# New EMTB access



## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

I think it would be a good sticky thread for notices of change in eMTB access or not well known access.
For instance I wrote the US Forest Service in the San Juan National Forest office. I was asking for them to consider opening parts of the single track trails in their jurisdiction.
I actually got a reply I really did not expect and the rep forwarded this fact sheet which included an encouraging note that recreation managers there seem aware of the desire of eMTB to have more access and may be trying to provide more access. This may be old to news to residence of the area. 
You might consider writing to them if you are also interested in more trail access.
I was very glad to find out that the Hermosa Creek Trail, one of my favorite rides is open to eMTB. If I am reading the information correctly.

"
*E-Bikes on San Juan National Forest 
Fact Sheet AND Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)*

Let’s face it, if you have an e-bike/eMTB, many of the routes and trails open to e-bikes may not provide the experience you were looking for. Good news! Each district of San Juan National Forest has many trails open to e-bikes. The trails listed below offer single track riding experiences spanning the entire San Juan National Forest landscape. Plan ahead and prepare – some of these trails are demanding and remote."
*Dolores Ranger District*

 
 Ramparts North - #166

 South Coyote Park - #170

 Box Canyon - #617, #621

 Calico - #202, #208, #640 

 East Fork - #638

*Columbine Ranger District*

 
 Cutthroat - #496

 Hermosa Creek - #514

 
 Corral Draw - #521


 
 Jones Creek - #518

 Pinkerton-Flagstaff - #522

 Multiple options at Purgatory Ski Resort
*Pagosa Ranger District*

 
 Devil Mountain - #600

 Snow Springs - #605

 Do Right - #642

 Treasure Mountain Trail - #565


----------



## sharpendjay (Sep 8, 2020)

Let's be real here....e-bikers are going to ride wherever the hell they want because of their blatant disregard of the laws and complete lack of enforcement.


----------



## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

You are never going to stop bad apples from doing bad things. Many people exceed the speed limit driving cars and kill other people. Most eMTB will follow the rules. If you don't like ebikes why read this forum?


----------



## louiesquared (6 mo ago)

sharpendjay said:


> Let's be real here....e-bikers are going to ride wherever the hell they want because of their blatant disregard of the laws and complete lack of enforcement.


If we're being real here, there are just as many MTB'rs riding illegal trails as there are eMTB'rs riding on trails they are not supposed to.


----------



## john.ecc (8 mo ago)

sharpendjay said:


> Let's be real here....e-bikers are going to ride wherever the hell they want because of their blatant disregard of the laws and complete lack of enforcement.


lol that's a bit of a broad statement... I'm not e-bikes biggest fan but owning one doesn't automatically make you a law breaking d**k?


----------



## sharpendjay (Sep 8, 2020)

mike_kelly said:


> You are never going to stop bad apples from doing bad things. Many people exceed the speed limit driving cars and kill other people. Most eMTB will follow the rules. If you don't like ebikes why read this forum?


I like e-bikes, I don't like the e-bikers I am seeing on trails where e-biking is prohibited.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Well then why are you snarking on a thread designed to encourage/inform people to use legal trails? Add some singletrack trails that are legal.


----------



## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

mike_kelly said:


> Most eMTB will follow the rules.


Riiiiiiiiiigght....  "This is a class 1 e-bike, it's allowed here!" "There weren't any signs" "I didn't know!" "It's just as much work as pedalling a real bike" "F off!" 




mike_kelly said:


> If you don't like ebikes why read this forum?


Threads in the moped subforum show up on the main page under "Recommended for you". If MTBR is going to lob softballs at us like this don't get all outraged when people take a swing. Feel free to write the powers that be and ask them to change this practice. They won't, because it drives traffic just like they want.


----------



## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Or you could change your practice and leave the eMTB forum alone. Why do you feel the need to comment? Nobody in this forum cares. This is the forum for people who use eMTB and like them. Maybe if you want to howl at the moon you could do it somewhere else?


----------



## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

mike_kelly said:


> Or you could change your practice and leave the eMTB forum alone. Why do you feel the need to comment?


LOL. You must not have read my whole post. 


evdog said:


> Threads in the moped subforum show up on the main page under "Recommended for you". If MTBR is going to lob softballs at us like this don't get all outraged when people take a swing.


----------



## john.ecc (8 mo ago)

mike_kelly said:


> Or you could change your practice and leave the eMTB forum alone. Why do you feel the need to comment? Nobody in this forum cares. This is the forum for people who use eMTB and like them. Maybe if you want to howl at the moon you could do it somewhere else?


Unfortunately evdog is correct. They show up in our main feed, dangling there like bait.


----------



## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

You could resist clicking on something titled "New EMTB access" since you are not interested in eMTB? Maybe. Or "resistance is futile"?
This could have been a useful thread to encourage legal ebike usage.


----------



## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

With out the ebikers I would have one or two guys locally who can ride with me for over 120 minutes (XC). They help me get faster, period...I just go 21mph and have them drain their batteries!


----------



## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

mike_kelly said:


> *E-Bikes on San Juan National Forest
> Fact Sheet AND Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)*


This is good. I encourage ppl to check out, USFS interactive map if you don't already: Forest Service Visitor Map 

Hovering on a trail will give you allowed access. Further, selecting 'dirt bike' will show all the moto/eBike accessible single track.


