# i-link gear alligator housing



## saga (Feb 12, 2005)

is it 4mm??? I'm thinking of getting the new power cordz 1.2mm cables but don't want the fot to be loose.


----------



## saga (Feb 12, 2005)

does anyone know the liner size, Is it 4mm or 5mm?

I'm thinking of changing the end caps to jagwire carbons.


----------



## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

Both, the tapered end is 4mm and the flared end is 5mm. The inner plastic liner is 2mm. 

That is measured with a tape measure as my digi calipers are out on loan......Hope that helps.


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

civil said:


> Both, the tapered end is 4mm and the flared end is 5mm. The inner plastic liner is 2mm.
> 
> That is measured with a tape measure as my digi calipers are out on loan......Hope that helps.


Any "guesstimates" on what the iLink housing from lever to front disc brake (yes, a mechanical disc brake) would weigh? My current Jagwire "faux braided" housing and the cable to the front brake weighs 54-56 grams (depending on which bike). I wonder if the iLink would save much weight - if at all over that.

BB


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> Any "guesstimates" on what the iLink housing from lever to front disc brake (yes, a mechanical disc brake) would weigh? My current Jagwire "faux braided" housing and the cable to the front brake weighs 54-56 grams (depending on which bike). I wonder if the iLink would save much weight - if at all over that.
> 
> BB


100cm outer i-Link housing weighs ca. 25,5g
100cm i-Link liner weighs 1,5g

typical brake housing weighs about 58g/100cm


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

nino said:


> 100cm outer i-Link housing weighs ca. 25,5g
> 100cm i-Link liner weighs 1,5g
> 
> typical brake housing weighs about 58g/100cm


Thanks, Nino.

So, it looks like about 1/2 the weight. That's more weight savings than I thought it would be.

BB


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> Thanks, Nino.
> 
> So, it looks like about 1/2 the weight. That's more weight savings than I thought it would be.
> 
> BB


That's what i always say and that's why the i-links are a great choice when you need new cables. On top of their low weight they also offer superior slickness which results in less drag----->more power and better control(modulation) especially on V-Brakes.

But on shiftcables the savings are less. Some regular Shimano/Jagwire shift-housing weighs ca. 35g / 100cm


----------



## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

BruceBrown said:


> Thanks, Nino.
> 
> So, it looks like about 1/2 the weight. That's more weight savings than I thought it would be.
> 
> BB


Yeah, the weight is pretty good, quite happy with the look too.

Although I'm having to do a little guess work with the exterior housing lengths. The instructions say to use the same length (compressed of course) as the original cables, but I found that that led to some floppy cables. So I'm experimenting with some shorter lengths.

Does anyone have some good rules of thumb when doing this with the ilinks?


----------



## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

Bruce, I've been using the I-Links with Avid Ultimate levers and BB7 calipers and G2 rotors. They work sweet. I do have a set of the Alligator 93 gram rotors on order and some titanium rotor bolts to lighten it up a bit.


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Juanmoretime said:


> Bruce, I've been using the I-Links with Avid Ultimate levers and BB7 calipers and G2 rotors. They work sweet. I do have a set of the Alligator 93 gram rotors on order and some titanium rotor bolts to lighten it up a bit.


I'd love to see pictures of your setup if you have them available.

That sounds like what I am trying to do. Tune the Avid mechanical disc brake set up to a competitive weight with a hydro disc brake system. Ti bolts. Light rotors. Light levers. Light housing. Not cheap, but I'm one of the odd ducks that is quite happy with the performance of my mechanical brakes and see how it can be done. They haven't failed me since 2002, so I figure dressing them up a bit may be worth the hassle. I have 2 sets of the type N caliper which weighs 138g compared to the BB7 later version which weighs 155g.

Looking at real weights for a front brake [weight includes lever, lever bolts, hose, fluid, caliper, pads but no adapter, no caliper bolts, no rotor, no rotor bolts]:

Avid Juicy 7: 266g
Avid Elixir R: 246g
Avid Elixir CR: 250g
Avid Juicy Ultimate: 219g (with trimmed housing length)
Avid BB7 (type N)/Avid Ultimate levers/PowerCordz cable/iLink housing/liner: 267g
Avid BB7 (type N)/Paul Love levers/PowerCordz cable/iLink housing/liner: 251g
Avid BB7 (type N)/Extralite Ultra levers/PowerCordz cable/iLink housing/liner: 225g
Avid BB7 (type N)/KCNC levers/PowerCordz cable/iLink housing/liner: 214g

Those four versions of the BB7 are all "in the ballpark" weight wise. Rotors, adapters and bolts, caliper bolts, rotor bolts will be about the same running IS mounts no matter what the brake and my given choice of rotors currently are the Alligator Windcutters with sintered pads. I had a great season on them in 2008, so I see no reason to alter that for 2009 outside of trying a different rotor size on the rear.

Back to the tuning of housing/cables....

If I was going to run full length iLink housing to the rear Avid BB7 caliper - is there enough of the housing and liner in an iLink kit to do this - or would I need to buy a 2nd kit (or extension kit) to do it? On my XL frame, it looks like that is about a 170mm or so length.

I've got a pair of the Avid Ultimate levers which I plan on using for the build with my Avid mechanical disc brakes. I was just looking at the PowerCordz for cables. Holy expensive cable!!! $36.95 for a pair of derailleur cables and $46.95 for the brake cables.

Hmmmm.....not sure about that. The claim is running the PowerCordz for brakes and shifting will cut 45-60g from your machine versus steel cables. Surely, there must be some solutions that are between plain Jane steel cables and the PowerCordz cables in price and weight. XTR? Jagwire Teflon? etc...?

Add that to the cost of iLink housing and this "upgrade" is one upgrade that is going to painful expense wise. Above, I have figured out the potential weight savings for the front brake to make it competitive with the hydraulics.

Back to the iLinks nuts and bolts. What do you do with an iLinks setup between cable stops for derailleur runs? Do you run some sort of a housing liner (Jagwire or other)? Or do you just run bare cable with donuts?

