# Quick Rack Mach 2 Sales Launch lol



## camdelle (Sep 30, 2010)

We are beginning to take orders tomorrow, July 7, 2020. If you are receiving this email, you are a presale/waiting list recipient with special pricing before we start selling to the public.

As per Cal’s promise to you, we have saved your place on the waiting list!

Thank you for patience. You are number XXXX on the waiting list of approximately 6300 people based on your first signup date from before QuikRStuff when Cal started the new design to June 30, 2020.

You will be receiving an email with your unique link to purchase one Mach2 and up to 3 Add-ons. It is only for you and not to be shared . We are trying to respect the integrity of the waiting list and everyone’s patience.

Pay-in-full at our discounted launch price of $499 for the Mach2 hitch rack and, if you choose, $349 per Add-on (maximum 3 Add-ons). This will move you to the top of our distribution list, ensuring that you get a rack as quickly as possible.
OR pay a deposit of $199 at the discounted launch price to secure shipment of your Mach2 and any Add-Ons and as soon as paid-in-full orders have been fulfilled.
OR do nothing. We’ll remove you from the email/waiting list, but you’ll still be able to buy a Mach2 at regular retail prices when it’s available to everyone. Stay tuned via our blog posts, emails and social media.

You’ll have 72 hours from the release of the email to make your purchase, so don’t delay. Everyone has been waiting patiently and we want to get the rack into everyone’s hands asap.

We are trying to move things forward efficiently after the long wait and begin the process of building out the factory efficiently, yet conservatively.

Thank you again,

$848 for a 2 bike rack is the discounted price. LMFAO. 3 years later and definitely not cheaper. I bet this discounted price is 50% off of normal retail LOLOLOLOLOL

Just checked and the full retail price for a 2 bike rack is $928.00. We' all got to thank Cal for knocking $80.00 of the full retail price after waiting three years. lololololol


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I'm amused by the fact that it looks like Cal blew his money on trying to claim ownership of the names and trademarks, only to be bought by a couple of guys in CO, who did what Cal SHOULD have done years ago (rebranded and moved on).

They'd better get that price down, stat! That thing isn't going to be competitive until it's at or below the $600 mark for 2 bikes. If/when it does, the people who paid $850-$930 are going to be right pissed off.


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## Let's Roll (Jul 7, 2020)

Harold said:


> I'm amused by the fact that it looks like Cal blew his money on trying to claim ownership of the names and trademarks, only to be bought by a couple of guys in CO, who did what Cal SHOULD have done years ago (rebranded and moved on).
> 
> They'd better get that price down, stat! That thing isn't going to be competitive until it's at or below the $600 mark for 2 bikes. If/when it does, the people who paid $850-$930 are going to be right pissed off.


Now why in the world would they ever go that low? Anyone comparing prices with 1upUSA needs to make a more comparable comparison with all things included.

- 1upUSA 2 bike rack in black = $649 https://www.1up-usa.com/product/2in-super-duty-double-bike-rack/

+ License plate holder = $49 https://www.1up-usa.com/product/license-plate-holder-2/

+ Hit bar stop = $11.99 https://www.1up-usa.com/product/hitch-bar-stop/

+ EZ Pull = $69 https://www.1up-usa.com/product/ez-pull/

+ Fat Spacer Kit = $34 https://www.1up-usa.com/product/fat-tire-spacer-kit/

+ Quick Slide = $34 https://www.1up-usa.com/product/quik-slide/

Grand total = $846.99.

This is all for an inferior product and without the ability to run a single rack set-up. Granted, you may not need all of those bells and whistles, but this is closer to an apples to apples comparison.

If you chose to start off with a single 1up rack and build from there, your total would cost $875.99 with the max capacity of running a total of 3 racks only. So now your price is higher with less loading ability.

QuikRStuff may have a high initial cost, but I wager that they are warranted and you are getting a set up that fixes all of the flaws of the original 1up rack.


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## Oktavius (Nov 8, 2006)

Let's Roll said:


> Now why in the world would they ever go that low?


Addressed some concerns in the main thread here:

https://forums.mtbr.com/cars-bike-racks/quik-rack-mach-2-a-1063128-post14857737.html#post14857737

Why would they go low on price? It is a tough market right now. Economy is wonky. QuikRStuff is a brand new company with no guarantee it will last. Coming in at a better value would drive more customer demand and hopefully more sales. There is more to value than counting up the add-ons for a competing product. Coming into the market as the most premium rack may not be the wisest of choices given the state of the world. That is why in the world they should drive for a lower price.

Now, I think $600 is too low but that is my own opinion. Still should of tried to undercut the competition even with the enhancements. That builds value in the eyes of consumers. Not linearly adding things up.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Let's Roll said:


> Now why in the world would they ever go that low?


"they" huh?

Don't you mean, "we"?

I mean, you're brand new to mtbr and you've only posted in threads about this specific rack. Let's be honest who we represent, here.

This whole thing is an old fiasco with lots of baggage attached to it. Showing up on the market as the most expensive rack (doesn't matter if you include the bells & whistles and your "competitor" offers them as extras) with a shaky global economy and years of baggage attached to the product is a rough proposition. You're going to have to give on something to convince people, first, that the old baggage no longer applies to your product, and second, that it's worth the money. Notice which one I put first. That's important here. Brands have DIED based on a reputation they built here on mtbr. Shedding that reputation free and clear is a hard ask. It's going to take work. Giving people who have been on the waiting list for 3 years more than $80 off would be a start. Let them help build the brand's reputation back up by getting them using and talking about the product and the company behind it (glowingly) by word of mouth.


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## Let's Roll (Jul 7, 2020)

yes, "they". I have no affiliation with them but I don't need to prove anything to you. You've made assumptions about me based on my post count. By the same token, I can say by your 28k posts, perhaps you need to get out more. You see how making assumptions about someone works?

I feel sorry for anyone who has waited 3 years. I've only been waiting for 3 months and am number 59xx on the list. I feel they have priced their rack accordingly to the market. Many companies have entered a market as a brand new offering and have priced themselves at the top of the market. It can work if you've distanced yourself from the competition. 

The marketplace will dictate that and time will tell if this company succeeds or not. You mention the global economy so perhaps you've noticed that the Nasdaq is at an all time high? Housing demand far outweigh supply? Many industries are booming, including cycling. Nearly all manufacturers are in this industry can't keep up with demand and are sold out on many products.

The bottom line is that the bike rack market is saturated and consumers should feel lucky during this time of having so many choices. If the Quikr rack is out of your price range, just move on as there are plenty of other options. I'm sure they will find many customers, such as myself, who are willing to pay for a USA made rack that fixes many of the 1up's shortcomings.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Let's Roll said:


> yes, "they". I have no affiliation with them but I don't need to prove anything to you. You've made assumptions about me based on my post count. By the same token, I can say by your 28k posts, perhaps you need to get out more. You see how making assumptions about someone works?
> 
> I feel sorry for anyone who has waited 3 years. I've only been waiting for 3 months and am number 59xx on the list. I feel they have priced their rack accordingly to the market. Many companies have entered a market as a brand new offering and have priced themselves at the top of the market. It can work if you've distanced yourself from the competition.
> 
> ...


