# Surly Krampus



## messofzero (Jul 8, 2005)




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## messofzero (Jul 8, 2005)

Another picture from Facebook:










I want, but don't know why I want.


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## Tikesdad (Dec 23, 2009)

It's the bike I've been day dreaming about.


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## rojogonzo (Jan 24, 2008)

very cool


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

That looks like it could be a lot of fun. Not sold on the name, though.


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## jncarpenter (Dec 20, 2003)




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## jncarpenter (Dec 20, 2003)

evasive said:


> That looks like it could be a lot of fun. Not sold on the name, though.


 KRAMPUS


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## MMcG (Jul 7, 2003)

F'in Cool!


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

jncarpenter said:


> KRAMPUS


Ah ha. Gotcha.

Nice pic. I like the 70s powerboat sparkle.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

This pertains to my interests.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Nice*



jncarpenter said:


> KRAMPUS


Saint Nicholas' evil companion that eats bad children. I'm liking this new Surly bike more and more.


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## Holmes (Jun 23, 2008)

We wants it precious.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

That looks bad-ass. Must have.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Hrmmm, I'm liking the looks of this!!


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## MarcusSommers (Sep 11, 2008)

Can I have it?


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## jettore (Apr 12, 2011)

I was going to build a KM this winter, but this might take its place.


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## TheSingleGuy (Mar 11, 2004)

must. have. now.


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## dropspace (Jan 1, 2007)

that pic should be the headtube badge


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

I wonder if this rim/tire combo will fit in some existing rigid 29er forks!!!


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## bhc (Sep 27, 2005)

Will it work up front with a P-35 rim? A real budget snow bike setup.


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## GrantB (Jan 10, 2004)

Rack mounts. Nice.


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## SS-Dad (Oct 17, 2006)

*Some more info*

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/clues-about-surlys-newest-fat-bike-795060.html


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

bhc said:


> Will it work up front with a P-35 rim? A real budget snow bike setup.


The rims, (Rabbit Hole), are 50mm wide. So, P-35's will fit easily.


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## bhc (Sep 27, 2005)

My question was along the lines of will it be too much tire for a P-35?


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Enlighten us...
... angles, lengths,

Hows she ride?


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

I really like my Fat front Jones. I love the idea of this, but wouldn't want to go back to 100mm front spacing. I wonder how the 3" 29er tire would compare to the 3.8" 26er tire... Maybe I get these rims build onto 135mm front hub and give it a go.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

man another bike from surly to get me all hot and bothered!


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## kingdom (Jul 6, 2012)

Bike looks fantastic. Just wondering what frame, fork and wheelset will weigh... 
Also,how much and availability?


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## octavius (Sep 26, 2008)

so...
would these tyres work on p-35s?
a skinny fat front anyone?


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Actually, that tire width might be nice on a 26er  :eekster:

I'm not quite sure if it would fit in my current 26er frame that has pretty ample clearance for "normal" tires. Probably not.

... or a 26er size version of the wheels and tires might be great for a frame dimensioned for fat 650b


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## wyatt79m (Mar 3, 2007)

Surly FTW !

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## jjabkrvt (Feb 23, 2006)

Any leaks on the geometry? The ST seems to be pretty slack, which I personally love!


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## Futon River Crossing (Jan 28, 2007)

I will be putting these rims on my Jones - and a Knard on the front!!! - this is what I've been waiting for  - it will be fatter AND lighter than my Gordo/WW setup. I wonder how low you can run them? 15psi or less?

Well done Surly. I can't bloody wait


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## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

I'm slow, and confused.

This is a 29er with clearance for new "fat" 29er tire setups, correct?

I wonder if a Knard would fit in a niner cf fork?  edit- looks like I have a max of 3-3/8" clearance, so it'd be tight but doable.


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## nemhed (May 2, 2010)

In a lineup that includes an Ogre and a Troll, a Krampus makes perfect sense. My only question is does this now belong in a new 29er+/semi-fat sub-forum? I love Surly's stuff, I'm only sad all I own is one of their forks.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

While it's a very cool bike, especially if you're looking for one, I'm more interested in the tyre. Would put it on my KM to help raise the front and BB a bit and slack out the HA a tad and slow the steering down. This would probably pair nicely with a WTB WW 2.55" outback  This is the only thing I've wanted to do to my KM (slack the front) and was thinking of purchasing a 490-500mm fork to do it, but this would be more funner and add more cush


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

rob1035 said:


> I'm slow, and confused.
> 
> This is a 29er with clearance for new "fat" 29er tire setups, correct?
> 
> I wonder if a Knard would fit in a niner cf fork?  edit- looks like I have a max of 3-3/8" clearance, so it'd be tight but doable.


I'm lost as well.

What size rims are normal fat bikes?


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## bamwa (Mar 15, 2010)

Nice pic! this MUST be Gene Simmons in a past life.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

jncarpenter said:


> KRAMPUS


that name's a top contender for my first born male child.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

tl1 said:


> Saint Nicholas' evil companion that eats bad children. I'm liking this new Surly bike more and more.


That's a take off on Schwartze Pete and Saint Nicolas in the Netherlands.


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

'Normal' fat bikes are 26" rims. This is a full on 700c rimmed bike, placing it in the 29" realm. You might be lucky if these fit in your fat bike, as these appear quite tall. certainly won't fit in any normal suspension forks.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

dropspace said:


> that pic should be the headtube badge


If I can get one of these bikes, I will make that happen. Great idea.


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

~martini~ said:


> 'Normal' fat bikes are 26" rims. This is a full on 700c rimmed bike, placing it in the 29" realm. You might be lucky if these fit in your fat bike, as these appear quite tall. certainly won't fit in any normal suspension forks.


I made some measurements from pictures, the diameter of the 3" wide tire is 765mm, about 35mm more than a 29x2.1 tire. I would be very interested to get an actual width measurement of the tire.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

nitrousjunky said:


> I wonder if this rim/tire combo will fit in some existing rigid 29er forks!!!


It should be no problem for a Karate Monkey fork - 90 mm width should be enough for a 3" tire


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## octavius (Sep 26, 2008)

Kamp as Krampus


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

GrayJay said:


> I made some measurements from pictures, the diameter of the 3" wide tire is 765mm, about 35mm more than a 29x2.1 tire. I would be very interested to get an actual width measurement of the tire.





SURLY said:


> Standover height measured using Surly Big Fat Larry tire measuring 762mm in diameter.


10 characters


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

I'm hoping Krampus arrives before the Dec. 6 date of St. Nicholas day. I'd like to buy and ride one before it gets that cold.



RandyBoy said:


> That's a take off on Schwartze Pete and Saint Nicolas in the Netherlands.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I am absolutely in love with this new bike and may just pull the trigger on one. I really wish Surly came out with a 650B monster, though.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

~martini~ said:


> 'Normal' fat bikes are 26" rims. This is a full on 700c rimmed bike, placing it in the 29" realm. You might be lucky if these fit in your fat bike, as these appear quite tall. certainly won't fit in any normal suspension forks.


Anyone know how much taller than a 29er w/2.4 tire would be?


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> Anyone know how much taller than a 29er w/2.4 tire would be?


Diameter should rise up to around 30 mm - it will rise the front about 15 mm and will be also 15 mm in the fork.

This makes it very interesting as a front tire for a Karate Monkey. Rising the front should make the steering angle about one degree slacker so it would run a little more stable on decents.

Because also the seat tube is a little more slacker I would use a seatpost without setback an the body centre is moved to the previous position for still good climbing.

BTW: On the Krampus pics there is much room between the tire and the seatpost - so it must have very long chainstays and should not have this quick steering like a Karate Monkey.

We will see, when the frame geometry charts are published...


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

DerBergschreck said:


> Diameter should rise up to around 30 mm - it will rise the front about 15 mm and will be also 15 mm in the fork.
> 
> This makes it very interesting as a front tire for a Karate Monkey. Rising the front should make the steering angle about one degree slacker so it would run a little more stable on decents.
> 
> ...


Yeah, a well-fitted KM with 29+ front wheel would turn into a bit of a dual-slalom type of bike that will still climb well. Or one could make the bike fit that much more easily with a drop bar setup. I would like to suggest trying a 47mm On-One or Redline Flight fork on the KM, to compensate for the slackening of the head tube angle, (although the redline is a longer fork in itself, hmmm) and make the KM (or other 72º HTA 29"er) a bit more like the Redline Flight or, ultimately, Genesis 2.
If suspension forks can be found to clear the brace, just reduce travel to prevent bottoming and you're set.


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## JAGI410 (Apr 19, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I am absolutely in love with this new bike and may just pull the trigger on one. I really wish Surly came out with a 650B monster, though.


Surly doesn't need to do the "yeah me too" stuff like 650B, they made their own new genre. Again.

Besides, the Troll fits 650B easily doesn't it?


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

JAGI410 said:


> Surly doesn't need to do the "yeah me too" stuff like 650B, they made their own new genre. Again.


Indeed. Let's not forget the Karate Monkey is the first 29" Singlespeed, the KM fork the first rigid one to fit 80mm corrected, and the frameset the first on the market in all of 29", if the Supercal 29 with Marz doesn't count. That was crazy expensive, BTW, the KM a steal.

If riding 26x3 Gazzalodis already made sense to some people, how about a 29+ tire half the weight?

Will someone beef the tire up with a layer of kevlar or whatever and build a (relative) short travel DH bike around it? Some DH forks are bound to fit it already.


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## Soupboy (Jan 13, 2004)

I'm just happy that the tyre will fit in my Salsa CroMoto Grande fork.


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## Gary in VA (May 4, 2004)

Very cool idea, half way to a Fatty, Been thinking about a Fat tired bike but this has peaked my interest.


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## Guerdonian (Sep 4, 2008)

Surly deserves respect for being a brand to just make bikes that are freeking fun, regardless of trends. All I hear these days is "650B this and 650B that" and they come out with something different and interesting. As a proud Karate Monkey owner for 8 years, I have faith that this bike will be a blast!


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

Once a few of those Krampi are wandering our Earth...
Especially if they become one-and-only bikes for folks, or maybe only bike to take on a trip...

What about a road rim/tire standard to complement the 29+ bike? Regular 29" slicks would drop the BB. Maybe not such an issue on the road, but even a 2.35" Supermoto already drops it like one inch, certainly when using 50mm rim, if that works at all for 2.35's.

Enter: 32minus tires. Not quite 32" as one would expect.
32" is the standard I've been proposing for quite a few years now. Probably since around the time I proposed 29x3.0 (shortly after I learned of Surly's shocking Pugsley 26x3.7 project)

29+3" (a sound full size increment, nothing half-azzed) makes for 698mm bead seat diameter. Rim outer diameter 711mm.
Make the first batch of rims them 27mm wide, to work with both modest (up to 2.4") knobby tires, AND 35mm or so slicks to be used in 29+ bikes as road wheels. 36 spokes, of course. I prefer more actually.
Now 711mm is dead-on 28 inches. Yes, 700c/622/29" rims are 25" when you put the ruler to them.
Add some 2.5" for the 35mm slick tires, and you get 30.5" just like 29+. If you need only 23mm rims and 28mm tires, more power to you. It will be quite light and the BB height will still work out for the type of riding (asphalt) you'd typically enjoy with it.
Imagine a bike that fits you perfectly like a favorite MTB, which has road wheels which are significantly bigger than a typical 700c setup. As are your 29+ trail wheels. If the bike has the tire clearnance, you could even take it a step further, with 2.1" knobbies to make for 32" in diameter. Only .75" taller for your BB over 29+.

Remember 26x2.1" WTB nanoraptors, and the difference +10% made to arrive at 1999 29x2.1" Nanoraptors? That was huge.
Now, add ANOTHER 10%. Yes, it works out that way nearly to the third digit. Imagine that. The feel of that not-so-special Nano, as it was in 26", as it improved for 29", and then increased 10% once more. Then imagine your favorite 2.1" tire. Maybe a Conti Twister, maybe a soft compound Schwalbe Jimmy, maybe still that smooth rolling Nano. 
And it just MIGHT fit your krampus bike, if surly is as generous as usual with tire spacing. Main concerns are seat tube, BB yoke and seat stay bridge. Fork is fine.

Seriously, think about it. 32" is getting closer and closer in terms of our everyday riding reality.
For Surly, I am sure one day it will be a dedicated model. It may be a half inch taller or smaller than I propose that time around. But if Krampus doesn't fit 32" and 32-, then soon one of its offspring will.
And making that rim and tire will be much easier than the Rabbit Hole/Knard combo. Don't underestimate the work this must have cost Surly. They likely took all their knowledge and balls, and still lost baths of sweat of this project. They once told me how hard it was to do the Pugsley, technically and financially. What they did here is huge, but 32" is now a piece of cake in comparison.

Your crampus bike and wheel sets:
29+ main wheelset for trail use, whatever that means to you
32- semi-skinny or real skinny road slicks to ride with the missus, or frustrate the local roadie peloton.
32" traditional 2.1" knobbies. Not looking for volume or mad grip, just something to make a dull trail a challenge, and still get nice flow and float. 32" will likely do better on the beach than 26x3.0 Gazzas.

A 30-35mm 32" rim and suited off-road tires 2.0-2.5" is the next step, and is at least as worthy as a stand alone project as is Krampus. Pick your favorite 29" rubber and setups, and extrapolate that 10% bigger. Yes, size L frames and up, it will not be easy to fit an M rider, sorry.


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

I recall a several years back during frostbike riding my 26er and trying a 29er for the first time. A good friend brought it to the show and I was able to try it out in the snow. It had so much more float over the 26 conti explorer pro wide 2.1" tire I was using (yep I just dated my self a bit). Then this really funky bike showed up. Welds were not all that clean and it was just raw steel that looked as if it was finished the night prior. Thing was rolling 36" tires that we played in QBP parking lot that day. Kept bashing it into curbs, with the snow and large tire diameter it felt as if we could roll over anything. Next year or year after the Pug was introduced. I was lucky enough to be able to grab my friends 29er trying to follow them on the trails. As long as you kept moving on the 29er you were good. Stop and you sink right thru the crust. The pugs kept on moving.

Blending the two a 29er and wider tire like the pug I am really excited seeing how it will ride. Now if I could order one with 16" Chain Stays keeping the wide tire and side wall with a narrow BB that would be ideal. Although I think it would violate one of the basic laws of physics.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Cloxxki said:


> Once a few of those Krampi are wandering our Earth...
> Especially if they become one-and-only bikes for folks, or maybe only bike to take on a trip...
> 
> What about a road rim/tire standard to complement the 29+ bike? Regular 29" slicks would drop the BB. Maybe not such an issue on the road, but even a 2.35" Supermoto already drops it like one inch, certainly when using 50mm rim, if that works at all for 2.35's.
> ...


 This is an excellent post and lot of thinking on your part...
...I commend you, very interesting reading!

Thanks for sharing these thoughts!


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

NEPMTBA said:


> This is an excellent post and lot of thinking on your part...
> ...I commend you, very interesting reading!
> 
> Thanks for sharing these thoughts!


Don't flatter me, it'll cost you rep points.
I am a poor man, otherwise I'd have launched 32" just to be able to ride it myself. And 29+ all the same.
If you are not really short, there is some fun or even advantage to be had with 32".


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

There's a bunch of photos here.

New Surly Krampus (Not a 29er, Not a Fat Bike - 29+) | Mountain Bike Review

Our very own photo-john rode it and he's still giddy.

fc


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

francois said:


> There's a bunch of photos here.
> 
> New Surly Krampus (Not a 29er, Not a Fat Bike - 29+) | Mountain Bike Review
> 
> ...


The heck with John, ship it to me.


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## jl (Feb 23, 2004)

Time to start a new forum... I'll log in tomorrow to see where this thread ends up.


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## paulmaag (Mar 11, 2012)

I built a 29er (170mm hub) rear wheel for my Mukluk. I run a Specialized Control 29X2.3 in back and a Surly 4.9 BFL in the front. With my other modifications, this half fat hybrid weighs 28.3 lbs in XL size. I'm hoping the Kanard fits in the rear of the mukluk frame (it might not). If it does, it would be the ultimate set up for most rides I do.
Paul...Palm Springs, CA


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## DmacBmac (Sep 28, 2006)

We all can speculate about this and that. Let's all ride the beast and make a honest assessment of the bikes capabilities on the trail. 

I do commend Surly for have the balls to create another unique bike. :thumbsup:


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Most definitely sign me up for at least one of these Knard tyres when they're available, most definitely want one to put on the front of the KM with 2.55" WW LT outback   


MTBR said:


> he Knard 29×3 weighs in at 820 grams and is available in 120tpi folding


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## chestercospinner (Apr 8, 2007)

I think the Knard will fit in the p-35 rim but id worry it blows off the rim at the wrong time (technically there is no right time for a tire to roll off the rim )


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## spinsir (Mar 27, 2006)

I will contact Surly to see what they say about the Knard on a Karate Monkey. 

This is going to be much better than adding a 490mm fork. I had a 490mm and ended up sticking with the KM fork. I think I will be trying the 29er+ setup myself. Right now I am running tubeless WWs.


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

I'd love to know if the Knard/Rabbit Hole combo would fit a Salsa Enabler fork. I am guessing yes. Much respect to the Surly for repeatedly making enormous contributions to cycling culture.


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## trumpus (Jul 21, 2009)

buddhak said:


> I'd love to know if the Knard/Rabbit Hole combo would fit a Salsa Enabler fork. I am guessing yes. Much respect to the Surly for repeatedly making enormous contributions to cycling culture.


I thought the front was going to be 100mm spacing. Isn't the Enabler 135mm? Would you just lace the RH rim to a 135 hub?


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## paulmaag (Mar 11, 2012)

I run a carver carbon fork on my Mukluk. It's basically the same size as the Salsa enabler. There is lots of room with a standard 29er rim and a 2.4 tire (about 2.5 inches to the side of the crown). This tire is bigger but it can't be more than an inch taller than a standard 29er. 

Now all we need is a suspension fork!


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

Bummer, not arriving until March. At least I have plenty of time to pile up my pennies for the purchase.



> One of the hottest bikes at QBP's SaddleDrive event is the new Krampus. A 29er fat bike with 3 inch tires. Complete bikes will be available around March with an MSRP of $1950.





francois said:


> There's a bunch of photos here.
> 
> New Surly Krampus (Not a 29er, Not a Fat Bike - 29+) | Mountain Bike Review
> 
> ...


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## a44v589 (Feb 9, 2012)

messofzero said:


> Another picture from Facebook:
> 
> I want, but don't know why I want.


I have no use for a bike like this. I ride on pavement or gravel. Really this bike has no practical appeal for me.

I still want one.

Here's why:

I built up a Surly Ogre over the winter. I built it up as an urban bike, and as I did parts selection I specifically chose parts that wouldn't break over parts that were high performance. My motto was "I'm not building a bike that goes AROUND things. I'm building a bike that goes OVER or THROUGH things.". It's an awesome bike. This bike is my ogre, turned up to 11.


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

trumpus said:


> I thought the front was going to be 100mm spacing. Isn't the Enabler 135mm? Would you just lace the RH rim to a 135 hub?


The front of the Krampus, i.e. its fork, will be 100mm. The Salsa Enabler is 135mm. The Knard is a tire. THe Rabbit Hole is a rim. The tire and rim can be built onto any size hub you want. I realize this thread is about the Krampus. But the Knard begat the Krampus.

By the way, WTF is a Knard?


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

buddhak said:


> By the way, WTF is a Knard?


One of the two things in your sack.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

paulmaag said:


> This tire is bigger but it can't be more than an inch taller than a standard 29er.


How much you wanna bet?

:thumbsup:



> Now all we need is a suspension fork!


This rim/tire combo *barely* fits a few existing sus forks. Barely.


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## paulmaag (Mar 11, 2012)

Cool! Then it will be excellent as a fatbike tire alternative for dirt riding!

I was thinking about a suspension fork like the German Answer fatbike fork.


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## Nevada 29er (Nov 12, 2007)

*Wikipedia is Wrong!*

When I ride too hard after a big meal, I get Krampus.


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

paulmaag said:


> I run a carver carbon fork on my Mukluk. It's basically the same size as the Salsa enabler. There is lots of room with a standard 29er rim and a 2.4 tire (about 2.5 inches to the side of the crown). This tire is bigger but it can't be more than an inch taller than a standard 29er.
> 
> Now all we need is a suspension fork!


Whatever the tallest rear tire you've run, consider that the difference with Knard's 30.5" need to be halved for loss of clearance. I bet lateral clearance will be fine, vertical might be a bit of a squeeze. Suppose the tallest you've run is ONLY 29.00". Tape a 0.75" block to it and see how it goes round.

A thing that sortof disappoints me in my mix-matching dreams, is that I don't think I'll get this to work with V-brakes. I'd buy 3.0" tire / 50mm fork compatible V's+Levers if they existed. Maybe in the Fat Bike forum someone runs a home made solution.


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## JeroenK (Oct 3, 2005)

Cloxxki said:


> A thing that sortof disappoints me in my mix-matching dreams, is that I don't think I'll get this to work with V-brakes. I'd buy 3.0" tire / 50mm fork compatible V's+Levers if they existed.


My guess is it's better for your health if that dream does not come true. The stopping distance might be a little more than you dreamed of...


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Cloxxki said:


> A thing that sortof disappoints me in my mix-matching dreams, is that I don't think I'll get this to work with V-brakes. I'd buy 3.0" tire / 50mm fork compatible V's+Levers if they existed. Maybe in the Fat Bike forum someone runs a home made solution.


I've used a Tektro 857AL (110mm arms) with a 26" 47mm rim (on a unicycle) and there is clearance for a Duro 26x3.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Soupboy said:


> I'm just happy that the tyre will fit in my Salsa CroMoto Grande fork.


Have you confirmed this????

Mikesee- can you tell us if it fits in a Salsa CroMoto Grande Fork??


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

david.p said:


> I've used a Tektro 857AL (110mm arms) with a 26" 47mm rim (on a unicycle) and there is clearance for a Duro 26x3.


That's very interesting, thanks! The Knard doesn't look very tall for a true 3.0.
Would canti post spacing not be an issue?

And Jeroen, you know me well enough to understand that I would even skip a front brake from a build I would think I go that minimalistic. Stopping distance is irrelevant with unlimited grip.


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## bspate (May 30, 2010)

Do want to ride this.


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## eMcK (Aug 22, 2007)

I read Knard as canard: 

a : a false or unfounded report or story; especially : a fabricated report b : a groundless rumor or belief


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## bhc (Sep 27, 2005)

Surly

If you are listening, and I read in another thread that you are. Produce twice as many tires as you planned to in the first run. For if they fit in the front of a rigid fork, many are going to want one, just because.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

bhc said:


> Surly
> 
> If you are listening, and I read in another thread that you are. Produce twice as many tires as you planned to in the first run. For if they fit in the front of a rigid fork, many are going to want one, just because.


Me too! Just because. I want two. And a Krampus.

You surely need an old bike wrench as a test pilot. I am available!


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## esundell90 (Dec 20, 2009)

So much winning. Kinda wanna trade my KM for this


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## paulmaag (Mar 11, 2012)

*Will the Kanard fit a Carver O'Beast FatBike fork?*



Cloxxki said:


> Whatever the tallest rear tire you've run, consider that the difference with Knard's 30.5" need to be halved for loss of clearance. I bet lateral clearance will be fine, vertical might be a bit of a squeeze. Suppose the tallest you've run is ONLY 29.00". Tape a 0.75" block to it and see how it goes round.
> 
> A thing that sortof disappoints me in my mix-matching dreams, is that I don't think I'll get this to work with V-brakes. I'd buy 3.0" tire / 50mm fork compatible V's+Levers if they existed. Maybe in the Fat Bike forum someone runs a home made solution.


I uploaded a picture of the Carver O'Beast fork for FatBike with a 2.3X29er tire. Sure looks like the Kanard should fit.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Yeah, but is the 29er yoke for the BOB Yak trailer big enough?

-F


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## Jingleman (Sep 15, 2004)

bhc said:


> Surly
> 
> If you are listening, and I read in another thread that you are. Produce twice as many tires as you planned to in the first run. For if they fit in the front of a rigid fork, many are going to want one, just because.


me too!
dont have the money at the moment for a complete build..but I guess I surely would like to try the wheel /tire combo on my rigid fork..


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

alright mikesee, since you seem to be chilling on this thread more'n the other.
in terms of traction, I'm assuming this compare smore favourably iwth hudu's than nate's?
I've still got gazzis, so not in a rush to lose traction for weight. (although it WOULD be luvverly!) which is why I was originally waiting for the nates to get more widely available before i got a fatbike.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Krampus?*



Nevada 29er said:


> When I ride too hard after a big meal, I get Krampus.


Dang near Killedus.


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## octavius (Sep 26, 2008)

I love the idea of big volume 29er tyres. 2.3 gatos are monsters (for me) and great for mud and wider on my p35s than 2.4 ardents. My jones has bags of clearance up front for more and I'm game for bigger. Starting to think about a fat front but I think this sounds much better. I'll wait and see if they would fit/work on the rims - too narrow? Interesting chat above regarding geo changes/tyre height. 

Ultimately I reckon the Knards might not be absolutely right for me tread wise but I love the overall size being 'birthed'. 

Think surly are a very interesting bike company, very creative. I won't be buying a Krampus but I think it looks like a great bike, looked at it a lot . I look forward to hearing the ride reports.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Mr. Jones, meet Mr. Knard and Mr. Rabbit Hole. Gentlemen, we'll be spending a lot of time together.


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## AshKa (Oct 5, 2004)

bhc said:


> Surly
> 
> If you are listening, and I read in another thread that you are. Produce twice as many tires as you planned to in the first run. For if they fit in the front of a rigid fork, many are going to want one, just because.


Me too, just because !

Will (does) it fit a KM front fork ? Please Surly say yes !!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

nitrousjunky said:


> Mikesee- can you tell us if it fits in a Salsa CroMoto Grande Fork??


One of those has never been within a country mile of my shop nor my bikes, so I have no clear idea.

But I'd guess yes. Especially going forward--we all know Salsa will hop onto Surly's bandwagon and capitalize any way they can.


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## gregg (Sep 30, 2000)

A short video of Adam from Surly going over some of the highlights:


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Cloxxki said:


> That's very interesting, thanks! The Knard doesn't look very tall for a true 3.0.
> Would canti post spacing not be an issue?


I don't have a 29er fork with cantis to compare but the brake posts on my unicycle frame are 94mm c-c.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*MT likes it*

First ride: Surly's new Krampus, a '29 plus' with 3-inch tires | Dirt Rag Magazine

this thing just looks what the honey badger would ride


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## Thor29 (May 12, 2005)

Would a Cannondale Lefty 29er fork work on it?


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Thor29 said:


> Would a Cannondale Lefty 29er fork work on it?


There are Lefty conversion kits for the Pugsley etc so I imagine it would, one way or another


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

kingdom said:


> Bike looks fantastic. Just wondering what frame, fork and wheelset will weigh...
> Also,how much and availability?


I would venture to say that if weight was a real concern, this is probably not the bike for you. 

That said, this looks awesome.












XJaredX said:


> There are Lefty conversion kits for the Pugsley etc so I imagine it would, one way or another


Yeah, it should. P321 or Mendon Cycle is selling/making some Pugs Fatbike Lefty clamps for Lefty Max (clamped on, not bonded steerer clamps) forks. IIRC, Mendon (not affiliated, other than receiving awesome service from him) has some Lefty Max 140 alu forks with PBR dampers at a good price to go in those clamps. You just have to build the correct offset on the front wheel, and limit the travel of the Lefty Max fork so the tire doesn't hit the crown.

The forks are normally 140mm of travel, minus whatever it takes to clear the tire. For a regular 29er tire, the safe reduction is 30mm, leaving 110mm of travel.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

AshKa said:


> Me too, just because !
> 
> Will (does) it fit a KM front fork ? Please Surly say yes !!


KM fork is about 90 mm wide and a Knard tire has 3" = 75 mm. Height should be about 15 mm more an the KM fork has about 50 mm room. So it will fit without problems:thumbsup: So I will build a Knard/Rabbithole frontwheel for my KM as soon as the parts are availiable


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

You wish your bike was this fun.

I had a huge.....er....smile......the entire time i rode it.


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## spinsir (Mar 27, 2006)

*Hurry knard!*



DerBergschreck said:


> KM fork is about 90 mm wide and a Knard tire has 3" = 75 mm. Height should be about 15 mm more an the KM fork has about 50 mm room. So it will fit without problems:thumbsup: So I will build a Knard/Rabbithole frontwheel for my KM as soon as the parts are availiable


Me too!

Phat Cat Customs - Brown Mountain Bike


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

pimpbot said:


> I would venture to say that if weight was a real concern, this is probably not the bike for you.
> 
> That said, this looks awesome.
> 
> ...


IIRC Mendon once said he could fit gazzis easily with the stock clamps.
Still need ot reduce travle but other than that... maybe Mendon will drop by and confirm!


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

I'm just curious as to whether or not it would be worthwhile to try to fit a Knard on the stock Alex Adventurer rim of the Ogre... if it did fit, i wonder if it would be too narrow a rim to even take advantage of the tire.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

As well they should considering both Surly and Salsa are owned by the same company.



mikesee said:


> One of those has never been within a country mile of my shop nor my bikes, so I have no clear idea.
> 
> But I'd guess yes. Especially going forward--we all know *Salsa will hop onto Surly's bandwagon and capitalize any way they can.*


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## patirwin (Jan 14, 2004)

*This news just in:*

from Surly HQ, the OD of the Knard is 30.4", about the same as a BFL, and will fit in a Pugs.

That 30.4" is basically measured from the ground to the top of the tire, so those who wonder if it'll fit your existing bike just need to measure up from the ground to see if your bike has the clearance.

Sorry if this has already been covered in this thread

Pat


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## Mr Pink57 (Jul 30, 2009)

I asked this on Milltowns FB page but I wonder what this wheel/tire could do for the fat front crowd like my self. I would even love this rim with my studded rear tire to see what it could do.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Really interested to hear the price on these tyres and rims, hoping that it's more reasonable than what Fatbike stuff costs, i.e. aroundabouts your avg decent rim like a Stans around $70-80 and hopefully less than $70 for the tyre.

I've received some stupid, negative NEG rep and comments before_ (normally not signed by the loser)_, but this one for my reply to the thread below just absolutely amazes me - guess someone doesn't like me :skep: Normally a good sign you're being honest and forthtright 



Loser said:


> Don't think they ship these to the third world. Not to peckerheads like you, at any rate.





LyNx said:


> Most definitely sign me up for at least one of these Knard tyres when they're available, most definitely want one to put on the front of the KM with 2.55" WW LT outback


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

tl1 said:


> As well they should considering both Surly and Salsa are owned by the same company.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Yes, really Quality Bicycle Products



XJaredX said:


>


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## roofus (Apr 2, 2007)

Surly bikes I have owned, 1x1- check, KM-check, Pacer check, Cross Check x3-check check check. Krampus- coming soon!


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

LyNx said:


> Yes, really Quality Bicycle Products


I was being sarcastic, I've my share of Surly and Salsa stuff. Although it just occurred to me that maybe the Surly/Salsa/QBP thing isn't common knowledge. But it certainly is known by Mikesee


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Side note, it is interesting to see the coming together of Fatbikers and 29er heads in this thread :lol: ...not that the two are mutually exclusive, but still


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

LyNx said:


> Really interested to hear the price on these tyres and rims, hoping that it's more reasonable than what Fatbike stuff costs, i.e. aroundabouts your avg decent rim like a Stans around $70-80 and hopefully less than $70 for the tyre.
> 
> I've received some stupid, negative NEG rep and comments before_ (normally not signed by the loser)_, but this one for my reply to the thread below just absolutely amazes me - guess someone doesn't like me :skep: Normally a good sign you're being honest and forthtright


well.. anyone who judges other people by what they can afford should be dealt w/ harshly.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Considering that everyone is all amazeballs that they had the mold to make this tire, I'm guessing it's going to be closer to fatbike tire than normal tire. I'm figuring $100 USD and if it falls within $20 higher or lower, so be it


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## Moe Ped (Aug 24, 2009)

*Fatbikes are...*



XJaredX said:


> Side note, it is interesting to see the coming together of Fatbikers and 29er heads in this thread :lol: ...not that the two are mutually exclusive, but still


...29ers as far as tire OD is concerned! Here's an experiment I'm trying with my Pugsly; "Half-fat Doggie-style":


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

This is the revenge of 29ers...
...silencing the 650B shouting...

Pee in who's Koolaid?... LOL

Go Krampus, go TwoNynePlus

Gotta find even "BIGGER" Rocks to crush now!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

XJaredX said:


> Considering that everyone is all amazeballs that they had the mold to make this tire, I'm guessing it's going to be closer to fatbike tire than normal tire. I'm figuring $100 USD and if it falls within $20 higher or lower, so be it


The low volume will drive the price high. A cheap fatbike tire is $90 and a bling one is $150. If they offer the Gnard in 27tpi and 120tpi versions they probably be priced along the same lines.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

I'm not a mind reader nor do I play one on TV. It just seemed like kind of sharp edged anti-Salsa comment to me about how they jump on whatever bandwagon Surly develops. I think they're both great companies that happen to share a common owner. Maybe Salsa doesn't give Mike new free stuff to test like Surly does or something and it makes him sad? I don't know exactly the genesis of the Salsa slap. 



> Originally Posted by *mikesee*
> _One of those has never been within a country mile of my shop nor my bikes, so I have no clear idea.
> 
> But I'd guess yes. Especially going forward--we all know *Salsa will hop onto Surly's bandwagon and capitalize any way they can.*_





XJaredX said:


> I was being sarcastic, I've my share of Surly and Salsa stuff. Although it just occurred to me that maybe the Surly/Salsa/QBP thing isn't common knowledge. But it certainly is known by Mikesee


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

tl1 said:


> I'm not a mind reader nor do I play one on TV.


So why are you playing one on MTBR?

Did Salsa pay you to post that?...


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Whole heartily agree and never do, I'll ride with anyone, riding on anything as long as it's safe. Not quite sure which way your comment was meant to go though.



colker1 said:


> well.. anyone who judges other people by what they can afford should be dealt w/ harshly.


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## El Train (Apr 21, 2007)

as far as the tire goes, I think one of the things i like most is the tread pattern. small, square knobs. they said "moto inspired." I think there is a reason every dirt bike tire there is has basically the same square knob pattern. because you don't need ridiculous knob shapes!!!!! they should make all sizes of this tire and people would buy them. perhaps even buy lots of them. simple, simple, simple!


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

So, with promises of mounting a 29er plus front wheel/tire are we rehashing the 69/96/55 concept on a bigger level? 

Can I be the first to say 30.4/29 = 39er, or 30.49er, or 59.4er, or 29erplus/29er, or can we have "E" added to the mix in millimeters? 698E Will Carver make a Killer E?

Just ride the damn bike... LOL?

Krampus, Krampus oh so Fine...
...your Big Tires are just Divine


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

Yes they did. I'm one of their (formerly secret) agents. :skep:



vikb said:


> So why are you playing one on MTBR?
> 
> Did Salsa pay you to post that?...


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

NEPMTBA said:


> So, with promises of mounting a 29er plus front wheel/tire are we rehashing the 69/96/55 concept on a bigger level?
> 
> Can I be the first to say 30.4/29 = 39er, or 30.49er, or 59.4er, or 29erplus/29er, or can we have "E" added to the mix in millimeters? 698E Will Carver make a Killer E?
> 
> ...


Well, opionion make bikes interesting. We like to personalize. 
I may an odd one wearing logo-less t-shirts in daily life, but most people like to be a billboard of their preference, or let thir bike extend their chosen identity.

