# Homemade chainrings and sprockets



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Hello everyone.

I just bought 3.75mm carbon fiber sheet, 2mm aluminum sheet and I should get 3mm titanium sheet soon.

I have drawn these in SolidWorks 2008.

I just cut out everything in 3 mm steel and looking if there´s some errors, it was none.

I cut out the inner ring in Carbon-Al but it doesn´t turn out good because of delaminating when I use a Abrasive Water jet machine, any tips, I have no CNC mill here.

Metals is no problem but Carbon and similar composites will delaminate..

But keep this thread alive so I can post my progress.
I just drawn a own Ti cassette and will try it in steel first and see if it´s doable with a good weight saving.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I will only comment, the first chainring in 3mm Domex is on my road/commuter bike with compact 94mm bolt circle, does work OK.
No fancy shiting ramps and like here.


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## dmcgoy (Apr 16, 2006)

Cool, do you have any photos of the completed projects?


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

I will be following this thread. Very impressed with the drawings so far. Allow me to offer my services as a "test pilot."


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## ginsu2k (Jul 28, 2006)

You should be running all these designs in CosmosXpress and getting some FEA results on deflection. It looks like some of your designs are more cosmetic than functional, especially the first chainring, which has no bridges to transfer the load between the mounts. 

Also, that 'bashguard' would be hell to machine, and would not stand up well in fatigue. Remember, you want to avoid making extra holes in a part, especially if they are not circular or radiused. Why don't you go for something a bit simpler, you don't need all that complexity.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Ginsu2K, yes my design is only for my pure free time and because it´s fun to make these drawings.
That´s NOT a bashgurd that´s pictured there, it´s a new inner section of Carbon-Al chainrings because of delaminationg in the carbon composite when cutting in a AWJ.

I will try them on my trainer and first sitting and powering on, then more upright and in a more controlled envronment than on the road with other cars.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Machine time is no problem when I run a water jet machine, all curves is the same not less than 1mm between lines because the beam is 1mm and at 4000 bar, it will cut anything, even titanium and tungsten.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Trying a little more yesterday and I just made a cassette with little effort.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

I think that inner section should be alu, not titanium. titanium just for teeth (more wear resistant)

where did you buy the carbon fiber sheet?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

STS, you may have a point here.

I will try a little more combinations before I make a final production run for my own use.

Never abandon 5 bolt compact chainrings!


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## Cranked (Jun 1, 2006)

Over on the Fair Wheel bike forum the owner of Fyber Lyte(think his name is Stephan) hangs out and post a good bit. I think he would be the most likely to have advise for you on the delamination topic. I'de throw it out to those guys, and Madcow is pretty smart too. Really nice stuff your working on, I'll be watching with interest.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Cranked: I just forgot FibreLyte!
I will ask him some Q if he will respond..


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## Jkuo (Feb 7, 2007)

What type of waterjet are you running? I would think that a waterjet would be able to cut carbon without delamination. I used to own a business and we made cosmetic parts for cars such as interior trim kits. We used a waterjet exclusively. Most products were aluminum, but we had a few carbon parts. But maybe the reason we had no delamination was because the carbon material we used was for looks only and very thin. Since our parts were rather delicate, we would turn down the speed, run a much finer abrasive, and increase the pressure.

If the carbon is delaminating under a waterjet, it might delaminate with a CNC as well.



Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Ginsu2K, yes my design is only for my pure free time and because it´s fun to make these drawings.
> That´s NOT a bashgurd that´s pictured there, it´s a new inner section of Carbon-Al chainrings because of delaminationg in the carbon composite when cutting in a AWJ.
> 
> I will try them on my trainer and first sitting and powering on, then more upright and in a more controlled envronment than on the road with other cars.


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

If you're interested in cutting carbon with a waterjet, a secret trick is to sandwich it in between layers of aluminum and bolt that whole shebang together before running it.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Very good tips folks! 
I will give it some tries before I decide to use a company like Fibre-Lyte to make my prototypes.

Sandwiching is the way to make this carbon stuff I think.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

It would seem to me that "water jet" is the wrong tool for cutting carbon fiber sheet when metal cutting tools do it so easily?

Good luck though :thumbsup:


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Slobberdoggy, I wish I could choose a CNC mill but there´s no one on my job only a €130.000 abrasive water jet machine which I are familiar with.

I talked little with Fibre-Lyte and he said a mill or alathe is the best way to make these things.

I will give it some tries before I change my mind.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Hi everyone, here is my Carbon-Al chainring in 44T.

The weight is below 50 gr for this chainring but durability is a good question I will find out soon.

I can do the toothed outer ring in Ti and getting a cool chainring that WILL last.

I will do a similar in 30 or 29T config and see how far I can push this design.

Enjoy!


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## Some Guy (Mar 27, 2005)

Those teeth look a lot sharper than you generally get. To be honest they look like a normal chainring with a stack of wear. Curious to see how that tooth profile holds up under use.


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## ChrisJ (Aug 15, 2005)

Don't unclip by accident Ouch.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

hi mattias 

do you remeber me ? 

i ship you some XTR items , but not remember what ...

however good job

need a tester to your product ? here i am

i will pay you to test these chainring


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Hi Eliflap, I remember you.
I got one good XTR lower cage from you.

I will find out IF these chainrings are good enough for MTB use.

Durability is very hard to tell because it depends on many factors.
I don´t like very muddy rides and does not shift under load.

I will get harder aluminium sheets but it´s hard because american ebayers refuse to ship overseas, if any of you want to help me with shipping, PM me.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

if you want , i will be your first buyer ... ok i send you a PM


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## Ultra Magnus (Jan 13, 2004)

Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm far less than impressed. Do you think if it's so easy for anyone with sw08 to model up some chainrings and cassettes we'd be seeing a lot more people doing it? Have you looked at a real cassette or chainring? The teeth aren't all the same size or thickness, they have shift ramps, pins, etc... Your tooth profile doesn't even look right, but maybe they are...

BM


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

bmadau said:


> Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm far less than impressed. Do you think if it's so easy for anyone with sw08 to model up some chainrings and cassettes we'd be seeing a lot more people doing it? Have you looked at a real cassette or chainring? The teeth aren't all the same size or thickness, they have shift ramps, pins, etc... Your tooth profile doesn't even look right, but maybe they are...
> 
> BM


Hello, I have around five or six bikes with various weightweenie parts on it so i´ve seen a cassette or two.
Riding MTB´s from 1993 to present date so I´m not a beginner here.

I just made quick drawings and have NO intentions to compete against big companies about durability, shifting performance and so on.

I just make these in my spare time and purely for fun.
No profit interest here, want to see if I can do that.
I renovated a Porsche 911 from ground up and sold it, it still works, next step was a 185 hp 1000 cc 2 stroke sled engine and it still runs.

Now it´s the MTB and roadies..

After all, I´m only a metal worker, a simple one who learned from my father.


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

There you have it. Making parts as a hobby and for enjoyment rather than trying to get rich from it. Good luck with your parts!


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I just mounted this chainring on my winter smasher, the teeth profile is right but a little tall, I just forgot to make them more rounder.

A simple asphalt test told me two things:
The teeth profile is OK but could be better.
Out of saddle power is OK.

No failure here, but a concern is extreme big and big , will it rip the teeths off the chainring?
Probably but it´s not meant to be a such gear combination.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I will give a 29T chainring a try in steel and see if it holds up.

My 50T domex steel commuter ring is still in same shape as left the machine.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Here is a test of my new 27T cassette.
I will look at important places like teeth profile and interface to cassette if it fits and make more details.

Enjoy!

Unfinished in 2mm SS and took only 2 mins to cut.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

sorry no reply yet form USA


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

The interface on cassette is 1mm too tight, fixing that on next prototype but looking at teeth shifting ramps first (missing teeths) SRAM RED has 2 missing teeths in each ramp.


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## Coldass (Nov 23, 2005)

MattiasH. You are a star. I am loving watching your designs and prototypes take shape and form. Thank you for posting your ideas and parts. It is what the soul of mountain biking is all about.

CA.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I´m in the drawing stage of a 9 sp 30-12 cassette which only weigh about 160 gr, but will remain tightlipped until I release a ready cassette.

A another mounting system who including TIG welding here.

No use of CNC machine mill or lathe.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*11-30*



Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> I´m in the drawing stage of a 9 sp 30-12 cassette which only weigh about 160 gr, but will remain tightlipped until I release a ready cassette.
> 
> A another mounting system who including TIG welding here.
> 
> No use of CNC machine mill or lathe.


really nice designs...compliments!
BUT you can already get 11-30 at 161g

and there is already 29t chainrings at 19g. i really doubt you can shave 3g without hurting durability on that already tiny aluminium ring.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Nino: thanks, but my point is 16 gr with titanium as material not aluminum.

With reservation of SolidWorks 2008 SP3.1 inaccurate material property calculation.



I think it´s fun to make things, if it´s so light it´s a bonus really.

How many can say: I drawn and made them by meself with a TIG welder and a water jet machine?

It´s really the point here.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

By the way I made my own tool for XTR M950, 952 BB which is far much better precision I´ve seen.

I will make my own tools, slowly but it´s been more and more.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Nino: thanks, but my point is 16 gr with titanium as material not aluminum.
> 
> With reservation of SolidWorks 2008 SP3.1 inaccurate material property calculation.


titanium is TWICE the weight of aluminium so i really doubt your calculations unless you make it silly thin.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

You can see the picture some posts above.

As i said before, we will see when I obtain 6al4v ti in 2mm and cut them and test them.

I just made 47 gr chainring in 44t when my SW said 60 gr.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

sorry no replies from USA via mail , maybe holiays ...


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

eliflap said:


> sorry no replies from USA via mail , maybe holiays ...


Hope so, I need help with shipping as you know


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Nino: I just made a quick cut in the water jet machine with 2mm stainless steel.
It weighed 26.8 grams.

Solidworks says the same part weigh 27.1 gram.
0.3 gram difference is not much to complain about so 16gr in 6al4v ti IS possible.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I just made one chainring with 2.2mm 6Al 6V 2.5Sn titanium at 2.2mm thickness.
From the beginning I drawn on 2mm as base so I was forced to lighten it a little more and make it look more like it was ME who did the chainring.

2mm is not silly thin when you think about the Sugino CSS chainrings is made of stamped 2mm aluminium.

Real world field testing soon, I think it should not be a problem.
3 times stronger than my stainless steel chainring who works perfectly good.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Holy moly, that's the chainring equivalent of a g-string bikini and pasties!


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I was in the forest earlier today with my Ti 29t, changed from a 7075-T6 tuned coda 32to to a 29t.
Rolled to a logging road and cranked all way up in various speeds.

