# How do you keep horse riders off the trail?



## TimT (Jan 1, 2004)

The Spillway MTB trail (New Orleans LA) has been invaded by horses. Totally torn up. Years of work ruined.  They have their own area to ride but for some reason they use our trail. So whats the best way to keep them out. I have a couple of physical barriers in mind but ideas are welcome.

Tim


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*hanging sign*

I'm told horses don't like to go under stuff. An idea to consider,at the trail heads, hang a trail sign about 6 feet high. router in whatever message. A nice sign looks informative and may not be recognized as a horse barrier. Have a few in a row. (IE a sign hung from light chain).

another idea is a horse gate. Build two "interlocking "C" shaped fences that bikes can fit through, but horses can not.

last idea, do what steps are necessary to ensure horses are formally banned.
good luck, keep us posted.


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## JmZ (Jan 10, 2004)

I've seen:

Logs used as erosion control. Corduroy style, that are easily walked or biked.

Narrow choke points. Large rocks or trees. Also small bridges over water or trail that won't support that amount of weight. Also hike a bikes, or having to lift the bike over a barrier.

Low signs or vegetation.

Noise. Trailheads close to the parking lot. 

Most of these were not designed to keep horses out, normally they were to fix another trail issue, but these had the result of reducing incursions. Some were also effective against powered cycles too.

JmZ


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## Fattirewilly (Dec 10, 2001)

TimT said:


> The Spillway MTB trail (New Orleans LA) has been invaded by horses. Totally torn up. Years of work ruined.  They have their own area to ride but for some reason they use our trail. So whats the best way to keep them out. I have a couple of physical barriers in mind but ideas are welcome.
> 
> Tim


1) cattle guard w/ fence on each side http://www.livestockshed.com/cattle...attle+guards&gclid=CPK389DG_qUCFQty5Qod7X1aAg

2) a residential sized "door frame" w/ fence on each side. This could be built from logs on-site. To narrow/short to fit through while "mounted".

3) a nice sign with "please...."


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## thumpduster (Nov 19, 2008)

Who is the land manager for the spillway mtb trail?
Are horses officially allowed/banned from that trail?


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## indytrekracer (Feb 13, 2004)

*controling horses*

My wife rides horses, and I have watched the things horses like and don't like. I put this to use on a trail I built in a park where previously every trail was open to horses. One thing horses don't like are wooden bridges. It is even more difficult to get a horse to cross a wooded bridge if they can't approach it straight on. Luckily we needed to build a number of bridges on this trail. By banking the approaches, the bridges flow well by bike, but are very awkward for a horse.










Horse riders, just like mountain bikers, are curious about a new trail. We have had a few check out our trail by horse, but they haven't come back. Not because of signs, or fear of the park rangers. They don't come back because navigating the bridges by horse is not fun.

There are other things you can do to make the trail not flow for horses, but most of these tactics only work if you are benching into side slop. If you are in a flatter area, they can just ride around the features.

Here is a photo from a news article the next spring, showing the trail after the spoils and back slop had just one spring to revegetate.


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## Zoke2 (Nov 16, 2007)

Tim I saw the debris pile today and I'm glad that is only temporary because there is probably a dozen EPA violations going on there but I think they will get the hint.


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## dixie whiskey (Jul 25, 2010)

TimT said:


> The Spillway MTB trail (New Orleans LA) has been invaded by horses. Totally torn up. Years of work ruined.


Funny you guys make all these reports without actually witnessing the trail for yourself. A couple of hoof prints, 3/4 workday by 2 savvy people and the trail is in great shape.



TimT said:


> might I suggest posting signs of this guy ... then again it might frighten the horses.


...Or Jon you can just stand guard and smile with your cig yellow stained teeth chugging Coors Light. It scares most of us at least...


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## TimT (Jan 1, 2004)

Stu
I was out there with Eric and it was torn up. I'm the one who piled the tires up at Dan's trail to block that access point. I also found out how they are getting in through the pipeline.

