# 2 e-bikes for me!!!



## mattkock (Mar 19, 2009)

Well after losing the use of my right knee Christmas Eve 2015 I have only been able to Downhill mountain bike in the summers since then. Well back in March a good friend of mine got me a Moustache Pedal Assist Tandem. We took the chain off the front ring so I just coast, steer, shift and brake up there while my Stoker does all of the pedaling. I have ridden all of the local Houston, Texas trails and even made it to Bentonville Arkansas. Just when I thought he was the best friend I ever had he went and got a Paradox Kinetics motor for his NS Snabb Plus and has just left it in my garage to use until I get my knee replacement. That's right since March of this year my buddy has spent $6,800 on the Tandem and $6,500 on the Snabb plus the $2,800 Paradox motor for it on me. I seriously have the best friends ever. I have even got my wife to Stoker for me. 

Most common questions are, What does the Tandem weigh? 75lbs. How much does the Snabb Plus weigh? 37lbs. What is the run time for the Paradox motor? 3-4 hours and how fast does the Paradox go? I have had it up to 33mph on flat ground. 

If anyone is going to be in Bentonville for OuterBike October 26-28 and you see me say Hi. I will only have the NS Snabb there but I'll be all over that place.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

Nice! That Paradox setup is SO SWEET!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Hats off to these good solutions and great community.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

It's probably a waste of time to point out that the Snabb isn't actually an ebike, with 1500w and a throttle, it's legally a moped. Riding it on public trails isn't going to help anyone's cause, including emtbers.


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## BCsaltchucker (Jan 16, 2014)

why not? many public trails allow motos already


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Harryman said:


> It's probably a waste of time to point out that the Snabb isn't actually an ebike, with 1500w and a throttle, it's legally a moped. Riding it on public trails isn't going to help anyone's cause, including emtbers.


Surely can't do anymore damage than me saying "Braap!"


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## tahoebeau (May 11, 2014)

Harryman said:


> It's probably a waste of time to point out that the Snabb isn't actually an ebike, with 1500w and a throttle, it's legally a moped. Riding it on public trails isn't going to help anyone's cause, including emtbers.


No one cares and therefore it doesnt matter at all and never will. What matters is, does it look more like a bicycle than a motorcycle? And yes, yes it does. So therefore it is a perfectly legal ebike.

That is how this ebike thing works and will continue to work as there is no other practical way to do it. So can the wattage police stop annoying everybody by pointing out an ebike has however many watts above the legal limit which cannot be enforced anyways and no one would care to enforce if they could?


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

Harryman said:


> It's probably a waste of time to point out that the Snabb isn't actually an ebike, with 1500w and a throttle, it's legally a moped. Riding it on public trails isn't going to help anyone's cause, including emtbers.


Thanks for the reminder Harryman. Thats setup is still really SWEET! Ride it where it is allowed!


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

tahoebeau said:


> No one cares and therefore it doesnt matter at all and never will. What matters is, does it look more like a bicycle than a motorcycle? And yes, yes it does. So therefore it is a perfectly legal ebike.
> 
> That is how this ebike thing works and will continue to work as there is no other practical way to do it. So can the wattage police stop annoying everybody by pointing out an ebike has however many watts above the legal limit which cannot be enforced anyways and no one would care to enforce if they could?


I think at this point, calling out ebikes that are over the "legal" limit for wattage is like playing basketball with someone that has down syndrome and constantly calling them out for double dribble. There is nothing that can be done about it, so no point in calling it out.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

singletrackmack said:


> I think at this point, calling out ebikes that are over the "legal" limit for wattage is like playing basketball with someone that has down syndrome and constantly calling them out for double dribble. There is nothing that can be done about it, so no point in calling it out.


Mtbr has a policy of not supporting poaching, which riding that motorized bike on Class 1 legal trails in Bentonville would be, or on any other non motorized trail.

These sort of threads are far more useful than you might think.



PinoyMTBer said:


> Thanks for the reminder Harryman. Thats setup is still really SWEET! Ride it where it is allowed!


They're definitely a nice system, agreed.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

singletrackmack said:


> I think at this point, calling out ebikes that are over the "legal" limit for wattage is like playing basketball with someone that has down syndrome and constantly calling them out for double dribble. There is nothing that can be done about it, so no point in calling it out.


