# FS bike for short women, comments please



## chocolate girl (Jan 5, 2005)

I'm 5'2" and have been riding mtn bikes for 20yrs. The biggest challenge is getting a bike that works for me. 5 yrs ago, I rented a Santa Cruz Juliana in Crested Butte, and immediately fell in love. I bought the small and have been riding the crap out of it. But now I've lost that lovin' feeling and am looking for a new ride.

Lately, I realized how much the rear suspension was sucking out all my energy. I put on a RP23 rear shock and use it in the lock out position alot. I love the way it works, helps the climbing efficiency, but still gives me cush on the downhills. There's lots of lateral sway in the pivot area which gives it a loosey, goosey feeling. 

I also have a Fox 100mm on it now, which I love, but this bike is designed more for an 80mm. I feel it pushing more when I need to turn, and not as quick in the tight stuff. I see that Santa Cruz has redesigned the Juliana for 2007. It looks like the design will give it a stiffer ride (perhaps no more lateral play), and it would accommodate a 100mm fork better.

I've seen some comments here about people breaking their Julianas (!). This raises some concern over buying another one, although I've never broken mine. My husband did break his Superlight (after 5 yrs).

I would appreciate anyone's feedback or comments on their bikes and experiences. I have ridden the Titus RacerX (alum and a ti one), but just didn't jive with it. It was too stiff of a ride. I kept trying to make it work, but it wasn't happening for me.

Looking at the Ellsworth Truth, Juliana 2007, Turner Flux. Would love a Litespeed Sewanee, but they don't make them small enough. This would be for cross country riding and the occasional (1-2/yr) 50-65 mile race.
Thanks.


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## rocknrollbarbie (Dec 12, 2005)

Im 5'3" and I sold my Women's Specific Trek Fuel EX7 a few months ago. I really liked that bike... in fact I sorta miss it. It was just too small for me. The frame was a 15.5, and I ride a little longer bike than other women my height I think. But I would deffinitely reccomend it to any small woman looking for a good, all around cross country bike. I had a Reba fork on it, and it got about 4ish inches of travel. From the looks of the bikes on your list though, you might be wanting to spend more...


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## mbmojo (Aug 9, 2004)

I've been looking at a new bike for my 5' 2" wife and among those I'm looking at are the Yeti ASR-SL in XS (http://www.yeticycles.com/Bikes/BikesASR.cfm - the Yeti website hasn't been updated for '07) and the SC Blur XC (XS and S) as well as the 07 Juliana. The swingarm for the Juliana has been redesigned for 07 and now has replaceable dropouts which was one an issue in the past. The Titus RacerX is only available in 80mm travel models in XS.


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

chocolate girl said:


> I'm 5'2" and have been riding mtn bikes for 20yrs. The biggest challenge is getting a bike that works for me. 5 yrs ago, I rented a Santa Cruz Juliana in Crested Butte, and immediately fell in love. I bought the small and have been riding the crap out of it. But now I've lost that lovin' feeling and am looking for a new ride.
> 
> Lately, I realized how much the rear suspension was sucking out all my energy. I put on a RP23 rear shock and use it in the lock out position alot. I love the way it works, helps the climbing efficiency, but still gives me cush on the downhills. There's lots of lateral sway in the pivot area which gives it a loosey, goosey feeling.
> 
> ...


well, since you dis'ed my bike (hee hee j/k) i'm fresh out of ideas. have you tried the turner nitros? the people i know who have them love them....also designed for an 80 mm fork. and designed as an xc race bike so it might be stiff like the racerx.

if you want to keep the 100 mm fork maybe look at the Titus Motolite? it may give you something that the racerx didnt?

check to make sure the Ellsworth really does comes small enough. i know when i looked at them even the XS was too big.

rt


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## chocolate girl (Jan 5, 2005)

Thanks, rocknrollbarbie, stripes, mbmojo, and rt, for the comments. Keep 'em coming. I'm listening.


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

Did you try the Racer X 100 or the regular Racer X? There are two different models. That might be something to consider. Also, the Motolite is a great bike, maybe not quite for hardcore racing, but for both riding and racing, I think it's a great bike (it's weight would keep it from a pure race bike). Given what you would use it for, it might be the ticket. Both these bikes climb very well, that is their forte. If you are looking for the better descender, look at:

Turners are great bikes, too. The Flux is a nice compromise for weight and travel. It performs well as a trail bike and is a powerhouse on the downhills (but not a dh specific bike). Not as strong as the Titus' in the climbing category, but nothing to take lightly, either.

