# K/D 2 x XML, MJ880 Clone



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*K/D MS 880 clone*. Not as fancy as the Solarstorm ( which they sell as well ) but likely do the same job as the other cheap two XM-L emitter lamps. At least these will likely handle heat better and have a decent mode set-up ( press to hold strobe ) Kaidomain looks to have a few two Xm-l lamps that ( while not fancy ) have a decent mode arrangement. Not that I'm stumping for K/D but I just had to tell folks about the MS clone.


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Looks pretty good. Thanks for the link. Are you buying this Cat-man-do? They only thing it doesn't seem to have is any indicator of the battery life remaining.


----------



## Khrystyan27 (Jul 3, 2011)

@Cat, are you going to buy this product?

It is a better sollution than SolarStorm X2?


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

No, I won't be buying one of these but if I was a newbe looking for a good bar light I would definitely consider it. Too bad these weren't around two years ago. Not sure if they have battery indicators on these but I will attempt to find out when I get the chance...off to work for now...


----------



## Khrystyan27 (Jul 3, 2011)

To be honest, i really don't know what to choose...

This light (copy of the MJ-880) or the SolarStorm X2?

Which is more suitable for modding? Maybe swaping the optics with some aspherics? And improving the thermal dissipation?


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Khrystyan27 said:


> To be honest, i really don't know what to choose...
> 
> This light (copy of the MJ-880) or the SolarStorm X2?
> 
> Which is more suitable for modding? Maybe swaping the optics with some aspherics? And improving the thermal dissipation?


I can't answer those questions but I like the look of the Solarstorm X2. Myself, I'm curious as to how easy one of these lamps might be to mod when it comes to LED replacement. With XM-L2's coming out if you can switch out the emitters without any problems that would be a big plus.


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

This looks like the same light at dx
UltraFire D-50 2 x Cree XM-L T6 580lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Light Headlamp - Black (4 x 18650) - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

varider said:


> This looks like the same light at dx
> UltraFire D-50 2 x Cree XM-L T6 580lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Light Headlamp - Black (4 x 18650) - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX


Wow!...those look nice. I like these better than the K/D version. The black is much better looking than the pale gray on the K/D.

One thing that did jump out at me on the D/X ad...*.580lm?* ( :skep: )
That's got to be an error in the ad.


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Yeah, that can't be right. Let's hope not anyway. I wonder if these will get pulled because they are using the ultrafire name. Two other colors on dx
UltraFire D-50 2 x Cree XM-L T6 580lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Light Headlamp - Golden (4 x 18650) - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX
UltraFire D-50 2 x Cree XM-L T6 580lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Light Headlamp - Blue (4 x 18650) - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX


----------



## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

I'm introducing a friend to night riding and he insists to buy a clone one. This "ultrafire" 8080 clone might be a good place to start. Do you think I can install a wide angle lens on it? I can get one from action led http://www.action-led-lights.com/collections/accessories/products/wide-angle-lens-for-the-mj-880 although it was designed for the original MJ 880.

The battery holder looks cool too. Much better than the simple Velcro one. 

I've been trying to avoid purchasing on dx because they just take so much time..... I'll see if he likes the grey one. If he does buy it, I will review it here.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

varider said:


> Yeah, that can't be right. Let's hope not anyway. I wonder if these will get pulled because they are using the ultrafire name. Two other colors on dx
> UltraFire D-50 2 x Cree XM-L T6 580lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Light Headlamp - Golden (4 x 18650) - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX
> UltraFire D-50 2 x Cree XM-L T6 580lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Light Headlamp - Blue (4 x 18650) - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX


Yeah, these colors are interesting but I'd like to see a "Gun metal Blue" or "dark metallic gray" like the Quad XM-L model. The black does look nice though.

I sent the D/X guy a PM telling him about the "580 lumen" on the ad. He usually answers in a couple days.


----------



## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

Still no news about this one?  From all these D99, SolarStorm X2 and now this D50, the last one seems to be the best one for the bars as it comes with an OP reflector AND we might actually be able to swap the lenses for the original MJ880 ones. A combination of one wide angle lense with the original one might be a good combination. 
I guess I will have to convince me friend to buy this one


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

I think the two button arrangement on these might be less than ideal. From the manafont link on the other thread.



> 4 Modes: Hi > Mi > Lo > Strobe (press right swich for 2 secs to enter Strobe)
> Switch Location: Left on/off & Right modes adjustment


What we really need is comparison shots of all three dual-led lights, in the same manner as Francois in his yearly shoot-out. Obviously. Maybe we can convince dx to send them all to Cat and he can do all the work. 

I bought a magicshine 868 clone for around $32 that I'm real happy with. It's brighter than the 808 and a major flooder. That and the triple and quatro xml led all deserve to part of the best-bang-for-your-buck conversation.


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Since nobody posted any reviews yet...
Clicky - here are some detailed pics of the light. Imo this light is awesome and one of the best choices atm.

Some technical details:
2 leds in series, current on leds in 3 modes - 0.58A-1.53A-2.36A
2 buttons to control the light, one turns it on and off, another changes modes. These is a mode memory, if you turn it off - it will turn on in the same mode as it was before turning off (unless you disconnect the battery, this resets memory).
Simple 2 stage voltage indicator, green switched to red at 6.41v on input.
LEDs are mounted on thick aluminium...erm, inserts? Don't know the correct english term for that. These inserts are 21x7mm with 2mm recess in the front for mounting leds on 16mm stars. Then they're inserted into case with very small gap on the sides (about 0.1-0.2mm or so). Fill this gap with thermal paste and you'll have perfect thermal transfer to the outer case, which is massive enough to handle 2 leds on full power.
Reflectors are orange-peel and made from aluminium, 21x14mm.
Driver looks very nice, good soldering everywhere. Thick silicone wires to leds too, overall quality of light is very, very good.

And then you have the battery pack...which is awesome! Its made from aluminium extrusion profile with 2 screwed-on covers (with rubber seals) on both sides. This makes it waterproof and the best thing about it - you can easily insert any non-protected 18650 cells into it.
Just unscrew one cover, insert 4 panasonic 3400 cells and you have a 6800mAh battery, no need to solder anything. 
These are 4 cells included, made by ASO (some chinese company). They have about about 2100mAh capacity per cell, overall battery capacity (measured on Imax B6 at 0.7A discharge current) - 4246mAh.
The only downside is that it comes without any pouches, just one velcro strap - but it fits into standart chinese pouches for these batteries.

Overall this light (unlike D-99) is very well constructed and I was very impressed with it. Haven't tried it on road yet, so I can't give any comments about beam profile or brightness - but in the room testing it gives very wide beam with enough brightness to light up a whole wall.


----------



## PedroDank (Oct 27, 2012)

That looks great, kir! Love the battery case design. Really really great. I have a 8 18650 cells taken from an old laptop and I've always wanted to test them for a bike light...this could work well as a cheap backup battery (considering that a good Xeccon one is on my way).

Did you get it from DX? Thanks for the photos! Looking forward for beamshots


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

This one is from kaidomain, silver version is sold only there afaik.
Keep in mind that this battery pack is not designed for constant opening/closing, you'll wear out the screw holes very fast. But you can get it and replace cells inside to get a high-capacity battery.
I won't be able to make any beamshoots atm - my mate stole this light from me to use on his bike  And I don't really know to do them properly anyway.


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Great info Kir. Looks like better thermal management than the d99, although I'm no expert.


----------



## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

Kir said:


> And then you have the battery pack...which is awesome! Its made from aluminium extrusion profile with 2 screwed-on covers (with rubber seals) on both sides. This makes it waterproof and the best thing about it - you can easily insert any non-protected 18650 cells into it.
> Just unscrew one cover, insert 4 panasonic 3400 cells and you have a 6800mAh battery, no need to solder anything.


Thank you for the Review and the photos Kir

KD sells the battery separately 17,40 USD
http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S021564


----------



## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

Thank you HakanC and Kir!
That battery pack from Kaidomain comes with a PCB, is there any reason I should not use protected Panasonic cells in there?
Want to charge it with my Magicshine charger, hope the plugs will be compatible.


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

It's simply not needed, you'll just make double protection. And I really doubt that you'll fit protected cells in this battery pack, there is barely enough length for normal batteries.


----------



## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

HakanC said:


> Thank you for the Review and the photos Kir
> 
> KD sells the battery separately 17,40 USD
> http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S021564


Sweet looking battery case! I've ordered two and will put the through a little abuse. I love the idea of being able to easily upgrade the pack with the latest cells. It is too bad they are slightly more robust in design and quicker to open/close. For a 24 hour solo, swapping precharged cells would be a cool way to go.


----------



## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

HakanC said:


> Thank you for the Review and the photos Kir
> 
> KD sells the battery separately 17,40 USD
> http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S021564


Thanks for the Link! Has anybody tested this battery already? Is it available in other colours too (black maybeeeeeee)?


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

I'm interested in this light/battery/charger package. 2 hours minimum on high would be very nice (as they advertise). Where can one get a nylon pouch for the battery? I looked over the site and could not find one, sigh.


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on this. I liked Kir's review of the light (in terms of the build) and that the battery pack is strong and can easily be upgraded if desired. If I don't get the 2+ hours on 'high' I will complain. It's on back-order, but I'll update when it arrives and provide beam shots. Beam shots will include comparison to the Lumina 650 (which has tested out well to it's claimed 650 lumens in the mtbr shootout).


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

2 tests on high w/ a fan running @ 80 degrees f.
1st test, 1hr. 51mins.
2nd test. 2hrs. 4mins.


----------



## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Whitedog1 said:


> Thanks for the Link! Has anybody tested this battery already? Is it available in other colours too (black maybeeeeeee)?


Will answer my own question now :eekster: 
Did a short review on the battery pack (better tell it a battery hoder cause the deliverd cells inside are crap) 
You can find it here (post #133)


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

2500mAh - not bad 
UltraFire D-50 2 x Cree XM-L T6 580lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Light Headlamp - Black (4 x 18650) - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX - this one has 2000mAh battery pack, cells are usual blue chinese crap.


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Finally got my light. Please track your package more closely than I did. From China to Pennsylvania:

Ordered = July 4th
Delivery attempt with notice supposedly left and never seen = July 19th
Checked the tracking online = August 1st
Re-delivered = August 5th

If I had not noticed it for 5 more business days it would have been sent back to China. Anyway, I checked the light down in my basement. Super bright compared to my Lumina 650. Best comparison I can make is that with the KD unit set on Low, it was brighter than the Lumina on Medium (400 lumens according to manufacturer). If I had to eyeball estimate the differences on High, I would say that the KD is close to 2x the brightness of the Lumina (for whatever that is worth). 

Weight:

Unit = 135 grams (as advertised)
Battery = 250 grams
2 battery straps + large O-ring = 8 grams

Was leaning towards not riding today, but I guess that's out of the question. Gotta see how this looks on the trail. Eventually I will do run-time tests and beam shots (on the trail).


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

steelhmr said:


> Finally got my light. Please track your package more closely than I did. From China to Pennsylvania:
> 
> Ordered = July 4th
> Delivery attempt with notice supposedly left and never seen = July 19th
> ...


So did you order from KD or DX? You seemed to get it pretty quick.

Could you tell us your impressions of the beam shape of this light. Someone else described this a being more floody than the Solarstorm X2, which has been described as somewhat spotty. Of course there was disagreement on that point, but without beam shots it's difficult to compare the two.


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

varider said:


> So did you order from KD or DX? You seemed to get it pretty quick.
> 
> Could you tell us your impressions of the beam shape of this light. Someone else described this a being more floody than the Solarstorm X2, which has been described as somewhat spotty. Of course there was disagreement on that point, but without beam shots it's difficult to compare the two.


Varider,

This was from KD. The pattern is definitely more of a flood, at least compared to my Lumina. Of course, that has to be expected to some degree since this is a 2x LED setup. I took it out on the trails last night. My time was limited so I only rode one trail. Also, I left right at sunset and got on that trail about 10 minutes later. Even though the sky was cloudy, there was still a lot of light hanging in the sky. I ride in the forest though under foliage so it still was too dark to ride without a light in there.

Setup was the KD on the bars and a Lumina on my helmet. Very soon in I could tell that I was going to have to order another light for my helmet. The KD unit is so bright and full that it completely dwarfs any light being output from the Lumina. As stated earlier, it was far from 100% dark so I didn't get the maximum contrast needed to see the full effect of the light. What I did see was very impressive though. I am very very pleased with the light output. I will try to get beam shots sometime this month. Hopefully sooner than later, but gf is leaving for out of town today for a week and I'll need her to help me with this project.

Just to be clear, this is the exact one that I ordered: http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S021521


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

*Runtime Test #1*

*Setup*:

1. KD light facing the air AC/heater in my office. 
2. Fan (only) running parallel to the front profile of the unit. 
3. 75-80 degrees F in the room.
4. 'High' setting used throughout entirety of test.

*Results*

Before I go into the results, some notes about the test. As seen from the setup, the light was going into the fan so I could not see if the light pattern was changing. That being said, everything was running smooth. At the 2:07 mark, I went up to see if the unit was getting hot. I swear right when I was putting my fingers toward it, something happened. The light on the UI changed color or shape (bear in mind that I am colorblind so these changes are not as obvious to me). It continued to run and I didn't notice if the light output changed or not.

It kept running and I cycled the UI to confirm that I was indeed still on the High setting. As it was approaching the 3-hour mark I again cycled through the UI, but it was again still on high. After the 3-hour mark I feel that I definitely noticed that it was not as bright (this was the first time in the test that I specifically noted a change in brightness). The unit continued to run until at the 4:15 mark when I had to leave for the day (obviously I wasn't expecting it to run this long). The light output was very weak by the end, but again, it was still running. I even cycled the UI one more time and it was still on High, as the other two setting were significantly weaker.

In summary, I will have to test again and set it up so I can distinctly notice if the brightness changes. So far though, I am very very very pleased with the runtime. I need to quantify though when exactly it deviated from the max brightness (I was unaware that it was built in to run on lower power when the battery was low).


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Great info. Thank you.

Since this runs almost four hours, which is about the same as a Magicshine 808, I don't see how this could be any brighter.


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

varider said:


> Great info. Thank you.
> 
> Since this runs almost four hours, which is about the same as a Magicshine 808, I don't see how this could be any brighter.


It ran for 4+ hours, but the light output at the end and sometime before the end was significantly lower than the maximum brightness. Again, I will have to quantify that with future tests. Also, this is a clone of the 880 with U2, not the 808.


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

What I was trying to say is that they use the same amount of energy in the same amount of time. The two xml led light can't be putting out that much more light than a single xml led light if it drains the battery in the same amount of time. That's if the leds are the same between these lights and driver efficiencies are the same. Of course this light uses the newer U2 light, so that already makes it different.

To make the light brighter it needs to drain the battery faster. The 880 comes with a 6 cell battery and it only runs 2.5 hours on high. 

Anyway, I think this light probably has a better beam than a single xml (808 or clone) light. That makes it useful in my opinion. It probably not as bright as bright as the 880 though. I do like the two button user interface.


----------



## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

The description of these lights have always been works of fantasy that merely hint at the truth . I quite like the lights, but you would do well not accept any of the words and numbers in the description as being true. Just to give a few back of the envelope examples


The specs published by the manufacturer, Cree, on an XM-L U2 is that the maximum lumens produced at 2.8A is 936 x 2 = 1872
The only Cree LED that produces 1100 lumens at 2.8A is the XM-L2 and that's in the U3 bin.
The power consumed by an XM-L at 2.8A is 3.33V x 2 = ~18.6 W per hour. The available power in a li-ion cell rated at 2500 mAh is ~9.2W x 4 = ~37W. Even if you could achieve 100% efficiency, 4 x 18650 2500mAh cells could only run at 2.8A for less than 2 hours.
to run 2 XM-Ls at 2.8A for 4 hours would require in excess of ~75W or more than 8 x 2500 mAh cells.
working the other way, if 4 x 2500 mAh cells last 4 hours 37W / 4 hours = 9.25W per hour / 2 XM-Ls = 4.625W = ~1.45A each XM-L = less than 570 lumens each XM-L.
Given these "exaggerations" in the description, I would be utterly astounded if they were using XM-Ls from the highest (& most expensive) U2 bin.