I am extremely grateful Surly made 29x3.0 happen. It looks to have been worth the wait double over. They don't do things half-azzed.
698mm must happen also. Krampus likely is not the ideal framee for it though, as they seem to keep an eye on also fitting regular 29" tires. This means they'll need to use limited BB drop. With 29+ the BB is likely high-ish, as many playful bikes are. I would not be surprised if they used 68mm BB drop as works so well in regular sized for the KM. Sticking full-on 32"/698 wheels in that, will make it a bit toppy. Well, a lot. The skinny slick 698 tires would still be a fun addition for those in a one-bike marriage or dorm room, but such wheels would totally be wroth dedicated plus sized versions of Pacers, Cross-Checks and Karate Monkeys. I happen to own all in 622, BTW. I promise you, it will be as cool as 29+, just in its own way. 29+ is the not-skinny-anymore approach, 32" would be the tall people's fitted wheels, or medium folks' cool rollers. 36" is already out there, Waltworks has a decent knobby tire on the way, and even that clumsy size has a market. Unicyclists love it, oversized riders yearn for it. Undersized riders, just ride stairases up with sub-par quality heavy-azz tires. 36" when taken to commercial quality parts and a nice selection, will push some older bikes out of a stable for sure. Why commute (sub-urban and rural) the 700c skinny bike when the 36" performance bike is on stand-by? The float on those should be similar to 29+, just require gentler terrain and more speed to really shine I suppose.

Isn't it great that we have sizes to pick from now? In MTB's at least. 650B is just superfluous, the difference with 26" is so small that it will simply not happen that it's closer to a sweet spot than 29". The sweet spot for many riders will be above 29. 29+ is a gentle way to mentally prepare for what will come. As is 36". It's out there, and it works. For the right rider (friggin' tall) it's already better than any alternative.


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## paulmaag (Mar 11, 2012)

*Mukluk half fat 29er*

I've been running a Mukluk half fat front, 29er rear. I can run 29er front as well. The Kanard might be be a tight fit in the rear. This set up is much faster for dirt. I have not tried the rear fat, 29er front set up. Maybe with the Kanard?


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

You think the Knard kanardly fit?



paulmaag said:


> I've been running a Mukluk half fat front, 29er rear. I can run 29er front as well. The Kanard might be be a tight fit in the rear. This set up is much faster for dirt. I have not tried the rear fat, 29er front set up. Maybe with the Kanard?


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## 1StuntMonkey (Jun 16, 2008)

*Sooo Close!!! Singlespeed ability desired (without tensioner)!*

Singlespeed option would have Sold Me!!! 
Horizontal Dropouts or EBB, or both&#8230; 
Bummer&#8230; Sooo Close!!!

Maybe I will seek out a Fat Tire 36er+...


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

1StuntMonkey said:


> Singlespeed option would have Sold Me!!!
> Horizontal Dropouts or EBB, or both&#8230;
> Bummer&#8230; Sooo Close!!!
> 
> Maybe I will seek out a Fat Tire 36er+...


I see horizontal dropouts.

Surly Krampus | Sweetbike (.org)


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## El Train (Apr 21, 2007)

Alex413 said:


> I was going to build a KM this winter, but this might take its place.


yeah.....me too! hard to wait for interbike or whenever we will get full numbers on the frame geo. i hope the chainstays aren't super long. but they probably are to fit that beefcake tire.


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

El Train said:


> yeah.....me too! hard to wait for interbike or whenever we will get full numbers on the frame geo. i hope the chainstays aren't super long. but they probably are to fit that beefcake tire.


Try the pic pix counting method, some of the pics are pretty good for this.

But first, have you ridden a rigid bike with (really) long stays? I found it to rail the corners. Just placed the rear wheel in the most aft position on a Monocog29. the difference to wheelieing was there, but it's not just downsides. Not at all. Comfort, climbing stability, downhill quietness, it's quite profound how that changes with long stays. Be open to it.

Riders between 5' and 6'8', for a given frame model, all share one thing: chain stay length. Do the math on that. It's one of those things like crank length. You should try the size that fits you, and try and get used to it


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Cloxxki said:


> Try the pic pix counting method, some of the pics are pretty good for this.
> 
> But first, have you ridden a rigid bike with (really) long stays? I found it to rail the corners. Just placed the rear wheel in the most aft position on a Monocog29. the difference to wheelieing was there, but it's not just downsides. Not at all. Comfort, climbing stability, downhill quietness, it's quite profound how that changes with long stays. Be open to it.
> 
> Riders between 5' and 6'8', for a given frame model, all share one thing: chain stay length. Do the math on that. It's one of those things like crank length. You should try the size that fits you, and try and get used to it


you make a good point. I switched to a 29er, which also had longer stays than my older bike and I immediately noticed that my rear wheel would spin out easily; I compensated by keeping my weight further back, and my climbing is overall just as good.

The question of getting the correct cs length for your body is one that doesn't seem to have a clear answer. The various factors that affect center of gravity and how mobile your center of gravity is do not clearly depend in any straightforward way on how tall you are. I would guess that a taller ride can move their center of gravity fore and aft more than a shorter rider, all else equal, which would suggest that finding your optimal cs length matters more for shorter riders than taller riders, but not that shorter riders need a shorter or longer cs than a similar taller rider.

To me it seems that with such a large number of variables one's only option is to make an informed guess based one prior experience and expert advice. If you're really short, you may want to pay more attention.

Regardless, at 5'8" I'm not worried at all about being able to change my riding style to make a Krampus work for me.


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

PretendGentleman said:


> you make a good point. I switched to a 29er, which also had longer stays than my older bike and I immediately noticed that my rear wheel would spin out easily; I compensated by keeping my weight further back, and my climbing is overall just as good.
> 
> The question of getting the correct cs length for your body is one that doesn't seem to have a clear answer. The various factors that affect center of gravity and how mobile your center of gravity is do not clearly depend in any straightforward way on how tall you are. I would guess that a taller ride can move their center of gravity fore and aft more than a shorter rider, all else equal, which would suggest that finding your optimal cs length matters more for shorter riders than taller riders, but not that shorter riders need a shorter or longer cs than a similar taller rider.
> 
> ...


I am 6'4" and I know not a single person with longer legs than myself without being inches taller. I have done XC racing up the steepest hills, and have learned to shift my weight the hard way.

IMO wheels, cranks and chainstays are all neglected height-specific parameters on the bikes. Standardized to one size fits no-one for cost and simplicity. No reason why S and M frames should share the same wheels, someone is drawing the short straw. There should be a wheel size difference of about 2" for a 2" frame height increment. Wheels are just less than your inseam. 2"in the frame is 4" in the body.

Tall riders will need to man up, and deal with long chainstays. Learrn to loft a front wheel by will, not by merely allowing it to loft.


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## james-o (Nov 8, 2010)

> Mr. Jones, meet Mr. Knard and Mr. Rabbit Hole. Gentlemen, we'll be spending a lot of time together


I was thinking that ) But adding 1/2"+ of tyre radius will have a similar effect as slackening the bike a degree, nothing major, but the Jones is pretty spot on as-is. I like the idea of this tyre, but not so sure the effect it may have on the handling. It'll be an expensive experiment.
650B x 3.2"ish would match a 29er diameter better, as a half-fat option I think it's the way to go.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

james-o said:


> I was thinking that ) But adding 1/2"+ of tyre radius will have a similar effect as slackening the bike a degree, nothing major, but the Jones is pretty spot on as-is. I like the idea of this tyre, but not so sure the effect it may have on the handling. It'll be an expensive experiment.
> 650B x 3.2"ish would match a 29er diameter better, as a half-fat option I think it's the way to go.


Good points. And I have also been thinking about 650b. Tire and rims will no doubt be coming in those sizes seeing as how 650 seems to be the way the big hit bikes are going to go. For me, depends on the wait. I would build my Rabbit hole/knard wheel this winter. Jeff runs/has run 50mm 29er rims on the front and back of his bike with Ardents. He's very fond of the 72mm fat front with the BFL & 50 mm/Ardent rear. I couldn't anticipate the changes that would come with handling using the Knard/Rabbit Hole, but the thought of slacking the front of Jeff's bike a bit is kind of appealing. In fact, I'm going to run my headset spacers under the head tube with the truss as jeff mentions on his blog. Supposed to slack the bike just a bit.

Oh, and with the Rabbit Hole/Knard I could lose at least 400 grams of rotational weight over my current fat front set-up.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

james-o said:


> I was thinking that ) But adding 1/2"+ of tyre radius will have a similar effect as slackening the bike a degree, nothing major, but the Jones is pretty spot on as-is. I like the idea of this tyre, but not so sure the effect it may have on the handling. It'll be an expensive experiment.
> 650B x 3.2"ish would match a 29er diameter better, as a half-fat option I think it's the way to go.












The Surly input on the Krampus I've seen says the Rabbit Hole + Gnard is the same outside diameter as a BFL. Jeff runs a BFL on the front of the Jones so a Krampus-esque wheel/tire there shouldn't change anything.

Will a Rabbit Hole fit on the back of a Jones?

My friend has run both a BFL and a HDU on the front of his Jones and not had any issues with the difference in steering geo using slightly bigger or smaller tires.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

vikb said:


> The Surly input on the Krampus I've seen says the Rabbit Hole + Gnard is the same outside diameter as a BFL. Jeff runs a BFL on the front of the Jones so a Krampus-esque wheel/tire there shouldn't change anything.
> 
> Will a Rabbit Hole fit on the back of a Jones?
> 
> My friend has run both a BFL and a HDU on the front of his Jones and not had any issues with the difference in steering geo using slightly bigger or smaller tires.


A 47mm Kris Holm rim with a 2.55 WTB Dissent rubs on the rear of my Ti Jones. The same tire on a P35 on the rear of my steel Jones does not rub.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

vikb said:


> The Surly input on the Krampus I've seen says the Rabbit Hole + Gnard is the same outside diameter as a BFL.


Oh crap... I was under the impression I could put a Rabbit Hole and Knard on the front of my Ogre but if this is true, I dunno then?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

XJaredX said:


> Oh crap... I was under the impression I could put a Rabbit Hole and Knard on the front of my Ogre but if this is true, I dunno then?


The Krampus wheel is tall, but not wide like a 5" tire. Surly has said the Rabbit Hole will work on the front of a Karate Monkey which means an Ogre is good to go...:thumbsup:


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Tripower said:


> A 47mm Kris Holm rim with a 2.55 WTB Dissent rubs on the rear of my Ti Jones. The same tire on a P35 on the rear of my steel Jones does not rub.


Hmm. That doesn't bode well for the Rabbit Hole. I know Jeff and Aquaholic have been using 50mm rims on the Jones out back. Maybe they have the eccentric bottom bracket in a different position?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bluestatevirgin said:


> Maybe they have the eccentric bottom bracket in a different position?


or smaller tires.


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## jncarpenter (Dec 20, 2003)

bluestatevirgin said:


> Hmm. That doesn't bode well for the Rabbit Hole. I know Jeff and Aquaholic have been using 50mm rims on the Jones out back. Maybe they have the eccentric bottom bracket in a different position?


How does moving the bb affect the rear axle location?


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

vikb said:


> or smaller tires.


Yes, smaller tires. 2.35 tires on the 47mm Kris Holm fit fine.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

vikb said:


> My friend has run both a BFL and a HDU on the front of his Jones and not had any issues with the difference in steering geo using slightly bigger or smaller tires.


With those large tires there has got to be some sag involved too. IOW with rider mounted the tire must flatten out a bit and lower the bike a bit because the pressure is so low. I don't know personally though, I haven't had an opportunity to ride one.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

There aren't many 'stock' 29" frames that the RH/Knard are gonna fit into.

Not without some serious muffin top action anyway.

I had to run a 2.4 Ardent out back on an amphibious tour of Canyonlands this spring. No match for the Knard--none. 50mm rims pictured.






There were enough hard surfaces on this route that full fat made no sense--too heavy, too slow, too big of a magnet for goatheads. And enough soft surfaces that 'normal' 29" didn't make much sense either. The Krampus platform ticked all the right boxes, but since the frame/fork weren't available yet I did the next best thing.

The combined speed and float are indeed the answer to the question that I've been asking the last few years. Now that this platform exists I've begun plotting other, similar, but better tours to places I'd not have wanted to go before.

Gonna be a good fall. And winter. And spring...

I heart Surly.

MC


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## james-o (Nov 8, 2010)

> In fact, I'm going to run my headset spacers under the head tube with the truss as jeff mentions on his blog. Supposed to slack the bike just a bit


No Jones-tech hijack intended here, but I have mine with a couple of spacers under the lower cup, feels good but only tweaks it ~1/4 degree, it's subtle but I doubt I'd really notice much now if I changed it back. A full degree I do start to feel though.

Vik, that BFL looks quite close to a big 29x2.4" OD based on fork clearance in the pic, there's less in it than I thought. Headset spacers / cup depths can balance things a bit and minor differences you get used to. The bigger tyre volume willl be more noticable and fun.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

jncarpenter said:


> How does moving the bb affect the rear axle location?


Yeah. That was a dumb thought on my part.

Edit: Well, it wasn't really a thought at all. I think that was the mistake.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

By the way, JNCarpenter, I covet your bike. Probably the most flexible bike I've seen. Full fat, 29er, fat front, now the Rabbit Hole/Knard. I guess the Pugs is the closest production bike to being able to do all these things. I wonder how your bike would do with 650b? 

If I were a bike producer, I would be striving to create a bike that has the flexibility to do all these wheel sizes well. Surly really is opening doors for others.


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## jollynut (Apr 5, 2011)

*Surly Krampus in Japan*

Just got back from a wee blat in the northern Japan hills with the Sam's Bike crew (a local bike store) and the Surly Japan Tour team. I took a few sneaky pics of their Krampusessses.

Very much *not* stock-standard, _*not*_ production versions.

They made my Karate Monkey with 47mm Kris Holm rims + 2.3 tyres look like a puny wee road bike.

More pics here: Surly Japan Tour in Sapporo (2012) - a set on Flickr


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

So are these new rims singlewall? Judging them by the cutouts, they are. Many long years as a bmx rider has left me highly skeptical of single wall rims. In bmx, double-wall is a mantra we repeat for several hours each day--it used to be "triple wall" until we realized that 40lb bikes weren't necessary.

I would definitely opt for a large marge over a rolling daryl in the fatbike world, simply b/c I don't trust single wall rims, even if they are super wide. 

Maybe I'm mistaken that these are single wall or maybe i'm mistaken that single wall isn't strong enough. Can anybody fill me in?


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## jollynut (Apr 5, 2011)

Thor explained to me today that they are both single wall _*and*_ double wall. That is, they are double on the sides, and single in the middle.


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## jave-mtr (Jan 4, 2007)

Clueless question: what headset system is used? Are the top and bottom bearing cups pressfit into the frame or is part of this system of the dropin integrated type? Thanks


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## dirtdan (Jun 27, 2011)

One of the coolest things about Surly is that they use words in their advertisements/marketing that are not allowed to be posted here on this forum.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

jollynut said:


> Just got back from a wee blat in the northern Japan hills with the Sam's Bike crew (a local bike store) and the Surly Japan Tour team. I took a few sneaky pics of their Krampusessses.
> 
> Very much *not* stock-standard, _*not*_ production versions.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the pics....:thumbsup:


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

mikesee said:


> There aren't many 'stock' 29" frames that the RH/Knard are gonna fit into.
> 
> Not without some serious muffin top action anyway.
> 
> ...


This is what I was hoping to see. I am already thinking along these lines for some bikepacking trips. 
Thanks for the input, Mike.

Los


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

jollynut said:


>


Much better color than the "Xmas tree green" seen on other prototypes. Do you know what the colors will be wehn the frame is produced? Will there be a black on a one with a different color - like other Surly frames?


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

awww man that super metal flakey paint would have been awesome, maybe not in that xmas green but still. probably more $$$ though to paint, i suppose it may have been axed to keep the cost down


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## jollynut (Apr 5, 2011)

DerBergschreck said:


> Much better color than the "Xmas tree green" seen on other prototypes. Do you know what the colors will be wehn the frame is produced? Will there be a black on a one with a different color - like other Surly frames?


The metallic/flecked green paint-job version was there yesterday also; I was told that that will be the production color. That metallic green is really nice in sunlight; photos do not do it justice. Photos of the metallic green always seem to show the color up much darker than it really is. _*The light-mint-green shown here is just a one-off job*_. I didn't ask about any other colors. But if previous bikes are any indication, I extremely highly doubt there will be color choices available


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## jollynut (Apr 5, 2011)

XJaredX said:


> awww man that super metal flakey paint would have been awesome, maybe not in that xmas green but still. probably more $$$ though to paint, i suppose it may have been axed to keep the cost down


See the reply below...this is a one-off color. The metallic green is still the planned production color.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

too lazy to read the whole thread (tl;dr) but is the front wheel a good spacing or the old 100mm standard? I would be highly disappointed if it wasn't a 135mm spacing. Hard to tell from the pictures.

edit: 100/135 standard from their blog. Disappointing...just really been waiting for someone bigger to challenge the dominant front 29er wheel paradigm, besides Jones.


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

rockcrusher said:


> too lazy to read the whole thread (tl;dr) but is the front wheel a good spacing or the old 100mm standard? I would be highly disappointed if it wasn't a 135mm spacing. Hard to tell from the pictures.
> 
> edit: 100/135 standard from their blog. Disappointing...just really been waiting for someone bigger to challenge the dominant front 29er wheel paradigm, besides Jones.


No-one is keeping you from sticking a fat fork in it. Aren't there no-offset 135mm fat forks out there? Height is not an issue.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Cloxxki said:


> No-one is keeping you from sticking a fat fork in it. Aren't there no-offset 135mm fat forks out there? Height is not an issue.


I thought height was the issue. For tire production it is. Are there a bunch of fat tire forks out there that will accommodate a 29x3? I imagine the salsa fork would be a candidate if what you say is true, that height is not an issue.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

rockcrusher said:


> edit: 100/135 standard from their blog. Disappointing...just really been waiting for someone bigger to challenge the dominant front 29er wheel paradigm, besides Jones.


Personally I'm happy it's not something other than a standard 100mm front wheel. That means other 29er wheels will drop into the frame and wheels from a Krampus will drop into a 29er frame with smaller tires.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

PretendGentleman said:


> I thought height was the issue. For tire production it is. Are there a bunch of fat tire forks out there that will accommodate a 29x3? I imagine the salsa fork would be a candidate if what you say is true, that height is not an issue.


OD is 30.4" Surly says their 3" 29er rubber has the same outer diameter as a Big Fat Larry and that it will work in a Pugs on their 50mm rim.

It will also work in a Surly Ogre fork.


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## iamkeith (Feb 5, 2010)

vikb said:


> Personally I'm happy it's not something other than a standard 100mm front wheel. That means other 29er wheels will drop into the frame and wheels from a Krampus will drop into a 29er frame with smaller tires.


Everything I've read says that this was the precise design challenge that Surly posed for themselves.

I know this is a probably a dumb question to most of you, but their other self-imposed challenge was to use a "no-offset fork." What does that mean, exactly? What's the value of drastically increasing trail figures? Not trying to be coy - I really just don't know.

Or, by "offset," are they talking about side-to-side shifts and wider front hubs, like the Pugsly uses?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

iamkeith said:


> Or, by "offset," are they talking about side-to-side shifts and wider front hubs, like the Pugsly uses?


Offset to the side as in the Pugs to get driveline clearance in the rear. There isn't any need for an offset fork unless you want the wheels to be swappable front to rear like the Pugs.


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## markiey (Dec 7, 2007)

The Moonlander fork is non-offset 135mm and it should work. I have one on my Pugs with a BFL on a Rolling Daryl rim so the Knard/Rabbit Hole combo should fit fine. I switch it out and run it on my Niner MCR occasionally for the fat front setup and it works there too.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

PretendGentleman said:


> So are these new rims singlewall? Judging them by the cutouts, they are. Many long years as a bmx rider has left me highly skeptical of single wall rims. In bmx, double-wall is a mantra we repeat for several hours each day--it used to be "triple wall" until we realized that 40lb bikes weren't necessary.
> 
> I would definitely opt for a large marge over a rolling daryl in the fatbike world, simply b/c I don't trust single wall rims, even if they are super wide.
> 
> Maybe I'm mistaken that these are single wall or maybe i'm mistaken that single wall isn't strong enough. Can anybody fill me in?


Granted single wall are not as strong as double wall and if they made them really thin and also drilled/cut double wall they might get the weight down some. But weight is an issue when rims get wide and with more tire to protect the rim you can get away with more. I have some 29er Kris Holm FR 47mm rims on as set of wheels and they are 895g each for those rims. That rim plus a heavy tire make for some heavy ass wheels.


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## rojogonzo (Jan 24, 2008)

jollynut said:


> Just got back from a wee blat in the northern Japan hills with the Sam's Bike crew (a local bike store) and the Surly Japan Tour team. I took a few sneaky pics of their Krampusessses.
> 
> thank you very much


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## BluNosDav (Jan 31, 2012)

Would a "Lefty" Krampus be possible?

Thanx, Dave.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

PretendGentleman said:


> I thought height was the issue. For tire production it is. Are there a bunch of fat tire forks out there that will accommodate a 29x3? I imagine the salsa fork would be a candidate if what you say is true, that height is not an issue.





vikb said:


> Personally I'm happy it's not something other than a standard 100mm front wheel. That means other 29er wheels will drop into the frame and wheels from a Krampus will drop into a 29er frame with smaller tires.





Cloxxki said:


> No-one is keeping you from sticking a fat fork in it. Aren't there no-offset 135mm fat forks out there? Height is not an issue.


Guess my only concern is that the fork offset might be optimized for the larger diameter and when going to a 29er wheel you would get slow steering because of the decrease in trail due to the shorter tire height. Guess we'll have to wait and see if they tweaked the offset for the Krampus or not.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

rockcrusher said:


> Guess my only concern is that the fork offset might be optimized for the larger diameter and when going to a 29er wheel you would get slow steering because of the decrease in trail due to the shorter tire height. Guess we'll have to wait and see if they tweaked the offset for the Krampus or not.


Less trail doesn't give you slower steering. The lighter tire/rim should also steer more easily than a fat front. I'd expect a more lively ride.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

At first I was like, this is stupid. Now I totally want one.


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

appleSSeed said:


> At first I was like, this is stupid. Now I totally want one.


My thoughts exactly.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Mikesee- Can you tell us an actual calipered width of the rabbit hole/knard combo?


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

Opps. Double.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

nitrousjunky said:


> Mikesee- Can you tell us an actual calipered width of the rabbit hole/knard combo?


I talked to them at Surly and they said don't build anything around the current size. Wait until it goes into production at the end of the year. Guess they are still testing.

But I would still like to hear the actual measurements both full width and OA Diameter. My 3.8 and 4" tires are actually only 3 1/4" wide on 47mm rims.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

appleSSeed said:


> At first I was like, this is stupid. Now I totally want one.


That frequently happens with Surly bikes. I'm about to buy my fourth and most of them were like that


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Looking for opinions, guys...I'm most likely going to purchase either the Krampus frameset with rims and tires or the complete bike (depending on how impatient I get and if/when I sell my Stumpjumper). I read (on here I think) that the Rabbit Hole/Knard will fit on the front of the Karate Monkey and a Rabbit Hole with a 29x2.5 tire (I think) would fit out back. Would you guys suggest going with a KM vs a Krampus and just making it like a Krampus? Or, at least, what are your thoughts on that? I'm considering multiple possibilities since I'm not going to make a decision for at least a couple months. Anybody interested in a Stumpjumper? lol


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> t Would you guys suggest going with a KM vs a Krampus and just making it like a Krampus?


I can't see any reason not to buy a Krampus frame or complete if you are buying a new bike. What's the point of buying a KM when it's never going to be able to run 29 x 3" tires?

You'll probably regret that decision very quickly.

If you buy a Krampus frame and decide to run narrower 29er wheels and rubber it's no problem.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

that's what I want to consider. would the bb be too low on the krampus with regular 29" wheels, though?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> that's what I want to consider. would the bb be too low on the krampus with regular 29" wheels, though?


I can't say until they publish the frame specs.

But let me say this a lot of fat bikers talk about using skinny 29er wheels/tires when they are buying their fat bikes. Very few actually bother because they like the way fat rubber works.

Your BB will be a bit lower with normal 29er rubber, but that's secondary in my mind to getting access to 3" 29er tires. You may never want to use smaller rubber.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

modifier said:


> I talked to them at Surly and they said don't build anything around the current size. Wait until it goes into production at the end of the year. Guess they are still testing.
> 
> But I would still like to hear the actual measurements both full width and OA Diameter. My 3.8 and 4" tires are actually only 3 1/4" wide on 47mm rims.


modifier- Gotcha, after more measuring tonight, it really doesn't matter. I'd have to buy a second frame anyway.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

sasquatch rides a ss said:


> looking for opinions, guys...i'm most likely going to purchase either the krampus frameset with rims and tires or the complete bike (depending on how impatient i get and if/when i sell my stumpjumper). I read (on here i think) that the rabbit hole/knard will fit on the front of the karate monkey and a rabbit hole with a 29x2.5 tire (i think) would fit out back. Would you guys suggest going with a km vs a krampus and just making it like a krampus? Or, at least, what are your thoughts on that? I'm considering multiple possibilities since i'm not going to make a decision for at least a couple months. Anybody interested in a stumpjumper? Lol


n + 1.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

nitrousjunky said:


> Mikesee- Can you tell us an actual calipered width of the rabbit hole/knard combo?


I'm thinking if Surly wanted that info out there they'd have put it there themselves.

So, for now, sorry--nope.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Looking for opinions, guys...I'm most likely going to purchase either the Krampus frameset with rims and tires or the complete bike (depending on how impatient I get and if/when I sell my Stumpjumper). I read (on here I think) that the Rabbit Hole/Knard will fit on the front of the Karate Monkey and a Rabbit Hole with a 29x2.5 tire (I think) would fit out back. Would you guys suggest going with a KM vs a Krampus and just making it like a Krampus? Or, at least, what are your thoughts on that? I'm considering multiple possibilities since I'm not going to make a decision for at least a couple months. Anybody interested in a Stumpjumper? lol


My KM rubs in the rear with the wheel slammed foward in the slots. This is running a velocity p35 and racing ralph 2.4. I don't think the rabbit rim with a 2.5 will fit even pushed backwards.


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

A Krampus with skinny rear tire, or 2 skinnies for that matter, will ride differently from a KM with 29+ front or 2 skinnies. Apparently Krampus will get a (very?) slacked out front end, whereas KM is actually one of the steeper ones still on the market.
I just want to know Krampus' fork specs. Especially the rake (offset has proven too confusing a word in fat bike-context). Sortof hoping there will be significantly more rake than on the KM (43mm), but not counting on it.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Regarding a KM with a 2.5" tire on a Rabbit Hole, right now I'm running 2.3" Big Apples on Alex Adventurer (not so wide) rims on an Ogre (same as KM), and using Monkey Nuts it just *barely* clears the front derailleur. I'm not sure about side clearance, though


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

"thickfog" My judo ape( renamed KM) has the red velocity p-35's with spec purgatories 2.4. I use the monkey nuts, it puts the axle in the middle of the dropouts. No rubbing and about 4 mm on each side on the inside of the chainstays and clearance for a front der. too.


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## Tkrosbakken (Apr 12, 2011)

Would the knard work on a standard, wider mtb rim? like for instance, the salsa ride and smile at 29mm? just a thought.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Tkrosbakken said:


> Would the knard work on a standard, wider mtb rim? like for instance, the salsa ride and smile at 29mm? just a thought.


You can mount it to a narrow 29er rim. Whether you like how it rides is another matter.

I just swapped some 2.4" MTB tires from a standard rim to a Velocity P35. The wide tire on a wider rim is a noticeable improvement - particularly in steering accuracy. The wide tire of the narrower rim isn't as well supported and flexes more giving a vague feeling to the bike.

The 2.4" tires on the narrower rims are totally useable, but they are much better on a wider rim.


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## Tkrosbakken (Apr 12, 2011)

Ya that's what I was afraid of. I'll still give it a try.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

leeboh said:


> "thickfog" My judo ape( renamed KM) has the red velocity p-35's with spec purgatories 2.4. I use the monkey nuts, it puts the axle in the middle of the dropouts. No rubbing and about 4 mm on each side on the inside of the chainstays and clearance for a front der. too.


Yup, I now run mine mid way in the drops with no issue. I should clarify, I only had rub when cranking uphill super hard with the bike set up single speed.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Decisions, decisions lol


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

Thin this one will be my new commuter/fun bike.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Just got a call from Surly/QBP last night (I'd just closed, glad I took the call!) 

Apparently they are prebooking these, and not surprisingly, expect the first somewhat limited run, to sell out fast. 

Frame sets will be black, completes will be Moonlit Swamp (assuming that's the cool bass boat green we're seeing).

Tires will be in 27 and 120 TPI.

Tires will be sold with frames, no tires only for the first run, and no extra tires, two tires, one frame, you go now....  

Just tossing out info that I now have, didn't know if all that was already on the table.

I did a preorder, and I would suggest anyone who wants them, to chat ASAP with their local Surly slinger about calling QBP first thing in the AM. Prebooking will commence Monday AM, and likely won't last till Tuesday.

Go get 'em tiger(s).


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## jncarpenter (Dec 20, 2003)

What about the rims?


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

If you're asking me?

I looked at my email I got from them, and oddly, rims were listed, but unpriced, all the other items had prices. 

They will be shipping with the frames and tires, I would guess they made enough for "sets" only this time around, and subsequent orders will be more generous. 

No pricing makes me wonder if they are including the rims with the frame? Hmm......

No other new, salient details on them otherwise.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> If you're asking me?
> 
> I looked at my email I got from them, and oddly, rims were listed, but unpriced, all the other items had prices.
> 
> ...


I diffently want to preorder one but would like to know the geometry first to be sure of what size to purchase. Has Surly released any geometry data yet?


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

I assume the top tube lengths will all be the same as every other model the have, standover might be the same? ...errr, I'd like to know as well. 

Also, what was the frame only pricing again? And Mendon you're saying the frame only price = 2 tires and maybe two rims as well? 120tpi or 32?


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## jncarpenter (Dec 20, 2003)

appleSSeed said:


> And Mendon you're saying the frame only price = 2 tires and maybe two rims as well? 120tpi or 32?


My understanding, based on his comments, was that the frame/fork price _might_ _possibly_ include the rims (there was no price listed for rims), but the tires would be sold separately (since a price was listed for the tires).


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

jncarpenter said:


> My understanding, based on his comments, was that the frame/fork price _might_ _possibly_ include the rims (there was no price listed for rims), but the tires would be sold separately (since a price was listed for the tires).


Correct.

All supposition on that right now. When I get more info I'll pass it on assuming someone else hasn't already by then.

Geometry. My rep couldn't access it, which makes me think it's not been released to the public yet.

More on that as I hear too.....

One thing on the tires in case I created confusion, this first run, they only made enough tires for the framesets/completes.

Why the rims aren't priced, but the tires are is a headscratcher....


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

Fat 29er rims are not easily accessed. And nothing that I have found is light enough to make this project very feasible. They are pretty much going to have to provide rims. 

I also think it's a little premature of them to sell bikes before they can sell the spare tires that the frame is dedicated to. Not that you couldn't run others, but then what is the point? 

It's not like they are a start up company and need pre-sale financing to pay for shop time.

I wonder if they will offer a cheaper single speed version.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

modifier said:


> I also think it's a little premature of them to sell bikes before they can sell the spare tires that the frame is dedicated to. Not that you couldn't run others, but then what is the point?


+1 - It would be a little sad to slash open your Knard on a chunk of glass and not be able to buy a replacement...

They may also be doing a small run of production tires/rims/frames to see if people have any problems that didn't show up in the prototype testing before they commit to a bigger production run.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

Krampus has a song and quite a nice one it is.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

"They may also be doing a small run of production tires/rims/frames to see if people have any problems that didn't show up in the prototype testing before they commit to a bigger production run."

^This^

Also, new format, try it and see if it flies. Flops? Not like you had 5000 of them in the back room at that point. 

Not like every single guy on the interwebz that thinks it's cool, will actually translate into a purchase....


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## Hugor (Aug 27, 2008)

I would love one of these. Looks like such great fun. I would like to know whether these wheels will fit in an existing suspension 29 fork?


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## JordyB (Oct 26, 2007)

I just want tires, I already have a frame and 50mm wheels to use them with. Sucks I have to wait till next summer to taste the candy...


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## Mr Pink57 (Jul 30, 2009)

Someone had a Krumpus at my last race series. I did see the guy briefly and do know he works for Surly.


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## El Train (Apr 21, 2007)

So I was going to buy a Karate Monkey or similar, but I can't see any legitimate reason not to go with a Krampus instead if the geometry is within reason. I would build it with normal 29er wheels and tires, and maybe later get the 3" stuff. Thoughts? It seems to have all the same features, plus slacker head angle (which I very much like) and the ability to run big rubber....


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

El Train said:


> So I was going to buy a Karate Monkey or similar, but I can't see any legitimate reason not to go with a Krampus instead if the geometry is within reason. I would build it with normal 29er wheels and tires, and maybe later get the 3" stuff. Thoughts? It seems to have all the same features, plus slacker head angle (which I very much like) and the ability to run big rubber....


Karate Monkey always should be a little more manoeuvrable than a Krampus because of its steeper steering angle and shorter chainstays. Suppose Krampus will be a little more "downhill" orientated - which must not be bad


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## NOBBY605 (Apr 12, 2008)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Just got a call from Surly/QBP last night (I'd just closed, glad I took the call!)
> 
> Apparently they are prebooking these, and not surprisingly, expect the first somewhat limited run, to sell out fast.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the heads up MCC...just made my pre-order:thumbsup:


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## dakota650r (Nov 5, 2011)

I think it's a great idea to have wider bigger wheels. I think that if there were a 650B class wide rim with fat tires that would fit in existing 29er forks and frames, that would be a great way for current owners of 29ers to dip their toes in the wider fatter tire waters.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Ohhh man. I am wondering now how long it'll be before I can snag just a rim and tiret


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

What's the official cost for frame? Rims? Tires? 

Looking to possibly order these vs a complete bike.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

appleSSeed said:


> What's the official cost for frame? Rims? Tires?
> 
> Looking to possibly order these vs a complete bike.


The complete bike is said to be available in March of 2013.


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

dakota650r said:


> I think it's a great idea to have wider bigger wheels. I think that if there were a 650B class wide rim with fat tires that would fit in existing 29er forks and frames, that would be a great way for current owners of 29ers to dip their toes in the wider fatter tire waters.


650B is not magic. It doesn't make chainstays on skinny wheeled bikes wider. Do take a ruler to 29" bike's chainstays, see how a 3" tire would do in terms of lateral clearance.


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## KeviChe (Jan 5, 2012)

*BFL outer diameter will not clear the Jones*

Facebook

Facebook

It appears that the Krampus will not Fit in my Jones Steel Spaceframe


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

KeviChe said:


> Facebook
> 
> Facebook
> 
> It appears that the Krampus will not Fit in my Jones Steel Spaceframe


Those links didn't work for me. What is the actual OA Diameter and width of a BFL?


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## KeviChe (Jan 5, 2012)

The width varies on the Rim. Inflated at 10psi I measured OD is 29"


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## KeviChe (Jan 5, 2012)

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/409584_340660356016501_1802268437_n.jpg


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

*Really?*



KeviChe said:


> Facebook
> 
> Facebook
> 
> It appears that the Krampus will not Fit in my Jones Steel Spaceframe


I have BFL mounted on a 72mm rim on my Spaceframe (Truss fork) and there is plenty of clearance.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

KeviChe said:


> Facebook
> 
> Facebook
> 
> It appears that the Krampus will not Fit in my Jones Steel Spaceframe


Well, that's what happens when you try to mount a bicycle frame inside another bicycle frame. 

Y'all should try to start another "Knard/Rabbit Hole in other bikes" thread for your respective bicycles. I started one in the Surly forum for Ogres/Karate Monkeys so as to not clutter up this Krampus thread with tire fitment questions about other bikes.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

KeviChe said:


> The width varies on the Rim. Inflated at 10psi I measured OD is 29"


So basically the same as a 3.8 fat tire. All my fat tires are 29" on 47mm rims and 3 1/4" wide. The Nates are a little wider.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

modifier said:


> So basically the same as a 3.8 fat tire. All my fat tires are 29" on 47mm rims and 3 1/4" wide. The Nates are a little wider.


