# most unfriendly places for mountain biking



## roxnroots (Aug 12, 2010)

I really like the mtb paradise thread. Those places are beautiful and its cool that entire mtb communities of riders have developed there. Never take that great riding or having friends to ride with there for granted.

But it got me thinking that I'd really like to hear from those who are creative and/or persistent enough in finding ways to enjoy the sport living in places where riding is limited, few people understand or care about your enthusiasm for mtb, and/or there's few or no decent LBS's to support your interest.

So where are these places? What are the biggest challenges of riding there? How have you overcome them?


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

Here's what I'm thinking for riding might be challenging:

Somalia. Those pirates would be all over you trying to steal your bike, helmet, gloves, etc. Hopefully they'd let you keep your clothes.

Taliban strongholds of Afganistan would probably suck. Those f*ckers all ride horses and probably don't allow any fair bike access to the state parks.

Haiti - good luck finding a good bike shop with an expresso machine.

Boston - a bunch of unfriendly drunken Ma$$holes who find it sporting to run bikers off the road.


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## Mikecito (Jun 2, 2007)

Marin County/Bay Area should be up there on the list.


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## Keepthechange (May 18, 2010)

Scott O said:


> Here's what I'm thinking for riding might be challenging:
> 
> Somalia. Those pirates would be all over you trying to steal your bike, helmet, gloves, etc. Hopefully they'd let you keep your clothes.
> 
> ...


HEY IM FROM BOSTON YOU'Z IDIOT


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

PDX...agro-enviros...Forest Park...no more needs to be said.


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## sputnik (Apr 11, 2010)

Mikecito said:


> Marin County/Bay Area should be up there on the list.


What is your personal experience with living/riding in the Marin County/Bay Area?

What makes you think that the riding in the Bay Area "is limited, few people understand or care about your enthusiasm for mtb, and/or there's few or no decent LBS's to support your interest"?


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## nickwm21 (Aug 15, 2007)

Mikecito said:


> Marin County/Bay Area should be up there on the list.


Thats got to be a joke.

Marin is the one of best places to ride in the bay. The only issue with bay area riding has to be the state parks making single track only hiker/horse friendly. Which is way more prevalent in the East Bay than the North Bay.


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## 2wheelsnotfour (Aug 18, 2010)

Chicagoloand pretty much sucks for mountain biking and cycling. On the roads motorists are complete $$holes and extremely dangerous. They yell and throw sh*t at you. Mountain biking wise there simply aren't good trails. If you find a trail you'll have to ride through swarms of mosquitoes and the weather will probably suck. Brutally cold winters, ridiculously humid summers. The people generally don't like to exercise and don't understand the attraction to bicycles. As a cyclist and mountain biker when I moved to Colorado my quality of life went up astronomically.

2wheels


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## epic (Apr 16, 2005)

Chechnya would probably suck for mountain biking.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

Scott O said:


> Boston - a bunch of unfriendly drunken Ma$$holes who find it sporting to run bikers off the road.


We're talking about Mountain Biking right? Right. Then Boston is one of the best large cities in the US for riding, and the best in the northeast. There are tons of trails tucked in everywhere, and some of the most technical and cared for AM riding you'll find anywhere. However, i could never live there because i'm not a huge fan of the people there either. That's just a personal preference though. It also cost as much as NYC to live around there, and it isn't NYC. The Boston MTB community is unfortunately littered with jerks that give all decent moraled riders a bad name. Openly drinking in the lot, changing openly in the lot, with no regard for people outside of the community or the impact it has on others in the community.

One of the worst places for MTB that i'm aware of is the Adirondack State Park in upstate NY. The Adirondacks are huge, and beautiful. However Mountain biking is not allowed in the majority of the park. So it gets my vote because there is so much potential there that isn't allowed to be tapped. The Dax could be a Mountain bike destination and the area could really benefit from the money. Instead the center of the Dax is littered with struggling towns.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

idbrian said:


> We're talking about Mountain Biking right? Right. . Openly drinking in the lot, changing openly in the lot, with no regard for people outside of the community or the impact it has on others in the community. .


Yes, talking about mtb in Boston. In addition to what you point out above, there are also naked dudes jogging through the woods all year long and the cops do nothing about it.

I think that was me openly drinking and changing in the lot. Sorry.:eekster:


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

Gotta go with S. F L O R I D A for this list. There are two, maybe three good trails (Oleta, Markham, Amelia) but after that, not so much. The guys who build and maintain Markham especially should be recognized in creating such a beautiful Oasis amidst the sweltering heat and humidity. To ride Markham (or any trail) requires 1.5-to-2 times the amount of frustrating windshield time. Yeah you could ride to the trail and arrive sooner but you would never arrive alive. Road rides? Make sure your life insurance is current. It's not so much the climate/geography as it is the transient S. FL society. Their ideals and lifestyle do not value (1) other's, (2) other people in general, or (3)physical activity. 

Apologies in advance to any S. Florida residents. I sympathize with your demise.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

Scott O said:


> I think that was me openly drinking and changing in the lot. Sorry.:eekster:


It's a problem. It ticks me off because i would love to booze it up in the lot but i'm plagued by my consideration for others.

I've seen plenty of Mass plates drinking in the lots at Mt A in Maine. The lot is only a pull off of the side of the main road.


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## JEM2 (Feb 25, 2010)

Scott O said:


> Here's what I'm thinking for riding might be challenging:
> 
> Somalia. Those pirates would be all over you trying to steal your bike, helmet, gloves, etc. Hopefully they'd let you keep your clothes.
> 
> ...


I have to agree about Boston.. the riding may be good but in general the people are a bunch of jacka$$es....

For my vote, the worst place to ride is where they do not allow riding!!
JEM


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

epic said:


> Chechnya would probably suck for mountain biking.


I don't know. They do have some good mountains there.


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## p.doering (Aug 1, 2008)

Boulder, Co.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

JEM2 said:


> I have to agree about Boston.. the riding may be good but in general the people are a bunch of jacka$$es....
> 
> JEM


Oh, and I forgot to add Vermont to my list as well.


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## Huck Pitueee (Apr 25, 2009)

Eastbay stinks. The legal single track is measued in yards instead of miles.There are way too many loose dogs and hikers.I hear rangers give speeding tickets also.


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## sanjuro (Sep 29, 2004)

Santa Barbara. Don't forget your cowbells...


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

idbrian said:


> One of the worst places for MTB that i'm aware of is the Adirondack State Park in upstate NY. The Adirondacks are huge, and beautiful. However Mountain biking is not allowed in the majority of the park. So it gets my vote because there is so much potential there that isn't allowed to be tapped. The Dax could be a Mountain bike destination and the area could really benefit from the money. Instead the center of the Dax is littered with struggling towns.


This is changing. There are several groups working on opening mtb access and building trails across the area. Granted, the area has been slow to embrace mtb's but ADK and NY/NJ Trail Conference have warmed up to mtb's in the past few years, which helps. Plus local govt's are starting to get clued into the potential $$$ that mtb destinations can bring in. Progress... at the speed of government, but at least things are moving in the right direction.


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## jollybeggar (Feb 2, 2004)

Oregon sucks! If your from California you don't want to come here. Only 500 miles of singletrack in Lane county alone, no good events unless you count MBO, Fat55, Cascade Cream Puff. Riding old growth forest, tight switchy singletrack, high Cascades, beautiful rivers trails, gets old after awhile. Forget Post canyon, Fall Creek, Hood River, the MRT, the NUT, Phils trails, OROR, it's all the same ol same ol, endless sweet single track. nothing to see here folks.


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## Mtn-Rider (May 21, 2010)

Most unfriendly is road biking on any street. I gave it up when cars were passing 6 inches from my handlebar. Not very friendly anywhere.


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## NotQuiteClimbing (Jul 26, 2010)

I've only ridden a couple of places but Marin County, where I ride, seems to be pretty unfriendly. I went for a lunchtime ride yesterday at China Camp. There were approximately 8 hikers 2 runners and 10 cyclist that I passed and said hello to. Only one cyclist responded by saying hi in return. I might have gotten a half nod from another cyclist. Either way, seemed pretty unfriendly to me.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

LaSalle, Ontario.

The council passed a local bylaw banning "active recreation" in the town park, woodlots with great singletrack loops became off limit with the sweep of a pen.

There was no scientific study done to support their claim of trail damage by bikers, just some busy bodies who didn't like kids riding too close to their backyards.

http://www2.canada.com/windsorstar/news/story.html?id=7c7265cd-0ad4-4e52-a901-775e442d2add


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## seenvic (Sep 9, 2003)

Lexington, KY. 

A little trail in town that isn't great.

Morehead is an hour to the east. Great riding.

No public lands in Fayette Co. to build trails on. 

Grew up there, but will never move back.


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## mo0se (Jul 31, 2006)

Near any group of roadies?


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## johnnyb (Jan 21, 2004)

sputnik said:


> What is your personal experience with living/riding in the Marin County/Bay Area?
> 
> What makes you think that the riding in the Bay Area "is limited, few people understand or care about your enthusiasm for mtb, and/or there's few or no decent LBS's to support your interest"?


'ole mikecito must have ran into Terri Avillar and her gang of stick carriers. I've lived in Marin for 23 years and sometimes I don't want to leave and ride anywhere else.

Perception and reality of the trails crash into each other here. Sure, it's unfriendly some of the time, but the best riding is when you don't run into ANYBODY.


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## BOAB (Sep 11, 2008)

A friend lived in Boston for a year, she had her bike stolen in the first 3 months and then a loaner bike stolen a week later.


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## trailtrash (Jun 25, 2009)

my neighbors flower garden


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## acctnut (Dec 1, 2008)

Honolulu/ Oahu kinda sucks for anything legal.


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## acctnut (Dec 1, 2008)

Eastern slope of Woodside, CA. These people are unfriendly and evil period.


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## swampboy62 (Feb 10, 2009)

US National Park system.

Yeah, but you knew that.

