# Does everybody where a Helmet all the time?



## Brandontw (May 5, 2006)

Just wondering if everyone wears a helmet all the time no matter what, or if you go without it once in a while?

I know its dumb as ****, but sometimes i like the wind through my hair... call me crazy. 

I wear the helmet 95 percent of the time, but sometimes i just don't. Iv'e wrecked a couple helmets while they were on my head too, i'm not sure what compels me to risk it, i just like it sometimes.


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## Method of Rhythm (Nov 20, 2007)

Always. Unless its up the driveway to put my bike away.


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## Dangeruss (Jan 24, 2006)

yes - all the time.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

I where a what when and wear all the time?

Can you repeet the question?

I think I have brian damage from my last hailmetless crash lashed thyme.


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## Nocturnus (Mar 28, 2005)

On the trails, all the time, on the street, never.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I don't wear one when I'm just dinking around the neighborhood.


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## Frozenspokes (May 26, 2004)

lidarman said:


> I where a what when and wear all the time?
> 
> Can you repeet the question?
> 
> I think I have brian damage from my last hailmetless crash lashed thyme.


Funny post, and good marketing. I would have never looked in this thread if the OP had spelled WEAR correctly in the title. Notice that it is spelled correctly in the body.

Still a funny post though.


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## Cata1yst (Dec 27, 2007)

Nat said:


> I don't wear one when I'm just dinking around the neighborhood.


+1 but if im gonna do some freeride BMXing then yeah i put on a lid


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

Frozenspokes said:


> Funny post, and good marketing. I would have never looked in this thread if the OP had spelled WEAR correctly in the title. Notice that it is spelled correctly in the body.
> 
> Still a funny post though.


It's is? Not in the first sentence...maybe the third paragraph.


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## GT2005 (Mar 23, 2005)

Where a helmet? There a helmet, I be wearing a helmet on my head all the time every time (well, almost, like 99.999% of the time). Yes, I wear a bike helmet when riding a bike. Good question.  -GT2005


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## PAmtbiker (Feb 2, 2005)

um yeah... unless I'm just screwing around in the yard/neighborhood..


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

PAmtbiker said:


> um yeah... unless I'm just screwing around in the yard/neighborhood..


I know I sound like the insurance company, but most accidents occur in your yard or neighborhood....called the 'hold my beer' syndrome.'


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

helmet, always. well, not if i'm riding 3 blocks away to the store. although given the traffic around here, thats probably pretty stupid - concrete is harder than my head.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

lidarman said:


> I know I sound like the insurance company, but most accidents occur when your yard or neighborhood....called the 'hold my beer' syndrome.'


When my yard or neighborhood do what?

This thread seems oddly familiar. Where's Skeeter with his day-in-the-life-of-Skeeter photo journal?


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## Brandontw (May 5, 2006)

Nat said:


> I don't wear one when I'm just dinking around the neighborhood.


Yeah that usually my policy too, i really rarely go helmetless on the trail.

But once I got really drunk, and went out riding helmetless, and ate **** in the middle of the street for almost no reason. I think i came real close to bustin' my noggin on that one.



Impy said:


> helmet, always. well, not if i'm riding 3 blocks away to the store. although given the traffic around here, thats probably pretty stupid - concrete is harder than my head.


Dude you gotta upgrade your head! I got one thats just a little harder than concrete but a little softer than rocks.(couldn't afford the one that was harder than rocks AND concrete)


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## icegeek (Feb 16, 2004)

If I'm just at work in my cube or sleeping and stuff then the X/C lid is fine, but if I'm like showering or taking a dump and stuff, it's FF-all the way.

Can never be too sure, you know, when you're like taking a dump and stuff.


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## Brandontw (May 5, 2006)

icegeek said:


> If I'm just at work in my cube or sleeping and stuff then the X/C lid is fine, but if I'm like showering or taking a dump and stuff, it's FF-all the way.
> 
> Can never be too sure, you know, when you're like taking a dump and stuff.


What?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Brandontw said:


> What?


You had to be there.


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## HTR4EVR (Jun 15, 2007)

I'm wearing my helmet right now ....:headphones:


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## Acme54321 (Oct 8, 2003)

My Avatar > Yours


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## Brandontw (May 5, 2006)

Acme54321 said:


> My Avatar > Yours


aww now i have to change mine.

I have just used this avatar for years over at another forum, so i thought i'd use it here too, i didn't know you had a similar one.

But how did you get yours animated, it woulnt let me put my animated on up, so i just froze a frame of it.


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## V.P. (Aug 26, 2007)

I use a helmet 70% of the time, never when I do light freeride. I know, its stupid.


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## Dom87SS (Mar 14, 2008)

after reading some back posts im definatly wearing mine from here on out. ive never worn one ever while BMX or MTB'ing. but i recently purchased one with my new MTB, so i might as well strap it on. i dont want or need to end up worse in the head


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## Bike Parts (Feb 25, 2008)

I could never ride w bike without a helmet - it would be like walking down the street naked for me!


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## Hip (Feb 11, 2008)

I wear mine unless I am just cruising around the neighborhood. I never wear one on my cruiser...just when I am off road. There is a thread somewhere of the dude who wrecked in his own neighborhhod. He was busted up with a drain tube sticking out of his head and what not...


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

As Lidarman said, most accidents happen when you're just "foolin' around". Wear mine all the time; commuting, MTBing, road riding _(especially on the road with all the tools who have licenses)._


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Technically, no.*

I've ridden a beach cruiser on the boardwalk in the summer without a helmet. Yup, sometimes the wind in the hair is worth the risk of falling down a 5 mph or so and hitting my head on the soft sand.

I'm almost 59, and just about no one wore a helmet until about 20 years ago and we did some pretty insane things as kids. Young BMX and Dirt Jumpers today have nothing on their parents (or grand parents!) and no one wore helmets in the 50's and 60's.

As for serious riding, which is 99% of anything I do other than the boardwalk, yes, I always wear a helmet.

Anyway, its too late for me to die young. Best that could be said if I died tomorrow was that I went ahead of my time. 
:thumbsup:


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

*my theory: my brain will get me further in life than my cycling*

case in point: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/03/health/main3992299.shtml?source=search_story

so, yes, i always where [sic] my helmet.

rt


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## chequamagon (Oct 4, 2006)

I wear a helmet when I am where it is required, but I never know where it is required to wear.


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## Hip (Feb 11, 2008)

Rev Bubba said:


> Young BMX and Dirt Jumpers today have nothing on their parents (or grand parents!)


I highly doubt that....actually...There is no way in hell ANYONE is doing what is being done today. I remember when a back flip was part of the show at the Ringling Bros. Circus...now if you cant do a double backflip or a no hander backflip...its not even a big deal.


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## crashtestdummy (Jun 18, 2005)

*"Does everybody where a Helmet all the time?"*

He!! No, they are very uncomfortable to sleep in.

My helmet goes on before I get on my bike.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

crashtestdummy said:


> *"Does everybody where a Helmet all the time?"*
> He!! No, they are very uncomfortable to sleep in.


Not for everyone:
http://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=234020


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

*Huh?*

Ah, the old "no way in Hell anyone was doing...." Maybe most people weren't doing things like that but it is pretty presumptuous to say no one ever did anything like that. I'm sure someone did and without a helmet which was the point of the whole argument.

Learn some history. In the 1890's or early 1900's Major Taylor set some track records that are only about 1/2 second off of current records for a bicycle without the benefit of modern light weight frames.

Just because you did not see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. No, I did not do it but did witness some crazy rides off of roof tops and long downhill skateboard rides on wooden boards with metal wheels and no helmets (yeah, I did that).

Fifty years ago there was not a camera to record every stunt so it could be posted on the web. That doesn't mean someone didn't do it.


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## Ray Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

Trails and street always, but we have miles and miles of flat smooth rail trails and its nice not wearing one.

On a side note, the rail trails are filled with moms/dads and little kids on training wheels, dogs, elderly, walkers, joggers..... BUT there are also a few wannabe roadies doing 35mph+ and passing with no or little warning, I admit I have thought about hauling out the 45 pound beach cruiser + motorcycle leathers and helmet and going Thunder Dome more than a few times.....

Ray



Brandontw said:


> Just wondering if everyone wheres a helmet all the time no matter what, or if you go without it once in a while?
> 
> I know its dumb as ****, but sometimes i like the wind through my hair... call me crazy.
> 
> I wear the helmet 95 percent of the time, but sometimes i just don't. Iv'e wrecked a couple helmets while they were on my head too, i'm not sure what compels me to risk it, i just like it sometimes.


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## tomk96 (Nov 10, 2004)

always except when just riding down the block adjusting th shifters and such. there are too many people around that are clueless to their surroundings. i'm more concerned that somebody else will cause me to crash than my own doings, so no matter where i ride or how easy i plan to go, i put on my helmet.


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## knives out (Nov 23, 2007)

On hot days I'll sometimes remove the skid lid on long, non-technical climbs. Other than that I always have a helmet on.


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## Jim Beam (Dec 22, 2003)

Bike Parts said:


> I could never ride w bike without a helmet - it would be like walking down the street naked for me!


 So what's wrong with that?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Sometimes I don't wear it when I'm showering.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

Make sure you use high quality helmets because your life can depend on it. And yes, one lapse could leave a lifetime of being reminded of the mistake.


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## lionrider (Mar 20, 2008)

I always wear a helmet, even around campus. I have yet to bounce my head off of something when I crash, but I know at some point it is inevitable. Be prepared.
--lionrider


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## wonky57 (Dec 1, 2007)

He he he ha HA HA ha


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

Getting serious here. I see lots of people who don't wear helmets while commuting. I do. I was riding to work last winter, rounded a corner and hit some black ice. Of course I fell, but the kicker was, when I fell, my head hit a two foot high rock wall. I bashed my helmet good and it even stunned me for a while. If the wall wasn't there, I probably wouldn't have even hit my head.

Surely if I had not been wearing the helmet, I would have been heading to the hospital.

That single aversion was worth all the years I have suffered wearing one to work...actually it's not that bad.


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## Psycho Mike (Apr 2, 2006)

If I'm on two wheels, I've got a helmet on. I have the gravel rash to prove that even the well known, close to home "easy" stuff can get you and all it takes is a momentary lapse in concentration.


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## poet (Feb 12, 2008)

*DH armor*

I started riding with a white Bell helmet that had three vents. Damn thing was heavy--I remember consciously deciding not to wear it on a ride because my head felt funny taking it off after a long ride (and staying upright!). Well, like most, it took someone else's accident to bring home the fact that "if it happened to them, it could happen..." We saw that in the post just recently, at least.

I trashed a helmet by carrying it in my hand, no handing the bike, rolling into work. I hit a bump, and with hands on the bars I keeled over at about one mile an hour. Absolutely all of my weight came down on the helmet in my hand and it split lit it was nothing. It saved my hand but I rolled onto my elbow and broke the tip of my radius. I'm still dealing with it, after eight months. I wonder if DH armor would look weird on a commute? :skep:


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

On the "we didn't start wearing helmets till recently" thing, I sure wish that I had, prob would have a much better memory now instead of this crap shoot I call memory - _before I was 5, I cracked my head open twice and before 10 had had prob 3 or 4 good concussions._ Never wore a helmet till I started MTBing 4 years ago, so even when I was in my early 30's I managed a concussion getting back on the ol skate board.


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## o'~o martin (Apr 4, 2008)

I wore one occasionally until I went sailing over the handle bars and broke it in half. Now I always wear one riding the trails.


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## Mattypo1 (Feb 16, 2008)

Hells yes!!!!! if i dont i got to pay $20 to my team if i get guaght without it!!!!!


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## CarlS (Feb 25, 2008)

I have trouble cutting holes in the the helmets that I buy to fit my horns through so I usually don't wear one.


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## HandyMan (Feb 25, 2008)

I never ride my motorcycle or bicycle without a helmet... I've been in plenty of wrecks, and trashed plenty of helmets to remind myself why I'm wearing it.

Next time you think about riding without one... remember: you never expect to get into an accident, but they still happen, despite how 'easy' or 'careful' you ride. You can't control the trail conditions, or other people (especially cars when riding the street). If some dip **** decides to sideswipe you with his hummer while pulling into his driveway and you decided not to wear a helmet because 'its just around the neighborhood'... game over.

For me its easy, If I EVER consider riding without one, I just think of how some of my wrecked helmets look... and ask myself if thats how i want my head to look.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

Only when racing. But I'm in a bit of a slightly unusual situation. Most people should probably wear them most of the time, yes.


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## TrikeKid (Sep 1, 2006)

I didn't have a lid I liked until just recently so I was bucketless for a long time. I still don't wear one if I'm riding the klunker because I never get more aggressive than easy paths and dirt roads with it. I wear my former moto helmet now when I'm jumping. It saved me today and I was pretty fearless because I didn't worry about face planting.


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## General Hickey (Jan 6, 2008)

Around town, no. On the trails, usually - I don't wear one if I'm just out for a roll.


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## Trimen1000 (Mar 28, 2008)

The only time I don't is when I'm going around the neighborhood, the chances of crashing are so low that there's no point. If it's major streets or any kind of trail then I do.

For streets the problem is not what you do, it's what the cars do. One of my friends probably would have gotten killed if he didn't wear a helmet while riding to school one day. Since he decided to start wearing a helmet a week before, he only ended up in the hospital with a concussion after being thrown over a car that hit him.


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## 4slomo (Jul 4, 2006)

I started wearing a helmet consistently when I began road racing in high school, if you can call those padded leather strap things we wore helmets (in the late 60's), so I guess that's about 40 years of helmet-hair. Over the years the helmets have improved and in this rider's case the hair has disappeared, but there still seems to be the same percentage of the riding population without a clue about how easy it is to take a hit. I've even seen people fall over doing a track stand (motionless) and hit their head. 

The funniest time was a guy that used a gas station restroom during a road ride pit stop, wearing his cleats, and the next thing he knows he's lost his footing on the smooth tile floor. He said if he hadn't been wearing his helmet when his head hit the floor, he would have passed out inside the locked door restroom. That was the defining incident for me, and I can probably count the times on one hand that I haven't worn my helmet riding since.


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## joe-gernaut (Sep 4, 2007)

The one time I forgot my helmet and opted to ride anyway I endo'd and broke my front tooth in half on a rock. Luckily, I turned my head at the last second or it could have been much worse. So, let's just say it was a hard lesson learned -- now I always wear a helmet unless I'm just messing around on the lawn.


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## 2ridealot (Jun 15, 2004)

Perfect world = 100% w/helmet every ride every time

Real world = 99% w/helmet off road
90% w/helmet on road


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

joe-gernaut said:


> The one time I forgot my helmet and opted to ride anyway I endo'd and broke my front tooth in half on a rock. Luckily, I turned my head at the last second or it could have been much worse. So, let's just say it was a hard lesson learned -- now I always wear a helmet unless I'm just messing around on the lawn.


I'm confused.

If you were wearing a helmet would you have not broken your tooth?

I got a chin impact concussion in 1986 and the doctor said I should be wearing a helmet. I was like, hitting my chin would not have mattered...especially since full face bike helmets didn't exist.


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## Trimen1000 (Mar 28, 2008)

Maybe he always wears a full face helmet all the time.


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## CEB (Mar 17, 2005)

Yes, except when "tuning and adjusting". Come to think of it, that may be the time the bike gives me up to the street. 

Just back from a visit to New Zealand. Seems to me it is the LAW there. Everyone, ALL the time. No exceptions when riding a bicycle. There are MANY people that travel by bike in NZ, very very rare to see one w/out helmet. If one is spotted, often overheard is "must be a tourist". Imagine that, in the land of serious CrAzY sports, they strap 'em on..... they must be on to something.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Yes*

Always


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## bigpedaler (Jan 29, 2007)

some of us -- like ME -- should not be seen naked, much less naked in public.

BTW, i can't remember the last time i got on the bike w/o my helmet...but i think it was sometime in '06.


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## adamantane (Jan 27, 2005)

long uphill climbs, no it's on the backpack..put on for dh of course


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## Glen Campbell (Oct 15, 2007)

Helmet? Hell Ya, I alway have mine on. In FACT I wont ride with any one if they dont have one, but no exuses I carry extra in my van all the time, three for that matter S, M and L.


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## Shytie (Feb 22, 2008)

*I need to wear a helmet all the time apparently...*

I'm 22 and ride with a helmet all the time. Didn't used to but, after some jack*** hit me with a big full coke cup as he drove by, I always wear one. That gave me a concussion, and 3 stitches to add to my pile o' head injuries. As a kid, some say I still am... but anyway, I had 8 concussion before I was 10, and over 75 stitches in my head. I've had 3 concussions with a helmet on, and once broke my jaw wearing a FF lid. Needless to say, I am the walking/talking/cluster**** your mom told you about. So yes, I wear a helmet all the time while riding and have now for five years.

BTW, anyone else feel like this is kinda like an AA meeting? Hi, my name is _________ and I've ridden with a helmet for ___ months/years.


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## lunna (Mar 12, 2008)

the main thing would be 
to make sure it remains a free country 
where you have the choice to decide to wear one or not


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## Glen Campbell (Oct 15, 2007)

True, this is a free country thats why we have a choice But Im not riding with some one with no helmet, thats my choice.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

lunna said:


> the main thing would be
> to make sure it remains a free country
> where you have the choice to decide to wear one or not


Bullsh*t. You don't have a choice, because your stupid choice to wear no helmet will affect those around you as well as us taxpayers that would rather the ambulance not cart you away when you made that choice to wear no helmet, but guess what? They have to provide medical service unless you can physically tell them not to, but even then they've spent the damn money to get out there to your sorry a$$. Unless you just die somewhere where no one finds your body untill 10 years after, it's pretty asanine to think that wearing a helmet is your choice and it won't affect others. I don't want my insurance premiums raised or the cost of health care raised because some idiot thinks he's too cool for school. No to mention your family members who will sue on your behalf after you're either dead or a vegitable.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

Yes. I do not want this. Neither do you. Sh!t happens, why pay with blood as a minimum or a debilitating injury or your life?










https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=398476


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## Glen Campbell (Oct 15, 2007)

*Wow,*

Now thats why I always wear a skid lid on my head.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

slocaus said:


> Yes. I do not want this. Neither do you. Sh!t happens, why pay with blood as a minimum or a debilitating injury or your life?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He is so lucky his flavor saver stayed in tact.


