# Problems with Angleset anyone?



## IntenseMack10 (May 16, 2006)

Im runnin the Angleset on my V10, and having a weird issue: I was getting a horrendous knocking from the front end. Spent a ton of time installing and reinstalling and even swapping forks with friends (who also run the angleset) and the issue persisted.

I finally figured if I torqued the headset preload down it got rid of the knocking, but to get it to where it doesnt knock it has considerable bind in the headset. I can get a sweet spot to where its ridable and doest knock (although it needs to be quite a bit tighter to prevent the knock while riding vs preventing it in the garage).

I know many will say, whatever, its ridable just deal with it, but it still bugs me. Anyone having similliar issues? 

I did read the directions and watch the install video on Cane Creeks site to make sure I was doing it correctly and not missing any pieces.


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

[email protected] might be helpful


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## rider151 (Apr 30, 2007)

A couple guys over on ridemonkey had this issue as well. Not sure if they have a fix for it or not but theres a whole thread over there on it.......


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

I've heard this now from several. Hopefully Uncle Cliffy and his crew will chime in if they ever found a fix.

Have FUN!

G


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

I remember when angled headsets came out before CC, cups would turn in the HT.


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## IntenseMack10 (May 16, 2006)

rider151 said:


> A couple guys over on ridemonkey had this issue as well. Not sure if they have a fix for it or not but theres a whole thread over there on it.......


I will call CC on Tues. Its at least nice to know Im not the only one. In my cup half empty kind of way I was startng to wonder if it was more than the headset, like something about my fork was causing the issue.....crazy I know.


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## rider151 (Apr 30, 2007)

IntenseMack10 said:


> I will call CC on Tues. Its at least nice to know Im not the only one. In my cup half empty kind of way I was startng to wonder if it was more than the headset, like something about my fork was causing the issue.....crazy I know.


Appears to be becoming a pretty well known problem so it seems. I would be pretty confident that the CC is your source of the creak (barring any install errors). When/if you get an answer from them please post it up here so we know their take on things! Good luck.


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## behubert (Apr 13, 2006)

+2 for the horrible knock. Both the shop owner and myself cant seem to get this to go away.


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## Joss DeWaele (Nov 9, 2004)

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240549


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

I got the dreaded Angleset pop, help. Installed carefully, loaded with White Lightning Crystal grease. Bike is a Driver 8 using 1* cups w/ 2010 Boxxer WC.


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## k1creeker (Jul 30, 2005)

The issue is with the bearing tolerance within the gimbal. The bearing moves around in the gimbal just enough to make it click. They really should have been designed to be pressed in. Perhaps in version 2.0.

You might be able to pack the gimbal with marine grease and drop the bearing in that. Might help quite it down for a while.


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## IntenseMack10 (May 16, 2006)

NoahColorado said:


> I got the dreaded Angleset pop, help. Installed carefully, loaded with White Lightning Crystal grease. Bike is a Driver 8 using 1* cups w/ 2010 Boxxer WC.


Talking to others who have the same problem, there really isnt any help. A few people I know the noise just disappeared. Im not waiting around for that luck. I gave up and ordered a King. I might keep the Angleset around in case they release a fix, and its just 1 part or something, but for now I will be noise free at .5 deg steeper HA.


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## Twisted1 (Aug 24, 2010)

Is there a crack in the head tube? It happened to my buddies bike. We kept hearing knocking so finally just brought it to lbs an they found hairline crack.


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## freeriderB (Jan 9, 2004)

*knock*



IntenseMack10 said:


> Im runnin the Angleset on my V10, and having a weird issue: I was getting a horrendous knocking from the front end. Spent a ton of time installing and reinstalling and even swapping forks with friends (who also run the angleset) and the issue persisted.
> 
> I finally figured if I torqued the headset preload down it got rid of the knocking, but to get it to where it doesnt knock it has considerable bind in the headset. I can get a sweet spot to where its ridable and doest knock (although it needs to be quite a bit tighter to prevent the knock while riding vs preventing it in the garage).
> 
> ...


