# Manuals



## Mt Ashland (Apr 27, 2007)

Can anyone give me any help here? I've looked through all of the tutorials, by the way.

Every time I try to manual, my handlebars go back down after about one second after I pull them up. Any suggestions?


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## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)

get your ass over the rear tire and hold it there.


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## Heals120 (Apr 16, 2006)

One of the best things that worked for me, and I tell other people to try this and it works, is when you go to pull back, commit fully. Sweep your ass down and back, as if you were going to wipe your ass on your seat. And always keep one finger on your back break, ALWAYS.


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## markf (Jan 17, 2007)

i'm not quite all the way to manualling yet, but i'm getting closer. what's helped me is to not pull on the bars, per se. but rather hang on and lean back/get my butt as far back and low as i can.


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## spcarter (Nov 17, 2007)

I'm in the same boat as markf, and I've found that pushing down and forward on the cranks when pulling up helps.


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## pro (Oct 7, 2007)

spcarter is right. The majority of the power when you pull up should be from your feet pushing on the cranks. It takes a while to get it right, but the good thing is its kinda hard to fall!


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

The only power coming out of your arms should be a slight twitch of the wrists, nothing more is needed. The rest is just weight transfer + pushing forward on the pedals.


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## Mt Ashland (Apr 27, 2007)

alright, thanks a lot guys! i'll try again tomorrow


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## dpspac3 (Oct 4, 2007)

are you on bmx or a 26" DJ? I can hardly manual on my 26", but bmx was way easier to learn. On 20", if you do what they say above about getting your ass over the rear wheel, I found the bike just wants to manual on its own. Also, on 20's, I found going to a skatepark and finding a nice little transition you can pop over and start manual that way, is easier too and gets you a feel for the manual. its trickier than it looks, you can loop out really easy and if your not used to it, you end up on your ass. Feathering the brake to extend your manual - thats another skill. Now what about fufs? thats a trick I'm dying to learn. Come on you rippers, how do you learn that on, say, a curb or a mellow bank?


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

For me the thing that helped the most was getting the foot location perfect. I started off keeping my feet level with the ground and I just could not get it at first. Then I move my right fot up slight and my left down (right foot leading) and it helped a lot. It makes it easier for me to push the pedals forward to get to the balance point.


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

i started practicing on a trainer in the house. have made leaps and bounds this way. you get to practice finding that balance point over and over and over again without wearing yourself out pedaling and without worrying about looping out. practicing on the trainer, this sunday i went from having never tried a manual barspin, to having them pretty much dialed.


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

euroford said:


> i started practicing on a trainer in the house. have made leaps and bounds this way. you get to practice finding that balance point over and over and over again without wearing yourself out pedaling and without worrying about looping out. practicing on the trainer, this sunday i went from having never tried a manual barspin, to having them pretty much dialed.


Are you talking like a windtrainer where you lock the rear wheel in? Never thought of that. basically you can balance at the balance point but you can't "push" the pedals down like you do when riding though. Still a great idea...


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## AW_ (Jan 3, 2006)

*practice*

The only good news is that once you "get it" and can do a manual, even for a short distance, the next step of progression into the near-infinite length manual comes a lot easier. Just keep practicing. Whatever tricks or tips you try, it will still come down to figuring out how to work the balance point.


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## Mt Ashland (Apr 27, 2007)

i still can't get the hang of them. i made a tiny tiny bit of progress today, but i still can't get my wheel off the ground for more than 1-2 seconds. i guess i just need to stay out there and practice, it's just so frustrating.

to those who were wondering: I ride 26's

thanks again for all your help, guys, i really appreciate it.


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

Demo-9 said:


> Are you talking like a windtrainer where you lock the rear wheel in? Never thought of that. basically you can balance at the balance point but you can't "push" the pedals down like you do when riding though. Still a great idea...












this exact one, not only is it the cheapest one at performance bike, it was also the most sturdy looking. you can still 'push' on the pedals when you manual, its a force interaction between you and the bike, basically nothing changes just because the bike is sitting still.


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## AW_ (Jan 3, 2006)

Mt Ashland said:


> i still can't get the hang of them. i made a tiny tiny bit of progress today, but i still can't get my wheel off the ground for more than 1-2 seconds. i guess i just need to stay out there and practice, it's just so frustrating.
> 
> to those who were wondering: I ride 26's
> 
> thanks again for all your help, guys, i really appreciate it.


Anyone can learn to manual, it just takes time. Most people give up before they figure it out. Just keep at it. Eventually it will click and you'll be rolling through the hood on one wheel everytime it is flat or downhill, and you will be stoked.


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## Mt Ashland (Apr 27, 2007)

AW_ said:


> Anyone can learn to manual, it just takes time. Most people give up before they figure it out. Just keep at it. Eventually it will click and you'll be rolling through the hood on one wheel everytime it is flat or downhill, and you will be stoked.


Ok, thanks a lot. it finally feels good, i'm progressing slowly, but at least it's progress.


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## IMKITBISHES (Jan 23, 2008)

WOW....>>!!!!! get a trainer, i did yesterday. used it for an hour or so, holly shyt it works!!!!

best thing ive done for manuals yet. heck yeah! nice suggestion!!


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

ya dude, that siht works.


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## JGill (May 2, 2008)

I've found that my bike tilts to the right or the left as soon as I hit the sweet spot. It doesn't turn it does more of a table top type of lean I guess...If that makes any sense. Anyone ever had that problem?


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## azn (Jan 30, 2008)

yea. i have that problem.
usually its cause one arm is lower than the other for me and i just lift the lower arm to correct it.


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## JGill (May 2, 2008)

Yeah I have tried all kinds of foot positions and it's getting better but it still happens every other time just about. I guess repetitiveness will smooth it all out...hopefully.


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## Mt Ashland (Apr 27, 2007)

how exactly do those trainers work?


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## JudgeDH (Apr 10, 2008)

I like the trainer idea. I neuro programming or programing yourself for the movement. Thanks euroford :thumbsup:


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

some 26'ers do manuals really ugly, with the front wheel real high and feathering the brakes the whole time.

try keeping your front wheel no more than 6" - 12" off the ground. shift your weight further behind the seat/over the back wheel and pressure your cranks/bottom bracket forward with your feet. you should be able to lock into it and not have to feather your brakes at all if you keep your front wheel really low. that's how bmx'ers can do them brakeless.