Don't know enough about Ellsworth to comment; they have a reputation of being difficult to deal with.

Santa Cruz has such a great niche for women with the Julianna, and they do a good job with a complete bike for the price, but if you already have the parts, you may want to look elsewhere. Although, if your first one fit you perfectly, you can't argue that. 

Which brings me to the most important issue. Which bike fits you the best? Afterall, we all know that 50-65 miles on an ill-fitting bike will make anyone lose the passion for the ride. The bikes you listed are all of good quality and I wouldn't say one was better than the rest.

PS. Have you looked at the Ibis Mojo? Super light, 5 inches of travel, efficient pedaling.


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## chocolate girl (Jan 5, 2005)

screampint said:


> Did you try the Racer X 100 or the regular Racer X? There are two different models. That might be something to consider. Also, the Motolite is a great bike, maybe not quite for hardcore racing, but for both riding and racing, I think it's a great bike (it's weight would keep it from a pure race bike). Given what you would use it for, it might be the ticket. Both these bikes climb very well, that is their forte. If you are looking for the better descender, look at:
> 
> Turners are great bikes, too. The Flux is a nice compromise for weight and travel. It performs well as a trail bike and is a powerhouse on the downhills (but not a dh specific bike). Not as strong as the Titus' in the climbing category, but nothing to take lightly, either.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback.
I've ridden both the 80 & 100 RacerX. 80 was too small, and the 100 was too big. As you said, the most important thing is fit. For some reason, I can't ever get comfy on any Titus I've tried. That's a red flag to me.

My husband has ridden his Superlight for over 5 yrs and was very happy with it. On a whim, he just got a RacerX and now I'm afraid he's going to leave me for the Titus .
He's found that perfect combo of bike fit and performance. So I suppose I'm now on that search.

The Ibis looks very intriguing.
I am interested in comments like "Ellsworth....reputation of being difficult to deal with." Not that I'm happy to hear of such a reputation, but things like that matter to me. Bike manufacturers need to know these things make a difference to us consumers and word gets around. Santa Cruz has been pretty easy to deal with for the most part with some of our past issues. Easy enough that I'd buy from them again.

Anybody ride an Ibis? The toptube reach is pushing it a bit for me, though.


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## wooglin (Jan 6, 2004)

chocolate girl said:


> Turner Flux


Do you know Scot Love? Would a small fit? Price is sure right.

http://home.bodbikegroup.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3422


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## dmarchy (Jan 17, 2006)

*Titus Sizeing*

I am a Titus Motolite owner, and a very satisfied one at that. However, titus generally has long top tube lenths in comparison to seatpost lenth. If you are Long Waisted, they usually fit very well, If on the other hand you are long in the legs and short in the torso or short waisted they tend to stretch you out a great deal. You can compensate with a shorter stem and sliding your saddle forward on the rails a smidge, but this alters the way the bike handles and feels. Good luck, bike fit and feel is a very personal thing and when you ride THE RIGHT ONE, you will know it instantly. Peace, and good bike fit grease!!!:thumbsup:


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

My wife is on a small Flux and she is 5'3". I also own a Flux and pedaling is very efficient with the rp3 set to full propedal and it is very plush when propedal is off on the downhills. It is a very laterally stiff frame. It also tends to have a lower standover than other frames such as Ellsworth which my wife likes because she has short legs. Most small frames were too tall for her. The Juliana is still a great ride though and I doubt someone your size would have durability issues unless you are really heavy or you take big drops. Good luck.


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## chocolate girl (Jan 5, 2005)

wooglin said:


> Do you know Scot Love? Would a small fit? Price is sure right.
> 
> http://home.bodbikegroup.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3422


Yea, we've left a couple messages, but no reply. Sherri took pics of them, looks like a nice setup. xsmall would be optimum.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Jamis's line is always good for smaller bikes, they go down to a 13" size.


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## ashwinearl (Jan 2, 2004)

My wife is 4'10.5" and just got an XXS racer X. It fits her well. The Small RacerX would probably fit you.

Give the DW-Link Iron Horse Azure 15" a consideration as well. The standover is great and the top tubes seem on the shortish side. I'm 5'4.5" and sized up to the 17"azure+short stem. 

