# Rohloff/Ogre



## rjcarlson49 (Apr 19, 2005)

Finally got my new bike! Pictures are here Ogre Album.

This is meant as a touring bike, both on the road and dirt, like the San Juan Huts or Great Divide. It was designed for maximum comfort and flexibility. I can hardly wait to get some real miles on it. So far, the comfort is a real success. The roads around here are harsh and bumpy, but the suspension and fat tires take of that! It will also work as a backup mountain bike. The tires may not be identifiable in the pics, they are Schwalbe Big Apples. I'd probably use something else for purely dirt riding.

I love the way the color came out. It's meant to be that greenish yellow safety color.

-Bob


----------



## bike for days (Nov 25, 2011)

So the Troll wasn't bright enough for ya eh? 

Awesome ride.


----------



## Wryknow (Mar 13, 2012)

Very nice. I doubt any hunters will mistake you for a deer on that bike!


----------



## rjcarlson49 (Apr 19, 2005)

I would'a been OK with the orange Troll, but the olive drab Ogre wasn't going to cut it.


----------



## bike for days (Nov 25, 2011)

rjcarlson49 said:


> I would'a been OK with the orange Troll, but the olive drab Ogre wasn't going to cut it.


I feel exact opposite, since I want my ride to be a little more stealth for camping. But yeah, I really dig your color choice. I read somewhere (although opinions abound of course) that saftey green/yellow is actually the most visible from a distance.


----------



## rjcarlson49 (Apr 19, 2005)

I'm much more of a CC tourer, so stealth wasn't the objective.


----------



## Scooterpiggy (Apr 9, 2012)

*Some spec's please*

G'day Bob,

Awesome bike! I'm very jealous!. Are you able to give me some pointers on how you put the bike together?
I'm considering doing something similar with either an Ogre or maybe even a Nomad, although I do want to stay with a 29er.
Are you able to advise what model Rohloff that is? CC OEM?
How did you source it? What size disc is it? 160mm?
Did you build the wheel yourself or the LBS?
Where did you source the spokes and what are they?
Forgive my ignorance, what do you call the bracket holding the hub in place/chain tension? And where did you get it from?
Thanks very much and I completely understand if you don't respond for a long time.
If I had your bike, I'd be out riding it, not typing away on a boring computer.

Cheers
Vince


----------



## rjcarlson49 (Apr 19, 2005)

CycleMonkey put the bike together for me. They (he really) built the wheels and sold me the parts including the Rohloff. I thought his prices were good. He also arranged for the frame to be painted. 

I'm not sure of the official designation, but the choices were disk, external mech and 9mm QR type axle. I believe that only a 160 mm disk is allowed on the Ogre. I use a 180 in the front after long experience with disks on my mtn bike, I think it's worth it, especially on a bike that is going to be carrying a load. Most of your braking comes from the front so that makes the best sense anyway. The BB7s feel great.

That bracket holding the rear in place is a Surly tugnut. I'm told only one is necessary, but the builder put two on. We'll see how that works.

I think the comfort level on this bike is going to be great. The roads here in Tucson resemble a mine field, but that's all absorbed by the FS.

Good luck with your build!

I went and found the specs for the wheel build and hub:
Speedhub 500/14 DB, OEM2, black anodized
160mm, 4-Bolt Avid G2 Rotor, 160mm, 4-Bolt Version for Rohloff
Shimano XT Front Hub, black, 36 hole
Black Velocity Cliff Hanger 700c Rim, Black, 1x32 hole, 1x36 hole
241mm Sapim Force Spoke 2.2/1.8/2.0 mm, Black, 241mm 32
262mm Sapim Force Spoke 2.2/1.8/2.0 mm, Black, 262mm 36
Black, 12mm Sapim Brass Nipple, Black


----------



## Scooterpiggy (Apr 9, 2012)

Thanks mate!


----------



## Scooterpiggy (Apr 9, 2012)

*A little more advice please*

G'day Bob,

How's that sweet bike going?:thumbsup:

I've given up on the Thorn idea as the Ogre has all I want and more. I've ordered an Ogre frame and am super excited about putting a bike together!  I tried to create my own thread so people can follow but the silly forum won't let me until I make 5 posts:madman:. (So you get to listen to my ravings for a little longer).

This will be the first my first bike build and I plan to have a go at building the wheels too. I've been doing a little more net searching to identify what bits I want on my dream bike. The bike will be used daily for off-road commutes and the occasional off road tour. It will include a Rohloff and a Dyno.

This leads me to seek your advice and from anyone else out there with horizontal drop outs and disc brakes. There are several reports out there of people having issues with the back wheel. The rear disc brake forces the axle rearwards, usually resulting in just the left side of the axle moving to the rear. Have you had any problems with this?

Some of the suggested solutions have been to install a quality QR like Shimano XT, or DT Swiss QR (many varied results), bolt on axles, or Chris King Fun Bolts.:skep:

I was considering doing front and rear disc brakes. Now I'm inclined to get front disc and only rim brakes on the rear to prevent this issue with the disc brake and horizontal drop out. 

Any thoughts and experiences appreciated. 

Thanks mate.
Vince.

