# Why do we still have 30.9 and 31.6mm seattubes?



## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

In the past I reckon there could've been sound manufacturing reasons that perhaps outweighed the small inconvenience of having two so similar seat post diameters. They were cheap enough to replace anyway.

Now with dropper post that clearly can't be the case any more. Having two seat post diameters only 0.7mm apart is a mayor and unjustifiable annoyance in today's biking age. It's a major and totally unnecessary inconvenience that can render a few hundred quid dropper useless when switching frames. The only dropper that can switch between the two are the Bikeyoke's. And no I don't consider the 0.7mm adapters a good alternative when we can just settle on a single diameter.

How come manufacturers still get off the hook for this? Why are bike sites and reviewers not coming down hard on this?


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## dsciulli19 (Apr 14, 2014)

Would be great if we could just settle on a "larger" an a "Smaller" seat tube diameter and call it a day, wouldn't it?


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

dsciulli19 said:


> Would be great if we could just settle on a "larger" an a "Smaller" seat tube diameter and call it a day, wouldn't it?


I think it's fine and more likely if at least it came down to three: 
27.2mm for XC
31.6mm for the majority
34.9mm for the rest.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Just get the smaller size (in this case 30.9) and use a shim when needed. I’ve been doing that for years. Pretty much a non-issue in my book.

But yeah, kind of silly. Though not much different (and easier to accommodate) than the ever changing axle/hub standards and the BB standard of the week.


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## sherwin24 (Jul 23, 2010)

I'm guessing it comes down to frame material, tube diameter, wall thicknesses, intended feel of the ride by the designer, supply chain and what tube manufacturer's have available and tuned to a certain characteristic. The.7mm might seem trivial but it may be the difference between butted, double butted, etc top tube matching up correctly.

I agree it can be a pain, but even some of the "outdated tech" in the industry still offers some of the refinement that we enjoy in bikes.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Each manufacturer is probably thinking their standard is best and that the other manufacturers should change. Also, changing your standard has a cost associated with it. It's not free.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

kapusta said:


> Just get the smaller size (in this case 30.9) and use a shim when needed. I've been doing that for years. Pretty much a non-issue in my book.
> 
> But yeah, kind of silly. Though not much different (and easier to accommodate) than the ever changing axle/hub standards and the BB standard of the week.


That doensn't help if the complete bike you bought came with a 31.6mm dropper and you want to switch it over to a 30.9mm frame.



MSU Alum said:


> Each manufacturer is probably thinking their standard is best and that the other manufacturers should change. Also, changing your standard has a cost associated with it. It's not free.


I think this is the case and because, users, sites and reviews don't call them out on it, they get away with it.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

kapusta said:


> Just get the smaller size (in this case 30.9) and use a shim when needed. I've been doing that for years. Pretty much a non-issue in my book.


^^^ This is what I do. I don't own a 31.6 dropper post anymore. I donated my last one to the local community bicycle center and bought a [better, longer] 30.9 post + shim. If I'd been unwilling to donate the 31.6, I'd have sold it.
=sParty


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

CS645 said:


> That doensn't help if the complete bike you bought came with a 31.6mm dropper and you want to switch it over to a 30.9mm frame.
> 
> I think this is the case and because, users, sites and reviews don't call them out on it, they get away with it.


Sell the post as a take off buy a smaller one and you're done.


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

TwoTone said:


> Sell the post as a take off buy a smaller one and you're done.


Yes, sell the one you have probably maintained and know will function for years and buy another second hand which you don't know the internal condition of for the same money. Or buy a new one and loose a few hundred quid just so the industry can maintain a 0.7mm difference... 

That attitude allows this annoyance to continue.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Anyone want to buy a 34.9 Dropper?


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

CS645 said:


> That doensn't help if the complete bike you bought came with a 31.6mm dropper and you want to switch it over to a 30.9mm frame.
> 
> I think this is the case and because, users, sites and reviews don't call them out on it, they get away with it.


Then don't buy a bike with a 31.6mm seat tube that comes with a 31.6mm dropper. That would be the definition of "not letting them get away with it".


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

CS645 said:


> That attitude allows this annoyance to continue.


Annoyance? What annoyance?
Think: economic stimulus.  
=sParty


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

Is there a new bike on the market today over $2500 that doesn't come with a dropper? Most new bikes have a dropper now, so the size of an old one vs the new seat tube really isn't something to complain about. Also, if you're spending $2500 more on a new bike, is a $200 dropper really that big of expense to add?