My 29 x 2.4" Racing Ralph is over 29" OD mounted on Flow rims. Knards will be something like the 30.4-30.5" Surly has said they'll be - similar to a BFL 4.7" tire.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

I have a frameset on pre-order, with rims and tires. This ain't cheap stuff. My LBS guy tells me that Surly expects to ship framesets in December. I asked for a Large. No geometry information available, so that will have to do.

So, four months or so to assemble the rest of the parts to build a bike. There is little published information about the frame. I guess I can assume a seatpost diameter of 27.2mm, since the other Surly frames use that size. Did eventually find that the rims are drilled with 64 holes, so I will need 32 hole hubs.

Thanks for the heads-up on pre-ordering. I don't know if they sold out the pre-order amount yet, but I did get my order in on August 6th. I am excited, but do not like to wait four months for the frameset, rims, and tires.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

vikb said:


> Knards will be something like the 30.4-30.5" Surly has said they'll be - similar to a BFL 4.7" tire.


That is the statement that prompted me to ask how big BFLs were. Someone measured them and said they were 29" in dia. That is not 30.5".

My 2.5 Dissents are around 29.5" so I wouldn't be surprised it the Knards are 30.5"

But the BFLs do not appear to be that big.


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

modifier said:


> That is the statement that prompted me to ask how big BFLs were. Someone measured them and said they were 29" in dia. That is not 30.5".
> 
> My 2.5 Dissents are around 29.5" so I wouldn't be surprised it the Knards are 30.5"
> 
> But the BFLs do not appear to be that big.


Who stated this? Seems like measuring error. 29" tall implies just 3.25" above the rim edge.
Maybe on a crazy wide rim it will flatten out to be 29". and for the bike computer 29" x pi might be quite accurate considering sag.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

Provided by Keviche



KeviChe said:


> The width varies on the Rim. Inflated at 10psi I measured OD is 29"


I have found that rim width doesn't make much difference in diameter either despite the logic that it should. Maybe if you went from a 1/2'' to a 4" it might but going from say 25mm to 35mm it didn't.


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## CJones (Aug 3, 2004)

DavyRay said:


> I have a frameset on pre-order, with rims and tires. This ain't cheap stuff. My LBS guy tells me that Surly expects to ship framesets in December.


So how much are they? I've read $750 for the frameset. How much for rims and tires?

Thanks!


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

$150 per rim plus around $125 per tire. 

yikes. 

I fold.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

appleSSeed said:


> $150 per rim plus around $125 per tire.
> 
> yikes.
> 
> I fold.


Holy crap!!! 
I understand the challenges inherent when starting something different and new like this, economies of scale, yadda yadda yadda...but this is a lot. Even at shop-guy pricing, I don't know if I can justify these. Hopefully when they sell a bunch, the pricing will come down.

Los


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## KeviChe (Jan 5, 2012)

Tripower said:


> I have BFL mounted on a 72mm rim on my Spaceframe (Truss fork) and there is plenty of clearance.


The crown clearance is what Im concerned about, not the width. The Knard is suppuse to be 30.5" OD tall. Even with my Hans Dampf 2.35 on P35 rim, there is 1/2" of clearance.

No matter, I think Id like to ride these tires double fat anyway.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

appleSSeed said:


> $150 per rim plus around $125 per tire.
> 
> yikes.
> 
> I fold.


Haha, I own a fatbike, so I looked at those prices and went "hmm, that's about right."


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

27.2 seatpost is a big mistake, I hope they don't go this route. I bend these suckers like they're wet noodles. Yes Thomsons are hard to bend, but why choose a size that is prone to bending? I'm only 185, if I rode like I do and were 210, I don't think a 27.2 thomson would survive.

30.9 and 31.6 are very common sizes and both would do a much better job, especially on this new more downhill oriented 29er.

And price... I was thinking I'd go ahead and order one of these, but it looks like just buying the necessary pieces is over $1k (shop cost), so I'll probably wait and hope economies of scale make this more affordable in another year.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

PretendGentleman said:


> 27.2 seatpost is a big mistake, I hope they don't go this route. I bend these suckers like they're wet noodles. Yes Thomsons are hard to bend, but why choose a size that is prone to bending? I'm only 185, if I rode like I do and were 210, I don't think a 27.2 thomson would survive.
> 
> 30.9 and 31.6 are very common sizes and both would do a much better job, especially on this new more downhill oriented 29er.
> 
> And price... I was thinking I'd go ahead and order one of these, but it looks like just buying the necessary pieces is over $1k (shop cost), so I'll probably wait and hope economies of scale make this more affordable in another year.


Not to keep harping on the "I guess you've never owned a fatbike" thing, but the economies of scale thing probably won't work out to your advantage within a year... as an example, the Surly Endomorph tire, which has been around since at least 2006, is still fetching $110 at a lot of vendors. You can find them here and there for $70 or so, but I bet a loooooooot more of those have been sold in the past 6 years than what I reckon the quantities for the Knard will be in the first year. The Larry, Nate, Husker Du's, etc are constantly up in the $110-120 range.

As far as the 27.2mm seatpost, I dunno, Surly likes that for some reason, probably for vibration damping(?)- but FWIW, my Pugsley has seen mostly rock crawling and rough trail riding, and I've never bent a seatpost, and I'm 200lbs without gear, and like to sit most of the time. I did bend the stock seat though, but that was because I had it setback quite a bit.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

appleSSeed said:


> $150 per rim plus around $125 per tire.
> 
> yikes.
> 
> I fold.


The low tpi tires will probably be less.

With their fat tires the price keeps going up, as well as quality I think, and the price of a top line fat tire is in the $150 range. Gotta pay if you want to play. Nothing rides like a fat tire. I wish these were a little fatter actually unless they do end up at a true 3" width. 32" dia wouldn't hurt either. I don't know if there will be any advantage if they are only a tiny bit taller than a fat tire but not as wide. Fat tires work better than 29.5" 29er tires.

As far as the rims, $150 sound a little greedy. It doesn't really cost much more to make a 50mm than a 35mm and look where P35s are in price.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

XJaredX said:


> As far as the 27.2mm seatpost, I dunno, Surly likes that for some reason, probably for vibration damping(?)- but FWIW, my Pugsley has seen mostly rock crawling and rough trail riding, and I've never bent a seatpost, and I'm 200lbs without gear, and like to sit most of the time. I did bend the stock seat though, but that was because I had it setback quite a bit.


I've been running an Alien lightweight aluminum 27.2 seat post for at least 10 years on one bike that has morphed into many different creations. All of them ridden hard, and I have never had an issue. Skinny does provide for a little bit a give and makes for a better ride. I'm in the 200lb range too. My 215lb friend who breaks things regularly road it the other day and it survived.

27.2 titanium would probably make for a nice ride.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

modifier said:


> As far as the rims, $150 sound a little greedy. It doesn't really cost much more to make a 50mm than a 35mm and look where P35s are in price.


It's all about volume of production not the quantity of aluminum used. P35s will sell 100 to every Rabbit Hole rim sold that drops the cost significantly.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

XJaredX said:


> Haha, I own a fatbike, so I looked at those prices and went "hmm, that's about right."


Yeah, but on the flip side. For those prices, I'd rather just go full fat since it will be a second bike anyway. I wonder how many other people will thing along the same lines. A 65mm Marge Lite and a Husker Du really aren't that much heavier.

Some people may want it for a one bike quiver, I totally get that.


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2011)

*Surly details*

We'll be posting extensively throughout the week starting Monday August 13th about all of our new gizmos and do-dads on our blog at surlybikes dot com. We will try and cover all of your questions we've seen on these forums.

End transmission.

BoB


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## grunkster (Feb 3, 2011)

Seems VERY greedy on these tires. As a motocross/off road motorcycle rider, we pay $70 for top shelf terrain specific full knobby tires from major mfg. like Dunlop Michelin Bridgestone.....just sayin.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

The tires are only worth what people will pay for them. I have a feeling that the prices will stay for now. As previously mentioned, fatbike tires are selling well around that price.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

CJones said:


> So how much are they? I've read $750 for the frameset. How much for rims and tires?
> 
> Thanks!


On the phone, my LBS guy said $725 for the frameset, $150 for the rim, $90 for the 27tpi tire, and $120-130 for the 120tpi tire. This was all verbal. I was a bit shocked at the prices, but made the pre-order anyway. I went for the 120tpi tires.

I'm now looking for parts to complete the build in four months or so. I am actually considering making a gruppo by robbing parts from my 2007 Diamondback Response Sport. Wouldn't that be cool? Not exactly like the SLX gruppo planned for the production bike. That would be Hayes mechanical disk brakes and Alvio derailleur.

I am going to attend a promo event in Lake Norman State Park. Troutman, NC this upcoming weekend. I hope to see a Krampus or two there.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

grunkster said:


> Seems VERY greedy on these tires. As a motocross/off road motorcycle rider, we pay $70 for top shelf terrain specific full knobby tires from major mfg. like Dunlop Michelin Bridgestone.....just sayin.


The comparison between bike tires and moto/car tires is invalid. I get what you are saying, but it's apples and oranges.

As far as I understand, Surly, when they came out with the Endomorph, had to contract with Innova to manfacture a mold large enough to make that tire- nothing that big heretofore had existed. That costs $$$.

I can't say what went into making a 29x3 tire, but yeah, apples and oranges.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> We'll be posting extensively throughout the week starting Monday August 13th about all of our new gizmos and do-dads on our blog at surlybikes dot com. We will try and cover all of your questions we've seen on these forums.
> 
> End transmission.
> 
> BoB


Thanks BoB. You rule.


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## grunkster (Feb 3, 2011)

i agree with apples/oranges comparing to mx bike tires...however they keep talking about the tires being "moto inspired"!! Oh and yes THANKS Bob...will be checking the site...here's hoping that frame will be orderable in that metallic green!!!!


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## Jingleman (Sep 15, 2004)

Cloxxki said:


> I am 6'4" and I know not a single person with longer legs than myself without being inches taller. I have done XC racing up the steepest hills, and have learned to shift my weight the hard way.
> 
> IMO wheels, cranks and chainstays are all neglected height-specific parameters on the bikes. Standardized to one size fits no-one for cost and simplicity. No reason why S and M frames should share the same wheels, someone is drawing the short straw. There should be a wheel size difference of about 2" for a 2" frame height increment. Wheels are just less than your inseam. 2"in the frame is 4" in the body.
> 
> Tall riders will need to man up, and deal with long chainstays. Learrn to loft a front wheel by will, not by merely allowing it to loft.


good point!..but I guess that short riders could enjoy the benefits of bigger wheels as well..but Im with you about chain stay lengths : longer legs and arms apply more leverage to lift front wheel..I also would think that smaller and lighter riders would be happier if they could choose frames with thinner and more comfortable steel or alu tubes..I remember that past Commencal frames used to have different diameter tubes for small and bigger frames..


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

Until the US realizes significant bike part production capabilities:
Silver Update 8/10/12 American Delusion - YouTube

Do realize that the USD is losing value relative to the Chinese Yuan. Things get less cheap, and more expensive. Get used to it. If you are to complain, you are a few decades too late. This process cannot be reversed.
American cars in Yuan must be getting cheaper quickly. If they can even find some models they'd want to drive.
Check out the video. I was surprised as well on some little facts on China.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

Jingleman said:


> good point!..but I guess that short riders could enjoy the benefits of bigger wheels as well..but Im with you about chain stay lengths : longer legs and arms apply more leverage to lift front wheel..I also would think that smaller and lighter riders would be happier if they could choose frames with thinner and more comfortable steel or alu tubes..I remember that past Commencal frames used to have different diameter tubes for small and bigger frames..


I think it's not well thought out when big guys, 250 to 300lbs, think they should be riding the same bike that 150lb guys ride and think are suffering greatly if they can't. I'm 200 so I'm basically in the middle but I still build to suit. Light where it can be and stronger where it needs to be.

And yeah if you are outside of average, maybe < than 5'6" or > than 6'4", smaller or bigger wheel size makes a lot of sense.

I saw a really tricked out triathlon road bike a few days ago. The entire thing was carbon and it was built around 650 wheels. It was for a guys wife and she was going to be in an Iron Man in a couple of weeks. I bet it fit her perfectly and probably weighed 12 lbs.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

Cloxxki said:


> Until the US realizes significant bike part production capabilities:
> Silver Update 8/10/12 American Delusion - YouTube
> 
> Do realize that the USD is losing value relative to the Chinese Yuan. Things get less cheap, and more expensive. Get used to it. If you are to complain, you are a few decades too late. This process cannot be reversed.
> ...


Maybe eventually there will be an upsurge in their buying US goods because of it and things will even out.


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## robtre (Apr 9, 2008)

I had the opportunity to demo a Krampus today and I loved it! No time soon will my bike budget allow for such a niche bike though.


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## KeviChe (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re*



robtre said:


> I had the opportunity to demo a Krampus today and I loved it! No time soon will my bike budget allow for such a niche bike though.


I would like to hear more of your thoughts on how it rides. Big lazy steamroller? Still has some numbleness like a quick handling singletracker? Or just an big fat Huffy?


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

robtre said:


> I had the opportunity to demo a Krampus today and I loved it! No time soon will my bike budget allow for such a niche bike though.


Hmmm. I got to ride a Krampus today at a demo. I just took it on the easy trail. No surprise, it rolled over exposed tree roots and little rocks with far less wrenching than my 26" bike. A couple of us there have framesets on order. One guy rode the large and extra large and changed his pre-order to extra large. I decided to leave mine at large, even though I had no problem riding the extra large.

The really bad news was that I got to also ride a Salsa Spearfish 2 and loved it. Even with my limited experience, I was faster on the easy trail with it than on the Krampus. The worse news is that it costs around $2800 or so.

Nice demo at the lake.


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

Rode the mighty Krampus this weekend! Had a large frame already on order-but found the XL was spot on for me. I already ride 2.4 Mtn Kings on P35 rims-and I do not think the tires will work on these "little" rims-they are big,really big. The ride was just enough more cush than the set I use-enough to convince me to get the whole pakage complete(and the green paint rocks!) As a rigid rider-not racer-whole love rough tecnical trails-this will be a perfect bike. It handles very well on singletrack-good balence. Also likes to go fast in the roots. I took the roughest rooty lines-and also rode my own wheels the same-it was eye opening how much smoother. I didn't go real low on the tire pressure-did'nt want to risk a problem-I could have gone much lower. It rides like a 29er-not a fatbike though-if you get a chance try one. I am stoked-now to wait the mothes away till it comes in. I cant post pics-but there are some on my FB....bz truewheel. I compared a 3.8/3.0.2.2 in one shot-shows alot! Also saw/played with 2013 Salsa's....Mukluk/Spearfish/Horsethief/El Mar.....the line is gonna be in my shop if I can swing it...all are very empressive this year!


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## gridtalker (Dec 7, 2006)

Tikesdad said:


> It's the bike I've been day dreaming about.


Its super cool


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## dvo1 (May 28, 2006)

I also got a chance to ride the mighty Krampus last weekend, it is not a 29er and it is not a fat bike, somewhere in the middle, really fun to ride, I am trying to decide if I neeone or not at the moment.


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

I've had my LBS working on lining up an XL for me the past couple of weeks... Fingers crossed but it is looking doubtful that anything gets into Canada but hopefully a few trickle north of the border. I don't want to wait until next year!


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

29buzz said:


> Rode the mighty Krampus this weekend! Had a large frame already on order-but found the XL was spot on for me. I already ride 2.4 Mtn Kings on P35 rims-and I do not think the tires will work on these "little" rims-they are big,really big. The ride was just enough more cush than the set I use-enough to convince me to get the whole pakage complete(and the green paint rocks!) As a rigid rider-not racer-whole love rough tecnical trails-this will be a perfect bike. It handles very well on singletrack-good balence. Also likes to go fast in the roots. I took the roughest rooty lines-and also rode my own wheels the same-it was eye opening how much smoother. I didn't go real low on the tire pressure-did'nt want to risk a problem-I could have gone much lower. It rides like a 29er-not a fatbike though-if you get a chance try one. I am stoked-now to wait the mothes away till it comes in. I cant post pics-but there are some on my FB....bz truewheel. I compared a 3.8/3.0.2.2 in one shot-shows alot! Also saw/played with 2013 Salsa's....Mukluk/Spearfish/Horsethief/El Mar.....the line is gonna be in my shop if I can swing it...all are very empressive this year!


Hey, Buzz. I'm the guy who rode that XL right after you. I did not change my order. Are your arms longer than mine? I could not decide that the larger frame was better for me.

--- Wild Boars


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

DavyRay......I went with the XL because I will set mine up much taller in the front-taller stem and a riser bar-I ride my bars high. The LG would have worked,but with a really high stem/riser. In just the parking lot-the XL felt better. I have a 24.9 TT now and a 110mm 17d stem on my current ride. I have tires,rims/frameset ordered-will build up as my only mtb...I really loved the ride. 

Keep on hangin'


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've read that the Krampus has a slack HT angle. Anyone got an idea of what that means to Surly? I'd love to know the HT angle with the stock fork and the fork length.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

I think it's 70


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

appleSSeed said:


> I think it's 70


That's not slack. 64 is slack. 67-68 is sought after these days by those who have tried it.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

modifier said:


> That's not slack. 64 is slack. 67-68 is sought after these days by those who have tried it.


Are you the guy listing eBay auctions with "Sought After" in the headline? 

I'm just replying to dudes post with what "I think" is the headtube angle of the Surly Krampus...it might be 69, but that's still not "sought after" I guess.


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## JordyB (Oct 26, 2007)

"Wherein We Attempt to Answer Your Krampus Questions": Blog | Surly Bikes


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## kustomz (Jan 6, 2004)

modifier said:


> That's not slack. 64 is slack. 67-68 is sought after these days by those who have tried it.


It seems like there would be some sort of trade off when you stray from the norm, otherwise everyone would do it? As someone that has only ridden bikes with typical XC hartdtail geometry, so I am curious to hear from people that have ridden slack tubes what the benefits would be?

I am currently intrigued by the slack 64.3 degrees of the Generator!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

kustomz said:


> It seems like there would be some sort of trade off when you stray from the norm, otherwise everyone would do it? As someone that has only ridden bikes with typical XC hartdtail geometry, so I am curious to hear from people that have ridden slack tubes what the benefits would be?
> 
> I am currently intrigued by the slack 64.3 degrees of the Generator!


My local riding is rocky rooty BC all mountain terrain. I've got an XC geo 29er hard tail [~71 deg HT angle] and it struggles a bit. So I'm interested in trying something with slacker angles to tame the trails.

My 26er MTB has a 67 deg HT angle and that rides well here both up and down.


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## Yoreskillz (Feb 10, 2011)

Oops....:madman:


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

Still trying to make sense of sizing for a possible order. For folks who have ridden the bike: for someone around 6.1, who likes a ETT around 24.6 or so, am I looking at L or XL? I know there are personal preferences etc., but just curious if a big mistake one way or other.


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

Long top tube, short stem, really wide bars. This is EXACTLY how I like my bikes to fit, this thing is gonna be awesome. 44mm head tube is also most welcome as well as I ride slammed and am always trying to lower stack height. 

Stoked!


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

anthony.delorenzo said:


> Long top tube, short stem, really wide bars. This is EXACTLY how I like my bikes to fit, this thing is gonna be awesome.


Same here! :yesnod:


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

daves4mtb said:


> I'm 225, and have ridden 27.2 seatposts on many bikes without problem. Either your form is shiite or your buttcheeks must have superpowers.


or maybe you ride slow and gentle? Not sure why you think these are the only two possibilities. But what can I say, I'm fast and I ride hard and maybe my cheeks do have power, but I don't think they're super. Riding a hardtail, having a bmx background, being in pretty good shape, taking downhills faster than average, all of these things lead to what is perhaps an above average requirement for seatpost strength.

MTB's shouldn't be designed to meet just the demands of the average rider, but a reasonably extreme rider. The Krampus is an extreme sort of bike, so if somebody who is in the top 10% for seatpost abuse on an xc bike has problems with the component, i"d say its under-engineered.


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

kustomz said:


> It seems like there would be some sort of trade off when you stray from the norm, otherwise everyone would do it? As someone that has only ridden bikes with typical XC hartdtail geometry, so I am curious to hear from people that have ridden slack tubes what the benefits would be?
> 
> I am currently intrigued by the slack 64.3 degrees of the Generator!


I took a quick look and measurement of the generator (a hybrid commuter type bike) on the website you linked, that bike is right around 73° HTA, nowhere near 64°.

I took a measurement from a sideview photo of Krampus, it is indeed very close to 70° HTA, effective seat tube angle was around 74°.

Very slack HTA is good for going downhill since you are less likely to endo over the bars on a downhill, slack HTA helps compensate for the fact that the hill is not level ground. Other than that, a slacker HTA makes the bike track stronger and steer slow. Steering feeling get really ugly fast if you dont pair a slack HTA with a fork that has enough rake to keep the trail within reason. Slack HTA will increase the front-center measurement (and wheelbase) so the bike also becomes less nimble just due to the extra length.


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## kustomz (Jan 6, 2004)

GrayJay said:


> I took a quick look and measurement of the generator (a hybrid commuter type bike) on the website you linked, that bike is right around 73° HTA, nowhere near 64°.
> 
> I took a measurement from a sideview photo of Krampus, it is indeed very close to 70° HTA, effective seat tube angle was around 74°.
> 
> Very slack HTA is good for going downhill since you are less likely to endo over the bars on a downhill, slack HTA helps compensate for the fact that the hill is not level ground. Other than that, a slacker HTA makes the bike track stronger and steer slow. Steering feeling get really ugly fast if you dont pair a slack HTA with a fork that has enough rake to keep the trail within reason. Slack HTA will increase the front-center measurement (and wheelbase) so the bike also becomes less nimble just due to the extra length.


My mistake, I was talking about the seat tube angle and everyone else was talking head tube angle. I will go back to being a lurker since I have no need for a Krampus anyway... enjoy!


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

chunkylover53 said:


> Still trying to make sense of sizing for a possible order. For folks who have ridden the bike: for someone around 6.1, who likes a ETT around 24.6 or so, am I looking at L or XL? I know there are personal preferences etc., but just curious if a big mistake one way or other.


I don't have enough experience to know much about sizing. I did ride a L and an XL. I am about 6'1". I have a Large on order, and decided to leave it at that. I took the large on a trail, and was comfortable on it. I also rode the XL around the parking lot, and did not see any advantage to the larger frame. I could reach everything.

Buzz, on the other hand, decide to change his order to an XL after his test rides. Have you read the Surly Blog comments on sizing? There is a link to that a few posts back.


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## Careby (Nov 27, 2011)

It will be interesting to see what sort of rack, fender, and bottle cage mounts the final Krampus gets. If it's loaded like the Ogre, I'm in for a frameset. If not, I probably can't justify buying it. I'm sure it isn't really intended to be an all-purpose bike, but I see potential for all terrain touring.


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## Soupboy (Jan 13, 2004)

The bike is cool, the tire equally if not more so. Looking forward to stuffing into a rigid fork...could also be interesting for DH 29ers with dual crown forks...


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

I got a Large to try for a while, will do some riding in the dirt this afternoon and in the weekend. It is fun how good it rolls on pavement with less then 1 bar tire pressure. We have quite some sandy tracks here, must be great to float through these sections. This is one of the pre production bikes, so final specs may be different (like the double front setup)

Krampus thing | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

JJT... please update after your extensive ride(s). This bike is on my short list and I really want to hear some real-world feedback. Cheers!


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

JJT said:


> I got a Large to try for a while, will do some riding in the dirt this afternoon and in the weekend. It is fun how good it rolls on pavement with less then 1 bar tire pressure. We have quite some sandy tracks here, must be great to float through these sections. This is one of the pre production bikes, so final specs may be different (like the double front setup)
> 
> Krampus thing | Flickr - Photo Sharing!












I hadn't noticed that the extra holes allowing for offset would also allow for cross-lacing. For these tall wheels and trying to ride like a dh bike, cross-lacing seems like it would be a great choice. Not sure if the angle of the nipple coming off the rim would be an issue, but having the option seems like a good thing.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

PretendGentleman said:


> I hadn't noticed that the extra holes allowing for offset would also allow for cross-lacing. For these tall wheels and trying to ride like a dh bike, cross-lacing seems like it would be a great choice. Not sure if the angle of the nipple coming off the rim would be an issue, but having the option seems like a good thing.


with brass maybe it would be ok, would go that route with alloy though


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## joop (Dec 11, 2006)

Please Jelle,

Can I test it within the next week? I am in Leiden, so not too far from you..


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## Yoreskillz (Feb 10, 2011)

Your Rabbit Hole Looks Knardy

"We've told you most of the pertinent details of the new 29x3.0 Surly Knard tire. It'll be about 820g for the 120tpi folding version and pretty close to that for the 27tpi. It's got blocks and whatnot for a tread pattern and it is 100% the best thing ever in the history of the universe and if you don't buy two you don't know anything about anything and you're a big jerk. It's also a very nice tire.

So nice that we're going to make it in a 26x3.8" too.

THE RABBIT HOLE

It's a 50mm rim built for getting wide with 29ers. It will fit 29" tires down to about 2.4 or 2.5" and - of course - up to the Surly 29x3.0 Knard with which it was tandemly designed. It's got all of the nice features of our fat-bicycling rims - the cutouts for weight savings, the 64 spoke hole pattern for symmetric or asymmetric builds - but it's, you know, bigger in the circumference sort of way. It will weigh about 700grams and will help you be a better person.

It's a single wall rim, but only mostly. There are actually internal spaces near the sidewall areas that make it a bit of a hybrid between single wall and double. Cut one in half and you'll see.

This sucka is going to come in traditional light-sucking black or in fancy shiny silver. Oh yes.

Here are some numbers that might help you decide if Knard or Rabbit Hole are right for you:

The Knard 3.0 tire on a Rabbit Hole 50mm rim will be 75.8mm/77.7mm (casing/tread) wide and will have a diameter or 779.4mm (at 19psi).

The Knard 3.0 tire on a Velocity P35 will be 72.6mm/76.7mm wide and have a diameter of 778.6mm.

A Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.4" tire will be 66.0mm/59.2mm wide and have a diameter of 752.2mm when mounted on a Rabbit Hole rim (at 35psi).

A Continental Trail King 2.4" tire will be 65.5mm/57.1mm wide and have a diameter of 759.5mm when mounted on a Rabbit Hole rim (at 35psi).

(The above numbers, as you may guess, will have some plus or minus to them when you mount up your own tires, because that's how the world works Ricky.)

That's what you get for today. Thanks for hanging with our scribblings this week. Please let us know if you have questions about any of this, ok?

Thanks,
Skip"


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

The Krampus fork is supposed to be 120mm corrected. I guess that might be for a regular 29" tire, as visually there is little distance between the tire and the head tube. It's a tall tire, taller than I though from from pictures. 30.685" across of which 2x72.2mm rubber supposing a 635mm rim. It's A LOT of tire. It needs almost 15mm more clearance for the same amunt of travel, and then you need to select a fork to swallow the 3.06" true width...


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## jave-mtr (Jan 4, 2007)

Are the dropouts just the regular slotted dropouts like on the Karate Monkey and other Surly frames without any adjustment screws or anything? I'm just wondering what the insert is that I see in this picture:


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## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

Monkey Nuts | Parts | Surly Bikes

Spacers for running a RD.


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## Furball the Mystery Cat (May 18, 2007)

daves4mtb said:


> I'm 225, and have ridden 27.2 seatposts on many bikes without problem. Either your form is shiite or your buttcheeks must have superpowers.


You should also consider how far the seatpost is extended.

A long extended seatpost creates more leverage for something to break.

I'm only about 155, but with long legs. I've broken one seat post and cracked one frame near the top of the seat tube.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

rob1035 said:


> Monkey Nuts | Parts | Surly Bikes
> 
> Spacers for running a RD.


Wrong. You need it to move the rear wheel back if you want to use a *front* derailleur. Otherwise you can change the effective chainstay length for having a more manoeuvrable bike or not.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

DerBergschreck said:


> Wrong. You need it to move the rear wheel back if you want to use a *front* derailleur. Otherwise you can change the effective chainstay length for having a more manoeuvrable bike or not.


Is this because the front derailleur cage hits the tire itself when slammed forward? Maybe a road double derailleur with its shorter cage would work well?


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## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

dang, I botched that. I do wonder why they spec the Monkey Nuts if the stock complete bike is a 1x10?


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

rob1035 said:


> dang, I botched that. I do wonder why they spec the Monkey Nuts if the stock complete bike is a 1x10?


Well, I assume to leave options open in case you want to run a normal tire and shorten the wheelbase or something, I dunno.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

How did you get one already dude?!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

rob1035 said:


> dang, I botched that. I do wonder why they spec the Monkey Nuts if the stock complete bike is a 1x10?


Some of the prototype Krampus rigs I've seen had a front derailleur so they are not setup in stock form.

Has Surly released a full complete Krampus spec parts list yet?


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

Well, I had some really nice rides with the Krampus. I do not own a fatbike, I tried some in sandy conditions so I know what it feels like. The area where we live here in the Netherlands has sandy/hardpack tracks with quite some roots we do not have hills or mountains, but we have shorter and longer, steeper and less steep climbs, enough variation to make an off road ride lots of fun.

I started my ride with a little more as 1 bar (on my old worn SKS rennkompressor, not sure how accurate that is..) and immediately felt the traction this rim tire combo has, amazing how fast I could corner. Take the difference in traction between 26 and 29 inch, double it and add it to the traction you have on a normal 29-er. That should gives an impression! Climbing on loose sandy climbs was lots of fun, sit down on the point of the saddle and keep on pedaling. It only got better when lowering the pressure some more. This made the tire a little squizzie, but I never felt the rim hitting a root. Tires float over small thing on the trail, more or less like the fatbikes do.

The bike is 15kg (or 30lbs??), riding the flats is no problem, climbing is also no problem but off course you feel the difference if you are used to a less heavy bike. The bike really shines when you get the change to play, singletrack, jumps, drops, fallen trees, this bike begs to be played with. The wide bars give lots of control, although I would use some other bars on the bike if it was my own.. I am a bigger rider and for me the weight was not an issue. Bunny hopping was no problem, the float of the tires was great on sandy spots in fast downhills, I really had a good time with the bike.

This is a pre production model, and a SRAM double crank was used. The derailler had some minor rub against the tire when using the small chainring, and the chain was rubbing the tire in the smallest gear. Production models should have 1 x 10, and with a MWOD crank the problem should be solved.














































JJ


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## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

Guh.

Just when I thought I had finally finished/paid off "the last bike I'll ever buy".


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

Two questions (not sure if these have been answered already):

1) Is surly going to be fully prepared to meet the demand for rims and tires (beyond complete bikes)?

2) How much lighter will a Knard wheel be than a comparable 50mm 26" rim and Larry tired wheel?


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## JordyB (Oct 26, 2007)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> Two questions (not sure if these have been answered already):
> 
> 1) Is surly going to be fully prepared to meet the demand for rims and tires (beyond complete bikes)?
> 
> 2) How much lighter will a Knard wheel be than a comparable 50mm 26" rim and Larry tired wheel?


2. Which Larry? if the Knard is 820g claimed and a Larry is 1300-1400g, your talking aleast a pound per wheel since a 50mm 26er will weight less than its 29er bigger brother.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

JJT... Thanks for the review. I think you helped me make my mind up. I will be getting one. I have two 9'ers (ss & geared) and a fat bike, the Krampus sounds like the best of both worlds. I don't need another bike, but I need the Krampus.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Bacons said:


> ...I don't need another bike, but I need the Krampus.


This! :thumbsup:


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## Soupboy (Jan 13, 2004)

nitrousjunky said:


> Have you confirmed this???? Mikesee- can you tell us if it fits in a Salsa CroMoto Grande Fork??


I've not, but based on details elsewhere and my own steed it appears there is *plenty* of room.

Picture attached is with a chubby Nobby Nic on a Stan's Flow in the Salsa Cro Moto Grande 20mm TA rigid fork - massive room in all material directions for a Knard/Rabbit Farkinghohl


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> Two questions (not sure if these have been answered already):
> 
> 1) Is surly going to be fully prepared to meet the demand for rims and tires (beyond complete bikes)?
> 
> 2) How much lighter will a Knard wheel be than a comparable 50mm 26" rim and Larry tired wheel?


1) I doubt it. It takes A LOT of cash to preorder this stuff from Asia. Long, long in advance. Payments have long gone out, before our response was measured probably.
2) Yeah, see how much lighter these tires are. A 50mm 26" rim, with luck, is a tiny bit lighter than what Krampus has. But then you have an under-rimmed Larry vs a full-on 29+.

Spokes will be a bit heavier on 29". But who's counting grams on a steel fat bike? Go and have China make you a carbon frame and 622x50mm carbon rims. Carbon forks can be had off the shelf that fit.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

Cloxxki said:


> 1) I doubt it. It takes A LOT of cash to preorder this stuff from Asia. Long, long in advance. Payments have long gone out, before our response was measured probably.
> 2) Yeah, see how much lighter these tires are. A 50mm 26" rim, with luck, is a tiny bit lighter than what Krampus has. But then you have an under-rimmed Larry vs a full-on 29+.
> 
> Spokes will be a bit heavier on 29". But who's counting grams on a steel fat bike? Go and have China make you a carbon frame and 622x50mm carbon rims. Carbon forks can be had off the shelf that fit.


1) That's kind of what I was thinking. Not sure the average Joe like me will have the opportunity to easily pick up a rim and a couple tires...

2) I'm really eager to build a wheel for the front of my Jones. I'm not really keen on this setup with a 100mm front hub, but I think it will be great on the Jones with the wide hub. And like I said, I guess I'll have to see if and when the parts are available. I'm really looking forward to doing this.


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## KonaSS (Sep 29, 2004)

For those that have test ridden the bike, how bad (slow) do you think the tires will be on the road compared to a normal sized XCish tire?

My local trails are about 13 miles from my house. When I want a long ride, I often ride my bike to the trails and don't mind the extra resistance from the tires. I can't imagine riding to the trails on a Pugsley, but would the Krampus be closer to a normal 29 inch tire? Or closer to a riding a Pugsley?


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

I think it depends on pressure. I did a 20km ride to the trail last sunday with pressure a little over 1 bar, which was OK, I'd say a little slower as a 1.7 bar Racing Ralph 2.4. On the way back I lowered pressure (and I was tired) and then the 6km on road was a little harder, I'd say Pugly with high pressure 

JJ


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

KonaSS said:


> For those that have test ridden the bike, how bad (slow) do you think the tires will be on the road compared to a normal sized XCish tire?
> 
> My local trails are about 13 miles from my house. When I want a long ride, I often ride my bike to the trails and don't mind the extra resistance from the tires. I can't imagine riding to the trails on a Pugsley, but would the Krampus be closer to a normal 29 inch tire? Or closer to a riding a Pugsley?


Hubert rode JJT's sample shortly on the streets and reported no noticable drag compared to his typical XC bikes. This was with the tires at 1 bar.

Although I know where you're coming from, but even with really slow tires, mathemetically, the 13 miles only take you maybe a minute or 2 extra. Not really something to worry over. Hardly worth inflating before the ride out to the trails even, you'll spend more time pumping than you save time in getting there. Tire life expectancy might make it worth it though.

When Hubert rode his Pugsley with Endomorphs next to my 29x2.35" Big Apples on average pavement, a roll-out side by side couldn't determin a real difference either.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

The first Fat Bike that's held any interest for me. Look out bank account!


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## Belatu (Oct 16, 2011)

No XXL. So bummed out...


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## Refujiado (Jul 10, 2008)

I dont know if this has been mentioned before, even tho the knard looks pretty comfy but i would love to run a large marge lite up front with a BL using a moonlander fork or any that would allow it... Has this been verified ?? if its possible with the forks currently on the market ?


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Kinda hoped the tires would look well taller for more cushion!

Tread pattern looks very much Racing Ralph which even in 2.25 form makes for a good all condition tire amazingly so thumbs up there.

