# Thoughts on Bike shop practice.



## Max_winner1 (Feb 11, 2004)

I walk into this bike shop (high end one with expensive things), with my Downhill bike asking them if I could buy 2 feet of shifting cable housing. They cut me the length and I proceed to put it on the bike stand they have on the open floor. Guy says you have to take your bike off the bike stand. "You can't install it here, it is for customers". I asked him well If I paid for this then I would be a paying customer and I should be able to install it. His response was "If you want me to install it for you then sure but the bike stands are not used for people to install their parts". So I ask him how much for "you" to install the housing from my shifter to top tube socket he said 10 bucks. Mind you I got 2 ft because it was just a little over 1 ft, but I was not going to ask him if he could trim it to size as that would be asking him to actually do work. 
Last thing he said was "Sorry dude bike shop is in the business to make money".
It is kinda funny because they usually do the odd jobs for people who walk in with out charging. Like minor derailleur adjustments, inflating tires, installing purchased parts, a little lube here and there ect... 

Usually Bike shops are good in these area's but this one was really? I said no thanks gave back the housing and walked out. Took my business to a rickety old bike shop that has been around for 30 yrs. Old guy had no problem helping me cut it to length and me doing the rest of the work. Hell saved my self 12 bucks. 

What are your thoughts on this.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Max_winner1 said:


> I walk into this bike shop..............
> 
> What are your thoughts on this.


Here are mine-

Shop space is valuable and when a shop gets busy they need every square foot of it. I am a softie and learned the hard way (as usual) that most folks are far from pro by letting people borrow a few tools and perform simple jobs such as changing a flat. 30 minutes later, with greasy parts strewn all over the floor and customers tripping over them I very much regretted my generosity. This was by no means an isolated incident, and it took many, many lessons on my part before I mended my ways.

You may well be able to change a cable in 5 minutes but then again it may take 30 or more, and additional tool loans, and questions..... how is the shop owner to know?

I had a stand in front of the counter at my shop too but it was for evaluating customer repairs. There may have been an empty stand or two in the back but chances are within 5 minutes they would be full.

$10 is totally reasonable to size a cable, install it, and adjust the gears.

It's great that you found an old guy to help you out but chances are he wasn't too pressed for time. The guy in the shop was right, they're there to make money. Otherwise they _won't_ be there.

I'm not such an old curmudgeon and I've helped out plenty of people in my day but I had a (mostly) firm policy about customers doing repairs inside, and we charged $ to do work.


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## ZmyDust (May 13, 2011)

Sounds to me the guy wasn't to interested in building their customer base. A good experience there and maybe later you'd come back and buy a $5k bike, but I'm assuming you won't do that now. Who knows maybe he's got so many people lined up at the door to buy those expensive bikes he doesn't have stand time for somebody like you only paying a few bikes. I've been in the service based sales industry long enough to know that there's alot of people there that just don't belong. Note I've never worked in the bike industry so this is outside looking in.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Somebody else's bike stand is not for you to presume you can just throw your bike on there and start throwing on parts.

I'm siding with the shop.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> Somebody else's bike stand is not for you to presume you can just throw your bike on there and start throwing on parts.
> 
> I'm siding with the shop.


Yep, I agree here. If you would have asked, the guy probably would have cut it to any size. And he may even have let you use the stand, if you asked. But, you blame him for you buying two feet and then proceed to use his stand without asking. That's extremely rude on your part.


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## elborikua (Mar 14, 2014)

I think that you should have asked nicely prior to setting your bike on the stand. Work on your rapport. 

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## HitmenOnlyInc (Jul 20, 2012)

I'll side on the shop with this one. Bike shops are in the business to make money. I understand if they don't want you wrenching in their space. They don't know how competent you are and there is a small thing called liability. 

I know there is not much danger in working on a bike in a stand, but...

Like JB said above, 10 bucks is reasonable for that service.


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## bruce219 (Jul 9, 2012)

Also with the shop,bit cheeky what you did and expect nobody to say something.


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## mtb_beginner (Jul 20, 2013)

ZmyDust said:


> Sounds to me the guy wasn't to interested in building their customer base. A good experience there and maybe later you'd come back and buy a $5k bike...


OP is too cheap to consider paying $10 to get the shop do the job for him. I don't think he would even consider buying a $5000 bike at all.

And what he did was rude...trying to use shop's equipment without asking first.


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## Haymarket (Jan 20, 2008)

It is hard to tell whether you are serious or not. Who the heck would just throw their bike in a shop stand and presume they could do their own work on the stand the shop uses to make money? That really is absurd. Then he even offered to do the work for $10 and you walked out? You have got problems in my opinion, and the shop was right.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Max_winner1 said:


> I walk into this bike shop (high end one with expensive things), with my Downhill bike asking them if I could buy 2 feet of shifting cable housing. They cut me the length and I proceed to put it on the bike stand they have on the open floor. Guy says you have to take your bike off the bike stand. "You can't install it here, it is for customers". I asked him well If I paid for this then I would be a paying customer and I should be able to install it. His response was "If you want me to install it for you then sure but the bike stands are not used for people to install their parts". So I ask him how much for "you" to install the housing from my shifter to top tube socket he said 10 bucks. Mind you I got 2 ft because it was just a little over 1 ft, but I was not going to ask him if he could trim it to size as that would be asking him to actually do work.
> Last thing he said was "Sorry dude bike shop is in the business to make money".
> It is kinda funny because they usually do the odd jobs for people who walk in with out charging. Like minor derailleur adjustments, inflating tires, installing purchased parts, a little lube here and there ect...
> 
> ...


Sounds like you do not understand labor. Why did you bring your bike in the shop in the first place?


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## gatorgrizz27 (Feb 12, 2011)

I'm with the shop too, part of their business is doing repairs and service, why would they let people use their equipment to lose money? Would you take your car down to a shop and drive it on their lift to do your own brakes? If I read correctly you were give the cable for free, then refused their low price to install it, and were offended? 

I could see feeling mistreated if you asked how much for them to install it and they said "We have a half hour minimum and our labor rate is $50", but $10? As far as the "small jobs for free", how do you know the guys getting those jobs haven't bought a new bike from there every year, or friends with the owner or mechanics, or something else? Beyond airing up a tire which is just human decency, free perks are for loyal customers, not first timers. 

Most ride areas have wash stands that would have worked, or it's not a big deal to do it on a bike rack or even leaned up against the wall outside. If you are competent and ride with guys from the shop they will probably let you come by with some beer after closing when they are hanging out and do your own service, but not as a stranger during business hours.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

It's really hard for me to picture someone walking into a bike shop with their tools, bike, buying housing and then just throwing it on a shop stand and going to work on it, without even asking. I'm betting the OP was going to ask to use the shop tools. And what about the shifter cable? Who replaces the housing without replacing the cable?


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## menusk (Jun 27, 2009)

Yea I have to side with the shop as well. You make them cut two feet then return it because you couldn't use their tools. Not cool. What if you messed up their stand and it fell on you or broke cutters somehow trimming your too long cable Stuff happens who would be responsible then?


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

Your move to the stand threw everything off. Dedicated spaces are privileged access spaces. Your presumption creates a wtf moment.


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## wyatt79m (Mar 3, 2007)

Your a tool? Not sure if I completely understand, but if you got housing and no cable? You obviously don't know what your doing. Also, how about they walk into your house and give you some $ for two feet of aluminum foil and use it to wrap a roast or something and throw it in your oven? Same thing, how would you feel with some stranger just taking over your oven without asking?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Yeah, you stick your thing in my oven and I'm going to get my shotgun!


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## Max_winner1 (Feb 11, 2004)

Actually no the 2 ft of cable was 5 bucks.



gatorgrizz27 said:


> I'm with the shop too, part of their business is doing repairs and service, why would they let people use their equipment to lose money? Would you take your car down to a shop and drive it on their lift to do your own brakes? If I read correctly you were give the cable for free, then refused their low price to install it, and were offended?
> 
> I could see feeling mistreated if you asked how much for them to install it and they said "We have a half hour minimum and our labor rate is $50", but $10? As far as the "small jobs for free", how do you know the guys getting those jobs haven't bought a new bike from there every year, or friends with the owner or mechanics, or something else? Beyond airing up a tire which is just human decency, free perks are for loyal customers, not first timers.
> 
> Most ride areas have wash stands that would have worked, or it's not a big deal to do it on a bike rack or even leaned up against the wall outside. If you are competent and ride with guys from the shop they will probably let you come by with some beer after closing when they are hanging out and do your own service, but not as a stranger during business hours.


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## Phu-Q (May 1, 2014)

Owning my own shop. If you bought the cable housing from me I would have put it on for free if the stand was open. To create word of mouth and good customer service. Most bike shops also have to compete with cheaper online parts so they wont do much of anything without being paid.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Max_winner1 said:


> Actually no the 2 ft of cable was 5 bucks.


So, you wouldn't pay $10 to have the housing installed, which is a fair price. But, you gave back $5 worth of housing because you didn't get your way. You are totally effing unbelievable!!! TOOL is an appropriate word here. No wait, you are what I just coined as an Entitlement Tool. I'm betting you come from a mid thirties or younger generation who feels they are entitled to everything, but don't want to pay for anything.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Phu-Q said:


> Owning my own shop. If you bought the cable from me I would have put it in for free if the stand was open. To create word of mouth and good customer service. Most bike shops also have to compete with cheaper online parts so they will do anything for a buck!


And this is why most shops fail. Hey, I'm a big non LBS believer. But, when I need the convenience of an LBS, I'm willing to pay for parts and labor. It's only the right thing to do.


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## Phu-Q (May 1, 2014)

I understand where your coming from but cant see how my shop would fail if I had an open stand. Your in the process of not making any money in that moment anyway. so why not be nice and create word of mouth. thats the reason I wouldnt fail!