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## Dave Moore (Apr 15, 2004)

cmc4130 said:



> some 26'ers do manuals really ugly, with the front wheel real high and feathering the brakes the whole time.
> 
> try keeping your front wheel no more than 6" - 12" off the ground. shift your weight further behind the seat/over the back wheel and pressure your cranks/bottom bracket forward with your feet. you should be able to lock into it and not have to feather your brakes at all if you keep your front wheel really low. that's how bmx'ers can do them brakeless.


Question about your statement. I'm 5'-6.5" and 145 pounds. I manual my sons BMX with the front wheel lower than my 26 DJ'er but the wheelbase is much shorter. 
Wouldn't rider height and weight impact how high the front wheel would be? I would think yes because I simply cannot get my body back as far behind the seat as someone who stands 6' thus my front wheel would _have_ to ride higher...Just a theory.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Dave Moore said:


> Question about your statement. I'm 5'-6.5" and 145 pounds. I manual my sons BMX with the front wheel lower than my 26 DJ'er but the wheelbase is much shorter.
> Wouldn't rider height and weight impact how high the front wheel would be? I would think yes because I simply cannot get my body back as far behind the seat as someone who stands 6' thus my front wheel would _have_ to ride higher...Just a theory.


yeah, you probably have a point. i hadn't really thought about the height (or leg and arm length) factor. i'm 6'1". some 26"s out there are really compact though, super short back ends, short front ends, short stems... i would guess it's still easily doable for a 5'6" rider. just try to watch some online videos and see what people are doing. aaron chase has some pretty low-profile lockdown manuals and he doesn't seem that tall.... i dunno, man !


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## PiroChu (Apr 8, 2004)

Demo-9 said:


> I started off keeping my feet level with the ground and I just could not get it at first. Then I move my right fot up slight and my left down (right foot leading) and it helped a lot. It makes it easier for me to push the pedals forward to get to the balance point.


Wow, that's a great (new) piece of advice, thanks!! :thumbsup:

I was only able to hold it for barely a parking-lot car-width length, but - with this tip - I'm getting it to go for 2 car-width in parking lot. I know it's not much at all, but any improvement is cool. So, I'll keep at it some more

I only wish I had a trainer to try out, too, though.

Thanks,
- PiroChu

PS. 
my 2 favorite how-to vid's on manual...


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## yeti_tamer (Jul 20, 2008)

damn hella weird just had a whole dream last night about mauals and then i saw this thread, ya i just started doing them but im not that good yet but i wont give up cuz i know its coming, its hard cuz im 6'3 like 200lbs and i have to start using my arms less


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## machinehead131 (Apr 4, 2005)

yeti_tamer said:


> damn hella weird just had a whole dream last night about mauals and then i saw this thread, ya i just started doing them but im not that good yet but i wont give up cuz i know its coming, its hard cuz im 6'3 like 200lbs and i have to start using my arms less


I'm same size


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## yeti_tamer (Jul 20, 2008)

just wne tout and followed some of the pointers on here and held it for like 5 seconds which is a huge improvement , it felt like .... oh you know


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## sinkoman (Jul 2, 2008)

When you feel you're going to fall backwards, don't jump off until you ABSOLUTELY have to. Try as hard as you can to use your weight to bring the front back down, you won't learn if you keep on jumping off the back of the bike.

And you will fall flat on your ass a good few times when you're learning, accept it


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## yeti_tamer (Jul 20, 2008)

my biggest problem is pulling the breaks too hard and putting it down, but pumping my legs is like a must, my dad says i look like our dog humping the air lol. im about to tape a toilet donut to my ass for when i fall back:yesnod:


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

DONT USE THE BRAKE. its a crutch and will slow the learning process. Just jump off if you have to. brakes are for pussies


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## yeti_tamer (Jul 20, 2008)

im on a 26 but i have been getting better on the brake i have been trying not to use it tho and use my legs more for balance control


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## darkzeon (Jun 15, 2006)

cmc4130 said:


> some 26'ers do manuals really ugly, with the front wheel real high and feathering the brakes the whole time.
> 
> try keeping your front wheel no more than 6" - 12" off the ground. shift your weight further behind the seat/over the back wheel and pressure your cranks/bottom bracket forward with your feet. you should be able to lock into it and not have to feather your brakes at all if you keep your front wheel really low. that's how bmx'ers can do them brakeless.


Yeah, I noticed this too. Bmxer's have their front wheel maintain the same height as the rider makes adjustment's only.

I can manual a decent feet as long as I'm rolling fast, but I tend to get the front wheel high. But, when I'm rolling slow it's just painful to behold.

I have a friend who can manual slow/fast, and keep it their. But, he tends to sit on the saddle and front end is sky high, and uses the brakes. Quite impressive. But, If he would do it brakeless, he'd be looping out.

The way bmx rider's do it is better, I think. I'll keep my front end low from now on and stay off the brakes.


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## websterjody (May 16, 2007)

Lower tire pressure in the back wheel makes it easier to wheely/manual as well. It makes the back wheel less easy to roll. Try it, you'll see. It's good for practice but, not so good for jumps and such for obvious reasons.


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## sinkoman (Jul 2, 2008)

Make sure both your feet are centered on the pedal. I still can't do an INFINITE manual, or really turn one, but i've found that if you've got one foot a little farther out on the pedal than the other, you tend to veer that way.


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## zeeduv (Jul 30, 2007)

yeti_tamer said:


> damn hella weird just had a whole dream last night about mauals and then i saw this thread, ya i just started doing them but im not that good yet but i wont give up cuz i know its coming, its hard cuz im 6'3 like 200lbs and i have to start using my arms less


I can manual like a mf'er while dreaming.... but not so well in real life... I am actually a pro at everything while dreaming. Last biking dream I had I was pulling massive 360s at some wacky dream park I was riding. Makes me feel like I can actually do it when I wake up. Love riding dreams.


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## mack-a-nator (Apr 26, 2006)

fall.


