# Bike Shop Blues Anti-Passion



## anthonys (Jan 22, 2004)

I know, I know, we all love to bag on the LBS. Those money grubbing, brick and mortar scumbags.

 

But I work in a local bike shop. I like it. I think we do a pretty darned good job of serving the customer, having cool stuff in stock, and not charging an arm and a leg.

Here's a few tales from the crypt, though.

A week or so ago I had a guy come in looking for shoes. I asessed his foot, measured overall length and arch length. I asked about pronation, supination, arch height. I looked at forefoot flexibility. I asked if there were any issues with Plantar Fasciitis or a Morton's Neuroma. And ended up fitting him into a set of Shimanos that would work quite well for him. He said he would think about it and called me back 4 days later, informing me that he had bought some Lakes on the internet, and they didn't fit nearly as well as the Shimanos. Could I look at various shoe brands available online and come up with a set of suggestions that might fit as well as the Shimanos? He appreciated my service but wanted to save 10 bucks.

:madman: 

Also the other day I approached a couple of guys looking at high end mountain bikes and they looked at me and said, "We want to talk to someone about mountain bikes, but YOU don't look like that guy."

:skep: 

Oh and then there are the constant stream of peopole who accuse us of stealing their valve caps.

:thumbsup: 

Anyway, it is a jungle in there.


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## ~gomez~ (Sep 26, 2006)

That's where all our rft: valve caps are going!


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## Arkon (Apr 27, 2004)

Haaaa. I don't work at a shop but i hang at one quite frequently and love to hear these stories that bag on rediculous customers. This could be a pretty funny thread.


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## Brutal Cycles (Feb 16, 2007)

anthonys said:


> Also the other day I approached a couple of guys looking at high end mountain bikes and they looked at me and said, "We want to talk to someone about mountain bikes, but YOU don't look like that guy."
> :skep:


Really Anthony, what would you know about mountain biking?


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

Although I purchase a _lot _of gear on the 'net, when I step into my LBS, it's because I'm willing to pay for the convenience of getting something right then and there. These Fox gloves fit me? Sold. This seat pack is exactly big enough for what I'm carrying? Sold.

The shoe guy reminds me of customers who will call me, pick my brain for 45 minutes, and then ask, "OK, I'll take it. Who has the best price on the 'net, and will you match it?" And get this, mine is an internet-only business!

Go figure.


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## Dogdude222 (Aug 31, 2005)

*Just out of curiosity*

Just out of curiosity...what bike shop do your work in? Feel free to PM me back if you prefer. I'm headed back to Denver now that I'm done with college and am in constant search of "THE" bike shop.


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## Jessep (Dec 1, 2004)

I worked at a bike shop for a while myself, and also have many a story to tell about similar situations. That was in Bozeman, MT, and the shop is still going strong with a growing loyal customer base. I'm yet to find a decent shop in Connecticut that's close enough to rely on when I need them.. I deal with the shop back home more than any of the local shops here..

I think it's hard to run a good shop without getting bitter from all the shite customers out there. Seems you are doing a good job of it, I bet you see a lot more crap than I ever did..


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## anthonys (Jan 22, 2004)

I certainly don't want to have this thread morph into a "bag on customers" thread, because I think it is the business of bike shops to provide exceptional customer care. And it is my job to be patient, and to listen.


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## zod (Jul 15, 2003)

We had a dude come in and start looking at pannier bags. When we asked if we could help he proceeded to ask us if the bags would fit on a moped......then he wanted to know if we thought he could fit two 12 packs of beer in them.....said he was gonna ride his moped to West Virginia (our shop is near the NC/SC line). Funny stuff.


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## crashedandburned (Jan 9, 2004)

Some costumers are really cool and others are pure pr!cks. I had a guy the other day come in and wanted a cost est to repair a 30 yr old bike that looked like it had been in a storage shed for the last 10 yrs. Needed new wheels, tires, tubes, rim tape. Labor to install parts, wanted us to adjust the derailers and had to do a cassette swap. I worked it out to something like $170 all told. About half in parts. Needless to say he wasn't happy and said he had his wife's bike in there a few weeks prior for the same repairs for about $70. :skep: I told him that the parts alone was almost that much. He wanted to speak to the guy who repaired his wife's bike, but he wasn't in so the guy took his bike and left. When I went in yesterday I spoke w/ the mechanic and he said my price was good. The other bike only had one wheel replacement and not two.

I don't think shops will ever be totally done by 'net sales. People just don't know enough about bikes to do all the repairs they need. I'm not talking about "regular" cyclists, I'm referring to people have bikes and let them sit then later decide to ride and find they can't fix a flat. Plus, like one poster mentioned, you can't try on the clothes on before you buy them over the net. I'm more than willing to pay for that convenience.


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## forkboy (Apr 20, 2004)

anthonys said:


> I certainly don't want to have this thread morph into a "bag on customers" thread, because I think it is the business of bike shops to provide exceptional customer care. And it is my job to be patient, and to listen.


Ummm... at the risk of pointing out the obvious, 95% of the body of your first message is bagging on customers.

I don't think you have to worry about the thread *morphing* into a bagging on customers thread, because it started out that way.

Sometimes customers need to be bagged upon. There are probably a lot of potential customers on here that don't realize how inappropriate it is to use the knowlege of the LBS to make an online purchase. When you patronize the LBS, think of paying MSRP as a surcharge for the use of their professional knowlege - not as overpricing.


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## scorpionwoman (Jul 7, 2006)

anthonys said:


> Also the other day I approached a couple of guys looking at high end mountain bikes and they looked at me and said, "We want to talk to someone about mountain bikes, but YOU don't look like that guy."


Uh huh. Try being the only female on the sales floor, and the one that most of the sales guys steer mountainbike-buying customers towards. At least thus far I've only gotten incredulous looks, not comments such as the one directed at you.

But all in all, working in a bike shop is pretty fun. Just gotta keep it light.

Anthony, remind me to take you with me the next time I shop for *any* kind of shoe.


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## Jessep (Dec 1, 2004)

> Anthony, remind me to take you with me the next time I shop for *any* kind of shoe.


Yeah, no kiddin'.. That's some serious service right there...


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

forkboy said:


> .... There are probably a lot of potential customers on here that don't realize how inappropriate it is to use the knowlege of the LBS to make an online purchase. When you patronize the LBS, think of paying MSRP as a surcharge for the use of their professional knowlege - not as overpricing.


But that makes me wonder how many bike shop employees post replies to answers like this on mtbr, allowing their brains to be picked, and spending the same amount of their time doing it as if their were in the shop?


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## monkeyfist23 (Dec 7, 2005)

Jessep
Not sure where you're located in CT, but Smart Cycles in norwalk is solid. Really knowledgeable and fast turnaround times. I usually do all of my work myself, but I will go to them for parts, unless I can find a better deal on line. They deal in higher end bikes like SC and Intense and they are mountain bikers themselves. They have a pretty good web site too....


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## forkboy (Apr 20, 2004)

lidarman said:


> But that makes me wonder how many bike shop employees post replies to answers like this on mtbr, allowing their brains to be picked, and spending the same amount of their time doing it as if their were in the shop?


True - but that's their own choice. Kind of like volunteer work. There's no expectation of compensation on here, and the LBS these guys are working for isn't losing any money in the manhours they spend posting.

Internet advice doesn't come with a warranty either.

I personally buy very little from my LBS. They're nice enough guys, and do fantastic work - and whenever I walk through the door, I am prepared to pay the full markup. Most of the time I am not willing to pay the markup, so I buy online knowing that I may have to ship it back to the vendor, deal with a lack of customer service, or contact the manufacturer directly.


