# Ebike fires



## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

I just read a report where over 100 fires in NYC last year were started by the batteries on ebikes. What causes that many batteries to go up in flames? What precautions do ebikers take to keep it from happening?


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

Dude, you just started a dumpster fire. Prepare for this thread to be extinguished.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Ratt said:


> Dude, you just started a dumpster fire. Prepare for this thread to be extinguished.


This is a hot topic that begs a good smoldering.


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## Mikes70 (Oct 24, 2016)

My guess is mainly cheap ebikes.


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## Jipman (12 mo ago)

Interesting article on the topic - seems ebikes being overcharged and it says most fires come from restaurant workers using them all day long and my guess as others have said is they are probably using cheap junk ebikes with poor QC and safety control. 









Fires from exploding e-bike batteries multiply in NYC — sometimes fatally


New York City is on track this year to record twice as many fires caused by e-bike and e-scooter batteries as last year, and four times as many as the year before.




www.npr.org


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Chinese knock offs probably.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Battery said:


> Chinese knock offs probably.


When everything is made in China, everything is a Chinese knock-off.


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## BackWoodsHick (4 mo ago)

At least 38 were injured in a Manhattan apartment building blaze that was caused by a lithium-ion battery, officials said | CNN


At least 38 people were injured in a Manhattan apartment building fire Saturday morning, which authorities believe was caused by a lithium-ion battery connected to a micromobility device.




www.cnn.com


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

When a bullet hits a battery just right, it ignites.


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## walkerwalker (Jul 17, 2020)

They had their ebikes on a rack on their Teslas.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

walkerwalker said:


> They had their ebikes on a rack on their Teslas.


That would be safer than this Subaru I passed.


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## dryk1t (7 mo ago)

This is just another bash e-bike thread based on nothing by a petulant individual. I too am bored however, so lets play.

300 people a year in NYC are injured by bike riders. Sounds like bikes should be banned there.

Oh wait, relevance matters, right?

100 bike battery related fires in a population density of 9 million? Going to go out on a limb and say that they're a crazy amount of pre-built and custom made e-bikes in that population.

Sounds like e-bike batteries almost never fail when you look at it like that.

Thanks for pointing out how safe and low failure rate they seem to have.


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## walkerwalker (Jul 17, 2020)

Well if you're gonna look at statistics that way, you'd have to compare to how many non ebike bikes have started fires. (regular bikes, real bikes, non-assisted, human powered? what is the PC term nowadays?)

I'm gonna say maybe in all of that 9 million population, maybe 1? Perhaps a hot disc brake got to close to a twig, next to a gasoline spill. Still, that'd mean 100x more ebikes have started fires.


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## dryk1t (7 mo ago)

walkerwalker said:


> Well if you're gonna look at statistics that way, you'd have to compare to how many non ebike bikes have started fires. (regular bikes, real bikes, non-assisted, human powered? what is the PC term nowadays?)
> 
> I'm gonna say maybe in all of that 9 million population, maybe 1? Perhaps a hot disc brake got to close to a twig, next to a gasoline spill. Still, that'd mean 100x more ebikes have started fires.


Broken down by population, on average there should be around 5,500 car fires ever year in NYC.

You are 98% safer from fires by owning an e-bike than owning a car in NYC.

Let's say your hypothesis of 1 non e-bike spontaneously combusts, that is 99.9% safer than having a car when it comes to fires. That is less than 2% of a difference over e-bikes. Yikes!


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## dryk1t (7 mo ago)

Roughly 40,000 fires in NYC every year. 27,000 of them structural and 13,000 non structural.

100 of them are e-bikes.