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## PerfectZero (Jul 22, 2010)

I've seen regular customers borrow tools occasionally, but I'd find it really odd to see someone just walk into a store and try to use their repair stand, even if they bought a part there. It'd be like going to a restaurant and trying to use their kitchen.

We do have a few bike "shops" around here with tools that are basically open for anyone to use if you pay some sort of membership fee, but they're not commercial operations.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Phu-Q said:


> I understand where your coming from but cant see how my shop would fail if I had an open stand. Your in the process of not making any money in that moment anyway. so why not be nice and create word of mouth. thats the reason I wouldnt fail!


Well if a stand is open, that means the shop isn't doing so well. And over time that word of mouth will fill stands with free labor being offered. That will drive you to the poor house. The mark up on parts isn't enough to pay for free installation of those parts.


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## Max_winner1 (Feb 11, 2004)

I don't mind all that much, considering I Downhill and XC ride you would be correct that yes I do have all the tools to do my own work. Just trying to get my money's worth nothing wrong with that and better than having him standing around like he did after I left. Elitist bike shop is what I would call them, riders can't even xc group ride with them without spending 50 bucks yearly for their club membership (that no one buys into). Even then the majority of their stock is in Road bikes. I remember the old bike shop every Tuesday evening's at closing everyone would show up at the front and go riding. Meh don't buy from them, buy on-line Jenson U.S.A. Great shipping too!


Oh the good days of layed back friendly bike shops are gone were you could hang out and shoot the ****.


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## shining_trapezoid (Mar 24, 2014)

You paid for the part not for the use of their stand. Rationalize it all you want, but that was a douche move, and I normally think the shop guys are the ones being pricks. Not this time.


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## gatorgrizz27 (Feb 12, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> So, you wouldn't pay $10 to have the housing installed, which is a fair price. But, you gave back $5 worth of housing because you didn't get your way. You are totally effing unbelievable!!! TOOL is an appropriate word here. No wait, you are what I just coined as an Entitlement Tool. I'm betting you come from a mid thirties or younger generation who feels they are entitled to everything, but don't want to pay for anything.


Unfortunately this is true all too often. I first assumed the OP was probably a 14/15 year old kid who hadn't yet learned about business and the ways of the world yet (understandable), until seeing he joined this forum 10 years ago! You've been riding for 10 years and don't understand how shops survive? Then your attitude is "screw-em", which will do you tons of good when your cable snaps on the way to the trail and you have to wait 3-5 days for your online cable to come in since all the shops went out of business.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Max_winner1 said:


> I don't mind all that much, considering I Downhill and XC ride you would be correct that yes I do have all the tools to do my own work. Just trying to get my money's worth nothing wrong with that and better than having him standing around like he did after I left. Elitist bike shop is what I would call them, riders can't even xc group ride with them without spending 50 bucks yearly for their club membership (that no one buys into). Even then the majority of their stock is in Road bikes. I remember the old bike shop every Tuesday evening's at closing everyone would show up at the front and go riding. Meh don't buy from them, buy on-line Jenson U.S.A. Great shipping too!
> 
> Oh the good days of layed back friendly bike shops are gone were you could hang out and shoot the ****.


Well, why do even go there if it's not your type of shop. Are you sure it's not Max_winer?


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## gatorgrizz27 (Feb 12, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Well if a stand is open, that means the shop isn't doing so well. And over time that word of mouth will fill stands with free labor being offered. That will drive you to the poor house. The mark up on parts isn't enough to pay for free installation of those parts.


Exactly, the free labor rumor will spread like wildfire amongst certain groups of friends and drive everyone to your shop to install their online purchased parts for free. Then when they aren't able to and a half-assembled bike is in your way, you become the ******* for throwing it out front. Or you get stuck completing the job to save your reputation and then have to fight to make a dollar with Mr. Cheapskate because he didn't agree to have you do the work for him.

You know what is good for business? Charging a fair price (like $10), getting you in and out quickly, answering your questions, and treating you with respect. Having you go tell your friends that they had what you needed and didn't rip you off to send a bit of business their way. I'm sure they are fine without your money, you're the kind of customer that is more trouble than you're worth, I've dealt with plenty and gotten much better at weeding them out.


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

Meh. Some shops let customers use their tools/stands but most do not. It's a bit obnoxious to just assume you can use a shop's stuff and throw your bike in the stand. 

You need to understand that with internet bike shops taking business away from regular shops, they're making money of servicing bikes. They pay some kid $10/hr to wrench on bikes and charge the customer $50/hr for services. Once shops start letting customers wrench of their own bikes in the shop, they lose serious money.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

Presumptuous of you to load your bike on the stand without asking first. In dog terms, you pissed on his tree, and now he had to piss on it to let you know it is not yours. When you are in someone else's space, show some respect.

The shop I go to, which is where I bought my bike, have had much work performed, and I'm on a first name basis with the crew when I see them in the shop or on the trail. they are happy to help me out or let me do it. If I walked into a shop I'd never been in before, I would expect to need to build a relationship before they would let me piss on their tree. Yes, businesses are in the business of building relationships, but if someone walks in and is disrespectful, it is far more likely everyone there (besides the actual owner) is going to hope you never come back and take steps to see that happen.


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## ShinDiggity (Mar 29, 2010)

Phu-Q said:


> I understand where your coming from but cant see how my shop would fail if I had an open stand. Your in the process of not making any money in that moment anyway. so why not be nice and create word of mouth. thats the reason I wouldnt fail!


Are you saying you own a shop? My guess is no you don't, if you did you wouldn't own it for long selling 2 feet of housing and installing it for free. You are losing money if you do that. If you do install for free it will attract every mooch in the area once word gets out.

Cute user name by the way.


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

Bottom line, shop lost a customer. It could have been handled better on both sides but at the end of the day OP will sh!t talk the shop to 5-10 people as opposed to relating a good experience to thos same folks.

Back to the dog pile...


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I seriously dont think I could buy some shifter cable and then just randomly throw my bike on their stand and grab my multi tool and start tearing down my bike. That takes some balls. If I were to do that, I wouldn't be surprised when they told me not to though.. I feel like that's just common sense. Their shop is not your garage. 

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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

jugdish said:


> Bottom line, shop lost a customer. It could have been handled better on both sides but at the end of the day OP will sh!t talk the shop to 5-10 people as opposed to relating a good experience to thos same folks.
> 
> Back to the dog pile...


The shop lost a customer that it doesn't want. Its a high end bike shop. People who frequent high end bike shops are sophisticated enough to know when some stupid tool is spouting BS. It would be like someone who works at Walmart going to Costco and spouting how bad Costco is. The customers would be like, take your trashy **** back to Walmart.


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

I don't believe the original story - sounds made up to me.


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

Look, all I'm saying is that it could have been handled better by both parties. Regardless of level of " sophistication", dude is out trash talking their shop. That on some level I'd imagine turns people away. 
Costco= high end, eh?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Mookie said:


> I don't believe the original story - sounds made up to me.


The rest of his posts suggest that he is, indeed, that much of a Tool.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

jugdish said:


> Look, all I'm saying is that it could have been handled better by both parties. Regardless of level of " sophistication", dude is out trash talking their shop. That on some level I'd imagine turns people away.
> Costco= high end, eh?


Compared to Walmart, yeah. So, if you've never seen me before and I pull my car into your garage and start working on it, you wouldn't have a problem with that? Especially if I had an attitude?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

jugdish said:


> Look, all I'm saying is that it could have been handled better by both parties. Regardless of level of " sophistication", dude is out trash talking their shop. That on some level I'd imagine turns people away.
> Costco= high end, eh?


If everything went down as the OP described and the shop employee said everything in a friendly tone (who knows?) then it seems like the situation was handled pretty well. What would you have done differently?

It would always bug me really bad when someone left my shop pissed and we all did our best to make sure that never happened, and it rarely did. Over the years I learned that no mater how hard you try there are some people you just can't please, and those type of people don't generally carry much weight when they beach and moan about it to others.

After re-reading the OP though I'm agreeing with Mookie, sounds troolish.


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## root (Jan 24, 2006)

Dude maybe trash talking the shop, but look how many people don't buy it. I side with the shop too, I worked for one in the past. We would let some people use the stand, but they would be known regular customers, and if there a job came in for the mechanics they would have to vacate the stand asap. You typically dont let someone unknown who walks in and buys 2 feet of cable to use the stand to work on his bike himself. 
And actually even having regular customers work on stand is against policy technically. There is a liability concern letting non-employees into the mechanics area. 
Work at a bike shop and you'll understand. There's plenty of crazy moochers who come in and try to take advantage. You need to build some rapport first. The first time you come in, buy $5 in parts, and get huffy about paying the mechanic $10 to install it?! Trust me, they're glad to never see you again. Build a relationship and the mechanic will often do it for free and will be really stoked if you reciprocate with a sixer of good beer or you bring in a cup of good iced Thai coffee.
It might be true that this shop really is lousy, but they way the OP presented it, anyone who's ever worked for a shop would side with the shop.


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## Bikin' Bric (Sep 7, 2003)

I know all the employees and the owner / manager of my LBS very personally, I even worked there for a summer. That said, I wouldn't even think about throwing my bike in their stand and going to work on it after I bought a $3 piece of housing (which likely only made them a few cents). They are there to make money, its a business after all.


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## Slee_Stack (Apr 14, 2010)

The shop definitely lost out on a potential regular mooch.

Why do so many think the world OWES them something?


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

If disrespect is what you give, that's what you get back...


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## Hazerd Hownd (May 7, 2010)

Buy one of these, purchase your cheap a$$ piece of cable housing at Jenson & do it yourself AT HOME!


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## Bokchoicowboy (Aug 7, 2007)

Why didn't you take your cable and bike home and install it there, using you own workstand like the rest of us DIY'ers do?


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Max_winner1 said:


> What are your thoughts on this.


The shop I used to work in did not allow customers to work on their bikes inside the shop or use store tools, it was actually because the store's insurance specifically forbade customers and 'unqualified' staff from using tools or working on bikes.

