# Schwalbe tires! Big Betty and muddy mary?



## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Ive run minions, Kenda nevegals and BG's now Im looking to possibly give these a shot they seem to get rave reviews in Germany and apparently they are supposed to be comparable to minions and Nevegals as far as grip.
I saw the big bettys and the single plys are thicker then Kendas as well as have a cross pattern sidewall making it thicker and durable. They are a little heavier than the single ply kendas but a good thickness cross between DH casings and single plys. They use the gooey rubber on par with 40d slow reezay and stick E as well as they have a triple compound like the 3c.
either dh or single!

Anyone have time on them?

Muddy Mary








Big Betty


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

A friend of mine runs a Big Betty, says he likes it. Sorry I couldn't be more help.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Khemical said:


> A friend of mine runs a Big Betty, says he likes it. Sorry I couldn't be more help.


Thats cool I appreciate it.


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## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

I'm curious too. They're supposed to have a UST version coming out... :thumbsup:


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## clarkalewis (Mar 2, 2004)

betty's are great for trail riding. grip is no where near minion's, but quite good. sidewalls are somewhere between single and dh, a good balance for the weight. but causes too much roll over for aggressive dh riding (they are tall, big-volume tires!). haven't tried the mary's.


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## combatkimura (Jul 17, 2007)

Meh, I'm a 200# masher, gots no time for them thar single plys

If you want to tell me about a new 2.5 dual ply Maxxis Ardent or ADvantage UST that is coming out I'll be listening.

I do like the tread patterns though and the guys at Speedgoat rave about their grip on the trail.


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

Lots of people choose the BB over the nevegal because it is similar - high volume, tall, lots of grip and supposedly a bit better rolling.
I am waiting on the USTs. 
They are expensive though, and hard to get a hold of FWIW.


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## ToddN (Feb 2, 2007)

I currently have a Muddy Mary on the front (gooey gluey), and go back and forth between a Big Betty (triple compound) or Al Mighty (gooey gluey) in the back. The gooey gluey rubber is pretty sticky, and I used to run michelin's. All the tires are very bomb proof, I hardly ever flat with them, but the Big Betty would be better run with the gluey style. The triple compound is a little hard, but rolls very fast on hard pack. A set of gluey Mary's f and b would prob be a great set up. Also the Mary's seem pretty light for what they are. I don't know what the actual weight is.


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## SilverSpot (Apr 23, 2004)

I had the BB (gooey gluey) on the front a while back and didn't like it at first. Just didn't seem to grip as well for me as others were saying it does. Put a minion DHF 2 ply 42a on there and loved it (except for the weight). I recently went back to my BB for a second chance and now I really like it - found out that it is very sensitive to air pressure. Too much and you start sacrificing grip. Too little and you start rolling over. I think I've got it 'just right' at about 28 psi. Great grip, low RR, big volume... it's all good.


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## A Grove (Nov 12, 2006)

BB's are REALLY REALLY popular in the world of Stock Trials, FYI. Maybe something to consider. I am, however, running Mobsters on my stock... or will be.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

How are the mudy marys specifically? Are they a good DH tire with grip on loose over hard pack, from what I gather they are great for wet conditions as well. (I get away with single ply kendas most of the tim Im pretty smooth till I start hucking and bashin for fun!)


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## ToddN (Feb 2, 2007)

Mary's are pretty nice all around. Good grip ( I run about 32psi) roll pretty well, and haven't flatted, and seem light. I would like to get another for the back to see how that feels. Just raced last weekend in the rain with a Mary on the front and it hooked up real well!

I'm not real impressed with the Betty's grip, but really rolls fast as a rear tire. Not so good in wet conditions, but nice on hard pack, pretty light too.


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

clarkalewis said:


> betty's are great for trail riding. grip is no where near minion's, but quite good. sidewalls are somewhere between single and dh, a good balance for the weight. but causes too much roll over for aggressive dh riding (they are tall, big-volume tires!). haven't tried the mary's.


Agree with CL, Big Betty's are ok for trail riding but I wouldn't DH with them, Muddy Mary's look interesting, sound good I haven't tried them either, I still like my Minion up front over the BB for hard cornering and grip, BB is a nice in between AM tire.

BB is available in UST now but theyre out of stock..


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Lot of people like BBs for trail tires, but they are not going to be a good replacemement for dual ply minions or similar tires. I've use the much lighter triple compound Nobby Nic as a front tire for trail use with decent results... they are surprisingly durable for a big light tire.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2003)

The Muddy Mary really interests me and I've tried to get them in the past, but my two main distributors don't offer that Schwalbe tire. I may have to become a Schwalbe dealer to give those a try. They remind me a lot of the Tioga White Tiger. A tire that had traction everywhere like nothing else, but....I couldn't keep the side knobs on it and it rolled slower than any DH tire I've ever tried (I've tried most of them). It's been a few years since I tested the White Tigers, maybe they've solved the dissappearing knob problem?


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> The Muddy Mary really interests me and I've tried to get them in the past, but my two main distributors don't offer that Schwalbe tire. I may have to become a Schwalbe dealer to give those a try. They remind me a lot of the Tioga White Tiger. A tire that had traction everywhere like nothing else, but....I couldn't keep the side knobs on it and it rolled slower than any DH tire I've ever tried (I've tried most of them). It's been a few years since I tested the White Tigers, maybe they've solved the dissappearing knob problem?


Let me know, my bud rides for them in Germany and has teh hook up. Im picking up atleast 3 sets of the muddy marys from him I just wanted some input before I decided to start dismounting other tires.


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## derekr (Mar 21, 2008)

I run big betty's on my hardtail for trail and light freeride, but i wouldnt put them on my DH bike, stick with my minions! 

They are pretty fast rolling and high volume tho for not alot of weight 800 odd g's.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

OK I placed my order today with schwalbe toady and need anyones exeprience on these. 
I ordered 2 UST 2.4 big bettys, 2 2.35 Muddy marys and 2 2.5 muddy marys.

Combos are 
BB rear MM front
MM f/r
BB f/r

Thoughts on them as well as anymore experience is appreciated.

I did ride a MM and it stuck to loose over hard pack but I blew an almighty up in the rear on casing a jump so swapped tires again. 1 day is OK but doesnt count for multiple experiences.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

I got a couple BBs in the soft compound. On the trail, It makes a great front tire but is too slow rolling for a rear, maybe the triple compound would be better there. Its one of the grippiest single ply tires I've tried, but doesn't clear snow or mud that well sometimes. Too light for running as a dh tire, IMO... 3C Minions have a good bit more traction anyway.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

yeah I have 3c minion dhfs on right now.


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

Yeah BC strick em on the AM but not the Jedi, I know ya like light weight and all but its all realitive some Minion UST STs and Wetscream's USTs ST and Swampthing USTs will be all over those Schwalbes like s h i tz to dog poo! :thumbsup:


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

trailadvent said:


> Yeah BC strick em on the AM but not the Jedi, I know ya like light weight and all but its all realitive some Minion UST STs and Wetscream's USTs ST and Swampthing USTs will be all over those Schwalbes like s h i tz to dog poo! :thumbsup:


Yeah thats not an option this season! Its schwalbe now, got off the kenda train.
Not that kendas are bad they rocked but I wanted change. The minions (3c) hook up but my back tire is missing lugs, some are craked and others are half there. (had them 6 months of which I rode 3 at most)


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> Yeah thats not an option this season! Its schwalbe now, got off the kenda train.
> Not that kendas are bad they rocked but I wanted change. The minions (3c) hook up but my back tire is missing lugs, some are craked and others are half there. (had them 6 months of which I rode 3 at most)


Ahh fair enough keep us posted how the UST MMs work out for ya :thumbsup:


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## steve47co1 (May 18, 2005)

*I have both*

I have a set of BB 2.4 UST's on my AM bike and a set Minion DHF 2.7 3C's on my DH bike - I like them both.

I have been running 2.5 UST Minion DHF's on my AM bike for some time, bu the weight was just too much although the tire was perfect in every way.

To the BB's.........good traction, big volume, round profile tire, but feel very hard compared to the Minion's - I hear knobs popping off of rocks or edges as I go over them; so much so that when I first put them on, I would stop to see if I had torn off a knob when I heard that sound. No torn knobs, good wear, good tire, after 2 months of riding them. Much lighter than the DH casign version of the Minion, too; at 980 grams vs. 1340 for the Minion, serious weight savings x 2. :thumbsup:


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

bullcrew said:


> Yeah thats not an option this season! Its schwalbe now, got off the kenda train.
> Not that kendas are bad they rocked but I wanted change. The minions (3c) hook up but my back tire is missing lugs, some are craked and others are half there. (had them 6 months of which I rode 3 at most)


If you're worried about wear, use a 60a in the rear. 3C are VERY fast wearing race tires, some of the side knobs are 40a. I have 3C f/r right now, but thats because I bought the pair on ebay... if I had to pay retail theres no way I'd pay for a 3C rear tire.... they are worth it on the front though.


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

muddy marys are damn sexy. i haven't had any real time on them yet because of stupid winter, but they make my balls tingle a little bit every time i look at them.


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

steve47co1 said:


> I have a set of BB 2.4 UST's on my AM bike and a set Minion DHF 2.7 3C's on my DH bike - I like them both.
> 
> I have been running 2.5 UST Minion DHF's on my AM bike for some time, bu the weight was just too much although the tire was perfect in every way.
> 
> To the BB's.........good traction, big volume, round profile tire, but feel very hard compared to the Minion's - I hear knobs popping off of rocks or edges as I go over them; so much so that when I first put them on, I would stop to see if I had torn off a knob when I heard that sound. No torn knobs, good wear, good tire, after 2 months of riding them. Much lighter than the DH casign version of the Minion, too; at 980 grams vs. 1340 for the Minion, serious weight savings x 2. :thumbsup:


Steve have you tried a Minion up front [weight rolling weight up front is negligible]

and a Big Betty or Ardent 2.4 in the rear this will give you best of both world top cornering fast get go up hill pedaling acceleration but still top cornering!

Worth a shot, Ive run this combo on my RFX since early days [ I tested Kenda's Schwalbes NN, BBs ] and never changed nothings been faster Ive not tested the 2.4 Ardents yet but it looks fast and feels light!

I won't give up the cornering ability of the Minion


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## steve47co1 (May 18, 2005)

trailadvent said:


> Steve have you tried a Minion up front [weight rolling weight up front is negligible]
> 
> and a Big Betty or Ardent 2.4 in the rear this will give you best of both world top cornering fast get go up hill pedaling acceleration but still top cornering!
> 
> ...


TA,

Interesting idea, Brad; I might do that, but I am reluctant to add any weight to my Slim Fast RFX and I know that by adding that Minion I am adding 1 pound instantly.

I do like those Minion's though.........


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

steve47co1 said:


> TA,
> 
> Interesting idea, Brad; I might do that, but I am reluctant to add any weight to my Slim Fast RFX and I know that by adding that Minion I am adding 1 pound instantly.
> 
> I do like those Minion's though.........


:lol:

You Weanie's

I guess a pain if ya running UST to try, why I don't bother with UST anymore too much hassle trying new things for the few hundred grams it adds up front the benefits are huge!

But let ya think on that one, acceleration and drag all come from the rear cornering comes from the front, anyways Good luck wit it:thumbsup:


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

I went triple compound usts and triple rears with gooey mm fronts


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## steve47co1 (May 18, 2005)

*Weanie?*



trailadvent said:


> :lol:
> 
> You Weanie's
> 
> ...


