# Mountain lion standoff - my birthday ride



## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Had a long week of work, knocked out a bunch of stuff. Finished up a 10 hour day today at 5pm...
Sweet, 1.5 hours before dark.
Grabbing a quick ride before driving 1/2 way home.
Head out to West fork in the mink Creek area near Pocatello.
Planning to ride a quick 9 Mile loop.
Nobody on the trails except some hikers just finishing, beautiful outside, perfect weather.
About 2.5 miles into my climb, something catches my eye to the left in the grassy field area.
I assume a deer or elk no big deal.
Look over to see a big freaking cat.
This is not a fat house cat.
This is a damn mountain lion.
I'm going to get eaten today, on my freaking birthday.
It is about 25' from me, I stop pedaling and put a foot down.
The cat continues to walk parallel with me(I'm assuming it's been watching me for some time but it's not looking at me).
Then it stops, turns, sees me, and walks towards me. Cat is about 20' away and stops.

I know you never run from these animals, do not turn your back, do not play dead. Make yourself large and loud and stand your ground.

I step off my bucksaw and put the bike between me and the cat. That's my only weapon I figure. I have a knife in the backpack but no way to get it quickly.

I yell, swear, call it names, pretend I'm a metal band singer. The cat just glares at me like I'm an idiot. Doesn't flinch.
This continues for what seemed like forever, probably about a minute or two honestly.

I lift up the rear wheel and spin the cranks, thinking the Hope hub noise will scare it...... Nope.

I try taking one step back(still facing the animal), it steps towards me. **** ok back to standing still.

In the woods you would think, rocks and sticks laying everywhere....?... The spot I stopped nothing but grass and dirt. Back to yelling, still not doing anything.

Finally the cat must have got bored that I didn't run, or it wasn't hungry. It slowly turned and walked away back into the long grass. I waited another minute or two, slowly made my way out of the general area, then finally back on bike and bombed it back to the truck.
Rocks, roots, wasn't stopping for anything at this point lol. Really glad there was nobody climbing up or they would have been swearing at me.
Anyways, I really need to figure out, bear spray maybe, or even a pistol. I'm not a gun nut by any means, but this was quite disturbing, and I spend a lot of time riding alone away from civilization.
#catsarescary
#ididntgeteaten
#needagun
#takeupknitting?
#nopicssorrywastooscaredtogetcameraoutofbackpack
#needsabeer


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

At least you had a bucksaw, to make yourself look bigger!

We pretty much all carry bear spray up here in AK. It's very effective. I had to use it on a moose that cornered and charged me. Worked great.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Wow! great nature encounter. Glad he didn't attack, you didn't happen to soil your chamois did you? 

If I remember right you moved up to Coeur d'Alene Idaho, correct? Quite a few big cats and bears out that way. Bear spray would be your best defense and probably something we should all carry out in the western states.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Wow, that's quite a story! I sometimes envy you guys with all the large animal sightings but not this time. We don't have to worry about animals around where I ride other than the occasional black bear if you head up north.

> I yell, swear, call it names, pretend I'm a metal band singer.

Iron Maiden Run To The Hills?


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## MinesPunk (Jul 25, 2009)

This is what I carry for my neighbors ******* Doberman: https://www.amazon.com/Pepper-Blast...6447190&sr=8-1&keywords=kimber+pepper+blaster

Haven't had to use it yet, and hope I don't, but last time I had my kid in the hiking backpack his dog charged me and stopped 3 inches short of my sons foot, dog was growling, snarling, and snapping non stop. Supposedly the Pepper Blaster will work well in these situations and doesn't face the blowback issues of typical pepper spray.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

Good story Shark. All the more reason for loud hubs!! 

We've seen and heard plenty of coyotes and coy-wolves in our neck of the woods. We've seen bears in other regions and provinces (northern Ontario, B.C and Quebec). But we kept riding and they kept their distance from us. I've never seen a mountain lion, and I believe that they stalk. If you were to get attacked by one at all, you probably would never see it coming. The main thing is to be alert during dawn/dusk because that is when wildlife tends to be more active.


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## duneracer (Sep 27, 2009)

Very cool, albeit scary experience. I actually live on Mink Creek in Pocatello and there are a lot of mountain lions around here but I haven't been unlucky enough to cross paths (to my knowledge) with one. My neighbor is a mountain biker as well and he crossed paths with three mountain lions a few years ago pretty close to the 2.5 mile mark on West Fork, right near the small square concrete structure near the top of the climbs.

I'm glad the cat wasn't hungry! I kinda hoped all cats in our area were a little more afraid of humans!


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

Nothing like celebrating the day you became alive than being alive! Happy birthday, to still be living is a great gift, mountain biking is just the icing!


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

20 or 25 feet is too damn close. Can I repeat that? TOO DAMN CLOSE! Glad kitty decided to toy with you mentally and not physically, although it's disconcerting that it had no fear response to a human. 
#ThatCatWasTooDamnClose

p.s. Glad you have a great birthday story to tell


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## JCWages (Jan 26, 2015)

Great story! You did all the right things.


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## MountainHead (Apr 4, 2012)

I wish I could have watched you haul ass out of there! I bet that was a swift ride!


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

BTW Happy Birthday Sharky
Glad you didn't end up a meal


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

That sounds about right based on my own experience.

What? No pics?


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

It's a good thing it wasn't hungry... or my house cat... you would've been toast... just for amusement.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Yeah, I think if I lived up in the PNW, I'd get myself some bear spray sat the minimum. I see some people carry it in their water bottle cage and others have carriers that hang/fit on the handlebars. I personally have a Benchmade knife with a 4.5" blade that I carry clipped in my pocket and is always accessible. I know I probably couldn't keep from getting bit in the process but stabbing that blade into anything but a bear would cause some serious hurt. I also occasionally carry a compact Glock 43 9mm in my pack. Once again, just as long as I had a opportunity to get to it, it would be effective on almost anything but a bear that I might run across.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

Shark said:


> I try taking one step back(still facing the animal), it steps towards me. **** ok back to standing still.