Lets get all scared now.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Who wants to live in NYC?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Shark said:


> Who wants to live in NYC?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


Well, nine million people do, but according to statistics, there’s 7 billion in the world, so it’s really like no one lives there at all


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## TOGALOCK (8 mo ago)

This is not an e bike problem. It’s a problem with lithium ion batteries, and people not understanding how to maintain them.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

“like sands through an hourglass, these are the days of our lives"


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> “like sands through an hourglass, these are the days of our lives"


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

_At least 38 people were injured in a Manhattan apartment building fire Saturday morning, which authorities believe was caused by a lithium-ion battery connected to a micromobility device._

Is that what we're calling ebikes now? Actually, I read the other day that all kinds of battery powered scooters, one-wheels, etc are being generically lumped together and labelled "ebikes".

This will probably be an ongoing issue, even if they take steps such as outlawing the sale of used batteries. Easy to see the appeal of mmds for couriers/deliverers and with the wages they are paid there will be a market for used batteries.

And yes, dryk1t, we know this is not an issue with proper emtbs (mmdmtbs is kinda long to type).


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Ratt said:


> Dude, you just started a dumpster fire. Prepare for this thread to be extinguished.


Yepper


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Sir kayakalot said:


> I just read a report where over 100 fires in NYC last year were started by the batteries on ebikes. What causes that many batteries to go up in flames? What precautions do ebikers take to keep it from happening?


Four broad categories of causes of high capacity battery fires:

Manufacturing Defect
Charging Problem
Physical Damage
Water Damage
What I'd do to mitigate the fire risk:

Read and follow any owner's manual info you get with the bike.
Don't buy an e-bike that's low quality or used with a dodgy history.
Don't leave unattended when charging.
If the battery has potentially been damaged [impact or water] have it professionally inspected and store somewhere safe until you know it's okay to use.
If you notice any changes in the way the battery operates or charges stop using it and get it inspected.
If you can...store away from where people sleep and somewhere with a smoke detector.
There is a lot of energy in one of these high capacity batteries so you want to educate yourself on how to operate/care for them properly and you want to respect the fire potential.


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

chazpat said:


> _At least 38 people were injured in a Manhattan apartment building fire Saturday morning, which authorities believe was caused by a lithium-ion battery connected to a micromobility device._
> 
> Is that what we're calling ebikes now? Actually, I read the other day that all kinds of battery powered scooters, one-wheels, etc are being generically lumped together and labelled "ebikes".
> 
> ...


Yup, ABC's version of this story said "micro-mobility device, such as an electric bike or scooter". I'm sure they lump in Sur-Ron's and kid's toy electric mini-bikes too. Hard to know what statistics are from what kind of device.

The reality is that anytime energy is stored in high concentration, there is a risk of an uncontrolled release of energy.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Sir kayakalot said:


> I just read a report where over 100 fires in NYC last year were started by the batteries on ebikes. What causes that many batteries to go up in flames? What precautions do ebikers take to keep it from happening?


They found this with both ecars and ebikes on the grand scale, following hurrycane Ian...

Annnnd, Vik says, don't buy a Dodge!!


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

dryk1t said:


> This is just another bash e-bike thread based on nothing by a petulant individual. I too am bored however, so lets play.


Some of my alarm system sensors have lithium 123 batteries. My head lamp has triple A lithium. Have a Volt parked in the garage. The phone I'm currently using to post this for Christ's sake....btw, everyone on a commercial flight has a lithium battery on their person.

This is beyond stupid.

How many Rises, Levos, Hecklers have caused lithium fires in NYC?

There are over 65,000 delivery workers in NYC. How many on cheap, dangerous E-bikes. How many of us EMTB riders are riding these on single track? ↓










_"Reputable brands undergo extensive performance and safety testing to comply with UL solutions UL 2849, the Standard for Electrical Systems for eBikes. However, black market or cheap purchases may not include a certified Battery Management System that stops charging when a battery is full or overheating"_

seems like Kyakslot is for more government regulation on cheap Chinese imports.

The class one E-MTB I ride is not the problem.
_







_
Wu Tang is still for the children btw.


In case you were wondering.


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## BojackHorseman (Oct 7, 2021)

Hmmm, my collection of 8 bikes has never gone up in flames. (My quads have!)

When did our Mntn bike trails allow silent motorcycles, anyway??


