# Spawn Raiju 20 vs. Orbea MX20 vs. Early Rider Belter Trail 3 v. Norco Storm 2.1



## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

I'm looking for a bike for my 5 year old daughter tuning 6 this September. She's very short for her age; she's in the 10th percentile for height, she's only 3'5" (41 inches) tall and has a 18" cycling inseam. (crotch to floor- not crotch to pant leg) She's on a Hotrock 16 which still fits fine, but with its singlespeed and coaster brake, she just can't keep up with her 8 and 10 year old brothers on the trails which is a frustrating situation.

The Orbea MX 20 Team Disc seems like the undisputed bang for the buck ($499); 8 speed Shimano Altus trigger shifter drivetrain (34t chainring, 11-34 cassette), Shimano hydraulic discs, tubeless ready rims. But the standover is 533mm (21") so she may not be able to ride it right away. It also comes only in a very non-girly black/orange color scheme, which is a big negative since she's way into purple and pink. Also her older brothers would ride/thrash this bike whereas they would not be caught dead on a pink or purple bike. Anyone know the weight on this bike? 








The https://spawncycles.com/raiju-20"]Spawn Raiju 20 is not as good of a value as the Orbea - it costs $100 more but downgrades to a 7 speed drivetrain with less range (32t chainring, 12-28 cassette) and mechanical discs. Its claimed weight of "a touch under 21 lbs." They don't publish standover height, but they say the minimum inseam is 19" and it's unclear if they mean cycling inseam or pants inseam but certainly it's lower than the Orbea. But it comes in fuschia which is a big plus.








The Early Rider Belter 20 Trail 3 at $607 is the lightweight king at 18.6 lbs. Standover is 570mm (22.44") so she would probably need a growth spurt before she could even swing a leg over it. Great component spec though, Ritchey cockpit, Avid mechanical discs. The raw silver color is not as boyish as the Orbea color scheme but still not pink. My biggest concern with this bike is the SRAM i-Motion 3 Speed Rear Hub - does it have a granny climbing gear equivalent to the 7-8 speed drivetrains? 








The Norco Storm 2.1 is the lowest cost option at $429. It also has the lowest standover of 455mm (17.91"), so it's the only one I could be sure she could ride right away. (On the flip side she'd outgrow it the fastest.) It has the absolute worst component spec of the group (6 speed Shimano Tourney revoshift 14-28 [unknown chainring tooth count], Tektro mechanical brakes, and Suntour coil spring fork - rigid is a much better choice for 20" bikes IMHO) No published weight, but this bike must be a pig compared to the others because of the components and suspension fork. She'd be all over the pink paintjob though. 








Any thoughts on these, or other candidates?


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## aajg (Dec 28, 2015)

Check out frog bikes. They make a small and large framed 20" similar to the UK based islabikes. We got a Frog 52 for our tall 5 year old...it's an amazing bike. Performing just as nice as the Spawn Savage 1 that my son is riding. And it's lighter than the Spawn, likely due to no disc brakes.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

zuuds said:


> I'm looking for a bike for my 5 year old daughter tuning 6 this September. She's very short for her age; she's in the 10th percentile for height, she's only 3'5" (41 inches) tall and has a 18" cycling inseam. (crotch to floor- not crotch to pant leg) She's on a Hotrock 16 which still fits fine, but with its singlespeed and coaster brake, she just can't keep up with her 8 and 10 year old brothers on the trails which is a frustrating situation.
> 
> The Orbea MX 20 Team Disc seems like the undisputed bang for the buck ($499); 8 speed Shimano Altus trigger shifter drivetrain (34t chainring, 11-34 cassette), Shimano hydraulic discs, tubeless ready rims. But the standover is 533mm (21") so she may not be able to ride it right away. It also comes only in a very non-girly black/orange color scheme, which is a big negative since she's way into purple and pink. Also her older brothers would ride/thrash this bike whereas they would not be caught dead on a pink or purple bike. Anyone know the weight on this bike?
> View attachment 1144339
> ...


I bought the MX24 Team Disc for my son, and I'd say based on the price of the bike, and how well sorted it is out of the box, I'd go for the MX20...hands down. It is a solid build that is respectable in weight out of the box, but can be lightened pretty easily without too much cost. That said, all of the components and geo make for a really great bike that in my experience is well worth the under 600 price tag and'll ride just fine without the upgrades. My son loves his 24. Had the 20 been available when I bought/customized his Zaskar 20, I'd have gone for it instead.