Hi my name is Steve and I am a weight weanie; not in recovery, and happy with it!


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

steve47co1 said:


> Hi my name is Steve and I am a weight weanie; not in recovery, and happy with it!


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

You get the twin thumbs!


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

*Update*



CharacterZero said:


> Lots of people choose the BB over the nevegal because it is similar - high volume, tall, lots of grip and supposedly a bit better rolling.
> I am waiting on the USTs.
> They are expensive though, and hard to get a hold of FWIW.


So far - 4 months on the BB UST up front. Huge tire. Confident, predictable, tough carcass that feels good down to 22psi. For most of my riding (AM/6" bike/DT5.1) I run it at 27psi. Running the triple compound.

This isn't for FR/DH riding, but I have really loved it for agressive AM and will run one rear when my enduro wears out.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

saturnine said:


> muddy marys are damn sexy. i haven't had any real time on them yet because of stupid winter, but they make my balls tingle a little bit every time i look at them.


That's just the nubs for her pleasure


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> ....
> I'm not real impressed with the Betty's grip, but really rolls fast as a rear tire. Not so good in wet conditions, but nice on hard pack, pretty light too.


I have run Racing Ralphs, Nobby Nics, Front Alberts. Currently tried the FA front / NN rear combo in my Reign. I love the schwalbes, I have never had a flat with them, but the all have the same problem, grip on the wet rocky/rooty trails.:madmax:

I am actually ditching my only used once NN 2.4, it is a liability in my trails when get, I havent decided yet if I should go for a FA rear specific or a BB TC SS.

As said schwalbes might be the best tires....but I don´t understand why are they so slippery on the wet...


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## Pslide (Jul 3, 2006)

cesalec said:


> I have run Racing Ralphs, Nobby Nics, Front Alberts. Currently tried the FA front / NN rear combo in my Reign. I love the schwalbes, I have never had a flat with them, but the all have the same problem, grip on the wet rocky/rooty trails.:madmax:
> 
> I am actually ditching my only used once NN 2.4, it is a liability in my trails when get, I havent decided yet if I should go for a FA rear specific or a BB TC SS.
> 
> As said schwalbes might be the best tires....but I don´t understand why are they so slippery on the wet...


I'd have to agree with your findings on the 2.4 NN. I have triple nano compound, which you'd think they'd optimized for grip and fast rolling, but they seem to have erred on the side of fast rolling and slow wearing and given up grip. The rubber is pretty hard and has a plasticy feel on the trail which is not overly confidence inspiring in the wet. Shame because the tire weight, volume, and tread pattern are absolutely spot on. I will keep them on because they still have some redeeming features, but not the holy grail I was hoping.

The Muddy Mary's on my DH bike on the other hand are outstanding...


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## sam1030 (Feb 9, 2006)

*Muddy Mary 2.5" GG UST Tires...*

I have been running Muddy Mary 2.5" GG USTs front and rear this season. These tires are large for thier size, about the same as the Michelin 2.8s that I have run in the past. I did trim all of the center & transition knobs down to about half height in the rear after one ride. The tread pattern is very tall and seams to be a bit slow rolling in the rear. I also sipped the center & transition knobs on the front so they would grip a little better on rocky/loose trails. I think that I would go for the 2.3s next time. I ride mostly rocky/loose/technical trails (Schweitzer, Mt Spokane, Silver Mountain, Caribou) and the 2.5s float around too much in the loose rock. I think the 2.3s will be a little more stable. Maybe a WW or the rear, would not have to trim the center knobs. I am also stoked to see what Michelin has for 2010. I have always had good results with their tires.


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

Like Pslide said Ceslac what makes Schwalbe go fast is what makes them also not grip on slipery surfaces roots rocks etc, in saying that the Ooey gooey compound in the Big Betty helps some, but why I love my Maxxis minions, Swampthings and Ardents they cover everything, my Schwalbes are gathering dust! I loves the RRs for XC or endurance but everyone has caught up now, Aspens probably as fast, Ardents are quicker than the NN and corner better! Nothing beats a Minion  

Try a Nobby Nic in the rear and a Big Betty OG compound up front, it will wear fast but no where as bad as in the rear, it should help, I ran that combo on my AM big and it was my fav combo for Schwalbes:thumbsup:


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## gop427 (Jan 16, 2006)

Best gravity tires I have ever used! Tires, aand pedals make or break a bikes setup to me. They track so beautifully, and I run them so low on pressure, low 20's without fear. I really like those Maxxis ADvantage, but they don't offer them in a DH casing. Our team had a maxxis deal last year, and this year we are with Schwalbe. I have used all the familiars, nevegals, BG's, High Rollers, Ardents, Earls, Wet Earls, Chunders,never used minions though. If these Schwalbes weren't around, I would keep running High Rollers. I run a MM, in front with a BB in rear. I have had ZERO flats with these this year! I ordered another set and got them a week ago. I ride the midatlantic in tghe Gravity East series, very rocky courses, and this year, very wet too. I think every race was in the rain or heavily affected by rain. My two cents.:thumbsup:


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## Mr Lahey (Sep 14, 2009)

I have ridden the free ride BB in a 2.4 triple compound and the MM in a 2.5 DH triple on my light duty dh bike. The bb was nothing short of frightening... terrible corning and braking on any surface I tried them on. Went through a variety of pressures and also tried flipping them around as I couldn't believe they would actually sell a tire that bad. The Mary feels substantially better and in my opinion rides pretty similar to a Stick-e Nevagal. What the MM lacks in braking it trades off for in grip on off camber sections. No issues with wear on the bb but the MM got pretty torn up in a days worth of riding (both lugs and sidewalls). Got a price that I couldn't turn down to try these tires but I will most likely be going back to a Kenda as they do it all for about half of the price and last a lot longer.


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

Mr Lahey said:


> I have ridden the free ride BB in a 2.4 triple compound and the MM in a 2.5 DH triple on my light duty dh bike. The bb was nothing short of frightening... terrible corning and braking on any surface I tried them on. Went through a variety of pressures and also tried flipping them around as I couldn't believe they would actually sell a tire that bad. The Mary feels substantially better and in my opinion rides pretty similar to a Stick-e Nevagal. What the MM lacks in braking it trades off for in grip on off camber sections. No issues with wear on the bb but the MM got pretty torn up in a days worth of riding (both lugs and sidewalls). Got a price that I couldn't turn down to try these tires but I will most likely be going back to a Kenda as they do it all for about half of the price and last a lot longer.


Yeah the BB

Well its really a lightweight AM tire at best not a DH tire even as a light DH tire I'd agree it dosen't cut it, but thats not its purpose!

However its also why I run Minions on my AM bike, no comparison, over half the price nearly twice the performance, light weight is not everything, being smart can overcome that, I switch between Larsen wire bead rear and Minion DHR rear both wire bead, kevlar bead side walls lack support for real hard charging for me and 6inchs above I just prefer a wire bead feels better the tire maintains its shape better for me!

Schwalbes for me here are just too way over priced for FR DH applications for performance, ok if ya getting them thrown at you, but when my prefered tir choice performs better in every situation for half that no contest, Kends'a for me also don't rank and Michy is as high as Schwalbe here, for no gain!

If XC or endurance though, its a tough one I'd still lean to the NNs and RRs the newer Maxxis versons maybe as good I dunno! But it amazes me people have taken this long to find these tires, I was rockin these back in late 06, I have all compounds, though have not ridden the muddy mary, looks a good tread for some conditons, not best for my tracks! Maxxis just wear better too!

Wicked Will possibly but the treads design looks like a similar patter, very similar to what Continetal did they transferred it through the range, where as Maxxis desing treads more specific to each use then if it works trickle it down into other area's e.g the highroller versatile in any range!

I do like Scwables though just in some area's, just not prefered choice though!


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

I don't have any experience with the Big Betty and Muddy Mary, but i do run Schwalbe Fat Alberts, and I have to say if there other tires are anything like these I am a dedicated customer now. The prices are very competetive and the performace is on par with my old Maxxis Minions. I am going to get a few more sets of Schwalbe's but a softer compound and some different tread.


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

I was running the complete Fat Albert TC 2.4 in my Giant Reign AllMountain/Enduro/trail/whateveriscallednow bike, I have to say I like it a lot  .

then I tried a Minion DHF 3C 2.5 in the front (maller than the 2.4 FAs), and so far no problems at all, but im not sure I am completely convinced with it. It is a great and durable tire (meaning no pinch flats or such), but the front FA felt faster, lighter, and made me more comfortable. OF course FAs TC are slippery when wet, in off cambers or humid roots. 

Thinking on mounting back the 2.4 F specific FA to compare it against the Minion once more (once the dry season arrives) right now with this wet weather I am considering on getting a Big Betty TC and a Muddy Mary GCC , just worried that the Muddy Mary 2.5 is so big i cannot properly run it in my bike. :skep:


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

well just pulled the plug on a Big Betty 2.4 Tc and BB2.4 GGC, well see how it feels...


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

You will like them great tires definently gg front and triple rear....


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## amrgb (May 7, 2007)

These Schwalbe tires don't last much on rocky terrain. I have only 100 miles on one BB Triple Nano as a rear tire, and virtually every knob has large chunks missing, and 2 of them are even cut clean. And, to top of the cake, I opened a 1/4 inch gash in the thread area of the carcass.

In contrast, Continental tires with Black Chili compound look new. Better grip too.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

amrgb said:


> These Schwalbe tires don't last much on rocky terrain. I have only 100 miles on one BB Triple Nano as a rear tire, and virtually every knob has large chunks missing, and 2 of them are even cut clean. And, to top of the cake, I opened a 1/4 inch gash in the thread area of the carcass.
> 
> In contrast, Continental tires with Black Chili compound look new. Better grip too.


Triples last as long as anything Ive tried to date with the exception of 60a maxxis...
I run almost exclusive guey glueys and yes they wear fast but the are REAL fast rolling and TONS of grip on anything Ive thrown at them.

As far as gashing the center that happens to any tire if its cased on a jagged rock, Ive done it to several tires from several manufacturers... I went through the center of a muddy mary 3 weeks ago and dented the center of the rim, It would have taken out any tire at that speed and line choice..

Missing lugs aside of the ST maxxis usually is brake checking too hard in rocks vs feathering or getting ontop of the pile...Not to say thats always the case but a majority of the time someones coming in and grabs a handfull of berake then you have the edge profile of our lugs slamming into rocks and taking the grunt of the force and this will occasionaly do damage to them... :thumbsup:


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## amrgb (May 7, 2007)

> As far as gashing the center that happens to any tire if its cased on a jagged rock...


If it were the case, I wouldn't expect anything different. However, when I found the gash I hadn't flatted for a long time. The tube (regular, not a DH one) was showing through the gash but it wasn't flat. But something did it. Bad luck or not, I'll never know.

The knobs I'm most concerned with are the side knobs, not the center ones. The latter I expect them to wear relatively fast on that terrain. But the side knobs are all falling apart. That can't be from braking, since I run 40psi to avoid flats. It has to be from the knobs slipping the rocks at speed. If I hadn't experience with other tires (Conti MK and Nevegals in the rear, and Conti RQ in the front) I would discount as normal. But it isn't. Those tires have coped much better with that track.