One of the things I like about using 2 LEDs is that they produce more light per watt than a single LED driven at twice the current. Ignoring questions of driver efficiency,


1 XM-L U2 at 2.8A = a maximum of 1067 lumens
2 x XM-L U2 at 1.4A = a maximum of 623 x 2 = 1246 lumens
Like I said I quite like the lights, just don't believe the words & numbers quoted for them.


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

I don't feel that I am explaining myself well enough. This unit DID NOT produce the maximum brightness for the entire 4:15. For all I know, and I am hypothesizing here, it ran with max brightness for 2-3 hours and then switched to some emergency power-saving mode for the rest of the test. I am not equipped to perform the test well at work since the setup I used directs the light into a fan instead of a wall. That is to say I can't see the beam well enough. I will re-test this with pictures at home to show what I mean when I say the the light output appears to change.

Additionally, Kir measured the current of this unit on high at 2.36A, and not the 2.8A listed on the site.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

find_bruce said:


> The description of these lights have always been works of fantasy that merely hint at the truth . I quite like the lights, but you would do well not accept any of the words and numbers in the description as being true. .....


The only thing one should believe about these Chinese lights is, the housing will be some kind of aluminum and it will have some kind of LED(s) in it.


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

find_bruce said:


> One of the things I like about using 2 LEDs is that they produce more light per watt than a single LED driven at twice the current. Ignoring questions of driver efficiency,
> 
> 
> 1 XM-L U2 at 2.8A = a maximum of 1067 lumens
> ...


Yeah, that's the question I really had. I know the current to lumen curve isn't linear, so I thought there would be an advantage to using two leds instead of one. It's good to have the actual numbers, though. Thanks.

So how does this extrapolate out to three or four leds? Those are becoming more prevalent in the chinese market.



steelhmr said:


> I don't feel that I am explaining myself well enough. This unit DID NOT produce the maximum brightness for the entire 4:15. For all I know, and I am hypothesizing here, it ran with max brightness for 2-3 hours and then switched to some emergency power-saving mode for the rest of the test. I am not equipped to perform the test well at work since the setup I used directs the light into a fan instead of a wall. That is to say I can't see the beam well enough. I will re-test this with pictures at home to show what I mean when I say the the light output appears to change.
> 
> Additionally, Kir measured the current of this unit on high at 2.36A, and not the 2.8A listed on the site.


Ok, I get is now. It doesn't last 4 hours on high. I wonder if Kir measure the current going through the leds or coming out of the battery.

Well I'm struggling with find_bruce's numbers, but from what I gather this light is probably emitting 1100 lumens or more and lasts less than 2 hours on high. If Kir measured the led current, than it's emitting way more than 1100 lumens (ignoring driver efficiency).

I think this light is probably a good buy, if the beam is as floody as I imagine.


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

I'm the only one here with basic electronics equipment and some chinese bike lights? 

All these numbers in the description of all chinese lights are very exaggerated. For example Fenix BT20 supplies 3A to LED on turbo mode and specifies 750 lumen output - that sounds correct. But these chinese "1200-1800" lumens from single xml are obvious lies. Same with "6400" mAh batteries, you will never get more that ~4000, maybe 4400 from a chinese battery.
I will measure the current on leds/battery in a few days/weeks...don't really have any spare time with work and bike riding and some other stuff like flying R/C helicopters 

For now I will explain the change in brightness. Yes, this light (and probably most other 2 XML lights) will have lower brightness in end of the battery life. The reason is simple - it uses step-down/buck driver with 2 leds connected in series. When battery (input) voltage drops lower than the voltage of 2 leds in series (Vf, depends on current/temperature/bin, usually about 3.1-3.2V per led, 6.2-6.4v for 2 leds) driver will slowly stop working and the current on leds will slowly drop to zero.
Frequently Asked Questions its expained in more details here (2nd question)
Buck converter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and here.

So basically when battery voltage drops to ~6.8v and lower - leds brightness will begin to drop too. Then there will be a linear drop in brightness until battery is fully discharged.
And thats actually a good thing - you will get slow brightness decrease, longer battery life in the end of the discharge cycle, noticable indication of discharged battery, etc. 
Imo this slow brightness drop is much better than sudden cutoff in 1 XML lights which have full regulation in entire discharge cycle.





Here is a quick video to show how it works (sorry for the quality, used my old cellphone). Numbers on the left are current draw from PSU, numbers on the right are output voltage, D-50 light in middle mode. This is a very simple DC psu, so numbers aren't very accurate - but good enough for demonstration.
As you can see light output is fully regulated until about 7v, at which point light draws 1.4A from psu. Then as I decrease the voltage - current/brightness drops too, driver slowly stops working and then completely turns off at 5v (another good thing, light will turn off even if protection pcb in battery will fail to activate).
If I increase/decrease voltage between 5 and 7v - brightness will change too.

So thats what steelhmr noticed in his discharge test, sorry for the kinda long explanation


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

*Run Test No. 2*

*Setup*

1. KD Light facing away from fan.
2. 82 degrees F.
3. 'High' setting used throughout entirety of test.

*Results*

1. I started this test too late. 
2. 2:09 of runtime until UI lights changed color.
3. 2:45 abandoned test as I needed to sleep.
4. Some change in light output noticed between 2:30 and 2:45 (might not have come across as well in the pics).

*Pics*

Note: Unit was facing a wall with a mirror during the test so I turned unit towards a different wall for pics. Sorry for mild inconsistency in pics. Just used my cell phone (Samsung S3 with 'low-light' setting). Wall was 13' from the light. I believe you can see the light output drop slightly between 2:10 an 2:30 (look toward the outside of the pattern). Same for 2:30 to 2:45. I really just wanted to see when the first change was on this test. Images are probably best viewed by opening first link and then hitting the left arrow on the pic(s).

Initial,








2:01,








2:10,








2:30,








2:45,









(Sorry for living in the stone age with photo bucket. I'll try to host these somewhere else as I just noticed the ads, yeesh.)


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

My thoughts about the test done by Steelhmr: Something very odd going on. Even with auto-power down no two-LED lamp should run for 4hrs unless the lamp was on mid-mode at the start and then powered down at some point. Even then the output of the lamp has to be called in question. Typical run times on high should be between 2.5-3 hr. and that with good batteries. Even with the lamp on mid-mode 4hrs would be excellent run time.

Nice that this lamp has auto-power down. Most Chinese made lamps don't have this feature.


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Well, I'm not keen on running too many more tests, but for the next one I will setup a better location where I don't have to reposition the light for pics. Additionally, I will take a reference pic with the Lumina 650 to compare it against. One comment about the pics, the hot spot comes across exaggerated in those pics. In real life the unit doesn't cast a virtual full moon against the wall.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Something about the 880 clones that I noticed tonight while looking at both the Kaidomain and D/X web sites.; The K/D models claim to have a 2800ma driver, the D/X ( Ultrafire D-50 ) claim to have a 1800ma driver and output 580 lumen. This could be a misstatement on D/X's part but there is really no way to know for sure. 

All things considered, if i was going to buy one I would most likely buy from Kaidomain because theirs has the more powerful driver. Then again if Kaidomain runs out of stock who's to say they don't restock with a lamp that might have another lower-powered driver. Stuff like this happens. If Steelhmr has one with a less powerful driver than all his tests are with a lamp that is outputting something around 600 lumen. I'm just mentioning this because it is a possibility.


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Something about the 880 clones that I noticed tonight while looking at both the Kaidomain and D/X web sites.; The K/D models claim to have a 2800ma driver, the D/X ( Ultrafire D-50 ) claim to have a 1800ma driver and output 580 lumen. This could be a misstatement on D/X's part but there is really no way to know for sure.
> 
> All things considered, if i was going to buy one I would most likely buy from Kaidomain because theirs has the more powerful driver. Then again if Kaidomain runs out of stock who's to say they don't restock with a lamp that might have another lower-powered driver. Stuff like this happens. If Steelhmr has one with a less powerful driver than all his tests are with a lamp that is outputting something around 600 lumen. I'm just mentioning this because it is a possibility.


Cat,

Isn't it equally possible that they just supplied this light with a very strong battery pack? It essentially runs on high for slightly over 2 hours and then gradually fades out. It's hard imagine that this is a 600 lumen light since I have a Lumina 650 (rated and tested at 650 lumens) to directly compare it to. The KD unit blows away the Lumina in terms of brightness (and every other property one would want in a light). Sorry that I don't have the equipment to test the output, but Kir already tested it and gave his findings on the first page of this thread. I'm just reporting my experience from a less electronics-savy and more from a user-experience perspective. My next task will be to take shootout-style pics with the proper camera and terrain settings. That should tell a better picture (no pun intended).


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

steelhmr said:


> Isn't it equally possible that they just supplied this light with a very strong battery pack?


Possible, well anything's possible. Probable, no way. These are cheap bike lights that have cut lots of corners to get a very low price point. Great value all in all but not top level output nor top quality components.

I have not worked on this particular light model but have repaired a couple MS lights so I have seen how cheap lights are made.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

steelhmr said:


> Cat,
> 
> Isn't it equally possible that they just supplied this light with a very strong battery pack? It essentially runs on high for slightly over 2 hours and then gradually fades out. It's hard imagine that this is a 600 lumen light since I have a Lumina 650 (rated and tested at 650 lumens) to directly compare it to. The KD unit blows away the Lumina in terms of brightness (and every other property one would want in a light). Sorry that I don't have the equipment to test the output, but Kir already tested it and gave his findings on the first page of this thread. I'm just reporting my experience from a less electronics-savy and more from a user-experience perspective. My next task will be to take shootout-style pics with the proper camera and terrain settings. That should tell a better picture (no pun intended).


Sorry, I didn't want it to sound like I didn't believe what you were saying. If you say it blows away the Lumina I believe you. At least it's nice to hear positive feedback even if the results are somewhat unusual. All things considered if I were in the market for a good Chinese made lamp I might choose one of these ( or one of the Solorstorm X2's ) Good positive feedback from both lamps.


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Sorry, I didn't want it to sound like I didn't believe what you were saying. If you say it blows away the Lumina I believe you. At least it's nice to hear positive feedback even if the results are somewhat unusual. All things considered if I were in the market for a good Chinese made lamp I might choose one of these ( or one of the Solorstorm X2's ) Good positive feedback from both lamps.


Cat,

No offense taken at all. I can only report what I have observed. I share the same tempered enthusiasm for the light. During the first test at 2:00 I was all fistpumps. At 2:30 I think let out an audible "woo-hoo". By 3:00 I switched to "hmmm" and at 3:30 I knew something wasn't adding up. On the 2nd test my goal was to see if the light output visually changed through the first two hours on the high setting and my observation is that it did not. After 2:09, it does begin to change but I can't begin to quantify it without any additional electronics equipment. I hope that when I can produce shootout pics it will be obvious to everyone that this light is putting out a very respectable beam, at least compared to the Lumina 650. And before any questions begin to surface about the integrity of THAT light, I have two of them to use for comparison


----------



## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

looks like a tactical flashlight beam pattern. aren't there bike mounts for Fenix tactical flashlights ? you would be able to use your own 18650 cells and charger, and you could take it hiking, or look for stuff under the bed, or survive a blackout.

its crazy though how they were able to include so much in the package at the price - it's like they are selling the product for the cost of what the components cost - how do they make a profit ?

the Chinese never cease to amaze me - from the amount of clones they put out you would have guessed it must have taken 10 planets the size of Earth to produce it all.

and considering the real products that they are cloning are also made in China it makes you wonder how are they able to undercut the real deal by 4X in price ? the Chinese seem to defy any sort of rational analysis - or maybe i'm just not smart enough to understand them.

i do think the established companies suffer a bit from over-engineering. since they don't compete on price their engineering efforts end up directed at problems that don't really exist. this is especially true of German companies who spend 90% of their energy solving imaginary non-existent problems. for example the Porsche 918 has 55 computers just to control the drivetrain ... apparently somebody in Germany was bored.


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

androgen said:


> looks like a tactical flashlight beam pattern.


I just want to say that I wouldn't take too much away from those pics in terms of the actual beam pattern.

1. I mainly used to pics to compare among themselves as to whether the brightness of the light was changing over the course of the 2nd test. 
2. It was indoors with white walls from 13 feet away.
3. The pictures seemed to exaggerate the contrast between the hot spot and the rest of the beam. I don't feel that it is as drastic of a difference in person as it appears in the pics.

Perhaps it does mimic that of a tactical beam pattern to some degree. I just wanted to state that my purpose of those indoor pics was simply to compare the brightness during different times of the test. I'll try to get outdoor pics soon, but I just had a crash today and (slightly) bent my rear rim so it just dropped down a notch on my to do list


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Wish they sell the head only


----------



## gdkeys (Sep 2, 2008)

Can anyone speak to whether the battery holder will fit in this pouch?

Action-LED-Lights ? 4 Cell Battery Case


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

It will.


----------



## HakanC (May 12, 2007)

HakanC said:


> KD sells the battery separately 17,40 USD
> http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S021564


Now there is one more version of the same battery at KD, slightly cheaper too
http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S022419

/Håkan
SWEDEN


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

HakanC said:


> Now there is one more version of the same battery at KD, slightly cheaper too
> http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S022419
> 
> /Håkan
> SWEDEN


What about this one:http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S021637

6 x 18650 Waterproof Battery Set for Bicycle Light
Voltage: 8.4V
Capacity: 8800mAh (Manufacturer rated)

Too good to be true?


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Expect about 4700-4800mAh from it. 6000mAh is you're very lucky.


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Kir said:


> Expect about 4700-4800mAh from it. 6000mAh is you're very lucky.


Thanks. I kind of figured that the 8800 figure needed a bit of translating. 4800 would not be bad at all for that price though. Or, I could go with the one Hakan posted and replace the cells?


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Replacing the cells will be better, but more expensive.
If you don't mind extra size and weight of chinese 6x18650/8x18650 batteries - buy them, they usually have good capacity just because they're using more cells.


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

steelhmr said:


> Thanks. I kind of figured that the 8800 figure needed a bit of translating. 4800 would not be bad at all for that price though. Or, I could go with the one Hakan posted and replace the cells?


I would go to 4x 3000-3400mAh panasonics from fasttech or lipo from hobbyking .


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I have found that most of the batteries from Kaidomain are hit or miss ( see my posts in the battery thread).
Buying a good, solid battery from Xeccon or Action is what I would suggest.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MK96 said:


> I would go to 4x 3000-3400mAh panasonics from fasttech or lipo from hobbyking .


When replacing batteries you really do have to consider your need for more run time. No sense in buying the most expensive batteries if you typically only ride 2-2.5 hrs. in the dark. You can still buy good ( Sanyo or Samsung ) 2600 to 2800mAh cells at bargain prices and you will be surprised at how well they will work. Currently I use a 4-cell battery that was built with either Sanyo 2600's or Baks. ( 3 yr old Bikeray battery ) This makes the battery 5200mAh. I've been very pleased using these batteries and have never had a problem with run times. Now if you are running a lamp with three or more emitters than you will need a bigger battery ( if you want 3 or more hours of run time.)


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> When replacing batteries you really do have to consider your need for more run time.


I considered the longest run time implicitly but you are right. If you don't need that much run time go for 2600-2800 or even good 2200-2400. I am going to power 2 SS X2 and Skyray S6 (perhaps) from one battery (8000 mAh lipo) - the bigger the better for me


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> When replacing batteries you really do have to consider your need for more run time. No sense in buying the most expensive batteries if you typically only ride 2-2.5 hrs. in the dark. You can still buy good ( Sanyo or Samsung ) 2600 to 2800mAh cells at bargain prices and you will be surprised at how well they will work. Currently I use a 4-cell battery that was built with either Sanyo 2600's or Baks. ( 3 yr old Bikeray battery ) This makes the battery 5200mAh. I've been very pleased using these batteries and have never had a problem with run times. Now if you are running a lamp with three or more emitters than you will need a bigger battery ( if you want 3 or more hours of run time.)


