# Best Bang for the Buck?



## loc (Sep 24, 2009)

I have pretty much stayed up all night reading MTBR Forums. I know understand the fitting is the bike is the most important, with that said i'm going to LBS(learned that term too) to get measured and sit on some bikes and get recommendations. 

With that said there are many manufactures. 

In your option what is the "best bang for the buck bike" for logging roads and some trail riding. I live in western pa and there are hills and downhills rocks, roots etc while on the trails as well.


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

Generally speaking you will get best bang for your buck purchasing from online companys like Bikesdirect.com, Sette USA on pricepoint.com, and Ibexbikes.com to name a few. You cant obviously get fitting for any of these bikes, closest thing you can do is compare the geometry of the bikes to ones you ride at the store. Most people are going to suggest going to the store and depending on what you are looking for exactly I would suggest that also.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Like Vtolds suggested buying online you get the best bank for your buck, but there is also a lot to lose. You don't get lbs service without paying top dollar for it, you don't have a relationship with your lbs so if you break something and need your bike the next day you're out of luck, you don't get the camaraderie of the lbs, and you don't get their warranty on the bike soif you break your frame you cannot get a loner bike from the lbs. You'll just be sitting without a bike sending e-mails to X company. They're also an excellent source of information. You can ask them questions regarding what trails are in good shape to ride, not covered in briars/thorns, destroyed by horses, and which trails are good to go after rains. They can also help you with future tire purchases. 

As you probably already have figured out by my long rant that I highly suggest you buying your first bike at your LBS. Any big name brand such as Giant, Specialized, Trek, Gary Fisher, etc. makes bikes that can easily do what you want. I have found that Jamis is one brand that is carried at local bike shops that usually specs their bikes better than the competition. I'm sure there's more, but I'm not aware of them.


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## davidbeinct (Dec 6, 2007)

+1 on Jamis, they seem to spec better for the dollar, and they make nice bikes.

David B.


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## DavidNeiles (May 8, 2008)

Diamondback makes great quality bike and is a great "bang 4 ur buck". The Response Sport is a killer value and on clearance for $400~ org $550. All Sram X4 drivetrain; Hayes mech disc, and strong weinmen double wall rims. Good begginer bike for trails.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

try performancebike.com or one of their stores. check their discount offers


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

as stated previously.....online you'll save some cash....at an LBS you'll gain some knowledge, recs, service, etc....you'll also be helping out a local business.....

so...what's it worth to save maybe $100??

for your type of riding i'd proly stick with a trail type bike.....Stumpjumpers come to mind..great all around bikes...


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## JPark (Aug 12, 2009)

*Best Bang for the Buck*

There was this girl back in Jersey who would..................oops, I have to start reading these things more thoroughly before I post


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## pmoravek (Sep 16, 2009)

+2 on the Jamis.
I have a Dakar Sport that I love.

(JPark...which exit was that? LOL)


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## WVPedaler (May 20, 2009)

I can say this loc, I was shopping for a bike and wasn't wanting to dump a lot of money into my first bike so I shopped around. I decided to go with my LBS. I was supporting a small cool little shop but also the customer service was great as well. I had them order a bike they didn't have in, they built it up and let me take it on some test rides before I bought it. I didn't end up getting that particular bike, I ended up buying a touch more expensive Cannondale F5, its a hardtail. They also threw in a couple free tune-ups and discounts on accessories for me. In my eyes the LBS is the place to go. Mine also matches online prices for most stuff. I was able to negotiate on the price as well with the LBS. I got a good deal...Good luck though.


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

CHUM said:


> as stated previously.....online you'll save some cash....at an LBS you'll gain some knowledge, recs, service, etc....you'll also be helping out a local business.....
> 
> so...what's it worth to save maybe $100??
> 
> for your type of riding i'd proly stick with a trail type bike.....Stumpjumpers come to mind..great all around bikes...


All good points, but you will save more like what your bike costs Most online bikes are 50 to 60% less than a LBS bought bike and has the same specs, only difference is the frame. I'm not trying to sway any one either way, but the facts need to be known from both sides.


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## pmoravek (Sep 16, 2009)

I would tell the guys at the local bike shop what you have going.
Tell them the price of the bike you are looking at online.
If they can match it without loosing money on the bike, they will probably do it.

My feeling is that you want to support your LBS at any opportunity.
If those guys go out of business, you don't have a place to run for a tube or gel or what ever. Don't get me wrong. I buy stuff online sometimes too. But I also make sure I spread the wealth a bit.

Just my opinion...let the flames begin. (heh heh)


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

2010 bikes are now out in many shops so look for a 09 or 08 (even 07) leftovers for better deals. You may actually find components on the same model of bike are better on the previous years bikes. Go to lot's of shops, inquire and see what they have, what fits and what they recommend. Lot's of good deals available if you do the legwork

That being said if you are comfortable and reasonbly competent working on bikes you can find smoking good deals on very lightly used bikes people get rid of for one reason or another. I have bought 3 bikes like this for me and my kids in the last year. How about 2 $3000 dollar bikes is pristine condition for $1500 each. If you're uncomfortable with that then your LBS for sure is the way to go.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

Vtolds said:


> Most online bikes are 50 to 60% less than a LBS bought bike and has the same specs, only difference is the frame. I'm not trying to sway any one either way, but the facts need to be known from both sides.


My buying experiences show that your FACTS are not true. All you're going by is full retail which is not always what one has to pay. I didn't pay full retail for any of my bikes. I purchased my Kona and Giant for excellent prices, plus, I got to actually ride them to make sure they actually fit and felt right.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

Vtolds said:


> All good points, but you will save more like what your bike costs Most online bikes are 50 to 60% less than a LBS bought bike and has the same specs, only difference is the frame. I'm not trying to sway any one either way, but the facts need to be known from both sides.


i was referring to purchasing the same bike via online vs. LBS....most LBS' will work with a customer on price....

and different frames really make a pronounced change in how a bike rides....it's like comparing a Titus to an Ibex....even if the ETT and HA are the same.....

bottom line....it's really not too cool to spend time in a shop testing rigs...getting fit....and tapping for info if you're just gonna turn around and buy online.....poor karma choice IMHO


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

I personally think the best bang for your buck is a bike on closeout from an LBS or a used bike. The guys who tout Motobecane and Sette will say "Yea the components are the same, only the frames are different". The frame is a fairly important part of the bike though, and I'd rather buy a bike based on frame material, weight, strength and stiffness, rather than an XT rear derailleur (which is sometimes mated to an Alivio front, which really shows you what they're selling the bike based on) and shifters. That's just me though.

In the end, you have to decide what is important for you. Is it low cost? Is it the components hung on the frame? Is it the frame itself? Do you want to be able to ride the bike before you buy it? The answers to those questions will make your decision for you.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Vtolds said:


> All good points, but you will save more like what your bike costs Most online bikes are 50 to 60% less than a LBS bought bike and has the same specs, only difference is the frame. I'm not trying to sway any one either way, but the facts need to be known from both sides.


There is a little more difference than the frame and if it was only the frame there's a lot of strings attached with the frame. The biggest one is warranty. There's also a huge list of stuff if you refer back to my previous post that comes with the lbs. Supporting your lbs is priceless in my opinion. I have made a lot of friends hanging out at my very small lbs.

Yesterday I decided to go and do some trail work. I saw a trailer at the lbs and asked to borrow it. He said no problem and I explained to him I was going to weed eat the trail he told me I could borrow his weed eater anytime. Get your online dealer to help supply items for maintenance. Good luck with that.


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

Rod said:


> Yesterday I decided to go and do some trail work. I saw a trailer at the lbs and asked to borrow it. He said no problem and I explained to him I was going to weed eat the trail he told me I could borrow his weed eater anytime. Get your online dealer to help supply items for maintenance. Good luck with that.


Its completely awesome that your LBS lends you yard equipment. But it has nothing to do with buying bikes, and should have no bearing on where you buy a bike.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Vtolds said:


> Its completely awesome that your LBS lends you yard equipment. But it has nothing to do with buying bikes, and should have no bearing on where you buy a bike.


That's not the point. My point was the LBS helps regionally. It provides me with lawn equipment, as you pointed out, a pull behind trailer, and access to others who can help me maintain my local trails. An online dealer cannot do that.


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## JPark (Aug 12, 2009)

Vtolds said:


> Its completely awesome that your LBS lends you yard equipment. But it has nothing to do with buying bikes, and should have no bearing on where you buy a bike.


He gave a direct example of the benifits of supporting your LBS. How does this not have anything to do with buying bikes


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Vtolds said:


> Its completely awesome that your LBS lends you yard equipment. But it has nothing to do with buying bikes, and should have no bearing on where you buy a bike.


I want to elaborate one my one example. By loaning me the pull behind trailer I can save 200 dollars. Actually the 200 dollar trailer I found googling is smaller and doesn't look as robust as the loaner trailer. By loaning me the weedeater that has the blade attachment I do not have to spend 300 dollars on a Stihl weedeater plus the cost of attachments. The weed eater I was using belongs to my dad so this saves me from having to drive home 100 miles to borrow it only when it's convenient for him. I'm saving at least 500 dollars worth of cash by supporting my lbs from this one example.


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## loc (Sep 24, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice. I went to the closted LBS and they carry Gary Fisher and Trek. They steared me to GF Pirhana, 29er Mamba, trek 4500. These bikes were in the $800 range and he said they would be the best fit. The guy was great and informative and spent 1 hour with me. 6 months services. They will let me test a bike for $40/day and if I buy within 3 days I get the $40 back on the purchase. I'm very confident in his shop. 
(said I need a 19 inch frame)

I then went to a shop that carried Specialized. They had a P.1 M for $550 out the door and a Hardrock with disc for $550. They said the P.1 M was a 2009 and this was the 20 percent off for yesterday and today. 2 tune ups. I really did not like these guys much. 
(said 17 inch frame all they way..19 too big)

Went to third shop. Told me to stay away from Giant and told me Cannandale F5 is the perfect fit but it was $675 (2009)....or said F7 at $600 ....could not put me into anything $500 for my needs. 2 tune ups and 10% off access. These guys seemed ok as well.
(had me on the F5 Medium, said its very close but said he would like to see me sit on a Large but did not have one together)

I want a disc bike so that is one think that I know for sure and a hardtail with front suspension. Hear the Vivd disc were better than the generic ones. Rock Shoc was better than the Suntour. Sram was better than the Shimano. 