----------



## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

john.ecc said:


> Unfortunately evdog is correct. They show up in our main feed, dangling there like bait.


Oh, please. What a crock. I get "Recommended For You" threads about Vermont, New Hampshire (neither of which I have been to or have any interest in), Vintage (ditto), and all kinds of other topics. If I loathe the subject or even just have zero interest I'm not tempted to go in there and start spouting my superiority or why it's terrible. It's the same few trolls on every e-bike thread spewing their negativity about anything e-bike related. "Bait". 🤣


----------



## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

FWIW, I appreciate the OP's effort to construct a sticky with legal riding / access resources. That's needed.

Historically, mtbr and mountain biking in general has always included controversial topics. Some ya'll have thin skin and it's laughable to think eBikes are singled out, but they are hot in moment... dubious claims about wheelsize benefits are met with pushback just as readily as similar unfounded claims made by ebike advocates. Look at the threads on this site - it's not all just a cheering squad. Near fist fights over chainstay length and leverage ratios. Regardless, mtbr forums are basically meaningless now - feeds and alerts...like it or not, this is what they do - spur engagement. If mtbr offered an eBike filter, I'd probably use it... get some time back and passively pinpoint topics I'm more minded towards... but they don't. As an observation, most the negative ebike threads go south when the supposedly forbidden topics are brought up: poaching, derestriction mods... or a shared topic like changing access in an area.


----------



## john.ecc (8 mo ago)

BmanInTheD said:


> Oh, please. What a crock. I get "Recommended For You" threads about Vermont, New Hampshire (neither of which I have been to or have any interest in), Vintage (ditto), and all kinds of other topics. If I loathe the subject or even just have zero interest I'm not tempted to go in there and start spouting my superiority or why it's terrible. It's the same few trolls on every e-bike thread spewing their negativity about anything e-bike related. "Bait". 🤣


I've not said anything negative, I believe I was defending e-bikers with my earlier comment? I wouldn't have found this thread if it didn't show up in my main feed, I don't go looking for them. So no, it's not a "crock". Have a lovely day.


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

BmanInTheD said:


> Oh, please. What a crock. I get "Recommended For You" threads about Vermont, New Hampshire (neither of which I have been to or have any interest in), Vintage (ditto), and all kinds of other topics. If I loathe the subject or even just have zero interest I'm not tempted to go in there and start spouting my superiority or why it's terrible. It's the same few trolls on every e-bike thread spewing their negativity about anything e-bike related. "Bait". 🤣



Wait, you mean that the internet gave you a link that you were not directly interested in, waiting for even? Say it isnt so.....


----------



## AEyogi (Nov 19, 2021)

Carl Mega said:


> FWIW, I appreciate the OP's effort to construct a sticky with legal riding / access resources. That's needed.
> 
> Historically, mtbr and mountain biking in general has always included controversial topics. Some ya'll have thin skin and it's laughable to think eBikes are singled out, but they are hot in moment... dubious claims about wheelsize benefits are met with pushback just as readily as similar unfounded claims made by ebike advocates. Look at the threads on this site - it's not all just a cheering squad. Near fist fights over chainstay length and leverage ratios. Regardless, mtbr forums are basically meaningless now - feeds and alerts...like it or not, this is what they do - spur engagement. If mtbr offered an eBike filter, I'd probably use it... get some time back and passively pinpoint topics I'm more minded towards... but they don't. As an observation, most the negative ebike threads go south when the supposedly forbidden topics are brought up: poaching, derestriction mods... or a shared topic like changing access in an area.


I just put these retards on ignore, and the threads are becoming more and more pleasant to read. It is also kind of fun to just press a button and someone disappears from my world entirely. Wish I could do that in real life.


----------



## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

Carl Mega said:


> This is good. I encourage ppl to check out, USFS interactive map if you don't already: Forest Service Visitor Map
> 
> Hovering on a trail will give you allowed access. Further, selecting 'dirt bike' will show all the moto/eBike accessible single track.


Wow, thanks! I didn't realize the PCT was open to bikes - same with Wilderness trails in the Angeles NF!  










Seriously, USFS info online is notoriously inaccurate. Prior to their recent redesign the pages for individual trails almost never listed MTB as an allowed use, even on MTB primary trails. 

Quick look at the forests in Socal:

Cleveland NF & Inyo NF - list trails and uses, but seems to just show all trails outside Wilderness as open to bikes. But MTB is definitely not allowed on some of those. 
San Bernardino NF & Los Padres NF - don't list allowed uses
Angeles NF - shows PCT and many trails in Wilderness as open to bikes. Yay! 
Sequoia NF - doesn't even show trails on the map

Each forest shows roads xxxx'd out as closed (or don't show the road at all), which are still open to non-motorized use.