PS. Sorry for all the , I just worked out how to do them.


----------



## rjcarlson49 (Apr 19, 2005)

I have 2 Surly Tugnuts. They position the rear axle pretty precisely and I don't think I have to worry about it moving. At the moment I have a Shimano XT skewer that is made for a 135 spacing mtb. It is barely long enough. I am thinking of getting one of the 145 mm skewers that are out there.

There are appears to be no problem with space in the rear for the disks. I practiced taking the rear wheel off last weekend and it is a little tricky. If you have a rear disk I think 2 Tugnuts are essential. I once thought that only 1 would be necessary, but with the disk I think you have to have both to make it easy to keep the disk aligned. I love the feel of the disks and would not want to go to rim brakes, even just in the rear.

Getting the rear wheel back in is a hassle. The tugnuts are loose and include a second loose washer, so you have about 6 parts to get threaded together before you can close the skewer. I need to figure out some way to improve the situation.

-Bob


----------



## Dalton (Jun 30, 2004)

Nice bike.... big fan of that color. If I were to have mine painted/powder coated, I would do something along those lines. Mine is a commuter. Props to you... very nice build.


----------



## manensky (Aug 22, 2011)

Scooterpiggy said:


> G'day Bob,
> 
> This leads me to seek your advice and from anyone else out there with horizontal drop outs and disc brakes. There are several reports out there of people having issues with the back wheel. The rear disc brake forces the axle rearwards, usually resulting in just the left side of the axle moving to the rear. Have you had any problems with this?


I am using Rohloff speedhub + disc brake with QR axle on my Surly 1x1, which has horizontal drop outs. I have never suffered of this left side movement by brake force. Only time, when I noticed that left side was slightly moved backwards, was after quite heavy hit to the rear wheel due failed bunny hop over fallen tree. Otherwise I haven't have any issues with this combination even tough I have abused my bike on rocky&root-paths a lot.
I use old cannondale's QR-axle and from drop out's steel I can see that it can get some grip, which is enough to resist brake forces from 160mm rotor in my use.

Anyhow I managed to move right side of axle forward by busting one surly tuggnut, when I one tree branch wandered between chain and the sprocket, when I was pressing pedals very hard. Result of this can be found easily with google with "busted surly tuggnut" search


----------



## akclimber49 (Sep 17, 2011)

Scooterpiggy said:


> G'day Bob,
> 
> How's that sweet bike going?:thumbsup:
> 
> ...


I have a pugsley,which has horizontal drop outs. I run a Speedhub also. I have a tugnut on the drive side only,I am using a salsa skewer, I just adjusted my chain tension for the first time since installing it in March. I have had NO issues with my rear wheel moving with this setup. I did a 136 mile tour last weekend trouble free.
I will say this though, once you have a Rohloff on one bike you will be wanting them on all your other bikes
I installed this my self,it was straight forward and pretty simple. Have fun!


----------



## rjcarlson49 (Apr 19, 2005)

*Update*

With the disk brakes, I find that 2 Surly Tugnuts are essential to getting the wheel on in a reasonable amount of time. If you are not used to using disks you may not be aware how finicky the adjustment can be. With the Tugnuts correctly adjusted you can put the wheel on and know it will work with the disk.

The Tugnuts make a standard skewer barely fit because of the extra thickness. I bought a 145mm DT-Swiss skewer and it seems to work much better than the standard Shimano XT skewer that was on it.

I had a chance to take the bike on a path that I had ridden on my road bike. I am happy to report that the heavy bike with 50 mm Schwalbe Big Apples and front suspension is nearly as fast as my 17 lb carbon road bike. The price for such drastically improved comfort is small. In addition it feels way more stable on descents.

Also, for water I bought a 100 oz Camelbak Unbottle and put it on the rear rack with an extended tube so I don't have to carry water on my back.


----------



## hunter006 (Jan 20, 2012)

rjcarlson49 said:


> With the disk brakes, I find that 2 Surly Tugnuts are essential to getting the wheel on in a reasonable amount of time. If you are not used to using disks you may not be aware how finicky the adjustment can be. With the Tugnuts correctly adjusted you can put the wheel on and know it will work with the disk.
> 
> The Tugnuts make a standard skewer barely fit because of the extra thickness. I bought a 145mm DT-Swiss skewer and it seems to work much better than the standard Shimano XT skewer that was on it.


Thank you for updating the thread. I had the exact same issue with the skewer I bought; I went online, found a longer one, but it was still barely long enough when running two Tuggnuts. Without it, I actually broke the skewer I was using under hard braking. Luckily, the hard braking was on a test run on the hill outside my apartment, so the walk back wasn't too bad. I figured the Tuggnuts were adding around 5mm each so a tandem, trailer or generic longer skewer would make the difference.

I'm currently running conventional gears but will be making the Rohloff switch reasonably soon too.


----------



## rjcarlson49 (Apr 19, 2005)

As an all-around tire I think it worked really well. We finished the Great Allegheny Passage and C&O Canal a few weeks ago. We had one rain day with some mud and wet. We also rode mostly pavement one day. The tires were never an issue which I think is what you want. These trails are gravelly and flat for the most part so climbing was entirely untested. They are basically slicks so if was expecting a lot of climbing of 10% grades and/or mud I think I would use another tire. For touring, I really like them so far.