Allegheny National Forest, PA. They took away the mtb rights on the majority of the good trails a while back. They have the most restrictive mtb policy of any of the eastern Nat'l Forests, as far as I can tell.

The county I work in has no legal mtb trails - Mahoning County, northeast Ohio. Got a great big municipal park, but no mtb trails. That's the Youngstown area.

Steve Z


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## Mikecito (Jun 2, 2007)

sputnik said:


> What is your personal experience with living/riding in the Marin County/Bay Area?
> 
> What makes you think that the riding in the Bay Area "is limited, few people understand or care about your enthusiasm for mtb, and/or there's few or no decent LBS's to support your interest"?


Whoa there. I think the trail conflicts around the Bay well known and old news. Sorry my little quip got your blood pressure up.

For the record, my friends and I started "mountain biking" with BMX bikes all over the Oakland Hills in the late 70's. Even back then we would get the stink eye from park rangers.

I'm happy to live in Washington now with beautiful singletrack and very few user conflicts.


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## BigSharks (Oct 4, 2009)

NE Ohio. One legal trail in Cuyahoga County (Cleveland). It's 2.5 miles long.

What do I get for winning the topic? Can I move to Boulder?


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

nickwm21 said:


> ...Marin is the one of best places to ride in the bay...


That's like being the best ski hill in Saudi Arabia.


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## sputnik (Apr 11, 2010)

Mikecito said:


> Whoa there. I think the trail conflicts around the Bay well known and old news. Sorry my little quip got your blood pressure up.
> 
> For the record, my friends and I started "mountain biking" with BMX bikes all over the Oakland Hills in the late 70's. Even back then we would get the stink eye from park rangers.
> 
> I'm happy to live in Washington now with beautiful singletrack and very few user conflicts.


You didn't get my blood pressure up. You just made me laugh with your inane claims.

So your personal experience with living/riding in the Marin County/Bay Area is in the 70s riding BMX bikes in the Oakland hills.

That's meaningless.

What makes you think that the riding in the Bay Area "is limited, few people understand or care about your enthusiasm for mtb, and/or there's few or no decent LBS's to support your interest"?

Is it just what you've read/imagine or do you have some specific information to support your silly claim?


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## sputnik (Apr 11, 2010)

dave54 said:


> That's like being the best ski hill in Saudi Arabia.


Why?


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## p.doering (Aug 1, 2008)

BigSharks said:


> What do I get for winning the topic? Can I move to Boulder?


Ha, I wasn't being sarcastic about Boulder... a roadie/cross paradise it may be, but a MTB-friendly place it is definitely not. You might as well live in Denver for all the driving you're going to have to do to do any MTBing.


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## LWright (Jan 29, 2006)

Oroville used to suck, but over the years things have gotten much better, damn good in fact, with more in the near future.


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## hazdxb (Oct 11, 2008)

UAE, Dubai 
1. We have 2 trails both of them an hour and a half away from the city
2. We can't ride outside the city since it's all desert and the closest mountains are those 2 trails
3. Our riding season only starts now since its cooled down enough with temps being in the high 90's


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## crashedandburned (Jan 9, 2004)

Southern Maryland.

No real trails nearby. By that I mean pretty much anything south of Waldorf. Roseryville is fun. Not much tech but man you can high ring that entire loop. 9 mile loop that's like a roller coaster. It's about a 20 minute drive north of Waldorf. Further north is Patapsco, Gambrils, the Shed, etc.

OTOH, if you're a roadie, S. Md. is great.


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## Frozenspokes (May 26, 2004)

Minot, ND could be up there on the list. Long winters, no mountains, no MTB community. But on the flip side, we do have a good shop in town, there are a few miles of trail just outside of the city, and the people are generally friendly. 

Fargo on the other hand has NO trails at all. So I think it would have to win.


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## Straz85 (Mar 20, 2009)

Wow, talk about stereotyping Boston. The fact that there is a larger percentage of mountain bikers who are disrespectful doesn't mean we all are, and it also doesn't mean it's unfriendly for mountain biking. There's great riding around here with some of the best maintained trails I've seen. Ever ridden Otis, Lynn Woods, Harold Parker, Trail of Tears, Vietnam, etc? All great riding.

I happen to be a very respectful rider and I have lived in Boston most of my life. I have never changed or drank in a parking lot I wasn't supposed to, I stay off the trails when they're wet, participate in trail maintenance and am very friendly on the trail.


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## Dr. Tweedbucket (Aug 27, 2010)

I second the street riding deal! Why put yourself at risk of some bonehead driver who is probably drunk or texting or both? :???: At least in the woods if you crash, it's your own stupid fault, most things in the woods stay put and all you have to do is avoid hitting them.  

I'm thinking I wouldn't want to ride in Afganistan, Iraq, Iran, Russia, North Korea, Outer Mongolia, on Mercury, Venus, Pluto or any of the moons of Jupiter.


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## Circusjunk (Aug 20, 2004)

JEM2 said:


> I have to agree about Boston.. the riding may be good but in general the people are a bunch of jacka$$es....


Good then Stay away. However , I have had people from all over the world emailing me asking for information about Vietnam , and I have gladly given the information and offered to be a tour guide. I have given lots of tours . ( the farthest being New Zeland ) and since when is an after ride Beer a crime ?


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## rocks'r'friends (Mar 30, 2007)

Pikangikum Ontario. Stuck in the middle of the bush, but not a single decent trail to ride, there are some crappy garbage strewn trails but they are never dry and you are more than likely to run into kids sniffing gas on them, even the roads suck, too many ATVs, wild dogs are a constant threat, the mountain bike community consists of my wife and I, closest bike shop is 6 hours drive and too top it all off it's raining today. 

At least when the long cold winter sets in we can ride the ice:thumbsup:


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

Straz85 said:


> Wow, talk about stereotyping Boston. The *fact *that there is a larger percentage of mountain bikers who are disrespectful doesn't mean we all are, .


I'm sorry, were you trying to downplay the stereotype or support it?


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

Circusjunk said:


> and since when is an after ride Beer a crime ?


Really? Wow. Maybe the problem is just that the people in the lots aren't aware of the law.

Having beers after a ride is cool with me as long as it is hidden from plain sight, and that includes from other users of the park. I'm a huge beer drinker and a drunk for the most part. I would love to hang out in the lot or trail head and have a few, and i have; but not at the expense of promoting a negative stereotype of mountain biking. Do some good and spread the word.

I've encountered more cool riders that not from the Boston Metro. But i've also witnessed the worst trailhead or lot etiquette in the Bos Metro and/or from people from the Bos Metro riding elsewhere.


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

BigSharks said:


> NE Ohio. One legal trail in Cuyahoga County (Cleveland). It's 2.5 miles long.
> 
> What do I get for winning the topic? Can I move to Boulder?


Hehe - no kidding, I think if you add up all the lines in Ray's *INDOOR* mountain bike park (in Cleveland) you have as much or more mileage than the one "real" trail outside...crazy! :madman:


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

South jersey.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

idbrian - Let me try to be a little serious for once on this forum...so I guess you're the guy that sees a speed limit of 55 mph and then always drive that exact speed, not 1mph over, right? No, I bet you're like everyone else that drives a little bit above the posted speed limit because its accepted and its common sense. Same argument with having a few beers in the lot after a ride. Plenty of times we've been in a lot post-ride and the cops have pulled through, seen us having a few, asked how the riding is, and moved on. I can't think of one example over the last 20 years of anyone getting out of hand in a parking lot after a ride? Can you give us one example? And as far as seeing people changing in public - do you really think this is a regional thing and people in Boston like whipping it out in public? I have never seen this! Maybe you're just looking for it a bit too much.

I think you cna look at the Boston area and see on the most active/progressive/successful mtb advocacy groups in the country. For that I say thanks to them for doing an outstanding job of building relationships with land managers, building trails, BUYING LAND TO PRESERVE TRAILS, creating maps/kiosks, hosting rides, and not getting naked in the parking lost (sounds like a bunch of rude jerks, huh?). Think I'll ride Vietnam tonight.

(BTW, you wouldn't happen to be a Yankees fan, would you?)


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## TallChris (Oct 16, 2008)

@ 92gli - and all points on the Eastern Shore... unless you're a roadie and you like dodging horse poo in the Amish lanes while passing cornfield after cornfield in pancake flatness. It's a huntin' fishin' truck drivin' paradise. Glad my time there is long over.


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## pljam67 (Jun 3, 2010)

The Hood


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## Moustache rider (Jun 1, 2007)

p.doering said:


> Ha, I wasn't being sarcastic about Boulder... a roadie/cross paradise it may be, but a MTB-friendly place it is definitely not. You might as well live in Denver for all the driving you're going to have to do to do any MTBing.


You weren't being sarcastic, you were only being misinformed.

City of Boulder has 48 miles of trail open to bikes. 
Boulder county has 46 miles of trail open to bikes. 
National forest to the west has ??? *many* miles of trail open to bikes.


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## abegold (Jan 30, 2004)

UTAH if you have hair on your face, expect descrimination. I bike there often and love the trails but I talk to fellow MTBers and ignore the locals. There is a Moron Church edict against facial hair.
Gooseberry IS my favorite trail.
Was once told by a waitress in SLC, "If you want to have fun, go to Colorado!"
Now I confront bigotry.


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## p.doering (Aug 1, 2008)

Moustache rider said:


> You weren't being sarcastic, you were only being misinformed.
> 
> City of Boulder has 48 miles of trail open to bikes.
> Boulder county has 46 miles of trail open to bikes.
> National forest to the west has ??? *many* miles of trail open to bikes.


Oh, I was misinformed. I guess living there those years was bad info. Call it a trail if you want, but, long as it is, paved walking path doesn't count as mountain biking, nor does that stretch of flat disused access road out by the resevoir.

The county has a little, and the rest of the state of course has what it has, but Boulder, no. There were some very nice local trails, but MTB'ers lost access to those decades ago already, and the attitude is still thoroughly one of hostility toward the sport. Anyone who was part of trying to open the Valmont bike park got can fill you in on how deep it runs.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

Scott O said:


> (BTW, you wouldn't happen to be a Yankees fan, would you?)


