# Which frame is best for the Rohloff hub



## punchy (Sep 30, 2008)

Hello fellow bikers,

My first post  

Anyways, Ive been doing a bit of research on the Rohloff hub in the past month and love the concept of it. My riding consists of mainly to work and back, but i like to occassionally go to a local up hill section to work a bit of power into the old legs and improve my fitness.

Ive been doing my head in trying to find the right set up. Im after a bike that is built for speed but is also durable enough for the odd bump and slight detour off road, be it in short bursts.

Ive been informed that a Vertical/adjustable drop out is best with a 135mm spacing. This seems to be a rare set up and hard to find. I live in Adelaide Australia and the type of frames im looking at are not readily available.

Some frames ive looked at are Vassago, (american and pricy to get one here in OZ), Voo doo frames, (Haven't been able to locate a frame dealer here in OZ yet, although apparently there is a dealer located in Melbourne somewhere). Ive looked at many other bikes in general.

Another one ive considered which is readily available is the KHS solo one. It has I think a slider Horiontal drop out design and has been mentioned as a good set up for the Rohloff hub.

My goal is to set up the hub hopefully without a tensioner and simplify it as much as possible.

ANY suggestions on bikes/frames/bike dealers appreciated. Im a noob and in a very much a 'learning process' in regards to all these bike set ups. 

Cheers

Stathis


----------



## bolandjd (Jul 23, 2008)

I don't have any particular expertise with internal gears, but you might take a look at the offerings from Surly. The frame prices are quite reasonable - much less expensive than Voodoo or Vassago. The 1X1 is a 26" mountain frame, the Karate Monkey is a 29" mountain frame, and the Cross Check is a 700c cyclo-cross frame. All of those frames have either track ends or horizontal dropouts, so should work quite well with an internal gear hub without a tensioner. And all of those frames are well suited for a fast commuter bike that will also handle trails. All of those frame come with a rigid fork and the 1X1 and Karate Monkey are suspension corrected if you want to go with a suspension fork instead. Also, the 1X1 and the Monkey can use either rim brakes or disc brakes; the Cross Check can only use rim brakes. The Karate Monkey and the Cross Check have a derailer hanger, if you decide in the future to use a rear derailer, but the 1X1 is single speed only.


----------



## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

As cool as the Rohloff is (and I have one, I know how cool they are), for primarily commuter use, even with a bit of dirt and hills, you could get away with an Alfine or SRAM iMotion 9 for 1/4 the cost and have a reliable drivetrain. A bike with sliding dropouts or an EBB will get you a tensioner-less setup.


----------



## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

The choices are:

- Vertical drop outs, works well, requires chain tensioner
- EBB, no chain tensioner, many users complain about creaking
- Horizontal dropouts, no sliders. Works well with add on "chain tuggers".
- Horizontal dropouts with sliders. This solution is the most elegant (IMHO). If I was spending US$1500 on a Rolhoff hub, I'd go for a frame with built-in sliders.


----------



## prude (Nov 18, 2005)

bolandjd said:


> I don't have any particular expertise with internal gears, but you might take a look at the offerings from Surly. The frame prices are quite reasonable - much less expensive than Voodoo or Vassago. The 1X1 is a 26" mountain frame, the Karate Monkey is a 29" mountain frame, and the Cross Check is a 700c cyclo-cross frame. All of those frames have either track ends or horizontal dropouts, so should work quite well with an internal gear hub without a tensioner. And all of those frames are well suited for a fast commuter bike that will also handle trails. All of those frame come with a rigid fork and the 1X1 and Karate Monkey are suspension corrected if you want to go with a suspension fork instead. Also, the 1X1 and the Monkey can use either rim brakes or disc brakes; the Cross Check can only use rim brakes. The Karate Monkey and the Cross Check have a derailer hanger, if you decide in the future to use a rear derailer, but the 1X1 is single speed only.


