# Dosun D600 ( metal body STVZO light with external lithium battery )



## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Dosun D600 ...























































ok so the old Model Dosun D1 is $350 OUCH ! and the new D600 is not available at all. so at first i was like forget it ...

but the D600 is available in Japan, and out of curiosity i converted the price in Yen into dollars and it is ... $120 !

damn ! that's crazy ! that's one third of what you pay for the OLD model in US !

now, interestingly enough the old model is more expensive in Japan too, about $200 ( converted from Yen ) but still half as much as it is in US.

the new light is better anyway. it's just a marketing strategy to have the old light keep its original price. basically the new light has redesigned mount, simplified operation and external switch. apparently it also has a new cable plug, which also apparently is crap. the light output is supposedly increased from 500 to 600 lumen. of course i don't believe it has 600 lumens for a second, but it's pretty bright for a STVZO light.

anyway it's sold by amazon japan. i'm thinking about ordering it from Japan through Amazon. what do you think ?

for $350 for a 4 year old light made by a company from Taiwan it was a joke. but for $120 for a new light we have to consider it seriously.

this light has approximately the same output as Philips SafeRide / LBL and approximately the same price. of course Dosun is designed in Taiwan while Philips is designed in Germany which should make it much more reliable. The only actual user review on Amazon Japan for the D600 is 3 star and says the cable plug broke. so obviously the D600 is much less reliable than LBL, but ...

but the D600 has 3.5 hour battery life versus 2 hour for LBL and this is at the same output level and from a light head one third the size. the "secret" of course is external lithium battery pack. both lights are metal, but the LBL runs on four AA batteries whereas the D600 runs on external 2 cell Lithium pack.

another advantage of D600 is that it has 3 power levels: 3.5 hour, 5 hour and 9 hour run time. this is perfect. on the other hand the Philips only has 2 power modes, where one is too high ( not enough run time ) and one is too low ( barely visible ) and you sort of have to do half your ride in one mode and half in the other.

what do you think ? have you ever ordered anything from Japan ? from Amazon Japan ?


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

well i was unable to order D600 anywhere - nobody ships to US. i tried a bunch of Japanese stores - none shipped to US ( including Amazon ). i tried a store from Sweden - didn't ship to US either. gave up.

considering the D1 is a 2009 model i certainly wasn't going to pay $350 for it that it costs in US. but i couldn't get the D600 anywhere at all.

then i decided to check D400 ... 

interestingly enough D400 is available in Taiwan stores ( Dosun is made in Taiwan ) whereas D600 is available only in Japanese stores, but not in Taiwan stores.

anyway i was able to order D400 for $175 shipped to US. 

it is hard for me to say this is a good value. the Philips LBL is certainly a better value. 

on the other hand D400 is still a much better value than B&M Ixon IQ Speed, which is a system comparable to D400 in the sense that it has a huge battery and a lightweight light head. 

my problem with Philips LBL wasn't the output, or the price, but the fact that it weighs 300 grams ( just weighed it ) and all of that weight is held by a flimsy mount which can't keep it level as you ride over bumps. then to add insult to injury it runs out of juice in 2 hours.

by contrast D400 light head is 90 grams - less than 1/3 the weight of Philips, and the run time is 5.5 hours.

i hope that Taiwan shop comes trough with the goods. i also wonder how long the shipping will take - it basically ships from the other side of the planet. there was no expedited shipping option.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

are you replacing the philips or is this going to be light #12 in your setup?


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

Have looked into the Philips ActiveRide-light?
Philips AR800DBX1 - ActiveRide battery-driven Dual Beam800lm
Philips ActiveRide - YouTube

Philips ActiveRide LED Dual Beam schwarz

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

cue003 said:


> are you replacing the philips or is this going to be light #12 in your setup?


so far it is just a test. i need to actually ride with the light to know how it stacks up against the Philips in the real world.

another variable is the handlebar shape. on the bike i'm using now the handlebar has a lot of curvature in the center which makes it impossible to mount two Philips lights due to how wide the Philips is. on the other hand if i switch to a road style bike i would be able to have two Philips lights on it.

also, i am not entirely certain whether i will actually get the light considering i ordered it from a site in taiwan, and the overall abysmal availability of these lights.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

HakanC said:


> Have looked into the Philips ActiveRide-light?
> Philips AR800DBX1 - ActiveRide battery-driven Dual Beam800lm
> Philips ActiveRide - YouTube
> 
> ...


hahahahaha ! ! ! i just can't win !

i love how these forums work. nobody ever answers until you buy something then everybody comes in and says you bought the wrong product. it worked like that last year as well.

no i didn't see Philips ActiveRide before. i will look at it now ...


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

HakanC said:


> Have looked into the Philips ActiveRide-light?
> Philips AR800DBX1 - ActiveRide battery-driven Dual Beam800lm
> Philips ActiveRide - YouTube
> 
> ...


ok now that i've taken a look it appears that ActiveRide is actualy a knock-off of the original Dosun D1 ! ! !

the D1 had high and low beams the same way as ActiveRide does. however Dosun later got rid of this gimmick realizing it is dumb, and the new D400/D600 don't have it.

but the ActiveRide appears to be a bad compromise. the high and low beams require different reflectors, and by using same reflector for both neither one is very good.

it would be much better to have a dedicated "low beam" or "road" or "stvzo" lamp and a dedicated "high beam" lamp like Light & Motion Seca. this way each beam can be shaped by its own reflector custom tailored to it.

so what i wanted was a smaller, lighter SafeRide with external lithium pack - and at first glance that's what ActiveRide is, but upon closer inspection it is actually a strange animal.

the high beam on ActiveRide is useless garbage, and for just using the low beam the light is quite big and expensive, although it might still be better than Dosun, but i would need to do more research.

basically the ActiveRide is a compromise between road and off road light, whereas SafeRide is a pure road light, with more optimal beam pattern for the road.

the fact that i didn't know about this light shows however that i need to be doing a better job with my research. whether this light is better than Dosun or worse i should have at least known about it.

i will need to read up more on the ActiveRide in particular and do more research in general.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

ok so apparently the low-beam ( road ) light from the ActiveRide looks like this:










as compared to Saferide which looks like this:










and Dosun ( D600 pictured, the D400 i ordered may look slightly different )










clearly the SafeRide and Dosun are designed for road use while ActiveRide is not - the beam has too much width and not enough throw.

of course between these 3 lights the ActiveRide on low beam will put down the most lumens, but we're not after Lumens here as any $40 chinese light will put out more lumens than any of these 3 lights. we're here after efficient and even coverage with good cutoff.

the most problematic aspect of the beam shot of the ActiveRide to me is that the nearfield is significantly brighter than what should have been the main part of the beam. this is unacceptable because the eyes will adjust to the brighter part of the beam and that will diminish your ability to see precisely where you're trying to improve your ability to see. this is again clear evidence that the beam was designed for off-road use not road use where you want the brightest point much further away.

even on the Dosun i'm not 100% comfortable with the high brightness it has in the near field. the SafeRide is probably the best in this regard - it puts the light precisely where it is supposed to go - unfortunately it is the worst in other regards like weight and battery life.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

androgen said:


> ....
> the most problematic aspect of the beam shot of the ActiveRide to me is that the nearfield is significantly brighter than what should have been the main part of the beam. this is unacceptable because the eyes will adjust to the brighter part of the beam and that will diminish your ability to see precisely where you're trying to improve your ability to see. this is again clear evidence that the beam was designed for off-road use not road use where you want the brightest point much further away.
> 
> ...