That particular part of the story gave me chills. Glad there was a happy ending. Whether you bring anything else or not, sounds like bear spray is a no-brainer.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

This happened this summer...

Jogger Fights Off Cougar On Popular NM Hiking Trail

and so did this....

Poodle mauled by cougar on Winsor Trail - The Santa Fe New Mexican: Local News

as well as this...

http://forums.mtbr.com/new-mexico/mountain-lion-cub-spotted-winsor-trail-1015399.html

And this was last winter...

Mountain lion tracks spotted in Santa Fe

LARGE PREDATOR ALERT (and I don't mean Donald Trump)!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

beastmaster said:


> This happened this summer...
> 
> Jogger Fights Off Cougar On Popular NM Hiking Trail
> 
> ...


Yes mountain lions do live amongst us out west, nothing new here. We encroach on their territory there's going to be conflict. Just keep your wits about you and follow the rules of engagement if you do encounter one up close. Shark did the right thing and acted large and in charge by screaming and holding his bike up as a shield. Standing his ground and not running surly saved him from an attack. In addition we all out west should carry bear pepper spray. I'm as guilty as the next for not carrying it but you never know it may just save you some say. Even though the odds of an attack are huge you just never know.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

chazpat said:


> Wow, that's quite a story! I sometimes envy you guys with all the large animal sightings but not this time. We don't have to worry about animals around where I ride other than the occasional black bear if you head up north.
> 
> > I yell, swear, call it names, pretend I'm a metal band singer.
> 
> Iron Maiden Run To The Hills?


 Or some Ted Nugent? Cat scratch fever.


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## Otter (Feb 2, 2004)

Damn Shark, glad to hear everything worked out! Way to keep your wits about you and what a B-day "present"! Remember the good ole' days in Indiana when having a bobcat hiss at you was scary!?


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## BCsaltchucker (Jan 16, 2014)

I live in the cougar (mtn lion) capital of the world.

pet 'trail' dogs are:
1/ a strong attractant of cougars
2/ a tasty easy wimpy snack for cougars
3/ increasing the risk of you being attacked by bear or cougar

we have a one local mtn are (not far from the mtn bike park area) that is so rife with cougars that they had to bad pet dogs from the trails for a couple years. The cougars were killing to many of them right in front of the owners, and using the pet dogs as a fond part of their diet. Bears are also known to get annoyed by dogs and then give chase as you dog runs back to you ... human mauled.

If you love them, leave the pet dogs at home imho.

pepper spray. I like it and I often carry it. However it has its shortcomings. There was recently a mauling in my area and they guy got a solid mist of bear spray that the bear charged right through and kept going till it mauled him. the man then waited a while, the bear disappeared so he started hiking back ... and got mauled again 10 minutes further down the trail. wow

Yosemite expressly prohibits bear spray. must have good reason to do so, and they do have problem bears there

(just saw a big black bear climbing over my pickup a couple days ago. I am carrying bear spray in my yard now, LOL)

we can't really carry a gun mtn biking here in BC, but a friend of mine used to carry a .45 mtn biking in WA state. though he was mauled by a much more likely critter: himself when he crashed a motorcycle on the highway.


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## Mentor (Aug 14, 2015)

Awesome story; for the kids one day!

How many PRs did you break on the ride out of there?


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

BCsaltchucker said:


> Yosemite expressly prohibits bear spray. must have good reason to do so, and they do have problem bears there


Interested so googled... MyLifeOutdoors: Yosemite Bear Spray Ban - Why The Park System in Wrong


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

beastmaster said:


> This happened this summer...
> 
> Jogger Fights Off Cougar On Popular NM Hiking Trail


Interesting that the article notes the mountain lion may have been protecting a kill that it had stashed nearby, rather than stalking the hiker as a potential meal.



> After feeding, Mountain Lions separate the internal organs from the main carcass and hide them at a distance before covering both with branches, soil, and leaves. Mountain Lions do not dig holes in order to bury their kills. They will behave with carcasses they scavenge on in the same way they behave with a kill.
> 
> Mountain Lions will return to the kill repeatedly until the meat is gone or, especially during the summer, until the meat has spoiled, at which time they will hunt again.


 Text here.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

are u supposed to eye ball them? i thought when you do that the cat feels like you want to fight?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BCsaltchucker (Jan 16, 2014)

JACKL said:


> Interested so googled... MyLifeOutdoors: Yosemite Bear Spray Ban - Why The Park System in Wrong


meanwhile here in BC the Cdn nation parks service ranger was sure to recommend and check that we had bear spray before starting the West Coast Trail trek. And we did encounter multiple bears. Unlike Yosemite, nice to have bear lockers in camp. In Yosemite we encountered a ranger who was careful to check us for disallowed bear spray .. but of course the rangers all have a pistol (I imagine more for the human animals).


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

My wife says I need a GoPro....
My parents say I need a gun.

It's shopping time this weekend lol.


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## mlrs_27m (Mar 10, 2016)

Thats exactly why I carry a g26 when I ride.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

Glad you are Ok, Shark!

Several years ago a friend was on a bow hunting trip. He had an elk permit and was hunting solo in an remote, high altitude location in northern New Mexico. Along with his bow, he always carried a .45 cal side arm.