There was a pretty cool article and instructions in this month's MBA on how to set up your derailleur for full length housing and housing liner to improve your shifting. The guy used electricians shrink wrap between the section joints to seal it all in and make a fail proof system. Of course, I'll be running full length housing to the Avid BB7 disc brakes like I always have, but I have never thought of doing it with my derailleurs to keep all the gunk and grime out to improve shifting. Again, I would assume that the iLink and some housing liner could be used together to accomplish this.

BB


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

nino said:


> Hi,
> it seems you completely missed my i-link posts over the last 1-2 years or so, right?.


I guess I missed it. I need to do a search and start reading up on the iLinks.



 nino said:


> I-Links come with a full lenght inner liner. Thus the wires are protected and the whole system is sealed. that's why the i-links keep their slick action..


Perfect.



nino said:


> DON'T believe people that tell you 50g savings can be achieved using Powercordz! And another problem is that the Powercordz for brakes DON'T FIT into the i-Link liner because they are thicker. They simply don't fit. The Powercordz do only fit on the shiftcables. So forget it on the brakes! I also found Powercordz do have more drag than regular steel wires so i never use them just because of this. Cabes do have to be as slick as possible especially on the brakes to make for best modulation and more brakepower.


That solves that if I go with the iLinks. I've used the Jagwire Teflon coated cables as well as just plain old steel cables with my Avid mechanical brakes.



nino said:


> If the i-links fit your bike depends on the lenght you need. You will have to actually measure the needed lenghts. Usually they come with just 150-180cm lenght housings per set. Usually with full lenght housing you need more that just 1 set.


That's what I need to know. It looks like one brake kit would be needed just for the full length run to the rear brake.



nino said:


> So you don't have to buy full sets if a set is not enough. You can get elongation kits of the outer aluminium housings as well as seperate inner liners in either transparent or black colour.


Thanks. I appreciate the help getting me up to speed. I like the black liner option since I'm building up a stealth black bike.:thumbsup:

I'll do a little searching to see what you've posted about the iLinks over the past 2 years. It's kind of the last item I am down to selecting for my new bike, so all my searching and reading have had to do with other components thus far.

BB


----------



## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> I'd love to see pictures of your setup if you have them available.
> 
> That sounds like what I am trying to do. Tune the Avid mechanical disc brake set up to a competitive weight with a hydro disc brake system. Ti bolts. Light rotors. Light levers. Light housing. Not cheap, but I'm one of the odd ducks that is quite happy with the performance of my mechanical brakes and see how it can be done. They haven't failed me since 2002, so I figure dressing them up a bit may be worth the hassle. I have 2 sets of the type N caliper which weighs 138g compared to the BB7 later version which weighs 155g.
> 
> ...


Bruce, I've used the I-Links on all my bikes including my TT bike. The I-Links had enough in the kits for brake and shift t run just about any configuration. On my geared MTB and my single speed 29er I ran full length brake cables. On the geared MTB I ran the housing for the gears only to the cable stops but ran full length liner to keep the gunk out. You can use Power Cordz on both the shift and brake but have to use the Power Cordz liner and it is a very snug fit. The think about Power Cordz is have to measure twice and be right because they are not forgiving of mistakes. When you bugger one up you usually have to replace it. The teflon coated cables that come with the I-Link kets work very well and I find them great to use. I think I would rather have the slight weight penalty and have great working cables.

I can post some pictures of my set up later over the weekend.

Here is some color spacer porn for now. It was a Christmas present to my 29er to help accent my Boone cog and my Hope Pro II rear hub.


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Liners....*



Juanmoretime said:


> ....You can use Power Cordz on both the shift and brake but have to use the Power Cordz liner and it is a very snug fit.


DON'T use other liners!
As shown above i-Link liner weighs next to nothing. Other liners weigh MUCH more and will be heavier in the end! Nokon Liner for example weighs 8,5g/100cm....You install lighter Powercordz wires but heavy liner...no good.

As others stated as well the regular slick-wires that come with the i-Links make for long lasting and superslick action.


----------



## jmartpr (Jun 16, 2008)

nino said:


> Hi,
> 
> DON'T believe people that tell you 50g savings can be achieved using Powercordz! And another problem is that the Powercordz for brakes DON'T FIT into the i-Link liner because they are thicker. They simply don't fit. The Powercordz do only fit on the shiftcables. So forget it on the brakes! I also found Powercordz do have more drag than regular steel wires so i never use them just because of this. Cabes do have to be as slick as possible especially on the brakes to make for best modulation and more brakepower.


Nino...be careful with those statements. First, the thing with PowerCordz is that their shift housing is not that light. But the Cable does have some merits. They are the lightest cable...Period!!! They never rust, they never stretch and they don't need constant maintenance. On the Brake housing it's lighter than other plus you get the benefits of the cables.

Now...using PowerCordz with i-links....Some people want to run them without purchasing the Nokon (that also works with I-Links) liner sold by PowerCordz. This liner is designed for the larger diameter cable. The included liner with the i-Links may allow you to install the PC but you will have friction, specially on longer cable runs like Scott bikes. I have i-Links + PowerCordz on my road and MTB and so far the shift and brake performance is excellent with zero friction.

And as a last point.. by the end of January the PowerCordz 1.2 mm cable should be available and any issues with using a larger diameter cable should be put to rest.


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

jmartpr said:


> Nino...be careful with those statements. First, the thing with PowerCordz is that their shift housing is not that light. But the Cable does have some merits. They are the lightest cable...Period!!! They never rust, they never stretch and they don't need constant maintenance. On the Brake housing it's lighter than other plus you get the benefits of the cables.
> 
> Now...using PowerCordz with i-links....Some people want to run them without purchasing the Nokon (that also works with I-Links) liner sold by PowerCordz. This liner is designed for the larger diameter cable. The included liner with the i-Links may allow you to install the PC but you will have friction, specially on longer cable runs like Scott bikes. I have i-Links + PowerCordz on my road and MTB and so far the shift and brake performance is excellent with zero friction.
> 
> And as a last point.. by the end of January the PowerCordz 1.2 mm cable should be available and any issues with using a larger diameter cable should be put to rest.


