# 2016 World Cup Thread



## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

Someone had to start it!

Luna grabbing Lechner is going to be awesome.

Also, here is a shot of Batty doing some jumps in a dress.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I almost started the thread about an hour ago, but decided for a quick spin instead...

Congrats!!!


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Batty posted this on her FB feed 

"Do these shorts make my butt look big? Lol..."











briscoelab said:


> Someone had to start it!
> 
> Luna grabbing Lechner is going to be awesome.
> 
> ...


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## moab63 (Dec 29, 2003)

Not WC, but still relevant. Todd Wells out.

https://www.facebook.com/todd.wells...4809714286579/763900263710854/?type=3&theater


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## Tyrone Shoelaces (Nov 6, 2006)

moab63 said:


> Not WC, but still relevant. Todd Wells out.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/todd.wells...4809714286579/763900263710854/?type=3&theater


wow, first Aaron Gwin announces he is leaving Spesh and now this. Curious to see where they both end up.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Todd Wells didn't have a good year. He was chasing form all year and seems to be past his peak.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

What teams are Todd Wells and Stephen Ettinger racing for this year?

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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

I don't believe Todd has announced where he's headed.


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## Tyrone Shoelaces (Nov 6, 2006)

Stonerider said:


> Todd Wells didn't have a good year. He was chasing form all year and seems to be past his peak.


He did win a National Championship though (Marathon)


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Tyrone Shoelaces said:


> He did win a National Championship though (Marathon)


Yes you normally see that progression as an athlete ages. Where they used to dominate the shorter, more intense XC and CX races, as they lose that "snap" power they gravitate towards the longer endurance events.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Will anyone other than Absalon or Nino be able to fight for the top spot? 

Jaro might of course have the ability to peak during a few races (Rio?) 

Think the sport need more heros, the dominance of Nino and Absalon is not that fun to watch for 192th time.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I want Fumic to win. Or Fontana.

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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> I want Fumic to win. Or Fontana.
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Fumic got close last year when he used his technique on the deacents. Good rider but are missing the last gear.

Ondrej Cink ready for this year? Will also be interesting to see Simon Andreassen frim Danmark in the U23 this year. Been dominated both CX and XC during last couple of seasons and now signed with Specialized


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Lechner wins her first race for Luna as well (cyclocross race EKZ Crosstour in Switzerland).
Full Video Replay: EKZ CrossTour Men's and Women's Elite Races, Full Results - Cyclocross Magazine - Cyclocross News, Races, Bikes, Photos, Videos

I agree about the Absalon v. Schurter duel becoming stale. JA and NS just seem to be a level above everyone, while others showed the ability to hang for a bit but not for the whole race. I loved Fumic's ride up front with them. Fontana seems to have slipped back a bit, but he does rise back up for the really big races.

I thought Wells sort of took an off year last season to start a family, but leaving Specialized was a surprise. I also wonder where he and Ettinger wind up?

I wonder how much MTB PFP will race this season? I'm smitten with her and her results, but with an injury taking her out of CX season completely with zero race appearances and her typically limited MTB World Cup campaign I sort of feel like she takes World Champ jerseys and hordes them! How about a full MTB WC schedule out of respect for her jersey and scaling back road commitments as needed, please! She'll be down to "only" one rainbow jersey to show off (not counting the team one) after all!


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

ewarnerusa said:


> How about a full MTB WC schedule out of respect for her jersey and scaling back road commitments as needed, please!


The roadies will be saying the same thing


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> The roadies will be saying the same thing


She's no longer road WC though. She'll be down to just one rainbow jersey by MTB season, I believe she's already ruled out of CX WC.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Fumic and Fontana both deserve a win. I was also impressed with Vogel last year. 

I honestly dont care what Jaro does. I dont like his additude, seems like a princess who only rides because it is his job. I see no passion in him.


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

Predictions:

A bunch of Swiss will kick butt, again. 5 of the top 10 male riders will be Swiss.

Olympic Gold will be won by a dark horse, like Mantecon, Cink, or Tiberi. Or maybe Jaro. Or Nino.

Cink will win a World Cup race.

Gagne will have a great season, perhaps breaking into the top 10 and bumping off one of the Swiss.

No U.S. male will finish in the top 50 in World Cup standings.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

https://www.sram.com/stories/welcoming-wells

Todd is riding for TLD/SRAM... and he's on a Scott. Glad to see someone is willing to work with him, seems like a great guy.

I'd love to see a dark horse win the olympics, I've always been a McConnell fan.

Gagne doing great would be swell!


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## anderssvensson (Jan 21, 2015)

I think the swedish girl, Jenny Rissveds, Jenny Rissveds ? Professional Cyclist will be really strong competing in the Women Elite this year!

Swedish newspaper reported that she now have the swedish record (women) at Vo2Max value 75!! 
Faluns cykeltalang kan ha bättre flås än Charlotte Kalla


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

In for the festivities.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm just here for the free beer.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

plupp said:


> Fumic got close last year when he used his technique on the deacents. Good rider but are missing the last gear.
> 
> Ondrej Cink ready for this year? Will also be interesting to see Simon Andreassen frim Danmark in the U23 this year. Been dominated both CX and XC during last couple of seasons and now signed with Specialized


Simon has been with ''S'' for a while...check out his bike!!!

Pro Bike Gallery: Simon Andreassen's XC race bike - VeloNews.com

He duked it out in the past two World Championships with a kid from Colombia named Egan Bernal, but her turned to road with Androni-Giocattoli...

I saw that kid in Colombia last March...and he's fast!!! Used to race with ''S" also but with a local team in Colombia...


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Looks like Gagne is moving on from Rocky Mountain. Hasnt mentioned where to yet.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

machine4321 said:


> Looks like Gagne is moving on from Rocky Mountain. Hasnt mentioned where to yet.


Why do you say that? Because he has last years bike for sale?


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

No, he said he is moving on.

https://mobile.twitter.com/raphaelgagne?lang=en


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

and this... Farewell to Raphaël Gagné | Rocky Mountain Bicycles


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## Afrobiker (Dec 19, 2010)

I'd think either Scott or Specialized brought him on.

With Todd parting ways, there's room for another up and coming NA racer in the mix


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Afrobiker said:


> I'd think either Scott or Specialized brought him on.
> 
> With Todd parting ways, there's room for another up and coming NA racer in the mix


Probably Specialized...Todd Wells will be riding a Scott this year.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Pure speculation.

But I am going with Pivot.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

LMN said:


> Pure speculation.
> 
> But I am going with Pivot.


Do they have any actual interest in WC/Oly XC racing?

That's not the feeling I get when I read their websites, interviews with Chris C., etc. But, maybe I'm wrong.

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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

LMN said:


> Pure speculation.
> 
> But I am going with Pivot.


hmm Good call. They do have a very strong presence in Quebec.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

machine4321 said:


> hmm Good call. They do have a very strong presence in Quebec.


That was my thought. Plus with them sponsoring Chloe Woodruff there is potential for a world cup team. As I said though, pure speculation.

Wouldn't be surprised if is actually a European team that he ends up riding for.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Didn't realize Pivot was sponsoring her this year.

Is Niner completely out of the WC game now?

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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...1480569007942.19547.100004379982449&source=48

Doesnt look like pivot. Maybe doing sothing on his own with cannondale?

Is showair all switched to ridebike?.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Is he with CFR or RideBiker?

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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

That makes sense, Peter is the Cannondale competition manager and he used to have that role at Rocky, so there's a pre-existing connnection with Raph (and had hired Max Plaxton to ride for Rocky back in the day).


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Re read the post and he has a link to Cannondalepro facebook page. Different then CFR im guessing. Good for him!


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Cannondale Pro and Cannondale Factory Racing are two sides of the same coin...

http://www.cannondale.com/en/Canada/Teams/Mountain/CannondaleFactoryRacing.aspx


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Unbelievable that they thought they wouldn't get caught. I imagine they'll be checking WC XCO bikes this year

UCI investigates possible bike fraud at cyclo-cross Worlds | Cyclingnews.com


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

rockyuphill said:


> Unbelievable that they thought they wouldn't get caught. I imagine they'll be checking WC XCO bikes this year
> 
> UCI investigates possible bike fraud at cyclo-cross Worlds | Cyclingnews.com


It should be a lifetime ban if caught using a motorized bike. So pathetic!


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The fines are huge for the team, but the team or the manufacturer should have an outright competition ban for stupidity, not like they can just take a masking agent for this one.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Also of note: her brother is currently serving a doping suspension. 

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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci...uncovered-at-cyclo-cross-world-championships/

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fem...ing-motor-at-cyclo-cross-world-championships/


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Cyclingtips.com did an article last year about bikes with concealed motors, and how it works in practice.

This is the article that is well worth reading through:

http://cyclingtips.com/2015/04/hidden-motors-for-road-bikes-exist-heres-how-they-work/

.


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## bopApocalypse (Aug 27, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> Didn't realize Pivot was sponsoring her this year.
> 
> Is Niner completely out of the WC game now?
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


That _is_ interesting, considering her bike was the one that really got featured before they officially announced the bike. (Yeah, there were some crappy instagram shots of Rebecca Rusch's bike, but nothing quite like this: PIT BITS - Chloe Woodruff's Niner Secret XC Weapon - PIT BITS - World Cup Windham - Mountain Biking Pictures - Vital MTB )

Also a little surprising since, with the announcement of the RKT, whoever posts here for niner sure made it sound like they were trying to get _more _involved at the WC level. (That was in response to my observation that all the top-finishing FS bikes @ WC are all marketed as 100mm bikes, and surprise at doing a production 90mm bike)


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

If you've been following the motorised cyclo cross bike story it's getting dafter by the day.

First it emerges that Femke Van den Driessche's brother Niels is currently serving a ban for EPO use.

Now it seems that the Van den Driessche family is also currently being charged for parakeet theft February last year. Dad Peter, doping-suspended son Niels, and a friend were caught on camera stealing two expensive parakeets from a shop.

http://www.hln.be/regio/nieuws-uit-jabbeke/-die-familie-deinst-voor-niets-terug-a2603590/


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

She's hanging on to the claim that the bike belongs to a friend and it isn't hers, but where's the friend who owns the bike jumping to her defense? And what team mechanic wouldn't notice the extra weight when handling two or three identical team bikes? There's no way this could be an accidental deployment of a motor equipped bike.

If it really wasn't ridden in the race, it should be easy to verify by looking at the race photographer shots to spot any unique identifiers.

Tearful Van den Dreissche: ?Bike belongs to my friend, I?d never cheat? - Sticky Bottle


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Owner of electric bike seized during Cyclocross World Championships revealed - Cycling Weekly
Also a story on the sporza page.
Vriend van Van den Driessche: "Het is mijn fiets"

Stories I've read suggest that it doesn't matter if was her bike or not or if she actually used it or not, it was found in her possession and therefore she is in violation. It's not like they found it at her home away from her "job", it was one of her pit bikes at the World freaking Champs. CX seems like it presents an ideal opportunity for this type of crap. You can pit up to 2 times per lap to swap bikes, so you don't have to ride what I assume is a heavier bike for more than a few minutes. The start is a chaotic bunch sprint where it would be too loud and crazy to hear the motor and you get the benefit of a couple hundred extra watts behind your sprint. Should make hole shots easier to grab. Or just pit prior to the half lap with the climb or power section where the extra watts will really make a difference on that key section, then pit again afterwards. There's video of her climb on the Koppenburg CX race where she drops EVERYONE else, best of the best at the front end of a World Cup, with apparent ease. I don't want to fall into the cynical "if they were faster they must be cheating" theory, but in hindsight this seems pretty suspicious.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

She does make that climb look easy. Looks to be the best line as well though.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Watching her legs, it just doesnt look like there is alot of effort compared to some of the others on the front.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Seems either pretty ballsy or pretty stupid when all someone has to do to tell if you're cheating is pull your seatpost.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The friend came forward

Van den Driessche?s friend claims ownership of motorised bike | Cyclingnews.com


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## rallymaniac (Oct 12, 2011)

Giger joins Wloszczowska at the polish Kross Racing Team.



__ https://www.facebook.com/KrossRacingTeam/posts/739676166134187


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Wow! I just saw where young cyclocross great, Mathieu van der Poel, was going to race MTB this spring/summer to try to qualify for the Rio Olympics. He has the skills and the engine. I'd love to see him mixing it up with Schurter and Julien.


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

bopApocalypse said:


> ... el. (That was in response to my observation that all the top-finishing FS bikes @ WC are all marketed as 100mm bikes, and surprise at doing a production 90mm bike)


The Epic WC is 95mm. Close enough I suppose, but not everything is 100mm.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Wow! I just saw where young cyclocross great, Mathieu van der Poel, was going to race MTB this spring/summer to try to qualify for the Rio Olympics. He has the skills and the engine. I'd love to see him mixing it up with Schurter and Julien.


I just came here to post about this! This will be awesome, MVdP is a beast on the bike known for his tech skills and engine in CX. And being the youngest elite World Champion ever. Hopefully he can make it to the lead group and have a whip contest with Nino mid race. Everyone assumes he'll migrate to the road as he progresses, very cool that he's going to dabble in MTB as well. Anyone know of Vos is still interested in MTB in Rio?
Veldritkrant.be | Nieuws | Mathieu van der Poel wil mountainbiken in Rio


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Dugast Tubular Update ? New Tubeless Casing |

Why is this relevant?

Richard N. is the owner and manufacturer of A. Dugast tires. The guy who makes the team tires for Nino Schurter and Jenny Rissveds. And like half of the tires used for races like Paris-Roubaix. If you watch any of the replays on Redbull, you'll often see him in the Scott-Odlo pit, handing up bottles or even helping with wheel changes.

If this carries over to the MTB realm, which I imagine it will, the ability to (easily) use sealant in those tires could change the game a bit. Nino had several of the early WC races compromised by flats last year, and I'm guessing Julien and Jaro knew that if they could get a lead on him, he was apt to exceed the ability of his tires trying to catch them, resulting in the occasional flat tire.


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## OLx6 (Feb 5, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> Dugast Tubular Update ? New Tubeless Casing |
> 
> Why is this relevant?
> 
> ...


I would love to see tubular tires become more durable. The idea is appealing in my opinion.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I have a set of Tufo XC4s. They have massive grip for their low tread profile. However, to get that grip, you have to lower the pressure a good amount. As rocky as the trails here are, they'd have to increase in volume significantly. They're labeled as a 2.2 but only measure out at 52mm. 

Fantastic short track tires, and tires for either smooth or rooty (NOT rocky) areas. Sharp, square edged rocks just ding rims too much with them.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

But flats were the only way Nino would lose. If he is flat free it will be incredibly hard to beat him.

How do you guys think absalons season will go? Ive always been fond of the old guy(my age). Does he have a chance for gold?


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## bopApocalypse (Aug 27, 2005)

New CX world champ seems to have mixed feelings on the new dugasts: http://www.cxmagazine.com/wout-van-aert-interview-2016-world-championships-parkcross

The previous link was interesting in the observation of guys running significantly higher pressure - that's typically viewed as a bad thing...


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

I find with more supple casings I need to run higher pressures.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ewarnerusa said:


> I just came here to post about this! This will be awesome, MVdP is a beast on the bike known for his tech skills and engine in CX. And being the youngest elite World Champion ever. Hopefully he can make it to the lead group and have a whip contest with Nino mid race. Everyone assumes he'll migrate to the road as he progresses, very cool that he's going to dabble in MTB as well. Anyone know of Vos is still interested in MTB in Rio?
> Veldritkrant.be | Nieuws | Mathieu van der Poel wil mountainbiken in Rio
> View attachment 1048192


Huge fan of MvdP. However, I think he will find MTBing difficult. I think he is just a bit too big to climb with the top riders.

Although, the climbs on the mountain bike course in Rio are pretty mellow. The kind of climbs a bigger rider with a lot of power can motor up.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

How big is he? I imagine he's pretty tall, but... He's very lean and doesn't look very muscular to me. I'd be surprised if he was over 150-155 or so


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

mudge said:


> How big is he? I imagine he's pretty tall, but... He's very lean and doesn't look very muscular to me. I'd be surprised if he was over 150-155 or so


You might be right, he is tall and lean, and it might just be the thermal skin suits that makes him look big.

Crazy how important weight is. 150lb rider still needs a threshold north of 400 watts to be competitive at the front of the field, but a 165lb rider needs a threshold of 450 watts. That is a lot of watts.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Can't find info on Van der Poel, but van Aert is 6', 145 according to Wikipedia. 

Knowing what I do about cross, I'd guess his threshold is more than sufficient to compete in XC, and his ability to do repetitive efforts well above threshold is even better.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

mudge said:


> Can't find info on Van der Poel, but van Aert is 6', 145 according to Wikipedia.
> 
> Knowing what I do about cross, I'd guess his threshold is more than sufficient to compete in XC, and his ability to do repetitive efforts well above threshold is even better.


Well we might get the chance to find out.

Although don't expect to see him racing Julien and Nino this year. He will have to cut his teeth in the u23 ranks.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

LMN said:


> Well we might get the chance to find out.
> 
> Although don't expect to see him racing Julien and Nino this year. He will have to cut his teeth in the u23 ranks.


Man, it's crazy to think that he's still that young! I had not even thought of that.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> I have a set of Tufo XC4s. They have massive grip for their low tread profile. However, to get that grip, you have to lower the pressure a good amount. As rocky as the trails here are, they'd have to increase in volume significantly. They're labeled as a 2.2 but only measure out at 52mm.
> 
> Fantastic short track tires, and tires for either smooth or rooty (NOT rocky) areas. Sharp, square edged rocks just ding rims too much with them.


That was my exact experience with Schwalbe Racing Ralph Tubulars.

I also have to wonder that when you change the tire construction to a tubeless type, that the advantage of the supple tubular casing goes away...and what you're left with is a high maintenance tubular with no advantage over a standard tubeless tire.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Go MvdH! Looking forward to someone with the engine to spice up World Cup MTBing! Van der Poel targets mountain bike ride at Olympic Games | Cyclingnews.com


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Hope he has more crossover success than Sven.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Any idea how old Sven was when he started XC racing? 

Oh, fwiw I wouldn't expect vdP to focus on mtb. He is a national hero/WC at cx and can make tons more money switching to the road than he could ever make on the mtb


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

mudge said:


> Any idea how old Sven was when he started XC racing?
> 
> Oh, fwiw I wouldn't expect vdP to focus on mtb. He is a national hero/WC at cx and can make tons more money switching to the road than he could ever make on the mtb


And as Junior road World Champ he certainly knows how to get it done. One side note, some cross guys stayed there instead of crossing over to road or MTB becuase they didn't like racing in the heat of summer, Niels Albert was one. That and during his peak him and Sven were getting paid similar to road guys who were winning Spring Classics.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

ewarnerusa said:


> Lechner wins her first race for Luna as well (cyclocross race EKZ Crosstour in Switzerland).
> Full Video Replay: EKZ CrossTour Men's and Women's Elite Races, Full Results - Cyclocross Magazine - Cyclocross News, Races, Bikes, Photos, Videos
> 
> I agree about the Absalon v. Schurter duel becoming stale. JA and NS just seem to be a level above everyone, while others showed the ability to hang for a bit but not for the whole race. I loved Fumic's ride up front with them. Fontana seems to have slipped back a bit, but he does rise back up for the really big races.
> ...


Ettinger is with RideBiker/Focus

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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Is there a good place to go to find what tires the World Cup XC racers run at various races? I'm a bit of a bike nerd and I love the techy aspects of the sport.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Usually the first race photos are a good place for tire spotting, it will be hard to find a single resource prior to the first race.



Stonerider said:


> Is there a good place to go to find what tires the World Cup XC racers run at various races? I'm a bit of a bike nerd and I love the techy aspects of the sport.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I saw that Gagne's tire sponsor was WTB. I guess he'll be saying goodbye to the Ikons he was running last year?

Todd Wells has left Specialized so I guess he'll be switching tires as well.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Stonerider said:


> I saw that Gagne's tire sponsor was WTB. I guess he'll be saying goodbye to the Ikons he was running last year?


WTB... So he will have to run the Nano I guess? Sure hope they are doing some custom versions for him. Every other tire WTB has is not exactly XC race oriented.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> I saw that Gagne's tire sponsor was WTB. I guess he'll be saying goodbye to the Ikons he was running last year?


Nine Line?


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## Afrobiker (Dec 19, 2010)

Gagne landed on Cannondale 360 with Keegan, Evelyn Dong, Alex Grant and Tinker.

Tires will still be WTB by the looks of the sponsors on the jersey.


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## rupps5 (Apr 9, 2010)

2015 Dong was running sb8 at breck epic


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

NordieBoy said:


> Nine Line?


is it fast? Nobody I know races them, and reviews don't sound like a fast tire.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I really, really hope that in an Olympic year, guys sponsored by WTB or Kenda either get some new custom tires, or simply run other people's stuff. 

Because it would really, really suck to train your ass off like these guys have and then miss your shot at the Olympics because your team signed Kenda or WTB as a tire sponsor.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

kevbikemad said:


> is it fast? Nobody I know races them, and reviews don't sound like a fast tire.


Very Ikon/Renegade/XR1 style micro knobs.
Brett Bellchambers uses them.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> Because it would really, really suck to train your ass off like these guys have and then miss your shot at the Olympics because your team signed Kenda or WTB as a tire sponsor.


I was thinking the same thing! Gagne rose to another level last season. I'd hate to see him not realize his full potential because of a tire sponsor.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Don't WC athletes get rubber we can't get our hands on?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> Don't WC athletes get rubber we can't get our hands on?


Not really. Sometimes they get it before everyone else. But one off tires are very rare.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Was it last year someone was interviewing Gunn-Rita's mechanic during the race and asked what tyres she was running and the mech said "Ikon's", the interviewer asked again several times thinking they had to be "special".


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Todd Wells said he will be running Maxxis tires this season on his Scott bikes.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

From our earlier discussion on Mathieu Van der Poel competing in World Cup MTB this season.


LMN said:


> Well we might get the chance to find out.
> 
> Although don't expect to see him racing Julien and Nino this year. He will have to cut his teeth in the u23 ranks.


I posted a comment to a Facebook post from Veldritkrant that was a story (in Dutch that I google translated) 
Veldritkrant.be | Nieuws | Van der Poel: via Cyprus, wereldbekers en Zweden richting Rio

It was talking about automatic qualifiers for the Dutch team based on "1 x top six. 2 x top twelve or ... top ten at European Championships". I replied via Facebook with a question about Mathieu competing MTB World Cup as a U23. They replied that because he was a professional he would be competing in the elite field. Does that sound right?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Holy crap. I just found out his maternal grandfather is Raymond "I Won the Vuelta, 5x Tour runner up" Poulidor.

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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ewarnerusa said:


> It was talking about automatic qualifiers for the Dutch team based on "1 x top six. 2 x top twelve or ... top ten at European Championships". I replied via Facebook with a question about Mathieu competing MTB World Cup as a U23. They replied that because he was a professional he would be competing in the elite field. Does that sound right?


Doesn't sound quite right to me. My understanding is only the top five U23 in the world cup series from the preceding year are permitted to race in the elite category if they desire(assuming that they are still under U23).

"Professional" doesn't mean the same in mountain biking as it does in cross and road racing. Lot of riders on UCI mountain bike elite teams are racing in the U23 ranks. Plus I don't believe that he is on a UCI mountain bike elite team. Right now (since he has zero UCI points) he would actually have to race for the Dutch National team to even start a world cup.

I hope that if he does show the speed on mountain bike the UCI will permit him to race in the elite category. But I think he is going to have to show that speed first.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Mathieu Van der Poel has the genetics, the horsepower, the skills, and he's fearless. He moved up to the UCI CX Elites at the age of 20 because he kicked tail in U23. Since then he's kicked tail in Elites right from the start. Except when he was coming back from a knee injury this season or the odd off day, which we all have, he's been untouchable. Since he's a star and has a big fan base I'm sure the UCI would grant him an exception and allow him to race Elites...we all know XC MTBing could use a little excitement to build ratings and increase the fan base. 

I have no doubt that if he can make his MTB hook up in the turns he'll be able to rub elbows with Shurter and Absalon. The climbs are a longer in MTBing than CX but he's lean so that should not be a problem for him. Don't forget he also does quite well when he races on the road. He's essentially the men's version of Pauline Ferrand-Prevot or Marianne Vos.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Holy crap. I just found out his maternal grandfather is Raymond "I Won the Vuelta, 5x Tour runner up" Poulidor.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


His dad was a cycling star, too. He's got some pretty premium genes.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> Mathieu Van der Poel has the genetics, the horsepower, the skills, and he's fearless. He moved up to the UCI CX Elites at the age of 20 because he kicked tail in U23. Since then he's kicked tail in Elites right from the start. Except when he was coming back from a knee injury this season or the odd off day, which we all have, he's been untouchable. Since he's a star and has a big fan base I'm sure the UCI would grant him an exception and allow him to race Elites...we all know XC MTBing could use a little excitement to build ratings and increase the fan base.
> 
> I have no doubt that if he can make his MTB hook up in the turns he'll be able to rub elbows with Shurter and Absalon. The climbs are a longer in MTBing than CX but he's lean so that should not be a problem for him. Don't forget he also does quite well when he races on the road. He's essentially the men's version of Pauline Ferrand-Prevot or Marianne Vos.


I don't disagree with you. I think he can race at the front of the elite field. And don't get me wrong I am a huge fan of him.

But personally I think it is going to take a couple of years for him to get up to speed of front riders. I think he will find himself a couple of steps off the front riders fitness wise and technically. I would like to see him immediately competitive, but as I said I suspect that it will be a much more difficult transition then many suspect. Remember he has never done a mountain bike race.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

And from the looks of it, he will be doing his first mountain bike race really soon. Cypress in end of February.

Despite what I said earlier I suspect he will absolutely crush everybody in Cypress. But a guy in full race form from racing CX should easily be able to beat riders who are still building their form for summer events.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> I really, really hope that in an Olympic year, guys sponsored by WTB or Kenda either get some new custom tires, or simply run other people's stuff.
> 
> Because it would really, really suck to train your ass off like these guys have and then miss your shot at the Olympics because your team signed Kenda or WTB as a tire sponsor.


WTB tires are strange. A comparison with almost every other major brands comparable tire shows them to be 100-200g heavier and stupid Schwalbe expensive.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

This is a youtube video looking at how Emily Batty started out mountain biking:

Ambitions ep1 - Feat. Emily Batty - The beginnings of a professional mountain biker





It looks like it's part one of a four part series so there should be some more released soon too.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

There are already 4 in that series about Emily Batty
















At least 2 more episodes in the pipeline. From Emily's Twitter feed today...

_*Emily Batty* ‏@emilybatty 1h
Filming Ambitions episodes 5 & 6, and maybe even something else special w/ @liammurphyfilms @adammorka _









Nicely produced, she has some good marketing people behind this. The Red Bull and Porsche dealer sponsorships are certainly part of that elevated marketing profile. And just in case you keep thinking the music sounds really familiar like something you've heard before, here's the music source.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

@ShimanoMTB tweeted a picture of them building up MvdP's Stevens hardtail. It looks like it had a Lauf fork on the front and XTR tubular wheels. I hope that Lauf fork is just for a smooth course.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Then they followed up with a photo of the completed build -- with a rigid fork. Maybe the Lauf is actually meant to be for the rough courses? I have to admit, to me, the Lauf forks look ridiculous and sound like they'd work very poorly on any kind of rough terrain... Maybe we'll all be clamoring to get one if he wins the Olympics!


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

*whip*

He loves his whips. It does look like a rigid fork. I'll try embedding a tweet, never done it before.









> First day out on my mtb! #loveit
>  @Plonsracing pic.twitter.com/BoWNvh8bJ0
> 
> - Mathieuvanderpoel (@mathieuvdpoel) February 17, 2016


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Yep, the last build photo tweeted by @ShimanoMTB shows a Stevens hardtail, rigid fork, XTR Di2 1x drivetrain, XT wheels, and Racing Ralph tires. Question, Why wouldn't he be using XTR wheels? And, does anyone else race WC XC with a rigid fork? I've always heard you should train on what you intend to use in the race.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Most of the riders on shimano wheels tend to train on XT wheels for some reason (probably ease of use and they're more disposable). Speaking of training on what you race, I've noticed lots of shimano pros ride 2x XTR in the offseason and 1x setups during racing.

Maybe the rigid fork is temporary while they decide what fork to run, I'm assuming his team doesn't have a fork sponsor.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I wonder if he thinks he will be racing rigid based on his background of not "needing" suspension in the off-road situations encountered in CX? He does have a lack of MTB racing experience after all. Maybe a trip or two down a rock garden like Nove Mesto or La Beatrice in Mont Sainte Anne and he'll be throwing a suspension fork on?

Although good point about the fork sponsor thing.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

What if he rides a Lauf?


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## Ben Edwards (Mar 13, 2015)

*MVdP on Lauf*



carlostruco said:


> What if he rides a Lauf?
> 
> I think he will ride Lauf, most of the Stevens pros, (Soren Nissen specifically) are riding Lauf. Granted Soren typically races marathons and ultraendurance races. Lauf is giving all of their riders the TR Boost at the moment (I would know because I race for Lauf) and production is running a bit slow which could explain why he's riding rigid at the moment. I'll be curious to see how it handles the World Cup courses, they will really test the limits of the fork. I've raced it in Pisgah and things got a little hairy; but nothing unrideable or dangerous.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> What if he rides a Lauf?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I suspect that once he discovers just how fast the front of the field descends he will be switching to a more traditional fork.


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## Ben Edwards (Mar 13, 2015)

Maybe, it really depends. You can descend pretty quickly on a Lauf, but descending is really where the fork gets questionable. The question is if the benefits of the fork will allow him to gain back time lost on descents in the flats and climbs; and I think there is a serious possibility for that. I'm just really curious to see how it performs at that level on courses that technical.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Is the Cyprus Sunshine Cup race this weekend that technical? Maybe it's pretty tame and that's why they've showed him training with a rigid fork.


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## Commonaeros (May 28, 2015)

Ben Edwards said:


> Maybe, it really depends. You can descend pretty quickly on a Lauf, but descending is really where the fork gets questionable. The question is if the benefits of the fork will allow him to gain back time lost on descents in the flats and climbs; and I think there is a serious possibility for that. I'm just really curious to see how it performs at that level on courses that technical.


I wouldn't want to be giving the front guys any advantage at all, I really doubt he'd be making up the huge chunks of time that could potentially be lost.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Looks like the kenda guys are riding the new saber tire. Tread looks promising. I'd like to try it.

__
http://instagr.am/p/BCMDnxWGQYQ/


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Florian Vogel won the opening TT at the Cyprus Sunshine Cup today with a time of 9:25. Some other notable times for me: Mathieu Van Der Poel was 10th with a time of 9:42 and Jaroslav Kulhavy was 16th at 9:46. That's a good showing for young MvdP but I realize it's only a 10 minute, solo effort. The next stages will let us know more about how the young CX star is going on the MTB.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Jaro posted a pic on Twitter today, and there are a few heavy hitters in Cyprus...


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

MvdP posted a picture on Instagram of him riding 52mm Dugasts and a DT Swiss OPM ODL Race fork about half an hour ago.


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## dokker (Sep 25, 2013)

csteven71 said:


> Looks like the kenda guys are riding the new saber tire. Tread looks promising. I'd like to try it.
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BCMDnxWGQYQ/


Something wrong with my eyes as I can't see thead from the picture?

BTW Mathieu Van der Poel was riding with DT-Swiss fork.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

dokker said:


> Something wrong with my eyes as I can't see thead from the picture?


Might need to get those eyes checked. 

Kenda Tires | Bicycle / Wheelchair | Saber Pro


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Stonerider said:


> Florian Vogel won the opening TT at the Cyprus Sunshine Cup today with a time of 9:25. Some other notable times for me: Mathieu Van Der Poel was 10th with a time of 9:42 and Jaroslav Kulhavy was 16th at 9:46. That's a good showing for young MvdP but I realize it's only a 10 minute, solo effort. The next stages will let us know more about how the young CX star is going on the MTB.


We also need to remember that Van der Poel are have a lot of racing in his body, Jaro, Flo and others are using Sunshine Cup as their startup to racing this season.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I guess MvdP was teasing us with those pre-race photos of his bike built up with a rigid and Lauf fork.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> Florian Vogel won the opening TT at the Cyprus Sunshine Cup today with a time of 9:25. Some other notable times for me: Mathieu Van Der Poel was 10th with a time of 9:42 and Jaroslav Kulhavy was 16th at 9:46. That's a good showing for young MvdP but I realize it's only a 10 minute, solo effort. The next stages will let us know more about how the young CX star is going on the MTB.


I am surprised that he was that far off.

Cypress is not technical and the effort is very short. I would expect a cyclocross rider, particularly in February, to be very good in a short race like that. Remember most of the mountain bike field has only been doing base miles. Everyone else has pretty well done zero speed work.

Although, if his training load is being managed appropriately he should be in the process of getting really slow right now. To be competitive at the world cups in May and June he is going to have to take a break from training right now.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Ok...why on Earth are some Pro riders on SRAM sponsored teams racing/training on SID forks when last year they were on RS-1's?


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## moab63 (Dec 29, 2003)

carlostruco said:


> Ok...why on Earth are some Pro riders on SRAM sponsored teams racing/training on SID forks when last year they were on RS-1's?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because is very heavy and the hub bearings go out quickly.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

RS-1 is not all that it was marketed to be. It's heavier, more expensive, and doesn't improve performance by any measurable amount.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

LMN said:


> I am surprised that he was that far off.
> 
> Cypress is not technical and the effort is very short. I would expect a cyclocross rider, particularly in February, to be very good in a short race like that. Remember most of the mountain bike field has only been doing base miles. Everyone else has pretty well done zero speed work.
> 
> Although, if his training load is being managed appropriately he should be in the process of getting really slow right now. To be competitive at the world cups in May and June he is going to have to take a break from training right now.


No worries LMN...Mathieu Van Der Poel won stage 2 today! I guess he'll wait a little longer before getting slow.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Fabian Giger and Grant Ferguson rounded out the podium...


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Stonerider said:


> RS-1 is not all that it was marketed to be. It's heavier, more expensive, and doesn't improve performance by any measurable amount.





moab63 said:


> Because is very heavy and the hub bearings go out quickly.





carlostruco said:


> Ok...why on Earth are some Pro riders on SRAM sponsored teams racing/training on SID forks when last year they were on RS-1's?


Decision from SRAM, their sponsored riders need to change back to SID this year for XCO-Racing. As the marketing department have taken the decision that RS-1 are only for Marathon. Therefore you will almost only see RS-1 fork on riders that don't have a team deal with SRAM. (Or bikes that are tightly bounded to RS-1 like the Epic WC)


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The RS-1 was not very friendly for fast front wheel changes, so marathon use makes sense where seconds don't count against you as much as they do in XCO racing.


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## bopApocalypse (Aug 27, 2005)

plupp said:


> Decision from SRAM, their sponsored riders need to change back to SID this year for XCO-Racing. As the marketing department have taken the decision that RS-1 are only for Marathon. Therefore you will almost only see RS-1 fork on riders that don't have a team deal with SRAM. (Or bikes that are tightly bounded to RS-1 like the Epic WC)


I just happened to be perusing specialized's site this morning, and was surprised to see the $6000 S-Build Epic framesets (both WC and non-WC) coming with a SID, and the $5700 non-S-Build framesets with the RS1.

But I also forget that there are SIDs out there that aren't 1/2 the price of the RS1, so the price discrepancy makes more sense.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

carlostruco said:


> Ok...why on Earth are some Pro riders on SRAM sponsored teams racing/training on SID forks when last year they were on RS-1's?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because the RS1 is a terrible, heavy fork. Combine that with the front hub situation and you have your answer.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

There's an interesting interview with Marianne Vos here:

She confirms that she won't be focusing on mountain biking this year.

It's unclear whether she is actually well enough to race this year at all. The implication seems to be that she massively overtrained over many years (when you consider her schedule in past years pre 2015 it was packed! ) and that hit so hard she was basically forced to stop cycling for a lot of 2015. There isn't a firm date for 2016 either. If you look at the related articles below this one in the link there is a similar article from April 26 2015, where she was trying to make a comeback then, before being forced to stop again.

Hopefully she is well and ready to go. Based on examples from other endurance sports that sort of overtraining can be hard to impossible to recover from though.

----------------------------

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/the-white-line-is-calling-an-end-to-the-year-without-marianne-vos/

*A Multi Discipline Season?*
Following her golden year in 2012, in which she won just about everything one can win on the road -the world cup series, Olympic gold and the world championships -Vos decided she needed a new challenge and set her sights on mountain biking with the ultimate goal of making it to the Olympics.

- "What happened to your mountain biking aspirations? Is that still happening?" I ask.

"No. That's not happening. Physically I'm not there," Vos states. "I have to get fit first and mountain biking, from the start, was always a challenge in which I didn't know if I could succeed. I had my doubts and I knew it was going to be very difficult. Mountain biking doesn't suit my strengths naturally but I did very much enjoy doing it. I improved my technical skills but I noticed I did still have a ways to go. And I know that, with the way things are now, I cannot combine the two. I don't want to take any risks and my full focus is now on the road.

...

*A Tough Year But Also An Eye Opening One*
Plain and simple, 2015 was a crap year for Vos. It's one she'd gladly skip altogether if she could. Her passion, her job, her everyday life even her identity was uprooted when she couldn't race anymore.

"I had too many good days and too much hope to succumb to depression but sure, there were bad days. Nights I couldn't sleep and days where I'd wonder what I was getting out of bed for. I felt so incredibly useless. I always want to bring value to something and be of use. And how was I going to do that?" Vos says.

The frustration lay in the uncertainty. The not knowing when she'd be able to train again, race again, be herself again.