You might also note my join date. That's when the current forum software was installed. That's where those posts came from.

Some industries are doing well, but that's not the whole story. Other industries are tanking. Take the restaurant industry, for example. Airlines, anyone? Anyone with half a cup of sense knows that the stock market doesn't tell the whole story, either.

**** is uncertain, if anything. Yes, the market is also saturated. You're awful heavily invested in this product that still isn't actually in anyone's hands yet. First, the wait is going to keep it out of a lot of people's hands. Second, the price is going to cause others to pass on it, too. Which means it's going to be harder for the manufacturer to get people using it and generate real positive commentary about the rack and their business.

I also note that you didn't bother to address the baggage that the new company inherited. More than the price, I like to avoid negative baggage like what's associated with this rack. As I've said, I know multiple brands that have sunk at least in part because of reputations they earned here on mtbr. You won't find those threads, either, because they went WAY over the top and got deleted (and many participants banned). But people remember.


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## Let's Roll (Jul 7, 2020)

Harold said:


> You might also note my join date. That's when the current forum software was installed. That's where those posts came from.


Then as an OG member, you should know everyone has to start somewhere and you should welcome these new members instead of jumping to assumptions. Remember, I only brought up your post count because you brought up mine. I'm a father of 2 young children who just started biking. Like many people around the world quarantining, we are getting more involved in the outdoors.


Harold said:


> Some industries are doing well, but that's not the whole story. Other industries are tanking. Take the restaurant industry, for example. Airlines, anyone? Anyone with half a cup of sense knows that the stock market doesn't tell the whole story, either.


You mentioned the global economy and I pointed out that some industries are booming - namely, Cycling. These racks do pertain to the cycling industries and not airlines or food, right?


Harold said:


> I also note that you didn't bother to address the baggage that the new company inherited. More than the price, I like to avoid negative baggage like what's associated with this rack.


I haven't been here long enough to have any baggage affect me so I don't need to address it. As far as I know, QuikRStuff is a new company with a fresh start. It may affect you and that's fine. Plenty of choices out there for consumers to choose from.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Let's Roll said:


> Remember, I only brought up your post count because you brought up mine.


Twas your post HISTORY more than your absolute count that was relevant. The internet has a long and storied history of company representatives showing up somewhere to do guerrilla marketing in an attempt to influence various forums and social media. Reviews sections on Google, Yelp, TripAdvisor, etc are full of them. MTBR has had its share, too. Your posts in overwhelming support of a single product are highly suspicious, and I'm not the only one who thought as much.



Let's Roll said:


> I haven't been here long enough to have any baggage affect me so I don't need to address it. As far as I know, QuikRStuff is a new company with a fresh start. It may affect you and that's fine. Plenty of choices out there for consumers to choose from.


And yet, that baggage is available for everyone to read in one of the threads where you yourself posted. This is one reason why your overwhelming support was so suspicious.

This apparent new company does NOT have a fresh start because their first product on offer is one with lots of baggage. Plus, these are pre-orders for a product that they STILL don't have in stock (this is a big part of the baggage that they're taking on - VaporWare), not actual product that they have on hand and will ship immediately after receiving your money.

And really, if you want to dive down into the cycling industry, the stuff that's killing it right now isn't the top end chichi stuff. What's blown up is stuff at the low end and middle price points. People buying a $400 comfort bike aren't likely to spend that much on a single bike rack for it. IME working at shops, those folks are unlikely to buy a rack at all, and are more likely to just shove the bike into whatever vehicle they've got.

Service is also killing it. I was at my local shop the other day for an event they were hosting, and the one sales guy on hand told me the service department is absolutely hammered. They are booked 5 weeks out for service right now and that's unheard of around my parts.

There are a fair number of high end and cottage gear manufacturers in my area. A lot of them have reduced the amount of their original products that they're making right now, because they pivoted to making PPE. While they might be doing well right now, it's not necessarily because biking or hiking or paddling gear is flying off their shelves.


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## Let's Roll (Jul 7, 2020)

Harold said:


> Twas your post HISTORY more than your absolute count that was relevant. The internet has a long and storied history of company representatives showing up somewhere to do guerrilla marketing in an attempt to influence various forums and social media. Reviews sections on Google, Yelp, TripAdvisor, etc are full of them. MTBR has had its share, too. Your posts in overwhelming support of a single product are highly suspicious, and I'm not the only one who thought as much.
> And yet, that baggage is available for everyone to read in one of the threads where you yourself posted. This is one reason why your overwhelming support was so suspicious.


I can see why my post may have been suspicious, but I don't agree with it sounding "overwhelming support". Regardless of those indications, they do not merit such matter-of-fact assumptions. Perhaps we just got off on the wrong foot.

All across the internet spread over thousands of forums, there are many lurkers who never post. The fact is that many aren't up to date with the progress of the rack itself and are spreading misinformation or not making accurate comparisons - so I felt the need to address that. I spend most of my time here lurking in the "Families and Riding with Kids" subforum.



Harold said:


> This apparent new company does NOT have a fresh start because their first product on offer is one with lots of baggage. Plus, these are pre-orders for a product that they STILL don't have in stock (this is a big part of the baggage that they're taking on - VaporWare), not actual product that they have on hand and will ship immediately after receiving your money.


Again, my comment regarding a fresh company is to me. Maybe I should have worded it "As far as I'm concerned". The past does not matter to me. It may to you and that's okay.



Harold said:


> And really, if you want to dive down into the cycling industry, the stuff that's killing it right now isn't the top end chichi stuff. What's blown up is stuff at the low end and middle price points. People buying a $400 comfort bike aren't likely to spend that much on a single bike rack for it. IME working at shops, those folks are unlikely to buy a rack at all, and are more likely to just shove the bike into whatever vehicle they've got.


I can tell you that this is not true in the kid's market. Top end products from Trailcraft, Prevelo, Woom, Spawn are all sold out. Have a look on ebay for used versions of these bikes and they are all selling well above MSRP.

I can also tell you that I fall under the category that you just said aren't likely to happen. I ride a $550 Specialized Roll, my wife rides a $650 Trek Marlin, and my 2 children ride a $400 Spawn Yoji 16" and $350 Woom 2. I felt comfortable with the $1500 investment right off the bat. Sure, I could save $200-500 going with something comparable on the market, but if this rack lasts me 20 years, the difference spread across the years for the improvements done is well worth it.

In addition, should this hobby stick, I will most likely upgrade to other bikes in the future. Sometimes future proofing yourself winds up costing you less in the long run. As opposed to getting something cheap and then needing an upgrade down the line.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Let's Roll said:


> I can tell you that this is not true in the kid's market. Top end products from Trailcraft, Prevelo, Woom, Spawn are all sold out. Have a look on ebay for used versions of these bikes and they are all selling well above MSRP.


Those bikes are a bit of a different animal. My understanding of them is that they've always been a bit harder to get.

