# Steel is Lighter?....SRAM XG999 Cassette



## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

I'm sure this is old news, but I just got this in yesterday from QBP. It's a mixture of good and bad news for me. The weight is very good and the quality apppears to be outstanding, BUT the interface between the cassette and freehub body is not what I was hoping for: It only has engagement splines on the largest and smallest cogs. My hope was, that because it was milled from solid billet steel, that the entire cassette would have those splines thereby dispersing the load more evenly over the freeehub body. This is a good thing for the Al Tune Mag freebub body to avoid distortion of the freehub. I saw a while back that you can mitigate against this mashing by inserting cut staples in the spaces between the cassette spline and the freehub spline, but that seems like a PITA.
At any rate, the weight is good and it's all shiney. I like a shiney cassette because they clearly shift better


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

Axis,

Thanks for posting the real world weight and facts..









I'm looking to purchase the XG999 as soon as BTI gets them in stock...
​


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

I've been waiting for this for some time but those engagment splines make me think twice again. Thanks for pointing this out. Is this the same for the XX cassette?


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2003)

I've been running a 999 on a alum cassette body for about 50 miles so far. I checked it just yesterday and did not see any damage yet. It does work great in the mud. Any mud or grit easily works between the cogs and into the hollowed out center area.


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

They only offer this at 11-32 right? I really hope they come out with a 11-34.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

morrisgarages said:


> They only offer this at 11-32 right? I really hope they come out with a 11-34.


This is another good agrument for a triple setup up front


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Any mud or grit easily works between the cogs and into the hollowed out center area.


..and stays there?


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## FiCaçador (Jan 25, 2010)

Sure that cassete will never meet my rear hub, even if it weighed 10g! Sram has to find a better way to make a cassete better than XTR.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

quax said:


> Is this the same for the XX cassette?


???


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Yes the XX cassette uses the same method of splines, only the 11T steel and the largest cog (alloy) have splines. Each is thicker thru the splines than the white industries singlespeed cogs are, and those are fully approved for alloy freehub bodies under much greater torque loads than any geared cassette cog tends to see.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

FiCaçador said:


> Sure that cassete will never meet my rear hub, even if it weighed 10g! Sram has to find a better way to make a cassete better than XTR.


Can you elaborate on your position so that we may benefit?


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> Yes the XX cassette uses the same method of splines, only the 11T steel and the largest cog (alloy) have splines. Each is thicker thru the splines than the white industries singlespeed cogs are, and those are fully approved for alloy freehub bodies under much greater torque loads than any geared cassette cog tends to see.


Good to hear. Thanks for the info. because I'd like not to destroy a very expensive freehub body.


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## eric512 (Jan 27, 2006)

I saw this cassette at my local shop too. I was shocked as well to see the very small contact point between the cassette and the free hub body. My Al hub shell would certainly get torn up with this interface. Very scary in my opinion.


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## FiCaçador (Jan 25, 2010)

Axis II said:


> Can you elaborate on your position so that we may benefit?


Simple. I would prefer to have a heavier cassete than a lighter one that destroys freehub body.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

FiCaçador said:


> Simple. I would prefer to have a heavier cassete than a lighter one that destroys freehub body.


I think this concern is quite a bit overblown. It looks like a thick spline. And since it is a single unit - cogs will not get misaligned, even if it is gauged a little bit.


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## eric512 (Jan 27, 2006)

Curmy said:


> I think this concern is quite a bit overblown. It looks like a thick spline. And since it is a single unit - cogs will not get misaligned, even if it is gauged a little bit.


True the cogs won't be misaligned - but the cassette will be dug into the free hub body, and very hard to remove. (maybe.....)

I know that in a XTR cassette - each cog has its own splines. Each of them individually can dig into a Al free hub - I've seen it on my C King. Ones that are used more dig in more. The XTR has the larger cogs attached in pairs - the smaller ones are separate.

The problem with this SRAM is that ANY cog in use will always dig into the spline under the largest cog.

I don' t know if an XTR cassette will actually distribute the load of one cog to splines under adjacent cogs - but it probably would.


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## scooter916 (Jan 2, 2006)

this cassette wont destroy a freehub body, its the same as the RED road cassettes and we have a few guys at our shop that put out some serious power and it they have yet to get stuck or kill freehubs. one of the designs with this cassette is that when you tighten the lockring to the proper torque the sleeve gets compressed and it will grip the splines


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Interesting thread - i remember when SRAM introduced the RED cassette i had the same concerns and guys like D8 became pretty offensive against me stating i would tell lies or horror scenarios about a product i don't even know...talking bad about competition...anyway - i got pretty bad comments from asking if such a design might be good for freehub bodies. Now, a couple years later we can say that on roadbikes the design has shown no problems in this aspect. I personally still wouldn't want any RED cassettes as they make a horrible noise when ridden. The hollowed body acts like a loudspeaker transferring all rattling or all contact from steel to steel between chain and cog directly to your ears....it really sounds as if your drivetrain is worn or like you would have a dry chain all the time. 

I hear from pretty bad mud compatibility with the XX cassettes. If this specific design is the culprit or the 10s...i don't know. But we had some pretty bad mud races over here and i have heard a lot of different comments. I haven't seen or wittnessed the circumstances in person but when racers tell me they had completely clogged drivetrains using the XX i have some questionmarks.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

The mud clogging is the 10 speeds, not the one-piece machining. Every successive increase in the number of cogs in the rear cluster has performed poorer in thick goopy mud than the incarnation before it. 7speed was worse than 6, 8 is worse than 7, and so on. Shrinking the distance between cogs and narrowing the width of the chains leaves less and less space for mud to work its way into the drivetrain. I would not be surprised to see racers running 10 speed setups to be employing a crud claw on their bikes.


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## wannabeRacer (Feb 9, 2004)

I think my next gear setup would be 6 speed.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> The mud clogging is the 10 speeds, not the one-piece machining. Every successive increase in the number of cogs in the rear cluster has performed poorer in thick goopy mud than the incarnation before it. 7speed was worse than 6, 8 is worse than 7, and so on. Shrinking the distance between cogs and narrowing the width of the chains leaves less and less space for mud to work its way into the drivetrain. I would not be surprised to see racers running 10 speed setups to be employing a crud claw on their bikes.


Nicely said. This is off tpoic, but I've been saying the same thing to people around here who would be very quick to jump on the 10 speed band wagon. Personally, I think an 8-speed drivetrain is the best possible balance between gear options and robust performance/durability. Not so long ago you rarely, if ever, heard of anyone breaking a 7 or 8 speed chain. Now it's a relatively common experience for people to have a 9 speed chain failure. I can only imagine that 10 speed will be that much worse.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

wannabeRacer said:


> I think my next gear setup would be 6 speed.


Many people around here are running 1 x 6 setups and love them. My Tune SingleSpeeder rear hub allows enough room for a six on the freehub. You get a stronger wheel with zero dish and excellent chainline and you still have some decent gears to play with.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

I have NEVER broken an 8speed chain while riding. I have however broken two 9speed chains (a shimano and then a kmc) on the SAME bike (29er) while doing the same thing (standing for a climb).


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

Where have you broken them?


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## Andrea138 (Mar 25, 2009)

FWIW, The SRAM Red road cassettes are similar. Mr. 138 & I have & have had them on several sets of wheels (both race and training wheels) since the group first came out & have never seen any damage from them.


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## Broseph (Nov 9, 2006)

So why doesn't someone step up and make a decently light 11/12-34 *8* speed cassette. I would run 2X8 if someone made one.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Broseph said:


> So why doesn't someone step up and make a decently light 11/12-34 *8* speed cassette. I would run 2X8 if someone made one.


Because "newer is better" and the bike industry is forever selling us what we don't need and identifying vague and dubious problems that need to be fixed with new product TO DRIVE SALES.