I don't want to rain in the parade or troll. Schwalbe tires have their virtues, but they are not suited for rocky trails. I knew that, from reading in the forum, when I bought them, but discounted as "it can't be that bad". In my case it was that bad. I'm just leaving my experience with them.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

amrgb said:


> If it were the case, I wouldn't expect anything different. However, when I found the gash I hadn't flatted for a long time. The tube (regular, not a DH one) was showing through the gash but it wasn't flat. But something did it. Bad luck or not, I'll never know.
> 
> The knobs I'm most concerned with are the side knobs, not the center ones. The latter I expect them to wear relatively fast on that terrain. But the side knobs are all falling apart. That can't be from braking, *since I run 40psi to avoid flats. It has to be from the knobs slipping the rocks at speed*. If I hadn't experience with other tires (Conti MK and Nevegals in the rear, and Conti RQ in the front) I would discount as normal. But it isn't. Those tires have coped much better with that track.
> 
> I don't want to rain in the parade or troll. Schwalbe tires have their virtues, but they are not suited for rocky trails. I knew that, from reading in the forum, when I bought them, but discounted as "it can't be that bad". In my case it was that bad. I'm just leaving my experience with them.


First Ill agrea that BB triples can be intresting on rocks (as a rear tire) Ill agrea with you on that!

That would happen to almost any tire that hits a jagged rock when braking its the stopped tire with resistance hitting a sharp object.......

*Big Bettys have a weird roll off stuff on the side lugs, fine a rolled curb and ride it along the angle the back under weight will try and roll off... Dont know why but the triple BB does that. Not a good rock tire unless its a GG then it wears fast but grabs...*

Nevegals have the worst case of void when cornering that Ive felt even modified they have a slipping point then grab again, Ive blown up DH casings as well as the sidewalls have gashed several times Id be inclined to say those arent proper rock tires.. 

Ive run the Schwalbe line from Tunnel to Bootleg and theres a couple of rocks on those if I remember correctly as well as NW to Socal and tons of places in between schweitzer (eats tires, rims, pedals, and derailurres.), brundige etc.. and had the best luck Ive had on any line up...

I tend to think the Big bettys roll and tire sawing is part of the issue and yes the triple I could see not working real well in that application. Go out and turn hard in a parkinglot and listen to the buzz noixe it makes. LOL its ODD...

I run Dirty Dans when its nasty and I run Muddy MArys almost exclusively in the GG compound occasionaly a triple rear MM for pedaling and grnular loose over hard courses or trails..

LOVE the dirty dans if its nasty, that tire is ridiculous as far as grip...
This trail takes off behind the 5k marker and guard rail goes down REAL FAST even dry forget about stopping.. Then rocks, mud, creeks etc... Best tire I have ran in the nasty...


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

bullcrew, is that you in the picture? I believe I read that article somewhere online yesterday.

By the way, in which conditions do you run your MMs mostly on?

Right now im located in Mexico City, and I ride in the "Ajusco" 
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajusco ) when it hasnt rained in a while, the dirt there is a bit like hard packed sandy clay, some times extremely dusty and extremely annoying sicne you cannot really breath freely from all the irritating dust, in those conditions the FA/FA or Minion DHF/FA combos, are ok, they grip nicely, although the FA over off-cambers at high speed is a bit slippery. But when it rains and here it rains often, the dirt gets extremely compacted, extremely hardpacked and slippery, (those are also the ideal conditions to ride there, no dust flying around, no heat, and no sun , which at this height it does matter ).

I ordered yesterday a set of BBs, in both compounds, but as long as I ride here, I believe the GGC will be the backup front tire for wet/humid cloudy days, I believe on the dry it wont be necessary. Ill give the TC a try as a front tire, mantaining the FA rear and well se how it feels, and the maybe next as a rear tire with either the FA or the Minion in Front.:skep: :idea:

However my experience with Schwalbe began in the Austrian Alps, where the ground goes from tamed fire road to to rooty descents, to loose humid dirt, and the weather from humid hot sunny to completely soaked and humid cloudy. my first set, was a NN front and a RR rear in my hardtail, the RR was probably the reason I felt inlove with Schalbe, fast rolling, grippy (to its intended extent) and confident, the NN was great until I rode after a rain and slipped everywhere where there were roots and rocks.

The stock set on my Giant Reign was the Nevegals 2.3 stick-e and boy they ripped and made me confident on the Alps, but every single time I came back "home" both tubes were pinched, at the 10th time I completely ditched them. That also happened with the Nevs in the Semidesertic Region of North Mexico (imagine Arizona or New Mexico), were babygoats, and thorns of all sizes and shapes were a nightmare for the nevegals:nono: :nono: :nono: , not to mention they felt extremely heavy in that environment. (is not the same riding 20km rounds in the woods, as 20km under the extreme sun no-tree around whatsoever trails of Chihuahua, Mexico, even in the coldest of the winter:madmax: ).

Maybe a 2.4 RR with Snake Skin and TC (Evo as they call it in europe) for the rear on dry weather could work  . After all I am only doing AM.

My future Giant Faith will of course have DH tires... :thumbsup:

:skep: maybe I should start a blog about such things, I have recently discovered, I am definitely an MTB Shop/Testaholic...:madman:


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

cesalec said:


> bullcrew, is that you in the picture? I believe I read that article somewhere online yesterday.
> 
> By the way, in which conditions do you run your MMs mostly on?
> 
> ...


I ride at Ajusco and I run the Muddy Mary GG front and Big Betty Triple at the back. Best tire combo for Ajusco definitely...

Another less resistance combo is Muddy Mary front and Fat Albert rear.


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

do you run the GCC all the time?
doesnt it feel to heavy? what bike do you ride?


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

cesalec said:


> bullcrew, is that you in the picture? I believe I read that article somewhere online yesterday.
> 
> By the way, in which conditions do you run your MMs mostly on?
> 
> ...


No thats Mike Im 235 lbs 6'3" I brought Mike with me up there...

Yeah the Schwalbes kick butt I run Guey Glueys front and rear and If Im riding more sand paper rocks I run triple compound for longevity and if its all out then its GG front and rear it hooks up incredible and rolls fast....

If its wet run guey gluey they hook up in snot... The pic was Dirty Dans GG and they grabbed rocks etc under the snow and the mud halfway down 2k feet down the chutes and then creek crossings and the rock chutes were wet with some snow and mud...

Guey Gluey is amazing hands down... Rolls fast, wears fast and hooks up incredible... Worth it IMO and If a littel life is needed run triple rear GG front and you will get a substantial life out of them...


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

cesalec said:


> do you run the GCC all the time?
> doesnt it feel to heavy? what bike do you ride?


Duncon Tosa Inu.

Yes I run that combo all the time. I climb to Cardos almost every time. FA on the back is much better for climbing, but the MM and BB combo is kickass on the way down.


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## HTFR (Jan 11, 2007)

Got a 2.4 BB Triple Nano just to try out. Slapped it on the front, meh, really need a guey gluey. I havent put it on the back yet but it should be OK. Great casing, very easy to drift, light as hell, and rolls fast. The triple compound is not a race tire. I really want to try a GG compound.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

HTFR said:


> Got a 2.4 BB Triple Nano just to try out. Slapped it on the front, meh, really need a guey gluey. I havent put it on the back yet but it should be OK. Great casing, very easy to drift, light as hell, and rolls fast. The triple compound is not a race tire. I really want to try a GG compound.


It works good as a rear but the guey gluey works a lot better. I prefer muddy Marys gg front and rear. 
I have 3 triple compounds of all 18 tires I have so 15 are guey. Gluey...


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Today the MM and BB combo was sweeter than ever, awesome grip


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## Chuckie (Dec 26, 2006)

anyone run a Muddy Mary 2.35 GG front and a BB 2.4 rear? is there a huge size diff between the 2?

how do these tyres compare to minions f and High roller rear in dry loose conditions (Australia)? similar I guess to your so cal cond

or would I be better off with a Wicked Will out back?


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I've been running Muddy Mary's up front for a few months now. I'm doing 2.35 UST's which are the multi-compound. They are really great tires. I only wish they sold the soft compound for up front use. Out back I'm running Prowler MX 2.3 super track compound. They roll real fast but the knobs are just a little too short to hook up on looser stuff like where there's a little gravel or something or when you are climbing up on a gravel road.

My dream tire would be the new Weirwolf UST if they had them in 2.5. I like the 2.3's but they run a little small.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Chuckie said:


> anyone run a Muddy Mary 2.35 GG front and a BB 2.4 rear? is there a huge size diff between the 2?
> 
> how do these tyres compare to minions f and High roller rear in dry loose conditions (Australia)? similar I guess to your so cal cond
> 
> or would I be better off with a Wicked Will out back?


Wicked will is fast but best left on HARD PACK. Big Betty 2.4 and a muddy Mary 2.35 are almost spot on and works perfect together. I ran that and loved it now I'm 2.5 front for everything...


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## Chuckie (Dec 26, 2006)

Thanks Bullcrew, is there a noticable size difference between the 2.35 MM & 2.4 BB?

I am keen on the Schwalbe for the weight savings as well, hopefully be over 100g lighter per tire


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Chuckie said:


> Thanks Bullcrew, is there a noticable size difference between the 2.35 MM & 2.4 BB?
> 
> I am keen on the Schwalbe for the weight savings as well, hopefully be over 100g lighter per tire


Run it I did the sizes are almost identical.. they look identical and its a rocking set up..


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## Chuckie (Dec 26, 2006)

bullcrew said:


> Wicked will is fast but best left on HARD PACK. Big Betty 2.4 and a muddy Mary 2.35 are almost spot on and works perfect together. I ran that and loved it now I'm 2.5 front for everything...


Bullcrew would you recommend a BB rear in Gooey Glooey as well, or will it be hard work in comparison to my current High roller?

I am aware of the faster wearing, but how much faster wearing are we talking about?

so there is over 200g weight savings going to a 2.35MM front/ 2.4 BB rear from 2.5 Minion DHF(1300g)/ 2.5 high roller (1280g)? would you agree?

as said another thread i am loving the new Nobby Nic's on my AM bike, I think Im gonna be a schwalbe convert as these puppies are light too


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Chuckie said:


> Bullcrew would you recommend a BB rear in Gooey Glooey as well, or will it be hard work in comparison to my current High roller?
> 
> I am aware of the faster wearing, but how much faster wearing are we talking about?
> 
> ...


Yeah the weight savings is significant... the GG wears fast compared to a triple and depending on what and where you ride will dictate which. The true has a odd side lug noise and roll in off camber stuff as where the GG doesn't but the triple lasts a long time and overall is a good tire.. I personally have 15 GGs and 3 triples in my arsenal if that tells you anything. I run triples on mid pack and loose over hard but for hard, rocks and roots wet etc... guey. Gluey. All the way.


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

gticlay said:


> I've been running Muddy Mary's up front for a few months now. I'm doing 2.35 UST's which are the multi-compound. They are really great tires. I only wish they sold the soft compound for up front use. Out back I'm running Prowler MX 2.3 super track compound. They roll real fast but the knobs are just a little too short to hook up on looser stuff like where there's a little gravel or something or when you are climbing up on a gravel road.
> 
> My dream tire would be the new Weirwolf UST if they had them in 2.5. I like the 2.3's but they run a little small.


I heard the prowler works great as a rear, how is the true size? and for which conditions is best?


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

tacubaya said:


> Today the MM and BB combo was sweeter than ever, awesome grip


what were the conditions "today"??