----------



## Ginz (Jan 28, 2004)

Nice Troll!

Thanks all for the comments about the Tugnut setup. I was wondering if installing the rear wheel would be a hassle. Would love to see a photo of the procedure to install the rear wheel and exactly how tough it is to line up all the parts.

The Orge/Troll is such a good deal considering even the cheapest custom frame with rocker dropouts is far, far more money. Someday I will have to make that move because my current setup with Rohloff tensioner leads to more chain-dropping than I'd like.


----------



## modernpracticality (Sep 13, 2012)

your ogre is pretty much the coolest color I have ever seen! i want one just like it! what's the RAL # for the color?


----------



## rjcarlson49 (Apr 19, 2005)

modernpracticality said:


> your ogre is pretty much the coolest color I have ever seen! i want one just like it! what's the RAL # for the color?


Thanks!

I could not get a RAL number, but here's the exchange via email. I did ask the guy who was the "general contractor". He's Neil at CycleMonkey. I would happily work with him again and he gave me a good deal I thought, hundreds less than my LBS quoted me.

My original request was "RAL-1016, Sulphur Yellow. The idea is visibility. Can they do florescent colors? I'm looking for the safety color look, like they do for fire-engines and safety vests."

He then referred me to http://www.tiger-coatings.us/fileadmin/user_upload/USA/Special_Effect_Vol_5.pdf

My request was for "The closest looks like Tiger Drylac 59/20043, neon yellow."

He replied "They didn't have the 59/20043 color from Tiger, but they had something they said was very close from a different company."

And after I had the bike I asked about a RAL number. "Apparently the florescent colors do not have RAL codes. They spray a chrome powder on first followed by the florescent powder. The florescent powder came from Tiger Drylac."

So, that's what I know. I assume CycleMonkey could get another that way.

-Bob


----------



## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

Hi Bob, Love your Ogre. I cant tell from your pics what cranks you chose? 

I'm a big fan of Velocity rims and Brooks B17 saddles. I'm looking at a similar build but have so far only got my 36H Rohloff and my B17.

I ask about your crankset so I can go on to ask how you got your 54mm chainline sorted. Which bottom bracket? 

I'll be going for a dynamo hub build with disk brake as having gotten used to having a great Edelux headlamp powered by a Sondelux hub I could never go back to battery lights. My hub charges my lights and gps on my current bike and will charge my phone when I finally decide what to replace my 10 year old Nokia 5510 with. 

I think I'll be happy with the Surly green as I'm a stealth camper who uses a Macpac bivybag (green) and like to escape camp fees by camping wild.

I'm going to go with CX-Rays for spokes as my current bikes wheels were made up with them and I've had no issues.
How are you getting on with using the 145mm DT-Swiss skewer as I've read of the issues of length with the Ogres thick dropouts.
I didn't receive one with my Rohloff hub.
I'll be looking at big apples for some cush and going for Velocity Dyads I think for rims.
Thanks for any answers


----------



## rjcarlson49 (Apr 19, 2005)

*Crankset and BB*



rifraf said:


> Hi Bob, Love your Ogre. I cant tell from your pics what cranks you chose?
> 
> I ask about your crankset so I can go on to ask how you got your 54mm chainline sorted. Which bottom bracket?
> ...
> Thanks for any answers


Sorry I took so long to answer. I had to look it up so I put it aside [for too long].

The crank is Shimano Deore with a RaceFace SS/DH ring. I am pretty sure it is mounted as the big ring. The crankset includes the BB, though I am not sure whether the BB has a variable size or not. The chain line appears to be perfect.

You can ask the guy and Cycle Monkey and I'm sure he'll help you out. He built up my bike and did a good job. Cycle Monkey

Good Luck!!!


----------



## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

Thanks Bob
Appreciate the heads up


----------



## Scooterpiggy (Apr 9, 2012)

G'day Rifraf! 

And Bob! Thanks very much for your help! I finally made the Ogre rideable a few weeks ago.

Rifraf, it seems my bike may be similar to what you're after. I've got Velocity Chucker rims, 36H Rohloff, Son28 front hub (will throw in a Pitlock Skewer), and a Brooks 17.

I'm still doing a few adjustments. Today I put on a new small front chain ring of 34t. (Rohloff recently reduced the allowable ratios for their hubs) Had some issues with an inconsistent chain tension and Sheldon Brown sorted that out for me.

Any advice on the easiest way to post a pic of my bike for all to see?


----------



## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

Scooterpiggy said:


> G'day Rifraf!
> 
> And Bob! Thanks very much for your help! I finally made the Ogre rideable a few weeks ago.
> 
> ...


G'day Scooterpiggy,
I suggest you first resize them by first opening them in microsoft office picture manager and clicking the tab at the top "Picture" and then clicking "resize". A box on the left will open and I click "preferred width and height", then a drop down menu and pick "web-large (640x480px) and then "OK". When I close the box a message pops up asking "save?", I click "Yes" and then the pic is ready for adding to your photo host (Photobucket.com) in a size that wont be chopped when posting on here. 
Does that help?

