# 50K race coming up. Looking to solve the back pain



## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

Evening all,

As the subject says it all. I have been riding twice a week for the last 3 months and am currently up to 20 miles on the weekends. I stretch every single morning for 30 minutes TRYING to make these lower back pains that come on at around 12 - 15 miles give or take. I know my cardio and legs will handle the 50K no problem, but I am afraid the lower back will not let me.
What do you all think about an aspirin before I head out or maybe 10 miles in? I will continue to stretch and ride and work on core, but I have this race Oct. 16th. There is no giving up on this. There has got to be something to help me get through this.

The bike is set up good. I am working on my ride posture, don't know what else to ease this lower back pain.

Any advice would be great please.

Thanks

Sid


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

The only thing that has helped me is to stand up way more than I ever did. Every short climb, I stand up and try to physically not arch my back. Watch how Jenny rissveds races, and you’ll see it. She sits more upright and it looks a bit odd. But that one thing, realizing how I hunched over while seated. I found a coach for mtb strength training, and his first message was how sitting down and hammering is hard on the low back.

Easy enough to try, it’s free, but does take some work to get your standing leg muscles used to it.

That, andrubbing AMP pr lotion helped too.

I tried rubbing icy hot before races, Advil before, didn’t help me. I’m 53 and have been training and racing 31 years straight now. It’s always been an issue.


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## hammersorethumb (Sep 14, 2018)

While stretching is great, have you ever tried a yoga routine? I find it keeps me injury free when I keep up with it. I just follow a 20 min YouTube video Monday, Wed, Friday, and I ride Tuesday and Thursday and once on the weekend. This is the routine I do most frequently, but there are a lot of other 20 min yoga for mountain biking or yoga for cycling videos to choose from. 



. The other source I love for help is Bob & Brad 



. They are physical therapists and their advice and videos have helped me cure plantar faciatitis, IT pain, and Achilles tendonitis. I know that they also have videos for back pain. Best of luck to you.


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## nOOky (May 13, 2008)

Are you doing any strength training for your upper body/core? It might be worth the fee to visit a PT to get checked out and maybe have some exercises recommended.


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## speedygz (May 12, 2020)

nOOky said:


> Are you doing any strength training for your upper body/core? It might be worth the fee to visit a PT to get checked out and maybe have some exercises recommended.


This^^^^^^^^^ What you need to do is visit a Physiotherapist & get some exercises happening to build up your core muscles that support your back. It works. Not overnight, you'll have some relapses, but keep at it & you'll eventually get there. I find hiking/walking up steep hills & over very rough terrain helps too.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

ShortTravelMag said:


> The only thing that has helped me is to stand up way more than I ever did.
> ...


I do this.

A static position is bad for me, even on a road ride.
Sitting over rough trails is not an option on my HT.
I am more efficient/smoother if I can push a bigger gear.
So standing solves everything.

-F


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Complete wild guess, but is your seat too high? If you hips are rocking at all that will irritate your back in a hurry.

I am super sensitive to this. If my seat is a mm too high it will set my back off.


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## llamapoo (Apr 24, 2013)

Everything everyone else said, and I'll add that maybe moving the saddle forward or backward on the rails might help. 

I've had this same problem and it occasionally resurfaces. My physio has constantly said I have poor hip mobility and glute activation and this results in my back muscles being recruited for lower body activities leading to lower back pain after a time. She had me do squats holding a broom stick along my back and maintaining contact with it as I squatted and stood back up. This retrained my muscles and eliminated the back pain. Like I said, apparently my body sometimes forgets so I have to go back to the squat routine but it always seems to do the trick. I just keep falling into bad habits, presumably because they are easy or I'm compensating for something else.

Good luck - hope you find the solution that works for you!


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

llamapoo said:


> Everything everyone else said, and I'll add that maybe moving the saddle forward or backward on the rails might help.


I'm no Steep Seat Tube zealot, but I think sliding the seat forward might just help. And, it's free, quick, and easy to change back.

