# Have not bought lights in 6 years bring me up to speed



## newking (Nov 6, 2007)

Ok so my old set of lights finally died. My head is spinning reading the forum on the new technology with lights. From what I can see the way to go is to get a LED light that is cordless (self contained). 

I'm looking for a bar and helmet combo - wireless for up to 2 hour rides.

I know I should search the forum more but can somebody chime in what is working for them?


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

The type of set up is very subjective,, what works for one may be the complete opposite of what another may choose. What would help would be to know,

- Budget
- Type of riding, and length of rides, do you ever go longer than two hours?
- How bright do you want to go,,(how's your night vision?)

Keep in mind if you go wireless you will be limited to lower outputs and run times compared to systems with separate battery's. That wont be an issue if you have good night vision and don't need big output. Cateye makes several wireless lights as well as cygolite /Fenix and if you have a good budget and want one of the best out there check out Exposurelightsusa.com, they have some nice stuff. If you decide that systems with external battery's will be ok check out actionledlights.com ans look at the Gloworm/Gemini products. Cheers!!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

newking said:


> Ok so my old set of lights finally died. My head is spinning reading the forum on the new technology with lights. From what I can see the way to go is to get a LED light that is cordless (self contained).
> 
> I'm looking for a bar and helmet combo - wireless for up to 2 hour rides.
> 
> I know I should search the forum more but can somebody chime in what is working for them?


I really don't know why someone who has not updated their lights in the last 6 years would be interested in something self-contained. Back in the day when I used to use torches for bike use it was only because torches were cheap and dedicated LED lamp sets for bikes were very expensive. Such is no longer the case anymore. Other than for helmet use I see no point in using a self-contained torch or lamp for the bars. You have better options for bar use for as little as $30. That said it holds true for helmet use as well.

Yes, you can buy higher quality self contained lamps today but they can be quite expensive. Still they are sometimes bulky, have mounting stability issues and have limited run times / battery switch out issues. Unless you ride for shorter periods of time and/or with lower levels of light, I have a hard time understanding why someone would prefer such a set-up but ehh, to each their own I guess.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

newking said:


> From what I can see the way to go is to get a LED light that is cordless (self contained).


It must be assumed that you choose to use your lights at some reasonably slower speeds. If you intend to be blitzing single track at night you will quickly find you will be out-riding your available light if you elect to remain with a 'self-contained' or 'cordless' light. While some dealing with an external battery pack might seem to be packing some extra baggage, you will likely forget that external battery in your pack or pocket when you experience the advantage of truly lighting your path. The yield difference will quickly spoil you. Resistance is futile.

Unfortunately, there is a direct correlation between lumens and disposable income.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Tell us about what kind of riding you plan on doing...that will help.


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## newking (Nov 6, 2007)

Type of riding - Single track - twisty New England Northeast type riding with small rocks, roots and pretty much riding fast at about a 80 pace compared to the daytime

How much - probably not a lot of night riding maybe 1x per week

Budget - have been looking a bit online and it looks like I can get a decent light for around $90-120 each. So budget is 200-300?
looking at cygolites 800 / niterider 750 both cordless (I really like the wireless self contained compared to my old heavy battery system)

How long - usually at night I never ride more than 2 hours. My preference is to go self contained because I usually ride without a back pack and use a seat bag

Vision - I guess OK I have ridden with lights before. My light that just died was 6 years old definately not as bright as what I see out there now? It was a helmet mount 

From what i have seen I will want a flood on the bar and a spot on the helmet?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Please look at the newer systems with separate batteries...so small and light it will blow you away. www.action-led-lights.com Magicshine and Gemini both make nice setups for under $300.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

newking said:


> Type of riding - Single track - twisty New England Northeast type riding with small rocks, roots and pretty much riding fast at about a 80 pace compared to the daytime
> 
> How much - probably not a lot of night riding maybe 1x per week
> 
> ...


 If you go on actionledlights.com and check out the Gloworm X-2/X-1 combo or for a little less $$ the Gemini Duo/Xera and only go for the 2-cell battery's it will be almost like a self contained set up. The battery is small enough to fit on your helmet with the lamp head,, as well as on your stem or top tube for your bar lamp. The difference in output/run times/and beam quality will be night and day better over what your looking at!!