Yes the horses have their own area to ride they just don't.
Yes the land manager knows. But the sign the ACOE posted is no were near were the horses go in at.

Tim


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## dixie whiskey (Jul 25, 2010)

Tim – the recent horse damage was last Saturday afternoon between noon and 5PM; the workday where you and Eric piled up the tires was the Sunday prior (where another horse event took place previously). It doesn’t matter much really. 

Granted there is an obvious issue with horse trespassing, Corps regulation states they are prohibited from access. How you convince the U.S. Government from enforcing their own code is another subject. I’m all for aiding in preventive measures but until the USACE comes aboard the odds are aligned against us.

I would advise all parties who speak of negative aspects of damage to do such diligently; I think it’s a bit cumbersome to describe damage as “years of work ruined” when I personally walked (and repaired) the entire trail and overall I don’t think it was quite as bad as exaggerated by rumor. Obviously advertising the trail as “ruined” will deter riders from entry thus, my sarcasm to Jon in the other thread (I didn’t know about this one at the time).


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## TunicaTrails (Jun 29, 2009)

Hate to get involved but this post was NSFW, I am laughing and crying while my boss wonders what's going on.



dixie whiskey said:


> ...Or Jon you can just stand guard and smile with your cig yellow stained teeth chugging Coors Light. It scares most of us at least...


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## ironmule (Aug 13, 2010)

scent it with wolf urine


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## bweide (Dec 27, 2004)

*Step One - Catch A Wolf*

That's the easy part of the two-step process to obtain wolf urine.


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## ironmule (Aug 13, 2010)

milkbones and wear a red hoodie duh. Hunting stores have animal scents, even scents not to attract prey


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2011)

hide in the bushes dressed like Richard Simmons and jump out yelling I'm a pony! don't you feel like a pony!? repeat as many times a necessary.


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## dk11 (Apr 30, 2010)

JmZ said:


> I've seen:
> 
> Logs used as erosion control. Corduroy style, that are easily walked or biked.


I assume you mean that the logs are laid out running perpendicular to the trail?
Do you leave gaps between the logs or is it better to keep them close together?,and how long would you need to run the logs for?

Reason I ask is,I started to clear a new section today to create a loop with an existing trail,only to find the existing trail looks like it has been rotavated! (it was also the best section of trail in my local woods untill people started riding horses on it )

If anybody has any more pics of horse proofing could you post them up:thumbsup:


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I've always loved the name of this trail.










I talked to horse people who get all bent out of shape about this trail. I hear comments like "I'll ride on it if I want and no one is going to stop me".

It's on a tiny little island and it would cost about $200 to get a horse there. The people that live on the island and have horses know why it's called "No Horses". You risk serious injury or death of your horse if you try to ride on it.


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## Jrkimbrough (Sep 27, 2008)

the ACOE put these up on one section of our trail where a horse trail passed nearby and we had a few "wandering" equestrians. since then we've seen zero signs of horses on the trail.


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## FrostyStruthers (Jul 10, 2010)

Be a guerrilla warrior and kill them with uncomfortable kindness.

Camp the trail in shifts. When the horses arrive, ride behind them. Don't pass them no matter what. Don't ride closely. Just ride behind them within earshot. Do it all day if necessary. If they stop to let you by, stop as well. Chat it up being very friendly. When they beg you to go, say no thank you and just stare at them blankly... smiling... 

Do you feel the discomfort? I do... Creep show.

 

I am lucky. We don't see very many horses on our trails. See prints now and again, but not many moving horses. We just stop and say hello. Not much of a problem.


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## Francis Buxton (Apr 2, 2004)

I just nail empty bottles of Elmer's glue along the trail...


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## sambs827 (Dec 8, 2008)

+1 on the cattle stop. A bike can roll over it, a person can walk over it, a dog (if they're allowed) can jump or be carried if necessary.


