing of your tire and the kind of trails you ride. But others with real life experience will probably comment... For a 29er setup at your weight it would be around 22-24 front and 26-30 rear. I have a topeak smart gauge and it still works great for our 5 tubeless bikes. So no worry for sealant. I really like GH Meiser pressure gauge for a fat bike (0-15 psi) or mtb (0-30). They're a bit fragile if you drop them...

Experiment with pressure and always with the same gauge so you'll know what feels right for your riding...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

I second the Meiser gauges although, my index finger-thumb gauge works very well.
drivera, this is the place to ask q's related to your MC and such.

The Pike is easy to get a starting point value from the RS website. It is recommendations based on rider weight. That serves as a starting point and leaves you the option to experiment as you learn the fork performance.

Hardtail party, the only difference between street, XC and rowdy bike is the tires I inflate that day! Otherwise, never screw up an addiction...


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

BansheeRune said:


> I second the Meiser gauges although, my index finger-thumb gauge works very well.
> drivera, this is the place to ask q's related to your MC and such.
> 
> The Pike is easy to get a starting point value from the RS website. It is recommendations based on rider weight. That serves as a starting point and leaves you the option to experiment as you learn the fork performance.
> ...


yes, yes. Sorry about the non-related MC questions. I'll research additionally in the rest of the internets! 

Thank you for the suggestions.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

drivera said:


> yes, yes. Sorry about the non-related MC questions. I'll research additionally in the rest of the internets!
> 
> Thank you for the suggestions.


It's all good, buddy! We're all here with a common interest in the MC and are also having other conversation along the way. 
You might look into a pump that can be carried along while riding. I have the Lezyne Micro Floor Drive HV on each of my plus bikes. I also bought a Green Guru Shifter seat bag for the bicycle first aid kit where I keep a tube, patch kit, a couple tools and tire levers as well as the Meiser gauge.
Meiser gauges are on Amazon at a reasonable price. This makes tire adjustments on the trail easier and more doable without worry of going too low for the rest of a ride.








Pump on the frame is handy, as is the seat bag first aid kit.


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## ghebinkim (Nov 8, 2011)

*FS: Baron MK3 Wheelset w/ Butcher/Slaughter Tires*

Anybody interested in a 27.5+ wheelset? I have an almost-new Stan's Baron Mk3 Wheelset w/ Specialized Butcher/Slaughter 2.8 tires that I'm looking to unload. Shimano HG freehub.

Brand-new the wheelset alone is $699, and the tires are $60/ea. I have less than 100 miles on the wheels/tires. Everything in great condition, as you might expect with so few miles. I'm thinking $550 OBO for the set, with either local pickup in SF Bay Area or buyer pays shipping. If interested, please shoot me a DM.


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## stm32disco (Jun 7, 2017)

It arrived. I may just hang it on the wall as art.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

That's hot!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Disco's chore is cut... When can we ride it??


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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

What size is that?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

33red said:


> I would just love a 26 pounds HT 120. I guess it is 29?
> Retail price?


Yes, I'm running 29" wheels here. There are cheaper ways to get a light bike, but I haven't found one that rides like this yet.

Retail price would be absurd. I've got these wheels and fork in for review on another bike and I thought it'd be fun to toss them on here. I'm so glad I did, because it completely changed the vibe of the bike.


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## stm32disco (Jun 7, 2017)

Robik said:


> What size is that?


Large


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

that frame looks evil in black.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

We just received our KS-Lev-Integra dropper (b.o. in 125mm this winter), so I thought I'd post some pics of our final build... The bike is a little bit muddy but that black frame is really awesome in person.

Everything is stock except PNW Loam grips, One up composite pedals and 165mm RF Atlas cranks. I've cut maybe 30mm from the handlebars. I know my son will outgrow his small frame pretty fast (one or two years?) so I'm still hesitant to cut the steerer. I'll probably cut 10mm...

This bike feels like a mini-tank and I can't wait to see how my son will improve on our trail this summer (it appears that trail systems in our area will open with some distanciation mesures...)


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Lookin' good, Lewis! 

There are going to be a bucha peeps taking delivery as of late with the arrival of the new batch of bikes. Hope some of em stop here and post their rides and experiences.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

First MiddleChild test on the dirt on my brother's property... For sizing reference my son is around 5'5"


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Thanks, Lewis! Good times being had out there, doesn't get better than that.


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## areeves08 (Jan 7, 2020)

Any opinions on running the MC in mullet mode? I like the idea of extra volume in the rear, but I also love the way my 29er rolls. With the right fork, geo could remain pretty close, no? I’ll have a large turquoise MC frame arriving Thursday and want to get some new wheels built.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

areeves08 said:


> Any opinions on running the MC in mullet mode? I like the idea of extra volume in the rear, but I also love the way my 29er rolls. With the right fork, geo could remain pretty close, no? I'll have a large turquoise MC frame arriving Thursday and want to get some new wheels built.


I bought a 100mm HT 3 years ago. After 2 years when my fork was due for maintenance i had it modified to 120mm. I have not noticed any negative. A small change is just that a small change. With a 3.0 rear i would not hesitate but check if your fork will fit.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

areeves08 said:


> Any opinions on running the MC in mullet mode? I like the idea of extra volume in the rear, but I also love the way my 29er rolls. With the right fork, geo could remain pretty close, no? I'll have a large turquoise MC frame arriving Thursday and want to get some new wheels built.


Congratz on the MC! You are in for a real good time getting to know this bike. The frame is very nicely designed and made.

Don't even try to compare 29 x 2.4 or lesser tires to 2.8/3.0. Apples and moldy oranges is where that goes.
A 29 x 2.6 front, maybe but I'd best reserve comment on the massive diffeerence in air volume.

Frankly, 27.5 x real 2.8 as measured with an L.S. Starrett caliper will be very close if not par with a 29minus in terms of diameter. That leaves you and I with a tire/wheel that has the same approach angle.

On the 29 front, the only reason I have not tried 29 x 2.6 is that missing air volume of 2.8 (true measure) and that just sours the milk.

With my addiction to my MC, I do run a pair of G-Ones for street session and love the hell out of em. Fast, nimble and efficient with a volume that satisfies my plus need. Primarily, I run 3.0's for the fact that they offer a good ride quality while offering amazing traction and functionality.

Now, back to the mullet idea... I think it is a great experiment to fulfill. While I would love to do it, I don't really want the expense of a wheel that likely will and up hanging around and not be used much, if at all. If I run across someone I can borrow a wheel from, it's on! Dunno how it will ride and feel tho', til we experiment.

My MC is a singlespeed that serves well on speed runs through flow trails, trialsy play, a few runs down Valhalla, many, many desert rides and everything in between. The performance is exquisite and in a class of its own so I try to not distract from that. I love this bike and its handling as well as overall performance to the extent that those experiments last hours if not minutes and end so I have the performance dirt racer in good form and at the ready for an endorphin and adrenaline overload. The experience with the MC is unique and cannot be duplicated.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

33red said:


> I bought a 100mm HT 3 years ago. After 2 years when my fork was due for maintenance i had it modified to 120mm. I have not noticed any negative. A small change is just that a small change. With a 3.0 rear i would not hesitate but check if your fork will fit.


A/C is going to amplify the larger front wheel's effect on caster...


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

areeves08 said:


> Any opinions on running the MC in mullet mode? I like the idea of extra volume in the rear, but I also love the way my 29er rolls. With the right fork, geo could remain pretty close, no? I'll have a large turquoise MC frame arriving Thursday and want to get some new wheels built.


For what it's worth (not much) I saw a guy on a youtube who's testing bikes and when he try a hardtail (pole, banshee, etc), he always end-up running it mullet style. It seems to work for him. I'm not sure it would made that much difference. If I end-up with a MC one day (high probability) I might swap some wheels from our different bikes to try it...

Here's his video of the Paradox


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## areeves08 (Jan 7, 2020)

For those that received frames, do they come with the ZS44 headset and rear axle? I've read different things. If not, anyone have the P/N for the headset? I've got most of the big bits coming outside of the drivetrain, so should have it put together in a few weeks.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

areeves08 said:


> For those that received frames, do they come with the ZS44 headset and rear axle? I've read different things. If not, anyone have the P/N for the headset? I've got most of the big bits coming outside of the drivetrain, so should have it put together in a few weeks.


Headset and axle are included as is the seat post clamp.


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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

I'm receiving my XL tomorrow and have most of the parts, will build as 27.5+. Will use Cane Creek Helm Air, but not sure what travel to set. It's going to be my everyday trail bike. What travel did you prefer geometry wise?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Robik said:


> Will use Cane Creek Helm Air, but not sure what travel to set. It's going to be my everyday trail bike. What travel did you prefer geometry wise?


The stock setup at 140mm with a 29er/27+ fork works well for all sorts of riding. My GF will crush 20kms of road/bikepath and then shred the trails before heading home. The MC works fine on easier terrain as well as when things get rowdy.


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## stm32disco (Jun 7, 2017)

areeves08 said:


> For those that received frames, do they come with the ZS44 headset and rear axle? I've read different things. If not, anyone have the P/N for the headset? I've got most of the big bits coming outside of the drivetrain, so should have it put together in a few weeks.


Cane Creek 40.ZS44 and SRAM Maxel. Just pressed it in a couple days ago.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

My MiddleChild has arrived!

Pretty much stock with addition of Togs and Time pedals! I still need to convert the tires to tubeless but I must say I really like the Nobby Nics!

Build went fine- brake hoses were long and having only mech discs up to this point I was a little nervous trimming the hose but it was pretty easy.

Quick question- how should the bike "feel" while seated? I could immediately feel the steeper seat tube- to the point I felt odd- a little cramped and very upright. I moved the seat back on its rails and it "feels" better because it is sitting as far back as my XC bike with a slacker seat tube. I suspect I am I negating the steep seat tube angle by creating an effective slacker seat tube. Since this isn't an XC bike- is it supposed to put me in a more upright position while seated? Moving around the seat on dirt may be totally different than cruising the neighborhood... so any thoughts would be great.

That being said, standing with the seat down I feel very, very comfortable in the neutral position- keeping my head over and centered to the handlebar and flexing my hips to steer feels great and actually pretty intuitive.








Love the orange!


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

NJ Gator said:


> My MiddleChild has arrived!
> 
> Pretty much stock with addition of Togs and Time pedals! I still need to convert the tires to tubeless but I must say I really like the Nobby Nics!
> 
> ...


I would say if you can climb the steepest hill the seat may not be too far back.
After a few rides you should be able to be OK seating and not seating. 
I never push any seat back but that is because of my bone structure. 
You might have short legs and if your knees are OK i would definitely trust myself.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Gator,

I use a 25mm setback post with the seat slammed all the way back. Frankly, I prefer a slack seat tube over a roadie angle. My frame with a 150mm travel Pike is measuring 70° which is the cat's meow! Typically, I will send a .dwg file to a frame builder to get that number based on the axle-crown of the intended fork. With a steeper ST angle, I cannot get into my power band. That has everything to do with where I am over the crankset, too far forward and I cannot spin, whatsoever.

My build is very long arms and legs with minimal torso.
Bike build is a large frame with 70mm stem, 800mm bar with 25mm rise, 9° backsweep, 6° up for a trialsy feel. Fork is 150mm Pike 46mm rake. Wheels are Mulefut 50SL with SRC hubs. Seat post, Ritchey Classic 25mm backset. Seat, Serfas Cosmos, leather cover. Fine Italian lambskin covered frame pad cause this bike deserves the best! Rogue grips. Straitline Amp stem, 70mm. Turbine DM crank. Surly SS cog, 13t.







Pithy little bastage!








One more lap before the lightning, thunder and cloudburst arrive!

What I feel on my bike is a quality of reach so I don't have grips on the front axle, nor in my lap. On the seat cause I have a bike as opposed to a horse! The reach to the bars/grips is arms semi straight out to em, with a slight reach down. It permits a stretched out position or somewhat upright position based on where I need the weight on the tires. Seat height is rarely more than 1" above the stem height for a more playful ride without too much seat in the way going on. It is awesome on everything from a flow trail to a gully run, traditional trail features, etc.

On tires, I run a pair of Nobby Nic Performance 27.5 x 3.0's on i45's since the tire and rim form a wonderful profile and can run at lower pressures without folding over the side of a rim when I get trialsy. I had a pair of the snakeskin version but they felt dead when I needed em to be springy for trialsin. It's akin to letting my Labrador retriever have all the tennis balls before a match at Wimpledon! I quickly gave those away. :madman: A costly experiment, indeed. I bought a pair through Alex and found two pair of Performance tires on eBay. Fell in love with em when I received the pair from Alex and had to have more!

I think you just need some quality time to bond with the MiddleChild, honestly. The geometry is rather unique and if you haven't experienced slack bikes, might feel funky at first.
Gotta say, the orange is looking very nice, indeed! 
Get out and get to know the bike and you'll be in love! It's a stellar ride.



33red said:


> I would say if you can climb the steepest hill the seat may not be too far back.
> After a few rides you should be able to be OK seating and not seating.
> I never push any seat back but that is because of my bone structure.
> You might have short legs and if your knees are OK i would definitely trust myself.


Perhaps you should try one on...



Robik said:


> I'm receiving my XL tomorrow and have most of the parts, will build as 27.5+. Will use Cane Creek Helm Air, but not sure what travel to set. It's going to be my everyday trail bike. What travel did you prefer geometry wise?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


150mm with my Pike. The stance of the bike is very nice and with slight sag rides like the OEM 140 with no sag in terms of ride height.


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## areeves08 (Jan 7, 2020)

I should have the bike built in the next two weeks..

*Frame:* Large Turquiose
*Fork:* Fox 36 Float 29 FIT4 150mm 44mm Offset
*Headset:* Cane Creek ZS-44
*Handle Bar: *OneUp Carbon
*Stem:* OneUp Alloy 35mm
*Grips:* ESI Extra Chunky
*Front Wheel:* Race Face ARC Offset 35 29", 32H, Hope Pro4
*Rear Wheel: *Race Face ARC Offset 40 27.5", 32H, Hope Pro4
*Crank: *Shimano SLX 175mm
*Chain Ring: *AbsoluteBlack 32T Oval
*BB: *Wheels MFG MTB Angular Contact
*Chain: *SHIMANO XT
*Cassette: *SHIMANO SLX 10-51T 12spd
*Rear Shifter:* SHIMANO XT Trigger 12spd
*Rear Derailleur: *SHIMANO SLX Long Cage 12spd
*Brakes: *SHIMANO SLX 4 Pistons M7120
*Rotors: *SHIMANO SLX 203/180mm
*Saddle:* WTB Rocket
*Seat Post: *OneUP V2.1 180mm
*Rear Axle:* SRAM 180mm Rear Maxle Ultimate 12x148mm
*Tires: *Front 29x2.6" Schwalbe Nobby Nic, Rear 27.5x3.0 Schwalbe Rocket Ron

My only concern is that I may be a bit too slack, but we'll see how she rides before I go 27.5+ in the front or drop in a new air shaft.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

NJ Gator said:


> Quick question- how should the bike "feel" while seated? I could immediately feel the steeper seat tube- to the point I felt odd- a little cramped and very upright. I moved the seat back on its rails and it "feels" better because it is sitting as far back as my XC bike with a slacker seat tube. I suspect I am I negating the steep seat tube angle by creating an effective slacker seat tube. Since this isn't an XC bike- is it supposed to put me in a more upright position while seated? Moving around the seat on dirt may be totally different than cruising the neighborhood... so any thoughts would be great.


Some people love steep STAs. Some people don't. I'd keep riding the bike for a while to see if you get used to it. Assuming you don't you can get a dropper with a 1" setback head to move the saddle back and slack out the STA by a couple degrees. If you just push the saddle too far backwards on its rails you'll end up bending/breaking the rails.

On a FS bike when you sit on it the bike sags backwards and the STA gets slacker. On a hardtail the fork sags so the bike rotates forward and the STA gets steeper.

You can run the fork a bit firmer to reduce the amount the bike sags when you sit on it. That has the obvious downside, but it can help a bit as can running the LSC firmer if you have long pedally sections to deal with and then you can open the damper for any rowdy DHs where you'd be standing anyways.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

areeves08 said:


> I should have the bike built in the next two weeks..
> 
> *Frame:* Large Turquiose
> *Fork:* Fox 36 Float 29 FIT4 150mm 44mm Offset
> ...


Frankly, it will improve with a tire rotation after the air shaft job! 2.6 rear, 3.0 front will perform far better. *70's BMX days were awesome!*


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## stm32disco (Jun 7, 2017)

Alright, here's my 2020. This is the first bike I've ever built from frame up. It didn't take nearly as long as I hoped. Most of the parts are take-offs that I collected from Pinkbike over the last year.










My other bikes have been mostly SRAM, so I thought I'd go Shimano.

Frame: Large 
Fork: Pike RC 140mm
Cockpit: Random stuff, Brand-X 150mm dropper
Cranks: Turbine 170mm, 28T ring
Chain: SRAM PCX1
Cassette: Sunrace 11-42
Shifter: Shimano XT 11 speed
Derailleur: Shimano SLX GS (mid cage)
Brakes: Shimano Deore M6000
Rotors: SRAM Centerline 180/160
Wheels: DT Swiss 370, Duroc 35 
Tires: WTB Ranger 27.5x2.8.

I thought the pedals (Nukeproof Neutron) would look cool, but they don't. Once LBS is open for browsing again, I'll find something else.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

stm32disco said:


> Alright, here's my 2020.


Looks great. Have fun. The MC is a sweet ride. I agree some black pedals would complete the look!


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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

The best part about this bike is that it doesn't look like a gate in size XL









Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I dig the purple pedals. Black on black on black is too played out for me.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

stm32disco said:


> Alright, here's my 2020. This is the first bike I've ever built from frame up. It didn't take nearly as long as I hoped. Most of the parts are take-offs that I collected from Pinkbike over the last year.
> 
> My other bikes have been mostly SRAM, so I thought I'd go Shimano.
> 
> ...


The only way I'll give up my purple defacto surgical shin removal devices I call pedals might involve firearms! Black is fine but completely black just never, nope! Lest someone else is footin the bills...

Never mind that diatribe! Lets get down to the bike in question! Looks very nice. Now for some dirt time with ya on the new bike...
This should bring some freakin good posts out if ya as the adventure starts in earnest. This bike will be quite an eye opener in the near, near future. Be healthy, safe and have fun with the new addition.



Robik said:


> The best part about this bike is that it doesn't look like a gate in size XL
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Bitchen size XL looks like ride central, between stm32disco's pic and yours, bitchen bikes abound! Enjoy the ride, boys, enjoy the ride...

Here's one from today's last minute run this evening. Air condidtioned trail conditions since the sun went behind the mountain. Nice, cool, light breeze and cold canyon air feeling like being under an air conditioning vent. Climbing to the good part, never broke a sweat. Rippin down the descent with the flow happening on beautifully sculpted banked curves, lovely booters strategically placed to work wonders with rollers for a quality manual leading into another sweeping set of curves through shrubs and trees. Fvck, it doesn't get better than that!

On the lower loop, there is a hell of a nice dropin that really needs a bank leading out, to the left to join the next section that is more of a rowdy route. That will be investigated tomorrow... 
A trailside game cam... I wanted to stop and drop a BA soooo badly, curses! I was on the trail with a high priest! I could just see the Roaring Fork Mountainbike Club personnel tossin a table when they see it! They would have blown a head gasket! Pompous bastages anyway...








The trailhead signage... Oh yeah, purple pedals just for the sake of it!

What really pisses me off is beer drinkers and wineos are welcome but God forbid I smoke a hooter or break out some scotch, bastages!


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Here is mine after the shake down ride- dusty baptism!

First ride impressions:

I LOVE this bike.

As I stated before I needed to adjust the cockpit. I did this by starting from scratch. I put the saddle in the middle of the rails, adjusted the height and felt the reach. Riding clipped in, etc... I found my initial saddle height way too high. I also rotated the handlebar slightly forward and added a spacer- voila fit got so dialed-in.

On the trail- it felt great- it felt at home. This is interesting because I have never ridden a modern enduro HT before. In addition, this shake-down ride is the last trail I figured this bike would shine on- has flow but relatively flat (smaller loops, close to home, etc...)

My biggest surprised was LOVING the wheel size. Prior to this I ran 2.3 - 2.5's and thought I was going to be disappointed with such huge tires and would not like them on "easier" trails. Well my friends- I fretted for nothing. They accelerated well, soaked up the bumps and maaaaan the traction! I got slight po-go'ing as I need to drop the psi little bit which isn't a surprise but I don't think I am waaaaay off at this point. I need to get used to the weight bit- popping the rear wheel is a little harder- I think I need to pre-load more to get the spring out of the tire size.

Regarding positioning- weighting the front wheel is something I need to be conscience of- it feels good but I need to make sure I am using my hips more in cornering. Doesn't feel awkward just being more mindful to do so.

Overall- thrilled with this bike. Looking forward to getting a ride in tonight and dial-up the tech to see this thing really shine!!!!


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

For those running a KS LEV dropper how are you liking it? Trying to decide on whether to buy the bike with the dropper or not. I've got a Bike Yoke Revive on my Ripmo and it's super smooth, but more expensive.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

I like the KS Lev so far- I don't like the "pinch bolt" because you cut the cable flush to the bolt. Any cable slip could I foresee causing problems. I run the cable with little slack if I ever need a little extra cable. So far so good- but 2 rides in isn't much perspective. It is super, super smooth.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

mblittle said:


> For those running a KS LEV dropper how are you liking it? Trying to decide on whether to buy the bike with the dropper or not. I've got a Bike Yoke Revive on my Ripmo and it's super smooth, but more expensive.


For the price, I would go with the KS dropper. I've owned a KS-Lev TI (on my previous bike) and now I have a Bike Yoke Revive on my Ripmo. We also have a Ks Lev Integra on my son's Middlechild. I had to buy a Wolftooth lever cause I don't like the stock one but the southpaw is good (wasn't included in the build in 2019). The Revive is the best dropper that I've tried but it's so expensive. So 350can$ for the KS including the Southpaw remote is a "good deal" for a minimal difference in fonction and feel. Of course, if money is no object, I would spend 200$ for the Revive...


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

The orange looks awesome! How bright is it in person? I remember being wowed how bright my yellow frame was when I got it a year ago. 

Keep the pics and ride reports coming!


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

Placed an order yesterday and it shipped today. Large Turquoise Steel, SLX 27.5+ with the dropper. So excited!!!!


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

Really nice color...


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Orange is nice- not too bright in my opinion. Looks better after being ridden. New it looks really new! Excuses to keep riding!


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

mblittle said:


> Placed an order yesterday and it shipped today. Large Turquoise Steel, SLX 27.5+ with the dropper. So excited!!!!


NICE

If you plan to build it yourself, I found the rear brake hose long for the medium (may be good for the large. I post this because I didn't have mineral oil and needed to get it as well as the funnel and yellow "blocks" to hold the hose when installing the new "plunger" (may not be the right word). The hose trim did not cause too much air to enter I got maybe 12-15 air bubbles. I never had hydraulics before and I found the job easy to do after you-tubing the procedure.

Otherwise the build was straightforward. I fiddled with the Derailleur to get it solid but that is with any build. (I love the derailleur has a marking for setting the b screw- it isa little hard to see but there...)

Fork comes with 2 additional volume spacers which is nice

Chain is the correct length but I would have loved an extra quick link (how is that for being a PITA customer) to throw in the tool bag.

Oh yeah! tighten the bolts on the sliders- they are slammed all the way forward but I didn't feel mine were "cinched" up tightly enough. Again NOT a big deal but worth mentioning I figure...

Finally- converting the tires wheel to tubeless was easy-peasy.

Have fun- great bike.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

mblittle said:


> Placed an order yesterday and it shipped today. Large Turquoise Steel, SLX 27.5+ with the dropper. So excited!!!!


See how easy it was?

Gratz!


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

NJ Gator said:


> NICE
> 
> If you plan to build it yourself, I found the rear brake hose long for the medium (may be good for the large. I post this because I didn't have mineral oil and needed to get it as well as the funnel and yellow "blocks" to hold the hose when installing the new "plunger" (may not be the right word). The hose trim did not cause too much air to enter I got maybe 12-15 air bubbles. I never had hydraulics before and I found the job easy to do after you-tubing the procedure.
> 
> ...


I'll be building it myself. Is the derailleur already set up with chain run through it but just needs to be bolted on? Or will I need to set all the screws on the derailleur so that it shifts properly?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NJ Gator said:


> NICE
> 
> If you plan to build it yourself, I found the rear brake hose long for the medium (may be good for the large. I post this because I didn't have mineral oil and needed to get it as well as the funnel and yellow "blocks" to hold the hose when installing the new "plunger" (may not be the right word). The hose trim did not cause too much air to enter I got maybe 12-15 air bubbles. I never had hydraulics before and I found the job easy to do after you-tubing the procedure.
> 
> ...


Slider bolt torque 17-20 nM (12.5-15 ft-lb) Over-tightening will be an expensive adventure!



mblittle said:


> I'll be building it myself. Is the derailleur already set up with chain run through it but just needs to be bolted on? Or will I need to set all the screws on the derailleur so that it shifts properly?


 Completes are typically all built and a few parts removed for shipping. RD will be unbolted but mostly dialed in. Bar/stem will be removed and wrapped and tucked next to the frame in the box, well padded and tied. Just minor things to do and pump up the tires!


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Yeah I assumed the RD was not adjusted and I started fiddling with it from jump street!

Agree over tightening those bolts would suck- I was sure not to crush it but I would say they were looser than I would have wanted...


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

Quick shot of riding Fort Yargo blue route yesterday. Was a much needed ride and I still love this thing. Just gotta sort out my gear indexing, a bit crunchy at the moment. Also needs a bath since there was some muddy parts which were so fun.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Middle Child ride with a 120mm fork and light wheels. I dig it. I ended up swapping the 35mm stem to a 50mm stem and it felt a lot more balanced, and the front end didn't want to push quite as much.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

drivera said:


> Quick shot of riding Fort Yargo blue route yesterday. Was a much needed ride and I still love this thing. Just gotta sort out my gear indexing, a bit crunchy at the moment. Also needs a bath since there was some muddy parts which were so fun.


Look it over closely. That should let you know whether to loosen or add tension to the cable. Poor downshift, more tension, poor upshift, loosen. 1/2 turn at a time makes it easier and keeps over-adjustment to a minimum.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

BansheeRune said:


> Look it over closely. That should let you know whether to loosen or add tension to the cable. Poor downshift, more tension, poor upshift, loosen. 1/2 turn at a time makes it easier and keeps over-adjustment to a minimum.


This might sound funny but to be sure do you consider moving from 42 to 11 going down?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

33red said:


> This might sound funny but to be sure do you consider moving from 42 to 11 going down?


Starting from final drive is the beginning of adjustment. Fine tuning takes place as needed. 
Frankly, if the system is in detent, I can tweak from anywhere since I can look at the pulley alignment and gear. If they are not in alignment, I simply make them in alignment.


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

Tips on setting the fork up and air pressure for tubeless tires? I weigh 180 geared up with 27.5 x 2.8 tires. By the way the build took a long time as the bike was in many pieces out of the box. No mechanic could do it in 30 minutes as described on the website. Had to convert to tubeless, install rotors, install fork, run the cables and chain, set up the derailleur and install the dropper. All of The cables are easily 6”- 10” too long when installed on a size large.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

The fork will have a recommended pressure chart on the fork leg.

For tire psi, go by feel. I'd start with 18 f/r and adjust from there.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

mblittle said:


> Tips on setting the fork up and air pressure for tubeless tires? I weigh 180 geared up with 27.5 x 2.8 tires. By the way the build took a long time as the bike was in many pieces out of the box. No mechanic could do it in 30 minutes as described on the website. Had to convert to tubeless, install rotors, install fork, run the cables and chain, set up the derailleur and install the dropper. All of The cables are easily 6"- 10" too long when installed on a size large.


As Hardtail said.

Fork setup. Follow the recommended pressure to begin. Open the rebound and compression settings all the way, start with compression setting and move to rebound from there.


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

BansheeRune said:


> As Hardtail said.
> 
> Fork setup. Follow the recommended pressure to begin. Open the rebound and compression settings all the way, start with compression setting and move to rebound from there.


Thanks for the tips guys. The base air pressure I've got as stated on the fork but I was curious if anyone has messed around adding tokens and what their experience has been. Also curious what settings others are running for low speed compression and rebound. The Ripmo thread has a whole section dedicated to tuning the Fox 36 Grip 2 which I understand is far more adjustable but just curious if others have already learned what works well for them on this fork/bike combo and is willing to share the details. Sounds like maybe that's on the case but I'll report back what I find and hopefully help someone else out down the road.

Below are my initial impressions after assembling the bike and getting in one 8 mile ride with plenty of steep ups and downs much not much on rocks and roots:
1. Not angry about it but just wasn't expecting to assemble so much. I've built plenty of bikes and had the know how and tools, but it took me a while. Plan for one hour minimum if you are an expert mechanic or double that if you know how to do things but often goober them up and have to do it twice. Triple that if you have to search YouTube on setting up an SLX drivetrain to get it shifting smoothly.
2. The turquoise paint and color is amazing. It looks like it glows. Could not be happier with the paint.
3. The tires were the easiest I've ever set up tubeless. You almost don't even need tire levers, but you still do.
4. All the cables and hoses are too long so be prepared with spare barb/olive to shorten the brake hoses. You also may need mineral oil in case you spill some from the hose while cutting them.
5. From the box, the chain is too short for the drivetrain to shift properly but it comes with extra links and a quick link. I had to add two links to prevent the chain from pulling the derailleur too far when in the 10 cog.
6. I had to pull the right grip and switch the brake/shifter location around. I like the brake lever really far from the grip so I can just reach it with my index finger and that pushed the shifter to far from my thumb so switched them around.
7. I started with 15f / 18r for air pressure and could go down some but my test trail didn't have any rocks and not many roots.
8. Nothing much to say about the fork yet as I pumped it to 80 psi and don't remember what the settings were on LSC and rebound. It felt okay but I'll likely add tokens as it seemed to blow through the travel.
9. I found a good video on YouTube on how to set up the drivetrain and followed it exactly. My last bike was SRAM 11 and and my Ripmo is GX 12 speed but so far the Shimano SLX felt great.**



. 
10. Double check that the sliders match and are tight as they were not in the exact same position*but that's an easy fix.
11. I prefer Ergon grips but the North Shore grips felt pretty good and I don't plan to change them out.
12. The tires grip really really well and helped soften the hardtail sting. I was expecting harshness but was pleasantly surprised at how compliant the bike was.
13. SLX 4 pots are great. I've got the XT on my Ripmo*and the SLX are just as good.
14. The KS dropper is super smooth but the 150 mm is not enough in my opinion for someone who is 5'11" on a size large. A 175 would be better but I was worried I couldn't insert it far enough before it won't go further. Alex said he's got a 32" inseam and can just barely run the 175 mm but I didn't want to chance it.
15. The geo feels great but I wouldn't complain if it was 1 degree slacker. I never thought I would want a 64 up front on a hardtail but after riding the Rimpo the RSD MC felt steep! I know the Ripmo slackens due to the FS and the MC steepens when sagged. Now I know why Hardtail Party always states on his channel that some of the bikes he reviews just feel twitchy and when they are steeper than 65.
16. First ride was on OneUp composite platforms but I think I'll be riding clipped in from now on to match the Ripmo. I love the idea of flats and I can get around on them fine but prefer XT trail pedals.
17. I'm looking forward to many many more fun rides on the MC. It's so playful and just great to look at.


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## areeves08 (Jan 7, 2020)

Making progress on the build, just waiting on a few more items to get it finished up. I agree, the Turquoise looks great.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Great post- let me add on to the following as well

Below are my initial impressions after assembling the bike and getting in one 8 mile ride with plenty of steep ups and downs much not much on rocks and roots:
1. Not angry about it but just wasn't expecting to assemble so much. I've built plenty of bikes and had the know how and tools, but it took me a while. Plan for one hour minimum if you are an expert mechanic or double that if you know how to do things but often goober them up and have to do it twice. Triple that if you have to search YouTube on setting up an SLX drivetrain to get it shifting smoothly.

Agree- I enjoyed the process but I agree those will be intimidated if not used to building up bikes.


2. The turquoise paint and color is amazing. It looks like it glows. Could not be happier with the paint.

Sorry my Orange MC is cooler than yours... ;-)


3. The tires were the easiest I've ever set up tubeless. You almost don't even need tire levers, but you still do.

Couldn't agree more

4. All the cables and hoses are too long so be prepared with spare barb/olive to shorten the brake hoses. You also may need mineral oil in case you spill some from the hose while cutting them.

Agree- I needed a barb and olive and oil. The process was easier than I thought. My take away is be prepared.

5. From the box, the chain is too short for the drivetrain to shift properly but it comes with extra links and a quick link. I had to add two links to prevent the chain from pulling the derailleur too far when in the 10 cog.

Not my experience. chain was the correct link. At least I assumed so I will need to reference the extension of the rear Der at full extension.


10. Double check that the sliders match and are tight as they were not in the exact same position*but that's an easy fix.

Mine was little loose and I tightened them down- don't kill it- if they strip that would suuuuuck! As BansheeRune says- expensive mistake!

11. I prefer Ergon grips but the North Shore grips felt pretty good and I don't plan to change them out.
Agree I like them!

12. The tires grip really really well and helped soften the hardtail sting. I was expecting harshness but was pleasantly surprised at how compliant the bike was.
AGREE! I thought the tires were gonna be heavy and not responsive. They have been great! I am bummed as I think Nobby Nic's in 2.8 are discontinued... :-(


I am finding pedal strikes- why? The bike CHARGES. My lines are now choppier and I am needing to learning how to time out my pedal rotations


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Learning to adjust/tune suspension is one of the most important things you can learn. I'd research as much as you can on the topic. My friends and I run completely different suspension setups, despite being the same weight and riding the same trails. Learning what each circuit does can help a lot. Here's a quick video I made to help people understand the basics:






I'll be creating a dedicated course on how to adjust and dial in your suspension, but that's a ways out. Fox has a great "Dialed" series on YouTube with some great info too. When you understand what volume spacers do, when to change high speed vs low speed compression, etc., you'll better know how to make adjustments to suit your riding.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I've attended a few clinics, where they have the participants set their suspension dampers in the middle of their range, and ride up and down a curb a few times.