Yes it's more money but guarantied you wont be wishing you had upgraded at a later time after a few rides like you may do with the cygolite/NR. Fast twisty type riding IMO will need more output and a wider spread of light at least on the bars,,, but each to their own. At the end of the day newking what's most important is that you get out there and ride what ever you final choice is. Cheers!!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Available lumens is like money....you can never really have too much.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

indebt said:


> If you go on actionledlights.com and check out the Gloworm X-2/X-1 combo or for a little less $$ the Gemini Duo/Xera and only go for the 2-cell battery's it will be almost like a self contained set up. The battery is small enough to fit on your helmet with the lamp head,, as well as on your stem or top tube for your bar lamp. The difference in output/run times/and beam quality will be night and day better over what your looking at!!
> 
> Yes it's more money but guarantied you wont be wishing you had upgraded at a later time after a few rides like you may do with the cygolite/NR. Fast twisty type riding IMO will need more output and a wider spread of light at least on the bars,,, but each to their own. At the end of the day newking what's most important is that you get out there and ride what ever you final choice is. Cheers!!


This.


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## newking (Nov 6, 2007)

TiGeo said:


> This.


So if I go bar and helmet it will be tough to keep it below 300. But still not bad. I like the looks of the Gemini lights. As long as having the battery on the helmet is not too heavy?

You're right it is almost like a self contained

Guessing the gemini Duo 1500 for the bars and the Gemini Xera 950 for the helmet would be the best combo?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Firstly, I currently run a Duo (helmet)/Xera bar combo...works great. You should be able to pick these two up (light heads only), 2 Magicshine basic 4-cell batteries, a helmet mount, and an extension cord from Action for under $300. For your helmet light, I have no idea why anyone puts the battery on the helmet..seems like it is just extra weight. I just toss mine in my jersey pocket (or Camelbak if you use one) with an extension cable.


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## newking (Nov 6, 2007)

RE: Firstly, I currently run a Duo (helmet)/Xera bar combo...works great

I was thinking the Duo on the bars because it is two lights and looks like it throws a wider pattern and the Xera on the helmet because it can be adjusted to be like a spot light. Is that the protocol - flood on bars and spot on helmet or vice versa?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^yes..that's how I run my setup.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Agreed self contained bar light is not needed. Much better options w/ external battery and they'll just strap to your bike, no big deal.

Yes tho I do get the no wires on the helmet. You could spend the majority of your budget on a great bar light and just buy a small flashlight like an Ultrafire 501b and get extra batteries and a charger. I have 4 batteries and the charger. The flashlight is about 700 lumens and is very bright. The batteries last really about 45 min on bright. But they are not expensive and you'll be in the whole flashlight set up around 50. About 12 for the flashlight and the rest on batteries and charger. You can ride on that flashlight alone if needed. This will allow you a chunk on a bar light and it will be so bright you will laugh.

MB


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## newking (Nov 6, 2007)

thanks for the input everyone. I guess I am looking at the Gemini combo kit for around 300 but also saw this from Jet Lights - F3 combo both wireless and 1000 lumens each
Double F3 Race Combo | JET Lites


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Gloworm or gemini should take of your needs.


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## AKD (May 23, 2012)

My night rides are 2.5 hours long. I night ride 2-3 times a month currently, likely to go up once winter sets in. I ride mostly on fireroad, with some singletrack/stairs mixed in.

My current setup is a Serfas TSL 1000 on the bars (flood), with external battery pack mounted to the top tube, and a MagicShine 808U on the helmet (1000 lumen spot) with upgraded battery pack in my Camelback. Combined price was $200 through a mix of SteepandCheap and Amazon. I think this is plenty of light, and lasts (with judicial use of the batteries) easily over my 2.5 hour rides. As one ultra-marathoner told me on Saturday night, "you're REALLY, REALLY BRIGHT." 

If you get a helmet light, try to keep the weight of the light head at 100 grams or so. Any more and you may start to feel the pressure on the top of your head.


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## Eastcoastroots (Mar 23, 2014)

I'm in the same boat as newking - many thanks for recommendations. Just browsing on action-led-lights - is there any particular reason I should not choose the Gemini Olympia over the Gloworm X2? They both look like excellent lights. Head weight looks about the same, price is similar, battery life is similar (very slightly heavier on the Olympia but will be in the Camelbak), but Olympia seems brighter from a lumens perspective. Anything to do with beam pattern? 