This is not necessarily always true. The pace/speed at which you are riding plays a big part in the type of light output that will be needed. The beam being focused down the road instead of in the near field in more for higher speed riding where you can see and adjust to obstacles/road conditions accordingly because you are going so fast. We are all racers in our heads and believe we ride at those high speed levels and hell some really do continuously ride at those levels ... and at night .... in a crowded city with cross streets and stop lights etc.... but the VAST majority do not.

Which brings us back to finding a balance of some sort between the two distance and near field visibility.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

cue003 said:


> This is not necessarily always true. The pace/speed at which you are riding plays a big part in the type of light output that will be needed. The beam being focused down the road instead of in the near field in more for higher speed riding where you can see and adjust to obstacles/road conditions accordingly because you are going so fast. We are all racers in our heads and believe we ride at those high speed levels and hell some really do continuously ride at those levels ... and at night .... in a crowded city with cross streets and stop lights etc.... but the VAST majority do not.
> 
> Which brings us back to finding a balance of some sort between the two distance and near field visibility.


i'd like to have roughly even lighting level from about 3 meter to 10 meters ahead of me, with lower, but not zero lighting level in the first 3 meters. beyond 10 meters i will use my helmet light.

the SafeRide pattern is remarkably close to that, but the light itself falls short in other areas such as size, weight and battery run time.

overall the situation in the market is abysmal.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

androgen said:


> i'd like to have roughly even lighting level from about 3 meter to 10 meters ahead of me, with lower, but not zero lighting level in the first 3 meters. beyond 10 meters i will use my helmet light.
> 
> the SafeRide pattern is remarkably close to that, but the light itself falls short in other areas such as size, weight and battery run time.
> 
> overall the situation in the market is abysmal.


market situation = abysmal = business opportunity

where there is a need someone will pay accordingly. Get your creative juices flowing Androgen!!!


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## CHnuschti (Nov 12, 2008)

HakanC said:


> Have looked into the Philips ActiveRide-light?


The Philips Activeride seems indeed a promising light. However, for my taste its presentation is a bit too "colorful".
Read this (your own thread!), the real test seems not to keep up with the "commercials": New Philps light

@androgen
You are aware of "camera settings"? Beamshots are only comparable if shot with the identical settings. It's no problem to shoots pics of a 200 lumen lamp and let it appear brighter than then newest Betty ...
Just a thought, since you're comparing pics at random ...


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## Khrystyan27 (Jul 3, 2011)

I love it's beam projection.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

CHnuschti said:


> @androgen
> You are aware of "camera settings"? Beamshots are only comparable if shot with the identical settings. It's no problem to shoots pics of a 200 lumen lamp and let it appear brighter than then newest Betty ...
> Just a thought, since you're comparing pics at random ...


why does everybody think i'm an idiot ?

yes i own a DSLR i understand what aperture, exposure and ISO is.

i also own a LUX meter, although the only reason i got it was to test how bright my studio lights are for my youtube videos. i knew a TV studio is supposed to have 1,000 LUX and my lights produce about that much. upgrading the lights would have cost $1,000. the meter was $30 and so it saved me a bunch of money by letting me know i already have the levels i need.

the difference in beam pattern between the 3 lights is obvious from the beam shots i posted. i didn't post the beam shots to compare output levels, but to compare beam patterns.

you people ...


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Khrystyan27 said:


> I love it's beam projection.


what do you mean ?


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## Khrystyan27 (Jul 3, 2011)

I wanted to say that I really love how the Dosun D600 projects the light on the road, compared to other expensive and useless products from let's say Busch&Muller and other manufacturers...

It's beam pattern is extremely close to the beam of my car's OEM HID's. 

I'm thinking about buying this light when they will accept shipping to Romania.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Khrystyan27 said:


> I wanted to say that I really love how the Dosun D600 projects the light on the road, compared to other expensive and useless products from let's say Busch&Muller and other manufacturers...
> 
> It's beam pattern is extremely close to the beam of my car's OEM HID's.
> 
> I'm thinking about buying this light when they will accept shipping to Romania.


this light seems to be cheap in Japan and expensive everywhere else. it is in fact more expensive in Taiwan ( where it is made ! ) than it is in Japan. and you can't even buy the more powerful D600 version in Taiwan which is silly. of course it is not as unusual as it may seem - for example made-in-Germany BMW cars actually are cheaper in USA than in Germany. it is possible that in the future the light will hit new markets at a good price, or that may never happen.

as for the beam - i don't think we are close to car OEM HID yet. the systems used in cars are very powerful and very sophisticated and their beam is very wide and even and has a very sharp cutoff. there are no bike lights like this on the market, and in fact you don't even want a bike light like this because you would need a very large battery to power it. for a bike light we want a beam that still is bright and with a sharp cutoff like car HID but we want the beam much narrower ( to save power ) and we want it to have maximum brightness at a certain distance from the bike ( at about 10 meters, with effective lighting from about 1 to 20 meters ) whereas cars need their beams bright for at least 50 meters.

of course it depends on how fast you ride and how good your braking skills are. my braking skills are not very good at all. when i brake my rear wheel locks up comletely and my front wheel is only braking at about 50% capacity. i once crashed and dislocated my shoulder because i couldn't brake fast enough, and if i had better technique i might have stopped in time. but whatever your stopping distance is, your brightest part of the beam should probably extend from that distance up to about 1.5X that distance to give you time to identify the obstacle and react. so if your stopping distance is 10 meters i would like to have the brightest part of the beam from 10 to 15 meters or so, with usable light from 1 to 20 meters.

the B&M Ixon IQ ( and Speed ) systems is actually quite close to this ideal, but i don't like that the beam has sharp cutoff on all 4 sides - it should only have a sharp cutoff on the top, and feather out gradually on the other 3 sides. another obvious problem with B&M Ixon IQ ( and Speed ) systems is just overall lack of output.

an ideal bike light pattern would actually be in-between Car OEM HID lights and B&M Ixon IQ light.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

androgen said:


> *My* ideal bike light pattern would actually be in-between Car OEM HID lights and B&M Ixon IQ light.


Fixed that for you.

[Soapbox]
What works for your use in urban city riding is quite different than what I like best for my forest trail riding. Other fellow trail riders like something other than what I like because it suits them better. That's A OK!

Your black and white statements on MTBR are mostly your opinion and preferences, not facts. Not respecting others opinions and preferences leads to pointless internet arguing where no one can possibly "win". This forum is typically a pleasant spot to share opinions and experiences with most users respecting the fact that each have theirs and are entitled to them.
[/Soapbox]


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Vancbiker said:


> Fixed that for you.
> 
> [Soapbox]
> What works for your use in urban city riding is quite different than what I like best for my forest trail riding. Other fellow trail riders like something other than what I like because it suits them better. That's A OK![/Soapbox]


only an idiot would buy an STVZO light to ride trails with ...