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## mack-a-nator (Apr 26, 2006)

websterjody said:


> Lower tire pressure in the back wheel makes it easier to wheely/manual as well. It makes the back wheel less easy to roll. Try it, you'll see. It's good for practice but, not so good for jumps and such for obvious reasons.


once you get it down with less tire pressure and you fill it back up wont that mean you have to re learn it???? naaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh....


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## websterjody (May 16, 2007)

mack-a-nator said:


> once you get it down with less tire pressure and you fill it back up wont that mean you have to re learn it???? naaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh....


No, you would gradually increase the tire pressure as you progress.


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## mack-a-nator (Apr 26, 2006)

what ever you gotta do i guess


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## ncossey (Aug 26, 2008)

I can't manual to save my life, I have a permanent scar on my ass from trying in athletic shorts.


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## Brodie_78Kt (Oct 5, 2008)

Pump your tyres up to the maximum plus about 5 or 10psi

i found it easier to get wider bars it just seems to more stable when you first start to try.

try on a down hill slope first its easier might be a bit scarier but just ride the brake if it comes up to far.

Sit your arse on the tyre and bend your knees.

and thats about it it'll come with practice..

And now i can manual as far as i want pretty much until i stop


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## ncossey (Aug 26, 2008)

I can pedal as far as I want pretty much until I stop.


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## cjcc55 (May 3, 2008)

ncossey said:


> I can pedal as far as I want pretty much until I stop.


you know I kinda enjoy your ass hole remarks.. lol

I guess I need to get a way from using the brake, It's really the only way I can manual (but only for about 4 1/2 parking spaces). 
any tips for getting the pumping motion down?


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## yeti_tamer (Jul 20, 2008)

if anyone else is looking for a trainer to work on finding that g-spot, pricepoint has a SETTE one for like $70, cheaper than the ascent... i just ordered mine


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## azn (Jan 30, 2008)

cjcc55 said:


> I guess I need to get a way from using the brake, It's really the only way I can manual (but only for about 4 1/2 parking spaces).
> any tips for getting the pumping motion down?


lol. i eat it when i use the brake. guess i dont have the feathering technique down.

i've just been practicing a lot, and i've been getting a bit better. just concentrate on making it as smooth as possible? if my pumping gets jerky, i'll loop out.


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## CripTiK (Oct 21, 2007)

when I was learning manuals I put this guide together (the links in my sig) of all the information that I could find.


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## ncossey (Aug 26, 2008)

cjcc55 said:


> you know I kinda enjoy your ass hole remarks.. lol
> 
> I guess I need to get a way from using the brake, It's really the only way I can manual (but only for about 4 1/2 parking spaces).
> any tips for getting the pumping motion down?


Im glad that I entertain you Jeff


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

The pumping motions comes with practice, it's rather hard to put in words.


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## demonbydesign (Sep 6, 2008)

Is there life still left in this thread? It has helped me a lot and I hope it can continue on to help me and others. Any new updates from the original posters?


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## demonbydesign (Sep 6, 2008)

Also just to give some info about myself. I'm new to this type of bike riding. Just started less than a month ago since I bought a...

https://bikeshop.com.ua/images/giant_2008_stp-ss.jpg

So I'm trying manuals on a 26".

Yesterday I maintained an actual manual for about 3 seconds without losing total control and crashing off the bike! Big news for me. However, I did it on grass cause I lost some confidence on pavement with all the pain I've been receiving lately. I'm going to try more in parking lots so I can measure distance goals soon.

For me I find what's working best so far is when...

A) I start the manual coming out of a catwalk wheelie.

B) I remember to look ahead and not at the front wheel coming up.

C) When I'm not worried, staying loose, and just become instinctive about my own balance.

D) Realizing I'm just starting at the age of 42 and try not to put too much pressure on myself. Keep it fun and enjoy the journey as much as the destination.

The best tip I've received along the way so far has been to learn to lean over the front end when starting and to have the confidence and awareness that my back brake is only a light squeeze away from saving my body some damage. Plus, I highly recommend elbow and knee/shin pads.


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## redstripe (Jan 8, 2007)

*just*

I was just practicing manuals out front. Decided to try them brakless down a hill in front of my house...came off the back at pretty high speeds and fractured my foot. Now I am gonn abe off my bike for a few weeks:madman:


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## demonbydesign (Sep 6, 2008)

redstripe said:


> I was just practicing manuals out front. Decided to try them brakless down a hill in front of my house...came off the back at pretty high speeds and fractured my foot. Now I am gonn abe off my bike for a few weeks:madman:


Sorry to hear this for you, I really am. The funny thing is is that last night on MTV2 I was watching the show "Scarred". It was a marathon of all the episodes. A lot of that stuff really made me open my eyes to just how easy it is to make one false, seemingly innocent move and end up with some major major injuries! And almost everyone of them was a younger person than I am by far. I'm going to be really cautious about all this. I can't see myself doing anything beyond a manual or small jumps and bunny hops. Hell, even seen on that show an couple innocent looking bunny hops go totally wrong!

Take care of yourself.


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## kroonspeed (Nov 13, 2006)

Wow, awesome thread, not the usual "manualing help!" or "should i buy this bike" thread. Resume.


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## mr.niles (Feb 5, 2007)

so...how to use the trainer?? i'd really like to check that out....


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## demonbydesign (Sep 6, 2008)

mr.niles said:


> so...how to use the trainer?? i'd really like to check that out....


Me too. Anybody with info on how well they work (or not work) to help train to find the sweet spot so as to help save myself more bodily harm?

I tried some more to manual today and I so suck at it right now. My confidence is way down.


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## spcarter (Nov 17, 2007)

It's pretty much just what you'd think, put the bike in the train and lean back to try and find the sweet spot. I've been trying it and it helps to get kind of a basic idea where the sweet spot is. As of know I can somewhat "manual" in the trainer but it's completely different because the base is so stable. Pretty much all it has done for me on the streets as helped me be able to shovel the front end up better

I would in know means set up a trainer just to practice manualing but if your on it anyways its kind of nice to spend a few minutes trying .


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## PiroChu (Apr 8, 2004)

euroford said:


> without worrying about looping out


euroford,

Sounds like a great idea. So, how does it work that you don't loop out on this?