Building up a cheap 29er HT rigid soon, I'll have a Carbon Exotic 29er from in the front, I'm presuming that rim and tire will fit in that fork ??

If so cheap upgrade when available, ( cheap ish I guess )

Likely get a full bike for next winter, hoping they expand on the tire range, maybe 3.2's or something!!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Refujiado said:


> I dont know if this has been mentioned before, even tho the knard looks pretty comfy but i would love to run a large marge lite up front with a BL using a moonlander fork or any that would allow it... Has this been verified ?? if its possible with the forks currently on the market ?


There is nothing that will stop you from mounting a Moonlander fork on the front of a Krampus. You'll have to rebuild the front wheel with a 135mm hub and get a new headset, but other than that it shouldn't be an issue.

You can check the length of both forks to ensure you won't be raising or lowering the front end much.


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## paulmaag (Mar 11, 2012)

I use the Carver O'Beast Carbon fork on my Mukluck. Should work great on a 29er. Very smooth and 525 grams!

Paul
Paul's MTB Channel - YouTube


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## bubba13 (Nov 30, 2009)

*Demo ride*

The Salsa / Surly demo van made a stop at one of our local trails last week. They showed up with a wide variety of big tired bikes that included the Krampus. I was able to ride a large Krampus for over an hour on a mix of different dry/loose over hard pack dirt and rock. Moderate climbs and fast downhill that has a mix of chunk and smooth pump track style sections.

The rider: I have been riding MTB for around 23 years. Started out on a rigid bike but I am sure happy with the choices in FS we have today. I prefer riding downhill vs. uphill but like to earn my turns. I currently own two 26" AM/FR bikes and one rigid 29" offroad touring bike. The rigid is too stiff and not aggressive enough for the trail riding I do. It has become a gravel/paved road bike. I am interested in adding a simple and fun trail bike to the quiver so I wanted to try a Krampus.

The fit: I liked the fit of the bike overall. Large frame had good stand over (32 inseam) and roomy cockpit with the ETT. This particular bike had 780mm bars and the stem was too long at around 80-90mm. (I would have set it up with a 70mm stem and 750mm wide bars.) Bottom bracket height was good for rocky technical climbing and I did not have any pedal strikes during the ride. I did not notice any toe overlap with the front tire.

Climbing: The bike was good in or out of the saddle for climbing. Out of the saddle it was very comfortable and balanced. It was easy to put the power down and the front of the bike felt very solid. The back of the bike did allow for some noticeable flex. There was chain to tire rub in the lowest two gears of the 1x10 when cranking out of the saddle. I could also get the disc brake to chirp on the rotor with the frame flex. (yes, the wheel was tight.)

The gearing was a little too high (in my opinion) with the *EDIT: 1x10*, 32x36 and the tall tire combo. I can climb the same trails with a 32x36 gearing and a 27" tall tire without my knees wanting to explode. Tire slippage was minimal on the steep climbs over dry/loose hard pack. The tires felt like oversized Racing Ralph's. They rolled well and had plenty of traction for cornering and climbing for the conditions. I have no idea how they will work in wet conditions.

The ride: On smooth trails the Krampus feels like an overgrown BMX bike. With the seat slammed down it wanted to play on the pump track sections of trail. Unfortunately, that is where the party started and ended for me. The rough sections of trail with rocks and braking bumps were absolute torture. Even at lower speeds and tire pressures as low as I dared, the Krampus delivers a wrist jolting ride. The ride is smoother than my 29" rigid with 2.25 Rapid Robs on 30mm rims, but the Krampus is still a rigid bike. The Knard tire only has so much give before you find the limits at the rim. It has nowhere near the amount of squish a 26 x 3.8/4.7 FAT tire has.

It does not handle like a fat bike though. It rides more like a regular 29" bike than a fat bike. The only oddity was the steering when going into a tight corner. When starting into the corner, there would be a point where the bike would suddenly "fall in" and require a correction. The steering in a tight corner is something a rider would need to adjust to on this bike.

So where does the Krampus fit in? For me, this would be an urban assault vehicle or a bike packing rig. For trail riding I think it offers less than I could get with a good 29" hard tail, 35mm rims, 2.4 tires and a 120-140mm suspension fork. If a good suspension fork was available for the Krampus...:skep:

Thanks to the great Surly/Salsa guys that put on the demo. :thumbsup:


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

If there is tire chain interference with a single that pretty much rules out a double unless you use their MWod setup or something similar. I don't know why they are stuck on a narrow BB. Go 83 with a 150 hub and things could probably be worked out. I'm riding a 32 lb long travel 29er right now and 32/36 is not low enough. I can push it but it hurts sometimes and if the trail gets really steep and technical it's going to be a problem. We aren't all 150lb racer boys. 

Rigid is rigid and these tires aren't really big enough to make up for the handicap. But there is probably a market for this size and maybe down the road they will add a little bit bigger tire with more tread and we will really have something to work with then. 

It's a step in the right direction and no one else is heading that way. So props for that.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

According to what I've seen they're probably going to switch to a 1X? setup which should eliminate some or all of the interference. 

I'm thrilled that it's not a full-on Fat Bike. I would probably use it mostly as a winter training bike anyway as I kind of think the idea of riding a fat bike as your "normal" bike is pretty dumb. That's just me though and I ride a rigid singlespeed nearly 100% of the time. Also, I'm closer to 200 lbs. than 150lbs.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Any idea on if Surly is going to make any other tires in a 29x3.0 size? I'm sure they will, guess I'm just asking which tires and when (if anyone has any ideas).


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

QBP seems to own the market with Surly and 45 North, so I assume we will see a low resistance tire (read: Black Floyd) and medium duty for the loose stuff... sand, snow (read: Endo, Larry) to fit the Rabbit Holes. 
I'd love to see more tires companies step in to a 3~4" tire. QBP makes some great stuff, but inventories of these massive tires in the past has been a challenge. And prices are very high.


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## EndoRando (Sep 21, 2004)

*It's what I wish mine could have been....*



Tikesdad said:


> It's the bike I've been day dreaming about.


Man,......*now* there's a large tire! I had been daydreaming the same thing years ago. Living with a standard 26" hardtail with SnoCats for winter riding had me cooking up notions for the next evolution. The incremental step that came to mind was 29" SnoCats and a new frame.

I asked Walt to build me up a 29er in 2005 with a target of giving me the most tire clearance he could in the rear triangle. I found a set of SnoCat 29er hoops, which at the time would have afforded me more float than my 26" version. I wanted to easily accomodate the largest 29" tire available mounted on a 44mm rim. At the time that was a WTB Exiwolf. Walt got creative with the chainstay yoke, much like the Krampus has, and came through in spades. A year or so later Greg at Speedway introduced his 50mm Uma 29er rims, and I could still easily fit 2.4 Racing Ralphs or 2.4 Ardent tires on the new rims. Walt was pretty forward thinking in that respect, all's good on version 2.







And a pic of the area behind the BB.



Still having some room to spare though I've been watching to see where tire sizes would evolve to eventually, hoping to see something in the 2.6 range. When news of the 3.0 tire came out I was so jazzed, and immediately went to see if my frame would accomodate the volume...only to be denied, it was not to be. It'll fit in the fork, and it'll clear under my seatstay bridge, but there's just not enough clearance for the casing's width in the rear.

I've been super pleased riding the bike as is, but wondering now if I should pull the plug, as the Krampus is ideally what I was after seven years ago. I've got the fatbike angle covered already, but would dig this new flavor. I saw the mention of a 26" variant in a 3.8, so how about it Surly, can you develop a slightly leaner version that many of us with existing bikes could use?


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

well endo, at least you'll have some new options for your front tire. Bike's lookin good!

So what's the word on availability of pre-order bikes and parts? Does qbp list a number of pre-order frames, etc. available so you can get a sense of when all the bikes on the boat have been claimed?

I'm still thinking about this one as I write my dissertation. Wouldn't be nice to have my reward for completion arrive just as I finish? But my laptop is also acting funny, so if an emergency replacement is required, not enough cash for both, so I'm still on the fence about ordering my own krampus.


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

I have a feeling the Knard is just the start of something very nice.. I met the guys of Surly at Eurobike this week and they happened to have the final yoke for the Krampus in their bags.

it seems the frame/rim/tire/tube will be available end november, begin december. The complete bike will be shipped with a Shimano Zee (single) crank, but the Surly off set crank should be the solution for (against) tire rub. Not sure when the completes will be available.

Ow, that Walt is very very nice!!


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## EndoRando (Sep 21, 2004)

JJT said:


> I have a feeling the Knard is just the start of something very nice..


By that I hope you're hinting that there may be a Knard little brutha! AFAIK no one has anything in 29" larger than a 2.4, and to now jump to a 3.0....well, you know...it requires a new breed of frame! If not Surly with a narrower Knard, come on somebody! Bring on a 2.6 Racing Ralph!

Thanks for the compliment JJT, Walt nailed the fit as it's the only frame I've ever had welded up to my dimensions.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

EndoRando said:


> By that I hope you're hinting that there may be a Knard little brutha! AFAIK no one has anything in 29" larger than a 2.4, and to now jump to a 3.0....well, you know...it requires a new breed of frame! If not Surly with a narrower Knard, come on somebody! Bring on a 2.6 Racing Ralph!
> 
> Thanks for the compliment JJT, Walt nailed the fit as it's the only frame I've ever had welded up to my dimensions.


That's a sweet bike for sure. I'll bet if you talk to Walt, he would be able to modify your frame to fit the new tire. It's probably time for a repaint anyway!

Just sayin!


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## bubba13 (Nov 30, 2009)

JJT said:


> I have a feeling the Knard is just the start of something very nice.. I met the guys of Surly at Eurobike this week and they happened to have the final yoke for the Krampus in their bags.
> 
> it seems the frame/rim/tire/tube will be available end november, begin december. The complete bike will be shipped with a Shimano Zee (single) crank, but the Surly off set crank should be the solution for (against) tire rub. Not sure when the completes will be available.
> 
> Ow, that Walt is very very nice!!


Hmm... That yoke might just solve the flex problem at the back end of the prototype frames.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Question: Will the Krampus work with 180mm or 200mm rotors?


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

vikb said:


> There is nothing that will stop you from mounting a Moonlander fork on the front of a Krampus. You'll have to rebuild the front wheel with a 135mm hub and get a new headset, but other than that it shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> You can check the length of both forks to ensure you won't be raising or lowering the front end much.


Surly has stated that, unfortunately, the Krampus fork is 120mm suspension corrected, which I would imagine is much longer than either the Moonlander fork, or even the 468mm Enabler fork.

Bummer..... would've been perfect...


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

ScaryJerry said:


> Surly has stated that, unfortunately, the Krampus fork is 120mm suspension corrected, which I would imagine is much longer than either the Moonlander fork, or even the 468mm Enabler fork.
> 
> Bummer..... would've been perfect...


I'd advise a message to Surly directly. They are still working on this, as far as I can see.
Direct information from the horses mouth is better than opinion from internet posters. I hope to get a Krampus frameset in a few months. I am not planning to get a suspension fork yet, but have not ruled it out either.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

It will be interesting to see what the story is with >1 chainring. Unfortunately, where I ride there are long steep climbs and Alfine 8 and 1x10 aren't going to work for me, Rohloff is too expensive and Alfine 11 seems likely to break especially with the low ratio needed for the big wheels.

Surly say either space out the chainrings and/or remove cog(s) at the rear, but how far and how many to get clearance??? If we can get away with removing just the 11T cog from a 9/10 speed cassette and/or spacing out the rings a few mm with spacers under the RH cup all is good, oherwise things start becoming awkward (= fatbike problem) again.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

They should really just bite the bullet and run an 83mm bb and a 150mm rear and get rid of 90% of the issues. And be ahead in the game in the end.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

ScaryJerry said:


> Surly has stated that, unfortunately, the Krampus fork is 120mm suspension corrected, which I would imagine is much longer than either the Moonlander fork, or even the 468mm Enabler fork.
> 
> Bummer..... would've been perfect...


Ya a 120mm 29er fork is going to be somewhere around 545mm long. The Moonlander fork is 447mm.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

satanas said:


> It will be interesting to see what the story is with >1 chainring. Unfortunately, where I ride there are long steep climbs and Alfine 8 and 1x10 aren't going to work for me, Rohloff is too expensive and Alfine 11 seems likely to break especially with the low ratio needed for the big wheels.


I've got an Alfine 11 IGH 29er MTB geared 32T x 23T that's used for bikepacking and MTBing and it's surviving without any issues so far [~9 months].

The low gears on the Alfine 11 and Alfine 8 are roughly the same. The A11 gives you a bit more top end if they are geared the same.

You can get 30T rings for 104 BCD cranks and combined with a 36T cog on the cassette it gives you a pretty nice gear range from a 1 x 10 setup.

I'm running a 1 x 9 on my FS MTB and the 1 x 11 IGH on my 29er. I'm seeing 1 x 9/10/11 MTB setups more and more. One of the discussion points in the MTB press is that companies are shying away from 1 x 10/11 setups because they are afraid folks might not buy a bike with what they perceive as an unsuitable gear range. I can see the folks at Surly look at the clearance issue and look at the 1 x 10 solution and decide to go for it despite the potential negative reaction.


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## Clink (Oct 29, 2006)

Soupboy said:


> I've not, but based on details elsewhere and my own steed it appears there is *plenty* of room.
> 
> Picture attached is with a chubby Nobby Nic on a Stan's Flow in the Salsa Cro Moto Grande 20mm TA rigid fork - massive room in all material directions for a Knard/Rabbit Farkinghohl


How is the 20mm Salsa?


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

Want to know when a complete front rim and tire will be available. Thinking current fork has the clearance for trying the larger tread.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

crux said:


> Want to know when a complete front rim and tire will be available. Thinking current fork has the clearance for trying the larger tread.


From the Surly Blog:

"We're looking at December or so on Krampus framesets, Rabbit Hole rims, and Knard (pronounced "nard") tires. We don't have MSRP amounts on those individually just yet, but we will in a month or so. The complete bikes will be available in early Spring of 2013. Those will probably go for about $1950."

I understand that they'll be selling the frames with 2 rims and 2 tires so you may not be able to buy a tire + rim a la carte unless they've got lots more than they need for the frames on hand. Ultimately they want to make sure anyone who gets a frame has some tires and rims to complete the build.


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## FSThompson (Oct 4, 2011)

Any guestimates or calculations on the footprint of a reasonably inflated Knard compared to a 3.8ish tire? I'm wondering how the Krampus will hold up on sand.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

You should be able to get a few more cm out of the tire footprint when you air it down for sand use. When I run about 6~8psi on my Larry's, the footprint is over 4". Not certain how low of a PSI you can run on the Knard though. (~15psi???)
I suspect the bike will do very well on hard-pack sand, but anything less than that, she'll likely wash out.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

FSThompson said:


> Any guestimates or calculations on the footprint of a reasonably inflated Knard compared to a 3.8ish tire? I'm wondering how the Krampus will hold up on sand.


Won't be as good, thinking this will make a good all condition general use bike without the need for suspension and fast enough rolling.

Still be better than the 26 x 2.3" tyres for any sand I do run into, but there generally just patches here so ideal.

Role on March!!


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

vikb said:


> I've got an Alfine 11 IGH 29er MTB geared 32T x 23T that's used for bikepacking and MTBing and it's surviving without any issues so far [~9 months].
> 
> You can get 30T rings for 104 BCD cranks and combined with a 36T cog on the cassette it gives you a pretty nice gear range from a 1 x 10 setup.


Thanks Vik. However, I think I'm going to need a low gear of at worst ~20" for some of the longer climbs, and lower wouldn't hurt; this isn't really achievable with 1x10. I can live with a fairly low top gear (say 75"), so maybe can get away with something like 36x24 (or 22) with 15-36 (8/10 cogs) and the rings moved out a few mm. (I'd be using square taper cranks I already have to keep the Q as low as possible.)

It's good to hear your Alfine 11 is still holding up, however, I think I'd want more like 30x23T (or 24T or 26T) to get a useable gear range with the bigger tyres. Unfortunately I'm a spinner, but on the positive side I virtually never break anything. Still, the number of people in the IGH forum who've complained about these hubs is rather discouraging. :eekster:


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

Oh I want one! When will these be available?


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

is the BB standard width or a little wider?


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## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

From Blog | Surly Bikes

"4. What kinda parts does it work with?

The Krampus will use a 73mm bottom bracket, 100mm front wheel spacing, and 135mm rear wheel spacing -"


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ True dat, but there are clearance issues with multiple chainrings so it's important to read the rest of the points on Surly's blog - and to wait and see what works once the Krampuses are out there.

What it really means is that normal stuff will work on the Krampus frame *provided* you are not going to use the 3.0" Knard tyres, but that if you are thngs are more complicated.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

satanas said:


> What it really means is that normal stuff will work on the Krampus frame *provided* you are not going to use the 3.0" Knard tyres, but that if you are thngs are more complicated.


That's funny. And does seem to be what they are saying to a degree.

Speaking hypothetically, from what I have read, it should work with a single ring or possibly with a setup that allows you to run a small ring in the middle position. IE MWood which come in 20/33 and 22/36. I don't know if the MWood will work on anything but their crankset and hopefully you can get it in 22/33.

Another thing you could try, which might help, and likely won't be Surly sanctioned, is to run a BB for a 83mm shell and use some spacers which will allow the rings to move to the right a bit more and maybe just enough. Chain line in big cogs might be a bit off but should work.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ I'm afraid I don't like the idea of (exensive, high Q) offset cranksets, though they would make things easier. If I can get minimal tyre clearance by removing one or two cogs from a 10 speed cassette and moving out some low Q square taper cranks a few mm with spacers and/or a slightly longer axle, then this would a) be better for me ergonomically and b) also work with a complete 10 speed cassette when narrower tyres and lighter wheels were used.

This is all theoretical though... 

BTW, Surly did say their new OD crankset would be available with 33x22T rings.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Any of you guys see the picture floating around Facebook of a Krampus with a suspension fork?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

No clue what it is yet, nobody is spilling those beans..


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ If there's any clearance there sure isn't much! The paint on the inside of those fork legs won't last long. I'd have about the same amount of clearance on my gen1 Fargo fork; the wheel would most likely turn, but not without some drag.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

Why does anyone NEED suspension with a tire that big? If you need suspension, then run a normal tire. No? Maybe I'm missing something.


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## tangaroo (Jul 17, 2012)

1 Speed said:


> Why does anyone NEED suspension with a tire that big? If you need suspension, then run a normal tire. No? Maybe I'm missing something.


Because, why not?


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

I have a fat bike and personally, I would love to have a front suspension. Yes, I can air down the tire to get a desired "cush" but what I give up by airing down is steering turn-in/responsiveness. I live in an area where there are a lot of heavily rooted trails and technical switchbacks that require a bit faster steering response. Yes, I can ride my niners for this sort of biking, but I give equal time to all my bikes. 
I am looking very forward to owning a Krampus. If it proves to be too rigid for my biking style, I will look at front suspension options (if they ever develop).


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

1 Speed said:


> Why does anyone NEED suspension with a tire that big? If you need suspension, then run a normal tire. No? Maybe I'm missing something.


Speaking as a fat bike owner running 4" tires there is no mistaking the fact you are on a rigid bike. Suspension and wide rubber are not the same thing and they can be mutually beneficial as can be seen by all the front suspension mods used to soften up existing fat bikes.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

1 Speed said:


> Why does anyone NEED suspension with a tire that big? If you need suspension, then run a normal tire. No? Maybe I'm missing something.


You're missing something. Besides gears 

If your deal is to concur the limitations of your machine then ss rigid is your ride.

If you want to be able to ride faster and harder terrain with less effort then large diameter fat tires, suspension and gears are for you.

Think of how well a MX motorcycle would do in a race with one gear and no suspension. Or with gears and suspension but running with bicycle tires. Same diff to a lesser degree on a fs fat bike.


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## nemhed (May 2, 2010)

modifier said:


> If you want to be able to ride faster and harder terrain with less effort then large diameter fat tires, suspension and gears are for you.


Or one could simply fly an airplane over the same terrain, if one really wanted to be faster with less effort. Just sayin', to each his own.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

nemhed said:


> Or one could simply fly an airplane over the same terrain, if one really wanted to be faster with less effort. Just sayin', to each his own.


You are completely missing the entire concept.

Like with many things it's about making a better machine for the job. Some people don't like better machines. Surly didn't come up with the idea of fat tires because they saw someone else doing it and thought it looked cool.

Choice is one thing. Measurable improvements are another. Where do you draw the line when you think an improvement is just not for you? You can cut down a tree with a stone axe. Chainsaws work much better. For me anyhow


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

When I owned my Pugsley, there were definitely times that I pondered ponying up for a DUC32 or whatever, mainly as I was bombing down rocky trails and struggling to keep my hands on the handlebars. Fatbike tires are totally not the same as a suspension- using both in conjunction is probably a very sweet setup.


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## bubba13 (Nov 30, 2009)

1 Speed said:


> Why does anyone NEED suspension with a tire that big? If you need suspension, then run a normal tire. No? Maybe I'm missing something.


Need?....WANT!

The first thing I said to the Surly/Salsa demo guys after the Krampus ride was "this thing needs front suspension!"

It all boils down to what you want and how you plan to use the bike. The Krampus geometry is set up to handle aggressive riding. I agree that this could be accomplished with one of the currently available 29er hard tails. (Yelli Screamy, Honzo, etc...) The main difference is the Krampus / Knard combo is not as harsh as a comparable 29er with a 2.4 tire. Add a suspension fork to the Krampus and those high speed bumps could actually be fun.


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## nemhed (May 2, 2010)

modifier said:


> You are completely missing the entire concept.
> 
> Like with many things it's about making a better machine


It wouldn't be the first time I've missed the point. I'm all for people making their choices. Surly has made their choice by offering the Krampus and people have been saying woulda and shoulda and what if-ing for 15 pages now, but I did say to each his own. Where I live everybody rides around on quads and ATVs and would scoff at the idea of a mere bicycle being the better machine for anything. Cheers! :thumbsup:


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> Need?....WANT!
> 
> The first thing I said to the Surly/Salsa demo guys after the Krampus ride was "this thing needs front suspension!"
> 
> It all boils down to what you want and how you plan to use the bike. The Krampus geometry is set up to handle aggressive riding. I agree that this could be accomplished with one of the currently available 29er hard tails. (Yelli Screamy, Honzo, etc...) The main difference is the Krampus / Knard combo is not as harsh as a comparable 29er with a 2.4 tire. Add a suspension fork to the Krampus and those high speed bumps could actually be fun.


not to mention the awesome traction in tight turns over various terrain. Suspension forks help a bit with traction, but suspension plus fat tire equals screaming through those slippery rooty off camber turns.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

nemhed said:


> It wouldn't be the first time I've missed the point. I'm all for people making their choices. Surly has made their choice by offering the Krampus and people have been saying woulda and shoulda and what if-ing for 15 pages now, but I did say to each his own. Where I live everybody rides around on quads and ATVs and would scoff at the idea of a mere bicycle being the better machine for anything. Cheers! :thumbsup:


I guess I needed to say 'better human powered machine' and qualify 'for rough terrain'.

Riding on smooth swoopy trail a few days go on my 3 speed short travel bike with a 650b front wheel I was not thinking 'I wish I was on my fat bike'. But I only ride that trail a couple of times a year. So maybe only 90% of the time I ride I prefer my FS Fat.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


>


I just realized that I really don't like the headtube decal on this Krampus. Please tell me they are sticking with what's on their older bikes...like this


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## tangaroo (Jul 17, 2012)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I just realized that I really don't like the headtube decal on this Krampus. Please tell me they are sticking with what's on their older bikes...like this


I would assume that when these are available, they will come with the trusted and reassuring S emblem on the head tube. Just to cut costs, they probably just put that cheap sticker decal on the front of the promo models.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

tangaroo said:


> Because, why not?


Couldn't the same be said the other way?

OK, I come from a different place in cycling and I'm an admitted Retro Grouch. I'm 50 years old and ride a "very modern" Ti 29'er hardtail with a carbon rigid fork.. oh, it's singlespeed too. I've ridden more or less that way for 15+ years. I hate working on my bike when I could be riding it and I enjoy riding my singlespeeds more than any other bike. Additionally, I've never understood why you'd buy, what seems to me to be the most purpose-made bike I can think of and not use it for snow, sand, mud, etc.

So, when people say they want to put suspension on a Fat bike to ride it on trail, why wouldn't you just ride a bike made for same instead of adding weight to an already fat or morbidly obese Fat bike? Like I said, I must be missing something.

Again, not trying to be a troll or purposely argumentative but I just don't get it. In any case... the Krampus looks like a really great bike and if I get one, it'll end up rigid and single like my other bikes.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

I've written about this so many times I don't feel like going fully into it again, at this moment.

Just read this thing I wrote and maybe you will understand. If not I'm certainly not offended.

Reader's Rides: Custom-fabricated full-suspension fatbike | Dirt Rag Magazine


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

1 Speed said:


> So, when people say they want to put suspension on a Fat bike to ride it on trail, why wouldn't you just ride a bike made for same instead of adding weight to an already fat or morbidly obese Fat bike? Like I said, I must be missing something.


What you are missing here is how much fun a Fat Bike is. I bought my _obese_, 32lb., FB for winter snow and mud riding. What I came to realize is this bike is not just about snow or mud. I find excuses to ride it everywhere. It's a blast (and one hell of a conversation starter). 
The Krampus looks equally fun, and that's exactly why I will own it. Will the Krampus need a front suspension? We'll see...


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Another shot of the Krampus


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## tangaroo (Jul 17, 2012)

What you don't understand is the fun factor that comes in riding a fatbike on trails. I'm not out there to race or set personal records, I ride for enjoyment and the thrill of challenges. So, a fatbike brings a different challenge as well. Also, refer to the post above.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

pbasinger said:


> Another shot of the Krampus


I just love that green metalflake. Reminds me of the 1970s.

Edit: I will build a Krampus with the rigid fork. I will also eagerly wait to see any suspension fork, to see how much it weighs, and how much it deflects. A suspension fork with sliders that long and a bridge could be heavy.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

pbasinger said:


> Another shot of the Krampus


Jah bless you! My good, good man. A million thanks. :thumbsup:


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

pbasinger said:


> Another shot of the Krampus


I'd still go out with her even it she does have a weird name.

There must be a bike in that picture some where


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## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

nice bike stand


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

what is the BB height on the krampus? and will it be a pedal striker with 2.4 tires on the bike instead of the knards?


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

This bike would be perfect with a 1 x 7 via a SS hub.

Anyone know what the CS length is?


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

modifier said:


> There must be a bike in that picture some where


^ My thoughts exactly. I did see it eventually but there were other green things that distracted me at first...


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

pbasinger said:


> Another shot of the Krampus


That's a beautiful thing!

I guess I need to ride one at some point. Where I live in Germany it's enough to ride the bike I ride.

Here's a photo of the "real" Krampus although not nearly as interesting. This happens around the region of Germany where I live so I get to see them every year. 









If you don't already know what a Krampus is, here's the info.
Krampus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*a few from dirt demo*

Fav bike i put between my legs at dirt demo...

krampus dont give a sh#t, krampus just rolls over it, krampus dont care.....


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> what is the BB height on the krampus? and will it be a pedal striker with 2.4 tires on the bike instead of the knards?


That would be missing the whole point of the bike.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ Agreed.

...and until Surly finalise things and post the geometry nobody knows what it is, and pedal strike also depends on where and how you ride and what sort of pedals you have, etc. Some people don't have problems with low BBs, and others do with high BBs. So, basically a pointless question.


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## tangaroo (Jul 17, 2012)

1 Speed said:


> That's a beautiful thing!
> 
> I guess I need to ride one at some point. Where I live in Germany it's enough to ride the bike I ride.
> 
> ...


"Sometimes Krampus appears with a sack or a washtub strapped to his back; this is to cart off evil children for drowning, eating, or transport to Hell."

This is the best line.

HOW AM I GOING TO BE ABLE TO WAIT UNTIL THIS DAMN BIKE IS AVAILABLE??? I WANT ONE NOWWWWWW.


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## nemhed (May 2, 2010)

I vote for the Surly Krampus as the most interesting new bike of the year. I vote for Christmas Krampus as the creepiest Christmas holiday tradition *of all time!*


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

Great bike, I think I will get one. I want to use it for off-road XC wilderness touring (as well as other things) but I notice that the fork has no attachment points. That's a bit of a bummer, maybe this is just the prototype and the final version will have more?


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

satanas said:


> ^ Agreed.
> 
> ...and until Surly finalise things and post the geometry nobody knows what it is, and pedal strike also depends on where and how you ride and what sort of pedals you have, etc. Some people don't have problems with low BBs, and others do with high BBs. So, basically a pointless question.


The geometry is posted on the surly website now

I'm a little disappointed about the BBDrop: its only 60 mm - thats 8 mm less than the Karate Monkey which has 68 mm. I do not understand why the Krampuses BBDrop is so low:bluefrown:


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

For those of you thinking of ordering without a test ride, does the long ETT have you thinking about which size to get? I'm 6'0 and the medium is prolly where I'd go.


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## JordyB (Oct 26, 2007)

Seeing as they are putting on a shorter stem on complete bikes, it seems they designed a longer ETT and shorter stem? Would this sway me from sticking with a meduim I normally ride, nope! A small would put way to much seat post sticking out for me.

"60/70/80/90mm length"
S/M/L/XL stem length?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

A little confused on what headset they suggest using. So I should be buying an EC44 lower cup and then a 40 series zero stack upper cup? Would it matter if I used a tall stack or a low stack? I guess what I'm confused on is that everything I'm finding about the EC44 is that it is for a 1.5" crown race and the 40 series upper is for 1-1/8"....and I guess I have completely missed the fact that the fork is tapered (or has a 1-1/8" steerer and a 1.5" crown).


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## JordyB (Oct 26, 2007)

Correct, ZS upper, EC lower, both 44mm. Tall or Low stack is your choice, depends on your stem height needs.

Per their website, its a straight 1 1/8" steerer so you need the proper lower crown plate.

So a King Inset 7 with 1 1/8" crown plate would work great.

Would have to piece together a Cane creek solution it looks like.

Not sure about FSA EC44 options...

With this strait steerer, a EC44/EC44 angleset will allow you to play with your HA a bit too.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Okay, so I'd need a 1-1/8" crown race that works with a 1.5" bearing and I'd be set (headset, lol)?


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## JordyB (Oct 26, 2007)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Okay, so I'd need a 1-1/8" crown race that works with a 1.5" bearing and I'd be set (headset, lol)?


But not just any race, you need one made for your headset. They are not universal or weren't last I checked. :madman:


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Yes, I'm talking all Cane Creek stuff (I've used a few of their 40 series 1-1/8" headsets and love them).


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Mark_BC said:


> Great bike, I think I will get one. I want to use it for off-road XC wilderness touring (as well as other things) but I notice that the fork has no attachment points. That's a bit of a bummer, maybe this is just the prototype and the final version will have more?


I think you are out of luck on fork brazes. All the brazes (and build kit) are now listed on their general website. Krampus | Bikes | Surly Bikes


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

DerBergschreck said:


> I'm a little disappointed about the BBDrop: its only 60 mm - thats 8 mm less than the Karate Monkey which has 68 mm. I do not understand why the Krampuses BBDrop is so low:bluefrown:


I am going to go out on a limb and say it's because the wheels are at least 8mm taller than a typical 29er.

Also, there are positive characteristics of a low BB including stability and improved cornering. It's pretty difficult to just say "low is bad" or "high is good" it all depends on the bike and how you want it to ride.

My bikes tend to have low-ish BBs and I run long cranks to boot. You get used to it.


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> A little confused on what headset they suggest using. So I should be buying an EC44 lower cup and then a 40 series zero stack upper cup? Would it matter if I used a tall stack or a low stack? I guess what I'm confused on is that everything I'm finding about the EC44 is that it is for a 1.5" crown race and the 40 series upper is for 1-1/8"....and I guess I have completely missed the fact that the fork is tapered (or has a 1-1/8" steerer and a 1.5" crown).


My Chromag 29er has a 44mm head tube, and I run the EC44 bottom and ZS44 top. However, that is for a 1.5" tapered fork.

For a 1 1/8 fork I believe you would just use the complete zero stack (ZS) headset. Which is awesome for me as I'm always trying to get my stack height lower.


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

OK, I just noticed that for some reason Surly recommends an EC44 bottom headset, you guys probably already caught that:

_Headset/Steertube	44mm ID. Recommend EC44 lower cups. Zero Stack on top is o.k._

If I understand that right, with Cane Creek you would use the EC44 Conversion bottom assembly that reduces the diameter to fit a 1 1/8 fork. I still might try using a Zero Stack though unless someone can tell me why I wouldn't want to do that.


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

anthony.delorenzo said:


> _Originally Posted by DerBergschreck
> 
> I'm a little disappointed about the BBDrop: its only 60 mm - thats 8 mm less than the Karate Monkey which has 68 mm. I do not understand why the Krampuses BBDrop is so low_
> 
> ...


Lower BB drop figure = Higher BB height. The combination of the large wheel size and low BB drop both add to the ride height, they dont conteract eachother (as a high BB drop number would do).

I have a homebuilt 26"fatbike that only has about 20mmm of BB drop, so very high BB and riding position. The bike took some time to get used to riding, felt very wierd at first. Once I adjusted to it though, I found the high BB clearance to be usefull for pedaling through deep ruts in mud and snow and for generally eliminating pedal strike when riding over very rough terrain like volleyball size rocks, logs, tundra tussucks.

Anthony- to put a forum user name with a face, that was me that was riding right with you at the end of lap one of past weekend arcticross, I got in a couple of warmdown laps in the open class after riding masters race.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

satanas said:


> ^ Agreed.
> 
> ...and until Surly finalise things and post the geometry nobody knows what it is, and pedal strike also depends on where and how you ride and what sort of pedals you have, etc. Some people don't have problems with low BBs, and others do with high BBs. So, basically a pointless question.





Wish I Were Riding said:


> That would be missing the whole point of the bike.


some people need to have a more versatile bike. i already have too many bikes. but i did sell the pugsly due to the wide BB hurting my knees on long rides.
if i can put 700c road wheels use it as a commuter and regular 2.4 rims/tires for single speed, then i could down size 2-3 bikes.

not a pointless question if putting regular 29er rims/tires is below 50mm:crazy::crazy: drop.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> not a pointless question if putting regular 29er rims/tires is below 50mm:crazy::crazy: drop.


Huh? The BBDrop is indpendent from what tires you use. Its always the same.

With 26" MTBs the bb drop was about 40-50 mm. Good 29ers have 60-68 - so I expected that Krampus as a 29+ would have about 70-80 mm BBDrop to improve further the "sitting *in* the bike" feeling. But unfortunately it doesn't.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

GrayJay said:


> I have a homebuilt 26"fatbike that only has about 20mmm of BB drop, so very high BB and riding position. The bike took some time to get used to riding, felt very wierd at first. Once I adjusted to it though, I found the high BB clearance to be usefull for pedaling through deep ruts in mud and snow and for generally eliminating pedal strike when riding over very rough terrain like volleyball size rocks, logs, tundra tussucks.


Yes. I find the benefits of a high BB outweigh the drawbacks by a considerable amount.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

From Surly:



> This would be a good place to mention that the rigid fork is 120mm suspension corrected.


ascarlarkinyar,
If you use the factory rigid fork, I think you should be able to run regular 29er wheels and have good ground clearance.


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

120mm suspension corrected with how much sag?
The Karate Monkey fork is 15mm shorter and was supposed to be 80mm corrected.
And the 3.0" tire takes up about 15mm of extra fork space. 
In my book, the krampus is only 120mm corrected if you stick in a 26" front wheel. Maybe not even a 3.0" tires.

47mm fork offset, as is the world standard now. You've seen it on the rigid On-One and Redline Flight 29" models before. Krampus is soooo 2005  
I honestly feel Surly could and should have done this for 2005/6 not 2013. The were awere of the concept, also of longer offset forks, we'd discussed that all.
It's still a great bike in 2013, but not better in any way then it would have been in 2006. OK, they will have learned a bit on tire design, but even an Endomorph in 29x3.0 will be a fine tire, compared to other offerings, right? I suppose pre-ordering a bunch will be less scary for them now that they've prepped the public to buy whatever cool concept they throw into the market 

I want one, but I wanted it more 8 years ago.