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## HTR4EVR (Jun 15, 2007)

I believe we had this discussion about helmets before. A helmet save my life, I don't have anything more to say about it. And that blood is so fake... :skep:


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## mtbman007 (Feb 1, 2004)

Always, I wouldn't be typing this now otherwise. They are lifesavers- saved mine.


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## joe-gernaut (Sep 4, 2007)

Guess I didn't describe the circumstances of my crash very well. Let's just say that if I had not used my arm to protect my skull, it might have been available to protect the rest of my face, and my tooth.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

I _always_ wear my helmet. No exceptions.


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## chocolate girl (Jan 5, 2005)

Always, no exceptions for me either. As a few others have responded...wouldn't be able to type this right now if I didn't. Has saved my life on 3 separate serious occasions. Personally, it upsets me when people joke about such a thing. Maybe it's just because they haven't been through what I have. I don't find any humor in it at all and take the issue very seriously.


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## seosamh (Mar 17, 2007)

only got my first helmet at the beginning of last year, never wore one for the 20odd years before (off and on) i'd been riding a bike before then, growing up in the 80's and 90's nobody ever really had helmets around here and it wasn't the normal thing to have one...will wear it now when i'm heading down hill on trails and that's really about it or if i'm about to do something stupid, tends to hang over my handbars at other times, or is left in the garage if i'm just going to the shops or a mates house or are out for a street run..


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## INCO (Mar 30, 2007)

I spent way too much money gettin' my brain educated and would rather not have to go back to school to learn how to tie my shoe laces because I didn't want to bother putting a helmet on. But that's just me.


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## airs0ft3r (Sep 2, 2007)

Yes, I wear it everywhere. I gotta say it feels good to wear one. The airflow that is directed is actually cooler than not wearing one.


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## TK422 (Apr 4, 2008)

I wear mine all the time when riding. I'm usually riding with the kids and I make them wear helmets also.


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## havnmonkey (Apr 22, 2007)

nope... I wear it on the trail... but tooling around in parking lots or short commutes, nope... my skull is babies candy!!! I have started to wear it more often on road rides though!


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## jaeman (Dec 16, 2007)

I always wear a helmet.


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## TrekJeff (Oct 12, 2006)

No, it was tough washing my hair with it on, I only wear it when riding my bike.:thumbsup:


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## verve825 (Mar 16, 2005)

Recently was in Santa Cruz for business, and, after a long morning of delays, parked at Wilder State Park and realized I didn't have my helmet. Stupidly, perhaps, I opted for my magic Vecchio's cap rather than going back, and spent the next 6 hours riding my a$$ off. I must admit- it felt great. Wouldn't do it again, maybe, but the cap is way more comfy...

jb


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

More of the same 99.8 % of the time. I will add though I never wore a helmet boarding or skiing until my boys got old enough to ski. Figured if I was going to insist on them wearing helmets I had better also. Now it is just part of my boarding outfit. My kids already have more helmets than I ever have owned. Ski/bike/lacrosse/baseball............endless


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## speedmetal (Feb 28, 2007)

When in the bike, always!


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## Mr Bacon Jr (Apr 2, 2008)

The question not IF you are going down, it's WHEN... Butt on bike = helmet on head. Period. 

Policy vindicated about 6 weeks ago when I went down hard on a quick, neighborhood ride. 13 stitches in my face, broken nose, shattered helmet, crushed wrist, and surgery to fix.


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## Brandontw (May 5, 2006)

I hardly ever wear my helmet when i am skiing, I just really dont like it for some reason.


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## ArmySlowRdr (Dec 19, 2003)

where a helmet--no I never where a helmet--I always know where mine is so I can be sure an wear it.


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## HTR4EVR (Jun 15, 2007)

ArmySlowRdr said:


> where a helmet--no I never where a helmet--I always know where mine is so I can be sure an wear it.


 Cool ...


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## Trimen1000 (Mar 28, 2008)

Despite all the criticism he used "where" for "wear" yet again.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

I wonder if Mark Weir will approve of this thread?


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## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

I wear one only when off roading.


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## jalopy jockey (Jun 7, 2007)

I got in trouble for not wearing my helmet today. I was demoing to my 4 yr old how to ride without training wheels. I ended up with his helmet perched on my head rocking the big 16 wheels. :eekster:


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## rich.grandzol (Sep 20, 2005)

My viewpoint is since I use my brain for absolutely everything I do in my life, I will take 5 seconds and put on a helmet. I always wear one on a bike or board. Oddly enough, I probably fall off my bike more when I am "fooling around" in the driveway or a yard than riding aggressive terrain like Whistler.

I also can't figure out bmx'ers and skaters....those dudes wreck hard! Why not try to prolong your career or life by wearing a helmet? I can't believe Giro/Bell or another helmet manufacturer has jumped on that to promote pro riders to wear helmets. I mean, if I was a sponsor, I would want my riders protected. Plus, helmet manufacturers would sell more helmets.

That all being said, I'm not a helmet nazi. I just don't get it.


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## HTR4EVR (Jun 15, 2007)

Not everybody ...










https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=111566


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## tvrbob86 (Aug 5, 2005)

Helmets are _way_ overrated.


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## redrider_stx (Nov 20, 2006)

*Never leave home without it....*

I wear my helmet all the time. I did forget it last week on my work commute but realized it after I got to the job. I always have a bandana under the helmet for sweat so I thought I had it on my head. I felt strange on the commute home and took it easy. That's the second time that has happened. Never forget it or ride without it on the trail

While we are on the subject of helmets, I picked up a new road helmet (Bell Solar Sport) at my LBS. They were on sale for $19.99 and the color matches my road bike perfectly. It was purely an impulse buy (I was actually there to pick up some stuff I ordered online). I was surprised to find that the helmet weighs 252g, which is lighter than most of the high dollar road and MTB helmets I have seen in the catalogs and online. Seems like the money you pay is more about the name, style or amount of vents vs. the weight.

Although I am pro-helmet, in my opinion, the helmet will only do but so much taking into account that you land on the top, back or fore part of your head. Does nothing for your face, chin or ears. Only a full face would offer more protection but how practical is that for most of us? It has saved me from a few low branches on the trail. So I say get a helmet and wear it but spending tons of cash on a slick looking one isn't going to make your head safer or make you a faster rider.

As far as helmets go, how many do you own? The new one makes four for me. I have been looking for a road helmet for awhile. I have a Giro Encinal I picked up 2 months ago. Good helmet. I like the rotor knob thingy in the back that snugs the helmet to your head. The new Bell helmet has this too. I have a Bell Forza 2 Pro purchased back in 1996. It served me well and I never had a crash in it. It's a little bulkier, heavier and the foam pads are worn out. The adhesive that holds some of the interior pads in place has deteriorated and the plastic shell is starting to come loose on the right side. I have also noticed that the visor on this helmet is longer than the one on the Giro which cause me to lift my head higher when using the helmet on the road due to the limited field of vision. I am going to try to do a little fixing on it and keep it around for a buddy that wants to ride or I may hand it down to my sister. The very first helmet I bought was a purple Pro Sport. It's a basic helmet with five vents (hot) and no visor. The shiny purple exterior makes it kinda disco:thumbsup: .

Two other questions while I'm here:

1. What is the life expectancy of a helmet? I decided to replace mines because it was over 10 years old but never had a crash in it. Does styrofoam break down with age?

2. Does anyone own one of those Azonic Surrond Sound helmets? If so, how do they fit? Sound? Saw a website that had them on sale but only the pink in L-XL. Thought about getting one (I'm man enough to ride in a pink helmet).


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## Brandontw (May 5, 2006)

redrider_stx said:


> Two other questions while I'm here:
> 
> 1. What is the life expectancy of a helmet? I decided to replace mines because it was over 10 years old but never had a crash in it. Does styrofoam break down with age?
> 
> 2. Does anyone own one of those Azonic Surrond Sound helmets? If so, how do they fit? Sound? Saw a website that had them on sale but only the pink in L-XL. Thought about getting one (I'm man enough to ride in a pink helmet).


10 years is getting up there... but i'm sure it would still protect your melon almost as effectively.

I look for pink helmets, thats how much of a man I am (Or I'm really, really gay -- you may never know...)


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## ZoSoSwiM (Dec 2, 2005)

I wear my helmet all the time.. I've spend too much money educating myself and getting a good job to lose it all because of not wearing a helmet. In fact I just bought a new road helmet so I'm even more comfortable.


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## redrider_stx (Nov 20, 2006)

I forgot to mention, last Saturday, I went out riding on the trails and it was wet and muddy. I was crossing a wooden bridge at the end of a nice downhill and tapped the brakes as I was going across. My wheels slid from under me and I slid for 15 feet before coming to a stop by slamming into the rail. I would've been in the stream if the railing wasn't there. I remember when I stopped I actually had my head raised but I can't remember if I hit my head or not. My left arm and shoulder were dirty so it's possible the back of my head may have touched the ground when I slid. Didn't see any marks on the helmet.

When I was in my teens, I rode my Mongoose BMX and was practicing tricks in the street in front of my friend's house. I did an endo and was balancing on my front wheel. Either my grip slackened or the brake pads slipped but the end result was me hitting the ground face first and busting my head over my left eyebrow that required 5 stitches. Face was swollen for 2 weeks. There is a small, barely noticeable scar above my eyebrow and you really can't even tell that I had an injury but if you ran your hand over the area, you would feel a small lump under the skin surface. You would have thought I learned my lesson but I still rode for a long time after that without one. Didn't get into wearing helmets until my adult biking life.

So as far as the accidents not really happening in familiar territory or around the neighborhood, I am proof that anything can happen (althought I was young, dumb and chose to partake in a risky activity). Could've been much worse at speed or falling on some rocks/roots.

Helmets are cheap and there are many choices these days as there are bikes. Find a cool one that suits you and your personality and that is made for the type of activity you perform on your bike.


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## Anonymous (Mar 3, 2005)

Nocturnus said:


> On the trails, all the time, on the street, never.


+ 1


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## den9 (May 25, 2006)

never wore a helmet riding bmx unless i was racing, but it was requuired

never wore a helmet on my mntn bike yet and i had it for a year, i just need to buy one, i fell once and got a little bruised up. when im flying down hills i get a little scared, im probaly gonna buy one this spring

on yeah when im commuting i never wear one, and i doubt i will ever do so


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## xcrunner1991 (Aug 9, 2007)

i try to wear mine all the time but it gets really uncomfortable so it mostly depends on where im riding.


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## dwnhlldav (Feb 2, 2006)

Nat said:


> I don't wear one when I'm just dinking around the neighborhood.


I'm a yes all the time. Even before the following story.

Couple weeks back we moved and the helmet was in a box somewhere. Went to ride around the block with the doggy. It was dark. Some SOB parked his pickup at the very end of his driveway with a bundle of pipes on the ladder rack that stuck out clear across the sidewalk. I didn't see them and hit them at a good clip with my head. I had no freakin clue happened until I went back and looked. Ended up with 8 staples in my scalp. Even around the neighborhood can get you.

someone asked how many you own?

I have my main lid, a Giro Xen.
My old (2 helments ago) ski hemlet a Giro Nine MX that I wear for winter riding helmet or spring ski helmet.
My new ski helmet a Giro Fuse. Would have died last year had I not been wearing one so I replaced it with the same helmet.
My Skateboard helmet
And my Full Face, but it never fit right so I just ordered a new one. Which will give me 6.

I may also pick up a road helmet since the strap configuration on the Xen makes a lot of noise in my ears at road speeds.

I don't care if people wear helmets or not, but I have a real problem with people who make their kids wear helmets, but don't do it themselves.


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## SuperNewb (Mar 6, 2004)

Used to never but racing required it so I started to wear one and 99% of the time off road I have it on now. Of course body armor would see waaaay more use then my helmet in actual contacting the ground or such. 

Seen all the scary pics/videos and I will still go ride my bike without a helmet whenever I want.


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## g550guy (Sep 29, 2006)

glad I had a helmut this day. Over bars onto head. cracked helmut in two. lucky, no permanent damage, except a rib that sticks out a little.


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## xcmtber (Mar 22, 2006)

Not wearing a helmet advertises there's nothing to protect!


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## ZoSoSwiM (Dec 2, 2005)

I just got my new Giro Monza helmet in the mail.. It fits soooo nicely. Tell you what, having a good fitting helmet that is comfortable and light weight sure increases your desire to wear it.. This helmet must weigh half of my old one.. Plus it looks much better..


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## ProfGumby (Feb 27, 2008)

All the time, every time...no exceptions. Twice since I started biking again 3 years ago I wanged the helmet hard. Once a tree branch on a wipe out and once either the handlebars or the side of the fork as I went over the top. Both times my melon was fine...the helmet has a few battle scars and a paint rub but it is fine.

And when I am on the streets around here I wish I had the armor of an Abrams Tank to protect me form the idiot drivers around here....


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

*Natural Selection at work...*

It's certainly becoming fashionable not to wear a helmet when riding. Each time I see it I think of Darwin and say to anyone within earshot: "See that? Natural Selection at work." Of course, for Natural Selection to be really effective, the person has to cease living and thus reproducing, as opposed to winding up in intensive care and putting an unnecessary (yet so easily preventable) strain on the medical system, let alone the rehab and care that will follow.

As a kid (early 80s) I used to ride the BMX before I even owned a helmet - nobody I knew did and my parents never mentioned it nor bought one. Sometime mid 80's they started plastering ads everywhere about helmets saving lives etc. I can't remember if it was compulsory (as in, law) but I think my parents made me start wearing one. I hated it, a lot.

Fastforward 15 years and I start Mtn Biking again. I didn't even think twice before buying a helmet along with my first bike in such a long time. It just made sense to protect the control center of my body, given how vulnerable it is to impact. Since then the only time I've ridden without it is in the aforementioned backyard at very low speeds, testing the shifting after I've adjusted it.

Same thing goes for when I started snowboarding - high speed, many static & moving objects to hit (along with many, many tools who are out of control) ... time to protect the noggin.

About the only time I can imagine being on a bike and not wearing a helmet is when you're out doing DH without shuttle/chairlift, and you're riding at walking pace back up the hill.

As for those who want to feel the wind in the hair - I'd recommend going for a roller coaster ride, or a drive in a convertible. Or shave your head like I do and never get helmet hair again.


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## RiftZone (Apr 14, 2004)

Yes, especially if she looks like Lindsy Lohan.. Did I spell that correctly?


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

nuclear_powered said:


> It's certainly becoming fashionable not to wear a helmet when riding. Each time I see it I think of Darwin and say to anyone within earshot...


And I'll bet everyone within earshot loves hearing a some guy exclaiming about random strangers lack of safety equipment.

Becoming fashionable? Helmets were never fashionable with non-cyclists, and with cyclists, going lidless is anything but fashionable.

Darwin misuse again. Uy. In case you hadn't noticed, China's not exactly about to be out-reproduced due to riding without helmets. ...not that anyone over there rides bicycles.

You'd shout your holier-than-thou little lungs out just about anywhere else in the world.

But, since here in the states, where no one is ever responsible for anything that happens to them, and everything must be settled in hugely expensive lawsuits, yes, you should wear a helmet, so that when you fall down off your bike, and your sunglasses scrape your nose, you can say you did all you could, and thusly sue the bejezus out of everyone else, from the plastics company that made the sunglasses seam too sharp, to the guy who paved the road too hard. Or, if a car would happen to hit you while you're down, or you twisted your neck, or your spine, or any number of other paralyzing or worse things were to happen to you, and you wind up in a coma or dead, as Jayem says, your family and friends can all sue for you, adding to the already sky-high cost of product liability insurance, which is already so prohibitive no one can afford to build anything in this country anymore. You can contribute to this country's shift from being innovators and inventors and sculptors, to middle management and litigators, all grinning and hand-shaking, and skimming off the top of everyone elses work, not generating anything positive, not constructing anything for the greater advancement of a free society, just another reason to weaken our nations ability to be self-sufficient. And just like the guy in the gurney next to you, your insurance can pay the first 10k and dump the rest on uncle sam, and you can wither away your days happily in the knowing that you've contributed to that great evil commie notion of socialized health care, just like everyone else who had a kid that couldn't afford it, but couldn't get birth control or an abortion.

How far off the deep end do you guys really want to get with this?


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## seosamh (Mar 17, 2007)

nuclear_powered said:


> or a drive in a convertible.


don't have them to hand but statistically that's probably far more dangerous than going for a bike ride without a helmet.


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## Badmamajama (Mar 28, 2008)

Does it count if you _where_ the helmet while running around the house?


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## Triple Threat (Feb 28, 2008)

Always on the downhill. Sometimes not on long uphills.
On hot days I will fasten it to the Camelback for the long haul uphills.


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## DPL (Mar 23, 2008)

Yes, absolutely always. No exceptions. About 8 years ago I made a no helmet-no ride rule for myself and I haven't ridden without one since. My helmet goes on before I even get on the bike and stays on my head until my bike is locked up again at the end of the ride. 

Even if I'm doing a test ride round the block I wear it. If I'm on a bike, I'll be wearing a helmet because I won't even sit on a bike without wearing one.