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

kapusta said:


> Then don't buy a bike with a 31.6mm seat tube that comes with a 31.6mm dropper. That would be the definition of "not letting them get away with it".


As if that's going to make a difference.



NorCal_In_AZ said:


> Is there a new bike on the market today over $2500 that doesn't come with a dropper? Most new bikes have a dropper now, so the size of an old one vs the new seat tube really isn't something to complain about. Also, if you're spending $2500 more on a new bike, is a $200 dropper really that big of expense to add?


$200 for a 0.7mm difference. Yeah, excellent return of investment. I see most of you guys are more interested in rufflin up somebodies feathers rather than having a sensible discussion and calling out the industry for maintaining questionable practises, so nevermind.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Wait, don’t go. I never said I disagree with you. In fact I do agree with you. That’s why I only buy 30.9 droppers and refuse to buy any other diameter posts. I’m steering the industry with my wallet.
=sParty


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

kapusta said:


> Then don't buy a bike with a 31.6mm seat tube that comes with a 31.6mm dropper. That would be the definition of "not letting them get away with it".





CS645 said:


> As if that's going to make a difference.





CS645 said:


> I see most of you guys are more interested in rufflin up somebodies feathers rather than having a sensible discussion and calling out the industry for maintaining questionable practises, so nevermind.


You say you want to call out the industry for something you don't like, and when I suggest the one thing that actually DOES make companies pay attention and change what they sell, you dismiss it as not making a difference.

At it absolutely WILL make a difference to you, as it will not be your problem.

What are you suggesting? Industrial sabotage? Louder whining?


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

If you were accustomed to looking at old steel road bikes you would be grateful every day there are only two sizes.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

CS645 said:


> $200 for a 0.7mm difference. Yeah, excellent return of investment. I see most of you guys are more interested in rufflin up somebodies feathers rather than having a sensible discussion and calling out the industry for maintaining questionable practises, so nevermind.


I'm having a sensible discussion, you're getting upset because people are challenging your ideas. A discussion is you state an opinion, I counter. Those points are discussed. Its seems to me you want a circle jerk, where you state your opinion, and everyone joins in and strokes your ego stating how right you are.

I said that most new bikes (in a price range that most of us buy bikes in) come with a dropper post. So if your new bike comes with a dropper, you're not spending another $200, even if the size if different. If you do want to change the dropper out, $200 for a dropper post on a $2500 bike is only 8% more cost, a $3500 bike its only 5%. 5% increase in cost to get something that makes a huge difference in the way I enjoy my bike is a minimal cost.

Now as to why I don't think bitching about the industry or standards on anything is helpful. FREE MARKET. If we demand and regulate the industry to make 31.6 seat tubes (use any standard you want) the standard, then every company no longer can control their competitive cost of that spec. However, if the consumers of the market only buy bikes with 31.6 seat tubes, and one or two manufactures don't change, they won't sell bikes and they'll loose business. Free to grow, free to fail, free market.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I don't think your evil plan to destroy bike manufacturers who use anything other than your chosen seat tube diameter is going to work.

It's kinda the same reason that every manufacturer uses different tubing shapes, diameters, thicknesses, etc elsewhere on their bikes. It all plays a role in how the bike rides, and how the manufacturer wants the bike to ride.

At the consumer end, I don't see it making a lick of difference. I've never been able to just swap dropper posts between frames at will, and it's nothing to do with diameter. It's because dropper post lengths vary notably, and finding one that fits me and my frame is paramount. What that means is every frame gets its own dropper post, anyway. With the trend these days for longer dropper posts, quite a few manufacturers spec longer dropper posts on their bikes than fit me. So I have to replace the dropper post with a shorter one right out of the gate. I get the diameter that fits right out of the gate.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

I find the variation in what lengths frames will accept to be way more annoying than the diameter issue. Like others here have said, you can buy a 30.9 and run a shim (which I am currently doing) and it's not a big deal. What is a big deal, is buying a new frame and finding out that your 170mm dropper won't fit because the seat tube kink is unreasonably high up or the bottle boss is in the way. At least with diamter issues you can sometimes solve it with a shim. With length issues you're just hosed.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

LMAO at 'call out the industry'.