Where did you source your frame?


----------



## Scooterpiggy (Apr 9, 2012)

Thank you for the advice. I've tried without success. Now trying with Flickr.

Frame from the LBS. Cycle City Fyshwick Canberra ACT.

They sourced 80% of components upon my request. They put the wheels together and I put the bike together.


----------



## Scooterpiggy (Apr 9, 2012)

Post 6.

Forgive me for hijacking this post. I couldn't upload a link or image as I need to have added 10 posts to this forum before I'm allowed to add the link or image. I'll try to be constructive.


----------



## Scooterpiggy (Apr 9, 2012)

Post 7

Best bike ever. I'm very happy with the Ogre frame. It has all the attachments for everything. I'll utilize them all except for the trailer attachment. I'm a little disappointed with the Surly head badge. It was a little loose. I stuck it back. I will probably add a custom head badge in due time.


----------



## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

Best price I could get here in Aus was around $800 whilst I think Jensonusa could deliver for around $600 ($535 plus P&P) so I'll probably go with them. I'm just trying to recover from xmas before I bite the bullet and grab a frame.
I think I'll get my Son28 disk via starbike as they were cheapest last time I bought a dynamo hub. I looking forward to having my first disk braked bike. I'm going for BB7's as the Ogre will be my new touring bike.
Jenson can also supply my Velocity Dyads and CX-Ray spokes for the build.
I got some Thorn cranks on ebay with a 38T ring but I'll be swapping that for a 34T to mate the Rohloff's 16.
I want a thomson seatpost but am unsure whether to get one with layback or just get a straight.


----------



## Scooterpiggy (Apr 9, 2012)

Post 8

I've replaced the great fork with a Rockshox fork. It's great to have the suspension and I need it. The Ogre front fork is amazing and I saddened not to be able to use it. I wish I could put in on my Koga road tourer! Sadly the Rockshox doesn't have any attachment points for a mud guard or forks. I've purchased a SKS guard that attaches to the hole in the head stem? and it seems to work well. I've also got a 'Tubus Swing' front rack which I'm yet to test out. It should be good to store the light weight items when touring, without having too much impact on the suspension capabilities.


----------



## Scooterpiggy (Apr 9, 2012)

Hi Rifraf,

I paid $830. I was happy to source the more expensive items from the LBS for ease of warranties etc. They didn't have any of it in stock, so I did pay a little extra, yet I'm happy with the peace of mind to be able to go the the LBS if I were to have any issues. Plus it's good to support the LBS for karma etc.


----------



## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

Aushiker from bicycles.net.au uses a Tubus Swing on his Giant and it seems to work well.
What height are you and what size frame did you go for. WarrenH from the same forum uses radiator hose clips to add water bottle holders to his shocks on his Anthem mountainbike. I plan to just stick with
the standard Ogre forks for now and hope the large tyres offer enough cush.


----------



## Scooterpiggy (Apr 9, 2012)

SON 28, is awesome! I've got a Shimano dyno on the Koga which is great as well. The Son has amazing bearings and a decent output. The resistance is not detectable while riding. When the bike is on the stand it is barely noticeable. On other blogs it is highly recommended.

I hooked the Son up to a Supernova E3 tripple front and rear. It took considerable time to install it for durability. It is the best! (I bought the lights a few months ago. I think Supernova has a new model out now) You can pick up the old model very cheap now. I commute all off road, all weather, day/night etc. Below 10km/hr, the lights are enough and compare with my old battery 1.0w x 2 head lights. Above 10km/hr and the power really kicks in! It easily turns night into day for 20m+ and that's a very conservative assessment! I fail to understand why folk use batteries to power lights.


----------



## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

My current bike which has 20 inch wheels has a sondelux hub and a Edelux headlight. It also has an E-werk which is a german current controller which charges my gps (Edge 800) and phone. I found touring and relying on campgrounds to charge batteries to be a (curseword) waste of time. Sitting in bathrooms or laundries is flaming terrible and you cant leave in case someone flogs your phone or what ever you've plugged into the wall. The E-werk was worth every penny to stop me having to do that.


----------



## Scooterpiggy (Apr 9, 2012)

Hi Rifraf,

I've now got 16t rear, 34t front. I tried 38t front for the first 200kms and it wasn't quite low enough for my needs. I expect the 34t to be perfect for the steep climbs!

Thanks for the tip of the hose clamps!

It's been fun and educational to build my own bike. If I had the time over again, I would seriously consider a Thorn. They are great value for money. My bike ended up costing more than I expected.

Disc brakes. I bought Hope M4 evo brakes for plenty of $. They are amazing! I'm able to pull up on dirt from 50+km/hr with only using the index finger to apply the brakes! I'm purely an amateur, yet I can find not fault with these brakes.

I'm 6' and 90kgs. I took note of Surly measurements and probably measured my current Haro 29er and Koga 28" several times before I finally committed to a 20" frame. I've got 175mm cranks. I'm still working out the height and width of the bars. Frame sizes vary dramatically. I suggest measuring your current bike and get help from your LBS if you are unsure. I went for a larger frame for clearance and comfort. If you wanted responsiveness and more agility, I'd go for a smaller frame. My bike was built for durability and comfort, not speed.