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Wut happened to the dumpster fires??


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

walkerwalker said:


> (regular bikes, real bikes, non-assisted, human powered? what is the PC term nowadays?)


Just call them what they are....bikes.

E-bikes are mopeds.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

evdog said:


> Just call them what they are....bikes.
> 
> E-bikes are mopeds.


Obviously, that didn't werk...


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Oh look, another anti-ebike post that has nothing to do with eMTB's. Shocking! 

What we have here is a collection of low income people buying the cheapest batteries available, which are generally imported from questionable sources, and then subjecting them to the most extreme use case possible....daily high load use, 100% charge to 0%, and then left on cheap chargers overnight causing them to be overcharged and occasionally burst into flames. I suspect that many of these fires are also a result of old wiring in old buildings being overloaded by people charging several batteries at once. I've seen pictures of places with 10+ batteries lined up and charging simultaneously, plugged into multiple power strips that are ultimately connected to just one outlet.

None of those things matter though. That wasn't the point of the OP. Like much of the political hackery out there these days, the goal here is just to draw a false association, then walk away. Standard operating procedure for the morally flexible propagandists that walk among us.


.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Ok


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

vikb said:


> Four broad categories of causes of high capacity battery fires:
> 
> Manufacturing Defect
> Charging Problem
> ...


This summer spent some time in the interior of BC - buddy had a ramp setup to jump a bike into the lake - was awesome trying to do a backflip.

If i seal.my batteries I can use my ebike right?


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## Ripbird (Jun 25, 2020)

My bet is that none of those fires were tied to any quality Emtb's ridden by users on this forum, so this thread is mostly pointless, but thanks for the heads up.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

MTBR is the source of more ebike fires than any other source, hands down


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Sir kayakalot said:


> Well, nine million people do, but according to statistics, there’s 7 billion in the world, so it’s really like no one lives there at all


I think everyone can fit in Texas if we try hard enough...


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

The greater concern lies in ebike fires in the drought-ridden West...


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## OttaCee (Jul 24, 2013)

PSA - On industry and customer wide changes on eBike fire safety regulations that are currently being discussed. 

Work in the life safety industry and since ive designed fire alarm products (and biker), been asked to review new code requirements on the equipment side of eBikes and customer use. 
Why this topic of eBike fire safety has come up? In NYC, theres been 130 fire alone this year from lithium batteries in eBikes and scooters with some fires leading to deaths of children. In London and other cities overseas where eBikes are more common, there's been discussions banning them inside homes to due to fires.

What are the changes coming that might impact eBikes? Requirements for eBikes batteries and their chargers to be UL Listed. If you plug anything (TV, appliances, lambs, etc) into the wall from a quality manufacture it will likely have a UL sticker to show its been throughly tested against fire risk. This means two things: cheap eBikes might be phased out and quality eBike manufactures spend the money to get their products UL listed passing costs to consumer.

I have eBike now, what I can I do to reduce my risk of lithim fire? Check out your battery pack and charger, see if they carry ANY type of testing lab certifications. If it has UL or ETL, thats a good sign its safe. If you dont have any testing lab certifications, try to charge outside, charge only to 100% and dont leave on after fully charged, and dont try to fully drain your battery. When battery is dead and you apply charge it works hard to get the battery to where it can trickle towards 100%. My goal has been get it on the charger once battery life is 20%.

Nice little article to get more background why myself and others are pushing for safety standards:




__





NFPA Journal – Full Throttle, Fall 2022






www.nfpa.org


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

_CJ said:


> Oh look, another anti-ebike post that has nothing to do with eMTB's. Shocking!
> 
> What we have here is a collection of low income people buying the cheapest batteries available, which are generally imported from questionable sources, and then subjecting them to the most extreme use case possible....daily high load use, 100% charge to 0%, and then left on cheap chargers overnight causing them to be overcharged and occasionally burst into flames. I suspect that many of these fires are also a result of old wiring in old buildings being overloaded by people charging several batteries at once. I've seen pictures of places with 10+ batteries lined up and charging simultaneously, plugged into multiple power strips that are ultimately connected to just one outlet.
> 
> ...


