# OT: 2011 Subaru WRX



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

I've never really driven any Subarus but I got to try this one for a couple of days. It is $25k, has the STI wide body and 265 hp.

I've driven quite a few cars with 300 hp but I've never driven one this fast. It is just unbelievable with 0-60 in 4.7 seconds according to Car and Driver. It's even faster than the STI.

Derek and I call this car the whiplash car. It hits and corners that hard! Cool thing is it's got a lot of suspension travel so it is not harsh.

Now there's a lot of cheap parts in the interior, specially the radio. but when you get past 3000 rpm, all is forgiven.

Btw, I try to drive safe even when testing a car. I have a spotless driving record and I try to envision my wife is roadbiking in front of me when I'm on a mountain road. Cause she might be! That being said, this car is too fast for me. I'm trying to get a Golf Diesel!

The Subaru engine sounds funny. Plus it makes this whining noise every few seconds.


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

Thanks Francis - my brother and I had a lengthy conversation about this car a couple nights ago (all positive).


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## shredchic (Jun 18, 2007)

Suh-weeeet! I love that funny Subaru engine noise & the air filter whine. Still totally in love with my 2004 wrx, which is only 227 hp. Subies definitely don't waste money on such un-necessary things like radios and engine sound dampeners,  but you get great performance for the money. I'm glad you can still fit a bike in the back!


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## the.vault (Oct 11, 2006)

That looks mean.

Do you get same the bro-deal on test cars that you do on test bikes? Are you going to trade in the mini or just post testing updates every couple hours for the next week?


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## DCTILLER (Aug 18, 2010)

*Subaru*

PERFECT vehicle for roads like highland and mines!


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

I have two Subaru's. Love em both. Might buy a third (Outback) to haul the kiddo and gear now but I might just buy a rocket box for the roof of my WRX wagon. One of my favorite memories in the wagon was heading up to Tahoe, loaded down with camping gear, two bikes on the roof and watching the frustration on the face of a Boxster owner who couldn't shake me up the hill


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## urban turban (Dec 15, 2009)

I have the 2009 WRX, and I have very little to complain about. The ride is smooth for my daily commute to work, it handles all of my bike gear, and the car is so much fun to drive. The backseat is a little small for three full grown adults, but I don't want three people back there ruining my handling and fuel consumption! 

I commute mostly on the freeway and I average 25.5 mpg. It used to hover around 27 mpg when I didn't have the roof rack. As long as you keep it under 3,000 rpm it drives like a 4 cylinder. Above 3,000 is a different story.










If you are interested in buying one, do *NOT* go to the Subaru dealership on Stevens Creek. I had a terrible experience with them. They quoted me a very low price over the phone which no other dealership could match, and then proceeded to try to negotiate up once I came in to buy. I could write a whole lot more about the tricks they play, but their yelp page is proof enough. Steer clear! https://www.yelp.com/biz/stevens-creek-subaru-san-jose


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## North* Dher (Apr 28, 2009)

That funny noise is the A/C compressor clicking on and off. You can see it spin in the video.

Bad A$$ car though


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

Have a 05 Legacy sedan, love it. Thinking about an Outback Sport or Forester next. Need a little more room and the ability to fit a bike box in the car, my biggest pet peeve about my Legacy is the lack of folding seats. My basic auto has been so fun to drive, handles dirt roads and bad weather like a dream too! It'd be hard to go to any other brand.....


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

urban turban said:


> I have the 2009 WRX, and I have very little to complain about. The ride is smooth for my daily commute to work, it handles all of my bike gear, and the car is so much fun to drive. The backseat is a little small for three full grown adults, but I don't want three people back there ruining my handling and fuel consumption!
> 
> I commute mostly on the freeway and I average 25.5 mpg. It used to hover around 27 mpg when I didn't have the roof rack. As long as you keep it under 3,000 rpm it drives like a 4 cylinder. Above 3,000 is a different story.
> 
> ...


In the Subaru community Steven's Creek Subaru is basically considered the devil. I would never go there.


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## urban turban (Dec 15, 2009)

Also, once my warranty is up, upgrading to stage 2 looks very tempting.

For $450, you can buy a ERZ downpipe, Tactrix cable and open source tune. Power rises from 225 whp to 300 whp.


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## wg (Dec 20, 2003)

My wife's car is a first generation WRX. Still a blast to drive. High speed silliness in corners and accelrates plenty quick. Not as fast as current models but I don't think I want to go faster.


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## ctripi (Jul 6, 2009)

Noah. Get a used legacy wagon. Not much difference between an outback and legacy wagon except cost and 1" of ground clearance.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

North* Dher said:


> That funny noise is the A/C compressor clicking on and off. You can see it spin in the video.
> 
> Bad A$$ car though


Good intel. I thought it was the Mad Max blower.

I'm now a believer that it's not the horsepower, it's the delivery!

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

nachomc said:


> In the Subaru community Steven's Creek Subaru is basically considered the devil. I would never go there.


I don't get it. I thought Midpen is the devil. Could there be two?

fc


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## JoeBMX (Apr 7, 2007)

Track Masters Racing is holding a track day on the 20th at Infineon Raceway. Could be a blast to open the car up.


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## Larry_flint (Jul 7, 2010)

The Suby is a good car for the cash. I have had some student with them in the past.
This is me 



 in my Audi at Sears Point on 10/31/10. The Audi club had a 2 day driver education school (No racing).


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## shredchic (Jun 18, 2007)

Larry_flint said:


> The Suby is a good car for the cash. I have had some student with them in the past.
> This is me
> 
> 
> ...