I tend to agree. For better or worse, they will be managed (and judged) simply by their looks and on-trail behavior. That's probably very bad for trail access in the long run (possibly bad for normal pedal bikes too if they look similar enough that LMs can't tell them apart) but c'est la vie. We've collectively decided to roll the dice on this, I guess.

-Walt


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## mattkock (Mar 19, 2009)

As far as being a Moped I can assure you that I am quite a bit slower on the Paradox powered bike than I was on my Carbon SS by a long way and my buddy Scott Schroen is the Trail Steward for ALL of The OZ Trails and has assured me that my Handicapped Butt and my Snabb will be just fine and more than welcome to ride All of the Bentonville Trails come OuterBike. I invite you all to become handicapped and then give me your opinion on how Awful these Paradox Powered "Mopeds" are but until then Shhhhhhhh, I'm not interested in what you "think". It is just amazing to be back on the trails with my friends. I cry nearly every time I ride now. It's been a hard pill to swallow being handicapped after being a 6 time Texas State Champ. There were Haters when I built up my 13lb. Niner, Haters when I built up my 32lb. SS DH bike and now Haters now that I am finally back on the trails by any mean necessary. C'est la vie is right. Now I don't know whether to smile or cry again. Some people can just suck the fun out of anything. :-(


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## brownpownow (Jul 19, 2018)

mattkock said:


> As far as being a Moped I can assure you that* I am quite a bit slower on the Paradox powered bike* than I was on my Carbon SS by a long way





mattkock said:


> how fast does the Paradox go? I have had it up to *33mph on flat ground. *


So you went 33mph+ on flat ground on your Carbon SS? You're not making sense.



mattkock said:


> and my buddy Scott Schroen is the Trail Steward for ALL of The OZ Trails and has assured me that my Handicapped Butt and my Snabb will be just fine and more than welcome to ride All of the Bentonville Trails come OuterBike. I invite you all to become handicapped and then give me your opinion on how Awful these Paradox Powered "Mopeds" are but until then Shhhhhhhh, I'm not interested in what you "think". It is just amazing to be back on the trails with my friends. I cry nearly every time I ride now. It's been a hard pill to swallow being handicapped.


Using your "logic" my handicapped placard would have made it just fine for me to carve up some of the local singletrack on a moto. You know, because I couldn't ride a normal bike for a while and well, rules be damned!

I would suggest that you double check with your buddy. At least one of the places that allows a handicapped exception for Class 1 bikes (still different than your moped) requires prior authorization from the land manager.


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## mattkock (Mar 19, 2009)

Yes in my neighborhood on a road I did go 33mph that's true but on the trail I have gotten to about 19ish. 

And trust me this thing doesn't have nearly the torque coming out of a corner that a SS with a 32 x 16 gearing does. It's not even close to being a Moto or even a Moped for that matter. I have done 6 group rides here locally in Houston and I'm always near the back of the group and if we get to an even Short climb with Any kind of steepness the Paradox doesn't have the torque to make it and since my right knee won't make pedal strokes I am walking. 

People should at least ride one of these before they start making "Moto" comments, it's not what you think it is.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I know Bentonville allows class1 and possibly class2 from what I’m told. If your 1500w ebike isn’t allowed, why not bring a class1 pedelec?


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## mattkock (Mar 19, 2009)

I can't make pedal strokes. My right knee locks out before making it over the top of a pedal stroke. I can Only coast.


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## brownpownow (Jul 19, 2018)

mattkock said:


> And trust me this thing doesn't have nearly the torque coming out of a corner that a SS with a 32 x 16 gearing does. It's not even close to being a Moto or even a Moped for that matter.


You are not believable.


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## mattkock (Mar 19, 2009)

Well I now own one and have ridden it more than a few times and trust me it is NOT a Moto or Moped. I eagerly await your first ride impressions brownpownow. Did you actually watch that Video? He's crawling up even small climbs. I think I'm done listening to you until you ride one. You can ride mine if you want. :thumbsup:


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## brownpownow (Jul 19, 2018)

mattkock said:


> Well I now own one and have ridden it more than a few times and trust me it is NOT a Moto or Moped. I eagerly await your first ride impressions brownpownow. Did you actually watch that Video? He's crawling up even small climbs.


Previous video "instant torque, everywhere." And yes, I watched the entire video. I would suggest that you do the same before commenting further.