The 15" has a 21.5" Effective top tube 

It's a tight tight bike and an incredible value in terms of the suspension technology you get for the amount paid. several hundered to $1000 less than the other bikes on your list.

The 2005 models are on closeout at Rscyle. The 2005 frame is identical to the 2006 frame which is only slightly different than the 2007 frames.

It might be more XC oriented than you want, but it is designed around a 100mm front shock and has 3.5" of rear travel that you definitely get all the use from.


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## Larry87 (Jul 5, 2005)

Have you checked out the Rocky Element? They make a 15' that may fit. www.bikes.com/bikes/2007/etsx/index.aspx


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## brg (Sep 7, 2004)

*custom?*

since you know what you like, what type of riding you like to do, you ride a lot and you know what fits - maybe you should go custom. it's definitely worth the $$ especially since you ride so much. (btw - I love all your trip posts and pics!)

I'm 4'10" and both my bikes have been custom.

Steel Dean hardtail - now converted to a 4x bike (I'll never buy from them again tho)
Seven Duo Ti FS - I LOVE this bike (would *definitely* buy from them again - maybe a road bike in the future)

Both these bikes fit me well and I can comfortably ride all day long on both of them.

next season I'm building up a custom super-duper blingy light weight SS.

I'm going to go with a local frame builder for this bike - so i'm looking at a couple of local frame builders - Waltworks or Black Sheep.

I'm with Stripes - I hate it when people suggest a "short stem" to make it fit.

good luck!


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

stripes said:


> I REALLY REALLY want that in the FAQ. :madmax: I hate hearing people suggest the shorter stem all the time for the wrong frame size. It totally screws with the handling and the spin (if you mess with the saddle adjustment.
> 
> I don't think I would have gone through so many bikes over the years if that wasn't suggested to me all the time.


I must say, once you have a bike custom fit and built for you, you have a hard time riding anything else. People who don't think it makes that much of a difference have no idea. Just the thought of "shorter stem" and "sliding the seat on the rails" makes me cringe! While these things aren't evil, they should be used for minor adjustments, not frame size adjustments!


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

brg said:


> Steel Dean hardtail - now converted to a 4x bike (I'll never buy from them again tho)!


have you and i talked about this? i have the same feeling about Dean!! 

rt


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## *rt* (Jan 15, 2004)

Larry87 said:


> Have you checked out the Rocky Element? They make a 15' that may fit. www.bikes.com/bikes/2007/etsx/index.aspx


my guess is that a 15" Rocky will be too big....it's also surprisingly hard to find Rockys here in the southeast. pretty bikes though. 

rt


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

*rt* said:


> my guess is that a 15" Rocky will be too big....it's also surprisingly hard to find Rockys here in the southeast. pretty bikes though.
> 
> rt


The 28.3" standover sure isn't much help for short people, women or otherwise... but Larry's a shill for RMB anyways so you can't really expect much from his posts.


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## chocolate girl (Jan 5, 2005)

Well, I have an XS Blur XC on the way. We'll see what happens.
Thanks for all the input!


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## JM01 (Mar 29, 2005)

chocolate girl said:


> Looking at the Ellsworth Truth, Juliana 2007, Turner Flux. Would love a Litespeed Sewanee, but they don't make them small enough. This would be for cross country riding and the occasional (1-2/yr) 50-65 mile race.
> Thanks.


Unlike my daughter, my wife is the reverse of what WSD bikes were designed for...She's 5'5" but has shorter legs and a longer torso and arms and is tough to fit on any kind of bike.

However, we finally found the perfect frame...a small Blur (17.1")...it has the perfect seat tube length, standover, but a longer top tube that gives her the "stretch" she needs.

Also, be carefull when checking out the Truth...the standover is fairly high (I think Ellsworth quotes the SO when the bike is sagged, which makes no sense)...I found this to be true with my Id.

But here's her fit on her Blur:


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## MTBmoose (Dec 31, 2003)

*Blur XC for shorter stature folks*

Well, my wife went from a small Juliana to an XS Blur XC and generally loves the ride. An extra inch of travel and even better standover on the Blur (1" better according to the website). She is 5'1" and rides mostly cross-country trails but really enjoys technical rocky sections. She noticed that the Blur XC does certainly climb better.

Hope the new ride works for you!