Powercordz ARE indeed light, but they don't save 50g. That's all i said above.

Installing Powercordz with other liners is ridiculous as other liners are much heavier. Just as i wrote above you might end up heavier than using the standard i-Link parts.


----------



## jmartpr (Jun 16, 2008)

nino said:


> Powercordz ARE indeed light, but they don't save 50g. That's all i said above.
> 
> Installing Powercordz with other liners is ridiculous as other liners are much heavier. Just as i wrote above you might end up heavier than using the standard i-Link parts.


Agreed, maybe on a road bike with PC on brakes and shift you could save that. Of course it also depends from what you are upgrading from....but the PowerCordz Liner (light blue 2008)...not other liner...weights basically the same as the liner supplied by Alligator with the i-links. anyway, once the 1.2mm are available you will be able to use any liner or housing with the cable, which will be the lightest you can get.


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

jmartpr said:


> Agreed, maybe on a road bike with PC on brakes and shift you could save that. Of course it also depends from what you are upgrading from....but the PowerCordz Liner (light blue 2008)...not other liner...weights basically the same as the liner supplied by Alligator with the i-links. anyway, once the 1.2mm are available you will be able to use any liner or housing with the cable, which will be the lightest you can get.


That new 1.2mm PowerCordz cable is derailleur specific, right? So one is still stuck with the issue of PowerCordz brake cables and iLink housing without some modifications if I am following along correctly.

BB


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Juanmoretime said:


> Bruce, I've used the I-Links on all my bikes including my TT bike. The I-Links had enough in the kits for brake and shift t run just about any configuration. On my geared MTB and my single speed 29er I ran full length brake cables. On the geared MTB I ran the housing for the gears only to the cable stops but ran full length liner to keep the gunk out. You can use Power Cordz on both the shift and brake but have to use the Power Cordz liner and it is a very snug fit. The think about Power Cordz is have to measure twice and be right because they are not forgiving of mistakes. When you bugger one up you usually have to replace it. The teflon coated cables that come with the I-Link kets work very well and I find them great to use. I think I would rather have the slight weight penalty and have great working cables.
> 
> I can post some pictures of my set up later over the weekend.


I would greatly appreciate the pictures - thanks.:thumbsup:

I was just reading the installation of the PowerCordz directions involving having to tie a knot and using the little Windsor brake clasp. I can hardly tie my shoe.:madman:

Your statement about the provided cables with the iLink kit working well and not that much of a weight penalty (not to mention cost or the risk of damaging the thing due to a mistake) makes sense to me.

I need to go out in the garage and weigh my entire housing and cable run (Jagwire) which I am looking to replace to see if it is all worth it weight wise and money wise.

Okay, I just did that.

Front housing is 75cm in length
Front housing with one frame protector is 36g
Front cable weight is 12g
2 Jagwire POPs is 4g
Total housing weight, including steel cable and all ferrules, frame protectors and doo-dads is 52g

Rear housing is 137cm
Rear housing with 2 frame protectors is 70g
Rear cable weight is 18g
1 Jagwire POP and 1 Avid rubber doodad is 4g
Total housing weight, including steel cable and all ferrules, frame protectors and doo-dads is 92g

212cm of universal 5mm brake housing with cable/ferrules/frame protectors = 144g

So it looks like lighter cables could be had compared to my standard QBP steel brake cables which total 30g.

106g for front and rear 5mm Jagwire housing could be shaved down using the iLink housing and liner. What's that work out to for my current Jagwire housing? 50g per meter?

But how much weight savings are we talking here for the final product? It looks like using full run iLink housing and liner at 27g per meter would make my required length of 212cm total 57.24g which = a savings of 48.76g for the brake housing. I would have to assume the same ratio of weight savings for the derailleur housing I have been using (it's the same Jagwire universal brake/derailleur 5mm housing). Looks like housing alone could by going from what I have been using to the iLink may save me 75 - 100g depending on full length/cable stops/housing liner options and choices. Cables probably aren't worth messing with since the entire 4 cables - at least in terms of PowerCordz - are so expensive and the weight savings may only be in the 20 - 40g range by going to PowerCordz (not to mention the problem with the liner size and by doing the swap most of that gain would be lost).

My new JET 9 frame has what I would call some "interesting and challenging" cable stops/routing compared to what my Sugar 293 has. Everything is on the downtube instead of the top tube and there are some really tight bends. Even more challenging is that I prefer to use the right lever for the front brake and the left lever for the rear brake which puts an extra sharp bend on the rear brake housing/cable.

Regardless, the iLink kits are marked down 44% at the moment which has me perked up and trying to learn as much as possible while the sale lasts. I guess using the full length housing liner gives one the same smooth braking like the full standard housing I have been using. The iLink brake kit says it comes with:

Liner: 100cm x 1 pc, 180cm x 1 pc
Housing: 150cm

If I wanted to run full housing, I would need to get some sort of an extension kit in the length range of 62cm. It looks there is plenty of liner, so running the cable stops and using a the full run of liner would work (and be lighter, right?).

BB


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

nino said:


> DON'T use other liners!
> As shown above i-Link liner weighs next to nothing. Other liners weigh MUCH more and will be heavier in the end! Nokon Liner for example weighs 8,5g/100cm....You install lighter Powercordz wires but heavy liner...no good.
> 
> As others stated as well the regular slick-wires that come with the i-Links make for long lasting and superslick action.


Do all iLink "kits" come with the transparent housing liner? I'm interested in the black housing liner only.

BB


----------



## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> Do all iLink "kits" come with the transparent housing liner? I'm interested in the black housing liner only.
> 
> BB


Yes white translucent only.


----------



## saga (Feb 12, 2005)

I'm going to try the new 1.2mm power cordz with my i-link gears and I'll report how I get on. Because of their size there shouldn't be as much drag. They only come in white though.


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Juanmoretime said:


> Yes white translucent only.


Everyone has been more than patient with all my questions and I appreciate it. I have actually spent some time searching threads the past 24 hours and reading up on Nokon, iLinks, Gore, Aztec, PowerCordz, XTR, Jagwire, Avid, etc... .