"You know at some point, you get really tired of people asking you how things are going when you, yourself, don't know the answer. Overtraining or 'overreaching' is not like a broken bone. The doctors couldn't give me a set date. I had to feel it out, find balance and that is completely against my nature. I want to find the limit, not balance. I certainly got a lesson in patience," says Vos.

Eventually she was able to turn her drive of always wanting to be the best into becoming the best at resting and recovering and finding purpose in that.

"It was harder than training. Still is," says Vos.

The year wasn't wasted, however, as it brought her some valuable life lessons.

"I more than ever before realized how special it is to be healthy and that you shouldn't take it for granted. It's a blessing not a guarantee. It was a little irritating to come to that realisation at the moment I no longer have it, but that's how it goes. That's the irony of life," says Vos.

"But because I was forced to take a break from my everyday routine, I realized just how much I love doing this. Whereas two years ago, had someone asked me how long I wanted to continue [racing] I might have said 'I don't know, maybe 3 or 4 years' because it eventually becomes a grind. But now I have no date in mind at all. I think it's the most beautiful thing one can do. I tried doing other things [turns out that motorcycles are not her thing] but nothing compares to professional sport."

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/the-white-line-is-calling-an-end-to-the-year-without-marianne-vos/

-------------------------------


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Based strictly on the wide variety of top tier results she has achieved, I wonder about the same for PFP in the future. Maybe she has a better handle on her volume of racing and training, but time will tell.



WR304 said:


> There's an interesting interview with Marianne Vos here:
> 
> She confirms that she won't be focusing on mountain biking this year.
> 
> It's unclear whether she is actually well enough to race this year at all. The implication seems to be that she massively overtrained over many years (when you consider her schedule in past years pre 2015 it was packed! ) and that hit so hard she was basically forced to stop cycling for a lot of 2015. There isn't a firm date for 2016 either. If you look at the related articles below this one in the link there is a similar article from April 26 2015, where she was trying to make a comeback then, before being forced to stop again.


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## Commonaeros (May 28, 2015)

I can't speak German well enough, but from what I can gather Merida have a new prototype Hardtail which is home to a new Sid prototype.
Any German speakers care to elaborate?

link - Prototyp: Rock Shox SID und Merida Racehardtail - MTB-News.de


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

There isn't much message in the text. Just that they do not really know what's new about the bike. They just took those pictures.

They assume that this is a new top of the line SID. Almost the entire Merida team was seen with these. It is speculated that weight and difficulty to swap front tires may have caused some dissatisfaction with RS1 among teams. That's why RS may have come up with a new top model fork.

Gunn-Rita is all about Rio this season. She has even replicated the course in Norway. She intends to ride the entire season on this hardtail since Rio is a HT course. The new bike could have been tailored for her.

That's about it


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

quax said:


> They assume that this is a new top of the line SID. Almost the entire Merida team was seen with these. It is speculated that weight and difficulty to swap front tires may have caused some dissatisfaction with RS1 among teams. That's why RS may have come up with a new top model fork.


As I wrote a couple of entries above, SRAM sponsored riders are pointed in the direction of using SID instead of RS-1 from SRAM, not by their own options. They are trying to get SID back as their XC fork, and move the RS-1 for marathon. (Guess the SID did drop in sell when they released RS-1)


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

From the comments below the German article: according to the author the shown SID is not a new one. But a new top SID is to be expected for this year. Other teams are already riding it.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Some things that were linked in other threads.

Nino Schurter Hunt For Glory Youtube series. These are the 2015 videos (Episodes 4, 5 and 9 were the best I thought)


































Nino Schurter gym work





Jaroslav Kulhavy's 2016 S-Works Epic WC. His saddle position looks less extreme than in previous years. That's a big front chainring!


__
http://instagr.am/p/BBklNdiyCgu/










This picture of Marianne Vos is from 2014. If you look closely she is on a sponsor correct Giant bike.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

plupp said:


> Decision from SRAM, their sponsored riders need to change back to SID this year for XCO-Racing. As the marketing department have taken the decision that RS-1 are only for Marathon. Therefore you will almost only see RS-1 fork on riders that don't have a team deal with SRAM. (Or bikes that are tightly bounded to RS-1 like the Epic WC)


How will SRAM say they are a better option for marathon?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Anyone else think Nino has huge hammys?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

WR304 said:


> Jaroslav Kulhavy's 2016 S-Works Epic WC. His saddle position looks less extreme than in previous years. That's a big front chainring!


Looks like about 40t.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

NordieBoy said:


> Looks like about 40t.


38T is my guess, the Epic WC can't take 40T chainring with good chainline.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Raphael Gagne and Catharine Pendrel were winners of the first Canadian Cup race yesterday. Emily Batty was second in the women's race (I thought I'd mention that since she seems to have a big fan base). 

Raphael seems to have adjusted to his Cannondale FSi frame and WTB tires just fine.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

One fallen chain and this is result. // Kulhavy









To bad to see him injured at this time of the year


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> Raphael Gagne and Catharine Pendrel were winners of the first Canadian Cup race yesterday. Emily Batty was second in the women's race (I thought I'd mention that since she seems to have a big fan base).
> 
> Raphael seems to have adjusted to his Cannondale FSi frame and WTB tires just fine.


That was a good win for Catharine. She broke her right thumb in training the previous week. Fortunately with Di2 she was able to switch all the shifting to the left shifter.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

What happened to Kabush, he's just shown as a DNS at Bear Mountain.

With the XCO race season starting so early this season, are the riders going to have to choose between doing well in the World Cup series and World Champs, or being in prime shape for the Olympics in July? There's only 17 days between the World Champs XCO race in Nove Mesto and Rio MTB races, and just 10 days after the XCO World Cup in Lenzerheide the Olympic MTB events. And there's only 3 days between the Canadian XC Champs and the races in Rio.



LMN said:


> That was a good win for Catharine. She broke her right thumb in training the previous week. Fortunately with Di2 she was able to switch all the shifting to the left shifter.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Kibosh apparently wasn't feeling ready to race yet.

The Olympics are in Mid-August. The schedule works pretty well, but I suspect you will see some riders missing from some events.



rockyuphill said:


> What happened to Kabush, he's just shown as a DNS at Bear Mountain.
> 
> With the XCO race season starting so early this season, are the riders going to have to choose between doing well in the World Cup series and World Champs, or being in prime shape for the Olympics in July? There's only 17 days between the World Champs XCO race in Nove Mesto and Rio MTB races, and just 10 days after the XCO World Cup in Lenzerheide the Olympic MTB events. And there's only 3 days between the Canadian XC Champs and the races in Rio.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

LMN said:


> Kibosh apparently wasn't feeling ready to race yet.


Ha! Good one.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

kevbikemad said:


> Ha! Good one.


"Kabush Kibosh yesterday racing". Some times typos workout.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Oh, August. Missed it by that much. That makes more sense with the wacky WC XCO calendar. It's a really early World Champs this year.



LMN said:


> Kibosh apparently wasn't feeling ready to race yet.
> 
> The Olympics are in Mid-August. The schedule works pretty well, but I suspect you will see some riders missing from some events.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Kabush posted on his Instagram account that he was not feeling it and was skipping this first race...


WTF happened to Jaro? That dude can't catch a break!!! 


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Looks like the breaks catch him...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Ok...does anybody have any idea what
kind of wheels Bontrager is putting on the TFR team? Pictures I have seen of Sergio Mantecon, Bec Henderson and DMC suggest a wider and taller rim profile...maybe carbon...


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Yep, those do like very wide rims. I think her videographer got a good, close look at them.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Yeah...we should ask him...


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

...as soon as he wakes up.

The TLR Rhythm Pro rims are 29mm external/22.5mm internal, but those do look wider than that. Although that may just be the bigger/bolder graphics that make it look that way



carlostruco said:


> Yeah...we should ask him...


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

I think Jaro is up to something lol. Seems like a good plan to not overdue the racing and come in hot for olympics.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

That looks like a carbon rim...

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## m3bas (Dec 24, 2011)

Ive seen McConnell's up close, definitely carbon and do look wide but no idea specs.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

rockyuphill said:


> Yep, those do like very wide rims. I think her videographer got a good, close look at them.


Rhythm Pro or RXL bars? and a dropper post too.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

NordieBoy said:


> Rhythm Pro or RXL bars? and a dropper post too.


That's a fuel ex. I don't think she's ever raced on one. Must be a for "fun" training bike.

Shame about Jaro. That's what? 3 seasons of injury?


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

csteven71 said:


> Shame about Jaro. That's what? 3 seasons of injury?





jaroslavkulhavy.cz said:


> _The news which came from Cyprus today are not good. Jaroslav broke his hand during the second part of Sunshine Cup race. It is an unpleasant complication on the beggining of the olympic season.
> 
> "I've got a plaster. It seems it's a double fracture. Im heading to Motol hospital in Prague and we will know more tomorrow&#8230;" told Jaroslav after he left Cyprus hospital.
> 
> "In the second lap my chain felt off of behind the cassete in the downhill. I put it back and when I started to pedal hard again, maybe one of the links were broken and it send me over the bars. Unfortunately there was some small rock and I felt a level down. I heard some bad sounds coming from my hand, so I knew immidiately it's not good&#8230;" said Jaroslav less than six months before olympic games in Rio._


Hopefully a better recovery than then Emil Lindgren got from his broken elbow during last years Cape Epic, some injuries will take time to regain strength to control the bike during race speed.


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## Ben Edwards (Mar 13, 2015)

Luckily hand injuries aren't detrimental to overall strength. Depending on the bone he broke he could be out for several months though.


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## sandyf (Sep 3, 2012)

Don't rule out Mr. Grotts


J-Flo said:


> Predictions:
> 
> A bunch of Swiss will kick butt, again. 5 of the top 10 male riders will be Swiss.
> 
> ...


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## Ben Edwards (Mar 13, 2015)

Howard Grotts is a fast starter but can't hold the pace later in the race. He'll need a very good call-up to make it in the top 20.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Ben Edwards said:


> Howard Grotts is a fast starter but can't hold the pace later in the race. He'll need a very good call-up to make it in the top 20.


doesn't he have a broken rib right now? I saw it on either Twitter or Instagram...


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

WR304 said:


> If you've been following the motorised cyclo cross bike story it's getting dafter by the day.
> 
> First it emerges that Femke Van den Driessche's brother Niels is currently serving a ban for EPO use.
> 
> ...


A day before she was due to face the UCI tribunal Femke Van den Driessche dropped her defence and announced that she intends to "retire" from cyclo cross.

Femke Van den Driessche drops defence in mechanical doping case | road.cc

Also linked is this article from Sporza. Apparently the friend who came forwards claiming it was their bike has no idea how to operate the motor on the bike in question, and doesn't even know where the button to operate it was.

Vandegoor over Van den Driessche: "In zekere zin is dit een schuldbekentenis"

.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Not looking good for her at all...


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

She's walking away from the sport...good riddance!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

carlostruco said:


> That looks like a carbon rim...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They look suspiciously like the DT Swiss XMC 1200s that come stock on the consumer version of that bike.

By all accounts, a great set of wheels.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> They look suspiciously like the DT Swiss XMC 1200s that come stock on the consumer version of that bike.
> 
> By all accounts, a great set of wheels.












I think you're onto something.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

How many people would consider standing on a balance beam and juggling to be a recovery exercise?
Other than Nino of course.


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## sandyf (Sep 3, 2012)

Nino is insane! I seriously doubt that he does that kind of off-the-bike exercise all that frequently during the season, though. Gotta stay fresh for all those intervals!


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Some pictures and results from the 2016 Absa Cape Epic:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/absa-cape-epic-grand-finale-wrap-up-2016.html

Manuel Fumic finished fourth overall.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

I thought this rider's eye view of the 2016 Absa Cape Epic was a really good read.

Well worth the time to look through.

http://www.manyniches.com/mountain-biking-2/2016-absa-cape-epic-race-report/

.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

If Fontana (edited) was wearing a skin suit instead of those awful baggy shorts he might have been able to beat Nino in the sprint yesterday. It's all about aero and marginal gains.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

It was Fontana...


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

carlostruco said:


> It was Fontana...


Thanks. I corrected my post.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I have to wonder if he's regretting the baggies and loose fitting jersey right now. He doesn't come to the line with ol' Nino Schurter very often, and the energy his clothing cost him over the course of the race, and then the final sprint could very well have been the deciding factor.

And, let's be brutally honest. While I love the CFR dudes, they (aside from Cooper) don't win very much, aside from their respective national championships. Looking cool is one thing, putting a big W in the bank once or twice a year is another thing entirely. Particularly when it comes to maintaining sponsorship and a paycheck.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

There is an interview on why Manuel Fumic started wearing baggies, but don't know were...

I could be mistaken but Fontana looked gassed and out of steam as he let go from the sprint before the finish...


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## danielsilva (Aug 13, 2011)

I think it just boils down on strength, Fontana gave it all since it was his home turf but the legs couldn't keep up with that last effort from Nino.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

carlostruco said:


> There is an interview on why Manuel Fumic started wearing baggies, but don't know were...
> 
> I could be mistaken but Fontana looked gassed and out of steam as he let go from the sprint before the finish...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My point was that his baggies and loose jersey were requiring him to put forth a very slightly higher effort to ride the same speed the entire race.

That effort adds up (just like bike weight, being 3lbs overweight, slower tires, or any other thing that might result in a greater effort to go the same speed), and might explain why he didn't have the legs to really contest the sprint.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

True...


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> I
> Particularly when it comes to maintaining sponsorship and a paycheck.


My guess is that Cannondale are paying Fumic and Fontana a lot of money because they give them extra value with their way of behaving, and those baggies and their new outfit (new approach on how build cycling clothes) from their sponsor Sugoi is just what they are looking for.

If you looking for C1 or C2-races remember that Fontana already took the win at one of the stages in Cyprus. Regarding WC, that is almost only shared between Nino and Absalon, I think for the others a podium spot will make their sponsors more than happy, and also why teams are looking for other things than only big wins in MTB. To be the only riders with baggies in the top 10 spots is a good PR thing.

If you look at Cannondale, what other rider could their team manager sign that will bag them more top spots and better PR? If you look at their Youtube serie, I actually think they are one of few riders in the WC circuit making good money.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

Let's face it, while being probably two of the most accomplished athletes out there, Schurter and Absalon are a little pale when it comes to charisma. Scott tries very hard with all the Nino-videos, marketing and "styling" but he will never become a Tinker Juarez










Or a Ned Overend or John Tomac. The latter about the 90s: "That era of mountain biking to me was like a cartoon superhero comic book ... We had all these characters with different personas and styles. Tinker was one these special characters. The way he did things was really special."

This is lacking nowadays. Always the same two riders winning, no further story. And this is bad for the marketing guys. So if they can't win be creative and fill the "coolness void" differently. And that is what Cannondale is doing. Kinda silly that it takes baggy shorts to be "cool". Admittedly, Fumic and Fontana are real so they don't have to pretend to be "cool".


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I wonder how many of the WC riders are going to show up at the US Cup races. I saw Fontana, Fumic, and I think Yamamoto. last year. It'd be cool to see a few of them show up again this year.


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## sandyf (Sep 3, 2012)

RS VR6 said:


> I wonder how many of the WC riders are going to show up at the US Cup races. I saw Fontana, Fumic, and I think Yamamoto. last year. It'd be cool to see a few of them show up again this year.


Rio might throw a wrench into that this year.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

plupp said:


> My guess is that Cannondale are paying Fumic and Fontana a lot of money because they give them extra value with their way of behaving, and those baggies and their new outfit (new approach on how build cycling clothes) from their sponsor Sugoi is just what they are looking for.


Extra value by getting 2nd instead of 1st? That's a new theory. Looks to me like Cannonade and Sugoi need to study some of the Specialized wind tunnel tests. There was one where they tested Conrad Stoltz. Here I'll post the link so it'll be easy for the Cannondale and Sugoi sponsors to find: https://www.youtube.com/watchv=4ReDmvjailA


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

I'd love to see a 3rd (or 4th) competitor for those top spots. I've been watching the WCs since 2011 or so and the upsets (not Absalon or Nino) are few and far between. Dan McConnell winning Albstat in the muck still is one of my favorite races.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Manuel Fumic won the last stage of the Absa Cape Epic this year so he's not going that badly.

https://marathonmtb.com/2016/03/21/karl-platt-claims-5th-absa-cape-epic-crown/










Despite both riding for Cannondale Factory Racing Manuel Fumic was wearing baggy shorts, whilst his team mate Henrique Avancini was wearing lycra shorts.

I had thought that the baggy shorts were team issue somehow. Perhaps I was wrong?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Nope...

Avancini and Anton Cooper are always on bibs...


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Are we forgetting that ol' Jaroslav Kulhavy won two WCs last year?


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Stonerider said:


> Extra value by getting 2nd instead of 1st? That's a new theory. Looks to me like Cannonade and Sugoi need to study some of the Specialized wind tunnel tests. There was one where they tested Conrad Stoltz. Here I'll post the link so it'll be easy for the Cannondale and Sugoi sponsors to find: https://www.youtube.com/watchv=4ReDmvjailA


But do you really think a sponsor contract is decided by a smaller UCI-C1 competition before the real season starts? And the win for Nino over Fontana was due to Fontana using baggies in the sprint, not Nino's extra power?

Keep it real, if Cannondale and their factory racing team really think that Fontana or Fumic would win more races due to wearing only lycra they would force them to do so.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

The Specialized Win Tunnel experiment with the baggies vs Lycra bugs me because they put the guy in a flappy freeride shirt. I wear baggies almost all the time, but never a freeride flappy shirt. I think it's the same for the CFR guys.


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

RS VR6 said:


> I wonder how many of the WC riders are going to show up at the US Cup races. I saw Fontana, Fumic, and I think Yamamoto. last year. It'd be cool to see a few of them show up again this year.


Last year Nino showed up at Bonelli Park in So-Cal as well as other World Cup riders. The HC category races are few here in the States, but Kenda Cup #4 (April 9 2016) is also a US Cup and UCI HC race and I am hopeful to see Nino, Marco, Manny, and others like we have seen in the past here again. I live 20 minutes from there and I am racing in the Kenda Cup on Sunday but will go and watch the Elite on Saturday. I really wish we could get a World Cup here but from what I hear it is just too costly and the UCI mandates it's sponsors get like 60% of the top spots, leaving scraps for local sponsors. I'm off right now to go ride Bonelli. Have a great day!


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## sandyf (Sep 3, 2012)

trmn8er said:


> Last year Nino showed up at Bonelli Park in So-Cal as well as other World Cup riders. The HC category races are few here in the States, but Kenda Cup #4 (April 9 2016) is also a US Cup and UCI HC race and I am hopeful to see Nino, Marco, Manny, and others like we have seen in the past here again. I live 20 minutes from there and I am racing in the Kenda Cup on Sunday but will go and watch the Elite in Saturday. I really wish we could get a World Cup here but from what I hear it is just too costly and the UCI mandates it's sponsors get like 60% of the top spots, leaving scraps for local sponsors. I'm off right now to go ride Bonelli. Have a great day!


I watched some of the coverage of the Bonelli Pro XCT race from last year on YouTube, and I do remember them saying that it looked "likely" that we would get a World Cup round in Bonelli. Shame that seems to have gone nowhere


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> Are we forgetting that ol' Jaroslav Kulhavy won two WCs last year?


Yep, I totally forgot Jaro. I feel silly now. Always a fan of the big man.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

Regarding baggies, I understand CFRs decision to run them, but I'm surprised they still do:

Strava has enabled me to really look into what affects my pace for a given stretch of trail or road. Aside from trail conditions, the only other two things that actually cause a measurable decrease in pace for me are...

1. Running grippy trail tires that roll more slowly *(this disadvantage actually goes away if the trail is always turning or rough)

2. Baggies, every time, baggies are slower for me.

Maybe Sugoi has a trick up their sleeve with their baggies...but the ones I've run always slow me down. I wish it weren't true.

One thing that hasn't had a measurable impact on recorded times is suspension travel and hardtail vs full suspension.

I guess this is getting OT now...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

WC races start in a few weeks in Australia...lets see how much traveling will the top WC guys submit themselves to in an Olympic year...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I think the US cups are going to see a much lower attendance this year. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the last year of them (Bonellie and Fontana) being UCI races.

But the grapevine has a world cup at Sea Otter next year. I will only believe that once the race actually happens.


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

I think us getting a couple HC races is UCIs way to pacify USA. I really hope they don't do away with them. I'd really like to see Sea Otter get a World Cup but I seriously doubt it. UCI seems kinda like the FIA is to Formula One. European based and our US market is not their priority unless we are willing to fund it. I suspect it takes massive dollars. 

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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Its a shame that more people don't show up to watch. Bonelli is a pretty nice venue. We rode at a local trail and then went to watch the race. Brought the lawn chairs and food. Not a bad way to spend the afternoon.

Bonelli would be a nice WC stop. The town that its nestled in is nice too.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

trmn8er said:


> I think us getting a couple HC races is UCIs way to pacify USA. I really hope they don't do away with them. I'd really like to see Sea Otter get a World Cup but I seriously doubt it. UCI seems kinda like the FIA is to Formula One. European based and our US market is not their priority unless we are willing to fund it. I suspect it takes massive dollars.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


It does take cash. The big difference is Europe people pay to go to spectate races.

But still Canada has managed a host a WC race for every single year, and some times multiple ones. Rumor has two WCs in Canada is 2017 (MSA and Whistler)


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## sandyf (Sep 3, 2012)

LMN said:


> It does take cash. The big difference is Europe people pay to go to spectate races.
> 
> But still Canada has managed a host a WC race for every single year, and some times multiple ones. Rumor has two WCs in Canada is 2017 (MSA and Whistler)


Whistler for XC or just DH?


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

Yup and we lost Windham too so I really hope we get at least one. 

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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

RS VR6 said:


> Its a shame that more people don't show up to watch. Bonelli is a pretty nice venue. We rode at a local trail and then went to watch the race. Brought the lawn chairs and food. Not a bad way to spend the afternoon.
> 
> Bonelli would be a nice WC stop. The town that its nestled in is nice too.


True. It is a great venue. Just got done riding it today and dirt was good.

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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

sandyf said:


> Whistler for XC or just DH?


I have heard both. But again you hear rumor about WCs all theme. For a while there was suppose to be one in my home town (Kamloops BC).


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## sandyf (Sep 3, 2012)

LMN said:


> I have heard both. But again you hear rumor about WCs all theme. For a while there was suppose to be one in my home town (Kamloops BC).


I would love to see one in Whistler. I'm always looking for an excuse to go up there.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

brentos said:


> One thing that hasn't had a measurable impact on recorded times is suspension travel and hardtail vs full suspension.
> 
> I guess this is getting OT now...


I wish it weren't so, but:

My HT is significantly slower uphill and downhill on the rocky climbs around here. By rocky, I mean baby heads with no soil between them for a couple hundred yards at a time.

As a result, I throw a leg over it like once a month now.

I expect that we'll continue to see the trickle down of better and better FS designs from WC racing. FS used to be a rarity, but there was a race last year where Flo Vogel was the only guy in the top 10 on a HT. That bodes well for us, as consumers.

I'm still waiting for the official announcement of the new 2017 Cannondale Scalpel. Looks like they've F-Si'd it. Perfect.


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## danielsilva (Aug 13, 2011)

ewarnerusa said:


> The Specialized Win Tunnel experiment with the baggies vs Lycra bugs me because they put the guy in a flappy freeride shirt. I wear baggies almost all the time, but never a freeride flappy shirt. I think it's the same for the CFR guys.


And even then the shorts are different, the shorts i use are a lot "tighter" than my Enduro ones, mostly because my liner shorts have a lot more padding for AM use than the ones i use for XC, they're completely different.



brentos said:


> Regarding baggies, I understand CFRs decision to run them, but I'm surprised they still do:
> 
> Strava has enabled me to really look into what affects my pace for a given stretch of trail or road. Aside from trail conditions, the only other two things that actually cause a measurable decrease in pace for me are...


Between my baggies and bib i see no discernible difference on my GPS data that could be attributed to using either, not when there are a plethora of other more influential variables at hand.

Considering the avg speeds most XC is ridden and weather conditions, i can't believe that wearing proper XC baggies will have discernible/influential effect on non-WC level XC riding.

In this case i think, as much i like Fontana ( he and Fumic are the only ones i actively follow on social media ), Nino was simply better than him.


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

LMN said:


> I think the US cups are going to see a much lower attendance this year. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the last year of them (Bonellie and Fontana) being UCI races.
> 
> But the grapevine has a world cup at Sea Otter next year. I will only believe that once the race actually happens.


Fontana is this weekend. Wish there were a way to watch it. With back to back UCI HC races next weekend (Bonelli No. 2) and the week after (Sea Otter) it seems like a halfway decent strategy to attract big names for a US West Coast visit 10 days before Cairns WC.

A Sea Otter WC would be cool, with thousands in attendance. That said, the Sea Otter course used in recent years is very non-technical and festooned with abominable fire road descents. The main distinction has been length, I think 38 miles (2 laps) last year, which is not spectator-friendly. To improve the race for spectators would require multiple laps on a shorter loop, which is eminently doable if the sponsors want to make it happen. They haven't disclosed the Pro course yet for this year.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

You can clearly see Fontana looks like a parachute beside the smart and aero Shurter.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)




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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

XCE from the Pan-Am Champs...my teammate won!!!

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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Damn, didn't realise Anton Cooper is racing Elite this year!


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Goran_injo said:


>


Wow...that was like a road race sprint finish. Brute force on Nino's part.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Goran_injo said:


>





RS VR6 said:


> Wow...that was like a road race sprint finish. Brute force on Nino's part.


Here's a longer video from the race:






Looking at the video there are a couple of things that stand out. Nino Schurter forced Marco Fontana to open up the sprint from a long way out, which gave Nino Schurter a tactical advantage as he was able to sit in the draft and choose his moment to come round him. Marco Fontana looked to be fading before he reached the line. I counted around 20 seconds for the sprint and Marco Fontana looked done at 15 seconds approx, exactly where Nino Schurter started his sprint.

If you watch the body language of Nino Schurter covering Marco Fontana early on I think Nino Schurter had more left in the tank at the end and the result was never really in doubt.

At the same time the sprint was on gravel. You can see that there was a good clean line that Marco Fontana was on, and then deeper gravel on the outside that Nino Schurter was forced to ride in to pass him, which would have been a disadvantage for Nino Schurter.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Nino also looked to already be in top gear, whereas Marco shifts during the sprint.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

yesterday, Swiss Bike Cup in Rivera ... like last season


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

quax said:


> yesterday, Swiss Bike Cup in Rivera ... like last season


The gap from Nino and Julien to the field is huge. Small chase group mopping up positions 4-6, then it looks like everyone else was either shattered or else put it in training mode (or both) after realizing the front of the race was way out of reach.


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## jarhead22 (Feb 26, 2014)

do you guys know where i could see the replay of the swiss cup race i was hoping it would be in red bull tv. but its not


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

AFAIK, RedBull only covers the World Cup rounds. You might be able to find a replay on YouTube but it might not be up yet.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Yeah...somebody usually post footage of Swiss races...and more if it is a BMC Cup...


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

NordieBoy said:


> Nino also looked to already be in top gear, whereas Marco shifts during the sprint.


That whole drafting then sprinting thing helps. Marco gave Nino a great, baggies-and-loose-jersey-enhanced, leadout.


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## Fakie1999 (Feb 14, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> That whole drafting then sprinting thing helps. Marco gave Nino a great, baggies-and-loose-jersey-enhanced, leadout.


Yeah, that was a textbook video on how to win a sprint. Or lose one, depending on if you're a glass half full or half empty type of person.


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

Nice to see Marco battle it out with Nino. Usually it's Julian or Jaro. It will be interesting to see if the top men and women choose to peak for the Olympics more so than WC races. It would seem that you can only be at your peak a limited amount of time during the season. 

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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

This thread is gonna be very long this being an Olympic year...

And its getting funny also...

Nice one Le Duke!


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## OLx6 (Feb 5, 2011)

For those that have not seen this episode yet it is fairly interesting. Covers Emily Batty's workout program a little. Then they elude to how a cameraman got a close up picture of her tire and new wheel set. 
Ambitions: Episode Five, Featuring Emily Batty - Video - Pinkbike


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## bopApocalypse (Aug 27, 2005)

WR304 said:


> Here's a longer video from the race:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I haven't watched the whole video, but it seems clear that Fontana started his sprint too early to hold it all the way to the line.

Tactically speaking, how exactly does one rider 'force' another to start their sprint at a certain point?


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

OLx6 said:


> For those that have not seen this episode yet it is fairly interesting. Covers Emily Batty's workout program a little. Then they elude to how a cameraman got a close up picture of her tire and new wheel set.
> Ambitions: Episode Five, Featuring Emily Batty - Video - Pinkbike


Pretty sure I'm gonna do a mockumentry series like Emily's "Ambitions" & Nino's "Hunt for Glory".

Can't decide on a title though, either "Regressions" or "Hunt for Mediocrity" - watch for it nowhere.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

kevbikemad said:


> Pretty sure I'm gonna do a mockumentry series like Emily's "Ambitions" & Nino's "Hunt for Glory".
> 
> Can't decide on a title though, either "Regressions" or "Hunt for Mediocrity" - watch for it nowhere.


Make sure you watch Eddie Masters vids.
Spirit of Enduro and Gets Fat are 2 brilliant ones.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

bopApocalypse said:


> I haven't watched the whole video, but it seems clear that Fontana started his sprint too early to hold it all the way to the line.
> 
> Tactically speaking, how exactly does one rider 'force' another to start their sprint at a certain point?


If you have two fairly evenly matched riders, in a one on one sprint in a straight line, the advantage goes to the rider who is sat behind just before the sprint begins.

The rider who is in front has a disadvantage because they can't see what the other rider is doing. They have one option available. With no rear view mirrors they have to try and anticipate what the rider behind will do, adding stress and an element of guesswork. If the rider in front sprints too early then they will fade and be passed before the line. If the rider in front is caught napping, and doesn't respond in time to an attack, then the rider behind could jump them and quickly gain a lead of several bike lengths, winning anyway.

The rider who is behind has an advantage precisely because they can see what the rider in front is doing. They have multiple options available. The second rider can read from the body language and positioning of the lead rider what they are likely to do. When the lead rider starts sprinting there is no element of surprise. The second rider can also start sprinting immediately at the same time. As they are in the draft the second rider get the additional energy saving benefit of slipstreaming the rider in front until they pull out to come round (a roughly 40% saving).

The second rider also has the option of jumping themselves if they choose at any time, attempting to catch the other rider by surprise with a rapid sprint and opening a gap for the win.

If you're the second rider you could do a feint, show a wheel alongside as though you're about to sprint, without committing, and see if the lead rider falls for it.

In this race what appears to have happened was that Marco Fontana came round the corner in the lead, with Nino Schurter behind, saw the distant finish line ahead and thought "I'd better sprint now as Nino is right behind. He will pass me if I hesitate." As a result he started sprinting those few seconds too early.

On different types of finishes, a series of tight bends say, then the rider in front into the bends may have the advantage. A lot of it depends on the finish route. It's always worth knowing what it is like beforehand if possible.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

NordieBoy said:


> Make sure you watch Eddie Masters vids.
> Spirit of Enduro and Gets Fat are 2 brilliant ones.


The get fat one is classic. Really good.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

kevbikemad said:


> Pretty sure I'm gonna do a mockumentry series like Emily's "Ambitions" & Nino's "Hunt for Glory".
> 
> Can't decide on a title though, either "Regressions" or "Hunt for Mediocrity" - watch for it nowhere.


The recent Aaron Gwin video "downtime" has a longish gym section in too. It seems to be the in thing at the moment:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/aaron-gwin-downtime-video-2016.html

.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

XC has become more than just pedaling hard and being really fast on the bike...

I've been a surfer all my life, and now, pro surfers, train more out of the water than ever!


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Somebody show Fontana this video ASAP: Video: Do Aerodynamics Really Matter in Mountain Biking? | Singletracks Mountain Bike News

To me, wearing baggies at the WC level is just saying, "I know I can't win so I'm just going to dress differently and hopefully some dudes will like it".


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## m3bas (Dec 24, 2011)

I'm really not sure the baggies make that much difference, that jersey though...
I have some Yeti enduro "baggies" which are a really slim fit that i'm seriously considering racing in- yes to stand out a tiny bit maybe but also to save my expensive bib shorts from tears and holes from catching sticks/ crashing, etc.

As for leading out the sprint its less of an issue in MTB i think as the ultimate speed and hence draft effect is less than on the road, don't forget if you're coming from 2nd wheel you also have to sprint more than one bike length quicker to win.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Yeah, again with the flappy shirt. I realize that this it's the mtb magazine look, but it doesn't reflect xc baggy style all. Plus there aren't any 2 minute 40 mph downhill sections, or even enduro sections, in any WC XC.

But I kind of agree that showing up in baggies when the competition is wearing skinsuits is handicapping yourself.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

From an interview in Bike Hub - Classifieds, Cycling News, Gear Reviews, Forums, Race Calendar

_*Riding with baggies. What is the story behind this?*

It is simply how I ride. I started one day talking to my team manager at a World Cup race and I asked whether he would mind if I wore my baggies. I rocked up at the start line and people we staring at me with two minute to go wondering when I was going to remove my baggie shorts.

Attached Image: Manuel Fumic Interview 2016-3.jpg The image of a sport has a lot to do with the clothing. Just look at surfing, who's surfing in Europe? It is not the masses but everyone thinks it is such a cool sport. The same should be applied to mountain biking.

I don't see why people put themselves into bib shorts when they don't even have the shape for it. You can see that some people don't feel comfortable and after the ride they go have coffee or a beer. It is not like they are professional racers fighting for position at the front of the World Cup races. I have had people come up to me and say that I have made mountain biking fun again in their eyes.

My own wife is a good example. I give her the best cycling clothing and she refuses to go out with me. She puts her running clothes back on before coming out because that is what she feels comfortable in._

Interview: Manuel Fumic

................................................................

And yes, last year at Windham the baggies slowed Fumic down in the higher speed sections like the rock-garden or other descent. But not as much as the other guys, as he passed them all, even Nino.









Can we just skip this, baggies will not make the difference between a win or a second place. It is just so crazy to even think of it.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Let me guess: you think there is no difference between an 80s steel road bike and a Madone 9.9 on deep aero wheels?

Or no difference in rolling resistance with a Minion DHF and a Thunder Burt?



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## danielsilva (Aug 13, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> Let me guess: you think there is no difference between an 80s steel road bike and a Madone 9.9 on deep aero wheels?
> 
> Or no difference in rolling resistance with a Minion DHF and a Thunder Burt?
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Let me guess: you think that the difference between first and second place is because Nino shaved his legs and Fontana didn't ?

This is 650b vs 29 vs 26, 1x vs 2x, HT vs FS, and so on all again. Argumentum ad nauseam.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Just so we're clear, you are actually arguing that there are no quantifiable differences in bikes or equipment, and it comes down to nothing more than the rider?

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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> Let me guess: you think there is no difference between an 80s steel road bike and a Madone 9.9 on deep aero wheels?
> 
> Or no difference in rolling resistance with a Minion DHF and a Thunder Burt?


Of course Fontana, Fumic, Cannondale and all their sponsors give up top podium spots for the wish to play cool with baggies.

Clock your time around a real WC track with and without XC-baggies and compere.

For XCM with long and fast open road section, for sure. For real XCO on WC-tracks, dont think so.

But OK, I will be the next guy on this sub-forum stop trying to argue with you. It's just not possible.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

plupp said:


> Of course Fontana, Fumic, Cannondale and all their sponsors give up top podium spots for the wish to play cool with baggies.
> 
> Clock your time around a real WC track with and without XC-baggies and compere.
> 
> ...


I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong. I've done it many times.

While I agree that the difference between baggies + bibs + loose jersey vs. skinsuit is quite small, it IS a difference.

Provide some reasoning other than ,"I think this idea is ridiculous", and let's have a reasonable conversation.

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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

plupp said:


> Of course Fontana, Fumic, Cannondale and all their sponsors give up top podium spots for the wish to play cool with baggies.
> 
> Clock your time around a real WC track with and without XC-baggies and compere.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, but people like you are the ones impossible to argue with.

Other posters have already shown/explained having less aerodynamic drag is faster whether you are going at 1mph or 30mhp. Sure, at slower speeds the increase speed % is low, but still an increase. Does it really make a difference between a 1st or 2nd place? Quite possibly.

WC riders are at the absolute top level of the statistical distribution of cyclists, .01% makes a difference. While smart people grab all the pennies they can, Fontana is thinking he would never make a dollar from picking them up. However, guess what, turns out science has proved small improvements do add up and eventually make up a dollar.

If you want to have a good argument by all means try to disprove with facts what other people with reason are telling you, but please avoid your anecdotal experiences as hard facts. People here are more than willing to throw up a good argument for science sake.

Final note: Fontana of course isn't stupid and he is only wearing baggies because he feels better on them. That's why he asked for permission first, he knows that's a disadvantage. His team supports him for whatever reason and that's a whole other can of worms.


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## sandyf (Sep 3, 2012)

Ok this thread has been seriously hijacked by the whole baggies thing. Let's all just wear what we want and let others do the same.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

The only reason I started this "baggy drawers" thing was because I get tired of seeing Nino and Julien win everything. It would be nice if Fontana would take every marginal gain he could get and give them a little competition. But alas that's not his style, for whatever reason. I'm hoping Mathieu van der Poel can give the top two a little competition this year to make it interesting.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Two kids I think have the talent to take on the big guys...Simon Andreassen and Sam Gaze...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Ok...who wants the Power Ball numbers? 

Wow...even though some might consider it a not so strong field today, Simon kicked some ass today...for a 19yr old kid, he is fast as [email protected]*ck!!!


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## sandyf (Sep 3, 2012)

Not so strong?! He beat Gagné by 25 sec!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Sense my tone...