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Vancbiker said:


> [Soapbox]Your black and white statements on MTBR are mostly your opinion and preferences, not facts. Not respecting others opinions and preferences leads to pointless internet arguing where no one can possibly "win". This forum is typically a pleasant spot to share opinions and experiences with most users respecting the fact that each have theirs and are entitled to them.
> [/Soapbox]


it's not my fault that i'm always right ...


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

androgen said:


> only an idiot would buy an STVZO light to ride trails with ...


Maybe I'm an idiot cause I'd love to get the reflector out of a Saferide to build an XML based trail light for bar use.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Vancbiker said:


> Maybe I'm an idiot cause I'd love to get the reflector out of a Saferide to build an XML based trail light for bar use.


what for ? just get a NiteRider Pro 3600 and be done with it.

even if you put two XML2s in a SafeRide and drive them to the limit it won't beat the NiteRider, because the NR is already properly designed for trail use while the SafeRide is not.


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## 6ix (Sep 12, 2013)

androgen said:


> it's not my fault that i'm always right ...


We accept there's a need for a village idiot for the globe to keep spinning but why, why, why are we stuck with this guy?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

androgen said:


> what for ? just get a NiteRider Pro 3600 and be done with it.
> 
> even if you put two XML2s in a SafeRide and drive them to the limit it won't beat the NiteRider, because the NR is already properly designed for trail use while the SafeRide is not.


For starters my experience NR, albeit quite dated, is their quality is poor. I had a 50% failure rate within 2 years with their products. Fixing them is what gave me the motivation to quit buying overpriced bike lights and build my own.

I'm not certain of the beam style of the 3600, but I expect it is a great bright flood light that may throw a fair distance due to brute power. I'm not a fan of that beam style. A shaped beam is something I'm intrigued by and would like to experiment with.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Vancbiker said:


> For starters my experience NR, albeit quite dated, is their quality is poor. I had a 50% failure rate within 2 years with their products. Fixing them is what gave me the motivation to quit buying overpriced bike lights and build my own.
> 
> I'm not certain of the beam style of the 3600, but I expect it is a great bright flood light that may throw a fair distance due to brute power. I'm not a fan of that beam style. A shaped beam is something I'm intrigued by and would like to experiment with.


but a shaped beam only makes sense on a shaped path, that is to say a road. a Seca has a beam that is about half the width of NR and better shaped, and two Secas have the same output as a NR and about the same system weight and cost. the saferide beam is half the width of seca, but 1/5th the power, and double the size and weight.

a Seca on helmet and a NR on bar would make a great off-road combo.

the Philips beam is so precisely shaped that the only time it works properly is when you aim it. 1 minute later it already is misaligned. i re-adjust mine 20-30 times per ride ... on paved road.

you can see in my video what happens when it gets misaligned:






i didn't misalign it on purpose. i simply forgot to straighten it after it sagged under its own weight overnight while fully tightened. it simply projects a tiny spot on the pavement. the whole benefit of the shaped beam pattern is destroyed. it is practically impossible to keep it properly leveled, which is one of the reasons i'm looking for alternatives.

the Dosun beam isn't as well shaped as Philips, but form my experience, the Philips beam is impossible to make use of in real world anyway. they would need to totally redesign the mount and cut the weight of the light at least in half for that beam to begin to be useful.

the Seca is a much better light overall. it is actually smoother and more even than Philips but best of all it works well through a range of angles, not just at a precise one angle. however for an off-road bar light i would want a super-wide beam like the NR3600. i posted a video in this thread of the NR beam on a singletrack where you can clearly see how good it is. but if you missed it here it is again:

Chumash.wmv - YouTube

if you put a modded saferide in its place it would be laughable in comparison.

basically NR3600 has perfect beam for off roading. seca has perfect beam for the road. saferide has perfect beam for MUP and German roads.

i like to have a SafeRide type light because it is "free" in a sense that it adds no weight to my helmet like Seca and it doesn't add any glare to other people like NR. so there is no reason not to have it ON THE ROAD. in fact there is no reason not to have TWO of them. the only reason i don't have two is because i have a weird shaped bar that won't let me fit two. so one of the main reasons i'm looking at Dosun is because it is smaller, and i could fit two of them on the bar.

however, obviously if Dosun sucks then i won't be getting a second one ...


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

CHnuschti said:


> The Philips Activeride seems indeed a promising light. However, for my taste its presentation is a bit too "colorful".
> Read this (your own thread!), the real test seems not to keep up with the "commercials": New Philps light


Please note:
I will never buy an ActiveRide light myself, I am more then satisfied with my modified 80 Lux Philips-light.
With an LFlex and a 7,4V LiION-external battery and 1A through the LEDs I get >120 Lux (verified by my Lux-meter) out of it.

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

androgen said:


> i love how these forums work. nobody ever answers until you buy something then everybody comes in and says you bought the wrong product. it worked like that last year as well.


I will chose to ignore that and instead comment on


androgen said:


> the Philips beam is so precisely shaped that the only time it works properly is when you aim it. 1 minute later it already is misaligned. i re-adjust mine 20-30 times per ride ... on paved road.


Which type of holder do You use with Your Philips SafeRide?

The Gen1 holder








or the Gen2 holder








The reason I ask is that soo many people apparently have been dissapointed in the Gen2-holder that Philips is sending a Gen1-holder to those who complain to them about the Gen2-holder.
This is published on Amazon by Philips







In English: call 0080074454775 to get a free Gen1-holder

And I know fore sure that the big european mail order bike store Rose now includes the Gen1-holder for free with every Philips 80 Lux light:
Philips front light LED BikeLight SafeRide 80 offers at the cycling shop Rose Bikes UK 
I ordered the Philips 80 Lux light myself a couple of weeks ago when they sold it for 50 € (as that day special offer) and in the box was two holders, one Gen1 and one Gen2.

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

androgen said:


> ...*but a shaped beam only makes sense on a shaped path, that is to say a road.* a Seca has a beam that is about half the width of NR and better shaped, and two Secas have the same output as a NR and about the same system weight and cost. the saferide beam is half the width of seca, but 1/5th the power, and double the size and weight.
> 
> a Seca on helmet and a NR on bar would make a great off-road combo.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't go quite that far. True perhaps if the output is as low as a standard Saferide but if modded with twin XM-L's there is going to be some spill. I would think that might work well on trails as well as long as you are using an additional helmet lamp for spot/throw duties.

What you said about the phillips beam ...


> the Philips beam is so precisely shaped that the only time it works properly is when you aim it. 1 minute later it already is misaligned. i re-adjust mine 20-30 times per ride ... on paved road.


...I take this is a problem with the lamp moving around on the bars but I think it also has to do with the limitations of the beam pattern/lamp design. No matter how you set the lamp there is going to be dead spots, either close in near the bike or beyond the cutoff ( depending on how it is aimed ).

I've been watching the evolution of German style lamps that use special custom reflectors designed to produce "sculpted road beam patterns". Some of these are getting better. Shouldn't be too long before someone creates one without dead spots/artifacts.

I'd like to see a road lamp made the following way: two way Sculpted beam pattern ( high/low ) in one package with remote. Hopefully with at least a 600 lumen low and a 1200 lumen high. The high beam would use a separate reflector for additional throw when needed. Done right it could make a lot of people happy. On the other hand if the design is too large ( or too ugly ) no one here ( in USA ) is going to want one.