I don't like baseball. Red Sox fans got quite the chip on their shoulders huh? Like the younger brother that could never live up to the expectations set by the big brother. This is partially what makes Boston people annoying. I don't even like baseball and have to catch crap about the Yankees all the time.

I like the riding around Boston a lot. I just don't mesh with Boston people well. Not individually, i just couldn't live there. They aren't my kind of people. So this back and forth isn't even appropriate for the thread.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Boy, who would have thought that this thread would get people pissed off and offended


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

idbrian said:


> I don't like baseball.


That's what they all say. Is that you in the center or are you the guy on the right?


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

You're doing it right now Scott-O, that is what Boston people care and talk about. I don't care. 

No, i'm the guy with the "Yankees Suck" bumper sticker on my car. Because that is what is cool.


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## wookie (Jan 24, 2007)

abegold said:


> UTAH if you have hair on your face, expect descrimination. I bike there often and love the trails but I talk to fellow MTBers and ignore the locals. There is a Moron Church edict against facial hair.
> Gooseberry IS my favorite trail.
> Was once told by a waitress in SLC, "If you want to have fun, go to Colorado!"
> Now I confront bigotry.


I live in Utah (non-Mormon) and have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe you should put an aluminum foil hat on your head, so the Aliens/Mormons can't beam thoughts into your head.


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## davidarnott (Feb 28, 2007)

*friendlyunfriendly Montana*

Montana is very friendly when it's not unfriendly. The trails are bountiful when they don't have rattlesnakes coiled up and hissing in the middle of them. The towns are friendly when you meet the friendly members of the town. Then you meet the unfriendly members of the town and the town turns unfriendly in an instant. The department of the Interior is friendly to bicycle riders most of the time. Then they close down trails and it turns unfriendly at that time on that trail. I do encourage friendly type of bicycle riders to visit Montana and ride. Also I do discourage unfriendly type bicycle riders from visiting Montana. These unfriendly bicycle riders I encourage to visit IdaKnow.


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## slim2none (Jun 3, 2009)

*Illinois sucks ass*



2wheelsnotfour said:


> Chicagoloand pretty much sucks for mountain biking and cycling. On the roads motorists are complete $$holes and extremely dangerous. They yell and throw sh*t at you. Mountain biking wise there simply aren't good trails.


I couldn't agree more. Having lived here for almost all of my 39 years, It sucks if you enjoy doing anything active out of doors other than "ball" sports and spending money at malls. If it weren't for my family and friends - I'd be outta here.

Even the states that border Illinois like Wisconsin, Indiana and over into Michigan have way better attitudes and access towards outdoor recreation and cycling. It's astounding how lame Illinois is. :madman:


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## canuckjgc (Jun 22, 2007)

Whistler...........when you show-up on your early 90's rig with biopace, suspension stem and anodized purple bar ends, cold man, just cold.


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## TORO1968 (Oct 9, 2005)

canuckjgc said:


> Whistler...........when you show-up on your early 90's rig with biopace, suspension stem and anodized purple bar ends, cold man, just cold.


Why you gotta dog on Biopace, man???


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## Circusjunk (Aug 20, 2004)

idbrian said:


> Really? Wow. Maybe the problem is just that the people in the lots aren't aware of the law.
> 
> Having beers after a ride is cool with me as long as it is hidden from plain sight, and that includes from other users of the park.


Did I forget to mention that The trail head parking lot is my front yard ?

Jumping to conclusions along with making blanket statements is just stupid and Ignorant as is an awful lot of this bashing going on in this thread .


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## Circusjunk (Aug 20, 2004)

Scott O said:


> Same argument with having a few beers in the lot after a ride. Plenty of times we've been in a lot post-ride and the cops have pulled through, seen us having a few, asked how the riding is, and moved on. I can't think of one example over the last 20 years of anyone getting out of hand in a parking lot after a ride?


I have had the same thing happen many times and the cops have never hassled us.



Scott O said:


> Think I'll ride Vietnam tonight.


Sounds like a plan to me , I think I will do the same. Meet Smokin Joe at the Adams St. lot


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## ravewoofer (Dec 24, 2008)

Scott O said:


> Here's what I'm thinking for riding might be challenging:
> 
> Somalia. Those pirates would be all over you trying to steal your bike, helmet, gloves, etc. Hopefully they'd let you keep your clothes.
> 
> ...


Dude,

I'm 48, work in Boston and live in the exurbs. Respect the trails and the riders respect you. I'm including the equistrians and hikers, too. I ride public and private and respect the trails and property laws. No problem here, and I honk on the trails.

I consider myself very lucky with the amount of trail access literally right out my back door.


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## roxnroots (Aug 12, 2010)

kapusta said:


> Boy, who would have thought that this thread would get people pissed off and offended


Yeah, I was just curious if other places sucked for MTBing as much as where I live, the fast food capital of PA. Its been cool hearing about so many places I've never ridden in but I gotta admit that the dude from North Dakota might have us all beat though! 

In any case, keep riding everybody! Anyone can ride some aspen-line Rockies singletrack but it takes nothing less than a truly dedicated mountain biker to deal with the crappy trails where we live. :thumbsup:


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

Circusjunk said:


> Did I forget to mention that The trail head parking lot is my front yard ?
> 
> Jumping to conclusions along with making blanket statements is just stupid and Ignorant as is an awful lot of this bashing going on in this thread .


I was talking about drinking openly in the lot and then you said since when is drinking beers after riding illegal. If you were talking about your yard why even bother commenting. Weird.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

idbrian said:


> I was talking about drinking openly in the lot and then you said since when is drinking beers after riding illegal. If you were talking about your yard why even bother commenting. Weird.


Stilll waiting for you to give some specific examples of how awful people in MA/Boston are. That's ok, you can just make blanket generalizations about a group of people if that's your m.o. I'll refrain from making similar generalizations of NY'ers and apologize to you for some good natured ribbing in regards to the Sox/Yankees.

Circus - thanks for the invite. Hit Foxy instead. Idbrian would have hated it - It was like the movie, "Caligula", in the parking lot post-ride!


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

The truth is that i have no friends here to drink with in the lot, so i'm jealous.


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## Straz85 (Mar 20, 2009)

idbrian said:


> I'm sorry, were you trying to downplay the stereotype or support it?


He made it sound like everybody from the Boston area was like this. Most stereotypes have some truth to them, but it doesn't make it right to judge people based on them.


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## Circusjunk (Aug 20, 2004)

idbrian said:


> The truth is that i have no friends here to drink with in the lot, so i'm jealous.


Simple you need to come ride with us


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

That Vietnam and Lynn woods **** is intriguing but way beyond my current level.


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## Abraxas (Mar 2, 2009)

Interesting anti-passion thread.

Having lived in the Boston, MA and Boulder, CO areas, the influence of expectations is pretty apparent.

Boston is good because there decent riding within a 40 mile drive, Boulder is terrible because there is not epic riding within 12 mile ride/drive.


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## VMBA (Mar 30, 2008)

*Vt*



Scott O said:


> Oh, and I forgot to add Vermont to my list as well.


Why Vermont? Interested to know. Thanks.


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## 11 Bravo (Mar 12, 2004)

roxnroots said:


> ................. but I gotta admit that the dude from North Dakota might have us all beat though!  .... :thumbsup:


I can't let that go by.

Gillette, Wyoming is a pretty bleak place if you are into mountain biking. There are some bike paths around town which are paved paths that run along the side of the road and some wide sidewalks with signs marking them as bike paths. There is one bike shop in town. It is a Specialized shop and the guy that owns it is a serious first rate ass. I have been inside the place probably three times in the last 5 years. Riding around town could be considered attempted suicide. Campbell County has more trucks per capita than anywhere else in the United States, a lot of them are pulling trailers and people drive like they are in a race or something. I really think half of them never see you at all. I have been "buzzed" many, many times riding the shoulder of the road.

Not a friendly town towards bicyclists. The town sport is puking on you Harley fender outside the bar. If you have a bicycle rather than a Harley most people seem to think you are a *** or something. Winters here are long, cold and windy. 20 below zero is not at all uncommon. Summers go over 100 fairly often.

There is only one official trail in town that is dirt. It is a running trail around one of the parks that you can ride your bike on. Park is about 4 city blocks square. Trail is mostly used for people to walk their dogs and let them crap. The only other dirt trails are along the side of the roads where people ride their motocross motorcycles. I ride my bike on them some, but they are nasty with an amazing amount of rotting road killed animals. The smell is really bad in the spring.

Nearly all the land in the Campbell County is tied up in mining leases or is private ranch land. The ranchers are not very friendly for the most part. Closest real trail is in Buffalo which is 70 miles away and the trail is about 6 miles long. Pretty nice trail really. I like riding it, but it is short and pretty far to drive. There is some riding around Sundance. It is also about 75 miles drive to get to a trail head. Thank God there is some really good riding in the Black Hills. Spearfish is 100 miles East, Rapid City is 150 miles.

For all the bad, lots of people like it here. There is good hunting, a big Harley shop, close to gambling in Deadwood, close to Sturgis for the bikers, and best of all, some very good jobs.

As long as my job keeps me here I just make the best of it. It's not hell, but you can see the gates from here.


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## dyersburgguy (Mar 21, 2009)

11 Bravo said:


> I can't let that go by.
> 
> Gillette, Wyoming is a pretty bleak place if you are into mountain biking. There are some bike paths around town which are paved paths that run along the side of the road and some wide sidewalks with signs marking them as bike paths. There is one bike shop in town. It is a Specialized shop and the guy that owns it is a serious first rate ass. I have been inside the place probably three times in the last 5 years. Riding around town could be considered attempted suicide. Campbell County has more trucks per capita than anywhere else in the United States, a lot of them are pulling trailers and people drive like they are in a race or something. I really think half of them never see you at all. I have been "buzzed" many, many times riding the shoulder of the road.
> 
> ...