While setting up his camp one evening, he had this sensation that there was something behind him. He was on his knees lighting a camp stove when he looked over his shoulder to find a large mountain lion about 15 feet behind him in a crouched position, ready to attack. He slowly pulled out his pistol, pointed it from his waist and fired. The whole time the cat didn't move at all. He killed it.

Afterward, he immediately broke his camp, packed all his gear, and hiked out. When he got into cell phone range he called the appropriate Forest Service personnel. He stayed in his truck that evening. In the morning he went back to the original campsite where he killed the cat with the Forest Service staff member. They inspected the whole site and took extensive notes on the incident, making the determination that he had done nothing illegal or wrong in killing the cat under those circumstances. The FS allowed him to keep the cat's remains. (He has an awesome mountain lion carpet in his cabin!)

He had hunted all over the intermountain west for many years prior to this incident and never once had he seen a mountain lion in person or had he ever felt that he was, in fact, the prey!

Take this story as you wish. I thought I would share it.


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## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

Wow what a story. Happy birthday Shark and I'm glad you are okay.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

Quite an encounter, thank you for sharing.

My wife and a friend have spotted a mountain lion three times on the trails just 1/4 mile from our back door here in Ogden. Most of my rides start before dawn, end shortly after the sun has come up and go along the trail where the cat has been spotted.

I normally carry a very small can of pepper spray, but wonder if it is really effective against the cats.

I also wonder if I would even see an attack coming. I picture it going down like this...


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

Pepper spray will do one of two things. Make it very angry, or make it run away.

1 to 10, 230 grain hollowpoints, traveling at 1000 feet per second will do one thing, stop it.

Thankfully neither was needed!
Having seen a bear in the woods last year, with my wife and 3 year old, only about 75' away - it's amazing how your senses IMMEDIATELY become hypersensitive to ANYTHING, and you will do one of two things. Analyze and respond, or freak out.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

beastmaster said:


> Glad you are Ok, Shark!
> 
> Several years ago a friend was on a bow hunting trip. He had an elk permit and was hunting solo in an remote, high altitude location in northern New Mexico. Along with his bow, he always carried a .45 cal side arm.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing, that story reminds me of an encounter I had many years ago. I was Elk hunting with a buddy way up in the high country of Colorado. We 4x4'd in then hiked a couple of miles to our destination and set up our tent. There was zero snow on the ground when we went to bed. We woke up to a foot of fresh powder. As we set off on our hunt we discovered fresh mountain lion tracks about 100' out. The lion had circled our camp a couple of times then left. We never saw him but talk about a hair raising feeling, I could almost feel he was watching us.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

brentos said:


> I also wonder if I would even see an attack coming. I picture it going down like this...
> 
> View attachment 1099941


LOL
That's about exactly how it would happen.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mlrs_27m said:


> Thats exactly why I carry a g26 when I ride.


To shoot yourself in the head with?

A G26 is no good for wilderness. You're better off carrying any one of many different pieces of survival material rather than a subcompact gun intended for close encounters with people.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

DethWshBkr said:


> Pepper spray will do one of two things. Make it very angry, or make it run away.
> 
> 1 to 10, 230 grain hollowpoints, traveling at 1000 feet per second will do one thing, stop it.
> 
> ...


As someone who has actually used bear spray, it overcomes their senses and irritates them to the point where all they want to do is get rid of the burning, so they'll perceive the danger in your direction because that's where the spray came from, and run away. Hollowpoints, while great for humans with thin skin, aren't the best for animals where you really need penetration, not expansion. Thick skulls, muscles and sinew are typical of large animals and usually require some significant penetration, in the lower 48, 10mm to 357 magnum or so. .45 is usually a pretty marginal caliber as far as this is concerned and just because it worked once, doesn't mean it's a good idea to bet on. The idea that you'll be able to squeeze off a bunch of rounds after you get your gun out with your head in the mouth of a lion is far fetched. Although it's not a bad idea to have a weapon in areas that are densely populated by predatory or big aggressive animals, you then have to make said weapon accessible, which means chest holster, not backpack or something ridiculous like that.

The problem is so many people immediately go for "gun", because they believe it's a solution. They fail to really think about the realities and practical issues surrounding them. Everyone wants a quick fix and they figure having a gun will do it. From my experience, no, it won't. I only had seconds to get my spray to stop a charging moose and it wouldn't have worked if it was in my backpack. I've also watched a police officer unload his 9mm (could have been a .40) into a moose and then go back into the car and get the shotgun with slugs to put it down completely.

The main point is just because you have a gun doesn't mean it's going to make you safer or be helpful. The old "I'd rather have it" argument is just dumb when you think of all the stuff you could have instead that would be much more likely to help you out in a bad situation. And all that said, I'm not against guns or carrying them in the wilderness, I just want people to have reasonable expectations and do it responsibly. The guy that says he's going to take is G26, subcompact 9mm, for wilderness defense, is IMO the example that is not responsible.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Jayem, nicely said and my thoughts exactly. Bear spray in a location quickly accessible is your best defense against all large aggressive animals. Nothing wrong with a large caliber semi auto postal but you better have it accessible and be a fast accurate shooter. Bear spray you just point in the general direction of the animal once close enough and it does its job.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Coincidence, I stumbled upon this video. Though not Mountain Lions, African Lions. I wonder how long it will be before we hear of this guys inevitable demise by cat. ut:


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## BCsaltchucker (Jan 16, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Jayem, nicely said and my thoughts exactly. Bear spray in a location quickly accessible is your best defense against all large aggressive animals. Nothing wrong with a large caliber semi auto postal but you better have it accessible and be a fast accurate shooter. Bear spray you just point in the general direction of the animal once close enough and it does its job.


I see bear spray sold in teh US in small cannisters. But around here it is only sold in the large 350ml sizes. I think the logic is you will likely need more than just one shot to stop an angry bear. Like the guy recently mauled where the bear was not stopped at all by the one shot spray.