I think that kid is a serious threat...maybe not now, but he will be...also include Sam Gaze...too bad Egan Bernal from Colombia went the roadie way...he also is very fast for his age...


Consider this...who does the Bid Red S Machine have under contract beyond 2016? A bunch of kids 23 or under...(from what I have read...but I could be wrong...)


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## sandyf (Sep 3, 2012)

Kid must have some incredible genetics. Beat me by 14 minutes!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

That kid has won the past two Junior World Champs...

Not that I am a groupie, but some could argue he has skills, genetics and talent...


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## sandyf (Sep 3, 2012)

Yeah of course, I just meant that on top of the training, etc, he probably has something else going for him. Someone doing as well as he is at his age is pretty remarkable.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Kudos for you also...I wish I could be only 14min of the pace with WC talent in a race!!!


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

carlostruco said:


> Two kids I think have the talent to take on the big guys...Simon Andreassen and Sam Gaze...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well played! I watched him win the HC race today and you called it. I shot a ton of video and pictures. Simon and Raphael were close at times, but in the end it was all Simon. Let me know if you want to see my go-pro edit.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I took a few pics of the race today. Dudes were covered in mud. Hard to tell who's who. They were using their water bottles to rinse off the cassette and chainring.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Ok...who wants the Power Ball numbers?
> 
> Wow...even though some might consider it a not so strong field today, Simon kicked some ass today...for a 19yr old kid, he is fast as [email protected]*ck!!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What race was this?
Results anywhere?


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## sandyf (Sep 3, 2012)

Bonelli park US Cup. Results:
http://georesults.racemine.com/Team-Big-Bear/events/2016/KendaCup-4-Day1/results

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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Anyone know which Specialized tires Simon was using in this mud? I'd guess the Fast Trak but maybe the Ground Control?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

There is a pic on Twitter of the bike he used...from the looks, Fast Trak...


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

Here is a quick video I shot as I hiked around the race. I got a great shot on the last lap as Raphael almost got by Simon on a really tough mud climb. The rock garden section cost me a broken wrist and other injuries this past Wednesday as I was training for my race there scheduled for today. Hope you enjoy it. I also posted to my YouTube so try both links.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?res...283&authkey=!APn1skVlvs-Bwms&ithint=video,mp4


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

Stonerider said:


> Anyone know which Specialized tires Simon was using in this mud? I'd guess the Fast Trak but maybe the Ground Control?


 It looked to me like the Stumpjumper gang were all on FT 2.2, probably SW casing.


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## MTBKNG (Dec 30, 2015)

trmn8er said:


> It looked to me like the Stumpjumper gang were all on FT 2.2, probably SW casing.


I have not watched the raced yet, but when you say "Stumpjumper Gang" I assume you are meaning the Specialized riders where on the Stumpjumper and not the Epic?


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

MTBKNG said:


> I have not watched the raced yet, but when you say "Stumpjumper Gang" I assume you are meaning the Specialized riders where on the Stumpjumper and not the Epic?


That would be correct. Although there were plenty of Epics in the field, the Winner as well as Howard Grotts were both on Stumpjumper S-Works Hard-Tails.


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## MTBKNG (Dec 30, 2015)

Thanks, looking forward to watching the taped race later today.


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

MTBKNG said:


> Thanks, looking forward to watching the taped race later today.


Where are you watching it?


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## MTBKNG (Dec 30, 2015)

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, I am not near my TV, but I believe I saw on the Red Bull TV upcoming events that they have this weekends races on later today,


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

trmn8er;12573776 The rock garden section cost me a broken wrist and other injuries this past Wednesday as I was training for my race there scheduled for today.[/QUOTE said:


> Ouch! That's not good.
> 
> I hope you heal up soon.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

And in the big PRO UCI event this weekend Absalon level the score against Nino with a solid win. Maxim Marotte third.

Neff again killed it with a solo ride with Rissveds (first year in Elite and on FS-Scott Contessa) second. Maja W third after a really slow start. Think the Women race will most fun to watch this year, a lot of racing and battles will happen. More fun to follow than Absalon vs Nino. 

Emil Linde from Sweden took the short track win during Saturday with a win over Bauer.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Heres a highlight of the last us cup


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

plupp said:


> And in the big PRO UCI event this weekend Absalon level the score against Nino with a solid win. Maxim Marotte third.


It should be added that Nino was slightly sick.


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## MTBKNG (Dec 30, 2015)

machine4321 said:


> Heres a highlight of the last us cup


Thanks for the video...Looks like Fox had the new 32 Step Cast Orange Fork mounted on a lot of the bikes...


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

plupp said:


> And in the big PRO UCI event this weekend Absalon level the score against Nino with a solid win. Maxim Marotte third.
> 
> Neff again killed it with a solo ride with Rissveds (first year in Elite and on FS-Scott Contessa) second. Maja W third after a really slow start. Think the Women race will most fun to watch this year, a lot of racing and battles will happen. More fun to follow than Absalon vs Nino.
> 
> Emil Linde from Sweden took the short track win during Saturday with a win over Bauer.


and pics from the event. Nino with style moves despite having a sore throat.

Galerie: Mit dem 29er unterwegs | Seite 610 | MTB-News.de


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Thanks for that link. Looks like another dropper post sighting...


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Awesome pics!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I liked the shots from the pits...


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

All the 3rox riders had them.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Hey all,

Next week I'm gonna drop a cool vid about nothing at all...check it out though...it might be epic!!!

Really?!!?!?!!?!?!? Carlos Coloma and Florian Vogel just joined the video frenzy!!! I am not a hater...in the beginning I liked them, but I would prefer some originality...

But please, please, no reality show...ok?!?!?

BTW, even though we are two weeks away from the first WC, who do you got on the podium? There are still some HC races this weekend...

In no order in particular...

Womens:
Blonde Bombshell
Maja
Annika
Pendrel

Mens:
The Two Usual suspects
Fontana
Marrote
Another frenchman...take your pic...

I am more interested in the U23 Mens...those kids are getting stupid faster each day that passes by!!!



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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Peter Sagan is doing a couple of MTB races:

Sagan to race in mountain bike events before heading to the Tour of California | Cyclingnews.com


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Also, turns out those Bontrager wheels are not DT Swiss re-badges.

First Look: Bontrager Line Dropper Post | BIKE Magazine


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Peter Sagan is doing a couple of MTB races:
> 
> Sagan to race in mountain bike events before heading to the Tour of California | Cyclingnews.com


Hail Sagan!


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

Question 1: Is Van der Poel eligible and racing the Elite Pro's for sure? I've heard he has to ride U23 and I am hoping he can ride elites.

Question 2: Will question 1 matter if he does ride elites? I hope so on that account as well. Mix things up a bit!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

You can apply for an exemption to race up. 

Anton Cooper and Sam Gaze are 21 and 20, respectively, but are racing in the Elite ranks full time this year.


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

So he is racing then for sure? He did apply and it was approved?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

khardrunner14 said:


> So he is racing then for sure? He did apply and it was approved?


I have to imagine that if he's taking the trouble to fly to Australia for the first WC, yes, he did, and it was approved.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

ewarnerusa said:


> Hail Sagan!
> 
> View attachment 1064080


For anyone wondering that picture is from 2008 when Peter Sagan was junior MTB World Champion.

From wikipedia:

_"Peter Sagan started to ride bikes at the age of nine when he joined Cyklistický spolok Žilina, a small local club in his home town. Throughout his junior years Sagan rode both mountain bikes and road bikes, and was well known for his unconventional style of riding in tennis shoes and T-shirts and drinking just pure water.

Sagan drew a significant amount of attention when he appeared at the Slovak Cup with a bicycle borrowed from his sister. Sagan had mistakenly sold his own and had not received a spare from the Velosprint sponsor in time. He won the race despite riding a supermarket bike with poor brakes and limited gearing."_

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Sagan#Early_life_and_amateur_career

.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Yup. And the wheelie finish pic I posted was him winning that jersey. He was also a junior silver medalist that year in cyclocross. This guy has solid roots in off road cycling, I'm excited to see how his little experiment of returning to his roots goes.
I never knew he was red bull sponsored, based on his helmet. Come to think of it, I've never seen a red bull sponsored World Tour rider. Their team sponsor obligations must not allow it since red bull seems to only sponsor individuals. I'm thinking like Fontana, Batty, Andreassen, Tim Johnson, even Lindsey Vonn. Their sponsored athletes seem to stick with them for life, too.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

A couple of years ago, he did a promo for the new Cannondale FSi with Fontanna. The video is in Youtube...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Peter Sagan stats:

http://www.procyclingstats.com/articles/peter-sagan-compared-to-other-top-riders-at-same-age

.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Soo excited to see him race mtb!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> You can apply for an exemption to race up.
> 
> Anton Cooper and Sam Gaze are 21 and 20, respectively, but are racing in the Elite ranks full time this year.


My understanding of the rules is that to race in the Elite category as a U23 you have to been ranked in the top 5 overall on the U23 circuit the previous year.


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

So then MVdP can't race elites? Then how could he do Rio since that is his ultimate goal? I mean, I realize this literally effects me in no way, but I am just curious since I really would love to see how a CX guy with his skills and engine can do against the top MTBers.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

One thing is accumulating points for your country and Olympics selection, and another is actually being picked by your country to race...




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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

U23s can compete at the Olympics if their country selects them. The challenge is selecting a U23 when they don't compete against the elites. 

Who is faster the guy who wins U23 or the guy who places 10th in elite?


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## JoelGuelph (May 20, 2010)

khardrunner14 said:


> So then MVdP can't race elites? Then how could he do Rio since that is his ultimate goal? I mean, I realize this literally effects me in no way, but I am just curious since I really would love to see how a CX guy with his skills and engine can do against the top MTBers.


Look up Sven Nys' mtb results. Not exactly spectacular considering he is a CX legend!

http://mtbcrosscountry.com/riders/sven-nys/results/

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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

So the Short Track at Sea Otter today was interesting...Kabush took the win...


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

LMN said:


> U23s can compete at the Olympics if their country selects them. The challenge is selecting a U23 when they don't compete against the elites.
> 
> Who is faster the guy who wins U23 or the guy who places 10th in elite?


This is what I our selectors will be grappling with between Sam and Anton (Le Duke, Sam is confirmed racing U23 ). Sam won nationals, Anton won Oce's a week later. Anton has strong history of performing at the majors and is reigning U23 world champ, Sam has a tendency to be patchy but really delivers when he is 'on'.

They really wanted to send Anton to London but he was something like a month too young and the IOC declined an exemption. Both boys are beyond fired up to get there, and either way we'll have a strong representative on the start line.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

XCKiwi said:


> This is what I our selectors will be grappling with between Sam and Anton (Le Duke, Sam is confirmed racing U23 ). Sam won nationals, Anton won Oce's a week later. Anton has strong history of performing at the majors and is reigning U23 world champ, Sam has a tendency to be patchy but really delivers when he is 'on'.
> 
> They really wanted to send Anton to London but he was something like a month too young and the IOC declined an exemption. Both boys are beyond fired up to get there, and either way we'll have a strong representative on the start line.


You guys have only one spot?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> You guys have only one spot?


Not a lot of UCI point in the u23 ranks and not a lot of UCI races in New Zealand. To get two spots New Zealand would three exceptionally good senior riders.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Good point...


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

carlostruco said:


> You guys have only one spot?


Yep, just one for our guys. As LMN said, points for U23 are low, and I think our last UCI race that wasn't national champs or Oce's (we just alternate years with Aus) was 2008. It costs a lot more to pay for testing down here and things have gone from pretty healthy to ok, to bad, to worse over the years since then. A few buttons finally got pressed pretty hard this season just gone though (resulting in my partner, who races, and I - I raced years ago - trying to work with our national body to turn things around.

Any serious XC racers did Aus national rounds this year instead of our own - combination of late confirmation and lack depth of field. Pretty traffic for the sport!

Our women's Olympic spot relies on Aus securing theirs through points so the Continental spot defaults to us because we didn't even have three women racing consistently the last couple of years. I know every federation has it's flaws but it has been pretty interesting watching the Aussies realize how good they have it this season! Hopefully we'll be able to turn things around.

But right now, all efforts are firmly on Cairns next weekend - we're waiting to board our last flight right now!


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

I waved at Nino Schurter on my way back from the supermarket yesterday 

I assume it's him because the guy was wearing a rainbow jersey.

PS. I live 5 minutes from the World Cup venue


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

It will be interesting to see who is at WC #1. I have heard on the women's side at least a lot of big names are sitting this one out.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

World Cup races that are dozens of hours of travel time away definitely are more sparsely attended, which kinda sucks for race fans in Australia and South Africa who want a chance to see their faves race. Pietermaritzburg, Canberra and Cairns were a long haul, but this year those UCI points might be more important for the riders who are in need of doing well in the first 3 races that count for Olympic selection. 

In Olympic years even the North American races have usually had reduced attendance by the European riders as the Olympic selection had already been done.


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

Yeah, always expect lower numbers right through the ranks all the way down here. It looks like there will be a few more hitters than 2014, and there is the boost from Olympic qualification/selection. 

The shop we were in today hosts the BH team when they're in town and said Julie Bresset is coming, saw Alexandra Engen on our way back from our ride (stoked to see them both back!) and Annika Langvad is staying in the apartment 2 doors down from ours. I think I heard someone say Sabine is around, and I'm sure you've all seen the beach pic from Emily.

Heaps of riders are due in town tomorrow. The place we're staying fills up a little bit more each day. Waiting for the entry list to go up!


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

XCKiwi said:


> Yeah, always expect lower numbers right through the ranks all the way down here. It looks like there will be a few more hitters than 2014, and there is the boost from Olympic qualification/selection.
> 
> The shop we were in today hosts the BH team when they're in town and said Julie Bresset is coming, saw Alexandra Engen on our way back from our ride (stoked to see them both back!) and Annika Langvad is staying in the apartment 2 doors down from ours. I think I heard someone say Sabine is around, and I'm sure you've all seen the beach pic from Emily.
> 
> Heaps of riders are due in town tomorrow. The place we're staying fills up a little bit more each day. Waiting for the entry list to go up!


Where are you staying mate?


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

XCKiwi said:


> The shop we were in today hosts the BH team when they're in town and said Julie Bresset is coming, saw Alexandra Engen on our way back from our ride (stoked to see them both back!) and Annika Langvad is staying in the apartment 2 doors down from ours. I think I heard someone say Sabine is around, and I'm sure you've all seen the beach pic from Emily.


Add in Rissveds and you have a strong field anyway. Any rumors of Neff? She was still in Swiss this weekend for racing in Swiss Cup, will she be going to Cairns? After being their a couple of times I think you really should go there at least one week before, both jetlag and the heat/humidity will have a big impact of performance.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Sea Otter short track with power.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

LMN said:


> Sea Otter short track with power.


I know that videos don't often give a true perspective of a course, but that sure looks like a 'cross course


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## Walt Disney's Frozen Head (Jan 9, 2008)

Nice! thanks


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

mudge said:


> I know that videos don't often give a true perspective of a course, but that sure looks like a 'cross course


I think you are insulting cross by calling that a cross course. 

Not the most interesting or technically demanding course to say the least. But it did produce some good racing.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Wasn't that the short track? I don't know much but I think the Short Track courses are like XCE...super fast and not technically challenging... 


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## moab63 (Dec 29, 2003)

*Thats the short track*



mudge said:


> I know that videos don't often give a true perspective of a course, but that sure looks like a 'cross course


 Is also part of the cyclocross course, almost all of it. Also no crowds is Friday.:thumbsup:

I have some pro course videos, too large to upload here.


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

plupp said:


> Any rumors of Neff? She was still in Swiss this weekend for racing in Swiss Cup, will she be going to Cairns?


 She said she rather stays in Switzerland to train and race. She knows from 2014 that riding in Cairns represents 3 weeks where she loses her training rhythm.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

Neff, yesterday. Swiss Bike Cup.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

Gossip time: here in Europe it is speculated that Sagan's decision to ride two XCO races in the next few weeks (probably Graz/Austria and Teplice/CZ) may be linked to the Olympics. The road race is on 6. Aug, whereas XCO is on 21. Aug. It is speculated that he wants to ride both. Slovakia has one ticket secure, two within reach.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

That would be interesting...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

quax said:


> Gossip time: here in Europe it is speculated that Sagan's decision to ride two XCO races in the next few weeks (probably Graz/Austria and Teplice/CZ) may be linked to the Olympics. The road race is on 6. Aug, whereas XCO is on 21. Aug. It is speculated that he wants to ride both. Slovakia has one ticket secure, two within reach.


That is the gossip that I have been hearing too.

Good to see that on the mens side riders are getting into multi-displine racing too.


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## JoelGuelph (May 20, 2010)

Is it even gossip? It is what I immediately assumed. Somehow I doubt Sagan and Tinkov would've just started racing XCO if it wasn't an Olympic year, just like MVdP.

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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

So both good and bad news, for stars to skip out on long travel WC will create a problem for the sport, if we want it to grow and not just be a battle between stars from Europe. But I understand that many of them are aiming for Rio.

I really think we need to have one in Aussie/NZ but why not in easier place to travel to and race in? Sydney have direct flights from most of the big hubs in the world and easier climate and not to off. I also would like to see one in US, but where? The tracks from US-Cup don't really look WC-ready. (At least the one I have looked at). 

And why not a race in Asia to promote the sport even more. 

Therefore it could be good if Sagan are doing the XCO in Rio, a gold on road and a 20th place off-road to show people the differences of the sports?


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## Ben Edwards (Mar 13, 2015)

The sport will always be dominated by European stars until other countries beef up their development programs. Also, if USAC would stop being so damn political and bring riders to big events that have actually earned those spots. For instance, last year the #1 ranked marathon racer was not invited onto the worlds team. 

There aren't enough technical XC trails in Asia. Only gravel roads and double track or back country. My coworker is from China and this is what he says.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

plupp said:


> So both good and bad news, for stars to skip out on long travel WC will create a problem for the sport, if we want it to grow and not just be a battle between stars from Europe. But I understand that many of them are aiming for Rio.
> 
> I really think we need to have one in Aussie/NZ but why not in easier place to travel to and race in? Sydney have direct flights from most of the big hubs in the world and easier climate and not to off. I also would like to see one in US, but where? The tracks from US-Cup don't really look WC-ready. (At least the one I have looked at).
> 
> ...


We have a WC at Windham, NY every other year or so.

If you take a look at the road race profile, you'll know that a gold on the road is not in the cards unless Sagan finds a way to lose 15lbs between now and then.

Looks like a course custom built for a guy like Nibali. A world class climber that can descend without peer.

Sagan on Rio Olympics: 'I don?t see a medal here for myself' - VeloNews.com

UCI confirm Rio 2016 Olympic Road Race and Time Trial courses - Cycling Weekly


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I wonder how Sagan would do against a guy like Nino in a XC race. We all know Nino's capabilities, and Sagan is just a powerful sick talent on the bike. From the videos we have seen, I don't think there is a ton of climbing in Rio...Sagan can ride that as if it was Flanders...

Will true power be a deciding factor in Rio? Because if we look back at London, the three medals went to guys that are not skinny climbers...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Ben Edwards said:


> The sport will always be dominated by European stars until other countries beef up their development programs. Also, if USAC would stop being so damn political and bring riders to big events that have actually earned those spots. For instance, last year the #1 ranked marathon racer was not invited onto the worlds team.
> 
> There aren't enough technical XC trails in Asia. Only gravel roads and double track or back country. My coworker is from China and this is what he says.


"The sport will always be dominated by European stars" and Canadians. Fixed it for you.

Hard to argue with our success in XC racing. Do a rough count I estimate around 40 WC XC wins by Canadians.

Alison Syder: 17 wins
Catharine Pendrel: 11 wins
Marie Premont: 7 wins
Chrissy Redden: 1
Roland Green: 3 *
Ryder Hesjedal: 1 **
Geoff Kabush: 1

* (Lots of rumors of EPO use)
** (confirmed EPO user and rumored to use a motor  )


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> I wonder how Sagan would do against a guy like Nino in a XC race. We all know Nino's capabilities, and Sagan is just a powerful sick talent on the bike. From the videos we have seen, I don't think there is a ton of climbing in Rio...Sagan can ride that as if it was Flanders...
> 
> Will true power be a deciding factor in Rio? Because if we look back at London, the three medals went to guys that are not skinny climbers...


There is a lot climbing in Rio, just not a lot of steep climbing, the climbs are all 5-8%. Very low grade as WC climbs go.

I think Sagan has the potential to do really well. He really isn't that big, if he loses 5lbs which I suspect he will, he should have enough watts/kg to compete. I suspect though his biggest challenge will be the different nature of the racing.

To be successful in Men's road you have to be fast after 5 hrs of riding, Endurance is everything. In mountain bike racing you have to be fast from the gun, Endurance isn't really a big factor.

Mountain bike racing is sort of reverse of road racing. You start with a sprint, ride near your maximum output for a couple minutes and then settle into best sustainable effort. Where as in road racing, at the end of the race, you ride at best sustainable effort, increase to maximum output and then sprint (grossly simplified).

Over the past 15 years there has been guys who have gone the other way: MTB -> Road. Typically they end up being GC racers; (Evans, Ryder, Peraud) . There has not been a lot of attempts to go for Road -> MTB though. The only one I know of is Miguel, who never raced any where near his pre-road speed (this can be explained by many factor though).


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I recall Roberto Heras made a bit of an attempt to ride pro MTB after he "stepped away" from road racing. Heras was a successful Spanish GC racer in the EPO-era 2000's and had his run-ins with those darn doping rules. I think he tried more for marathon/stage race MTB racing and didn't win anything noteworthy.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

LMN said:


> There is a lot climbing in Rio, just not a lot of steep climbing, the climbs are all 5-8%. Very low grade as WC climbs go.
> 
> I think Sagan has the potential to do really well. He really isn't that big, if he loses 5lbs which I suspect he will, he should have enough watts/kg to compete. I suspect though his biggest challenge will be the different nature of the racing.


Given Sagan's pedigree from his pre- road pro career (you know, like when he was the Jr. World XC Champion and second in the Jr. World CX championships in '08), I'd say he'll do extremely well in Rio, should he decide to give it a go. It wasn't that long ago when the big concern was whether he could transform from the demands of cyclocross and mtb racing to road racing.

He's got mad bike handling skills, and the idea that somehow he might not be able to train himself to handle a few minutes of very high intensity at the beginning of a race and then settle into a very high sustained effort is crazy.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Maybe he could just go for a 4hr ride at 300w before the start of the XC race? A nice long Vlaanderen-like warm up?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Those roadies...

Didn't Rob Warner once commented during a Red Bull cast that after certain race, Jaro went on a 3 hour training ride? Is he insane? 

Even though this is pure gossip as mentioned before, Sagan would be the only roadie which I would pay to see on a XC race...he can sustain long climbs, he can sprint, he can TT...guys like that are really fun to watch...

But on the Road vs. XC conversation, didn't PFP had success like Marianne Vos coming from the road? 

If I remember correctly JC Peraud had a decent 2012 season on the WC while riding a bunch of road and stage races...


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Those roadies...
> 
> Didn't Rob Warner once commented during a Red Bull cast that after certain race, Jaro went on a 3 hour training ride? Is he insane? ...


I that was the season he was training for marathon worlds, so he was making a long training day out of his WC XCO "warmup"!

I think PFP has been racing all disciplines simultaneously, plus she is still so young, that I don't think you could describe as coming from one discipline and going to another. She has just sort of done them all and has yet to specialize. And from what she says, she is reluctant to specialize. Although it seems like one must in order to maximize their potential.


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Those roadies...
> 
> Didn't Rob Warner once commented during a Red Bull cast that after certain race, Jaro went on a 3 hour training ride? Is he insane?
> 
> ...


not sure about Vos, but PFP grew up racing mtbs first.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Marianne Vos has won at least 1 Junior XCO World Cup, at Houffalize, I believe. Won several junior National Championships as well.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> Those roadies...
> 
> If I remember correctly JC Peraud had a decent 2012 season on the WC while riding a bunch of road and stage races...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Peraud is an interesting rider that, as far as I can tell, doesn't get a lot of recognition. He won an Olympic medal in XC mountain biking and also finished 2nd overall in the Tour de France. Pretty great.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

LMN said:


> There is a lot climbing in Rio, just not a lot of steep climbing, the climbs are all 5-8%. Very low grade as WC climbs go.
> 
> I think Sagan has the potential to do really well. He really isn't that big, if he loses 5lbs which I suspect he will, he should have enough watts/kg to compete. I suspect though his biggest challenge will be the different nature of the racing.


How many riders are allowed to start at the men's Olympic XC race?

The problem that non regulars at the World Cups tend to have is that they end up seeded way back on the starting grid, as they don't have any ranking points. In the World Cups it doesn't matter how potentially fast the riders at the back may be. When there's 100 riders in front on a narrow course there's almost no chance of making it through the traffic for a good result. It's very rare.

Is it going to be the same issue for someone like Peter Sagan at Rio too?


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

hambocairns said:


> Where are you staying mate?


Trinity Beach (seems almost everyone is!).


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

XCKiwi said:


> Trinity Beach (seems almost everyone is!).


I live on the main road in Trinity Beach


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The best thing about the Cairns XCO race is that it starts at an easy to manage time. The women's race starts at 6PM pacific time, amd the men's race starts at 9PM, for once I don't need to be awake at 2:30AM to watch the World Cup action.

UCI Mountain Bike World Cup | Red Bull TV

UCI Mountain Bike World Cup | Red Bull TV


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

Apparently Jolanda Neff, Gunn-Rita Dahle-Flesjaa, Maja Wloszczwoska, Irina Kalentieva and Pauline Ferrand Prevot are not riding in Cairns.


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

bananajoe said:


> Apparently Jolanda Neff, Gunn-Rita Dahle-Flesjaa, Maja Wloszczwoska, Irina Kalentieva and Pauline Ferrand Prevot are not riding in Cairns.


That's a lot of top names there. Their loss, weather is lovely


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

hambocairns said:


> That's a lot of top names there. Their loss, weather is lovely


Update: No it's not


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

mudge said:


> Given Sagan's pedigree from his pre- road pro career (you know, like when he was the Jr. World XC Champion and second in the Jr. World CX championships in '08), I'd say he'll do extremely well in Rio, should he decide to give it a go. It wasn't that long ago when the big concern was whether he could transform from the demands of cyclocross and mtb racing to road racing.
> 
> He's got mad bike handling skills, and the idea that somehow he might not be able to train himself to handle a few minutes of very high intensity at the beginning of a race and then settle into a very high sustained effort is crazy.


Actually it was a long time ago. If you are a racer eight years is a very long time. That is 2/3rds of a career.

The guy is amazing if any one can do it he can.


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## theextremist04 (Jul 15, 2008)

ewarnerusa said:


> I that was the season he was training for marathon worlds, so he was making a long training day out of his WC XCO "warmup"!
> 
> I think PFP has been racing all disciplines simultaneously, plus she is still so young, that I don't think you could describe as coming from one discipline and going to another. She has just sort of done them all and has yet to specialize. And from what she says, she is reluctant to specialize. Although it seems like one must in order to maximize their potential.


Maximize her potential? Is rainbow jersey in all three categories at the same time not enough?


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Yes, she's a goddess that held three elite WC titles simultaneously. But injuries and undefended titles would suggest that this is an unsustainable level.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ewarnerusa said:


> Yes, she's a goddess that held three elite WC titles simultaneously. But injuries and undefended titles would suggest that this is an unsustainable level.


Not many can hold a high level of form year after year. If you follow women's racing you will see many girls have burned very bright and then struggled for the rest of their career.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Ah. That reminds me. Anyone heard how Julie Bresset is getting on these days?


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

There are some nice pictures from the Sea Otter 2016 short track race here: 

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/short-track-xc-sea-otter-classic-2016.html

Nino: The Hunt For Glory Video 10:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/n1no-the-hunt-for-glory-chapter-10-riding-with-brendan.html

.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Ah. That reminds me. Anyone heard how Julie Bresset is getting on these days?


So, so. This was probably her best race of the season. But she still doesn't look anything like the rider of 11, 12, 13 season.

13 Mar 2016, Banyoles, Spain
Copa catalana internacional, Copa catalana internacional
Number of participants: 47
Complete results

Rider	Position	Time	Country <-- Filter Is Active &#8230;
Michiels Githa	1	01:25:22	Belgium
Enaux Sabrina	2	01:25:46	France
Bresset Julie	3	01:26:13	France
Zur Monika	4	01:27:38	Poland
Moschetti Margot	5	01:28:17	France
Marcouyre Helene	6	01:28:45	France
Clauzel Perrine	7	01:28:58	France
Ferrand Prevot Pauline	8	01:29:18	France


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Hey LMN,

How do you see the podium for the Elite Women due some big names deciding to skip the race?

From what I've seen in social media, on the Men's side, only Jaro is not there...


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

It's hot and sunny today! I'm surprised there's not more selling of products at special prices. 

Scored a pack of Krush cleaning (see Flow MTB for a great review) but other than that, it's top end bikes at retail and Maxxis selling retail


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

That's Atherton and Hannah through. These tracks are packed!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> Hey LMN,
> 
> How do you see the podium for the Elite Women due some big names deciding to skip the race?
> 
> ...


Podium....

That is a tough one, in the spring races nobody has stood as having spectacularly good form.

Europeans:
Jenny Rissveds I think has the best form of the Europeans there. But her results have been hit and miss this spring. But no one else has stood out as having great form. (I even put Joland in that category BTW).

But then there is no North American who has shown wicked form (Except Larrissa Coners, who isn't there and needs some technical work before she does WCs).
-Catharine actually has pretty good form but a broken thumb has effect her climbing speed a bit and her descending speed a lot. Not sure she is technically sharp enough to win.
-Both Nash and Gould are going well but they are starting a long ways back in the field.
-Even though her form hasn't looked awesome this spring I think the favorite is Batty. She is riding technically really well, and went there a week early and is full acclimatized.

Dark horse: Bec Henderson. Locals win races. Don't be surprised to see her at the point end of the field.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Elizabeth Osl had that kind of arrival on the scene, young and very fast, some podiums, and then back into the top 20-30.



LMN said:


> So, so. This was probably her best race of the season. But she still doesn't look anything like the rider of 11, 12, 13 season.


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

LMN said:


> Podium....
> 
> That is a tough one, in the spring races nobody has stood as having spectacularly good form.
> 
> ...


I think Catharine got bitten by a croc  The thumb must be driving her nuts. I cut my finger (through the nerve) the same week and it's still giving me grief.

What about Eva? Winner in 2014. Katerina looks crazy fast on the technical sections, Georgia too but I agree those two are coming from a way back on the grid - but Katerina did well from about 35th at MSA last year. Tough to win from their starts, but podiums are a definite possibility. I agree re Batty - 2nd in 2014 and she's right on the verge of her first world cup win and I can imagine her having great confidence here.

I'm interested to see where the Spesh girls finish up. Bresset looks good out there but I just don't know about world cup form. Also super excited to see how Engen goes.


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

hambocairns said:


> It's hot and sunny today! I'm surprised there's not more selling of products at special prices.
> 
> Scored a pack of Krush cleaning (see Flow MTB for a great review) but other than that, it's top end bikes at retail and Maxxis selling retail


Agreed! We needed some sealant this morning and were shocked that there aren't any retailers out there. Maybe it's too pricey to get a spot... The shop down the road was great though.


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

XCKiwi said:


> Agreed! We needed some sealant this morning and were shocked that there aren't any retailers out there. Maybe it's too pricey to get a spot... The shop down the road was great though.


Spoke to the rep from Intense and he said that they're concerned with the weather messing up their bikes so they didn't bring anything. Next year's World Champs will bring more retail and promotional opportunity.

I see the whole thing as a missed opportunity. Scott, Norco, BMC and GT were the only brands showing off their bikes and Scott were the only company doing any kind of contest. Not one had freebie stickers or t-shirts. I think that's poor marketing right there. Maxxis had tyres at full retail and only wanted to push full EXO/TR onto me even though I said I'm not tubeless and don't have a lot of cash. Luckily I'd already spent my cash at Pushys.

Big shout out to the husband and wife team at Krush. I bought a UCI pack of bike cleaner (Flow's First Bite: KRUSH Premium Bike Wash and After Wash Spray - Flow Mountain Bike) and got a free t-shirt too. Had a gleaming 12-month old dually on display that had just been ridden, and cleaned with Krush, looked lovely. Go buy some!


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

LMN said:


> Podium....
> 
> That is a tough one, in the spring races nobody has stood as having spectacularly good form.
> 
> ...


Think Rissveds can end up anywhere in the field. First start in Elite and struggle with sickness during pre-season. Some maggot on a training camp caused illness for a long time, add in stomach problem on the next one and also a hard crash on a velodrome. Think the form up is up, but she mention struggling with the different layup of pace in Elite. More fullgas and keep it higher for the race, in Junior it was more go fullgas and then she could recover for a few laps.

But will be interesting, she tested with the highest VO2 for Women in Sweden this year, 75 in our most stable facility that compere to most other testing facilities undershoot values. So the engine is there, but still young, technical skilled but not like Neff that can outride others in the technical stuff and save a lot of energy.

I agree about Batty, if there is one WC-race she could go out and win with a perfect race, this is the one.

Will also be interesting to see if Langvald can go for it.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Cool video from the CFR guys.




__ https://www.facebook.com/cannondalefactoryracing/posts/1114897608552775



"Maybe the snake in your pants."


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Is that Fontana without baggies?

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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

carlostruco said:


> Is that Fontana without baggies?


Look like the slim cut baggies they normally wear to me...


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## MHCBH (Jan 9, 2009)

The answer may be buried in the 15 pages on this forum, but are there any online viewing options to watch the race live? Maybe steephilltv?


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

redbull tv is the option for free live...


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

This site is great, with schedules, results and links: MTBCrossCountry


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Another picture of the 2017 Scalpel:


__
http://instagr.am/p/BEi9nVcr5cQ/


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

RS VR6 said:


> Cool video from the CFR guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I laughed when I hear that too!


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

I see that the UCI website finally has links to the individual race live video now as well

LIVE


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

Does anyone know why redbull no longer has last year's races available?


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Not sure....but it ruined my winter...


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## JoelGuelph (May 20, 2010)

alphajaguars said:


> Does anyone know why redbull no longer has last year's races available?


They took them all down about a week after worlds, at least for me in Canada

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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> Another picture of the 2017 Scalpel:
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BEi9nVcr5cQ/


Is that for XXC?

I have a BMC Fourstroke, and the only thing I don't like about it is the inability to carrie two cages. That is the only reason I always keep me eye on Epics and now, on the new Scalpel...

Not a hard tail guy though...but I like the FS-i...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

machine4321 said:


> Not sure....but it ruined my winter...


Mine too...


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## UncleMuscles (Mar 20, 2011)

Forgive me if this was covered earlier in the thread, but it appears that Daniel McConnell is running a dropper post on his Pro Caliber, found on his Instagram. Interested to see how it impacts his race and who else will be running them...


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Is that for XXC?
> 
> I have a BMC Fourstroke, and the only thing I don't like about it is the inability to carrie two cages. That is the only reason I always keep me eye on Epics and now, on the new Scalpel...
> 
> Not a hard tail guy though...but I like the FS-i...


I run a second bottle cage on my seat post and use a Motherlode strap to carry my tools low in my front triangle.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

UncleMuscles said:


> Forgive me if this was covered earlier in the thread, but it appears that Daniel McConnell is running a dropper post on his Pro Caliber, found on his Instagram. Interested to see how it impacts his race and who else will be running them...


Looks like Absalon is running a dropper this year aswell

Julien Absalon bike BMC Fourstroke 01 with Shimano Di2 and dropper post 2016 - BikeRadar


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

It must be an Olympic year, Ren Chengyuan is back in a World Cup race. Julie Bresset is starting from 40th.

Tissot Live Timing

U23 women will be starting 2 minutes after Elite women

UCI Mountain Bike World Cup | Red Bull TV


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

rockyuphill said:


> It must be an Olympic year, Ren Chengyuan is back in a World Cup race. Julie Bresset is starting from 40th.
> 
> Tissot Live Timing
> 
> ...


Live timing?!?! Wow, I had no idea they had that. Awesome, thanks.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Is MvdP racing the Elites or U23's?


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## evenflo (Apr 23, 2013)

Why is RBTV showing last nights DH instead of the Women's XCO that it says is live..........anyone know?


Nevermind, PB's link is wonky


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The wind sure came up, I wonder if that is a harbinger of a rain storm, that would sure shake things up.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Bec Henderson is making a splash in her home(ish) race. I'm really impressed by Sabine Spitz at 44 years old.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

No drafting allowed!!! 

If it rains, those downhills are gonna get very sketchy!!!


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Interesting that two riders we've mentioned as doing well early in their career and then fading are just outside of the top 10. Bresset is 10th and Osl is 11th. They both started quite far down the group. That changed fast, on Interlap 4 Osl is 13th and Bresset is 15th.

Although with many of the top tier riders sitting this out, these results are not necessarily representative


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Anyone else having trouble with the stream? 

It seems to cut off every now and then.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Amazing how women top finishers are not even breaking a sweat. 

Langvad didn't even seem to be breathing hard at the end. Henderson did look pretty beat up though.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The RedBull stream was OK, but the Tissot live timing reloaded the page every minute or two, sometimes before you could even scroll to look for someone.

It is interesting that the podium has been trimmed back to 3 medal positions only, wasn't it an Australian World Cup or World Champs where the 4th and 5th place podium positions were born?


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Tough go for Rissveds. She really turnes it on though.

Did Catherine hurt herself on that drop? I was wondering if that did her hand in?


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Awesome ride by Spitz! 

What were those rad wheels?