***************************
i'm not familiar with the workings of the angleset...does it come with a traditional star nut?
If so, is it possible that the star nut is not set deep enough?
I had an issue where I got a loud "clunk" in the front end and I noticed the star nut was actually pulled UP in the steer tube near the top. I think it was clunking the top cap some how.
Banged it in further and installed a new sharp one that stayed in place...no more noise.

Again...I wasn't using an angle set...but I would expect many riders would keep the old starnut that's already in the fork...maybe the torque is greater with the angle set??

Talkin' out my butt.....


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

Put a little fibre grip ON THE TOP CUP ONLY. Because you remove the top cup more often it seems that Cane Creek make the tolerance a bit looser to aid in removing the cup. I have found that on my CV-10 that I have to check the top cap tension on a more regular basis as well. Also make sure that the area (gold ano cones) between the bearing interfaces is kept clean and well greased. ALL THESE THINGS factor into this little problem.

Michael Town
Team Manager
Santa Cruz Alliance


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## IntenseMack10 (May 16, 2006)

k1creeker said:


> The issue is with the bearing tolerance within the gimbal. The bearing moves around in the gimbal just enough to make it click. They really should have been designed to be pressed in. Perhaps in version 2.0
> 
> 
> > I suspected that this is where the problem was, but was based only on my intuition.
> ...


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## doodooboi (Dec 29, 2006)

Has anyone offically got word from Cane Cree to see what could remedy this?


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## k1creeker (Jul 30, 2005)

doodooboi said:


> Has anyone offically got word from Cane Cree to see what could remedy this?


The "official" fix seems to be cranking down on the preload. A Headlock type device might work better.

The reports of clicking and popping come mostly from the DH crowd where way more abuse is put on the headset. I wonder if CC R&D was done on AM bikes where the noises would be minimized.

It is a neat and clever design, I'm sure they'll get it right on the next pass.


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## Err (Mar 21, 2005)

I picked up the pop on my Tazer-vp after a long weekend of slamming into desert rocks. After reading all the info and thoughts, I gave anti-sieze in combination with over-torque a shot and it seems to be working. I have 4 or 5 days of riding since with no noise, however I do have very slight binding due to the headset being cranked down. The bearings probably won't last long like this but at least it's quiet now.

Here's what I did -
Disassemble
Clean thoroughly, spotless, no grit, nada
Coated all metal-to metal surfaces (outside and inside of gimble) with Permatex anti-sieze
Carefully aligned at install
Torqued the headset until I felt the star-nut begin to slip (just before this point there was some noticeable settling of the gimbals)
Backed off just a hair but left it where the headset is slightly (just a little) binding, not noticeable when riding but you can feel it in the garage.
Ride the crap out of it, quiet.

Hope this helps.


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## IntenseMack10 (May 16, 2006)

Err said:


> I picked up the pop on my Tazer-vp after a long weekend of slamming into desert rocks. After reading all the info and thoughts, I gave anti-sieze in combination with over-torque a shot and it seems to be working. I have 4 or 5 days of riding since with no noise, however I do have very slight binding due to the headset being cranked down. The bearings probably won't last long like this but at least it's quiet now.
> 
> Here's what I did -
> Disassemble
> ...


Interesting that this has worked for you. I have my headset tight enough that I do feel it a little on the trail (yet my star nut is not slipping at all, are you using a double starnut?), and as I said a bit earlier I still get the clunk over bigger trail hits. My ultimate fix: new headset. I dont feel like dealing with band-aid solutions. Hopefully CC will release reworked gimbals and bearings and I can drop those in the headset and start to use it again.


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## Err (Mar 21, 2005)

IntenseMack10 said:


> Interesting that this has worked for you. I have my headset tight enough that I do feel it a little on the trail (yet my star nut is not slipping at all, are you using a double starnut?), and as I said a bit earlier I still get the clunk over bigger trail hits. My ultimate fix: new headset. I dont feel like dealing with band-aid solutions. Hopefully CC will release reworked gimbals and bearings and I can drop those in the headset and start to use it again.