Nice... as subie owner, I have a bit of Audi-envy. That is one sweet-driving car (and I only drove the A4). Although, the subie doesn't mind driving on dirt roads, and getting my muddy bike gear all over it. I'd feel guilty about messing up the Audi.


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## JoeBMX (Apr 7, 2007)

Larry_flint said:


> The Suby is a good car for the cash. I have had some student with them in the past.
> This is me
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice. Guessing you're an instructor? Audi Club only?

Heh. Here's my track day at Sears in my meager little Cobalt. 



 (figured I link to the Suby part  )


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## Larry_flint (Jul 7, 2010)

JoeBMX said:


> Very nice. Guessing you're an instructor? Audi Club only?
> 
> Heh. Here's my track day at Sears in my meager little Cobalt.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Yes, and No.

I also instruct for Hooked on Driving, TEAM, and others. I have done some NASA days as well. HPDE 4.

Jeff


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## Obi (Oct 16, 2005)

Guys..

Stereo Solution: http://www.autosoundspecialists.com/ Talk w/ Kenny or Jim, tell them Shane sent you in.

Performance Handling: http://www.gstmotorsports.com/home/

Both are a hop, skip, and jump less than a mile from each other.

Both will seriously make your grin huge. :thumbsup:


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

One thing great about this car is it really needs no performance mods. The engine is a monster and the torque pulls early and holds it. The suspension is a thing of beauty. It is so poised and it is just hard to unsettle it. It's got a lot of travel so it gobbles up bumpy corners. And finally the 4wd is just art. On a wet mountain road, this is your friend.

After driving it a bit, I realized you can get on the gas pretty early. Normally, you have to wait for the exit of the turn before you can deliver the power. On this one, you can get on it a couple of ticks early, the power comes in an even guides the car out of the turn. Addicting.

I would not upgrade the suspension or engine of this car. Unless, you are a pro, you are more likely to screw up the balance of this system.

Finally, it's not all good. The interior is crap as Hyundai's and Kia's are better. As good as tht GTI interior and radio is, this one is that bad. 5-speed tranny... sucks. The steering is a little loose. It is nowhere like a Cooper or Audi. But it's probably good for dirt roads 

fc


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I have a wrx and its tons of fun. The wrxs are not as fast as the stis though, the wrx outruns the sti 0-60 because the sti has to shift once during the dash, but the sti has much better top-end. The impressive numbers are also a result of revving high and "dropping" the clutch, the wheels dont spin due to awd, and you rocket forward. Fast, but those numbers are very hard on the car and not necessarily indicitive of real world performance/passing. That all said, they are very fun cars.


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## grrrah (Mar 26, 2004)

I've got an '03 and it won't be my last.


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## gurp (Jan 20, 2004)

francois said:


> The suspension is a thing of beauty. It is so poised and it is just hard to unsettle it. It's got a lot of travel so it gobbles up bumpy corners.
> 
> I would not upgrade the suspension or engine of this car. Unless, you are a pro, you are more likely to screw up the balance of this system.
> 
> fc


If you like the suspension now, you should try one that's been upgraded to get rid of all that sway and understeer 

Love my 07 WRX, getting tempted by the current trade in program to get an STI special edition.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

gurp said:


> If you like the suspension now, you should try one that's been upgraded to get rid of all that sway and understeer
> 
> Love my 07 WRX, getting tempted by the current trade in program to get an STI special edition.


That's the thing... there is no sway. There is no understeer. And the thing is comfortable! Great tires too. I think they use old STI suspension on this car.

All the cars I own have upgraded suspension. It's easy to screw up the ride IMHO. I'm sure the WRX can be improved, specially for the track.

But indeed the best upgrade in general is a bigger rear swaybar. It reduces the normal understeer programmed into cars for lame drivers.

fc


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## gurp (Jan 20, 2004)

francois said:


> That's the thing... there is no sway. There is no understeer.
> fc


You're not pushing it hard enough


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Nice. What is with the coke-snorting hood scoop, tho? Subies are looking better, but IMO they need to go with some cleaner lines.


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## shredchic (Jun 18, 2007)

The hood scoop is functional - it's not just an ornament. It goes to the intercooler for the engine. But, yeah, it probably has an effect on the aerodynamics. The 2011 scoop seems much more low profile than on my 2004.


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## Captain Cobb (Mar 23, 2010)

shredchic said:


> The hood scoop is functional - it's not just an ornament. It goes to the intercooler for the engine. But, yeah, it probably has an effect on the aerodynamics. The 2011 scoop seems much more low profile than on my 2004.


Shredchic is your sub a blue wagon? I think I've seen it parked in boggs before. "not being nosey, you just notice that kind of thing when you live in a small town like Cobb" conditions sure are sweet in there right now!!


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## Spokeman (Sep 4, 2007)

Thanks for the review, I just bought one of those bad boys, WRX 2011 Satan White Pearl color, hatch back. Only problem is I had to special order it, still waiting but it will be worth the wait. Hope to get it by end of this month or beg. Dec. So stoked on the photo you took with the bike in it! Was not sure if I could get my bike in but now I know


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

francois said:


> That's the thing... there is no sway. There is no understeer. And the thing is comfortable! Great tires too. I think they use old STI suspension on this car.
> 
> All the cars I own have upgraded suspension. It's easy to screw up the ride IMHO. I'm sure the WRX can be improved, specially for the track.
> 
> ...


Not really, the engine location creates an unrdersteer condition. It can be countered, but its always present when the car is pushed to the limits. The 2009 wrxs were stiffened up, and the new ones have a wider track, but its not an sti, with sti anti-sways, aluminum parts, better shocks, and so on (there are still a lot of differences).