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## ironmule (Aug 13, 2010)

Francis Buxton said:


> I just nail empty bottles of Elmer's glue along the trail...


this:thumbsup:


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## dk11 (Apr 30, 2010)

FrostyStruthers said:


> Be a guerrilla warrior and kill them with uncomfortable kindness.
> 
> Camp the trail in shifts. When the horses arrive, ride behind them. Don't pass them no matter what. Don't ride closely. Just ride behind them within earshot. Do it all day if necessary. If they stop to let you by, stop as well. Chat it up being very friendly. When they beg you to go, say no thank you and just stare at them blankly... smiling...
> 
> Do you feel the discomfort? I do... Creep show.


:lol: :lol: :lol: I reckon that would do the trick!!


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## dk11 (Apr 30, 2010)

sambs827 said:


> +1 on the cattle stop. A bike can roll over it, a person can walk over it, a dog (if they're allowed) can jump or be carried if necessary.


It wont be anything too elaborate,I'm only building trails in my spare time,and its in a rural area thats not used much by mtbr's,so mostly building the trails by myself.
I'm going to see if the corduroy method at some narrow points on the trail will work


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## JmZ (Jan 10, 2004)

dk11 said:


> I assume you mean that the logs are laid out running perpendicular to the trail?
> Do you leave gaps between the logs or is it better to keep them close together?,and how long would you need to run the logs for?
> 
> Reason I ask is,I started to clear a new section today to create a loop with an existing trail,only to find the existing trail looks like it has been rotavated! (it was also the best section of trail in my local woods untill people started riding horses on it )
> ...


Something like this, maybe even the occasional log pile. Slightly larger logs work better than just 'sticks'.

JmZ


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## dk11 (Apr 30, 2010)

double post


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## dk11 (Apr 30, 2010)

JmZ said:


> Something like this, maybe even the occasional log pile. Slightly larger logs work better than just 'sticks'.
> 
> JmZ


Nice one JmZ:thumbsup: ,there are plenty of fallen trees near the trail that I could use


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

Francis Buxton said:


> I just nail empty bottles of Elmer's glue along the trail...


Ha! Or just put this sign on the trail:

Glue Factory
---------------->


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## Fullrange Drew (May 13, 2004)

Install a few armored section of very tame rock garden on the trail. Horses hate rough rocky terrain under hoof. Doesn't need to be at all technically challenging for bikes, just needs a non flat and irregular surface.

Or the obligatory warning sign:

*We will catch you, skin you and boil it down to make glue...

...then we'll shoot your horses.*


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## dk11 (Apr 30, 2010)

JmZ said:


> Something like this, maybe even the occasional log pile. Slightly larger logs work better than just 'sticks'.
> 
> JmZ


What about using a split log structure with a slight gap between each one?

Reason I ask is that bikes would have better grip on split logs,anytime I have come across a log that is wet(which is most of the time )in my local trails they have a surface similar to ice!


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## Megashnauzer (Nov 2, 2005)

i've had a set of hoof prints on my trail several times, usually on each new section. i guess the locals are curious why there are orange flags all over the woods. i put up some "no horses" signs and added 'please' to the bottom. i figure i would start nicely and work my way up from there. i've got the forestry department backing me but they are so short staffed they could never enforce any violations. i'm thinking next put up some wildlife cameras and start posting their pictures at the trail head and with the forestry department. don't they make dog food with hose meat?


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

s0ckeyeus said:


> ...
> Glue Factory
> ---------------->


That would be a great name for a nice tech trail in horsey country -> Glue Factory

michael


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## SunDog (Feb 21, 2004)

If they legaly do not belong, contact the local equestrian club, if they have one, and get them to police themselves. 

Love the Glue Factory trail name!


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

We have 2 local trails. "No Horses" and "Dead Horses". Both were named to protect horses and owners but they will try them anyways. Horses can't hurt these trails. A couple of horses have been injured because of stubborn riders.