This map is probably better than any other source I've seen from USFS but you still can't rely on it as-is. Hopefully they'll keep updating it. Since e-bikes are not allowed on USFS non-motorized trails the Motor Vehicle Use Maps are your best bet. I think you can get those as a map layer now on some services like Gaia or OnX


----------



## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

I think it would be a good sticky thread for notices of change in eMTB access or not well known access.
For instance I wrote the US Forest Service in the San Juan National Forest office. I was asking for them to consider opening parts of the single track trails in their jurisdiction.
I actually got a reply I really did not expect and the rep forwarded this fact sheet which included an encouraging note that recreation managers there seem aware of the desire of eMTB to have more access and may be trying to provide more access. This may be old to news to residence of the area. 
You might consider writing to them if you are also interested in more trail access.
I was very glad to find out that the Hermosa Creek Trail, one of my favorite rides is open to eMTB. If I am reading the information correctly.

"
*E-Bikes on San Juan National Forest 
Fact Sheet AND Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)*

Let’s face it, if you have an e-bike/eMTB, many of the routes and trails open to e-bikes may not provide the experience you were looking for. Good news! Each district of San Juan National Forest has many trails open to e-bikes. The trails listed below offer single track riding experiences spanning the entire San Juan National Forest landscape. Plan ahead and prepare – some of these trails are demanding and remote."
*Dolores Ranger District*

 
 Ramparts North - #166

 South Coyote Park - #170

 Box Canyon - #617, #621

 Calico - #202, #208, #640 

 East Fork - #638

*Columbine Ranger District*

 
 Cutthroat - #496

 Hermosa Creek - #514

 
 Corral Draw - #521


 
 Jones Creek - #518

 Pinkerton-Flagstaff - #522

 Multiple options at Purgatory Ski Resort
*Pagosa Ranger District*

 
 Devil Mountain - #600

 Snow Springs - #605

 Do Right - #642

 Treasure Mountain Trail - #565


----------



## sharpendjay (Sep 8, 2020)

Let's be real here....e-bikers are going to ride wherever the hell they want because of their blatant disregard of the laws and complete lack of enforcement.


----------



## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

You are never going to stop bad apples from doing bad things. Many people exceed the speed limit driving cars and kill other people. Most eMTB will follow the rules. If you don't like ebikes why read this forum?


----------



## louiesquared (6 mo ago)

sharpendjay said:


> Let's be real here....e-bikers are going to ride wherever the hell they want because of their blatant disregard of the laws and complete lack of enforcement.


If we're being real here, there are just as many MTB'rs riding illegal trails as there are eMTB'rs riding on trails they are not supposed to.


----------



## john.ecc (8 mo ago)

sharpendjay said:


> Let's be real here....e-bikers are going to ride wherever the hell they want because of their blatant disregard of the laws and complete lack of enforcement.


lol that's a bit of a broad statement... I'm not e-bikes biggest fan but owning one doesn't automatically make you a law breaking d**k?


----------



## sharpendjay (Sep 8, 2020)

mike_kelly said:


> You are never going to stop bad apples from doing bad things. Many people exceed the speed limit driving cars and kill other people. Most eMTB will follow the rules. If you don't like ebikes why read this forum?


I like e-bikes, I don't like the e-bikers I am seeing on trails where e-biking is prohibited.


----------



## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Well then why are you snarking on a thread designed to encourage/inform people to use legal trails? Add some singletrack trails that are legal.


----------



## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

mike_kelly said:


> Most eMTB will follow the rules.


Riiiiiiiiiigght....  "This is a class 1 e-bike, it's allowed here!" "There weren't any signs" "I didn't know!" "It's just as much work as pedalling a real bike" "F off!" 




mike_kelly said:


> If you don't like ebikes why read this forum?


Threads in the moped subforum show up on the main page under "Recommended for you". If MTBR is going to lob softballs at us like this don't get all outraged when people take a swing. Feel free to write the powers that be and ask them to change this practice. They won't, because it drives traffic just like they want.


----------



## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Or you could change your practice and leave the eMTB forum alone. Why do you feel the need to comment? Nobody in this forum cares. This is the forum for people who use eMTB and like them. Maybe if you want to howl at the moon you could do it somewhere else?


----------



## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

mike_kelly said:


> Or you could change your practice and leave the eMTB forum alone. Why do you feel the need to comment?


LOL. You must not have read my whole post. 


evdog said:


> Threads in the moped subforum show up on the main page under "Recommended for you". If MTBR is going to lob softballs at us like this don't get all outraged when people take a swing.


----------



## john.ecc (8 mo ago)

mike_kelly said:


> Or you could change your practice and leave the eMTB forum alone. Why do you feel the need to comment? Nobody in this forum cares. This is the forum for people who use eMTB and like them. Maybe if you want to howl at the moon you could do it somewhere else?


Unfortunately evdog is correct. They show up in our main feed, dangling there like bait.


----------



## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

You could resist clicking on something titled "New EMTB access" since you are not interested in eMTB? Maybe. Or "resistance is futile"?
This could have been a useful thread to encourage legal ebike usage.


----------



## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

With out the ebikers I would have one or two guys locally who can ride with me for over 120 minutes (XC). They help me get faster, period...I just go 21mph and have them drain their batteries!