Yeah, I am going to wait until my new light arrives before making any decisions. I am very pleased with the light output and run time of my KD 2 XML-U2. The new light is 3x and I am anticipating the possibility that I may (only) be paying for a lighthead and charger with a sup-par battery. My current need is only for a 2hr or less run time, but next year I will be doing races that include multiple night laps so I may need more power (or batteries) in either case.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Ordered a clone and the Action LED lens for the 880 with high hopes that it will fit and give me a bright flood for my bars. I don't suppose anyone's already attempted this combo?


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

scvkurt03 said:


> Ordered a clone and the Action LED lens for the 880 with high hopes that it will fit and give me a bright flood for my bars. I don't suppose anyone's already attempted this combo?


I saw your post in the other thread. Did you order the XML-T6 version (https://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S021414) or the XML-U2 version (https://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S021518)?


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

steelhmr said:


> I saw your post in the other thread. Did you order the XML-T6 version (http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S021414) or the XML-U2 version (http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S021518)?


The black U2 version. That's the newer version, right? http://kaidomain.com/Product/Details.S021521


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

scvkurt03 said:


> The black U2 version. That's the newer version, right? http://kaidomain.com/Product/Details.S021521


Yeah, that's the newer/better one. On the other thread you had linked to the T6 version. I have the black U2 version as well and I'm curious to read what you have to say about it when the time comes.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Yeah - I linked that before I ordered. I'll definitely post back in this thread with my thoughts on the light and the lenses.


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

scvkurt03 said:


> Yeah - I linked that before I ordered. I'll definitely post back in this thread with my thoughts on the light and the lenses.


Nice. I think as more and more questionable SSX2's hit the market, people will start getting over their $50+ fear and start giving this unit a harder look. The extra $10-$15 appears to go a long way.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

steelhmr said:


> Nice. I think as more and more questionable SSX2's hit the market, people will start getting over their $50+ fear and start giving this unit a harder look. The extra $10-$15 appears to go a long way.


Well, I have one of those on the way too. I bought that one looking for a light, low profile helmet light. A friend ordered the version on amazon and is pretty happy with it so hopefully Ill get a good one. Fingers crossed.


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

scvkurt03 said:


> Well, I have one of those on the way too. I bought that one looking for a light, low profile helmet light. A friend ordered the version on amazon and is pretty happy with it so hopefully Ill get a good one. Fingers crossed.


Then you can be the one to do a direct comparison between the two. I have nothing against the SSX2, but as the price continues to go down, I am reading about more and more shortcomings (unit and/or battery).


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

steelhmr said:


> I have nothing against the SSX2, but as the price continues to go down, I am reading about more and more shortcomings (unit and/or battery).


I bought 2 SS X2 heads since I could not find these MJ880 clone heads alone. I pretty much don't like that li-ion cells lottery from CN :-(


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MK96 said:


> I bought 2 SS X2 heads since I could not find these MJ880 clone heads alone. I pretty much don't like that li-ion cells lottery from CN :-(


Pretty much doesn't matter who you buy these from, the battery quality will always be questionable. This is also true of the lamp heads as well because time and time again we see a lack of standard quality controls with the mass produced Chinese lamps. You accept all this before you decide to roll the dice. A better battery you can always buy and use with any number of lamps but if the lamp is crap or doesn't meet your expectations than you rolled a snake eyes. Just remember, everyone has different expectations. What makes someone else happy might not please you at all.

If you really wanted the 880 clone you should of bought one and not worried that you couldn't just buy the lamp head alone. While you might have saved $10 doing it that way it wouldn't be like you didn't get anything for the extra $10 of buying one with battery. Even if you don't like the cheap battery it will probably still work and still be there if you need a back-up. You just can't ( or shouldn't ) rely upon it as your primary voltage source. Regardless, once you know it's limitations it can still be of use.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

So, Cat, what's the most cost effective way to get a good, reliable battery? Make one? Buy from Action LED?


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

scvkurt03 said:


> So, Cat, what's the most cost effective way to get a good, reliable battery? Make one? Buy from Action LED?


Not sure I can answer that. Probably best to shop around. I'm sure the list I started over on the Battery Thread back in January is out of date. Both Action LED and Xeccon offer some good deals on batteries but I'm sure there must be other places. Been a while since I've done a price survey on bike batteries.

Personally, if I were looking for a good four cell battery I want at least 5200mAh capacity but would prefer something higher like 5600, 5800, 6200 or 6800mAh
Hard to find a decent price on a 4-cell battery made with higher capacity Sanyo, Samsung or Panasonic cells.

If you don't mind fiddling around with loose cells you could try one of those 4-cell holders and buy some decent quality cells to go into it. Not what I would do but it certainly can work if you don't mind the inconvenience of messing with a cell holder.

If you can find a good 4-cell 5600 or 5800mAh battery ( Samsung or Sanyo ) in the $50 USD range that would be a good place to start. If you want more capacity ( > 6000mAh ) the best deals are with 6-cells ( although 6-cell batteries are heavier than 4-cells, thus the lower cost ). Xeccon lighting has some good deals on those.

If I had the money I'd buy one of the 4-cell ( Panasonic cells ) Gloworm batteries ( Action LED ) but those are not cheap. On the other hand Xeccon has a very good price on a Samsung 6-cell (7800mAh ) . Hard to beat the price on those. I don't know why there is such a price jump with 4-cells once you go over 4400mAh. :bluefrown:


----------



## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

looking at fins on Chinese lights makes you wonder if Chinese people understand what fins are for ?

i wonder if Chinese have ever seen an air conditioner or a car radiator and asked themselves why the fins are a fraction of a millimeter on them but are maybe 1/4 inch on the lights they're making ?

the objective of fins is to add surface area, unless you're a Chinese light maker then apparently the objective is to add dead weight.

if these guys built an air conditioner with fins like that it would take up the whole room and weigh 10,000 pounds.

sorry, lol, but i just find it funny.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*D/X Versions Of the 880 clone; More than one type*

Tonight while looking over the D/X stuff I noticed that D/X has a couple versions of the 880 clone. If you want the one with the best features ( U2 emitters, high output, 4-modes ( including press to hold strobe ),..) This "Nitefire" version is the one you want if you are buying from D/X. D/X has at least three other versions with different brand names. While less expensive most of those are only listing 580 lumen. I don't think you want one of those.

I also noticed that D/X is trying to be a little more honest about the output and battery listing...( sometimes ). The Nitefire version is listing the output around 1200 Lumen which is probably accurate. They also list the battery at 3000mAh, also probably accurate. This is a nice trend.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

androgen said:


> looking at fins on Chinese lights makes you wonder if Chinese people understand what fins are for ?
> 
> i wonder if Chinese have ever seen an air conditioner or a car radiator and asked themselves why the fins are a fraction of a millimeter on them but are maybe 1/4 inch on the lights they're making ?
> 
> ...


I am sure that the Chinese understand heat transfer and the need for it on a light. They also understand the economics of making a lamp housing for really low cost. That low cost requirement is what drives the profile of the lamp. Fewer, thicker fins are far easier/cheaper to produce whether by extrusion or machining.

A side effect of the thicker fin design that likely did not occur to the designer is that a thicker fin is less likely to cut a user in the event of contact in a crash.


----------



## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Vancbiker said:


> I am sure that the Chinese understand heat transfer and the need for it on a light. They also understand the economics of making a lamp housing for really low cost. That low cost requirement is what drives the profile of the lamp. Fewer, thicker fins are far easier/cheaper to produce whether by extrusion or machining.
> 
> A side effect of the thicker fin design that likely did not occur to the designer is that a thicker fin is less likely to cut a user in the event of contact in a crash.


the thing is most lights on the market that have fins on them either have no real need for fins or don't derive any serious benefit from the ineffective fins that they do have. this is true for both chinese and "good" lights like lupine.

for example i have had Lupine Piko - and i'm pretty sure if it didn't have fins there would be no difference in performance whatsoever.

in other words, with the exception of very good, high-output lights, the fins on most lights are primarily for decoration. this is the same situation as spoilers on cars - they are for decoration on most cars, with the exception of cars capable of hitting 180 mph or so.

now just because a spoiler isn't needed, doesn't mean you can't add one, as long as it is conservative and doesn't interfere with performance, like so:










same with fins:










and then you have trash like this:










which serves no useful purpose except adding weight, aerodynamic drag, raising your center of gravity and making it hard to open the trunk.

and this is pretty much what fins look like on 3 out of 4 chinese lights, conservatively speaking.

now of course you can still drive a car even with that *thing* plastered on top of it, and you can still use a light with those fins ...

but i find it difficult to use the word "engineering" to describe this mess. the word that comes to mind is "ret4rdation" ...


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Fins add area for heat dissipation. Their location and dimensions do affect their efficiency, but in most all cases will improve heat management. Can fins improve aesthetics? Sure, but the side effect will also be to improve cooling.

1 sq inch area per watt of LED will keep a light cool with moderate airflow (>6-7 mph) in 60 degree F temps. 2 sq inches per watt drops the airflow reqirement to a walking pace. My current helmet light is 18 watts on it's high setting with 14 sq inches area. It still works but only because on everything except fast trail sections I run on medium


----------



## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Vancbiker said:


> Fins add area for heat dissipation. Their location and dimensions do affect their efficiency, but in most all cases will improve heat management. Can fins improve aesthetics? Sure, but the side effect will also be to improve cooling.
> 
> 1 sq inch area per watt of LED will keep a light cool with moderate airflow (>6-7 mph) in 60 degree F temps. 2 sq inches per watt drops the airflow reqirement to a walking pace. My current helmet light is 18 watts on it's high setting with 14 sq inches area. It still works but only because on everything except fast trail sections I run on medium


chinese fins do not significantly increase area. most of the area on chinese lights comes from the enormous size of these lights compared to something like Lupine of same output.

L&M Seca is the only light where fins are 100% functional. The fins are about 80% functional on NiteRider Pro 3600 / 1800. About 60 functional on Betty / Wilma and mostly for decoration on other lights including Piko where they are 100% for decoration.

most metal-bodied lights do not need fins at all. it is only high-output plastic-bodied lights like Seca where the fins are 100% functional. a metal chinese light that is heavy as a tire iron and puts out 500 lumens doesn't need fins - they're just there because Chinese like to make products resemble the real thing - that's why they have "adidos" sneakers and "abble" iPhone chargers. they have been doing the same thing for decades.

if you think those fins serve a function you might as well believe that "abble" and "adidos" are words in chinese.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Love ppl saying cause its made in China and such it can't work. Has nothing to do with where its made its how it made. So many of the lights I see out have Chinese copies, many of which are the exact same thing from the same factory but with crappy parts like chargers and batteries.

Best to have knowledge of all this before trying to bash products. So much of anything is made in China just the cheaper stuff has no stickers where as the way overpriced stuff has a brand name sticker on it.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2


----------



## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

tigris99 said:


> Love ppl saying cause its made in China and such it can't work. Has nothing to do with where its made its how it made. So many of the lights I see out have Chinese copies, many of which are the exact same thing from the same factory but with crappy parts like chargers and batteries.
> 
> Best to have knowledge of all this before trying to bash products. So much of anything is made in China just the cheaper stuff has no stickers where as the way overpriced stuff has a brand name sticker on it.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2


yes you figured it all out. everybody who buys brand name products is an id1ot and you are a genius and outsmarted us all. congratulations !


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

androgen said:


> chinese fins do not significantly increase area. most of the area on chinese lights comes from the enormous size of these lights compared to something like Lupine.


So the country of origin has some effect on how fins add area or not???? So just to make sure basic math has not been overlooked, let's look at the following example. A flat surface of a length and width of one inch is one square inch of area. Now put fins on that one by one surface that are an eighth inch tall and wide with a groove between fins also an eighth inch wide. That will give you four fins. The surface area is now two square inches. 100% more area is a substantial gain and in some instances important. Whether a light needs fins or not is merely a function of what it's power to heat dissipation area ratio is, not country of manufacture.


----------



## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Vancbiker said:


> So the country of origin has some effect on how fins add area or not???? So just to make sure basic math has not been overlooked, let's look at the following example. A flat surface of a length and width of one inch is one square inch of area. Now put fins on that one by one surface that are an eighth inch tall and wide with a groove between fins also an eighth inch wide. That will give you four fins. The surface area is now two square inches. 100% more area is a substantial gain and in some instances important. Whether a light needs fins or not is merely a function of what it's power to heat dissipation area ratio is, not country of manufacture.


how hot does this light get anyway ? if it gets so hot you can barely touch it while riding at 10+ mph then it needs those fins. if not - it doesn't.

i don't think i buy the idea that properly shaped fins would be that difficult to manufacture however. the more logical explanation is that the people who put the fins there simply didn't care about what they were doing, and frankly, if i was working for 10 cents an hour i wouldn't care either.

my father once bought a chinese clamp in a 99 cents store that said 4" on it, but the actual size of the clamp was 3" ... i want to see what kind of formulas you can come up with to explain to me that 3 inches equals 4 inches. LOL.

this is what chinese stuff is like. they have no incentive to make good honest products NONE because they don't have any brand name to protect. they don't care if the light works or not. tomorrow they will sell the same light under a different name and people will again buy it because it will be 10 times cheaper than a real light from a real company.

i don't care if a company is chinese or german. i care about the brand name. DOES IT HAVE ONE ? Huawei is a chinese company that has a brand name. are their phones good ? no. but at least they TRY to make a good phone because they have a brand name that people recognize and they want to protect that brand name.


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

There is a new 2x XM-L2-U2 from Kaidomain. Light head only. Looks very nice: http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S022462


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Love ppl saying cause its made in China and such it can't work. Has nothing to do with where its made its how it made. So many of the lights I see out have Chinese copies, many of which are the exact same thing from the same factory but with crappy parts like chargers and batteries.
> 
> Best to have knowledge of all this before trying to bash products. So much of anything is made in China just the cheaper stuff has no stickers where as the way overpriced stuff has a brand name sticker on it.


Yes, yes, when can talk till the cows come home about how cheap the Chinese products are. Just remember, just like anywhere else in the world the people who design the products are not the one's that make it. What makes a high quality product has to do with design, quality parts and skilled people to put all the stuff together and then very good quality control parameters to make sure every product makes the grade. ( *Truthfully, be glad the Chinese DON'T follow strict quality control because if they did the cost would be 3x as much )...:yesnod:

Most of the Chinese lamps I see being sold look very simplistic. I don't doubt that many corners are cut putting these together but if you look back at where all this started with the release of the MagicShine lamps, design and function have changed in those few years since and improvements are seen in some of the stuff now being sold._ ( That's why we talk about and review these things to find out which are crap and which are okay ) _ Quality control is likely still crap but if the product is designed better you will more likely get a better product ( most of the time ).

Just keep in mind; these lamps are designed for quick inexpensive sale and are not designed to meet the standards used in a Space shuttle program. Some will be good and some will suck but few will be great. You're buying something that cost about what you would spend for a tank of gas. That tank of gas might last you a couple weeks if you're lucky. If your generic Chinese lamp last you a season you should consider this as getting your monies worth. The rule is; The more you invest in your purchase the more you can ( or should ) expect to get out of it.

In the mean time, if the fins only partly function and the two emitters only put out 1000 lumen ( vs. the claimed 1800 lumen ) and the battery only last you a year....Smile, 1000 lumen is a hell of a good output to ride with. If it cost you $40 or less and still works after a year you made out like a bandit.

Choosing the right Chinese lamp for bike use is like choosing the cheapest pi**-water beer to get a drunk on with. Some are a little better than others but all will get you drunk. As we all know, " Drinking something that taste better is always preferable. This equates to having a lamp that works better but is still inexpensive.


----------



## whokilledJR (Sep 24, 2012)

androgen said:


> *how hot does this light get anyway ? if it gets so hot you can barely touch it while riding at 10+ mph then it needs those fins. if not - it doesn't.*
> 
> i don't think i buy the idea that properly shaped fins would be that difficult to manufacture however. the more logical explanation is that the people who put the fins there simply didn't care about what they were doing, and frankly, if i was working for 10 cents an hour i wouldn't care either.
> 
> ...


XMLs produce a lot of heat and performance drops significantly without some form of cooling. How hot a bike light is to touch is irrelevant as it depends on the internal thermal pathway and how much aluminium mass the heat has to pass through.
Considering bike lights are relatively small and are now coming with multi-emitters, any form of thermal cooling will have an impact on performance and heatfins make a difference, especially with air flow. For best effect they need to be placed as close to the emitter as possible with a good direct thermal pathway, providing the light has been well designed heatfins make a difference.