Re: Your experience, you really should have asked before just putting your bike up on the stand. The guy in the shop was probably panicking his way out of a situation he wasn't expecting to happen. Sounds like both of you could have communicated a bit better, nevermind.

I would certainly have cut the cables to exact length for you without any extra charge, but fitting in the shop would have been extra, because that equates to mechanic time, which is expensive.


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## sodak (Oct 10, 2006)

Ha! If the OP is serious, you are in the wrong for assuming you could just throw your bike in the stand. Then ranting and stomping about how they wanted to charge you $10 for the install is funny as hell. I charge $1.00 a ft for housing, $4.00 per cable and $10-$25 for the install of the housing and cables depending on how elaborate it is. So, I think you were already getting a deal. Get this... I have to charge $10 to replace a tube on the front and $15 to replace a tube on the rear. Personally, I think that is just silly but people gladly pay the $$$. 

Teaching your self to wrench is the best thing you can do in the bicycle world, other than taking the training wheels off.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

I wouldn't expect that any shop would allow a customer to use a shop stand or tools. There are exceptions, but for an unfamiliar customer to assume free range creates an uncomfortable situation for a shop employee too. The OP's action left the mech little choice but to confront and dissuade. My preferred LBS has a DIY area, hourly charge rate, that is available for customers to use and that is located away from the shop's mech area. Gotta side with the shop employee on this one. Unfortunately this happened so it's a blemish on both your houses.


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## Hazerd Hownd (May 7, 2010)

elborikua said:


> I think that you should have asked nicely prior to setting your bike on the stand. Work on your rapport.


^^Absolutely This!!!^^

Don't A$$/U/ME you can just saunter in and for $5 start wrenching in their high end showroom. You might've gotten a more agreeable answer by simply asking first. Think man..THINK!


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## PolishExperiment (May 14, 2011)

I bought some oil at a local garage and drove my car onto their hoist to do my own oil change. No big deal right? For some reason they didn't like it.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

What if you broke the stand? Do you just ask for another one? I would never do that.. You're just one of those entitled people that the rest of us can't stand i guess

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## Dirtydogg (Aug 11, 2012)

When I had my Auto Shop, people would randomly stop by for me to do this/that and the other and expect it to be done for free because it would 'only' be a 5-10min or so job....
People I knew would also ask; "can I change my brakes at your place and maybe you can help if I run into an issue" lol.Really? How about I have overhead...Lights, equipment, heat, tools..etc that they would need to use not to mention my labor/extpertise. I would tell them that they just need to pay me, and then they would say no.
People expect stuff for free and when you would turn them down, you're automatically the bad guy. Typical user mentality!

Own a shop/business and then you'll understand!


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

I am one of those priviledged customer than can walk in and saunter about, have long conversations with the owners and mechanics when they are not busy, get free information whenever I need and all parts at 10% above their cost or lower on a pricematch... and never in a trillion lifetimes would I just toss my bike on one of their stands if they weren't about to do some work for me. It's beyond rude. For all I know, they've each got 10 repairs to get done before closing in an hour. Putting your bike on a stand unannounced is like queuing up at the front of the line for the latest XBox while everone is asleep in their tent. A real d!ck move.

I've EARNED the right to be first (help make sales to customers, pass word around about the shop, send a crapload of repairs there way from our scout troop, purchase from them a lot), but, wow, just wow.


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## beshannon (Oct 14, 2012)

girlonbike said:


> Somebody else's bike stand is not for you to presume you can just throw your bike on there and start throwing on parts.
> 
> I'm siding with the shop.


I agree.

This is similar to the people that go to the auto parts store and then proceed to do their work in the store parking lot.

You bought a part, not shop time. Granted the shop could have been friendlier but you did not ask to use their facilities to perform your work.


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## Thatshowiroll (Jan 30, 2009)

Max_winner1 said:


> They cut me the length and I proceed to put it on the bike stand they have on the open floor.


My understanding in the OP, is that there is a stand in the middle of the shop for all to use.

No?


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I'm glad someone finally brought up liability issues. I think that is the major reason a shop doesn't lend out tools or work space and if they do, maybe they do not understand their exposure. 

As a ski instructor, I can not do any work, no matter how minor, on a clients equipment because of liability. A supervisor on the hill is called over and they take care of the problem, usually by bringing the client and their equipment to the shop and fixing things for free. Good customer relations and protection from rogue lawyers.


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## SycoCell121 (Oct 7, 2008)

I feel you. I went into a LBS the other day because I just moved to town. Trying to establish a place, I needed my EVO rocker arm bolds torqued. Takes 10 seconds with a torque wrench. In turn, I was going to purchase two $70 tires and some sealant. Well, after getting some questions along the lines of "what are you doing taking your bike apart?....Why did you do this?...Why would anyone do this?...." Well it's my bike, I clean my bike, I can do what I want to MY bike.

So they take it downstairs to torque it and strip out two of my EVO bolts....Tried blaming me and I quickly asked what size adapter they used. Well they used American when it was supposed to be metric. I told them I'll wait while they replace the bolts right there for me...

Needless to say, I won't be going back to that shop. I still purchased my tires there that day, but that's the end of them. I'll stick to the Trek Store. Had great experiences with them.

Rant over.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

elborikua said:


> I think that you should have asked nicely prior to setting your bike on the stand. Work on your rapport.


this.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

This was common practice at both shops I worked at. Use the car repair analogy...same thing...does Pep Boys let you toss your bike on their rack and change your tires? We didn't lend out tools either. A bit different situation when someone who bought their bike there and is a regular customer comes in and needs a quick adjustment that the mechanic does because he is not busy.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## CodeJockey (Dec 23, 2013)

Gotta side with the shop on this. Sounds like you tried to use a for-sale stand to work on your bike in the middle of their shop. There are numerous faux pas there, the least of which was presuming you could hijack something they're trying to sell for your own personal needs.

I do my maintenance at home; it would never dawn on me to start wrenching on my bike on an LBS' shop floor.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

CodeJockey said:


> Gotta side with the shop on this. Sounds like you tried to use a for-sale stand to work on your bike in the middle of their shop. There are numerous faux pas there, the least of which was presuming you could hijack something they're trying to sell for your own personal needs.
> 
> I do my maintenance at home; it would never dawn on me to start wrenching on my bike on an LBS' shop floor.


Same here. My default assumption would be that if I wanted things installed I would pay them or do it at home.

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## CodeJockey (Dec 23, 2013)

Dirtydogg said:


> When I had my Auto Shop, people would randomly stop by for me to do this/that and the other and expect it to be done for free because it would 'only' be a 5-10min or so job....
> People I knew would also ask; "can I change my brakes at your place and maybe you can help if I run into an issue" lol.Really? How about I have overhead...Lights, equipment, heat, tools..etc that they would need to use not to mention my labor/extpertise. I would tell them that they just need to pay me, and then they would say no.
> People expect stuff for free and when you would turn them down, you're automatically the bad guy. Typical user mentality!
> 
> Own a shop/business and then you'll understand!


In a previous life I was a network administrator / PC technician. I had so many friends, family, and co-workers who just expected me to do all their PC stuff for free. Hell, I didn't even want to do it for money! My time off is MY TIME OFF, right?

The straw that broke the camel's back was when my father in law invited us over for dinner on some random weeknight. We arrive and I'm immediately shown to his office where his computer can't get on the internet and their wireless router isn't working. So I spend an hour or two working on that crap while everyone else eats dinner. As soon as dinner is over, we're shuffled out the door. Before we even made it back to the car, I told my wife that would never happen again.

So I came up with a canned response: "sorry, this is a job not a hobby. If you need something done, my rate is $x/hour." Of course the rate was adjusted for friends and family, but they still balked at me not just donating my time and expertise. I actually lost a friend or two (or so I thought) over it, but oh well.

As for my father in law, the line actually hit home since he's an attorney. "You don't provide free legal services and I don't provide free technical services. More importantly, I like to leave my job at the office and keep my career and my family as far apart as possible."

Jackpot.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> So, you wouldn't pay $10 to have the housing installed, which is a fair price. But, you gave back $5 worth of housing because you didn't get your way. You are totally effing unbelievable!!! TOOL is an appropriate word here. No wait, you are what I just coined as an Entitlement Tool. I'm betting you come from a *mid thirties or younger generation *who feels they are entitled to everything, but don't want to pay for anything.


You were doing fine till you got to this part. My parents are old and they are just as "entitlement-driven" as any young person, even when not considering what they earned. I see plenty of people like that, and I know you do too. This attitude is "naturally" what people think of younger people as they age, I don't think it has to do with any one generation, think back about when electricity and water started to make life easier, I'm sure the older generation referred to the younger one as "entitled" and "didn't earn it" because they could simply pay for electricity and have sewage. The older generation is just as guilty of this by voting for things that benefit only them. Just look at driver's licenses in AZ. They are literally good indefinitely with no recurrent testing requirements. Old people get licenses in AZ and then are good to go cause accidents and hit cars all over the place. Entitlement up the wazoo.


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## Iamrockandroll13 (Feb 10, 2013)

That 10 dollars for the install would have been worth it. Your bike would have shifted smooth as butter and it would have worked perfectly. If it didn't, you'd have had someone to take it to in order to make it right. Doing it yourself means you've got no one to go to when it doesn't work quite right or needs an adjustment. I mean, sure, a mechanic will adjust it for you, but it will probably cost you the $10 you originally would have spent.

I'm mechanic and I'm not even allowed to work on my own bike during business hours on my days off. Work stands in a shop are for shop work. If you want to do your own work, that's great, I'll sell you a work stand and some tools and you can set up your own work area in your own home. $10 is ridiculously generous to change a cable and housing (why aren't you replacing that cable? red flag right there, you don't know what you're doing.) No shop needs amateurs coming in breaking their tools, wasting space, and eating shop mechanics' time when they finally figure out they have no idea what they are dong. There are certainly customers that we will do a free adjustment for once in a while or other small services, but they have been coming to us for years, and deserve a little bit of extra service due to the thousands of dollars in business they give us.