Not even a bit of chansuck or deformed teeth.
It appears be a sturdy piece of homebrew engineering.

Field test: PASSED!


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## vi3dr0 (Jul 14, 2007)

It looks like pure nothing. So f******* sexy!


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## Broseph (Nov 9, 2006)

let us know when you plan to sell these:thumbsup:


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Look here: http://luminasweden.com/mattias/ep/epmain.html


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

so when you send to me a 44 and a 29 ?

i coming old .... time is running ... age is growing up....

no time to waste ... it's time to a swden helps an italian ....

come on, Matthias


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Look here: http://luminasweden.com/mattias/ep/epmain.html


link doesn't work


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## vi3dr0 (Jul 14, 2007)

eliflap said:


> link doesn't work


Sure it does.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

ok now works


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

*on board*

here is the 29T Titanium on my scalpel

tested 1 hous under rain .

no shifting problem

no fatigue problem

no flession problem


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

matthias done a good work ....

no issues....


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Thank you Eliflap, it feels good to me to know it works for another one than me.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> I just made one chainring with 2.2mm 6Al 6V 2.5Sn titanium at 2.2mm thickness.
> From the beginning I drawn on 2mm as base so I was forced to lighten it a little more and make it look more like it was ME who did the chainring.
> 
> 2mm is not silly thin when you think about the Sugino CSS chainrings is made of stamped 2mm aluminium.
> ...


it is this one on my bike


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

i received many negative comments ... except 2/3 guys 

at first sight everyone tells TOO SKINNY , FALLS AFTER 1 KM 

... however , i do not many km today but under rain and lot of mud and wet sand ...


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## olzone (May 20, 2008)

eliflap, may i ask what gps/computer you are using on your scalpel? and btw Mattias really cool work there! (klart impad!)


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## raceer2 (Jul 21, 2007)

gps is a garmin edge ...which model (305, 605, 705), hard to tell


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*corrct...*



raceer2 said:


> gps is a garmin edge ...which model (305, 605, 705), hard to tell


looks like the Garmin Edge 305 which i have myself. a great tool !


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## olzone (May 20, 2008)

Thaks  
I thought that was the model.. have been looking a bit at the edge 305 myself. Perhaps I should get it


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

olzone said:


> eliflap, may i ask what gps/computer you are using on your scalpel? and btw Mattias really cool work there! (klart impad!)


i have EDGE 705 .

i already had forerunner 201 , edge 205 , forerunner 205...

but edge 705 is another planet ....

look on ebay ..i'm selling one , new


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

All new design 44T, I haven´t received my sheet of titanium yet.
So it became in 2.0mm stainless steel instead.

86 grams in 2.0mm SS, should be sub 50 grams in 1.8mm 6al4v.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

good grief you're almost making stainless steel lace doilies...


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## ryball (May 14, 2007)

holy baby jebsus that thing is like a g-string for your cranks.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

ryball said:


> holy baby jebsus that thing is like a g-string for your cranks.


Should I take it positively? :eekster:


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## ryball (May 14, 2007)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Should I take it positively? :eekster:


Yes, but only if your cranks are girls. :thumbsup:


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

What about these?


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## NoValidTitle (Apr 27, 2008)

That 44t is insane!! I hope it holds. Great job.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

ah ah ... finally see as real work... 

good .. but on a bike maybe is a strange design ...


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I will mount it on my Zaskar tonight and take a picture.
So you allcan say if it´s pretty or ugly.

I don´t care so much when it´s light.

I´ve seen uglier rings, like FSA aerodynamic.


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## NoValidTitle (Apr 27, 2008)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> I will mount it on my Zaskar tonight and take a picture.
> So you allcan say if it´s pretty or ugly.
> 
> I don´t care so much when it´s light.
> ...


I think it looks awesome.


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

any plans for 4-bolt 32t SS rings?i want one. you know you could get all of boone's business now that they are slackers.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Actually, I can do anything as long that´s a sheet because I´m a operator for a water jet cutting machine and unlimited access of stainless steel.

Titanium is harder to get because skyhigh prices.

Boone is a upper class product I think, very beautiful rings but they are busy.


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Actually, I can do anything as long that´s a sheet because I´m a operator for a water jet cutting machine and unlimited access of stainless steel.
> 
> Titanium is harder to get because skyhigh prices.
> 
> Boone is a upper class product I think, very beautiful rings but they are busy.


so what would you charge for a steel SS ring,4-bolt 32t. just ball park is fine.


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## icemonkey (Mar 14, 2008)

You do beautiful work! Art, function and flair. You have inspired me. Thank you


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

Awesome design, man. Can't wait to see pics.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Here is the 44T mounted on my 1995 Zaskar with quite tuned drivetrain.

Cranks are XTR M950 tuned to 411gr.
Cassette DA 7700 12-27
RD XTR M960 tuned to 160 gr.
FD DA tuned to below 80 gr.
Chain is CN7701.

Numbers taken from my memory.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

the minimal design of 29 made the difference with the 44...

44 so seems to be too rich of little holes ... it seems heavier ( in design i mean not in weight ) than other rings


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*design...*



Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Here is the 44T mounted on my 1995 Zaskar with quite tuned drivetrain.
> 
> Cranks are XTR M950 tuned to 411gr.
> Cassette DA 7700 12-27
> ...


i personally don't like all those tiny holes...looks not so good for my taste. is it stiffer this way or why such a design?

i would prefer a meatier part just behind the teeth rather than the swiss-cheese look you have now. otherwise it's real cool what you are doing! keep up the good work. if you ever do a 42 with no swiss-cheese design keep me updated...


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

eliflap said:


> the minimal design of 29 made the difference with the 44...
> 
> 44 so seems to be too rich of little holes ... it seems heavier ( in design i mean not in weight ) than other rings


Eli, I think the same but is it light so is it good enough for me.
But a little style is always good, the minimalist design like 29T does probably not work on a big ring like 44T, there´s longer distance from fixing points.

But I will try that today and see how well it holds up, can you tell me how thick your spacers are so I can do some new in aluminum.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

nino said:


> i personally don't like all those tiny holes...looks not so good for my taste. is it stiffer this way or why such a design?
> 
> i would prefer a meatier part just behind the teeth rather than the swiss-cheese look you have now. otherwise it's real cool what you are doing! keep up the good work. if you ever do a 42 with no swiss-cheese design keep me updated...


The problem is often a stiffness/design/weight balance, I wanted a unique looking ring, not heavy, not too flexy.

I can make some other designs to satisfy the big masses here 

But priority 1 is weight, 2 is stiffness.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Eli, I think the same but is it light so is it good enough for me.
> But a little style is always good, the minimalist design like 29T does probably not work on a big ring like 44T, there´s longer distance from fixing points.
> 
> But I will try that today and see how well it holds up, can you tell me how thick your spacers are so I can do some new in aluminum.


1 mm


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

however on your bike looks good ...

all polished material is better with these desing


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Finally a failure!
Interesting to see where it gave up.
I will do a redesign without too much weight penalty.

How I did manage to crush it?

Easy as pie, do your worst route with a big sandy hill and stay in bigring and yank it with all you have.
Pang, your knee on the left XTR RF control, sweet feeling.

I did run home with the granny ring.

Total: 3 km


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

As any scientist would say, negative results are results too. Thanks for sharing the good and the bad.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

i broke 29 T ....

in 24h solo race , after 6 hours a bolt , 1 of 5 of chairings, was missed for untighting ...

a pedal force in same moment borke 29T ring and ... the crank spider , 1 hole completely , and the opposite is cracked...

i did picture ...

but i'm very tired now ...

track , i did 18 times before broke, was a speed track in lake shore , but had a 600mt long climb ...

i did with 29t and 32 ... but i always thought in that situation " why i not have 22T ? " at every pedal shot...


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

here is pic


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*nice...*



eliflap said:


> here is pic


good to see that the tuned, 53g - 42t Sugino has held up fine


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

i was on 29T when happened


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

other pic


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

So a chainring bolt fell off, and then the force crushed the chainring?

Did I understand right?

However, how can I help you?


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Is that the opposite side that cracked?


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

rockyuphill said:


> Is that the opposite side that cracked?


yes


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> So a chainring bolt fell off, and then the force crushed the chainring?
> 
> Did I understand right?
> 
> However, how can I help you?


yes , this is what i felt ...

help? only one way : doing another 29T , Matthias ... :thumbsup:


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

That sort of shatter fracture on the second of the spider crank arms is a bit odd, that is more common with cast aluminium than forged or CNC'd aluminium. What brand of cranks are those?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

rockyuphill, theseare cannondale hollowgram cranks, pretty high buck crankset.


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## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> ...big sandy hill and stay in bigring and yank it with all you have.


Well, don't feel too bad. It's pretty obvious that chain ring would be for someone with an even, "round" pedalling style. Not for "yanking on it with all you have"!


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Wheelspeed: I want to test them until they break and back to drawing board, I´m not so good it was after all only a prototype in stainless steel, would have hold up in titanium but with questionable longevity.

Finally, I got my sheet of titanium!!


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## ginsu2k (Jul 28, 2006)

I don't know why you think titanium posses superior strength compared to stainless steel. That is certainly not true. In fact, you would have to buy some of the strongest titanum (6al-4v) to even come close to average stainless. 


6al- 4v Titanium

Tensile Strength, Ultimate	1035 MPa	
Tensile Strength, Yield	980 MPa	
Elongation at Break	12.0 %	

AISI 4340 Oil quenched

Tensile Strength, Ultimate	1255 MPa	
Tensile Strength, Yield	1165 MPa	
Elongation at Break	13.7 %	


Not only are both the Yield and UTS higher for 4340, but the elongation is higher as well. With your swiss cheese chainrings you should definitely be concerned with fatigue life. 

As I've mentioned previously, you should be running both static and fatigue stress analysis with COSMOSWorks (it's part of Solidworks). They are very easy to do and Solidworks comes with built in tutorials demonstrating their use. Besides the fact that your chainrings probably possess inferior stiffness figures compared to off-the-shelf items, they obviously have unacceptable fatigue limits. 

I hope you're realizing that engineering a proper lightweight part is much more complicated than making a bunch of holes in it. I do commend your honesty by showing us pictures of the failure.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Ginsu2k, I used EN 1.4301 Outokumpu Stainless steel not something you chosen.

Then Eliflap got 6al6v 2.5sn titanium which is stronger than you mentioned above.
Do a comparison in www.matweb.com so you can see.

Ultimately I want Aermet 300 but hard to get.

Give me a good tutorial in cosmosworks and I´ll do that, way too much science in there for me.
I´m only a simple metalworker as I said before.