I've never owned a trainer, so here're some very-basic Q's, please (before I decide to buy one). 
Doesn't the trainer just holds the bike by your normal rear axle? If so, since the "caps" of the skewer bites onto the frame, so would a bike manual? Or, does the trainer come with a special trainer-specific rear axle that you replace & put thru instead that must somehow resolve this? 
When you say you don't loop out, is there a stopping point, even if you try to flip all the way back over? (Would the whole trainer then go flip over with you/bike?) If there's a stoppoing point, is that with the Performance one specifically, or with any/all trainers? I'm assuming that the stopping point is somewhere past the balance point (or it defeats the purpose).

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=17878&subcategory_ID=4120
http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/16...3-Trainers/Sette-Glyde-Tire-Drive-Trainer.htm

And, most importantly, ya sure this works dummy-proof, yes? Just makin' sure on my ROI before I actually go buy one, hahah... 

Thanks,
- PiroChu


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## IMKITBISHES (Jan 23, 2008)

I have this trainer http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCM?PAGE=PRODUCT_DB_ZOOM&PRODUCT.ID=780 , and it has helped deffinatley, i do warn you that it is NOT the same as an unassisted manual (it doesnt train u on side to side) and thats my biggest hurdle... that being said, it does a great job at training you on finding ur "sweet spot". Also the clamp bolts are a little hindering since they are so tight they kinda help u maintain or hold ursweetspot indefinatley.

CONS= bolts are to tight (not giving u a realistic feeling on holding the sweetspot), and no side to side movement.

PROS= convienient and better than nothing, great coach on how to shift yo ass over the rearaxel to rock back vs. pulling... you do that 30 times you WILL get it on your bike, might not bust out a quarter mile manual, but u will know how to rock ur bike back and up to the sweet spot. I found thatif you do this in fron tof your tv it will train u to keep ur head up and eyes frwd which for me is key.

BOTTOM LINE= no trainer is a sub or better then real practice, but great for a good arm burn and rainy day tv waching training!!!! :thumbsup:

ITOTALLYMADETHISWHOLETHINGUP JUSTKIDDING


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## kenpoman1 (Jun 7, 2008)

The position of your feet on the pedals makes a difference when you are trying to manual, everyone has a certain spot that they feel comfortable with pedaling, but it is not always the best for getting the direct pressure needed to maintain the manual easily, if you are having trouble keeping the wheel up try moving your feet a little more forward on the pedals and try again, it just might make a difference for you,it takes some of the pressure off of the ankles and and puts it more inline with your leg.


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## Prime8 (Apr 19, 2004)

*Practise*


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## cholo (Nov 25, 2006)

I learned by using parking lot lines. A slight downhill helps keep your momentum. Empty parking lots are good because they are smooth, and the lines work as graduated markings. You can gauge your progress.

Start by coasting at a slow speed, like 5-10 mph or so. With pedals level, shift your weight off the back and pull up on the bars to lift the front wheel. You'll need to hang your butt off the back of the bike, over the rear tire. Feather the rear brake* if you feel yourself start to loop, all while shifting your weight forward at the knees. If you feel the front start to drop, hang your butt farther off the back. Keep your upper body centered and fairly rigid, with just a very slight bend at the elbows. Once you learn where the "sweet spot", or balancing point is, you'll do most of the shifting of body weight at the knees. Side-to-side balance is achieved by leaning your upper body to the opposite side that the bike wants to go, and/or by leaning the bike to the inside leg, if you want to turn. 

It's really just learning where your balance point is and shifting your body weight to keep your bike on one wheel. It's not that simple; in a nutshell, that's what it's about.


*LEARN TO KEEP ONE FINGER ON YOUR BRAKE LEVER AT ALL TIMES. This very important. When you learn to use the brake properly, it will prevent you from looping out. When you start to loop out, tap, or feather the rear brake and it will bring the front wheel back down. This technique is also very useful for jumping. Brake checking can help you set-up for the backside by dropping the front end down when they are applied mid-air.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

*hmmm...*

say, are there any manuals on manuals?:lol:
:drumroll: `bah-dump-dump-tchsss`


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## cholo (Nov 25, 2006)

Manuel wrote a manual about manuals. 

Ha, one-upped ya.


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## CoastieTX (Oct 12, 2007)

Manuel wrote a manual about manuals on a manual typewriter.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Manuel wrote a manual about manuals on a manual typewriter _while_ manualing


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## tech44 (Dec 28, 2005)

Manuel wrote a manual about manuals on a manual typewriter _while_ manualing and if he can do it, _man, you will_.

:cornut:

god that was bad, but I had too :lol:


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## PiroChu (Apr 8, 2004)

*So I bought a trainer...*

euroford & IMKITBISHES,

So, being desparately wanting to be able to learn manual, I just paid my $80 "initiation fee" (LOL) and brought home a trainer - the exact same above-posted red Ascent one from Performance.

I tried it for 20min, and it wasn't as "fool proof" as I'd hoped it would. Don't get me wrong; it certainly was a good start for me (plus only 20min so far), and - for one thing - I'm definintely learning the "air humping" thinggie (or whatever you call it) for sure now, which my body/brain couldn't figure out before.

But, I have a couple of comments/questions...
#1 - On this trainer, euroford has noted, "...without worrying about looping out." But actually I found out that you can totally still loop-out (assuming that means falling backwards) on the trainer. Am I setting it up differently than how euroford does with his?
#2 - On this traininer, rear braking doesn't stop looping out. So, you must do the "air hump" or jump off, if about to loop out. Is that just the way it is with a trainer, or am I setting it up differently?

I'll keep at it for a bit longer, and hope to see a bit more noticeable progress out of it (or I can still return it for refund).

Thanks,
- PiroChu


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## demonbydesign (Sep 6, 2008)

Glad the thread is active again for one thing.

About the trainer. Let us know how much it's helping out.

As for my own latest progress...well I suggest that you all go out and buy some nice green converse hi tops! I did and then went out and had the best practice session ever!

Silly, sorry. But seriously, the more and more I practice, the more and more I gain confidence and I'm starting to show minor improvement. I haven't fallen in a couple weeks now mainly because I'm more relaxed about it all knowing I can just tap the back brake to literally save my [email protected]@!