So now it leaves me to online. What do I look for online in these types of models that the local Lbs are recommending? It hard for me to compare geometries with Jamis, etc for a price comparison. 

I really like the F5 Bike that I sat on but dont want to spend the $675 if I dont have to. I asked if he could go any lower and he said the boss was ont in and this is 10% off retail) no sales until Feb. 

I know everyone does not want to commit to a make and model but really need some help here on what you would buy or do. I am very handy with mechanical things, I built a couple of harley engines, do all my own dirt bike engines/maintance, do all my own truck repairs etc. so the online purchase does not scare me if I know that i'm getting quality parts.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

I think you're caught in the middle a bit between what you want and what you want to spend. You're going to have to compromise - either spend more to get what you want, or get a bit less than you want (in something that will still be perfectly competent) and stay within your budget.

Since you liked the first shop ..

The Fisher Tarpon and Advance Disc will be solid bikes in your price range. The Advance Disc is a little higher (using MSRP from the Fisher site). Trek only has one offering with disc brakes in your range, and that's the 3900. You could also look at the Specialized Hardrock Disc (<$500) or the Sport Disc (just a little over $500).

Between those bikes, the components will mostly be the same, or at least at the same level. The frames will be similar in weight and quality. The main difference will be in the fit of the bike. I'd suggest you try the 17" and 19" in each frame before you decide to buy one, and make sure the bike shop will do a basic fit and swap out parts like the stem for a longer or shorter one, free of charge, in order to fit you. For your needs of fire roads and some trails, those bikes will all be solid options, and will be inexpensive to repair if you break something like the derailleur, shifters, etc. And you can always upgrade the brakes to something like the Avid BB5 or BB7 for dirt cheap on eBay, pricepoint, or even at REI when they have a sale . Don't forget you're going to need some other things like a helmet, some decent riding shorts and gloves. I'd talk with the shop about giving a discount on those items (a lot of shops will cut you 10-20% off on those things for buying the bike there).


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## loc (Sep 24, 2009)

nachomc,

Thanks for the detail....that is great info and what i needed....I did like the first shop really well. I actually went back to them this afternoon and said, the bikes that we looked at earlier are exactly what I need, BUT I need to be in a lower price range. Then they showed be in the brochure the 3900 and the 4500 disc with the 4500 out of range again. I will have to look at the details of the tarpon and advance as well as the 3900 and compare. The hardrock would be an option but just did not like that shop as much as the other two.....but really liked that F5 in black......(taking the wife to dinner tonight to maybe get the additional funds..but not looking good with the KTM200 in the garage not riding it for 6 years--LOL) anyone want to buy a ktm200/race ready)


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## trailville (Jul 24, 2006)

As far as 'bang for buck" goes with entry-level bikes, I think the best deals are most likely going to be online. However, once you have your LBS investing the time in sizing bikes for you and helping you to understand the specs, I think it's kind of douchie to then go and buy online. At the point you're at I'd suggest you stick with the LBS that was most helpful. The differences between the bikes there in your price range and other brands at other bike shops in the same price range will be minimal. 
Your comment "Hear the Vivd disc were better than the generic ones. Rock Shoc was better than the Suntour. Sram was better than the Shimano" is simply uninformed. You're not going to get great components in your price range regardless of what brand they are. I've never heard of Vivd discs, so to say they're better than generic is news to me. If you meant Avid discs, yes Avid makes some good brakes but they also have lower level brakes that do not perform as well. It's a little tricky finding info on Suntour forks because they haven't been selling them aftermarket (to my knowledge) and until the last couple of years you just didn't see a lot of them (though the Suntour brand has been around a long time). I've yet to see any real specs on them, but they seem to be gaining ground as oem forks on entry level bikes. While Rock Shox is a great brand and puts out some great forks, the Dart 1 that comes on a lot of entry level bikes is a very basic fork and should in no way be confused with the rest of the Rock Shox lineup. And Sram versus Shimano? Them's fighten words. Sram and Shimano pretty much go head to head at each quality level. In any case, you can't make generic assumptions based on brand. You have to look at the specific model of component you are getting.


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## luckie8 (Aug 14, 2009)

trailville said:


> once you have your LBS investing the time in sizing bikes for you and helping you to understand the specs, I think it's kind of douchie to then go and buy online.


yea.. especially when stop back at your LBS with your newly online bought bike for parts etc. lol:nono:


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## R.Beezy (Sep 19, 2009)

i'm going to be biased and say go w/ a Giant. i researched "Giant Yukon FX" and its a "very good downhill bike at a very reasonable price"


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

I suggest riding all of the bikes that are in your budget and especially focus at the shop you like. Then buy the bike that feels the best. If you can't choose between two bikes get the bike from the shop with the better vibe. I would start at the shop with the great vibe and ride the bikes. If it fits great and within your budget then you're set.


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

I agree that once your LBS has invested more than an hour of time teaching you about bikes, sizing you and letting you test them, it would be in bad form to not buy from them.

I bought my first 2 bikes from an LBS, including a $3200 GT LTS about 11 years ago. I'm now in the market for a 29er and I stopped in at a few LBSs to see what they had. Without wasting a lot of their time (but test riding a few bikes) I got a good idea what my money would buy me.

I then did a bunch of online research and found that I could get an equivalent bike (frame, components, quality) for close to half price. I ended up spending what I had budgeted for, but got a huge bike and component upgrade over what the same money buys at the LBS for an inferior product.

I'm not worried about 2 free tune ups because I've never had the patience to wait for the shop to get them done when I maintain my own bikes. I always support my LBS with tires, tubes, components, clothes, etc. It's all a balance, but $1200 savings put it over the top for me as a no-brainer to buy online in my particular case!

And by the way, I never had a problem establishing a relationship with my LBS even though my bike did not come from their shop. I buy parts there and they've let me demo night riding lights and bikes for no charge. If they are a good shop they will not discriminate when I come in with my online purchased bike to ask for a component or a recommendation.

Bottom line is you will get more for your money online. Much more. 

If you don't work on your own stuff, or cost is less important than service, then go to your LBS.


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## loc (Sep 24, 2009)

I dont have a problem buying online. I will support the local shop. As a matter of fact the parts have more profit margin than a bike by far. I even told the first shop that if I buy one used would he tune it for me the first go around and he had no problem with that at all. I would like to buy from him but during this economy i'm buying what i can for the value. So the 3 sights mentioned above is the best deals?


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

isleblue65 said:


> I then did a bunch of online research and found that I could get an equivalent bike (frame, components, quality) for close to half price. I ended up spending what I had budgeted for, but got a huge bike and component upgrade over what the same money buys at the LBS for an inferior product.


Equivalent? How do you know? Sure, components are components, but frame and quality?

Close to half price? An inflated MSRP doesn't mean anything.

I bought my Kona for close to half price and it was the real deal, not an inferior product. And I got to ride it before I bought it to make sure it fit and felt right.


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## OSOK (Jul 11, 2009)

Loc, with all the sports I'm in (skydiving, scuba, mtb), I've always found that buying the main components from local shops is best... and the "accessories" or other parts online. This gives me the best bang for my buck, because if something breaks or needs repair, it'll most likely be on that main component, and it'll be a much easier time getting fixed than if I had bought it online.

PS: no discussion if skydiving is a sport or not :-D


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Equivalent? How do you know? Sure, components are components, but frame and quality?
> 
> Close to half price? An inflated MSRP doesn't mean anything.
> 
> I bought my Kona for close to half price and it was the real deal, not an inferior product. And I got to ride it before I bought it to make sure it fit and felt right.


Equivalent because I was able to inspect one of the online bikes that was owned by a local rider. Welds looked equivalent or better, same aluminum and reviews on this site were actually higher on the online bike.

The bike I was comparing against was a 2010, but the 2009 model closeouts were still 35% higher at the best shop.

I ended up getting a titanium framed bike with cleaner welds (based on close-up photos), much better components and better reviews here and elsewhere than what I could afford at my LBS.

Great, you got to ride it. I can fit myself. If you understand geometry and have ridden or owned enough bikes to know what feels good and what doesn't, you can go into an LBS knowing which bikes you are going to ride after viewing the manufacturer website geometry charts, or shop online with the same confidence.


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Equivalent? How do you know? Sure, components are components, but frame and quality?
> 
> Close to half price? An inflated MSRP doesn't mean anything.
> 
> I bought my Kona for close to half price and it was the real deal, not an inferior product. And I got to ride it before I bought it to make sure it fit and felt right.


How do you know the frame isn't a equivalent? Tons of people on here use the 3 listed company's, myself including. If the Sette Reken which was 80 dollars when I bought it in a Size Large can handle my 5'11" 240 pounds frame then I would say it is good enough quality to compete with what a main stream bike stores sell. The fact that you got a bike for half the MSRP doesnt mean much, because we dont know how much that particular bike was tested or even if it was a last years or even the year before that model. Significantly reduced to sell, because no one else wants it because they all want the new model, it happens every year.


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## toyman (Aug 18, 2009)

I'm cracking up! Buy from your LBS so you can borrow their trailer and weedwacker???? LBS's are like any other store, there are good ones and bad ones, and they are all out to make a profit. Don't think that their main objective is "trail maintenance", introducing people to biking, ecology, global warming, or loaning tools. They are no different than any other business. That being said, they can be a great place to buy a bike. A good LBS will recognize that if they generate a relationship with a potential customer, they will likely generate sales from a bike, repairs or parts/accessories. They may get one of those pieces or all. A good shop (bike or otherwise) won't alienate a potential customer, a bad shop will. 

One poster suggested that it would be 'douchie' to interact with a LBS and then buy online? Applying that logic, you would be limited to only going or interacting with one bikeshop, because, wouldn't it also be 'douchie' to exercise one LBS only to buy from another LBS???? I bring this up since the OP stated that he has been looking at 3 different bikeshops. 

