# Article: Where Are the Women Riders



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

http://www.biketraffic.org/biketraffic/BT0805/gender.html



> Where Are the Women Riders?
> The real face of cycling will not be found in industry publications
> 
> By Sherry Daun
> ...


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

Interesting and true.


To add to this.... 
Several years ago there were the Rock Shox "Date With ___" adds. One had a very skinny young woman with a painted on bike tan. I saw it but did not think much except how they sank to the common sex to sell crap. 

The woman who is now the chair of the Texas Bicycle Coalition wrote RS a letter about how upset she was with their advertising. The response she got was disgusting. It went something like "don't all women cyclist wish they looked like the girl in the add?" That response has had me personally on a many year boycott of RS. How incredible idiotic. 

They seem to have no concept that a large majority of the women cyclists are over 30, well educated, and have plenty of spare cash for toys. 20 year old anerexic looking women have little time, money, or interest in $450 shocks.


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## SheFly (Aug 11, 2004)

*Great Article!*

Thanks for sharing that one, Formica! I just picked up the latest issue of Bicycling magazine and definitely noted the target audience was NOT women. In fact, I was horrified to discover an ad in the back of the magazine featuring Jenna Jameson (or at least someone that really looked like her) advertising a product that was intended to enhance sexual positions... WTF?????

WHEN oh WHEN will the industry learn that we are major consumers and that we are as interested in riding hard and getting dirty as the men????

SheFly

(sorry for the soapbox, but I was really ticked at the ad I found....)


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## Debaser (Jan 12, 2004)

*yup yup!*

It's a sad state of affairs. Mountain biking in particular feels too much like the old boys club in the media, and even out on rides. I love it when my wife is out riding trails, or riding her road bike to work (as she's doing this morning). And I loved seeing a ton of women competing at the laramie Enduro, most riding stringer than me.

There's hope. I just wish I knew how to help other women enjoy the sport more, at whatever level they might be comfortable with.


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## alaskarider (Aug 31, 2004)

*In my own little universe*

Here in Colorado's Front Range, I see tons of women cyclists (mountain and road), runners, rock climbers, skiers, mountaineers, etc., many of whom are just as hard core as the men. Sometimes I forget that there's a whole other world out there where athletic women aren't so easy to find. Thanks for the article.


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## Debaser (Jan 12, 2004)

alaskarider said:


> Here in Colorado's Front Range, I see tons of women cyclists (mountain and road), runners, rock climbers, skiers, mountaineers, etc., many of whom are just as hard core as the men. Sometimes I forget that there's a whole other world out there where athletic women aren't so easy to find. Thanks for the article.


Yes, there are a lot of women participating in sports in Colorado - a much higher rate than most other places I can think of. But there's rarely an equal number of men and women out on bikes, even for simple commuting around the neighborhoods, etc.

Here's an example, from memory, so I hope it's correct. Take both Excel Sports Boulder and Colorado Cyclist's catalogs and check out the action photos of people: Seems to me there's models for the women's clothes (and they are the model type, not the average women type) but little if any action shots of women riding.


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## SheFly (Aug 11, 2004)

Debaser said:


> Here's an example, from memory, so I hope it's correct. Take both Excel Sports Boulder and Colorado Cyclist's catalogs and check out the action photos of people: Seems to me there's models for the women's clothes (and they are the model type, not the average women type) but little if any action shots of women riding.


And the quantity of products for women in these catalogs is definitely MUCH less than for the men...

SheFly


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## alaskarider (Aug 31, 2004)

*I agree*



> Originally posted by *Debaser*
> 
> Here's an example, from memory, so I hope it's correct. Take both Excel Sports Boulder and Colorado Cyclist's catalogs and check out the action photos of people: Seems to me there's models for the women's clothes (and they are the model type, not the average women type) but little if any action shots of women riding.


The advertising is definitely geared towards men. I was just thinking about my real-life experiences and going off on a tangent.


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

I sometimes wonder if the perception of bicycling as "dangerous" is what holds it back from being embraced by more women. 

Just look at these ads.... guys hucking, jumping, blood-spattered, etc. Not to say that none of us gals DON'T get a wild hair and get scabs (as the photos posted here will attest), but IN GENERAL most women I know avoid the prospect of pain or danger like the plague. So they go walking or do yoga or take the car to do some short errand instead of even considering the bike.