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## Ray Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

I am not picking on anyone, but I do find the hardcore pro helmet types interesting...

climb a ladder without a helmet?
stand on a chair to change a light bulb?
wear a helmet when you shower?
Horse play/run around a pool?
Remove hot pans from an oven with towel/dish rag?

Looking up some more insurance/accident facts would be interesting

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national...ions-every-year/2008/02/17/1203190653944.html

I predict in 20 years by law we will all be wearing bubble wrap and city sidewalks will be air bag equipped.

Ray


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## DPL (Mar 23, 2008)

Ray Lee said:


> I am not picking on anyone, but I do find the hardcore pro helmet types interesting...
> 
> climb a ladder without a helmet?
> stand on a chair to change a light bulb?
> ...


It's a fair point you make but I guess people percieve risks in different ways. I could be described as hardcore pro-helmet but that's after writing off two helmets in the past and knowing a good few other people who've done the same. I can't say for certain what would have happened had I not been wearing a helmet but I imagine it wouldn't have been good. I just feel far more comfortable wearing one and besides, I can't really think of a single good reason for not wearing a helmet!


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## bones1283 (Apr 12, 2008)

I know that I should, but I very rarely wear helmets. I grew up riding bikes without one and I never really even think of using one besides when I have larger drops planned for the day or when I'm riding DH at a ski area or something. For regular trail riding or riding around on streets, I don't bother. I hope that I never regret it.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Here's a good therapy for those who don't want to ride with a helmet on. Put it on before you go to bed. If it starts to get uncomfortable, take it off & put it next to the bed. When you wake up, wash up & put it on when you get dressed. Wear it to breakfast. Wear it to work. Ah, come on man, you know what I mean! Never, never, ride without your helmet. It can take hits much better than your skull. ...And gloves can take hits better than your fingers & the palms of your hands. ...Nuff said.---zarr  :thumbsup:


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Oh Yeah. I forgot to mention in my previous post: ...I HATE WEARING A HELMET!!!!! :madman: ...But when I first started riding, my Buds clobbered me when I didn't wear one. Then it began to sink in. ...Don't ride without a helmet. I'm glad now that I had people who cared about me.  ---zarr


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## Berkley (May 21, 2007)

With mountain riding, it's a no-brainer. Rocks, roots, steep downhills, high log rollovers. Plenty of stuff to crack your skull open on. 

On the road - it's not that I'm not a safe rider. I trust my skills. It's the motorists I don't trust - they present a level of unpredictability.


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## fly in (Apr 24, 2008)

You two must be English majors who text in complete sentences. I wear a helmet to be politically correct, although in the day they did not exist. Recently, while overzealously tooling the neighborhood and crashing (all by myself) without a helmet, I had to be stitched up and had road rash most everywhere except my head. Best to "where" one. Where? Zarr is right.


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## Gatorback (Oct 9, 2007)

Even to the mailbox.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

*Murphy's law.*

I have never managed to hit my head hard enough to damage a helmet, and I've been mtbing since '92.
The ONE time I forgot to take my helmet with me, I rode without it, (being very careful) and got away with it. Then after the ride my brother said "hey let's take the dog for a run in the park over the road". I was at his place, still didn't have my helmet, but we grabbed the bikes and went. There was a decently steep gravel hill in the park and as I was accelerating down that the dog ran in front of me and I went down hard on the gravel. My sunglasses saved my right eye, but I can still remember the feeling of my head grinding along the gravel as I rolled over. My brothers picked my up and took me to the A&E where I they had to glue up the hole in my scalp.
It was the only time I rode without a helmet and it hurt.

Best not to take the chance.


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## ProfGumby (Feb 27, 2008)

While it is ultimately the riders choice, I had my previous statements proven last Sunday. Riding with my boys I had to try and be a hot shot and pull a wheelie on my new bike. Guess what? I was laughing before I was done wiping out and while my bike was still bouncing down the pavement. I did nail my helmet on the road as I went over backwards.

My helmet whomped the asphalt, not my melon.....


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## danyiluska (Sep 20, 2006)

never in the city


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

I always wear a helmet when riding off road and I'd turn around and drive home if I forgot it. The first 17 years of my life I didn't wear a helmet with my BMX and racer, but no one did back then. In the 30 odd years that I've been riding a bike I've only ever hit my head once. I was wearing a FF & body armor and the impact wasn't even enough to damage the helmet. Don't want to push my luck though!


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

I havne't lately when tuning the bike in front of the house. After reading the post. I will wear a helmet 100%. I've crashed too many times on road and off road to not wear one. 

Being around motorcycles in my youth, got me into the practice of wear a skid lid.
btw, you can split your head open just as easily on concrete as on dirt. I am more concerned riding on the streets with all the steel 2 ton beast. just saying...


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## Mr.Grizzle (Feb 21, 2008)

Never wore one growing up, or through college when I commuted on a busy, dangerous highway.

Now that I have a wife and a daughter, I can't think of much that would be more selfish than not wearing one every time I ride.


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## spcarter (Nov 17, 2007)

I get yelled at all the time but I don't want to pay for a helmet, I know its a dumb reason not to have a helmet but there is a lot better stuff I could do with $70.


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## Mr Bacon Jr (Apr 2, 2008)

Hmmmm- my head is worth way more than 70 skins. It is not a question of if you are going down, it is when.


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## Dom87SS (Mar 14, 2008)

$70? my bell was 55 marked down to 33 on sale and it does just fine. that ok though, the day will come when you split your self and have to go to the hospital. then you'll be thinkin i wish i spent that $70 on a helmet instead of $7,000 in medical bills. and it has nothing it do with how fast or hard or even where you ride. 

i was riding on a flat trail with my 50 (at the time) year old mother. went down a small hill she was trailing behind me just coasting a long when she got in some loose stuff and bit it. she broke 7 ribs, cracked her shoulder blade, punctured a lung, broke her collar bone and was bleeding from the ears by the time i turned around and got back to her. this is the most terrifying thing i had been involved with. neither us had cell phone, it was like 3pm and we were in the middle of a forest preserve with no one to help. all it takes is one wrong move and its serious damage. would a helmet have helped her? maybe slightly but not a whole lot. but then again a inch one way or another she coulda whacked the bars and had been worse off.


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## HTR4EVR (Jun 15, 2007)

spcarter said:


> I get yelled at all the time but I don't want to pay for a helmet, I know its a dumb reason not to have a helmet but there is a lot better stuff I could do with $70.


 Its cheaper than a visit to the ER.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

The real key to wearing a helmet is to get a comfortable one. Go to some places & try some on until you find the one that makes you smile and make it your buddy when you ride.  ...?...:thumbsup: Maybe we should make a Be Kind To Your Helmet Day...??


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## onbelaydave (May 10, 2006)

*Always on singletrack and road*

Rarely on "service road" climbs or city built bike/ped. only, paved "paths".

FWIW, I rarely wear a helmet rock climbing unless I'm doing an Alpine route w/ spontaneous rockfall


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## paulster2626 (Apr 6, 2008)

All the time. I feel awkward without it.


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## mtnbkrid (Jan 30, 2004)

Yep, uhmmm, except when I am on my cruiser.....hope I don't have to regret that...


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

i drove my buddy to the ER the other morning,while he was partly unconcious.

yes i do.


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## michaelblade (Oct 18, 2006)

If you have seen the blood running down the face of the helmetless quimby,you will feel good about wearing your fullface helmet that people give you **** about.Even with a state of the art open face you can still suck DS without a straw. When I put on my Bell FF I get instantly geeked up.But I am guilty of riding in the past without one.Have since seen the light and somebody hurt from not having a FF helmet on.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

deep snow-no
everything else-yes


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I always wear helmet when I ride my bike. There is no question in the importance of helmet. The poster should realize the consequences of riding a bike without a helmet.


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## BontyRaceOR (Feb 25, 2004)

Wear all the time my Giro E2.


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## GrantR (Apr 16, 2008)

I only don't if I'm riding less than a mile to class.


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## johnnyelohssa (Jun 13, 2007)

I fallen down and hit my head more times going slow on the side of a deserted road then out on busy road trying to race traffic down hill or out on a rocky trail. Not by much but it is true. So for that reason i wear a helmet all the time, i got a bell for 30 bucks at the LBS, and then i have a full face i got for 75 bucks that i use when in a mood to go and jump off things or blast down so new random trail.


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## tjkm (Jun 9, 2007)

Crusing through the neighborhood-sometimes, trail riding-all the time. I went over the bars enough as a kid on the bmx bike that I learend my lesson after a few trips to the ER and scars that only a FF would have prevented. It was the 80's, who the hell wore helmets back then?


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## TripleThreat (Jul 22, 2004)

Every single ride, feel stupid w/o it. And how the hell am I supposed to get my kids to wear them if I don't.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

always.....


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## Indiefab (Feb 5, 2005)

I'll jump in.

I was just thinking about this while riding today. I decided if I owned a bike shop, I'd have a big sign saying "No bike purchase without proof of helmet". They wouldn't have to buy one from me, they'd just have to prove that they own one. I'd probably do something like a 25-50% discount on a new helmet with a bike purchase if they needed one. You especially can't trust the parents to know what a kid needs.

I've heard every excuse. "I don't ride that fast" "I don't ride rough trails" "I'm a really good rider" "Its too hot" "Its not cool" All total crap.


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## johnnyelohssa (Jun 13, 2007)

Ohh yea i love the "its not cool" line. I usually shoot back with yea well massive head trama even less cool, moron.


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## fishbum (Aug 8, 2007)

"Hey - none of those expensive bike component upgrades are gonna fit your wheelchair..."


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## seosamh (Mar 17, 2007)

why are all the pro helmet people so hostile? what do you care if someone else doesn't wear a helmet, really what causes such anger? i know for a fact when i don't wear a helmet i'm not gonny land on my head, get over yerselves, my life my choice, i'll wear a helmet when i know there a chance i'll fall that's about it. done me no harm in 25 years.. i doubt it'll be the end of me...

you can also hurt yourself badly while wearing a helmet they don't make you invinsible...they aren't the be all and end all of bike safety, personally i put knowing my own limits, ability and awareness of what's around me way above wearing a helmet.


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## Indiefab (Feb 5, 2005)

seosamh said:


> why are all the pro helmet people so hostile?


I will protect your right to ride a bike without a helmet, as long as you stay off my trail. If you fall, break your neck and die or are quadraplegic for the rest of your life, the safety of my trail is likely to be scrutinized by polititians. Especially if your family sues the parks commission for failing to post signs encouraging helmet usage. To be honest, your life doesn't mean as much to me as being able to ride my local trail. So, if I see you on Turkey Mountain in Tulsa without a helmet, I'll offer you one of my spares I keep in my truck.


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## seosamh (Mar 17, 2007)

Indiefab said:


> I will protect your right to ride a bike without a helmet, as long as you stay off my trail. If you fall, break your neck and die or are quadraplegic for the rest of your life, the safety of my trail is likely to be scrutinized by polititians. Especially if your family sues the parks commission for failing to post signs encouraging helmet usage. To be honest, your life doesn't mean as much to me as being able to ride my local trail. So, if I see you on Turkey Mountain in Tulsa without a helmet, I'll offer you one of my spares I keep in my truck.


:madman: :madman: it's quite easy to break your neck with a helmet on.

incidently, does anyone has statistics for injuries with and without helmets over say the last 5 years?

also my family wouldn't sue the park and rightly so, you should learn to take responsiblity for your own actions over there.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

HotBlack said:


> Only when racing. But I'm in a bit of a slightly unusual situation. Most people should probably wear them most of the time, yes.


Please enlighten us mere mortals to your "unusual situation" that doesn't require wearing a helmet when not racing, since you are apparantly above the class of "Most people".


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## fred-da-trog (Oct 28, 2003)

seosamh said:


> why are all the pro helmet people so hostile? what do you care if someone else doesn't wear a helmet, really what causes such anger? i know for a fact when i don't wear a helmet i'm not gonny land on my head, get over yerselves, my life my choice, i'll wear a helmet when i know there a chance i'll fall that's about it. done me no harm in 25 years.. i doubt it'll be the end of me...
> 
> you can also hurt yourself badly while wearing a helmet they don't make you invinsible...they aren't the be all and end all of bike safety, personally i put knowing my own limits, ability and awareness of what's around me way above wearing a helmet.


There is no need for helmets.

I'm constantly teased by my riding partners that I'm always in the right place at the right time to aid someone in distress. It can be a flat tire, broken chain or derailer , I can help.
If you need Medi-flight transporting to the hospital, I'm always there to help. I'm real good at administering soothing words as you lay there wondering how long before someone shows up that knows trauma treatment. I know I'm good at it because I get to do it several times a year and the injured party always thank me.

If for some reason, I'm busy and don't happen by, someone like me will stop what they are doing and help.

Wear a helmet you selfish ___________


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## w00t! (Apr 28, 2008)

seosamh said:


> wear a helmet when i know there a chance i'll fall that's about it. done me no harm in 25 years.. i doubt it'll be the end of me...


In about 10 more years, you'll probably look back wish you'd been more intelligent in your younger days.

Do you shun sunscreen as well?

I'm sure you protect your eyes with sunglasses though...after all, they're "cool".


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## fishbum (Aug 8, 2007)

seosamh said:


> Incidently, does anyone has statistics for injuries with and without helmets over say the last 5 years?


Oh, so you want to play the odds, eh? You see, your skull is like an egg - if you crack it you will be permanently disabled, paralyzed or dead instantly. So why would you want to take the risk for such a simple thing?

I'm not angry - I just don't want my trail access jeopardized by other users, and I don't want to have to be the one to scoop your brains off the ground with a shovel.


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## fishbum (Aug 8, 2007)

seosamh said:


> personally i put knowing my own limits, ability and awareness of what's around me way above wearing a helmet.


Bullshart. There is a reason they are called 'accidents'.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

seosamh said:


> :madman: :madman: it's quite easy to break your neck with a helmet on.
> 
> incidently, does anyone has statistics for injuries with and without helmets over say the last 5 years?
> 
> also my family wouldn't sue the park and rightly so, you should learn to take responsiblity for your own actions over there.


I believe there are statistics, because there are laws for requiring motorcycle helmets that have been base on the very fact that quads and injuries tax the healthcare system due to law suites and lifetime healthcare coverage. I'm sure this is carried over th bicycle head injuries and deaths.

fisburn I totally agree with your position on this matter. We the taxpayers and riders do ultimately have to pay the price for those that chose to not take simple protective measures and get seriously injured or die. we pay in higher insurance premiums, less coverage, higher taxes. more state and federal safety, healthcare and land use regulations.

I don't care what helmetless people do as long as it is in there backyard and not in common areas used by the public, Me.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Dec 2, 2005)

IMO if you are in control of your own thoughts as most of us should be it should be your decision to wear a helmet.. seatbelt.. and/or other safety stuff. I don't feel that the government should have any control over this.. If you don't want to protect yourself.. fine. Die/get hurt. Simply enough. .

Make laws against being able to sue based on injury while on public land. Protect landowners and people that really care. Don't penalize the rest of us because a few idiots decide to hurt themselves and blame the closest person they can find. Keep our premiums reasonable and stop raising all other associated fees because someone was careless.

Last year the trails at college were entirely sanitized because the landholder freaked out.. If we make it harder, or impossible to sue because you messed up we'd be in a much better situation. No one forced you to ride the bike.. no one forced you to attempt a 10 foot drop off a cliff. You made a choice. DEAL WITH IT!


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## fishbum (Aug 8, 2007)

Yeah, but seosamh said his family wouldn't sue. So we're all good, right?  

Money changes people. When he is dead or paralyzed and his family is grieving they'll be looking to blame someone...


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## seosamh (Mar 17, 2007)

listen i'm not against wearing helmets, i wear one myself when i think i need to, i just don't see the need to wear one from the minute i step out my front door or when i going up hill etc i think youse take it too far in that respect, there are situations when a helmet is not required, if i'm hurtling down a trail a 20odd mph i'll wear a helmet, generally if i'm going up hill or just going about the street the helmet comes off..and as i said earlier tho i put other things well above wearing a helmet on the safety issue when riding a bike..

also i'm all for laws against sueing people for injuries you cause to yourself, i think it's retarded in the extreme that you can sue someone else for an injury you caused yourself especially while doing a sport where you aim for difficult obsticles, if i was the judge there'd be no case every time nearly.. i think it's a little saner over here (uk) in that respect.

ps it's unlikely i'll ever ride any off your trail anyhow so you can chill on that respect!


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## skeeter (Dec 30, 2003)

Nat said:


> Not for everyone:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=234020


first thread i read after not checking the forums for about 10 months, and i run into this. funny.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

I'm old school LA, we rode schwin cruisers with springer front ends and extreme riser bars. coaster brakes @ 45 lbs., I remember when the oil fields in ladera heights were open, fire roads and single track and its now a public park.,South Central there was this Devils dip, open dirt ravine that we rode, at the time it looked like 50 foot or deeper. We did the Arlington street dip, arlington drops down about 300 feet from Adams. 

My schwin was my do it all bike, dirt and street, urban (run from the gangs) and commuter (i rode to work at my Dad's store in Watts (deep ghetto) bicycle helmets and mt. bikes weren't invented yet. 

funny after all of that I had no crashes, a few scraped toes from riding bare foot! Ive had much more seriouse crashes and injuries as an adult on mt. bikes and have dented a several of helmets and one broken knee.

We also rode these 4 foot wooden skate boards with metal wheels nailed on. before that we nailed an wooden upright or fruit crate with handle mars. we rode from the top of slauson near La brea down hill to Creshaw. jumped off the curbs and Converse tennis shoes for brakes. No helmets or body armor.

we didn't do back flips nor nak naks, those were done only by accident. Heh!

thinking back, nothing was safe then. airplanes had piston engines, cars no seat belts, metal dashes, no helmets for bicycles. no Disc Brakes nor V Brakes. But my balance and athletics skills were much higher, and brain was much dumber.