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## eggraid101 (Mar 13, 2006)

The old valve cap scheme! Those friggin' bike shops stealing everyone's valve caps just to turn them around and sell them for big bucks on the internet.

My wife used to change the oil in her car now and then. Well, one time she took it into a shop to have it done. The next time it was due 3 months later, she tried to change it hersellf and couldn't get the bolt off the bottom of the oil pan. She came in saying how the nut was too tight and it looked all rusty, too. So I kind of gave her the brush off and basically told her to take it into the shop and just have them loosen it a little, after I tried and couldn't loosen it either. So she gets on the phone with her friend, who, after a few minutes has my wife convinced that they took her nice new bolt, and switched it with an old rusty bolt. They had each other convinced that the shop had a scheme to collect people's new bolt and exchange them with old, rusty bolts. It took awhile to calm them down, until finally I convinced them how ridiculous it would be to switch out a $0.15 bolt. Any time someone comes up with a hare-brained scheme or if we feel like someone's taking advantage of us, we talk about "the old bolt switch."


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

When I walk into a LBS I know immediately I'm going to pay full price, and I accept that. There is no way a LBS can compete with mail order/internet prices because I Know they can't move that much volume, and they have to pay the heat, hydro, water and rent. I buy small stuff from there and clothing. But I will never buy an entire XTR gruppo from them. It's just not cost effective, especially for Canadian LBS who have to deal with only two or three distributors for all parts in Canada. Those distributors are also a reason why the markup is so high in Canada. They force LBS to sell at X price. I as a customer do not support that mentality of exclusive distributor rights, and thus I mail order in big purchases from USA, Itlay, Hong Kong, and England. 

Last big purchase I made was dura-ace shifters for my road bike. 310 USD online. LBS wanted 699 CDN or about 630 CDN + Tax.

However the last big purchase I made from a LBS was a pair of Time carbon fiber road shoes which was a lot more than online, but you can't try them on for fit online.


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## Timmy (Jan 12, 2004)

*Yours is one of the better shops*

You always have to deal with idiots, in all professions for that matter. But yours is a quality shop. This is probably before your time, but they were very proactive in supporting my former club which was greatly appreciated.

When I was relocated five years ago they sent me a jersey and vest as a parting gift. They are still my favorites. Class shop and I'm happy to see they are doing well.

Regards!


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## Loudpawlz (Jan 26, 2004)

I know your type. You litter your parking lot with goat heads.


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## chequamagon (Oct 4, 2006)

i had a guy this week give me a 15 minute lecture on the merits of silk sew-ups. it was surreal at points.


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## EJP (Apr 30, 2007)

anthonys said:


> I know, I know, we all love to bag on the LBS. Those money grubbing, brick and mortar scumbags.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So, what do you do with all of those stolen valve caps, anyway? Is there some sort of black market?

Now, now, there, there. Sounds like you need a ride and a beer.

You can show me mt bikes any time. 

And where else could I have gotten these fabulous yellow fenders, other than a helpful LBS? Definitely NOT online. Well worth it.


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## Astroguy (Sep 29, 2005)

I want to support the local bike shops, I really do, but when I get blatantly ripped off it really gets to me. Example for the day, generic Shimano derailleur housing I can buy in bulk at $1 ft. from several places on the internet. That means the bike shops can probably get it even cheaper direct from the distributor or Shimano, right? But lets assume they get it for $1/ft. also. WHY is it necessary to mark it up not 100%, not 200%, but 300% to $3/ft? I don't have a problem paying extra for service, but please be reasonable and at most charge MSRP, you'll get my business for MSRP, you won't get it for anything above that. So settling for selling stuff at MSRP is better than not selling it all, right?


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## Jwind (Mar 1, 2006)

EJP said:


> And where else could I have gotten these fabulous yellow fenders, other than a helpful LBS? Definitely NOT online. Well worth it.
> 
> View attachment 262757


I have the same ones. I got them online.

BTW, I use my LBS(S) all the time.


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## texacajun (Jan 20, 2004)

Yo Anthony, what else ya gonna do, pimp out the icegeek?  Just having him aired out is gonna set you back a few bones. I prescribe a hoppy libation and 2 wheeled therapy stat! and post some pics for us desk jockies to drool over while you're at it


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## aword4you (Jul 25, 2005)

I'd like to get shoes from someone that helpful also! I guess at our LBS sometimes they come over and feel the shoe on you to make sure it's not too loose or too tight.

Somewhat OT, but if you get stuff mail ordered from someone else's LBS does that count as mail order or LBS? The shop is about 1.5 hours from us so I always call up and get them to ship stuff out. The amazing thing is that I'll look at every LBS in town (at least 3-4 now) and no one will have what I'm looking for (2.35 Nevegal's, margarita bloks, a certain kind of grips, etc), so I call up The Path and they always have everything in. They usually have more in stock than Blue Sky does! I even got a 22T Boone cog from them last week. No one ever has those


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## bigpedaler (Jan 29, 2007)

scorpionwoman said:


> Uh huh. Try being the only female on the sales floor, and the one that most of the sales guys steer mountainbike-buying customers towards. At least thus far I've only gotten incredulous looks, not comments such as the one directed at you.


scorp, i don't know what you look like, how old/big/small/color you are, but i gotta tell you -- any female knowledgeable about bikes in general, and MT bikes in particular, is just plain HOT! and i'm not talking about sex here, either -- a bike-wise woman is a woman of depth and substance!

keep workin' it, girl!!


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## rapwithtom (Feb 26, 2004)

"I need a new MTB, but you don't look like that guy."

"I need a new pair of bike shoes, too, but I can save $10 on the internet."

However, perhaps while I'm here, you could teach me a thing or twenty about photography?


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## jonny290 (May 8, 2007)

Trying to get a hanger for my new frame - it's a one-off hand me down, so I brought it to the LBS to try to get a derailer hanger. I haven't gotten ahold of the seller to find out who made it, I know it's worth at least a few hundred bucks, though.

mind you this frame weighs next to nothing and is obviously not a mass market bicycle

Their verdict? "there's nothing prototype about this, it's a Giant STP"

haha.

I'll never set foot in their shop again. They didn't stock any 27.2 seatposts or 31.8 clamps, either. *sigh*
wonder if they've heard of a 1 1/8 headset


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## ZoSoSwiM (Dec 2, 2005)

I was in the LBS the other day when a guy brought in an old ass bike that needed a bunch to fix it.. Chain, cassette, rear wheel, pedals, tires, cables, derailleurs and tubes at least.. When he was talking to the owner I was standing there and the guy got pissed when he was told how much it would run him. The owner was like.. you could just buy a new bike for the price almost and wouldn't need to worry about the rest of the bike for awhile.. 


He ended up deciding to still fix it.. I was sorta shocked that he was willing to waist that much on a low end junker.. 

In parts alone I'm guessing it would have been well over $120 or so.. and then an hour and half labor most likely would prolly end up at around $60.. for another $40 he could have bought a cheap bike with everything instead...


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

bikeblackribbon said:


> That's where all our rft: valve caps are going!


its me


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## markf (Jan 17, 2007)

yep. i fight the "fix it or buy new" fight a few times a week during the season. almost always with old schwinns that somehow still move or wal-mart crap piles that are a couple years old, and barely running. in both cases i start totalling parts and labor and it's almost always $150+ which is more than the wal-mart bike cost new, and for $50 or so more the schwinn can be mercifully killed and a new one gotten. it never ceases to amaze what some people choose to fix. or how pissed they get when i inform them that their dual suspension magna didn't hold up to that 3 foot curb drop their kid did, and needs new wheels and several other new parts.