If you haven't already you might want to read up on a forum such as budgetlightforum, plenty of testing done on that site.


----------



## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

whokilledJR said:


> XMLs produce a lot of heat and performance drops significantly without some form of cooling. How hot a bike light is to touch is irrelevant as it depends on the internal thermal pathway and how much aluminium mass the heat has to pass through.
> Considering bike lights are relatively small and are now coming with multi-emitters, any form of thermal cooling will have an impact on performance and heatfins make a difference, especially with air flow. For best effect they need to be placed as close to the emitter as possible with a good direct thermal pathway, providing the light has been well designed heatfins make a difference.
> 
> If you haven't already you might want to read up on a forum such as budgetlightforum, plenty of testing done on that site.


as i said heatsink fins are like spoilers on a car. sometimes they're functional:










sometimes they are aesthetic:










and sometimes they are pointless and ridiculous:










you don't need to tell me what heatsink fins or spoilers are for. i have a degree in electrical engineering. i am telling you to know the difference between the 3 types. this way next time somebody tries to sell you a 20 year old rusty diesel pickup truck with five spoilers on the roof you won't think that it's a formula 1 ...


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

steelhmr said:


> There is a new 2x XM-L2-U2 from Kaidomain. Light head only. Looks very nice: http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S022462


 Thats a completely different light, don't mix it up with MJ880 clones.
Original is called JEXREE Owl:
HIGH POWER LED PORTABLE-LIGHT SERIES
It has nice SMD-leds glowrings around the main led's reflectors which serve as parking/daytime lights and also look very cool 
It also uses XM-L2 leds, has very high brightness maximum mode and good thermal transfer to outer case.

There is also a JEXREE Bat with 3 xml leds:
10PCS/LOT JEXREE High Power CREE 3x L2 LED 4000Lumen High Power Headlight Bike Bicycle Light +battery and charger-in Headlamps from Lights & Lighting on Aliexpress.com


----------



## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

Kir said:


> Thats a completely different light, don't mix it up with MJ880 clones.
> Original is called JEXREE Owl:
> HIGH POWER LED PORTABLE-LIGHT SERIES
> It has nice SMD-leds glowrings around the main led's reflectors which serve as parking/daytime lights and also look very cool
> It also uses XM-L2 leds, has very high brightness maximum mode and good thermal transfer to outer case.


parking / daytime lights ? say what ?

are they for real ?

these people ...

Light & Motion put side marker lights on some of their low-end headlights as well as on their tail lights, but what could possibly be the point of having a marker light facing FORWARD when there is already a light there ?

these people ...

i'm sure when they design their products they're sure rich Americans will buy them for their 6 year olds to play with. i don't think the Chinese have any idea that fully grown adults play with these toys themselves !

ugh ... no words LOL


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Because 1) they don't blind people in front of you 2) they can be seen from sides 3) they can be set up to blinking mode + main lights on low, that increases your visibility.
Don't complain about these led rings, imo thats a great idea.


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

It is getting little out of topic, the topic was the MJ880 clone, not the other lights, heatsink fins and sportscars


----------



## androgen (Apr 28, 2005)

MK96 said:


> It is getting little out of topic, the topic was the MJ880 clone, not the other lights, heatsink fins and sportscars


OK OK 

i'll try to stop


----------



## whokilledJR (Sep 24, 2012)

androgen said:


> you don't need to tell me what heatsink fins or spoilers are for. i have a degree in electrical engineering. i am telling you to know the difference between the 3 types. this way next time somebody tries to sell you a 20 year old rusty diesel pickup truck with five spoilers on the roof you won't think that it's a formula 1 ...


Fair enough, although the part of your text I was replying to left a different impression.


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Vancbiker said:


> So the country of origin has some effect on how fins add area or not????


This has been established previous on MTBR.
Thin Finnish fins win.


----------



## tish! (Sep 15, 2013)

scvkurt03 said:


> Ordered a clone and the Action LED lens for the 880 with high hopes that it will fit and give me a bright flood for my bars. I don't suppose anyone's already attempted this combo?


Hi there! I bought the same lamp. Now I would like to know: Did it work with the reflector? If yes, what was the result?

I really hope so very much!


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

tish! said:


> Hi there! I bought the same lamp. Now I would like to know: Did it work with the reflector? If yes, what was the result?
> 
> I really hope so very much!


I've yet to receive the light. I'll post here when I get it...


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

These flood type lenses might work with other ( two reflector ) lamps as well. I think you'll like the output just as it is but if you feel you need more flood likely you will only need to replace one lens. If you use two it will likely kill the throw particularly when in the lower output levels.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Good news, I got the light today! Bad news, the lenses look way too small. Worse news...well:


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Is that the way it came, or did it just snap off? I thought this was a quality light.


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Quality? From chinese light? :lol:
Open it up and resolder wires to driver's pcb, its easy:
https://i.imgur.com/00TSyMuh.jpg


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

scvkurt03 said:


> Good news, I got the light today! Bad news, the lenses look way too small. Worse news...well:
> View attachment 832681


Awe man, bummer. That's some solar storm-level nonsense there


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

That's how it came. It came in a bag in a box with the rest of the stuff. The bag has a hole in it, and the box is scuffed up. Everything else seems fine, though. I've wired it back together. We'll see how long it holds up.


----------



## tish! (Sep 15, 2013)

scvkurt03 said:


> Good news, I got the light today! Bad news, the lenses look way too small. Worse news...well:
> View attachment 832681


Thx for the quick feedback! Damn, really hope you can fix the light. I 'm looking forward to my "modular"...


----------



## Snakes (Aug 22, 2007)

I am also thinking of ordering another light to compare it with Solarstorm X2. Does anyone have light mentioned in this topic and X2 and can compare them?

Also this one looks interesting:
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S022462
Anyone tried it yet?

I would like to try XML2 light, but there is not too many to chose from (suitable for helmet use). Is difference between xml u2 and xml2 noticable?


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Snakes said:


> I am also thinking of ordering another light to compare it with Solarstorm X2. Does anyone have light mentioned in this topic and X2 and can compare them?


I have both, but I've yet to go on a ride with them. The 880 clone has a smoother progression from its hot spot to the edges, but that's expected from an OP reflector. The smooth reflectors on the SS X2 are a weak point. There are hitches and gaps in the beam pattern.

At 100% they're really pretty comparable in brightness - plenty bright for any trail riding I'll be doing. There's a big gap between mid and high with the SS X2 and a big gap between low and mid with the 880 clone. I do like the UI of the 880 clone much more. One switch for power, one to toggle between modes. The X2 goes dark after high, with its one button.

I'll write up some more after I go for my first ride, though that probably won't be until next week. Damn that whole 'having to earn my paycheck' thing!


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

scvkurt03 said:


> That's how it came. It came in a bag in a box with the rest of the stuff. The bag has a hole in it, and the box is scuffed up. Everything else seems fine, though. I've wired it back together. We'll see how long it holds up.


Ridiculous!

How's the beam shape on this thing?

I'm looking forward to your review.


----------



## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Does anyone have a photo of the clone next to a real MJ-880?
I just saw my first MJ-880 in person last week and was impressed by how small it was. 
But the clone isn't the exact same, so I'm curious how it compares in overall size.


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

fightnut said:


> Does anyone have a photo of the clone next to a real MJ-880?
> I just saw my first MJ-880 in person last week and was impressed by how small it was.
> But the clone isn't the exact same, so I'm curious how it compares in overall size.


I can take measurents when I get home, but the unit is definitely small. I can't imagine it being much smaller for a 2x unit. Additionally, I believe the lighthead unit itself weighs 135 grams.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

I've had a couple of night rides on my SSX2 and this 880 clone, now, and I have to say that I'm pretty happy with the combination. 

The 880 clone has a smooth beam patten with a gradual transition from spot to flood. Perfect for running on the bars. Low mode was great for climbing, and high was super bright, giving me no pause for speed on a couple of descents I'm fairly familiar with, though have only ridden a few times at night. The UI is great - one button for on/off, and another for low/mid/high (hold for strobe). Really, really like it, except for it being delivered with a severed cord. On my latest (longer) ride, I went for a two hour ride at dusk, ran it on low for an hour, and high for a half hour and never had it change from green. 

The SSX2 was good, but not great. Their low and high intensities were pretty similar, but the mid on the 880 clone was much, much brighter than the SSX2. Often, I ran the X2 on mid while I had the 880 clone on low. Side by side, the X2 beam was brighter, but since the X2 was on my helmet, I had to have it brighter for it to not be overpowered by my bar light. On full bright, the X2 was great in the short to mid range, but diffused too much beyond 20 feet or so. 

The other issue I had with the SSX2 is the beam pattern. My smooth reflector has a little lip in the middle (a defect), which causes a slightly darker spot in the middle of the hot spot. I'll bet it'd be just fine if it didn't have that problem.

In short, this is a pretty good setup for the kind of riding I'll be doing. I might be on the lookout for a helmet mount with better throw, though.


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Interesting. I'm planning on using the 2x on my helmet with a 3x on my bars. On my short rides so far with both mounted on the bar (3x aimed downward, 2x aimed straight out), I was very pleased with the throw of the 2x. Add to that, since a helmet light has to be versatile to see both long distance and near distance (such as navigating through turns), this light seems ideal. I guess I won't know exactly how ideal it is though until I actually mount it to the helmet.


----------



## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

steelhmr said:


> Interesting. I'm planning on using the 2x on my helmet with a 3x on my bars. On my short rides so far with both mounted on the bar (3x aimed downward, 2x aimed straight out), I was very pleased with the throw of the 2x. Add to that, since a helmet light has to be versatile to see both long distance and near distance (such as navigating through turns), this light seems ideal. I guess I won't know exactly how ideal it is though until I actually mount it to the helmet.


The other issue I had with the SSX2 is the beam pattern. My smooth reflector has a little lip in the middle (a defect), which causes a slightly darker spot in the middle of the hot spot. I'll bet it'd be just fine if it didn't have that problem.


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

scvkurt03 said:


> The other issue I had with the SSX2 is the beam pattern. My smooth reflector has a little lip in the middle (a defect), which causes a slightly darker spot in the middle of the hot spot. I'll bet it'd be just fine if it didn't have that problem.


You should add this to your previous post. Also, for reference, when I use '2x' here I am referring to the K/D 880 clone. I've never used a SSX2, but I am very much interested in how the 2x compares to the SSX2 and other similar lights. I just didn't want to confuse other people who might be reading this, or myself


----------



## 0zeo (Mar 28, 2011)

scvkurt03 said:


> The other issue I had with the SSX2 is the beam pattern. My smooth reflector has a little lip in the middle (a defect), which causes a slightly darker spot in the middle of the hot spot. I'll bet it'd be just fine if it didn't have that problem.


I just order one on KD too. Coud you give me please the diameter of the lense from the Kaidomain Xml U2 light ?

On Actions led the wide angle lens is out of stock. I want buy one on another site.

Thanks

Jeremy


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

there is now the head-only version at KD: http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S022641


----------



## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

MK96 said:


> there is now the head-only version at KD: http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S022641


Sweet!


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Let's make a small refresh of this thread. My light just came yesterday from KD, seems to have the same driver, LEDs on white circles, XM-Ls



0zeo said:


> I just order one on KD too. Coud you give me please the diameter of the lense from the Kaidomain Xml U2 light ?


Perhaps responding too late. The lens is 20 mm, the reflector seems to be 20 x 14 mm, but Kir measured 21 x 14 mm



kragu said:


> Ordered a clone and the Action LED lens for the 880 with high hopes that it will fit and give me a bright flood for my bars. I don't suppose anyone's already attempted this combo?


Kragu, so did you try this lens? Maybe I will replace the lens too for some TIR lens like this or this



Kir said:


> Since nobody posted any reviews yet...
> Some technical details:
> 2 leds in series, current on leds in 3 modes - 0.58A-1.53A-2.36A


Kir, what voltage did you use to measure these numbers?


----------



## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Its a current on leds, its regulated to stay the same regardless of the input/battery voltage.


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Thanks, didn't read that properly it is on leds.


----------



## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

If someone is searching for good low price Panasonic 3400mAh litium cells to replace the crappy ones which normally comes with most of the chinese lights just check:

panasonic NCR18650B with 3400mAh are just a few bucks less than at fasttech - Klick for link! (coupon bgf113)

get the protected ones here (coupon bgf120)

I just hit the button


----------



## oldfox (Nov 20, 2008)

Hi!

This is my first post but I've been following this part of the forum for quite a while.

Sorry if this isn't quite the right palce to post this, but here it goes:

I've been using a single XML light (magicshine 808 clone) on the bars for about a year and i'm looking to add another light to my set up.

I'm thinking on moving the single XML to my helmet and getting a dual XML for my bars.

I've read this entire thread plus the one on the solarstorm X2 and the one on the gemini duo clones (yes i'm looking for a cheap light), and I'm not shure wich is the best option for a bar light, so help is much apreciated!

I'm leaning towards the mj 880 clone. The beam seems to be not as focused as on the X2, bulding quality and heat dissipation seems to be better than average and I specialy like the UI (no need to go trough flashing and off while changing modes).

Oh, and I like the possibility of replacing the cells in the batery holder with better ones when they die.

Seems this clone doesn't raise the same interest as the X2 or the gemini clones (judging from the number posts in this tread) but i does look like a better option in my opinion, I'm i wrong?

I also like the beam patern of the gemini clone, but the fact that I have to cycle trough off while changing modes, puts me off.

I realise there are different versions of the mj-880s with diferent power outputs.
Like this one with 1.8A circuitry and 580 lm (could that be right?)

LetterFire LF-20 2 x Cree XM-L T6 580lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Headlamp - Black (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

I'm thinking about this one, as it comes (supposedly) with XM-L2 emiters:

http://www.kaidomain.com/product/Details.S021521

Is Kaidomain a reliable seller?

With the current li-ion batteries/air mail situation, i'm i likely to get it delivered with no problems?

Also, i understand Kir got his clone from this seller and he measured decent current draw (I know that doesn't mean much and this is light roulete)

Thank's in advance


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

1. Yes, KD seems to be quite reliable I got the same light as Kir after a long time.
2. No, MJ-880 clone is an XM-L U2 - confusing description.
3. I have 2 SS X2 from lightmalls and 2 880 clones from KD. Both draw nearly the same from battery. SS X2 is a good helmet light and the 880 clone with TIR optics is a good bar light. I recently ordered 15 degree TIR lenses to replace one lense in each of the 880 clone and I might buy another two wider lenses to give outer leds wider beam. The battery pack from KD arrives by surface/ground post. THe light and stuff you get by airmail.


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

I am considering this headunit only http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S022641
I am also confused about XML2 description. It clearly says KD 2 x Cree XM-L2 U2
So if emitters are XML 2*U2 then I expect 2 light units as it says 2xCree bla bla bla. I see the pictures there are old XMLs but still...
Whats up with that?


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

bhocewar said:


> I am considering this headunit only http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S022641
> I am also confused about XML2 description. It clearly says KD 2 x Cree XM-L2 U2
> So if emitters are XML 2*U2 then I expect 2 light units as it says 2xCree bla bla bla. I see the pictures there are old XMLs but still...
> Whats up with that?


The one I bought a few months ago was XML U2, but it was stated as such in the description. It didn't say XM-L2 at the time. I would say that they must have recently upgraded the LED to XM-L2.

The description of XM-L2 U2 is written the same as for the 3x unit they sell. I sent them an email when I ordered my 3x XM-L2 U2 light and they confirmed over email that it was an XM-L2. It arrived and was indeed an XM-L2.


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Honestly I don't know, maybe they changed emitters for XM-L2 and didn't updated the pictures. But I have 2 x 880 clones and both are XM-L U2.


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Well, I also sent them an email about this for sku.S022641. Lets wait for what they say.


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

This is the answer...


Kaidomain said:


> This bike light use XML2 LED, We will update the pictures soon.


----------



## PsyCro (Jun 8, 2007)

Cool, looks like new beamshots and comparison between old and new soon 

Mine's also on the way, and hopefully XM-L2 U2 !!