*As a whole* cycling as utility/fitness/entertainment is really really really safe, and I think we've done a remarkably poor job of promoting that aspect of the sport. In fact, the late great Ken Keifer had a lot of compelling stats on his website suggesting just how much safer riding a bike was than driving a car.

As a pregnant woman who's toodling around on flat roads and gravel at 33 weeks, people are always clucking about DANGER... but they don't even think twice about my 40 mile round trip car commute through areas containing giant herds of deer.


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## roman (May 25, 2005)

Quick Google search and:

http://www.tourdetoona.com/sponsor/cyc_demo.asp#four

Statistics is a tricky thing. Cycling demographics on this page are taken from the National Sporting Goods Association Report for 1997, and it suggests a whopping 45% female participation! 2004 report shows similar result. But if you go to the www.nsga.org and check out the 2004 report, you'll find out that they questions respondents of 7 years and older and the question was: "have you participated more than once?". That means that if you are a 7 year old girl who rode her pink with white tires WalMart bike two times in your entire life, you have participated in the sport! 

In reality female participation is very low.

Racing demographics, which shows 89% male 11% female participation is going to reflect cycling enthusiast population more closely that a NSGA's report. Real female participation may not be that low, but it will be very close. Again I'm talking about cycling enthusiasts that spend thousands of dollars on equipment and train regularly.

This report gives more accurate picture even though it covers only east coast
http://www.ridezine.com/online media kit.htm#DEMOGRAPHICS

I'm confident that as soon as female riders start eating beans and water for three months just to be able to afford a $700 fork purchase, Marzocchi will replace their bomber girls with bomber dudes.


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## catzilla (Jan 31, 2004)

SheFly said:


> In fact, I was horrified to discover an ad in the back of the magazine featuring Jenna Jameson (or at least someone that really looked like her) advertising a product that was intended to enhance sexual positions... WTF?????


Now, don't go knocking The Wedge...


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## kawboy8 (May 5, 2004)

Women are hotter than men...even women will admit that. The topic has been brought up many times. Beer advertisements...geez I only drink beer because of them. Well...not really, well kind of. Why complain about something that will never change? Sex does sell...or at least gets attention, then the product takes over. Lets just enjoy the ads, anorexic women and all. bomber girls rule!!



roman said:


> Quick Google search and:
> 
> http://www.tourdetoona.com/sponsor/cyc_demo.asp#four
> 
> ...


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

kawboy8 said:


> Women are hotter than men...even women will admit that. The topic has been brought up many times. Beer advertisements...geez I only drink beer because of them. Well...not really, well kind of. Why complain about something that will never change? Sex does sell...or at least gets attention, then the product takes over. Lets just enjoy the ads, anorexic women and all. bomber girls rule!!


sex may sell to men, but I'd venture a guess that it does NOT sell to (most) women. It certainly does not to me. If anything, it just pisses me off and has me taking my "ate ramen for 3 months" dollars someplace else.

formica


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## SheFly (Aug 11, 2004)

catzilla said:


> Now, don't go knocking The Wedge...


  

Not knocking the product (in fact, it was rather intriguing  )! Just not sure of its appropriateness in a cycling magazine....

SheFly


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## kawboy8 (May 5, 2004)

Maybe saying it sells is not the right way to put it. It gets the attention for sure. We all know those women are not mtn bikers or atheletes at all. they are just decoration.


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## dirtnapper (Aug 3, 2005)

I often see as many women as men at the trail head and it has always puzzled me that most bike companies do such a poor job of marketing to us. Maybe with better marketing there would be more women than men on the trails? I also live in colorado so I can't speak for other areas.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

dirtnapper said:


> I often see as many women as men at the trail head and it has always puzzled me that most bike companies do such a poor job of marketing to us. Maybe with better marketing there would be more women than men on the trails? I also live in colorado so I can't speak for other areas.


It's that old catch 22: they say that when there's enough of a market segment, THEN they will market too us. But they aren't willing to market to a group to help grow the market segment into something worth marketing to...

did that make sense.

My lastest marketing rant, The Title 9 catalog which is all women's active wear, has lots of real world models on mountain bikes in thier catalog. However, they don't sell any bike clothing!!! Yoga, running, climbing etc. I even called the company and ranted to them about that oversight.

I'm full of hope, we've been getting lots of gals out on the trails on a weekly basis around here.

formica


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## amg (Nov 8, 2004)

kawboy8 said:


> bomber girls rule!!