----------



## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

Cloxxki said:


> The Karate Monkey fork is 15mm shorter


On the Surly website Karate Monkey and Krampus forks both have the same lenght of 468 mm. Bug or feature?


----------



## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Hmmm, I could see leaving the BB drop the same to save having clearance issues with smaller 29" tyres, but making it less?!? What drugs were they taking? :madman:


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

satanas said:


> Hmmm, I could see leaving the BB drop the same to save having clearance issues with smaller 29" tyres, but making it less?!? What drugs were they taking? :madman:


The kind that make you smarter.


----------



## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

I hadn't been impressed with pictures of the tire width. They just don't do it justice. In this video the timber roller section....dang
Surly Bikes @ Interbike 2012 - YouTube 1:10


----------



## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

that's a moonlander


----------



## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

ScaryJerry said:


> that's a moonlander


they sure did fool me


----------



## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

While you're waiting for the bike, you can read the book!

All the Science Fiction and Fantasy Books You Can't Miss in October!

Krampus: The Yule Lord: Brom: 9780062095657: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## tao (Jan 27, 2008)

Krampus, I want one.


----------



## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

after much consideration this bike is too close and would be redundant to my rigid 29er with 2.4 tires. i have had a pugsly and it was great in the soft snow(sucked for any climbing), but the wide Q factor hurt my knees. was thinking this bike would replace that, but my 29er works just fine on most snow.

don't need a monster truck heavier version of the same bike. the krampus "is" fun to ride. just not versatile if i can't put on regular 29er tires/rims or even street tires due to having the BB too low. would be great if i was building a quiver of specialized(not the brand) bikes in my garage, but i am heading the other direction of getting back down to 3-5 bikes again.


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## octavius (Sep 26, 2008)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> after much consideration this bike is too close and would be redundant to my rigid 29er with 2.4 tires. i have had a pugsly and it was great in the soft snow(sucked for any climbing), but the wide Q factor hurt my knees. was thinking this bike would replace that, but my 29er works just fine on most snow.
> 
> don't need a monster truck heavier version of the same bike. the krampus "is" fun to ride. just not versatile if i can't put on regular 29er tires/rims or even street tires due to having the BB too low. would be great if i was building a quiver of specialized(not the brand) bikes in my garage, but i am heading the other direction of getting back down to 3-5 bikes again.


Great insight. Superb.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

Insight is an interesting term for a bike we mostly do not have yet. I am waiting on my pre-ordered frameset. As soon as I know how this one works, I will write about it. Until then, it is just waiting. People writing about the Krampus either do have Knard tires, or they do not.

When rendering an opinion on the 29+, I would like to hear if you have actually ridden on Knards, and for how many miles or km.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

I just want a Knard to mount on the front of my rigid. I still think the Krampus is a cool bike, though I would probably never buy one.


----------



## Yogii (Jun 5, 2008)

I must be the only one, but I don't like the metalic "bass boat" green...at least the pictures of it. Hopefully when it reaches full production other colors will be offered...


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

ktm520 said:


> I just want a Knard to mount on the front of my rigid. I still think the Krampus is a cool bike, though I would probably never buy one.


Agreed.


----------



## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

DavyRay said:


> Insight is an interesting term for a bike we mostly do not have yet. I am waiting on my pre-ordered frameset. As soon as I know how this one works, I will write about it. Until then, it is just waiting. People writing about the Krampus either do have Knard tires, or they do not.
> 
> When rendering an opinion on the 29+, I would like to hear if you have actually ridden on Knards, and for how many miles or km.


????????????????

when u assume..........anyways some of us were lucky enough to ride them in utah.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

Yogii said:


> I must be the only one, but I don't like the metalic "bass boat" green...at least the pictures of it. Hopefully when it reaches full production other colors will be offered...


I've seen a few of the Krampus' and the Bass Boat green is fine, nothing stellar. At least it's not Brown (which to me is a bodily function, not a color). Having said that, if you're going to name it after a mythical creature from southern Bavaria, you could at least make it Baby Blue/White like the flag. Hey... I'm just saying that because I like real colors.

As far as buying the Krampus, I may have said it before but it's the first fat fike to come out that I've had any interest in whatsoever. I actually think most fat bikes are sinfully ugly (just my opinion). Sure I'll admit that my interest in the Krampus is, in large part, because it's a 29'er but also because it looks better to me than the others. I don't think I need another bike just for winter because I ride my regular bike all winter in the snow anyway. Strangely, there's just something about this silly bike that makes me want to ride it.


----------



## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> ????????????????
> 
> when u assume..........anyways some of us were lucky enough to ride them in utah.


And I was able to ride one for a while on a demo weekend in NC. I am not an experienced MTB rider, so do not consider my hour on a Krampus to be enough for me to compare it to the other bikes I've ridden. There are people with hours of trail time on the Knard. I'd like to hear more from them.


----------



## tangaroo (Jul 17, 2012)

1 Speed said:


> I've seen a few of the Krampus' and the Bass Boat green is fine, nothing stellar. At least it's not Brown (which to me is a bodily function, not a color). Having said that, if you're going to name it after a mythical creature from southern Bavaria, you could at least make it Baby Blue/White like the flag. Hey... I'm just saying that because I like real colors.
> 
> As far as buying the Krampus, I may have said it before but it's the first fat fike to come out that I've had any interest in whatsoever. I actually think most fat bikes are sinfully ugly (just my opinion). Sure I'll admit that my interest in the Krampus is, in large part, because it's a 29'er but also because it looks better to me than the others. I don't think I need another bike just for winter because I ride my regular bike all winter in the snow anyway. Strangely, there's just something about this silly bike that makes me want to ride it.


rft: My pugsley is the most beautiful bike on the planet... I like a little junk in the trunk... Tired of all these skinny tire, lycra rocking bikes out there causing all other bikes to develop body image problems...


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

I rode the mighty Krampus for about 10-12mi this summer-I am waiting for mine now. I ride rigid with 2.4 Mtn Kings on P35's now. There was no comparison. On paper-they sound close-but in person-the Knard/Rabbit Hole blows this away by size. The Knard tread pattern is super fast-I rode the same trail on my current setup-and the Krampus was faster! Both bikes weigh about the same low 30lbs in XL. If you have not seen/rode a Krampus-don't second guess the size/ride....It is really a different monster!


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

I highly, highly, highly doubt that Surly would have gone through all this trouble and tooling costs and such to make this bike if it was "not that much different" from a 2.4.

I will be running a Rabbit Hole/Knard on the front of my Ogre, and my hope is that if I run a wide-ish rim on the back with a 2.4-2.5 that it will sort of kind of compliment the 29x3 on the front.


----------



## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Anybody know how many Krampus framesets and Rabbit Hole/Knards are left unspoken for? I haven't been able to find the pre-order sheet on Q's site for the past couple weeks...I hope I didn't miss my chance to order a frameset!


----------



## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

As far as my LBS goes, they have the Rabbit Hole and Knard on Item Watch for me still but they aren't available yet to be ordered. So sayeth my LBS yesterday


----------



## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

Has anybody figured out yet whether the Krampus will work with a Lefty, and if so, with a Lefty and a really short stem? It looks like I'm going to need a 50mm stem to fit right on it.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

sanjuanswan said:


> Has anybody figured out yet whether the Krampus will work with a Lefty, and if so, with a Lefty and a really short stem? It looks like I'm going to need a 50mm stem to fit right on it.


this looks to be the max tire width you can fit on a lefty. i don't know that version of the lefty if those arms are stock or custom


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

This isn't a Krampus question so maybe I should ask it somewhere else but those lefty monofork things look horrendous. The extra forces and moments you'd get from not supporting the axle on both sides are huge. I'd be scared to take that thing anywhere. And you probably wouldn't get much warning of a failure either, it will just one day crack and you do an endo. What's the scoop on their failure rates?


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

Mark_BC said:


> This isn't a Krampus question so maybe I should ask it somewhere else but those lefty monofork things look horrendous. The extra forces and moments you'd get from not supporting the axle on both sides are huge. I'd be scared to take that thing anywhere. And you probably wouldn't get much warning of a failure either, it will just one day crack and you do an endo. What's the scoop on their failure rates?


zero failures........mark are you from a different country(or planet) that you have never seen these forks. been out for a long time and work better than standard two leg forks.

older models have had needle bearing problems and then if not fixed can come apart, but not from the lowers.


----------



## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Mark_BC said:


> This isn't a Krampus question so maybe I should ask it somewhere else but those lefty monofork things look horrendous. The extra forces and moments you'd get from not supporting the axle on both sides are huge. I'd be scared to take that thing anywhere. And you probably wouldn't get much warning of a failure either, it will just one day crack and you do an endo. What's the scoop on their failure rates?


No catastrophic failures, at least none where you wouldn't have expected it.

Your observations are old hat. Anyone that looks at one, is unfamiliar, and doesn't get to see them up close, says the same thing.

Much stiffer than forks of the same class, so beefier too.

ascarlarkinyar, the issues you refer to weren't bearing problems, it was an issue with a subcontractor not applying the anti-vibration compound correctly to the threads, so a few dampers unscrewed, and yes, a few folks met dirt. Frames fail, wheels fail, and we hit dirt often, when it does. Wouldn't be the first crash for them, likely won't be the last, as it is mounting biking after all.


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

I'm from a different era, I mountain biked the North Shore back in the day of the late 80's and 90's when mountain bikes were first coming out. Been out of the mountain bike trends for a while, spent more time bike touring. Getting back into it a bit now.

So you get ample warning the monofork thing is gong to break before it does? It won't last forever.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Mark_BC said:


> So you get ample warning the monofork thing is gong to break before it does? It won't last forever.


It lasts as long (or longer due to being utterly rebuildable) as any other fork out there, and gives the same level of warning should it fail as any other product.

The fact that it is single sided has no bearing whatsoever in terms of durability, longevity etc.

Typical defensive toss outs include fighter jets landing gear, and several brands of motorcycles rear ends all being single sided.

The idea is legit and proven.

Welcome to the modern age of engineering


----------



## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

Why is this conversation even happening?! LOL

dude is Encino Man-ning this whole convo


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Lol Brandon Fraser movies... :nonod:


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Mark_BC said:


> So you get ample warning the monofork thing is gong to break before it does? It won't last forever.


They last 20 minutes, before forever...
...if a Lefty breaks, and your not dead

You send it to...
...Mendon Cycle Smith, he will fix it for you!

Cause he is da bestest:thumbsup:

So, have we determined that a Krampus will allow the fitment of a Lefty with a Rabbit Hole and Kanard? Assuming it will have to be spaced down. What would the travel be reduced down to?


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

NEPMTBA said:


> They last 20 minutes, before forever...
> ...if a Lefty breaks, and your not dead
> 
> You send it to...
> ...


Did a quickie estimate of RH/Knard clearance on a stock Lefty based on Surly's numbers and looks like there is barely any clearance between the side of the tire and the stanchion. Maybe MCS will conjure up a solution for the stock Lefty, maybe a modified one will work, we should know pretty soon...


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Sadly, I am part of the same world as the rest who are waiting to find out if it'll fit. 

Come on Krampus, come to papa....


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## Johnny Chicken Bones (Jul 13, 2005)

Nevermind


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

What's it for? Riding. On trails. With my friends. Is it really that complicated? Yes, you could do that with a 26, space frame etc. I like rigid bikes - the ride, the simplicity - but having a little extra cushion, and a little extra grip, is very welcome. 29, 29 +, 26, fat, whatever, it's all good. Whatever floats your boat.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Johnny Chicken Bones said:


> I started sifting thru this thread in an attempt to figure out just what the heck a Krampus is for. On about page 8 I lost interest and skipped to the end to see some shot of hottie du jour posing w/ a matching bikini. Wow. Good to see that it only takes a short 18 pages before people stop arguing about what this bike is for.
> Oh-
> speaking of that, Surly has more overlap in their line up than any company I can think of in the time it takes me to type this sentence so really- What are those of you planning on doing w/ a Krampus? And please don't give me that "it's fun" defense. Heroin is fun. A dirt bike might be fun. People used to have fun on Pro Flex's. Heck, even 26ers are fun. I've even heard that a Space Frame is fun.


Cause its better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

JensonUSA shows the Knard since a week or so ago.


> AVAILABILITY Nov 08, 2012


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

the 26" version, though


----------



## jave-mtr (Jan 4, 2007)

Krampus and Company: Winter Demons Come Out for Christmas in the Alps - SPIEGEL ONLINE


----------



## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Cause its better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.


Your post was an elegant argument for quoting other posts in their entirety. Strong work, sir. Lesson learned.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> the 26" version, though


You are right. How did I miss that? They list the size as 26 x 3.8 anyway.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Does anybody know if they Krampus frameset will come with the Monkey Nuts?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Anybody who's ridden the Krampus: would you suggest getting some Monkey Nuts for the build (gonna be a 1x10)? What about a Tuggnut? Any issues with slippage or tire rub on the seattube?


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## Captain Bob (Mar 26, 2007)

I rode a krampus last week. It has monkey nuts but not sure if they are stock. The rear wheel slipped towards the brake side once. I tightened the skewer (it was way loose) and it never slipped again.


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## nostra (Mar 16, 2012)

looks like a good fit for where I should go after being on a comfort bike for a little while. What have you added to it or upgraded recently? Anything break prematurely?


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## Captain Bob (Mar 26, 2007)

nostra said:


> looks like a good fit for where I should go after being on a comfort bike for a little while. What have you added to it or upgraded recently? Anything break prematurely?


You asking me about the Krampus? I only rode it for an hour. Nothing broken. The bike i rode still had the older chainstay yoke. There was an xl model there too with the production yoke which had more clearance and a cleaner look.


----------



## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

*Any updates?*

I read all 19 pages of the thread waiting to see if anyone had received their frames/rims/tires, but no luck. Don't get me wrong, Ms. Krampus was a nice bonus on page 18, but I'm still jonesing for the latest details on the hardware. When is delivery expected? Is the first run of frames/rims/tires sold out?

Also, how difficult do you think it'll be to run the RH/Knard tubeless?


----------



## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Looking forward to riding one of these at a Surly demo this weekend. If I dig it I hope some frames are still available.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I hear ya. I'm already buying parts for the build and can't find the pre-order page anymore for the frames. I've got a sickening feeling that all of them are already spoken for :nonod: I'm gonna have to build something with these parts..


----------



## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

Just talked to Surly by phone and they said Krampus would be available in March, limited quantities


----------



## Trailice (Oct 30, 2009)

Would a Knard fit in a Dorado?


----------



## Yoreskillz (Feb 10, 2011)

JIC anyone might be interested. T-shirt design by Melita Curphy AKA "MissMonster"

Greetings from Krampus!


----------



## dwnhlldav (Feb 2, 2006)

Mark_BC said:


> This isn't a Krampus question so maybe I should ask it somewhere else but those lefty monofork things look horrendous. The extra forces and moments you'd get from not supporting the axle on both sides are huge. I'd be scared to take that thing anywhere. And you probably wouldn't get much warning of a failure either, it will just one day crack and you do an endo. What's the scoop on their failure rates?


I raced sport class downhill on a first generation lefty when I was in college. No problems with it.

BTW, Ducati puts a single sided swing arm on their race bikes, the 1199 puts out a reported 195 horsepower through that single sided swing arm. Doesn't seem to be any issues there.


----------



## cherrybomber (Mar 25, 2004)

pbasinger said:


> Another shot of the Krampus


wooha look a the size of her tires!


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

> wooha look a the size of her tires!


It's not the size that's important, but the tire pressure (fullness) and how they fit on the rim


----------



## Yogii (Jun 5, 2008)

They should be called, "_Plumpers_" .


----------



## Yogii (Jun 5, 2008)

or BBW's


----------



## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

Can we please talk about the bike instead of how long it's been since you children got laid.


----------



## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Can someone out there that might be near a Krampus tell me what the tire diameter is at the widest peak of the knobs???

Emailed Surly also.


----------



## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

Surfdog93 said:


> Just talked to Surly by phone and they said Krampus would be available in March, limited quantities


Looks like Black Sheep got their hands on some. Surprised these have not been posted here from their FB page.

http://www.facebook.com/BLACKSHEEPBIKES?fref=ts

The hand built bike show should be pretty rad if some builders can get their hands on some of these tires!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

GSJ1973 said:


> Looks like Black Sheep got their hands on some. Surprised these have not been posted here from their FB page.
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/BLACKSHEEPBIKES?fref=ts
> 
> The hand built bike show should be pretty rad if some builders can get their hands on some of these tires!


Love that they're already putting them into an FS chassis.

Odd that they're running them on Flows. Probably all they could get ATM.


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## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

What's more odd is that one lonely silver nipple.


----------



## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Love that they're already putting them into an FS chassis.


:madman:


----------



## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

This bike has a lot of appeal for me.

For the rocky stuff around the Moab suspension would be key.

Have people seen this?

Big Wheel Deals: Knardilicious Fox. Now with more Uma!


----------



## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Sh!t Mike. If I had the ducats to grab that fork.....

Cannot wait to get my Krampus up and running.


----------



## Captain Bob (Mar 26, 2007)

Any idea if my Fox F29 34 120mm fork from my Horsethief would work with the Knard 3.0?


----------



## fotu (Jan 20, 2005)

phsycle said:


> What's more odd is that one lonely silver nipple.


It's not that uncommon for alloy nipples to blow out and be replace by brass ones.

But what do I know, I don't know nothing about bikes...


----------



## fotu (Jan 20, 2005)

Eddiecycle said:


> Can we please talk about the bike instead of how long it's been since you children got laid.


you need to lighten up, get laid or something. seriously.


----------



## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

fotu said:


> It's not that uncommon for alloy nipples to blow out....


From being hung upside down?


----------



## fotu (Jan 20, 2005)

phsycle said:


> From being hung upside down?


wha? Being upside down is bad for the _spokes_ you dumbass. They nipples don't care.


----------



## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

I am so glad to see this thread back on track.


----------



## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

pbasinger said:


> This bike has a lot of appeal for me.
> 
> For the rocky stuff around the Moab suspension would be key.
> 
> ...


3mm of clearance just ain't gonna cut it. Any time you lean the tire will rub the stanchion. If you lean hard it might lock up. Too bad it just ain't gonna work, not for real mtbing. And this is with a relatively skinny rim too.


----------



## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

PretendGentleman said:


> 3mm of clearance just ain't gonna cut it. Any time you lean the tire will rub the stanchion. If you lean hard it might lock up. Too bad it just ain't gonna work, not for real mtbing. And this is with a relatively skinny rim too.


You could cut the top away, but not the stanchions to make more room, shame.

All forks will have pretty much the same stanchion width so give up on that.

Would a Leftie work ?? not much travel left I guess from the height of the tyre but better than no suspension maybe ??


----------



## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

I'm not sure you are right. There seem to be at least 2 krampus being ridden with fox forks and no mention of issues..

evidence from bike jerks flickr


----------



## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

dRjOn said:


> I'm not sure you are right. There seem to be at least 2 krampus being ridden with fox forks and no mention of issues..
> 
> evidence from bike jerks flickr


It fits but just barely.... a bit of mud or sticks a big rock could be scary


----------



## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

SlowerThenSnot said:


> It fits but just barely.... a bit of mud or sticks a big rock could be scary


Just wow negative rep over this? I seen the nard and fox combo in person and its not something i'd risk, just throwing my .02 out there


----------



## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

SlowerThenSnot said:


> Just wow negative rep over this? I seen the nard and fox combo in person and its not something i'd risk, just throwing my .02 out there


I'm betting the coward didn't sign the rep, either.


----------



## dvo1 (May 28, 2006)

phsycle said:


> I'm betting the coward didn't sign the rep, either.


That is rep on this forum complete bullship.


----------



## fotu (Jan 20, 2005)

bullshitt, bullship


----------



## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

Ha ha, just got this neg rep:

"Surly Krampus	11-18-2012 07:27 PM	good point"

Idiots like this guy makes people like fotu look not as d0uchey.


----------



## fotu (Jan 20, 2005)

phsycle said:


> Ha ha, just got this neg rep:
> 
> "Surly Krampus	11-18-2012 07:27 PM	good point"
> 
> Idiots like this guy makes people like fotu look not as d0uchey.


dude, are you in love with me or what?


----------



## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

Don't makes this all weird.


----------



## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Maybe if you want to lighten it up for some reason. Carbon 29'er Tapered Fork


----------



## upupa97 (Jan 4, 2010)

Size tires?


----------



## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

anyone know if this tire rim combo fits a niner carbon fork 
I need some reliable winter suspension for my single speed 


Thanks 
Sj


----------



## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

I really, really wish they'd do away with the rep. thing. It's kind of like who's the most popular kid in middle school. Any given day it's someone different. I've been on this forum for 10 years or something and I think I've got one brick. Weird. If it's not obviously explained or understood, do away with it. 

Regarding the Krampus and suspension.... I still don't understand the need but that's me again....the non-suspension guy. Would love to be able to at least test one but that's kind of like asking to for a ride on Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer here in Germany. If I want to try it I'll have to buy one.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

SlowerJoe said:


> anyone know if this tire rim combo fits a niner carbon fork
> I need some reliable winter suspension for my single speed


SJ, i too looked at this a few weeks ago and believe it will fit.

Heres a couple of the similar pics i found from a few weeks back. I currrently run 2.4RR front and back on my One9 and always seem to be looking at this thread when im away from my bike so have not actually measured my own bike.

The tyre in the pic is a 2.5 Kodiak and the Knards are 30.4" high, the Kodiak must be near to 29.5", IIRC Ralphs are close to that too.


----------



## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

I have to admit I didn't read the whole thread Ozzy but is there a real world width measurement on these
I think this tire would be perfect for taking the edge off of roots

Sj


----------



## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

SlowerJoe said:


> I have to admit I didn't read the whole thread Ozzy but is there a real world width measurement on these
> I think this tire would be perfect for taking the edge off of roots
> 
> Sj


Start Here

Surly does have information available on their web site.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Nice one davyray !


----------



## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

I usually don't trust manufacturers but the numbers look good so thanks guys 

Sj


----------



## modifier (May 11, 2007)

SlowerThenSnot said:


> Just wow negative rep over this? I seen the nard and fox combo in person and its not something i'd risk, just throwing my .02 out there


It wasn't me. I think I have only given neg once of twice since the feature was added, period, but perhaps what they were reacting to is the fear of going beyond liability induced standards. Like all the press about not being able to run 650 tires in 26er forks. On Fox forks there is absolutely no interference and yet Fox and MTBAction both say don't do it or you could die.

I don't have a Knard yet so I don't know how tight they really are but if it fits it fits.

I have a 650 wheel in Pace fork and on steep down ramps with quick transitions or some drops the tire will rub on the crown if I don't have enough comp dampening dialed in and make a fair amount of noise, but if it wasn't for the noise I wouldn't know it even happened. It does not slow you down perceptively even with a ton of weight over the bars.

So while some mud may slow you down I doubt it would send you over the bars and as far as a rock or a stick, if they were big enough, they could stop a tire with legal clearance too and a little rock or stick will likely just pass through as the tire keeps rolling.

There can always be a perfect storm but fair weather is more likely.

Imo.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

So, who all has one of these puppies on order? I missed my chance, and will be waiting 'til spring for a frameset, I'm afraid.


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## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

Finally jumping to a "29er", eh sasquatch? It should "fit" you better than that 1x1. 

From what 3 bike shops told me thus far, even the framesets may be scarce come spring time.


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## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

ozzybmx said:


> SJ, i too looked at this a few weeks ago and believe it will fit.


When I measured my Niner cf fork, I didn't get the impression the Knard/RH combo would fit, but I used a totally non accurate measuring method (tape measure and eyeball), so hopefully someone with some calipers can give us a more definite answer. This would be a great combo I think, although the Rabbit Hole with an Ardent 2.4" would probably do well also.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

spam reported 


Sj


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

rob1035 said:


> When I measured my Niner cf fork, I didn't get the impression the Knard/RH combo would fit, but I used a totally non accurate measuring method (tape measure and eyeball), so hopefully someone with some calipers can give us a more definite answer. This would be a great combo I think, although the Rabbit Hole with an Ardent 2.4" would probably do well also.


Im not sure on the rabbit hole rims, but i reckon they will just about fit on my current 29" front wheel.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

reported 
wish a krampus would grab these spammers and drag them to his layer to become dinner

Sj


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## BluNosDav (Jan 31, 2012)

Sure glad the first Krampus deliveries will actually begin very soon.
New threads are needed to take the place of this "War and Peace" length saga.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

Spam reported SlowerJoer


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> So, who all has one of these puppies on order? I missed my chance, and will be waiting 'til spring for a frameset, I'm afraid.


I have a frameset, rims, and tires on order. My LBS is saying December. One of the things I'm trying to figure out is what to do for the front hub. I have a set of DT 350s that I was going to use, but I think I'm going to want front suspension once the fork compatibility issues become clearer. I should probably use a hub that is convertible to one of the thru-axle variants; the 350 front hub is not.


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

i've got a Hope Pro 2 lined up specifically for the same reasons. i plan on using it with a DT RWS skewer with the rigid fork, then switching to a 15mm TA once suspension fork options become clear.


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## dvo1 (May 28, 2006)

sanjuanswan said:


> I have a frameset, rims, and tires on order. My LBS is saying December. One of the things I'm trying to figure out is what to do for the front hub. I have a set of DT 350s that I was going to use, but I think I'm going to want front suspension once the fork compatibility issues become clearer. I should probably use a hub that is convertible to one of the thru-axle variants; the 350 front hub is not.


Front hubs are cheap, I am not a fan of buying twice, (but I always do) do yourself a favor and build the wheel with a convertible hub and then you don't have to build the wheel twice.


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## ironman13 (Aug 3, 2009)

I love krampus


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## Akita man (Nov 21, 2012)

*Krampus...by others?*

I keep thinking there must be existing 29er frames that have more than normal tire clearance allowing one to build a 29er +. Especially some of the frames designed to be SS. If the bike is 1. Steel (smaller diameter tubes) and 2. has sliding rear drop-outs (longer chain stays), I would think someone could find an existing frame that will accommodate the Rabbit hole rims and the Knard Tires.

I measured and re-measured my Sawyer...which has both steel tubes and sliding drop outs. Not quite there...I have Schwalabe Racing Ralph 2.4's with adequate room and the adjusters on the drop-outs at mid way. Pushing them further back will offer more room...likely not enough. The other issue with the Sawyer is the sliding drops move on an arch...not a straight line. Not enough is gained.

I still have 3/8" on each side of the 2.4's.

Maybe some 29er steel frames out there has better geometry for this. 
I'd be curious to know if any of you have been performing similar measurements on your bikes...since the Knard 3.0 tires have launched.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

Akita man said:


> I keep thinking there must be existing 29er frames that have more than normal tire clearance allowing one to build a 29er +.


oh there are....they are called "snow bikes"


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Akita man said:


> I keep thinking there must be existing 29er frames that have more than normal tire clearance allowing one to build a 29er +. Especially some of the frames designed to be SS. If the bike is 1. Steel (smaller diameter tubes) and 2. has sliding rear drop-outs (longer chain stays), I would think someone could find an existing frame that will accommodate the Rabbit hole rims and the Knard Tires.
> 
> I measured and re-measured my Sawyer...which has both steel tubes and sliding drop outs. Not quite there...I have Schwalabe Racing Ralph 2.4's with adequate room and the adjusters on the drop-outs at mid way. Pushing them further back will offer more room...likely not enough. The other issue with the Sawyer is the sliding drops move on an arch...not a straight line. Not enough is gained.
> 
> ...


I have been thinking this same thing, and I have a frame that I think will work. It's a Carver Ti frame with sliding dropouts. It currently has a Stans Flow rim and an Ardent 2.4 in the back. With the sliders all the way forward, this setup still has plenty of room, more than 1/2" on each side.

I actually managed to squeeze a Larry tire in there last winter! Kind of Larry was on a 35mm rim, and I dimpled the chain and seat stays for a little extra clearance. I road it a couple of times last winter, and it worked well. That is until the tire plumped up a bit and started rubbing.

Oh, and you say the Knard 3.0 has launched? More info please!


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## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

That's impressive clearance on that Carver. I'm sure the Knard will fit without problems. Good luck trying to get Rabbit Hole rims, though. They said only sold with frameset. Since I don't need a frameset, my only option for the Knard is Velocity Blunt 35 (aka P-35). Velocity did say they've got 45mm's in the works for spring '13, though.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

according to qbp:
krampus arrival: mid december
Knard 26x3.8: already arrived and in stock
Knard 27tpi: march
Knard 120tpi: early January

I might get a krampus frame when they come out and run 2.4 ardents on p35's, which I already have. I'll switch to tires to knard when the cheaper 27tpi tire is available and hope it runs well on p35. up front will be my new bud 26x4.8!!!


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## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

PG - If you end up getting a Krampus frame, please get the RH rims! I'll buy them from you.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

phsycle said:


> PG - If you end up getting a Krampus frame, please get the RH rims! I'll buy them from you.


I will, as I'm sure you or somebody(if you changed your mind) would be happy to buy them!

But since I noticed that I can run a knard on a pugsley, I might not wait for the Krampus frame.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

I plan to get a Krampus to use as a beater/goofing off/muddy weather bike. 

I'm going to beat the heck out of it and not worry about wrecking it.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

phsycle said:


> That's impressive clearance on that Carver. I'm sure the Knard will fit without problems. Good luck trying to get Rabbit Hole rims, though. They said only sold with frameset. Since I don't need a frameset, my only option for the Knard is Velocity Blunt 35 (aka P-35). Velocity did say they've got 45mm's in the works for spring '13, though.


Kris Holm makes a 29er rim in 38 mm. Big weight increase though over the P-35 for just a few extra mm's. Salsa Gordo is also similar to the P-35's.


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## Hachio (Dec 2, 2012)

Hi, first post on this forum and english is not my native language, so please try to bear with me.
Krampus seems like a multipurpose swiss knife of riding at the moment. It is quite pricey for a rigid 29er, but on the other hand...
You could spend the same sum in more stupid things too. "Pure" fatbike would be too much of a "crawler" for me and KM seems too dull, so that's why im going for Krampus.

It seems like the geometry of Krampus frames makes the choosing not so straightforward and easy. I am 178cm tall, normal sized legs and arms, no long back, etc.
I have been riding happily my 53cm Steamroller with 90mm stem and riser bar. If i had to choose blindly, without test driving Krampus... I would maybe go for medium at the moment.
I would like to discuss about Krampus frame sizes, just because it seems like people who have driven one, haven´t talk too much about it.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

Hachio said:


> Hi, first post on this forum and english is not my native language, so please try to bear with me.
> Krampus seems like a multipurpose swiss knife of riding at the moment. It is quite pricey for a rigid 29er, but on the other hand...
> You could spend the same sum in more stupid things too. "Pure" fatbike would be too much of a "crawler" for me and KM seems too dull, so that's why im going for Krampus.
> 
> ...


I pre-ordered a large Krampus. I am 4cm taller than you with a 81cm inseam.

I will report back on the fit once I received it and build it up.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

Hachio said:


> Hi, first post on this forum and english is not my native language, so please try to bear with me.
> Krampus seems like a multipurpose swiss knife of riding at the moment. It is quite pricey for a rigid 29er, but on the other hand...
> You could spend the same sum in more stupid things too. "Pure" fatbike would be too much of a "crawler" for me and KM seems too dull, so that's why im going for Krampus.
> 
> ...


Blog | Surly Bikes



> 6. What sizes does it come in?
> 
> Stop ending your sentences with prepositions. The Krampus will be sized a bit differently than our other mountain bicycles. Traditionally, we've gone the 16", 18", 20", and 22" size route with these (with the addition of a few 14" sizes and a 24"). That measurement is taken from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the top tube where it meets the seat tube (or, in the last few years, where the gusset tube meets the seat tube.)
> 
> The Krampus is sized differently because it has a real tall fork. If we did our regular sizing, the standover would be too tall for the size and confusion would set in, follwed by pitchforks and torches. As such, we've taken to calling the Krampus small, medium, large, and extra-large. We're going to add that bit of creative wordlieness to our other models too, so generally if you ride a 22" extra large Karate Monkey (like myself), you'll also be wanting to get an extra large Krampus (only, the Krampus seat tube will be a scosh shorter than 22") - get it? Of course you do.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

29buzz said:


> Rode the mighty Krampus this weekend! Had a large frame already on order-but found the XL was spot on for me. I already ride 2.4 Mtn Kings on P35 rims-and I do not think the tires will work on these "little" rims-they are big,really big. The ride was just enough more cush than the set I use-enough to convince me to get the whole pakage complete(and the green paint rocks!) As a rigid rider-not racer-whole love rough tecnical trails-this will be a perfect bike. It handles very well on singletrack-good balence. Also likes to go fast in the roots. I took the roughest rooty lines-and also rode my own wheels the same-it was eye opening how much smoother. I didn't go real low on the tire pressure-did'nt want to risk a problem-I could have gone much lower. It rides like a 29er-not a fatbike though-if you get a chance try one. I am stoked-now to wait the mothes away till it comes in. I cant post pics-but there are some on my FB....bz truewheel. I compared a 3.8/3.0.2.2 in one shot-shows alot! Also saw/played with 2013 Salsa's....Mukluk/Spearfish/Horsethief/El Mar.....the line is gonna be in my shop if I can swing it...all are very empressive this year!


I rode the large just after Buzz. I have ordered a large. I'm about 73" or 185cm tall. I only rode one for about 45 minutes.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

renegade44 said:


> Kris Holm makes a 29er rim in 38 mm. Big weight increase though over the P-35 for just a few extra mm's. Salsa Gordo is also similar to the P-35's.


Kris Holm also makes a 47mm wide 29er rim, it's drilled and supposedly 795g. I have no experience with it, but it's another options. It's meant for unicycling, so I imagine it's plenty strong.

I have something else in the works though :thumbsup:

Mark


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## Flat Pedals (Apr 22, 2011)

Has anyone taken a Krampus on a legit snow ride? I don't want a full on fat bike. The Krampus seems for me living in the Bay area but spending time in Tahoe and Salt Lake frequently that I could use this for and adventure bike for all elevations. My concern would be if I got it and it didn't ride that well in typical winter riding conditions like those found in the fat bike scene.


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## lactat (Nov 6, 2004)

I under stand you can run RH and 29 knard on a pugsley.

Does a 26 knard fit into a Krampus?


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

Flat Pedals said:


> Has anyone taken a Krampus on a legit snow ride? I don't want a full on fat bike. The Krampus seems for me living in the Bay area but spending time in Tahoe and Salt Lake frequently that I could use this for and adventure bike for all elevations. My concern would be if I got it and it didn't ride that well in typical winter riding conditions like those found in the fat bike scene.


not gonna be a lot of difference in "float" between the krampus and a 2.4 on a wider rim. your better off putting the nokia studded tire on a 29er and running that for harder snow. and then getting a pug or moonlander type(regular/extra wide) of snow bike.

the wider more "knobby" new snow tires are a improvement over the first enodomorphs that are good on flat but slip out going uphill


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> not gonna be a lot of difference in "float" between the krampus and a 2.4 on a wider rim. your better off putting the nokia studded tire on a 29er and running that for harder snow. and then getting a pug or moonlander type(regular/extra wide) of snow bike.
> 
> the wider more "knobby" new snow tires are a improvement over the first enodomorphs that are good on flat but slip out going uphill


Though I have not ridden a Krampus, I think it will certainly be an improvement in float over a 2.4 29er. According to Surly's measurements, the Knard will be about 20mm wider than a Racing Ralph when they are mounted on a Rabbit Hole. I don't think it will be as good as full fat, but it will be pretty close to a 26x3.7 tire.

I am looking forward to finding out!