----------



## oldfox (Nov 20, 2008)

Thanks for the replies!

I think I willl take a shot at this one.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

You are going to find that most of the Chinese light vendors are using the same stock photos....so the green LED may--or may not..be what's inside what you're getting.


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

K/D updated photos to the new XML2 880clone headlight.
Moving on...did anyone try to mod this light? Increasing current by replacing SMD resistor? Which resistor would be best to use? There is a lot of aluminum to heatsink for overdrive. You could machine new inserts (copper maybe) and adjust the dimensions to install plastic lenses and ditch the reflectors. (15° + 25° combo). Which lens are the best to fit?
I have plan to do all that, but it would be nice to have some infos before I get my ordered lamp in my hands.
Thanks


----------



## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Despite owning this light for several months (XML U2 version), today was the first time I did a real night ride and one with the 2x mounted to my helmet. I was very pleased with the performance. It was a little bit of an adjustment, since, when paired with my 3x unit on the bars, I had to aim the 2x higher than I did when I used two Lumina 650's. It greatly increased the range of my helmet light and it more or less blends in with the light from the 3x to give me a continuous and expanded visual field. Consequently, I feel that I was able to ride a little faster than last year's night rides. I ended up running it on HIGH for almost the entirety of the ride. When I put both it and my 3x unit on medium, the 2x unit just seemed a little weak. The battery power is there for me to ride on HIGH for 2 hrs and my ride was 1:30 so it's really no problem to leave it on HIGH the whole time. Very pleased with the performance, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I am envious of those newer XM-L2-U2 versions


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

I just ordered two of the xm-l2 lightheads from KD. Along with some different optics from fasttech. Hopefully the optics fit. I plan to run both in the bars to create a nice flood of light. 

This will replace my current setup of a 4x XML and a v1 gloworm X2. 

I am hoping for a better beam pattern than the 4x provides.


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Same here ;-) Also bought 15 degree optics from fastech. We'll see how that magic performs. If they fit, I'll buy also wider angle.


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

MK96 said:


> Same here ;-) Also bought 15 degree optics from fastech. We'll see how that magic performs. If they fit, I'll buy also wider angle.


I picked up the 15 and 30. At 86 cents each. What the heck, why not.


----------



## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Can someone verify whether this has a standard Magicshine-type connector? The XM-L2 head-only is less than 30 bones on KD.

http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S022641


----------



## zeb (May 21, 2006)

Yes KD clone has MS type connector, however the cable is only 100mm long. You might need extension cable just to place your battery pack where ever you want to.


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Mj880clone does not have exact MS connector, but the headunit fits MS batteries (loose fit and not waterproof), however clone battery doesnt fit classic Magicshine light unit. The problem is the outside diameter that is smaller at 880 clone. Note that original MJ880 has different connector than other MS (it is not round)


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Mine 2 880 clones are 5.5/2.1 mm, but I don't have MS pack and its dimensions.



TiGeo said:


> Can someone verify whether this has a standard Magicshine-type connector? The XM-L2 head-only is less than 30 bones on KD.
> 
> http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S022641


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

The problem is with plastic housing of the connector.


----------



## piccirilli (Feb 5, 2007)

I want to mount a 880 clone to my helmet. Looks like it comes standard with bar mount. Is there a helmet adapter available to fit this head? I could mount it 'as is' but it would not have a way to swivel for beam angle.


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Finaly...I got a new version KD XML2 880 clone. Head unit only.
https://www.kaidomain.com/Product/Details.S022641
Got some good and some bad news.

Let me start with good ones.
-it has indeed XML2 leds
-it has standard Magicshine connector (picture on KD site shows connector from old XML series)
-you get two mounting silicone o-rings and both are small size, so you get a good tension on a handlebar.
-very fast delivery. Less than 3 weeks.










and the bad news
-very poorly packed. Only bubble wrap and standard chinese envelope. But it survived the journey. 
-very poor heat transfer design (SSX2 alike). It has slightly different design compare to first version with XMLs.
















Does not have leds on stars and inserts but leds are on a custom one piece backplate that fits very loosely. 
You can see heat transfer contact area on a picture above. It is only that middle area with some thermal paste on it and some
random contact points at the edges. The main middle wall is thicker compare to old one and if there werent those
huge holes drilled out, but just two small ones for cables, it would have sufficient heat transfer. But now it needs
overhaull!!!! I will make some solid alu inserts to pressfit in those holes and make a bigger contact.
I think that this light is not very good as it is...it is not plug&play, but if you upgrade it, it could be very good.
Driver looks the same.

Tomorrow I will be able to compare brightness between this one and the first XML version.


----------



## lesoudeur (Nov 3, 2005)

*MJ880 clone*

I bought one in black from Kaidomain (XML U2 version with slim type connection). For the money it's good. Beam pattern is large bright spot and then a large spread. Very good for commuting. Have not taken it apart yet. I like the stealth look


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

It is hard to believe that the same SS X2 thing happend to this 880 clone. I can see some thermal paste in the middle of the MCPCB. So both "reputable" kaidomain and fasttech are selling some weird clones of clones


----------



## oldfox (Nov 20, 2008)

I have one heading my way. I'm a bit disapointed that the internals don't have the same design and heat transfer capabilities as the model Kir described.

I also have the 15 and 30 degree lenses coming from fasttech, do you have any idea if they will fit this slightly diferrent design?

(lenses are 20mm x 13mm)


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

bhocewar bought light head only, Kir and I, we both bought the full set and have the same design and just XM-L not XM-L2. My 15deg. lenses stuck somewhere due to lifepo cells in the package so I don't know if they fit, but there is still alternative to buy from DX.


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

No lens would fit as it is. You need to machine new inserts to elevate leds to correct position. That way you upgrade heat transfer too. I also hope that lens will hold OK. Front panel has 19mm holes, lens OD is 20mm, that gives just half mm at the edges to hold on a rubber gasket. You should avoid those 21mm lenses with plastic shell because it would not be waterproof (or just throw away that shell).

Yesterday I compared 880 xml clone and new XML2 version, and I didnt notice any difference in brightness. Did not find spare time to measure the current draw. 

Here is a funny fact:
880 clone reflector fits perfectly in SSX2. IF you want to have smoother transition from spot to flood...I will soon have extra OP 880 clone reflectors available.


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

How deep is actually the reflector? I think I measured about 14 mm.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

bhocewar said:


> Finaly...I got a new version KD XML2 880 clone. Head unit only.
> 
> ...Does not have leds on stars and inserts but leds are on a custom one piece backplate that fits very loosely.
> You can see heat transfer contact area on a picture above. It is only that middle area with some thermal paste on it and some
> ...


All things considered, the 880 clone still looks to have more thermal contact area ( on the emitter board ) than the SSX2 clones not to mention it has a larger head for added heat dissipation area. Plus, the 880 clone looks ( as you stated ) like you could add extra pieces into the slots but likely you might have to go to a machine shop to get them made. Unless you can make the inserts yourself I'm not sure it would be worth spending the extra money. ( of course that would depend on what they charge you for something like this. )


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I thought that a mix of some copper shavings and thermal paste would might be worth to try, at least you don't need to pay for a precise manufacturing of those pieces. But that is just my suggestion ...


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Dont be cheap. Those inserts will cost a few bucks...and will improve heat transfer by at least 500%. I will overhaull my light to the point, it will match the original MJ880.


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

bhocewar said:


> Dont be cheap. Those inserts will cost a few bucks...


To be fair the light head is only $29. So how much more of an investment are we looking at here? If it dies you can just grab another cheapo light head. Also it looks like the heatsinking is not as good but how much of an issue Is it really? Is there a good way to measure that?

I did see some people on the blf forums make a heat sink from thick copper wire and solder. Then put it in with a bunch of thermal paste. That may be a budget option


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

About $15 in material/not including labour/including a few other tricks.
Thermal managment is the most important thing in light design and its performance.


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

bhocewar said:


> Finaly...I got a new version KD XML2 880 clone. Head unit only.
> https://www.kaidomain.com/Product/Details.S022641
> Got some good and some bad news.
> 
> ...


Well my two light heads showed up. Same issue. What size inserts are you making? It would save me from trying to shove some calipers in there!

Thanks!


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

I am making inserts to mod it with TIR optic lenses, so it is a different size. You need just to fill those holes... 18mm dia and cca 4mm thickness.


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

bhocewar said:


> I am making inserts to mod it with TIR optic lenses, so it is a different size. You need just to fill those holes... 18mm dia and cca 4mm thickness.


Are you making them thicker? Post up some pics of your work when u get there!


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Eventually you can make them thicker to heatsink the driver also.
@bhocewar what tir lenses are you going to use?


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

MK96 said:


> Eventually you can make them thicker to heatsink the driver also.
> @bhocewar what tir lenses are you going to use?


...or you heat it up...
I will use regular 20mm TIR optics (21mm with plastic housing) 10°+25° maybe 2x25° for handlebar

more... when it`s done.


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

It depends on whether the driver needs cooling or not.

I was thinking about 15° and 30° for a handlebar. But now I am using 7 XM-L as a bar light and 880 clone will move to a helmet light so I probably won't change anything.


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

My fasttech optics showed up today. Loose fit. Needs to be raised a mm or 2. I fit them anyway with 15/30 combo just to see how it looks. Beam pattern loses the hot spot. Def more flood. But for now I'll run stock until i feel like messing with it. Comparing against my friends yinding light. That thing is 1/2 the size and same amount of light. With a better beam pattern.


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Here is an upgraded 880 clone. 10°+25° optics...I will take some before/after beam shots...

























waterproof test


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

bhocewar said:


> Here is an upgraded 880 clone. 10°+25° optics...I will take some before/after beam shots...


Nice work! Inspired me to make a piece for mine so i can use my optics. 15° and 30°.

Much better beam pattern. I am currently running both of my light heads on the bars. I'll do a ride with the modified optics and the stock reflectors to see how I like the difference.


----------



## bjorsa (Aug 2, 2013)

I have the Kaidomain version. Never opened it or addressed the heat dissipation problem - is that something I should do or it'll die on me?

With regards to the beam pattern, I simply cut out a cheap plastic lens (intended to mod some common U2 lamp of larger size) and siliconed it on to one half, like this:










I tried spreading the light from both LEDs but for me this strikes a good balance. Easy, cheap and ugly. But this lamp would still blind people and oncoming traffic so I also added a cap, cut out from a schampoo bottle.

Unfortunately, the cable is complete junk and as you can see the cover is broken already (same goes for the battery pack cable on the other end):










In your minds, what's the easiest way to repair that? Heat shrink tubing would require disassembly - maybe one could just as well switch it out to a new cable all together? I dunno. Just put something glueish on it maybe and see if it sticks?

Anyways, the performance is good. It hangs upside down like this:


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

bjorsa said:


> ...Anyways, the performance is good. It hangs upside down like this:


...I think you have redefined the term, butt-ugly..

That has to be the largest lamp hood I have ever seen. With the lamp being mounted as low as it is IMO I would think you could get by with just about a quarter of that. Not to mention that having the entire top of the lamp covered in plastic is going hamper the lamps ability to dissipate heat.

Interesting mounting solution. I like it but my guess is that it would have to vibrate/sway quite a bit being so elongated as it is.


----------



## bjorsa (Aug 2, 2013)

Well I tried with a smaller hood first and it didn't provide a sharp enough cut-off for the beam. I want the brightest centre directed as far ahead as possible without deer-ing oncomers to the headlight. And in fact, the lower the lamp hangs, the more precise you have to be. 

The lamp never even feels luke warm when I touch it so I stopped worrying about the hampered dissipation. Maybe come summer I have to cut the cover narrower; it's strenghtened with construction glue anyways.

The low mounting serves a purpose: otherwise my handlebar bag would block the light. Also, (especially since I sometimes use a head-lamp) the lower position makes for good road perception. The Topeak BarXtender does its job and I haven't noticed any vibrations or swaying at all. As a bonus I can strap the lamp on in two seconds because I never have to take the rubber mount off, instead just twitching it over the end of the bar.

The battery pack normally goes in the bag. I hate fiddling with that flimsy mounting strap - and speaking of ugly I use a random piece of foam in between the battery and the frame when riding without the bag. With the wire all over the place, straps, pices of foam, a schampoo bottle cap and some random rubber band here and there it has white trash written all over it. Butt ugly would sum it up.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

bjorsa said:


> Well I tried with a smaller hood first and it didn't provide a sharp enough cut-off for the beam. I want the brightest centre directed as far ahead as possible without deer-ing oncomers to the headlight. And in fact, the lower the lamp hangs, the more precise you have to be.
> 
> The lamp never even feels luke warm when I touch it so I stopped worrying about the hampered dissipation. Maybe come summer I have to cut the cover narrower; it's strenghtened with construction glue anyways.
> 
> ...


Well it works for you and that is the important thing. You must have a heck of a time trying to reach the mode buttons when riding though.

Have you ever considered a small frame bag? I use a small bag on my road set-up that fits nicely between the top/head and down tube. The advantage of this kind of arrangement is that it helps free up space around the bars ( vs. a handlebar bag ) and I don't need to use a bag under the seat. It's small enough that is doesn't interfere with the water bottle too. I figure with the lamp mounted on the bars you could more easily *adjust the lamp for on-coming traffic. ( * either by tilting the lamp down or changing modes )

Anyway, if you are really concerned about cut-off for the lamp you might consider a dynamo light head. Most of the good ones are designed with cut-off in mind. Matter of fact I've been thinking of going dynamo myself for my on the road set-up but just don't have the money needed to get what I want. I don't worry too much about it though as I have good battery powered lights.


----------



## dobbs (Jan 12, 2004)

I have two of the XM-L2 U2 version on my handlebars now and I couldn't be happier. Just a bump to make sure everyone knows how great these lights are.


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

After some time using this light with a couple of other blokes around I found out that the R100 resistor likes to blow up increasing its resistance from 0.1Ohm to xyzOhms. The light seems good overall, buttons all green but it won't power on - actually it does, but the amount of current is very low rendering the leds powered off. Changing the resistor and maybe a increasing its heat dissipation makes the light work fine again. That happens more frequently on the "solarstromified" versions of the 880 clone.


----------



## B.A.R.K. (Oct 17, 2007)

bhocewar said:


> Here is an upgraded 880 clone. 10°+25° optics...I will take some before/after beam shots...


I am new to LEDs, so can you explain the 10 and 25 degree optics? Is the 10 degree the original "spot", and the 25 degree is a swapped in "flood"? If so where did you get the flood?


----------



## ljracer (Nov 6, 2009)

MK96 said:


> After some time using this light with a couple of other blokes around I found out that the R100 resistor likes to blow up increasing its resistance from 0.1Ohm to xyzOhms. The light seems good overall, buttons all green but it won't power on - actually it does, but the amount of current is very low rendering the leds powered off. Changing the resistor and maybe a increasing its heat dissipation makes the light work fine again. That happens more frequently on the "solarstromified" versions of the 880 clone.
> 
> View attachment 931835


Thanks for the tip! Do you have a source you like to get new resistors from?


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

My source is local shop with electronic stuff, or you can go with Fasttech, DX, ...

Here is the guide which SMD package will fit: Resistor Sizes and Packages » Resistor Guide

The lager the resistor the more heat it can dissipate.


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

B.A.R.K. said:


> I am new to LEDs, so can you explain the 10 and 25 degree optics? Is the 10 degree the original "spot", and the 25 degree is a swapped in "flood"? If so where did you get the flood?


Both TIR optics are added for an upgrade. Original light has OP reflectors


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Can someone tell me if the 880 clone has more throw than the SSX2? Also how does it compare to the SSX2 over all?


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

The reflectors have similar dimensions, 880 is OP whereas X2 is smooth. 880 should push more current to the leds. I think the throw difference is negligible. Here is my photobucket album with some lights beamshots including 880 clone and X2. The quiestion is what driver X2 uses, 880 clone uses just one type.

Budget Lights Comparo 2014 Photos by kuzmami | Photobucket


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> It is not unusual type of head: such drivers are typically included in most "all-in-one" toolbox / bit sets...