Yeah, Katrina Strand and Lisa Lefroi are awesome riders. It's nice to see that Marzocchi has finally noticed that women actually RIDE bikes, and that the Bomber Girls can do more than just stand around in skimpy clothing holding mountain bike forks while surrounded by flames. They even made them custom hot pink 888s.


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## Bikehigh (Jan 14, 2004)

formica said:


> sex may sell to men, but I'd venture a guess that it does NOT sell to (most) women. It certainly does not to me. If anything, it just pisses me off and has me taking my "ate ramen for 3 months" dollars someplace else.
> 
> formica


I don't suppose you've taken a look in any women's magazines, like Cosmo, or Glamour, or Vogue in a while? There's so much sex in those magazines, that that's what I pick up when I go to get my hair cut! Whether women like to admit it or not, sex absolutely sells to women. Busting on Madison Avenue doesn't change the fact that a lot of research goes into figuring out what sells. Sexy women in ads sells to both men and women. Women want to imagine they can more like the women in the ads, and men want their women to be more like the women in the ads. It's just the way it is.


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## Debaser (Jan 12, 2004)

Bikehigh said:


> I don't suppose you've taken a look in any women's magazines, like Cosmo, or Glamour, or Vogue in a while? There's so much sex in those magazines, that that's what I pick up when I go to get my hair cut! Whether women like to admit it or not, sex absolutely sells to women. Busting on Madison Avenue doesn't change the fact that a lot of research goes into figuring out what sells. Sexy women in ads sells to both men and women. Women want to imagine they can more like the women in the ads, and men want their women to be more like the women in the ads. It's just the way it is.


I'd have to agree here: I've heard somewhere that the notion behind a lot of the "sexy marketing" revolves around an womanly image that women want to emulate and men want to be with.


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## brg (Sep 7, 2004)

Bikehigh said:


> Women want to imagine they can more like the women in the ads, and men want their women to be more like the women in the ads. It's just the way it is.


When I look at women in the typical womens magazines - I think "yuck! no muscle tone in those legs. Betcha she wouldn't last on a 25mile ride with 3k of climbing. I don't want to be that skinny"

My* main* thing about mtn biking is wanting to stay on my bike and clean all the technical sections. I love riding that stuff.

BUT with that said - do I want to look good? Absolutely!

However, my idea of looking good is having a body like Shonny Vanlandingham tho - not those skinny, air brushed models. Shonny is down-to-earth, fast as hell on a bike, a great technical rider and she's without a doubt a "hottie".

Formica - didn't you once post that you secretly wished your son's friends would think you were hot??


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## Debaser (Jan 12, 2004)

formica said:


> It's that old catch 22: they say that when there's enough of a market segment, THEN they will market too us. But they aren't willing to market to a group to help grow the market segment into something worth marketing to...
> 
> did that make sense.
> 
> ...


There's more women related products now than 7 years ago: seats, bikes, shoes, gloves, more clothes, things are definately headed in the right direction, it would seem.

I'd still like to see more women involved in the sport, even in Colorado. It enriches the whole experience to spend time on the trails with both sexes, different races, etc.


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

formica said:


> ...My lastest marketing rant, The Title 9 catalog which is all women's active wear, has lots of real world models on mountain bikes in thier catalog. However, they don't sell any bike clothing!!! Yoga, running, climbing etc. I even called the company and ranted to them about that oversight....


I'm right there with ya sistah! Let it be said that my mother, my sister, and I LOVE Title 9 (their Frog Bra is absolutely HEAVEN SENT). Still, I'm somewhat dissapointed catalog after catalog that doesn't even include recommendations or descriptions mentioning cycling.


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## alaskarider (Aug 31, 2004)

*I'm with brg here*



brg said:


> When I look at women in the typical womens magazines - I think "yuck! no muscle tone in those legs. Betcha she wouldn't last on a 25mile ride with 3k of climbing. I don't want to be that skinny"
> 
> My* main* thing about mtn biking is wanting to stay on my bike and clean all the technical sections. I love riding that stuff.
> 
> ...


Honest and truly, I don't want to look like the women in most of those fashion magazines, either, and don't want to be with a man who wants me to look like that. I'm all for looking like a lady when the time is right (got my hair done professionally for the first time in my life this past weekend as a bridesmaid, and gosh darned if I didn't like the result), but not if it means I'm not fit enough to enjoy riding, skiing, climbing, etc. with my fiance and my friends.

As many posters have said, marketing does have an influence on what people want, which is why we athletic women can get annoyed by those advertisements featuring women who can't actually do the sport they're advertising.