In today's economy, or any economy really, we all work hard for our money and want to get the most for it. I had an easy decision for my last purchase as the LBS's that I did frequent have since gone out of business. I generated relationships with all 3 of the shops, but only bought bikes from one. It didn't seem to be an issue for any of them that I purchased parts from each of the LBS's as well as the internet. They didn't give me crap that I was riding my C-dale or Scott (bought at Dick's), and the shop owner was riding his Jamis, because that's what he carried. The relationship(s) I generated started out as Customer/Owner but became personal. A newby going into any LBS isn't going to have the same relationship as those that are non-newby's. They also aren't going to get the same discounts or extended service, as it should be. 

Anyway, if you've found a bike you really like (Cannondale - hint hint) from an LBS, then see what you can do about negotiating price. (Check REI's prices - hint hint) If you don't feel you're getting a value for your money look used or internet direct. Just make sure you feel comfortable wrenching on your bike and know that you will spend a few bucks if you need the LBS for something. I bought my C-dale because it had a great frame but low end components. I bought it with the intention of upgrading to get it where I wanted it, which ended up being minimal. I bought by Windsor (bikesdirect) for the exact opposite reason. The components were great and I figure I can upgrade the frame if it ever becomes and issue. I'm not worried about down time because I have 3 bikes, and if the warranty works well or not, I feel confident that I got my money's worth thru the components on the bike. I'm hoping I come across a great deal on a C-dale 29er frame in a few years to switch all the components to.

So, there it is, no single correct decision for everyone, only the right decision for you. As long as you understand the inherent risks of each, you should come out in great shape, regardless of your decision. Definitely frequent the LBS and generate a relationship, regardless of whether you buy there or not. It's a great place to find rides, riders, advice and the commeraderie someone else mentioned. 

Oh, and if I were you, I'd seriously consider finding the extra c-note or so to get the C-dale. I don't know if the '09 C02 frames were still made in USA or not, if that matters to you. Good Luck and post some pics.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

isleblue65 said:


> If you understand geometry and have ridden or owned enough bikes to know what feels good and what doesn't, you can go into an LBS knowing which bikes you are going to ride after viewing the manufacturer website geometry charts, or shop online with the same confidence.


Great, but you're posting advice on the *Beginner's Corner forum*. I doubt most beginners have the understanding of geometry or the "Seat Time" that would allow them to purchase with total success from a geometry chart or from a fitting chart.


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## cth978 (Feb 9, 2009)

Vtolds said:


> How do you know the frame isn't a equivalent? Tons of people on here use the 3 listed company's, myself including. If the Sette Reken which was 80 dollars when I bought it in a Size Large can handle my 5'11" 240 pounds frame then I would say it is good enough quality to compete with what a main stream bike stores sell. The fact that you got a bike for half the MSRP doesnt mean much, because we dont know how much that particular bike was tested or even if it was a last years or even the year before that model. Significantly reduced to sell, because no one else wants it because they all want the new model, it happens every year.


Next thing he is going to say is "Tell price point I sent you so I can get my comission..."


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

Vtolds said:


> How do you know the frame isn't a equivalent? Tons of people on here use the 3 listed company's, myself including. If the Sette Reken which was 80 dollars when I bought it in a Size Large can handle my 5'11" 240 pounds frame then I would say it is good enough quality to compete with what a main stream bike stores sell.


It's funny you mention that - in reading reviews of frames, the most common test I see is the "can a 240lb dude sit on the bike without it blowing up?" test. The overall review rarely goes past this step because it has been determined to be the single most important factor in quality of a frame.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

Vtolds said:


> How do you know the frame isn't a equivalent? Tons of people on here use the 3 listed company's, myself including. If the Sette Reken which was 80 dollars when I bought it in a Size Large can handle my 5'11" 240 pounds frame then I would say it is good enough quality to compete with what a main stream bike stores sell. The fact that you got a bike for half the MSRP doesnt mean much, because we dont know how much that particular bike was tested or even if it was a last years or even the year before that model. Significantly reduced to sell, because no one else wants it because they all want the new model, it happens every year.


How do you know the frame is equivalent?

Tons of people?

How long has your Sette Reken "handled" your 240 pound frame? Long enough to state that it is good enough quality to compete with what main stream bike stores sell? Or, does the fact that you are sponsored by Sette and Pricepoint have anything to do with you pushing their products on MTBR?

No, the bike was of the current year, it fit and felt right, and it was exactly what *I* wanted. I am a patient and frugal shopper. Anyone can do it.


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## loc (Sep 24, 2009)

You guys are killing me on the LBR stuff. Really makes no sense. I'm buying ONE bike, not ONE LBR carries all the brands. Without going to all of them and seeing what they have, their prices, and giving them a chance to sale their product would give them more of a disadvantage. I'm giving all of them a chance, and will only buy from one that has the bike i want or fits me best at the best price, with sevice and discounts taken into consideration.

This thread is getting way off base. 

The purpose is to give me a few good bike names and models that would fit my needs for me to look at locally or online instead of searching thru 1000's of bikes that are way over my ability or way under my requirements. 

I do appreciate all the info here, thanks and my search continues.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

toyman said:


> I'm cracking up! Buy from your LBS so you can borrow their trailer and weedwacker???? LBS's are like any other store, there are good ones and bad ones, and they are all out to make a profit. Don't think that their main objective is "trail maintenance", introducing people to biking, ecology, global warming, or loaning tools. They are no different than any other business.


That only one example and I stated I saved serious money from borrowing their equipment. I agree that most local bike shops goal is trail maintenance, but this shop isn't going to gain anything from loaning me the equipment. I live in the middle of no where and the work I did is only going to benefit me and a few others during the winter months. As someone else pointed out it is a direct benefit of having a relationship with your lbs. If you don't have a good relationship with your lbs I doubt they're going to loan you tools. I have no problem with buying online, but my example of trail work from yesterday isn't outrageous.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

loc said:


> You guys are killing me on the LBR stuff. Really makes no sense. I'm buying ONE bike, not ONE LBR carries all the brands. Without going to all of them and seeing what they have, their prices, and giving them a chance to sale their product would give them more of a disadvantage. I'm giving all of them a chance, and will only buy from one that has the bike i want or fits me best at the best price, with sevice and discounts taken into consideration.
> 
> This thread is getting way off base.
> 
> ...


I do agree this thread is getting way off base, but I'll simplify matters.

You can do one or two things.

1. Go to the local bike shops you like, ride their bikes, and buy one that fits good that's within your budget. It really is as simple as that.

2. Go online and purchase a bike. You can compare top tube lengths, most important with fit, head angles, how fast the bike will steer to get your fit. You can reap significant savings when buying online if you know how to fix the bike yourself. There's many books that can help you with this aspect. If something does happen your lbs won't be able to help you. You'll have to deal with the dealer yourself. If you're comfortable with that then buying online is a good option.

As with all things in life there are advantages and disadvantages of each. You've pretty much heard most of the major discussion points already.


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## m0ngy (Dec 22, 2005)

hands-down, the best bang for your buck bike of all time is the Santa Cruz Heckler with X.9 drivetrain and some 6" travel forks with 20mm thru-axle. forget Rock Shox, get some Marzocchi 55's or Fox 36 Vanilla's. check out the Santa Cruz website and buy online. 'nuff said, case closed. end communication.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

loc said:


> ...
> This thread is getting way off base.
> 
> The purpose is to give me a few good bike names and models that would fit my needs for me to look at locally or online instead of searching thru 1000's of bikes that are way over my ability or way under my requirements.
> ...


fair enough  .....what's your budget?...that will dictate the level of bike you can get.


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

loc said:


> You guys are killing me on the LBR stuff. Really makes no sense. I'm buying ONE bike, not ONE LBR carries all the brands. Without going to all of them and seeing what they have, their prices, and giving them a chance to sale their product would give them more of a disadvantage. I'm giving all of them a chance, and will only buy from one that has the bike i want or fits me best at the best price, with sevice and discounts taken into consideration.
> 
> This thread is getting way off base.
> 
> ...


Your welcome, just want you to know all your options. Some of us dont require are Bike shops nearly as much as others so I understand that the majority defend bike shops like there lives depend on it because without there bike shops they wouldn't be able to ride because a lot of bike riders dont know the first thing about fixing there own bike.

I suggest learning about bikes in general and knowing how to fix them. Read reviews and ride bikes and figure out which direction is best for you. Good luck and have fun, dont worry about the bickering some people like to feel like big men online and forget that when they type it is a actual person on the other end reading. Instead of just sticking to the facts, they would rather try to force there point of view on others rather than giving them options or what I call the "whole picture".

I agree LBS are great and convenient. I too have used my LBS for last minute items I have to have. Many might remember that I broke and X-9 Trigger and I went to my LBS and they sold me some X-7 Triggers. Not only did they give me a discount but the tech explained to me how to change the cables in them also because I asked if they were different than the X-9 Cable setup. I had never bought from them before, just gone in and looked around. You DO NOT have to buy a bike from a LBS to get good service or have a connection with them. They will simply be nice because they are a business and the more you like them the more you will come back. I still will continue to use my LBS in the future for emergency orders, but for my normal needs I dont need to but others are not at my level of mechanical aptitude.

Letting the quoting and potential bashing about me being sponsored by Sette and Pricepoint begin. Because some guys got nothing better to do, but me I am going to go riding and have a blast. I will check in later to see all the fun and informative replys.


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## JPark (Aug 12, 2009)

Vtolds said:


> Your welcome, just want you to know all your options. *Some of us dont require are Bike shops nearly as much as others so I understand that the majority defend bike shops like there lives depend on it because without there bike shops they wouldn't be able to ride because a lot of bike riders dont know the first thing about fixing there own bike.*
> 
> I suggest learning about bikes in general and knowing how to fix them. Read reviews and ride bikes and figure out which direction is best for you. Good luck and have fun, dont worry about the bickering some people like to feel like big men online and forget that when they type it is a actual person on the other end reading. Instead of just sticking to the facts, they would rather try to force there point of view on others rather than giving them options or what I call the "whole picture".
> 
> ...