My point about the Mach2 rack is that there are plenty of other very very good racks that cost a TON less money. I've got a Kuat NV 2.0 that's a very good rack. It replaced (via insurance due to a wreck) a Kuat NV 1.0 which was also very good. I've got some Thule rack products, too. I'm headed out in a little bit to pick up a Yakima rack for my truck. I've got an Exodux rack ordered for that same truck. I also have a couple of 1upUSA roof trays.

I'm not afraid to spend some money on quality rack products where they make sense. And I certainly am not loyal to any single company here.

Whether you think the history that goes along with a product is important to you or not doesn't matter too much. You do need to recognize that it matters to others and that it plays a role in that product's (or company's) future. As I've said before, companies have died (or thrived) based on the reputations that they built here on MTBR. As a general consumer, if you're researching products, this is something you at least need to be aware of.


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## Let's Roll (Jul 7, 2020)

Harold said:


> Those bikes are a bit of a different animal. My understanding of them is that they've always been a bit harder to get.


Not necessarily. Prior to the shutdown happening and the boom in the cycling industry, these bikes were all readily available.



Harold said:


> My point about the Mach2 rack is that there are plenty of other very very good racks that cost a TON less money. I've got a Kuat NV 2.0 that's a very good rack. It replaced (via insurance due to a wreck) a Kuat NV 1.0 which was also very good. I've got some Thule rack products, too. I'm headed out in a little bit to pick up a Yakima rack for my truck. I've got an Exodux rack ordered for that same truck. I also have a couple of 1upUSA roof trays.


I've looked at all of those racks and unfortunately, they don't work with my bike because I run a front rack and the hold down mechanism can't grab onto the tire. I either need to go frame hold down or 2-tire hold like the 1up, QuikRStuff, Saris MTR, or Thule Helium and then the pricing between them is pretty darn close.

Also, I wouldn't say the racks you listed cost a TON less either. The Kuat NV 2.0 for a 4 bike set up will cost $1,178 vs $1,546 for the QuikR rack. With the Kuat, you lose a lot of flexibility of being able to run a 1x or 3x set up. You're locked in running 2x or 4x. This doesn't even factor in some of the other benefits of the QuikR system.

It's like someone else chiming in that they could get a Hollywood SE4 rack for a TON cheaper than the Kuat NV 2.0. You're no longer comparing similar products, even though they can do the same job.



Harold said:


> Whether you think the history that goes along with a product is important to you or not doesn't matter too much. You do need to recognize that it matters to others and that it plays a role in that product's (or company's) future. As I've said before, companies have died (or thrived) based on the reputations that they built here on MTBR. As a general consumer, if you're researching products, this is something you at least need to be aware of.


I did put a lot of that into consideration and in the end it was worth it to me to take those risks. It seems to me that on this forum, many are already negatively against the QuikRStuff company without giving it a fair shot or truly being up to date on the current product. As you mentioned, there are no reviews on the product yet there are plenty here ready to speak negatively about it. Just look at the other thread and you can see many uninformed spreading misinformation. It's no wonder a company's future can so easily get destroyed here&#8230;too many are too quick to rush to judgement IMO.


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## Let's Roll (Jul 7, 2020)

Harold said:


> And really, if you want to dive down into the cycling industry, the stuff that's killing it right now isn't the top end chichi stuff. What's blown up is stuff at the low end and middle price points.


Just want to also point out how wrong you are here and it again points to all the blatant assumptions I've noticed from many members here. Perhaps you should visit 1up's website to see they can't even keep up with demand. Are they not at the top end of the market and a direct competitor to QuikRStuff?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Let's Roll said:


> Not necessarily. Prior to the shutdown happening and the boom in the cycling industry, these bikes were all readily available.
> 
> I've looked at all of those racks and unfortunately, they don't work with my bike because I run a front rack and the hold down mechanism can't grab onto the tire. I either need to go frame hold down or 2-tire hold like the 1up, QuikRStuff, Saris MTR, or Thule Helium and then the pricing between them is pretty darn close.
> 
> ...


You're fighting this hard. Why?

I sure didn't pay Kuat NV 2.0 pricing. I paid for an NV 1.0 2 bike rack. Got rear ended, and insurance forked up the extra cash for the upgrade, since the original one was no longer made. I'm not complaining, but it is getting into territory with marginal improvements for a lot more money. I have my doubts that I'd pay for one new. I didn't buy a 1up hitch rack because the tongue mechanism doesn't play nice with the Subaru and the stealth hitch on that car. A handful of other companies' racks don't, either.

It's kinda silly complaining about having an extra slot for a bike if you're going to be carrying only 1 bike. There are very good arguments for having capacity to carry an extra bike or two because occasionally you add a friend or a kid or whatever. I've just decided that in general, I'm not a big fan of platform racks that carry more than 2 bikes. They get unwieldy beyond that. The exception being if you use the outer 2 slots for smaller kids bikes. But for 4 or more adult bikes, I like using a different type of rack.

There are a lot of people who feel burned by Cal and his Mach2 rack, and rightfully so. The new company is a serious upstart, and so far they haven't really done anything to reassure people that they have their act together (the e-mail is really only a continuation of old, unfulfilled promises so far). I don't have a problem with people who feel burned. Neither should you. If you don't think their experiences/comments are relevant for you, then just move along. IF you actually get one of these racks, then you can share that when (if) you get it. Trying to defend yourself (and the new manufacturer) vehemently as though none of that other commentary has any basis at all in reality reeks of shilling. At this point, you have very little evidence that this rack will ever end up in anyone's hands.

All that history with this rack happened, and a lot of people in this forum have been involved from the beginning. Some people were gung-ho about it from the start, and are left unhappy with how things ended up. That's not "uninformed misinformation" by any stretch.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Let's Roll said:


> Just want to also point out how wrong you are here and it again points to all the blatant assumptions I've noticed from many members here. Perhaps you should visit 1up's website to see they can't even keep up with demand. Are they not at the top end of the market and a direct competitor to QuikRStuff?


Supply chains are erratic AF. All kinds of random **** is unavailable and it doesn't necessarily mean that whatever industry that makes it is killing it.


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## Oktavius (Nov 8, 2006)

Harold said:


> You're fighting this hard. Why?


That is a good question but it does seem he came here to argue and defend his decision to purchase the Mach2. Obviously his choice and opinion are better than everyone else's. Everything else is baggage and misinformation. Sadly, there is a lot of that going on in the world.


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## Dr Evil (Sep 20, 2015)

You also have to account for those such as myself who have been waiting for 3 years and kept on being told, "It's just around the corner." "We are getting ready to release." "It won't be long now." Well, many of us jumped ship out of needing a rack. It is kind of like being strung along by a girl you were dating for a while only to be blown off in the end. You get scorned. You feel burned. Sure you hopefully move forward in another relationship but are very weary doing so. IMHO I totally feel that those who put up with this soap opera for YEARS should have been rewarded or enticed by a sweeter offer. Yes, the new company didn't start this **** show but they need to understand what they were inheriting. Take care of the folks who stood by waiting for what seemed an eternity. Especially since the original price advertised was so different. I am sure many like me are totally satisfied with the rack they wound up getting because they got tired of being strung along.


