# Pitbulls on Trail



## HANKg (Mar 20, 2006)

I've been thinking of getting a dog. I want something, that can run a lot and not get tired. I like pitbulls, y biggest concern is other hikers/bikers/dogs reactions. Has anyone had any experience with these dogs on the trail?


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## Zonk0u (Jun 3, 2004)

I hate pittbulls, or any dog for that matter with the inconsistant and unpredictable predisposition for snapping and attacking someone with the power and lethality to kill whatever they're going off on. I've seen some very very sweet pitts in my life time, and I've also seen the same dog who the family grew up with raised and had nothing but a loving relationship with snap, and take off a childs face for looking at it wrong.

Get a labrador hound or setter. the shorter the hair, the easier the cleanup when they get frisky and go creek hopping, mudrolling, and Sh!t eating.


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## njhcx4xlife (Jan 9, 2006)

Every trail dog I've had experience with was a lab or a mutt. The mutts were adopted and I honestly think dogs you adopt from the pound are more grateful than some other dogs. You saved their a$$ from hell basically. I have a lab that we have had since he was a puppy and he is a spoiled a$$hole. I will def adopt my next dog b/c it is for a good cause. I would highly advise against a pitbull too for similar reasons of Zonk. It is in their instinct to attack and they could be fine for a long time and then just snap. Not to mention people reactions when a pit is running at them on a trail and if they get scared of the dog and the dog senses fear that could get ugly


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## airwreck (Dec 31, 2003)

just so happens I got bit by a pitbull a couple months ago as I was coming down the trail. The girls who were hiking with it had moved well off the trail and were trying to hold the dog back but he got away and clamped onto my leg, missed my armor too. I don't think the girls knew it was a bike trail (it's not a legal trail, but it is state forest), and that the dog didn't like bikers. I probably could have prevented it if I had stopped but they were well out of the way.

Same area is a hunting area, hunters use dogs, usually pit mixes for pig hunting, I've seen hiker/biker dogs get there assses kicked by these dogs, but they don't mess with us riders. In fact there are alot of times when we help lost hunting dogs find there way back.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*I like pit bulls on the trail.*

They make great target practice.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

i wouldn't suggest getting a pitbull if you are planning on having it run with you down trails fully free to do whatever it pleases. even if it was a perfectly nice dog, the reaction from other trails users could be very bad. i do like pitbulls, i know someone who has a pit mix and it seems to be one of the nicest dogs i've meet but *if you put one in the wrong situation you could end up giving the bread an even worse rep then they already have which isn't fair. * there are plenty of other super athletic, people friendly dogs out there. i also suggest adopting a dog from a rescue of some sort.


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## sriracha (Jun 23, 2004)

i won't join the discussion about the behavior of pits, but i had a friend in college that had one. kublai kahn was his name, awesome dog. we took kublai trail riding all the time, he totally ripped. kublai was one of the better trail dogs, he was fast, could run forever, and he kept the grizzly bears away.

adopting a mut is a great idea, i've seen some good trail muts.
labs are dumb and they get addicted to fetching.


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## Goliath_2 (Jul 29, 2004)

*Ichiban*

i've gotta pit/healer mix.. he rocks the trails :thumbsup:


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

TNC said:


> They make great target practice.


:nono:bad:nono: bad:nono: bad:nono:


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## konut (Mar 25, 2006)

i would to agree with tnc on that one.

considering its supossed to be a banned dog in the uk.

not the dogs fault of course idiot owners.


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## proxy (Oct 19, 2006)

*A Pitbull Is A Poor Choice*

You need to really think about some things....

1. Do you know how to train dogs (with years of experience)?
2. Do you plan to keep the dog primarily on your property and NEVER walk it off leash.
3. Do you (or will you) have other dogs?
4. Do you live in the US (most homeowners policies will not cover your house with this dog choice)?
5. Do you (or will you have kids)?

If you answered yes to #1 & #2 then you get a point for each
If you answered yes to any others, take away a point for each
If your total is a negative number DONT GET THIS BREED!

Now I have met many owners of Pit mixes (rescued animals) whose dogs are very well adjusted and socialized (but this took a very skilled amount of training). The problems with a pit (and similar breeds) are two fold, first, they were bred for a specific task (not a pretty one I might add) which makes them EXTREMELY DOG AGGRESSIVE, and second, once they bite they will not let go (such a strong bite its as if their jaw locks, which is why they are so deadly in dog fight "pits" they simply will not let go).

If you want a dog that is smart, great with kids & other animals. can run non-stop all day, loyal, not dog aggressive (unless provoked), but still offers home and personal protection, look into a Belgian Malinois (the choice of most LE agencies), the Beauceron (also a top LE and Special Forces pick), or some of the other herding breeds (which typically have high drive and can run their arse off).

Best of luck! Here are some great links to see what I do with my dogs:thumbsup:

http://www.workingdogs.com/Reno99/welcome.htm
http://www.ringsport.org/champs/Ring3/ring3.htm
http://www.ringsport.org/Pictures/2006coa/2006coa.htm


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## n8whitie (Dec 18, 2006)

I love pit bulls and I used to have one(adopted) until she attacked my EXg/fs dog and her twat mother had the city take her away from me. They are great, loving dogs.... but they are also a walking liability. All it takes is one person to get bit for any reason and its yours and your dogs asses.


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## z28steve (Aug 27, 2006)

A pit would definately not be the best decision for this application. While i disagree with some peoples opinion of all pits are mean and attack anything, you must consider that this breeds "gamey" temperment would not be good for what you want to do with it.

1. If this dog is to be running with you while your riding this means he will more than likely be off a leash. This breed likes to test their owners for control whenever they can,and as a responsible owner you must be in control 100% of the time with a dog this powerful.

2. With that "gamey" temperment you must consider there will be other people on these trails riding. Now a pit may chase them thinking that the people are playing (gamey temperment) while in these peoples eyes, there is a huge ferocious pit bull chasing them down to kill them. There have been numerous attacks on children to which i believe this is the exact reason. Child sees dog and wants to play, dog is too big and is too rough for small child, child then turns and tries to get away, dogs gamey temp. takes over and chases, child then begins to actually fight out of fear, dog is being faught with so it fights back, child is killed and another vicious ferocious pit bull was on the hunt and killed a child is on every major news chanel.


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## Hangtime (Jan 25, 2006)

The best trail dog I have ever came upon was a guy riding with an Austrailian Catle dog. The trail was in Edmonton Ab along the Nth Sask river and half the time the dog was playing in the water. All it took was one command from the owner and he was at his side. 

To ride with a dog you need one that is trainable while off lead. I own a Lab who has his AKC Junior Hunter title but still would not feel comfortable taking him onto a well traveled trail with hikers. Liability is very high these days. Trained or not, loving and friendly or not they are still dogs and faced with a challange they react to it. Good luck


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## z28steve (Aug 27, 2006)

I'm not saying there are no good pits out there, but just running free with people running, riding, and perhaps even having their own dogs running with them i feel this is a recipe for disaster. I hope i have enlightened you as well as educated you in this matter. I do not own pit bulls nor will i ever. I like the breed but this is a breed for someone who has the total time, dedication, and know how on how to have one of these dog, and sometimes that doesn't even prevent an attack. So i hope i saved the life of the pit that you would of got that would of attacked someone who would of died or sued you for way more of the money that you would have spent buying a dog that was not a good decision for you in the first place. I hope i have educated some of the rest of you guys too. My intention is not to piss anyone off merely to give you knowledge that might help you.


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## z28steve (Aug 27, 2006)

One more thing pitbulls as well as ever other dog on this earth DO NOT,repeat DO NOT have a locking jaw and to think so is rediculous.


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## konut (Mar 25, 2006)

what about one of them dogs josh bender had.

that was nuts


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## Goliath_2 (Jul 29, 2004)

right on jmac... australians are great dogs... i think there might be some of that in ichiban too. excellent trail dogs!


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## Godzilla (Mar 31, 2005)

Don't do it. We have a Presa Canario and a Dogge de Bordeaux, both of which are very well behaved, and neither one of which I could imagine attacking someone - the truth of the matter though is that we do not let them run off leash anywhere there might be other dogs, you never know if someone else's dog is socialized and there's something a wee bit unsettling about the thought of trying to pry Lucy's jaws from the head of some hapless schmuck's aggressive (and off-leash) dog.

I've ridden with both dogs off leash before in remote areas, but it's more stress than it's worth.


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## proxy (Oct 19, 2006)

z28steve said:


> ........With that "gamey" temperment you must consider there will be other people on these trails riding. Now a pit may chase them thinking that the people are playing (gamey temperment) while in these peoples eyes, there is a huge ferocious pit bull chasing them down to kill them. There have been numerous attacks on children to which i believe this is the exact reason. Child sees dog and wants to play, dog is too big and is too rough for small child, child then turns and tries to get away, dogs gamey temp. takes over and chases, child then begins to actually fight out of fear, dog is being faught with so it fights back, child is killed and another vicious ferocious pit bull was on the hunt and killed a child is on every major news chanel.


I would tend to disagree with your description above (as do most animal behaviorists) in that this breed in particular is extremely quick to jump from inquiry to attack mode, not because of a playful nature, but because of its inherent instincts (which can be fettered out with skilled training). It does not attack kids through escalation of play (typically), but rather because a kid is small like another dog, and this breed (without heavy socialization and quality training) is EXTREMELY DOG AGGRESSIVE. In addition, it has an insatiable drive to clamp its jaws (like when playing tug-war), again an instinctual drive shared by many in this breeding family (like Boxers). However, Boxers were bred as Bull Baiting dogs (not to fight in dog pits), and while can be dog aggressive, are easily socialized with other dogs and are fantastic with kids. In contrast, the "PitBull" was bred to fight other dogs, and is an absolute thoroughbred at its task!

As my post above stated, I know many a sweet Pit Bull (and some which can be off leash at our Ring Sport meets) but those are owned by skilled trainers. IT IS NOT AN EVIL BREED, but you better know what your doing and cary lots of insurance!


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## DOWNHILLNEWS (Oct 2, 2006)

proxy said:


> You need to really think about some things....
> 
> 1. Do you know how to train dogs (with years of experience)?
> 2. Do you plan to keep the dog primarily on your property and NEVER walk it off leash.
> ...


OK you were right on a few things there but just a few. I have had PITS most my life and know more than a good % of breeders/trainers.
1. They were bred to fight.
2. They used to CULL (kill) aggressive ones and sometimes those without high drive.
3. Now there are IDIOTS that saw some clown on MTV bredding these things like they are ants.
4. Now the dogs that show aggression are preffered?
5. What was once left out of them is now being promoted by people who know nothing about the breed.
6. I have a 65LB female RED NOSE they get that way because red is reccissve and only having a red mom and dad gives ya that!
7. Their laws do not LOCK that is a myth! It is called muscle and yes they have a good amount around the jaw.
8. You can use a flat piece of wood up against their back mollars and open the mouths no problem.
9. Sorry for the tangent, but that is just some general knowledge.
10. Their heart and mind is what makes them win fights. There are stories and true ones of dogs shaking each other hard enough to break a front leg and the wounded one continues to try and fight! I in no way condone this act.
11. If the have a high drive they will not back down from a fight, my dog has rolled a claimed "100" lb male that attacked our other dog. The owner an "idiot I may add, sat by nad watched his stupid dog hammer on our lab! Well when Sage came and grabbed him by the neck with enough force to flip him on his back and commense to shake him like a stuffed toy neither the owner nor the dog thought it was so fun anymore.
12. If the dog has a high drive it will go after other dogs if threatened, and it isn't the litter snap, snap and all that growling it is straight throwing around by the mouth!
*13. THEY DON"T RUN WELL ANYHOW!!!!*


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## proxy (Oct 19, 2006)

Godzilla---- Handsome fellows there, do you do any competing?


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

Well the men who created this breed and brought it over from England and Ireland never fought them till death! That is BS all their time and money went into breeding these animals. Todays street punks may treat them differently and don't care if they live but that has only been over the last 15 years or so.


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## Hangtime (Jan 25, 2006)

Re: Ichiban, I would probably say that he/she is not carying the predominant Aussie gene. They are short and built like little kegs. Usually grey/brindle in color. Maybe some Dingo. Nice looking dog none the less.


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

Here is our dog BTW.


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## =ChrisB= (Aug 8, 2006)

I don't know WHY so many people hate pit-bulls... there really sweet for the most part. Its just that so many are mis-carred fore, which results in the attacks. It seems pit-bull attacks are more publicized.


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## dirtdogg (Nov 21, 2006)

With really good training anything is possible but why not make it easy on yourself, the dog, and other trial users and get a breed better suited for the task. Do your research and find a breed that bonds well with people and is not known for aggression toward other people or animals.


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

I think some people should stop believing EVERYTHING the media tells them...and find out some facts for themselves...



btw...my pits rock... and they are, umm (were) great hiking/backpacking dogs, but not good trail dogs...some are though...


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

TNC said:


> They make great target practice.


you should be target practice

1. for saying that
2. for owning that gun

:nono:


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

*Don't blame the breed - blame the breeder or owner*

Most people think that pitbulls are vicious, dog fighting killers. Many people fear them because dumb a$$ owners and scumbag trailer trash, hip-hop gangsta wanna-be retards usually own them..

You only hear about the pitbull biting cases across america. But there are probably thousands of beagle, chiwawa, lab, shepard etc. cases each day that do not get the attention of a pit. It is just stupid. ANY dog can turn on another dog or person at any time if provoked.

I have 2 pit mixes and these are the ONLY 2 dogs that I would ever put my face near EVER. I am confident with them as I am a knowledgeable pit owner - one that has taken both to obedience and socialization classes. My wife and I take them to the local dog park to run and play with the rest of the dogs and we watch over them closely. Some dogs do not mix well with others and we take them away if there is one dog that may not agree with either dog. This happens with any breed. But due to the overall attention pits get, it would be our dogs fault so we will just pack up and go somewhere else...

The problem is that pits like to play rough. If you saw my two (male and female) playing/wrestling, a normal person would think they are fighting. They raise theri lips, snarl, chase, roll over, bite (playfully) and overall look like they are fighting. This is normal as this breed playes rough. Every 2 minutes they stop, lick each other, then go another round...

The issue that most owners are ignorant and really don't take the time to work and know the limitations of their dog. I am proud to own pit mixes and they are they are great dogs.

For the OP I don't think pits make a great trail dog. One reason is the chance you take having a targeted breed running off of a leash. Just too much to risk....As good as my dogs are, if they were off their leash and saw a squirrel, they would be off running after it. My little guy thinks he can cath birds as they fly over so no go off a leash....

Here is a pic of the little guys:

Lounging in bed....









Lounging in bed again...









Hanging out on the outdoor furniture...


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## FloridaFish (Mar 29, 2004)

Demo-9 said:


> Most people think that pitbulls are vicious, dog fighting killers. Many people fear them because dumb a$$ owners and scumbag trailer trash, hip-hop gangsta wanna-be retards usually own them..
> 
> You only hear about the pitbull biting cases across america. But there are probably thousands of beagle, chiwawa, lab, shepard etc. cases each day that do not get the attention of a pit. It is just stupid. ANY dog can turn on another dog or person at any time if provoked.
> 
> ...


Good post.

Pitbulls can also be a bit stubborn, not the easiest dogs to keep in complete control.


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

DOWNHILLNEWS said:


> *13. THEY DON"T RUN WELL ANYHOW!!!!*


This seems to be the point a lot of people are leaving out in the "pits are walking liability" comments. I always believe the owner can make the difference, but you've got to be very consistent with discipline and you have to be the alpha with any dog....especially a dog with a big drive. There was a great new yorker article (showing my leftist ways) last February by Malcolm Gladwell. He wrote about the profiling and banning of a dog breed and he brought up some great points. I recommend people read this.....it still doesn't mean everyone should own a pit bull, but it might help people reconsider their opinions about the breed.
http://malcolmgladwell.com/2006/2006_02_06_a_pitbull.html

Pit bulls generally can run fast for a short while and then poop out, which means you'll be walking it or carrying it back from some trail rides. I won't say you couldn't have a pit with great endurance that could be a good biking companion, but it's unlikely.