The 08s were a bit lame, but otherwise the other years are pretty good.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

francois said:


> And finally the 4wd is just art. On a wet mountain road, this is your friend.


Take it to the snow. I've driven over unplowed roads with inches of snow on the ground on summer tires with zero problem. The AWD system with LSD in the rear is amazing.


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## redmr2_man (Jun 10, 2008)

friends 06 wrx got stuck on an unplowed road near south lake tahoe. Like...4? inches of snow on the ground. Going up a hill, it was juuuust starting to plow it when he got stuck.

The dodge driver that towed him out said...

"legendary subaru awd huh?"

i laughed my ass off!


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## sactojesse (Apr 19, 2004)

Nice! If something ever happens to my Legacy GT wagon, I'll probably have to get a WRX 5-door since Subaru stopped making Legacy wagons a few years ago in favor of the jacked-up Outback. :madman:

Good to know that a bike fits w/ the front wheel turned. The difference is I can get a six-foot plus bike into the back of my wagon w/ the wheel straight.


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

I'm seriously eying the WRX STI for my next car. The performance and HP is very impressive, but I also think the price tag is pushing luxury sedan, or used Porsche 911 range. Not that $35 - 40K is unreasonable for the performance and handling you are getting, it's just a little hard to spend that kind of money when my price range is realistically in the mid $20s. I'll be looking for low mileage used for sure.

My wife drives a 4 cylinder outback and it is the most gutless car (to the point of frustration when you need to get out in front or pass) I have ever been in. It's reliable though and just unreal in snow or off-road. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Subaru, especially one that can more than get out of its own way.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

redmr2_man said:


> friends 06 wrx got stuck on an unplowed road near south lake tahoe. Like...4? inches of snow on the ground. Going up a hill, it was juuuust starting to plow it when he got stuck.
> 
> The dodge driver that towed him out said...
> 
> ...


We had to get our 4-runner towed out by a subaru legacy one time near Kirkwood. The "4wd" system on the 4-runner at the time simply sent the most power to the wheel with the least traction, horrible.

One thing though, if you have street performance tires on your WRX/STI, it ain't going to do very well in snow. Tires make a huge difference. It's also easy to over-power your traction with the HP/turbo. Otherwise there's just knowing how to drive and techniques associated with snow-driving.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

isleblue65 said:


> I'm seriously eying the WRX STI for my next car. The performance and HP is very impressive, but I also think the price tag is pushing luxury sedan, or used Porsche 911 range. Not that $35 - 40K is unreasonable for the performance and handling you are getting, it's just a little hard to spend that kind of money when my price range is realistically in the mid $20s. I'll be looking for low mileage used for sure.
> 
> My wife drives a 4 cylinder outback and it is the most gutless car (to the point of frustration when you need to get out in front or pass) I have ever been in. It's reliable though and just unreal in snow or off-road. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Subaru, especially one that can more than get out of its own way.


Yep, that's why the standard WRX is special. It gets you the most awesome performance in the $25k range. The other contenders are the Mazadaspeed 5 which is a rocket but is really flawed in 2wd form.

The STI is expensive. And now the WRX has closed the gap with the identical flared out body.

The new 4-cyclinder Outback is so slow it's funny. You can't get into trouble in harsh weather. But you can't accelerate out of trouble either.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Spokeman said:


> Thanks for the review, I just bought one of those bad boys, WRX 2011 Satan White Pearl color, hatch back. Only problem is I had to special order it, still waiting but it will be worth the wait. Hope to get it by end of this month or beg. Dec. So stoked on the photo you took with the bike in it! Was not sure if I could get my bike in but now I know


Lucky!!!! Any good deals out there?

That bike is a 16 inch Kona btw. But I didn't have to push the front passenger seat forward.

fc


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## sactojesse (Apr 19, 2004)

Jayem said:


> One thing though, if you have street performance tires on your WRX/STI, it ain't going to do very well in snow. Tires make a huge difference.


Agreed. Summer tires and AWD aren't that great on snow. You need, at a minimum, all-season (M + S rated) tires.


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## urban turban (Dec 15, 2009)

francois said:


> Yep, that's why the standard WRX is special. It gets you the most awesome performance in the $25k range. The other contenders are the Mazadaspeed 5 which is a rocket but is really flawed in 2wd form.
> 
> The STI is expensive. And now the WRX has closed the gap with the identical flared out body.
> 
> fc


To add to this, the WRX is more comfortable to drive in every day conditions than the STI due to the 5 speed transmission and softer suspension. I do like the look of the wide body, but I'm happy with my 2009's more professional, subdued, and cop-friendly look. I believe 2012 will bring a complete redesign for the Imprezas, so if you are on the fence about the purchase, you may want to wait.

It's also important to look at the obvious contender in this space, the Lancer Ralliart. At the time I was buying, Mitsu only offered a dual-clutch gearbox with the paddle shifters and that was a big turn off for me. I also wanted the convenience that the WRX hatchback offers. However, rumors were going around that the 2011 Ralliart now offers a standard 5 speed manual transmission. I'll take the jellybean WRX over the Lancer Sportback any day.


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## Spokeman (Sep 4, 2007)

francois said:


> Lucky!!!! Any good deals out there?
> 
> That bike is a 16 inch Kona btw. But I didn't have to push the front passenger seat forward.
> 
> fc


I think I did ok, I bought the limited, leather and HID Lights, total out the door, tax, etc.. $30,100. Bought it at Capitol Subaru, they are great to deal with. It's $800 below invoice. Still alot of $$ but I went for it, should do all I want it to do and then some! Yeah I'm going to have to get the rack on top for hauling the bikes, I ride 20 in. bikes. I can't wait for this it's killing me! :madman:


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

How much is insurance on a WRX or STI for 6mos?