----------



## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

mike_kelly said:


> *E-Bikes on San Juan National Forest
> Fact Sheet AND Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)*


This is good. I encourage ppl to check out, USFS interactive map if you don't already: Forest Service Visitor Map 

Hovering on a trail will give you allowed access. Further, selecting 'dirt bike' will show all the moto/eBike accessible single track.


----------



## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

john.ecc said:


> Unfortunately evdog is correct. They show up in our main feed, dangling there like bait.


Oh, please. What a crock. I get "Recommended For You" threads about Vermont, New Hampshire (neither of which I have been to or have any interest in), Vintage (ditto), and all kinds of other topics. If I loathe the subject or even just have zero interest I'm not tempted to go in there and start spouting my superiority or why it's terrible. It's the same few trolls on every e-bike thread spewing their negativity about anything e-bike related. "Bait". 🤣


----------



## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

FWIW, I appreciate the OP's effort to construct a sticky with legal riding / access resources. That's needed.

Historically, mtbr and mountain biking in general has always included controversial topics. Some ya'll have thin skin and it's laughable to think eBikes are singled out, but they are hot in moment... dubious claims about wheelsize benefits are met with pushback just as readily as similar unfounded claims made by ebike advocates. Look at the threads on this site - it's not all just a cheering squad. Near fist fights over chainstay length and leverage ratios. Regardless, mtbr forums are basically meaningless now - feeds and alerts...like it or not, this is what they do - spur engagement. If mtbr offered an eBike filter, I'd probably use it... get some time back and passively pinpoint topics I'm more minded towards... but they don't. As an observation, most the negative ebike threads go south when the supposedly forbidden topics are brought up: poaching, derestriction mods... or a shared topic like changing access in an area.


----------



## john.ecc (8 mo ago)

BmanInTheD said:


> Oh, please. What a crock. I get "Recommended For You" threads about Vermont, New Hampshire (neither of which I have been to or have any interest in), Vintage (ditto), and all kinds of other topics. If I loathe the subject or even just have zero interest I'm not tempted to go in there and start spouting my superiority or why it's terrible. It's the same few trolls on every e-bike thread spewing their negativity about anything e-bike related. "Bait". 🤣


I've not said anything negative, I believe I was defending e-bikers with my earlier comment? I wouldn't have found this thread if it didn't show up in my main feed, I don't go looking for them. So no, it's not a "crock". Have a lovely day.


----------



## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

BmanInTheD said:


> Oh, please. What a crock. I get "Recommended For You" threads about Vermont, New Hampshire (neither of which I have been to or have any interest in), Vintage (ditto), and all kinds of other topics. If I loathe the subject or even just have zero interest I'm not tempted to go in there and start spouting my superiority or why it's terrible. It's the same few trolls on every e-bike thread spewing their negativity about anything e-bike related. "Bait". 🤣



Wait, you mean that the internet gave you a link that you were not directly interested in, waiting for even? Say it isnt so.....


----------



## AEyogi (Nov 19, 2021)

Carl Mega said:


> FWIW, I appreciate the OP's effort to construct a sticky with legal riding / access resources. That's needed.
> 
> Historically, mtbr and mountain biking in general has always included controversial topics. Some ya'll have thin skin and it's laughable to think eBikes are singled out, but they are hot in moment... dubious claims about wheelsize benefits are met with pushback just as readily as similar unfounded claims made by ebike advocates. Look at the threads on this site - it's not all just a cheering squad. Near fist fights over chainstay length and leverage ratios. Regardless, mtbr forums are basically meaningless now - feeds and alerts...like it or not, this is what they do - spur engagement. If mtbr offered an eBike filter, I'd probably use it... get some time back and passively pinpoint topics I'm more minded towards... but they don't. As an observation, most the negative ebike threads go south when the supposedly forbidden topics are brought up: poaching, derestriction mods... or a shared topic like changing access in an area.


I just put these retards on ignore, and the threads are becoming more and more pleasant to read. It is also kind of fun to just press a button and someone disappears from my world entirely. Wish I could do that in real life.


----------



## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

Carl Mega said:


> This is good. I encourage ppl to check out, USFS interactive map if you don't already: Forest Service Visitor Map
> 
> Hovering on a trail will give you allowed access. Further, selecting 'dirt bike' will show all the moto/eBike accessible single track.


Wow, thanks! I didn't realize the PCT was open to bikes - same with Wilderness trails in the Angeles NF!  










Seriously, USFS info online is notoriously inaccurate. Prior to their recent redesign the pages for individual trails almost never listed MTB as an allowed use, even on MTB primary trails. 

Quick look at the forests in Socal:

Cleveland NF & Inyo NF - list trails and uses, but seems to just show all trails outside Wilderness as open to bikes. But MTB is definitely not allowed on some of those. 
San Bernardino NF & Los Padres NF - don't list allowed uses
Angeles NF - shows PCT and many trails in Wilderness as open to bikes. Yay! 
Sequoia NF - doesn't even show trails on the map

Each forest shows roads xxxx'd out as closed (or don't show the road at all), which are still open to non-motorized use.