If you can simulate reliably for me so I can send you IGES files as well.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

As a byline, I want only Grade 5 (6al4v titanium) or better as chainring because their properties as you already known.

Stainless steel is only something I have a lot of here so I use them as prototypes.

COSMOSworks is good, have tried that but didn´t give me acceptable results..
So because no use of that here.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Funnily enough, many peoples mailed and PMed me about custom chainrings and price quotations.
I answered them all in diplomatic manner.

Now I showed my first failure, they all disappeared..

I maybe should do my prototype testing behind locked doors and have a higher price tag?


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

*HEY GUYS*

my rings not fault ...

i lost a bolt

THEN i broke 29 T and chain broken spider ...

other rings resist in a climb with only 4 bolts ??? i think no....

so i still believe in Matthias work

ordered again a 29 T


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Funnily enough, many peoples mailed and PMed me about custom chainrings and price quotations.
> I answered them all in diplomatic manner.
> 
> Now I showed my first failure, they all disappeared..
> ...


On the one hand, good on ya for having the cajones to post the good and bad results. On the other side of the coin, when you start making it a business by accepting money for product you also end up with the liabilities. That big ring collapse has the potential to have been a nasty ankle slicer, so you might actually want to consult a lawyer to find out what your liability is when you accept money for product, there may be some hidden gotcha's in your local consumer protection laws that give the buyers literal or implied warranty of product fitness.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

First of all, machine time and material is NOT free, especially not titanium.

Even if I giving out custom chainrings for free, I have liability problems when someone hurt yourself when a ring fails.

So there´s not a problem with a price tag really.

I´m doing with open cards here, everyone is welcome to applaud and critize my home made products.

I said home made, yes it´s all homemade in my free time and only for meself, I felt I would help fellow mtbers hwn they want my stuff, no meaning of mass production, it means I must order titanium sheets, my last one costed me €220 for a sheet of 11x26 inch.
Machine time €80 per hour incl programming and setup.

You can do the math, it´s not profitable, but I´m a friendly guy who want to help everyone.

No aim to anyone of you here in MTBR.


BTW, I will NOT end my testing, it does not end here, but hard to get free time when I have two small kids and sunny weather outside.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

there not a partnership buyer-seller betwenn Matthias and me 

only a refound for materials i am not able to find.

so keep on in this way , Matthias


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Eliflap: I will continue my testing until I find a good balance between lightweight, durability and wear.

You all know there´s prototypes, that´s why I have a site labeled Experimental Prototypes.

Then I will make it official and pay for classified ads and everything other.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

I was just raising the issue since all of those PM inquiries might not be from people who have the same sense of adventure for trying out leading edge ideas. This is much more like paying someone back for helping out with an oil change or renovation work around the house, but all it takes is for someone with more lawyers than brains and you could have troubles. 

It is likely better that you stop hearing from people who might not be willing to try the rings out with some risk of failure, as they might have a lawyer as a brother-in-law.  It's like the difference between test pilots and airline passengers, the airline passengers assume there is no risk, yet they are both at 10,000m elevation if something breaks. :eekster:


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Rockyuphill, you hit the bullseye with this comment.

Product liability is nothing new for me, I´ve made and make still racing parts for older Porsche 911.

So, let us leave this aspect and concentrate on the new designs, I have a new design but must have time on water jet machine to cut in SS.

I can show a picture later when I find my USB memory stick hehe..


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Here is the new design and I even played little with cosmosworks, can anyone tell me how big force we are talking about?

I counted in with 300N force for the 3/4 of chainring and I got a 3.2 in safety factor.


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

How about cropping and re-sizing that picture so we don't have to scroll sideways to read every post.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*hmm...*



Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Here is the new design and I even played little with cosmosworks, can anyone tell me how big force we are talking about?
> 
> I counted in with 300N force for the 3/4 of chainring and I got a 3.2 in safety factor.


this design still looks too swiss cheesy for my taste. why not just make it pure and simple?
i doubt that your thin, hollowed design adds any significant rigidity while crating lots of failure options.

have a look at my tuned 42t Sugino where i reduced aluminium to the minimum. no science involved, just some human sense. these rings never failed on me. it could be lighter if i would shave away some of the shifting ramps but these remained untouched so they are light while still offering perfect shifting.

by the way: your big rings will need shifting ramps otherwise they are rather uninteresting. i think this is the biggest hurdle to take as people usually want good shifting rings.

anyway - if there would be no shifting ramps and the material Titanium rather than Aluminium i would suggest a design like the one shown below. pure and simple. in aluminium i guess this would already be around 43-45g while still beeing rideable /strong enough. no shifting ramps though...


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Nino: that´s a good suggestion.
I have the very same chainring but I taken it a step further, tuned to 47 grams or something.

I thin this Sugino is a little too flexy, but have held up supringingly well.

I can make a lot of different designs here but I can´t satisfy others needs, only my own and if you like it, fine.

No shifting ramps is possible because it´s a sheet metal cutting we are talking about.

No CNC mill or turning, I´m sorry.

I´ve never felt a need for shifting ramps, back off your power when you shift and wait 0.5 sec longer, it´s not harder than that.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*shifting ramps*



Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Nino: that´s a good suggestion.
> I have the very same chainring but I taken it a step further, tuned to 47 grams or something.
> 
> I thin this Sugino is a little too flexy, but have held up supringingly well.
> ...


i wasn't suggesting my rings. these just serve as an example for the design here. as mentioned my 49g is doing fine for me. i have never experienced any downsides, no flex or bending, perfect shifting...but as mentioned it would be easy to go even further with the tuning BUT then i would think it starts hurting the performance which for me is always the boarderline of any tuning performed: it still has to work!

but you are completely right that you can/could shift without any shifting ramps BUT, and to me this is a big but, i don't want to make a compromise in performance while saving only a couple of grams. why should people invest in a chainring that has poor shifting when you can get others with just a fraction of grams more that do offer good shifting (FRM,Extralite and DIY tuned rings)? for singlespeeders this might be a good option but not for 95% of the guys out there. so i think you migh concentrate on smaller sizes like 20, 22 , 29 and 30 ( and 34,36,38,39 on roadbikes) which is what most people need and where titanium also makes sense since it adds durability.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I did a quick mockup of a sugino copy, managed to get 52 gr without too much thought.

But does look too standard for me, but does it work so does it.

I can say Nino know his stuff.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

You Nino maganed to make a reply when I wrote.

But you forgot a important aspect, wear resistance.
How many titanium 42-44t rings does weigh about 50 gr?

Aluminium is easy to do, not the very same to design.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> I did a quick mockup of a sugino copy, managed to get 52 gr without too much thought.
> 
> But does look too standard for me, but does it work so does it.
> 
> I can say Nino know his stuff.


i think in titanium you can do a much more filigran optic than the aluminium Sugino which would be more esthetic than your cheese design above. i would keep it simple and straightforward. you rather invest in some polishing of the titanium just like Boone does. those rings are beautiful. for me other rings ALL go unnoticed anyway.

pictured below: Boone 44t

honestly - i would start by tuning what they did. that's pretty much what i was suggesting above with the tuning on the Suginos. i don't think the rings need that thickness nor those reinforcement "inserts". add your holes in the teeth and we would be looking at a ring close to 50g (or 52 like you just mentioned above)


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*wear...*



Mattias_Hellöre said:


> You Nino maganed to make a reply when I wrote.
> 
> But you forgot a important aspect, wear resistance.
> How many titanium 42-44t rings does weigh about 50 gr?
> ...


wear on big rings is just minimal. like i said it's the smaller rings that wear faster and can profit from beeing out of titanium.

rings for me have to:
1. shift good in 1st place
2. be light
2. last (not for years but an acceptable resistance and definitely hold up the abuse, no flex or bending)
2. available in desired teeth count

5. look

that's the order i would see on my wish list for rings


----------



## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

I have that exact same Boone Ti chainring. It did not shift well on my 2x9 setup (29t Boone ring as well) using an M953 XTR derailleur. I tried trimming the tips of about 10 teeth on the 44 to help the chain over when shifting, and that made a difference, but still not good enough. I then saw photos of the latest Boone ring, and it now had shift pins added.

I copied these shift pins. It was really quite simple: drill and tap 5 8-32 holes into the ring, screw in 5 8-32 stainless steel button head screws with loctite, and grind down the screws so they look just like the rivets on the Sugino chainring. This helped the shifting a lot, but it still wasn't great. It was only when I changed to the Campy Record Ti CT front derailleur, converted to top pull, that my shifting was now great.

And no, Mattias, I have not forgotten the arrangement that we discussed. I have been very busy with work, and training for my 1st race this year. That happens Saturday, so if you're still interested, we can discuss continuing next week.

Jacques


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## kylebaxter (Jul 11, 2006)

I got my new ring from Mattias today. It looks nice and has a good weight. I just have to get it fine tuned. 







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[/URL][/IMG]


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

i'm on holiday now

on august i will receive new rings too


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

kylebaxter said:


> I got my new ring from Mattias today. It looks nice and has a good weight. I just have to get it fine tuned.


Is that the new 4 x 94 FSA standard? Do you know what the weight of the FSA 29t is? I can extrapolate the weight of the other stuff if I know the weight of the small ring.


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## kylebaxter (Jul 11, 2006)

Yes 94x4. 29 tooth is 27 grams


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Here is my latest incarnation of a current working chainring in stainless steel.

But this is in 6al4v titanium.

Eliflap is getting those without ramps.

The weight difference is within 2-4 grams in my model and real life weight.

I will mount it and run until it fails, of course paired with my 29T.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

waiting for .....


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

arrived ...

weighted with bolts ...to reach an heavier weight ... :thumbsup: 

good job Matthias


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

looks very cool! But is that going to hold a strong sprint or uphill?


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

sergio_pt said:


> looks very cool! But is that going to hold a strong sprint or uphill?


middle september on board to test ...

but is rider strong to hold an uphill ? 

for now i'm strong with a dish full of *malloreddus * 

( sardininan typical pasta , little sized, good with a sausage and tomato sauce )


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

ok test it hard! :] 
they'r good for showoff or for a soft ride on the city.

good work from Mattias


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Showroom or everyday use?
It all depends on rider and his/hers strength.

Glad you received them in time.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

eliflap said:


> for now i'm strong with a dish full of *malloreddus *
> 
> ( sardininan typical pasta , little sized, good with a sausage and tomato sauce )


you have to show those guys what a typical sardininan pasta looks like!
i am going there almost every year...i love the Costa Smeralda!

BTW: Matthias-very nice rings!


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

nino said:


> you have to show those guys what a typical sardininan pasta looks like!
> i am going there almost every year...i love the Costa Smeralda!
> 
> BTW: Matthias-very nice rings!


ahhhh ... this morning no coffe, no milk...