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## Rockadile (Jun 27, 2005)

Let's Roll said:


> ...
> Also, I wouldn't say the racks you listed cost a TON less either. The Kuat NV 2.0 for a 4 bike set up will cost $1,178 vs $1,546 for the QuikR rack. With the Kuat, you lose a lot of flexibility of being able to run a 1x or 3x set up. You're locked in running 2x or 4x. This doesn't even factor in some of the other benefits of the QuikR system.
> ...


You do realize that the price difference you mention is a not insignificant 31% difference, right? Also, with respect to the "other benefits" how is it a deal if the customer didn't want those options? It is great if you were gonna purchase them separately from the other company, but if not, you wouldn't want them factored into the price comparison.


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## Rockadile (Jun 27, 2005)

Dr Evil said:


> You also have to account for those such as myself who have been waiting for 3 years and kept on being told, "It's just around the corner." "We are getting ready to release." "It won't be long now." Well, many of us jumped ship out of needing a rack. It is kind of like being strung along by a girl you were dating for a while only to be blown off in the end. You get scorned. You feel burned. Sure you hopefully move forward in another relationship but are very weary doing so. IMHO I totally feel that those who put up with this soap opera for YEARS should have been rewarded or enticed by a sweeter offer. Yes, the new company didn't start this **** show but they need to understand what they were inheriting. Take care of the folks who stood by waiting for what seemed an eternity. Especially since the original price advertised was so different. I am sure many like me are totally satisfied with the rack they wound up getting because they got tired of being strung along.


This ABSOLUTELY! I waited...and waited for this rack....remaining hopeful it would make it to production. I picked up a cheaper rack while I waited for what I thought would be the last rack I would ever buy. I figured the price may change but I would never have expected it to change that significantly. The laughable price coupled with the 72 hour deadline is enough for me to be out. The funny thing is that some people are comparing prices with 1Up and stating that the price difference isn't that bad. Guess what? This is introductory pricing and will be going up when it goes on sale to the general public...are you saying that that increase won't be a big deal, too? It is crazy to think that it will be even more expensive and that these guys will actually remain competitive in the rack market. If their introductory pricing isn't already the most expensive rack on the market, their post introductory pricing likely will put them at the top...all from a company with zero reputation. I've been holding out purchasing a 1Up due to some of the sketchy customer service issues I've read about...but better the devil you know than the devil you don't.


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## Let's Roll (Jul 7, 2020)

Harold said:


> You're fighting this hard. Why?


 The same could be said for you. I will buy into this system and as you have already alluded to, I have reasons to see the company succeed and not fail so I am protected in the future. What is your reasoning for fighting so hard against it? At least I have a legitimate reason.



Harold said:


> I sure didn't pay Kuat NV 2.0 pricing. I paid for an NV 1.0 2 bike rack. Got rear ended, and insurance forked up the extra cash for the upgrade, since the original one was no longer made. I'm not complaining, but it is getting into territory with marginal improvements for a lot more money. I have my doubts that I'd pay for one new.


 I don't care what you paid or how you got to the system that you're running. What matters is that you brought up these racks and said they are a TON cheaper. If you're going to compare systems, you better compare direct competitors. It's like you're now saying I can get a Huawei phone and it works fine, why would I want an Apple Iphone 11 Pro. If you understand product development and cost, then you will know about the 80/20 rule of economy. Incremental improvements on the top end always cost more.



Harold said:


> It's kinda silly complaining about having an extra slot for a bike if you're going to be carrying only 1 bike. There are very good arguments for having capacity to carry an extra bike or two because occasionally you add a friend or a kid or whatever. I've just decided that in general, I'm not a big fan of platform racks that carry more than 2 bikes. They get unwieldy beyond that. The exception being if you use the outer 2 slots for smaller kids bikes. But for 4 or more adult bikes, I like using a different type of rack.


Again, another opinion of yours spoken as matter-of-factly. Maybe having the ability and flexibility to go 1-2-3-4 racks vs 2-4 only is not important to you. To others, it may prove very useful. Keeping a 2-rack system on your car means you have to raise and lower the rack each time you want to open up your tailgate if you have a van/suv. By going 1 rack only, you never need to touch the rack. When you need to add additional racks to carry extra bikes, it's a simple process on the QuikR system. 
In addition, what about families out there with only 1 child that will never need to run more than 3 racks? With many other systems, that means employing a 4-rack setup and always having an empty slot. Not to mention those systems will now cost the same if not more. Name me another rack on the market that can go 1-2-3-4. There are tangible benefits, nothing silly at all and was never a complaint.



Harold said:


> That's not "uninformed misinformation" by any stretch.


  My comment on this matter, as I had already stated if you read correctly, was directed to the other thread. Lots of comments by other members who are not up to date on the product spreading misinformation.


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## Let's Roll (Jul 7, 2020)

Harold said:


> Supply chains are erratic AF. All kinds of random **** is unavailable and it doesn't necessarily mean that whatever industry that makes it is killing it.


These are YOUR very own words here: "And really, if you want to dive down into the cycling industry, the stuff that's killing it right now isn't the top end chichi stuff. What's blown up is stuff at the low end and middle price points."

Is 1up not at the top end of the market?

1up's direct message *"DUE TO THE CYCLING MARKET EXPLOSION.."*


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## Let's Roll (Jul 7, 2020)

Oktavius said:


> That is a good question but it does seem he came here to argue and defend his decision to purchase the Mach2. Obviously his choice and opinion are better than everyone else's. Everything else is baggage and misinformation. Sadly, there is a lot of that going on in the world.


I came on here to straighten up some facts and was attacked. If you read my posts, I said I feel sorry for those who had to wait all those years. So because of their past history that did not affect me, I should just rule them out? If you believe in past history, what if Cal's story is true: https://www.1upusahistory.com/

How about all the customer's who've purchased a 1up rack after this came out? Are they in the wrong for supporting a company with that history?


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## Let's Roll (Jul 7, 2020)

Rockadile said:


> You do realize that the price difference you mention is a not insignificant 31% difference, right? Also, with respect to the "other benefits" how is it a deal if the customer didn't want those options? It is great if you were gonna purchase them separately from the other company, but if not, you wouldn't want them fctored into the price comparison.


I never said anything about insignificant and I never brought up pricing. Harold said in his own words, "a TON" cheaper. $368 more is not "a TON" from my perspective. Everyone has to set their own budget. Those who plan to get many years out of their racks, it may not seem so much once you divide the cost across years and uses.


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## Rockadile (Jun 27, 2005)

Let's Roll said:


> I never said anything about insignificant and I never brought up pricing. Harold said in his own words, "a TON" cheaper. $368 more is not "a TON" from my perspective. Everyone has to set their own budget. Those who plan to get many years out of their racks, it may not seem so much once you divide the cost across years and uses.