Running an Avid mechanical disc brake can be done with a full run of housing (just about any cheap housing) to the rear brake and performance will be grand. And it can also be done using the cable stops on the frame with open sections of brake cable exposed and still have pretty darn good performance. I've tried it both ways and much prefer the full housing. Setting the spring rate on the Avid caliper makes the caliper's spring strong enough to return the cable to any lever. And having the spring rate on the Avid levers (I have the Ti and the Ultimate) makes for excellent cable action whether or not the cable is fully housed or exposed between cable stops.

Here's the question since I haven't been able to locate photos of bikes using the iLink and mechanical brakes in my search. If the iLink is a full run of the liner from lever to caliper, does one really need the outer colored links over the liner for the full run to get the same compressionless braking? Or does performance improve if the links are run the entire length, rather than just to the cable stops with the top tube being liner only and the links picking up at the rear of the top tube down to the caliper?

Running full housing on my 2 frames (Dos Niner and JET 9) is not a problem as the cable stops are not the older, smaller in diameter stops. They are the larger size for hydraulic brake hose so the entire 5mm brake cable housing feeds right through it. I've got the rubber and plastic pieces to "convert" the cable stops back to old school if I was going to run a traditional stop with 5mm brake housing.

I see a post where to locate the black liner and extra links if need be.

Again - thanks to all who have been very patient with me and my questions.

BB


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*keep it short !*



BruceBrown said:


> ... does one really need the outer colored links over the liner for the full run to get the same compressionless braking? Or does performance improve if the links are run the entire length, rather than just to the cable stops with the top tube being liner only and the links picking up at the rear of the top tube down to the caliper?
> 
> I see a post where to locate the black liner and extra links if need be.


keep the housings as short as possible. it saves weight.

there is no need for full lenght housing if you have cablestops on your frame. a slick cable will allow you to set the return spring at the lowest setting...thus you need less handforce to squeeze the lever...thus you have more force at the brakes...more actual brakepower.....better modulation.

yes - certain sellers do offer you the choice


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

nino said:


> keep the housings as short as possible. it saves weight.
> 
> there is no need for full lenght housing if you have cablestops on your frame. a slick cable will allow you to set the return spring at the lowest setting...thus you need less handforce to squeeze the lever...thus you have more force at the brakes...more actual brakepower.....better modulation.
> 
> yes - certain sellers do offer you the choice


Well, as luck would have it, my JET 9 frame does not have cablestops for the rear brake run. It's just the hydro hose frame stops where you zip tie or clip on the hose for the full run. So I guess that shoots my rear brake lighter weight run. That's going to be a heck of a lot of iLinks to make the whatever it is 140 - 149cm run if I go with the iLinks.

BB


----------



## scooter916 (Jan 2, 2006)

once I get my brakes dialed I will post weights and pics, having a custom bike being built so not sure how much housing I will need but current set up will be
KCNC levers
Nokon full length housing ft and rr
standard SS cables
Aligator 160mm TiNi coated rotors
Ti rotor bolts
BB7 with all steel bolts replaced with Ti including the cable anchor bolt, leaving the anchor washer steel (except the spring tension adjuster which is hard to find in Ti)


----------



## scooter916 (Jan 2, 2006)

How much lighter is Ilinks vs Nokon?


----------



## jmartpr (Jun 16, 2008)

BruceBrown said:


> That new 1.2mm PowerCordz cable is derailleur specific, right? So one is still stuck with the issue of PowerCordz brake cables and iLink housing without some modifications if I am following along correctly.
> 
> BB


yes...just like regular steel cables. The only mod you need is the PowerCordz liner (blue) designed for Nokon/I-Links instead of the regular liner included with the i-Links.


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

A tip for setting up the powercordz. Set up your drivetrain and brakes with regular steel cables. Ride your bike around for a bit and make sure everything is adjusted perfectly. The last thing you want to do is fiddle around with the powercordz. The powercordz should be install and don't touch. If you start undoing the pinch bolts on the derailleurs or brakes and redoing them to pinch the powercordz you will notice that the plastic sheath that protects the "fine" fibers underneth starts to get damaged and the fine fibers get exposed. When that happens you start crimping onto the fine fibers itself and you can toss the powercordz line into the garbage as it won't take long to fail once that happens. 

So ride you drivetrain and brakes a while before upgrading to powercordz.


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

jmartpr said:


> yes...just like regular steel cables. The only mod you need is the PowerCordz liner (blue) designed for Nokon/I-Links instead of the regular liner included with the i-Links.


Do you know the actual diameter of the Nokon liner designed for iLinks? I can't find that information on the internet (at least with the way I am searching).

BB


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*sorry...*



BruceBrown said:


> Do you know the actual diameter of the Nokon liner designed for iLinks? I can't find that information on the internet (at least with the way I am searching).
> 
> BB


there can't be no "Nokon" liner made for i-links:nono:

Nokon is trying whatever they can to get rid of Alligator. They even had Scott remove the i-links off of Nino Schurters Olympic Bike which was on display at Eurobike. They had a lawyer on board that forced the Scott-guys to immediately remove the i-links right away.

I don't believe a word that Nokon is offering i-link specific liner!! what should it be good for anyway? their liner weighs over 8g...the i-link liner just over 1g.


----------



## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Good advice from Cheers. I did that too - tweaked the gears etc with steel cables then once everything was gone swapped the cordz in.

You can re-clamp them a couple of times but you need to be carefull about it.


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

nino said:


> there can't be no "Nokon" liner made for i-links:nono:
> 
> Nokon is trying whatever they can to get rid of Alligator. They even had Scott remove the i-links off of Nino Schurters Olympic Bike which was on display at Eurobike. They had a lawyer on board that forced the Scott-guys to immediately remove the i-links right away.
> 
> I don't believe a word that Nokon is offering i-link specific liner!! what should it be good for anyway? their liner weighs over 8g...the i-link liner just over 1g.


My question about the Nokon wasn't really the best as it didn't include the thought process behind it.