In the mean time I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Some of the dynamo set-ups are starting to look real good. I have a feeling by next year I might start experimenting with dynamo lamps just to try something new.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

In my mind a trail is a shaped path so maybe a shaped beam would be nice. My main interest in trying a build with XMLs and a reflector like the Saferide is to see how the "cutoff" works. Currently all my lights use a round reflector or optic. The resulting beam is a cone shape. When the beam is aimed to illuminate out to about 100 feet, there is a usable spill down to light closer in to the bike. An equal spill goes to the sides which is OK as long as it is not too bright. Last, there is spill upwards that, IMO, is pretty much wasted. I put a shroud on one of my earlier lights that had too wide a beam. It shielded the top entirely and about 50% of the sides. It worked to block that spill but though made of aluminum and polished it mostly blocked the light, instead of directing it forward. That's where the Saferide reflector intrigues me. Take the light that is wasted in side and upward spill and direct it forward. I only want to light up where I am going, not what is above or to the side of me. When I'm on tight twisty trail or switchbacks my helmet light is all I need to light up where I'm going to go. I may find that losing that upward spill might make low branches harder to see, but that's one of the things I want to test.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

It looks like the new (?) Magicshine eagle has a similar design to the original post
MAGICSHINE


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

HakanC said:


> Please note:
> I will never buy an ActiveRide light myself, I am more then satisfied with my modified 80 Lux Philips-light.
> With an LFlex and a 7,4V LiION-external battery and 1A through the LEDs I get >120 Lux (verified by my Lux-meter) out of it.
> 
> ...


i know this isn't the DIY forum, but did many people modify their SafeRide ? i thought it was just Penthelman ? did you do the same upgrade as him or did you use your own design ? are there any detailed instructions on the net on how to do this ? or do you simply have to know how to design LED lights on your own ?

finally - 120 Lux ? is that just a 50% improvement, or is the beam also wider due to larger LEDs ? how much of a boost are you getting ? what about Penthelman, is his also 120 Lux ? do you think simply using two SafeRides would be as bright ?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Vancbiker said:


> In my mind a trail is a shaped path so maybe a shaped beam would be nice. My main interest in trying a build with XMLs and a reflector like the Saferide is to see how the "cutoff" works. Currently all my lights use a round reflector or optic. The resulting beam is a cone shape. When the beam is aimed to illuminate out to about 100 feet, there is a usable spill down to light closer in to the bike. An equal spill goes to the sides which is OK as long as it is not too bright.  Last, there is spill upwards that, IMO, is pretty much wasted. I put a shroud on one of my earlier lights that had too wide a beam. It shielded the top entirely and about 50% of the sides. It worked to block that spill but though made of aluminum and polished it mostly blocked the light, instead of directing it forward. That's where the Saferide reflector intrigues me. Take the light that is wasted in side and upward spill and direct it forward. I only want to light up where I am going, not what is above or to the side of me. When I'm on tight twisty trail or switchbacks my helmet light is all I need to light up where I'm going to go. I may find that losing that upward spill might make low branches harder to see, but that's one of the things I want to test.


When mountain biking there are times when the upward spill of the lamp actually does something useful. If you are riding on trails that have roller-coaster sections ( short up/downs sections ) the upward spill helps see what's coming up just before you reach the bottom. Secondly it also helps with seeing the spider webs. For the last couple weeks the spiders where I live have been very active. Must be the season when they get busy. Just last week I was lucky enough to avoid one that was perfectly aligned with my face. I didn't see it till I was almost on top of it. Luckily I was going slow enough to stop in time. After that I started using my helmet light a little more.

If you ride trails that are not used much the spiders can be a big problem. I'm still trying to figure out how they get their webs to span the distance between trees which at times can be quite wide. You really do have to marvel at nature sometimes. Spiders must have a brain the size of a pin head yet somehow they know how to build a web in a wide area and to catch prey. Simply amazing.

On a side note; Something I've seen around this time of year that I wondered if anyone else has ever seen. I'm going to call it "floating leaf syndrome". It's when you see a leaf just hanging in the air and not moving. It is really spooky when viewed at night. What it actually is of course is a leaf that has somehow attached itself to a single strand of spider web. When viewed at night the strand of web is almost invisible. I've seen examples of this now on numerous occasions. If a wind is blowing the leaf will spin. Next time I see one I'll stop to take a photo.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Vancbiker said:


> In my mind a trail is a shaped path so maybe a shaped beam would be nice. My main interest in trying a build with XMLs and a reflector like the Saferide is to see how the "cutoff" works. Currently all my lights use a round reflector or optic. The resulting beam is a cone shape. When the beam is aimed to illuminate out to about 100 feet, there is a usable spill down to light closer in to the bike. An equal spill goes to the sides which is OK as long as it is not too bright. Last, there is spill upwards that, IMO, is pretty much wasted. I put a shroud on one of my earlier lights that had too wide a beam. It shielded the top entirely and about 50% of the sides. It worked to block that spill but though made of aluminum and polished it mostly blocked the light, instead of directing it forward. That's where the Saferide reflector intrigues me. Take the light that is wasted in side and upward spill and direct it forward. I only want to light up where I am going, not what is above or to the side of me. When I'm on tight twisty trail or switchbacks my helmet light is all I need to light up where I'm going to go. I may find that losing that upward spill might make low branches harder to see, but that's one of the things I want to test.


still bad idea. reflector in SafeRide is not 100% efficient. light is lost in reflection. this is why optics are popular - they help you get high lumen numbers, albeit in a useless beam. but as we all know Lupine is junk so all they care about is pointless numbers, not whether the light is of any use or not.

and reflectance efficiency depends on angle of incidence as well ...

that's why the new IQ2 system by B&M uses a combination of optics and reflectors.

hm ...


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> When mountain biking there are times when the upward spill of the lamp actually does something useful. If you are riding on trails that have roller-coaster sections ( short up/downs sections ) the upward spill helps see what's coming up just before you reach the bottom. Secondly it also helps with seeing the spider webs. For the last couple weeks the spiders where I live have been very active. Must be the season when they get busy. Just last week I was lucky enough to avoid one that was perfectly aligned with my face. I didn't see it till I was almost on top of it. Luckily I was going slow enough to stop in time. After that I started using my helmet light a little more.
> 
> If you ride trails that are not used much the spiders can be a big problem. I'm still trying to figure out how they get their webs to span the distance between trees which at times can be quite wide. You really do have to marvel at nature sometimes. Spiders must have a brain the size of a pin head yet somehow they know how to build a web in a wide area and to catch prey. Simply amazing.
> 
> On a side note; Something I've seen around this time of year that I wondered if anyone else has ever seen. I'm going to call it "floating leaf syndrome". It's when you see a leaf just hanging in the air and not moving. It is really spooky when viewed at night. What it actually is of course is a leaf that has somehow attached itself to a single strand of spider web. When viewed at night the strand of web is almost invisible. I've seen examples of this now on numerous occasions. If a wind is blowing the leaf will spin. Next time I see one I'll stop to take a photo.


yeah forget it, the last thing i need is to be smacked in the face by some branch because my light was so efficient it only illuminated the ground ...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

androgen said:


> still bad idea. reflector in SafeRide is not 100% efficient. light is lost in reflection. *this is why optics are popular - they help you get high lumen numbers, albeit in a useless beam. but as we all know Lupine is junk so all they care about is pointless numbers, not whether the light is of any use or not.
> *....


 to quote an ex-president, "There he goes again". 