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## dk11 (Apr 30, 2010)

How do you keep horse riders off the trail?

.............with a trip wire and some banger fireworks it seem's!!.........

So I'm back from a spin on a trail I had recently built,and one section had a very professional looking horse jump built on it,making it impossible to pass without getting off the bike,so naturally I pulled it down.

Shortly afterwards I met two horse riders and asked them if they had built the jump,and they had.
So politely I asked the guy who built it,if he wouldn't mind not building jumps on the new sections of trail while the ground was still soft,and if he could at least give it time to bed in(unfortunately I have no right to tell him not to ride horses on the trails),
to which he scoffed and and said "why shouldn't I?"

So I told him they were built for MTB's.........and his reply........"no they were not,who do you think put them there?I built them"....!!!!


So even when I told him I had built the trails he said "no you didn't,and why can't you just go around them? 
Knew I was on to a winner with this guy:madman: :madman: :madmax:

Rant over!

Well,I just have to accept that I have to share my local trails with horse riders...........and be comforted with the knowledge that it take a lot less time and effort to pull down a horse jump than it does to built one:thumbsup: 


(oh,and a tip for anybody else building trails,he also said "its fine for you,we cant make tight turns".....so keep that in mind when its possible to narrow a trail through some trees!)


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

What is the trail use designation by the agency who administers the area?


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## dk11 (Apr 30, 2010)

Its actually in a commercial forestry,and is owned by a semi-state company.

By rights MTBs are not allowed on their lands as a policy,but I have been given permission for access and trail building by the area manager,as long as I stay away from any public recreation areas and walking trails,and although horses are not officially allowed either by the company policy,he again turns a blind eye to this as long as they are not in the recreation areas.
The trails are not official or mapped in any way,and have just built up over the years by walkers and MX riders,but are very suitable for MTBs.
So thats why I cant say or do anything official about horse riders on the trails.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

Then your next option is to go to an organized equestrian group, if there is one, and appeal to them to stay off the trails, or at least stay off when they are susceptible to damage while wet. It is worth a try, but you have to be very courteous and explain the damages and that you are the one doing it when they need repair. If the group does by in, then that will help keep rouge equestrians in check. 

Your idea of trip wire and banger fireworks opens you and the land manager owners to a lawsuit. MTBs will get kicked off at the least, and the horses will get it all.


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## dk11 (Apr 30, 2010)

slocaus said:


> . Your idea of trip wire and banger fireworks opens you and the land manager owners to a lawsuit. MTBs will get kicked off at the least, and the horses will get it all.


Dont worry,only joking about that



> Then your next option is to go to an organized equestrian group


Well I think this guy owns a horse training centre adjacent to the trails and has probably been riding there most of his life.....and if he hasn't learned by now.....


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

I knew you were kidding.

You can try the equestrian group,. or you can give up.


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## Cedar Branch Biker (Jul 28, 2010)

> don't they make dog food with horse meat?


Put up a sign: *ALPO FACTORY STRAIGHT AHEAD*


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## wildskycomet (Sep 15, 2005)

*both camps*

I'm a trail builder on many levels for different users. I'm part of a con comm and also help manage a large town owned area where Ihave to try to balance the concerns the enviro's, hikers, mtnbkrs (me) and horse people (me) can go. It's all about suitability there are some areas that are appropriate for sharing & tolerance and many that are not. I would suggest some kind of barriers that suggest inappropriate use, especially by the more conscientious of horse users/riders (you think a bicycle costs a lot to fix?!). 
Some sort of barrierboth at points of entry and along the trail should act as a deterent enough. Once they by pass the first, along comes another. Just won't be fun or suitable w/out dnagering the horse &/or rider. Wheb "we" consider multiple use criteria, one consideration that always comes into play, bridges. Any kind of narrower "ladder type" (spaces" are a not go for the 4 legged critteres, both on and above the ground. Boardwalks, cordouroy ( on and above the ground) provide clallenge for bikers (pretty greasy someties) but no good for horse legs. Uneven rock sections where its bouldery and cobbly enough for a relatively lengthy section should give the horse rider pause when they consider horse legs & shoes. Clearing height is an issue. The lower the branches the harder it is for the horse rider to stay on & enjoy. Tight turns and closer undulations make it unenjoyable for horse & rider. 
Perhaps an "unsafe for horses" sign might even contribute to discussions w/equestrian groups?.