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## velocipus (Apr 27, 2005)

anthonys said:


> ...I asessed his foot, measured overall length and arch length. I asked about pronation, supination, arch height. I looked at forefoot flexibility. I asked if there were any issues with Plantar Fasciitis or a Morton's Neuroma. And ended up fitting him into a set of Shimanos that would work quite well for him...


Where did you learn so much about fitting shoes?

I am humbled by your apparent knowledge of the mating of shoes and feet. If you're ever looking for a job in NorCal look me up!

Seriously, Sidi seminars are informative, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone in the bike industry mention Morton's Neuroma... I don't even know what that is.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Dec 2, 2005)

velocipus said:


> Where did you learn so much about fitting shoes?
> 
> I am humbled by your apparent knowledge of the mating of shoes and feet. If you're ever looking for a job in NorCal look me up!
> 
> Seriously, Sidi seminars are informative, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone in the bike industry mention Morton's Neuroma... I don't even know what that is.


I was thinking the same thing.. Mr. Doctor are we :thumbsup:


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## davidws (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah, as a relatively newer rider, ive found that it is well worth the extra money i pay for parts (they install for free if you buy from them usually) just to have the knowledge base about local trails, various skills, and the "i want it now" factor. I really appreciate you guys who work in a LBS for the patience and knowledge you have. Keep the LBS's alive and shop LOCAL!


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## Melt (May 24, 2004)

what the hell kinda noobs actually have valve caps on their bikes


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## Brutal Cycles (Feb 16, 2007)

Melt said:


> what the hell kinda noobs actually have valve caps on their bikes


Most people who own bicycles. It may be a surprise, but "cyclists" typically account for a pretty small percentage of most bike shops clientele.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

A disclaimer I used often when seeing a wreck of a bike come through the door was: "I'd make more money fixing everything that is wrong with this bike than I would selling you a new bike, that being said here's what you're going to need........" It's no BS and it prepared the customer for me to tell them I'd have to charge them double what that thing they dragged in the door is worth to make it safe. When you just throw out the "holy hell just get a new bike those customers think they are getting F'd with." I sold my fair share of new bikes that way despite being a reaaaly bad salesman. I think aside from a few usual suspects, most LBS shoppers appreciate not being screwed with over anything else.


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## wg (Dec 20, 2003)

Melt said:


> what the hell kinda noobs actually have valve caps on their bikes


And your problem with a valve cap is?


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Melt said:


> what the hell kinda noobs actually have valve caps on their bikes


Eh, you're just pissy after taking the time to read all of this thread, only to find *no *car content, right?


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## Dekes (Jan 3, 2007)

I can say I have enough knowledge to never ever having to need some bikeshop advise or help except for truing a wheel cause i don't have a truing stand, too expensive.The lbs guy is really nice, and he knows a lot too, 2 great minds are better than only 1. And as a regular customer i get discounts so his prices match the internet pretty close. I love going there.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*When I worked in a music shop...*

... I had one guy who I knew in high school come in. He was a hobbyist musician, looknig at getting into some music software. So he came in a picked my brain for a good hour about it, went home and called me. 'So what do you think about the Juarez sites?' Juarez? What is that? Oh, Warez? Well, I think they are stealing software. 'Oh, because I found all the software I need on those sites! Thanks for the help!' Jerk. THen he has the nerve to call me a week later about how to use the software he stole. I told him that I would be glad to support it if he bought it from me. Then he called me a week later about what is the best way to remove a virus from his Win 98 PeeCee. Tee hee hee. Payback is a beotch, eh?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*I paid...*



Dekes said:


> I can say I have enough knowledge to never ever having to need some bikeshop advise or help except for truing a wheel cause i don't have a truing stand, too expensive.The lbs guy is really nice, and he knows a lot too, 2 great minds are better than only 1. And as a regular customer i get discounts so his prices match the internet pretty close. I love going there.


... $30 for my truing stand brand new. Works like a champ. It's not a professional grade one, but suits me fine for my twice a year tunings.


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## kingkahuna (May 25, 2004)

here's my blues for the day...
I'm usually pretty tolerant of shop crap, since I used to work in one, and I can relate to the BS they have to deal with.
but I called a shop today on an ADVERTISED special on the internet. 
they (shop owner) told me that they wouldn't sell me the bike. 
It was in fact, for sale. but not to me. Appears that they're afraid of fraud.
I really think they should re-think the whole internet thing if they're afraid of a credit card transaction.
rid-onk-u-lous. 
I really waould have liked it for that price, too. I seriously thought about using some airmiles, flying down to AZ, and picking it up...


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## Dekes (Jan 3, 2007)

pimpbot said:


> ... $30 for my truing stand brand new. Works like a champ. It's not a professional grade one, but suits me fine for my twice a year tunings.


yeah but i live in Belgium. Shipping will be huge? Besides, my bikeshop guy lets me use his when i need it.

However, do you have a picture of yours?


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

Dekes said:


> I can say I have enough knowledge to never ever having to need some bikeshop advise or help except for truing a wheel cause i don't have a truing stand, too expensive...


Flip your bike upside down and use the frame/fork for a truing stand. No expense.

Good thing you have all that knowledge, though.

Anybody who tries on shoes at a shop then buys them on-line is a sleazebag. And I know a few of them.


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## Dekes (Jan 3, 2007)

radair said:


> Good thing you have all that knowledge, though.


Doesn't every one here can fix his bike all by himself? even the hardest problems?


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## nonoy_d (Jun 27, 2005)

*I've heard of*

Working for a LBS may seem to be not bad at all, I've heard from my daughter who has a friend at U of M (Minnesota, Minneapolis) whose Dad is a hand surgeon is on (was on) the A list of Minneapolis/St. Paul magazine. He works part time at a LBS...from what I was told his own way of therapy if he is not riding. I believe he is a roadie though.


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## Toff (Sep 11, 2004)

nonoy_d said:


> Working for a LBS may seem to be not bad at all, I've heard from my daughter who has a friend at U of M (Minnesota, Minneapolis) whose Dad is a hand surgeon is on (was on) the A list of Minneapolis/St. Paul magazine. He works part time at a LBS...from what I was told his own way of therapy if he is not riding. I believe he is a roadie though.


I have no idea what that meant.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

Heres my blues. A guy came in and was looking at our selection of kona's. so I went over and asked him if he needed help, he was wanting a new stinky dee lux. and asked me if we price matched. I told him yes. then he told me about a 2001 stinky dee lux for sale on craigslist for $300.00 would I match the price on the 2007 model


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

We steal the valve caps to look good. We put them in a container on the counter, and give them out for free. That way, people think we are great for giving out the caps for free!


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Don't know about everyone else, but I've been in every bike shop within a hour radius (and there are many, I'm in the western burbs of Chicago). None of them have any cool parts at all. Most are now Trek/Bontrager/Lemond/Fisher dealers, and every accessory known to man has the trek name on it. Bike shops are becoming company stores. Boring. The bike shops seem to cater to people wanting a new bike, if not, then not much reason to go in there anymore. Do that many people still just go in and buy a complete bike? I have never done that in my life. I buy individual components and build up...then swap and buy more. There isn't one single shop that caters to me. I spend tons of dough on bike parts, yet I absolutely have no choice but to go mail order. 

