# Motobecane VS. ?



## MonRiverRat (Feb 26, 2009)

I ride for fun and to relief stress. mostly on flat terrain. no jumping or anything that extreme. i guess i would consider it XC.
im looking at the motobecane 700ds. my budget is $600. Im 6'2" 215lbs. any advice on this model or suggestions for other model would be greatly appreciated.


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## EnglishT (Apr 9, 2008)

Advice?
*Dont buy a fullsuspension bike with that amount of money.*

Despite what certain people will try to have you believe, full suspension below around 1000-1500 is almost always compromised.

To be honest, this has been gone over many times - the search function will find you what you want (in regards to both this bike, and other similar lowlevel outdated designs).
You might also want to look for information on bikesdirect's owner (theres plenty on these boards on that front too) as his business style and style of posting on these boards does not agree with alot of people. That may or may not be an issue for you, but its best to know what you (may) be dealing with.


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## MonRiverRat (Feb 26, 2009)

Good advice... but what brand would be good at $600? HT I assume now based on your suggestion. It would have to be online because there is nothing local for me.


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## Swthrtsuzy (Sep 1, 2008)

If you need to order online, why don't you try some place like performancebike.com, nashbar or even jensonusa? They carry house brands, but also carry other brands like GT and Iron Horse, jenson even carries Surly frames.


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## MtbSupply (Nov 2, 2008)

get the 700HT not DS, or the Fantom 29er, same price but with bigger wheels  lol. 

~Keep the rubber side Down.


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## Thinkly (Apr 9, 2007)

You don't need a Full Suspension bike for the riding you describe. Get a good hardtail and go ride. That thing will just be a bouncy, bouncy boing, boing waste of $. I would also second the 700HT.


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## jdr6031 (Oct 12, 2008)

I am no expert by any means, but i have ridden one of the 600$ DS and currently own the motobecane fantom trail HT. I would pick my HT any day over one of the cheaper DS in that range. I agree with what the others have said. A decent hardtail , in my opinion, would be a better ride and better quality bike for that price range. A good HT should be able to take whatever you can throw at it in the riding conditions you described.


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## mas22386 (Feb 28, 2009)

I have had my 700 DS for a year now and i have upgraded a few things on it and i love it. its great for the price and i am 5,9 240.


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## birdog (Feb 19, 2009)

You can get a C'dale F7 for $600 and a F5 for $700ish. They both are nice bikes. You may want to give them a look. Good Luck!


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## Theologic Bear (Feb 13, 2009)

If you have a long torso, or if you like a more aggressive riding geometry, a Gary Fisher fits the bill. You could probably find an '08 Tassajara or Piranha for around that money. Of course, you can't go wrong with the Rockhopper.

Edit: Oh yeah, no LBS for you. Hmm...


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## EnglishT (Apr 9, 2008)

Note: 
It seems we often get people with only a couple (1-10) posts who endorse certain lowend bikesdirect bikes, or ost threads asking about them.

Im not saying that there arent some genuine ones there, but it seems that very often when a thread like this comes along, you get a poster with almost no posts saying that its good, but usually with almost nothing to back it up.


To be totally honest, the 700DS is a poor design - its very basic and outdates.
BD's "Fantom ds" is a better design (if well implemented) which you see used by plenty of the more popular manufacturers.



Yes, the moto hardtails seem to be generally decently specced (and decent parts for your money), but you can probably find better deals by scouring closeout deals.


At the end of the day, buying new over the internet (having never ridden) is a very risky business, even more so if youre a relative beginner with very little idea of what rough figures you need to get a perfect fit.


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## mas22386 (Feb 28, 2009)

and every once in a while you get some one that thinks they are better then other people because they have a nicer bike or more experience on the comp then other spend more time on the trails and less trying to down grade people


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## basilsnow (Feb 22, 2009)

The newest Mountain Bike Action magazine(april 09) reviews a cannondale F5 Priced @$769. Made in the U.S.A. Looks to be nice and easily upgradable later on.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Yeah!*



mas22386 said:


> and every once in a while you get some one that thinks they are better then other people because they have a nicer bike or more experience on the comp then other spend more time on the trails and less trying to down grade people


But that's not the case here. Unless you can define English T's bike. Or mine, for that matter.

It has nothing to do with having a nicer bike and having more experience on a computer. It has everything to do with riding a mountain bike.

Because someone has been riding for a couple years and thinks Motobecane is the "best" bike is a significantly different than people who offer advice here that have been riding for decades and offer their advice based on what they've experienced, not on what biek they ride.


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## EnglishT (Apr 9, 2008)

My point (if you bothered to read it) was not pointing the finger at you at all mas~...

What I said was that theres a worryingly high number of posters turning up from nowhere and recommending motobecanes. 
There have been so many threads in which people with very few posts recommend them, some may be genuine, but in most cases it appears something fishy is going on.

As to the comment relating to trail time - just because I spend a decent amount of time on the computer doesnt mean im not riding alot.
Fwiw, I ride 2-3 days a week on average, sometimes even 5 or 6 in any given week. Most rides I'll cover 10 miles of road (to and from the local hill) and a good couple of hours on the hill itself.
Being currently unemployed gives me alot of time to burn (when not looking for work), which is taken up mostly by riding and the net.


On the issue in hand - yes, there may be worse bikes than your 700DS, but there are far better ones too, especially where suspension design is concerned.
The rear sus design on that frame went out of date years back, its now found pretty much only on really really low end fullsus frames. It might (and probably does) work better than most frames sharing the same system, but you cant polish a turd - it will still have faults inherent in the design, and riding it side to side with something like a well implemented FSR, ICT, DW, VPP, Maestro etc, you would notice a huge difference.




Back to adressing OP...

If you want a bike for this kind of money thats going to be suitable for general leisure riding (but will be suitable for moving yourself on later if you wish) then a hardtail is the right way to go.

I presume you specified fullsus for comfort reasons?
If thats the case, you might want to look into steel frames - contrary to common belief, steel isnt a bad material at all. Yes, its normally a bit heavier than Alu for a given pricepoint, but it's more compliant and will feel less harsh.


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## otis24 (Apr 1, 2004)

*Yes, you can polish a turd*



EnglishT said:


> but you cant polish a turd -


Mythbusters would disagree:

Polished Turd


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

EnglishT said:


> What I said was that theres a worryingly high number of posters turning up from nowhere and recommending motobecanes.
> There have been so many threads in which people with very few posts recommend them, some may be genuine, but in most cases it appears something fishy is going on.


Get your tin hat off. Motos are good bikes for a good price, especailly hardtails. I just had a nice beginner race on my Fly Ti, and while my knee gave out, bike was excellent. I would not recommend their cheapest models, not as much savings, and for the small savings you will benefit from the service of a local shop - but for an upper end model, such as Fly Ti, value was excellent and quality of the frame quite good.



EnglishT said:


> it will still have faults inherent in the design, and riding it side to side with something like a well implemented FSR, ICT, DW, VPP, Maestro etc, you would notice a huge difference.


Baloney. You will notice a difference in level of the fork and of the rear shock ten times before the minute differences in the linkage design.

Plenty of excellent bikes (Yeti, 05-08 Turner, Ventana, Kona) etc. have pretty much the same suspension design as Motos, which is rather common, and there is not only a distinc lack of "huge" difference, but those bike often perform quite better then FSR/ICT/DW/VPP designs.

At this price level getting a good fork for your money is much more important.


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## EnglishT (Apr 9, 2008)

Curmy said:


> Get your tin hat off. Motos are good bikes for a good price, especailly hardtails. I just had a nice beginner race on my Fly Ti, and while my knee gave out, bike was excellent. I would not recommend their cheapest models, not as much savings, and a true begineer will benefit from the service of a local shop - but for an upper end model, such as my titanium frame, value was excellent and quality of the frame quite good.


Sorry buddy but you didnt read what I wrote, so your slating is rather baseless.
To begin with, we're talking about lowend models, which you "would not recommend" the same as I wouldn't.
The comment regarding beginners benefitting from having shop assistance is also rather pointless in this case - because the OP doesnt have a shop available, although in most cases, yes, its a good point.