I guess Finley,TN isn't as bad as I thought.


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## roxnroots (Aug 12, 2010)

11 Bravo said:


> I can't let that go by.
> 
> Gillette, Wyoming is a pretty bleak place if you are into mountain biking. There are some bike paths around town which are paved paths that run along the side of the road and some wide sidewalks with signs marking them as bike paths. There is one bike shop in town. It is a Specialized shop and the guy that owns it is a serious first rate ass. I have been inside the place probably three times in the last 5 years. Riding around town could be considered attempted suicide. Campbell County has more trucks per capita than anywhere else in the United States, a lot of them are pulling trailers and people drive like they are in a race or something. I really think half of them never see you at all. I have been "buzzed" many, many times riding the shoulder of the road.
> 
> ...


Fair enough, let's just say riding on the northern Great Plains (outside the Black Hills) in general sucks. :madman:


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

acctnut said:


> Eastern slope of Woodside, CA. These people are unfriendly and evil period.


nothing like a little silent chumming down hams gulch:thumbsup:


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## BurkeVT (Jul 11, 2003)

Scott O said:


> Oh, and I forgot to add Vermont to my list as well.


Yeah, stay away from Vermont. No fun there.


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## mealsonwheels (Mar 6, 2004)

Scott O said:


> Haiti - good luck finding a good bike shop with an expresso machine.


I was in Haiti this summer and had great Haitian coffee, and found singletrack everywhere but the singletrack turned out to be walkways to people's homes/huts. Sadly the people are too poor to have the luxury of recreational activities like mtn biking. They can't even keep their beautiful black sand beaches clean let alone establish trails and designated open space. I agree the birthplace of mtn biking, Marin County, has to be the most unfriendly place for mtn biking.


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## Circusjunk (Aug 20, 2004)

idbrian said:


> That Vietnam and Lynn woods **** is intriguing but way beyond my current level.


Bull!

I have led Rank Beginners on Rides in Vietnam. Its Just a matter of knowing what trails to take and More importantly , what trails NOT to take!


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## jcufari (Jun 20, 2008)

I live in Mounroe County which is located just outside Rocehster, NY. Bikes are not allowed on any trail inside the county. I can not even begin to quantify the number of miles of trail that can not be used by mountain bikers but it is a lot. I poach a few trails but other have to be avoided because of fanatical hikers and equestrians.


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## watersnowdirt (Aug 31, 2010)

I glanced passed all of the Boston bashing (and subsequent defending), but not before giggling a bit. I'm an East Coast transplant, and I love Boston and love the people there. I'm in CA now, and definitely don't find people to be any friendlier here.

Will add that in the true sense of the word "unfriendly", I'd agree with Marin County being on there. Seems like no one says hello any more. That just makes me sad. I'm always acknowledging other bikers, hikers, and horseback riders, but hardly anyone says hi first and rarely says hi back. Not sure what that's about. But sure, we have some decent legal riding here.

Amazingly, and probably surprisingly, the most "friendly" place I've ever mountain biked was in Rwanda and then Kenya. Literally, throngs of people running up to you with huge smiles and laughter. Best and most fun biking ever. Sort of like the anti-Marin. Opened my eyes quite a bit (but that's a whole other thread!)


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## Jaybo (Mar 5, 2008)

*Oh, boy, Bob*



abegold said:


> UTAH if you have hair on your face, expect descrimination. I bike there often and love the trails but I talk to fellow MTBers and ignore the locals. There is a Moron Church edict against facial hair.
> Gooseberry IS my favorite trail.
> Was once told by a waitress in SLC, "If you want to have fun, go to Colorado!"
> Now I confront bigotry.


We have a victim!


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## Orkje (May 3, 2006)

> It's not hell, but you can see the gates from here.


Funniest quote in quite a while! I feel for you, though...


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## Abraxas (Mar 2, 2009)

Fourmile Canyon area in Boulder is currently very unfriendly


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

slim2none said:


> I couldn't agree more. Having lived here for almost all of my 39 years, It sucks if you enjoy doing anything active out of doors other than "ball" sports and spending money at malls. If it weren't for my family and friends - I'd be outta here.
> 
> Even the states that border *Chicago* like *Illinois*, Wisconsin, Indiana and over into Michigan have way better attitudes and access towards outdoor recreation and cycling. It's astounding how lame *Chicago* is. :madman:


Slim, I had to edit your post. Fixed it perfectly. Chi-Town is a state unto itself. If you've got 3hrs windshield time in any direction, N, S, E, or W I can clue you in on pristine singletrack. Worthy of a Ferris-Buehler's-Day-Off-Epic less the Ferrari.

What's sad is Chicago is now claiming Rockford as a NW suburb. Yeah, there are drive times to O'Hare on I90 as you cross the WI/IL boarder. Un be leave able.


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## thorkild (Jul 22, 2008)

Portland, but definitely not Oregon. Biggest contrast I have ever seen anywhere. Mountain biking in Oregon is as good as almost anywhere. Mountain Biking in Portland is non-existent and gets treated worse than homeless people and child molesters.


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## mikerod87 (Apr 22, 2009)

BigSharks said:


> NE Ohio. One legal trail in Cuyahoga County (Cleveland). It's 2.5 miles long.
> 
> What do I get for winning the topic? Can I move to Boulder?


First of all FFFFF Lebronadict James and Cleveland gets my vote as well.

I live in Florida now but started riding in Cleveland. There is soo much opportunity there with the hills and the Cleveland metroparks. I would ride the horse trails on SOM /Metroparks in Solon and go E ride to Chagrin. Lots of rivers and awesome XC even if its illegal. I would never scare the horses though!!!

Rays is awesome!!!


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

Scott O said:


> Here's what I'm thinking for riding might be challenging:
> 
> Somalia. Those pirates would be all over you trying to steal your bike, helmet, gloves, etc. Hopefully they'd let you keep your clothes.
> 
> ...


I don't know where you guys are riding around Boston, but I've been living here for 4 years and love the riding community. Almost everyone I meet on the trail or in the parking lot of riding spots is friendly and more than happy to chat or help out.

I've run into dozens of people riding and ended up riding with them and have a great time. Some of the people I ride with regularly are just random people I've met riding.

Not to mention I can think of 20 great spots to ride within an hour of Boston. I've got tons of choices to ride in my free time. I used to live in VT, NH and Washington (state) and there is much better riding around Boston.

As for bike theft in Boston. If you care about your bike, you don't let it out of your sight. I've never had a bike stolen in Boston because I'm not dumb enough to use a crappy lock in a populated area, nor I am dumb enough store it anywhere but behind a locked door. Use the T or walk, if you are riding your bike around Boston its only a matter of time before its stolen.


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## Colonel Flagg (Jan 7, 2006)

abegold said:


> UTAH if you have hair on your face, expect descrimination. I bike there often and love the trails but I talk to fellow MTBers and ignore the locals. There is a Moron Church edict against facial hair.
> Gooseberry IS my favorite trail.
> Was once told by a waitress in SLC, "If you want to have fun, go to Colorado!"
> Now I confront bigotry.


You're an idiot.


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## Dag Nabbit (May 27, 2009)

swampboy62 said:


> The county I work in has no legal mtb trails - Mahoning County, northeast Ohio. *Got a great big municipal park, but no mtb trails.* That's the Youngstown area.
> 
> Steve Z


Mill Creek? Nice park for sure. Skipped school there quite a few times. Ah, good ol' Y-town. Glad I didn't start riding until I moved to AZ or else I might not have stuck with it, considering the dearth of good trail in NE Ohio. Lots and lots of good stuff in the desert! I tried riding in PA one summer when I went home, but all I found were cross country ski trails. I forget what park it was because it was, well, forgettable. Super happy I made it out west!


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Marin? Hah!*

East Bay Regional park District is the worst hands down!

We're number 1!

We're number 1!

We're number 1!


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

you guys from the bay area have it *good*. you guys have no idea! you cant go 10 feet in the east bay without having a place to ride. marin too.

im in portland now. theres no place to ride here, at all. im dying for a tamarancho, jmp.. hell, even a pleasanton ridge for a quick loop. here there is nothing.


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## SBT (Mar 29, 2010)

Frozenspokes said:


> Minot, ND could be up there on the list. Long winters, no mountains, no MTB community. But on the flip side, we do have a good shop in town, there are a few miles of trail just outside of the city, and the people are generally friendly.
> 
> Fargo on the other hand has NO trails at all. So I think it would have to win.


I used to live in Fargo. Not much else to say but, "Yeah."


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

One Pivot said:


> you guys from the bay area have it *good*. you guys have no idea! you cant go 10 feet in the east bay without having a place to ride. marin too.


+1

Just returned back to the Bay area after spending 4 years in Minneapolis. Minneapolis has an impressive network of trails for a metro area. However, the first time I went riding there some 'trail steward' yelled at me for riding because it had rained 2 days before and the trails weren't "ready" - even though the trail was open at the time. This was when I learned that they close the trails even if the clouds "look" like they could drop some rain. I understand the need to not ride muddy trails in order to prevent erosion and trail damage, but in Minneapolis they are downright anal about it. There's 4 to 5 months out of the year when you can't mountain bike, period. People there don't say "Hi", don't invite you to ride with them if you ride up and are friendly with them and don't go out of their way to help newcomers feel welcome. Minnesota Nice is a misnomer in the off road cycling community.

Then there's the part about driving 45 minutes to get to the best riding spot around the Twin Cities, which is a moderately hilly 5 mile loop of singletrack through the woods. It took 2 laps to break a sweat and the highest climb was about 30 vertical feet.

Now I smile ear to ear every day as I ride from my house into Annadel State Park.

MN gave me a lifelong appreciation of what we have here; world class trails, enthusiastic, friendly, welcoming people and year-round riding.