The MX20 and 24 Team Disc's are total sleeper deals. The 24 was hard to get your hands on, as they only brought a handful into the US. I think the one that I scored was 'the last' one for sale. Not sure if this is the case for the 20, but I'd jump on it sooner than later.

Hope this helps, and feel free to ask any questions you may have about upgrades if you end up getting it.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Couple addition al comments now that I actually read your post thoroughly, rather than the title and a skim...

I would not worry much about the standover issue. Set the seat down low enough that getting a leg over isn't too much trouble and teach her to get going by pushing off on the high crank arm while the other foot is on the ground.

Change the derailleur housing to pink or purple if that is super important. Universal Sport Shift Kit | Jagwire

Get a pair of Redline's Monster pedals. I think they may come in purple. Plus they are the lightest resin/sealed pedals out there. My son is running them in blue. Totally stoked on em. https://www.danscomp.com/products/4...Pedals.html?&gclid=COObko6_6dQCFcmFswodBMwETA

Get a Wren Stem in 40mm or 50mm. Super light (ridiculously light) cheap, and solid. Total sleeper stems. Wren Super Lightweight Alloy Stems | Wren Sports

Peel the decals off the wheels and make some custom ones out of electrical tape.

Get some ESI Racers Edge Silicone grips in purple or pink. Super comfy. Light. Racer's Edge - Handlebar Grips, Bike Handlebar Grips

Oh, last but not least, get a narrow wide chainring in 30t. Purple. Lose the bash guard. 
It's like 5mm thick and unnecessary. Race Face Single Narrow Wide Chainring > Components > Drivetrain > Chainrings | Jenson USA

Bike will be sick!! Do it, do it!


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Oh, the weight out of the box, ready to ride on my sons MX24 TD was 24.5 lbs. It was easily brought to 21 lbs. It is now back up to 22 with the addition of a fork. I'll have it a 20 when I lace up new wheels. 

Ask DickyT ( I think his username) about the weight on the 20. He has a thread about the MX20 TD in here, not sure if he mentioned the weight though. I'm sure he'd weigh it for you though if not.


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## Crashtestdummee (Sep 14, 2015)

Get the Orbea. If color is a concern take it over to one of those guys that wrap cars in vinyl. They do a vinyl wrap in pike, purple or any color or design for probably super cheap. 

Also your daughter will not be able to ride any 20 inch bike. She's to small still. My daughter is the same size and I have tried her on every 20 inch bike we find and they are all way to big. You have another year or more before she will fit a 20 inch bike.


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## djork (Nov 8, 2004)

Wow, I think the Orbea 24 MX is the bike I want to get for my 10-year-old nephew. I had been thinking about getting a Specialized Riprock or Hotrock XC disc to replace his 20 Hotrock, which replaced a 16 Hotrock, and which replaced 12 Hotrock. Didn't know there were so many other cool options for kids bikes these days. I've always thought Specialized made the coolest bikes for kids. That Orbea seems to be better spec'd than the Riprock and way cheaper. Gonna call Jenson to see if they can get one since they carry Orbea bikes.

Sent from my C6916 using Tapatalk


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

jochribs said:


> Couple addition al comments now that I actually read your post thoroughly, rather than the title and a skim...
> 
> I would not worry much about the standover issue. Set the seat down low enough that getting a leg over isn't too much trouble and teach her to get going by pushing off on the high crank arm while the other foot is on the ground.
> 
> ...


I had typed VERY similar ... then didn't finish 

My 7yr old boy rides a girls white and pink frame... the "pink" is called "light red" and the cables, stem, chainring, bolts etc. etc. are all deep red...

Last week I had to mess with the cables (I have 5m of Jagwire red outer and was just changing due to our climate) and snipped the last red cable crimp off and replaced with a silver one. Took him 30 secs to spot the swap...


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## Rascal Rides (Jan 27, 2015)

I think you are spot on with the MX20--excellent bang for the buck. If you still want to do more research, I've compiled a list of 20" mountain bikes with specs here: The 5 Best 20" Mountain Bikes for Kids - Rascal Rides


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

Thanks guys for the input. I pulled the trigger on the Orbea, I also ordered some purple ODI Ruffian grips and purple derailleur housing. I'm going to swap on a 35mm stem to shorten up the reach. Hopefully the standover won't be an issue, but if it is, it won't be for long because she's growing like a weed right now. 