It appears that you read way too much into the OP than what was said. He simply stated that there have been fires from e-bikes charging and then asked about potential solutions. I didn't read anywhere that he was against e-bikes.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Counterfeit and cheaply made Li batteries are a major issue, batteries are possibly the most expensive single part of ebikes and people can't be trusted to be honest in business even if it means lives lost. 

IMO, a main reason to buy a major brand ebike is the battery and charger quality. It can mean the difference between a battery lasting a decade vs a year or two, and I'd guess they're less likely to ignite as well.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Curveball said:


> It appears that you read way too much into the OP than what was said. He simply stated that there have been fires from e-bikes charging and then asked about potential solutions. I didn't read anywhere that he was against e-bikes.


He has a well documented history of making **** comments about ebikes and the people who ride them whenever the opportunity arises.

Intellectual curiosity had nothing to do with him starting this thread. It's a smear, plain and simple.


.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

_CJ said:


> He has a well documented history of making **** comments about ebikes and the people who ride them whenever the opportunity arises.
> 
> Intellectual curiosity had nothing to do with him starting this thread. It's a smear, plain and simple.
> 
> ...


Well, that’s BS. My brother in law (with cancer) and some of my very best friends who are 60-70 years old have them and I totally support them. They are absolutely fantastic for people that really need them. I’m sure I’ll need one some day. What I don’t like about them is the lazy kids riding them and tearing up the trails and riding disrespectful towards slower riders and hikers. I also have a problem with people that can’t admit it is a motor bike, since it has a motor.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Sir kayakalot said:


> Well, that’s BS. My brother in law (with cancer) and some of my very best friends who are 60-70 years old have them and I totally support them. They are absolutely fantastic for people that really need them. I’m sure I’ll need one some day. What I don’t like about them is the lazy kids riding them and tearing up the trails and riding disrespectful towards slower riders and hikers. I also have a problem with people that can’t admit it is a motor bike, since it has a motor.


Thanks for confirming your view on ebikes, and the people who ride them. You don't like them, or the "lazy overweight enduro-bros" who ride them. That's the reason you created this thread. To cast ebikes in a negative light.

I'm curious, do you also hate "enduro-bros" on analog bikes who "ride them - tearing up the trails and riding disrespectful towards slower riders and hikers", or is it just the motor that makes it offensive? Because I can guarantee there are a hell of a lot more analog bikers riding that way than ebikers. Jerks are jerks, it's not the bike that's the problem.


.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

You’re too triggered and hard headed CJ. I’m not gonna engage you tonight


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

TOGALOCK said:


> This is not an e bike problem. It’s a problem with lithium ion batteries, and people not understanding how to maintain them.


In 2019, a dive boat caught fire off California killing 34 people. The cause was lithium ion batteries. I was drinking beer at LAX with a girl who worked for the company later that year. She told me the electrical system wasn't designed to handle almost 100 cell phones, cameras and strobes charging at once.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

milehi said:


> In 2019, a dive boat caught fire off California killing 34 people. The cause was lithium ion batteries. I was drinking beer at LAX with a girl who worked for the company later that year. She told me the electrical system wasn't designed to handle almost 100 cell phones, cameras and strobes charging at once.


Hey milehi, will you please return your previous avatar to your MTBR account?
I like it much better than this new foo foo fish bone avatar, whatever it is. Thanks, brutha.  
=sParty


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Sparticus said:


> Hey milehi, will you please return your previous avatar to your MTBR account?
> I like it much better than this new foo foo fish bone avatar, whatever it is. Thanks, brutha.
> =sParty


Lol. I will. That was something I just put up after account troubles. It's an Icelandic magical Stave.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

milehi said:


> Lol. I will. That was something I just put up after account troubles. It's an Icelandic magical Stave.