I think Ive seen you around, while I was wondering what the hell your bike was :skep: (considering I am quite weel informed about brands and such).


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

cesalec said:


> what were the conditions "today"??
> 
> I think Ive seen you around, while I was wondering what the hell your bike was :skep: (considering I am quite weel informed about brands and such).


Being a week old post, my guess is was something like *tacky as hell*.   

Hey Celasec, are you riding this weekend? maybe you can join us for a Cardos loop. We´ve built a few features for a flowy and interesting ride. Send me PM if you´re interested.


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## cowpatchman6 (Jun 27, 2009)

cesalec said:


> I heard the prowler works great as a rear, how is the true size? and for which conditions is best?


Prowler works best with soft loamy soil but sucks on clayey mud, it just gets overwhelmed and in no time you've got slicks. I had the 2.5 Prowler for the rear and a MM upfront when I ran my first DH race. It was a disaster, the rear end always wanted to go first. The MM held her ground though. As to size, I think the Prowler measures up to what it claims to be in terms of size. The 2.5 MM though is a different story, they size up like they were 2.8's. Right now I've got the MM upfront and 2.8 Bontrager Big Earl at the rear, and I just love the grip.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

cowpatchman6 said:


> Prowler works best with soft loamy soil but sucks on clayey mud, it just gets overwhelmed and in no time you've got slicks. I had the 2.5 Prowler for the rear and a MM upfront when I ran my first DH race. I was a disaster, the rear end always wanted to go first. The MM held her ground though. As to size, I think the Prowler measures up to what it claims to be in terms of size. The 2.5 MM though is a different story, they size up like they were 2.8's. Right now I've got the MM upfront and 2.8 Bontrager Big Earl at the rear, and I just love the grip.


Muddy mary front and erar, Guey Gluey front and triple rear is a great combo as well... Harder compound on rear has less resistance, not like theres alot to begin with LOL and it wears a lot longer so for park and riding this is a great set up too...

I run GG MM front and rear 2.5s and use ruts and water trenches for cornering and tracking n and out at speed... line swapping in and out of em as needed and center etc... Friends call Troy and I's line choices intresting, still the first ones down and by trusting the tires it opens up a whole new arena of line choices...

Plus it helps curb the water rut fear if you can stick to them in and out at speed, :thumbsup:


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

cesalec said:


> I heard the prowler works great as a rear, how is the true size? and for which conditions is best?


I've been running the Prowler MX 2.3 UST since the rainy season (I'm north of Seattle, south of Northshore/BC). It's got a pretty big casing for a 2.3 and lower knobs. The compound is good for mud, but the knobs are a little too short when the mud gets deeper. They really shine on worn in trails and when it gets dry. I ran it at Whistler last week and it was like rubber on sandpaper - mega traction and very fast rolling and good wear. Front was the MM which wore a little too quickly for 1 day of riding!


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

gticlay said:


> Front was the MM which wore a little too quickly for 1 day of riding!


GG wear fast but grab amazing, Id compare these to a reallf fast rolling slow reazay that could grab a handfull of vertical and go up it...
I wore through a rear in 4 days but it was Socal and it was 9 hours a day of shuttling and riding on what is more sandpaper rocks, kitty litter pumice than anywhere else I ride in the NW or other... Its probably less than a 1/3rd tread and Id do it again as a matter of fact I already replace the rear with another GG and ready to do it again... While others are drifting and braking on exposed edges its tracking and my drift point is substantially further than theres so I carry alot more speed through stuff...

Guey Gluey; Wears quick BUT tracks amazing, rolls amazing and is a really really fantastic race tire...


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

bullcrew said:


> GG wear fast but grab amazing, Id compare these to a reallf fast rolling slow reazay that could grab a handfull of vertical and go up it...
> I wore through a rear in 4 days but it was Socal and it was 9 hours a day of shuttling and riding on what is more sandpaper rocks, kitty litter pumice than anywhere else I ride in the NW or other... Its probably less than a 1/3rd tread and Id do it again as a matter of fact I already replace the rear with another GG and ready to do it again... While others are drifting and braking on exposed edges its tracking and my drift point is substantially further than theres so I carry alot more speed through stuff...
> 
> Guey Gluey; Wears quick BUT tracks amazing, rolls amazing and is a really really fantastic race tire...


I was running a UST tire so I'd guess that it's the non GG compound correct? The side knobs are what wore extra and I think they use GG compound there and something a little firmer in the middle on the UST.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

gticlay said:


> I was running a UST tire so I'd guess that it's the non GG compound correct? The side knobs are what wore extra and I think they use GG compound there and something a little firmer in the middle on the UST.


They do the UST version is a triple hard center soft outer and the outer will wear a bit down faster.

I know a few people who have had issues with lugs and then again I know that alot of it is running SUPER hi psi and grabing a handful of brakes in rocks... When just railing and getting ontop should be the style but thats why we are all different.. I dont brake check rocks unless its off a blind drop to corner or a tree is in my way after a corner/drop to rock chute (ie big bear LOL).


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## stunzeed (Mar 17, 2007)

I am considering trying the 2.35 MM on my trail bike for AM type riding..im sick of the unpredictable Maxxis Ardents..hoping the MM's are more predictable in corners and have better traction


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

bullcrew said:


> They do the UST version is a triple hard center soft outer and the outer will wear a bit down faster.
> 
> I know a few people who have had issues with lugs and then again I know that alot of it is running SUPER hi psi and grabing a handful of brakes in rocks... When just railing and getting ontop should be the style but thats why we are all different.. I dont brake check rocks unless its off a blind drop to corner or a tree is in my way after a corner/drop to rock chute (ie big bear LOL).


Naw, all the knobs are there still


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

gticlay said:


> Naw, all the knobs are there still


WORD.

Having run a BB UST up front for well over a year, and the same compound FA rear, I have never ever ripped off a knob. I know the front won't loose them as often, but I have lost both front and rear on the Kenda tires so often that I finally abandoned them altogether. Austin is known for being bit tough on tires with the limestone.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

CharacterZero said:


> WORD.
> 
> Having run a BB UST up front for well over a year, and the same compound FA rear, I have never ever ripped off a knob. I know the front won't loose them as often, but I have lost both front and rear on the Kenda tires so often that I finally abandoned them altogether. Austin is known for being bit tough on tires with the limestone.


Thats good to hear, LOL I have 2 aquaintances that complained about how nobs ripped off on a couple and since asking about PSI and braking into rocks I havent heard back from 1 and the other laughed and fessed up to it.... Its not just these theres alot of tires that will get hammered bad with Hi PSI and braking into rocks and slabs...

My buddy Bobby rocked Big Bettys all the time in idyl wild and all over europe and germany and NEVER had issues with them... Guaranteed hes harder on tires than 95% and faster than most as well.... I ride with Bobby alot and the guy is ridiculous....
Hes why I tried Schwalbes... Glad I did too... Pic is Bobby...


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Anyone need a GGC BB DH? Chad sent me one by mistake - I need the low weight version. $65 shipped,let me know?!

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Gman086 said:


> Anyone need a GGC BB DH? Chad sent me one by mistake - I need the low weight version. $65 shipped,let me know?!
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


Post it on RM classifieds I could have sold a few of those easily.....


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Good idea. Will the standard version hold up for FR use as a front run ghetto tubeless? I really don't want to add another pound of rolling weight to my bike if I don't have to as I use it for trail use sometimes too.

Thanks,

G


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Gman086 said:


> Good idea. Will the standard version hold up for FR use as a front run ghetto tubeless? I really don't want to add another pound of rolling weight to my bike if I don't have to as I use it for trail use sometimes too.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> G


YES!!! and very well too...

Ive been rocking 2.5 freeride versions tubeless ghetto for the better part of 2 years now and the only issue I had was I rolled a rear 2.35 fr on a drop to g-out to wall ride and it rolled off in the g-out so the wall ride was intresting LMAO what a rush...

So at my weight I stopped using the 2.35s as they are a little thin in the sidewalls as is any single ply in a 2.35 so its no mystery or issue.. I went to 2.5s in the rear and have nailed the same run SEVERAL times harder and worse with no issues at all...

I took a rock right through the tread of the rear and dented the inner center low point on my rim so any tire would have gashed again no issues..

If my rears can hold up a 235 guy that slamms stuff head on as a rear then a front is not a issue at all....

In short I run ghetto tubeless FR front and rear 2.5 and love it......


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Kewl, that was the MM tho right? It's comparable to a BB for the sidewall strength?

Also I have 2.5 Ramped Bites on my M3 and the rear is almost gone (about a weekends worth of tread left at the park). Should I just replace the rear with the BB DH for park riding? The BB DH isn't UST but does have wire beads so I'm guessing no probs with running tubeless on the 823's on that bike?


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Gman086 said:


> Kewl, that was the MM tho right? It's comparable to a BB for the sidewall strength?
> 
> Also I have 2.5 Ramped Bites on my M3 and the rear is almost gone (about a weekends worth of tread left at the park). Should I just replace the rear with the BB DH for park riding? The BB DH isn't UST but does have wire beads so I'm guessing no probs with running tubeless on the 823's on that bike?


1st no issues with running any of the schwalbe tires freeride or dh casings tubeless they work awesome throw a smidge of stans in there and your golden. (Id throw stans in there anywase Ive gashed tires and its saved me from pushing )

2nd MM and BB are the same for sidewall thickness you wont be compromising between the 2 if your lighter you can rock a 2.35 if your a bit more go 2.5 (freeride only) If your running DH casings you can run a 2.35 even as big as I am and have no issues...

If it were me and I was riding that terrain Id opt for BB triple rear and a MM guey gluey front and thats where Id stay... Killer combo I like it alot I run Muddy Marys front and rear in Guey gluey adn roast em pretty regular but I always push it and a 1 bike kind of guy alwatys afraid Ill bring the wrong equiptment to a run and miss out so I roll race ready at all times...


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

How does the MM compare to the Minion DHF? I'm undecided between a GGC MM in a 2.35 and the new 3C Minion 2.5 DHF single ply for my front tire. The both weigh about the same 840-850 grams I'm told? I'd find it hard to believe anything can outcorner a DHF but the MM looks like it could do better when the going gets wet?

Thanks!

G


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

The mm has been better than the dhf in every situation and faster on harder pack as well.


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## bhigdon101 (Apr 24, 2010)

i too have been thinking about running the Minion 2.5 DHF single ply on front with my rocket ron rear, but after reading about the muddy mary im not sure,

how does the bb compare to the rocket ron, 

i dont ride downhill, just hardcore all mountain,but i just found a downhill park about 45 mins from me and i want to go check it out so i will be doing some downhill for the first time....


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Not sure on the RR, the nobby nic my wife had on her XC bike was pretty tough I beat the crap outa it and wont admit it to her... 

It hooked up really well but if I were running anysort of AM/FR/DH and weight was a concern the 2.35 MM freeride if your lighter if heavier run a 2.5 (thicker sidewalls dont roll under big guys at all)

The big bettys are great if your mainly a AM guy then it will fit the bill perfectly for trail use, stunts, rocks, climbing and trail use its a really well suited tire for that... 
I like em as a rear for aggressive fr and DH but prefer a MM front... *If/When I build an AM bike it will be BB front and rear* and if its nasty Ill slap a MM front but it will be BB predominentley...