Obviously the lingo Harold used was to indicate a significant price difference. I would consider a 31% price difference significant. What about when the introductory pricing ends and it goes up more...would that be significant then? Your rack is gonna cost more than all your bikes! Good thing you're gonna get in on the introductory pricing. I will anxiously await your feedback once you get the rack as I am not ruling it out entirely. I am just not willing to get caught up in the buy it now within 72 hours or the price goes up. I have a feeling this is gonna blow up in their face.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Let's Roll said:


> I came on here to straighten up some facts and was attacked. If you read my posts, I said I feel sorry for those who had to wait all those years. So because of their past history that did not affect me, I should just rule them out? If you believe in past history, what if Cal's story is true: https://www.1upusahistory.com/
> 
> How about all the customer's who've purchased a 1up rack after this came out? Are they in the wrong for supporting a company with that history?


The way that reads to me is that Cal was an idiot who gave way too much control to an employee who was entirely too young and inexperienced to manage his business responsibly. If it's 100% factual, Cal got burned by poor business decisions he made. It's probably not completely factual, and is instead colored by Cal's feelings, and we'll probably never know the whole truth. One question I have is why didn't Cal fire the kid?

This is the same stuff we've been hearing for the past 2 or 3 years or whatever it's been now. We've never heard the other side of the story. Cal airing his dirty laundry on a website isn't going to help him get a lawyer and prove his case in court, and in fact might be one reason why he still hasn't gone to court over this.

For me, all this drama is one reason I've stayed away from buying more of these products, as quality as the ones I bought years ago have been. I thought the drama had faded away over the years, but apparently not.


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## Oktavius (Nov 8, 2006)

Let's Roll said:


> I came on here to straighten up some facts and was attacked. If you read my posts, I said I feel sorry for those who had to wait all those years. So because of their past history that did not affect me, I should just rule them out? If you believe in past history, what if Cal's story is true: https://www.1upusahistory.com/
> 
> How about all the customer's who've purchased a 1up rack after this came out? Are they in the wrong for supporting a company with that history?


Your "facts" were questioned. There is a difference in fact and opinion. You are confusing those two words. Your first two posts were an "apples to apples" comparison against an "inferior" product. Your comparison was built on your opinion of what is apples to apples so don't hold your opinion as fact for everyone.

If you feel like you are being attacked, take a step back and reevalute the situation.

Where did I say supporters of the company are wrong?


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## Oktavius (Nov 8, 2006)

Rockadile said:


> Obviously the lingo Harold used was to indicate a significant price difference. I would consider a 31% price difference significant. What about when the introductory pricing ends and it goes up more...would that be significant then? Your rack is gonna cost more than all your bikes! Good thing you're gonna get in on the introductory pricing. I will anxiously await your feedback once you get the rack as I am not ruling it out entirely. I am just not willing to get caught up in the buy it now within 72 hours or the price goes up. I have a feeling this is gonna blow up in their face.


If the $368 is the 31%, that is almost what I spent ($400) on my "inferior" Yakima Dr Tray, haha.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Oktavius said:


> If the $368 is the 31%, that is almost what I spent ($400) on my "inferior" Yakima Dr Tray, haha.


Wow I feel supremely inferior.

Think I paid around $240 for my Kuat Transfer 2 with a 20% discount from Jensen. No it doesn't hold four bikes, nor does it cost $1,000+. I'm good.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Let's Roll said:


> blah blah blah


I've said why I'm posting here. Several times. The baggage that this rack carries with it is pretty heavy. You linked to a page with Cal's claims. He's airing his dirty laundry on a website, where he claims he has legal standing, and yet, he's not gone to court over these claims. Why? For one, I think he's a business idiot and allowed a lot of things to happen that he shouldn't have. But also, if he had the legal standing he claims he has, this should have been settled in court long ago. But it wasn't, and here we are. All that baggage means something. Tacking it on top of the most expensive comparable product (tray-style upright hitch mounted bicycle racks, regardless of the features) gets a big nope from me.

A "ton" is a vague statement. I used it intentionally. I wasn't digging up exact prices. I meant it to reflect a notable difference in price. And it does. I'm not double checking anyone's math, either, and if a 31% difference is correct, then that is precisely a TON different, and if the dollar amount is correct, it can buy you a whole other decent quality rack. That's absolutely not an insignificant difference. That's pretty major. "Ton" is not out of line in this context.

I see you don't like my opinions. While I see the convenience of being able to carry only one bike, I'm sure as f*ck not going to pay more to be able to do that. I'll just put 1 bike on a less expensive 2 bike rack. The added convenience is pretty minuscule in the grand scheme of things. That's why it's silly to continue to harp on that. 4 bike platform racks are big and unwieldy. Put them on a lighter duty car or SUV and the rear end of the vehicle sags and it messes with your handling and visibility. The thing hangs so far back that it becomes more difficult to back up your vehicle. Lots of people with big hitch racks back up into things, and there's a reason for that. I'll probably never buy a platform hitch rack that carries more than 2 bikes. I'm not the only person who feels that way. The growing popularity of multi-bike racks that are vertical is a testament to that. No, those racks are not perfect.

There are plenty of other ways to deal with additional bikes. Different style hitch racks, roof racks, maybe even inside the vehicle (especially with small kids bikes), bed of a pickup truck, and so on.

As for my comments on markets - seriously? Unless you're privy to 1up's sales numbers and supply chain, you don't know if they're being 100% truthful about that statement, or if they're using that statement to simplify a complex situation. My bet is that it's a complex situation and that simple statement addresses what it needs to without going into unnecessary details. What I do know is that most shops around me have some stock on high end bikes and parts. Some things are sold out, but that happens this time of year, anyway. Summertime is always sell-down mode on older product, while it takes time for the new stuff to get produced and delivered.

What's new is that entry level and midlevel stuff started selling out months ago because people were home and bored, and cycling (among other outdoor activities) was touted as being a safer alternative. Some things had an increase in demand. Some things were selling at the same rates, but factory shutdowns meant that replenishment wasn't happening fast enough. Some things (like TP) sold out because before COVID, demand was split between commercial and residential portions of the market, and business shutdowns after COVID pushed more demand onto the residential market. The overall demand for TP didn't change, but demand shifted. Everything is complex and fluid right now. What's true for one industry probably isn't true for another. What's true for one product probably isn't true for another. What's true for one company isn't true for another. You can't assume that just because some bikes and some manufacturers saw a rise in demand, that such holds true everywhere. When it comes to manufacturing, production slowed for most things because factories either shut down completely or reduced staffing to allow for physical distancing.

The result is the same for the consumer (no product to buy), which is why you don't see complex explanations of why there's no product in stock. In the big picture, it doesn't matter. But you can't use that and say that a brand new product that's priced well above everything else will be successful because there's automagically more demand and assume that the sales will just fall in their lap.


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

Bike racks are now often selling out regardless of brand and price. I've seen it for Thule, Rockymounts, Yakima, 1UpUSA (as noted), etc.