Then they have everyone open their rebound up all the way fast. Then they repeat the loop, paying attention to what feels different.

Then they go back and close their rebound all the way, and re-ride their loop, making notes about what feels different.

Then they repeat it with compression.

The participants really get a feel for what each setting does. That, in conjunction with my video above, will help you learn what's going on in there and pick a feel that feels right for you. 

I recommend reading up about suspension packing as well, which will help you determine if your rebound is too slow. I like a fast rebound because I come from a BMX background, but a lot of people prefer a slower rebound that's more in control on the big hits.

Body position, riding style, speed, and terrain will all dictate a different suspension setup, so giving you my settings may actually make things worse for you, not better. Knowledge is key here, and with a bit of knowledge about how your suspension works, how it feels at both ends of the spectrum, and how to get it to feel how you like will be far better than a list of everyone's settings. Not to mention, half the people who contribute suspension settings to threads probably don't know what they're doing, so their input is less than helpful.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

@mblittle, which fork offset is on your fork? You might be feeling the fork offset rather than the head angle. I run a 42mm offset on my pike on my MC. I prefer the short offset fork. It helps the front end at speed in straight lines. It requires more body english to turn, but I like that anyway.


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

hardtail party said:


> @mblittle, which fork offset is on your fork? You might be feeling the fork offset rather than the head angle. I run a 42mm offset on my pike on my MC. I prefer the short offset fork. It helps the front end at speed in straight lines. It requires more body english to turn, but I like that anyway.


51mm. It's the stock SLX 27.5+ build straight from RSD with the Pike Select RC fork. I probably didn't state my thoughts very clear and it very well may be the offset. I was just making a direct comparison to the Ripmo, which really doesn't make sense. When asking others about their setups I was referring to anyone with the stock build straight from RSD, but you are correct that everyone is different and sometimes other peoples opinions of suspension setup just make things worse. I appreciate the input though.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Until you get on a pure trials bike, twitchy doesn't apply. 

Try a steep head angle, caster angle along with a +100mm BB. They are a challenge and a handful.

mblittle, the Pike is a very nice fork with good performance. Keeping the rebound fast is to prevent packing. Packing is when the fork stays mid travel since it doesn't have time to rebound before the next hit. Think washboard. Getting the compression dialed doesn't take long but make only one change at a time and test that change. After doing the compression, rebound can be tweaked. Personally, I like it fast so I can rail without feeling like my fork is rigid at times.

As for the build of my MC... That was 45 minutes including a brake bleed. Tubeless is great when you don't swap tires for the terrain and activity on the day's menu. I swap between G-One 2.8's, Rocket Ron 3.0's and Nobby Nic 3.0's frequently and don't have time for the tubeless thing due to the time going into it. Q-Tubes SL 26 x 2.7's are a perfect fit and only add a few milligrams, so no weight saving without spending a ton on plastico wheels.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

Just a quick post for anyone whose Raceface BB is creaking. Ours was not shot yet, and we had dismantled and reassembled the whole cinch assembly only to still have some intermittent creaking. We needed to buy a bottom bracket tool, so in the interest of keeping things simple, my son agreed to purchase the Cane Creek Hellbender BB, as it has the Raceface 12 notch interface. I payed for the Wolftooth BB tool, and all went well with the install. Time will tell regarding durability, but we are cautiously optimistic.
It also coordinates with his pedals, which was unplanned.

Since I have not posted in a while, I will add that the still twelve year old boy is now almost 5’8” tall and able to legitimately manual the size medium Middlechild (29er with chain stays @ 430). So, for those parents on the fence, consider buying up a size.


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

Updates on my impressions after a weekend of riding singletrack (plenty of chunky roots, no rocks and 1100' of vert over 13 miles to give you an idea of terrain.)
1. ran 13 psi front and 15 psi rear - felt great and felt no tire squirm. May consider going lower.
2. realized i actually don't like the stock grips because I ride with my hands all the way to the outside of the bar therefore I'm gripping the lock ring which has no cushion/vibration dampening. I swapped Ergon GE1 from my Ripmo and things felt better, and more familiar of course.
3. loving the 27.5+ set up and can't imagine going to 29" on this bike, given that my other bike is a 29". Can't say how I'd feel if this was my only bike. I can def feel the smaller wheel size cornering easier and love the grip from the wider tires.
4. Had to read the Shimano manual to get the b tension right as there is no guide printed on the SLX mech. The shifting was very sensitive to the b tension being right and would skip a tooth now and then before I adjusted the b tension.
5. I love the feel of standing and mashing on the pedals out of corners and feeling the bike just jump forward with acceleration b/c there is no rear suspension to soak up the forces.
6. I was not able to clean multiple root covered climbs that I can easily clean on the Ripmo due to loss of traction on the rear wheel when it bounces off of roots. I know I need to learn how to move the bike and my body on a hardtail but just pointing out that with a FS you can be lazier and sit and spin right up technical climbs with ease. I also noticed the front wanted to wheelie up the steep climbs and that never happens on the Ripmo. 74 degree seat tube angle vs 77 plus I've had time to get adjusted to the Ripmo. I only attempted each climb once and could have cleaned them with practice.
7. short chain stays do not automatically make you a wheelie / manual master. I'm decent at wheelies on the Ripmo b/c I've learned over time how to feel them out but everything is different on the MC. Yeah it's easier to get the front up but it's like relearning in my opinion. 
8. no complaints about the wheel set given the price of the total build but the lack of instant engagement from the rear hub is quite noticeable when compared to the I9 hydra hubs on the Ripmo. I can see rebuilding the rear wheel with a high end hub down the road at some point.
9. love the bike and have zero regrets about the purchase. I cross shopped the MC against the Chromag Rootdown and multiple bikes from Coptic, NS, NukeProof and Commencal.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

mblittle,

There is much to learn with the MiddleChild. 
Climbing and position over the bike. Getting used to sliding forward on the seat where other bikes may not require it. My MC measures 70° STA which places my position where I need to work from, 77° is reason to cancel an order!
Since my bike is a one speed automatic, I can relate to stand and mash however, I try to stay in my powerband so I can spend as much of an ascent sittin anna spinnin'.
With some quality time, you and the MC will clean everything you are cleaning with the Ripmo. Just learning the bike and where the performance lives as well as how to access it since it is unique unto itself.

On the topic of Chromag... Their price would be more than I would spend on a custom steel frame built to the blueprint I supply. The MC is near as I will get from production to my choices in geometry. 

Chainstay length and manuals/wheelies... A whole topic on its own! It took some time to learn the feel and balance point since I am used to a 384mm stay on my stock trials bike. I spend some time with my doggie gurl and practice while she gets to run and play. A chickit and tennis ball make her run her ass off while I get in a manny or wheelie! Good times! 

Lotsa points in your post sound very familiar. Glad you're lovin the new bike and having a great time riding.


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## acrmedic (Jul 20, 2015)

Question for those who bought the orange frame. How bright is it? Is it a darker color? I am hoping for a traffic cone orange color. Otherwise I will wait for more black frames to come in.


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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

acrmedic said:


> Question for those who bought the orange frame. How bright is it? Is it a darker color? I am hoping for a traffic cone orange color. Otherwise I will wait for more black frames to come in.


It's quite bright, but not neon orange









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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

acrmedic said:


> Question for those who bought the orange frame. How bright is it? Is it a darker color? I am hoping for a traffic cone orange color. Otherwise I will wait for more black frames to come in.


I think "traffic cone" orange is a good way to describe it. I don't think it is neon and I love how the frame looks with dust, dirt and mud. If I had to do it again I would buy the orange without a doubt.


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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

To anyone interested, I'm about to part out my ridden once Middle Child XL pictured above. Can sell as a complete build as well

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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

I am curious what others think- I think the build is solid (kudo's to Alex). The wheels always seem to be the target as the weakest link in the reviews. I feel the wheels are good although I think the engagement is a little slow on the driveway but on trail feels pretty solid. I also can track stand like a madman (my only real real true standout) and I wonder if that helps me compensate. I ask because I always like to have a second wheel set on hand- for a few reasons- I like having an option to swap when wheel repairs need to be done and the wait-time at the shop can be long and if I want to run two different tires and I can swap quick and easy. Would it be crazy to buy another set of Duroc's? Or take the opportunity to buy something with a bit more bling?


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

NJ Gator said:


> I am curious what others think- I think the build is solid (kudo's to Alex). The wheels always seem to be the target as the weakest link in the reviews. I feel the wheels are good although I think the engagement is a little slow on the driveway but on trail feels pretty solid. I also can track stand like a madman (my only real real true standout) and I wonder if that helps me compensate. I ask because I always like to have a second wheel set on hand- for a few reasons- I like having an option to swap when wheel repairs need to be done and the wait-time at the shop can be long and if I want to run two different tires and I can swap quick and easy. Would it be crazy to buy another set of Duroc's? Or take the opportunity to buy something with a bit more bling?


I bought 29" Bontrager Line 30 Comp wheelset for my Middlechild. My other set is RF AR40 with 2.8s. Upgraded to 6 pawls and 108POE for additional $30. So far happy with how it turned out for a $300 wheelset.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

acrmedic said:


> Question for those who bought the orange frame. How bright is it? Is it a darker color? I am hoping for a traffic cone orange color. Otherwise I will wait for more black frames to come in.


The colors offered by RSD are usually brighter in person than in web pix. If it turns out to be the same orange used on the Mayor, it will be a bright orange.
My yellow "Tennis Ball Yellow" nearly detached my retinas when I opened the box but in pix was not quite that bright.


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

Since it worked for another member, figure I would try the same...

I'm curious if anyone is thinking of or interested in selling their tennis ball yellow size MEDIUM--I would be interested if you are!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Matthew_VA said:


> Since it worked for another member, figure I would try the same...
> 
> I'm curious if anyone is thinking of or interested in selling their tennis ball yellow size MEDIUM--I would be interested if you are!


Sunspot is a lifer and a large, so, mitts off!!


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Matthew_VA said:


> Since it worked for another member, figure I would try the same...
> 
> I'm curious if anyone is thinking of or interested in selling their tennis ball yellow size MEDIUM--I would be interested if you are!


Ebay had a frame listed not too long ago- I don't think it sold I would keep an eye out for it...

That being said there is a reason why orange is so darn cool... it is the new black. just saying.


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## Matthew_VA (Jun 8, 2020)

Thanks, don't see it on eBay but will keep my eyes open. The orange is nice and available (so an option), figured I'd see if I can acquire the yellow first.



NJ Gator said:


> Ebay had a frame listed not too long ago- I don't think it sold I would keep an eye out for it...
> 
> That being said there is a reason why orange is so darn cool... it is the new black. just saying.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Matthew_VA said:


> Thanks, don't see it on eBay but will keep my eyes open. The orange is nice and available (so an option), figured I'd see if I can acquire the yellow first.


I also noticed the 40mm Duroc's are slightly back-ordered. The 50mm Duroc's are being supplemented- If you plan on running 2.6's- 50mm IW may be a tad wide. Just an fyi- the Nobby Nic 40mm Duroc set-up is pretty spot on... I personally won't be downsizing to 2.6


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I've got a small tennis ball yellow frame for sale if anyone's looking.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

Was it a dream or someone was riding his MC with a 27.5 2.6 at the back?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NJ Gator said:


> I also noticed the 40mm Duroc's are slightly back-ordered. The 50mm Duroc's are being supplemented- If you plan on running 2.6's- 50mm IW may be a tad wide. Just an fyi- the Nobby Nic 40mm Duroc set-up is pretty spot on... I personally won't be downsizing to 2.6


I have i45's and Nobby Nic 3.0's as well as Rocket Ron 3.0's without any issue. 2.6 is just not plus enough to be plus and I cannot blame you for not wanting to minus bike a MiddleChild!



hardtail party said:


> I've got a small tennis ball yellow frame for sale if anyone's looking.


No love?? I see how it is!


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

BansheeRune- how is your SS set-up? With a NW Chainring- are you using a specific chain (11,12 speed) and do you need a specific cog? I am thinking a SS Surly cog, the NW chain ring (race Face) and a Box 2 Prime 9 Speed Chain. I don't think the Box 2 Chain is too narrow and should sit in the cog okay. Thoughts?

All my SS setups have been 8 speed sram and "regular" chain ring

Thinking of going SS later in the season but just curious...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NJ Gator said:


> BansheeRune- how is your SS set-up? With a NW Chainring- are you using a specific chain (11,12 speed) and do you need a specific cog? I am thinking a SS Surly cog, the NW chain ring (race Face) and a Box 2 Prime 9 Speed Chain. I don't think the Box 2 Chain is too narrow and should sit in the cog okay. Thoughts?
> 
> All my SS setups have been 8 speed sram and "regular" chain ring
> 
> Thinking of going SS later in the season but just curious...


My setup is a Race Face chainring and Surly cog. Surly cogs are 9 speed compatible and I am using a KMC 9 speed chain. Current gearing is 28-14 for a 2:1 ratio. I'll be going to a 30 up front in the near future for a little taller gearing as I get back to good. Blown knees is what I am trying to preserve since I cannot get a 7-70 plan on replacements!

On the ride... I love the singlespeed ride qualities. Frankly, I have no issue riding everywhere the geared riders are going and keep respectable speeds going. One thing that does irritate me is a slowpoke that keeps me out of my powerband on a climb. Alex still tells me I need to gear this bike! Love ya Alex however, the singlespeed experience is so damn fun and feels right at home in the heart of the Rocky mountains. 
Singlespeed makes ya strongfast! It is so true, as I have been feeling the return of endurance and stamina at a very nice rate. 
Gator, it will transform a bloke from 4 cylinder to V8 in record time.

Cog choices... Make certain the cog base is a minimum of 7mm wide so it does not damage the cassette driver. Stamped steel cogs are forboden!

Surly SS cogs
Endless bikes cogs for colors and they are groovy.

If you really want to gain strength, endurance and stamina, go SS sooner than later. Honestly, it is easy enough to throw the gears back on and go out on some rides. It is a quick enough swap that it can be done in an hour or less. Just keep the cable, shifter and RD assembled so re-installation is a no brainer.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm running mine ss right now. Super fun.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> I'm running mine ss right now. Super fun.
> 
> View attachment 1341845


See, Gator!! SS M/C's are fun playtime bikes...

Thankya, Steve!


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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

Have few questions for 27.5+ users here.
This is my first 27.5 wheel size bike as all my previous HT and FS bikes had 29" wheels. For my last Stumpjumper Evo I put Michelin Wild Enduro 29x2.4 and loved everything about them. 
For MC build I bought used Ibis 738 (35mm ID) alu wheelset with Rekon+ (27.5x2.8). Rear is slightly used and I'm thinking of getting Wild Enduro 27.5x2.6. 
Michelin is a full sized tire while Maxxis is known to run smaller than claimed.
Any drawbacks? Other tire options I should consider for mostly dry and rocky trails here in Utah? Don't want to go above 2.8 or below 2.6.
Thanks

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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Robik, I'll be perfectly honest, I have a thing for 3.0's. When I do run 2.8's, they are G-ones for street session. I usually cannot wait to change back to 3.0's sooner than later. 2.6 is the end of minus, so I have largely ignored the size. 

What I will not do is tell ya not to run 2.6 since the size might be more to your liking.

What part of Ooohtah?


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

What part of Utah? I'm in Utah valley for the next 48 hours. I'm partial to 3.0s too, but on a 35i rim, I think 2.6-2.8 max are the way to go.

I don't worry too much about maxxis being slightly narrower than some other tires. I like the rekon for northern utah, but I prefer something beefier for the rear in the rocks of Moab and St George. The rekon seems to want to spin on slickrock for some reason.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> What part of Utah? I'm in Utah valley for the next 48 hours. I'm partial to 3.0s too, but on a 35i rim, I think 2.6-2.8 max are the way to go.
> 
> I don't worry too much about maxxis being slightly narrower than some other tires. I like the rekon for northern utah, but I prefer something beefier for the rear in the rocks of Moab and St George. The rekon seems to want to spin on slickrock for some reason.


You're killin' me, Steve!! Damn good times have been had in those places over the years. *Squeezes Sunspot's front tire*

As for 35's, my trials bike has a 35 front and 48 rear for the good stuff. Who needs a seat when the bike has a 3" seat tube and no provision for a post to go there?


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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

hardtail party said:


> What part of Utah? I'm in Utah valley for the next 48 hours. I'm partial to 3.0s too, but on a 35i rim, I think 2.6-2.8 max are the way to go.
> 
> I don't worry too much about maxxis being slightly narrower than some other tires. I like the rekon for northern utah, but I prefer something beefier for the rear in the rocks of Moab and St George. The rekon seems to want to spin on slickrock for some reason.


I'm in Salt Lake. Any chance you'll be riding today? I'm be up for a quick spin after work.

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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Robik, every time I am in Salt Lake, I marvel at the good riding opportunities in the area. When I visit family, I make sure a bike or two are with to maximize the visit.


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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

RSD group ride is what we need! 

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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Could be a great time! Now I have to transport 5 RSD's... BBQ, ride, food, antics on bikes, bevvys, more bike ride...
Could this be memorable? Well, yaaaa!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I have a draper meetup tomorrow night at the bike park. Info on my Instagram.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

hardtail party said:


> I'm running mine ss right now. Super fun.
> 
> View attachment 1341845


Steve- which do you prefer for SS ? The SC Chameleon or the Middle Child? I got a Surly KM with a 67 degree Headtube and a 73 degree seat tube that I assumed at the time would be my SS rig. That being said, I am LOVING the Middle Child- can't get enough of it.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I much prefer the mc over the chameleon SS. In factz this is my favorite setup for the mc. I need a higher stack though. I may go with taller ride bars with a 130 fork. Manuals are tricky to initiate right now


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> I much prefer the mc over the chameleon SS. In factz this is my favorite setup for the mc. I need a higher stack though. I may go with taller ride bars with a 130 fork. Manuals are tricky to initiate right now


One thing I cannot stand is the equivalent of using the front axle for a handlebar so a 150mm Pike was enlisted for my MC. Bar is FSA Gradient 25mm rise, 6° up, 9° back on a Straitline Amp 70mm stem. Manuals, those are effortless as are wheelies from here to down the street.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My GF has been riding her FS bike a lot now that we have better weather on Vancouver Island, but I'm still getting her out for some hardtail rides on the MC. :thumbsup:


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## ratmanms (Jan 17, 2014)

BansheeRune said:


> I have a Sarge V3, built out as a mid fat that rides like magic on 3.8 FBR's for summer dirtin, Van Helga 4.0's for winter antics. I can say as an being owned by both a MiddleChild and a Sergeant V3, they are vastly different personalities but both are the most wonderful bikes on earth.
> 
> The V3... I have been thinking on 29+ with a firm expectation of 3.0 or 3.25 and not even thinking on anything with less volume. As it stands, the FBR's are lighter than the FBF in the same size and are far more reliable in terms of traction, confidence and their ability to not wash out unexpectedly. I do have the parts to make it a one speed automatic as well. SS gearing to be determined...
> 
> ...


well put and I agree totally


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> I much prefer the mc over the chameleon SS. In factz this is my favorite setup for the mc. I need a higher stack though. I may go with taller ride bars with a 130 fork. Manuals are tricky to initiate right now


you know that you can roll the bars for some rise instead of drop!


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## stm32disco (Jun 7, 2017)

*Winter in July*

Since it's a super-rainy Canada Day where I am, I thought it was a good idea to test my winter wheel setup on the MC.

I have studded 29x2.8 Terrene Cake Eaters that I use in the winter on a 29+ bike. These tires are not a true 2.8, more like a 2.6. See here for how they measure on i45 rims:

https://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/29-x-2-8-options-growing-1091075.html#post14458271

These tires measure exactly 2.6 (67mm) on i29 rims and fit with plenty of clearance on the MC. The sliders are all the way back in these pictures. Pedro's tire lever for scale.


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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

Trying my MC in 29er mode with Fox 36 GRIP2 set at 160mm. Might swap the spring for 150mm later. Schwalbe NN/HD 29x2.6 fits with mud room on 30mm ID rims









Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

hardtail party said:


> I much prefer the mc over the chameleon SS. In factz this is my favorite setup for the mc. I need a higher stack though. I may go with taller ride bars with a 130 fork. Manuals are tricky to initiate right now


Biggest problem in MTB & gravel industry right now - low stack , short wheelbase , reach made for elves .

Time to modernize and make some bikes bigger . Low stack is a recipe for otb - I don't care how good of a rider you are.

Kona is really the only company to see this and their entire lineup is made up of long reach high stack.

I like the wheelbase on the MC and the reach - stack could be a bit higher .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I wouldn't say no to higher stack on bikes. I see that happening a bit on newer models so it might catch on over time. The goods news is there are options for higher stack so it's not like you can't find any and with high rise bars you can make a lower stack bike fit well even if you need the bars higher.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> I need a higher stack though. I may go with taller ride bars with a 130 fork.


I've got a 2nd set of OddMone bars you could try out if you want. Instant Stack Height Enhancer...


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## RookieOne (Jul 2, 2020)

I've been thinking about getting a middle child since seeing the bike on hardtailparty, but I was hoping to get some feedback from people who already have one. 

I'm currently on a Yelli Screamy, which I've loved, but it's getting old. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with both bike and would be able to compare them?

I've been wanting to retire the Yelli for a while and to be honest my first choice would have been to buy a Canfield EPO, but I'm not sure if that frame is every coming back at this point... I've also decided that if I get a new bike I want something really special, so I'm thinking about the Ti MC. 

Trails around here (VA, MD), that I ride my hardtail on, are mostly intermediate single track so the MC might be a little more bike than needed, but I do love an aggressive hardtail, but maybe it's too aggressive for the riding I'm mostly going to do on it. Also, I'd be building the bike as a geared 29er with 140mm fork. 

Any feedback or thoughts would be appreciated. 

Thanks!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

RookieOne said:


> Any feedback or thoughts would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


My GF has a steel MC and she will happily crank out a 50K non-technical ride on it as well as hit BC black diamond trails. So I wouldn't be afraid of the geo being too aggressive. When you need it that slack front end has your back and when you don't it rides just fine on more chill terrain.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

RookieOne said:


> Any feedback or thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!


I agree- bike is fine on tamer trails and doesn't need to be dialed up to 11 from a technical standpoint.

I thought I was going to want the MC for the harder trails and keep my Surly Instigator in working order for the easier rides. Once the MC was built I took it to my local ride for a shakedown. Terrain is probably the most mellow ride I do. Tech is low, swoop hard pack with some punchy climbs.

COMPLETELY surprised how the bike felt- especially with 2.8 tires. Rode really well- not an XC rocket but fine for the playful rides I do. The traction of plus tires.... insane.

My son is now the proud owner of my Surly Instigator. I ride the MC 100% of the time. It is a great all-rounder but it does shine on chunky, technical terrain.

Depending upon your size consider the steel version. Steve (Hardtail Party) certainly sees a difference between the Steel and TI. I find the steel version on par with the Surly from a compliance perspective. This is coming from a guy that is not fat but festively plump... okay fat but I am working on it.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

NJ Gator said:


> I agree- bike is fine on tamer trails and doesn't need to be dialed up to 11 from a technical standpoint.
> 
> I thought I was going to want the MC for the harder trails and keep my Surly Instigator in working order for the easier rides. Once the MC was built I took it to my local ride for a shakedown. Terrain is probably the most mellow ride I do. Tech is low, swoop hard pack with some punchy climbs.
> 
> ...


Where you ride in NJ?

Have you taken it to Tourne ? Ringwood? Rockbeds

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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Where you ride in NJ?
> 
> Have you taken it to Tourne ? Ringwood? Rockbeds
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Not Ringwood yet- Chimney Rock, Lewis Morris, High Bridge and Six Mile (hometown mellow trails mentioned). I am limited in knowledge of ringwood to the old race course- don't know the trails by the school or Lot C like I used to.

I LOVE Mahlon- grew up near there and really want to hit that soon. Also want to hit Jungle as I have never been there.

Are you interested in checking out the bike? Let me know we can connect and you could through a leg over it.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

NJ Gator said:


> Not Ringwood yet- Chimney Rock, Lewis Morris, High Bridge and Six Mile (hometown mellow trails mentioned). I am limited in knowledge of ringwood to the old race course- don't know the trails by the school or Lot C like I used to.
> 
> I LOVE Mahlon- grew up near there and really want to hit that soon. Also want to hit Jungle as I have never been there.
> 
> Are you interested in checking out the bike? Let me know we can connect and you could through a leg over it.


I might be - maybe I'll meet @ 6 mr - Need a Mahlon tour too. 
Ring wood is the [email protected]!

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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Let me know! You got me pining for Ringwood now... ;-)


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

NJ Gator said:


> Let me know! You got me pining for Ringwood now... ;-)


Mountain bike fest is there every year - once you ride RW you'll wished you lived closer.

I'd go only w people who know it well though - last time I was there I would up in NY on someone's property lol.






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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

RookieOne said:


> I've been thinking about getting a middle child since seeing the bike on hardtailparty, but I was hoping to get some feedback from people who already have one.
> 
> I'm currently on a Yelli Screamy, which I've loved, but it's getting old. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with both bike and would be able to compare them?
> 
> ...


My MC is one hell of a good experience. Street, dirt, it just does a very nice job of it all. Handling is excellent at any speed. Trackstands for hours, you bet. Hardtail mentions the difficulty of initiating a manual, with my trialsy bars on a 70mm stem with 40mm spacers to make the stack right, it is effortless. Climbing, I live in the Rocky Mountains and have zero complaints in terms of quality climbing while seated on a singlespeed. I do hate slowpokes drowning me out of my powerband however, I can usually find an opportune place to power past. I also enjoy the reach for a good position that works well for my purposes. 
My choice of setup is a 150mm travel Pike with i45's shod with 3.0's cause I don't want to return to minus unless we're talking KOXX Red Sky.
Aluminum frames were sposta arrive today, by the way.



vikb said:


> My GF has a steel MC and she will happily crank out a 50K non-technical ride on it as well as hit BC black diamond trails. So I wouldn't be afraid of the geo being too aggressive. When you need it that slack front end has your back and when you don't it rides just fine on more chill terrain.


I am looking forward to reports involving your new bike as well as the Mrs. on her MC, and don't leave out the MegakewlKrampus...


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## AJ Morris (Jul 4, 2020)

I was looking for something rowdier than my XC bike, so I picked up a steel Middlechild 29er this year. Initially, I was worried about being "over-biked" on the singletrack stuff I ride, and it definitely took a few rides to find my rhythm. Once I got my brain rewired, it was something of a revelation. Ever watched a snake "flow" over rough ground? That's the best analogy I can come up with.

More than anything else, it took some time to work out how to climb the really steep, narrow switchbacks with that slack head angle. However, once I got my technique sorted out, this bike climbs incredibly well. 

On my trails at least, I really like this bike as a 29er, but If I were ever to go back to Moab, I'd be running 27.5 plus. I think the 140mm fork is about perfect on this frame, and for my purposes, I bet I even could get away with a 120 or 130 pretty easily. 

The Middlechild has demolished a lot of my preconceptions about different geometries and what they are capable of. I always assumed a bike like this was primarily for charging downhill and boosting off every little feature. It came as something of a surprse to find it was also better than my XC bike in the slow, twisty and-or-technical stuff. 

A friend asked me to describe how the Middlechild feels, and the best answer I could come up with is "enduro at the front, dirt jump/BMX at the back." I'm a mediocre rider at best, and It's easily the most fun and the most capable hardtail I've ridden over the widest variety of terrain. Alex really set the bar high with this design.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

AJ, there is nothing wrong with being "over biked"! I cannot say enough about the ride and performance of the MiddleChild. Since I am addicted to 3.fuvkyeah, I cannot bring myself to go 29-/+ with my bike. 

As for the answer I offer up, dirt racer. Simply put, everywhere I have taken a ride has been a blast and a blessing. 

Slow, twisty... I get trialsy every opportunity I get! With 3.0's and a light riding style, I can run 10-12 psi, pivot the bike in a hair pin and keep on riding. Of course, the front tire does squish and wrinkle when I pivot, but the traction because the tire forms to the surface and never rims out. The occasional sidehop, YUS, I do em frequently, frankly! I sidehop some ledges that are 2.5-3" elevation with ease. This leads to the i45 being a great choice in rim size. My pure trials has a 48mm rear for a good reason.

Welcome to the MC world, AJ! Gratz!! You are in for treat after treat, not to mention adventureville...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My GF stoked to ride her MC today. :thumbsup:

My buddy ordered a MC that should be here soon and another friend ordered a RSD Wildcat.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

vikb said:


> My GF stoked to ride her MC today. :thumbsup:
> 
> My buddy ordered a MC that should be here soon and another friend ordered a RSD Wildcat.


That is one happy gurl, Vik! Good to see the two of ya having some really enjoyable rides.

The Wildcat is a very competent full squish plusser. The suspension is silky smooth and functional. The friend of yours will really appreciate it.


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## AJ Morris (Jul 4, 2020)

BansheeRune said:


> AJ, there is nothing wrong with being "over biked"! I cannot say enough about the ride and performance of the MiddleChild. Since I am addicted to 3.fuvkyeah, I cannot bring myself to go 29-/+ with my bike.
> 
> As for the answer I offer up, dirt racer. Simply put, everywhere I have taken a ride has been a blast and a blessing.
> 
> ...


Hee hee! Until I got the Middlechild, 2.35" were my "wide" tires!

I'll admit I went for the 29" build mostly out of familiarity. Back in the day, 27.5 didn't exist, so I went straight from 26" to 29" and basically stayed there. Also, given where and how I ride, I've never found 27.5 to offer any real advantage. Or maybe that's just because I haven't ridden 'em enough to feel out the differences.

I think I was worried a bit about how well this bike would handle the slow stuff, or perhaps "erase" a lot of the trail. Happily those fears were groundless. Thus far I've found it to be an incredibly versatile "all-rounder" with a really engaging ride.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

The only thing that held me back from 29 is the fact that I am not willing to give up the ride and feel of 3.0. 27.5+ 3.0 is near the same od as 29 x 2.3/2.4 so rollover is the same but as I tested 27.5 and 29 plus, I found that 27.5 felt more nimble and flickable. So as an advantage, 27.5+ has the rollover and flickability for play time so, bonus! I do tend to get trialsy and need the maneuverability. 

Slow stuff handling is only on the rider, not the bike. Again, getting trialsy is a requirement of each ride so a slow section that allows for tap, gap and sidehop are welcomed with my beloved MiddleChild. Part of that issue is the singlespeed thing...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Just joined up, size large Middlechild in safety orange, would have gotten aluminum but the cleats were sold out till next season.

But hey, steel is real, that extra 1/2# ain’t nothin but a thang 😊

So far I got a Bomber Z2 140mm fork, Box Four wide range 8sp, Chromag cockpit, some short cranks, a set of Spykes from the dust bin, still contemplating wheels ... I’d love me some 26” x 2.8, but I have a set of 27.5 that need a home.

I was thinking fixed post with QR, just for old times sake 🙄


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> Just joined up, size large Middlechild in new black, would have gotten aluminum but the cleats were sold out till next season.
> 
> But hey, steel is real, that extra 1/2# ain't nothin but a thang ?
> 
> ...


Gratz, Ben! Droppers are great but the weight penalty for something I seldom utilize is an expense that a Ritchey Classic does just fine at resolving. 
The ride experience is amazing, you're in for a treat.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

BansheeRune said:


> Gratz, Ben! Droppers are great but the weight penalty for something I seldom utilize is an expense that a Ritchey Classic does just fine at resolving.
> The ride experience is amazing, you're in for a treat.


It is so, so so so good having this forum! I found on my last ride I seemed to use my dropper in only specific circumstances. That being said- I was more spread out (which I feel is how BR prefers his ride). My ride is a bit more compact and upright (steeper sa) and I love the ride- that being said I use my dropper constantly- like constantly. To a point I am considering purchasing a 2nd as a back-up. I just like the flex for cornering and popping up and over things.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> Just joined up, size large Middlechild in safety orange, would have gotten aluminum but the cleats were sold out till next season.


You sold the last hardtail because it was beating you up too much. What do you figure will be different with the steel MC?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Different purpose: pump, jump, trials, flow, winter muck.

The Pistola is my all around bike now, the Mega isn't getting ridden quite as much.



vikb said:


> You sold the last hardtail because it was beating you up too much. What do you figure will be different with the steel MC?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NJ Gator said:


> It is so, so so so good having this forum! I found on my last ride I seemed to use my dropper in only specific circumstances. That being said- I was more spread out (which I feel is how BR prefers his ride). My ride is a bit more compact and upright (steeper sa) and I love the ride- that being said I use my dropper constantly- like constantly. To a point I am considering purchasing a 2nd as a back-up. I just like the flex for cornering and popping up and over things.


I use the 70° angle to my advantage to bring up a stupid high cadence as needed. I ride with my seat at 80-85% leg extension to keep sufficient space to get trialsy, play and just plain feel good. Love my tennis ball yellow bike!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I'm sure I'll break down and add one, my other bikes have 210mm droppers that I use constantly, but this bike has a different purpose so we'll see how it goes.



BansheeRune said:


> Gratz, Ben! Droppers are great but the weight penalty for something I seldom utilize is an expense that a Ritchey Classic does just fine at resolving.
> The ride experience is amazing, you're in for a treat.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'm sure I'll break down and add one, my other bikes have 210mm droppers that I use constantly, but this bike has a different purpose so we'll see how it goes.


The dropper is certainly utilitarian and many peeps cannot ride without em. I do get that one. It can be handy to tweak on the fly, indeed.
As you get to know the MiddleChild, the tweaks and such will be quite enjoyable. Look forward to hearing the reports.


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## slovinggood (Mar 5, 2017)

Anyone know if the decals on the frame are above or below the paint? Really like the geo and lines of this bike but the type selections and decals are not my cup of tea... especially on the top tube where you have to look at all ride long. The matte black frame with black decals looks nice but I like the turquoise blue more (which I have a soft spot for after my robin's egg Surly Wednesday of yore).


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

slovinggood said:


> Anyone know if the decals on the frame are above or below the paint? Really like the geo and lines of this bike but the type selections and decals are not my cup of tea... especially on the top tube where you have to look at all ride long. The matte black frame with black decals looks nice but I like the turquoise blue more (which I have a soft spot for after my robin's egg Surly Wednesday of yore).