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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

It looked like the BMC team had an issue with the Di2 shifting with Absalon's team mate, that was a painfully long pitstop, and it looks like a Di2 rear derailleur was a hinderance for Absalon's rear wheel swap, that was a time consuming wrestling match.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

machine4321 said:


> Tough go for Rissveds. She really turnes it on though.
> 
> Did Catherine hurt herself on that drop? I was wondering if that did her hand in?


No. Just had to grab a whole fist full of brake after she bounced.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Mens race still on but my take so far.

Droppers: 
Dan is getting dropped on the descents and Absalon look very normal on the descents. Jury is still out if they have a place in XC racing.

Van Der Poel: Cross skills are different then MTB skills. He is not nearly as smooth as the mountain bike specialist. But man can he ever start.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Absalon is doing quite the race despite his rear flat. Hes back in top 10.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

TDLover said:


> Absalon is doing quite the race despite his rear flat. Hes back on top 10.


Yeah that is an impressive ride.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

I gotta say those orange forks don't go that well with all the bikes or clothing. A lot of them look rainbowish from all the color mix. 

Absalon riding FS + dropper and still is the fastest climbing, just shows how way ahead of the rest he is, while Nino seems to be just waiting for the final attack.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

LMN said:


> Mens race still on but my take so far.
> 
> Droppers:
> Dan is getting dropped on the descents and Absalon look very normal on the descents. Jury is still out if they have a place in XC racing.
> ...


I am have to change my mind on Absalon. He is descending super well.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Results? I fell asleep!!! Nooooo!!!


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

LMN said:


> I am have to change my mind on Absalon. He is descending super well.


Yes, I agree, will be interesting to see him in Nove Mestro. Think he have added a lot of skills in the downhills and looking more confident, taking jumps and really pushing the bike harder than before. Great to see him improving his overall abilities at his age, impressive. Also the use of dropper will help him.

Will catch up on girls race later, started 03.00 in Euro-time so a little bit to early. But my guess at Langvald was a good one


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## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

Absalon looked really well in the downhills, I guess training with his brother and dropper made a big change. Nino will have hard times!
Some new-ish names in women's results, shame quite a few top ones were missing.

Some lap time stats UCI MTB WORLD CUP - XCO - DHI Cairns / World Cup Statistics - MTBCrossCountry Lars Forster had amazing lap times!

































Results - UCI MTB WORLD CUP - XCO - DHI Cairns / World Cup - MTBCrossCountry


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Good result for the Kiwi's.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

To follow Sagan

http://my1.raceresult.com/53135/results?lang=de#0_41D0DE


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

It looks like UCI has dropped the Analysis tab in the Results section that had the lap and split times for each rider through the whole race as an Excel spreadsheet. The Tissot timing page isn't displaying that entire race timing anymore either, just the last and current lap.

Mountain Bike - Results


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## Dphoward (Jul 29, 2013)

2 questions:

1. why would some American riders ride in the USA kit and not their sponsored kit? (S. Ettinger)

2. would Absalon really race on Stan's wheels? Maybe just uses them for warm up/practice?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Dphoward said:


> 2 questions:
> 
> 1. why would some American riders ride in the USA kit and not their sponsored kit? (S. Ettinger)
> 
> 2. would Absalon really race on Stan's wheels? Maybe just uses them for warm up/practice?


Because USAC paid their way and they are racing for the US National Team that race.

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## BushwackerinPA (Aug 10, 2006)

Dphoward said:


> 2 questions:
> 
> 1. why would some American riders ride in the USA kit and not their sponsored kit? (S. Ettinger)
> 
> 2. would Absalon really race on Stan's wheels? Maybe just uses them for warm up/practice?


2. because the best XTR wheels are tublular and continential another sponsor of his does not make a tubular. So he runs XTR hubs on stans Gold rims.

BTW told you guys so on the dropper.....


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## Dphoward (Jul 29, 2013)

looks like Peter DNF'd.


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## Dphoward (Jul 29, 2013)

thanks @ Le Duke and @bushwack


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

That was awesome watching a live WC with a cold beer and then going to bed afterwards. Time zone shift in my favor!

I guess I could do that with the early morning races, too.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

Sagan's first attempt in Austria. I guess this went wrong, crash. But at least he gave a good show

http://m.kleinezeitung.at/s/sport/sommersport/rad/4974389/index.do


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

...


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

I think Yana Belamoina earns best on-camera single event on the Rodeo drop. Literally on camera.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Dphoward said:


> 2. would Absalon really race on Stan's wheels? Maybe just uses them for warm up/practice?


Stan's rim are good race wheels. If you look carefully you will find that they are the most popular race wheel in the field.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

BushwackerinPA said:


> 2. because the best XTR wheels are tublular and continential another sponsor of his does not make a tubular. So he runs XTR hubs on stans Gold rims.
> 
> BTW told you guys so on the dropper.....


Jury is still out on that one.

Dan was most definitely being out descended by guys on high posts (Guys on both hardtails and duallies). Julian looked quick, but Nino was still quicker.

And as I predicted droppers and XC tires = flat tires.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

rockyuphill said:


> It looks like UCI has dropped the Analysis tab in the Results section that had the lap and split times for each rider through the whole race as an Excel spreadsheet. The Tissot timing page isn't displaying that entire race timing anymore either, just the last and current lap.
> 
> Mountain Bike - Results


Try this:

http://62.50.72.82/uciroot/wcmtb/2016/default.aspx?language=eng


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Thanks. I wonder why they keep burying this sort of interesting stuff with bad website design and poor navigation. Or is it something that they only generally make available to teams now?



LMN said:


> Try this:
> 
> http://62.50.72.82/uciroot/wcmtb/2016/default.aspx?language=eng


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

rockyuphill said:


> Thanks. I wonder why they keep burying this sort of interesting stuff with bad website design and poor navigation. Or is it something that they only generally make available to teams now?


Just poor web-site design. Sometimes you get lucky and find it.

If you go to the Events tab and select World Cups you will find a link to results and standing at the bottom.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Dphoward said:


> 2 questions:
> 
> 1. why would some American riders ride in the USA kit and not their sponsored kit? (S. Ettinger)?


Not only American riders but others alike race with their national colors. If the team you ride fir does not register with the UCI, it is required by rule to race with your national team kit, even if you paid your own way.

If I am not mistaken, this happens on the road also...


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Some Italian WorldTour riders raced for their national team at the Tour de San Luis in Argentina earlier this year. Elia Viviani, IIRC.

Fontana raced for the Italian National Team at Strade Bianche either this year or last year. 

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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Just watched the men's race. I know it's been discussed but absalon's wheel change was painfully slow when you compare it with dan's. I've got a buddy racing with a dropper and riding outside of his XC tires limit was one of his concerns, interesting to think about. Great race but it doesn't look like any one else will be able to touch Nino and absalon again.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Anyone time the wheel change? Nino had several under 20 seconds in the last two seasons, IIRC.

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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

He had one at 13 or 14 seconds last season or the one before...I am watching the replay now and was thinking about the same thing...everybody remembers de painful hour of Jaro at the pits after a rear flat a couple of years ago?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I counted almost 40 seconds!!! He could have won the race!!!

Absalon was fuming!!!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> I counted almost 40 seconds!!! He could have won the race!!!
> 
> Absalon was fuming!!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think the team was caught off guard. It looked like the mechanic hadn't even gotten the wheels to pit when Absalon arrived.

Bet they don't get caught out again.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> Not only American riders but others alike race with their national colors. If the team you ride fir does not register with the UCI, it is required by rule to race with your national team kit, even if you paid your own way.
> 
> If I am not mistaken, this happens on the road also...


It all depends on who is funding your trip.

In Canada at least: if the national team is paying for your trip and/or supporting you while you are there you race in national team gear. Otherwise you race in team gear.

There is a rule that riders without UCI points may race a world cup as long they are racing for either a UCI Pro-team or a National team.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> I think the team was caught off guard. It looked like the mechanic hadn't even gotten the wheels to pit when Absalon arrived.
> 
> Bet they don't get caught out again.


That is what I saw...10-15 seconds passed and still nobody touched Absalon's bike!!!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

carlostruco said:


> That is what I saw...10-15 seconds passed and still nobody touched Absalon's bike!!!


and when they finally did it wasn't pretty, maybe a little panicked from being caught off guard as LMN suggested?


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

Absalon was the most impressive rider today. I don't know if it was adrenaline or pure hate but he rode the heck out of that course after his botched wheel change! If I were Nino, that would make me nervous, or at least remind me to be kind to Julien!


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

I wonder if they had a smaller team personnel contingent in Australia just because of the cost to get there. In Europe they might have had more team people along the course to relay info to the service mechanics and give info back to the racers, then they would have known what to expect when Julien arrived in the pits. If nothing else you'd think they'd have one spotter about 100m in front of the service area in each direction just to watch their racers come by and report issues. 

I also wonder why the don't just flip the bikes over to swap the rear wheel, it would be a lot more stable than one guy holding it up and the other guy trying to wrestle the wheel up into the dropouts while fighting the chain, RD, the disc alignment and the thru axle. 

In auto racing they drill pit stops like mad, because a fraction of second makes a big difference on the track, in WC races, seconds count, it is surprising they don't rehearse common bike service routines more. (or if they do, the rehearsals didn't work).


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

khardrunner14 said:


> Absalon was the most impressive rider today. I don't know if it was adrenaline or pure hate but he rode the heck out of that course after his botched wheel change! If I were Nino, that would make me nervous, or at least remind me to be kind to Julien!


Absalon was riding great but maybe Nino would have pushed a little harder if he had felt a bit more pressure?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

rockyuphill said:


> I also wonder why the don't just flip the bikes over to swap the rear wheel, it would be a lot more stable than one guy holding it up and the other guy trying to wrestle the wheel up into the dropouts while fighting the chain, RD, the disc alignment and the thru axle.


I suppose it's possible but don't know, it's way easier and faster for me to do it right side up. Anyway I've seen some really quick (15-20 sec) changes doing it the traditional way so I don't think that was to blame.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

J.B. Weld said:


> Absalon was riding great but maybe Nino would have pushed a little harder if he had felt a bit more pressure?


I believe Nino had more in him, dont let his finish line antics of looking super tired at most races fool anyone.

He has the same strategy, go hard, get out front, make everyone else catch up while he recovers enough to blast you the last lap/sprint. If Absalon is with him the whole time then it usually comes down to the last bit of track(or saves energy in the decents and Abs plays catch up).

But he did say in the post interview that he knew Absalon had a flat and he backed off, then noticed he was making time near the end and got moving again.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

carlostruco said:


> I counted almost 40 seconds!!! He could have won the race!!!
> 
> Absalon was fuming!!!


Just curious you tire and gram gurus, Would Absalon running a Protection version of the Conti Race King on the rear wheel have slowed him 40 seconds in the race? And the flat cost him more than 40 seconds because he lost spots because of the flat before he ever made it back to the pits. I wonder if saving those few grams are worth it on the rear tire?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

J.B. Weld said:


> and when they finally did it wasn't pretty, maybe a little panicked from being caught off guard as LMN suggested?


Apparently the allen key they use for the rear wheel was dropped/lost.


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## Dphoward (Jul 29, 2013)

did anything happen to Howard Grotts? Surprised he was -4 laps


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

This is ironic...

*Bolt-up axles built for speed*

Quick wheel removal speed and bolt-up thru-axles don't often go together, but Absalon's bike features special alloy axles made by Shift-Up. Most unique is the 8mm hex keyhole, which is said to allow for easier entry of a hex wrench compared to a more common 5mm bore. The bigger size is also built to withstand the forces from an extremely quick impact gun - allowing for F1-like wheel changes.

and here's info on his dropper setup

*Back to that seatpost*

Absalon's use of a KS LEV CI dropper is no small deal. We believe it's a first for a rider of this level to race with a dropper post in a World Cup. Both his training bike and race bike were equipped with remote-activated KS seatposts, although the former featured a standard LEV 100mm version with the latter using the lighter and shorter 65mm drop LEV CI.

This relatively new carbon dropper seatpost is built for this exact purpose in mind and claimed to be the lightest on the market at 436g. Still, at this level every gram counts and that's about 250g more than a lightweight rigid post.

The stealth-routed post links up to a KS Southpaw lever at the bar, which works much like a thumb shifter.

Julien Absalon on dropper post and Di2 in Cairns | Cyclingnews.com


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

Pics

XC World Cup #1 ? Cairns: Rot-weiße Dominanz. Fotostory vom Finale - MTB-News.de


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## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

rockyuphill said:


> It looks like UCI has dropped the Analysis tab in the Results section that had the lap and split times for each rider through the whole race as an Excel spreadsheet. The Tissot timing page isn't displaying that entire race timing anymore either, just the last and current lap.
> 
> Mountain Bike - Results


I do have all the lap times on my website


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

J.B. Weld said:


> Absalon was riding great but maybe Nino would have pushed a little harder if he had felt a bit more pressure?


He probably would.

But Absalon took back half a minute PLUS we've got to count in the time and effort spent for Absalon to get back to third.

Time spend behind folks on descents to break your flow, and effort spent overtaking them.

Just another lesson on - never give up, race is never over.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

nya said:


> I do have all the lap times on my website


Thanks for posting the information. It's much appreciated.

There was some discussion beforehand as to whether Mathieu van Der Poel (2015 World Cyclocross Champion) would be competitive at the front straight away in a World Cup. He started 72nd on the grid and finished 32nd, a jump of 40 places.

Looking at the lap times between Julien Absalon (who punctured and had to make his way back through the field after Lap 1) and Mathieu van Der Poel is quite interesting.










Julien Absalon had to make his way back through the field so it seems fairly safe to assume he was pushing as hard as he could for the entire race, whereas Nino Schurter was riding more tactically at times.

After the first lap, where he punctured, Julien Absalon was lapping at between 12 minutes 12 seconds and 12 minutes 01 second per lap, despite having to make his way through traffic.

Mathieu van Der Poel in contrast was lapping between 12 minutes 31 seconds and 12 minutes 27 seconds per lap. He was probably having to pass riders, which would negatively affect the lap times, but in terms of outright pace was still a way off Julien Absalon. Lap 6 was extremely slow, 1 minute 35 seconds slower than Julien Absalon, so he probably had a mechanical or crashed on that lap.

*Edit:* Mathieu van Der Poel was World Cyclocross Champion in 2015. This year the 2016 World Cyclocross Champion is Wout Van Aert. Edited to correct.


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## Litemike (Sep 13, 2007)

quax said:


> Pics
> 
> XC World Cup #1 ? Cairns: Rot-weiße Dominanz. Fotostory vom Finale - MTB-News.de


Wow, I could not tell some of the women from the men.


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

Litemike said:


> Wow, I could not tell some of the women from the men.


Look at the close-up of Annika's arms. Scary ripped with veins popping all over. Haven't seen many natural women with arms like that. I am not accusing her of anything, but wow!


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Rise of the Olympians - Cairns XC World Cup 2016 - Pinkbike

More pictures. Looks like Bec and Catherine were running 2x.


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## Litemike (Sep 13, 2007)

khardrunner14 said:


> Look at the close-up of Annika's arms. Scary ripped with veins popping all over. Haven't seen many natural women with arms like that. I am not accusing her of anything, but wow!


My thoughts exactly..


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

quax said:


> Sagan's first attempt in Austria. I guess this went wrong, crash. But at least he gave a good show
> 
> http://m.kleinezeitung.at/s/sport/sommersport/rad/4974389/index.do


There's some video from the race before he crashed here:






.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I personally dislike through-axles for this very reason, they make changing the rear wheel that much slower. I don't think they have nearly the impact on stiffness that carbon wheels do and they are largely unnecessary. I used bolt-on rear skewers when I had QR bikes (Lefty front so might as well) and it was still much faster.

Anyone want to lay wagers on how Sagan will do? I recall that Sven Nys dabbled in WC racing and finished mid-pack. I assume that Sagan will not get prime starting position.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

This Eagle crap is out of hand. Look at the chain length needed.

Foto: Wahnsinn, wie die Kette peitscht und trotzdem ni&#8230;

I understand he is in a smaller gear, it still seems pointless to me.

On the Sagan video, he looked very awkward, and why are his bars so high? I didnt think he was overly tall.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Yeah he looks really awkward. Almost like he's on a frame that's too small.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Jeez, it's like a skipping rope.



machine4321 said:


> This Eagle crap is out of hand. Look at the chain length needed.
> 
> Foto: Wahnsinn, wie die Kette peitscht und trotzdem ni&#8230;
> 
> I understand he is in a smaller gear, it still seems pointless to me.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

csteven71 said:


> Yeah he looks really awkward. Almost like he's on a frame that's too small.


He looked like a fish out of water. He looked like he was struggling with both the technical and fitness components. That wasn't exactly top level WC riders were riding him off their wheel.

I think a lot of people, including many of us mountain bikers, grossly underestimate just how good the WC MTBers are. Even a guy like Sagan would need a couple of years of pretty focused training and racing to get up to WC speed.

Or maybe he just needs a bike fit because his position is horrible.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

I always go back the Cannondale video with Fontana, I was amazed at his skills on the bike. The rise on the bars was insane.


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## Commonaeros (May 28, 2015)

LMN said:


> He looked like a fish out of water. He looked like he was struggling with both the technical and fitness components. That wasn't exactly top level WC riders were riding him off their wheel.
> 
> I think a lot of people, including many of us mountain bikers, grossly underestimate just how good the WC MTBers are. Even a guy like Sagan would need a couple of years of pretty focused training and racing to get up to WC speed.
> 
> Or maybe he just needs a bike fit because his position is horrible.


+1 on all of the above
He must have odd shaped legs/torso, his road position never looks 'normal' either.


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## m3bas (Dec 24, 2011)

WR304 said:


> Thanks for posting the information. It's much appreciated.
> 
> There was some discussion beforehand as to whether Mathieu van Der Poel (2015 World Cyclocross Champion) would be competitive at the front straight away in a World Cup. He started 72nd on the grid and finished 32nd, a jump of 40 places.
> 
> ...


When Absalon got going again he was in the group with van der Poel. At the time i thought this will be a true test of how good van der poel is going, but Absalon rode away from him quite quickly. He did a good ride but he's obviously not at the level of the top guys regardless starting position.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Does anyone know how was Peter Sagan pace in that race, was he competitive before the crash?

That video someone linked sure makes him look average at best, yet we know what a potential he has.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Just remember that Sagan was the under 23 World Cup champion. So he is not completely a fish out of water, He may have just had a bad first race. I agree that his stem height is very high for a pro mountain bike racer. It reminds me of Lance Armstrong's set up. He rode a 120 mm stem pointed upward. I just wonder if the risk of injury while he dabbles in mountain bike racing is worth the risk to his amazing Road racing career.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

He was junior world champ. Positive stem rise looks weird on any 29er, but especially on an XC racer.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Apparently he had a slow start, but quickly positioned himself as the leader of the race. In lap 6 still at the leading group he started taking more risks and subsequently crashed and damaged his bike, not allowing him from continuing. 

So I guess he just had bad luck and probably could win the race.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Looks like a totally different person.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

If you look at some of the pictures posted, he has dirt and grass in his helmet. 

Looks to me like he hit the deck and got his bell rung pretty good.

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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

I agree, he looked ok at the begining. Just the bike fit threw me off.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Looking back at my own picks for the podium in a previous post, I had a good result!!!

I had Annika and Pendrel on the podium for the ladies. 

As for the men, I had the two usual suspects plus Marrotte...

Not bad...
We should start a Pick'em at every WC!!!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

m3bas said:


> When Absalon got going again he was in the group with van der Poel. At the time i thought this will be a true test of how good van der poel is going, but Absalon rode away from him quite quickly. He did a good ride but he's obviously not at the level of the top guys regardless starting position.


Van der Poel appears to be about the level of top North Americans. He battle a lot with Derick Z. and Steven E.

Give him a season or three and he near the top of the field. Both Nino and Absalon didn't hit their stride until their mid-20s.


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## sandyf (Sep 3, 2012)

Also, Gagne had a stellar performance with 12th place


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

sandyf said:


> Also, Gagne had a stellar performance with 12th place
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dre in 19th was super cool. Nicest kid you will ever meet.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

m3bas said:


> When Absalon got going again he was in the group with van der Poel. At the time i thought this will be a true test of how good van der poel is going, but Absalon rode away from him quite quickly. He did a good ride but he's obviously not at the level of the top guys regardless starting position.


Looking at Julien Absalon's laptimes in comparison to Mathieu van Der Poel seemed fairer than using Nino Schurter's. Nino Schurter was relatively backed off and only doing around 12 minute 12 second laps for the mid part of the race. I think Nino Schurter could have lifted the pace and easily gone another 30 seconds or so quicker for the full race distance if he had been pushed harder by Julien Absalon.

If you look at Mathieu van Der Poel's first lap of 12 minutes 43 seconds that shows the penalty suffered for starting 72nd on the Grid. Nino Schurter started at the front and had a lap time of 12 minutes 01 seconds for Lap 1, 42 seconds quicker.

According to Pinkbike the reason that Mathieu van Der Poel lost so much time on Lap 6 was that he destroyed his rear wheel. I'd imagine he punctured and then tried to ride on the rim to the tech zone but there weren't anymore details (photo caption halfway down page).

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/rise-of-the-olympians-cairns-xc-world-cup-2016.html

.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Ok, I'm way behind here, but I gotta say that wheel change by Absalon's crew was f'ing embarassing. Scrambling to find a wrench while your rider stands there waiting? And why wouldn't they use a bloody power tool? Shameful for a pro team.

Nice to see Absalon descending so much faster though. Would be interesting to see what he could do on better tires. Race Kings have to be one of the worst cornering tires out there.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

We have to remember that MvdP made up 40 spots, with a mechanical. We don't know how many matches he had to burn early to make up all those spots. When Absalon had his flat, the crowd was thinned out and I'm guessing much easier to pass. By that time MvdP, may have already used up his matches and couldn't go into the red to chase after Absalon. That said, MvdP still needs many more MTB races under his belt before Absalon or Shurter have anything to worry about. I could see him getting top 10 though in a couple WC races this year if he's dedicated and stays after it. But he's young and a CX star so he may lose interest.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> We have to remember that MvdP made up 40 spots, with a mechanical. We don't know how many matches he had to burn early to make up all those spots. When Absalon had his flat, the crowd was thinned out and I'm guessing much easier to pass. By that time MvdP, may have already used up his matches and couldn't go into the red to chase after Absalon. That said, MvdP still needs many more MTB races under his belt before Absalon or Shurter have anything to worry about. I could see him getting top 10 though in a couple WC races this year if he's dedicated and stays after it. But he's young and a CX star so he may lose interest.


If you look carefully you will see that he made those positions in the first 30 seconds of the race. As I said the guy can start, that is his big advantage from cross racing.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

spsoon said:


> Nice to see Absalon descending so much faster though.


Maybe his new girl friend is helping him sort out his skills?

Vojo Magazine » Julien Absalon et Pauline Ferrand-Prevot officialisent leur relation - Vojo Magazine


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

LMN said:


> Maybe his new girl friend is helping him sort out his skills?
> 
> Vojo Magazine » Julien Absalon et Pauline Ferrand-Prevot officialisent leur relation - Vojo Magazine


Whoa.

It's crazy to think how many times I've seen his wife at races, handing up bottles, at the finish with his kid(s), etc.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

LMN said:


> Maybe his new girl friend is helping him sort out his skills?
> 
> Vojo Magazine » Julien Absalon et Pauline Ferrand-Prevot officialisent leur relation - Vojo Magazine


This is even bigger than him using a dropper post! Whoa.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Hopefully what I read was lost in translation.....IF this is the case, there is always two side to every story but it seemed as though his wife was very supportive and a big part of his life, my hope is she ditched him and not him leaving her for PFP.

BUT, I did mention to my wife a ways back that it looked like they were spending to much time together(PFP) in the pictures I saw.

I cant say I feel the same about him now, he was the guy I always rooted for.

On a side note, I call Neff and Naf get something going lol.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Life happens. 
Very easy to judge, but no one can ever know what happens in between 4 walls, nor is it our business.

Personally, I was, and probably would be again (doesn't matter who left who, split is always as stressful as you can have it), shattered to pieces and unable to spin a gear, let alone put a focused race out.


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## JoelGuelph (May 20, 2010)

Sven Nys had a rough season when he went through a divorce, recently.

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Let me say that my earlier reaction wasn't a judgement, of anyone involved. Things happen. People fall out of love, meet other people, and move on. 

I was just shocked to read it. I hope all parties find happiness.

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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

I guess the real question is...what was the largest cog out back on the Eagle that Nino used during the race?

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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Funny that the Absalon news didn't get any space at bikerumor.com


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Goran_injo said:


> Funny that the Absalon news didn't get any space at bikerumor.com


Too funny, I'm betting whether or not Nino used the 50t won't make their front page either.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

zephxiii said:


> I guess the real question is...what was the largest cog out back on the Eagle that Nino used during the race?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


I doubt Nino will ever use the 50 in the back. The only use it'll see is when the mechanic is going through the gears on the bike stand.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Stonerider said:


> I doubt Nino will ever use the 50 in the back. The only use it'll see is when the mechanic is going through the gears on the bike stand.


We're verging on stuff that should be in the equipment thread, butttt I wish Sram could remove that 50t and sell an all steel 10-42.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

csteven71 said:


> We're verging on stuff that should be in the equipment thread, butttt I wish Sram could remove that 50t and sell an all steel 10-42.


You're right -- we're getting off-topic -- but, I believe the aftermarket GX 10-42 is all steel. It's quite a bit heavier than XX1/XO1 but still lighter than XT 11-42 and somewhat affordable.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Back on topic...

It would be interesting to see how the season goes now that we've seen the first race. We all knew Nino and Absalon would perform up to their standards, but we saw a bunch of guys and girls that the result in Cairns was not what we are accustomed to see. 

Lars Foster impressed me coming from U23. Sabine Spitz? Wow!!! I wish I could be that fast when I reach her age!!! I expected a good result from Maxime Marrotte, and he did not disappoint me. Likewise from Annika. Flo Vo and M Fluck performed as expected...

LMN mentioned Batty could be a favorite for Cairns, but a Top 10 result is still good. Does anybody remember a piece made last season about privateer Kate Flucker? She did well!

And what ever happened to Anton Cooper?



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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Guys, guys. First of all GX is not available in 12 speed yet.

Secondly, to be on topic, Nino uses 38x10-50 12 speed. That is the same gear ratio in 38x50 as 32x42. 

Everyone complaining about Eagle needs to do some work with Sheldon Brown's gear calculator. Eagle 1x12 is intended to completely replace 2x drivetrains. I agree a smaller ratio cassette would be cool, and we'll no doubt get them in the aftermarket.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Well..this article says he uses 10-50, 12speed, 
Bike check: Nino Schurter's Scott Spark - MarathonMTB.com
but the photo of the cassette on the page
https://marathonmtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/IMG_6097.jpg
shows how many sprockets?


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Goran_injo said:


> Well..this article says he uses 10-50, 12speed,
> Bike check: Nino Schurter's Scott Spark - MarathonMTB.com
> but the photo of the cassette on the page
> https://marathonmtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/IMG_6097.jpg
> shows how many sprockets?


I think it might just be the angle:

https://brimages.bikeboardmedia.net...sram-XX1-eagle-12speed-cassette-details02.jpg

In this one the 10t is very hidden.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

Goran_injo said:


> Well..this article says he uses 10-50, 12speed,
> Bike check: Nino Schurter's Scott Spark - MarathonMTB.com
> but the photo of the cassette on the page
> https://marathonmtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/IMG_6097.jpg
> shows how many sprockets?


Wow....10 speed. Interesting. I guess when you're that strong the bigger gaps between gears are no big deal.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Goran_injo said:


> Well..this article says he uses 10-50, 12speed,
> Bike check: Nino Schurter's Scott Spark - MarathonMTB.com
> but the photo of the cassette on the page
> https://marathonmtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/IMG_6097.jpg
> shows how many sprockets?


Now that is really interesting. I just counted it over and over again and... 10?


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Goran_injo said:


> Well..this article says he uses 10-50, 12speed,
> Bike check: Nino Schurter's Scott Spark - MarathonMTB.com
> but the photo of the cassette on the page
> https://marathonmtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/IMG_6097.jpg
> shows how many sprockets?












Good spot! After several recounts I make it a 10 speed cassette too.


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## Loch (Apr 29, 2011)

And the plot thickens......



Goran_injo said:


> Well..this article says he uses 10-50, 12speed,
> Bike check: Nino Schurter's Scott Spark - MarathonMTB.com
> but the photo of the cassette on the page
> https://marathonmtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/IMG_6097.jpg
> shows how many sprockets?


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Loch said:


> And the plot thickens......


Nino Schurter?s bike: Scott Spark 700 RC pro 2016 - BikeRadar USA In this article they make it so you can't ever get a good look... wonder why?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

csteven71 said:


> Nino Schurter?s bike: Scott Spark 700 RC pro 2016 - BikeRadar USA In this article they make it so you can't ever get a good look... wonder why?


I find it quite odd that they state he's running 120mm when it's well known he's riding a custom frame and his fork and rear suspension are both set at 100mm.

Also, his comments on droppers echo my own. I like my dropper, but I think they are not durable enough at this point, and the fact that I have to sit down to lower it is a concern as well.

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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Scott Spark 7XX are all 120mm...except Scott-Odlo bikes...


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> Guys, guys. First of all GX is not available in 12 speed yet.


I think he was saying he wished SRAM would remove the 50t sprocket and then sell the remaining 11speed, all-steel, 10-42 cluster -- which GX is.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

csteven71 said:


> I think it might just be the angle:
> 
> https://brimages.bikeboardmedia.net...sram-XX1-eagle-12speed-cassette-details02.jpg
> 
> In this one the 10t is very hidden.


Could be, but that is not his bike at all - Maxxis tires.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Goran_injo said:


> Could be, but that is not his bike at all - Maxxis tires.


Yeah, sorry I should have clarified. And yes I meant an all steel powerdome 11-42.


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

carlostruco said:


> Back on topic...
> 
> It would be interesting to see how the season goes now that we've seen the first race. We all knew Nino and Absalon would perform up to their standards, but we saw a bunch of guys and girls that the result in Cairns was not what we are accustomed to see.
> 
> ...


I heard in the commentary that Batty had food poisoning on the plane ride down. That certainly had an affect.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Even if there is a tiny 10t cog hidden behind the dropout in that picture of Nino's bike, it'd still only be 11 speed. Still an interesting find.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

PlanB said:


> Even if there is a tiny 10t cog hidden behind the dropout in that picture of Nino's bike, it'd still only be 11 speed. Still an interesting find.


Yeah, I counted the cogs from the official bike and there is not way that's a 12 speed cassette. My take is that Nino didn't feel comfortable with it and decided to stick for something more reliable at this time.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

PlanB said:


> Even if there is a tiny 10t cog hidden behind the dropout in that picture of Nino's bike, it'd still only be 11 speed. Still an interesting find.


That looks like a picture of the limited number of 11s XX1, gold and black cassettes that a few SRAM racers had at the WC last year.

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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> That looks like a picture of the limited number of 11s XX1, gold and black cassettes that a few SRAM racers had at the WC last year.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Edit: I can't count. Ticks are about every 10 teeth. 50t? I'm getting 11 cogs too.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> And what ever happened to Anton Cooper?


From Anton's FaceBook...


AntonCooper said:


> It's that time again, World Cup #1 tomorrow! Things have threatened to come undone for me the last couple of days after waking up with a killer sore throat 2 nights ago. So far no fever and as it's isolated from my neck up at this stage I will still be starting tomorrow. Not expecting much but keen to pick up some points and not just make up the numbers! Thanks to @cannondalefactoryracing and #subaruaustralia for the support whilst I have been here. Let's see what tomorrow brings, starting number 30 so I have plenty of work to do early on in the race. You can watch all the action live on #RedBullTV http://www.redbull.tv/videos/event-stream-639/cross-country-men race starts at 2:20pm local time, 4:20pm NZ time and 6:20am for all those in Europe. It seems my usual early season bad luck has struck again! I'm confident I will be full strength by Albstadt but for now I will be in damage limitation mode.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Does anybody remember a piece made last season about privateer Kate Flucker? She did well!


From Kate's FB...


KateFluker said:


> Ended up 26th today.. definitely not the result I know im capable of. 1st lap got a big old vine tangled in the wheel which made it tough to turn, got to the tech zone and the boys got the wheel changed out but I lost a lot of places. The climb didnt offer a lot of passing opportunities so it was hard to make up the places. Kept battling til the end though bring on Germany.


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## Olsson (Apr 6, 2007)

khardrunner14 said:


> Look at the close-up of Annika's arms. Scary ripped with veins popping all over. Haven't seen many natural women with arms like that. I am not accusing her of anything, but wow!


She looked like that already 6 years ago when I was fighting her in local races in Denmark.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Apparently Sagan finished 4th today...


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

carlostruco said:


> Apparently Sagan finished 4th today...


Yes he did! Looking good. His involvement is a good thing for mountain biking. Perhaps he will choose to compete in the Olympics in XC as well as road?


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

according to Christoph Sauser, who is with Specialized as some manager now, Sagan's endeavour is clearly directed towards Rio.

Yesterday he was riding at the front but got a flat. Fell back to sixth position but fought back to fourth. This brought him 20 points required for Rio.

Sagomanie!










I've said it before. Characters like him are lacking in the present XC circus. Like him or not but he draws a croud.

Just got back from Riva, Lake Garda, which is a 2.5 hours from where I live. Neff made it top 10 on the Ronda Extrema.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Video of Peter Sagan leading the race.



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154145710764467


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

ewarnerusa said:


> Video of Peter Sagan leading the race.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154145710764467


Ha ha. Looks like the other big names took the weekend off, but battling back to 4th after a flat was still impressive.

Mountain Bike - Results


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

He's said he won't be racing the Olympic road race, at least not for a medal. Too many big climbs.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

ewarnerusa said:


> Video of Peter Sagan leading the race.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154145710764467


What's with people running on the course? Don't they know there's a race on!


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

OK, actual Sagan race footage.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

So Euro Champs are coming up this weekend in Sweden, really looking forward to it. Will be interesting to see if any XCO specialist will compete in XCE that is still on the championship program. 

Other than that, any news who will be missing the Euro Champs? Pendrel and Batty will be missed of course, but the starting field will be almost as strong as in Aussie.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I expect the Euro champs will be well attended. I think some nations are using it for the their Olympic selection.

Picks? 

Mine in order

Women:
1. Gunn Rita
2. Neff
3. Langvad

Men
1. Julien
2. Nino
3. Maxime M.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I like those picks, not so much the order...but I'm not gonna debate you...I would loose almost every argument about XCO...


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

My Pics.... same people new order

Women:
Langvaad
Neff
Gunn Rita

Men:
Nino
Julien
Marrotte

Unless Neff has one of her ridiculous races where she wins by 3 minutes, I think Langvaad just looked so strong at Cairns.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Here's the entry lists

2016 UEC Mountain Bike European Championships Entry lists EuroMTB 2016 - 2016 UEC Mountain Bike European Championships


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

rockyuphill said:


> Here's the entry lists
> 
> 2016 UEC Mountain Bike European Championships Entry lists EuroMTB 2016 - 2016 UEC Mountain Bike European Championships


I didn't see Nino Shurter's name on the start list. That's nice of him to give someone else an opportunity to win.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

No swiss at all. Seems weird.


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## Ben Edwards (Mar 13, 2015)

Switzerland only uses WCs as Olympic qualification so it makes some sense that they would not go and focus solely on WCs.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The Swiss elite men were on page 3

FANGER Martin SUI19880328 SWITZERLAND
FLÜCKIGER Lukas SUI19840131 SWITZERLAND
FORSTER Lars SUI19930801 SWITZERLAND
GIGER Fabian SUI19870718 SWITZERLAND
GUJAN Martin SUI19820416 SWITZERLAND
INDERGAND Reto SUI19911215 SWITZERLAND
STIRNEMANN Matthias SUI19911108 SWITZERLAND

and the elite women

GANTENBEIN Corina SUI19860414 SWITZERLAND
NEFF Jolanda SUI19930105 SWITZERLAND
SÜSS Esther SUI19740319 SWITZERLAND


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

So missing of the hot shots

Vogel
Nino
Fumic
Flückiger Mathias
Fontana

to bad!


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

That list was updated, There was no swiss at the time. no ukraine either. maybe just late entries


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

Interesting - no Linda Indergand, or Eva Lechner (Nash is there so it's not a Luna thing...).

Does anyone know if it's being live-streamed anywhere?


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

On the page there is a livestream banner - they state banner will become live on home page once the race starts.


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

Awesome, thanks - I'll check it out.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Live feed


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

If you grab this live stream slider and drag it back to the start you can see the Elite Women, they're running Eliminator or Relay races live






[SPOILER ALERT]

Spitz had a timing system transponder failure, so she never showed up on the live timing until an hour in, but she was in the top 3 or 4 for most of the race. The crazy thing was the really big gaps between riders, Neff put almost 40 seconds on Langvad in one lap.

The men's results were a lot closer


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

I wonder why Nino wasn't racing?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

So...Absalon and Neff blasted the field at the Euro Champs..almost 2 minutes the gap for Julien, but Neff absolutely demolished the hopes of everybody!!!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Big loss to the world cup community with the passing of Steve Smith. Any time there was a world cup XC at the same venue as a DH you would always see Steve punching out laps of the XC course.

An all around great guy who will be missed.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

carlostruco said:


> So...Absalon and Neff blasted the field at the Euro Champs..almost 2 minutes the gap for Julien, but Neff absolutely demolished the hopes of everybody!!!


Neff took some special lines during the first laps, but Langvald did all she could to close the gap uphill. But then Neff just continued to at the same speed and and Langvald wasnt able to close it. The track really suited Neff, hard steep climbs and then downhill section that you could gain a lot of time with good skills.