Seat post was Hope for adjustment capability and it is great. It's not in the pic. B17 is a must and I can rave on and on about them if you wish.

** I meant to say size 20 frame, not a 20" frame.**


----------



## Scooterpiggy (Apr 9, 2012)

Understood on the Ewerk. I'm still considering if it's worth the weight/cost for my needs. 

Very shinny Rohloff. Congrats my friend!


----------



## Scooterpiggy (Apr 9, 2012)

Lets see if this works?Ogre right side | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

The link finally worked! I've changed the front chain ring. I need to adjust the handle bar height and width. The seat and seat post is from my Koga. I've now got a Hope post and another B17 seat.

Computer. I used my old wireless Omega? which is useless when I have the lights turned on. I will get a pricely digital wireless computer, or go with a wired option. Any advice? I don't care for GPS or cadance. Just the standard options would suit my needs.


----------



## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

Scooterpiggy said:


> I'm 6' and 90kgs. I took note of Surly measurements and probably measured my current Haro 29er and Koga 28" several times before I finally committed to a 20" frame. I've got 175mm cranks. I'm still working out the height and width of the bars. Frame sizes vary dramatically. I suggest measuring your current bike and get help from your LBS if you are unsure. I went for a larger frame for clearance and comfort. If you wanted responsiveness and more agility, I'd go for a smaller frame. My bike was built for durability and comfort, not speed.
> 
> B17 is a must and I can rave on and on about them if you wish.


You'd be preaching to the choir with regards to the B17. I just picked up a B17 Special with the copper plated rails and rivets.

I'm 5"11' ish and think I'm in between the 18' and 20' size frames. Not sure what my inseam is as I'm yet to find a bike shop here in WA with the gadget and I was hoping not to have to buy a tape measure.

My current ride is a Moulton APB which is a one size fits all frame.
















Why I want an Ogre is that the Moulton cant carry enough water for Aussie conditions and although nimble enough by itself offroad, when I'm hauling the trailer (water) then off road is off the menu as the suspension seems to work against the small wheels. I rode it from Mudgee NSW to Adelaide and on to Perth but I went mainly via tarmac. I now want to expand my horizons and feel the Ogre is the bike for the job.


----------



## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

Your Ogre is looking great. I love that serious looking rack on the tail end. Is that a tubus? Is it a stainless version? Are you using just the one Tugnut? I'm a big fan of the Ergon grips as you can see from my pics.
How did you go for chainline?
I read the Karate Monkey threads and the concensus seemed to be for my height a size 18 was the go.
I cant find any shops locally that stock Surly's which is more the pity.
They dont mind ordering one in but they dont carry them.

I've been using a Carry Freedom Y frame trailer 
The Y-Frame bicycle trailer
and its great on road. I had a large plastic lidded tub on it and used it to carry amongst other things, my 2 x 10 liter Ortlieb water bags. My plans for the Ogre is to carry the water on the rear rack in 1 x10 liter and fit bigger bottles in the bidon mounts where they will go. I've seen a pic of a 1.25 on the underneath of the down tube. I'm currently unsure about inside the diamond of the frame. More on the forks.


----------



## Scooterpiggy (Apr 9, 2012)

An impressive rig sir!!

Reminds me of a Land Rover Bike Friday I saw touring around Tassie earlier last year.

I plan on doing Perth to Sydney later this year if I can get time off work. It will be a road only tour 

If you want a free tape measure, sign up for http://www.measureup.gov.au.

I'd always go for the large frame size. It gives extra clearance between ground and pedals, pedals and front tyre, seat and handle bar etc. Yes it does make it top heavy. Raising centre of gravity etc. I think it's worth it. My stem is on an angle, not sure what?, if it was a straight stem, it would be 80mm from the frame. The base of my seat is about 180mm from the frame. I would be comfortable even if I went for a larger frame. I do like a full extended pedal stroke. I'd suggest a size 20" for yourself.

Yep, Tubus Comos? on the rear. 30 year warranty! I'm happy to carry the weight to have the durability. I've broken cheaper (Top Peak) racks previously.

Tuggnuts on both sides. Purely for bling factor. It does make it easier to adjust chain tension. And the ability to crack a stubby if required.

The Ergo grips are great, although a little hot at times. Definitely the most comfy grips I've used. And the only ones that are made to suit Rohloff (that I've seen).

Sizing. Go to the LBS and test ride 29ers and measure yaself against them.

I had no issues with the chain line. I used standard spacers. I have a Chris King BB and Race Face cranks with Surly chain ring. As I posted earlier, I had issues with inconsistent chain tension. This was due to an un-centered chain ring. Sheldon Brown has detailed info on how to fix. I stressed big time. I thought my BB was screwed. After reading SB, it was fixed within 5mins. (Phew!) I don't use a chain tensioner.


----------



## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

Scooterpiggy said:


> An impressive rig sir!!
> 
> Reminds me of a Land Rover Bike Friday I saw touring around Tassie earlier last year.
> 
> ...