I don't think you can take them off, but just roll the bike down to a sign shop and they'll get you some vinyl cut in a close colour. You can cover the offending graphics in plain or come up with your own custom decal design to replace them.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Analysis paralysis, anyone care to comment?

I got two frame choices; yes, there are many more than two, but these are the two I have in hand.

Chromag Stylus Sz M-L, 140mm fork (160mm std)
RSD Middlechild Sz L, 140mm fork

(Note, geo adjusted for shorter fork on Stylus)

Bb drop: 30/40
RC: 419/415-430
Bb Ht: ~309/315
HA: 65/64.5
SA: 77/74
Reach: ~470/465
ETT: ~620/642

More data:
MC has adjustable dropouts, is designed around the 140mm fork, and takes up to a 27.5 x 2.8 tire.
Stylus frame is lighter, fixed drop outs, designed around d a 160mm fork, and takes up to a 27.5 x 2.6

The MC is safety orange 
The Stylus is a gorgeous candy apple red

Okay, let’s hear it ...


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

For HT i prefer at least 2.8 or 3.0 in 27.5 and i do not need 160 for sure.


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## AJ Morris (Jul 4, 2020)

RSD has a threaded BB vs. press-fit on the Chromag...

Something else that strikes me is the 77* seat post angle on the Chromag. I'm trying to envision how well that would work or how comfortable it would be. Speaking for myself, I find 74* to be about right on a hardtail. Of course I'm short, and don't need a lot of seat post height either...

I'd agree that the ability to run 2.8" tires should be a factor.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Nurse Ben

I agree with the comments as well- buying the MC I thought I would run 2.6’s... the bike came with 2.8’s installed so I figured what the heck and I never looked back.

The seat tube angle is jumping out to me- I would check to see if the SA at 77 is with 160mm fork- if so it probably is steeper with a 140mm and therefore not that different from the MC. Effective SA, in my opinion is easier to make slacker with an off-set seatpost. I say that saying I really like the steeper SA on the MC ( I run the post in the middle of the rails). I feel like it puts me in a position to charge obstacles. Historically I ran SS a lot and always slammed my seat back to get as much weight over the rear wheel


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> Stylus frame is lighter, fixed drop outs, designed around d a 160mm fork, and takes up to a 27.5 x 2.6







JKW's medium Stlus was ~7.1lbs [0:11 in video] and the medium MC is listed as 6lb 10oz. The comments I've heard about the Stylus are more along the "tank" line of things and even Chromag says "...built around our most robust chromoly tubeset...." and "...and need a bike that will stand up to plenty of abuse and last through the apocalypse..."

A few ounces either way don't matter, but don't expect the Stylus to be lighter or have better ride quality than the MC.

That red Stylus finish looks amazing and Chromag has more cachet than RSD, but that's it. I'd take the MC over it for everything else.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

AJ Morris said:


> RSD has a threaded BB vs. press-fit on the Chromag...


^This is incorrect. I own the Stylus - it is threaded.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Carl Mega said:


> ^This is incorrect. I own the Stylus - it is threaded.


Yup. Most Chromags these days are PF, but not all.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

vikb said:


> Yup. Most Chromags these days are PF, but not all.


As you wrote earlier, the Stylus tubeset is burly. Awesomely burly, not dead but stout. In my 35 years of riding, it's my favorite bike - period. But I knew exactly what I wanted and targeted it very precisely. Oh thank you for linking JWK video - he as a few more on Stylus and they're cool and he gets it - pretty rad.

^Based on that review, you'd probably think I'd immediately recommend this frame to Ben...but he's doing something different from what the frame was designed around. Stylus is a 160/170 bike - but Ben wants to run a 140 fork w/ 26x.2.8 tires. I think dropping the A2C some 30-40mm is a bridge too far... I suspect you'd be losing some of the magic and that already steep STA is going to go steeper. All of which is fine if you want that resulting geo for what you are targeting...but it's not mainline.

Oh - Ben, I believe, literally has both frames in hand, so it'd be interesting to see actual weights. Not a contest or relevant when in that category but I love seeing how close mfgrs are to their posted weights.

Best of luck tho - today's a new bike day (FS) for me too!


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## areeves08 (Jan 7, 2020)

Anyone running a Fox 36 150mm air shaft on their MC? I've ridden a handful of times on the 160mm version and know a shorted A2C would tighten up the steering. Looking at RSD's recommendations, they say max A2C is 550. My 160mm has an A2C of 567, so dropping down to the 150 still leaves me out of spec by 7mm. Is that close enough, or will I be left wanting more?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Carl Mega said:


> As you wrote earlier, the Stylus tubeset is burly. Awesomely burly, not dead but stout. In my 35 years of riding, it's my favorite bike - period. But I knew exactly what I wanted and targeted it very precisely. Oh thank you for linking JWK video - he as a few more on Stylus and they're cool and he gets it - pretty rad.
> 
> ^Based on that review, you'd probably think I'd immediately recommend this frame to Ben...but he's doing something different from what the frame was designed around. Stylus is a 160/170 bike - but Ben wants to run a 140 fork w/ 26x.2.8 tires. I think dropping the A2C some 30-40mm is a bridge too far... I suspect you'd be losing some of the magic and that already steep STA is going to go steeper. All of which is fine if you want that resulting geo for what you are targeting...but it's not mainline.
> 
> ...


I'll get a weight on both and post it.

I totally agree, a bridge too far, but damn I want this frame, it is just about the most beautiful paint job I've seen on a factory frame.

The MC will also be more versatile, adjustable CS, wider tires, etc...

The Stylus SA would be 77-78deg, and crazy steep when sagged, so probably not ideal.

I suppose a custom powdercoat could be in order ...

What FS bike did you get?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Carl Mega said:


> Oh thank you for linking JWK video - he as a few more on Stylus and they're cool and he gets it - pretty rad.


No problem. JKW is a bike magician. I basically don't consider what he does and what I do the same sport. 

For NB he puts a Trust Message fork on the Stylus in this video: 




Sorry....let's get back to RSD MC content!


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## AJ Morris (Jul 4, 2020)

Carl Mega said:


> ^This is incorrect. I own the Stylus - it is threaded.


Whoops! My bad! I was looking into a couple Chromag bikes this year and they had press-fit, so I just jumped to a conclusion.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

areeves08 said:


> Anyone running a Fox 36 150mm air shaft on their MC? I've ridden a handful of times on the 160mm version and know a shorted A2C would tighten up the steering. Looking at RSD's recommendations, they say max A2C is 550. My 160mm has an A2C of 567, so dropping down to the 150 still leaves me out of spec by 7mm. Is that close enough, or will I be left wanting more?


7mm isn't a dealbreaker...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

vikb said:


> No problem. JKW is a bike magician. I basically don't consider what he does and what I do the same sport.
> 
> For NB he puts a Trust Message fork on the Stylus in this video:
> 
> ...


Actually, that's a Chromag Dr. Hawk with a Shout, much more aggressive geo and a ton more travel ... he also rode it single speed; that guy is so much better than me!

The Shout is a great fork, should have been the first fork Trust released ... the Message is okay, but not as good if you get big air or go fast over brake bumps.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Actually, that's a Chromag Dr. Hawk with a Shout, much more aggressive geo and a ton more travel ... he also rode it single speed; that guy is so much better than me!
> 
> The Shout is a great fork, should have been the first fork Trust released ... the Message is okay, but not as good if you get big air or go fast over brake bumps.


Incorrect, JKW has a Stylus not a Doctahawk.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> Actually, that's a Chromag Dr. Hawk with a Shout, much more aggressive geo and a ton more travel ... he also rode it single speed; that guy is so much better than me!











Nope. He has never had a Docta. That's a Stylus and he put a Message on it.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> it is just about the most beautiful paint job I've seen on a factory frame.
> 
> What FS bike did you get?


That red is amazing. I missed my chance to get that. The new bike is a Canfield Balance LE, pretty stoked so far.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

nitrousjunky said:


> Incorrect, JKW has a Stylus not a Doctahawk.


My mistake, I heard him mention the Doctahawk ....

So my Bomber Z2 140mm fork showed up last night, MC frame gets here Monday.

... and yeah, the color of the Stylus is gorgeous, so I'll probably try to replicate that

with the local powder shop; silver base, clear red topcoat, or maybe a gold/bronze base ...

Build to date, mix of new and parts bin:

MC, orange, sz large
Bomber Z2 27.5 140/44
Fixed post, beater seat, QR binder
Box Four 8sp drivetrain
GX Eagle 165mm cranks
TRP Spyke Brakes
DT Swiss/Scraper i45 wheels, HD 2.8/DHF 2.8
Chromag cockpit


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Carl Mega said:


> That red is amazing. I missed my chance to get that. The new bike is a Canfield Balance LE, pretty stoked so far.


Wut, you got a new one already?? I thought they were still in a container or stuck in China ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Woops, I stand corrected, that is a Stylus, I got caught up in him talking about the Docta Hawk. Funny that he'd put a Message on a Stylus, the A-C is quite low in that set up, maybe it would work but that's a pedal scraper and a very steeps STA.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Wut, you got a new one already?? I thought they were still in a container or stuck in China ...


Heh. Taiwan FTW! I probably have the first customer built one.

https://forums.mtbr.com/canfield/2020-canfield-balance-limited-edition-1127187.html#post14861911

Apologies for the drift.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

A riser bar and some spacers under the stem will work wonders.

If the stack is too tall, shorter folks or those who prefer a lower stack height are left out in the cold.

OTB is not the function of a low stack height, OTB is the result of a riding mistake.

Ya da ya da



TheNatureBoy said:


> Biggest problem in MTB & gravel industry right now - low stack , short wheelbase , reach made for elves .
> 
> Time to modernize and make some bikes bigger . Low stack is a recipe for otb - I don't care how good of a rider you are.
> 
> ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Anyone used a Dropper as long as a One Up 210mm?

How much actual insert did you get?

Anyone have this Dropper ^ and willing to pull a measurement from bb center to seat rail, with post slammed?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Haven't used a dropper as of yet. Going to start researching them again tho'. Have no use for the variety that only have specific height points in their travel and am interested in the type that set anywhere in the travel range.


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

I hit this drop on the MC yesterday for the first time. I've hit it multiple times on the Ripmo but took a while to work up the courage on the HT.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Building up my ti MC singlespeed


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

It's about time, Steve!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

mblittle said:


> I hit this drop on the MC yesterday for the first time. I've hit it multiple times on the Ripmo but took a while to work up the courage on the HT.


NICE! That's exactly what the middle child is for.


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## stm32disco (Jun 7, 2017)

hardtail party said:


> Building up my ti MC singlespeed


Do you know if the Ti and steel frames have the same tire clearance? What's the inner width of those rims?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> NICE! That's exactly what the middle child is for.


MC is for all play time activities! Rail trails to trials.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

stm32disco said:


> Do you know if the Ti and steel frames have the same tire clearance? What's the inner width of those rims?


They sure look like it to me. If they were both painted, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference apart (aside from the bigger seat tube on the ti).

These are 45i rims with 3.0 purgatories.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

“Orange Betty” arrives tonight ... got everything I need for the build, but I gotta decide on the fork. Trust Message to start, which will disable my Pistola, if that works then I’ll send back the Z2.

I’m contemplating purple/orange or yellow/orange or all the colors of the rainbow.

Edit: Starting my build, fit a 27.5 Scraper i45 with a HD 2.8, fit was surprisingly tight, 1/4-3/8" clearance to the sides and a touch more to the forward portion of the yoke. Moving the drops didn't improve the fit, so it's not exactly a 2.8 compatible frame. I can run it, mud and snow clearance will be insufficient, so I think a narrower rim is in order so it may be time for a rebuild ...

Nice light frame, surprisingly so, good finish, though the slider portion of the frame is painted which is gonna cause some drop out movement over time, so I'll have to watch that.

Frame includes a Cane Creek Forty headset, nice touch, I figured it'd be something a lot less quality.

The only non QR seat post binder I had that fit is purple Hope leftover from muni days, must be destiny, so you know where this is going ....


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

What's your update Ben? I'm expecting a pictorial diary


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Carl Mega said:


> What's your update Ben? I'm expecting a pictorial diary


Me too! We want pictures!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I got stalled tryng to decide what to use for parts, at first I was gonna break down an FS bike and try to consolidate, finally decided to just build it the way I planned and worry less about having N + 1.

I'll build it this weekend &#8230; unless I decide to get it powder coated.

&#8230; as he hangs up with the powder coater. Mmmm, candy red with sparkles 



Carl Mega said:


> What's your update Ben? I'm expecting a pictorial diary


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Ben's just holding out on us... We see how you are, Ben!!

Powder coater??? hmmm.

I do consider House of Color, admittedly.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

So I got impatient and started building, some of my parts didn't work/didn't arrive, so I did a pick and pull on the Megatrail, and in the process more or less stripped the Megatrail 

and so, the Megatrail frame is for sale ?

Shout and XT 12 speed goes to my wife's Shuttle, frame set and shock go on the chopping block.

I still have some things to do on the MC, change wheel offset, install drivetrain, and set up brakes, probably go for a ride tonight when it cools off.

I was able to get a OneUp 210mm Dropper fully inserted, seat rail to pedal spindle is 34", which just works with 165mm cranks. I'll likely get some Trail Craft 152mm cranks, so I'll have no issues with using a long dropper.

... and the orange, it's not overwhelming at all, going with a red trim package ?

Build so far:

MC frame, Sz large, safety orange
Bomber Z2 27.5 140mm/44mm
RF 35mm stem, Ratdog 35mm x 35mm riser bar, Foam grips
TRP Quadiem brakes
GX Eagle 165mm cranks, 26t zero offset chainring; ordering 4mm offset.
OneUp 210mm Dropper, Wolftooth lire droper, Brooks Cambium cutout seat
DT Swiss 350/Scraper i45/DHF 2.8/HD 2.8; ordering a DHF 2.8 to replace to HD


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Gratz, Ben!

Looks like an adventure factory...


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Looks cool Ben. So you are committing to 27.5+ vs. the 26+ you originally mentioned?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

26+ would fall under fugeddabouddit, lest the BB is a +25/35mm or perhaps 130mm cranks.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

Nice...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Carl Mega said:


> Looks cool Ben. So you are committing to 27.5+ vs. the 26+ you originally mentioned?


Decided on 27.5 cuz I have a wheelset, not sure if I'll go with 26" as it's kinda like building in obsolescence, but I will probably rebuild the wheels for a narrower width and reduce tire size.

Took her for a quick spin this morning, rides fine, Box 8sp shifts great, but I may want more range ... at least if I want to do any climbing. Bike rides short which is good for my intent (playing, trials), feels firm out back like a hardtail, no complaints. I love the long dropper


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

*Okay not specific to the RSD MC but wondering if anyone else is sick like me?*

I am posting this here simply because this is the thread I feel individuals "know" me the best.... Also this is a first world problem and it goes without saying I am fortunate to be able to make the purchases I am about to describe. Anyone else buy "high risk parts" as back-ups? What do I mean by this? Well I am constantly struggling with my weight and at my heaviest well I tend to break parts (not frequently but usually at inopportune times- prior to COVD-19 I would go camping at a lot of Mtn Bike fests). Therefore I tend to purchase "spares" for parts that could really set me back. As many of you know, I bought a fully built Middle Child. Hats off to Alex- I think the build is a tremendous value for the money. So I started to look into parts I thought I may want to have on hand. So far I purchased a spare Duroc 40 wheel set (found on eBay for a _*very*_ reasonable cost and I plan to at minimum run it as my SS set-up if I don't need to swap them out with the OEM- also they are all the wheels I need), a spare set of slider drop outs (purchased at the time of buying the bike), and most recently a KS Lev Int dropper (again eBay, low cost and allows to swap). I won't go so far as to buy a second fork, but I will buy a 160mm air spring for a 27.5 140mm Pike I already own (realizing I may need to run a smaller 2.8- lie a Rekon) Finally, I am probably going to buy a spare SLX rear derailleur and chain. So- am I being a bit nutty? At this point the dropper is overkill- but I use it a ton and I think being without a dropper for weeks on end waiting for a repair would be a bummer. I should also say my budget for these parts comes from bikes I sell- somehow I feel that helps me to justify it. So just curious- am I alone in this practice?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

NJ Gator said:


> So just curious- am I alone in this practice?


I have enough spare tires I could re-shoe all my bikes at least once if not twice. Some of that is wanting spares just in case and some of that is wanting to try different rubber and I generally don't kill tires fast so it takes me awhile to work through the backlog.

I also am trying to standardize the fleet so all my MTBs now run 29er wheels, RF cranks, most run Hope hubs, all my new drivetrains are Shimano 11 speed, etc... So in a pinch I can steal parts from one bike to make another work.

I have a pretty deep spares bin with older parts I am not sure I'll use again, but if I really needed a drivetrain I have a well worn SRAM XX1 setup that I could use for example. I figure I'll either use these parts myself or they'll get donated to a friend's bike as I do a lot of wrenching on other folks' bikes.

So no I am not buying extra parts [less tires] for bikes just in case, but I do have enough cross compatible parts and old spare parts it would be pretty hard for me to not have a MTB to ride if I was willing to swap stuff around.

Coming back to the MC I kept the 275er wheels from my old winter FS bike partially because I was sort of interested in trying 27+ on the new winter HT and partially because I knew they'd be good backup wheels for my GF's MC if she trashed a wheel and still wanted to ride it.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Yeah I hear ya on the drivetrain stuff- For past bike I painted myself into a corner on getting too much 'old-standard" stuff (SRAM x9, 8 speed) and having to hunt for shifters and deraillers etc..

I want to keep up on the times- even if that means SLX level and just enough to keep things going at a reasonable cost.

Gone are the days when I would consider spending the $$$ on high end parts (like King Hubs) only to be phased out.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

NJ Gator said:


> Yeah I hear ya on the drivetrain stuff- For past bike I painted myself into a corner on getting too much 'old-standard" stuff (SRAM x9, 8 speed) and having to hunt for shifters and deraillers etc..


I figure Shimano 11 speed is easy to get and it's just getting cheaper as 12 speed, 13 speed, etc.. comes out. At some point 12 speed will be cheap when 14 speed is all the rage. So I'll just keep moving up with the times every few years, but trying to stay a bit behind what is popular and the most $$$.

When I do transition to a different drivetrain one of my bikes will get all the old Shimano 11 speed stuff and burn through those parts until they are gone and then move onto whatever I settle on next. 

I'm not trying to be the retrogrouch running 7 speed with friction shifters forever! :eekster::nono:


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## areeves08 (Jan 7, 2020)

A quick update on my MC. I swapped the 160mm air shaft for a 140mm and the change in handling has been great. I didn't mind the steering before, but the responsiveness is much improved, as has my takeoff/landing in jump sections. The combination of 27.5x3.0R/29x2.6F is working extremely well and the difference in height it minimal. I'm not used to the plus size tires, so cautiously dropping pressures to find the right ride. Currently running 14psi in the rear. Also thinking about adding Cush Core/Rimpact for future entrance in the hardtail category of the WV Enduro series. Coming from MT420 brakes, the SLX M7120 are killer stoppers. All in all, no complaints on the MC.


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## lars-atx (Sep 18, 2019)

*chainring options*

will a 32t absolute black oval chainring fit on a MC? working on building my ride up and wanted to go oval.

thanks.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Shoot Alex a message- he'll get back to you pretty quick. I believe the stock RF is a 30 tooth


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Gator, you're not alone in having spares on the shelf.
I have many fresh components that are on the shelf. The bin was ravaged for the Sarge III build so nearly decimated.
I have as many tires as Imelda Marcos has shoes! Well, not quite that many, you get the idea tho'.

My MC has a 150mm Pike for a better stance and slightly slacker geometry along with a more appreciable BB height.

Frankly, Alex has been running the best bike source known to exist! The guy is very responsive, honest and takes care of his clients. RSD has clients, other bike outfits have customers... There, I Said It!!
With six RSD's infesting my house, I have yet to have any form of warranty issue with any of them. No other bike in their class comes close in any way, be it component package, price or shipping.

areeves08, The 3.0/2.6 sounds very BMX like! Long fork and tire setup should be a hoot. Still, I cannot bring myself to pay for 2.6 yet. 3.0 just does the magic in magic carpet ride.


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## areeves08 (Jan 7, 2020)

lars-atx said:


> will a 32t absolute black oval chainring fit on a MC? working on building my ride up and wanted to go oval.
> 
> thanks.


I run a 32T AB oval with no issue.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Maybe as a zero offset, a 32t might fit, but I doubt it. The yoke is designed for plus tires so it's wide, combined with short chainstay it's quite compact, ie wide near the BB.

For perspective, I tried a 26t round 6mm offset chainring with a Shimano DM crank and I had at most 2mm clearance, an oval 26t 6mm offset was a no go. I ended up running a 26t round zero offset which has room to spare.

32 oval is pretty large, equal to a ~ round 36t.

Why such a large chainring?



lars-atx said:


> will a 32t absolute black oval chainring fit on a MC? working on building my ride up and wanted to go oval.
> 
> thanks.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

What crank, chainring offset, and how much did you need to space over your BB.



areeves08 said:


> I run a 32T AB oval with no issue.


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## areeves08 (Jan 7, 2020)

Nurse Ben said:


> What crank, chainring offset, and how much did you need to space over your BB.


I'm running the Shimano HG+ 32T on the FC-M7120-1 with a 55mm chainline. It looks like one spacer on my Wheels Mfg BB and another on the crank. I used a micrometer to check chainline.


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## lars-atx (Sep 18, 2019)

I messaged Alex, he responded that it is a tight fit, and I could add a 1mm BB spacer on the drive side would help. 

It looks like I currently have about 1.5mm clearance without the spacer.

As far as gearing, in reading about going from round to oval, many suggested going up a gearing felt same effort wise. The stock MC came with a 30t, so i ordered a 32t. A 30t AB Oval may be a better fit.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

My friend bought an RSD Wildcat V2 (soon to arrive) because he saw mine in person and was so impressed. I'm hoping that he sells it to me when he's done with it


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> What crank, chainring offset, and how much did you need to space over your BB.


I run 2.5mm spacers on either side without issue on five of six RSD's.
6mm offset chain rings. Some manufacturers refer to em as boost compatible.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

drivera said:


> My friend bought an RSD Wildcat V2 (soon to arrive) because he saw mine in person and was so impressed. I'm hoping that he sells it to me when he's done with it


My friend got her WC shipping notification from RSD. I'll be building it up for her on Saturday.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

vikb said:


> My friend got her WC shipping notification from RSD. I'll be building it up for her on Saturday.


Magic carpet ride incoming...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

BansheeRune said:


> Magic carpet ride incoming...


about that ...

I was a little suprised when I started riding the Middlechild, not that I hadn't ridden a hardtail before, but I guess I've become a little spoiled riding FS bikes, cuz a hardtail is anything but soft riding.

Even with nearly 3" tires, pressure down low, it's still firm and a touchy bouncy.

I'm glad I built up the MC, but it will never be an everyday driver, mostly it'll be my trials bike, mud bike, and loaner bike.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

6mm is a big offset, got a few of those lying around, mostly used them for fat bikes. 4mm offset is more usable in my experience, though for the GG bikes I use zero offset due to the bike design already incorporating a 3mm offset. I'd love to see a 2mm offset but I suppose that's splitting hairs.

Chainring offsets can be adjusted a variety of ways, offsetting crank or BB, using different chainring offsets, in the end the goal is to have good chain alignment, chainstay clearance, and a centered crank.

Oval chainrings throw a wrench in the works because they are effectively much larger than their tooth count. A while back I tossed all my oval rings, used them for a few years, never really found a benefit.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

lars-atx said:


> I messaged Alex, he responded that it is a tight fit, and I could add a 1mm BB spacer on the drive side would help.
> 
> It looks like I currently have about 1.5mm clearance without the spacer.
> 
> As far as gearing, in reading about going from round to oval, many suggested going up a gearing felt same effort wise. The stock MC came with a 30t, so i ordered a 32t. A 30t AB Oval may be a better fit.


32t is 32t, making it oval doesn't change that, though in theory oval chain rings smooth out the inefficiencies of a pedal stroke.

I wouldn't increase from a 30t to a 32t, it'll make it harder to climb.

I climb really steep and sustained trails, so I run a 26t with a 12sp Shimano XT, pretty much use my stump pulling gears on most of my rides unless I'm just out for a backyard spin.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> about that ...
> 
> I was a little suprised when I started riding the Middlechild, not that I hadn't ridden a hardtail before, but I guess I've become a little spoiled riding FS bikes, cuz a hardtail is anything but soft riding.
> 
> ...


Wildcat with 150mm f, 140mm r travel is indeed a magic carpet with a bicycle seat!

On the MC Front, I ride 50% of my miles with my singlespeed MC and wouldn't trade that session experience for the world. Never do my tires exceed 15 PSI so hell on wheels with simplicity is on tap. 
Love the hell outta my SS MC... I get the suspension thang since I have scoliosis.

Oval rings... BioSpace comes to mind. Since that is the image that passes through the vacuum tubes, I stay away. I realize that the oval has been timed differently but with two blown knees that were supposed to be replaced 35 years ago. Surgeon that checked em originally stated that my left knee was "junk". Ugh!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Ohhhh, damn I saw MC, but she's getting a WC, now that makes sense. My bad ?

... and how many RSD bikes do you own?

What gearing do you run on the SS MC? I'm a reformed single speeder, but I still get the itch on occasion. Back in the day I rode a 29er, 32 x 20-22, southeastern US, lots of short punchy climbs and roots to die for ?



BansheeRune said:


> Wildcat with 150mm f, 140mm r travel is indeed a magic carpet with a bicycle seat!
> 
> On the MC Front, I ride 50% of my miles with my singlespeed MC and wouldn't trade that session experience for the world. Never do my tires exceed 15 PSI so hell on wheels with simplicity is on tap.
> Love the hell outta my SS MC... I get the suspension thang since I have scoliosis.
> ...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> Ohhhh, damn I saw MC, but she's getting a WC, now that makes sense. My bad 珞
> 
> ... and how many RSD bikes do you own?
> 
> What gearing do you run on the SS MC? I'm a reformed single speeder, but I still get the itch on occasion. Back in the day I rode a 29er, 32 x 20-22, southeastern US, lots of short punchy climbs and roots to die for 


It all started with the Sergeant V1... Still have that one and love the hell out of it. 
The collection is Sarge V1 and V3, Mayor V3 and V4, Wildcat V1, MiddleChild.

The MC is 30-14 with plan to go taller over time provided I can get the knees to be happy with it. This bike as a SS is so much fun and with the playful geometry only fueling that fire, the SS experiment has been a great success. I run 3.0's on i45's cause 2.ohhellno isn't plus enough. Fork is a Pike 150mm travel. The bike just rides so nicely on everything I've taken it on. Passing geared squishy bikes on the trails is a blast as well. Railing a flow trail and passing a few peeps on their 29'rs, one of which was on a 29+ blew their minds since they thought + was slow and clumsy. They discovered that a MC on the trail was far from slow and clumsy by demonstration of plus capability! MC as a SS will reform any gearaholic, just sayin'...



TheNatureBoy said:


> Biggest problem in MTB & gravel industry right now - low stack , short wheelbase , reach made for elves .
> 
> Time to modernize and make some bikes bigger . Low stack is a recipe for otb - I don't care how good of a rider you are.
> 
> ...


Stack can be dealt with rather easily. I am considering an FSA Gradient bar, 40mm rise. There is a damn good reason I have 40mm spacer under the stem. With a 150mm Pike out front, a 70° seat tube angle is just right too. I really wouldn't want to go steeper STA since it just doesn't work for me. And to think, I was considering a Marino custom...


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## TheGhost (Nov 3, 2018)

From Foxes website.i guess RS are similar

WARNING: Never use more than 30 mm of height of steerer stem spacers under the steerer stem, as this condition can cause the steerer tube to fail, causing a loss of control resulting in SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

TheGhost said:


> From Foxes website.i guess RS are similar
> 
> WARNING: Never use more than 30 mm of height of steerer stem spacers under the steerer stem, as this condition can cause the steerer tube to fail, causing a loss of control resulting in SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH.


Yeah, probably a good idea to keep it under 30mm.

Using a riser works nicely.


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## Stihlgoin (Aug 6, 2019)

So, these happen to be dirty one year old bike pictures, but, why not. Son is being trials-y, so to save the 29er wheels lives we went to 27.5 with Rimpact plus inserts. WTB kom tough i35 wheels with 2.6” Contis. Also added an MRP wave 30t oval ring. Second dirty picture shows the spacer washer on the cinch crank arm. The now 13 yo is killing it on this.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

TheGhost said:


> From Foxes website.i guess RS are similar
> 
> WARNING: Never use more than 30 mm of height of steerer stem spacers under the steerer stem, as this condition can cause the steerer tube to fail, causing a loss of control resulting in SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH.


For the basher in the crowd, that is sound advise...
Curious if there is also a head tube length warning as well. There is an HT length/steer length warning for trials bikes...


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## ghebinkim (Nov 8, 2011)

*FS: 2019 Middlechild, Medium, Turquoise*

If anybody is interested, I've unfortunately decided to sell the MC. I'll keep this post short with the key details and a single photo, but I've included the PB buy/sell ad if anybody would like more info. Bike is located in NorCal.

*The Build:
*Frame: 2019 RSD Middlechild Chromoly, Size Medium, Turquoise
Fork: 2019 Fox 34 Factory, 140mm travel, Boost spacing, 44mm offset, FIT4 damper
Drivetrain: Shimano XT 11-speed
Brakes: Shimano XT 4-piston, 180mm Icetech rotors. Currently set up moto-style but I can easily reverse if desired.
Wheels: Stan's NoTubes Flow EX3, 29"
Tires: Specialized Butcher Grid 2.6" front, Specialized Purgatory Grid 2.6" rear

PB Ad


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

ghebinkim said:


> If anybody is interested, I've unfortunately decided to sell the MC. I'll keep this post short with the key details and a single photo, but I've included the PB buy/sell ad if anybody would like more info. Bike is located in NorCal.
> 
> *The Build:
> *Frame: 2019 RSD Middlechild Chromoly, Size Medium, Turquoise
> ...


Turncoat...


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## ghebinkim (Nov 8, 2011)

BansheeRune said:


> Turncoat...


 I really love the idea of the hardtail, but the aging knees disagree...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

ghebinkim said:


> I really love the idea of the hardtail, but the aging knees disagree...


I'm the better part of 40 years past the point of being told I need total joint replacement... Am I glad I have not done the deed? Yus, indeed!
My scoliosis has progressed over those years as well. Go figure!

I hope to be able to keep riding my MC for years to come. Knowing my limitations and listening to what my body is telling me has kept my riding addiction going for many years. At this point I am 6 years post heart surgery. That was an experience that left me feeling like I had burnt exhaust valves, no fun.

Now, back to giving you a hard time... I was giving you a little jab in jest!


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

I've been itching to build a 27.5+ steel singlspeed hardtail and the Middlechild checked all my boxes for geometry, tire clearance and sliding dropouts.

The site says XL frames are sold out but I reached out to Alex last night to confirm that I couldn't pre order an XL frame. He responded this morning that after double checking they had 1 in black unclaimed, whick I ordered. When I placed my order it actually said there were 2 available in black, so if anyone missed the boat on an XL frame, there's one on the site.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

jeffw-13 said:


> I've been itching to build a 27.5+ steel singlspeed hardtail and the Middlechild checked all my boxes for geometry, tire clearance and sliding dropouts.
> 
> The site says XL frames are sold out but I reached out to Alex last night to confirm that I couldn't pre order an XL frame. He responded this morning that after double checking they had 1 in black unclaimed, whick I ordered. When I placed my order it actually said there were 2 available in black, so if anyone missed the boat on an XL frame, there's one on the site.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


It pays to reach out to Alex for any bike request. Sometimes it works like it did for you! He gets enough interest showing and might do another batch sooner than later as well.

Gratz!


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## dmgolden (Sep 9, 2008)

*Intro & my new(ish) MC*

Long time MTBR lurker, but just stumbled on the RSD MC thread & have had such a positive experience with both Alex & the bike that I wanted to post so that if others like me are considering an RSD they hopefully find some good info from a non-ambassador, completely unbiased guy who has a day job & paid full price for my bike. I learned about RSD from watching HT Party at night after the kids are in bed (great channel, Steve - keep it up!) & it is the perfect bike for someone (like me) who can & does love to ride all sorts of trails, but isn't necessarily looking to set Strava segment records (because, well: hardtail!)

I got my MC in early June so I've had a good 30+ rides on it now, including a couple 3+hr rides & it is seriously the most fun I've had on a MTB as an adult (who is in his early 40s & has ridden road & MTB solidly for 20yrs now). I've been mainly riding with one of my oldest & best MTB buddies here in SD, who is on either his ~2yr old Ibis Ripley or his brand new Ripmo. He has always descended better than me but he's not dropping me on descents (and I'm fitter than him so I out climb him no matter what bike we're each on). And I seriously don't stop grinning on this bike. It is an absolute riot.

Alex was amazing to deal with. He was SUPER responsive & was great working with me on the spec; I knew what I wanted & given that I'd been mainly riding my rigid SS Karate Monkey lately, I wasn't so concerned about 12sp vs 11sp, so Alex agreed to spec it 11sp XT for me (like 2019 was - Pre 12sp SLX). We had a small snafu with 11vs12sp hub driver (came with 12sp cassette) & Alex overnighted the replacement driver to me. Easy-peasy.

It came with the Duroc 50s & 2.8 DHF/DHRII which was (is) a fine set up but obviously not a primo wheel set & wheels are personal anyway. So in order to keep the Durocs as my backup/bike packing wheel set, about a month ago I had my LBS build up a set of DT Swiss XM551 wheels on 350 hubs (w/ 54T ratchet upgrade). On Alex's recommendation - he remained available to bounce questions & ideas off of well after my purchase. And the wheels have been awesome so far.

I'm running the DT Swiss wheels as my daily driver with 2.8DFH/2.6 DRRII right now (2.6 after a rim strike puncture last Saturday-on a gap jump I shorted into a concrete drain culvert - oops. Rim is totally fine though. My wheel-builder & I bent the small ding out no problem). I would've gotten another 2.8 rear but with Covid apparently the world is running short on tires! But I must say I'm kinda digging the 2.6. Very agile & feels like there's less "back there" to get caught up on the San Diego chunk. Haven't felt too much loss of cushion.

So yeah. Cool to see some other bike nerds are also enjoying their MiddleChildren. As the first born, I immediately sent a picture to my middle sister - who was not amused .