I'd also agree with the core and upper body strengthening already recommended, but I'm not sure the remaining time is enough. Couldn't hurt to start, I guess. I do a 20-25 minute dumbbell/situp/pushup routine twice a week, and I think it makes sense for mtb.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

cityjackit said:


> Evening all,
> 
> What do you all think about an aspirin before I head out or maybe 10 miles in?
> 
> ...


An aspirin? Man, this is the fifty+ forum. Some people here are taking 800mg of ibuprofen 3 times a day on bad days and I bet at least half are on an aspirin a day so their heart doesn't explode!
If you're gonna medicate, be serious.
Anyway, how is your bike set up - are your bars lower than your saddle? Could you make some adjustments, like raise the bar height relative to the saddle, or anything else?
Have you tried anything else?
Are you on 175 cranks? Are you short? What bike? Are you on flats or clipless? Where, exactly, is the pain? If it's on either side of the base of your spine, this is magic!

I just do the exercise at time 4:00, now and it prevents the back pain I had been getting. My wife just did it once, and her back pain was gone.


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## phrider (Jul 1, 2016)

Look up the Big 3 back exercises from Stuart McGill. Guy wrote the book on back pain and treatments. I did those exercises daily or twice a day and it fixed my back pain while riding. Your core (like mine was) is weak. Don't waste your money or chiropractors or PT's.


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## ZX11 (Dec 24, 2020)

Back pain? Butt pain? Sadly, absolutely can't handle a mountain trail.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

Yoga, core work, stretching, squats, posture on the bike - have to do these. Going to a steeper seat angle made the biggest difference for me, and a more upright climbing position. Had to change my cleat position. Ditching the hydro pack for a hip pack/bottle combo also made a difference.


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## nayr497 (Nov 9, 2011)

I have always done a ton of core work, so am good there. My lower back will give me pain if I get out of alignment. I try to do some combination of deadlifts, "supermans" and "chops" every day. "Chops" keep my back feeling great.

I use a dumbbell or a homemade kettle ball that I made. Stand with feet apart, back flat, stomach firm and swing the weight down between my legs, head up. I'm sure there is a more proper name for this, but the motion is as if you are standing on a log and chopping it between your legs.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

cityjackit said:


> Evening all,
> 
> As the subject says it all. I have been riding twice a week for the last 3 months and am currently up to 20 miles on the weekends. I stretch every single morning for 30 minutes TRYING to make these lower back pains that come on at around 12 - 15 miles give or take. I know my cardio and legs will handle the 50K no problem, but I am afraid the lower back will not let me.
> What do you all think about an aspirin before I head out or maybe 10 miles in? I will continue to stretch and ride and work on core, but I have this race Oct. 16th. There is no giving up on this. There has got to be something to help me get through this.
> ...


What kind of riding? What kind of bike? How old are you? Do you do any other kind of exercise? How long has your back been painful?

I'm sure some bike set up help would be in order, low back pain on a bike is not that common, usually it's shoulders, hips, neck.


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## Pisgah (Feb 24, 2006)

OP, do you wear a back pack/camelbak?


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

Evening Pisgah,

Its the Barnburner I'm doing over at Lake James in October. And yes, I do wear a Leatt 2.0 liter hydration pack. My Intense does not have a bottle holder. What are you thinking? Where you located at? We need to get together and ride.

Sid


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

Hey Nurse Ben,

I ride never the jumplines, , but I like technical single track as I am an old Hare Scramble moto guy for 30 + years. Been riding mtb for about 3 years now. This race upcoming is what I'm told a "short travel bike" course or hardtails. Long travel if thats all you have. Which is me. I have an Intense Tracer I think its 165/150 front to rear. I am 6' 3" 200 lbs nekkid. As you can see in the attached pics, my bars are just slightly lower than the front of my WTB saddle. I just recently tilted the front of the saddle down and moved at just about all the way forward on the rails. That prolonged the back pain onset from at about 6 miles to somewhere around 15 miles. I also did drop the seat post a bit. Still have a decent bend at the knee at the bottom of my pedalstroke. I currently have the Renthal risers on there and have three spacers under the stem as it sits. I do not know what else to do to the bike setup wise to help. I do feel pressure on the shoulders when I ride, but I try to sit up often and give them a rest. I've been working on the posture as well. Take a look ay my crank pics. I think they are 175's.

