# How long would a Mart bike last on a good trail?



## jkoebel (Feb 3, 2008)

I was out riding Alafia today (there's a race there, FSC #4, next weekend) and a truckload of overweight ******** pulled up, a set of parents and a few kids who were each probably 30-40 lbs heavy.

They were all riding Next and Huffy and Pacific full-suspension mart bikes...we ran into them again out on the trail and none of them looked like they were having much fun.

My group and I commented on it and continued on, but I got to thinking, how long do those bikes typically survive when actually used?

Between the 6 of us who were out riding today, we had estimates ranging from one day's riding to "less than a year". Anyone have any stories?

The overweightness of the riders is actually relevant, I figure it'd be even more wear on the bikes than someone my dimensions (5'9" and about 135 lbs) for the same trail.


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## gnslr (Dec 24, 2004)

would be fun to find out, perhaps someone should buy one and test it, destroying a bike could be fun


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## mbirds (Mar 7, 2008)

Except when a broken piece of bike punctures your sac...


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

"...a truckload of overweight ********..." -- two things that go together, like peanut butter and jelly.

The thing with cycling--whether road or MTB-- is that you have to go into it with enthusiasm. Enthusiasm leads to geekiness, which leads one to read every magazine and online article they can get their hands on, learning as much as they possibly can before even buying a bike. By learning what you're getting into, you make better buying decisions, which leads to more enjoyment while you're riding.

The problem with these "overweight ********"--and, believe me, I know many of them who have gone down this same road--is that they want to save money (#1 priority), they never educate themselves on the sport, and they don't go into it as something they could enthusiastically spend every bit of their free time doing.

What happens is, they buy crap bikes, have a lousy time riding those crap bikes--both because the bikes under-perform, and because they never set them up properly; i.e. saddle too low, one-size-fits-all. Now, it's completely possible for someone to go into the sport lacking enthusiasm about it, only to end up loving it after one ride, however, when your bike sucks any bit of potential enjoyment out of it, you never really have anywhere to go from there.

I work for a company that is located just outside of the city limits, which means we end up with a 50/50 mix of small-town ******** and educated people from within the city. The more educated people, who have decided over the years to buy a bike at one time or another, have come to me and asked questions about what brand(s) to buy, where to buy them, etc. The dumbasses, on the other hand (matching the OPs description perfectly) have gone the other route: they buy an on-sale bike at Wal-Mart, have some sort of issue with it the day they buy it, then come to me and ask what they should do. My answer is always, "Take it back and go buy a real bike at [insert name of LBS]."

The conversation that follows is usually this:

"Whayle, how much is that gonna cost me?" (remember, saving money is priority #1)
"A good starting price is usually around $350-400, and make sure you get an aluminum frame, because I'm guessing you'll leave it sitting outside, which would cause steel to rust."
"$400!?! Sh!t, I already spent $75 on this one!"
"Yeah, and you got such a piece of junk that you're coming to me a day later and asking how to fix it. Besides, my seatpost alone cost more than you're entire bike."
"Well, I ain't puttin' no more money into this! A bike's a bike! And what's wrong with leavin' it outside, anyhow? When I was a kid, we always left our bikes outside, and it never hurt 'em one bit."
"I bet they were covered in rust."
"So?"

It pretty much falls apart after this, with me turning my podcasts back on and ignoring them.


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## matt1976 (Sep 9, 2007)

I read somewhere the average department store bike is ridden approximately 75 miles from store to landfill. But who really cares? This thread wreaks of elitism. I'm out.

Thanks,
Matt


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## Woozle (Jun 13, 2008)

Why diss anyone who's just out for a ride? Maybe a few of them will ride more, get stronger, buy better bikes. I spent my youth on a dept store bike that my aunt bought for me by saving every nickle she could (hey a kid needs a bike). Best bike ever


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## emtnate (Feb 9, 2008)

I'm with woozle. At least they're getting outdoors and getting exercise. 

Last department store bike I had, I was 5. It was a birthday present, which is at the end of july. The bike didn't make it to labor day before I broke the rear axle and tore up the prawls in the rear hub. So just because a toy is shaped like a BMX bike, does not mean it can be jumped like one.


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## space (May 25, 2004)

I had a friend who wanted to ride with me, this was about 5-6 years ago, at the time he told me he had never ridden off road before but that he purchased a mountain bike. When he showed up to ride he had a cheap mongose from wal-mart with the kickstand still attached. 

I had second thoughts about going out riding with him on the bike but he insisted we go riding. During that one ten mile ride he broke the pivot and completely destroyed the rear wheel when the kickstand got knocked into it.

In any case after that I helped him shop around and he ended up picking up a Trek Fuel, which he quickly learned to ride much better then I did at the time


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## pinkheadedbug (Aug 16, 2006)

When I open my bike store it's going to have a Walmart bike on the wall which has been ridden exactly as you describe, with all the failures highlighted. So if someone comes in I can show them exactly why they need to buy a real bike instead.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Single speed or internal speed hub bike on the cheap can last a whole lot of time.

I am very happy with my cheap steel fixie on road. When I put clipless pedals on it from my "real" bikes its cost doubles, but I have a load of fun riding it on bike paths.

What I have problem with are "full suspension" bikes from Walmart and such places, with big bold letters "DOWNHILL" on it, which would disintegrate properly if actually ridden at speed off-road. This is just a frigging scam.


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

Curmy said:


> What I have problem with are "full suspension" bikes from Walmart and such places, with big bold letters "DOWNHILL" on it, which would disintegrate properly if actually ridden at speed off-road. This is just a frigging scam.


Don't most/all of those fat-tired, dual-suspension Wally bikes have a label on them clearing stating they're not intended to be used off-road? I know I've seen the label on at least a couple, but I think I read somewhere that they all have them. Talk about a scam...


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## Roswell52 (Mar 25, 2008)

matt1976 said:


> I read somewhere the average department store bike is ridden approximately 75 miles from store to landfill. But who really cares? This thread wreaks of elitism. I'm out.
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt


+1 on that. Also wreaks of racism. Make the same comment about certain other ethnic riders and get deleted out instantly.


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## 2ndgen (Jun 6, 2008)

Roswell52 said:


> +1 on that. Also wreaks of racism. Make the same comment about certain other ethnic riders and get deleted out instantly.


+2...Speaking as one of those "*other*" ethnic riders, I agree with you 100%. 
Maybe it wasn't intentional from the OP. 
I personally try to watch what I say. 
I ain't perfect myself.

As for people using cheap bikes, so long as they enjoy them and don't hurt anyone else,
let them ride in peace. That's their introduction into the sport. He's a good dad to take his
family biking even if that's all they could afford.

My first BMX bike was a Walmart BMX Huffy. 
I rode it till I broke it then upgraded to a PK Ripper, a Sting and a pair of Mongooses.
But I'll never deny my Huffy.

That being said, riding around one's block, the bikes probably last a season,
but as soon as you take them on a trail, fugghetaboutit. 
They start falling apart after the first jump.


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## tootsjofus (Sep 13, 2005)

I doubt they will be doing Gatorback or Moonscape at Alafia. If they did I would be surprised if they don't break something the first ride. I also ran into some ******** who were having a great time out there. I even talked to them during a cigerette break. They got the bikes for a little over 100 bones and their whole purpose that day was to see how much damage they could do to the bikes. No helmets or any of that 'sissy' stuff. Hey, more power to them.

I thought it was still okay to rip on fat ********.:skep:


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## jkoebel (Feb 3, 2008)

Racism?

There was none of that present when I made the original post, I'm still unsure how it could be construed as such in fact, but that was definitely not my intent and I'm sorry if it came across that way.

And, speaking from personal experience, ******** come in all colors, just like all the other subcultures


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## pcruz8 (Jun 27, 2008)

My enthusiasm for riding fails long before a "mart bike" does. 

As for the ******* comment, I agree with jkoebel. Case in point, me. Filipino ******* from Iowa. =)


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## axcxnj (Jun 23, 2008)

my first "mountainbike" was a $200 sports authority diamondback job.

less than 10 minutes into my first ride i tacoed the front wheel...

needless to say i didnt keep that bike much longer


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## Hopping_Rocks (Aug 23, 2008)

My 1998 Huffy lasted 10 years before I got my new bike about 3 weeks ago. It had minimal maintenance the entire time and still ran ok. My dad bought it for $100 at wal-mart. I rode it hard this summer and really got into biking, that's when I started doing research and discovered this site. Maybe X-mart bikes are like playing the lottery, sometimes you get a winner, sometimes you don't.


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## Roswell52 (Mar 25, 2008)

jkoebel said:


> Racism?
> 
> There was none of that present when I made the original post, I'm still unsure how it could be construed as such in fact, but that was definitely not my intent and I'm sorry if it came across that way.
> 
> And, speaking from personal experience, ******** come in all colors, just like all the other subcultures


IMHO, I disagree with you. Describing them as a truckload of fat ******** is racism. Ain't buying the all colors defense.


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

Roswell52 said:


> IMHO, I disagree with you. Describing them as a truckload of fat ******** is racism. Ain't buying the all colors defense.


That's not racism, it's prejudice.  Come live in Missouri for awhile and you'll see it has merit.


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## Brodino (Sep 15, 2008)

This is beginning to sound like a roadie thread! 

Message to the MTB Elites: 

It is hard enough to do something without someone snickering at you!


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## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

Ya'll get off us dad gum ********! We likes to have fun jest like ya'll do.


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## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

I led some guys to the trail head today. They were using "mongoose" walmart bikes. In they went. 1 hour later at the parking lot they come back out and I ask one how their ride went. "good, but I broke my chain". Actually he broke his rear derailleur but heck I dont expect him to know anyway. Case in point though. It took 1 ride (it was his first time on these trails and he was obviously new to mountain biking) to break the bike. 1 ride. And this is by no means the first time Ive seen this. I have no way to even begin to describe how crappy these bikes are. They are DANGEROUS. I think it should be illegal to sell them seeing how they are built and what not.


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## NA1NSXR (May 8, 2008)

f3rg said:


> *"...a truckload of overweight ********..." -- two things that go together, like peanut butter and jelly.*
> 
> The thing with cycling--whether road or MTB-- is that you have to go into it with enthusiasm. Enthusiasm leads to geekiness, which leads one to read every magazine and online article they can get their hands on, learning as much as they possibly can before even buying a bike. By learning what you're getting into, you make better buying decisions, which leads to more enjoyment while you're riding.
> 
> ...


F you man. Seriously, on behalf of anyone who ever just wanted to enjoy riding a bike.


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## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

By the way. The ******* syndrome? We get that here in kentucky, full force. Its bad. Worse, is when they all go down the the jumps obviously made for experts by experts and start milling around. 3 F#%ing times Ive come this close to hitting someone. Often these are kids with parents watching all the time. What part of my coming down a trail at 20mph and flying 3 feet high and 15 far over a jump is not obviously dangerous to be around? And yes, the trails are absolutely designed for this. They are even well set out of the way of the main park and have a map showing the trails varying difficulty levels. I swear Im going to need a set of brakes that dont even exist yet to keep riding in that place. Its infuriating. I have no problems with noobs but these people are DANGEROUS. Ok, just me ranting. Im done.


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

NA1NSXR said:


> F you man. Seriously, on behalf of anyone who ever just wanted to enjoy riding a bike.


 Hey, I'm just telling it exactly--EXACTLY--like it is. Ten frustrating years I've dealt with this same b.s. and it never changes. They're just as bad when it comes to computers. Unfortunately, I'm also known as the computer geek, so guess who gets to hear about their problems when they buy a used Pentium II from their mom's neighbor out in the boonies who told them it worked just fine. Somehow, they never seem to be short on funds for beer money and NASCAR t-shirts (maybe because they skimp on important purchases like bikes and computers?).

For the record, I'm not against people buying what they can afford and working toward something better. It's when people take the easy--read: cheap--way out, end up with problems, come to me for advice, and then ignore me when I try to help them that bugs the crap out of me.


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## Roswell52 (Mar 25, 2008)

f3rg said:


> That's not racism, it's prejudice.  Come live in Missouri for awhile and you'll see it has merit.


*That's not racism, it's prejudice*
Definition from Wikipedia....Racism has existed throughout human history. It may be defined as the hatred of one person by another -- or the belief that another person is less than human -- because of skin color, language, customs, place of birth or any factor that supposedly reveals the basic nature of that person.

I should probably let this go, but I really think you need to change how you feel about this. I don't mean any disrespect, but that statement you made is flat wrong.

I have lived in Georgia and Tennessee for 20 years, and I guarantee you that the term "*******" is offensive and racist. Just like all the other racial slurs and insults used on non-whites.

Today's news!......







Ol Murtha just takes one foot out of his mouth and inserts the other. What a maroon!


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## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

Yep, elitist. I thought mountain bikers were cooler.

Most here on the forum are probably like me... started bmx as a kid. So we already went through the beginner stuff like having a cheap bike, or repeating a section of trail three times and showing off for friends/parents. I think we've all been there, but forgot now that we're more interested in stringing together a sweet run (for free-riders, etc.) or keeping a nice heartrate (for xc riders, etc.).

I see overweight kids on cheap bikes and have faith in kids again since here are finally some that pulled themselves away from the freakin' xboxes.

By the way, not sticking up for the department store bikes, but complaining of a broken chain or derailleur is a bit picky. My g/f rode her $500.00 Trek I bought for her about 50 yards on a paved bike path before she broke her chain. She didn't know anything about changing gears and that can be hard on a drivetrain. Or maybe the new cables stretched a bit and got things out of adjustment. Either way, I don't consider it her fault or the bike's fault. When I started mountainbiking, I went through a couple of derailleurs also. I think it's normal for newbs to not realize you need just a bit of respect for the derailleurs.

Anyway, concerning the OP's question... I'm curious also, but not curious enough to try one and risk hurting myself or having to walk 3 miles out of a trail.

It's a shame cheap bikes don't have to follow some kind of stress testing to help protect new buyers that don't know better.


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## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

Dude really get over it. Ill tell you when I see someone on a walmart bike I tell them the best trails and send them off. If I get a reason I suggest they get a nicer bike, but I have never said thier bike is crap. However, I live in Kentucky (dont come from here) and let me tell you, not all are ******** here. Lets say about half arent. But at least the other half is, and believe me they _are_ ********. This is the problem with the world, people get offended at anything. If your not a ******* then ignore it, whats the big deal? And if you are your probably not even reading this. Like I said, not all kentuckians are ********, but seriously, your gonna get offended because one guy called people from your region (and not even directly) ********? Seriously get over it. Ive traveled to certain parts of the world where Ive been labeled and had all kinds of weird things said about me. Not exactly racism, but definetely bious. I really couldnt give a damn, I know who I am and dont care what others think. So really, this whole racism argument dosent belong here, and I am dead tired of hearing people get offended by things here (hear it every damn day from weak minded fools). So lets stop and go back to hating walmart ok?


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

I love that people are objecting to the term "*******" when you see all kinds of hillbillies who love to point out that they're a *******. Whether it's a sticker on their clapped out Chevy pickemup, or a confederate flag tshirt with the term emblazoned on the front and back.


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## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

So true.


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## 2ndgen (Jun 6, 2008)

jkoebel said:


> Racism?
> 
> There was none of that present when I made the original post, I'm still unsure how it could be construed as such in fact, but that was definitely not my intent and I'm sorry if it came across that way.
> 
> And, speaking from personal experience, ******** come in all colors, just like all the other subcultures


That's why I gave you the benefit of the doubt before I judged J. 

And with your 2nd line, I was going to state that myself.

Racism? Maybe a strong choice of words. 
But again, we have to be careful how we speak today. 
Something that's innocent to one group could be offensive to another.


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## 2ndgen (Jun 6, 2008)

pcruz8 said:


> My enthusiasm for riding fails long before a "mart bike" does.
> 
> As for the ******* comment, I agree with jkoebel. Case in point, me. Filipino ******* from Iowa. =)


LMAO!

Me too!

They used to call me the Puerto Rican ******* because I rode an '87 Ford F-250 with a 12" Skyjacker Lift and 42" Gumbo Mudders and because I only wear Carhartt!

In P.R., we call them "jibaros" or "campesinos".

"********" or "hillbillies".

My family are all proud jibaros.

Matter of fact, they called themselves that proudly.


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## 2ndgen (Jun 6, 2008)

Hill_Lover said:


> This is beginning to sound like a roadie thread!
> 
> Message to the MTB Elites:
> 
> It is hard enough to do something without someone snickering at you!


*It goes both ways HL...*


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## 2ndgen (Jun 6, 2008)

Jim311 said:


> I love that people are objecting to the term "*******" when you see all kinds of hillbillies who love to point out that they're a *******. Whether it's a sticker on their clapped out Chevy pickemup, or a confederate flag tshirt with the term emblazoned on the front and back.


*Yeah...they like it. So be it.

But here's proof that if you just google hard enough...*:lol:

*Hey...to each their own!

The trails are for everybody.* :thumbsup:


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## 2ndgen (Jun 6, 2008)

Wheelspeed said:


> Yep, elitist. I thought mountain bikers were cooler.


Hey WS,

I thought Roadies were all butthoes and that MTBrs were all cool. 
What I've found is that you'll find biking elitists in both camps unfortunately.

Still, have to say, most bikers are cool period. 
Out of the thousands that lurk, 
only the most vocal actually post something.

It only takes a handful to sabatoge a thread and turn it into something else. 
But hey, it's like real life.

Best that can be done is to use the "ignore" option 
and enjoy the posts that contribute to the thread.

Ride on brother!


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## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

Roswell52 said:


> *That's not racism, it's prejudice*
> Definition from Wikipedia....Racism has existed throughout human history. It may be defined as the hatred of one person by another -- or the belief that another person is less than human -- because of skin color, language, customs, place of birth or any factor that supposedly reveals the basic nature of that person.
> 
> I should probably let this go, but I really think you need to change how you feel about this. I don't mean any disrespect, but that statement you made is flat wrong.
> ...


So are you saying that ******** are an entirely different race of people? Look, I know you are trying to stick up for ********, but I have lived in south Alabama for my whole 34 year life, and don't know anyone that is offended by the term *******. I speak true *******, and don't give a damn what YA'LL think. Now carry on, for I am enjoying this thread.:smilewinkgrin:


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## Roswell52 (Mar 25, 2008)

slowpoker said:


> So are you saying that ******** are an entirely different race of people? Look, I know you are trying to stick up for ********, but I have lived in south Alabama for my whole 34 year life, and don't know anyone that is offended by the term *******. I speak true *******, and don't give a damn what YA'LL think. Now carry on, for I am enjoying this thread.:smilewinkgrin:


Just like when brothers use the "N" word to describe each other, but try using that word yourself when talking to a black person. Same difference.

Oh Hell, I'm done with this thread, and I am going riding with my "*******" friends....:thumbsup:


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## jkoebel (Feb 3, 2008)

Roswell52 said:


> Just like when brothers use the "N" word to describe each other, but try using that word yourself when talking to a black person. Same difference.
> 
> Oh Hell, I'm done with this thread, and I am going riding with my "*******" friends....:thumbsup:


:thumbsup:


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## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

:lol: Now the "overweight" part is a different story.


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## Strafer (Jun 7, 2004)

Roswell52 said:


> Just like when brothers use the "N" word to describe each other, but try using that word yourself when talking to a black person. Same difference.
> 
> Oh Hell, I'm done with this thread, and I am going riding with my "*******" friends....:thumbsup:


Except "********" were on the other side of slavery.


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## MikeyVT (Apr 8, 2005)

They may not last very long but they could be gateway bikes.

A parents goes out and buys a generic bike for $100 for their kid. Kid starts to take it on neighborhood trails. Kid destroys bike. Parents buy good bike.


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## BRKNSPOKE (Jan 2, 2007)

I think a better question is how long will you survive on a Wal Mart bike?


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## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

BRKNSPOKE said:


> I think a better question is how long will you survive on a Wal Mart bike?


Precisely. If its well built you may survive. For a while. If its built by the kid who works there... Well, say your prayers.


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## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

I can't see a hard rider making it more than a couple of minutes without some sort of failure. Derailluer, cranks, pedals, tacos.....


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## ZQ8Dude (Oct 20, 2008)

slowpoker said:


> I can't see a hard rider making it more than a couple of minutes without some sort of failure. Derailluer, cranks, pedals, tacos.....


light riders seem to have trouble too.

I have 2 experiences with cheap mart bikes. When i was younger i had a cheapo that ran great until its forks bent like play-do on a small diameter hole in my neighbors yard.(was replacing a tree)

Then a few months ago i took an MTB class at the local college and someone brought a sports authority bike. I did what most people would do: thought the worst, said nothing, and hoped for the best. After 2 weeks or so, he went out and bought quality bike. It never had major breakages, but it seemed to jump the chain often.


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## NA1NSXR (May 8, 2008)

f3rg said:


> Hey, I'm just telling it exactly--EXACTLY--like it is. Ten frustrating years I've dealt with this same b.s. and it never changes. *They're* just as bad when it comes to computers. Unfortunately, I'm also known as the computer geek, so guess who gets to hear about their problems when *they* buy a used Pentium II from their mom's neighbor out in the boonies who told *them* it worked just fine. Somehow, *they* never seem to be short on funds for beer money and NASCAR t-shirts (maybe because *they skimp on important purchases like bikes and computers*?).
> 
> For the record, I'm not against people *buying what they can afford* and working toward something better. It's when people take the easy--read: cheap--way out, end up with problems, come to me for advice, and then ignore me when I try to help them that bugs the crap out of me.


You are missing the point so completely it is not even funny. The only bright side is that you sound pretty young, so you'll probably mature out of it. The prejudiced remarks on the other hand, are disturbing to any fair minded person and you need to stop that.

It is a good idea to really check yourself when you write posts or think in terms of "they this, they that". "They" is poorly defined in your context and suggests some pretty heavy stereotyping in your mind.

I hope it is also sooner, rather than later, when you realize that "important" purchases like "bikes and computers" aren't really that important after all.


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## bikegeekjames (Apr 19, 2007)

Possibility # 1

Any bike wouldn't get out of the store if i had my way. 
I'd cap yo ass if i knew who you were.

Possibility # 2
On the way to the trailhead. I'd run you off the road with my Vespa saving the biking world from idiots disgracing the moutainous beauty. 

Possibility # 3
Within the first 25 feet. I'd run you off the trail (either coming up or down) and you'd be maimed by my custom made body armor with razor plates (like the Shredder)

In Conclusion,
damn wal-mart.


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

*NA1NSXR*: "they" refers to my co-workers (PROUD ********, all of them, just ask any one of them), who I have dealt with--both on friendly terms and otherwise--for the previous 13--damn near 14--years. I've said nothing in this thread that I don't routinely say directly to them, and they come right back at me with "geek/nerd" and cityboy comments, as well as claiming my "Jap trap" Honda Civic "runs on rice", etc, etc.

Believe me, your sympathy for any one of them would go right out the window the first time you saw one of them take a look at any new non-white employee, look both ways over their shoulder to make sure the coast was clear, and then whisper the word n***er, or any other term they saw fit.

p.s. Tell someone who just lost all their data to a dead drive, or broke their collarbone due to a snapped head tube, that bikes and computers aren't important purchases.


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## mbirds (Mar 7, 2008)

What a bunch of *******s


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## MEWISEMAGIC (Jan 9, 2008)

Time to jiggle the handle. 
This thread just won't go down.


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## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

********!!!!! God stop getting offended by anything jesus. Sound like a bunch of girls.


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## jacob99 (Sep 20, 2008)

lol i get kind of the opposite, a couple friends of mine see how i get a flat or a bent detailer hanger and they give me a hard time about how my expensive bike breaks more than their 50 dollar POS mart bikes. My argument to them is i ride a hell of alot harder and its definitely worth if you are committed to the sport, i also ride alot less conservative doing the 4 foot drops and such when they never leave the ground.


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## ricot83 (Jul 2, 2008)

I have a buddy that I ride with that has a mongoose Full suspension bike, he bought it for like $100 at walmart I think like 5-6years ago. He has ridden trails plenty and its still going strong, though not without problems. He constantly complains about the cheap front disc brakes and how it doesn't work well, and how his "rear suspension" just finally started to work and actually soften up the drop offs and such.


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

I once tacod a rear Roadmaster wheel bunny hopping. It was pretty hilarious.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Here’s my Wal-Mart bike story.