I'll check out that site.
The tour between Perth and Sydney is great. I went from Mudgee to Wellington to Parkes to Condobolin to Lake Cagellico to Hillside to Hay which were in flood early in 2012. I had a blast. Came off at Mildurah and fractured a couple of ribs so took a detour to Adelaide and rested up for a month and then on to Perth.

Actually my model Moulton is called a Landrover. Mines approx 17/18 years old now and well overdue for a refurb which is why I'm keen to crack on and get my new Ogre frame.


----------



## Scooterpiggy (Apr 9, 2012)

Thanks for the boost of confidence on my 'maybe' next tour. Busting a couple ribs would see me on a plane straight home!

17 years from a bike, well done. Keep it for your grand kids! Get an Ogre. Just because it's called an Ogre! I put a couple more pics of the rear end of my Ogre on Flickr.

Flickr: Angry Ogre's Photostream


----------



## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

I will get the Ogre. Xmas has set me back a bit. I found on my tour that my camping gear was a bit old.
My bivy bag leaked and my sleeping bag (Macpac 4 season down) was too hot for Aussie summers.
I'd bought the four season when I spent a few years in NZ So just before Xmas I bought a new Macpac Minaret tent and Macpac Cocoon (bivybag). A Macpac Express 400xl down sleeping bag (half the weight of my other one) and a down jacket for cold mornings/evening on tour. I'm hoping I'm now kitted out with regards gear and can now concentrate on getting a new bike set up how I want it.

Your extra pics look great. Bet that chain doesnt stay that clean for long.
In some ways I wish I'd bought the threaded axle Rohloff but too late for regrets and I've got the CC version with the QR.
On the off chance I ever want to use it in another frame I picked up off ebay a set up including a long torque arm. Just in case I decided I wanted to stick it into the Moulton.
My Rohloff like yours has the external mech and disk brake. I still have to buy a disk and also a OEM2 plate for the Ogre as mine came with the plain OEM plate.
I do have some Bob trailer mounts to fill those large holes in the dropouts from when I had a Bob. A single wheel trailer is where its at for off road use but for on road a dual wheel is great.


----------



## hunter006 (Jan 20, 2012)

Something to consider when setting everything up is ease of removal of the wheel. I'm running mine with the chain tensioner at the moment but without bulletproof tires.

Process with chain tensioner:

Slide chain off chainring on to BB shell, slide wheel back out of fork end. Wrestle with chain a little to get it off the hub.

Process without chain tensioner:

Loosen OEM2 bolt in frame.
Loosen disk brake mounting bolts on frame.
Loosen QR Skewers or axle bolts.
Slide everything forward so chain tension drops a little.
Rest chain on BB shell.

As you can see, the chain tensioner makes things a little easier with removing the rear wheel. So for commuting or running less puncture resistant tires, I recommend leaving the chain tensioner ON, as it will save you time. It's also handy if you're still mucking around with the chainrings and cogs as you'll only have to cut the chain once, let the tensioner do the tensioning work for you while you sort out your ratios, then cut it shorter and remove the tensioner once you've got it right. For touring, you'd probably run heavier duty tires or not be as concerned with taking a little longer to get the wheel off the bike. The only downside I've found is in sub-freezing temperatures the chain tensioner stops working as well.

Also, please tell me I'm not the only one that forgets to undo the External gear mech from the Rohloff whenever I try to remove the rear wheel. I think I remember to undo it about 10% of the time. The rest of the time I just wonder why it's not sliding out.

The tuggnut on the non-drive side does make sense for bling factor, but not for chain tension. The OEM2 plate will hold it in place just fine. Not as easy as the chain tensioner though to get everything nicely lined up. I reckon my ideal touring setup would be to run with the tensioner until the tensioner carks it, then run it without the tensioner, just for convenience.

FWIW, there's a Surly forum that may offer more help for Ogre/Rohloff pairings.


----------



## rjcarlson49 (Apr 19, 2005)

Wow, I do not do anything so complicated. 
1. With finger on chain near crank, derail the chain while moving the pedal forward
2. Remove the external mech. (yes, I forget this too)
3. Loosen skewer
4. Slide the wheel out while taking care to catch all the fiddly little tugnut parts.

I was dismayed to realize that I could not use a normal rear fender because of the wheel removal issue. I know I could remove the fender first, but that is just too much trouble. I'll just mount something to the underside of the rack for that.


----------



## rjcarlson49 (Apr 19, 2005)

hunter006 said:


> The tuggnut on the non-drive side does make sense for bling factor, but not for chain tension. The OEM2 plate will hold it in place just fine. Not as easy as the chain tensioner though to get everything nicely lined up.


Interesting point about using the OEM2 plate to position the left side of the wheel. I'll have to experiment with that. Using only one tugnut would be a lot easier.


----------



## hunter006 (Jan 20, 2012)

rjcarlson49 said:


> Interesting point about using the OEM2 plate to position the left side of the wheel. I'll have to experiment with that. Using only one tugnut would be a lot easier.


Yeah, but it doesn't look as cool!

I notice you still have the threadlocker on the tuggnut... I always hated getting them brand new because of the threadlocker.