For the outback, the XT is a decent option when power is preferred.


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## shredchic (Jun 18, 2007)

Captain Cobb said:


> Shredchic is your sub a blue wagon? I think I've seen it parked in boggs before. "not being nosey, you just notice that kind of thing when you live in a small town like Cobb" conditions sure are sweet in there right now!!


Yeah, I know - the town is so small, lol - that's most likely me  I wonder if we've even run into each other on the trails before? I have a Ibis mojo, black, and briefly struggled up a fireroad alongside another rider last weekend. Beautiful weather this weekend, sunny with the wind blowing through the trees. I feel silly asking everyone I meet on the trails what their mtbr handle is, but probably should, lol.


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

I wonder how the WRX handling is compared to STi? Lots of power/ torque with cushy body roll and understeer would lose the point, though I'm sure it's not that bad. 

Spokeman, do you have a photo of your new ride? I'd like to see it!


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## BrownLefty (Jul 24, 2008)

rensho said:


> How much is insurance on a WRX or STI for 6mos?
> 
> For the outback, the XT is a decent option when power is preferred.


2010 WRX, 22 Male, Roseville, 1 speeding ticket, $1000 deductible

$950 for 6 months


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## Spokeman (Sep 4, 2007)

isleblue65 said:


> I wonder how the WRX handling is compared to STi? Lots of power/ torque with cushy body roll and understeer would lose the point, though I'm sure it's not that bad.
> 
> Spokeman, do you have a photo of your new ride? I'd like to see it!


I test drove the STI and WRX. STI has a "harsher ride" more rally car/race car feel, I liked the STI but could not justify the price. WRX feels more driveable all around everyday car which is what suits me more. I don't have the car yet, it's being built to my spec. with the options I wanted, short throw shifter, all weather floor mats, SPC turbo boost gauge, and car cover. I'm thinking I should add the SPT Exhaust, the sound is incredible with this exhaust maybe add this later. I will post pics as soon as I get this bad boy.


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

It’s just too bad they redesigned the newer Subarus to look like the Ford Focus, just looks like every other hatchback out there now. I preferred the lines of the older generation Subarus.


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

I was looking at used G35's as a "work" car... Now I have to add a new WRX to the list... Sub 5 sec to 60 for $25k? That's just crazy!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

rensho said:


> How much is insurance on a WRX or STI for 6mos?
> 
> For the outback, the XT is a decent option when power is preferred.


My insurance thinks my impreza wrx wagon is an "impreza wagon", so it's not very expensive (even though they full well know it's the wrx). Sti would be more I'm sure.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Spokeman said:


> I'm thinking I should add the SPT Exhaust, the sound is incredible with this exhaust maybe add this later. I will post pics as soon as I get this bad boy.


Hold off on that, there are usually much better exhausts out there, plus if you aren't doing a downpipe+full exhaust, it's not really doing anything for you (other than sounding different). A turbo-back exhaust can mean some pretty impressive gains in a turbo car, not that you have to program to take advantage of them, but doing the "axle back" or even "cat back" exhaust doesn't really have much of an effect.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

flipnidaho said:


> I was looking at used G35's as a "work" car... Now I have to add a new WRX to the list... Sub 5 sec to 60 for $25k? That's just crazy!


Hey, you don't work!

The G35 is very good but it's way different. It's much different as it's much heavier and has a way better interior. But for driveablility and utility, the WRX will win. Doesn't it snow over there?

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Jayem said:


> Hold off on that, there are usually much better exhausts out there, plus if you aren't doing a downpipe+full exhaust, it's not really doing anything for you (other than sounding different). A turbo-back exhaust can mean some pretty impressive gains in a turbo car, not that you have to program to take advantage of them, but doing the "axle back" or even "cat back" exhaust doesn't really have much of an effect.


Yeah, the stock one is really good. And as cat back exhaust upgrades are half appearance mods too, you can't get any better looking than the stock one.

fc


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## kev1n (Oct 7, 2005)

Insurance is pretty reasonable. 32 y/o male in redwood city, $500 for 6 months, fully insured.


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## Lowball (Sep 1, 2006)

It's hard to let go...

I still have my 02 wagon that I got brand new back in the day. Love it!

Got it for snow use but then got a 4wd vehicle thru work and the wagon became track car.

Haven't done may track days lately and the car is getting dusty and sitting on a battery charger...but it's still awesome!


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## Spokeman (Sep 4, 2007)

Jayem said:


> Hold off on that, there are usually much better exhausts out there, plus if you aren't doing a downpipe+full exhaust, it's not really doing anything for you (other than sounding different). A turbo-back exhaust can mean some pretty impressive gains in a turbo car, not that you have to program to take advantage of them, but doing the "axle back" or even "cat back" exhaust doesn't really have much of an effect.


Excellent information, thank you!


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

Lowball said:


> It's hard to let go...
> 
> I still have my 02 wagon that I got brand new back in the day. Love it!
> 
> ...


Poor Ferrari :lol:


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## grrrah (Mar 26, 2004)

rensho said:


> How much is insurance on a WRX or STI for 6mos?
> 
> For the outback, the XT is a decent option when power is preferred.


for my '03, good driving record, $360/6 months. If I recall, it was around $600/6 months when new, and has slowly gone down since.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

I think I know why the WRX outaccelerates the STI to 60mph. It's because it is a 5-speed and requires one less shift to that speed.

It is ironic that the the best upgrade (6-speed) harms it in the most often used metric.

What about American cars? If you wanted to support American automakers, what's out there in the peer group of the WRX?

fc


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## urban turban (Dec 15, 2009)

You are correct on the reason for the faster 0-60 times Francis. As Jayem had mentioned in post #24, the STI has to get to third gear to achieve 60mph.