A year and a half ago, I decided to get in shape. I was 45, six feet tall and weighed around 270. I bought a Wal-Mart mongoose, a Blackcomb. For a month or so, I rode it around my neighborhood, mostly sidewalks. It was fine for this (at least at the time I thought so, more on this later). The biggest issue with it at this point was keeping the derailleurs adjusted. It would be fine after some tweaking, but the next time I rode, it needed adjusting again. I would write this off as cable stretch, but the issues never would “go away” after a few rides. You would think with new cable stretch, the first two or three rides, and then the issue goes away.

I knew some guys who were into mountain biking, and they introduced me to real single track, very rocky and very technical. Even riding that walgoose, I was hooked! That bike made it through two and a half sessions at the mountain. First trip was about six miles. Except for shifting issues, pretty trouble free. I did notice significant out-of-true on the wheels after riding that first ride. This was the first time the bike was subjected to serious rock riding. When I got home, I trued them as best I could. No stand, just hang the bike form a car rack and spin and true.

The second ride at the mountain was about twelve miles. Again, except for shifting not so smooth, as compared to my buddies and their expensive bikes who just clicked effortlessly through the gears, the walgoose held up okay, I guess. Wheels out of whack again after this ride. Even worse than the first time.

The third ride, the wheels didn’t make it. I tacoed the rear wheel so bad that I had to push it back. Even if I didn’t taco that wheel, I still knew I was going to get a good bike sooner or later. Just from riding with guys that had good bikes, I could tell the difference. I hadn’t ridden anyone else’s bike yet, but I could tell that if I were on a good bike, this would be so much easier and a lot more fun.

I lucked out in that the Wal-Mart bike guy helped me out and let me trade my beat up rear wheel from an in-store bike, and he said he could send it back for a replacement wheel. So I put a straight rear wheel on it, and trued-up the front wheel somewhat, and was able to sell it for a little over half of what I spent on it (sucker!).

Now I have a slightly more expensive bike, and believe me it’s worth every penny! After being on a quality bike that actually fits me, I didn’t realize just how uncomfortable that Wal-Mart bike was, even just riding around the neighborhood.

I do have to say this: that Wal-Mart bike got me started. It got me back on a bike after more than 20 years, and it got me familiar and comfortable with wrenching and adjusting on derailleurs and wheels. In that regard, I don’t feel like the initial cost was totally wasted, I guess.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*When we start new riders for the High School team*

at the very first meeting we tell them not to go out and buy a Dept Store Bike (DPS). We tell the parents the same thing and encourage, beg, and cajole them to consult us on any bike purchase. In short, because of the intensity of our usage, DPS's break relatively easily, require a lot of maintenance, and cause delays in group rides. I've seen kids break them in one ride.


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## bigpedaler (Jan 29, 2007)

f3rg said:


> Don't most/all of those fat-tired, dual-suspension Wally bikes have a label on them clearing stating they're not intended to be used off-road? I know I've seen the label on at least a couple, but I think I read somewhere that they all have them. Talk about a scam...


100% right, they do.

I see both sides of this; elitism is wrong, nobody is perfect. Any one can point out a shortcoming in another person.

Having said that, I hafta say that the ignorance you run into is common -- i've spent 8 years battling it myself. I only hope that a 'decent' bike from W-M (VERY relative term!) will lead to something of real quality. I do try to steer people away from the truly crappy rides, not always successfully.


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## alm80 (Jun 16, 2006)

Even thou its tough, I believe that no man should ever be concerned how another man spends money he earned. 

Ride and let ride.


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## Giddyup Buddy (Mar 30, 2008)

My folks got my first bike for me at Montgomery Ward's. If you've never heard of the joint, it was the lowest of the low department store back in the 80's. I lived in a very wooded and hilly area and I took this bike everywhere; rockjumps, creeks, STAIRS. The only problem with it was that I had to replace the handlebars 3 times because the downward force made them frown. I loved that bike. Back then I didn't know bikes had to cost a lot of money to be fun. Now I know better.


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## jkoebel (Feb 3, 2008)

My main issue with people riding 'Mart bikes is one of personal investment in the hobby. I've had an experience like this, and know more people who also have.

Person knows someone who mountain bikes, and wants to try it out. $400 is too steep of an initial investment, so they head over to the nearest department store and buy a $100 or so bike.

Bike is heavy, breaks often, performs poorly even when working within factory spec, and new rider has a bad time.

New rider quits after one or two attempts and leaves mountain biking forever with a bad taste in their mouth, and tells anyone else who asks how terrible of a sport it is.

It's personally offensive to me when I see people riding with poor equipment, because it's coloring their experience of something that has the potential to be the most fun out of anything except possibly sex. (And even then....) It's not fair to themselves, and it's not fair to the people who are involved in the sport for real, to have uneducated types running around badmouthing it. Ignorance isn't an excuse for anything, neither is frugality to put it nicely -- plenty of used bikes with good components can be had for about the same price as a Mart bike, and won't turn the new rider off.


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## brianthebiker (Nov 1, 2005)

matt1976 said:


> I read somewhere the average department store bike is ridden approximately 75 miles from store to landfill. But who really cares? This thread wreaks of elitism. I'm out.
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt


+1 on that.

All of these threads are awful. Who cares what people ride as long as they are riding? Not all families can afford an LBS bike! Get over it.

And who are you people kidding......LBS bikes break too.


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## brianthebiker (Nov 1, 2005)

f3rg said:


> Hey, I'm just telling it exactly--EXACTLY--like it is. Ten frustrating years I've dealt with this same b.s. and it never changes. They're just as bad when it comes to computers. Unfortunately, I'm also known as the computer geek, so guess who gets to hear about their problems when they buy a used Pentium II from their mom's neighbor out in the boonies who told them it worked just fine. Somehow, they never seem to be short on funds for beer money and NASCAR t-shirts (maybe because they skimp on important purchases like bikes and computers?).
> 
> For the record, I'm not against people buying what they can afford and working toward something better. It's when people take the easy--read: cheap--way out, end up with problems, come to me for advice, and then ignore me when I try to help them that bugs the crap out of me.


I guess you've never read the myriad threads devoted to broken multi-thousand dollar bikes.

:skep:


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## 2ndgen (Jun 6, 2008)

brianthebiker said:


> +1 on that.
> 
> All of these threads are awful. Who cares what people ride as long as they are riding? Not all families can afford an LBS bike! Get over it.
> 
> And who are you people kidding......LBS bikes break too.


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## 2ndgen (Jun 6, 2008)

slowpoker said:


> So are you saying that ******** are an entirely different race of people? Look, I know you are trying to stick up for ********, but I have lived in south Alabama for my whole 34 year life, and don't know anyone that is offended by the term *******. I speak true *******, and don't give a damn what YA'LL think. Now carry on, for I am enjoying this thread.:smilewinkgrin:


https://image.f2atv.com/images/smilies/*******.gif


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## 2ndgen (Jun 6, 2008)

Roswell52 said:


> Just like when brothers use the "N" word to describe each other, but try using that word yourself when talking to a black person. Same difference.


:yesnod:


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## Whirl (Aug 27, 2008)

I have about 350 miles on my target schwinn and its still mint, I abuse it well also  Then again I maintain it like its a 8 month old baby.


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

I passed a guy yesterday in a simple crushed gravel trail. He had a "Trax" bike (if you ask me, the logo looked just a bit too much like Trek's), and was pushing it uphill, occasionally stopping and messing with the RD. I asked if he needed any help as I got up to him, but he said he was fine. The bike still looked brand new.


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## Solomon76 (Jul 22, 2008)

I have a 200 dollar HM Predator which can be considered a "Mart" bike and I haven't had one issue with it since I got it. However, I keep it very well maintained and I made some upgrades immediately after I bought it. I changed out the front derailleur and upgraded to trigger shifters before I ever rode it. I currently have over 1,200 miles on my HM. Now I have a much nicer bike, but I still ride my HM from time to time because I have a child carrier on it and I ride with my 3 year old son in tow some weekends. I've been on my HM while riding with some co-workers that were on thousand dollar bikes. Some of them have had multiple brake downs on the trails. I think that when it all is said and done, people who have cheap bikes treat the bike like it is a cheap bike and that is the major factor in how long it will or will not last. People with more expensive bikes tend to take better care of their bikes. But I honestly believe that if you put proper TLC and maintenance into your bike (pretty much regardless of the cost), it will last you a very long time.


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

best thing that ever happened to me was having my box store bikes stolen.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

f3rg said:


> Don't most/all of those fat-tired, dual-suspension Wally bikes have a label on them clearing stating they're not intended to be used off-road? I know I've seen the label on at least a couple, but I think I read somewhere that they all have them. Talk about a scam...


Well, they advertise them as "mountain bikes", you can't have it both ways (well, evidently wal-mart can). In the world of ergonomics if you design something so that it can be used outside of it's intended use it's a violation of ergonomic design principles and it leads to failure-modes and other problems. Generally the side of ergonomics is supported in court, but wal-mart has enough money so far to offest this. Calling them "mountain bikes" and designing them to look like real mountain bikes is false advertising and downright unsafe.


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## loydfl (Jan 5, 2006)

axcxnj said:


> my first "mountainbike" was a $200 sports authority diamondback job.
> 
> less than 10 minutes into my first ride i tacoed the front wheel...
> 
> needless to say i didnt keep that bike much longer


Ha,
I did that on my 2nd ride on a $1400 Specialized FSR xc. The wheelset was decidedly "entry level" for my 195 lbs.


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## ricot83 (Jul 2, 2008)

loydfl said:


> Ha,
> I did that on my 2nd ride on a $1400 Specialized FSR xc. The wheelset was decidedly "entry level" for my 195 lbs.


now that's funny


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## alm80 (Jun 16, 2006)

The funny thing about this thread, Saturday i was riding a fairly technical trail here in the STL area. And what do i see, but a newer bright blue "Mart bike" left for dead leaning up against a tree. stem was bent, rear derailleur was bent severly and this model had the read derailleur guard on it. Hate to chuckle at ones misfortune but the owner was no where to be found.


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

alm80 said:


> The funny thing about this thread, Saturday i was riding a fairly technical trail here in the STL area. And what do i see, but a newer bright blue "Mart bike" left for dead leaning up against a tree. stem was bent, rear derailleur was bent severly and this model had the read derailleur guard on it. Hate to chuckle at ones misfortune but the owner was no where to be found.


That's pretty bad when one would rather walk than ride a particular bike a foot further. Of course, the bike may not have given him much of a choice...


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## Akathisia (Sep 30, 2008)

net wurker said:


> Here's my Wal-Mart bike story.
> 
> A year and a half ago, I decided to get in shape. I was 45, six feet tall and weighed around 270. I bought a Wal-Mart mongoose, a Blackcomb. For a month or so, I rode it around my neighborhood, mostly sidewalks. It was fine for this (at least at the time I thought so, more on this later). The biggest issue with it at this point was keeping the derailleurs adjusted. It would be fine after some tweaking, but the next time I rode, it needed adjusting again. I would write this off as cable stretch, but the issues never would "go away" after a few rides. You would think with new cable stretch, the first two or three rides, and then the issue goes away.
> 
> ...


Nice story. Somehow it got lost in all the other BS, but I'm glad I read it. A cheap bike leading to MTB stoke is awesome.:thumbsup:

Probably doing better in the overall health department too.


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## deskinsd87 (Oct 8, 2008)

So I now have something to contribute to this thread. I was out riding with a friend today, he has a mart bike he bought at the beginning of the summer. It has been ok up until today, he has always had problems with keeping the wheels trued and the gears slipping. I think he totaled it today though.

Long story short the bike got away form him after a few bumps and it rolled down a hill without him on it. It rolled on it's wheels most of the way and at the very bottom hit a small bump maybe 6in. did an endo and stopped. We get down the hill pick up the bike and start checking it out, both rims are bent and the derailer was so badly smashed it was locked into the spokes. All I could say is WTF I have never seen so much carnage from such a light fall. I have slipped the pedals before in the outdoor skatepark that I was riding at and launched my bike up a ramp and over the fence probably a good 15ft away and just as high in the air and I went out picked it up and rode back into the park.

He is looking into getting a decent hardtail from a local bike shop now, but I think if it wasn't for me riding so much he would probably just call it quits and stop riding all together.


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## OhioGuy82 (Sep 11, 2006)

My GF bought 2 of them and a rack for less than $50. Because they were discontinued. I've road the hell out of mine. Trails/road, you name it. I've been there with it. It's been put through it's paces. 3+ years and counting. No major problems. Though I am saving for a Gary Fisher Mullet. 

It's all about riding. Brands or place of purchase have no bearing.


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## Dirt Bringer (May 10, 2006)

It is about riding. But if your bike is unridable or so difficult to handle that all your mental power goes there then your not "riding". Your suffering. Thats the main reason for a good bike from a bike shop. 400 bucks buys you something that will work ok and last. Dont be cheap, get one and be happy for real.


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## jettabrett92 (Aug 29, 2008)

My first adult bike was a Wal-Mart Schwinn hardtail. I had it over 2 years, and put over 600 miles on it during that period, with about ~100 of those miles being on light to moderate singletrack. I never had a problem with that bike. I did however have to tune the bike up myself, which is to be expected if you buy from a Dept store. 

Now I've moved on to my first real bike, a DB response. Now some of you all may associate DB with crap, but I feel they're decent bikes that are underrated. I've only put about 350 miles on mine so far, but almost all of it has been on a trail called FATS, which just recently gained "EPIC" status according to IMBA and SORBA. So far, its been perfectly fine. About a month ago I remember passing 2 guys on some really nice FS Giants, that probably MSRP for at least $1200 or so. That felt good passing them, because we started within minutes of each other, and they were obviously getting tired.

On more note, before I got into biking, I remember a friend having a FS Mongoose he got at Target. I wish you guys could see this bike. It literally has been through it all, and it still rides virtually fine. It's about 3-4 years old now, with probably at least 1000 miles on it. Last I heard, my buddy gave it to a kid at his church, when he upgraded to a new Giant Rincon. The kid is still riding it supposedly. Maybe my friend just got lucky.


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## hilltoprider (Aug 12, 2008)

Couldn't you use this argument about lower end bikes vs lbs bikes with anything?When I go to the drag strip I see all kinds of cheap rides.In no way are they able to run consistent times,don't know about anything,on cheap street meat.F'ing losers in their cheap junk.
As a contractor,should I hate everything Lowes sells because it didn't come from a reputable supplier?If you don't know they are the walmart of the building trade.I seen some loser on his cheap mower too,that pos mtd will be trash first time it's used.
Don't forget about all the people with cheap non pure breed dogs,shoot it'll be dead in a week,f'ing cheap dogs.
Yeah it is a stupid argument.Nothing is gonna last if you don't take care of it.I got my cheapo bike and googled mtb repairs.Lots of great sites and "how to"videos to help anyone out.
Now that my skill have surpassed my bike I got a new one.I knew I was getting better and that my cheapo had it's limits,so I didn't push it.I like riding too much and can't drop $1200 on a bike.


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## ricot83 (Jul 2, 2008)

hilltoprider said:


> Couldn't you use this argument about lower end bikes vs lbs bikes with anything?When I go to the drag strip I see all kinds of cheap rides.In no way are they able to run consistent times,don't know about anything,on cheap street meat.F'ing losers in their cheap junk.
> As a contractor,should I hate everything Lowes sells because it didn't come from a reputable supplier?If you don't know they are the walmart of the building trade.I seen some loser on his cheap mower too,that pos mtd will be trash first time it's used.
> Don't forget about all the people with cheap non pure breed dogs,shoot it'll be dead in a week,f'ing cheap dogs.
> Yeah it is a stupid argument.Nothing is gonna last if you don't take care of it.I got my cheapo bike and googled mtb repairs.Lots of great sites and "how to"videos to help anyone out.
> Now that my skill have surpassed my bike I got a new one.I knew I was getting better and that my cheapo had it's limits,so I didn't push it.I like riding too much and can't drop $1200 on a bike.


good argument


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## hilltoprider (Aug 12, 2008)

Would it not be better for the mtb community to help newcomers?I am by no means a expert but when I see a fella with a bike that has obvious problems I'll say something to them,most times help.Only takes me a few minutes to adjust it for them.Tell them about some sites for repairs and hopefully gain a new person to share the sport with.


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## ricot83 (Jul 2, 2008)

IMHO this is what makes certain hobbies better than others. people are always willing to help. around where I ride this is usually how people are.


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## hilltoprider (Aug 12, 2008)

As far as the op question...to what extent do you want to call a bike cheap?I mean to some folks I'm sure you are riding a cheap bike.As well I'm sure there are plenty of people much better at riding than you.So if we take your bike give it to someone a lot better,think it'll break?
These posts like this only turn people away from the sport and the site.I'm not saying go buy a wm bike,but why harp on the subject?Do you own a wal mart bike?If not then why do you care?


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## pbrennan10 (Jul 1, 2008)

I started on a sears bike rigid
it held up just fine

got a new one because i wanted some brakes that would stop me
being out of control 90% of the time probably made me a better rider!


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## FJ29er (Oct 21, 2008)

Same argument could be made in the off-road community. I have a Jeep that will crawl over anything, so should I make fun of the people that are out there in their daily drivers? No. They're out having fun enjoying what they are doing. 99% of the time they are beginners and wouldn't have the slightest idea about what a locker is, twin t-case, or why a Dana 60 is better than a Dana 44. Does that mean I'm having more fun in my Jeep? Absolutely not! Most the people that buy WM bikes aren't out on technical, rocky single track or bombing down some insane drop. And when they break, I'm sure they'll say to themselves, "Well that bike sure didn't last long. Guess it's time for something better."


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## 2ndgen (Jun 6, 2008)

FJ29er said:


> Same argument could be made in the off-road community. I have a Jeep that will crawl over anything, so should I make fun of the people that are out there in their daily drivers? No. They're out having fun enjoying what they are doing. 99% of the time they are beginners and wouldn't have the slightest idea about what a locker is, twin t-case, or why a Dana 60 is better than a Dana 44. Does that mean I'm having more fun in my Jeep? Absolutely not! Most the people that buy WM bikes aren't out on technical, rocky single track or bombing down some insane drop. And when they break, I'm sure they'll say to themselves, "Well that bike sure didn't last long. Guess it's time for something better."


But of course Dana 60s are better than 44 (for most applications)! 
I'd prefer an Atlas II case for my personal build.


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## 2ndgen (Jun 6, 2008)

hilltoprider said:


> Would it not be better for the mtb community to help newcomers?I am by no means a expert but when I see a fella with a bike that has obvious problems I'll say something to them,most times help.Only takes me a few minutes to adjust it for them.Tell them about some sites for repairs and hopefully gain a new person to share the sport with.


When I jumped on my first trail, the riders there were really helpful and gave me a ton of good tips for the local trails. It added much to the experience. MTBrs are usually a great bunch I'd have to say.


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## 2ndgen (Jun 6, 2008)

hilltoprider said:


> Couldn't you use this argument about lower end bikes vs lbs bikes with anything?When I go to the drag strip I see all kinds of cheap rides.In no way are they able to run consistent times,don't know about anything,on cheap street meat.F'ing losers in their cheap junk.
> As a contractor,should I hate everything Lowes sells because it didn't come from a reputable supplier?If you don't know they are the walmart of the building trade.I seen some loser on his cheap mower too,that pos mtd will be trash first time it's used.
> Don't forget about all the people with cheap non pure breed dogs,shoot it'll be dead in a week,f'ing cheap dogs.
> Yeah it is a stupid argument.Nothing is gonna last if you don't take care of it.I got my cheapo bike and googled mtb repairs.Lots of great sites and "how to"videos to help anyone out.
> Now that my skill have surpassed my bike I got a new one.I knew I was getting better and that my cheapo had it's limits,so I didn't push it.I like riding too much and can't drop $1200 on a bike.


That reminds me of my Grandma. You could buy her a small cheap $5. table and it would last her a lifetime because she would keep it clean and not treat it like a $500. table (not loading it up with too much weight or abusing it). But, it's limited as to how it can serve as a table.

Bikes are the same. You ride it to it's limits and not beyond.

And as a fellow Contractor, hey! I love Lowe's! LOL! 
At least better than Home Depository! LOL! 
My personal preferences is for Contractor Supply Stores 
(that'd be your LBS for you MTBrs).

My first MTB bike was a cheap bike because I bought it slightly used from a reputable builder and I having had a ton of experience with bikes knew what to look for and what to avoid, so it was safe for me to buy used. And it's served me well...I'm still waiting for her to give me any problems and I ride with the big boys.

But yeah...a bike should be ridden to it's limit and not beyond. 
Then, when one's skills progress and they want to take on more aggressive riding, 
they should definitely upgrade to a new(er) better quality bike.


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## hilltoprider (Aug 12, 2008)

2ndgen said:


> But of course Dana 60s are better than 44 (for most applications)!
> I'd prefer an Atlas II case for my personal build.


I like to get some dana 44's under my xj.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Akathisia said:


> Probably doing better in the overall health department too.


Yeah, I've dropped about 50 lbs since I started riding. And the miles that used to be an effort just flow now.


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## PscyclePath (Aug 29, 2007)

jkoebel said:


> I was out riding Alafia today (there's a race there, FSC #4, next weekend) and a truckload of overweight ******** pulled up, a set of parents and a few kids who were each probably 30-40 lbs heavy.
> 
> They were all riding Next and Huffy and Pacific full-suspension mart bikes...we ran into them again out on the trail and none of them looked like they were having much fun.
> 
> ...


By way of background, I'm a certified bike geek, and just about as bad a computer geek. I teach what used to be called the "Effective Cycling" courses to both adults and young riders. Many of them show up on their box-store bikes, whether from Wal*Mart, Sports Authority, or wherever.

My thoughts are that the best bike to ride is the one you already have. You don't need fancy gear or clothing to enjoy cycling, or simply riding your bike. And the more you ride, the more you learn, and eventually figure for yourself that you may want to move up from the T-ball level of the sport to something a little better.

I teach folks to check their bikes for safety, to do basic maintenance, and safe riding skills and hazard avoidance. This works just as well on a Huffy as it does on a Cervelo or one of those nice S-Works rigs... and it's just as important. I do caution folks that when they're running one of the Pacific bike clones, the components aren't as durable and they're likely to be looking at replacing worn parts or the whole bike sooner than later.

And it ain't about the bling or the bike, neither... it's the motor. Sure, the new guys are probably packing around a whole lot of extra ballast. Some of us regular riders are, too. But I tell them if you put your butt on your bike and go ride regularly, with a little time and diligence, the rider will shrink.

You don't have to be a snob to enjoy biking... :nono:


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## donalson (Apr 13, 2004)

hehe funny subject... my wife wanted a bike... and she wanted it NOW just a few months back... no intent of going off road beyond maybe some grass... she got the cheapest bike target offered $60 or something like that... the brakes wouldn't even slow her down (tossed on my old alivo canti's and leavers from my old mid 90's MTB i broke the frame on) and it could stop... needed a new saddle as the stock one was made of a badly shaped cement... it's done prob prob about 50 miles... earlier this week I hopped on to show my lil brother how to properly mount a bike (seat height proper height and can't touch ground easily with feet) seems i killed the rear hub... doesn't bother me to much as we got our money out of it...

but in reality if she'd waited we'd have found a decent older bike on craigslist... well actualy we did but it's to small... so now it's a loaner bike to get friends into the sport


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## p.doering (Aug 1, 2008)

This thread needs pics!


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## jalopy jockey (Jun 7, 2007)

axcxnj said:


> my first "mountainbike" was a $200 sports authority diamondback job.
> 
> less than 10 minutes into my first ride i tacoed the front wheel...
> 
> needless to say i didnt keep that bike much longer


Wow 
I have a 15 year old Dicks Sporting Goods Royce Union copperhead. The shifters are a bit touchy, needed the usual wear items but aside from that she spent years on the trail and it's now my kid tugger/commuter.


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## 2ndgen (Jun 6, 2008)

jalopy jockey said:


> Wow
> I have a 15 year old Dicks Sporting Goods Royce Union copperhead. The shifters are a bit touchy, needed the usual wear items but aside from that she spent years on the trail and it's now my kid tugger/commuter.


Memories! 
My first Mountain Bike was a Royce Union! 
I had great times on that bike. 
It was a stout bike.


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## Ricko (Jan 14, 2004)

...I'd probably go about 30 seconds before I tossed it in the weeds and started walking 

FWIW, my first "mountain bike" was a discount store Huffey. I paid $100 new, rode it a year and got $50 for it....not a bad return.