This begs mentioning of the old proverb, "One mans trash is another mans treasure". It also begs a much newer expression that is much simpler and to the point; ....DUDE! :lol:


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

varider said:


> It looks like the new (?) Magicshine eagle has a similar design to the original post
> MAGICSHINE


i saw that light - it isn't very similar. i would say there are 3 categories of lights with respect to beam pattern.

1 - trash like Lupine and 99% of Chinese lights, which use generic beam patterns not optimized for biking. good for wasting money and blinding yourself while not actually being able to see anything.

2 - lights that use some sort of gentle optimization by whatever means to slightly tailor the beam to biking needs such as L&M Seca, NiteRider Pro 3600 and 2200. these lights tend to actually be the best. they are bright and their beam is smooth and well placed. they tend to have a very bright hot spot and a wide cone of light and no sharp transition from hotspot to spill but rather a gradual one. as a result one Seca Lumen is worth approximately two Lupine lumens.

3 - Lights where the beam is 100% shaped to exactly project only where necessary and nowhere else. these lights tend to be severely underpowered, only putting out about 50 to 500 lumens. their beams are OVER optimized to compensate for their extremely low output levels and as a result the beams have jagged edges and are in general not pretty. this category includes Philips Saferide, Dosun D1, D400 and D600, B&M Ixon IQ and Ixon IQ Speed.

One SafeRide lumen is probably worth 4 Lupine Lumens. So a 300 Lumen SafeRide is about as good as a 1200 Lumen Piko when it comes to the road. however the problem here is that this only works when the light is precisely aimed at a straight road. and in practice this is hard to realize, so i don't recommend these types of lights except when you want minimize glare for others on the road.

the lights to get are the 2nd category lights - the ones that intellignetly shape the beam, but not to excess, and not at the expense of lower outputs.

that magicshine of yours looks like it would be somewhere in the 2nd category, but the problem is in the 2nd category there are lights with measured outputs in the 1,500 to 3,000 range, whereas 600 magicshine lumens is probably about 400 real world Lumens which is not much more than 300 real world lumens of SafeRide and SafeRide has much more aggressive beam shaping.

as compared to the dosun, one of the main reasons i'm looking at it is the external battery, which this magicshine doesn't have.


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

androgen said:


> i know this isn't the DIY forum, but did many people modify their SafeRide ? i thought it was just Penthelman ? did you do the same upgrade as him or did you use your own design ? are there any detailed instructions on the net on how to do this ? or do you simply have to know how to design LED lights on your own ?


I know of a few people who have modifed there Philips 80 Lux lights.
Pethelmans modification is much more advanced then mine, I only replaced the LED driver.
Its a simple and straightforward modification, read more about it here







Philips LED bike light - Page 3
Philips LED bike light - Page 3

/Håkan 
SWEDEN


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

OK i see i'm probably going to skip this option though. Too much work.

What's that timer in SafeRide you mentioned about 45 minutes or something like that - i never heard about that - what's the deal ?


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

androgen said:


> What's that timer in SafeRide you mentioned about 45 minutes or something like that - i never heard about that - what's the deal ?


AFAIK there is no timer like that in the Gen2-version of the Philips-light.

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

HakanC said:


> AFAIK there is no timer like that in the Gen2-version of the Philips-light.
> 
> /Håkan
> SWEDEN


and how do i know which version i have ?


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

androgen said:


> and how do i know which version i have ?


Perhaps You can take a look at the holder?
Read more here: #26

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

HakanC said:


> Perhaps You can take a look at the holder?
> Read more here: #26
> 
> /Håkan
> SWEDEN


well then, i have the Generation 1. mine does not have the 3D mount.

the holder is not the problem. it's the weight of the light that's the problem. the holder would work fine with any other light.

Dosun weight = 90 gram
Philips weight = 300 grams

what do they expect ?

ActiveRide is a step in the right direction, except for that idiotic dual beam design. Dosun D1 had that design back in 2009 and they discontinued it. Now Philips wants us to think it is a very clever innovation.

B&M is doing it right with DayTime running lights on their IQ2. The Dosun dynamo version seems to have something similar to IQ2's daylight running lights. The Dosun also has the USB charging port like the top of the line B&M Luxos U.

apparently the dosun has a screw:










which can potentially allow you to use your own mount with it, and simply use that screw to screw it to your mount. i think that's a good option to have. with a Philips though that will not work because it is too heavy for ANY mount to hold it.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

androgen said:


> *that magicshine of yours* looks like it would be somewhere in the 2nd category, but the problem is in the 2nd category there are lights with measured outputs in the 1,500 to 3,000 range, whereas 600 magicshine lumens is probably about 400 real world Lumens which is not much more than 300 real world lumens of SafeRide and SafeRide has much more aggressive beam shaping.
> 
> as compared to the dosun, one of the main reasons i'm looking at it is the external battery, which this magicshine doesn't have.


"That magicshine of yours" - what's that supposed to mean? I have no personal connection with magicshine. I was just posting something new that I thought might help you. I don't know why I bothered

You need to get of your high horse.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but those cheap Chinese light have ushered in a golden age of night riding. You no longer have to buy hundreds of dollars of lights just to go for a mtb ride on rough singletrack. You can buy 2 lights for $50 - $100 and have more light and longer lasting light than we could have ever dreamed of back in the halogen days. That's what half of the guys on the forum rode with and it was wicked fun. Not being able to see everything was half the fun and trying to interpret all the incoming visual information made you a better rider.

You put two $400 1700 lumen lights on your helmet and you still don't think it's enough. Your categories are complete nonsense.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

varider said:


> "That magicshine of yours" - what's that supposed to mean? I have no personal connection with magicshine. I was just posting something new that I thought might help you. I don't know why I bothered
> 
> You need to get of your high horse.
> 
> ...


thank you for that valuable insight lol.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

well i got an email from the store saying it has shipped ! they gave me some kind of weird tracking system from taiwan but through it was able to get to USPS which shows the status as "Origin Post is Preparing Shipment" 

nice !

a ship takes about 11-14 days from taiwan, customs take up to 5 days or so, which in my book adds up to 3 weeks, and if the ship is to West coast it may add another week for it to get to the East coast by truck. yet people ( i googled this ) say packages take from 2 days to 2 weeks to get to taiwan depending on shipment method. it doesn't make a lot of sense to me but time will tell.

i have once ordered something from the UK via Fedex, but i don't think i even ordered from Asia and i don't know what shipping company they used.

well, technically when i pre-ordered my iPad back in the day it was shipped to me directly from China, so perhaps i did order something from Asia but i don't know what shipping Apple used. it wasn't more than 2 weeks though in case of the iPad.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Oh wow the tracking says it has gone through JFK airport, so they actually shipped it by air. JFK Airport is just 15 miles from here. USPS tracking now says "Processed Through Sort Facility" ...

well well well ... 

you know it's a bit weird it's the 20th and it already "Processed Through Sort Facility" at New York, NY on the 18th so logically it should have been delivered by now, but so far there is not even a delivery estimate.

curious ...