What the hell does that even mean?


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## jeph (Apr 3, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> LMAO at 'call out the industry'.
> 
> What the hell does that even mean?


I heard from a friend who used to be in the bike industry that this was the "shanghai suprise." something to the effect that some large bike MFG got a boat load of wrong sized seat post so they built there frames around that. . 
not sure if true but seem plausible. 
J


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## CS645 (Dec 9, 2011)

kapusta said:


> You say you want to call out the industry for something you don't like, and when I suggest the one thing that actually DOES make companies pay attention and change what they sell, you dismiss it as not making a difference.
> 
> At it absolutely WILL make a difference to you, as it will not be your problem.
> 
> What are you suggesting? Industrial sabotage? Louder whining?


I've allready said what I want. I want reviewers to upon their mouths about it so the general bike community gets more aware and public acceptance of this **** goes away. What I do or don't buy gonna change jack ****.



Darth Lefty said:


> If you were accustomed to looking at old steel road bikes you would be grateful every day there are only two sizes.


I think indeed tubular metal bikes from the past are the reason we now have this situation. Then it made sense, now not so much.



NorCal_In_AZ said:


> I'm having a sensible discussion, you're getting upset because people are challenging your ideas. A discussion is you state an opinion, I counter. Those points are discussed. Its seems to me you want a circle jerk, where you state your opinion, and everyone joins in and strokes your ego stating how right you are.
> 
> I said that most new bikes (in a price range that most of us buy bikes in) come with a dropper post. So if your new bike comes with a dropper, you're not spending another $200, even if the size if different. If you do want to change the dropper out, $200 for a dropper post on a $2500 bike is only 8% more cost, a $3500 bike its only 5%. 5% increase in cost to get something that makes a huge difference in the way I enjoy my bike is a minimal cost.
> 
> Now as to why I don't think bitching about the industry or standards on anything is helpful. FREE MARKET. If we demand and regulate the industry to make 31.6 seat tubes (use any standard you want) the standard, then every company no longer can control their competitive cost of that spec. However, if the consumers of the market only buy bikes with 31.6 seat tubes, and one or two manufactures don't change, they won't sell bikes and they'll loose business. Free to grow, free to fail, free market.


You are right, I am being an ass (rough week). But is not so much my ego, but the desire that this situation is changed and the disappointment of seeing the changes of that happening are zero by the looks of the most reactions.

I don't think it's useful if I ***** about it, but not that's the same for people in bike journalism. About free market, sometimes the free market needs some small nudges in the right direction.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

I think you're catching a lot of flack here because it seems like a really weird battle to pick. Of all the annoying standards floating around and all of the industry changes, seat post diameter seems like small potatoes. I'd rather buy a $200 dropper to fit my new frame than a $1000 wheelset when things move to another rear hub standard (incoming super boost). What about headsets? Handlebar and stem diameters? Bottom brackets? The list goes on and on.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> I think you're catching a lot of flack here because it seems like a really weird battle to pick. Of all the annoying standards floating around and all of the industry changes, seat post diameter seems like small potatoes. I'd rather buy a $200 dropper to fit my new frame than a $1000 wheelset when things move to another rear hub standard (incoming super boost). What about headsets? Handlebar and stem diameters? Bottom brackets? The list goes on and on.


Beat me to it.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

As long as we're complaining...
How about the industry develop a better mechanical method of supporting a device that moves up & down (aka dropper post) than having it be potentially constricted by a latitudinal clamp (aka seatpost collar)?
If wishes were wings, pigs would fly.
=sParty


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Sparticus said:


> As long as we're complaining...
> How about the industry develop a better mechanical method of supporting a device that moves up & down (aka dropper post) than having it be potentially constricted by a latitudinal clamp (aka seatpost collar)?
> If wishes were wings, pigs would fly.
> =sParty


Have you tried tig welding your dropper to the top of the seat tube? That could work.....


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

CS645 said:


> Yes, sell the one you have probably maintained and know will function for years and buy another second hand which you don't know the internal condition of for the same money. Or buy a new one and loose a few hundred quid just so the industry can maintain a 0.7mm difference...
> 
> That attitude allows this annoyance to continue.


Your whining won't change anything.

Could have bought the bike and had them switch out the dropper for a standard seat posts.