MTBmoose

P.S. - Standover height *is* important. Never let anyone tell you otherwise!



chocolate girl said:


> Well, I have an XS Blur XC on the way. We'll see what happens.
> Thanks for all the input!


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## mattKHS (Jul 10, 2005)

My wife is 5'3", and rides a "cute" small Rocky Mountain ESTX - 30. it is a pretty rockin ride for 4.5" of travel.


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2006)

*Hey Matt*



mattKHS said:


> My wife is 5'3", and rides a "cute" small Rocky Mountain ESTX - 30. it is a pretty rockin ride for 4.5" of travel.


Hey Matt, I recognized your name from the AZ forum. I'm looking for a new Bike for my girlfriend right now. She's 5'3" and we got suckered into buying a 13" Rockhopper, because it was on clearance, and it's just too small. Is you wife's bike a small men's? We went to one shop and she tried a 17" men's Rockhopper but the stand over was too high. And the women's small top tube was to short&#8230;and that's all they had.

So I'm thinking a men's small or a 16" frame&#8230;


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## JM01 (Mar 29, 2005)

CrazyEye said:


> Hey Matt, I recognized your name from the AZ forum. I'm looking for a new Bike for my girlfriend right now. She's 5'3" and we got suckered into buying a 13" Rockhopper, because it was on clearance, and it's just too small. Is you wife's bike a small men's? We went to one shop and she tried a 17" men's Rockhopper but the stand over was too high. And the women's small top tube was to short&#8230;and that's all they had.
> 
> So I'm thinking a men's small or a 16" frame&#8230;


take care with the fitting... WSD bikes are designed for the "average" women, as most have longer legs and shorter arms when compared to men...these bikes are designed to accomodate this.

My daughter rides a WSD Stumpjumper FSR and she tells me that this is her first bike that doesn't cause a sore back.

On the other hand, Mrs. M. has shorter legs and a longer torso so she needs a men's bike...she can't ride the FSR because her legs are too short


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## mattKHS (Jul 10, 2005)

CrazyEye said:


> Hey Matt, I recognized your name from the AZ forum. I'm looking for a new Bike for my girlfriend right now. She's 5'3" and we got suckered into buying a 13" Rockhopper, because it was on clearance, and it's just too small. Is you wife's bike a small men's? We went to one shop and she tried a 17" men's Rockhopper but the stand over was too high. And the women's small top tube was to short&#8230;and that's all they had.
> 
> So I'm thinking a men's small or a 16" frame&#8230;


She is riding a mens small (15"). She used to ride a small hard tail (also a men small 16"), but always had issues. The Top tube on that hard tail (a motobecane) was a 22.5", way too long for her.

Here is what we figured out. "average" women do have shorter torsos, as well as less natural arm strength. So on a standard small frame for a man, the top tube may be too long for her to control the bike or get back for down hills, as well as lift the front when needed.

Trek & Specialized do make women specific bikes as mentioned above, for their different body types.

Some manufacturers just happen to have smalls that work well. I would get her fit to find out her ideal seat tube height, and top tube length. I know my wifes Rocky Mountain is a 15" Seat tube, and a 20" Top Tube. Which is perfect for her 5' 3" self.


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## mattKHS (Jul 10, 2005)

check this out for some good geometry numbers:

http://bikes.com/bikes/2007/ladies_only/index.aspx

Its Rocky Mountains website. Their womens small slayer has a 21" TT, and their mens small slayer is exactly the same. So sometimes its just marketing, paint schemes or minor changes to parts, not the frame.

I know Performance sells Rocky Mtns. i think her bike is pretty solid. Although she does not ride it much, maybe once a month to Usery, or SOMO Desert Classic. She isnt in to biking as much as I am. Im just glad she rides every now and then.


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## mattKHS (Jul 10, 2005)

ohh, an I got her frame used (barely) off ebay for about $400, and built the rest up. I have under $800 into it, and a new full build would probably be closer to $1800. 

From what we have seen, used womens or small bikes seem to have less wear and tea than the average large framed bikes.


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## txjohng (Oct 12, 2006)

*Look at Junior bikes or Kid bikes*

You might find something there, my girlfriend shops in the junior at clothing stores ... and she always finds something.

I was goign to buy her a kid HT, but she wanted a comfort bike instead ...


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

txjohng said:


> You might find something there, my girlfriend shops in the junior at clothing stores ... and she always finds something.
> 
> I was goign to buy her a kid HT, but she wanted a comfort bike instead ...