Most of the time, though, I just ignore the catalogs with their ads and search for bike stuff on the internet.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

brg said:


> When I look at women in the typical womens magazines - I think "yuck! no muscle tone in those legs. Betcha she wouldn't last on a 25mile ride with 3k of climbing. I don't want to be that skinny"
> 
> My* main* thing about mtn biking is wanting to stay on my bike and clean all the technical sections. I love riding that stuff.
> 
> ...


oh man, don't bust me on that one 

Sure, I'll admit I'd like to be admired for being fit, active and having a cool sport, but that doesn't mean that I respond to T& A marketing.

I can't think of the last time I looked at a women's magazine, unless you count reading Glamor "don'ts" while in the check out line.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

alaskarider said:


> As many posters have said, marketing does have an influence on what people want, which is why we athletic women can get annoyed by those advertisements featuring women who can't actually do the sport they're advertising.
> 
> Most of the time, though, I just ignore the catalogs with their ads and search for bike stuff on the internet.


yes, that's it, thanks.



brg said:


> However, my idea of looking good is having a body like Shonny Vanlandingham tho - not those skinny, air brushed models. Shonny is down-to-earth, fast as hell on a bike, a great technical rider and she's without a doubt a "hottie".


Shonny:


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

Bikehigh said:


> I don't suppose you've taken a look in any women's magazines, like Cosmo, or Glamour, or Vogue in a while? There's so much sex in those magazines, that that's what I pick up when I go to get my hair cut! .


Not every woman feels compelled to read these mags. I can't recall the last time I bought a cosmo, but I regularly buy biking magazines. I don't need advice on how to have sex or entrap a guy or how to spend 5 zillion dollars on clothes that will go out of style by the time I hit the "post" key.

The sexy ads in the bike mags are not effective for me as a woman, either. For example, I'm still irritated with pedros for that stripper ad last year and refuse to buy their products for that reason. I'm not 18 and stupid and think "wow I could be a sexy STRIPPER if I used pedros!!!!". C'mon.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

This is what got me so angry when our local website turned a blind eye to the guys posting porn links.

I'm not some delicate flower that wants to pretend porn doesn't exist, but the webmaster's immediate reaction was to put up a Women's Only Lounge, where the women on the site could get passwords 

This was totally not the answer and I was very vocal about it. I didn't care if people thought I was a raving lunatic, as one of the moderators, I didn't want the few women on the site (or those lurking) to feel alienated.

It's hard enough feeling like an object for men's amusement while riding alone, or having a riding buddy's wife assume you're some kind of tramp because you're "riding with all those guys." Hey, if I want to sleep with married men, I'll just go to my local bar instead of sweating my ass off in the dirt.  It would be much easier and less expensive.

You guys don't get it: Continue to alienate females with ads that make MTB seem like a Men's Only club, and you'll forever be whining, "Why aren't there more chicks on the trails?" Boo effing hooo!!!

I agree that seeing female *role models* is inspiring, and I agree that they're all beautiful. I would love to look like any of them. They're not anorexic, they're in great shape. I don't necessarily want to see them in string bikinis.

And I'm a big proponent of more hunky dudes in ads. You guys want more women riding? Let's put some hot hunks in lycra holding a Rock Shox


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## alaskarider (Aug 31, 2004)

Christine said:


> You guys don't get it: Continue to alienate females with ads that make MTB seem like a Men's Only club, and you'll forever be whining, "Why aren't there more chicks on the trails?" Boo effing hooo!!!


Great point!

Personally, I think MTB ads should feature (male & female) mountain bikers, not supermodels of either gender.


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## pfunk (Jan 12, 2004)

verslowrdr said:


> As a pregnant woman who's toodling around on flat roads and gravel at 33 weeks, people are always clucking about DANGER... but they don't even think twice about my 40 mile round trip car commute through areas containing giant herds of deer.


Still riding huh? That's great! I just moved to a ranch in Texas and am really enjoying riding the double track on our property. I'm just about 15 weeks now and hope to keep riding for at least a few months yet.


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## Debaser (Jan 12, 2004)

Christine said:


> This is what got me so angry when our local website turned a blind eye to the guys posting porn links.
> 
> I'm not some delicate flower that wants to pretend porn doesn't exist, but the webmaster's immediate reaction was to put up a Women's Only Lounge, where the women on the site could get passwords
> 
> ...


This is an white man's sport, today, here and now. But is it caused by the advertisements in magazines and catalogs we get?