The triangular head (that fits the new Neutral White KD880 clone) might be more common outside the USA. It was not included in any of the multi-tools I've purchased previously and haven't seen it at my local big box store recently either. But then, NYC is no longer world-renowned for hardware. Could anyone here please provide a link or other reference so I can at least narrow down my search? Afraid if I just use the end of my triangular file it will abraid the finish of the screwhead.

Also, if I find I don't have to (or can't) mod the innards with thermal slugs, what options exist to otherwise compensate for the shortfall with replacement optics?

Thanks!


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

andychrist said:


> The triangular head (that fits the new Neutral White KD880 clone) might be more common outside the USA. It was not included in any of the multi-tools I saw at my local big box store. But then, NYC is no longer world-renowned for hardware. Could anyone here please provide a link or other reference so I can at least narrow down my search? Afraid if I just use the end of my triangular file it will abraid the finish of the screwhead.


You're welcome:
triangular screwdriver | eBay

Please note, that tri-wing and trigram bits/drivers are sometimes called "triangular" too - but are completely different type.

One more:
Silverhill Tools ATKTR4 Triangle Head Screwdriver Setwith Carry Pouch - Hand Tool Sets - Amazon.com


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> You're welcome:
> triangular screwdriver | eBay
> 
> Please note, that tri-wing and trigram bits/drivers are sometimes called "triangular" too - but are completely different type.


Thanks Archie. From Wikipedia:

Sizes include TA14, TA18, TA20, TA23, and TA27.

By any chance do you know which size the 880 clone uses? If I could find the right one locally it would save the wait from China/Hong Kong/Australia or the expense of buying the entire set from Amazon.


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Glad to be of assistance, Andy!

Unfortunately, I don't know exact size, but you may use *ledoman*'s trick or similar method probably.

Offtopic: are you sure it's impossible to find such tools locally?


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> Glad to be of assistance, Andy!
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't know exact size, but you may use *ledoman*'s trick or similar method probably.
> 
> Offtopic: are you sure it's impossible to find such tools locally?


Well like I said, my triangle file is very rough on the end, afraid it would damage the screw insets. Local hardware stores don't carry a full set of triangle drivers, they sometimes include a single one inside a set of other drivers and hex wrenches but there'd only be a one-in-five chance it would be the size I need. Amazon does offer the full set, am currently trying to fill my cart with enough other items to qualify for free shipping. Any recommendations for soldering kit and precision tips?  Gotta go check out the DIY forum!

Still don't know about replacing the reflectors with the optics mentioned here, guesss if I get the light head apart I'll simply have to measure. Doesn't even matter to me so much how wide or narrow an angle; I just don't care for the current set up, hot spot is too distinct. Wonder why the clones all have OP reflectors rather than the optics of the original, could it have saved the manufactures on material or labor?


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I can probably find you a nice budget soldering station on Amazon. Give me a minute and watch for a PM.

-Garry


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> I can probably find you a nice budget soldering station on Amazon. Give me a minute and watch for a PM.
> 
> -Garry


Thanks Garry! Yeah I saw some, problem is the replacement precision tips are not sold in multiples, only variety packs seem to be available.


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

You can undone those screws with "minus" screwdriver with 3+mm wide tip


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Well as long as I had to wait for the optics from FastTech to arrive, ordered the complete set of triangular head drivers that -Archie- found for me on Amazon. Worked great, and a good thing too because I had to take that little sucker apart a good many times trying to figure out the easiest way to mod it without a workshop. Ultimately fashioned my own ~1mm thick plate to backup the emitter board using tinned sheet steel cut from the lid of a can of sweetened condensed milk and wrapped in aluminum tape, trimmed to size. Pressed into place, stuffed same NW XM-L2 3C emitter board with its two wires back inside. Dropped in the new 15º optics, retaining original flat glass lenses to both help fill gap and keep the narrower new units from falling through the front plate. Everything fits nice and snug, no rattling. Didn't break anything this time, finished it all without having to resolder the leads either. New setup seems to be working pretty well, shell heats up real fast - woohoo.

Beam is still very tight, but without all the horrible ringing/color separation the previous reflectors had been putting out (will post some shots once it's dark enough.) Modded lamp will live on the bars as my "Driving Light." When the elliptical lenses on order from LEDDNA come in, will insert those into some other lamp for use as a low beam.

Thanks guys for all the previous examples. Now let's just see how long this one lasts.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Looking at your photo I would of thought the original reflectors would of been OP or faceted. I believe the original 880's used faceted reflectors which would of provided a more smoother beam pattern.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Yeah Cat, the KD MJ-880 clone did come with OP reflectors, don't think they are the same or even similar to what MagicShine uses though, from what little I could glean from the pics on their site. KD's blur the distinction between spot and spill but somehow separate out the neutral white tint into alternating rings of sickly yellow and blue. Think that might have been what tigris99 was experiencing with his SS X3 too before he modded it with optics from LEDDNA, had said the NW XM-L2 emitters were putting out too much yellow before but that now they all look fine.

I've still got an unaltered NW KD here I can compare beams shots to once it's dark enough. Not sure how well my iPad can pick out the rings though, auto WB kinda unpredictable.

Incidentally, here's a slightly better shot of how the lenses from FT fit over the emitters, a lot different from the way TIR optics look.


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

FYI, Original Magicshine MJ-880 uses 15deg TIR optics of same dimensions as LED-DNA optics. They are easily exchangable. It has been 10 days since I've put one 25deg instead of stock one. The light was used for caving so bit wider beam was desired.

@andy, KD 880 is quite good regarding heating issues. I've used Noctigons and additional cilindrical inserts along with LED-DNA optics. Heat dissipation is so good I could raise the current for about 30% with no problems. With those mods it can easily compete with original MJ-880.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Yes ledoman, this clone certainly has great potential. Think KD might even still be selling the original model with the heftier internals, if they've left that XM-L T6 model unchanged (the package price is still higher than the XM-L2, maybe for a reason?) Anyway I was pleasantly surprised to find that even my cheapy insert plate mod, which I performed really just to compensate for the shorter optics, has actually improved thermal dissipation as well: the lamp shell becomes too hot to hold almost a full minute before my unaltered Silver model does.

iPad doesn't pick up exactly what the eye detects, but here are before and after shots of KD 880 clone with original reflectors top and modded with FastTech 15º lenses below.















For under $2.00 in material, am satisfied with the results. And now I've crammed in the extra back plate, will be a cinch in the future just to drop in any other lenses might strike my fancy.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hey Andy you know u can get optics from led supply and mouser here in the states for about the same price???

Just put these top of my next head to order (yinding on the way atm).

Now something about beefy vs crappy internals???? Whats up there exactly.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris, at the time I placed my orders, couldn't find the exact same lenses any place else. Not a big deal, didn't mind waiting as biking season is not exactly in full swing yet.

Yeah if you read all the way back here on the KD MJ-880 clone, you'll see that they changed the internal design at some point. First model on offer was XM-L T6, it had either two separate emitter stars and a full divider wall or heavy pills, forget which. Current XM-L2 U2 version has huge circular cutouts and single emitter board, much like your SolarStorm X3. Dunno whether the XM-L T6 that KD still sells in a package is unaltered from that first one but I suspect it might because they're asking the original price, over eleven dollars more than the current XM-L2. Kaidomain might be willing to sell the lamp head alone, they are very accommodating that way. I'd want to verify first how it's made inside though, doubt KD would have the answer. Either way, a very nice lamp with a slick look and the dual control buttons are certainly a definite plus.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well I ask cause what amazon offers always seems to be older versions and I don't mind buying the lights there, the cells when stripped from packs and ran through my bc6 balance charger and such seem to work pretty well afterwards. Saving me from buying good cells yet. But thnx for heads up on that. Kd 2 id the same way, big through holes and single plate too. I dont mind that as long as plate goes in from optics side and not back side like kd 2


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Yeah tigris they're selling the OxyLED branded version of the whole package on Amazon for around $40. Says XM-L and the pics show it with that earlier Cree emitter. Still that's no guarantee you'd receive the original build KD used. Seems like a real crap shoot, especially as there are both XM-L T6 and XM-L U2 versions floating around. Not to mention, Amazon might be even be fulfilling current orders with the latest build, not like they always have so much as a clue. So, if neither Kaidomain nor anyone here can confirm that the better earlier model is available, I'd say best value would be to order either the solitary NW XM-L2 U2 lamp head or full package from KD. At least you'd be getting the emitters you want, and you're handy enough to improve the rest.

BTW, think the Silver model looks a lot more spiffy than the Black, pictures on KD don't do it justice.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Raw does look pretty slick, part of my thing with getting kd lights on amazon, I still don't have my kd order from almost 4 weeks ago. Took them 3 weeks to get my order to the postal service. And they aren't like gearbest and offer an affordable expedited shipping. And now oxyled isn't the only kd 2x option, found 1 or 2 more.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Silver model seems to be anodized too, it's brighter and more sparkly than regular raw aluminum.

tigris, the other two KD style clones on Amazon are more expensive than the OxyLED and both probably ship from China anyway, delivery estimate is the same ~four to six weeks with each despite one saying USA.

My last delivery from Kaidomain took only a couple of weeks. Think a lot of delays with them just a matter of not all items being in stock at any moment. But you can email KD before placing an order to find out which sku's are available to ship right away, they're always very responsive. You might even be able to find out from them whether any of their MJ style lamps is still the original build, if you can provide enough info in simple language (easier said than done.)


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Actually the 3 I have saved are all prime 2 day shipping eligible. Oxyled, securitying just added one in the last few days then the supernight one which seems to have the oldest version. Not easy to find took me browsing everything cree light under cycling, prime eligible, to find the other 2.





Btw Andy, what does ur driver look like, haven't found driver pics yet.

Edit: Nvm found pics.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Wow those sure _are_ hard to find, tigris! But SecurityIng doesn't say which model it is save for only being 800 lumens (probably the shocking truth about them all, but just might indicate genuinely inferior circuitry here) and while from the limited specs provided the Supernight _could_ be the same as the original KD, there is no way of knowing the truth until you get it. Also note that item is not shipped by Amazon so ineligeable for Prime or their superior exchange policy - delivery estimate still not bad even for Standard though. But as neither of these skus have garnered any reviews yet on Amazon I'd certainly hesitate before ordering, especially as they both come to more than the OxyLED, and all of them would still require around a $9 upgrade for neutral white emitters.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hmm my account shows supernight with prime fullfilled by amazon, same with my securitying version. I always check that, but im gonna double check on website vs my app.

Securitying to me seems like later model and wasn't their a few days ago (my kd 2 is securitying and I searched all their lights a week ago), supernight has a few reviews dating back to release of kd 2x. Oxyled not much there either.

Gonna drag up links try to figure out why your seeing something different than me, maybe learn a detail I missed about amazon lol.

Update: Nope, fulfilled by amazon and covered by their return policy
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=106096011

Hmm which one to order.... Not oxy, its only 3 mode, securitying is more expensive but I know that brand... Other one has best chance of pills and good reviews....supernight it is.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Huh, only ones I see by Supernight look like this:

Amazon.com : SUPERNIGHT(TM) 2 X CREE XML T6 LED Bike Headlight Headlamp Bicycle Light With Rechargeable 4400mAh Battery, 1800 LM, Waterproof, For Cycling, Hunting, Camping, Traveling, Hiking, Caving, Climbing : Sports & Outdoors

But the one in Gold is cheaper, even than the OxyLED:

Amazon.com : SUPERNIGHT(TM) CREE XML T6 LED Bicycle headlight, 3 Modes 1800 Lumens Waterproof CREE XM-L LED Bike Front Handbar Flashlight Torch, Super Bright Cycling Front Light for Cycling, 4400mAh Rechargeable Battery Pack & Charger (Gold) : Sports

Still these all say:

Ships from and sold by eBestrade.

There's another listing for the Supernight fulfilled by Amazon I'm not seeing?!?

OxyLED has 34 reviews. Fulfilled by Amazon.

Amazon.com : OxyLED BL15 3-Mode Waterproof Bright Rechargeable 2 x XML U2 1500 Lumens Cree LED Headlight / Headlamp / Bicycle Light / Bike Light Set with 8800mAh Battery Pack and Charger, for Outdoor Sports / Camping / Hiking - Black : Sports & Outdo

SecurityIng clone I'm seeing says added Nov 5, 2013. Fulfilled by Amazon.


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

So far what I've seen there were only two versions of MJ-880 clone. I don't know about Amazon (it doesn't deliver to my country), but I've got few from ebay and KD. Versions with XM-L leds were old design with pills and versions with XM-L2 were one plate led PCB. Both versions had same driver, but different connector (minor difference waterproof versus nonwaterproof). With both versions some sort of pills were needed to elevate leds into position where LED-DNA lenses have fit. Otherwise housings didn't have much difference and I think the consistency is much better than with most SS X2.

Based on that I think there is not much to be afraid. Of course I might be wrong. With Chinese you would never know. ;-)


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

*Ah, found it!*

http://www.amazon.com/SUPERNIGHT-TM...TF8&qid=1428149385&sr=1-8&keywords=supernight

Okay so this Supernight sku is fulfilled by Amazon. And a good thing too, it has not gotten the best reviews by those who actually attempted to use it for any length of time. Am sure though tigris you'd be able to take care of any little shortcomings beforehand. Like ledoman says, a great lamp body no matter which version. Gold one looks pretty hot too. Only wish some vendor offered it with NW XM-L2, not worth the price and effort to me to reflow new emitters. Will let you have all the fun, tigris. ;-)


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hell reflowing emitters take 5 mins 

Well works out I have optics on the way from leddna, just no idea when/if they'll ever show up lol.


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

andychrist said:


> Well as long as I had to wait for the optics from FastTech to arrive, ordered the complete set of triangular head drivers that -Archie- found for me on Amazon. Worked great, and a good thing too because I had to take that little sucker apart a good many times trying to figure out the easiest way to mod it without a workshop.


Great! BTW, what size of screwdriver fits? Just curious to check whether I have correct triangular bit for that light, in case I'll ever encounter it in my practice...


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

-Archie- said:


> Great! BTW, what size of screwdriver fits? Just curious to check whether I have correct triangular bit for that light, in case I'll ever encounter it in my practice...


It was the "Green" size. 

Pretty sure that's the TA23.

Thanks again -Archie- and also bhocewar, the info and pics you posted were invaluable. :thumbsup:


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

So I guess the consensus is that of all the dual xm-l budget lights out right now, this one has the best body in terms of mass and heat dissipation and is best suited to driving at higher currents? Does the kd2 driver swap over? Sorry for not reading the while thread but it's just beginning to catch my eye as the limitations of the kd2 are being reached


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Ugh! You guys are now tempting me to buy another light! I do like that this light has more mass, a little more style, and better fins.

So, does the KD2 driver fit this light? Wait, you'd have the issue of dual switches. You'd have to disable one or rework the driver.

-Garry


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

There is no need to disable the switch. It is you just don't have one under the button. I might take a look if somehow driver fits. But I doubt since stock one is mounted in the center lower edge.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

From looking at pics there's no way kd2 driver will fit. This has center screw holes, and kd2 attaches at the ends.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hey, let everyone know carclo and LEDDNA optics are the same size (I have 2 of every beam pattern of both places). Doesn't count holders but who uses them anyway lol.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

What's up with those little tabs on the side of Carclo's 20mm lenses? Kinda hard to make out from the manufacturer's site but on LEDSupply they are more visible and look like they stick out from the rim. :skep:









Did yours come like that tigris?


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the oxyled version. Should be here thursday. I wasn't gonna do it but realized I needed a stupid bluetooth adapter and the buying finger had an itch


----------



## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

manbeer said:


> I wasn't gonna do it but realized I needed a stupid bluetooth adapter and the buying finger had an itch


:thumbsup:


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

andychrist said:


> What's up with those little tabs on the side of Carclo's 20mm lenses? Kinda hard to make out from the manufacturer's site but on LEDSupply they are more visible and look like they stick out from the rim. :skep:
> 
> View attachment 979149
> 
> ...


According to the "Description" on LED Supply's webpage: "The tab on the outside edge of the optic secures the optic into a 26.5mm optic holder (shown in the above image)."