Double Star nut, had plastic steerer tube spacers in there and it started to crush them (actually did split one), had to remove to continue. I'm talking way more torque than I would ever consider using in a normal circumstance.

Also, did you use anti-seize? I think this is a key factor.

In the end, I completely agree with you that this all just bandaid work and that the headsets are not working as advertised. FWIW, I have plenty of time on K9 cups with zero issues and I know that Works cups are also reliable, so that might be your best bet if you want your HTA back.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Whoa...good thing I did NOT order one! Was about to do so when I read the naff problem on PBike as well as here. Yah, pass on that till all the kinks are ironed out for the next iteration.

Until that time, I would buy another HSet and be done with it.


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## phillidw (Mar 20, 2006)

I just noticed this thread yesterday and read all 16 pages on Ridemonkey today........LAME. I'm in the process of building up a rig for DH and purchased the Angleset for the build. 

I went to my LBS where I talked with the service manager "Ford" and he talked me out of using the Angle$hit for my build. 

Unfortunate, because the idea is great. We consumers have to be patient for new products to run the natural course of "Real-Life" testing. 

There are other solutions out there. I'm sure CC will fix in due time. I just feel for all of the hard working peeps that tossed one.five C-Notes on there rigs to have it freak the holy living $hit out of them. 

I'm sure people have thought there was something more serious going on.

For me, I'm lucky that people post up and I can still RGA mine for credit. Best of luck to others.


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

dhtahoe said:


> Put a little fibre grip ON THE TOP CUP ONLY. Because you remove the top cup more often it seems that Cane Creek make the tolerance a bit looser to aid in removing the cup. I have found that on my CV-10 that I have to check the top cap tension on a more regular basis as well. Also make sure that the area (gold ano cones) between the bearing interfaces is kept clean and well greased. ALL THESE THINGS factor into this little problem.
> 
> Michael Town
> Team Manager
> Santa Cruz Alliance


What's funny is that I can point out several issues and how to fix them and people go on to say the same exact thing, but still try to limit it to one issue. Top cup/grease gimble/preload! All of them!!!


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## Dwdrums00 (Jul 8, 2006)

Mine has worked flawlessly since November! I have also spoken to other riders on the trail that haven't had any issues. I think more people should learn how to properly install a headset.


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## dropadrop (Sep 20, 2005)

Dwdrums00 said:


> Mine has worked flawlessly since November! I have also spoken to other riders on the trail that haven't had any issues. I think more people should learn how to properly install a headset.


Yeah, because if it works for you every one elses problems must be due to user error!


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## juanbeegas (Oct 1, 2007)

I had the knocking a while back, but was told to pop on the thin metal spacers above the compression ring. That solved it for me. I had 2 of them placed in.


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

dropadrop said:


> Yeah, because if it works for you every one elses problems must be due to user error!


And some people are just crappy mechanics and can't admit it. When I see quotes like I'm not using any anti seize as a bad-aid repair. No you can not put two aluminum pieces together without some sort of lube. This is simple mechanics folks. THE ONLY anglesets I have had an issue with are people that didn't install them right. I have a ten rider team with all nine DH bikes having anglesets and only one has had issues. Someone forgot to prelube anything before the install. So nine bikes with no issues. I guess it's better to be lucky than good right


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

I did two things that at least seriously cut down on the popping

1) Wrapped the outside of the bearings in one layer of plumbers tape
2) Added one thin micro spacer between the compression ring and cover (I would have added more if I could find them)

It will knock from time to time, but I didn't notice it while riding.