 I have built more various bikes, with just about every internal hub out there, than I care to mention.
I built a 1X1 for my wife with an 8R25 Nexus, one for myself with the same(soon to be Alfine/UST), a Karate Monkey with an 8C20 Nexus(coaster-brake), an Instigator with a Rohloff/Soulcraft Convert tensioner(never throws the chain), and I'm fixin' to barf out ANOTHER 1X1 with a bolt-on Rohloff, as well as a Salsa El Mariachi/i-Motion 9 rig.
So far, I would have to say that the 1X1 AND the Karate Monkey are stellar frames for internal hubs. I am, however, curious to check out both the iM-9 and the El Mariachi. The vertical dropouts on the 'Mariachi should make for alot easier in/out of the rear wheel. As far as the "creaking"; I always tell customers to apply Nev R Seize to all mating surfaces, and torque properly.


----------



## punchy (Sep 30, 2008)

Thanks for your feed back guys. They are all very good options and I have looked at them. I would love a Surly but it would throw my budget out of wack. I also don't think those frames would allow me to run the Rohloff without a tensioner, unless im mistaken.

I would like to run disc brakes and the option of having cyclo cross rims, or 700c. Which limits me a little more.

Rockyuphill, I know of the Alfine and Imotion 9. But their range of gearing is'nt as broad as the Rohloff. Imotion for e.g has a 340% range where as the Alfine I think is around 306%. Compared to 526% for the Rohloff ! This is an important consideration to my bike build as I want the bike to meet most of my needs in one bike. Which is minimal maintenance with the capability to climb say a 15 degree hill (very low gear required). My commute to work will need a reasonably high gear also as i will be cruising between 30 and 35 km/h. Im not sure if the imotion 9 or Alfine will be able to cover all this criteria. Ive ridden a bike with a Nexus 8 speed and the low gear definetly did'nt feel low enough to climb the hill I generally climb. Not with my current fitness level anyway lol. Which is actually ok, its just that the hill is very steep !

I have a bike in consideration which has the ideal drop outs as Pursuiter has mentioned being the horizontal drop out BB with sliders. This is the bike...

http://khsbicycles.dirtworks.com.au/index.php/2008-bikes/mtb-29inch/solo-one

Its priced at $699 and will fit into my budget, has 32 spoke wheels, which apparently is ideal to lace up the Rohloff hub to.

Do you guys think this is a good bike or should I look elsewhere ?

Cheers

Punchy


----------



## prude (Nov 18, 2005)

The KHS looks like a good option, but the adjustable caliper mount design on the Surlys is a good bit better; less likely for the caliper to "migrate". The dropouts are otherwise functionally the same as on a 1X1, Karate Monkey, or Pugsley; save for the derailleur hanger on the latter two.
Typically, a 29er cannot be safely or functionally equipped with 26" wheels. It drops the bottom bracket WAY too much. However, a 1X1 can easily be fitted with 650b, 650c, or 700c wheels; with clearance for a tyre up to about 35-45mm+ on a 700c.
As for a tensioner: The dropouts are horizontal, rear-facing; so the only tensioner you would have to run would be something along the lines of a "TuggNut", to keep the axle in place if you have a regular QR axle. I would recommend purchasing the bolt-on Rohloff, since the exclusion of the spring tensioner in the kit reduces the price a bit.


----------



## bolandjd (Jul 23, 2008)

As far as I know, versatile, quality framesets don't come any less expensively than Surly, at least here in the USA. But if what you are really looking for is a complete bike to retrofit the Rohloff onto, than I would guess that the best value for the money is the Redline Monocog (again, at least in the USA). But lots of OEMs have relatively inexpensive single speed rigid 29er's that should work.


----------



## cathyandrob (Mar 8, 2006)

Punchy,

I have similar requirements to you but I have several bikes so one bike doesn't have to do everything for me.