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

well it is here !










all in all from the date of the order it took 2 weeks to get to me in NYC from Taiwan.

i ordered from this page:

Dosun D400 lithium rechargeable front light

i will do an unboxing video later. first i need to eat


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I don't think anyone needs an unboxing video. A couple of beamshots would be nice though.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

varider said:


> I don't think anyone needs an unboxing video. A couple of beamshots would be nice though.


i guess that's why there are millions of unboxing videos on youtube - because nobody needs them.

i'm not sure where you got the idea that i make my videos personally for you but i'm afraid that is not the case 

i have yet to do a video that people don't watch ...


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

okay ...










the unboxing video is up:






i haven't actually tried the light yet because the battery is still charging ... the tiny AC adapter gets very hot !


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

androgen said:


> okay ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Gharddog03 said:


> Very nice.


thanks. i just tried the light in my room - no surprises - it performs as i expected based on my research. i compared it side by side with Philips SafeRide - they put out approximately equal lumens.

but SafeRide puts more lumens closer to the cutoff whereas Dosun puts more lumens towards the center of the beam, rather than next to the cutoff.

the dosun color temperature is cooler than philips, and it has some green hue in parts of the pattern whereas the philips has soft white all around. the Dosun appears to have more artifacts up close than the SafeRide, but it also has more light overall up close.

this is just based on testing it in my room. i have a cold now, so i don't know when i will be able to test it on the bike. i would need to actually ride with it to be able to make a more meaningful comparison with the SafeRide.

so far though it seems they are both equally bright, but SafeRide beam is better shaped and, has less artifacts and much more even color. on the other hand the Dosun lighthead weighs 1/3 as much and battery has 2X the run time ( in theory ).

build quality is equally good on both lights i would say.

the remote switch appears to work well.

the cable plug doesn't seem to be very good. i have serious doubts about its water resistance. it doesn't disconnect with any kind of pneumatic pop that good plugs like Dinotte or Light & Motion have. instead it is sort of mushy - kinda like a NiteRider plug. the effort to connect and disconnect the plug is reasonable - not too much or too little.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

androgen said:


> thanks. i just tried the light in my room - no surprises - it performs as i expected based on my research. i compared it side by side with Philips SafeRide - they put out approximately equal lumens.
> 
> but SafeRide puts more lumens closer to the cutoff whereas Dosun puts more lumens towards the center of the beam, rather than next to the cutoff.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the review.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

OK it is overcharging the battery. The manual said when charged the light will switch from red to green but it never did. While charging the AC adapter was very hot, and full charge according to manual is 6 hours - i waited at least that long and tried the AC adapter and it was cold. I then tested the AC adapter and it was still putting out voltage, and the light on battery was still red. In other words it charged the battery to full, but the charger didn't cut off.

I then tested the voltage on the battery and while i don't trust the accuracy of my cheap digital multimeter it tested 0.28V higher than a freshly charged Dinotte battery. my tester read 8.55V on Dosun versus 8.27V on Dinotte however as i said it may not be accurate. the same tester read 4.18V on a freshly charged orbtronic 18650 which was charged by NiteCore charger a few days ago, it also read 1.4V on freshly charged eneloop charged by a Powerex charger.

so the voltage is on the high side, but the biggest giveaway to me that it overcharges is that the AC adapter went cold, in other words the output current dropped, but yet the light on the battery charger circuit remained red - never switched to green. and it was plugged in for a long time - i didn't note the time but i'm pretty sure it was more than 6 hours.

i think at some point down the line when this battery fails i will need to modify this light to accept magicshine batteries. thankfully 2 cell batteries are very common. the AC adapter read 9.3V by the way, but it does not directly connect to battery - it goes through the charging circuit in the battery housing as my unboxing video explains.

i used this cheap multimeter ( i believe it was $6 from Amazon, and i got like 3 of them ):










for the time being i will probably just use a combination of timer and multimeter to judge when to finish charging the battery. or i may simply feel the AC adapter and when it goes cold unplug it.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

i tested the beam in the hallway and it definitely puts more light in the first 2 - 3 meters than SafeRide by a large margin. it lights up the front wheel pretty bright as well. it pretty much covers straight from the front wheel - there isn't any gap to speak of in its coverage. i couldn't test the throw in the hallway - i know it will be less than SafeRide but the bigger question is whether there will be "enough" of it.

not going to ride with both lights because the Philips will probably obstruct the Dosun beam, but just to give you a size reference:










the mount is much more flimsy than the Philips mount, but also it only needs to support 1/3 the weight. i used all the rubber spacers but one on my thin bar. the opening in the mount itself seems wider than on the Philips - i think it should be able to handle any oversize diameter bar.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

crap ! what a ripoff ! i was looking forward to ordering a second D400 but i just went outside to test it and i have already achieved perfection. getting a 2nd one would only make it worse. the two Seca 1700 on the helmet can barely keep up with one as it is.

to test the assumption that indeed a 2nd one would make it worse i put both Seca on half power, and then tested the Dosun on full power and half power and i had best results with Dosun on half power.

why ?

because the Seca lights the far-field and Dosun lights the nearfield and it is when you combine then in a certain ratio when you get even lighting from near to far field. and that ratio is when both Seca 1700 on helmet and a single Dosun D400 on bar are on high, or when all 3 lights are on medium, but if Secas are on medium and Dosun is on High it overpowers them and the near-field is brighter than far field, which is no good.

on the other hand with Secas alone the near field is too dark. if the Seca was on the bar the near field would be bright enough, but when it is on helmet the near field is too dark. but the Dosun fills up the near field perfectly.

Dosun by itself is excellent for riding at lower speed. It is very bright and quite even, and the beam is just wide enough but not too wide. What it does lack however is throw, so don't expect to be doing 30 mph with the Dosun by itself. the Dosun should be perfect for 10 mph or so by itself, or for any speed combined with a spot helmet light.

i'm going to dress a little warmer and test it at a bit higher speed. i only tested them at about 10 mph so far to avoid freezing myself with the wind.

but it's pretty much already obvious - the Dosun will replace the SafeRide on my bike. i will either sell the SafeRide or keep it as backup in case Dosun fails. i will also NOT be getting a second Dosun ( which was my original plan ) simply because one does everything i need from it - it is both bright and wide enough by itself.

combined with the Secas on helmet the Dosun simply looks a lot better than SafeRide. the SafeRide didn't fill in the nearfield the way Dosun does, and in the far-field the SafeRide was too "pointy" and i could see myself doing slight adjustments with the front wheel as i ride because the narrow beam would shift left and right. the Dosun beam is 3 times as wide in the far field ( but less bright ) so as i turn the front wheel it isn't as distracting as with Philips. the Dosun simply works much better with the helmet mounted Secas than Philips does.

am i saying Dosun is better than SafeRide ? no i'm not saying that. it's just better FOR ME.

of course i will eventually do a video of some sort on this once i figure out what kind of video i want to do.