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## robin_hood (Feb 8, 2006)

Berkley said:


> With mountain riding, it's a no-brainer. Rocks, roots, steep downhills, high log rollovers. Plenty of stuff to crack your skull open on.
> 
> On the road - it's not that I'm not a safe rider. I trust my skills. It's the motorists I don't trust - they present a level of unpredictability.


:thumbsup:

My thoughts exactly; I wear a helmet all the time, and encourage all my friends to wear helmets while riding, dirt and/or pavement.


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## Dom87SS (Mar 14, 2008)

so do you take your helmet off and carry it when you feel its not required but when you say i could fall bad up there and put it on just to take it back off when your feel "safe" again?


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## den9 (May 25, 2006)

im going to buy a helmet right now!

next question, how many of your wear safety glasses?


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## Dom87SS (Mar 14, 2008)

i wear one of my pairs of oakleys when i ride, unless its dark out. i think they help me see, even when it does get darker out. i actually wear the a lot cause they help bring things out, even in normal everyday things. i also work doing videography and i wear them all the time even if its 10pm and dark out. i can see my screen better and through the fog/haze that settles at night. the lens' are also proven to be very very strong and resistant to puncture.


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## HTR4EVR (Jun 15, 2007)

Always wear my glasses and gloves. I lost a set of Fox Digit Gloves last Friday...:cryin:


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## Dom87SS (Mar 14, 2008)

im happy with my lizard skin g-loves. nice padding in the palm and combined with my oury's they grip like hell


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

whodaphuck said:


> Please enlighten us mere mortals to your "unusual situation" that doesn't require wearing a helmet when not racing, since you are apparantly above the class of "Most people".


Ask nicely...


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## omega301 (Apr 20, 2008)

I wear a helmet just about every time I ride. I dont when I am taking a slow casual ride through a park on a bike path knowing that there are no cars around and I wont be getting air born. I'm cautious, ride within my limits and observe whats around me and whats hapening. Of course accidents can happen anytime anywhere, but thats the risk I take.


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## Fabulous (Jan 20, 2008)

*Always!*

A helmet has saved my grey matter in an incident involving a suburban running a red light. I got to ride in an ambulance that time. My next helmet was crushed when a rock jumped up out of the trail and twisted my tire around sideways causing me to endo. I got a concusion through my helmet that time.

My kids are trained to put their helmets on before they hop in the saddle and I set the example by always wearing one myself. Even on the paved bike path.

You *never* know when someones crazed chihuahua will decide to play chicken with your tire!


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## ducktape (May 21, 2007)

Hmm yes, we moved to a place that has a bit of land recently and I have found myself taking a spin on the bike without donning the helmet.
I have a couple of young kids who I have trained to put the helmets on before jumping on the bike and for me every time I have jumped on mine for a spin and without the helmet it has certainly been on my conscience. I think this sort of thing can easily lead to going further & then getting complacent to not wearing a helmet at all.

It won't be that hard to change my ways back to always wearing one - since I always used to before we moved. I suppose levaing it hanging on the bike would be the best solution.

After all sometimes the silliest little crash can lead to the greatest amount of pain, and it generally happens when least expected!


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## vintagemtbr (Jun 6, 2004)

*Always.*

I always wear a helmet,even when I'm in those public restrooms in downtown San Jo.The floors are slippery.You never know. :thumbsup:


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

fishbum said:


> Yeah, but seosamh said his family wouldn't sue. So we're all good, right?
> 
> Money changes people. When he is dead or paralyzed and his family is grieving they'll be looking to blame someone...


Ok, I just got PM'd back into this thing, after a perfectly nice vacation. Fine, here's a post, since I'm stuck at work.

This thread has to have more emotional, baseless assumptions than any other I can remember.

Take the quoted post above, for instance. fishbum asserts to know what seosamh's family (whom FB has never met and knows nothing about) will do in this hypothetical situation, better than SS himself. To do this, he:

1. Assumes SS has never had conversations with them over the years about his dangerous sport, and the potential outcomes of his actions.

2. Assumes that SS's family doe not have money, and wouldn't know how to react if they did.

3. Assumes that SS's family are sort of people who would throw their principals out the window for a fast buck.

Those are some big assumptions he uses as a basis to roll his eyes and insult people on. Sounds like a few of you come from truly miserable families & upbringings.

This thread's got people assuming that everyone rides like we did when we were noobs, people assuming that because they got in over their head and landed on it, that they have experience no one else has (how precious), assuming everyone values human life as much as they do, assuming that people are all here indefinitely, assuming we're all content or able to wait for death to find us at old age (more costly than dying young from head trauma anyway, for those of you only concerned with your money), assuming that this country's medical system would work if it weren't for (fill in the blank), and on and on the contrived reaching goes.

Jayem's notion that it affects society around you, is a good start. EVERYTHING you do affects those around you. Actions all ripple out, but all cause someone to gain and someone to lose.

Everyone knows helmets add a minimal level of protection to your life when riding.

Getting emotionally attached to an argument only retards your critical thinking, and evangelizing from there only ever wins you the most vapid maroons as supporters.

That's more than I care to say. I'm out.


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## den9 (May 25, 2006)

Fabulous said:


> A helmet has saved my grey matter in an incident involving a suburban running a red light. I got to ride in an ambulance that time.  My next helmet was crushed when a rock jumped up out of the trail and twisted my tire around sideways causing me to endo. I got a concusion through my helmet that time.
> 
> My kids are trained to put their helmets on before they hop in the saddle and I set the example by always wearing one myself. Even on the paved bike path.
> 
> You *never* know when someones crazed chihuahua will decide to play chicken with your tire!


in my old neighborhood when i was younger these 2 chihuhuas always chased us down the street, i dont brake for crazy dogs


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## ICanDigIt (Jun 23, 2004)

Always....

One time I had to give my "why should always wear a helmet talk" to an older couple I met outside the local bike shop...Kind of a funny scene: A long-haired, hippy punk lecturing conservative looking folks on safety.

I also had to explain it to a really cute girl at the book store. She said helmets messed up her hair...To be fair though, she did have a super-cute haircut.


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## Rubicon (Oct 12, 2005)

V.P. said:


> I use a helmet 70% of the time, never when I do light freeride. I know, its stupid.


Not stupid... just natural selection at work... give it some time.:arf:

Cheers...Dave


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## Michael B (Oct 1, 2007)

I never ride without one. You never know....

Example:

Today I rode a good singletrack that I have ridden before. I though I was going through a bush or something, but ended up being a rock. I soared about 10 ft, landing on my head, then shoulder, then back. My bike launched about 20 ft in the air. Inspecting my helmet, I noticed a good size ding, a crack, and some scractches.

The outcome of the crash comes down to this. My back is a little sore, and I have a couple scrathes, but other than that I'm fine, THANKS TO MY HELMET!

The moral of the story is: YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN! BETTER TO BE SAFE THAN SORRY!

Ride strong and take care!

Peace....


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## V.P. (Aug 26, 2007)

HotBlack said:


> Everyone knows helmets add a minimal level of protection to your life when riding.


You sir, are wrong.


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## [email protected] (Mar 31, 2007)

I'd rather break my helmet than my neck,
but last year I broke both...
I don't wanna know what happened if I was riding without one.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

V.P. said:


> You sir, are wrong.


It's happened before.

Lesse,

Possibly not everyone knows it, but I can't imagine whom.
Or possibly, helmets don't add even a minimum amount of safety.
Or possibly, helmets add maximum safety, making its wearer invincible.

Equally unsure of these options though.


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## aussie tojo (Apr 3, 2007)

i have had quite a few crashes but none that wearing a helmet would have made any differance at all. I think people should allways wear a helmet.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*visors*

I believe you should wear a helmet all the time. ...Years ago (back in the mid 90s', I read in Bike magazine i think it was about a man who ran into a overhanging tree branch and tore his head off!!! (I'm not sure if he was wearing his helmet.) Make sure your visor allows you to look up. :thumbsup:


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## treestan (Jan 10, 2008)

I've destroyed one helmet - split from back all the way up to the front after a nasty crash into a ditch full of rocks. However, even before that, I would never ride trail without one. When I am moving about town (my town is particularly cycle-friendly), I go without, however.


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## jazzzmonky (Dec 8, 2007)

Always on the road or trail. The only time I don't is just up the driveway. I try to get my friends to wear helmets on trails but am rarely successful. It's such a minor inconvenience I don't understand why people don't find it worth while. From what I hear head injuries suck.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

*you remined me.*



zarr said:


> I believe you should wear a helmet all the time. ...Years ago (back in the mid 90s', I read in Bike magazine i think it was about a man who ran into a overhanging tree branch and tore his head off!!! (I'm not sure if he was wearing his helmet.) Make sure your visor allows you to look up. :thumbsup:


I forgot all about this until I just read your post, I didn't think much of it at the time and just pulled out the branch! I was tired and hungry so I forgot all about it. However i replace the helmet. it had several dents from a couple of other crashes. it was overdue to be retired!!

I caught an overhanging branch, it looked like merely some leaves hanging down. But it was a small branch cover with leaves. the branch and leaves jammed intol my visor and helmet vent hole. I tore off the branch and the momentum just about pulled my head off.
The branch and leaves remainded stuck in the vent hole and slightly dented my helmet. so I imagine it would have caused much more damage to my forhead and would have been painful.


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## fishbum (Aug 8, 2007)

HotBlack said:


> Those are some big assumptions.


Well, Ho-Black, now you add to the fire by making further ASSumptions about what I was assuming? This sounds like a double assumption to me, which means perhaps they zero each other out.

My assumption was not specific to SS, it was a general assumption and targeted to no one person. SS is from the UK, where they don't sue like people do here in the US, which I knew before I posted. Yet you make an assumption about my upbringing and family. Or was that a general assumption and not targeted directly at me?

You said you were out, but you came back. Are you in or out? I don't want to make any more assumptions.


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## jivarie (Jan 30, 2008)

Wearing a helmet is such a minor inconvenience and can save you from a more serious injury. I really don't see the point of not wearing one...even if you're just going for a "light" ride. Really, does it mess your hair up that bad? make you look that goofy? it's too hot (yeah, ok)? Come on people. I only lecture the people that I love about helmets. Everyone else...ride how you like.


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## Streamline.by.design (Apr 27, 2007)

I am a big advocate of wearing you helmet all the time and yet dumbness can set into even me. Last week I got to work and realized that I had left my gloves and helmet at home 45 min away. So I said no riding for me. Well I had been interviewing all week for a job and still didn't, don't, get an answer so stress level was high. Decided wtf ill be careful.
Long story short, I thought something hit my leg and when I turned to figure out what it was I veered into the curb and BAM! Over the Bars. Scared the crap out of me.

Needless to say. I won't make that mistake again.


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## SosaPilot (Apr 24, 2008)

I wear a helmet every time I ride, I may look a bit stupid, but I'd rather that then have a head injury


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## C-Rock (Nov 5, 2006)

*HELMET, ..visor, glasses, gloves*

ALWAYS wear it here. 
My helmet hides my bad thinning hair.
Visor adds to the "look".
Glasses help to gape at women more easily. :madmax: 
Gloves help to keep my hands looking young. :blush:

*I've never been so happy to disgard equipment as i was tossing a couple of my damaged helmets in the trash. THAT's a good feeling*. :thumbsup:

Remember this vintage look (below)
A bit geeky now, by today's "fashion-forward" riders' standards. :skep:
Funny though how *H-ball* is one of the best MTB'rs ever. 
Wearing the helmet is like the secret highsign. Can i have a witness brothers and sisters!?!?!


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

SosaPilot said:


> I wear a helmet every time I ride, I may look a bit stupid, but I'd rather that then have a head injury


Some look better with the helmet on. wait to you get to my age. heh! I covers the grey hairs.


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## Vern Vega (Aug 10, 2006)

*I am not a role model....*

Don't have too much to add, just this one thing:

I used to not bother with my helmet if I was tooling around the driveway or my block. Say I just put on a new chain and want to make sure it meshes well with the cassette. I ride down the hill from my house a little ways, turn around and come back up shifting through the gears. No helmet for that.

About 6 months ago, one of my neighbors stopped me. He was very pleasant, asked me a couple questions about my bike, asked how my race season was going. Then he said his kids knew I was a big biker, and that they had seen me riding the streets without my helmet. He was really nice and said, "I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but would it be too much for you to throw on your helmet for this little test rides you do?"

I had no idea anyone on the block was even watching me. The helmet goes on all the time, now.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

Wow, I know neighbors notice everything. I will be wearing my helmet on my test rides from now on!! I have been known to test ride after 11 pm. but I will still throw on the lid.


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## tooljunkie (Nov 15, 2005)

Helmets are about the Man trying to control your life. If you are a good enough rider, you don't need a helmet. Same goes driving, only bad drivers need seat belts, because only bad drivers get in wrecks. I never use safety glasses because I am a skilled craftsman. When I pick up some questionable companion in a bar, I'm not about to use a condom. Personal safety and taking responsibility for your actions is for sissy's. It's all about right now, I don't care if I'm a drooling fool in 5 years. Live for the moment.:skep:


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! your killing me!


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## HTR4EVR (Jun 15, 2007)

Speechless ...:shocked:


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## Neurodoc (May 7, 2008)

From my observations in Amsterdam, everybody bikes everywhere and nobody wears a helmet. In general, European commuting = no helmet. And number of bikes FAR exceeds number of cars. 

In the U.S., bike commuters all wear helmets (where cars > bikes). And more and more skiers wear helmets (in fact, there's a very similar thread to this one on epicski.com).

I wear a helmet when I bike and ski, if for no other reason than the fact that I'm a neurologist. Sustaining a preventable head injury would be professionally embarrassing.


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## Clutchman83 (Apr 16, 2006)

Neurodoc said:


> I wear a helmet when I bike and ski, if for no other reason than the fact that I'm a neurologist. Sustaining a preventable head injury would be professionally embarrassing.


But it would give you total street cred with your patients! "Wear a helmet or else you'll end up having to come to a brain damaged neurologist." - that would be classic.

Wow I'm late to the party on this one. No, I don't wear a helmet all the time. I don't wear one commuting the mile and a half to campus for school. I often lose the thing when I'm climbing on fireroads because it's F'ing hot in eastern WA in the summer and I have never cased it while climbing a gravel road... ever...(if it's even possible) and I've been doing this for a while. However, I couldn't imagine feeling comfortable climbing on singletrack without one. Descending goes without question. I always wear a helmet in those situations, bike or ski, I think it's suicidal to go without one given how often I bang my melon off the ground when going downhill.


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## aph72 (Jun 28, 2006)

Geez, helmets are comfy. If you grab your bike, grab your helmet. It's just a good, safe idea. Don't try to be the 'cool' kid without a helmet. Just wear the thing and be safe.


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## Deme Moore (Jun 15, 2007)

Riding lidless on the trail is probably less dangerous than riding with a helmet on your typical road full of clueless drivers talking on their cell phones and eating Big Macs. A helmet is not going to save you from blunt force trauma to the torso.

I wear a helmet these days but used to MTB before helmets became commonplace. Funny how nobody made a stink about it then. Today we're blessed with "enlightened" riders who preach the choir. I'm still amazed how the most vocal of safety weenies are some of lousiest riders on the trail.

Maybe they need to shut up and focus on their skills instead of constantly endangering themselves and others with their lack of control!


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## Lemonade (May 3, 2008)

I'm going to be honest. I don't wear a helmet when im riding on the road to work on my junker. I don't wear one when I ski, and I ski in the park (despite the fact I own one!), unless I'm trying something new. 

I do wear one for AM/trail though, where wearing a helmet is actually quite justified.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*Helmet safety*



zarr said:


> I believe you should wear a helmet all the time. ...Years ago (back in the mid 90s', I read in Bike magazine i think it was about a man who ran into a overhanging tree branch and tore his head off!!! (I'm not sure if he was wearing his helmet.) Make sure your visor allows you to look up. :thumbsup:


I just wanted to add some more to my post.After reading nagatahawks' comment to my post, I just wanted to stress that when you come upon overhanging leaves on the trail and you think you can just duck down a little and go under them with maybe just a little brush happening, DON'T !!!! :eekster: :eekster: There may be more than just leaves there, like a branch that can hook up in your helmet vents and either break your neck or tear you head off!!


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## rabidweasel999 (Oct 22, 2006)

Always on trails, always at mom's house cause she's a nazi about it, never if I'm at dad's cause it's all grass, always getting from point A to point B, sometimes just playing around on a mound of dirt in someone's yard.


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## Scudweiser (Jul 13, 2008)

road... no. technical trails. no. fast trails, sometimes. stuff on my head distracts me i think


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## onbelaydave (May 10, 2006)

*Nope.*

City bike paths, my afternoon/evening ST loops, all buff, never a helmet. I've never skied in a helmet, or sport climbed in a helmet as well; (Alpine climbs I always wear one, where there is the risk of a rockfall)

The cry to "always wear a helmet" is akin to "Never drink and drive". How many of you have driven home after even 1 drink ? Judging by a lot of photos, I'd say most have.

ITMT, the discussion is going on, "Do you always wear Pads"? Many say yes.


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## C S (Sep 26, 2007)

No, I don't *always* wear a helmet, but the times that I don't are generally short cruises after tuning up one of my bikes. XC riding? XC lid. DH/FR? Full-face helmet. I will not ride with anyone who doesn't wear a helmet because I don't want to be responsible for getting someone to a hospital with serious injuries that could have been prevented by wearing a helmet. It is funny that I read this thread for the first time today because I had a crash that would have certainly sent me to the ER without my FF on. On an easy part of a DH trail (shared at this point with an XC trail) on a minor descent, I managed to go over the bars and land in a bunch of rocks. Why? I got a little distracted and overly comfortable with this part of the trail. It happens to almost everyone, whether it results in a crash or not.