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## Breakurnees (Dec 13, 2007)

alm80 said:


> The funny thing about this thread, Saturday i was riding a fairly technical trail here in the STL area. And what do i see, but a newer bright blue "Mart bike" left for dead leaning up against a tree. stem was bent, rear derailleur was bent severly and this model had the read derailleur guard on it. Hate to chuckle at ones misfortune but the owner was no where to be found.


The "NEXT" bike on Stripmine? I saw that too. I briefly considered trying to ride it down Donjo's. Decided I'd rather not get hurt.


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## pdeco1 (May 15, 2008)

My friend and I destroyed my parents mart bikes in 2 rides at the old Fort Pierce, FL trail. Easy riding may be fine, but being aggressive these bikes didnt last.


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## frdfandc (Sep 5, 2007)

I didn't see any problem with the "*******" statements being made. Hell, I'm a ******* at times. Especially when riding. Because one of my favorite jerseys is this one, but in short sleeve..........


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## rdhood (Jul 30, 2008)

Dirt Bringer said:


> I have no way to even begin to describe how crappy these bikes are. They are DANGEROUS. I think it should be illegal to sell them seeing how they are built and what not.


I agree. I think the average intermediate biker on real singletrack (not just flat gravel like down at the chattahoochee ) would break a Next/Pacifica/Roadways/etc dept store bike in only one or two rides. Most even say on the side that they are not for real off-road riding!.


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## bizzy930 (Aug 7, 2008)

A mart bike can last very, very long if you let it sit indoor and don't touch it...


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## uncomplientspud (Apr 20, 2008)

Although i am unsure if it applies still, when i first started riding over 10 years ago it was on a dept store type bike. That being said, me, my brother and father have used one bike in particular (a costco special) and have been beating on the bike for 7 years now. Though none of use are over weight (165 on the heaviest person), we ride it on the trails that we take our "lbs bikes" on. Basically we treat it like a normal bike. Over seven years apart from normaly maintance, there was one break. A front rim taco'd this year.

Not sure if it worth anything, however that is my experience.


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## C_Heath (Oct 29, 2008)

america is just too dam thin skinned these days.


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## medicman (Oct 30, 2008)

frdfandc said:


> I didn't see any problem with the "*******" statements being made. Hell, I'm a ******* at times. Especially when riding. Because one of my favorite jerseys is this one, but in short sleeve..........


Thread Hijack in progress here, where do you get a jersey like that, I am a big time ******* and would really like a jersey like that. I also don't get offended when called a *******, as that is what I am and I am damned proud of it, I also ride a Walmart Schwinn (skyliner front suspension only) but plan on moving up to a Haro flightline in a few months, only bought this one because I bent the fork on my old bike in a crash and couldn't afford anything over a hundred bucks at the time, although for $100 this bike isn't half bad albeit it's pretty heavy, I did replace the RD with a deore after a crash crunched the Shimano tourney that was on it, but at $40 that was an investment that can move on to my next bike.


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## McNewbie (Apr 5, 2008)

i rode a Target dual-suspension Mongoose bike that must have weighed 40 lbs for years starting when i was 14.

though i put it through much abuse, the thing that ended its career was the derailleur coming loose and getting caught up in the wheel during a fast descent.

it was what got me hooked on mountain biking!


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## airs0ft3r (Sep 2, 2007)

I've found Walmart hardtails are some of the best you can buy for 40 dollars. Cheap, effective, and initial shifting is actually great. I wouldn't trust anything that has any sort of suspension on it.


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## Natedogz (Apr 4, 2008)

matt1976 said:


> I read somewhere the average department store bike is ridden approximately 75 miles from store to landfill. But who really cares? This thread wreaks of elitism. I'm out.
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt


x2...and at least they were riding...maybe that is what they can afford. Not everyone can afford the high-end bikes. Way back when I was a kid...lol, I rode my old Schwinn Sting-Ray converted to bmx while some of my friends rode brand new Redline aluminum everything bikes.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

McNewbie said:


> i rode a Target dual-suspension Mongoose bike that must have weighed 40 lbs for years starting when i was 14.
> 
> though i put it through much abuse, the thing that ended its career was the derailleur coming loose and getting caught up in the wheel during a fast descent.
> 
> it was what got me hooked on mountain biking!


I read somewhere on mtbr.com (check the mtbr search) that the Forge Sawback 5xx sold on target's website (target.com) is a pretty good deal.(not your average dept. store bike) There's always something slipping through the cracks just about everywhere you look.


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## MikeOnBike (May 22, 2009)

f3rg said:


> Don't most/all of those fat-tired, dual-suspension Wally bikes have a label on them clearing stating they're not intended to be used off-road? I know I've seen the label on at least a couple, but I think I read somewhere that they all have them. Talk about a scam...


Saw a Dr. Pepper FS promo bike today at the quik-mart. It had a warning label about 'wear a helmet', 'use a light at night' and, get this, *'do not ride a bike when it is wet outside'*.

Well that spoils all my fun! Guess I can't ride my studded tires in the winter.

The rear shock was just a spring wrapped around a big bolt, nice paint color though.


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## fop1 (May 5, 2008)

I had a friend wanting to come riding with a group of us, he bought a mart bike and the brakes failed in 20 minutes, he was never to be seen on the trails again. I wish he had of saved a bit and got a decent bike, might have had one more friend to go riding with.


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## davis (Jan 12, 2004)

If these ********' Wally bikes couldn't hold up in Florida, just think how bad they would suck if they were taken mountain biking on real mountain bike trails in a state that has real mountains like CO or even WV.

(Just thought we'd try that shoe on the other foot).


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> Don't most/all of those fat-tired, dual-suspension Wally bikes have a label on them clearing stating they're not intended to be used off-road?


Yes they do.

Oh and for all of you that do not like the op's way he typed about ******** and all - get over it because it is so true.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

2ndgen said:


> I thought Roadies were all butthoes and that MTBrs were all cool.


That's a fair assessment.


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## KendrickSnyder (Jun 7, 2009)

I gave a friend of mine my $60 Roadmaster that I started out on. I got hooked about 3 minutes into my first ride on that bike. About a month later I bought a giant yukon. 

He's been riding the Roadmaster for about 6 months, it needs constant re-tuning, it's noisy as hell, I'm sure the front shock is fake, but he has fun. He just has to work a lot harder than the rest of us. Poor guy, but when he actually gets a good bike chances are he's going to be a lot stronger and faster.

I would have never gotten into mt biking if it wasn't for the roadmaster but I don't love it same way I love my yukon


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## Camshaft213 (Feb 16, 2008)

I had a NEXT bike for years and finally took it out on a semi-paved bike path....the rear derailler exploded, as in completely blew apart on the first ride. I then went and bought a $350 Fuji hardtail which performed great getting me into the sport.


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## clutch_08 (May 5, 2009)

my friend destroyed a walmart bike in 3 days.
the funny thing is i think i have a wallmart bike but nothing has ever gone wrong with mine i have had it for 2 years i ride it like 3 times a week. i want to up grade i just have no money and as long as it keeps working i wont get a new one. i hope it breaks so i can get a new one tho


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## Jayphus (May 25, 2005)

I've introduced several overweight young people to mountain biking as a paid private instructor.

When I show up for a consultation, I ask to see their bike. It's more often than not a clapped out mart bike. I inspect it and ride it myself.Almost every time I tell them it's a fine bike and we will be riding trail on it if they decide to sign up with me.

When we ride together for a lesson, I ride a bike that is equally torn up and tattered with squeelly brakes and bald tires. Every time we stop at a trail feature and go over how to tackle it, I demonstrate it on their bike while simultaneously cheicking the bike for safety.

My lessons are not continous. Usually 2-4 sessions to introduce a young adult (usually an overwieght and shy one with concerned parents) to mountain biking and show them how to get out and ride. When it's time to part ways, I take the student to their lbs and introduce them to the staff. We test ride a few bike in the 400 dollar range and I leave those choices with the kid's parents, talk to them about the limitations of their current bike and why the lbs bike is a good investment in their kid's future.

I tell them about how I was an overweight teen; too weird for team sports and disinterested in most every physical activity. My self esteem was low, but I didn't know any better. My car was totalled one day and I had to dust off the busted mart bike in mom's garage to get around. That bike never failed me. I got the bug and bought a more expensive bike before I even knew what was "wrong" with the mart bike.

*All bikes are noble machines.* Even the cheapest mart bike can put a smile on a persons face or -like me and hopefully some of my students- change the course of their life.


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## queevil (Feb 17, 2009)

jkoebel said:


> I was out riding Alafia today (there's a race there, FSC #4, next weekend) and a truckload of overweight ******** pulled up, a set of parents and a few kids who were each probably 30-40 lbs heavy.
> 
> They were all riding Next and Huffy and Pacific full-suspension mart bikes...we ran into them again out on the trail and none of them looked like they were having much fun.
> 
> ...


It's not about being a *******. I've worked in various sales and sometimes it's just difficult to help a person see the value in a really good quality Samsung or Sony LCD TV versus a Vizio from Walmart. They just want a new TV, hunting rifle, computer, car, bicycle,ect. These people cover a gamut of socio-economic backgrounds and races. People with millions sometimes can't understand why you should go with the more expensive brand x over the cheaper brand y.

If you want to throw the word ******* around I don't care. What I do care about is the fact that you and others tend to take that word and attach it to a plethora of negative character and physical traits. I grew up in East Texas, a place where you might find a lot of people that you would consider ******** and now I live a couple of hours away in Waco. ******** as a rule: don't procreate with their cousins, don't worship Dale Earnhardt as their God, aren't uneducated, beer swilling, overweight idiots. Yeah, I know that you didn't say most of that in your post but you might as well have.

You asked in your post if anyone has any similar stories which makes me believe that you started this thread to talk $h!t about people hoping that others would join in. Way to be an ambassador to the sport.

By the way, there are quite a few people at my local trail who you would consider ******** that ride bikes that most people could only dream of being able to own. Have super day.:thumbsup:


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## gregarfish (Aug 16, 2008)

My first year of mountain biking I rode on a full suspension Schwinn from Target. I even raced my first two races on it, finishing 5th and 3rd. Despite my bike not being able to use any of its travel in the front, having the chain fall off every 30 minutes, and only being able to use half the gears, I loved that bike, and without it I never would have gotten into the sport. They really aren't that bad.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

gregarfish said:


> Despite my bike not being able to use any of its travel in the front, having the chain fall off every 30 minutes, and only being able to use half the gears, I loved that bike, and without it I never would have gotten into the sport. They really aren't that bad.


Vast majority of people would not be so enthusiastic about the whole biking experience after having to fix a fallen chain on a trail, or not being able to shift. You are an exception that proves the rule.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Them and Us.*

The divide is considerable and it is real. It is tempting to confuse the plaque of race and socio-economic status into the equation as it does have areal presence but I doubt it is the issue. The persistence of this inclusion only reveals ignorance and a predisposition which, curiously, delineates the issue of relative bike purchases.

So, to the bikes themselves, they have a utility which can be considerable depending upon the amount of mechanical support, the maintenance they have, and the nature of their use. Unfortunately in the modality of mechanical support and maintenance, it is generally poor and the results follow.

However, a very powerful athlete on one of these bikes, even well cared for will, break it in a ride or two and maybe injure themselves.


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## Committee-X (Sep 7, 2006)

Some years ago I started biking witht a steel full-suspension dept store bike. The suspensions were useless and the entire thing weights proximately a whopping 40+ lbs. I was in college, the bike was all I could afford, and I didn't know if mountain biking was really for me yet. For the whole entire summer I rode it up and down the hills just fine. I remember feeling a lot of bad vibes and receving weird looks from the "real" mountain bikers whenever I took a break at the top of the hill. God, I know damn well my bike was garbage compare to theirs. Nevertheless, I fell in love with the sport decided to continue riding that bike until it breaks. One day I crashed on the downhill and bent the fork a little. The bike was still ridable but I knew it was unsafe, and decided it was time for me to invest on a better bike. I never dissed on department store bike because it was a stepping stone for me into mountain biking. Hey its not like beginners are going to go to Whistler on their 2nd or 3rd ride. Anyway, that dept. store bike meant a lot to me. After riding it the whole summer, draggin all of it's 40 lbs up the the hill made me a stronger rider, and it also let me appreciate the the Wolf Ridge that I have now. A lot of time I met men in the trails who just started riding with Ellsworths and Santa Cruz etc. and they barely know how to ride or adjjust their bikes. I learnt about the sport the hard way, but I'm glad I did.


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## PoorBehavior (Sep 1, 2005)

2ndgen said:


> But again, we have to be careful how we speak today.
> Something that's innocent to one group could be offensive to another.


We don't have to be careful. We can be as rude as we want. Being a racist, which I have not seen in this thread, is not illegal. Say what you will, think what you want. Who cares if someone gets offended? Damn, the OP told a story of what he saw but lets make sure we label it so no one could ever be offended. ******** and white trash might have their feelings hurt. Can't call them white though, the Nazi's might get pissed, call them Aryan, right? Or caucasian, eh, no because every subgroup of white could be emotionally traumatized.

Some fat*ss with a couple of kids rolled up on cheap bikes and it got me thinking...
We don't need to be more sensitive to how people feel we need to be less sensitive to what people say.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

It's not the "********" or people who are too cheap to buy themselves a decent bike that bother me. Usually, they just don't actually know the difference between a Mart bike and a high quality bike.

No, what bothers me is all the people (who usually wouldn't be labeled "*******") who purchase $4,000 bikes for themselves but give their kids Huffys. Why would you get yourself something so nice, but make your kid ride junk?! Run an XT rear derailleur instead of that XTR on your rig and get your kid a nice bike. Quality kid bikes are really not that expensive.


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## queevil (Feb 17, 2009)

Kona0197 said:


> Yes they do.
> 
> Oh and for all of you that do not like the op's way he typed about ******** and all - get over it because it is so true.


No. Not really. Now go back over to the brake time forum where people have a better time making fun of you for your asinine comments and ideas.:thumbsup:


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## SlimTwisted (Jun 14, 2006)

Not that I approve of many of the tangents and negative undertones throughout this thread, I would be really interested to read about the results of a department store bike tested on some truly demanding terrain by a skilled pilot. I'm not sure who would be willing to heft the additional weight around for a week at Whistler but seriously, it would be quite interesting from a scientific standpoint to read about what failed and after how long.

I say this because I know some people who have picked up Wally World frames, swapped out a few components (I remember my buddy's Mongoose XR 750 that had been upgraded with lighter wheels, a Rockshox Judy fork, and a few other odds and ends who rode it for years without incident). Then again I've heard stories of people snapping frames just leaving the sidewalk.

Just food for thought.


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## LWright (Jan 29, 2006)

SlimTwisted said:


> Not that I approve of many of the tangents and negative undertones throughout this thread, I would be really interested to read about the results of a department store bike tested on some truly demanding terrain by a skilled pilot. I'm not sure who would be willing to heft the additional weight around for a week at Whistler but seriously, it would be quite interesting from a scientific standpoint to read about what failed and after how long.


One of the mags did this 5 or 7 years ago, BIKE maybe?


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> No. Not really. Now go back over to the brake time forum where people have a better time making fun of you for your asinine comments and ideas.


Please just leave me alone. I'm just trying to get along with people.


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## mkdive (May 4, 2009)

We all know spending more money on a bike usually gets you better quality which usually = a more enjoyable experience. All I see in the OP's post, was a mom & dad that spend some hard earned money in these tough times on something their kids might like? They are all getting out and getting in better shape. Quality family time is what is most important here. They will figure out as most do that mart bikes have their inherent problems. Maybe they will upgrade. Still most important is a family is out biking and hopefully enjoying it!


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## nOOky (May 13, 2008)

You get what you pay for in bikes as in anything else. I had the deluxe dept. store bike, it was $199 back in the day. The handlebars bent downward after riding over curbs etc. I personally would not tempt fate by riding the way I do on a cheap bike. I'm certain it could injure me if pushed too hard. Do they have disclaimers on them, some sort of sticker or something?


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

So I had a Next from walmart full suspension, impressive enough looking bike to any normal person. It had some peddle bob, and a issue with the chain skipping gears but over all a good beater. My old roommate and his brother took me for my very first mountain bike ride after they upgraded my brake levers and shifters. Well lets just say those next bikes are heavy as hell. The back tire went so out of true I had to unhook the brake so I wouldnt touch. The most impressive thing that happened was my left side pedal arm fell off, and ended up loosing the nut that holds it on. Needless to say I was riding with a bike mechanic and we sacrificed one of the nuts holding my front tire on to hold my crank arm on and off I went. I never road that bike again, it got stripped of its new parts and that was the end. For the next month I road a very old Rigid Schwinn which was much more capable, and now I have my Sette which is night and day compared to the Next.


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## worrptangl (Jun 23, 2009)

Just my .02 but the term ******* was started really ,coined by, southern coal miners who wanted to unionize. To show support they wore red bandanas around their necks. It has since grown into the poor under class inbred whatever southerner. I know many people who consider themselves ******** and are not poor inbred or whatever the stereotype says. 

Sorry to hijack, but just a bit of history.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

worrptangl said:


> Just my .02 but the term ******* was started really ,coined by, southern coal miners who wanted to unionize. To show support they wore red bandanas around their necks. It has since grown into the poor under class inbred whatever southerner. I know many people who consider themselves ******** and are not poor inbred or whatever the stereotype says.
> 
> Sorry to hijack, but just a bit of history.


Are you correct, or is Wikipedia correct?



Wikipedia said:


> In the Dictionary of American Regional English, the earliest citation of the term in this context is from 1830, as "a name bestowed upon the Presbyterians of Fayetteville [North Carolina]". A citation from 1893 provides a definition as "poorer inhabitants of the rural districts...men who work in the field, as a matter of course, generally have their skin burned red by the sun, and especially is this true of the back of their necks".[4]


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## worrptangl (Jun 23, 2009)

Curmy said:


> Are you correct, or is Wikipedia correct?


Well I just looked it up on wikipedia and well read further down. It doens't mean either is correct there are many claims to the to who made the first of everything. That could be, but it doesn't mean its the only definition.

But I know that from a report I did in HS. My great grandfather was killed in a mining accident. So I did a report on Coal mining. That was one of the topics I covered. But it is also on wikipedia.

I'm not trying to start a flaming war! I just wanted to throw out a little bit of history and another way it has been used.


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## SlimTwisted (Jun 14, 2006)

LWright said:


> One of the mags did this 5 or 7 years ago, BIKE maybe?


Oh really? Man I would love to read that! Anyone remember the end result of the experiment?


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> Do they have disclaimers on them, some sort of sticker or something?


Yes they do on the BB. Sticker says "Not intended for off road riding".


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## queevil (Feb 17, 2009)

Kona0197 said:


> Please just leave me alone. I'm just trying to get along with people.


Ok. Fair enough. It was kind of a cheap shot.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Jayphus said:


> *All bikes are noble machines.*


Please try and tell me with a straight face that this is a noble machine:


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Well the fork has disc tabs at least. Looks like it will fall apart if you sit on it though.


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## vkalia (Feb 6, 2009)

I wonder how many people tell a guy riding this bike that his seat-tube is broken


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## JonIrons (Oct 14, 2008)

I purchased my 7 year old daughter a Specialized Hotrock 6speed 20" for Christmas. She rides with me on the trails and at the bmx track. She has already bend both the front and rear wheels, bend the rear dr and the dr hanger, bent the right side of her handlebars. She is all of 50something pounds and this POS cost me around $200.00. I could not even imagine the damage of me (175lbs) riding a $100 mart bike.


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## brobee (Jun 14, 2009)

*edited*

responded to wrong post!


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## brobee (Jun 14, 2009)

I am actually going to take my wife on her first ride this coming weekend. She has a ~2yr old Mongoose from Walmart that has mainly been ridden on the rode.

We are going to stick to mainly fireroads, smooth, easy singletrack and depending how she does maybe a quick semi-technical descent or two. But, I am very worried about her bike. For starters, the thing must weigh 45lbs. But as far as parts quality, I dont think shes going to start out riding to aggressive so I am being fairly optimistic.

So post-ride I will post back to with results. If shes in a good mood maybe I'll interrogate her a bit too


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## NicoleC (Sep 28, 2007)

If it's smooth trails and fireroads she should be fine... just don't let her pick up your bike and find how much (less) it weighs after she's been pushing hers around. 

I have a clydesdale friend who rides a mart bike on smooth offroad trails and so far it's done okay, much to my surprise. He's an awfully big guy. Both wheels are out of true, but that could happen with any bike.

I wouldn't let her trying anything rocky or rooty with that bike, though, even when she's ready for it. It might handle it -- but it also might not. I'd be more concerned about the effects of a cheap and almost certainly ill-fitting seat on her posterior than the bike falling apart under her.


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## brobee (Jun 14, 2009)

*edited for double post*


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## BrianU (Feb 4, 2004)

I work with a gentleman that was diagnosed with diabetes a couple years ago. 55 years old and overweight, he commented one day that he was not lucky like me and able to stay thin. I told him that after about the time I turned 30, I gained weight very easy and the only reason I was not fat was because I did ride and run. He then mentioned that he did have a bike in his garage he had bought at the Tinker AFB BX, which basically is just another department store bike, and that maybe he would go check out one of the trails that I was always talking about.

I did not give it much thought, but the following Monday, he showed up at work all excited about how much fun he had. That was 2 years ago, 50 pounds lighter and get this.........he is still riding that same bike. He even rides the skinny we put in on a local trail last year and we are talking 5 feet high across a 44 foot gap. I can not even begin to tell you how many people I know on $3000 rigs that will not touch that thing.

I have told him several times that for how much he rides, he would appreciate a nicer bike. He always says that when this one breaks, he will think about it. Last week he was complaining that the wheels are starting to feel loose, which I have no idea what exactly he is talking about. I do know that he has done nothing to this thing, but ride it. Every time I see it in the back of his truck, I am freak'in amazed that it is still going. Anyway, maybe I will finally get him into a real bike shop and hopefully before he hurts himself.

Brian


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## NicoleC (Sep 28, 2007)

Great story, Brian.


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

I'm pretty sure most mountain bikers got started on cheap big box store bikes. Growing up me and every other kid in the neighborhood had a Huffy. I think at that age, I couldn't tell the difference between and Huffy and a LBS bike. 

The bike that got really into mountain biking was a $200 Univega my dad got for me at Sports Authority. I rode and beat on this bike for a couple years and it got me hooked.

All you guys who are elitist pricks about cheap bikes need to realise that yuo need to start somewhere.

Your first car isn't a BMW, your first house isn't a mansion and your first bike isn't a high pricey rig.


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## iSlowpoke (Feb 24, 2009)

Who gives a ****. Riding is about having fun. Not impressing others what they ride...


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

iSlowpoke said:


> Who gives a ****. Riding is about having fun. Not impressing others what they ride...


Indeed. Faceplanting from a broken bike or even just hiking it out would be stretching the definition of fun though. Of course your mileage may vary.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

iSlowpoke said:


> Who gives a ****. Riding is about having fun. Not impressing others what they ride...


It's not about impressing others with my ride, it's about having a bike which performs well. Toy store bikes don't perform well.


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## SuPrBuGmAn (Jun 20, 2009)

I used a Roadmaster for years before I had a driver's license, road it around town, the neighboring towns, trails, ditches, crappy ramps we built, etc. Aside from a taco'd rim after coming off a homemade ramp and landing on the front rim, it never really needed any attention. This bike was road daily. My parents surely picked it up for less than $100. 

Fast forward better than a decade and I just went on a camping trip with some buddies, we took bikes along and I had to borrow one. One had a FS Walgoose, another had a Scwhalmart cruiser, another had a HT Cannondale, and there was another roadbike in the mix. We road on pavement bike trails and a few very easy single tracks. I spent time on the 'Goose and the Cannondale, both had gearing issues albeit the 'Dale was a hellovalot lighter. It got me interested enough to think about a bike. Its not gonna be my main hobby(hard to beat cave diving) and likely won't see any serious trails. I went with a Schwalmart bike since I have no idea if I'm going to stick with it - I have no misconception that my bike should stack up against an LBS bike. 

I'd consider myself a fool for dumping $400-500 on a bike that I ride for a couple days a year if I end up not "getting into it" and just riding it on the occassional camping trip. 

I bought a HT Schwalmart, its heavy, shifting isn't smooth, and I can bottom out the front suspension with my poorly executed bunnyhop(no more than 2-3"s off the ground). Didnt trust the frames on the FS bikes I saw at Walmart. I weigh 210 and have been riding the bike daily and have been on the forums daily. Was it a bad purchase? Nope. If things continue the way they've been going, I'll buy a $400-500 entry level bike and have a spare bike to let another buddy ride. 