So many ways to solve the issue, but whining on a forum thinking change will come- least effective.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Darth Lefty said:


> If you were accustomed to looking at old steel road bikes you would be grateful every day there are only two sizes.


For realz. Or even older mtb hardtails. So many sizes.

Seatpost diameter debates are not really on my radar but it did seem like some older generation droppers tended to be more reliable in the 31.6 vs. 30.9. Missed it by that much.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Calling out “the industry” is a pointless exercise. Its basically saying “someone oughta....”

Whenever people complain about “the industry” I always wonder who exactly they are talking about. Do they think there is some central committee that all the bike shops and manufacturers report to? Expecting "the industry" to cooperatively work something out like this brings the term "herding cats" to mind, But it is not even that.... its like asking cats to herd themselves.

If you have an actaul solution, say what it is. In this case, I ASSUME it would be to phase out 31.6. And if that is the case the best way to do so is encourage people why they should not buy it.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

kapusta said:


> Calling out "the industry" is a pointless exercise. Its basically saying "someone oughta...."
> 
> Whenever people complain about "the industry" I always wonder who exactly they are talking about. Do they think there is some central committee that all the bike shops and manufacturers report to? Expecting "the industry" to cooperatively work something out like this brings the term "herding cats" to mind, But it is not even that.... its like asking cats to herd themselves.
> 
> If you have an actaul solution, say what it is. In this case, I ASSUME it would be to phase out 31.6. And if that is the case the best way to do so is encourage people why they should not buy it.


I offered a potential solution to the "problem" I mentioned previously in this thread. It was not embraced.
I quoted the word problem because not everyone considers the seatpost clamping issue a problem. Hence the lackluster response to my solution.

As to your question about defining who "the industry" is, I'd say this. I expect anyone and everyone who works to design & create components to take on this responsibility. Not all together as a team but rather as competitors striving to build a better mousetrap. 
=sParty


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Harold and SingleSpeedSteven make a good point: Diameter is just one aspect. Optimum length and drop is likely to change from one frame to the next for a number of reasons. My Wednesday and 5-Spot have the same seat tube diameter, but the post in the Wednesday is too long for the 5-Spot, and the one in the 5-Spot leaves a bit of drop on the table when used on the Wednesday.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> I offered a potential solution to the "problem" I mentioned previously in this thread. It was not embraced.


 I believe your solution is the same one I described, no? Not buying 31.6?



Sparticus said:


> As to your question about defining who "the industry" is, I'd say this. I expect anyone and everyone who works to design & create components to take on this responsibility. Not all together as a team but rather as competitors striving to build a better mousetrap.
> =sParty


I think individual designer all trying to build the best mountrap is why we have so many different mousetraps. (mousetrap = standard, in this case). There are significant benefits from having many companies competing for the best design..... but creating uniform standards is not one of them.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Sparticus said:


> I offered a potential solution to the "problem" I mentioned previously in this thread. It was not embraced.
> I quoted the word problem because not everyone considers the seatpost clamping issue a problem. Hence the lackluster response to my solution.
> 
> As to your question about defining who "the industry" is, I'd say this. I expect anyone and everyone who works to design & create components to take on this responsibility. Not all together as a team but rather as competitors striving to build a better mousetrap.
> =sParty


The "better mousetrap" that shows the most potential in my eyes is the frame-integrated dropper. Done right, it could solve a lot of these "problems". Of course there'll be several iterations along the way...

For now, my OneUp works great and only cost about $100 (in 30.9, of course  ).


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

I think the real solution is to do away with seat tubes altogether...


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

kapusta said:


> I believe your solution is the same one I described, no? Not buying 31.6?


No, although like you I don't buy 31.6.

First I'll describe the problem (if indeed one exists - apparently opinions on this subject vary).

To optimize performance, the dropper post wants to move up and down as freely as possible. At the same time the bike's seat collar wants the seatpost to not slip, so there's a tendency for the rider or mechanic to tighten the seat clamp as tight as is appropriate. Which typically means as tight as possible. Often there's a fine line between "appropriate" and too tight for the dropper to go up and down freely.

My inelegant solution would be to employ seatpost spacers that would function virtually identically to the way stem spacers work.