Wow, you really don't get it, do you 
If this was a troll post, then congrats:thumbsup: It's a good one.
But if this is really what you believe, then......just wow:madman:


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

Vtolds said:


> Your welcome, just want you to know all your options. Some of us dont require are Bike shops nearly as much as others so I understand that the majority defend bike shops like there lives depend on it because without there bike shops they wouldn't be able to ride because a lot of bike riders dont know the first thing about fixing there own bike.


Dude our yew drunk?


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## OSOK (Jul 11, 2009)

Vtolds said:


> Your welcome, just want you to know all your options. Some of us dont require are Bike shops nearly as much as others so I understand that the majority defend bike shops like there lives depend on it because without there bike shops they wouldn't be able to ride because a lot of bike riders dont know the first thing about fixing there own bike.


Ok... I kinda disagree with that. For me, it's not the fact that I can go to the bike shop and get the problem fixed without getting my hands dirty. Everyone can learn how to work on their bike... ITS NOT THAT HARD, just some people prefer not to. Anyways, the reason why *I* prefer a local bike shop over the internet when it comes to big purchases is simply the relationship you establish. First and foremost, your money is going somewhere where you can see it. Second, you get to meet people (granted, you meet people here, but real life isnt the same as forums) and simply get a feel of how the community is. And last, well, you don't gotta pay shipping and handling and wait for your item to arrive.

There. Again, it has NOTHING to do with bike maintenance; yes, it's a convenience of a LBS, but not the main reason some ppl prefer them over websites.

So, your understanding is wrong.


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

m0ngy said:


> hands-down, the best bang for your buck bike of all time is the Santa Cruz Heckler with X.9 drivetrain and some 6" travel forks with 20mm thru-axle. forget Rock Shox, get some Marzocchi 55's or Fox 36 Vanilla's. check out the Santa Cruz website and buy online. 'nuff said, case closed. end communication.


and did you not see what his price range is?


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## JPark (Aug 12, 2009)

Now back to the OP's origanal question. I prefer Trek, and would recomend them to anyone:thumbsup: The 4500 would be a good choice in my opinion.
But, in reality, all the major manufacturers make fine entry level bikes and it really comes down to which bike gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside(I stole that last part from someone)
This also goes for online retailers, but you've already experienced some of the benifits of a good LBS and many others have already been stated in this thread, so I will leave it at that.


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

loc said:


> I have pretty much stayed up all night reading MTBR Forums. I know understand the fitting is the bike is the most important, with that said i'm going to LBS(learned that term too) to get measured and sit on some bikes and get recommendations.
> 
> With that said there are many manufactures.
> 
> In your option what is the "best bang for the buck bike" for logging roads and some trail riding. I live in western pa and there are hills and downhills rocks, roots etc while on the trails as well.


from what you've stated so far would stick to the lbs that you liked the best
in the $800 range you're not going to get any signifigant price difference when you compare apples to apples.
a good lbs and decent brand will be a much better experience in the long run. Here in NH Specialized has a big following, GF ,Trek, Giant etc. all good names.
In your price range you wont be getting high end (strong & light) components but you'll get a decent everyday starter bike that will last you long enough to save up for something better if you decide you want to. 
Nothing wrong with strong & light components but a good rider ids a good rider no matter what hes riding. I've seen lots of crappy riders on real expensive bikes, its easy to get sucked into buying too much bike


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

Vtolds said:


> some people like to feel like big men online and forget that when they type it is a actual person on the other end reading. Instead of just sticking to the facts, they would rather try to force there point of view on others rather than giving them options or what I call the "whole picture".


You're the one that's playing the role of the self appointed MTB Guru (Know It All). Almost all of your posts are giving out advice that you can't back up with facts or personal experience. Someone called you on one of your bad advice posts and your answer was that you were just repeating what you had read elsewhere. That's just not great advice.

You need to forget about the Guru Glory and read your own words. (Insert Pricepoint link for reading glasses here)


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> You need to forget about the Guru Glory and read your own words. (Insert Pricepoint link for reading glasses here)


Why do you gotta hate on PricePoint glasses? The lenses are the same or better than you can get for the price from the LOS (Local Optometrist Shop), it's just the frames that are different


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

nachomc said:


> Why do you gotta hate on PricePoint glasses? The lenses are the same or better than you can get for the price from the LOS (Local Optometrist Shop), it's just the frames that are different


LOL. Good point, my bad.


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## OMNICELLL (Jan 31, 2009)

Best bang for the buck.. Sette.., im looking at right now... Although, after reading some comments about the Monarch shox.. IT may be reasonable to have to add in the cost of a more reliable shox to go with it.. When that happens.. .The price of that 450 dollar frame just shot up to 850..$ So its not that reasonable... doesn't do any good if the shox keeps blowing out.. and I have to keep sending it in.. I will go crazy after a while.... 

Make sure the Frame and fork size match.... 

However.. ITs important if one is going to keep a frame, to get bushing replacements and other stuff.. Therefore, before buying a frame... I need to make sure all the small stuff can be replaced when or if it wares out.. and it does.. 

That is why a more expensive company can be good for some people , with the interests that I have mentioned above.. NOT EVERYONE.. ........SOME , THO.....!!

LBS.... IF THIEIR COOL... IM COOL..... , SO fare I have not had that kind of luck... I stay out of their... 

Im more interested in building the stuff myself... 

IF you are going to work with LBS... SMILE........., Just understand... that the extra money you will pay is to KEEP THAT BIKE IN GOOD SHAPE.... Maintenance is not a choice... IT is part of the experience... Without it.. IT WILL ALL FALL APART... I KNOW... 

KEEP ASKING SEEKING KNOCKING..

As for fit size.. Keep looking at different avenues , online and off.. Soon a picture will emerge.. I take a 17 inch.. ITs that simple... That is the round about number that finally surfaced.. and its true to its calling... 

Hang in their. Keep going.. Good luck.., You can do it....


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## loc (Sep 24, 2009)

Well. Got it narrowed down I believe some atleast some choices all from LBR's. (even thought someone is getting "douched" since I'm not buying from all fo them. I'm hoping to get all these down a bit when I say i'm ready to "buy". I'm hoping to hit the $500 mark on one of these but I will go to $600 kinda thing. If there are other choices I should be looking at then chime in. 


Cannandale F5-$675 (rockshoc dart 3)/avid bb5)
Cannondale F7 $600 (RTS shock/avid bb5)
Trek 4500 $700 (Rock Shoc Dart 3/avidbb5)
Specialized Hardrock $450(Suntour shock/tektro Novelo)

As for the Online stuff....the names of Sette,Monocane,Windsor, etc are all foreign to me but i'm sure someone makes the frames for these and are very similar if not the same.


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

I would do the Cannondale F5 , or the Trek, The Dart 3 isnt a fantastic fork, but it is better than the RST, and the Suntour. As far as names go, dont get stuck on name brands. A good bike is a good bike, no matter who makes it. Good luck, hope you like your new ride.


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## JPark (Aug 12, 2009)

loc said:


> Well. Got it narrowed down I believe some atleast some choices all from LBR's. (even thought someone is getting "douched" since I'm not buying from all fo them. I'm hoping to get all these down a bit when I say i'm ready to "buy". I'm hoping to hit the $500 mark on one of these but I will go to $600 kinda thing. If there are other choices I should be looking at then chime in.
> 
> Cannandale F5-$675 (rockshoc dart 3)/avid bb5)
> Cannondale F7 $600 (RTS shock/avid bb5)
> ...


All solid choices:thumbsup: 
Between the Cannodales, I would go with the F5(9spd will be easier to upgrade if you decide to)
The 4500 is also a great bike, but the price seems a little high.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

The avid bb5s are good brakes as well on the F5. I cannot comment on the frame or fork since I have not ridden them.


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## trailville (Jul 24, 2006)

Just to clarify the "douchie" comment. I'm not saying that you can go to one and only one place and that once you do, you are committed to buying from them. What I am saying is that if you are using your local bike shop to provide their expertise and allow you the ability to touch, feel, and ride, various types and sizes of bikes, and then use this information to go online and buy from someone that can sell cheaper because he doesn't offer these services, it is a douchie thing to do. 

Personally, I buy almost all my bikes and related stuff online. Partially because of cost, but also because my LBSs don't stock any of the stuff I'm interested in and I do all my own wrenching anyway. But I wouldn't think of going into my LBS and waste their time having them talk me through a purchase of something that I'm unfamiliar with, only to then go online to see if I can get a better price. Your LBS has to charge more to account for the time they are spending with you, so if you use their time, buy their products.


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## toyman (Aug 18, 2009)

I'll put another vote for the F5.


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

loc said:


> This thread is getting way off base.
> 
> The purpose is to give me a few good bike names and models that would fit my needs for me to look at locally or online instead of searching thru 1000's of bikes that are way over my ability or way under my requirements.
> 
> I do appreciate all the info here, thanks and my search continues.


Again, without knowing your budget, it's hard to know what to recommend.

The bike I just bought is from Bikes Direct. It's the 2010 Motobecane Fly Team Titanium 29er. The company answered all of my e-mails promptly and were very helpful. They get great reveiws here on MTBR and other forums and have a perfect Better Business Bureau rating. Those are all things I took into consideration.

My last bike was a Specialized FSR Comp purchased from Cambria Bicycle Outfitters at one of their retail stores. They also have a great online store and were very helpful in person and via e-mail.

Prior to that my GT came from a LBS in Montana and I got a KHS from an LBS in California.

Everyone has good points about both online and LBS. I say support your LBS regardless of where you buy your bike. I plan on it.

The biggest chunk of change you can save is on a complete bike, and no LBS I went to could show me an equivalent bike that was within $1200 - $1500 of what I spent. However, in the future I'll buy my tires, tubes, grips, shorts, brake pads and other stuff from my LBS. I don't expect to be treated poorly if I bring my Moto in for a component, and if I do I'll find another shop to deal with.


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## dazada (Sep 17, 2009)

I got my '09 Cannondale F9 for $360 out the door. There ya go.

No discs though... my LBS said they would install Avid BB7's for $130.


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## loc (Sep 24, 2009)

Starting to look online a bit now. 