It looks like it's not a Moped in Texas. It's a motorcycle.

Texas Mopeds
In Texas, a moped is defined as a motor-driven cycle that:

CANNOT drive faster than 30 MPH in 1 mile.
Has an engine that CANNOT generate more than 2 brake horsepower.
ADDITIONALLY, if has an internal combustion engine, the piston displacement must NOT exceed 50 cc, and the power drive system must NOT require the rider to shift gears.
If your vehicle exceeds any of the above criteria, then it's automatically classified as a motorcycle.​


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Idk, I shattered both heels riding moto and was bed ridden for 2 months. Took me a year to be able to walk normally. I missed out on a lot of action, but waited. I would just shuttle and be respectful of the rules. Regardless, you have a great support team.


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## mattkock (Mar 19, 2009)

I am so over you brownpownow. I am literally on the phone with Scott now and he said that the trails in Benotnville are on Private Land and my bike will be more than welcome. If you rode more than Gravel Bikes I would value your e-bike opinions more. Buh-Bye brownpownow


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

mattkock said:


> I am so over you brownpownow. I am literally on the phone with Scott now and he said that the trails in Benotnville are on Private Land and my bike will be more than welcome. If you rode more than Gravel Bikes I would value your e-bike opinions more. Buh-Bye brownpownow


Ride away on private land but please respect the law on public land.


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## brownpownow (Jul 19, 2018)

mattkock said:


> I am so over you brownpownow. I am literally on the phone with Scott now and he said that the trails in Benotnville are on Private Land and *my motorcycle* will be more than welcome.


Reality check:

The OZ Trails incorporate trails on public and private land.



mattkock said:


> If you rode more than Gravel Bikes I would value your e-bike opinions more.


That's just you being confused again since I've been riding mountain bikes since 1988. The truth is that the many different types of bikes that I have ridden over the years allow me to easily understand that you're not riding a bike. It's a friggin' motorcycle.

Texas Mopeds
In Texas, a moped is defined as a motor-driven cycle that:

CANNOT drive faster than 30 MPH in 1 mile.
Has an engine that CANNOT generate more than 2 brake horsepower.
ADDITIONALLY, if has an internal combustion engine, the piston displacement must NOT exceed 50 cc, and the power drive system must NOT require the rider to shift gears.
*If your vehicle exceeds any of the above criteria, then it's automatically classified as a motorcycle.*​


mattkock said:


> Buh-Bye brownpownow


 Second time's the charm?


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

life behind bars said:


> Ride away on private land but please respect the law on public land.


He's good on most public land in Arkansas as well. Not that there is a lot of it worth riding but there's no explicit policy banning them.

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## brent701 (Sep 17, 2012)

Technically it's not a ebike, It has a motor over 750watts and a speed of over 20 MPH for Class 1 and 2, and 28 for Class 3. 

In AR
LOCAL: Consult your local land management agency
STATE: Arkansas State Parks or Arkansas Highway and Transportation
Department do not currently have an eMTB policy
FEDERAL: On federal lands, eMTBs are considered motorized vehicles
and have access to motorized trails

brownpownow also got the TX parts for it.

Motor is just too big. 
Can't compare it to your 32x16 Carbon SS that you would need to spin 194RPM to hit 33MPH,


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## mattkock (Mar 19, 2009)

OMG I clearly stated that I didn't hit 33 mph on the road on my SS. I said that through the trails my Paradox bike is Nowhere near as fast or quick as my SS. I am not nearly as fast on ANY section of or Entire loop of trail in Houston or Austin on the Paradox bike as I was my SS. I used to lead the "Fast Group" rides and now I ride somewhere in the rear of the "Medium Paced" group. Not a single person I have encountered on Any trail has had a problem with it Only people online that have Never seen one in person or ridden one or ridden near one. 

EVERY single person I have encountered on the trail has been super stoked to see me back out there. 

My let's say heavier set friend (215lbs) rode it in our neighborhood and could only get it up to 23mph so maybe I should just eat a Lot of Whataburger before OuterBike. Would that make you guys happy? 

Just like I said before I am just so happy to be back out on the trails even if I'm NOT Burning them up like I did on my 13lb. Carbon SS.

Man I miss my knee.


