# Half-link troubles



## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

So, my LBS hooked me up with a bit of Shadow Conspiracy half-link chain for my SS conversion (way to go, Gearhead!). And I'm using it just as a tensioner, I was thinking of taking out one link from that and putting it on my current chain, per SS usage. Except I'm having a few issues:

1. The half-link chain is bending the pin on my chain tool (Park CT-5). It's a replaceable pin, so I'm thinking I may just need a burlier tool?

2. I can't even break the half-link. It doesn't fit in the proper cradle in the chain tool, so I'm using the wrong one. Once again, is there supposed to be a different chain tool for a half link?

3. The half-link doesn't even seem to fit my current chain. I'm running some SRAM 8spd chain, and even the correct links on the SRAM don't seem to fit the half-link, there's a bit of side-to-side play. I also don't know if I'm supposed to use the rollers from the SRAM chain or the half-link chain. I tried both.

Thoughts? I feel like a noob, but I need to get riding mtb again. I had knee surgery in Decmember, and I'm going to be cleared for mtbing in a few weeks!


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Toss the SC chain and buy a real half-link. Get the Gusset Slink Half Link. All others (that I know of, anyway) pale in comparison.

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=22297

--sParty


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll keep it in mind if I ever decide to look for real performance parts. Right now I'm trying to save money and just use what works, so I'm more concerned with why it isn't working right now and trying to fix that, rather than spending more money that I don't have. Is the half link you posted the same as a half-link chain, Sparticus?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

erik1245 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, I'll keep it in mind if I ever decide to look for real performance parts. Right now I'm trying to save money and just use what works, so I'm more concerned with why it isn't working right now and trying to fix that, rather than spending more money that I don't have. Is the half link you posted the same as a half-link chain, Sparticus?


No, not the same. I've never used a chain made entirely of half links because I've heard so many people who've tried them say they stretch a lot, and rapidly. Well, that and one half link in a chain accomplishes the same thing as many, so I don't see a reason to employ more than one.

I have tried another half link besides the Gusset Slink and was not happy with the way it bound my chain. It caused a tight link, this happened more than once with the KMC half links I used.

Best of luck with your situation.

--sParty


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

I'd still recommend the better gusset half-link too, but your current problems are all because that half-link chain you got is an 1/8" chain. The ct-5 chain tool is only designed for the thinner chains used with derailleurs. The shelf and pin are not designed for the wider 1/8" bmx/ss chains. You will need a different chain tool for that chain, such as the ct-7. The width of these 1/8" links is what makes them not fit your 3/32" 8spd chain either


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I am a BMX rider and the Shadow chains are notorious for being trash. they last a long time in that it's really hard to break them, but they stretch really fast and will wear out your cogs. if you're getting a half-link chain to fit a frame with little room for chain tensioning, the Interlock chain is only going to fit well for a few rides, then it will stretch a ton and fall off. you could achieve the same thing with a cheaper eight-speed chain and a single half-link and it would last longer to boot.

to break one of those chain, you need TSC's chain tool or a Park CT-7.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Order two of these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013CVW56/ref=oss_T15_product

And one of these in 3/32:
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=22297

Then simply use the two KMC master links to join the Gusset half link into your chain. Make sure the flat side of the Gusset half link faces away from the teeth. It's easy, works seamlessly, and is very durable. The only downside is it costs a little more, but quality usually does, and I always order several at a time to save on shipping.

Every 3/32 half link I tried, and I think I've tried them all, is slightly too wide to be used in a multispeed 3/32 chain. The master link I listed, however, is slightly wider than normal so they play nicely with the half link, and the slight added width isn't a problem with the narrower multispeed chains since the difference is so small.

Just spend the little bit of money and do it right the first time. Have a chain break on you can really suck.


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

Cool beans, people. Hey Mack, did you realize that this is a mountain biking forum, not a BMX forum?  

I was beginning to get the idea that I needed a singlespeed chain and bigger chain tool. Now the Gusset link looks like the cheapest route. I could always keep the derailleur as a tensioner as I've been doing, but I want a cleaner-looking bike.

Bad mechanic, I suppose I should've mentioned that I'm currently running a MasterLink right now. Will that still work with the set-up you mentioned? Wait, I think I got it. I use the masterlink on one side of the Gusset, and just one of those KMC masterlinks on the other side of the Gusset?


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

It depends on the master link you're currently using; what is it?


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

It's this kind, except gold and in 8spd edition.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

isn't gold only used by SRAM for the 9spd powerlinks? All my 8spd links are silver and my my 9spd links are gold


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

I don't know, sure, just going off memory. I know it's 8 speed.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

It won't work because it's too narrow. Buy two of the KMC master links.


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

I think your over-thinking this. The idea of using the Shadow Conspiracy half-link from a half link chain has all the problems you named. The two biggest problems was 1) you'd have to buy a different chain breaker (not necessarily the pricey Shadow Conspiracy, but a $6-7 old school breaker) and the Shadow Conspiracy chain is 1/8 and you are using a 3/32 chain. 
If you want to use a half link grab a KMC 3/32 half link and attach it to SRAM 8 sp chain. The odds are it may still be too wide to use a power link, so just put the half link in the middle of the chain. The Gusset Slink link is a great product, but not as easy to find as a KMC and twice the price. The end result is a $2 half link that will work with your chain and current tool, without having to put out any more money.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

aka brad said:


> ... The Gusset Slink link is a great product, but not as easy to find as a KMC and twice the price. ...