A perfect example, was a local shop called Straight Up Cyclery. I found it in 1991 when my local bike shop never heard of the then new Answer Taperlite handlebars I saw in a magazine. I called Straight Up from a yellow pages ad, and they said "sure, we have 3 colors right here in front of me". And that was it. I was freaking out when I got there - they had everything I'd seen in the magazines, and some that was so new it wasn't even in magazines yet. They only carried high end stuff, yeti, wtb, manitou, grafton, paul, white bros., Curtlo, Crosstrak, you name it. Top of the line, big bucks components. I subsequently spent thousands and thousands of dollars over the next 10 years there. I could go in, and they'd have manitou forks 5 feet high. I could get one right there. I could get Kooka cranks in all colors, xtr stuff, tires, wheels, frames, whatever I wanted. It was like a dream. No ordering it, no waiting weeks, take it home and go. I used to hang out in there for entire afternoons just soaking it all up. People used to drive from Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, on a saturday just to see this stuff in person - then walk out with a maxed out credit card. That guy made a fortune, and through horrible management and some other crap that is too boring to go into, he had to move and become a regular bike shop selling Dyno bmx bikes and low end complete bikes. He was out of business in 2 years.

Yet, no one has stepped in to fill the niche. People want to spend money, just put the merchandise in front of them. I feel modern bike shops are virtually useless to people who've been riding more than a few years and don't want a Trek or Specialized. 

I was close friends with another shop owner 5 years back. More of a current bike shop. He liked the high end stuff, rode high end stuff, but wouldn't sell it in his shop. Was convinced no one would buy it. He too is now out of business. He'd sell them a bike, make a few hundred if lucky, then never see them again.

I'm convinced that if someone would cater to the people who are not beginners, and who are comfortable buying $600 wheel sets, and $500 cranks, they'd do very well. Charge regular prices, not inflated, but fair prices. Dabble in mail-order on the side, and everyone would be happy. Until I find someone that does that, internet is my only practical choice.

Like the previous poster said. If you wanted to get the new 2007 XTR stuff, and you could drive to a shop, see it sitting there all shiny and pretty, smell it, caress it...and you could take it home right there and put it on that night - wouldn't you do that? Many of these high end parts are basically the same price everywhere. Jenson, PricePoint, Performance, you pay about the same anyway. Wouldn't that be a bike shop that you'd go to all the time to see what's new? 

My rant is over. Until then, the local shops will get zero dollars from me - they just don't sell products that a enthusiast experienced biker needs. As far as service goes, I've learned to do my own bike maintenance as well. 16 years of biking and racing kind of helped in that department.


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## markf (Jan 17, 2007)

the problem at least at most shops, is that without a huge population base you can't sell enough higher end stuff to really compete. plus 90% of those customers know what they want, and will ***** until you match the stupid low margins of the internet. that's part of why no one does it.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Those aren't the customers I'm talking about. I'm talking about the ones with money to spend, and don't like waiting. I don't know where these super low prices on the internet are, I've checked, XTR shifters are basically the same price unless I go ebay, in which case I'm S.O.L. if I need warranty work or have a problem. I won't buy expensive stuff on ebay for that reason. I really want a new flite saddle, but I'd love to see one first. I'd buy it if I could find one locally. 

A new shop opened nearby last month. Just this afternoon I wandered in as I had the wife and kids with me eating nearby. A local 7-Eleven pro owns it. It was all Trek, and the only saddles they had were Bontrager...tires? cheapo tires. Bummed me out. I was hoping for something to buy. They had $30 Discovery jerseys for my 3 year old, and cute mini gloves for kids, and pink water bottles...that they have.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

It's that way here, too. If the shop sells Trek, then every accessory is one of the Trek brands (Bonty, etc). Same with Specialized. It's turning into The Gap.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

Jensonusa = my bike shop. 

Has anyone ever been to santiam cycles? jensonusa's two store locations? I'm sure these are the good ones. I'm lucky to have a few pretty cool local bike shops. River City Bikes, Fat Tire Farm and Santiam Cycles are my buddies.


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## flatulentfox (Aug 27, 2004)

*my bike shop is awesome*

ive been wanting to brag on them for a while, this is a good excuse to do so...

when i started college, i went to the nearest bike shop needing a crank puller, which they had and sold to me for a reasonable LBS price. i continued buying parts there and became good friends with everyone over the years. i ride with them from tiem to time. i now live an hour away, and am willing to drive there for anything. they are worth it. last year, he let me take a frame home, build it up and ride it a week to see if it fit me before i bought it. "just ride it a bit, brign it back if it dosent fit." i picked up 4 tubes for 11.50 the other day. i certainly spent alot of money on over priced stuff at first, but once they realized i was a legit customer who wasnt there to rip THEM of, they started treating me like a real customer and they didn't try to rip ME of. its a two way relationship...


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Jwiffle said:


> We steal the valve caps to look good. We put them in a container on the counter, and give them out for free. That way, people think we are great for giving out the caps for free!


brilliant!


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## flowtron (Nov 17, 2006)

jonny290 said:


> Trying to get a hanger for my new frame - it's a one-off hand me down, so I brought it to the LBS to try to get a derailer hanger. I haven't gotten ahold of the seller to find out who made it, I know it's worth at least a few hundred bucks, though.
> 
> mind you this frame weighs next to nothing and is obviously not a mass market bicycle
> 
> ...


Sooo, did you ever find that hanger?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

flowtron said:


> Sooo, did you ever find that hanger?


If you have trouble finding one you can try these guys online.

http://www.derailleurhanger.com/


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## Brutal Cycles (Feb 16, 2007)

*Too many words.*



curtlo-dork said:


> People used to drive from.. Wisconsin, ...on a saturday just to see this stuff in person - then walk out with a maxed out credit card...


Indeed.  Straight Up was a primo shop. Turin in Evansville used to be really nice too. Saw the first bike I knew I'd cut my legs off just to ride at that shop. A gleaming Mountain Goat Deluxe. It's taken me 12 years, and probably cost me twice as much as it would have new, but I finally got my brand spankin new 1993 Goat Deluxe. And it is indeed the nicest bike I have ever seen or touched.

But yeah, that was before the widespread consolidation and outsourcing movement we've all been sold today as "progress". Giving third-world laborers the dry shove so we, the wealthiest nation in the world, can put more in our pockets without doing any manual labor for it. This used to be a nation of sculptors and artists, of designers, engineers, and craftsmen. No longer are these disciplines valued. These days, the nation has decided to become a nation of middle-management leeches skimming off the top of others efforts (if you can still consider 500% "skimming"). Working with ones hands is for poor people it seems.

A mere 15 years later, American consumers main concern (even pride) is in being cheap. Second concern is getting any thing that's "good enough". Hence, nearly all high-end bike shops are either dead and gone, or have ditched mountain biking to ride the Lance wave, which has brought the Road sport to where mountain biking was during its early 90's boom. But of course, the Lance wave is starting to wane... kind of a sad evolution of an industry/sport.

Sometimes I like to be idealistic and think there are still enough people oput there to support innovative small companies focusing on quality handmade work, but there are half a dozen or so of those companies left, and none of them are thriving because of our sport.

Boone Technologies
Phil Wood
Chris King
Paul Component Engineering
Thomson
White Brothers
White Industries

That's roughly about all that's left of the hundred or so US makers there were a decade ago. Even these decent ones that survived the "stupid-light" fad (which is enjoying its second coming fueling the high-end road market. can't wait to see how that ends...) have realized there's no $ in most mountain bikers pockets. The shop I grew up in, now turned road, said it best when I presented a crankset, which I'd just put $50k into developing: "Nice mountain bike cranks. Mountain biking's dead, baby. Get some road cranks made by gigantex in China, with a nice 50% margin, and we'll talk." I talked to over a hundred shops, and got essentially the same response out of all of them. Talked to a few other mfg's at length, and there was the idea that if you're going to get into MTB, consider it an expense, simply to increase your brands exposure. Be surprised if your MTB projects ever find themselves in the black.

In talking with a shop recently, I got, "Why on earth would we order the nicest rigid fork in the world, (a Steve Potts Type II), when we can make five times the money selling a $20 chinese fork with a Bontrager or Pace sticker on it for the same price? Hell, the Chinese are willing to work for three bucks a day, so it's their own damn fault. Anyway, most riders will never know the difference."