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## Broseph (Nov 9, 2006)

of course i realize what it is all about. i wish a smaller company could possibly put one together. i wonder if you could buy a 34 cassette sprocket and add it to the back of an 11-32 cassette and remove the smallest cog. not sure if this would work or not.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Broseph said:


> of course i realize what it is all about. i wish a smaller company could possibly put one together. i wonder if you could buy a 34 cassette sprocket and add it to the back of an 11-32 cassette and remove the smallest cog. not sure if this would work or not.


Sounds like a good idea. Probably something any decent local machinist could tackle, but we are a bit OT now due to my digressions. This would be a good thread in it's own right.


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

Really don't see what the advantages are of only engagement splines on the largest and smallest cogs, does that save weight or something ?


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Broseph said:


> So why doesn't someone step up and make a decently light 11/12-34 *8* speed cassette. I would run 2X8 if someone made one.


ActionTec makes them. But since the cogset is all titanium except for the smallest cog, and it doesn't use a carrier, you run into the already mentioned problem with alloy freehub bodies. Besides which it is still possible to find NOS Shimano M950 12-32 Ti 8 speed cassettes (they literally made millions of the things) online.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Broseph said:


> of course i realize what it is all about. i wish a smaller company could possibly put one together. i wonder if you could buy a 34 cassette sprocket and add it to the back of an 11-32 cassette and remove the smallest cog. not sure if this would work or not.


12-34 will have a smaller range and a non-uniform gap at the low end. If you need lower gearing - much easier to make front ring smaller, isn't it?


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

afraid of your freehub body ? 

preserve it with flattend staples :thumbsup:


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## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Or better, get an American Classic Disc 225 rear hub, instead of a Tune Prince that might end up broken no matter what cassette you use.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

sfer1 said:


> Or better, get an American Classic Disc 225 rear hub, instead of a Tune Prince that might end up broken no matter what cassette you use.


 yes reinforced


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

eliflap said:


> afraid of your freehub body ?
> 
> preserve it with flattend staples :thumbsup:


That's cool. I saw this posted before here. This kind of info. is what I come to this forum for.:thumbsup:


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> I would not be surprised to see racers running 10 speed setups to be employing a crud claw on their bikes.


Can you still get crud claws? I used one when I had 8 speed cassettes but they don't seem to be available anymore.

A 9 or 10 speed version would be useful to have.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

that is exactly what I have now, an American Classic Disc All Mountain rear hub (like the 225 but 12mm thrugh axle) with a XX cassette on it
perfect!


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2003)

What is the number of engagement points on the American Classis hub?


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## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> What is the number of engagement points on the American Classis hub?


http://www.amclassic.com/en/products/hubs/sixpawl.php


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## d.janci (Feb 11, 2010)

eliflap said:


> afraid of your freehub body ?
> 
> preserve it with flattend staples :thumbsup:


Hey Eliflap, it's nice to see that my trick with staples works for you and other hub/cassette combinations. My Extralite freehub is still like new after >5000km.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

since we're in the WW subforum, what's the weight of the staples


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## d.janci (Feb 11, 2010)

cca 0.15g per staple ie. 1.35g per freehub.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

d.janci said:


> Hey Eliflap, it's nice to see that my trick with staples works for you and other hub/cassette combinations. My Extralite freehub is still like new after >5000km.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## oldassracer (Mar 26, 2009)

d.janci said:


> cca 0.15g per staple ie. 1.35g per freehub.


staples rust
how about using stainless steel fishing wire?

but not sure how much that would help on those x type cassettes which only have engagement points on the outer edges of the cassette


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## d.janci (Feb 11, 2010)

They are hot-dip galvanized so no corrosion after 2 years of use but you can change it often. It's easy and cheap.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

quax said:


> Where have you broken them?


Call this bad karma or just bad luck, since this afternoon I can anwser my own question for a 10s Dura Ace :madmax: : not at the master link but at a regular link. Happened at a traffic light with lots of spectators :blush: Me falling down at zero speed must have been quite some sight


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

That sucks, but I'm not surprised at all. Not bad karma just bad engineering IMO. I think the only thing to do with 9 + 10 speed chains is to replace them VERY often if you want to mitigate against failure. It's not like chains are cheap either. They add up if you clock serious miles.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

my chain was just a few miles old. 

I always take it with a grain of salt but from browsing the web I could gather that several lawsuits are filed against Shimano over here in Europe. Why? Beacause of failure of the new DA chain. Apparently there have been some severe accidents with that new chain.

Oh man, if i lived in the U.S. I could become rich now ;-)


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Just took off the XTR cassete. The damage is not so good. The XG-999 went on TIGHT! I'll post my impressions in performance later. It will be paired with a SRAM holllow pin chain.


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## oldassracer (Mar 26, 2009)

DeeEight said:


> I have NEVER broken an 8speed chain while riding. I have however broken two 9speed chains (a shimano and then a kmc) on the SAME bike (29er) while doing the same thing (standing for a climb).


I have broken every type of chain I have ever ridden -

7, 8, 9 and 10 speed

The 7 speed chain broke just as I applied the first power stroke of a sprint
Not fun but served to remind me that doing push-ups came in handy that day as I was able to keep my body from slamming into the bars...but just barely. :eekster:

somebody needs to do an objective testing of chains

Today, different materials and construction can make a thinner chain stronger than a thicker/wider chain


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## 743power (Sep 25, 2007)

Wow, this thread went down the crapper with all the same old grumpy 8spd talk we got when xx was first introduced. Funny, because the post is about a 9 speed cassette.

Anyway, there isn't anything to worry about with that XG cassette. The red cassettes are as friendly as they get to freehubs and the xg's use the same interface. The tolerances are super precise and they do not dig at all.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

743power said:


> Wow, this thread went down the crapper with all the same old grumpy 8spd talk we got when xx was first introduced. Funny, because the post is about a 9 speed cassette.
> 
> Anyway, there isn't anything to worry about with that XG cassette. The red cassettes are as friendly as they get to freehubs and the xg's use the same interface. The tolerances are super precise and they do not dig at all.


Agreed. This post went off topic, but it's clear that this is a relevant issue. If it wasn't people wouldn't be reporting so many 9-10speed chain horror stories. Do you work for SRAM? Who do you belong to?


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## Andrea138 (Mar 25, 2009)

You don't have to work for SRAM to know that Red cassettes don't damage freehubs. Like I said earlier- my personal experience with them on several different wheels has been nothing but positive.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Andrea138 said:


> You don't have to work for SRAM to know that Red cassettes don't damage freehubs. Like I said earlier- my personal experience with them on several different wheels has been nothing but positive.


I'm very happy to hear this so that I may look forward to many happy miles on super-fantastic SRAM cassette. I was speaking to chain issues, not cassette issues.


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

by the way think on a small scale , the staples are round so the contact point of the stress is now a single thin line until the aluminum deforms,also the reason cassette to driver tolerences are so sloppy is because the area is pron(sp?) to crud build up and if dirt gets jammed in there the cassette won't be to hard to remove, with the loose fit. The cassettes that marr alloy cassettes have individual cogs that have a very small contact area(thin) ,I think the sram one piece machined cassettes have considerable more contact area,even if it is just two gears wide it's still double.It's also wide base ,hard to discribe but it seems better suited to handling stresses.The real challenge is still to make a coating for aluminum that wears like steel or delve into sci fi; make an organic coating that regenerates itself feeding on the lube and is geneticly limited to a certain thickness, tires like that would be cool too


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

herbn said:


> by the way think on a small scale , the staples are round so the contact point of the stress is now a single thin line until the aluminum deforms,also the reason cassette to driver tolerences are so sloppy is because the area is pron(sp?) to crud build up and if dirt gets jammed in there the cassette won't be to hard to remove, with the loose fit. The cassettes that marr alloy cassettes have individual cogs that have a very small contact area(thin) ,I think the sram one piece machined cassettes have considerable more contact area,even if it is just two gears wide it's still double.It's also wide base ,hard to discribe but it seems better suited to handling stresses.The real challenge is still to make a coating for aluminum that wears like steel or delve into sci fi; make an organic coating that regenerates itself feeding on the lube and is geneticly limited to a certain thickness, tires like that would be cool too


Please don't speak any more about this. I'm in discussion with Alien talent as we speak. It's all 8-speed sh*t. OK, that's enough, I've said too much.....now I will be punished with the probes.......