I've got two lab mixes that were rescues and they ride 2-3x per week and can go all day with us. Do yourself and a dog a favor and pick one up that needs a home from a rescue. www.petfinder.com :thumbsup:

Cheers,
EBX


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## HANKg (Mar 20, 2006)

Thanks for all the replies. I expected to hear most of this, as I've been doing a fair amount of reading about the dogs. I had dropped the idea of getting a pit a while back, but a friends pit stayed with me this weekend. Great dog, weill behaved, I didn't want to give it back.

Ideally I'm looking for a large dog, short haired, that would be a good trail dog(can run off leash). Any more recomendations, or yays or nays for the pits are much appreciated.


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## Imperial (Jun 9, 2006)

my dogs are awesome trail dogs,there brothers,ok there mongrals(ridge back,colley,alsasion) but there awesome dogs,they know the score,average about 100 miles every week,half on trails,half in the city,they know the roads very well,i never have them on a lead anywhere,you can train a dog almost anything,the brown one is 48kg









a rhodesian ridgeback would be a very nice trail dog.


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## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

An ideal trail dog wouldnt be a big dog, as it would be taxing on the hips and joints of big dogs to run long distances regularly (in most cases)

a ridgeback would be a good exception


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## Imperial (Jun 9, 2006)

my dogs are awesome trail dogs,there brothers,ok there mongrals(ridge back,colley,alsasion) but there awesome dogs,they know the score,average about 100 miles+ every week,half on trails,half in the city,they know the roads very well,i never have them on a lead anywhere,you can train a dog almost anything,the brown one is 48kg,a big dog would be alot better.









a rhodesian ridgeback would be a very nice trail dog.


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## Karupshun (Jun 13, 2006)

jeez, if you want a dog that can run, and one that isn't going to freak out and eat a baby

get a border collie, they'll tire you out long before you wear them down, they are incredibly intelligent and easy to train, excellent kids&people dogs, and readily available at the spca

people with pitbulls look like douches or drug dealers


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

irieness said:


> you should be target practice
> 
> 1. for saying that
> 2. for owning that gun
> ...


Should I shoot you or your dog if the dog gets agressive?


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## zachdank (Jun 15, 2005)

Jayem said:


> Should I shoot you or your dog if the dog gets agressive?


Neither, because i would take your gun from you and stick it up your as$. No joke.


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## fiddy_ryder (Jun 15, 2005)

why not look into getting an american staffordshire terrier. they tend to have a better and less volatile temperment.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*I hope...and think...you're kidding.*



irieness said:


> you should be target practice
> 
> 1. for saying that
> 2. for owning that gun
> ...


Last I heard, freedom of speech and gun ownership are still legal...even on the west coast.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

My Pit is a great trail dog. He will run 25 miles without slowing down. His trail manners are excellent, and he is good with all other dogs that are not hyper-dominant. He will avoid a fight if provoked, but if bitten you need to be there to save the other dogs life... there is literally no other dog that will have a chance against a 60 lb male. Almost everyone that has met my dog on the trail has been very impressed with his manners and personality, even if they were initially scared or negative toward him.

Because of recent poor breeding, you need to be really careful where you get them. The ADBA (American Dog Breeders Association) standards are what a Pit is supposed to be. Mine is about %98 perfect, and has won Judge's Choice at the only show I've ever taken him to. They ARE NOT supposed to be squatty, fat dogs with huge heads. They are supposed to be fast, agile, strong and long-legged.

They have the highest prey/play drive of any breed, so you do need to be an experienced dog owner and trainer. Some may become dog aggressive, but again if you are careful about what kind of dog you are buying you can minimize this issue. Many of the best fighting dogs of all time are NOT dog aggressive outside of a fight.

The draw of these dogs for me, is the fact that these dogs are closer to human than any other breed. Their emotions and expressions are so human its unbelievable. They also love people and will do anything to please their owners (not always a good thing with bad owners).

At one time Pits were considered the ideal family pet, were the armed forces mascot during ww2, the RCA dog is a Pit, the Little Rascals dog is a Pit.... and, once the Pit recognizes kids and babies as human, are far less likely to bite or attack a kid than a Retriever, Lab, or in fact most other breeds. They were considered an ideal "nanny" dog to watch over and play with kids.

Its really too bad, Pits rep these days is a human problem, not a canine problem...


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## proxy (Oct 19, 2006)

ebxtreme said:


> I've got two lab mixes that were rescues and they ride 2-3x per week and can go all day with us. Do yourself and a dog a favor and pick one up that needs a home from a rescue. www.petfinder.com :thumbsup:
> Cheers,EBX


I heartily second the sentiment and applaud those who do the same! All 3 of my dogs are rescue animals, 2 through breed specific rescues and one from the pound (all fixed of course). My only word of caution is that if you get a big guy from a rescue (A 138lb Shepherd Wolf mix with no training what so ever) be prepared for having your hands full (He's now Schutzhund II)!



To the OP, I really think you should look at breeds (and mixes) that are in the working/hearding group because they have the best characteristics for off leash work (look into Schutzhund & French Ring Groups as to what these characteristics are and why certain breeds are better suited). I have a wonderful Boxer (a rescue), but he likes to sprint way to often (and thus tires way to fast) and is much more easily distracted on the trail than a herding type breed.

Best of luck and by all means get a RESCUE!!!!


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## be350ka (Dec 17, 2004)

TNC said:


> Last I heard, freedom of speech and gun ownership are still legal...even on the west coast.


Haha. You mean the LEFT coast. And by the way, guns are not bad (not directed at you TNC).


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## proxy (Oct 19, 2006)

Imperial said:


> a rhodesian ridgeback would be a very nice trail dog.


Second that!


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## scabrider (Oct 3, 2004)

dobermans. my grandparents had some that were great on the trail...


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## AKA Monkeybutt (May 9, 2006)

It's the owners not the dogs.

I have a very large female...

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2808997250070195217PCbgck

and a now larger than the pic male...

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2727343230070195217aapumB

Both are the best dogs I've ever owned and are nothing like the uneducated public opinion of pits. Any dog when treated poorly gets mean.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

zachdank said:


> Neither, because i would take your gun from you and stick it up your as$. No joke.


Really? Do you break into peoples houses to take their guns from them? Thank god for you, who hast judged themselves holier than anyone else. God, if we could all be as pure and rightious as you, then the world would be such a great place eh?

How many times have you tested your methods?

On the other hand, I probably wouldn't reach for my gun if I was faced with an agressive dog, I'd just beat it with my bike because that's what I have easily available, although I don't usually have any problem because I'm prepared to beat the living crap out of any dog I encounter, and due to the lack of fear, I've never have a problem with them. Riding away only makes it worse.


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## Master_Jako (Mar 27, 2004)

very intreasting thread. once im able to support a dog, ill deff be getting a few.


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## zachdank (Jun 15, 2005)

Jayem said:


> I probably wouldn't reach for my gun if I was faced with an agressive dog, I'd just beat it with my bike because that's what I have easily available, although I don't usually have any problem because I'm prepared to beat the living crap out of any dog I encounter


Bwhahahahaha. I would love to see your goofy as$ try to beat Frank with your bike. He would laugh at you, then stick your bike up your as$. No joke.


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

HANKg said:


> Thanks for all the replies. I expected to hear most of this, as I've been doing a fair amount of reading about the dogs. I had dropped the idea of getting a pit a while back, but a friends pit stayed with me this weekend. Great dog, weill behaved, I didn't want to give it back.
> 
> Ideally I'm looking for a large dog, short haired, that would be a good trail dog(can run off leash). Any more recomendations, or yays or nays for the pits are much appreciated.


Dude get either a POINTER or a VISCLA (sp). Both are about 50-60 Lbs short haired and super hyper!!!!!!!!!


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

jmac1911 said:


> The best trail dog I have ever came upon was a guy riding with an Austrailian Catle dog. The trail was in Edmonton Ab along the Nth Sask river and half the time the dog was playing in the water. All it took was one command from the owner and he was at his side.


i think ive seen that dog...the first time i ever hit a freride trail with actual drops (haha, 2 years ago on a wal-mart bike) this guy came by with his dog, hitting the drops crossed the creek via sketchy bridge and the dog followed, never straying more than 10 yards into the bush from the rider. the next week i was at the bike shop getting my flow


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## airwreck (Dec 31, 2003)

dog air video


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## mwcet8k (Jun 17, 2004)

Awesome video! There's your answer - get a Border Collie.


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## Godzilla (Mar 31, 2005)

proxy said:


> Godzilla---- Handsome fellows there, do you do any competing?


Thanks - but actually those are not my dogs, I just grabbed some quick pics online that looked like them since I didn't have any handy. We don't do any competing, but have a friend who has.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

zachdank said:


> Bwhahahahaha. I would love to see your goofy as$ try to beat Frank with your bike. He would laugh at you, then stick your bike up your as$. No joke.


Ah, so you're telling me that I should just shoot your dog on sight and save myself the trouble. Thanks for the tip.

BTW, I think it's so cool how you force your dog to wear a big heavy rusty collar. That's just so hip.


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## blackagness (Mar 1, 2005)

Bird dogs make the best runners IMO. Particilarly German Short Haired Pointers. Labs have the best temperment, both are breed to have a really soft mouth too. I've seen/ heard of some pretty knarly Pittbulls, but I've never heard of one turning on it's master just out of no where. Chows on the other hand can't be trusted PERIOD!

I had a Colly when I was a kid... smartest dog I ever owned, I mean almost creepy smart. German Shepards are nice but strctly a one man dog, which tends to be a headach esp for a trail dog IMO.


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

I've had bad experiences w/ aggressive dogs (unleashed) on the trail. If there's a leash law, dogs should be on a leash. The last time it was two pits that came at me w/ teeth bared w/ the naziesque looking hiker laughing. Thank god it was a downhill section. 

I love dogs (all animals), but the next time a dog decides to attack, he may be met w/ bear mace. The owner too for that matter...


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## RobsterCraw (Oct 19, 2004)

Pits are great dogs if they have the right upbringing. I will say though. Pits can be downright obsessive, and kinda needy. Best pits are ones that grow up with other dogs and are well diciplined.


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

RobsterCraw said:


> Pits are great dogs if they have the right upbringing. I will say though. Pits can be downright obsessive, and kinda needy. Best pits are ones that grow up with other dogs and are well diciplined.


Seems like every other day a pitbull kills its owner's child. I guess you have to make some sacrifices to own such a good breed.


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

Locoman said:


> I've had bad experiences w/ aggressive dogs (unleashed) on the trail. If there's a leash law, dogs should be on a leash. The last time it was two pits that came at me w/ teeth bared w/ the naziesque looking hiker laughing. Thank god it was a downhill section.
> 
> I love dogs (all animals), but the next time a dog decides to attack, he may be met w/ bear mace. The owner too for that matter...


I had a bad experience with a couple of my neighbors Rotts years ago. Sweet as pie when standing there with my neighbor, but only minutes earlier were lunging and gnashing their teeth at me with their hair standing up on their backs as I washed my car. What I read later was that some breeds tend to get more agressive when they are in groups of two or more. Pack mentality I guess, but certainly something to consider when dealing with more than one dog on the trail.

I do find it interesting that so many people are ready to defend the Pitbull when the statistics show that they are the number one dog involved in death/homicide related attacks by far, followed by Rottweilers. These are facts taken over a number of years, not heresay. Here is a link to a site with some of those stats:

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html#Thedogsmostlikelytobite

I am sure many owners have well-behaved Pits, but by the stats you can't ignore the fact that they are overall a much more agressive breed and because of this stigma more likely to cause fear in other trail users.

Regardless of the breed though, as a rider I have run across more than my share of loose dogs on leash-restricted trails, and have seen riders taken out as the dogs cut in front of them on the trail. Unfortunately many owners don't heed the leash laws, and to me this is just outright disrespect for others that don't want a dog chasing them nipping at their heels, or creating concern if we have kids with us. I do respect the right of a dog owner to have their dog with them on the trail, but I also expect the same level of respect in return by leashing their dog and controlling its behaviour.

Btw- I have a Malamute and they are also on the "list" as a breed linked to dog-bite homicide. I know she is a good dog, but I never take any chances regardless and always keep her on leash. I think at the end of the day, the breed of dog can be a factor, but more importantly trail use related issues are more directly tied to the owners attitude and responsibility level as a dog owner, and ultimately their respect level for others.

My .02


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## Imperial (Jun 9, 2006)

Jayem said:


> On the other hand, I probably wouldn't reach for my gun if I was faced with an agressive dog, I'd just beat it with my bike because that's what I have easily available, although I don't usually have any problem because I'm prepared to beat the living crap out of any dog I encounter, and due to the lack of fear, I've never have a problem with them. Riding away only makes it worse.
> 
> My dog would rip you to peaces if you tried anything,hes like a lion 48kg 5-6 foot tall when he stands,big teef the size of your finger,you would have no chance dude,even if you pulled that gun out my dog would have you round the neck before you got to use it!


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

N10S said:


> I do find it interesting that so many people are ready to defend the Pitbull when the statistics show that they are the number one dog involved in death/homicide related attacks by far, followed by Rottweilers. These are facts taken over a number of years, not heresay. Here is a link to a site with some of those stats:


Also realize that there are far more Pits than any other breed in America. If that were taken into account the stats would look different.

If you want to look at stats, then your far more likely to drown in a 5 gallon bucket of water than get bit by a Pit, and many other rediculous "statistics" can be compiled to make whatever point you want to make.

The FACT is that too many $hitty people own Pits, and they are ruining the breed just like Dobermans in the 80s, Rottweilers in the '90s... its a fad. You need to distinguish human behavior from canine behavior.

The leash issue is another matter entirely and has nothing to do w/ Pits.


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## AKA Monkeybutt (May 9, 2006)

Locoman said:


> Seems like every other day a pitbull kills its owner's child. I guess you have to make some sacrifices to own such a good breed.


It's ignorant statements like this that give pits bad names. I don't know where you're from but I have never see a story of a pit killing an owner's child. You can't just blanket statement pits because it's not the breed it's the owners and how the dog is raised.

Our 80lb + female and the 1 year old male are both great with the whole families kids. Sometimes the kids get sick of the big one giving too many kisses. We take them to Pet Smart, hiking and many other places and there's never been an issue. The only two almost fights the large female has been in is where the other dog started it and bit her first. Both almost fights I had a leash on my dog because I didn't trust the other dog which were both not "high profile" breeds like rots or pits.

Our neighbors also have two pit mixes that are great dogs and have never had issues. Quite a few of my customers have pits and there's never been an issue.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Locoman said:


> Seems like every other day a pitbull kills its owner's child. I guess you have to make some sacrifices to own such a good breed.


Where are the brain police when you need them???

(referring to above your avatar, in case that was too much of a leap for you to figure out...)


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## RobsterCraw (Oct 19, 2004)

You can't cite statistics about dog attacks and expect them to mean anything. Obviously there is no way for the statistics to control for bad owners, or the fact that many owners train their pitbulls and Rottweilers to be aggressive, protective, and/or mean (the latter was not actually bread as a fighting or guard dog despite commmon misconception). Pits may need a stronger owner, more attention, and earlier socialization that most breeds, but often enough the outcome is worth it.

Note: The most popular dog breed in the US is the Labrador Retriever, in its various forms


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

davec113 said:


> If you want to look at stats, then your far more likely to drown in a 5 gallon bucket of water than get bit by a Pit, and many other rediculous "statistics" can be compiled to make whatever point you want to make.


That's the lamest apologist BS I've heard in a long time.


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

From 3 days ago.<--click link.

I didn't post that out of "ignorance" I just happen to remember what I read three days ago...