Windsor Cliff 29er Comp is $500
Metobecane Fantom 29er is $600

Windsor Cliff 4900 is $500
Metobecane 700HT is $500

any thoughts on these bikes? Who Makes these frames?
Thinking now that I can get a 29er with good componets for less than a name brand?

sorry guys be need some more opinions on the above....I have no info on these "non brand names"


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

Go into the Motobecane forum and ask. I dont think any one really knows who or where any frames are made specifically. The components are fantastic for the price, I think they are worth any risk there may be.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

loc said:


> Starting to look online a bit now.
> 
> Windsor Cliff 29er Comp is $500
> Metobecane Fantom 29er is $600
> ...


Yeah, after your last post, I kinda thought this was where you were going.

I can't help you with these bikes. Never even seen one.

You might also check out the Forge bikes that are sold through Target.com. (Very inexpensive.) Also, the Marin Alpine Trail 29ers that are sold through ING Direct for around $400. (Very good deal for a name brand.) Also, Diamondbacks, sold by Dicks Sporting Goods. And I'm sure there are others.

Bottom line---It's your money, buy what you want.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Noobi-Wan Kenobi said:


> Yeah, after your last post, I kinda thought this was where you were going.
> 
> I can't help you with these bikes. Never even seen one.
> 
> ...


Like Noobi I also know nothing about these frames. I've heard rumors, but I do not know specific facts. If you're really that worried contact every specific manufacturer and make sure to read the warranty policy.

I also echo his bottom line statement.


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## OSOK (Jul 11, 2009)

Get yourself a 2010 Trek 4300, in green, and call it a day. 

Trust me.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Forgot to mention something. Double check the facts that you learn on this site. Some mtbr users to have agendas or spread uninformed rumors. A few are sponsored by specific bike manufacturers and companies.


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## pmoravek (Sep 16, 2009)

How many of the rest of you are really anxious to see which bike this guy gets?
Dude you better post some pics when you pull the trigger.
Some of us are emotionally invested in this now.
LOL


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

pmoravek said:


> How many of the rest of you are really anxious to see which bike this guy gets?
> Dude you better post some pics when you pull the trigger.
> Some of us are emotionally invested in this now.
> LOL


We want a ride report as well as pics. I didn't keep up with this thread for nothing.


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## loc (Sep 24, 2009)

patients guys...i will post what I get.....i one of those guys that likes to do research a bit, and also have a ktm 200 to sale in the garage....but MT Bike will most likely come before the sale of the dirt bike...LOL


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## pmoravek (Sep 16, 2009)

Selling a motorcycle?....now, now, let's not get hasty!
I have six of 'em in the garage at the moment.
I'd have more but the wife seems to think silly crap like clothing for the kids is more important. Hhumpf!
(rolls his eyes)


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## m0ngy (Dec 22, 2005)

dan0 said:


> and did you not see what his price range is?


yeah, ok... see what ya mean. :skep:

spending 800 on a pushbike may sound like a lot of money to the uninitiated, but the components will be very clunky and will need to be replaced regularly. to be honest, i haven't sourced anything less than XT, XTR or X.0 for a lot of years, but i remember replacing a lot of STX, STX-RC, and LX components back in the day. basically, you get what you pay for man, and if you are new to mtb you should have a good helmet, gloves, decent suspension forks and working disc brakes. you need to spend the money, it's a safety issue.


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## Remy Darke (Mar 18, 2008)

loc said:


> Starting to look online a bit now.
> 
> Windsor Cliff 29er Comp is $500
> Metobecane Fantom 29er is $600
> ...


The higher end bikes from bikesdirect are made by Kinesis so it's likely all are since sourcing from multiple companies would cost too much. I've tried the 700ht and all I can say is it's a bike. The frame is decent but except for the XT derailleur it not any better equiped than any other entry level bike. It was about the same ride quality as a buddies 2001 GT Avalanche. I also tried one of the Fantom DS's. It was very well constructed but pales in comparison to the bikes they're comparing it to. Fantom DS equal to an Ells Truth or a Special ed Stumpjumper? Not even close. Never tried any type of 29er, so no clue there.


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## OSOK (Jul 11, 2009)

m0ngy said:


> yeah, ok... see what ya mean. :skep:
> 
> spending 800 on a pushbike may sound like a lot of money to the uninitiated, but the components will be very clunky and will need to be replaced regularly. to be honest, i haven't sourced anything less than XT, XTR or X.0 for a lot of years, but i remember replacing a lot of STX, STX-RC, and LX components back in the day. basically, you get what you pay for man, and if you are new to mtb you should have a good helmet, gloves, decent suspension forks and working disc brakes. you need to spend the money, it's a safety issue.


Um... new mtbers should get disc brakes, because it's a safety issue? Mind explaining that? If you meant the helmet, then ignore.


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## OMNICELLL (Jan 31, 2009)

"....Just to clarify the "douchie" comment...."

IT IS NOT DOUCHIE-ING... !! You owe them nothing... That is their problem.. Not yours.. Your problem is to get the Bike God intended... IT is their choice to let you in the front door.. They know all of this.. and hope that guilt will keep you coming back... 
Everytime you're looking at their bikes.. You're creating interest by being part of the traffic.. The more people in the building.. THe greater chance people will think its a popular place.. and stop in... 

Spontaneity and choice is what to look for.. Not saluting to the Third Reich hitler bike path at the LBS office... 

My point is.. IT needs to be your choice.. Not approval by anyone else... No one is going to care more about the Bike you end up with then you..

Good Luck obi 1 canobie



NEW ENTRY: 

The above is an abstract of what can happen... I feel it is a truth at times.. But not always....

However.. My recent experience with my LBS has been fantastic... They have gone way out of their way for service.. Their for .... Take all of this with an opinion and a grain of salt... 

Learn what you can.. .Take what you like.. and leave the rest....

Thanks

OMNICELL


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

You're deep, man.


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

trailville said:


> Just to clarify the "douchie" comment. I'm not saying that you can go to one and only one place and that once you do, you are committed to buying from them. What I am saying is that if you are using your local bike shop to provide their expertise and allow you the ability to touch, feel, and ride, various types and sizes of bikes, and then use this information to go online and buy from someone that can sell cheaper because he doesn't offer these services, it is a douchie thing to do.
> 
> Personally, I buy almost all my bikes and related stuff online. Partially because of cost, but also because my LBSs don't stock any of the stuff I'm interested in and I do all my own wrenching anyway. But I wouldn't think of going into my LBS and waste their time having them talk me through a purchase of something that I'm unfamiliar with, only to then go online to see if I can get a better price. Your LBS has to charge more to account for the time they are spending with you, so if you use their time, buy their products.


excactly right:thumbsup:


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

nachomc said:


> You're deep, man.


so is bullsh*t


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

Personally I wouldn't waste my time on a bike without disk brakes. That rules out the Trek and their entry level disk bikes are to expensive. I had more than one Trek dealer say that to me. The Avid BB5's are excellent brakes and easy to maintain and adjust. I firmly believe your best bang will be a slightly used bike with better components (forks, shifting parts, crank, etc) but I'm comfortable going that route and having the bike shipped to me. Maybe you are not???

If you really like the Cannondale have a look at this Jaxed.com web site which searches the entire country Craigs List and e-bay adds for what ever bike you want. Here I've entered the Cannondale F5 and it pulled up a bunch of them. Some almost brand new. Put in any brand and model and search away. Tons of great buys out there.

http://www.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/mash.cgi?cat=cpbike&itm=cannondale&loc=&fil=f5&ys=2006&ye=2010&ps=&pe=&pgs=50&submit=++++go++++

Also check out the bikes online from REI. I see some pretty good deals and they will ship for free to a local REI for you to pickup. Certain brands can only go to certain REI dealers though so be aware of that. It will tell you somewhere on the web page.
http://www.rei.com/search?cat=4500127&hist=cat%2C4500127%3AMountain+Bikes

Obviously you are comfortable working on things of mechanical nature so a bike is pretty simple compared to a KTM or Harley, just another learning curve and that's what I'm also doing now coming over from the dirt bike world. I also own KTM and Gas Gas dirt bikes and I'm loving all the bike bling hardware. Like I said in a previous post I have bought 3 very lightly used bikes at substantial savings in the last year and have been totally happy.

Now that KTM....not ridden in 6 years really? If it's in good shape that thing should sell in a heartbeat. Post it up on http://www.ktmtalk.com/ or a local dirt bike forum (not sure where you live). The 200's are really popular little bikes and should sell easily.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

I don't see where this unconditional loyalty towards lbs' is coming from...if only people were as faithful to their spouses as they are to their lbs'.

People window shop and go try out items in all sorts of shops in different catagories. All of sudden you do that while looking for a bicycle and you get labeled as a 'douche' if you end up buying somewhere else.

You have zero obligation to buy from a shop simply because they showed you a few bikes or simply out of pitty. Just like they are out to make a living (profit), you are looking out for your own best interest and saving as much $$ as you can...it's your right afterall.

I am not anti lbs by any means, it's just that shops in my area have an extremely limited selection and their prices on the accesories are very high. Instead of walking in and trying to haggle with the fella, I just go online and get the item I want for much less. And if something breaks and I cant fix it, I'll take it to my lbs and they'll gladly fix it because they are getting paid to do so.

Anyways, I myself ride a 2001 Trek 4500. I bought new in 2001 and the bike has seen countless miles. VERY solid bike and has served me very well. I only upgraded the fork recently to the Tora 318 and cant wait to try it out.

I am sure they have made upgrades through the years and it seems like a good bike for getting into mtb'ing.


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## m0ngy (Dec 22, 2005)

OSOK said:


> Um... new mtbers should get disc brakes, because it's a safety issue? Mind explaining that? If you meant the helmet, then ignore.


i gotta explain sh!t to a f&%ken noob now? ok, how many times you been hospitalised for the sake of mtb? how many bones you broken, wrists shattered, palms shredded, shins gouged, shoulders dislocated, knees bloodied... huh? the technology employed on todays $800 bike cost 3 or 4 grand circa '96, and i can tell you it was a knarly f&%ken riding experience, 'specially in the wet.

f&*k yeah having disc brakes is a safety issue. v-brakes run out after any given period, even the expensive systems employing parallelogram pad engagement (XTR). even avid bb7 discs kick ass over v-brakes, period. you people take the last 20 years of mtb evolution for granted, cause it was dudes like me crash testing the equipment for ya.


