# Getting tired of falling over



## paulie130 (Jan 28, 2008)

I don't know about anyone elses' experience with clipless pedals, but I am getting tired of falling over constantly. I have not mastered unclipping, it always feels like an incredible effort just to get my foot out, with some large exaggerated sideways motion, not at all what I was expecting. I am thinking about going back to platforms but I am enjoying the ease of climbing with clipless...I just find myself take less risks because I know one mistake and I will be lying in the mud. I have my cleats set up for "beginner" and everyone has told me it will get easier...just the force required to unclip is completely turning me off. Any tips or tricks? Or should I buy some good platforms and sell these things?


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## LAZ (Feb 18, 2008)

This is NOT what I want to hear. I just bought a new bike with clipless also and have not tried it yet. I dont want to look like an ass falling all the time.:madman:


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## C S (Sep 26, 2007)

Do you have the tension on the pedals set at the lowest setting? If the force required to unclip is what is giving you problems, the pedals should be able to be adjusted to remedy that problem. Otherwise, practice a LOT somewhere that you won't get hurt if you fall. Clip in and unclip over and over just riding around to get used to the motion. I've gotten so used to it that I try to unclip when riding flat pedals


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

paulie130 said:


> I don't know about anyone elses' experience with clipless pedals, but I am getting tired of falling over constantly. I have not mastered unclipping, it always feels like an incredible effort just to get my foot out, with some large exaggerated sideways motion, not at all what I was expecting. I am thinking about going back to platforms but I am enjoying the ease of climbing with clipless...I just find myself take less risks because I know one mistake and I will be lying in the mud. I have my cleats set up for "beginner" and everyone has told me it will get easier...just the force required to unclip is completely turning me off. Any tips or tricks? Or should I buy some good platforms and sell these things?


Not sure what the problem is but cleats should come out very easily, not at all an exaggerated motion, so you may have something interferring with the shoe/ pedal interface. An LBS can check this out in a minute....

I took two or three timbers and had it down pat, my three daughters all got with one or two timbers.

I have been doing for 2 1/2 years this last year I don't ever even think about it anymore.

I have come unclipped on tech downhills, and for me that is the scariest part, I like and need to be clipped in now.

OTOH some people just don;t like it.

I think you must have a shoe/cleat/pedal interface problem.


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## dashSC (Jan 27, 2008)

LAZ, if it makes you feel better, I look like an ass falling with my platforms.


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## C S (Sep 26, 2007)

LAZ said:


> This is NOT what I want to hear. I just bought a new bike with clipless also and have not tried it yet. I dont want to look like an ass falling all the time.:madman:


You will fall. I guarantee it. But like I said, just practice over and over until it becomes second nature to twist your foot out of the pedal.


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## the.vault (Oct 11, 2006)

Paulie,

I've been riding for awhile but my girlfriend just started last year. She was having lots of problems when she first started using clipless pedals, having a hard time getting engaged and disengaged.

I worked on her shoes and the interface of the cleat to the pedal, filed the soles down, etc. She was still having a hard time. I didn't understand her difficulty of not being able to get her foot out of the pedal.

I finally got her some different pedals, it made a huge difference as soon as she got on them. Her first pedals were Crank Brother's smarty, newer ones were the cheapest Shimano SPD pedals made. Those pedals work many times better.

There are a couple things with learning how to use pedals, the whole motion thing needs to automatic, that takes time. If the pedals work poorly you'll have significantly more problems.

The pedals from larger companies, Shimano, Time(even their most inexpensive options,) work more consistently than other brands, .


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## LAZ (Feb 18, 2008)

:thumbsup:


dashSS said:


> LAZ, if it makes you feel better, I look like an ass falling with my platforms.


:thumbsup:


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## paulie130 (Jan 28, 2008)

I have Time Z pedals. I am beginning to think it is the shoe pressing on the platform very tightly that is causing the difficulty. This is my first experience so I have nothing to compare it to, but the amount of effort requires me to get "ready" and then push as hard as I can to unclip. If I am going slow and the bike stops against a log or something there is just no chance of me getting ready fast enough to unclip, that is the way it feels anyways. I think I will take a ride around the neighborhood and unclip about a million times to see if I can build up some comfort. I wish there was a tension adjustment I could just change...

On a side note, I have read some people complaining about coming unclipped accidentally...there is just no chance of that happening so I guess that is a plus.


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## osmarandsara (Jun 26, 2006)

paulie130 said:


> I don't know about anyone elses' experience with clipless pedals, but I am getting tired of falling over constantly. I have not mastered unclipping, it always feels like an incredible effort just to get my foot out, with some large exaggerated sideways motion, not at all what I was expecting. I am thinking about going back to platforms but I am enjoying the ease of climbing with clipless...I just find myself take less risks because I know one mistake and I will be lying in the mud. I have my cleats set up for "beginner" and everyone has told me it will get easier...just the force required to unclip is completely turning me off. Any tips or tricks? Or should I buy some good platforms and sell these things?


You need to tell us more about your clipless set-up. My set-up is very loose and I have lots of sideways play......so much that sometimes I accidently unclip......

I use these with the SH-56 multi-release cleats

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=17524&estore_ID=1257

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=1844

The only negative about this set-up is they suck in the mud...but I am in SoCal so basically its a problem 1 day out of the year : ) so I just live with it


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## smhnole (Feb 8, 2008)

I purchased my bike almost a month ago and put clipless pedals on it immediately. I've been riding a total of 5 times and this past Sunday was the first time I went all day (2-3 hours) without falling. You'll get used to it, just keep at it.

Friday afternoon, I rolled up next to a bench and was going to put my foot on it to rest, but forgot to unclip and toppled over the bench like an idiot. My wife was dying laughing. I hate falling, but can only imagine how funny it is to everyone who sees me do it. I can't wait until I'm in their shoes and get to laugh at a noob. LOL


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## dashSC (Jan 27, 2008)

I'm actually debating getting some, but not sure what to get. I see that the Time ATAC series gets pretty high ratings and reviews. I see there are "Time ATAC" and "Time Alium" reviews, but when I've looked around [like on Time's website], these appear to be the same pedal ? Anybody share any light ?


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## Rufudufus (Apr 27, 2004)

paulie130 said:


> I think I will take a ride around the neighborhood and unclip about a million times to see if I can build up some comfort. .


I would recommend that anybody starting out with clipless do that. You need to create muscle memory so you can unclip without thinking about it. Can't do that without practice.

I've never used Times, but lots of folks love them so I'm guessing that clipping out should be pretty easy.


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## Psycho Mike (Apr 2, 2006)

Paulie...sounds to me like there is some interference between the sole of your shoe and the pedal that is preventing you from getting in and out well. Drop by your LBS and they can help you out.

When I made the switch, I did a couple "timber!" moves, but I found what helped was sitting on the bike next to a wall and just practicing getting the foot in an out of the pedal.

Dash: Many manufacturers have different levels of pedals based on the same design. The main differences are weight (both of the pedal and your wallet).


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## darkest_fugue (Sep 25, 2007)

i use shimano spd's and have them open all the way, a little trick you can use is oil up the pedals, i always do when cleaning my bike, i spray a bit of lube on them and wipe off the access, it helps unclip much easier


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## brokefork (Jun 20, 2007)

I'm using some nasty platform pedals w/sharp spikes that hold my shoe tight to it. I just don't feel comfortable w/clipless although everyone I ride w/uses them. But, after ripping my shin w/the platforms, I went out and bought shin guards, problem solved.


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## jlk_250 (Jul 2, 2007)

I have Time Z pedals also and am also struggling with them. Lots of people -love- these pedals so there's got to be something wrong. I had to do extensive grinding on the sole of my shoes for clearance. Otherwise the tread would hit the pedal mechanism and make it harder to rotate out. Checked for that yet? Eliminating that interference helped for me but not enough. Sometimes my leg just won't rotate any farther and it's still not unclipped. Timberrrrr!!!

Note--you can buy pre-filed cleats that are easier to release. I'm trying to cut down my cleats like that but it hasn't helped so far. 
http://www.speedgoat.com/product.asp?part=47683&cat=39&brand=255


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## bloodpuddle (Jun 15, 2007)

paulie130 said:


> I have Time Z pedals. I am beginning to think it is the shoe pressing on the platform very tightly that is causing the difficulty. This is my first experience so I have nothing to compare it to, but the amount of effort requires me to get "ready" and then push as hard as I can to unclip. If I am going slow and the bike stops against a log or something there is just no chance of me getting ready fast enough to unclip, that is the way it feels anyways. I think I will take a ride around the neighborhood and unclip about a million times to see if I can build up some comfort. I wish there was a tension adjustment I could just change...
> 
> On a side note, I have read some people complaining about coming unclipped accidentally...there is just no chance of that happening so I guess that is a plus.


I agree with jeffscot: there's definitely something wrong with the set-up. If there's a mental process required to steel yourself to exert enough force to get out, then the pedals/cleats are just not set right. These things are designed so that getting out becomes instinctive ie no thought process. Get thee to your LBS!


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## tat2niner (Sep 20, 2006)

I like SPDs because you can adjust the tension. When I first used them I rode with my left foot unclipped for awhile and if I was falling I tried to fall to the left. Took awhile but now I have total confidence and control with the clipless.


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## TommyCrash (Jan 14, 2007)

Like other people said: Go to your Local Bike Shop and have them adjust your petals to your shoes. You're going to fall, you're going to fall and did I mention that you're going to fall. When I started I would consciously unclip my right foot and still fall to the left because of balance. Just one example. If you ride with someone else a lot, and they are new to clipless, get them to try it. Watching other people fall is fun. :lol: Now, if I ride without them, I'm wasting so much more energy with every crank rotation. All in time young Jedi.


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## mtnbkr01201 (Jan 17, 2008)

Psycho Mike said:


> Paulie...sounds to me like there is some interference between the sole of your shoe and the pedal that is preventing you from getting in and out well. Drop by your LBS and they can help you out.
> 
> When I made the switch, I did a couple "timber!" moves, but I found what helped was sitting on the bike next to a wall and just practicing getting the foot in an out of the pedal.
> 
> Dash: Many manufacturers have different levels of pedals based on the same design. The main differences are weight (both of the pedal and your wallet).