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## IntenseMack10 (May 16, 2006)

dhtahoe said:


> And some people are just crappy mechanics and can't admit it. When I see quotes like I'm not using any anti seize as a bad-aid repair. No you can not put two aluminum pieces together without some sort of lube. This is simple mechanics folks. THE ONLY anglesets I have had an issue with are people that didn't install them right. I have a ten rider team with all nine DH bikes having anglesets and only one has had issues. Someone forgot to prelube anything before the install. So nine bikes with no issues. I guess it's better to be lucky than good right


I'm actually very competent at working on my stuff. Just because I didn't use anti-seize doesn't mean I didn't use grease. I used liberal amounts of grease. As I stated above, I followed CC's directions to a tee (many times), and checked out Pinkbike's tech tuesday installment on the Angleset as extra insurance I was getting it right. So, yes, any extra "tricks" beyond the manufactures explicit directions are band-aids to try and get a faulty design to work ok.

But thanks for your helpful comments, if only I had your bike mechanic genius available to me all the time, my life would be so much easier!


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

dhtahoe said:


> And some people are just crappy mechanics and can't admit it. When I see quotes like I'm not using any anti seize as a bad-aid repair. No you can not put two aluminum pieces together without some sort of lube. This is simple mechanics folks. THE ONLY anglesets I have had an issue with are people that didn't install them right. I have a ten rider team with all nine DH bikes having anglesets and only one has had issues. Someone forgot to prelube anything before the install. So nine bikes with no issues. I guess it's better to be lucky than good right


I can vouch for IntenseMack....this guy knows his stuff and torques everything to specs...some may call him anal on this but things are precise. I would trust him working on my bike ( I don't trust anyone because if something isn't right then I am hurt-so I want to make sure)..so he is no way a crappy mechanic


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## ride the biscuit (Jun 4, 2009)

First, sorry for resurrecting a thread about an issue that no doubt has been a great source of frustration, but I'm hoping you guys can help answer an important question i have

my main question is: can i damage anything other than the headset itself by continuing to ride with the noise. if so, what? any documented instances of headtube damage from this? 

my last attempt to fix it involved the steps in NoahColorado's post combined with the use of thick marine grease and anti-seize, and I still get the noise (more a creaking than a loud pop for me). that seemed like a great idea, but I still couldnt get it noise free. although may be a little better on the trail...it comes out worse for me in garage when i ram front wheel into a wall than the avg trail hit

if the headset breaks ill just get something else, but i dont feel like spending more until i need to. i figure im damned if i do and damned if i dont so may as well just ride the effing thing (after all, i love what it did to my geo). i would try and sell it and get the works non-adjustable, but it seems others have done their homework before buying

the terrible irony in my case is that I usually contemplate even the simplest MTB related purchase until im blue in the face, but for the angleset I plunked down my doll-hairs without a second thought... mainly due to CC's perceived reputation, and the gimbals, those sexy pieces of shiny metal only the select few know how to use properly...i was drawn in like a fish


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## clarkalewis (Mar 2, 2004)

same problem is known with 100 and 110 headsets, and i've had it in both of those myself.
tried all above described "fixes", didn't go away until i switched headsets. good luck so far with their new "40" headset, for what its worth.


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## IntenseMack10 (May 16, 2006)

ride the biscuit said:


> First, sorry for resurrecting a thread about an issue that no doubt has been a great source of frustration, but I'm hoping you guys can help answer an important question i have
> 
> my main question is: can i damage anything other than the headset itself by continuing to ride with the noise. if so, what? any documented instances of headtube damage from this?
> 
> ...


As far as I understand the problem, it wont cause any damage to your frame or fork. The issue is all between the components of the headset itsself.

I got a Chris King headset and havent looked back. New headset completely got rid of any noise and clunking I was having, so that proves beyond a doubt the source of the noise. Also, I really havent noticed my bike feeling any different with the standard geo, but maybe thats more me. Either way, Im happy to have the issue behind me and enjoy the ride.

Sorry I dont have better info for you to actually fix the Angleset.