Brutha Brad, I've used that miserable KMC 3/32" half link... and never again. Maybe the Gusset Slink costs twice as much but it's worth 100 times as much. The KMC is garbage -- impossible to utilize it without is causing a tight link. Total garbage, uh huh.

--sParty


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

As Mr. Sparticus said, the KMC link is rubbish. Additionally, you cannot use it with a SRAM or Shimano 8 speed chain since a Power Link or master pin won't fit it (too wide). You also can't just put it in the middle of the chain since then you're not only pressing out a pin and pushing it back in (thus weakening the chain), but you're also now using a pin which is too short due to the KMC's width. Trust me, I've been down that road, and it's paved with tears and busted knees.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

Hate to pile it on but the only chain break I've had in recent history was a KMC half link that peeled apart because the SRAM pin wasn't long enough


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

bad mechanic said:


> As Mr. Sparticus said, the KMC link is rubbish. Additionally, you cannot use it with a SRAM or Shimano 8 speed chain since a Power Link or master pin won't fit it (too wide). You also can't just put it in the middle of the chain since then you're not only pressing out a pin and pushing it back in (thus weakening the chain), but you're also now using a pin which is too short due to the KMC's width. Trust me, I've been down that road, and it's paved with tears and busted knees.


 The Half link will certainty be the weakest part of the chain, but the times I have used them they worked fine, with no tight links and while pressing a pin in and out does weaken the link a bit, it is what was done on bicycle chains for over 100 years and worked much more often than not (I've never had one fail), even with riveted pins (i.e. the high end Regina chains). Saying that you do need to take care with what your doing and know how to reverse the chain in the chain tool to release the tension. You also need to remember that erik1245 said money was an issue..



boomn said:


> Hate to pile it on but the only chain break I've had in recent history was a KMC half link that peeled apart because the SRAM pin wasn't long enough


Perhaps you missed the part about not using a Power Link with the half link..

The below photo is a KMC half link currently being used with a KMC Z51 8 speed chain on my dingle speed (I actually ordered a Gusset Slink link for that purpose, but Universal emailed back they were out). I used a similar KMC setup with my old Bonty SS conversion with an 1/8" half link and never had a problem.


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

aka brad said:


> The Half link will certainty be the weakest part of the chain, but the times I have used them they worked fine, with no tight links and while pressing a pin in and out does weaken the link a bit, it is what was ..... a problem.


That's one grungy chain man. 

I'd rather go with the majority here. I know all of you are frequent posters in the SS forum, so I doubt it's just a "pick a side and go with it" situation. If it is, well, it's a good side. 

I did say money is something to keep in mind, but I spend more on food and snacks every week than I would with the Gusset and the two masterlinks. I could go without those extra calories anyways.  Besides, if I used the KMC half link I would have to get me some chain pins, and my LBS sells them pretty expensive. So I'mma order that Gusset and those half links soon, I just don't trust this computer to enter my card info. Thanks peoples.

If you want to continue to argue (or debate  ) the various half links, by all means go ahead.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

aka brad said:


> The Half link will certainty be the weakest part of the chain, but the times I have used them they worked fine, with no tight links and while pressing a pin in and out does weaken the link a bit, it is what was done on bicycle chains for over 100 years and worked much more often than not (I've never had one fail), even with riveted pins (i.e. the high end Regina chains).


The Gusset half link won't be the weakest part.

Yes, that's been done for over 100 years, but modern chains aren't like the same as vintage chains. On high quality modern multi-speed chains the ends of the pins are peened, so they mushroom out. When they're pushed out, they themselves not only deform, but they deform the plates they're pushed through as well, creating a severe weak spot.

I've personally tried using your method with a KMC half link and a SRAM 8spd chain, and it broke on me right at the pin.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

aka brad said:


> Perhaps you missed the part about not using a Power Link with the half link..


I never said that I did. Mine was away from the PowerLink. It's been 2 years since that incident so maybe I'm not remembering it or describing it 100% correctly. I had a heck of a time with my chain tool going back and forth to get the KMC link to not bind and not have the plates at the very end of the pin to do so. It was all for naught because on the first ride the pin joint failed and it peeled apart.

Maybe that KMC chain you paired it with is the answer because I've tried installing these links on SRAM and Shimano 8spd chains and they have never worked correctly.


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

erik1245 said:


> That's one grungy chain man....Besides, if I used the KMC half link I would have to get me some chain pins, and my LBS sells them pretty expensive.


No, there is no need to buy a pin, the half link comes with a pin and you press out the pin on your chain (not all the way, just enough to remove a link), insert the half link and push the pin back through.



bad mechanic said:


> Yes, that's been done for over 100 years, but modern chains aren't like the same as vintage chains. On high quality modern multi-speed chains the ends of the pins are peened, so they mushroom out. When they're pushed out, they themselves not only deform, but they deform the plates they're pushed through as well, creating a severe weak spot.