Good point Mike, you have to have the right shoe for that paticular pedal, play with the tension, with time you'll find it's sweet spot, no matter what - your going to fall, but you'll get better.
And again with time - you may just try doing what I do as a challange, not even try to unclip, keep balancing your bike, I learned a long time ago that I just simply hated having to put a foot down when I came to a stop, with a lot of practice I can stop for the duration of a traffic light, when the light changes I'm already set to pound the pedals.


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## medieval (Oct 7, 2007)

If yours can't be adjusted right, I would recommend trying out different brands of pedals. Some bike stores have demo pedals you can try before you buy.

I have been riding the same Shimano SPD's for 10 years now, but my new bike came with Wellgo pedals, so I decided to give them a chance. Bad idea. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get them to release reliably. After 2 days of futzing with them, (and toppling a few times), I gave up and put the old reliables on.

Some things just seem to work better than others.


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## Mike T. (Dec 30, 2003)

paulie130 said:


> I have Time Z pedals.........the amount of effort requires me to get "ready" and then push as hard as I can to unclip. If I am going slow and the bike stops against a log or something there is just no chance of me getting ready fast enough to unclip


Let's take timeout here. I've used road clip-in pedals and mtb clip-in pedals since they hit the shops (approx '85 and '90 respectively) so I've got a bit of experience.

If the Time (or any other pedal) are non-adjustable for release tension and you are having trouble getting out then they are the wrong pedal for you. You need some adjustable mid-range Shimanos or something like that. Set the retention pressure very low and perform the shoe check & mods that I'll describe below and you'll have (at first) trouble _staying IN_ the pedals.

Mount the cleats and insert the shoe/cleat into the pedal by hand and turn the shoe over so you can see what's happening. Slowly release the shoe and watch to see if ANY sole rubber touches the pedal. If it does, trim it off with a boxcutter knife. Nothing must touch.

Now go ride and practise clipping in and out. Only a complete fool would venture into terrain where necessary unclippings come as a surprise. I love this bit in your post - "If I am going slow and the bike stops against a log or something there is just no chance of me getting ready fast enough to unclip."

What the heck is a clip-in pedal newb doing in a situation like that?

Get yourself onto some benign trails where you can totally pre-plan all stops, Then you can make sure the brain/foot connection is working as you roll up to a zillion planned stops and unclip easily and safely.

I also love what poster CS had to say - "You will fall. I guarantee it."
That is so much a load of rubbish it's not funny.

Why would anyone in any sport set themselves up for failure because they don't know how their equipment works or how to set it up correctly? Let's hope he doesn't decide to scuba dive or parachute.

In the early days of clip-ins *I* didn't fall, my son didn't fall, my club members didn't fall. Why? because we understood how the stuff worked and dialed the brain/foot auto connection in safe and non critical areas. What could be the outcome of failing to unclip on a roadbike at a busy red light?

You find your Time hard to get out of. I just wish you could experience the ease of how I get out of my (non adjustable) Eggbeaters. It takes like a nano-gram of pressure to pop out of my pedals. No fighting. No struggling.

But newbs will pop out of loose pedals until their muscle memory realizes that a spring and its pressure isn't necessary to keep the foot in the pedal.

So to get rid of your frustrations, work on the main issues here - non adjustable pedals are not the ideal setup for Newbs. When you have the skill dialed then those pedals will make more sense. There's nothing wrong with them by the way; I've had a few makes of non-adjustables and they all work fine.

Then get the shoe/pedal interface dialed - trim off anything that restricts release.

Then practise in a safe, controlled environment. Graduate to tougher terrain as your skill and confidence improves.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

I have Time ATAC XS, which is basically the same mechanism as the Z but without the platform, and getting out of the pedals is easy. I fourth (or something) the idea that there's interference between the pedal and the shoe.

Usually, when I clip out I just gently push the heel towards the ground, away from the bike.


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## vmajor (Oct 1, 2007)

I have Shimano 520 something. I set them up to the lightest tension. They clip in and unclip without any problems. They also do not unclip unless I want to.

I never yet fell over with them. I almost fell twice in the first week I tried them, but I managed to unclip before making landfall. Since then, I erased the last remnant of macho BS and only ever run them on the lightest tension and with the optional platform bit stored safely away. I have to admit that I cannot for the life of me understand why there are clip-in pedals with platforms. With the normal clip-in pedal you are either clipped in or you are not. If you add platform to it, you have an additional possibility, you get snagged - cleat half in half out, followed by you hugging the ground with your head.

V.


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## edgonz (Dec 17, 2007)

Although many have given you great/expert advice, allow me to tell you what's been working for me (I've been riding clipped-in just over a month).

Don't try any 'real' trails until you feel confident riding clipped-in.

Go to a park, where you can ride on a flat surface, and ride there. As you ride, make a mental note to unclip your right foot first, clipped it back in and don't stop riding as you do this, 30-60 seconds later - unclip your left foot. Also, add to the mix - unclipping both feet at the same time as you ride. (This was the advice given to me by another experienced rider) Do this exercise until you can 'comfortably' unclip both feet.

Once you've 'mastered' flat surfaces, then try the 'novice' trails and repeat the same exercise. Novice trails are great because they add 'challenge' to the unclipping exercise.

Since, at that time, I was able to ride only on weekends - it took me about 5-6 weekends to feel comfortable with them. Also, wear body protection (knee/shingle pads, elbow pads) as you venture into more 'challenging' trails. I've gotten used to wearing all my protective gear, and that gives me more security now that I'm riding on the more 'advanced' trails in my area.

I hope this helps you out a bit. I'll tell you this much - you won't regret learning to ride clipped-in. On the trails, it makes a world of a difference!


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## paulie130 (Jan 28, 2008)

I took the pedal off and clipped the shoe to it so I could look at it. The rubber of the sole presses into the platform of the pedal enough to form a slight depression. Looks like the shoe/pedal interface could be an issue. I will try the trick of trimming the sole for little to no contact between the pedal and the shoe and report back. Thanks for the advice everyone.


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## Mike T. (Dec 30, 2003)

paulie130 said:


> I will try the trick of trimming the sole for little to no contact between the pedal and the shoe and report back.


Trust me, there's only one acceptable thing here and that is NO contact. And think of this - while you've got it in hand there is no body weight or leg weight on the shoe. This could make a difference with your "little contact" and change it to "excess contact" during riding conditions.

Get that knife out and make sure there is daylight between pedal and rubber.


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## STONEWALL (Feb 24, 2008)

hi newbie here, i am going to buy a new bike this week and i was thinking of getting the clipless pedals besides the clipping problems what is the real benefit of having these pedals


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## rydog9991 (Jan 17, 2008)

More Power! Ho Ho!


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## finger51 (Jul 21, 2006)

I had a pair of candies that were VERY difficult to unclip from- the issue was loose cleats. They would engage without a problem but would just slide around on the shoe when I tried to unclip. 
Check your cleats?


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## J-Cee (Feb 4, 2008)

My Candy's are hard to clip _in_. I have to trouble getting in on flat and starting on a slight incline...forget it. I have Forte (Performance house brand) shoes http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=23879&subcategory_ID=2120. I had to shave down the sole. Also, on the one shoe, the sole was shifted when it was glued on from the factory. Didn't think anything of it. Different pedals? shoes? I've only been riding a few weeks but the guy that started at the same time as me has no problem getting in to his Candy's with his Shimano shoes.


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## NameTaken (Nov 12, 2007)

So you are using clipless and bombing down some sweet singletrack, and you mess up and run your front wheel right into a log and go over your handlebars. What happens?

Do you stay clipped in, and your bike goes over with you? OUCH. 
Do you have to try to unclip in midair? Is this possible?
Do they release from the force even though theres no twisting?

I go over the bars alot, and usually leave my bike behind, fly through that air, and roll, and pick myself back up, so this is something I wanna find out before I switch over.  :arf:


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

NameTaken said:


> So you are using clipless and bombing down some sweet singletrack, and you mess up and run your front wheel right into a log and go over your handlebars. What happens?
> 
> Do you stay clipped in, and your bike goes over with you? OUCH.
> Do you have to try to unclip in midair? Is this possible?
> ...


When I GOTB some times I stay clipped in sometimes not, depends alot of stuff, if I stay clipped in the bike does not hurt me.

Usually if you GOTB and clip out wait a jot and the bike will land on you anyway.

Yes releasing in mid air is as easy and automatic as rightside up.

I have unclipped when I did not want to, but never the other way around.

Try hammering in a sprint at 50 km/h thats 120 RPM standing and pull a foot out of the cleat on the upstroke, its scary.


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## Slyp Dawg (Oct 13, 2007)

I would definitely go for a set of Crank brothers Candy pedals. while someone on here had crank brothers smarty pedals on their girlfriend's bike and she had problems with them, I have VERY good experience with the Candy C. I have fallen a few times due to not getting clipped out quick enough, but what I really like about these pedals is they are very easy to clip in to and out of right out of the packaging, yet they hold your feet to the pedals very well. I have the cleats mounted up to a set of specialized Tahoe shoes (very comfy and they look like regular shoes until you look at the bottom) and even tho there is a very minor bit of tread interference (I know the rubber on the sole of the shoe is sitting directly up against the cage on the pedals) on the left side (I wore the shoes for around a month before going clipless and that wore down the tread on the right shoe a little bit), but it doesn't hinder me at all when I try to clip in or out and only minorly affects how easy it is to turn my foot side-to-side when I'm pedaling or going through a technical section. I would highly recommend a set of Candy C pedals to the OP. east to clip in to and out of, they aren't hindered much/any by mud (tho things get a teensy bit sketchy if mud gets packed up around the cleat where the wings of the clip mechanism go), they are very simple, and they are pretty durable. and they look pretty good


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## mbslater (Sep 14, 2007)

*Shave the sole of the shoes*



paulie130 said:


> I took the pedal off and clipped the shoe to it so I could look at it. The rubber of the sole presses into the platform of the pedal enough to form a slight depression. Looks like the shoe/pedal interface could be an issue. I will try the trick of trimming the sole for little to no contact between the pedal and the shoe and report back. Thanks for the advice everyone.