Like OP I'm on tight, twisty singletrack, always between 4-15 miles/hour, usually pretty cool night temperatures up here (between 7C/45F up to 29C/85F, generally somewhere in the middle). Rides are always less than 2.5 hours.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^My understanding is that the Olympia would act better as a bar-mounted light. What are you thinking of paring it with?


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## Eastcoastroots (Mar 23, 2014)

Good point - I was considering only one light at this time. Why would the Olympia be better as a bar light? It looks slightly lighter than the X2 and comes with a helmet mount...is it anything to do with beam pattern?

My buddy just got a Light & Motion 1500 on his bar and it throws awesome light - very wide and bright - but in tight twisty stuff he can't really look ahead to the next corner with the bar light of course (and more importantly the L&M light only lasts about 90 minutes, so for 2-hour rides he has to turn it down to a lower setting).

I only really have about $300 to spend on a light this year, so I was thinking I might buy a nice light like the X2 or the Olympia, use it solo, and then eventually pair it with another light, next fall perhaps. In that case would people recommend getting a single helmet or bar light?

Many thanks for the response!


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Two lights is really what you need for the reason you state (seeing in tight twisties) as well as having some redundancy built in case of a failure. For $300, you should be able to pick up a complete set from action. Price out 2 light heads, 2 batteries, a helmet mount, and an ext. cable. The Gemini Xera/Duo combo should get you there.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

*Just wanting to give you something else to think about*

Eastcoastroots and newking -

I am a longtime MTBR member and night time riding freak. I am not sure if you have heard about the lights I build called the Amoeba? Shoot me an email to [email protected] and I can forward you some information on what I can offer. I stand behind every light I have built in over 6 years, no need to keep buying new lights. I can also upgrade the LED's and reflectors to whatever is the latest and the greatest. I am currently using Cree XM-L2's for bar mounted applications and Cree XP-G2's for helmet applications. It seems like all the light manufacturers are only using XM-L2's or XM-L's, even for helmet mounted applications. The Cree XP-G2"s throw a nice spot beam down the trail ahead of the flood beam of the XM-L2's.

My batteries are a little more expensive than the overseas stuff but the payoff is that is that I am still running my original packs from over 6 years ago. I am not trying to retire building lights, it is just a huge passion for me. I purchase high quality raw materials that I know I can stand behind for years and am paying myself back a little for all the labor involved.

Do a search on MTBR for Amoeba bike lights and you will find a bunch of great threads.

******


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Eastcoastroots said:


> I'm in the same boat as newking - many thanks for recommendations. Just browsing on action-led-lights - is there any particular reason I should not choose the Gemini Olympia over the Gloworm X2? They both look like excellent lights. Head weight looks about the same, price is similar, battery life is similar (very slightly heavier on the Olympia but will be in the Camelbak), but Olympia seems brighter from a lumens perspective. Anything to do with beam pattern?
> 
> Like OP I'm on tight, twisty singletrack, always between 4-15 miles/hour, usually pretty cool night temperatures up here (between 7C/45F up to 29C/85F, generally somewhere in the middle). Rides are always less than 2.5 hours.


 All though the Olympia is a good light keep in mind in 2014 light shoot out it measured way below advertised 2100 lumens, in fact it was below 1500. So very similar output to the X-2 which I believe measured around 1400 lumens.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

DiNotte XML-3 $229. 1600+ Lumens


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Two of these, under $100, great light :thumbsup:$46.46 Yinding 2 x CREE XM-L U2 1800LM 4-Mode White LED Bike Light / Headlamp-Red(4x18650)


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## Eastcoastroots (Mar 23, 2014)

AKD said:


> My night rides are 2.5 hours long. I night ride 2-3 times a month currently, likely to go up once winter sets in. I ride mostly on fireroad, with some singletrack/stairs mixed in.
> 
> My current setup is a Serfas TSL 1000 on the bars (flood), with external battery pack mounted to the top tube, and a MagicShine 808U on the helmet (1000 lumen spot) with upgraded battery pack in my Camelback. Combined price was $200 through a mix of SteepandCheap and Amazon. I think this is plenty of light, and lasts (with judicial use of the batteries) easily over my 2.5 hour rides. As one ultra-marathoner told me on Saturday night, "you're REALLY, REALLY BRIGHT."
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info - PM sent.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Just remember that when you go the cheapie route, its a bit of a roulette game of what you will get (weatherproofness, type of connector, etc.). I have one of the "good" versions of that light and ordered a second but got one that was kinda crappy so I ended up selling it. To me, they are great spares/backups...currently I use my Yinding on the road bike. My Geminis are my primary setup. At a minimum, plan on getting better batteries if you go the cheapie route as the ones that come with these can be cruddy.