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## jbs166 (Dec 28, 2007)

Southeast Alabama, closest good trail is at least 2hrs away. There is one here that is decent, if you enjoy going round and round and seeing the same flat sandy scenery over and over again. It's always humid, at sunup in the summers it's 85 degrees with 98% humidity. I wish I lived about 3hrs north. One positive is that there is no snow and you can ride the one trail year round. Over and over again.


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## powpig2002 (Sep 13, 2009)

i think the sheepfold at the fells is awesome. i've never seen a friendlier bunch of guys anywhere. had offers to show me around the woods. they didn't even have bikes. heck, a couple of the fellas said they'd give me a massage. yup, that place sure was friendly


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## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

*...*



thorkild said:


> Portland, but definitely not Oregon. Biggest contrast I have ever seen anywhere. Mountain biking in Oregon is as good as almost anywhere. Mountain Biking in Portland is non-existent and gets treated worse than homeless people and child molesters.


I lived at the bottom of Forest Park ten years ago and found decent singletrack in the back 50, probably posted illegal now but was sweet back in the day.

If you don't have singletrack out your back door yer doing it wrong.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

powpig2002 said:


> i think the sheepfold at the fells is awesome. i've never seen a friendlier bunch of guys anywhere. had offers to show me around the woods. they didn't even have bikes. heck, a couple of the fellas said they'd give me a massage. yup, that place sure was friendly


Yeah, those nice guys are always willing to give you the shirt off their back. And the pants off their legs.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

I'm from Indianapolis but have lived in Breckenridge Colorado for almost 30 years which is one of the best places in the country for Mtn biking. I guess I'm pretty spoiled but when I go back to Indy to visit family, I don't take my Mtn Bike. It's not that it's "unfriendly" so much it's just that 1. The terrain is flat 2. There's not a lot of public land and 3, Municipal parks aren't real big and get a lot of use so Mtn biking probably isn't a good fit in a lot of those places.

That said, Indiana seems to have a great MTB organization that has done some good things where mtn biking can fit in the city and about an hour or so drive away is Brown County State park and surrounding areas which apparently (I haven't ridden there as of yet) have some of the best riding in the Midwest. 

I guess I'm just spoiled from having hundreds of miles of great trails literally right out my front door. It's easy to think other places suck when you compare them to that.


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## hurtssogood (Jul 21, 2008)

Reno, NV. Not horrible, I guess, just a huge letdown. Sure, Tahoe is close, and there are some trails right out of town, but Reno should be off the hook. It's surrounded by mountains, and can be ridden most of the year. Really, that goes for the whole state of Nevada. There are some good rides to be found, but it's the most mountainous state in the country, and almost the least populated. There should be kick-ass singletrack everywhere. I guess living in Breckenridge and Tahoe have spoiled me a bit.


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## tkavan01 (Jun 1, 2004)

hurtssogood said:


> Reno, NV. Not horrible, I guess, just a huge letdown. Sure, Tahoe is close, and there are some trails right out of town, but Reno should be off the hook. It's surrounded by mountains, and can be ridden most of the year. Really, that goes for the whole state of Nevada. There are some good rides to be found, but it's the most mountainous state in the country, and almost the least populated. There should be kick-ass singletrack everywhere. I guess living in Breckenridge and Tahoe have spoiled me a bit.


you have to look at what you said, there is not enough population to support good trails through most of the state, also at least down here around the pinenuts it is either very sand or very rocky, not much hardpack and very little shade... a dirtbike can get around fine, but try taking a mtn bike down the same trails and you won't get far up the steep hills with powder like dust everywhere...


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

hazdxb said:


> UAE, Dubai
> 1. We have 2 trails both of them an hour and a half away from the city
> 2. We can't ride outside the city since it's all desert and the closest mountains are those 2 trails
> 3. Our riding season only starts now since its cooled down enough with temps being in the high 90's


Qatar is just the same... Just that the maximum elevation in the country is like 40m above sea level.

Qatar has a very nice winter, though... when wind starts blowing, which kind of sucks given how flat the place is.

Tampico, Mexico is not far off as bad... flat, no good trails, hot, humid... Very nice place to go to the beach, though.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

hurtssogood said:


> Reno, NV. Not horrible, I guess, just a huge letdown. Sure, Tahoe is close, and there are some trails right out of town, but Reno should be off the hook. It's surrounded by mountains, and can be ridden most of the year. Really, that goes for the whole state of Nevada. There are some good rides to be found, but it's the most mountainous state in the country, and almost the least populated. There should be kick-ass singletrack everywhere. I guess living in Breckenridge and Tahoe have spoiled me a bit.


Interesting. I wondered about Reno before. I thought it would have great riding. Curious, when people are referring to "Tahoe" what city/town and state are they referring to?


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## Barcanova76 (Dec 5, 2010)

Dr. Tweedbucket said:


> I second the street riding deal! Why put yourself at risk of some bonehead driver who is probably drunk or texting or both? :???: At least in the woods if you crash, it's your own stupid fault, most things in the woods stay put and all you have to do is avoid hitting them.
> 
> I'm thinking I wouldn't want to ride in Afganistan, Iraq, Iran, Russia, North Korea, Outer Mongolia, on Mercury, Venus, Pluto or any of the moons of Jupiter.


Can I ask why you would not want to ride in Iran??? I hope it's not because of smoe narrow minded views!!


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## abegold (Jan 30, 2004)

Barcanova76 said:


> Can I ask why you would not want to ride in Iran??? I hope it's not because of smoe narrow minded views!!


Maybe because 3 Americans were imprisoned, 2 remain, for just going on a hike to see a waterfall near the border and they are now treated as spies.


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## Barcanova76 (Dec 5, 2010)

Well they should not have been on Iranian land without a visa should they? It's their own fault really, how dumb can you get!! 
Any-way if that's your only reason then get over it, as long as you get the right visa and you behave yourself Iran is a most brilliant and beutiful land, it has great mountain ranges, beautiful historical sites, amazing food, very very very generous and kind and helpful people..Im british (media would have you beleive they hate us as much as they hate you guys) and have now visited 5 times so far, never a spot of trouble, so please I urge you to think again about saying Iran is an unfriendly place for mountain biking, Afghanistan and Iraq I'll agree with for now though!!!
God bless you
GN


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## jollybeggar (Feb 2, 2004)

I would love to visit Iran but not in the current political climate. It's up for debate whether those hikers were actually on Iranian soil, what is not up for debate is the ridiculous treatment they've received, they are being used as political pawns in a dangerous game. They should have been released within twenty-four hours. I'd wouldn't think of visiting Iran if that's how they treat folks who get lost and wander on the wrong side of the street.

I'm sure they've got some "killer" singletrack.


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## dru (Sep 4, 2006)

Barcanova76 said:


> I urge you to think again about saying Iran is an unfriendly place for mountain biking, Afghanistan and Iraq I'll agree with for now though!!!
> God bless you
> GN


Yeah, I'm sure it would be a great place for biking if you chose to wear spandex, or if you happened to be of the fairer sex, spandex or not.

I imagine it would be a hoot trying to mountain bike wearing a burka.

Drew


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## abegold (Jan 30, 2004)

Russia would be one of the first places I would love to ride, on the Kamchatka Peninsula, extreme eastern Russia. One of the most active volcanic regions on earth with lots of wildlife it might be mountain bike heaven in summer.
Also read about a MTB race around Lake Baikal that fascinates me as my father was a prisoner of war there in WW2. Do they allow bikes on the Trans Siberian railroad?
Mongolia also interest me but more as an investor in the rapidly growing mining industry than as a place to ride, but thats cause I know nothing about what I would want to ride, except a lush river valley that borders China.


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## tyler243 (Oct 28, 2009)

*Iran...*

if you honestly believe that all Iran has to offer for mountain biking is spandex covered riders head on of the the Downhill-Freeride forum and check out post by SABER_MTB that should give you an idea of their riding...


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## dru (Sep 4, 2006)

tyler243 said:


> if you honestly believe that all Iran has to offer for mountain biking is spandex covered riders head on of the the Downhill-Freeride forum and check out post by SABER_MTB that should give you an idea of their riding...


That is some cool riding, I have to stand corrected.

I guess it was the flagrant human rights abuses and stoning of women that made me think the riding must have sucked.

Drew


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## Barcanova76 (Dec 5, 2010)

dru said:


> Yeah, I'm sure it would be a great place for biking if you chose to wear spandex, or if you happened to be of the fairer sex, spandex or not.
> 
> I imagine it would be a hoot trying to mountain bike wearing a burka.
> 
> Drew


No-one wears a Burka in Iran..yeah fair enough the ladies dont go around showing their tits and ass for every one to see and they dont walk down the street at night wearing next to nothing and vomminting in the gutter like they do in the west!! 
It's the dirty arabs that wear the Burka anyway!!!
Educate yourself!!


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## Barcanova76 (Dec 5, 2010)

dru said:


> That is some cool riding, I have to stand corrected.
> 
> I guess it was the flagrant human rights abuses and stoning of women that made me think the riding must have sucked.
> 
> Drew


You tell me of a country that does not abuse human rights in some way??


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## DWill (Aug 24, 2010)

In my younger days in my old job I was looking forward to going to Iran. 

I had a bunch of missiles hanging off the jet and was really looking forward to a vist to Iran.


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## Barcanova76 (Dec 5, 2010)

hahahaha, nice reply!!!!


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## brianW. (Nov 15, 2010)

each community is different. When I lived in southern New Hampshire it was a very hiker/xc ski friendly area but if you wanted to do anything else on the trail (mt bike, snowshoe or trail run) you at least got a not so friendly look but a lot of times an earful.

Moved to the Augusta, GA area and mt bikers basically maintain all the hiking trails so we can ride. The hikers i have talked to appreciate what we do and realize the trails would be lost or at least in poorer conditions.

As for the trail head activities, I have seen what some would call negative, both in New England and in the southeast. However I do not feel having a beer after a ride, or hike, or....is negative if you are responsible. As for rudeness I have seen this from people from all over and in my opinion it seems to be getting worse the older I become. I just treat people how I expect to be treated.