I had the exact same problem with my Time ATAC Z pedals...and I paid the same painful price falling all the time. I finally noticed that the cleat sinks into the hard nylon sole on the bottom of my shoes, which is good in that it presses the molded bars of the cleat into the shoe so that the cleat won't twist. However, it makes the spring bar on the pedal fit so tightly that it was difficult to unclip. I took a tiny file and removed a little bit of the sole of the shoe where the spring bar fits against the cleat and noticed an immediate improvement. After a few rides, it's all broken in and works great now. I even achieved the subconscious unclipping of both feet during an "incident". I wouldn't recommend removing much material, but a half millimeter can make a huge difference.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

NameTaken said:


> So you are using clipless and bombing down some sweet singletrack, and you mess up and run your front wheel right into a log and go over your handlebars. What happens?


I fly over the bike, hopefully missing the stem... The tension on my pedals is pretty low. I have never found the bike attached to me when picking myself up. While flying over the bar, there's enough twisting motions going on to release without trying to.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*And painful...*



jeffscott said:


> When I GOTB some times I stay clipped in sometimes not, depends alot of stuff, if I stay clipped in the bike does not hurt me.
> 
> Usually if you GOTB and clip out wait a jot and the bike will land on you anyway.
> 
> ...


Inexperienced clipless riders: Before you form opinions on clipless based on very little experience, you should learn from people who have been riding clipless for a while.

I'm with Jeff. My most painful clipless experiences these days are coming unclipped when I don't want to. This usually results in a knee or groin hitting my stem.

Coming unclipped when I want to isn't ever a problem. Coming unclipped when I don't want to is the cause of some discomfort.


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## Mike T. (Dec 30, 2003)

Ken in KC said:


> *Inexperienced clipless riders: Before you form opinions on clipless based on very little experience, you should learn from people who have been riding clipless for a while.*


I'll lobby Gregg to get this made into a flashing banner at the top of this forum as well as over in Drivetrain. There probably hasn't been a topic in the long history of mtbr.com that has spawned as much fear, rumor, innuendo, speculation and plain old misinformation.


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## gnslr (Dec 24, 2004)

I am inclined to believe that the shoe and pedal are too tightly pressed together. You can trim your shoe to fix the problem as you mentioned. You may also want to place shims (they come with some cleats) under your cleats to add a little extra clearance. The only other thing you might check is your cleats themselves. Looking at the cleats they appear to be side specific. You may double check to make sure the cleats are on the correct shoe. With my Crank Brothers cleats if you reverse the cleats it changes the angle of release making you need a more exaggerated movement in order to disengage.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

gnslr said:


> With my Crank Brothers cleats if you reverse the cleats it changes the angle of release making you need a more exaggerated movement in order to disengage.


Same thing with Time: if you put the cleats on the "correct" way, the angle is smaller; and the "wrong" way the angle is bigger. There is an R on the right one and L on the left (and the same things in French, I suspect).


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## Konish (Dec 26, 2006)

I've never had an issue unclipping or clipping in, and find it a pretty intuitive process. However, I will say that making absolute statements like "I have never fallen, my son has never fallen or members of my club have never fallen" makes me suspicious. 

I have been caught in very benign situations where I fell while clipped in. I think the "low threat" nature of said activities caught me off guard when they went south and the millisecond thought wasted to the 'WTF?" reaction caused me to fall. 

When I anticipate I'm in an area that might be technical, I'm spring loaded to unclip, and saved myself regularly. 

That said, I only ride platform now. For me, it's just one less thing to think about, and as bad a rider as I am, I just know there will be moments that I simply won't be able to clip in/out fast enough. I especially hate trying to clip back in on a technical piece of trail going uphill. 

Oh, and the added benefit of NOT having to ride with my clipless shoes is awesome as sometimes, just sometimes I take my dual suspension bike around the block with my kids wearing tennis shoes. 

R/
K


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## Mike T. (Dec 30, 2003)

Konish said:


> .......making absolute statements like "I have never fallen, my son has never fallen or members of my club have never fallen" makes me suspicious.


Ok that was me. You caught me in that lie. Now I feel really bad that I've been outed.



> When I anticipate I'm in an area that might be technical, I'm spring loaded to unclip, and saved myself regularly.


You're really very special.


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## Konish (Dec 26, 2006)

Mike T. said:


> Ok that was me. You caught me in that lie. Now I feel really bad that I've been outed.
> 
> You're really very special.


LOL...Dude, relax, I wasn't calling you a liar nor was I trying to "out" you...re-read what I wrote. Seriously, are you okay? 

Look, I'll take it back. Nobody ever falls when clipped in especially in Mike T's world.

In my world, I fall at times when I least expect it, and it's those times when I don't anticipate unclipping. When I anticipate being in a tight spot, I'm already thinking about getting out of the clips...maybe a bit prematurely at times.

If that makes me special, then I guess I'm special, thanks man!


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## vmajor (Oct 1, 2007)

Konish said:


> That said, I only ride platform now. For me, it's just one less thing to think about, and as bad a rider as I am, I just know there will be moments that I simply won't be able to clip in/out fast enough. I especially hate trying to clip back in on a technical piece of trail going uphill.


Ditto. I now only ever ride clippped in on the road. Off road I use large platform pedals. Half the people I ride with use platforms. They are not any better or worse off than the ones that use clipless.

I prefer the freedom of tackling wet tricky steeps with my feet unattached to likely loose missile.... this morning for example. I do not ride off road competitively, so I balanced just the safety aspects of bouncing off the pedals (happens often) versus having to put a foot or two down quickly and in a well controlled manner when sliding off a root, rock or clay and mud covered mountainside - this happens more often to me and is a whole lot scarier.

And just for Mike, Shimano SPD is far better than Eggbeaters. I know this because I have never used Eggbeaters (/emote Victor runs away and hides  )

V.


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## chris_nor_cal (Sep 20, 2005)

you know i only fell once with clipless pedals when i was learning. i would reccomend a pedal with positive clip out like time atac pedals. you dont need to worry about messing with a screw, but you will feel a definite threshold for when you are reaching the clipout point, with a positive CLICK when you do clip out. i tried beaters/candies/mallets ,etc and i wont go back to them even though the beaters are lighter. just stick with it man you'll get it soon enough. its second nature for all of us now, we dont even think about it. just keep it on your mind and youll start to change your behavior


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Konish said:


> In my world, I fall at times when I least expect it, and it's those times when I don't anticipate unclipping.


You are not saying that you never fall when riding flat pedals, are you?


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## Mike T. (Dec 30, 2003)

Konish said:


> Seriously, are you okay?


I think I am. My wife's worried for me though.



> I guess I'm special, thanks man!


Anytime eh. I'm happy I could give you the warm fuzzies.


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## plume (May 26, 2006)

*some pedal choice advice*

I was a die hard crank brothers user for about 3 years. My first real bike had SPD knock offs and I hated them, therefore I didn't think to get the real SPDs until I wore through my third set of candies (crank bros). I recently made the switch to a real Shimano pedal, couldn't be happier. The tension adjust allows you to increase or decrease the force required to come unclipped.

The thing with Time's or Crank Brothers is that they're not all adjustable - they start off really hard to clip into and after awhile the cleats will wear (they're made of brass) and it becomes easier and easier to clip in and out. The problem is that you'll constantly be changing cleats throughout the season to get to that broken in, but not too broken in feeling.

I like SPDs the best because they are not only adjustable and feel completely more confident on descents but the bearings will certainly out last those in the crank brothers products. Until CB fixes both those issues their products will remain eye candy and nothing more. I admit a nice set of CBs LOOK a lot nicer than a set of ugly SPDs, but pedals need to perform and not just look good. I honestly have no idea why people still choose to run Times, or worse yet Speed Plays...

Bottom line, get a real Shimano pedal, set it up loose and work your way from there.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

plume said:


> I honestly have no idea why people still choose to run Times...


You never ride in muddy or snowy conditions?

edit:
As far as I can tell, among the major clipless pedal brands, Shimano and Time are mostly considered to be durable. Time and CB, on the other hand, work even in dirty conditions.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

LAZ said:


> This is NOT what I want to hear. I just bought a new bike with clipless also and have not tried it yet. I dont want to look like an ass falling all the time.:madman:


OK, do it with style when you fall, then you will look GOOD!


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## GoodStash (Jan 27, 2008)

What's up with all these arrogant jerk off's complaining about "newbs" asking "newb questions" or posting their "newb opinions". Isn't that what this forum is for? If you guys want to reply, be constructive not synical. People post for reason and it's not to deal with a**holes like you.

Unlike MikeT, I did fall when I was trying to get used to clipless pedals. Most of the time it was on technical accents involving big rocks and logs. (Yes, MikeT, I did do technical trails when learning how to use them. I wasn't going to do boring trails because I was afraid of falling down.) You're gonna fall, don't let these bike snobs make you feel inferior for doing so. 

I ride the Mallet M's by crank bros. It's a platform pedal with clips. Perfect for snaping out of when you're approaching 30 yards of technical dropoffs and switchbacks. Also, very easy to get in and out of right out of the box.


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## MW (Jan 17, 2007)

I love how threads migrate. Just wondering, though, where the OP ended up after trimming the soles of his shoes? Did I miss that post, or is it forthcoming?

I just hate to see folks discouraged from clipless. They may not make sense for some of the more extreme (and specialized) genres of our sport, but for the majority of riders . . . clipless = goodness. That's my two cents, anyway.

I first rode MTB clipless back in ~94. Yeah, it was kinda scary the first few times I went out on the trail, and yes, I think I fell over a couple times when I -might- have gotten a foot down off of flats. And yes, I will -still- occasionally fall over in really tight / slow sections if my wheel comes to an abrupt stop on a something I thought I'd cleared (or was just darn determined to clear) . . . but honestly, I'd probably be on the ground with flats in those situations, too.