also what's incredible the dosun DOES NOT EVEN GET WARM running on high ! the SafeRide used to get hot ! the Dosun has the same output as the SafeRide but it barely rises above room temperature running continuously on high and i wansn't even going more than 10 mph. this seems to suggest that Dosun is more efficient. i was wondering how can they get 5.5 hour claimed run time on high which is almost 3 times the run time of SafeRide when it only has about 80% more watt-hours in the battery. but considering how cool it runs i think it is very possible that the run time is indeed 5.5 hours.

also i didn't have the mount fully tightened but there was no hint of chatter or sag, whereas the saferide bounces all over the place and sags constantly even when fully tightened.

i will most likely sell the SafeRide on Amazon ... if anybody is interested let me know i will link you to the posting once it's for sale.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

i was really missing that brightness straight from the front wheel that i used to have with NiteRider Pro 3600 and with the D400 i now again have it. my setup finally feels as bright as it did when i ran the NiteRider Pro 3600. 

the Secas are powerful but when helmet mounted primarily provide throw, not near-field brightness. 3600 helmet Seca lumens simply never felt as bright as 3600 NR Pro bar lumens did, but now with the Dosun filling in the near-field it finally feels just as bright. 

i had NiteRider Pro 3600 bar mounted and it provided both throw and near field. I'm sure the Seca would also provide both if it was mounted on the bar, but then it would blind everybody just as NiteRider did. the point of helmet mounting is i can turn my head and take the beam out of a driver's face if i'm blinding him. 

Now i finally have a setup ( if Dosun doesn't crap out ) where i again have that kind of front wheel to 30 meters away brightness that i had with NiteRider Pro but i can get 95% of the light out of a driver's eyes simply by turning my head, whereas the NR Pro 3600 simply blinded everybody.

the SafeRide by comparison doesn't really have the near-field brightness that Dosun has - not even close. the SafeRide pretty much throws almost the same as the Seca on the helmet which makes it sort of redundnat. the SafeRide would probably be a better stand-alone light than Dosun, but the Dosun makes a better complimentary bar light to a good helmet light.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

ok i just did a short ~15 minute ride about 15-20 mph and i stand by my verdict. this is a great little bar light to compliment a powerful helmet light. with 3600 lumens on the helmet toggling this ~300 lumen light on and off makes a BIG difference in brightness ! it doubles the near-field brightness in fact, and it's effect is still noticeable over the Secas up to about 10 meters. beyond 10 meters it is all Seca. 

subjectively it just FEELS a lot more sunny with this light than without it, even though in terms of lumens it only adds 10% to my setup. with only Seca on the helmet the pavement is well lit where i point the Seca, but with the Seca and Dosun it is well lit from the front wheel to where i point the Seca. so with Seca alone it feels like i am riding through a TUNNEL of light, but with Seca + Dosun it feels more like i have a personal UFO following overhead and it lights the whole area around me instead of just a tunnel ahead of me.

the only time i actually noticed the green hue was when i came through an area with some stench from garbage bags and my brain associated the green color with the stench and i noticed the green hue at that moment, but as soon as i was out in the fresh air it just looked like light.

i wouldn't use this as your only light unless you ride very slow, because it does tend to put most of the light close up. but for a slow commuter this would be a great light all by itself without any helmet help.

i wouldn't use it on a trail because it does have a fairly pronounced cutoff which would be distracting if you couldn't level with with the horizon as you can on a road.

oh, and when i was riding at 15-20 mph the D400 stayed ice cold altogether.


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## CHnuschti (Nov 12, 2008)

androgen said:


> with 3600 lumens on the helmet toggling this ~300 lumen light on and off makes a BIG difference in brightness !


I'm sure physics will tell something completely else, but subjectivity is everyone's own privilege!
But if androgen is happy with his new light, then I am also. I admit something I envy sometimes is his enthusiasm he is able to develop.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

CHnuschti said:


> I'm sure physics will tell something completely else, but subjectivity is everyone's own privilege!


lumens don't measure how bright something looks - they measure light output. lux is the measure of brightness and it strongly depends on distance. because Dosun puts more of its lumens up close it looks brighter than the Lumens suggest. seca projects lumens further so it looks dimmer, despite having a lot of lumens.

trust me - i have it all figured out


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

You're using two Secas on the road? On high? In the city?


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

varider said:


> You're using two Secas on the road? On high? In the city?


yes, and i recently picked up an extra 6 cell battery and an extra 1.5 amp charger so i can run them on high 100% of the time.

it's nice. seeing and being seen.

i need to do a video again. i didn't want to do a video on just adding a 2nd seca because that wasn't enough of a change IMO to warrant a new video, but now that i swapped SafeRide for Dosun i have legitimate reason to do it.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Androgen, can you post a shot of your helmet with the 2 se as mounted? I want to see how "large" they appear. Also a pic if you get a chance of the do sun next to the seca head for a size comparo will be helpful as well. 

Thanks and thumbs up for finding a combo that works for you. 

Did you ever try a seca on the bars, angled down a little to reduce blinding and seca on helmet? I don't recall seeing any talk about that.... You only mentioned having them both on helmet and speculated (it seemed above) on the beam pattern in the above post..

And at ~300 lumens, that is the dosun max output? Have you done any runtime tests on it yet? Runtime on high was what?


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

cue003 said:


> Androgen, can you post a shot of your helmet with the 2 se as mounted? I want to see how "large" they appear.


i already did this here:

helmety experiment !



cue003 said:


> Also a pic if you get a chance of the do sun next to the seca head for a size comparo will be helpful as well.


sure, find those pics in the next post ...



cue003 said:


> Did you ever try a seca on the bars, angled down a little to reduce blinding and seca on helmet?


no i never tried seca on the bar. i see no point in that. but member canuck_tacoma right here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=548118

uses a Seca 1500 on his bar. ( with a Stella 500 on helmet ). maybe you can ask him.



cue003 said:


> I don't recall seeing any talk about that.... You only mentioned having them both on helmet and speculated (it seemed above) on the beam pattern in the above post..


it wasn't speculation. when i first received the Seca i tested it by holding it in my hand - neither helmet nor bar mounted - and i tried it at various heights this way. when i held it at bar height it provided even illumination everywhere, but when i raised it to helmet height the area immediately in front of me got darker and only the area where the light was pointed to was bright.



cue003 said:


> And at ~300 lumens, that is the dosun max output? Have you done any runtime tests on it yet? Runtime on high was what?


no, i probably won't do any tests - too lazy. it's rated at 400 lumens, but i compared it side by side with SafeRide both lights aimed directly at a white wall and the total output seems identical. i have heard figures of 320 and 425 lumens for the SafeRide but if we want to be conservative let's say 300 and Dosun is the same so also 300. that's how i arrived at 300 figure, but the manufacturer rating is 400 lumnes for D400 and 600 lumens for D600.

manufacturer rated run time is 5.5 hours on high, 9 hours on medium and 16.5 hours on low.

based on physical size of battery and the cold operation of the light i don't doubt that run time is good when battery is fresh. the real concern IMO is how quickly will the battery be destroyed by the improperly calibrated charger that overcharges and doesn't shut off.

the english website has the info:

DOSUn SOLAR TECHNOLOGY CO.,LTD


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

cue003 said:


> Also a pic if you get a chance of the do sun next to the seca head for a size comparo will be helpful as well.


sorry for the blurry pics, hard to hold helmet in one hand and phone in the other. i held the lights equidistant from the camera for a fair size comparison.

by the way i don't think it is a coincidence that they look similar despite being totally different. Dosun makes another light that looks like Light & Motion Stella but is actually a tail light. i think Dosun "borrows" ideas from Light & Motion - this was actually a factor in my decision to get one. because most Chinese lights copy Lupine, so it is nice to see a company finally copy Light & Motion 

and of course with the USB slot for charging iPhones on the side they copied Busch & Muller. considering that L&M and B&M are my two favorite companies i was really excited that Dosun copies both of them, instead of copying Lupine like everybody else, because as you probably know i don't think Lupine is all that.