:thumbsup:


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Eliflap: the screws threads on OK on the smaller ring?

Please send me a email if there´s any problems.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

yes ...i tried to mount the screws by hand .... and no on spider . but for now it's all ok

i will mount on at middle of september on bike


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## ka0t1c07 (Aug 3, 2005)

Wow, very nice. Hope for good results.


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## indrek (Feb 16, 2004)

Here are my DIY rings. 52 and 44 for road, and 42 and 34 for mtb. Laser cut from stainless steel (so not that light: road set ~200g, mtb set ~160g). They are ellipse shaped (like o.symetric) for trying out the design. Road set has now been tested over several TT races and works just fine (even the shifting is good even though there are no ramps). Should have shaved off more material though as it came bit too strong. MTB version will get tested this weekend and if the shifting is ok and the chain doesn't hop off on rocky terrain then it will be raced in marathon in couple of weeks.
Road:
















MTB:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*sorry but...*



indrek said:


> Here are my DIY rings. 52 and 44 for road, and 42 and 34 for mtb. Laser cut from stainless steel (so not that light: road set ~200g, mtb set ~160g). They are ellipse shaped (like o.symetric) for trying out the design. Road set has now been tested over several TT races and works just fine (even the shifting is good even though there are no ramps). Should have shaved off more material though as it came bit too strong. MTB version will get tested this weekend and if the shifting is ok and the chain doesn't hop off on rocky terrain then it will be raced in marathon in couple of weeks.


could you explain why you are doing all this work if the end-result is a set of heavy rings with no shifting ramps???

just buy yourself some cheapo asian made aluminium rings.those do a good job and are lighter while having some sort of shifting ramps as well.

i really don't understand your reasoning???


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## Baulz (Sep 16, 2005)

nino said:


> could you explain why you are doing all this work if the end-result is a set of heavy rings with no shifting ramps???
> 
> just buy yourself some cheapo asian made aluminium rings.those do a good job and are lighter while having some sort of shifting ramps as well.
> 
> i really don't understand your reasoning???


Did you read his post?



> They are ellipse shaped (like o.symetric) for trying out the design.


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## indrek (Feb 16, 2004)

nino said:


> could you explain why you are doing all this work if the end-result is a set of heavy rings with no shifting ramps???
> 
> just buy yourself some cheapo asian made aluminium rings.those do a good job and are lighter while having some sort of shifting ramps as well.
> 
> i really don't understand your reasoning???


Because O.Symetric rings cost 10 times as much as these. Because the guy wasn't sure if he likes the ellipse shaped rings (so why pay 230€ if u are not sure). Plus the pleasure of doing thing by yourself. And as I said before they are just for experimenting the ellipse shape so if the result is positive then i will make them from Al and they're gonna definetly be lighter and many times cheaper than O.Symentric!


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

on board

i must use 2 shims every hole 

0,004 + 0,003 inches 

thanks to canadian friends ... :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

tomorrow i will test them

sorry for dust and location


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

man make a patent on that design...


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

sergio_pt said:


> man make a patent on that design...


Are you referring to my chainrings that eliflap got?


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Are you referring to my chainrings that eliflap got?


Yes. They look cool. I will not be surprised if you find some brand selling a similar design.


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## ka0t1c07 (Aug 3, 2005)

eliflap said:


> on board
> 
> i must use 2 shims every hole
> 
> ...












Wow, that looks so light weight. Hows the middle ring holding up? Nice work.

Tin


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

tested today

*okkkkkkkkkkkkkk*

no shifting problem

rigidity : ok

climbing : ok


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

I doubt a brand name would sell them.

Whilst i think it's cool - there just looking a bit too thin and light can you imagine if someone bought one and it snapped whilst they where climbing?

Lawsuits everywhere - not worth the risk.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Tiffster, they are and is experimental prototypes.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

I know - that's what i said i think it's really cool doing them but i doubt someone like TA, Carbon/Ti etc etc would make rings like it. Its all part of user risk acceptance etc i suppose.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Tiffster: I think like you, they would not risk their reputation in these "stupid" light rings.


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

Mattias_Hellöre, did you get my PM?


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## cjeckert (Apr 18, 2008)

Awesome work Mattias


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*New Project for Mattias...*

i just asked Mattias to do me a 27t chainring as i love my 2x9 setup (29/42 with a 11-32 cassette in the back) but the 29t i am using is just missing that tiny bit on steeper hills. i sure could use a 11-34 cassette to get a lower gear but i don't like the big gaps of the 34 cassette and i don't like the added weight and i don't like to put a longer caged rear derailleur as well (even more added weight) and this would also ask for a slightly longer chain...correct - more weight again.

so i asked Mattias to do me some 27t chainrings. 27/42 is the gearing the whole Swisspower Team (Frischi,Nino Schurter, Florian Vogel etc) is running. those guys use that special FRM integrated crankset which comes with that 27/42 gearing:
http://www.frmbike.de/catalog/index.php?page=produkte&gruppe=23&kategor

this is usually not possible on a regular crankset.but by moving chainrings inwards you can run the 27t granny ring and the 42t on the middle position and leave the outer position alone. that's what Sabine Spitz used at the olympics as well (see pic below of her 30/42 setup) and i also have pics of Absalon with the outer chainring missing.

when you look at the gearing a 27/42 gives the best mix and with a 32 in the back it should also cover steeper hills.

Mattias has already done a drawing and it seems such a ring will weigh only 25g or even less out of Titanium. I'm already looking forward to try this setup. my friends of the Swisspower Team are really happy with 27/42. we will see....


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Yeah ive been thinking of that route. As you said if you bolt the middle ring to where the granny is and the outer to the middle it means you get a great chainline and can use roadie mechs no problem. 

If i can't get my spacer moved over solution working for 2x9 it looks like i'll get some rings made :thumbsup:


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

27 on a 5 arms spider is not possible , right ?


PS for Matthias : my scalpel is dismounted , so your rings are sleeping


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Eliflap, so they rings are still doing fine I assume?,5 arm 58 BCD is at my computer home, so it´s possible.

I will do more detailed drawings later tonight.

Nino, as we said before, I will do the 5 arm version later tonight and post here.

Spacers should be easy done as I´ve ordered some titanium spacers but they are in wrong dimensions.

Thinner versions will be in titanium, the fatter pictured above is intended for destructive testing i.e "try to bend if you can".


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*it's possible!*



eliflap said:


> 27 on a 5 arms spider is not possible , right ?
> 
> PS for Matthias : my scalpel is dismounted , so your rings are sleeping


it is possible. just as i explained above you need to mount the 27t on the inner position and the 42 on the middle position and forget about the outer. as shown in the picture of Sabine Spitz setup on her Clavicula cranks using 30/40 without outer chainring.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

nino said:


> i just asked Mattias to do me a 27t chainring. Mattias has already done a drawing.


The drawing says 68BCD. I hope its supposed to be 58 or 64.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Blown Civic: I had the opportunity to make some variants, all ended in 25-27 grams.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Nino got pictures on ready prototypes tonight.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*27t chainrings...*

ok - i finally got those prototypes from Mattias.

as mentioned these are supposed to fit on the granny ring position on either 5-bolt compact (94/58mm) or 4-bolt compact(104/64mm) cranksets. since these are just some working prototypes they got made out of ordinary steel. therefore the weight still isn't very attractive but this wasn't important right now. i just wanted to try out if this would be a good thing.

well - it seems i hit the bullet.i still didn't got for a real ride but by just riding around the block i can tell here is no weakness. but i now got a really low gear for steeper climbs-cool!

and to my surprise the cranks don't look bad at all. i was thinking they would look real odd with that outer ring position empty but you really don't take note when standing in front of the bike.you really have to take a closer look to see it.

Well done Mattias!! we might have a closer look at the details but i think this is exactly what i was looking for.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Someone could likely have a nice little business making little carbon fiber fillers for those outer chainring mounting flats so they blend seamlessly into the chainring arms.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Nino, tell me if they holds up well so I can make Ti ones in the weekend.


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

He!!, Even at that weight for a steel small ring that'd last awhile is awesome. Not much heavier than my non-w-weenie 24 tooth Blackspire Pro's that I have on my 29er 2x9 set-ups. Look forward to seeing the 4-bolt installed on a crank as well.

G


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*1st ride - no problems!*



Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Nino, tell me if they holds up well so I can make Ti ones in the weekend.


i went for a real ride today without any problems. the gearing is definitely lower and this is what i was looking for.no issues whatsoever.

Mattias, i went with a friend if mine of the swisspower team and he will put the 4-bolt ring on his bike. so we will soon know if that works as good. i don't see what could go wrong anyway.

so i'd say go ahead and make us some out of ALUMINIUM! titanium is ok as durability might be better but i'd say aluminium will be good enough.

bye
nino


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Nino: I have two sheets of 7475-T76 aluminum here, let me see what I can do.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

This chainring is for a MTBR member.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

oh Matthias , simply wonderful


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## skim1040 (Jul 16, 2007)

Mattias, i'm always impressed with your designs!

Let me know if you need another beta tester  I'd be more than happy to put them threw the ringer on my race rig :thumbsup:


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## scarsellone (Oct 17, 2005)

Nino
How is the 27 x 42 working out? Do you suggest running this pairing with a 2 ring spyder or the 3 ring spyder? The 3 ring is a 4 bolt,& the 2 ring is a 5 bolt?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

This one for a 104mm BCD crankset.


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> This one for a 104mm BCD crankset.


Would love a 31T for a 104BCD. Only request is that it could withstand an abusive singlespeeder


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

For SRAM 146mm BCD 42T


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Amazing work.....i'm very impressed


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Mattias,

How does one contact you about a crazy project?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Cheers!, I´ve read your PM and I will reply to you later if it´s OK?


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

CooL! I wasn't sure if it went through.


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## Ove (Nov 18, 2008)

Very nice work as usual Mattias!

The words of Colin Chapman of Lotus come to mind; 
“If one of my cars crosses the Finish Line and nothing has broken, the car is built too heavy.” 

Ride it until it fails, then add some metal for your next chainring  


Got any P car projects at the moment?


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## rufusdesign (Sep 19, 2008)

If you need a downhill racer tester for a 40 tooth ti or aluminum ring let me know. FSA Gravity lights crankset. 104mm 40 tooth


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Ove said:


> Very nice work as usual Mattias!
> 
> The words of Colin Chapman of Lotus come to mind;
> "If one of my cars crosses the Finish Line and nothing has broken, the car is built too heavy."
> ...


Hi, nice to see you here.

I will try my best to make light but durable chainrings that can shift.

Colin Chapman have right, I made my 17 gram 29T in this way, testing a lot and then see they skinny ring holding up fine.