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

dmgolden, firstly, welcome to the forum, secondly, welcome to the MC foundation! 
While I am not an ambassador, I have quite a large investment in RSD's offerings. Which is my favorite? All of em, depending on the ride agenda of the moment.
My MC has been singlespeed since initial build and Alex continues to tell me that I need to gear the bike. My response is no way, Jose! I'm really enjoying the ride and performance this bike is bringing my way as a singlespeed. Trialsy, yus, playful, yus, rides as well as a geared with the simplicity of one gear to mess up instead of 12 of em! 

With being in the heart of the Rockies, my bike named Sunspot is in prime mountain bike habitat. There is very little level ground and so much natural trials elements placed there by God, it's a heavenly blessing.

There, that part is done, on to your experience.

Glad that you bought a MC and are loving the ride! The adventure that it brings is boundless. And, you got to experience a very cool cat, Alex. The guy has hit it outta da park with the MC. The best part of your post is the first pic with the slow rider in the background waiting til you aren't looking to take your bike for a session! Actually, it is the experimenting with the build and riding a different setup for kicks n grins. That is why I follow JustJ's Waltworks thread. Good stuff and a full blown bikeaholic! Be safe, healthy and ride!


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

Can't wait to get my frame. I've been accumulating parts and will also run mine singlspeed. I have an Absolute Black oval chainring to mount on a Stylo crank and also got their narrow/wide rear cog. 

I scored a great deal on a lightly used Pike Ultimate and have a set of SLX brakes and a Crank Bros Hiline dropper left over from another build.

Hope Fortus 35 wheels and 2.8 Nobby Nics will round out the rolling stock.


Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

jeffw-13 said:


> Can't wait to get my frame. I've been accumulating parts and will also run mine singlspeed. I have an Absolute Black oval chainring to mount on a Stylo crank and also got their narrow/wide rear cog.
> 
> I scored a great deal on a lightly used Pike Ultimate and have a set of SLX brakes and a Crank Bros Hiline dropper left over from another build.
> 
> ...


Now you're cookin'! Dunno how an egg ring will work without the use of a tensioner but have seen mention of it done on this forum. My concern would be how it affects the dirver in the rear hub.

My bike is wearing NN 3.0's and occasionally a pair of G-One 2.8's. The G-One's are light and fast for street session play. Fvck, I love the MC.

Keep us posted with pics and ride reports. I hope all that now have an MC do the ride reports and pics cause the MC is a piece of art.


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## Doug_J (Oct 5, 2009)

OK, I read through this whole thread... I really want some info on the Aluminum version. I like the steel, love the titanium, but I can sort of justify the cost of the aluminum. If anyone has some experience on the aluminum frame and can speak to ride quality I'd love to hear it. 

I found this bike on Youtube/Hardtail Party, and for some reason it's really tripping my trigger. I certainly don't need it, and I haven't had a hardtail in years. Never really liked the hardtails I had... So what is it about this one?


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

The Middlechild is a new breed of hardtail, unlike what you used to ride. I rode a Kona Honzo previously, which was a good bike, but the Middlechild kicks things up a notch when's things get rowdy.

I have the steel frame and absolutely love the feel of steel. A typical descriptor of an aluminum vs steel hardtail is aluminum feels stiffer and steel feels softer. Unfortunately I haven't seen any ride reports on the aluminum out yet to read someone's first hand experience.

The parts spec on the steel full build is an amazing build for the cost. The build on the aluminum is also great for the cost. If you're looking for a fun second bike and keeping the cost low, the aluminum will fit your needs. The most important thing that determines how a bike rides is it's geometry. The Middlechild is pretty dialed with it's geometry. If you become interested in upgrading parts down the road, you have the frame to do it, since you won't need to upgrade the frame for years.

If you decide to pull the trigger on one, as an RSD ambassador I can give you a code to get a small discount. DM if you do.



Doug_J said:


> OK, I read through this whole thread... I really want some info on the Aluminum version. I like the steel, love the titanium, but I can sort of justify the cost of the aluminum. If anyone has some experience on the aluminum frame and can speak to ride quality I'd love to hear it.
> 
> I found this bike on Youtube/Hardtail Party, and for some reason it's really tripping my trigger. I certainly don't need it, and I haven't had a hardtail in years. Never really liked the hardtails I had... So what is it about this one?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Doug_J said:


> OK, I read through this whole thread... I really want some info on the Aluminum version. I like the steel, love the titanium, but I can sort of justify the cost of the aluminum. If anyone has some experience on the aluminum frame and can speak to ride quality I'd love to hear it.
> 
> I found this bike on Youtube/Hardtail Party, and for some reason it's really tripping my trigger. I certainly don't need it, and I haven't had a hardtail in years. Never really liked the hardtails I had... So what is it about this one?


Difference between steel, Ti and aluminum is metal chosen. They are all from the same shop drawing. Now it gets down to feel of ride. Ti feels very nice and compliant typically, steel is similar due to the way the metal flexes under load. Aluminum is typically stiffer feeling. Where you might loose that feeling is with 2.6, 2.8 or 3.0's at moderate pressures. Since plussers usually run softer tires than a 2.hellno bike that may mask the stiff aluminum feeling or the Ti supple feel.

Frankly, my steel 2019 is very stiff and a grain of sand feels like hitting a curb if I run more than 15 psi for a 160# rider running i45's shod with light 3.0's. Being a plusser, I run 12r, 10f for most of my haunts. Junktown and Fruita, 12f 12r but never more than 14 on either end cause it will send me in for dentures to replace the teeth shaken outta my face and left on the trail.

Not only is geometry key, but length of CS and front end are major players moreso than simply geo.

Is it versatile? YUS, indeed!!! Can it descend, YUS, can it flow, you can bet the farm on it. It is so playful that I cannot just ride, I hafta get trialsy on each and every ride since it is required! Love the hell outta my "Tennis Ball Yellow" bike!

Another note; I have taken the MC on everything I have taken the Wildcat on and never missed a beat, evuh!

So, to those that might like to ride my MC, mitts off and git yer own!

Any of the three metals are worthy and superior to other offerings in its class, period.

Lastly, the only 2.8's I own are a pair of G-Ones for street session cause they are light, fast and fun. All other tires I will run are 3.0 exclusively, it's a plusser after all... No minus bullshit permitted!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Robik said:


> RSD group ride is what we need!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


This, 'nuff said! A family reunion for Middlechildren would be so freakin awesome.

Did a Turner fest years ago and it was more than a worthy event.


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## Doug_J (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks guys for the good info, and AlpineMTB, I'll definitely take you up on the code when the pre-orders open up!

Dying for a ride report on the AL bike, hopefully with the 27.5+ RSD build.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It's a pretty robust frame design, so probably wouldn't notice much. Ti does tend to be a little spongier than steel, but vertical compliance is probably the same.

I'd only spring for Ti if I had money to burn, clearly I don't cuz all my bikes roll on aluminum,



Doug_J said:


> OK, I read through this whole thread... I really want some info on the Aluminum version. I like the steel, love the titanium, but I can sort of justify the cost of the aluminum. If anyone has some experience on the aluminum frame and can speak to ride quality I'd love to hear it.
> 
> I found this bike on Youtube/Hardtail Party, and for some reason it's really tripping my trigger. I certainly don't need it, and I haven't had a hardtail in years. Never really liked the hardtails I had... So what is it about this one?


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

I was notified by Alex at RSD that a small batch of steel MC frames had issues in the manufacturing process and are being replaced under warranty so kudos to RSD for being proactive when so many companies wait until the customer reaches out. I decided to upgrade to a purple Wildcat V2 (at additional cost) rather than replace with another MC. Mainly because I've had fun on the MC and want to try something different and partly because I enjoy my local trails more on a fs bike. We've got lots of roots where I ride and the fs just takes the sting out and allows for more traction. I bounce back and forth between my Ripmo (75%) and the MC (25%) which hurts my ability to ride the MC well because my lazy fs riding style takes over. The MC was really fun but I look forward to riding the Wildcat V2 and providing feedback for anyone who's interested in hearing it.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

mblittle said:


> I was notified by Alex at RSD that a small batch of steel MC frames had issues in the manufacturing process and are being replaced under warranty so kudos to RSD for being proactive when so many companies wait until the customer reaches out. I decided to upgrade to a purple Wildcat V2 (at additional cost) rather than replace with another MC. Mainly because I've had fun on the MC and want to try something different and partly because I enjoy my local trails more on a fs bike. We've got lots of roots where I ride and the fs just takes the sting out and allows for more traction. I bounce back and forth between my Ripmo (75%) and the MC (25%) which hurts my ability to ride the MC well because my lazy fs riding style takes over. The MC was really fun but I look forward to riding the Wildcat V2 and providing feedback for anyone who's interested in hearing it.


Do you have more info about bikes that are defective (year, color etc) We have a small MC so just wondering...


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

The email says it only applies to steel MC frames produced in spring of 2020 but reach out to RSD if you are not sure.


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## areeves08 (Jan 7, 2020)

I wasn't sure if Alex was going to post anything about the frames here or not. I received the same email, but didn't know whether to wait on updates about the new frames or reach out and start discussing my options. The only thing that popped into my mind was possibly changing colors? I think it'd be a perfect time to release some new color options.


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

areeves08 said:


> I wasn't sure if Alex was going to post anything about the frames here or not. I received the same email, but didn't know whether to wait on updates about the new frames or reach out and start discussing my options. The only thing that popped into my mind was possibly changing colors? I think it'd be a perfect time to release some new color options.


I reached out to him as soon as the email came through because the idea of upgrading to a Wildcat V2 was interesting and the new frame shipped out the next day. I'll have a ride report posted by Sunday over in the Wildcat thread under this topic.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Smart, I did the same, medium purple Wildcat, arrives next week.

I liked the idea of the MC, had hoped I could tolerate riding a hardtail, but alas it's not to be.

The Wildcat will be a nice all around playbike and second bike for visiting family/friends.

Truly, Alex is great, he didn't even flinch when I asked to upgrade.



mblittle said:


> I was notified by Alex at RSD that a small batch of steel MC frames had issues in the manufacturing process and are being replaced under warranty so kudos to RSD for being proactive when so many companies wait until the customer reaches out. I decided to upgrade to a purple Wildcat V2 (at additional cost) rather than replace with another MC. Mainly because I've had fun on the MC and want to try something different and partly because I enjoy my local trails more on a fs bike. We've got lots of roots where I ride and the fs just takes the sting out and allows for more traction. I bounce back and forth between my Ripmo (75%) and the MC (25%) which hurts my ability to ride the MC well because my lazy fs riding style takes over. The MC was really fun but I look forward to riding the Wildcat V2 and providing feedback for anyone who's interested in hearing it.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

mblittle said:


> The email says it only applies to steel MC frames produced in spring of 2020 but reach out to RSD if you are not sure.


I purchase mine fall 2019 I think so should be ok. I didn't received any email so mine is probably fine...


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Ive got a small tennis ball yellow mc steel frame is sell, along with a ti small if anyone is interested. Both original batches. Pm for details.

My med ti mc isn't going anywhere. Its my most ridden bike.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

*Kudos to Alex*

I have a frame within the small batch. Shot him an email and got an immediate response. RSD has been a pleasure to work with. Personally I do not believe my frame has an issue but Alex is replacing it regardless. Class act.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

mblittle said:


> I was notified by Alex at RSD that a small batch of steel MC frames had issues in the manufacturing process and are being replaced under warranty so kudos to RSD for being proactive when so many companies wait until the customer reaches out. I decided to upgrade to a purple Wildcat V2 (at additional cost) rather than replace with another MC. Mainly because I've had fun on the MC and want to try something different and partly because I enjoy my local trails more on a fs bike. We've got lots of roots where I ride and the fs just takes the sting out and allows for more traction. I bounce back and forth between my Ripmo (75%) and the MC (25%) which hurts my ability to ride the MC well because my lazy fs riding style takes over. The MC was really fun but I look forward to riding the Wildcat V2 and providing feedback for anyone who's interested in hearing it.


Kinda expected from RSD and Alex, the guy does have the proper integrity.
Riding... With a MC, there is no sloppy riding coverup by FS hiding that laziness, on your game or consequence prevails! The Wildcat will be a small weight penalty but the performance is top notch.



NJ Gator said:


> I have a frame within the small batch. Shot him an email and got an immediate response. RSD has been a pleasure to work with. Personally I do not believe my frame has an issue but Alex is replacing it regardless. Class act.


Try that with any other bike company...


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

I too had one of the defective batch and upgraded to the Wildcat. Can't wait. Just wanted to drop into this thread to note that it's much appreciated RSD has been so willing to work with us. I've had a lot of encounters with warranty and general issues, but usually have to twist peoples arms to help me out. Its a nice breathe of fresh air to have a company not only be proactive, but also give you up front options to fix the situation.


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## Doug_J (Oct 5, 2009)

Are there any details about what is wrong with the frames? Has anyone experienced any issues or was this purely proactive on RSD's part?


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## mblittle (May 25, 2010)

I've got no details other than small bubbling on the top tube but I never even noticed it until RSD pointed it out. I've had no issues.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Its a joint near the head tube that apparently wasn't heat treated properly from the way the email made it sound. It also said there has only been 2 found with the issue, so it's 99% being proactive IMO. 

They put a picture of the issue in the email and asked that people check their frames. I didn't notice mine having the issue, and I went over it pretty thoroughly with a light.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

This is why RSD has earned the loyalty and trust that I place in them. It is also why I own six RSD’s.


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## stm32disco (Jun 7, 2017)

Does anyone know or wants to guess who the manufacturer is? I scoured the box mine came in and found no hints. This kind of thing seems to be a carefully guarded secret.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

stm32disco said:


> Does anyone know or wants to guess who the manufacturer is? I scoured the box mine came in and found no hints. This kind of thing seems to be a carefully guarded secret.


Very typical. The various manufacturers will build frames to a specification but have a minimum order requirement. Most small companies will keep a tight lip on what factory is doing their OEM supply.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

*Gear Shifting Strategies- Quick transition "g-outs"*

My fellow RSD MC riders, I need some technique advice.

The MC is the first 12 speed drivetrain I have ridden. I still "struggle" with selecting the right gear at times. Especially coming out of G-Outs I drop into harder gears on the downhill and sometimes struggle to get into an effective climbing gear (sometimes too hard, sometimes too easy). I suspect this happens because I never had a clutch before- so previously on the downhills I got into the tallest gear and on the roll up (with a SRAM 8 speed GS) I was able to dump a ton of gears and the gearing was so close I was able to get into a good climbing gear (Having the gear window helped a lot- tbh I wish the SLX 12 speed had a window- lame I know).

Now with the 12 speed clutch rear dear, if I can remember (fighting years of muscle memory), I get into a gear on the downhill that will be the right gear for the uphill (anticipated gear) this way if I am off I am only dropping or adding a gear. I find that I don't do this consistently.

So here is my question- my problem is poor shifting technique. Is the anticipated shifting technique described above the proper solution? Or is there more effective techniques to consider?

Why post this here? Because the MC has required to change my riding style. Cornering, rider position in technical terrain have all needed tweaks that have made me a better rider. In following Steve's channel And Kyle and April's channel I have made adjustments that have really made the MC come alive.

What is the secret sauce for shifting for quick extreme g-outs?

The upgrade gods whisper to me getting a high engagement hub would help but the reality fun-killers say if you are already in too tall a gear how will that help? I will need to come up with better excuses to justify a cool high engagement wheetset in the future... but for today what were some solutions out there that can be shared?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Gator, to get started, plus is unique unto itself in terms of bike handling and body english. Nuff said there...

With 12 speed, I have not really the difference between gears to actually be comfortable. Too close in ratios. There are many conditions that I need something to pull against, that being a taller gear. Think big block vs. 4 cylinder... 
Part of what you and I have to do is get accustomed to the gears and where we need to be in the coming terrain. Anticipation is required and takes time to learn to the point that we do not think about it, rather we automatically do the deed. 
Basically, you need to reprogram yourself to a large degree due to 8 speed vs. 12 speed! It took some time to learn the "performance mode" of my 10 speed drivetrain with the RSD collection! 

With my MC, I have been running singlespeed since day one. If ya think 12 speed is a management nightmare, you are spot on cause it takes practice to get the right gear in as little time as possible. Singlespeed is similar however, doing the anticipation is done with fervor that gears can cover handily! Had to change technique on the wholesale level for that to happen. 

G-outs and a shift... You do this part on the approach so you are there as you head out and start to wind up. That is anticipation! Again, takes time to get that to the point of autonomous. 

Engagement points... The lash that some hubs have can be a downer. Coming from my trials bike, I have been spoiled with the insanely fast engagement that trials requires. In trials, it is imperative to have near instant engagement. Looking at hubs, I look for the number of engagement points first and foremost. Want zero lash, Onyx, plain and simple however, expensive as hell. Hope hubs are 72 point engagement and are doable at a reasonable price. There are others with 108 or more points of engagement but with that comes a price. 

Generally, where the improvement lives is in looking down the trail at landmarks so you can anticipate what is necessary and be ready in advance. If you are already into a feature, likely a gear shift is too little, too late. It goes back to looking down the trail and not so much down at what the front wheel is rolling over. Not only does this make anticipation happen, you inherently carry a line with little to no effort.

Frankly, I think you will pick up on the gear selection thing with time and practice. Recommend hitting a few sections with a good curve for the g-out thing that you can do repeatedly and experiment. Each run, pay close attention to what you do and what you did differently that improved the ride. Try to limit the number of changes made during each run to be able to determine what worked and what did not. Too many changes at one time and mistakes get lost in the crowd, so to speak.

Wait til you start viewing some of the riders like Chris Akrigg and Pat Smage... They are catlike and make it look effortless! Believe me, it is a freakin workout that just happens to be fun factory good. Been there, done that... 

Singlespeed and the MC... What I really enjoy is the trialsy feel of a bike like the MC and it isn't seatless like by KOXX Red Sky! The ability to TGS on the trails is irreplaceable and does lend to a lovely experience on the mountain. 
Alex has suggested gears on many occaions... Love ya, Alex buttttttt... Cannot do anything that may adversely affect the trialsy side of the pithy little trail eater! I think it was Nurse Ben that referred to his MC as "punky", good description!


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

I think they're going the wrong way with gears. Give me 3 usable gears (climbing, cruising and a high speed gear) and I'll be much happier, which is why my MC will be singlspeed when my frame comes.


Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

jeffw-13 said:


> I think they're going the wrong way with gears. Give me 3 usable gears (climbing, cruising and a high speed gear) and I'll be much happier, which is why my MC will be singlspeed when my frame comes.


I'm with you in general. I might go for a 5-7 speed drivetrain, but I am definitely on the less is more train of thought. If you haven't seen this article you might like it.

https://nsmb.com/articles/does-future-have-fewer-gears/

I have had a couple SS bikes, but not one I have really ridden on the trails. I'm going to try SS bikpacking [on a gravel style route] in the next year. I've thought about trying to SS MTB, but man that just sounds so tough here in Coastal BC, but I know I really need to do it exclusively for a season to understand what it is like.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

*Couldn't agree more*

I think they're going the wrong way with gears. Give me 3 usable gears (climbing, cruising and a high speed gear)

Couldn't agree more- I loooove SS and my geared bike of the past was 8 speed gripshift. Was more than enough. In fact I ordered my N/W 18 speed cog- I also got a free hub hub body to use the stock wheel set.

For the geared set-up, I am embracing the 12 speed thing because tracking down dated, no longer produced shifters and derailleurs got to be tedious. Knowing I can get my hands on stuff I need virtually any bike shop is appealing.

I just feel like a complete noob when I come to a dead stop on an uphill as I transition from momentum to pedal power. Hey it may be unmasking years of poor technique and I just need to work through it. For example I am far from great at corners but I have adopted technique that is light years advanced as to how I used to corner...

I was the old-school rider that seemed to resist everything- that and I was too frugal to drop cash for new wheels, forks etc to adopt to ever changing standards.

Bringing the thread BACK to the RSD MC  KUDOS to Alex- he developed a very nice overall package with the MC- great frame, modern geo and a SOLID spec all for a reasonable price.

Learning new technique to adapt to the bikes of today has been very fun and has "recaptured" that long lost sense of accomplishment when I "nail" something for the very first time. Specifically the A-HA moment of "Oh THAT'S how it supposed to feel." Thanks all- especially Steve and Banshee Rune for indulging my questions and educating me to seek out ways to improve my technique.


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## hardmtnbiker (Feb 22, 2005)

I just saw what Steve HARDTAIL PARTY did with his Ti RSD MC. I’m not sure I would do that but do agree that extra gusset is probably not needed. As for 1x12, I don’t own any bikes with that and my 1x11 serves me fine. If I where to but a complete RSD MC I’d be happy to be on a 1x12 but most likely I’d just buy a frame and build up a SS again.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

jeffw-13 said:


> I think they're going the wrong way with gears. Give me 3 usable gears (climbing, cruising and a high speed gear) and I'll be much happier, which is why my MC will be singlspeed when my frame comes.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


I have contemplated a 4 or 5 speed arrangement using a short cage RD and Endless cogs or Surly cogs. Singlespeed is so far an addiction that I cannot let go of. 
I do have a few cogs with matched chains for the option of gearing changes that take moments. Handy if the terrain needs shorter or taller gearing. Regardless, I love my one speed automatic!



hardmtnbiker said:


> I just saw what Steve HARDTAIL PARTY did with his Ti RSD MC. I'm not sure I would do that but do agree that extra gusset is probably not needed. As for 1x12, I don't own any bikes with that and my 1x11 serves me fine. If I where to but a complete RSD MC I'd be happy to be on a 1x12 but most likely I'd just buy a frame and build up a SS again.


Gussets and Ti. Keeping in mind that cooking the material does things to it, the additional cooking does more to the structure of the metal. Due to the locations of gussets, there is a large amount of heat going on to place that gusset. I would really find myself curious as to the benefit.

11/12 speed... 
Not sold on it as the ratios are closer between gears. I find that I like something to pull against more often than close ratio makes convenient. I have no interest in pizza pan sized gears in the rear since a 36 is taking my geared bikes up the mountain efficiently despite blown knees.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

Paint or powder coat on the frames?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

jeffw-13 said:


> Paint or powder coat on the frames?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Powder requires heat. Wet coatings, no heat. 
The finishing touch is going to be a color sand and polish on either.

Wet finish choice has been urethane base for durability and depth. Wet will never be as durable as powder.

Both media options have a massive color palette in solids as well as metallics and transparents.


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## SpartyinWI (Jun 24, 2016)

9GUY9 said:


> Anyone on the fence about getting this bike, I still highly recommend it. It is just a fun bike all the time. It climbs anything, then turns right around and descends anything you throw at it. I got a fancy new FS bike at the end of last season, I have yet to take it off its hook this spring. I have been having a blast riding my MiddleChild.


I am one of those people. I plan to order a new hardtail in December or January, given there are not obsurd wait times. I have 3 on the top of my head after doing a fair amount of research - Yeti ARC, Cotic SolarisMax, and RSD Middlechild as a 29er. I don't own FS bikes so this will be my main bike.

I think my main concern about the Middlechild - is it too much bike for SouthEast Wisconsin trials? My 100m XC hardtail does get a little overwhelmed.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

The RSD is burly but just at home on tamer trails as the nasty trails. 29’er wheels would work really well. Most of my rides have been the the tamer side this year and I found it to be much more comfortable, capable and playful than I anticipated. That is even with 27.5+. I think the Cotic would feel similar but the Yeti would be closer to what you ride now. These aggressive hard tails are enormously capable- and not just in extreme terrain.


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## SpartyinWI (Jun 24, 2016)

NJ Gator said:


> The RSD is burly but just at home on tamer trails as the nasty trails. 29'er wheels would work really well. Most of my rides have been the the tamer side this year and I found it to be much more comfortable, capable and playful than I anticipated. That is even with 27.5+. I think the Cotic would feel similar but the Yeti would be closer to what you ride now. These aggressive hard tails are enormously capable- and not just in extreme terrain.


Thanks, good to hear. Seems like really cool bike. I have a 2017 Timberjack 27.5+ as well - just turning it into a winter bike but still ride it on the more technical trail where I am at.


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## 9GUY9 (Jul 14, 2007)

SpartyinWI said:


> I am one of those people. I plan to order a new hardtail in December or January, given there are not obsurd wait times. I have 3 on the top of my head after doing a fair amount of research - Yeti ARC, Cotic SolarisMax, and RSD Middlechild as a 29er. I don't own FS bikes so this will be my main bike.
> 
> I think my main concern about the Middlechild - is it too much bike for SouthEast Wisconsin trials? My 100m XC hardtail does get a little overwhelmed.


I dont think its too much bike for any trails. Its a hard tail and will pedal well anywhere. If you ride to have fun, its a fun bike. If you are racing or concerned with setting Strava times, there are probably better fitting bikes.

I have been happily riding mine on WI and MN trails for a bit over a year now. I have ridden it as a 27+, and 29'r. I prefer the 27+ setup for my home trails, which are sandy and feature packed. The 29 setup feels a bit faster.


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

NJ Gator said:


> The RSD is burly but just at home on tamer trails as the nasty trails. 29'er wheels would work really well. Most of my rides have been the the tamer side this year and I found it to be much more comfortable, capable and playful than I anticipated. That is even with 27.5+. I think the Cotic would feel similar but the Yeti would be closer to what you ride now. These aggressive hard tails are enormously capable- and not just in extreme terrain.


I think the MC hits a sweet spot as an all rounder with a nudge towards the down. Hardtails are always going to climb well because of the lack of rear suspension. The sturdy steel frame and a trail oriented build will not allow it to be a XC whippet if that's what someone is looking for, but it wont perform poorly.

With the builds that RSD puts on the MC it is more focused on being well rounded. Not too heavy, but strong enough to take a beating.


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## SpartyinWI (Jun 24, 2016)

9GUY9 said:


> I dont think its too much bike for any trails. Its a hard tail and will pedal well anywhere. If you ride to have fun, its a fun bike. If you are racing or concerned with setting Strava times, there are probably better fitting bikes.
> 
> I have been happily riding mine on WI and MN trails for a bit over a year now. I have ridden it as a 27+, and 29'r. I prefer the 27+ setup for my home trails, which are sandy and feature packed. The 29 setup feels a bit faster.


I am definitely a weekend warrior that likes to have fun - working on my endurance and not sure I want to go back up to a 30lb bike but I am certainly no weight weenie type. After work during the week I ride my gravel bike right from my house to stay in shape. No option for weekday mountain bike trails.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

Curious about the new RS-291 steel hardtail announced on instagram by RSD. HTA 63, ST 75, fork 160mm, chain stay 420-435mm... Lower (-55mm bb drop) and 12mm longer reach...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

LewisQC said:


> Curious about the new RS-291 steel hardtail announced on instagram by RSD. HTA 63, ST 75, fork 160mm, chain stay 420-435mm... Lower (-55mm bb drop) and 12mm longer reach...


I am also curious but not fond og steep STA's...
Going to look into a Ti MC V1 needless to say...


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

LewisQC said:


> Curious about the new RS-291 steel hardtail announced on instagram by RSD. HTA 63, ST 75, fork 160mm, chain stay 420-435mm... Lower (-55mm bb drop) and 12mm longer reach...


Me too!

I started a thread in the 29er bikes forum for it. Might as well build the stoke.
RSD RS291 SlackAF Hardtail

The biggest benefit will be the lower BB for those, like me, that ride 29" wheels. The rest will come down to preference and riding styles.


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

```

```



BansheeRune said:


> I am also curious but not fond og steep STA's...
> Going to look into a Ti MC V1 needless to say...


I'm glad it isn't in the 77° STA category some bikes are going to.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

AlpineMTBTraining said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> I'm glad it isn't in the 77° STA category some bikes are going to.


77° is just a power loss before the key goes into the ignition... Anything beyond 73° is a power impediment for my needs. I can do some tweaking to fix 73 however, there is a limit to repairing what I see is an inherent design flaw.



AlpineMTBTraining said:


> I think the MC hits a sweet spot as an all rounder with a nudge towards the down. Hardtails are always going to climb well because of the lack of rear suspension. The sturdy steel frame and a trail oriented build will not allow it to be a XC whippet if that's what someone is looking for, but it wont perform poorly.
> 
> With the builds that RSD puts on the MC it is more focused on being well rounded. Not too heavy, but strong enough to take a beating.


The design and builds are very thoughtfully done. As universal as the MC V1 has been IME. Really, this frame is a solid high quality performance bike and can be built out in numerous ways to accommodate different riding styles. Can it actually give an "XC whippet a run for its money? Bet the farm on it, cause I do it with my one speed automatic MC routinely. A rider needs to use V8 power is all it takes!








Pithy little bastard looking forward to a nice run with a number of very well suited features. Sunspot is a blast.
This bike is as nimble as those XC's and has demonstrated so each opportunity.

Sparty, Sunspot is 26.5#'s, just sayin' he's svelte! Could build lighter but that would require a car payment for a bike, so mmmmm, no!


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## SpartyinWI (Jun 24, 2016)

BansheeRune said:


> 77° is just a power loss before the key goes into the ignition... Anything beyond 73° is a power impediment for my needs. I can do some tweaking to fix 73 however, there is a limit to repairing what I see is an inherent design flaw.
> 
> The design and builds are very thoughtfully done. As universal as the MC V1 has been IME. Really, this frame is a solid high quality performance bike and can be built out in numerous ways to accommodate different riding styles. Can it actually give an "XC whippet a run for its money? Bet the farm on it, cause I do it with my one speed automatic MC routinely. A rider needs to use V8 power is all it takes!
> 
> ...


Does RSD allow for any minor customization such as different tires? Getting picky I know but just checking.

Thanks.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Alex is great to work with but I think the "one-off's" are tough to accommodate. That being said, I think he does sawp-out entire components packages. Ping him and he responds pretty quick. It is pretty cool- I have sent a couple of emails his way and he responds pretty promptly. I also see the MC is coming with a V2 soon. Interesting as there is also a new model that seems to be a pretty significant overhaul. I am intrigued as to what he is adjusting from V1 to V2- may or may not fit your needs. My only nit-pick is the BB is lower than on other bikes I have ridden and that was just more of an adjustment on my part.

Curious- are you looking at the cr-mo, alum or ti?


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## SpartyinWI (Jun 24, 2016)

NJ Gator said:


> Alex is great to work with but I think the "one-off's" are tough to accommodate. That being said, I think he does sawp-out entire components packages. Ping him and he responds pretty quick. It is pretty cool- I have sent a couple of emails his way and he responds pretty promptly.  I also see the MC is coming with a V2 soon. Interesting as there is also a new model that seems to be a pretty significant overhaul. I am intrigued as to what he is adjusting from V1 to V2- may or may not fit your needs. My only nit-pick is the BB is lower than on other bikes I have ridden and that was just more of an adjustment on my part.
> 
> Curious- are you looking at the cr-mo, alum or ti?


Definitely Cr-mo. Could even do Ti if i really thought is was worth it.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

SpartyinWI said:


> Does RSD allow for any minor customization such as different tires? Getting picky I know but just checking.
> 
> Thanks.


Best to check with Alex. On occasion, provided there is sufficient stock on hand, a tire swap may well happen.



SpartyinWI said:


> Definitely Cr-mo. Could even do Ti if i really thought is was worth it.


Either are worth every penny... I am considering a Ti frame at the moment. Frankly, I cannot get enough of my V1. One of the most well mannered bikes for how playful and well suited for horseplay the bike is.



NJ Gator said:


> Alex is great to work with but I think the "one-off's" are tough to accommodate. That being said, I think he does sawp-out entire components packages. Ping him and he responds pretty quick. It is pretty cool- I have sent a couple of emails his way and he responds pretty promptly. I also see the MC is coming with a V2 soon. Interesting as there is also a new model that seems to be a pretty significant overhaul. I am intrigued as to what he is adjusting from V1 to V2- may or may not fit your needs. My only nit-pick is the BB is lower than on other bikes I have ridden and that was just more of an adjustment on my part.
> 
> Curious- are you looking at the cr-mo, alum or ti?


Ha! Low BB happens with a stubby ass fork! The new V2 is in the works. I need to see the geo and dimensions on that one.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

The ti mc is noticeably lighter and more supple than the steel mc. It's surprising how different the ride feel is between the two. If you've got the budget, the ti mc is a work of art. Both have the same great geo, and both are a lot of fun. 

For what it's worth, I feel like the bb could be even lower, but it's just fine as is.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> The ti mc is noticeably lighter and more supple than the steel mc. It's surprising how different the ride feel is between the two. If you've got the budget, the ti mc is a work of art. Both have the same great geo, and both are a lot of fun.
> 
> For what it's worth, I feel like the bb could be even lower, but it's just fine as is.


Pfft! Low BB's and AAA will be out there towing the fvcker off the speed bump in front of the liquor store! And it destroys the trialsy aspect that makes it a hella fun ride, so just fuggeddabouddit.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Tell us how you really feel... 

Different people ride different terrain and style. I have no issues with pedal strikes, but I can respect that some people prefer a higher bb.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

hardtail party said:


> Tell us how you really feel...
> 
> Different people ride different terrain and style. I have no issues with pedal strikes, but I can respect that some people prefer a higher bb.


I believe I did, Steve! All jokes aside, the BB height makes a day and night difference as to how the bike does in terms of trialsin'. Since that is a requirement, I love a bike that can do trialsy riding without a bag of concrete mix strapped to the bars. I'm far too lazy for making it a job when it is sposta be fun and playtime.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My GF brought her MC on our interior BC trip. She's recovering from a shoulder injury and we swapped in a set of Soma Dream bars on her bike to give her a more ergonomic position for longer rides. She's been enjoying the new setup on everything, but steep techy riding where she'd prefer to be on a "standard" MTB riser bar. The trails close to where we are staying only have occasional sections of harder tech unlike back home.










We expected a bunch of wet weather given the time of year it is, but we lucked out with only 1 solid day of rain so far and one more forecast before we head home. Her MC is setup with fenders and Rekon 2.8" tires so it's good for most riding until things get steep and wet. At that point she wants some real knobbies.


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## brownplus (Mar 31, 2005)

steel vs ti????
comfort??? you are missing the point. i was a steel and ti rider for 40 years....

but the mc alu model ran in mullet mode with 2.8 rear AND a 27.2 thomson "bent" seatpost with an insert = steel or better ride.

other bike is a steel custom banshee paradox SS....there is little to no difference in comfort. Weight wise you save one lb from alu to Ti...ummm...about the same in bills from your wallet. Droppers .... another story.