I didnt say motos in general are bad - infact if you read posts here (and in other threads) I do acknowledge that the hardtails seem to offer decent specs for the money.
I didnt even say that all their suspension rigs are poor either - if its properly implemented, their "fantom ds" should be pretty decent.
But the bike in question (the 700DS, along with their others which share the frame) is based on an outdated frame design and is something I would advise anyone to avoid at all costs.

Dont forget that frame quality, geometry, design and (for fs bikes) suspension design, aswell as component specs are all part of value for money - as is customer service.

As Ive said here (and elsewhere), Moto's tend to have good component specs (with just a few eyebrow raisers, such as use of road cassettes on some builds for example), from what I've seen of the hardtails they seem well built and geometry figures are sensible.
However, the 700DS (which is what was mentioned to begin with in this thread) has such a poor, outdated suspension setup, that renders it (in my honest opinion) a bad purchase, and most certainly not one to be recommended.



Curmy said:


> Plenty of excellent bikes (Yeti, 05-08 Turner, Ventana, Kona) etc. have pretty much the same suspension design as Motos, which is rather common, and there is not only a distinc lack of "huge" difference, but those bike often perform quite better then FSR/ICT/DW/VPP designs.


Youre getting confused here - understandable, youre thinking of the phantom-DS series of frames.
If someone was talking the way I have been (about the 700ds) about designs like the phantom-ds (seatstay pivot 4bar), which you are thinking of, my reaction would be similar to yours.

The fantom-DS series :http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantompro_dsIX.htm 
Are fourbar designs with seatstay pivots, such as the Ventana/Kona/etc designs that you mention.
As I said earlier - if implemented properly, this can (and does) produce very good bikes.

Fwiw - the devil's in the detail. How the design is implemented (stiffness, specific pivot placement, etc) will dictate whether the bikes a winner or not. The design does not make the bike all on its own - but a poor design to begin with (see the design below) is enough to break it.

The 700DS is not - its a Yframe design, which is outdated and (even if well implemented) will perform below par.
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/700ds.htm
This kind of design performs poorly and you WILL feel it.

Although we are talking about mid-entrylevel bikes here, this design is not good enough - its obselete.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

EnglishT said:


> Sorry buddy but you didnt read what I wrote, so your slating is rather baseless.


I have read you mad ramblings, and even quoted them, about how good MB reviews are "fishy" in "most" cases. That's grade A bullcrap, just like the rest of your prolix. How about you read what I wrote instead?



EnglishT said:


> This kind of design performs poorly and you WILL feel it.


No it wont. At this price point, and not just at this price point, it all depends on fork and shock. Your FUD is baseless.


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## EnglishT (Apr 9, 2008)

Curmy said:


> I have read you mad ramblings about how good M reviews are "fishy" in "most" cases. That's grade A bullcrap, just like the rest of your prolix. How about you read what I wrote instead?


How many of these threads have you read?
A pattern emerges - in many (if not most) of them, someone with a single figure post count will pop up and say its a good bike, but almost nothing about it. These are not "good" reviews, as they contain almost no information at all.
I'm not the only one wondering whether something fishy is going on (as others have said the same thing before).

Please, stop getting so defensive. I didnt knock your bike at all, and I didnt say that all Moto's are bad bikes (because theyre not). 
The point being made is that the model in question here is not a good'un. Theres a world of difference between bikes like yours and the low-end FS bikes that BD sells.

Getting back on topic - care to look up the bike we're talking about? Perhaps then you'll have a clue about whats being discussed here - until that point, I dont see much point in considering your views on the particular bike (700DS) as valid, as you're clearly thinking of a different frame.
Theres a distinct difference between the bike you're talking about, and the one being discussed in this thread - most importantly, that the frame is totally different.


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## EnglishT (Apr 9, 2008)

Curmy said:


> No it wont. At this price point, and not just at this price point, it all depends on fork and shock. Your FUD is baseless.


Troll.

Frankly - if you cant tell the difference between a Y-frame (which you could find at wallyworld, albeit the 700ds is almost certainly better implemented), and a properly implemented superior design (such as those mentioned above) then sorry, youre a knowledgeless troll.

For example: a Giant Anthem and a Moto 700DS will not be even in the same league of performance whether you equip them with the same fork and shock or not.
One is a well honed system (maestro) and the other is an obselete design confined for the most part to cheap childrens frames and bikes labelled "do not use offroad".

There is no fear, uncertainty or doubt in this. 
A Yframe is an outdated, poor design. 
Fact.


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## mstguide (Oct 20, 2008)

*Bad moto good moto*

If you don't have a shop near you, to help you with your first bike the internet offers some good deals. If you don't have a lot of money (like myself) then you have to go with the best price. Hard tail are good if you don't have any back problems. Base on what I read in your comment a hard tail is all you need. 
I have and ride with a Moto 400 ds. I ride with guys that have some really expensive bikes like jamis and Gary Fisher. 
For my money I love my moto. And at times I even lead the pack.

Some don't like moto and they will tell not to buy them but I happen to know that one of those really expensive Gary Fisher bikes with oversize front hub and downhill set up, frame broke yeap it broke. 
For the riding you want to do start out with a basic model if you have money for a more expensive go for it.

Don't pick on moto because they are cheap expensive ones brake too.

No, I do not work with Moto or bikes direct, but I do work and ride as much as my schedule allows me.


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## mas22386 (Feb 28, 2009)

I am glad you think that 10 miles a couple times a week is good i ride 12 back and forth to work and i live in Montana were its like below freezing when i leave in the morning I also ride in the hills and on local trails and i was just wanted to let you know the reason i do not have many post is because i just joined and what makes the frame so bad its light and it can take just about anything i think your just a stuck up rider that has to much time on your hands


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## fireflock (Aug 6, 2008)

At your height, I'd take a serious look at one of the hardtail 29ers. You should at least consider an upgrade to the Tora fork over the Dart, but that will stretch your budget.

Don't worry about the bashers. Most of them don't remember what it's like to buy a beginner bike with a budget. Just turn that budget into a bike and ride. The rest will come.


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## mas22386 (Feb 28, 2009)

yea i did up grade to a recon 351 and a monarch 4.2 i put some pics on you should look at them


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## EnglishT (Apr 9, 2008)

mas22386 said:


> I am glad you think that 10 miles a couple times a week is good i ride 12 back and forth to work and i live in Montana were its like below freezing when i leave in the morning I also ride in the hills and on local trails and i was just wanted to let you know the reason i do not have many post is because i just joined and what makes the frame so bad its light and it can take just about anything i think your just a stuck up rider that has to much time on your hands


I apologise for the implication - when your post here was first made, it was your only post. I instantly jumped to (the wrong) conclusions, based on what often happens on threads such as this one.

The reason I wouldnt recommend it, is because of that rear suspension design.

Too much time on my hands? Yes, definately (and im not happy about it, believe me), but I wouldnt call myself stuck up. In a way, suggesting that what I do is nothing (and fwiw - 10 miles is the road trip there and back, I'll normally spend several hours up on the hill itself), is a rather stuckup opinion no?
Just because you dont agree with my opinions doesnt mean they are wrong or stuck-up.

From my personal experiences, frames with that design simply do not stack up against better designs. 
Think of it this way - if there was nothing wrong it, then wonder why noone makes a high end bike with that design anymore, or why (for example) mike of BD felt the need to use a different design for his higher end fullsus bikes. In this case, it isnt just about marketing.

I hope you enjoy yourself out there - and again, Im sorry for instantly categorising you (incorrectly).


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## Rufudufus (Apr 27, 2004)

EnglishT said:


> The 700DS is not - its a Yframe design, which is outdated and (even if well implemented) will perform below par..


That suspension is actually known as a Unified Rear Triangle I owned a Trek Y-bike with URT, and it was fun but there's a reason that design is now used only on their cheapest FS bikes. Not saying it sucks, but it's a 14-year-old design and suspension has come a long way since then. Don't take my word for it, google "URT pedal bob"

EDIT: OK, it's not a URT. Shoot me.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Rufudufus said:


> Don't take my word for it, google "URT pedal bob"


GT i-drive is pretty much URT, and it works fine.