Thanks, man! Good to have you back. 
=sParty


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## dryk1t (7 mo ago)

_CJ said:


> He has a well documented history of making **** comments about ebikes and the people who ride them whenever the opportunity arises.


I have just started making use of the ignore feature. Honestly... it's a beautiful thing haha.

I have pretty much wiped out the accounts that just post 20 comments a day because this is their life and they need to insert some comment onto literally everything, regularly pointless, and many like the OP of this thread, just trying to stir the pot with junk data.

The last couple of days the feed has actually been, clean, and nice lol


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

dryk1t said:


> I have just started making use of the ignore feature. Honestly... it's a beautiful thing haha.
> 
> I have pretty much wiped out the accounts that just post 20 comments a day because this is their life and they need to insert some comment onto literally everything, regularly pointless, and many like the OP of this thread, just trying to stir the pot with junk data.
> 
> The last couple of days the feed has actually been, clean, and nice lol


yeah, my ignore list is dozens of users deep. Wish it was a block function instead of ignore though.


.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

dryk1t said:


> I have just started making use of the ignore feature. Honestly... it's a beautiful thing haha.
> 
> I have pretty much wiped out the accounts that just post 20 comments a day because this is their life and they need to insert some comment onto literally everything, regularly pointless, and many like the OP of this thread, just trying to stir the pot with junk data.
> 
> The last couple of days the feed has actually been, clean, and nice lol


Bah...you'll miss out on great content by hiding Kayakalot.


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## Haggis (Jan 21, 2004)

davec113 said:


> Counterfeit and cheaply made Li batteries are a major issue, batteries are possibly the most expensive single part of ebikes and people can't be trusted to be honest in business even if it means lives lost.
> 
> IMO, a main reason to buy a major brand ebike is the battery and charger quality. It can mean the difference between a battery lasting a decade vs a year or two, and I'd guess they're less likely to ignite as well.


Chinese authorities are cracking down on ebikes/escooters after a major increase in deaths from lithium battery fires. I don't think they will be able to solve the problem with their loose manufacturing regulatory environment... 

CCTV data show that as many as 6,462 fires were caused by the bicycle batteries in China from January to July of this year alone.
At 3:00 a.m. on Sept. 20, a fire broke out in a residence in Tongzhou District, Beijing, killing the upstairs neighbors’ entire family of five. The cause of the fire was the lithium-ion battery from the family’s e-bike, which exploded and caught fire while it was being recharged in their apartment.
According to state media Dazhong Daily, since 2009, there have been more than 70 e-bike fire incidents in China that resulted in at least three deaths, combining to a total of nearly 400 deaths. On Apr. 24, 2018, a fire in Qingyuan City, Guangdong Province, killed 18 people, and on Sept. 25, 2017, a fire in Taizhou City, Zhejiang Province, killed 11.
The latest data from China’s Ministry of Emergency Management suggested that the leading causes of fires were electrical failure and spontaneous combustion from e-bike batteries, which accounted for 62.1 percent and 23.5 percent of the total number of e-bike fire incidents respectively. Overcharging, over-discharging, and short-circuiting are some of the primary causes of electrical failures in batteries.
According to public information, the two primary types of batteries used in electric bicycles in China are lead-acid and lithium-ion (Li-ion). Both types of battery are quite safe when manufacturing quality conforms to specifications and safety features are implemented.









China’s 300 Million E-Bikes Cause Alarming Number of Fires


China has the largest number of electric bicycles (e-bikes) in the world. However, the number of fire incidents ...




www.theepochtimes.com


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## dryk1t (7 mo ago)

Haggis said:


> "removed parroted article data"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The fear mongering is hilarious. It also shows how gullible people are into being afraid.

So in a population of over 1.4 billion people, with over 300 million e-bikes with annual sales of over 30 million new ones hitting the market... there have been 70 fires resulting in deaths since 2009. Most of those deaths were the result of those fires breaking out in (let's pretend they were to code) apartment blocks / shared living accomodation.