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## mattkock (Mar 19, 2009)

I wonder if Martyn Ashton has to answer all these questions. And before you get started yes I know Whistler is Private Land. This video always makes me cry because without MY friends I would still be riding my sofa. I Love them


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## brent701 (Sep 17, 2012)

mattkock said:


> OMG I clearly stated that I didn't hit 33 mph on the road on my SS. I said that through the trails my Paradox bike is Nowhere near as fast or quick as my SS. I am not nearly as fast on ANY section of or Entire loop of trail in Houston or Austin on the Paradox bike as I was my SS. I used to lead the "Fast Group" rides and now I ride somewhere in the rear of the "Medium Paced" group. Not a single person I have encountered on Any trail has had a problem with it Only people online that have Never seen one in person or ridden one or ridden near one.
> 
> EVERY single person I have encountered on the trail has been super stoked to see me back out there.
> 
> ...


What ever gets ya on the trails and legal is all good.

in my state, AZ. Ebikes are illegal in all Maricopa parks, Which has nearly all the trails within them but maybe a few city parks they are allowed. They also aren't allowed on the Private land we have some super fun trails on. They only allow Class 1 ebikes. You wouldn't even be able to use it has a Electric personal assistive mobility device here. Can't go over 15MPH.

The class for 1 and 2 is 20 MPH for a 170 lb rider
Even if someone larger could get it to 23. It still moved it out of a Class 1 and 2 ebike due to it's motor and still speed.

Cool your friend spent all this money for you to be able to ride., 
Would have been a fraction of the cost to just get a Class 1 Ebike and ride it.

Nice looking SS bike though. I love SS. have a 6 hour race coming up on it and 13 lbs is nuts light. I had my XC face bike down to 18lbs SS and 20lbs geared


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

brent701 said:


> The class for 1 and 2 is 20 MPH for a 170 lb rider
> Even if someone larger could get it to 23. It still moved it out of a Class 1 and 2 ebike due to it's motor and still speed.


That is not accurate. As long as the motor is not providing the power to get those 3+mph it would still be a Class 1 or 2 depending on throttle.

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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

mattkock said:


> I wonder if Martyn Ashton has to answer all these questions.


You don't have to either. IMO your situation and the ebike access controversy have little in common. Good luck and have fun!


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## brent701 (Sep 17, 2012)

tuckerjt07 said:


> That is not accurate. As long as the motor is not providing the power to get those 3+mph it would still be a Class 1 or 2 depending on throttle.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


That is true on the speed.

The motor still kicks it out of class 1 and 2


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

tuckerjt07 said:


> That is not accurate. As long as the motor is not providing the power to get those 3+mph it would still be a Class 1 or 2 depending on throttle.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Class 1/2 is soley dependant on the motor wattage rated by the manufacturer, and it having a speed limiter cut the power at 20mph. This system isn't in compliance with either. Who is riding it, how much they weigh and how they ride it has no bearing on what it is.

ftp://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/Bills/2017R/Public/HB2185.pdf

Arguing about who deserves access and why is all well and good on the internet, but the law defining what is an ebike is the law. Claiming it's an ebike based on the OP's desire for it to be one is pointless.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Harryman said:


> Class 1/2 is soley dependant on the motor wattage rated by the manufacturer, and it having a speed limiter cut the power at 20mph. This system isn't in compliance with either. Who is riding it, how much they weigh and how they ride it has no bearing on what it is.
> 
> ftp://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/Bills/2017R/Public/HB2185.pdf
> 
> Arguing about who deserves access and why is all well and good on the internet, but the law defining what is an ebike is the law. Claiming it's an ebike based on the OP's desire for it to be one is pointless.


Incorrect about speed. What you are describing is a governer, ie a top speed limiter, and that is not a requirement. The requirement states assistance must only be provided to x mph. If someone can accelerate past that under their own power than that does not effect the classification.

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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Incorrect about speed. What you are describing is a governer, ie a top speed limiter, and that is not a requirement. The requirement states assistance must only be provided to x mph. If someone can accelerate past that under their own power than that does not effect the classification.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Right. And your point is? His motorized bike doesn't have one, it'll provide power at any speed.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Harryman said:


> Right. And your point is? His motorized bike doesn't have one, it'll provide power at any speed.


Where did I say I was speaking specifically to his bike? I addressed a specific comment that was inaccurate in regards to how bikes are classified.