I've always found this debate more theoretical. I am holding a SRAM PC58 (peened and mushroomed) in one grimy hand and a caliper in the other. After pressing out a pin, the side plate holes measure 3.6mm with no sign of deformation, the pin at the end pushed through measures 3.65mm, and the mushroomed end measures about 3.7mm (the peening does not created a symmetrical mushroom so I took and average).I find the deforming theory tends to ignore the result of elastic deformation, meaning after pushing a mushroomed pin through a side plate both will return near it's previous shape and size; it does little more than decreasing the mushroomed pin that was pushed through the side plate by .05. I think your stating this is a "severe weak spot" is an overstatement.



boomn said:


> I never said that I did. Mine was away from the PowerLink. It's been 2 years since that incident so maybe I'm not remembering it or describing it 100% correctly. I had a heck of a time with my chain tool going back and forth to get the KMC link to not bind and not have the plates at the very end of the pin to do so. It was all for naught because on the first ride the pin joint failed and it peeled apart.
> 
> Maybe that KMC chain you paired it with is the answer because I've tried installing these links on SRAM and Shimano 8spd chains and they have never worked correctly.


I've always found this to be a lively debate and yes, using the KMC chain could be a factor, but I have also used these half links Shimano HG chains without incident.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

aka brad said:


> I've always found this debate more theoretical. I am holding a SRAM PC58 (peened and mushroomed) in one grimy hand and a caliper in the other. After pressing out a pin, the side plate holes measure 3.6mm with no sign of deformation, the pin at the end pushed through measures 3.65mm, and the mushroomed end measures about 3.7mm (the peening does not created a symmetrical mushroom so I took and average).I find the deforming theory tends to ignore the result of elastic deformation, meaning after pushing a mushroomed pin through a side plate both will return near it's previous shape and size; it does little more than decreasing the mushroomed pin that was pushed through the side plate by .05. I think your stating this is a "severe weak spot" is an overstatement.


I've pressed out a lot of links from SRAM 8 speed chains when cutting them to size. Probably about 1/3 of the time I get a sliver of metal off the chain from pressing the pin through. My experience, from quite a bit more than just one chain, says there is damage when the pin is pressed out. Additionally, as I mentioned previously, I've had a chain break exactly where I'd pressed out a pin on a PC58 to connect a half link. It's not theory for me, it's practical experience.


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

bad mechanic said:


> I've pressed out a lot of links from SRAM 8 speed chains when cutting them to size. Probably about 1/3 of the time I get a sliver of metal off the chain from pressing the pin through. My experience, from quite a bit more than just one chain, says there is damage when the pin is pressed out. Additionally, as I mentioned previously, I've had a chain break exactly where I'd pressed out a pin on a PC58 to connect a half link. It's not theory for me, it's practical experience.


I guess we'll settle this by saying I have made it work, but it has not worked for you. Good enough for me. I'll go a step further and say, if you are not familiar with trying to make this work, your probably better off not trying it. BTW, the only sliver of metal I have ever seen has come off the pin in the chain tool, not the side plates or chain pin, but I appear to be very biased.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

erik1245 said:


> Cool beans, people. Hey Mack, did you realize that this is a mountain biking forum, not a BMX forum?


i ride BMX and SS mtb. since I am new to mtb and i have been around bmx for over 15 years, i have found that TSC Interlock chain has been around and popular among bmx riders for a few years and they are slowly turning against it. TSC is a bmx company and they designed this chain to withstand being bashed on bricks, concrete ledges, handrails, and skatepark coping. most bmx riders don't care if it stretches but it usually makes a difference on a mtb. it's severely over-built for mtb use and does not serve it's purpose on a bmx bike very well either.


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

aka brad said:


> No, there is no need to buy a pin, the half link comes with a pin and you press out the pin on your chain (not all the way, just enough to remove a link), insert the half link and push the pin back through.


Wait a second. :skep: Can I re-use the pin even on a chain that's technically not supposed to re-use the pins?


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

erik1245 said:


> Wait a second. :skep: Can I re-use the pin even on a chain that's technically not supposed to re-use the pins?


depends on who you listen to. I wouldn't recommend it myself


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

erik1245 said:


> Wait a second. :skep: Can I re-use the pin even on a chain that's technically not supposed to re-use the pins?


 I wouldn't try it on most 9,10,11 speed chains or ones with hollow pins. Back in the days before Shimano came up with chain pins, that was the only way to break and re-connect chains. This included peened chains like the newer Reginas. But as chains got thinner any minor deformity in the pin and side plate would result in chain failure. So yes it can be done, but you have to be careful and know what your doing. It is not uncommon that when re-inserting the pin, if not perfectly aligned you will bend the plate and deform the hole and pin; you also need to turn the chain around in the tool and relieve the pressure on the link. After doing it enough times, you get the hang of it, but I still use the pins and links that come with the chains if they are available. Still it's a good trick to learn if you break a chain and don't have an extra Powerlink or pin.


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## Andy R (Nov 26, 2008)

I don't know how much you guys pay for a Gussett Slink half-link, but I get them for £1.99.
At that price it's just not worth fannying around with anything else, not in my experience anyway.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

erik1245 said:


> Wait a second. :skep: Can I re-use the pin even on a chain that's technically not supposed to re-use the pins?