59 years old and slim. Still riding my KTM 300 XCW once a month. More in the cooler months as well. As far as exercise, I workout at the Y 2 - 3 days a week. Chest, shoulders, tri's and bi's, quads on the leg press and also leg extensions as well as the hammys on reverse leg curls. Start each workout with 20 - 25 min on the spin bike. Avg 100 - 110 rpm for about most of the duration on a medium intensity.

Every morning before work in the work gym, I stretch and do what I know as far as yoga for 30 min. I guess I need to do more core now that I write this all down. Planks kill my back though. I'm open to suggestions for core.

I've been having the lower back pain ever since I started mtb. Shoulders yes, hips no, neck was more before my slight saddle adjustments.

Thanks a ton to all of you who have chimed in.

I am all ears.

Sid


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

Interesting Nayr,

the "Supermans", I think I'm already doing. Dead lifts NOPE. Think that would be a good addition? These "Chop" things, now those seem interesting.

Thanks for the input.

Sid


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

D365, ditch the back pack huh? Not a bad idea.

Thanks


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

MSU Alum said:


> An aspirin? Man, this is the fifty+ forum. Some people here are taking 800mg of ibuprofen 3 times a day on bad days and I bet at least half are on an aspirin a day so their heart doesn't explode!
> If you're gonna medicate, be serious.
> Anyway, how is your bike set up - are your bars lower than your saddle? Could you make some adjustments, like raise the bar height relative to the saddle, or anything else?
> Have you tried anything else?
> ...


Yes, looking at my cranks, they are 175's. Curious to know what you are thinking about the crank length. Me being 6' 3 and all. I am riding flat pedals also. See my answers below to your questions. thank you so much for your help.

I am a fan of Jeff at Athlean X. Hes good.

Thanks

Sid


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

cityjackit said:


> Yes, looking at my cranks, they are 175's. Curious to know what you are thinking about the crank length. Me being 6' 3 and all. I am riding flat pedals also. See my answers below to your questions. thank you so much for your help.
> 
> I am a fan of Jeff at Athlean X. Hes good.
> 
> ...


Because you are so tall, 175's are probably appropriate. My wife went from 175 to 170 and immediately eliminated knee pain. That's different from your problem, of course, but I'm just wondering about your set up. Sometimes it seems that it's difficult for tall riders to set up their bike such that they don't have the bars considerably lower than the saddle. That seems to result in back pain, so I'd look into that.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Get an xray and an evaluation of how much ddd you might have. 

seat tilt affects hand pressure. Adjust so you dont have any during the majority of your ride.
Big climb day then tip it down

saddle height imo should be as high as possible. Just for efficiency.
Look at an sqlabs saddle if you dont have one. It has some rotation during pedalling the helps the low back


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Raise your bars and slide you’re seat forward, only XC and roadies need to be that bent over.

Seriously, being bent in half for hours is gonna make you back sore.

Get your hips forward to better support you weight


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## eri (Sep 4, 2012)

ShortTravelMag said:


> The only thing that has helped me is to stand up way more than I ever did. Every short climb, I stand up and try to physically not arch my back. Watch how Jenny rissveds races, and you'll see it. She sits more upright and it looks a bit odd. But that one thing, realizing how I hunched over while seated. I found a coach for mtb strength training, and his first message was how sitting down and hammering is hard on the low back.
> 
> Easy enough to try, it's free, but does take some work to get your standing leg muscles used to it.