For that amount of travel and that much money and that level of components this is useless nitpicking.


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## ndanielson (Feb 6, 2009)

Do not buy an F/S for 600$ obvious....

Check Craigslist... if its not a serious hobby, then buy something used...
could maybe piece an F/S together for about 800$ using ebay and the net... 
ebay and CL have their problems though..

All that aside... I do not like the motobecane 700 at all.. I weigh 200 lbs myself... sounds crazy, but if you go to your local LBS, or even Dick's... they have decent DB's for under 600$... again if this isn't a serious hobby get something nice, but don't overdo it.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Advice...*



Curmy said:


> GT i-drive is pretty much URT, and it works fine.
> 
> For that amount of travel and that much money and that level of components this is useless nitpicking.


You should conceed that you didn't comprehend English T's original post. You're either not understanding or intentionally ignoring the point he was making:

1. There is a disportionate number of Motobecane fanboys who have little riding experience, have no credibility here and pronounce Motobecanes as "great" bikes with little (if any) credible reasons why the bike they ride (many times, their first real mountain bike) is "great" or better than other choices.

GT i-drive "is pretty much URT"? Sure, if you take away the "i-drive" part of the bike. But then it's not an i-drive. It then becomes a bike with a suspect suspension.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

ndanielson said:


> Do not buy an F/S for 600$ obvious....


That is true. Under $1000 you can find a very good hardtail which will be much more reliable, and with some decent fork.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Ken in KC said:


> You should conceed that you didn't comprehend English T's original post. You're either not understanding or intentionally ignoring the point he was making:


 You should conceed that you have not got a clue.



Ken in KC said:


> 1. There is a disportionate number of Motobecane fanboys who have little riding experience, have no credibility here and pronounce Motobecanes as "great" bikes with little (if any) credible reasons why the bike they ride (many times, their first real mountain bike) is "great" or better than other choices..


I have owned probably more then 20 different mountain bikes before getting a Fly Ti, most of them high end, and Fly Ti is a nice bike and it was a great deal. Where do you get your statistics from? From where sun does not shine? Just like your buddy English you are just spreading FUD with no basis for that whtsoever. "Fanboys"? Up yours, douche.


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## sportsaddict99 (Mar 2, 2008)

i got my motobecane fantom comp last week and so far its exceeded my expectations. everything about the process was great and i highly recommend it. look on the moto forum for my ordering the bike


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Wow...*



Curmy said:


> You should conceed that you have not got a clue.
> 
> I have owned probably more then 20 different mountain bikes before getting a Fly Ti, most of them high end, and Fly Ti is a nice bike and it was a great deal. Where do you get your statistics from? From where sun does not shine? Just like your buddy English you are just spreading FUD with no basis for that whtsoever. "Fanboys"? Up yours, douche.


I'm glad that you like your bike. I'm glad that you had a great experience in purchasing your bike. But that doesn't make English T's' observation any less relevent.

The basis for my opinion (and the statistics you asked for) come from this forum and the number of Motobecane fanboys (this is only *you* if *you* choose to take offense to it) who jump on with no history on this site and in many cases, no history with mountain biking (again, *you* get to determine if this applies to *you* or not) and rave about their great bike.

Since you seem to have some anger and self confidence issues, I'll help clarify the contents of what I just wrote: I wasn't talking about *you*, Curmy. I was talking about other people who have single digit posts who get on and talk up their awesome bike who; when you search on their posts; only talk about how awesome their bike is.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

[.]


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

EnglishT said:


> For example: a Giant Anthem and a Moto 700DS will not be even in the same league of performance whether you equip them with the same fork and shock or not.
> One is a well honed system (maestro) and the other is an obselete design confined for the most part to cheap childrens frames and bikes labelled "do not use offroad".


Except 700DS is not a URT



















Looks like a single pivot to me.



EnglishT said:


> There is no fear, uncertainty or doubt in this.
> A Yframe is an outdated, poor design.
> Fact.


How about you check you facts before you write?

Idiot.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Sweet....*



Curmy said:


> Except 700DS is not a URT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Name calling. You're awesome!

Allow me....

Looks like a single pivot to me = A Yframe is an outdated, poor design.

Don't be too upset over this. Around 8 years ago, I had a Bullit. It was an outdated, poor design. Even with new and improved, stable platform valving, my Bullit was still an outdated, poor design.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Ken in KC said:


> N
> 
> Looks like a single pivot to me = A Yframe is an outdated, poor design.


Y-frame - URT. Single pivot - not a URT, works just fine on plenty of modern bikes. Like Ventana, Kona, Yeti..

Your Bullit was a high pivot, and it still sells just fine.

You and your buddy had been bashing it as Y-frame, when it is not. I think "idiot" is an appropriate description.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*A question...*

It's hard to tell from your picture. Are there pivots (bushings or bearings) at the junction of the seat stays and the chain stays?


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## mstguide (Oct 20, 2008)

*Changes*

We all should know that the reason to change from single pivot is not that is an bad system. Marketing demands will change styles, even when they are good, consumers want something new and different.
Single pivot is not bad, there aren't many ds bikes where the rebound does not affect the chain ring and rear cog distance. Even some of the newer expensive models can not tackle that problem all the do is add a rear shock lock out. 
Most rear suspension bikes even with dual pivot still have the URT concept. Surf the web you will see it.


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## mstguide (Oct 20, 2008)

*Question*

Seal Bearings. Like those on rollerblades or skates.


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## Rufudufus (Apr 27, 2004)

Curmy said:


> Except 700DS is not a URT
> 
> Looks like a single pivot to me.


My bad, not a URT. Wikipedia on single pivot:"Its flaws, however, are that the design suffers from bob, brake jacking, and chain growth." Yeti does seem to make it work on the 575, with a $350 shock. I don't know how well Motobecane implements it on a $600 ride. But hey, it might be awesome.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Rufudufus said:


> My bad, not a URT. Wikipedia on single pivot:"Its flaws, however, are that the design suffers from bob, brake jacking, and chain growth." Yeti does seem to make it work on the 575, with a $350 shock. I don't know how well Motobecane implements it on a $600 ride. But hey, it might be awesome.


That is the reason I have started this by noting that the shock is by far more important. And it is not $350 for a manufacturer. Suspension design is fine. It is not a URT. Claiming it is somehow obsolete is ridiculous. Single pivot bikes with similar pivot placement are being made and ridden every day and they work just fine.


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## mas22386 (Feb 28, 2009)

so you guys are saying that all single pivot bikes are junk right???


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## mstguide (Oct 20, 2008)

*Wow*

What we have here is a failure to communicated.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Sort of.... but no....*



mas22386 said:


> so you guys are saying that all single pivot bikes are junk right???


The single pivot design isn't as mechanically sound as a 4-bar link. So a single pivot with a lower end shock won't function as well as a 4-bar link with a lower end shock. A single pivot with an upper end shock will and does work great.


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## mas22386 (Feb 28, 2009)

I think that this whole conversation has been taken to far look some people don't care if their bike is the best on the market or what other people think. It works for me and there are other people like it to i just ride because i like it. If that's to much for some of you to wrap your little minds around then so be it. I thought this site was a place to share info about the bike that you have not to just trash talk when some one makes statement about a bike that they own. I was mistaken so all you haters can just eat a fat d*ck


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Here's a good idea. Take your time, ask questions and get answers from reputable people on the forums, get yourself a some tools,scout out some bargains, AND BUILD YOUR OWN BIKE. Good night.  P.S.- as Tommy Heinson so eloquently said it, "you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out".


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Ken in KC said:


> The single pivot design isn't as mechanically sound as a 4-bar link. So a single pivot with a lower end shock won't function as well as a 4-bar link with a lower end shock. A single pivot with an upper end shock will and does work great.


"Isn't as mechanically sound"?. Baloney. Readers of a "Beginners corner" certainly deserve better.

There is no magic to virtual pivot or FSR/ICT suspensions, marketing drivel from manufacturers notwithstanding. While they do behave differently, depending on execution, most effects that people do notice are highly subjective.