You can, but shouldn't. I've done it to get my ass home, but once I get home I remove that link and add a master link.


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

erik1245 said:


> That's one grungy chain man.


Okay I cleaned it up a bit..


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## Kaizer (Jul 19, 2010)

aka brad said:


> Okay I cleaned it up a bit..


Hi Brad, thanks for the pix and info. I've just ordered the KMC link with the Z51 for my build.


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

Kaizer said:


> Hi Brad, thanks for the pix and info. I've just ordered the KMC link with the Z51 for my build.


Hey, Brad's the enemy in this thread! I'mma sue him for treason as soon as I get my Gusset half link. 

Thanks for the input about re-using pins. I've heard from REI/Park reps that you shouldn't re-use them, but then I was re-reading these replies and it made me think that that was just a marketing gimmick from them. And now I'mma order that Gusset.


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## Kaizer (Jul 19, 2010)

erik1245 said:


> Hey, Brad's the enemy in this thread! I'mma sue him for treason as soon as I get my Gusset half link.
> 
> Thanks for the input about re-using pins. I've heard from REI/Park reps that you shouldn't re-use them, but then I was re-reading these replies and it made me think that that was just a marketing gimmick from them. And now I'mma order that Gusset.


Hi Erik, IMHO no point to take sides in internet debates. Most important thing is to get the info that is required and filter it ourselves I guess.

I'm building my 1st SS, cracking my head up with what is needed and stuffs. Got stuck on the chain selection. Heck I'm having enough trouble understanding the differences between 1/8" and 3/32"! LOL

Chance upon this thread with a wealth of info in it. I got myself a chain tensioner but I wanna get a 1/2 link to minimize tensioner takeup.

Well, the price is right for both the KMC half link and Z51 afterall.

May peace be among all facets of MTB riders!


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

Kaizer said:


> Hi Erik, IMHO no point to take sides in internet debates. Most important thing is to get the info that is required and filter it ourselves I guess.
> 
> I'm building my 1st SS, cracking my head up with what is needed and stuffs. Got stuck on the chain selection. Heck I'm having enough trouble understanding the differences between 1/8" and 3/32"! LOL
> 
> ...


Not at all taking sides, just making fun. 

I could swear I just saw a thread asking about chain tensioners with vertical dropouts, but now I can't find it. Then again, that's like 3/32 of the posts in this forum.

3/32" chain is multispeed (up to 8 spd), and 1/8" chain is singlespeed only. The singlespeed chain is supposedly stronger, but most people will tell you it doesn't make a difference. Like most things, take what you will from it. In my eyes, there's no real differences in function between 3/32" and 1/8" chains. That measurement is the width of the chain across the outer plates, if I'm not mistaken.

I'm still using my 3/32" chain that I had on the bike before I converted, and it's been working fine for me. Hence, why I was wondering why the SC half link wouldn't work with my chain. They're different sizes, but I didn't know that when I first got the SC.

Man, I needa post photos when I've finally put that bike back together. It's one sexy bike. I expect photos of your bike as well, or else I will be taking sides.


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## Kaizer (Jul 19, 2010)

erik1245 said:


> Not at all taking sides, just making fun.
> 
> I could swear I just saw a thread asking about chain tensioners with vertical dropouts, but now I can't find it. Then again, that's like 3/32 of the posts in this forum.
> 
> ...


Yeah, kinda smell joke in your post, I'm just trying to be safe. LOL

If 3/32" is multispeed and 1/8" is single speed only, then what's the size of the Z51?

I bought a KMC Half Link Chain Links for 1/8" chain with the plan of using it on a KMC Z-51 5-8sp chain brown, so does this means it will be a mismatch and I'm screwed?!

Yeah, will post the final pix up when it's done. My build journey's been one heck of a mess, I tell you.


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

Kaizer said:


> If 3/32" is multispeed and 1/8" is single speed only, then what's the size of the Z51?
> 
> I bought a KMC Half Link Chain Links for 1/8" chain with the plan of using it on a KMC Z-51 5-8sp chain brown, so does this means it will be a mismatch and I'm screwed?!


Well, you just said yourself that the Z51 is 8spd, so it's a 3/32" chain. The half link/chain size mismatch was exactly what this whole thread was originally about. My LBS gave me a 1/8" SS chain, and I tried to use it on my 3/32" chain because I didn't know the 1/8" was an 1/8" chain. So no, the KMC half link will not work with the KMC multispeed chain. That is, unless I've been reading this whole thing wrong. I wouldn't put it past me to do that.


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## Kaizer (Jul 19, 2010)

erik1245 said:


> Well, you just said yourself that the Z51 is 8spd, so it's a 3/32" chain. The half link/chain size mismatch was exactly what this whole thread was originally about. My LBS gave me a 1/8" SS chain, and I tried to use it on my 3/32" chain because I didn't know the 1/8" was an 1/8" chain. So no, the KMC half link will not work with the KMC multispeed chain. That is, unless I've been reading this whole thing wrong. I wouldn't put it past me to do that.


Hah! I must have over filtered the infos in this thread then. Thanks for the headsup on the 1/8 vs 3/32 chain stuffs. I've sent email to the seller and asking for a change to a KMC 3/32" chain links.

Phew! Lucky for me, it would be a definate PITA for me to have it fly across the world to know that I ordered the wrong parts!