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

bikeny said:


> Though I have not ridden a Krampus, I think it will certainly be an improvement in float over a 2.4 29er. According to Surly's measurements, the Knard will be about 20mm wider than a Racing Ralph when they are mounted on a Rabbit Hole. I don't think it will be as good as full fat, but it will be pretty close to a 26x3.7 tire.
> 
> I am looking forward to finding out!


everybody is entitled to their opinion. so i will add a "IMO" to this and not trying to start an argument, just sharing my experience living in park city where we get our share of deep snow.

my pug was good in the soft snow with a hardpack underneath, until it got past the axles. then the resistance would interfere with traction. any kind of hill would cause the very small knobby's of the endomorph to slip. 
i think this has solve with the new generation of wider rims and bigger/bigger knob tires

on hardpack to soft snow up to 6-8 inches the 29er with nokian studs did better due to above traction issue. after that the thinner 29er tires lost float to the wider pug tires.

trying regular 1.9 to 2.4 tires on the 29er did not make any difference as far as float or grip. air pressure made much more difference. so extrapolating from that. the knard verses a 2.4 tire would not make enough 'float" difference in snow past 8". anything less would be the same.

the only possible difference is that you can lower the PSI on the knard and get more grip on hardpack than a 2.4. but that will vary with rider weight and snow type. the studded tire will still out perform the knard on hardpack.

again please only take this as IMO.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

ascarlarkinyar said:


> everybody is entitled to their opinion. so i will add a "IMO" to this and not trying to start an argument, just sharing my experience living in park city where we get our share of deep snow.
> 
> my pug was good in the soft snow with a hardpack underneath, until it got past the axles. then the resistance would interfere with traction. any kind of hill would cause the very small knobby's of the endomorph to slip.
> i think this has solve with the new generation of wider rims and bigger/bigger knob tires
> ...


You seem to have plenty of experience riding on snow, certainly more than I do. I was just commenting that your first statement was over-generalized. You simply stated it would not make much of a difference. There are so many different kinds of snow conditions we just can't say yes or no at this point. You provided some specific examples which are great. I am just saying that there are guaranteed to be snow conditions where a Knard/RH combo will work better than a 2.4 29er tire. Just as there are conditions that a BFL will work better than a regular Larry. That is about the same percent change in tire width.

This is of course just IMO 

I really just want to know when I can get my hands on some 29er Knard! 120 TPI please!


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

I made CAD models of a Knard 29x3 and a Larry 26x3.8. The image shows the cross section of each tire at it's widest point. I know there will be significant inaccuracy here since the tires aren't compressed and the rim widths have to be to narrow with the geometryI'm using to get the widths and heights right. I did this to get some idea of what effect the larger diameter of the Knard would have. The area numbers for the two "contact patches" are 36 & 48 for the Knard and the Larry, so the Knard has 3/4 of the contact patch of the Larry by this inaccurate method. I'm hoping the Krampus will do nicely for the little bit of snow and sand I encounter.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

Eddiecycle said:


> I made CAD models of a Knard 29x3 and a Larry 26x3.8. The image shows the cross section of each tire at it's widest point. I know there will be significant inaccuracy here since the tires aren't compressed and the rim widths have to be to narrow with the geometryI'm using to get the widths and heights right. I did this to get some idea of what effect the larger diameter of the Knard would have. The area numbers for the two "contact patches" are 36 & 48 for the Knard and the Larry, so the Knard has 3/4 of the contact patch of the Larry by this inaccurate method. I'm hoping the Krampus will do nicely for the little bit of snow and sand I encounter.


I recognize that you are a CAD jockey, and have used the word "inaccuracy" in your write-up.

Calculating the shape of the actual contact patch of each of these tires with some assumed rider weight and some target tire pressure would take some involved math, even assuming a hard road surface. Figuring out the contact patch of the same tire and rider weight on snow would take enough math to make my head hurt.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

DavyRay said:


> I recognize that you are a CAD jockey, and have used the word "inaccuracy" in your write-up.
> 
> Calculating the shape of the actual contact patch of each of these tires with some assumed rider weight and some target tire pressure would take some involved math, even assuming a hard road surface. Figuring out the contact patch of the same tire and rider weight on snow would take enough math to make my head hurt.


But even so it should be relative shouldn't it? Not compressed to not compressed and compressed to compressed. It may not be exact but should give a reasonable comparison.

I'm not saying it's a snow tire. I think it will be marginal for that application and I don't think that is it's intended design purpose.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Eddiecycle said:


> I made CAD models of a Knard 29x3 and a Larry 26x3.8. The image shows the cross section of each tire at it's widest point. I know there will be significant inaccuracy here since the tires aren't compressed and the rim widths have to be to narrow with the geometryI'm using to get the widths and heights right. I did this to get some idea of what effect the larger diameter of the Knard would have. The area numbers for the two "contact patches" are 36 & 48 for the Knard and the Larry, so the Knard has 3/4 of the contact patch of the Larry by this inaccurate method. I'm hoping the Krampus will do nicely for the little bit of snow and sand I encounter.


The problem with the above model is it's not the cross section that matters, but the contact patch. 29" tires have a longer contact patch than 26" tires. I don't think there is any accurate way to determine what the contact patch would be in a CAD model, just too many variables involved.


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## Hachio (Dec 2, 2012)

Does the complete come with SLX or Zee crankset & BB?
On Surlys website, listed as an SLX, but in picture there is a Zee crankset.
Would allready like to hit order-button, but I also want to know what I´m paying for.
IMO at the moment theres too much mysteries, myths and pure guessing around Krampus and that kills interests of many potential buyers.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

bikeny said:


> The problem with the above model is it's not the cross section that matters, but the contact patch. 29" tires have a longer contact patch than 26" tires. I don't think there is any accurate way to determine what the contact patch would be in a CAD model, just too many variables involved.


Wow... it seems to me that you guys are REALLY worrying WAY too much about this. If you're not using the Fatty for snow (it's theoretical, original idea) then it's about having fun.... right? Maybe you should go ride your bike.

As my neighbors, the Italians like to say.... Piccolo, basta!  Of course, you're welcome to keep beating your heads against the wall if you like.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

modifier said:


> But even so it should be relative shouldn't it? Not compressed to not compressed and compressed to compressed. It may not be exact but should give a reasonable comparison.
> 
> I'm not saying it's a snow tire. I think it will be marginal for that application and I don't think that is it's intended design purpose.


CAD is about getting geometry from actual numeric values. I would like to be able to use CAD to determine a contact patch shape. Maybe someone will figure out a reasonable way to do this.

I do think that the wider tire with a shorter contact patch should be much better on soft surfaces. If I wanted a snow bike, I'd get a Pugsley or a Mukluk.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

Hachio said:


> Does the complete come with SLX or Zee crankset & BB?
> On Surlys website, listed as an SLX, but in picture there is a Zee crankset.
> Would allready like to hit order-button, but I also want to know what I´m paying for.
> IMO at the moment theres too much mysteries, myths and pure guessing around Krampus and that kills interests of many potential buyers.


Good observation. You might try calling Surly, or sending email, or asking your LBS. I know a regional rep for QBP who can get answers from the factory. The SLX crankset has been on the complete bike parts list for some time on their website. I have seen SLX and TruVative cranks on the demo bikes. I have also read some comments that the Zee crankset was being considered.

If Surly is going to make their March 2013 date for the complete Krampus, they should have all the parts in the pipeline right now.


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

bikeny said:


> The problem with the above model is it's not the cross section that matters, but the contact patch. 29" tires have a longer contact patch than 26" tires. I don't think there is any accurate way to determine what the contact patch would be in a CAD model, just too many variables involved.


The model does take into account the lengths of the contact patches fairly accurately, and you can see this looking at the two synthetic contact patches in the image. It's the width that's gonna be way off here.

As far as a more accurate model, if I get time I'll work on a model that includes deformation in the tire. It's certainly not easy, but I think it's do-able.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Hachio said:


> Does the complete come with SLX or Zee crankset & BB?
> On Surlys website, listed as an SLX, but in picture there is a Zee crankset.
> Would allready like to hit order-button, but I also want to know what I´m paying for.
> IMO at the moment theres too much mysteries, myths and pure guessing around Krampus and that kills interests of many potential buyers.


How can you "hit order-button"? QBP only has itemwatch...and that's for the frame, the complete is not in the online catalog. Am I missing something?

I don't think the full parts list is out yet, but they've got to be committing to them soon. Even big manufacturers change parts and have pics in the catalog that don't match the parts list. I doubt if much interest is killed.



> I know a regional rep for QBP who can get answers from the factory.


surly doesn't have a factory. You mean that rep tells you he calls up a factory in Taiwan that surly/qbp contracts for the production and they tell him what's going on? That surprises me a lot. It makes me wonder if the rep might be full of it. Am I mistaken about how surly's operations work?


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

PretendGentleman said:


> How can you "hit order-button"? QBP only has itemwatch...and that's for the frame, the complete is not in the online catalog. Am I missing something?
> 
> I don't think the full parts list is out yet, but they've got to be committing to them soon. Even big manufacturers change parts and have pics in the catalog that don't match the parts list. I doubt if much interest is killed.
> 
> surly doesn't have a factory. You mean that rep tells you he calls up a factory in Taiwan that surly/qbp contracts for the production and they tell him what's going on? That surprises me a lot. It makes me wonder if the rep might be full of it. Am I mistaken about how surly's operations work?


I have no idea how Surly's operations work. I do think that they have people in Minnesota who decide what parts are going to go on the complete bikes. Call it what you will. She gets her information from Minnesota, not Taiwan.


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## Hachio (Dec 2, 2012)

DavyRay said:


> If Surly is going to make their March 2013 date for the complete Krampus, they should have all the parts in the pipeline right now.


My point exactly.



PretendGentleman said:


> How can you "hit order-button"? QBP only has itemwatch...and that's for the frame, the complete is not in the online catalog. Am I missing something?
> 
> I don't think the full parts list is out yet, but they've got to be committing to them soon. Even big manufacturers change parts and have pics in the catalog that don't match the parts list. I doubt if much interest is killed.


Can we call it "preorder-button" then, would it make difference? I would like to know parts and details before ordering, because those are still effecting my decision to purchase. 
Does anyone else think, that it would have been amazing to release Krampus for sale on christmas, not months after it? Schedules, manufacturing, marketing, etc. I know, I know...
All takes time and messes up plans, but still I see christmas as a opportunity to make some money.

But yeah, marketing very well done. Now it´s all about getting facts instead of christmas myths on the table. Preferably before christmas.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Putting the cart before the horse with this question will likely get me some greif but...

Anyknow if the Knard/RH will be tubeless conversion friendly?

This bike does seem pretty cool. Love the color.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Hachio, I pre-ordered the complete bike back in September. The QBP rep told my shop it will be built with the SLX cranks and rear derailleur.
Keep in mind that what you see on their website may be a pre-production build, hence the Zee cranks. (this is a total hypothesis on my part).
Regarding pre-orders... I hope you can find one. I was told that the pre-orders (for March '13 delivery) were sold out by October.


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## Paranoid_Android (Oct 11, 2006)

Hachio said:


> My point exactly.
> 
> Can we call it "preorder-button" then, would it make difference? I would like to know parts and details before ordering, because those are still effecting my decision to purchase.
> .


Unless I'm misinformed there is no way for you to pre-order at this time. I'm sure when you do pre-order they won't go changing the spec on you. Nothing to worry about.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

1 Speed said:


> Wow... it seems to me that you guys are REALLY worrying WAY too much about this. If you're not using the Fatty for snow (it's theoretical, original idea) then it's about having fun.... right? Maybe you should go ride your bike.
> 
> As my neighbors, the Italians like to say.... Piccolo, basta!  Of course, you're welcome to keep beating your heads against the wall if you like.


Once a thread starts to get technical there has to be at lest one "don't think, ride" post. So thanks for that. LOL If everyone "thought" like that then bikes like the Krumpus would not exist.

We are way past "fat bikes are for snow" and I guess you mean by just "about having fun" that fat bikes are just kind of silly and not really efficient bicycles but still a fun novelty.

My experience is that they do most things better off road than skinny tired bicycles can and the more extreme the terrain the more they stand out. There are still situations where skinny is better but most of the time I'll choose the FS fat and be riding faster and longer on harder terrain. And yeah I guess that is more fun


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

modifier said:


> My experience is that they do most things better off road than skinny tired bicycles can and the more extreme the terrain the more they stand out.


Took a serious beater last night, my whole body aches.

You know how when you are flying through the air after you part ways with your bike? You have all that time it seems, and all these thoughts go through your head before you crash into terra firma?

Only thought in my damn head was, that never would have happened if I'd been on my fatty...

Sad thing is, in hindsight, I think I was right. :madman:

Fargin' skinny wheels. BAH, I need some Advil....


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Eddiecycle said:


> The model does take into account the lengths of the contact patches fairly accurately, and you can see this looking at the two synthetic contact patches in the image. It's the width that's gonna be way off here.
> 
> As far as a more accurate model, if I get time I'll work on a model that includes deformation in the tire. It's certainly not easy, but I think it's do-able.


Your model shows the cross section of each tire, which is very different than the contact patch. The contact patch for the Knard will be longer and narrower than the contact patch of the Larry. The air pressure in the tire, the weight of the rider, and the width of the rim will all effect the contact patch as well.


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

bikeny said:


> Your model shows the cross section of each tire, which is very different than the contact patch. The contact patch for the Knard will be longer and narrower than the contact patch of the Larry. The air pressure in the tire, the weight of the rider, and the width of the rim will all effect the contact patch as well.


I'm not sure, but I think you may be misunderstanding the model. The cross-section is taken as if you sliced through your tire about 1.5 inches above the ground, parallel with the ground (1.9" for the Larry). Definitely not as accurate as modeling or measuring somehow a sagged tire, but it still does take into account the longer contact patch. I did it this way assuming that someone riding the fatter tire would lower the pressure to the point that they would be "sagged" more into the tire. I was as surprised as you when I saw that the contact patch would still be longer on the Larry than it is on the Knard. Obviously this would not be the case if they tires were both the same width.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

I think two tires with the same air pressure and the same weight applied will have the same amount of contact area between tire and ground. The wider tire will have a wider and shorter contact patch. A BFL and a Knard with 15psi in each, and the same weight applied to the axle should have the same contact area.

Try solving for equal areas on the two cross sections, and you will be closer to actual results.


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

DavyRay said:


> I think two tires with the same air pressure and the same weight applied will have the same amount of contact area between tire and ground. The wider tire will have a wider and shorter contact patch. A BFL and a Knard with 15psi in each, and the same weight applied to the axle should have the same contact area.
> 
> Try solving for equal areas on the two cross sections, and you will be closer to actual results.


I'm working under the assumption that the tire with the larger volume will be run at a lower pressure. That's definitely how I roll.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

So what's this I hear about framesets not being available until February now?


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Took a serious beater last night, my whole body aches.
> 
> You know how when you are flying through the air after you part ways with your bike? You have all that time it seems, and all these thoughts go through your head before you crash into terra firma?
> 
> ...


Ha! Yeah that happens. Talking about time slowing down...once when I was a little kid and tired, I was running in the yard and tripped and fell asleep as I was flying through the air. Rude awakening.

I've always been after the 'rides like a dirtbike' feeling on a mtb and the advent of fat tires, more travel and slacker angles they have gotten much closer to that level of control. I've been heavy into dirtbikes in the woods lately and man that is a whole other world of being able to deal with terrain. At a high rate of speed. Really fun.


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> So what's this I hear about framesets not being available until February now?


Heard something similar: now completes will arrive first, sometime in January, and frames in February (though this is in Canada). Be nice if Surly could update things.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

chunkylover53 said:


> Heard something similar: now completes will arrive first, sometime in January, and frames in February (though this is in Canada). Be nice if Surly could update things.


QBP says Feb 1st on their website. Completes are not even on the website, so I would assume those will be further out...


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

Went into my LBS last night to get the sprocket on my Rohloff loosened. It's been a few months and I was pleased to see they now stock Surly. They had an Ogre ... and a Troll ... and a Moonlander ... and a Pugsley ... and many skinned Long Haul Trucker carcasses hanging from the rafters. No Krampus yet though.



modifier said:


> Talking about time slowing down...once when I was a little kid and tired, I was running in the yard and tripped and fell asleep as I was flying through the air. Rude awakening.


WTF?!?


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> So what's this I hear about framesets not being available until February now?


I don't know about availability for everyone.

I visited my LBS a couple of hours ago, to check on delivery for my pre-ordered Krampus frameset. They called, and were told that the pre-order framesets are expected to ship the second week of January, 2013.

I did not ask about availability of completes or of non-pre-order items.


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## slowridemo (Jan 17, 2006)

Kind of off topic, but look what just showed up on shirt.woot:


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

*Knard availability?*

Anyone have an update on when the Knard will be available to purchase on it's own? I really need to get my hands on a pair!


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

bikeny said:


> Anyone have an update on when the Knard will be available to purchase on it's own? I really need to get my hands on a pair!


Last QBP word was early Jan. for 120tpi and March for 27tpi. Until proven otherwise, expect delays.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Who can I pre-order a complete from?


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

SyT said:


> Who can I pre-order a complete from?


You can probably call a LBS in your area to do a pre-order. Most bike shops buy from QBP, and can order Surly stuff. My LBS took a credit card deposit via phone.


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## FTMN (May 10, 2010)

DavyRay said:


> You can probably call a LBS in your area to do a pre-order. Most bike shops buy from QBP, and can order Surly stuff. My LBS took a credit card deposit via phone.


I'm pretty sure the window of opportunity on per-orders closed a long time ago.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

I don't know about any pre-order option. It has not existed on the qbp website from the beginning. I suspect that qbp is not doing any kind of pre-order option for conventional shops. 

Any shop that takes your credit card for a deposit, I would guess, is just making you a promise that they don't know if they can keep. Fortunately for you its a cc, so you can back out any time on a whim.

I would have pre-ordered one a while ago if that option were available on the qbp site


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## FTMN (May 10, 2010)

As I understand it, "stocking dealers" were given the opportunity to pre-order earlier in the year. Not all shops with a Q account are Surly stocking dealers. I know of a few local Mpls shops that put in pre-orders.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

FTMN said:


> As I understand it, "stocking dealers" were given the opportunity to pre-order earlier in the year. Not all shops with a Q account are Surly stocking dealers. I know of a few local Mpls shops that put in pre-orders.


ah, makes sense! At least they'll let the rest of us get our hands on them someday unlike with salsa.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

I agree with y'all that the pre-order window is closed. I placed my pre-order for a Krampus frameset back in August or so, the first day that the pre-order period opened. I got feedback from the QBP regional sales rep about my order at a September demo weekend.

Sometime in the spring of 2013, complete bikes should be available. Time will tell, though.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Anyone have an update on the parts (frame, rims, tires) that were supposed to be available in early December? I'm wondering if a similar delay will happen for my complete bike pre-order.

One thing I would have liked to seen with the Krampus with a 135 mm front hub. I like being able to use a common hub for front and rear, and I've heard good things about the extra stiffness from running a 135 hub up front. It seems the big knard tires would benefit from a stronger wheel build. An option would be to replace the krampus fork with a salsa enabler fork (I'm a single speeder, so got some good candidate hubs/wheels already lying around). Specs:

Krampus Fork:
Axle-to-crown: 483mm
Rake: 47mm

Salsa Enabler Fork:
468mm axle to crown
45mm rake

How much do you think swapping the fork would affect things? Seems close enough not to have a drastic affect, especially since the krampus already has a relatively high bb.

Edit: Just to be clear, would be lacing the rabbit hole rims to a 135 hub and running Knard tires. So the only changes to the stock build would be hub and fork.

Jon


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## Go Kart Motzart (Jan 2, 2004)

It's pretty dumb when bike companies start hyping their product this far out. Looks like the buzz will be past it's peak well before the product actually launches.


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

renegade44 said:


> How much do you think swapping the fork would affect things? Seems close enough not to have a drastic affect, especially since the krampus already has a relatively high bb.


From a geometry standpoint those forks are totally different. It will change the geometry and it will effect the handling. You'll notice the difference riding but it's up to you how much that means to you. Some people go crazy over geometry.


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## Yogii (Jun 5, 2008)

> Krampus Fork:
> Axle-to-crown: 483mm
> Rake: 47mm
> 
> ...


Big phat Knard tires may not fit in the short fork, otherwise you might just have a mud scraper under the crown.
A 3-5lbs difference in tire pressure will be more noticeable than the different forks, IMHO.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Go Kart Motzart said:


> It's pretty dumb when bike companies start hyping their product this far out. Looks like the buzz will be past it's peak well before the product actually launches.


They kind of had no choice, from what I remember they were outed by sleuthy fatbike enthusiasts, lol


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Yogii said:


> Big phat Knard tires may not fit in the short fork, otherwise you might just have a mud scraper under the crown.
> A 3-5lbs difference in tire pressure will be more noticeable than the different forks, IMHO.


Salsa confirms enabler will fit the knard:
2013 Updates: Mukluk | Salsa Cycles


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## WMBigs (Jul 11, 2009)

GTR-33 said:


> From a geometry standpoint those forks are totally different. It will change the geometry and it will effect the handling. You'll notice the difference riding but it's up to you how much that means to you. Some people go crazy over geometry.


The shorter height may quicken steering, while the lesser rake would slow it down. Might feel the same on the trail. BB would be a touch lower. Be fun to do back to back rides.


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

I am making this post because I need 5 posts to start my own thread.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

From what I understand everyone who has someone else build their tires, even Specialized, is having trouble because the Japanese, Chinese and Taiwanese manufactures don't want to deal with making tires for others any more. I'll bet that is what is holding the bike up. The frame is a simpleton so I can't see that as being much of a factor.

If someone was smart and aggressive and had some backing they would set up a US plant and start making tires for every US company. Manufacturing a tire is not very high tech. At least not at this point. There might even be tax incentives to have an on shore facility. There should be.


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

modifier said:


> From what I understand everyone who has someone else build their tires, even Specialized, is having trouble because the Japanese, Chinese and Taiwanese manufactures don't want to deal with making tires for others any more. I'll bet that is what is holding the bike up. The frame is a simpleton so I can't see that as being much of a factor.
> 
> If someone was smart and aggressive and had some backing they would set up a US plant and start making tires for every US company. Manufacturing a tire is not very high tech. At least not at this point. There might even be tax incentives to have an on shore facility. There should be.


Maybe get all mtbr members to donate/invest in this facility.....now that would be cool


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

modifier said:


> From what I understand everyone who has someone else build their tires, even Specialized, is having trouble because the Japanese, Chinese and Taiwanese manufactures don't want to deal with making tires for others any more. I'll bet that is what is holding the bike up. The frame is a simpleton so I can't see that as being much of a factor.
> 
> If someone was smart and aggressive and had some backing they would set up a US plant and start making tires for every US company. Manufacturing a tire is not very high tech. At least not at this point. There might even be tax incentives to have an on shore facility. There should be.


Surly or not, this is a great idea. Don't call me Surly. Does anyone have a point of contact which is better than my LBS and / or local QBP rep?


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## hvrdberger (Jul 24, 2010)

*Studded tires?*

Has anyone tried studded tires on the Krampus? Do the Ice Spikers fit the 50 mm default Rabbit rims?


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

DavyRay said:


> Surly or not, this is a great idea. Don't call me Surly. Does anyone have a point of contact which is better than my LBS and / or local QBP rep?


Over the last few years I have done leg work on having tires built myself to fill gaps in what is on the market. I was first going to build a 4" knobby fat tire but dropped the ball and didn't get on it, then the Nate came out. Then I wanted to build a fat 3.25 knobby 650b in both XC and DH but by that time from talking with others in the industry who sell their own tires I learned of the trouble within the industry. It went from you have to order 1000 tires to you have to order 10,000 tires to we don't even want to deal with you. You being anyone outside of their company.

I'm not aggressive enough to do what it takes to set up a plant, but with the price of specialty tires getting up to $150 each and selling out every where they are offered I think the money is there if someone wanted to push for it. And now is the time before all the tire sellers figure out a way around their current manufacturing problems overseas.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

modifier said:


> From what I understand everyone who has someone else build their tires, even Specialized, is having trouble because the Japanese, Chinese and Taiwanese manufactures don't want to deal with making tires for others any more. I'll bet that is what is holding the bike up. The frame is a simpleton so I can't see that as being much of a factor.
> 
> If someone was smart and aggressive and had some backing they would set up a US plant and start making tires for every US company. Manufacturing a tire is not very high tech. At least not at this point. There might even be tax incentives to have an on shore facility. There should be.


Having worked for Goodyear I would say that you are wrong about tire manufacturing not being very high tech. There is a lot that goes into making tires. It's a pretty nasty job requiring very specialized equipment. You should see the giant earth mover tires Goodyear makes, they are HUGE! They say the pressure used to make those would shoot the tire to the moon (or at least space) if they ever exploded.

I used to know dudes who added the "carbon black" to the tires and they would have to scrub with Dawn soap for like an hour in the shower to get that stuff off their skin.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

But aren't tires still basically still laid up by hand? I've seen current videos of guys building Michelin tires and they are doing it by hand. And that is not a bicycle tire which is way simpler. I mean it's not like there is a machine where they throw all the stuff in a bin and press a button and out comes a tire at the other end. Or a cnc mill where you clamp down the block of metal close the guards and a computer does all the work. I think it's doable. But I have never been to a factory personally.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

modifier said:


> But aren't tires still basically still laid up by hand? I've seen current videos of guys building Michelin tires and they are doing it by hand. And that is not a bicycle tire which is way simpler. I mean it's not like there is a machine where they throw all the stuff in a bin and press a button and out comes a tire at the other end. Or a cnc mill where you clamp down the block of metal close the guards and a computer does all the work. I think it's doable. But I have never been to a factory personally.


There are Youtube videos about making bicycle tires in low volume for specialty markets. There are also web sites

Poppy Gall Design Studio Blog · Handmade Bicycle Tires - FMB

If you check out our own 650b forum, there are comments about the first handmade 650b tires. With the prices of special tires at the $150 level, there may be room for hand crafted products which are made to order.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

Quick search results:

How Are Bicycle Tyres Made - YouTube

Danny MacAskill & Friends Visit The Continental 2-Wheel Factory - YouTube

How a handmade tubular is made - YouTube


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

Thanks. I hadn't thought of tubulars. But that is an option. Here is one on making ATV tires. ATV Television Special - How Carlisle ATV Tires are Made P2 - YouTube

Could do fat 29er tires too. Of various persuasions. Fast and light to strong and knobby.

Better stop talking about this or someone is going to freak out that we are getting off topic. Even though after over 580 posts the Krampus has been pretty well hashed out until it becomes available


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

So, anyone have any news regarding availability of Knard tires?

I did notice a couple of mail order places have the Krampus forks in stock. Not sure what that means, but I guess it'e good news?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

> I did notice a couple of mail order places have the Krampus forks in stock. Not sure what that means, but I guess it'e good news?


I called a lot of shops, even spoke to folks at Surly HQ and QBP, they all said the tire was not in stock because Surly underestimated the demand.

Another bike shop told me that 850 Knard 29 x 3 tires had been received by the distributor and were claimed in a couple hours, but they had no idea who got the tires.

I spoke to Bikeman and they told me a story that parallels what they have published on their website:

"Surly Twenty Nine Plus (29+) Rabbit Hole rims and Knard tires are only available for purchase with a Surly 29+ Krampus frameset. Each frameset ordered allows you to order 2 (two) each of the 29+ rims and tires. As an example: Order 1 frameset and you may also order 2 (two) rims and 2 (two) tires. As another example: Order 2 (two) framesets and you may also order 4 (four) rims and 4 (four) tires. One final example: Order 0 (zero) framesets and you may order order 0 (zero) rims and 0 (zero) tires."

It's sad, really, the demand for this tire is now, best use is now, and Surly drops the ball. All of the shops suggested that this was how Surly did things :nono:

Will folks spend the money on a fat 29er tire come Summer?

I will buy one because it's the fattest tire I can get for 29er muni, but Surly will probably sell fewer tires to mountain bikers as the momentum is rapidly stalling...and all that Christmas money has already been spent elsewhere.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

im not sure drop the ball is a fair conclusion? they need to safeguard their livelihoods afterall and betting it all on a huge demand for 29+ would have been....optimistic? 

better business sense to make it, judge real demand and perhaps even introduce a 29+ nate with the second run of stuff... ~

i predict (not so clairvoyantly) that there will be one or two custom 29+ bikes at nahbs....in my minds eye i can see my short stay 1x10 83mm bb/150 rear 29+ bike quite soon indeed....


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

dRjOn said:


> im not sure drop the ball is a fair conclusion? they need to safeguard their livelihoods afterall and betting it all on a huge demand for 29+ would have been....optimistic?
> 
> better business sense to make it, judge real demand and perhaps even introduce a 29+ nate with the second run of stuff... ~
> 
> i predict (not so clairvoyantly) that there will be one or two custom 29+ bikes at nahbs....in my minds eye i can see my short stay 1x10 83mm bb/150 rear 29+ bike quite soon indeed....


Post up pics of your new bike when it's ready please. :thumbsup:

I'm beginnig to wonder when a person who wants one of the rims and one of the tires will be able to get one. I'd be happy to have a wheel by June, but even that is starting to look suspect. It would be nice if Surly could make an official announcement of some sort.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

> im not sure drop the ball is a fair conclusion?


There were hundreds of pre-orders made, all of those pre orders have to notified of the three month delay, many will be refunded (mine for instance). The shop I ordered from was quite peeved. So yeah, they messed up.

But delays seem to be a Surly thing, so I guess it's just par for the course, now we wait....


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

bluestatevirgin said:


> Post up pics of your new bike when it's ready please. :thumbsup:
> 
> I'm beginnig to wonder when a person who wants one of the rims and one of the tires will be able to get one. I'd be happy to have a wheel by June, but even that is starting to look suspect. It would be nice if Surly could make an official announcement of some sort.


What he said! It would be nice to have some sort of announcement, seeing as the 120 TPI tires were supposed to be releases now.

I have all the puzzle pieces for my own 29+ vehicle, except for the tires.

Nurse Ben: What's that you say about a 3 month delay? for framesets? where did you hear that?


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

dRjOn said:


> i predict (not so clairvoyantly) that there will be one or two custom 29+ bikes at nahbs....in my minds eye i can see my short stay 1x10 83mm bb/150 rear 29+ bike quite soon indeed....


The thought of having a custom built has been flying through my brain more and more -- to be honest if I could get rims and tires I might go for it.

My reasons (in priority order)

#1 I WANT IT NOW
#2 I 'm a mutant and want a longer top tube then the XL offers
#3 I'm thinkin I want a lower BB

now with your ideas I'm even further intrigued

Can you get steel or aluminum bb95? couldn't you push the chainstays out further on that?


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> But delays seem to be a Surly thing


Is Surly really any worse than the rest of the industry? I see posts on these boards constantly where folks are waiting for recently introduced products that have been delayed.

I tend to think that this has more to do with working the quirks out of a new product going to production. Especially when the production is overseas. I am an engineer who works in product design and introducing a new product to production always has some SNAFUs.

I think that these things are exaggerated in the bike industry because there is a lot of pressure to announce new products early, and it is probably a lot harder to predict demand (just guessing).


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

I already have the front wheel on my Jones and a rear rim on the way UMA 50mm. Im 
running Ardents now but really want the Knard for the front.That would put the front at 29x3.0 and the rear measures out to 2.6 . Almost a Krampus but way better geo IMO.


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## hvrdberger (Jul 24, 2010)

bikeny said:


> Though I have not ridden a Krampus, I think it will certainly be an improvement in float over a 2.4 29er. According to Surly's measurements, the Knard will be about 20mm wider than a Racing Ralph when they are mounted on a Rabbit Hole. I don't think it will be as good as full fat, but it will be pretty close to a 26x3.7 tire.
> 
> I am looking forward to finding out!


Please, if anyone could comment:

Is the stock Rabbit Hole rim too wide for a 2.25 inches studded tire like the Schwalbe Ice Spiker?


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

fixgeardan said:


> I already have the front wheel on my Jones and a rear rim on the way UMA 50mm. Im
> running Ardents now but really want the Knard for the front.That would put the front at 29x3.0 and the rear measures out to 2.6 . Almost a Krampus but way better geo IMO.


I'm going to do the same for my Jones as soon as I can get the rims & tires. Lucky you getting a Surly rim. Did you get the UMA second-hand?


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## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

bluestatevirgin said:


> I'm going to do the same for my Jones as soon as I can get the rims & tires. Lucky you getting a Surly rim. Did you get the UMA second-hand?


I'm in the same boat, but I think I will stick with a P35 for the rear. I'm also very leery of even the March delivery time, and suspect maybe summer time arrival. Good thing is, Velocity is also coming out with a 45mm rim, but unsure of the availability.

In the meantime, I broke down and built up a P35 front wheel for my Jones so I can at least ride.


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## Belatu (Oct 16, 2011)

clydeone said:


> The thought of having a custom built has been flying through my brain more and more -- to be honest if I could get rims and tires I might go for it.
> 
> My reasons (in priority order)
> 
> ...


Please be sure to email Surly regarding your desire for a XXL frame. I too am stuck waiting for potential future batches that would include this size or dreaming of a custom 29+ frame.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

The 645 ETT on the Krampus is actually longer then my current MTB (XL Gary fisher x-cal) and there are enough questions in my mind with regards to the Short stem - wide bar combo I think I would lean towards buying a stock XL just to see how it fit first


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

i dunno, if you step back i doubt you can _blame_ surly really? you have to suspect that an initial notification and planning of the construction of the tyres, rims and frames (including that neat and likely time consuming yoke) would be a looong range plan with several overseas companies.

there is probably some sort of finite range in numbers that were planned. then a pre order organised so that they dont over produce too early and have a bunch of unsold bikes and parts (capital) sitting around collecting dust. but lets just say there is a technical difficulty with all the newness here, along side slightly higher demand than was initially hoped. that might well account for all the issues.

i dont *know* if this is the reason for this happening, but it wouldnt be too great a leap to imagine its at least part way realistic?

but knowing surly, they will do a creditable job in trying to get bikes into folk's hands...i certainly cant wait...i think surly should be lauded for their forward thinking and willingness to get niche parts and bikes to the riders out here.

~


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

I remember back when the Monkey came out years ago. It was about the same sort of situation. There seemed to be an initial bunch to get them in peoples hands and then more started coming. Now, you can hardly go to anything bike related and there are Monkeys there... everywhere. It just takes time when things have to come half way around the world and you've not got complete control over the situation. Besides, if it is a quality related issue, wouldn't you rather wait a bit? 

Hell, I still haven't had a chance to ride one to see if I want it. Raspberries!


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

bluestatevirgin said:


> I'm going to do the same for my Jones as soon as I can get the rims & tires. Lucky you getting a Surly rim. Did you get the UMA second-hand?


Speedway actually has (or had a month ago) some 29er UMA rims in stock still, but only the drilled version. I talked with them and decided they would not be strong enough for my purposes. Send them an email if you're interested.

Another option that's available now is the Kris Holm 29er rim, 47mm wide double wall, but only available in 36 hole. Should be plenty strong!

I have wheels and a frame ready to go, just waiting (impatiently!) for the Knard tires.

I can't wait to try out this combo, should be super fun!

PS: J.J's blog shows him building up a Rabbit Hole on an Industry Nine XX1 hub, looked pretty cool.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

fwiw: ive had a 50mm uma built to a paul whub with dt comps in occ use for a few years. it is not the most solid feeling wheel in the world (despite the 80mm between flanges), but i cant say its gioven me any actual issues. i wouldnt use it in rough terrain though...

the rabbit holes are like the marge lites, right? they have box section edges that will likely go a good way to increasing strength/rigidity...


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

dRjOn said:


> fwiw: ive had a 50mm uma built to a paul whub with dt comps in occ use for a few years. it is not the most solid feeling wheel in the world (despite the 80mm between flanges), but i cant say its gioven me any actual issues. i wouldnt use it in rough terrain though...
> 
> the rabbit holes are like the marge lites, right? they have box section edges that will likely go a good way to increasing strength/rigidity...


Drilled or undrilled UMA? I am using a 100mm Hope hub and plan to use it in rough terrain, thus the decision not to use a drilled UMA.