If you want a gear system that will do everything from commuting, touring, any offroad you want to do, a Rohloff is probably the only thing that will do it all. I have commuted with mine, towed the kids tag-a-long bike to the park and will do the Scott 24hr with it in Canberra this W/E.

The drawbacks are that it is damn expensive in Aus, will be a bit slower to commute on and it's a bit heavy. But it will last virtually forever.

The Rohloff will cost more than the rest of the bike, if you are looking at a solo one or a Karate Monkey.

You should decide if a Rohloff is what you want, and then get a frame etc, and if the frame is not right get a different one. Sort of building a bike from the hub up, rather than the frame up as is the usual way. Get a disc Rohloff and even if you don't start with discs you can use them in 15 years when your first frame wears out.

I have used mine in a Niner SIR9 and have it on my Karate Monkey now. Either is good but I have a soft spot for the KM, you can do virtually anything with it, you can't kill it with a stick and reasonable cheap.

Can't speak for the KHS, but it is probably a decent basic Taiwanese steel frame similar to many others.

That's my spray. And some pics.

Rob


----------



## punchy (Sep 30, 2008)

Thanks for the pics Rob. They are very helpful. A Rohloff hub is definetly what I want. I have considered an Alfine and Imotion 9. Especially the imotion 9, but i can't help thinking that once i bought any of those mentioned that I would always have the Rohloff in the back of my mind. And if i do come across scenarions where i was limited by those 2 hubs i would be kicking myself.

I know how expensive the Rohloff is, I cringe at paying the full $1,800 quoted price, but I have located a bike dealer in Melbourne (EPX bikes) who have informed me they have 2002 Rohloff hubs in stock and is willing to sell a disc compatible QR model for around $1,100. This is of course with out a dog bone and shifter, which he has to track down and adds extra to the price. Evan there seems very helpful, although I must admit I have rang him a few times and he is probably getting a little frustrated with all my questions lol. He says the hub is a brand new/old stock model and assures me they are absolutely fine. He claims his probably had issues with maybe 2 out of 100 hubs sold, which sounds like a pretty good track record for just about any product.

He also has a Rohloff hub built into Mavic 317 disc compatible 26 inch rims with a Magura hub up front for $1,200. That sounds like a bargain to me. I considered buying that package and adapting it to my current Avanto Monatri (2001 model), but unfortunately my bike is'nt disc compatible. The problem with that set up too is that it has 26 inch rims which rules out a 29er or 700c rim compatible bikes such as the Solo one or Karate monkey as you guys highly recommend.

So I can either go for a 26 inch bike, or stick with my prefered 29er set up. But getting back to the Karate Monkey as you guys seem to rave about, i will definetly consider one if i can afford one. I have rang a local dealer to get a price a few days ago. But no feedback yet.

Rob are you able to inform me how much you paid for your Karate Monkey or how much i should expect to pay ? I have to also think about rims, head stem, forks, cranks etc. It all adds up.

I really like the set of your rear wheel though.It looks like a straight forward set up, with no tensioner. Just how I want it. Although ive been told that a horizontal set up like the Monkey is'nt ideal for a Rohloff hub with QR. Do you have any issues with yours ? If your set up works fine then I may consider it.

I have also been refered to this bike, which is tempting, but unfortunately has an Alfine hub, but has just about everthing else I want, being a Ducati fan. Pricy though. $2,500 !

http://www.bianchi.com/en/productsDucati2009/Model_Street_PanigaleAlfine.aspx

Cheers

Steve


----------



## cathyandrob (Mar 8, 2006)

Steve,

I spoke to EPX about a Rohloff a while ago but ended up getting one from someone else, But he seems fair dinkum and a friend of mine has bought 2 Rohloffs from him and they have been good.

If you are trying to get a speed bone, an alternative is one of these

http://www.cyclemonkey.com/monkey_bone.shtml

which I have on my KM, best seen in the second pic, it is like a modified rear disc adapter that has been machined to accept the OEM plate of the Rohloff so you dont need a speed bone. If you search on mtbr you will find more info.