$100 is far more expendable than $500. 

There are no warnings on my bike, nor the owners manual that state the bike isn't trail rideable. I'm not idiot enough to believe that it will handle any jumps larger than the ditch I've been going off in my front lawn, nor will it stand up to a high drop. 

Its about fun. 

So if a person busts there department store bike on a trail and never gains interest in riding, would that have changed if the bike hadn't broken? Maybe, but you don't know for sure. Likely a better chance of a good time, but its definately not a given(and they'd be out a hellovalot more cash). Shouldn't some of the blame be put on the new - rider for pushing DSBs and LBS bikes all in the same category? Maybe they should have ridden a lighter trail? Maybe they should have checked out the bike components to make sure they were all adjusted correctly? Should there not be any personal responsibility when a bike breaks?


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## weenfreek (Jul 5, 2009)

I started on a Huffy road bike (2 of em actually). I do have to say this, i learned a LOT about bike repair and some major appreciation for my Dad's Peugeot (he used to race it back when i was a baby). I was amazed when i got my first MTB that the shifters worked... all the time...


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## SoylentOrange (Jun 27, 2007)

I rode a $100 fully rigid Supercycle from Canadian Tire in the Alberta Rockies for 2 years when I was broke. It took me many places I never would have seen on foot and held up pretty well once I got a healthy dose of locktite on all the fasteners...


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

Mongoose is the SEX!


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## Kneescar (Feb 26, 2009)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Mongoose is the SEX!


If by sex, you mean a 450lb toothless senior citizen....then you are right.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Troll Alert*



Kneescar said:


> If by sex, you mean a 450lb toothless senior citizen....then you are right.


If this guy bothers you just put him on your ignore list.


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## Red Leg (Jun 26, 2008)

most people who ride mountain bikes are moronic, self-serving, braggarts and this thread only serves to accentuate the obvious fact that this is undeniably true and should reveal to the average mountain biker why the world tends to have such a negative opinion of them

unlike most of you, I AM PERFECT and therefore fully qualified to make such a statement, and should you disagree, you are completely deceived and totally wrong


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## lampy29 (Oct 16, 2008)

One thing that I don't get is people who ride the local trails on wall gooses without helmets. That's just stupid. I don't care that you're riding a $120 bike, that's how I learned too. But not wearing a helmet on supertechnical steep rocky singletrack!? And doing it on a walmart bike!? And having your little kid behind you too??? C'mon.

Ouch.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Agreed*



Red Leg said:


> most people who ride mountain bikes are moronic, self-serving, braggarts and this thread only serves to accentuate the obvious fact that this is undeniably true and should reveal to the average mountain biker why the world tends to have such a negative opinion of them
> 
> unlike most of you, I AM PERFECT and therefore fully qualified to make such a statement, and should you disagree, you are completely deceived and totally wrong


I only agree because I am perfect just like you.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Omg*



lampy29 said:


> One thing that I don't get is people who ride the local trails on wall gooses without helmets. That's just stupid. I don't care that you're riding a $120 bike, that's how I learned too. But not wearing a helmet on supertechnical steep rocky singletrack!? And doing it on a walmart bike!? And having your little kid behind you too??? C'mon.
> 
> Ouch.


I have seen lampshades and overalls on tec trails.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Only one person who walked this Earth was perfect. And it is not you.


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## Chopsuey (Jun 12, 2009)

I remember starting out with a *cheaper* bike and after coming down from a jump snapping both plastic pedals and having a extremely great laugh. A year down the road i got my mom to buy me a dyno nsx and lasted to this day(about 6 years) with a bent crank hanging in her garage. Onto better and bigger things! (with mtn biking)


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*pROVE IT*



Kona0197 said:


> Only one person who walked this Earth was perfect. And it is not you.


 Prove it.


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## Red Leg (Jun 26, 2008)

I agree but would like to suggest that "One" may be better being capitalized rather than "earth" ... I know you will agree


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## Camshaft213 (Feb 16, 2008)

Kona0197 said:


> Only one person who walked this Earth was perfect. And it is not you.


Ronald Reagan?


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## crashedandburned (Jan 9, 2004)

Camshaft213 said:


> Ronald Reagan?


I'd say Micheal Jackson.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

crashedandburned said:


> I'd say Micheal Jackson.


Michael Jackson would not last long on a good trail. Reagan it is.


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

c'mon, we all know it was Margaret Thatcher.


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## jamie_a4 (Jun 24, 2007)

It pretty much falls apart after this, with me turning my podcasts back on and ignoring them.[/QUOTE]

I know this is old.... but man, quit giving us elitists a bad name.

Holy F*%#k - "I turned my podcast back on" are you f'n kidding

"and then I tweeted about how ignorant he was" nahhh

That's some funny sh1t.


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## chas_martel (May 14, 2006)

Jim311 said:


> I love that people are objecting to the term "*******" when you see all kinds of hillbillies who love to point out that they're a *******. Whether it's a sticker on their clapped out Chevy pickemup, or a confederate flag tshirt with the term emblazoned on the front and back.


Kinda like some black people calling themselves ******s? <- I tried to use the N word but was censored.

Hey, why does ******* not get censored?


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

chas_martel said:


> Kinda like some black people calling themselves ******s? <- I tried to use the N word but was censored.
> 
> Hey, why does ******* not get censored?


yeah, but ******** weren't enslaved for hundreds of years, then denied basic civil rights for another 100+


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

laxman2001 said:


> yeah, but ******** weren't enslaved for hundreds of years, then denied basic civil rights for another 100+


Many nationalities had not been enslaved either, but they do not like racial slur either - like *******, or go*k.

Interesting - ******* is not censored, but go.k is.


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## lt4 (Jul 11, 2009)

I spent most of the 90s in S. Korea. The single tracks were great. We frequently had people requesting to ride with us on their muffys. We always tried to warn them of the dangers. Their bikes were great for commuting around the post but dangerous for the trails we rode. Still many followed and many narrowly escaped serous injury. One of the best equipment failures involved both crank arms going down at the same time on a bumpy descent. Another bent a handlebar straight down again on a bumpy descent the crash happened after the bar bent. There were several broken derailers, chains and wheels. Somehow there were never any broken bones but plenty of skin was left.

I grew up riding a second hand Schwin Spider, tossed the banna seat for a ten spead seat before BMX became popular and way before dedicated MTBs.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

lt4 said:


> I grew up riding a second hand Schwin Spider, tossed the banna seat for a ten spead seat before BMX became popular and way before dedicated MTBs.


Welcome to MTBR. :thumbsup:


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

ha ha iggied you first tardles..pfft


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Skill*



lt4 said:


> I spent most of the 90s in S. Korea. The single tracks were great. We frequently had people requesting to ride with us on their muffys. We always tried to warn them of the dangers. Their bikes were great for commuting around the post but dangerous for the trails we rode. Still many followed and many narrowly escaped serous injury. One of the best equipment failures involved both crank arms going down at the same time on a bumpy descent. Another bent a handlebar straight down again on a bumpy descent the crash happened after the bar bent. There were several broken derailers, chains and wheels. Somehow there were never any broken bones but plenty of skin was left.
> 
> I grew up riding a second hand Schwin Spider, tossed the banna seat for a ten spead seat before BMX became popular and way before dedicated MTBs.


Sounds like a lack of skill more than a lack of equipment.


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

Oh No, He's Back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Hopping_Rocks (Aug 23, 2008)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Sounds like a lack of skill more than a lack of equipment.


Yes, surely the handlebar spontaneously failing is caused by a lack of skill.


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Sounds like a lack of skill more than a lack of equipment.


Perhaps when you ride, but when a normal person rides when there equipment fails it tends to be the equipments fault not the rider.


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## Padre (Jan 6, 2004)

It's hilarious to see the folks riding Wal-Mart bikes down the street/trail and seeing the bars rotated backwards and the brake levers skyward as those bolts rarely get tightened at the store and the rider has no idea what's going on...

Took some friends on a 15 mile 1,000' ride...between the two, their bikes cost $350 retail. One is the Motiv full-suspension from Costco $125 and the other is a Mongoose hardtail from an LBS for $250. (my high-zoot Lenz is also inside haa)

Enjoy the Motiv airbone and with smiles included.

Video:


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

laxman2001 said:


> Oh No, He's Back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


"Ignore user" is convenient, but unfortunately it does leave a line in the thread anyway, only collapses the post.

I guess troll went for a second round? Some folks get off on having a separate trolling account. Losers.


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## vinny_c (Jul 23, 2009)

Oh man! Racism? Intolerance? I didn't see any of that. All I saw is someone telling a story about what he saw using some VERY common slang terms. I just don't get why people are so incensed about silly things. I mean I guess I could have marched and held a picket sign when "White Men Can't Jump" was released in theaters and all but DAMN! But I guess that's easy for me to say being an equal oppotunity offender and all. I rag on all types....including myself. I guess some people are just wound tighter than others. Someone told me this little gem a few years back, and I am not saying it's true or anything.....just offering something to think about: "Stereotypes exist for a reason.....they're usually true". 

That being said, if someone wants to buy a Wal-Mart bike and take it out then that's cool with me. I think they should do a little research but who am I to criticize? I had my share of Huffy's, Murrays, and Pacifics. As long as they don't wreak havoc on the trail and terrorize other bikers I say have at it!

Just my 2 cents....and wondering why the pickup truck in front of me on my way home from work the other day had a bumper sticker saying "******** Do It Better" LOL


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Scary thread. It's not about elitism, it's about basic safety. With those mart bikes, you're really pushing the bike's limits when you take it off road. I suppose if you like to flip a coin to find out whether your head tube will snap off causing you to face plant in a rock garden, go ahead.

I don't mind the _idea_ of cheap bikes, but the implementation needs to be better. It really scares me to see all these mart bikes with scary unreliable suspension parts that LOOK like mountain bikes, but aren't designed for the terrain. A cheap bike should be basic. Maybe a rigid SS. It would surely be a more durable for the price than something of comparable price with suspension and shifters and fake disc brakes.

The cheap internet-only makers also scare me. Some of the bikes are only marginally better quality than mart bikes.

A $50 bike should be built to look like a neighborhood cruiser, since something THAT inexpensive isn't durable enough to handle the rigors of serious off road riding.

Yeah, I had a mart Huffy when I was a kid. It was all my folks could afford. It looked like a mountain bike, at least At least it was rigid, and the mfr didn't waste production money/time on suspension bits. The bike worked around the neighborhood just fine. I even rode some smooth dirt trails once before I knew what mountain biking was. Just because it handled smooth dirt didn't mean the bike was capable of anything more serious. I kept it for a number of years, because I took care of it. I pretty much stayed to neighborhood streets and campgrounds. That's all these bikes are really made for, in spite of their appearance (gotta look COOL).

As long as you're not deceiving yourself about the capabilities of these bikes, they do ok for their intended function once they are set up properly (I've NEVER seen one built right in the store).

Still, I'm not going to buy my wife such a pile of junk for her to try mountain biking with. God how she'd hate the sport. We bought her a $500 bike for that, which taught her to enjoy mtb, but even that bike is too heavy for her. She's a small woman. Most importantly, though, the bike didn't fall apart on her at any time.

I've seen folks 'trying' some urban mtb trails on mart bikes. The trails aren't technical, but they're fast. Invariably, the folks on mart bikes spend more time walking than riding. I don't think I've ever seen one of them with a helmet on, although you don't much need a helmet when walking.


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## Barkleyfan (Jul 26, 2008)

lampy29 said:


> One thing that I don't get is people who ride the local trails on wall gooses without helmets. That's just stupid. I don't care that you're riding a $120 bike, that's how I learned too. But not wearing a helmet on supertechnical steep rocky singletrack!? And doing it on a walmart bike!? And having your little kid behind you too??? C'mon.
> 
> Ouch.


I've never understoood the vehemence some people push protection with. I've ridden the Sierras, the Rockies, urban, xc, mild dh, bmx, etc. I tried to do a helmet once, when I thought I might be good enough to compete in the Keysville Classic. Helmet just aint my gig. Same for gloves, lycra, and camelbacks. If you dig 'em, cool. I understand that a helmet can be the difference between life and death, but there are some things I may not necessarily want to live through. If I were that concerned, I wouldn't be riding off road. 
This topic seems to come up every time I get together with my local riding group to socialize. Kinda kills the buzz.


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

Barkleyfan said:


> I've never understoood the vehemence some people push protection with. I've ridden the Sierras, the Rockies, urban, xc, mild dh, bmx, etc. I tried to do a helmet once, when I thought I might be good enough to compete in the Keysville Classic. Helmet just aint my gig. Same for gloves, lycra, and camelbacks. If you dig 'em, cool. I understand that a helmet can be the difference between life and death, but there are some things I may not necessarily want to live through. If I were that concerned, I wouldn't be riding off road.
> This topic seems to come up every time I get together with my local riding group to socialize. Kinda kills the buzz.


I'm also betting that you don't have a wife or kids. If you don't ride without a helmet, that's fine. I'm not your mother. I'll think you're an idiot, but I won't stop you (though I will shout out advice, since most people don't know any better). And certainly it should be mandatory for anyone under 16. But my tax dollars shouldn't go toward your medical bills (or the cost of sending an ambulance/life flight) just because you chose not to wear a helmet.


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## Barkleyfan (Jul 26, 2008)

laxman2001 said:


> I'm also betting that you don't have a wife or kids. If you don't ride without a helmet, that's fine. I'm not your mother. I'll think you're an idiot, but I won't stop you (though I will shout out advice, since most people don't know any better). And certainly it should be mandatory for anyone under 16. But my tax dollars shouldn't go toward your medical bills (or the cost of sending an ambulance/life flight) just because you chose not to wear a helmet.


lol Your tax dollars won't go for it. I'm insured. I have 3 boys and twin daughters. While I'd certainly like to see the kids wear helmets, I won't force them to. They're insured as well. To be honest tho, I'm far more worried about their chances surviving a trip down I-80 than I am about their chances on the trail.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

laxman2001 said:


> I'm also betting that you don't have a wife or kids. If you don't ride without a helmet, that's fine. I'm not your mother. I'll think you're an idiot, but I won't stop you (though I will shout out advice, since most people don't know any better). And certainly it should be mandatory for anyone under 16. But my tax dollars shouldn't go toward your medical bills (or the cost of sending an ambulance/life flight) just because you chose not to wear a helmet.


Damn, wearing a helmet is so easy...you can get one for $20, even. I understand a lot of people have skirted death not wearing one, and I probably did a few times as a kid. But now, at 28, I know better. I agree with laxman on this. I am married. If I died in a bike crash for not wearing a helmet, she'd be beside herself. No kids, yet...cancer may mean never for that. But really, once you get married, you have responsibilities outside yourself. Then when you have kids, those responsibilities multiply. But wearing a helmet is SO EASY. Forget about lycra...that's silly. Who cares about that? A wicking t and some light, comby baggies are fine. Camelbaks, while not safety equipment, are practical. On a hot day, I can drain a 3L one between drinking and pouring water on my head. I don't have enough bottles for that, and if it's especially hot, I'll have an electrolyte replacement drink in a bottle, too. But camelbaks are practical places for tools, snacks, a rain jacket, or your wallet & car keys. Where do you keep your tools? Do you carry snacks? What do you do with your wallet & car keys? A (big) saddle bag carried my wallet & keys for a long time when I was a newbie, but it couldn't handle a pump, shock pump, multitool, spare tube, and spare chain links, also. Plus it rattled and made lots of noise. A small backpack that also carried my water just made sense at that point. My backpacking gear (and the associated pack) is small enough that I can wear that while on the bike (also with a water bladder) and go camping in very remote places.

I rode for awhile without gloves, too, but found that I shredded my hands on rocks when I crashed, and also the rubber from my grips rubbed off into my palms, making it harder to grip. Gloves followed naturally.

The reason the helmet rule comes up on group rides is because nobody wants to care for your negligent @$$ in an emergency. If it's a club organized ride, the club doesn't want to assume liability for your negligent @$$, either. If that's a buzzkill, wear a stupid helmet. It's not like a helmet decreases your sperm count or makes you lose 50 IQ points. It's just a little warm and makes your hair look funny. If that's too much for you, maybe you should stick to the nightclubs where pretty hair makes a difference.


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

NateHawk said:


> Damn, wearing a helmet is so easy...you can get one for $20, even. I understand a lot of people have skirted death not wearing one, and I probably did a few times as a kid. But now, at 28, I know better. I agree with laxman on this. I am married. If I died in a bike crash for not wearing a helmet, she'd be beside herself. No kids, yet...cancer may mean never for that. But really, once you get married, you have responsibilities outside yourself. Then when you have kids, those responsibilities multiply. But wearing a helmet is SO EASY. Forget about lycra...that's silly. Who cares about that? A wicking t and some light, comby baggies are fine. Camelbaks, while not safety equipment, are practical. On a hot day, I can drain a 3L one between drinking and pouring water on my head. I don't have enough bottles for that, and if it's especially hot, I'll have an electrolyte replacement drink in a bottle, too. But camelbaks are practical places for tools, snacks, a rain jacket, or your wallet & car keys. Where do you keep your tools? Do you carry snacks? What do you do with your wallet & car keys? A (big) saddle bag carried my wallet & keys for a long time when I was a newbie, but it couldn't handle a pump, shock pump, multitool, spare tube, and spare chain links, also. Plus it rattled and made lots of noise. A small backpack that also carried my water just made sense at that point. My backpacking gear (and the associated pack) is small enough that I can wear that while on the bike (also with a water bladder) and go camping in very remote places.
> 
> I rode for awhile without gloves, too, but found that I shredded my hands on rocks when I crashed, and also the rubber from my grips rubbed off into my palms, making it harder to grip. Gloves followed naturally.
> 
> The reason the helmet rule comes up on group rides is because nobody wants to care for your negligent @$$ in an emergency. If it's a club organized ride, the club doesn't want to assume liability for your negligent @$$, either. If that's a buzzkill, wear a stupid helmet. It's not like a helmet decreases your sperm count or makes you lose 50 IQ points. It's just a little warm and makes your hair look funny. If that's too much for you, maybe you should stick to the nightclubs where pretty hair makes a difference.


Makes sense to me.

Look, I understand it's not the most comfortable thing. And maybe you don't ride very difficult trails. But think, just ONE MISTAKE, by yourself or someone else, and you could be badly hurt or killed. It's not like you can control everything. Even something as stupid as equipment failure could cost you your life. Your insurance won't mean jack if you're unable to move below the neck.

And, with all due respect, I personally feel that if you don't make your kid wear a helmet, you're being a negligent parent. Its a FACT that kids don't know better. It's the parent's responsibility to ensure their safety.

You mention the very real dangers of driving. Do you drive without a seatbelt as well? Do you let your kids ride without seatbelts? I consider not wearing a helmet to be just as dangerous.

Also, I like Barkley, but he needs to give the Rockets some [email protected]#$ing respect. We get it. You don't like that we fired Rudy T. Get over it.


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## Barkleyfan (Jul 26, 2008)

NateHawk said:


> Damn, wearing a helmet is so easy...you can get one for $20, even. I understand a lot of people have skirted death not wearing one, and I probably did a few times as a kid. But now, at 28, I know better. I agree with laxman on this. I am married. If I died in a bike crash for not wearing a helmet, she'd be beside herself. No kids, yet...cancer may mean never for that. But really, once you get married, you have responsibilities outside yourself. Then when you have kids, those responsibilities multiply. But wearing a helmet is SO EASY. Forget about lycra...that's silly. Who cares about that? A wicking t and some light, comby baggies are fine. Camelbaks, while not safety equipment, are practical. On a hot day, I can drain a 3L one between drinking and pouring water on my head. I don't have enough bottles for that, and if it's especially hot, I'll have an electrolyte replacement drink in a bottle, too. But camelbaks are practical places for tools, snacks, a rain jacket, or your wallet & car keys. Where do you keep your tools? Do you carry snacks? What do you do with your wallet & car keys? A (big) saddle bag carried my wallet & keys for a long time when I was a newbie, but it couldn't handle a pump, shock pump, multitool, spare tube, and spare chain links, also. Plus it rattled and made lots of noise. A small backpack that also carried my water just made sense at that point. My backpacking gear (and the associated pack) is small enough that I can wear that while on the bike (also with a water bladder) and go camping in very remote places.
> 
> I rode for awhile without gloves, too, but found that I shredded my hands on rocks when I crashed, and also the rubber from my grips rubbed off into my palms, making it harder to grip. Gloves followed naturally.
> 
> The reason the helmet rule comes up on group rides is because nobody wants to care for your negligent @$$ in an emergency. If it's a club organized ride, the club doesn't want to assume liability for your negligent @$$, either. If that's a buzzkill, wear a stupid helmet. It's not like a helmet decreases your sperm count or makes you lose 50 IQ points. It's just a little warm and makes your hair look funny. If that's too much for you, maybe you should stick to the nightclubs where pretty hair makes a difference.


Damn brotha Nate. You got some feelins on this one, dontcha? I hear ya man, but I aint askin nobody to involve themselves. If you don't wanna get involved, don't. I made it this long without a helmet by recognizing my limitations, and by knowing *how *to go down. The helmet is a distraction, and it gives me a headache. Plus I feel like a a$$hole in one. Some people swear by clipless pedals too. I just can't get into it. Probably won't be doing a helmet on my motorcycle either. Mandtory helmet laws is part of what turned me off to my homestate in the Republik of Kaliphornia.


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## Barkleyfan (Jul 26, 2008)

laxman2001 said:


> Makes sense to me.
> 
> Look, I understand it's not the most comfortable thing. And maybe you don't ride very difficult trails. But think, just ONE MISTAKE, by yourself or someone else, and you could be badly hurt or killed. It's not like you can control everything. Even something as stupid as equipment failure could cost you your life. Your insurance won't mean jack if you're unable to move below the neck.
> 
> ...


lol I'll tell him next time I talk to him. Keep in mind, Chuck ended his carreer under Rudy T. He had alot of respect for Rudy as a coach, which is strange in itself.

I don't let my kids ride without seatbelts. There are some very stupid people behind the wheel on our roads. People who run into trains that have already been across the intersection for 5 minutes, for instance. People who can carry on a conversation with a passenger just fine, but put a cell phone to their ear and they lose the status of being self aware. Different ballgame tho.

When I started mountain biking, we didn't wear helmets. The only time I ever saw helmets was when roadies would pull up to the trails in their BMW's and Mercedes looking for their passion of the month. IMBA was still small and had little influence. When these people showed up at the trailhead, they would become the topic of conversation while we passed the pipe around. Who knew they'd actually stick with it?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Barkleyfan said:


> Damn brotha Nate. You got some feelins on this one, dontcha? I hear ya man, but I aint askin nobody to involve themselves. If you don't wanna get involved, don't. I made it this long without a helmet by recognizing my limitations, and by knowing *how *to go down. The helmet is a distraction, and it gives me a headache. Plus I feel like a a$$hole in one. Some people swear by clipless pedals too. I just can't get into it. Probably won't be doing a helmet on my motorcycle either. Mandtory helmet laws is part of what turned me off to my homestate in the Republik of Kaliphornia.


Maybe you haven't found one that fits yet...not all fit the same. Helmets on a motorcycle are just common sense.

I guess you're a good example of "weed only makes you a little stupid" except in your case, your vehement opposition to helmets of any kind is irrational. I guess we'll just wait for a crash to make you a lot stupid from the brain damage. Helmets have already saved my @$$ on a couple occasions. And yes, I know how to fall. As a kid, I managed no injury when I went OTB on the street. But sometimes you don't get the chance to 'control' your fall. I agree that not requiring your kids to wear them is a death waiting to happen.


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

I bought a helmet before I even had my bike. It is super retarded to not ride with one, and if you smack your head during a crash you might actually be super retarded the rest of your life.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

NateHawk said:


> vehement opposition to helmets of any kind is irrational.


Opposition to helmets is indeed irrational. Opposition to helmet laws is a very reasonable thing.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Curmy said:


> Opposition to helmets is indeed irrational. Opposition to helmet laws is a very reasonable thing.


DING-DING-DING!!! -WINNER! 
_~please pick an prize from the top-shelf~_


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

highdelll said:


> DING-DING-DING!!! -WINNER!
> _~please pick an prize from the top-shelf~_


CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! You selected: HEAD TRAUMA! And, wit head trauma, you also win: VEGETATIVE STATE! AGAIN, CONGRATULATIONS!!!!


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

I don't think you get it...
Is a law gonna protect my noggin?