This map is probably better than any other source I've seen from USFS but you still can't rely on it as-is. Hopefully they'll keep updating it. Since e-bikes are not allowed on USFS non-motorized trails the Motor Vehicle Use Maps are your best bet. I think you can get those as a map layer now on some services like Gaia or OnX


----------



## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

I think it would be a good sticky thread for notices of change in eMTB access or not well known access.
For instance I wrote the US Forest Service in the San Juan National Forest office. I was asking for them to consider opening parts of the single track trails in their jurisdiction.
I actually got a reply I really did not expect and the rep forwarded this fact sheet which included an encouraging note that recreation managers there seem aware of the desire of eMTB to have more access and may be trying to provide more access. This may be old to news to residence of the area. 
You might consider writing to them if you are also interested in more trail access.
I was very glad to find out that the Hermosa Creek Trail, one of my favorite rides is open to eMTB. If I am reading the information correctly.

"
*E-Bikes on San Juan National Forest 
Fact Sheet AND Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)*

Let’s face it, if you have an e-bike/eMTB, many of the routes and trails open to e-bikes may not provide the experience you were looking for. Good news! Each district of San Juan National Forest has many trails open to e-bikes. The trails listed below offer single track riding experiences spanning the entire San Juan National Forest landscape. Plan ahead and prepare – some of these trails are demanding and remote."
*Dolores Ranger District*

 
 Ramparts North - #166

 South Coyote Park - #170

 Box Canyon - #617, #621

 Calico - #202, #208, #640 

 East Fork - #638

*Columbine Ranger District*

 
 Cutthroat - #496

 Hermosa Creek - #514

 
 Corral Draw - #521


 
 Jones Creek - #518

 Pinkerton-Flagstaff - #522

 Multiple options at Purgatory Ski Resort
*Pagosa Ranger District*

 
 Devil Mountain - #600

 Snow Springs - #605

 Do Right - #642

 Treasure Mountain Trail - #565


----------



## sharpendjay (Sep 8, 2020)

Let's be real here....e-bikers are going to ride wherever the hell they want because of their blatant disregard of the laws and complete lack of enforcement.


----------



## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

You are never going to stop bad apples from doing bad things. Many people exceed the speed limit driving cars and kill other people. Most eMTB will follow the rules. If you don't like ebikes why read this forum?


----------



## louiesquared (6 mo ago)

sharpendjay said:


> Let's be real here....e-bikers are going to ride wherever the hell they want because of their blatant disregard of the laws and complete lack of enforcement.


If we're being real here, there are just as many MTB'rs riding illegal trails as there are eMTB'rs riding on trails they are not supposed to.


----------



## john.ecc (8 mo ago)

sharpendjay said:


> Let's be real here....e-bikers are going to ride wherever the hell they want because of their blatant disregard of the laws and complete lack of enforcement.


lol that's a bit of a broad statement... I'm not e-bikes biggest fan but owning one doesn't automatically make you a law breaking d**k?


----------



## sharpendjay (Sep 8, 2020)

mike_kelly said:


> You are never going to stop bad apples from doing bad things. Many people exceed the speed limit driving cars and kill other people. Most eMTB will follow the rules. If you don't like ebikes why read this forum?


I like e-bikes, I don't like the e-bikers I am seeing on trails where e-biking is prohibited.


----------



## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Well then why are you snarking on a thread designed to encourage/inform people to use legal trails? Add some singletrack trails that are legal.


----------



## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

mike_kelly said:


> Most eMTB will follow the rules.


Riiiiiiiiiigght....  "This is a class 1 e-bike, it's allowed here!" "There weren't any signs" "I didn't know!" "It's just as much work as pedalling a real bike" "F off!" 




mike_kelly said:


> If you don't like ebikes why read this forum?


Threads in the moped subforum show up on the main page under "Recommended for you". If MTBR is going to lob softballs at us like this don't get all outraged when people take a swing. Feel free to write the powers that be and ask them to change this practice. They won't, because it drives traffic just like they want.


----------



## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Or you could change your practice and leave the eMTB forum alone. Why do you feel the need to comment? Nobody in this forum cares. This is the forum for people who use eMTB and like them. Maybe if you want to howl at the moon you could do it somewhere else?


----------



## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

mike_kelly said:


> Or you could change your practice and leave the eMTB forum alone. Why do you feel the need to comment?


LOL. You must not have read my whole post. 


evdog said:


> Threads in the moped subforum show up on the main page under "Recommended for you". If MTBR is going to lob softballs at us like this don't get all outraged when people take a swing.


----------



## john.ecc (8 mo ago)

mike_kelly said:


> Or you could change your practice and leave the eMTB forum alone. Why do you feel the need to comment? Nobody in this forum cares. This is the forum for people who use eMTB and like them. Maybe if you want to howl at the moon you could do it somewhere else?


Unfortunately evdog is correct. They show up in our main feed, dangling there like bait.


----------



## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

You could resist clicking on something titled "New EMTB access" since you are not interested in eMTB? Maybe. Or "resistance is futile"?
This could have been a useful thread to encourage legal ebike usage.


----------



## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

With out the ebikers I would have one or two guys locally who can ride with me for over 120 minutes (XC). They help me get faster, period...I just go 21mph and have them drain their batteries!