I'm not sure what the construction is on the Marge Lite, but the Rabbit Hole is kind of a single/double wall hybrid. Single at the bottom with some kind of box section at the sides. So yes, it should be a bunch stronger and stiffer.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

dRjOn said:


> i dunno, if you step back i doubt you can _blame_ surly really? you have to suspect that an initial notification and planning of the construction of the tyres, rims and frames (including that neat and likely time consuming yoke) would be a looong range plan with several overseas companies.
> 
> there is probably some sort of finite range in numbers that were planned. then a pre order organised so that they dont over produce too early and have a bunch of unsold bikes and parts (capital) sitting around collecting dust. but lets just say there is a technical difficulty with all the newness here, along side slightly higher demand than was initially hoped. that might well account for all the issues.
> 
> ...


Your using far to much reason here


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

my uma 29 is undrilled. i have a 26 drilled (built to the same hub) for use as a fat front and its fine...i used to have the uma 29 laced to a dt 240 100mm disc front hub but it felt far too flimsy for trail use. 

if the hub was like a chub with massive flanges it might be ok, but i wouldnt be convinced...i weight 86kg if thats any indication...

yeah, the marge lites i have seem to be the same construction idea...nice rims - id expect the rabbit holes to be good, and intend to get some.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

@ sts : i know what you mean! ;-)~


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

bluestatevirgin said:


> I'm going to do the same for my Jones as soon as I can get the rims & tires. Lucky you getting a Surly rim. Did you get the UMA second-hand?


I found someone who had 2 UMA rims brand new. Non drilled. Ive been on the front for a week now lots of slow rocky tech stuff and it feels very solid.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

bikeny said:


> Speedway actually has (or had a month ago) some 29er UMA rims in stock still, but only the drilled version. I talked with them and decided they would not be strong enough for my purposes. Send them an email if you're interested.
> 
> Another option that's available now is the Kris Holm 29er rim, 47mm wide double wall, but only available in 36 hole. Should be plenty strong!
> 
> ...


Funny I looked at what Holm had to offer today too. It seems if I could get hands on the Knards(That sounds really dirty) you could build a custom 29+


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## ironman13 (Aug 3, 2009)

where can i buy the knard tire ??? i live in spain, for me is better europe shop


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

ironman13 said:


> where can i buy the knard tire ??? i live in spain, for me is better europe shop


Nobody knows. The date of release keeps getting pushed back. Finding it in Europe may be even more difficult. May have to check Surly's website for European dealers.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Word from the shop I'm buying my Necro Pug from is that Krampii sets (frame, rims, & tires) are shipping 1/17 from Surly so if anyone is trying to get one, contact your dealer asap!


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## ironman13 (Aug 3, 2009)

thank you


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

The note I got from my shop showed the rabbit holes only on 1/17 frame on 2/1 and tires later 2/8?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Yeah....I don't think it's all going to ship on the 17th....due dates are still showing in Feb...and those are the due dates that have been pushed back and back and back for months..


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Surly updated their FB page yesterday saying frames, rims, tires shipping the 17th to dealers.

Dunno if this link will work


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Yeah....I don't think it's all going to ship on the 17th....due dates are still showing in Feb...and those are the due dates that have been pushed back and back and back for months..


pretty sure when surly announced the krampus, they said the individual items would be early december. so they are only a little month late (if they actually arrive per the new date)


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## FTMN (May 10, 2010)

Framesets, tires and rims were delivered to a bunch of MN bike shops today.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

FTMN said:


> Framesets, tires and rims were delivered to a bunch of MN bike shops today.


Does anyone know how long it will be before someone can get rims and tires without purchasing a frame set?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

bluestatevirgin said:


> Does anyone know how long it will be before someone can get rims and tires without purchasing a frame set?


Luck and timing will play a big part. Could be next week, could be late March.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

bluestatevirgin said:


> Does anyone know how long it will be before someone can get rims and tires without purchasing a frame set?


The old retail adage... When supply catches up with demand. The completes are still on schedule for March (according to my LBS who got the info from his QBP rep), so if I were to guess... around May.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

bluestatevirgin said:


> Does anyone know how long it will be before someone can get rims and tires without purchasing a frame set?


If your LBS has a QBP account, they can put an item watch on these. But all that does is notify the shop when they are available - they still have to jump on the items and get the order in at that time.

You still have to be patient. And for some of these new items that sell out quickly, the shop must be proactive.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Just FYI, two frame, rim and tire kits just showed up this AM. 

The Krampi are a-flowin'.... 

:thumbsup:


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

wadester said:


> If your LBS has a QBP account, they can put an item watch on these. But all that does is notify the shop when they are available - they still have to jump on the items and get the order in at that time.
> 
> You still have to be patient. And for some of these new items that sell out quickly, the shop must be proactive.


Oh, I'm patient. When it comes to the bike industry, I'm a believe it when I see it guy. Gives me time to store more change in the penny jar to pay for them anyways.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

I had my first dream of riding a Krampus lat night. It was rather disappointing ;way too short front to back and gigantically wide bars! 

qbp says feb 1st for the next lot.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

*It will be here soon*

My Krampus shipped today. Should arrive by the end of the week.

I guess it is time to order the King hubs.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

*It will be here soon*

My Krampus shipped today. Should arrive by the end of the week.

I guess it is time to order the King hubs.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

I picked up my Krampus frameset, rims, and tires this afternoon.

Surprise! The frame and fork are bass boat green, not matte black. Surly had said that the pre-order frames would be flat black. I do like the green better.

I got pictures, will upload them later.


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## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

Tripower said:


> My Krampus shipped today. Should arrive by the end of the week.
> 
> I guess it is time to order the King hubs.


Looking forward to read your thoughts on Krampus vs Jones comparo.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

*edit


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

Large frameset and parts. Photo taken this afternoon.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

stremf said:


> Looking forward to read your thoughts on Krampus vs Jones comparo.


Will do. I love my Ti Jones. Love my Fe Jones. Actually, I love all my bikes. I think the Krampus is going to be an excellent addition. Gives my bike less riding friends more variety to choose from.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

DavyRay said:


> Large frameset and parts. Photo taken this afternoon.


Out of curiosity, could you measure the distance between the rows of spoke holes? Please?

Thanks. Couldn't find it printed anywheres.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

wadester said:


> Out of curiosity, could you measure the distance between the rows of spoke holes? Please?
> 
> Thanks. Couldn't find it printed anywheres.


It wasn't printed anywhere I could find it.

Surly could learn a thing or two about supporting customers with information. I am glad you asked. I had made an assumption about that which turned out to be wrong.

As close as I can measure, the spoke holes are 13.5 to 14mm apart, center-to-center, left to right. That means offset off the rim centerline of 6.75mm to 7mm.

I read everything that Surly published, and had assumed a spacing more like some of their other rims. I ordered spokes already, based on spoke calcs using the 25mm spacing on their other rims. The spoke length should actually not change much because of this difference, so maybe the ones I ordered will be okay.


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## tswg (Aug 30, 2007)

Mine will be shipped tomorrow.

See the following page for how to set-up tubeless. 
Bye bye tubes. | While Out Riding


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

SOB downward facing dropouts on those forks is something I didn't want to see. Hard to believe a company made of riders would do such a thing.


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

Got to handle a large Krampus at Wheel Werks in Crystal Lake, Illinois yesterday. Very cool shop, nice owner. A "rider owned" bike business.

I mean this in a good way with no disrespect to other models - the Krampus looks really good for a Surly. Very clean and the chainstay bridge is very cool. I'd love black but that green is very cool and sparkly and that was only with indoor lighting. The Rabbit Hole rims feel scary light in the hand, but I'm used to overbuilding everything. Would have loved to see the Knards mounted and inflated but that might have brought out my credit card so I escaped with my money still in my pocket.  I will be back when the completes start rolling in.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

SyT said:


> SOB downward facing dropouts on those forks is something I didn't want to see. Hard to believe a company made of riders would do such a thing.


I think its to help with front wheel removal. Just loosen the quick release, squeeze the front brake, roll forward and plop, the wheel comes right out!


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

In myexperience (First gen Salsa Grande) the wheel also shifts under heavy braking. It didn't matter what skewer I used. Replaced with the new forward facing dropout salsa, zero poblem. I can only imagine with that big ass tire, the potential braking force will exceed what my current setup endures.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

XT skewers and a chain tensioner will solve axle slippage issues on these types of dropouts.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

DavyRay said:


> Large frameset and parts. Photo taken this afternoon.


no photos??


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> XT skewers and a chain tensioner will solve axle slippage issues on these types of dropouts.


I'm lost on how a chain tensioner can solve problems at the front wheel.
I've used several different skewers, including the type that are bolt heads and wrench cinched. No dice. The fix is forward facing dropouts. Salsa has learned this the hard way.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I missed that part 

An XT skewer still solved my front slippage issues on my Soul Cycles fork, though.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Treefort has frames, wheels and tires in stock. 
Just ordered my frame, two rabbit holes, two 120 tpi knards, slx brakes, hope hubs and some other odds n ends. The rest of the parts I have already. 

SS she'll be! Can't wait!


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## Akita man (Nov 21, 2012)

*Seat stay spacing*



DavyRay said:


> I picked up my Krampus frameset, rims, and tires this afternoon.
> 
> Surprise! The frame and fork are bass boat green, not matte black. Surly had said that the pre-order frames would be flat black. I do like the green better.
> 
> I got pictures, will upload them later.


DavyRay
Do me a favor an let me know the spacing between the chain stays on that frame. Where the widest part of the rear tire will likely reside. My guess is 90mm or so. I found a 29er frame with 80mm and wonder how close it is to the Krampus .


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

Tubeless confirmation:

Kniner Kramp9 RDO « Back Alley Bikes


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

Bad phone camera pic, but good enough to see mine is ready 

1x11, no front derailler issues. Tomorrow first ride, can't wait!

JJ


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

Nice JJ! Are you running the 156 or the 168 q-factor cranks? How's the clearance?


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## Go Kart Motzart (Jan 2, 2004)

Looks like mine shipped. :thumbsup:

Need to gather some parts ASAP. Any Krampus experts out there care to share anything I should be aware of....crank/bottom bracket issues? Anything else?

Thanks in advance for your help.

EDIT: I'll be running a single ring up front.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

Akita man said:


> DavyRay
> Do me a favor an let me know the spacing between the chain stays on that frame. Where the widest part of the rear tire will likely reside. My guess is 90mm or so. I found a 29er frame with 80mm and wonder how close it is to the Krampus .


The narrowest place between the chain stays is right where the stays are welded to the arch. The width there is 90mm. That is a conservative, weld-to-weld distance. That point is 340mm from the axle centerline, assuming the rear axle is all the way forward in the dropouts. Half of 622 is 311, so the 90mm wide point is 29mm outside the bead seat on the rim. The chain stays are parallel for about 110mm or so from the weld point rearward. The chain stays flare out after that.


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## Akita man (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks for that measurement!


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## backalleybikes (Jan 25, 2013)

I referenced the instructions from While Out Riding before attempting the tubeless setup. I tried to make it happen without the filleted tube and just a bunch of Stan's tape, but no luck.

The setup that worked for me was Surly rim strip, three courses of Stan's tape (two side by side and one down the middle), and the filleted 24" tube. Works great! I weigh 170lbs and I ran this on my Fox fork on the front of my Niner Jet at 9psi without issue.

Be warned, while the RH/Knard will clear the brake bridge of the Fox fork, it will NOT clear the crown if the fork fully bottoms out. I never bottom my fork out, but I added 5psi for good measure. 

Stoked to finish building the rest of the bike tomorrow!


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## fleanutz (Jan 29, 2004)

Ordered all stuff from Treefort also. Quite exciting...


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

*Headsets*

For the headset, Surly says that ZS44 top is okay, and recommends EC44 bottom. If you use the stock fork, it is 1 1/8" straight. I think with that bottom, I have to also get a conversion race to go from the 1.5" to 1.125" diameter. I have ordered the 52/30 conversion race to make this work. I hope that is right.

Why not just use ZS44 on the bottom as well? The only difference would be the few mm of spacing, 12mm vs 4mm bottom stack height. That would put the head tube 8mm lower (closer to the fork).

Thoughts?

I would not be thinking about this, but I have the complete ZS headset, and am waiting on the EC bottom to be delivered.


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

DavyRay....I got mine too! An XL....built with 1x10 11/36 and an MRP 30t front....SLX brakes. Used Velocity P35 rims....looks good only a mm or so less tire volume. Am trying to find someone local to post pics,as I cant. About the Hset question...the bottom cup is where most of the load is-so bigger bearing=stonger. I have also tried the rim/tire on some other forks-it fis Karate Monkey,Vassago Odis, Origin 8 carbon. No shocks fit. some one try a Manitou...it will be close I think. We are trying every thing we can stick it in! No other frame comes close. Still no good ride-been single digets and ice/snow here.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

29buzz said:


> No shocks fit. some one try a Manitou...it will be close I think..


Actually, they do and it's not a Manitou.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

29buzz said:


> DavyRay....I got mine too! An XL....built with 1x10 11/36 and an MRP 30t front....SLX brakes. Used Velocity P35 rims....looks good only a mm or so less tire volume. Am trying to find someone local to post pics,as I cant. About the Hset question...the bottom cup is where most of the load is-so bigger bearing=stonger. I have also tried the rim/tire on some other forks-it fis Karate Monkey,Vassago Odis, Origin 8 carbon. No shocks fit. some one try a Manitou...it will be close I think. We are trying every thing we can stick it in! No other frame comes close. Still no good ride-been single digets and ice/snow here.


That sounds like a sweet setup, but interested why you used the P35 instead of the Rabbit Holes? I have a frame that should work, just need to get my hands on some tires!


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## Akita man (Nov 21, 2012)

bikeny said:


> That sounds like a sweet setup, but interested why you used the P35 instead of the Rabbit Holes? I have a frame that should work, just need to get my hands on some tires!


What frame do you have that will fit? I figure 80 MM between the chain stays at tire location will be the bare minimum. At that, I don't know what mud clearance will be like.

Here's a question for everyone...
Does tubeless promote different inflation profiles of a tire vs the same tire mounted with tubes installed? I imagine different tubes would impact this as well.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Akita man said:


> What frame do you have that will fit? I figure 80 MM between the chain stays at tire location will be the bare minimum. At that, I don't know what mud clearance will be like.
> 
> Here's a question for everyone...
> Does tubeless promote different inflation profiles of a tire vs the same tire mounted with tubes installed? I imagine different tubes would impact this as well.


People have definitely observed tubeless tiress becoming bigger at same psi (read at pump) than non tubeless.

For those who have trouble airing up their tires as tubeless, the fat bike folks are discovering that you can make life easier (especially for trail-side repairs) if you put layers of adhesive foam beneath the filet tube or tape.

here's my example http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/tubeless-fatbike-made-easy-826351.html


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Akita man said:


> What frame do you have that will fit? I figure 80 MM between the chain stays at tire location will be the bare minimum. At that, I don't know what mud clearance will be like.
> 
> Here's a question for everyone...
> Does tubeless promote different inflation profiles of a tire vs the same tire mounted with tubes installed? I imagine different tubes would impact this as well.


The frame is a Carver Ti that I bought off Ebay years ago. I actually managed to fit a Larry on a skinny rim in it last winter. I think I posted a picture of it earlier in this thread, but I'm not looking through 28 pages right no, sorry! It also has sliders so I can adjust chainstay length a bit it needed.

I believe that tires have a little more volume when set up tubeless, although I have no idea how much.


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

DavyRay said:


> For the headset, Surly says that ZS44 top is okay, and recommends EC44 bottom. If you use the stock fork, it is 1 1/8" straight. I think with that bottom, I have to also get a conversion race to go from the 1.5" to 1.125" diameter. I have ordered the 52/30 conversion race to make this work. I hope that is right.
> 
> Why not just use ZS44 on the bottom as well? The only difference would be the few mm of spacing, 12mm vs 4mm bottom stack height. That would put the head tube 8mm lower (closer to the fork).
> 
> ...


Just went through this headache myself. You can run either, though as you say, the EC44 is recommended by Surly (although I swear this wasn't on their website earlier, when I placed an order through lbs for headset). But yes, you need the 1.5 - 1.125 conversion race - so looks like you're good to go.


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

Yes Mendon....but tecnically a strut-LOL. 
Why P35? I had a built set at hand-and Rabbit Holes are $$$. My shop tries to do affordable high-end,if that makes sense. Also P35's save over 100g and come in colors! Tire profile is real nice too-a bit more round. I will try tubeless in the warm weather-those tubes are heavy-but I run my reg. 29 tubes with an oz of Stan's juice-I will try that as well. Just want to be gentle on the tires-the $$ on the 120tpi is a bit scary in our terrain-tire sidewalls get toasted alot here-I mean cut through. Also a 2.4 X-King rear/Knard front would be a good race set-up too-and work well on P35's. I hope to get photos up-it looks awesome with the golden woven Jagwire housing and soon brake hose!


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## tswg (Aug 30, 2007)

Mendon, are those some of your custom clamps or is that a stock lefty?


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

tswg said:


> Mendon, are those some of your custom clamps or is that a stock lefty?


Well, it's a moveable clamp Lefty like my FatLeftys, but it's a stock Project 321 clamp set for them, so no offset compensation.

Tire clearance was pretty tight. but cleared when built to "conventional" dish. I found during hard compressions I'd get a little rub, so I dished the wheel over a touch more, then simply re-centered the wheel by floating it around in the clamps, a little tweak I know about from the Fat versions, but worked great with this situation too.

I told Jake at P321 to consider making some more as they'd stopped due to drop in demand, (he does have a few in stock still). I'm guessing this little discovery will lead to a few more folks bugging him about them now, than in the last year or three. :thumbsup:


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

Eddiecycle said:


> Nice JJ! Are you running the 156 or the 168 q-factor cranks? How's the clearance?


I used the 168, about 10mm between arms and frame. Will make pictures later on.


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

DavyRay said:


> For the headset, Surly says that ZS44 top is okay, and recommends EC44 bottom. If you use the stock fork, it is 1 1/8" straight. I think with that bottom, I have to also get a conversion race to go from the 1.5" to 1.125" diameter. I have ordered the 52/30 conversion race to make this work. I hope that is right.
> 
> Why not just use ZS44 on the bottom as well? The only difference would be the few mm of spacing, 12mm vs 4mm bottom stack height. That would put the head tube 8mm lower (closer to the fork).
> 
> ...


I used the ZS upper and lower. Not sure if you will feel the difference...


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Actually, they do and it's not a Manitou.


That is a very cool setup!!


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

JJT said:


> I used the ZS upper and lower. Not sure if you will feel the difference...


I really like your bike. Love the handlebars. Tell me about the rear wheel.


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## backalleybikes (Jan 25, 2013)

Krampus Komplete: Krampus Komplete « Back Alley Bikes


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## dewey haftu (Apr 7, 2007)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Actually, they do and it's not a Manitou.


That is one of the most hippy looking bikes I have ever seen. Love it.:thumbsup:


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Moar pictures of your Krampi, people!


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## nalman (Oct 15, 2009)

*Krampus fork width*

Could someone please measure the Krampus fork width?

I would like to try the fork with a Larry on a 80mm rim. Larry measures 96mm.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

nalman said:


> Could someone please measure the Krampus fork width?
> 
> I would like to try the fork with a Larry on a 80mm rim. Larry measures 96mm.


My fork is 92mm at the narrowest point, which is about 13" from the axle center.


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

DavyRay said:


> I really like your bike. Love the handlebars. Tell me about the rear wheel.


That rear weel is cool huh  The first time I looked at the picture I had to look another time to see what it is!










Here some more pics.

Surly Krampus - a set on Flickr


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

Another fork works! Niner carbon fits. Tighter than others we have tried-but with a well dished wheel has about 16mm on each side. This is 120tpi Knard on Velocity P35 at 12psi. Still need a Manitou to check foe a shock fit-they have the most clearance. Also-get a GOOD tire gauge-I can feel the differance a lb or two of PSI makes-just by squeezing them.

Bz


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## backalleybikes (Jan 25, 2013)

*'Nother Krampus pic*


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Nice one Buzz. I thought it would fit.... 16mm is a decent clearance :thumbsup:


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

JJT said:


> Here some more pics.


Quite the man cave you got there. 

Question, what's the black one with more curves than a plate of pasta, hanging on the wall?


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## backalleybikes (Jan 25, 2013)

29buzz said:


> DavyRay....I got mine too! An XL....built with 1x10 11/36 and an MRP 30t front....SLX brakes. Used Velocity P35 rims....looks good only a mm or so less tire volume. Am trying to find someone local to post pics,as I cant. About the Hset question...the bottom cup is where most of the load is-so bigger bearing=stonger. I have also tried the rim/tire on some other forks-it fis Karate Monkey,Vassago Odis, Origin 8 carbon. No shocks fit. some one try a Manitou...it will be close I think. We are trying every thing we can stick it in! No other frame comes close. Still no good ride-been single digets and ice/snow here.


Knard tire on a Rabbit Hole rim fits in a Fox:

Kniner Kramp9 RDO « Back Alley Bikes


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

^^^ at least it fits, not as if we are praying for a mainstream fork manufacturer to make a fork to fit a Bud


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

The Fox is just a semi-fit. At highspeed turns and even bumps the deflection of the tire/rim-evn the flex if the QR will cause a rub-maybe even enough to cause an endo in technical rocks. Also and a bit of mud and a stick,twig,small rock can wedge in and cause the wheel to lock up. So will not work here. Some say shave it. I am retro-I like them unshaved and wide!


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## nalman (Oct 15, 2009)

DavyRay said:


> My fork is 92mm at the narrowest point, which is about 13" from the axle center.


Thank you. 

Too narrow for a Larry then. :nono:


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Thats a bit extreme, neither a rock, stick or deflection is going to lock that wheel up any more than one with 25mm clearance. 

Half the fat bikers here have the rubber hairs of their tyres tickling their frames.... especially the bud/lou owners.

Thats a decent fit i reckon, most you'll see is a bit of paint loss after prolonged use.


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## backalleybikes (Jan 25, 2013)

With all the air taken out of the fork, the fork crown does buzz the tire knobs, but other than that, there's plenty of clearance. I added 5psi and dialed up the low speed compression just for good measure, the took it out for a hard ride two days ago and didn't hear a single buzz. Tire/fork combo is confidence inspiring!

Oh, and sorry for the ginormous pic, I'm computer dumb.

J


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

backalleybikes said:


> With all the air taken out of the fork, the fork crown does buzz the tire knobs
> 
> J


How does the fork air affect the tyre ? The fork bridge stays the same distance regardless ?


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## backalleybikes (Jan 25, 2013)

ozzybmx said:


> How does the fork air affect the tyre ? The fork bridge stays the same distance regardless ?


You're right, the distance between the tire and the bridge remains constant. When the fork bottoms out the tire rubs the back side of the crown (where the steer tube and stanchions are pressed in).

Kniner 048 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

ozzybmx said:


> Thats a bit extreme, neither a rock, stick or deflection is going to lock that wheel up any more than one with 25mm clearance.
> 
> Half the fat bikers here have the rubber hairs of their tyres tickling their frames.... especially the bud/lou owners.
> 
> Thats a decent fit i reckon, most you'll see is a bit of paint loss after prolonged use.


the concern is that the bottom of the fork crown will lock it up. You only bottom your fork out when you're going really fast and hit something hard, which is a bad time to lock up your front wheel.

I would only trust it on mild terrain, but even then maybe not, as I go extra fast on mild terrain.


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## backalleybikes (Jan 25, 2013)

PretendGentleman said:


> the concern is that the bottom of the fork crown will lock it up. You only bottom your fork out when you're going really fast and hit something hard, which is a bad time to lock up your front wheel.
> 
> I would only trust it on mild terrain, but even then maybe not, as I go extra fast on mild terrain.


This is a real concern, but I have decided it's a risk I'm willing to take. So far, so good.

As far as recommendations for what other folks should try? As always, one should always rely on their own good judgement and not follow the lead of crackpots on the internet!


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## jfkbike2 (Feb 8, 2005)

*Fits my DeSalvo fat bike*

Fits my DeSalvo just fine, really like the way they roll and have plenty of float for our sandy trails. Still playing around with tire pressure but ended ride with 15/17 psi. Might still drop a pound or two.


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## JJT (Dec 24, 2003)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Quite the man cave you got there.
> 
> Question, what's the black one with more curves than a plate of pasta, hanging on the wall?


You mean the grey one? Trek Sawyer.

I love my cave


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## jncarpenter (Dec 20, 2003)

backalleybikes said:


> You're right, the distance between the tire and the bridge remains constant. When the fork bottoms out the tire rubs the back side of the crown (where the steer tube and stanchions are pressed in).
> 
> Kniner 048 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


Looks like it barely makes enough contact to make a noise, much less slow the wheel in any way. :thumbsup:


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

backalleybikes said:


> You're right, the distance between the tire and the bridge remains constant. When the fork bottoms out the tire rubs the back side of the crown (where the steer tube and stanchions are pressed in).
> 
> Kniner 048 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


Ah, i get you now :thumbsup:

I dont have a bike with suspension but when i did i thought the fork stopped short of compressing the whole way down keeping the bridge and crown at a similar spacing to the tyre.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

If someone has a Knard/Rabbit Hole and a Reba I'd be interested to know if that combo works at all.


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## fstbusa (Jan 28, 2013)

I got to demo one of these bikes this weekend and it was pretty fun riding over snow piles. Definitely lots of flotation


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

*It has arrived*

Need to lace the RH's and build up the green thingy.


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## ironman13 (Aug 3, 2009)

i love this coleccion.......................


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

What tire and wheel is on the back of your black Jones?


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

> Need to lace the RH's and build up the green thingy.


Can you get a weight on the tires? Especially if you got the 120tpi.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

fixgeardan said:


> What tire and wheel is on the back of your black Jones?


I was going to ask the same question. Looks like a Dissent on maybe an extra wide rim.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

bluestatevirgin said:


> I was going to ask the same question. Looks like a Dissent on maybe an extra wide rim.


Yep. The rim is a P35.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

bluestatevirgin said:


> Can you get a weight on the tires? Especially if you got the 120tpi.


980 and 924


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Tripower said:


> 980 and 924


That's 120tpi, right? I ask for clarification because someone was posting over in the 29er components forum that she/he weighed two tires and both were 700 grams, which seems impossible.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

bluestatevirgin said:


> That's 120tpi, right? I ask for clarification because someone was posting over in the 29er components forum that she/he weighed two tires and both were 700 grams, which seems impossible.


Yep. 120tpi.


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## backalleybikes (Jan 25, 2013)

bluestatevirgin said:


> Can you get a weight on the tires? Especially if you got the 120tpi.


I weighed one of my tires and one of my tubes.

120tpi tire = 929g

29x3 Surly tube = 398g!!!

Go tubeless! I've got three good rides in, and so far, so good.


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

I got a weight of 891 for a 120tpi Knard and a fat 403g for a tube(sorry,just weighed one) I think tubless-with about twice as much goo may work on the P35-just no super low pressure. Maybe the Cafe Latte stuff that foams may be good for the bigger void in the Knards?

Bz


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Have any of you running the Knard on a P35 put it on dirt yet? I'm really interested to hear how this combination works.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

29buzz said:


> I got a weight of 891 for a 120tpi Knard and a fat 403g for a tube(sorry,just weighed one) I think tubless-with about twice as much goo may work on the P35-just no super low pressure. Maybe the Cafe Latte stuff that foams may be good for the bigger void in the Knards?
> 
> Bz


I'm running mine tubeless, split tube style. RH and Knard 120's, a 20x2.1 pv tube, and a normal sized splash of Stans.

Both set up quick and easy, both have been stable since then. Running about 10 psi without issue.


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

Thats good news,Mendon....I always add mucho Stan's here on any tire.Good to know less will do. 
Anyone try the fit on a Manitou yet? They have the most clearance-we have none in the shop now.
On the P35 the Knard is a few mm smaller/shorter...may also help fit a fork.
Have not got any dirt time on the P35 combo-in fact have about 2mi total on the new Krampus(well,I test rode for hours last summer) 1st we had a foot of snow and teens-yes cold weather folks laugh-but we have steep slick trails. Now warm and rain-and to beat all,I have a back problem and blew it out again yesterday......grrrrrrrh. Nothing worse than a new bike and not being able to get dirty! I will get my time soon enough. 
The Krampus frame with a 120/140mm fork and P35's with Conti TrailKing 2.4's will be a crazy cool hardtail freeride machine-with mud clearance! I think this frame has so much versitility!
Bz


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> I'm running mine tubeless, split tube style. RH and Knard 120's, a 20x2.1 pv tube, and a normal sized splash of Stans.
> 
> Both set up quick and easy, both have been stable since then. Running about 10 psi without issue.


Would you suggest going tubeless over just running tubes at first?


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Would you suggest going tubeless over just running tubes at first?


Up to the individual.

If you currently use some manner of tubeless, know and understand the set up and it's particular potential pitfalls, I wouldn't blink before going this way.

If you're tubeless newb, and unsure, well, that's a call you need to make for yourself.

I find no issues with it due to it being a Krampus set up, if that's the question....


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I must do tubeless then  



Does anyone know what size Paul chain keeper fits the Krampus? 28.6 or 31.8?


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## tswg (Aug 30, 2007)

The Surly site says 31.8 mm clamp diameter for front derailleurs.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Proud to announce that I've got a Krampus frameset and the remaining parts I need for the build on order! Should be here by this weekend and I'll begin to build it up as I get time


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Proud to announce that I've got a Krampus frameset and the remaining parts I need for the build on order! Should be here by this weekend and I'll begin to build it up as I get time


Enjoy...:thumbsup:


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

My bike shop sent my frame out for delivery today and the wheels and tires. Cool. 
Oh, I'm doing tubeless for sure. No foam, no split tubes. Yes, this is not a setup you want if you plan to re-seat the bead trailside. Most of my trails are 5 miles back at the farthest point. For the longer ones, I carry a spare tube. 

I am using green sparkle tape for rim strips and stans tape on top of that. I have a stans roll some 80mm plus wide for fat bikes.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Proud to announce that I've got a Krampus frameset and the remaining parts I need for the build on order! Should be here by this weekend and I'll begin to build it up as I get time


Congratulations!!! How did you manage that? I pre-ordered and left my cc hanging out in the breeze for months. You just waltz in and get a frameset at the last minute.

I'd be jealous, but am building wheels this evening. I did get the right length spokes. That's a relief. My LBS (work town) charged me $1 over MSRP for a spoke wrench. I'm happy, though. Truing wheels always makes me happy.

My home town LBS did order Surly rim strips and inner tubes for me with my frameset. I do have the ingredients to make open source tubeless sealant. I guess I will just run the tubes at first. Experiment later.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Jumped through some hoops with the shop and Surly. I plan on running tubes at first, also, at least for a short while.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Frame, 120 tpi knards, rabbit hole rims are in! This thing is bad ass in person. The frame feels massive in the hands. Totally burly. The paint rocks! Tires are effing massive. 
Ordered last Wed night. Here this afternoon! Thanks Treefort bikes. 
Weights:
Frame 5lb 13oz
Fork. 2lb 8oz
Rim each 1lb 7oz
Tire 2lb 2oz
Tire 2lb 3oz


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

*Finished Build*

Title says it all. I have not had a chance to take it on the trails yet but the riding on the street is awesome.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Tripower said:


> Title says it all. I have not had a chance to take it on the trails yet but the riding on the street is awesome.


Nice. More pics please!

One question. What headset are you using?


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

thickfog: is that a medium frame?


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

Sweet bike Tripower !
What is the bb height ?


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

thickfog said:


> Nice. More pics please!
> 
> One question. What headset are you using?


Chris King Griplock InSet 1 Headset


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

Surfdog93 said:


> Sweet bike Tripower !
> What is the bb height ?


I will measure it later today.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Some of the test riders comment that the rear end of the Krampus had a noticeable amount of flex in it when riding hard. Can any of the Krampus owners comment on that once you've got some time on the bike?


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Curious to know what each of your builds weigh. I have a complete L on order, but I haven't seen any approx. weights.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

vikb said:


> Some of the test riders comment that the rear end of the Krampus had a noticeable amount of flex in it when riding hard. Can any of the Krampus owners comment on that once you've got some time on the bike?


I have little doubt that the wheels are flexy. Even my 36 spoke p-35s are flexy and I don't trust that the fat rabbit hole is enough to make up for 32 long spokes. But flexy can be ok, even fun, so long as its durable.

I think a 29x3 will be a home on a 170mm o.l.d. hub; maybe even some of this new-fangeled large diameter axles. Maybe by the time I've got the cash to buy a new bike, these three features will come together on a fat/29+.


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## backalleybikes (Jan 25, 2013)

*Krampus weight*



Bacons said:


> Curious to know what each of your builds weigh. I have a complete L on order, but I haven't seen any approx. weights.


Size small frame, tubeless setup, X9 bits, LX cranks, DMR hubs = 28lbs. on the nose!


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

dRjOn said:


> thickfog: is that a medium frame?


Yes


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

backalleybikes said:


> Size small frame, tubeless setup, X9 bits, LX cranks, DMR hubs = 28lbs. on the nose!


Wow. That is surprisingly light. I suspect the L complete will be around 30lbs. Time will tell...


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

Bacons said:


> Wow. That is surprisingly light. I suspect the L complete will be around 30lbs. Time will tell...


I think the completes are expected to have the steel-beaded tires, which will add almost 2 pounds alone.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Eddiecycle... if it were a fatbike tire, I'd agree. But I don't think the 27tpi will add a pound per end. Here's Surly's feedback on weight...


Surly said:


> THE KNARD (I stole this shot from Maurice at Dirt Rag because he probably won't sue us.) We've told you most of the pertinent details of the new 29x3.0 Surly Knard tire. It'll be about 820g for the 120tpi folding version and pretty close to that for the 27tpi. It's got blocks and whatnot for a tread pattern&#8230;


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

Bacons said:


> Eddiecycle... if it were a fatbike tire, I'd agree. But I don't think the 27tpi will add a pound per end. Here's Surly's feedback on weight...


Bikeradar's tires weighed out to 1150. Dunno if they had heavy prototypes, or if that's "pretty close" by Surly's reconing.

Surly Krampus Review - BikeRadar


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

XL with a Canecreek ST post,P35 rims and Surly tubes = 30lb 1oz. My rigids usually weigh about 29ish...I will take that weight! 
Wheel flex......I think B.S. a tire this size has a lot of deflection-that is what they felt. I rode the proto model on hardpack like a madman last summer and found nothing flexy-but I always ride 2.3 or bigger tires. I am 6'2" and 250lb,so I know flex! Some testers probably need the spoke tension higher-or didnt understand that a tire can deflect an rub,as can a QR lever.

Bz


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Eddiecycle said:


> Bikeradar's tires weighted out to 1150. Dunno if they had heavy prototypes, or if that's "pretty close" by Surly's reconing.
> 
> Surly Krampus Review - BikeRadar


Which leads to the next request. If anybody has weights on the 27tpi Knard, please chime in. Were I a betting man, I'd guess the lighter weights for that tire will be coming in around 1100grams.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Eddiecycle said:


> Bikeradar's tires weighed out to 1150. Dunno if they had heavy prototypes, or if that's "pretty close" by Surly's reconing.
> 
> Surly Krampus Review - BikeRadar


Mine were 963 grams in 120 tpi.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

Surfdog93 said:


> Sweet bike Tripower !
> What is the bb height ?


12.875
Mine is a large frame.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

Bacons said:


> Curious to know what each of your builds weigh. I have a complete L on order, but I haven't seen any approx. weights.