Here is an image of the Carclo holder:










-Garry


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> According to the "Description" on LED Supply's webpage: "The tab on the outside edge of the optic secures the optic into a 26.5mm optic holder (shown in the above image)."
> 
> -Garry


Huh, my iPad doesn't show the image they refer to in Description, guess it's the mobile site. But still, are these lenses designed only to fit in a holder? Because otherwise that tongue would keep the lens from sitting flush against the inner face of any bike lamp I know of. Plus there is yet another tab sticking up from the holder itself that would also interfere. Perhaps these lenses are designed for some specific lighting fixture not referenced on the site? Doesn't look like you could snap the tongue off from the lens without taking a hunk of the rim along with it either. Are there other 20mm Carclo optics without any such protuberance, that I'm missing? Was why I ordered my 20mm drop ins from FastTech and LEDDNA, their lenses were not adorned this way.

Also notice now, there appear to be two different style tabs: LEDSupply shows the tongue which sticks inward and wouldn't engage with any part of that holder, while Carclo's own site shows a tab under the side of the rim that actually _would_ engage with the holder pictured on LEDSupply. 









Not sure whether this line of Carclo's would be compatable with KDs or any other 20mm bike lamp head.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Sometimes optics have the indexing feature to ensure correct orientation. Imagine an assembly line using elliptical optics. You would want a fast and foolproof way to align the beam pattern correctly. 

Sometimes the holder is required to properly locate the emitter in the optic. Small differences in axial positioning can make a big difference in beam quality and optic efficiency. In playing around with swapping emitter brands/styles, I've found that an axial position difference of as little as .1mm makes a visible difference in beam quality. Leddna seen to work fine with or without the holder. I have only used Carclo on 2 different lights with disappointing results so have given up on them. Most Ledil optics need the holder for proper positioning. 

If you need to remove an indexing tab, file it off. Snapping it off usually takes more material with it than you want.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya I use a hobby blade to cut them off. I dont snap off just because I figured itd mess up optics quality.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

So then are the Carclos only indexed by way of the holder, or is the base of each lamp also designed to align with the emitter? Lenses I got from FastTech have four little rectangular feet to latch around it- didn't come with tabs or holder, and would have fallen through the face plate had I not retained the glass disks that protected the original reflectors. But at least once they're in right they stay put, 15º optics workin' out pretty well so far.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ur optics look the same as leddna optics, 4 feet, which I cut off for my ss x3. Thnx for the heads u on optics being a hair small. I know to be ready to modify for it


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I'm am idiot
Posted on wrong thread. Ignore


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Ignore


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Oxyled version came in today. First off this is one hefty little beast. I don't have triangle bits so no teardown but it is a nice looking body. Battery case doesn't look to be of much use though unless you can spot weld you're stuck using the cells included


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

manbeer said:


> Oxyled version came in today. First off this is one hefty little beast. I don't have triangle bits so no teardown but it is a nice looking body. Battery case doesn't look to be of much use though unless you can spot weld you're stuck using the cells included


Huh, your OxyLED didn't come with the anodized battery holder with replaceable cells?  That's the only one I've ever seen included with any of the 880 clones. Do you have a link to your purchase, manbeer?

Just got my ellipticals from LEDDNA. They fit perfectly in the Yinding but again for the KD, had to retain the original plain glass discs inside the face plate to keep the optics from falling out. Only ordered 10º*45º and 20º*60º, now I kinda wish I'd picked up 30º*60º as well, if only for comparison sake, they're so inexpensive. Even the 45º is plenty wide, just the 10º height seems a bit skimpy when the lamp is pointed downward enough to illuminate in front of the wheel. 20º*60º optics in the KD throw juuust far enough to combine with an unaltered Yinding for a fairly long ranging, uninterupted beam pattern. Will have to spend some time on the trails upstate to determine whether this setup needs further tweaking.


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Amazon.com : OxyLED BL15 3-Mode Waterproof Bright Rechargeable 2 x XML U2 1500 Lumens Cree LED Headlight / Headlamp / Bicycle Light / Bike Light Set with 8800mAh Battery Pack and Charger, for Outdoor Sports / Camping / Hiking - Black : Sports & Outdo

Case is anodized but cells are spot welded like a standard pack with the pcb sandwiched between them. Also the pack was pretty dead as it arrived (didn't check voltage but indicators were red plugged in with no load


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

And what does that other case have??? I know u can change the cells but is there a PCB?


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

tigris99 said:


> And what does that other case have??? I know u can change the cells but is there a PCB?


from my understanding the others had a case similar to one from KD a while back that had a pcb and used typical spring mounts for cells. The tricky thing is that it looks almost identical so as with all things chinese, it's a crap shoot which one you'll get


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Just noticed securitying version shows phillips head screws up front so maybe it's from a different build house?

Anyway the good news is that even though I got screwed on the non removable cells the seller states that the 4 cell pack is "8800 mah" - must be true, right?


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Yeah manbeer the version you got says XM-L U2, so it probably is not the same build as the XM-L T6 that tigris ordered. T6 might be original quality, guess he'll find out.

Sorry you got such a bad deal there on Amazon. At least you can return the OxyLED if you're not happy with it. Original XM-L T6 is still available from KD as well as packages and solitary lamp heads in CW and NW XM-L2 U2.


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

3 different ellipticals at LEDDNA? I just ordered and only saw two options 20x60 and 30x60. I now see the 10x45 on the mobile site but don't remember it on their "standard" site when I ordered. DOH! 

-Garry


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

andychrist said:


> Yeah manbeer the version you got says XM-L U2, so it probably is not the same build as the XM-L T6 that tigris ordered. T6 might be original quality, guess tirgis will find out.
> 
> Sorry you got such a bad deal there on Amazon. At least you can return the OxyLED if you're not happy with it. Original XM-L T6 is still available from KD as well as packages and solitary lamp heads in CW and NW XM-L2 U2.


Oh well, I'm probably not going to bother to return it as the lighthead itself seems decent (until I open it up at least) and if the pack has anywhere near decent capacity I will just give it to a friend who's just getting into night riding to use with his mj808. I may order another version though so now I guess I am left with the supernight and securitying as options (to impatient to order from overseas)

On the other hand the nitefighter is so nice it may just be better to order another one of the bt40 or try to find a bt21. Too many choices...


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

garrybunk said:


> Adding a glass lens in front of the optic is going to cut down on the amount of light making it out. Some of these Chinese glass lenses have been tested at up to 18% loss (my MT-05s).
> 
> -Garry


Yeah I figured there'd be that loss but the efficiency of the optics seems to have mostly or even more than made up for that. Reflectors cause ringing and color separation with NW emitters, and the spill outside the hot spot is too dim to be of much value. 15º optics from FastTech were an overall improvement, even with the extraneous glass to hold them in place - Wish I knew how others here got theirs to stay if they did not reuse the blanks though. Original MJ-880 has some kind of retaining ring set within the face plate, must mate with that holder comes with the 10º optics from FT and LEDDNA.









Wonder why none of the clones have copied this, given how much more expensive those aluminized copper reflectors must be over resin lenses nowadays. Perhaps the MS retaining rings are propritary and none of the other manufactures can get them off the shelf. This would still strike me as odd because I doubt those optic holders, with their three pairs of slits 120º apart, would be exclusive to MagicShine products. Guess they could mate with different retainers and only MS has the ones to fit their face plate? Just like no one else has copied the control buttons on top of the lamp either.

Edit: See where bhocewar trimmed down optic holders to sit flush against the O-rings back of the face plate. Not something I'll attempt to replicate in my little NYC apartment, have already made enough of a mess here.


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Just took mine apart, I actually had triangle bits surprisingly. Seems pretty well constructed. Pcb is on plain aluminum, everything seats nice and tight, added some thermal paste (there was a tiny dab in the center but not much, took some pics and sealed it up. One day when I get better at the interwebs I will post pics from all the crap I've torn down lately


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Manbeer, use Photobucket or similar, they have copy and paste links. I do all my pics with my windows phone, have app to quickly upload to Photobucket, copy and paste link from Photobucket to wherever. Still have all my pics from my rc days on there. Led kits I made, custom made scale rock crawlers I built from scratch, etc. I need to clean it out before I run outta space.


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Thanks, I will check out the app. I had an old account that I was too lazy to clear out and for some reason it will never let me delete and start fresh. By the way have been using the hobby charger and loving it, thanks for helping me out. Now testing capacity of all my packs out of boredom lol


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Lol no problem, I need to do it but as I learned yesterday capacity isn't everything. Having new set of Panasonics I understand why ppl complain about Chinese cheap cells, brand name cells do better at delivering the power. These included cells work just dont push the amps near as steadily.


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Tigres, did you see the link I posted for the 3400 mah panasonic/Sanyo cells (guess it was a transition period from buyout )on amazon for 19.99/set of 4? I just got a few sets and they are really top notch for the price


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya not sure supposed to be Panasonics, that's what I bought was that set 

And exciting day, tornado came through area covered quite a distance covered but lifted over the river and town I live in (half on a big hill), literally straight over my house dropped again northeat of town and missed my aunts place by less than 100 yrds.


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Wow glad you're ok, where do you live? Stuff like that never really happens out here, in general pretty safe save for ticks

And yeah those cells we made by panasonic and Sanyo basically tweaked ncr18650s so they kick some butt


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Live in northwestern Illinois on the river other side from Clinton Iowa which is where the worst of it was.



Edits: Omfg, we got hit by twins, explains what I saw, not sure how or why but our town right in the path, they jumped us the unleashed again. Kind of disturding I dont know of any record of twins hitting populated areas with enough force to do what these tornados did. Counting my blessings right now. And had that storm come an hr later would have been alot worse, not long after it passed us it got bad.


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Pics of oxyled clone from amazon. Interestingly enough when I left my store I had the stock battery pack on the hobby charger to test capacity and it was almost at 3000mah with another .52 volts to go so it may well be close to the stated 4400mah capacity. Still wish it had replaceable cells like the others though


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hey manbeer, any chance you can check if 1/2" copper plumbing end caps fit nicely into those holes behind the emitters? Also try a piece of 1/2" copper pipe if you can. 

Thanks
-Garry


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Hmm I like where you are going with this. Heading to my local home depot in a few


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Wait - might be 3/4" copper pipe and end caps. It's not my original idea. See this X2 clone mod: Mod - SolarStorm X2 Clone - Pic Heavy (In-Progress) | BudgetLightForum.com

-Garry


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

If the holes are like ss x3 the holes are 18mm so I believe 1/2", remember copper pipe is measured by ID, and caps are designed to fit I've the specified pipe, 3/4 is like 1" (25mm) OD on the caps I believe. Can't find my 1/2 and 3/4 caps I have somewhere to measure exactly but I do remember 3/4 caps didn't even fit inside ss x3 at all. 1/2 cap fit kind of in the center but still too big to plug that hole.

So if you get anything, get 1/2 and 3/8 caps


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Well I saw the reply a bit late, got a few odds and ends but couldn't find a match. I will bring my caliper tomorrow and find something to match up


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I had the same problem at home depot, not alot of options. Problem is the US is still too arrogant to accept the metric scale lol. So trying to find matches to things sucks for items made in other countries.


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yeah I was surprised at the crappy selection and everything in the wrong bin. Hate that place...normally I like supporting small business but most places are closed by 5 or 6 here


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I feel you, and I have no small shop options, just home depot and ace. Home depot is turning into the WalMart of home improvement lol.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Yeah I couldn't find the right size copper end caps at Lowe's either. Wonder whether some Canadian vendor might stock them in metric (that's where I got SS M4 screws.) Very difficult to find online, even searching Lowe's here did not bring them up, although they actually did have one 1/2" and some 3/4" copper caps in the bins. (Of course before I stumbled upon them myself, was approached by a helpful employee who asked what I was looking for. When I told him copper end caps he looked at me as if I were crazy and said they didn't have anything like that. Well he was half right. 

Edit: Nope, Canadian sites mostly offer Imperial sizing too. Only metric on offer was imported from either the U.K. or Australia, shipping is astronomical. Closest size available is 15mm, dunno what the exterior might be.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I can buy metric screws all day long. Home depot has crap for options but they have some. Ace Hardware has everything in regular or ss from m3 up to m10.

Amazon is also great for metric hardware (or in a pinch hit a hobby/rc shop)


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> If the holes are like ss x3 the holes are 18mm so I believe 1/2", remember copper pipe is measured by ID, and caps are designed to fit I've the specified pipe, 3/4 is like 1" (25mm) OD on the caps I believe. Can't find my 1/2 and 3/4 caps I have somewhere to measure exactly but I do remember 3/4 caps didn't even fit inside ss x3 at all. 1/2 cap fit kind of in the center but still too big to plug that hole.
> 
> So if you get anything, get 1/2 and 3/8 caps


The 3/4" at Lowe's were 24mm exterior diameter. Dunno what the OD of the 1/2" was, looked small and they only had one unit in stock anyway. For reference, best fit I can find inside the KD is a dime. But just adding the extra ~1.5mm back plate behind the emitter board worked fine for me. Don't think I'd bother attempting to plug the holes on my other, Silver 880 clone unless I can find a real easy, drop in solution.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

So I got on amazon to buy a mudder kd2 clone.....as I was rolling through wish list for it found the securitying version was dropped to $29.99. So I grabbed I instead, with my amazon credit for free 1 day, it'll be here tomorrow . As much as I shouldn't have $20 refund from amazon and free overnight, plus the $30 price I couldn't pass it up.

I'll fill you guys in on the securitying version tomorrow. I know that gold color is COMING OFF, I hate that color lol.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris, do you have a link to that SecurityIng? Can't find it on Amazon Prime, D'oh!


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

It's gone now, there was one left and he snagged it 

I watch that **** like a hawk lol


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

manbeer said:


> It's gone now, there was one left and he snagged it


So which version was it, the XM-L U2 or T6?

T6 is more likely the original build, with the pills and interchangeable cells.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

You can't find it because they took it down as unavailable now after I bought it. Dunno wtf these Chinese guys are doing.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh just found out when I called amazon cause delivery date change, I bought the last one lol


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Oh just found out when I called amazon cause delivery date change, I bought the last one lol


So which version did you get, the T6 or U2?


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Securitying so think its u2 version. T6 version was out of stock via amazon anyway.

I'll know more on Monday but it has a screw lid case and pending on its design I can probably make it to where I can change the cells.

Manbeer, I try to watch it and seem to keep getting lucky either finding or at least seeing you guys post about it before their gone.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Yeah even the T6 Supernight that was fulfilled by Amazon before isn't anymore, dagnabbit.


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Yep, only the oxyled now


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

And the OxyLED is U2 not T6 so no reason to buy that one anyway, it won't have the same build as the first KD 880 clone (if any of them still do.)


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well they all probably are by now. I got it cause the head is a beast, see what I can do to it. One last expirament before building my own lighthead.

Edit: I cancelled this order, though it shows in stock for prime, its actually not. I contacted the seller they say its all up to amazon. However amazon (an actual American) explained that these morons bring items to amazon warehouse for amazon to ship them as needed. Not sure how that works but guess I can't trust "prime eligible" anymore either.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

HAVE TO POST THIS. I owed an apology to one person and explained to amazon the matter and what not. The rep didn't bother to tell me the damn light was Mia in their warehouse.

BUT ALL THAT ASIDE HOLY CRAP, I know what those light set with batteries cost the seller now. Companies having low margins my A***! amazon reimbursed seller for missing light, $4.97......thats what it cost the seller (prior to amazon fees etc).

I wanna get in this business with margins like that. $45 normal, $30 on sale cost $5 plus fees....


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Good and bad news. I just got the securitying version of this from amazon. The bad news is that it's the last one but who knows...it'll probably come back soon. The good news is that it seems like the original version. Build quality better than oxyled, replaceable cells which are actually the same markings as the mudder kd2 clone and seem to be real 2200mah capacity. Very excited by this one

Edit:
This is also the one with the separate stars on pills rather than the dual emitter pcb like the oxyled




























OxyLED version here:



















Edit again, I just found kir's pics of the original quality one from KD and this is a perfect match, down to the numbers printed on the board, cree printed on the stars, and the same cells which he tested at 2100mah. Let's hope amazon get some more


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

As I wrote some time ago. If the leds are XM-L then it is very likely the old version with separate pills. If there are XM-L2 leds then it is very likely you would get single PCB like OxyLED version shown above.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

There might also have been some difference with the various anodized models. Think MK96 said the XM-L2 U2 version in Silver he received was the original build, but that the Black wasn't?