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## HitmenOnlyInc (Jul 20, 2012)

CodeJockey said:


> Gotta side with the shop on this. Sounds like you tried to use a for-sale stand to work on your bike in the middle of their shop. There are numerous faux pas there, the least of which was presuming you could hijack something they're trying to sell for your own personal needs.
> 
> I do my maintenance at home; it would never dawn on me to start wrenching on my bike on an LBS' shop floor.


I don't think the stand in question was one for sale. I have been in many shops that have a repair stand seemingly on the floor that are used to assess a customer's bike without taking it into the shop per se. Easier for customer to describe issues with mech. But certainly not there for customers to work on their own ride.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

I don't know about it being worth it.. O
Personally, I don't think people should be out in the woods alone if they don't know how to replace a cable and tune their bike. That's just scary. I never go to the lbs for anything and my bike shifts fine. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Thoughts on bike shop practice?

Well, as far as weeding out the sh1tty, useless customers that no one wants, they don't need any practice with that. 

Seems like they have it down to a science.


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## CodeJockey (Dec 23, 2013)

net wurker said:


> Thoughts on bike shop practice?
> 
> Well, as far as weeding out the sh1tty, useless customers that no one wants, they don't need any practice with that.
> 
> Seems like they have it down to a science.


It's not a work stand, it's a _bait_ stand :thumbsup:


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## fontarin (May 11, 2011)

I have to side with the shop. Even with the shop I ride for and am in at least once a week, I'd still ask nicely before I threw my bike in the stand, and I'd just do it at home if they looked busy.


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## mountainbyte (Oct 17, 2005)

*West coast vs. East coast bike shops*

Just ask first, they'd probably react differently... But if they charge you for a cable end, remember never to buy anything else there ever. That's just being a dick whether it costs them 2 cents vs. a good customer story.


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## StevieGriff (Jan 8, 2013)

Totally side with the shop here. I'd be mortified to just start fixing my bike inside a shop on their workstand, especially without even asking first!

Like PolishExperiment said, you wouldn't buy a part in a car mechanics are drive your car up onto their lift to install it yourself.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Wow. Ballsy move to assume you can use their equipment! What's up with the sense of entitlement?


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## Guest (May 8, 2014)

I don't think I'd ask to use the shops facilities (any of them) for this just based on how liability insurance works. That being said, I have pulled a cable off my bike in the parking lot, had the shop cut me new housing and clip the cable, then installed it in the parking lot. On one hand the shop (every square inch) is there to generate revenue, on the other hand there is no substantial difference between me installing a cable in the lot or across the street. I have a buddy who complains that the shop charges him money to change tubes in his bike when they will make adjustments for free. Difference? Adjustments come with the bike purchase, tubes are maintenance not covered by the purchase agreement. I think having someone change my tubes while I eat chinese food is worth $5, but then I also tip my servers for their efforts.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Crankout said:


> Wow. Ballsy move to assume you can use their equipment! What's up with the sense of entitlement?


He was probably born in the late 70s or in the 80s. That's the very first wave of the entitlement generation.


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## CodeJockey (Dec 23, 2013)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> He was probably born in the late 70s or in the 80s. That's the very first wave of the entitlement generation.


Said members of every generation since the beginning of time.


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## JFalcetti (Feb 16, 2009)

I'll side with the shop (without calling you a name as some incredibly bright and insightful people have done here.... that's sarcasm folks).

In any shop I have ever been in it is not customary for a patron to take it upon themselves to throw their bike in the stand (nevermind using shop tools). In a perfect world the mechanic would have just tossed it on there for free. But $5 or $10 dollars sounds perfectly reasonable.


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## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

Usually good manners to ask before you can use something. Walking in there like you own the place and proceeding to use their stuff at your will. Well that just screams douchebag. You probably pissed the dude off and it was his way of teaching you some manners.

Edit: if you came in my hypothetical shop and did that I'd charge you 50 for the housing and 50 for the installation then 50 douche bag tax.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

CodeJockey said:


> Said members of every generation since the beginning of time.


But, it keeps getting worse and people expect more and more for free. Just look at how many people are on some kind of social program compared to the previous generation. And, I'm talking about percentages of the population.


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## wrench347 (Aug 25, 2010)

Holy sense of entitlement, Batman! 100% siding with the shop on this. And no, buying a part doesn't entitle you to free tools and free shop space/time. I've spent almost 30 years in the auto repair industry, 18 turning wrenches and the last 10 at the front following a back injury. for any number of reasons I would never let this go on a store I ran. Can't imagine the shop owner would want someone hogging up his store and tying up staff to get some free shop time. Don't know what you do for a living but I doubt you let customers use your facility/office/tools/etc to take billable hours from you and be in the way of the paying customers. Man up!


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## owtdorz (Apr 26, 2012)

Liability!!!!
If you were working on your bike and the stand failed and the bike hit the ground and broke, you would probably expect them to pay for it?
What if you got your hand caught in the sprockets? Piece of cable poked you in the eye?
This post sounds like it's from a Troll.
I really don't belive there are actually people like that in the MTB community.


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## hardwarz (Jun 12, 2009)

If you went into a car dealer and purchased a part for your car, would you assume that you could put the car up on the rack and start working on it? Of course not! Why would you assume that you could do that at the bike store? I'm sure that it was your attitude and assumption that you could do what you want that brought on everything. If you would have asked how much it would be for them to buy and install 2 feet of cable housing, then they probably would have hooked you up. But since you believed that you had the right to start using their equipment, you're in the wrong. The bike stand is a repair bay and needs to make money. What if they had other bike repairs that needed done that day and you decide to take hours just to replace your cable housing? They don't know your skill level; they don't know you at all.


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## onegearaddict (May 16, 2013)

Did you happen to consider that cycling season is in full bloom and chances are that technician was super busy, and probably had half a dozen customer bikes in line and various other shop tasks that needed tended to. Then, out of the corner of his eye he see's a complete stranger take it upon himself to just start working on his bike in the middle of the bike shop, without even asking if it was okay to use the stand first. 

He fulfilled his obligation when he sold you the cable. The next logical step for you the customer to have taken would have been to either:

A) Take the cable and bike home and install it with your own tools using your own stand.

B) Make sure the gentleman wasn't super busy and ask if he would mind installing it for you while you take a leisurely walk around the neighborhood, otherwise leave the bike there for a repair.

Chances are he would have done it for free on the spot if you were cool, after which the cool thing to do in return would have been to reward him with a $10 tip.


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## joshonabike (Sep 19, 2013)

I want to lend credibility to your argument in that...it sounds like the attitude of the shop guy was not in the right place, he could have been more relaxed in his approach (if you are telling the story right)...having said that, I do agree that bringing your bike into a shop usually insinuates that you intend to have the shop work on your bike.

The other thing that came to mind: Was the stand out in the open where anyone can put their bike on it? If so, the shop should consider bringing it behind the bench in their work area...just a thought.


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## tuner34 (Apr 2, 2014)

Lol well how would you liked it if I walked in to your house with a $5000 dollar condom, asked you to make me a sandwich that is 2ft long while I have protected sex with your lady!? What would you do? Walk to the old man's house across the street and tell him about your problems?


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## joshonabike (Sep 19, 2013)

CodeJockey said:


> Said members of every generation since the beginning of time.


LOL...well said!


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## sdm74 (Jan 27, 2013)

Shops barley scrape by as it is..nothing wrong with throwing the guy $10


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## Lord Humongous (Jan 12, 2004)

Somehow bikeshops need to be profitable. Repeat custom is certainly part of building that profit, both through establishing reliable cashflow and generating good word of mouth. Cashflow in the absence of profit isn't incentive to run a business, but it's a necessary part of the equation because without cashflow there is no profit. To be clear, no shop that I have worked for sold enough five thousand dollar bikes in order to rely on that market to keep the doors open; high end bikes are gravy, not meat. Rather it's the continuous flow of cash, more often than not from small ticket items whether sold alone or with bikes, that makes it possible to continue operating a business.

While I think the OP was rude in assuming the use of the shop's utilities, I have no problem with letting someone borrow a tool or two for a quick job after they ask. Were I to be in the same situation I would have tried to find a way to accomodate the OP, generally by suggesting a location out of other customer's eyesight to do their work. Someone working on a bike in a bike store is going to be presumed to be a representative of that business and as such we have a third tier stand that is well out of the way for the borrowing type of customer. This way I can continue to provide service to the balance of my days visitors and I have made the OP feel like I value their requirements because I thought about them, or people with similar expectations, before they showed up in my store.


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## sjhiker (Apr 25, 2008)

I've purchased auto parts from my dealer (tail light housing) and replaced them in the parking lot. I highly doubt they would have let me just pull my car into one of their service bays and put it on the lift.

You should have

*Asked if you could use their bike stand.*

Then when they said no, you wouldn't have come off looking like a d!ck.

What burns me is that unless you've got the ability to install a housing/cable with NO TOOLS, did you show up with your own tools expecting them to let you use their stand? Or did you expect them to let you use their stand and tools?

If you want the LBS to show you good will by doing things like "giving me a free 2ft section of housing", then maybe you should turn around some time and give them some good will like $10 for the installation.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

owtdorz said:


> This post sounds like it's from a Troll.
> I really don't belive there are actually people like that in the MTB community.


I know..... Max_whiner??? He's probably laughing his @ss off! Believe it or not there actually _are_ people like that in the mtb community though.

The upside of this thread is that there has been some good discussions about how most shops need to operate and how important manners are in everyday life. Also some misconceptions, like this IMO-



onegearaddict said:


> Chances are he would have done it for free on the spot if you were cool, after which the cool thing to do in return would have been to reward him with a $10 tip.