If she wants heavy with cheap components, that would be the way to go. Not only that, but 24 inch wheels create a handicap on the obstacles, they don't roll as nicely over them. The OP is a bit more serious about cycling than what a pos bike can offer, she's been riding for 20 years and is just retiring a Santa Cruz Julianna.

I'm adding this last part because I re-read the post. How many times are we not listened to because we are women? "You've been riding for 20 years? You want to replace your Santa Cruz FS? Here, let's downgrade you, it's what I wanted to buy for my non-riding girlfriend..."

I'm definitely in a snarky mood today.


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## txjohng (Oct 12, 2006)

screampint said:


> How many times are we not listened to because we are women? "You've been riding for 20 years? You want to replace your Santa Cruz FS? Here, let's downgrade you, it's what I wanted to buy for my non-riding girlfriend..."
> 
> I'm definitely in a snarky mood today.


Humm, I really don't feel spanked. Yeah, she is a non rider, and I did a pretty poor job of reading the original post, but is it not because you are female. I wouldn't play that card, I'd play the one that said, hey this guy didn't read the post...my bad. And I think you misread my post too ...

" but she wanted a comfort bike instead" vs it's what I wanted to buy for my non-riding girlfriend 

it was what she wanted, and she's 5'1/2" ...


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## Bluebug32 (Jan 13, 2006)

I have short legs and arms and have had really good luck on Konas. Someone who's 5'2" directed me to them originally and I've never had a complaint.


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## chad1433 (Apr 5, 2004)

chocolate girl said:


> I am interested in comments like "Ellsworth....reputation of being difficult to deal with." Not that I'm happy to hear of such a reputation, but things like that matter to me. Bike manufacturers need to know these things make a difference to us consumers and word gets around.


They need to be qualified comments, though.

I'd suggest looking at Kona bikes. They run shorter in the TT than other manufacturers. If you want a custom bike, Titus is the way to go, I think, for FS, or maybe Ventana. They'll (Ventana) run just about any geometry you want in any frame type you want. They are also notoriously stiff, so if stiffness is what you want, Ventana is worth considering.


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## JM01 (Mar 29, 2005)

hmmm...my wife was looking at the Kona Lisa, but went with the Blur


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## cbharping (Mar 22, 2004)

Intense bikes also run shorter in the TT. I'm 5'4" and shorter in the torso, and my Intense has been the best fit yet!


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

chad1433 said:


> They need to be qualified comments, though.
> 
> I'd suggest looking at Kona bikes. They run shorter in the TT than other manufacturers. If you want a custom bike, Titus is the way to go, I think, for FS, or maybe Ventana. They'll (Ventana) run just about any geometry you want in any frame type you want. They are also notoriously stiff, so if stiffness is what you want, Ventana is worth considering.


Want qualified comments about ellsworth? MTBR's archives are FULL of them. Hell, there's lots of former dealers for them on here still (and I'm one of them) who can tell you about them.
If I had to choose between an Ellsworth for $10 and a Ventana for $1000, I'd take the ventana.


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## chocolate girl (Jan 5, 2005)

The Blur arrived in time for husband/mechanic to build it up for this wkd. Used everything off the Juliana, except front derailleur and seatpost (different size required). Its first ride was a true test for a bike, local trail in the North Georgia mountains. 27 miles of 90% singletrack, about 3800' of climbing and lots of long 2-3 mile downhills.
A big hinderance for my thorough enjoyment of the ride was the thick blanket of slippery leaves all over the trail. My riding always changes come November because of the terror of flying down a hill covered up in leaves hiding all the rocks and roots. All that to say, I didn't ride nearly as aggressive as I do springtime and summer.


I have to admit there wasn't an immediate noticeable difference. The ohhh, ahhh meter wasn't tipping too high. Since I was coming from a pretty nice ride already, I figured the changes would be more subtile. Give it time.

Either I was having an awesome day (unlikely) or I was finding myself climbing more in the middle ring...perhaps due to the bike's climbing efficiency? I wasn't constantly bailing down to spin in the small ring.

The downhills felt wonderful, very smooth, buttery, sofa ride. Don't feel all the chatter and little bumps. Yea, I could get used to this, especially on mile 40 of a 65mile endurance race.