The most noticeable drawback for single pivot, is suspension performance under rear braking. It is more noticeable on long travel bikes, can be alleviated with a floating brake, and has little to do with shock.

Modern single pivots work just fine, in particular in shorter travel applications, and no pivot arrangement will overcome a bad shock. (And yes, sub $1000 motobecanes do not get particularly good shocks, though no worse then any other FS for that price, and no FSR/DW/mambo-jumbo will help with that - hardtail will be most likely a better deal)


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Try Jamis or GT.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Ken in KC said:


> The single pivot design isn't as mechanically sound as a 4-bar link. So a single pivot with a lower end shock won't function as well as a 4-bar link with a lower end shock. A single pivot with an upper end shock will and does work great.


And you have to keep in mind that the bike retails for 600 dollars so it does not have a good shock so T's post is still correct. Also Crumy's post would be correct because a single pivot does work with a well shock according to Wiki. So he still should not buy that bike for that price unless he wants to buy an awesome shock.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

On the strength guys. Build your own bikes. Much more rewarding. :thumbsup:


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## Hellrazor666 (Oct 27, 2008)

I had low level FS and did I regret after a few months. So instead wasting money on upgrading I just bought a better better bike. My advice would be stay away from a $600 FS and go with good hard tail. If not just remember You get what you pay for


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

The issue here is price point. The 700 allows you to get into dual suspension. After a year I picked up a decent fork and rear shock off ebay, new, motion control/adj floodgate for under $340. A few clicks of the floodgate and I have zero bob, as in none, and it's super plush. I picked my bike up for around $500 so I've got a pretty modest investment for nice handling bike. Now if I had a thousand bucks to blow at once I may looking elsewhere but that's beside the point. This is a price point segment of the market and for somebody that fits in this slot, wanting a FS and wants something new, it's worth a look.


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## EnglishT (Apr 9, 2008)

Starkonian said:


> The issue here is price point. The 700 allows you to get into dual suspension. After a year I picked up a decent fork and rear shock off ebay, new, motion control/adj floodgate for under $340. A few clicks of the floodgate and I have zero bob, as in none, and it's super plush. I picked my bike up for around $500 so I've got a pretty modest investment for nice handling bike. Now if I had a thousand bucks to blow at once I may looking elsewhere but that's beside the point. This is a price point segment of the market and for somebody that fits in this slot, wanting a FS and wants something new, it's worth a look.


Even if you only have $700 to spend, and want fullsus (hardtail is a much better option new at this pricepoint), I wouldnt suggest picking that one.

The best advice to someone wanting fullsus at that pricepoint is EITHER:
<> Closeout - a couple of hundred more (which is what can often be knocked off) and youre into much better bikes. The YukonFX is one in particular that comes to mind as a good choice on a budget to begin withn (and is actually a pretty good bike, for the money unbelievable), on closeout you should be able to get it around 700.
Here is one example - though im sure you can find some over your side of the pond that are equally good deals.
<> Secondhand - theres a few downsides to it, especially having to know what to look for in terms of drivetrain wear, cracks etc - and having to replace a few minor bits later (if its gonna be major you'd have to know to turn it down).

Before anyone tries to claim that the 700DS is really a "$1295" bike (as bikesdirect claims the list is, even though noone would ever sell it for that) - lets just get this straight: It is not.
This is not a $1300 bike being sold at $700 closeout style - its simply a marketing trick... This is a $700 bike.
OK, a couple of parts on it might not be out of place on a $1300 fs-bike, but some of it simply wouldnt add up at that price (the frame included).


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

EnglishT said:


> Even if you only have $700 to spend, and want fullsus (hardtail is a much better option new at this pricepoint), I wouldnt suggest picking that one.
> 
> The best advice to someone wanting fullsus at that pricepoint is EITHER:
> <> Closeout - a couple of hundred more (which is what can often be knocked off) and youre into much better bikes. The YukonFX is one in particular that comes to mind as a good choice on a budget to begin withn (and is actually a pretty good bike, for the money unbelievable), on closeout you should be able to get it around 700.
> ...


You completely ignored the price point example I gave. Your not alone, I've seen this time after time. Someone asks, "I have $xxx to spend what do you think.......?" Then the poster gets 20 replies saying "that bike stinks so I suggest you spend $200 more and get this _____." Now the example you gave is sort of in the ball park but costs more as well not to mention some of the compenents appear to be lesser quality than the 700. The person that fits in the price point example I gave usually had a budget of $300/$400 and they stretched it just to get to the $500 range. BTW the 700 sells for $599, not $700, and you can find a little cheaper on ebay.
I doubt any of these posters who depict the 700's pivot suspension as an un-ridable bobbing nightmare have never ridden one with a decent fork and decent shock with adjustable floodgate. They've either ridden one stock or are thinking back 10 years to something they had with much poorer suspension pieces. I'm not saying it is as efficient as a higher priced design but to be protrayed like they do it is crap. I've ridden the bike for 16 months now and it's simply not true. Now, If you are accustomed to riding a high end, more expensive bike, of course it's not going to feel the same but that's not who proper target consumer is. As I outlined above, if you fall into that price point catagory, this is good option particularly if you don't plan on spending a lot more money in the near fiture but can scrape together a few hundred $'s to upgrade the suspension over the course of a year or so. For the $'s I spent I have a plush, no bob, 3.5" travel in the rear and 130mm fork that I thoroughly enjoy and I think others would too if they fit in this segment and follow the same upgrade path I did.
Regarding your comment on on Bikedirects claim to comparable bike prices, that's irrelevant to me and I could care care less.


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

Rufudufus said:


> That suspension is actually known as a Unified Rear Triangle I owned a Trek Y-bike with URT, and it was fun but there's a reason that design is now used only on their cheapest FS bikes. Not saying it sucks, but it's a 14-year-old design and suspension has come a long way since then. Don't take my word for it, google "URT pedal bob"


By the way, you are wong. The 700 DS does not have a URT suspension. Here is the definition of a URT suspension,

"The "Unified Rear Triangle" or "URT" for short, keeps the bottom bracket and rear axle directly connected at all times. The pivot is placed between the rear triangle and the front triangle so that the rear axle and bottom bracket move as one piece, and the saddle and handlebars move as another piece."

The 700 DS has a BB that is connected to the front triangle and moves seperately from the rear triangle. When a rider on a URT suspension stands on the pedals he kills the rear suspension movement. The 700 DS suspension remains active in that situation and so is far superior over a URT suspension.


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## vrb747 (Apr 17, 2009)

Got a 700DS thats 2 years old.....just about to buy one for my cousin. I ride 2-3 times a week and absolutely LOVE this bike. Just went shopping with the component list from the 700DS. Tried Giant, GT, Cannodale, Jamis, Haro, Specialized and God only knows what else, with similar specs, every one of them was 200-500 bucks more. You cannot beat this bike when it comes to bang for buck.

Ignore the naysayers, my buddies went green with envy after riding my bike, they cannot believe that I bought this bike for less than 6 bills. These are guys that ride 1500-2000$ bikes.

Granted, the rear shock is not upto snuff, but there are solutions that can improve this. If you are just starting, this is a GREAT bike with many quality components. You can always buy a nicer frame and swap out many of the components. Save your money for when you figure out what you really want. 2 years and 1500 miles later ......still going strong.

Another manufacturer with good bang for the buck is Ibex. Know a few guys who are very satisfied with them.

cheers.


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

oh great... another motobecane thread :madman:


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

belowambient said:


> oh great... another motobecane thread :madman:


Oh great, Homer Simpson,...with a beard, doh. Get a life Homer.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

belowambient said:


> oh great... another motobecane thread :madman:


Yeah, and first post, too.


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

vrb747 said:


> Got a 700DS thats 2 years old.....just about to buy one for my cousin. I ride 2-3 times a week and absolutely LOVE this bike. Just went shopping with the component list from the 700DS. Tried Giant, GT, Cannodale, Jamis, Haro, Specialized and God only knows what else, with similar specs, every one of them was 200-500 bucks more. You cannot beat this bike when it comes to bang for buck.
> 
> Ignore the naysayers, my buddies went green with envy after riding my bike, they cannot believe that I bought this bike for less than 6 bills. These are guys that ride 1500-2000$ bikes.
> 
> ...