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> Not sure on the RR, the nobby nic my wife had on her XC bike was pretty tough I beat the crap outa it and wont admit it to her...
> 
> It hooked up really well but if I were running anysort of AM/FR/DH and weight was a concern the 2.35 MM freeride if your lighter if heavier run a 2.5 (thicker sidewalls dont roll under big guys at all)
> 
> ...


So BB is more AM and rolls better than a MM? What would you recommend for me - I go 170 lbs and ride predominantly FR with this bike (IH 6 Point) along with occasional AM/Trail use; no high speed DH - have my M3 for that so I'm guessing I'll be fine on the lighter versions? Usual areas are Post Canyon and Black Rock with a lot of stunts and woodwork along with roots. We don't have a lot of rocks here but it can get plenty wet early and late season. I definitely want an easy rolling tire. Thanks BC!

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Gman086 said:


> So BB is more AM and rolls better than a MM? What would you recommend for me - I go 170 lbs and ride predominantly FR with this bike (IH 6 Point) along with occasional AM/Trail use; no high speed DH - have my M3 for that so I'm guessing I'll be fine on the lighter versions? Usual areas are Post Canyon and Black Rock with a lot of stunts and woodwork along with roots. We don't have a lot of rocks here but it can get plenty wet early and late season. I definitely want an easy rolling tire. Thanks BC!
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


If your riding in semi muck as well then Id suggest a Muddy mary front no questions asked the rear can be a preferance thing the BB rolls a little better but the MM is still faster than a DHF minion so its still a bonus...

So Id start with a MM front guey gluey and a triple rear BB if theres more roots and rocks than Id opt for a GG BB rear as it will grab better but wear faster.
If cost is an issue and grip is a necessity than go MM front rear GG and buy 3 tires the back wears first then throw the front on the rear and replace the front...


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

bullcrew said:


> T
> Hes why I tried Schwalbes... Glad I did too... Pic is Bobby...


That pretty much looks like somewhere in Bayern, isn it?


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

cesalec said:


> That pretty much looks like somewhere in Bayern, isn it?


I think your right on that he was with canyon at the time. Alot of german stuff now he's with rosa.


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

I received my BBs 2.4 on friday, and I tried to mount them on Saturday so I could test them on sunday. 

These are the easiest mounting tires I ever had! I mounted the GGC on the front of my 2008 Reign 0. But big shock, the BB 2.4 Didnt fit in the rear!!!! I had to mount the FA 2.4 back again. 

I decided to inflate the BB to 40 PSI at first, and it feel BIG , and in the trail it felt harsh and bouncy, and didnt track very well, as the Minion did. But then I decide to deinflate till 30psi (the minimun for the BB), and that was a different story , I was riding faster than ever, it grips =))) 

only thing was, in the humed loomy ground it got clogged and felt a bit heavy and slow. but once bombing down.... damn I like this tire.... Now I considering gettin a 2.3 for the rear...


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

I used to live in Innsbruck =)


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

cesalec said:


> I used to live in Innsbruck =)


sorry, wrong button, and off topic, but I seem not to be able to delete this post..


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## bhigdon101 (Apr 24, 2010)

where can i get the muddy mary 2.5 gg freeride and the nobby nic 2.4 skin at the same store... for a good deal....


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Starbike


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

cesalec said:


> I received my BBs 2.4 on friday, and I tried to mount them on Saturday so I could test them on sunday.
> 
> These are the easiest mounting tires I ever had! I mounted the GGC on the front of my 2008 Reign 0. But big shock, the BB 2.4 Didnt fit in the rear!!!! I had to mount the FA 2.4 back again.
> 
> ...


I run the BB 2.4 at 20-22 psi on the rear and I do not pinch flat.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

bhigdon101 said:


> where can i get the muddy mary 2.5 gg freeride and the nobby nic 2.4 skin at the same store... for a good deal....


Velomech.net (alan) or kerry bikebling.com


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> I run the BB 2.4 at 20-22 psi on the rear and I do not pinch flat.


The UST version or standard? I got the UST version for the rear as I was afraid the sidewalls wouldn't hold up to FR use but would certainly like to lose the extra half pound of rolling mass if I don't need it since I need to pedal uphill with this thing too!

Thanks,

G


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## bhigdon101 (Apr 24, 2010)

bullcrew said:


> It hooked up really well but if I were running anysort of AM/FR/DH and weight was a concern the 2.35 MM freeride if your lighter if heavier run a 2.5 (thicker sidewalls dont roll under big guys at all)
> 
> The big bettys are great if your mainly a AM guy then it will fit the bill perfectly for trail use, stunts, rocks, climbing and trail use its a really well suited tire for that...
> I like em as a rear for aggressive fr and DH but prefer a MM front... *If/When I build an AM bike it will be BB front and rear* and if its nasty Ill slap a MM front but it will be BB predominentley...


i got to order some tires this weekend, so i need a few answers before i order..

i weigh 220 so i need a 2.5 mm so it dont roll under me right?
how about the bb, it comes in 2.4 freeride,skin,ggc,will it roll under me?
thinking of going mm with gg up front and the bb gg in the rear...


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## hafnz (Aug 22, 2007)

bhigdon101 said:


> i got to order some tires this weekend, so i need a few answers before i order..
> 
> i weigh 220 so i need a 2.5 mm so it dont roll under me right?
> how about the bb, it comes in 2.4 freeride,skin,ggc,will it roll under me?
> thinking of going mm with gg up front and the bb gg in the rear...


Can't comment on the weight as I'm quite light (140-ish), but the 2.5 Muddy Mary in the front with the 2.4 Big Betty in the back is what I've been using for almost a year now and I couldn't be happier. It was a nice confidence boost, specially in the wet/mud. (I was previously using a 2.4 Fat Albert in the front with said 2.4 Big Betty in the back, the Fat Albert didn't feel quite confidence inspiring where I ride)

I thought about swapping them for the Wicked Will's for the summer but I got lazy and I'm still using that combo with success.

Only word of advice is that if you're riding in the dry now, the Triple Compound in the back works great and doesn't wear out as fast as the Gooey Gluey (my MM is GG and the BB is 3C). The Muddy Mary (which is in the front) is starting to show some deterioration while the Big Betty still looks fairly new. I'm assuming that if I used Gooey Gluey in the back it would have long gone for now.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Gman086 said:


> The UST version or standard? I got the UST version for the rear as I was afraid the sidewalls wouldn't hold up to FR use but would certainly like to lose the extra half pound of rolling mass if I don't need it since I need to pedal uphill with this thing too!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> G


Standard Freeride version. It holds up pretty well at 22+ psi with Schwalbe/Continental tubes although last weekend a sharp stick went through the top of the tire and made a 1cm hole... but I think it would have happened in almost any tire casing.


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## Chuckie (Dec 26, 2006)

sorry about the X-post but thought I amy get more of an informed answer in this thread

has anyone by any chance got a pic of a 2.35 MM next to a 2.5 Minion DHF?

I think 2.5 MM would be too big for Australian conditions (most ppl run a 2.5 Minion DHF in Oz)

By the way any "actual" weights of 2010

MM GG 2.5 & 2.35? DH Casing
Big Betty 2.4 TC? DH Casing

Thanks


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

Chuckie said:


> sorry about the X-post but thought I amy get more of an informed answer in this thread
> 
> has anyone by any chance got a pic of a 2.35 MM next to a 2.5 Minion DHF?
> 
> ...


The 2.5 Minion DHF is a bit smaller than the 2.4 Front Alberts for example, the 2.4 BB is even bigger than the Alberts, probably the MM will be aroudn the size of the big betty.


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## bhigdon101 (Apr 24, 2010)

just rode for the first time with the big betty's gg front and rear, i know, it will wear fast but it holds like i want....

these are the best tires i have tryed so far but i have not tryed that many.... nevegals,rocket ron, excavator...

this might sound funny but they smooth out the ride some too, takes the vibration out... they hold so well i can lean it over in the corners and let her eat!!!!!!!!

it rolls a lot better than the nevegals and excavator and smoother too,and it rolls just as good as the rocket ron and the weight in not noticeable, it is the gg compound too front and rear.... this is my go to tire now....


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

The BB brakes incredibly well and is an excellent rear tyre. If you like it up front then you will love the MM.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

juan pablo said:


> The BB brakes incredibly well and is an excellent rear tyre. If you like it up front then you will love the MM.


Maybe in the front but as a rear tire it breaks loose way too early and has tons of drag too; can't stand my BB as a rear. Anyone wanna trade for a 2.35 MM (pref trip nano) for a BB? I have a UST BB (trip nano) and a DH BB (GGC) that need a home.

Have FUN!

G


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

Have you tried a wicked will yet? My MM is a little worn and I am thinking of putting on the rear with a Dirty Dan for crap conditions. I want to try a WW on the rear with a MM up frotn for hard to intermediate riding. Just waiting for CRC to get MM back in stock.


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## Chuckie (Dec 26, 2006)

interesting enough that combo MM f/ WW r comes stock on the new Scott Gamblers


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## Mr. Blonde (May 18, 2008)

I'm rocking Fat Alberts (2.4/2.25) on my 140mm bike. The Evo Snakeskin is the most solid single ply I've ever seen. The Triple Nano compound is surprisingly grippy for how hard it appears to be. The bead is INSANELY tight. I can mount any other tire out there on any rim with just my hands. I can't come close to getting these on without hefty tire irons. They are super heavy duty but they are so tight I'm concerned about being able to fix it on the trail if I get a flat miles into the backcountry. I've got a stout rimstrip and a ton of Stans so I think I'm solid. There's definitely a little weight penalty the way I have it setup. It's about as heavy as a single ply setup gets but I LOVE em.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

juan pablo said:


> Have you tried a wicked will yet? My MM is a little worn and I am thinking of putting on the rear with a Dirty Dan for crap conditions. I want to try a WW on the rear with a MM up frotn for hard to intermediate riding. Just waiting for CRC to get MM back in stock.


Have not but that may just be the ticket I'm after as I want a fast rolling rear! Thanks for that!

G


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## Chuckie (Dec 26, 2006)

just picked up a DH MM 2.35 & bb 2.4

the 2.35MM weighed 1350g!!!According to downhilltires.com, they advertise the 2.35 MM as 1190g!! what gives? 

I weighed the BB and it was bang on 1180g

just kinda surprised the advertised weight is so far off


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## dusttrails (May 29, 2006)

*MMs - Pretty much standard Alp FR tyre*

My group rides gnarly alp trails - pretty much exclusive 2.5 fold MM - goey front - triple back (wear down at the same rate)

I have them on spank stiffy 40mm rims... run 1.2bar (17.5) psi front 1.3 bar rear.... with diy tubless and stans - a little more in parks...

1 leak in 2 years heavy use (also bent the rim) - but still sealed itself up after a while....

super alround grip

Believe next year they will have more tubless features...sealing rim band or something...


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Chuckie said:


> just picked up a DH MM 2.35 & bb 2.4
> 
> the 2.35MM weighed 1350g!!!According to downhilltires.com, they advertise the 2.35 MM as 1190g!! what gives?
> 
> ...


Sure its not a 2.5 that's a 2.5 weight and i know the 2.35s have been sold out several places for a long while....
Even if that's the weight they still [email protected] $$. Im running 2.5 dhs right now coming off single plys. Wow there's a jump in weight...