Is it caused by the high-ish prices for equipment?

Is it because more boys play outside sports more than girls, and follow that into adulthood?

Is it because women are more concerned about their safety than men?

Ok, there's what I really believe, it's a safety concern that keeps women away from starting cycling. You're more likely to get banged up or bloody from cycling than say hiking. Spending time in desolate areas might lead to some sort of attack, via animals, humans, whatever. You're afraid of jeopardizing your health that you need to take care of your family, etc. And for whatever reason, these are the reasons that when push comes to shove, some women decide to pick up some other, "safer" activity for fun.

How far offbase is this?


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

pfunk said:


> Still riding huh? That's great! I just moved to a ranch in Texas and am really enjoying riding the double track on our property. I'm just about 15 weeks now and hope to keep riding for at least a few months yet.


Too cool on the property!

Just did an hour ride this morning before work while it was still cool outside, just putting around on the old quiet 2 lane highway. Highlight was seeing a mama deer and a pretty small fawn across the river, and it was a surreal moment...

I had noticed some ribs showing in the bathroom mirror this AM when I lifted my arms to do something. As of the last Dr appt 3 weeks ago I'd only gained 9 pounds altogether and the midwife sorta chided me about it. I'm eating very well and as much as I feel like, although my appetite has been somewhat deadend since early 1st trimester and never fully recovered... however, baby is doing great and growing like crazy so no one is declaring anything amiss.

Standing on the side of the road and looking across the river, I could see the doe and the fawn picking downstream through the river rock and willow saplings at water's edge. A few ribs were showing, but her hair was slick and even and she was carrying a thick layer of muscle over her haunch. The fawn was also looking slick and spry. I had a flash back to my morning in the mirror... hey, if that slightly ribby but muscled look is obviously working well for momma deer and her fawn, it will be fine for us.


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## Bikehigh (Jan 14, 2004)

Christine said:


> You guys don't get it: Continue to alienate females with ads that make MTB seem like a Men's Only club, and you'll forever be whining, "Why aren't there more chicks on the trails?" Boo effing hooo!!!
> 
> I agree that seeing female *role models* is inspiring, and I agree that they're all beautiful. I would love to look like any of them. They're not anorexic, they're in great shape. I don't necessarily want to see them in string bikinis.
> 
> And I'm a big proponent of more hunky dudes in ads. You guys want more women riding? Let's put some hot hunks in lycra holding a Rock Shox


You seriously think that the ads in cycling magazines keep women off the trails and out of the sport? Are yuou kidding me? It's amazing that you give women such little credit. Did these same ads keep you out of the sport? I thinbk you're letting your personal biases and hostility affect your judgement.

And FYI, I really don't care if there are more women on the trails. I'm not one of the gfuys who comes here wondering were all the hotties are on the trail. Women who like to ride, will ride. Just like you. If they're gonna let the fact that a few ads feature bikini clad models keep them from riding, then it's probably better that they're not out there skidding down the trails I like to ride.

Flame on


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## SheFly (Aug 11, 2004)

Bikehigh said:


> If they're gonna let the fact that a few ads feature bikini clad models keep them from riding, then it's probably better that they're not out there skidding down the trails I like to ride.
> 
> Flame on


I don't think the ads will keep women from riding, as you say. I do, however, think it will make us think twice about purchasing the products IN the ads (supporting a particular manufacturer, subscribing to a magazine, etc.).

Like you said, I ride because it is part of who I am. I will, however, think twice about my next subscription to Bicycling magazine....

SheFly


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

pfunk said:


> Still riding huh? That's great! I just moved to a ranch in Texas and am really enjoying riding the double track on our property. I'm just about 15 weeks now and hope to keep riding for at least a few months yet.


Welcome to Texas. Where is this ranch? Most of the best mtb in Texas is on private ranches.


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## VA2SLOride (Feb 17, 2005)

*That's why.....*

......you got to love pics like this:


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## pfunk (Jan 12, 2004)

verslowrdr said:


> .
> Standing on the side of the road and looking across the river, I could see the doe and the fawn picking downstream through the river rock and willow saplings at water's edge. A few ribs were showing, but her hair was slick and even and she was carrying a thick layer of muscle over her haunch. The fawn was also looking slick and spry. I had a flash back to my morning in the mirror... hey, if that slightly ribby but muscled look is obviously working well for momma deer and her fawn, it will be fine for us.