I sold my Porsche 911 but still make 935 chassis for anyone who want to buy them, version 3 right now.
Interested?


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

rufusdesign said:


> If you need a downhill racer tester for a 40 tooth ti or aluminum ring let me know. FSA Gravity lights crankset. 104mm 40 tooth


Contact me at [email protected] so can we see what we can do.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

nino said:


> ok - i finally got those prototypes from Mattias.
> 
> as mentioned these are supposed to fit on the granny ring position on either 5-bolt compact (94/58mm) or 4-bolt compact(104/64mm) cranksets. since these are just some working prototypes they got made out of ordinary steel. therefore the weight still isn't very attractive but this wasn't important right now. i just wanted to try out if this would be a good thing.
> 
> ...


heh dont push too hard...


----------



## fernandoj (Mar 19, 2008)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> For SRAM 146mm BCD 42T


Amazing!, this one came to Spain if I'm not wrong  but for an XTR M960 crankset I guess :idea:


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## dinoadventures (May 2, 2008)

Mattias, 
Can you do rings for a White Industries or Middleburn spiderless crankset?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Fernandoj: you are correct, I thought about a another chainring when I wrote this post.

Dinoadventures: Sure I can, but I have to ask for measurements or take a used chainring as template.


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## maelgwn (Dec 18, 2008)

Mattias, How small can you make a middle ring (eg 4 arm 104 BCD)?


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

maelgwn said:


> Mattias, How small can you make a middle ring (eg 4 arm 104 BCD)?


I got the very same question recently, I did a 31T chainring, the smallest you can go really.
30T is too close the boltholes.
But if you move to granny ring, you can go smaller but it all depends on your chainstays.
sometimes the 32T in granny ring place does gouge the chainstays.


----------



## maelgwn (Dec 18, 2008)

hmm OK, have you tried making cogs to go on a cassette?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

maelgwn said:


> hmm OK, have you tried making cogs to go on a cassette?


Yes, I did cogs for me but there´s problem with sizing for the freewheel splines as some brands tend to be slightly bigger or smaller than shimano 950 XTR.

My goal is a homemade driveline except chain and derailleurs.


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## maelgwn (Dec 18, 2008)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Yes, I did cogs for me but there´s problem with sizing for the freewheel splines as some brands tend to be slightly bigger or smaller than shimano 950 XTR.


I dont get it, i thought all cassettes were fitted onto basically all freewheels? Or is it just manufacturing tolerances are low for this part and this becomes a problem when the cogs in the cassette are not joined?


----------



## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Mattias, can you make a 29t middle ring for my XTR M960?


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

maelgwn said:


> I dont get it, i thought all cassettes were fitted onto basically all freewheels? Or is it just manufacturing tolerances are low for this part and this becomes a problem when the cogs in the cassette are not joined?


I mean, I want so tight tolerance as possible, it should be a snug fit, not loosey as my action tec cogs.

But it´s possible to make separate cogs and add spacers to get a complete cassette, yes.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Zachariah said:


> Mattias, can you make a 29t middle ring for my XTR M960?


The lowest I can go with a 104 BCD (M970) is 31T, so I say the same to you, 102mm is M960 so it´s not possible.


----------



## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

Another fantastic job from Mattias that I´ve just received today...


----------



## biketuna (Mar 28, 2008)

Is that Ti?


----------



## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

Yesss...!!


----------



## fernandoj (Mar 19, 2008)

Experimental prototype 31T xDD

Anda que no te lo montas bien marinito!


----------



## Datalogger (Jul 5, 2008)

Oooh, that's pretty! Weight/est. price?


----------



## rufusdesign (Sep 19, 2008)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Contact me at [email protected] so can we see what we can do.


Mattias,
I never heard back from you after our second email.
I am still very interested in testing for you in the DH race application.


----------



## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

Only 21 grs...

price? good...ask Mattias


----------



## yeyo (Dec 8, 2005)

MOre chainrings in Ti, 110 bcd 33T and 23T 74bcd.........Thanks Mattias


----------



## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

Sooo nice, Yeyo..

Vamos, que molan un huevo, tío...


----------



## jthurd (Oct 4, 2006)

Mattias, Your rings are an inspiration. I think I will play with my dremmel and some chainrings this weekend 
Also, how did you tune your M950 Crankset? Did you remove material evenly from the arms? Did you use a sander? I would like to tune something similar. thanks-


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

jthurd: yes i used a portable belt sander and a floor mounted belt sander.

Then a smaller sander.

I did this version for a time ago, I´m doing the very same process again but with more material grinded away this time on a another M950 crankset.

Pics coming when I finetuned the spider.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I made a bunch XTR M960 and M970 chainrings today.
You will se what I did but first I have to grind and run them on my steel brushing machine.

But first, some in work shots.
Taken by a Nokia E71.


----------



## Datalogger (Jul 5, 2008)

indian fire trail said:


> Another fantastic job from Mattias that I´ve just received today...


What kind of bolts are those red ones?


----------



## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*I just read this entire thread*

It has been around for a bit and I never gave it a chance before. Who the heck would make these things. You guys are bull goose looney and I love it. Great work.


----------



## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

Datalogger said:


> What kind of bolts are those red ones?


KCNC alu


----------



## PeterB (Sep 14, 2005)

Just received a small 28T chainring for my triple dura ace road crank.
The dura ace has a very unusual 92mm BCD.
The chainring turned out great! Very light but looks also very strong.

Thanks Mattias :thumbsup:


----------



## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

*Hve fitted my 58mm 27tooth ti rings*

Thanks to Mattias,
I have fitted my 27 tooth rings to my 2 main riding bikes......a great option....easier on those climbs.....well worth it, lost weight & better gearing options 
All my mates here at the end of the world (New Zealand) are envious.
A big thanks.......
Now who makes a lite weight 28.6 front D band??????
Next option a 40tooth ti 94.....if my wife lets me.......lol:thumbsup:


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

It´s fun you all like my effort in these rings.

Derailleur bands should be easy to make in 1mm titanium, have to think a little first about style.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Last job at the late evening, the kids and wife was gone.

Grinding the toothtips and making them nice is left.

Some hours more, later they are usable for anyone.


----------



## rufusdesign (Sep 19, 2008)

I can't wait for my 36t and 40t!!!!! 

I am excited to try these out in 4X and DH race applications for you. 

They all look great.


----------



## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Is that one of my babies on the top row, 2nd from the right side (42t x 104 with extra meat?)?


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

BlownCivic said:


> Is that one of my babies on the top row, 2nd from the right side (42t x 104 with extra meat?)?


No that´s not your.
Your will be cut in next batch I ran out of sheets.
Sorry!


----------



## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

That Bash ring looks amazing!


----------



## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

hey rufus are you going for a super weight weenie build on your F-bomb, cant wait to see how light you can go.


----------



## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

i wondering it you are able to do something like that ...


42-27 without spider for Cannondale crankset

as this of FRM :

http://cgi.ebay.com/FRM-Chainring-Set-for-Cannondale-SI-Crankarm-27-42tooth_W0QQitemZ190286004045QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item190286004045&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1240|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Hi Eliflap, sure I can.
I have to make measurements of the splines in center and see how it´s mounted.

I will do it in titanium for longevity.

Mail me at [email protected] if we can do something.



eliflap said:


> i wondering it you are able to do something like that ...
> 
> 42-27 without spider for Cannondale crankset
> 
> ...


----------



## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

you got mail


----------



## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

Well, after a month testing I can say that Mattias´ 31 middle ring works very well...I haven´t noticed any lack of rigidity and the shifting is good (not as smooth as on Shimano but still pretty good)...


----------



## Francesc (Sep 4, 2008)

great job!


----------



## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

my rings still work well....

every one that see them ask if they are too fragile

i reply to come with me and see with their own eyes


----------



## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

*hve 2 agree with you*

Now I'm heading into winter in NZ the chain rings are lasting well.....no hint of wear or chain suck issues....best chain rings I have ever used....period!:thumbsup: 
conditions here, wet lots of sticky clay mud, gravel roads with a fine covering of gravel....grit & lumpy quarry rocks.:madman: 
Just right for wearing chain rings or bending them. I ride 5-6 days per week from 1hr to 5+hr marathons.


----------



## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

the rings are long lasting .... no wear signs ....


----------



## Monticone (Nov 30, 2004)

*Never heard of copyright?*



Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Hi Eliflap, sure I can.
> I have to make measurements of the splines in center and see how it´s mounted.
> 
> I will do it in titanium for longevity.
> ...


Leonardi and FRM will be very happy that someone copy their products ... :thumbsup:


----------



## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

dont FRM copy everyone else's stuff though ?


----------



## Monticone (Nov 30, 2004)

Tiffster said:


> dont FRM copy everyone else's stuff though ?


Ok, so this is a very good reason.

P.S.
Certainly I'm not a FRM fan, but...


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

As long they aren´t patented it´s free for anyone to make copies, tough but true.


----------



## raceer2 (Jul 21, 2007)

These are fully functioning works of art ! Its a shame to have them 'hidden' away behind a bash guard.

Have done some serious testing on the new rings including a 24hr race and the shifting, wear, etc has been flawless ! Shifting requires firm/continous action on my modified setup and is not an issue.

Thanks again for all the time and effort put into these rings !

Hope to test the other set when I get some time to install them :-(


----------



## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

What PSI does the waterjet operate at? How narrow of a stream does it use?

Is that MDF or something similar backing the sheet metal?


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

bad mechanic said:


> What PSI does the waterjet operate at? How narrow of a stream does it use?
> 
> Is that MDF or something similar backing the sheet metal?


I have a waterjet machine at my current primary job.
That´s a Resato from netherlands.
4000 Bar with a beam of 1.02mm.
Should be exact down to 0.1 mm, but I have nothing to compare with.


----------



## Kuschi (May 13, 2007)

Got mine today, so thanks Mattias for the nice Rings. The finish looks great and the weight even more! :thumbsup: Now i´ll go for a ride and see how they perform.


----------



## schuster_md (May 18, 2007)

nino said:


> i just asked Mattias to do me a 27t chainring as i love my 2x9 setup (29/42 with a 11-32 cassette in the back) but the 29t i am using is just missing that tiny bit on steeper hills. i sure could use a 11-34 cassette to get a lower gear but i don't like the big gaps of the 34 cassette and i don't like the added weight and i don't like to put a longer caged rear derailleur as well (even more added weight) and this would also ask for a slightly longer chain...correct - more weight again.
> 
> so i asked Mattias to do me some 27t chainrings. 27/42 is the gearing the whole Swisspower Team (Frischi,Nino Schurter, Florian Vogel etc) is running. those guys use that special FRM integrated crankset which comes with that 27/42 gearing:
> http://www.frmbike.de/catalog/index.php?page=produkte&gruppe=23&kategor
> ...