Also, the more I ride my bike, the more I'm becoming in tune with her. Her name is Jade by the way. 

And...for me I was riding it with the seat all the way down which was hurting my knees (at my age) when I wanted to sit down and pedal once in a while. So I had a talk with myself and decided to play around with raising the seat up a bit. Not much but enough that I can sit and ride without my knees being too uncomfortable and stressed when the pedal is at it's highest point. The added benefit has been a real blessing. How? Well with the seat up a bit higher I can now use my inner thighs to press against the seat here and there to help me gather balance in turns and when doing catwalk wheelies! Plus, just about as soon as I did raise the seat it seems to have had a positive effect in that I can more easily find my manual balance point! Could moving the seat up and down truly affect where the balance point is located? Maybe it's all in my head. Maybe it is the bright green converse shoes. Maybe it's just that I'm gaining more and more experience. Whatever it is, I'm happy that I'm improving day by day. It's fun again. And that's something I was losing as I was getting just frustrated with it there for a while.

So don't lose your focus! Be safe, be instinctive (which can sometimes mean to NOT try something if it feels unsafe. Don't be foolish), but above all have fun. Don't let any lack of perceived improvement get you frustrated like it did me. Just by you and me doing it over and over again and again...in time we will improve. Enjoy the journey not the destination really rings true for me! I may never really manual like some guys. But if I can manual at all (and I can briefly now with some consistency) I'm already better than I was at any point. I'm pleased with the little things now.

O.k., enough of my soapbox on this. I'm just trying to keep everybody's heads up! Don't give up. I was about to. Don't. I still suck compared to many who can manual for days. I can manual for seconds. But look at all the people in the world who can't even ride a bike period! We already have a leg up on them sorry bastards. :thumbsup:

Jade and me have a new understanding and have entered into a new commitment in our relationship. Our relationship is focused on positive fun times!

https://bikeshop.com.ua/images/giant_2008_stp-ss.jpg


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## azn (Jan 30, 2008)

tech44 said:


> Manuel wrote a manual about manuals on a manual typewriter _while_ manualing and if he can do it,* man, you will.*
> 
> :cornut:
> 
> god that was bad, but I had too :lol:


omg. that was so painfully bad.


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## cholo (Nov 25, 2006)

> Manuel wrote a manual about manuals on a manual typewriter while manualing and if he can do it, man, you will.


*Man, you all* are BAD! haha..HA!:thumbsup:


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## Camaro_Dave (Jun 15, 2008)

screw manualing... I need to learn how to wheelie farther then 20 feet first!


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## demonbydesign (Sep 6, 2008)

Camaro_Dave said:


> screw manualing... I need to learn how to wheelie farther then 20 feet first!


I'm actually better at catwalk wheelies than manuals and I'm better at manuals than classic sitting down wheelies.

Basically I suck at all 3 right now.:bluefrown:

But more seriously, I'm finding that when I really need to wheelie or manual over a small object or area in my path that my instinctive self takes over and I just do it even if it's not for any great distance.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

WOW...a trainer, I never thought of that...manuals are a b*tch for me to and I even have a bmx background, but I might have to try the trainer thing. Sorry if this has been posted but I dont feel like reading 4 pages, youtube has some great video tuts.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Even cheaper then performance.










http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/16...3-Trainers/Sette-Glyde-Tire-Drive-Trainer.htm


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## demonbydesign (Sep 6, 2008)

Anybody have any progress to report that have had time using a trainer? Has it actually helped you to manual in the real world? 

A new question. Does it help to have a lighter wheel set (especially up front)? In other words, is a heavier wheel up front hurting my situation by wanting to come down sooner? Does a heavier wheel up front create a different balance point, by that I mean does the heavier wheel make you have to hold the front end up higher, thus increasing the chance of looping out?

I've been trying to manual every day, weather permitting, for a half hour to an hour. What usually happens is that I either don't commit enough (fear of looping out and breaking a wrist or something), or I get it for a few seconds but never actually feel in control of the balance point and hit the brake or push forward to bring it down fast. 

Maybe a stupid question but...today near the end of my manual session (darkness approaching) I was trying to slow down my brain to really concentrate on feeling my back wheel which is something I have not really focused on before. To those who can manual, do you focus on the back wheel sensations or something else in order to gain/feel in control?


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## Camaro_Dave (Jun 15, 2008)

so what's a cat walk wheelie?

spent about an hour trying to manual. can only get about 5 car stalls. and even then it doesn't feel like I'm in control of the manual. but sit down wheelies are a lot easier now. I still suck but they're better


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## demonbydesign (Sep 6, 2008)

Camaro_Dave said:


> so what's a cat walk wheelie?
> 
> spent about an hour trying to manual. can only get about 5 car stalls. and even then it doesn't feel like I'm in control of the manual. but sit down wheelies are a lot easier now. I still suck but they're better


Cat walk wheelie is when your standing up instead of sitting down when pedaling your wheelie.

And 5 car stalls is awesome compared to what I can do! Be happy.


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## demonbydesign (Sep 6, 2008)

Today I experimented with my bike to help me with my manuals. I've been having one hell of a time getting them down. Good news is that my catwalk wheelies are getting better and better! Last night I dreamt I fell on my back attempting a catwalk wheelie. But then for the rest of the dream I was able to catwalk at will. I was so good at 'em that I tried to fall but couldn't! I also was so good at them that I couldn't even bring the front back down!!! It was awesome! Then I dreamt that I was coasting down a narrow paved path with trees on either side. I attempted to manual. I not only manualed but it was e-a-s-y. All I had to do was tease the front end up, then sit way back and way low. It seemed so real and felt so...possible that today I went out and attempted to duplicate what I did in my dream.

It didn't work of course. But what I did do was take an allen wrench to my handlebar. I turned it upwards more ala like a BMX bike, as I noticed on some of the videos of Jeff Lenosky and Aaron Chase that theirs appear to be turned upwards to it's peak height. Mine had more of an angle towards me. I also turned my brake levers more downward towards the front tire. I experimented with different handlebar settings. And guess what? Today I had my best manual yet!!! Freakin' stoked! It was no super manual but for me it was the the easiest and best yet. Turning the handlebar upright seemed to make my ability to lift the front easier and my new arm position gave me more balance. Putting me in the balance point with more regularity.