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## OSOK (Jul 11, 2009)

I think I've been around long enough, mountain biking or not, to know that disc brakes' main selling point is NOT safety. Spend your money as your please, just don't use safety to justify prices of things. Just like helmets... they all have to pass the same effing test... just ones are prettier than others. 

If disc brakes really had a huge improvement on safety over v-brakes, I'm sure they'd be much more mainstream than they are now. In fact, it'd probably be the standard and we would all have to use them.


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## m0ngy (Dec 22, 2005)

OSOK said:


> I think I've been around long enough, mountain biking or not, to know that disc brakes' main selling point is NOT safety. Spend your money as your please, just don't use safety to justify prices of things. Just like helmets... they all have to pass the same effing test... just ones are prettier than others.
> 
> If disc brakes really had a huge improvement on safety over v-brakes, I'm sure they'd be much more mainstream than they are now. In fact, it'd probably be the standard and we would all have to use them.


man... wtf? you know next to nothing about this subject so please stop embarressing yourself. this is a mountain bike forum, and mtb is a BIG sport. in fact, it's HUGE, and exceedingly complicated. yet, i cannot resist from commenting on your clueless 'argument', perhaps in hope you'll keep your mouth shut next time.

ok, let us take helmets first; good (usually pricier) helmets are much more comfortable and offer improved, all-round head protection. sure, all helmets must pass some minimum safety standard, but let me assure you a good helmet, which no doubt costs money, will offer vastly improved head protection over a cheapy. plus, it'll probably look and feel good and you'll actually want to wear it. do you honestly think some helmets cost twice that of others simply because they look "pretty"?

disc brakes _are _the mainstream you idiot. virtually all new bikes do have disc brakes, precisely because they are such a vast improvement over v-brakes. i don't understand why you presume to have an opinion regarding a topic of which you know very little (or nothing at all) and have absolutely no real world experience.


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## toyman (Aug 18, 2009)

loc said:


> Starting to look online a bit now.
> 
> Windsor Cliff 29er Comp is $500
> Metobecane Fantom 29er is $600
> ...


loc - I recently got a Windsor Cliff 29er Pro from Bikes Direct. If you do any research on the Windsor Cliff, it is the same bike as the Fuji Tahoe line (also name them the Comp, Pro & SL). The main difference is the down tube is oval (Windsor) instead of diamond shaped (Fuji). Some have commented that they have recieved Fuji packaging for some of the parts. I went with the Pro because I felt it was the best bang for my buck @ $699. If I had a LBS that carried Fuji, I would have been down there sizing myself to the bike (and giving them the chance to match the price) instead of ordering the size (17") that most closely matched my other 2 bikes setup. I haven't put a ton of miles on the bike yet, but I will say that it rides much lighter than it's 29# makeup. That's probably more due to the whole 29er thing than the manufacturer. The Sram components (X7 front & rear plus shifters) work seemlessly and confidently. I'm still tweaking the Tora Race, and the normal stem, seatpost, & bars could be changed out to save a little weight. The only info I can provide on the Moto's are that they get spec'd with Shimano components. I don't know the deal with those frames. Good luck, again!


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## OSOK (Jul 11, 2009)

m0ngy said:


> disc brakes _are _the mainstream you idiot. virtually all new bikes do have disc brakes, precisely because they are such a vast improvement over v-brakes. i don't understand why you presume to have an opinion regarding a topic of which you know very little (or nothing at all) and have absolutely no real world experience.


I'm gonna skip on commenting how insulting someone on a forum makes you look REALLY manly, and because of that, this is my last reply to you.

Maintstream would be if the majority of bikes were using the disc brakes. This is neither the case at a park (people haven't converted) or at a shop.

Done hijacking.


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## loc (Sep 24, 2009)

Skidad,

Thanks for the info. 

Live in Pittsburgh, PA

Yep use to race the GNCC's and some other local harescrambles. Got married and purchased a harley and that took up my weekends. "Togetherness" LOL

I keep saying i'm going to ride it and its not costing me anything but, deep down i'm not goign to ride again, I know that and have to admit that finally. The bike is race ready. I worked on it over the winter about 6 years or so ago getting it ready for race season. But never did ride it again. It even has a W.E.R. stabilizer on it that was recently done over by W.E.R. and I never road the bike with it on it. I'm sell equipment/oils and all. It has a newer rear tire, new front tire, new rear rotor, new rear pads, new front pads, new counter sprocket, new seat skin, fresh top end, new rear/front/swingarm bearings.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

This thread rocks. Where's nola_prius at to round out the comedy?


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## JPark (Aug 12, 2009)

m0ngy said:


> i gotta explain sh!t to a f&%ken noob now? ok, how many times you been hospitalised for the sake of mtb? how many bones you broken, wrists shattered, palms shredded, shins gouged, shoulders dislocated, knees bloodied... huh? the technology employed on todays $800 bike cost 3 or 4 grand circa '96, and i can tell you it was a knarly f&%ken riding experience, 'specially in the wet.
> 
> f&*k yeah having disc brakes is a safety issue. v-brakes run out after any given period, even the expensive systems employing parallelogram pad engagement (XTR). even avid bb7 discs kick ass over v-brakes, period. you people take the last 20 years of mtb evolution for granted, cause it was dudes like me crash testing the equipment for ya.


Kinda gotta disagree on this one. Properly maintained/adjusted rim brakes have enough stopping power to put you over the bars(front) or to lock(rear) in any conditions except possibly heavy ice. Disk brakes have many advantages, but saftey is not one of them.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

m0ngy said:


> man... wtf? you know next to nothing about this subject so please stop embarressing yourself. this is a mountain bike forum, and mtb is a BIG sport. in fact, it's HUGE, and exceedingly complicated. yet, i cannot resist from commenting on your clueless 'argument', perhaps in hope you'll keep your mouth shut next time.
> 
> ok, let us take helmets first; good (usually pricier) helmets are much more comfortable and offer improved, all-round head protection. sure, all helmets must pass some minimum safety standard, but let me assure you a good helmet, which no doubt costs money, will offer vastly improved head protection over a cheapy. plus, it'll probably look and feel good and you'll actually want to wear it. do you honestly think some helmets cost twice that of others simply because they look "pretty"?
> 
> disc brakes _are _the mainstream you idiot. virtually all new bikes do have disc brakes, precisely because they are such a vast improvement over v-brakes. i don't understand why you presume to have an opinion regarding a topic of which you know very little (or nothing at all) and have absolutely no real world experience.


I'm surprised you have time to post on a forum. Shouldn't you be out shredding the gnar?


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

Throw it up on one of the ECEA forums or Trail Rider magazine. Sounds like it's ready to ride and that will go a loooong way to buying a really nice bike. That's your play money not the wifey's LOL.

I dropped out of dirt bike riding for almost 13 years. Same deal, married, house, kids etc. What a HUGE mistake. I should have at least ridden 1 or 2 times a year. Now I'm back into it in a big way, also the mountain bike thing with my 3 kids ($$$) and if any money was available I'd still be doing the skiing thing. I sooooo miss skiing. All great hobbies that chew through money quick:madman: 

Hope the info helps you out and you get a great new ride. I'm loving my 08 CD Prophet....my entry level mtn. bike


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## pmoravek (Sep 16, 2009)

@loc

From one motorcycle racer to another, I have a bit of advice...
When you are working on your new bicycle, remember not to be ham-fisted.
The tolerances are soo much closer on a bicycle than your KTM.
(Not that I've ever made that kind of mistake...ahem!)
An eighth of a turn is a biiig adjustment on a MTB and you can strip stuff out and wring-off fastners in fairly short order if you treat them like your dirtbike.

My Dad used to say 
"A smart man learns from his mistakes, a brilliant SOB learns from somebody elses."


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## pmoravek (Sep 16, 2009)

...oh yeah,
If you are serious about selling the KTM you can put it up on www.thumpertalk.com
I've always had success on that board.

Any other motorcycle people with stuff to share?
I'm sure it would be helpful to loc.
(I'd be interested too.)


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

m0ngy said:


> i gotta explain sh!t to a f&%ken noob now? ok, how many times you been hospitalised for the sake of mtb? how many bones you broken, wrists shattered, palms shredded, shins gouged, shoulders dislocated, knees bloodied... huh? the technology employed on todays $800 bike cost 3 or 4 grand circa '96, and i can tell you it was a knarly f&%ken riding experience, 'specially in the wet.
> 
> f&*k yeah having disc brakes is a safety issue. v-brakes run out after any given period, even the expensive systems employing parallelogram pad engagement (XTR). even avid bb7 discs kick ass over v-brakes, period. you people take the last 20 years of mtb evolution for granted, cause it was dudes like me crash testing the equipment for ya.


:skep: V's, Canti's and Discs ALL have more than enough stopping power when adjusted/maintained properly......

you know better than that...:nono:


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## asheck (Jun 9, 2009)

IMO the best bang for the buck is the KTM. Disc brakes, great suspension, works great up and down the hills. I'm not about to get rid of mine. 

But I do have 1 of the Marin Alpine Trail 29ers. It is, imo the best sub 500 bike out there right now.


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## loc (Sep 24, 2009)

Well today visited another shop. Very nice guys and spent alot of time with me. Rode 3 bikes. GF Piranaha(19), Trek 3900(18), Trek 6500(19.5). 

Piranaha= felt streached out kinda like a flat back(seat hight set at 27 inchs). 
-Toro Fork,Shimano hydrolic brakes, SRAM X5 componets. $715

Trek 3900=only tried to see how the frame was. I like the more upright postion but after a bit I felt cramped, kinda like top tube was too short.

Trek 6500=Like this fit ALOT with the 19.5 frame this bike felt the best.Not too streched and a bit more upright. 
-Toro, Shimano Hydrolic Disc, Shimano (push pull) Componets $650
Issue was they dont have this bike on the 09 closeout for the price above in 19.5 only 18 so out of luck here. BUT shop said he maybe able to get one if I was set on it. 