Homer here reminded me of a something that happened to me just yesterday I thought I'd pass along.

At the trail head yesterday I had my 700 parked against a post while I was behind a tree answering natures call. Some guy rides up, sees my bike and not me and says, "what's this THING" in the usual tone that condescending big mouths use who feel it's their obligation to critique everyone elses rides. I'm 6'5" and about 225lbs and when he saw me he quickly turned away probably thinking I might take it personally, which was pretty funny in and of itself. Anyways, I don't let people like him bother me and didn't bother with him.

He went ahead on a long downhiller. I followed a few minutes later and caught up to him on a fire rode heading back up hill. This guy was on a newer Specialized 4-link with a fox shock of some kind. As I came up behind this guy he was bobing up and down as he climbed like crazy. I had about 3-4 clicks of floodgate setting (out of 20) on my RS MC 3.3 shock and my Tora 318 compression set at about 50%. My bike was riding flat and steady (zero bob) and as I passed him he had this sh*t #ssed look on his face that was priceless. Too funny.


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Yeah, and first post, too.


doh x2.......where do these flamers come from?


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## crashplayer19 (Aug 6, 2008)

i have the 2008 motobecane fantom 29er and i think that that is a great bike.....you can never go wrong buying one....they are cheap but they have pretty good components on them...


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## Kneescar (Feb 26, 2009)

OP: You say there's nothing local for you. My advice (take this how you will - I'm not even a month into serious mountain biking) is to save your cash and plan a road trip for a day. Hit a couple bike stores and test ride as many bikes as possible. Whatever bike you think you want, if it doesn't fit correctly then you're screwed. 

I thought I wanted a Fisher Marlin at one time - then I test rode it and hated the way it felt. Same with a Jamis, I just did not like the fit. The fifth bike I rode was a Cannondale F4 and after a couple minutes riding, I knew I had found my ride. 

I would not recommend buying any bike without a test ride. 

Hope that helps.


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

wow i didnt know i subscribed to this... must change now.... thoughts are too deep, must climb out of dung


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Starkonian said:


> Homer here reminded me of a something that happened to me just yesterday I thought I'd pass along.
> 
> At the trail head yesterday I had my 700 parked against a post while I was behind a tree answering natures call. Some guy rides up, sees my bike and not me and says, "what's this THING" in the usual tone that condescending big mouths use who feel it's their obligation to critique everyone elses rides. I'm 6'5" and about 225lbs and when he saw me he quickly turned away probably thinking I might take it personally, which was pretty funny in and of itself. Anyways, I don't let people like him bother me and didn't bother with him.
> 
> He went ahead on a long downhiller. I followed a few minutes later and caught up to him on a fire rode heading back up hill. This guy was on a newer Specialized 4-link with a fox shock of some kind. As I came up behind this guy he was bobing up and down as he climbed like crazy. I had about 3-4 clicks of floodgate setting (out of 20) on my RS MC 3.3 shock and my Tora 318 compression set at about 50%. My bike was riding flat and steady (zero bob) and as I passed him he had this sh*t #ssed look on his face that was priceless. Too funny.


So imagine how fast you would have gone past that inefficient pedaller if you had a good 4-link to compliment your silky smooth spin


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Lol....*



006_007 said:


> So imagine how fast you would have gone past that inefficient pedaller if you had a good 4-link to compliment your silky smooth spin


That there's funny. I don't care who you are, that's funny.


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

lol



006_007 said:


> So imagine how fast you would have gone past that inefficient pedaller if you had a good 4-link to compliment your silky smooth spin


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## Swthrtsuzy (Sep 1, 2008)

Wow. Does this thread even have a point anymore...? The OP probably already either got a bike, or else decided that mountain biking wasn't worth it because of this thread. And who's this Homer person? Are all of ya'll named Homer? I'm so confused...


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

Swthrtsuzy said:


> Wow. Does this thread even have a point anymore...? The OP probably already either got a bike, or else decided that mountain biking wasn't worth it because of this thread. And who's this Homer person? Are all of ya'll named Homer? I'm so confused...


cliffs:

1. OP wanted a bike
2. thread got rolled by misinformation
3. misinformation was corrected by numerous posts that make more sense to those that don't troll to give misinformation
4. i saw homer yesterday


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## Swthrtsuzy (Sep 1, 2008)

belowambient said:


> cliffs:
> 
> 1. OP wanted a bike
> 2. thread got rolled by misinformation
> ...


Thanks! I'm so not confused anymore! I totally get it. Dude wanted a bike, then the evil minions of bikesdirect tried to poison his mind with bad bike juju, then the heroes rolled in and tried to save the day, but the evil minions fought back and Homer Simpson came by and gave everyone a donut so we all lived happily ever after? Wow! It's just like a fairytale! :thumbsup:


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## Kneescar (Feb 26, 2009)

Not to fan the flames but.... what's the story with Motobecane? Why are they so loathed by some and loved by others?


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## Swthrtsuzy (Sep 1, 2008)

Kneescar said:


> Not to fan the flames but.... what's the story with Motobecane? Why are they so loathed by some and loved by others?


Honestly? No real clue. I think it has something to do with the company that sells them. You should do a search for bikesdirect.com and motobecane on here, and you'll see more than you ever wanted to on the subject. :madman:


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

Kneescar said:


> Not to fan the flames but.... what's the story with Motobecane? Why are they so loathed by some and loved by others?


nobody loathes them, its just odd that every thread about them is the same... the author will always talk about how it is the best bike in the world, and will always try and back up their claims with stories of how they won this or did better than anyone else on any other bike... kind of odd when other bike owners don't talk about their bikes like that...

so we call them trolls because its pretty clear that these people are just wanting to take advantage of public forums by advertising mis-information...

its also a internet based company that wont offer the same kind of service you would get at a LBS, and from what I have seen are full of a lot of broken promises selling a bike with decade old architecture... this tends to take away from what would otherwise be a positive bike buying/riding experience, which results in the typical 'university campus never ridden bike syndrome'...

I can't count on how many motobecane bikes I have seen for sale on CL that have never been ridden... there's a reason for that, noone enjoys riding them except maybe the trolls on this forum who work for the company


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

belowambient said:


> so we call them trolls because its pretty clear that these people are just wanting to take advantage of public forums by advertising mis-information...
> 
> its also a internet based company that wont offer the same kind of service you would get at a LBS, and from what I have seen are full of a lot of broken promises selling a bike with decade old architecture... this tends to take away from what would otherwise be a positive bike buying/riding experience, which results in the typical 'university campus never ridden bike syndrome'...
> 
> I can't count on how many motobecane bikes I have seen for sale on CL that have never been ridden... there's a reason for that, noone enjoys riding them except maybe the trolls on this forum who work for the company


You are a troll. There is nothing wrong with hardtails they sell, including my Fly Ti for example, plenty of people ride them just fine, and they are definitely a good value. How about next time you talk about something you got a slightest clue.

Service from LBS? That's putting "moron" in oxymoron.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

ive found that you can get a new, last years giant for the same price as a simiarly spec'd motobecane or ibex.. and the giant will always be a better bike. 700 bucks is yukon fx money.. a 10x better bike than a pos y-frame. i got my trance1 brand new, one of the best suspensions on the market for 1400.. a similarly spec'd motobecane is 1400-1500 with a generic frame and no local support.. its kinda to the point where you're not saving any sort of money, you're just inconveniencing yourself with mail order and losing support.

they've got a pretty good hold on very low end bikes. i got a windsor roadbike for 350, and it rode great! even with closeouts i couldnt walk out of any lbs with a roadbike for double that. my old 400ht was a screaming deal for 250 or whatever i paid for it. good college bikes, or spare bikes for visitors or something.