I paid about $400 for a new old stock KM frame on ebay in sydney, a bit lucky. A friend bought one 2 weeks ago on ebay in melbourne for about $500. If you cruise ebay for a while you might get lucky, but 29ers in general are getting more popular compared to when I bought mine. You could also put a wanted ad on mtbr with a link in the Aust forum.

Another option is just to guy one from USA, either a Vassago or a KM or a Redline monocog. If you cruise the online stores you can get reasonable shipping rates. Redline have a dealer in aust (can't remember who) and that would probably be the cheapest way to get a frame new. But that solo one is good value. If you can get a complete bike in aust and put the Rohloff in it, that would be the cheapest way.

You can use horizontal dropouts with a Rohloff but you need the QR done up tight and you need a good one, Shimano are probably the best for getting really tight. If you have to you can use a surly tugnut or similar. I have used mine a fair bit and have had no problems. EBB is neater and more elegant, more expensive generally and moves the cranks a bit if you adjust the chain.

Try to have no tensioner if you can (ie get a SS style frame), much more satisfying.

Hope this helps,

Rob


----------



## punchy (Sep 30, 2008)

Rob

Thanks for the tip on the Monkey bone. I will look into it. Getting a frame from USA would probably cost a bit.

Ive come across another bike which seems to suit pretty well...

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEq...ikes/08CentrumSport_UK_l.jpg&equipmodel=Globe Centrum Sport

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=34073

Its an '08' Specialised Globe centrum. The rear bracket is vertical and adjustable. The bike shown is a single speed in Matt black. It was actually on sale about a month ago at J.T cycles. I could have got for around $700 if i remember correctly. I did test ride it in the shimano 3 speed and it rode quite well.

The model im actually thinking of is the '09' model. But it only comes in silver in the single speed. The 3 speed comes in a gloss black, i checked it out yesterday, and I loved the look of it in that color. Unfortunately though that color is'nt available in single speed. the '09' model is actually the same as the 08 model except for color options. Doh !

The bike seems like a good donor bike for the Rohloff hub, but it now retails at $929. Although as a complete bike it is not too bad. It only has the 26 inch rims, with road spec tyres. But i may have to compromise.

What do you's think ? is it a good option ?

Cheers

Punchy


----------



## cathyandrob (Mar 8, 2006)

Punchy,

That specialised seems reasonable, and probably would suit you Ok, but I am a bit of a 29er zealot and with 26" wheels it would be bit slower on the road than a 700C bike. Also full Al frame and fork could be harsh if you go on rough stuff. You would need big fat tyres to cushion the ride, so you should check the rear stay spacing, I suspect you wouldn't be able to get 50mm or more tyres in there.

I get the feeling you are making too many compromises with that frame, but it's what is important and affordable for you that matters.

Given that you are fixed on the rohloff, why not get it and put it in your existing 26er mtb, live with the rim brakes, use the rohloff tensioner or something similar and wait till a good cheap 29er frame his ebay, which one will eventually.

You can get used to the rohloff, not spend all your money on a frame and you can buy bits as you see them at reasonable prices.

I couldn't do that, I'm too impatient but maybe you could.

Rob


----------



## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

I'm thinking about Misfit 29er frame with sliders, only $350 shipped to the US (might be an additional ~$30 in customs/broker fees). Misfit is in Canada, Commonweathers might not have any extra fees?

http://www.psyclestore.com/

Here's a Ti 29er off the shelf, with sliders, Universal has the frame only for ~$1100, head angle is little steep:
http://www.voodoocycles.net/08_zaka.htm


----------



## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

punchy said:


> ...I have a bike in consideration which has the ideal drop outs as Pursuiter has mentioned being the horizontal drop out BB with sliders. This is the bike...
> 
> http://khsbicycles.dirtworks.com.au/index.php/2008-bikes/mtb-29inch/solo-one
> 
> ...