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## ride the biscuit (Jun 4, 2009)

clarkalewis said:


> same problem is known with 100 and 110 headsets, and i've had it in both of those myself.
> tried all above described "fixes", didn't go away until i switched headsets. good luck so far with their new "40" headset, for what its worth.


thats not what im asking. im resolved to not futz with it anymore to try to get the noise to go away.

waht im asking is what are the risks in running it until i feel like buying a different headset or until this one breaks because of "improper installation"


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## ride the biscuit (Jun 4, 2009)

IntenseMack10 said:


> As far as I understand the problem, it wont cause any damage to your frame or fork. The issue is all between the components of the headset itsself.
> 
> I got a Chris King headset and havent looked back. New headset completely got rid of any noise and clunking I was having, so that proves beyond a doubt the source of the noise. Also, I really havent noticed my bike feeling any different with the standard geo, but maybe thats more me. Either way, Im happy to have the issue behind me and enjoy the ride.
> 
> Sorry I dont have better info for you to actually fix the Angleset.


No, thats actually what i wanted to hear, thanks. its not worth my time to continue to try and fix it especially if all thats at risk is damaging the headset. in fact, i dont believe a satisfactory fix exists for the lay mechanic. also, i dont envision a catastrophic mid-ride failure.

i went from an external to the internal CC with -1.5 offset on a 6" AM bike, so for me the difference in bike feel is huge and for what i like to ride, awesome.


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## deadatbirth (Jul 23, 2007)

i tried getting mine to work for months before finally taking it off and putting a CC Series 40 on (which is a very cheap alternative.)
they are absolute junk IMO for DH bikes. i thought it was the gimbal interface being out of spec, but its the bearings moving around in the gimbals. i tried every combination of install (two from CC), thin grease, thick grease, anti-seize...nothing worked.

i do find it funny that a few people are blaming the installer or install process. the thread on RM pretty much sums it all up


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Did grease on the gimbals and overtightened. Grabbed a hand full of front brake and pressed back and forth along
g with down while holding brake. Retightened and did it again, noise is gone and headset is not over tight.

If it still popped a little I'd rock it anywase the benefit outweighs a little pop noise.


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## deadatbirth (Jul 23, 2007)

bullcrew said:


> Did grease on the gimbals and overtightened. Grabbed a hand full of front brake and pressed back and forth along
> g with down while holding brake. Retightened and did it again, noise is gone and headset is not over tight.


you over tightened it, then tightened some more, but its not over tight?


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## ride the biscuit (Jun 4, 2009)

deadatbirth said:


> you over tightened it, then tightened some more, but its not over tight?


maybe he means that when he did the rocking, the gimbles settled in more/better and therefore was no longer overtight. am i right? i may give this method a try.

the last thing i did in my post above did help to reduce on-trail noise. the amount of popping seems to depend on the direction of force for me. it pops the worst when you slam the front wheel into a wall, but not as much from trail impacts.

bullcrew, is yours even pop-free when running into a wall or just on trail?

either way, im still rocking mine...like you said the benefits outweigh the drawbacks, in my case anyway


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## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

ride the biscuit said:


> maybe he means that when he did the rocking, the gimbles settled in more/better and therefore was no longer overtight. am i right? i may give this method a try.
> 
> the last thing i did in my post above did help to reduce on-trail noise. the amount of popping seems to depend on the direction of force for me. it pops the worst when you slam the front wheel into a wall, but not as much from trail impacts.
> 
> ...


Its quiet period got rid of all the noise

Yeah its not over tightened but the holding the brake and rocking it back and forth then getting the slack out helped alot.


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## Mr. Blonde (May 18, 2008)

I'm starting to have this issue on my 150mm Pisgah bike and I haven't even had the angleset a month. I'm thinking a little loctite might help. I haven't measured yet to see what the tolerance difference is. I'll have to check it out. If its beyond a few hundreths I'll just make a shim. This issue shouldn't be THAT big a problem. I'll report back.