I understand the good intent behind this statement but it is bad practice for a busy shop and can make customers who do pay feel like chumps. There will always be exceptions, emergencies, etc., but as a rule shops can ill afford to give away money, and time is money.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

So last week, I bought a breast of turkey, you know the kind in meat section like the deli uses to slice, but unsliced - it's cheaper that way. I walk to the deli and go behind the counter to slice my fresh, new, economically smart turkey breast purchase (I am a paying customer afterall) The deli guys says "hey you can't do that"

I said, "what are you talking about? I just bought this turkey and now I am going to slice it. I am a paying customer and I am entitled to use your machinery myself to prepare my turkey"

Doesn't sound quite right does it?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

joshonabike said:


> The other thing that came to mind: Was the stand out in the open where anyone can put their bike on it? If so, the shop should consider bringing it behind the bench in their work area...just a thought.


A shop should be able to put a stand where ever they want without some JA putting their bike on it, to do repairs, without asking. Some bike shops put a stand out in the show room so people can put a bike in it while buying parts. And even then, people should ask before using it.


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## Gundam168 (Dec 19, 2012)

My local bike shop usually allows that for bikers who they think are hardup and clearly use their bikes as a mode of transport than a recreational toy. Otherwise, it would be like going to a restaurant and just ordering a drink while you eat your food that you brought in with you.


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## TAOS1 (Feb 5, 2013)

Was the bike purchased at this LBS? Would make a big difference....plus bringing in beers and/or pizza on occasion would be a plus.

I throw the guys at my LBS some cash and bring beers in when they let me use their stand, expertise and tools.


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## Arphia (May 8, 2014)

Gundam168 said:


> Otherwise, it would be like going to a restaurant and just ordering a drink while you eat your food that you brought in with you.


It is even worse than that. It is more like ordering a drink and then barging into the kitchen to cook the food you brought with you. Then throwing a tantrum when the chef points out that his business is based on him cooking food in that kitchen in exchange for money.

I really hope OP is just trolling, because this scenario is despicable.


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## flowtron (Nov 17, 2006)

Flamingtaco said:


> I am one of those priviledged customer than can walk in and saunter about, have long conversations with the owners and mechanics when they are not busy, get free information whenever I need and all parts at 10% above their cost or lower on a pricematch... and never in a trillion lifetimes would I just toss my bike on one of their stands if they weren't about to do some work for me. It's beyond rude. For all I know, they've each got 10 repairs to get done before closing in an hour. Putting your bike on a stand unannounced is like queuing up at the front of the line for the latest XBox while everone is asleep in their tent. A real d!ck move.
> 
> I've EARNED the right to be first (help make sales to customers, pass word around about the shop, send a crapload of repairs there way from our scout troop, purchase from them a lot), but, wow, just wow.


Wait, they give you cost plus 10 and you still bring in stuff to price match?! I hope you ask nicely before you open the cash drawer.


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## SomethingRelatedToBiking (Jan 17, 2008)

wyatt79m said:


> how about they walk into your house and give you some $ for two feet of aluminum foil and use it to wrap a roast or something and throw it in your oven?


Lol.

It is the same thing as when the little, clueless BMX kid comes in and flips their clapped-out bike over in the middle of the sales floor to change a flat. You are in the way, you will assuredly take way too long, and it looks really bad to the other paying customers (the ones shelling out $5k at a pro LBS). Sounds like OP is in that middle ground between noob and experienced cyclist: just enough experience to change his own shift cable, but inexperienced enough to not understand the dynamism found in a shop. If you work in a shop, you have to be hard-nosed about these things. Sure, it may be dead at the moment that the kid asks, but in five minutes it could slammed, which leaves little Johnny amid the fray, fumbling around with a borrowed crescent wrench while I try to explain the finer points of suspension setup to a long-term, respectful client. Perhaps the shop guy he talked to bumbled his explanation as to why he couldn't use the stand--that happens a lot. Polite communications is just one of a dozen skills you have to have to build your client base.


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## cassiopia (Nov 29, 2009)

I am with the shop. Would it have been too difficult to put on by yourself outside of the shop. On the rack on your vehicle or propped against a wall, or heavens forbid at your own place.


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## LLave (Oct 29, 2005)

I bet if the OP would have asked FIRST, it would have gone differently.


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## johnb (Feb 8, 2004)

bad andy said:


> So last week, I bought a breast of turkey, you know the kind in meat section like the deli uses to slice, but unsliced - it's cheaper that way. I walk to the deli and go behind the counter to slice my fresh, new, economically smart turkey breast purchase (I am a paying customer afterall) The deli guys says "hey you can't do that"
> 
> I said, "what are you talking about? I just bought this turkey and now I am going to slice it. I am a paying customer and I am entitled to use your machinery myself to prepare my turkey"
> 
> Doesn't sound quite right does it?


Nice!! Good analogy.
But I'm still wondering if he's just a troll.
Either way, he's an @sshole.


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## rjcarlson49 (Apr 19, 2005)

With the shop all the way. I am continually amazed at how cheaply they do work. I know of know other skilled person you can hire so cheaply. Pay for what you get and be happy they are there to serve you.


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

Flip that bike up on the bench at the bus stop. Public goods vs Private property, know the difference, respect civilitries.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Hell, when I go in an out of town shop, one that I'm unlikely to ever spend significant $ in, to ask about ride beta. I *always* buy a map/guide book and what ever consumables (lube/tube) etc I can find, so I can cover the time an employee spent with me.

Fair trade is fair.


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## sgtjim57 (Aug 14, 2009)

Saw this on Facebook today


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## bike4now (Feb 3, 2007)

This has GOT to be a BS story. In all the time I spent working in shops back in the "Pre entitlement era" (snickers), I never once had somebody walk in the shop, buy a piece of cable, then proceed to throw their bike up in the stand. Sure, we had plenty of customers and friends that received preferential treatment. But they had it because they earned it. IF you really did this, then acted all butt hurt and gave the cable back, then you really might want to take a closer look at your social skills.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

great thread, AZ! :thumbsup:


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## Sevenrats (Jan 2, 2014)

For $10 bucks I would have let him do it. I mean it's 10 bucks. You're riding a$1000 (or more) bike and you won't pay $10? 

That being said, bike shop guys are usually totally arrogant. The shop I go to I just expect it going in. I show them something that got broken and they roll their eyes like it's my fault. When I was buying my bike, any bike you're interested in is always ok but not as good as this one over here, which is $1000 more. You ask how much a bike costs and they act like you're a panhandler. 

Our relationship now is kinda cool. They do their elitist act and I roll my eyes at them. It's pretty funny if you don't get mad about it.


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## kiwi_matt (Jul 25, 2008)

It's pretty arrogant to assume you can just help yourself.
Did thought to even ask ever cross your mind?

I've never asked to use a tool, but when I have gone and asked if they could tighten something they often say "help yourself"


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## jdbruner (Oct 3, 2011)

Fix the Spade said:


> The shop I used to work in did not allow customers to work on their bikes inside the shop or use store tools, it was actually because the store's insurance specifically forbade customers and 'unqualified' staff from using tools or working on bikes.


Ding, Ding, Ding! We have a winner! If the guy gets hurt, damages something, etc., the insurance co. would not cover it.


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## MidwestBike (Jan 9, 2014)

bike4now said:


> This has GOT to be a BS story. In all the time I spent working in shops back in the "Pre entitlement era" (snickers), I never once had somebody walk in the shop, buy a piece of cable, then proceed to throw their bike up in the stand. Sure, we had plenty of customers and friends that received preferential treatment. But they had it because they earned it. IF you really did this, then acted all butt hurt and gave the cable back, then you really might want to take a closer look at your social skills.


As a shop owner, I have seen similar things happen; although always with a BMX kid. On different occasions, probably 5 or 6 of them have come into the shop, bought grips, tubes, or chains, and then proceeded to flip their bike over and start working on it in the middle of the main traffic aisle. Each time, I told them to move their hoopty-bike to a corner or out in front of the shop (the old shop had a covered entry). Each and every one of them wanted me to match the Dan's Comp price on the parts, too. I suggested to a couple of them that they should buy the parts at Dan's Comp and then install them on their warehouse floor (Dan's Comp isn't far from here).

If an adult came in and threw his bike on one of my repair stands and started working on it, I don't really know how I'd react. I'd probably be in shock at the rudeness and sense of entitlement. Then I'd probably tell him to get the hell out of my store. Or taze him. I like tazing people...
On the other hand, if someone asks if they can use my stand, I have a portable stand that they're welcome to use behind the shop (the new shop is tiny). They'd better bring their own tools, though... I was an auto mechanic before the bike shop thing and NO ONE borrows my tools. (I was more lenient when I first opened, but now I'm short 2 or 3 Snap-On ratchets, 2 chain tools, 3 Snap-On wrenches, and probably several other tools that I'm forgetting.)


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## Mr Spanky (May 8, 2014)

I think some of you guys are misunderstanding. He didn't go into the back of the mechanic's work area and just help himself to the tools. There's a stand out on the store floor specifically so customers can install the parts they buy - lights, pedals, etc. Cable housing is a part and he was installing it just as if it's a light or fender. It seems to me that this guy was using the stand for its intended purpose. If the layout really is as this guy describes, I'd lean towards his side

As for the greater issue of people working on their bikes in a shop, I worked at a shop in college and it was a tough one. Most of the time we had at least a half-hour wait if not a lot longer, so asking you to wait could be out of line. One of the most common issues was changing a flat. Someone was out on a ride, got a flat and needed to fix it in order to ride home - Do I let them spread out all over the floor on a Saturday afternoon when my shop is packed? Or do I make them wait an hour or more while I fix other people's bikes who are also waiting? The customer needs to get home and can fix the flat himself and they tend to get mad when I don't let them. But yes, as other mechanics have mentioned, I've had instances where a guy would quickly have his bike in pieces and be asking for tools and whatnot and it would be a mess.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Mr Spanky said:


> I think some of you guys are misunderstanding. He didn't go into the back of the mechanic's work area and just help himself to the tools. There's a stand out on the store floor specifically so customers can install the parts they buy - lights, pedals, etc. Cable housing is a part and he was installing it just as if it's a light or fender. It seems to me that this guy was using the stand for its intended purpose. If the layout really is as this guy describes, I'd lean towards his side
> 
> As for the greater issue of people working on their bikes in a shop, I worked at a shop in college and it was a tough one. Most of the time we had at least a half-hour wait if not a lot longer, so asking you to wait could be out of line. One of the most common issues was changing a flat. Someone was out on a ride, got a flat and needed to fix it in order to ride home - Do I let them spread out all over the floor on a Saturday afternoon when my shop is packed? Or do I make them wait an hour or more while I fix other people's bikes who are also waiting? The customer needs to get home and can fix the flat himself and they tend to get mad when I don't let them. But yes, as other mechanics have mentioned, I've had instances where a guy would quickly have his bike in pieces and be asking for tools and whatnot and it would be a mess.