Those aren't sliders, they're tuggers. Nothing wrong with 'em, just ugly. I have a set on my Motobecane Outcast 29er frame. If you're looking at the KHS, have a look at the Motorbecane Outcast 29er, similar bike, only $400:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/outcast29_08.htm

Both bikes can't use a rear disc, you're stuck with a v-brake. The front fork can be replaced with a Surly/Salsa disc fork (or a suspension fork).


----------



## slaw (Apr 6, 2004)

Hi Punchy, just noticed this thread. Here in Melbourne I know you can get Voodoo frames from BSC . I've also seen Redlines in there, as well as Surly and Salsa which should be available anywhere in OZ. Look at the distributor's website. On-one is another frame brand that has frames that suit Rohloffs. Sometimes they come up on ebay.

I was lucky to get a complete Rohloff bike off ebay, but before that I was considering getting an On-one frame to build up. Nowadays there seems to be a lot more single-speed and hub geared bikes available off the shelf which would make good conversions.

Aussie dollar has taken such a dive that buying off-shore could be prohibitive, though bike store prices here are set to rise across the board. Maybe best to keep an eye out for something second-hand?


----------



## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

punchy said:


> ...This is an important consideration to my bike build as I want the bike to meet most of my needs in one bike...


If you consider you're getting ready to drop $2500 on a single bike, for that much $$ you could have a road IGH bike and a MTB IGH bike. Each would have a gear range suited for it's task. The MTB with an Alfine 32/22 and a road bike with Alfine and 38/20. The one size fits all never worked for me.


----------



## punchy (Sep 30, 2008)

Thats a good point Pursuiter.

The Rohloff is mighty expensive. Im having a tough time finding the right set up at a BARGAIN price. Retail is about $1,800 !

Im in no rush. It probably won't happen until early next year. I will see how I go. But point taken.

There is also the Imotion 9 SRAM which has 340 % range compared to the Alfines 306%

Although the Rohloff at 526% is very tempting.

Cheers

Punchy


----------



## ALMEIDA (Mar 23, 2008)

cathyandrob said:


> And some pics
> 
> Rob


Hello !!
Don't you have any problems with your rear wheel because of using the horizontal dropouts and the quick release version?
Also the lever of the oem2 axleplate seems a little bit dangerous for me.The lever pushes the wheel back and forth.


----------



## prude (Nov 18, 2005)

Whatever route you take, I would HIGHLY recommend building frame-up. I pretty much gave up on complete bikes, for the most part, when I was working at a bike shop about 8 1/2 years ago. Granted, it's easier when you get parts at dealer cost; but the pay sucks, and you get deals on complete bikes, too. IMO, it's worth saving your pennies to ensure that all components are top-notch, and suit your purposes exactly as you had hoped. Complete bikes ALWAYS skimp out somewhere; even high-end ones. When you find a need to upgrade something, it will always cost you more than it would've had you spec'd it out the way you want to begin with. It also helps to have friends/acquaintances who are(really, truthfully) familiar with building bikes/wheels. ;>) I imagine there must be a rich bike sub-culture where you live in OZ; go out on rides, have some fun, drink some beers, and meet some new mates who can at least help ya with bringing everything together.
Sweet pics, Rob! She resembles me own dear, sweet Sheldon. Soon as I can get it worked out, I wanna post some of mine. ;>)


----------



## Hillsy (Jan 31, 2006)

if you get a frame with horizontal dropouts and if you want to use fenders. You may have to take off the fenders before you can get the wheel off........to say.........change a flat.


----------



## prude (Nov 18, 2005)

I read about a clever solution to that; on the Surly forum, I think.
Get SKS fenders that have the breakaway fender stay fitting. Mount the breakaway fittings to the rear fender; as opposed to the front, for which I believe they were intended. When you go to change a flat, just pop the fender stays out of the breakaways. I never use 'em anyway; none of my Surlys have fenders. Well, except for my wife's 1X1, which has fairly abbreviated Planet Bike fenders, so it's not an issue. I think there are some other brands with breakaway stay fittings; it may be regulatory in Europe...


