# 900$ in credit



## BurntBear (Apr 11, 2006)

Hi I just got 900 dollars worth of credit from performance. I love my xc bike and have no problems with it so I'm looking for a full dj/urban bike. The best (rather only) option seems to be the mongoose hardball. Would anyone recommand it or an even better option under 900?


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## derfernerf (Jun 25, 2006)

c-dale chase, specialized p.series


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## BurntBear (Apr 11, 2006)

Needs to be sold at performance. Or do they sell them and im not aware of it?


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## theg1ant (Oct 21, 2005)

Bikes sold at performance in your area (i saw your thread on dc street too) are rocky mountain , mongoose. schwinn, gt. iron horse, and there might be a few giants left at the rockville pike store. I say try to see if there is a rockymountain flow from last year that has been discounted into your price range. If there is a giant stp you could get that. I wouldnt reccomend a mongoose or a schwinn. The gts for 07 look pretty good for the money and you might find a decent ironhorse although those will probably be more freeride oriented


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

ohh, if you want one of the most indestructable frames ever, look into the ironhorse chimpera and bakuto hardtails. you cant go wrong with em' !


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## BurntBear (Apr 11, 2006)

Both Iron Horses are awesome for freeriding but theyre heavy bricks


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Both those IH bikes suck for urban. Get a Porter or a Flow.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Both those IH bikes suck for urban. Get a Porter or a Flow.


they do just fine for DJ and urban. ignore will. I think the porter was stopped being made in 04 and RM flow ..I've heard some bad things about


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## Raghavan (Aug 14, 2005)

Specialized P1.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

todd_freeride said:


> they do just fine for DJ and urban. ignore will. I think the porter was stopped being made in 04 and RM flow ..I've heard some bad things about


They're both tall, heavy, and on the long side. They feel very wooden in the urban setting.

I think you're right about the Porter being discontinued, but you can still find them at a few Performance shops. And they were sweet rides. They looked funky though.

Performance doesn't carry Specialized...


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## americanethics (Dec 1, 2005)

don't ignore will, he's right.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> They're both tall, heavy, and on the long side. They feel very wooden in the urban setting.
> 
> I think you're right about the Porter being discontinued, but you can still find them at a few Performance shops. And they were sweet rides. They looked funky though.
> 
> Performance doesn't carry Specialized...


naw, you must have ridden a 17 or a 19" my friend (who has a chimpera) rides a 15" for park. rigid fork and everything,actually very flickable. but yea, a little on the heavy side ( 32 pounds)

werent the porter frames extremly small too ? something like a 20.5 inch toptube on a 12" frame, and the "long" was like 21.3 and a 13.5" frame ?


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## J-dogg (Aug 7, 2006)

hey americanetchics, you listen to aus-rotten?


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## Raghavan (Aug 14, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Performance doesn't carry Specialized...


Well, that sucks.


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## bleu (Jan 24, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> They're both tall, heavy, and on the long side. They feel very wooden in the urban setting.
> 
> I think you're right about the Porter being discontinued, but you can still find them at a few Performance shops. And they were sweet rides. They looked funky though.
> 
> Performance doesn't carry Specialized...


IH stopped making the Porter after 05 after Eric went to Haro.

If you can find one, snatch it up. Bound to be discounted too cause it'll be a year or two old. Sweet bikes.

The Chimpera and Bakuto are built for trailriding and freeride...they'd suck a lot of ass for DJ or park.


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## theg1ant (Oct 21, 2005)

Raghavan said:


> Specialized P1.


Dude read the thread 

The iron horse bikes are very heavy as they are similar to the norco shore hardtails for usage. They might be ok but not great. Listen to will he knows what he is talking about.


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## justintime6423 (Oct 1, 2006)

I got a gary fisher mullet single speed its only 600 bucks and i can really throw it around. I just landed my first backflip on it after manyy spills and the bikes thru as it was when i bought it.