Seemed to turn better, not dramatically better, but noticeable. Doesn't push near as much as the Juliana (but I did have a 100mm fork on a bike designed for an 80).
I think I could slowly learn to appreciate and enjoy this bike. It doesn't have the WOW factor I was hoping for; first impression is rather bland. But it's very very cush and climbs just fine.

The BIG problem was with the pedals hitting things. Half the time I wasn't pedaling, just cruising downhill and, BAM, I'd hit something, launching the bike. I'd look to see what huge boulder I'd just sliced by, but never could find anything bigger than a pea in the trail. What the heck is going on? It was getting annoying and unnerving. I wasn't bottoming out the shock, and figured it was set up okay. 120 lbs pressure (I weigh in at 118). I found myself really riding tentatively, terrified that I was going to get launched off the bike at any moment. This was NOT a good thing. I had the occasional pedal hit with the Juliana, but nothing even close to this.

I was pretty tired after our ride Saturday, so we went to a local trail Sunday to see what would happen with more pressure in the rear shock. 130 lbs pressure.
BAM, we hadn't even gotten 80 ft on the trail. A mile later, BAM, I was inches from a tree root. This is really making me mad.

A friend joined us that is getting ready to purchase the same, XS Blur. She's 5'1" and I wanted her to at least ride this one on a hometown trail. As I rode behind her, she'd holler out, "my pedal just hit something, did you hit anything?" I was riding her Juliana. "Nope, I didn't hit a thing." She must have hit something 6 different times. We're on an easy 4 mile loop.

I'm going to give it one more go with 135-140 lbs in the rear.

PS. Now that we've figured out what word to use in the search on the reviews, we're seeing this as an issue with many Blur owners. You never know what you're supposed to look for until AFTER you get the bike. Seems every bike has its issue, it's a matter of which one you want to tolerate. Jury's still out on whether I want to tolerate this one.


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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)

*Titus*

Titus makes great bikes for smaller riders. I have a friend who is 5 ft tall and rides a XS Moto-Lite. It's set up with a 90mm stem. The Racer X also has a Small and XS sizes, both of which may work.


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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)

*Pics*

Here's a pic of my friend's moto-lite.


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## yangpei (Apr 18, 2004)

*Also look at Ventana*

The Ventana X-5 also has a really low standover for a 5 inch FS bike. Here's a pic.


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## brg (Sep 7, 2004)

*uh....did you read the thread?*



yangpei said:


> Titus makes great bikes for smaller riders. I have a friend who is 5 ft tall and rides a XS Moto-Lite. It's set up with a 90mm stem. The Racer X also has a Small and XS sizes, both of which may work.


The OP said she has tried the Titus and they didn't speak to her. Plus, she's already bought a new bike.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

BAM... the curse of bike companies who insist on putting "low" BB heights on XC bikes, without any real consideration to things like, SAG. For example... 15 years ago, trek spec'ed their 9000/9500 beam bikes with 3" of travel and 11.5" BB height (same as a HARDTAIL would have). Now the bikes back then were supposed to be setup without sag, but still, its not rocket science to figure out that with the BB height being measured from the ground to the center of the BB spindle, and the crank arms being measured from the center of the spindle interface to the center of the pedal axle, and 7" being the average length, that 4.5" of clearance might be fine with a hardtail, but it was NOT fine with a bike whose rear end compressed 3". 

How's this relate to your blur? According to SC, the geometry lists the BB height at 12.6" for the Blur XC in X-SM and SM sizes, and 12.8" in M and L sizes. Now with the frames having 4.5" of rear wheel travel, even compressing the shock only 2/3 of the way is gonna take your normal 5.6" of clearance (and that's to the SPINDLE center, the pedal bodies are obviously taking a half inch off the clearance as well) and reduce it to only a couple inches, which accounts for your whacking your pedals into such small roots/rocks. If you should ever actually bottom it, then you're launching for sure, because the pedal bodies are not likely to have more than a fraction of an inch (probably HALF an inch at most) to spare, and that's assuming you run your tires SOOOO high in pressure that they don't compress at all themselves. Now throw shock sag into the mix for example, and you're really screwed. Most manufacturers call for around 20% sag in the shock setup instructions for their XC frames, which means, you're loosing almost an inch of precious clearance the moment you sit on the bike. As to why the Julianna isn't smacking pedals on the same stuff, my guess would be that the actual BB height on them is higher than the Blur's got and/or that with less rear travel, they won't compress as far for a similar shock pressure setup because the leverage ratio on the shock is lower. 