I used it once on a vicious dog attacking wife and I once. Worked really well for that, and only a tiny puff of it.


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## Once_Upon_A_Time (Aug 13, 2004)

Did you report this incident? This awfully unusual behavior for a mountain lion, unless it was sick. I don't want it killed, but just for public safety? And Happy Birthday btw.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Once_Upon_A_Time said:


> Did you report this incident? This awfully unusual behavior for a mountain lion, unless it was sick. I don't want it killed, but just for public safety? And Happy Birthday btw.


That's what happens to lions that act this way, they kill them, just saying.


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## chestont (Aug 4, 2009)

Bears never make me worried when I'm out riding or hiking. However, Rattlers and Big Cats make me worried. Great write up, gave me chills. I'm glad to see you're all good too. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

chestont said:


> Bears never make me worried when I'm out riding or hiking. However, Rattlers and Big Cats make me worried.


Rattle snakes have always given me fair warning while hiking and are no concern whatsoever (for me) when riding. I have had a bear charge me though and I guarantee that would worry most anyone.

Shark's cat encounter would have freaked the $hit out of me.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Excellent story...felt like I was there!

While I've come across fresh kills and dens, in all my years I've yet to see a mountain lion. I'm fairly certain I've had one stalk me on a section of trail at least ywice. I can here it about 50'-60' feet off in the woods for about a mile but haven't seen it. This section of trail runs out into a steep cliff band where it can no longer stalk. Last time it let out a cry (I think) in the cliff band as if it were frustrated it could no longer follow in cover. Does that sound plausible or is my imagination getting the best of me?

I come across bear often, coyote, 1 coy wolf checked me out, etc but have never felt nervous or considered carrying a defensive weapon or deterrent, nor does it seen common amongst mtber's here in the PNW. Perhaps if I had a similar encounter I would feel differently.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

duneracer said:


> Very cool, albeit scary experience. I actually live on Mink Creek in Pocatello and there are a lot of mountain lions around here but I haven't been unlucky enough to cross paths (to my knowledge) with one. My neighbor is a mountain biker as well and he crossed paths with three mountain lions a few years ago pretty close to the 2.5 mile mark on West Fork, right near the small square concrete structure near the top of the climbs.
> 
> I'm glad the cat wasn't hungry! I kinda hoped all cats in our area were a little more afraid of humans!


I was just shy of that exact spot by a minute or two when it happened.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

Here, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty!!!


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I wonder how long it will be before we hear of this guys inevitable demise by cat.


Yeah, he'll get eaten. No doubt about it.

Attacks on domestic dogs:


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## DenVen1 (Dec 15, 2014)

_The guy that says he's going to take is G26, subcompact 9mm, for wilderness defense, is IMO the example that is not responsible. 
_

I disagree, If we're talking about Mountain lions and not Grizzly Bears or Moose, Then a G26 is adequate. A mountain lion is no bigger than a large dog, about 150 pounds. A G26 carries 10 rounds and should be more than enough.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

DenVen1 said:


> _The guy that says he's going to take is G26, subcompact 9mm, for wilderness defense, is IMO the example that is not responsible.
> _
> 
> I disagree, If we're talking about Mountain lions and not Grizzly Bears or Moose, Then a G26 is adequate. A mountain lion is no bigger than a large dog, about 150 pounds. A G26 carries 10 rounds and should be more than enough.


Thinking that you are going to get 9 follow up shots on a small moving target? The barrel length and grip of the G26 is ridiculous. Good for shooting in a room or that distance, but in the wilderness? You've got to be kidding me. No one that carries seriously in the wilderness is worried about having 10 rounds in a magazine. They are worried about having effective rounds that work the first time.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2016)

DenVen1 said:


> _The guy that says he's going to take is G26, subcompact 9mm, for wilderness defense, is IMO the example that is not responsible.
> _
> 
> I disagree, If we're talking about Mountain lions and not Grizzly Bears or Moose, Then a G26 is adequate. A mountain lion is no bigger than a large dog, about 150 pounds. A G26 carries 10 rounds and should be more than enough.


 Mountain Lion is a lot tougher to drop than a dog. We had a local put two round of 30-06 through one and it still climbed a tree. I'm in the 10mm/.357/.41M camp for dangerous critters smaller than bear. Just one opinion for sure, but I know a hunter who emptied a Glock .40 into a whitetail without killing it in a reasonable time (it ran off and he didn't recover it). Not comparing "hunting" to "wildlife defense", just talking about stuff that happens.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

This is so exciting!! 

Out here in California, all we hear about on the trails are "Barking Bears" and the "No speaky english wimminz" :skep:


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Forster said:


> Mountain Lion is a lot tougher to drop than a dog.


I have no doubt this is true and to put in context, watch this video. Witness how much abuse is directed at the pitbull in trying to get it off of the other dog. A guy batters it with a stick, another empties a can of pepper spray into its face and countless kicks are rained down on its body. None of this shifts its focus or causes it to interrupt its attack.

Can you imagine what it's going to take to stop a mountain lion on a mission?


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

they be cool animals.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

1843


Oh My Sack! said:


> This is so exciting!!
> 
> Out here in California, all we hear about on the trails are "Barking Bears" and the "No speaky english wimminz" :skep:


I think that's going to go right over many heads having most not frequenting the So. Cal. forum recently. :lol::lol:

For those in the dark, go here >> http://forums.mtbr.com/california-socal/two-bears-barked-me-approach-mt-wilson-chantry-1023596.html


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

Forster said:


> Mountain Lion is a lot tougher to drop than a dog


probably true, but I do know a very successful cat hunter who uses a .22 mag pistol for shooting his cats. Granted the cat is treed by the dogs, but you get the idea. shot placement.