But what new / prospective clipless riders may not understand is getting out of clipless pedals really does become second nature. Once you've logged some miles, it honestly requires -zero- thought. You can get your foot off the pedal and on the ground as quickly / -almost- as quickly as riding flats: you just learn to tug your foot the right way and --bam-- you're out of the pedal. Yes, even in "panic" situations.

One thing I will say, though, is to run the tension super low if your pedals are adjustable. Also, if your pedals let you adjust the amount of rotation required for release, set them to release with the least amount of rotation (I believe the CrankBrothers pedals accomplish this based on the cleat orientation . . . not sure about other brands). In my opinion, really tight setups are best left to the roadies and pure XC types.

--MW


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## me_versus_u (Jan 4, 2007)

I gave my buddy my old time atacs for his xc bike to try out and an old pair of shoes and cleats. During setup he managed to install the cleats backwards onto the shoes making for an interesting 1st ride! Luckily he wears a size 10 and my shoes were 12.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Easy Francis....*



GoodStash said:


> What's up with all these arrogant jerk off's complaining about "newbs" asking "newb questions" or posting their "newb opinions". Isn't that what this forum is for? If you guys want to reply, be constructive not synical. People post for reason and it's not to deal with a**holes like you.
> 
> Unlike MikeT, I did fall when I was trying to get used to clipless pedals. Most of the time it was on technical accents involving big rocks and logs. (Yes, MikeT, I did do technical trails when learning how to use them. I wasn't going to do boring trails because I was afraid of falling down.) You're gonna fall, don't let these bike snobs make you feel inferior for doing so.
> 
> I ride the Mallet M's by crank bros. It's a platform pedal with clips. Perfect for snaping out of when you're approaching 30 yards of technical dropoffs and switchbacks. Also, very easy to get in and out of right out of the box.


First, these "arrogant jerk off's (sic)" aren't complaining about newbs asking newb questions. These arrogant jerk off's (sic) are talking about the newbs who are passing themselves off as experts on clipless based on their (lack of) wealth of experience.

For example, suggesting that Mallet's are perfect for snaping (sic) out of when you're approaching 30 yards of technical dropoffs and switchbacks and suggesting they're easy to get in and out of right out of the box.

You see there expert, once you've ridden clipless for more than a couple of months, you won't clip out of pedals when approaching technical sections or suggest that your brand of pedals are easy to clip in or out of.

Let go of your insecurities and listen to what the more experienced riders are suggesting.


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## GoodStash (Jan 27, 2008)

Hey, arrogant jerk off (sic). 
Ever wonder why the Mallets are said to be the Downhiller's clipless pedal of choice? Ever wonder why a majority Downhill racers don't even use clipless pedals? Maybe that's because being clipped in while shooting a fifteen foot gap for the first couple times doesn't make much sense. I was simply stating that people who aren't used to clipping in and out quickly might bennefit from the platform pedal during tecnical accents/decents. And the Mallet M's are easy to snap (sic) out of right out of the box compared to the Crank bros. Smarties, Candies and any Shimano SPD's I've ridden.

Meet me at the top of a "30 yard tecnical section"(sic) and I'll show you insecurities while you're wetting your pants trying to figure out how to walk your bike down a 15 foot drop.


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## dackeldawg (Feb 12, 2008)

When I started with clipless, I just leaned the bike next to the wall and clipped in and out..in and out..after a while you get used to the motion and feel of clipping in and out. Check for shoe interference, possibly put a few drops of lube on the springs in the pedal, practice the motion. I've been on all kinds/brands of clipless over the last 15 years never had one that was really BAD, just some wereb etter than others.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Internet Tough Guy....*



GoodStash said:


> Hey, arrogant jerk off (sic).
> Ever wonder why the Mallets are said to be the Downhiller's clipless pedal of choice? Ever wonder why a majority Downhill racers don't even use clipless pedals? Maybe that's because being clipped in while shooting a fifteen foot gap for the first couple times doesn't make much sense. I was simply stating that people who aren't used to clipping in and out quickly might bennefit from the platform pedal during tecnical accents/decents. And the Mallet M's are easy to snap (sic) out of right out of the box compared to the Crank bros. Smarties, Candies and any Shimano SPD's I've ridden.
> 
> Meet me at the top of a "30 yard tecnical section"(sic) and I'll show you insecurities while you're wetting your pants trying to figure out how to walk your bike down a 15 foot drop.


And not very smart to boot. Mallets "are said to be the Downhiller's clipless pedal of choice?" A) Care to provide some data to back this up; B) So what? This has nothing to do with this thread, your original response or my response and C) I don't agree that Downhill racers don't use clipless. The pro racers certainly do.

Your ignorance is showing with the repeated use of (sic). Nice try, though. Keep at it there lil' camper.

You seem to know a lot about internet bravado but the irony in your post is that you're not helping the OP with his question, you can't read for context and you're jumping (perhaps a 15' gap or is it a drop, you're so confused) to conclusion about bike skills over the internet. Well done, champ.


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## Dan'ger (Aug 26, 2004)

*When you push yourself hard, regardless of whether you have clipless pedals or flats, you will fall.*

Here's my experience.

I started riding mountain bikes about 10 years ago after a hiatus from biking. My experience with bikes until then was BMX and 10-speed road. I had toe clips on my 10-speed.

When I started mountain biking, I was a real noob. I rode with noobs and I didn't know anyone who wasn't a relative noob. Everybody I knew rode flats and I was OK with riding flats.

When I graduated from my Wal-Mart special to a real mountain bike, I rode flats. They were Azonics with really, REALLY sharp set-screws. I constantly mangled my legs. I still rode with noobs and hadn't even heard of clipless pedals.

One day, I started riding with some different people and I couldn't keep up. It was strange to think that my bike cost more than theirs did and I was riding as often as they did but they were significantly faster then me.

Based on the many suggestions, I decided to get a pair of Crank Bros Mallets. Everybody in the new group used completely different types and brands but I settled on the Mallets and a pair of Pearl Izumi shoes and decided to give it a go.

I fell many times. I traded my pedals back to the Azonics and then back to the Mallets a few times to see if it was the pedals or me. I made many adjustments to the shoes and cleats and I eventually got really comfortable with the Mallets. I still fell occasionally when I was truly tired at the end of a ride when my muscle memory and brain were fatigued.

Somewhere in the middle of this, I started riding with the NorCal MTBR forum group and my riding got stronger, I fell less and I was going longer distances and longer durations. I invested in arm/elbow and shin/knee guards and these saved me from some of the scrapes and bruises I would have received from the falls and from the Mallets themselves.

Years later, I still fall. In fact, I fell last weekend while navigating a particular hairy rock-drop/chute trail in the slightly wet on an expensive bike with expensive clipless pedals. The fall had absolutely nothing to do with the pedals and everything to do with the front wheel slipping into a hole.

I think that my clipless pedals made the crash less stupendous. As the bike pivoted upwards around the front wheel, I was trying to hop the front wheel up and out of the hole. Because I was still clipped in, I was still somewhat in control of the bike. Failing to get the bike out of the hole, I unclipped and fell. The bike proceeded to land on me.

There's no telling how far I would have been catapulted if I was on flats.


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## GoodStash (Jan 27, 2008)

> And not very smart to boot. Mallets "are said to be the Downhiller's clipless pedal of choice?" A) Care to provide some data to back this up; B) So what? This has nothing to do with this thread, your original response or my response and C) I don't agree that Downhill racers don't use clipless.


Actually, my original response did have something to do with the thread. Instead of berrating the original poster, I stated that when I was in his situation, I liked having the platform/clip combo to "work" my way into being clipped in and having the option to be out when I wasn't sure about the section. For someone who was considering going back to platform pedals,(such as the original poster) the Mallets might not be a bad idea.



> The pro racers certainly do.


Chances are someone posting in"beginners corner" is not a pro racer. But thanks, anyways.



> Your ignorance is showing with the repeated use of (sic). Nice try, though. Keep at it there lil' camper.


Hey, genius. I was making fun of _you_ for actually using (sic) to begin with. You're the one who feels that you need to show off your "internet bravado". I mean, come on. Who really uses (sic)? Oh, yeah. Someone who spends way too much time on the internet.



> You seem to know a lot about internet bravado but the irony in your post is that you're not helping the OP with his question, you can't read for context and you're jumping (perhaps a 15' gap or is it a drop, you're so confused) to conclusion about bike skills over the internet. Well done, champ


Actually, "champ", there is a huge difference between a "gap" and a "drop". And it's a good idea to be clipped out in either case when doing it for the first time. How am I confused, Tonto?

Had I known that I needed to be so specific as to meet your level of comprehension, I would have done so.


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## Ferdinand (Dec 4, 2004)

I have egg beaters, which I now love. At first, I struggled to get my cleat into the pedal. Now, if my foot gets anywhere near the pedal, it seems to lock in automatically. I had the same stupid looking low-speed crashes that many have when going clipless. Then, as much as I started to work on clipping and unclipping, I started practicing track-stands. I can't do many tricks, but I can track-stand almost as long as I want to. With sufficient balance, the unclipping issue gets easier to work with.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Nice job guys, why don't you have your shouting match as PMs?

Clipless is not ideal for all styles of riding.
Clipless might not be what all riders want.

Many have found that clipless has clear advantages for what they want to do.
Learning to ride clipless involves a learning curve. For some it is easy, for others it takes longer.

Clipless is not compulsory.


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## vmajor (Oct 1, 2007)

But, but, this post makes sense! That is not allowed! Back into your hole infidel!


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## paulie130 (Jan 28, 2008)

Ok, just an update. I finally got around to really analyzing the problem and fixing it. I trimmed the sole where it was touching but that did not seem to help much. I took the pedal off again and really got up close with it while slowly moving it unclipped...then I saw the issue. The side of the channel where the cleat sits was hitting the bar hard, and preventing the necessary twist. I opened up the channel by cutting the sole at a 45 degree angle there and now it works awesome! Clipping in and out is much much much much to the power of 10 easier. Thanks for the advice everyone, I am glad people told me that much effort was not "normal". I am a bit disappointed I needed to cut the soles of my shoes that much, but all is well that ends well and I suspect I will be much happier riding this weekend.