The will of the sport is in the minds of its riders, and at the moment, it seems its riders are primarily concerned with getting "good enough", and hanging on to their money. Having their cake, and eating it too, inevitable consequences bedamned.

This probably sounds more bitter that it is, but if it's going to continue this way, I'm not going to keep dedicating my life to trying to fix it. I'll probably just go out and ride my Goat Deluxe in the forest instead.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*This one:*



Dekes said:


> yeah but i live in Belgium. Shipping will be huge? Besides, my bikeshop guy lets me use his when i need it.
> 
> However, do you have a picture of yours?


https://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=15314&subcategory_ID=4221

It is occasionally on sale for $30. $40 right now.


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## needmorealtitude (Nov 15, 2005)

That's a very funny story!


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## Dekes (Jan 3, 2007)

flatulentfox said:


> ive been wanting to brag on them for a while, this is a good excuse to do so...
> 
> when i started college, i went to the nearest bike shop needing a crank puller, which they had and sold to me for a reasonable LBS price. i continued buying parts there and became good friends with everyone over the years. i ride with them from tiem to time. i now live an hour away, and am willing to drive there for anything. they are worth it. last year, he let me take a frame home, build it up and ride it a week to see if it fit me before i bought it. "just ride it a bit, brign it back if it dosent fit." i picked up 4 tubes for 11.50 the other day. i certainly spent alot of money on over priced stuff at first, but once they realized i was a legit customer who wasnt there to rip THEM of, they started treating me like a real customer and they didn't try to rip ME of. its a two way relationship...


Same here, i always go to the same shop and the owner charges me lower prices than what i can find on the internet.


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## iscri (Apr 4, 2007)

Back in the day I used to steal valve caps with my friends... In fact I still have a bag full of caps. I still kinda get the temptation to steal them when I see a nice shinny set on a car.


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## Guest (May 20, 2007)

*unplugged*



eggraid101 said:


> "the old bolt switch."


Just be glad they had a rusty old bolt.
I went to a SpiffyLube place & waited in line.
I hopped out of my car...the guy in the pit yells... 
"Hey! bring that Mustang back, I forgot the oil plug".  
I looked at the garage exit and there was a shiny new line of oil leading outside.


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## kaikara (Jul 18, 2006)

If you think you have it bad come up to canada when it comes to the cost of bike parts. I grew up with my dad owning a small retail business and own a business myself. I love to help out the local mom and pop type places but up here their prices are just crazy. I had to get pads for my hayes nines yesterday and couldn't wait for an online order. I called a couple places and the cheapest I could find was 27.00 dollars (canadian) for the semi-metalics. I looked online and found them for 7 bucks US. Considering the Canadian dollar is at the highest level against the american dollar (92cents) in 30 years I felt like I was being bent over by the LBS. But i needed the to ride on our first long weekend of the summer so I went and bought them. Next week I am going to order a couple sets of all the consumables to have onhand so this doesn't happen again.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

curtlo-dork said:


> Don't know about everyone else, but I've been in every bike shop within a hour radius (and there are many, I'm in the western burbs of Chicago). None of them have any cool parts at all. Most are now Trek/Bontrager/Lemond/Fisher dealers, and every accessory known to man has the trek name on it. Bike shops are becoming company stores. Boring. The bike shops seem to cater to people wanting a new bike, if not, then not much reason to go in there anymore. _Do that many people still just go in and buy a complete bike?_ I have never done that in my life. I buy individual components and build up...then swap and buy more. There isn't one single shop that caters to me. I spend tons of dough on bike parts, yet I absolutely have no choice but to go mail order.


Well, you may be able to expect an upper-end only shop in a large-population center like Chicago, but not in most of the country. The problem with stocking a lot of high-end stuff is that much of it justs ends up sitting on the shelf until is marked down at the end of the model year--when the profit from having it in stock is long gone.

Not to say that a shop can't do a better job of catering to experienced riders, but to answer your question, yes, many people, including experienced riders DO buy a complete bike. It is usually the most economical way to go, even if you end up selling off most of the parts to purchase the parts you really want on it.


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## macaw (Feb 11, 2007)

With LBS folks on the thread let me ask you your opinion. I bought two bikes this weekend and one shop staff presented a form, after I bought the bike, wanting me to initial and sign in abought eight places. The language was around me promising to maintain the bike and not sue them if I crashed and burned. I declined to sign it which caused the manager to be summoned.

I explained to him that I came to buy a bike and not enter into a contract and I didn't want to encourage contracts and litigation and all that stuff we have too much of already. He wasn't happy about it and wrote "Customer Will Not Sign" on the contract but it was too late for them anyway as I had already paid and was walking out and he didn't want to process a refund (like carding someone when they have two sips left in their beer).

Anyway the next day when I went shopping for a much pricier bike ($4000ish) I just went to another dealer of the same bikes to buy it so I wouldn't have to deal with the issue. I got to thinking that if I had bought online nobody would send me a stack of disclaimers to sign and mail back -- why should the LBS do that? A few months back I had to buy my unicycle online because a LBS with the right models wouldn't sell it without a big ol' stack of disclaimers. This trend sucks if you ask me.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

the waiver or liability sounds absurd to me. You don't have to sign waivers when buying lawnmowers. You are probably a lot more likely to hurt yourself with a lawn mower or even a ladder than a bike. I would've returned the bike at that point and go take my business elsewhere.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

That's pretty standard, a lawsuit would sink 99% of shops out there. That is there because it has happened before. It does not exclude the shop from negligence, but keeps them safe if your stupid and litigious. That's today's world, sorry. And I'd guess your receipt/money exchange for your lawn mower/ladder implies a similar contract.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

G-reg said:


> That's pretty standard, a lawsuit would sink 99% of shops out there. That is there because it has happened before. It does not exclude the shop from negligence, but keeps them safe if your stupid and litigious. That's today's world, sorry. And I'd guess your receipt/money exchange for your lawn mower/ladder implies a similar contract.


thankfully Canada isn't as lawyer happy as the neighbors to the south of us. I couldn't possibly imagine having to start to sign waivers. Not too long you might see someone sue Coca-Cola for making them fat.


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## Jareth (Jul 28, 2006)

Cheers! said:


> thankfully Canada isn't as lawyer happy as the neighbors to the south of us. I couldn't possibly imagine having to start to sign waivers. Not too long you might see someone sue Coca-Cola for making them fat.


They wouldn't, THey already lost to McDonalds.

Three shops around me. One sells Trek, one sells Specialized and Rocky Mountain, and the other Raleigh. None of them are that cookie cutter. Though, at the Trek one I was treated like a criminal for knocking my wheel out of true. Its not like I tried to bend it.


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## Mrwhlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Just remember the door swings both ways.

The wife of a riding bud took her bike into a large, respected, local, shop after her brake pads pressed together from squeezing the lever with the wheel off. Their mechanic declared she'd need an entire, new, caliper and pads to fix this. I guess they lost their flat-bladed screw driver that day - idiots.


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## Sisco_28601 (Mar 16, 2007)

G-reg said:


> That's pretty standard, a lawsuit would sink 99% of shops out there. That is there because it has happened before. It does not exclude the shop from negligence, but keeps them safe if your stupid and litigious. That's today's world, sorry. And I'd guess your receipt/money exchange for your lawn mower/ladder implies a similar contract.


Pretty standard? I recently bought a new rig and wasn't asked to sing any kind of waiver. Maybe it's because I've been a customer at that LBS for a while.

I find that idea totally absurd too anyway. I suppose car dealers will be doing that next... ut:


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## markf (Jan 17, 2007)

we've never even thought about such a waiver. we say thanks and come back for your free tune up in about 90 days.