The seatpost spacers would be placed on the static portion of the dropper between the top of the frame's seat collar and take up the space betweeen the seat clamp and the underside of the dropper post's collar at the top of its static section. The seatpost spacers to bear most of the weight of the rider and leave the seat clamp with little more to do than keep the saddle pointed forward. The seatpost spacers would be available in various thicknesses down to 1mm to allow fine tuning of post height.

It seems that some folks think this is a solution in search of a problem. That's fine, I just wish someone would come up with a better mousetr... er, solution, because I'm a heavier rider (200# kitted) so tight enough and too tight are separated by a fine line for me. I'd like to see an improvement in the status quo.
=sParty


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

@Sparticus I think you're also forgetting the other function of a seatpost clamp - preventing rotation. With your idea, you'd need some sort of shaping to prevent rotation (square, oval, octagon, amoeba, etc). Then you'd have to get the manufacturers to agree on what shape to use. Next, what's your solution to keep the post from slipping out when you don't want it to when you lift/hold it by the seat/seatpost, crash, do flips, etc?

Completely integrated into the frame might be one option the way some road and tri bikes handle it. But that creates a whole other set of problems.


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## diamondback1x9 (Dec 21, 2020)

what i don't understand is why you would have a seat clamp diameter that no one else uses! 35.6 on my marin. they don't even sell the seat clamp for a replacement. you have to get a $32 bike yoke squeezy clamp that isn't even made in America...


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Harold said:


> @Sparticus I think you're also forgetting the other function of a seatpost clamp - preventing rotation. With your idea, you'd need some sort of shaping to prevent rotation (square, oval, octagon, amoeba, etc). Then you'd have to get the manufacturers to agree on what shape to use. Next, what's your solution to keep the post from slipping out when you don't want it to when you lift/hold it by the seat/seatpost, crash, do flips, etc?
> 
> Completely integrated into the frame might be one option the way some road and tri bikes handle it. But that creates a whole other set of problems.


Harold, I'm not sure you read everything I wrote. The seat clamp would stay, it just wouldn't have to be tightened to the point where it nearly begins to restrict up / down movement of the dropper.
=sParty


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> No, although like you I don't buy 31.6.
> 
> First I'll describe the problem (if indeed one exists - apparently opinions on this subject vary).
> 
> ...


I think your idea has some merit. I think that could be an idea for posts that suffer from the issue you mention. Some posts don't, others do. One of my PNW posts has a very fine line between the post slipping and the post not working, and that is WITH carbon paste. Without carbon paste, forget it. And I am only 175 lbs. OTOH, the other PNW post has a decent range of torque that works., and my old GD can be tightened all you want with no issues. But in any event, it would free up one design constraint (needing to slide while being tightly clamped).

But how does this address the OPs issue?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

kapusta said:


> But how does this address the OPs issue?


It doesn't. Got sidetracked on the "better mousetrap" tangent.
=sParty


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Could always just throw the dropper posts on the shitheap and go static. Works for me.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

diamondback1x9 said:


> what i don't understand is why you would have a seat clamp diameter that no one else uses! 35.6 on my marin. they don't even sell the seat clamp for a replacement. you have to get a $32 bike yoke squeezy clamp that isn't even made in America...


Your bike isn't made in the USA. who cares where the seat post clamp comes from?



Sparticus said:


> Harold, I'm not sure you read everything I wrote. The seat clamp would stay, it just wouldn't have to be tightened to the point where it nearly begins to restrict up / down movement of the dropper.
> =sParty


Ah, I missed that part.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> It doesn't. Got sidetracked on the "better mousetrap" tangent.
> =sParty


Sorry, I'm not good at keeping up.


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## diamondback1x9 (Dec 21, 2020)

Harold said:


> Your bike isn't made in the USA. who cares where the seat post clamp comes from?
> 
> Ah, I missed that part.


i know. i cant explain it, it just matters to me. before i bought the sq2 2 weeks ago i was looking at a pedalhead with 90% American parts (excluding cranks, cassette, shifting mech, and tires). after looking at the price of just the frame, fork and bb, i decided that build could wait till i didn't need a bike ASAP(my old hard tail is for sale).


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

diamondback1x9 said:


> a pedalhead with 90% American parts (excluding cranks, cassette, shifting mech, and tires).