I spotted some black Jagwire housing liner for $7.50 per roll and wondered if the dimensions were the same as some other liners such as the Nokon. My guess is no - as the Jagwire black liner is listed as fitting up to 1.8mm cables.

I am literally "weighing" my options since I will need to run a full length housing to the rear brake on my JET 9 since the frame has no traditional cable stops (modern era of hydro brakes only!!!!:madman.

I've weighed all of the housing lengths that came off of my Sugar and I have weighed the housing I do have on hand in my parts bin. I've got 360cm of Jagwire Reinforced with Kevlar braided housing which has been sitting in my parts bin since 2003. It weighs about 38g per meter. And I've got a 50m spool of Specialized braided silver universal housing that weighs around 50g per meter.

For both the front and rear brake full housing runs, using what I have on hand would be either:

A - 80g using the Jagwire Kevlar vs. 57 for iLinks (iLinks saves 23g)
B - 106g using the Specialized vs. 57 for iLinks (iLinks saves 49g)

Obviously, choice A - since I have it on hand - makes sense.

I am kind of stuck between situations where it is possible that one of my eventual goals may be to run the new Formula R1 brakes (or another XC set such as Hopo Mini Pro X2 or Ultimates) if and when the R1's come out and I have the coin to spend on them (following good reviews of the system and what not). I've been so happy with my Avid mechanical brakes since 2002, that I like the idea of sticking with them because they are so easy for me to maintain and not worry about when hauling bikes and working on them - as well as swapping wheels frequently between bikes. They just seem like the right tool for me.

If I invest in the iLinks - I want to keep that investment and use it with my mechanical brakes. So the expense starts to add up for the investment and I am wondering if saving 23g on my brake housing runs is really worth the cost. The iLinks brake kit comes with enough links for 150cm, but I need at least a total of 212cm (maybe more once I get my bike to the point of mounting everything up - I just don't know the actual total cm # as of yet). So whether I buy 2 iLinks brake kits currently on sale for $44.98 each at Price Point or I buy one kit from you plus the extra links needed for my housing run - it's a lot of coin to save 23g over what I already have in stock for the brakes.

As you mentioned, the weight savings on the derailleur side would be even less if I run derailleur housing at whatever it is - 35g per meter or so. I was thinking of using the black Jagwire housing liner (which is only $7.50 per roll) between cable stops on the derailleur runs if I don't go the iLinks route.

Anyway, that's where I am at right now. Overthinking and "weighing" all of my options and costs.

BB


----------



## saga (Feb 12, 2005)

Has anyone got the 1.2mm cables, I'm trying to set them up but having trouble for some reason. Do you use a cable crimp at the ends where the fibers stick out??


----------



## jmartpr (Jun 16, 2008)

No....what kind of problems are you having with the 1.2 mm? I asume the PC 1.2 mm..right?


----------



## wrxsti08 (May 29, 2008)

saga said:


> Has anyone got the 1.2mm cables, I'm trying to set them up but having trouble for some reason. Do you use a cable crimp at the ends where the fibers stick out??


I've ordered a set of PC 1.2mm last week and I should get it on thursday or Friday. Can't wait to test it with my i-links.

What kind of problem are you having? There's no need to use a cable tip....


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

I wish Tune will bring back it's plastic housings. Why did Tune stop offering them?


----------



## saga (Feb 12, 2005)

I tightened the clamping bolts and ruined both cables, might be able to re-use - pain in the arse this is. 

Regarding the cable ends I would want to cover the ends due to dirt and grit getting into the fibers which stick out on mine even before I cut them, is that normal? I might put some tape over the ends as I'm in the UK.


----------



## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

You must have tightened too much. Ive clamped mine down about 10 times now and there still good.... 

No need for end caps - ive not got any on mine in the last year and a half im in the UK.


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

The hardest to install is the brake cable where they use that stupid clasp where you have to tie a knot and then secure it with a set screw...

Looks like they have developed a new method of fixing these cables (at least for brakes)










Personally I don't use powercordz anymore. PITA. I wonder if I can use high strength fishing line for shifter cable...


----------



## saga (Feb 12, 2005)

Well I have to agree with Cheers as I've just spent the last 2 hours trying to get a good shift and the cables look all beat up and don't work now. Taken them off and going to refit my SS cables. I've contacted power cordz to see what they have to say as I had higher expectations.


----------



## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

LMAO


----------



## saga (Feb 12, 2005)

Tiffster I gather you havn't tried the power cordz 1.2mm cables. Anyway just got a really helpful email back from Power cordz who are helping me get the cables set up again so I can't fault them on that. I'll let you guys know how I get on and will be taking them to a pro mechanic to set up and then hopefully I'll be good to go.


----------



## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

I've got the "normal" ones 1.5mm i think ? 

But im just astonished - how did you mess up installing a set of gear cables? I mean really to have damaged them you must surely have clamped down on them far too hard? 

Did you follow the advice of setting up your gears with Steel cables then once everything is good just swap them out for the cordz ?


----------



## elphilmino (Nov 8, 2007)

Hello, my name is Phil Vega, I'm the Brand Manager at Power Cordz. This post was brought to my attention by a frustrated Power Cordz user so I wanted to take a moment and clear the water to be sure everyone knows the proper way to install and set up Power Cordz.

Please keep in mind - Power Cordz are high-tech components made of advanced materials and require proper care and maintenance. Like many high-tech components, if improperly treated, it will fail pre-maturely. In a similar sense, a heavier steel bicycle frame will take much more misuse and abuse than a lightweight carbon race frame.

But, you didn't buy Power Cordz to install on your cheap bicycle, so you are already familiar with needs and maintenance requirements of a high-end bike.

Our first suggestion - if you're not familiar with installing cables and housing, take your bike to a professional mechanic who is up to the task. It's worth every penny and headache!

Next- if you are familiar, then take your time, follow the suggestions below and please contact us if you have questions or comments. We are here to help.