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

Curmy said:


> You are a troll. There is nothing wrong with hardtails they sell, including my Fly Ti for example, plenty of people ride them just fine, and they are definitely a good value. How about next time you talk about something you got a slightest clue.
> 
> Service from LBS? That's putting "moron" in oxymoron.


service from an LBS is all about what you want it to be... so go sit in your corner with the rest of your mot0becane cru


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## Kneescar (Feb 26, 2009)

Suzy and Below....Yeah, I am pretty ignorant/naive about Motebecane bikes. Thanks for the information. I'm sticking with what I said a few posts ago about actually riding a bike before I buy. I'm happy with what I have and even happier that I got grade A customer service when purchasing it. Having never ridden a Motobecane I am not in any position to judge one but I'm sceptical of buying any bike from an online merchant - would rather support my local shop.

Thanks again for the info.


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

belowambient said:


> cliffs:
> 
> 1. OP wanted a bike
> 2. thread got rolled by misinformation
> ...


Dude, you're too funny. You cut out the mention you had of Homer Simpson in your sig and now pretend you don't understand the reference. Doh x3!


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## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

Thinkly said:


> You don't need a Full Suspension bike for the riding you describe. Get a good hardtail and go ride. That thing will just be a bouncy, bouncy boing, boing waste of $. I would also second the 700HT.


exactly. buy a HT, for the budget. then convert the rear wheel to tubeless set up.

we have a motobecane hardtail, with a nice fork. the frame help up to 3.5 years of hard XC racing. derailleur hanger kept bending on the 4th year, so now it's been converted to a single speed ridgid.


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

Starkonian said:


> Dude, you're too funny. You cut out the mention you had of Homer Simpson in your sig and now pretend you don't understand the reference. Doh x3!


not sure what you mean there... i changed my profile... i guess thats a big deal for you on the edge troll types... sounds good, now go away and take your olympic gold friends with you


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

TrailNut said:


> exactly. buy a HT, for the budget. then convert the rear wheel to tubeless set up.
> 
> we have a motobecane hardtail, with a nice fork. the frame help up to 3.5 years of hard XC racing. derailleur hanger kept bending on the 4th year, so now it's been converted to a single speed ridgid.


because the rims wont hold air??

the reason the derailuer hanger keeps bending is probably because the engineering was rejected 10 yrs ago...


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

006_007 said:


> So imagine how fast you would have gone past that inefficient pedaller if you had a good 4-link to compliment your silky smooth spin


Since my speed was not effected by bob, riding a "good 4-link" that also is uneffected is a wash. The only variable that would have increased my speed would be a lighter weight bike. Your point is nonsensical. Aside from that, the point of my story was not to crticize 4-links but rather the guy with the big mouth who wished he had kept it shut so you pretty much missed the whole deal guy. You're just a flamer looking for a reaction...


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

belowambient said:


> not sure what you mean there... i changed my profile... i guess thats a big deal for you on the edge troll types... sounds good, now go away and take your olympic gold friends with you


Oh man, you must be a politician, no one else could lie that well, lol


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

Starkonian said:


> Oh man, you must be a politician, no one else could lie that well, lol


what makes you say that? you shouldnt call people liars when you are trying to push a product... thats called bad customer service... oh yeah... i forgot thats something motobecane is good at :sarcasm


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## Swthrtsuzy (Sep 1, 2008)

Kneescar said:


> Suzy and Below....Yeah, I am pretty ignorant/naive about Motebecane bikes. Thanks for the information. I'm sticking with what I said a few posts ago about actually riding a bike before I buy. I'm happy with what I have and even happier that I got grade A customer service when purchasing it. Having never ridden a Motobecane I am not in any position to judge one but I'm sceptical of buying any bike from an online merchant - would rather support my local shop.
> 
> Thanks again for the info.


You're very welcome.  I, personally, don't have anything against Motobecane, or even bikesdirect. Never had any experience with them. It just seems that whenever the topic is brought up, the thread turns into a clone of this one, so it must be for a reason. Good call on supporting your LBS and buying a bike that you're able to ride and try out first. That's a very wise thing to do with bikes.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

Swthrtsuzy said:


> You're very welcome.  I, personally, don't have anything against Motobecane, or even bikesdirect. Never had any experience with them. It just seems that whenever the topic is brought up, the thread turns into a clone of this one, so it must be for a reason. Good call on supporting your LBS and buying a bike that you're able to ride and try out first. That's a very wise thing to do with bikes.


Good points Suzy, I agree.

Another thing I wonder about is where are the Motobecanes? If you can believe all the hype from Mike's Minions and the claim by the "owner" of BikesDirect that their sales are in the top 10 of all bike manufacturers I would think these bikes would be everywhere out in the real world. In three years of riding(and doing the biking event things) in the West Coast States I've seen bikes from all of the large manufacturers, most of the medium size manufacturers and a lot of the small manufacturers, but never a Motobecane(or any of the BikesDirect brands). It just doesn't add up.


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## fa11out (Apr 15, 2009)

I have a 700ds and i think its perfect for what i do. sure there are better bike out there but not the yukon that was mentioned. its more expensive and it didnt fit right with me when i rode it. All these haters are just bsing because they are make snobs or they think that anyone who likes motobecanes are just trying to sell them. i personally dont even like bikesdirect but it seems like the best option for getting a moto. Unless you are into some serious downhill or freeriding i wouldnt worry about spending too much. I ride hard compared to many people and this bike has yet to give me issues(once the back shock was replaced ofcourse, replaced with a fox i found on ebay for 60$) I agree with whoever said test it though, you can spend 5 grand but if it doesnt fit you still wont like it. bikesdirect let my buddy upgrade his hardtail ht to a ds because he didnt like it althought it took 3 weeks plus to do it, so service is a possible issue if ordering from an online store.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

fa11out said:


> I have a 700ds and i think its perfect for what i do. sure there are better bike out there but not the yukon that was mentioned. its more expensive and it didnt fit right with me when i rode it. All these haters are just bsing because they are make snobs or they think that anyone who likes motobecanes are just trying to sell them. i personally dont even like bikesdirect but it seems like the best option for getting a moto. Unless you are into some serious downhill or freeriding i wouldnt worry about spending too much. I ride hard compared to many people and this bike has yet to give me issues(once the back shock was replaced ofcourse, replaced with a fox i found on ebay for 60$) I agree with whoever said test it though, you can spend 5 grand but if it doesnt fit you still wont like it. bikesdirect let my buddy upgrade his hardtail ht to a ds because he didnt like it althought it took 3 weeks plus to do it, so service is a possible issue if ordering from an online store.


Some forum members thought I was a bikesdirect "fanboy" (as they call it), but now since I have indicated in my signature that Motobecane is not the only brand of bike I own, I hope that has quieted things down. Moto is good...Trek is good... Jamis is good...Heck, BIKES ARE GOOD. Anyway, I like 'em...  :thumbsup:


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

fa11out said:


> I have a 700ds and i think its perfect for what i do. sure there are better bike out there but not the yukon that was mentioned. its more expensive and it didnt fit right with me when i rode it. All these haters are just bsing because they are make snobs or they think that anyone who likes motobecanes are just trying to sell them. i personally dont even like bikesdirect but it seems like the best option for getting a moto. Unless you are into some serious downhill or freeriding i wouldnt worry about spending too much. I ride hard compared to many people and this bike has yet to give me issues(once the back shock was replaced ofcourse, replaced with a fox i found on ebay for 60$) I agree with whoever said test it though, you can spend 5 grand but if it doesnt fit you still wont like it. bikesdirect let my buddy upgrade his hardtail ht to a ds because he didnt like it althought it took 3 weeks plus to do it, so service is a possible issue if ordering from an online store.


Yep, I bought mine on e-bay. It's a shame there's so many flamers on this forum that feel it's there obligation to tell someone they can't possibly like their bike and no one else would either...snide remarks, bashing etc. It's like being back in 8th grade all over again where if you aren't wearing the right kind of shoes you're not poplular. Sad and amusing simulaneously.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

zarr said:


> Some forum members thought I was a bikesdirect "fanboy" (as they call it), but now since I have indicated in my signature that Motobecane is not the only brand of bike I own, I hope that has quieted things down. Moto is good...Trek is good... Jamis is good...Heck, BIKES ARE GOOD. Anyway, I like 'em...  :thumbsup:


The issue with that thread, which a mod stepped into also, was that you were fanning the flames and never showed a pic of the bike, and still have not, to this day. Is the bike even built yet?