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

morrisgarages said:


> They only offer this at 11-32 right? I really hope they come out with a 11-34.


So confirmed no 11-34 yet?

I can definitely use a lighter cassette than the PC990 11-34 boat anchor (303g)...

wow... not cheap...  but at almost half the weight of a PC990... i'd go for this...

http://www.google.com/products?q=sram+xg999&scoring=p


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

screw it... incoming... 

this will be going on my mavic crossmax 29, with kmc x10sl chain


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

quax said:


> my chain was just a few miles old.
> 
> I always take it with a grain of salt but from browsing the web I could gather that several lawsuits are filed against Shimano over here in Europe. Why? Beacause of failure of the new DA chain. Apparently there have been some severe accidents with that new chain.
> 
> Oh man, if i lived in the U.S. I could become rich now ;-)


Curious, the link that broke, is it a link that you pinned, or factory pinned and you never touched it with a chain tool?

Sorry to hear. Chain breaks can be dangerous.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

factory pinned


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

Andrea138 said:


> You don't have to work for SRAM to know that Red cassettes don't damage freehubs. Like I said earlier- my personal experience with them on several different wheels has been nothing but positive.


You forgot to mention how noisy they are due to the hollow dome... Much noisier than a Campy bike.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

MessagefromTate said:


> You forgot to mention how noisy they are due to the hollow dome... Much noisier than a Campy bike.


correct-i already pointed out to this in a earlier reply:
"...I personally still wouldn't want any RED cassettes as they make a horrible noise when ridden. The hollowed body acts like a loudspeaker transferring all rattling or all contact from steel to steel between chain and cog directly to your ears....it really sounds as if your drivetrain is worn or like you would have a dry chain all the time."


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## d.janci (Feb 11, 2010)

herbn said:


> ...the staples are round so the contact point of the stress is now a single thin line until the aluminum deforms...


Nope :nono: Thay have square cross-section 1.3 x 0.5mm.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 25, 2009)

MessagefromTate said:


> You forgot to mention how noisy they are due to the hollow dome... Much noisier than a Campy bike.


I guess it's a little louder than other cassettes, but I've never really been bothered by it. I guess if I were a ninja by trade, it'd be totally unacceptable.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

guys, you're right, what a terrible noise


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

completely worthless comparison... a road bike on rollers...


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

MI_canuck said:


> completely worthless comparison... a road bike on rollers...


That video does not show what the cassette sounds like...it's really loud and sounds awful.I am riding with my buddy that has a Red cassette and it's really just a pain and you always think he has a dry chain or a completely worn drivetrain...just too noisy. But the MTB cassettes are more open designed if i'm not mistaken so this should not be of any concern, right?


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)




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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

nino said:


> That video does not show what the cassette sounds like...it's really loud and sounds awful.I am riding with my buddy that has a Red cassette and it's really just a pain and you always think he has a dry chain or a completely worn drivetrain...just too noisy. But the MTB cassettes are more open designed if i'm not mistaken so this should not be of any concern, right?


Hello, Nino. It's been a while. I'm surprised to hear that you are offering a criticism of a component that is in competition with a component you may be selling. Some things never change around here. How about this: I will personally P.M. you with my ride impressions after my first ride so that you will can rest easier about your decision to purchase this cassette. Personally, I hope that it IS loud so that the guy ahead of me on the single track knows when to pull left on the trail and let me by.:thumbsup:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Axis II said:


> Hello, Nino. It's been a while. I'm surprised to hear that you are offering a criticism of a component that is in competition with a component you may be selling. Some things never change around here. How about this: I will personally P.M. you with my ride impressions after my first ride so that you will can rest easier about your decision to purchase this cassette. Personally, I hope that it IS loud so that the guy ahead of me on the single track knows when to pull left on the trail and let me by.:thumbsup:


uh-it seems you didn't read my posts correct then!

I write against the RED cassette as it is really making an awful lot of noise but not against this new MTB cassette. So far noone has had any riding reports.My only concern has been the use of an aluminium cog but then it is only the biggest cog which may see less use anyway and if so the load is distributed over multiple teeth...i sure think they have done their homework though.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

nino said:


> uh-it seems you didn't read my posts correct then!
> 
> I write against the RED cassette as it is really making an awful lot of noise but not against this new MTB cassette. So far noone has had any riding reports.My only concern has been the use of an aluminium cog but then it is only the biggest cog which may see less use anyway and if so the load is distributed over multiple teeth...i sure think they have done their homework though.


Ok, thanks for the clarification. So, to be clear, you are saying that the road cassete is bad due to noise it generates; however, you like the SRAM XG-999 and recommend it. You are NOT saying that because the RED cassete is loud that this XG-999 will be loud and should be avoided. Have I understood you correctly?


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

I don't detect any bad noise from my XX cassette


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Axis II said:


> Ok, thanks for the clarification. So, to be clear, you are saying that the road cassete is bad due to noise it generates; however, you like the SRAM XG-999 and recommend it. You are NOT saying that because the RED cassete is loud that this XG-999 will be loud and should be avoided. Have I understood you correctly?


correct.
the RED is really annoying (at least it would be for me) but so far there have been no ride reports on these new 999 cassettes and since the body seems much more open designed than the Red i don't think that noise will be a problem. On a MTB noise is also less embarassing as on a roadbike where you float around in silence...while on a MTB you have much more noise anyway from the ground and dirt in the drivetrain.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

nino said:


> correct.
> the RED is really annoying (at least it would be for me) but so far there have been no ride reports on these new 999 cassettes and since the body seems much more open designed than the Red i don't think that noise will be a problem. On a MTB noise is also less embarassing as on a roadbike where you float around in silence...while on a MTB you have much more noise anyway from the ground and dirt in the drivetrain.


i just swapped a 990 cassette for a 999. it is noisier as it shifts, but nothing like
the red. part of reds issue is the og design and sram has dropped that and i expect new
red will be pg as force is.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

my 999 arrives today... that alone will put me in the 22's... woohoo!


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## Daniel_E (Apr 26, 2005)

Is the 999 available from any webshop in EU yet?


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## xcatax (Mar 26, 2009)

Daniel_E said:


> Is the 999 available from any webshop in EU yet?


I bet 299e will be his EU price ......... im happy with my 167g cassette 150e :thumbsup:


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

no, most shops announce it for €199


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## xcatax (Mar 26, 2009)

quax said:


> no, most shops announce it for €199


20 days or more


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

How's 173g suit you... 










This thing is a work of ART!!!!


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## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Is anyone using this cassette with an AC Disc 225 rear hub? If yes, did you need to use the 0.5 mm cassette spacer provided with the hub?


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

WoW..it really is !


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

xcatax said:


> 20 days or more


that's why I wrote "announced"


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

My *999 *is on it's way*..........*







*.........*
​


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

cor you beauty :thumbsup: + 2g less than SRAM had announced

i'm saving up for one too


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## fernandoj (Mar 19, 2008)

I wish I could get a XG-888.

Yes, I'm also talking about 8 speeds  . No problem at all with my retro steel freehubs


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

MI_canuck said:


> How's 173g suit you...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You take purty pictures. Did you take those pics in a light box? Nice. This casette IS a work of art. I'm excited to get out on it today for the first ride. Lot's of new stuff on my rig today to pay attention to, but I will post back later with my ride imnpressions. In the stand it shifts awesome with my new Shadow RD, SRAM hollow pin chain and the Dura Ace 9-speed/Pauls Thumbies. I noticed no noise issues shifting it in the stand.