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## americanethics (Dec 1, 2005)

J-dogg said:


> hey americanetchics, you listen to aus-rotten?


well you can see my avatar, but yeah I do. I think they had very cogent lyrics and a good message. Are you into that kind of stuff?


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## J-dogg (Aug 7, 2006)

americanethics said:


> well you can see my avatar, but yeah I do. I think they had very cogent lyrics and a good message. Are you into that kind of stuff?


most defenitely. i have them cranked right now. flags will cover coffins. their producer went under i think so my order for the rest of their cd's didnt go through. bike wise get a chase or a used complete. look on pinkbike


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Okay folks, read the thread. He has the credit at PERFORMANCE. Therefore the bike has to be from PEFORMANCE.

Ironhorse, Rocky Mountain, Schwinn, Mongoose, GT, Fuji, and MAYBE some left over Giants.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

bleu said:


> The Chimpera and Bakuto are built for trailriding and freeride...they'd suck a lot of ass for DJ or park.


mine does absolutly fine for DJ, a little big for park, but I have the 17" frame. why do people keep saying the yakuza hardtails arent going to be good for DJ and park....do you own one ? no. I've been riding it for a little under a month now, only thing thats off about it, is its as beefy as a morphine and weighs a little bit more than 30 pounds.


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

Those brands unfortunately don't make a "real" DJ/Park bike. 

Maybe sell your credit to some guy going into the store for like 10 percent off and go somewhere else?


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

Ojai Bicyclist said:


> Those brands unfortunately don't make a "real" DJ/Park bike.
> 
> Maybe sell your credit to some guy going into the store for like 10 percent off and go somewhere else?


ever hear of the GT ruckus ?


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

Actually I forgot about that bike. It's probably your best option. That's the cool looking gold one, right?


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

todd_freeride said:


> mine does absolutly fine for DJ, a little big for park, but I have the 17" frame. why do people keep saying the yakuza hardtails arent going to be good for DJ and park....do you own one ? no. I've been riding it for a little under a month now, only thing thats off about it, is its as beefy as a morphine and weighs a little bit more than 30 pounds.


The Morphine is also a freeride rig. Lots of excessive fat for urban/park.

Stop talking.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

You can always ask Performance to order you a frame. Their distributors should carry other brands. 

I know QBP has BMC, DMR, Ellsworth, Gunnar, Ind. Fab, Intense, Litespeed, Merlin, Salsa, Serotta, Seven, Surly, Turner, Santa Cruz, and Yeti.

BTI has .243, Addict, Astrix, Atomlab, Cove, Identiti, Woodman, and Voodoo.

Some frames are not carried in stock, and the distributor will need to make a special order. QBP requires that some of those frames be ordered through bike builder (means you'll have to get it as a complete).

Most smaller companies are also willing to work with shops. Even if the shops aren't set up as dealers, they'll sell bikes/frames to the shops. It's to get their name out there.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

Ojai Bicyclist said:


> Actually I forgot about that bike. It's probably your best option. That's the cool looking gold one, right?


 hmm, they have a couple of models out now. I know I'm really digging the UF series. the 24" is a sick bike, we just got one in.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> The Morphine is also a freeride rig. Lots of excessive fat for urban/park.
> 
> Stop talking.


ohh, so you want thinner frames for mountain biking. okay, I'll make sure to run a stumpjumper at whistler next time :thumbsup: its all a matter of opinion, some people like the larger fatter frames ( like me, Haro Escape, P. series, norco shore, morphine) or there are the smaller frames (mob, nemisis, .243 ) you get the picture. thing is though, yakuza is somewhat able to do park ...a morphine would really be pushing it.

check out gt bikes for this year. they have a couple of models that you can choose from. I like the UF regular and 24" but you might want a little more bike than a park/street rig. they have the ruckus DJ wich is pretty nice, but above your price limit by like 200 bucks


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

You're comparing apples and oranges is what I'm getting at. Your lack of experience continues to show.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> You're comparing apples and oranges is what I'm getting at. Your lack of experience continues to show.