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Barkleyfan said:


> Damn brotha Nate. You got some feelins on this one, dontcha? I hear ya man, but I aint askin nobody to involve themselves. If you don't wanna get involved, don't. I made it this long without a helmet by recognizing my limitations, and by knowing *how *to go down. The helmet is a distraction, and it gives me a headache. Plus I feel like a a$$hole in one. Some people swear by clipless pedals too. I just can't get into it. Probably won't be doing a helmet on my motorcycle either. Mandtory helmet laws is part of what turned me off to my homestate in the Republik of Kaliphornia.


And you have it folks. He's made it this far by knowing "how to go down"!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Curmy said:


> Opposition to helmets is indeed irrational. Opposition to helmet laws is a very reasonable thing.


Why is that? Keeps the very stupid from raising rates on ambulance/life flight costs, insurance costs, etc.


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## AnthemRider (Feb 7, 2007)

Barkleyfan said:


> lol Your tax dollars won't go for it. I'm insured.


No so "lol." Your follow up isn't really responsive in that it just means that all of our premiums go up. Nothing's free -- especially if your care and treatment exceed your coverage.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

NateHawk said:


> Why is that? Keeps the very stupid from raising rates on ambulance/life flight costs, insurance costs, etc.


Because government has no business micromanaging very stupid unless they endanger people around them.

Biking without a helmet is most definitely not in the category of death defying stunts that warrant additional big brother intrusion.


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## Barkleyfan (Jul 26, 2008)

lmfao Wow, people never cease to amaze me. I don't wear a helmet, and I likely never will. If that makes you twitch, talk to your physician. Perhaps he can medicate your emotional state. Put that on your insurance providers back, and then tell yourself how I am driving up premiums in a rhythmic chant so it's more convincing. Click your heels together as well, it may just help maintain the illusion.


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

doesn't make me twitch. Just hope you don't orphan your kids.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

I don't use a helmet either. Well I normally do not.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Curmy said:


> Because government has no business micromanaging very stupid unless they endanger people around them.
> 
> Biking without a helmet is most definitely not in the category of death defying stunts that warrant additional big brother intrusion.


Right!, I hate all laws that try regulate 'crimes' against myself.
Seatbelts...
drug-use...
attempting suicide...
If, I'm endangering only myself, it should be MY choice.


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## aa1pr (Jul 16, 2009)

I could imagine a ******* bike race... At least they are not letting any financial or social restraints stop them from having fun and that is what any hobby is all about.


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## Barkleyfan (Jul 26, 2008)

laxman2001 said:


> doesn't make me twitch. Just hope you don't orphan your kids.


I find that quite reasonable, and I certainly feel the same. My kids are why I get up in the morning. They're also why I put in 60-80 hours a week, why I got bored with getting buzzed for recreation, and a hundred less tangible, life-defining decisions I've made over the years. But IMO, asking me to wear a helmet in the sport of biking is like asking a fighter to wear a helmet. It just aint natural to me, and since the repercussions of this decision ride on my shoulders, that should be the end of the discussion as I see it. I just find the imposition a bit presumptuous.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

REMEMBER PEOPLE!!!
Put on safety glasses when painting your living room!
Paint can get in your eye and you can be blinded!!!
(FWIW, I wear a helmet when MTBing, not commuting to school w/ cars - MY choice :thumbsup


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

Fair enough. But I do think Motorcycle helmets, just like seat belts, should be mandatory. Why? Because if I hit you with my car at 2mph:
If your wearing a helmet, it won't be too bad.
If you're not, you crack your head open on the pavement.
Bot hsides win. You feel substantially less pain and suffering, I don't have to shell out for emergency brain surgery.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

laxman2001 said:


> You feel substantially less pain and suffering, I don't have to shell out for emergency brain surgery.


One effect of mandatory helmet laws - that I looked up on the internets, but it sounds plausible - is that it caused a shortage of donor organs, and more people on long term life support.

Whether that is true or not, it does not matter though. The insurance premiums "justification" is utterly bogus. They go up due to fat people with diabetes and uninsured illegals. Bikers without a helmet would not cause a dent.


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## Hopping_Rocks (Aug 23, 2008)

Vtolds said:


> I bought a helmet before I even had my bike. It is super retarded to not ride with one, and if you smack your head during a crash you might actually be super retarded the rest of your life.


LOL, can I use this for my signature?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Poor kids with such an unresponsible father.


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

Curmy said:


> One effect of mandatory helmet laws - that I looked up on the internets, but it sounds plausible - is that it caused a shortage of donor organs, and more people on long term life support.
> 
> Whether that is true or not, it does not matter though. The insurance premiums "justification" is utterly bogus. They go up due to fat people with diabetes and uninsured illegals. Bikers without a helmet would not cause a dent.


My insurance will go up way more if I put a dud in intensive care rather than if I just have to fix part of his bike. Just a fact.


----------



## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

Hopping_Rocks said:


> LOL, can I use this for my signature?


that is actually really funny.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

laxman2001 said:


> Fair enough. But I do think Motorcycle helmets, just like seat belts, should be mandatory. Why? Because if I hit you with my car at 2mph:
> If your wearing a helmet, it won't be too bad.
> If you're not, you crack your head open on the pavement.
> *Bot* hsides win. You feel substantially less pain and suffering, I don't have to shell out for emergency brain surgery.


Huh?
I may be buzzed, but I dun stan this a tall...
here's a bot:









(I red thah thin, lie 15 times...still doe no)


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

laxman2001 said:


> My insurance will go up way more if I put a dud in intensive care rather than if I just have to fix part of his bike. Just a fact.


Now is that a fact?

How is that? My group plan is not affected when I get care.

Your dad is more likely to get into a cheap stay at the morgue without a helmet - dying a free man, instead of a prolonged stay in intensive care leaving you to nanny him from where the nanny state left off.

Insurance saving from helmet laws are a myth. Better encourage more people to bike, without scaring them to death with stupid helmet laws, maybe they will get less fat. Riding a bike is not a death defying stunt.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

NateHawk said:


> Poor kids with such an unresponsible father.


Who are you to judge?


----------



## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

Curmy said:


> Now is that a fact?
> 
> How is that? My group plan is not affected when I get care.
> 
> ...


I meant motorcycle. Auto, not health. agree that bike helmet laws shouldn't be mandatory, just motorcycle. (just like seatbelts)

The other problem is often that those who choose not to wear something silly like a helmet or seatbelt also don't bother to pay for something silly like insurance...


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

I still don't see how 'me' not wearing a helmet (motorcycle) or not wearing a seatbelt increases 'your' insurance...


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

I would be bored out of my mind with mountain biking if I rode in such a manner that I felt a helmet was not neccessary.


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

highdelll said:


> I still don't see how 'me' not wearing a helmet (motorcycle) or not wearing a seatbelt increases 'your' insurance...


if I hypothtically hit you at low speed (lets say side impact), and it's my fault...

My insurance has to cover it. I will be much higher premiums if it pays $2000 to fix your bike AND $10k+ when you get sent to the hospital with a fractured skull.

As opposed to $2000 to fix your bike and $200 or less for a new helmet.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

laxman2001 said:


> if I hypothtically hit you at low speed (lets say side impact), and it's my fault...
> 
> My insurance has to cover it. I will be much higher premiums if it pays $2000 to fix your bike AND $10k+ when you get sent to the hospital with a fractured skull.
> 
> As opposed to $2000 to fix your bike and $200 or less for a new helmet.


That's your argument!?
are you serious?

IT. IS. STILL. YOUR. FAULT.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

highdelll said:


> I still don't see how 'me' not wearing a helmet (motorcycle) or not wearing a seatbelt increases 'your' insurance...


No comment on the personal liberty issues here; just attempting to answer a question. Start here. This one quote summarizes the insurance business model fairly well:


> "...from the insurer's perspective, some policies are "winners" (i.e., the insurer pays out less in claims and expenses than it receives in premiums and investment income) and some are "losers" (i.e., the insurer pays out more in claims and expenses than it receives in premiums and investment income); insurance companies essentially use actuarial science to attempt to underwrite enough "winning" policies to pay out on the "losers" while still maintaining profitability."


Your rates, his rates and the cost of your accidents are all tied together in a web of distributed losses.

Given the size of hospital bills and other costs involved in serious accidents, the insurer will prob. never be able to recover the loss from just the person at fault; it has to be absorbed by the system. So if there are more claims and/or more expensive claims the companies have to make up for that in some way, either by finding more winning customers or by raising rates for all customers within certain categories. Guess which one is more likely

It is certainly not a direct or personal link. The behavior of motorcycles riders as a whole (or any other particular group) would affect the overall accident and injury rates and would seem to affect everyone's insurance rates no matter if they don't have the same insurer as you do.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

interesting...
but did anyone's insurance rates drop when they enacted the helmet or seatbelt laws?
I know mine did not.


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## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

Riding w/o a helmet = natural selection at work. I'm all for natural selection, have you seen Idicocracy?

I will continue to ride with my brain bucket and use my seatbelt.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

highdelll said:


> interesting...
> but did anyone's insurance rates drop when they enacted the helmet or seatbelt laws?
> I know mine did not.


That would expecting a miracle. These are businesses we're talking about here

Maybe they just won't climb as much in the future. Hard to say what would have been. And seatbelt laws were too long ago for me, so I have no idea about that either.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

thefriar said:


> Riding w/o a helmet = natural selection at work. I'm all for natural selection, have you seen Idicocracy?
> 
> I will continue to ride with my brain bucket and use my seatbelt.


agreed, 
I'm just against the 'man' tellin me what I can or cannot do to myself.

I buckle-up every time - and wear a helmet as well.
I can certainly see the attraction to cruisin' a windy country road sans helmet tho!


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## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

I'm also against big brother.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

thefriar said:


> I'm also against big brother.


Me too; I caught some of that show last night and it was terrible


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## AnthemRider (Feb 7, 2007)

Curmy said:


> Now is that a fact?
> 
> How is that? My group plan is not affected when I get care.


Boomn already gave the response I was going to make, but I do want to add that if you really believe this then you very well may have already suffered a head injury.

Just because your carrier did not send out a letter to all of its insureds saying "Curmy just received healthcare, you will see the increase in your next statement" does not mean that claims, especially large ones, do not affect how much the pool is charged for coverage.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but insurance companies are not benevolent organizations that just really want to make sure you receive the care you need. They are there to make as much money as they can by taking your premiums and investing that money. The more they have to pay out in claims, the less they have to use (or maintain their reserves - and as a side note, if they suffer losses in their investments how do you think they support their reserves?) to make more money.


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

highdelll said:


> That's your argument!?
> are you serious?
> 
> IT. IS. STILL. YOUR. FAULT.


yeah. but you don't go to the hospital and I don't pay as much. Sue me; I'm a realist, I may get into an accident at some point. I'm not perfect. I'd much rather it be with someone wearing a seatbelt/helmet.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

laxman2001 said:


> I meant motorcycle. Auto, not health. agree that bike helmet laws shouldn't be mandatory, just motorcycle. (just like seatbelts)


Even the proponents of the California helmet law admit that insurance "savings" used bill's author Floyd had been fraudulent. Since it went into effect fatality rate in accidents actually increased. At the same time number of riders decreased. Just like with bicycles mandatory laws have an effect of scaring people away.

Seatbelt law was useful in forcing manufacturers to provide an option. You can not just walk into a store and buy a seatbelt, or electronic stability control like you can do with a helmet.

I do wear a helmet, and seatbelt and whatever else I deem necessary. No big brother is required.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

AnthemRider said:


> Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but insurance companies are not benevolent organizations that just really want to make sure you receive the care you need. They are there to make as much money as they can by taking your premiums and investing that money. The more they have to pay out in claims, the less they have to use (or maintain their reserves - and as a side note, if they suffer losses in their investments how do you think they support their reserves?) to make more money.


Thank you Captain Obvious. You are missing the point that the increased overall cost of care without mandatory helmet laws is at best marginal and mostly likely is just a straight up myth. Internet search will help in your research of this topic.

People are better off just riding their bikes without any useless scary laws.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

highdelll said:


> I'm just against the 'man' tellin me what I can or cannot do to myself.
> 
> I buckle-up every time - and wear a helmet as well.





Curmy said:


> I do wear a helmet, and seatbelt and whatever else I deem necessary. No big brother is required.


my stance on the issue is this: I know that there are certain friends and family members of mine who simply would not "deem it necessary" to wear a seatbelt if there wasn't a law, and they prob would never wear a helmet if they were riding a bike either. Sure, its their choice. Sure, some sort of education might help them fully grasp all the possible ramifications of their decision (although some people are just set in their mind and will never be convinced). Sure I'm against big brother laws. But I don't want to lose those people i love and these helmet and seatbelt laws make that a bit less likely, so in the end I just accept these laws for my purely selfish reason. I like you stand firm for the ideal, but in practical application some issues just aren't so black and white for me when it gets personal. I guess thats a weakness


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## Barkleyfan (Jul 26, 2008)

Curmy said:


> One effect of mandatory helmet laws - that I looked up on the internets, but it sounds plausible - is that it caused a shortage of donor organs, and more people on long term life support.
> 
> Whether that is true or not, it does not matter though. The insurance premiums "justification" is utterly bogus. They go up due to fat people with diabetes and uninsured illegals. Bikers without a helmet would not cause a dent.


lol The sheep say otherwise. Sometimes I hear them bleating about tobacco killing off a moderate city worth of population every day, too. Bet Hitlers wondering how they get away with it. Gotta love people who question nothing from the sources they like, and challenge everything from the sources they don't. Dedication to the cause of the month and all.:thumbsup:


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## Barkleyfan (Jul 26, 2008)

NateHawk said:


> Poor kids with such an unresponsible father.


Dude, fer real?


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## Barkleyfan (Jul 26, 2008)

laxman2001 said:


> My insurance will go up way more if I put a dud in intensive care rather than if I just have to fix part of his bike. Just a fact.


My cousin wears a helmet religiously. Feels naked without it. When the Durango made a left right in front of him last year, his helmet didn't do jack to protect his spleen.

So should we go with full body armor, or outlaw bikes? At what point do we just acknowledge that $hit happens no matter how much precaution you may subject yourself to? My cousin is doing great today, and replaced his aged Katana with a blingin CBR 1000, a nice little R-6 project bike, a prime 2 year old Lincoln, and a new roof for his house, just because his spleen will be more prone to injury as a result of this wreck. So if you REALLY want to address your ridiculous premiums...give a shout out to your nearest trial lawyer.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

boomn said:


> Sure I'm against big brother laws. But I don't want to lose those people i love and these helmet and seatbelt laws make that a bit less likely, so in the end I just accept these laws for my purely selfish reason. I like you stand firm for the ideal, but in practical application some issues just aren't so black and white for me when it gets personal. I guess thats a weakness


I am not saying it is black or white. It is just there should be a very high burden of proof of widespread societal harm or clear and imminent danger to innocent bystanders if you want to restrict personal freedoms, and from all accounts helmet laws do not master it.

Do you like laws that had been adopted based on fraudulent data?

Ban sugary drinks for underage kids, if you want you big brother fix. Let them ride their bikes.


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## open_trail (Jul 22, 2009)

*My guess not long*

My story of ******* on martbike,i came across 2 that where on that type of bike,no helmet,on the top of a steep down hill,blocking the path and arguing about which side of the trail to,let take the right side no the left side and so on,i came on the top without blinking after excusing myself and went down the thing.:thumbsup:


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

Well, I tried taking my surprisingly reliable FS Mart bike on memorial, and while part of the problem was that is was too small and I sucked, it wasnt that great. I might try again just for the hell of it.


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## gdpolk (Aug 3, 2007)

I had a $300 Mongoose Blackcomb from Wal-Mart. Well, actually I had 3 of them in 3 days. None of them lasted more than one hour on a xc singletrack. Cranks fell off one, cranks loosened and fork died on another, and things just flat didn't work right on the third. Then I got a real bike. It looked beefy on the shelf...


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Torqued*

The cranks are cotterless and should be tightened after 25 miles. Pitty you didn't know that.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> The cranks are cotterless and should be tightened after 25 miles. Pitty you didn't know that.


The cranks should be torqued before the bike is put on the sales floor. 25 miles is ridiculous. Checking bolt tightness is typical for a first tune up as things settle in, but such a tune does not need to be done so soon. Most shops will do it anytime in the first year, but usually 100 miles or so of riding is about when stuff starts needing adjustments...assuming someone who knows anything put it together.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Wrong*

Typical of an uneducated engineer. The shop manual states 25 miles. How is the store going to do this once the unit leaves the store? The store has no control over what the uneducated owner does with the unit once they take possession of it and they can't break it in because then it would be considered used. If the owner breaks it because they don't know how to use it or have no experience maintaining it then that is the owners fault and not the manufacturer's. Fortunately the manufacturer has an exceptional warranty to cover most mishaps the owner may cause through misuse or abuse. The owner of that bike didn't know what he was doing and therefore caused his own misfortune with the unit. Now he thinks a well engineered and affordable product is defective and then in turn slanders the company that makes them.

People create their own problems most of the time and yet take no responsibility for their own actions. They always blame someone or something else. Do I think that bike is perfect? No, but I do think that for the price it is a great buy and had the owner been more educated on the components and maintenance of the bike he might have been satisfied with his purchase


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## Fiskare (Sep 5, 2008)

*I cheap bike lasts..*

,,,about a week. A bumped into a nice guy on a brand new costco 'mtb' bike. We chatted and that was that. I saw him a couple of days later - he told me how much fun he was having - he seemed like a nice guy and I thought it was great that he was having so much fun. Then a couple days after that I ran into him carrying the two halves of his one week old bike out of the woods. It literally broke in two, being held together by the cables and housing. He was flabbergasted - just couldn't comprehend what had happened. I very gently told him the truth as I saw it and suggested he visit a certain local shop and be prepared to spend several times what he had paid for the costco bike. He asked me what mine cost and was floored by the number. I was clear that this sport does not have to be expensive but that there was no substitute for a proper bike for the job - and that his costco bike was not an mtb bike regardless of what the graphics on the frame might suggest.

It was a shame and I never saw him again.


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> The cranks are cotterless and should be tightened after 25 miles. Pitty you didn't know that.


unless he was going 26mph on this 'xc singletrack'....it doesn't look like he made it to 25 miles.


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## Kneescar (Feb 26, 2009)

thefriar said:


> I will continue to ride with my brain bucket and use my seatbelt.


You ride your bike with a seatbelt on? 

This tidbit here bought a grin my face:



> Now he thinks a well engineered and affordable product is defective and then in turn slanders the company that makes them.


Well engineered and wallygoose in the same sentence, I'll be damned.

On the subject of helmets, Barkleyfan...you do what you want. I like the idea of personal freedom. If I rode with you, I wouldn't give a sh*t if you showed up wearing a sundress and a fez. I got MY helmet so I'm good to go.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Typical of an uneducated engineer. The shop manual states 25 miles. How is the store going to do this once the unit leaves the store? The store has no control over what the uneducated owner does with the unit once they take possession of it and they can't break it in because then it would be considered used. If the owner breaks it because they don't know how to use it or have no experience maintaining it then that is the owners fault and not the manufacturer's. Fortunately the manufacturer has an exceptional warranty to cover most mishaps the owner may cause through misuse or abuse. The owner of that bike didn't know what he was doing and therefore caused his own misfortune with the unit. Now he thinks a well engineered and affordable product is defective and then in turn slanders the company that makes them.
> 
> People create their own problems most of the time and yet take no responsibility for their own actions. They always blame someone or something else. Do I think that bike is perfect? No, but I do think that for the price it is a great buy and had the owner been more educated on the components and maintenance of the bike he might have been satisfied with his purchase


What are you talking about? You talking to me or someone else? It's totally unclear.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

NateHawk said:


> What are you talking about? You talking to me or someone else? It's totally unclear.


I have put that sad troll on ignore list, and you are quoting his gibberish in its whole. :nono:


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Fiskare said:


> I was clear that this sport does not have to be expensive but that there was no substitute for a proper bike for the job - and that his costco bike was not an mtb bike regardless of what the graphics on the frame might suggest.
> 
> It was a shame and I never saw him again.


A perfectly serviceable frame from PricePoint costs $80 (Sette Reken), he could have just moved his Costco parts (assuming it uses standard BB and headtube).

A perfectly serviceable bike can be found under $300.

It is not that expensive.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*General*



NateHawk said:


> What are you talking about? You talking to me or someone else? It's totally unclear.


It was a general statement. There are few exceptions notwhithstanding educated engineers.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Didn't*



Curmy said:


> I have put that sad troll on ignore list, and you are quoting his gibberish in its whole. :nono:


You didn't get it either? What was gibberish exactly?


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*LoL*

Indeed, he did not make it.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Nobody "got it" because there wasn't any point to it and it didn't make any sense.

Anyway, my big problem with those big-deparment store bikes is the blatent false advertising. They call them mountain bikes, they make them look like mountain bikes, in some cases they even make them look like downhill mountain bikes, and then in small lettering on the bike it says "not for offroad use". Blatent false advertising. What do they say in the newspapers? "Mountain bike", what do they say on the price tag? "Mountain bike". They put words like "EXTREME" and such on the bikes as well, again more blatent false advertising.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Indeed, he did not make it.


Then what on Earth is your point?


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*The point*



kapusta said:


> Then what on Earth is your point?


I think I made it quite clear. Perhaps you should read it again?


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## Kevin_Federline (Nov 19, 2008)

i think everyone is overreacting...


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

*How long would a Mart bike last on a good trail? *

The correct answer of course is a Mart bike should never be on anything even closely resembling a trail.


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

the south will rise again!!!

anyways I have a friend that bought a huffy full rigid cruiser (SS) that hasn't had any problems, the only thing that was wrong with it is that the factory didn't tighten all the bolts so the first day he rode it it was falling apart. I got it tighten up and its riding good. 
when he decides to get a better bike ill be waiting:skep:

As for the full suspension wally world bikes , some one posted this picture of an upgraded mongoose FS bike:










You get the picture


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Yeah but that Mongoose didn't come from Walmart. That is one of Mongoose's higher end bikes.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> I think I made it quite clear. Perhaps you should read it again?


Yes, it makes absolutely no sense. You are suggesting that he is at fault for not realizing he is supposed to check the torque on the cranks after 25 miles, but he only rode the thing for an hour. So there is no way he came anywhere close to that. Probably 10 miles at the most.

So, what is your point?


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Wow*



kapusta said:


> Yes, it makes absolutely no sense. You are suggesting that he is at fault for not realizing he is supposed to check the torque on the cranks after 25 miles, but he only rode the thing for an hour. So there is no way he came anywhere close to that. Probably 10 miles at the most.
> 
> So, what is your point?


The point is any mechanical device has to be broken in and tested the first few hours/days of operation. Is that elementary enough for you or should I make things even more simple for you?


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Everything*



Kona0197 said:


> Yeah but that Mongoose didn't come from Walmart. That is one of Mongoose's higher end bikes.


Another fine point made. Everything, if stressed enough, will break. Operator error/misuse.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> The point is any mechanical device has to be broken in and tested the first few hours/days of operation. Is that elementary enough for you or should I make things even more simple for you?


No, you answered my question: Your "point" was simply irrelevant to the post you were responding to. My mistake was in my looking for relevancy. Thanks for the clarification.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*LawLz*



kapusta said:


> No, you answered my question: Your "point" was simply irrelevant to the post you were responding to. My mistake was in my looking for relevancy. Thanks for the clarification.


There was a point, it was relevant to the post and you are the one that is unclear. What's wrong kid, nobody want to play with you?


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Hey MP..
why the adamant defense to the beloved mongoose?
Why get mad when someone calls a 'duck' a 'duck' ( or a 'goose' as is were)
Several people have rightfully called out that bike (or similar, as I did in another thread - somethinabout how much a good bike would cost - and you referred to me as a 'bike-snob')

A bike-snob I am not... If you know my bike (many do --I post it too often..), you would know that I am not a bike-snob.
I buy my sh!t budget style... budget mass produced frame, budget components, budget gear....
I have a Sette frame which has no new innovations to it. I run XT componentry when I could run XTR (truthfully, LX or SLX (or a similar SRAM) line would do me fine) - all my clothing was 50-75% off. - I'm a cheap-ass.
But I do research. I find the part that will fit the bill at the lowest price I can.
That does not mean, however, that I would recognize or buy anything cheap or inexpensive - just because it was.
There is a point where 'saving a dollar' just to 'save a dollar' crosses a threshold...you have crossed it.
I could stand by the argument that "Hi-Lux" cookies are just as good as "Oreo" cookies;
but I think sayin "O'Douls" is the same "Budweiser" - is wrong - even they're both cheap..