The 2011 Camaro 1SS is a close contender. It was a couple seconds faster than the STI around the Top Gear track and Chevy claims 16/24 mpg. That's $31K without options. The Roush Mustang is about as fast as the Camaro too.

There is also the Ford Focus RS which of course has not made it to the states. It is slower than the STI, and also costs around $38K. It's also GREEN.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

francois said:


> I think I know why the WRX outaccelerates the STI to 60mph. It's because it is a 5-speed and requires one less shift to that speed.
> 
> It is ironic that the the best upgrade (6-speed) harms it in the most often used metric.
> 
> ...


Yeah, mentioned that earlier. The STI is definitely faster in all other situations, with better brakes and transmission (and lots of other bits) to handle the power. The sub-5 second 0-60 dashes are also very bad for the car, worse than with other autos that have more power, because they involve reving real high and then "dropping" the clutch. Due to the AWD, it won't really spin, but it ain't good for the car. Other cars that have more HP will accelerate faster once they've sped up a bit, but they may not make it to 60 as fast because the WRX gets more of a "head start". Be wary of the 0-60 numbers though.

I don't know if there is ANY american "peer" in the US. Ford and others sell rally-inspired cars abroad, but not here. Hard to find something that is really similer, except for the Lancer and mazdaspeed3 (but no AWD). The real question might be, what cars wouldn't be a step-down in terms of handling and performance?


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

francois said:


> I think I know why the WRX outaccelerates the STI to 60mph. It's because it is a 5-speed and requires one less shift to that speed.
> 
> It is ironic that the the best upgrade (6-speed) harms it in the most often used metric.
> 
> ...


That's only one aspect. And the STI isn't really designed as a 0-60 or drag car.


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## shredchic (Jun 18, 2007)

Oh yeah - it would be silly to post a thread about the WRX on mtbr without someone mentioning that your IMBA membership gets you a 1K-3K discount on a new Subie...

http://www.imba.com/membership/individual/benefits/subaru-vip-program


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

nachomc said:


> That's only one aspect. The STI is really designed as a 0-60 or drag car.


I think you meant 'Not'.

Sure thing, I get that.

One of the downsides of the STI though is you're paying an arm and a leg for all that electronics. I think it's a waste for a bike transport car and one that doesn't see the track all the time.






Does either car have the options for a DSG or dual clutch auto transmission. I used to be a manual tranny die hard but I've seen the bleeding edge of trannies and they are auto.

Clarkson on the STI's low price:
"It has fewer luxuries than an Egyptian's lavatory."

fc


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

francois said:


> I think you meant 'Not'.


Yeah you caught me pre-edit 



francois said:


> One of the downsides of the STI though is you're paying an arm and a leg for all that electronics. I think it's a waste for a bike transport car and one that doesn't see the track all the time.


I agree completely. Actually most of my friends who got the STI either have a car they daily drive now, or they got rid of the STI altogether. When the first brake-job came due some of them realized they probably didn't need this car for commuting . That, and the fact that there was no STI-wagon in 05 is why I replaced my 03 WRX sedan with the 05 wagon. I still wouldn't buy an STI today; I just don't need it.


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## sactojesse (Apr 19, 2004)

francois said:


> One of the downsides of the STI though is you're paying an arm and a leg for all that electronics.
> 
> Does either car have the options for a DSG or dual clutch auto transmission.


The $10k premium over the WRX nets you: 1) six-speed manual, 2) Brembo brakes, 3) front limited-slip differential, 4) driver-controlled center differential, and 5) forged BBS rims (standard only on the 5-door STI, optional on the new 4-door STI). IMO, I'd rather keep the $10k and get the WRX, which has comparable performance, better gas mileage by 2 mpg city and highway, and is 150 pounds lighter. 

There are no dual-clutch gearboxes or automatics available for either the WRX or the STI. The reason is that Subaru makes its own gearboxes, so we're stuck with what they have, which in the case of Foresters and Imprezas are archaic four-speed automatics.  Even the 2009+ turbo Forester 2.5XT is saddled with a four-speed automatic and the turbo 2010+ Legacy 2.5GT is only available w/ a six-speed manual.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

sactojesse said:


> The $10k premium over the WRX nets you: 1) six-speed manual, 2) Brembo brakes, 3) front limited-slip differential, 4) driver-controlled center differential, and 5) forged BBS rims (standard only on the 5-door STI, optional on the new 4-door STI). IMO, I'd rather keep the $10k and get the WRX, which has comparable performance, better gas mileage by 2 mpg city and highway, and is 150 pounds lighter.
> 
> There are no dual-clutch gearboxes or automatics available for either the WRX or the STI. The reason is that Subaru makes its own gearboxes, so we're stuck with what they have, which in the case of Foresters and Imprezas are archaic four-speed automatics.  Even the 2009+ turbo Forester 2.5XT is saddled with a four-speed automatic and the turbo 2010+ Legacy 2.5GT is only available w/ a six-speed manual.


They're doing a CVT trans on some of the four-cyl models of the outback now. I don't know about the foresters and other - I was just looking at buying a new OB a while back.


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## Spokeman (Sep 4, 2007)

Hope these work, here are some pics of the car I'm getting hopefully when the ship comes in. Not my rig but basically, I can't wait!

View attachment 580014


View attachment 580015


View attachment 580016


View attachment 580017


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## sactojesse (Apr 19, 2004)

nachomc said:


> They're doing a CVT trans on some of the four-cyl models of the outback now. I don't know about the foresters and other - I was just looking at buying a new OB a while back.