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## brent701 (Sep 17, 2012)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Where did I say I was speaking specifically to his bike? I addressed a specific comment that was inaccurate in regards to how bikes are classified.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


 15 U.S.C. § 2085
Under federal law, an electric bicycle is referred to as a "low-speed electric bicycle," which is
defined as "a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of
less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered
solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20
mph." Significantly, this definition provides a maximum assisted speed that an electric bicycle
can travel when being powered only by the motor, but does not provide a maximum assisted
speed for when an electric bicycle is being powered by a combination of human and motor
power


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

brent701 said:


> 15 U.S.C. § 2085
> Under federal law, an electric bicycle is referred to as a "low-speed electric bicycle," which is
> defined as "a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of
> less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered
> ...


Exactly, speed alone is not enough. The motor has to be involved.

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## brent701 (Sep 17, 2012)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Exactly, speed alone is not enough. The motor has to be involved.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Which his is and its too big. lol

Sorry my post was worded badly.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

brent701 said:


> Which his is and its too big. lol
> 
> Sorry my post was worded badly.


Yeah, sorry I wasn't really attacking your post, just trying to add clarification. My end could have been worded better as well.

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## brent701 (Sep 17, 2012)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Yeah, sorry I wasn't really attacking your post, just trying to add clarification. My end could have been worded better as well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


It's all good.

Clearing things up is good and I enjoy the info that keeps being added to this.

The laws on ebikes are just kind of blah and sucks that they differ from state to state so widely.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

brownpownow said:


> You are not believable.


Wow....that thing is scary.


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## mattkock (Mar 19, 2009)

Yeah I wish I could get a Class 1 or 2 e-bike but like I stated several times before my right leg is completely unable to make a complete pedal stroke. I cannot pedal at all so it was the Paradox or find a new hobby.


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## brent701 (Sep 17, 2012)

mattkock said:


> Yeah I wish I could get a Class 1 or 2 e-bike but like I stated several times before my right leg is completely unable to make a complete pedal stroke. I cannot pedal at all so it was the Paradox or find a new hobby.


So what happens if the battery was to die while out riding, you gonna pedal it back? what if you take a fall and something happens to the bike and you no longer can use the motor? gonna pedal it back?


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## tahoebeau (May 11, 2014)

brent701 said:


> So what happens if the battery was to die while out riding, you gonna pedal it back? what if you take a fall and something happens to the bike and you no longer can use the motor? gonna pedal it back?


What happens if you break your chain and don't have a quick link and can't fix? What if you get a flat and don't have a tube and can't fix? What happens if you taco a rim or break a pedal?


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## brent701 (Sep 17, 2012)

tahoebeau said:


> What happens if you break your chain and don't have a quick link and can't fix? What if you get a flat and don't have a tube and can't fix? What happens if you taco a rim or break a pedal?


i'll walk out with my 24lb bike not a 47 lb bike with a bad knee

I also carry parts to be able to fix basic **** while out riding. I don't see someone carrying a battery, electrical parts to fix it.. also if you can't pedal it from the get go. makes it a little harder if something does happen

but I get your point


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Damn, let’s all take a breath! It’s just a forum on the internet, no worries! Everyone’s good.


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## brent701 (Sep 17, 2012)

Gutch said:


> Damn, let's all take a breath! It's just a forum on the internet, no worries! Everyone's good.


agree. 
hell I should be out riding. 5 races this month


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

mtnbikej said:


> Wow....that thing is scary.


As much as I love the design on this Paradox kit. On the descent you can still hear the motor giving full torque. It's also ridiculously fast and powerful.

I hope they build a class 1 compliant kit. I'll buy one if they do.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

OP, is there a reason you couldn't ride a class 1 with one leg? I've built a couple different frames for amputees and they can mountain bike with just one leg (with some mods to the frame/setup, of course). On a class 1 it seems like you could just pedal with your good leg and it would work great. 

-Walt


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Walt said:


> OP, is there a reason you couldn't ride a class 1 with one leg? I've built a couple different frames for amputees and they can mountain bike with just one leg (with some mods to the frame/setup, of course). On a class 1 it seems like you could just pedal with your good leg and it would work great.
> 
> -Walt


I think you're on to something. It might take a controller hack, to get it through the dead spot, but it could potentially work.