So chain, rims, hubs, spokes, headset, BB, fork,seat, pedals, bars, stem, brakes and seatpost on the Pedalhead are all US made?
I'm thinking it's pretty unlikely that any of them are, unless you're doing a highly customized build.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

diamondback1x9 said:


> i know. i cant explain it, it just matters to me. before i bought the sq2 2 weeks ago i was looking at a pedalhead with 90% American parts (excluding cranks, cassette, shifting mech, and tires). after looking at the price of just the frame, fork and bb, i decided that build could wait till i didn't need a bike ASAP(my old hard tail is for sale).


That's pretty ridiculous, really, and my whole point. If beggars can't be choosers elsewhere when it comes to the bike you buy, then it's utterly pointless to whine about the seat post clamp.

Now I agree that it's pretty ridiculous for Marin to be using a totally different tube size than just about everybody else on the market, my issue is more related to why they did something that's practically a one-off for that bike? That's very nearly (not quite, but close enough) using proprietary parts "just because" and so now if the one manufacturer making a compatible part decides to stop producing it, then you're SOL if you break something.

Lots of examples of this in the bike industry. Most recent one is the Trek Supercaliber and its proprietary rear shock. Like the Specialized Epic, before it, there will eventually be a bunch of expensive paperweights in the used bike market, with sellers attempting to take advantage of buyers who don't know that you can't get that shock serviced anymore.


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## diamondback1x9 (Dec 21, 2020)

slapheadmofo said:


> So chain, rims, hubs, spokes, headset, BB, fork,seat, pedals, bars, stem, brakes and seatpost on the Pedalhead are all US made?
> I'm thinking it's pretty unlikely..


oops, forgot the brakes and seat post/seat. everything else is made in the us of a(i9 wheels, hubs, cane creek for suspension, headset from wolftooth, etc).





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Harold said:


> That's pretty ridiculous, really, and my whole point. If beggars can't be choosers elsewhere when it comes to the bike you buy, then it's utterly pointless to whine about the seat post clamp.
> 
> Now I agree that it's pretty ridiculous for Marin to be using a totally different tube size than just about everybody else on the market, my issue is more related to why they did something that's practically a one-off for that bike? That's very nearly (not quite, but close enough) using proprietary parts "just because" and so now if the one manufacturer making a compatible part decides to stop producing it, then you're SOL if you break something.
> 
> Lots of examples of this in the bike industry. Most recent one is the Trek Supercaliber and its proprietary rear shock. Like the Specialized Epic, before it, there will eventually be a bunch of expensive paperweights in the used bike market, with sellers attempting to take advantage of buyers who don't know that you can't get that shock serviced anymore.


yeah, i took the seat clamp off mine and it's a stretched 35mm. hopefully it doesn't snap in the cold.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

slapheadmofo said:


> So chain, rims, hubs, spokes, headset, BB, ,seat, pedals, bars, stem, brakes and seatpost on the Pedalhead are all US made?
> I'm thinking it's pretty unlikely..


My Pedalhead isn't 90% USA made.

I've got the frame (GG), fork (MRP), hubs (i9), stem (i9).


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

diamondback1x9 said:


> oops, forgot the brakes and seat post everything else is (i9 wheels, hubs, cane creek for suspension, headset from wolftooth, etc).


CC isn't actually made in the USA. their facility is close to me, and I've been inside. They assemble stuff there, but they do most manufacturing elsewhere. i9 rims aren't usa made. i9 makes hubs and their aluminum system spokes in house (along with stems). i9 is even closer to me, and I've been inside their factory, as well. And ridden their pump track.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Yeah, it's a PIA (and wallet) to try to do an all-American build.


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## diamondback1x9 (Dec 21, 2020)

Harold said:


> CC isn't actually made in the USA. their facility is close to me, and I've been inside. They assemble stuff there, but they do most manufacturing elsewhere. i9 rims aren't usa made. i9 makes hubs and their aluminum system spokes in house (along with stems). i9 is even closer to me, and I've been inside their factory, as well. And ridden their pump track.


...
oof, guess i was too excited reading about the helm that i missed the difference between assembled and manufactured... that's annoying


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

It's already being done by some





RAD







www.bmc-switzerland.com


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## Fairbanks007 (Sep 5, 2009)

kapusta said:


> Just get the smaller size (in this case 30.9) and use a shim when needed. I've been doing that for years. Pretty much a non-issue in my book.
> 
> But yeah, kind of silly. Though not much different (and easier to accommodate) than the ever changing axle/hub standards and the BB standard of the week.