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## 2sharp7 (Aug 29, 2013)

vikb said:


> Yup. Most Chromags these days are PF, but not all.


Just the Root Down, and maybe the Canadian hand built equivalent are PF if I'm not mistaken; The rest are threaded.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

2sharp7 said:


> Just the Root Down, and maybe the Canadian hand built equivalent are PF if I'm not mistaken; The rest are threaded.


Looking at the 29er/27+ Chromag line up since that's the forum we are in:

- Arcturian = PF
- Doctahawk = PF
- Primer = PF
- Rootdown = PF
- Surface = threaded


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## 2sharp7 (Aug 29, 2013)

vikb said:


> Looking at the 29er/27+ Chromag line up since that's the forum we are in:
> 
> - Arcturian = PF
> - Doctahawk = PF
> ...


:thumbsup:
I forgot about the 2 new models, and I know nothing about them (obviously). When I was hardtail shopping a couple of years ago all of Chromags frames were threaded BB except Primer and Root Down. I wonder why they have some threaded and some PF?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

2sharp7 said:


> :thumbsup:
> I forgot about the 2 new models, and I know nothing about them (obviously). When I was hardtail shopping a couple of years ago all of Chromags frames were threaded BB except Primer and Root Down. I wonder why they have some threaded and some PF?


I'll never be able to relate to a mfgr. with PF and BSA mixed through the line.


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## sayzawn (Jul 15, 2011)

Anyone know what crank spindle width comes with the MC? My friend sold me some turbines for cheap that have a 124mm but he also has some with a 136mm.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Wanna say 136...


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## HOLSHOT59 (Jun 23, 2015)

Question for you guys. I have had my Child for a while now and am on my 3rd Maxxis 27.5x2.8 DHR 2 on the rear. I keep slicing sidewalls. Trying to come up with a solution for a more robust tire. I'm thinking of dropping to 27.5x2.6 front and rear and running a heavier casing tire. The other idea I am tossing around is running it as a mullet with a 29x2.6 front and 27.5x2.6 on the rear again with a heavier casing tire. What have you guys tried. Give me your thoughts.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

HOLSHOT59 said:


> Question for you guys. I have had my Child for a while now and am on my 3rd Maxxis 27.5x2.8 DHR 2 on the rear. I keep slicing sidewalls. Trying to come up with a solution for a more robust tire. I'm thinking of dropping to 27.5x2.6 front and rear and running a heavier casing tire. The other idea I am tossing around is running it as a mullet with a 29x2.6 front and 27.5x2.6 on the rear again with a heavier casing tire. What have you guys tried. Give me your thoughts.


Last season i was on 2.8 x 27.5 and i loved them.
This season i bought a new bike with 35imm on 2.6 x 27.5 and was planning to go on 2.8 but i also loved those 2.6. So from my experience on wide rims you have lots of options to find 2.6 or 2.8 for where you ride. Each year i buy lightly used tires so if i do not like them i can just resell. You might want 165mm arms to avoid pedal strikes, for me 175 should only be for road.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

*This may be backwards how I am thinking about it, but...*

Does the wider rim expose more sidewalls? What is the ID? Is the HR2 "true to size?" Is it potentially reasonable to consider a thinner ID rim? Wondering if the HR2 is not truly wide enough for the rim... Just spit-ballin here.


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## HOLSHOT59 (Jun 23, 2015)

33red said:


> Last season i was on 2.8 x 27.5 and i loved them.
> This season i bought a new bike with 35imm on 2.6 x 27.5 and was planning to go on 2.8 but i also loved those 2.6. So from my experience on wide rims you have lots of options to find 2.6 or 2.8 for where you ride. Each year i buy lightly used tires so if i do not like them i can just resell. You might want 165mm arms to avoid pedal strikes, for me 175 should only be for road.


I was leaning toward the mullet to get the bottom bracket back up from dropping to the 2.6.


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## HOLSHOT59 (Jun 23, 2015)

NJ Gator said:


> Does the wider rim expose more sidewalls? What is the ID? Is the HR2 "true to size?" Is it potentially reasonable to consider a thinner ID rim? Wondering if the HR2 is not truly wide enough for the rim... Just spit-ballin here.


You may have a point. I'm on Duroc 50 wheel with a 48imm width. The tire measures out just under 2.8 but the profile if the sidewall is almost strait if that makes sense. I am running a Minion DHR2 and just feel the side wall is not what it should be. I have minions on another bike in 2.5s both EXO casing and its just way thicker then on the 2.8. Maybe just a narrower wheel and hope the EXO+ become available soon in 2.8


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

HOLSHOT59 said:


> I was leaning toward the mullet to get the bottom bracket back up from dropping to the 2.6.


Yeah i understood your thinking. Either way might give a good result. I was just trying to show there are many options available to you. Last season i could get shorter arms for only 45$. Will the new wheel fit your fork? For me there was not room enough so the short arms was inexpensive and the result was fine.


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## HOLSHOT59 (Jun 23, 2015)

33red said:


> Yeah i understood your thinking. Either way might give a good result. I was just trying to show there are many options available to you. Last season i could get shorter arms for only 45$. Will the new wheel fit your fork? For me there was not room enough so the short arms was inexpensive and the result was fine.


The 29er wheel will fit the fork and I have wheel already just no tire.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

HOLSHOT59 said:


> Question for you guys. I have had my Child for a while now and am on my 3rd Maxxis 27.5x2.8 DHR 2 on the rear. I keep slicing sidewalls. Trying to come up with a solution for a more robust tire. I'm thinking of dropping to 27.5x2.6 front and rear and running a heavier casing tire. The other idea I am tossing around is running it as a mullet with a 29x2.6 front and 27.5x2.6 on the rear again with a heavier casing tire. What have you guys tried. Give me your thoughts.


I've not tried them in 27.5 but I really like my new Schwalbe Big Betty 29x2.4 in supertrail casing. This new casing is probably like an exo+ or even dd. It feels really stiff even running 24 psi à 205lbs. Paired with a Magic Mary 2.6 as a front, it really is a game changer in rocky, rooty, muddy conditions compared to DHF2.5/Agressor2.5 or Dissector 2.4/Rekon 2.4. They are available in 27.5 x 2.6


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

HOLSHOT59 said:


> Question for you guys. I have had my Child for a while now and am on my 3rd Maxxis 27.5x2.8 DHR 2 on the rear. I keep slicing sidewalls. Trying to come up with a solution for a more robust tire. I'm thinking of dropping to 27.5x2.6 front and rear and running a heavier casing tire. The other idea I am tossing around is running it as a mullet with a 29x2.6 front and 27.5x2.6 on the rear again with a heavier casing tire. What have you guys tried. Give me your thoughts.


I have a solution, stop looking for the sharpest obstacle and choose your line properly! Every time a bloke chooses to ride the glass recycling center, they have the same problem even running semi-pneumatic tires...

On a less sarcastic line... Work on the riding style and loosen up! Soaking up inertia with knees and elbows is all it takes to open up a world of possibility. Hell, I was trialsin under the Grand Avenue bridge on Sunday with Sunspot who happened to be wearing his Nobby Nic Performance 3.0's with no snakeoil, um, snakeskin. A few light rim touches exactly like I do with my KOXX Red Sky, no leaks, cuts or injury of any kind to report. The city dutifully built a trials park with wonderful boulder placement that can be ridden during a deluge. It has been a long trip to gaining trials abilities without car crushing bicycles! Hours of practice, several thousand hours have been burned in the name of progression.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

Send it!!! Middlechild is such a great bike for goofing around!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Lewis, that is the Middlechild living the dream! Good stuff...


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## thinkfuture (Aug 15, 2014)

*2020 vs 2021*

Does anyone know if there will be significant differences between the 2020 and 2021 MC? I'm thinking of picking up a frame and would probably snag one of the current batch (delivery Nov 30) if there won't be any radical geo changes, etc.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

thinkfuture said:


> Does anyone know if there will be significant differences between the 2020 and 2021 MC? I'm thinking of picking up a frame and would probably snag one of the current batch (delivery Nov 30) if there won't be any radical geo changes, etc.


Minor differences so far as I can see in the geo charts.

ST Length 
V1 470
V2 440

Standover;
V1 714
V2 698

Nothing that will have detrimental effect on ride quality. I would say, either V1 or V2 would serve well since the changes are cosmetic more than anything


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## thinkfuture (Aug 15, 2014)

Great, thanks, Banshee. After you posted the geo I dug around the RSD site more and found the chart for 2021. Thanks again.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

thinkfuture said:


> Great, thanks, Banshee. After you posted the geo I dug around the RSD site more and found the chart for 2021. Thanks again.


Glad to help. 
With the changes I noted, either frame is viable since the have little to no difference that is going to affect fit or feel on the grand scale.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Probably looking at a straight seat tube vs a a curved seat tube. However, there is a benefit that really stands out above all and makes the V2 rise above the V1 and makes it completely obsolete.

It will be available in purple.

BOOM. Mic drop- Gator out.

Too bad I am color blind.


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## thinkfuture (Aug 15, 2014)

The curved vs straight seat tube is probably right. One thing I noticed that might be significant related to that change is that the "Max Dropper Post Insertion Length" is now unlimited on the V2. Specs on the V1 are: Small 180mm, Medium 220mm, Large 240mm, XL 260mm.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NJ Gator said:


> Probably looking at a straight seat tube vs a a curved seat tube. However, there is a benefit that really stands out above all and makes the V2 rise above the V1 and makes it completely obsolete.
> 
> It will be available in purple.
> 
> ...


While it is not totally straight, it is adjusted for longer droppers.



thinkfuture said:


> The curved vs straight seat tube is probably right. One thing I noticed that might be significant related to that change is that the "Max Dropper Post Insertion Length" is now unlimited on the V2. Specs on the V1 are: Small 180mm, Medium 220mm, Large 240mm, XL 260mm.


This it the only reason for seat tube change.
Frankly, I travel light...


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Hey guys, just ordered a middle child! 

I do have a quick question. Im planning to build it up with a 120mm fox 34. Is this enough fork, or do you think the bb will be too low?

I’ll be running 29x2.5-2.8 tires (I change them out a lot, but that will be the average. 

My riding is all XC, no big jumps but it is rocky. Also, I pretty much have to stick with 175mm crank arms (38” inseam). 

I saw that hard tail party set his up with a 120mm fork but don’t know his crank length/curious to hear ride reports. 

Thanks!


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Hey guys, just ordered a middle child!
> 
> I do have a quick question. Im planning to build it up with a 120mm fox 34. Is this enough fork, or do you think the bb will be too low?
> 
> ...


I would suggest you to try shorter arms maybe from a friend or from a shop because i switched from 175 to 165(some areas i ride are rocky enough that few riders are there without snow). My inseam is 34.5 so for me it is 100% better. I guess you can decide after you try, maybe 170. Maybe you can find a 2.6 you like for rear(my new bike came with Rekon and i enjoyed it these last 3.5 months).


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## AJ Morris (Jul 4, 2020)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Hey guys, just ordered a middle child!
> 
> I do have a quick question. Im planning to build it up with a 120mm fox 34. Is this enough fork, or do you think the bb will be too low?
> 
> ...


I think it will be fine. The Middlechild has a relatively high BB anyway (by current standards) and you're going to be on 29's.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

I think the BB will be okay (with 29’ers) the head angle will be around 66/67- not bad at all- just different than intended.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Hey guys, just ordered a middle child!
> 
> I do have a quick question. Im planning to build it up with a 120mm fox 34. Is this enough fork, or do you think the bb will be too low?
> 
> ...


Congratz!!

Going 29, 120 should do good. What you really need to do is look at axle to crown length more so than travel. You will find that two forks, 120mm travel can have different A/C numbers. Research the forks in that range for A/C and see what works for ya.

Hartail's a shorter rider and can get away with shorter cranks. Good egg that rides like a man on a mission, he is tho'.

While Sunspot has 27.5x3.0's and a 150mm travel Pike, it makes the bike suited for the one that wrote the check. I run singlespeed with taller gears, live in the mountains, I need the torque only a longer lever can supply. As a geared bike (Sunspot has never been one) 170mm cranks are doable.

33red has a boner for short cranks... Go figure! In the regions where torque is not as needed as it is going from 7,000' to 10,000', I'll continue to appreciate climbing in a taller ratio.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

33red has a boner for short cranks... Go figure! In the regions where torque is not as needed as it is going from 7,000' to 10,000', I'll continue to appreciate climbing in a taller ratio.[/QUOTE]
You have no clue how much i laughed.
My power is real low.
A taller ratio = i push the bike.
So we try and find what works for us.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

33red said:


> 33red has a boner for short cranks... Go figure! In the regions where torque is not as needed as it is going from 7,000' to 10,000', I'll continue to appreciate climbing in a taller ratio.


You have no clue how much i laughed.
My power is real low.
A taller ratio = i push the bike.
So we try and find what works for us.[/QUOTE]

Then it worked! I was throwing that jab in jest... We all ride what works for us. But then, Sunspot doesn't like to be pushed around.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Well thanks for the input guys. New frame should be here any day, though it will be a little while before I can get it build up.

I will indeed be running 29'' with a 120 fork and 175mm cranks. I'll report back on it, but again, it wont be any time soon.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Well thanks for the input guys. New frame should be here any day, though it will be a little while before I can get it build up.
> 
> I will indeed be running 29'' with a 120 fork and 175mm cranks. I'll report back on it, but again, it wont be any time soon.


What flavor?? And, gratz!!


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

BansheeRune said:


> What flavor?? And, gratz!!


Ended up going with the aluminum teal frame in XL. I'm normally a steel-only guy, but it was what was available, and Hardtail Party said the steel MC was really stiff anyway, figured I'd just save the weight and money and "deal with" Aluminum.

Haven't really heard any ride reports about the AL frame as far as stiffness goes, so we'll see. I'm very excited and that teal is just beautiful. My poor Krampus will be a bear frame for a while until I get enough parts to build it up as a rigid SS once more.


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

I don't remember staying the steel MC is really stiff, but I do usually tell people it's not very compliant compared to other steel frames.

I feel like it dampens the vibrations better than most aluminum frames, but it's still not supple feeling. It feels like a chromag to me: overbuilt and not very complaint. But definitely built to take a beating.

I haven't ridden the aluminum mc yet.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

hardtail party said:


> I don't remember staying the steel MC is really stiff, but I do usually tell people it's not very compliant compared to other steel frames.
> 
> I feel like it dampens the vibrations better than most aluminum frames, but it's still not supple feeling. It feels like a chromag to me: overbuilt and not very complaint. But definitely built to take a beating.
> 
> I haven't ridden the aluminum mc yet.


Sorry, "really stiff" was just my interpretation of what you said I guess. But yes, I did hear you say on the B1ker Bar podcast that if you'd likely choose the AL version if you couldn't afford the Ti, so, like some of the listeners of yours you describe, I felt further justified in my purchase.

Just after that feel-good justification is all


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

Right on, no worries. Congrats, I think the al MC is an incredible bike for the price. I've ridden with a few friends who have them and they LOVE them. And they didn't mention them feeling stiff at all, and they weigh less than me. Congrats.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Ended up going with the aluminum teal frame in XL. I'm normally a steel-only guy, but it was what was available, and Hardtail Party said the steel MC was really stiff anyway, figured I'd just save the weight and money and "deal with" Aluminum.
> 
> Haven't really heard any ride reports about the AL frame as far as stiffness goes, so we'll see. I'm very excited and that teal is just beautiful. My poor Krampus will be a bear frame for a while until I get enough parts to build it up as a rigid SS once more.


I suspect the aluminum and steel will be close in feel. Steel will be slightly more compliant although, over built... That translates to a long life for Sunspot to haunt the trails for more years to come. I am intending to keep the V1 on the prowl until it just cannot do it anymore. Yus, I enjoy it that much!



DaddyFatStax said:


> Sorry, "really stiff" was just my interpretation of what you said I guess. But yes, I did hear you say on the B1ker Bar podcast that if you'd likely choose the AL version if you couldn't afford the Ti, so, like some of the listeners of yours you describe, I felt further justified in my purchase.
> 
> Just after that feel-good justification is all


Pfft! Who needs to justify a well designed frame that knows what the word "play" means?
Frankly, I do not see a reason the aluminum will be any different in the grand scheme of things, assuming plus wheels/tires that are not inflated to the max PSI embossed on the side of the tires... All I can see of the three options is a great bike and excellent riding.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Hardtail Party, thanks glad to hear it! Are they ever going to send you an Al frame for review? If it hasn't happened at this point I'd imagine maybe not? But what do I know.

BansheeRune, I know I know, just wanted to hear some good news about another purchase based on a "want" moreso than a "need". haha

Very excited about the build. Again, it'll be a while before I actually get it done.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Hardtail Party, thanks glad to hear it! Are they ever going to send you an Al frame for review? If it hasn't happened at this point I'd imagine maybe not? But what do I know.
> 
> BansheeRune, I know I know, just wanted to hear some good news about another purchase based on a "want" moreso than a "need". haha
> 
> Very excited about the build. Again, it'll be a while before I actually get it done.


No worries, my friend! Take your time and gather the parts that really make it your bike, then the build...

The best purchase I have done was my MC V1. I love the bike and the many awesome features. The ride quality is second to none for versatility. Everything I have subjected Sunspot to has been an epic experience. Singlespeed has been overwhelmingly excellent! The bike just rides so well. I live in the Rocky Mountains, prime mountain bike habitat is everywhere. Hitting trails and leaving geared suspension bikes in the rearview is a blessing. Ascending is as good as descending. Flow trails are spectacular. With that said, you are in for a treat once you are on the trail...

Sunspot might be pithy and have an attitude however, I love my bike!


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## hardtail party (Oct 12, 2012)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Hardtail Party, thanks glad to hear it! Are they ever going to send you an Al frame for review? If it hasn't happened at this point I'd imagine maybe not? But what do I know.


At one point alex and i talked about it, but i don't think it's going to be happen. I'd sure like to try one someday.


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Well thanks for the input guys. New frame should be here any day, though it will be a little while before I can get it build up.
> 
> I will indeed be running 29'' with a 120 fork and 175mm cranks. I'll report back on it, but again, it wont be any time soon.


I run my MC with 29x2.6, 140mm fork and 175mm cranks. No issues at all. BB could be lower, but it's not a big deal. I suspect you will be fine with your planned set up. If anyone wants a lower BB the RS291 is coming out next year.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

AlpineMTBTraining said:


> I run my MC with 29x2.6, 140mm fork and 175mm cranks. No issues at all. BB could be lower, but it's not a big deal. I suspect you will be fine with your planned set up. If anyone wants a lower BB the RS291 is coming out next year.


Frankly, the bb is good where it is. The last thing I wanna put up is getting stuck on the speed bump in front of the package store and have call AAA to get the damn bike offa there! Preferred is high enough for good trialsy riding. Lower and I may as well lash a bag of concrete mix on the handlebar. That would be funless!!


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## Rukstar (Jul 17, 2020)

hardtail party said:


> Right on, no worries. Congrats, I think the al MC is an incredible bike for the price. I've ridden with a few friends who have them and they LOVE them. And they didn't mention them feeling stiff at all, and they weigh less than me. Congrats.


THIS.

I've got the Al MC and doesn't feel as stiff


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Rukstar said:


> THIS.
> 
> I've got the Al MC and doesn't feel as stiff


To what are you comparing it? Just curious, as that is left out.

I will add that Alex was sharp to go with Ti, steel and aluminum as options as the Middlechild has proven to be a top notch frame design.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Alright middle children, I now have a couple rides in on the aluminum Middle Child, 120 ml fork, 29'' wheels. 

In a word: damn near perfection. Okay that was three words.

In more than three words: This thing seriously rocks. I live in Chattanooga, and the geometry is just perfect for these trails. Tight, twisty, steep-punchy, rocky, rooty, eastern slop. Climbs better than my steeper HA bikes and yes, descends better as well. Just objectively better. I even feel like skinnies are easier.

I will say the aluminum rides a little stiffer than my steel Krampus, which I only really notice on harder hits, and even then the difference is mild.

If I were to order a custom frame, I really don't know what I'd change. I feel like this bike is it. I'm even loving the exact bottom bracket height of this rig on 29ers. Not too high, not too low.

Now I just reeeeeaaally really want that Ti version, and hope it isn't somehow discontinued by the time I can afford it, if that ever even happens...

But yes, Rukstar, what exactly are you comparing to? Still curious to hear a direct comparison of the steel and aluminum versions.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Alright middle children, I now have a couple rides in on the aluminum Middle Child, 120 ml fork, 29'' wheels.
> 
> In a word: damn near perfection. Okay that was three words.
> 
> ...


He sees the light!!!  Glad to hear the report after all that anticipation was killing you with fire! 

As for custom... The only thing I would change is BB height for an even more trials friendly ride. Since my bike is a singelspeed, the tiralsy feel is there but if I could get the BB to -25, I would be a very happy camper. 
Frankly, the stock drop is doable and works well on 27.5 x 3.0's. Yup, I'm in the 3.fvckyeah camp...:thumbsup:


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## Rukstar (Jul 17, 2020)

BansheeRune said:


> To what are you comparing it? Just curious, as that is left out.


2019 Commencal meta am ht and recently my friend started MTB and has Marin bobcat trail 5


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Rukstar said:


> 2019 Commencal meta am ht and recently my friend started MTB and has Marin bobcat trail 5


Now we can relate to your input! Middlechild is in a class of its own since it is a plus.


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## brownplus (Mar 31, 2005)

BansheeRune said:


> Now we can relate to your input! Middlechild is in a class of its own since it is a plus.


THE MC alu is better!!! Well, imho have tried both Fe and Alu and liked the alu better for weight and it seemed a little more forgiving???? crazy. After 68 steel hardtails i ended up with the alu MC and a steel custom copy of the banshee paradox (my SS bike in 29) and i like the MC better than ben and jerrys...and I run it mullet with 29/2.4 up front and 2.75/2.8 in rear and 140 fork = the best ride ev-ah. I ditched a pivot mach FS for the MC as it is sooo.... perfect.
so...ya did good on your choice.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

brownplus said:


> THE MC alu is better!!! Well, imho have tried both Fe and Alu and liked the alu better for weight and it seemed a little more forgiving???? crazy. After 68 steel hardtails i ended up with the alu MC and a steel custom copy of the banshee paradox (my SS bike in 29) and i like the MC better than ben and jerrys...and I run it mullet with 29/2.4 up front and 2.75/2.8 in rear and 140 fork = the best ride ev-ah. I ditched a pivot mach FS for the MC as it is sooo.... perfect.
> so...ya did good on your choice.


Honestly, there are not many changes that I would bring to the MC. Classic iron, beer cans or Ti, I'm good with where it stands.
My primary change would be -20 BB if not just do -0. Then the trials will be even easier and better form. With the singlespeed setup and current weight, I really cannot find a complaint in the grand scheme of things. Alex has suggested gears, saying "you'll never go back". I cannot bring myself to do it since the SS is working exquisitely and I can leave geared suspensions in the rearview without too much effort. Play on the features in general is natural feeling. Mmm natty! Yus, I like natural features over man made! As trialsy as my pithy little yellow dirt ripper is, I'll be right at home and in my comfort zone. Sunspot weighs ~28 #'s, I weigh 165 and run the tires at 10f, 12r for most of my Fruita, GJ runs. 4BBL wide open on Horsethief is typical. Tabuache is another haunt that Sunspot really shines. Tech and more. This pithy little bastard belongs there! MC Jeepin has never been so freakin' good! High country in the Flattops, late spring, now we're riding some fine game and ATV routes through a flower garden! Back into the trees, we have air conditioned dirt races among friends. 
I would say, my MC is here for the long haul. Yus, I am hoarding some 3.0's for both the MC and Wildcat. 2.6 and smaller do not come close to making the cut, not within 100 lightyears!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Now that we're back... Time to resume where we were so rudely interrupted!!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My GF has been riding her FS 29er a bunch this winter and after every ride she's appalled how trashed it is spends a bunch of time cleaning it. I keep pointing out she's got a fine hardtail she could be riding instead that won't end up needing as much love after muddy/wet rides. She finally came around so I installed her DHF/DHR 27 x 2.8" winter tires on that bike and some MTB riser bars. The Rekons and the Soma Dream comfort bars will go back on come summer when she wants to grind out big days of non-tech riding.

I needed to get the shock serviced on her FS bike so that's in the mail to Vorsprung in Whistler and I'll service the fork on that bike at home while we wait for the shock to come back. In the meantime the MC will be getting dirty!


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## 9GUY9 (Jul 14, 2007)

BansheeRune said:


> Now that we're back... Time to resume where we were so rudely interrupted!!


I got notice of your post and thought maybe we were treated to a RSD manufactures forum.

I am still loving my Middle kid. Since its winter in MN I finally gave in and made a manual trainer. So my middle child has found a home there.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Vik, that MC will be happy to get grungy and offer up a good ride!



9GUY9 said:


> I got notice of your post and thought maybe we were treated to a RSD manufactures forum.
> 
> I am still loving my Middle kid. Since its winter in MN I finally gave in and made a manual trainer. So my middle child has found a home there.


I am advocating for it. Dunno if it will come to be however, I'ma tryin'! RSD has spent some coin advertising here and should have it and deserves it. There is a generic forum for all others, but that would be the search for a needle in a haystack section, no bueno...

Manual trainer sounds good. Middlechild might not be amused but what the hell, should be of benefit in the end.


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## GDUREF (Jan 13, 2021)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Alright middle children, I now have a couple rides in on the aluminum Middle Child, 120 ml fork, 29'' wheels.
> 
> In a word: damn near perfection. Okay that was three words.
> 
> ...


A direct comparision would be awesome. I really don't know which Middlechild to get. Steel or alu? Alu one is already pushing my budget since the shipping cost for a full bike is 375 dollar to Belgium. Steel version ships bout six weeks sooner and has better overal parts. Really like the raw alu finish on the other side, looks sick and I can upgrade the alu version over time.

But if the steel frame is exponentially better I might take the plunge. Hopefully someone can shed some light on this dilemma  man this is difficult case!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

GDUREF,

Frankly, the MC line has the same geometry and measurements. Now it gets down to budget and material choice. Will it be aluminum, steel or Ti?? 
The difference will be end result weight, color option and a couple component package choices. 
Would I trade my steel, "tennis ball yellow" frame for an alternative? Not on your life!! Would I add a Ti build eventually? Perhaps so. 
Honestly, I have not looked back since I bought the bike. I love it as a singlespeed since it's right down to basics and playing with a fun time bike is where I like to be.


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## stm32disco (Jun 7, 2017)

Is this a shot of the chromoly v2 with the shorter seat tube:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CJ_OEfsBCnL/
?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

stm32disco said:


> Is this a shot of the chromoly v2 with the shorter seat tube:
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CJ_OEfsBCnL/
> ?


Possibly so. Hard to determine from the pic tho'.


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## brien (Mar 30, 2017)

any review on rsd mc 29er with 2.6 tires and 130mm travel whats the bb height thanks planning to build the latest purple rsd mc thanks


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## RSD Bikes (Sep 18, 2009)

stm32disco said:


> Is this a shot of the chromoly v2 with the shorter seat tube:
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CJ_OEfsBCnL/
> ?


No, it isn't. The site has a few shots of the V2 frame in purple (Medium) - 2021 Middlechild Chromoly - Fat Bike | Mountain Bikes Toronto | Online Bicycle Store - RSD Bikes


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

GDUREF said:


> A direct comparision would be awesome. I really don't know which Middlechild to get. Steel or alu? Alu one is already pushing my budget since the shipping cost for a full bike is 375 dollar to Belgium. Steel version ships bout six weeks sooner and has better overal parts. Really like the raw alu finish on the other side, looks sick and I can upgrade the alu version over time.
> 
> But if the steel frame is exponentially better I might take the plunge. Hopefully someone can shed some light on this dilemma  man this is difficult case!


I will say that reviews have said the steel version is a bit stiff for a steel frame. In that case it's hard to justify the steel over aluminum, given that you will both pay more and also be riding a heavier bike. The steel version of course looks nicer, but that doesn't make it win out for me, in this particular case.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

DaddyFatStax said:


> I will say that reviews have said the steel version is a bit stiff for a steel frame. In that case it's hard to justify the steel over aluminum, given that you will both pay more and also be riding a heavier bike. The steel version of course looks nicer, but that doesn't make it win out for me, in this particular case.


If your talking about Steve's review of Hardtail party, he said many time that the steel MC is still "softer" than most aluminum frame. Also the steel MC is pretty cheap vs some offering tested on his channel (Banshee, Cotic, Canfield, etc) Some aluminum frames are good on paper geo wise (like the Commencal Meta HT) but won't ride as nice as the MC (take a look at Steve's review of this bike). So unless we have a direct comparison I would not jump to conclusion... Of course, when you look at price and weight, aluminum is the logical choice. I think if you ride 27.5+ it's not that big of a deal also. In this setup, the MC is far from being bone-jarring


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Given that I run 3.0's exclusively on my steel MC, I cannot say it is stiffer than beer cans or not. I have no desire to overlinflate the tires to find out if there is merit in the claims some have made in that regard however, the performance of the bike is present and blatantly obvious. Does it weigh an ounce or three more?? Prolly, not that I really give a rats to compare an F350 Superduty to a Toyota SR5... This bike will be haunting the dirt for decades and I'm perfectly content with that. While I am not dissing or datting the aluminum option, it was not offered in the 19 model so it is what it is.
Frankly, the Ti version is quite attractive but that will take sorting the funding and making the plan for such to come to be.
Would I own an aluminum MC? Why the hell not! If the same blueprint is used to make all MC's regardless of material choice, I'll ride one in any material simply for the performance of a very well sorted frame geo and overall design.

I am over the drama queen milligram and nanogram counting these days. Fvck, I have a bad heart and other health issues and still have the ponies to ride my 26 # steel bike and, and, and, it has a one speed, automatic transmission and towing package brakes! 😁


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

All hardtails with a big fork that run in the same vein as the Middlechild are going to be stiff. I've had a couple now (Middlechild and Nimble 9) and they're just way overbuilt, and rightfully so when they're made to be ridden the way they are. With regards to the steel vs aluminum, they're both going to be stiff but in my opinion I hate the way aluminum carries vibration. Steel AM frames ride stiff, but the steel itself still dampens the smaller vibrations better than aluminum in my experience. I had my Middlechild set up with 29x2.6s and a set of ENVE bars, and while the frame itself felt very stiff the overall ride was very muted.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Overbuilt?? Hardly... They are built to do a specific job. That job does not include becoming a pile of tubes on the ground just because one of us flew the thing off some nice little feature. So, in the end, we get folks that are expecting the same ride characteristics of a minimalist XC frame and they have this expectation of the frame being compliant. I will not say the MC is not, it is to a point. Again, many things do come into the mix... Wheels flex, tires give, 820mm bars. Lower tire pressure masks some of the chatter. My 4x bike ran 18f 22r on Valhalla since that system opened, wearing 2.4's. Now the Middlechild and Wildcat are doing the same place with 10f 12r with 3.0's on i45's.


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## SpartyinWI (Jun 24, 2016)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Alright middle children, I now have a couple rides in on the aluminum Middle Child, 120 ml fork, 29'' wheels.
> 
> In a word: damn near perfection. Okay that was three words.
> 
> ...


Can RSD provide a custom fork like a 120, instead of the 140 Pike Select? Just wondering.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

SpartyinWI said:


> Can RSD provide a custom fork like a 120, instead of the 140 Pike Select? Just wondering.


You could go with the aluminum fork intended for the Sergeant. It is boost with 510mm A/C.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

SpartyinWI said:


> Can RSD provide a custom fork like a 120, instead of the 140 Pike Select? Just wondering.


You can get a 120mm airshaft and have it installed at your first service (a 50can$ part). I highly doubt that RSD would provide a different fork since they state on their website that you cannot swap build from one model to another...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Lewis, I can relate to Alex putting the limit on part swaps. The inventory control would be a pita!
You are quite right in changing the air shaft to alter the travel and A/C of a Pike or other fork. 

Personally, I wouldn't go there since I don't want to dump the front end into a faceplant position.


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## SpartyinWI (Jun 24, 2016)

LewisQC said:


> You can get a 120mm airshaft and have it installed at your first service (a 50can$ part). I highly doubt that RSD would provide a different fork since they state on their website that you cannot swap build from one model to another...


Thanks. I think 140 is fine - midwest trails, maybe 'aggressive XC' with lots of rock chatter.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

BansheeRune said:


> Lewis, I can relate to Alex putting the limit on part swaps. The inventory control would be a pita!
> You are quite right in changing the air shaft to alter the travel and A/C of a Pike or other fork.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't go there since I don't want to dump the front end into a faceplant position.


Yep. You are loosing a bit of HA (66?), steepening the seat tube. Main problem would be lowering stack. But Steve (hardtail party) tried it on is Ti MC and for someone looking for a faster lighter build, it surely seems to work fine...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

LewisQC said:


> Yep. You are loosing a bit of HA (66?), steepening the seat tube. Main problem would be lowering stack. But Steve (hardtail party) tried it on is Ti MC and for someone looking for a faster lighter build, it surely seems to work fine...


Manufacturing pedal strikes is a deal breaker! Lest you only ride on streets and sidewalks and never, ever lean the buike while under power! Thanks but fuhgeddaboudit! If the MC was designed with a 0 BB or +BB we could install a lowering kit for cruise night on the boulevard, I suppose!
Head angle changing by a dgree or two is easy to deal with, stack too however, that BB is low to begin with.
If I had my way, the BB would not exceed -25, period! Trials would be so freakin good, not to mention getting rowdy with zero, zero, zero effort. Dammit! Now I need to ride the Red Sky for a little +35 BB action.



SpartyinWI said:


> Thanks. I think 140 is fine - midwest trails, maybe 'aggressive XC' with lots of rock chatter.