Thanks man, appreciated it.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

I'm pretty sure the KMC Z51 runs wider than a SRAM or Shimano 8spd chain. When a KMC half link is joined into a SRAM 8spd chain using the pin method, the ends of the pin are nearly flush with the outer plates, while in Brad's picture there's still pin showing. It doesn't really surprise me that it's wider since it's one of the old school chains without the shaped plates of modern multi-speed chains.


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

Just ordered two Gussets and four KMC master links. (And a new QR for my road bike.)

Now I just gotta get the doctor to clear me for mountain biking. :thumbsup:


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

bad mechanic said:


> I'm pretty sure the KMC Z51 runs wider than a SRAM or Shimano 8spd chain. When a KMC half link is joined into a SRAM 8spd chain using the pin method, the ends of the pin are nearly flush with the outer plates, while in Brad's picture there's still pin showing. It doesn't really surprise me that it's wider since it's one of the old school chains without the shaped plates of modern multi-speed chains.


No, the standard pin length for 8 speed is 7.1mm, that goes for KMC Z-51, SRAM PC-#8 (or PC-8##), and Shimano 8sp IG; Shimano 8sp HG is 7.4. The problem is I used a Z-30 by mistake with a 7.8mm pin. :eekster: I'll be switching that out soon..The half link is made for a Z-51 (I measured the inside roller plates), but the pin for some reason is 7.8 and will have to be ground down.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

That may be the standard pin length, but I've measured several 8spd chains and there is some variance in the inside plate width. For example:
SRAM 8spd - 4.25mm
Shimano 8spd - 4.2mm
KMC half link - 4.4mm
Gusset half link - 4.35mm


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

bad mechanic said:


> That may be the standard pin length, but I've measured several 8spd chains and there is some variance in the inside plate width. For example:
> SRAM 8spd - 4.25mm
> Shimano 8spd - 4.2mm
> KMC half link - 4.4mm
> Gusset half link - 4.35mm


What difference does that make?


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

aka brad said:


> What difference does that make?


I'm just trying to say there's variance in the width of 8spd chains. I've only measured SRAM and Shimano chains, but I could see another manufacturer's offering being wide enough to use a half link natively, especially a KMC chain and a KMC half link.


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

bad mechanic said:


> I'm just trying to say there's variance in the width of 8spd chains. I've only measured SRAM and Shimano chains, but I could see another manufacturer's offering being wide enough to use a half link natively, especially a KMC chain and a KMC half link.


Actually it came to me after I posted. I was just being a grouch anyway.

edit:Turns out I had a KMC Z50 (7.3mm pin), not a Z51(7.1mm pin). The KMC 3/32 half link is made for Z51 chain and is even referred to as a Z51-OL, but there should not be any problem using it with a Z50 as discussed below. I also threw a Shimano 8 speed pin (7.4mm) into the mix (they work great on Z50 chains) and a KMC 7.3mm "Missing Link." The Shimano pin works perfect on a Z50 (but are a tad long for the Z51). Anywho, besides a very small gap on the roller side of the half link where it is attached with the Missing Link, which means nothing, it should be as strong as they come. If one to use a Z51 chain with Z51-OL half link, I would go with the pin that comes with the link and grind it down if necessary; because I'm running a dinglespeed, a protruding pin can cause a problem. The Z51 uses a 7.1mm "Missing Link," which should be the same size as SRAM 8 speed powerlink. But as bad mechanic points out there is no guarantee that Powerlinks/Missing links will work with other 8 speed chains; trail and error is the best course as the tolerances are usually in the .1mms.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

wow


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

alexrex20 said:


> wow


I've begun drinking again.

--sParty


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

nvm.. lets keep drinking..


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## jackspade (Jul 23, 2010)

I'll try to put 1 link of half-link to reduce my stretchy chain and hope it's better than my homemade tensioner.

Although it's magic that my bike is smoother with tensioner but I guess I am expecting miracle with half-link.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

Sparticus said:


> I've begun drinking again.
> 
> --sParty


it's ok Sparty. i can handle it. what good is a troll that can't take the heat?


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## dickeydoo (May 11, 2007)

I just installed a KMC Z610HX Singlespeed specific chain ( KMC claims this is their premium non-stretching chain). I put the KMC half link right next to the masterlink that came with the chain and have ridden around the neighborhood but hav'nt got on the trails yet. So, I'm wondering how the half link next to the masterlink will hold up. Has anyone tried this and had success or am I doomed on the first hill I have to torque my way up?


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

my new KMC 410N-CL master links are supposed to be 1/8 but they're a whole side plate too wide for my SRAM PC7X chain. wtf?!

here it is installed on a section of clean PC1 chain.









but there's so much gap that you can fit an extra side plate in there:









what am i doing wrong?

i think i might just run the 2 side plates. i don't see why it wouldn't work...


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

alexrex20 said:


> my new KMC 410N-CL master links are supposed to be 1/8 but they're a whole side plate too wide for my SRAM PC7X chain. wtf?!
> 
> here it is installed on a section of clean PC1 chain.
> 
> ...


Well, it might be that a KMC 410N-CL has a 9.3mm pin and your SRAM PC7X and PC-1 both have a 7.8mm pin; so you've got 1.5mm of play with the master link; yep that what it looks like; 1/8" is the ID not OD.