This! Used to have back pain, it all disappeared after I started single speeding. I think it's the hip support muscles and glutes. Just go climb in a harder gear out of saddle, strained cadence of 30 or so. Three weeks and you'll be pain free.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Nurse Ben said:


> Raise your bars and slide you're seat forward, only XC and roadies need to be that bent over.
> 
> Seriously, being bent in half for hours is gonna make you back sore.
> 
> Get your hips forward to better support you weight


A bike that is too short with bars too high is just as uncomfortable as a bike that is too long with bars too low. And what is comfortable for a 15km after work cruise is not necessarily comfortable for a 50km XC race.

A comfortable fit is one that allows you to brace against pedalling forces without having to activate your back. This is actually the reason why XC race positions are so low. That body position allows them just to use their weight, not there back muscles, to brace against pedalling forces.

Looking at the OPs fit I would tell him to the opposite of what you suggesting. I would swap some spacers and bring that front end down. The fore and aft adjustment of the seat is for adjusting to different femur lengths. Moving it away from the correct position is going to be uncomfortable either way.


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## nayr497 (Nov 9, 2011)

You can start doing the "chops" exercise with a tennis ball (or bouncy kids ball) to work on your technique. Then you can add 5 lbs on up. I use a 20 or 25 lbs dumbell. 

I broke my leg playing college sports, didn't properly rehab it because I HATED rehab, sooooo boring. Kind of like jogging to me My legs, hip flexors, and back all got really out of alignment because of that. Oh, and running on junky older astroturf for four years straight.

Chops really got my lower back feeling better. Any sort of "supermans" or hyperextensions are great too. You can also get on the floor on all fours and then raise opposite arms/opposite legs while keeping your core firm. This is another GREAT overall core/lower back exercise. Heck, even hits your neck, hips and legs.

And twists with a hockey stick or broom are great for your side abs/back muscles.


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> Raise your bars and slide you're seat forward, only XC and roadies need to be that bent over.
> 
> Seriously, being bent in half for hours is gonna make you back sore.
> 
> Get your hips forward to better support you weight


Ben,
Not too sure how I can raise the bars any higher. I already have the max spacers under the stem and the Renthals are risers. Are there any other riser bars that are higher than these you know of?


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

eri said:


> This! Used to have back pain, it all disappeared after I started single speeding. I think it's the hip support muscles and glutes. Just go climb in a harder gear out of saddle, strained cadence of 30 or so. Three weeks and you'll be pain free.


This is interesting. I will move the saddle forward more as much as I can, but single speeding? Is that what you call it when you push a taller gear and have to stand up to move that gear? I guess thats a means of forcing yourself to stand up?


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

nayr497 said:


> You can start doing the "chops" exercise with a tennis ball (or bouncy kids ball) to work on your technique. Then you can add 5 lbs on up. I use a 20 or 25 lbs dumbell.
> 
> I broke my leg playing college sports, didn't properly rehab it because I HATED rehab, sooooo boring. Kind of like jogging to me My legs, hip flexors, and back all got really out of alignment because of that. Oh, and running on junky older astroturf for four years straight.
> 
> ...


Thank you nayr


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

LMN said:


> A bike that is too short with bars too high is just as uncomfortable as a bike that is too long with bars too low. And what is comfortable for a 15km after work cruise is not necessarily comfortable for a 50km XC race.
> 
> A comfortable fit is one that allows you to brace against pedalling forces without having to activate your back. This is actually the reason why XC race positions are so low. That body position allows them just to use their weight, not there back muscles, to brace against pedalling forces.
> 
> Looking at the OPs fit I would tell him to the opposite of what you suggesting. I would swap some spacers and bring that front end down. The fore and aft adjustment of the seat is for adjusting to different femur lengths. Moving it away from the correct position is going to be uncomfortable either way.


*A comfortable fit is one that allows you to brace against pedalling forces without having to activate your back*. Can you explain how this is done and what you mean please LMN


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Raise your bars and slide you're seat forward, only XC and roadies need to be that bent over.
> 
> Seriously, being bent in half for hours is gonna make you back sore.
> 
> Get your hips forward to better support you weight


That's not a universal truth. I'm tall & flimsy and have had a problematic lower back forever but for whatever reason a racy position doesn't bother it at all. My road bike bars are 14cm lower than my seat and it's quite comfy even on long rides


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Back issues here – scoliosis, herniated disk, calcification, yada. Not a racer but ride long.