Nino:

What do you think of the Specialites TA Chinook chainrings that you were using?
Thanks


----------



## Hadouken* (Nov 27, 2007)

Hi Mattias, I just sent you an email.


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

schuster_md said:


> Nino:
> 
> What do you think of the Specialites TA Chinook chainrings that you were using?
> Thanks


What i think?
They look good, shift good but weigh a ton.


----------



## biketuna (Mar 28, 2008)

Mattias can you make one of these sprockets if I send you one to measure?
It would be flat and made in Ti. It's for a shimano Alfine Hub.


----------



## ryball (May 14, 2007)

biketuna said:


> Mattias can you make one of these sprockets if I send you one to measure?
> It would be flat and made in Ti. It's for a shimano Alfine Hub.
> 
> View attachment 456080


OOH!!! :eekster:


----------



## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

i have a question, do you make bash guards as well Mattias?


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

biketuna: yes i can, send me accurate measurements of the splines and hole diameter.

nuck_norris: i can do bash guards in 6061 aluminum 2mm or 4.8mm as well.

drop me a mail at [email protected] so i can send drawings.


----------



## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> This chainring is for a MTBR member.


Mattias, is this supposed to replace the M960 44t chainring? How did it perform? I am looking at 42/29t for my M960. Is this possible?


----------



## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Let us know when you make rings for XTR M960...thanks!


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Zachariah, I´ve done many M960 specific rings.
In the 102mm circle (middle ring) lowest is 31T, if you want 29T, use the granny bolt circle at 64mm.
Move the outside ring to middle - done.


----------



## liam2051 (Apr 19, 2008)

mattias you havent thought about making some rotors?


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

liam2051 said:


> mattias you havent thought about making some rotors?


Rotors would be nice to do but more scary as there´s more forces involved and a failure would be catastrophic.

Maybe for personal use though.


----------



## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

and what about the Cannondale spider in titanium ?

110-74 BCD ....


----------



## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

please take a look ...

a 800-900 km done on this set up

NO issues , NO failure , NO wear ... and a weight .... WOW

SI spider and bolts are a half of weight


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

eliflap: I have a standing wish with 110-64 in aluminum, I have some 6061 here so I try if I can do it cheaply enough and anodized.


----------



## schuster_md (May 18, 2007)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> eliflap: I have a standing wish with 110-64 in aluminum, I have some 6061 here so I try if I can do it cheaply enough and anodized.


Mattias did you mean 110/74 BCD spider?


----------



## raceer2 (Jul 21, 2007)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Zachariah, I´ve done many M960 specific rings.
> In the 102mm circle (middle ring) lowest is 31T, if you want 29T, use the granny bolt circle at 64mm.
> Move the outside ring to middle - done.


yep it works great ! plus you have the outside to install a very lightweight bash guard too !


----------



## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> eliflap: I have a standing wish with 110-64 in aluminum, I have some 6061 here so I try if I can do it cheaply enough and anodized.


sent mail

110 - 74


----------



## Zakarina (May 1, 2008)

This thread is pretty interesting, would it be possible to make chainrings for XTR M900 cranks? 110-74 mm BCD 5 bolt 29-39-49 T, in aluminium?


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Zakarina: yes it´s possible, drop me a mail to [email protected]


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I did a own version of the FRM rings combo for Hollowgram cranks but four more holes for the more common 64mm BCD chainrings for flexibility.

A lot more tuning potential in this version.


----------



## Hadouken* (Nov 27, 2007)

Nice work Mattias, i hope my rings will look that good!!


----------



## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

i am so excited to receive at home in a few days


wowww


----------



## Ninko (Jul 19, 2006)

Oops,

my 29T x94 broke. 
I think it's because the chainring bolts weren't tight anymore. During a race the bolts came loose I guess and then after the race i was just a bit pedalling around to get those legs fresh again and in a very easy stupid climb the chainring broke. 
When I got back and checked the bolts 4 of the 5 bolts came loose. This never happened to me before but heck, there's a first time for everything...
I'm sure the chainring would have hold on when the bolts wouldn't came loose.

I will contact you soon Mattias, You can also make for a Campagnolo Compact crankset?

Photo's:


----------



## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

guess this chainrings are TTTTOOOO MUCH tuned?


----------



## Ninko (Jul 19, 2006)

I don't think it would have snapped when the bolts would be tight.
It survived a lot of races before it broke. so I'm sure it can handle the force I was using at the moment of breaking...


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Hi Ninko, write me a line at [email protected] so I can help you.
No bolt circle is impossible.


----------



## CheeseSoda (Jan 8, 2007)

Is it just me, or is the junction where the reinforcement coming from the bolt hole meets the tooth ring too angular? On all the busted rings in this thread it looks like it was due to loose chainring bolts, and the failures were at that point... That says "stress riser" to me. So maybe rounding that junction out with just a tad more material there, and a healthy dose of Loctite on the chainring bolts and we would have a winner?


----------



## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Is it possible that the dimmunitive nature of the material around the bolt holes is leading to flexing that in fact causes the loosening of the bolts? i.e.: the metal working back and forth actually turning the nut or bolt or combination of both, leading to the loosening?


----------



## CheeseSoda (Jan 8, 2007)

I would believe that as well. Maybe all 3 issues.


----------



## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

*my 27 58mm going strong*

I take your point on the issues, but I'm using steel botls and they are still tight. I have had issues in the past with alloy bolts not handling the stress and working loose. Switching to steel male (a bit heavier) into alloy female seems to have done the trick for the past 10 years on the middle rings I use. A small amount of ti prep keeps them from siezing too.:thumbsup:


----------



## Ninko (Jul 19, 2006)

Just check them regularly. I've rode them pretty much this year in a lot of races, But they cranked finally on the worldcup track in Houffalize wich is a very demanding track for the material. I think it just came loose by the bouncing terrain.


----------



## Robin v Berkel (Aug 19, 2008)

hi

what is the weight of 32T ring ? my Extralite weight 31gr


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Robin v Berkel said:


> hi
> 
> what is the weight of 32T ring ? my Extralite weight 31gr


It depends on bolt circle, style and material.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Robin v Berkel said:


> hi
> 
> what is the weight of 32T ring ? my Extralite weight 31gr


I just sent a 31T 104mm BCD to a mtbr member, weighing at 22 grams.
Made some of this type, all of them still functioning well.


----------



## schuster_md (May 18, 2007)

Hi Mattias:

Any news about the 110/74 spider for the Cannondale crank?

RGDS,

A.S.


----------



## Hadouken* (Nov 27, 2007)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> I just sent a 31T 104mm BCD to a mtbr member, weighing at 22 grams.
> Made some of this type, all of them still functioning well.


Is that my ring Mattias? It looks awesome! Any chance of getting a pic of the other rings?


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

schuster_md said:


> Hi Mattias:
> 
> Any news about the 110/74 spider for the Cannondale crank?
> 
> ...


Here is a rough drawing, I haven´t edited as per your comments yet.


----------



## Francesc (Sep 4, 2008)

Is possible to made disc brake rotors of steel or titanium?


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Francesc: it´s possible but I will stay away from them just because there´s possible catastrophic failures and there´s other affordable sellers on the market.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Sub 40 gram spider, some more development needed.

Already ordered and got two 7075-T6 plates to be cutted.


----------



## Soya (Jun 22, 2007)

I think you should go with a different style or size of cutout for the ovals, the randomness of the connections between the center and the arms doesn't seem like a good idea.


----------



## CheeseSoda (Jan 8, 2007)

Soya said:


> I think you should go with a different style or size of cutout for the ovals, the randomness of the connections between the center and the arms doesn't seem like a good idea.


I agree. That was was exactly my first thought.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

True, I did a quick sketch up, checking the weight, then I will finetune as most of them do prefer low weight and custom bolt circle.

That´s not a final design, some simulation will be done before I send them to a water jet cutter.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Sub 35 grams as is.


----------



## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

That spider design appears to have some 3D machining as well as 2D water jet cutting, have you been able to add some CNC mill capability?


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

rockyuphill said:


> That spider design appears to have some 3D machining as well as 2D water jet cutting, have you been able to add some CNC mill capability?


Hi, currently - no, there´s no need for 3D machining.
For most of my one-offs I use manual machines.

For example this is completely hand made.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

36T cassette sprocket.


----------



## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

That 36T sprocket is fantastic!


----------



## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

*How much for the 36 cog?*

Hi Mattias,
How much for the 36 tooth? That would be useful some times.:thumbsup:


----------



## schuster_md (May 18, 2007)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Sub 35 grams as is.


Hi Mattias:

I was looking at your prototype and it looks great. I wanted to know how are you gonna solve the issue of maintaining the distance between the outer and inner chainring as the 74BCD ring must be screwed to the holes in the spider like this old triple CODA spider that include a separation and the outer ring (110BCD) goes in the middle position.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

schuster_md: I thought about washers just because of my chainrings are in 2mm thickness and others are much thicker so It would screw up the spacing.

My thought is to only use as few machines as possible to get a light and good product.


----------



## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

Mattias, is that 36T cassette sprocket Aluminum?

That would be a great idea to have 34T and 36T in alu
as wear will be not a lot (think in the 22-36T alu front chainring)
and combined with XTR sprocket (changing two smallest sprockets for 1)
would result in a very interesting config.

and remember you can ad holes between arms, near the teeth


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

STS said:


> Mattias, is that 36T cassette sprocket Aluminum?
> 
> That would be a great idea to have 34T and 36T in alu
> as wear will be not a lot (think in the 22-36T alu front chainring)
> ...


The 36T is in titanium, I can always make ones in aluminum but the spline interface to the cassette body will be weak.

The choice is yours.


----------



## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

as light hubs normally have alu body, that should be right
best would be the alu sprocket in one piece including the spacer
but that is only possible with CNC from a thicker alu sleve


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

another happy customer, thanks.
28t Al 58bcd 20.4g
29t Al 94bcd 15.3
30t Al 94bcd 18
29t Ti 94bcd 15.8


----------



## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

i saw now the spider for Cannondale as i asked in post #250


simply incredible !


----------



## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

is this one a bash guard ?


for which ring ? 36T ?


----------



## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

*just fitted a 40ti from mattias*

A g8 chain ring....but I needed to use some 1.1mm spacers under the chain ring to get it close enough to the 27 for the m970 shifter/deraliers to work consistently. A few hours messing around nearly drove me nuts......bloody shimano..& their spacing:madman: 
That was never a problem with my twist shifters on the other bike. 
Oh well she works now :thumbsup:


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

One more batch came today.
Larger and larger batches every time.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

11T derailleur pulley with SKF 625Z


----------



## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

How much would a 27t ring in a 64mm BCD cost/weigh?