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

lol, it's a perfect fit with the extra side plate thrown in. not too loose, not too tight. what do you think about me running it ghetto like that?

and this also begs the question: what the hell is the 410N-CL master link for? is it even for a bicycle?


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## alexrex20 (Dec 20, 2005)

screw it, i'll just get a proper master link from the LBS tomorrow


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

So.... the master links came Wednesday, the skooer and half links today. Ironically enough, I found a nice beater bike (full rigid) on Craigslist yesterday for cheap. So now I'm gonna check that bike out on Sunday to see if it's a suitable SS convert. The photos aren't very good, but it looks like it's old enough to qualify for horizontal or semi-horizontal dropouts.

And the fork on my current mtb is frozen. I'm not entirely willing to put in the money to fix it up good because it's such a shitty fork, but I also don't want to drop the money on a rigid fork. I used to be able to unfreeze it by pumping the fork through its compression a bunch of times, but it's been hanging upside down for the past five months. I'm thinking just let the bike sit on its wheels for a while and then try the old remedy? It's an oil fork. 70 mm. Yea, it's shitty.


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

erik1245 said:


> And the fork on my current mtb is frozen. I'm not entirely willing to put in the money to fix it up good because it's such a shitty fork, but I also don't want to drop the money on a rigid fork. I used to be able to unfreeze it by pumping the fork through its compression a bunch of times, but it's been hanging upside down for the past five months. I'm thinking just let the bike sit on its wheels for a while and then try the old remedy? It's an oil fork. 70 mm. Yea, it's shitty.


It sounds like you already have a rigid fork


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Sparty-

You seem to be the know-it-all on the Gusset Slink halflink's..I just ordered a couple from BikeBling (since universal was sold out) and I read somewhere (I can't remember where) that they are directional..is this true? Which way do they get put on? Anything else to look for? (I'm using a sram pc-850 chain)


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Sparty-
> 
> You seem to be the know-it-all on the Gusset Slink halflink's..I just ordered a couple from BikeBling (since universal was sold out) and I read somewhere (I can't remember where) that they are directional..is this true? Which way do they get put on? Anything else to look for? (I'm using a sram pc-850 chain)


I'm not the expert on these, bad mechanic is. But I did buy a few... and using one on my Vulture as we speak. If they're directional, I don't know about it. Don't see why they wouldn't work forward, backward, upside down.

--sParty


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I shall be giving him a PM then, thanks Sparty


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I shall be giving him a PM then, thanks Sparty


Nah, just post it here please! I was wondering the same thing. Obviously the round edge goes toward the teeth (there's even arrows on the link), but does it really matter if the big or the small end is in front?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

They are not directional..but you need two 3/32" kmc masterlinks for each side since they are fractionally bigger and will not work on the pc-850 without them.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> They are not directional..but you need two 3/32" kmc masterlinks for each side since they are fractionally bigger and will not work on the pc-850 without them.


I hate to nit pick but being the anal retentive butthole that I am, I feel compelled to point out that you only need one KMC masterlink for each side -- two in total.

Don't thank me. 

--sParty


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

*two 3/32" kmc masterlinks, ONE for each side



Better sParty???


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> *two 3/32" kmc masterlinks, ONE for each side
> 
> Better sParty???


LOL... yeah, just had to flak ya bro. 

--sParty


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

*Well I tried to install my Gusset Slink today...*

and it turns out that with my gearing and chainstay length if I run the Gusset it's just a tad too short and if I run what I've been running the chain is just a tad too long. Seems like my luck the last couple days here. I bought 2 of them too, and with the masterlinks and shipping spent about $25 total :madman: I guess this is an excuse to get a single speed specific frame :lol: or to turn more bikes into single speed and use the Gusset's haha


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> and it turns out that with my gearing and chainstay length if I run the Gusset it's just a tad too short and if I run what I've been running the chain is just a tad too long. Seems like my luck the last couple days here. I bought 2 of them too, and with the masterlinks and shipping spent about $25 total :madman: I guess this is an excuse to get a single speed specific frame :lol: or to turn more bikes into single speed and use the Gusset's haha


Half links are still useful even with a singlespeed frame. A proper SS frame has a range of adjustment, but you will inevitably find that certain gear combos end up near the far end of that range. If your SS frame has a tensioning system in the dropouts (track ends, sliders, swingers, etc) then having your wheel at the far end of this range will give your bike longer chainstays and a longer wheelbase, making it slightly less nimble and slightly harder to pop the front end up. Replace some links with a half-link and you can sometimes get that same gear combo to work with a shorter chain that shortens up the effective chainstay length too


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> and it turns out that with my gearing and chainstay length if I run the Gusset it's just a tad too short and if I run what I've been running the chain is just a tad too long. Seems like my luck the last couple days here. I bought 2 of them too, and with the masterlinks and shipping spent about $25 total :madman: I guess this is an excuse to get a single speed specific frame :lol: or to turn more bikes into single speed and use the Gusset's haha


Have you tried changing the cog size by a tooth? I was in the exact same boat as you. I was running 34/18 with a tensioner, and I saw that my chain would've been perfect without the tensioner if I changed my ratio to 34/19. So I popped on a 19t Surly cog in place of the 18t stamped cog I'd cannibalized from the old cassette, and my chain tension came out just right.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> .:. spent about $25 total ...