Well, let me know if you see a chubby mamma deer looking as goodl. I've already gained 11 lbs  I never actually got sick in the early months. I felt really sick for most of the 2nd month and the only thing that made me feel better was to eat constantly! Gained 8 lbs that month.

Either way, as long as the little one is thriving, that's all that matters


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## pfunk (Jan 12, 2004)

CycleMainiac said:


> Welcome to Texas. Where is this ranch? Most of the best mtb in Texas is on private ranches.


thanks 

Hope to be "riding like a girl" next spring/summer on some of your rides.

We're about 70 miles northwest of Austin in Lampasas County. About 25 miles west of Fort Hood.


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

pfunk said:


> ..Either way, as long as the little one is thriving, that's all that matters


'ZACKLY. I didn't imagine it would have ended up this way at all! I told my sister when I first got preg that if I gained 60 pounds and the baby was healthy, it was all A-OK by me.

I keep exercising because it's good for us- not at all to keep from gaining weight. In fact, I gotta stuff my face and fly to work.....


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## chad1433 (Apr 5, 2004)

SheFly said:


> Thanks for sharing that one, Formica! I just picked up the latest issue of Bicycling magazine and definitely noted the target audience was NOT women. In fact, I was horrified to discover an ad in the back of the magazine featuring Jenna Jameson (or at least someone that really looked like her) advertising a product that was intended to enhance sexual positions... WTF?????
> 
> WHEN oh WHEN will the industry learn that we are major consumers and that we are as interested in riding hard and getting dirty as the men????
> 
> ...


That thing is quite obviously a BIKE RAMP intended for jumping. And Jenna is more into Marzocchi..


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

Ads don't prevent women from wanting to bike- we're living proof of that, and we see tons of 'em. 

I just don't like the brazenly macho image it gives the sport, which doesn't help our cause at all. A newbie woman who sees that kind of stuff would feel that much more like she's out of her element.

Is she smart enough to understand that it's just an ad? Yeah, but either start balancing it with more hunky male models, or cut back on the cheesecake. Give the betties something they can relate to! You don't hang out in strip clubs to meet women, so if you want more women in the sport, it helps if it doesn't feel like one. Yes it's a stretch but it's also a rant 

And I disagree about women liking to see female models to "emulate." What we see in ads is impossible to emulate, which is what compels us to run out and buy the products, in hopes that THAT will be the solution. Nothing like seeing page after page after page of scrawny airbrushed teenage girls to make me feel like total crap.

Seeing female mtb'ers is a different story, though. It's inspiring and real.


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## Bikehigh (Jan 14, 2004)

Hmm, well said. 

With regard to the ads though, I don't think it's even close to the machoness displayed in the photo images used throughout various magazines. If I was to look at the images of riders launching themselves off of cliffs and boulders, and riding bridges 10 feet off the ground, and if was to conclude that that's what mountain biking is all about, you can bet your sweet ass that I'd never even think about swinging a leg over an MTB. Luckily for me though, I got introduced to mountainbiking not through magazines, but by being out on the trails hiking and seeing nikers in action. I'm willing to bet that most of us are drawn to the sport in a similar way, and then we pick up the magazines. By then it's too late. We're hooked. Look, the culture is what the culture is. It is a male dominated sport, and a young one at that. I'm fifteen years older than most of the guys I ride with for crying out loud. Most of the guys my age are out there riding around on electric carts whacking a little white ball around and calling it sport. I'm not sure this kind of ***** session, pardon my crudeness, is all that productive. Rather than expecting the culture that exists to change, perhaps the answer is for women to create their own ride culture.

Yeah, with regard to feeling like total crap, try being a forty something guy with a hairy back, and six pack abs that are in there somewhere  these days. It's not just the women who are under pressure to keep up appearances any more.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

_It's not just the women who are under pressure to keep up appearances any more._

GOOD!  

So true about the stunt-riding, I do think it is that kind of portrayal that keeps people away. I try to remind my friends/family "That's not what *I* do!" or "I walked THAT section." Definitely helped me warm up to the technical trails, knowing I didn't have to ride every part of them.


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## Dude (Jan 12, 2004)

*May I put my .02¢ in ?*

Can we go back to that Bicycling ad... You know for the longest time they had the stupid ad about some Texas woman who found the secret and gave something to her husband and now their sex life is grand. Now they have an even more stupid ad about learning the ropes... WTF.... If I want that stuff I can look it up or go to my doctor... I have since let my subscription end thank you very much, not for that ad but the lack of information.