Shop owner measured bars etc Said he he can change the neck on the Pirahana to match the same position as the 6500 and wanted me to try it right ther to make sure, but he said it will be the same. So this is where I stand now. 

The $500 that I wanted to spend just went to $700 plus tax. 

No I kinda got an idea of geometry on what I need. Now I need to compare the GF and 6500 geometry to the CAnnondale F5....but I believe the components are better on the GF and the 6500 for the additional money.....

SO NOW WHAT are your thoughts......I';m thinking RED GF Piranaha with more upright neck. I like the push push of the sram better than the push pull of the shimano.
(geeze this is scary, i'm starting to know the lingo...lol)

I'm thinking this is a good price on these bikes from what i have seen. Thoughts? Advise?

He recommended a Fox helmet for $85 after my 15% discount. or another for $45 but dont remember the name. Suggested an extra tube and inflation device and a saddle bag. a set of gloves and a multi tool.


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

An additional $200 is not much if its what you like...the 6500 seems like the best option.


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## loc (Sep 24, 2009)

addition: handle bars need to be at about 42 inchs for me with the 27inch saddle.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

6500 Ftw.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

loc said:


> The $500 that I wanted to spend just went to $700 plus tax.


Ahhhhhhh, I love buying/building a new bike. I stretched my budget by 100% on my last build 

I'd say, if the Piranha matches the 6500 in comfort, go for it. If it doesn't, try to get the shop to find you the 6500 in your size. Fit and comfort are the most important factors.


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## JPark (Aug 12, 2009)

+1 more for the 6500 if they can get it for you.
How much for the 2010 6500?


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

Gary Fisher and the Trek are almost the same bike (Trek owns Gary Fisher) with slight tweaks. GF has it's G2 fork geometry which is a little different and seems to work. Same fork, brakes, wheels, crank I think, pedals etc. I prefer the SRAM as well on the GF. Without checking I'll bet the frames are really close. Toss up really and the GF could be made to fit I'm sure.

Call every Trek dealer in a 50 mile radius and see if they have one in your size if that's what you really want. Somebody has got to have one available.

Fox Flux helmet is really nice and not a bad deal at $85 (I use one). Can be found on-line at times for a better price as can most things. Their Sidewinder gloves are really nice also and can be had for $19 on-line and usually over $40 at a bike shop. You need a couple tubes, patch kit, tire levers, small pump for trail use (bigger one for home/car with a presta adapter, good digital guage, Camelbak or similar and underseat pouch if you want and a nice multi tool for sure (I use a Crank Brothers) and a chain tool is not a bad idea either. A small one to carry on the trail and a much better big one for home use. Maybe a couple SRAM power links even. Eventually lots of other stuff.

IMO....sell the KTM first and then get a nice full suspension bike


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> I don't see where this unconditional loyalty towards lbs' is coming from...if only people were as faithful to their spouses as they are to their lbs'.
> 
> People window shop and go try out items in all sorts of shops in different catagories. All of sudden you do that while looking for a bicycle and you get labeled as a 'douche' if you end up buying somewhere else.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure who you were referring to, but I would not say we have unconditional loyalty to a lbs. I'm not even going to comment on the faithful sentence. You shouldn't have even went there. Yes he does not "technically" have an obligation to buy from the lbs, but he will be labeled as one of the guys who comes to the lbs for knowledge just to spend his money elsewhere. He can spend his money where he desires, but someone who doesn't buy from a lbs shouldn't expect them to go out of their way for them. If there's 3 shops then that's a little different, but there's only one shop where I live. I bet the shops that don't out of their way for someone ends up on the "I hate my LBS" threads.

My shop also has an extremely limited selection, but they can order basically anything. If you don't like it you have no obligation to buy it. I've seen people order and test 1k road wheels without an obligation to buy them.

Local bike shops do get paid to fix your bike, but like I said if you don't buy it there don't expect to get charged the same as everyone else or fixed as fast. If you can do most wrenching yourself you can save a lot of money.


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## loc (Sep 24, 2009)

Yep. Same componets with the exception of sram vs Shimano. The Trek retails for more so i'm not sure if that is why people are saying get it over the GF or not. I'm like the idea of the Genisis Technology. I rode and shifted the GF more today than the Trek 6500 and I seemed to like the Push Push more than the push pull shifting but i'm sure I would get use to either. I'm going to compare the specs of the frame now to see how much difference there really is....seems like just 1/2 difference in the hight of the bars seemed huge. The GF seem way more agressive but did not ride it with the new neck the shop suggested..........decision going to be made tomorrow so, give you thoughts...

Skidad, Hopefully KTM is sold....put it on craigslist last night...got a call tonight and a guy wants to drive 4 hours to see it and most likely buy it....Will know tomorrow at 10am when he calls.....I know whoever looks at it will buy it......heck it's got well over $600 in just extra gear/oils/boots/pads/WER, etc.......


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## Dictatorsaurus (Sep 11, 2009)

Rod said:


> I'm not sure who you were referring to, but I would not say we have unconditional loyalty to a lbs. I'm not even going to comment on the faithful sentence. You shouldn't have even went there. Yes he does not "technically" have an obligation to buy from the lbs, but he will be labeled as one of the guys who comes to the lbs for knowledge just to spend his money elsewhere. He can spend his money where he desires, but someone who doesn't buy from a lbs shouldn't expect them to go out of their way for them. If there's 3 shops then that's a little different, but there's only one shop where I live. I bet the shops that don't out of their way for someone ends up on the "I hate my LBS" threads.
> 
> My shop also has an extremely limited selection, but they can order basically anything. If you don't like it you have no obligation to buy it. I've seen people order and test 1k road wheels without an obligation to buy them.
> 
> Local bike shops do get paid to fix your bike, but like I said if you don't buy it there don't expect to get charged the same as everyone else or fixed as fast. If you can do most wrenching yourself you can save a lot of money.


Was not referring to anyone at all and wasn't trying to criticize. Just speaking my opinion like everyone else.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Dictatorsaurus said:


> Was not referring to anyone at all and wasn't trying to criticize. Just speaking my opinion like everyone else.


:thumbsup:


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## loc (Sep 24, 2009)

Well the KTM sold today. 

Bike purchase should be tomorrow if all works out. Intentions is to by the red piranha, but will also inquire about the 29er Cobia. If both priced the same the Cobia will be the choice. I dont mind the mechanical discs and this would be the only thing different that I can see.


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

Cool, I knew that KTM would sell quick. Sounds like someone got a sweet deal on that bike. What year was it anyway?

FWIW I compared the Trek and Fisher geometry specs and they are all within fractions of each other so pretty much the same bike except GF used his G2 geometry. I say get the GF and be a little different but that's the way I am (Gas Gas dirt bike). To make it feel like the Trek should be easy/cheap with the stem change so have the dealer do it before he even delivers the bike to you. Absolutely nothing wrong with mechanical disk brakes and some even prefer them to hydro's. Learn how to keep them properly adjusted and they work awesome.

The 29'r thing is interesting but I think the 650B size which splits the difference just might be the future size to have.

My entry level mtn bike is a 5.5" travel CD Prophet:thumbsup: No way my 52YO body was going hard tail up here in rocky/rooty New England. I'm also spoiled by 12" of suspension travel on the dirt bike so I just had to have a FS bike 

Lets see some pics of your new ride whatever you choose!!!


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## WVPedaler (May 20, 2009)

LOC, it sounds like you have your mind made up, I dont intend to try to through a wrench in your plans or anything but I ride a F5 and i love it, I got a medium frame and it fits awesome. I am a big guy too...You might also want to look into the cannondale a little deeper. The website says it comes with the Sram x-5 series components but mine was built with Sram x-7's. Not too much of a difference but a little. I also got my 2009 for a little less then what they were telling you. The LBS has a little wiggle room and the truth of it is in my area any business is good business. They may be hurting and could use a sale of any sort. Just putting in my .02 plus I ride a F5 and I needed to throw some support. Were you looking at the black one? It looks so sweet. That sold me...


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## loc (Sep 24, 2009)

The bike is in my truck. I will post pictures later today, but right now i'm going to take it for a ride after lunch. Are you wondering what it is? Piranha, Cobia, 6500, F5, F7, Hardrock, RockHopper, Rockhopper Sport 29er, Craigslisting used, "something else?"......mmmmm......

What we do know is it was not an online purchase since it is in my truck. LOL


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## pmoravek (Sep 16, 2009)

WHAT!!!!????!!!!
After all this you are going to leave us swinging in the breeze?
:madman: 

(Enjoy your maiden voyage Dude)
:thumbsup:


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

29er! Nice.


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

I am glad your happy with your purchase, BTW Pictures or it didn't happen


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## loc (Sep 24, 2009)

First of all I would like to thank everyone for their input. It helped out alot when making my decision. I visited alot of bike shops in the Pittsburgh South Hills Area and ended up talking to a customer at one shop and put me onto a shop that I was not aware of existed. They sold GF/TREK/SCOTT. I visited that shop for the first time and let them know what my background was and what I was looking for in a bike. The gentleman said i'm not an expert on Mount Bikes but if you help you with what I know and if we need more info then another person will need to help you out. I like that honesty. I ended up having alot more question and "the other gentleman" spent time with me and gave me alot of knowledge. I rode 3 bikes in the parking lot/grass/speed bumps/pot holes etc to get the feel. We narrowed it down to the GF Piranha and the Trek 6500. The Piranha was in stock in Gray and in Red. The 6500 was not available in a 19 inch frame. 

I have been reading alot about the 29ers so I started reading and searching on the net about them. I was thinking that was way more money than i wanted to spend. The GF Mamba was the lowest end with the DART3 fork and lesser Mechcanical disc brakes for $1000ish retail and got quoted from one LBS $800 for a 2009. At this point i was still thinking the Piranha was the right way to go since it way better equipment for the money. I was quoted $715 for the Piranha and even though this was way more than I wanted to go i knew it was quality stuff and would meet my needs. 

Then you guys started talking about Full Suspension bikes and i did not think I wanted to go that route even at 42 years old. So this brought me back to the 29ers thinking that it would help out with the "rough" ride and move over obstacles and bump a bit better than the Piranha and kinda get me closer to the smoothness of the Full Suspension. 