LMN’s advice jives with what works for me. Less upright means less seat>spine pressure and milder unexpected impacts. Move some weight to the hands and legs by way of fit and technique.

Riding a singlespeed has helped immensely. A PNW Components Coast (suspension) dropper on the hardtail has also helped. Pre-ride aspirin, even one as you propose makes a difference. Heat before activity, cold after. Arnica, CBD oil, massage. Hydrate and rest (off the bike as needed) plenty.

No magic bullet, IME. Best results come from hitting every angle. Keeping back muscles in shape is the single most important one for me, and the SS is the most effective way to that end.


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## eri (Sep 4, 2012)

cityjackit said:


> This is interesting. I will move the saddle forward more as much as I can, but single speeding? Is that what you call it when you push a taller gear and have to stand up to move that gear? I guess thats a means of forcing yourself to stand up?


Yeah. I promise, 7 years ago I was laughing at singlespeeders - same as unicyclists in my book - and clowns. Tried it and found I was always smiling after a singlespeed ride. Key is that I'm stuck going up these awful steep trails in the wrong gear and I'll be damned if I'll walk. Changes your whole perspective from one of speed to one of self-preservation.

End of the day though I am out of the saddle pretty much continuously, climbing because gear is too high, descending because its a hardtail. All that standing strengthened my femoralis, hips and glutes and suddenly back pain and knee pain were gone. Pretty amazing as I used to be crimped up spinning hills on a full suspension geared bike with back and knee pain.

I bet it would be pretty hard to simply ride in wrong gear but you might try, the deal with desperate stand climbing is that its pretty dynamic rhythmic lunging thing, you get a bit sideways with the hips so its a stretch and a heavy weight press, engages arms and abs. The other is to just do a ton of box step ups, eventually with a backpack or weighted bar across your shoulders.


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

eri said:


> Yeah. I promise, 7 years ago I was laughing at singlespeeders - same as unicyclists in my book - and clowns. Tried it and found I was always smiling after a singlespeed ride. Key is that I'm stuck going up these awful steep trails in the wrong gear and I'll be damned if I'll walk. Changes your whole perspective from one of speed to one of self-preservation.
> 
> End of the day though I am out of the saddle pretty much continuously, climbing because gear is too high, descending because its a hardtail. All that standing strengthened my femoralis, hips and glutes and suddenly back pain and knee pain were gone. Pretty amazing as I used to be crimped up spinning hills on a full suspension geared bike with back and knee pain.
> 
> I bet it would be pretty hard to simply ride in wrong gear but you might try, the deal with desperate stand climbing is that its pretty dynamic rhythm I set the seat ic lunging thing, you get a bit sideways with the hips so its a stretch and a heavy weight press, engages arms and abs. The other is to just do a ton of box step ups, eventually with a backpack or weighted bar across your shoulders.


eri, you might be on to something with this single speed thing. I just left the gym where I pedaled almost 9 miles in 30 minutes on my spin bike. I set the seat on the rails more rearward than forward to take the weight off my butt. Move the bars forward a bit all to isolate the weight from my butt. I did my normal 5 minute decent pace warm up and then got after it. Every other minute, I'd crank the intensity up to the point where the only way I could spin was stand up and even then I had to pump it out. Did that for 30 seconds and then back to another 90 - 120 seconds of normal intensity then another 30 seconds of stand up pumping. That was tough on my legs when pumping standing up. Until I found the comfort spot of standing. After 30 minutes of this, I have to say, and maybe its still early to tell with such a small sample size, I felt really really good after 30 minutes. Sweat like hell and damn near needed a mop under the spin bike, but NO back pain. Not even a twinge.

Like LMN said, I also focused when not standing isolating my pedaling from my back. I was definitely bent over more, but the quads were doing the work.