Also, before I reported that raising my seat height seemed to help me. But today I put the seat at it's lowest point again and moved the seat back as far as possible. This seems to be for the best so as not to smash my coconuts :yikes: when doing bunny hops and when I've had to catch myself falling foward from a wheelie and manual.

I was feeling brave near the end of my practice session and attempted to do a crankflip. STUPID!!! I made minced meat of my left shin.

Anybody else have a report on progress or something that has helped that you've tried recently? Sorry this is so long but getting to the point where I can manual in control is my #1 priority in my bike skills. One more thing, I felt better about things watching Aaron Chase in this video on manuals cause he points out that some days you just can't manual. And this rings true because the day before today I felt like nothing was working right. Good days bad days. Keeping at it is key! Keeping it fun too. Check out the video.


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## DirtVertBurt (Dec 8, 2008)

Spent all weekend on the trainer. I havent had blisters on my hands like this since I first learnt to love myself. Pretty big lat workout, too.

Sunday it all started coming together: straight arms, use the legs to lift, butt to balance. I can find the sweet spot pretty quickly now and hang on till I drop. After just an hour on the trainer I realized I was WAY too chicken with my brake when riding on the street. I also learnt it need not be a violent pull up on bars.

The weathers pretty bad here so I dint get outside, and I know the trainer just "trained" on a part of the progression, so im lookin forward to riding...


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## demonbydesign (Sep 6, 2008)

DirtVertBurt said:


> Spent all weekend on the trainer. I havent had blisters on my hands like this since I first learnt to love myself. Pretty big lat workout, too.
> 
> Sunday it all started coming together: straight arms, use the legs to lift, butt to balance. I can find the sweet spot pretty quickly now and hang on till I drop. After just an hour on the trainer I realized I was WAY too chicken with my brake when riding on the street. I also learnt it need not be a violent pull up on bars.
> 
> The weathers pretty bad here so I dint get outside, and I know the trainer just "trained" on a part of the progression, so im lookin forward to riding...


What did you mean when you stated "WAY too chicken with my brake when riding on the street"?


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## scottg07 (Jun 21, 2006)

does anybody have one of the sette trainers? thinking about getting one thats seems pretty cool- i could do cardio and practice manuals!!:thumbsup:


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## DirtVertBurt (Dec 8, 2008)

demonbydesign said:


> What did you mean when you stated "WAY too chicken with my brake when riding on the street"?


Since you dont use the brake on the trainer, you are forced to either stick with it or jump off. it turns out I can stick with it and not dump truck way more often than I thought I could. On the street, I panicked way too much and used the brake to bring it back. Now after spending time on the trainer, i think that dam brake wasted a ton of time.


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## KLittle123 (Oct 27, 2007)

Heals120 said:


> One of the best things that worked for me, and I tell other people to try this and it works, is when you go to pull back, commit fully. Sweep your ass down and back, as if you were going to wipe your ass on your seat. And always keep one finger on your back break, ALWAYS.


It's true. Leeeeeean with it. If your wheel goes down that quick you're not leaning far enough back. Don't be scared of ****, just pull and move back like crazy aaaand yeah if you're about to faall back just catch yourself with your feet or lean forward.


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## scottg07 (Jun 21, 2006)

i braved the snow and ice to practice some manuals today now that i finally got my bike back with 09 318- my problem seems to be that when i get up high enough i wont feather the rear brake i just jump off and let the bike loop out- n i think im doing that prematurely. its just pure instinct and trying to override that is hard...my bb7s are pretty grabby too cant feather em very good


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## koldsimer1 (Jul 31, 2008)

My input on manuals- about a month ago I got a new gt ruckus. I had always been good at wheelies on my fs ride but never could get the feel of manuals. After one month of riding and practicing whenever I can, I have gone from manualing 1 or 2 parking spaces to pulling 100yd + manuals, turning and everything. 

The key is simply practice. I also found there are basically two types of manuals. Some people sit really low and back. I found that standing up on the bike works better for me. The leaning really low puts too much stress on my old knees. 

The trainer is good at finding the balance point but it does nothing for side to side control. 

Remember that you are gonna loop some manuals. It's all part of the learning process.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Excuse me if I'm being dense, but what's the difference between manuals and wheelies?
Back in my skatboardin' days we (collectively) started manuals, after that freestyle BMX adopted the term (and now apparently MTB), but I always thought it was just a different name for a wheelie. 
Where did I fall off the trail?

**[my 420'th post! - time for a safety meeting ]**


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## koldsimer1 (Jul 31, 2008)

highdelll said:


> Excuse me if I'm being dense, but what's the difference between manuals and wheelies?
> Back in my skatboardin' days we (collectively) started manuals, after that freestyle BMX adopted the term (and now apparently MTB), but I always thought it was just a different name for a wheelie.
> Where did I fall off the trail?
> 
> **[my 420'th post! - time for a safety meeting ]**


You pedal a wheelie. You simply stand and balance a manual.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

koldsimer1 said:


> You pedal a wheelie. You simply stand and balance a manual.


cool, thanks:thumbsup: 
if you do both (alternate) is it a maneelie?


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

highdelll said:


> Excuse me if I'm being dense, but what's the difference between manuals and wheelies?
> Back in my skatboardin' days we (collectively) started manuals, after that freestyle BMX adopted the term (and now apparently MTB), but I always thought it was just a different name for a wheelie.
> Where did I fall off the trail?
> 
> **[my 420'th post! - time for a safety meeting ]**


i think part of what helped the crossover of the term was ramp riding (which was way bigger than street in the late 80s). skaters would pop out of a mini or vert ramp, manual the deck and drop back in. do the same on a bike, it made sense to call it a manual and not a "deck wheelie" or something.

similarly, in street, you usually would ollie onto a ledge or table and "manual it" and drop off. it kind of captures the idea of hopping onto something and landing only on the back wheels. same with bmx. manual a ledge does not mean bunnyhop onto it with both wheels and then pull up into a wheelie...it means hopping onto something and landing in the manual and maintaining it for the entire length of whatever you hopped onto. "manualing" on flat ground is sort of a byproduct idea--but yeah, now it means a stand up wheelie without pedaling just body english to maintain position.

use of brakes is considered bad style. if you are using brakes, you are not in the correct balance point and you're compensating. you can keep a finger on the brake lever to prevent looping and assplanting, but don't feather it.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

cmc4130 said:


> ...
> use of brakes is considered bad style....


much like dragging your tail on a skate - doesn't count

well said BTW


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## TheDon (Oct 18, 2005)

I can agree with that. 