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## tcapri87 (Jan 17, 2009)

Loch Raven, MD. It is in northen Baltimore County and is by far the best riding in Baltimore County and city. There was a plan in 1998 that limited biking to only the fire roads. however, it didnt go enforced for 11 years and about 37 miles of single track sprung up around the reservoir. In november of 2009, 3 bikers got ticketed for night biking. it was the first enforcement they have done since 1998. On and off, the local mountain bike organization and the DPW have been meeting. however the government officials have largely done silent with the mountain bike group and recently have heavily been writing tickets to bikers who are always courteous. DPW have seemed to largely target bikers, even though there are several other problems that they could be working on that would threaten the watershed. Oh and by the way, there is a city owned golf course that is right on the waters edge that doesn't seem to spray fertilizer at all that would never go in the water.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

brianW. said:


> each community is different. When I lived in southern New Hampshire it was a very hiker/xc ski friendly area but if you wanted to do anything else on the trail (mt bike, snowshoe or trail run) you at least got a not so friendly look but a lot of times an earful.
> 
> Moved to the Augusta, GA area and mt bikers basically maintain all the hiking trails so we can ride. The hikers i have talked to appreciate what we do and realize the trails would be lost or at least in poorer conditions.
> 
> As for the trail head activities, I have seen what some would call negative, both in New England and in the southeast. However I do not feel having a beer after a ride, or hike, or....is negative if you are responsible. As for rudeness I have seen this from people from all over and in my opinion it seems to be getting worse the older I become. I just treat people how I expect to be treated.


I was on here a few months ago talking bad about Mass riders and have since then ridden mass trials pretty much every weekend. They have some of the best trails i've been on (HP/Lynn Woods). The riders i meet on the trails range from pleasant to indifferent, in other words no bad encounters. Mass and Conn riders seem to be the mecca of clean cut and successful looking men in their late thirties to early fifties with high end bikes. That has nothing to do with anything. I think i was harsh on Mass riders, and any group in a urban area is going to have its bad seeds. I am not against beers that are drank discretely in the lot after a ride, and like them myself. I was mainly venting on Mass plates i saw on a few occasions up in York Maine drinking right off the side of the main road. It just doesn't look favorable to onlookers. And personally i tend to be more discrete when i'm someone else's backyard. My rant against Mass riders doesn't even make sense in this thread because Mass is one of the most MTB accommodating states in the Northeast.


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## mtnbkrid (Jan 30, 2004)

Boise Idaho sucks, don't come here.


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## eof4si2 (Dec 3, 2010)

Anything having to do with some other NJ discussion web site.


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## JEM2 (Feb 25, 2010)

I think Scott-O should lead us in a ride to kill the sterotype.... I have had a few issues with people from Boston as of late... I was heading to Beantown for a event and was bringing my bike so i could ride.. I posted up in the Mass section of the froum and all i got was no riding, go by yourself,no one will lead you, etc.... So if Boston has so much to offer then I will throw my bike in the car and head south... anyone??
JEM


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## Deebs (Oct 13, 2009)

Clever!

You should go find any threads about bikes that suck and say "any bike ridden by anyone affiliated with some other NJ discussion web site"

And about beers that suck "any beer that anyone from some other NJ discussion site likes"

Maybe foods that suck, cars that suck, you know, run with it! There's no limit to the where your grudge might take you.

NJ is a great place to ride, I've ridden with people on both sides of the current "I've decided to have my wedding the same day as you" fiasco and found them to be friendly enough. You get what you bring to the party. Somehow, I'm wondering if a ride in NJ with you would be all that friendly.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

Barcanova76 said:


> You tell me of a country that does not abuse human rights in some way??


Here in America, we like to keep our abuses a secret and pretend they never happened. We also dismiss other abuses as "casualties of war."


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## vic06 (Nov 24, 2010)

Memphis has consistently ranked high of most bike unfriendly cities in the US for the last few years. Fortunately, though, a recent "rails to trails" project was finished and the push of a bunch of young people are reversing the trend.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

eof4si2 said:


> Anything having to do with some other NJ discussion web site.


MTBNJ is an awesome awesome site. I wish New England had a site like that. There are a few good ones here but i think the it keeps the forum member count spread thin amongst them. Cool that NJ has one site with a lot of traffic and a sweet map/ride finder.

I also liked the people on that site. They rule those forums with an iron fist, so it isn't a good place to be a forum troll.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

JEM2 said:


> I think Scott-O should lead us in a ride to kill the sterotype.... I have had a few issues with people from Boston as of late... I was heading to Beantown for a event and was bringing my bike so i could ride.. I posted up in the Mass section of the froum and all i got was no riding, go by yourself,no one will lead you, etc.... So if Boston has so much to offer then I will throw my bike in the car and head south... anyone??
> JEM


I'm surprised, usually there are people offering up rides.

I go to Harold Parker with just the map and no guide and have an awesome ride every time. The map is good. I can give you pointers if you ever want to venture out there.


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## Scarsandtears (Sep 18, 2010)

JEM2 said:


> I think Scott-O should lead us in a ride to kill the sterotype.... I have had a few issues with people from Boston as of late... I was heading to Beantown for a event and was bringing my bike so i could ride.. I posted up in the Mass section of the froum and all i got was no riding, go by yourself,no one will lead you, etc.... So if Boston has so much to offer then I will throw my bike in the car and head south... anyone??
> JEM


I would be more than happy to show you around Lynn Woods anytime. Hit me up.:thumbsup:


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## SofaKing Fast (Nov 30, 2005)

What fourm did that take place on?



JEM2 said:


> I think Scott-O should lead us in a ride to kill the sterotype.... I have had a few issues with people from Boston as of late... I was heading to Beantown for a event and was bringing my bike so i could ride.. I posted up in the Mass section of the froum and all i got was no riding, go by yourself,no one will lead you, etc.... So if Boston has so much to offer then I will throw my bike in the car and head south... anyone??
> JEM


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## osmarandsara (Jun 26, 2006)

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Los Angeles County. Griffith Park which is less than 10 miles from downtown is one of the largest urban parks in America at 4,200 acres.......mountain bikes are not allowed anywhere except paved roads.....


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## NorToSoCal (Oct 29, 2010)

osmarandsara said:


> I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Los Angeles County. Griffith Park which is less than 10 miles from downtown is one of the largest urban parks in America at 4,200 acres.......mountain bikes are not allowed anywhere except paved roads.....


I'll mention Los Angeles County for you. I live there (UCLA area), and don't even bother going East. That's for the birds. The West is actually pretty good... there are the Santa Monica Mountains, which I ride in weekly. It's got its mix of everything, pretty much. Lots of singletrack, long, sweepy fire roads and trails, etc. The only thing that sucks is that some of the lower entrances into the mountains are hiker only, and you've got to poach to get in there from the South.

I would like to explore more of the further east, though, there are lots of hills and open space in the Angeles National Forest that I haven't checked out, yet. Maybe it's protected riding there? I don't know. I just moved here, though, so that's my excuse for not knowing.

You must not know of the urban mountain biking scene, either. I'm the current president. The riding mostly involves sidewalk/road riding at high speeds through city streets and neighborhoods. I have been through all of beverly hills, bel air, west hollywood, and the hollywood hills areas. Not to mention training around campus by doing hill repeats and intervals, and riding on the jogger trails there, too. I ride a hybrid dirt/street tire fyi. It's the only way to fly


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## bikeguy0 (Aug 5, 2007)

nickwm21 said:


> Thats got to be a joke.
> 
> Marin is the one of best places to ride in the bay. The only issue with bay area riding has to be the state parks making single track only hiker/horse friendly. Which is way more prevalent in the East Bay than the North Bay.


East Bay is horrible!!!! Lived there for 2 years and had to drive 45 minutes to ride on anything other than 8 foot wide fire road. Hated it so much I moved back to Colorado. Worst experience.... 99% of trails had signs stating "No bicycles allowed on single track". WTF fricking hiker and equestrian lobby's..


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## finerbiner (Nov 5, 2004)

You make the best with what you've got but Chicago sucks. we really only have Palos and Saw Wee Kee. Both are a good ride but limited. In Dupage county it is illegal to ride any trail under 8' wide. Stupidest law ever! The only saving grace is that CAMBR is first class and the community of riders is great. Wisconsin is a hidden gem though.


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## BigTex91 (Oct 28, 2010)

osmarandsara said:


> I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Los Angeles County. Griffith Park which is less than 10 miles from downtown is one of the largest urban parks in America at 4,200 acres.......mountain bikes are not allowed anywhere except paved roads.....


Yeah, you'd think with all those trails there would be a couple where bikes and people could coexist.... But there are so many other places to ride nearby, the lack of riding in Grifith Park is less of an issue. And LA is right next to Orange County, which is one of the best urban areas to be a mountain biker.


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## ktm300 (Aug 7, 2006)

Barcanova76 said:


> No-one wears a Burka in Iran..yeah fair enough the ladies dont go around showing their tits and ass for every one to see and they dont walk down the street at night wearing next to nothing and vomminting in the gutter like they do in the west!!
> ...QUOTE]
> 
> Yes, is this a great country or what? USA! USA!
> ...


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## bridger (Dec 7, 2010)

swampboy62 said:


> US National Park system.
> 
> Yeah, but you knew that.
> 
> ...


I remember shredding Marienville trail back in the early 90's. Ther even had a race there every fall. before I left PA it began to get chocked with yahoo atv riders though. Marienville trail was indeed an epic ride though!


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## Haus Boss (Jun 4, 2010)

Marin/County is a two-sided issue. On the one hand, the area is home to 7+ million people which means users of all types on the trails and in open spaces. Many of the areas around open space are more expensive with lots of older and retired trail users- many who are unfriendly towards mountain bikers. We also have a substantial population of enviro-tards and aggro-bike haters who's life goal is harrassing mtb riders and destroying and sometimes booby trapping our trails. We've also been shut out completely from many trail systems, and I would bet that mountain bikers have legal access to less than 10% of the total singletrack on public lands in the Bay Area. 