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*FrankenBike*



highdelll said:


> Hey MP..
> why the adamant defense to the beloved mongoose?
> Why get mad when someone calls a 'duck' a 'duck' ( or a 'goose' as is were)
> Several people have rightfully called out that bike (or similar, as I did in another thread - somethinabout how much a good bike would cost - and you referred to me as a 'bike-snob')
> ...


Yeah, I saw your Franken-Bike and I actually think it's cool. Get rid of the bull horns on it and it would be better but I also understand it is a matter of preference for you and it may not suit my taste. Nothing wrong with that. I do, however, think it's wrong to slander someone or their products when one doesn't even own one of them. Things change and so do companies, especially in the present economic climate.

A few posts up someone made a great point saying that maybe the companies should not market their products as "Mountain" specific but the point I think the companies should make is that they are "rated" for light, medium and/or extreme use instead of just painting extreme on the bike itself. So, with that I do agree.

The way you blasted my bike saying I was going to get someone killed kind of rubbed me the wrong way. The statement you(and others)made seemed to imply that I knew nothing, was dangerous and could not make a suitable decision and purchase for my own personal needs. No one knows my needs better than I do. I think I did just that as far as my purchase goes. My bike handles like a dream for me and shifts effortlessly but, as I have said before, no one should attempt _anything_ without proper training and research and then expect exceptional results without said training and research. That is just stupid(that was a general statement, I am not calling anyone in particular stupid).

A bike is not a cookie nor is it a beer. You really need to slow down on the metaphors.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

We slander Mongoose because of the crappy bikes they make for Walmart. Those bikes are unsafe and people get hurt.

Get a clue.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Yeah, I saw your Franken-Bike and I actually think it's cool. Get rid of the bull horns on it and it would be better but I also understand it is a matter of preference for you and it may not suit my taste. Nothing wrong with that. I do, however, think it's wrong to slander someone or their products when one doesn't even own one of them. Things change and so do companies, especially in the present economic climate.
> 
> A few posts up someone made a great point saying that maybe the companies should not market their products as "Mountain" specific but the point I think the companies should make is that they are "rated" for light, medium and/or extreme use instead of just painting extreme on the bike itself. So, with that I do agree.
> 
> ...


Wait... you're telling me to get rid of 'bull-horns'?
AFIK every bike in the line you support has them.

ANYWAYS, I may not own one ( I have before - A gift from my awesome parents who knew no better).
I have worked on SEVERAL...alot.
I work on bikes in the neighborhood (for free - yes!! I'm a saint!)
Many bikes I tune are the 'wally-specials' (2+ a week for a year)
That knowledge of the bikes, plus my family's bikes, plus my own experience gives myself credibility (as far as I'm concerned)


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Indeed*



highdelll said:


> Wait... you're telling me to get rid of 'bull-horns'?
> AFIK every bike in the line you support has them.
> 
> ANYWAYS, I may not own one ( I have before - A gift from my awesome parents who knew no better).
> ...


So, you are saying you have owned and worked on the Mongoose XR 200?


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*To an extent*



Kona0197 said:


> We slander Mongoose because of the crappy bikes they make for Walmart. Those bikes are unsafe and people get hurt.
> 
> Get a clue.


I would have to say that most of the blame falls on the inexperienced rider/buyer. To prove my point I pose this question:

Would an expert buy a Wal-Mart bike? If your answer is no then it is you that should "get a clue".

Oh, the 80's called and said they wanted you to stop using their sayings.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> So, you are saying you have owned and worked on the Mongoose XR 200?


well,
at one point I owned a 250 (pretty sure)
not a 200...so, no


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

don't worry about MP hes just a troll


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Nuck lives with his Mommie*



nuck_chorris said:


> don't worry about MP hes just a troll


 A troll is someone trying to start BS for no reason. That would be you.


----------



## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> A troll is someone trying to start BS for no reason. That would be you.


tell me MP how is your mongoose doing?


----------



## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Spend some time with head trauma patients. My friend worked in a head trauma rehab place, and after hearing about it for a while, I can't imagine choosing to ride without. It's not like breaking a leg or even snapping your spine and being paralyzed. I can change who you are. Seriously, some of these peoples' families would have been better off if they had not survived. They are not the same people anymore. It is some really sad, sad, sh!t.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Some people are just clueless. I think the reason MP is upset is because he bought a Walmart special and is regretting it.


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

Look, if MP is happy then let him enjoy is Mart bike. 

I would ask him is if he has tried a bike, even a "low-end" hard-tail, from a LBS to compare. I use to think Mart bikes were just fine. Then I tried an LBS bike, and it drastically changed my point of view.

42lbs, however, is absurdly heavy.


----------



## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Unless it is a Santa Cruz Bullit with Marazochi Monster T forks...


----------



## scoutcat (Mar 30, 2008)

Barkleyfan said:


> lmfao Wow, people never cease to amaze me. I don't wear a helmet, and I likely never will. If that makes you twitch, talk to your physician. Perhaps he can medicate your emotional state. Put that on your insurance providers back, and then tell yourself how I am driving up premiums in a rhythmic chant so it's more convincing. Click your heels together as well, it may just help maintain the illusion.


ive worked in a er. think about all the extra work you are coming in with a head injury:
1. ambulance with driver and medic
2. at least 5 people moving you into the er and getting you settled
3. at least 2 people to do the CT/MRI
4. one full time nurse in the icu
5. an md and residents tending to your care
6. the janitorial staff that cleans your room
7. the person to make your wheelchair or crutches
8. the physical therapist
9. your family now that they have to take care of you - wiping your a$$, feeding, and clothing you

thats alot of work for other people when all you have to do is put on a helmet.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Outstanding*



nuck_chorris said:


> tell me MP how is your mongoose doing?


It's outstanding and every day is like chocolate cake. After my initial break in and tune the bike has held up beautifully and I havent had to retune or tighten anything since. I use the XR for what it was designed for, casual and light trail use. Your concern is very kind I will send pictures along soon for I have made some minor upgrades.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Differences*



Kona0197 said:


> Some people are just clueless. I think the reason MP is upset is because he bought a Walmart special and is regretting it.


There is a difference between me being upset and you being wrong. I am not upset nor am I wrong. I happen to be a very happy owner. I also know how to take care of my equipment and what its limits are. You seem upset that someone(God forbid)is more experienced and knowledgable than yourself. My best advice to you is to gravitate to those who are smarter and more experienced. It will save you many hard lessons in life and may even extend it. Lessons learned from other peoples mistakes are much more gratifying than those learned the hard way. Although, the latter seems to stick better with those who are young and inexperienced. I'm sure once you lose some teeth or earn a bum leg you might say "I won't do that again", I, on the other hand, will just laugh at you.


----------



## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> I happen to be a very happy owner.


You would be happier if you bought a real bike from the LBS.



> You seem upset that someone(God forbid)is more experienced and knowledgable than yourself.


I'm not here to debate who is smarter or more knowledgeable but if you want to live in a make believe world go ahead.



> young and inexperienced.


I am neither young nor inexperienced. I've cut my teeth riding hard probably long before you picked up your first mountain bike.

How old _are_ you MP?


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Lbs*



laxman2001 said:


> Look, if MP is happy then let him enjoy is Mart bike.
> 
> I would ask him is if he has tried a bike, even a "low-end" hard-tail, from a LBS to compare. I use to think Mart bikes were just fine. Then I tried an LBS bike, and it drastically changed my point of view.
> 
> 42lbs, however, is absurdly heavy.


I have a friend that owns and operates a LBS. I went in a couple of days ago and cried like a little girl because I couldn't justify spending 6k on my dream bike:










Yes, the pedals are extra. And yes, I would ream the crap out of it daily until I broke it because there are quite a few tec trails near my home.

No, my bike doesn't weigh 42 pounds, that is the shipping weight. However, I understand if your little underdeveloped legs couldn't handle it. (joking so lighten up)

I have 2 lead sleds now I use as trainers. I wanted the extra weight for a reason. Perhaps reasons most would not understand but I don't blast other people for their choices, however, I will defend mine if I get blasted.

As a side note, I restore bikes for local kids that don't have enough money to even consider a mart bike. Some I sell and others I donate. I find that I enjoy seeing their faces light up knowing that they can now ride along with me if they wish, whereas before all they could do is watch me have fun. They have no desire to drop from a cliff or get major air, they just want some wind in their face and the bikes I restore for them are well suited for just such purposes.

Would you chastize a kid for riding a mart bike on the sidewalk just to see him deflate before you? If so, I have no respect for you.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Son*



Kona0197 said:


> You would be happier if you bought a real bike from the LBS.
> 
> I'm not here to debate who is smarter or more knowledgeable but if you want to live in a make believe world go ahead.
> 
> ...


You don't know me.
I'm not here for make believe.
You started riding in '95
I started riding in '74
I have socks that are more experienced and knowledgable than you.
I am also 6'1" 190 with zero body fat from pushing my lead sleds around every day(among other things)so, it is probably not in your best interests to "pick" on me because you never know who you might run into around Lebanon, Oregon.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*250*



highdelll said:


> well,
> at one point I owned a 250 (pretty sure)
> not a 200...so, no


250's were ok but I happen to like the 200's more(price, reliability, design and style)


----------



## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Too bad I don't in Lebanon. Hah. I was riding before '95. 

Oh and your post could be considered a threat.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Funny*



Kona0197 said:


> Too bad I don't in Lebanon. Hah. I was riding before '95.
> 
> Oh and your post could be considered a threat.


It could also be considered a bit of good advice to a youngster. Even if you were riding before '95 I still have you beat in spades, lad.

Furthermore, you are the one acting like a forum bully(read Troll)...silly.

Finally, who would listen to someone who admits to being deceptive?


----------



## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> You don't know me.
> I'm not here for make believe.
> You started riding in '95
> I started riding in '74
> ...


Kevin Bicycle!!!!!!!!


----------



## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

I like old school training! By lead sled you mean old clunker cars right? I've used this as a training technique myself, along with sandbag lifting and other improvised odd lifts. I'm also from OR, although I grew up in the city with all the liberals and hippies, not the ******** and farmers. 

In any case, back to the original topic. A coworker of mine had a wal-mart schwinn and started riding with us on real trails. And Vegas is pretty rugged if you've never had the pleasure. Although it quickly lost reflectors and such, the bike itself was good for 6 months or so. Then there were problems with the rear D and eventually a bent rim. 

With that said, 6 months was long enough for him to catch the bug. Although he went roadie the fact is he was 220 with a former chef's build, and now he's around 180-190 and looks a lot healthier. And last time he rode the the schwinn with me we passed a group of 4 on full suspension specialized mid-level bikes, going uphill. The total value of our bikes (I was on a $500 used kona hardtail) probably amounted to half or 1/3rd of one of their bikes. 

Remember kids, its the engine that is important, not the bike. If someone is on a wal-mart bike because they can't afford better or can't justify a $1k or $4k bike that is neither here nor there. Its their attitude that matters. I'd rather ride with an enthusiastic kid on a schwinn than a douche on a moots.


----------



## sherijumper (Feb 19, 2007)

If you guys are going to argue on how long you have been riding or brag about the crazy trails you ride then join Pinkbike .


I will admit , it is amusing to read though


----------



## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

I just wanted t jump in and wanted to say that any bike can break, even a really expensive bike. People ride what they can afford. If MP bought the best bike that he possibly could have then I dont see anything wrong with that. The Mongoose XR-200 is a bike, not a "Mountain Bike" the parts on it are sub standard and will be prone to breaking under the stress of the trail. My Girlfriend has a older mongoose bike, before they were distributed by walmart and before they made crappy bikes. I would trust it more off road that the FS walmart bike. And yes before I had my real mountian bike I absolutely destroyed a FS Next bike I purchased from walmart. Thing was fine for a road, but death on a trail.


----------



## KAHAIKAPU (Sep 28, 2008)

bikegeekjames said:


> Possibility # 1
> 
> Any bike wouldn't get out of the store if i had my way.
> I'd cap yo ass if i knew who you were.
> ...


Oh that is so funny..samething i would do lmao..need to clean my screen from the soda spray...


----------



## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> There was a point, it was relevant to the post and you are the one that is unclear. What's wrong kid, nobody want to play with you?


You just told someone whose cranks either fell off or came loose after what could not have been more than 10 miles (15 if he is a total bike stud) that he is at fault for not checking them at 25 miles. This actually makes sense to you? It's like charging a 16 year old boy with not registering for selected services within 30 days of his 18th birthday. ut:

Besides, if you are supposed to check the torque at 25 miles, then that means they should not fall off before then or become noticeably loose. If you really claim any mech. knowledge, it should be quite obvious to you that these were either defective or installed incorrectly, most likely the latter.

If the point you meant to make was that he should have gone over the whole bike and checked the build (such as the cranks being properly torqued), _before _riding it, then that is a valid suggestion, but that is not at all what you said. As others have said, THAT should have been done before the bike left the store, if not before it went out on the floor to start with.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Old School Training*



big_slacker said:


> I like old school training! By lead sled you mean old clunker cars right? I've used this as a training technique myself, along with sandbag lifting and other improvised odd lifts. I'm also from OR, although I grew up in the city with all the liberals and hippies, not the ******** and farmers.
> 
> In any case, back to the original topic. A coworker of mine had a wal-mart schwinn and started riding with us on real trails. And Vegas is pretty rugged if you've never had the pleasure. Although it quickly lost reflectors and such, the bike itself was good for 6 months or so. Then there were problems with the rear D and eventually a bent rim.
> 
> ...


Finally a reasonable, open minded biker. lol. I was actually referring to the weight of my bikes with the term lead sled. Your story was great and I am glad to hear your friend caught the bug!


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Agreed*



Vtolds said:


> I just wanted t jump in and wanted to say that any bike can break, even a really expensive bike. People ride what they can afford. If MP bought the best bike that he possibly could have then I dont see anything wrong with that. The Mongoose XR-200 is a bike, not a "Mountain Bike" the parts on it are sub standard and will be prone to breaking under the stress of the trail. My Girlfriend has a older mongoose bike, before they were distributed by walmart and before they made crappy bikes. I would trust it more off road that the FS walmart bike. And yes before I had my real mountian bike I absolutely destroyed a FS Next bike I purchased from walmart. Thing was fine for a road, but death on a trail.


Exactly my point. If you abuse any equipment it is prone to fail. If people were getting killed on mart bikes I don't think they would be selling 20 of them a week at every store in America. Surely, they would be sued out of existance.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*The Minute*



kapusta said:


> You just told someone whose cranks either fell off or came loose after what could not have been more than 10 miles (15 if he is a total bike stud) that he is at fault for not checking them at 25 miles. This actually makes sense to you? It's like charging a 16 year old boy with not registering for selected services within 30 days of his 18th birthday. ut:
> 
> Besides, if you are supposed to check the torque at 25 miles, then that means they should not fall off before then or become noticeably loose. If you really claim any mech. knowledge, it should be quite obvious to you that these were either defective or installed incorrectly, most likely the latter.
> 
> If the point you meant to make was that he should have gone over the whole bike and checked the build (such as the cranks being properly torqued), _before _riding it, then that is a valid suggestion, but that is not at all what you said. As others have said, THAT should have been done before the bike left the store, if not before it went out on the floor to start with.


You missed the point..again. The bike should have been tuned before the owner took it out and then re-checked at 25 miles. They don't hire tecs at the mart. If they did the bikes would cost considerably more...pfft


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Support*



Woozle said:


> Why diss anyone who's just out for a ride? Maybe a few of them will ride more, get stronger, buy better bikes. I spent my youth on a dept store bike that my aunt bought for me by saving every nickle she could (hey a kid needs a bike). Best bike ever


See thats the right attitude. Supportive. Thats what the real heros of the sport are doing.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Downhill*



f3rg said:


> Don't most/all of those fat-tired, dual-suspension Wally bikes have a label on them clearing stating they're not intended to be used off-road? I know I've seen the label on at least a couple, but I think I read somewhere that they all have them. Talk about a scam...


I haven't seen one yet that said "Downhill".


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> I am also 6'1" 190 with zero body fat


Then you're dead.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Hmmm*



Jayem said:


> Then you're dead.


Now that was a threat lol.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

uhhh....


----------



## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Now that was a threat lol.


No I think he was just pointing out with 0% body fat you would be dead, which you would be.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*whatev*



Vtolds said:


> No I think he was just pointing out with 0% body fat you would be dead, which you would be.


Doesn't matter what anyone says there will always be a smartass close by that takes everything litterally...


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

just like there will always be someone who exaggerates about themselves or their bike...


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*10 feet*



highdelll said:


> just like there will always be someone who exaggerates about themselves or their bike...


If I were to exaggerate I would say I'm 10 foot tall and bullet proof. And thanks my bike is doing GREAT! lmao. Don't be mad because you don't have one.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*lmao*



highdelll said:


> uhhh....


I would expect that you get confused a lot!


----------



## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

Awww, look at the little children bicker...


----------



## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> If I were to exaggerate I would say I'm 10 foot tall and bullet proof. And thanks my bike is doing GREAT! lmao. Don't be mad because you don't have one.


Yeah I think we all will pass on a Walmart bike. Thanks. :madman:


----------



## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

At MP: I'm sure that the bike is fine for your uses, but understand that it IS (even if the shipping materials weigh a full 4lbs, which I doubt) quite heavy compared to even a cheap LBS bike (short of the 7" freeride and DH monster bikes). And the components are of lower spec compared to said LBS bikes. For $200 I'd rather buy a used hardtail any day. 

I also highly doubt you've been biking since '74 or that you are in such amazing shape (especially considering your age).

At Everyone else: He's happy, let him be happy.


----------



## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

isn't there a full thread on the beginner forum about why not to buy mart bike?


----------



## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

I wrote a blog about why you should stay away from department store bikes.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Covered*



laxman2001 said:


> At MP: I'm sure that the bike is fine for your uses, but understand that it IS (even if the shipping materials weigh a full 4lbs, which I doubt) quite heavy compared to even a cheap LBS bike (short of the 7" freeride and DH monster bikes). And the components are of lower spec compared to said LBS bikes. For $200 I'd rather buy a used hardtail any day.
> 
> I also highly doubt you've been biking since '74 or that you are in such amazing shape (especially considering your age).
> 
> At Everyone else: He's happy, let him be happy.


I have already stated that I purchased a heavier bike for a reason.

The components function properly and for me that is priceless.

I prefer full suspension.

I'm not a geriatric. I hope to someday be one. Tony Hawk is in his 40's. Consider that.


----------



## EDizzleVR6 (Oct 4, 2007)

*heh*

about 2 years ago i was smashing a costco bike, a motiv bike around the trails of salmon falls and folsom lake, it lasted for a while but i rode it until it broke


----------



## DedGuyRidin (May 19, 2007)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> You missed the point..again. The bike should have been tuned before the owner took it out and then re-checked at 25 miles. They don't hire tecs at the mart. If they did the bikes would cost considerably more...pfft


So when the guys cranks fall off well before the recommended break in tune up, how is that his fault again?

A riders first bike should be the best he/she can reasonably afford. It makes a huge impression on the rider as to what the sport is about. Several of my friends have come out with me on easy rides, only to end up cussing at their bikes and throwing them in thee dumpster on the way out. I tried my best to fix their bikes issues trailside, but for example, one guys crank arm fell off, stripping the pot metal in the process. During another ride, another had the quill stem on his POS Roadmaster pull out as he tried to clear a log as the bolt had stripped, faceplanting him. He had to go to the hospital with broken nose and teeth. Neither ride anymore. If you know my area, its Wakefield park. Its definitely not a difficult park, smooth and rolling. A great place to ride cyclocross.

A few months ago, I came across a rider with a brand new wallyworld bike whose front hub had come apart; the crappy pot metal cones werent tightened and the bearings got chewed up, so he had to walk back.

Anyhow, bottom line is, yes the martBikes are unsafe, but more importantly, we should encourage riders to pick a decent first bike, even if its a $300 hybrid. Hell, craigslist has decent, safe bikes going for less than $150 all the time.


----------



## bucksaw87 (Jun 18, 2007)

oh, i dunno...i saw a schwinn at target outfitted nearly identically to entry-level LBS bikes i've seen. the combo shimano shifters/brakes, altus gruppo, RST front fork, Suntour SR cranks (same as my gary fisher). i don't exactly see how that's any different than...well, an old LBS bike.

now, next, magna, kent, etc? i had one in 6th grade with a floppier-than-heck front fork...bobbin' up and down while pedalling to school. i literally couldn't ride trails on that because i'd run out of steam WAY too quickly to be efficient at all, due to the pedal bob and the immense weight of the bike. the chain skipped like a motherfxcker, even with the derailleur adjusted, if you shifted too quickly, the momentum would carry over and hurl the chain off the outside of the chainring. all in all, that thing was a deathtrap.


----------



## Drth Vadr (Jul 24, 2009)

bucksaw87 said:


> oh, i dunno...i saw a schwinn at target outfitted nearly identically to entry-level LBS bikes i've seen. the combo shimano shifters/brakes, altus gruppo, RST front fork, Suntour SR cranks (same as my gary fisher). i don't exactly see how that's any different than...well, an old LBS bike.


There are many jarheads on this forum that think the same components on a LBS bike are better then those same components DPS bike. DPS ia a starting point and is like comparing apples and oranges to a LBS, but with that being said those same DPS sell better quality bike online and sporting goods store are carrying good entry level bikes that are upgradable. The fact is, it's all about the components, you can take good component and put them on a hardtail DPS and it will be just as light and perform just as well as a LBS hardtail. Leisure World Pacific brand bikes owns Mongoose and GT and are the reason for there new success. In the future, good FS designs are going to trickle down to DPS bikes and there is no new undiscovered material in frame construction, Minus a few high end frames their all made in China.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Drth Vadr said:


> ..., Minus a few high end frames their all made in China.


incorrect...
crappy frames come from China
higher-quality frames come from Taiwan

Also, good suspension has not trickled down to 'DPS' bikes - they are a poor facsimile


----------



## Drth Vadr (Jul 24, 2009)

highdelll said:


> incorrect...
> crappy frames come from China
> higher-quality frames come from Taiwan
> 
> Also, good suspension has not trickled down to 'DPS' bikes - they are a poor facsimile


Maybe I'm prejudice, but China, Taiwan, Malaysia all the same difference to me. If Taiwan is building better frames their still getting their raw materials from China. I don't ever think a DPS bike is going to be equipped with Fox suspension or any good shock or fork for that matter, but what I'm saying is the frame design is becoming more sound considering their are so many brands cross selling between DPS, Sporting Goods, and your LBS. Mongoose, DB, Iron Hores, Schwinn, ect.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

ok...I'm struggling to think of a good frame that's made in China.
I can think of a myriad that are made in Taiwan tho.


----------



## Strafer (Jun 7, 2004)

Drth Vadr said:


> Maybe I'm prejudice, but China, Taiwan, Malaysia all the same difference to me.


Using your logic, guess you don't see any difference between Italy, France and Germany?


----------



## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Drth Vadr said:


> Minus a few high end frames their all made in China.


Just because two frames are both made in china does not mean they are the same quality, or even close to the same quality.


----------



## bucksaw87 (Jun 18, 2007)

Drth Vadr said:


> There are many jarheads on this forum that think the same components on a LBS bike are better then those same components DPS bike. DPS ia a starting point and is like comparing apples and oranges to a LBS, but with that being said those same DPS sell better quality bike online and sporting goods store are carrying good entry level bikes that are upgradable. The fact is, it's all about the components, you can take good component and put them on a hardtail DPS and it will be just as light and perform just as well as a LBS hardtail. Leisure World Pacific brand bikes owns Mongoose and GT and are the reason for there new success. In the future, good FS designs are going to trickle down to DPS bikes and there is no new undiscovered material in frame construction, Minus a few high end frames their all made in China.


so...this DPS bike has the same shimano drivetrain that specialized uses, and the same crankset that my gary fisher has. it is a hardtail...so am i to believe that this DPS bike is the same as a specialized or a gf?


----------



## Drth Vadr (Jul 24, 2009)

highdelll said:


> ok...I'm struggling to think of a good frame that's made in China.
> I can think of a myriad that are made in Taiwan tho.


Stay tuned, in a couple of weeks I will be posting my sub $300 bike transformation build. And this cheap-o has seen its fair share of trail riding with zero failures. A friend didn't believe that it could be done, but then again he is Mr. Status Quo.