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## AndrewTO (Mar 30, 2005)

Axis - I know this will only help so much, so please forgive the partial distraction ..... can I sell you on a 3x1?  

Ever since switching to one of these i've enjoyed more benefits than drawbacks. (subjective, of course) 

Seed planted.


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## a.m (Jun 15, 2009)

I wish they would make one in 11-34..


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

AndrewTO said:


> Axis - I know this will only help so much, so please forgive the partial distraction ..... can I sell you on a 3x1?
> 
> Ever since switching to one of these i've enjoyed more benefits than drawbacks. (subjective, of course)
> 
> Seed planted.


3 x 1?...Hmmm? I like the way you think! More pictures please! :thumbsup:


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Ok, 2.25 hours of hard 90 degree riding on the Afton course I will be racing next Sunday done. It's a decent shifting cassette. It shifts as good or better under a hard load then the XTR casette it replaces. I felt a bit queezy shifting to the 32t under hard load because of the Al issue. I'm keeping it on. The noise question was a non-issue. I'm not so enthusiastic about my new SID, however :skep:


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Which model of SID?


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

rockyuphill said:


> Which model of SID?


SID Team 2010. The floodgate for the lockout is a joke. It's not even close to the performance of my '07 Fox F80x terralogic valve.


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## AndrewTO (Mar 30, 2005)

Axis II said:


> 3 x 1?...Hmmm? I like the way you think! More pictures please! :thumbsup:


I am happy to do so. Please keep in mind that this is ME we're talking about, so there isn't much about normal that goes on between these ears (i'm pretty sure you know me well enough by now  ). I would like to think, however, that my reasoning is simple and works ..... for me.

I "thought of this myself", but found others had already tried first, of course, so I read up on a few threads here on MTBR .....

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=255166&highlight=mountainboat

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=252176

I take no credit for this other than sharing it with you now. I have enjoyed 1x8 and 1x9 drivetrains for several years of riding. I find this to be far better. I don't spend as much time shifting (and only using that gear for a few pedal strokes), the set up weighs less, I find that my bike and I are both quicker and faster (think singlespeed reasoning) and there's just less stuff to deal with now. Not that i'm lazy or unsophisticated enough to have these things in my life, but I just find all these speeds on a bike a bit ridiculous. I've commented about this recently and I don't see the need for all this crap. Everyone can have their latest and greatest - i'll stick with what works for me - plain and simple. I like to think of this as a "cheater ss" drivetrain, or a "ss with benefits" drivetrain.

Pics, not that they're a big deal (but we all love them!) .....

(pardon the "mess" - RD, heavy parts and weeds- but it's not finished yet  )


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## AndrewTO (Mar 30, 2005)

I followed the KISS principle for now, since i've only recently fallen in love with this set up and have not finished with the details yet. I'm using stock 22/32/44 chainrings up front and a wide-base 16T ss cog out back, so it's aluminum freehub sheel-friendly. Obviously the chain needs to be shorter (yay, less weight!) and one would ideally run a more appropriate tensioner like a Paul Melvin, DMR, Yess etc.

Using Sheldon Brown's online gear calculator, this set up, when compared against my old SRAM PG-990 11-32 9-speed cassette (the aq/ar setting on his site), would be the equivalent to running the 30T, 16T and 12/11 (in between) cassette cogs out back.

I far prefer this set up over all the little steps typically associated with conventional cassettes. I hate the idea of shifting, then pedaling for literally a few feet only to shift right away again. Let me mull about in a gear for a minute and just ride my friggin' bike already.  

I think that's everything.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Axis II said:


> SID Team 2010. The floodgate for the lockout is a joke. It's not even close to the performance of my '07 Fox F80x terralogic valve.


It sounds like you'll want a 2011 Fox F80 Terralogic then. The Floodgate isn't even a good simulation of Fox ProPedal


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

rockyuphill said:


> It sounds like you'll want a 2011 Fox F80 Terralogic then. The Floodgate isn't even a good simulation of Fox ProPedal


Can't compare the floodgate with Terralogic - two completely different techs.... a Rockshox Team fork (SID or Reba like I have), are comparable to Fox RLC's, not Terralogic, which is an inertia valve based threshold/blowoff system. Mean to be a 'set and forget' system, that's able to distinguish loads from above (from say hard standing pedaling) vs below (ie. trail bumps). Terralogic is like Specialized's brain fork.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

Axis II said:


> You take purty pictures. Did you take those pics in a light box? Nice. This casette IS a work of art. I'm excited to get out on it today for the first ride. Lot's of new stuff on my rig today to pay attention to, but I will post back later with my ride imnpressions. In the stand it shifts awesome with my new Shadow RD, SRAM hollow pin chain and the Dura Ace 9-speed/Pauls Thumbies. I noticed no noise issues shifting it in the stand.


LOL... thnx... :thumbsup:

nothing too ellaborate... amazing what a fluorescent desk lamp and a Blackberry 3.2 MP can do...


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

That's pretty cool. Now I want to try one myself! The Melvin would work for a 22/32/42 up front as it handles a 20t difference. Lots of room for weight tuning on the Melvin maybe too


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

rockyuphill said:


> It sounds like you'll want a 2011 Fox F80 Terralogic then. The Floodgate isn't even a good simulation of Fox ProPedal


I would love one and would have purchased one, BUT no canti brake bosses on the new Fox Terralogics:madman:


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

MI_canuck said:


> Can't compare the floodgate with Terralogic - two completely different techs.... a Rockshox Team fork (SID or Reba like I have), are comparable to Fox RLC's, not Terralogic, which is an inertia valve based threshold/blowoff system. Mean to be a 'set and forget' system, that's able to distinguish loads from above (from say hard standing pedaling) vs below (ie. trail bumps). Terralogic is like Specialized's brain fork.


Can you describe the threshhold system of the SID? I bought this fork because I was told it would be a good alternative to my heavy '07 F80x Teralogic because it had the ability to be locked out at all times like the Terralogic UNTIL you hit a bump and then the fork would become active. The Floodgate adjustment for the threshhold apppears to be nothing more then a compression adjustment. It feels like there is no blowoff involved at all with this floodgate.:madmax:


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

from what i hear the Terralogic damper will be available as an upgrade for 2011 forks for $95 :thumbsup:

(still saving up for a XG999)


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Except the fox terralogic system was a poor way to do an inertia valve in the first place, and the new version has a delay built-in to sidestep the specialized patents so is unlikely to be much better. Oh well, give it a year and specialized patents will be voided and the original Ricor patent design will be picked up by another fork maker.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

really brilliant time today riding my old epic with '04 F100X Terralogic forks ...if it wasn't so flexy i'd prefer it to the 2010 FutureShock S140TA on my stumpy - which is a right royal pain in the arse to set-up for out of saddle mashing without dulling small bump sensitivity 

planning a Ti hardtail build with parts lying about + 2011 Forx with Terralogic - should be alot of fun + fast

(still saving up for that XG999)


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

had a GREAT ride today... rode a fast but technical trail, with a few good climbs... NO issues with the 11-32 out back with my 22/34 front dual ring combo... having a light bike helps no doubt, and with 29er and HT efficiency, the 11-32 out back is not a problem, at least for short to medium length, steep climbs.... for hour long grinders, not sure yet... but someone fit shouldn't have too much of a problem...

the XG999 shifts so smoothly, but so snappy and precisely... perfect setup with the gripshifts!... 

Noise? not even on the radar... it's a non-issue... no difference than riding a PG990... so I really don't know where the "myth" comes from... possibly the RED cassettes... whatever, I can say for my setup - no noise issue with the XG at all

culturesponge - save up bro, you won't regret it... for me it worth it, especially the weight savings


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> Except the fox terralogic system was a poor way to do an inertia valve in the first place, and the new version has a delay built-in to sidestep the specialized patents so is unlikely to be much better. Oh well, give it a year and specialized patents will be voided and the original Ricor patent design will be picked up by another fork maker.