You shouldn't worry about falling backwards, usually the rear wheel will just go forwards and you can easily land on your feet. covering the brake is useless, you need to learn to find and keep the balance point. Watch the videos of people doing it. Just try to copy what they do. It's the same when learning skateboard and snowboard tricks, watch the pros, learn to feel what they do and mimic it.


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## RobUrb (Oct 23, 2008)

ive been practicing so much my lats are sore and im doing manuals in my dreams. i hope that means im close! the tire is a lot higher at the balance point than i originally guessed.


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## demonbydesign (Sep 6, 2008)

Hey all! I just started to ride again after taking a few months off (bad weather, and sore knees) I just got in from a minor manual session and yuppers I still suck at them. Anyway, just thought I'd bump this thread up and see if anybody has anything they can add.

I do have a request. If anybody has any homemade videos of yourself doing a manual please post it? I've seen all the ones on youtube mind you. Thanks.


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## pebbles (Jan 13, 2009)

Yo, I been trying manuals on a GF Mullet for a month now and am just getting the feel for 'em. No BMX background at all and no locals who ride worth a crap. Soon as I looped out and crashed I got better. Still, I wanna be able to manual at will and farther than 10ft.


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## LandoCommando (Feb 26, 2009)

Im in at about day 16 on learning manuals and I pretty much just found the key just the other day.
Even though I thought my weight was back far, it wasnt. It turns out that extra little bit I can put back there helps tremendously. 
I went from 5 foot manuals to about 20-25 just from realizing that I actually COULD put more of my weight behind the wheel. 
I also fine tuned my pumps too.


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## demonbydesign (Sep 6, 2008)

LandoCommando said:


> Im in at about day 16 on learning manuals and I pretty much just found the key just the other day.
> Even though I thought my weight was back far, it wasnt. It turns out that extra little bit I can put back there helps tremendously.
> I went from 5 foot manuals to about 20-25 just from realizing that I actually COULD put more of my weight behind the wheel.
> I also fine tuned my pumps too.


That's awesome! Are you riding a BMX or a 26" dirt jump?

I have a STP (26" dirt jump bike) and yesterday I went out and briefly test rode a real BMX bike. It was an Eastern Shovelhead model. I was able to pull a brief manual right off the bat! This has me seriously considering selling off my STP for a true BMX bike. It seems (or is in fact true) that I don't have to have my front end up as high on a BMX. My body also seemed to be placed in a more "natural" feeling position when in the balance point. Well that was a fast impression from a real quick test ride anyway. If I do eventually buy a BMX bike I will be giving up a front shock and the ability to take it places that my STP can go. So I'd need to buy a MTB down the road as I like to still do trail rides every now and then.

Decisions Decisions.


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## LandoCommando (Feb 26, 2009)

demonbydesign said:


> That's awesome! Are you riding a BMX or a 26" dirt jump?


I have a P.2


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## cstone (Apr 5, 2009)

Do manuals take a lot of upper body strength or is it more sitting over the rear wheel? I'm a girl so not sure if this is going to be much harder for me. I can just lift the front for now so got to get the guts to lean way back I guess.


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## LandoCommando (Feb 26, 2009)

cstone said:


> Do manuals take a lot of upper body strength or is it more sitting over the rear wheel? I'm a girl so not sure if this is going to be much harder for me. I can just lift the front for now so got to get the guts to lean way back I guess.


Guts is what it will take. Just lifting the front wheel wont do anything for very long.
Its more about leaning back and pumping your legs outward with your arms locked which brings up the front. 
Its all about where your weight is, so get it back there.


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## cstone (Apr 5, 2009)

Well, its not all guts. I can only lift the wheel right now like enough to get over the bigger curbs no matter how far I lean back. I think its cause my arm was in a cast for almost 7 months and just now starting to really strengthen it. My upper bodys still weak. What muscles does that use cause I have weights? I'll work on the bunny hops first. I just need to work on getting the rear wheel up. I think there are some youtube vids so I'll check those out and practice. I'm used to falling off the uni now so dont think the bike is much different. I'm comfortable with the uni thing. I'm less of a wus on a bike then skates right now.

But I heard there are some dirt jumps 45 mins from here. So I'll have to figure out exactly where!! Its funny, the skateboarders in my neighborhood are jealous of my bike hahahaha.


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## JGill (May 2, 2008)

You will use most of your body when learning them at first. After you get a little used to them you won't have to yank up on the bars anymore to ge tthe front end up. It will all become fluid and click one day. I found using your weight more than pulling with your arms helps to keep the front end up as it leaves the ground. All the tutorials you will ever read will only help to a certain extent. You just have to practice and not get frustrated. And don't be one of those idiots that has a temper tantrum and throws their bike! Just give it to someone else who could use it haha. But since nobody learns things in the exact same way, so what will help me may not help you out at all... And at first you will be using muscles all over your body to get the bike up and trying to ride it out. After your first day or two you may feel a little tight in certain areas, so I would use that for a guide to what muscles you might strengthen. Either way, working out your entire body is ideal for almost everything in life anyway...

I tried to practice them on flat, and both a down-grade and up-grade to really get the feel for them. Also picking out a point to point distance gives you a goal to work toward. I also found when I was first getting better at them, I used my legs the most the majority of the time. I used them to push and pull the bike when the front end would want to drop down. Just don't haul a$$ and then yank up on the bars, that doesn't help at all! This all might not be too helpful for you but that is exactly how I learned them at first.


