# TIG torch problems



## Golem builder (Jul 31, 2009)

Hi all,

I recently got into a strange problem when TIG welding. 

I'm welding as usual and then suddenly the weld puddle goes all fizzzz and the tungsten goes purplish/black. I did not change a thing in my setup and it did the same thing with two argon bottles from two diffrent suppliers.

The welder is a Lincoln invertec-v160, torche is a PT-17 from weldcraft, 1/16 and 3/32 ceriated tungsten, #12 cup with a gas lens and insulator, cfm is at 15. I use this very same setup since 2010 and never had any problems before. The amperage is around 80. I clean everything with emery cloth and acetone. I disconnected and cleaned all the connections to and from the welder, regulator and bottle. I even oppened up the welder to see if there was oxidations of damaged inside

So I changed the gas lens, the cup, the collet and the regulator, new tungsten box (I had everything on hand). The only thing I did not change was the insulator. Not better...

Testing on a stainless sheet is all good even with the blackened tungsted. When I go on steel it goes all wack.

I watersoaped everything and did not find a leak.

Then I went back to a #8 cup with gas lens as I used pre 2010 and it goes wonderfully.

Someone had a similar problem?Can it be the #12 cup insulator? Or something else? It drives me crazy!

Merci!


----------



## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Are you welding somewhere that is exposed to wind/lots of air movement? Even someone opening a door nearby or something? Is the problem happening when the cooling fan (assuming air cooled machine) kicks on?

-Walt


----------



## Golem builder (Jul 31, 2009)

In my other shop I was basically welding outside. This one is super air thight and the door is locked when I weld so no one can enter.

It's true the cooling fan works most of the time but then it would have happened with the #8 cup as well. I'll try putting a baffle to deflect the wind away from where I weld if there's any.

It seems to happend when I finish my weld and I taper off the amperage. One thing I saw when I paid more attention to the cup instead of the weld puddle is that it seemed to have fumes coming out or maybe in the cup opening.


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Golem builder said:


> In my other shop I was basically welding outside. This one is super air thight and the door is locked when I weld so no one can enter.
> 
> It's true the cooling fan works most of the time but then it would have happened with the #8 cup as well. I'll try putting a baffle to deflect the wind away from where I weld if there's any.
> 
> It seems to happend when I finish my weld and I taper off the amperage. One thing I saw when I paid more attention to the cup instead of the weld puddle is that it seemed to have fumes coming out or maybe in the cup opening.


How long is your post weld argon flow? By chance are you pulling back the torch when you taper the amperage?


----------



## Golem builder (Jul 31, 2009)

Post flow is 10 seconds and I try to stand still until I hear the valve closing in the welder.

I tried different flow from 8 to 20 cfm but the results were all the same.

Now with the #8 cup I setteled at 12cfm. Yes I read from the AR side not CO2 side.

For the record this is how my tungsten look. These are not mine however


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Golem builder said:


> Post flow is 10 seconds and I try to stand still until I hear the valve closing in the welder.


I lean towards Walts suggestion then. It doesn't take much air movement to disrupt the argon. I usually try to work away from any sources of air movement including the machine.


----------



## Golem builder (Jul 31, 2009)

Will try this next time I have a ''shop time'' from the familly.

Thanks!


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Golem builder said:


> Will try this next time I have a ''shop time'' from the familly.
> 
> Thanks!


I wanted to add to my other post that 12 cfm argon flow may be a touch low, without running out and looking mine it is probably @ 14/15 cfm.


----------



## afwalker (Apr 26, 2012)

*gas collet?*

#12 gas lens collet? I've had mine clog up after time and seen something similar. I've scraped the gunk off the wire screen but ended up putting a new gas collet and fixed the problem. If your argon is flowing, both pre and post, you should not see this contamination. 15 should be enough.
andy walker
www.flickr.com/photos/afwalker50


----------



## Golem builder (Jul 31, 2009)

I took 10 minutes this morning to take it appart. I was clean.

I also turned on and off the pressure from the bottle to pressurize the line. If there's a significant pressure drop on the pressure gage I'll double check my soapy water test.

Can it be the valve in the welder that leaks?


----------



## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

So there is no rhyme or reason to when it gets contaminated? You can run for a while and then it happens? Or is it happening immediately every time?