HotBlack said:


> This thread's got people assuming that everyone rides like we did when we were noobs, people assuming that because they got in over their head and landed on it, that they have experience no one else has (how precious), assuming everyone values human life as much as they do, assuming that people are all here indefinitely, assuming we're all content or able to wait for death to find us at old age (more costly than dying young from head trauma anyway, for those of you only concerned with your money), assuming that this country's medical system would work if it weren't for (fill in the blank), and on and on the contrived reaching goes.
> 
> Jayem's notion that it affects society around you, is a good start. EVERYTHING you do affects those around you. Actions all ripple out, but all cause someone to gain and someone to lose.
> 
> Everyone knows helmets add a minimal level of protection to your life when riding.


Hmmm. Where to start? Based on this post, I am guessing that you don't actually value your life. And that's your own choice, but I sure as hell don't want to be the one who finds you after you split your head on a rock. And you know what? If you do wind up dead or seriously injured because you chose to ride without a helmet, lawyers are probably going to get involved. Not necessarily because your family or anyone related to you decided to sue, but because there are a lot of people out there who would love to get bikes banned from many trails and such an incident would provide them with some ammunition. I know it is hard for you to accept, but not everything is about you and your ability to make choices that could cost you your life.

"Content or able to wait for death to find us at old age" - Again, you (or anyone else) would actually want to die in a bike crash?  Personally, I'd rather live to ride another day.

"Helmets add a minimal level of protection to your life when riding?" Tell that to a friend of mine who took a large chunk out of his helmet in an accident a couple of weeks ago. He was back on the bike today :thumbsup: , but he probably would have been dead if he believed as you do that helmets add a minimal level of protection to your life and chose not to wear one


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## TXPhisher (Oct 30, 2006)

I always wear my helmet on the trails. Anything can happen, from some idiot flying around a corner the wrong way to having a massive blowout. Trees don't move, and my education is worth a lot more than the minor inconvenience of wearing a helmet.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

I never wear a helmet...helmets are a recipe for disaster for me, I've been riding bikes for 33 years...never bumped my head, not once...and the few times I did bump my head I was wearing a helmet...that tells me if I wear one I'm gonna get hurt, so I dont.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

jeffgothro said:


> I never wear a helmet...helmets are a recipe for disaster for me, I've been riding bikes for 33 years...never bumped my head, not once...and the few times I did bump my head I was wearing a helmet...that tells me if I wear one I'm gonna get hurt, so I dont.


Where is it that you don't wear a helmet? When you're not riding your bike I hope. I used to hate helmets because they felt clunky and heavy on my head. Still do sometimes. But they absorb bumps a lot better than the skull. So I take the bitter with the sweet and wear one whenever I ride my bike. you gotta shop real good and get one that fits you to a T. then you end up liking them.---zarr


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

zarr said:


> Where is it that you don't wear a helmet? When you're not riding your bike I hope. I used to hate helmets because they felt clunky and heavy on my head. Still do sometimes. But they absorb bumps a lot better than the skull. So I take the bitter with the sweet and wear one whenever I ride my bike. you gotta shop real good and get one that fits you to a T. then you end up liking them.---zarr


I live in southern california. It doesnt matter if I'm at a trails (slang for bmx jumps - not the single track known as trails here in the forum), riding on the street, at a park...I never bump my head...I promise you though, the second I put a helmet on I'm gonna bump my head...almost happens without fail. Dont ask me how or why, I ride no different with or w/ out one...just sort of a murphys law with me. :eekster:


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

I might add...I encourage wearing a helmit...and if its really dangerous or compition I wear one...but most of my riding is commuter stuff (I'm getting old - cant ride like a madman anymore) and light DJ'ing/park/trails and I dont usually do anything to dangerous (I dont think). As it is right now I dont even own a helmit. 

One reason I dont is because I look like a freekin dork...I mean SUPER SUPER dork...never found a mt bike helmit that actually fit my head even trying them on in the shop with assistance, I have a weird shaped head (although it looks normal) but I put a helmit on and it looks like its like sitting an inch above my head, like as if I bundled up a rag or something and stuck it in the helmit before putting it on. Heck...I cant even wear baseball caps backwards because of the way they sit on my head, the bill almost wants to creep down the back of my shirt..


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## Big Daddy MTB (Apr 3, 2008)

Are you an English teacher? Or just anal? I do wear my helmet almost all the time. Sometimes I take my full face helmet off when I am just rolling around the end of as dual slalom race or at the end of a downhill run. I noticed it scratches the helmet and bike really bad when I hang it on the bars. I guess I should stop doing that. I never ride on the road or xc bike without a helmet on ever. It feels odd to not have a helmet on when riding.


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## Indiefab (Feb 5, 2005)

Some of the excuses used to justify not wearing a helmet are laughable. I've heard more convincing arguments for why someone continues to smoke. 

On a positive note, I'm happy to see more pros like Minaar using the helmet retention system for competitions and high-speed runs. Helmets protect the head, but your neck is on its own. Too many bad neck injuries on the DH race courses as of late. Unfortunately, the semi-pros and privateers aren't known for being able to afford the best health insurance. Better to have an ounce of prevention.


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## Big Daddy MTB (Apr 3, 2008)

I was at my moms a few weeks ago after riding at N*. She couldn't believe how many helmets were in my car. They all really live there and rarely make it into the house. I had the XC, Road, Dirt jumper and FF DH. The FF was the most beat up and the road and XC could probably be mistaken as new except for the sweaty smell. Knock on wood but never needed the road helmets but the MTB helmets are priceless.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Well...its my head right? :thumbsup:

BTW...I smoke to.


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## Dogbrain (Mar 4, 2008)

I eat it pretty regularly on the trails so the mtb helmets I've been through have all been worth it. I've never bonked it that hard, but they have certainly saved me from stitches. I didn't used to wear one around town, but a few years ago a good friend's SO fell off a skateboard, bumped his head, and died. Not right away, he was bleeding and so his SO had to have a friend help load him into the car and drive to the hospital (where they were it would have taken longer for an ambulance). After holding him all the way to the hospital, he died in brain surgery. Granted he was going down a hill and had some speed, but we aren't talking about competitive longboarding or anything, I definitely go that fast on my bike. Its all about _how_ you fall, and he just happened to fall the wrong way. Then I also thought about how easy it would be to get brain damaged even if you survive. TXPhisher already called it, my education is worth more than a minor inconvenience. Now I wear my helmet 100% of the time. As for those who say it offers minimal protection, tell that to Nicole, who had to pick up James' helmet and put it in a box with his things after he died... the helmet that would have in fact saved his life. He didn't break a single other bone or have any internal injuries other than head trauma. Not face trauma, head trauma.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Dogbrain said:


> I eat it pretty regularly on the trails so the mtb helmets I've been through have all been worth it. I've never bonked it that hard, but they have certainly saved me from stitches. I didn't used to wear one around town, but a few years ago a good friend's SO fell off a skateboard, bumped his head, and died. Not right away, he was bleeding and so his SO had to have a friend help load him into the car and drive to the hospital (where they were it would have taken longer for an ambulance). After holding him all the way to the hospital, he died in brain surgery. Granted he was going down a hill and had some speed, but we aren't talking about competitive longboarding or anything, I definitely go that fast on my bike. Its all about _how_ you fall, and he just happened to fall the wrong way. Then I also thought about how easy it would be to get brain damaged even if you survive. TXPhisher already called it, my education is worth more than a minor inconvenience. Now I wear my helmet 100% of the time. As for those who say it offers minimal protection, tell that to Nicole, who had to pick up James' helmet and put it in a box with his things after he died... the helmet that would have in fact saved his life. He didn't break a single other bone or have any internal injuries other than head trauma. Not face trauma, head trauma.


I felt that story. And I hope others will too. If I had to strap a bucket on my head I'd do it. You gotta have head protection. And gloves too. Before I go, i just wanna tell everyone to learn CPR. Even if a person is not breathing, continue to get oxygen to the body until help arrives. after about 9 or 10 minutes without oxygen, even if the person is revived, theres like a 90% surety they will have brain damage. Heck, they should teach this in elementary school. Take care.---zarr


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## towers07 (Dec 15, 2007)

iv never fallen off my bike and hit my head and iv been riding for about 2-3 years


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## Indiefab (Feb 5, 2005)

towers07 said:


> iv never fallen off my bike and hit my head and iv been riding for about 2-3 years


You are the exact person this post is about. Hundreds of people are giving their opinions based on decades more experience than you have. Is it sinking in yet?

An jeffgo, yes, it is your head. But pick somewhere else other than my trails to bash it in. The trails here are owned by the city and one major brain injury could be enough for them to decide its not worth their liability.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

The trails are owned by you...the city uses your tax dollars to maintain it I'm sure. Perhaps you should take it up with the city counsel that helmits are mandatory and those caught not using them can be fined. Just a suggestion.

As far as me using a helmet...I stand by what I said, 33 years zero head injurys...unless of course I was actually wearing one at the time, my track record speaks for itself, I am generally a very careful and responsible rider w/ or w/ out one even when I'm dangerous.


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## marzjennings (Jan 3, 2008)

I do wear a helmet almost every time I hit the dirt, but not so much on the road or bike paths. In the minor crashes I've had I feel a helmet has helped prevent cuts and bruises to my head, but in in all the major wipe outs I've had I can't really say a helmet helped. During a race in 2004 I lost it in a corner and flew straight into a tree, pretty much head first. I came off feeling dizzy and with a lot of pain to my neck and shoulders, injuries that I feel would have occurred with or without a helmet. There's mounting research that cycle helmets can increase risk of the most serious types of head injury through rotational brain injury.

What I like to see is a full face helmet that's cool enough to wear riding XC in 100f weather. 

It's annoying when folks ask for legislation for helmet use when there's little or no documented evidence to support their prevention of serious brain injury or death.


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## Qatarbhoy (Jun 13, 2008)

Why not cycle straight into a tree without a helmet on and compare the medical notes?

There are plenty of people on this thread who have testified to a helmet saving them from serious injury or even death. A colleague of mine would be dead had he not worn a cycle helmet.

I wear mine for my 2.5km commute and for trail riding, but not when checking my derailleurs are properly adjusted by cycling a little way up and down my street. i might wear a helmet even then based on what i've read by previous posters. setting a safe example to younger riders is important. it's considered highly irresponsible these days to drive when drunk or travel in a car without a seatbelt on, and so it should be. hopefully cycling without a helmet will also go the way of the dinosaurs and more preventable deaths and injuries will be avoided.

as for helmets being hot, i cycle in temperatures over 100F. the sweat dripping out of the lid afterwards tells me it was a decent ride! :thumbsup: 

NB remember to get your helmet replaced after it's taken a knock, and after every 2-3 years. and don't leave them in the sun, say on the back seat of your car... they don't last forever. it would be shame to wear a helmet every time you cycle, only for it to be so old or compromised by a previous bash that it doesn't help should an accident occur.


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## Manning (Apr 11, 2007)

I've been riding for 30-35 years now. Never once have I hit my head on the ground due to a bicycle crash (have 2x during motorcycle crashes). I don't understand why I haven't, but it's true. Raced BMX, road, mtb, motorcyle mx and plenty of street riding over the years.

I always wear a helmet cause it's the intelligent & responsible thing for me to do. [don't get me started on the Harley motorcycle dudes that ride in flip-flops, shorts and a wife beater, without a helmet. That's so incredibly stupid.]

If someone can rationalize why not to wear a helmet, whatever.

My helmet has prevented dings in my head from not ducking that last 1/2" under a tree, or railing a corner with a bit too much lean and whacking a tree.....


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## Dogbrain (Mar 4, 2008)

marzjennings said:


> During a race in 2004 I lost it in a corner and flew straight into a tree, pretty much head first. I came off feeling dizzy and with a lot of pain to my neck and shoulders, injuries that I feel would have occurred with or without a helmet. There's mounting research that cycle helmets can increase risk of the most serious types of head injury through rotational brain injury.


You're right, those other injuries would have occurred without a helmet. By the time the force is dissipated into your neck the helmet has already served its function. The purpose of a helmet is simply to take a "point force" and distribute it over a larger surface area, while absorbing a little bit of the impusle. Had you not been wearing a helmet, in addition to your neck and shoulder pain, you would have at the very least had a large bump and some blood, and at the worst (more likely if you were really racing and really went head first) a fractured skull.

I haven't read all of the posts, just sort of browsed. Somebody may already have posted a link to this thread. This guy definitely wished he had put his on for the trip around the neighborhood.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=111566

Also, can you cite this mounting research that says helmets increase risk of injury?


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## crashedandburned (Jan 9, 2004)

I can think of at least one time a helmet probably saved my life. Or at least becoming a vegetable. I was riding down a nice, technical rock garden. Black Bear trail In Kanawha Forest for those of you that know the place. I hit a rock and endo’ed. Landed head first right on a rock. Not a flat rock either. When I removed my helmet and look where it hit, the helmet was trashed. Then I looked at the rock. I noticed that I hit a particularly sharp, pointy rock. If I hadn’t been wearing my helmet, that point would’ve been in my skull. Would it have broken my skull? I think there was a really good chance of it, but if nothing else, it would’ve hurt like hell! Probably would’ve been “found” out in the woods.

I’m so use to wearing a helmet nowadays, it’s no biggie to me. Have to wear one if I commute to the base for work. If nothing else, $40 for a few yrs of protection is cheap. I’m all for letting those that ride decide though. They know what’s up.


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## pistolero (Jun 4, 2008)

I wear a helmet any time I go to the trails, not always around the neighborhood. 

How about we all melt down our bikes and turn them into armor and walk. That would cut down on LOTS of accidents, no? Ha! Aluminum and steel helmets would be hella safe, if a little heavy. 
Biking is apparently an inherently risky activity.
Just watch out on the extremist-rabidly-pro helmet stuff. If it is so dangerous to ride why not take it all the way?
Why stop at just a helmet? Why not make them all FF carbon fiber? 
Why don't we make it a LAW you can't get on your bike period without full armor head to toe? :bluefrown: Then when people still get injured we can totally ban bicycles, then motorcycles. If you don't climb up on it you can't fall down and hurt your precious face can you?


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

pistolero said:


> I wear a helmet any time I go to the trails, not always around the neighborhood.
> 
> How about we all melt down our bikes and turn them into armor and walk. That would cut down on LOTS of accidents, no? Ha! Aluminum and steel helmets would be hella safe, if a little heavy.
> Biking is apparently an inherently risky activity.
> ...


With technology today there are other light weight materials that can be used...like kevlar shells...I dont remember the name of the material and I saw it on the science or discovery channel or something but there is a new cloth type material under development made for bullet proof vest that can be made very light and thin and will actually stop bullets. I'm thinking take this cloth, mabie put it over a helmit shell and perhpas apply a fiberglass type resin...and...volla.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

zarr said:


> I felt that story. And I hope others will too. If I had to strap a bucket on my head I'd do it. You gotta have head protection. And gloves too. Before I go, i just wanna tell everyone to learn CPR. Even if a person is not breathing, continue to get oxygen to the body until help arrives. after about 9 or 10 minutes without oxygen, even if the person is revived, theres like a 90% surety they will have brain damage. Heck, they should teach this in elementary school. Take care.---zarr


youre right on about everyone learning basic first aid and cpr, but its actually about 3-4 minutes until irreversible brain damage generally begins. 10 minutes of no oxygen = dead.

the "weight argument" for not wearing one is beyond vapid and baseless (along with 100% of the other reasons) and all are clearly indicative of there being nothing of value worth protecting under a helmet. my helmet is under 55 grams with virtually unrestricted airflow. thats lighter than an average size banana.

the only people who should wear a brain bucket are those who possess cranial contents of some value. period. end of story. but that point is moot, since these people have sense enough to realize the importance of wearing a skid lid.

unfortunately the others are usually able to spawn and contaminate/degenerate the human race before purging themselves from the gene pool via an incredible feat of stupidity.


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## marzjennings (Jan 3, 2008)

Dogbrain said:


> Also, can you cite this mounting research that says helmets increase risk of injury?


Here's the link where I found the information about rotational injuries which links to an extract from a paper.

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/mf.html?1039

I saw that thread where the guy smashed his face and head and while his injuries were horrific and I was glad to him make a full recovery with just minor scaring, I like to think a helmet may have made a difference, but I don't. I just don't have that much faith in compressed foam.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

marzjennings said:


> During a race in 2004 I lost it in a corner and flew straight into a tree, pretty much head first. I came off feeling dizzy and with a lot of pain to my neck and shoulders, injuries that I feel would have occurred with or without a helmet.


captain obvious wishes to point out that helmets are to protect the head, not the neck and shoulders.



marzjennings said:


> There's mounting research that cycle helmets can increase risk of the most serious types of head injury through rotational brain injury.


then provide it.

captain obvious wishes to point out that one abstract hardly counts as "mounting research", especially when it seems that you perhaps dont even understand what the abstract you provide is stating.

for example, bike helmets are not specifically designed to (nor can they) prevent intracranial brain movement resulting in subdural hemotomas and/or worse. the abstract you provided clearly states this...
_
"Cycle helmets are not designed to mitigate rotational injuries, and research has not shown them to be effective in doing so." _

in other words, research has shown that they do not provide a function which they are not designed to do. wow... brilliant reason to not wear a lid.

regardless of type (auto, motorcycle, etc.) no helmet is able to provide this type of protection. the "compressed foam", as you cavalierly dismiss it, is designed to absorb some of the energy to prevent it from being transferred to help diminish the effect of a sudden traumatic impact to the head. and similar to crumple zones in a car, yes they actually do that.

further more, "_some doctors have expressed concern_" is hardly "_mounting research_".

also, as the "_mounting research_" that you provided points out, rotational injuries count as a very small proportion of injuries sustained by cyclists, and it also was talking about road cyclists, which generally are traveling at a higher rate of speed. and most times there are mitigating circumstances as well, such as vehicle collisions.

i will go read the other paper later and give a point by point analysis of the SEVEN YEAR OLD STUDY.



marzjennings said:


> I just don't have that much faith in compressed foam.


having destroyed several helmets in low speed impacts that left my melon intact, i do.

but if you truly dont, then please be kind enough to do a simple experiment for us, and have a buddy video it and post it to the thread.

step one: don a bike helmet and run towards a brick wall, lowering your head to make contact first.

step two: repeat step one sans helmet.

step three: sit on a cement slab wearing a helmet and let yourself fall backwards with your head making contact first.

step four: repeat step three sans helmet.

my guess is you wont do any, much less step two and four; yet a human generally only runs 7 mph. yet you think its wise to get on a bike and do 10-15 mph without one?

uh..... ok. :crazy:


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## marzjennings (Jan 3, 2008)

monogod said:


> captain obvious wishes to point out that helmets are to protect the head, not the neck and shoulders.
> 
> then provide it.
> 
> ...