I think you will have more fun with the playful stance of the bike with a 140 vs. dumping the bars and BB into the planet. Frankly, I love the form and function since it is stupid playful and feels awesome on every trail I have haunted by Middlechild, be it descending, ascending, tech or trialsin. It just does a fantastic job and feels natural in doing so.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

I've been running 165 or 170mm (edit: I'm talking about crankset!!) on my bike the last two years so I don't think it would be that bad on a hardtail for me... But I agree with you; 140mm is really a sweet spot for an aggressive do-it-all hardtail. I have a 160mm Lykik for my Nimble 9 but I'll probably end up buying a new air-shaft to lower it to 140mm


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Lewis, I have a 150 Pike on the Wildcat and a 140 on the Sunspot. Frankly, the two are very unique unto themselves but the 140 on the one speed automatic is right in the sweet spot of "all play, all the freakin' time". Feels so much like it belongs and is indeed a natural extension of a rider/bike unit.


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## SpartyinWI (Jun 24, 2016)

LewisQC said:


> I've been running 165 or 170mm (edit: I'm talking about crankset!!) on my bike the last two years so I don't think it would be that bad on a hardtail for me... But I agree with you; 140mm is really a sweet spot for an aggressive do-it-all hardtail. I have a 160mm Lykik for my Nimble 9 but I'll probably end up buying a new air-shaft to lower it to 140mm


Interesting -can you compare the Middle child and Nimble 9? The complete bike Nimble 9 comes with a 150mm fork. It seems like overkill for my trails but I don't know what I don't know. Thx.


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## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

SpartyinWI said:


> Interesting -can you compare the Middle child and Nimble 9? The complete bike Nimble 9 comes with a 150mm fork. It seems like overkill for my trails but I don't know what I don't know. Thx.


I would think the nimble 9 would be a little more compliant frame for you in WI. Just look at hardtail party reviews. Also the nimble 9 BB height is not super low like some newer ones. If 150 seemed like to much you could lower it down to 130 even with no problem for WI. Also if you are going to run in 29er mode, on the other side of the spectrum the RSD will have a really high BB in 29 mode.


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

SpartyinWI said:


> Interesting -can you compare the Middle child and Nimble 9? The complete bike Nimble 9 comes with a 150mm fork. It seems like overkill for my trails but I don't know what I don't know. Thx.


I wish I could... But my frame should be delivered in april. I have all the parts ready (quite a nice build). I was torn between the MC, Banshee Paradox and the Nimble 9 (also Cotic Solaris at some point). I think either bike would have been a great choice. I think the Nimble 9, despite the 150mm fork (actually, you can run 140, 150 or 160mm), is less"hardcore" than the others. Reach is long, stack is high, super short chainstay, a steep set tube but a not-that-slack headangle (66 with 150mm fork). Beside Hardtail Party's one, there's not many reviews on the web. From his video, I understood that the Nimble 9 was compliant, playful and maybe a little bit lighter, but less capable in really hard/steep stuff. But Steve's build was with a 130mm fork (same axle to crown than 140mm). It was also cheeper than the Banshee. Anyway you should check Steve's review if not already done as he regularly compare with other bikes. I've only road a small MC (and I'm 6'2"!!) in 27.5+ so it will be hard for me to compare with the N9...

Here's a nice build: 2020 Canfield Nimble 9 - Cherry Cola // Steel Hardtail
Now back to the MIddleChild


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## da_kube (Aug 6, 2019)

kryten said:


> Thanks...so still curious, even the more expensive steel frame builds come still with SRC hubs then?


I was curious about this, too, so I messaged Sun Ringle. SRC and SRX are basically the same. Here's what they said: They're the same hub. SRC (Duroc Comp) uses J-bend spokes, SRX (Duroc Expert) accepts straight pull spokes. The ratchet ring and freehub are the same." They're both 12 degrees (30 points) engagement. I know some sites say the SRX is 90 points, but that is incorrect.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

True but overall a strong wheelset- engagement is not at all instaneous but it is very snappy


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## stm32disco (Jun 7, 2017)

Here's a steel 2021 in large (still in winter mode with 29's). The shorter seat tube should allow me to run a 170mm dropper. It currently has a 150. I'm ~6ft.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

da_kube said:


> I was curious about this, too, so I messaged Sun Ringle. SRC and SRX are basically the same. Here's what they said: They're the same hub. SRC (Duroc Comp) uses J-bend spokes, SRX (Duroc Expert) accepts straight pull spokes. The ratchet ring and freehub are the same." They're both 12 degrees (30 points) engagement. I know some sites say the SRX is 90 points, but that is incorrect.


At least a geared bike doesn't blow up low end drivers like my trials bike does. The less freeplay, the better for my needs and expectations. I have a 2016 model of the Sergeant V1's wheels on my MC that will go away when the Onyx budget has been sorted. There again, being a One Speed Automatic, the MC needs that kind of responsiveness especially during trialsy riding. 
As for out on the flow trails, it isn't a bother. Can say, it has been very reliable.


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## da_kube (Aug 6, 2019)

BansheeRune said:


> At least a geared bike doesn't blow up low end drivers like my trials bike does. The less freeplay, the better for my needs and expectations. I have a 2016 model of the Sergeant V1's wheels on my MC that will go away when the Onyx budget has been sorted. There again, being a One Speed Automatic, the MC needs that kind of responsiveness especially during trialsy riding.
> As for out on the flow trails, it isn't a bother. Can say, it has been very reliable.


For that price, I think reliable wheels are all you can ask for, and those wheels seem to have generally favorable reviews for that. I'll upgrade the hub as well at some point, but 12 degrees isn't horrible. It's about the going rate for a bike in that price range, maybe even a little better.

FYI to anyone interested. Some hubs allow a ratchet ring or freehub pawl upgrade to improve engagement. The Sun Ringle does not.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

da_kube said:


> For that price, I think reliable wheels are all you can ask for, and those wheels seem to have generally favorable reviews for that. I'll upgrade the hub as well at some point, but 12 degrees isn't horrible. It's about the going rate for a bike in that price range, maybe even a little better.
> 
> FYI to anyone interested. Some hubs allow a ratchet ring or freehub pawl upgrade to improve engagement. The Sun Ringle does not.


DT comes to mind... At the price of their hub followed by the upgrade price, I'll be knocking on the door of the Onyx not only for the zero lash engagement but living color! Yus, they are absurd in price however, they earned it with having incorporated a sprag. Sprags have been around since before the automatic transmission.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Quick photo of my Middle Child a few minutes after being "unboxed."

This is a warranty replacement frame and it is gorgeous. I post this picture for 2 reasons- I know several people are waiting for their bikes and frames to ship- believe me they are worth the wait!!!!! Also I wanted to give Alex and RSD a shout out- I mentioned previously this is a warranty replacement and the company stands behind their product.

So if you are waiting for a bike- it will pay off and you are dealing with a great company!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

There is no other like RSD and Alex when it comes to taking care of business...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Warm weather has been in and out lately. Sunspot is wearing a pair of Rocket Ron 3.0's and will be testing his motor on some dirt on Saturday! Trouble is, Sunspot knows how to get into a 4BBL and raise a little dust. Frankly, I'm thinking there will be some sorely needed maintenance on the trails. Clearing a little deadfall and repairing the features is this time of year's pleasure tho' and I would be looking forward to the deed. 

Now, where the hell is Alex and a ride report from the northern fella that made this bike possible??? Huh, huh, Alex??? Your homework is overdue, Mr.!!


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## altasnob (Feb 9, 2021)

2021 delivery was recently pushed out from mid April to July 2021.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

altasnob said:


> 2021 delivery was recently pushed out from mid April to July 2021.


Common with everything lately. COOTIES 19 has left a mark and still continues to do so. 
Looking at components, lead time is beyond absurd.


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## RSD Bikes (Sep 18, 2009)

BansheeRune said:


> Common with everything lately. COOTIES 19 has left a mark and still continues to do so.
> Looking at components, lead time is beyond absurd.


Absurd is an understatement.... but indeed, frames are more-less on time and complete bikes delivery has been pushed to July.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

RSD Bikes said:


> Absurd is an understatement.... but indeed, frames are more-less on time and complete bikes delivery has been pushed to July.


Alex, the issue I have is not just bike parts but auto parts as well as elctronic gear. Absurd! No wonder we cannot get bike parts, everyone's out riding instead of working.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

New Bike Day


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Congratz, screamingbunny! Now it's on... Adventure is going to be incredible.


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## SpartyinWI (Jun 24, 2016)

screamingbunny said:


> New Bike Day
> View attachment 1924991


Heck of a fork!


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

screamingbunny said:


> New Bike Day
> View attachment 1924991


Nice color! Looks similar to my Instigator 2.0- very cool!!!!


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## kryten (Mar 8, 2012)

Does anyone know if a 34T or a 32 oval chainring fits original v1 steel Middlechild?


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

BansheeRune said:


> Congratz, screamingbunny! Now it's on... Adventure is going to be incredible.





kryten said:


> Does anyone know if a 34T or a 32 oval chainring fits original v1 steel Middlechild?


I would email Alex- he is very god at responding


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

kryten said:


> Does anyone know if a 34T or a 32 oval chainring fits original v1 steel Middlechild?


34 would appear to not. I have 30:14 and clearance looks like 32 would be maximum


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

Hi Guys! My daughter need a new frame or bike soon cause she's not confortable on her medium Commencal Meta HT though it's supposed to be from 165cm to 178cm. The reach is short at 420mm. She's 174cm (5'8.5") and probably almost at her tallest but she might take another inch or so... I'm wondering if you guys between 5'9 and 5'11 are more on medium or large? I'm pretty sure she won't grow pass 5'11 but is a medium to small at this height? I'm just tired to buy new bikes every season... She likes the turquoise and from my understanding there's still 5 available on preorder. My other option is buying a Meta HT essential 27.5 large but overall I like the RSD better. We would keep the Commencal medium for my wife...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Lewis, Sounds medium since the MC is rather nice and luxuriously long. Check in with Alex to firm up the recommendation. 
A family with a family of MC's, how can a fella improve upon that, now??


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## LewisQC (Jul 3, 2013)

BansheeRune said:


> Lewis, Sounds medium since the MC is rather nice and luxuriously long.


Yes that's what i'm thinking... Honestly this bike is overkill for her but there's nothing cheaper but still decent spec wise available for the year to come. Going 27.5+ instead of 29er on her Commencal will improv confort and confidence... And she like that "pasta dental" color


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

LewisQC said:


> Yes that's what i'm thinking... Honestly this bike is overkill for her but there's nothing cheaper but still decent spec wise available for the year to come. Going 27.5+ instead of 29er on her Commencal will improv confort and confidence... And she like that "pasta dental" color


Hey Dad, I wanna bike! 

The MC is a fine bike at a very good price.


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## michaelandk2 (May 15, 2019)

Any update from anyone waiting for a v2 MC? My wife is very sad it's supposed to be july sometime . The most annoying part is we have access to enough parts that we could probably spec just about anything missing :\ and it sounds like the frames are in.


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

LewisQC said:


> Hi Guys! My daughter need a new frame or bike soon cause she's not confortable on her medium Commencal Meta HT though it's supposed to be from 165cm to 178cm. The reach is short at 420mm. She's 174cm (5'8.5") and probably almost at her tallest but she might take another inch or so... I'm wondering if you guys between 5'9 and 5'11 are more on medium or large? I'm pretty sure she won't grow pass 5'11 but is a medium to small at this height? I'm just tired to buy new bikes every season... She likes the turquoise and from my understanding there's still 5 available on preorder. My other option is buying a Meta HT essential 27.5 large but overall I like the RSD better. We would keep the Commencal medium for my wife...


Im 5'11" on a medium. She should be fine on it. If she doesn't grow much she will find a large too big.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

At 6’ I have no issue with my large. 
5-11” might have a good fit on a large with a 35mm stem. I run a 70mm stem.


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## madtho (Nov 11, 2014)

Hope folks will chime in when their orders start coming in. I’d especially like to see some shots of the purple!

My patience engine is running steady, and I’m re-re-re-repairing the bike it’s replacing.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

madtho said:


> Hope folks will chime in when their orders start coming in. I'd especially like to see some shots of the purple!
> 
> My patience engine is running steady, and I'm re-re-re-repairing the bike it's replacing.


My buddy got a steel MC frame only several weeks ago. He's enjoying it so far.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

In my area Quebec, riders waiting are a long list. I might get my 2021 Giant next week(2 weeks later than scheduled) but brand to brand, model to model
there is kind of a lotery. Trying to order a 12S chain to protect that cassette. Planning ahead seems wise.
BACK ORDER
EMPTY SHELVES
EMPTY FLOOR
only a few very expansive bikes can be found.
I read someone got his new RSD but i do not remember wich one.
It seems retailers have no clue.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Hey all! Recently had an opportunity to convert my RSD Middle Child to a single speed due my rear wheel needing some TLC- Maaaaaan it was awesome and was very very very very easy to do. I have ridden SS for years but the 12 speed drivetrain on my RSD MC has spoiled me the last year, but I swapped my SS rear wheel in and boom great time. So if anyone is curious about the swap it is pretty straightforward. I used an axle conversion kit and it worked great- if you have micro spline Boone technologies makes a MS SS cog. Just thought I'd share.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NJ Gator said:


> Hey all! Recently had an opportunity to convert my RSD Middle Child to a single speed due my rear wheel needing some TLC- Maaaaaan it was awesome and was very very very very easy to do. I have ridden SS for years but the 12 speed drivetrain on my RSD MC has spoiled me the last year, but I swapped my SS rear wheel in and boom great time. So if anyone is curious about the swap it is pretty straightforward. I used an axle conversion kit and it worked great- if you have micro spline Boone technologies makes a MS SS cog. Just thought I'd share.


Heya Gator!

My MC has been SS since initial build, with no interest in going geared. The change of a geared to SS is as simple as removing a few parts, installing a spacer kit and cog, chain and set tension.


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## in the trees (Mar 24, 2005)

5’10” rider. Looking for some opinions on a Medium or Large sized frame. I’ve seen RSD’s size chart, but looking to see what size riders are on. Thanks.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

in the trees said:


> 5'10" rider. Looking for some opinions on a Medium or Large sized frame. I've seen RSD's size chart, but looking to see what size riders are on. Thanks.


That can be a difficult one... Shorter stem/narrower bar on a large or medium with a little more bar/stem since the MC's do run long in the front end.
6' rider, all leg and arm and short in the torso here and like the length of a large. Nothing makes for a cramped ride like knees hitting the grips with every pedal stroke!
Next suggestion, follow up with Alex with inseam and arm length for a solid opinion. Seriously, Alex has been a great resource since he's had the opportunity to test the fitment of both, side by side.


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

in the trees said:


> 5'10" rider. Looking for some opinions on a Medium or Large sized frame. I've seen RSD's size chart, but looking to see what size riders are on. Thanks.


New member here , you probably got your answer by now but I wrote to Alex with the same question recently and he suggested a large for me. This is my general description that I sent him:

5'-10" normal build. Weigh 180 pounds. Inseam 33, and my arms are a bit on the long side, if that makes a difference regarding reach (not sure how you measure reach but from the tip of my shoulder to my wrist is 24". If I measure from my chest next to my shoulder straight out to my wrist it is 19".


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

I am 


Rob801 said:


> New member here , you probably got your answer by now but I wrote to Alex with the same question recently and he suggested a large for me. This is my general description that I sent him:
> 
> 5'-10" normal build. Weigh 180 pounds. Inseam 33, and my arms are a bit on the long side, if that makes a difference regarding reach (not sure how you measure reach but from the tip of my shoulder to my wrist is 24". If I measure from my chest next to my shoulder straight out to my wrist it is 19".


I am very similar to you. For sizing I like using Lee McCormacks RAD sizing method. I describe what it is and how to measure in this video. 




I fit in between M and L (you likely do as well) I chose a medium Middlechild because I wanted the bike to be more agile for less technical trails and pumptracks.

I also ride a M Wildcat, which has similar reach/stack to a L Middlechild which give me a longer and more stable bike for the type of riding I do on it.

You're getting an awesome bike! Pick the size that will work for you based on how you plan to ride it.


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

AlpineMTBTraining said:


> I am
> 
> I am very similar to you. For sizing I like using Lee McCormacks RAD sizing method. I describe what it is and how to measure in this video.
> 
> ...


(Sorry, this ended up a little long winded)

Thanks, That was a really good video! My main problem is, I don't have a bike at all right now. I did do the broom handle mark on the wall... Mine ended up at 82.5cm, I just can't do anything else in the video.

I'm also not sure exactly how I'm going to ride, it's been a while (I mean I do and I don't... it'll be varied, I've only hiked the trails I will be riding, and it's a little hard for me to translate to the options available today).

I relocated from Denmark back to the US in 18' and my bike over there was a large 2010 Cube Reaction (w/very different geometry), so it's been about five years since I've been on a MTB at all. That being said, I lived in the country surrounded by forest and rode a lot back then.

Now I live near Angeles National Forest, but am technically in the desert. I don't think I'll be doing jumps and that kind of thing but you never know (I'm not that young any more so bones take longer to heal ?). At the moment it looks like I will mostly be doing trail riding in the extensive foothills behind my residence. They are primarily hard packed dirt trails, no extremely sharp back to back switchbacks or super technical stuff, but still some _fun_ routs if I choose to take them them, and DRY 95% of the year. Sometimes I may just take a gravel road along the aqueduct. Theres also a lot of wide fire breaks.

But knowing me, as I start to get more confident on the bike, I'll probably start to challenge myself more and more (if I do start jumping, they will be smallish and I'm definately not going to be doing tricks in the air).

I had originally ordered a large AL-V2 29 build, way back in February. I recently canceled that order... for reasons, AND as I compared the builds more closely between the AL and the Cr-Mo, I realised I'd rather get the build that comes with the Cr-Mo (so am also spending more than originally planned).

I have not re-ordered yet but I am close to doing so. It's down the purple frame and figuring out weather to get the 29 or the 27.5 build... and I'm still leaning towards the large (think I'm about 60/40 in favour of the 27.5 build at the moment, but I always wanted a 29er). Alex suggested the 27.5, and I basically know the pro's and cons with both, It's still really a hard decision when I can see I will get benefits from either one in different situations... I have to decide though. Next order I make is final.

But yes, whatever size and build I end up getting, I can't wait to get my MC and know I will be very, very happy with it . No matter how I slice it it will be a huge difference/improvement from my last bike (nothing against the Cube per say, a lot has changed since 2010)!


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

Rob801 said:


> (Sorry, this ended up a little long winded)
> 
> Thanks, That was a really good video! My main problem is, I don't have a bike at all right now. I did do the broom handle mark on the wall... Mine ended up at 82.5cm, I just can't do anything else in the video.
> 
> ...


Your RAD/Spread measurement is so close to mine i can guarantee you will be able to make either M or L work. Take that as peace of mind. You can't make a wrong decision. I have a personal preference for a smaller bike because of my riding style, even though I ride very technical terrain. Alex is very knowledge and knows his bikes better than I do even though i ride the **** out of his bikes.

Now matter which build you bet you will be able to enjoy riding it in a variety of environments. I have been so happy with my middlechild frame I know you will be happy with it.

🤘


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

Thanks, that's pretty much how I feel at this point. I can't go wrong. Thanks for the input!

Edit: I just placed my order. Went with a Large, Purple, 27.5 build complete w/dropper. 

I can't wait to get back to riding again!

I really appreciate the advice here and from Alex in my emails!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Rob, you are in for a treat! 
I have been enjoying the V1 since they hit the market. The handling is spot on and this bike has been awesome at everything I have subjected it to.

Size L with 150mm Pike, 70mm stem, 800mm 10° back, 6° up bar.

While this bike is not for the weight weenie, it certainly is for the rider that would like to be riding something damn nice and exceptionally functional for many years.

Congrats!


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

BansheeRune said:


> Rob, you are in for a treat!
> I have been enjoying the V1 since they hit the market. The handling is spot on and this bike has been awesome at everything I have subjected it to.
> 
> Size L with 150mm Pike, 70mm stem, 800mm 10° back, 6° up bar.
> ...


Thanks, I can't wait!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Rob801 said:


> Thanks, I can't wait!


You're quite welcome! 😁

Had to step out with Sunspot, my tennis ball yellow friend for some wheelie and manual time 'round the neighborhood. Annnddd, the happy, spastic German Shepherd needed some run time, soooo... Made my dog very happy to be out and running while I was playing.










Set up as a "one speed, automatic", this bike is just hella fun and beyond the call of playful duty!

When you get your grubby mitts on the purple mountain eater, you will be one grinning screwball on a bike!


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

Looks great! I really like the yellow too. I think purple is best out of the three options available now. I of course asked my daughters advice and she thought the turquoise was too girly 😅 , even though I kind of like it (it is almost the exact same color as a bike she had). Looking forward to seeing the purple irl.

Nice when the dogs are happy . I like shepards. Never had one myself but two of my neighbours in Denmark did. Great dogs! We had a black and a golden lab, on a small horse property (but surrounded by farms and forest) so it was paradise for them (and us). Single apartment life now so no pets unfortunately.

Will post some pics from my area when I get my bike, hopefully in sept... new time table.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Rob801 said:


> Looks great! I really like the yellow too. I think purple is best out of the three options available now. I of course asked my daughters advice and she thought the turquoise was too girly 😅 , even though I kind of like it (it is almost the exact same color as a bike she had). Looking forward to seeing the purple irl.
> 
> Nice when the dogs are happy . I like shepards. Never had one myself but two of my neighbours in Denmark did. Great dogs! We had a black and a golden lab, on a small horse property (but surrounded by farms and forest) so it was paradise for them (and us). Single apartment life now so no pets unfortunately.
> 
> Will post some pics from my area when I get my bike, hopefully in sept... new time table.


Have to admit, the purples are amazing. Had it been available in 2019, that pic would have been different in many ways.
Damn delays...


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

Just visited RSD’s site. There’s new photos up of complete bikes .


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Rob801 said:


> Just visited RSD's site. There's new photos up of complete bikes .


Alex sneaks in more pix when we aren't looking, the devious little bastage!


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## da_kube (Aug 6, 2019)

Rob801 said:


> Looks great! I really like the yellow too. I think purple is best out of the three options available now. I of course asked my daughters advice and she thought the turquoise was too girly 😅 , even though I kind of like it (it is almost the exact same color as a bike she had). Looking forward to seeing the purple irl.


Thread lurker here. I have the Teal (Is Real!) on order and my wife said the same thing. It looks better in the matte looking photos some are posting but if it's anything like the website images (i'll bet it is) it's full-on teal. I've been trying to compensate by getting as many stealth on black parts as I can find.

I'm not a purple guy but I think that purple almost wins me over. And the black on black wasn't my thing, either. I did a Hardtail Party consult (super helpful, especially if you're building a bike!) and there's so much that appeals to me about this bike that I had to pick one of the three. I've never looked tough in my life but teal and tough start with the same letter, so that's close enough.

Hope these friggin' bikes come soon! I feel really bad for people like Alex who really care about a company they created and have to wade through this sludge.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

Purple looks so good. I'm considering possibly listing my size small frame for sale and transferring things over to a Medium, I kinda feel like I made a mistake getting a small. Or possibly getting a Pipedream Moxie MX3 in magenta .


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

how tall etc? I am 5'8" and the medium is good- I just got a coaching session from LLB's Patrick Carey and my RAD needed to shorten my stem. Bike fit like a dream before and it is even better- I am pretty average proportion if that helps


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

da_kube said:


> Thread lurker here. I have the Teal (Is Real!) on order and my wife said the same thing. It looks better in the matte looking photos some are posting but if it's anything like the website images (i'll bet it is) it's full-on teal. I've been trying to compensate by getting as many stealth on black parts as I can find.
> 
> I'm not a purple guy but I think that purple almost wins me over. And the black on black wasn't my thing, either. I did a Hardtail Party consult (super helpful, especially if you're building a bike!) and there's so much that appeals to me about this bike that I had to pick one of the three. I've never looked tough in my life but teal and tough start with the same letter, so that's close enough.
> 
> Hope these friggin' bikes come soon! I feel really bad for people like Alex who really care about a company they created and have to wade through this sludge.


I agree with the matte photos. It's still hard to get a real impression of the purple from the photo's but I am sure it is gong to look great! Cool you used the consult. It was HP's video that first introduced me to RSD where he built up his yellow frame, and it just seemed like it checked al the boxes for me (so I guess that was in a sense my consult).

Did you order a complete bike or just the frame? If complete, 27.5 or 29'er (that was the hardest thing for me to decide)

I've never been looking forward to getting an invoice in my inbox so much .


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

NJ Gator said:


> how tall etc? I am 5'8" and the medium is good- I just got a coaching session from LLB's Patrick Carey and my RAD needed to shorten my stem. Bike fit like a dream before and it is even better- I am pretty average proportion if that helps


I'm 5'7 also average proportions. I just feel like maybe I could use a bit more reach... especially when out of the seat. I got recommended size S from RSD when I bought and maybe it's not necessarily wrong... but I'd really like to try a Medium. I actually have a friend that has an RSD aluminum in Medium and that's what I'm gonna try next to see how it feels.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

Probably a good call- do you measure rad? want me to measure it up for you?

getting ready for a ride- so my rad is 30.5 inches- I get my rad with no spacers and a 32mm stem.


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## da_kube (Aug 6, 2019)

Rob801 said:


> I agree with the matte photos. It's still hard to get a real impression of the purple from the photo's but I am sure it is gong to look great! Cool you used the consult. It was HP's video that first introduced me to RSD where he built up his yellow frame, and it just seemed like it checked al the boxes for me (so I guess that was in a sense my consult).
> 
> Did you order a complete bike or just the frame? If complete, 27.5 or 29'er (that was the hardest thing for me to decide)
> 
> I've never been looking forward to getting an invoice in my inbox so much .


I ordered the complete build but I learned enough from my FS about what I like so I'll be selling/saving/helping some friends in need with a few parts. I got the al spec on the steel frame and I'll be subbing TRP quadiems, custom wheels (Stans barons laced to 101s), GX cassette, PNW loam dropper and I plan to try the DVO fork but my LBS gave me a sweet deal on a Pike with short offset. (Making those guys BBQ early in the season has really paid off.)

I got the 27.5+ but this was really an easy decision for me as I wanted the MC for winter PA riding and I already have a FS with 29er wheels. That's one reason I upgraded the cassette. I wanted a direct swap. If I only had one bike, that would be a harder decision. I probably still would have gone with the + tires because of more cushion and traction. I feel like you can't go wrong with either though. Minor pros and cons but in the end they're still attached to bikes and bikes are awesome.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

NJ Gator said:


> Probably a good call- do you measure rad? want me to measure it up for you?
> 
> getting ready for a ride- so my rad is 30.5 inches- I get my rad with no spacers and a 32mm stem.


I hadn't really looked into RAD until now, haven't really found there's a free 'calculator' out there. How did you calculate your value there? Is that just center of bb to your handlebar grip?
edit: this is a bigger subject than I thought. I'm looking at some videos and will take some measurements. But, if you have anything (shortcuts!) to share please do.


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

drivera said:


> I hadn't really looked into RAD until now, haven't really found there's a free 'calculator' out there. How did you calculate your value there? Is that just center of bb to your handlebar grip?
> edit: this is a bigger subject than I thought. I'm looking at some videos and will take some measurements. But, if you have anything (shortcuts!) to share please do.


I posted a video I recorded on it earlier in this thread, one page back. If you haven't watched it check it out. I try to simplify RAD as much as possible. Its very easy to get over complicated. To estimate what your bike will be needs to combine a trigometric equation of each component involved. Frame, Stem, Handlebar, Spacers... Le McCormack has calculators in his membership site. www.llbmtb.com

Best just to measure your own RAD. Then your own bike and compare. When considering a new bike use a measurement of the Downtube (Square root(√) of (reach^2 + stack^2)). Then compare that to a bike that you know is a good fit for you.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Rob801 said:


> I agree with the matte photos. It's still hard to get a real impression of the purple from the photo's but I am sure it is gong to look great! Cool you used the consult. It was HP's video that first introduced me to RSD where he built up his yellow frame, and it just seemed like it checked al the boxes for me (so I guess that was in a sense my consult).
> 
> I've never been looking forward to getting an invoice in my inbox so much .


Jonesin' much??

Frankly, a good photo would be in natural; light as opposed to indoors... Looking at my candy apple frame, a Bikesmith Racing prototype in artificial light it appears beet red, out in the sun, it is a very orangy red that pops, for example. I would like to see a good closeup in the sun however, another pithy dirt ripper might be necessary if the color pops properly.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

AlpineMTBTraining said:


> I posted a video I recorded on it earlier in this thread, one page back. If you haven't watched it check it out. I try to simplify RAD as much as possible. Its very easy to get over complicated. To estimate what your bike will be needs to combine a trigometric equation of each component involved. Frame, Stem, Handlebar, Spacers... Le McCormack has calculators in his membership site. www.llbmtb.com
> 
> Best just to measure your own RAD. Then your own bike and compare. When considering a new bike use a measurement of the Downtube (Square root(√) of (reach^2 + stack^2)). Then compare that to a bike that you know is a good fit for you.


Thanks for the helpful video it also showed me the importance of why this is a helpful measurement from a body-mechanics relationship to the bike. I did my measurements. Actually even though we have different heights our measurements are close.

My standing measurement:
33.25" or 844.55
My bikes measurement to center of handlebar grips line=
31.75" or 806.45mm

As you ride a Medium I think that I'd be closer to the ideal RAD with a Medium size (given our similar measurements). Which is what I kinda suspected. Wish I would have known a bit more about sizing when I was deciding. I don't really want to make up for this difference by adding a long stem or anything as I feel like that would make handling a bit weird on this type of bike.

My bar is an Enve M7 with 25mm of rise 8 degrees sweep. I have a RaceFace TurbineR 35 stem with 3 spacers underneath.

I imagine I could maybe slam the stem to gain a bit of length?


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## AlpineMTBTraining (Apr 26, 2009)

drivera said:


> Thanks for the helpful video it also showed me the importance of why this is a helpful measurement from a body-mechanics relationship to the bike. I did my measurements. Actually even though we have different heights our measurements are close.
> 
> My standing measurement:
> 33.25" or 844.55
> ...


Have you tried one of the on bike measurements? Either standing with pedals on saw horses/benches or laying down? It will be immediately obvious if the bike is close and your measurement is accurate. With a 806 RAD on your bike you will not be able to get your handlebars to your hips without shitty posture if your RAD is truely 844.

Options for lengthening your RAD would be 1. longer stem (i ride a 50mm and prefer the handling over a 40mm stem). 2. Higher rise bars (40-50mm rise) Either of these should keep your bike handling in check.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

This whole RAD thing has my curiosity in how it would apply to keeping my trialsy Middlechild...Trialsy. Or, would it be so far out from where I have set my bike. Keeping in mind, the KOXX Red Sky is highly influential in all of my builds whether I do the cutting, welding and finishes or RSD makes those choices. 50+ years of experience does tend to bias the science! Go figure. 

During my custom frame fabrication era, there had never been a production model, each was tailored to the expectations of the client right down to color breaks in a multi tone fade.


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## michaelandk2 (May 15, 2019)

Anyone with any news on their pre-orders ? Supposed (knocks on wood), to be starting to get shipped soon from the last update.... (delivery date is apparently early September for a lot of places, but idk what that means exactly).


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## da_kube (Aug 6, 2019)

michaelandk2 said:


> Anyone with any news on their pre-orders ? Supposed (knocks on wood), to be starting to get shipped soon from the last update.... (delivery date is apparently early September for a lot of places, but idk what that means exactly).


I'm not first on the list but I'm pretty close (ordered mid March) and I was told they'll be started to ship mid September.


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## michaelandk2 (May 15, 2019)

Cool, yeah my wife ordered around that time as well. We'll see how it goes I guess.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Wow! The two of ya have a JONES going on!!! I can certainly understand the difficulty with waiting for delivery since this scamdemic has delayed everything imaginable. That first look into the box, you are in for a treat. Assembly, and all the while, you are hearing a Heinz ketchup jingle in your mind, Anticipation, is makin' me wait... Now down to the wire and first ride. Stuff that seat between your legs and pedal on! The bike is indescribable. In each and every detail. With each pedal stroke. That first wheelie or manual. Euphoria sets in. This bike should have been a standard since time began!

Congratulations, you folks now have a new friend, a new playmate like no other! ??
This is the expression that will fill your face during the first moments into the maiden ride. ? A kid, freakin' kid all over again...

my Middlechild has been hangin' out since 2019 and lost that new bike smell however, ? is what I look like each time I take my buddy, Sunspot out for a session!









Sunspot lurking, in anticipation of a hella session at South Canyon trail system near Glenwierd Springs, CO.
Note the one speed automatic transmission to make the bike more simple but complicate riding some.

Welcome aboard the Middlechild Express!


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

made mine do some work today


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## michaelandk2 (May 15, 2019)

lol quite the post banshee . We are pretty pumped! Our fancy FS bikes will probably see a bit less action, which is cool with me.


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

I’m totally jonesing 😅. My original order was in feb… my “re (new) order” in July. Not sure how that’s going to affect my delivery by since it was still showing “4 or 5 in stock” for preorder, hopefully it’s still in the same general time frame. I have no clue to how many orders can be processed a day etc, or if I’ll be a month later than early orders.

Almost fully recovered (I hope) from a hamstring injury 🙄… so I guess a little more time won’t hurt.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

screamingbunny said:


> made mine do some work today
> View attachment 1945231


Lookin' good, Bunny!



michaelandk2 said:


> lol quite the post banshee . We are pretty pumped! Our fancy FS bikes will probably see a bit less action, which is cool with me.


I cannot express it enough! This Middlechild thang has been awesome. The return to running a one speed automatic has made a huge difference in the experience. Simplicity of singlespeed becomes more complex riding technique in the real world. Now, we enter the geometry and dimensions of the frame and Game On! Meanwhile, the Wildcat sees plenty of action cause I need some "Fleetwood Brougham" time too. Love the plus thang.



Rob801 said:


> I'm totally jonesing ?. My original order was in feb&#8230; my "re (new) order" in July. Not sure how that's going to affect my delivery by since it was still showing "4 or 5 in stock" for preorder, hopefully it's still in the same general time frame. I have no clue to how many orders can be processed a day etc, or if I'll be a month later than early orders.
> 
> Almost fully recovered (I hope) from a hamstring injury ?&#8230; so I guess a little more time won't hurt.


Patience, Grasshoppah! Soon enough, you will be raging your loco haunts!
Now, that hamstring... Let it heal. Tendon and ligament injury takes wayyy too long to heal. You really don't want or need to undo the healing done by getting silly, too soon.


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## tntmikep (Feb 1, 2021)

michaelandk2 said:


> Anyone with any news on their pre-orders ? Supposed (knocks on wood), to be starting to get shipped soon from the last update.... (delivery date is apparently early September for a lot of places, but idk what that means exactly).