Ever checked out those mass produced dirt cheap transport e-bikes? Huge amounts of them are made with recycled/repurposed 18650 un-protected series linked batteries.

Most of those courier / business linked e-bikes have after market modifications to increase their battery capacity.

That article also states that there are approximately 12,000 fires a year caused by these e-bikes caught on CCTV. Let's go crazy and times that number by 10. Let's pretend the world is literally catching on fire from these dangerous e-bikes. Let's pretend 120,000 fires in China are caused by these dangerous e-bikes.

If there were 120,000 fires caused by e-bikes, that means 0.04% of e-bikes in China are catching on fire ever year. 0.04%

Now.. we aren't talking about 120,000 fires caused by e-bikes, that is an extremely over inflated number, 10x higher than estimated figures caught on CCTV, I did this because lets face it, a lot of fires probably aren't caught on camera.

Being worried about e-bikes catching on fire is the equivalent of being a flat-earther.

I don't even own or want to own e-bikes, but the anti e-bike sentiment on MTBR is hilarious.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

dryk1t said:


> The fear mongering is hilarious. It also shows how gullible people are into being afraid.
> 
> So in a population of over 1.4 billion people, with over 300 million e-bikes with annual sales of over 30 million new ones hitting the market... there have been 70 fires resulting in deaths since 2009. Most of those deaths were the result of those fires breaking out in (let's pretend they were to code) apartment blocks / shared living accomodation.
> 
> ...


.04% is 1 in 2500, which is a horrifically high failure rate for such a consequential issue.


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## dryk1t (7 mo ago)

davec113 said:


> .04% is 1 in 2500, which is a horrifically high failure rate for such a consequential issue.


You mean the figure I inflated by 10 times? Running off these articles you all seem to love parroting so much, data backs up 0.004%

That is 0.1 in 2500 or 1 in 25,000

The fires that are mostly caused by incredibly poor battery construction standards and a rampant, zero safety after market modification process to increase battery sizes on production bikes. You know, the real problems the articles point to, not simply being e-bikes 

You lot are grasping at straws to keep this alive.

But don't worry, some privileged American, Australian or other wealthy nation citizen will happily blabber on about the fears and dangers of these situations using totally junk data from other countries when at the same time they would never own anything less than the kind of bike that most of people on earth can barely afford the value of in a car, let alone a toy for the weekend.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

dryk1t said:


> You mean the figure I inflated by 10 times? Running off these articles you all seem to love parroting so much, data backs up 0.004%
> 
> That is 0.1 in 2500 or 1 in 25,000
> 
> ...


You are totally clueless with your judgements if you think 1 in 25k catching fire is ok. Your personal judgements are even worse.


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## dryk1t (7 mo ago)

davec113 said:


> You are totally clueless with your judgements if you think 1 in 25k catching fire is ok. Your personal judgements are even worse.


Eh, you think I am clueless, I think you are detached from reality.

I don't put emotion before reality. That is your problem.

Go wrap yourself up in fire resistant bubble wrap and keep pretending that this is actually an issue you face.

Here in Australia you are your safest self at 10 years of age. It was more dangerous before then and it only gets way more dangerous from then on.

A 10 year old has a 1 in 10,000 chance of dying.
An 18 year old has a 1 in 3000 chance of dying.
A 36 year old has a 1 in 1000 chance of dying.
A 65 year old has a 1 in 100 chance of dying.

That is just simply existing in this world of ours, year to year.

The next time you feel anxious about some problem that is limited to a nation that has no legitimate link to your own but you want to link those issues to your emotions, remind yourself, there are a billion things way more dangerous waiting to kill you that you don't seem to care about.

Have a great day


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## alpha_plinker (3 mo ago)

dryk1t said:


> The fear mongering is hilarious. It also shows how gullible people are into being afraid.
> 
> Being worried about e-bikes catching on fire is the equivalent of being a flat-earther.
> 
> I don't even own or want to own e-bikes, but the anti e-bike sentiment on MTBR is hilarious.