1. Watch our install video: http://www.powercordz.com/Support/ 
all the tips and tricks are listed here.

2. Start at the back of the bike. If the Cord is damaged in the process it can be cut and used on the front. You will then likely have called us or figured out what went wrong, so the next install will go smooth!

3. Always use plenty of lube and cut the Cordz with an X-Acto knife for a precise cut.

The steel cable set-up trick will work and is a great idea, but it's not necessary. Go ahead and set up your new housings then install the Cordz. For shifting, fasten the Cord to the clasp with a 180 degree wrap. Pedal and shift through the gears seating the ferrules and housing just like you would a standard cable. Then, unfasten the cord, pull tight, wrap 180, re-fasten. The cord casing will be smashed but it's generally good for a few re-adjustments before the fibers will be exposed. Once the cord is again fastened, use the barrel adjuster to properly tension. That's it. If you feel the steel cable trick is better, use it, as it's a great idea.

Brakes are a little different and require an extra step from steel cables. Tying the knot. Our video is a great help in this department. Why is this required? You must think of the Cordz like a rope instead of a cable. The knot allows the cord to effectively pull on itself adding added strength to the system. The Windsor Clasp is designed to hold the cord without adding stress points. The first attempt at getting the proper level feel is tough, but after a couple installs (just like when you fastened your first steel cable) you get the feel of where to set the cord and achieving the proper feel is much more predictable. Like Derailleur Cordz, if you don't get the feel the first time, go ahead, loosen the bolt and re-adjust. The Cord is good for a couple of adjustments.

I hope this helps clear things up. Feel free to send me your questions or comments, my email address is below.

Thanks,
Phil

www.powercordz.com  
[email protected]


----------



## wrxsti08 (May 29, 2008)

Finally got my PC 1.2 today. It's time to test it out with my i-links.


----------



## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

wowwwwwwwwwww


----------



## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Do they come with special bolts...? Although I think they are only needed for v-brakes..


----------



## wrxsti08 (May 29, 2008)

eliflap said:


> wowwwwwwwwwww


Eli, you should switch for 1.2mm


----------



## wrxsti08 (May 29, 2008)

Batas said:


> Do they come with special bolts...? Although I think they are only needed for v-brakes..


Nope just the cables....


----------



## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

1,2 mm are for derailleurs not for brakes


----------



## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

wrxsti08 said:


> Eli, you should switch for 1.2mm


mmmmmmmm white color not match my frame colors

i stay with my 1,5mm 2008 version all black


----------



## wrxsti08 (May 29, 2008)

eliflap said:


> mmmmmmmm white color not match my frame colors
> 
> i stay with my 1,5mm 2008 version all black


That's true! 
The white color is perfect on my Rize with the transparent i-link liner. :thumbsup:


----------



## saga (Feb 12, 2005)

Hi, I'm still trying to understand where I sent wrong with the power cordz. I'm mounting them to xtr rear and front mechs. I just mounted them like the normal stainless steel cables as that's what the instructions said. When tightening the clamp bolt on the cable I just did the same as the steel cable but after looking at the video(1.5mm version) online a 180 degree bend is used so the bolt clamps the cable with a bend in it.

Well I just clamped it without the bend, pretty much dead straight. How important is the bend and why not just do it like the steel cables. Here's a pic of the bend on someones bike http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/download.php?id=25233 Mine is the same but the cable continues as I did't bend it.

Also the xtr mechs come with little guides in the clasps next to the bolt and when I put the 1.2mm cable in these like you do with steel cables the 1.2mm power cordz would hold for a few shifts but then would slip stripping a couple of inches worth of the white liner away. Is the idea not to use the slots in the xtr clasps? Again I didn't bend the power cords on the front mech just kept it straight as with steel cables.

Hope that's clear. I'm asking because my local bike mechanic couldn't help me and also ruined another cable today so I'm not too pleased and hopefully a power cordz expert will be able to shed some light on my troubles.


----------



## wrxsti08 (May 29, 2008)

saga said:


> Hi, I'm still trying to understand where I sent wrong with the power cordz. I'm mounting them to xtr rear and front mechs. I just mounted them like the normal stainless steel cables as that's what the instructions said. When tightening the clamp bolt on the cable I just did the same as the steel cable but after looking at the video(1.5mm version) online a 180 degree bend is used so the bolt clamps the cable with a bend in it.
> 
> Well I just clamped it without the bend, pretty much dead straight. How important is the bend and why not just do it like the steel cables. Here's a pic of the bend on someones bike http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/download.php?id=25233 Mine is the same but the cable continues as I did't bend it.
> 
> ...


I would like know this as well before i install mine. I was also about to use the slot in the clasp just like the steel cable.


----------



## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

I can't speak for inferiour XTR parts  but here's my findings:

When i mounted my powercordz on my Xo rear derr - i placed the cordz into the slot on the mech behind where the bolt comes in. I did not wrap it 180 degree around the bolt as this is hard to do on Sram XO mechs. After speaking with Powercordz Richard i was told as long as the bolt is tight it'll be fine. So i did - pulled the cordz tight and clamped the bolt down hard enough to stop slippage, but not so hard to destroy the cordz.

For my Sram Red front mech - i did wrap more of the cordz around the bolt - but not much, it's to do with the pull on the mech that it needs to be more secure, but still i haven't had any issue's here. 


What diameter is a normal steel cable ? If your bolts are tight but the cordz are still slipping then they could be undersize. 

In my opinion btw - with high end components like these i find 99% of lbs mechanics useless, there used to mass market bikes and aren't aware of needing to be delicate as doing so takes time, which is money and they want money as quickly as possible...


----------



## saga (Feb 12, 2005)

Thanks Tiffster, a normal steel cable is 1.2mm and the new power cordz are also 1.2mm. You're right it's the front mech that pulls with more force and at an angle so getting it right on the front mech is more important.

I still don't understand how you can wrap the power cordz around the bolt or even the clasp, when I watch the video install you'll see them do it but there's nothing for the power cordz to hold on to when you wrap or bend it backwards.


----------



## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Just put it on - put as much into the groove in the mech then wrap the rest of it around the bolt in a clockwise direction. The bolt will then be bolting down on more surface area of the cordz which should give a more secure fit.