But I'm sure that was only a first. Oh wait....
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/4758109/detail.html
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/04/MNGCUD3O661.DTL
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/6222319.stm
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/jan/11/pit-bull-attacks-mother-daughter/
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=News&id=3143484
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/23/MNGRODDG2S1.DTL
http://orangecounty.injuryboard.com/toddler-mauled-to-death-by-uncles-pitbull-terrier.php
http://www.topix.net/forum/city/harrisville-ri/TTF9O5AQ6II4QA1G1


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## Imperial (Jun 9, 2006)

My dog dont pick fights,just runs around and is not intresting in fighting unless a dog attacks of course,and thats where some stupid owner with a untrained pitbull or staff has it off a lead on the park and it attacks my big dog and my dog is not ganna have that and has it round the neck and would kill the damn pitbull if i dident drag him off,(yes my dog has pinned a few pitbulls to the ground round the neck and has even out fought a husky)

This is where it gets annoying,i grab my dog from the fight but the stupid owner dont even grab there dog cause they dont know how to,so im dragging my dog away aswell as trying to kick a pitbull staff away from attacking again,it pi$$es me off,most of the owners just have them to make themselfs look big and hard.but liek others have said pitbull's can be very nice dogs if there trained.


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## N10S (Sep 27, 2004)

davec113 said:


> Also realize that there are far more Pits than any other breed in America. If that were taken into account the stats would look different.
> 
> If you want to look at stats, then your far more likely to drown in a 5 gallon bucket of water than get bit by a Pit, and many other rediculous "statistics" can be compiled to make whatever point you want to make.
> 
> ...


You are right on the fact that the number of a specific breed is the difficult thing to identify, and can have an impact on the stats. Here is a excerpt I clipped:

"The primary difficulty in determining which breeds are most dangerous has to do with the floating numerator (i.e., numerator floating without its denominator). It is important that we know not only the percentage of bites from a given breed but also the total number of that breed in the general canine population and the amount of time the dog spends around humans. Such denominator data are unavailable." (James R. Blackman, M.D., J Am Board Fam Pract 11(2):167-169, 1998.)

That supports your comments, but I would also challenge that the Pitbull is the most prominent breed in the US. Where does that info come from? I am not doubting it is possible, but just wondering as I cannot seem to find any dog population by breed stats.

As far as the rest of my post, you know I started the comment on the leash issue "regardless of breed" because I believe its an issue of owner responsibility and respect first and foremost.


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

davec113 said:


> Where are the brain police when you need them???
> 
> (referring to above your avatar, in case that was too much of a leap for you to figure out...)


That was a perfect example of ad hominem. Good show.
Apparently you are the owner of one of these doggies and I hurt your feelings.
You got kids? That's rhetorical since I really don't care. :thumbsup:
Just be sure to keep the dog well fed.

p.s. I'm done w/ this thread.


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

DONT YOU GUYS WATCH THE 'DOG WHISPERER' ON NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC?????


I agree... It all depends on the owner (pack leader) of the dog. If the owner sets RULES, BOUNDARIES, and LIMITATIONS, and practices CALM, ASSERTIVE BEHAVIOR, ANY dog can be a well balanced dog. And thats a proven fact. 

Seriously, that show is the shiznit.


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## Ace1 (Jun 14, 2004)

I have a Staffordshiere Bull Terrior (like English pitbull) and he's an awesome dog. Very chunky but surprisingly mobile!

He's honestly pretty harmless (though all dogs have their moments) but you do have to put up with ignorant people turning up their noses, mothers pickup up children etc.

I really think they're the perfect sized dog though and the best companions. I'd go with one again...


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Locoman said:


> That was a perfect example of ad hominem. Good show.
> Apparently you are the owner of one of these doggies and I hurt your feelings.
> You got kids? That's rhetorical since I really don't care. :thumbsup:
> Just be sure to keep the dog well fed.
> ...


Youre not worth a real argument


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## AKA Monkeybutt (May 9, 2006)

Locoman said:


> From 3 days ago.<--click link.
> 
> I didn't post that out of "ignorance" I just happen to remember what I read three days ago...
> 
> ...


Do a search on labrador attacks and you will find just as many sad stories. For that matter insert any dog name and attack and google it, you'll find many pages of stories on every breed. It's better news when it's a pit though 

Check out this site...http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/AllDogsBite.htm

and this..

http://www.standunited.ca/sourcesforreading/regardlessofbreed.html


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

FloridaFish said:


> Pitbulls can also be a bit stubborn, not the easiest dogs to keep in complete control.


ummm....yeah, like every other dog and HUMAN...


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Ah, so you're telling me that I should just shoot your dog on sight and save myself the trouble. Thanks for the tip.
> 
> BTW, I think it's so cool how you force your dog to wear a big heavy rusty collar. That's just so hip.


GO AWAY!!! nobody likes you here anyways....

you're the hip one with your cool guns and all, you frickin' psycho green beret wannabe...btw...that's not his dog dumbazz...


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Ace1 said:


> I have a Staffordshiere Bull Terrior (like English pitbull) and he's an awesome dog. Very chunky but surprisingly mobile!
> 
> He's honestly pretty harmless (though all dogs have their moments) but you do have to put up with ignorant people turning up their noses, mothers pickup up children etc.
> 
> I really think they're the perfect sized dog though and the best companions. I'd go with one again...


Another fact is that the media reports "Pit Bulls" as American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, English Staffordshire Terriers, Bull Terriers, Presas, Dogo Argentineo, and others that resemble APBTs including mixes of any of these dogs. So, MANY reports of "Pit Bull" attacks are NOT purebred APBTs. It just makes for a better story


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

TNC said:


> Last I heard, freedom of speech and gun ownership are still legal...even on the west coast.


nope...I think people with automatic or semi-automatic guns are stupid...they say they're for hunting...but what kind of talent/skillmanship do you have to hunt an animal with a gun...let alone, one that fires said amount per sec/min...

I think if idiots weren't aloud to have guns...we wouldn't have so much violence...even if that means taking guns from the not so idiotic...because the idiots always seem to find their guns too...


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

Karupshun said:


> people with pitbulls look like douches or drug dealers


sweet stereotyping...:thumbsup:


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

irieness said:


> nope...I think people with automatic or semi-automatic guns are stupid...they say they're for hunting...but what kind of talent/skillmanship do you have to hunt an animal with a gun...let alone, one that fires said amount per sec/min...
> 
> I think if idiots weren't aloud to have guns...we wouldn't have so much violence...even if that means taking guns from the not so idiotic...because the idiots always seem to find their guns too...


I can understand your point... however disarmament has typically been followed by genocide. In the 20th century, hundreds of MILLIONS of people have been executed by their governments. And idiots can get guns if they want to, legal or not.

Its a tough question, because I'm anti-gun and believe violence should only be used to stop genocide, yet its a Pandora's box... we can't effectively take guns away from only the criminals and history has shown a well armed population is a safer population... Look at the Swiss, every citizen is in the Swiss army, they all have guns.

Also, Americans murder far more people with guns than the rest of the world, and youre fooling yourself if you blame this fact on guns. Unfortunately, IT'S US!!!


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## airwreck (Dec 31, 2003)

In the instance where I got bit I blame the owner not the dog, we see lots of gnarly hunting dogs and they are all cool, unless you're a pig  .

Also, I did have to pry the dogs jaws off my leg  , he did not want to let go.


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

davec113 said:


> I can understand your point... however disarmament has typically been followed by genocide. In the 20th century, hundreds of MILLIONS of people have been executed by their governments. And idiots can get guns if they want to, legal or not.
> 
> Its a tough question, because I'm anti-gun and believe violence should only be used to stop genocide, yet its a Pandora's box... we can't effectively take guns away from only the criminals and history has shown a well armed population is a safer population... Look at the Swiss, every citizen is in the Swiss army, they all have guns.
> 
> Also, Americans murder far more people with guns than the rest of the world, and youre fooling yourself if you blame this fact on guns. Unfortunately, IT'S US!!!


yeah, yeah...I know...it's a no win situation...but I can still not like people who own guns...especially ones like ak47s and such...

and I agree with you on Americans being the idiots part...


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## lilbuj (Jun 14, 2006)

*Look into a Weimaraner*

http://www.weimclubamerica.org/
http://www.akc.org/breeds/weimaraner/index.cfm

They would make a great trail dog. They love to run and play. And the ones I have been exposed to have been sweet and loving as well.

I personally have Rottweilers.

But do not take them on the trail. They have something about tires and wheels an like to go after my bikes.


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

davec113 said:


> Youre not worth a real argument


believe me...you are very right...


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## be350ka (Dec 17, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Ah, so you're telling me that I should just shoot your dog on sight and save myself the trouble. Thanks for the tip.
> 
> BTW, I think it's so cool how you force your dog to wear a big heavy rusty collar. That's just so hip.


Yea, that dog look absolutely thrilled to be wearing thar freaking chain around his neck.

I think this exact situation is why a lot of people think poorly of a particular breed. When people make their dog out to be this rough and tough "thing", people do notice.


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## zachdank (Jun 15, 2005)

Jayem said:


> Ah, so you're telling me that I should just shoot your dog on sight and save myself the trouble. Thanks for the tip..


Broham, i told you the first time. I will stick the gun up your as$, and Frank will stick the bike up your goofy as$. Get it straight. It's a no win situation for you. Now go make me a sandwich.


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## be350ka (Dec 17, 2004)

irieness said:


> sweet stereotyping...:thumbsup:


Yea, kinda like your quote saying that all people who have guns are idiots.....


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

Leaving the other BS out of it......(I'm sure no one read that New Yorker article I posted earlier). I still wouldn't own a pit for trail riding. 

I realize DaveC has one that he takes on rides (Dave, you can milk the pic of him running in front of you for years to come!!), but that's not the norm for pits from what I've seen. I think you've got to look at a breed that is very trainable, has good endurance, won't freak other trail users out and will do well off leash (e.g. low prey drive, etc.). 

The working/herding breeds are probably the best true trail dogs I've seen. Border collies, australian shepards, blue/red healers, etc. have amazing stamina, are smarter than hell and are very trainable. I agree that Ridgebacks can make great trail dogs. One thing though.....Ridgebacks have a HIGH prey drive (they're bred to chase lions) and they'll chase deer, rabbits, anything really. I keep my dogs on leash anywhere near roads because if they were to see an animal, they'll take off without any regard for cars.

As mentioned, weimareiners (sp?) have incredible endurance and are faster than hell, but holy shite, those dogs have some energy!! We've got a good buddy with one that rides with us a bunch and it'd simply be too much for me......that dog is bouncing off the walls 24/7!! I know my limits and that breed is just too high energy for me.

I still stand by getting a rescue. We got our Rhodie from the Rhodesian Ridgeback rescue organization and our lab/dane through another shelter locally (both originally found through petfinder.com).... Lots of good dogs out there that need homes.....

EBX


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## zachdank (Jun 15, 2005)

be350ka said:


> Bla bla bla bla..:


Did you say something? Or are you just talking out of your anus? That dog fiends to play with 200 pound tractor wheels. That chain doesn't phase him fool. Nice speculation though.:thumbsup:


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

No offense but the clowns at most ANIMAL SERVICE dept. basically call a dog if good sized, short haired and smooth coated a PIT MIX!!!! I know have worked in the animal industry for over 12 years. I live in SLO and the highest % of dog bites around here comes form herding breeds.


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

Ace1 said:


> I have a Staffordshiere Bull Terrior (like English pitbull) and he's an awesome dog. Very chunky but surprisingly mobile!
> 
> He's honestly pretty harmless (though all dogs have their moments) but you do have to put up with ignorant people turning up their noses, mothers pickup up children etc.
> 
> I really think they're the perfect sized dog though and the best companions. I'd go with one again...


Here is a pic of our AMSTAF
It was scanned with my printer so looks bad!


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## X-Vert (Jan 22, 2004)

*Had to chime in...*

You got kids? That's rhetorical since I really don't care. :thumbsup:

...don't appreciate THAT comment.


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## Neen (Sep 27, 2004)

EBX: I read the article. Good stuff, everyone should read it. To the OP, your best choice would probably be a mutt. Go to www.petfinder.com and search by size in your location and see what comes up. Lots of beautiful dogs out there just waiting for a home (and mutts GENERALLY have better health since purebreds can be way overbred these days). 
I adopted my first dog through a breed specific rescue (they got her out of the humane society). I adopted my 2nd from that same humane society. Think they don't have purebreds at the pound? Take a look. They had 10 Siberian Huskies (I counted because thats what I was looking for), bunch of other breeds - Goldens, Labs, Shepards, Retrievers, all the breeds people are familiar with.


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## Wadsworth McStackton (Nov 15, 2004)

Karupshun said:


> jeez, if you want a dog that can run, and one that isn't going to freak out and eat a baby
> 
> get a border collie, they'll tire you out long before you wear them down, they are incredibly intelligent and easy to train, excellent kids&people dogs, and readily available at the spca
> 
> people with pitbulls look like douches or drug dealers


You're an idiot. Educate yourself a little better on the subject so you don't look like a douche.:madman:


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

ebxtreme said:


> Leaving the other BS out of it......(I'm sure no one read that New Yorker article I posted earlier). I still wouldn't own a pit for trail riding.
> 
> I realize DaveC has one that he takes on rides (Dave, you can milk the pic of him running in front of you for years to come!!), but that's not the norm for pits from what I've seen. I think you've got to look at a breed that is very trainable, has good endurance, won't freak other trail users out and will do well off leash (e.g. low prey drive, etc.).
> 
> ...


Agree with that list of working dogs.

Border Collies and Australians are very capable running/biking trail dogs (plus they are smart and obedient).

Has anybody got a "retired" (ex-racer) Greyhound? I wonder if they can handle long easy rides (or are they just sprinters). They seem to have a nice layed-back disposition...


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## proxy (Oct 19, 2006)

*What A Shame........*

It would appear that the OP actually wanted to know about choosing a trail dog, and I believe that most here were trying to aid in the posters choice of an OFF LEASH TRAIL DOG, and all that that entails...........

However, a couple of things are evident by the posts in this thread.

1. A few of the people posting must live at home with parents (and thus don't own homes or property to be at risk) and are clearly unfamiliar with HO insurance regulations & and specifically liability issues surrounding dog ownership and dog bite liability.

2. Clearly have no idea what it takes to have total control in working with a dog (i.e. verbal and nonverbal command control......including to protect AND RELEASE ON COMMAND),which takes YEARS OF TRAINING....TRUST ME! The fact is that certain breeds (genetic traits) are simply better suited for this type of work. Instilling the confidence that his or her animal is safe in any off leash situation (there are always other people. pets and wildlife which will be encountered) takes a ton of work. THERE IS A REASON THAT LE & MILITARY CHOOSE PARTICULAR BREEDS, and it has to do with many factors which as I stated in my earlier post are listed on any French Ring or Schutzhund club site .

3. Some obnoxious posters cant seem to recognize that their very posts are incendiary and are making the very point that every reactionary journalist makes ....."Pit Bulls are Evil"......which is a tragic injustice. They are not EVIL (as I have stated before....and I don't own one). What I mean specifically is that posts degenerating the thread into discussions of gun ownership:madman: , gun violence:madman: , animal abuse:madman: , what incredibly tough people the posters are:madman: , "my dog can kick your dogs ass" :madman: and etc. ALL ARE CHILDISH POSTS which demonstrate the typical knee jerk reactions surrounding the breed (in other words a thread on Retrievers would not have attracted such incendiary posts in it). Consequently, someone scanning through the thread is treated to watching a discussion of the appropriateness of pit bulls for off leash trail work degenerate into..... well a bunch of adolescent hogwash. These posts IMO do more harm!

The breed is not EVIL, but it is not (on average) well suited for off leash work. This certainly does not mean they aren't great pets or family protectors. However, there are breeds and mixes that lend themselves to training for off leash work (and all that entails, which is much more than walking alone in an empty park) much more readily than others, and THIS BREED IS NOT one of them.

For those of you who are tempted to post about how tough you are, please click on the link provided, as long as you can meet the qualifications, WE REALLY NEED TOUGH PEOPLE LIKE YOU......getting good decoys is tough!
https://www.ringsport.org/decoyguidebook.htm

King doing his thing....


Why good decoys are tough......