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Everyone: any price quotation mail me at [email protected] .
I´m not selling anything here in this thread.


----------



## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

Mattias, very interesting thread showing the evolution of you designs and range of products. I've also read your other thread with the XTR 960 with the 42/ 27 rings and waiting on performance reports for that set up. 

Also a Zaskaraholic


----------



## jw8725 (Jun 12, 2009)

Matt are you liable to make any other Ti hardware?


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

jw8725: I can make some stuff, drop me a mail.


----------



## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

Matthias , see post #290 and reply me.

and : a 10T pulley is available too ?


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

eliflap said:


> Matthias , see post #290 and reply me.
> 
> and : a 10T pulley is available too ?


Hi Eliflap, that´s for a 32T, can make a another one for any ring size you want.

10T pulley is no problem.
Want one?


----------



## IPA Rider (Aug 24, 2008)

*Spacers*

I'm really looking forward to getting my middle and granny rings for my xtr 970...so exactly what am I going to need to get the spacing right? I'd like to get on it now so I'm setup when the new rings arrive, thanks...


----------



## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

What does the 11t sprocket weigh with the bearing? I think you could remove some more material from it. These are not under very much stress. Join together some of the holes Maybe only every 2nd set, not necessarily like my photo edit.


----------



## cadre (Dec 18, 2007)

*Middleburn 6/4 Ti duo chainring 42/29T (ISIS)*

Hi Mattias, This is Tze Theng from Singapore. Just sent u an email basically to ask if u could fabricate an EXACT Ti version of Middleburn 6/4 Ti duo chainring 42/29T (ISIS)?
Notice that u fabricate spider too! Thats great!! However was wondering if u could integrate both the 29T CHAINRING and the 3-ARMED Spider IN ONE PIECE? Basically just like what middleburn has. Looking forward to it!!


----------



## Mads Kock (May 26, 2005)

Hej Mattias - just went through this post. Absolute fantastic work you make and cool to show failures and not whine about it and just go on. I wish you the best of luck.

De bedste hilsner, Mads


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

BlownCivic: approx 10 grams as is, did weigh it when I made a set to a customer.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Mads, thanks for the kind words, much appreciated.


----------



## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

Did you get anything in todays mail?


----------



## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

WOW! i can't believe i didn't find this thread sooner. As a tinkerer, am parts maker myself i am so so jealouse of cnc and water jet capability. One thing i thought of when seeing the shattered chainrings was that the rounded mounting tabs where at fault, they look nice and are totally light but a square interface would keep the load spreadout over more than one bolt, a flexing chainring can spin on the chainring bolt, if the chainring bolts were splined with matching splines in the chainring and the spider it would take more to make things crumple.


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

I like having gear choices,if you're gonna have a front deraileur anyway removing one little chainring seems like such an inefficient way a shed a few grams,even with that q factor thing. My ideal crankset would have a 20,27,36 coupled with a 12,14,16,19,22,25,28,31,34 cassette. With a tight triple ramps don't do that much,if you're really small scale you could probabely (sort of)copy variable tooth profiles and ramps from the biggys, maybe blend sram and shimano(shramano), no one would tattle on you


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Hi Crazy8, I got these yesterday.
Thanks a lot!
I will pair these with one big ring I made specifically for low weight and longevity not stiffness.

Pics are following..


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Sub 600 gram crankset with more tuning potential!
593gram with steel pinch bolt and one of the heaviest alu bolts I´ve seen as bearing preload bolt.


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

sub 600 for complete crankset, made it with a few grams to spare It looks light and the color goes good with ti. I'm pleased.

-crazy


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## yeyo (Dec 8, 2005)

Some photos of the pulleys and the chainrings in the bike

By the moment all work perfect, the looks pulleys is really nice :thumbsup:










[


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

Yeyo, Is this the Waltworks? Those pulleys look good. I'd like to see a closer photo showing the cassette. How much use do you have on it and whats your opinion so far.

crazy


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

*Looking for a performance report*

Mattias, have you installed the cranks and rode enough to give a initial opinion on how this light set of cranks perform. Anxious to hear your thoughts.


Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Sub 600 gram crankset with more tuning potential!
> 593gram with steel pinch bolt and one of the heaviest alu bolts I´ve seen as bearing preload bolt.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

RD, I just brought my family home so I´m busy today but maybe in monday.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

One smaller batch came in this morning.
A quite different style of chainrings this time.

One is a version two of Hollowgram chainring.


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## yeyo (Dec 8, 2005)

crazy8 said:


> Yeyo, Is this the Waltworks? Those pulleys look good. I'd like to see a closer photo showing the cassette. How much use do you have on it and whats your opinion so far.
> 
> crazy


Yes! Is the Waltworks. I dont know few miles have a casstte, I dont use bike computer. The cassete is really smooth and by the moment durable.

Sorry for my poor english


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Does anyone know the smallest chain ring a 104 BCD? I'd really like the ability to run a 29t or a 32t chain ring.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

30t seems to be the smallest that will bolt to the 104 bolt circle, and most times requires some mild modifications to the chainring tabs on the cranks so the chain does not sit/ride on the end of the tabs.


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## biketuna (Mar 28, 2008)

I believe a 31 will fit without filing. I run my 26,28 and 30 on the inside. One at a time of course.


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

*Looking Good*

Yeyo, your English is much better than my Spanish. I've been trying to gather feedback on the ceramic performance on the cassettes, that's why I ask. Good reports from those that have responded though. I'm anxious to hear about the new build.

Mattias, You've got a wide variety of rings this batch, and the bash ring to the left looks so very light, if you will, give me the weight on it. You've also redesigned the pulley wheels, what bearings are you using for them? I think I have some ceramics to fit. I'd like to have some to add a little color to.

-crazy


yeyo said:


> Yes! Is the Waltworks. I dont know few miles have a casstte, I dont use bike computer. The cassete is really smooth and by the moment durable.
> 
> Sorry for my poor english


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

crazy8, you will get the weights and detailed info more in this thread when I grind all of them and weighed.

/Mattias


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## ISuckAtRiding (Jul 7, 2006)

nice work man. 
I do my own custom chainrings and cogs too, glad to see i'm not the only one who's having fun with it. Waterjet is an interesting way to go... probably alot quicker than CNC machining them like i do. I wish i had a water jet.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Lightweight ti pulleys with Boca Hybrid ceramic bearings.

Lightweight 36T chainguard - not bashring for FSA compact 94mm.

37T Ti bashguard, should hold up for most AM users.

SS kit for a 19T and 33-104mm chainring, all chainrings are in ti, bolts are A4 grade stainless.


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## biketuna (Mar 28, 2008)

very sexy !!!!!!!


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## rockhound (Dec 19, 2005)

nino said:


> ok - i finally got those prototypes from Mattias.
> 
> as mentioned these are supposed to fit on the granny ring position on either 5-bolt compact (94/58mm) or 4-bolt compact(104/64mm) cranksets. since these are just some working prototypes they got made out of ordinary steel. therefore the weight still isn't very attractive but this wasn't important right now. i just wanted to try out if this would be a good thing.


Hey Nino, how is the steel 27t 5 bolt granny gear holding up?


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## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

*conrad here, ti version going strong*

my ti 27 tooth going strong, no issues...bike being used 10-12hrs per week....no signs of wear.....wet winter here....spring time now....more rain....g8 product.....40 ti not used as much but holding up well to local races....big gear mashing....:thumbsup:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

rockhound said:


> Hey Nino, how is the steel 27t 5 bolt granny gear holding up?


I'm definitly NOT riding around with that steel ring! I do use the aluminium version which is holding up great.no problems at all at 1/3 the weight


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## Chasintrane (Jun 1, 2006)

*Shimano XTR m960 rings 26-37*

Thanks Mattias. The rings look great and are nice and light. I'll post up some weights when the spacers come in and I bolt them up for good. I should be ordering a ti set from you as soon as I find out how this combination works for me. Might want a 25 small ring for all the climbing I do.



I ordered some 2.2mm spacers and some 3mm spacers. Not sure which will work best yet. Had to get a bag of 20 each, so if anybody wants 4 or 5 spacers without having to buy a whole bag, let me know. I wouldn't mind recouping some of the $ spent.

The picture below shows the rings without the spacers. As you know, the inner XTR m960 rings have spacing built into them.


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## The_Stig (Jul 24, 2008)

How much for a set of those pully wheels and can I get them in blue?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*black anodizing*

I just thought i show you guys what it looks like when Mattias rings get black anodized....i think the "homemade"-look is gone.In black they look much better on my crankset:thumbsup:

Mattias-think about anodizing!


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Matthias, can you make compact 34/50 ring replacement for my Shimano FC-R600 road cranks?

Currently, the cranks weigh 843g. Looks like the big ring could use more cutouts!


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## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

*Why black?*

Now any colour is possible.......blue & gold always appeal to me. Bring back the ano rings I say :thumbsup: not sure about pink though.....:nono:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

conrad said:


> Now any colour is possible.......blue & gold always appeal to me. Bring back the ano rings I say :thumbsup: not sure about pink though.....:nono:


no - i hated those colours already in the 90s when all was coloured. Definitely a no-go for me.


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

Matt, I sent a email asking questions about some specific parts. Lete me know as soon as you have a minute of time.

Also the Lightning crank with the anodized rings. Is this the weight with the BB? The rings do look good. Nino, what do you mean i hated those colours already in the 90s when all was coloured?. Many like color. Besides the lightning bolt logo looks really retro cheap to me, but that's just a personal opinion, each to their own, eh?


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## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

*each to their own*

Yes you r right for you colour is a no go.......:thumbsup: for the rest of us a spot of colour is g8....tasteful of course.... mind you some of my older well used parts are fading badly,,,,,,,kooka cranks for 1:madman: 
my ti frame needs a spot of colour or it's just grey with black parts.......:nono: too dull... a spot of colour attracts attention.....isn't that what we are about...standing out from the crowd:thumbsup: .
conrad


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

conrad said:


> Yes you r right for you colour is a no go.......:thumbsup: for the rest of us a spot of colour is g8....tasteful of course.... mind you some of my older well used parts are fading badly,,,,,,,kooka cranks for 1:madman:
> my ti frame needs a spot of colour or it's just grey with black parts.......:nono: too dull... a spot of colour attracts attention.....isn't that what we are about...standing out from the crowd:thumbsup: .
> conrad


Conrad-i agree!
But i want to be able to select where and what colour i want. If i have to buy parts that come in a colour it limits you. Would those gold RF fit my bike? No. It would have to be black and red....that's what SRAM is trying to do right now with offering their stuff in various colours...i on the other hand prefer to select MY wished colour and not to buy a disco-style item that afterwards asks for all kinds of modifications on the rest of my bike. I would have no problems to fit golden rings on my Lightning cranks. You can have them anodized in whatever colour you like.