Impressive to see the new Absalon, going downhill with enormous speed and flow compared to last year. Smooth. Yes, the dropper helps him, but you can see that the skill work with his brother have helped him.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Stevie Smith  When i saw that in my fb feed, it didn't even seem real.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

So...

What's gonna happen this weekend? Can Absalon beat Nino? Can somebody dethrone Neff? Will a dark horse emerge like DMC did at the same race in 2013? Will it be muddy and slippery? 


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

carlostruco said:


> So...
> 
> What's gonna happen this weekend? Can Absalon beat Nino? Can somebody dethrone Neff? Will a dark horse emerge like DMC did at the same race in 2013? Will it be muddy and slippery?


You can find out here Sunday: Need to know: UCI World Cup 2016, Albstadt


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The Twitter and Instagram posts I've seen today show a huge amount of mud covering the racers, it's supposed to be nice for a couple of days and then periods of rain on Sunday. That could shake things up.


__
http://instagr.am/p/BFlxh1rp_GT/


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Mud could factor in Anton Coopers favour 😃


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Absalon for my pick, rain or dry.

Is PFP racing?


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## m3bas (Dec 24, 2011)

The former world cyclocross champ would go ok in the mud wouldn't he...


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

m3bas said:


> The former world cyclocross champ would go ok in the mud wouldn't he...


He? Or she? PFP is racing according to the Red Bull site. I'm pretty sure Mathieu Van der Poel is not.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Mud will only help MvdP if it's bad enough for them to get off the bike and run different sections of the course. He hasn't exactly struck fear in Nino or Julien with his cycling fitness and skills so far. Him being a non-factor in recent MTB races could be bad luck, bad legs, bad MTB skills, or a little of all three.


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

VDP is on the entry list.

He must hate the start order rules!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> Mud will only help MvdP if it's bad enough for them to get off the bike and run different sections of the course. He hasn't exactly struck fear in Nino or Julien with his cycling fitness and skills so far. Him being a non-factor in recent MTB races could be bad luck, bad legs, bad MTB skills, or a little of all three.


Or that he is 20 years old and is going to need couple of more years of development to have the fitness to match world cup XC racers. If he sticks with XC racing he will be a top rider by time he moves out of the u23 ranks.

And lets put things into perspective his results in Australia were stunning. To get in the top 30 in your first world cup at the age of 20. That is impressive.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

We should stack MvDP against Sagan and Nino in a set of three different races...a road classic, XCO WC style and CX WC style...the one with the best combined time will rule all cycling world!!!


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

carlostruco...

I'd PAY to watch that!


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

carlostruco said:


> We should stack MvDP against Sagan and Nino in a set of three different races...a road classic, XCO WC style and CX WC style...the one with the best combined time will rule all cycling world!!!


Nino and Sagan should be at, or near, their absolute physical peaks (ages 27-32 for most male cyclists). MvdP still has plenty of room to grow more powerful in the next 5 or 6 years if he stays motivated and healthy.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Not WC-related just yet, but...

Sagan cuts loose at spring MTB race


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> We should stack MvDP against Sagan and Nino in a set of three different races...a road classic, XCO WC style and CX WC style...the one with the best combined time will rule all cycling world!!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now this would be a triathlon I could get excited about! While he's a little bit rusty in his off-road racing, Sagan has been on a World Championship podium in each of these disciplines. VDP has been been a World Champ in road and CX. Nino "only" WC in MTB.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

The winner could get a He-Man Masters of the Universes sword and ride off on a tiger!!!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Oh, and no GC roadies...this should be for Classics guys who target Flanders, Roubaix,Strade Bianche, etc.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Wow!!! What a race!!! Even I have shortness of breath!!!


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## Dphoward (Jul 29, 2013)

agreed. one of the best I can remember!


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## Olsson (Apr 6, 2007)

I just came home from a race myself. Saw the last two laps. That was XC-racing at it's best. Damn!


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

That was epic!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I have not seen a race that like that since the London Olympics. Simply put, watts decided the race. The only way JA could have won the race was to go long as he descended first. As much as I don't like an individual being so dominant, Nino proved today that he is the best right now, and only a mechanical can slow him down... 


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Several of the elite women with high expectations for them didn't start or didn't finish. Olympic years seem to be the worst years for bad luck. Again, stunning performances by Sabine Spitz and Gunn-Rita Dahle Flejsa. But Rissveds may get ride of the race.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Yes fantastic weekend. 

On XCO women:

Jolanda Neff didn't start due to illness. Pauline Ferrand-Prévot started way back and she DNF, not sure why. Too bad Rissved fell off at the start of the race, she was behind Langvad, at the end she recovered and ended second so she might have had a hope if it wasn't for that fall. 

Absalon was in pretty good shape and Nino's only chance was to out power him at the end which he did amazingly. You could see JA frustration at the end for being incapable of holding Nino those last meters.

Overall very good races, great fight by JA and Nino.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Superb move by Rissveds passing Pendrel at the right time of the track. 

Otherwise the good old fight between Nino and Absalon, still hoping that Maxime or anyone else can mix it up a little bit.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Did JA run out of gear? He was spinning a ton in that sprint.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Rissveds' last lap was amazingly fast.

Bresset also DNF'd on lap 1.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I haven't watched the ladies race yet, but I will as soon as it is available...

As for the mens, good ride from Kulhavy coming back from injury in course that does not favor him. Rob Warner mentioned Marrotte coming back to Nino and JA, but it seemed they were just easing the pace for the final showdown. And Lars Foster, superb ride once again on his first year on the big leagues. 

First 6 positions came from 3 nations on the Men's side. 

As per Julien running out of gears, maybe...maybe not...but that would be an argument we wouldn't have an answer unless he tells us. One curious image was seen JA again with a dropper post. And he was descending equally fast as Nino. 


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

rockyuphill said:


> Rissveds' last lap was amazingly fast.


To bad she had that nasty crash in the beginning.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

The men's race was good. That was one of the best last laps in a long time. I would post the finish line picture but it's a massive spoiler so I'll leave it a few days.

The commentators mentioned that there were 157 riders in the mens race.










I like this screenshot at 1 hour 1 minute 44 seconds into the race. Julien Absalon and Nino Schurter are sprinting up a short climb. That's some serious definition in Nino Schurter's legs!


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Good on Sam Gaze in the U23's too.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Anton Cooper isn't doing so well, 5min back from Koretzky.

Koretzky does have a much better starting position which may make a huge difference with the size of these fields.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

plupp said:


> To bad she had that nasty crash in the beginning.


The crash wasn't that bad, but I could tell her pride was hurting when getting up more than anything else. It looked pretty funny, her face gently smashing the ground.

Looks like the kind of crash I would have, except she is a pretty lady making it all more funny, she probably will laugh at her fall as well.


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

Both the Women's and the Men's races were awesome!

As an older guy myself, I was really pulling for JA to hold Nino off, but damn was that a heart pounding finish!


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Surprising to see riders like Eva Lechner (32nd) and Irina Kalentieva (49th) so far back and off the pace in the Olympic selection races (unless they are already locked in, but all those UCI points count toward quali points for the countries too). Were there a bunch of racers recovering from colds or the flu leading up to this race?


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

rockyuphill said:


> Surprising to see riders like Eva Lechner (32nd) and Irina Kalentieva (49th) so far back and off the pace in the Olympic selection races (unless they are already locked in, but all those UCI points count toward quali points for the countries too). Were there a bunch of racers recovering from colds or the flu leading up to this race?


I'm struggling with this too too! Trying to figure out how so many riders who have been consistently top 10 in the past are now consistently placing quite far back. I can't imagine they would back off in a world cup - wouldn't you just not go? Eva in particular - I'm sure she wants the best results she can get being on a new team that was a pretty major move for her.

You can account for some of it with displacement due to the strong U23 riders coming through to elite. And then they are dealing with the effects of riding in the 15-30 (or more) range. But that still doesn't explain it.

It can't be bad starts... I know that if you hit the first single track way back in the field it is incredibly challenging to work your way back through, but we've seen plenty of those top riders do it enough times to know their experience is a huge bonus and ensures they don't get 'stuck' back in the field.

I think there are a number of likely factors contributing, but even when you consider them all I agree - it seems that form is a big part of the equation. And with the number, it does seem like it would be something affecting more than just one or two riders.

It's exciting, but oh-so-confusing. I spent part of the first 2 laps last night asking 'who is that?' about several riders.

On the flip-side (and 2 of my 'who?' riders), Barbara Benko and Elisabeth Brandau had outstanding rides! Both were regularly pulled under the 80% rule last year and finished top 10 in Albstadt. Last year Benko was nearly 5 minutes down and Brandau was pulled with 2 to go. And the race was faster this year.

My brain relies on data to make sense of these things - now it just wants to explode! :eekster:


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

rockyuphill said:


> Surprising to see riders like Eva Lechner (32nd) and Irina Kalentieva (49th) so far back and off the pace in the Olympic selection races (unless they are already locked in, but all those UCI points count toward quali points for the countries too). Were there a bunch of racers recovering from colds or the flu leading up to this race?


I think colds/flu is the likely cause.

Both myself and Catharine were pleasantly surprised by her result, yesterday she was not well.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

rockyuphill said:


> Surprising to see riders like Eva Lechner (32nd) and Irina Kalentieva (49th) so far back and off the pace in the Olympic selection races (unless they are already locked in, but all those UCI points count toward quali points for the countries too). Were there a bunch of racers recovering from colds or the flu leading up to this race?


I heard that Kalentieva recently had her appendix removed.


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## Don1c (Jan 11, 2015)

csteven71 said:


> Did JA run out of gear? He was spinning a ton in that sprint.


Do you guys think the wheel size difference contributed to the outcome?


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Don1c said:


> Do you guys think the wheel size difference contributed to the outcome?


Yes, Nino would have won by a minute on a 29er!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I don't think Absalon shifted during that sprint, while Nino had the chance to plan his sprint with time...


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Both of those guys appear to be running a 1x drivetrain, from the Canadian Cyclist photos it looks like Schurter has a much bigger chainring, that could have made the difference if they were both able to peak at the same spin rate.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Absalon usually rides with a 34t ring. Nino, now with Eagle, apparently is using a 38t ring, jumping from the 36t ring he used to ride with. 


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

carlostruco said:


> Absalon usually rides with a 34t ring. Nino, now with Eagle, apparently is using a 38t ring, jumping from the 36t ring he used to ride with.


Plus Absalon is limited in top end speed by Shimano's 11 tooth small cog in the rear (11-40 cassette). Nino has a 10 tooth cog in the rear (10-50 cassette...was 10-42 before Eagle). Sram cassette's give you more range plus they are lighter. I use a Sram 10-42 cassette with my 11-speed XTR rear derailleur and shifter...it works great. But Shimano isn't paying my bills either so I can put on what I want.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Abs should have picked a hardee gear for that sprint. Looked like he peaked just a bit to soon.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Im doubting they were both in the hardest gears. It was too short of a straight to push the 10/11 cogs, even for them.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I doubt gearing was a factor, Nino is reportedly a better sprinter and the rider in front leading the sprint is at a disadvantage. Nino may have not even been in his top gear.


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## kylef (Feb 10, 2015)

Tactically, Schurter was in the best position on Absalon's wheel as they entered the finish area. Watching the video as they were approaching the finish area, I think Absalon knew that before the sprint even began. 

I (and I am sure others do as well) know from personal experience what that feeling is like in that situation.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

We had this same discussion earlier in the year in sprint of Nino vs. Fontana...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Absalon sure could have used Vogel's mechanic in Cairns.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

From the post-finish line video screen captures, if they weren't both running the biggest gear they had, it was very close to the biggest gear. There was no static shot of Absalon's bike when he skidded to a halt.

















And this blow up from one of the Canadian Cyclist finish line photos, it looks like they were each in the small cogs


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## iheartoregon (Apr 23, 2013)

It makes my knees ache just watching Kulhavy pedal with how far in /\ he angles his knees.. it looks like they almost touch!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Don1c said:


> Do you guys think the wheel size difference contributed to the outcome?


No. Nino has won every single sprint against Absalon, regardless of wheel size.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

iheartoregon said:


> It makes my knees ache just watching Kulhavy pedal with how far in /\ he angles his knees.. it looks like they almost touch!


Good to see Kulhavy back in action with the 4th place finish after way too much bad luck with crashes. He's getting into his prime right in time for the Olympics as well.

We know he can win a sprint against Nino 

Looks like he has opted for wider bars too. His knees come up so high because his stem is slammed so low.


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

What an awesome finish! I didn't find the course all that entertaining to watch, but it was a great race at the end! Had a nice afternoon laying on the couch recovering from the GJ Off-road and watching the rerun.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

I hope Red Bull TV leasrn to show a leader board for all competitors throughout the race. It would have been interesting to see how, e.g. Grotts, Cooper were doing.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

madfella said:


> I hope Red Bull TV leasrn to show a leader board for all competitors throughout the race. It would have been interesting to see how, e.g. Grotts, Cooper were doing.


You can always follow them at Tissot Timing - Results -

```
http://www.tissottiming.com
```
The site also have a live-feed for U23


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

MvDP would have got about 6th in the u23's with his very consistent lap times.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Retro busted:

Mountain biker disqualified from London Olympics after testing positive for EPO - Canadian Cycling Magazine

Slovenia mountain biker Blaža Klemenčič is now the 45th athlete to be disqualified from the London 2012 Olympic summer games after being handed a two-year ban by the International Cycling Union. The suspension comes after a reanalysis last year of a sample submitted in March 2012 by the 36-year-old revealed traces of erythropoietin (EPO).

"The anti-doping tribunal found the rider guilty of an anti-doping rule violation and imposed a two-year period of ineligibility on the rider. Moreover, the results obtained by the rider from 27 March 2012 to 31 December 2012 are disqualified, whilst all other results shall stand."


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

I feel like Absalon makes a mistake by getting into a tactical battle with Schurter. I think he needs to take full advantage of his endurance/climbing abilities and push the pace through the middle of the race and just grind him down. We saw in Cairns the kind of pace he can sustain. I think if he did that from the front, Schurter would have nothing left for the last lap. It's a bad gamble to play cat and mouse with someone who is a superior descender and sprinter.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

spsoon said:


> I feel like Absalon makes a mistake by getting into a tactical battle with Schurter. I think he needs to take full advantage of his endurance/climbing abilities and push the pace through the middle of the race and just grind him down. We saw in Cairns the kind of pace he can sustain. I think if he did that from the front, Schurter would have nothing left for the last lap. It's a bad gamble to play cat and mouse with someone who is a superior descender and sprinter.


I agree. Nino has road racing smarts. He knows when to attack and when to follow wheels.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

And that he did...


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

If I were Julien and had the legs I'd force the pace on all the climbs and if Nino was still on my tail at the top of the climbs I'd pull over and let him lead on the descents. That way Nino will be fighting the wind on some of the flats as well. After forcing the pace several times on the climbs maybe the rubberband would finally snap and Julien could get a gap. But it's not going to happen if Julien pulls Nino around on the flats and thereby lets him conserve energy.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

The Slovak Cycling Association (Slovensky Zvaz Cyklistiki) is hoping to secure world champion Peter Sagan a wildcard entry into the Mountain Bike discipline at the Olympic Games. Ranked 21st in the latest standings issued today, Slovakia has qualified just one rider for the cross country event.
Olympic Games: Slovak Cycling Association seeks wildcard MTB place for Sagan | Cyclingnews.com


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Stonerider said:


> If I were Julien and had the legs I'd force the pace on all the climbs and if Nino was still on my tail at the top of the climbs I'd pull over and let him lead on the descents. That way Nino will be fighting the wind on some of the flats as well. After forcing the pace several times on the climbs maybe the rubberband would finally snap and Julien could get a gap. But it's not going to happen if Julien pulls Nino around on the flats and thereby lets him conserve energy.


You may be right. Whatever, I bet Absalon will rethink his strategy this weekend. He won't want another sprint!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

This weekend should be a whole different story. The course might be different from the last time they raced there in 2012, but if I remember correctly, Absalon won that race convincingly and his only mistake crashing on the last lap might had given the race to Kulhavy. 


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

This is begging for a photoshop job, but I lack the skills



chomxxo said:


> View attachment 1071959


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

spsoon said:


> This is begging for a photoshop job, but I lack the skills
> 
> View attachment 1072390


Haha, it's a carbon fiber wrist brace. I'm predicting Kulhavy for an Olympic medal, and maybe Sagan sneaks in there too.

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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Good perspective from Van Der Poel.

Olympic qualification:

“I knew it would be difficult, but so difficult? I tried and lost. I’m not sorry. It was a pleasant introduction to an underestimated discipline of cycling. An experience that I bring for the future, because I will not give up mountain biking,” said the Dutchman.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

scottg said:


> The Slovak Cycling Association (Slovensky Zvaz Cyklistiki) is hoping to secure world champion Peter Sagan a wildcard entry into the Mountain Bike discipline at the Olympic Games. Ranked 21st in the latest standings issued today, Slovakia has qualified just one rider for the cross country event.
> Olympic Games: Slovak Cycling Association seeks wildcard MTB place for Sagan | Cyclingnews.com


Sagan will have alot of work to do to be competitive for Rio. Hes amazing but his results were pretty run of the mill considering the riders he was up against, but im rooting for him, he seems like an awesome guy!


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

machine4321 said:


> Sagan will have alot of work to do to be competitive for Rio. Hes amazing but his results were pretty run of the mill considering the riders he was up against, but im rooting for him, he seems like an awesome guy!


I can't imagine him really being competitive with the top guys but it will be great to watch nonetheless. He'd have to train hard for the ridiculously fast starts - road races don't start anything like that.


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

What are the chances the IOC will actually give him a spot? They would have to break their own rules to do so, and at the expense of another nation that is eligible for one of the otherwise unclaimed spots (Tripartite Invitation Commission Places). Slovakia aren't an eligible nation.

Their national federation could always send him over the guys who earned the spot... plenty of nations have to make some tough decisions in the next few weeks.

I've spent a fair bit of the last couple of days immersed in all things Olympic MTB spots for a blog post to explain to NZ MTB fans why Sam and Anton can't both go to the Olympics, and why Kate doesn't get to walk in to the women's spot we have (by default thanks to Aus).


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Sagan doesn't deserve to be in the Olympic MTB XC race. He needs to pay his dues. Plus if he's racing the Tour de France in July, he won't be anywhere near ready. He needs to spend time on his MTB if he really wants to be in the Olympic MTB race.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

I agree about Sagan... he had all the time on world to qualify. He didn't bother until it's too late, so obviously mtb race at Olympics is/was not high enough on his priority list. So why would everyone else need to bend their knees and let him race. But if they do, can they find another spot for me? I promise I won't make mess up front


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Those of you that oppose allowing Sagan to enter the XCO in Rio, does that mean you feel that an unfilled spot is better left empty rather than allowing a very popular and media attention drawing champion to fill it? I disagree with that concept. I don't know the rule specifics of the wildcard request, just the description in the cyclingnews story that imply they are wanting to grant Sagan one of the unused spots that was allocated to another country.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

machine4321 said:


> Sagan will have alot of work to do to be competitive for Rio. Hes amazing but his results were pretty run of the mill considering the riders he was up against, but im rooting for him, he seems like an awesome guy!


Agreed. Sagan looks like he currently has the speed of the guys placing just inside the top 20 (which is freaking fast) but a really long ways off the pace of the front.


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## Rist (Oct 15, 2009)

ewarnerusa said:


> Those of you that oppose allowing Sagan to enter the XCO in Rio, does that mean you feel that an unfilled spot is better left empty rather than allowing a very popular and media attention drawing champion to fill it? I disagree with that concept. I don't know the rule specifics of the wildcard request, just the description in the cyclingnews story that imply they are wanting to grant Sagan one of the unused spots that was allocated to another country.


I would rather see that slot being given to country that didn't already qualify. I'm not impartial on that regard ofcourse - rider from my country worked really hard for two seasons and he did that work alone without support of a pro cycling club or other national riders, but he didn't earn enough points to qualify.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Rist said:


> I would rather see that slot being given to country that didn't already qualify. I'm not impartial on that regard ofcourse - rider from my country worked really hard for two seasons and he did that work alone without support of a pro cycling club or other national riders, but he didn't earn enough points to qualify.


Yeah, I agree. Give it to highest ranked rider whoes country didnt qualify. The whole system for qualifying for olympics is a mess.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

The olympics are a joke to me. A tiny field full of nobodies, with a bunch of the top riders not allowed to compete. The prestige associated with it is completely out of line with the quality of the event. I can barely be bothered to watch it.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I'll be watching it, should be brilliant.

Who do we send, Coops or Sam?
Sam's doing very well in smaller fields, less traffic and shorter races. Coops hasn't found his legs yet and is 30s or more per lap down on Sam's times.

Sam is national champ, Coops is Oceania and World U23...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

spsoon said:


> A tiny field full of nobodies, with a bunch of the top riders not allowed to compete


Nobodies?? Missing top riders?? Are we watching the same Olympics?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> I'll be watching it, should be brilliant.
> 
> Who do we send, Coops or Sam?
> Sam's doing very well in smaller fields, less traffic and shorter races. Coops hasn't found his legs yet and is 30s or more per lap down on Sam's times.
> ...


I would send Cooper. Although Sam might be riding right now, Copper has shown the ability to win on big days (Commonwealth, and World championships). Not that Sam hasn't but he just doesn't have quite the same results.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

LMN said:


> Nobodies?? Missing top riders?? Are we watching the same Olympics?


I think he might be referring to countries who kind of get screwed, like the Swiss, who have 5 guys in the top 8 of the 2016 WC, but "only" get to send 3 guys.

I agree to some extent. Unlike track and field, there is no "Olympic A" standard time/distance to hit; you simply have to be in the top X number in your semi-arbitrary geographic area.

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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

LMN said:


> Nobodies?? Missing top riders?? Are we watching the same Olympics?


For example, there were 6 Swiss riders in the top 10 at Cairns. Three of those can go to the Olympics. It just doesn't have a good competitive feel compared to WC racing. If we had a local race where only 80 riders showed up, I would feel really embarrassed for the organizers.

Not trying to be a hater, I just don't think it compares to the competition in the World Cup or World Championships so all the hype gets under my skin a bit.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

spsoon said:


> For example, there were 6 Swiss riders in the top 10 at Cairns. Three of those can go to the Olympics. It just doesn't have a good competitive feel compared to WC racing. If we had a local race where only 80 riders showed up, I would feel really embarrassed for the organizers.
> 
> Not trying to be a hater, I just don't think it compares to the competition in the World Cup or World Championships so all the hype gets under my skin a bit.


I don't understand all the ins and outs of qualifying but that's just not how London Olympics went down. Stander (RIP), Fontana, Schurter, Absalon, and Kulhavy were all present and riding in top form that day. Your country is supposed to send its best and let the other countries compete against them. I doubt the medal selection would have been different if more Swiss were present on the London course.

About Sagan, I understand the anti-roadie sentiment but with him it's misplaced. To me he's more of a mountain biker than some of the top WC racers, who seem like pretty uptight. Sagan is an easy going guy with a good sense of humor that would fit in fine on Repack Hill back in the day  His presence is great for mountain biking and I hope it's embraced and allowed in the Olympics.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

spsoon said:


> For example, there were 6 Swiss riders in the top 10 at Cairns. Three of those can go to the Olympics. It just doesn't have a good competitive feel compared to WC racing. If we had a local race where only 80 riders showed up, I would feel really embarrassed for the organizers.
> 
> Not trying to be a hater, I just don't think it compares to the competition in the World Cup or World Championships so all the hype gets under my skin a bit.


I follow you. But current it is only the Swiss men who are missing out. Even then the 4th ranked swiss guy isn't really a medal contender, top 10 but not a medal contender.

The Olympics are different, the years of work that athletes put into that one day changes things a lot. Nobody is good, or experienced at the Olympics.

For example Albstadt was Catharine's 62nd world cup (her 36th podium). At this point in her career she is "good" at world cups. Even with questionable form she was able to pull out a top 3. That same form at the Olympics will not crack top 10.

The Olympics are fast and harder then any other race. Riders are on multiple year training cycles that aim for them to have top form at the Olympics. Even though the fields are smaller and there are people missing the pace is higher.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

However, it is possible for a top rider to miss out on the Olympics. Sweden was really close to being on the outside looking in. Jenny Rissveds decision to race in the U23 ranks last year really hurt her ability to acquire UCI points. They just made it.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> About Sagan, I understand the anti-roadie sentiment but with him it's misplaced. To me he's more of a mountain biker than some of the top WC racers, who seem like pretty uptight. Sagan is an easy going guy with a good sense of humor that would fit in fine on Repack Hill back in the day  His presence is great for mountain biking and I hope it's embraced and allowed in the Olympics.


I don't think any of us have "anti-roadie" sentiment. It just doesn't feel right giving a wild card spot to a guy who was struggling to climb with guys who on their absolute best day place in the 30 at world cups.

I am a huge Sagan fan but I suspect that he will be hard pressed to finish on the lead lap if he races MTB at in the Olympics.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

London Olympics was one of the most hotly contested races I have ever seen. 2 laps to go and there were 5 guys fighting for the medals. I don't think I have seen that in a WC race. Stander came from way back and was attacking in the lead. My guess is he had the fastest lap of the race. And Fontana dropped back due to the seat post breaking!!!

Imagine if that happens again in Rio...JA, Nino, Jaro, etc., all fighting for a medal on the last lap. Barring any set backs, I don't anybody will beat those 3...




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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

Personally I'm not a road biker at all really - my road bike is an entry level cross bike - but I enjoy watching it and Sagan is particularly fun to watch, partly because I cheer for former mountain bikers on the road. However I would like to see Sagan race in the Olympics simply because I like to see road vs. mtb out of my own curiosity. Just as I was interested in seeing Nino road race for a bit. 

Those are just my selfish reasons and I understand that people who have devoted themselves to the mountain biking discipline may "deserve" a selection more due to their commitment. 

On another note, what is the course in Rio expected to be like? Will it be another London-style manufactured course or will it be true biking trails linked up?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

scottg said:


> On another note, what is the course in Rio expected to be like? Will it be another London-style manufactured course or will it be true biking trails linked up?


London-style. Completely man made.

Feedback that I have heard. Fun to ride, but not overly decisive. Some good technical features but climbs are a little too easy.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Search on Youtube and you will find a whole lap of the test event held last October...


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Will we see more hardtails or full-suspension bikes at the Olympics in Rio? I'm a hardtail fan for XC racing BTW...keep it light and simple!


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

The course and the way it was built kinda looks like the london course, there's A LOT of really smooth stuff so it could be a HT course. If they added enough boulder sections though it might tip people towards FS. Nino was on his Spark in the test event photos...but he also has a new HT.


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## mackdhagen (Jun 17, 2011)

Did'nt sagan race BMX as a kid, if so he's got a start snap that only that sport will train? I agree that the start is where he could loose it but if he practices enough (which he is) he's got bike handling skills, power, sprint prowess, and a personality to bring to MTB XC. Why not! might infuse some excitement into XC. 

ANd to the guy that said the Oly. MTB XC is boring try watching some of the olympic road events....super yawn. a mix of unknowns and well knowns that don't know each other, don't really want to work together but have to and just want that medal...after watching the tour all summer you can clearly see a different dynamic in the peleton...Its almost like a cat 4 road race where knowbody knows where they stand but kind've know what to do but in the end are all about themselves so that they can earn upgrade points.


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

If you haven't already seen, Anton is a non-starter for La Bresse. He woke up with a sore throat (again) during the week and has returned to Germany to focus on World Champs and the rest of the World Cup season. He seems to have indicated that he doesn't expect to be selected for the Games. Who knows that the selectors will do with that... In my opinion, Sam is the form rider. And while he's had a tendency to be hit and miss with results, I know him well enough to know that if he's there, the Olympics will not be a 'miss' day for him. On the other hand, Anton seems to be incredibly prone to illness - this isn't the first time he's had these issues.

As for Sagan, the rules are clear, the only way he could go is if the IOC tear up their own rules, or the Slovakian Olympic Committee send him in place of another (more deserving) rider.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Who is a better Olympic MTB racer from Slovakia than Sagan?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

LMN said:


> I follow you. But current it is only the Swiss men who are missing out. Even then the 4th ranked swiss guy isn't really a medal contender, top 10 but not a medal contender.
> 
> The Olympics are different, the years of work that athletes put into that one day changes things a lot. Nobody is good, or experienced at the Olympics.
> 
> ...


Yes, but here's the rub:

That 4th Swiss dude (and 5th, and 6th, and 7th...) is faster than 30 or more guys who DO get to go to the Olympics. Far more capable of riding at or near the front than a guy from some of the lower ranking countries like Hong Kong or Guam.

It's the opposite of a meritocracy, where being the fastest guy in a "slow" country gets you a spot, while a third of the guys currently ranked in the top 20 in the WC won't be in attendance.

So, should it just be a race of those that have a chance at earning a medal? If so, what is that number? 8? 10? 15? Or should it be the fastest XY guys in the world, regardless of where they come from?


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> Yes, but here's the rub:
> 
> That 4th Swiss dude (and 5th, and 6th, and 7th...) is faster than 30 or more guys who DO get to go to the Olympics. Far more capable of riding at or near the front than a guy from some of the lower ranking countries like Hong Kong or Guam.
> 
> ...


Do we really need to debate how the Olympics works? Every country gets equal representation. What if the USA sent all its best basketball players to the Olympics and they played each other in a worldwide NBA Finals? Silly.

I'm not hearing of any Slovaks that would rank above Sagan.

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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> Yes, but here's the rub:
> 
> That 4th Swiss dude (and 5th, and 6th, and 7th...) is faster than 30 or more guys who DO get to go to the Olympics. Far more capable of riding at or near the front than a guy from some of the lower ranking countries like Hong Kong or Guam.
> 
> ...


I agree. I guess part of the issue is I'm interested in the rest of the field, not just the podium. Of course the competition is fierce for the medals.

Watching the London women's start was a "WTF, where is everyone?" moment. I think the small field is bad for the image, it makes XC look like a fringe sport.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

chomxxo said:


> Do we really need to debate how the Olympics works? Every country gets equal representation.


More like equalish, sorta, maybe, representation.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Coops seems to think it could be overtraining.
Not the first time that's happened to an athlete at this level and won't be the last.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Three words: Jamaican Bobsled Team 

There's always going to be the people who are at the top of the sport, and those that compete in the Olympics because it's the pinnacle of their career to compete at that level, not necessarily win. The techier courses really cause some carnage with the racers who would be running near the tail of the pack in a World Cup race.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Yes, but here's the rub:
> 
> That 4th Swiss dude (and 5th, and 6th, and 7th...) is faster than 30 or more guys who DO get to go to the Olympics. Far more capable of riding at or near the front than a guy from some of the lower ranking countries like Hong Kong or Guam.
> 
> ...


Why this discussion again?

It is the Olympics, it was always like that, and always will be. It is called the Olympic spirit.

"The goal of the Olympic Movement is to contribute to building a peaceful and better world by educating youth through sport practiced without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play."

So, peaceful and better world through all countries competition, not 30 Swiss riders, is the goal.

Don't like it? Don't watch it, don't be part of the movement.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

You guys would not be too happy if the USA was allowed to take home even more medals based upon the number of top athletes we could send in most sports. Spare me the crying about the Swiss riders, jeez. Nino is great, and the medal competition will be fierce as it was last time.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Back to the important race. 

La Bresse tomorrow. The course is a big climb, and even bigger descent. On of those courses where it takes longer to get down then it does to get up (lots of little climbs on the DH).

I think the race is going to be won on the DH. It is long enough and technical enough that small differences in skills will show through. And the grapevine has it that a lot of people are struggling on it. If it ends up raining you will see massive time gaps formed.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Is it similar to the 2012 race?


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

LMN said:


> Back to the important race.
> 
> La Bresse tomorrow. The course is a big climb, and even bigger descent. On of those courses where it takes longer to get down then it does to get up (lots of little climbs on the DH).
> 
> I think the race is going to be won on the DH. It is long enough and technical enough that small differences in skills will show through. And the grapevine has it that a lot of people are struggling on it. If it ends up raining you will see massive time gaps formed.


I saw Nino has been playing around with a 29er on the course. If he races with a proper XC wheel size (29er), all the other men are screwed. Haha!


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Stonerider said:


> I saw Nino has been playing around with a 29er on the course. If he races with a proper XC wheel size (29er), all the other men are screwed. Haha!


29er with dropper


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

plupp said:


> 29er with dropper
> 
> View attachment 1072933


Looks like he either forgot he had it or hasn't quite figured out what to do with it. lol

I know, I know, it could just be one technical little bit right there so maybe he didn't need to use it. Just looks funny seeing him that far back with that saddle that close to his bits.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Isn't LaBresse in 2012 the race where Katerina Nash was in the lead until the last lap where she kind of unraveled and had about a zillion minor crashes and was passed by Gunn-Rita for the win? That was a damp gnarly course last time.


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)




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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Holy crap! The whole men's field is using nitrous!


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Puncture.
UCI Mountain Bike World Cup Live | La Bresse, France | Red Bull TV


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Neff is on from another planet!!!

And Abaslon really needed this win!!!


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

When you skip races and avoid travel, it's easier to be fresh.  (j/k... kind of)

Absalon looked great. Very exciting racing. Too bad the young french rider burped his tire, he was riding so strong. But, I'm really happy he held on for 3rd.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I have one thing to say...

If had to race in that course, I wouldn't last one lap!!! Did anybody notice the pain faces? Everyone was suffering so bad that I felt it 5k miles away!!! 


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Catharine highest heart rates were on the descent.

Really too bad that Catharine got pushed into a fence on the start climb, she had a lot of pace today. Definitely, made the right equipment call, when she had a clear run she consistently closed on both Batty and Neff on the descent.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Neff had a bit of luck to be able to grab that catch fence and keep from having a full face plant at that speed and at that height of the OTB. 

Neff and Daniel Ricciardo can commiserate about slow pit stops and tire changes gone badly

Nice to see Canadians hogging the podium again

The Women's race was waaay more interesting than the Monaco F1 race this morning.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

rockyuphill said:


> Neff had a bit of luck to be able to grab that catch fence and keep from having a full face plant at that speed and at that height of the OTB.
> 
> Neff and Daniel Ricciardo can commiserate about slow pit stops and tire changes gone badly
> 
> ...


Haha, I too was watching both races, though I missed the women's race since it was way too early for me.

Does anyone know when the women's race replay will be up?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Its on right now


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Nino must be pissed..better yet, Frishy seems like the type to loose his mind. Im very curious about the back wheel mystery. 

Any time Absalon really makes nino push it on the decents, hes prone to flat. I hope this doesnt get blamed on the 29er. I feel that this was Absalons to loose. With his new desending ability and his climbing fitness I feel Nino would have been in trouble even with out the flats.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Nino looked funny since the beginning. When Absalon made the first move, Nino was quick to react, but being completely honest, he is playing to much with tactics. All he did was follow Absalon, and a crash plus a flat was the result. Remember when he used to attack since the beginning and make the field chase him? That is not happening anymore. 


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

It's up.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

carlostruco said:


> Nino looked funny since the beginning. When Absalon made the first move, Nino was quick to react, but being completely honest, he is playing to much with tactics. All he did was follow Absalon, and a crash plus a flat was the result. Remember when he used to attack since the beginning and make the field chase him? That is not happening anymore.


I agree. Nino looked totally out or sorts with the 29er bike. He never looked comfortable. Very strange that he would change wheel sizes in the middle of the season, especially since he was so dominant on the 27.5 wheels.


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

He thought he looked fine on the 29er. The crash was a result of the flat. any time Nino is pushed or pressured it usually ends up in a flat.

facts are, Absalon worked on all his weaknesses. Starts...Nino would take off and really work, Absalon would have to catch up while Nino would rest in the middle of the race get his energy back and save it for the last lap. He cant use that anymore as I believe Absalon would have the advantage in overall endurance.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

alphajaguars said:


> It's up.


Watched it, it was entertaining, awful crash for Jolanda and impressive how she got and kept pushing hard.

Can't believe how slow the tyre changes are, that Jolanda's pit stop was awful. I find it hard to believe how teams don't come up with something faster and more consistent, definitely need some pointers from F1 technology.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

machine4321 said:


> He thought he looked fine on the 29er. The crash was a result of the flat. any time Nino is pushed or pressured it usually ends up in a flat.
> 
> facts are, Absalon worked on all his weaknesses. Starts...Nino would take off and really work, Absalon would have to catch up while Nino would rest in the middle of the race get his energy back and save it for the last lap. He cant use that anymore as I believe Absalon would have the advantage in overall endurance.


I agree. It appears Absalon worked on his weaknesses during the offseason. He's now starting faster and descending great. I guess the only advantage Nino would have at the moment is if it comes down to a sprint finish.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

A Nation's Pride: XCO World Cup Round 3, La Bresse - Pinkbike

Pinkbike continues the excellent coverage this year!


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Neff keeping the front derailleur alive.
in La Bresse, France - photo by ikeizer - Pinkbike


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

I don't recall seeing that in the men's race coverage.  That has to be embarrassing as the lead moto. Apparently just 30 seconds ahead of Absalon.


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## Dphoward (Jul 29, 2013)

does anyone know what tire nino switch to on the rear (for the first flat)? I'd assume it's a ritchey, but didn't get a good look. 

he did appear to take a picture of the new bike and what i would assume would be the tire on his Facebook page.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Dphoward said:


> does anyone know what tire nino switch to on the rear (for the first flat)? I'd assume it's a ritchey, but didn't get a good look.
> 
> he did appear to take a picture of the new bike and what i would assume would be the tire on his Facebook page.


A Dugast Ernst or Fast Bird ORI would be my guess.