My Amp B-3, which is a NINE year old frame, has 3" of travel, and 13.75" BB height, with the same length fork that the blur geometry lists using, and my newer 2006 Eclipse Kinetic FS with 3.6" of travel, has a 13.25" BB height, with the same fork as the Amp, and virtually identical casing height tires. In other words... Santa Cruz just doesn't seem to understand how to design suspension frame geometry anymore. Low BB heights might make for a lower center of gravity and agile handling for "smooth" trails but its not much use for actually riding anything with rocks and roots and bumps. Maybe they outta stop designing for california stuff. I find it amusing that the Blur LT, which only has 15mm more rear travel, has 18mm more BB height, which still isn't all that much for a 5.1" travel frame.

PS.... i'd suggest you measure your actual bike's BB height (level ground to center of BB spindle/crank bolt) and compare to your friends Julianna. If you both have the same size tires, forks, and crank lengths, then you'll be able to compare why one's smacking and the other isn't by checking the measurements.


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## JM01 (Mar 29, 2005)

nice bike, congrats

My wife uses a shorter crank (175mm?) on her Blur and sets her shock at about 165#, giving her about 1/4" of sag, and has a fairly stiff rebound.

But she too noticed how much better the Blur climbs and the stability on the downhills...we're now looking at an '07 VP Free


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## chocolate girl (Jan 5, 2005)

Thanks DeeEight for the input. Yes, we spent hours in the garage that night measuring BB height in all the different positions (no air, w/sag, halfway travel) on the Blur and versus my husband's RacerX so that we could get a real understanding of just what was going on. Unfortunately, my Juliana is in stripped shape, but we obviously have the specs. 

The suspension design VPP on the Blur actually moves the rider and pedals in a down & forward motion, while the Titus and Juliana move just downward. So just comparing the design difference explained a little of why I was slamming into things while not pedaling, because the bike was moving me forward into them.

With the Juliana, I did have trouble with the pedals ocassionally hitting things, which we resolved first with bigger tires to raise the bike up. Then we put a Fox100 on the front and that took care of it without having to run the big tires. My Juliana has a lower BB than my Blur, and yet the Blur slams the pedals. Which is why I tend to subscribe to the theory that it's the suspension design that lends itself to slamming pedals in the smaller frames.

I broke a major rule in buying this frame: Always ride a bike before you buy.
But for little people, this is a problem. Bike shops don't want to carry little frames that they can't unload (owner told me himself) just so you can try it out. 
Many of you have suggested frames I would like to consider, but just can't get my hands on (without spending money to travel across the country), the Yeti, for instance.

For those that have come in during intermission: 
I HAVE tried the TITUS RacerX and MotoLite. MotoLite is too heavy. RacerX is too harsh. But at this point, I'm almost ready to buy one just to make everybody happy.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Iron Horse maybe? Their DW-linked bikes are well reviewed and I don't remember pedal smacking coming up in any of the magazine tests. Jamis's 2007 Dakar's have been revised and the XC ones are now lighter than before, better standover, and being single-pivot linkages, aren't gonna do anything different than the julianna as far as BB motion during compression goes.


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## KgB (Jan 13, 2004)

*maybe this has been discussed*

but this is a long thread and my eyes started to glaze over.
Rocky Mountains generally have short toptubes and high bottom brackets.
Not to mention the fact that they build their own bikes which is kind of rare these days.
http://bikes.com/index.aspx

BTW you should have no problem getting your money back out of your SC.


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## integral (May 12, 2006)

I had the same pedal strike issue with my Blur. I fitted a 130mm Vanilla fork to it and now the problem has disappeared. I love the bike now. Give it a try.


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## Lucky (Jan 12, 2004)

chocolate girl said:


> I bought the small and have been riding the crap out of it. But now I've lost that lovin' feeling and am looking for a new ride.
> 
> There's lots of lateral sway in the pivot area which gives it a loosey, goosey feeling.


Did it always have that loosey-goosey feeling in the rear triangle? If not, check the pivots and shock mountings for wear. Even if you still want a new bike, you might be able to improve the ride for the short term (while you shop) with very little cash.