I have always been amazed at the lack of attention the industry gives to both the female and children aspect of the sport. With the need to grow the sport and build the industry it appears to me they lack the foresight to take the lead and drive the market in that direction. We know that men are going to buy the products so why not steer the marking into the market you want to capture? I don't understand the RODALE marketing machine or lack of....

BTW: Ladies from one guys point of view I am sure for the most part if you wanted to post pics of men the board wouldn't make you take it to a private showing. I know at this stage in my life I could really careless what is posted. I have thought about posting pics of me, but then I really don't want to be billed for the medical treatment you would all need after seeing my pics.... No, really! You might have to call the hazmat truck for an eye flushing......

-Dude


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## Hello Kitty (Sep 3, 2004)

Bikehigh said:


> You seriously think that the ads in cycling magazines keep women off the trails and out of the sport? Are yuou kidding me? It's amazing that you give women such little credit. Did these same ads keep you out of the sport? I thinbk you're letting your personal biases and hostility affect your judgement.
> 
> And FYI, I really don't care if there are more women on the trails. I'm not one of the gfuys who comes here wondering were all the hotties are on the trail. Women who like to ride, will ride. Just like you. If they're gonna let the fact that a few ads feature bikini clad models keep them from riding, then it's probably better that they're not out there skidding down the trails I like to ride.
> 
> Flame on





debaser said:


> Ok, there's what I really believe, it's a safety concern that keeps women away from starting cycling. You're more likely to get banged up or bloody from cycling than say hiking. Spending time in desolate areas might lead to some sort of attack, via animals, humans, whatever. You're afraid of jeopardizing your health that you need to take care of your family, etc. And for whatever reason, these are the reasons that when push comes to shove, some women decide to pick up some other, "safer" activity for fun.


Bikehigh, Debaser, between the two of you, you guys nailed it. In a nutshell, women are too coddled, and allowed to coddle themselves too much and too often. Add in the fact that they're habitually allowed to blame everybody else for their life decisions and you'll understand why it becomes a magazine ad's fault for why they choose to deny themselves nirvana on singletrack.

Just ride your bike, ladies. The girlfriends you have that embrace the sport with you are worth keeping. The other ones? Prolly not so much.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

verslowrdr said:


> I sometimes wonder if the perception of bicycling as "dangerous" is what holds it back from being embraced by more women.
> 
> Just look at these ads.... guys hucking, jumping, blood-spattered, etc. Not to say that none of us gals DON'T get a wild hair and get scabs (as the photos posted here will attest), but IN GENERAL most women I know avoid the prospect of pain or danger like the plague. So they go walking or do yoga or take the car to do some short errand instead of even considering the bike.
> 
> *As a whole* cycling as utility/fitness/entertainment is really really really safe, and I think we've done a remarkably poor job of promoting that aspect of the sport. In fact, the late great Ken Keifer had a lot of compelling stats on his website suggesting just how much safer riding a bike was than driving a car.


I do know what you're saying. I know a lot of women who don't like biking because they're afraid of getting hurt.

BUT - for me - the risk is what I love about it. I love DH because I can push myself to ride something that scared the hell out of me when I first looked at it (well, and sometimes every time I look at it), and then I make myself go and do it anyway. And I feel fantastic. Mind you, I wish I could do it better and get bigger air, go faster, etc. And after stitches and surgeries and all of that, I know I have limitations, but I still want to go for it and keep getting better.

Anyway, I know there aren't many of us, but there are girls who like the "blood-spattered" aspect of MTB. So personally, I'd like to see more girls in that type of advertising vs. the fitness oriented advertising. But I know it's a little niche so it's not going to happen much. I was psyched in the last MX mag I read that there was an ad with a girl jumping FMX (and then posed in a miniskirt off to the side) - but at least it was the same girl doing the stunt.

It's funny that someone said they have to explain "That's not what I do" Because I typically have to explain the opposite. My orthopedic surgeon said "You don't need to wear your knee braces for mountain biking, only for skiing or something where you're likely to crash". I pointed to the poster conveniently up on the wall behind me of someone riding off a rock drop and said - "That's what I mean when I say I'm riding a mountain bike". He said oh... wear the braces then. 