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## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

Some lap time stats from La bresse for the number loving people

UCI MTB WORLD CUP - XCO La Bresse / World Cup Statistics - MTBCrossCountry





















Droppers seems to be more and more common, Maja used one as well and it was quite noticeable, because he isn't the strongest one in technical stuff but she looked much more comfortable and faster even.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

nya said:


> Some lap time stats from La bresse for the number loving people
> 
> UCI MTB WORLD CUP - XCO La Bresse / World Cup Statistics - MTBCrossCountry
> 
> Droppers seems to be more and more common, Maja used one as well and it was quite noticeable, because he isn't the strongest one in technical stuff but she looked much more comfortable and faster even.


Thanks for work, keep it up!


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

I knew the guys were faster than the girls, but over 3 minutes is 😱


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## Olsson (Apr 6, 2007)

So Sina Frei in U23 were doing better lap times than Neff. I know she's a really talented rider but that's impressive! Anybody know if the conditions were better during the U23 race?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Dry for their race. Wet for elites.

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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

alphajaguars said:


> I knew the guys were faster than the girls, but over 3 minutes is 😱


The course was a bit faster for the guys. Norm is about 2 minutes a lap.


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

That is still amazing. All those folks are freaking beasts. 😎


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## machine4321 (Jun 3, 2011)

Just finished the womens. Props to Pendrel! She was flying near the end.

Neff is soo lucky there wasnt a bunch of rocks where she landed. She would have broke her self badly.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

What was Catherine's tire choice? Can't depict from the images.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Goran_injo said:


> What was Catherine's tire choice? Can't depict from the images.


Looks like Ikon.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Something to watch out for is at the end of the men's race. As soon as they had crossed the finish line the UCI officials can be seen immediately taking away the bikes that the riders had just finished on. 

This was presumably to scan them for hidden motors?


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

rockyuphill said:


> I don't recall seeing that in the men's race coverage.  That has to be embarrassing as the lead moto. Apparently just 30 seconds ahead of Absalon.


That is a classic picture!


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## BlackCanoeDog (Jul 26, 2003)

Just finished watching both La Bresse races on Redbull TV ...awesome! Great race for Catherine & Emily and looks like Emily has switched from 29er to 27.5?


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## J-Flo (Apr 23, 2012)

carlostruco said:


> Nino looked funny since the beginning. When Absalon made the first move, Nino was quick to react, but being completely honest, he is playing to much with tactics. All he did was follow Absalon, and a crash plus a flat was the result. Remember when he used to attack since the beginning and make the field chase him? That is not happening anymore.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was curious about the tactics. One could argue that Nino lost all of his time on the two flats (including a bit of slowness heading to the tech zone) and it was otherwise an even race. I don't see it. Absalon maintained a furious pace even without anyone on his wheel, and Nino lost more time on Absalon (who was not under pressure) after his last flat, despite going as fast as he could to claw his way back up to the podium (also extremely impressive).

On the other hand, I am told by a certain young pro racer that having a significant gap is everything and once sight contact is lost with the leader it becomes almost impossible to get back in contact absent a mishap by the leader. I am not sure that is a generally true statement.

Last comment is that I need to work on my skills so that I can ride a gnarly track like this on an XC bike!


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Yeah but we don't know if Nino became demotivated and just didn't push as hard. 

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Did I hear correctly that Nash didn't qualify for the Olympics?

That's crazy talk.

Also, it looks like Davison is a lock. Who gets the second spot? Gould or Woodruff?

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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

spsoon said:


> The olympics are a joke to me. A tiny field full of nobodies, with a bunch of the top riders not allowed to compete. The prestige associated with it is completely out of line with the quality of the event. I can barely be bothered to watch it.


This^^^^ 
I simply do not understand the emphasis on the Olympics. Small fields, shitty courses not to mention the whole corrupt IOC.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Did I hear correctly that Nash didn't qualify for the Olympics?
> 
> That's crazy talk.


That it is. Because she did qualify.


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

LMN said:


> That it is. Because she did qualify.


I can imagine some people would look at the top 17 list and not realise there are a few extra places based on reallocation. Good thing though! Although I do remember an interview from last year where she said she wasn't pursuing it (then again, she had a beer in her hand at the time...).


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

LMN said:


> I follow you. But current it is only the Swiss men who are missing out. Even then the 4th ranked swiss guy isn't really a medal contender, top 10 but not a medal contender.


And this year, the 4h swiss rider who stays at home is... Flo Vogel!
Swiss olympic has selected Nino, Matthias Flückiger and Lars Forster.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I'll be damned! Sagan was just confirmed for the Olympic MTB race in Rio. Evidently he's swapping spots with their MTB racer, who is taking his road slot. 

I know he's been using social media to show himself spending time on his MTB in training. 

It should certainly raise the visibility of the MTB race in Rio.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Sagan's also been showing off his newest 4 wheel ride, apparently he wants a car that can do wheelies as well. :O 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1576324029283192


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

For the life of me, I can't understand all the Sagan hype. Video's showing him walking his dog, medieval type weddings, wheelies whenever and wherever and clips of him driving a toy car with a camera.

And now we have him riding XC in Rio, and XC "needs" Sagan to become more popular, and it is "good for the sport".

I respect his talent, but give me a break.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

He has more Twitter followers than Nino and Julien put together. Maybe his legions of fans will tune see him race the MTB race which will lead to more exposure for the sport. It takes exposure to raise the popularity of any sport. XC may not "need" Sagan, but if it brings more money into the sport I'm sure the other MTB racers would not object increased visibility and contracts.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

The dudes a character and entertaining to watch. I look forward to seeing him on a MTB in the Olympics.


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## m3bas (Dec 24, 2011)

He will cause a lot more cycling fans who previously may have had little interest in MTB XC racing to pay attention and certainly watch the Olympic race. And of course the more widespread interest he may generate. That can only be good for the sport. 
The XC guys may also find some new found respect for their level when they give him a kicking too, although with the relatively small field, starting further back may not be as big a handicap as in some other races?


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

m3bas said:


> He will cause a lot more cycling fans who previously may have had little interest in MTB XC racing to pay attention and certainly watch the Olympic race. And of course the more widespread interest he may generate. That can only be good for the sport.
> The XC guys may also find some new found respect for their level when they give him a kicking too, although with the relatively small field, starting further back may not be as big a handicap as in some other races?


Yes, I don't think Nino or Julien is losing any sleep worrying about Sagan stealing their podium spot.


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## Haggis (Jan 21, 2004)

Really? I'd have thought he's more than capable of beating either of them.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Haggis said:


> Really? I'd have thought he's more than capable of beating either of them.


We'll see.  His best MTB finish in years was a 4th place this year against some racers who weren't ranked in the top 10 in WC.


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

I think it's hard to take our sport seriously when athletes like Sagan or (worst) Robert Förstemann in 2012 get an olympic spot without qualifying.

He probably won't have any chances starting on the back of the field; and we've already seen with Jean-Christophe Péraud in London how good is the Tour de France as a preparation.

If only Sagan had had a real Olympic project, like riding a few MTB races last year and committing 100% to MTB after the cobbled classics this season...


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

*Hail Sagan!*



Stonerider said:


> We'll see.  His best MTB finish in years was a 4th place this year against some racers who weren't ranked in the top 10 in WC.


I think I read that he had been leading the race since early on but then suffered a flat and lost many positions. He then moved himself back up to 4th by the finish. But you're right, it was not a WC field at all.



bananajoe said:


> I think it's hard to take our sport seriously when athletes like Sagan or (worst) Robert Förstemann in 2012 get an olympic spot without qualifying.
> 
> He probably won't have any chances starting on the back of the field; and we've already seen with Jean-Christophe Péraud in London how good is the Tour de France as a preparation.
> 
> If only Sagan had had a real Olympic project, like riding a few MTB races last year and committing 100% to MTB after the cobbled classics this season...


I do agree that a project to legitimately qualify is much more attractive such as by Sven Nys or Mathieu van der Poel. Sometimes you are good enough to qualify (Nys '08 and '12) and sometimes you aren't quite there (MvDP '16). But for Slovakia, maybe they can truly defend the selection and Sagan may have a better chance at a higher finish than the guy he's replacing. It will certainly draw attention.



Haggis said:


> Really? I'd have thought he's more than capable of beating either of them [Absalon and Schurter].


Why do you think that? I think had he stuck to MTB, he would be in their league. But he didn't and in my opinion missed his chance to. I think top 10 would be a realistic and achievable goal.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ewarnerusa said:


> Why do you think that? I think had he stuck to MTB, he would be in their league. But he didn't and in my opinion missed his chance to. I think top 10 would be a realistic and achievable goal.


Even a top 10 is a stretch.

If look at mountain bikers who have switched to road often they end up as Grand Tour riders (Cadel, Péraud, Ryder, etc..). Sagan is an amazing racer but he can't climb with those guys.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

Sagan just really didn't look that comfortable in the mtb race footage I saw. However I could see him outperforming the guy who did qualify for the olympics, who really hasn't had much for results. Pretty tough to get a good result from the back of the field - how many racers will there be in the field?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

scottg said:


> Sagan just really didn't look that comfortable in the mtb race footage I saw. However I could see him outperforming the guy who did qualify for the olympics, who really hasn't had much for results. Pretty tough to get a good result from the back of the field - how many racers will there be in the field?


I don't think call up will be a factor for Sagan. The field is pretty small, 50 I believe. And Sagan should be a FAR better sprinter then anyone in the field. Wouldn't be surprised to see him in first by the end of the first straight away.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Sagan has been training on MTB in Utah recently, FWIW. This is a great development for the sport. It's win-win. If he medals, more exposure for the sport like Lance with Leadville. If he gets smoked, respect for the toughness of XC grows.


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## tewks13 (Aug 18, 2015)

Just saw the schedule for 2017 over on Red Bull. No Wyndham, New York again.

I'm bummed!!! Really enjoyed going last year....


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## kylepeveto (Apr 25, 2006)

I started seriously following World Cup racing in the past two years. I would watch occasional replays on Universal Sports in the U.S. a few years ago, but last year I started watching every race on Red Bull TV. 

I think the World Cup races are exciting compared to the old NORBA races I watched in the early 2000s, and I love seeing the men and women tackle the more technical courses. But I understand most Americans don't care much about XC racing. 

Where do you look for news on XC racing? VeloNews doesn't pay attention. CyclingNews.com will recap the World Cup races, but it does little else. I've learned a few good bits of news just by reading this thread. 

Are there Twitter feeds that do a good job of covering the mountain bike racing world? Who do you recommend following?
I follow several racers and teams on Twitter and Instagram, but I want more information. 

Also, is anyone covering the American XCT races?


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

You're right, cyclingnews and velonews seem to not give a rip about MTB anymore. Honestly, this thread is a pretty good news source! 
MTBCrossCountry
A frequent poster here runs that site and does a good job for Euro races.
And Pinkbike.com does really nice WC XC recap stories these days. Some of those gravity folks even offer grudging respect to today's XC courses and racers down in the comment section.

Since cyclingdirt went away, I don't know of any coverage of American XCT races unfortunately. 
MTB Race News
That site does OK, but seems like more focus on stage races and marathon/100 miler stuff.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Sam Gaze is NZ's Olympic MTB selection.


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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

He's got the form for sure. The u23 is fierce. E.g Tituoan C would have come third at la bresse.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

madfella said:


> Tituoan C would have come third at la bresse.


Different time of day, different conditions. Maybe would have placed well, maybe not, but unless they are racing H2H it's just (admittedly fun) speculation and may not be borne out in actual practice. Tituoan does seem really, really fast though and it seems like a no-brainer to say that he's got a bright future ahead of him. Then again, he also wouldn't be the first to start hot in the younger ranks, and then have trouble transitioning and sustaining after moving up. Time will tell.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

A lap shorter too.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> A lap shorter too.


For athletes of this level, assuming they are on a good day, I really don't think one more or one less lap on a relatively short WC course loop is going to make much of a difference in their lap times averaged across the entire race. Sure, they might fade just a touch, but averaged out it's probably barely going to change their average lap times.

That's something more likely to be noticeable with amateurs like the rest of us.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Sagan. Just riding the entire field off his wheel.

Skip to 1:13:00 or so.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Sagan is on some incredible form this year. I still don't know how it'll translate over for the MTB race in Rio. He'll have to make sure he moderates that power in the dirt so the tires hook up.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Stonerider said:


> Sagan is on some incredible form this year. I still don't know how it'll translate over for the MTB race in Rio. He'll have to make sure he moderates that power in the dirt so the tires hook up.


Road racing is definitely about picking your battles; the races are longer but the power comes in bursts. I still think he is a lot more talented than he's shown on the trail, just lacking recent experience. I believe that he'll be ready for Rio, should be quite a show.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Well, I guess I understand why GB didn't qualify anyone for Rio. Annie Last looks like she's 20lbs heavier than she was for London 2012. I recognized the voice but it didn't look like her at first. Crazy.

5 Things Downhill Riders Can Learn From Cross Country Racers - iceman2058 - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Maybe they are probably playing it safe with the Zika risk.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Well, I guess I understand why GB didn't qualify anyone for Rio. Annie Last looks like she's 20lbs heavier than she was for London 2012. I recognized the voice but it didn't look like her at first. Crazy.
> 
> 5 Things Downhill Riders Can Learn From Cross Country Racers - iceman2058 - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB


She had about a year off for a back injury after London.

More importantly, she's Tom Last from GCN's sister


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## bopApocalypse (Aug 27, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> Well, I guess I understand why GB didn't qualify anyone for Rio. Annie Last looks like she's 20lbs heavier than she was for London 2012. I recognized the voice but it didn't look like her at first. Crazy.
> 
> 5 Things Downhill Riders Can Learn From Cross Country Racers - iceman2058 - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB


Wow. GMBN isn't typically groundbreaking stuff, but it's usually at least a bit of a worthwhile watch. But that? Ugh.


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## tewks13 (Aug 18, 2015)

For the World Cupp XCO race at Mont-Saint-Anne on August 7th, will most of the top riders be there? Or will they be skipping it with the Olympics only 2 weeks later in Rio?
We are thinking about making the trip, but might not if many riders are skipping...


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Certainly the last few MSA races in Olympic years had lower attendance of the top pros. In either 2008 or 2012 Gunn-Rita made a comment that the best training was racing, she was a bit critical of the Euro no-shows at MSA. 

But Rio is just one time zone east of Quebec, so if international racers wanted to get into the (time) zone with just the risk of regular mosquito bites instead of Zika risk mosquito bites, MSA would be a good place to train.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Indeed. There are also some good HC events around the MSA WC. 

And I for one can tell that the Zika is not a joke. I have had it since last week and today was the first day that I had the strength to ride for at least an hour... 


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

And they have been finding even more birth defects related to Zika beyond the catastrophic microencephaly, so the impact of that virus isn't fully explored yet. Hopefully there are no lasting effects for people that are not pregnant like the post-viral fatigue that some other serious viruses can cause. 

Considering they are expecting 400,000 tourists and 10,000 athletes in Rio, and the working premise was that it was brought to South America by one Polynesian there for a soccer game, the risks of exposure are real for the athletes and spectators.

On a lighter note, Jolanda Neff is just showing off now, a week before the World Champ XCO races, she won the Marathon World Champs.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I've had the Zika since last week. The worst was the first few days because the body pain was hard to deal with. After the fifth day, I could ride and work out almost normally, but without intensity or longer than 3 hours...


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

rockyuphill said:


> On a lighter note, Jolanda Neff is just showing off now, a week before the World Champ XCO races, she won the Marathon World Champs.


She is the kind of cyclist that is so dominant that is hard to believe is all legal. Her mentality is that winning is the ultimate goal no matter what.

In other times, I would be naive and completely trust her, but in nowadays I have some reservations about her.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

I don't know about that, it's not like Schurter/Absalon level of domination. We saw some weakness last year as she struggled at a couple races. We've seen Ferrand-Prevot crush her when she shows up on form. I think Langvad can give her a good run. Also, her descending speed is a big part of her game, I don't know how you can cheat at that.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

TDLover said:


> She is the kind of cyclist that is so dominant that is hard to believe is all legal. Her mentality is that winning is the ultimate goal no matter what.
> 
> In other times, I would be naive and completely trust her, but in nowadays I have some reservations about her.


I have no reservations about her, but that's because I have a huge crush on her, ha. Her bike handling skills are top notch and of course that goes a long way towards pressing an advantage. Don't worry Jolanda if you get caught cheating, call me I'll forgive you 










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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

TDLover said:


> She is the kind of cyclist that is so dominant that is hard to believe is all legal. Her mentality is that winning is the ultimate goal no matter what.
> 
> In other times, I would be naive and completely trust her, but in nowadays I have some reservations about her.


Jolanda rides a hardtail...that's cheating. Many of those poor other gals she races against have sponsors that make them ride heavier bikes up the hills.

Racers are product pushers for the bike companies. Bike companies want everyone to buy the latest full suspension bikes because they are more expensive than hardtails. They get to sell you the extra parts, extra shock, and of course you'll need the remote lockout because you can't reach the rear shock while racing. Bike shops like them too because of course the full suspension bikes require extra maintenance. People need to quit being so soft and HTFU like Jolanda!


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

It should be noted that Anika Langvad led the race almost right from the beginning. She lost her way, seriously, and Neff only learned about her victory behind the finish line.


Regarding dominance of individual riders: in particular with womens' racing, there are simply not that many women doing this sport. Simple as that. So it's easier to be dominant.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Two new UCI World Champions crowned in mountain bike marathon

_Three-time UCI World Champion Annika Langvad (DEN) took an early lead on the first climb of the women's 68.9 kilometre race, and looked to be in control. However, she went off course and, by the time she realised and returned to the course, Switzerland's Jolanda Neff was in the lead. The Dane made an impressive effort to chase back to Neff, and was only 46 seconds down at the first check point before suffering a puncture. The replacement wheel had mechanical problems, causing further delays and putting Langvad out of contention for the title. "It's a shame, because I felt really, really good," she said.

At the front, Neff did not realise that she was in the lead, and misinterpreted time splits to mean how far she was behind Langvad, rather than in front. The Swiss rider did not know she was leading until after the finish. Neff finished with a time of 3:56:56.

"I rode as fast as I could, and I never caught up," Neff said with a disbelieving laugh. "No, it is unbelievable. I am still trying to understand. I always thought I was second, for four hours. I can not believe it. But when they told me, I was very happy."

Sally Bigham of Great Britain took second, 2m 33s behind Neff, followed by Sabrina Enaux of France, a further three minutes back. Annika Langvad ended up ninth._


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

TDLover said:


> She is the kind of cyclist that is so dominant that is hard to believe is all legal. Her mentality is that winning is the ultimate goal no matter what.
> 
> In other times, I would be naive and completely trust her, but in nowadays I have some reservations about her.


It isn't cool to finger riders because they are quick.

And I wouldn't call her dominant. She is the best in the world right now but not by a large margin. I would even say there are three or four other girls in the field who can out climb her.

Jolanda wins because she has whole package. She can, climb, descend, start, and has a finishing kick. Other riders can match or are better then her at any one of those things but nobody has the complete package that she has.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Her finishing picture is pretty awesome. She has no idea what's going on.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I believe the UCI hates XC MTB racing. Why on earth would they schedule the WC Championships on the same weekend the Tour de France kicks off? The UCI is certainly not trying to build the fan base for XC MTBing.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

First days of TDF are least visited compared to when they get to the Pyrenees and Alps - then is when the big crowds gather.

This is a much better date.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

Euro Football Championship just got into the knockout stage, before that you had matches almost daily for two weeks. And this huge in Europe. TdF will "heat up" once they reach the mountains. Later we'll have the Olympics in Rio.

I'd say the UCI did a pretty good job in putting it on this date.


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

Anyone have a link to XCE coverage? Redbull is only covering XCO. I didn't see a link on cyclingfans either. Thanks.


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

euro-trash said:


> Anyone have a link to XCE coverage? Redbull is only covering XCO. I didn't see a link on cyclingfans either. Thanks.


tv.uci.ch


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

They have live streaming links to Team Relay and XCE on this UCI page as well

LIVE

and Rob Warner doing an XCE lap, breathing heavily but making the bunny hops over the barriers, also some amazing extended manuals


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

bananajoe said:


> tv.uci.ch


Thanks, too bad it's geo-restricted. Anyone have a US work-around? Or anyone know if it will be available afterward?

found it on NBC Sports Live extra


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Cool lap by Rob.
The XCE live? Not available in your country.
Great...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Its available on Youtube right now...


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I can watch the teasers, the relay says it'll be live in 16 hrs, the xce still says not available...

I'd hazard a guess that in 16hrs, the relay will also be "not available"...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Try this link...

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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Not working in the US.


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## HSracer (Jun 30, 2013)

RS VR6 said:


> Not working in the US.


Use a VPN. There are easy Chrome add-ons that work perfectly


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Just watched it in USA with a VPN. I wasn't very into eliminator before but I liked watching it this time. High speed yet tactical, sprinter builds instead of skinny climbers, and crucial finishing kicks. I suppose it was probably always this way, maybe the course did a better job of catering to it.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Woot!


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Used GeoProxy in Chrome and the country set to Czech.
Good race and some total domination going on there.
Would have been good to see Sam Gaze and Paul VdP in the mix.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I think the relay exchanges should be done with a Madison sling.

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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

That was some serious hot sauce from Kat Nash!!! Annika also did a great lap. Very impressive of Simon Andreassen and Victor Korestky to dispatch Manuel Fumic that easily... 


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> I think the relay exchanges should be done with a Madison sling.


Imagine the pain of having your lap go well until this hand off. This one might have ended up with a sling of a different sort.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Wow!!! How come I missed that!?!?!?!? I just watched the whole race and didn't notice!!!

On the funny side, maybe she wanted to one-up the lead moto from La Bresse!


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

There were some highlight clips after the interview with the French team and this was among them, there was quite an extended wild near-dismount ride through the rockgarden too (about 1:16:0 in this replay is when the mayhem shots begin, the hand off plant happens about 1:18:00 



 ).


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## iheartoregon (Apr 23, 2013)

The young Swiss rider Sina Frei's lap was really impressive also going back and forth with Helen Grobert. She looked to be putting down serious power on those climbs!


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## jet9rdopilot (Nov 10, 2012)

Watched the Team Relay race on you tube. The UCI interviewer dished the other two French riders (Benjamin le Ny and Jordan Sarrou) concentrating on Pauline Ferrand-Prevot and Victor Koretzky. Shame. Either they did not speak English or he just dished them. Katerina Nash lives in the US, should be riding for the United States. The little Swiss girl, Sina Frei put a hurting on Nash and Grobert. Seemed uncomfortable on the podium.


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## Eric Marshall (Nov 28, 2012)

rockyuphill said:


> There were some highlight clips after the interview with the French team and this was among them, there was quite an extended wild near-dismount ride through the rockgarden too (about 1:16:0 in this replay is when the mayhem shots begin, the hand off plant happens about 1:18:00
> 
> 
> 
> ).


Any idea why some/all of the French team members had their rear
shock covered up during the Team Relay?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Eric Marshall said:


> Any idea why some/all of the French team members had their rear
> shock covered up during the Team Relay?


Those were the BH/Suntour boyz...

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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

I saw that too, must be secret prototype. 

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

jet9rdopilot said:


> Watched the Team Relay race on you tube. The UCI interviewer dished the other two French riders (Benjamin le Ny and Jordan Sarrou) concentrating on Pauline Ferrand-Prevot and Victor Koretzky. Shame. Either they did not speak English or he just dished them. Katerina Nash lives in the US, should be riding for the United States. The little Swiss girl, Sina Frei put a hurting on Nash and Grobert. Seemed uncomfortable on the podium.


Their relay splits would indicate that it was Nash who put a hurting on Frei, not the other way around.

Nash 16:20 vs. Frei 17:04

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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Met Nash last year at Iceman, she seemed impressed to have fans hehe, I thought it was cool to meet WC rider from Czech, very awesome to see her riding strong this year. 

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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Nash really put a hot lap!!!


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

For Nové Město Yolanda will be running in Elite of course, however Alessandra Keller will go down and race in U23. Looks like they want to score a double crown. 

However it seems strange seeing how Alessandra did pretty good last race in Elite, did she not qualify for Olympics?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Does anybody know if the UCI Youtube channel will have the U23 races just like the XCE and Team Relay? 
I looked but haven't found the Junior races, and pics from Twitter and Instagram suggest they were filming the races... 


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

jet9rdopilot said:


> Katerina Nash lives in the US, should be riding for the United States.


Changing the country of the federation you race for is a significant under taking, and can only be done once. It also requires a stand down from major events (currently 2 calendar years). My partner moved from GB to NZ. She raced for GB as a junior, and did a world cup in 2006 as elite, nothing since on a GB licence. She wanted to become a NZ citizen, and also wanted to race for NZ. UCI require proof of citizenship to change federation.

Just as she was about to hit the 3 years required to become a citizen it got changed to 5. Then months out from hitting 5 the UCI extended the stand down. She is now a citizen here and races on a NZ licence, but is not eligible to represent NZ at worlds until next year. A pretty massive frustration as 1st and 3rd in NZ were selected for our worlds team and she is 2nd, and the other 2 have ended up not racing. Our federation attempted to get dispensation but the UCI said no.

So it's just not as simple as saying 'race for a different country'.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Can't wait for the U23's!
Gooooo Sam!


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

carlostruco said:


> Does anybody know if the UCI Youtube channel will have the U23 races just like the XCE and Team Relay?
> I looked but haven't found the Junior races, and pics from Twitter and Instagram suggest they were filming the races...


If you can get around the geo-block: Å½ivÃ© vysÃ*lÃ¡nÃ* â€" ÄŒT sport â€" ÄŒeskÃ¡ televize

And if you can, can you tell me how??? I'm in a hotel, so nothing fancy...

Edit - got it sussed )


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

NordieBoy said:


> Can't wait for the U23's!
> Gooooo Sam!


Tell me about it!!! My FB feed is currently all Sam, all the time! I predict an epic battle and I hope it's my anthem played at the end of it


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

XCKiwi said:


> Tell me about it!!! My FB feed is currently all Sam, all the time! I predict an epic battle and I hope it's my anthem played at the end of it


Congrads man. That was a strong race by Sam.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Updates!!! Please!!! 


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I am waiting for the women's race to go live while I watch the TdF on TV


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

LMN said:


> Congrads man. That was a strong race by Sam.


Thanks! Epic, for sure. So good to be able to watch it and see his reaction at the finish and during the interview.

And what a composed race. He knew exactly what he was going to do and executed it to perfection. When he went and neither of the Frenchmen could respond - that was HUGE. Laps 4 and 5 were the fastest of the race!

Nearly time for the women - I'll put my Fern down and bust out the Maple Leaf


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Wow!!! What a finish!!! Gold medal was almost secure, but silver and bronze were thrilling!!!


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

And you have to imagine that the gold medal winner is thinking that now she's even for giving up the gold at the Marathon World Champs last weekend. That was a wild finish, and incredible sprint finish for bronze.

Flat tire heartbreaks abound, and Gunn-Rita crashing out in that start line crash 5 seconds in that snapped her handlebars off. All the human drama you could want in a competition event


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

Emily Batty looked the happiest of the three on the podium!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Lea was at the right place at the right time...as well as Batty, but she had to fight for that medal on that sprint!!! At some point it looked as she could not hold on to it, but she did...

That was an awesome finish!!!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

rockyuphill said:


> And you have to imagine that the gold medal winner is thinking that now she's even for giving up the gold at the Marathon World Champs last weekend. That was a wild finish, and incredible sprint finish for bronze.
> 
> Flat tire heartbreaks abound, and Gunn-Rita crashing out in that start line crash 5 seconds in that snapped her handlebars off. All the human drama you could want in a competition event


Didn't this happen to Gunn-Rita once before, in the last year or two?

I feel like I remember a top-10 woman, almost certainly her, breaking a handlebar very recently. Seems like that shouldn't happen given how light most of the women are, but, I realize freak occurrences do happen.

Also, the US women had a great ride today. 4 in the top 15, and what I believe is Erin Huck's best result in any world cup or championship race. More competition at the domestic level will push all of them higher.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Carioca_XC said:


> Emily Batty looked the happiest of the three on the podium!


Batty looked as happy as Maja looked shattered after that finish.

I wonder if Neff paid the price for that rocket launcher start plus winning the Marathon World Champs last weekend.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

2015 in Val Di Sole

Val di Sole XCO results, race report and replay 2015

"While this battle was going on, Gunn-Rita Dahle unexpectedly pulled out of the race after her handlebars snapped. The Norweigan rider was second in the World Cup standings and her withdrawal from the race meant that Neff was guaranteed the overall title."



Le Duke said:


> Didn't this happen to Gunn-Rita once before, in the last year or two?
> 
> I feel like I remember a top-10 woman, almost certainly her, breaking a handlebar very recently. Seems like that shouldn't happen given how light most of the women are, but, I realize freak occurrences do happen.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

rockyuphill said:


> Batty looked as happy as Maja looked shattered after that finish.
> 
> I wonder if Neff paid the price for that rocket launcher start plus winning the Marathon World Champs last weekend.


It didn't seem to affect Annika...

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Impressed that PFP finished in 16th:


__
http://instagr.am/p/BHXRyouBrQO/

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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> Impressed that PFP finished in 16th:
> 
> 
> __
> ...


She didn't looked at her best on the team relay.

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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Ouch, holy doodle that is some serious trail rock rash, that explains why she was slow to get up in the video clip post crash.



Le Duke said:


> Impressed that PFP finished in 16th:
> 
> 
> __
> ...


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> She didn't looked at her best on the team relay.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She doesn't quite look at her best in that photo either.
But still smiling


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Oh and woohoo! Sam! Keeping the jersey Kiwi!


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Do we get to have a replay this year???

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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The replay is available right now, but it will likely only be kept for 30 days as seems to be the case with World Cup races

UCI MTB and Trials World Championships | UCI MTB and Trials World Championships | Nove Mesto, Czech Republic | Red Bull TV


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## alphajaguars (Jan 12, 2004)

Women's race is up on Red Bull's app.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

How tall is Sam Gaze? Does anybody know?




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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Who had it worse today? Pauline Ferrand-Prevot or Alberto Contador?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> How tall is Sam Gaze? Does anybody know?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


6.0 foot.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

That was an epic finish for the womens minor placings on the last lap!


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

carlostruco said:


> Who had it worse today? Pauline Ferrand-Prevot or Alberto Contador?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It was a draw?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Spoiler of sorts...
















Given that Kulhavy and Cink are in the leading group with Schurter, will Stirneman or other Swiss riders help Absalon on the flats to help get up to them?

I wouldn't expect him to help at all if it was a road race, but on the dirt, in a World Championship race, I don't know.

Also, Nino isn't running Dugast tubulars today. Very strange. In PinkBike's coverage yesterday, he was running un-branded Maxxis Aspens on DT Swiss XMC 1200s.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> Spoiler of sorts...
> 
> Given that Kulhavy and Cink are in the leading group with Schurter, will Stirneman or other Swiss riders help Absalon on the flats to help get up to them?
> 
> ...


Thats out of the window already...

I was also gonna ask about the tires...

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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

^^I'm doing the same.

The other equipment thing I'm curious about is whether or not Schurter is on a custom geometry Spark 900 or not. His "old" 700s had steeper HTAs and longer TTs than the stock 700s.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

In an interview I saw he stated that this new geometry allowed him to position himself low enough and how he liked. Maybe no custom geometry this time...


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

carlostruco said:


> Thats out of the window already...
> 
> I was also gonna ask about the tires...


The 29er version of the Dugast tubulars seemed to be very prone to flatting. Maybe he wanted something a little more durable. It seems to have worked out for him.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

carlostruco said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh man what a weekend for sports this week was.

I was watching the MTB XCO race, Tour de France, Formula 1 and Wimbledon. Just 3 screens though haha. At one point it was too much that I turned off the MTB XCO and decided to see it later on, on the replay.


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

TDLover said:


> Oh man what a weekend for sports this week was.
> 
> I was watching the MTB XCO race, Tour de France, Formula 1 and Wimbledon. Just 3 screens though haha. At one point it was too much that I turned off the MTB XCO and decided to see it later on, on the replay.


I'm getting over a bug I picked up on a plane so I wanted to maximize the coverage watching one at a time. MTB live, DVR'd TDF, then Formula One, then Euro quarterfinals. What an amazing weekend of events!


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> Also, Nino isn't running Dugast tubulars today. Very strange. In PinkBike's coverage yesterday, he was running un-branded Maxxis Aspens on DT Swiss XMC 1200s.


I'm sort of new to MTB XC racing and had never thought of running the Maxxis Aspens before. Whenever someone talks about Maxxis tires it's always the Ikon or Ardent Race they mention, never the Aspen. Obviously they worked well for Nino. I'm just curious why he would choose that tire over the Ikon or Ardent Race. Is it faster rolling?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> I'm sort of new to MTB XC racing and had never thought of running the Maxxis Aspens before. Whenever someone talks about Maxxis tires it's always the Ikon or Ardent Race they mention, never the Aspen. Obviously they worked well for Nino. I'm just curious why he would choose that tire over the Ikon or Ardent Race. Is it faster rolling?


Much faster rolling. Especially if you've got the skillset to do the tech stuff with them.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

NordieBoy said:


> Much faster rolling. Especially if you've got the skillset to do the tech stuff with them.


Nino almost lost his front wheel in that gravel section coming off the pavement one time when he was all alone up front. I wondered if that was due to the new tires or if he just got complacent and lost focus for a moment. He was quick enough though to put his foot down and stop from wiping out.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Stonerider said:


> I'm sort of new to MTB XC racing and had never thought of running the Maxxis Aspens before. Whenever someone talks about Maxxis tires it's always the Ikon or Ardent Race they mention, never the Aspen. Obviously they worked well for Nino. I'm just curious why he would choose that tire over the Ikon or Ardent Race. Is it faster rolling?


They're lighter ^^

Grip is secondary for these guys.

Plus, did you see how many riders were changing out wheels!?

Thin tire walls = flats city >.<

Apart from the BMX section the rest of that course was pretty tame ;-P

PS - Nino rox!!

-----------------------------------------------------------
Damage: 14' Kona Process 134, 12' Transition Bandit 29er


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Well, if nobody noticed, MA Fontana racer in a Scalpel...he posted a pic a few weeks ago on social media riding the FS XXC machine, but if Absalon was reluctant to change, Fontana was more stubborn!!!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

carlostruco said:


> Well, if nobody noticed, MA Fontana racer in a Scalpel...he posted a pic a few weeks ago on social media riding the FS XXC machine, but if Absalon was reluctant to change, Fontana was more stubborn!!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Old Scalpel, not Scalpel-SI?

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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Scalpel Si...all his teammates used it during the race...I tried to pay extra attention but he did not received to much camera time...

If only he would have ridden the Tour today and made the break...


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

what's up with PFP this year? she seems to be injured? focusing on Rio? hopefully she'll put in a decent CX season this year.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

carlostruco said:


> Well, if nobody noticed, MA Fontana racer in a Scalpel... Fontana was more stubborn!!!


I think he was just on a custom german colors Scapel SI - he has not really had a good result since the SI came out though.

Canadian Cyclist - Photo Galleries


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

On the Nove Mesto course the cameraman was running behind the riders on the steep climb. You could see from that what rear gear they were using. The riders with SRAM XX1 Eagle (Nino Schurter and Jaroslav Kulhavy) were in what looked like 3 or 4 sprockets in from the largest rear sprocket at that point.

The 50 tooth largest rear sprocket didn't seem to be being used.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

WR304 said:


> On the Nove Mesto course the cameraman was running behind the riders on the steep climb. You could see from that what rear gear they were using. The riders with SRAM XX1 Eagle (Nino Schurter and Jaroslav Kulhavy) were in what looked like 3 or 4 sprockets in from the largest rear sprocket at that point.
> 
> The 50 tooth largest rear sprocket didn't seem to be being used.


Cink used it near the last lap, but he looked like he was shelled.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

WR304 said:


> On the Nove Mesto course the cameraman was running behind the riders on the steep climb. You could see from that what rear gear they were using. The riders with SRAM XX1 Eagle (Nino Schurter and Jaroslav Kulhavy) were in what looked like 3 or 4 sprockets in from the largest rear sprocket at that point.
> 
> The 50 tooth largest rear sprocket didn't seem to be being used.


As climbs go, that one isn't particularly long. Those guys can power up that is pretty big gear. Triple the length and you will see a lot of rides in that 50.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

csteven71 said:


> Cink used it near the last lap, but he looked like he was shelled.


It looked to me like he was riding on Maxxis Ardent's as well. Not the fastest rolling tire if that is the case.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Stonerider said:


> It looked to me like he was riding on Maxxis Ardent's as well. Not the fastest rolling tire if that is the case.


in Nove Mesto, Czech Republic - photo by ikeizer - Pinkbike

Cink was running the aspen as well.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Ii haven't paid the least attention to XC racing for seemingly forever.

Last night on TV they broadcast the Nove Mesto race and I happen to catch it. Very cool!

I was quite impressed with the rooty, rocky, steep course that really changed my perception of XC racing.

Gone were the boring smooth doubletracks of yesteryear. I thought the course really captured what mountain biking is all about and made for great viewing.

I thought the commentators were awful though. Just weird comments that didn't relate to anything and no interplay between them.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Rob Warner and Bart???

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## sooshee (Jun 16, 2012)

Curveball said:


> Ii haven't paid the least attention to XC racing for seemingly forever.
> 
> Last night on TV they broadcast the Nove Mesto race and I happen to catch it. Very cool!
> 
> ...


I'd love to ride at Novo Mesto... just looks amazing! Bucket list! (Anybody know if you can just go ride there? I'll never have enough UCI points to actually race a world cup, so just aiming to ride, haha)

The commentators... I'm going to start a drinking game for every time they bring up the "Annika is mad at us for saying she's a marathon racer" thing over... and over... and over... and over.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

That makes them sound like cartoon superheroes, right up there with Rocky and Bullwinkle, Wile E. Coyote and Roadrunner, or Lippy the Lion and Hardee Har Har.



zephxiii said:


> Rob Warner and Bart???