It's bad for consumers, but they can all be priced higher if demand is outstripping supply especially during some of the worse economic conditions since the Great Depression. Nobody can claim it's doomed if everything is selling out regardless of price - did anyone take econ 101?

T2 XT Pro (also Apex, didn't check other models):


> HEADS UP: Shipping on this product may be delayed.
> 
> Due to COVID-19 supply chain disruptions and overwhelming demand, Thule is experiencing delays. Be advised, all authorized retailers are out of stock. By ordering now with Morris 4x4 Center, you'll lock in the guaranteed lowest price and prioritized delivery as soon as more stock arrives.
> 
> This item is excluded from all sales and promotions.


https://www.morris4x4center.com/thule-t2-pro-xt-2-hitch-bike-carrier-black.html


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

syadasti said:


> Bike racks are now often selling out regardless of brand and price. I've seen it for Thule, Rockymounts, Yakima, 1UpUSA (as noted), etc.
> 
> It's bad for consumers, but they can all be priced higher if demand is outstripping supply especially during some of the worse economic conditions since the Great Depression. Nobody can claim it's doomed if everything is selling out regardless of price - did anyone take econ 101?
> 
> ...


you still can't assume that a new product with years of baggage being sold by a newly formed company is going to succeed.


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

Harold said:


> you still can't assume that a new product with years of baggage being sold by a newly formed company is going to succeed.


I didn't say it was guaranteed, but you must have failed economics if you think price is a problem right now which is abundantly clear to anyone paying attention. Bike rack inventory is at record lows across the industry including similar high-end racks like 1Up's newer Equip-D which in some ways is inferior to the original 1Up.


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## CycleKrieg (Dec 19, 2013)

Let's Roll said:


> I came on here to straighten up some facts and was attacked. If you read my posts, I said I feel sorry for those who had to wait all those years. So because of their past history that did not affect me, I should just rule them out? If you believe in past history, what if Cal's story is true: https://www.1upusahistory.com/
> 
> How about all the customer's who've purchased a 1up rack after this came out? Are they in the wrong for supporting a company with that history?


This was discussed before, I'm not sure you saw it. I'll summarize my thoughts on it for you. I'm in MN and involved in a lot of MN/WI bike circles. This is important to know for the next part. Cal has a reputation in bike circles as sort of the "absent minded professor". He also has the reputation of being upset at his own failures and can be a bit of a "blame storm" at times. If you read the story at the link you provided, you see all 3 traits at once. No inventor/owner should allow an employee to control that much of their IP. No lawyer is going to go along with the opposition council unless that other council is right. Its not someone else's fault if you didn't save the money you made on your thing.

The new rack has to stand on its merits when it finally appears. Just like the new racks from Saris and others that use similar tire holding as the original 1Up rack. There are a lot of reasons why a person might choose one rack over another. Cost, history or personnel preference.

As to being attacked, I think it has to do with how you came rolling in to a discussion with a lot of history. When I first read your comments, my first thought was, "Gee, how much cocaine & hookers did Cal buy for this guy?" That attitude combined with suggesting everyone is wrong if they don't think this rack will bring peace to the Middle East and cure cancer doesn't go over well with a community that is frustrated with the vaporware this rack has been. Just sayin'.


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## jimglassford (Jun 17, 2018)

Cyclekrieg - Bravo. Now that you have identified it, I can see the absent minded professor in Cal. Everything else you said was well worded. I see the foundation for the next Governor of Minnesota in you.


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## Dr Evil (Sep 20, 2015)

Well, at least this conversation with Harold is increasing your post count.:winker:


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## Rockadile (Jun 27, 2005)

Dr Evil said:


> Well, at least this conversation with Harold is increasing your post count.:winker:


Me, too.


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## Rockadile (Jun 27, 2005)

These personal attacks don’t help your argument.


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## Dr Evil (Sep 20, 2015)

Let's Roll said:


> He's not? Didnt see you mention any of the remarks he said to me as personal attacks. Seems like there's a lot of forum bias going round these parts.
> 
> And I'm glad he's helped you. He should be able to; based on his post count it doesn't appear he has many responsibilities and may even be living with his parents still. I'd also caution things he's said to you because he doesn't sound so knowledgeable to me. Although he sure tries to talk like he does..


Nope, he's not for a second time. IMHO there is a difference between the back and forth banter between you two and the "Not surprised you only could afford a Kuat 2.0 due to an insurance claim based on your personality." That was a personal dig that wasn't necessary. The comments I quoted from you above also don't help your case either. A little heavy on the "tude" me thinks. Don't know why it is so difficult to agree to disagree and move on. Oh what a tangled web we weave.

edit: I went back and read the posts from you both and came to this conclusion. The reason why I didn't mention any of the remarks he said to you as personal attacks is because I didn't see any that were.:thumbsup:


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## Oktavius (Nov 8, 2006)

Rockadile said:


> You are really making it hard to believe you are not from QuikRStuff,or maybe even Cal, himself, as you are awfully defensive, in general.


I'm just going to stop replying to him. He has an axe to grind and isn't going to be open to other's opinions.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

As an uninvolved observer but a huge connoisseur of grown men slapfighting on the Internet, I think Let’s Roll has won this battle.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Blatant said:


> As an uninvolved observer but a huge connoisseur of grown men slapfighting on the Internet, I think Let's Roll has won this battle.


how do you think?

because I stepped back when the hair pulling started?


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## Let's Roll (Jul 7, 2020)

Dr Evil said:


> Bias lenses. That's a good one. I call 'em like I see 'em. I don't post much on here as you can see by my start date/post count and have no relationship with Harold nor have I ever PM'd him about anything. "Whenever someone rolls in something nicer than theirs, it attracts haters like harold who need to justify their choices." How hoity toity of you. Another example of your issue. I was nothing but respectful in my comments and because I don't see things your way all of the sudden I'm biased. You're don't like my opinion if it doesn't agree with yours. How liberal and tolerant of you. Now we know our true colors.:nono:


I've got nothing against you either and have enjoyed some of your comments. The truth is, that's how the subconscious mind work - you're not aware of it. BTW, that comment was made for one member only, please go back and reread the post.


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## Dr Evil (Sep 20, 2015)

Let's Roll said:


> The truth is, that's how the subconscious mind work - you're not aware of it.


You're not going to send me a bill for your analysis I hope.


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## Dr Evil (Sep 20, 2015)

Let's Roll said:


> BTW, that comment was made for one member only, please go back and reread the post.


My reading comprehension is just fine thanks. I knew that. I just didn't think it was appropriate regardless of who it was for that's all.


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## Let's Roll (Jul 7, 2020)

Dr Evil said:


> You're not going to send me a bill for your analysis I hope.


Haha, good attitude :thumbsup:


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## Let's Roll (Jul 7, 2020)

Dr Evil said:


> My reading comprehension is just fine thanks. I knew that. I just didn't think it was appropriate regardless of who it was for that's all.