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## kevin267 (Mar 9, 2011)

I like my combo of a solarstorm x2 cheapo on the bars and then a self contained (no wires or battery pack) niterider lumina 700 on my helmet, so nice having a self contained light on the helmet!


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Eastcoastroots said:


> Good point - I was considering only one light at this time. Why would the Olympia be better as a bar light? It looks slightly lighter than the X2 and comes with a helmet mount...is it anything to do with beam pattern?
> 
> My buddy just got a Light & Motion 1500 on his bar and it throws awesome light - very wide and bright - but in tight twisty stuff he can't really look ahead to the next corner with the bar light of course (and more importantly the L&M light only lasts about 90 minutes, so for 2-hour rides he has to turn it down to a lower setting).
> 
> ...


I would consider a gemini duo on the bars and a xera for the helmet "lightheads only". Get some batteries from hunk Lee and you'll have a killer set up for under 300$.

Gemini:

Duo
Xera
Helmet Mount
Charger
$208.04

From Action

$67.90 for two hunk Lee panasonic packs 6200mah.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^Why such big batteries? Just get some 4-cells from action.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

TiGeo said:


> ^^^Why such big batteries? Just get some 4-cells from action.


Longer run times? Less expensive?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^understand. $30 for the basic battery from Action. Should run these lights well over 2 hours.


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## Eastcoastroots (Mar 23, 2014)

...but heavier I assume? This is AM trail riding with lots of tough uphill grinds - saving a half-pound here and there is always welcome. I have never ridden for longer than 2 hours at night, so extended battery life well beyond that time isn't really a concern (assuming any battery will fade a little over the next couple years, so it has to have more than 2 hours to start).

I have spoken to scar and his Amoeba lights look very nice, but may be slightly out of my price range ($350 max) if I need to get both a helmet and bar light - but still considering all these new options here.

I have looked at a Gloworm X1 for helmet light, and one of those new Magicshine MJ-862s for a bar flood light. The X1 with only two cells has 2hr 15min life which will be fine, and I can upgrade the MS to 5600mAh battery to push runtime to 2hr 45min. Any thoughts on that combo, or reliability of the MS as bar light, taking into account this is rough east coast bedrock, sharp rocks and nasty roots - lots of jarring and shaking?


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

Most of the newer LED's are fairly reliable and take hits that would knock out the bulb of an incandescent. The silicone strap on the magicshine should also help provide some cushion too. I'd recommend going through Action LED- Jim has been very helpful! I just picked up a pair of Gloworm XS's from him and they are amazing lights- well made and very bright.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

I got back into the night scene last year after a decade off. I ended up just getting some night rider set ups for under $300 bucks from my lbs. flood on the handlebars and spot on the helmet. I do have multiple bikes and the night riders abiltiy to fit on many handlebars has been nice.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

*Gloworm X2 v3.1*

I have a box full of Chinese LEDs.

I bought a Gloworm X2v3.1 last week and am so impressed I ordered an XS from Jim today. As I mention in another post, it's like getting _Lasik_...

disclaimer: I'm 60 so a real light may not be such a "life changing" experience for you... 



Paochow said:


> Most of the newer LED's are fairly reliable and take hits that would knock out the bulb of an incandescent. The silicone strap on the magicshine should also help provide some cushion too. I'd recommend going through Action LED- Jim has been very helpful! I just picked up a pair of Gloworm XS's from him and they are amazing lights- well made and very bright.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

newking said:


> Ok so my old set of lights finally died. My head is spinning reading the forum on the new technology with lights. From what I can see the way to go is to get a LED light that is cordless (self contained).
> 
> I'm looking for a bar and helmet combo - wireless for up to 2 hour rides.
> 
> I know I should search the forum more but can somebody chime in what is working for them?