And I really don't think the MTB mags are any worse (and are better in a lot of instances) than a lot of other magazines - especially women's magazines. If sexual references in advertising kept you out of MTBing, it would keep you out of a LOT of things in life.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*What becomes clearer as this thread elaborates*

is that women mountain bikers are a very special breed of gal. And they are a very small demographic. 
As an aside, advertisers MUST use attractive people in their adds because they ATTRACT. What attracts in one demographic target is different in another. The Gods and Goddesses of Fitness mags would hardly be appealing in an Mtb mag and probaly less appealing in Cosmo. That advertising in a competitve marketplace is a tool for changing social consciousness is rediculous on the face of it. Advertsing is a tool for producing sales and it appeals to the status quo and it's hopes. If advertisng thought that there was a nascient mtb demographic lurking out there which would increase it's sales to women they would be all over it. Women who buy gear in our sport buy it because it works and suits their taste. Refer to my opening statement.
However, if we take a page from the Wine Industry in California there may be some lessons for us. They had to develop a market for their product, increase it's size, and move their market to more expensive products. They had to encourage new wine drinkers so they advertised it's lifestyle appeal. They knew that women didn't like red wine so they broadened their varieties of white wine, included "spritzers" and moved to "blushes", White "zinfandels" and such. Slowly, as women wine drinkers became more exposed to the qualities of wines they began to drink reds, first the lighter, then the more involved, and that is a whole new world. It has taken about 20 years. Now that there is a huge market advertisers are nudging for market share by arguing over screw caps versus corks.


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## Mary Ann (Jan 13, 2004)

Women don't like red wine? That's a new one for me!

Mary Ann (prefers a cabernet sauvingnon over anything red or white)


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## Mtnz2Sea (Dec 13, 2004)

*Any Suggestions*

Hi NJ Jess here. Magazines did not get me into the sport of mountain biking, nor will it deter me from continuing. What got me biking where my friends. What keeps me biking is making more friends. And achieving new heights with my racing.

New Jersey is the most populated state in the union. Why aren't there more female riders? All the men I ride with are great. They show me new tactics and techniques. I am becoming a much faster racer,.....but against who?

I race the NJ series and win,.....because their maybe 2 -3 other racers.

I talk to everyone. I'm always asking guys to bring out their girlfriends, wives, friends from work. Anyone can learn this sport with practice,....and a good attitude. So do they sport a favor, and say "hello" and ask women to ride. If time were to cost money, then it has to be "worth" it to a woman to ride. Smiles, Jess


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

I like riding bikes, always have.

I like hiking trails, always have.

Combine the two and it was instant love.

Ads do not effect me, good or bad. I am hungry for information. If the ad informs me I am happy, if not, the ad is just taking space(I really do not get the Specialized ads done in the dark. What are they trying to sell?).

Rita


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## r39205 (Aug 8, 2005)

*Very interesting*

I have a couple of thoughts about this. While I don't think the advertising in itself deters women from riding, I do think it is reflective of an overall culture which has a perception of what women are "supposed" to be. Tall and lean with unrealistically large boobs, no wrinkes or scars, or muscles. Even magazines such as Fitness that are theoretically geared to athletic or fitness-minded women have these incredibly thin young women in them lifting tiny weights. We are supposed to look like Barbie, despite the fact that a person actually built like Barbie would not be able to walk.

My reaction to this is first, to quote Eve Ensler, to refuse to be Barbie. I want to be Serena Williams or Mia Hamm or Shonny Vanlandingham or even Carly Fiorino, not Barbie.

Secondly, I actively patronize businesses that market to real women. I will buy anything from Title 9. They have good stuff, reviews from real people who actually tested the stuff, and photos of actual women using the stuff. Some of them (gasp!) over 40, not a cover model among them, just a bunch of strong beautiful women. It is a pity they don't have more bike stuff. I also once bought a pair of Brooks running shoes that I liked about as well as ones from another company that were less expensive, because the box read "You run like a Girl. Good for you!" Women DO have marketing power and they need to use it!

I think the biggest reason there are not more women in mountain biking or hockey or motocross or some of these other 'dangerous' sports is that women are never exposed to the thrills of these types of activities. Boys start out riding BMX and doing skateboard tricks and learning from day 1 that it can be fun to live on the edge of danger, and scrapes and even broken bones heal prety well. I never would have thought of myself growing up as someone cut out for mountain biking or hockey (another sport I love). I think we need to encourage girls to get into these types of activities, and get women to give them a try.

On the plus side, I picked up a copy of Adventure Sports magazine and was actually surprised to find so many women featured throughout the magazine, featured as equal teammates to the men, interviewed and written about quite a bit. I'm not into adventure racing (except the MTB part) but I did notice and appreciate this aspect of the magazine.


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