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

They have their moments, sometimes a bit off, and some others super funny...

I like them though...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I like them too and think Rob does a great job on Downhill but I have to agree with Curveball on the xc commentating.


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

Re-watching the sprint finish between Maja and Emily, it looks like Maja maybe tried to come around too close and got a little hung up on Emily's elbow for a couple of pedal strokes.

Admittedly, my supercrush on Włoszczowska had me looking for reasons to blame others, but aside from the unlucky flat, I think she was beaten fair and square by someone who never gave up. Batty didn't deviate too much from her sprint line, and if the mechanic had spent an extra 2 seconds putting her bike in a better gear, she would have lost a little extra ground. Quite an impressive result at NM on a hardtail. She will be an absolute force at Rio.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Feideaux said:


> Admittedly, my supercrush on Włoszczowska had me looking for reasons to blame others, but aside from the unlucky flat, I think she was beaten fair and square by someone who never gave up.


I agree, but Maja was gassed from the hard chase after her flat, she was beaten fair and square but she really did earn that 2nd place podium throughout 98% of the race. I was pulling so hard for her on that sprint!


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## OLx6 (Feb 5, 2011)

Plus 2 
Maja was riding really strong in 2nd place before the flat, she lost a lot of ground after the flat but was still able to come back and compete for 3rd place. This is impressive riding.

I admit that I too have secret crush on Maja.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

There was no photo finish picture published, but Maja couldn't have lost by much more than a tire carcass depth, so she can be proud of the ride, even if she didn't have the medal to show for it. She really was shattered when she crossed the finish line and curled up on the ground. I can imagine she felt about like Georgia Gould did after that infamous flat took her out of the medals in 2012 at Windham. Maja had really earned that second place and only lost it because of the flat. Much like Sabine Spitz who was doing an amazing job to hang in 3rd up until her flat. 

With this weekend's World Cup in Lenzerheide only 8 days after that effort it will be interesting to see who has reasonably fresh legs, this will be the third big race weekend in a row for Neff and Langvad.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

My observations as a newbie to the XC race scene:

The women's finish was very cool to watch with the battle for bronze.

If the NM course is a good representation of other world cup courses, then I can't imagine hardtails being very relevant for very much longer.

Along the same lines, I could easily see XC bike travel going up to 120 mm.

The technical nature of the course made for really great viewing and I'll certainly be watching more racing.

Nino Shurter appears to be a superhuman freak.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Curveball said:


> My observations as a newbie to the XC race scene:
> 
> The women's finish was very cool to watch with the battle for bronze.
> 
> ...


I was just thinking the same thing after testing a new Trek EX last weekend. A 120mm+ 29er with slack head angles is not as sloppy and inefficient as I'd led myself to believe. And it will make you ride like a local on your first attempt through rock gardens. Cornering is mostly about leaning and not turning so I've seen some good results there too. Considering that trail bikes are well under 24lbs these days, I'd say it's coming.

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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Curveball said:


> My observations as a newbie to the XC race scene:
> 
> The women's finish was very cool to watch with the battle for bronze.
> 
> If the NM course is a good representation of other world cup courses, then I can't imagine hardtails being very relevant for very much longer.


I hope you're wrong. I love the simplicity of a hardtail, which to me means more ride time and less maintenance for when I'm not working at my full-time job, doing chores around the house or raising my kids.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Although unscientific, it looks like there are still courses for my beloved hardtails. 

Watch: Hardtail Vs. Full Suspension Mountain Bike - Which is Faster? | Singletracks Mountain Bike News


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## OLx6 (Feb 5, 2011)

I think you could argue the point of hardtail vs FS on this forum for hours and end up more confused than when you started. 

That said I am a hobby racer like most of the people here so I ride what appeals to me. I opt for the 29er hardtail and enjoy the simplicity. 

For the UCI world cups your place can decide how you make a living so they will be choosing what is best for them on a particular course. I fuss about pressures and mm with my bike, and cannot even fathom what the elite racers do.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

OLx6 said:


> I think you could argue the point of hardtail vs FS on this forum for hours and end up more confused than when you started.
> 
> That said I am a hobby racer like most of the people here so I ride what appeals to me. I opt for the 29er hardtail and enjoy the simplicity.
> 
> For the UCI world cups your place can decide how you make a living so they will be choosing what is best for them on a particular course. I fuss about pressures and mm with my bike, and cannot even fathom what the elite racers do.


I think viewers want to see a more aggressive brand of racing. So in this thread it's really about the terrain not the bike. That said, a 29er with 120mm or more of travel can handle a level of terrain above the usual 4" FS XC bike.

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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Stonerider said:


> I hope you're wrong. I love the simplicity of a hardtail, which to me means more ride time and less maintenance for when I'm not working at my full-time job, doing chores around the house or raising my kids.


I was speaking specifically to world cup races and musing that the courses may start demanding more suspension.

Hardtails will always be around. No need to worry there.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

OLx6 said:


> I think you could argue the point of hardtail vs FS on this forum for hours and end up more confused than when you started.
> 
> That said I am a hobby racer like most of the people here so I ride what appeals to me. I opt for the 29er hardtail and enjoy the simplicity.
> 
> For the UCI world cups your place can decide how you make a living so they will be choosing what is best for them on a particular course. I fuss about pressures and mm with my bike, and cannot even fathom what the elite racers do.


I was thinking about how World Cup courses are becoming more steep and rough to appeal to more audiences. If such a trend is in play, then the top riders and eventually the other racers will go FS to better handle that.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

As for local racers...it's a mixed bag. I have yet to see anything at my local races that comes remotely close to anything like a WC course. The leader in my local series rides a HT, and that dude pretty much blows away the rest of the field. For the WC racers, the increased difficulty makes for more exciting racing. Seems like the men are migrating towards using FS bikes. Marco Fontana...a guy that I've never seen using a FS in racing...used a Scalpel over his F-Si in NM. Still see quite a few WC women riders on HT's.

Maybe the ante was upped since it was a World Championship race. Wonder which type of bike the Olympic riders will choose.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Curveball said:


> I was thinking about how courses are becoming more steep and rough to appeal to more audiences. If such a trend is in play, then the top riders and eventually the other racers will go FS to better handle that.


That happened because XC races became shorter to be better televised and gain popularity. Since they became shorter, XC trails were made to be more complicated than traditional XC races which are what we usually encounter in our daily trails.

For the majority of people is quite rare to have a XC like loop around their hometown, at best its just a lot of single track with fire roads and so on, but nothing perfectly arranged like those XC circuits.

You see more full suspension bikes because industry has pushed for them, they need a constant innovation to sell products to the consumer. Of course, those bikes are more capable than your traditional HT, but it is merely a financial decision for bike manufacturers to push on that. Hard tails aren't going anywhere though, the two will coexist as there is a need for both as well as a desire.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Not many hard tails left at the front end of our races here.
If the top guys used them, they'd be at the front, but they choose to ride FS. Some of the XC tracks have seen people turn up on their trail bikes with 140mm travel and droppers vs their 100mm XC rigs.
No rock gardens, but plenty of SuperD tracks included.

And there'll still be the odd one up near the front on a rim braked rigid.
Sometimes it really is all about the rider.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Lots of HTs in use around here still. 

I use my Spark in races (except gravel) mainly because my HT is alu, if it was carbon I would use it more. 

Even still on my Spark 29 I typically use only 75% of the 100mm travel. I dont think I'd want 120mm in a race. 

The 27.5 Spark i rode that had 120mm I would run in the shorter travel mode which felt better for a race. I just dont need want that much squish. I just want enough to take the edge off. 

Note that the RC version of the Sparks (what Nino uses) is only 100mm. Seems like the 120mm XC race rig is more of a marketing thing than a necessity. 

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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Around here there are only two people who ride hardtails, myself and my wife. And we only ride them once in a while. In BC in general very few race a hardtail, I don't think anybody who races regularly actually races a hardtail.

But there are many places where a hardtail makes a lot of sense. Some places are just smooth and hardtails make a lot of sense. The right bike for XC racing is very dependent terrain.

The Olympic course is a hardtail course, once Catharine is back from Switzerland we will only be riding the hardtail so she can get fully to speed on hers. I am sort of dreading this; places like Squamish, Revelstoke and Rossland are not a lot of fun on a hardtail.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

zephxiii said:


> Seems like the 120mm XC race rig is more of a marketing thing than a necessity.


I don't think 120mm does anything for XC racing, but with modern suspension technology it doesn't really hurt. To me the big advantage of the 120mm is gives you some flexibility.

When I do a big training weekend often I like to hit some descents that are pretty rowdy and push the limits of fun for an XC bike. A bit more travel and some slacker angles makes for a bike that is capable of winning XC races but is still a lot fun.

A good friend has a Specialized Camber. Just by switching wheels he has a bike that can and does win XC races and win Enduros on.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

World Cup courses may get more technical. However, and I can only speak for over here (second largest market for "premium" MTBs), "normal" races get easier and easier. Nowadays it's almost impossible to get a fairly technical course approved by local administrations. Environmental concerns, safety concerns, land owner concerns and more and more. Most courses are more like cyclocross courses. 

Furthermore, marathons (and this includes the short distances) are more popular than XCO. And there, courses are even easier. And this is the "mass market" for (premium) race bikes. So I'd say hardtails will stay around for a while.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

How many of you guys have competed in a World Cup race?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Curveball said:


> How many of you guys have competed in a World Cup race?


Never raced one myself. However, I have been involved with world cup racing for a long time.

I have a little chuckle when people talk about how technical world cup courses have become. They were just as technical 10 years ago, there just wasn't the TV coverage. Honestly, the most technical course I have ever ridden was MSA in 2008.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

LMN said:


> Never raced one myself. However, I have been involved with world cup racing for a long time.
> 
> I have a little chuckle when people talk about how technical world cup courses have become. They were just as technical 10 years ago, there just wasn't the TV coverage. Honestly, the most technical course I have ever ridden was MSA in 2008.


It was a bit of a rhetorical question because I was interested in the use of full-suspension bikes at the World Cup level and I got a lot of responses relating to local racing. The type of bike used at local races seems to be a different topic altogether.

I'm genuinely interested in course development and bike choice for the world's top elite riders on the World Cup circuit.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

2008 MSA, before La Beatrice was added, there was L'Écureuil, which likely had even more crashes on it than La Beatrice had, especially in 2008, the tree pads near the bottom got some use. And they still had the twisty viper pit of trails at the east end, that was a really good race weekend.


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

LMN said:


> Around here there are only two people who ride hardtails, myself and my wife. And we only ride them once in a while. In BC in general very few race a hardtail, I don't think anybody who races regularly actually races a hardtail.
> 
> But there are many places where a hardtail makes a lot of sense. Some places are just smooth and hardtails make a lot of sense. The right bike for XC racing is very dependent terrain.
> 
> The Olympic course is a hardtail course, once Catharine is back from Switzerland we will only be riding the hardtail so she can get fully to speed on hers. I am sort of dreading this; places like Squamish, Revelstoke and Rossland are not a lot of fun on a hardtail.


 Are you rolling on Wagon Wheels yet. Go ahead and drink the kool-aid, they work on HT's.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

rlee said:


> Are you rolling on Wagon Wheels yet. Go ahead and drink the kool-aid, they work on HT's.


Not yet.

I gave them a good honest a try a couple year ago though. Had a 29er hardtail for a full season, put a good 2000kms on it. But then I got a 27.5 hardtail and it was a lot better for me.

Wagon wheels are a challenge for small riders. There is a reason why companies are going to 27.5s in their small sizes.


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

I wonder about this. Kona builds their xc bike down into 14.5" in a 29er.
I am 6 foot and I bought a 27.5 this year and I am unimpressed. Maybe I am just used to a big wheel.


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

LMN said:


> Not yet.
> 
> I gave them a good honest a try a couple year ago though. Had a 29er hardtail for a full season, put a good 2000kms on it. But then I got a 27.5 hardtail and it was a lot better for me.
> 
> Wagon wheels are a challenge for small riders. There is a reason why companies are going to 27.5s in their small sizes.


I know that the wheel debate sucks, but I'm in trouble deciding between going up to a 29er HT or sticking to 27.5".

I ride a small frame, as well, but I'm not sure all many manufacturers will adopt Trek and Cannondale's approach to small frames being released with 27.5" wheels.
The thing is, even Giant's XTC hardtail will roll on 29" wheels next year.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

rlee said:


> I wonder about this. Kona builds their xc bike down into 14.5" in a 29er.
> I am 6 foot and I bought a 27.5 this year and I am unimpressed. Maybe I am just used to a big wheel.


I think a lot of people get too caught in wheel size. There are a lot of things that go into making a bike a great bike. Wheel size is one component, a small component at that.

I do a lot bike fit and suspension set-up, and to keep in on topic, I have done fit and suspension set-up a half-dozen world cup XC racers. There are way bigger performance gains to be made from finding the right suspension set-up and fit then there is from switching between 27.5 and 29.

Just as an example the other day I spent afternoon dialing in the suspension for one guy and were able to knock 5 seconds off his time on his standard test descent. Given that this guy is already mind blowing fast on the descends that was impressive gains.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Carioca_XC said:


> I know that the wheel debate sucks, but I'm in trouble deciding between going up to a 29er HT or sticking to 27.5".
> 
> I ride a small frame, as well, but I'm not sure all many manufacturers will adopt Trek and Cannondale's approach to small frames being released with 27.5" wheels.
> The thing is, even Giant's XTC hardtail will roll on 29" wheels next year.


Everybody's experience is different. And I don't think it matters to tell you truth. You just need to look at women's world cups. Riders on 29 and 27.5 are racing each other. If one wheel size is superior the difference is very marginal.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

LMN said:


> Everybody's experience is different. And I don't think it matters to tell you truth. You just need to look at women's world cups. Riders on 29 and 27.5 are racing each other. If one wheel size is superior the difference is very marginal.


Same with mens, I think Nino put an end to any debates suggesting that 29" is mandatory to excel in xc.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> Same with mens, I think Nino put an end to any debates suggesting that 29" is mandatory to excel in xc.


By switching to a 29er?

😉

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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Le Duke said:


> By switching to a 29er?


How may medals does he have on 27.5's? Just saying they didn't seem to be holding him back much.


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

LMN said:


> I think a lot of people get too caught in wheel size. There are a lot of things that go into making a bike a great bike. Wheel size is one component, a small component at that.
> 
> I do a lot bike fit and suspension set-up, and to keep in on topic, I have done fit and suspension set-up a half-dozen world cup XC racers. There are way bigger performance gains to be made from finding the right suspension set-up and fit then there is from switching between 27.5 and 29.
> 
> Just as an example the other day I spent afternoon dialing in the suspension for one guy and were able to knock 5 seconds off his time on his standard test descent. Given that this guy is already mind blowing fast on the descends that was impressive gains.


You are right. But I think wheel size is more important in xc racing than one might think. When switching to 29 I was able to go down 10 psi in my tires and now run a substantially faster tread pattern. Now this is 26 to 29. A lighter rider or one with more finesse may not have any changes like this. 
In my opinion we probably wouldn't have 27.5 if it wasn't for Giant. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few years. A few years ago we all speculated that 26 in small, 27.5 medium and 29 for large. But look what happened to 26.


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## cacatous (Dec 1, 2013)

Curveball said:


> How many of you guys have competed in a World Cup race?


Not a race but the Cairns XCO course is part of my local trail, it's pretty technical!


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

I really doubt XCO races will morph into trails needing more than 120mm travel, with current suspension designs 120 is totally overkill, while 100 seem to be the ideal spot. 

Anymore than 120mm and you are practicing Enduro/AM and since many people love a good amount of travel, Enduro/AM has gained many new adepts. 

I personally would love to give a try to Enduro, but I lack the bike, the trails and possibly the skills to excel at it.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

TDLover said:


> I really doubt XCO races will morph into trails needing more than 120mm travel, with current suspension designs 120 is totally overkill, while 100 seem to be the ideal spot.
> 
> Anymore than 120mm and you are practicing Enduro/AM and since many people love a good amount of travel, Enduro/AM has gained many new adepts.
> 
> I personally would love to give a try to Enduro, but I lack the bike, the trails and possibly the skills to excel at it.


It wasn't that long ago that 80mm was considered perfect for XC, or even 60mm.

I have 140mm bike that pedals just as well as my 100mm. Modern shock, and suspension design has opened the door for longer travel for XC racing.

I suspect that with a couple of years your standard XC race FS will be a 120mm travel bike.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

LMN said:


> It wasn't that long ago that 80mm was considered perfect for XC, or even 60mm.
> 
> I have 140mm bike that pedals just as well as my 100mm. Modern shock, and suspension design has opened the door for longer travel for XC racing.
> 
> I suspect that with a couple of years your standard XC race FS will be a 120mm travel bike.


I'm a mechanical engineer that used to work as a design engineer so I find the technical side of the bikes just as interesting as riding them. We are really lucky to live in this era where bike technology is mind blowing. Innovation in materials, kinematics, suspension design is at it highest throughout the bike history. Of course its a shame not everyone can afford the top equipment, however, we still get marvelous advances at an affordable price with due time.

If trails or XC races have to change to keep this innovation going I'm all in for it.

p.s. Not deviating much from topic, what are your calls for tomorrow's WC?

My bets:

Men: 1st Nino, 2nd Marotte, 3rd Absalon

Women: 1st Pendrel, 2nd Langvad, 3rd Neff


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

TDLover said:


> My bets:
> 
> Men: 1st Nino, 2nd Marotte, 3rd Absalon
> 
> Women: 1st Pendrel, 2nd Langvad, 3rd Neff


Men: 1st: Kulhavy, 2nd Nino, 3rd Absalon

Women: Same as you.

Catharine is hopefully better this week. The block leading into worlds had some challenges her being a bit off of form at worlds wasn't really surprising.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

TDLover said:


> I'm a mechanical engineer that used to work as a design engineer so I find the technical side of the bikes just as interesting as riding them. We are really lucky to live in this era where bike technology is mind blowing. Innovation in materials, kinematics, suspension design is at it highest throughout the bike history. Of course its a shame not everyone can afford the top equipment, however, we still get marvelous advances at an affordable price with due time.
> 
> If trails or XC races have to change to keep this innovation going I'm all in for it.
> 
> ...


That was really close...

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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

LMN said:


> It wasn't that long ago that 80mm was considered perfect for XC, or even 60mm.
> 
> I have 140mm bike that pedals just as well as my 100mm. Modern shock, and suspension design has opened the door for longer travel for XC racing.
> 
> I suspect that with a couple of years your standard XC race FS will be a 120mm travel bike.


Thanks for that insight.

If 120 mm can offer any time advantage over a shorter travel bike, then I'm sure that the top racers will be on it.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Wow, some wild racing in the Elite Women's race, a shakeup in the typical finishing order. Nash must have thought she was on a solo training ride for much of the race, but a good finish. Batty suffers puncture Karma. Catharine had a real hard bounce. Pauline Ferrand Prevot might want to start wearing DH body armour, she is having a very rough MTB season. 

We're about 3 weeks from having a start list for MSA, I wonder who will show up for that race?


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

What happened to Victor Koretzky at Lenzerheide on the final lap? There was no explanation in the race commentary.

Right at the end it was mentioned that Julien Absalon is riding at Mont Saint Anne but Nino Schurter won't be.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Bart mentioned that Koretzky had a flat when Rob mentioned the finishing position of 13th, but Bart said something about there was more to the drop in positions than the flat. This was during the comments over the results summary after the race.



WR304 said:


> What happened to Victor Koretzky at Lenzerheide on the final lap? There was no explanation in the race commentary.
> .


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Just finished watching the womens race, really impressed with Jenny Rissveds last two laps. Looking forward to the olympics, hope she can get a good result there.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

rockyuphill said:


> Bart mentioned that Koretzky had a flat when Rob mentioned the finishing position of 13th, but Bart said something about there was more to the drop in positions than the flat. This was during the comments over the results summary after the race.


After Victor Koretzky had punctured he was shown on screen setting off just ahead of a group of riders, still in around 5th place overall. His final finishing position was 13th though, 3 minutes 11 seconds behind Nino Schurter.

I'd guess he either had another puncture, or maybe crashed, to have lost so many additional places?


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Or maybe just couldn't keep up with the last lap push by the other guys that ended up in front. The lap by lap analysis shows his final lap time was 30 seconds slower than lap 5 and 6, generally his lap time was lengthening each lap. McConnell in 11th had his fastest lap by 20 seconds in the last lap.

http://62.50.72.82/uciroot/wcmtb/2016/XC_Results.aspx?id=51180&language=eng&code=ME



WR304 said:


> After Victor Koretzky had punctured he was shown on screen setting off just ahead of a group of riders, still in around 5th place overall. His final finishing position was 13th though, 3 minutes 11 seconds behind Nino Schurter.
> 
> I'd guess he either had another puncture, or maybe crashed, to have lost so many additional places?


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

LMN said:


> I have a little chuckle when people talk about how technical world cup courses have become. They were just as technical 10 years ago, there just wasn't the TV coverage. Honestly, the most technical course I have ever ridden was MSA in 2008.


I'm so glad you say that because I have always held that as the holy grail of XC technical, but it was also my first world cup so always worried that was a big factor in my perception. 26" wheels back then too!


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

So, Monte Sainte Anne circa 2008 looks pretty challenging while riding par for the course back then: 26" hardtails with 1.9" tires? I certainly wouldn't want to try to race it on a bike like that. 

On the other hand, is there anything that looks too tough to you for a RIP9 RDO or a similar 5" travel 29er, with a 67* head angle and wide bars? I think we're all discovering during the offseason that trail bikes climb pretty well as they get lighter, and modern suspension designs are all pretty efficient. 

Just like 29er adoption was slow in the WC curcuit, and then quickly became universal once Kulhavy started dominating, someone will take advantage of the reluctance of others to try 120mm bikes and start winning with it by taking the shortest line through those rock gardens, and experiencing less muscle fatigue.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> So, Monte Sainte Anne circa 2008 looks pretty challenging while riding par for the course back then: 26" hardtails with 1.9" tires? I certainly wouldn't want to try to race it on a bike like that.
> 
> On the other hand, is there anything that looks too tough to you for a RIP9 RDO or a similar 5" travel 29er, with a 67* head angle and wide bars? I think we're all discovering during the offseason that trail bikes climb pretty well as they get lighter, and modern suspension designs are all pretty efficient.
> 
> Just like 29er adoption was slow in the WC curcuit, and then quickly became universal once Kulhavy started dominating, someone will take advantage of the reluctance of others to try 120mm bikes and start winning with it by taking the shortest line through those rock gardens, and experiencing less muscle fatigue.


The challenge is still there, even on a capable bike. But the challenge has gone from surviving the descent to riding it fast and effortlessly.

As I said earlier, it will not be long until 120mm is what people are using for XC racing. Catharine has an Occam (140mm travel) and it pedals just as well her Oiz (95mm travel). I am confident that she could be quite competitive on an Occam if she decided to race it.


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## tewks13 (Aug 18, 2015)

Made reservations for our Mont-Saint-Anne trip. Looking forward to watching all the competition and walking the mountain...
Will Catharine Pendrel be competing?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

tewks13 said:


> Made reservations for our Mont-Saint-Anne trip. Looking forward to watching all the competition and walking the mountain...
> Will Catharine Pendrel be competing?


She will be there.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

LMN said:


> She will be there.


Good to hear. That crash/mechanical at Lenzerhiede must have been a huge disappointment, she was going really well.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

The 2012 Olympic race aired live on NBC (Sports?). Does anybody have an idea if we will get the chance to watch the race live again?


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## CptSydor (Sep 20, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> The 2012 Olympic race aired live on NBC (Sports?). Does anybody have an idea if we will get the chance to watch the race live again?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know the past few Olympics, the Canadian broadcaster(s) have been streaming every event live (and on demand replay), though sometimes without commentary. I'd hope the American stations do the same, but worst case, you might be able to IP mask and watch there.

And heading back to Mont St Anne again this year to spectate, hoping its a good turnout by the European contingent, though we'll still be cheering for Catherine and Emily! Hoping to do a lap on the course the Monday after, I managed a couple years ago, and it's makes you really appreciate the level these riders are at.

I've also raced a bit on my Scott Spark 700, with 120mm, 23lbs and trail/descend/lock-out front and rear, I can't say I was any slower compared to my hardtail or my current 100mm FS bike on anything but the smoothest terrain.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

It looks like races start at 8:30AM PDT on August 20th and 21st. There's no broadcast schedule showing what is on a TV Channel and what is on CBC's website yet. 
Rio 2016 Olympic Games


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## tewks13 (Aug 18, 2015)

carlostruco said:


> The 2012 Olympic race aired live on NBC (Sports?). Does anybody have an idea if we will get the chance to watch the race live again?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, you won't be able to watch the 2012 race LIVE ever again.... LOL


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

I downloaded it when i had the opportunity. 

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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

tewks13 said:


> No, you won't be able to watch the 2012 race LIVE ever again.... LOL


But Alpha Centauri will be just getting the 2012 race live in November, it's 4.24 light years away.


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

This topic has been discussed and summarily put to bed by a few on this forum but......Sagan. Currently winning at will in the Tour de France, and throughout the year. I can't help but wonder - again - how he is going to fare in Rio. Maybe with a 120mm bike?

For sure he may lack the top speed technical skills of Absalon, Schurter, et al but I just watched a lap of the olympic course and I don't see many - or any - top speed technical sections.

https://www.rio2016.com/en/news/why...-for-the-rio-2016-olympic-games-is-so-special

What I do see are lower speed rock gardens, A LOT of smooth climbing sections, flat straights and bermed corners. I'm willing to play devil's advocate here and suggest the course in Rio might actually _suit _him.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Feideaux said:


> This topic has been discussed and summarily put to bed by a few on this forum but......Sagan. Currently winning at will in the Tour de France, and throughout the year. I can't help but wonder - again - how he is going to fare in Rio. Maybe with a 120mm bike?
> 
> For sure he may lack the top speed technical skills of Absalon, Schurter, et al but I just watched a lap of the olympic course and I don't see many - or any - top speed technical sections.
> 
> ...


Haha, that'll be his secret, a 5" travel bike like we suggested--maybe he reads these forums!

I think that this will be a fantastic Olympics. Sagan dogged it in a couple of exhibition races, sure, but that's meaningless. We all know he has XC racing skills. Sure it's a different type of racing, but he's arguably the best cyclist in the world now. If he can recover from the stress of the TDF fast enough, he'll be ready.

Maybe Absalon will race some durable tires for once and he'll be there at the front--and in the end, in Rio, too.

Don't forget about Jaroslav Kulhavy. He's peaking at the right time. His coaches obviously know what they're doing.

And hey Schurter is on a 29er now so maybe he'll gain those precious seconds back that he lost in 2012


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I know I can't watch the 2012 Olympic race live again!!! Now, if only I could fix the flux capacitor...

But by Feideaux asking his question, I got my answer also...yes, we should get to see the race live on TV or another kind of media...and you wanna know why? Because that crazy kid from Slovakia, who is on his way to get another Green Jersey and also happens to be the World Road Race Champion (I am sick and tires of hear this every day on the TdF telecast), will be there and he will create more media buzz about it...

Now, he might get his ass handed to him in a big silver plate, or he could pour some pain onto others, but he will attract more media to the event. 

Read the headlines..."Nino vs. Sagan", road vs. MTB...who is the best cyclist in the world?!?!?!! 

If only MvdP had qualified...


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

carlostruco said:


> If only MvdP had qualified...


Maybe it was those 29er tubulars MvdP was trying to ride. You know, the same ones Nino put to the side in favor of the Maxxis Aspen he's running tubeless.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Stonerider said:


> Maybe it was those 29er tubulars MvdP was trying to ride. You know, the same ones Nino put to the side in favor of the Maxxis Aspen he's running tubeless.


Probably...

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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Peter can't climb like the top climbers, though he can out sprint them for sure. 

Since he is mainly a sprinter I doubt he can compete at the top 3 in Rio. Not even Lance Dopestrong could win against the best climbers in MTB, because road and MTB require different skill sets although fairly similar. 

Also if you are familiar with periodization, you can notice Peter's goal is/was the TDF. While one month might give him some rest it won't be enough for his peak.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

TDLover said:


> Peter can't climb like the top climbers, though he can out sprint them for sure.
> 
> Since he is mainly a sprinter I doubt he can compete at the top 3 in Rio. Not even Lance Dopestrong could win against the best climbers in MTB, because road and MTB require different skill sets although fairly similar.
> 
> Also if you are familiar with periodization, you can notice Peter's goal is/was the TDF. While one month might give him some rest it won't be enough for his peak.


No offense to MTB guys, but if a hilly classics specialist or GT GC guy specifically trained for XCO length climbs, they'd probably blow their doors off.

Getting back down would be the issue.

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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> No offense to MTB guys, but if a hilly classics specialist or GT GC guy specifically trained for XCO length climbs, they'd probably blow their doors off.
> 
> Getting back down would be the issue.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Yeah, you just proved my point.

If they specifically train for XCO they aren't roadies anymore, but MTBer's. Sagan isn't training for XC races, he trained all year for TDF.

Also the guy you picture won't have the upper strength for technical climbs, those dudes are just legs.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

TDLover said:


> Yeah, you just proved my point.
> 
> If they specifically train for XCO they aren't roadies anymore, but MTBer's. Sagan isn't training for XC races, he trained all year for TDF.
> 
> Also the guy you picture won't have the upper strength for technical climbs, those dudes are just legs.


I said XCO length climbs, not XCO.

Also, there are plenty of wire-thin XCO guys and girls. Doesn't require a massive amount of upper body strength to climb well on either surface.

Mathieu Van der Poel won the 2013 Junior Worlds RR on a course well suited to hilly classics specialists. He's able to climb with world class XCO guys, despite just picking it up.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> I said XCO length climbs, not XCO.
> 
> Also, there are plenty of wire-thin XCO guys and girls. Doesn't require a massive amount of upper body strength to climb well on either surface.
> 
> Mathieu Van der Poel won the 2013 Junior Worlds RR on a course well suited to hilly classics specialists. He's able to climb with world class XCO guys, despite just picking it up.


Yet somehow, that hasn't happened, a roadie has never gotten a triple crown (Road Champ, XCO champ and Cyclocross champ).

It's pointless to keep arguing, it seems you think roadies are superior to MTBer's which is fine. I personally think both are different and you can't really compare their performance across disciplines.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

TDLover said:


> Yet somehow, that hasn't happened, a roadie has never gotten a triple crown (Road Champ, XCO champ and Cyclocross champ).
> 
> It's pointless to keep arguing, it seems you think roadies are superior to MTBer's which is fine. I personally think both are different and you can't really compare their performance across disciplines.


Uh, it happened less than two years ago. Just gave up the XCO WC stripes a couple weekends back. All in the same calendar year no less.

Or do women not count in this analysis?

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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> Uh, it happened less than two years ago. Just gave up the XCO WC stripes a couple weekends back. All in the same calendar year no less.
> 
> Or do women not count in this analysis?
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


My hats off to PFP, as far as I know she is the only one that has accomplish it.

However I don't think she considers herself a roadie, but a multi discipline rider. In fact, I think she has as many cyclocross-mtb titles as road ones.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

TDLover said:


> Yeah, you just proved my point.
> 
> If they specifically train for XCO they aren't roadies anymore, but MTBer's. Sagan isn't training for XC races, he trained all year for TDF.
> 
> Also the guy you picture won't have the upper strength for technical climbs, those dudes are just legs.


Have you seen Sagan's physique? That dude is built!!!

Now, it is true that he is no training specifically for XCO, but I agree with Le Duke. Those classics guys should fare best in a XCO race. They have short, steep and punchy climbs for breakfast and acceleration after acceleration for lunch...MTB skills? That is another story...

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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Sagan is a bit too heavy to compete for the podium in a WC XCO race. Line him up beside Nino, Julien, Kulhavy and you'll see what I mean. He would look like the Hulk standing beside them. That power is great for the classics and sprints where you're rolling on pavement and your momentum carries you so much farther than when on dirt and going over rocks and roots. Let Sagan lose 10 pounds and start training two days per week on his mountain bike in addition to his road work and it might be a different story. He has the God given talent, that's for sure.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Stonerider said:


> Sagan is a bit too heavy to compete for the podium in a WC XCO race. Line him up beside Nino, Julien, Kulhavy and you'll see what I mean. He would look like the Hulk standing beside them. That power is great for the classics and sprints where you're rolling on pavement and your momentum carries you so much farther than when on dirt and going over rocks and roots. Let Sagan lose 10 pounds and start training two days per week on his mountain bike in addition to his road work and it might be a different story. He has the God given talent, that's for sure.


He used to have green and Hulk motifs painted on his bikes during his Cannondale days...

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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Uh, it happened less than two years ago. Just gave up the XCO WC stripes a couple weekends back. All in the same calendar year no less.
> 
> Or do women not count in this analysis?
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Sorry. But if you had paying attention you would know that Pauline was a mountain bike racer who took up road racing. She did after all win the junior world MTB rider title two years in a row.

You make a lot statements about relative strength of road racers with absolutely zero data to back up your claim. Like most you really don't understand what the level is in XCO mountain bike racing.

In the last 15 years there has not been a single rider who has come from road racing to mountain biking and anything even remotely close to success. All sorts of reason for this the chief one being that somebody making 2 million on the road isn't going to take a 90% pay cut to MTB race.

But there has been mountain bike racers who have switched to road racing. Three big names come to min: Cadel Evans, Ryder Hesjedal, and Jean-Christophe Péraud. Those three won world cups and finished on the podium in Grande Tours. Looking at their success I would suspect that road racers who can do well in MTB racing are ones capable of doing well in Grand Tours.

The data that I have seen indicates that the win at a mens XCO world cup is a norm power in around 6 watts/kg for an 1:30. In road racing there is exactly zero events that have that power requirement.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Hey LMN, I see Catharine is sitting out the Canadian Nationals, is that just part of the training arc for Rio or a result of the crash in Lenzerheide.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

rockyuphill said:


> Hey LMN, I see Catharine is sitting out the Canadian Nationals, is that just part of the training arc for Rio or a result of the crash in Lenzerheide.


Training for Rio.

If she had raced nationals she would left home June 23rd and returned August 23rd. That much time on the rode is never good for form. If we lived in Eastern Canada then we would have been there, but another race 4500km from home is too much in an Olympic year. It was a tough decision to make and hopefully it pays off.


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## Haggis (Jan 21, 2004)

Sagan vs Shurter will be oarsum.


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

LMN said:


> Sorry. But if you had paying attention you would know that Pauline was a mountain bike racer who took up road racing. She did after all win the junior world MTB rider title...


Seeing that Sagan has also done this , I am still enjoying the thought of him of him lining up in Rio alongside the other champions. It will be a spectacle even without knowing his power values or w/kg because...dreams.

Interesting that your suspicions of athlete transfer omit the statistical rigour you demand from others and I see your point re: w/kg but do we know Sagan's power values? FWIW, Schurter achieved no results in the 2014 Tour de Suisse (mechanical) or Tour de Romandie (42nd), but this may just be highlighting the class of the GT riders you mentioned

Another interesting point: Sagan is listed as being a couple of kilos lighter than Kulhavy...


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## Wittgenstein's Ghost (Oct 4, 2014)

I am having a hard time believing that Lance "Dopestrong" couldn't have climbed with top XCO riders. TDF weight Lance was well over 6 watts per kg. I'm not saying he could have immediately hopped off of his Madone and onto a Superfly and immediately dominated a top race, but I certainly think the transition would have been pretty easy for him. And I'm not convinced that he couldn't have immediately dominated. That's the most dominant cyclist in history, though, and I'm not claiming that it proves some big point about roadie skills versus XCO skills. Let's just not get carried away.

Edit to add: I am extremely excited to watch Sagan, though. I don't expect him to win, but I do expect him to be very competitive.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Wittgenstein's Ghost said:


> I am having a hard time believing that Lance "Dopestrong" couldn't have climbed with top XCO riders. TDF weight Lance was well over 6 watts per kg. I'm not saying he could have immediately hopped off of his Madone and onto a Superfly and immediately dominated a top race, but I certainly think the transition would have been pretty easy for him. And I'm not convinced that he couldn't have immediately dominated. That's the most dominant cyclist in history, though, and I'm not claiming that it proves some big point about roadie skills versus XCO skills. Let's just not get carried away.
> 
> Edit to add: I am extremely excited to watch Sagan, though. I don't expect him to win, but I do expect him to be very competitive.


The climbs are totally different in XCO than on roads in most cases. It is very rare that you climb at steady state like on road. More over/under with a lot of high power output burst. You will also utilize your body to maneuver your bike, something that will add in on the effort compare to the road. Also remember that you often need to have good skills to climb fast in XCO.


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Wittgenstein's Ghost said:


> I am having a hard time believing that Lance "Dopestrong" couldn't have climbed with top XCO riders. TDF weight Lance was well over 6 watts per kg. I'm not saying he could have immediately hopped off of his Madone and onto a Superfly and immediately dominated a top race, but I certainly think the transition would have been pretty easy for him. And I'm not convinced that he couldn't have immediately dominated. That's the most dominant cyclist in history, though, and I'm not claiming that it proves some big point about roadie skills versus XCO skills. Let's just not get carried away.
> 
> Edit to add: I am extremely excited to watch Sagan, though. I don't expect him to win, but I do expect him to be very competitive.


Armstrong raced off road after his first TDF victory. Wasn't it the NORBA finals at Mt. Snow in 1999? Placed something like 6th and helped teammate Travis Brown secure the overall title, I think. I seem to remember him struggling with that course's technical features. Hardly a World Cup field though.