I would never let any dog I own off leash in public unless I was absolutely confident that his or her attention is 100% focused on me and my commands (and fortunately I am). There are just too many risks, and not just to other dogs, wildlife and people, but to your pet as well, it is your responsibility to keep your pet safe from harm and others safe from your pet. Please choose wisely for off leash work and DO THE TRAINING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And of course save a life and get a rescue!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

irieness said:


> GO AWAY!!! nobody likes you here anyways....
> 
> you're the hip one with your cool guns and all, you frickin' psycho green beret wannabe...btw...that's not his dog dumbazz...


No, not a wannabe, I was in the army.

What's next, you start crying?


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## mzungo (Sep 14, 2004)

By Ian Herbert
Published: 02 January 2007

A pit bull terrier has killed a five-year-old girl and seriously injured her grandmother. Police are investigating 

Ellie Lawrenson was found bleeding to death in the living room of her grandmother's home in St Helens, Merseyside. A post-mortem examination revealed she died of "severe head and neck injuries", police said last night.

Ellie was being looked after by her grandmother, Jackie Simpson, while her parents went out to celebrate New Year's Eve. 


not only in the US


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## RobsterCraw (Oct 19, 2004)

Ha ha,
I've done that decoy thing for the K9 handlers back in the day. Fun stuff. Cool dogs. I'd agree with you a good bit proxy, but when working with working dogs, it seems that the whole off lease issue is a bigger deal. A police/military K9 has to be trained to bite as well as let go. It needs to know where to bite and when. All my dog ever needed to know about biting is that she'd have been in deep **** if she ever even thought about it. And it was never a problem. While a pit, with it's overprotectiveness can be a poor dog for off-lease, and yes any dog can be a problem if their not thouroughly well trained, it doesn't take years to get a pet dog to know not to bite or chase children. It doen't even need to be 100%. Some off lease dogs are even delightfully free spirited. This isn't a problem unless the dog is prone to be aggressive or break the "rules." Like running out into streets. By the age of 1 my dog would stop dead at every intersection (even when at a full sprint unless I said otherwise) when I took her for runs, but back at the house, if I told her to come to me, she'd just look at me like I was crazy.
I remember the coolest trail dog I ever saw was this hiker's dog (some type of blue coated spitz breed). as we passed the owner ripping this flowy, fast single track, the dog just peeled off and ran in front of us down the trails, really fast. When we got done, it just took off back up the hill to rejoin the owner. Right then, I really wanted that dog.

Come to think of it though, I think people who are confident, unafraid, and just plain old love dogs (like me) get bit a hell of a lot less than people who are afraid. Dogs, as social creatures, respond to the behavior and body language of those around them.

PS: I train Chihuahuas to go for the eyes


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

IMO, the only good off leash trail dog is one that the owner has ABSOLUTE voice command over, and that the dog is allways in range of that command. I have been accosted by every fricken breed of dog [and owner] there is, so it's not the dog, it's the owner. "Oh, don't worry, fido is friendly" they say. Yea, to the owner it is. IMO, dogs have no place on well trafficed trails. If they're not biting you, they're running right out in front of you at the wrong place and time. I started carrying pepper spray a few years ago, in defense of both the aggressive dog AND the ignorant owner. If I had to kill a dog to defend myself on the trail, I wouldn't hesitate in the least.
Yes, I like dogs. Well behaved, trained and predictable. Most aren't.
TNC, wouldn't a handgun be easier to manage on a VPP bike?


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## proxy (Oct 19, 2006)

RobsterCraw said:


> Ha ha,
> I've done that decoy thing for the K9 handlers back in the day. Fun stuff. Cool dogs. I'd agree with you a good bit proxy, .......


I applaud you sir! For both having the giant balls to decoy, and for being a responsible pet owner!!!!!!!!! Tell me the truth, didn't decoying the larger dogs scare the crap out of ya at least a little (having never done it myself with a dog other than my own for early bit training)?

Hats off sir


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## RobsterCraw (Oct 19, 2004)

It was only a little scary the first time. I'm really overly comfortable around dogs. Once I figured out that the dogs would bite whatever extremity I presented (arm) I knew that as long as I offered the wrapped arm nicely, they weren't gonna chomp on anything else. With pet dogs that nip when they are being overly playful, I always show em whose boss, not by yelling, but by leaving my hand in their jaws and make a fist thats hard for them to get leverage on (of course a real bite is another story). All my freinds' dogs know they can play rough with me but not anybody else. I grew up wrestling my newfoundland.


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## RobsterCraw (Oct 19, 2004)

Renegade said:


> TNC, wouldn't a handgun be easier to manage on a VPP bike?


Handguns are more for FSR linkage.

As far as the errupting gun debate, I'd like to make it clear to everyone that noone is going to be converted to your perspective here. The best you can do is learn to understand the perspectives of others (that doesn't mean you have to appreciate it, or consider it valid).
Me being ex-military, I would like to keep up my skills on the range. Losing hard won abilities at anything is frustrating, and sometimes downright embarrasing. I'm not big on gun ownership, but thats pretty much what I need to do if I want to practice without re-upping. Of course here in Switzerland gun ownership is not much of an issue. Gun violence is nearly non existent (not because of gun ownership but because of a variety of political/social/economic factors). Even I can own a gun here, and I'm on a class B one year at a time temporary residence permit. Even in the states, I don't sweat people that own guns/love guns/collect guns persay - although I don't find it to be a particularly healty or attractive obsession, I'm always more worried about the guy that just wants to shoot people, even if he doesn't have a gun, cause he could get one. Or if guns are hard to come by, he could decide that he'd rather stab/blow-up/poison people. If old Jimbo wants to pretend he's the 5th member of the A-Team, I may find it a little disturbing, but as long as he's doing it at the practice range, I'm not inclined to intervene.
I guess to be honest. I really would feel safer if noone was allowed to own guns, except for me of course. (and that is inherently the problem). Nobody should have nuclear warheads, but I think it'd make a great conversation piece in my livingroom. So many lively discussions about second-strike capabilities and the like. Of course, I wouldn't have second strike capabilities by just having one in the livingroom. I'd need a second one in the kitchen.
But seriously, If I'm spending my days on the wrong side of the horn of africa, I'd like to own a gun, but in a low crime area, with a stable liberal (not that kind of liberal) democracy, the presence of a gun is more of a liability than a security blanket. If i lived alone and noone ever visited me, no big deal, but I wouldn't trust my roommate with my toothpaste, let alone a gun.

Final word: Dogs are cooler than guns.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

Irie, do you have that strong a phobia about guns, or are we just playin' around here? No flame...honest question.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

RobsterCraw said:


> As far as the errupting gun debate, I'd like to make it clear to everyone that noone is going to be converted to your perspective here. The best you can do is learn to understand the perspectives of others (that doesn't mean you have to appreciate it, or consider it valid).
> .


Robstercraw, I'm just checking with you here, because you quoted me in your post; are you refering to me with the above statement? I didn't think so, as I'm not debating guns, just dogs.


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## Imperial (Jun 9, 2006)

proxy said:


> .........
> 
> 2. Clearly have no idea what it takes to have total control in working with a dog (i.e. verbal and nonverbal command control......including to protect AND RELEASE ON COMMAND),which takes YEARS OF TRAINING....TRUST ME
> [QUOTEproxy].........
> ...


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## Imperial (Jun 9, 2006)

QUOTE=proxy].........

2. Clearly have no idea what it takes to have total control in working with a dog (i.e. verbal and nonverbal command control......including to protect AND RELEASE ON COMMAND),which takes YEARS OF TRAINING....TRUST ME
[QUOTEproxy].........

All the dogs ive owned(5),(1 german shepard,2 mongrals,1 colley and 1 staff pitbull cross) have never taken years to train,they know everything by the time there 1 and a half,its not just about how you train them it helps to have other older and wiser dogs that can guide the young ones to do things the right way,



proxy said:


> .........
> 
> I would never let any dog I own off leash in public unless I was absolutely confident that his or her attention is 100% focused on me and my commands (and fortunately I am). There are just too many risks, and not just to other dogs, wildlife and people, but to your pet as well, it is your responsibility to keep your pet safe from harm and others safe from your pet.
> 
> ...


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## Zonk0u (Jun 3, 2004)

this is funny. and I know every pitt owner is like the ones here. They'll vehemently preach up and down about how pittbulls are sweet and loving dogs. They'll take it to the grave. Then their kid gets their arm chewed off by their perfect 10 year old blue, and suddenly their tune changes.

sure you can discredit all these reports of pittbulls attacking people, and sure it's the owner, but do you find it coincidence that it's a pitt in all these stories? You never hear of a golden retreiver in one of these stories. Is it that pittbull owners are in general worse owners than any other dog?


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## RobsterCraw (Oct 19, 2004)

Renegade said:


> Robstercraw, I'm just checking with you here, because you quoted me in your post; are you refering to me with the above statement? I didn't think so, as I'm not debating guns, just dogs.


of course not, I quoted you to seize a stupid joke opportunity. Gun debates, like pitbull debates, never get anywhere.


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## zachdank (Jun 15, 2005)

Zonk0u said:


> this is funny. and I know every pitt owner is like the ones here. They'll vehemently preach up and down about how pittbulls are sweet and loving dogs. They'll take it to the grave. Then their kid gets their arm chewed off by their perfect 10 year old blue, and suddenly their tune changes.
> 
> sure you can discredit all these reports of pittbulls attacking people, and sure it's the owner, but do you find it coincidence that it's a pitt in all these stories? You never hear of a golden retreiver in one of these stories. Is it that pittbull owners are in general worse owners than any other dog?


My pit will gladley chew your arm off, and i have no problem with that.


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## coma13 (Sep 3, 2005)

Zonk0u said:


> this is funny. and I know every pitt owner is like the ones here. They'll vehemently preach up and down about how pittbulls are sweet and loving dogs. They'll take it to the grave. Then their kid gets their arm chewed off by their perfect 10 year old blue, and suddenly their tune changes.
> 
> sure you can discredit all these reports of pittbulls attacking people, and sure it's the owner, but do you find it coincidence that it's a pitt in all these stories? You never hear of a golden retreiver in one of these stories. Is it that pittbull owners are in general worse owners than any other dog?


A golden retriever doesn't make for a very good news story.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

zachdank said:


> My pit will gladley chew your arm off, and i have no problem with that.


Compensating for something?


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## AKA Monkeybutt (May 9, 2006)

Zonk0u said:


> this is funny. and I know every pitt owner is like the ones here. They'll vehemently preach up and down about how pittbulls are sweet and loving dogs. They'll take it to the grave. Then their kid gets their arm chewed off by their perfect 10 year old blue, and suddenly their tune changes.
> 
> sure you can discredit all these reports of pittbulls attacking people, and sure it's the owner, but do you find it coincidence that it's a pitt in all these stories? You never hear of a golden retreiver in one of these stories. Is it that pittbull owners are in general worse owners than any other dog?


So many people without experience are experts here.

Here's about every breed and related attacks..http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/AllDogsBite.htm


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## zachdank (Jun 15, 2005)

Jayem said:


> Compensating for something?


That would be you and your big guns. Nothing scarier than a kook in a rasberry berret running around the trails with his old armyguns.:yawn:


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

zachdank said:


> My pit will gladley chew your arm off, and i have no problem with that.


Compensating for something?


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## zachdank (Jun 15, 2005)

Jayem said:


> Compensating for something?


You are like a broken record. Did you make my sandwich yet?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

zachdank said:


> That would be you and your big guns. Nothing scarier than a kook in a rasberry berret running around the trails with his old armyguns.:yawn:


Well, you're the one that feels the need to tell everyone how big and bad your "dog" is. If it makes you feel special, then I guess that may help you get through the day, but I'd advise you to keep it to yourself or go and see a shrink. How many people do you need to tell how big and bad your dog is? Do you have anything else in your life, or is the dog it? Do you ever feel any sexual urges towards your dog?


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## zachdank (Jun 15, 2005)

Jayem said:


> Do you ever feel any sexual urges towards your dog?


 I don't have any sexual feelings toward him, but if we came across you and your big guns on the trail, my dog would rape you, and i would laugh.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Zonk0u said:


> Is it that pittbull owners are in general worse owners than any other dog?


On average, yes. Pits are the new fad in "tough guy" dogs. It used to be Rotts, before that Dobies... For any here who are old enough, do you remember all the hype about Pits in the 80s? No?... Right, there wasn't any. 

Another issue with bad owners is that Pits were never meant to be guard dogs, and unless youre a dog-whisperer quality trainer youre better off with another breed to serve this purpose. Too many idiots are training their Pits to be human aggressive, and this behavior used to be dealt with by euthanizing any dog who naturally showed this tendancy. Now it is being encouraged by some. There needs to be a crime made to fit these breeders and trainers, and they should be responsible for the harm they are doing. The fact is Pits need an experienced dog owner and trainer. Without that things can go wrong, however they are not predisposed to attacking people.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

zachdank said:


> I don't have any sexual feelings toward him, but if we came across you and your big guns on the trail, my dog would rape you, and i would laugh.


Thanks for answering my question, you undoubtedly do have some sort of sexual frustration with your dog, manifesting itself in rape fantasy.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

RobsterCraw said:


> Handguns are more for FSR linkage.
> 
> As far as the errupting gun debate, I'd like to make it clear to everyone that noone is going to be converted to your perspective here. The best you can do is learn to understand the perspectives of others (that doesn't mean you have to appreciate it, or consider it valid).
> Me being ex-military, I would like to keep up my skills on the range. Losing hard won abilities at anything is frustrating, and sometimes downright embarrasing. I'm not big on gun ownership, but thats pretty much what I need to do if I want to practice without re-upping. Of course here in Switzerland gun ownership is not much of an issue. Gun violence is nearly non existent (not because of gun ownership but because of a variety of political/social/economic factors). Even I can own a gun here, and I'm on a class B one year at a time temporary residence permit. Even in the states, I don't sweat people that own guns/love guns/collect guns persay - although I don't find it to be a particularly healty or attractive obsession, I'm always more worried about the guy that just wants to shoot people, even if he doesn't have a gun, cause he could get one. Or if guns are hard to come by, he could decide that he'd rather stab/blow-up/poison people. If old Jimbo wants to pretend he's the 5th member of the A-Team, I may find it a little disturbing, but as long as he's doing it at the practice range, I'm not inclined to intervene.
> ...


Best reason to own a military type weapon: In case my government tries to take it away from me 

Survival in some armegeddon type scenario or just for fun are ok, but those guys who actually want to find an excuse to use one are scary and need professional help.


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## zachdank (Jun 15, 2005)

Jayem said:


> Thanks for answering my question, you undoubtedly do have some sort of sexual frustration with your dog, manifesting itself in rape fantasy.


Whatever floats your boat. You are the one who can't stop talking about sex and dogs. I think we know who has the problem. Chicken fycker.


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## jakedank (Oct 13, 2006)

mzungo said:


> By Ian Herbert
> Published: 02 January 2007
> 
> A pit bull terrier has killed a five-year-old girl and seriously injured her grandmother. Police are investigating
> ...


Punish the deed not the breed!


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## jakedank (Oct 13, 2006)

TNC said:


> Last I heard, freedom of speech and gun ownership are still legal...even on the west coast.


Not if your a dip Sh!t threating to kill someones dog with your big bad gun that you dont know or have never met buddy


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## zachdank (Jun 15, 2005)

jakedank said:


> Punish the deed not the breed!


True dat.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Interesting Irie.*



irieness said:


> nope...I think people with automatic or semi-automatic guns are stupid...they say they're for hunting...but what kind of talent/skillmanship do you have to hunt an animal with a gun...let alone, one that fires said amount per sec/min...
> 
> I think if idiots weren't aloud to have guns...we wouldn't have so much violence...even if that means taking guns from the not so idiotic...because the idiots always seem to find their guns too...


Now I believe you to be a reasonably rational personal as a rule, and you know quite well that making such a sweeping generalization in not rational. My guns are not for hunting, and I have never used that lame excuse. They're for people...and I'm not even in the people killing business anymore. They are fun to shoot, and they are useful for shooting the occasionally problematic varmint...rabid **** one night that was going after my dog in the middle of the night...I live in the country. But in reality, if things ever go to pot in this country or world, I don't want to be the schmuck standing around holding his Johnson while the "truly bad" folk amongst us try to take advantage. No, I don't lay awake at night in fear of this happening, and I'm not a paranoid loon. But just in case...