You opened several threads over some time about Moto, and still have not yet shown a picture. The site management locked the thread partly due to you.

The mod also mentioned how site management recognizes a pattern with Motobecane posts. If one goes back to that thread, they will see the mod altered his own posts, including the posts of others when things died down. It was in the cache for some time with his original comments, so they still might be out there.


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## Swthrtsuzy (Sep 1, 2008)

Starkonian said:


> Yep, I bought mine on e-bay. It's a shame there's so many flamers on this forum that feel it's there obligation to tell someone they can't possibly like their bike and no one else would either...snide remarks, bashing etc. It's like being back in 8th grade all over again where if you aren't wearing the right kind of shoes you're not poplular. Sad and amusing simulaneously.


The fact that you're sitting there typing out a post like this one acting like some sort of a victim or innocent party is ludicrous. You were slinging your share of snide remarks, and names, if I recall, Homer. So yes, I agree, this bickering back and forth is juvenile, but at least man up and take your share of the blame for fanning the flames. Why don't you just grow up and accept the fact that people may not like the same things you do. People hate on Specialized bikes, too, but I don't get pissy every time I read a thread about someone bashing them even though I own three Specialized bikes. Maybe bikesdirect should rethink who they sell their bikes to so self-righteous instigators like you and others (looking at you, Curmy) won't make them look even worse than "everyone" apparently thinks they are. :madman:


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## vrb747 (Apr 17, 2009)

BTW, I was 6' and 250 lbs when I started on my 700DS and it was able to take the abuse I dished out. Im still 6' tall 



vrb747 said:


> Got a 700DS thats 2 years old.....just about to buy one for my cousin. I ride 2-3 times a week and absolutely LOVE this bike. Just went shopping with the component list from the 700DS. Tried Giant, GT, Cannodale, Jamis, Haro, Specialized and God only knows what else, with similar specs, every one of them was 200-500 bucks more. You cannot beat this bike when it comes to bang for buck.
> 
> Ignore the naysayers, my buddies went green with envy after riding my bike, they cannot believe that I bought this bike for less than 6 bills. These are guys that ride 1500-2000$ bikes.
> 
> ...


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## Camshaft213 (Feb 16, 2008)

Personally, I would buy a Ibex Ignition Sport over a 700DS


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## vrb747 (Apr 17, 2009)

Camshaft213 said:


> Personally, I would buy a Ibex Ignition Sport over a 700DS


A couple of riding buddies love their Ibex bikes, and they give a similar bang for the buck as the Motobecane bikes.


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

Swthrtsuzy said:


> The fact that you're sitting there typing out a post like this one acting like some sort of a victim or innocent party is ludicrous. You were slinging your share of snide remarks, and names, if I recall, Homer. So yes, I agree, this bickering back and forth is juvenile, but at least man up and take your share of the blame for fanning the flames. Why don't you just grow up and accept the fact that people may not like the same things you do. People hate on Specialized bikes, too, but I don't get pissy every time I read a thread about someone bashing them even though I own three Specialized bikes. Maybe bikesdirect should rethink who they sell their bikes to so self-righteous instigators like you and others (looking at you, Curmy) won't make them look even worse than "everyone" apparently thinks they are. :madman:


ALL of the remarks I made were rebuttals to others who were out right flaming or making judgements without any direct experience re: either my bike model specifically or the manufacturer of my bike. I could care less if someone dislikes something I prefer. I instigated nothing. There are countless ways to question or debate any/all topics in a tactful way that doesn't personalize the issue. Comments such as "oh no, another moto thread, " or, when someone made their first post/review of their bike someone posts in reponse to the above jab, "It's his first post too." These types of posts are divisive in nature and diminish the potentially positive experience of this forum. Your comments are silly and irrelevant.


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## Swthrtsuzy (Sep 1, 2008)

Starkonian said:


> ALL of the remarks I made were rebuttals to others who were out right flaming or making judgements without any direct experience re: either my bike model specifically or the manufacturer of my bike. I could care less if someone dislikes something I prefer. I instigated nothing. There are countless ways to question or debate any/all topics in a tactful way that doesn't personalize the issue. Comments such as "oh no, another moto thread, " or, when someone made their first post/review of their bike someone posts in reponse to the above jab, "It's his first post too." These types of posts are divisive in nature and diminish the potentially positive experience of this forum. Your comments are silly and irrelevant.


Perhaps they were rebuttals, as a matter of fact, I'll give you that much. But for you to sit there and act like you weren't a full participant in the childishness of this thread is ridiculous. You have been as rude, if not moreso, than any other person on this thread, and I'll even include myself in that, even though I offered no opinion on the quality of motobecane bikes, nor directed any snotty remarks to specific people - my last post notwithstanding. You're snotty, you're rude, and you fan the flames just as much as anyone else, and THAT'S what I was calling you out for. You are to blame, JUST AS MUCH, as all the people that you're flinging mud at for reducing this thread, and others like it, to unhelpful nonsense, and I certainly hope that any real newbies who have innocent questions about bikes are intelligent enough to take this entire thread with a grain of salt.

As for calling my comment silly and irrelevant, you're wrong. It might have been *****y and critical, but not silly or irrelevant.

Meh, sorry for the cursing. I wasn't paying attention.


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## Starkonian (Dec 31, 2007)

Swthrtsuzy said:


> Perhaps they were rebuttals, as a matter of fact, I'll give you that much. But for you to sit there and act like you weren't a full participant in the childishness of this thread is ridiculous. You have been as rude, if not moreso, than any other person on this thread, and I'll even include myself in that, even though I offered no opinion on the quality of motobecane bikes, nor directed any snotty remarks to specific people - my last post notwithstanding. You're snotty, you're rude, and you fan the flames just as much as anyone else, and THAT'S what I was calling you out for. You are to blame, JUST AS MUCH, as all the people that you're flinging mud at for reducing this thread, and others like it, to unhelpful nonsense, and I certainly hope that any real newbies who have innocent questions about bikes are intelligent enough to take this entire thread with a grain of salt.
> 
> As for calling my comment silly and irrelevant, you're wrong. It might have been *****y and critical, but not silly or irrelevant.
> 
> Meh, sorry for the cursing. I wasn't paying attention.


I actually only called one other poster on this thread a name, "Homer Simpson" however that was HIS sig picture and title name. He quickly changed it and pretended he didn't know anything about it, that was pretty funny actually.

Anyways, I stand by my prior post and you can have your last word, such as it is.


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## Swthrtsuzy (Sep 1, 2008)

Starkonian said:


> I actually only called one other poster on this thread a name, "Homer Simpson" however that was HIS sig picture and title name. He quickly changed it and pretended he didn't know anything about it, that was pretty funny actually.
> 
> Anyways, I stand by my prior post and you can have your last word, such as it is.


Look. I know we don't agree. And I'm not trying to get the last word, such that it is. I was probably a little too critical of you, because believe me, I do understand what it's like when people are ganging up on something that you like or believe in or whathaveyou. Check out one of those Specialized bashing threads. It's the same thing as this. But, I find it such a shame that a persons innocent inquiry is met with such a circus of a thread. It probably wasn't fair of me to pick you out, personally. And it definitely wasn't fair of me to single any one person on this thread out, because frankly, the crap was flying from all sides. I think you became my target because you're so combative about it, and it rubbed me the wrong way at that moment in time. So for that, I do apologize. However, I still stand behind my opinion that you shouldn't have acted like you didn't do anything wrong because you were being just as mean as everyone else.


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## vrb747 (Apr 17, 2009)

WOW, instead of helping folks, most folks here want to make this thread, a battle-ground for personal egos. What a pity!


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## Swthrtsuzy (Sep 1, 2008)

vrb747 said:


> WOW, instead of helping folks, most folks here want to make this thread, a battle-ground for personal egos. What a pity!


I don't think so. I think people just get carried away with their beliefs and sometimes get out of hand. It's easy to forget that you're talking to another human on the other other side of the computer monitor when these discussions happen. I think it's sadder that people will look at one thread out of an entire forum and jump to the conclusion that everyone and every thread is that way. And, if that was directed at me in any part, which I'm sure it was because I deserve it to be, I did, and do apologize for my actions because I agree that this place is for people to help and be helped. I already feel like crap for being childish, but I'm sure that you didn't mean to make anyone feel bad or anything, right?