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## scorpionwoman (Jul 7, 2006)

Mrwhlr said:


> I guess they lost their flat-bladed screw driver that day - idiots.


Where were hers??


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

We had the silly waiver when I worked at Performance. THEN we got a new waiver for people to sign even just to take a bike out for a 5 minute test ride! pretty silly.


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## anthonys (Jan 22, 2004)

velocipus said:


> Where did you learn so much about fitting shoes?
> 
> I am humbled by your apparent knowledge of the mating of shoes and feet. If you're ever looking for a job in NorCal look me up!
> 
> Seriously, Sidi seminars are informative, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone in the bike industry mention Morton's Neuroma... I don't even know what that is.


Careful what you wish for, it might come true!

I made it my business to know. Every winter I look for training opportunitites for my staff, and this year I decided to do a big push into feet. So I went to Serotta fit school, I went to SBCU, and I spent some time talking with a podiatrist.


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## crashedandburned (Jan 9, 2004)

Sisco_28601 said:


> Pretty standard? I recently bought a new rig and wasn't asked to sing any kind of waiver. Maybe it's because I've been a customer at that LBS for a while.


I've never known a shop that would require someone to sign something like that, but I can understand why in this sue happy society we live in. The LBS where I work doesn't require it.



Sisco_28601 said:


> I suppose car dealers will be doing that next... ut:


Actually, a lot of them already do. I can't remember what they're called but basically you have to sign a waver stating that you will not sue them and any disputes you have that can't be resolved between you and the dealer will be settled by a third party......of the dealers choosing.


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## ilostmypassword (Dec 9, 2006)

G-reg said:


> That's pretty standard, a lawsuit would sink 99% of shops out there. That is there because it has happened before. It does not exclude the shop from negligence, but keeps them safe if your stupid and litigious. That's today's world, sorry. And I'd guess your receipt/money exchange for your lawn mower/ladder implies a similar contract.


you guys are nuts over there.... contracts & law suits to buy a bike.... *shakes head* .. and you talk of freedom... ha!


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

anthonys said:


> Here's a few tales from the crypt, though.
> 
> A week or so ago I had a guy come in looking for shoes ... He appreciated my service but wanted to save 10 bucks.


What a d!ck. There's a reason I don't miss working retail.



anthonys said:


> Also the other day I approached a couple of guys looking at high end mountain bikes and they looked at me and said, "We want to talk to someone about mountain bikes, but YOU don't look like that guy."


What, were you all decked out in Assos gear and a Lance Armstrong replica jersey or something?



anthonys said:


> Oh and then there are the constant stream of peopole who accuse us of stealing their valve caps.


Huh? I mean, _Huh???_ :skep:


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## Otter (Feb 2, 2004)

The form is called a "Binding Arbitration" form and actually is a pretty good idea for BOTH parties. Long story short is it takes lawyers out of the process (no lawyers = less chance of frivolous lawsuits) and you go in front of a mediator (former judge's usually) and air your differences. In most cases the awards tend to be larger and in favor of the plaintiff/customer but you don't get the obsurd jury judgements (my kid popped his tire and wrecked causing him to scratch his knee, now give me $100,000).


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## sparrow (Dec 30, 2003)

Valve cap "theft": I think it is fairly common for seasoned mechanics to just throw away presta valve caps when airing up tires for a customer. They are not needed, but to prevent a tube from puncturing itself while in your Camelbak or seatbag. Being used to Schraeder valves which can gunk up with dirt/mud on autos, customers think the cap is needed, something they notice.


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## Mrwhlr (Sep 16, 2006)

scorpionwoman said:


> Where were hers??


So many ways I could go with this answer......

Most likely the mechanic was homosexual. Otherwise, I'd expect him to lose a couple finger nails spreading those babies open without a screwdriver.


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## crashedandburned (Jan 9, 2004)

Otter said:


> The form is called a "Binding Arbitration" form and actually is a pretty good idea for BOTH parties. Long story short is it takes lawyers out of the process (no lawyers = less chance of frivolous lawsuits) and you go in front of a mediator (former judge's usually) and air your differences. In most cases the awards tend to be larger and in favor of the plaintiff/customer but you don't get the obsurd jury judgements (my kid popped his tire and wrecked causing him to scratch his knee, now give me $100,000).


I guess I got the idea of it wrong then. I always firgured it was a way to keep the customer from getting the dealer to uphold their end of the deal. i.e.: tranny drops from normal driving while still under warrenty and dealer won't honor it or says some small part that costs $$$$$$ is the one part not covered BS. Thanks for the info.


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

ilostmypassword said:


> .. and you talk of freedom... ha!


... ...


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm missing where the outrage is coming from. If you bought a complete bike from a LBS, you initialed here and signed here saying cycling is dangerous and if the shop can't be held responsible if you wrench on you own bike and ride down the center of the highway. Sounds like a small business protecting their freedom to me...but whatever.


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

Wait. Are you saying they make caps for valve stems? What next, some special part to plug the ends of my handlebars?


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## Sisco_28601 (Mar 16, 2007)

G-reg said:


> I'm missing where the outrage is coming from.


I wouldn't call that an outrage. The risk as I see it would be that an LBS could add some fine print I don't bother reading that would waiver them of all responsibility. Lets face it, they put the bike together, if they overlooked something they should stand behind their work.

Anyway, I have all good things to say about my LBS so I'm just ranting over where we might drift some day... rant over... :thumbsup:


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

It does not absolve the shop of negligence, even if they slip something in the fine print. It protects the shop from your negligence. Here's the only thing I could find on the internet, of the 3-4 shops I've worked in and most I've been to otherwise have used damn near this very form. Sorry for the quality.


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## jonny290 (May 8, 2007)

flowtron said:


> Sooo, did you ever find that hanger?


Yes sir, I most certainly DID, with the help of derailleurhanger.com. They looked at my pics, concurred that the #67 hanger was the best match, and it was PERFECT. I freaked out cause it didn't fit at first, then I realized that the Rhinoline was sprayed in the dropout as well. Scrape scrape scrape and it clicked in like it was made for the bike.

So, yeah, consider this a glowing endorsement of derailleurhanger.com. I ordered late on Friday night/Saturday morning, and it was in my mailbox today. Amazing.


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## xcguy (Apr 18, 2004)

*I know what this is all about anthonys*



anthonys said:


> I know, I know, we all love to bag on the LBS. Those money grubbing, brick and mortar scumbags.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I haven't even read this thread yet but I know why you're posting and I sympathize. I've also been shopping at your store since forever. Now to go back to the beginning and see what the world thinks of your story.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

jonny290 said:


> Yes sir, I most certainly DID, with the help of derailleurhanger.com. They looked at my pics, concurred that the #67 hanger was the best match, and it was PERFECT. I freaked out cause it didn't fit at first, then I realized that the Rhinoline was sprayed in the dropout as well. Scrape scrape scrape and it clicked in like it was made for the bike.
> 
> So, yeah, consider this a glowing endorsement of derailleurhanger.com. I ordered late on Friday night/Saturday morning, and it was in my mailbox today. Amazing.


Score another one for online stores. 
:thumbsup:


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## bs101 (Feb 6, 2004)

waivers exist because of this. Look for the May 25 2006 entry. waivers are silly, but not compared to this.

Anthonys - sorry to hear about you're internet freak incident. It's not right.