Because of many of these factors, a gopher hole effect has come into play. Shut down legal access, and people start blazing their own trails. While Marin has around 20 miles of legal singletrack for bikes (out of 500+ miles of singletrack trails), there's a substantial network of unofficial trails. And if you know when and where to ride, you can find yourself alone on an empty singletrack without a hiker in sight.


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## JUNGLEKID5 (May 1, 2006)

idbrian said:


> Really? Wow. Maybe the problem is just that the people in the lots aren't aware of the law.
> 
> Having beers after a ride is cool with me as long as it is hidden from plain sight, and that includes from other users of the park. I'm a huge beer drinker and a drunk for the most part. I would love to hang out in the lot or trail head and have a few, and i have; but not at the expense of promoting a negative stereotype of mountain biking. Do some good and spread the word.
> 
> I've encountered more cool riders that not from the Boston Metro. But i've also witnessed the worst trailhead or lot etiquette in the Bos Metro and/or from people from the Bos Metro riding elsewhere.


 you should go to boise ID if you think boston is bad they drink every wear..


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## roxnroots (Aug 12, 2010)

eof4si2 said:


> Anything having to do with some other NJ discussion web site.


As someone born in the Garden State and now live only 10 miles into PA now, I gotta say be careful making fun of N.J..  As home to the Boss, high taxes, the Pine Barrens, A.C. the "real" Jersey Shore,"strategically aggressive" driving on the Parkway and NJTP, Martha Stewart, the Sopranos, traffic circles, the Housewives, Edison's laboratory, the country's most disputed bear hunt, Princeton, and the big guy himself Governor Chris Christie, N.J.'s not perfect but it doesn't have to be. Ya gotta love it warts and all - no poser state here.


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## Scarsandtears (Sep 18, 2010)

This is a joke right. Boston has THE friendiest riders I have encountered anywhere. 
I lived in So. Calif., the rudest stuck up ego pricks you will ever come across, everyone thought they were Kyle Straight...
San Fran was a bit better but still had a tude of elitism.
Of course I haven't ridden everywhere and this is my opinion, but I have never, ever had a bad experience riding North of Boston on the North shore, been riding there since 92'...


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## JEM2 (Feb 25, 2010)

Scarsandtears said:


> I would be more than happy to show you around Lynn Woods anytime. Hit me up.:thumbsup:


Ill take you up on that... I would love to ride some of these trails I hear about... Ill bring a growler of local brew too!
JEM


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## smilycook (Jan 13, 2004)

Life is just too short to live where the riding sucks!


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## Scarsandtears (Sep 18, 2010)

JEM2 said:


> Ill take you up on that... I would love to ride some of these trails I hear about... Ill bring a growler of local brew too!
> JEM


Sounds good, we got a solid crew here, friendly and cool.


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## mouthbreathr (Dec 7, 2010)

2wheelsnotfour said:


> Chicagoloand pretty much sucks for mountain biking and cycling. On the roads motorists are complete $$holes and extremely dangerous. They yell and throw sh*t at you. Mountain biking wise there simply aren't good trails. If you find a trail you'll have to ride through swarms of mosquitoes and the weather will probably suck. Brutally cold winters, ridiculously humid summers. The people generally don't like to exercise and don't understand the attraction to bicycles. As a cyclist and mountain biker when I moved to Colorado my quality of life went up astronomically.
> 
> 2wheels


I learned to love mountain biking while growing up in the Chicago burbs (Naperville). I agree with you completely about the angry motorist bit. Now that I live in the Northeast-lots of motorists on very tight roads- I can't figure out what the hostility is about. The roads out there are really wide with plenty of shoulder space. Maybe it's the SUV cowboy mentallity

Yeah the mosquitos suck and the terrain is ****ing flat, but there are some ok places to go. Kettle moraine aint bad and there is always Palos if you don't want to make the trip.


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## dirtyjack (Jan 22, 2010)

JEM2 said:


> I think Scott-O should lead us in a ride to kill the sterotype.... I have had a few issues with people from Boston as of late... I was heading to Beantown for a event and was bringing my bike so i could ride.. I posted up in the Mass section of the froum and all i got was no riding, go by yourself,no one will lead you, etc.... So if Boston has so much to offer then I will throw my bike in the car and head south... anyone??
> JEM


Jem, next time you're up this way I'd be happy to hook you up with my homies. We generally ride from Blue Hills and points south, down to Cape Cod. Lots of good spots.


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## mouthbreathr (Dec 7, 2010)

Scarsandtears said:


> This is a joke right. Boston has THE friendiest riders I have encountered anywhere.


Boston is a giant college town with a frat boy/BRO attitude. At least how I envision it.

Baltimore and the immediate surrounding area is probably the friendliest place I have encountered.


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## mouthbreathr (Dec 7, 2010)

roxnroots said:


> As someone born in the Garden State and now live only 10 miles into PA now, I gotta say be careful making fun of N.J..  As home to the Boss, high taxes, the Pine Barrens, A.C. the "real" Jersey Shore,"strategically aggressive" driving on the Parkway and NJTP, Martha Stewart, the Sopranos, traffic circles, the Housewives, Edison's laboratory, the country's most disputed bear hunt, Princeton, and the big guy himself Governor Chris Christie, N.J.'s not perfect but it doesn't have to be. Ya gotta love it warts and all - no poser state here.


Here here! Jersey ****ing pride


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## goingblankagain (Jun 22, 2009)

mouthbreathr said:


> Boston is a giant college town with a frat boy/BRO attitude. At least how I envision it.
> 
> Baltimore and the immediate surrounding area is probably the friendliest place I have encountered.


Boston is nothing, people are as nice or as idiotic as anywhere in the world...but I just finished watching The Wire so I am full of Bodymore, Murdaland stereotypes :smilewinkgrin:


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## Pimpride (Nov 14, 2005)

Who cares about Boston.... Except when Brady, Shaq and KG are concerned...

I'd like to ride the Holy Land. Seems like a hostile and bike unfriendly place, but I think when you make your way out into the frontier you'd find it's pretty sparce.

Here's a tour around the Sea of Galilee --->


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

goingblankagain said:


> but I just finished watching The Wire so I am full of Bodymore, Murdaland stereotypes :smilewinkgrin:


I guess you should watch "Gone baby, gone", or "Mystic River" to get the Boston stereotype down.

Being from WV, I'm all about the stereotypes. Here, it's exactly like it is in the "Wrong turn" movies. :thumbsup:


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## brassnipples (Feb 26, 2006)

mouthbreathr said:


> Kettle moraine aint bad


If you haven't been there in a while, Kettles has gone from not bat to quite good over the last few years.


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## skullcap (Nov 4, 2010)

Pimpride said:


> I'd like to ride the Holy Land. Seems like a hostile and bike unfriendly place, but I think when you make your way out into the frontier you'd find it's pretty space.
> 
> Here's a tour around the Sea of Galilee --->


So, what's the linear distance of that trail? Cool map, BTW.


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## idbrian (May 10, 2006)

skullcap said:


> So, what's the linear distance of that trail? Cool map, BTW.


I tried to find more info on it too. Everything i could find says that this is a plan in progress and there will be eighty miles. Pretty cool to see anywhere paying millions of dollars to build MTB singletrack.

Couldn't find any good pictures of the trails though. Which was what i was looking for.


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## skullcap (Nov 4, 2010)

Thanks, I see now (that I actually look) that the distance is listed at the bottom of the map. Duh. I was so mesmerized by all the cool details on the map itself I didn't notice that.

50 miles of intermediate and 25 miles of advanced sounds like a nice spin. They'll be lucky to have that once it's completed.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

skullcap said:


> 50 miles of intermediate and 25 miles of advanced sounds like a nice spin. They'll be lucky to have that once it's completed.


When I'm in Galilee, I ride _*on *_the lake. "Can't be done," you say? Oh ye of little faith.


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## skullcap (Nov 4, 2010)

s0ckeyeus said:


> When I'm in Galilee, I ride _*on *_the lake. "Can't be done," you say? Oh ye of little faith.


 When I first saw the map I thought that too! :thumbsup:


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## B-Mac (Oct 2, 2008)

Cleveland/Cuyahoga County Ohio is pretty bad, but is improving thanks mostly to the efforts of CAMBA. Ray Petros should get some props too for starting Ray's, which is officially the best thing about the cleveland bike scene. 

The local MTB community is really friendly, but small. Unfortunately, most rides involve driving somewhere at least an hour away. 

We actually have a small freeride community developing and some freeride sites are popping up. 

Suppose it could be worse. The entire state of florida comes to mind.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

B-Mac said:


> Cleveland/Cuyahoga County Ohio is pretty bad


I was there in 1996, going to Lincoln Electric's welding school. Brought my bike too. Figured I'd kill the extra time I had without wife and child, by riding myself silly.

Yep, no riding in Metroparks, hmmm, okay...... The one gem I found, albeit a small one, was the Atchison property, about 45 minutes east of Cleveland on 90.

Is it still there, and are they doing anything with it?

On my end? Rochester NY is about as MTB unhappy a place as you can find. The Monroe County Parks system is full of phenomenal parks, all of which are off limits.

This is really sad, considering that it's mostly for horses that this is the case, even though there are many parks, or areas, where horses can't or don't, go. We also are not doing great financially, so the parks have lost a ton of funding. Most of the work that happens it now volunteer. Great, so I can go and clear trail, shovel mulch into run off created ditches, pick up trash, etc, but I can't ride my bike in it? Nice.

There was a time when you could swim at the bathing beach in Mendon Ponds. Now, with no lifeguard,that doesn't happen. Without the people, Canada geese have taken it over, and the sandy beach is now, just a sh*t covered garbage pit. No one uses the parks too much any more (family wise) due to things like this, yet I can't ride there, my neighbors 5 year old can't ride his 16" with training wheels on the trail around the pond.

We have a dynamic, and active cycling community here, it's not that we aren't biker friendly, just not to MTB.