True. The 2.5i 2010+ Legacies and Outbacks get a choice of a CVT or 6-speed manual, while the six-cylinder 3.6R models only get a 5-speed automatic. The Legacy 2.5GT is only available w/ a 6-speed manual.


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## space (May 25, 2004)

nachomc said:


> They're doing a CVT trans on some of the four-cyl models of the outback now. I don't know about the foresters and other - I was just looking at buying a new OB a while back.


They are only doing CVTs for Outbacks and Legacy's. Thinking about replacing my mini with a subaru so I've been doing a lot of research. I really wish they offered the CVT on the impreza. In any case I'll probably end up with the WRX because the outback is too big for me and the impreza is just not as fun to drive


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

Wow, those ins rates are very reasonable.

STi for me please.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

francois said:


> The other contenders are the Mazadaspeed 5 which is a rocket but is really flawed in 2wd form.


What about the Mazdaspeed 3? Faster than the R32, better fuel economy than the Lancer (equivalent to WRX,) DSC and traction control gives you similar street performance as both the WRX or the Lancer, and it's about the same price too.

Beat out both the WRX and Lancer back in 2008:

http://www.insideline.com/mazda/maz...a-wrx-vs-2009-mitsubishi-lancer-ralliart.html

Compares very well to 2010 models:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...ubaru_wrx_volkswagen_gti/specs_test_data.html

I guess it all comes down to whether or not you'll be rallying the car offroad, but the Mazda is significantly nicer on the inside than the Subaru, and has better reliability ratings too. Oh yeah, and is $8k less than the equivalent Subaru....


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

Hate Front wheel drive


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

jtmartino said:


> What about the Mazdaspeed 3? Faster than the R32, better fuel economy than the Lancer (equivalent to WRX,) DSC and traction control gives you similar street performance as both the WRX or the Lancer, and it's about the same price too.
> 
> Beat out both the WRX and Lancer back in 2008:
> 
> ...


Great article! http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...ralliart_subaru_wrx_volkswagen_gti/index.html

The Mazda is a good car. It is a lot of power though for a FWD car so they limit the power in 1st and 2nd gear to prevent torque steer. The Mazda is a good choice in normal form. If you want a car this fast, 4wd is key.

The WRX is now 4.5 0-60 mph and 275 hp. Wow, it keeps getting faster. I think Subaru is lying to us about how strong this engine is to prevent cannibilizing STI sales.

fc


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

sactojesse said:


> The $10k premium over the WRX nets you: 1) six-speed manual, 2) Brembo brakes, 3) front limited-slip differential, 4) driver-controlled center differential, and 5) forged BBS rims (standard only on the 5-door STI, optional on the new 4-door STI). IMO, I'd rather keep the $10k and get the WRX, which has comparable performance, better gas mileage by 2 mpg city and highway, and is 150 pounds lighter.


There's hell of a lot more than that to the STI. Shocks/springs, linkages/bushings (suspension and shifting), and so on. I think the new WRXs are FINALLY better and worthy of the WRX name, but that doesn't change that the STI is still a much faster/race-inspired machine.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jtmartino said:


> What about the Mazdaspeed 3?
> 
> Beat out both the WRX and Lancer back in 2008:


Well, yes, but the 2008 WRX was weaksauce and not really a WRX. They imported the Subaru Impreza GT from Japan in 2008 and called it the "WRX". Much softer suspension than previous WRXs, about the same weight (but at least with steel body panels finally), power was the same as before (except max torque was 400rpm sooner, not all that big in the grand scheme). It wasn't really an improvement, and many considered it to be a step backwards.

The 2009 WRX was a different animal and much more like the "WRX", the new "widetrack" is even better.


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

francois said:


> Hey, you don't work!
> 
> The G35 is very good but it's way different. It's much different as it's much heavier and has a way better interior. But for driveablility and utility, the WRX will win. Doesn't it snow over there?
> 
> fc


Yeah, this car will be the work car (which right now, is in South Carolina)... I'll be keeping the Tacoma and the M-Roadster for the more fun stuff...


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## urban turban (Dec 15, 2009)

*2012 Impreza Concept*

New models are gonna roll out with a 2.0 liter engine and CVT tranny.
https://www.drivingsports.com/site/2010/11/subaru-impreza-concept-stuns-la/


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

urban turban said:


> New models are gonna roll out with a 2.0 liter engine and CVT tranny.


Just for the record, I think CVT auto trannies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission) are bullcrap. They are inefficient, slow and a buzzkill to drive. They are ok for commuter cars but really take the magic out of fun driving.

The fine auto trannies right now are the dual-clutch ones and the VW DSG ones. They're more fuel efficient, have faster acceleration and shift like lightning. We even get a few cars that have rev-matching when you downshift or some that blip the throttle and you realize that you cannot beat these auto trannies unless you are a pro.


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## urban turban (Dec 15, 2009)

francois said:


> ...CVT auto trannies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission) are bullcrap...


The CVT is most likely only for the base model. I doubt Subaru will take the risk of pissing off their performance oriented fans of the WRX and STI with a crappy CVT transmission.

I agree with you that performance wise it is very difficult for a driver to beat out a dual clutch transmission, mainly because we would need a third arm and leg to get the next gear lined up before we shift! However, driving an automatic you also lose clutch control. But that wouldn't stop me from buying a GT-R.

At the price point of the WRX, I would rather have the manual transmission. Reduced weight, reduced cost, more simple to maintain and IMO more fun to drive.


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## Octane (Mar 16, 2004)

Subaru's are great cars. Their new Forester is a fantastic car, and deserved the "SUV of the year" title last year.