----------



## finger51 (Jul 21, 2006)

Just got my Retrotec Twin this morning. Integrated torque tab & eccentric BB ready to rock the rohlly. Can't wait for the wheels to get laced up!


----------



## prude (Nov 18, 2005)

GORGEOUS!!!
What was the damage, may I ask?


----------



## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Hillsy said:


> if you get a frame with horizontal dropouts and if you want to use fenders. You may have to take off the fenders before you can get the wheel off........to say.........change a flat.


Mine is fine, I run the wheel in the middle of the dropouts and I don't have the fender 1mm away from the tire. Wheel comes off without adjusting the fender. However, I still can't change a flat on the road with ease, the Nexus drum brake and Alfine/Nexus cassette joint kill any hope.


----------



## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

finger51 said:


> Just got my Retrotec Twin this morning....


That is beautiful, give us details! (Ti, Steel, fork selection, intended use)


----------



## prude (Nov 18, 2005)

I usually rig the rear wheel to avoid flats for IGH; Rohloff and Alfine aren't too bad, though. I've been thinking about carrying Dirt Worm tubes for spares, if they even still exist...


----------



## finger51 (Jul 21, 2006)

prude said:


> GORGEOUS!!!
> What was the damage, may I ask?


"The Damage" was about what you'd expect from a hand made two-tone custom fillet brazed frame with all the bells and whistles. . .

40th B-day present to myself.


----------



## finger51 (Jul 21, 2006)

pursuiter said:


> That is beautiful, give us details! (Ti, Steel, fork selection, intended use)


Hi Thanks~

My first custom bike. 29'er, mostly 4130 CroMo, fillet brazed. Going to be putting a Reba on it. Maybe a Fox later on after my bank account recovers. It was a tough decision going suspension- I really love the look of a non-suspension corrected frame but that's where the love ends. My wrists can't handle a rigid fork unless I'm on pavement.
It's kind of a 'Cadillac' build. I mostly hit fire roads in Marin headlands and Mt. Tam. To get anything really technical I need to drive, and I hate driving. Tamarancho has some decent single track (switchbacks and plenty of 'em) so I try to get up there as often as I can.
She'll be heavy once done. The shock, rohloff, brooks, eccentric etc. will probably total up to around 30 pounds? Like I said, 'Cadillac'. 
I'll post her up when she's done and rolling.


----------



## punchy (Sep 30, 2008)

Hi guys.

Im hoping the same people that posted on here when I first got this thread going are still reading this, because you's gave me some great ideas. And of course, i hope more jump on here and help me out.

Its been a while since I posted because basically, I put the project on hold. Why ? Well, I decided to purchase a cheap single speed bike to get me around until I figured out what to do about the Rohloff. I now have an SE Lager which Ive been thoroughly enjoying, to the point that Ive realised i dont need gears !

But...I now have a new project. So Im now going back to this thread because I once again have discovered that I DO need the Rohloff equipped commuter bike. Well, its my prefered option anyway. And that project just so happens to be a trip through Belgium and France next May (2010). As much as Id love to single speed it (fixed of course), its just too much to ask of the bike when your loaded up with panniers and taking on steep hills.

So im now back with this project, and not alot has changed in regards to what my aim is, although there are now a couple more options out there and im just a little more clued up.

The bikes I have singled out are the Surly cross check or travellers check. The Cross check does everything I want it to do except that it doesnt cater for discs. But thats fine, because I would prefer to run rim brakes on the back and I can change the front fork to one that accomodates a disc front end, which id like to have. The travellers check would be more of what I want again, but problem there is that they are pricy, and a second hand one seems extremely hard to find. In fact I havent been abale to track down any  The thing I especially like about the 2 frames mentioned in this paragraph is the fact that they have a 132.5mm spacing on the rear. Great versatility. It can cater for a Rohloff hub as well as road derailer gearing, or even single speed should I choose to go that way when not on touring trips  And just for the record, I have heard or read somewhere that Rohloff is working on a 130mm spaced and lighter hub, if and when this comes out I have no idea. But if it does, I will at least know that my frame will cater for it.