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## Wildfire (Feb 4, 2004)

*Four shovels and a large intestine*

You could always try the "Godfather approach" and hang a horse head on a pole at the trail head. (Just kiddin').

Designing in features that could injure an innocent horse are not such a good idea. The riders are the real ones to blame, not the horses who are just going where they are guided.

We (our trail club) have had pretty good luck putting a polite explanatory sign at the trail entrance explaining that the trail was designed and built by and for bikers and hikers and that the trail surface has soils too soft to support horse use. We also included numerous "filters" in the first few hundred yards of trail in the form of narrow gaps between trees and low-hanging branches and leaners over the trail to reinforce that point. As mentioned earlier, tight turns help too. If you can keep horses off for the first couple seasons, the bikes often will compact the tread enough that horse hooves do much less damage and the trail can then sustain the occasional horse incursion. Keeping trail grades down will help keep hoof damages down too, anything over 8 - 10% and those steel-clad hooves really start digging in and displacing tread soils.

Being a polite spokesperson to riders you happen upon that are poaching the trail will help too. Most (not all) riders are actually pretty friendly and reasonable so just explaining the reasons that horses are discouraged from that particular trail will help and he/she will probably then spread the word to their horsey friends. Being rude will not help so much.

I was pleasantly surprised last year when two non-biking equestrians showed up and helped us on a trail maintenance day. And this on a "No horses" trail!


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

Large pits with punji sticks and a narrow ladder.
Narrow twisty bench with - punji sticks on the outside slope.
Rock garden with narrow bike line - punji sticks in between the large rocks beside bike line.
Lots of noise-makers - wind buzzers, wind chimes, etc - guarded by punji sticks of course

You get the idea....

Now go forth and build your defenses....:thumbsup:

michael


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## J. Johnson (Feb 20, 2011)

*Keeping X off of Y trail, and vice-versa.*

You can add signage (polite), horse gates (minimal "enforcement"), trail modifications (e.g., low hanging trees), active enforcement, etc. But at a basic level horses are kept off of bike trails the same way bikes are kept off of horse trails: reaching out to the other community, sharing concerns, and developing ties of mutual respect. Which doesn't prevent the occasional yahoo, but it generally works better if each community takes responsibility for its members.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

Here is a horse gate that we just saw at a local park while we were at a workshop for the CA Trails and Greenways Conference.

Make it narrow (3 feet max) and the cross bar tall (18 inches). Hikers step through and a bike can be lifted and carried over.


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## bigskyguy (Apr 6, 2008)

Trip wire connected to baby rattle. Horses don't like snakes. Let the saddle bronc portion of the trail ride begin. Hell, mabey name the trail "saddle bronc" then you can tell them they were warned. Our local trails near my house (forest service) get pummeled by a local guide service that charges for day dude rides. They ride no matter what, snow, rain, mud, doesn't matter they wont skip a chance to make a buck off a city slicker. The worst of it is that the jackhole guides they hire (20 year old rodeo wannabes) act like the trails are for the private use of the guides and dudes. Some of the ruts are over 24" deep, and the fix....just start a new trail/rut. I no longer smile and wave, it's more of a shrug and sigh with a look at the guide like WTF, and with a snap of my shifter cable against my frame I scatter the horses (kidding). Myself and others have left numerous messeges with the district mngr. but to no avail. If any other user group did that amount of damage there would be a public outcry. Good luck with your horse proofing.


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