Do it! Chase that $25 investment with a nice $1,500 custom frame... I guarantee you'll see the logic in this once you're down the trail.

--sParty

P.S. Big + reps if you do.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

erik1245 said:


> Have you tried changing the cog size by a tooth? I was in the exact same boat as you. I was running 34/18 with a tensioner, and I saw that my chain would've been perfect without the tensioner if I changed my ratio to 34/19. So I popped on a 19t Surly cog in place of the 18t stamped cog I'd cannibalized from the old cassette, and my chain tension came out just right.


Sometime in the next week I'm planning on buying a 16t and 17t Surly cog (because I can) and am planning on trying that out..most local trails that are single speed friendly are fit for 32x18, and I've got the legs to push 16 and 17 so I'm gonna try it out :lol:


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Sparticus said:


> Do it! Chase that $25 investment with a nice $1,500 custom frame... I guarantee you'll see the logic in this once you're down the trail.
> 
> --sParty
> 
> P.S. Big + reps if you do.


How about big reps anyways? :thumbsup: I am really wanting a nice 1x1 frameset or something similar..but I'm also saving up for a full suspension rig and a 1x9 rigid 29er..sooo idk :lol:


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> How about big reps anyways? :thumbsup: ...


Already rep'd you excessively but the way I'm spending rep chits I should be able to come around to hit you again soon. Think I only have to rep 100 other peeps before hitting the same person again... you're right up there on the 'good guy' list... several dozen spaces above umarth.

--sParty


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Sparticus said:


> Already rep'd you excessively but the way I'm spending rep chits I should be able to come around to hit you again soon. Think I only have to rep 100 other peeps before hitting the same person again... you're right up there on the 'good guy' list... several dozen spaces above umarth.
> 
> --sParty


List? How many times have you repped me?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> List? ...


The list is a mental thing... and it changes from day to day. 



sasquatch rides a SS said:


> ... How many times have you repped me?


Still tryin' to get to two.  But in your case, 20 rep chits at a time is doubtless excessive... it's bound to go to your head. :devil:

--sParty


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

ahh...a mental thing.. :lol:


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> and it turns out that with my gearing and chainstay length if I run the Gusset it's just a tad too short and if I run what I've been running the chain is just a tad too long. Seems like my luck the last couple days here. I bought 2 of them too, and with the masterlinks and shipping spent about $25 total :madman: I guess this is an excuse to get a single speed specific frame :lol: or to turn more bikes into single speed and use the Gusset's haha


Did you at least try to do this before you spent your money?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

No but I'm gonna find a use for them lol It's not as big of a deal as I apparently made it sound :lol: I've got a couple other bikes that may possibly be SS'd


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## Moe's Tavern (Aug 7, 2010)

I can't find the Slink 1/2 Link, 3/32" anywhere. And I'm not smart enough to understand what's going on above. 

Can someone please tell me the second best way to get a half link in my SRAM 8sp chain?

Much appreciated


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Moe's Tavern said:


> I can't find the Slink 1/2 Link, 3/32" anywhere...


That's why I bought 2 :thumbsup:


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

Stevob said:


> Did you at least try to do this before you spent your money?


Wouldn't that be the same as just removing a link?


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

They appear to be out of stock on the distributor level in the US, so I'm afraid you're unlikely to find any in the US other than bartering with other mtbr members. Unfortunately I don't have any extras right now. Good thing otherwise I'd barter for quite a steep price from you


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## Moe's Tavern (Aug 7, 2010)

aka brad said:


> Wouldn't that be the same as just removing a link?


Looks like that represents a _half _link to me. If not, then I'm even more stupider than I thought.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

Moe's Tavern said:


> Looks like that represents a _half _link to me. If not, then I'm even more stupider than I thought.


you're right, and your less stupider then you thoght


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Moe's Tavern said:


> I can't find the Slink 1/2 Link, 3/32" anywhere. And I'm not smart enough to understand what's going on above.
> 
> Can someone please tell me the second best way to get a half link in my SRAM 8sp chain?
> 
> Much appreciated


I have an extra Slink. Will trade for 18 rep points + $10 in small, unmarked bills. Price includes shipping anywhere in the contiguous USA.

$20 plus the rep points will get you the Slink plus two 8-spd master links... real deal master links (not PowerLinks).

PM me if interested. Tell no one.

--sParty


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

Damn, brotha. You see, that's why I bought two half links (wouldn't that just make a full link?) when I was buying them. And then I just bought a sweet steel Schwinn frameset instead. It has horizontal dropouts.

Moe, it looks like you'll just have to buy a new frame with horizontal drops instead. :thumbsup:

Edit: say this five times fast instead of ordering anything at all: "sweet steel Schwinn frameset."


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

erik1245 said:


> Damn, brotha. You see, that's why I bought two half links (wouldn't that just make a full link?) when I was buying them. And then I just bought a sweet steel Schwinn frameset instead. It has horizontal dropouts.
> 
> Moe, it looks like you'll just have to buy a new frame with horizontal drops instead. :thumbsup:
> 
> Edit: say this five times fast instead of ordering anything at all: "sweet steel Schwinn frameset."