Interesting that manbeer's OxyLED clone is actually XM-L2, description on Amazon just says XM-L U2.

They still have the Supernight XM-L T6 in Gold for only $29.99 + $5.07 shipping, not a bad deal if it is the original build. Pair of NW XM-L2 emitters from FastTech would start at $7.26 for their T5 5B1, a very mellow tint.

Too bad though there is no drop-in solution for converting this lamp from reflectors to optics, necessary mods are a little involved.


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

andychrist said:


> Interesting that manbeer's OxyLED clone is actually XM-L2, description on Amazon just says XM-L U2.


It is not suprizing to me since there are very likely chinese sellers behind. Reading description at Amazon may be no better than at flea bay when cheapo led lights comes into question.

Modding 880-clone to optics it's not such a big deal if you not to picky and want to have it all the best. You may just put some copper washers under pcb or pills. Of course this is not the best solution but it works, just less efficiently.


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

In theory, it couldn't be that much to have a couple pucks machined from aluminum stock to fit right? This is actually a beefy light. I'm impressed. Plus I love any battery case with replaceable cells. When I opened it up and saw it was like the original I felt like a kid on Christmas morning


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

manbeer said:


> In theory, it couldn't be that much to have a couple pucks machined from aluminum stock to fit right? This is actually a beefy light. I'm impressed.


Yes, I've moded mine that way plus added Noctigon PCB's and raised current for about 30% with additional R330 resistor over stock one. Brightnes wise it became on paar with its original.


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

That's probably what I will do, aside from maybe the resistor mods as my soldering skills are horrid


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok so I broke down and ordered the supernight version, still a us based seller so be here tomorrow. They seem to be thinking out to where its going to be kd only and for $5 more than the lighthead I get the hole package.

I'll report tomorrow night when I get it tore down if it uses pills or anything. See how hard I can push this little thing.


----------



## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Hopefully it's the same as the securitying version. I have my fingers crossed


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Aight nice call Andy, I GOT PILLS!!!

And led DNA optics will fit perfectly with nothing more than spacing the pills towards.

https://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/mavric99/temporary_zps7zzgtug3.jpg

Next Manbeer, I have a securitying style case

https://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/mavric99/temporary_zpswspahkqm.jpg

Lucked out glad I grabbed it before they ran out. Now I dont feel guilty for mudder case going on commuter possibly to run 2 lights. Get voltage drop running a 2 emitter accross the stock port while other dual emitter (yindings for testing) is in the cable. Made the black yinding brighter than my blue one, which shouldn't be possible. But kd2 on plug and angel eye on port and works great.

But now I gotta order more emitters, well maybe, my u4 1c emitters came today, may just put both in with 45 and 60 optics, see what happens. Was going to run the test accross my yindings but maybe not now. I put the last of my u2 3cs in the kd2 last night.

Edit: Test fit of optics shows will need to get orings from hardware store, they don't quite fit perfectly in the front plate, but standard orings will be thick enough to fix the issue.

And pills fit a little loose...but just enough that gap is a bit much for thermal compound but not enough to fit my copper sheet around it...


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

Wow then that was a really good deal, tigris, about $20 less for the whole package than at Kaidomain, original build and two day shipping, can't beat that with a stick. Take it those round bases inside the pills are 16mm? Also, Supernight says: 3 lighting modes: High, Low, and Blinking. Take it that's a mistake, there is also a Mid like on all the other clones?

BTW how many lumens are those U4 emitters you got? Just found some NW U3 rated 1260, so are the U4 over 1300? :eekster: They just come in CW that way, not NW, right?

Thanks!


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wasn't 2 day, but they have US warehouse, so still only took 4 days.

As for emitter, mtnelectronics JUST got them in. I got on the presale, got 2 with 16mm noctigons and a couple bare. Figure each bin ups output by about 60 lumens on avg, so 1310-1320ish is going to be my loosely educated guess.

The ones already on noctigons ive already sliced most of the dome off and sitting in gasoline now. One thing im loving, PILLS AND PCBS!!! So its literally direct swap from stock pcbs to my mcpcbs. I should be able to push this light to true 3000mA (not calculated prior to losses) since head can handle the heat.

They really need to develope this lighthead further. Its got some serious potential, I may be able to make it surpass my ssx3.


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

tigris99 said:


> Aight nice call Andy, I GOT PILLS!!!
> 
> Edit: Test fit of optics shows will need to get orings from hardware store, they don't quite fit perfectly in the front plate, but standard orings will be thick enough to fix the issue.
> 
> And pills fit a little loose...but just enough that gap is a bit much for thermal compound but not enough to fit my copper sheet around it...


Have you considered aluminium tape to wrap those pills?

Wanna see how the O-rings work on your Supernight. Didn't think everything would fit right that way on my crappy KD build so I just compensated by backing up the emitter board.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well I still have to space the pills forward, but that's a given, optics are shorter than reflectors.

No didn't even think about aluminum tape, wonder how adhesive effects thermal transfer. May have to hit home depot later (wish I would have thought about it while at ace getting orings)


----------



## andychrist (Aug 25, 2011)

I don't think the microscopic layer of adhesive on aluminum tape negatively effects thermal transfer, tigris; I practically built my whole backing plate from it. And you'd probably only need one go round of the pills to fill that small gap well enough. You want I can send you some, got plenty.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh no worries I can grab some if needed. I dont want to mess with it till I sort spacing the pills forward.



Right now im hoping I can make a solid bar light out of it. As it sits right now the driver is comparable to the yinding driver (more output than kd2 driver). Major hot spot stock with having op reflectors.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

And here we go 

Converting to optics was EASY. 1" hole saw bit for my dirll cut spacer discs from 1/8 aluminum plate that were the same size as the pills, but 2.85mm thick, just what I needed to bring pills foward. Changed wire to 20awg just for the hell of it, not sure it really needed it but every little bit helps.

Switch emitters to current set up of 1 u2 3c on a 45deg and a u4 1c dedomed on 10x45.

Also, calculated driver output....3.5A, so should be right about 3.0A true. And judging by the light I got now its pretty close I hope (im gonna check it tomorrow cause lately been noticing calculations are far higher than actual on all these light).

Ill do a side by side with my black yinding (not getting u3 1a dedome replaced with a u4) tomorrow night, see what the true boost is.

Case temps no air flow sit at about 110deg at 75 deg outside temp, gave up bothering with it atm cause it was taking so long to heat up and didnt feel like a full temp test tonight.

Anyway, pics:





Also found today that the red panasonic that seemed to be having issues, was having real issues,lol. I gotta discharge it to dead tomorrow and get rid of it.


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok so this light runs between 2.9 and 3.0A. First light head I could push that hard. With my custom solarstorm finned gopro adapter from vanc, its also my coolest running light at 115-120F, without it, it sits in the 130s.

Light output seems a bit above my bt40 (turned up to 1.3A calculated on turbo) and ss x3. But ssx3 is heavy on the flood side.

Really liking this light head lol. With optics set up makes awesome bar light. Be hard to choose between it and bt40.

I do know hopefully not this weekend but following I want to go out and try all my lights on the trails.


----------



## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> Ok so this light runs between 2.9 and 3.0A. First light head I could push that hard. With my custom solarstorm finned gopro adapter from vanc, its also my coolest running light at 115-120F, without it, it sits in the 130s.
> 
> Light output seems a bit above my bt40 (turned up to 1.3A calculated on turbo) and ss x3. But ssx3 is heavy on the flood side.
> 
> ...


I thought I saw something where you swapped in 2 of the 3 emitter noctigons with hp-l hi LEDs. Did you add resistors to the driver? If I was able to find the version with the pills and just swapped out the LED with the triple noctigons can I just swap them in(and space the pills to use the optics from Carlco) without messing with the driver? How would the triple hp-l hi with stock driver compare to the bt40s?


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

That was over int eh DIY subforum. I installed 1st just one triple noctigon with xp-l hi to see if they would fit, then switch to 2 triples with xp-g2 s3 emitters.

The pills have actually nothing to do with the triple mode, I took those out. It requires custom machined spacers for triples only available from MTNelectronics.com (they are for converting flashlights to triple) to make them fit.


----------



## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

I now also ordered one, now I would exchange the Led and the Pcb.
What is the diameter of the pc board?


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

16mm on the old ones, but it depends what you'll get it may also be in one piece konsisted of two 20-21mm circles as can be seen on pictures above. If later then you'll need to reflow leds or do some more modding.


----------



## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

I want to order her from Kaidomain.
I wanted actually 2 separate copper PCP circles, what size do I need here, without having to work the PCP, 16mm or 20 mm?
KD 2xCree XM-L2 U2 Neutral White 4700K-5000K 4-Mode 2200 Lumens Bike Light -Black(Battery Excluded).


Led perhaps an XPL2 HD or perhaps even an XHP50, afterwards I would increase the current on the Led?


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

There is no way of knowing what you will need with this light. They keep changing them to make them cheaper.

As ledoman said, it may not even have 2 separate PCBs but if it does they are probably 20mm

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


----------



## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

Wy cheaper?
Is not that possible with 2 individual boards?
Which finished PCP would otherwise still fit, preferably Copper Board?


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

You need to disassemble the thing. You won't know what you need if you don't do it  Until it is just a pure guesstimate


----------



## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

I have to order the lamp and I want to order the same components, same delivery!


----------



## Stark (Apr 29, 2008)

Why just this one? There are a lot of good lamps available!


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

If you have the money to waste on modding cheap Chinese lights just order the emitters you want on both 16mm & 20mm bases. Either one will be usable on this lamp.

-Garry


----------



## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Then you can just guess what is in. Internals and leds are changing to drop the cost of manufacturing.



gecco said:


> I have to order the lamp and I want to order the same components, same delivery!


----------



## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

I have now 8 Yindings, 3 Nitefighter Bt40,1 Nitefighter Bt21.Und these are only the Bikelampen.
Search for what's new to modden.
The 880er has always pleased me, only the original is too expensive, therefore replica!


----------



## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Can't be too expensive as you already spent more than that on your list of bike lights . 8 yindings is the cost of a pretty nice bike light.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

gecco said:


> .....The 880er has always pleased me, only the original is too expensive, therefore replica!


The 880 clones are not a replica. They are quite a bit different on both internal and external details.


----------



## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

Today I got my KD 2.
I want to give it higher power.
Which components do I need?
What can be max power to me the Led does not burn off?
KD 2 from Kaidomain.
Is that the original driver or a reproduction?

Furthermore, I would like to change the optics, but do not know if it makes sense. I thought of the Leddna synonymous for the Yinding fit?
Are there perhaps comparative photos with original optics and the lenses Leddna with different degrees?
I already take care of the heat transfer with copper sleeves and Copper Backplates.
And new heat transfer paste MX4.
Thanks








The used pills are 20.6mm wide and 14.3mm high.Also Insulation Gaskets are on the Led.























The hole between front and back has a diameter of 17.5mm.
Here copper rings or plates can be installed.





















At the front one would have the diameter of 20.9mm for copper rings, so 20mm Led boards are installed.

It is not so easy to reconstruct this lamp, the insulation gaskets are not glued then the pills, the fluoriszierende seals then the large cover seal and then still the two glass panes.


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hey gecco, can you post some pics of your copper sleeve mod? Do you have stock amps measured off the pack? Are you using DTP emitter boards (pcbs)? or the stock aluminum one? 

SS34 will limit you to 3A coming in off the pack. (Could be replaced with SS54 for up to 5A). Looks to me like R13 & R14 are the sense resistors - (2) R250's in parallel for 0.125 resulting resistance. One thing we know is that halving the resistance will double the current, so stacking two more R250's will double it. 

I'm not able to find specs on the FET - BA251N, but I'd guess it will be fine for your desired level. I'd say push for around 2.8A each (and maybe leave SS34 alone), but no higher than 3.5A each. 

-Garry


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

gecco said:


> Today I got my KD 2.
> I want to give it higher power.
> Which components do I need?


Actually...you're posting photo's of an 880 clone. That's okay. Continue on.


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes the name KD2 we are using for different light.

Gecco there is missing picture of the other side of driver. We can't say anything for sure if we can't see all elements. To me, driver has pretty new design.


----------



## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

The required images of drivers are inserted above.

Have just seen that the R5 and R6 components not visible because they are in the shade, should these be important I will look again.

I have not modified yet, I have the Lamps only get,
but already everything at home, but had no time yet.
If I modify the cooling with copper and copper sleeves
I take pictures and set them, OK.

It would be very interesting whether the beam pattern for the 880 clone or for the Solarstorm X2 with the original reflectors is better or with Leddna lenses?
There should be conversions, but I can not find any photos of the beam patterns


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

The IC3 chip is the one I wanted to see. It is LEDA so same 0,25V feedback voltage to calculate the current to the leds. With two R250 resistors it is 2A to the leds.


----------



## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

How much amps do I actually hold XML2 Leds from? Or is the eletronics broken before me when I drive eg with 3.5 amps.


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

XM-L2 are declared for 3A and I would not go over that point. You would get more heat than light - ie. it is contraproductive unless you have very good heatsinking, which you can't get with bicycle lights.

Diode D1 SS34 is for 3A, don't know for IC2 marked 431, but very likely it doesn't play any role in the output power.


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Wow, they pushed that light to 2A in stock form with that lousy heatsinking? Seems it wouldn't last long at all that way.

-Garry


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

No, it's not that bad as with SSX2. Since this light has quite a lot mass compared to others it is better heatsink and heat tranfer is bit quicker. Some thermal paste has to be added, though.
Of course there are much better solutions out there. One of them is tightly fit alu disc with apropriate height to acomodate Led-dna optics. Copper is of course even better as you already know.


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Hey Ledoman,
how many 880 clone inserts do you need? Will get them done next week (alu version)


----------



## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Will contact you on private, thanks.


----------



## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

The problem is that if you have the original reflectors (pills) inside you can only insert small copper plates on the back of the led plate, there is no space on the front.
However, if you replace the original reflectors with lenses, eg Leddna you also have a little space on the front to use short copper tube in 20 mm diameter.
This applies to the KD 2 (880 clone) and the SolarStorm X2 / X3!


----------



## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

I have a question?
I would like to convert my 880 clones also to Leddna Lens!
How much did you put under the Led board with the Leddna lenses, and have you left the insulated gaskets or removed?
How is that with the height and the lamp is dense?

You have left the white bowl on the Leddna optics, but have you also cut off at the height what the 4 feet with the optics or what else shortened?

Dense then the Leddna lenses enough or have you also left the original glass pane inside?

Is there nowhere before after pictures with original reflector and rebuilt Leddna lenses?

Thanks

I have inserted some Leddna optics in my Yindings, perhaps this is also a decision aid for the 880 clone of the luminous characteristic

a"> 

*45 Grad.JPG*
Dateigröße:
51,5 KB
Aufrufe:
0 

*25 Grad.JPG*
Dateigröße:
48,9 KB
Aufrufe:
0 

*15 Grad.JPG*
Dateigröße:
50,6 KB
Aufrufe:
0 

*10+25 Grad.JPG*
Dateigröße:
50 KB
Aufrufe:
0 

*10 Grad.JPG*
Dateigröße:
52,4 KB
Aufrufe:
0 

*Original.JPG*
Dateigröße:
46,9 KB
Aufrufe:
0 

What I can say is the 45 degrees really great when it comes to the width, the 60 degrees is too wide for me, there is almost nothing more forward,


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Check page 4,

new inserts dim. are fi=20,8mm and d=5,4mm with drilled hole somewhere by he edge for the wires.
You only remove reflectros, white plastic washers and glass pane.
You add inserts below led board and TIR optics with "bowl" but you have to trim
the upper edge for about 2mm so that the edge of plastic bowl is lower or at least in the same line
as the edge of a lip of optics, in order to properly sit the o-ring.
Dont forget a thin layer of thermal paste.


----------



## gecco (Mar 15, 2016)

On the mod Picture i see you install the white plastic washers by the Led.Do you install the white plastic by the Leddna Leds by the mods or not?Thank you


----------



## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Remove original plastic washer under reflector, install leddna optics with white holder.


----------