If you have deer out west, you have mountain lions. Those 2 animals just go together.

shark
you just need the wolf and than you have ran into bears, dogs and cats.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Mountain lions aren't just an out west thing. We are under an advisory to not allow small children or dogs outside alone as a mountain lion was spotted barely 150yrds from my house.

Look at Fulton Illinois on Google maps. Nothing but cornfields in any direction accept up along the river.

How he made it this far south (second one in less than a year) without being spotted till now is beyond me. I'm guessing he was forced to get out of the corn fields (following deer) because it's harvest time.

I'm mad cause I can find him, want to see him. Plus the last one that made it to the town 10miles east, animal control killed it. Don't want that crap happening to this one too. Beautiful creatures.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Hunting mountain lions is in my opinion not very sportsman like. I come from a hunting background and my dad has shot most of the big game animals in the USA. I haven't hunted for many years and have chosen not to after growing up doing it. Hunting mountain lions involves having a group of several dogs. They catch wind of one or you see tracks you let the dogs lose. The dogs track the cat as the hunter follows the barking dogs sounds. The dogs eventually tree the cat then the hunter walks up and shoots the now trapped cat. Not a sportsman like way to hunt.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

I much prefer seeing these guys.....


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> The dogs track the cat as the hunter follows the barking dogs sounds.


And/or gps collars. You can just hang out at the truck quaffing bud lights until they stop moving, the cat will be patiently waiting in the tree for the hounds get bored and wander off.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I too am in the "use of bear spray" camp. Given mountain lion behavior, at 20 to 30 feet, if all I had was a pistol, my inclination would be to target the ground in front of the lion, as I think that would be enough. Given the excitement and small frontal cross section, I'm dubious of my ability to put a round effectively on target. There may be others out there with a different mindset, and that's fine, too.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

I my self am not a hound hunter, but I do know quite a few. To each his own on the subject. 

To the guy that had one close to his house. Don't worry about it. 2 of the game cam shots I posted are about 350 yards from the house. I seen one in the field below the house a couple of weeks ago. Your children will be fine, but pets that stray will go away.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I think the reality is if you were to be attacked by a Cougar it's going to be from behind and a surprise. Your best defense may well be painting eyes on the back of your helmet. Barking bears on the other hand...forget about it.

Treeing cats & bears just to kill them for sport is subhuman. I have similar thoughts for using bait. I think most people's perception of apex predators is more cattle lobby propaganda than factual.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

WHALENARD said:


> Treeing cats & bears just to kill them for sport is subhuman.


I don't really see the difference between that and any other type of hunting. In a tree or on the ground, either way it has no chance against a bullet to the head.

I personally wouldn't hunt at all, but if you are going to kill animals I don't see how making it tricky it legitimises it?


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Mr Pig said:


> I don't really see the difference between that and any other type of hunting. In a tree or on the ground, either way it has no chance against a bullet to the head.
> 
> I personally wouldn't hunt at all, but if you are going to kill animals I don't see how making it tricky it legitimises it?


Harvesting, consuming, and using every part of the animal I would consider a very legitimate practice indeed. Terrorizing an animal for hours just to kill it for the thrill & utilize no part of the animal makes one a sociopath in my book. Very black and white subject matter here. Not sure how one can't distinguish between the 2.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

WHALENARD said:


> Harvesting, consuming, and using every part of the animal I would consider a very legitimate practice indeed.


If I lived in 1876 I would agree. And if people still want to hunt animals for the fun today that's up to them but to suggest it's necessary is a bit silly. Very few people 'need' to hunt in today's America, you know that.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> to suggest it's necessary is a bit silly. Very few people 'need' to hunt in today's America, you know that.


Not necessary but if you harvest 200 pounds of meat that's 200 less pounds that needs to be produced on the feedlots and sold in grocery stores. It does seem pretty sick (IMHFO) to take a life only for the thrill and a pic and then just let the flesh rot.

More on topic though a lot of lions are hunted and killed because we have stolen their habitat and they have nowhere to live.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Mr Pig said:


> If I lived in 1876 I would agree. And if people still want to hunt animals for the fun today that's up to them but to suggest it's necessary is a bit silly. Very few people 'need' to hunt in today's America, you know that.


Yeah...no doubt. With a populous 75% obese and the same medicated what we "need" to do is advocate for furthet distancing ourselves from our food sources.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

J.B. Weld said:


> Not necessary but if you harvest 200 pounds of meat that's 200 less pounds that needs to be produced on the feedlots and sold in grocery stores. It does seem pretty sick (IMHFO) to take a life only for the thrill and a pic and then just let the flesh rot.


I'm not being judgemental. I wouldn't hunt a big cat for either reason but if others want to do it that's up to them. I just fail to see what difference it makes how you do it? If you decide, for whatever reason, that you want to kill a mountain lion whether you use dogs, trap it or whatever, the thing is still dead.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

WHALENARD said:


> Yeah...no doubt. With a populous 75% obese and the same medicated what we "need" to do is advocate for further distancing ourselves from our food sources.


Methinks a rather over simplistic elucidation on why you Yanks are all fat f*****ds ;0)


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Mr Pig said:


> Methinks a rather over simplistic elucidation on why you Yanks are all fat f*****ds ;0)


Hahaha...fair point!


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## TOPFLiTE1994 (Oct 16, 2016)

Fmf!


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

sorry shark, I was not trying to turn your thread into a predator hunting thread.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Thanks a lot Tim

Got a quick backside 257 loop today, slimy roots, saw an evil looking rabbit, I think it was stalking me.... Haha!