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## J-Cee (Feb 4, 2008)

J-Cee said:


> My Candy's are hard to clip _in_. I have to trouble getting in on flat and starting on a slight incline...forget it. I have Forte (Performance house brand) shoes http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=23879&subcategory_ID=2120. I had to shave down the sole. Also, on the one shoe, the sole was shifted when it was glued on from the factory. Didn't think anything of it. Different pedals? shoes? I've only been riding a few weeks but the guy that started at the same time as me has no problem getting in to his Candy's with his Shimano shoes.


Update here, too. I've been out twice since this post. Definately getting better. I shaved a little off of the tread in front of the cleat. That seemed to help. I went out yesterday. I fell two times. Both were from trying to start on a steep incline, spinning out and falling to the side that was clipped in (in briar bushes nonetheless ). I don't even think about unclipping when coming to a stop anymore.


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## bmwuk (Feb 5, 2008)

To the guys arguing with each other, thanks for the entertainment and laughs. Thanks for everyone's advice and feedback to the OP. It helped me read about SPD pedals and I'm getting mine today (hopefully). :thumbsup: They are the Mallet 1's that are CB's 2008 pedal. I am rocking them out with some Specialized Taho shoes and I'm guessing some rubber will need to get removed in the area of the clip. Maybe not.

I trust I will fall but I'm not going to ride crazy. The plan is to do as others stated and put the shoe on the pedal and observe what interferes with the clipping in/out. I'm glad the OP has figured out the issue and resolved it. Happy riding everyone!


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## jalopy jockey (Jun 7, 2007)

OP not sure which exact pedal your using but in my somewhat limted experience. It may be the pedal you have. I have 2 pair one is Shimano 424 which have the platform around them, and I also have a set of XTs. I learned on the 424s, got a new bike and wanted clipless on both bikes as i still use the old ride so i got the XTs. With the same shoes the XTs are alot easier. Not sure if its the platform or the level of components in the higher end release mechanish of the XTs. but there is a distinct difference. FWIW The tension on the XTs is cranked most of the way up and on the 424s its almost off, so it should be easier. I'd replace em with better pedals but its only the famly tugger so all stops are planed. more or less. Dropped sunglasses constitue an emergency stop I'm usually coasting unclipped for 100 yards on this bike before we stop.

But thats just my somewhat NEWB opinion, As in my return to mountain biking after a few year hiatus I rode for a while beofre making the switch to clipless, which wasn't an option when I rode before, suspention was a high end thing then. So I made the switch last year but have over 1000 miles on clipless between the 2 pair.

So whatever my lowly opinion is worth.....


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## bmwuk (Feb 5, 2008)

Got em!


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## bloodpuddle (Jun 15, 2007)

is it just me, or does that packaging look very weapony?


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## paulie130 (Jan 28, 2008)

I flipped over backwards and was unable to catch myself because of being clipped in yesterday. Busted my elbow pretty hard...luckily no one saw me.


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## Wiz (Dec 2, 2004)

Paulie130: Glad to hear you got up and personal w/your shoes. Over the years, I've found that a lot of the mystery in our sport seems to work itself out w/a little help from our friends (here & and elsewhere), then applying this new knowledge to an wide open mindset, calmly studying the situation, &* like magic the problem ultimately becomes soo obvious. Like a lot of new things I guess. Anyway, it's good of you to let others know how "things" are progressing in a specific problem area. Most people here really have good intentions, sometimes it may seem people are coming off harsh or sarcastic, but in general it's misunderstood humor...trust me. 
I was a little surprised that GNSLR was the first to suggest the use of shims, whether* supplied or not. Can be the difference between cutting or not, just don't walk across those _new hardwood floors _or you'll be blaming the poor dog. 
Stash, take it easy there buddy, the responses you got are spot on. I read the thread from the beginning & nobody came off nasty, except ?. People fall, might as well make light of it. The "real peddles" rant?, come on now. Obviously, the OP is not a pro DHr, I think you brought that subject up & sorry to inform you, your again off base. I'm not giving you any sh*t, but it's pretty obvious you need some more experience before you tell it as My Provincial Way or Take The Highway attitude. It's good to get everybody's feedback, however you'll hardy see a real knowledgeable person use words that come off as This Is The Way It Is. We're all in this together & your going up against some here who Are Pros. ** 
There is a pretty good thread around about having "thin skin" or something somewhere in the forums. Enjoy helping others as others help you.*** *


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Yeah, that will happen....*



paulie130 said:


> I flipped over backwards and was unable to catch myself because of being clipped in yesterday. Busted my elbow pretty hard...luckily no one saw me.


Most people learn the lesson of learning to do manuals or ride a wheelie while clipped in after one lesson. Some of us never really learn.

Here are a couple other things you'll find:

- A Camelbak will save your back when you turtle.
- Falling over backwards will still happen to you from time to time on the trail. It's will happen so fast that you can't react in time. Usually while you're riding something rocky or rooty.
- There will come a day when you either come out of your pedals too easily or you can't get out at all. Then it's time to replace your cleats.
- When you replace your cleats, you'll likely fall on the trail once or twice because you've gotten used to coming out easier and you've gotten lazy in unclipping.


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## paulie130 (Jan 28, 2008)

I don't really know why I flipped over. I was on flat pavement path practicing my slow speed (stopped) balance. I pedaled while standing up and next thing I knew I was looking around making sure my pride was intact. (I worried about my arm after that  )


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*I know why...*



paulie130 said:


> I don't really know why I flipped over. I was on flat pavement path practicing my slow speed (stopped) balance. I pedaled while standing up and next thing I knew I was looking around making sure my pride was intact. (I worried about my arm after that  )


It's the same reason experienced riders still flip over backwards: Gear selection.

With mountain bikes, you can easily get in a gear that feels like you're applying no effort when you pedal. But you're applying a significant enough amount of power to the rear tire that you'll pop a wheelie and flip over fast than you can react.

It happened to me a couple months ago. Riding along through an up and down technical section that I rarely clear without dabbing. I was motivated to clear it, in an incredibly easy gear. I cleared the tough stuff, came up out of a ravine, leaning forward to keep my front tire down, hit a small (3" diameter at most) root, staying leaning forward and seated and pedal kicked to get my front tire on top of the root and WHAM! over on my back.

I was ragged out from having just cleared a touch section and got lazy when I thought I'd cleared everything and tried to let my suspension soak up the root.

The difference between you and I is that I had witnesses. And as soon as they found out I was okay, couldn't stop laughing at me and my lack of skill in clearing a 3" (maybe less) diameter root. It was a great day in humility.

It happens.


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## kcurrin (Feb 25, 2008)

Practice makes perfect! But the pedals you're using might not be right for you. Test the waters, you may find some that suit you better.


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## bmwuk (Feb 5, 2008)

bloodpuddle said:


> is it just me, or does that packaging look very weapony?


LOL! Maybe that's why the packaging appealed to me.

Now in terms of clipping in and out, I can now state that if you can't pop out to easily, something is interfering with this process. I was lucky in that I didn't have to do anything to my shoes. They work great with my CB Mallets.


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## Punch (Feb 28, 2008)

I tried out clipless pedals for the first time on my new Epic Comp. I believe the pedals are from Shimano as the crank is shimano. It was entertaining, I didn't even know how to lock in but I figured it out. I was also having problems clipping out and I fell, which was amusing for all my friends. I checked to make sure nothing was hitting on the bottom of the shoe and it was fine. I then inspected the cleat and I found that I didn't tighten it all the way down so it was rotating ever so slightly causing an exagerated movement to get out. I tightened that ***** right up and clipping out is a snap. Hope this helps from someone that has no clue.


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## Christopher_CK (Feb 21, 2008)

paulie130 said:


> I don't know about anyone elses' experience with clipless pedals, but I am getting tired of falling over constantly. I have not mastered unclipping, it always feels like an incredible effort just to get my foot out, with some large exaggerated sideways motion, not at all what I was expecting. I am thinking about going back to platforms but I am enjoying the ease of climbing with clipless...I just find myself take less risks because I know one mistake and I will be lying in the mud. I have my cleats set up for "beginner" and everyone has told me it will get easier...just the force required to unclip is completely turning me off. Any tips or tricks? Or should I buy some good platforms and sell these things?


Paulie,

Also check the cleat on your shoe. The shoe may be what's in your way, as expressed previously, or your cleat may just be loose. If the cleat is at all loose it will move slightly making even an exaggerated outsweep insufficient to unclip...


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## Punch (Feb 28, 2008)

^^^yes, make sure the cleat is tight!


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

*Listen...*



RandyBoy said:


> OK, do it with style when you fall, then you will look GOOD!


to the voice of experience...


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## rammbs (Sep 24, 2006)

i suggest to get a muti-release cleats










and play with the tension on the pedals


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## Parrotnot (Feb 28, 2008)

So what this all boils down to (which everyone agrees about) is...

- Clipless pedals should be easy to get out of, even for a newbie, when practising in the house (leaning on a wall etc). If they aren't there's quite possibly a problem with their setup.
- The real issue for many people is teaching your feet to do the required disengaging motion without your brain needing to be involved. This can take some time. If you choose to ride more difficult tracks before your feet know this you'll probably fall over. Quite a few people take this approach, some get put off or hurt themselves properly, others just get through it.
- Most people who stick with them until they are properly used to them really like them.

Is that about the size of it? 
I'm speaking as someone else going through the falling over experience....


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

I'd like to add one more issue that sometimes comes up. It did with me.

Confidence

I was pretty new to mountain biking when I went for clipless pedals. Not quite sure about my riding skills and with the added stress of learning clipless, I tended to approach the more tricky pieces of trail more cautiously (slowly) than I used to on flat pedals. What happens when you go into a tricky spot too slowly? You get stuck. Timbeeerrr!