----------



## mezzanine (Sep 6, 2004)

Does anyone know if the power cordz can be used in other applications such as fork lock-out cables and even speedball or gravity seatposts? I know these items add extra weight but if the cables now come in 1.2mm I suppose there are weight savings to be made.


----------



## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Yes they can be, i have used them in a rockshox Pushloc/poplock without problems.


----------



## mezzanine (Sep 6, 2004)

Thanks, I'm going to upgrade them then. I plan to use power cordz 1.2mm cables with the i-link liner but for the speedball seatpost and fork remotes I don't want to use the i-link outer housing as it would slap about too much.

Does anyone know what the lightest normal style housing I could use?


----------



## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

I link housing doesnt slap around. If anything its stiffer than normal cables.


----------



## mezzanine (Sep 6, 2004)

It's for my 2003 Tracer which doesn't have good cable guides so the i-links wouldn't be able to clip into my stick-on guides. But if nothing else is as light then maybe I could try the i-link housing for the seatpost, it would be full length.


----------



## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

You could use Tune Plastik stuff - if you can find any that is.

The new Shimano Yumeya white stuff is meant to be light - but im not sure if its available yet.


----------



## mezzanine (Sep 6, 2004)

Which i-link set do I need for the seatpost remote and fork remote - is it the brakes or the gear?


----------



## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Gear.


----------



## vladxc (Jan 22, 2009)

Where can I find a shop that has I Link and sends it in Romania?  (not to expensive)


----------



## wrxsti08 (May 29, 2008)

vladxc said:


> Where can I find a shop that has I Link and sends it in Romania?  (not to expensive)


I don't know any shops but you can try eBay or just ask Nino.


----------



## vladxc (Jan 22, 2009)

Thank you, I will


----------



## saga (Feb 12, 2005)

On the i-link liner one end is different where it lips over and the the other end is cut just like any other cable/liner. Why is there a difference and what's the reason? Thank you.


----------



## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

saga said:


> On the i-link liner one end is different where it lips over and the the other end is cut just like any other cable/liner. Why is there a difference and what's the reason? Thank you.


The lip goes on the brake lever - shifter side. It helps to keep the liner from creeping inside the housing. My Nokon's used to creep and I would every so often have to lossen my cables and push the liner back in. Not so with I-Links.


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*please....*



Juanmoretime said:


> The lip goes on the brake lever - shifter side. It helps to keep the liner from creeping inside the housing. My Nokon's used to creep and I would every so often have to lossen my cables and push the liner back in. Not so with I-Links.


is this a serious question??

If you want you can make every cut piece of liner look this way by using a screwdriver like shown below. It just helps the liner stay in place.


----------



## A-Hol (Dec 31, 2005)

Do you need cable stops for I-Links to work?...having a hard time on Epic that runs full length housing to the RD (5 zip tie spots). Maybe I don't have enough links. FD set-up (has cable stop) seems fine.


----------



## jmartpr (Jun 16, 2008)

You should be Ok on the Epic....the Scott Spark is the same and I have a couple of customers with Epics runing I-Links. Make sure you have just the right lenght of housing and there are no sharp kinks on the I-links.


----------



## A-Hol (Dec 31, 2005)

Guess I need more links than the set-up comes with.


----------



## jmartpr (Jun 16, 2008)

For the new Epics you need to sets....


----------



## A-Hol (Dec 31, 2005)

jmartpr said:


> For the new Epics you need to sets....


That sucks...I have seen no sign of an I-Link extension kit.


----------



## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

A-Hol said:


> That sucks...I have seen no sign of an I-Link extension kit.


I've got three sets of I-Links in my toy box..
If you need gold, red or silver I can send you the lengths your short..

No charge








~Jake







PS. Just PM me your shipping information..(USA shipping only)


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*elongations...*



A-Hol said:


> That sucks...I have seen no sign of an I-Link extension kit.


you can't get any elongations from shops.
There's people that have elongation kits available as well as separate inner liners (transparent or black) and other spares for i-links...

maybe someone else can point you there as i am not allowed to do so


----------



## A-Hol (Dec 31, 2005)

Jake, Thanks for the generous offer...of course I need black. I got word that Nino may sell extra links.


----------



## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

By the way, when you buy a set of Alligators do they fit for both shifting and braking or is there an specific set for braking and an specific one for shifting?


----------



## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

indian fire trail said:


> By the way, when you buy a set of Alligators do they fit for both shifting and braking or is there an specific set for braking and an specific one for shifting?


Same housing and liner, different cables.


----------



## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

Juanmoretime said:


> Same housing and liner, different cables.


Thanks a lot...


----------



## p_shep (Jan 12, 2005)

Any lubication reccomended for these? I imagine a graphite powder would work well.


----------



## A-Hol (Dec 31, 2005)

*Was going to ask the same...*

What about Tri Flow?


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*no lube!*

The less lubricant you put in there the better!
If you set-up the i-links right with ongoing inner liner it is unlikely there is any dirt entering the system. I-links usually come with "slick"-wires which make for ultraslick cable action. you don't want to put any fluid in there as it might only get stickier.

Only if your cable are getting sticky with time would i put some ultra thin lubricant. But more to wash out any dirt inside the liner/cable than to lubricate.There is a nice cable-cleaner tool available in motorcycle shops . It allows you to use any sort of pressurized fluids from sprays to be flushed through the cable. Those are used in motocross for decades and really are the hot ticket to get clean, slick cables again.

See pic below of that little tool. This is the best and easiest way to flush old, dirty cables. you can use anything from WD-40 to any other sort of thin lubricant. the pressure of the spray will force the fluid through the cables and on the other end you will have all the dirt come out. easy service which takes only 2-3 minutes.


----------



## ash240 (Jun 2, 2007)

you do NOT want to use WD40 or similar since they turn "gummy".
I would be looking for a cleaner not lubricant, then pick a decent lubricant IF you need it.
I am not aware of any spray lubes that work well and don't go off. 
Also keep in mind you can add condensation depending on what spray you use. It's also going to take awhile to dry out. You can't use any form of compressed air without adding moisture.