Now Irie, when I posted that obviously comedic pic of my bike and gun, it was meant purely as a joke. Yes, I'd shoot an attacking pit bull or any other large aggressive dog in an instant under the right circumstances, but I'm a dog lover myself, and I think most dogs succumb to a good dose of challenge and bluff when they try to "jump bad" on people. In fact my biggest beef with any dog on bike trails that are used by more than a handful of bikers at any given moment lies with the darned things getting in the way. Most of them I've encountered run willy-nilly everywhere at anytime. I've seem some good ones, but they are the minority.


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

I think a Chinese Crested would make a great traildog.


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## Imperial (Jun 9, 2006)

jorgemonkey said:


> I think a Chinese Crested would make a great traildog.


:ihih: :ihih: :ihih:


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

Well Jakedink, if you'll put down your doobie for a second and take a breath of fresh air maybe you'd see that it was an obvious joke...and read my more indepth comment on Irie's last post. I don't know how much you know any of the folks on this forum, but I tend to interact more with humor than with vitriole. That pic is an absurd joke, and anyone who knows even a little about me would realize it. Calm down before you hyperventilate and lose your buzz.


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## HANKg (Mar 20, 2006)

This thread pretty closely resembles the ongoing thoughts I've had on this subject. There's a lot of people, with information, but wading through the facts on pits is difficult. 

I'll probably end up going with a rescue dog...partially cause it's a good thing to do and mostly cause I'm in college. 

As for the riders who say they would never ride on the trail without a dog on the leash: does this mean that you have the dog leashed while you ride or it stays at home?


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## snowskilz (Feb 19, 2004)

i would suggest a pointer(gsp, weimeraner, english, vizsla) or a boxxer. I own 2 pointers and my buddy owns a boxxer. We have had great success downhilling with them. My other buddy has a rhodi and its a great trail dog but can loose direction quite easy. Additionaly another friend had a huge airendale terrier and that thing was horrible at downhill. I also have a lab that is a great trail dog but doesnt keep up on the downhills. And well you are asking about a dog in a downhill forum.


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## proxy (Oct 19, 2006)

HANKg said:


> I'll probably end up going with a rescue dog...partially cause it's a good thing to do and mostly cause I'm in college. As for the riders who say they would never ride on the trail without a dog on the leash: does this mean that you have the dog leashed while you ride or it stays at home?


Well you (everyone) should get a rescue when its possible. If you want the dog to do primarily off leash work (which I've gone into ad nauseam in my previous posts) IMO try to focus on the best breed (mix) for your specific circumstances. If you don't have endless amounts of time to train, then you want a smart fast learner, quick to please, with high ball drive (easier to train), and without certain propensities that make the training more difficult (or could be a risk when encountering an unforeseen event). I again would focus on Working/Hearding Breeds (many of such breeds were mentioned in others posts). Since your going to ride trails with your dog, you will definitely not be focused on he/she, so you need a dog that will be 100% focused on you! Even if you find the perfect dog for your desired task, off leashing does require temperament & training time.

Although I don't have one, a Belgian Malinois would be an outstanding choice for this task (I have a Beauceron, a Shepherd/Wolf, and a Boxer (all from Rescues)). The Beauceron would also be a great choice but they rarely come up for adoption.

The Malinois link is bellow and if you are lucky enough to locate one, many of these dogs will have been quite well trained (it is currently the #1 LE dog of choice for among many reasons it never gets tired)!

http://www.malinoisrescue.org/

Best of luck, and it appears there a couple of adoptable dogs there (not sure if those particular guys are suited for off leashing) but almost every breed has a breed specific rescue network, Sometimes just networking with these people can be a great asset (I was looking to rescue a Malinois & was called by the ASPCA regarding what became my wonderful Shepherd/Wolf. Start web contacting these rescue networks and you will find the right match for you and will save a life


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jakedank said:


> Not if your a dip Sh!t threating to kill someones dog with your big bad gun that you dont know or have never met buddy


kind of like a dip sh*t that can't take a joke.

you actually believe TNC was serious?


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

proxy said:


> Well you (everyone) should get a rescue when its possible. If you want the dog to do primarily off leash work (which I've gone into ad nauseam in my previous posts) IMO try to focus on the best breed (mix) for your specific circumstances. If you don't have endless amounts of time to train, then you want a smart fast learner, quick to please, with high ball drive (easier to train), and without certain propensities that make the training more difficult (or could be a risk when encountering an unforeseen event). I again would focus on Working/Hearding Breeds (many of such breeds were mentioned in others posts). Since your going to ride trails with your dog, you will definitely not be focused on he/she, so you need a dog that will be 100% focused on you! Even if you find the perfect dog for your desired task, off leashing does require temperament & training time.
> 
> Although I don't have one, a Belgian Malinois would be an outstanding choice for this task (I have a Beauceron, a Shepherd/Wolf, and a Boxer (all from Rescues)). The Beauceron would also be a great choice but they rarely come up for adoption.
> 
> ...


The Malinois is considered to have a very high prey drive, some say the highest of any breed. It is also bred for protection, so you should really be dedicated and experienced to even consider it. These dogs are very energetic and can be irritating to some (because their energy is focused on the owner), so I'd suggest you get to know their personality first. I'm not sure a Malinois or GSD will be any easier to deal with than a Pit...


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## proxy (Oct 19, 2006)

davec113 said:


> The Malinois is considered to have a very high prey drive, some say the highest of any breed. It is also bred for protection, so you should really be dedicated and experienced to even consider it. These dogs are very energetic and can be irritating to some (because their energy is focused on the owner), so I'd suggest you get to know their personality first. I'm not sure a Malinois or GSD will be any easier to deal with than a Pit...


Concur on the drive, energy and focus, but isn't that what would make it ideal for this application? Anyway.....I also concur on training which has been my moniker in all my posts I was just thinking of a way to circumvent some of that by perhaps steering the OP to a previously vetted and trained dog (which happens to more available in LE & Military animals of choice, perhaps due to gun shyness or some other deficiency for deployment but still a great dog). Of course, if the OP was lucky enough to adopt a trained dog (I was once), it would be he or she needing/getting the training All things being equal, If I was someone riding in the area the OP was with his/her off leash dog, I would rather have it that way than the reverse (which seems to be the reason for so many bite stories anyway). Just a thought, but there are lots of dogs needing good homes and I agree that regardless of the breed you gotta put the time in (that is if your a responsible owner who doesn't want a lawsuit or just trouble


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## Easy_J (Apr 5, 2004)

man, what a long thread, but bikes and dogs are something folks are very pasoniate about, so its understandable. heres a couple of points from 

Daveee113 and zackdank, those are some amazing looking dogs.

Demo 9, those actually look like curr dogs (black mouth currs to be exact) Im not sure where you live or if your familiar with the breed, but they are typically southern dogs and used for hog hunting, a lot of the time they are mixed with pitts to give them the extra gameness required for hogging. 

First off let me say that I love pitts and currently own two. My cousin also breeds them and hog hunts with them. I do not think that they would make a good trail dog, tho. I have never seen any of my pitts turn down a fight, even if they dont instigate it, they will defend themselves when challanged. About a year ago I was walking mine (1 pitt, 1 pitt mix) on their leashes down the block, some of my nighbors were haveing some type of cookout in their front yard and had two big ass labs running loose, one of the labs ran across the yard and made a run at my dogs, when my pitt got in his ass, they acted like I was in the wrong and asked if he had ever attacked other dogs (WTF?) My point is that you will get the blame even if your dog is guilty or not. I dont think its fair to put your dog in a postion of being off leash and not expecting him to react when someone elses dog challanges him or makes a move on him. MOST pitts will throw down given the opportunity, I think a lot of it depends on the breeder. My first pitt was from fighting stock(long story),he was a great family dog, but loved to fight, my current pitt is from show stock and is far more doscile. With that said, I have never seen a more loyal dog than a pitt bull and cant imagine owning anything else.


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## Godzilla (Mar 31, 2005)

Holy shit - better not get a pomeranian:

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/2006/April/pitbullattackedbypomeranion0406.pdf


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## Zonk0u (Jun 3, 2004)

zachdank said:


> My pit will gladley chew your arm off, and i have no problem with that.


Thats great I'll play baseball with it's head with the crowbar I pull out of my trunk.


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## Zonk0u (Jun 3, 2004)

AKA Monkeybutt said:


> So many people without experience are experts here.
> 
> Here's about every breed and related attacks..http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/AllDogsBite.htm


wow, what a credible unbiased source.

I'll stick with first hand experience thanks.


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## Zonk0u (Jun 3, 2004)

jakedank said:


> Not if your a dip Sh!t threating to kill someones dog with your big bad gun that you dont know or have never met buddy


almost as *******ted as threatening to sick your dog on someone's arm, or anus, and laughing about it.

sorry but if I had a gun, and a pittbull owner sicked his pitt on me, I'd not only drop the pitt, I'd come after the owner next.


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## Neen (Sep 27, 2004)

I think Easy J made some excellant points about if you have the pitt, its always going to get blamed, regardless of what occured. Especially if the dog is loose. Last summer I had my dog (husky) at Plattekill, we were walking into the lodge and a loose dog (pitt) came from inside the lodge and got into the vestibule with us and it happened so fast, I don't know what happened but my dog got backed into a corner by the pitt (my dog was leashed). Now the owner ran right over and picked his dog up and took him out. Everyone (except me, and it was my dog who was involved) was like Oh it figures, pitt bull. Yeah well it could happen with any breed and I know my dog can be aggressive when she's on leash and another dog (especially a loose dog)comes up to her. I couldn't even tell you how it happened because it caught me so off-guard. Anyway, my point is, the Pitt is ALWAYS going to get blamed and you'd really be putting your dog at risk allowing him to run loose in the woods.


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

Zonk0u said:


> almost as *******ted as threatening to sick your dog on someone's arm, or anus, and laughing about it.
> 
> sorry but if I had a gun, and a pittbull owner sicked his pitt on me, I'd not only drop the pitt, I'd come after the owner next.


no one was threatening to sick their pit on anyone unless they were threatening to shoot the pit for just being a pit and being on the trail...

just cuz you don't like the breed doesn't mean you can't pull your head out of your azz...

I'd beat the crap out of a pit and his owner too if someone decided to sick their dog, any dog for that matter, on me...use you brain not your testosterone...

and my dogs are like my kids, cuz I'm not into over populating the earth...so someone threatening my dog for just being the breed it is...is asking for some trouble...believe me, if someone harms my dogs for no reason, they've got worse things on their plate than worrying about some pit...they better be watching out for the pissed off, ready to kill, about to go psycho on their ass mama of the dog...


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

TNC said:


> Well Jakedink, if you'll put down your doobie for a second and take a breath of fresh air maybe you'd see that it was an obvious joke...and read my more indepth comment on Irie's last post. I don't know how much you know any of the folks on this forum, but I tend to interact more with humor than with vitriole. That pic is an absurd joke, and anyone who knows even a little about me would realize it. Calm down before you hyperventilate and lose your buzz.


when are you frickin' ******** gonna realize that herb doesn't make you stupid?? I have a 4.0 with a biology major...and I know I smoke more than little bro Jakedank...


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

TNC said:


> Now I believe you to be a reasonably rational personal as a rule, and you know quite well that making such a sweeping generalization in not rational. My guns are not for hunting, and I have never used that lame excuse. They're for people...and I'm not even in the people killing business anymore. They are fun to shoot, and they are useful for shooting the occasionally problematic varmint...rabid **** one night that was going after my dog in the middle of the night...I live in the country. But in reality, if things ever go to pot in this country or world, I don't want to be the schmuck standing around holding his Johnson while the "truly bad" folk amongst us try to take advantage. No, I don't lay awake at night in fear of this happening, and I'm not a paranoid loon. But just in case...
> 
> Now Irie, when I posted that obviously comedic pic of my bike and gun, it was meant purely as a joke. Yes, I'd shoot an attacking pit bull or any other large aggressive dog in an instant under the right circumstances, but I'm a dog lover myself, and I think most dogs succumb to a good dose of challenge and bluff when they try to "jump bad" on people. In fact my biggest beef with any dog on bike trails that are used by more than a handful of bikers at any given moment lies with the darned things getting in the way. Most of them I've encountered run willy-nilly everywhere at anytime. I've seem some good ones, but they are the minority.


first things first TNC...I totally think you're a cool old geezer  from what I know of you on this site...and I in no way actually wish you to be target practice nor any bodily harm...and I fully understand that pic was a joke...I don't take you as a person to be an animal torturer...when it comes to people saying they're going to harm ANY ANIMAL I get a little pissed off...I am a HUGE animal lover and will do anything to protect ANY animal, including ones that could harm me...so, I just wanted to explain to you that I was not actually pissed at you as a person, but at the comment and the (unfunny to me) joke...

as far as guns go...I also fully realize my wishes of this world to be gun free is unrealistic...there's just too much testosterone in this world to ever be otherwise...I also am aware of your RIGHT to bear arms...I do not agree with this, too many reasons to go into it, but I also think it is a poor and (for lack of better words) stupid choice to be a part of keeping guns in circulation...but there is no need to argue my opinion or yours, as they will both probably never change and that's cool...

as far as keeping a gun to protect yourself, if all hell does break loose...I'm afraid you should maybe reconsider your options and invest in a biochemical war suit and mask or build yourself a nuclear fallout shelter...because the days of Red Dawn are far over my friend...


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

be350ka said:


> Yea, kinda like your quote saying that all people who have guns are idiots.....


reading comprehension...not everyone posesses it...

I said I don't want idiots getting ahold of other peoples' guns, which they somehow always end up doing...not that everyone who has a gun is an idiot....


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Well Irie...*



irieness said:


> when are you frickin' ******** gonna realize that herb doesn't make you stupid?? I have a 4.0 with a biology major...and I know I smoke more than little bro Jakedank...


When someone calls me a dip sh!t because he can't take a joke and has no clue about it being a joke, he can take a little jab over his avatar...or is he that sensitive? And what would being a *******...or not...have anything to do with smoking grass? You think ******** don't smoke grass? What's got you in a knot over my post and pic anyway? If you don't know enough about me by now to realize that was a total joke, then I'm a little surprised. But I'll get over it.


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

TNC said:


> When someone calls me a dip sh!t because he can't take a joke and has no clue about it being a joke, he can take a little jab over his avatar...or is he that sensitive? And what would being a *******...or not...have anything to do with smoking grass? You think ******** don't smoke grass? What's got you in a knot over my post and pic anyway? If you don't know enough about me by now to realize that was a total joke, then I'm a little surprised. But I'll get over it.


lmao...you can jab all you want...so can I...I always make fun of you being a *******...I have actually smoked herb with a lot of ********...and you should read my other post to you...and let's just say I know that poster quite well and he may be a little protective...

btw...did you go to the beach and get sand in your vagina today??


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*The beach?*



irieness said:


> lmao...you can jab all you want...so can I...I always make fun of you being a *******...I have actually smoked herb with a lot of ********...and you should read my other post to you...and let's just say I know that poster quite well and he may be a little protective...
> 
> btw...did you go to the beach and get sand in your vagina today??


Not today. Last time I went there a bully kicked sand in my face.


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

X-Vert said:


> You got kids? That's rhetorical since I really don't care. :thumbsup:
> 
> ...don't appreciate THAT comment.


Well that was the intent. I was flamed in lieu of a substantive retort to my point and so I replied in kind. In retrospect I wish I didn't "go there", but such is the world of quasi-anonymous forum flame wars.


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## be350ka (Dec 17, 2004)

irieness said:


> reading comprehension...not everyone posesses it...
> 
> I said I don't want idiots getting ahold of other peoples' guns, which they somehow always end up doing...not that everyone who has a gun is an idiot....


I think it was you that said this --->"I think people with automatic or semi-automatic guns are stupid."

I guess I got idiot confused with stupid. My bad.


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

Well thought out post. Thanks for the comments. 