Horizontal drops are actually why I bought those half links in the first place. 31x18 with a normal chain put the wheel at the very back of the dropout and I didn't like the feel with that extra 3/4" or so of chainstay length. Removing a full link made the chain to short to fit at all but a half link made it _just right_ so that I had 32x18 working with the wheel in the front half of the dropout.


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

boomn said:


> Horizontal drops are actually why I bought those half links in the first place. 31x18 with a normal chain put the wheel at the very back of the dropout and I didn't like the feel with that extra 3/4" or so of chainstay length. Removing a full link made the chain to short to fit at all but a half link made it _just right_ so that I had 32x18 working with the wheel in the front half of the dropout.


Well then you shoulda bought a new frame with longer dropouts. Or HTFU and change your gear ratio to fit your current frame. Duh.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

erik1245 said:


> Damn, brotha. ...


I don't care about the money, I'm chasing rep points cuz CHUM's Awesome Supervisor Powers are getting out of control. You see, eMpTy BeeR needs at least one other six-chicklet member to keep the space / time continuum from forming a rift.

18 more points and I'm there...

Trust me on this, I saw a S/T rift happen once on my home world several millennia ago... not something this planet could even withstand.

--sParty


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

Sparticus said:


> Trust me on this, I'm an expert.
> --sParty


You know there's some serious **** going on when a fellow MTBR member says "Trust me."


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

erik1245 said:


> Well then you shoulda bought a new frame with longer dropouts. Or HTFU and change your gear ratio to fit your current frame. Duh.


shorter actually, because if the front of the dropout were an 1/8" further forward I would have been able to run an even better chainstay length and with a normal chain. I seriously considered grinding the front of the dropouts out but then I decided to HTFU about my pickiness

FWIF 32x18 is my HTFU gear. I had been on 32x20 for a couple years before I realized I gearing wasn't holding me back on the climbs just lack of sustained speed and effort


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## goldenaustin (May 30, 2011)

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but figured it was better than creating a new one. Long story short, I managed to break a Gusset slink half link yesterday. I didn't go with my instinct when I tried to install it and was causing a tight link with the master link. I thought it would just loosen as I rode, but I didn't make it up 10 feet on my first climb before I completely lost the chain. Surprisingly (or not?), it broke right at middle of the plates of the half link and not the rivet or pin. During installation, I noticed that on one side of the half link, the master link pin slid through just fine. One the other side, the master link pin was getting stuck in the hole and I forced it through causing a tight link. I'm guessing this caused angled tension at the plates, causing them to shear apart? I'll take a pic of it tonight. I just don't get whey second master link wasn't sliding through to begin with, and the same for the 2nd half link I bought. Bad batch maybe?

Anyone else recently try Gusset half links and noticing this problem causing tight links?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

goldenaustin said:


> Anyone else recently try Gusset half links and noticing this problem causing tight links?


No, but I've still got two brand new setups (Gusset half link with 2 KMC masterlinks x2) sitting in my parts bin that I forgot about  Waste of money :madman: should have bought an HBC cog instead...


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## goldenaustin (May 30, 2011)

After re-reading Bad Mechanic's post, there's a chance I might have had the half link upside down. I remember seeing the arrows on the plates, but might not have paid attention once I got it on the bike. Not sure if that would be a big deal or not. I have a spare half link to try it again, but there's a chance I might make an offer for your spare sets, Sasquatch.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

What masterlink were you using?


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## goldenaustin (May 30, 2011)

bad mechanic said:


> What masterlink were you using?


I updated Sasquatch in a PM but forgot to reply to the thread. I actually broke the master link and not the half link. I was in a haste with swapping out bikes and Super Bowl, etc. I didn't really look at the damage until a couple nights ago. It was a KMC brand master link, and I have a feeling the half link wasn't oriented properly as well. On the Gusset half link, what do the arrows actually indicate relative to the teeth of the rings/cog? Should they be pointing away or towards the teeth?


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Was the other plate and clip still attached when it broke? If they were then I'd say it was simply a bad masterlink. If they weren't, then my guess is the clip came off and the masterlink was simply pried apart. Did you make sure to push the clip on until it clicked into place?


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

goldenaustin said:


> On the Gusset half link, what do the arrows actually indicate relative to the teeth of the rings/cog? Should they be pointing away or towards the teeth?


I'm not sure where the arrows are, my bike's out in the garage and I don't feel like going out there to look, but if you look at the Slink you'll see there is a flat side - that should face away from the teeth.


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## goldenaustin (May 30, 2011)

bad mechanic said:


> Was the other plate and clip still attached when it broke? If they were then I'd say it was simply a bad masterlink. If they weren't, then my guess is the clip came off and the masterlink was simply pried apart. Did you make sure to push the clip on until it clicked into place?


Hmm...I think you got it. I forgot about the possibility of a loose clip that simply fell off because of a bad install. The other side with plate and clip was not attached and I didn't bother to look for it. From the looks of the way the masterlink was ripped apart, it looks like it was "pried" off because there was nothing on the other side helping to hold it together. I'll put it back together with a spare masterlink tonight and post an update after a test spin. Thanks again!


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