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## Chuckie (Dec 26, 2006)

no def 2.35 GG, I made sure, as originally the shop had a 2.5 to give me and we weighed it, it was around 1360g, which was heavier than what I wanted, so I asked him to get in a 2.35 for me, whch he did
Just before I fitted it I decided to weigh it and was very surprised that it was around 1350g and this was with a proper bike scale
but I guess this seems consistent with post #16 in this thread

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=637934&highlight=Muddy+mary+weight

why is Schwalbe so far off in whats advertised?

Could it be possible that this is old stock from the distributor?

what weight are you getting Bullcrew from a 2.35 MM GG?

By the way took these tyres (MM f/ BB r)out on the weekend!! amazing!!


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Chuckie said:


> what weight are you getting Bullcrew from a 2.35 MM GG?
> 
> By the way took these tyres (MM f/ BB r)out on the weekend!! amazing!!


I get around 1400 - 1500g on DH 2.5 and 1100-1250g is what the ones I had came in. GG is always a smidge heavier as well which I dont care, it makes up for it in hooking up and ripping it up.

Glad to hear they kicked @$$ for you I love em, I have Freeride on the hadley wheelset and DH casings on the I9s so I can swap as needed...All muddy marys though and all GG... I will probably throw a BB on for next months race.

Heres one I usually take and weigh them all and then put a middle of the road up in weight. Dont see any reason to put the lightest up just an average.


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## Chuckie (Dec 26, 2006)

well thats got me puzzled why this one weighs so much more? and same with the other guy that posted on the other thread I linked in above

was there a recent change at all with the Muddy mary's weight wise? coudl it be old stock?


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Chuckie said:


> well thats got me puzzled why this one weighs so much more? and same with the other guy that posted on the other thread I linked in above
> 
> was there a recent change at all with the Muddy mary's weight wise? coudl it be old stock?


Could be the batch run and I have a feeling that the weights are based on the triple which are a few grams lighter than GGs. 
I had a few around the 1300g mark and alot around the 1200g mark as well as a few under. I think its luck of the draw I had maxxis minion 2.35s come in at 1450g.... So all manufacturers all subject to the molds and density/duro.... Rubbers can be more mass with little to no size increas which is why they vary. I know the new stuff is coming in shortly and Ill have a post/review of it soon as well. I will weight various tires again and take a happy medium I will be sure to put the lightest as well as the heaviest in there that I get in...

It would be nice if this could be more controlled but there are several variables from batch to batch that effect it... I wish they all could be spot on it would make our bike builds easier...


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> Sure its not a 2.5 that's a 2.5 weight and i know the 2.35s have been sold out several places for a long while....
> Even if that's the weight they still [email protected] $$. Im running 2.5 dhs right now coming off single plys. Wow there's a jump in weight...


yeah, even the DH MM is only sposta be 1270g:
http://www.schwalbetires.com/muddy_mary


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

CharacterZero said:


> yeah, even the DH MM is only sposta be 1270g:
> http://www.schwalbetires.com/muddy_mary


Your right, the ones on my I9s right now are around 1400g 2.5 dh MM GG, Ive weighed them before and they are close to on alot I have had a crapload I usualy run lighter first adn then go through them as I care less if I gain a few ounces throughout the season ...


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## Chuckie (Dec 26, 2006)

ok then its strange that the 2.5GG was almost bang on then (and so was the BB), in hindsight I prob should of kept the 2.5 as the weight diff between the 2 was insignificant


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Chuckie said:


> ok then its strange that the 2.5GG was almost bang on then (and so was the BB), in hindsight I prob should of kept the 2.5 as the weight diff between the 2 was insignificant


Ehh Im sure the 2,35s were a fluke or a mid season batch, Ive had them under claimed weight on a few occasions. Either way a few extra Gs in my book is OK for the grip part of the reason I run hte 2.5s while alot of others sport 2.35s I like the girth and the grab everything and hold a line profile...:thumbsup:


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## dropadrop (Sep 20, 2005)

I weighed all my FR BB, MM and Fat Alberts, and all where within 10g of listed weights. It was a positive surprise after running Continental which where over 10% off.


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## bhigdon101 (Apr 24, 2010)

looked on schwalbe's website at the muddy mary's and seen they had some 2.5 ggc in the freeride single ply snakeskin but i cant find them anywhere for sale, just the dh ones, has anyone been able to find these?????

and if i cant find them how does the 2.3 mm ggc single ply work on front with a 2.4 bb ggc single ply on rear... what would be the size difference?

as of now im running the bb ggc front and rear and the rear is worn pretty good,so im going to buy a mm ggc for the front and put the bb on the rear for this winter months...


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

bhigdon101 said:


> looked on schwalbe's website at the muddy mary's and seen they had some 2.5 ggc in the freeride single ply snakeskin but i cant find them anywhere for sale, just the dh ones, has anyone been able to find these?????
> 
> and if i cant find them how does the 2.3 mm ggc single ply work on front with a 2.4 bb ggc single ply on rear... what would be the size difference?
> 
> as of now im running the bb ggc front and rear and the rear is worn pretty good,so im going to buy a mm ggc for the front and put the bb on the rear for this winter months...


Mm is a great tire front and rear. Bb rear and mm front is a pretty fast combo. Id try Bikebling.com for.the 2.5 fr mm gg I saw some there a week ago. They match up perfect with the 2.4 bb looks fine no real difference the tread of the mm makes it look bigger. 
If all else fails you can order them from schwalbe... I do believe kerry at Bikebling has stock there....


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## dropadrop (Sep 20, 2005)

I would try to source tires with the new trailstar or vertstar compounds if possible (actually I ordered a set of BB's with trailstar, should arrive any day). From what I gather the trailstar should be fairly close to GG in traction but roll better and react to cold less, vertstar should have more traction then GG.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

dropadrop said:


> I would try to source tires with the new trailstar or vertstar compounds if possible (actually I ordered a set of BB's with trailstar, should arrive any day). From what I gather the trailstar should be fairly close to GG in traction but roll better and react to cold less, vertstar should have more traction then GG.


Agreed if you can wait the new compounds are coming out in january if you can't then grab gg muddy marys ......


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

bhigdon101 said:


> how does the 2.3 mm ggc single ply work on front with a 2.4 bb ggc single ply on rear... what would be the size difference?


I run that combo now but not impressed. The ramped knobs of the BB just slip and slide off of wet roots and rocks under power as a rear. I know most will disagree but the BB is a far better front tire than a rear. I'm going to switch mine around and go MM rear and BB front for the rest of the winter. Ideally tho I'll use MM's front and rear - it's just plain better than the BB in all conditions but dry hard pack.

My 2 cents,

G

PS - the 2.35 MM is nearly identical in size to the 2.4 BB.
PSS - Have a 2.35 BB UST for trade for any MM in good shape. Also have a DH version of the BB for trade for a DH MM.


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

clarkalewis said:


> betty's are great for trail riding. grip is no where near minion's, but quite good. sidewalls are somewhere between single and dh, a good balance for the weight. but causes too much roll over for aggressive dh riding (they are tall, big-volume tires!). haven't tried the mary's.


having ridden both, i feel more secure with the Big Betty than the Minion particularly when it gets sandy and loose


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## nicolais2000 (Dec 18, 2010)

Did anyone try the wicked will2.35 in the vertstar 3C version? Want to give it a try an replace my minion DHF in 2.5


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Ordered two Muddy Marys for Whistler trip.

2.5 Wire Vertstar front
2.35 Wire Performance rear


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

it is extremely fast rolling, it grips great, and its bigger than the Minion, better yet Schwalbes are very pressure sensitive, try to find your sweet spot, once you find it tattoo the pressure in your brain. 

But bear in mind, use it only in dry hardpack, and slightly loose; in very loose and sandy, or even worse wet conditions, can be very slippery. There was a nice review on pinkbike about the tire, check it out.

whenever its wet, go for a tire with gooey glue compound (now called Vertstar) a BigBetty or a Muddy Mary should be fine for almost any type of riding you used to do with the Minion.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

cesalec said:


> having ridden both, i feel more secure with the Big Betty than the Minion particularly when it gets sandy and loose


Then you've never tried the super tacky version of the Minion.

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

Gman086 said:


> Then you've never tried the super tacky version of the Minion.
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


there you are right, the tackiest I´ve gone with the Minion is the 3C, I figured out that if the 3C´s duration is quite brief, then the supertacky wouldnt last a week or 2. Therefore I have never tried it. I would consider it though for rainy days if they make it also in the new exo version and 2.7" or better yet 2.9" so they actually would be 2.7". =P


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

cesalec said:


> there you are right, the tackiest I´ve gone with the Minion is the 3C, I figured out that if the 3C´s duration is quite brief, then the supertacky wouldnt last a week or 2. Therefore I have never tried it. I would consider it though for rainy days if they make it also in the new exo version and 2.7" or better yet 2.9" so they actually would be 2.7". =P


Ive ridden minions for years started with the slowreezay , 3c and super tackys. Ill take a vert star mary or betty hands down as well as ridden them side by side and the marys hooks up better as well as faster. Overshot every jump by quite a bit and thought i was going slower being a new tire when i first ran them 3 years ago.

Yes maxxis is a go to tire the minion was my go to tire tried alot of stuff but nothing compared to the maxxis minion dhf. Tried schwalbes and been on em 3 years now and wont be going back to maxxis.


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## DOCRIGID (Sep 16, 2009)

sweeet chainlove has been blowing these out! going to try MM up front and the BB in back.


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

bullcrew said:


> Ive ridden minions for years started with the slowreezay , 3c and super tackys. Ill take a vert star mary or betty hands down as well as ridden them side by side and the marys hooks up better as well as faster. Overshot every jump by quite a bit and thought i was going slower being a new tire when i first ran them 3 years ago.
> 
> Yes maxxis is a go to tire the minion was my go to tire tried alot of stuff but nothing compared to the maxxis minion dhf. Tried schwalbes and been on em 3 years now and wont be going back to maxxis.


Well I dont have anything against Maxxis, except the sizes, but I agree, I love my schwalbes and swear by them. though I confess I am a tire freak and I would love to give the new Contis and Michelins a try =P


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## Rucker61 (Jul 21, 2006)

DOCRIGID said:


> sweeet chainlove has been blowing these out! going to try MM up front and the BB in back.


I just picked up a pair of the 2.5 MMs for front tires for my wife and I. Does anyone know what compound the Chainlove versions are? They're listed as "performance".


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Glenn D. said:


> I just picked up a pair of the 2.5 MMs for front tires for my wife and I. Does anyone know what compound the versions are? They're listed as "performance".


That's a very hard compound. U dun goofed.

But for 18 bucks its one heck of a deal.


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## Rucker61 (Jul 21, 2006)

tacubaya said:


> That's a very hard compound. U dun goofed.
> 
> But for 18 bucks its one heck of a deal.


Oh, well. There's a Maxxis sale at the LBS tomorrow night. Maybe I can pick up some Minions to go with the Ardents we already have.


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## DOCRIGID (Sep 16, 2009)

tacubaya said:


> That's a very hard compound. U dun goofed.
> 
> But for 18 bucks its one heck of a deal.


I kinda laughed when i pulled them out, but damn they were cheap.


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

Performance is a harder compund then the Evo, and it was only sold in north america, in europe they only sold, EVO or GGC, now converted to: Pacestar (for XC) , trailstar (for AM), verstar (for FR/DH)


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## Chuckie (Dec 26, 2006)

Bullcrew...talk to me about Big Betty vs Wicked Will as a rear tire...leaving the fantastic Muddy mary on the front <3


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

cesalec said:


> Performance is a harder compund then the Evo, and it was only sold in north america, in europe they only sold, EVO or GGC, now converted to: Pacestar (for XC) , trailstar (for AM), verstar (for FR/DH)


Evo wasn't a compound AFAIK, it was like an improvement of the line or something.