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## brent701 (Sep 17, 2012)

Walt said:


> OP, is there a reason you couldn't ride a class 1 with one leg? I've built a couple different frames for amputees and they can mountain bike with just one leg (with some mods to the frame/setup, of course). On a class 1 it seems like you could just pedal with your good leg and it would work great.
> 
> -Walt


A older guy in AZ races a geared bike with one leg. 
A 6th grader races the NICA racers here with one arm and it's badass to watch.
Neither of them are on a ebike


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## og-mtb (Sep 23, 2018)

brent701 said:


> A older guy in AZ races a geared bike with one leg.
> A 6th grader races the NICA racers here with one arm and it's badass to watch.
> Neither of them are on a ebike


NICA Norcal badass from Salinas racing with my son at Granite Bay a few years ago.









Backstory:

https://www.si.com/edge/2016/05/04/salinas-california-kc-fontes-one-legged-mountain-biker


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

That’s awesome.


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

mattkock said:


> Well after losing the use of my right knee Christmas Eve 2015 I have only been able to Downhill mountain bike in the summers since then. Well back in March a good friend of mine got me a Moustache Pedal Assist Tandem. We took the chain off the front ring so I just coast, steer, shift and brake up there while my Stoker does all of the pedaling. I have ridden all of the local Houston, Texas trails and even made it to Bentonville Arkansas. Just when I thought he was the best friend I ever had he went and got a Paradox Kinetics motor for his NS Snabb Plus and has just left it in my garage to use until I get my knee replacement. That's right since March of this year my buddy has spent $6,800 on the Tandem and $6,500 on the Snabb plus the $2,800 Paradox motor for it on me. I seriously have the best friends ever. I have even got my wife to Stoker for me.
> 
> Most common questions are, What does the Tandem weigh? 75lbs. How much does the Snabb Plus weigh? 37lbs. What is the run time for the Paradox motor? 3-4 hours and how fast does the Paradox go? I have had it up to 33mph on flat ground.
> 
> If anyone is going to be in Bentonville for OuterBike October 26-28 and you see me say Hi. I will only have the NS Snabb there but I'll be all over that place.


Thanks for that post! Ignore the haters. I rode a tandem for many years. There are a couple of obvious problems with the tandem that the purists haters either can't see or willfully ignore. First, riding a tandem on single track is extremely difficult. (especially if your wife is of a normal weight). There is no threat of speed on single track with a tandem. Secondly, Ebike motors that are run on high power overheat and go into de-rate on bikes with single riders. That problem would only be compounded with two riders. You and your wife would weigh 300 lbs minimum. A more typical couple could be 400 lbs plus the bike weight. That ebike motor isn't going to pull any hills with any kind of speed at full power for very long ,if at all. The motor will get hot, de-rate the voltage, and limit the speed. You are also going to have to be careful with gear changes so as to not break the chain. Two people pedaling plus motor torque equals broken chains. If I was to go get crazy on my ebike and ride at these phantom speeds quoted by the purists, I could break a chain at will. Thirdly, pedal strikes riding off road on a tandem are double the fun and require great care to avoid.

Happy trails! (p.s. you should post your write up at EMTB forums. Much more friendly atmosphere without the uppity haters)


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

None of the purist haters said a peep about his tandem, just his 30+ mph moped.


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

Just got back from a 3 week west trip with two e bikes rode Grand Junction ,moab dead horse point , Cortez CO Phil's world Bentonville is next!!!


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## mattkock (Mar 19, 2009)

OMG just got back from OuterBike and it was INCREDIBLE!!! Not a single person I have met in real life has anything but Hugs and Positivity for my Ride. Met SO many great folks and rode SO many great trails. Got to meet my Favorite youtuber Jeff Kendall-Weed (look him up and subscribe, he RIPS) and he said I should get my own youtube channel to inspire other handicapped (adaptive) riders. Who know maybe I will. People keep saying just get a class 1 or 2 ebike (one legged guys ride regular bikes) and that's true and if I had my leg amputated I could actually make pedal strokes but as it is now I cannot. My knee can only straighten to about 35 degrees and bend to about 85 degrees. Hopefully my Paradozx bike is a temporary measure that has gotten me back on a bike before my knee replacement. Here is my other e-ride at the Texas Renaissance Festival a couple weeks. Maybe people won't hate on this one but if they do I guess now I couldn't care less.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

mattkock said:


> OMG just got back from OuterBike and it was INCREDIBLE!!! Not a single person I have met in real life has anything but Hugs and Positivity for my Ride. Met SO many great folks and rode SO many great trails. Got to meet my Favorite youtuber Jeff Kendall-Weed (look him up and subscribe, he RIPS) and he said I should get my own youtube channel to inspire other handicapped (adaptive) riders. Who know maybe I will. People keep saying just get a class 1 or 2 ebike (one legged guys ride regular bikes) and that's true and if I had my leg amputated I could actually make pedal strokes but as it is now I cannot. My knee can only straighten to about 35 degrees and bend to about 85 degrees. Hopefully my Paradozx bike is a temporary measure that has gotten me back on a bike before my knee replacement. Here is my other e-ride at the Texas Renaissance Festival a couple weeks. Maybe people won't hate on this one but if they do I guess now I couldn't care less.


I'm glad you had a good time. It was cool seeing so many people from so many places enjoying our trails.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

Right on Mattkock! The trail experience is definitely a positive vibe. The opponents are very loud on the web/social media. But tight lipped in person. 

Honestly, I WAS an Emtb hater in the beginning until an injury made me look into Ebikes. It was ALL SMILES, from that day on...

Happy trails!


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

Walt said:


> OP, is there a reason you couldn't ride a class 1 with one leg? I've built a couple different frames for amputees and they can mountain bike with just one leg (with some mods to the frame/setup, of course). On a class 1 it seems like you could just pedal with your good leg and it would work great.
> 
> -Walt


I believe he said his leg with the bad knee can't make a complete pedal stroke without locking up. That could make it difficult even if he could pedal the bike with one leg as he would still need to do something with his leg with the bad knee. Maybe a footpeg on that side?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Interesting to see that it didn't take long for MTBR's no throttle/no hacking and no poaching ban to fall by the wayside. While I am not in favour of either activity at least it's an honest reflection of where we are going with e-bikes/e-mopeds/e-motos.

If you are a land manager and considering allowing pedal assist e-bikes you need to understand that means allowing anything that looks vaguely e-bike shaped regardless of speed potential/power or need to move one's legs.


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## figofspee (Jul 19, 2018)

vikb said:


> If you are a land manager and considering allowing pedal assist e-bikes you need to understand that means allowing anything that looks vaguely e-bike shaped regardless of speed potential/power or need to move one's legs.


Hmmm, don't all bicycles vaguely resemble electric assist bikes? So land managers can easily distinguish a e-stumpjumper from a regular stumpy but cannot distinguish an e-stumpjumper from an electric dirtbike. Is that what you are saying?


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Texas is quite liberal for whats on the books.

Electric motors labelled as 500W could possibly breach 1492W or 2hp, its just a matter of how long before the smoke pours out of the motors windings depending on the winding "count" of the motor, or the gears break. Also depends on the total weight, mass of motor for heat shedding, motor characteristics, etc etc etc etc. Comparing it to auto's: should auto co's limit their engine hp. No need for 300+hp anything besides semi's. Thats why theres speed limits right. Its an interesting angle to compare to.

30MPH is quite fast, about 50kph on a bicycle is crazy! I have only done that once and I think I got to about 37mph(60kph) and that is downhill and it was scary. I like to cruise at appropriate speeds, I find 15-20mph is a decent speed, not sure how fast commuters like go in various countries around the world with their different laws, if any. I prefer hill climbing ability over speed. So in a way, a 100lb drug addict has the same e-laws as a 340lb McDonalds lover who is bringing home his 80lbs of groceries, or better yet, an e-pedicab with 900lbs (three big big big dudes). Another interesting angle to compare things to.

Side note: As for instant torque on electrics, true, but the drag races I've seen on YT with Tesla's show that e's are great for the short distance, but getting up to speed and staying there, fumes win out race e's. I think it was the trio of Richard, James, and Jeremy (Top Gear/Grand Tour) did a test, which I found an interesting point that proves on a longer distance fumes win. Be the same for motorcycle vs ebikes too I would imagine right.



brownpownow said:


> Previous video "instant torque, everywhere." And yes, I watched the entire video. I would suggest that you do the same before commenting further.
> 
> It looks like it's not a Moped in Texas. It's a motorcycle.
> 
> ...


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