I'll see how she does with the 34T stock chainring, but good suggestion on the 30T narrow-wide chainring. It's likely that the crankset is a standard 104bcd. Usually N-W chainrings are advertised as 9-10-11 speed compatible; would there be any issues with running one with an 8 speed chain?


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## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

Good choice on the Orbea, it is the best bang for the buck for sure. My son is 6 and small for his age, 19 inch inseam crotch to ground. I taught him to hold the brakes, throw a leg over, get one foot on the ground, one on a pedal and go!

His bike weighs 21lbs and he has no issues with the weight and he is pickin it up off the ground a lot... "eyes forward not down" I say like a broken record out on the trails. If you have any other questions about it let me know, I'll be happy to answer if able.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

zuuds said:


> Thanks guys for the input. I pulled the trigger on the Orbea, I also ordered some purple ODI Ruffian grips and purple derailleur housing. I'm going to swap on a 35mm stem to shorten up the reach. Hopefully the standover won't be an issue, but if it is, it won't be for long because she's growing like a weed right now.


You might find the grips too long..(unused bar so they can change gear).. I cut down some Giant Lock-on Grips for his trail bike (as they only had lock on on the inside) to 100mm and that is still big for my kid. (as in he still has lots of spare room but he at least doesn't have an extra 60mm of unusable bar)
I think we judge gaps essentially where our hands are but this only became really noticeable when he got the full suss bike with much wider bars.... but looking back it was probably there on his XC bike but as his bars were still way shorter he had less tree strikes ... it's just only more noticeable and now I think back he always had tree strikes following another kid rather than me...

Just a recent "learning" ... YMMV etc.

I'll see how she does with the 34T stock chainring, but good suggestion on the 30T narrow-wide chainring. It's likely that the crankset is a standard 104bcd. Usually N-W chainrings are advertised as 9-10-11 speed compatible; would there be any issues with running one with an 8 speed chain?[/QUOTE]


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

Good point. I actually have some ODI gripshift length grips in the spare parts bin, so if the regular ones are too long, I could use those. Or I could pick up a pair of the silicone ESI grips you linked to and cut them down.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

zuuds said:


> Good point. I actually have some ODI gripshift length grips in the spare parts bin, so if the regular ones are too long, I could use those. Or I could pick up a pair of the silicone ESI grips you linked to and cut them down.


This is 100 vs 130 and on way longer bars (just under 2') on my 7yr olds full suss. I did find some lock on 100mm I'm planning to buy if I can find them again (and do his XC bike as well) but I was changing bars and these grips were easy to cut and in the spares bin. (Just used a sharp knife)

it doesnt sound sound much but as you can see it puts the brakes/shifter much closer


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

zuuds said:


> Good point. I actually have some ODI gripshift length grips in the spare parts bin, so if the regular ones are too long, I could use those. Or I could pick up a pair of the silicone ESI grips you linked to and cut them down.


That was me...

I'd give a strong nod to the ESI grips. My son loves them. Super comfortable. Plus again, per your older siblings concerns...purple, LOL! I put the Chunky's on first, but then switched to the Racers Edge ones since they are a little thinner and fit his hands better. Plus...they're just 50 grams!

Not sure anyone confirmed for you about the bolt circle of the stock cranks yet, but yes, they are 104. The NW 30 tooth rings will fit fine. Run a 9 speed chain on the 8 speed set up. It will work without a hitch.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

The box showed up today, I have not put the bike together yet, but I am super impressed with the quality. Everything from the frame tubing, seapost, wheelset, etc. is light years ahead of big brands such as the Specialized Hotrock. And it has a cassette freewheel, not a thread-on freehub, so there is an easy future upgrade path to 8-9-10 speed.

The only bummer is that the supplied crankset is not a 4-bolt 104bcd as shown in the stock website photo - it is a 5 bolt 110bcd crankset. As far as I know, the only narrow-wide chainrings on the market with that bolt pattern are for road/cx bikes, and the smallest tooth count I've seen on those is 34T. (same as stock size).