Also, RE: derailing the chain, apparently I run my chains much tighter, as I've never been able to derail them as easily as that...


----------



## bedargvid (Aug 12, 2012)

Sick build. I love everything about this bike.


----------



## 2flit (Feb 11, 2013)

I was dismayed to realize that I could not use a normal rear fender because of the wheel removal issue. I know I could remove the fender first, but that is just too much trouble. I'll just mount something to the underside of the rack for that.[/QUOTE]

I was wondering what you thought about using the Ogre with fenders if you were to use the Tug Nuts with the wheel adjusted as far back in the frame as possible and were to deflate the tire? Would this improve the situation you described? Could you easily remove the wheel with full fenders and normal clearances on the fender? I would be setting the bike up with rim brakes and the Rohloff speed hub. If the tension adjustment became an issue getting the axle at this location then>>>A bushnell eccentric could possibly be added using the shims that R and E Cycles manufactures in Seattle, WA


----------



## rjcarlson49 (Apr 19, 2005)

> I was wondering what you thought about using the Ogre with fenders if you were to use the Tug Nuts with the wheel adjusted as far back in the frame as possible and were to deflate the tire? Would this improve the situation you described? Could you easily remove the wheel with full fenders and normal clearances on the fender? ...


Such a setup might make it a slight bit easier to remove the wheel with a fender in place. However, I would never give up my disk brakes. Also having to deflate the tire potentially creates a lot more work. I'd prefer to give up some fender function over this solution.


----------



## hunter006 (Jan 20, 2012)

rjcarlson49 said:


> Such a setup might make it a slight bit easier to remove the wheel with a fender in place. However, I would never give up my disk brakes. Also having to deflate the tire potentially creates a lot more work. I'd prefer to give up some fender function over this solution.


So the question was, can you remove the wheel if you were to position it further back?

I had a quick chat to my mechanic, and we adjusted how the fenders sat on the bolts, plus where the struts were positioned, and managed to remove the wheel *without *deflating it if we extended the fenders a little bit further back. Mega bonus for me because that means my life is much simpler.

The tires mounted at the time were 29x2.0" Schwalbe Marathon Supreme's, on DT Swiss XM490 rims.

Regarding deflating the tire, 9 times out of 10 so far I've removed the rear wheel to 1) do something that involves removing the tire completely or 2) fix a flat. So I think that's not so bad.


----------



## rjcarlson49 (Apr 19, 2005)

hunter006 said:


> So the question was, can you remove the wheel if you were to position it further back?
> ...


Giving this a little more thought. The earlier suggestion was to position the wheel far back in the slot by extending the Tugnuts. I doubt that is necessary. Once you take off the QR axle, the Tugnuts can be removed. Then the wheel is loose in the horizontal dropouts. You need to position the fender so that it clears the wheel plus tire when the axle is just past the end of the dropout. The wheel then drops down and out and vice versa.


----------



## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

Just ordered my frame today. Am I correct understanding what you've said? When setting up the rear fenders position, leave enough gap between it and the inflated rear wheel for easy removal of said wheel inflated or otherwise.


----------



## hunter006 (Jan 20, 2012)

rifraf said:


> Just ordered my frame today. Am I correct understanding what you've said? When setting up the rear fenders position, leave enough gap between it and the inflated rear wheel for easy removal of said wheel inflated or otherwise.


Yeah, basically when setting up the fenders, don't cut the strut arms until you can remove and reinstall the wheel with the tire fully inflated, and leave a little more of a gap towards the back than normal.


----------



## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

OK! Thanks for the tip. I ordered the frame - A 20" in black with some Velocity Dyad rims in Silver. Soon as it arrives I'll order my Son28 disk from Starbike and some CX-Rays for the wheelbuild. I've since grabbed a straight Thomson masterpiece seatpost to go with my B17 Special. Frame ordered on the 14th Feb and last tracked on 16th as it left the States (San Bernadino). Now its just a waiting game. Just hoping like hell shortening the cockpit via the straight post, short railed B17 and getting a 50mm stem will keep me from being too stretched out on the 20". Seen pics of bikes with riders claiming to have similar or same dimensions as my 5" 11' and 34' inseam and the seatpost height on the 20' looks about where I'd like it.

I've picked up a tugnut and disk from Wiggle with a couple of bottle cages.
Still got to get brakes, BB, Bars/stem (I'm thinking Jeff Jones but not sure if Rohloff shifter will work with the large diameter bars), racks (Tubus Cosmo and I think Duo), Big Apples.

Any tips for chain choice?


----------



## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

What speed chain was necessary for the Ogre/Rohloff? Was a single chain enough links?
I ask as my Moulton has such long chainstays that I need to use one and a quarter chains each time. I'm not planning a chain tensioner at this stage.
My frame has hit Aussie shores now (Melbourne) and needs to make its way to Western Australia which I'm anticipating about a week more to go.


----------



## rjcarlson49 (Apr 19, 2005)

I realize I don't actually know because I haven't had to change it yet. However, with no derailleur and no tensioner I would be REALLY surprised if one chain isn't enough.