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## PAmtbiker (Feb 2, 2005)

*My LBS is great...*

I even get a discount because I'm a loyal customer. That is why I go there... much more fun than any online store, super-knowledgeable, and if they don't have the part I need they can order it pretty fast. And where else could I get a set of Crossmax SLR's (brand new, in box, unopened, wheel bags and all accessories included) for $800??? Not anywhere online... I like my LBS


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Since I've been sticking up for the shops, heres some trash talking. I just got a shiny new Phil Wood track cog for my fixie. My half assed home made chain whip just wasn't getting the job done so I went to the nearest shop, there are only two to choose from in the armpit of TX I'm living in at the moment. I take my rear wheel in and this dude who looks like the owner of the comic book store from the Simpsons gives it a try with a nice Park Tool chain whip. I've never seen someone struggle so much with a simple tool. After some grunting and groaning on his part he flips the wheel back at me and says "no way, have a nice day sir." He was so embarrassed and frustrated that he didn't know how to use a chain whip that he actually shooed me out of the shop. I went to the other shop in town and they spun it off, no problem-no charge.


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## Trail Punk (May 12, 2004)

*Air shocks have caps*



Melt said:


> what the hell kinda noobs actually have valve caps on their bikes


I assumed that's what Anthony was talking about...maybe I assumed too much.

Anyway, I always keep them tight...is it easy to get a replacement valve cap for a Fox air shock?

Haven't lost one yet, but I've lost lots of other things.


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## SFBMRC (Oct 29, 2006)

Almost all the shops in my area have customers sign the waiver form with the purchase of a bike. Those waivers actually come with the owners manuals for the bicycles but may shops including ours have the waiver printed on the same sheet as the invoice.


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## Evil Patrick (Sep 13, 2004)

G-reg said:


> I'm missing where the outrage is coming from. If you bought a complete bike from a LBS,
> 
> [snip]


*CHRIMINEY! WAKE UP! *

*As was already stated time and again, this wasn't a complete bike!

The bloody valve caps were missing!

Almost unrideable! And seriously dangerous!*


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Otter said:


> The form is called a "Binding Arbitration" form and actually is a pretty good idea for BOTH parties. Long story short is it takes lawyers out of the process (no lawyers = less chance of frivolous lawsuits) and you go in front of a mediator (former judge's usually) and air your differences. In most cases the awards tend to be larger and in favor of the plaintiff/customer but you don't get the obsurd jury judgements (my kid popped his tire and wrecked causing him to scratch his knee, now give me $100,000).


I love when non-lawyers give legal information. Arbitration in no way excludes lawyers, and the vast majority of cases that are arbitrated are done so by attorneys. I would love to see where you get your evidence that "in most cases the awards tend to be in favor of the plaintiff/customer." You have also mixed arbitration and mediation, two entirely separate processes.

Arbitration = a private trial, often with streamlined rules of procedure, limited discovery, and limited motions. Arbitration can be binding or non-binding (advisory).

Mediation = the parties sitting down with a mediator who attempts to bring the parties to a voluntary resolution. Mediation is very effective given the high costs and risks associated with taking cases to trial.


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## rocks'r'friends (Mar 30, 2007)

I as at my lbs yesterday and they just put up as new pricing sign. It read;

"Repairs $35/hour
With you watching $45/hour
With you helping $90/hour
Ps the mechanic who works for free and lends out his tools if off today."

Made me laugh.


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## Sisco_28601 (Mar 16, 2007)

rocks'r'friends said:


> I as at my lbs yesterday and they just put up as new pricing sign. It read;
> 
> "Repairs $35/hour
> With you watching $45/hour
> ...


That's $45/hour to get hands on training at bike repairs...  a little pricey, but not so bad... :thumbsup:


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## Padre (Jan 6, 2004)

chequamagon said:


> i had a guy this week give me a 15 minute lecture on the merits of silk sew-ups. it was surreal at points.


It's too bad he wasn't trying to lecture you on the merits of the eyeletless rim...


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## sunnyracegirl (Apr 11, 2004)

rocks'r'friends said:


> I as at my lbs yesterday and they just put up as new pricing sign. It read;
> 
> "Repairs $35/hour
> With you watching $45/hour
> ...


LMAO! That's GREAT.

/works in a shop too


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## applegreenheckler (Feb 26, 2005)

rocks'r'friends said:


> I as at my lbs yesterday and they just put up as new pricing sign. It read;
> 
> "Repairs $35/hour
> With you watching $45/hour
> ...


They should give a $5 discount if the customer is involved because it will take at least 2x as long.

That sign is awesome, wish I woulda thought of it.


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## bigdamo (Jun 11, 2004)

ilostmypassword said:


> you guys are nuts over there.... contracts & law suits to buy a bike.... *shakes head* .. and you talk of freedom... ha!


You know there crazy you should come back to the forum where you know it's safe:thumbsup:


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## crashedandburned (Jan 9, 2004)

rocks'r'friends said:


> I as at my lbs yesterday and they just put up as new pricing sign. It read;
> 
> "Repairs $35/hour
> With you watching $45/hour
> ...


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

That's funny. Actually, We DO have a guy that comes in and works for free. He works just for the employee discount. Doesn't have a regular time he comes in. Just whenever. I usually put in about 2 evenings a week. Sometimes more if asked or I have some extra time to kill.

We were really busy last night and I swear that about a dozen people brought bikes in and asked us to put air in tires for them. :skep: WTF!?!? Buy a pump people!


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

I've seen versions of that sign before. There is usually a extra charge for "If you worked on it yourself."


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## markf (Jan 17, 2007)

yeha, i've seen similar signs at car repair places, usually with a $300 if you worked on it first as the final punchline.


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## hazza man (Dec 4, 2006)

The bike shop i go to is really good compared to others in the area. Much better range as they focus on real mtbers. Also cause i know someone who works there i get good discounts including %25 off the last bike i bought from there.


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## zeroe (Apr 13, 2006)

markf said:


> yeha, i've seen similar signs at car repair places, usually with a $300 if you worked on it first as the final punchline.


I'm afraid I may have inspired that sign in my younger days. Oh, the times I had to walk over to my mechanic's with a shoe box full of bits and ask him to put them back together for me.

"But it came apart _so_ easily"

Now I've learned there are some things with which I just shouldn't meddle.


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## Stumpy_Steve (Aug 18, 2006)

Astroguy said:


> I want to support the local bike shops, I really do, but when I get blatantly ripped off it really gets to me. Example for the day, generic Shimano derailleur housing I can buy in bulk at $1 ft. from several places on the internet. That means the bike shops can probably get it even cheaper direct from the distributor or Shimano, right? But lets assume they get it for $1/ft. also. WHY is it necessary to mark it up not 100%, not 200%, but 300% to $3/ft? I don't have a problem paying extra for service, but please be reasonable and at most charge MSRP, you'll get my business for MSRP, you won't get it for anything above that. So settling for selling stuff at MSRP is better than not selling it all, right?


Have you ever thought that these shops are only making a measely dollar or two on your shifitng housing. 300% is a hell of a lot different on a $3,000 bike than a $1 peice of housing. But go ahead, buy it online. You're probably one of the few people who actually complain about housing prices. While you're at it, complain about tube prices, and then shipping prices jenson charged you to send it, and then the crappy service you recieve after not getting your product for weeks. Come on, seriously dude. Ever wonder how much bandaids cost hospitals? Probably a couple cents, right? And if you don't have insurance, that same bandaid costs you 45$. Dont believe me? Watch season 1 of '30 Days.' Thats a markup to complain about, not about some shifter housing...