So, do you think we will see everyone offering a Foxy stable platform valve in 2012?


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Ride report #2: Two hours of rocky hard technical riding today at Lebanon Hills, MN. Lots of explosive hard-load shifts on short up-hills. It keeps getting better. This cassette far outperforms the XTR that it replaces, IMO. It pedals under heavy load like a dream. My Dura Ace/Paul's Thumb shifters were never this crisp with the XTR cassette. I think SRAM is going to sell a lot of these. A good purchase, I think :thumbsup:


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Make some room on the bandwagon, I just placed my order for one. :ihih: :smilewinkgrin:


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

dude you will be blown away! sooo light 

backs it up with solid shifting performance too


PS - i'm using mine with a kmc x10sl


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## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Now I feel like I need one. Damn consumerism!


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## chuckji (Feb 7, 2008)

Mine will arrive tomorrow!


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

ordered one last night!


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

DAMN looks like I need one too.  Where are you guys buying the cassette? better... Where can we buy one for the cheapest price?


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

sergio_pt said:


> DAMN looks like I need one too.  Where are you guys buying the cassette? better... Where can we buy one for the cheapest price?


http://www.google.com/products?q=XG999&aq=f


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

I happened to get one from Universal Cycles, but I got the only one they had in Portland.


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

yes i got mine from universal along with a few other things.. just use the code vip15


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

We must have got the only couple that Universal had available.


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

sergio_pt said:


> DAMN looks like I need one too.  Where are you guys buying the cassette? better... Where can we buy one for the cheapest price?


I think the cheapest right now that has them in stock is ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SRAM-s-NEWEST-M...Accessories&hash=item2eacea637f#ht_3392wt_913


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## chuckji (Feb 7, 2008)

Universal must have had three in stock then...


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

Speedgoat


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

*Speedgoat is on backorder*....I got one of the last.....
​


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

To bad the Euro had such a bad drop......


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Seems to be a very rare cassette right now.
It's an expensive item for being new, for being rare, for being hard to make and for having high demand. My expectation for a price drop wont come true so soon I suppose.
And yes the Euro is in a down mood...


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## chuckji (Feb 7, 2008)

172g! :thumbsup: Though I do hear a little more noise compared to the XTR cassette.
Sometimes when shifting it'll ring like a circular saw blade. Overall not bad and so far not at a level I can really complain about, yet. This is on the repair stand so I'll have to check it while actually riding.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Jake Pay said:


> *Speedgoat is on backorder*....I got one of the last.....
> ​


Up the price goes! $300.00 now at speedgoat


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

wow... 

glad I ordered when I did... they are probably clueing in on how desirable this thing is becoming...


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Axis II said:


> Ride report #2: Two hours of rocky hard technical riding today at Lebanon Hills, MN. Lots of explosive hard-load shifts on short up-hills. It keeps getting better. This cassette far outperforms the XTR that it replaces, IMO. It pedals under heavy load like a dream. My Dura Ace/Paul's Thumb shifters were never this crisp with the XTR cassette. I think SRAM is going to sell a lot of these. A good purchase, I think :thumbsup:


It depends on the US patent office doing their job. Ricor's filling for I think its seven re-exams on specialized patents for failure to disclose known prior art in their applications (they knew about the prior art because they had already licensed Ricor's patented design on inertia valve shocks). Technically that's committing patent fraud and the usual response is the patent office voids the patents. There could be fines too. It definitely could lead to a civil or federal lawsuit under anti-trust laws which will either result in a very nice out-of-court settlement or a much more expensive punitive damages verdict if it goes to a judge's decision stage. As it stands right now, Ricor is in talks with a major known american bicycle brand to equip their bikes with Ricor inertia-valve shocks which will probably occur for 2012 if the production line can be setup to do it (Ricor already produces motorcycle and automobile racing shocks, but you have to make stuff smaller and lighter obviously for bicycles), and specialized definitely isn't stupid enough to issue a cease and desist order when that happens because it makes it cheaper for Ricor to get a judge to see the evidence and make a decision.


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## Broseph (Nov 9, 2006)

$300 is insane!


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

(still saving up) but all the places who had the best prices are all sold out!

i really hope SRAM are paying attention to how fast this XG-999 cassette is selling - and gets an 11-34 or 11-36 version into production sharpish


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Axis II said:


> Ride report #2: Two hours of rocky hard technical riding today at Lebanon Hills, MN. Lots of explosive hard-load shifts on short up-hills. It keeps getting better. This cassette far outperforms the XTR that it replaces, IMO. It pedals under heavy load like a dream. My Dura Ace/Paul's Thumb shifters were never this crisp with the XTR cassette. I think SRAM is going to sell a lot of these. A good purchase, I think :thumbsup:





DeeEight said:


> It depends on the US patent office doing their job. Ricor's filling for I think its seven re-exams on specialized patents for failure to disclose known prior art in their applications (they knew about the prior art because they had already licensed Ricor's patented design on inertia valve shocks). Technically that's committing patent fraud and the usual response is the patent office voids the patents. There could be fines too. It definitely could lead to a civil or federal lawsuit under anti-trust laws which will either result in a very nice out-of-court settlement or a much more expensive punitive damages verdict if it goes to a judge's decision stage. As it stands right now, Ricor is in talks with a major known american bicycle brand to equip their bikes with Ricor inertia-valve shocks which will probably occur for 2012 if the production line can be setup to do it (Ricor already produces motorcycle and automobile racing shocks, but you have to make stuff smaller and lighter obviously for bicycles), and specialized definitely isn't stupid enough to issue a cease and desist order when that happens because it makes it cheaper for Ricor to get a judge to see the evidence and make a decision.


Huh? Wrong thread? How the heck Terralogic relates to SRAM cassettes?


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Someone else brought up SID forks and Terralogic vs the blow-off threshold setting on the motion control damping.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

Curmy said:


> Huh? Wrong thread? How the heck Terralogic relates to SRAM cassettes?


seriously... there's already a Terralogic thread in the Shock & Susp forum...


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

SRAM marketing, I surrender!

While waiting for this cassette it crossed my mind why to put it off another season: just got XX for both of my bikes. It was inevitable anyway, no need to take a detour via this cassette.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> It depends on the US patent office doing their job. Ricor's filling for I think its seven re-exams on specialized patents for failure to disclose known prior art in their applications (they knew about the prior art because they had already licensed Ricor's patented design on inertia valve shocks). Technically that's committing patent fraud and the usual response is the patent office voids the patents. There could be fines too. It definitely could lead to a civil or federal lawsuit under anti-trust laws which will either result in a very nice out-of-court settlement or a much more expensive punitive damages verdict if it goes to a judge's decision stage. As it stands right now, Ricor is in talks with a major known american bicycle brand to equip their bikes with Ricor inertia-valve shocks which will probably occur for 2012 if the production line can be setup to do it (Ricor already produces motorcycle and automobile racing shocks, but you have to make stuff smaller and lighter obviously for bicycles), and specialized definitely isn't stupid enough to issue a cease and desist order when that happens because it makes it cheaper for Ricor to get a judge to see the evidence and make a decision.


OT my apologies, but interesting....whatever the case, I hope the Dark Star (Specialized) gets what it deserves in the end and we see more manufacturers offering increasingly refined versions of the inertia/stable platform valve. I was very happy with the F80x in every respect sans the weight. The SID platform leaves me very homesick for my days of "set it and forget it" with the F80x. I would have a 2011 Fox inertia valve on my bike now if I could use my EL Ultrabrakes on it.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Axis you must surrender to disc brakes... it's time now. The disc setup is now as light as v-brakes.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Almost as light as V's.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Batas said:


> Almost as light as V's.