I'm pretty sure on what shop he is talking about and that's not what the stand is for. Or, for that matter any shop that Iv'e been to with a stand out front.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I've never been to a shop where a stand is outside the work area for customers to install their own parts...and I've been to alot of shops.

But it does seem odd that someone would buy a part then walk into the service area and pop their bike on a work stand and start wrenching.


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## MidwestBike (Jan 9, 2014)

Mr Spanky said:


> I think some of you guys are misunderstanding. He didn't go into the back of the mechanic's work area and just help himself to the tools. *There's a stand out on the store floor specifically so customers can install the parts they buy *- lights, pedals, etc. Cable housing is a part and he was installing it just as if it's a light or fender. It seems to me that this guy was using the stand for its intended purpose. If the layout really is as this guy describes, I'd lean towards his side
> 
> As for the greater issue of people working on their bikes in a shop, I worked at a shop in college and it was a tough one. Most of the time we had at least a half-hour wait if not a lot longer, so asking you to wait could be out of line. One of the most common issues was changing a flat. Someone was out on a ride, got a flat and needed to fix it in order to ride home - Do I let them spread out all over the floor on a Saturday afternoon when my shop is packed? Or do I make them wait an hour or more while I fix other people's bikes who are also waiting? The customer needs to get home and can fix the flat himself and they tend to get mad when I don't let them. But yes, as other mechanics have mentioned, I've had instances where a guy would quickly have his bike in pieces and be asking for tools and whatnot and it would be a mess.


I have never been to a shop that had a repair stand on the sales floor for customers to use. I've seen them on the sales floor for sale, and I've seen stands tucked away in a corner for customer use, but never out in the middle of everything. That would be very, very silly.

I see posts all the time about how no one should feel obligated to support local bike shops. Why should it be the other way, though? Why should I enable people to come into my place of business - where I try to make enough money to stay in business and pay some of my own bills - and install (for free) parts they bought elsewhere? Those places are called bike co-ops. Me, I need to pay the astronomical rent, the utilities, the suppliers, the taxes, the insurance, etc.

As internet business whittles away at our already tiny profits, some shop owners are going the way of installing everything for free and basically turning into the customer's *****. They're the ones who will kill the LBS eventually. Other shop owners have gone the way of the hard-arse - charging for everything. Need your seat raised? That's $5. Need air in your tires (although this one does annoy the hell out of me...buy a damn pump!)? That's $5. Honestly, the people who use the LBS for service probably can't do it themselves. So why beat them up on pricing? Why should they pay for the DBs who use up our time and cost us money? Just get rid of the time/money hogs and treat the real customers fairly. Charge a reasonable price for service and "give away" the easy stuff.

(Kinda went off on a tangent there.... sorry.)


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

MidwestBike said:


> As a shop owner, I have seen similar things happen; although always with a BMX kid. On different occasions, probably 5 or 6 of them have come into the shop, bought grips, tubes, or chains, and then proceeded to flip their bike over and start working on it in the middle of the main traffic aisle. Each time, I told them to move their hoopty-bike to a corner or out in front of the shop (the old shop had a covered entry). Each and every one of them wanted me to match the Dan's Comp price on the parts, too. I suggested to a couple of them that they should buy the parts at Dan's Comp and then install them on their warehouse floor (Dan's Comp isn't far from here).


Haha...we had this at the shop I was working at. The BMX gang would come in a hang out in the shop after school let out. They would work on their bikes on the shop floor. At the same time they would also leave their trash on the floor and not return the tools they used. Not happening any more.


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## MidwestBike (Jan 9, 2014)

RS VR6 said:


> Haha...we had this at the shop I was working at. The BMX gang would come in a hang out in the shop after school let out. They would work on their bikes on the shop floor. At the same time they would also leave their trash on the floor and not return the tools they used. Not happening any more.


I solved the problem. I stopped carrying anything BMX. Half of it was getting stolen anyway.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

We would have missing grips...also all the 5mm hex wrenches would be missing from the hex sets.


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## MidwestBike (Jan 9, 2014)

RS VR6 said:


> We would have missing grips...also all the 5mm hex wrenches would be missing from the hex sets.


I sent three kids to jail (different incidents).

One kid filled a backpack on a day when I was too busy to watch him. Another got a Kink bike. One had grips and pedals. Overall, though, I was literally losing half of my grip inventory every summer. Almost 1/4 of my BMX/fixie chain inventory. 2 pivotal seat posts, 1 pivotal saddle, 5 pairs of eclat or Snafu pedals, 2 or 3 freewheels, and once - somehow - a handlebar.


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## Mr Spanky (May 8, 2014)

I don't know what shops you guys are going to, but around here most shops are packed and the wait list can literally be 3 or 4 weeks out. I'm not saying the shops are making millions, but they sure are busy. It seems to me, the rule of thumb is that if the job is less than 30 min, the mechanic doesn't want to waste his time and would rather just explain it to you and you can do it yourself. 

I'm imagining asking my LBS mechanic to change a housing for $10 and he'd tell me to do it myself or leave the bike and I can pick it up in 3 weeks. Now he wouldn't give me tools and he wouldn't let me start making a huge mess. 

A lot of the shops around here are placed in popular riding areas, so a lot of folks are actively on a ride and experiencing mechanical issues. They want to fix their rig and get back outside - a lot of shops have an area (usually outside) with air and a few basic tools chained to a bench for simple things like flats, mucking with a seat or installing a part you just bought. It's good for business because it keeps the mechanics busy with real work and not 5 minute adjustments.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

monogod said:


> great thread, AZ! :thumbsup:


Beat me to it.


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## twowheelmotion (Feb 10, 2010)

jdbruner said:


> Ding, Ding, Ding! We have a winner! If the guy gets hurt, damages something, etc., the insurance co. would not cover it.


 I work at a shop in the strait-up-hood. I will not hesitate to throw someone out the front door in the event of an "accident".


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## Alkoholger (Nov 2, 2011)

MidwestBike said:


> I solved the problem. I stopped carrying anything BMX. Half of it was getting stolen anyway.


This right here. Is why people are not happy with some LBS's. We are being forced to take away the goodies. And im pretty sure the guy working in the shop with the workstand had a hard thought about if that stand was really needed after the incident.

I dont even adjust handlebars for drop in riders(Not gonna call them costumers when its not something we would charge for) anymore. We had an incident with a screw that snapped. Suddenly im the bad bad boogieman that broke your screw just because i wanted more sales. Its impossible your ungreased, stuck in there since 1883, sitting outside in rain snow whatever yolo man, screw was the reason it broke. Now we have an old old set of hex keys people can borrow if they wanna do it themselfs. Not my fault if anything goes wrong now.

Maybe next time buy your cable housing online and ask them to send loaner tools with it so you can fit it just quick.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Alkoholger said:


> Maybe next time buy your cable housing online and ask them to send loaner tools with it so you can fit it just quick.


Haha, that's a good one!


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Mr Spanky said:


> I don't know what shops you guys are going to, but around here most shops are packed and the wait list can literally be 3 or 4 weeks out. I'm not saying the shops are making millions, but they sure are busy. It seems to me, the rule of thumb is that if the job is less than 30 min, the mechanic doesn't want to waste his time and would rather just explain it to you and you can do it yourself.
> 
> I'm imagining asking my LBS mechanic to change a housing for $10 and he'd tell me to do it myself or leave the bike and I can pick it up in 3 weeks. Now he wouldn't give me tools and he wouldn't let me start making a huge mess.
> 
> A lot of the shops around here are placed in popular riding areas, so a lot of folks are actively on a ride and experiencing mechanical issues. They want to fix their rig and get back outside - a lot of shops have an area (usually outside) with air and a few basic tools chained to a bench for simple things like flats, mucking with a seat or installing a part you just bought. It's good for business because it keeps the mechanics busy with real work and not 5 minute adjustments.


Four week turnaround time!? That's a bit absurd. I can see a couple weeks if you need to order a part. A bike should not be in the shop for three weeks.

If I was a shop owner...there is no way I'd let a random customer wrench on his bike using my tools. What if the guy that doesn't work for me hurts himself or damages his bike using my tools in my shop? Lawsuit?


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Mr Spanky said:


> I think some of you guys are misunderstanding. He didn't go into the back of the mechanic's work area and just help himself to the tools. There's a stand out on the store floor specifically so customers can install the parts they buy - lights, pedals, etc. Cable housing is a part and he was installing it just as if it's a light or fender. It seems to me that this guy was using the stand for its intended purpose. If the layout really is as this guy describes, I'd lean towards his side
> 
> As for the greater issue of people working on their bikes in a shop, I worked at a shop in college and it was a tough one. Most of the time we had at least a half-hour wait if not a lot longer, so asking you to wait could be out of line. One of the most common issues was changing a flat. Someone was out on a ride, got a flat and needed to fix it in order to ride home - Do I let them spread out all over the floor on a Saturday afternoon when my shop is packed? Or do I make them wait an hour or more while I fix other people's bikes who are also waiting? The customer needs to get home and can fix the flat himself and they tend to get mad when I don't let them. But yes, as other mechanics have mentioned, I've had instances where a guy would quickly have his bike in pieces and be asking for tools and whatnot and it would be a mess.


nooooooooooo! too obvious. too soon. too much familiarity/comradery with the OP. plus, the username's a dead giveaway.

you're slippin', pal....