The closest thing we have to a riding area, is a park created by a township, just over the line from Monroe County. And shockingly, it's well attended, everyone behaves, and is cleaner, better maintained and managed than any of our county parks.

Nice.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Scott O said:


> Yes, talking about mtb in Boston. In addition to what you point out above, there are also naked dudes jogging through the woods all year long and the cops do nothing about it.


Should I not be doing that? Sorry,

I just figured when in Rome....


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## Sarguy (Sep 25, 2010)

jollybeggar said:


> Oregon sucks! If your from California you don't want to come here. Only 500 miles of singletrack in Lane county alone, no good events unless you count MBO, Fat55, Cascade Cream Puff. Riding old growth forest, tight switchy singletrack, high Cascades, beautiful rivers trails, gets old after awhile. Forget Post canyon, Fall Creek, Hood River, the MRT, the NUT, Phils trails, OROR, it's all the same ol same ol, endless sweet single track. nothing to see here folks.


Okay dokie, I'll stay away from Oregon. 

On a more serious note: Diego Garcia... worst place if you can get a bike there.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

Pimpride said:


> Who cares about Boston.... Except when Brady, Shaq and KG are concerned...


And John Lester, Clay Buchholz, Carl Crawford, Adrien Gonzolez, David Ortiz, Dustin Pedroia, and Youk. Title Town, USA. :thumbsup:


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## mudforlunch (Aug 9, 2004)

goingblankagain said:


> Boston is nothing, people are as nice or as idiotic as anywhere in the world...but I just finished watching The Wire so I am full of Bodymore, Murdaland stereotypes :smilewinkgrin:


I live smack in the middle of Baltimore, and have awesome trails less than 15 min. from here that I ride pretty much every other day. Baltimore is a great city actually, dont buy or sell drugs and dont go running around Liberty Heights or Edmonson Ave. at 2am and you'll be fine.


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## fat guy (Feb 19, 2005)

Allegheny National Forest in PA, all the singletrack is off limits except for a couple dinky little stretches, and they won't let volunteers improve those! Hikers who can't share trails shouldn't be allowed on public land!


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## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

abegold said:


> Russia would be one of the first places I would love to ride, on the Kamchatka Peninsula, extreme eastern Russia. One of the most active volcanic regions on earth with lots of wildlife it might be mountain bike heaven in summer.
> Also read about a MTB race around Lake Baikal that fascinates me as my father was a prisoner of war there in WW2. Do they allow bikes on the Trans Siberian railroad?
> Mongolia also interest me but more as an investor in the rapidly growing mining industry than as a place to ride, but thats cause I know nothing about what I would want to ride, except a lush river valley that borders China.


 Jeez Abe, your dad was a POW in Russia? How did THAT happen??? Mongolia is a beautiful place, and one of the last great wilderness destinations in the world. I hope you are joking when you say you want to invest in the mining operations there, they are destroying the country. You can drive out of Ulaan Batar and outside the city limits you are directly in the Steppes, with hardly a fence to block your way. Truly epic riding there.

By the way, worst place in the world to ride? Tucson AZ. Snakes, scorpions, sharp rocks, prickly cactus, oooh errr! No fun! Stay well away!


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## Mtn-Rider (May 21, 2010)

rockerc said:


> By the way, worst place in the world to ride? Tucson AZ. Snakes, scorpions, sharp rocks, prickly cactus, oooh errr! No fun! Stay well away!


That's actually the fun stuff, especially if you add enough catclaw weeds to make the ride a bloody one. This stuff to stay away from has signs like these:


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## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

Mtn-Rider said:


> That's actually the fun stuff, especially if you add enough catclaw weeds to make the ride a bloody one. This stuff to stay away from has signs like these:


Tongue firmly in my cheek here... I LOVE riding Tucson, some of the best trails I have EVER ridden... Thankfully I have discovered full armor to stop the rapid onward progression of the scar tissue. I value my skin...


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## AladdinP (Sep 25, 2010)

fat guy said:


> Allegheny National Forest in PA, all the singletrack is off limits except for a couple dinky little stretches, and they won't let volunteers improve those! Hikers who can't share trails shouldn't be allowed on public land!


...crap. Allegheny College is a pretty good possibility for me, I'd hate to not be able to ride for four years. Guess I'll have to keep my fingers crossed about getting into Penn State.


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## lwmyers (Apr 19, 2005)

One of, if not the hardest/worst places to be a mountain biker is central Kansas. 

First off, there are no mountains...or even hills for that matter.

Nearly all the land in the state is privately owned, and getting a local community interested in developing a trails system is like pulling teeth.

There are a handfull of trails in the central part of the state, but you can expect a 2-5 hr drive to get from one to another...and the few that are out there tend to be so sandy their not even fun.

Luckily Colorado isn't that far away, and moving to Chaffee County (Salida, Buena Vista, Monarch), was the best decision this flatland biker ever made!


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## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

hurtssogood said:


> Reno, NV. Not horrible, I guess, just a huge letdown. Sure, Tahoe is close, and there are some trails right out of town, but Reno should be off the hook. It's surrounded by mountains, and can be ridden most of the year. Really, that goes for the whole state of Nevada. There are some good rides to be found, but it's the most mountainous state in the country, and almost the least populated. There should be kick-ass singletrack everywhere. I guess living in Breckenridge and Tahoe have spoiled me a bit.


I know this is kinda a moot point, as my memory serves me only to remember that I80 and 52(?) are the only paved roads going out of Reno, but how's the road riding, if there's no good mtb'ing? If there is any road riding, for that matter?


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## osmarandsara (Jun 26, 2006)

A recent article about the status of mountain biking in the city of Los Angeles:

Mountain bikers are still unwelcome on many L.A. trails

By Martha Groves, Los Angeles Times

January 2, 2011

Not long after mountain bikers spun onto the scene in California in the early 1980s, dustups erupted with hikers and equestrians who found dodging hell-bent-for-leather cyclists on narrow trails unpleasant and at times dangerous.

Heeding those complaints, the city of Los Angeles prohibited bicycling of any kind on trails designated for hikers and equestrians. Despite mountain bikers' efforts over the years to win access to dirt trails in Griffith Park and other open spaces, the ban has remained in effect - except for Mandeville Canyon Park, where cyclists do share trails.

Other major cities such as Philadelphia, New York and Phoenix have figured out how to let hikers, equestrians and cyclists coexist on the dirt. But Los Angeles officials and planners have all but sidestepped action on the issue in a comprehensive update of the city's 2010 bicycle plan that was approved in December by the Planning Commission.

The update will be reviewed by Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa's office before City Council consideration early this year. It calls on the city's Department of Recreation and Parks to study best practices in other locales and collect data. That marks some backpedaling from earlier bicycle plans that recommended pilot programs for mountain bikes on city trails. No such programs were implemented.

"There is nothing in the new proposed bicycle plan that would expand mountain bikes' usage on city parkland or on mountain trails," said Ken Bernstein of the Department of City Planning.

Bernstein, a principal planner, said the mountain biking debate remains a tiny piece of the overall bicycle strategy, which calls for new bikeway networks encompassing more than 1,680 miles, a jump from the current 339 miles. The plan also commits the city to implementing 200 miles of bicycle facilities every five years.

"We think the bigger story is the fact that the Planning Commission adopted a very far-reaching and, we think, state-of-the-art new bicycle plan for the city that has tremendous support," he said. "Overall, the plan makes very bold statements &#8230; including the goal of making every street in Los Angeles a safe place to ride a bike."

The unwillingness of many hikers and equestrians to budge on the bike issue reflects animosity born of anecdotal reports of trail encounters that have injured hikers and horses. In 2005, a horse trying to dodge three mountain bikers on a Santa Barbara trail fell down a canyon, broke its back and was euthanized. In September 2009, a 74-year-old hiker on the Betty B. Dearing trail in Fryman Canyon reported that a speeding mountain biker clipped her on the shoulder and sent her sprawling on the gravelly path.

"It's been a more serious issue in California than elsewhere," said Stuart Macdonald, editor of American Trails magazine and its website. "People take more extreme positions, and they seem to not have this kind of culture of 'People have a right to be there, and we need to figure out how to solve the problem.'"

In the months before city planners finished the draft bicycle plan, a consultant tried unsuccessfully to find middle ground between equestrian and mountain bike representatives.

Many hikers and equestrians assert that mountain biking poses two main problems: danger to cyclists and others on the trail and the potential for trail damage.

"My feeling as a member of the Griffith J. Griffith Trust [which distributes money for Griffith Park improvements] is that mountain bikes do not mix on the trail with hikers, horse people and runners," said Clare Darden, the hiker who was knocked down on the Dearing trail. "In parks in urban settings where people are on foot or on a horse and somebody comes speeding down a trail and cannot stop on a dime, you're at risk of serious injury."

As for trail health, Joe Young, a civil engineer and hiker on the executive committee of the Sierra Club's Angeles chapter, contended that "trails in Griffith Park could be obliterated by a relative handful of mountain bikers."

Cyclists have found research to bolster their side.

Jim Hasenauer, a Cal State Northridge professor who volunteers for the International Mountain Bicycling Assn., said equestrians fear that cyclists will have "negative impact on animals, rip up trails, kill native plants &#8230; but that's not what the research says." The association cites data showing that cyclists cause about as much damage as hikers and less than horses.

Hasenauer said cycling groups were disappointed that pilot programs were excluded from the updated plan but took heart that the city "still has to do the studies and start dealing with some fact-based decision-making."

Given the Department of Recreation and Parks' staunch opposition to allowing mountain bikes on city trails, it remains to be seen when or whether it will take up the cause of researching best practices.

Claire Bowin of the city's Planning Department said parks officials should start the research as soon as they have "the will and funding."

"I feel today in our society we have to find common ground across a wide variety of people," said Bowin, a road cyclist. "Something this plan has tried to embrace is how to accommodate a range of cyclists. Mountain bikes are part of that family of cyclists."

[email protected]

Copyright © 2010, Los Angeles Times


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