I was wondering recently what the weight penalty was for discs these days. I have a difficult time believing that the lightest disc setup matches what I run now.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Lightest functional discs brakes run at 500-550g complete in 140mm 160mm... 
Your V set runs at what, 350g?


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

Batas said:


> Lightest functional discs brakes run at 500-550g complete in 140mm 160mm...
> Your V set runs at what, 350g?


IIRC, Axis is running Extralite Ultra Levers and Brakes. Front and rear should come 
in at around 265 grams. Plus whatever the cables and housing weigh.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Jake Pay said:


> IIRC, Axis is running Extralite Ultra Levers and Brakes. Front and rear should come
> in at around 265 grams. Plus whatever the cables and housing weigh.


Yes, Ultrabrakes and levers front and rear with Aligator I-Link housing, PowerCordz cables and PowerCordz liners. I think it would have to be well under 350g and maybe even not much over 300g? I have never weighed the cables and housing but the I-Links are very light as are the cables/liners. In the past there was weight savings in a non-disc hub to be had as well. AND, if you want to get extreme about it grams can be saved by cutting off the disc brake tabs on the frame as well.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Axis II said:


> In the past there was weight savings in a non-disc hub to be had as well. AND, if you want to get extreme about it grams can be saved by cutting off the disc brake tabs on the frame as well.


Disc rims now way lighter than rims with brake tracks (-200g or more for a pair?) but still it's already been shown with many detailed calculations on this forum previously that a "best of" setup in terms of weight only is still going to be v-brakes. No argument there.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Axis II said:


> I was wondering recently what the weight penalty was for discs these days. I have a difficult time believing that the lightest disc setup matches what I run now.


V's are light BUT counting in todays disc-wheelsets with disc-rims well under 300g the weight penalty is shrinking to almost non-existent.

With V-brakes wheels are heavier which was the reason for me to finally do the switch! Actual discs definitely outperform rim-brakes in every aspect and they come with lighter wheels which is more important than saving a couple of grams elsewhere...sad but true.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

nino said:


> V's are light BUT counting in todays disc-wheelsets with disc-rims well under 300g the weight penalty is shrinking to almost non-existent.
> 
> With V-brakes wheels are heavier which was the reason for me to finally do the switch! Actual discs definitely outperform rim-brakes in every aspect and they come with lighter wheels which is more important than saving a couple of grams elsewhere...sad but true.


I never thought I would be agruing this point with you of all people!  A dual suspension frame also reportedly outperforms a hardtail, but yet you still ride a hardtail as do I, no? Well under 300g? I did a quick check on the NoTubes site and the lightest disc ZTR Crest (I think) is 330g so, you save 25g in front and 25g in back over the ZTR 355 rim brake rim. 25g per rim is still not enough, but perhaps a $300USD carbon rim could save more grams and this is what you are speaking to? But, I get it, the industry has once again rammed a product down our throats that we do not need and has made it impossible to resist with phasing out canti-bosses. I think it sucks and I do not support it. I think I will pop "The Hell of The North" in the DVD and watch some real men ride bikes sans hydraulics.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Axis II said:


> Well under 300g? I did a quick check on the NoTubes site and the lightest disc ZTR Crest (I think) is 330g so, you save 25g in front and 25g in back over the ZTR 355 rim brake rim. 25g per rim is still not enough, but perhaps a $300USD carbon rim could save more grams and this is what you are speaking to?


Stan's Race 7000 (now Podium MMX) is in the 285g range. Not normally sold except in complete Stan's wheelsets but can be had if you know where to look, and also not that expensive. In fact, very good ratio of grams saved relative to cost.

More expensive carbon rims like Innolite also available, at less weight even but much higher cost.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Circlip said:


> Stan's Race 7000 (now Podium MMX) is in the 285g range. Not normally sold except in complete Stan's wheelsets but can be had if you know where to look, and also not that expensive. In fact, very good ratio of grams saved relative to cost.
> 
> More expensive carbon rims like Innolite also available, at less weight even but much higher cost.


I wouldn't choose a race-only type rim anyway so for me a sub 300g disc only rim doesn't factor into the equation. I have raced and trained HARD for three seasons on my ZTR 
355s and they are still straight and true. My experience in talking to people around here who use the Stans race-only rims is that they lack durability for sure.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Axis II said:


> I wouldn't choose a race-only type rim anyway so for me a sub 300g disc only rim doesn't factor into the equation. I have raced and trained HARD for three seasons on my ZTR
> 355s and they are still straight and true. My experience in talking to people around here who use the Stans race-only rims is that they lack durability for sure.


No Stans rims for me!
Alex scandiums only. Great rims, No Dings, staied true all year long, no pressure limits and no weight restrictions either...awesome product!! My wheels don't come with any fancy hubs, just Amclassics, yet they still weigh only 1250g. Try that with a V-Brake wheelset...

I was a hardcore V-braker BUT for me V's only perform when combined with ceramic rims. Aluminium rims are a no-go for me.On regular aluminium rims the brakepower is definitely not what i would need. Only ceramic rims get the V's up in power and near discbrakes---->that's making for wheels in the 1400g range as ceramic rims usually are around 400-420g. That's why i wrote that i prefer a small, almost negligible weight penalty in favour of better brakes and lighter wheels. Better brakes will save you more than 100g lighter weight and a lighter wheelset is also worth more than 100g saved on overall weight elsewhere. I did the math too...i finally had to agree that by now V's are outperformed by the simple fact that the small weight advantage that remains is more than outweighed by the performance gains in brake power and lighter wheels. Sad but true.

Regarding weight of V's vs Discs you could as well factor in some other parts:
Years ago you/I could argue that with V's you could get away using the older SIDs while with discbrakes you needed sturdier forks to fight the torsion when applying the discbrakes. These days you can get lighter forks for discbrakes than you can get for V's. My DT weighs just around 1180g. You will have a hard time to find a similar performing fork for V-brakes....another area where the V-brake loses the match against the discbrake. Again not only in weight but also performancewise.

Disc-adapters or V-Adapters also could be factored in but these days you will have a VERY hard time to find a lightweight V-Brake frameset since most ultralight framesets come as Disc-only. My old 2005 Scott Scale frameset is still the lightest at around 1000g but usually V-frames are much heavier.Again one point for discbrakes over V's.

Doing the math:
Light V-Brake setup:
KCNC brakeset: 174+48 = 222g 
light ceramic wheelset: 1400
light V-Brake fork: older SID WC 1300g
Total: 2922g

Light disc-setup:
Formula R1 f+r: 540g
light wheelset: 1200g
light Disc-fork: 1200g
Total: 2940g


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

nino said:


> No Stans rims for me!
> Alex scandiums only. Great rims, No Dings, staied true all year long, no pressure limits and no weight restrictions either...awesome product!! My wheels don't come with any fancy hubs, just Amclassics, yet they still weigh only 1250g. Try that with a V-Brake wheelset...
> 
> I was a hardcore V-braker BUT for me V's only perform when combined with ceramic rims. Aluminium rims are a no-go for me.The brakepower is definitely not what i need.Only ceramic rims get the V's up in power and near discbrakes---->that's making for wheels in the 1400g range as ceramic rims usually are around 400-420g. That's why i wrote that i prefer a small, almost negligible weight penalty in favour of better brakes and lighter wheels. Better brakes will save you more than 100g lighter weight and a lighter wheelset is also worth more than 100g saved on overall weight elsewhere. I did the math too...i finally had to agree that by now V's are outperformed by the simple fact that the small weight advantage that remains is more than outweighed by the performance gains in brake power and lighter wheels. Sad but true.
> ...


Hmm? How is the beadlock on those rims for running tubeless with a standard lightweight tire and sealant? Can you run pressure low around 23lbs and not burp or roll your tire off the rim?