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## Ridefat1981 (Mar 17, 2014)

I am a shop manager and it can actually be an insurance issue, obviously depending on the shops insurance, to let customers use anything in the "shop" area. Also most bike shop guys buy their own tools and it is not cool to just assume it is ok to use them. I do not loan out my tools to any one. And you can't expect a BUISINESS to not charge for parts and service. How do you expect them to stay in business without making money?


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## musikron (Jan 16, 2013)

I am a luthier (stringed instruments instead of bikes) and own my own shop. I also have been known to sell a part or two. I am super helpful to everyone even if I know you won't spend any money with me. 

That said, there is no way this would fly. I can't even fathom what my response would be. The liability alone is enough to shut this idea down. I understand a pump and a couple wrenches is chained to the parking stand out the front door, but that's where the line is drawn.

I also have what I think is a pretty good relationship with my LBS. And I would never even ask much less just throw my bike on one of their stands. 

After thinking it over the most I would ask of them would be to rent me a highly specialized, expensive tool that I would only need once, whatever that is. And that would only be because they were so backed up it would take weeks to get my bike back and I had a trip planned or something.

I mean really, in my line of work parts are much cheaper than the labor, but for bikes it's the other way around. Parts cost a fortune but any wrench can do the labor so it's pretty cheap. Example, acoustic guitar bridge, $20, installation $200+. Pimp fork for your bike, $2000, installation, $20.


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## Bigmatitus (May 9, 2014)

Gee dude, I would.... Get your own repair stand and don't be bogarting other people hard earned tools.


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## Rocky Mtn (Jan 19, 2014)

I was walking by my LPS (local pizza shoppe) the other day and they were not busy and I was hundred, popped inside, made a pie and popped it in the oven.......requested a staff discount and paid for it.....


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)




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## Cabin Fever (Jan 23, 2004)

Sevenrats said:


> For $10 bucks I would have let him do it. I mean it's 10 bucks. You're riding a$1000 (or more) bike and you won't pay $10?
> 
> That being said, bike shop guys are usually totally arrogant. The shop I go to I just expect it going in. I show them something that got broken and they roll their eyes like it's my fault. When I was buying my bike, any bike you're interested in is always ok but not as good as this one over here, which is $1000 more. You ask how much a bike costs and they act like you're a panhandler.
> 
> Our relationship now is kinda cool. They do their elitist act and I roll my eyes at them. It's pretty funny if you don't get mad about it.


Bike shop guys are usually arrogant? Maybe I'm biased from being a "bike shop guy" for the last ~10 years, but that is about as big of a generalization that I've ever heard. Get over yourself - when you go into any shop (or any business, for that matter) you automatically come off acting defensive right away, which becomes super weird for any and all employees trying to assist you.


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## Dainbramage91 (Jul 19, 2010)

Going off of the... he'd probably go back and buy a $5k bike comment.... if the customer had already bought a $5k bike and had an existing relationship with the shop I can see how it may not be that big of a deal. However, if it was a first time meeting between the shop and customer I can see how it'd be a bit of a slap in the face to the techs. I think it's all in the presentation. If they guy had shown up with a case of beer and asked if he could pop the cable in on the stand outside it may have gone down differently as well. Also, good point on the local pizza shop comment.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Cabin Fever said:


> Bike shop guys are usually arrogant? Maybe I'm biased from being a "bike shop guy" for the last ~10 years, but that is about as big of a generalization that I've ever heard. Get over yourself - when you go into any shop (or any business, for that matter) you automatically come off acting defensive right away, which becomes super weird for any and all employees trying to assist you.


I was actually more interested in finding out whose fault it was for breaking his parts.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Dood, at least you didn't lean it against a tree where you might damage some bark - taking the stand was the only way to go


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Rocky Mtn said:


> I was walking by my LPS (local pizza shoppe) the other day and they were not busy and I was hundred, popped inside, made a pie and popped it in the oven.......requested a staff discount and paid for it.....


poor form

If you were thousand, I might let it slide 
then again hundred could be pretty good - how many you got?


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Ridefat1981 said:


> How do you expect them to stay in business without making money?


That's what I say when trying to defend the FED!!


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## roverdoc (Jan 6, 2008)

Wow. I hope the op is just trolling but have a feeling he is not. That is like buying tires from a tire shop and driving into the garage and throwing your car on the lift and saying "I got this" The shop guy was polite to offer to do the work for 10 bucks as I would have charged you much more for the entitlement tax


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

roverdoc said:


> Wow. I hope the op is just trolling but have a feeling he is not. That is like buying tires from a tire shop and driving into the garage and throwing your car on the lift and saying "I got this" The shop guy was polite to offer to do the work for 10 bucks as I would have charged you much more for the entitlement tax





OP said:


> I proceed to put it on the bike stand they have on the open floor


This wasn't like a shop stand - they don't have lifts in the customer area of any tire shop I have been to


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

gatorgrizz27 said:


> Exactly, the free labor rumor will spread like wildfire amongst certain groups of friends and drive everyone to your shop to install their online purchased parts for free.
> 
> You know what is good for business? Charging a fair price (like $10), getting you in and out quickly, answering your questions, and treating you with respect. Having you go tell your friends that they had what you needed and didn't rip you off to send a bit of business their way. I'm sure they are fine without your money, you're the kind of customer that is more trouble than you're worth, I've dealt with plenty and gotten much better at weeding them out.


I have to disagree. I don't know the OP or his situation, but the bike shop owner knows a repeat customer. If he installed the cable, builds rapport, etc. and then someone knew showed up wanting their stem installed there would be a fee.

He doesn't know the shop owner.
Part didn't come from the shop.
The new person would then need to build rapport with the shop and purchase parts there to get the same deal as the guy who purchased the cable.

I do agree you have to weed them out and not feed the crazy peeps, but there is also a middle ground.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

This is definitely a troll thread, but I'll play. If you can change your cable in 5 minutes, I have a suggestion that will keep everyone happy. Keep your bike outside in the parking lot, and change the cable. Put the shifter and derailleur in the smallest cog, install the cable, remove the slack from the cable, and fine tune it from there. A stand isn't needed. It does make it simpler, but hop on the bike and ride it around the parking lot to see if it shifts correctly. Common sense isn't so common. 

Good trolling AZ.


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## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

I completely and absolutely stand with the OP on this. 

I know exactly what he went thru, because I had a very similar experience recently when I went into a club called 'Platinum Douche' here. After putting a whole dollar in a girl's G String for waving her butt in my face for a few minutes, I purchased an entire 'Lap Dance' for 20 bucks, which got me all worked up. There was another girl sitting close by, and she was not doing anything at the time, so I went over, put her over the table and started to have my way with her. Well, almost immediately, a whole group of rather large people grabbed me, took me out back and beat the crap out of me! I mean, the other girl was not doing anything at the time!!! I certainly won't be going back there any time soon, even if they do have a wheelchair ramp...


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## holyPT (Dec 15, 2013)

rockerc said:


> I completely and absolutely stand with the OP on this.
> 
> I know exactly what he went thru, because I had a very similar experience recently when I went into a club called 'Platinum Douche' here. After putting a whole dollar in a girl's G String for waving her butt in my face for a few minutes, I purchased an entire 'Lap Dance' for 20 bucks, which got me all worked up. There was another girl sitting close by, and she was not doing anything at the time, so I went over, put her over the table and started to have my way with her. Well, almost immediately, a whole group of rather large people grabbed me, took me out back and beat the crap out of me! I mean, the other girl was not doing anything at the time!!! I certainly won't be going back there any time soon, even if they do have a wheelchair ramp...


*LMAO*

This was so good!

On topic: I didn't even know in the US you guys had places where they would give you tools and space to do your own mechanical work.

I just try to be friendly with every mechanic so they fast track my stuff, and its great when they do!


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## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

Sorry but that is like rude and not right what the op did


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## [email protected] (May 28, 2010)

The fact that you ASSUMED it was your stand to use probably shot you in the foot. Do you buy food at a store with a nice deli and proceed to walk back and start cooking up your asparagus in their kitchen? No...I think you're kind of arrogant in your presumption that ANYONE should let you use their tools and space. Grow up, learn some social graces and then you'll find more of the world open up to you. As long as your belief is that its your "right" to use such tools, folks will look oddly at you and not ASSUME good things about you! Hope this helps...happy trails!


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## HitmenOnlyInc (Jul 20, 2012)

Having watched this thread for the last 6 days I am sure the OP is a troll. Zero posts from him to defend his actions since day one.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

I believe we've been powned.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

HitmenOnlyInc said:


> Zero posts from him to defend his actions since day one.


only true if you ignore his socks.


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## SocratesDiedTrolling (Sep 15, 2012)

I used to frequent a shop which had a stand on the open floor for customer use. It even had a tool tray, pump, and some lube there with it. It was mostly used for minor tweaks, airing tires, etc. The most invasive procedure I performed there was mounting a rear rack I had just purchased there. It was a pretty nice deal. I wish my current LBS offered that. I suppose you guys are right on the liability aspect though; if a bike fell off the stand and hurt someone for example.


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## Hazerd Hownd (May 7, 2010)

I feel as violated as that poor stripper that rockerc took advantage of, but without getting the crap beat out of me. Socks suck!


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## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)

Hazerd Hownd said:


> I feel as violated as that poor stripper that rockerc took advantage of, but without getting the crap beat out of me. Socks suck!


Specially when it there is a gang of socks. Luckily getting hit with a sock gang doesn't leave a mark.


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## Hazerd Hownd (May 7, 2010)

deke505 said:


> Specially when it there is a gang of socks. Luckily getting hit with a sock gang doesn't leave a mark.


Tell that to pvt pyle...