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## Boyd (Oct 18, 2015)

Anybody have some spray mounted on the front harness of their pack? Is it heavy or cumbersome?
As night riding season gets closer I have been thinking about getting some.

Friend of mine has seen multiple lions on on his trail cams up in the laguna mountains (east San Diego). That stuff is potent. Had an old bottle of bear spray leak in my closet. Stuff was gnarly!


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Mentor said:


> Awesome story; for the kids one day!
> 
> How many PRs did you break on the ride out of there?


Haha fastest time down that trail for me....19/337 not bad!


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## Scottie5150 (Mar 10, 2004)

Harold said:


> That sounds about right based on my own experience.
> 
> What? No pics?
> 
> View attachment 1099858


****!

Sent from the UnderWorld via Nexus 6P ?


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

Shark said:


> Thanks a lot Tim
> 
> Got a quick backside 257 loop today, slimy roots, saw an evil looking rabbit, I think it was stalking me.... Haha!


Oh No!
Better summon the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch!


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Boyd said:


> Anybody have some spray mounted on the front harness of their pack? Is it heavy or cumbersome?
> As night riding season gets closer I have been thinking about getting some.
> 
> Friend of mine has seen multiple lions on on his trail cams up in the laguna mountains (east San Diego). That stuff is potent. Had an old bottle of bear spray leak in my closet. Stuff was gnarly!


you might be able to rig it to your bars, like one of those really large horns that you squeeze. but would suck if you crash and got sprayed.

there are plenty mt. lions in Lagunas and Cuyamacas, they used to tag and track some don't know if they still do. i rode out there a ton when I lived there years ago but never saw one. saw tracks once. you can find reminders in the memorials to people killed out there, 1 maybe 2 if memory serves me. one poor lady was bird watching. i think there is a memorial bench up around Azela Glen.

there is a lot of deer out there or used to be, so overall you should be fine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

if you guys are wanting to pack pepper spray, look into frame bags. revelate designs has a bag called a feed bag that would work. mounts by stem handlebars, another would be the gas tank that fits on top of the top tube. The bear spray could fit in those bags easy.


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## TX_Shifter (Aug 14, 2007)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Hunting mountain lions is in my opinion not very sportsman like. I come from a hunting background and my dad has shot most of the big game animals in the USA. I haven't hunted for many years and have chosen not to after growing up doing it. Hunting mountain lions involves having a group of several dogs. They catch wind of one or you see tracks you let the dogs lose. The dogs track the cat as the hunter follows the barking dogs sounds. The dogs eventually tree the cat then the hunter walks up and shoots the now trapped cat. Not a sportsman like way to hunt.


I agree! But there is worse and this kind of hunting sickens me (since we're talking about hunting).

Texas Exotic Hunting - (855) 920-9926 - Texas Hunting, Exotic Hunting Guide Service, Exotic Hunts in Texas - Home

=======
Note to Shark, Glad you made it safe and then its on your bday!! But I wanted to say thateven a loud roaring chainsaw did not back down this mountain lion, even after few hits on the mighty cat finally walked away. So your bike hub would of been morse coat to this aggressive kitty. Great share


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

Damn, that's as scary a cat story as I've ever heard from a biker. Glad your birthday ended well. Definitely one you will never forget!


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Hill People makes several models of chest rigs.

Hill People Gear | Real use gear for backcountry travelers

I ride alone 99.9% in a area heavily populated with cats, and have seen two, but I startled them and they ran off


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

Chest holster specifically for bear spray here.

_Discover _magazine's excellent article on being attacked by a mountain lion:

The 4 Stages of Fear: Being-attacked-by-a-mountain-lion edition

In this care, the mountain lion did not pounce from behind.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

Very cool story, Shark -- glad you're okay. I have yet to see a live mountain lion in the wild, but I know they've seen me. That was highly unusual behavior for a cat; as they are normally one of the stealthiest creatures in the forest and prefer not to reveal themselves (until they're on your back).

I wanted to put in another pitch for bear spray. As someone who has hunted for nearly my whole life, and someone who has also received a facefull of bear spray -- I fully believe that the spray is far more effective than a pistol.

A small caliber pistol is a very weak weapon against a large animal with its adrenaline up. You might get extremely lucky and hit the animal in the head, which would definitely put it down. But people are not as good with pistols as they think they are, especially in an emergency situation. A hunting rifle is infinitely more powerful than ANY handgun that would be practical to carry while mountain biking. I have witnessed on at least half a dozen occasions a large animal (usually elk) surviving a "kill" shot for several minutes. I took down a bull one time that had been shot approximately 4 minutes prior to me, over a mile away. That bull had run over a mile with no lungs intact. The point is, a large animal with its adrenaline up can live for quite a while even with extreme injuries. Considering a mountain lion, and having examined a large one (dead), a human would have no chance in a fight against one. If it wants to kill you, you're history.

I ride and hike in an area heavily populated with black bears, and depending how far I travel south of my home, grizzlies (they are increasing in population rapidly, and venturing closer and closer to my hometown every year). Anyway, I ride with a chest harness that holds my spray. **It is hardly noticeable when riding.**

Again, having taken a facefull of the stuff -- I fully support its use as protection from animals. The stuff is horrible, to put it lightly; and its easy to use/very hard to miss. An animal who receives a full blast of it to the face just won't be able to think about anything but getting rid of the burning, let alone _see_ its previous target. And the best part is, the animal will get over it eventually; it won't receive an injury making it even MORE dangerous to someone else, and will develop a healthy fear of humans. Finally, it will get another chance at life. A win/win for everybody.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Vader said:


> I ride alone 99.9% in a area heavily populated with cats, and have seen two, but I startled them and they ran off


If you throw a ball of wool at them you can be gone before they know it.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

1: cat was probably waiting for you to take a selfie. I kind of can't believe you didn't

2: happy birthday, and congrats on not being eaten! Since it ended well, it is a cool story you'll probably be telling the rest of your life.