Wow, did it hurt to produce all that crap in one dump.

I was going to attempt a lengthy reply to your nonsense, but then I realized you would be too stupid to understand it.

You're dumb example of an experiment and other comments, makes one point. All research and statistics are roadie based and it would be nice to see some tests done with regards to mountain bikers and helmets.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

marzjennings said:


> Wow, did it hurt to produce all that crap in one dump.
> 
> I was going to attempt a lengthy reply to your nonsense, but then I realized you would be too stupid to understand it.
> 
> You're dumb example of an experiment and other comments, makes one point. All research and statistics are roadie based and it would be nice to see some tests done with regards to mountain bikers and helmets.


Oh my god. ! I just got back from a tour of Copenhagen and Amsterdam. We'd better send over a few thousand lawyers armed with briefcases full of statistics. They have no idea the kind of danger they're all in! Hundreds of thousands of people on bikes, all day, every day, and not one helmet! The horror of it compelled me to save them from their ignorance.

I stood on the busy corner by the big footbridge and proclaimed, on grounds of my intellectual and ethical superiority as an American, that morans so stoopid as to not wear one are were going to destroy their country, and probably ours, since they're all trying to come here, for our AWESOME health care. Strangely, my sincerest attempts at righting these inept backwater villagers were met with only blank stares and what seemed to be... indifference! I couldn't believe it. How arrogant of them, not to do as I say. It's really for their own good that they do.

Then I came back home, and rode down to the beach. What did I see? OUR OWN COUNTRY, going to hell in a handbasket. Yes my obedient, law-abiding friends. Somehow, word from these insidious non-safety-equipment-accessorized humanoids has travelled fast and far. This afternoon, I observed certainly no less than two thousand people out riding bikes all over town in the first sunshine we've had in a couple weeks. Again, NOT ONE HELMET!!! Just think of the rampant destruction! Widespread panic!!!


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

HotBlack said:


> Oh my god. ! I just got back from a tour of Copenhagen and Amsterdam. We'd better send over a few thousand lawyers armed with briefcases full of statistics. They have no idea the kind of danger they're all in! Hundreds of thousands of people on bikes, all day, every day, and not one helmet! The horror of it compelled me to save them from their ignorance.
> 
> I stood on the busy corner by the big footbridge and proclaimed, on grounds of my intellectual and ethical superiority as an American, that morans so stoopid as to not wear one are were going to destroy their country, and probably ours, since they're all trying to come here, for our AWESOME health care. Strangely, my sincerest attempts at righting these inept backwater villagers were met with only blank stares and what seemed to be... indifference! I couldn't believe it. How arrogant of them, not to do as I say. It's really for their own good that they do.
> 
> Then I came back home, and rode down to the beach. What did I see? OUR OWN COUNTRY, going to hell in a handbasket. Yes my obedient, law-abiding friends. Somehow, word from these insidious non-safety-equipment-accessorized humanoids has travelled fast and far. This afternoon, I observed certainly no less than two thousand people out riding bikes all over town in the first sunshine we've had in a couple weeks. Again, NOT ONE HELMET!!! Just think of the rampant destruction! Widespread panic!!!


To folks who know better and still don't wear a helmet: There's an old expression...A hard head makes a soft @ss. And here's another one: ...There's none so blind as those who won't see. I guess when you're on your way to the ground, you'll say,"Boy, I knew I should have had on a helmet...:skep:


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## crashedandburned (Jan 9, 2004)

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=249037 :thumbsup:


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

Saved my LIfe! 4 week ago my Fox Flux did it's job riding down a rock terraced ravine. I was very familiar with the trail and had been on it many times this season. Irregardless I hit a rock dropping into the second terrace. landed on my head over the bars doing down hill. I had severe trauma to my head, neck and spine. I had dizzyness nausea, severe pain, temporary no motor control over my body. I was medvaced to an er and was in the ICU 4 days w/ neck fracture and back fracture w/compressed vertebrae. not to mention the large lump on top of my head. it took over a week for that to go down. My helmet did it's job the top of the helmet flattened, the inner liner cracked, it absorbed the majority of the impact. Ive been told I was lucky by all the doctors and ICU nurses and that my protective gear saved my from catostrophic injuries. I also had knee/shin gaurds and large camelpack. Without the helmet my head would have been flattened and my neck broken. Ive been riding road forever and mt.bike single track for 5 years. this is not the first time I've crashed but it was the most life threatening Ive ever had. I'm urging everyone to wear a helmet. it may be hot and the plastic and foam may not look like much but they really do work. just saying...


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

nagatahawk said:


> Saved my LIfe! 4 week ago my Fox Flux did it's job riding down a rock terraced ravine. I was very familiar with the trail and had been on it many times this season. Irregardless I hit a rock dropping into the second terrace. landed on my head over the bars doing down hill. I had severe trauma to my head, neck and spine. I had dizzyness nausea, severe pain, temporary no motor control over my body. I was medvaced to an er and was in the ICU 4 days w/ neck fracture and back fracture w/compressed vertebrae. not to mention the large lump on top of my head. it took over a week for that to go down. My helmet did it's job the top of the helmet flattened, the inner liner cracked, it absorbed the majority of the impact. Ive been told I was lucky by all the doctors and ICU nurses and that my protective gear saved my from catostrophic injuries. I also had knee/shin gaurds and large camelpack. Without the helmet my head would have been flattened and my neck broken. Ive been riding road forever and mt.bike single track for 5 years. this is not the first time I've crashed but it was the most life threatening Ive ever had. I'm urging everyone to wear a helmet. it may be hot and the plastic and foam may not look like much but they really do work. just saying...


Hey Hawk- I saw an article in July 2008 Decline magazine (pg.58 on-) about a neck safety device called the "Leatt-Brace", made by Dr. Leatt.(leatt-brace.com) that might be worth checking out.---zarr


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

zarr said:


> Hey Hawk- I saw an article in July 2008 Decline magazine (pg.58 on-) about a neck safety device called the "Leatt-Brace", made by Dr. Leatt.(leatt-brace.com) that might be worth checking out.---zarr


I'll check it out. Probably won't need a helmet or a bike for a long time. I'm thinking maybe next season I maybe starting on easy bike path rides. I'm not feeling single track for now.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

zarr said:


> I guess when you're on your way to the ground, you'll say,"Boy, I knew I should have had on a helmet...:skep:


LOL! I just have to chime in with a relevant story from a different sport. Once I was out on canoe without wearing a life jacket. (It was on the bottom of the canoe, so I was legal, but legal <> safe). I was solo in the canoe. Wind caught the uplifted front. The canoe tipped, and I began an irreversible trajectory into the water. What zarr says above is exactly what I was thinking as I went under -- "I should've worn that life vest".

I hope I never let my self get in the position of saying the same thing about a bike helmet.

(And you can bet your bippy that I no longer leave my life vest laying in the bottom of the canoe. I wear it).


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

I see this is a big debate now and protection is always a compromise. Even if somebody wears a good helmet they could still get hurt and then somebody else will say it wasn't enough. It's what socially acceptable at the time more than anything. Who knows, in 20 years even casual MTBers will be wearing full face helmets and they'll be talking about how stupid people back in the 2000s were to wear open face. Similar to how we talk about when skid-lids were popular.

Anyway, I wear mine all the time unless it's on a long, slow climb.


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## marzjennings (Jan 3, 2008)

nagatahawk said:


> Saved my LIfe! 4 week ago my Fox Flux did it's job riding down a rock terraced ravine. I was very familiar with the trail and had been on it many times this season. Irregardless I hit a rock dropping into the second terrace. landed on my head over the bars doing down hill. I had severe trauma to my head, neck and spine. I had dizzyness nausea, severe pain, temporary no motor control over my body. I was medvaced to an er and was in the ICU 4 days w/ neck fracture and back fracture w/compressed vertebrae. not to mention the large lump on top of my head. it took over a week for that to go down. My helmet did it's job the top of the helmet flattened, the inner liner cracked, it absorbed the majority of the impact. Ive been told I was lucky by all the doctors and ICU nurses and that my protective gear saved my from catostrophic injuries. I also had knee/shin gaurds and large camelpack. Without the helmet my head would have been flattened and my neck broken. Ive been riding road forever and mt.bike single track for 5 years. this is not the first time I've crashed but it was the most life threatening Ive ever had. I'm urging everyone to wear a helmet. it may be hot and the plastic and foam may not look like much but they really do work. just saying...


Well, you believe 'irregardless' is a word and so of course you believe the helmet saved your life. 

About the only piece I'll go with is that the helmet may have saved you from greater trauma to your head.

It is ever so slighty possible that the helmet may have compounded the injury to your neck and not reduced it.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

zarr, 
checked out the leatt brace. it will work with full face helmets. to prevent froward or rear movent while wearing a full coverage helmet. I guess a Hanz device would be the solutions or a full body bubble to protect us from everything! kiddin aside the leat device with a ff helmet could give maximum protection for down hill.


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## Dogbrain (Mar 4, 2008)

marzjennings said:


> Here's the link where I found the information about rotational injuries which links to an extract from a paper.


You called an abstract an "extract" so you obviously do not read technical literature, which is probably related to your lack of logical thought formulation. BTW I read a few of the papers on that site and basically all they said was 1. helmets won't save you if you get hit by a car doing 50 mph and 2. the best way to make cycling safer is by driver awareness which I agree with. Its also a site dedicated to battling helmet laws, which I don't care about. Its a personal decision.



marzjennings said:


> You're dumb example of an experiment and other comments, makes one point.


You're *a* dumb person who cannot communicate clearly or make any reasonable conclusions from the technical literature you provided, and yet you nitpick about others communication? How long will it take marz to figure out whats wrong with the sentence above? Anybody want to start a side bet?



marzjennings said:


> I just don't have that much faith in compressed foam.


Well, as a Chemical Engineer with a pretty thorough understanding of polymer structure, I do.



marzjennings said:


> I was going to attempt a lengthy reply to your nonsense, but then I realized...


... that coughing up enough logic to even try to offer a reasonable response was more effort than your brain was capable of after reading that oh-so-tiring _extract_.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

nagatahawk said:


> zarr,
> checked out the leatt brace. it will work with full face helmets. to prevent froward or rear movent while wearing a full coverage helmet. I guess a Hanz device would be the solutions or a full body bubble to protect us from everything! kiddin aside the leat device with a ff helmet could give maximum protection for down hill.


Roger that. You should have seen a pic I saw in a mag about a guy that came up with a body airbag.Only problem was it deployed while he was riding to make him a blimp on wheels !  Maybe that's where the song "Rolling down a Mountainside" came from !


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

marzjennings said:


> Well, you believe 'irregardless' is a word and so of course you believe the helmet saved your life.
> 
> About the only piece I'll go with is that the helmet may have saved you from greater trauma to your head.
> 
> It is ever so slighty possible that the helmet may have compounded the injury to your neck and not reduced it.


your right! so next time I'll just wear no helmet . then I will have less injury to my neck and back.

I think someone already dropped you on your head.


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## marzjennings (Jan 3, 2008)

nagatahawk said:


> your right! so next time I'll just wear no helmet . then I will have less injury to my neck and back.
> 
> I think someone already dropped you on your head.


No, wear the helmet, I do on every ride, but I do so believing (as we have so few facts to work with here) that its use as a safety item is limited to fixed range. Bumps and bruises, scratches and cuts, superficial damage only. That's why I'd love for someone to build a true mountain bike helmet that has all the strength and protection of a full face DH lid, but is still light enough and cool enough to wear all the time.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

Marz, my appology
I get what your saying. full face helmets can add cause further injure to the neck. Hanz devices for auto racing. and there is a heath brace device for moto x. 

I agree with you that an light weight, full face helmet that flows air needs to be developed.
Specialize makes a ff helmet with more vents. some wear w/o the front padding for more air flow. 

I have a road helmet the Giro ionos that has massive vents and flows large quantities of air. It has carbon filer strips to keep the strength up and weight down. this technology can be applied to a ff helmet with large vents carbon strips and carbon front gaurd that flows more air. it would look similar to the Specialized but larger vents and carbon strips built in to keep the strength and entegrety of the helmet and keep the weight down.

who know maybe it is in the design works of Giro. if we are lucky


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

marzjennings said:


> Well, you believe 'irregardless' is a word and so of course you believe the helmet saved your life.


linky



marzjennings said:


> About the only piece I'll go with is that the helmet may have *absolutely* saved you from greater trauma to your head.


now the sentence is accurate.



marzjennings said:


> It is ever so slighty possible that the helmet may have compounded the injury to your neck and not reduced it.


helmets are not designed, intended, nor would any reasonably sane person imagine they would somehow reduce neck injuries.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

mono,
I agree the helmet is for the head.


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

My son hit a parked car going balls-out-fast when he was little. He got banged up pretty bad but nothing serious. I'm sure his helmet saved him from a major injury since it was basically broke in half and his head wasn't.


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## pistolero (Jun 4, 2008)

HotBlack said:


> Oh my god. ! I just got back from a tour of Copenhagen and Amsterdam. We'd better send over a few thousand lawyers armed with briefcases full of statistics. They have no idea the kind of danger they're all in! Hundreds of thousands of people on bikes, all day, every day, and not one helmet! The horror of it compelled me to save them from their ignorance.
> 
> I stood on the busy corner by the big footbridge and proclaimed, on grounds of my intellectual and ethical superiority as an American, that morans so stoopid as to not wear one are were going to destroy their country, and probably ours, since they're all trying to come here, for our AWESOME health care. Strangely, my sincerest attempts at righting these inept backwater villagers were met with only blank stares and what seemed to be... indifference! I couldn't believe it. How arrogant of them, not to do as I say. It's really for their own good that they do.
> 
> Then I came back home, and rode down to the beach. What did I see? OUR OWN COUNTRY, going to hell in a handbasket. Yes my obedient, law-abiding friends. Somehow, word from these insidious non-safety-equipment-accessorized humanoids has travelled fast and far. This afternoon, I observed certainly no less than two thousand people out riding bikes all over town in the first sunshine we've had in a couple weeks. Again, NOT ONE HELMET!!! Just think of the rampant destruction! Widespread panic!!!


HOLY S***! It's a wonder any of them are alive, much less healthy and riding.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

pistolero said:


> HOLY S***! It's a wonder any of them are alive, much less healthy and riding.


I know! Having reread this thread, I am now 100% certain that if I were to return to either of those cities, all I would find would be a towering, gruesome orgy of mangled bicycles and bodies. Massive head trauma as far as the eye can see.

To ride without a helmet is to bring about total destruction to both the individual and society.

Cause it's the end of the world as we know it... it's the...


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## TrekFan (Apr 21, 2005)

i always wear my helmet, regardless of where or how long i ride. my philosophy is that some idiot squirrel could jump out at you at any time and cause you to crash. and crashing means the potential for injury. better safe than sorry


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## pistolero (Jun 4, 2008)

Can't we all just get along? 
Like I said we could all stay home instead of biking, cuts the potential for biking injuries way down.

Of course helmets are protective, of course it's a good idea to wear one most of/all of the time. Of course we could go back and forth at these extremes forever ,"helmets don't do anything for you" vs. "anyone riding without one deserves to spill their stupid brains anyway, I know I would have been dead a dozen times over because I've destroyed that many helmets and never got a scratch"
Hmmm maybe our heads are pretty tough and helmets are not much better than a paper bag, of course heads aren't replaceable either. 
Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle. Of course I don't want to see anyone, especially kids, suffer needlessly. Doesn't necessarily mean my IQ is less than my age either simply because I may have once rode a bike without a helmet on my head. Anything anyone says here doesn't change that no matter how militant his/her views on helmets are.
Like someone pointed out, we don't wear helmets in the shower, but people bust their heads there every day. Maybe someone should start a movement against standing up in showers when obviously sitting down in a tub is so much safer, "how dare those crazy shower people spill their brains and expect someone else to clean it up and take care of them, selfishly burdening our society's health care system" Sounds crazy don't it. But hey, wouldn't it be worth as long as it would lower "the potential for injury"?
Do you all wear kevlar gloves to slice food in the kitchen? Metatarsal steel toed work boots to mow the lawn? Why not? How could you argue against that? Too hot/uncomfortable/heavy? 
*NO EXCUSE! "How uncomfortable do you think it is to have your foot cut off with a lawnmower? You are so stupid you deserve to lose your feet anyway!!!"*
.


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## Manning (Apr 11, 2007)

Lawnmowers have to meet an industry standard for blade access/guarding. You were doing OK up until that one........