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## WA-CO (Nov 23, 2013)




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## donalson (Apr 13, 2004)

my old shop in Pensacola I'd do something similar, but I had a long standing relationship with the manager (now owner) and even with that friendship if I was going to use a stand I would always ask to make sure it was ok... I also spent many Hrs in there on busy days helping where I could, doing small tweaks on customer bikes, helping load and unload customer bikes etc when he was understaffed... and even though I live hundreds of miles away I make it a point to stop in and visit if I'm in the area and to send business his way if/when someone in his area that is wanting to get into cycling.

granted this is the same owner I've seen point people to CL for a good used bike if they scoffed at the prices of his bikes, he'd look at the listing and even look over the bike for free if they brought it in... his thoughts where in the mean time they'd likely buy small things from him including service work and a year or so when they wanted to upgrade he would be the first stop... he's also a a big part of the MTB club in the area... he just wants people riding and enjoying themselves...


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## donalson (Apr 13, 2004)

bad andy said:


> So last week, I bought a breast of turkey, you know the kind in meat section like the deli uses to slice, but unsliced - it's cheaper that way. I walk to the deli and go behind the counter to slice my fresh, new, economically smart turkey breast purchase (I am a paying customer afterall) The deli guys says "hey you can't do that"
> 
> I said, "what are you talking about? I just bought this turkey and now I am going to slice it. I am a paying customer and I am entitled to use your machinery myself to prepare my turkey"
> 
> Doesn't sound quite right does it?


the funny thing... having worked in a deli at a large Grocery store chain... we'd slice it for free, unwrap it, slice to your specs, wrap it and attach the original packaging UPC so you pay the same as if it was in the factory wrapping... pretty sure that is fairly standard business practice at the big grocery stores.


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## WheelieWonka (Aug 27, 2003)

LOL. OP is a wanker....


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## Sevenrats (Jan 2, 2014)

Cabin Fever said:


> Bike shop guys are usually arrogant? Maybe I'm biased from being a "bike shop guy" for the last ~10 years, but that is about as big of a generalization that I've ever heard. Get over yourself - when you go into any shop (or any business, for that matter) you automatically come off acting defensive right away, which becomes super weird for any and all employees trying to assist you.


Yes bike shop guys are usually arrogant. Elitist too. Of course what I said is a generalization which is why it's prefaced with "usually". Otherwise it would say "always". 
Clearly by the way you responded you are one of those guys. So I go into the shop as a customer and get attitude from the employees and I have to get over myself. Really?

Just my experience in just about every bike shop I've been to.


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## kpnc2001 (Oct 21, 2012)

I am on the side of the bike shop....I know I am lucky, we have three great shops in my city and they all try to accommodate your needs. I want them to be in business because it promotes community in the bike world and plus I want them to be there when I really need them. Sure, I can buy parts off the internet or even the bike shop, but I feel $10 is well worth the investment that I am helping my Bike Shop stay afloat. 

To me, it would be the same to buy an auto part, then pull into the garage and use the hydraulic lift.....


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## monty797 (May 11, 2004)

Its not uncommon for bike shops to not allow customers to use their repair equipment. Most of the times it has nothing to do with the shop being "elitist jerks" or anything like that. It comes down to liability, if you somehow manage to hurt yourself in the process of using their gear its going to cost that shop a lot of money in increased insurance premiums and potential legal troubles. 

I know that some insurance policies won't allow for customers to use the equipment at all. 

Just goes to show you that most of the times there are a ton of factors that you need to take into consideration in instances like this and realize that maybe you don't have all the information.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

We've been trolled. I knew this thread had that scent. I love socks!


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Rod said:


> We've been trolled. I knew this thread had that scent. I love socks!


the icing on the cake is that despite this being crystal clear people are STILL getting hooked... :lol:


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

Rod said:


> We've been trolled. I knew this thread had that scent. I love socks!


There are _real_ threads on here? I don't believe it.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

donalson said:


> my old shop in Pensacola I'd do something similar, but I had a long standing relationship with the manager (now owner) and even with that friendship if I was going to use a stand I would always ask to make sure it was ok... I also spent many Hrs in there on busy days helping where I could, doing small tweaks on customer bikes, helping load and unload customer bikes etc when he was understaffed... and even though I live hundreds of miles away I make it a point to stop in and visit if I'm in the area and to send business his way if/when someone in his area that is wanting to get into cycling.
> 
> granted this is the same owner I've seen point people to CL for a good used bike if they scoffed at the prices of his bikes, he'd look at the listing and even look over the bike for free if they brought it in... his thoughts where in the mean time they'd likely buy small things from him including service work and a year or so when they wanted to upgrade he would be the first stop... he's also a a big part of the MTB club in the area... he just wants people riding and enjoying themselves...


I've seen this as well, but it only happens if you have that relationship with the shop.


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## deke505 (Jul 29, 2012)




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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

donalson said:


> granted this is the same owner I've seen point people to CL for a good used bike if they scoffed at the prices of his bikes, he'd look at the listing and even look over the bike for free if they brought it in... his thoughts where in the mean time they'd likely buy small things from him including service work and a year or so when they wanted to upgrade he would be the first stop... he's also a a big part of the MTB club in the area... he just wants people riding and enjoying themselves...


My guy has the same attitude. He accepts bikes as trade-ins on new purchases, and always has about 20 used bikes on a rack at the front of the store. As soon as he gets that feeling of losing them due to the price, he'll walk them out there to see if he had anything used that will work, and will point them in the direction of the kind of bike they need if he doesn't. Most of them come back for parts, repairs, and tune-ups. You don't have to sell a bike to make money off a customer, you only need to be helpful.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Zowie said:


> There are _real_ threads on here? I don't believe it.


Honestly, it doesn't matter. This forum is about characters having their say, whether or not those characters are caricatures makes no real difference since we are all on a keyboard and not face to face. Besides, some of these comments are like Sriracha on over easy eggs, saucy but with nutrition. Your gut will tell you what you feel and your brain will tell you what to type. The rest is just comedy, or tragedy. It just depends on your greek theater meter.


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## MidwestBike (Jan 9, 2014)

Sevenrats said:


> Yes bike shop guys are usually arrogant. Elitist too. Of course what I said is a generalization which is why it's prefaced with "usually". Otherwise it would say "always".
> Clearly by the way you responded you are one of those guys. So I go into the shop as a customer and get attitude from the employees and I have to get over myself. Really?
> 
> Just *my experience in just about every bike shop I've been to*.


If it happens to you at every shop, maybe the problem isn't the shop employees... Just sayin'. Come in without an attitude and I'll do whatever I can to help. Come in with an attitude and I'll give you the least amount of service possible - or I'll throw you out of my store.


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## MSLKauai (Dec 17, 2009)

ZmyDust said:


> Sounds to me the guy wasn't to interested in building their customer base. A good experience there and maybe later you'd come back and buy a $5k bike, but I'm assuming you won't do that now. Who knows maybe he's got so many people lined up at the door to buy those expensive bikes he doesn't have stand time for somebody like you only paying a few bikes. I've been in the service based sales industry long enough to know that there's alot of people there that just don't belong. Note I've never worked in the bike industry so this is outside looking in.


^^^^^^^^^^
This. Bike shops live and die on locally generated word of mouth. Developing a reputation of not being customer friendly might save you a few bucks here or there but you'll lose the big bucks down the road. The best bike shops I've used over the years are the ones that put out a really friendly vibe, are eager to help and don't nickel and dime you on the small stuff.


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## [email protected] (May 28, 2010)

MidwestBike said:


> If it happens to you at every shop, maybe the problem isn't the shop employees... Just sayin'. Come in without an attitude and I'll do whatever I can to help. Come in with an attitude and I'll give you the least amount of service possible - or I'll throw you out of my store.


Well, if your experience is that most bike shop employees are arrogant, it would make sense that you have a chip on your shoulder...That is not my experience...the guys at shops that tend to be weird are few and far between up here in Northern New England...and they don't typically last long. So, sorry you live somewhere where you're the cool dude in town and everyone else is a twerp...And I don't work at a bike shop...in fact, I'm the doofus who makes their work harder by trying to fix my own sh*t...they tend to be my heroes...and the few who deem themselves above me in the process? They don't get that occasional six-pack that I toss the way of the cool dudes for bailing my sorry ass out just before a ride!!! SO, hope you find the one decent grease monkey in your neck of the woods and treat em right, they'll never let you down if you do!!!


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Max_winner1 said:


> What are your thoughts on this.


 Mom should have hugged you more so you wouldn't have turned out so angry.  I actually regret reading this.


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## [email protected] (May 28, 2010)

hahahahahahaha....yeah, I'm SOOO angry....hahhahahahahah....you're funny dude!


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> hahahahahahaha....yeah, I'm SOOO angry....hahhahahahahah....you're funny dude!


 Wrong sock puppet, fail.


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## MidwestBike (Jan 9, 2014)

tiretracks said:


> Wrong sock puppet, fail.


Dude has a problem with quoting people, apparently. He quoted me when he should have quoted the post that I quoted.

Add that to the use of the wrong user id for the reply you quoted, and it's obvious that we're dealing with someone not too far removed from his simian ancestry....


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Fail x 2.


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## [email protected] (May 28, 2010)

MidwestBike said:


> Dude has a problem with quoting people, apparently. He quoted me when he should have quoted the post that I quoted.
> 
> Add that to the use of the wrong user id for the reply you quoted, and it's obvious that we're dealing with someone not too far removed from his simian ancestry....


I think you both right...jeezus, getting old isn't suppose to make you revert back into an ape, but maybe that's just what's happening...as I re-read some of the postings, it dawned on me that I may still be compromised by poor decisions made when I was still a youth...you know the kind. So, my apologies to those still scratching their heads...My notes were intended for the guy who thinks he should be able to waltz into any shop and pretend it's his dad's workshop...to the rest of you, thanks for your patience...happy trails and I'll try to get it right next time!!!


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