3:


Shark said:


> The cat just glares at me like I'm an idiot. Doesn't flinch.


as someone who lives with several cats (and one cougar): that's their reaction to most everything I do. You get used to it.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

cookieMonster said:


> Again, having taken a facefull of the stuff -- I fully support its use as protection from animals. The stuff is horrible, to put it lightly; and its easy to use/very hard to miss. An animal who receives a full blast of it to the face just won't be able to think about anything but getting rid of the burning, let alone _see_ its previous target.


I once had pepper spray (or mace?) sprayed in my face and I concur that it is horrible and I was incapacitated, however I also once emptied a can of bear spray directly into a dogs face at point blank range who was in the process of tearing another dog apart and it didn't faze or slow it down in the least.

I still would recommend carrying pepper spray in lieu of a pistol for most situations but it's not infallible.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2016)

Mr Pig said:


> If you throw a ball of wool at them you can be gone before they know it.


I think there's a market for gray socks stuffed with cat-nip and with a yarn tail on the back. It would save you from one Cougar or a whole pack.


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## outside! (Mar 15, 2006)

*Canine distemper.*

Glad you are OK Shark. It does not surprise me that the lion stepped towards you when you stepped back. I have often wondered if I would have the courage to take a step towards a mountain lion. On the one hand, it may think you are crazy enough to attack it and it would decide you are not worth the risk. On the other hand, it may just piss it off. I do think that if you saw a lion getting ready to pounce on you, running towards it while screaming bloody murder may be the best course of action since you would definitely not be acting like prey.

I read a report that big cats that get infected with canine distemper lose their fear of humans and act erratically. The fact that the lion let you see it makes me wonder if it was healthy.


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## jfudge02 (Mar 24, 2016)

In Idaho that would scare me. In so cal not sure why but I'd kinda love to see one


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

jfudge02 said:


> In Idaho that would scare me. In so cal not sure why but I'd kinda love to see one


A mountain lion is a mountain lion is a mountain lion. They don't discriminate between locations.

Broken record here >
Bottom line is they are unpredictable but rarely attack humans. When in areas they inhabit its best to be aware of the best defense in an encounter. Yelling and making yourself look larger will deter them in most cases. Holding your bike up as a shield makes you look bigger and also helps to shield in case of an attack. Even having bear spray, gun or a knife may help in an attack. Best proven option is bear spray.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

I haven't encountered one, but a cat will have two choices, walk away, or be my dinner and a new rug! My weapons are right on my pack straps in the front, seconds for me to obtain. Now I have encountered black bears, one as close as 25 feet, no cubs, just sniffing my scent. I stepped between my bike and the bear and yelled. The bear just looked confused and walked away. Prolly thinking dumb human...


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## jfudge02 (Mar 24, 2016)

Black bears are the most docile creatures ever! Just don't feed them or get between the mom and cubs (standard for any animal really) 

As far as the mountain lion comment I made, sorry but I stand by it-- a mountain lion in the hills of Laguna or whiting will be much more adapted to seeing humans (and knowing it's number 2 in the food chain) than will one in the Idaho wilderness.

I know people have seen them and been threatened in so cal before blah blah blah. People have also spontaneously burst into flames so I've heard.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

^I find that reasoning backwards. Habituated animals are far more dangerous/unpredictable & likely to attack than their more wild counterparts. Most animal attacks ( & all lion attacks I can think of) are in areas where civilization has pressed into habitat. Exactly like the deadly lion attacks in CA


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Double post


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

WHALENARD said:


> ^I find that reasoning backwards. Habituated animals are far more dangerous/unpredictable & likely to attack than their more wild counterparts. Most animal attacks ( & all lion attacks I can think of) are in areas where civilization has pressed into habitat. Exactly like the deadly lion attacks in CA


This ^

There are more lion attacks in So. Cal. than anywhere else simply because they have less room to get away from humans. They get more stressed in areas like that. In the mountains of Idaho or wherever the attacks happen less frequently. Not because there are less lions [which there isn't] but more because there are less humans. And more room to escape human conflict.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

jfudge02 said:


> Black bears are the most docile creatures ever!


Tell that to the one that charged me, no cubs and I wasn't feeding it. Kittens might be one of the most docile creatures ever, bears? Nope.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

J.B. Weld said:


> Tell that to the one that charged me, no cubs and I wasn't feeding it. Kittens might be one of the most docile creatures ever, bears? Nope.


Plus, they've been known to hold grudges.


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## jfudge02 (Mar 24, 2016)

Lol, well there's always the chance I guess. I've encountered them so many times. The worst was one that knocked down a whole tree to steal my months worth of lunches. Other than that no complaints.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Plus, they've been known to hold grudges.
> 
> View attachment 1105580


DJ, that's you holding up the dead bear, right?

Sure does look like you. :lol:


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Hawg said:


> DJ, that's you holding up the dead bear, right?
> 
> Sure does look like you. :lol:


Yeah right, you did see the bear in the background, correct?


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

I see it DJ, even if Hawg is too blind to notice the truth!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

net wurker said:


> I see it DJ, even if Hawg is too blind to notice the truth!


That looks like the one in the Revenant.


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## Goatrak (Jan 13, 2004)

I usually ride with my dogs (in CO), which gives me some sense of comfort, not so much from a protection standpoint, but to alert me to big cats. Case in point, the one time we had a brief encounter, they hid behind me...all in all that was good.

For protection, I do carry a big can of bear spray, mainly so I have some options. The trick is having it handy. This company makes a cozy that allows you to carry a big can in your bottle cage. If you are on your bike, you can't get much handier than that.