Dinner time.

Got to go.

I'll report back more.

thanks again

Sid


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

cityjackit said:


> Ben,
> Not too sure how I can raise the bars any higher. I already have the max spacers under the stem and the Renthals are risers. Are there any other riser bars that are higher than these you know of?


So the bike doesn't fit you.

There are taller riser bars, but there's a limit to what you can do with a that is too small or not properly proportioned.

There's a reason that many bike "genre" are set up with a high front end, this is often done for comfort and/or control.

Like most of us older folks, I grew up riding road bikes and moved into mountain bikes in the early days when the bars were flat and low. This felt normal back then because a flat bar was not unlike riding a road bike on your hoods.

Then I got older and I stared having neck, shoulder, and arm pain from being hunched over all the time. I took inspiration from Mike Curiak; he has neck pain and struggles to be comfortable while riding, and so I started running a high front end.

Yes, I am more comfortable and I lost nothing in terms of bike handling.

I bought into the long and low trend until I noticed it was not helping me ride and it did not make me more comfortable. Now I've settled into a sizing that is more moderate, I'm 72" tall with 34" inseam and long arms, my bikes have ~ 475mm reach, 35mm stem, riser bars that are 1-2 cm higher than the top of my seat.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

I didnt read any of the reply's so maybe this is covered. 

Strengthen your core. Cyclest generally have piss weak cores. 
Crank in core strength and magically your back pain will go away. 

I cannot be bothered with gym work. So I strength my core by kitesurfing. I used to get prolific sort backs, back in the day, to a point that I went to see a sports doctor about it. 

I started kitesurfing regularly and boom. No more sore back biking.


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## speedygz (May 12, 2020)

plummet said:


> I didnt read any of the reply's so maybe this is covered.
> 
> Strengthen your core. Cyclest generally have piss weak cores.
> Crank in core strength and magically your back pain will go away.
> ...


Pretty much this. It's not the bikes fault. I can now use a bike ride to strengthen my core, and actually alleviate back pain. Once you understand that if you're getting pain through your hands, wrists, shoulders neck etc, it's because your core isn't strong enough, and you're supporting your weight through your arms and hands, rather than core muscles. You have to make a deliberate effort to NOT use your hands and arms, and focus on tensing your core muscles. Otherwise you're only avoiding the symptoms, not the cause.
The same complaints happen in the motorcycle world, when people try to ride sports bikes, rather than general cruiser/touring bikes.


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

Core it is guys. Core it is. Its all I worked on this morning and at the Y this afternoon. Plus that single speeding is helping.

Thanks a ton again.

Now on to some bib shorts. I need to find some decent ones.

Have a great night guys and see you all in Snowshoe.

Sid


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

cityjackit said:


> Evening all,
> 
> As the subject says it all. I have been riding twice a week for the last 3 months and am currently up to 20 miles on the weekends. I stretch every single morning for 30 minutes TRYING to make these lower back pains that come on at around 12 - 15 miles give or take. I know my cardio and legs will handle the 50K no problem, but I am afraid the lower back will not let me.
> What do you all think about an aspirin before I head out or maybe 10 miles in? I will continue to stretch and ride and work on core, but I have this race Oct. 16th. There is no giving up on this. There has got to be something to help me get through this.
> ...


Frankly, the cause needs to be diagnosed by qualified MD's. After discovering the cause, then a treatment can be prescribed. Instant gratification is prolly not an option so you are going to have to pay close attention as your body tells you a story on the trail. Seriously, get in to a physician and get the ball rolling. Nsaids can help but they can also do harm. 

I have been going through lower/mid back pain that is utterly debilitating lately. MRI and CT have been performed since I do have scoliosis. Still working out the issue and treatment. Progress... Ugh!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

How did your race work out?


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## cityjackit (May 13, 2015)

Oct 16th 9am. Still doing intervals on the spin during the week. 22 to 24 miles on the weekend. Standing up is definitely helping.
Ill let you know.
Thanks LMN

Sid


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