This I can respect. Maybe I crossed the line and it was uncalled for. At least I can admit and acknowledge that. Harold however, never once apologized for his assumptions, only continued to pile it on. I even mentioned very early on that perhaps we got off on the wrong foot with no acknowledgement of that either, just more continuation. You can see how I could become frustrated with his know it all attitude. Maybe he feels like his OG status means more than it should and new upstarts like me should just shut up and listen :nono:


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## ATLRB (Sep 12, 2014)

Did anyone actually receive the email with the purchase link? I got the email that started this thread but nothing since. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Oktavius (Nov 8, 2006)

ATLRB said:


> Did anyone actually receive the email with the purchase link? I got the email that started this thread but nothing since.


I received the email. From what I gather, they sent out the invite to the first 50 people on the email list. They will be sending out invites in groups as they work through their email list.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Let's Roll said:


> Shhh, don't go telling that to little ole Let's Roll now. He's a bit defensive and sensitive. Apparently he knows it all and is privy on everything. His opinions are all that matters and refutes everything brought up in defense of his argument.


Project much?


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## BujiBiker (Jun 7, 2019)

I’ve seen this exact same thing in the archery industry. New companies startup, get someone to shill the product and give glorious reviews. I’m new here (sort of) started in 99 or 00. I’ve been on forums of all kinds since then. 

Nobody is going to spend 2/3 the money on a rack that they spent on their bike. Unless they plan on a major upgrade in the near future it’s not happening. Not saying the new rack isn’t the greatest thing since sliced bread. However, in the current climate, low to mid range products are sold out for the new “hobby” which may not last. Harold is right. I bought my monorail single a week before they sold out. It’s a third the cost of the rack in question. The supply chain(mostly China) is backed up just like everywhere else. Labor, material, parts shipping is all behind. 

Combine that with new unknown, and questionable product/details is highly suspect. It’s not that hard to figure out. Even if you have the greatest product in the world you have to earn customer’s trust. Pricing over the competition with no history isn’t going to work.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Wow, you guys are a bunch of pansies. 

Let's Roll is right, this rack is the bestest. Best thing since sliced bread....sliced.....breeeeaaaaad.
Have you guys tried to make a samich with unsliced bread? Don't, it doesn't work. Waste of bread to be unsliced. 

Anyways, back to this rack, yes, its a great rack. I haven't received mine yet, but I can tell its great. Do I have anything to back up my word of how great it is without even trying it? Nope. I just say it is. BTW, I'm not a shill, Cal nor the new company didn't pay me, they just promised me a lifetime of sliced bread.

Lets Roll, ignore all these shmucks, they're just jealous of our lifetime of sliced bread. Those who don't have sliced bread, they're just poor and they can't afford sliced bread.

mmmmmmm, sliced bread


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## jimglassford (Jun 17, 2018)

I remember my sister purchased a garden tractor made by Ingersoll-Rand. She chose this since it had a lifetime warranty. 5 years later, the hydrostatic transmission failed. She took it in to the dealer and the dealer no longer sold IR tractors since IR stopped manufacturing garden tractors. No more bread, no compensation.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

Great story, bro.


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## noshortcuts (Nov 29, 2005)

So... even though I asked them to take me off the endless waiting list, I'm still on it. After years, they say, "here it comes! ... "just send us money" and so I inquire, for fun...

"Sounds good except you don't say where you are with manufacturing nor when a a paying person will actually receive the rack. If the waiting is over, I need more details about what that really means ... b4 sending money."

Their answer was honest sounding yet very vague, IMO. To me it looks a lot like an Indiegogo campaign response that is positive and yet confirms the wait can continue indefinitely.

"Valid question!

The *first "order now" emails* went out to our* first 50 waitlisters* and those orders are *expected to ship* out in 2 weeks. After that, *shipping is a function of how many pre-orders we get and then how many machines we can lease to mass produce* these bad boys even faster! While our first batch *might *be small for quality control reasons, we are *planning to ramp up* production big time *if pre-orders are strong*. We *may *get to your position faster than anticipated, so don't get bummed out quite yet 

Feel free to reach back out a little later and *we may be able to provide an estimate when production is more consistent*."


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## Dr Evil (Sep 20, 2015)

noshortcuts said:


> so... Even though i asked them to take me off the endless waiting list, i'm still on it. After years, they say, "here it comes! ... "just send us money" and so i inquire, for fun...
> 
> "sounds good except you don't say where you are with manufacturing nor when a a paying person will actually receive the rack. If the waiting is over, i need more details about what that really means ... B4 sending money."
> 
> ...


Certainly inspires confidence lol.


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## Oktavius (Nov 8, 2006)

They responded to my email by creating an FAQ post on Facebook. Stuff that they still haven't updated on their own website. Drives me crazy when you have to go to their website, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter to get more details.

https://www.facebook.com/quikrstuff

They did say the warranty is lifetime on manufacturing defects. They also informed me that I could preorder with my credit card to retain the ability to easily cancel my preorder. :/


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Oktavius said:


> They responded to my email by creating an FAQ post on Facebook. Stuff that they still haven't updated on their own website. Drives me crazy when you have to go to their website, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter to get more details.


Good lord, how hard is this for people to understand? The website is where you put your main information, in a searchable, centralized location. With social media, you refer back to your website. Social media is very good for sharing relevant short-term information and stoking interest in your product. But information that needs to be searchable? Put that $hit on your website, for chrissakes!

Sorry...not a marketing professional or anything, but I struggled with a mtb org who had a bunch of people doing their own little things everywhere and so some info would be on Facebook. Some buried in their forum. And none of it on the main website. I set up the website to make it easier for leadership to use, so members and potential members could learn about the org, what it's done, and what its plans were, but nobody would actually use it. We had lots of people who refused to use FB or the forum because they hated those formats for various reasons.


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## Let's Roll (Jul 7, 2020)

Some nice "vaporware" making it's way to customer's hands now: 




Time will tell on longevity/reliability of the rack and company, but it's hard to argue with some of the improvements made to the original 1up design.

Also, I wanted to address a comment made by a poster several times on these forums about throwing kids bikes inside the car. Clearly this poster doesn't speak from personal experience. First of all, kids bikes may be small but if they get ridden in the dirt, I can't imagine feeling good about throwing a muddy bike inside after every ride. Secondly, any parent with a kid knows that kids grow fast. A 14" bike this year becomes a 16" the following and a 20" not soon after. Before you know it, they are riding a 26+" and those don't exactly go inside easily. Always better to plan for the future, IMO.


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## CycleKrieg (Dec 19, 2013)

Let's Roll said:


> Some nice "vaporware" making it's way to customer's hands now:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone was saying the improvements weren't there, just that it didn't exist in the wild yet. Most of us pointed to years of vaporware and some... lets call them twists and turns... in the story of getting the rack to market. Its great that this rack appears to be out in the wild now. But that doesn't negate the history and bad taste it left in a lot of people's mouth.

Speaking as a guy who used to get full sized 29er and fat bikes in a Subaru WRX wagon, its totally doable in most cars if your seats fold flat. In fact, there are racks designed for that very purpose (Veloboy, etc.).

Don't get me wrong, hitch racks (and especially the tire touch kind like 1UP and others) are way to go.