Ive also considered the Salsa El Mariachi. I love the fact that it has high grade steel, and from what I can see and read on it, seems to cater well for a Rohloff hub. My only concern is will it fit 700c wheels. Or are there 29er wheels that can do the job, like say fit 28c or 32c tyres which is my preferred choice. I would LOVE to have a frame with an EBB ! I know there is the Fargo, but I personally think its not ideal, firstly 6 bottle cages I think is overkill. My commute in Europe will easily cater for plenty of water. It is afterall, Europe ! You can literally find taps hanging off mountain walls which gush out plenty of well sourced water fresh from the mountains themselves. Im not sure how that sloping top tube will affect the mounting of pannier racks ?

Now the next bike im going to mention has recently grabbed my attention, its new to me and seems to be fairly new to bikes generally. Which is the Vassago Fisticuff. Its also is apparently getting a dedicated rear pannier rack which will be available for it in the near future which has a 60lb carrying capacity. It also has 132.5 mm rear spacing which really appeals to me. Details here...http://vassagocycles.com/fisty.html

There are plenty of others, Like for example the Salsa La cruz. Oh how id love it if that bike had 132.5mm spacing, and either horizontal drop outs or an EBB, but the biggest flaw on it for me is that it just doesnt cater for single spped or internal gear hubs,otherwise I really love the look of that bike. But its unfortunatley not built ofr my needs.

Im hoping you guys can give me some feed back, especially on the Fisticuff Vassago, as I unable to find much info on it.

Cheers

Steve


----------



## bolandjd (Jul 23, 2008)

Punchy,
Here's my thoughts: You probably don't want to put a disc fork on the cross check since the frame itself wasn't designed for those torsional loads. I know people do it and it probably works fine for most, but I guess it would fall into the category of "not officially recommended". I don't know how you feel about that sort of thing.

I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but are you aware that 29er wheels and 700c wheels are the same thing? The 29 inch measurement includes the wheel _and_ the tire (its not really 29 inches, but that's another story). So, yeah, 700c wheels will fit on any 29er. Actually, with disc brakes, an size wheel smaller than 700c will fit on a 29er frame too for that matter. The stock rims of a 29er, OTOH, might be too wide to run 28c tires. If you are building frame up, that wouldn't be a problem, of course.

Fisticuff looks perfect for your needs. On Black Friday, they ran a one-day sale and sold the frameset for like $240. I think they are back to full price now, but if you can wait a little bit, they might put it back on sale maybe after Christmas or something.

You might be interested in the Singular Pererine - http://www.singularcycles.com/peregrine.html - has an EBB, disc brake mounts, real lugs, and looks so so awesome. I'd buy one tomorrow if I didn't already have a Long Haul Trucker.

The Rawland Drakkar is another awesome looking frame that would fit your need perfectly - http://www.rawlandcycles.com/store/index.php?strWebAction=item_detail&intItemID=3878. It is a bit more expensive than the Peregrine and doesn't have an EBB. But it is made with some fancy steel and the bi-plane fork and those dragon-shaped dropouts are to die for.

Good luck with your Rohloff project.


----------



## richdirector (Apr 25, 2007)

punchy said:


> H... I DO need the Rohloff equipped commuter bike. Well, its my prefered option anyway. And that project just so happens to be a trip through Belgium and France next May (2010). ...
> Im hoping you guys can give me some feed back, especially on the Fisticuff Vassago, as I unable to find much info on it.