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## azn (Jan 30, 2008)

go at a decent pace, maybe the speed of a brisk jog? 
At first, I was practicing at low speeds, and had a hell of a time balancing. it seems the faster you go, the easier it is to balance. 
up to a certain point, of course


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## cstone (Apr 5, 2009)

Thanks, my legs are pretty strong now, arms not. I have tons of fun riding fast and going off things so I'll just keep practicing in between. It took me 2 weeks to learn to ride a uni, a month to learn to rollerskate ramps. Both at the start I figured I couldnt do. So I guess this is no different. I'm not a dork that has temper tantrums either. If I get frustrated, I just call it a day. Maybe I need to get my butt further over the rear wheel. Might ride over by the skatepark here and see if there is a BMXer that can look to see if I'm not far back enough. I asked about picking up the rear wheel and a guy said you just learn lol. I dont think I'm pushing right on the pedals.

Tomorrow I might be able to fix up the MTB. I cant wait to try the new fork. I'm not sure where there is a good 2 foot jump within a mile from here to test it out...... I'll figure something to jump off! I am not sure why but ever since I broke my arm from JUMPING inside and flatbottoming from atop the 10 foot bowl, I've been craving jumping lol. :thumbsup:



JGill said:


> You will use most of your body when learning them at first. After you get a little used to them you won't have to yank up on the bars anymore to ge tthe front end up. It will all become fluid and click one day. I found using your weight more than pulling with your arms helps to keep the front end up as it leaves the ground. All the tutorials you will ever read will only help to a certain extent. You just have to practice and not get frustrated. And don't be one of those idiots that has a temper tantrum and throws their bike! Just give it to someone else who could use it haha. But since nobody learns things in the exact same way, so what will help me may not help you out at all... And at first you will be using muscles all over your body to get the bike up and trying to ride it out. After your first day or two you may feel a little tight in certain areas, so I would use that for a guide to what muscles you might strengthen. Either way, working out your entire body is ideal for almost everything in life anyway...
> 
> I tried to practice them on flat, and both a down-grade and up-grade to really get the feel for them. Also picking out a point to point distance gives you a goal to work toward. I also found when I was first getting better at them, I used my legs the most the majority of the time. I used them to push and pull the bike when the front end would want to drop down. Just don't haul a$$ and then yank up on the bars, that doesn't help at all! This all might not be too helpful for you but that is exactly how I learned them at first.


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## bloodfart (Apr 30, 2009)

*manual manual*

Its all about form ( practice cruising downhill its easier the faster ur rolling)

start by pushing on the bars then as your pushing your body(mostly ur ass,the center) past the seat and over the rear wheel pull the bars up/back not too hard, just enough to get the front wheel about 6-12 inches off the ground.(if u pull too hard or fast it will be hard to control and u will loose ballance quickly in any and all directions)be like goldy locks or buddha take the middle path dont pull so much the ur sitting on the pavement but do pull enough to get to the balence point and not past it the more ur bobbing around the harder it is to hold

now that ur at the sweet spot between breaking ur black ass and bringin the front back down
to stay there you balance side to side by steering the bars like normal riding and using your feet and legs push and pull the bike out/away and toward/under you

you need to be comfortable with looping out get a feel for it and if u have brakes it may help to practice pulling up from a track stand to looping out in one pedal rotation, get a feel for jumpin off and or pulling the brake the last second(this helped me get a feel for pedal kicks too). Breaking ur tailbone hurts and u wont be able to sit right for about a month but u wont pay a doc to cast u cuz your ass muscle will correct the break for u


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## leif20 (Apr 28, 2009)

that was only a little confusing
but helpful nonetheless
im on day 3 of manual practice, and once out of ten tries I hit the sweet spot but then let it go because Im afraid to commit. I guess thats what it is then - just commit. 
I have been really pulling up hard on the bike, and not throwing my ass hard enough and not pushing at all on the cranks. Im going to bust my ass to work this out, and hopefully I will be able to get in realy solid ones by 2 weeks.
Questions: 
Where shuld I look while manualing? Where do most people look?
Is the position more shifting your ass and pushing cranks than pulling up on bars?


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## bloodfart (Apr 30, 2009)

look where your trying to go its really more about feeling it
have a point your trying to hold it past
be smooth no abrupt force be patient the muscle memory will take a while to pick up


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## markf (Jan 17, 2007)

i've been practicing a couple times a week (i really should do more) during my day off and sunday mornings(shop's open in the afternoons). i give manuals a good 10 mins of work during my sessions at the tiny/crap skate park near my house. i'm definitely making progress. there's a huge, gently sloping parking lot for the swimming pool next to the state park, and it's always empty. i've been using the parking space lines as gauges of how i'm doing, and it helps a ton (thanks whoever suggested it). i'm definitely making progress and can consistently get 2 spaces, sometimes 3. i'm starting to be able to correct balance a little, but usually over correct and mess things up. fun though.


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## callmetheNewGuy (May 19, 2008)

yeah i got my back last saturday, and practiced for 5 days straight before i got a freakin pinch flat on a curb. 

i look straight ahead, even with the horizon, but its not like i'm concentrating on where to look. just natural. 
and what is a lot easier than just pulling up on the bars is shifting weight really far back w/ legs and arms straight with pressure on the pedals. that way, you can bend your knees to bring weight forward if you're falling too far back. 
(feathering the brakes is a good technique, but mine are uber sensitive, and feathering mine throws me into the ground...that'll take practice)

and thats another thing, if you're afraid of falling, then thats an easy fix...right before you practice manualing everyday, practice a few of these: pull too hard, lean too far bck, and just pop the bike out from under you and land on your feet. the easier the bail gets, the easier it is to commit, because bailing is 2nd nature now.


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## leif20 (Apr 28, 2009)

callmetheNewGuy said:


> and thats another thing, if you're afraid of falling, then thats an easy fix...right before you practice manualing everyday, practice a few of these: pull too hard, lean too far bck, and just pop the bike out from under you and land on your feet. the easier the bail gets, the easier it is to commit, because bailing is 2nd nature now.


Thats exactly what i was thinking to do, all i have to do now is get out and ride and hopefully stick these [email protected] soon enough


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## jimage (Dec 22, 2006)

im just starting to get them abit better myself and ive found that if you use your legs to balance not the arms and just practice load


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