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## cue003 (May 6, 2011)

Thanks for the pics and the link to the other thread.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

battery mount is poorly designed. there is nothing actually holding the battery to the strap - in other words the strap doesn't go through a groove in the battery, it simply wraps around. this frankly is unacceptable because for example my top tube is thicker in the front than back so as the battery moves the strap loosens and then it can fall out completely because nothing is actually holding it.

i almost lost the battery on the ride today - when i got home i noticed that the battery was barely hanging in place. 

by comparison a dinotte battery for example will not fall off even if the strap is very loose.

from now on i will try to pay more attention to battery mounting mechanism when researching lights ...

so that's 3 faults i found so far with the Dosun:

1 - the charger doesn't shut off, overcharges battery

2 - the battery mounting system is completely unreliable

3 - the cable plug quality is questionable

so Dosun is obviously no Light & Motion. we'll see how long the battery lasts with that crappy charger. my other light from a questionable company - the rear spoke lights - just failed today through the exact same mechanism - improper battery charging ...

so far the Dosun is a mixed bag. i like the beam, the small sexy light head, the remote switch and overall build and finish quality. but i think the product is not ready for prime time despite being a 2nd generation of a light introduced in 2009 ! ! ! maybe they will get it right by 3rd generation, but by then Busch & Muller will have a version most likely.

i will be keeping my eye on Busch & Muller. i hope they release a light in a configuration similar to this Dosun, but with a good charger, battery mount and plug. although B&M is not perfect either.

eh ...


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## NiteBiker (Sep 29, 2011)

*PSR Gen2 vs Gen1*

Hi HakanC,

Do you see any changes in the Gen 2 light compared to Gen 1. I read somewhere that the color has been changed from "Crystal White" to a warmer shade (I would like this). Any change in beam pattern? Any other differences? You've already mentioned Gen 2 does not have the annoying timer forcing you to low mode after 70mins.

Thanks,


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## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

NiteBiker said:


> Hi HakanC,
> 
> Do you see any changes in the Gen 2 light compared to Gen 1. I read somewhere that the color has been changed from "Crystal White" to a warmer shade (I would like this).


Thats true, the LEDs are warmer shade in the Gen 2 light



> Any change in beam pattern?


Not AFAIK.
If there is, they are small.



> Any other differences? You've already mentioned Gen 2 does not have the annoying timer forcing you to low mode after 70mins.


The battery status LEDs are changed from three blue, with annoying intensity, to a glowing ring around the button that changes from gren to orange to red.

Thats about it.

One more thing, the batteries are now 2600mAh,
but I did a IEC-test of them and the quality are not very high.
Three batteries were OK @2600 mAh (plus/minus 50 mAh)
But one was only 2450mAh!

/Håkan
SWEDEN


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

HakanC said:


> The battery status LEDs are changed from three blue, with annoying intensity, to a glowing ring around the button that changes from gren to orange to red.


screw Philips. that was my favorite feature of the light - the three blue indicators - almost makes you feel like you own Lupine 

they just can't do anything right. poor chaps.

by the way the Dosun also has that MagicShine style battery indicator. i rode for 3 hours and it was still blue at the end of the ride. i have lowered the output a few times to make my light look less expensive than it is in a few parts of the ride, but i would say it was probably on high for 2.5 hours. the Philips would have surely been dead by the end of the ride at that rate. my Philips actually went dead before i even rode it for the first time, just from testing it - i was shocked, because i charged it. the Philips is terrible junk - it's a 300 lumen light that gets as hot as an average 1000 lumen light in operation. the Philips is basically strictly for commuting - useless for training - simply doesn't have the battery life ( unless you modify it ).

if any of you wants to give me $100 for the Philips i will put it up on Amazon. mine is 1st gen, silver color. can only ship within continental US though.


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

here is a video i made that ( among other lights ) demonstrates the Dosun D400.

the Dosun is at:

by itself: 1 min 35 sec
with helmet lights: 20 min 54 sec
with all other lights: 26 min 00 sec


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## Speedy-DK (Oct 28, 2014)

Hi androgen - first thanks for all your interesting postings
Question - are you still running the Dosun D400 light - if yes, are you happy with the light? I consider buying either the D600 or the Roxim M6. // Peter, Denmark


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## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Speedy-DK said:


> Hi androgen - first thanks for all your interesting postings
> Question - are you still running the Dosun D400 light - if yes, are you happy with the light? I consider buying either the D600 or the Roxim M6. // Peter, Denmark


yes i am still using it. i have several issues with it:

1 - it has developed a problem where if you don't charge it for a while the battery runs down to empty. this doesn't happen with any of my other lights, which are all from 1st world country companies ( i don't own any Chinese lights ). however after re-charging it works again.

so i charge it right before riding, and is the only light for which i do so - all other lights i can just pick up a battery that was charged a month ago and use it, but with Dosun it has to be charged recently. i think this may be because the battery has charger electronics integrated into it which probably drain it overtime.

2 - at first i thought the charger is broken because it wouldn't show green light at the end of charge even after the AC adapter went cold ( stopped charging ) however i later realized that if you leave it on the charger long enough eventually the light will go green - but this happens after about 12 hours of charging ! ! ! the AC adapter is hot for the first few hours then it goes cold but apparently it continues to trickle charge for a couple more hours.

3 - the port for the AC adapter has a rubber flap which is so hard to close that i given up and ride without closing it. this is obviously not good if you get hit by rain. you CAN close it but it's just very hard.

4 - the mount is not very good - it sags overtime so you have to readjust it from time to time and it is hard to turn the knob by hand.

so this light is definitely not top level in terms of design but it does work and it has good output and useful beam pattern. the light head itself is very well made - 5 stars. the mount is so-so - 3 stars. the battery / charger i give 2 stars - it has the capacity to run the light for a long time, but it takes a long time to charge and drains by itself in storage.

fortunately as this is a regular 7 volt system you should be able to replace the battery with something of your own choice.

would i recommend this light ? i would neither recommend for or against it. it is neither a good nor bad light.

myself - i would not buy it again but that's just because in USA i can legally run a light without beam cutoff so i can use on the road the lights that in Germany people can only use off-road. i will not buy another STVZO style light again regardless of brand or technology used. regular off-road lights are cheaper and more effective if you can legally use them.

before the Dosun i used Philips SafeRide ( which i still own ) and i prefer the Dosun to the Philips, but i prefer non-STVZO lights like Lupine or Light & Motion to both of them.


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