The only other thing I'd like to add is respect for local code in respect to leash laws. The issues that I've had were in multi-user areas where leash laws are in effect but ignored by owners that had no control of their pet.

Again, thanks for the post.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

irieness said:


> I have actually smoked herb with a lot of ********


What an accomplishment. You must be proud.


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## chuckie108 (Jun 26, 2006)

irieness said:


> when are you frickin' ******** gonna realize that herb doesn't make you stupid?? I have a 4.0 with a biology major...and I know I smoke more than little bro Jakedank...


Keep telling yourself that.


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## santaheckler (Jan 31, 2004)

I usually don't post, but figured I'd just make a point or two. 
When one person says that they don't want guns to exist because of the violence caused, isn't that the same as somebody who says they don't want Pitts to exist because of the violence caused? In both cases, both sides ignore the fact (which they often only see in their own arguement) that the OWNER is to blame. 
In the dog case, it is argued that you can't "blame the breed". In other words, you should blame the owner for lack of training etc. 
Then why turn around and blame GUNS? You should blame the OWNER right? For lack of training, etc. Same concept...
If the arguement is to be made that getting rid of guns will reduce gun violence, then isn't it just as true that getting rid of dogs (or Pitts as is the stance in this case) would reduce dog attacks? You have to say yes to that logic. Yet, this is not what either side wants. And thank god, b/c it would not solve the problem. Don't believe me? Read on...
This thread brought up pot smoking too. Has outlawing marijuana eliminated its consumption? No? So, why would one make the arguement that outlawing guns would stop gun violence? Or outlawing dogs (or a specific breed) stop attacks? 
Outlawing certain things only allows the government to hold people accountable under the law, but does not necessarily prevent their existence or occurrance. Please understand that. If it were as easy as making things illegal, then we would have made the world perfect long ago! 
Just to make guns the example here: Remember, if you look at history anywhere at anytime, the world has ALWAYS been violent. Guns have not increased that violence, just changed its method. Don't believe me? Check out some Roman history. They didn't have guns. Check out medeval England. Yep, no guns yet! 
That is b/c violent PEOPLE still exist! And they won't stop simply b/c they don't have a gun...or an attack dog! 
In closing, I just want to say that before insulting others b/c they don't have the same point of view, look at your own beliefs OBJECTIVELY. Then compare them to the other person's OBJECTIVELY and you may realize that CONCEPTUALLY you both agree. Therefore, your PRINCIPLES are the same! Never let your passions override your principles. That is the reason why there is a failure of understanding. And peace. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest.


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## be350ka (Dec 17, 2004)

santaheckler said:


> I usually don't post, but figured I'd just make a point or two.
> When one person says that they don't want guns to exist because of the violence caused, isn't that the same as somebody who says they don't want Pitts to exist because of the violence caused? In both cases, both sides ignore the fact (which they often only see in their own arguement) that the OWNER is to blame.
> In the dog case, it is argued that you can't "blame the breed". In other words, you should blame the owner for lack of training etc.
> Then why turn around and blame GUNS? You should blame the OWNER right? For lack of training, etc. Same concept...
> ...


Very well put!:thumbsup:


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Yeah, its interesting that laws focus on the dogs instead of the people. Also, there are no regulations as far as purchasing dogs go. Anyone could go buy a pack of Akitas and train them to kill anyone that enters their property. 

Italy is a great example of breed bans, over 40 banned, almost 100 are restricted. Its silly... Welsh Corgies are on the banned list. Border Collies require a muzzle to be in public. 

I guess thats similar to guns... I'm not saying people should be banned from owning guns or dogs, but some mandatory training and explanation of the owner's responsibilities might be a good thing to require before purchase.


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## bullit71 (Apr 9, 2004)

irieness said:


> GO AWAY!!! nobody likes you here anyways....
> 
> you're the hip one with your cool guns and all, you frickin' psycho green beret wannabe...btw...that's not his dog dumbazz...


Do you have a problem with the second amendment? Are you even an American?

Seems like you are the one that needs to 'GO AWAY'. Loser.


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## bullit71 (Apr 9, 2004)

irieness said:


> first things first TNC...I totally think you're a cool old geezer  from what I know of you on this site...and I in no way actually wish you to be target practice nor any bodily harm...and I fully understand that pic was a joke...I don't take you as a person to be an animal torturer...when it comes to people saying they're going to harm ANY ANIMAL I get a little pissed off...I am a HUGE animal lover and will do anything to protect ANY animal, including ones that could harm me...so, I just wanted to explain to you that I was not actually pissed at you as a person, but at the comment and the (unfunny to me) joke...
> 
> as far as guns go...I also fully realize my wishes of this world to be gun free is unrealistic...there's just too much testosterone in this world to ever be otherwise...I also am aware of your RIGHT to bear arms...I do not agree with this, too many reasons to go into it, but I also think it is a poor and (for lack of better words) stupid choice to be a part of keeping guns in circulation...but there is no need to argue my opinion or yours, as they will both probably never change and that's cool...
> 
> as far as keeping a gun to protect yourself, if all hell does break loose...I'm afraid you should maybe reconsider your options and invest in a biochemical war suit and mask or build yourself a nuclear fallout shelter...because the days of Red Dawn are far over my friend...


Irie, or whatever your goofy a$$ name is, can you do everyone here a favor and take your anti-gun, anti-american, leftist dumb-a$$ over the physco-political forum please!

This thread was originally about dogs not guns, so put a cork in it and shut your freakin' trap.

Thanks! :thumbsup:


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## bullit71 (Apr 9, 2004)

irieness said:


> no one was threatening to sick their pit on anyone unless they were threatening to shoot the pit for just being a pit and being on the trail...
> 
> just cuz you don't like the breed doesn't mean you can't pull your head out of your azz...
> 
> ...


Irie,

Bwahahaha!!! I just wanted you to know what an idoit you are sounding like in front of everyone reading this thread! It's hilarious!

Whatever you do please keep posting for our entertainment!


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

santaheckler said:


> I usually don't post, but figured I'd just make a point or two.
> When one person says that they don't want guns to exist because of the violence caused, isn't that the same as somebody who says they don't want Pitts to exist because of the violence caused? In both cases, both sides ignore the fact (which they often only see in their own arguement) that the OWNER is to blame.
> In the dog case, it is argued that you can't "blame the breed". In other words, you should blame the owner for lack of training etc.
> Then why turn around and blame GUNS? You should blame the OWNER right? For lack of training, etc. Same concept...
> ...


good points...but comparing a pit bull, which is a actual being/soul, to a gun, which is a man made object solely for injuring/killing; is like comparing s**t to a nice old grandma...they just don't belong together..

and yes, violence has always existed...but think of it this way...if guns weren't here for people to rob, violate, and kill...do you think as many people would kill if they had to do it by hand...like, actually either stabbing or beating the person to death...probably not most people, but some...most people would either have a hard time doing it, beat the person and injure them but not kill them, or walk away...but not as many people would actually be killed when a violent act is committed...a gun gives killing a person a much easier means...

and again...as I already stated...I understand that my will to end guns is useless in the end and will never happen...but I am still entitled to detest guns and the decision for people to continue to own them...

as with my will to end marijuana prohibition...this may never happen in my lifetime (although I do live in Cali for a reason), but I am still entitled to think that the people who oppose it are misinformed followers...


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## jwilmot (Sep 28, 2005)

*The owner is responsible*

I have a pit mix and she is the most wonderful dog I have ever had. That being said, the last hike my wife and I went on we encountered some other hikers. When we passed my dog sniffed the lady's leg because we were so close. The lady freaked out. I apologized for my dog, even though she did nothing wrong, and the lady started in on how mean pits and boxers (my other dog) were and that she was afraid of them. I did not say anything, but it did make me think about how certain dogs are perceived. Even if your dog is on a trail and is doing nothing wrong, certain people who are not dog lovers will still see your dog as doing something wrong, especially if it is a breed that makes the press once in a while. I would not get another pit mix just for this reason. My dog does not scare me, peoples reactions scare me, especially in a public setting.


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

bullit71 said:


> Irie, or whatever your goofy a$$ name is, can you do everyone here a favor and take your anti-gun, anti-american, leftist dumb-a$$ over the physco-political forum please!
> 
> This thread was originally about dogs not guns, so put a cork in it and shut your freakin' trap.
> 
> Thanks! :thumbsup:


just cuz you're too dumb to know what my name means, doesn't mean it's actually goofy...

and threads like this go off tangent all the time...you obviously don't visit the DH forum often...so STFU!!!!!!!!!!! I don't give a fyck what you want...

and if I'm the dumbazz...how come you're the one with all the grammatical and spelling errors in your posts...educate yourself...

are you actually just pissed at me because you're one of those people with like 5 kids??


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

bullit71 said:


> Do you have a problem with the second amendment? Are you even an American?
> 
> Seems like you are the one that needs to 'GO AWAY'. Loser.


you are a fycking retard...and who cares if I'm an american or not...YOU should shut your fycking trap...no one was talking to you...:nono:


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

be350ka said:


> I think it was you that said this --->"I think people with automatic or semi-automatic guns are stupid."
> 
> I guess I got idiot confused with stupid. My bad.


you are clueless...:thumbsup:


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

chuckie108 said:


> Keep telling yourself that.


I don't have to tell myself that...I KNOW...and I know my IQ is quite high...


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

Jayem said:


> What an accomplishment. You must be proud.


LMAO....it's just like good old times...nothing like having a good e-flame fest to bring out all the HATERZ...

btw...I have actually been told by people from your area that you are truly one crazy old fyck...


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

bullit71 said:


> Irie,
> 
> Bwahahaha!!! I just wanted you to know what an idoit you are sounding like in front of everyone reading this thread! It's hilarious!
> 
> Whatever you do please keep posting for our entertainment!


dude...do you seriously think I give a fyck what you say...what do you think I use this for??? you think I'm actually trying to change people's minds on guns or pit bulls for that matter...you're the idiot for 1. not adding anything useful into a conversation you're not even involved in...2. believing that I'm actually serious in all my posts...get a clue...you have no idea about what's going on...

you're just pissed because you're a dumb republican with a closed mind...people like you are the reason the world has gone to shyt lately...I can't wait til Hillary cleans up the mess the republicans have gotten us into...


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## bullit71 (Apr 9, 2004)

Rosie,

I just want to get you up to speed on a few things:


a. I assume you're a female. Either that or you're a male with one of the gayest pics on on this board. If you are female, I assume you like 'fuzz-bumping'? Ya know - two ****** pounding each other.

b. Your arguments are one step away from the childish 'I know you are now what am I?"

c. Your rants sound eerily like something from a Rosie O'Donnell show.

Wait a minute, perhaps there's a connection here - your rants. Rosie O'Donnell? Maybe we're on to something here. Yes! Your dumb, fat and stupid like Rosie, thus your new nickname - Rosie! That would explain your retarded posts! Yes! Thus your new nickname - Rosie.

d. "SAVE THE EARTH!!!!
please have yourself spayed or neutered after your second child...preferably your first... "


We can only hope that you haven't procreated. Your genes should not pass on.

e. You still are making a fool of yourself here. It's very entertaining.


Look, the bottom line is noone agrees with your filthy spewing here. Your a feminist and God help the person your involved with. 

One other thing - 'fiesty beotch'

A wise man once said, 'know thyself'. You obviously have that one down. And your proud of it? Pathetic!!

Bwahahaha!!!!!!! 

So please, keep posting on this thread for our entertainent!

PS. You just go smoked on an international forun read by thousands. How'z that feel - beotch!! Bwahahaha!!!


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## joelsman (Apr 4, 2006)

I have a lab/ greyhound mix that I adopted, she is a great trail dog, learns fast, does great off the leash, and she can run for hours. she is a very nice dog and a bit skitish which is kinda funny sometimes. She is a skinny dog at 37lbs, but smaller dogs need less food

https://spectrumtechwear.com/Gallery/albums/december2006/joel_and_javi_snake.sized.jpg


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## goosy (Oct 25, 2006)

> I hate pittbulls, or any dog for that matter with the inconsistant and unpredictable predisposition for snapping and attacking someone with the power and lethality to kill whatever they're going off on. I've seen some very very sweet pitts in my life time, and I've also seen the same dog who the family grew up with raised and had nothing but a loving relationship with snap, and take off a childs face for looking at it wrong.


Ive just got 1 question......where were the parents when all this happened.......also dogs dont just "snap" for no reason........

also....most of the time you hear of a pitbull attacking anyone....9 times out of 10 its a cross breed or not even a pit at all......purely mis identified.......ive seen news stories where they are going on about a pit bull attacking someone and they show a pic of a bulldog or someother closely resembling breed.........do you realy think that the news will post a story bout a chihuahua attacking someone.....what kind of ratings do ya think they will get...

I breed American staffordshire terrier and see them as the most couragous and loyal breed there is.......second to none.........

But then again i wouldnt be using one for what the OP wants one for.....purely because they are an exitable dog and will get caught up in the moment and accidents can happen......
For what you want id suggest a pointer or boxer.

I suggest people read up on the history of this breed before making judgments on them.......Pitbulls were bred for animal agression NOT human agression.

cheers


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## bullit71 (Apr 9, 2004)

irieness said:


> good points...but comparing a pit bull, which is a actual being/soul, to a gun, which is a man made object solely for injuring/killing; is like comparing s**t to a nice old grandma...they just don't belong together..
> 
> and yes, violence has always existed...but think of it this way...if guns weren't here for people to rob, violate, and kill...do you think as many people would kill if they had to do it by hand...like, actually either stabbing or beating the person to death...probably not most people, but some...most people would either have a hard time doing it, beat the person and injure them but not kill them, or walk away...but not as many people would actually be killed when a violent act is committed...a gun gives killing a person a much easier means...
> 
> ...


Rosie,

Sweet-tits puleese!! Just because your a$$ is the size of a small country doesn't mean you have to be so mean.

Now listen. - we're trying to help you here. Just 'cause you can't ride a mtn bike worth a damn doesn't mean you have to go off on this board!! Most girls can't handle guyz when it comes to mtn biking (after all we ARE bigger and stronger) so I recommend what most of you girlz do - take off the shoes and pick up a vacuum sweeper like ya were born to do!!!!


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

irieness said:


> first things first TNC...I totally think you're a cool old geezer  from what I know of you on this site...and I in no way actually wish you to be target practice nor any bodily harm...and I fully understand that pic was a joke...I don't take you as a person to be an animal torturer...when it comes to people saying they're going to harm ANY ANIMAL I get a little pissed off...I am a HUGE animal lover and will do anything to protect ANY animal, including ones that could harm me...so, I just wanted to explain to you that I was not actually pissed at you as a person, but at the comment and the (unfunny to me) joke...
> 
> as far as guns go...I also fully realize my wishes of this world to be gun free is unrealistic...there's just too much testosterone in this world to ever be otherwise...I also am aware of your RIGHT to bear arms...I do not agree with this, too many reasons to go into it, but I also think it is a poor and (for lack of better words) stupid choice to be a part of keeping guns in circulation...but there is no need to argue my opinion or yours, as they will both probably never change and that's cool...
> 
> ...