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

I don't think Sagan will have any problems with technical skills. How many of us can ride our road bike onto a roof rack?
I hope he can mix it up at least in the first part. It would add a considerable amount of excitement. And it is going to generate some much needed publicity for XCO.
Why isn't DH a Olympic event?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Feideaux said:


> Seeing that Sagan has also done this , I am still enjoying the thought of him of him lining up in Rio alongside the other champions. It will be a spectacle even without knowing his power values or w/kg because...dreams.
> 
> Interesting that your suspicions of athlete transfer omit the statistical rigour you demand from others and I see your point re: w/kg but do we know Sagan's power values? FWIW, Schurter achieved no results in the 2014 Tour de Suisse (mechanical) or Tour de Romandie (42nd), but this may just be highlighting the class of the GT riders you mentioned
> 
> Another interesting point: Sagan is listed as being a couple of kilos lighter than Kulhavy...


I didn't mention and Nino because he dabbled in road racing. No matter how talented they are nobody is going to have immediate success when they switch disciplines. It is quite possible that if Nino switches he could be a very good road racer (I am thinking one day hilly classics would suit him) but it would take him at least two season to develop the road specific fitness and technical and tactical skills for road racing. This has been true for all the mountain bikers who have switched.

In terms of the physical demands the biggest difference between road and mountain is the length. Mountain biking is an 1.5hrs and flat out from the gun. Road racing is 4 to 7 hrs and key moments of the race happen in the last 1hr. When you think about it those are pretty different demands and require different training.

I remember hearing stories when Michel Rasmussen first switched to the road. First climb would absolutely crush everybody, 2nd climb same as everyone, 3rd climb out the back. As a mountain biker he was trained for speed not endurance (and that was back when XCO racers were 2 1/2hrs). And yes I know we are chatting about dopers, but if you go back to the early 2000s it can't be helped.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Wittgenstein's Ghost said:


> I am having a hard time believing that Lance "Dopestrong" couldn't have climbed with top XCO riders. TDF weight Lance was well over 6 watts per kg. I'm not saying he could have immediately hopped off of his Madone and onto a Superfly and immediately dominated a top race, but I certainly think the transition would have been pretty easy for him. And I'm not convinced that he couldn't have immediately dominated. That's the most dominant cyclist in history, though, and I'm not claiming that it proves some big point about roadie skills versus XCO skills. Let's just not get carried away.
> 
> Edit to add: I am extremely excited to watch Sagan, though. I don't expect him to win, but I do expect him to be very competitive.


You have to remember in Armstrong era, everybody was faster. The mountain bikers climbed much faster then they do now.


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## tewks13 (Aug 18, 2015)

Made it to MSA tonight! Staying a mile from the track! Awesome! Can't wait for Friday to see XCO and DH practice...😎


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

LMN said:


> I didn't mention and Nino because he dabbled in road racing. No matter how talented they are nobody is going to have immediate success when they switch disciplines. It is quite possible that if Nino switches he could be a very good road racer (I am thinking one day hilly classics would suit him) but it would take him at least two season to develop the road specific fitness and technical and tactical skills for road racing. This has been true for all the mountain bikers who have switched.
> 
> In terms of the physical demands the biggest difference between road and mountain is the length. Mountain biking is an 1.5hrs and flat out from the gun. Road racing is 4 to 7 hrs and key moments of the race happen in the last 1hr. When you think about it those are pretty different demands and require different training.
> 
> I remember hearing stories when Michel Rasmussen first switched to the road. First climb would absolutely crush everybody, 2nd climb same as everyone, 3rd climb out the back. As a mountain biker he was trained for speed not endurance (and that was back when XCO racers were 2 1/2hrs). And yes I know we are chatting about dopers, but if you go back to the early 2000s it can't be helped.


I would like to see the power output files from the time trials.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

tewks13 said:


> Made it to MSA tonight! Staying a mile from the track! Awesome! Can't wait for Friday to see XCO and DH practice...


Pictures!!!

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## tewks13 (Aug 18, 2015)

carlostruco said:


> Pictures!!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I will do my best. What an incredible area....


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Yeah, i kinda agree with LMN...Schurter and them are very seasoned into mtb racing whereas Sagan is just getting back into... in fitness style and race strategy. 

With that I have a hard time seeing Sagan being a podium contender as I see Schurter, Absalon, and Kulhavy (who seems to wake up for specific races) being the primary contenders. 

I like Sagan, and I think he'll be top 10 and even top5. You never really know. 

Also even though Nino didn't have "results" in the tour he did, i think he did pretty well, and he also is not really experienced in road racing either 

Another comparison is Jolanda Neff's efforts in road racing which i think are very good. I remember the Worlds Race last year, rooting for her and Pauline, sad that they werent in the breakaway group for majority of race, but damn proud how her and Pauline were in the final sprint group across the line.

Also love Neffs full finger gloves in the Peleton hehe!



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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

zephxiii said:


> Also even though Nino didn't have "results" in the tour he did, i think he did pretty well, and he also is not really experienced in road racing either.


Not worth reading much into Nino's time on the road. Road racing is a team sport, not like MTB where everyone's job is to earn the best possible results for themselves.

We have no idea what instructions were given to Nino by his team e.g. "Take a few pulls if you seem to be in a position to do so, but otherwise don't be the newb trying to get in at the pointy end of the race and take down half the peloton in the process." We know Nino's handling skills are good (on dirt for sure) but that doesn't necessarily translate to being pack-savvy within a large pro peloton, at least not without more experience - exactly as you described in your post.

It was a diversion for Nino, and to some degree probably a publicity stunt for the team and sponsors, not a serious foray into road racing.


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## kylepeveto (Apr 25, 2006)

I like the commentary on the XC races. I feel lucky just to be able to watch the race from start to finish for free online. 
However, I laugh every time Bart Brentjens says "root trees" when he's talking about tree roots. 
I'm the stereotypical American who cannot fluently speak another language, so I have no room to criticize his English, which is very good. But it's funny.


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## Loch (Apr 29, 2011)

kylepeveto said:


> I like the commentary on the XC races. I feel lucky just to be able to watch the race from start to finish for free online.
> However, I laugh every time Bart Brentjens says "root trees" when he's talking about tree roots.
> I'm the stereotypical American who cannot fluently speak another language, so I have no room to criticize his English, which is very good. But it's funny.


Lately I've been telling people that ask me about trail conditions, that they are "good rideable".


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## Eric Marshall (Nov 28, 2012)

kylepeveto said:


> I like the commentary on the XC races. I feel lucky just to be able to watch the race from start to finish for free online.
> However, I laugh every time Bart Brentjens says "root trees" when he's talking about tree roots.
> I'm the stereotypical American who cannot fluently speak another language, so I have no room to criticize his English, which is very good. But it's funny.


I caught that too. During one of his exchanges with Rob, Rob kept saying "tree roots", but Bart just kept on saying "root trees", like he wasn't even listening to Rob's gentle nudging


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## TwincamRob (Sep 20, 2014)

kylepeveto said:


> I like the commentary on the XC races.


I always thought he was saying 'attack the feed zone' but finally after watching about 10 races realized he was saying 'tech and feed zone'


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

I like Bart, I find myself adopting his speech patterns. I try to be really concentrate on the descents.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

TwincamRob said:


> I always thought he was saying 'attack the feed zone' but finally after watching about 10 races realized he was saying 'tech and feed zone'


I first thought he was saying Tekken feed zone. It took me a while to realize he was saying "tech and".


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

Circlip said:


> Not worth reading much into Nino's time on the road. Road racing is a team sport, not like MTB where everyone's job is to earn the best possible results for themselves.
> 
> We have no idea what instructions were given to Nino by his team e.g. "Take a few pulls if you seem to be in a position to do so, but otherwise don't be the newb trying to get in at the pointy end of the race and take down half the peloton in the process." We know Nino's handling skills are good (on dirt for sure) but that doesn't necessarily translate to being pack-savvy within a large pro peloton, at least not without more experience - exactly as you described in your post.
> 
> It was a diversion for Nino, and to some degree probably a publicity stunt for the team and sponsors, not a serious foray into road racing.


According to Neil Stephens, the DS for the Orica in the tour de Romandie, it looked to be be the opposite: they were happy for him to attack and get into the break:

ORICA BikeExchange Cycling Australia : News : ORICA-GreenEDGE Animates Tour de Suisse Stage Three

The stint with Orica always looked to me like an Olympic athlete with a multi-year strategy experimenting with including road racing into his schedule, but with the safety net of doing it in non-Olympic year.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Definitely a smaller field in the Elite women (45) and men (65) than usual, but still some decent talent has made the trip to MSA in both categories. Only an hour away to the Women's start.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Wow, that was a great women's race. A great result for the Canadian fans.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Feideaux said:


> According to Neil Stephens, the DS for the Orica in the tour de Romandie, it looked to be be the opposite: they were happy for him to attack and get into the break:
> 
> ORICA BikeExchange Cycling Australia : News : ORICA-GreenEDGE Animates Tour de Suisse Stage Three
> 
> The stint with Orica always looked to me like an Olympic athlete with a multi-year strategy experimenting with including road racing into his schedule, but with the safety net of doing it in non-Olympic year.


And to add, I believe Nino wanted to do it for personal reasons, as in it was something he always wanted to do. He had to give up a WC round for it which cost him the points race for the year.

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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Remarkable women race at MSA, congratulations to Catherine on a well deserved first place. Emily did great as well snatching that last third place from Annika, who was shown really struggling at the end of the race.

On the men side, Absalon had an easy run to first place without Nino there to battle it out. Funny how Nino posted on his Instagram a photo where he was laying on bed watching the Olympic women road race and the UCI XC World cup simultaneously, same as bunch of us, I bet.


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

Awesome women's race, men's was a bit blah.

How about Jolanda's 8th in the olympic RR? Pretty beast!


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

khardrunner14 said:


> Awesome women's race, men's was a bit blah.
> 
> How about Jolanda's 8th in the olympic RR? Pretty beast!


That was indeed a good finish considering she was in the second chase group which was really close to the first one. I have to confess though, I expected her to finish better than 8th, same for PFP.

Don't mark my words, but I think we won't see a top 3 finish for Neff or PFP on XC race.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm stoked for Jolanda's 8th too! 

Wished Pauline was up there with her. I watched the majority of the race at the airport and pretty sure Neff was hiding in the pack the whole time staying fresh, i rarely saw her. Pauline was visible a number of times. 

What an awesome effort from Abbot, sucks she ran out of steam right at the end though. 

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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

spsoon said:


> I like Bart, I find myself adopting his speech patterns. I try to be really concentrate on the descents.


Just be careful of the boompy descents.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

khardrunner14 said:


> Awesome women's race, men's was a bit blah.


Yeah, the woman's races have been very exciting with all of the lead changes and different race winners for sure.

However, I didn't fine the men's race to be boring at all. It is quite interesting that when Schurter and Kulhavy aren't there Absalon tours around for the first 3/4 of the race and in the last two laps more or less rips like normal. He is 35 years old and still killing it. Amazing the depth his guy has. The other racers are very good, but just don't have the abilities of Absalon, Kulhavy, and definitely not even close to Schurter. Absolan is a better racer when Schurter is there to push him. It is going to be an interesting Oly race and the finals in XCO in a few weeks.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Here are the Redbull.tv links for the races from Mont Ste Anne

Women's XC Race
UCI Mountain Bike World Cup | UCI Mountain Bike World Cup 2016 | Mont-Sainte-Anne, Canada | Red Bull TV

Men's XC Race
UCI Mountain Bike World Cup | UCI Mountain Bike World Cup 2016 | Mont-Sainte-Anne, Canada | Red Bull TV

Downhill Races
UCI Mountain Bike World Cup | UCI Mountain Bike World Cup 2016 | Mont-Sainte-Anne, Canada | Red Bull TV

Seeing Julien Absalon at Mont Ste Anne it should make for an interesting Olympic XC race as he was strong. The Olympic XC race is clearly going to be a three way fight between Nino Schurter, Julien Absalon and Jaroslav Kulhavy. Barring bad luck or mechanicals I'll be amazed if anyone else gets a look in for the medal positions.

Jolanda Neff did well at the women's Olympic Road Race on Sunday. If you saw her on the final climb she was in the chase group and finished with the second group of favourites just behind the medallists. She seemed to be using a lower gear than anyone else up the climb, revving highly. It was a shame they didn't show any of Jolanda Neff's group on the final descent. I'd have liked to have seen her skills on the descent for comparison with the other riders.

The crash by Annemiek Van Vleuten was awful as she went straight into that massive curbstone head on. Apparently she has three spinal fractures, severe concussion and is in intensive care. It could have been a lot worse

You can see it here (don't watch if squeamish)

Amateurvideo laat zien: Van Vleuten moest lang wachten op hulp | Olympische Spelen | De Morgen

There was an interesting article about Mara Abbott, the American rider who almost won but was caught just before the line.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ling-still-faces-an-uphill-struggle-giro-rosa

.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Feideaux said:


> According to Neil Stephens, the DS for the Orica in the tour de Romandie, it looked to be be the opposite: they were happy for him to attack and get into the break:
> 
> ORICA BikeExchange Cycling Australia : News : ORICA-GreenEDGE Animates Tour de Suisse Stage Three


Giving Nino team orders to attack and bridge up to the leader IS effectively asking him to burn himself taking pulls up ahead so that other riders on his team can try for results, and IS keeping him out of the scrum of the main peloton when the race was getting to the pointy end, by taking him out of the main group and putting him into a solo or small group situation that is probably more accustomed to the type of road riding he is used to.


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

Fantastic women's race!!! For a short time there in the middle of the race it looked like Annika might come back and challenge for the lead. Great to see Catharine and GRD in such fine form. And Emily in the final lap - great composure up L'Enfer, and brilliant decision to just get off and run the descent to finally make the pass for 3rd.

I do wonder why the U23s weren't pulled when they were well outside the 80%. I know it's pretty pointless to have a separate race tacked on at the end of the day that people don't stay to watch - outside of Europe the fields are so small. But if they're going to race in with the elites they need to make sure they're not interfering with that race. They seemed to be pulling elites but not U23s (who had the 1-hundred plates, so easy to tell apart).

From memory they always used to race with the elites, and they got pulled based on the elite leaders which kept the track clear. What we see on TV is only a small piece of the chaos that goes on through the field and the race. A bit strange that the same problems didn't appear at the end of the race in Cairns - I presume they adopted a strategy to pull everyone to keep the track clear.

Time to go and finish watching the men's race!


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Especially as the U-23 women were only racing 5 laps, and yet the winner was just 12 minutes ahead of the Elite women leader. Considering there were only 16 U-23 women entries they were definitely a bit of a mobile chicane on the climbs for the top 5 Elites.


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

Circlip said:


> Giving Nino team orders to attack and bridge up to the leader IS effectively asking him to burn himself taking pulls up ahead so that other riders on his team can try for results, and IS keeping him out of the scrum of the main peloton when the race was getting to the pointy end, by taking him out of the main group and putting him into a solo or small group situation that is probably more accustomed to the type of road riding he is used to.


Which orders are you referring to? None are mentioned. Anywhere.

Back on topic, what is genuinely interesting is that most discussion re XC vs road tend to have an easier time accepting female athletes succeeding in both whereas suggesting a male can do it causes hysteria.

Obviously Prevot has done it, but remember when Vos was racing WC events as preparation for Rio? General consensus was "this is going to be exciting" rather than "never in a million years will this work"


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

So...

Besides the usual suspects for Rio, any dark horse come to mind? Like Fontana in London...

For me, the women's race is much more harder to predict than the mens race. When on form, there are more girls with a possibility of a medal compared to the big three on the mens side. 


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Feideaux said:


> Which orders are you referring to? None are mentioned. Anywhere.


I *think* you are saying that you believe Nino may have had a green light from the team to make his own tactical decisions in the heat of the race. If so, I will have to agree to disagree, as I believe it would have resulted from if/then tactics decided by the team at their pre-stage meeting, or else communicated to him during the stage. Not a problem with me if you think otherwise and I don't expect you to change your mind, just don't expect me to agree.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

NordieBoy said:


> Just be careful of the boompy descents.


It is.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

TDLover said:


> Remarkable women race at MSA, congratulations to Catherine on a well deserved first place. Emily did great as well snatching that last third place from Annika, who was shown really struggling at the end of the race.


Batty seems to post really consistent lap times, and looks really fresh/fast/composed on the last lap. I wonder if she needs to bring the pain a little more to get a better position earlier in the race.


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

spsoon said:


> It is.


As well, yes.


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## tewks13 (Aug 18, 2015)

briscoelab said:


> As well, yes.


"Seems to be like that..."


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Not World Cup related, but Todd Wells won the LV100...against the USA Cannondale- Drapac Racing Team!!!

Good to see those guys out there in the dirt...


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## Commonaeros (May 28, 2015)

What happened to Jeremiah and his marginal gains?
I thought the whole team were going sub 6 hours


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

carlostruco said:


> Not World Cup related, but Todd Wells won the LV100...against the USA Cannondale- Drapac Racing Team!!!
> 
> Good to see those guys out there in the dirt...


He should of won running that sweet 2017 Scott Scale RC. For the life of me, I don't know why Joe Dombrowski was running that full-suspension Cannondale on a course like Leadville. Todd's bike was probably 3 pounds lighter and he had more in the tank at the end...plus he was running those sweet mini aerobars.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

carlostruco said:


> Not World Cup related, but Todd Wells won the LV100...against the USA Cannondale- Drapac Racing Team!!!
> 
> Good to see those guys out there in the dirt...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well.... There a reason why lot's of road guys show up for Leadville.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Stonerider said:


> He should of won running that sweet 2017 Scott Scale RC. For the life of me, I don't know why Joe Dombrowski was running that full-suspension Cannondale on a course like Leadville. Todd's bike was probably 3 pounds lighter and he had more in the tank at the end...plus he was running those sweet mini aerobars.


I'm guessing he ran the FS because he's heading to the Vuelta in a few days.

Less stress on the body.

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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Leadville 100 2016 race report with some pictures:

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/08/13/durangos-todd-wells-leadville-100-win/

.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Olympic MTB course on fire :/

Canadian Cyclist - Daily News


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Was Nino doing laps?


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Probably these guys:


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Interesting to see Flo Vogel, etc. at Windham this past weekend. 

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## iluvmotocross (May 24, 2012)

Le Duke said:


> Interesting to see Flo Vogel, etc. at Windham this past weekend.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Yea he didn't make the Olympic team so he's been kinda touring the US.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Swiss team is gonna be a hard one to make!!

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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Excited for today's race!! Where can we watch it? I know u can on NBC olympic website but i don't have a login. 

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## madfella (May 23, 2016)

Not World Cup, but anyone watch the mens olympics? What did you think of the race, some crazy results... Villegas coming 5th ?! (a minute ahead of Absalon)


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

madfella said:


> Not World Cup, but anyone watch the mens olympics? What did you think of the race, some crazy results... Villegas coming 5th ?! (a minute ahead of Absalon)


Over 150 posts and counting on this thread link below active near the top of the XC Racing forum topic list;

http://forums.mtbr.com/xc-racing-training/gold-silver-bronze-1017849.html


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

With Absalon's current World Cup point lead of 160 points, even if Nino wins Andorra, Absalon only needs to finish 9th or better to take the overall World Cup this year. 

Annika has a less commanding lead, only 56 points to Catharine, so she has to stay at the pointy end of the field to hold on to her lead. If Catharine ends up leading the race, Annika has to finish 2nd at the very least. If it is a mixed up field like it often is after an Olympic race, there will be people at Specialized and Luna pushing buttons on calculators like mad to see how far they each need to be ahead of the other to take the overall.


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## whybotherme (Sep 12, 2008)

rockyuphill said:


> Annika has a less commanding lead, only 56 points to Catharine, so she has to stay at the pointy end of the field to hold on to her lead. If Catharine ends up leading the race, Annika has to finish 2nd at the very least. If it is a mixed up field like it often is after an Olympic race, there will be people at Specialized and Luna pushing buttons on calculators like mad to see how far they each need to be ahead of the other to take the overall.


i hope Cpen pulls the WC overall to go with her Olympic medal. would make a nice capstone on a truly amazing career, no?


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Hope Langvald can take the overall, the amazing form at the beginning of the year and always attacking. She has done a suberb tranform to XCO from XCM.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Don't let Annika see you say that, she's always been XC not just Marathon.



plupp said:


> Hope Langvald can take the overall, the amazing form at the beginning of the year and always attacking. She has done a suberb tranform to XCO from XCM.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

In my opinion, besides the royal rumble at Albstadt, women's races have been more fun than men's. More unpredictable and more drama!!! I hoping Sunday's final round does not disappoint an already stellar season!


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

rockyuphill said:


> Don't let Annika see you say that, she's always been XC not just Marathon.


If I remember correct she mainly focused on Marathon at the beginning. But could be a mixup in my head.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Peaking: UCI World Cup | 72 Hours with Jenny Rissveds | Red Bull TV

25 min of Jenny Rissveds


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

She's done very well at XCM racing, but she gave Rob and Bart a lot of flack for calling her a Marathon racer doing well in XC.



plupp said:


> If I remember correct she mainly focused on Marathon at the beginning. But could be a mixup in my head.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

plupp said:


> Peaking: UCI World Cup | 72 Hours with Jenny Rissveds | Red Bull TV
> 
> 25 min of Jenny Rissveds


Great video! She has such personality and spirit. She will undoubtably go very far, not only as an amazing mountain bike racer, but as a person as well.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

plupp said:


> Peaking: UCI World Cup | 72 Hours with Jenny Rissveds | Red Bull TV
> 
> 25 min of Jenny Rissveds


Great video, she is such an amazing athlete and seems like an equally good person. I'm definitely rooting for her on next year World Cup.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

beastmaster said:


> Great video! She has such personality and spirit. She will undoubtably go very far, not only as an amazing mountain bike racer, but as a person as well.


She is a very worthy Olympic Champion. Her win at the Olympics is even more impressive when you consider the massive crash she had in training a couple of days before hand.

Talk about getting it done despite adversity.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Looks like Absalon mis-timed his peak, or just didn't get it right somehow. 

Amazing ride for him today. Rumor has it he's retiring now? If so, going out on top isn't a bad way to do it.

Also, and only related because it's world class cycling:

You guys should tune into the Vuelta RIGHT NOW. Holy crap. Best road bike racing of the year, aside from maybe the last 50km of the Olympic RR.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Looks like Absalon mis-timed his peak, or just didn't get it right somehow.
> 
> Amazing ride for him today. Rumor has it he's retiring now? If so, going out on top isn't a bad way to do it.


There is lots of rumors about retirement but Absalon is racing at least another 2 years. Catharinenis also racing at least one more year.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Catharine 1st overall and Emily manages a 3rd overall in that tight battle for the World Cup title. That's a lot of maple leaves in the top 3 of the World Cup this season.

In the end, even without the flat in this race, Schurter lost the season title to Absalon by skipping MSA.


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## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

Both winners Jolanda and Julien didn't do well in Rio, could have something to do with that. But good racing. results etc as always - UCI MTB WORLD CUP Andorra - XCO - DHI / World Cup - MTBCrossCountry


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> Looks like Absalon mis-timed his peak, or just didn't get it right somehow.
> 
> Amazing ride for him today. Rumor has it he's retiring now? If so, going out on top isn't a bad way to do it.
> 
> ...


I've always said the Vuelta is by far the most exiting...all f those who missed out in the TdF and the Giro ride angry...and thats fun racing!!!

Also, great ride by Absalon...also Cink seems to like Andorra a lot...

Congrats to Mrs. Pendrel on a superb season!!!

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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> Looks like Absalon mis-timed his peak, or just didn't get it right somehow.
> 
> Amazing ride for him today. Rumor has it he's retiring now? If so, going out on top isn't a bad way to do it.
> 
> ...






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154446986093427



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## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

Some lap time stats from the last 2016 world cup... UCI MTB WORLD CUP Andorra - XCO - DHI / World Cup Statistics - MTBCrossCountry


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Gunn-Rita really hit a wall on the last two laps. That's not like her; usually she has very consistent pacing. I thought she had the race in the bag.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Next big vendor (Merida) out of the circus. Sad to see this development with no team from Giant and Merida.

Should we guess the VW withdraw their support due to the scandal with their cars?


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

plupp said:


> Should we guess the VW withdraw their support due to the scandal with their cars?


It might be, but it certainly won't be due their gas scandal. I would say xc racing is more or less Euro thing, and this scandal was big news for day or two over here, and then it all went quiet... really really quiet. I guess too much money involved and too big players would be hurt (not VW but Germany in general) so all went by like nothing would happen. So even if VW goes out of mtb, it certainly won't be due any exhaust problems


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

primoz said:


> It might be, but it certainly won't be due their gas scandal. I would say xc racing is more or less Euro thing, and this scandal was big news for day or two over here, and then it all went quiet... really really quiet. I guess too much money involved and too big players would be hurt (not VW but Germany in general) so all went by like nothing would happen. So even if VW goes out of mtb, it certainly won't be due any exhaust problems


If you look at the numbers at VW you know they got hurt big, really big and still uncertain outcome in many countries.

Anyway, too bad not having them in the WC next year


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

There is something I don't really understand: why is the World Cup Overalll so underrated? Ok, Olympic year and all. But, since I started following XC World Cup, I've seen Nino skip WC races to race in the tarmac (?!). So, why is the World Cup Overall so unimportant?! If it weren't for this forum, it would have been really difficult for me to find even out who won this year!!!


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Pinkbike have a competition to guess the best 5 minute power of several of the XC racers from the final World Cup at Vallnord:

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/stages-cycling-uci-wc-xc-vallnord-power-competition-2016.html

_ "At World Cup finals in Vallnord, Andorra, Stages Cycing collected rider power meter data, this time, looking at the riders' maximum 5-minute power. With regards to cross-country racing a rider's 5 min max power is a parallel indicator to his or her VO2max, which in turn is an excellent metric for assessing a cross-country racer's performance capacity. Match the rider with their correct 5-minute maximum power for a chance to a Stages Power meter of your own."_










It's quite an interesting one as the wording isn't 100% clear as to whether this is race power from the Vallnord race (on an offroad circuit at altitude that didn't have an extended climb) or all time 5 minute peak power.

You can look at Victor Koretzky's power file on Strava for the race on 04 September 2016, which gives a decent indication of what a ballpark figure should be for 5 minute power on that course so it might be all time power that they're referring to.

https://www.strava.com/activities/707309331/overview

.


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

Cool contest, for my part I understood it as 5-Min max power during the race. 

Since I think the track does not have a 5 min climb and altitude is quite high(1800m) I went with 219 for Catherine.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

TDLover said:


> Cool contest, for my part I understood it as 5-Min max power during the race.
> 
> Since I think the track does not have a 5 min climb and altitude is quite high(1800m) I went with 219 for Catherine.


Good pick.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Wow, big difference between women and men


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

If you've been following the "Fancy Bear" hacking saga (a group of Russian hackers hacked the WADA TUE (Therapeutic Use Exemption) database and have been releasing parts of it for high profile athletes) there are some mountain bikers in the latest batch, including Catharine Pendrel and Nino Schurter:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/09/news/cancellara-schurter-added-list-tue-leaks_421393

https://fancybear.net/pages/5.html

Catharine Pendrel's leaked documents show a single TUE for strong painkillers (for the surgery on her hand earlier this year), nothing else.

Nino Schurter's leaked documents show TUEs for some asthma inhalers.

What's interesting about these leaks (which appear to be motivated to try and deflect attention away from the scandal of widespread state sponsored doping of Russian athletes back onto Western athletes) is that if anything it shows that there are a lot less TUE's being given out than thought.

The unintended consequence is that I'd say this leak actually works to increase the credibility of the athletes who have had their TUEs leaked, rather than decreasing it.

For reference:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/13/s...pics-2014.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=1

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/18/wada-report-russia-sochi-winter-olympics

.


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## plupp (Sep 19, 2011)

Look at the regular use of prednisolone by Froome. My guess is that we are only seeing fragments and not the whole extract per athlete.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

The stuff that Wiggins and Froome used can strip fat off of you like nothing short of lipo.

Absolutely ridiculous that that stuff is allowed, ever.

If you're sick or injured enough to use it, you shouldn't be racing. Period.

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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> The stuff that Wiggins and Froome used can strip fat off of you like nothing short of lipo.
> 
> Absolutely ridiculous that that stuff is allowed, ever.
> 
> ...


Are we both talking about Prednisolone? AFAIK it's a gluticosteroid and is known to cause weight gain? I've taken it before for a bruised tailbone.

BTW I've lost 45lbs the hard way, although the weight loss that Wiggo underwent for his TDF win was borderline starvation.

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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

No. Kenacort/triamcinolone.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/millar-says-wiggins-tue-drugs-should-be-banned/

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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

It is kinda sad how teams play the system to gain an "unfair advantage", those TUE are seriously at a grey area. 

Apparently to be a champion you must have some sickness. Is there a TDF winner in the last years that hasn't been on at least one TUE during the race?


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

chomxxo said:


> Are we both talking about Prednisolone? AFAIK it's a gluticosteroid and is known to cause weight gain? I've taken it before for a bruised tailbone.
> 
> BTW I've lost 45lbs the hard way, although the weight loss that Wiggo underwent for his TDF win was borderline starvation.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Listening to Froome and Hamilton's books...their short mentions of the suffering to keep weight to a minimum was hilarious in that I could relate from my own attempts.

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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

I see no point to TUE's.

Why is it OK to treat one disadvantage that is mostly genetic (asthma, allergies, etc), yet not OK to treat another disadvantage that is mostly genetic (Aerobic Capacity)?

It makes no sense to me. 

The quickest and biggest improvement to my race performance came when I made a concerted effort to lose 8 lb. I'm sure taking the drug that Froome, Wiggins, and others used would have helped with this effort, and certainly made me more competitive. My gut would have confirmed to me that it is, in fact, cheating the system. I would never do that.

I raced in the Pro class (not well, admittedly), but crap like this has made me want to avoid it. Seeing that Catherine's TUE looks legit, and she competes at such a high level gives me hope.

Do I think TUEs should go away? Probably. Even if restrictions like being being granted only once, for a short duration, are put in place, I still think it will get abused and will be used to give advantage to those athletes who can bring more attention and $ into the sport.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Like I said:

If some one is "sick" or "injured" enough for them to require some of these meds, they shouldn't be racing.

Make the testing thresholds such that if they've used any of the substance within a certain time window, they test positive, and it's an automatic suspension. And make the window long enough that any accrued benefits dissipate. They regain lost fat, VO2 or HCT comes back down, etc.



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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Like I said:
> 
> If some one is "sick" or "injured" enough for them to require some of these meds, they shouldn't be racing.
> 
> ...


Obviously I am coming from a bias position, however TUE's have their time and place.

In Catharine's case during a surgery they gave a pain killer that was banned in competition but OK out of competition. She sat out the race right after the surgery, because she was not well enough to race. But by Sea Otter she was healthy and ready to race. The single shot pain killer they gave in surgery had no impact on her recovery what so ever.

Catharine probably didn't need to apply for the TUE. The life span of the pain killer is so short that it was in likelihood not in her system by the time she was in competition. But she follows the rules and reported it to CCES and asked what to do about the up-coming competitions. They gave her a 1 month TUE just in case there was any residue left in her system.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Pain killers for post-op pain and what Wiggins was using are in different leagues.

What Wiggins used has demonstrable performance enhancing benefits. Per David Millar, it cuts through fat like a hot knife through butter.

What your wife used, and how she used it? No. Her TUE was for a diagnosed, one time medical issue. A broken thumb. That's legit.








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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Pain killers for post-op pain and what Wiggins was using are in different leagues.
> 
> What Wiggins used has demonstrable performance enhancing benefits. Per David Millar, it cuts through fat like a hot knife through butter.
> 
> ...


Wiggen's abused and cheated the TUE system. He is a cheat. But don't throw out the TUE system because of cheats. Honest athlete's needs support. Honest clean athletes have to live with a lot **** because of cheaters, do you have any idea on what a pain in the ass the whereabouts system is? Honest athlete's deserve support when they need something for medical reasons.

If you look at all the released TUE's of the cyclist Wiggens is the only one who came out looking bad.


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

I wonder about some of these TUE's. Can someone enlighten me?
Years ago a world champion from here got nabbed for not getting a TUE's for his exercised induced asthma. I see that this is what Nino has also. I have friends with Asthma and they are not athletes. Is this actually a real thing? Why should you get a TUES for it? What is the difference between exercise Asthma and a low Hemocrit. Can I get a TUE's for EPO?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

rlee said:


> I wonder about some of these TUE's. Can someone enlighten me?
> Years ago a world champion from here got nabbed for not getting a TUE's for his exercised induced asthma. I see that this is what Nino has also. I have friends with Asthma and they are not athletes. Is this actually a real thing? Why should you get a TUES for it? What is the difference between exercise Asthma and a low Hemocrit. Can I get a TUE's for EPO?


I have never worked with an Elite athlete with Asthma so I am by no means an expert on this and everything I am going to say needs to preferenced with "I believe"

Current I believe most asthma medications do not require a TUE. That is why with all these released files you see that TUE's are for a couple of years ago. I also believe that there research that shows asthma medications have no benefit if you don't have asthma. And it was this research that made asthma medications legal.

Asthma is different because for some with Asthma they suddenly go from being able to breath just fine to having a lot of difficultly breath, they are in medical distress. Medication can prevent a medical emergency.

I suspect that most of the TUE's in the past are for "just in case". Somebody like Nino in certain environmental conditions may have an asthma attack and require the use of medication. He got a TUE to make sure that if that happens he doesn't get in trouble.

Having a TUE for something and actually using it all the time are not the same thing.

Of course I am sure there are people who are taking as that asthma medication when they don't need. But I believe the studies show that it actually doesn't help them.


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

But we are not talking about asthma, we are talking about exercise induced asthma. Taking a medication that can open up your airways would be a advantage, and don't some come with a steroid in the inhaler? The people I have talked to only seem to have a problem after becoming a elite? 
I am not a Doc and don't know, and the rules are made by someone smarter than me but it doesn't reason to ban someone for smoking weed and not a inhaler. And I do think they should be banned for smoking weed.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Seems like there are far more asthmatics at the pointy end of elite cycling than the general pop.

I find that a bit questionable. That so many of them have a respiratory defect. 

I mean, doesn't everyone have lung problems at extreme efforts? Why do they get a pass?

I remember Froome taking a few puffs, sitting behind the Sky train, at the bottom of the last climb during a stage race. At the time, I thought it was crazy that someone with a respiratory problem would be capable of laying the wood to other world class riders. Still do.

My blood doesn't deliver sufficient O2 to my brain/body when I'm riding at 10,000ft in CO each summer. Why can't I take EPO? I could argue it's a health risk, too.

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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I've had asthma since I was a kid and I think I can speak to a few issues you all are raising. I took albuterol for years but my doctor gave me Dulera (mometasone furoate / formoterol fumarate dihydrate) when I took a year off last year, got fat, and my condition got considerably worse. As I lost weight got back in shape, my asthma has improved.

He also gave me Singulair (montelukast) which, when I did start training again, I was shocked to discover gave me wild heart palpitations. I discontinued using it immediately. In hot summer air I thrive. I may be able to race without the inhaler; I try to train without it. One thing about albuterol is if you use it too often, it is less effective. 

About it and my performance (or Nino's): I doubt that it improves our performance, but rather it prevents it from being really bad, life threatening, even. I think it's pretty sick that somebody would take asthma medication that you don't need; anything that affects your respiratory system seems very risky to me.


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## XCKiwi (Jan 26, 2010)

A real key point when it comes to asthma prevention and treatment, especially when it comes to effect on performance, is the method of delivery. Using an inhaler as the method of delivery you simply cannot achieve performance enhancement beyond what your body is capable of when not affected by asthma. In other words, a non-asthmatic won't gain performance benefits from sucking back the contents of an entire inhaler (but depending on what it is might end up feeling a bit off with elevated HR and/or dry mouth, etc if they go that crazy). Not all steroids are equal. When someone says using an inhaler levels the playing field they are right - it allows for a level of performance possible if asthma wasn't present. It does not allow for performance above that level. I regularly use steroid eye-drops - I can assure you it does nothing for my performance (dagnabbit!).

WRT exercise induced asthma - yes, it's a thing. There is a simple diagnostic test that can be completed in the field that separates it from a diagnosis of lack of fitness. The reason there appears to be over-representation of athletes diagnosed with it is because they do the things (high intensity exercise for the length of time it takes to come on - usually 6-10 minutes) that cause it to become a factor for them. If you sit on the couch all the time you could have it, but you'll never see a Dr for it because you'll never know.

One thing that really strikes me about Bradley Wiggins' use of TUEs and the reasons given is that if he really suffers so badly from asthma and allergies it is incredible that he could rise to that level to begin with. These treatments really are a last resort, and it's unlikely that he developed these symptoms and conditions so severely so late. Nothing about it adds up in a legitimate way.

BTW, I have exercise induced asthma and significant allergies. When I get hit with combinations of them I am completely floored. Next time I'm asking for some of the good stuff Wiggo uses - maybe there is hope for a return to competitive racing after all! I jest - they need to shut this abuse of performance enhancing substances down.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

I have a bit (or rather say a lot) more interest in sport I'm coming from (xc skiing) then mtb. And considering asthma is obviously more regular at xc skiing then in mtb, there's a bit more info about this. Especially as in last few months there's quite big scandal going on in worlds leading nation in xc ski, Norway. 
Making long story short (you can read yourself about Sundby and pretty much whole Norway national XC ski team), thing is, with high enough dosages asthma medications have performance enhancing effect even for people with no asthma (there are researches proving this). Plus they can act as masking agent. And based on latest things (including my experiences when I was still in xc ski world cup in one or the other role), there's a lot of TUEs for asthma, even if people have no sign of asthma, and there's also quite lot of nebulazier use with athletes with no sign of asthma. 
Things are going to change a bit in near future, as WADA is considering putting limits on this, but honestly I have no idea if this will effect mtb too or it's just for xc skiing.


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