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

ash240 said:


> you do NOT want to use WD40 or similar since they turn "gummy".
> I would be looking for a cleaner not lubricant, then pick a decent lubricant IF you need it.
> I am not aware of any spray lubes that work well and don't go off.
> Also keep in mind you can add condensation depending on what spray you use. It's also going to take awhile to dry out. You can't use any form of compressed air without adding moisture.


I never use WD-40. It was just to give an example. I personally use something which contains MOs2...very thin penetrating oil. Anyway - it makes a BIG difference if you have dirty cables and lube them the way i explained above. There is no other way to actually clean the interior of dirty cables than to "wash" them. The spray will actually flush all dirt out. They will be almost as slick as new BUT as mentioned any oil or humidity will attract dirt and make for sticky cables again later on.


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

ash240 said:


> It's good you don't use WD40 type products and lucky someone corrected others from using them on your recommendation. We would not want to create an artificial need for cables would we
> 
> You "gain" from the carrier the "oil" sits in which can clean out SOME of the rubbish. You don't really gain much from the actual "oil".
> 
> ...


Here's a special product i used during my motocross career:
http://www.ipone.fr/EN/univers.php?univers=10#

You'll find it under "Greasing" ...Spray cables

But i ended up using cheapo "MoS-thing" from a supermarket and had really good results for years. now on my bikes i hardly ever need it anyway.the I-Links are really well sealed and hardly ever need any service.


----------



## ash240 (Jun 2, 2007)

It's good you don't use WD40 type products and lucky someone corrected others from using them on your recommendation. We would not want to create an artificial need for cables would we  

You "gain" from the carrier the "oil" sits in which can clean out SOME of the rubbish. You don't really gain much from the actual "oil".

MOs2 is not really the correct lubricant for this application (metal to metal cables, yes it's ok). Even PTFE would probably be much better. Smaller particle size (at the prices you are paying), less likely to "gum" up and works better in this type of application. MOs2 tends to work well in high load, high pressure environments. Not metal to "plastic". PTFE functions well in this type of application IF you don't put too much. Clean the cable out as you suggest with a synthetic safe cleaner then put a drop of a light PTFE "oil" per cable. It's best to run the cable in and out but that's not always possible so you just give it some time and reasonable temps to work through. 

I did not mention the temperature issues associated with your suggestion either. I find it odd that you would suggest something that thickens in low temps but you know what you are doing.....

There is a specific pressure pack product which is perfect for this type of thing but I can't recall the name. The propellant in most causes a lot of issues adding condensation. Who want's to force moisture into cables? OR put WAY too much oil in? Which will just "attract" dirt and dust and gum up? 

"Dry" air would be good after a proper carrier was put through. Then follow with PTFE and a lowish dry air pressure if you can't work it through. That is a really good way to do the job without just putting more crap in the lines. 


My opinion, run cheapish lightish cables IF you have constant issues with friction (IE replace each year).
If you run multiple years with no real problem then using the best light cable solution you can.


----------



## xcracer87 (Dec 30, 2005)

or you can just use triflow. cheaper.


----------



## p_shep (Jan 12, 2005)

Well, I ment for the alu links, not the cable, since they'll be rubbing metal against metal.


----------



## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

Is their a difference between the brake housing liner and housing from the der housing and liner, or is it simply the same with dif cables used? I have a brake set and need more for the der set I also have.


----------



## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

KenDobson said:


> Is their a difference between the brake housing liner and housing from the der housing and liner, or is it simply the same with dif cables used? I have a brake set and need more for the der set I also have.


Its the same different cables.


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

KenDobson said:


> Is their a difference between the brake housing liner and housing from the der housing and liner, or is it simply the same with dif cables used? I have a brake set and need more for the der set I also have.


Just to clarify Juanmoretimes somewhat strange answer: the housing and liner ist always the same. It's just the inner wires and some endcaps that differ.

bye
nino


----------



## A-Hol (Dec 31, 2005)

Got mine to finally work on my full suspension by buying an extra kit. I had to get the links to fully compress and then zip tie them to the stops. Now I have a lot of extra links.


----------



## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

Since I had another set of Alligators for shifting but no brake specific endcaps, I´ve used a plastic Shimano cap...works perfectly well...


----------



## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

Does anyone know where you can get just the inner liner? Crashed this week-end and wrecked my rear derailleur cable. I had some spare links around, but the last 4" of the inner liner needs to be replaced. 

Thanks


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

civil said:


> Does anyone know where you can get just the inner liner? Crashed this week-end and wrecked my rear derailleur cable. I had some spare links around, but the last 4" of the inner liner needs to be replaced.
> 
> Thanks


Just in case you can't find it elsewhere - i have both colours: 
transparent or black


----------



## saga (Feb 12, 2005)

nino, any tips please on full suspension set ups with i-links. I've had trouble shifting on the rear cogs since I bought these. Front works okay so all good there.

I'm having real trouble with my shifting in the back when ever the suspension moves under compression it's half shifting (ghost shifting). 

I've had the bike shop check the shifting at least 4 times to solve it but to no avail. It really sucks, spoils my ride. Is or was this a common problem? Any tips. I believe its a problem with the design in some respects but I suspect this is mainly down to the shifting housing (i-links) which seem awful. 

The suspension movement upwards is causing the mini shifts. Again any help would be very much appreciated.


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Make sure the section where it bridges your front triangle and your rear triangle does not have a tight radius to begin with. I-links can not have a tight bend radius like normal housing or Nokons. Try to keep this section of I-links as straight as possible.

Also I find with full suspension bikes they are very finicky with derailleur hanger aligment. They have to be perfectly aligned. Any slight mis-alignment or twist in the hanger results in ghost shifting under bump I find.



saga said:


> nino, any tips please on full suspension set ups with i-links. I've had trouble shifting on the rear cogs since I bought these. Front works okay so all good there.
> 
> I'm having real trouble with my shifting in the back when ever the suspension moves under compression it's half shifting (ghost shifting).
> 
> ...


----------