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

zuuds said:


> The box showed up today, I have not put the bike together yet, but I am super impressed with the quality. Everything from the frame tubing, seapost, wheelset, etc. is light years ahead of big brands such as the Specialized Hotrock. And it has a cassette freewheel, not a thread-on freehub, so there is an easy future upgrade path to 8-9-10 speed.
> 
> The only bummer is that the supplied crankset is not a 4-bolt 104bcd as shown in the stock website photo - it is a 5 bolt 110bcd crankset. As far as I know, the only narrow-wide chainrings on the market with that bolt pattern are for road/cx bikes, and the smallest tooth count I've seen on those is 34T. (same as stock size).


Oh no! That's a bummer but I think I can help you there. I swapped out the cranks on my sons 24 and have the 104 cranks and bb. They're 152 long, and good candidates for shortening. Yours if you want em. We're getting ready to move and it would be one less thing that I need to worry about packing.

Being able to put the 30t on there makes such a huge difference for their riding.

Totally agree on the quality and all. The geometry on these bikes is just heads above most others as far as short chain stays, top tube length, angles etc. They're good middle of the road geo for XC and haven't been bitten by the PacNW bug with nose bleed high, super slack front ends. Plus, they are actually made in Portugal...atleast the 24 was in my experience. Thought that was pretty cool.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

Here's the first spin! The bike is a bit too big, but she can barely stand over on tiptoes. Even after swapping out the 70mm stock stem for a 35mm stem, she's stretched out on it, but a few months of growth should resolve the fit issues. Even with the brake lever reach dialed all the way in, it's a long reach for her fingers, so the next order of business is to swap out the 32mm thick stock grips for the short ODI Ruffians, which are about 29mm thick.

Jochribs, thanks for your generous offer, I'll take you up on it and PM you. She was struggling up the neighborhood hills with the 34T.


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## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

She looks happy, black with orange and all! My son has the exact same fitment issues, but time fixes that, and it means they will be able to be in the bike for a good while.


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

3rd ride out, and she got a flat tire (ran over some goatheads). When I went to change the tube, I was pleasantly surprised to see that the rim has tubeless tape installed. I just ordered some Stan's Schrader tubeless valves, and I'm going to give tubeless a go...


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Hey, the regular (presta) Stans tubeless valves fit too if you have any on hand.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

If you can get your hands on some, grab a set of the Small Block Eights with foldable beads. It's the one thing that I wish Orbea had specced on these 20's and 24's but I'm not complaining. They should set up tubeless quite a bit easier and run better burping wise at the low pressures that your daughter can run. My son was running those tires at about 12.5 psi and they worked great in varying conditions (rocky, rooty, hardpack, somewhat loose)


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## agge (Jun 19, 2017)

Got the Orbea for my son(4.5y) last week, he also have problems climbing steep hills with the 34t chainring. 
I am looking at changing crankset to the trek or spawn 32t.
Anyone with experience from these?
https://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/comp...0/20-kids-cranks-p17701#tab-s14852753725494-1
https://spawncycles.com/spawn-cycles-alloy-cranks-127


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Out of the two you posted, I'd say go with the Spawn's. Another good option is Trailcraft Cycles, and Ginger is as cool as they come. 140mm might be a little long at the moment though. Trailcraft Cycles

Another option is to get these, shorten them, add the narrow wide chainring of your liking (Trailcraft, Raceface, Wolf etc. and a 9 speed chain and your set:

Shimano Acera M361 Square Crankset > Components > Drivetrain > Cranksets | Jenson USA


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

another DIY option:

Shimano FC-M4000 9-SPEED Crankset > Components > Drivetrain > Cranksets | Jenson USA

Would need an Octalink BB though. Not sure what sort of old parts bin you have, if any.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Zuuds, get a narrow-wide 30 on there yet?


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

jochribs said:


> Zuuds, get a narrow-wide 30 on there yet?


Yes- thanks again for hooking me up with those cranks! However I did not end up shortening them for the Orbea. There are indentations cast in the backside of the crank arms that would have made it too dicey to drill new holes around 127mm. So I ended up ordering some Spawn cranks for the Orebea. However your cranks found a good new home - I installed them on my older son's Hotrock 20. I picked up two 30T narrow-wide chainrings on Ebay. Huge improvement on both bikes!