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## deadatbirth (Jul 23, 2007)

Mr. Blonde said:


> If its beyond a few hundreths I'll just make a shim. This issue shouldn't be THAT big a problem. I'll report back.


yeah, it only requires you to make a shim to make it work :skep:


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## MqtRider (Mar 22, 2004)

*My Angleset destroyed its bottom bearing!*

So I greased the ***** out of the gimbles and used the Chris King Headlock device to tighten the piss out of it on my 951...worked great, no problems all season until last weekend when I dropped a 6ft drop to tranny and POP...steering went to crap. Nursed it down Winter Park, got it to the shop, and pulled the fork out and all the guts of the lower bearing fell out. Absolutely destroyed bearing, I had to dig the outer shell of the bearing out of the gimble, all the other seals and steel balls of the "sealed" bearing fell out on the floor.

Sure, over torquing the bearing might not make it make noise, but the bearing life for a DH bike is short lived.

Solution: I just had to replace the lower bearing, put it all back together, works fine again, but for how long?


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## Hikers Only (Oct 18, 2010)

In addition to the noise I have blown through 2 bottom bearings on my angleset in 7 rides! So Far thanks to the CC I've missed 3 weeks of riding. Like other people I installed the first angleset word for word from their instruction video so when it failed on me i decided for the replacement I would take it to a shop and have it installed, after another 3 rides same thing happened the bearings on the bottom fell apart. I'm gonna call CC today!

Update: spoke to CC apparently any clicking, popping noise and bearing faliure comes from incorrect installation and not a problem with the angleset!! They said it comes from the gimbles not been pressure locked into place correctly causing the bearing to move around. Suggestion was to make sure that both gimbles come in contact with the cups at the same time then really tighten down the preload to pressure lock the gimbles. Then If the steering is too tight or binding then to ease back on the preload


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## IntenseMack10 (May 16, 2006)

rednova75 said:


> Update: spoke to CC apparently any clicking, popping noise and bearing faliure comes from incorrect installation and not a problem with the angleset!! They said it comes from the gimbles not been pressure locked into place correctly causing the bearing to move around. Suggestion was to make sure that both gimbles come in contact with the cups at the same time then really tighten down the preload to pressure lock the gimbles. Then If the steering is too tight or binding then to ease back on the preload


Pretty sad on their part. I really hate when there is an obvious problem and a manufactuer refuses to admit to it. Of course they blame everyone else, not their own design. I get that not every bike running the headset is having a problem, but MANY of them are, and from what I can tell the problem is exactly the same for everyone who is having the problem.

If they are still denying the issue that doesnt bode well for them coming out with fixed gimbal / bearing interfaces. Anyone looking to buy an Angleset?!?! Ha.

Since I was getting the problem I guess I'm lucky its on a new generation DH frame that has a slack enough HA stock, and I dont feel I NEED to run the Angleset to make the bike rideable. Like I said, I couldnt even really notice a difference when I got the King headset on there. And to me the noise and cluncking FAR outweighed the hardly perceived benefit of a slacker HA. So, new headset = problem solved.


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## doodooboi (Dec 29, 2006)

ok. Read all the post and remedies folks has put on here and they all sound great. As I kept reading and reading my list of remedies grew longer and longer. Well I was about to start on that list but then I just decided to add one more 3mm headset spacer and tapp the star nut in just a few mm more. So as I put things back togther I really tighten things down alot more than I ever had. Now the knocking sounds is gone. No lube, grease, or antiseaze needed. I then took off that 3mm spacer and tightened every thing down again and sure a ***** the knocking was back.There was no play in the headset just that knocking. So I have had a few rides since putting the 3mm spacer and adding a few taps on the start nut deeper. It has yet to produce that knocking sound. Oh and I have both tried the -1.5 and -0.5 cups. and no knocking. Hope this help a little.


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## 02sedona (May 23, 2006)

Not sure if anyone here has tried out works components headsets. They are out of the uk and put out a real high quality product. It is a fixed position so you need to knoW what kind of angles you like your bike at. I have had it on my driver 8 for a year now without a single issue. I am a bike mechanic by trade and have not seen enough anglesets with issues but sound like they are problematic for some people. But I also see people thread pedals in and strip out crank arms as well so not every one is that great at fixing their own bike. Just letting you guys know there are other offset headsets out there.


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