I went back to flat pedals for a while to convince myself again that those trails are ridable. Pretty soon I missed the extra boost, stability and ground clearance the clipless pedals gave me. Others might be able to stick to easier trails and work up the confidence to ride the interesting bits.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Parrotnot said:


> So what this all boils down to (which everyone agrees about) is...
> 
> - Clipless pedals should be easy to get out of, even for a newbie, when practising in the house (leaning on a wall etc). If they aren't there's quite possibly a problem with their setup.
> - The real issue for many people is teaching your feet to do the required disengaging motion without your brain needing to be involved. This can take some time. If you choose to ride more difficult tracks before your feet know this you'll probably fall over. Quite a few people take this approach, some get put off or hurt themselves properly, others just get through it.
> ...


You hit the nail on the head. I went through that experience last year. My biggest mistake was being in the wrong gear and losing my momentum, which caused me to fall over. If you see a hill coming downshift. I would rather be in a gear that's too easy instead of falling over or putting a lot of stress on my chain halfway up the hill.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Or you could use proper technique....*



Rod said:


> You hit the nail on the head. I went through that experience last year. My biggest mistake was being in the wrong gear and losing my momentum, which caused me to fall over. If you see a hill coming downshift. I would rather be in a gear that's too easy instead of falling over or putting a lot of stress on my chain halfway up the hill.


Upshift (harder gear), stand up and start pushing harder as you approach the hill and carry your momentum up the hill. Downshift as required to maintain momentum as you climb.

Or give singlespeeding a try. You'll either stand up and hammer up the hill or walk. I walk a lot at the beginning of the singletrack season.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

perttime said:


> I'd like to add one more issue that sometimes comes up. It did with me.
> 
> Confidence
> 
> ...


I had a friend who did the same thing. If you're too cautious you're going to be going to go slow and fall. This is why most people recommend riding fireroads or on trails that aren't going to challenge you until you're comfortable with the peddals. If you drop it into a low gear and just keep peddaling you'll clear these areas. That's how I did it. Just muscle through 'em.


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## Parrotnot (Feb 28, 2008)

But - and here we come to the key issue it seems - I don't want to be just riding fireroads! Or in parks. I guess the trick is to keep being careful for a while - and make sure that the risk of falling over is only in safeish places (no bid drops or rocks or ditches). 
Actually, I'm not doing too badly with unclipping just before anything that looks too risky and riding with my another bit of my foot. It's the surprise stuff that's getting me - like the back wheel spinning suddenly on a gravelly uphill. Yes, I know that as a 'clip in pedal newb' I might be being a bit foolish Mike, but then to be honest taking a bike up and down bumpy gravelly rocky icy muddy stuff is 'foolish' in most people's eyes and yet we all do it and (mostly) get away with it.

Maybe some practise in front of the television then? Perhaps every time the TV shows something red or something I have to unclip... Shame about the carpet.

By the way - a particular thanks to 'screeemer' for his post in the other recent thread about this: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=390340 - I found his comments really helpful.


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## GaryS (May 14, 2004)

First, a little history- I'm an old guy (clyde) who has been casually mountain biking for twenty years. About six years ago I made the switch to clipless pedals and have _finally_ gotten used to them. It has become almost automatic to clip out in advance in hairy situations but I still experience situations where it seems more difficult to clip out than clip in.

So- I'm out in the garage this afternoon (I'm retired so I have lots of spare time) and I happen to glance at the shelf where I keep spare bike parts/tires/tubes and I see the stack of SPD pedals that I have tried over the years. A light bulb goes on over my head as I remembered this:



Mike T. said:


> Mount the cleats and insert the shoe/cleat into the pedal by hand and turn the shoe over so you can see what's happening. Slowly release the shoe and watch to see if ANY sole rubber touches the pedal. If it does, trim it off with a boxcutter knife. Nothing must touch.


Hmm. So I picked up one of my shoes (PI, my favorite) and clipped it on one of my SPD pedals attached to my Cannondale Jekyell. Hmm, lots of contact there. I get out my Dremel and ground away until I had clearance and even tried it with my other Shimano pedals (I have 515, 520, 540 and 324) and kept grinding until I had no contact when clipped in and when rotating to clip out. I did the same to my other shoes and then went for a test ride....

Amazing!

Now it seems as if I can just clip in and out without having to even think about it. Wow, I'm ready to go riding! Thank you Mike T.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*For clarity....*



Parrotnot said:


> But - and here we come to the key issue it seems - I don't want to be just riding fireroads! Or in parks. I guess the trick is to keep being careful for a while - and make sure that the risk of falling over is only in safeish places (no bid drops or rocks or ditches).
> Actually, I'm not doing too badly with unclipping just before anything that looks too risky and riding with my another bit of my foot. It's the surprise stuff that's getting me - like the back wheel spinning suddenly on a gravelly uphill. Yes, I know that as a 'clip in pedal newb' I might be being a bit foolish Mike, but then to be honest taking a bike up and down bumpy gravelly rocky icy muddy stuff is 'foolish' in most people's eyes and yet we all do it and (mostly) get away with it.
> 
> Maybe some practise in front of the television then? Perhaps every time the TV shows something red or something I have to unclip... Shame about the carpet.
> ...


You'll pick this up quickly because you'll be clipping and unclipping a lot more when you're in a door frame. Once you go outside, you'll practice again but it will be "live". You'll pick it up quickly based on the repition from the door frame clipping and unclipping.

The door frame part is just repitition until you're comfortable with clipping and unclipping without looking at your pedals or thinking about the process. After that, I'm talking about an hour or two of practice in a relatively tame (non-technical) environment.


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## Mike T. (Dec 30, 2003)

GaryS said:


> First, a little history- I'm an old guy (clyde) who has been casually mountain biking for twenty years. About six years ago I made the switch to clipless pedals and have _finally_ gotten used to them. It has become almost automatic to clip out in advance in hairy situations but I still experience situations where it seems more difficult to clip out than clip in.
> 
> So- I'm out in the garage this afternoon (I'm retired so I have lots of spare time) and I happen to glance at the shelf where I keep spare bike parts/tires/tubes and I see the stack of SPD pedals that I have tried over the years. A light bulb goes on over my head as I remembered this:
> 
> ...


Your *"AMAZING"* is amazing! Congrats and I'm glad to have helped *someone!*

Maybe it's only ol' guys like us that can learn eh? The young are too impatient. They want it *now*. Errr what was the question again?


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## STONEWALL (Feb 24, 2008)

> Hmm. So I picked up one of my shoes (PI, my favorite) and clipped it on one of my SPD pedals attached to my Cannondale Jekyell. Hmm, lots of contact there. I get out my Dremel and ground away until I had clearance and even tried it with my other Shimano pedals (I have 515, 520, 540 and 324) and kept grinding until I had no contact when clipped in and when rotating to clip out. I did the same to my other shoes and then went for a test ride
> 
> i am a little nervous!! i just picked up my new mtb and added shimano spd 324 pedals and specialized bg sport mtb shoes i did everything everbody said to do and i had no problems with shoe to pedal clearance? is this normal i don't want to sound like an idiot (too late) but it seems like a lot of people have problems maybe i missed something or i am over thinking again. also i set the pedal to a loose setting at first and didn't like it so i tighten them up and still didn't seem to have a problem keep in mine that i have only been tooling around town with some stop and go


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

There seems to be some combinations of pedal/shoe that have these clearance issues. I cannot say which, and haven't had them myself.



Mike T. said:


> Maybe it's only ol' guys like us that can learn eh? The young are too impatient. They want it *now*. Errr what was the question again?


 I am not exactly a kid either but I have a faint suspicion that I did not learn to walk or ride a bike in one day. Learning to operate a stick shift car took a while too.


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## Parrotnot (Feb 28, 2008)

OK. I worked out an interesting and revealing exercise. 

The thing is I didn't find it helpful to practise indoors originally. The whole thing was too easy and lulled me into a false sense of security. 'No problem' I thought...'this is easy...'. Problem was that at the end of the street I forgot I had to be thinking about it and just started thinking about cycling. So my brain was busy elsewhere...'any cars coming'... 'safe to go...?'. Timberrrr....

So. Here's what I've just found helpful:
The first bit is obvious: Sitting on the bike in a door frame. Brakes on so the bike's not moving anywhere. So I can't fall over...
...then get the bike balanced with my elbows on the door frame, tuck my elbows in and try to do one pedal revolution backwards before unclipping - and make sure that I unclip whichever foot is appropriate (right if the bike is falling right) so I can put my foot down before I rest on the door frame again.
I didn't think this would be hard - but the balancing and deciding which foot to unclip rule put just enough demand on my brain that I can't be concentrating on telling my foot how to unclip. And there's this strange sense of panic - for no good reason because there aught to be plenty of time and the door frame is there anyway.

I'm guessing that if I can get this sorted then I'll be much safer outside.

By the way, it might be helpful if we could bring toe straps into this discussion explicitly. I'm in no doubt whatsoever that being clipped in is better than being on plain (unstrapped) pedals. I've tried that and it's lethal - feet come off at the first proper bump. My question (the one I'm asking myself) is whether clips are better than toe straps (yes I know 'better' isn't necessarily a helpful word - I mean 'better' given practise and on challenging terrain where it may be necessary to put a foot down suddenly and unexpectedly). And of course I don't mean tightly done up toe straps - but loose ones. These don't convey the advantages in terms of power and stuff - but certainly do the job in terms of keeping your feet on the pedals when you want them there - at least through anything I've ever done. Of course I'd be willing to accept that what might be going on is that I already learned to use straps through many years with them on the road - so my feet know how to deal with them automatically - but I can't shake from my head the recent comment about people learning that it's a bad idea to do wheelies in clips - there's no issue with that kind of thing in straps, even for a complete beginner (and before anyone says I do know that trying this would be foolish and I have no intention of doing so - that's not my point).

Anyway, in the end I guess the only way to answer these questions is to do the practising before making any judgement (everyone has made that very clear - thanks for the advice I really appreciate it). 

Back to the doorframe...