Dont waste your time. You are trying to fight people who are happy to say anything and post anything regardless of how low value it is to push their view on others with no link to anything of value but opinion.

People dont care about facts they care about click baity type comments and highly questionable "opinion articles".

You will see just as davec113 proved, that they will grab the smallest point (even your own self declared fakely huge number) anmd try use it againt you.

e-bike forum and general discussion forum are limited to wasting time avoiding work on the toilet or when you are just trying to create harm in the community.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

dryk1t said:


> Eh, you think I am clueless, I think you are detached from reality.
> 
> I don't put emotion before reality. That is your problem.
> 
> ...


Not for nothing, and not that I necessarily disagree with the point(s) you're trying to make, but you are nowhere near as good at understanding statistics as you obviously think you are.
You're even worse at trying to communicate them.

I've been chuckling at your posts in this thread for days. Keep the comedy coming!


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## dryk1t (7 mo ago)

slapheadmofo said:


> Not for nothing, and not that I necessarily disagree with the point(s) you're trying to make, but you are nowhere near as good at understanding statistics as you obviously think you are.
> You're even worse at trying to communicate them.
> 
> I've been chuckling at your posts in this thread for days. Keep the comedy coming!


Feel free to add anything of value, but you won't. Have you ever?

Please continue to watch, I have been waiting for my smoker to be ready this morning for a nice slow brisket session so in a few minutes this thread gets muted and likely forgotten about by lunch time.

I guess we are all here because we are bored. I mean, how else did I find this thread but for some forum recommendation on the first page of the forum 

Thankfully no one around me owns an e-bike, so the only fire around here is one started in my BBQ


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

alpha_plinker said:


> Dont waste your time. You are trying to fight people who are happy to say anything and post anything regardless of how low value it is to push their view on others with no link to anything of value but opinion.
> 
> People dont care about facts they care about click baity type comments and highly questionable "opinion articles".
> 
> ...


Wow. You guys have been massively traumatized by anti-ebikers to the point it's clouding your judgement, and your bias is absurd. 

Sorry, but all I'm saying is Li batteries have known issues with counterfeiting and it's not easy to source quality Li batteries unless you're a large customer, and then they often cost nearly 10x the cheap ones. This leads to cheap and/or small-scale ebike mfg'ers using these cheap batteries and also using cheap chargers, leading to fires. 

I'm fine with ebikes, I love my ebike, a Specialized Turbo Vado 4, and think they are part of the solution to urban transportation and short range commuting. I don't have an emtb yet but I'm sure I will get one eventually. I got a Spec partially because I trust them to sell me a bike that's less likely to burst into flames vs cheaper, smaller-scale alternatives.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

davec113 said:


> Wow. You guys have been massively traumatized by anti-ebikers to the point it's clouding your judgement, and your bias is absurd.
> 
> Sorry, but all I'm saying is Li batteries have known issues with counterfeiting and it's not easy to source quality Li batteries unless you're a large customer, and then they often cost nearly 10x the cheap ones. This leads to cheap and/or small-scale ebike mfg'ers using these cheap batteries and also using cheap chargers, leading to fires.
> 
> I'm fine with ebikes, I love my ebike, a Specialized Turbo Vado 4, and think they are part of the solution to urban transportation and short range commuting. I don't have an emtb yet but I'm sure I will get one eventually. I got a Spec partially because I trust them to sell me a bike that's less likely to burst into flames vs cheaper, smaller-scale alternatives.


Finally someone is making some sense


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## nilswalk (Nov 26, 2014)

dryk1t said:


> Here in Australia you are your safest self at 10 years of age. It was more dangerous before then and it only gets way more dangerous from then on.
> 
> A 10 year old has a 1 in 10,000 chance of dying.
> An 18 year old has a 1 in 3000 chance of dying.
> ...


I'm pretty certain that they all have a 100% chance of dying


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

dryk1t said:


> Feel free to add anything of value, but you won't. Have you ever?