Hello! I have been running a Gemini Xera flashlight (around 700 real lumen). for about maybe a year or so as my only light on my commuter. If given the choice today I would have gotten something else. Its not a bad light, there is nothing bad with it. Its actually very good. But its a flashlight and the spot is tight. Also I feel 700 lumens and with that small spread it is the absolute minimum usable for commuting at between 20-24km/h. Just barely. Today was the first day this season I used it at night and I just wondered how I ever was satisfied with that little amount of light.

Intensity is good. But I would like 2 of that close side by side and 2 side by side further away kinda. That would be perfect.

Buy more than you think you need!!

The less light you have the slower you have to go. I would guess about 4-5000 lumens (spread out over several lights) or so would allow you to go 100% daytime speed.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

patski said:


> I have a box full of Chinese LEDs.





TiGeo said:


> Just remember that when you go the cheapie route, its a bit of a roulette game of what you will get (weatherproofness, type of connector, etc.).


My original Magicshine and triNewt were stolen along with my bike a couple of years ago. I've been collecting this mess since then, the triNewt you see needs a battery(the original reason I bought an 808E), $200 @ NR. Both 808 clones have died. the SSX2 works ok but don't dare to get it wet. I tossed two bad batteries and a NR Sol a couple of weeks ago when I pulled out the night riding gear. The SecurityIng's lens is cracked and the medium setting turns off the entire lamp until it's good and warm. The little one behind the 808 with Jim's beam spreader works fine, unfortunately its' a "halo" beam, kind of dark in the center where you need it most..... 

The standard POS battery cordura cases are worthless, easily ripped and if you waterproof the batteries (plastidip or wrap them with delicate silicon tape) they probably won't fit in the case...

I guess my point is "buy quality" that's been tested by the community. Ride On...











patski said:


> I bought a Gloworm X2v3.1 last week and am so impressed I ordered an XS from Jim today. As I mention in another post, it's like getting _Lasik_...


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## mongreluc (Aug 9, 2014)

+1 on the gloworm x2 and xs set up picked some up yesterday and had a bit of a play with them last night on the road they almost give a better light then my car when there on low and when up put them to max they are like daylight


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## PUZZLE (Jun 21, 2014)

i just bought a nightrider 750 that i really like
Amazon.com : NiteRider Lumina 750 Fast Charge LED Lithium Ion Headlight : Sports & Outdoors


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

"Quote Originally Posted by patski View Post
I bought a Gloworm X2v3.1 last week and am so impressed I ordered an XS from Jim today. As I mention in another post, it's like getting Lasik..."


Thats a serious set up! No shortcuts there!:thumbsup:


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Possibly an over reaction....



Gharddog03 said:


> Thats a serious set up! No shortcuts there!:thumbsup:





patski said:


> I bought a Gloworm X2v3.1 last week and am so impressed I ordered an XS from Jim today. As I mention in another post, it's like getting _Lasik_...


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

TiGeo said:


> Just remember that when you go the cheapie route, its a bit of a roulette game of what you will get (weatherproofness, type of connector, etc.).


Nice, while mounting my new XS last night I came across these plastidipped batteries and a MJ872 Knockoff, the 872 has 4 steps to high and then it stays there, only way to turn it off or change the setting is to unplug it... both batteries are marginal, but hey, carrying 2-3 extra packs is no problem if the price is attractive, right?











patski said:


> My original Magicshine and triNewt were stolen along with my bike a couple of years ago. I've been collecting this mess since then, the triNewt you see needs a battery(the original reason I bought an 808E), $200 @ NR. Both 808 clones have died. the SSX2 works ok but don't dare to get it wet. I tossed two bad batteries and a NR Sol a couple of weeks ago when I pulled out the night riding gear. The SecurityIng's lens is cracked and the medium setting turns off the entire lamp until it's good and warm. The little one behind the 808 with Jim's beam spreader works fine, unfortunately its' a "halo" beam, kind of dark in the center where you need it most.....
> 
> The standard POS battery cordura cases are worthless, easily ripped and if you waterproof the batteries (plastidip or wrap them with delicate silicon tape) they probably won't fit in the case...
> 
> ...


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