That's why i was trying to tell Mattias he should offer the service of anodizing his rings.This would attract more people and the rings don't look as "homemade" anymore.They look more exclusive anodized. But it sure doesn't have to be black only-you are right.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

crazy8 said:


> Also the Lightning crank with the anodized rings. Is this the weight with the BB? The rings do look good. Nino, what do you mean i hated those colours already in the 90s when all was coloured?. Many like color. Besides the lightning bolt logo looks really retro cheap to me


Sure-that's the complete weight including BB and bolts..everything!

I don't like the logo either and my next order has all cranks without any logo...


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

I have wanted to do this to XTR 960's but have not had the cash to find a good used set. Do you have final weight of the crank only? Curious how much was lost cutting the big ring tabs off.

G



Chasintrane said:


> Thanks Mattias. The rings look great and are nice and light. I'll post up some weights when the spacers come in and I bolt them up for good. I should be ordering a ti set from you as soon as I find out how this combination works for me. Might want a 25 small ring for all the climbing I do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

*XTR 960 Modified's Weight*

Actual weight of XTR 175mm arms only is 536g. When I modify a set of these the weight varies a bit but around 480g. A complete set with 32t Blackspireand BB averages around 640g.


G-Live said:


> I have wanted to do this to XTR 960's but have not had the cash to find a good used set. Do you have final weight of the crank only? Curious how much was lost cutting the big ring tabs off.
> 
> G


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Latest stuff in my mailbox today.

Guess what?

Yes it´s a 10mm thick 7075-T6 spider, cutted in a water jet machine, prior all machining.
Let us see when I find some free time.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww


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## fernandoj (Mar 19, 2008)

insane in the membraneeeeee!!!! 

BTW the R-600 crankset weights 954 grams with BB!


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## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

*good points nino*

I like the colour blue (CK head set & track pearls cable outers) gold is ok for chain ring bolts not BB or head sets. An inner chain ring in blue with an outer in black with gold bolts looks the best, gold chain rings again is a bit much...if I wanted a gold bike I would get a GT... if I was fast enough to win won....:eekster: no chance of that happening.
Give the customer a choice......that's what makes CK soo good...quailty & a colour choice:thumbsup:


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=556989


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

One guy ordered 29-42 of this style, so we will see if it works well or not.


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## yamapro (Aug 9, 2009)

So, Im planning on building a 2x9 settup and was hoping to run some of Mattias light rings prob a 42/27. My question is what crank and bb should I use? I have a 09 Scott Genius and am trying to get it light as possible but retain some strength. Weight on the cranks is a big concern but Im not really interested in Carbon so what is the best choice for very light and fairly stiff cranks and light ceramic bb.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

yamapro said:


> So, Im planning on building a 2x9 settup and was hoping to run some of Mattias light rings prob a 42/27. My question is what crank and bb should I use? I have a 09 Scott Genius and am trying to get it light as possible but retain some strength. Weight on the cranks is a big concern but Im not really interested in Carbon so what is the best choice for very light and fairly stiff cranks and light ceramic bb.


Light al cranks - hollowgram si, light carbon cranks Lightnings, uber expensive and light Claviculas.

Extralite is a alternative, cheaper than new hollowgrams.


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## yamapro (Aug 9, 2009)

Thanks Mattias, I will give you a shout as soon as I get the cranks...


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

If your wanting light weight but don't care for carbon then you might check this set out or a set of Aerozine arms.



yamapro said:


> So, Im planning on building a 2x9 settup and was hoping to run some of Mattias light rings prob a 42/27. My question is what crank and bb should I use? I have a 09 Scott Genius and am trying to get it light as possible but retain some strength. Weight on the cranks is a big concern but Im not really interested in Carbon so what is the best choice for very light and fairly stiff cranks and light ceramic bb.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 25, 2009)

Mattias, I sent you an email sometime yesterday... looking forward to hearing back


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Here is some pictures for a 10S megarange cassette add-on for a MTBer somewhere in Russia/Finland.


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Mattias- Sent you a PM last week...

Any plans to make more Ti pulley wheels for an X0 RD?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

DavidR1, sorry if I haven´t replied, I make pulleys for X.0, I did it on a friends Rush with 2008 X.0 without problem.

Shifts well and everything like that.

Mail me at [email protected], better than PM.


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## yamapro (Aug 9, 2009)

crazy8 said:


> If your wanting light weight but don't care for carbon then you might check this set out or a set of Aerozine arms.


I don't see these on their website, what are they? Weight?


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## crazy8 (Apr 21, 2009)

*Light Weight Aluminum Crank-sets*

The seets on my site are ones that were custom built and sold, I make set to order using the XTR 960, XT 760, and Aerozine crank arms. Options of rings bearings and color are available.

The set pictured are XTR 960 modified for 2X or SS. The set as shown with the Mattias 27/42 rings and BB weighed 672grams.

You can check this link to a set of Aerozine arms with a 27/42 by Mattias and BB that weighed 593grams.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=5969602&postcount=311

Both sets were made for Mattias.



yamapro said:


> I don't see these on their website, what are they? Weight?


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## schuster_md (May 18, 2007)

I would like to convert my XTR 11-34T 9 spd cassette to 9 speeds 11-*36*T
Mattias: what do you think to ad a Ti 36T cog to the XTR cassette? I found a guy that sells an alu 36T that can be installed, removing one of the smaller cogs


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

I just put my set of black anodized 27/40 Hellöre rings on my RF Next LPs....so here's a low-budget 2x9 crankset with nice weight: 628g complete!

And to my surprise the big ring shifts great! I didn't expect it since there is no shifting ramps/pins at all. But to my surprise it shifts absolutely flawless. So far i see no need for any modifications. Even more surprisinng is it since i didn't even re-adjust the front derailleurs height after putting the smaller 40t ring (i used 42 up to now)...Anyway - it shifts perfect, no hesitation at all.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

That´s good news for me to hear.
I had good shifting success with my own combos, I will try Hollowgram Si with my rings to see if they work good for me.


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## raceer2 (Jul 21, 2007)

My Ti has been shifting awesome for the past year even with my minimal riding these days. shows very little, if at all wear too !

Who says you need ramps, pins 

Great work mattias !


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Thanks Raceer2, I´m very busy at only drawing and manufacturing chainrings nowadays, very little time to R&D, I´m thankful to all who wants to pay and try my stuff and report all failures and all success stories make me happy and I want make a better product with a more even quality.
Passed 200+ chainrings recently


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Some more, two chainrings have a lot more tuning potential but I have to develop these more.
They aren´t round, more oval per customer´s wish.


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

I just got back from a ride on my mattias chainring. this ti chainring probably has about 300 miles on it (used in a 1x9 setup). I was standing up and pedaling hard in the easiest cog and the chain broke, so i fixed it and kept going. It fell off again almost immediately. I put it back on and shifted the chain down 3 or 4 cogs, so that the chain was more in a straight line with the cogs and chainring. I started again and it took about 10 pedal strokes before the ring bent....


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Jordan, hope you are OK?
Let me know more how you did manage bend the chainring AFTER you break the chain?.
I haven´t seen a failure like that on my chainrings.

Let me see a side picture.


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

yes I'm fine thank you, i will take another pic tomorrow,

after the chain broke i repaired it and kept riding. i have a 1x9 setup with 11-34 cassette without a chain guide and the chain was on the 34t cog after it was repaired. once i started pedaling again, it took 1 pedal stroke and the chain fell off. When i bent down to put the chain back on again i noticed the bend. i don't know whether i hit a rock or the torque from the chain bent it, but its definitely toast. 

and btw, before the ring bent it was the best single ring i had ever used, it was so good at holding the chain on that i didn't need a chain guide and it never fell off


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Good to hear, this chainring that you bought from me?
Quite light at approx 25 grams I think especially in titanium.

Mail me wth your suggestion to solve this problem.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

I think the broken chain might have had more to do with bending the ring than the ring itself. 

Usually all the load we apply on the cranks gets distributed all around the chainring where the chain sits on. So you have at least 3 arms of the chainrings transferring the momentum .Now the moment the chain snapped you ended up having only a couple of teeth transferring all the momentum .It seems the chainrings wasn't strong enough to support all the load that got stressed on this little area so it got bent...

I think that's really a coincidence and has nothing to do with the chainring itself but rather with the fact that the chain snapped.


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

yes i bought this from you. here are the other pics


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## Ninko (Jul 19, 2006)

Almost certainly due to the broken chain or losened chainringbolts.
When the chain breaks it can get jammed somewhere between the ring... 
And ofcourse you need to watch out a bit with superlight rings riding them in the big ring and on the big cog. Crossing the chain this much with a thin chainring isn't a great idea I think...


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

wouldn't worry about it... i bent a 36t shimano xt chainring from riding crosschained, and that sucker was HEAVY.


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## fernandoj (Mar 19, 2008)

42-31-21 (48-27-20 g. aprox.) for 94/58mm


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## What&son (Jan 13, 2004)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> By the way I made my own tool for XTR M950, 952 BB which is far much better precision I´ve seen.
> 
> I will make my own tools, slowly but it´s been more and more.


Hi Mattias,
If you build the tool for removing the bearing race of the 960 xtr freehub (to access freehub internals for servicing) I´ll buy one. I´m considering making one myself...but I should order it from a workshop not bike related. I have made some 3d drawings with some possible solutions with manufacturing in mind...If you´re interested I´ll send them to you
cheers


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

What&son said:


> Hi Mattias,
> If you build the tool for removing the bearing race of the 960 xtr freehub (to access freehub internals for servicing) I´ll buy one. I´m considering making one myself...but I should order it from a workshop not bike related. I have made some 3d drawings with some possible solutions with manufacturing in mind...If you´re interested I´ll send them to you
> cheers


Mail me at mattias @ hellore.se


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## oldassracer (Mar 26, 2009)

hi- Great work!
can you do 10 spd rings for sram xx ?

How about making some speen type top pull adapters from the Ti plate leftovers?
seems to be plenty of material left behind after cutting the round rings

Please email me
thanks


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Mattias,

Not sure if you're still watching this thread, but I emailed you earlier this week with no response. Sorry, but another broken chainring. Please email or PM me.

Thanks,
Mark


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

bikeny said:


> Mattias,
> 
> Not sure if you're still watching this thread, but I emailed you earlier this week with no response. Sorry, but another broken chainring. Please email or PM me.
> 
> ...


he gets to pm's faster. pm him


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