Been here a couple months and knows everything. 
Except how numbers work. LOL


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Just as an FYI for anyone who wants really wants to protect themselves against a .004% chance of their ebike battery exploding or catching fire, you can buy bags like this for $25.00.









Amazon.com: FLASLD Lipo Battery Safe Bag Explosionproof - Large Capacity Fireproof Bag for Ebike Battery Charging and Storage (19.3 x 4.3 x 7in) : Toys & Games


Amazon.com: FLASLD Lipo Battery Safe Bag Explosionproof - Large Capacity Fireproof Bag for Ebike Battery Charging and Storage (19.3 x 4.3 x 7in) : Toys & Games



www.amazon.com





They also make them for cell phones, which I hear also catch fire, and I'm sure everyone here has a cell phone, so be sure to get one "before it's too late".  


.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

_CJ said:


> Just as an FYI for anyone who wants really wants to protect themselves against a .004% chance of their ebike battery exploding or catching fire, you can buy bags like this for $25.00.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These are pretty standard for RC stuff.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

_CJ said:


> Just as an FYI for anyone who wants really wants to protect themselves against a .004% chance of their ebike battery exploding or catching fire, you can buy bags like this for $25.00.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The fact they make these bags and lots of people buy them is telling. 

And yes, 1 in 25k batteries bursting into flames is absolutely not in the realm of acceptable. Here's a quick Google search on cell phone battery stats:

_How often do cell phone batteries catch fire?

It doesn't happen often -- statistically speaking, only *1 in 10 million* lithium-ion battery cells are likely to go bad. _

So.. 1 in 10M vs 1 in 25k. But sure, keep on responding, doling out your idiotic laughing emojis, and confirm for us that you're completely clueless.


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## ejhc11 (2 mo ago)

New guy here but not new to e-bikes. I owned two Haibikes with the Yamaha motors, 2017 & 2018, both have been trouble free. No fires or dangers. The 2017 I gave to my brother just recently got a replacement battery from Haibike (Yamaha). But otherwise my 2018 battery is still holding it's charge and never gets hot during charges. It looks like the quality assurance of the Haibike is pretty good from my own experience. Happy camper here.


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## ValEs (6 mo ago)

_CJ said:


> Thanks for confirming your view on ebikes, and the people who ride them. You don't like them, or the "lazy overweight enduro-bros" who ride them. That's the reason you created this thread. To cast ebikes in a negative light.
> 
> I'm curious, do you also hate "enduro-bros" on analog bikes who "ride them - tearing up the trails and riding disrespectful towards slower riders and hikers", or is it just the motor that makes it offensive? Because I can guarantee there are a hell of a lot more analog bikers riding that way than ebikers. Jerks are jerks, it's not the bike that's the problem.
> 
> ...


Good grief Charlie Brown…


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

*E-BIKES BANNED FROM BUILDINGS AFTER SPARKING DEADLY FIRES*
New York City Council considers bills to regulate e-bikes, landlords amend leases










Buildings are banning e-bikes amid deadly battery fires


E-bikes' benefits are threatened by the growing toll of deaths and injuries from battery fires.




www.axios.com


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

J_Westy said:


> *E-BIKES BANNED FROM BUILDINGS AFTER SPARKING DEADLY FIRES*
> New York City Council considers bills to regulate e-bikes, landlords amend leases
> 
> 
> ...


What the hell, they were banned from MTBR cause they keep lighting up the forum.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

J_Westy said:


> *E-BIKES BANNED FROM BUILDINGS AFTER SPARKING DEADLY FIRES*
> New York City Council considers bills to regulate e-bikes, landlords amend leases
> 
> 
> ...


Ok CJ, you have 1 hour to come up with some kind of narrative about this not being true, or fake news, or turn it into something completely different than the obvious


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Did I just hear a salvo take flight?


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Hey! Cage match between Kayak and CJ!

I wouldn't pay to see that.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

mlx john said:


> Hey! Cage match between Kayak and CJ!


Bring it






.


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