The WRX is a great, fun, and comfortable daily driver. It would be a tough choice between the current WRX or the new VW GTI. Personally, I'd probably choose the GTI.

The Mazdaspeed3 is a horse of a different color. It offers no-compromise performance in a street-legal package. Comfort is sacraficed for handling, tractability is sacraficed for overall power. And appearance is sacraficed for, well... it's just an ugly car. Buy this car if you value performance above all else.

Regarding the performance numbers; Car and Driver, Road and Track, etc. seem to achieve performance numbers that can't be legitimatelly duplicated. I trust the performance numbers from edmunds.com above all others.

Speaking of performance numbers, did anyone else read about how the 2011 STI is slower than the 2010 STI? Hmmmm... http://www.insideline.com/subaru/im...baru-impreza-wrx-sti-full-test-and-video.html

-B


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Octane said:


> Subaru's are great cars. Their new Forester is a fantastic car, and deserved the "SUV of the year" title last year.
> 
> The WRX is a great, fun, and comfortable daily driver. It would be a tough choice between the current WRX or the new VW GTI. Personally, I'd probably choose the GTI.
> 
> ...


I've driven the new versions of all three. The Mazdaspeed3 used to be my favorite but it is now in the dog house. It is just an an overpowered front wheel drive car and Mazda keeps limiting the power in first and second gear to avoid torque steer and accidents.

This is a good review:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...ralliart_subaru_wrx_volkswagen_gti/index.html

0-60:
Mazdaspeed 3 - 6 seconds
2011 WRX - 4.5 seconds

At the track, the WRX will destroy the Mazdaspeed 3. The WRX is a way better and faster driver's car the the Mazdaspeed. That may not have been the case a couple years ago. Interior and creature comforts on the Mazdaspeed are way better though. The GTI blows them both away in interior quality and materials.

fc


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## rox (Aug 30, 2008)

well my gf has a mazdaspeed 3, and i have a 2010 wrx so I think i can make this comparison pretty well. the ms3 has an edge in handling on smooth roads. it is factory tuned and quite balanced for a stock car. it has lots of power but with that comes lots of torque steer and torque limiting to put that power down. the wrx feels a little slower in acceleration but thats mostly because its much smoother. when the roads get rougher the wrx will out handle the ms3 no problem. the suspension is more compliant and has more travel but still manages to keep the body roll down.

they are both great cars in their class and making a choice is tough. I think if you want to go skiing, or think of yourself as more outdoorsy then youll want the car with awd and more ground clearance.

the downside of the wrx is the transmission. for about the same price you get a nice 6 speed in the mazda.


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## MondoRides (Feb 18, 2004)

*Great Bike Hauler!*

Not sure how I feel about the new wide body on the WRX sedan yet but it's starting to grow on me a little. With a baby on the way I way trying to convince the wife that she needed to trade in her G37 coupe for the 2010 or 2011 WRX but she just can't do without all the luxury car niceties.

I've got a WRX for bike hauling, Tahoe trips and commute duty and an S2000 for fair-weather driving. Although the S2000 is much more fun to drive overall, the WRX just can't be beat in terms of a fun multi-purpose vehicle for the money.


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## swill'n (May 13, 2010)

I'll keep driving my 99 V70 until I can get behind the wheel of this:








:thumbsup:

https://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1035199_2011-volkswagen-golf-r-preview
https://www.insideline.com/volkswagen/golf/2012/2012-volkswagen-golf-r-first-drive.html

Or possibly an A3. I want AWD and DSG. Subaru makes a great car, but I just cant picture myself driving one everyday. I'm over the added complications of a manual (04 civic, 07 accord) CVT is dull, and DSG looks like the future. The DSG transmission and VW direct injection engine was highly recommended from my favorite trusted shop, and these guys know their stuff (all about tuning high end German cars for our local track).

For what it's worth I don't own any Croocs, only Birkenstocks for me. JK. :eekster:


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## shanedawg (Jan 9, 2004)

I have driven lots of wrx's, mazdaspeed3's from 2008 and 2010, and gti's from 2008 and 2010 and I decided to buy a used 2008 R32.

It has the sickest combo of AWD, trans, and comfort around. I got it with 15,000 mi on it for 24k. spanks the wrx in looks and quality and for commuting I can use the auto. spanks the ms3 in handling and grip, and features. 

Everyone call VW and ask why the hell they are not selling them here this year?


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## rox (Aug 30, 2008)

I forgot I was supposed to add: the mazda rattles. like marbles in a paint can. ok not quite that bad but it rattles. being the mazda fan (I have a couple rotaries) that I am I have to blame it on all the ford parts :/


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

shanedawg said:


> I have driven lots of wrx's, mazdaspeed3's from 2008 and 2010, and gti's from 2008 and 2010 and I decided to buy a used 2008 R32.
> 
> It has the sickest combo of AWD, trans, and comfort around. I got it with 15,000 mi on it for 24k. spanks the wrx in looks and quality and for commuting I can use the auto. spanks the ms3 in handling and grip, and features.
> 
> Everyone call VW and ask why the hell they are not selling them here this year?


Good assessment. They're not selling it cause they're not selling. That car needs MORE POWER and it will get it with the upcoming R.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

rox said:


> well my gf has a mazdaspeed 3, and i have a 2010 wrx so I think i can make this comparison pretty well. the ms3 has an edge in handling on smooth roads. it is factory tuned and quite balanced for a stock car. it has lots of power but with that comes lots of torque steer and torque limiting to put that power down. the wrx feels a little slower in acceleration but thats mostly because its much smoother. when the roads get rougher the wrx will out handle the ms3 no problem. the suspension is more compliant and has more travel but still manages to keep the body roll down.
> 
> they are both great cars in their class and making a choice is tough. I think if you want to go skiing, or think of yourself as more outdoorsy then youll want the car with awd and more ground clearance.
> 
> the downside of the wrx is the transmission. for about the same price you get a nice 6 speed in the mazda.