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## dgdixon (Feb 11, 2004)

Wow, this thread is long on speculative opinions and economic theory. My rack arrived this week to replace my 12 year old Thule tray rack. Beautifully put together and well thought out. Having done my own machining work I can appreciate the effort and quality of construction. No time to use it much yet but happy to report back after it's broken in.


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## llivingstone (Aug 27, 2007)

Wow. What a read. I just finished the original thread from 2017 and now this one. As a bonus I read the 1up history web page. What a piece of work. Thanks everybody for the hours of entertainment. I feel like there should be a Netflix Doc done on this whole thing. I'm glad people are starting to see these things actually produced (probably not as glad as Cal!) and getting use out of them. They look well made and the improvements are nice. I'm still rocking my original super duty 2" 2+1 platform setup from probably 15 years ago and have no problems (at least not what I would consider a problem). I just wanted to share a couple points about the drawbacks of the overall design concept.

I had always envisioned getting a 4th platform if the family got bigger. But after having run 3 platforms I can say it probably wouldn't work that well. First, the weight would be up around 100lbs just for the rack. This will be tough on tongue weight and handling for most smaller vehicles when you factor in effect of leverage. Even if the Mach 2 is lighter, this is still a significant amount of weight that will affect handling and backing up.

I drive a lifted 2000 4Runner and could get away with the weight issue except...the ability to drop the platforms and access the rear hatch will be compromised. As it is with 3 racks I need 2 people to handle the weight bringing it back up without straining. Also, its hanging so far back with 3 racks that when you drop it the last platform is practically touching the ground. Even with the angling of the racks, I don't see a 4th one not hitting the ground. And this is with a lifted truck. With a small SUV or car? You'll be hitting the ground with 3 racks.

Also, there is so much leverage at the back of 4 racks you will probably bend or otherwise warp the locking plate cutouts of the side plates if any external pressure is applied up or down on the last bike. I already did it with 3 bikes and couldn't use that position until I bent it ever so slightly back again so that the locking bar would fit back in.

No design is a panacea and I still am really happy with my setup given its limitations. Right now the lightest bike sits on the 3rd platform to help with my issues. 

I hope that bit of info helps people when considering going all-in on either of these designs. 

Cheers.


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## Oktavius (Nov 8, 2006)

llivingstone said:


> Wow. What a read. I just finished the original thread from 2017 and now this one. As a bonus I read the 1up history web page. What a piece of work. Thanks everybody for the hours of entertainment. I feel like there should be a Netflix Doc done on this whole thing. I'm glad people are starting to see these things actually produced (probably not as glad as Cal!) and getting use out of them. They look well made and the improvements are nice. I'm still rocking my original super duty 2" 2+1 platform setup from probably 15 years ago and have no problems (at least not what I would consider a problem). I just wanted to share a couple points about the drawbacks of the overall design concept.
> 
> I had always envisioned getting a 4th platform if the family got bigger. But after having run 3 platforms I can say it probably wouldn't work that well. First, the weight would be up around 100lbs just for the rack. This will be tough on tongue weight and handling for most smaller vehicles when you factor in effect of leverage. Even if the Mach 2 is lighter, this is still a significant amount of weight that will affect handling and backing up.
> 
> ...


There are extra considerations when going to 3 or 4 bike racks. As you noted, it gets really heavy and that can defeat the ability of using the tilt feature to access rear hatches.

Also, vehicles and hitches are rated for trailer loads, not for unsupported loads (bike racks, luggage trays, etc). Have never seen any good calculations or guidance on determining safe rack weight and distance limits. Tongue weight limits are static loading and what we want is really dynamic loading with moments factored in. Too lazy to do the FEA, haha.

Should always mount the heaviest bike closest to the vehicle with the lightest bike furthest away. Every bike rack manufacturer lists this not even factoring in the tilt feature.

There are swing out attachments. They are weight limited and stick the racks out even further which means even more increased loading on the hitch receiver. Think I've read some comments posted in other threads on how well they swing out when fully loaded so something to look into.

https://www.1up-usa.com/product/rakattach/
https://www.thule.com/en-us/bike-rack/hitch-bike-racks/thule-access-_-9037

To play with numbers, Mach2 single rack is 32 lbs and each add-on is 22 lbs. So four bike configuration is 98 lbs of rack. RakAttach is limited to 275 lbs which means that 177 lbs of bikes (44.25 lbs per bike). The Thule Access is rated to 350 lbs which means 252 lbs of bikes (63 lbs per bike).

So say there are 4 bikes at 30 lbs each, the swingout attachment weights 55 lbs, and the whole 4 place Mach2, then I would have 273 lbs hanging on the hitch. My 2004 Grand Cherokee has a Class IV hitch but tongue weight limited to 750 lbs (which is more like Class III). Think I would be comfortable with that on my vehicle but I've seen people carry four bikes on 1 1/4" hitches and that is super sketchy.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

That long lever of the 4-bike platform rack really plays havoc with tongue weight ratings and makes it obvious that those ratings don't tell the whole story.

It doesn't visually appear to be an issue for vehicles like trucks and larger SUV's where the tongue rating is MUCH higher than the load on the bike rack (especially when you're talking 2x or higher). But in smaller cars and SUV's where a 4 bike platform rack with 4 adult-sized bikes pushes the vehicle's tongue weight rating, the droop in the rear of the vehicle can be pretty bad (a simple visual illustration of excessive loading). Even though the total weight is less than the tongue weight rating, the vehicle is overloaded because of how that load is distributed. This seems especially the case when you're looking at the weight of the passengers and their gear on top of that.

I also see this overloading when people put those cargo carriers in their hitch. Usually they do that because the cargo area of the vehicle is full and they don't have room for the cooler and whatever else they've got crammed into the plastic tote(s) sharing the platform. It's not that the load on the platform is over the tongue weight, but the overall load the vehicle is carrying exceeds the vehicle's total capacity. And so many cargo platforms loaded poorly, resulting in them twisting permanently because the load is not centered. They'd be better off with a small utility trailer. But then they'd probably load that wrong, too.


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## dgdixon (Feb 11, 2004)

I just got the 2 bike Quikrack as I’ve had the Thule 2 add on before and know the limitations of a 4 bike rack, even though my van can handle the weight. I already have room for 2 bikes inside also. One really nice thing on a Sprinter is that the rear doors clear the double rack without having to tilt it.


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## hoffsta (Aug 17, 2010)

Lol. I’ve been on Cal’s waiting list since 2017. I finally received a link to actually order the rack with my real money...and...they expect to ship it in six months!!!! Are you kidding me. They made a big fuss about how units were actually shipping. Seems like there were a small handful of racks available and now they are completely out again. Come on.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

I plan on buying one. 

Well as long as they make a 2.5” receiver version that uses a standard hitch pin. 

Per an email, they do plan on offering this, but are concentrating on shipping back orders first. 

I can wait. I have a few years before I really need more than a single tray rack. Currently I run a 1up, but the Mach 2 seems to solve all my issues with the old version. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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