BearCozy bear spray carrier for bikes


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Crane Issues Indiana Mountain Lion Warning - TheIndyChannel.com

This is not terribly far from the biggest/best riding area in the state. Can't wait till I can start looking for mt lion tracks on the local trails. We've got a bear in the southeastern part of the state that's been hanging out for most of the past year, too (not far from another nice trail system), and it doesn't look like it'll be leaving anytime soon. It seems to have found a home in a large wildlife refuge.


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

Get a big air horn.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Harold said:


> Crane Issues Indiana Mountain Lion Warning - TheIndyChannel.com
> 
> This is not terribly far from the biggest/best riding area in the state. Can't wait till I can start looking for mt lion tracks on the local trails. We've got a bear in the southeastern part of the state that's been hanging out for most of the past year, too (not far from another nice trail system), and it doesn't look like it'll be leaving anytime soon. It seems to have found a home in a large wildlife refuge.


No sweat Harold, out west they are all around us and rarely seen by humans. Just school yourself on how to act in case of a close encounter. And if you are that stressed about it, get some bear spray for more peace of mind.

It helps to ride in pairs as well.

It pays to choose a slower riding partner than yourself.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> No sweat Harold, out west they are all around us and rarely seen by humans. Just school yourself on how to act in case of a close encounter. And if you are that stressed about it, get some bear spray for more peace of mind.
> 
> It helps to ride in pairs as well.
> 
> It pays to choose a slower riding partner than yourself.


I've had mt lion encounters in the past (Utah). My education and work history involves a lot of wildlife biology, so I don't have a problem there. As I said, I'm excited for when there are enough that I'm likely to encounter signs of them on a ride.


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## luvdabeach2001 (Nov 11, 2011)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> It pays to choose a slower riding partner than yourself.


^this


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Harold said:


> I've had mt lion encounters in the past (Utah). My education and work history involves a lot of wildlife biology, so I don't have a problem there. As I said, I'm excited for when there are enough that I'm likely to encounter signs of them on a ride.


Oh sorry, I thought you were an Indiana boy. In Colorado I'm always on the look out for them and any other wildlife I may be fortunate enough to come across. Makes wearing a helmet cam not a good idea with my rides. Too much constant head swivel from side to side scanning my surroundings.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Oh sorry, I thought you were an Indiana boy. In Colorado I'm always on the look out for them and any other wildlife I may be fortunate enough to come across. Makes wearing a helmet cam not a good idea with my rides. Too much constant head swivel from side to side scanning my surroundings.


I am, but that doesn't mean I've never left. 

The hills here offer lots of places where big cats can hide. We've got one trail that's pretty notorious for its tight spaces. A few years ago, there was a resident bobcat hiding under a ledge right along the trail, and it would snarl at passing riders. More than one took a startled tumble down the ravine after that.

A couple years after that, my wife was on that trail with a friend, and there was a turkey vulture hanging out at the same ledge (the top of which was right at eye level) hissing at passing riders.

I suspect the mountain lion population density here will remain pretty low for a very long time even if they do get established with a healthy breeding group. I'd expect it to be similar to the part of E. TX where I lived. There were mountain lions breeding there, but the density was VERY low. I never even saw tracks, but I knew folks who owned ranches who had seen tracks regularly over the years as the cats patrolled their territories. And considering that I have photographs of wildlife uncommon enough that most people didn't even know they existed, to not have seen evidence of the mt lion population while I lived there, I think, is telling.

I think I posted a pic from a Utah encounter of mine earlier in this thread, fwiw.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Oh sorry, I thought you were an Indiana boy. In Colorado I'm always on the look out for them and any other wildlife I may be fortunate enough to come across. Makes wearing a helmet cam not a good idea with my rides. Too much constant head swivel from side to side scanning my surroundings.


WTF,are you saying that Indiana residents are dumb, uneducated, inexperienced humans compared to everyone else???


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Harold said:


> Crane Issues Indiana Mountain Lion Warning - TheIndyChannel.com
> 
> This is not terribly far from the biggest/best riding area in the state. Can't wait till I can start looking for mt lion tracks on the local trails. We've got a bear in the southeastern part of the state that's been hanging out for most of the past year, too (not far from another nice trail system), and it doesn't look like it'll be leaving anytime soon. It seems to have found a home in a large wildlife refuge.





DIRTJUNKIE said:


> No sweat Harold, out west they are all around us and rarely seen by humans. Just school yourself on how to act in case of a close encounter. And if you are that stressed about it, get some bear spray for more peace of mind.
> 
> It helps to ride in pairs as well.
> 
> It pays to choose a slower riding partner than yourself.





Harold said:


> I've had mt lion encounters in the past (Utah). My education and work history involves a lot of wildlife biology, so I don't have a problem there. As I said, I'm excited for when there are enough that I'm likely to encounter signs of them on a ride.





DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Oh sorry, I thought you were an Indiana boy. In Colorado I'm always on the look out for them and any other wildlife I may be fortunate enough to come across. Makes wearing a helmet cam not a good idea with my rides. Too much constant head swivel from side to side scanning my surroundings.





Harold said:


> I am, but that doesn't mean I've never left.
> 
> The hills here offer lots of places where big cats can hide. We've got one trail that's pretty notorious for its tight spaces. A few years ago, there was a resident bobcat hiding under a ledge right along the trail, and it would snarl at passing riders. More than one took a startled tumble down the ravine after that.
> 
> ...





Hawg said:


> WTF,are you saying that Indiana residents are dumb, uneducated, inexperienced humans compared to everyone else???


In response to Hawg. Where in The Wide World of Sports did you see where I said that?

Looks like you said that to me.ut:


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