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

vrb747 said:


> WOW, instead of helping folks, most folks here want to make this thread, a battle-ground for personal egos. What a pity!


I'm glad not to be one of them. I don't own a whole Motobecane bike, but I do own 3 of their frames. Can't say I see anything wrong with them yet, though all 3 are works in progress. Let's look at the Moto bike for a moment.(excluding warranty and repair shop issues). Their value shines in some areas and not in others. Take for example the Fantom29Pro. Is there any other bike sold that offers a fork of that quality at that price? (I think there may be one other one though. ) But you get what I'm trying to say. 6 in one hand and a half a dozen in the other. You give up something to get something. If you can fix your own bike and the frame is OK, you save a few bucks with Moto. *side note: I haven't seen threads reporting broken Moto frames. Oh, and Jerk Chicken- if you open your PMs I can answer your questions. Thank You. -zarr


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## kapaso (Sep 15, 2007)

*I've actually ridden a 500DS*

I don't have anything against Moto's and I've ridden the 500DS a few times. My friend has one and I have used it when my Gaint HT was down for maintenance. My usual ride is a 10 mile loop with a sandy climb for the first 5 miles. The 500DS is a bobbing, power robbing bike from hell:madmax:. I didn't enjoy riding it and ended up buying a second bike so I wouldn't ever have to use it again.

The rear suspension is terrible IMO, your mileage may vary.


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## mlepito (May 1, 2007)

Oh, my god. I was interested in this thread because I'm seeing a lot of motobecane questions lately. I didn't know what I was getting into. Hey, I'm going to give an opinion and see if I get kicked in the nuts too. It's always nice to get different opinions from different people.


I agree that a sub $1200 full suspension is probably not a good idea. Plus if you are new to riding, you won't know what kind of full suspension you want. You haven't ridden alot yet, and you don't know the terrain around your state. Some have more suspension, some have less, some climb better, some decend better. 

So for new guys a hardtail is a great start, and for many a great end. Some people find they don't need or want a full suspension for many different reasons. Full suspension is not necessarily better then a hardtail. 

As hardtails go though, they are close in geometry. Not the same, but close. And you can tweek them with different stems and handle bars. So if you can't size yourself at a shop, don't get too worked up over buying online. 

Performance bike has a 100% guarantee. So if you don't like it or if it doesn't fit, you can send it back. Of course you will have to pay for shipping, but then you won't have a bike that doesn't fit. so does REI and they have cannondales. 

I await the nut kicking.


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## vrb747 (Apr 17, 2009)

kapaso said:


> I don't have anything against Moto's and I've ridden the 500DS a few times. My friend has one and I have used it when my Gaint HT was down for maintenance. My usual ride is a 10 mile loop with a sandy climb for the first 5 miles. The 500DS is a bobbing, power robbing bike from hell:madmax:. I didn't enjoy riding it and ended up buying a second bike so I wouldn't ever have to use it again.
> 
> The rear suspension is terrible IMO, your mileage may vary.


Agreed. 
Rear suspension could be better. Can be replaced though to make it better. Ive ridden some nice hardtails too, but given a choice, I would rather replace the rear suspension on the 700DS than ride hardtail. But Im in my mid thirties, so I may be getting too old


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

mlepito said:


> Oh, my god. I was interested in this thread because I'm seeing a lot of motobecane questions lately. I didn't know what I was getting into. Hey, I'm going to give an opinion and see if I get kicked in the nuts too. It's always nice to get different opinions from different people.
> 
> I agree that a sub $1200 full suspension is probably not a good idea. Plus if you are new to riding, you won't know what kind of full suspension you want. You haven't ridden alot yet, and you don't know the terrain around your state. Some have more suspension, some have less, some climb better, some decend better.
> 
> ...


A sub $1200 full suspension bike is not a good idea? I wonder how hard it is to be patient, wait on some good sales and build your own full suspension bike. Can it be done for under $1200 ? Probably so. I don't know. I'm building one from a 2001 Jamis Dakar Sport frame I bought 7 years ago for $279 that will probably end up costing under $900. I'm sure I will love it. Of course at 57 years old it's probably light years ahead of my riding ability. The only thing I can do better than that bike is get broken.  Fussy people's opinions will differ. Full suspension, hardtail, rigid, up to date, out of date, ...who cares? Ride what you like---and smile and be happy. If you aren't so fussy, you could get a pretty good bike from each category and get a taste of them all. Now I'll wait to get my nuts kicked too.  Take care---zarr


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## hallowedpoint (Apr 18, 2009)

Don't feel bad about this thread. I'm new here and don't know anything about the trivial crap some are arguing about. But it is very entertaining. I laughed out loud several times. And what better way to learn about stuff and be entertained at the same time.:thumbsup:


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## kapaso (Sep 15, 2007)

vrb747 said:


> Agreed.
> Rear suspension could be better. Can be replaced though to make it better. Ive ridden some nice hardtails too, but given a choice, I would rather replace the rear suspension on the 700DS than ride hardtail. But Im in my mid thirties, so I may be getting too old


A hardtail with a thudbuster works well for me and I'm 36(time flies), but the thuddy does limit what I can do. I can't get my ass behind the seat for those steep descents. For most of my riding a hardtail is the best though. I would like a nice FS ride, but cash is an issue(or lack of cash). I would also like a 29'er and may even try the the BD Windsor Team.

I don't want to bash anyone's ride and my usual loop is probably where the 500DS would be at its worst. On the flats or downhill it would and did ride OK, or you could ride it uphill if you wanted to get in really good shape!


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

mlepito said:


> Oh, my god. I was interested in this thread because I'm seeing a lot of motobecane questions lately. I didn't know what I was getting into. Hey, I'm going to give an opinion and see if I get kicked in the nuts too.
> 
> I await the nut kicking.


you asked for it


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## Dragos (Apr 13, 2009)

006_007 said:


> you asked for it


lmao 2funny


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Dragos said:


> lmao 2funny


Good stuff. :thumbsup:


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## vrb747 (Apr 17, 2009)

kapaso said:


> A hardtail with a thudbuster works well for me and I'm 36(time flies), but the thuddy does limit what I can do. I can't get my ass behind the seat for those steep descents. For most of my riding a hardtail is the best though. I would like a nice FS ride, but cash is an issue(or lack of cash). I would also like a 29'er and may even try the the BD Windsor Team.
> 
> I don't want to bash anyone's ride and my usual loop is probably where the 500DS would be at its worst. On the flats or downhill it would and did ride OK, or you could ride it uphill if you wanted to get in really good shape!


Maybe its just psychological, but compared to hardtails, the trails here in south Florida feel like riding on air (okay Im exaggerating ) on my 700DS. All my buddies agree, but most of these guys are older than me (a couple of them are in their fifties). They are also 50 punds or more lighter than me and way above my fitness level, so to me at least, their opinion makes sense.


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## Exile (Sep 23, 2008)

now don't get me wrong on this. I actually liked the 700ds when I didn't know sh!t about different brands and quality of parts. While riding around campus looking at other peoples bikes; i notice a lot of walmart bikes. So i was like hm.... frame looks sort of similar just different rear shock placement... It's either bikes from Walmart, Dicks or from the 3 LBS's here on campus.

lets "visually" compare.



















:???:


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## vrb747 (Apr 17, 2009)

lol, I had a walmart bike, I still have it. My walmart bike weighs 44 pounds, my 700DS weighs 32 pounds. That alone makes a big difference, not to mention the component list.

the drivetrain on my walmart bike bit the dust on the first ride on the trails, with my 700DS Ive punished it for two years, 2-3 times a week, still going strong.

Please do NOT buy a walmart bike, you will end up wasting your money.

If you dont want to spend the money before you decide mountain biking is for you, make some friends and see if you can borrow their bike. Lots of folks ahve used secondary bikes laying around for when their primary needs to go to the shop.

On a 700DS or any decent bike, you will enjoy riding trails, on a Walmart bike, the experience will be just AWFUL.


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