just because one is beefier means that its bad for urban ? no. I have plenty of experience to know that the Yakuza series is plenty fine for street and park. if anyone here is ignorant to the idea of a FR hardtail being used for street, its you. because I've been doing it for almost 4 years. sure theres a little better. but nothing at performance bikes is going to beat out the yakuza as a multi purpose 4X


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

todd_freeride said:


> just because one is beefier means that its bad for urban ? no. I have plenty of experience to know that the Yakuza series is plenty fine for street and park. if anyone here is ignorant to the idea of a FR hardtail being used for street, its you. because I've been doing it for almost 4 years. sure theres a little better. but nothing at performance bikes is going to beat out the yakuza as a multi purpose 4X


Do you even know what 4x is? It's 4 riders on one track out of a starting gate. And that is NOT the Yakuza.

And I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm saying it's the WRONG TOOL. And the p.bike was more an urban bike than a freeride bike.

I didn't say beefy was bad. But it's heavy (in the bad sense), it's fat (in the bad sense), and it's on the long side (in the bad sense).

If he's getting a new bike, why half-ass it? Get something built for the intended purpose. It'll ride nicer, and he'll enjoy it more.


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Do you even know what 4x is? It's 4 riders on one track out of a starting gate. And that is NOT the Yakuza.
> 
> And I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm saying it's the WRONG TOOL. And the p.bike was more an urban bike than a freeride bike.
> 
> ...


You said it very well.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

todd_freeride said:


> just because one is beefier means that its bad for urban ? no. I have plenty of experience to know that the Yakuza series is plenty fine for street and park. if anyone here is ignorant to the idea of a FR hardtail being used for street, its you. because I've been doing it for almost 4 years. sure theres a little better. but nothing at performance bikes is going to beat out the yakuza as a multi purpose 4X


give it up bro... you'll just contradict yourself here again in another week or so... just like the jive about your stance...
the size of the frames tubing or "beefiness" has NOTHING to do with the geometry, which is the most important determining factor.... Listen to Will.

I do agree with you though, that the GT UF's look pretty nice for the price for sure, I was surprised about that. the little rigid 24... BurntBear, if I were you, that is the route I would look at, then spend the extra credit you have left over for upgrades.


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## americanethics (Dec 1, 2005)

the ruckus uf 24 looks great. Will has an excellent idea with the distibutors though. go with a either a dmr or something like that from QBP or BTI or order yourself up one of those uf 24. That thing actually looks quite nice. If you did go the route of the gt, you could pimp it quite nicely with the money remaining.


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## J-dogg (Aug 7, 2006)

gt ruckus ss, then put new fork and brakes on.


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## dd13 (Oct 6, 2005)

what if...you took your 900,bought all the compnents,or some package if they have one,then work a little,make 2-300$ and buy yourslef a decetn frame...i mean an identiti dr. jekyll is only 320...or something like a voodoo shango...


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## theg1ant (Oct 21, 2005)

dd13 said:


> what if...you took your 900,bought all the compnents,or some package if they have one,then work a little,make 2-300$ and buy yourslef a decetn frame...i mean an identiti dr. jekyll is only 320...or something like a voodoo shango...


The 07 stp frame is only 300 bucks. I like his idea the best. But if you must buy complete get the ruckus ss or uf


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## Raghavan (Aug 14, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Do you even know what 4x is? It's 4 riders on one track out of a starting gate. And that is NOT the Yakuza.
> 
> And I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm saying it's the WRONG TOOL. And the p.bike was more an urban bike than a freeride bike.
> 
> ...


pwned.
So, Performance can't order any manufacturers outside those listed? So you can't order Spec. even special ordered throught them? If i were you, i'd just try to get maybe give the $900 to someone else for $850 and get a Specialized P1. Sounds like that's one of the best for you.
I have limited riding time with it, but from what i can tell, it's a nice bike.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Specialized has gotten [email protected] about who they sell to. And Performance is not exactly the most reputable shop. I have worked there briefly. And for the money, there are much better options than the Specialized.