Thank you Rox! Then how come I saw your gf school you up Highway 9. Then se did again at Long Ridge.


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## sactojesse (Apr 19, 2004)

I've always liked the R32, but it's tough to justify the cost when compared to the WRX, especially given the, IMO, inferior Haldex AWD of the R32. If I wanted a Haldex system, I'd get a Suzuki SX4 and save $20k.


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

That S2000 is HF! Nice rims.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Our review is here. Please check it out and comment.

http://reviews.carreview.com/blog/2011-subaru-impreza-wrx-review/


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## motorbacon (Jun 17, 2010)

Interesting comments and reviews, but it seems like you guys are forgetting about the one hatchback/wagon that completely outdoes the sti in every category.........


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

motorbacon said:


> Interesting comments and reviews, but it seems like you guys are forgetting about the one hatchback/wagon that completely outdoes the sti in every category.........


Is that the Fox? Off road edition?

fc


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## motorbacon (Jun 17, 2010)

87 Fox wagon. Lifted on b3/b4 Passat suspension and some fabbed bits. Waiting on bilstein inserts and a set of all terrain tires

What do you do when you get a car for 1 dollar? You play with it.

In all seriousness, the new wrx is a nice car, but the aesthetics get to me. The exhaust note can be smoothed out with equal length headers and the car plows hard when you push it. Definitely well set up for 95% of the people who will purchase such cars, for the 5% that actually track their cars, the suspension needs attention.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Yeah...*



francois said:


> Good assessment. They're not selling it cause they're not selling. That car needs MORE POWER and it will get it with the upcoming R.
> 
> fc


The R32 with a 3.2l v6 is super heavy. It would be fast if that block wasn't such a dang boat anchor. They can produce that much power with the 2 liter turbo 4 with enough boost, and it would weigh a lot less and spin up faster.

Personally, I would take a slower car I actually liked to drive more. They're still plenty quick for my tastes.


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## xls (Oct 22, 2004)

Is there any way to test drive one of these (2011 WRX that is)? I have an Outback right now and hate it.


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## motorbacon (Jun 17, 2010)

dealership


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## Spokeman (Sep 4, 2007)

xls said:


> Is there any way to test drive one of these (2011 WRX that is)? I have an Outback right now and hate it.


You really have to hunt around because most dealers do not have them on the floor. I ordered my WRX Oct. 15 and should hopefully be getting it by Dec. 15th. Long wait but I really don't get in a hurry, it has been actually fun waiting


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## swill'n (May 13, 2010)

pimpbot said:


> The R32 with a 3.2l v6 is super heavy. It would be fast if that block wasn't such a dang boat anchor. They can produce that much power with the 2 liter turbo 4 with enough boost, and it would weigh a lot less and spin up faster.
> 
> Personally, I would take a slower car I actually liked to drive more. They're still plenty quick for my tastes.


+1. Still got to love the looks of the R32 GTI. It's got style and has get up and go. I'm stoked to see how fast the 4 cylinder w/ turbo in the GTI-R performs. Seams like a "Goldilocks" of sorts with the power to weight ratio and AWD!. The R32 reminds me of the the old Honda Prelude with H22 engine weight all up front. Just not very nimble.


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## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

I went to the dealer in Augusta, GA and they said that I would have to order one to test drive one (no one has them in stock) but I will have first right of refusal as long as it's not a crazy color combination... I passed as I want to drive one before signing on any dotted line... Plus, I also have other cars on the radar (135i, G37S)... Luckily, I can wait...


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## xls (Oct 22, 2004)

I guess that might work (order to test drive), as long as I get my deposit back if I don't like it.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

xls said:


> I guess that might work (order to test drive), as long as I get my deposit back if I don't like it.


Craigslist a 2010 and take a test drive on a used one.

If you like spirited driving, you will like it. It is like driving a BMW 335 or and Audi S4. The real issue is if you'll can handle the interior and creature comforts so go sitting in one without driving is helpful too.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

flipnidaho said:


> I went to the dealer in Augusta, GA and they said that I would have to order one to test drive one (no one has them in stock) but I will have first right of refusal as long as it's not a crazy color combination... I passed as I want to drive one before signing on any dotted line... Plus, I also have other cars on the radar (135i, G37S)... Luckily, I can wait...


Aren't you getting a 2012 1 Series M coupe?
http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/08/27/new-video-bmw-1-series-m-coupe-2/

Let's see a photo of your Idaho convertible!!

fc


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## Spokeman (Sep 4, 2007)

xls said:


> I guess that might work (order to test drive), as long as I get my deposit back if I don't like it.


I got lucky, the day I went to the dealer they just happen to receive a WRX with Navigation. Dealer said yeah go for a test drive, I got in the car and it had 4 miles on it! He said were do you want to go? I said hills, curvy roads ok so away we went, even got some freeway time in he let me drive for over 20 miles, so fun! He even told me to get on it have some fun. Got back to the dealer and there was already a guy waiting to drive it, he ended up buying it as well. I was ok with that because I really don't need the navigation and was not thrilled on silver. I guess the extended test drive worked:thumbsup:


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## Fast Eddy (Dec 30, 2003)

francois said:


> It is like driving a BMW 335 or and Audi S4 with the ebrake on.


Fixed.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Fast Eddy said:


> Fixed.


audi fanboi.

It's like driving those german cars with the interior stripped for the track.

fc


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