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

bullit71 said:


> Rosie,
> 
> I just want to get you up to speed on a few things:
> 
> ...


you are probably the dumbest person on here...please quit stalking me...you don't belong here and you have no idea about me or my repport with others on the Dh forum...so maybe you should shut your mouth before you make yourself look like more of an idiot just stalking me on this thread without adding anything to do with the thread or an argument for or against guns...all you can do is try and belittle me...well, my friend...in case you haven't noticed...you look like the dumbazz...you have not smoked me in any way, you would have had to make a logical argument for that...your illogical retorts are pointless and aren't even witty...just a little FYI...YOU ARE MY ENTERTAINMENT...but unlike others on this forum...you are clueless of my ability to reel in a sucker...hence the user title "fiesty beotch"...which proves you do not frequent the DH forum often and have invited yourself into a conversation in which you were not welcomed or invited...

as far as the Rosie comment goes...hell yeah I'd be Rosie...she's loaded and we all know money can get you a fine piece of azz... I'm not really sure of me spewing out filth (other than the fact that you might not agree with my level of thinking so you feel the need to make yourself feel better and call it filth)...but I do know you're the one that attacked me with the spewing of your filth...btw...regardless of whether or not you will admit it on here...we both know you are the fat one, and well, you've pretty much proven your stupidity on here as well...I have merely stated my opinion on pitbulls and guns...you're just so insecure you feel the need to put me down for not having your opinion on the subjects...

my husband and I both know I am not a feminist...and in no way have I spewed any feminist crap in this thread...keep pulling shyt out of your azz though...:thumbsup: and there's nothing wrong with being a fuzz bumper either...I just happen not to be one...but it sounds like you have some homophobic problems with the fuzz bumping comment and saying a picture of a woman could possibly be the gayest picture of a man on here...that seems to go with being a closed minded, right wing lardazz though...

as far as being childish...I seem to be the one stating logical and open minded statements about things being discussed...you are the childish one with posts that are only aimed at attacking me...you should try looking in the mirror and figuring out where all this hate in your life is coming from...

thanks for entertaining me while my hubby was out of town though...:thumbsup: 
and let me know if you need any helping figuring out any of the concepts I posted... 
and may you get the psychological help you need...


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

ianjenn said:


> That above line is not so true. Here is why remember the nuts that took advantage during the hurricane? Imagine it about lets say maybe 1000X worse if a small nuclear device hits LA or New York. I have my gun and use it maybe every other month. I guess I have it for a few reasons.
> 1. NOBODY IS GOING TO PROTECT YOU.
> 2. They are fun to use.
> 3. Just in the unfortunate event that it may be needed.
> ps I don't think all should have guns and those that use them in a crime well the keys should be lost forever. And I am just trying to point out reasons why.


good points, very true with the Louisiana example...I guess I'll just have to rely on my charming personality...


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

bullit71 said:


> Rosie,
> 
> Sweet-tits puleese!! Just because your a$$ is the size of a small country doesn't mean you have to be so mean.
> 
> Now listen. - we're trying to help you here. Just 'cause you can't ride a mtn bike worth a damn doesn't mean you have to go off on this board!! Most girls can't handle guyz when it comes to mtn biking (after all we ARE bigger and stronger) so I recommend what most of you girlz do - take off the shoes and pick up a vacuum sweeper like ya were born to do!!!!


you are really clueless...you have no idea who you are fycking with...

first off...I've read a few of your previous posts to get some insight on my newest stalker and...YOU ARE THE FATASS...and you will not get a rise out of me calling ME one because I know I am not...

secondly...you could ask quite a few members of this DH board and they will tell you that I could kick your azz down a mountain...hit a bigger drop than you...and hit steeper, bigger, more technical jumps with more style than you EVER will...

and yes you are bigger than me...but it's because you are a self admitted FATAZZ...

*and belittling me for being a woman proves to me and the rest of this board what a real dipshyt you are...*

so once again...*PLEASE QUIT STALKING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* :nono: :nono:


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## RobsterCraw (Oct 19, 2004)

wow,

that guys a douche bag


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## chuckie108 (Jun 26, 2006)

I'm not here to slam any one's dog, but here are some FACTS to think about. 
Most insurance companies won't give you home owners if you own a pit(or Rot, or.......). Insurance companies are huge companies who make lots of money because they stack the odds in their favor. They do liability studies on anything they insure. This research is what they base their rates on. If they won't insure a home with a Pit Bull, it's not because of the "biased media". That being said- a very good friend of mine has a Pit, and he is probably the coolest dog I've come across in a long time, so I know first hand that a pit can be a great family dog. I think everyone here made good points regarding that dogs are a reflection of their owners. The problem is, is you have a carpet dog that is not well trained, he craps in your house. If you have a pit that is not well trained, he mauls the kids down the street. BTW, pit pulls were not bred for "animal violece", they were bred to KILL bulls. They only stopped surving this purpose(for the most part as some psychos still breed them for fighting) about 90 years ago. This is also true for most dog breeds. If you do any research into the different breeds, you will find that their personalities and traits are a reflection of what they were bred for. Pit Bulls were bred to kill bulls, I don't find it hard to believe that they have a higher incodence of attacks than other breeds. I'm not saying damn all the pit bulls- I'm just saying they need more attention and consideration in regard to safety.:thumbsup:


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## gjabo178 (Aug 14, 2006)

http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/050322/pitbull.shtml

Pitbull pwned!


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

i don't like dogs on the trail and i kick the fukc out of everyone of them that comes near me. as far as i'm concered, any unleadshed dog coming my way (on the trail) is a threat to my safety and he better watch the hell out. i've even been known to square up to them, lean back, pull up on the bars just a tad and straight run their monkey asses right over...


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## bullit71 (Apr 9, 2004)

irieness said:


> you are really clueless...you have no idea who you are fycking with...
> 
> first off...I've read a few of your previous posts to get some insight on my newest stalker and...YOU ARE THE FATASS...and you will not get a rise out of me calling ME one because I know I am not...
> 
> ...


Don't flatter yourself.

Your comments on guns and your bad attitude toward TNC (who I personally respect for his opinions and seems to be one of the nicer ppl on these boards) is what set me off.

You clearly have a horrific bad attitude and a do feel sorry for you.

If it hadn't been raining like mad here in the Bay Area I wouldn't even had wasted my time commenting on someone like you.

Caio!


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

irieness said:


> good points, very true with the Louisiana example...I guess I'll just have to rely on my charming personality...


Yeah you can charm em and I will look like an idiot that babbles out of his mouth, so thye figure screw it rob this clown!


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## greenmacheen (Apr 8, 2004)

I've got a plain old yellow lab. She is pretty small around 50#s. Listens well. Bombproof w/ strangers & kids. Portable... I like it.


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

bullit71 said:


> Don't flatter yourself.
> 
> Your comments on guns and your bad attitude toward TNC (who I personally respect for his opinions and seems to be one of the nicer ppl on these boards) is what set me off.
> 
> ...


LMAO...keep trying to scapegoat from looking like a woman belittling fycktard...you are truly clueless...and you have no idea about my internet relationship with TNC...I don't see him crying like you, possibly because he has some rapport with me, which you do not...I guess you were just sticking up for someone you wish was your lover but are too homophobic to admit... I'm pretty sure he can stick up for himself and he doesn't need some freak from the internet coming to his rescue because he gave you some helpful tips on an internet forum and now you have a crush on him...

and yes...you are just spot on with my whole personality...I look like Rosie O'Donnell...I'm a lesbian...I hate everyone...I'm never sarcastic on the internet, this is serious business you know...mtbr is my life and I'm so sad our relationship is in disarray...please like me...:thumbsup: oh yeah...and I ride worse than you... keep living in your disillusional world buddy...you don't even argue a point you just pull more crap out of your azz to try and make up for the last crap you spewed onto the internet...all the while disregarding any means to justify one thing you have said about me...YOU ARE A KOOK!!!! peace, love and happiness to you...


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> i don't like dogs on the trail and i kick the fukc out of everyone of them that comes near me. as far as i'm concered, any unleadshed dog coming my way (on the trail) is a threat to my safety and he better watch the hell out. i've even been known to square up to them, lean back, pull up on the bars just a tad and straight run their monkey asses right over...


yeah, but you're just mean like that...you'd run over a kid...


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## norcalgrenadier (Jul 30, 2006)

Karupshun said:


> jeez, if you want a dog that can run, and one that isn't going to freak out and eat a baby
> 
> get a border collie, they'll tire you out long before you wear them down, they are incredibly intelligent and easy to train, excellent kids&people dogs, and readily available at the spca


I have a border collie (well ok, he's got some heeler in him) and he is super active, friendly, and while on leash, if another dog is freaking out, he's the calmest dog ever. One problem, he HATES skateboarders, and _sometimes_ bikers. But if its me on a skateboard or bike, all he has to do is sniff me and see who i am and he's fine. I'm sure if the dog is raised on trails around bikes moving, he'll be more than fine. Plus border collies do this cool almost stalking thing when you've got a frisbee in your hand like he's herding sheep.


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## J-dogg (Aug 7, 2006)

we have a pound dog, shes got german sheperd in her, andsome collie, but no retriever at all. wont fetch. she loves running and when we got her she was agressive around most other dogs, but has gotten better. she is really sweet and wont harm humans at all. about the gun issue, most people on the east coast where i live (southeast) own guns anyways, we have 6 year olds deerspotting behind our house and my neighbor gets paid to shoot squirells out of our neighbor's pecan farm, then he eats them. semi auto and auto is retarded RETARDED


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

irieness said:


> you have no idea who you are fycking with...


Not only do we have no idea, but we don't care either.


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## Zonk0u (Jun 3, 2004)

irieness said:


> no one was threatening to sick their pit on anyone unless they were threatening to shoot the pit for just being a pit and being on the trail...


I suggest you read it again, because you're wrong.



> reading comprehension...not everyone posesses it...


Oh, and while you're at it, regurgitate your foot.


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## RadChad (Jul 12, 2005)

bullit71 said:


> Rosie,
> 
> Sweet-tits puleese!! Just because your a$$ is the size of a small country doesn't mean you have to be so mean.
> 
> Now listen. - we're trying to help you here. Just 'cause you can't ride a mtn bike worth a damn doesn't mean you have to go off on this board!! Most girls can't handle guyz when it comes to mtn biking (after all we ARE bigger and stronger) so I recommend what most of you girlz do - take off the shoes and pick up a vacuum sweeper like ya were born to do!!!!


Wow, you make me feel like a genius.


----------



## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Not only do we have no idea, but we don't care either.


LMAO...just cuz you're jealous of me doesn't mean you had to be a HATER from day one...you and bullit71 should start an Irieness stalking haterz club...over 2 years of hate JM...really get over it...


----------



## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

Zonk0u said:


> I suggest you read it again, because you're wrong.
> 
> Oh, and while you're at it, regurgitate your foot.


you should reread it...and it's nice that you are also a HATER for life as well...jealousy is not pretty my friend...:thumbsup:

I have no problem getting my foot out of my mouth...it just happens not to be in there this time...


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## erol/frost (Jan 3, 2004)

Interesting thread. Makes me wanna pick up a rescuedog even though my fiance is afraid of them and i know didleysquat about dogs. 

I must also say that i am surprised to hear that TNC, Bearer of Wisdom, Knowledge and Nomadian Thoughts on MTBR, is pro-guns. When The Towelheads Are Coming(tm) everyones a soldier right? 

And those dogs who pull sleighs on Greenland are very nice. I could see myself have one of those. Or a nice lab.

Oh, and irieness, what does it say on your avatar?


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## Zonk0u (Jun 3, 2004)

irieness said:


> you should reread it...and it's nice that you are also a HATER for life as well...jealousy is not pretty my friend...:thumbsup:
> 
> I have no problem getting my foot out of my mouth...it just happens not to be in there this time...





zachdank said:


> Quote:
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zonk0u*
> _this is funny. and I know every pitt owner is like the ones here. They'll vehemently preach up and down about how pittbulls are sweet and loving dogs. They'll take it to the grave. Then their kid gets their arm chewed off by their perfect 10 year old blue, and suddenly their tune changes._
> ...


here, this will help get rid of that nasty militant boot aftertaste.









Whats wrong? out of buds? You're being a Cvnt to everyone who challenges your oppinions... Is it that time of the month? No wait, I forgot... IM THE JEALOUS HATER.


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## Mike H. (Aug 28, 2006)

blackagness said:


> I had a Colly when I was a kid... smartest dog I ever owned, I mean almost creepy smart.


So too did I, and, ya, smart, and willing to please.
Was an awesome runner to boot. Used to train cross country running and cross country skiing with her.
Awesome dog, well precieved/recieved by the public including childern. No threat to anyone... and I'm certain would go sit in a fire if commanded.
She passed, we got a Shetland Sheepdog, often refered to as a miniture collie.
Same brains, same willingness to please, same public response, same energy level, smaller package, yet somehow more people oriented. She used to ride 34-35k cross country rides with me... tight technical single track... I'd carry her under my arm on fireroads... too little to keep up.
I now have 2... Dazey-Mae and Penny-Lane... awesome dogs, never need a lead, never chase anything, or run ahead/lag behind, never leave the yard, always obey first command, never go out of sight, even when camping = self contained tenting...
They are very boundry oriented(herders), training your properties boundries is as easy as walking it a few times.

I simply cannot imagine why anyone would want a breed with a perpencity/reputation for aggression as a pet. Simply don't get it...


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Erol, that pro-gun comment...*

is interesting. What?...you thought we all had pressed white sheets with pointy hoods? Gee...I thought all anti-gun foks were just pointy-headed. Seriously though, sterotypes can be fun...if you don't take 'em too seriously.


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## bullit71 (Apr 9, 2004)

Oye! I haven't read this thread since my last post and here I see it back at the top of the list again. I thought for sure it would have died.

If you need a fresh thread to check out there's another fight brewing over guns in the 'General Discussion' forum.

Hard to believe no one's been banned after this thread, we've all broken every rule in the book!


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Baloney!*



bullit71 said:


> Oye! I haven't read this thread since my last post and here I see it back at the top of the list again. I thought for sure it would have died.
> 
> If you need a fresh thread to check out there's another fight brewing over guns in the 'General Discussion' forum.
> 
> Hard to believe no one's been banned after this thread, we've all broken every rule in the book!


I think I've been a perfect gentleman!


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## phib1134 (Dec 20, 2006)

i dont like any dog on trails becayse the dogs allways hate me. sorry about that i ment to type like cuz k is next to l


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## be350ka (Dec 17, 2004)

phib1134 said:


> i dont **** any dog on trails becayse the dogs allways hate me.


Watch your mouth!!:skep:


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## n8whitie (Dec 18, 2006)

phib1134 said:


> i dont like any dog on trails becayse the dogs allways hate me. sorry about that i ment to type like cuz k is next to l


 I think he meant like man..... K is right next to L. I hit the wrong button all the time.


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## be350ka (Dec 17, 2004)

n8whitie said:


> I think he meant like man..... K is right next to L. I hit the wrong button all the time.


I know!! Maybe I should have included  or  or maybe  . Damn internet. You can never get a simple joke across.


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## phib1134 (Dec 20, 2006)

oh ok. hahahah


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## n8whitie (Dec 18, 2006)

HAHA. Hank G inadvertantly started a real sh1tstorm with this dog business.Its gone from dogs to guns to smoking dope back to guns touched on dogs again briefly and now its turned into an antisemitism thing...... this horse has been beaten.... take 'er away!!


Moderator!!! please kill this God Damned thing!!


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## man w/ one hand (Dec 29, 2003)

bullit71 said:


> Oye! I haven't read this thread since my last post and here I see it back at the top of the list again. I thought for sure it would have died.
> 
> If you need a fresh thread to check out there's another fight brewing over guns in the 'General Discussion' forum.
> 
> Hard to believe no one's been banned after this thread, we've all broken every rule in the book!


You are correct. But, evidently _*it depends on who is breaking those rulez....*_


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## irieness (Feb 22, 2004)

Zonk0u said:


> here, this will help get rid of that nasty militant boot aftertaste.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LMAO...I thought you were talking about people he was actually having a conversation with...not a smartazz comment...my apologies... 
btw...neither of our dogs could actually chew your arm off...one of them is so old he doesn't even have teeth...:arf:

you guys seem to think it always has to be that time of the month for a woman to speak her mind or flip some shyt at people who deserve it...what's your excuse?? you on the rag all the time then...or maybe you're just used to women that are too spineless to speak of what they believe in or aren't quick enough to be a smartazz...:nono:

the only person I was actually being mean to was psycho bullit dude cuz he came at me with it, and I was just making fun of his idiocy ( I could really care less if he's fatter or a less capable bike rider than me)...you just hate my old man, and so therefore hate me, just like some others on here...get a clue buddy...I agreed with people's counterpoints and didn't even join in the conversation of hatred of pits...I just fycked with the people like you trying to attack me...unlike you, I don't take this all seriously...and I don't even have offline hatred for HATERZ like you either...can you say that??  
I still heart you though...