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Toe Clips*

It's all personal preference. Some of the best riders I know still use toe clips. Why I prefer clipless over clips:

1. Clips are extremely unnatural for me to to get out of. To get out of toe clips, you have to lift up and move your foot backwards off the pedal. For me, it's much easier (and much less to think about to twist my heel outward and unclip.

2. Clips are hard to get in to. The weight of the clip means it's always on the bottom when you start off. So you have to flip it over and slide in, then reach down and tighten up the clip once your foot is in. I used to do it. I know people who still ride that can do this effortlessly. For me, it's much easier just to step in to the clipless pedal.

Clipless pedals evolved as an improvement from Toe Clips. Hence their counter-intuitive name (you clip in to clipless pedals?). I'm old enough to have ridden both. I prefer the newer technology.


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## Gambledook (Mar 10, 2008)

so clips mean toeclips

and clipless means spd time crankbroc etc?

and platform is well "normal" pedals?

I just put some eggbeaters on my bike today and wow they are so much nicer than the spd pedals that came with the bike


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## Wiz (Dec 2, 2004)

TRY SHIM(S)! 
think outside of the box, man.


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## bmwuk (Feb 5, 2008)

Gambledook said:


> so clips mean toeclips
> 
> and clipless means spd time crankbroc etc?
> 
> ...


Bingo! And I love my Crank Brother pedals. So easy to get in and out of.


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## Parrotnot (Feb 28, 2008)

I'm getting it!! Two emergency unclipping situations today - steepish uphill, muddy, occasional steps, back wheel spin trying to get over step, bike stopped dead... And I made it out of the pedals both times without having to think about it. That's quite a lot of riding I've done to get this far (a couple of rides a week since i was posting last on this thread) but now I can see light at the end of the tunnel - it's starting to feel like the (clipless) clips *might* even be better AND quicker to get out of than the loose straps I'm used to.


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## mad_bart (Apr 23, 2008)

I've been riding on the road for a while and run pretty high tension on my Ultegra road pedals. I'm just getting into mountain biking and have yet to take my new ride on the trails, do you think unclipping should be a problem for me with eggbeaters?


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## Parrotnot (Feb 28, 2008)

mad_bart - what I've gone on about above is my discovery that the issue wasn't with the technical thing about *how* to unclip - but with teaching my feet to do it without my brain having to get involved (because the moment you need to do an emergency unclip is the same moment that your brain is engaged in other things and doesn't have time to worry about your feet). Inexperienced though I am, I'd guess that if the unclipping movement is the same as with the Ultegra pedals then you'll have no problems. I use eggbeaters, and there's absolutely no issue with the technical side of unclipping.

Perhaps the one problem you'll face (as I am) with the eggbeaters is that they are pretty slippy to use unclipped. So you kind of just need to go for being clipped in on the scary stuff or walk it - riding unclipped isn't really a good option.


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## sleestak (Feb 12, 2008)

Just wanted to pop in and say thanks. It was painful to read this whole thread and weed through some of the pissing contests, but I came out with some good ideas.

I just started riding again after over 10 years and dove right into a pair of clipless.... Time Aliums. I knew I would have to put some time in and I fell a few times, usually going really slow or coming to a stop. But then I was riding some technical downhill and ended up going over the bars. I got one foot out and managed to catch myself to cushion my faceplant, but then the bike came down and mashed my knee between the bars and the frame. HUGE bruise on my knee, ego, and self-confidence. I still ride them though and thought it was just part of the game till I rode my buddies set up and saw how easy it was to get out.

I am gonna have to try shaving by shoes a bit with the dremmel and see how that helps as well as lube them up really good. The springs are non-adjustable so I am going to have to try some tweaking.....you fella's gave me some good no-brainer ideas that I just didnt think of....duh.


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## comptiger5000 (Jun 11, 2007)

I'm getting a pair of Time Aliums soon, I'll give my opinion when they arrive. I'd rather have to make a slightly exaggerated effort to get out than be popping out randomly.


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## sleestak (Feb 12, 2008)

further inspection showed that I had contact between my shoe and the pedal, so I shaved it down with the dremmel and fixed that right quick, but I also notice that the rear bar on my pedal was coming in contact with the side of the channel that my cleat sits in on the bottom of my shoe......carved out a channel for that as well, lubed them up and they pop out significantly easier (but not too easy).

Thanks to you all for the helpful tips.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

*A couple of things.*

I've just skimmed through this whole thread wondering if I might have anything to add and I think I do.

I'll state for the record that I started out with loose toe clips (straps might be a less confusing word) then went to platform pedal which we called 'bear traps' and then onto Shimano based clipless pedals which I have been riding for at least ten years.

Toe straps: Don't even bother. Riding with them pulled tight is dangerous as it is hard to get out. And they are a total pain to get into when starting on anything technical... up or down. Furthermore, they promote VERY bad riding technique off-road. You end up pointing your toes down to keep your feet on the pedals. I used to smash my toes on rocks and things.

Bear traps/platforms are undoubtedly the best option for those going big. A number of downhillers use platforms for preference, including World Champion Sam Hill. But many others use clipless. All personal preference and possibly background I think.
When I rode them I found I could rail corners much better than my old toe-strap pedals because I could lift my inside foot and not have to get it back into the clips. Using these encourages good technique since you have to use your legs properly to stay connected to the bike.

Clipless: I've ridden these exclusively for years, and in some ways I've got a bit lazy in my technique, but I never have any trouble clipping in or out. Bunny hopping is certainly easier and requires less skill to do well.

Plenty has been said about trimming shoes to make them clear the pedal. Angle grinders work well for this. 
But I didn't see anyone mention setting your cleat float correctly. I have mine toed all the way in at the front or it makes it too hard to unclip.
When riding normally I like to have my feet against the point of engagement so the least amount of outward heel movement will let me unclip. It makes those emergency releases so much easier.

Also, and I haven't seen this mentioned, always unclip whichever foot is up, since there is no weight on it. My father still falls occasionally after 10 odd years riding clipless because he forgets this and tries to unclip his downhill foot in a hurry.

I think I've said enough. I hope after 5 pages of comments that mine will be useful to someone.

b.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

i went from old tennis shoes and platforms to stiff spd biking shoes with platforms and noticed a huge improvement in climbing. the soft soled running shoes waste tons of power flexing instead of pushing the pedals. 

then i went to clipless and didnt notice much improvement in climbing.. my platforms have good enough spikes that i can spin about 80% of a circle.. i dont think im losing that much for the last 20%. id imagine most people jump from their crappy old floppy shoes straight into clipless and good biking shoes and decide the improvement is 100% in the pedals. i had my girlfriend get the shoes first as well, and she reported a huge advantage even on the platforms. 

either way, shoes or pedals or whatever, you're not going to change a component on your bike and magically you can do 10K foot climbs in a day when before you were bonked after the first mile. maybe they'll help you more than they helped me, but ill guarantee you, as a new rider, you'll be getting tired in damn near the exact same spot.

youre going to fall mountain biking. ive been riding for 10 years and i fall. its part of the sport, its amazing anyone would be obsurd enough expect not to fall. you will. if you fall from not clipping out you'll get right back up unhurt, its no big deal, most of those falls are <1mph falls. worry about your tire washing out on a random loose section when you're mashing at 30mph or something, the clipless oops-falls hurt your ego more than anything.


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## campisi (Dec 20, 2004)

Well, I may have learned something from this thread ... I retired my trusty old 747 SPD's which I could clip in and out of with ease and no thinking. Decided to go all bling-bling and bought some light CB Candy Ti's. I have had them for aobut 2 months and I STILL fall every ride because I can't get my right foot to unclip easily enough. Left is no problem. As soon as I go home I'm gonna check the shoe clearance on both sides. I use Sidi dominator shoes (worked fine with the 747's). I tell you what, those 747's still work as good as new and I bought them in '97!


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## Parrotnot (Feb 28, 2008)

OK! At last I actually LIKE my clipless pedals!

Long ride at the weekend, and I was actually pleased to be clipped (should it be 'cliplessed'?) onto the pedals for the first time. And emergency stops are no longer a problem.

I realise this thread has gone on for ever and ever and I'm helping to keep it alive - but thinking back a month or so I was really getting to feel like this wasn't going to be worth the effort - and I'm writing now in the hope of offering encouragement to others. It's taken me since February to stop falling over, and nothing else I've encountered in cycling (since getting on my first bike as a child) has taken this long to conquer. 

Just to repeat what I've said several times above because this was the advice I personally needed to hear... The problem wasn't 'how' to unclip (easy), but teaching my feet to do it without my brain needing to be involved. The practice needed is substantial for many people. There are advantages over not just plain pedals, but strapped pedals too.

(By the way bshallard - I have to say that I agree about the strapped pedals being a pain to get into, clipless being better overall, but completely disagree about the 'bad technique'/pointing your toes thing. With good shoes I've never had this issue.)

I feel that at this point I also have to reflect on Mike T's advice at the beginning of this whole thread, and the argument which followed. I'm really sorry Mike. I really very much appreciate that you take the time to offer help and advice to people, but - perhaps unintentionally - I personally feel your postings on this subject (the ones here and others in the same vein) have actually been discouraging to beginners with clipless pedals. Forgive me, but as one (a beginner with clipless) I do feel that I do have the necessary qualifications to comment on this if nothing else. I'm not arguing with the accuracy of what you say, or your own experience - but there's absolutely no way that I would have had the patience to practice only in completely safe situations for the last three months. I chose to take the risk and go to places where there was some chance of an emergency stop - and I've got away with only a few bruises and scratches from my falls. I have fallen over, and despite treating your advice very very seriously, I can't see an alternative. You personally - and those you are involved with - may have been able to find a way to learn without ever falling over - but I can't see how ordinary human beings (being impatient and by nature imperfect) can follow in your footsteps (of course I'd treat this differently if I was learning to parachute, but that's not the point). In trying to help you actually risk persuading people that they just can't get on with clipless - when actually they are just going to have to accept that there is a real balance to be met between practising and risk. And to make comments like "Only a complete fool would venture into terrain where necessary unclippings come as a surprise." (etc etc) is just unhelpful. Sorry again. I know you were only trying to help - and I do know how easy it is to unintentionally upset people on web forums (trust me, I've done it many times). Can I offer a slightly surprising suggestion: Do please continue to give your advice. I really appreciated hearing it, and I'm sure others do too - and your opinion is obviously based on real expertise. But please please modify your language to recognise that many people (me included) simply don't share your experience (nor like being called a fool by the way). I think that you'll find that your advice is actually heard by more people that way too. Mike, I hope you are able to take my comments in the genuinely positive way that they are intended.