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## pistolero (Jun 4, 2008)

So what? It's just an example. There is still plenty of "potential for injury" there. I know of several incidents where mowers have thrown nails, rocks, etc. into the feet of people I know. We could do this forever, just trying to make a point.
We could post up a bunch of terrible stories about broken skulls on bathtubs and post gruesome pics of the results. All kinds of gore from missiles generated by mowers. BUT we still won't wear a helmet in the bathroom and we'll still mow in sneakers. Only difference is there won't be a bunch of rabid folks saing they deserved what happened because of a lack of safety gear.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

the lawmower example is a lame comparison to mountain biking. 

for one thing you actually have to try fairly hard to get a body part under the mowing deck and into contact with the blade.

for another, mtb'ing has far more variables such as speed, terrain, skill level, etc. than does mowing the lawn. an appropriate comparison to mtb'ing would be the guy who is running behind a push mower with no blade kill handle over rough and/or sloping terrain. and even then if he falls the mower will most likely keep going and not make contact. unless of course the guy is running the mower UPHILL. in which case no, i dont feel sorry for the operator for the resultant injuries.

and yes, its hard to feel sorry for someone who gets shrapnel injuries from mowing because they were too lazy/stupid/apathetic to avoid running over things in their yard.

imho the shower example is lame too. if someone is too lazy/stupid/apathetic to get some cheap shower traction strips for the floor of their shower and use common sense getting in/out of the shower then its hard to feel pity on them for slipping in the shower.

in fact, the shower is a great example of how just a little bit of common sense PREVENTION can help to protect one in a potentially dangerous environment rife with the opportunity for injury.

for the shower.... install traction strips. dont hop out of the shower onto hard surface flooring. will this protect one from all injury in the shower? no. but it certainly will reduce the chance of injury.

for the bike... keep it maintained. wear a helmet. will this protect one from all injury while biking? no. but it certainly will reduce the chance of a head injury should an accident occur.

im amazed at the number of people who otherwise seem to possess intelligence and common sense yet refuse to wear helmets and argue that they dont really do any good anyway. man, the gene pool needs a good dose of chlorine.

lastly, imho the whole tirade about how many people in europe dont wear one was pretty lame as well. it doesnt matter how many miles you RIDE without a helmet. 

all that matters is the one time you FALL without it. :thumbsup:


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

monogod said:


> im amazed at the number of people who otherwise seem to possess intelligence and common sense yet refuse to wear helmets and argue that they dont really do any good anyway. man, the gene pool needs a good dose of lysergic acid diethylamide.


Fixed! :thumbsup:


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

jeffgothro said:


> Fixed! :thumbsup:


your tagline says it all. :thumbsup:


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

monogod said:


> your tagline says it all. :thumbsup:


Bows...why thank you! 

I been reading your post to, I know your type...your one of those guys with the self inflated ego whom thinks your gods gift to mt biking.

Good luck with that.


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## pistolero (Jun 4, 2008)

monogod said:


> and yes, its hard to feel sorry for someone who gets shrapnel injuries from mowing because they were too lazy/stupid/apathetic to avoid running over things in their yard.
> 
> * Jeez dude that's a little harsh. Fail to see a nail/wire whatever in thick grass=lazy/stupid/pathetic?*
> 
> ...


...


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Anyway moving on...why the hot debate here anyway, the bickering and arguing...if a person chooses to wear a helmit or not wear a helmit thats on them, after all, its there head, really, what concern is it to anyone, IMHO people should worry more about themselves instead of worring about what everybody else is doing. Plain and simple!


/thread


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## GRGO (May 4, 2008)

Manning said:


> Lawnmowers have to meet an industry standard for blade access/guarding. You were doing OK up until that one........


And real men immediately take all that crap off to make the mower lighter.

;-)


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## rabidweasel999 (Oct 22, 2006)

jeffgothro said:


> your one of those guys with the self inflated ego whom thinks your gods gift to mt biking.


+1

Honestly, if you want to, wear one, if you don't want to, don't wear one, but you don't have to preach to me about how I'm committing suicide/stupid/lazy/not eco-friendly/a debt to society/a burden on health care if I don't.

Simple as that.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

monogod said:


> the lawmower - I win.
> I win
> I win
> imho the shower - I win
> ...


Ohhh you... you and your :thumbsup: . It makes everything you say so cute. It was pretty lame why? Cause as far as I can tell, it's the exact scenario you're arguing against. People, riding bikes, without helmets, all being doomed to certain death.

Not only most of europe, but china, india, africa, south america... oh whaddya know, the entire rest of the world, relies on bicycles ten hells of a lot more than we do for daily transportation, and the stunningly overwhelming vast vast majority (as in, you're usually hard pressed to find an example that runs counter) do not wear helmets. Ever. Yet, no great heaps of cadavers sporting the latest in fashionable head trauma.

Jumping to idiotic extremes, I could also say that Americans are such physically unfit people that they indeed need helmets, and should consider elbow and kneepads, and shower straps and big freakin padded SUV's, live in womb-like homes, etc...

Or that I'm intentionally riding without a helmet simply to spite you pomous gits, so when I fall and get mildly injured, I WILL sue the hell out of everybody and everything, and rack up a huge debt and bugger our medicare and skewer our government, all just because, well, I don't like you.

Of course, there's also the very good possiblity that I haven't done a ride in 25 years of MTBing without a helmet, but just enjoy seeing overzealous newbs get their panties in a wad when they're doling out advice.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

pistolero - please learn how to format your posts. it makes communication much more pleasant and easy to respond to.

also, you are over generalizing (and thus mis-stating) my position and offering yet more vapid, fatuous mass generalizations. 

i never said that all who dont wear helmets should be removed from the gene pool. i said that it is hard to feel sorry for people who sustain injuries because they are too lazy/stupid/apathetic to take common sense precautions. be that cycling, mowing, showering, working on their vehicle, crossing the street, etc.

it is impossible to insulate one's self from all forms of injury, and i am not suggesting otherwise. but it is ludicrous to argue that helmets are of no value simply because millions of people a day ride a bike without one with no detriment. again, it matters not how many miles one safely rides without a helmet. all that matters is the one time one's head hits the pavement, curb, ground, etc. without one.

i used to ride sport bikes back in the 80's and early 90's and ive logged tens of thousands of miles of high speed, reckless, canister dragging, wheelie riding miles with no helmet. does this mean helmets do not protect against injury? no. does this mean the times i wiped out without one and didnt split my head like a tomato thrown against a brick wall mean that helmets offer no benefit? no.

but one night i was out riding wearing only running shorts, tennis shoes, and gloves and totaled my bike at high speed. only this night i was wearing a full face because the bugs were really bad (full moon). and this night i hit my head against the curb hard enough to split the helmet.

would the thousands of miles i had previously ridden without one and suffered no injury protected me then? no. all those times didnt count. what mattered was at that time i had one on and was able to walk... well limp away from the wreck.

the point is that it does not matter how many people are doing something stupid without being injured, nor does it matter how often they do it.

all that matters is the one time that YOUR HEAD comes in contact with the ground without a helmet.

then all the sudden a helmet wont seem so useless, will it?


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

rabidweasel999 said:


> Honestly, if you want to, wear one, if you don't want to, don't wear one, but you don't have to preach to me about how I'm committing suicide/stupid/lazy/not eco-friendly/a debt to society/a burden on health care if I don't.


im not telling anyone to wear one. nor do i think there should be helmet laws for bikes or motorcycles. a person has the constitutional right to make stupid decisions or make choices that could or do have detrimental personal outcome. thats called freedom.

but that freedom also means that the rest of us have the freedom from being burdened with picking up the tab for it (i.e. the health care/rehab).

do i think not wearing one is a stupid decision? i think thats quite obvious.

but we are discussing the logic BEHIND wearing or not wearing one, not whether or not everyone should wear one or be forced to wear one. so dont confuse the two.

imho the logic thus far presented for not taking a simple safety precaution that could very well save one's life or prevent one from becoming a human turnip is vapid, fatuous, specious, and asinine. that is not saying that those who dont wear one are any of the above. im saying that i do not value nor agree with any of the arguments used to rationalize not wearing a helmet.

look at it this way. if you KNEW that you were going to wipe out, would you rather have a helmet on or not? when i ride, i dont know what is going to happen so i wear one. accidents are unexpected, thats why they arent called "intentionals".

because im not a socialist/communist/marxist i believe that if someone suffers a catastrophic closed or open head injury while not wearing a helmet they should not receive any sort of health care that is paid for by society at large. their health care and/or rehab should be limited to their own or their family's ability to pay.

people have the right to make stupid choices, but they should also be responsible for the outcome. why should other people have to pick up the tab to keep some genius who refused to wear a helmet alive? why should society have to pay for rehabilitation for someone who suffered a serious head injury from a minor fall that would have most likely been prevented by wearing a helmet?

i will forever vehemently disagree that society at large should have to pick up the tab for the stupidity of its citizens who willingly and knowing make stupid choices.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

jeffgothro said:


> Anyway moving on...why the hot debate here anyway, the bickering and arguing...if a person chooses to wear a helmit or not wear a helmit thats on them, after all, its there head, really, what concern is it to anyone, IMHO people should worry more about themselves instead of worring about what everybody else is doing. Plain and simple!


your argument fails because others have to pick up the tab when some moran that's too cool to wear a helmet becomes a veggie and needs direct care for the next 50+ years and THE REST OF US HAVE TO PICK UP THE TAB!

so yeah, that kind of does give others the right to have strong opinions about a topic.

again, i have never said that there should be laws requiring helmet use nor have i ever told anyone (including the ppl i ride with who refuse to wear one) they should wear one.

what i said was imho its a stupid choice and a poor gamble. its a poor gamble because one doesnt gain ANYTHING the plethora of times they win and dont bonk their head without a lid, but stand to lose EVERYTHING the one time they do bonk their head without one.

life is full of gambles. but why make stupid ones? why not hedge one's bets whenever one can?



jeffgothro said:


> I been reading your post to, I know your type...your one of those guys with the self inflated ego whom thinks your gods gift to mt biking.


so calling stupid "stupid" (i.e. biking with no helmet) equates to having a self inflated ego?

uh... yeah. that makes about as much sense as dosing the gene pool with lucy.

and btw, when you want to insult someone at least use the correct forms of the words and/or use spell check. gives it more bite. oh thats right... your tagline. never mind.


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## rabidweasel999 (Oct 22, 2006)

All right, then, here's your argument.

- I don't feel like it.
- I'm just foolin' around in the grass when I don't wear one.
- I know it irritates people like you.

Speaking of formatting your posts, I would love it if you'd keep saying your big important words, but demonstrate an understanding of the "shift" key beyond that of a typical nine-year-old.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

monogod said:


> because im not a socialist/communist/marxist i believe i shouldn't have to pay for anyone but myself.


I think I just spit popcorn out my nose. If in your book, that makes one a socialist, a communist, or a marxist, (which one are you most afraid of?) you're a bigger socialist than you ever thought. You would have zero health care if it were not already largely socialized. Nor would you have roads. Or oil & gas for your car. Or cars. Or indoor plumbing, or electric, or food. and soon, a mortgage. But I'm sure you don't use any of those things either.

In case you hadn't noticed, your once-popular, entirely quaint notion of how ungodly expensive reasearch, technologies, goods & services are created and distributed was out-performed in every way by methods wherein the risks were socialized, and the rewards were privatized. On such a large scale as health care, energy, transportation, and food, there hasn't been the free market you conservatives babble on about since the industrial revolution. And you should know. You guys were the ones who changed it.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

monogod said:


> so calling stupid "stupid" (i.e. biking with no helmet) equates to having a self inflated ego?
> 
> uh... yeah. that makes about as much sense as dosing the gene pool with lucy.
> 
> and btw, when you want to insult someone at least use the correct forms of the words and/or use spell check. gives it more bite. oh thats right... your tagline. never mind.


This is coming from a guy who online calls himself god...mmmhmmm...ok pal, whatever you say!

You pretty much just proved my original point!



monogod said:


> wait, i stand corrected. there was the guy who tried to offer proof that wearing a helmet is more dangerous than not wearing one. but other than him...


And I made that statement in referance to myself...I never told anyone that was a pill they should take or they should do what I do...perhaps its you who needs a refresher course in reading comprehension at plow-f**k high school or whatever rock you crawled out from under. Its my head, get over it!



monogod said:


> your argument fails because others have to pick up the tab when some moran that's too cool to wear a helmet becomes a veggie and needs direct care for the next 50+ years and THE REST OF US HAVE TO PICK UP THE TAB!


Well...I hate to burst your bubble, but I'm disabled and get insurance, your picking up the tab wether I bust my head on my bike or in the shower tub...so there it is there.

Good day sir!


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

HotBlack said:


> Ohhh you... you and your :thumbsup: . It makes everything you say so cute. It was pretty lame why? Cause as far as I can tell, it's the exact scenario you're arguing against. People, riding bikes, without helmets, all being doomed to certain death.


then your reading comprehension sucks. i never said that. i never implied that. in fact, given the verbosity and elucidation with which i have presented my point of view it is clearly impossible that anyone with even rudimentary reading comprehension could infer that.

what i said was one is far more likely to suffer a catastrophic head injury without one, thus i believe that all arguments and metaphoric scenarios with mowers and showering used against wearing lids are utterly, wholly, and completely without any merit or common sense.

doesnt make me better than the people who present them, nor does it personally impugn them in any way. just means that i disagree.



HotBlack said:


> Not only most of europe, but china, india, africa, south america... oh whaddya know, the entire rest of the world, relies on bicycles ten hells of a lot more than we do for daily transportation, and the stunningly overwhelming vast vast majority (as in, you're usually hard pressed to find an example that runs counter) do not wear helmets. Ever. Yet, no great heaps of cadavers sporting the latest in fashionable head trauma.


logical fallacy. appeal to popularity.

simple fact: people who wreck suffer a far greater chance of head injury without a helmet than with one. period.

i doubt there is anyone on this forum who, lacking the most basic common sense, would argue that point.

wait, i stand corrected. there was the guy who tried to offer proof that wearing a helmet is more dangerous than not wearing one. but other than him...

the bottom line is that it is wholly irrelevant how many millions of people around the world RIDE (not wreck) their bikes every day without wearing a helmet. so millions of people gamble every day and win.

are you saying this negates the ones who gamble and lose by wrecking without a helmet and thus suffering permanent brain damage or death? not even forest gump would go there.

so your above argument is specious at its core, and has no bearing or relevance to the topic at hand. now if you could point to millions of people around the world who are falling off their bikes every day and landing on their heads without helmets suffering zero detriment, then you might have a position with some merit.

but alas, that is not the case.



HotBlack said:


> Or that I'm intentionally riding without a helmet simply to spite you pomous gits, so when I fall and get mildly injured, _I WILL sue the hell out of everybody and everything, and rack up a huge debt and bugger our medicare and skewer our government_, all just because, well, I don't like you.


i doubt you would do it just because you dont like me, but i have no doubt that you and/or others would do it. AND THIS I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH.

so you make a stupid choice to gamble with your life/safety and dont wear a helmet and lose. then you sue everyone. resulting in higher costs for consumers. higher insurance rates. more taxes. more money out of my pocket because you decided to be a fuktard and expect someone else to pick up the tab.

i dont care if you ride with or without a helmet. i just dont want to pay for any consequences resultant to your choices. YOU should do that. and if you or your family cant afford it, tough noogies.

if people and their families were held fiscally responsible for their own actions more personal responsibility and wise choices would be made. but as it is, why SHOULD you care if you hurt yourself due to your own stupidity? after all, its someone else's fault and they will pay the tab via frivolous lawsuits, high taxation, and leeching of the gubments teat.

thanks.

tell me something... how do you like the fact that a large chunk of the money you earn and spend is going to recompense the tards for their own stupid choices?

personally... i think it sucks.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

rabidweasel999 said:


> All right, then, here's your argument.
> 
> - I don't feel like it.
> - I'm just foolin' around in the grass when I don't wear one.
> - I know it irritates people like you.


nope.

no offense dude, and i mean nothing personal by this, but i can only type the words... i cant make you intelligent enough to comprehend the clear, concise concept they convey.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

monogod said:


> then your reading comprehension sucks.


You really expect me to read all that after opening with that?

Have fun with the megalomania!

...wait for it...

...:thumbsup:


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## pistolero (Jun 4, 2008)

monogod said:


> im not telling anyone to wear one. nor do i think there should be helmet laws for bikes or motorcycles. a person has the constitutional right to make stupid decisions or make choices that could or do have detrimental personal outcome. thats called freedom.
> 
> but that freedom also means that the rest of us have the freedom from being burdened with picking up the tab for it (i.e. the health care/rehab).
> 
> ...


 Ah well, I actually agree 100% with that.
But not every accident is from being totally clueless/pathetic/stupid/assinine, although countless are. Sometimes accidents just happen.
Also many many people would say anyone riding a motorcycle or bicycle on the street at all is sticking your neck out and asking to get killed. If you got splattered all over the pavement tomorrow even through no real fault of your own, crossing the street on a bike those kind of folks would be posting on the internet just as smugly as you've argued here that you were obviously severely stupid/pathetic/moronic to be in that situation. "2000 lb. vehicle vs. 175lb man on bike = INCREDIBLY STUPID. That is obviously an avoidable injury!" How can you argue with that? 
It all just depends on your point of view, don't it?


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

Wow. A few people in each camp have gone off the deep end.


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## rabidweasel999 (Oct 22, 2006)

monogod said:


> nope.
> 
> no offense dude, and i mean nothing personal by this, but i can only type the words... i cant make you intelligent enough to comprehend the clear, concise concept they convey.


You're really just so proud of your vocabulary, aren't you?

All I'm sayin' is that if you're preaching about helmets, you might want to type your posts so that you don't come off like you yourself just staggered in from head trauma.


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## rabidweasel999 (Oct 22, 2006)

Razorfish said:


> Wow. A few people in each camp have gone off the deep end.