----------



## Drth Vadr (Jul 24, 2009)

bucksaw87 said:


> so...this DPS bike has the same shimano drivetrain that specialized uses, and the same crankset that my gary fisher has. it is a hardtail...so am i to believe that this DPS bike is the same as a specialized or a gf?


No it wouldn't be the same, but the components are what they are. You are missing the point. There will be no DPS or Sporting goods bike that will compete off the shelf with a Specialized, please. What I am saying is there a plenty of Sporting goods bike that are couple hundred cheaper then the LBS entry level. **** a $900 Fisher Pirahna is only eqipped with marginal components most of which I could buy on closeout or ebay for $.50 on the dollar. sram X-5 drivrtrain, m486 hydro brakes and a bunch of other middle grade OEM parts. Not saying that isn't good, I just don't buy the hype at such a low level. I have the same Hollow-Tech cranks and Revelation fork that can on some of the 08 specialized Enduros and I didn't have to Spend $3000 to get it and maybe that's the real point we're all missing. You don't need the LBS, but they sure as **** stink need you! Put Kona on the list of bikes found in sporting good stores.


----------



## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Highdell - Most of the LBS bikes frames are made in China.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Kona0197 said:


> Highdell - Most of the LBS bikes frames are made in China.


really?
which ones man?


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Dps*



Drth Vadr said:


> No it wouldn't be the same, but the components are what they are. You are missing the point. There will be no DPS or Sporting goods bike that will compete off the shelf with a Specialized, please. What I am saying is there a plenty of Sporting goods bike that are couple hundred cheaper then the LBS entry level. **** a $900 Fisher Pirahna is only eqipped with marginal components most of which I could buy on closeout or ebay for $.50 on the dollar. sram X-5 drivrtrain, m486 hydro brakes and a bunch of other middle grade OEM parts. Not saying that isn't good, I just don't buy the hype at such a low level. I have the same Hollow-Tech cranks and Revelation fork that can on some of the 08 specialized Enduros and I didn't have to Spend $3000 to get it and maybe that's the real point we're all missing. You don't need the LBS, but they sure as **** stink need you! Put Kona on the list of bikes found in sporting good stores.


I have found that most DPS frames, regardless of where they are manufactured, are quite good. It is the components that they go cheap on. So, I agree with the upgrade theory. And as much as I hate to admit it, Highdell is a pretty shrewd bargain hunter judging by his frankenbike.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*It is what it is*



Strafer said:


> Using your logic, guess you don't see any difference between Italy, France and Germany?


Steel is steel.
Carbon fiber and aluminium are what they are.
The point, I think, is how much craftsmanship went into the manufacturing process such as the welds and/or layups. Was the jig set up properly and did the tec just come off of a three day drunk or break up with his girlfriend? Those things will affect your ability to focus regardless of what country the bike came from.

Just saying.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Omg*



Kona0197 said:


> Highdell - Most of the LBS bikes frames are made in China.


Blasphemy!


----------



## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

So you are saying the "Made In China" Sticker on my last bike - Sspecialized Hardrock - was put there as a joke?


----------



## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Kona0197 said:


> So you are saying the "Made In China" Sticker on my last bike - Sspecialized Hardrock - was put there as a joke?


No, he's saying your frame sucks 

You gonna take that?


----------



## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

Kona0197 said:


> So you are saying the "Made In China" Sticker on my last bike - Sspecialized Hardrock - was put there as a joke?


Careful your wording that's all, because you are no longer arguing the same thing you first said. The fact that your bike was made in China does not back up your statement that "_most_ of the LBS bikes frames are made in China", which is not true because almost every frame at the level of your Hardrock and above (depending on the manufacturer) is at least made in Taiwan


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Kona0197 said:


> So you are saying the "Made In China" Sticker on my last bike - Sspecialized Hardrock - was put there as a joke?


No, I was going off of some anecdotal 'evidence' here on MTBR and other sources.
like this...


Kenny Roberts said:


> Generally speaking, low to mid level bikes are made in China and mid to high level bikes are made in Taiwan. The exception is carbon; many manufacturers use Chinese manufacturers to make their carbon frames - even their high-end racing frames.


I was asking you a genuine question earlier...


----------



## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

I think my RIncon was made in China, and my Trance X was made in Taiwan...


----------



## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Steel is steel.
> Carbon fiber and aluminium are what they are.
> 
> Just saying.


untrue there are different grades of steel and aluminum and different thicknesses of carbon fiber.

mart bikes are typically a low end series of aluminum and steel


----------



## bucksaw87 (Jun 18, 2007)

Drth Vadr said:


> There are many jarheads on this forum that think the same components on a LBS bike are better then those same components DPS bike. DPS ia a starting point and is like comparing apples and oranges to a LBS, but with that being said those same DPS sell better quality bike online and sporting goods store are carrying good entry level bikes that are upgradable.* The fact is, it's all about the components, you can take good component and put them on a hardtail DPS and it will be just as light and perform just as well as a LBS hardtail.* Leisure World Pacific brand bikes owns Mongoose and GT and are the reason for there new success. In the future, good FS designs are going to trickle down to DPS bikes and there is no new undiscovered material in frame construction, Minus a few high end frames their all made in China.





Drth Vadr said:


> *No it wouldn't be the same*, but the components are what they are. You are missing the point. There will be no DPS or Sporting goods bike that will compete off the shelf with a Specialized, please. What I am saying is there a plenty of Sporting goods bike that are couple hundred cheaper then the LBS entry level. **** a $900 Fisher Pirahna is only eqipped with marginal components most of which I could buy on closeout or ebay for $.50 on the dollar. sram X-5 drivrtrain, m486 hydro brakes and a bunch of other middle grade OEM parts. Not saying that isn't good, I just don't buy the hype at such a low level. I have the same Hollow-Tech cranks and Revelation fork that can on some of the 08 specialized Enduros and I didn't have to Spend $3000 to get it and maybe that's the real point we're all missing. You don't need the LBS, but they sure as **** stink need you! Put Kona on the list of bikes found in sporting good stores.


you're not making any sense...first you say that putting LBS parts on a DPS bike would make it the same, then you go right ahead and say that it wouldn't.

what i was saying was that yes, the target bike i saw had the EXACT SAME shimano altus drivetrain that i've seen on many specialized bikes, as well as the EXACT SAME suntour sr crankset that i personally have on my bike.

what you're saying is that it is the same, but it isn't at the same time?


----------



## Pokey_Racer (May 24, 2009)

This is getting crazy. Nuck beat me to the materials issue...

Besides, what about the warning stickers on the DPS bikes? I was in Target a while ago just to see if it was true, and even the bikes marketed as "all terrain mountain bikes" (with rear suspension, btw) had warning stickers clearly stating that the bikes were not intended for off road use. What's the point of that? Not exactly confidence inspiring...

I didn't check the Wally World bikes. I try to avoid that place at all costs.


----------



## Pokey_Racer (May 24, 2009)

Never mind. I guess that's already been discussed.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

I'm sure some of you have seen THIS before...
:crazy:


----------



## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

highdelll said:


> I'm sure some of you have seen THIS before...
> :crazy:


we said MOST , could they be rejected components?


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

nuck_chorris said:


> we said MOST , could they be rejected components?


well, according to some of the reviews, it seems like rejected components are quite a possibility.

(ps...Nuck, I think we're arguing on the same side ...*shhhh* )


----------



## McNewbie (Apr 5, 2008)

my 40-lb full suspension mongoose bike from target lasted me almost two years of pretty thorough abuse, though i did have to stop periodically and hammer out the chainrings with a rock and tweak the derailleur before every ride. then the derailleur hanger came loose when i was going down a hill and got caught up in the spokes of the back wheel, and that was the end of that bike. i liked riding it so much, though, that i got some good bikes after that.


----------



## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

highdelll said:


> well, according to some of the reviews, it seems like rejected components are quite a possibility.
> 
> (ps...Nuck, I think we're arguing on the same side ...*shhhh* )


yes we are , no mart bikes for me thanks , id like to add that the most people that buy and assemble the corsa don't really know what there doing and F*&K it up. I mean there buying from walmart ffs


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Wtf??*



highdelll said:


> I'm sure some of you have seen THIS before...
> :crazy:


How did you hack that crazy Wal-Mart page?


----------



## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> How did you hack that crazy Wal-Mart page?


no hack ,they sell it. never heard of corsa before:skep:

damn those smith and wesson sellouts:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=12016717


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*I stopped*



nuck_chorris said:


> no hack ,they sell it. never heard of corsa before:skep:
> 
> damn those smith and wesson sellouts:
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=12016717


Because of those two insane pages I stopped drinking.


----------



## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> ...I stopped drinking...


Dude, once you sober up and read back on some of the posts you made in this thread, you are going to be embarrassed.


----------



## Barkleyfan (Jul 26, 2008)

net wurker said:


> Dude, once you sober up and read back on some of the posts you made in this thread, you are going to be embarrassed.


Thanks for that. My monitor needed cleaning anyways.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*dude*



net wurker said:


> Dude, once you sober up and read back on some of the posts you made in this thread, you are going to be embarrassed.


If you want to insult me you will have to be more specific. And nobody says dude anymore pfft.


----------



## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> If you want to insult me you will have to be more specific. And nobody says dude anymore pfft.


no , everyone says dude but since you claim your an older man and "wiser" than us, you don't use it


----------



## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> If you want to insult me you will have to be more specific. And nobody says dude anymore pfft.


dude, nobody says pfft....


----------



## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

laxman2001 said:


> dude, nobody says pfft....


I make the noise out loud at my desk when I read these threads, I just don't type it out for you to enjoy.


----------



## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

boomn said:


> I make the noise out loud at my desk when I read these threads, I just don't type it out for you to enjoy.


pfft ...no you dont..........pfft ......pfft ........pftt....... pfft


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Lax*



laxman2001 said:


> dude, nobody says pfft....


Lax is always good for a laugh. I missed him for a few days while he was away riding...pfft.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Scout vs. Berkley*



scoutcat said:


> ive worked in a er. think about all the extra work you are coming in with a head injury:
> 1. ambulance with driver and medic
> 2. at least 5 people moving you into the er and getting you settled
> 3. at least 2 people to do the CT/MRI
> ...


Berkley just got SERVED BWAA HA HA HA HAAAW haw haww*snort*


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*whew*



DedGuyRidin said:


> So when the guys cranks fall off well before the recommended break in tune up, how is that his fault again?
> 
> A riders first bike should be the best he/she can reasonably afford. It makes a huge impression on the rider as to what the sport is about. Several of my friends have come out with me on easy rides, only to end up cussing at their bikes and throwing them in thee dumpster on the way out. I tried my best to fix their bikes issues trailside, but for example, one guys crank arm fell off, stripping the pot metal in the process. During another ride, another had the quill stem on his POS Roadmaster pull out as he tried to clear a log as the bolt had stripped, faceplanting him. He had to go to the hospital with broken nose and teeth. Neither ride anymore. If you know my area, its Wakefield park. Its definitely not a difficult park, smooth and rolling. A great place to ride cyclocross.
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks for making my point, again. Again. Redundant much? Again?


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*clicks and pops*



nuck_chorris said:


> untrue there are different grades of steel and aluminum and different thicknesses of carbon fiber.
> 
> mart bikes are typically a low end series of aluminum and steel


I'm just getting clicks and pops here..say something and stop drooling.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*spell check*



nuck_chorris said:


> pfft ...no you dont..........pfft ......pfft ........pftt....... pfft


Did I spell it correctly? I might have to google it lmao


----------



## sambs827 (Dec 8, 2008)

*breaking bikes.*



gnslr said:


> would be fun to find out, perhaps someone should buy one and test it, destroying a bike could be fun


I like the way you think, man. I would love to bust a walmart bike. Not sure I would enjoy the faceplant that might come immediately thereafter though. Hmm....can you say induction requirement for new club members?


----------



## boostedpgt (Aug 30, 2009)

everyone keeps talking about the "safety" issues on the really cheap mart bikes. but no-one that just started riding is doing stuff like 6 foot drops to flat. so it really is a moot point.

i grew up riding BMX, so i have broke more parts than i care to try to count. infact my nice heavy triple wall rims on my BMX right now have some very nice bends in them, haha. LBS bikes have there place, as with mart bikes, and also all mart bikes are not equal. i have heard nothing but great things about the $400 forge bikes from target, and i got my K2 from sports authority. so far my K2 "mart bike" feels every bit as solid as any LBS bike i have been on. but then again, my K2 isn't one of the $100-200 bikes either. my dad has a few year old next FS $100 wal mart bike that feels flimsy and just generally crappy, but it hasn't broke.......yet.


----------



## DavidNeiles (May 8, 2008)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kona0197
So you are saying the "Made In China" Sticker on my last bike - Sspecialized Hardrock - was put there as a joke?
No said:


> You got your info a little off guys, some of the best companies like Trek and Specialized are made in China, now the rule with the made in China Sticker or USA or where ever is that the country claiming origin has to add 60% or more of the value of the final product.
> 
> This is a great site that explains it all in great detail and even has a list of all the big companies and where they are made. Scott is made in China and makes some really super light weight bikes and has Giant make there frames! This is a must read. My Diamondback Sortie Black for example is made in Taiwan by A-pro and assembled in China, hence the made in China sticker.
> 
> http://allanti.com/page.cfm?PageID=328


----------



## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

DavidNeiles said:


> You got your info a little off guys, some of the best companies like Trek and Specialized are made in China, now the rule with the made in China Sticker or USA or where ever is that the country claiming origin has to add 60% or more of the value of the final product.
> 
> This is a great site that explains it all in great detail and even has a list of all the big companies and where they are made. Scott is made in China and makes some really super light weight bikes and has Giant make there frames! This is a must read. My Diamondback Sortie Black for example is made in Taiwan by A-pro and assembled in China, hence the made in China sticker.
> 
> http://allanti.com/page.cfm?PageID=328


yeah, too bad the bike pedlar is a crappy shop...


----------



## half_squid (Sep 20, 2008)

I've spent a considerable amount of time working on roommate's bikes, roommate's girlfriend's bikes, etc. Basically all the on-bike people I know. Some are low-end LBS bikes, some are "mart" bikes. I've got a pretty good idea of what cheap components suck, and which are vaguely acceptable. The thing that kills me about the department store bikes is that making them mountain bike-like makes them worse. Super shitty suspensions. Triple drivetrains on bikes that probably are never gonna leave the bike path. Mechanical disc brakes that are worse than any Vs I've ever tried. Steel rims with rim brakes. If I HAD to go trail riding on Mart bike, I'd probably pick a single speed beach cruiser and change the gearing rather than ride a dual suspension geared turd. Instead of building a super cheap Chinese copy of a Gary Fisher Joshua, build a cheap Chinese copy of a Redline Monocog and sell it for $125. Rigid, singlespeed or maybe 1x7. V brakes. Aluminum rims would be nice. Yeah it would be heavy. Yeah the wheels would suck. People are gonna buy mart bikes, at least they could have a choice of buying ones that don't completely suck. Plus it would make an ok town bomber campus bike for those who got serious.


----------



## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

GF Joshua. Those were the days. Always wanted one of those. And a Trek Y bike too.


----------



## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

Kona0197 said:


> GF Joshua. Those were the days. Always wanted one of those. And a Trek Y bike too.


I want a trek y-foil and a zipp 2001/3001


----------



## cannesdo (Feb 3, 2007)

My two cents:

1.) It's criminal to market bikes like that but then again look at all the processed, artificially flavored/colored crap approved for human consumption in this country, the poison they press into our teeth, half mercury, passed off as "silver" -- it's all criminal in my book. We as consumers need to understand that capitalism comes before conscience in this country -- pretty close to every time. 

2.) Our power as consumers lies in what we choose to buy, or not to buy. How we choose to divy up our resources.

3.) We choose too to be offended. No, it's not cool to paint every member of a group with the same brush, but some generalizations can be made about a good number of the members of any demographic. Including every one to which I belong. Your comment about Nascar t-shirts and (especially) beer (never mind soft drinks), where this particular segment of the population is concerned, rings true. I'm the first to acknowledge the cultural factors at play here but we all make our choices. I bought a $3500 bike but in every other way I live pretty simply. Hardly ever shop. Choose work that allows me to dress in casual attire, don't drink, rarely eat out. 

It sucks that those are the only retail bike offerings for the price but you do get what you pay for, and again, it's a choice. Kudos to Dad for getting them out on the trail but yeah, if that bike tacos and the kid ends up with a traumatic brain injury, I'm sure Dad will re-evaluate the "cost" of the respective bikes. 

4.) Anyone who, in any way, leaves a kid feeling inferior, who would break that kid's spirit, in the name of...anything...has no business engaging children, however good their intentions.


----------



## cannesdo (Feb 3, 2007)

Jayphus said:


> My lessons are not continous. Usually 2-4 sessions to introduce a young adult (usually an overwieght and shy one with concerned parents) to mountain biking and show them how to get out and ride. When it's time to part ways, I take the student to their lbs and introduce them to the staff. We test ride a few bike in the 400 dollar range and I leave those choices with the kid's parents, talk to them about the limitations of their current bike and why the lbs bike is a good investment in their kid's future.
> 
> I tell them about how I was an overweight teen; too weird for team sports and disinterested in most every physical activity. My self esteem was low, but I didn't know any better. My car was totalled one day and I had to dust off the busted mart bike in mom's garage to get around. That bike never failed me. I got the bug and bought a more expensive bike before I even knew what was "wrong" with the mart bike.
> 
> *All bikes are noble machines.* Even the cheapest mart bike can put a smile on a persons face or -like me and hopefully some of my students- change the course of their life.


Beautiful. *Yes. *


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Target*



bad mechanic said:


> Please try and tell me with a straight face that this is a noble machine:


Looks like one of them fancy city slicker Target bikes. Beautiful!


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

don't tell my that _you're_ making fun of this bike


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*You*



highdelll said:


> don't tell my that _you're_ making fun of this bike


YOU ARE A BICYCLE RACIST!


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Def*



half_squid said:


> I've spent a considerable amount of time working on roommate's bikes, roommate's girlfriend's bikes, etc. Basically all the on-bike people I know. Some are low-end LBS bikes, some are "mart" bikes. I've got a pretty good idea of what cheap components suck, and which are vaguely acceptable. The thing that kills me about the department store bikes is that making them mountain bike-like makes them worse. Super shitty suspensions. Triple drivetrains on bikes that probably are never gonna leave the bike path. Mechanical disc brakes that are worse than any Vs I've ever tried. Steel rims with rim brakes. If I HAD to go trail riding on Mart bike, I'd probably pick a single speed beach cruiser and change the gearing rather than ride a dual suspension geared turd. Instead of building a super cheap Chinese copy of a Gary Fisher Joshua, build a cheap Chinese copy of a Redline Monocog and sell it for $125. Rigid, singlespeed or maybe 1x7. V brakes. Aluminum rims would be nice. Yeah it would be heavy. Yeah the wheels would suck. People are gonna buy mart bikes, at least they could have a choice of buying ones that don't completely suck. Plus it would make an ok town bomber campus bike for those who got serious.


Define "considerable amount of time".


----------



## DedGuyRidin (May 19, 2007)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Wow, thanks for making my point, again. Again. Redundant much? Again?


your point was . . .?


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Start*



DedGuyRidin said:


> your point was . . .?


Start at the top and work your way down until you have read the entire thread to this point. Then pull all of your hair out while laughing.


----------



## DedGuyRidin (May 19, 2007)

I did. What I gather is that some people believe mart bikes are acceptable for mountainbiking. My position is that mart bikes are marginally acceptable for cruising around the neighborhood, and completely unsuited for singletrack. Especially considering that there are much better options available used.

I think that mart bikes are a waste of metal, even if it is just pot metal


----------



## canuckjgc (Jun 22, 2007)

This thread is so ironic. I'm certain the OP owns stuff that others would consider crappy and wonder why he gets out of bed in the morning. If you're spending money on bikes, then you are scrimping elsewhere, so let me guess:

- Crappy car?
- Crappy stereo?
- Crappy fishing rod?
- Crappy running shoes?
- Crappy swim goggles?
- Crappy [insert sports equipment] here?

In other words, there are many other enthusiast groups who could say the same about you as you are saying about the '********.'

So lighten up, not everyone puts biking as a priority in the budget.

As many others, I started with some heavy department store bike. Was still a thrill to have something.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> YOU ARE A BICYCLE RACIST!


huh??


----------



## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> YOU ARE A BICYCLE RACIST!


I dont know why I didn't see that before, of course Highdelll is a bike racist


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

racER!

...not really
(I've only done one race)


----------



## Zabrow187 (Aug 20, 2009)

The first mountain bike I had was a K-mart Murray. I got it second hand from someone, I rode the wheels off of it.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*hey?*



canuckjgc said:


> This thread is so ironic. I'm certain the OP owns stuff that others would consider crappy and wonder why he gets out of bed in the morning. If you're spending money on bikes, then you are scrimping elsewhere, so let me guess:
> 
> - Crappy car?
> - Crappy stereo?
> ...


I'm not sure if I should thank you for the support or be offended by your assumption lol!


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*love*



highdelll said:


> racER!
> 
> ...not really
> (I've only done one race)


I would love to hear the details, place, placing.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Murray*



Zabrow187 said:


> The first mountain bike I had was a K-mart Murray. I got it second hand from someone, I rode the wheels off of it.


Even I, of all people, would not recomend a Murray to someone.


----------



## canuckjgc (Jun 22, 2007)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> I'm not sure if I should thank you for the support or be offended by your assumption lol!


If you have the best of everything in all aspects of your life, I apologize :thumbsup:


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*lol*



canuckjgc said:


> If you have the best of everything in all aspects of your life, I apologize :thumbsup:


My bad, thanks!


----------



## JPark (Aug 12, 2009)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Even I, of all people, would not recomend a Murray to someone.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Just saying*



JPark said:


>


I am just saying some bikes are inexpensive and others are flat out cheap. My fans here(I use the term loosely)claim that _all_ department store bikes are horrible but the fact is some are better than others. So, where they would tell you to spend at least $1,000.00 instead of $500.00 or less for a bike I would say spend more than $65-$100. The ok ones start at about $180.00 and get better as you go up in price. Around $250.00 you start getting better components and around $500.00 you actually get a rugged and well designed system. Then as you keep going higher you begin to enter the entry level professional bikes. Around $7,000.00 you start getting bikes that ride themselves and write checks for you. Around $11,000.00 you start getting bikes that make women swoon over you even if your laundry is sour. God has a bike that is too expensive for anyone but after all, it is a miracle.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> I would love to hear the details, place, placing.


Whiskeytown Classic (on my birthday too)
3rd place
novice


----------



## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

MP - ALL department store bikes ARE horrible.


----------



## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Kona0197 said:


> MP - ALL department store bikes ARE horrible.


It's rare for me to agree w/ Kona - So I take the opportunity whenever I can 

I agree w/ Kona0197 :thumbsup:


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Gods Bike*

Highdell and Kona actually got to test ride Gods bike so they think they are special and it actually meant something.


----------



## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

just let it die already, department store bikes suck at going of road, this is the mountain bike forum!


----------



## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

emtnate said:


> I'm with woozle. At least they're getting outdoors and getting exercise.
> 
> Last department store bike I had, I was 5. It was a birthday present, which is at the end of july. The bike didn't make it to labor day before I broke the rear axle and tore up the prawls in the rear hub. So just because a toy is shaped like a BMX bike, does not mean it can be jumped like one.


I never knew there was such a thing as a real mountain bike until I was 36! I just thought the only place to get a bike was at Walmart or Kmart where all the bikes I ever owned came from.

In fact, it was when I wrecked my Wallie World Mongoose X75 and separated my shoulder which gave me plenty of time to google mountain biking which brought me to this website that I learned that there were real bikes out there.

I did my research and during my time of convalescence (6 weeks) I purchased a 2006 Specialized Hardrock Sport for $360 at the LBS that happened to be in the town where I worked. I was elated and happy that I had found this wonderful bike and that with just a little bit of education, I grew up into mountain biking at 36 years old.

Since then, I have sold my Hardrock to a friend at church who wanted to get into riding as I had purchased a used 99 Specialized FSR full squishy, 2008 Trek 7.3FX Hybrid for paved riding, and this year I finished my build on a 2006 Yeti AS-X for the good stuff.