----------



## hunter006 (Jan 20, 2012)

rifraf said:


> What speed chain was necessary for the Ogre/Rohloff? Was a single chain enough links?
> I ask as my Moulton has such long chainstays that I need to use one and a quarter chains each time. I'm not planning a chain tensioner at this stage.
> My frame has hit Aussie shores now (Melbourne) and needs to make its way to Western Australia which I'm anticipating about a week more to go.


I use a regular, run of the mill 8sp chain. KMC Z50/Z51 is usually what I go for; they're cheap and last a long time. Some people have had bad experiences with KMC chains. I have not. It'll be less than a single chain, probably in the vicinity of 95'ish links (most standard chains come with over 100 links, usually around 110 links).

As it is, running the full derailleur and stock triple that comes with the Ogre, I still had to remove about 4 links from a full chain to make it the right length.


----------



## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

Hi hunter006,
thanks heaps! Yeah I need about 122 links for the Moulton so wanted to ask.
Appreciate you clearing that up. My Dyad rims arrived today but as yet no sign of my Ogre frame from the same Jenson order. Hopefully tomorrow I guess though I was surprised they didnt arrive together. Good that I only need the one eight speed chain as the expenses have been emptying me out this week and still a few things to get.
Bars, headset and stem, as well as cables, grips and tubes. Bound to be some other small things I've forgotten as well.


----------



## hunter006 (Jan 20, 2012)

I thought about your question, and realized there's a "not very accurate but accurate enough" way to determine approximately the number of links needed. I have a 18" frame, and did some quick measurements on the cogs and chain rings, nothing super accurate but should be good for ballpark figures.

13" around the chain ring, 3" around the cog and 18.5" from the chain ring to the cog. So 13+3+(18.5*2) = 53". Chains are rated at 11/128" x *1/2"*, the latter number being important in that for every inch of chain, there's one complete link (inner + outer plates). So this implies there are 53 complete links, or 106 smaller links in a Surly Ogre chain. Still less than a single chain, and much fewer links than your Moulton.


----------



## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

hunter006 said:


> I thought about your question


Cheers for that. Still no sign of frame but its a long weekend so probably not that surprising. It cleared customs on the 22 of last month so I'm feeling a little frustrated currently. I won on ebay a Titec j-bar ($22 delivered),which I'm told is very similar to a Jeff Jones handle bar with regards to dimensions of angle and sweep. Hopefully this will give me an idea of if I'll get on with the Jones loop bar before I part with the large (for me) purchase price. How are you getting on with your butterfly bars? They are my second choice if it turns out I dont get on with the J Jones version.

Hopefully no issue with the Rohloff grip shifter and that bar. I know there isnt with the 
J Jones version.


----------



## hunter006 (Jan 20, 2012)

rifraf said:


> How are you getting on with your butterfly bars?


No problems here. I regularly ride 100k rides on them (as in, 50k each way to work, and this weekend and last I did 100k hilly rides on them). They were cheaper than the Jones bars, also narrower (I personally would get the full loop bars) which was the main reason for why I selected them. I like them enough that I'd buy them again if I had to do it all over again.


----------



## MacB (May 13, 2011)

If you're wanting to calculate the length of chain etc then this site is very useful:-

http://eehouse.org/fixin/index.php

I use the HTML form option from the left hand menu then out it min/max chainring and rear cog options. For the Karate Monkey, and I believe the Ogre as well, the chainstay is 431mm at shortest - to give you an idea of what I mean a Rohloff run with the old lower limit of 38x16 requires 47 links for 423.11mm, 47.5 links for 429.5mm, 48 links for 435.88mm, 48.5 links for 442.26mm and 49 links for 448.64mm.

I actually made myself a table of all the various combos I'm interested in and the chainstay length per chain length required. What I like to make sure of is that I avoid having to use a half link and that a new chain leaves me with plenty of adjustment range....so not right back or right forward.

Re mudguard fitting, I tried a Rohloff on a KM and some mudguards positioned well back. I could still remove the wheel with a 700x45 tyre but it did mean the mudguard was a long way off the tire. It was only an experiment so the guard was an old MTB one I had lying around, it might be better with a 29er specific guard.

However I found the faff of rear wheel removal/alignment put me off. One of the rohloff attractions for me is the QR. I also find the interaction between track ends and disc brakes to be an irritant, but then I fettle a lot and swap and change. Across the family we now have 2 frames with Paragon Rockers, a Salsa el M with Alternators and will shortly have another frame with Paragons and one with Bushnell EBB. We still have two KMs but one of those will be going as it will be replaced by one of the Paragon equipped frames.

The dropout faff was enough that our two KMs are the only bikes we have with derailleurs and I use the Monkey nuts to ease wheel removal and reposition. Across the other bikes we have 3 rohloffs, 2 alfines and an I-9.

I genuinely don't understand, especially as they are owned by the same company, why Surly haven't adopted the Alternator dropout. Even if it had to be beefed up in some way, though it's deemed strong enough for 29ers. As per the Paragon system you can then run inserts to suit.


----------



## rifraf (Dec 22, 2012)

Thanks MacB,
I'm slowly absorbing all the info of your post.
Thanks for the contribution - very informative.


----------