I was wondering how long it would take before someone said this. Post #4. You did not disappoint, sir. Well done.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

TwoTone said:


> It's already being done by some
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is indeed rad. I won't be investing in on anytime soon, but I won't be surprised if other bike manufacturers copy it or develop something similar or if RAD or something similar becomes the next big change that forces cutting edge riders to buy new bikes.
It would be just one more thing in a long line of components / frame options that did so... oversize headsets, thru-axles, disc brakes, stealth dropper routing, wide tires, etc., etc., etc.
=sParty


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> That is indeed rad. I won't be investing in on anytime soon, but I won't be surprised if other bike manufacturers copy it or develop something similar or if RAD or something similar becomes the next big change that forces cutting edge riders to buy new bikes.
> It would be just one more thing in a long line of components / frame options that did so... oversize headsets, thru-axles, disc brakes, stealth dropper routing, wide tires, etc., etc., etc.
> =sParty


I don't know how keen I would be on integrating the most expensive component of the bike (the frame) with the one most likely to crap the bed (dropper post).

Not ruling it out, but I'll definitely wait for about 5 years of other people beta testing it before I'd want to take that plunge.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

kapusta said:


> I don't know how keen I would be on integrating the most expensive component of the bike (the frame) with the one most likely to crap the bed (dropper post).


Agreed. Which is why I won't be an early adopter. But then I said (and did) the same thing with suspension, tubeless tires, 29" wheels, etc.
If such a system gets adopted and refined by "the industry," then I'll embrace it. Meanwhile...
=sParty


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

kapusta said:


> I don't know how keen I would be on integrating the most expensive component of the bike (the frame) with the one most likely to crap the bed (dropper post).
> 
> Not ruling it out, but I'll definitely wait for about 5 years of other people beta testing it before I'd want to take that plunge.


It can be replaced if needed.


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## tferg (Jan 28, 2021)

I'm just mad that we even have dropper posts, geeeeezzz. ANOTHER option to make mountain biking even more amazing?! Mad mad mad...stop it.

Just ride your amazing bike dude. I just built and gave my nephew a (modern, and nice) hardtail without a dropper post. His words? "Oh that's no problem I'll just flip the release and lower it when I go downhill, easy enough." Take on


CS645 said:


> Yes, sell the one you have probably maintained and know will function for years and buy another second hand which you don't know the internal condition of for the same money. Or buy a new one and loose a few hundred quid just so the industry can maintain a 0.7mm difference...
> 
> That attitude allows this annoyance to continue.


Dude, your thought on proper maintenance and internal condition and all that is silly. Instead of spending time creating a post on a forum, do research on affordable 30.9 options and get a shim. Namely, PNW components makes easily serviceable highly reliable options that also allow travel adjust. Get a 30.9 x 170mm and it can be as short as 140 (I think). Done. I bet you'd be set for years to come. Take the ~$200 (at most) hit and RIDE YOUR BIKE!


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## diamondback1x9 (Dec 21, 2020)

tferg said:


> I'm just mad that we even have dropper posts, geeeeezzz. ANOTHER option to make mountain biking even more amazing?! Mad mad mad...stop it.
> 
> Just ride your amazing bike dude. I just built and gave my nephew a (modern, and nice) hardtail without a dropper post. His words? "Oh that's no problem I'll just flip the release and lower it when I go downhill, easy enough." Take on
> 
> Dude, your thought on proper maintenance and internal condition and all that is silly. Instead of spending time creating a post on a forum, do research on affordable 30.9 options and get a shim. Namely, PNW components makes easily serviceable highly reliable options that also allow travel adjust. Get a 30.9 x 170mm and it can be as short as 140 (I think). Done. I bet you'd be set for years to come. Take the ~$200 (at most) hit and RIDE YOUR BIKE!


welcome. great first post!


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## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

Push for the larger size diameter so eventually more companieies catch on to enlarging the bushings, air spring, etc to make a more durable dropper post. Right now as far as I know only one company takes advantage of this. I think it is 9.8 but could be mistaken. Can’t fault other companies for streamlining manufacturing by keeping to one smaller size internals to work with all options, and can’t fault bike companies for not pushing for this “revolution”. It is something to hope for and support and that is why I emailed my preferred bike frame company to request they make a frame with ISCG mounts or else I’ll buy elsewhere. Vote with your feet/money and see what happens.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

TwoTone said:


> It's already being done by some
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good to see one of the bigger players making it work, though it's elliptical. Proprietary for now?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Why? Because the bike industry has no desire to agree on anything. New, ridiculous standards that no-one asked for is the name of the game.