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

my XG999 just came in the mail today. It weighs 174g :thumbsup: . Haven't had anytime to ride it yet tho


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

jordanrosenbach3 said:


> my XG999 just came in the mail today. It weighs 174g :thumbsup: . Haven't had anytime to ride it yet tho


Dude get out there... You'll love it! 

Rode tonight... The shifting performance of the XG continues to impress! :thumbsup:


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

MI_canuck said:


> Dude get out there... You'll love it!
> 
> Rode tonight... The shifting performance of the XG continues to impress! :thumbsup:


Absolutely:thumbsup: I'm still blown away at how smooth this cassette shifts up to an easier gear while climbing hard under heavy pedal load. It's SO much better then XTR. It's prolly only a matter of time before a 11-34 or 11-36 version is released as popular as this cassette has become. It shouldn't be a very difficult matter for SRAM to swap out the 32t for a 34 or 36t.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Axis II said:


> I wouldn't choose a race-only type rim anyway so for me a sub 300g disc only rim doesn't factor into the equation. I have raced and trained HARD for three seasons on my ZTR
> 355s and they are still straight and true. My experience in talking to people around here who use the Stans race-only rims is that they lack durability for sure.


It's all in the wheel build. I initially had the same skepticism as you above. For reference I also own other wheels made up of both 355s and Olympics. The wheel builder gave me his opinion and explained some of the custom tricks he was going to employ to do the build, and I took a leap of faith (Note: I usually build all my own wheels). Now, after 6 months of use as an everyday wheelset here in Vancouver, B.C. and surrounding areas (we have a few roots and rocks!!!) the proof is in and I have no choice but to agree with him. Rider weight = 65kg, riding 4" FS, 2.25 tires @ 28r/26f.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Holy doodle! 168gms!


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

rockyuphill said:


> Holy doodle! 168gms!


That's a score









My 999 should be here on Friday...I'm crossing my fingers for a similar showing...


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Axis II said:


> rammed a product down our throats I think it sucks and I do not support it. I think I will pop


:thumbsup:


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

rockyuphill said:


> Holy doodle! 168gms!


bastard! 

enjoy!! :thumbsup:


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

Well just got back from my first ride with this cassette. WOW, it shifts super quick and doesn't hesitate under pressure. Definitely an upgrade over my XTR. I didn't notice any excess noise when on the dirt, but i noticed it a little on the road, it just sounded like i had a dry chain but i didn't.

Question: Did anybody notice that their chain sits closer to the cog up from it than on an XTR cassette? Im using a brand new XTR/DA chain and this didn't cause any issues except when in the 28t ring, it skipped around a little when i shifted in and out of it, it was sitting really close to the aluminum 32t ring.

Other than that I think Sram hit the jackpot with this one, now just the price needs to come down...


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## Daniel_E (Apr 26, 2005)

I still haven't seen this in any EU webshop. Is it available overe here yet?


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

*O*








*M*








*G*


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

So a running change perhaps? 6gms less with two data points.

That cassette put my bike at 19.79 pounds.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Damn! I have 5g envy!


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

Axis II said:


> Damn! I have 5g envy!


I wonder where they trimmed the fat









I got a short ride in at day break and the shifting was/is on the money.....
So far, I like








​


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

I got a good ride in today as well. It shifts crisply, but it has a much louder sort of shift than the XTR, almost exactly like the difference between an X-0 trigger shifter and an XTR trigger. The XTR cassette sometimes shifts so smooth you can only tell by the pedal effort (no sound and no feeling at the pedals), but so far this cassette makes a noticeable *kachink!* with every shift (it also got a new chain at the same time).

On the service stand I also thought that the chain moves on and off the biggest alloy cog and the smallest separate cog differently than the 7 monolithic cogs, maybe just a bit less crisply. That could just be the new chain and the fact that those are the furthest off the chainline.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

nice. 
I wouldn't bother about the shifting _*kachink!* _ noises, it shouldn't be doing any damage or wear.
Who wants to make a video with the cassette shifting?


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Daniel_E said:


> I still haven't seen this in any EU webshop. Is it available overe here yet?


yep 200EUR  
http://www.bike-components.de/products/info/p24576_XG-999-9-fach-Kassette-Modell-2010.html

edit: not in stock yet...


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

not waiting for mine anymore - here you go sergio :thumbsup:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

culturesponge said:


> not waiting for mine anymore - here you go sergio :thumbsup:
> /QUOTE]
> Nice video - I did one of my cassettes and SEC shifters as well and from the video alone i see no difference. I can hear that distinctive sound of the cassette though. It even seems there's more "trtrtrtr" on some of your upshifts then i get but mabye that's because all is still new.
> I like its "transparent" look mounted on the bike though. But don't like the different colour of the rear sprocket. They could have made it silver as well so it would match the other sprockets. Also as soon as the teeth will get worn a bit you will see shiny marks on that dark anodized aluminium cog as well. That's the only negatif comment i have which is pure cosmetics.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

i received today a 11-32T Sram XX , so 10 speed

tomorrow on scale to see the differences from X999


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

I got one last week, 181g. 4g less than the official weight!!! And such a beauty!


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

thanks culturesponge. :thumbsup: 
looks like I need one, see if it holds up well with the abuse!  

Which shifters are you using?


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

no probs :thumbsup: 

these cassettes look tuff enough to grate fossilized supermarket parmesan cheese

i'm using XO twist shifters (and might well be for sometime)


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

I wonder how much the new X-0 cassette will weigh, a riveted version of the XX


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

"The XO 10-speed cassette will initially only come in an 11-36 tooth size. Weight is 235g, and it uses an aluminum body and lockring with a steel back plate and 36T cog."

http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/04/17/sram-x0-2x10-official-photos-and-specs/

also......

"XG-1080 is still impressively light, with a target weight of just 235g - just 11g more than Shimano XTR"

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/sram-unveil-trick-pindome-cassette-for-x0-family-26573

still no sign of 10 speed twist shifters (mrs culturesponge is very happy about that!)


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

I wonder if they have that backwards, it looks like a steel body and alloy 36T cog and lockring


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

rockyuphill said:


> I wonder if they have that backwards, it looks like a steel body and alloy 36T cog and lockring


you might be right

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/sram-x0-2011-first-ride-review-26550

"XG-1080 is essentially still a hollow dome in form but instead of being machined from a single hunk of chromoly, each individual stamped steel cog is press-fitted to its neighbours around its entire circumference with a number of high-strength steel pins (dubbed 'PinDome' for now). As before, the innermost cog is a thick aluminium plate that also transfers load to the freehub body."

:thumbsup:


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

culturesponge said:


> not waiting for mine anymore - here you go sergio :thumbsup:


GREAT vid! :thumbsup:

this false rumor of the XG being loud is simply BS... loving mine and it's super quiet


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

not the best pic... but there she is... after a great ride... 11-32 on my 29er with 22/34 front is working amazingly well...


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

MI_canuck said:


> this false rumor of the XG being loud is simply BS... loving mine and it's super quiet


+1








​


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

MI_canuck said:


> GREAT vid! :thumbsup:
> 
> this false rumor of the XG being loud is simply BS... loving mine and it's super quiet


thanks! & thanks nino

+2

almost 100 miles on mine, its coping really well with the extremely dusty trails here & lets off a distinctive "chung" (noise) occasionally shifting under power - but it's a minute price to pay being 47g lighter than the flabby old XTR M970 11-32

well done SRAM


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

I do find that it isn't as fast and smooth at the multi-gear up and downshifts as the XTR cassette using XTR shifters.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

Jake Pay said:


> I wonder where they trimmed the fat
> 
> 
> 
> ...


just hope the 168g ones don't break


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

rockyuphill said:


> I do find that it isn't as fast and smooth at the multi-gear up and downshifts as the XTR cassette using XTR shifters.


that's because you have to use grip shifts 

i switched to grip shifts last year and never looking back to triggers... the speed or shifting and the ergonomic benefits (no more sore thumbs) is too much to give up


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

LCW said:


> no more sore thumbs


 What the heck do you do to your shifters?