-Walt


----------



## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

It may be time for a new torch cable and line it sounds like your kinking the hose or the gas flow solenoid is getting weak/hot and shutting off.


----------



## Golem builder (Jul 31, 2009)

I finished the frame with the #8 cup in thight spots that would have cause me trouble with the #12. Everyting went fine. I'll do more tests with the 12 and let you know.


----------



## Erichimedes (Jul 30, 2010)

We had some issues in the shop recently where I was getting completely random contamination in my weld puddles. In extreme cases, it would scorch the end of the tungsten just like those pictured. It drove me absolutely bonkers trying to find the issue. Finally I found that the hose itself had begun to crack, right below the handle where it bends the same way every time. So it would weld fine until I moved the torch just the right way, then starve my puddle of Argon.

Take the torch off the end of the hose, step on the pedal to get some argon flowing, then put your thumb over the end of the hose (AFTER stepping on the pedal, not during) and see if you can hear any gas escaping anywhere from the hose itself.

Good luck tracking it down. My problem drove me mad for days before we found it. My co workers hose went out a couple months later.


----------



## Golem builder (Jul 31, 2009)

will try this. could make sens. 

Thanks!


----------



## Golem builder (Jul 31, 2009)

Did some testing on the hose as Erichimedes said but with soapy water because I'm half deaf, so hearing a leak is impossible. Found nothing... There are a few cracks and nicks on the hose. Seems superficial.

I also put a cardboard baffle at the fan outlet to send the air away from where I weld.

But I did test the 12 and 8 cups back to back with the same parameters, same position, same tube, same rod, same flow (15cfm) and same tungsten. The contamination occurs at the really end of the taper off, like on the very last pulse. But just on the 12, the 8 is super clean.

So I guess I'll be welding with an 8 cup for a while or I'll take the whole setup to the lincoln center...


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Golem builder said:


> Did some testing on the hose as Erichimedes said but with soapy water because I'm half deaf, so hearing a leak is impossible. Found nothing... There are a few cracks and nicks on the hose. Seems superficial.
> 
> I also put a cardboard baffle at the fan outlet to send the air away from where I weld.
> 
> ...


How much electrode stick out with the 12 cup? Here is a video of an excellent mod for a large coverage gas lens, courtesy Rody @ Groovy Cycle Works.


----------



## afwalker (Apr 26, 2012)

How old is the hose? I now think this is the most likely culprit. Maybe get some new lightweight hoses and see if that fixes the problem. If not try 20 cfm?
CK superflex hose: https://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?...YiCGQbLv0ICI75PP2EjZGWszra3e_S55b2xoCdufw_wcB





Note: they recommend a hose cover to prevent damage.
I should try that. 
Hope you get fixed soon, hate to see your struggles.
andy walker


----------



## Golem builder (Jul 31, 2009)

stick out is 1/2 to 5/8''.

Will try this mod, Might be worth it.


----------



## DSaul (Dec 13, 2012)

I'm fairly new to TIG, but 15cfm seems low for the #12 cup. I run between 20 and 25 with my FUPA cup, depending on the amount of stick out.


----------



## Golem builder (Jul 31, 2009)

Hi Andy, 

It's the original hose so 14 years old. It's lifespan must have come to an end. It's most likely the culprit so I'll change this and let you guys know how it goes.

Thanks!


----------



## Golem builder (Jul 31, 2009)

Cranked the flow to 20cfh, put the background current to 35% and the downslope at 10 (not sure it's doing somethin) and did some passes with 880t wire on a tube. This is how it looks.

















Not to my taste but I can taper off without armaggedon. The torch was at 80 to 70 degres from the surface.


----------



## dwmac (Jan 10, 2016)

What's teh Duty cycle rating, cooling any good in your machine? A short circuit, arcing to ground, lousy plug? 

If it isn't the gas or flow... 

Sent from my GT-I9507 using Tapatalk


----------



## Golem builder (Jul 31, 2009)

Well, I went to the Lincoln repair center with the whole setup and it seems the flow regulator was giving me a wrong reading. I'm now back at the right flow and good beads. 

I sleep better now.

cheers


----------



## afwalker (Apr 26, 2012)

alright, mystery solved, helps all of us welding with your problem solving, thanks
andy


----------