Explainer: Road Boost is a new road bike wheel standard, here's why it exists.


Road Boost is a new hub spacing standard for road, gravel, bikepacking, and e-road bikes. Does this mean you need new wheels?




bikerumor.com


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

The real crime is the price of dropper posts with their office chair tech, charging us like it's some new space-aged material.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

GKelley said:


> The real crime is the price of dropper posts with their office chair tech, charging us like it's some new space-aged material.


Easy sell since it seems 90% of buyers are convinced you if you so much as ride off a curb without one, you'll die. .


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

slapheadmofo said:


> Easy sell since it seems 90% of buyers are convinced you if you so much as ride off a curb without one, you'll die. .


Interesting perspective, Slap. My experience has been the opposite -- 90% (probably more, actually) of the riders I know who said they didn't need a dropper post / would never own a dropper post eventually came to feel it's one of their favorite / most used / most important components on their bike. All (including myself) were surprised how much easier, safer and more fun a dropper post makes navigating challenging terrain.

None of them -- including me -- were ever afraid of dropping a curb, with or without the dropper, tho.
=sParty


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

GKelley said:


> The real crime is the price of dropper posts with their office chair tech, charging us like it's some new space-aged material.


The flawed assumption that office chair tech would work for a dropper post is the reason that almost all of them sucked for the first decade.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> Interesting perspective, Slap. My experience has been the opposite -- 90% (probably more, actually) of the riders I know who said they didn't need a dropper post / would never own a dropper post eventually came to feel it's one of their favorite / most used / most important components on their bike. All (including myself) were surprised how much easier, safer and more fun a dropper post makes navigating challenging terrain.
> 
> None of them -- including me -- were ever afraid of dropping a curb, with or without the dropper, tho.
> =sParty


Yep. i was an early adoptor (got a GD in 2005), 90% of people said it was a silly, overpriced gimmick. "Just learn how to get behind the saddle". 90% of those people who still ride now have droppers.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

kapusta said:


> The flawed assumption that office chair tech would work for a dropper post is the reason that almost all of them sucked for the first decade.


It's just an air cartridge....


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## diamondback1x9 (Dec 21, 2020)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Why? Because the bike industry has no desire to agree on anything. New, ridiculous standards that no-one asked for is the name of the game.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


all the bike companies are just trying to confuse us into getting expensive components that won't fit


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

GKelley said:


> It's just an air cartridge....


Dunning Kruger


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> Interesting perspective, Slap. My experience has been the opposite -- 90% (probably more, actually) of the riders I know who said they didn't need a dropper post / would never own a dropper post eventually came to feel it's one of their favorite / most used / most important components on their bike. All (including myself) were surprised how much easier, safer and more fun a dropper post makes navigating challenging terrain.
> 
> None of them -- including me -- were ever afraid of dropping a curb, with or without the dropper, tho.
> =sParty


Obviously being a bit tongue-in-cheek, but you and I have both been involved in countless threads here where a number of people (usually either riders newer to the game than us, which is most, or those who've been riding a long time but always with their seats jacked to the frigging sky) voice assumptions that anyone not using a dropper 'obviously isn't riding anything but easy trails'. Which is a joke.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

slapheadmofo said:


> Obviously being a bit tongue-in-cheek, but you and I have both been involved in countless threads here where a number of people (usually either riders newer to the game than us, which is most, or those who've been riding a long time but always with their seats jacked to the frigging sky) voice assumptions that anyone not using a dropper 'obviously isn't riding anything but easy trails'. Which is a joke.


Can't argue with this.
=sParty


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

kapusta said:


> Dunning Kruger


Ditto.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

GKelley said:


> Ditto.


If you understood Dunning Kruger, you would understand how little sense that makes in light of our exchange up until now.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

kapusta said:


> If you understood Dunning Kruger, you would understand how little sense that makes in light of our exchange up until now.


That's nonsense! I can get an education from reddit as well you know.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

GKelley said:


> That's nonsense! I can get an education from reddit as well you know.


Touche


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Actually we give educations right here on MTBR, no charge.


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