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## Zonk0u (Jun 3, 2004)

irieness said:


> LMAO...I thought you were talking about people he was actually having a conversation with...not a smartazz comment...my apologies...
> btw...neither of our dogs could actually chew your arm off...one of them is so old he doesn't even have teeth...:arf:


appology accepted.



> you guys seem to think it always has to be that time of the month for a woman to speak her mind or flip some shyt at people who deserve it...


speaking your mind and flipping some shyt is one thing, going off on anyone who slightly disagrees with you with a mouth foaming rant is another.



> what's your excuse?? you on the rag all the time then...


 nope just out of mother nature and easily agrivated by people who say stupid shyt.... not that you're stupid by any means.



> or maybe you're just used to women that are too spineless to speak of what they believe in or aren't quick enough to be a smartazz...:nono:


personally I like a strong woman to keep me in check, however If she's too immature to get her points accross without being a b!tch, then I have no problems treating her the way she acts.



> the only person I was actually being mean to was psycho bullit dude cuz he came at me with it, and I was just making fun of his idiocy ( I could really care less if he's fatter or a less capable bike rider than me)


well my perspective is a little different. Maybe you should analyze how you come off to other people....



> you just hate my old man, and so therefore hate me, just like some others on here...get a clue buddy...


who's your old man? Please, I know you think you're super important and all, but contrary to what you might think, the only things I know about you are a) you're female, b) you smoke like a chimney, and c) you're about as abrasive as they come. Beyond that which is obvious, I couldnt give 2 craps less about who people are on the internet.



> I agreed with people's counterpoints and didn't even join in the conversation of hatred of pits...I just fycked with the people like you trying to attack me...unlike you, I don't take this all seriously...and I don't even have offline hatred for HATERZ like you either...can you say that??
> I still heart you though...


I heart you too babydoll. happy valentines day.


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## VPSer (Jun 22, 2004)

No, No, No dont kill it(the thread). Someones wonderful Pitbull just ate a pedestrians hand.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-bull-attack,1,661582.story?coll=chi-news-hed

I'm a dog lover, I have a Mastiff and a Lab which I trust almost completely. Tthats right almost, they are afterall animals and could do alot of damage considering they are a combined 300lbs. They are super gentle and anybody who knows them, knows this, but they(mostly the Mastiff) will scare the crap out of strangers, especially if they were running loose in the forest preserve or on a trail. My opinion is a loose dog on a trails is always a problem waiting to happen, unless you are the only one on the trail. Meaning if you own the trail do what you want, if you dont, leave the pooch at home.

Furthermore, I agree that humans are to blame for the Pitbull problems we have, but not for lack of training(for most of this breed training isnt the problem) but because of Very Very bad breeding practices. We humans have almost completely ruined the pitbull. Sure not all of them are bad news, but most have it in them to do things like this and that is really unfortunate.

Remember folks, the dog breeds we have these days were all created for a purpose, hunting, herding, tracking, ect. One of those purposes was to fight and protect. That isnt trained out, its only supressed. It's in pitbulls/others and it can be very dangerous.

Nevermind Kill this thread


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## HANKg (Mar 20, 2006)

What a shitstorm this thread has become.....


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

I found a bull in a pit once.

I tried to get him out.

He was heavy and uncooperative.

Bah.


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## swoodbrn (Oct 5, 2005)

Get one of these. But, be careful - the one in the middle bites.


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## Mongiafer (May 29, 2005)

Pitbull owners usually are stupid as theirs dogs......


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## X-Vert (Jan 22, 2004)

*Good one!*



swoodbrn said:


> Get one of these. But, be careful - the one in the middle bites.


:thumbsup:


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## Goliath_2 (Jul 29, 2004)

somebody please kill this thread now....


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## sin/p3 (Oct 27, 2005)

sounds like all you people *****en about pittbulls are weak in the head its all about how you raise them. its not the dogs falt its the owners falt.grow some nuts you little *****es.i ride the north west and everybody owens pittbulls.i have never had a eneything happen:nono: p.s i own 2 pitts kill my dogs and see what happens. its not the dog falt.smarten up ass holes


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

sin/p3 said:


> sounds like all you people *****en about pittbulls are weak in the head its all about how you raise them. its not the dogs falt its the owners falt.grow some nuts you little *****es.i ride the north west and everybody owens pittbulls.i have never had a eneything happen:nono: p.s i own 2 pitts kill my dogs and see what happens. its not the dog falt.smarten up ass holes


Brilliant retort! I like all the pretty ***'s!!

If pitbulls try to bite me, I set them on fire with my laser vision!


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## dusthuffer (Nov 30, 2006)

aw, don't kill it - keep the freakshow rolling!


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

When looking at pitbull puppies, always take the one that licks, not bites.

I've been around alot of Pit breeders and found this out. There's sometimes 1 or 2 dogs out of a mix that will be super kissy and licky, while others like to chew on things.

I've found the ones who bite and nibble tend to be introverted and prone to snapping on other dogs or people regardless of training. The ones who like to kiss and lick everything in sight are incredibly easy to train to be controlled and friendly. 

Just make sure to let them grow up around children, bikes, other dogs, etc. The more you expose your puppy to the world at a young age, the better they will behave. My buddy's pit goes to a day care to play with children every week. He knocks them over and licks their faces like crazy. The kids even put their hands in his mouth and drag him around, he gently lets them, and continues licking. He's 4 years old and has been this way since birth. Even when he is attacked by other dogs, he just plays around, completely oblivious that the other dog is trying to kill him.

Not suited for riding? Yes they are! He would pull me around on my bike for up to 10 miles at a time and beg for more. Their short fur helps shed heat fast.


These types of pits are rare though, and I usually suggest people look at other breeds for a better chance at a more stable dog. Usually any dog used for hunting or sheeping will be the easiest to control and train. But just like any dog, they MUST MUST MUST grow up around other well behaved dogs to learn social manners. IMO, every mean dog out there wasn't brought up in a social doggy setting. Take them to the park ASAP to play with older dogs. They learn 10 times faster/better from older dogs than humans.


I've had bad experiences with being attacked by pits before. They tend to just go right in for the bite, where as other dogs will stand off a little and snarl at you before attacking. I had a pit attack me when visiting a friend once. I got him to latch onto a thick stick and then pinned his lower jaw to the ground using the ends of the stick and my body wieght. I was about to try tieing his feet together and running when the owner came out. The dog was sitting on my lap licking my hand 20 minutes later inside. Go figure!


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## cmb2874 (Jul 5, 2006)

get a breed like mine, people will know to beware.


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## Imperial (Jun 9, 2006)

Cant belive all the arguing over dogs going off,typical american attitude that gives ya a bad name!(no offense)

Any breed of dog can be very good round children and trained to be good at anything,i know people who have staffordshire pitbull terrier's and there very very good with kids and off the leesh,so go for a dog you have your heart set on,you cant go wrong with any bread as long as you train it propaly,bigger boned dog would be a little better for long journey's.


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

cmb2874 said:


> get a breed like mine, people will know to beware.


That pooch is piffed out! Get him some munchies ASAP!


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## King Gull (Oct 2, 2006)

cool pic tnc
guns are great!


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## dhslovak (Sep 8, 2004)

Get a monkey. I figure they're fast, portable, and can fling crap at anyone that makes you mad. Yeah, I can't wait for someone to freak about the idea of a rabid trained attack monkey, cause I'm sure those little suckers can get vicious. 

Seriously though, German shepards are great family dogs, and with the right temperment and training are very friendly, plus they're bred to run and follow orders.


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## Imperial (Jun 9, 2006)

My dog even sits like a human


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## ban'd4life (Feb 13, 2007)

*To the OP..*

You can always look at getting a Husky ar a Malamute. They will run far longer than you can probably ride. A word of caution tho; Mutes are very much pack dogs and VERY much Alpha type personalities. I unfortunately can't take mine on the trails because he thinks any dog smaller than him (115lbs) is fair game. As far as Pits go- I think everything has been pretty much covered on this flamed out thread. Good luck in your search for a good trail dog- Rene said it best " The only good trail dog is the one that adheres to strict voice commands". Or something like that. But here is one great dog, just wish he wasn't so aggressive towards other dogs.


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## fourtyounce (May 2, 2006)

greenmacheen said:


> I've got a plain old yellow lab. She is pretty small around 50#s. Listens well. Bombproof w/ strangers & kids. Portable... I like it.


Pretty much the best reponse yet, although this thread is full of many thoughtful ideas and insight. I'm pretty partial to Labs myself. Had a couple and loved them to death. Low maintenance, super fun bundles of joy! :thumbsup:



Mongiafer said:


> Pitbull owners usually are stupid as theirs dogs......


There are definitely a few...


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## Huvis (Nov 5, 2005)

My brother had a pit bull 20 years ago,a law suit waiting to happen. and it did. I have a lab who is not the sharpest tool in the shed. he rides with me. once i rolled down a gully and separated my shoulder. he stood at the top laughing at me, but then walked out with me like a true freind. bottom line I like rideing with my dog!!


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## TrikeKid (Sep 1, 2006)

Huvis said:


> My brother had a pit bull 20 years ago,a law suit waiting to happen. and it did. I have a lab who is not the sharpest tool in the shed. he rides with me. once i rolled down a gully and separated my shoulder. he stood at the top laughing at me, but then walked out with me like a true freind. bottom line I like rideing with my dog!!


Please, keep feeding the ignorant stereotypes , calling a pitbull a lawsuit waiting to happen is like saying all black people are thieves and all people white people live in the suburbs and have kids named Tad. Most common dog bite is from black labs, not pitbulls or canaries, or dobermans or any of these supposedly "Vicious" breeds, I trust our pit the most out of all of our 4, german shepard/malamute mix is the only one that's actually snapped at me (he actually got my hand in his mouth once, he stopped before he clamped down at least).


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## dft (Apr 9, 2004)

*when pitbulls met porcubines!*


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

TrikeKid said:


> Please, keep feeding the ignorant stereotypes , calling a pitbull a lawsuit waiting to happen is like saying all black people are thieves and all people white people live in the suburbs and have kids named Tad. Most common dog bite is from black labs, not pitbulls or canaries, or dobermans or any of these supposedly "Vicious" breeds, I trust our pit the most out of all of our 4, german shepard/malamute mix is the only one that's actually snapped at me (he actually got my hand in his mouth once, he stopped before he clamped down at least).


Ahh, so your singular experience is indicitive of all pitbulls?


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Thats actually a bull terrier, a completely different dog. They were bred to kill rats among other things.

Not that your post has anything to do with anything anyway...


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

davec113 said:


> Thats actually a bull terrier, a completely different dog. They were bred to kill rats among other things.
> 
> Not that your post has anything to do with anything anyway...


It is a pitbull as much as almost any other, only the 'American Pit Bull Terrier' has an offical name/title including 'pit'. I believe ZD's is actually a Staffordshire Terrier (or possibly an American Staffordshire Terrier) - however:

"A pit bull is a member of any of a number of breeds of dogs developed from the English Bulldog. Breeds recognized as pit bulls include the American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier, although the name is also often used to refer to other breeds of similar characteristics, such as the American Bulldog and Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and mixed breeds that include any of these breeds."

Rat terrier is another broad title applied to breeds like Jack Russell, Yorkshire, as well as other small terriers. Rest assured, Bull Terriers are sporting (hunting etc..) AND fighting dogs historically and not rat hunters.


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

Oh - and while there are a significant portion of these dogs that are agressive and ill behaved, it is due to the tough guy culture where agressive minded characters get the dogs and train them poorly, or are indifferent to negative behaviors so long as it doesnt affect them! (OR they dont realize or feel that it effects them.)

So the manifest reality is there is a relatively higher ratio of 'bad' dogs to good - but it is a function of culture and not the breed itself!

I know where you can find a pair of vicious standard poodles; hows about them apples? Nurture - not nature!


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Huck Banzai said:


> It is a pitbull as much as almost any other, only the 'American Pit Bull Terrier' has an offical name/title including 'pit'. I believe ZD's is actually a Staffordshire Terrier (or possibly an American Staffordshire Terrier) - however:
> 
> "A pit bull is a member of any of a number of breeds of dogs developed from the English Bulldog. Breeds recognized as pit bulls include the American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier, although the name is also often used to refer to other breeds of similar characteristics, such as the American Bulldog and Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and mixed breeds that include any of these breeds."
> 
> Rat terrier is another broad title applied to breeds like Jack Russell, Yorkshire, as well as other small terriers. Rest assured, Bull Terriers are hunting AND fighting dogs historically and not rat hunters.


Thats all a bunch of garbage. 

The "English Bulldog" was developed in the 1800s FROM Staffies, as well as Pugs and god knows what else. They have never been working dogs, ever.

The "Bull Terrier" was also developed in the 1800s to be a companion and rat-killer. It was derived from Staffies as well as other breeds. It isn't even close to an APBT or Staffie. It's a completely different breed.

The American Pit Bull Terrier is probably the closest thing to what a "Bulldog" really was before the mid 1800s or so, before all the other breeds of Bulldog mixes were created.

I you don't believe me, google "English Bulldog" and read about their history beore you reply and get the foot caught in the mouth.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

I'll agree with that...


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## Huck Banzai (May 8, 2005)

davec113 said:


> Thats all a bunch of garbage.
> 
> The "English Bulldog" was developed in the 1800s FROM Staffies, as well as Pugs and god knows what else. They have never been working dogs, ever.
> 
> ...


Granted there is dispute by some, and reclassifications of breeds abound; some will argue that the 'pit bull' is the original breed, not the staffordshire (not American). The majority of academic expertise leads strongly toward the quoted verion. The 'english bulldog' or brachycephalic bulldog is the root of a broad series of breed management, and is most certainly not a distraction to cause me to 'put my foot in my mouth' AND was most certainly a working dog. The English Bull dog is believed to have derived from Mastiff and Pug, and not Staffordshire, which was its descendent in turn; Having been first distinguished as its own breed (broadly) in 1631, there is a signifcant predate to the 1800's where you allude they were developed. The 'Bull Terrier' was developed as a companion and sporting dog, but never a rat dog - it was actually bred for looks; While the breeding deviates more recently, and is established, the root breeds include primarily the english bull dog (as well as Dalmatian, White Terrier, Greyhound and Foxhound and others supposed)

My exposure and experience with classification within primatology leads me to follow the logical and historically documented path I quoted. (From AKC)

In application, the term 'Pit Bull' is not qualified and coloquially refers to a number of breeds - rarely an actual American Pit Bull Terrier! Dont take the name too literally (Pit Bull, or English Bulldog) While it is true that many 'pit bull enthusiasts' will say a Bull Terrier is NOT a Pit Bull, as many again will disagree - and we can loop back around to its colloquial nature and concede that none and all are correct at the same time.


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

Oh look, another child attacked by a Pitbull. 
But this NEVER happens!... link


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Locoman said:


> Oh look, another child attacked by a Pitbull.
> But this NEVER happens!... link


jealousy..............


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## zombiekiller (Jan 25, 2007)

people are scared of my french bulldog. his lips hang over his teeth. when we play and he tries to bite me, generally his teeth hit more of his lip and less of my hand . 

that being said, people can perceive anything to be a danger, there is no way to control it. 

I do think a pit bull would be a poor choice for a trail dog. i also don't think a wiemeranner would make a good trail dog either ( they are too smart and like to test owners normally) perhaps a vishla would be a good choice? regardless of choice, making any dog a well behaved trail dog takes lots and lots of work. It is never buy dog, go ride, rinse , repeat. 

the most well behaved and intelligent dog i've ever owned has also been a rescue. She was the best.


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

Here's the ultimate trail dog...










and here she is fending off El Chuppacabra on a recent trail ride...


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## Goliath_2 (Jul 29, 2004)

hey Coma... can you kill this thread?? please???? exercise your new authoritai!!


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

Here's the ultimate trail dog...










and here she is fending off El Chuppacabra on a recent trail ride...


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## Zonk0u (Jun 3, 2004)

I blame Loco for this


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## TrikeKid (Sep 1, 2006)

Jayem said:


> Ahh, so your singular experience is indicitive of all pitbulls?


Well if all the singular negative experiences are, why not? :madman:


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