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## zuuds (Jan 30, 2004)

agge said:


> [Got the Orbea for my son(4.5y) last week, he also have problems climbing steep hills with the 34t chainring.
> I am looking at changing crankset to the trek or spawn 32t.
> Anyone with experience from these?
> https://spawncycles.com/spawn-cycles-alloy-cranks-127


Yes, I just installed those Spawn cranks on my daughter's bike. Note you will also need a new bottom bracket with the Spawn cranks. The stock Orbea bb spindle is 118mm. When I first installed the Spawn crankarms, it seemed like they did not seat far enough onto the square taper spindle. The chainline in the large cogs was at an extreme angle because cranks were sitting way too far outboard on the spindle. I cleaned and lightly greased the square taper spindles before installing the cranks, so they are as seated as they could be. I thought the Spawn cranks were defective so I emailed them. They got back to me right away, and helped me figure out the problem: the stock Orbea crank arms have an extra-deep 21mm square taper interface (whereas the Spawn's are 18mm deep), so that is why the bike has such a long bb spindle. The Orbea crank arms take up the whole 118mm spindle and give a 50mm chainline with the stock spindle. The Spawn cranks on that same 118mm spindle give a 53mm chainline hence the chainline problems. I replaced the 118mm BB with a 110mm BB, and now the chainline is about 48mm and it shifts great.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Glad you could find a good use for them Zuuds!


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## OKJC (Sep 8, 2017)

Steve-XtC said:


> I had typed VERY similar ... then didn't finish
> 
> My 7yr old boy rides a girls white and pink frame... the "pink" is called "light red" and the cables, stem, chainring, bolts etc. etc. are all deep red...
> 
> Last week I had to mess with the cables (I have 5m of Jagwire red outer and was just changing due to our climate) and snipped the last red cable crimp off and replaced with a silver one. Took him 30 secs to spot the swap...


I'd been getting frustrated with the available kids bikes until this Orbea MX 20 Team caught my attention on the used rack at my local bike shop. Sure, it's got a little pink on it and it's for my son, but at $250 it was a no-brainer. First off, I think the colors are sick, but I knew a turning-five-years-old little boy might not agree. Turns out, it's "light red" as far as he's concerned anyway, so it's a non-issue.

A family visited for a weekend and wanted to rent mountain bikes from a different shop, but they only rent kids cruisers, so the dad just bought everyone bikes I guess. The shop wouldn't give him a refund so he took them to this shop. Apparently it was used one weekend, I thought it was brand new.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Score buddy!


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## baltik (Nov 16, 2005)

Does anyone know why the Orbea is so heavy? The component spec looks great but at 21lbs+ it's meaningfully heavier than WOOM, early rider belter or islabike. 25% weight gain vs the the Woom 4 seems like a lot. Do we know if this is a porky frame or is there a heavy component that's weighing this down?


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

1.5" Kenda tires and 20 spoke wheels on the Woom is where the weight savings comes from. Your kid might or might not fold and or flat those the first 1/4 mile off the trail. Orbea has a more rugged MTB build with bury (overkill?) wheels and tires. Again, use your judgement if your kid would need such a rugged wheelset. The wheelset on the Orbea is heavy, along with probably seatpost, stem, handlebar, etc..


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## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

The wheels are tubeless ready, so some weight can be shed there. Definite weight to be lost in seatpost, bars, and stem. The derailleur and cassette are not the lightest either.


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## vtsteevo (Jan 19, 2010)

Just curious how everyone's kid is liking the MX20. My 4.5 year old is on a Spawn Banshee 16 right now, almost time to upgrade! I called a couple of bike stores around me and no one has it in stock to go look at.


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## DickyT (Mar 30, 2017)

vtsteevo said:


> Just curious how everyone's kid is liking the MX20. My 4.5 year old is on a Spawn Banshee 16 right now, almost time to upgrade! I called a couple of bike stores around me and no one has it in stock to go look at.


My son loves his. He took the hot South Florida summer off from riding, but the first day of sub 90 degree weather we had, he asked to go riding. We have pedaled around the neighborhood every night since and I'll have him back out on the trails this Saturday.


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## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

I have not gotten it down to the frame, but I just picked up the orbea bike for my son and made a spreadsheet with some of the component weights that I've measured and some that I've googled if that will help anybody. I will add to it when I get around to taking the tires and tubes off and anything else that I end up changing. 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...SahINT0mYiPF25lpuOtr7Cj2HTE/edit?usp=drivesdk


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