I think this is right:

Before: Performance, Triple Nano, Gooey Gluey
After: Pacestar, Trailstar, Vertstar


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

This past month I have been focusing on really getting my suspension dialled and I have read that running lowwer Psi in the tyres can help when running a firmer suspension setup. I have generally been quite lazy about tyre Psi and I have consistantly been running my front MM at 28-30Psi and rear BB at 30-32Psi. The last couple of days I have been running my MM at 26Psi and BB at 28Psi and holy crap it makes a difference. I hear people talking about sweet spots and I dont know if this is it for me but I can actualy feel the tyre moulding around rocks. I dont know if I will go lower and there are some full speed rock sections I will need to try before I can even say if my current Psi will be flat proof. Yesterdays riding was unreal and I cant believe the difference 2 Psi could make. I never noticed that much of a difference from 30 to 28 Psi in the front or 32-30 in the rear but the additional 2 Psi is huge. I still cant imagine running 22 Psi but I will have to try it. Most of my trails are hardpack so it sounds a little too low. Seems like I have brought new life to my old and trusty MM/BB combo.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

I run 20 psi front and 22 psi rear :ihih::ihih:

those conti/schwalbe tubes are nice


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## Rucker61 (Jul 21, 2006)

Just got back from a special sale at my LBS in support of my bike club/patrol, sponsored in part by Schwalbe. Picked up a pair of Vertstar DH Muddy Mary's for $40 each . I got my wife some folding Nobby Nics for $38 each. Sometimes service to the community does pay


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

Glenn D. said:


> Just got back from a special sale at my LBS in support of my bike club/patrol, sponsored in part by Schwalbe. Picked up a pair of Vertstar DH Muddy Mary's for $40 each . I got my wife some folding Nobby Nics for $38 each. Sometimes service to the community does pay


Those Verstar MMs are horrible, I hear...Want to make a quick profit?:thumbsup:


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I'm still running my Muddy Mary UST 2.35 out back even though our trails are starting to dry out. It's an awesome tire out back, and seems to get better when worn down with that grippy rubber. One of the best tires ever made.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

juan pablo said:


> The last couple of days I have been running my MM at 26Psi and BB at 28Psi and holy crap it makes a difference.


That's the setup I have and is the exact psi that I've been running since day 1. I go 175 lbs. and it's definitely the sweet-spot. Any lower and you risk burping/rim dents, any higher and you lose traction.

Am really wanting to try the WW on back in the Trailstar compound as the BB still slips too much with it's ramped knobs (not to mention it isn't exactly fast).

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Erratum: 4 mountain compounds.

Pacestar, Trailstar, Gatestar, Vertstar


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

tacubaya said:


> That's a very hard compound. U dun goofed.
> 
> But for 18 bucks its one heck of a deal.


I emailed them and they said it was the gooey gluey. I ordered 2 for kicks. If they suck at least they'll be a cheap rear tire.


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## Rucker61 (Jul 21, 2006)

Gemini2k05 said:


> I emailed them and they said it was the gooey gluey. I ordered 2 for kicks. If they suck at least they'll be a cheap rear tire.


The Schwalbe rep said he thought they were gooey glueys, too, based on his knowledge of what chainlove had for sale. I guess I'll be soft tire rich, then.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Chuckie said:


> Bullcrew...talk to me about Big Betty vs Wicked Will as a rear tire...leaving the fantastic Muddy mary on the front <3


Wicked will rear ifits bone dry and hard is a good tire if its rock dusty etc then the big betty is a better choice. I really like the betty rear if its dry or run off with pine needles granite pumice pine cones etc out comes the mary rear.

The vert star kicks @$$. Im very very impressed with it.

The betty rear is predictable and can be made to drift on cue as well as no funky break away point. Good breaking for super steeps with chunk as well as loose over hard.


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## deadbeat son (Feb 10, 2011)

In preparation for Trestle's opening day next weekend, I bought 4 of the Muddy Mary 2.5 Performance compounds from CL for my bike and the wife's. Unfortunately, they're a hair too large for our AM steeds; I should have known. :madman: 

I think I'll order a pair of the 2.35 next time they come up and run 2.5F/2.35R for our DH days this summer. I'm on a 2010 Enduro and she's on a 2010 Slayer.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> Wicked will rear ifits bone dry and hard is a good tire if its rock dusty etc then the big betty is a better choice. I really like the betty rear if its dry or run off with pine needles granite pumice pine cones etc out comes the mary rear.
> 
> The vert star kicks @$$. Im very very impressed with it.
> 
> The betty rear is predictable and can be made to drift on cue as well as no funky break away point. Good breaking for super steeps with chunk as well as loose over hard.


So what's your best combo then? MM vertstar front and back?


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## deadbeat son (Feb 10, 2011)

Gemini2k05 said:


> I emailed them and they said it was the gooey gluey. I ordered 2 for kicks. If they suck at least they'll be a cheap rear tire.





Glenn D. said:


> The Schwalbe rep said he thought they were gooey glueys, too, based on his knowledge of what chainlove had for sale. I guess I'll be soft tire rich, then.


I ordered earlier this week and they arrived today. The sidewall says, "Performance" and doesn't mention Gooey Gluey anywhere.


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## Rucker61 (Jul 21, 2006)

deadbeat son said:


> I ordered earlier this week and they arrived today. The sidewall says, "Performance" and doesn't mention Gooey Gluey anywhere.


Same here. Still, for under $20, it's not too bad of a tire.


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## deadbeat son (Feb 10, 2011)

Glenn D. said:


> Same here. Still, for under $20, it's not too bad of a tire.


Agreed.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Gman086 said:


> So what's your best combo then? MM vertstar front and back?


I like mm vert front/rear and has ben the solid go to. Ive been running big betty rear for a while now and really like it, havent found much i dont like the betty rear on. Been a solid tire low rolling resistance and brakes like a rutter on steep nasty stuff.

The muddy mary is a solid set up and grabs a handfull of traction and holds on in almost any situation.
Hard call if i had only one combo for a majority of terain it would be mm front and rear.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

bullcrew said:


> I like mm vert front/rear and has ben the solid go to. Ive been running big betty rear for a while now and really like it, havent found much i dont like the betty rear on. Been a solid tire low rolling resistance and brakes like a rutter on steep nasty stuff.
> 
> The muddy mary is a solid set up and grabs a handfull of traction and holds on in almost any situation.
> Hard call if i had only one combo for a majority of terain it would be mm front and rear.


Which BB are you on, vert? I'm not a fan of the triple compound as a rear - skids easily and loses traction when you really hammer. Do you notice any less rolling resistance with the BB vs the MM? Have any 2.35 Freeride MM's for sale?

Thanks,

G


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

Gman086 said:


> That's the setup I have and is the exact psi that I've been running since day 1. I go 175 lbs. and it's definitely the sweet-spot. Any lower and you risk burping/rim dents, any higher and you lose traction.
> 
> Am really wanting to try the WW on back in the Trailstar compound as the BB still slips too much with it's ramped knobs (not to mention it isn't exactly fast).
> 
> ...


I'm at 185lbs. I am happy with this setup but will definately try dropping a bit so i have something to compare with, I will also run higher Psi to feel what the tyre is doing. Front tyre is not so much of an issue but the rear BB has thinner side walls and on the hardpack trails it does roll a bit on the rim. Yesterday I left the Psi and did a pedal ride. It was so freaking sluggish I thought something was wrong with the bike. I really need to pay more attention to my tyres.

I still have the WW waiting? I want to finish off the BB first but its taking a while. I want to try WW rear and Minion Exo front, this will be my AM setup since it will be pretty light but should have good attributes. The WW should roll better and be perfect for the hardpack trails but I am not sure if the BB can handle wet conditions marginly better. Not much feedback yet. The low Psi has me enjoying the BB again. The MM is just sick.


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Vert star all the way front and rear. Yes the mm has a smidge more rolling resistance but not alot and it easily outweights the difference in rolling resistance with grip and traction control.

Yeah triple compound left alot to be desired. It washed out and chattered like it had 100.psi in it.

New compounds are significantly better and addressed these issues of past.


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## dropadrop (Sep 20, 2005)

Triple nano has nothing against trailstar. It rolls close to the same, but has bucketloads more traction (especially in wet or higher air pressure). It does seem to have a tendency to crumble in the rear on sharp rocks.


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

cesalec said:


> Performance is a harder compund then the Evo, and it was only sold in north america, in europe they only sold, EVO or GGC, now converted to: Pacestar (for XC) , trailstar (for AM), verstar (for FR/DH)


I must confess this new compounds are confusing me, I mean, before 2011 I knew if I wanted a great rolling long lasting tire, I´d take the TC Evo tire, and for wet conditions I would install the Gooey Glue Version.

Now..... apart from being apparently riding specific, which is which??? which would I run in dry conditions and which in wet????


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

bullcrew said:


> Wicked will rear ifits bone dry and hard is a good tire if its rock dusty etc then the big betty is a better choice. I really like the betty rear if its dry or run off with pine needles granite pumice pine cones etc out comes the mary rear.
> 
> The vert star kicks @$$. Im very very impressed with it.
> 
> The betty rear is predictable and can be made to drift on cue as well as no funky break away point. Good breaking for super steeps with chunk as well as loose over hard.


That is exactly the combo I´d run for almost any situation in a DH bike, of course it all depends on the conditions but that one is pretty sweet.

IAre you running both vertstar Bullcrew?, I am kinda confused now with the new naming convention.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

juan pablo said:


> but the rear BB has thinner side walls and on the hardpack trails it does roll a bit on the rim.


This is why I use the UST version for the rear - does not do that!

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

Does anyone know where the DH versions with the new compounds of the Big Betty, Wicked Will or Muddy Mary are in stock, or might be again?

(I knew the MM's were backordred, but not sure about the rest...)

These DH Ardents I have need to go. NOW.


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

I've got some MM on the way: 1x 2.5 GGC (f) and 1x 2.5 TC (r) for my park-able wheelset - both of these are DH casing.
I did also order up the Performance 2.5 MM that was on , but both and Schwalbe had the information wrong - the Performance version is a SINGLE PLY, not a DH casing. That is a deal killer for me, the rubber compound - I probably could have lived with it for the 2 or 3 park trips they'd see.

That being said, I've rocked either the UST or FR versions of the BB 2.4, the FA and NN for several years. I just mounted up a new-compound BB Trailstar and the new rubber compound is def. an improvement (ha, like the last left something to be desired!). I dig it, it holds on in the loose-over and just does what it is supposed to!


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

rscecil007 said:


> Does anyone know where the DH versions with the new compounds of the Big Betty, Wicked Will or Muddy Mary are in stock, or might be again?
> 
> (I knew the MM's were backordred, but not sure about the rest...)
> 
> These DH Ardents I have need to go. NOW.


Bike Components has them in stock dude.


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

tacubaya said:


> Bike Components has them in stock dude.


bikecomponents.com or what is the proper link?