And some people that aren't in any camp! :crazy:


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

rabidweasel999 said:


> And some people that aren't in any camp! :crazy:


Thank you...lol


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

jeffgothro said:


> And I made that statement in referance to myself...I never told anyone that was a pill they should take or they should do what I do...perhaps its you who needs a refresher course in reading comprehension at plow-f**k high school or whatever rock you crawled out from under. Its my head, get over it!


relax, dude.

i have not made this personal with you or anyone else. perhaps i was in err to make light of your tagline and thus you felt like it then had to be a battle of personal insults. if so i offer an apology, because in your zeal to retort with the best insult you could muster i feel you have completely missed the gist of my position; which was not one of personally attacking you but of commenting on the line of logic/reasoning being used to rationalize/justify the choice to not wear a helmet.

i dont care what names you or anyone else calls me, i will always think that all logic/rationale in this vein is stupid, baseless, and utterly and wholly without merit.

but be that as it may, please go back and re-read the posts and you will see that not once did i suggest forcing people to wear helmets nor did i tell anyone to wear one.

quite the opposite, i am staunchly anti helmet legislation and pro freedom of personal choice. even when the choices may have negative personal impact/outcome.

but again, that freedom of personal choice carries with it personal responsibility; meaning the rest of us shouldnt have to pick up the tab when someone who chose not to take basic, common sense preventative measures is resultantly injured.



jeffgothro said:


> Well...I hate to burst your bubble, but I'm disabled and get insurance, your picking up the tab wether I bust my head on my bike or in the shower tub...so there it is there.


logically speaking then, since im picking up the tab i should be able to protect my investment and REQUIRE you to wear a helmet so i dont have to pay out even more to keep you on life support, provide total non-critical vegetative care, or provide you with housing and health care in a long term care facility due to injuries you receive by splatting your noodle in a bike wreck while not wearing a lid.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

HotBlack said:


> You really expect me to read all that after opening with that?


but we all know you did. and your lack of coherent response speaks volumes.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

HotBlack said:


> I think I just spit popcorn out my nose. If in your book, that makes one a socialist, a communist, or a marxist, (which one are you most afraid of?) you're a bigger socialist than you ever thought. You would have zero health care if it were not already largely socialized. Nor would you have roads. Or oil & gas for your car. Or cars. Or indoor plumbing, or electric, or food. and soon, a mortgage. But I'm sure you don't use any of those things either.


heres where it gets tricky. you post this completely off topic and factually devoid gibberish, yet if i respond to it point by point i get accused of thread jacking.

so i will just briefly respond by saying im not sure where you get your information, but it is highly inaccurate.

roads are paid for via gas taxes and vehicle registration fees and federal funds used to extort states into passing legislation which they would not otherwise write.

that federal money generally doesnt come from taxes, but is simply printed by the federal reserve bank (which is not a gubment agency) and loaned to the gubment at interest.

oil and gas are not subsidized either. in fact, to the contrary the gubment MAKES money off of oil and gas via taxation. in fact, the gubment makes more money off a gallon of gas than the refiner does, yet has none of the overhead.

the rest of your examples are equally erroneous, but since this is not f88 going into the details of each would be inappropriate and off topic. but the brief response above clearly demonstrates no foundation to your position.



HotBlack said:


> In case you hadn't noticed, your once-popular, entirely quaint notion of how ungodly expensive reasearch, technologies, goods & services are created and distributed was out-performed in every way by methods wherein the risks were socialized, and the rewards were privatized. On such a large scale as health care, energy, transportation, and food, there hasn't been the free market you conservatives babble on about since the industrial revolution. And you should know. You guys were the ones who changed it.


when this thread hits the recycle bin, as im sure it will, i will take this blatantly errant tripe apart piece by piece. im sure you are quite knowledgeable in many areas, but the above points are clearly not in that realm.

however, if you can hold it together and have a civil discourse i will look forward to and enjoy discussing it with you.

just so this post isnt completely off topic as was yours, i would like to add...

helmets = :thumbsup:


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

monogod said:


> relax, dude.
> 
> i have not made this personal with you or anyone else. perhaps i was in err to make light of your tagline and thus you felt like it then had to be a battle of personal insults. if so i offer an apology, because in your zeal to retort with the best insult you could muster i feel you have completely missed the gist of my position; which was not one of personally attacking you but of commenting on the line of logic/reasoning being used to rationalize/justify the choice to not wear a helmet.
> 
> ...


Ok sir...fair enough, I to apologize if I have cross some line with you as well, I dont really need to re-read what you wrote, I think I know where your coming from, and you make some valid points, I just dissagree with how you choosing to get your point across at times.

On your second point, yes logically speaking...however in doing so and shall we say "forcing" or "making" me wear a helmit when I choose not to infringes on my civil liberties and what this country was founded on and because its not a "law", so I hate to say it, but thats a double edged sword, thus it seems you agree yourself in a matter of speaking. I guess your just going to have to trust in my abilitys to properly ride a bicycle, w/ out a helmit unfortunatly, as of this writing I dont even own one at at this same moment cant afford one, perhaps in a month or two when Iget some bills paid first, I would like to meet up with some locals and do some rides, something I havent done in a very long time and should have a helmit for serious off-roading, even if I choose not to wear it 98% of the time, other then money and my own self rightousness I make no excuses.

Keep in mind I do advocate wearing them and I will wear one if I'm in compition or feel I will be in a situation dangerous enough to where I feel I need one, I'm not a complete moron.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

pistolero said:


> But not every accident is from being totally clueless/pathetic/stupid/assinine, although countless are. Sometimes accidents just happen.


and i agree 100% with that.

my point is that when an accident happens and injuries result from making stupid/asinine/pathetic choices the person responsible for making the choices should pick up the tab rather than society at large. so if someone is riding to work sans helmet and hits some gravel and takes a digger to the head, why should the rest of society pick up the tab? conversely, in the same scenario where a helmet was worn should society pick up the tab? this i dont have a problem with because every reasonable precaution was taken and the injury isnt the result of one's own bravado/apathy/stupidity/laziness/etc. see what i mean?

which begs the question... if you are struck while riding with no helmet and thrown from your bike by the impact and injured because no helmet was worn, who should pay? obviously, the party culpable for the initial impact since the secondary impact would not have otherwise occurred.

and because completely agree with you that "_sometimes accidents just happen_" my position is that it is better to be prepared (i.e. have a helmet on) than unprepared.

i dont think there is anyone on the forum who would refuse to wear a helmet if they KNEW they were going to take a headfirst digger on the ride.



pistolero said:


> Also many many people would say anyone riding a motorcycle or bicycle on the street at all is sticking your neck out and asking to get killed.


again, i would agree that there are many who would say so.

but this is where imho prevention and common sense is key. for example, when cycling on the road -


wear a helmet

use side streets instead of major thoroughfares.

have at least a blinking red light out back.

ride defensively

yield the right of way instead of "being right".

imo, these things REDUCE the chances of injury.

taking reasonable precautions is not asking to be killed or injured. it is assessing the risks and responding appropriately.

for example, riding the wrong way down the middle lane of an 8 lane thoroughfare is asking to be killed; whereas commuting while doing ones best to minimize risks is not asking to be killed.

that make sense?



pistolero said:


> If you got splattered all over the pavement tomorrow even through no real fault of your own, crossing the street on a bike those kind of folks would be posting on the internet just as smugly as you've argued here that you were obviously severely stupid/pathetic/moronic to be in that situation. "2000 lb. vehicle vs. 175lb man on bike = INCREDIBLY STUPID. That is obviously an avoidable injury!" How can you argue with that?


personally, i can very easily argue with that because of your qualifier of "_even through no real fault of your own_".

in this case culpability of the accident resides on someone else's negligence rather than a stupid choice i have willingly made, and to me is not synonymous with choosing to disregard simple common sense precautions like wearing a helmet.

if someone else runs a stop sign and as a result i am involved in a collision (which has happened to me on both bikes and motorcycles) then yes, "_that is obviously an avoidable injury!_". but that begs the question... avoidable by WHOSE actions? obviously the one who ran the stop sign.

yes, it could have been avoided by not being in the intersection in the first place, but this is where it comes down to the basic maxim that life is full of risks.

to me, it is how we counter and/or prepare for them using simple common sense. and imho its not smug to voice the opinion that it is stupid/lazy/apathetic to disregard basic, simple, common sense preventative measures.

and btw, thanks for a level headed coherent response and exchange of ideas.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

rabidweasel999 said:


> You're really just so proud of your vocabulary, aren't you?


actually yes, i am. but not proud in the sense that i feel it makes me better than anyone else. it doesnt. it simply means that i value education and enjoy being well spoken, well read, and having the capability of expressing myself outside the realm of two syllable words and profanity.

i would dare say that it is intrinsic to the nature of the human race to be proud of our accomplishments and knowledge. perhaps you would be kind enough to tell me just exactly why i should dumb it down for the benefit of others?



rabidweasel999 said:


> All I'm sayin' is that if you're preaching about helmets, you might want to type your posts so that you don't come off like you yourself just staggered in from head trauma.


so being well spoken and being able to coherently illume and ballyhoo one's position and/or opinion is indicative of staggering in from head trauma?

uh.... ok. :crazy:


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

jeffgothro said:


> Ok sir...fair enough, I to apologize if I have cross some line with you as well, I dont really need to re-read what you wrote, I think I know where your coming from, and you make some valid points, I just dissagree with how you choosing to get your point across at times.


no biggie dude. youre a clever guy and got a couple of good shots across my bow, it just seemed like it was getting out of hand.

im generally very intentional about qualifying with "imho" and so forth, but just the same sometimes strong opinions/positions are taken personally. so as long as its clear i was making no attempt to dictate the behavior of others i say no harm, no foul.



jeffgothro said:


> On your second point, yes logically speaking...however in doing so and shall we say "forcing" or "making" me wear a helmit when I choose not to infringes on my civil liberties


actually it doesnt, and i would have to disagree with you as the recipient is subservient to the provider. in other words, since i am picking up the tab (providing the benefit/privilege) i now have the right to dictate behavior (require helmet use) to protect my investment (you).

this is based on the simple maxim that when one is taking a benefit from another, one tacitly gives up certain liberties/rights.

for example, if i got food stamps i would be told what food i can buy with them. but how is that moral, legal, or ethical since i have the right and freedom to buy what i want? its because i am subject to the will and whim of the provider in exchange for the service, thus the provider can direct my subsequent behavior. if i want to buy whatever i wish i simply dont use food stamps. like the people in line in front of me the other day who paid for all their meat and bulk items with food stamps and their alcohol and cigarettes (which totaled far more than the food) with cash. :madman:

and please understand, im not telling you to wear a helmet because youre on ssi (im assuming) and my taxes fund it. i was just countering your logic.

however, that does beg the question (at least to me) and im genuinely curious... if you're on disability, how can you be mountain biking?

but yes, when one accepts a benefit one does become beholden to the provider. the constitution does not provide for social entitlement programs, thus constitutional rights are not protected by those who enter into contracts to receive them.

this is how the country has gotten into the mess its in. we have traded freedoms/liberties for security and have ended up with neither.

but all that is fodder for untold months of discourse involving sociology and logic, and is waaaay off topic.

and thanks for taking it at face value instead of personally.



jeffgothro said:


> Keep in mind I do advocate wearing them and I will wear one if I'm in compition or feel I will be in a situation dangerous enough to where I feel I need one


is the potential for an accident not dangerous enough? just curious...

last year in moab we were riding out to amasa back and about a block from the mcdonalds my tyre slid the curb and i got pitched onto the sidewalk head first and it wasnt pretty. ill post a pic of the helmet, and having worked in the e.r. i can imagine what the outcome would have been without it.

made such a profound impact on my buddies who were with me that they now both wear them regularly; whereas before they would only wear one when they felt like they were "in a situation dangerous enough" or they felt they needed one.



jeffgothro said:


> I'm not a complete moron.


just a partial one??? 

j/k... but i couldnt resist that one! :lol:


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

monogod said:


> no biggie dude. you got a couple of good shots across my bow, it just seemed like it was getting out of hand.
> 
> im generally very intentional about qualifying with "imho" and so forth, but just the same sometimes strong opinions/positions are taken personally. so as long as its clear i was making no attempt to dictate the behavior of others i say no harm, no foul.
> 
> ...


I will PM you later...probably tonight or early tomarro Mr. monogod, (I'm feeling rather tired and sleepy at the moment) there are some questions you ask and commants I feel I need to make that might not be approprate for the forums and some that are no ones business and that I dont like or feel comfortable sharing in forum.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

I think all bikers' significant others should make them wear a helmet...or stay on the couch with the beer & popcorn all night until they do.(I mean when they ride their bikes). And all single bikers shouldn't be allowed to go on dates until they wear a helmet.


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## GRGO (May 4, 2008)

zarr said:


> I think all bikers' significant others should make them wear a helmet...or stay on the couch with the beer & popcorn all night until they do.(I mean when they ride their bikes). And all single bikers shouldn't be allowed to go on dates until they wear a helmet.


My wife hides my helmet and tells me to ride fast and take chances.

I wonder what she means by that....


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

GRGO said:


> My wife hides my helmet and tells me to ride fast and take chances.
> 
> I wonder what she means by that....


HAha! Iknew that post would knock somebody's helmet off.:thumbsup: ...Or at least encourage them to put it on.  ...mmmmm?


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## dinoadventures (May 2, 2008)

the only time i touch my bike without a helmet on is when i'm fixing it.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

GRGO said:


> My wife hides my helmet and tells me to ride fast and take chances.
> 
> I wonder what she means by that....


Got any insurance policys?


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## HarryCallahan (Nov 2, 2004)

Monogod wrote:
"last year in moab we were riding out to amasa back and about a block from the mcdonalds my tyre slid the curb and i got pitched onto the sidewalk head first and it wasnt pretty. ill post a pic of the helmet, and having worked in the e.r. i can imagine what the outcome would have been without it."

I had almost this same thing happen to me a few years ago down at the beach in San Diego. I wasn't even moving forward at the time. I'd stopped to take in the scene, and was sitting on the bike with one foot unclipped and on the sidewalk. When I pushed off, my foot slipped on a slick spot and I went straight over sideways, headfirst into the sidewalk.  Cracked my helmet.


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## onbelaydave (May 10, 2006)

*How many of you wear a full face when you drive to the TH ? ?*

Risks are risks, and at the speed a car is moving....... Just as a helmet is "required" in any sanctioned cycle race, so is it on the NASCAR circuit.

Why have almost all states repealed the helmet laws for moto-cyclists ?

A friend of mines mother just died 2 days ago, because she fell off her ladder cleaning her gutters. I have a friend who had both parents die in the span of 3 months from a fall down the basement stairs and a slip in the shower. Does anyone put on a helmet to walk up and a set of stairs ? Statistically it is far deadlier than riding a mountain bike.

Accidents happen. Choose your own lifestyle, weigh the risks and decide for yourself.


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## jervana (May 25, 2008)

all the time? no.

most of the time? yes. 

if it's a stroll down to 7-11 (on an old janky cruiser), then it's no biggie.


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## Schwinng (Jan 21, 2004)

I NEVER go riding WITHOUT a helmet. If it's particularly hot and I'm expecting to pretty much just climb for a long spell, I may take it off and mount it on my handlebar. But, as soon as I hit the top of the run, it's back on me again.


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## rustyenduro (Feb 13, 2008)

This thread is biased! Over 90% of the people who ride without helmets no longer have the mental capacity to voice their opinion. Everyone, do not be swayed by the results of this thread!


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

rustyenduro said:


> This thread is biased! Over 90% of the people who ride without helmets no longer have the mental capacity to voice their opinion. Everyone, do not be swayed by the results of this thread!


100% people who wear their helmets = more empty hospital beds and according to my earlier post, possibly less time sleeping on the couch and more marriages and chances to taste a good piece of wedding cake ! :thumbsup:


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## GRGO (May 4, 2008)

HarryCallahan said:


> Monogod wrote:
> "last year in moab we were riding out to amasa back and about a block from the mcdonalds my tyre slid the curb and i got pitched onto the sidewalk head first and it wasnt pretty. ill post a pic of the helmet, and having worked in the e.r. i can imagine what the outcome would have been without it."
> 
> I had almost this same thing happen to me a few years ago down at the beach in San Diego. I wasn't even moving forward at the time. I'd stopped to take in the scene, and was sitting on the bike with one foot unclipped and on the sidewalk. When I pushed off, my foot slipped on a slick spot and I went straight over sideways, headfirst into the sidewalk.  Cracked my helmet.


If you weren't clipped in would this have happened?

Sounds like a strong argument could be made to always ride on flats to avoid potential injuries.

We can't have society paying the cost for folks injuring themselves becasue they could not get unclipped fast enough.

;-)


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## HarryCallahan (Nov 2, 2004)

GRGO said:


> If you weren't clipped in would this have happened?
> 
> Sounds like a strong argument could be made to always ride on flats to avoid potential injuries.
> 
> ...


My being clipped in actually didn't have anything to do with my fall. It was the unclipped foot on the sidewalk that skidded out from under me.


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## GRGO (May 4, 2008)

HarryCallahan said:


> My being clipped in actually didn't have anything to do with my fall. It was the unclipped foot on the sidewalk that skidded out from under me.


If you had both feet off the pedals and firmly on the ground would you have fallen?

If you had one foot on the ground and the other resting unclipped on the pedal would you have been able to react in a manner that would have kept your pumpkin off the concrete?

If you had been wearing a shoe with much more traction then the ones you had would that foot not have slipped out.

I just have to assume the answer to all of those questions is yes.

Your pedals and shoes caused your accident. We need to OUTLAW those pedals and shoes so society isn't burdened with providing lifelong care to the negligent, irresponsible people who only think of themselves.

;-)


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