SRAM trigger shifters do suck indeed, IMHO. XTR does not.

Personally, grip shifters just get in the way for me. Can not keep a finger on the brake lever and downshift at the same time.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

These work fantastic _for me_ with the XX cassette and the XX FD. Still waiting on the Speen adapter for the Dura Ace 7900 FD.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*2nd XG-999 11-32 9 spd cassette*

a 2nd XG-999 11-32 9 spd cassette arrived the post the other day, alas not all of them are sub 170g straight out of the box - argh! nabbed myself a hefty biffa


'10 SRAM XG-999 11-32 9-spd cassette


'10 SRAM XG-999 11-32 9-spd cassette 12-32 spider


SRAM 11t lockring + '10 SRAM XG-999 11t sprocket


Extralite Extrabolt 3.3 11t lockring + '09 XTR 11t sprocket


'10 SRAM XG-999 11-32 9-spd cassette + Extralite Extrabolt 3.3 11t lockring + XTR 11t sprocket

well anyway blah - bit better now with an XTR 11t sprocket + Extralite lockring @ 169g


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## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Has anyone paired it with a KMC X10SL chain? Does it shift well?


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

sfer1 said:


> Has anyone paired it with a KMC X10SL chain? Does it shift well?


Shifting is on the money with the X10SL...















I got lucky with the weight















Double checked...​















Rock on!​


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## KINBOY (May 23, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> ActionTec makes them. But since the cogset is all titanium except for the smallest cog, and it doesn't use a carrier, you run into the already mentioned problem with alloy freehub bodies. Besides which it is still possible to find NOS Shimano M950 12-32 Ti 8 speed cassettes (they literally made millions of the things) online.


During the winter you can find them cheap on ebay and some other retailers. I have kept a bike with 8 speed and never have issues getting one, I love 8 speed equip!


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

Jake Pay said:


> Rock on!​


rock on Jake :thumbsup:

...have you seen the prices for these cassettes in Europe?? 217.50 Euro (approx $276.55) :eekster:


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

I'm SOLD....getting one as soon as my 11-27 Dura Ace goes kaput. What have you guys been paying for them?


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

Zachariah said:


> I'm SOLD....getting one as soon as my 11-27 Dura Ace goes kaput. What have you guys been paying for them?


$245 shipped...


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## qkenuf4u (Jan 24, 2009)

DeeEight said:


> Besides which it is still possible to find NOS Shimano M950 12-32 Ti 8 speed cassettes (they literally made millions of the things) online.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370489516360


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## jasonub (Apr 23, 2010)

Is this made of steel? Awsome light !


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## turnerth (Aug 4, 2010)

Axis II said:


> These work fantastic _for me_ with the XX cassette and the XX FD. Still waiting on the Speen adapter for the Dura Ace 7900 FD.


are "these" Paul Components??

thanks


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## JmZ (Jan 10, 2004)

Not Axis2, but I'll speak for him.

Yep. Those are Paul thumbies. His are a 'bit' tuned though. Mine weigh in around 130-135g range. He's done some bolt replacement, and some shaving to lighten them up.

And they do work nice.

JmZ


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Anyone using this cassette with XTR shadow and XTR shifters?

I don't know why I can't shift into the first gear... I've tried everything.

It looks like the 1st gear (32T) is closer to the rest of the cogs, I mean there is a smaller gap between the 1st and 2nd gear than there is on the other gears. 

ideas?


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

I'm using one of these cassettes with XTR RD and shifters, the key thing is to avoid using XTR chain with this cassette, the shift aids on the cassette and the chain don't seem to get along. All the shifting headaches I had went away with the SRAM PC-991 hollow pin chain.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

I've tried a KMC X10 SL gold chain and the XTR chain. KMC is thinner and it doesn't interfere in the cassette shifting aids as much as the XTR chain.
But my unsolvable problem now is how to shift to the first gear effortlessly. 
All the other gears enter without problem but when I reach the first I have to use the stop bolt to avoid the chain going into the spokes, because of that I have to force the shift and there is a lot of tension in the cable... there is something wrong here..
I'll try to make a video today to demonstrate.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Is your Shadow RD sitting against the dropout RD stop? Do you have enough range on the B-tension screw to set the distance to the big cog.


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## XgreygOOse (Sep 8, 2007)

rockyuphill said:


> I'm using one of these cassettes with XTR RD and shifters, the key thing is to avoid using XTR chain with this cassette, the shift aids on the cassette and the chain don't seem to get along. All the shifting headaches I had went away with the SRAM PC-991 hollow pin chain.


+1 on the chain.:thumbsup: 
All problems went away with a SRAM PC-991 hollow pin chain. It kept skipping on the 32t cog when I was using KMC X9 SL chain. As rockyuphill said it sounds like the B-tension screw needs adjusting.
I am using both XTR shifter and long cage XTR RD with this cassette. I'm even trying out a FRM conversion kit, making it a 12-36t cassette. As I'm using a 2x9 42-28t up front.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

It's strange that just changing the chain makes the first gear enter smoothly.
Anyone here using the KCM X10 SL chain with this setup?

I'm using a short cage XTR shadow, the B-screw has enough tension to allow the upper jockey wheel to reach the first gear.
I'll fiddle with it again one more time...

Isn't the gap between 1st and second smaller than the others? or it's just me?
If it was 1mm larger I would be ok


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)




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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

There's bit of optical illusion there, the spacing between the 32T and 28T teeth is consistent but the alloy cog has a raised shoulder where it mounts to the steel cassette body, so the change in material is offset by about 1mm.

When the Shadow style derailleur first appeared there were some derailleur hangers that had the derailleur stop offset just enough that it was difficult to get enough range of motion out of the standard B tension screw.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

I had lots of problems with a KMC X10SL chain and the XX cassette
It was changing to sram 10s chain and all goes perfect!

anyway there are not XTR shadow short cage, only midle or large
I custom made a really XTR short cage when I used hammerschmidt


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

I can't do it... 
If I adjust the cable to put the first gear without problems, then when using the lower gears the chain will be grinding in the next smaller cog... I will just forget that I have a 32t cog, anyway I don't need it much. 

Later I'll buy a SRAM PC991 chain and see how it goes. I also need to buy a new tire because I just blown a x-king racesport, on the side. I was surprised with that. reports about that later.

thanks for the help guys


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## Veda (Dec 17, 2009)

STS said:


> I had lots of problems with a KMC X10SL chain and the XX cassette It was changing to sram 10s chain and all goes perfect!


I actually sold my still sealed brand new XX chains and got the X10SL. So many problems with the XX sprocket! Now I gotta go get the XX chain again. Damn!!! :madmax:


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## zahgurim (Aug 12, 2005)

How are everyone's cassettes holding up?


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

*Don't use KMC Chain with SRAM XO/XX*

This combo means nothing but annoying chain rattle and far-from-smooth shifts.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

What's the XX chain weigh? If you can't use a x10SL then does that offset some of the weight advantages of this cassette?


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## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

All the top of the line Specialized and Merida bikes come with the KMC X10SL chain and XX cassette combo.

Specialized Bicycle Components : S-Works Stumpjumper Carbon

Specialized Bicycle Components : S-Works Epic Carbon 29 SRAM

O.Nine Superlite Team-D-39 - MTB Hardtail - Merida Bicicletas España

And a lot of people use it without any issues.


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## mariosimas (Nov 30, 2009)

I use the XX 10V chain with this cassete with 0 problems


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

I'm using the X10SL chain with this cassette without issues. I'm considering using the X11SL. I've been using it on my other bike for about 6 months now without issues.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

I swapped back to an XTR cassette and XTR chain mid-August to get a quieter drivetrain and found a big improvement in the multiple gear up and down shifts that the XTR shifters offer.


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