If I were in the market for a racy bike today, I would definitely check out the Iron Horse Azure. I have the longer travel version, the Hollowpoint (5" front and rear), and love it for all-purpose riding. It pedals very well for a plush bike, and I can climb anything on it that I can on my Racer X, which is about 3-4 lbs lighter. The DW linkage design gives a minimal-bob ride without a stable-platform type shock, so you still get great small-bump sensitivity. I got a short test-ride on an Azure this summer, and really liked it. Unfortunately, I don't know off-hand what their smallest size is. It's worth a peek.

Kathy :^)


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## chocolate girl (Jan 5, 2005)

Good point, Lucky. My husband is great to keep up with all that sort of thing and he changes every bushing, etc that needs to be tended to keeping my rides in tip top shape. By putting the RP23 rear shock on the Juliana, it helped things tremendously, but this design simply has alot of lateral play. The new 07 Juliana design looks to be a much stiffer rear end. 

I've decided to be more tolerant and ride the Blur for a while. Rode this wkd with *rt* in Tennessee, and enjoyed the Blur immensely. It downhills like a dream, so plush, you don't even notice the boulders you're bombing over. 

I'm running 140 lbs pressure in the rear (I weigh in at 118lbs), which seems to help the pedal strikes, but still gives more than ample cush in the ride. I'm thinking I may end up falling in love afterall.


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## MTBmoose (Dec 31, 2003)

*Shock pressure for XS Blur*

Chocolate Girl,
One thing I should have added to this thread a long time ago is that the Blur XC has slightly different shock leverage ratios for the XS and S size compared to the M and L sizes. I inquired about this when I purchased my wife's XS frame. To achieve the same travel on those two small frame sizes, they had to alter the design slightly, modifying the rear suspension leverage ratio. What this means in terms of setup, is that while the M and L frames require something around 1:1 body weight to shock pressure (RP23), the XS and S size frames are more like 1:1.15 or 2. For your body weight (118?), something close to 140 should be about right for the shock pressure.

I inquired about this because my wife originally had a Juliana in the smallest frame size. While the Santa Cruz website at the time (~3 years ago) advertised the bike as 4" of rear wheel travel, it was actually 3" for the two smaller frame sizes. Not sure if this has changed with this year's redesign of the Juliana/Superlight frames. At any rate, the answer came back that the Blur XC is indeed 115M of rear wheel travel for all frame sizes but that the two smaller size frames use a different leverage ratio on the suspension and required a little more air in the shock to get the sag dialed in correctly.

The different leverage ratio translates into a different shock stroke for the XS and S sizes. For a comparison of the shock strokes for the different size frames, check out:

http://www.santacruzbikes.co.uk/bicycles/faqs/blurxc.html

(1.5" stroke for the XS and S, 2" for M and L)

If you look at the recommended sag on the Fox website for these two strokes, you will find that the 1.5" shock sag should be 3/8" while the 2" stroke shock should be 0.5". The Fox tech website is here:

http://www.foxracingshox.com/fox_tech_center/index.htm

At any rate, I hope you are enjoying the ride. You might experiment a little more with shock pressure now that the shock is a little worn in. They tend to be a little stiff for the first few rides, so setting sag can be a little tricky. This has been the case for me with my original Blur, my new BlurLT and my wife's BlurXC.

Take care,

mtbmoose



chocolate girl said:


> Good point, Lucky. My husband is great to keep up with all that sort of thing and he changes every bushing, etc that needs to be tended to keeping my rides in tip top shape. By putting the RP23 rear shock on the Juliana, it helped things tremendously, but this design simply has alot of lateral play. The new 07 Juliana design looks to be a much stiffer rear end.
> 
> I've decided to be more tolerant and ride the Blur for a while. Rode this wkd with *rt* in Tennessee, and enjoyed the Blur immensely. It downhills like a dream, so plush, you don't even notice the boulders you're bombing over.
> 
> I'm running 140 lbs pressure in the rear (I weigh in at 118lbs), which seems to help the pedal strikes, but still gives more than ample cush in the ride. I'm thinking I may end up falling in love afterall.


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## Kriz (Jan 20, 2004)

*May be looking for a new bike*

My Titus Locomoto XS was a wonderful bike and now that I read the comments, yes, it might have been a little long in the top tube. We just noticed it is missing from the garage. Someone broke in and got my son's snowboard too.

This gives me ideas at what to look for again. I've agonized in the past over buying a good bike for my little bod. For good reason I think. But my tastes run a bit rich now. I'm not sure I ride often enough these days to justify it. On the other hand there's nothing like a new bike to light the fires of passion again.


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