I googled it, and I found bike-components.de a bit unpractical if you are in the american continent


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

cesalec said:


> bikecomponents.com or what is the proper link?
> 
> I googled it, and I found bike-components.de a bit unpractical if you are in the american continent


Bike-components.de

I'm a mexican and I was able to make an order... I can't see why an american can't order from them :skep:. You just need to know that Faltreifen means foldable and Drahtreifen means clincher (wire case).


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

tacubaya said:


> Bike-components.de
> 
> I'm a mexican and I was able to make an order... I can't see why an american can't order from them :skep:. You just need to know that Faltreifen means foldable and Drahtreifen means clincher (wire case).


I know the website, I bought from them once, I am mexican and I used to live in Germany, and I also lived in Austria. The problem of ordering from them is paying import taxes wherever you are in America: Canada, USA, Mexico, etc...of course it depends a lot on the particular country import´s law.

particularly mexican customs can be a pain in the @..s. If you order from germany via Deutsche Post (German Post) it might cost you 40euros, plus waiting for about 4 weeks, if they send it via UPS, DHL, it might cost aorund the same, but if your total package cost is more than 100usd, then UPs, DHL, will charge you some % of the amount on delivery (sinde they had to pay customs to get the package into Mexico) - and that is why I said ordering from europe being located in America (continent) is not practical.

Didnt you have to pay any import taxes :skep:??? How much did you orderd from them (quantity and amount in usd?)

anyway we are getting off topic here....


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

cesalec said:


> I know the website, I bought from them once, I am mexican and I used to live in Germany, and I also lived in Austria. The problem of ordering from them is paying import taxes wherever you are in America: Canada, USA, Mexico, etc...of course it depends a lot on the particular country import´s law.
> 
> particularly mexican customs can be a pain in the @..s. If you order from germany via Deutsche Post (German Post) it might cost you 40euros, plus waiting for about 4 weeks, if they send it via UPS, DHL, it might cost aorund the same, but if your total package cost is more than 100usd, then UPs, DHL, will charge you some % of the amount on delivery (sinde they had to pay customs to get the package into Mexico) - and that is why I said ordering from europe being located in America (continent) is not practical.
> 
> ...


You are wrong.

German shops usually send stuff via Deutsche Post. DHL is a division of Deusche Post, so it leaves the country with DHL speed and reaches destination country as a *national post agency*. In the case of Mexico, when it reaches the country it is then managed and delivered by Correos de México, and in the case of USA it is managed and delivered by the United States Postal Service. That means no excessive taxes (which is typical of private express companies like UPS, DHL and Fedex). If you ship something my Royal Mail to the USA, it is delivered by USPS.

I've ordered from Germany before and guess what? No taxes. Stuff gets here in less than two weeks (Germany to Mexico takes only like 3-4 days tops, rest of the time is lost in customs or in the mexican mail system). Last order (from Bike-components.de) took 13 days and was invoiced for 175 USD.


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

tacubaya said:


> You are wrong.
> 
> DHL is a division of Deusche Post,.


As far as I remember, DHL is not a division of the Deutsche Post, they bought quite a large shunk of DP when it was privatized some years ago. Which actually helped the deutsche post get much better. Once more we are deviating from the topic.

Anyway is good to know you didnt pay much taxes, and is definitely easier to get schwalbe tires from german shops  :thumbsup: next time I wont wait for them (I ordered a set from bike bling and it took about 4 weeks to get them shipped), they send to Mexico over USPS, you do actually pay taxes but is included in the postage and is very low, though they take 2 to 3 weeks to arrive.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

cesalec said:


> As far as I remember, DHL is not a division of the Deutsche Post, they bought quite a large shunk of DP when it was privatized some years ago. Which actually helped the deutsche post get much better. Once more we are deviating from the topic.
> 
> Anyway is good to know you didnt pay much taxes, and is definitely easier to get schwalbe tires from german shops  :thumbsup: next time I wont wait for them (I ordered a set from bike bling and it took about 4 weeks to get them shipped), they send to Mexico over USPS, you do actually pay taxes but is included in the postage and is very low, though they take 2 to 3 weeks to arrive.


Again, wrong. It's the other way round. In 2008 Deutsche Post adquired 51% of DHL.



> DHL is Part of the World's Leading Logistics Group, Deutsche Post DHL
> DHL offers integrated services and tailored, customer-focused solutions for managing and transporting letters, goods and information.


Source:
http://www.dhl.com/en/about_us/company_portrait.html


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

tacubaya said:


> Again, wrong. It's the other way round. In 2008 Deutsche Post adquired 51% of DHL.
> 
> Source:
> http://www.dhl.com/en/about_us/company_portrait.html


You are right, I stand corrected, 

But the real important thing here is: you can order from bike-components.de and not pay import taxes (at least not exesive import taxes) and they arrive quickly (considering they come from europe) :thumbsup:


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

cesalec said:


> You are right, I stand corrected,
> 
> But the real important thing here is: you can order from bike-components.de and not pay import taxes (at least not exesive import taxes) and they arrive quickly (considering they come from europe) :thumbsup:


Yup!!! :thumbsup:

Another good german bike stop is Starbike (www.starbike.com) although they don't carry as many Schwalbe models as Bike-Components


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

tacubaya said:


> Yup!!! :thumbsup:
> 
> Another good german bike stop is Starbike (www.starbike.com) although they don't carry as many Schwalbe models as Bike-Components


perhaps one of the best to buy Schwalbe tires in Germany is:
www.reifenhouse.de

you could also try http://www.fahrrad.de, or www.bike-mailorder.de


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

*BB is an amazing rear tire, full combo is great!*

I have finally, tried the Big Betty in the rear.....

.....and well I think I am in LOVE  , so much ( i think they deserve their own thread:arf

I was trying to wait to wear down the Fat Albert, and boy, I waited tooooo long :madman:

Having one of these fat ladies on the the front I already liked it a looot :yesnod::yesnod::yesnod:

But today riding with the full Big Betty treatment (front and rear).....I was :yikes: truly blown away.... I never felt so fast in my bike, so light, and I am certainly not used to the traction this baby provides in the rear.... it will simply push you forward!  - it grips, it rolls quick, it brakes... loose, hardpack, rocks, off camber - wow :eekster: (let the rain come I already want to try these in the wet!)

now I am wondering if I made a mistake by ordering a Hans Dampf.... :skep:

I think the bettys will my favorites for quite a while... hope they make some bigger sizes for DH soon.

One question though, I was running the following pressures today:
front: 25.8psi
rear: 30.5psi

and something felt kind of off, there was something hmmm :idea: strange... ok it might be my terrific non existant fitness and the long time off the saddle... what pressures do you run your bettys in both (front/rear) ??


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

What is your weight?

I'm at 210 without gear.
I usually run them at 26-27 in front and about 30 in rear.
I have rolled a BB off of the front when I went down to the low 20's. ( Tubed )

michael


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

Right now I should be around 80Kg approx: 176.4 pounds....
I kinda felt the rear Big Betty to hard on the 30.5psi... ill have to wait anther week to try a new setting... I was thinking something around 28 perhaps..


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Im currently running vert star front muddy mary rear big betty on the dh set ups and the sx has muddy mary front vert rear trail. (LOVING THE TRAIL COMPOUND OUT BACK.)


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## cesalec (Aug 28, 2008)

I recently ordered 2 sets of MM and BB for the DH bikes of my brother, he is actually in love with the Micheli DH comp 16(i think, well the same as the new wild gripr) and the Geax Lobo mas Loco as a rear tire, but I am sure he will ditch both one the schwalbes arrive...


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## schoolisbad1 (Dec 17, 2004)

I've been riding the BB up front for the past 6 months and really have no complaints, I'm wondering/wanting to try the muddy mary or hans dampf next. I ride 50% dry, 40% loam and 10% rocky. You guys have any suggestions, should I try out the MM?


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I would think the MM up front with a HD out back if you are riding AM stuff all the way up to Bike Park. Maybe a BB out back if you don't like the HD for some reason.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Holy resurrection from the dead Batman!!!

FWIW, I changed my tune... the BB's are fast once they wear in and make great rear tires. MM's rule as a front tire in sticky version. Use MM rear for mud/wet conditions over BB. Hans Dampf's are trail tires and worked poorly for me at high speeds - way too much tire roll (weak sidewalls).

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Gman086 said:


> Holy resurrection from the dead Batman!!!
> 
> FWIW, I changed my tune... the BB's are fast once they wear in and make great rear tires. MM's rule as a front tire in sticky version. Use MM rear for mud/wet conditions over BB. Hans Dampf's are trail tires and worked poorly for me at high speeds - way too much tire roll (weak sidewalls).
> 
> ...


I held out on getting an Hans Dampf's, do HD sidewalls roll over more compared to 2.35 MM FR trailstar sidewalls?


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

I am a bit of Schwalbe fan.
I have:
Freeride
- Muddy Mary Gooey Gluey
- Big Betty Triple-Nano
- Big Betty Trailstar
DownHill
- Big Betty Vertstar
- Muddy May Vertstar
Trail
-HansDampf Trailstar.
-Fat Albert Triple-Nano


In answer to you question - Yes.
The HD sidewall is not as tough or stiff as the Freeride MM/BB/WW.

If you like the HansDampf tread patten, they are coming out with a new version.
It has a DownHill dual-ply Sidewall, but a single-ply Freeride tread section.
This is the tire that Danny Hart was playing with in the WC - although Danny ran his cut.

Supposed to give great support, whilst allowing a supple tread to better conform to ground features than the normal 2 ply DH.


FYI - if yer interested.

I no longer ride the FA - they are on a loaner hardtail.
For trail - I ride the HD, I like them for most of my slow-speed local stuff - but when speed pick up they tend to wash a bit in front on HardPack or loose over hard.

If I'm going somewhere where the speeds are higher, but I still have to pedal, then it is the BB and MM.
If dry - BB front and rear
If tacky - MM front - BB rear
If wet - MM front and Rear

For lift service, then out come the full on DH meats.
Dry - BB Front and Rear
Tacky - MM front and BB rear.

Don't have a rear MM, as the lift hill I frequent does not open when trails are wet - they are primarily clay over shale - so pretty much unrideable in the wet unless you want to sample dirt and trash the trails.

michael


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Good info, thanks.. Think I'll stay with MM & BB


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

I wash my HD's in the front at high speeds all the time, not sure what it is about that tire and being leaned over at high speeds that dont get along. They are great at slow/average trail speeds but get in over there head pretty quick in the faster stuff. The MM is much better as a front at high speeds, I still love the BB for pretty much a tire that can do everything in the dry front and rear.


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

I also get that w/ tubes and MM in the dry loose, but that seems to be more tread wear when it gets spooky.


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## CombatMutt (Jan 3, 2011)

I have the Muddy Mary's and the rear tire wore out, for the most part, after one riding season. I don't have a ton of money to keep buying tires, especially expensive ones like that. The front tire looks good so I'll stick with that, plus I haven't really had any problems with it.


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

mykel said:


> The HD sidewall is not as tough or stiff as the Freeride MM/BB/WW.If you like the HansDampf tread patten, they are coming out with a new version.It has a DownHill dual-ply Sidewall, but a single-ply Freeride tread section.This is the tire that Danny Hart was playing with in the WC - although Danny ran his cut.Supposed to give great support, whilst allowing a supple tread to better conform to ground features than the normal 2 ply DH.


I don't need tires so haven't tried them, yet. You're right, saw one those super gravity 2.35 trailstar, in the box comparison the sidewalls 2x stiffer than FR trailstar


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