----------



## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

mike_kelly said:


> *E-Bikes on San Juan National Forest
> Fact Sheet AND Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)*


This is good. I encourage ppl to check out, USFS interactive map if you don't already: Forest Service Visitor Map 

Hovering on a trail will give you allowed access. Further, selecting 'dirt bike' will show all the moto/eBike accessible single track.


----------



## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

john.ecc said:


> Unfortunately evdog is correct. They show up in our main feed, dangling there like bait.


Oh, please. What a crock. I get "Recommended For You" threads about Vermont, New Hampshire (neither of which I have been to or have any interest in), Vintage (ditto), and all kinds of other topics. If I loathe the subject or even just have zero interest I'm not tempted to go in there and start spouting my superiority or why it's terrible. It's the same few trolls on every e-bike thread spewing their negativity about anything e-bike related. "Bait". 🤣


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

FWIW, I appreciate the OP's effort to construct a sticky with legal riding / access resources. That's needed.

Historically, mtbr and mountain biking in general has always included controversial topics. Some ya'll have thin skin and it's laughable to think eBikes are singled out, but they are hot in moment... dubious claims about wheelsize benefits are met with pushback just as readily as similar unfounded claims made by ebike advocates. Look at the threads on this site - it's not all just a cheering squad. Near fist fights over chainstay length and leverage ratios. Regardless, mtbr forums are basically meaningless now - feeds and alerts...like it or not, this is what they do - spur engagement. If mtbr offered an eBike filter, I'd probably use it... get some time back and passively pinpoint topics I'm more minded towards... but they don't. As an observation, most the negative ebike threads go south when the supposedly forbidden topics are brought up: poaching, derestriction mods... or a shared topic like changing access in an area.


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## john.ecc (8 mo ago)

BmanInTheD said:


> Oh, please. What a crock. I get "Recommended For You" threads about Vermont, New Hampshire (neither of which I have been to or have any interest in), Vintage (ditto), and all kinds of other topics. If I loathe the subject or even just have zero interest I'm not tempted to go in there and start spouting my superiority or why it's terrible. It's the same few trolls on every e-bike thread spewing their negativity about anything e-bike related. "Bait". 🤣


I've not said anything negative, I believe I was defending e-bikers with my earlier comment? I wouldn't have found this thread if it didn't show up in my main feed, I don't go looking for them. So no, it's not a "crock". Have a lovely day.


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

BmanInTheD said:


> Oh, please. What a crock. I get "Recommended For You" threads about Vermont, New Hampshire (neither of which I have been to or have any interest in), Vintage (ditto), and all kinds of other topics. If I loathe the subject or even just have zero interest I'm not tempted to go in there and start spouting my superiority or why it's terrible. It's the same few trolls on every e-bike thread spewing their negativity about anything e-bike related. "Bait". 🤣



Wait, you mean that the internet gave you a link that you were not directly interested in, waiting for even? Say it isnt so.....


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## AEyogi (Nov 19, 2021)

Carl Mega said:


> FWIW, I appreciate the OP's effort to construct a sticky with legal riding / access resources. That's needed.
> 
> Historically, mtbr and mountain biking in general has always included controversial topics. Some ya'll have thin skin and it's laughable to think eBikes are singled out, but they are hot in moment... dubious claims about wheelsize benefits are met with pushback just as readily as similar unfounded claims made by ebike advocates. Look at the threads on this site - it's not all just a cheering squad. Near fist fights over chainstay length and leverage ratios. Regardless, mtbr forums are basically meaningless now - feeds and alerts...like it or not, this is what they do - spur engagement. If mtbr offered an eBike filter, I'd probably use it... get some time back and passively pinpoint topics I'm more minded towards... but they don't. As an observation, most the negative ebike threads go south when the supposedly forbidden topics are brought up: poaching, derestriction mods... or a shared topic like changing access in an area.


I just put these retards on ignore, and the threads are becoming more and more pleasant to read. It is also kind of fun to just press a button and someone disappears from my world entirely. Wish I could do that in real life.


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

Carl Mega said:


> This is good. I encourage ppl to check out, USFS interactive map if you don't already: Forest Service Visitor Map
> 
> Hovering on a trail will give you allowed access. Further, selecting 'dirt bike' will show all the moto/eBike accessible single track.


Wow, thanks! I didn't realize the PCT was open to bikes - same with Wilderness trails in the Angeles NF!  










Seriously, USFS info online is notoriously inaccurate. Prior to their recent redesign the pages for individual trails almost never listed MTB as an allowed use, even on MTB primary trails. 

Quick look at the forests in Socal:

Cleveland NF & Inyo NF - list trails and uses, but seems to just show all trails outside Wilderness as open to bikes. But MTB is definitely not allowed on some of those. 
San Bernardino NF & Los Padres NF - don't list allowed uses
Angeles NF - shows PCT and many trails in Wilderness as open to bikes. Yay! 
Sequoia NF - doesn't even show trails on the map

Each forest shows roads xxxx'd out as closed (or don't show the road at all), which are still open to non-motorized use.