A surly Big Dummy with Rohloff would be a stable globe eating touring bike

Rich


----------



## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Considering how expensive airline bike travel is becoming, I'd get a Traveler's check and put a front disc brake fork on it. The Dimension fork is a perfect match, same rake, same axle to crown dimension:
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=6995&category=704

Otherwise a custom Gunner.

If you're short of money, I'd get the Travel's Check and an im9, then get a Rohloff when I was flush with cash. im9 is nice on the road and cost 20% the Rohloff.


----------



## doco (Aug 31, 2008)

Hi punchy, here is a company that designs and sells bikes and frames specifically for Rohloff's only......check out the Thorn Sterling mt frame...every option you could ask for and designed for a rohloff

also the frame and fork was about the same as a surly(last years currency conversion)

also Vik here on these forums owns a nomad model

http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/ravensterling.html
T h o r n C y c l e s L t d.

http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/models.html
T h o r n C y c l e s L t d.


----------



## punchy (Sep 30, 2008)

Far out ! I wrote a reply in detail to all the above recent posts, only to load up another site and erasing all the good work i wrote ! Doh !

I cant be bothered re writing it all right now.

What I will say though is i have researched all the above links and hints. The 2 frames that appeal to me is the Vassago Fisticuff, and the Singular Peregrine. Both are bloody awsome ! However I kow they will be pricy and landing them here will be even more costly and also will probably take a while on a ship container. I will look into them though at some point to see what my options are.

I have tracked down some 'affordable' bikes locally. Problem may be however, do they have the model in stock ? As they may not stock all of the range.

These are a few examples...

This bike has 132.5mm spacing on the rear. Ideal. Only gripes are it may not have a low enough granny gear to tackle steep hills, possibly ? Also it isn't lugged, but I think i can live without that for now  I could use the gearing set up to save costs in the short term and up grade to a Rohloff at a later date, or when the gears wear out.

http://www.masibikes.com/steel/speciale-randonneur/

There is the same frame in a SS, I could convert to a Rohloff straight up, will cost more when finished, but I'll have what I want.

http://www.masibikes.com/fixed/speciale-commuter/

My basic knowledge of Masi is that they were originally Italian. later bought by an american company and frames are now built in asia. Unless im mistaken ? Apparently they are not as well made as they used to be, but surely they are still a decent bike. Unless of course, someone has more info on the company. Personally, I love the look of them, and to me they look like they are built well enough. I couldnt spot any flaws in them in the LBS with my novice eye.

Any thoughts guys ?

Cheers

Steve


----------



## bolandjd (Jul 23, 2008)

The Prairie Peddler is the US distributor for Singular, so you don't have to pay crazy international shipping to get it. http://theprairiepeddler.blogspot.com/ I think the framesets are $590, so that's Surly/Vassago territory.

Masi is owned by Haro. The only connection with the original is the copyright to the brand name. Maybe some people say they are not as well made as they used to be, but I think that's unfair. They are just not handbuilt by an Italien master craftsman anymore. They are just as good, and maybe even a little better, than any other mass produced bike and usually get pretty good reviews in the slicks. In fact, the current Bicycle Times (from the same folks who put out Dirt Rag) has a great write up on the Masi Randonneur, if you want to check that out. I don't think the Masi's have disc brakes, though.

Here's a frame made explicitly for the Rohloff, if you're interested. http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/tout-terrain.asp

If you're a "Made in the USA" kind of guy, there's always Q-Ball http://www.qballbikes.com/qframe.html


----------



## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*There is this Lenz Revolution*

which handles a Rohloff really well. It was raced in the NorCal High School Championships to 3rd place. It pivots around the bottom bracket. No tensioner required. Pretty slick.


----------



## richdirector (Apr 25, 2007)

Berkeley Mike said:


> which handles a Rohloff really well. It was raced in the NorCal High School Championships to 3rd place. It pivots around the bottom bracket. No tensioner required. Pretty slick.


Very sweet - if the whole sliding dropout came off and the rear split - a carbon belt drive would make this the perfect ride and forget bike.


----------