However, most of us on this board rode Dept store bikes as kids I presume - I did because that is what the folks bought us kids. In fact, I even rode a frankenbike dept store bike that dad jumbled together out of various pieces he found and painted it a nasty, brown color with the paint he had left over from painting his old truck with. Yep, I rode that sucker like I stole it! LOL.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

Lawson Raider said:


> I never knew there was such a thing as a real mountain bike until I was 36! I just thought the only place to get a bike was at Walmart or Kmart where all the bikes I ever owned came from.
> 
> In fact, it was when I wrecked my Wallie World Mongoose X75 and separated my shoulder which gave me plenty of time to google mountain biking which brought me to this website that I learned that there were real bikes out there.
> 
> ...


RAWK ON! :thumbsup:


----------



## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

MP - I am at Walmart all the time and basically there are these brands of bikes: Mongoose, NEXT, Roadmaster, and Schwinn. Which of thse brands are adequate and which ones are junk? 

I have owned a Roadmaster and Mongoose from Walmart before. Not the XR200 or XR250, just the XR75 because I tended to be cheap at the time I bought those. In my experience, the Roadmaster was total crap. The XR75 was fine for a month until my knees started hurting no matter how much I adjusted the seat up and down and it rode like a ox. 

The bike didn't survive a simple slip on a wooden bridge a month and a half after I bought it.


----------



## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Cychosis*



Lawson Raider said:


> MP - I am at Walmart all the time and basically there are these brands of bikes: Mongoose, NEXT, Roadmaster, and Schwinn. Which of thse brands are adequate and which ones are junk?
> 
> I have owned a Roadmaster and Mongoose from Walmart before. Not the XR200 or XR250, just the XR75 because I tended to be cheap at the time I bought those. In my experience, the Roadmaster was total crap. The XR75 was fine for a month until my knees started hurting no matter how much I adjusted the seat up and down and it rode like a ox.
> 
> The bike didn't survive a simple slip on a wooden bridge a month and a half after I bought it.


Schwinn is probably your best bet for components and construction with Mongoose in a close second. Next brand seems to be for people that ride 3 times and store the bike for years or small children's bikes. Road master is a comparable brand and has a long history of quality. But beyond all that..well...read on.

The only two I have personal experience with are the XR 200 and the the Team DH. Both are Mongoose. Both are great bikes and a great value if set up properly prior to riding them. 
For around $200.00 the XR200 gave me reliable service and retained a lot of its value when I sold it. So far I can say the same about the Team DH at around $500.00. My next bike might be a Schwinn, Marin, Mongoose or GT. For now I am very happy with the Mongoose Team DH.

One thing to consider is that any bike you purchase, regardless of price or quality, will have to be tuned. If it has a cotter-less crank set it will have to be tightened within the first 25 miles to ensure that the crank bearings have seated properly into the bottom bracket. Make sure that the brakes have been properly adjusted and they stop the bike safely. Make sure the shifting system is properly aligned and is operating efficiently. If you can get past those problems associated with Walmart or department store bikes then you are ready to ride.

Once you start riding you need a basic understanding of the operation of the components. For example: only shift gears if you are currently moving the cranks forward. If you shift while the cranks are stationary you run the risk of bending or breaking one or more of the drive train components. This example is a good one because you can see why some people would call a bike cheap/junk if indeed they did not know how to operate the system correctly. But you already know all this.

There are low end parts and occasionally they do fail but more often than not I see instances where the rider makes a mistake and then blames the bike for the failure of a component. This is why I think some Walmart bikes are actually good buys because it isn't always the components that cause problems, it is the inexperience of the rider. Having said that also consider that nothing beats an expensive, well engineered bike that is specifically designed for your style of riding and your specific size/weight.

Now imagine you just dropped $2,000.00 on the baddest downhill bike you could find. You get on it and start to coast while changing gears and adjusting the seat. Something horrible happens. You blame it on the bike and take it back. When you get there you scream and complain at the bike shop employee about how cheap and useless this 2k bike is and how it almost got you killed and insist that it wasn't your fault.

Now, if you had trained on a Walmart bike and invested about $150-$200 you probably wouldn't be so upset if something broke. Usually the manufacturers warranty goes above and beyond Walmart's return policy. I have read stories of people returning half eaten cake and getting a refund. If you don't return the bike and give up, you fix or replace the bike(for free)and return to learning everything you can about the sport of bicycle riding. Once you feel comfortable and you can ride a bike *without destroying it *then you might feel like riding is something you enjoy and would like to move into more advanced styles like Mountain Biking or Trail Riding. These two styles require more advanced technique than just riding around a neighborhood and can destroy *ANY* bike, regardless of cost or quality, if done improperly.

People make mistakes yet pride keeps them from realizing that it could have actually been their fault. Instead they choose to blame other people or in this case a bike and its "poor" construction.

So when you ask me what Walmart bikes are good and which ones are junk..well..it is pretty much up to you because in my case I can make a $40.00 bike last forever or total a $3.000.00 rig in a matter of hours. Or vise versa.

Ask yourself a few questions like:
What do I want to ride? Road, BMX, Mountain, Extreme?
How much do I really know about bicycles and their components?
What are the load/stress limits of the components on a bike I like?
How does this effect my budget for the investment?
What is the most I can get for the amount of money I wish to invest?
What do I really need as far as suspension, reliability?
Am I going to give up the first time I get a flat from a sticker poking into my new tire?
Would I rather spend the money on the latest X-Box, a stack of games and a months supply of Yoo-Hoo?

Make your purchase based on how you plan to use the equipment. If your style is casual then get an affordable no frills bike. If your style is extreme then buy a sick rig. If you do not know yet then start small and work your way into a style you really enjoy and are comfortable with buy buying and selling your way up to your dream bike. If that works for you.

I can only tell you what I have done and that may not be the best thing for you or your style of riding. It works for me because I know a enough about bikes and how they operate. *Don't take my word, or anyone else's for that fact, about anything in life*. Listen to advice but take it with a grain of salt. Sort through information and do your own research because in the end you are the only person that knows what is best for you, your budget and your style.

I would recommend the XR200 or the Team DH because I feel like they were/are the best value for someone who wants to enter the sport without taking out a second loan on your house. However, eventually if you become quite good at your style you will want to upgrade as you progress. This could mean upgrading your current bike or selling it to put the money towards a new one. This could also mean maintaining one bike and one style until it is time for you to wear Depends undergarments.

Ride the bikes. As many as you can. Test them out and see what feels the best for you. Learn about the different components and arm your self with knowledge. Then base your decisions on a combination of good/best advice and what works best for you.

At the end of the day when all the smoke clears it is what makes you happy that is most important, not what others think might be best for you.​


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

> MP - I am at Walmart all the time and basically there are these brands of bikes: Mongoose, NEXT, Roadmaster, and Schwinn. Which of thse brands are adequate and which ones are junk?


There is no such thing as a good Walmart bike.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Kona0197 said:


> There is no such thing as a good Walmart bike.


That is true.

Why people keep replying to that sad troll? Just put him on ignore.


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## CajunAg08 (Jul 16, 2008)

*Magna = Junk*



Lawson Raider said:


> MP - I am at Walmart all the time and basically there are these brands of bikes: Mongoose, NEXT, Roadmaster, and Schwinn. Which of thse brands are adequate and which ones are junk?


Magna Electroshock - Ouch


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Expensive*



CajunAg08 said:


> Magna Electroshock - Ouch


Here is an expensive Mongoose Canaan Freedrive:










Looks like it didn't fare as well as the walmart bike.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Well at least that Mongoose Canaan Freedrive came with quality componets. You know - the ones that actually work and don't break?

Go buy yourself a real bike MP.

How about resizing that pic?


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Lawson Raider said:


> MP - I am at Walmart all the time and basically there are these brands of bikes: Mongoose, NEXT, Roadmaster, and Schwinn. *Which of thse brands are adequate and which ones are junk?*


ALL

I should know
I rode God's bike


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Kona0197 said:


> Well at least that Mongoose Canaan Freedrive came with quality componets. You know - the ones that actually work and don't break?
> 
> Go buy yourself a real bike MP.
> 
> How about resizing that pic?


X2

MP... why do you ALWAYS equate every mongoose??
Seriously...
you have to be a troll that we've all bit the hook on


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Kidding*



highdelll said:


> X2
> 
> MP... why do you ALWAYS equate every mongoose??
> Seriously...
> you have to be a troll that we've all bit the hook on


You have got to be kidding me Highdell. Are you saying the Canaan Elite is a junker too?
The pic was posted on MTBr so I just posted the link. I was just saying any bike can break regardless of cost and in my case I would rather replace a less expensive one if there is no warranty. You know..if I had the bike for years and years? It's a $2,000.00 tent pole now.

PFFT!

Seriously, is God's bike really plush?


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*clunker*



Kona0197 said:


> Well at least that Mongoose Canaan Freedrive came with quality componets. You know - the ones that actually work and don't break?
> 
> Go buy yourself a real bike MP.
> 
> How about resizing that pic?












*tink, squeek, clank*


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

Curmy said:


> That is true.
> 
> Why people keep replying to that sad troll? Just put him on ignore.


hmmm
how do I do that?


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> You have got to be kidding me Highdell. Are you saying the Canaan Elite is a junker too?


You dense tool

where the fukk do you get that?
You are ignorant.


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## bmf102 (Aug 27, 2007)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> *tink, squeek, clank*


haha, what a pile. Jump that piece of junk i dare you.....


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## VanHalen (Apr 1, 2009)

I have no problem with people riding walmart bikes. But I have the story you're looking for. We took a guy out riding with us (fairly new to mtb-ing), and all he had was a wally world bike. He was a natural at it, and the second ride we already took him out to a more technical trail (rocky arizona trail). The third time the rear derailleur snapped into the spokes, wrecked the drivetrain and rear wheel. So it lasted three rides.

Another buddy wanted to get into riding, but didn't have his own bike, and ended up riding our buddy bike for 10+ rides, which was getting uncool because he wasn't washing it or doing any maintenance. We also like to take other people out, which wasn't possible if he kept hogging the buddy bike. He finally bought his own bike. 

So point is, I rather want somebody to have their own bike, don't matter if it's a walmart bike. If you can't ride a walmart bike, you can't ride. Period.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

I doubt my bike is a "pile". Haro makes great bikes.


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

In the end, it's your butt on the bike so if you choose to ride a Walmart bike then it's your right to do so and all that. I see many folks riding Walmart bikes and I won't criticize them or look down on them - in my opinion, they are riding and enjoying themselves and all that. 

However, being a lifelong Mart bike rider up until 2006, I also feel that my LBS bikes (Specialized, Yeti, and Trek) are far superior and almost non-comparable to Walmart bikes in quality. That is just my opinion. 

Like I stated earlier, the Roadmaster I bought from Walmart was just not fun to ride - it sat dormant. It was not even exciting - I ended up giving it to a poor nephew of mine who'se mother couldn't afford to buy him a bike. 

I bought a Mongoose XR75, it was heavy as a log and rode like a watered down log. I slipped on a wooden bridge and it destroyed both wheels and the fork. I didn't hit anything with the bike rather just a simple slideout. Just imagine if I had taken it off a drop or jump, I'd be pooping Mongoose crap for several months afterwards.

This isn't trying to knock any user who likes Walmart bikes, I am just expressing my experience with them. To be honest, had I not had that accident in 2006, chances are I'd probably still be riding that bike because I never knew there was such a thing as a LBS or good bikes out there and that accident gave me 6 months to search about mountain biking and I found the light! 

Last year, I rode up to the trailhead when an old truck pulled up beside me, it was a guy and his boy, and they pulled their Next bikes out of the bed of the truck and proceeded to ride down to the trail (no helmets). I was more concerned they weren't wearing helmets than what bikes they were riding because as they were riding, you could hear the darn aweful screeching of their brakes a mile away in the woods. Just an aweful feeling.


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

cannan was a junk no matter the components, the frame was pure shite


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

After my XR75 made it's proud journey to the Ray County landfill, I was on my 6 week convalescense - No bike to ride and can't ride a bike due to having to let my separated shoulder heal up. About 3 - 4 weeks into my outage, I found a bike at the LBS in the town where I worked, a 2006 Hardrock Sport. I figured it would be a good bike when I got healed back up.

My wife was not happy, she exclaimed, "It is silly to spend more that $99 on a bike" because she thinks a bike is a toy. She couldn't swallow the fact I was going to plunk $360 on a bike. To be honest, I felt very wierd about spending that much for a bike too but I was a newb and a cheap-butt to boot. 

Fast forward 3 1/2 years to today -- I have spent $360 for my 2006 Specialized Hardrock Sport, $200 for a used 1999 Specialized FSR Ground Control, $580 for a 2008 Trek 7.3FX hybrid, and about $2,100 building up a 2006 Yeti AS-X. That does not even count the here and there trips to the LBS to buy parts and get minor fixes. 

Once I put my deirrie-aire on a real bike, I got hooked like a dopie!


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

highdelll said:


> I rode God's bike


So how was that 575???


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

I want to ride a 575! I just imagine how nice that bike rides given the fact that the AS-X is such a great bike--In fact, so much so that I want to be first in line when they legalize man-bike marriages! LOL.


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

net wurker said:


> So how was that 575???


I thought God rode a Mojo? Judging by the fawning here you'd certainly think so.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Nope, God rides a Yeti.


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## laxman2001 (Jun 1, 2009)

net wurker said:


> Nope, God rides a Yeti.


No, he rides a solid diamond rigid. That he rides on the most gnarly singletrack imaginable. 100 foot drops to flat, 1000 foot drops at speed...


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

What kind of bike does Hucking Kitty ride? I mean, this mad cat has railed the largest hucks known to huckdom. He would be an absolute authoritah on what a good bike is! :thumbsup:


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Denial*



Kona0197 said:


> I doubt my bike is a "pile". Haro makes great bikes.


Do you know what the early warning signs of denial are?


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Eruption*



VanHalen said:


> I have no problem with people riding walmart bikes. But I have the story you're looking for. We took a guy out riding with us (fairly new to mtb-ing), and all he had was a wally world bike. He was a natural at it, and the second ride we already took him out to a more technical trail (rocky arizona trail). The third time the rear derailleur snapped into the spokes, wrecked the drivetrain and rear wheel. So it lasted three rides.
> 
> Another buddy wanted to get into riding, but didn't have his own bike, and ended up riding our buddy bike for 10+ rides, which was getting uncool because he wasn't washing it or doing any maintenance. We also like to take other people out, which wasn't possible if he kept hogging the buddy bike. He finally bought his own bike.
> 
> So point is, I rather want somebody to have their own bike, don't matter if it's a walmart bike. If you can't ride a walmart bike, you can't ride. Period.


Can you play Eruption? Awesome guitar work Eddie.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

So MP tell me in your mind why Haro makes crappy bikes. I need a good laugh today.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Haro*



Kona0197 said:


> So MP tell me in your mind why Haro makes crappy bikes. I need a good laugh today.


Haro makes great bikes. Your bike is just old. Squeeky. Makes a tinking noise. You should have it checked at your LBS.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

My bike makes no such sound. Fork and shock are as quiet as a mouse. Drivetrain makes no noises. 

Nice try. Even if it did need repair I woudl repair it myself as I have the necessary tools and skills.

What's next? My friends '05 Santa Cruz Bullit needs work or is a pile of trash too?

Whatever. Quit defending Walmart bikes. You would be happier with a LBS bought bike.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Mouse*



Kona0197 said:


> My bike makes no such sound. Fork and shock are as quiet as a mouse. Drivetrain makes no noises.
> 
> Nice try. Even if it did need repair I woudl repair it myself as I have the necessary tools and skills.
> 
> ...


The mouse says: "squeek squeek"


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Well not in my house. Nothing on my ride makes any abnormal noise. That's another advantage of a LBS bought bike. Take care of the bike and it will last a long time.


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

Mongoose Pilot said:


> Do you know what the early warning signs of denial are?


do you know when to quit?


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Ga*



Kona0197 said:


> Well not in my house. Nothing on my ride makes any abnormal noise. That's another advantage of a LBS bought bike. Take care of the bike and it will last a long time.


Good advice. Does that advice work for Walmart bikes as well?


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Not really. Walmart bikes have cheap welds and low end components. They tend to fail after some serious riding.


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## Remy Darke (Mar 18, 2008)

net wurker said:


> Nope, God rides a Yeti.


You sure? I thought he rode a Turner since his name is on them.


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## JPark (Aug 12, 2009)

Kona0197 said:


> Not really. Walmart bikes have cheap welds and low end components. *They tend to fail after some serious riding*.


Sometimes before


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## dirtbiker1825 (Sep 24, 2009)

Had to register for this site just so I could post that, yeah, good bikes are nice. But, it's all about the skill of the rider. A good rider can ride anything well & even be smooth enough to protect the equipment and make it last, if necessary.


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## Remy Darke (Mar 18, 2008)

dirtbiker1825 said:


> Had to register for this site just so I could post that, yeah, good bikes are nice. But, it's all about the skill of the rider.
> A good rider can ride anything well & even be smooth enough to protect the equipment and make it last, if necessary.


So in that context any WC downhiller should be able to trade in his rig for a Walmart bike and still have it last a whole season?

Wish I had of had good pavement riding skills then since my roadmasters rims wouldn't stay true after 5 miles on smooth road.


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

Remy Darke said:


> So in that context any WC downhiller should be able to trade in his rig for a Walmart bike and still have it last a whole season?
> 
> Wish I had of had good pavement riding skills then since my roadmasters rims wouldn't stay true after 5 miles on smooth road.


yea he will just have to walk it down the mountain every time for it to last and maybe it wont break


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## JPark (Aug 12, 2009)

nuck_chorris said:


> yea he will just have to walk it down the mountain every time for it to last and maybe it wont break


I would carry it, just to be safe


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## dirtbiker1825 (Sep 24, 2009)

Guess I was thinking more about cross country, but I'd still contend that a WC downhiller could outride a novice even if the equipment was dramatically different. And, if necessary, the WC downhiller could make the stuff last as long as it needed to. It's possible to go really fast and be really light on the bike.

I doubt they get a whole season out of their bikes, riding them at 100%. More important to learn to ride than to spend thousands on equipment.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Nailed*



dirtbiker1825 said:


> Guess I was thinking more about cross country, but I'd still contend that a WC downhiller could outride a novice even if the equipment was dramatically different. And, if necessary, the WC downhiller could make the stuff last as long as it needed to. It's possible to go really fast and be really light on the bike.
> 
> I doubt they get a whole season out of their bikes, riding them at 100%. More important to learn to ride than to spend thousands on equipment.


+1
:thumbsup:


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## Remy Darke (Mar 18, 2008)

dirtbiker1825 said:


> Guess I was thinking more about cross country, but I'd still contend that a WC downhiller could outride a novice even if the equipment was dramatically different.
> And, if necessary, the WC downhiller could make the stuff last as long as it needed to. It's possible to go really fast and be really light on the bike.
> 
> I doubt they get a whole season out of their bikes, riding them at 100%.
> More important to learn to ride than to spend thousands on equipment.


XC could be an even more dramatic comparison. With the drivetrains on those bikes you'd be better off with a single speed.
The WC downhiller could only outride the novice if his equipment stayed together long enough to do so. No matter how good you are there's always an obsticle you're not gonna 
see and I'd prefer if my bike stays together when that happens. Using a bike outside of it's design range is always a bad idea in general.

Let's throw freeriding out there since it's hard on bike no matter what. Are you saying you'd trust a Walmart bike for that? Freeride forks and frames are monsterous for a reason and lack of skill isn't high on the list.


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

JPark said:


> I would carry it, just to be safe


screw carrying 42 lbs of poo, just throw it down the hill and get a air horn to get people out the way


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

Remy Darke said:


> XC could be an even more dramatic comparison. With the drivetrains on those bikes you'd be better off with a single speed.
> The WC downhiller could only outride the novice if his equipment stayed together long enough to do so. No matter how good you are there's always an obsticle you're not gonna
> see and I'd prefer if my bike stays together when that happens. Using a bike outside of it's design range is always a bad idea in general.
> 
> Let's throw freeriding out there since it's hard on bike no matter what. Are you saying you'd trust a Walmart bike for that? Freeride forks and frames are monsterous for a reason and lack of skill isn't high on the list.


I wouldn't trust a walmart bike for any kind of riding,especially commuting. MP you said you liked the extra weight for "strength training" , they have these things call weight vest ,belts and,straps.


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## Remy Darke (Mar 18, 2008)

nuck_chorris said:


> I wouldn't trust a walmart bike for any kind of riding,especially commuting.
> MP you said you liked the extra weight for "strength training" , they have these things call weight vest ,belts and,straps.


That's a little harsh, Walmart bike are fine for riding up the block for your 12 pack of Bud
and some McD's. One of my friends does it all the time on his Power X. 
Of course the bike has no shifters. no brakes and 24" wheels since the 26's fell apart and
all I had around was some 24's from my nieces old bike.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Warn*



nuck_chorris said:


> screw carrying 42 lbs of poo, just throw it down the hill and get a air horn to get people out the way


Why even warn them?


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

Remy Darke said:


> That's a little harsh, Walmart bike are fine for riding up the block for your 12 pack of Bud
> and some McD's. One of my friends does it all the time on his Power X.
> Of course the bike has no shifters. no brakes and 24" wheels since the 26's fell apart and
> all I had around was some 24's from my nieces old bike.


no but having to depend on it everyday to commute to work, id probably pass out having to walk all 6 miles back to the house.


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## bucksaw87 (Jun 18, 2007)

did everybody in this thread miss the sticker on walmart bikes that says "do not ride this bike off road"?

they're not friggin' made to withstand the abuse of a LBS bike, plain and simple. they're made for little kids who ride bikes around the RV park and race around their cul-de-sac at home, and their parents who want to hang a bike up in the garage.


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## Oracle7775 (Oct 31, 2008)

bad mechanic said:


> Please try and tell me with a straight face that this is a noble machine:


Wow, I tried counting all of the individual pieces of tubing on this sucker, and I literally lost count.

What could go wrong? I mean, it's not like there's a lot of welds that could potentially fail, right?


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## Oracle7775 (Oct 31, 2008)

"Just imagine if I had taken it off a drop or jump, I'd be pooping Mongoose crap for several months afterwards."

Lawson Raider, that was funny.


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

I had to deal with fixing one of these:










the bars had somehow rotated forward and screwed up the gearing, it takes like 100 ft to brake this bastard when i put full force on the lever. its a maxim mgx (mongoose) . that thing squeaked like no other.


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

I think I heards a story on the internets that a Navy Frigate lost an anchor off the Gulf Coast 2 years ago and needed a quick fix to keep them in operation. One of the sailor's happened to have a Walmart bike down in the hangar area and they tied a chain to the bike, tossed it overboard, and waalah! Problem solved until a replacement hangar arrived.


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

Lawson Raider said:


> I think I heards a story on the internets that a Navy Frigate lost an anchor off the Gulf Coast 2 years ago and needed a quick fix to keep them in operation. One of the sailor's happened to have a Walmart bike down in the hangar area and they tied a chain to the bike, tossed it overboard, and waalah! Problem solved until a replacement hangar arrived.


there is a good use for them, a large paper weight!


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## Hopping_Rocks (Aug 23, 2008)

Oracle7775 said:


> Wow, I tried counting all of the individual pieces of tubing on this sucker, and I literally lost count.
> 
> What could go wrong? I mean, it's not like there's a lot of welds that could potentially fail, right?


I think that If they wanted to make it a little(very little) bit stronger, they could have had the downtube actually extend all the way from the bottom bracket to the headtube. That would eliminate the need for the little tube going from the headtube to the "upper downtube" on that thing. Still, it has too many welds.


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## Mongoose Pilot (Jun 30, 2009)

*Tape*



Hopping_Rocks said:


> I think that If they wanted to make it a little(very little) bit stronger, they could have had the downtube actually extend all the way from the bottom bracket to the headtube. That would eliminate the need for the little tube going from the headtube to the "upper downtube" on that thing. Still, it has too many welds.


Bar tape has a load limit, maybe that would help!


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

nuck_chorris said:


> I had to deal with fixing one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those Walmart bikes squeek so badly that you could be riding one of those in the woods in Missouri and a dolphin swimming on the East Coast could find you by ecolocation.


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## Remy Darke (Mar 18, 2008)

Lawson Raider said:


> Those Walmart bikes squeek so badly that you could be riding one of those in the woods in Missouri and a dolphin swimming on the East Coast could find you by ecolocation.


So true. I can hear my buddies Power X way before he rides into the yard.

Our county just started a re-cycle program where they give away all the bikes brought to
the landfill. I've though about checking to see if I can find him a better frame there. 
Since I got the Power X out of the trash it'd be pretty fitting to get him an upgrade there too.


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