This map is probably better than any other source I've seen from USFS but you still can't rely on it as-is. Hopefully they'll keep updating it. Since e-bikes are not allowed on USFS non-motorized trails the Motor Vehicle Use Maps are your best bet. I think you can get those as a map layer now on some services like Gaia or OnX


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

I think it would be a good sticky thread for notices of change in eMTB access or not well known access.
For instance I wrote the US Forest Service in the San Juan National Forest office. I was asking for them to consider opening parts of the single track trails in their jurisdiction.
I actually got a reply I really did not expect and the rep forwarded this fact sheet which included an encouraging note that recreation managers there seem aware of the desire of eMTB to have more access and may be trying to provide more access. This may be old to news to residence of the area. 
You might consider writing to them if you are also interested in more trail access.
I was very glad to find out that the Hermosa Creek Trail, one of my favorite rides is open to eMTB. If I am reading the information correctly.

"
*E-Bikes on San Juan National Forest 
Fact Sheet AND Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)*

Let’s face it, if you have an e-bike/eMTB, many of the routes and trails open to e-bikes may not provide the experience you were looking for. Good news! Each district of San Juan National Forest has many trails open to e-bikes. The trails listed below offer single track riding experiences spanning the entire San Juan National Forest landscape. Plan ahead and prepare – some of these trails are demanding and remote."
*Dolores Ranger District*

 
 Ramparts North - #166

 South Coyote Park - #170

 Box Canyon - #617, #621

 Calico - #202, #208, #640 

 East Fork - #638

*Columbine Ranger District*

 
 Cutthroat - #496

 Hermosa Creek - #514

 
 Corral Draw - #521


 
 Jones Creek - #518

 Pinkerton-Flagstaff - #522

 Multiple options at Purgatory Ski Resort
*Pagosa Ranger District*

 
 Devil Mountain - #600

 Snow Springs - #605

 Do Right - #642

 Treasure Mountain Trail - #565


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## sharpendjay (Sep 8, 2020)

Let's be real here....e-bikers are going to ride wherever the hell they want because of their blatant disregard of the laws and complete lack of enforcement.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

You are never going to stop bad apples from doing bad things. Many people exceed the speed limit driving cars and kill other people. Most eMTB will follow the rules. If you don't like ebikes why read this forum?


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## louiesquared (6 mo ago)

sharpendjay said:


> Let's be real here....e-bikers are going to ride wherever the hell they want because of their blatant disregard of the laws and complete lack of enforcement.


If we're being real here, there are just as many MTB'rs riding illegal trails as there are eMTB'rs riding on trails they are not supposed to.


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## john.ecc (8 mo ago)

sharpendjay said:


> Let's be real here....e-bikers are going to ride wherever the hell they want because of their blatant disregard of the laws and complete lack of enforcement.


lol that's a bit of a broad statement... I'm not e-bikes biggest fan but owning one doesn't automatically make you a law breaking d**k?


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## sharpendjay (Sep 8, 2020)

mike_kelly said:


> You are never going to stop bad apples from doing bad things. Many people exceed the speed limit driving cars and kill other people. Most eMTB will follow the rules. If you don't like ebikes why read this forum?


I like e-bikes, I don't like the e-bikers I am seeing on trails where e-biking is prohibited.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Well then why are you snarking on a thread designed to encourage/inform people to use legal trails? Add some singletrack trails that are legal.


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

mike_kelly said:


> Most eMTB will follow the rules.


Riiiiiiiiiigght....  "This is a class 1 e-bike, it's allowed here!" "There weren't any signs" "I didn't know!" "It's just as much work as pedalling a real bike" "F off!" 




mike_kelly said:


> If you don't like ebikes why read this forum?


Threads in the moped subforum show up on the main page under "Recommended for you". If MTBR is going to lob softballs at us like this don't get all outraged when people take a swing. Feel free to write the powers that be and ask them to change this practice. They won't, because it drives traffic just like they want.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Or you could change your practice and leave the eMTB forum alone. Why do you feel the need to comment? Nobody in this forum cares. This is the forum for people who use eMTB and like them. Maybe if you want to howl at the moon you could do it somewhere else?


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

mike_kelly said:


> Or you could change your practice and leave the eMTB forum alone. Why do you feel the need to comment?


LOL. You must not have read my whole post. 


evdog said:


> Threads in the moped subforum show up on the main page under "Recommended for you". If MTBR is going to lob softballs at us like this don't get all outraged when people take a swing.


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## john.ecc (8 mo ago)

mike_kelly said:


> Or you could change your practice and leave the eMTB forum alone. Why do you feel the need to comment? Nobody in this forum cares. This is the forum for people who use eMTB and like them. Maybe if you want to howl at the moon you could do it somewhere else?


Unfortunately evdog is correct. They show up in our main feed, dangling there like bait.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

You could resist clicking on something titled "New EMTB access" since you are not interested in eMTB? Maybe. Or "resistance is futile"?
This could have been a useful thread to encourage legal ebike usage.


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

With out the ebikers I would have one or two guys locally who can ride with me for over 120 minutes (XC). They help me get faster, period...I just go 21mph and have them drain their batteries!


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

mike_kelly said:


> *E-Bikes on San Juan National Forest
> Fact Sheet AND Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)*


This is good. I encourage ppl to check out, USFS interactive map if you don't already: Forest Service Visitor Map 

Hovering on a trail will give you allowed access. Further, selecting 'dirt bike' will show all the moto/eBike accessible single track.