I ordered a frame in early Jan. Nothing yet


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

So I wanted to share my experience riding my friend's RSD MC (aluminum/ Medium). I love riding other bikes because you get to sample things and see what you like, setup differences, parts, geometry, sizing etc. I learned quite a few things...

Firstly, my friend built a heck of a bike. Not only is it beautifully styled, but it's very dialed in. It seemed a bit more poppy and a bit faster than my RSD MC (steel/ Small). I also felt pretty comfortable on the medium, a bit more stretched out, but I think more comfortable when out of the seat when riding more aggressively. I think Medium may be preferable for me. I gotta ride my Small again.

Secondly, this bike is setup with 2.6" tires and I wasn't missing my 2.8's at all. I rode them at 20psi front 18 rear. I could have dropped some and been ok I'm sure, but I didn't feel I had to. I don't love alot of jiggly feel. I feel like with an aggressive geometry bike like this one all you have to do (for most trails I've ridden) is loosen up the body, lighten up the feet, let the fork do the work and the bike handles most roots/chunk just fine. I also think the 2.6's probably aide in feeling a bit faster.

Thirdly, Magura MT8 carbon brakes are AMAZING. The one finger braking on them, the feel, the power, everything. Game changer. This is the bar I will judge all brakes on. It gave me confidence and being a touchpoint that's used SO much, it really made the quality feel of the bike go way up. I think I need to go with Magura one day.

Finally, although I'm still considering getting a full suspension mostly to get some comfort on some of the harder trails, I had so much fun riding the hardtail that I really think I need to always have a hardtail... even if I get a full suspension. The hardtail must stay. The connection with the trail, the challenge, makes smaller features in the trail more fun. More fun is what it's all about.

Overall, I had alot of fun riding this bike. Admittedly a bit more than my own MiddleChild... so I'm going to have to do something about that.

Check out this beauty









I'm not much of a jumper yet, but got a bit of air time after this nice wall feature.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

drivera said:


> So I wanted to share my experience riding my friend's RSD MC (aluminum/ Medium). I love riding other bikes because you get to sample things and see what you like, setup differences, parts, geometry, sizing etc. I learned quite a few things...
> 
> Firstly, my friend built a heck of a bike. Not only is it beautifully styled, but it's very dialed in. It seemed a bit more poppy and a bit faster than my RSD MC (steel/ Small). I also felt pretty comfortable on the medium, a bit more stretched out, but I think more comfortable when out of the seat when riding more aggressively. I think Medium may be preferable for me. I gotta ride my Small again.
> 
> ...


Were they 27.5 or 29? I Agree Magura is the best i ever owned.


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## da_kube (Aug 6, 2019)

drivera said:


> So I wanted to share my experience riding my friend's RSD MC (aluminum/ Medium). I love riding other bikes because you get to sample things and see what you like, setup differences, parts, geometry, sizing etc. I learned quite a few things...


This is great! I am going steel (really digging that teal) but I do wonder about the al build. I was hoping Hardtail Party could get his hands on one before I had to make the final call (RSD has been super cool about keeping options like that open) but it looks like that won't happen in time due to all the supply side BS.

Agreed about brakes, too. I'm a newer rider and I swapped brakes on my full suspension. Other than geo and suspension, it's the top place to sink money and brakes aren't even buckets of money like most bike stuff.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

27.5 just like my MC.


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

da_kube said:


> This is great! I am going steel (really digging that teal) but I do wonder about the al build. I was hoping Hardtail Party could get his hands on one before I had to make the final call (RSD has been super cool about keeping options like that open) but it looks like that won't happen in time due to all the supply side BS.
> 
> Agreed about brakes, too. I'm a newer rider and I swapped brakes on my full suspension. Other than geo and suspension, it's the top place to sink money and brakes aren't even buckets of money like most bike stuff.


I honestly do like steel, but the Aluminun version does feel a bit lighter and snappier. Steel does feel a tad bit different, but maybe not enough to make a choice based on performance only. I feel like, if you like steel, you like the aesthetic, you like the material, there isn't enough of a negative to not choose it. That said, if you choose aluminum for whatever reason, you're not missing out on too much... and it's a bit lighter. I may still get another steel, for reasons.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

da_kube said:


> This is great! I am going steel (really digging that teal) but I do wonder about the al build. I was hoping Hardtail Party could get his hands on one before I had to make the final call (RSD has been super cool about keeping options like that open) but it looks like that won't happen in time due to all the supply side BS.
> 
> Agreed about brakes, too. I'm a newer rider and I swapped brakes on my full suspension. Other than geo and suspension, it's the top place to sink money and brakes aren't even buckets of money like most bike stuff.


My, my... When I got my hands on a Middlechild, there was steel or the luxury edition in Ti. In a way, I wish I sprung for the Ti however, I will never get enough of my tennis ball yellow steel Middlechild.
Frankly, I would really love to collect all three! Steel, aluminum and Ti to marvel at and get in trouble with.
Brakes! Sunspot has Hope Tech 3, E4's and I wouldn't trade em for any other option out there. Love the performance of em since they work like magic with a pinky finger's effort on the lever! No arm pump evar. You put that kind of force on the lever, kiss your face goodbye! Towing package brakes for bicycles, they are.


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## da_kube (Aug 6, 2019)

BansheeRune said:


> Brakes! Sunspot has Hope Tech 3, E4's and I wouldn't trade em for any other option out there. Love the performance of em since they work like magic with a pinky finger's effort on the lever! No arm pump evar. You put that kind of force on the lever, kiss your face goodbye! Towing package brakes for bicycles, they are.


I haven't tried Hope but I hear great things. I've tried Magura (the sport trail 4-2 piston hybrid) and they are pretty sweet and SRAM levels and guides. Some low spec Shimanos too. The Guides required a lot of maintenance. Maybe I got a bad set but the pistons would completely seize up after a few months of use. SRAM did warranty them but those went straight to marketplace. I've been happy with the TRP Quadiems on my FS (way more power than the guides with decent modulation and annual not bi-monthly servicing) so I ordered another set for my MiddleChild, which hopefully comes soon!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

da_kube said:


> I haven't tried Hope but I hear great things. I've tried Magura (the sport trail 4-2 piston hybrid) and they are pretty sweet and SRAM levels and guides. Some low spec Shimanos too. The Guides required a lot of maintenance. Maybe I got a bad set but the pistons would completely seize up after a few months of use. SRAM did warranty them but those went straight to marketplace. I've been happy with the TRP Quadiems on my FS (way more power than the guides with decent modulation and annual not bi-monthly servicing) so I ordered another set for my MiddleChild, which hopefully comes soon!


Sram has run thne gammut with the guide brakes being faulty. I gave one set away after they were warrantied. Another set, I kept the calipers and junked the master cylinders. Sarge III now has the Guide 4 pot calipers and Juicy 3 levers for the time being. When Hope gets back in the groove, I will order up a pair of master cylinders and junk the Juicys in lieu of Hope.

Brakes that don't throw you through the windshield simply do not work! 
My trials bike's Hopes were last serviced in 2009. To this day, the only need has been fresh pads and back to hoppin onto boulders, walls or anything else Shinzon finds intriguing!


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## tntmikep (Feb 1, 2021)

drivera said:


> So I wanted to share my experience riding my friend's RSD MC (aluminum/ Medium). I love riding other bikes because you get to sample things and see what you like, setup differences, parts, geometry, sizing etc. I learned quite a few things...
> 
> Firstly, my friend built a heck of a bike. Not only is it beautifully styled, but it's very dialed in. It seemed a bit more poppy and a bit faster than my RSD MC (steel/ Small). I also felt pretty comfortable on the medium, a bit more stretched out, but I think more comfortable when out of the seat when riding more aggressively. I think Medium may be preferable for me. I gotta ride my Small again.
> 
> ...


Nice! I have an aluminum v2 size medium on order. Wish they would get here!


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## Weeknightwarrior (Mar 12, 2021)

Anyone receive shipment details yet for an Alu MC?

Fingers crossed for September..


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

Weeknightwarrior said:


> Anyone receive shipment details yet for an Alu MC?
> 
> Fingers crossed for September..


Nothing in my inbox yet but shipping notices are supposed to be going out this week and next the last I heard (for MC's at least). Alex updated the website, and answered a mail I sent with the same question about the status of my order (since I cancelled my feb pre-order and placed a new one in July, switching from the Al to the chromoly).

September 2nd , 2021 - Shipping Update

Good news! We've just received confirmation that our shipment of MiddleChild frames and complete bikes (titanium, steel and aluminum) will arrive between 9/15 and 9/24 (of this year!).
We will begin contacting each customer with a pre-order in the next week to confirm shipping information and any relevant details about your order.
We are still waiting on shipping confirmation for the Sergeant and RS-291 orders, but we expect to receive an update very soon.
Thanks again for your patience.


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## da_kube (Aug 6, 2019)

Rob801 said:


> Nothing in my inbox yet but shipping notices are supposed to be going out this week and next the last I heard (for MC's at least). Alex updated the website, and answered a mail I sent with the same question about the status of my order (since I cancelled my feb pre-order and placed a new one in July, switching from the Al to the chromoly).


One thing I wish they would do is offer a bit more info. The posts just say the bikes are getting to them on that day. I was told it'll take about a week from when they get the bikes until they are ready to ship it to me. But I ordered in Feb. I imagine people aren't going to be happy when they say "the bikes are coming 9.24" and then they have to build a bunch of them up and ship them out. It's possible RSD gets complete bikes but I'm sure they give each a once over.


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

da_kube said:


> One thing I wish they would do is offer a bit more info. The posts just say the bikes are getting to them on that day. I was told it'll take about a week from when they get the bikes until they are ready to ship it to me. But I ordered in Feb. I imagine people aren't going to be happy when they say "the bikes are coming 9.24" and then they have to build a bunch of them up and ship them out. It's possible RSD gets complete bikes but I'm sure they give each a once over.


Yeah, honestly I don't think it matters much when you ordered. If it said "5 in stock" or what ever when you ordered, that was pre-order stock for this shipment. Sounded like I'll be in the second week of deliveries as opposed to the first (between my feb order and my July order). Sounds like all those bikes came in one big shipment. I really have no idea how many orders that may be.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Rob801 said:


> Yeah, honestly I don't think it matters much when you ordered. If it said "5 in stock" or what ever when you ordered, that was pre-order stock for this shipment. Sounded like I'll be in the second week of deliveries as opposed to the first (between my feb order and my July order). Sounds like all those bikes came in one big shipment. I really have no idea how many orders that may be.


Part of the problems are some asian ports close due to covid.
Also some ports in north america experience unsual delays.
For months retailers avoid sharing detailed info and the same
goes for importers. Many retailers have given back deposits and
it will stay this way for many more months. Huge demand and less
production has the international system showing obvious limits.


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## RSD Bikes (Sep 18, 2009)

Major delays were caused by the shipping lines but It's all in transit now. Hopefully, we will receive the deliveries 9/20-9/24. Order confirmation emails are going out tomorrow and Friday. Thanks for your patience.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

33red said:


> Part of the problems are some asian ports close due to covid.
> Also some ports in north america experience unsual delays.
> For months retailers avoid sharing detailed info and the same
> goes for importers. Many retailers have given back deposits and
> ...


When your livelihood involves transit of products, you find out just what it is like to place a bid on a cargo container and ship date only to be out bid by others! When that happens, your container sits until you succeed in your bid.

When the scamdemic ends... Not gonna as long as it can be played like a Stradivarius!


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## Weeknightwarrior (Mar 12, 2021)

BansheeRune said:


> When your livelihood involves transit of products, you find out just what it is like to place a bid on a cargo container and ship date only to be out bid by others! When that happens, your container sits until you succeed in your bid.
> 
> When the scamdemic ends... Not gonna as long as it can be played like a Stradivarius!


Not sure I follow, is the concept that the shortages of production workers, containers, and shipyard labor overseas in on the scam, or ...? I don't think RSD is involved in any scam, or being scammed. Maybe it was just an off topic post (?)


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

RSD is not involved in any of those assertions, nor was what I said indicating such. 

I just happen to be involved in two industries that are being affected by artificial inflation of shipping, plain and simple.
Just sayin' and that is not the only venue that is screwed up beyond belief, by any means.

So, with that put to bed, explain any claim in my previous post that stated that Alex or RSD is or has been involved in questionable or wrong doing, please. Otherwise, stow it, thankya kindly.


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## RSD Bikes (Sep 18, 2009)

To Banshee's point, he is correct. 
You can book a container today from Taiwan to Canada or to the USA, and the price will "only" be around 300% more what the standard price is, BUT.... the catch is that this price DOES NOT even guarantee space on the vessel. They will put you on whenever there is space. that could be 6 months from now, or more, based on container and space shortage. Shipping lines are controlling the flow and the price. Sadly, there is no governing body to tell them they can and cannot do what they are doing.
In order to have guaranteed space, the price goes up to 600% the standard cost and they pick the highest "bidders" first and these bookings are done 2 months in advance, which is why pricing are going up for most commodities, and not just bikes. 
Maybe too much info... I hope that helps


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## da_kube (Aug 6, 2019)

RSD Bikes said:


> Maybe too much info... I hope that helps


That's helpful. Thanks for explaining. I think/hope most customers are pretty understanding and FWIW I think the modest price increases to cover some of your cost overages were more than fair.


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## Weeknightwarrior (Mar 12, 2021)

RSD Bikes said:


> To Banshee's point, he is correct.
> You can book a container today from Taiwan to Canada or to the USA, and the price will "only" be around 300% more what the standard price is, BUT.... the catch is that this price DOES NOT even guarantee space on the vessel. They will put you on whenever there is space. that could be 6 months from now, or more, based on container and space shortage. Shipping lines are controlling the flow and the price. Sadly, there is no governing body to tell them they can and cannot do what they are doing.
> In order to have guaranteed space, the price goes up to 600% the standard cost and they pick the highest "bidders" first and these bookings are done 2 months in advance, which is why pricing are going up for most commodities, and not just bikes.
> Maybe too much info... I hope that helps


Your experience definitely echoes what I've heard from my acquaintances working in the ocean freight industry. Demand is huge, and facing a shortage of supply (including available eastbound containers).

However, I've not heard or read anything implying a cartel or scam operators at play.


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## RSD Bikes (Sep 18, 2009)

Weeknightwarrior said:


> Your experience definitely echoes what I've heard from my acquaintances working in the ocean freight industry. Demand is huge, and facing a shortage of supply (including available eastbound containers).
> 
> However, I've not heard or read anything implying a cartel or scam operators at play.


No one said anything about a scam. all i said is that the shipping lines control the price and flow of containers, so they can charge whatever they want, with no one to tell them otherwise.


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## michaelandk2 (May 15, 2019)

Maybe he's talking about banshee saying something about a "scamdemic" a few times, which likely has to do with political views or something idk. This is a place for bike talk imo though .


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## Weeknightwarrior (Mar 12, 2021)

RSD Bikes said:


> No one said anything about a scam. all i said is that the shipping lines control the price and flow of containers, so they can charge whatever they want, with no one to tell them otherwise.


My post was responding to some "just sayin" logic in #939. ("artificial inflation", "scamdemic")

Point is, demand exceeds supply for various reasons (mostly well understood by this point), and hopefully most customers understand that as a cost of doing business / being a consumer in 2020/21. Nobody should blame RSD or a specific consumer industry for the lack of shipping capacity. So, who is "playing" anyone like a "Stradivarius"? Ooooh the secret shipping industry puppet masters? 

Are the allegations in #939 industry-wide price fixing for ocean freight? A cartel? Assertion made without evidence. Holding shipping capacity off market while prices are peaking would be madness, and I haven't heard even a peep about this happening in the real world.


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## Weeknightwarrior (Mar 12, 2021)

Getting back to the real topic - sweet hardtails.

Sounds like 2.5 or 2.6 tire on the back wheel is the sweet spot. Anyone have a tire they particularly love - ideally something you trust without an insert? Was thinking about nobby nic, but unsure of the casing & rubber options that will work best as a year round setup.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Weeknightwarrior said:


> Getting back to the real topic - sweet hardtails.
> 
> Sounds like 2.5 or 2.6 tire on the back wheel is the sweet spot. Anyone have a tire they particularly love - ideally something you trust without an insert? Was thinking about nobby nic, but unsure of the casing & rubber options that will work best as a year round setup.


You have a few 2.5 options with continental and Michelin.


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## michaelandk2 (May 15, 2019)

I have 2 tire sets ready . Rekon 2.4 Dc and Rekon 2.6 3c, and a 2.5 aggressor + a 2.6dhr . Hopefully bb doesn't get to low... but honestly looking at the bb vs other bikes it doesn't look like its going to be that low even like that.


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## michaelandk2 (May 15, 2019)

Weeknightwarrior said:


> Getting back to the real topic - sweet hardtails.
> 
> Sounds like 2.5 or 2.6 tire on the back wheel is the sweet spot. Anyone have a tire they particularly love - ideally something you trust without an insert? Was thinking about nobby nic, but unsure of the casing & rubber options that will work best as a year round setup.


I'd love to try the new NN. They were basically sold out everywhere. I probably would have gone their midweight super trail option... it's a bit heavy though, which is probably good as it's really the tread pattern I care about for rolling speed.


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

I re-vitalized a Stans Flow/Chris King wheelset 27.5. Running 2.6 HighRoller 2's and LOVE them.

Fit well and I personally didn't feel too much BB lowering as a result- I assume due to knobs and more psi, etc...


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

I got my invoice today... and payed it... Yay! 

Done deal. Now the wait for the shipping/tracking begins 😅


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## tntmikep (Feb 1, 2021)

Rob801 said:


> I got my invoice today... and payed it... Yay!
> 
> Done deal. Now the wait for the shipping/tracking begins 😅


Good news! Did you order a whole bike or just a frame? When did you place your order? Just being nosy so I can get an idea of when I may get my email


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

tntmikep said:


> Good news! Did you order a whole bike or just a frame? When did you place your order? Just being nosy so I can get an idea of when I may get my email


No problem! Whole bike. My original order was placed in feb&#8230; but I cancelled that order and ordered another (different specs) MC mid July. 
Sounded like most people that ordered between then and now should be getting notices today and tomorrow. 
I may be down the line a little when they start "assembling" the complete bikes for delivery.


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## tntmikep (Feb 1, 2021)

Rob801 said:


> No problem! Whole bike. My original order was placed in feb&#8230; but I cancelled that order and ordered another (different specs) MC mid July.
> Sounded like most people that ordered between then and now should be getting notices today and tomorrow.
> I may be down the line a little when they start "assembling" the complete bikes for delivery.


I ordered just a frame in early January. I hope I get notified soon! I'm also a bit curious about if it will come with a headset like originally stated. I saw a notice a few months back that if you made your frame order after a certain date (after my order date), no headset would come with the frame


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

This is exactly why I call it a scamdemic, because, frankly, it is just that.
With the current trend of unavailable workers for whatever reason for any job position, be McDucks, 15-18 smackers an hour according to the banner in front, to shipyard workers etc., People wanna sit on their duffs instead of earning their keep. What the hell is the excuse for breaking it off in our asses? Go figure! And to think, people bitched and moaned when 15/hour was being discussed as a minimum wage... It is now being done voluntarily and everyone forgot to *****!

I can say, when the Federalis were giving an extra 600 bux a week on top of the standard UI benefit, I had the opportunity to sign up. I chose not to do that and keep my business on furlough while I took a job with a friend that needed a mechanic, we are classified "Essential" and keep fixing those broken vehicles six days a week. I would much rather be getting greasy, repairing a vehicle than sit on my ass and be a load on society, just is not how I was raised, nor who I am.



NJ Gator said:


> I re-vitalized a Stans Flow/Chris King wheelset 27.5. Running 2.6 HighRoller 2's and LOVE them.
> 
> Fit well and I personally didn't feel too much BB lowering as a result- I assume due to knobs and more psi, etc...


With a small tire size/volume change, BB drop would be minimal. And, like you mentioned, firmer air pressure will equalize it to be near zero change.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

RSD Bikes said:


> No one said anything about a scam. all i said is that the shipping lines control the price and flow of containers, so they can charge whatever they want, with no one to tell them otherwise.


Annndd, this has lead to price gouging in the shipping industry which has little regulation. Something that is ranging between 300-600% increases in costs. Necessary, perhaps on a lesser scale.


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

tntmikep said:


> I ordered just a frame in early January. I hope I get notified soon! I'm also a bit curious about if it will come with a headset like originally stated. I saw a notice a few months back that if you made your frame order after a certain date (after my order date), no headset would come with the frame


Yeah, hopefully (both notified, and headset)&#8230; I would think your frame should come as described when you ordered it, unless you were personally notified otherwise. When I cancelled my first order it was also with the "old" $100 deposit rules so didn't cost me much to cancel (as opposed to the updated deposit conditions on my second order with a $250 deposit).

Did you order a Middle Child frame? The Sergeants and RS-291's are coming later in another shipment I believe.


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## tntmikep (Feb 1, 2021)

Rob801 said:


> Yeah, hopefully (both notified, and headset)&#8230; I would think your frame should come as described when you ordered it, unless you were personally notified otherwise. When I cancelled my first order it was also with the "old" $100 deposit rules so didn't cost me much to cancel (as opposed to the updated deposit conditions on my second order with a $250 deposit).
> 
> Did you order a Middle Child frame? The Sergeants and RS-291's are coming later in another shipment I believe.


I ordered a MC aluminum frame medium size in the raw scheme


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

tntmikep said:


> I ordered a MC aluminum frame medium size in the raw scheme


If you don't get something today I'd send an email or call and ask ( I replied to the original mail with my order confirmation with any questions about my order).

Response times may be a little longer, as this was included in the confirmation mail:

"All orders will ship or be assembled in the order in which they were received. This is going to be an extremely busy time and our response time will be significantly impacted during this shipping period from our usual same/next day response to 2-4 business days."


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## tntmikep (Feb 1, 2021)

Rob801 said:


> If you don't get something today I'd send an email or call and ask ( I replied to the original mail with my order confirmation with any questions about my order).
> 
> Response times may be a little longer, as this was included in the confirmation mail:
> 
> "All orders will ship or be assembled in the order in which they were received. This is going to be an extremely busy time and our response time will be significantly impacted during this shipping period from our usual same/next day response to 2-4 business days."


Just got my email about 30 minutes ago! Reviewed my order & paid the balance. Now to wait on shipping details to be sent!!!!!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Looking forward to pix and words from all of ya!


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

So, any news? Anyone get a delivery date yet? Last update said week of October 4th... here's hoping they didn't get delayed further.


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## da_kube (Aug 6, 2019)

Rob801 said:


> So, any news? Anyone get a delivery date yet? Last update said week of October 4th... here's hoping they didn't get delayed further.


I haven't heard anything. It seems like the bikes were literally on a boat somewhere so I think it's only a matter of time but based on recent news reports I wouldn't be surprised to hear of another delay.


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## michaelandk2 (May 15, 2019)

Not really, I've been stalking their websites and various accounts religiously and not a peep. Hopefully thats a good sign lol?


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

michaelandk2 said:


> Not really, I've been stalking their websites and various accounts religiously and not a peep. Hopefully thats a good sign lol?


Me too and I saw this on the MC pre-order page:

“Available for Pre-Order – Mid to late November delivery – $250 deposit required – Final price not confirmed.”

So I really hope that is for new preorders only… but if it took eight+ months for this batch of bikes and frames to arrive, not sure how a new batch would be here next month already. Unless it’s just shop backlog at this point… time necessary to fill all the existing orders before new ones start going out.

Trying to stay optimistic though .


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## tntmikep (Feb 1, 2021)

I got this today:

Hi Michael,,

Delivery to our dock is imminent, so your frame/bike will start shipping as early as Tuesday, October 12th (Monday is a holiday).
This is your UPS Ground tracking #

Thank you again for your order and for your legendary patience.
Best,

I ordered just a frame in early January, ftr.


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

tntmikep said:


> I got this today:
> 
> Hi Michael,,
> 
> ...


That's the best news I've seen yet! You got a tracking number!! 

I'm a ways down the list (July), and I ordered a complete bike, so am guessing mine will be at the end of October beginning of November.


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## da_kube (Aug 6, 2019)

tntmikep said:


> I got this today:
> 
> Hi Michael,,
> 
> ...


Same!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Edge of your seats, in rabid Jones mode!


----------



## da_kube (Aug 6, 2019)

tntmikep said:


> I got this today:
> 
> Hi Michael,,
> 
> ...


I received the same email and I was pretty sure it was a bulk reply because I wasn't exercising "legendary patience." I was refreshing the website every five minutes and endlessly emailing about things. Seems like the wait is over!


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

da_kube said:


> I received the same email and I was pretty sure it was a bulk reply because I wasn't exercising "legendary patience." I was refreshing the website every five minutes and endlessly emailing about things. Seems like the wait is over!


😂. I’m the same… minus the emails… just checking mine constantly since the wait is ongoing for me . Mentioned when I first joined that I ordered my first bike in Feb but changed my mind and upgraded with a new order in July, so that bumped me down the list a ways.


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## michaelandk2 (May 15, 2019)

Yeah Alex has always responded nicely to even our likely annoying questions. Which I appreciate lol .


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

If Alex can make it through this scamdemic and turn up sane if it ever ends, he'll be damn lucky. Feel for the bloke since he has finally been doing a passion rather than a J O B like the folks that are working might be and what happens? This baloney to put a damper on it. 

Let's see these M/C's when they arrive... Then, the Cheshire cat grins from having a pedal with these addictive bikes!!


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## altasnob (Feb 9, 2021)

UPS tracking says my complete bike ordered last February should arrive next Monday, 10/18


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## tntmikep (Feb 1, 2021)

My aluminum frame is set for Friday delivery


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

Nice to see delivery dates . Just curious, for anyone in the US receiving by UPS, are you getting a specific time window, or just the date of arrival? I'm already planning on taking the day off, but just curious.

No notification/tracking for me yet (mid July full bike MC order).


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## tntmikep (Feb 1, 2021)

Shitty pic, but here's my AL frame! Super jacked! It'll be a while before I transfer my parts/buy a few new parts


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

I was hoping pics would start showing up today . Congrats on getting your frame, Looking forward to seeing more new bike pics in the coming weeks (including my own 😅).

Edit to add… got my tracking number. My (complete) bike is shipping Tuesday 😀


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

It's on... Tnt's holding out on us. Way to go!










Here's a Middlechild lurking near the Colorado River. Singletrackfest in the fall colors is a blessing! Pithy little one speed automatic is a mountainbikeBMXendurodowncountryupcountry bike! Anyone silly enough to place limitations on the Middlechild is not worthy!
Just to fuel the jones a little more...


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

BansheeRune said:


> It's on... Tnt's holding out on us. Way to go!
> 
> View attachment 1952783
> 
> ...


Nice pic!

Hopefully Altasnob will be the next to post some pics. I was really surprised when my tracking info email rolled in at 3 am (PST) Saturday morning. I figured if it wasn’t there by end of business Friday I wouldn’t see it till Monday. Hope it was sent out automatically… if not hope Alex and his crew are finding time to get some shut eye between filling orders.

Next problem for me is that with my luck mine will arrive Saturday and I’m doing a partial Death Valley run on my other two wheeler (Triumph Bonneville) that day… may have to reschedule with UPS if that’s the case.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Rob, sign up with UPS/FedEx (FedUp) for tracking notifications. Takes the edge off.

What you see in my pic is a very nice location along the river with a load of singletrack that Sunspot loves to rail at full throttle. The location of the pic is a favorite haunt and picnic site where Sunspot gets a rest while I refuel.

Death Valley... I have many, many good memories that were forged in the area. Dirt biking and sand rails were a thang during that chapter of my life. I would imagine the Sierra Club has locked it down tight these days.

Back to more important things, like a Middlechild... This is the bike that is assisting my trial with blood cancer. Something that the COOTIES outbreak cannot compete with when it comes to mortality statistics. Sunspot is taking expert care of me through this and it just happens to make a challenge less challenging to have this bike to ride on the good days. Since the presence of this rare form of cancer was discovered in the earliest stage, prognosis is excellent. Chemo has been a mild concoction that doesn't have the level of negative effects that hard core cocktails are notorious for. 

Most importantly... the adventures that a Middlechild is going to bring to the folks that are jonesin' for delivery cannot be quantified! You will have to do that in the real world and it just doesn't get better than that, just sayin' This bike is in it's own class no matter the build. Gears or one speed automatic, the thing just rocks 'n rails 'n rolls! 

Oh, did I say, I love singlespeeding with Sunspot?? 

😀 = riding bikes

😆 = dirtin' 

🤪 = riding a Middlechild

Brings out the Toys R Us in all of us! (How the hell do I get the backwards R, anyway?)


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

With winter wet weather upon us here in Coastal BC my GF is getting her Middlechild dirty on a regular basis and her FS bike has been hung up until the dry weather comes back.










The MC does great on anything she wants to ride. Other than adding on accessories the bike is pretty much stock and it's going strong.










Aside from ripping singletrack it does really well as a general purpose explorer. It's nice to know you can point your bike anywhere and it'll be able to handle what comes around the next corner.










My GF wanted to try a higher rise bar to get a more comfy upright riding position so we are going to try this 50mm rise Deity bar and swap in some cushier grips.


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

BansheeRune said:


> Rob, sign up with UPS/FedEx (FedUp) for tracking notifications. Takes the edge off.
> 
> What you see in my pic is a very nice location along the river with a load of singletrack that Sunspot loves to rail at full throttle. The location of the pic is a favorite haunt and picnic site where Sunspot gets a rest while I refuel.
> 
> ...





BansheeRune said:


> Rob, sign up with UPS/FedEx (FedUp) for tracking notifications. Takes the edge off.
> 
> What you see in my pic is a very nice location along the river with a load of singletrack that Sunspot loves to rail at full throttle. The location of the pic is a favorite haunt and picnic site where Sunspot gets a rest while I refuel.
> 
> ...


Thanks I am signed up (for both, bikes coming UPS though). Just won’t have the delivery date till Tuesday then I’ll take it from there. Not worried about changing the date if I have to. 

Wow, glad your prognosis is good, and you have beautiful surroundings and a great hobby to help take the edge off a little. Makes my little knee problem quite insignificant. 

Yeah, this would be my third three day run with the group I go with every year (combination of So Cal Norton and Japanese Vintage Clubs), but I’m just not feeling it this year (partially due to recovering from my knee injury), but since the ride departs just a few blocks from where I live, I decided to meet up and go for the day. We go through Panamint Valley if you have ever been that way. Beautiful drive. I love the diversity in DV.

Anyway, back to MC . Absolutely can’t wait. Am so looking forward to hitting the trails (behind my place to start with)!


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## michaelandk2 (May 15, 2019)

My wifes should come in today (not as crazy long like some of you but... february or march I think) . Excited to show off the build. It's as blingy as we could make it will still being somewhat "stealth", with the long wait we kept just buying parts like idiots. Somehow ended up with 4 tires lol(more and less aggressive set). at least for those that dont know mtb ;P.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Vik, looks like the GF is one happy camper with her MC. Thanks for the pix and words. That gurl is getting into the ride, indeed. 



Rob801 said:


> Thanks I am signed up (for both, bikes coming UPS though). Just won’t have the delivery date till Tuesday then I’ll take it from there. Not worried about changing the date if I have to.
> 
> Wow, glad your prognosis is good, and you have beautiful surroundings and a great hobby to help take the edge off a little. Makes my little knee problem quite insignificant.
> 
> ...


Two wheels are always a good thing, Rob. Hope you enjoy some outings and keep the RSD! Rubbuh Side Down!! 😃 

The Middlechild will be very different from most others regardless of metal choice. Their design and geo are super comfy and exceptionally playful. Dirtin will never be the same, I promise! It will make ya🤪, without a doubt.



michaelandk2 said:


> My wifes should come in today (not as crazy long like some of you but... february or march I think) . Excited to show off the build. It's as blingy as we could make it will still being somewhat "stealth", with the long wait we kept just buying parts like idiots. Somehow ended up with 4 tires lol(more and less aggressive set). at least for those that dont know mtb ;P.


Are we there yet, are we there yet? I gotta pee!!

Pix of this mysterious bike are due, Michael, just sayin'...


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## michaelandk2 (May 15, 2019)

Hah its being built right now !


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

michaelandk2 said:


> Hah its being built right now !


Demerit!

Progress.

Pix.

so you can make peeps jones harder for theirs!  😉


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

My tracking was finally updated… shipped yesterday (since it’s just after midnight) as promised and arriving Tuesday 🙂


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## michaelandk2 (May 15, 2019)

I could post the parts pics... but thats no fun . Sadly my shop is taking forever to get it built (didn't build it myself because I'm lame lol, and was missing a few things, and have 2 kids, and an obnoxious job).


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

michaelandk2 said:


> I could post the parts pics... but thats no fun . Sadly my shop is taking forever to get it built (didn't build it myself because I'm lame lol, and was missing a few things, and have 2 kids, and an obnoxious job).


I'm having my (highly regarded) local shop build mine as well. I'm mechanically inclined but I just don't have the tools or the experience of a good bike mechanic. Luckily I stopped in way back in March to talk to him about it... and again in sept when Alex updated the delivery horizon. He's otherwise not taking any "outside" jobs since like most everyone else, he has a ton of new inventory to deal with all at once. But he remembered me and said to let him know when I had a delivery date and he will fit me in (no excessive wait). Swinging by on my way home from work to let him know . 

I should hopefully be on my bike by weekend of the 30th at the latest.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My GF wanted her bars higher on the MC. We aren't getting any younger so whatever we can do to stay on the trail and keep shredding we are going to do!










Grips are now a bit above the saddle as requested. She also wanted grips with more padding so she's rocking a pair of RF Getta Grip 30mm on the 50mm rise Deity bar. 🤘


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Vik, I get the idea of bar/seat elevations since I like to reside behind the bars and not towering over em. Looks like the Mrs. is really enjoying the ride. Hope that leads to some fantabulous adventures involving both of you and great experiences out in the new region you are in. 