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## Blaineikans (Apr 7, 2008)

Parrotnot said:


> I chose to take the risk and go to places where there was some chance of an emergency stop - and I've got away with only a few bruises and scratches from my falls.


Glad you got it Parrotnot I just recently went clipless and I've gotta agree with what you just said. There's no way I would simply have played around in a safe place. I went on the trails the day after I got mine and we have plenty of vicarious situations and drops. I've fallen a few times but now I can't see riding without them. I went on a new trail yesterday and my friends riding platforms were getting bounced off constantly while I was just coasting right through.

Congrats again Parrotnot!


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## Mike T. (Dec 30, 2003)

Parrotnot said:


> I feel that at this point I also have to reflect on Mike T's advice......... - but there's absolutely no way that I would have had the patience to practice only in completely safe situations for the last three months.


Neither would I or anyone I know or have known. I'm sure some people are never meant to do many things in life but they choose to, no matter what the cost. Maybe your motor skills are in inverse proportion to your verbosity.


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## Lastshot (Apr 26, 2008)

This Thread just got me motivated to go and practise more clipless...My english paper can wait till later!


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## pisiket (Sep 19, 2006)

Parrotnot said:


> I'm writing now in the hope of offering encouragement to others. It's taken me since February to stop falling over


Here is more encouragement for the beginners: my buddy fell once right at the parking lot when getting a feel of unclipping, and stumbled a couple of times on the trails. That was it for him. 

On the other hand, another buddy's heels point so much in (toes point out) that it's anatomically very difficult for him to unclip by moving the heels out. He went back to platforms quickly.  He is also the type who jumps down from the seat with the feet in front of the pedals, instead of extending one leg out. No luck for unclipping for him... 

So it depends on the rider too...

Ali


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## bigpedaler (Jan 29, 2007)

I've been clipless for about 4 years now; started out on wellgo's (2 sets -- 1st was pretty good but wore out, 2nd was trash, ended up w/ one of them sticking in my garage wall), a set of genuine SPD 515's (my daughter has them now on her bike -- work great for her -- failed to assimilate last year, took her about 2-3 min. this year), and I'm running ATAC Aliums, 15 months on the same cleats. Sweetest setup I've ever used! ONE time, I went down w/o unclipping, never have fallen over. They just WORK!

But for the newb crowd, I can't say anything but genuine Shimano SPD's. The adjustable tension is irreplaceable for the learning curve.

btw -- my daughter is 10. So you can all do this!


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## tduro (Jan 2, 2007)

I'm not here for an argument, but rather just to relate my own experiences. 

I've been riding w/ cages and straps (clips?) for all of my 16 years of riding. I've got to tell you, some of the negative things I've read here are things I've never experienced in all of those 16 years. (1000 miles/year X 16 years = 16,000 miles!) 

I prefer the most technical stuff I can find. As such, I do a lot of endo's, and usually land on my feet. I've never been stuck in the pedals, and I like them tight. 

Lately, I've been practicing stationary balancing skills. I can usually get my feet in the cages before I even start pedaling. If not, I'm in on the first or second pedal stroke, even on technical up-hills. They usually go right in without even thinking about it. Sure, if I change bikes, pedals, or shoes, it takes a ride or two for it to becomes second nature again, but I would expect the same from clipless. 

I've never had to point my toes downward, such that my toes strike rocks. I've never heard anyone else say that either, until I read it in this thread. 

I rode clipless once, with borrowed shoes on a borrowed bike. Granted it wasn't the best intro to clipless, but I could've spent big $$ for the same experience! So glad I didn't. I endo'd into a creek and stayed fully clipped the whole time. I had to break the fall with my hands and arms. Still couldn't get out after being down for awhile. Fortunately I only hurt my ego. Near the end of that ride, I stopped next to a guard rail along a road, then proceeded to fall over into the guard rail and all of its sharp edges. Very frustrating. Clipping in was just as frustrating. It took several stops/starts and trial and error every time I had to clip in. To be honest, it wasn't a bad ride, but then it wasn't that technical either. If I had been riding in my home terrain, it could've been very ugly. 

I'd like to graduate to clipless some day, but I'm VERY reluctant to give up the easy in/out functionality I have with my "clips". I suspect the more solid connection to the bike has its advantages, which I'd like to exploit. But I suspect the advantages are minimal, perhaps not even measurable. I further suspect it's more of a fashion thing, which stems from aggressive marketing techniques. 

I'm not the best rider, but I can hold my own with my "old school" equipment. I firmly believe it's not about the gear. Maybe I can gain 1% performance by spending another $1000 on bike gear. But I can gain 10% through practice and fitness training. I'd much prefer my performance gains to be through skills, rather than gear. Someday, if/when I get really good gear, I'll be that much better already.


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## wazupdog42 (Dec 28, 2007)

Another way to practice is to lean against the side of a house or a pole and practice w/ one foot, then switch.


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## jsigone (Aug 25, 2004)

I used the cheapest SPDs, I can find, generally those $20 ones, why because they unclip a WHOLE lot faster but hold enough for me to climb well.


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## Guest (May 14, 2008)

after riding some real long/steep hills with platforms i got soo frustrated and went clipless, couldn't be happier now, you really notice a difference with the climb, i don't do enough downhill to warrant keeping platforms, it's all about momentum, if i feel my legs slowing down on a steep/techy climb i just unclip. simple as that, no more horizontal track stands for me


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## Parrotnot (Feb 28, 2008)

tduro: I have to say that you're starting at pretty much the same place that I did. I've come to the conclusion now that switching from one to the other has brought advantages - but that these advantages aren't so impressive that the choice to switch was an inevitable one, particularly given the practise needed. I'm very glad I've switched - but I certainly don't feel foolish for having stuck with straps for so long. And I completely agree that fashion is having an influence here.

Of course the situation may not be the same for someone who doesn't currently use straps - in that if they are going to have to learn 'clipless' or straps they might as well go for clipless from the start (unless cost is a real issue). My memory tells me I never had any problems learning with straps, but then I did all of this on the road not on a mountain bike - and perhaps being much younger than I am now helped me to learn more quickly. I have to conclude that had I been learning off-road my learning might not have been so easy.

The main advantages (for me) have been: 
- weight (having just got my first really nice bike this is enough to be mildly significant)
- lack of sharp edges on the pedals
- ease of clipping in (with a little practice and the right style of pedal it really is easier than straps, even though I was very accomplished at this - I'm using eggbeaters by the way)
- ease of unclipping (with the right pedals and attention to the points raised in this thread, and lots and lots of practice it really has become just as instantaneous as with straps)

At this (early) stage the disadvantages have been:
- a very long learning period, with my riding badly disrupted
- a continuing fear of the particular circumstance of doing an unintentional wheelie on a steep upward hill (comparatively easy to stay unhurt with loose straps as feet fall out backwards and you end up standing - I'm sure that with a little more practice I'll lose this fear but it continues to slow me down)


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## jdp526 (Apr 21, 2006)

Older guy here, will be 55 in a week or so. I have been bicycling most of my life when I wasn't riding motorcycles. I started mtbing about two years ago and went clipless after riding with toe-clips in years past with my onroad bike. I fell several times but kept using them, but then I developed some tendonitis below my kneecap so I went back to regular pedals. I started using the clipless again a few months ago, Crank Bro Candy SL, and with the cleat forward all the way on my big shoes, the comfort level has been much better. But, I continue to fall. Got by for a few months without falling, lol, but, damn, I have fallen three times in the last 10 days! 

Fell after back tire caught the edge of trough I was trying to ride out of, I should have hopped the back end up and over. Guess I will learn by experience. Then, the second time I was in a thick bed of leaves rolling very slowly when the bike slipped out from under me. Third time was yesterday evening, trying to manuever up a slight incline around a large rooty tree and somehow I managed to fall over. I'm not even sure what happened, but I bruised my kneecap on a rock. I guess the front wheel may have hit a root instead of rolling over it.

Its frustrating falling over, and usually it happens so quickly that I dont have time to unclip. If I am approaching a difficult section I will even unclip or at least prepare to if I hit a snag. And, of course, I usually fall in front of people, lol, embarrassing myself, but thank goodness, I have not had any serious injuries.


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## TX_Shifter (Aug 14, 2007)

Sup! I been clipped for about 2 weeks. I too also use SPD and I never set the tension.

But now I will since this was my 1st bust and the stupid thing about it, I was trying to clip into the pedal when looking down, then 2 seconds later, POW right into the tree w/ my right handle bar and my bike dragged w/ me on my right forearm.

Yea I know....

but I do have a little bit of a pita trying to get out. What I usually do when I get out is when I am about to stop, I click out then stop. Never stop (pause) and then click out.


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## walnhmtbr (Jan 3, 2006)

I had a 1/2" hematoma on my elbow from double hits on the same spot with SPD pedals (5 years ago). I had to ride with an elbow pad for the rest of the season just in case I hit it again. I switched to egg beaters the same season and have not looked back. There was no transition between types of pedals, just switching pedals. For someone not experienced with clipless pedals egg beaters may look like they do not have enough support, DO NOT BELIEVE YOUR EYES. If you ride XC or AM there is no other pedal ( not candies not smarties ).


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## Gatorback (Oct 9, 2007)

To the original poster--Just keep riding. You'll get better at getting out of the pedals when you need to do so. The transition just takes time, and some of us need more time than others. I fell into the "needed more time than others" category. It is all worth it in the end and someone getting out of the pedals quickly will be second nature. You are always going to be improving as a rider if you keep riding and this is just one of those stepping stones in my opinion.


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