Scroll down, and you'll see a list of frames available from QBP or BTI. I don't know who Performance uses for their distributor, but I imagine that they atleast have QBP.


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## Raghavan (Aug 14, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Specialized has gotten [email protected] about who they sell to. And Performance is not exactly the most reputable shop. I have worked there briefly. And for the money, there are much better options than the Specialized.
> 
> Scroll down, and you'll see a list of frames available from QBP or BTI. I don't know who Performance uses for their distributor, but I imagine that they atleast have QBP.


Well, that sucks.
But the IH Bakuto that Todd has been recommending is $740, and for $770 i'd much rather get the P1.
I'd just get a GT ruckus then.
Or that build kit and a new frame like previously suggested.


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## PLURPIMPIN (Nov 3, 2005)

the flow is just about the only way to go for an urban bike. as a performance employee i can tell you that everythign else we carry is crap. it's sad cause i can remember teh days wehn we carried giant and kona and other REAL bikes. but go for the flow man they're sick bikes, i have a friend that rocks one and loves it


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Do you even know what 4x is? It's 4 riders on one track out of a starting gate. And that is NOT the Yakuza.
> 
> And I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm saying it's the WRONG TOOL. And the p.bike was more an urban bike than a freeride bike.
> 
> ...


just to proove you wrong again will, try this on for size anyone who thinks a DH hardtail isnt going to work for park riding, is wrong. I've been riding my bakuto in the park all week. its a matter of just adjusting your body to the frame. it is a tiny bit big, but that means a little more effort, wich intern makes you a tiny bit of a better rider, because when you get on a smaller bike, you will have tons more skill (i.e) mostly being able to get more rotation.

as for the bakuto being 740.00 whare did you see that price ? I got mine for $549.99


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

You didn't prove anything. I saw a pic of some BMX dude throwing a pocket air on an old 10-speed. You probably don't know what a 10 speed is, but the point is that it's not about the bike. Sure you could ride park on that thing, but IF YOU'RE GONNA SHELL OUT BIG BUCKS GET THE BEST BIKE FOR THE JOB.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

Ojai Bicyclist said:


> You didn't prove anything. I saw a pic of some BMX dude throwing a pocket air on an old 10-speed. You probably don't know what a 10 speed is, but the point is that it's not about the bike. Sure you could ride park on that thing, but IF YOU'RE GONNA SHELL OUT BIG BUCKS GET THE BEST BIKE FOR THE JOB.


I've got a video of a person doing flatland on an old roadie bike is someone wants that too. the deal is. if you want a bike for park, the STP is just as capable as a yakuza, and vise versa. the only way you are going to get something to beat that is like the GT UF 24" or something way more park specific. for 2007 the STP's have become a tad bit more DJ oriented than park. just component wise. its freaking hard to use a bike for all purposes. I've been there done that, and now we encourage riders at our shop to build something that will work better. half assing it would be "ohh, I want to do DJ, park and Freeride" a STP wont hold up to very much freeride abuse. nor will the Geo be accpeting of a fork over 100mm. either build something extremly versatile or build something specific.


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## americanethics (Dec 1, 2005)

http://www.etniesbmx.com/blog/2006/05/18/is-it-all-the-same/


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## Raghavan (Aug 14, 2005)

todd_freeride said:


> just to proove you wrong again will, try this on for size anyone who thinks a DH hardtail isnt going to work for park riding, is wrong. I've been riding my bakuto in the park all week. its a matter of just adjusting your body to the frame. it is a tiny bit big, but that means a little more effort, wich intern makes you a tiny bit of a better rider, because when you get on a smaller bike, you will have tons more skill (i.e) mostly being able to get more rotation.
> 
> as for the bakuto being 740.00 whare did you see that price ? I got mine for $549.99


At Performance, where he has to buy the bike.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

todd_freeride said:


> anyone who thinks a DH hardtail isnt going to work for park riding, is wrong. I've been riding my bakuto in the park all week. its a matter of just adjusting your body to the frame. it is a tiny bit big, but that means a little more effort, when you get on a smaller bike, you will have tons more skill (i.e) mostly being able to get more rotation.


you just made Will's argument for him.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

todd_freeride said:


> just to proove you wrong again will, try this on for size anyone who thinks a DH hardtail isnt going to work for park riding, is wrong. I've been riding my bakuto in the park all week. its a matter of just adjusting your body to the frame. it is a tiny bit big, but that means a little more effort, wich intern makes you a tiny bit of a better rider, because when you get on a smaller bike, you will have tons more skill (i.e) mostly being able to get more rotation.
> 
> as for the bakuto being 740.00 whare did you see that price ? I got mine for $549.99


Wow. You are incredibly stupid.

I didn't say you can't use it for park. I said it's the wrong tool. And that there are bikes better suited to it. And to be honest. Your video is hardly proof.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

Raghavan said:


> At Performance, where he has to buy the bike.


they'll price match it. trust me, they'll be makeing 49.99 I used to work for Performance,...such a bad bike shop their desperate for sales


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

americanethics said:


> http://www.etniesbmx.com/blog/2006/05/18/is-it-all-the-same/


great link, funny. the road bike spine!


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Wow. You are incredibly stupid.
> 
> I didn't say you can't use it for park. I said it's the wrong tool. And that there are bikes better suited to it. And to be honest. Your video is hardly proof.


yea, but heres the deal. the more park oriented it is, the less trail and FR oriented it is. the ruckus UF wont be very nice on large drops or rockgardens. and you can go ahead and stop with the name calling, its getting old. and shows your immaturity.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

BikeSATORI said:


> you just made Will's argument for him.


not really. he's saying that this kid should start out with just a park bike. but I'm saying that might not be the best idea. what if this kid wants to hit up some trails or do any freeride, he wont be able too. plus, you start with a bigger bike in the park, makes you a much better rider. when I started park riding, I was on a 5 inch fully. all my friends were on BMX bikes. I became a much better rider than them and fast, because I had to know what to controll.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

He didn't say he wants a trail bike. He wants an urban bike. He already has an XC rig. 

I called you stupid. It's telling the truth. You're being immature by being a stubborn little brat.


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

hhaha....i like the 110 lb bike hip...thingy


anyway, get a park bike, todd is not that smart, you have an xc bike you can ride some xc trails with. you said you wanted to ride park so get a bike that will aid you not hold you back....a 30 lb fr ht will not help you in any sort of way in the park, probably no where unless you are riding drops and stuff on a free ride trail.

i havent checked out preformance bikes before but if they sell some bmx's that might even be better. riding with no squish will help immensley with your flow and style on trails.

get a park bike, not a free ride one.

oh and the package deal would be so much better, spend the 9 on some parts/package, and spend an additional 3-4 on a frame

^^tis a great idea


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## americanethics (Dec 1, 2005)

I dunno about the weight. I totally agree with not buying a freeride hardtail like todd was suggesting, but often heavier components are still a better idea because they are stronger. Just whatever you do, don't get an azonic steelhead. I bout one a while ago to use as a street rat. Here's som pics:
















it didn't take long before I cracked it. That's one case when heavier wasn't better.


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## theg1ant (Oct 21, 2005)

todd_freeride said:


> the deal is. if you want a bike for park, the STP is just as capable as a yakuza, and vise versa. the only way you are going to get something to beat that is like the GT UF 24" or something way more park specific.... a STP wont hold up to very much freeride abuse. nor will the Geo be accpeting of a fork over 100mm. .


uuuuuh no. The stp is way better at park riding because of its weight and geo. A gt uf might be able to beat it but definatly not a yakuza. The stp will take freeride abuse as i know people who ride them for fr and i shuttle with them myself. As for not taking a fork over 100mm your wrong there too. I used it stock for park and it was great. I switched out the fork (now is a gold label) and it is even better. For shutteling i put a 6 inch travel (150mm) sherman on and it feels great geo wise for freeriding. The stock fork (dirt jam) is naturally an inch taller than manitou fr/dj forks so you can put a 6 inch travel manitou fork on the front and will not hurt the frame unless you are sedin it off cliffs. Dont talk about a bike that youve never ridden because you dont have any experience with it