Rob, Michael, I am highly territorial so no shop guys were permitted to gaze upon the Sunspot during the build. Laced up wheels, faced brake tabs, HT, BB shell and together it all went. This is the labor of love that is irreplaceable at any cost. Anticipation, is making you wait.... Hmmm, sounds like either a new bike build or a Heinz Ketchemup commercial.
At least, I did cheat by going one speed automatic transmission which was a time saver as well as in conformance with weight watchers! 🤪 That first ride... A street session, down town Glenwood Springs with the many features and the trials park the city inadvertently installed under the Grand Avenue bridge. What better way to christen a Middlechild? Trialsin, that had to be the icing on the cake, cat's meow, get me a thesaurus for more terms!


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

BansheeRune said:


> Vik, I get the idea of bar/seat elevations since I like to reside behind the bars and not towering over em. Looks like the Mrs. is really enjoying the ride. Hope that leads to some fantabulous adventures involving both of you and great experiences out in the new region you are in.
> 
> Rob, Michael, I am highly territorial so no shop guys were permitted to gaze upon the Sunspot during the build. Laced up wheels, faced brake tabs, HT, BB shell and together it all went. This is the labor of love that is irreplaceable at any cost. Anticipation, is making you wait.... Hmmm, sounds like either a new bike build or a Heinz Ketchemup commercial.
> At least, I did cheat by going one speed automatic transmission which was a time saver as well as in conformance with weight watchers! 🤪 That first ride... A street session, down town Glenwood Springs with the many features and the trials park the city inadvertently installed under the Grand Avenue bridge. What better way to christen a Middlechild? Trialsin, that had to be the icing on the cake, cat's meow, get me a thesaurus for more terms!


I get not wanting other hands on your bike… I just don’t have the experience, or the time/patience to do it myself at the moment. I have faith in where I’m taking it. One man shop. Very well reviewed. Very good feeling from the few interactions I’ve had with him since march. Went in today, asked if things have calmed down for him since sept. Nope but he said just bring it in when I get it. He‘s set aside a time slot for me and it will be ready for me the next day.

Great service considering I am a new customer and have never purchased anything in his shop ever… I will most definitely be buying some stuff I need from him when my bike is done (as opposed to online) because of the treatment I’ve gotten so far.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Rob801 said:


> I get not wanting other hands on your bike… I just don’t have the experience, or the time/patience to do it myself at the moment. I have faith in where I’m taking it. One man shop. Very well reviewed. Very good feeling from the few interactions I’ve had with him since march. Went in today, asked if things have calmed down for him since sept. Nope but he said just bring it in when I get it. He‘s set aside a time slot for me and it will be ready for me the next day.
> 
> Great service considering I am a new customer and have never purchased anything in his shop ever… I will most definitely be buying some stuff I need from him when my bike is done (as opposed to online) because of the treatment I’ve gotten so far.


Moreso, it is my form of artwork. I enjoy the experience of building the bike, dialing it in and most of all.... Wait for it! Wheel builds. They are a work of art that is awesome to experience them going together and becoming ready to ride. A labor of love, if you will/

In due time you shall be doing your adjustments and such. It really isn't difficult, but we all need to learn. Park Tool has very well produced instructional videos that can bring much knowledge to you and get you on the right track. 
Meanwhile, you will have made a great resource available to you by doing biz with your LBS. Worthy!


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## michaelandk2 (May 15, 2019)

Yeah I should have done my own build(not that I had any time to do it...). Not terrible by my shop... but not great, and more expensive because it took them a long time. Lots of details slightly off, in their defense they don't get to many high end mtb's coming through.

I'll post a few shots today if my wife will send me some pics. Still waiting on her pedals (back ordered ht components ones like 2 months ago), a fender, and probably will eventually move off the stock handlebars, and stickers ;D. I soooo want to move my pike ultimate onto it for the glorious silver... but trying to keep it a little bit stealth. Also the fork at 130 + 27.5 x 2.6 tires, that would put the bb around 311 I'm guessing... which might be a little low I'm not sure.


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## da_kube (Aug 6, 2019)

Had just one real ride on the MiddleChild due to work/life/weather issues but she’s a stunner so far. The frame fit and finish is really something. And I’m running a 200mm dropper easily on the size large.

I bought the steel frame with the al build because I just wanted backup for parts I couldn’t source in time and preferred the short offset fork. Still waiting on the Pike or CC helm fork and I’ll swap the bars for OneUp carbons once I get the cockpit dialed. Other changes to the spec include TRP quadiem brakes (these are so good on my FS), hand built wheels with I9 1/1s laced to Stans MK3 barons (27.5+, dead sexy stealth decals), PNW loam dropper/lever with matching teal (is real) bands, looney bin wine/cold brew cage, GX cassette and WTB cromoly Volt saddle.


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## da_kube (Aug 6, 2019)

and Banshee, I built it myself for the first time. I am not a great mechanic so I did a lot of homework and went slow. My mechanic checked my work and he said I was 1-2 loose bolts away from perfection!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

da_kube said:


> and Banshee, I built it myself for the first time. I am not a great mechanic so I did a lot of homework and went slow. My mechanic checked my work and he said I was 1-2 loose bolts away from perfection!


Awesome build! 
So much better when we do the build and feel the anticipation gnawing at us the whole time! That sense of this is my bike is so much deeper too. 

At the moment, I am in search of a custom Ti bar 50-60mm rise with 12° backsweep, 6-8° upsweep for a more trialsy feel.


----------



## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

My bike is supposed to arrive tomorrow the 26th... should I be concerned that the last tracking update was Thursday from Illinois? Its coming to Southern California (I have been refreshing the tracking regularly... Might even say obsessively lol).

I didn't expect much over the weekend, but I thought for sure when I woke up this morning it would be at a closer location.


10/21/2021
1:50 P.M.*On the Way*
Hodgkins, IL, United States10/19/2021
6:17 P.M.*Shipped*
Concord, ON, Canada


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

I wouldn’t be concerned at this point. Tonight should have an arrival at your local distribution center


----------



## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

BansheeRune said:


> I wouldn’t be concerned at this point. Tonight should have an arrival at your local distribution center


Ok, just updated to Bell, CA… about an hour and a half away, and got a mail earlier today confirming delivery tomorrow... I‘m relieved. Tracking is normally more detailed from them.


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Rob801 said:


> Ok, just updated to Bell, CA… about an hour and a half away, and got a mail earlier today confirming delivery tomorrow... I‘m relieved. Tracking is normally more detailed from them.


When you have a parcel coming from a major distribution center to a distant distribution center, they travel straight through so a couple days travel before an arrival scan is not unusual for ground shipping. Glad to hear the delivery is scheduled for tomorrow and you can get a whiff of new bike smell!


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Are we there yet?


----------



## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

BansheeRune said:


> Are we there yet?


Not sure if to me but no not yet 😅. Delivery by end of day today. It’s in my area though. Not home till 4 so actually hope it arrives after that. If it comes earlier my neighbors going to sign for it if they will let him (my UPS delivery’s are almost always end of the day/evening though… which with my luck means they will be there early today 😂).


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Rob801 said:


> Not sure if to me but no not yet 😅. Delivery by end of day today. It’s in my area though. Not home till 4 so actually hope it arrives after that. If it comes earlier my neighbors going to sign for it if they will let him (my UPS delivery’s are almost always end of the day/evening though… which with my luck means they will be there early today 😂).


Well, yaaa! I know you are jonesin' super hard so hadta go there!


----------



## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

BansheeRune said:


> Well, yaaa! I know you are jonesin' super hard so hadta go there!


Ha ha, yeah got it 👍😁. Couple initial pics (and shameless plug of my other two wheeler).

Unpacked it at the bike shop. Had a good talk with the proprietor. He was impressed with the quality and build 🙂. Not as pre assembled as he had envisioned so costing me a little more to build but I don’t care. Got me some purple stems to match the frame (which looks absolutely fantastic… pictures don't do it justice). Will be ready tomorrow or Thursday.

More to follow…


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Rob,

Gonna look awesome and wait til you ride it and you find out how much you have been missing until now! 
Hope you love it as much as I do my Tennis Ball Yellow one!


----------



## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

I gotta say, that purple would be the only color I'd swap highlighter yellow for.


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

drivera said:


> I gotta say, that purple would be the only color I'd swap highlighter yellow for.


I thought the same until I looked at myHouse of Kolor samples again. The eggplant cannot be duplicated however, the Ti option is a factory approved replacement for Tennis 🎾 yellow


----------



## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

Well the day FINALLY arrived and the bike is absolutely gorgeous! The shop owner that built it was impressed with the build/quality. The people that came in the shop while I was picking it up also admired it .

I’ve already found out a few things in the very short time I’ve owned it… things I hadn’t thought of. Man the bike feels big (in a good way) just night and day from my circa 2012 Cube mtb. My dropper is at the lowest it can be adjusted and is just right. I lucked out there. I was not aware there was a limit to how far down they could go (in raised position). Makes sense, I just hadn’t thought about it may be a possible problem (an inch higher and it would have been).

I’m also really glad I went with the 27.5 tires. I think the 29’s would have made the bike feel too big (at least to start with) again, the bike feels big even with the 27.5’s.

I got rid of my A3 and bought a Jeep Cherokee thinking I could just throw my bike in the back and go… I was wrong (I can but it is tight and I have to take off the front wheel, don’t want to do that every outing) 😅… that’s of course not the only reason I got a new car, and that style (that would be a whole OT discussion for the soap box on its own), but now I need to invest in a way to carry my bike, asap. So I’m looking at a few hundred bucks more pretty much whatever I decide (either need to install a trailer hitch and buy a rack for that,
or get Ross bars for my roof rack and a bike rack for that.

Anyway, I’ll get there 😁. Eventually.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Rob,

Sunspot knows the back of my 89 Cherokee as well as the Yota very well! He stands to one side with the front wheel next to him jonesin to get out and rip up some terrain! There is the full size Cheby Van for wheels on transport too. 

Now, looking at those pix, I am pleased to see a photo that is properly exposed, showing that purple that looks so bitchen. Congratz! 

Now you have a taste of the MC! Doesn't taste like cheeken, either, tastes like bitchen!


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## Rob801 (Jul 23, 2021)

Thanks Banshee,

I got lucky with the pics, just my iPhone from 18’ so not even the latest greatest, but used to have SLR/DSLR’s and a little photo bug and they do look way better than I expected them to. I am more than happy with the purple… much more 😀
The Middle Child is very bitchen and I can’t wait to take it out on it’s first run this weekend.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Rob801 said:


> Thanks Banshee,
> 
> I got lucky with the pics, just my iPhone from 18’ so not even the latest greatest, but used to have SLR/DSLR’s and a little photo bug and they do look way better than I expected them to. I am more than happy with the purple… much more 😀
> The Middle Child is very bitchen and I can’t wait to take it out on it’s first run this weekend.


You do realize a MC does like to street session, don'tcha?!?!?

Roll that first wheelie or better yet, manual...
I do like that purple but have really not seen pix that display it in its splendor like you did.

My love for my MC is that long frame feel without the stupid 98° STA. Nothing is worse than that feeling like my knees are gonna hit right up under the freakin bars. I actually have room to work with the bike rather than being placed into a bike shaped straightjacket! Ahhhh, comfort.


----------



## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

wow the purple is beautifull


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## michaelandk2 (May 15, 2019)

Finally got around to posting this
It’s super sick 
medium frame.
One upv2 180 dropper/wolf tooth lever
2.6 rekon rear
2.6 dhf front (will move to rekon or dissector in our home town but in nwa this week  )
We are one wheels, silver hydra hubs ^^
Anvl 32mm stem
Ht components pedals on the way
One up 35 mm rise bars on way
Some fun colorful components

Things I want to try.

mullet with my 130 pike ultimate (keep bb in check and frontend in check)
165 cranks
If it were only mine I’d run a 210 bike yoke or oneupV2. The medium is soooo fun to whip around as a 6 foot tall guy.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Does it constitute a checkmate when the bow and stern are in check?

bitchen bike, my friend!


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## altasnob (Feb 9, 2021)




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## Weeknightwarrior (Mar 12, 2021)

Excellent photos.

Building up my Alu frame, and I'm running into a puzzle: can anyone fill me in on chainline?

My assumption was that the the SLX M7100 crankset model appropriate for boost spacing would be pretty close to the 52mm chainline quoted in the Shimano spec sheet, using the standard setup for 73mm BB shell (naïvely assuming a single spacer on the drive-side BB cup, like every other boost frame I've built up). When I install the SLX crankset with 32mm chainring on this BB setup, the space between the chainring and the chainstay is _really_ tight. No room for a shop towel in the gap, maybe 1mm or less between the inside of the chainring teeth and the chainstay.

It seems like I have it setup with the incorrect chainring part, but I can't work out what's gone wrong. I'm worried that if I do something that causes the frame to flex even a small amount, the 32t ring will scrape the stay.

What did I screw up?


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## Weeknightwarrior (Mar 12, 2021)

Also, back-pedaling (which isn't a normal part of riding at all for me, so more something I notice in the work stand) results in the chain dropping to to a higher gear.



Weeknightwarrior said:


> Excellent photos.
> 
> Building up my Alu frame, and I'm running into a puzzle: can anyone fill me in on chainline?
> 
> ...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

I would start with test fitting the chainring by flipping it. As for the crankset, I kinda lost touch with the options out there when I standardized my collection with RF Turbine and Atlas for interchange capability. Nice to have one style of chain rings and BB bearings on the shelf to take care of 5 RSD's. 

Chain drop may be resolved with B bolt adjustment. Depends on chain line and where it lies as to whether that will solve it tho'.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

drivera said:


> I gotta say, that purple would be the only color I'd swap highlighter yellow for.


That purple is very nice.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My GF injured herself doing some extreme gardening [don't ask! ] so we've been trying to get her out for some chill explorer type rides the last couple weekends to check out Fall in our new town. Hopefully she'll be feeling good enough to shred the gnar next weekend. 🤘 The Middlechild is up for anything so it doesn't mind cruising along on a relaxing ride. 👌





































FWIW - she's digging the high rise Deity bars so they are keepers.


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## Weeknightwarrior (Mar 12, 2021)

Quick snapshot post-build. Raw Alu in size XL. FUN and confidence inspiring ride. I've already been tempted by the fork and geo to get in over my head in terms of just pointing it through terrain at full suspension speeds - need to brush up on HT skills!










SLX group. 150mm pike ultimate. 29er 35mm rims w/2.5"DHF 2.5 up front and clapped out 2.4"DHR until new rubber arrives (not the lightest or fastest, but more traction than I have guts to match...)

Will experiment with 140mm air spring and also 40mm vs 50mm stems to see how it feels.

Issues so far:

Rear wheel is not on-center inside the frame with the dropouts slammed all the way back, so I need to figure out what's going on there (maybe presumptuous of me to assume that the slot limits would be exactly in alignment? First time with this type of dropout, but it's visibly off center a couple mm to the non-drive side of things.)
Chainring clearance just seems insanely tight w the bog-standard Shimano BB and 32t chainring / SLX crankset I'm used to from other boost setups. Not much room for trail-gunk in there, and have already had to floss some out post-ride.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Weeknightwarrior said:


> Rear wheel is not on-center inside the frame with the dropouts slammed all the way back, so I need to figure out what's going on there (maybe presumptuous of me to assume that the slot limits would be exactly in alignment? First time with this type of dropout, but it's visibly off center a couple mm to the non-drive side of things.)


Worth investigating in case there is some frame damage, but I would just adjust the wheel to be centered in the frame. Could just be excessive paint in the slot or something else minor.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Weeknightwarrior said:


> Issues so far:
> 
> Rear wheel is not on-center inside the frame with the dropouts slammed all the way back, so I need to figure out what's going on there (maybe presumptuous of me to assume that the slot limits would be exactly in alignment? First time with this type of dropout, but it's visibly off center a couple mm to the non-drive side of things.)
> Chainring clearance just seems insanely tight w the bog-standard Shimano BB and 32t chainring / SLX crankset I'm used to from other boost setups. Not much room for trail-gunk in there, and have already had to floss some out post-ride.


1. Check dropout adjustment since dropout setting can be the number one issue.

2. Remove the rear wheel and dropouts. Now clean any paint buildup from the contact points the dropouts will live on. Reassemble. This will allow the dropouts to be in line with the frame as designed. 

3. Next on the list is wheel dishing. Sounds more like this may be the primary culprit, assuming the dropouts are properly set. Keep in mind, dropout setting can be the number one issue. I have had to re-dish many mosheen built wheels since they are not as lovingly made as hand built. 

Frankly, #1 is what I am thinking is at fault.

Chainring clearance...

I am running with Race Face Atlas and Turbine cranks on five bikes since interchange of chainrings and other parts is Important.
My Middlechild... Is a pithy little fellow with a 30T that is indeed close. With my Cinch system, I can easily solve the issue with a spindle change. I really don't pay it any mind since the singlespeed Transmission is performing spot on. 
There is only a few mm's between the ring teeth and yoke, it clears and it's all good.


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## michaelandk2 (May 15, 2019)

So.... this doesn't seem right, measured my bb at 323 with a retractable tape measure. I have 27.5 (R Rekon, F DHF, 30mm WeR1 rims) at 140mm travel, shouldn't it be 315? I must be measuring it incorrectly? I guess the narrower than stock rims could be raising it slightly (however the rekon and dhf only real life measure out to 2.5 at the most)...

Anyway just trying to see if it would be doable to go to 130mm travel to try it out but don't want to make the bb to low, as I have already noticed it feels pretty low with the 175mm stock cranks.

Anyone run a similiar setup? 130mm travel fork with 2.6ish tires and 175mm cranks? Have any issues with pedal strikes?

I would think that >should< put the bb right around 310. Which seems on the low side hardtails on a 130mm travel fork.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My GF's 2019 MC BBH is ~325mm measured inaccurately with a tape. She's running 27 x 2.8" DHF/DHR on 40 or 45mm rims and 140mm 29er fork. Probably 175mm cranks and no pedal strike issues as the MC has a low BB drop.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I have very long legs. I was used to 175 arms.
The way i see it those are for road.
I loved 165 for mountain when i tried them.
Now my new bike came with 160 mm and i have no problem.
Where i ride i like a high bike but if only the pedals are your problem 
i would get 165 arms.


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## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

My lengthy HT search has brought me to one of two choices. One being the MC (ti). At slightly over 6' with a longer inseam & arms w/ short torso I'm opting for the L. Some of you have posted similar body types and gone with L so that confirms that aspect of the purchase.
My dilemma now is tyre size. I currently have a 29+ HT but really want something a little faster and more maneuverable. At my height and 205lbs would I be ok running 27.5 2.5's ? Not sure if 29's would be better and sacrifice a little handling or a maybe a 27.5+ setup would be a good compromise? For the hell of it.....is anyone running theirs as a mullet yet?
So basically I'm looking for wheel/tyre size recommendations. Mostly ride N.E. Pa. trails nothing too technical.I have not contacted RSD yet for their thoughts but do plan to. Thanks


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Jake, you just described me to a tee! I LOVE my MC.

205 might go down after the MC arrives and you get hooked so bad you need a 12 step for bike addiction!

My MC is setup as a b+ for the trialsy requirement to be met. I play always! 27.5 feels a bit more maneuverable with less effort and I am not sure if that is an illusion vs. 29+. 2.5 would be fine for most terrain where flotation is less needed in either wheel size. The best part is that the MC is such a flexible foundation, you can change it up readily.



33red said:


> I have very long legs. I was used to 175 arms.
> The way i see it those are for road.
> I loved 165 for mountain when i tried them.
> Now my new bike came with 160 mm and i have no problem.
> ...


My 36" inseam... Have 170's on one bike and going less in the mountainous terrain means I would have less leverage and need to gear down, most likely. 170's with a 30T/ 36-11 is working wonders on the Sergeant V3 so far.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

After riding 29x2.4, 27.5 with 2.6, 2.8 and 3.0 my suggestion is 27.5x2.8. You might switch to 3.0 or 2.6.
That gives you tons of tire options for different seasons and is just fun to ride.
Your cassette can be 11/42 or 11/46 in 10S. Try testing shorter arms.
My new bike has 160 and i love them.


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## jiggerjake (Sep 25, 2007)

Banshee and red thanks for the reply. Yes I'm trying to reap the benefits of a Ti frame by keeping the rest of the build relatively lite( as possible ) for my size. B+ or B 2.8's sound like a good starting point.
Banshee after reading back 10 pages or so of this thread you were one of the people I was referring too when I mentioned sizing.Thanks


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

33red said:


> After riding 29x2.4, 27.5 with 2.6, 2.8 and 3.0 my suggestion is 27.5x2.8. You might switch to 3.0 or 2.6.
> That gives you tons of tire options for different seasons and is just fun to ride.
> Your cassette can be 11/42 or 11/46 in 10S. Try testing shorter arms.
> My new bike has 160 and i love them.


There is a shall statement to be obeyed, I refer to it as a short cage derailleur. With my Middlechild, named Sunspot cause of the retina burn yellow, well, that bike is a one speed automatic transmission with towing package brakes! Annnnd, I have hoarded 3.0's since each and every time I have tried a 2.8, I couldn't get those f u c k e r s offa my bike fast enough, with the exception being the G-Ones for the skatepark.




jiggerjake said:


> Banshee and red thanks for the reply. Yes I'm trying to reap the benefits of a Ti frame by keeping the rest of the build relatively lite( as possible ) for my size. B+ or B 2.8's sound like a good starting point.
> Banshee after reading back 10 pages or so of this thread you were one of the people I was referring too when I mentioned sizing.Thanks


I keep pondering a Ti frame... No thought will be given to weight but showered into bitchen!


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

I keep toying with a Ti frame as well... Although I would looooove to try a size small to goof around with. I own a medium and I am 99% certain the medium is the frame for me- just wonder how much more I could throw around a small. Hey anyone out there with a small steel frame they want to sell?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NJ Gator said:


> I keep toying with a Ti frame as well... Although I would looooove to try a size small to goof around with. I own a medium and I am 99% certain the medium is the frame for me- just wonder how much more I could throw around a small. Hey anyone out there with a small steel frame they want to sell?


check with Steve “HardtailParty”. He may still have one.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My GF doesn't love snow riding as much as me, but when I get her out she does enjoy it. The 27+ tires worked well in our heavy wet snow.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Vik, a little snow never stopped a Middlechild from playing, don'tcha know! Drop the pressure a wee bit and go.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

We ain't staying home just because it's white outside.










The Middlechild handled the snow like a champ.










...and left me in the dust. 🤣🤘


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Mrs. Vik shows the Vik how it's done.... IN THE SNOW!!! Great that you both had some adventures in the season of white adventure! Have to say, it appears that she is really enjoying the Middlechild. 

This is great to see. Christmas eve brought fresh snow and my Middlechild also had some snow time. Wearing a pair of Nobby Nic 3.0 performance to eliminate the snakeoil that would eliminate supple makes it easier yet. Low pressure for more tread into the surface was on tap.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I'm glad you got out in the snow BR. 👌


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

vikb said:


> I'm glad you got out in the snow BR. 👌


MC, Mayor and Sarge II had a little time out in the snow. Good stuff!


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## Schmeg (Nov 2, 2021)

BansheeRune said:


> As for performance with 2.5's, keep in mind, there are some that are heavier than my 4.8's which is wholly unacceptable. With the BB already at a low position smaller tires may be outta the question.





BansheeRune said:


> MC, Mayor and Sarge II had a little time out in the snow. Good stuff!


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## Schmeg (Nov 2, 2021)

Off topic, Banshee, I read in a 2 month old post that you have a blood cancer. I also have the same condition. Stage 3 Grade 3b Non Hodgkins Lymphoma. Currently in remission. I ride fat almost daily to stay in shape and keep the cancer bug away.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Schmeg said:


> Off topic, Banshee, I read in a 2 month old post that you have a blood cancer. I also have the same condition. Stage 3 Grade 3b Non Hodgkins Lymphoma. Currently in remission. I ride fat almost daily to stay in shape and keep the cancer bug away.


What I have is a rare genetic based cancer that was diagnosed due to markers present in a routine blood workup associated with kidney disease, another genetic issue. My warranty expired so everything is falling apart, I suppose. This diagnosis made for a very early detection and treatment plan that started early on. Prognosis is said to be better than excellent due to the early detection. As I go through treatment, I do try to keep living life as normal as possible. My bikes are therapeutic beyond description! 

Now, let's keep you in remission! Hope for the best and stay healthy! 

Thanks, Schmeg!


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

NJ Gator said:


> I keep toying with a Ti frame as well... Although I would looooove to try a size small to goof around with. I own a medium and I am 99% certain the medium is the frame for me- just wonder how much more I could throw around a small. Hey anyone out there with a small steel frame they want to sell?


I won't sell my small until I have another frame (that I haven't decided on either) as I don't want to be bikeless in this market of short supplies. But I have toyed with the idea. I'll keep you in mind, if I pull the trigger.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

drivera said:


> I won't sell my small until I have another frame (that I haven't decided on either) *as I don't want to be bikeless in this market of short supplies*. But I have toyed with the idea. I'll keep you in mind, if I pull the trigger.


Smart! ^^^


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

vikb said:


> Smart! ^^^


Indeed!


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## NJ Gator (Jul 27, 2019)

drivera said:


> I won't sell my small until I have another frame (that I haven't decided on either) as I don't want to be bikeless in this market of short supplies. But I have toyed with the idea. I'll keep you in mind, if I pull the trigger.


COOL MAN! THANKS SO MUCH!!! TOtally agree- Need to keep all the options open in this market! Thanks for keeping me in mind!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

A Middlechild in the wild. 🤓


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

The Middlechild getting drifty.










Bar Mitts for the win.










Nice light in the forest.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Vik, I just hope your grin was as joy filled as hers was in those pix! Looks like a good time out there.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

New year's resolution, get skinny, think I'm doing it wrong...or right


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## drivera (Apr 25, 2013)

what size wheels/tires you running there?


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

drivera said:


> what size wheels/tires you running there?


 27,5 X 2,8 Bontrager XR4 on Reynolds wheels (from my Pivot)


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

screamingbunny said:


> New year's resolution, get skinny, think I'm doing it wrong...or right
> View attachment 1964179


Looks perfect to me. 🤘


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My GF exploring some new trails.










The Middlechild smile.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Well, Vik... Looks like the second pic shows an example of what happens with the right bike on the trail!
Hafta say, looks like good times on the trails, carry on...


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## tntmikep (Feb 1, 2021)

Sorry for the shitty phone pics, but it's what I got. 2 rides in on the bike & I love it so far.

-Middle Child M aluminum frame
-Marchocci Bomber Z2 140mm
-DT Swiss M1700 wheelset 350 hubs w/36t ratchet 40mm id 
-Maxxis Rekon+/Ikon+ 27.5x2.8
-Slx crankset and mech 32t 11/46 11sp wolftooth crank gear sunrace cassette
-Raceface Turbine stem, bars (20mm rise cut to 760mm), & grips 
-Shimano M420 4 piston calipers, Deore levers, 180mm Shimano rotors 
-Oneup 150mm dropper & lever 
-Wolftooth post clamp 
-WTB volt seat 
Some parts are takeoffs from my previous bike and some are new


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I like the raw AL frame....looks nice. 👌


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Mike, those pix are just fine! Welcome to the Middlechild zone. Enjoy the ride, buddy!


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## TylerYarasi (11 mo ago)

Need opinions yall,

I am building up a cro-mo middle child. Planning on running 29x2.6 tires (true to size ones at that) and I know the BB height on these frames is already on the high side, I am thinking the BB might be a bit too high and give the bike a weird ride feel with a standard 140mm fork, and maybe I should use a shorter travel fork to compensate.

I just so happen to have both 140mm and 120mm fox forks. The 120mm is a 34 rhythm and the 140mm is a 36 performance elite. I am thinking of using the 120mm and selling the 140. I have measured and the difference between the two in axle to crown length comes in at about 2cm (what you'd expect)

Good idea or no?


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## Doug_J (Oct 5, 2009)

TylerYarasi said:


> Need opinions yall,
> 
> I am building up a cro-mo middle child. Planning on running 29x2.6 tires (true to size ones at that) and I know the BB height on these frames is already on the high side, I am thinking the BB might be a bit too high and give the bike a weird ride feel with a standard 140mm fork, and maybe I should use a shorter travel fork to compensate.
> 
> ...



I would put the 140 on it and see how you like it, then try the 120 if you feel you need to. Keep the fork you like best...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

TylerYarasi said:


> Need opinions yall,
> 
> I am building up a cro-mo middle child. Planning on running 29x2.6 tires (true to size ones at that) and I know the BB height on these frames is already on the high side, I am thinking the BB might be a bit too high and give the bike a weird ride feel with a standard 140mm fork, and maybe I should use a shorter travel fork to compensate.
> 
> ...


Shorter fork is going to sully the geo of the bike. BB is not at all what I consider high. Pedalstrike factory is the endgame.


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## TylerYarasi (11 mo ago)

Alright you guys convinced me. I will try the 140 first. It's a nicer fork anyways.

I am almost done with this build, just need a drivetrain. Should be maybe another week or so and then I will update you guys with a picture.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

TylerYarasi said:


> Alright you guys convinced me. I will try the 140 first. It's a nicer fork anyways.
> 
> I am almost done with this build, just need a drivetrain. Should be maybe another week or so and then I will update you guys with a picture.


Good stuff, Tyler! What I can tell you is... The Middlechild is a real treat to ride everywhere (almost)
Keeping the geometry where it is intended makes this happen. 
I am using a 150mm Pike that I scored for a song and a dance and am more than happy with how the bike works.
This bike is equally at home on a backcountry singletrack as a downtown street session. My build is a singlespeed to return to the roots of the mountain bike experience. Well, that has been an awesome choice on my part...

Back to your build... BB runs a little low on these in the frame regardless of wheel diameter. BB elevation can make it more "planted" or more "playful" so think about that. Gears! Those are just as fun as SS. Out on the trails, you are going to be aboard an adventure factory. 27.5 or 29, they are stellar performers, period.

Looking forward to your report on the first ride! (This is gonna be good)


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## TylerYarasi (11 mo ago)

I'm waiting on the GX drivetrain and wolf paw grips in the mail, but everything else is together. Full cost of the build including the stuff that is still on the way is 2100. Pinkbike and FB marketplace have some sweet deals if you look hard enough.
I'm a little sad that the Vittoria tires are different colors and sizes, despite supposedly being the same color and and size on the same rim width. The rear measures 2.6 and the front only 2.4.
Apart from that this thing is looking pretty good. Ignore the dirty garage. I'll post some finished pictures and a build list when I'm done.


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## TylerYarasi (11 mo ago)

Build finished. Total cost 2,085$. Found some very good deals in the making of this bike.

Size Large Middlechild frame and Truvativ Descendant bars (Pinkbike)$710.00Fox 36 Perf. Elite 140mm fork and salsa 50mm stem (Facebook)$510.00Avid elixir trail 7 4 piston front/rear brakes and WTB volt saddle (Facebook)$40.00AB oval chainring, Race Face pedals, and Trans X skyline dropper/lever (free from a facebook bundle deal)$0.00Wheels specialized evo with dt swiss spokes and SRAM 180mm rotors (Facebook)$210.00Vittoria 29x2.6 Mezcal rear and Agarro front with rear vittoria airliner (Pinkbike)$100.00Full GX Lunar drivetrain including chain and BB (Pinkbike SpeedVisionShop)$500.00Easton grips (Facebook)$10.00Cables (Bonzai Cycle Werx local shop)$15.00Tubeless sealant$10.00Sold GX chainring-20Total2085

It weighs in with pedals at 32.8 lbs. I knew it was going to be a heavy, it is steel after all.

I took it for a ride around the block after taking pictures. First thing I noticed is the reach feels shorter than I anticipated. I am only 5'11 but for some reason this large feels a bit small. I slammed the seat all the way back and that helped. I may also get a longer stem. The bars have a pretty good sweep on them and that is probably contributing.

Second thing I noticed is that this thing bunny hops really well. It is going to be loads of fun for jumps.

The BB is high with the 29x2.6 tires, just enough to notice it. It gives a sort of "on-top" feel as opposed to a "down-in" feel. It's not overwhelmingly high though, and it is going to mean less pedal strikes as well.

The colors came together really well. The Lunar GX groupset is beautiful, and adds a bit of grey that goes well with the grey tires and grey brakes. The groupset is also very shiny, which goes well with the shiny orange of the frame. It looks way better in person than it does in the pictures.

Can't wait to ride it on a trail.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Tyler, that is looking very nice! Looking forward to the ride report that is incoming. You are in for a treat!


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

spring is in the air, time to start dustin em off kids


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

screamingbunny, I'll hafta wash some snow grime off cause there is no dust.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

Question for anyone running their middle child as a mullet. How much travel travel do you have? Also, what offset?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

noosa2 said:


> Question for anyone running their middle child as a mullet. How much travel travel do you have? Also, what offset?


Oh my! I have thought about doing this but have not as of yet. Think it might be awesome tho'.
Rake, the smaller rake might be a good idea as it would likely keep caster closer to stock.


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## michaelandk2 (May 15, 2019)

I have on mine. At 130 it works fairly well, 120 would probably be ideal


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## areeves08 (Jan 7, 2020)

I decided to powdercoat my MC frame to get away from the Turquoise. PC'd in Misty Midnight...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

areeves08 said:


> I decided to powdercoat my MC frame to get away from the Turquoise. PC'd in Misty Midnight...
> View attachment 1988340


Now you're cookin'!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My GF has been riding her RSD MC for 3 years and is still loving it. I'm glad we took a chance and ordered one. At the time it wasn't clear if she'd get into hardtailing or if she'd like this particular HT. She's had a lot of fun on it. 🤘


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## stm32disco (Jun 7, 2017)

Yup, this is a great bike. I'm currently riding mine in 27.5x2.4 configuration and I think this might be my favourite. It feels so nimble.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Cannot get enough of my V1 set up as a one speed automatic, 3.0's and Hope brakes to use for steering at a number of locations.

Way to go, stm32disco! The his n hers models are lovely!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

We didn't know it at the time, but this was my GF's last MC ride. After 4 years of shredding this beast she's moved on to a different HT frame. I have to thank the MC for opening her eyes to the joys of riding a HT....especially in "adverse" conditions. 🤘


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Vik, sad news, I suppose however, I would love to hear about the next bike Mrs. Vik will be rolling with.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

BansheeRune said:


> Vik, sad news, I suppose however, I would love to hear about the next bike Mrs. Vik will be rolling with.


Here you go --> Am I Sirius about SS or is it just a Pipedream?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

vikb said:


> Here you go --> Am I Sirius about SS or is it just a Pipedream?


Thankya, Vik!


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