So today i went to the shop that I rode the 3 bikes at and spoke to the same gentleman and asked about the 29ers and he said he did not steer me in that direction due to me price range of the $500-$600 and was pushing me to $700 with the Piranha and did not want to put me in a bad postion. He said he would not recommend the GF Mamba so we looked at the GF Cobia. The Cobia has the same componets as the Piranha with the exception of the brakes. The Cobia had mechanical Avid BB5's and the Piranha had Shimano Hydralics. The hydralics were nice but the Avids were not bad from what I read. The Cobia left overs were out of 19 inch frames, and so i road a 17.5 frame. He said I was in between the two and could go either way. He set up the Cobia and measured all the leg angles and hand postions on the handlebars etc and got it set up. I rode it in the parking lot and seem to be fine. Actually better then the Piranha 19 inch that I felt streched out on. He said we can change the neck any way we need to make it feel better/different. 

So decison was made to get the Cobia in 17.5 with the stock neck(for now). Again it was more money than the Piranha but it was a 29er that I thought would fit my needs better on the fire roads and in the woods. I most likely will not do the real tight woods stuff at this time where the Piranha in 26 inch would be a bit better. 

So there it is 2009 Cobia with a cash price of $785 (plus seat bag,extra tube,pump,chainstay protector,Giro helmet x3) $930 out the door for the whole getup including tax. I think I need a combo tool as well and not sure what else is needed. Hopefully only another $70 to make it $1000 even and i'm done for awhile.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

NICE!....ride report is next right?


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

Very nice. You will enjoy.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

Super nice choice, man. Great bike and setup. Sounds like you found a pretty good shop as well.


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## JPark (Aug 12, 2009)

:thumbsup:


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## asheck (Jun 9, 2009)

Nice bike. You should be happy with the big wheels.


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## pmoravek (Sep 16, 2009)

Nice lookin' bike Dude.
I am positive you will enjoy it.

(+1 on the ride report)


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## enigami (Sep 29, 2009)

loc said:


> Trek 6500=Like this fit ALOT with the 19.5 frame this bike felt the best.Not too streched and a bit more upright.
> -Toro, Shimano Hydrolic Disc, Shimano (push pull) Componets $650
> Issue was they dont have this bike on the 09 closeout for the price above in 19.5 only 18 so out of luck here. BUT shop said he maybe able to get one if I was set on it. .


my riding partner just bought this bike. i took him to my LBS and it was sitting there and he bought it the next day. He said it was one of the best "feeling" bikes he has had. He took it on its first trail yesterday and said there we absolutly no problems. The price he paid for was $670 with tax.


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

Congrats on the new ride:thumbsup: Now hit some trails and let us know how it rides.

Yes, get a nice multi tool. Check the reviews section here on MTBR. Topeak Alien III looks to be really nice. I have the Crank Brothers which seems good so far.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

With your budget the 29er was the correct choice. You can run lower air pressure as compared to the 26er so you get a "softer" ride. You also need a multitool. Find something that has tire levers and a chain breaker. My park multitool was about 27 dollars. It's not perfect, but it has held up for years. The tire levers will bend so it doesn't snap together well. They didn't break though. It sounds like you found an excellent shop. Congrats on the purchase.


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## m0ngy (Dec 22, 2005)

yeah, that's a pretty cool first bike. i wish you could buy that much mtb here for less than a grand. would cost twice that here (australia).


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## LordDRIFT (Jul 10, 2009)

Bike shop this bike shop that...blah blah blah.. I hate the thought of a lot here, that its bike shop or nothing. The only things I buy in a bike shop are chain lube and tubes..Why? 'Cuz that's the only thing I can afford there. 

Why is it that when I called around to 3 different bike shops in my area to get a caliper adapter, they all told me I would have to bring the bike in and if they did not have the part they could order it and it would be there on "friday"? Could it be that they get parts from the same supplier? The middle man that you cut out by buying online? Why did I get quoted for a drive train upgrade @ 60% more than I payed online? Why do they never stock parts ,and probably end up ordering them from the same online supplier I do?

Who the hell cares about making friends at the bike shop? They are there to make money - it's like trying to get to know a stripper during a lap dance. 

I'm not saying there are not benefits to buying in a bike shop; they have killer bikes that you can't get elsewhere, and if you are not so good with your hands - invaluable (at a premium). 

When I'm ready to drop top fuel 9 money on a top fuel 9, I'll be going to an lbs. I'll not be going there for love and affection, nor their overpriced accessories and components. Until then I'll get my frames and parts online and build my own bikes.

All I'm saying is don't try to push the lbs down someones throat. It is not for everyone in a "bang for the buck" situation, and an alternative may be better suited. Some of you guys may have had good lbs service, but they are not all golden - so do not portray them as such. As with any business there will be a different experience. So please spare me the bike snobbery when it comes to why you feel your lbs bought stuff is superior to the rest.


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## LordDRIFT (Jul 10, 2009)

trailville said:


> . However, once you have your LBS investing the time in sizing bikes for you and helping you to understand the specs, I think it's kind of douchie to then go and buy online..


Agreed - to an extent. But if you are are testing different bikes then its moot.


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## pmoravek (Sep 16, 2009)

You don't feel like you are being a bit of a "reverse snob" by belly-aching about the local bike shops? 
The are running a business and they are trying to make money. Most bike shops aren't pulling down a fortune of profit and they are in it for the love of the sport.
They do cost a bit more than buying your stuff direct. 
If you are they kind of guy that wants to build up his own stuff...then good on ya.
But just because that's the way you do it, don't be hatin' on folks who want to make use of other options that are available to them.
I think loc got a good deal on a cool bike.
Let the man enjoy it.


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## LordDRIFT (Jul 10, 2009)

pmoravek said:


> You don't feel like you are being a bit of a "reverse snob" by belly-aching about the local bike shops?
> 
> The are running a business and they are trying to make money. Most bike shops aren't pulling down a fortune of profit and they are in it for the love of the sport.
> *The first part of this statement is what I basically said ..the second part is kind of a contradiction...
> ...


*Maybe you need to re-read my post. My post had nothing to do with loc or his transaction. How am I hating when my post is basically saying "stop hating"? Did you miss the part about about the bike I want to get from an lbs?*

Let me repeat: *I hate the thought of a lot here, that its bike shop or nothing.*


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## pmoravek (Sep 16, 2009)

Maybe I didn't understand your point.
I got the feeling that you were banging on the guy for utilizing the "Bike Shop Option"
My point was that there is more than one way to do things. 
If I got it wrong, I apologize..
(I like my crow served with gravy thank you)

I just don't think most folks take the time to think about how business works. Nor do they think about what the purpose of a business is in the first place.
That local bike shop needs to make money. I am NOT saying you should spend foolishly if they have something that is really over-priced. Nor should you spend your money there if they have been complete asses to you.
But I like to think they we as enthusiasts should support the industry to a certain extent.

Your thoughts?


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## Spawne32 (May 22, 2009)

best bang for the buck hardtails ive ever seen

http://www.forgebikes.com/
Olpran Extreme

and best bang for the buck FS bikes ive ever seen

http://www.forgebikes.com/
http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/IGN-SPT-Details.html
K2 bikes


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

loc, nice first bike. Well done!

It's not easy to sift through the BS.

I did see one comment of yours that no one addressed and that was the 2-watt LBS guy that said to steer clear of Giant bikes while recommending a Cannondale (F7?) :nono: Sounds more like a salesman that's afraid to go head to head on price/specs. I personally ride a Giant, two Cannondales and a Kona. My son has two Giants and a Specialized and my daughter has two Specialized and a Cannondale. They're all very good along with several others like Fisher, Trek, Jamis, etc. It would be hard to go wrong with any of those well known brands if the bike fits your needs and is sized correctly.

Now go enjoy your Gory Fister! It really is a great looking rig :thumbsup:


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

LordDRIFT said:


> Bike shop this bike shop that...blah blah blah.. I hate the thought of a lot here, that its bike shop or nothing. The only things I buy in a bike shop are chain lube and tubes..Why? 'Cuz that's the only thing I can afford there.
> 
> Why is it that when I called around to 3 different bike shops in my area to get a caliper adapter, they all told me I would have to bring the bike in and if they did not have the part they could order it and it would be there on "friday"? Could it be that they get parts from the same supplier? The middle man that you cut out by buying online? Why did I get quoted for a drive train upgrade @ 60% more than I payed online? Why do they never stock parts ,and probably end up ordering them from the same online supplier I do?
> 
> ...


It sounds like you have some bad bike shops in your area. Our local bike shop is a local hang out for cyclists, has organized group rides, etc. You can make friends, especially if you're a beginner at the lbs. It is a good place to find out information about trails, people you can ride with, and learn about the sport. I agree that it's a business first and foremost, but not all bike shops are like the ones you describe. If they are overpriced you should spend your money elsewhere. You do get more bang for your buck online, but as with everything in life there are ups and downs to every situation. It seems as if your experiences with bike shops isn't the norm fortunately.


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## LordDRIFT (Jul 10, 2009)

Rod said:


> It sounds like you have some bad bike shops in your area. Our local bike shop is a local hang out for cyclists, has organized group rides, etc. You can make friends, especially if you're a beginner at the lbs. It is a good place to find out information about trails, people you can ride with, and learn about the sport. I agree that it's a business first and foremost, but not all bike shops are like the ones you describe. If they are overpriced you should spend your money elsewhere. You do get more bang for your buck online, but as with everything in life there are ups and downs to every situation. It seems as if your experiences with bike shops isn't the norm fortunately.


I agree, and I know not all bike shops are like the ones I described - that is exactly the point I was trying to make. They may not be all bad ( I use the term bad loosely, since its really relative) but they are certainly not all the buddy buddy all chummy goodness that some on here would have others believe.

I don't know if Wheel World is considered a LBS, but I went there when I was vacationing in California; if they where all like that ..then I'd probably be a little more enthusiastic towards lbs as a whole.

Overall I don't like when LBS fanboys turn there noses up because you consider or went the online route.


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