Just for the record i dont like getting in e-arguements but i had to fix this


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## BurntBear (Apr 11, 2006)

Well I bought the mongoose hardball and it came in today. Everything on the bike seems to be really good from frame to wheels. I think it might even be a rival for bikes that cost hundreds of dollars more but I only rode it for half an hour.It weighs exactly 30lbs and along with 24's with its geometry the bike pretty much jumps for you. Everyone thnx for all your suggestions.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

americanethics said:


> I dunno about the weight. I totally agree with not buying a freeride hardtail like todd was suggesting, but often heavier components are still a better idea because they are stronger. Just whatever you do, don't get an azonic steelhead. I bout one a while ago to use as a street rat. Here's som pics:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Heavier components are not always stronger. But usually cheaper.


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## Raghavan (Aug 14, 2005)

Congrats on the Mongoose, but i'd rather get 26" wheels because the 24 looks ugly on that frame.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

It's not your bike. Is the frame 24 specific? I know that it's a little bit on the long side, but a great starting point. You'll have fun with it.


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

theg1ant said:


> uuuuuh no. The stp is way better at park riding because of its weight and geo. A gt uf might be able to beat it but definatly not a yakuza. The stp will take freeride abuse as i know people who ride them for fr and i shuttle with them myself. As for not taking a fork over 100mm your wrong there too. I used it stock for park and it was great. I switched out the fork (now is a gold label) and it is even better. For shutteling i put a 6 inch travel (150mm) sherman on and it feels great geo wise for freeriding. The stock fork (dirt jam) is naturally an inch taller than manitou fr/dj forks so you can put a 6 inch travel manitou fork on the front and will not hurt the frame unless you are sedin it off cliffs. Dont talk about a bike that youve never ridden because you dont have any experience with it
> 
> Just for the record i dont like getting in e-arguements but i had to fix this


.

bike I havent had experience with ? dude, not only DO I own a Yakuza bakuto, BUT I used to have a STP. there are quite a few people out there that are cracking the STP frame. they usually crack right at the head tube. I know my friend almost snapped his on two, and thats only with a 90mm sherman jumper on the front. can imagine someone riding with a 6" fork on there.

second, go ahead ...I challenge you. go ride a 17" yakuza hardtail frame in a park or for street. they're actually extremly flexable for how big the bike is. something wierd with the geo there. plus its got a 1.5 headtube  total kudos for that frame.

my old ghetto $150.00 STP. (later had the stance static on it and was swapped to SS, then got rid of the stupid seat.


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## Raghavan (Aug 14, 2005)

XSL_WiLL said:


> It's not your bike. Is the frame 24 specific? I know that it's a little bit on the long side, but a great starting point. You'll have fun with it.


I know it's not mine but if i had one i'd put 26" on.


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## BurntBear (Apr 11, 2006)

I bent my rear wheel 2 times on my old kona scab so maybe 24's will last longer but it is compatible with 26s. As for looks they actually look pretty nice on the bike, sort of like an overgrown bmx bike (i like it anyway). I took a picture of it but with my razr so its not that good










and my xc


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

BurntBear said:


> I bent my rear wheel 2 times on my old kona scab so maybe 24's will last longer but it is compatible with 26s. As for looks they actually look pretty nice on the bike, sort of like an overgrown bmx bike (i like it anyway). I took a picture of it but with my razr so its not that good
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't imagine the seat angle on your XC bike being comfortable. You need to tidy up those housing runs too.


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## BurntBear (Apr 11, 2006)

Haha "tidy up" isnt in my dictionary as long as it doesnt get in my way.


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

very nice, im diggin the mongoose.


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