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## Stumpy_Steve (Aug 18, 2006)

curtlo-dork said:


> Don't know about everyone else, but I've been in every bike shop within a hour radius (and there are many, I'm in the western burbs of Chicago). None of them have any cool parts at all. Most are now Trek/Bontrager/Lemond/Fisher dealers, and every accessory known to man has the trek name on it. Bike shops are becoming company stores. Boring. The bike shops seem to cater to people wanting a new bike, if not, then not much reason to go in there anymore. Do that many people still just go in and buy a complete bike? I have never done that in my life. I buy individual components and build up...then swap and buy more. There isn't one single shop that caters to me. I spend tons of dough on bike parts, yet I absolutely have no choice but to go mail order.
> 
> A perfect example, was a local shop called Straight Up Cyclery. I found it in 1991 when my local bike shop never heard of the then new Answer Taperlite handlebars I saw in a magazine. I called Straight Up from a yellow pages ad, and they said "sure, we have 3 colors right here in front of me". And that was it. I was freaking out when I got there - they had everything I'd seen in the magazines, and some that was so new it wasn't even in magazines yet. They only carried high end stuff, yeti, wtb, manitou, grafton, paul, white bros., Curtlo, Crosstrak, you name it. Top of the line, big bucks components. I subsequently spent thousands and thousands of dollars over the next 10 years there. I could go in, and they'd have manitou forks 5 feet high. I could get one right there. I could get Kooka cranks in all colors, xtr stuff, tires, wheels, frames, whatever I wanted. It was like a dream. No ordering it, no waiting weeks, take it home and go. I used to hang out in there for entire afternoons just soaking it all up. People used to drive from Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, on a saturday just to see this stuff in person - then walk out with a maxed out credit card. That guy made a fortune, and through horrible management and some other crap that is too boring to go into, he had to move and become a regular bike shop selling Dyno bmx bikes and low end complete bikes. He was out of business in 2 years.
> Yet, no one has stepped in to fill the niche. People want to spend money, just put the merchandise in front of them. I feel modern bike shops are virtually useless to people who've been riding more than a few years and don't want a Trek or Specialized.
> ...


Try selling Ksyrium ES wheelsets in a shop where people barter you down for bikes at 310 plus lifetime tuneups. Unless you are living/selling in an area where demographics *SUPPORT* your 'type' of shop, you will go out of business. I don't care if you do stock every single fox fork, xtr crank (yes, in every arm length), and every single damn Campy part, you WILL sit on that inventory. And markf put it perfectly: the ones who know are more than willing to try to price match you down or else they just buy it one ebay. Ever taken a look at the new 970 xtr cranks on ebay? Go ahead, take a look... 372 USD. Wonder what they *cost* the average joe schmo bike shop? Bout 350... Yeah, and why dont you look for a new 970 rd. I found one on ebay at buy it now for 116 versus the retail of about 230. So dont gimmi bs about how you would drop another 200 cause its in front of your face, over waiting 4 days for a rear der. thats 120$ cheaper! Hell, jensons doesn't even sell it for less than 180, so your entire point about that is invalid...

Dude, selling high end in Bev. Hills or Laguna Beach is a hell of a lot easier than selling it in the suburbs of America. If the guy was making such good money doing this, and people 'came from all over the country,' I wonder why he isn't in business. Maybe cause cheap people would tell him they could get their new Manitou fork online for cheaper. And how come no-one else filled the niche, as you say, if he ws making so much money? Why not you? Why not anyone else? Cause in the end, you won't survive unless you do sell out of an affluent area where people are willing to drop coin, and not bs about price. We live in America, where nothing rules more than the ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR. And btw, your the customer we hate (and laugh at) when you don't know how to install your brand new xtr rear der. and pay us to do it... Bring it to us any time!:thumbsup:


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## ihave3bikes (Feb 24, 2007)

mine has comment has nothing to do with bikes but ill tell you anyway. i work at a 24hr bakery i work the 9pm to 5am shift 5 nights a week so right next to the toughest pub in the state i constantlt get ask for free food abused for the prises we charge for and even get death threats and this is from the people who are not drunk. we have this 1 women come in regularly always argues about prices and tries to get free stuff she finally gives in and usually payes for the cheapest thing we have a custard tart $2.60 and allways pays with a $100 note i forgot to give her the right change 1 nght missing 5cents so she came and *****ed to the boss about the 5cents and treid to get me fired the next morning so yeah i feel better now


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## skyphix (May 29, 2007)

We have two really great local LBSs here. Call me lucky. I don't know about most people, but I use the internet for research and go buy it at the local LBS. They charge slightly below MSRP, and even if I can get it cheaper online, I will buy it at the LBS. Supporting my local economy is supporting myself, and making business relationships I may need later on. 

I pretty much always buy local. I do all the research I can on what I'm buying first (unless its food or something, hah) and then go to the local store to get the locals opinion. Even if they have to order it too.


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## Acme54321 (Oct 8, 2003)

The best part about working in a shop is naming the local bike wierdos. Some of my favorites from our shop are "Road Whore", "Sofa King", and "The Missing Link."


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## Bart001 (Jun 2, 2007)

crashedandburned said:


> That's funny. Actually, We DO have a guy that comes in and works for free. He works just for the employee discount. Doesn't have a regular time he comes in. Just whenever. I usually put in about 2 evenings a week. Sometimes more if asked or I have some extra time to kill.


I've been thinking about doing that, and probably will at some point, when I'm ready for yet another road bike.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Acme54321 said:


> The best part about working in a shop is naming the local bike wierdos. Some of my favorites from our shop are "Road Whore", "Sofa King", and "The Missing Link."


LOL! Hell yes.

Normal-T

Bicycle Bob

Crazy Larry

Crazy (drunk) Phill (1)

Crazy (wierd) Phill (2)

These names aren't too inventive, but you better believe we had names for most of the regular wierdos.


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## Acme54321 (Oct 8, 2003)

I know its horrible, but we have this one guy who can't talk right. Like totally can't understand him, he has some mental issue. We call him "The eloquent Speaker." For those of you who have seen the glorious movie water world, we have a costumer with a tatoo that looks like the map to dry land, her name is obviously "Water World." I can't think of any others. At my old store we used to have a crazy that would litterally sit on our AC unit and scream at the martians, he was known as "The A/C Man"

Good times. When we see one of them crossing the road pushing a busted ass bike someone ripped them off for whoever calls not it last has to talk to them.


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

Acme54321 said:


> The best part about working in a shop is naming the local bike wierdos. Some of my favorites from our shop are "Road Whore", "Sofa King", and "The Missing Link."


We have:

True my wheel Dan. He has an endless fleet of canadian tire bikes, and always wants the rear wheel trued. if it actually is a little out, we will do it, but half of the time, the wheel is perfectly true.

Denis. He has bought so many bike locks from us. The big, heavy, chain ones too. Seems like once a week he comes in. he must have SO many keys. each lock comes with like 4 of em. We think he uses them to lock up all of his furniture or something.


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## fallen angel (Jun 18, 2007)

Ive got that thing with the decent bike shop near work (right next to it actually) and the good ones in the opposite direction, best one furthest away.

The guys near my job are amazing. They helped me all the way with my current build up. I didn't have a bb tool, so they helped me out with that, no charge. Removed links from my chain no charge, and have just been extremely nice. Ive bought a tube and some chain lube from them. I've also tipped the mechanic (kid is younger than me, maybe 18) each time he's worked on it. I think the owner (another kid, maybe about 28?) might have helped, but he's an extremely cool guy to talk to. I of course only have about $40 or so in this shop, but he let me have a cliff bar the one time I was in need. It isn't much, but that too me is a stand up jester. Kinda like having a friend that helps you out instead of a business.

Not to mention. He went waaaaayy out of his way to check and see if he could order a frame I wanted to order from them. Couldn't get it, but I would have picked it up at any price just for the time he put into it.


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

fallen angel said:


> but that too me is a stand up jester.


A jester is the guy with a funny hat who entertains nobility. A "gesture" is an action that conveys meaning.


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