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

john.ecc said:


> Unfortunately evdog is correct. They show up in our main feed, dangling there like bait.


Oh, please. What a crock. I get "Recommended For You" threads about Vermont, New Hampshire (neither of which I have been to or have any interest in), Vintage (ditto), and all kinds of other topics. If I loathe the subject or even just have zero interest I'm not tempted to go in there and start spouting my superiority or why it's terrible. It's the same few trolls on every e-bike thread spewing their negativity about anything e-bike related. "Bait". 🤣


----------



## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

FWIW, I appreciate the OP's effort to construct a sticky with legal riding / access resources. That's needed.

Historically, mtbr and mountain biking in general has always included controversial topics. Some ya'll have thin skin and it's laughable to think eBikes are singled out, but they are hot in moment... dubious claims about wheelsize benefits are met with pushback just as readily as similar unfounded claims made by ebike advocates. Look at the threads on this site - it's not all just a cheering squad. Near fist fights over chainstay length and leverage ratios. Regardless, mtbr forums are basically meaningless now - feeds and alerts...like it or not, this is what they do - spur engagement. If mtbr offered an eBike filter, I'd probably use it... get some time back and passively pinpoint topics I'm more minded towards... but they don't. As an observation, most the negative ebike threads go south when the supposedly forbidden topics are brought up: poaching, derestriction mods... or a shared topic like changing access in an area.


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## john.ecc (8 mo ago)

BmanInTheD said:


> Oh, please. What a crock. I get "Recommended For You" threads about Vermont, New Hampshire (neither of which I have been to or have any interest in), Vintage (ditto), and all kinds of other topics. If I loathe the subject or even just have zero interest I'm not tempted to go in there and start spouting my superiority or why it's terrible. It's the same few trolls on every e-bike thread spewing their negativity about anything e-bike related. "Bait". 🤣


I've not said anything negative, I believe I was defending e-bikers with my earlier comment? I wouldn't have found this thread if it didn't show up in my main feed, I don't go looking for them. So no, it's not a "crock". Have a lovely day.


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

BmanInTheD said:


> Oh, please. What a crock. I get "Recommended For You" threads about Vermont, New Hampshire (neither of which I have been to or have any interest in), Vintage (ditto), and all kinds of other topics. If I loathe the subject or even just have zero interest I'm not tempted to go in there and start spouting my superiority or why it's terrible. It's the same few trolls on every e-bike thread spewing their negativity about anything e-bike related. "Bait". 🤣



Wait, you mean that the internet gave you a link that you were not directly interested in, waiting for even? Say it isnt so.....


----------



## AEyogi (Nov 19, 2021)

Carl Mega said:


> FWIW, I appreciate the OP's effort to construct a sticky with legal riding / access resources. That's needed.
> 
> Historically, mtbr and mountain biking in general has always included controversial topics. Some ya'll have thin skin and it's laughable to think eBikes are singled out, but they are hot in moment... dubious claims about wheelsize benefits are met with pushback just as readily as similar unfounded claims made by ebike advocates. Look at the threads on this site - it's not all just a cheering squad. Near fist fights over chainstay length and leverage ratios. Regardless, mtbr forums are basically meaningless now - feeds and alerts...like it or not, this is what they do - spur engagement. If mtbr offered an eBike filter, I'd probably use it... get some time back and passively pinpoint topics I'm more minded towards... but they don't. As an observation, most the negative ebike threads go south when the supposedly forbidden topics are brought up: poaching, derestriction mods... or a shared topic like changing access in an area.


I just put these retards on ignore, and the threads are becoming more and more pleasant to read. It is also kind of fun to just press a button and someone disappears from my world entirely. Wish I could do that in real life.


----------



## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

Carl Mega said:


> This is good. I encourage ppl to check out, USFS interactive map if you don't already: Forest Service Visitor Map
> 
> Hovering on a trail will give you allowed access. Further, selecting 'dirt bike' will show all the moto/eBike accessible single track.


Wow, thanks! I didn't realize the PCT was open to bikes - same with Wilderness trails in the Angeles NF!  










Seriously, USFS info online is notoriously inaccurate. Prior to their recent redesign the pages for individual trails almost never listed MTB as an allowed use, even on MTB primary trails. 

Quick look at the forests in Socal:

Cleveland NF & Inyo NF - list trails and uses, but seems to just show all trails outside Wilderness as open to bikes. But MTB is definitely not allowed on some of those. 
San Bernardino NF & Los Padres NF - don't list allowed uses
Angeles NF - shows PCT and many trails in Wilderness as open to bikes. Yay! 
Sequoia NF - doesn't even show trails on the map

Each forest shows roads xxxx'd out as closed (or don't show the road at all), which are still open to non-motorized use.

This map is probably better than any other source I've seen from USFS but you still can't rely on it as-is. Hopefully they'll keep updating it. Since e-bikes are not allowed on USFS non-motorized trails the Motor Vehicle Use Maps are your best bet. I think you can get those as a map layer now on some services like Gaia or OnX


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