Large frame - 31.4 lbs


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## bubba13 (Nov 30, 2009)

29buzz said:


> XL with a Canecreek ST post,P35 rims and Surly tubes = 30lb 1oz. My rigids usually weigh about 29ish...I will take that weight!
> Wheel flex......I think B.S. a tire this size has a lot of deflection-that is what they felt. I rode the proto model on hardpack like a madman last summer and found nothing flexy-but I always ride 2.3 or bigger tires. I am 6'2" and 250lb,so I know flex! Some testers probably need the spoke tension higher-or didnt understand that a tire can deflect an rub,as can a QR lever.
> 
> Bz


I did a long test ride on a Krampus prototype and the back end did flex. When climbing steep sections standing the rear brake rotor would drag with the flex... (yes, the wheel skewer was tight)

The production yoke looks considerably more stout than the prototype bikes. I would doubt it is still an issue.


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## Surfdog93 (May 30, 2005)

Thanks !


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Krampus loves snow!


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

How well do the Knards shed the snow?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Bacons said:


> How well do the Knards shed the snow?


Pretty well. I was running about 10 psi on an inch of fluffy powder and with any speed they would shed snow very well. The rear tire throws a lot of snow on the yoke/bb area. I see that spot getting jam-packed full of mud and dirt through the summer. Traction is unbelievable (coming from 26x2.35 size tires)! The stability on ice/snow covered pavement is amazing. Rolls fast, grips well....I can't wait for summer.


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## DSTONGE (Jul 8, 2008)

*Will work today*

This configuration you speak of will work today on a Ti Mukluk (tried it) and possibly work on the regular Muks with the alternator drop outs. The wider 170 hub will really stiffen the RH up. Looking forward to building a set with the hope hubs for summer.



PretendGentleman said:


> I have little doubt that the wheels are flexy. Even my 36 spoke p-35s are flexy and I don't trust that the fat rabbit hole is enough to make up for 32 long spokes. But flexy can be ok, even fun, so long as its durable.
> 
> I think a 29x3 will be a home on a 170mm o.l.d. hub; maybe even some of this new-fangeled large diameter axles. Maybe by the time I've got the cash to buy a new bike, these three features will come together on a fat/29+.


----------



## ColoradoClark (Apr 5, 2011)

So...is anybody running a double up front? If so, what crankset and derailleur are you running? I'm not sure that a single would meet my needs for a Krampus (I live in Colorado and weigh 250 lbs - gotta love lotsa gears  ).


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

Does anybody have an actual measurment of the width of these tires? Just how durable do the side walls feel? would the 27tpi's be more durable?


----------



## tswg (Aug 30, 2007)

ColoradoClark said:


> So...is anybody running a double up front? If so, what crankset and derailleur are you running? I'm not sure that a single would meet my needs for a Krampus (I live in Colorado and weigh 250 lbs - gotta love lotsa gears  ).


i'm putting a double up front on mine. i'm going with the surly MWOD. I'll let you know how it goes once I get the parts in. SHould be early next week.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

fixgeardan said:


> Does anybody have an actual measurment of the width of these tires? Just how durable do the side walls feel? would the 27tpi's be more durable?


From Surly's Blog...

Here are some numbers that might help you decide if Knard or Rabbit Hole are right for you:

The Knard 3.0 tire on a Rabbit Hole 50mm rim will be 75.8mm/77.7mm (casing/tread) wide and will have a diameter or 779.4mm (at 19psi).

The Knard 3.0 tire on a Velocity P35 will be 72.6mm/76.7mm wide and have a diameter of 778.6mm.

A Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.4" tire will be 66.0mm/59.2mm wide and have a diameter of 752.2mm when mounted on a Rabbit Hole rim (at 35psi).

A Continental Trail King 2.4" tire will be 65.5mm/57.1mm wide and have a diameter of 759.5mm when mounted on a Rabbit Hole rim (at 35psi).

(The above numbers, as you may guess, will have some plus or minus to them when you mount up your own tires, because that's how the world works Ricky.)


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Krampus sizing:

So how are folks making their sizing decision? I would typically ride a medium frame at 5'8", but the ett on the medium is enormous!

My current gravity 29er has an ett of 570mm (17.5" size https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/gravity/images/gravity_29er_geo.gif)

if anything, this bike is longer than other bikes I've used. I never wheelie on climbs, but am much more likely to have to concentrate on keeping my weight back.

A medium krampus has a ett of whopping 609mm, which is more like an xl in the gravity 29ers.

A small karmpus has an ett of 585, which is still plenty long, allowing for a ~70mm stem and giving me a similar reach.
(Krampus | Bikes | Surly Bikes)

and there are a few small frames still at qbp! so I'm wondering, do i go for a small based on ett or wait for a medium based on the word, "medium"


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> The rear tire throws a lot of snow on the yoke/bb area. I see that spot getting jam-packed full of mud and dirt through the summer.


From Joe Cruz's Blog...


----------



## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

^^^That's some gnarly mud!



PretendGentleman said:


> Krampus sizing:
> 
> So how are folks making their sizing decision? I would typically ride a medium frame at 5'8", but the ett on the medium is enormous!
> 
> ...


I compared frame sizes and geometries very close to what I have ridden in the past. I usually ride XL frames (21" and 22") and still have a lot of seatpost sticking out. My L Krampus with a 90mm stem has a 1/2" LONGER ETT than my XL 1x1 with a 100mm (105?) stem. I was worried about getting a size smaller frame since I am 6'3" with a 34" inseam and have ridden strictly XL frames, but I'm so glad I did not get an XL. I would compare the current frames you ride with the Krampus and see what looks best. It's always easier to make a smaller frame feel bigger than a bigger frame feel smaller! If, for some reason, I needed more reach out of my Krampus I could easily throw a spare 100mm stem on it.


----------



## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

Surly seems to makr massive bikes. Im 6'3" and ride a 60cm disc trucker that is too long yet i just couldnt bring myself to get a 58.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

cpfitness said:


> Surly seems to makr massive bikes. Im 6'3" and ride a 60cm disc trucker that is too long yet i just couldnt bring myself to get a 58.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


I've looked into some Surly road bikes and even though I ride 60/61cm frames, I'd be back on a 58cm with them.


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

I ride a 60 LHT. I could have fit a L Krampus-but I got to ride both,and the L's headtube was too short. I 1st set up my XL with a bar with less sweep than I tested-and a shorter stem-an 80mm. Went back to 90mm. My previous fit had the same bar and and seatpost and a 110mm stem and a 24.5 toptube(Vassago Jabberwocky) I moved the saddle a bit forward on the rails(was almost maxed rearward) It feels almost the same now. Remember the frame is slack HT and made to run a shorter stem and wide bar. It has a freeride fit I guess instead of XC. The XL i tested felt so much better than the L that it was no question- I changed my pre-order because on paper the L was the one-but on dirt the XL all the way.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

29buzz said:


> I ride a 60 LHT. I could have fit a L Krampus-but I got to ride both,and the L's headtube was too short. I 1st set up my XL with a bar with less sweep than I tested-and a shorter stem-an 80mm. Went back to 90mm. My previous fit had the same bar and and seatpost and a 110mm stem and a 24.5 toptube(Vassago Jabberwocky) I moved the saddle a bit forward on the rails(was almost maxed rearward) It feels almost the same now. Remember the frame is slack HT and made to run a shorter stem and wide bar. It has a freeride fit I guess instead of XC. The XL i tested felt so much better than the L that it was no question- I changed my pre-order because on paper the L was the one-but on dirt the XL all the way.


It's interesting that you have an almost oppposite opinion about sizing relative to the posters above you. How is the XL for steep climbs? do you find that your weight is far forward relative to a cx bike?

I compared the krampus and gravity geometries beyond ett; the angles are the same, similar cs length, etc. Not sure how to in my thinking about angles and geometry to accommodate the bent seat tube of the krampus, but with a non-set back thomson, it's as if the bend doesn't exist, more or less.

I'm leaning towards the small, but wondering about toe overlap with such a big wheel.

Please keep the sizing comments coming, as I might bite the bullet if qbp hasn't sold out the small frame by early this week when our next order goes in. I would especially like to hear from folks riding a medium or small kramus and what they rode pre-krampus and how tall they are, etc. Thanks!


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## jfkbike2 (Feb 8, 2005)

Mine were north of 1000 grams each and they were the 120 tpi version.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

jfkbike2 said:


> Mine were north of 1000 grams each and they were the 120 tpi version.


120tpi 4" fat bike tires are coming in around 1250g for comparison [45 North Husker Du's]


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

1st...I do not mean to step on toes about fit-this is a whole new beast. Look at the Surly website-and blog about the Krampus and its fit. The slack head angle and a big sweep bar-like the stock build....make it fit just like a regular frame. The long chainstay will keep the rear sticky up the steeps. I found I could weight the front in turns-a lot more than a regular bike as well-the tire/head angle work very well together. I think as the next few months-and more are avalible and ridden hard-we will find that Surly has it spot on forTHEIR take on the bike is. Now the rest of US-all over the world-different trails and terrain-may find other set-ups are the rad. This is the awesome part-we just have to ride the bejezzus out of our Krampus everywhere we can and keep comparing notes!
Also-email the Surly boys-they will help you out.
And trust me-the 1st time you get a big high speed turn under that fatty-it will be love!
Bz


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I agree about keeping the notes coming. I'd like to hear from others about their initial thoughts and opinions on the Krampus. I also want to see some more pictures


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I agree about keeping the notes coming. I'd like to hear from others about their initial thoughts and opinions on the Krampus. I also want to see some more pictures


I have not had a chance to ride mine since I built it up last Monday. I've had family visiting and couldn't get out. I finally was able to get in 25 miles of trail riding yesterday. The Knards, IMHO, soak up the chunk better than the Nates and BFL's I have on my Pugsley and Jones.

The Krampus handles exceptional well on the trails and I did not notice any flex from the rear.

I will post additional impressions once I have more saddle time.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Tripower said:


> I have not had a chance to ride mine since I built it up last Monday. I've had family visiting and couldn't get out. I finally was able to get in 25 miles of trail riding yesterday. The Knards, IMHO, soak up the chunk better than the Nates and BFL's I have on my Pugsley and Jones.
> 
> The Krampus handles exceptional well on the trails and I did not notice any flex from the rear.
> 
> I will post additional impressions once I have more saddle time.


Can you tell me a bit about what size you're riding and what size bike you typically ride, i.e., on a pugsley.

If you're riding the "same size" between the two bikes i.e., both are mediums, then the krampus should have a much longer ett. How do you feel about the krampus geometry in the size you got?


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

PretendGentleman said:


> Can you tell me a bit about what size you're riding and what size bike you typically ride, i.e., on a pugsley.
> 
> If you're riding the "same size" between the two bikes i.e., both are mediums, then the krampus should have a much longer ett. How do you feel about the krampus geometry in the size you got?


My Pugsley is a 20" and the Krampus is a large. The Pugsley and the Krampus fit me perfectly. I am 6' with 34" inseam.

So far, the Krampus geometry is fantastic.


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

Here's mine. I've only ridden it on the road so far, as we're deep into mud season here. I could do some snow riding but by the time I got everything put together it was too slushy out.

It's set up as a 1x10 11-36 with XT shifter and derailleur, X.0 crankset and a 28T MRP Bling Ring. No chain guide yet. I have a MRP 1x available but it looks like it might not work with the 28T ring. I thought I'd see if it works without it. Thoughts?

Rest of the build:

Hubs: DT 350 rear, Hope front
Seatpost: Salsa, not sure which one.
Saddle: WTB Devo
Brakes: an older XTR model, IS mount. I had a hard time getting these to fit right, but I think it's going to work out. 180mm rotors.
Pedals: XT
Handlebar: Easton Havoc 750mm
Stem: 60mm Syntace
Headset: Chris King
Grips: some beat up ODI SS grips, to be replaced with ESI

Haven't weighed it but it seems light for what it is. I was surprised at how quick it felt on the road. I chose the 28 x 11-36 setup because this is slated to be my high altitude singletrack and jeep road bike, but I really wanted to go 1x10. Hopefully this will give me enough range.


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## 1x1clyde (Oct 5, 2005)

Heres mine.

























]








Been on it almost everyday for week.

Size large. Been running 16 psi here in socal without to much trouble.

Been going up whatever is in the way and going down everything I take my FS 29er down..it is scary how much speed this beast carries and once it is up to speed on flow and uphill it feels no different then any other rig I have owned....except its off camber grip is ridiculous lol!

26 1/2 lbs with the I9/Arch EX hoops, almost 28 lbs with the X Fusion dropper post.

1x10 XTR/XO drivetrain 34 front- 11-36 XX rear cassette, XTR brakes, Whiskey Handlebar, King Headset, Thomson Masterpiece post/X Fusion HiLo post and 60mm thomson stem.

I was not expecting to like this bike this much.....:thumbsup:

Anyone run "regular" 29 tubes in a rim set up like this? I am currently using the recommended Surly 29 tube.

Thanks!


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

sanjuanswan said:


> View attachment 768127
> 
> 
> No chain guide yet. I have a MRP 1x available but it looks like it might not work with the 28T ring. I thought I'd see if it works without it. Thoughts?


I've been running the bling ring on my Jones with no chain guide for many months. No chain drops. But I use a short cage der. with the clutch system, so not a lot a flopping around. Plus, my local trails don't put me in situations where the bike is rattling and bouncing around underneath me a ton. So I don't recommend what I'm doing. Just saying it's been working for me. I've had people recommend I use some tape on the frame in bb area just in case.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

bluestatevirgin said:


> I've been running the bling ring on my Jones with no chain guide for many months. No chain drops. But I use a short cage der. with the clutch system, so not a lot a flopping around. Plus, my local trails don't put me in situations where the bike is rattling and bouncing around underneath me a ton. So I don't recommend what I'm doing. Just saying it's been working for me. I've had people recommend I use some tape on the frame in bb area just in case.


The lizard skin headset protectors work very well on the bb shell to protect chain drop. I've also cut portions of the jumbo chainstay protectors. These can be easier than trying to get tape on the bb shell.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

1x1clyde said:


> Anyone run "regular" 29 tubes in a rim set up like this? I am currently using the recommended Surly 29 tube.
> 
> Thanks!


Why the heck are you running *TUBES* with Arch EX rims??? Sorry maybe I'm not understanding something here. Stans didn't create Bead Socket Technology rims to run over-weight rubber doohickies that can pop when pressure is run too low.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

sanjuanswan said:


> Here's mine. I've only ridden it on the road so far, as we're deep into mud season here. I could do some snow riding but by the time I got everything put together it was too slushy out.


Dude! Is that white stuff in the background snow? I'd be riding the piss out of that thing before the temps in the morning hit 32! Just saying..


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## bikeuphill9 (Apr 23, 2006)

For all of you who have ridden the Krampus and Karate Monkey, which has been your preference. I am planning on building up a second 29er as a do it all bike. I will commute, train on singletrack, do long gravel grinders, and follow stupid DH guys down rooty/rocky trails on this bike. 

My plan is either a Krampus with 120mm fork and normal wheels or a Karate Monkey with a 100mm fork. 

Thanks for you help. Any suggestion or comments are more than welcome at this point.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

GSJ1973 said:


> Why the heck are you running *TUBES* with Arch EX rims??? Sorry maybe I'm not understanding something here. Stans didn't create Bead Socket Technology rims to run over-weight rubber doohickies that can pop when pressure is run too low.


Yeah, ditch the tubes.

Btw, any more pics where we can see the tire bulge amount? I'm interested in running arch or p35s someday.


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## cjkyhl (Nov 5, 2012)

Encountered my first Krampus on the trail today today. A couple inches of fresh snow. I asked him, '"How is the Krampus?" He replied, "It ain't no fatbike!" Both he and his friend were pretty loose in the snow. My friend (Necromancer) and I (Beargrease) were doing just fine. I still want one, but maybe it's not the all-in-one I was hoping for. I say again...I still want one. That is a beautiful frame and the upcoming Surly build is the best excuse I've seen to replace my 1989 Panasonic MC-7500 mountain bike.


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## leugene (Jun 20, 2008)

1x1clyde, what's width/height of Knarly mounted on ArchEX, please?


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

GSJ1973 said:


> Dude! Is that white stuff in the background snow? I'd be riding the piss out of that thing before the temps in the morning hit 32! Just saying..


I didn't finish building it until late yesterday. I'll definitely hit some snow in the morning later this week.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

1x1clyde said:


> Anyone run "regular" 29 tubes in a rim set up like this? I am currently using the recommended Surly 29 tube.
> Thanks!


I haven't see the Knard tires or 29x3" tubes in person, but I got to believe regular 29er tubes would work. I've heard of people regularly running regular 26er tubes in 26x4" fat tires.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

renegade44 said:


> I haven't see the Knard tires or 29x3" tubes in person, but I got to believe regular 29er tubes would work. I've heard of people regularly running regular 26er tubes in 26x4" fat tires.


True, but most of us run downhill 26 tubes in the fat bikes. Just find a decently thick 29er tube, not a superlight tube.


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## 1x1clyde (Oct 5, 2005)

GSJ1973 said:


> Why the heck are you running *TUBES* with Arch EX rims??? Sorry maybe I'm not understanding something here. Stans didn't create Bead Socket Technology rims to run over-weight rubber doohickies that can pop when pressure is run too low.


Honestly I am a bit scared of rolling this steel belted beast of a tire off even with the Stans Bead Socket Technology...it would be painful lol!

I thought at least regular 29 tubes should hold up fine in regards to the Surly tube.
Plus, I'd feel safer running this tire tubeless on a Flow EX rim, I just had these wheels already so I went for it!

The 21mm ID from the Arch EX to the 25.5mm ID with the Flow EX should be a better grip


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## 1x1clyde (Oct 5, 2005)

leugene said:


> 1x1clyde, what's width/height of Knarly mounted on ArchEX, please?


The width- from the casing, not the side knobs- is 69mm and the height is 66mm.


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## Normbilt (Jan 17, 2004)

The Finish of The Build


The First Ride The Next Morning
Getting Started










THIS BIKE KICKS ASS


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## Go Kart Motzart (Jan 2, 2004)

cjkyhl said:


> Encountered my first Krampus on the trail today today. A couple inches of fresh snow. I asked him, '"How is the Krampus?" He replied, "It ain't no fatbike!" Both he and his friend were pretty loose in the snow. My friend (Necromancer) and I (Beargrease) were doing just fine. I still want one, but maybe it's not the all-in-one I was hoping for. I say again...I still want one. That is a beautiful frame and the upcoming Surly build is the best excuse I've seen to replace my 1989 Panasonic MC-7500 mountain bike.


Can't speak for others but I never thought for a minute this would make a good snow bike. I see it as an fun bike.


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## j.les (Jun 8, 2008)

Normbilt said:


> THIS BIKE KICKS ASS


Love the x-mas theme!


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

1x1clyde said:


> Heres mine.
> 
> 1x10 XTR/XO drivetrain 34 front- 11-36 XX rear cassette, XTR brakes, Whiskey Handlebar, King Headset, Thomson Masterpiece post/X Fusion HiLo post and 60mm thomson stem.
> 
> I was not expecting to like this bike this much.....:thumbsup:


Please let us know how that 27.2 dropper post works out, durability wise. Seems like a natural for the Krampus.


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

just realized today as i looked down at my quickly balding tires(again), that i ride entirely too much to own one of these bikes. the thought of buying three sets of tires a year sounds very expensive.

when i had my puglsy i was that expense as i only rode it on the snow and the tire lasted three seasons. can't see that happening with the knard.


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

1x1clyde said:


> The width- from the casing, not the side knobs- is 69mm and the height is 66mm.


Would be curious if you would have measurements on a Hans Damph on the same rim. Reason I'm curious is that i believe I measured 69mm on a Enve AM rim. Do not fully recall as that was a week or two back.

(Correction - I measured the HD tire last night on the Enve AM rim and it measures 59.5 Wide.)


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Normbilt... can you describe your build, please? Thanks.


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## 1x1clyde (Oct 5, 2005)

sanjuanswan said:


> Please let us know how that 27.2 dropper post works out, durability wise. Seems like a natural for the Krampus.


I have had the dropper for over a year and had it on a few different bikes....been great for me!

Having the dropper on the Krampus raised some eyebrows until of course you go past the guys looking at the rocky downhill section :thumbsup:

Once I load the pix from yesterday to my computer wait and see the latest "addition" I did to this rig!:eekster:


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

*A little bit more of a review*

After some more time and additional tuning on the Krampus I'd like to give more of a review of my experience. I still only have ridden it in the snow (some light mud today) but it hooks up very well. Tire pressure seems to be key, as you'd expect, but it just wants to keep rolling even with low psi. The tires shed soupy mud very well just like snow. I am glad I went with a narrower bar than what Surly puts on the completes. The gearing I chose suits my local trails very well and since this is my first 1x10 setup I'm excited to get more time on it. I still can't wait for warm/dry weather here to see how it will really handle!

My initial build was planned to be very budget-friendly. The original plan was SLX hubs for reliability/rebuildability, BB7 brakes and a Sram X7 drivetrain with other parts being out of my parts bin. I bought the hubs and brakes long before I got the frameset. When I bought the frame I decided to get some nicer parts, but I just stayed with the hubs and brakes for now. Future upgrades include a Thomson seatpost, Hope hubs, hydraulic brakes and converting to tubeless once I get some holes in my tubes.

Main build specs:

Cane Creek headset
Truvativ Stylo crankset/34t Salsa chainring/Paul chain keeper/Shimano M530 trail pedals
X9 shifter/derailleur with PG-1050 11-36t cassette and PC-1051 chain
BB7 brakes/SLX centerlock rotors/Jagwire Pro cable kit/FR-5 levers
Truvativ Stylo stem/Salsa Moto 2 bar/Kalloy seatpost and Specialized saddle
120 tpi Knards with those very heavy Surly toobs

Some quick pics from tonight's ride around the backyard trails before it got dark.




























Need some hardpack to get rid of these tits!









Soupy mud/melting snow, some spinning on the uphill portions, but overall amazing traction vs. my 1x1


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## dbruning (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm 5'9" with a 31.5" inseam and my medium build using a 70mm stem and 720mm bars fits perfect compared to a medium KM I sold a few years ago because it felt too long and handled like a tank. Currently I'm playing around with the stem height but recently raced on it for an 1:15 with about 30mm of steerer tube above the stem and never thought twice about it FWIW.

Best fitted mtb I have ridden EVER! I have raced on SM Salsa El Mar, 18" 1x1, typically think a 17.5" bike is my 'perfect" fit. It was also super easy to setup ghetto tubeless with just the surly rim strip and a 24" tube


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## dbruning (Aug 11, 2006)

Please delete this post. I was trying to reply to an earlier post that someone had...


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## dbruning (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm 5'8" with a 31.5" inseam and I'm riding a Medium and it fits perfect with a 70mm stem and about 30mm of the steerer tube above the stem. I also tend to ride a 17.5" bike.

DAng it why are my replies to specific post ending up here?


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## dbruning (Aug 11, 2006)

Tripower said:


> Large frame - 31.4 lbs


28 lbs running tubeless for a Medium


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## dbruning (Aug 11, 2006)

Hands down the Krampus! I kept my 18" KM a few weeks and unloded it as it rode like a boat


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

I'm about to go for a small krampus, as the top tube measurements are very close to my 17.5" gravity. However, according to my measurements, I'm going to have just over 11" of seatpost exposed!!

I have a 400mm thomson, and there's no problem having the minimum insertion mark inside the frame, but it still seems like a ton of seatpost.

But the ett on the medium seems outrageously long.

I anticipate bending my thomson since its a wimpy 27.2, but hopefully it takes at least a year!


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Just finished the rear wheel build. Front is laced, but need to bring it to tension and true. Getting closer.

Did green nips, silver sapim spokes, hope evo2 ss rear and evo2 front hub.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

The weight of my Krampus (Large) came in at 31.5 lbs. Not surprised with that weight considering some of the parts that are on it. I'm thinking after I get a lighter seatpost and convert to tubeless I'll be right around 30 lbs.


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## 1x1clyde (Oct 5, 2005)

Well.....some more experiments and lo and behold a Krampus with 120mm's of tasty front suspension!

Fork will be spaced to 100mm once the CTD spacer arrives.

First pix are on the Arch EX rim:
























Next pix are on the Rabbit Hole Rim:

























I have done 3 solid rides on the Arch rim/Fox combo and it is a blast!! Talk about a runaway train feeling!

Rabbit Holes are laced to a Gold Hope Pro 2 hub in the front with 1/2 white spokes and 1/2 black spokes and alternating gold and green nipples
Rear hub is a good ole DT Swiss 350 hub with same spoke and nipple pattern.
Once it is at 100mm it should be real close to the AC measurement of the rigid fork and thus keep the uphill cornering back in control...it liked to wander with 120mm fork but it also gives it a 68 degree head angle!

No mods were done to the fork. I think its just the 15QR is a bit lower then the 9mm dropouts I tried to fit the wheel into!


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## pvbower (Apr 28, 2011)

How is the Krampus on sand?

Peter


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## A. Nony Moose (Aug 18, 2004)

1x1clyde said:


> Well.....some more experiments and lo and behold a Krampus with 120mm's of tasty front suspension!
> 
> Fork will be spaced to 100mm once the CTD spacer arrives.


have you checked the clearance to the top crown with the fork compressed/bottomed?


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## 1x1clyde (Oct 5, 2005)

A. Nony Moose said:


> have you checked the clearance to the top crown with the fork compressed/bottomed?


I just did.
At absolute compression, the rubber "sag" ring 2mm from the crown, the tire hits the crown. If I compress it that much I think the tire rubbing the crown will be the least of my worries

I've pointed it down some fairly rocky/ledgy trails here in socal as well as some fun bermy and g out action and its all good. The fork "bottoms" out for me about 20mm from the crown.

With the Rabbit Hole rims and about 16 psi now the bike has excellent manners. No more tire squirm or soft feel. It's cornering ability is now just like a regular mountain bike:thumbsup:


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## onlyontwo (Nov 21, 2006)

Must be nice TP!

Cheers,
-A


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## robothouse (Nov 26, 2008)

Hola folks!

Just a few words on my initial Krampus build...

Large Frame
ghetto tubeless w/ 26" split tube and the provided Surly rimstrip
12-13psi on the trails, down to 9psi in the snow
XT front / XTR rear hubs
XT brakes & cranks
Thompson 50mm stem & Elite post
Easton Havoc 750mm bars
ChrisKing InSet7 HS (for future upgrayedd ability) & BB
Setup SS as 32x20 (usually run 34x20 on my 29er)

Build weight: 27.5lbs

I'm ~175lbs and 32" inseam and my old SS was a 18" Kona Unit... the Krampus fits and rides like a dream!

I am definitely digging the slammed stem & wide bar combo (20mm steer spacer.) This bike's maiden voyage was SSAZ'13... a 45mi romp in the Tucson foothills and it performed awesomely. I'm almost thinking of keeping it SS this summer and tossing the Kona! Changing up the gear ratio was a smart thing due to the wheel size diff... The full rigid did get to me on the multiple waterbar section about 35mi into the ride... might have to investigate suspension options soon! The tubeless held fine, one 5psi burp on a particularly gnarly 3ft drop!

WAHOOOOOOIE!


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## 1x1clyde (Oct 5, 2005)

robothouse said:


> Hola folks!
> 
> Just a few words on my initial Krampus build...
> 
> ...


Nice!

I have been thinking SS soon......but having too much fun with the 1x10


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## 1x1clyde (Oct 5, 2005)

Last pix, I promise!

This is the build with the proper rims and I am digging the half white/half black spokes!
Tires feel much better on the wider rim, it really does rail...cannot wait to try the softer sidewall tires.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

1x1clyde said:


> Last pix, I promise!
> 
> This is the build with the proper rims and I am digging the half white/half black spokes!
> Tires feel much better on the wider rim, it really does rail...cannot wait to try the softer sidewall tires.
> ...


Last pic? Keep em coming please!


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## bb1mina (Feb 10, 2008)

Quick question for those who built their bikes from the frame up:
What chris king headset model did you use?


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## Per Martin (Apr 3, 2007)

Inset7 fits fine.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

Chris King Griplock InSet 1 Headset


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## robothouse (Nov 26, 2008)

I used a InSet 7 with the DEVO baseplate due to Surly's "recommendations" for an external lower cup... which was on their website for a week or so. But the InSet 1 should work fine too.

The plus side of the 7 is that if I wanted to eventually rock a modern suspension fork with a tapered steer, I could take advantage. Plus e'rryone oohs and ahhs at the huge-ass-ness of it all.


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## hdparrish (Jan 24, 2008)

Robothoooooooooooooouse!!!!!

(Sorry, big Futurama fan and couldn't resist.)


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

robothouse said:


> I used a InSet 7 with the DEVO baseplate due to Surly's "recommendations" for an external lower cup... which was on their website for a week or so. But the InSet 1 should work fine too.
> 
> The plus side of the 7 is that if I wanted to eventually rock a modern suspension fork with a tapered steer, I could take advantage. Plus e'rryone oohs and ahhs at the huge-ass-ness of it all.


I thought about using the 7 but decided my big ass makes everything on my bike look small .


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Just finished building my wheels. 
Rabbit Holes, silver Hope Pro 2 evos, green dt swiss nipples, Sapim double butted silver spokes, sparkly tape for rim strip, one layer of wide stans tape. This is a tubeless setup.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

*Coolness*



thickfog said:


> Just finished building my wheels.
> Rabbit Holes, silver Hope Pro 2 evos, green dt swiss nipples, Sapim double butted silver spokes, sparkly tape for rim strip, one layer of wide stans tape. This is a tubeless setup.
> 
> Where did you get the sparkly tape?


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Tripower said:


> thickfog said:
> 
> 
> > Just finished building my wheels.
> ...


----------



## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Tires packed up quickly with thicker mud as I was expecting, but they did surprisingly well on wet, slippery rocks and creek crossings. I had the tire pressure a little high for the conditions; slight spinning on some uphills, but I'm still amazed by the traction.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

1x1clyde said:


> Well.....some more experiments and lo and behold a Krampus with 120mm's of tasty front suspension!
> 
> Rabbit Hole Rim:
> 
> View attachment 769165


Well it looks like the tire fits with no problem. From the early diameter specs posted it must be shorter in production. I measured and originally it was not going to fit by quite a bit.


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## 1x1clyde (Oct 5, 2005)

thickfog said:


> Just finished building my wheels.
> Rabbit Holes, silver Hope Pro 2 evos, green dt swiss nipples, Sapim double butted silver spokes, sparkly tape for rim strip, one layer of wide stans tape. This is a tubeless setup.


I like! How is the tubeless holding? Running a bit more or less air?
The 120 TPI tires are on the way so I am thinking tubeless has to be tried
Looking forward to hearing your feedback on the setup!


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

1x1clyde said:


> I like! How is the tubeless holding? Running a bit more or less air?
> The 120 TPI tires are on the way so I am thinking tubeless has to be tried
> Looking forward to hearing your feedback on the setup!


This interesting, I thought that the fatter, fewer threads of the lower tpi tire were more suitable for tubeless. I thought this was due to greater abrasion resistance and stiffer sidewalls.

Is there something else going on?


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## dbruning (Aug 11, 2006)

XJaredX said:


> I was being sarcastic, I've my share of Surly and Salsa stuff. Although it just occurred to me that maybe the Surly/Salsa/QBP thing isn't common knowledge. But it certainly is known by Mikesee


And AllCity, Foundry Cycles, 45North, Civia, Problems Solvers


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Bike is not finished yet. We have tons of snow on the trails so I've been taking advantage of that for snow biking. 

Tubeless is fine so far holding air. I don't expect any issues on the trail, but this is Michigan. It's all buff, flowy, easy single track. Very few rocks or anything beyond a 3 foot drop. 

I got my uma 90s with holes and bfl set up tubeless successfully, so these are easy in comparison.

To me 120 tpi have been harder to get the sidewall leaks under control. Less rubber, more fabric. But these 120tpi knards are pretty darn solid with the rubber still.


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## dbruning (Aug 11, 2006)

*Yep another Krampus build...*

Have had my medium since the 17th of January and really enjoying the heck out of it!







In the shop







Ghetto tubeless using 24" tubes split, surly rim strip, Stans sauce. Been running them around 10psi with no issues!



























Racing on snowy mtb trails!

Just got dumped on here in Minneapolis and looking forward to trying er out in some real snow.

Setup:
Med Surly Krampus, Im 5'9" 31.5" inseam fits like a dream based upon upcoming stock build.
Pink Chris King hubs laced to Rabbitholes (680gm per rim), brass nips dbl butted spokes
Surly 120tpi Knards (700gm per tire) set up tubeless
Pink CK BB
Pink CK headset
Avid BB7s 180 front, 160rear Paul love levers
SLX 10spd 12-36 cassette
Sram x.9 rear der (new version) and shifter no chain keeper needed and no issues
Race Face Evolve handlebar (720mm), 70mm stem, cranks converted to single with 36T RF single
Jagwire cables and housing, etc
Crank Bro Candy 2
Weight approximately 28 lbs


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

If anyone has a Knard and a Reba at hand - I'd be curious if there is the clearance to run that combo like there appears to be with the Float 29.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

vikb said:


> If anyone has a Knard and a Reba at hand - I'd be curious if there is the clearance to run that combo like there appears to be with the Float 29.


Having test ridden a few bikes with a Reba fork and now seeing the Knard on a RH rim, I can tell you it won't work...


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## dbruning (Aug 11, 2006)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I must do tubeless then
> 
> Does anyone know what size Paul chain keeper fits the Krampus? 28.6 or 31.8?


I'm not using a chain keeper and so far no issues....I am using a SRAM x.9 type 2 rear fwiw


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## dbruning (Aug 11, 2006)

Tripower said:


> Yep. 120tpi.


out of 4 tires the weights were as follows: 930, 890, 700, 700 for 120tpi. Rabbitholes were as follows: 680, 680, 690, 700


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

Are you guys seriously getting Knards that weigh 700 grams? Mine were 947 and 939 (120 tpi). That's a pretty big weight range.


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## security58 (Jul 27, 2011)

Are the complete bikes for sale now.?
Where can I buy a knard tire? Thx


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

chunkylover53 said:


> Are you guys seriously getting Knards that weigh 700 grams? Mine were 947 and 939 (120 tpi). That's a pretty big weight range.


That's a pretty big tire. Small variations in the layup of the carcass could result in the variations you are seeing.

I was interested in tire-making, so recently watched some videos of tire manufacture. There is a surprising amount of hand labor in making tires. It's a wonder that they every get two just alike.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

DavyRay said:


> That's a pretty big tire. Small variations in the layup of the carcass could result in the variations you are seeing.
> 
> I was interested in tire-making, so recently watched some videos of tire manufacture. There is a surprising amount of hand labor in making tires. It's a wonder that they every get two just alike.


A 250 gram variation?


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

I just finished building my Krampus with rabbit holes and knards.

I laced the rabbit holes using a 3x cross-lace pattern. cross-lacing is where spokes from the right flange go to the holes on the left side of the rim. The idea is that the greater _bracing angle_ leads to greater lateral strength with a relatively small loss of vertical strength.

I researched this and read mostly negative reviews. Fly Bikes, a bmx company, produces rims specifically designed to be laced like this, with the rim orienting the nipples to face the oppposite flange.

With rabbit holes, there is barely a perceptible bend in the spoke as it comes out of the nipple. I used the hex head brass dt nipples, which were far better than any other nipple I've ever used. I didn't even touch a spoke wrench for the whole build. I started with a 5.5mm socket on a screwdriver handle to get each nipple started and then I came back with a corded electric drill to screw down each nipple until exactly no threads were showing. I used spokes measured for a non-cross-laced build and was totally, unquestioningly fine, but 1mm more spokes would have been a bit better. After the drill, I put the socket onto a small ratchet and finished tensioning and mild truing; from this point I only had to tighten drive-side spokes and disc-side in the front due to the spokes having a bit of tension when the threads were just covered.

Nothing finicky, easy to true using regular methods. the only thing confusing, especially when operating with a ratchet/drill from the tire side of the rim is that you have to remember that the nipple on the right goes to the left flange. with a spoke wrench you would constantly see this. I had no trouble keeping track and built the second wheel in less than an hour.

I hope this works out well and I have super strong wheels. I rode just around the parking lot, but its late and very wet out. I initially ran the one necessary spacer on the drive side with my bb and the chainline is too far out on the front, so I will next put the spacer to the non-ds.

dt hex head nipples make building high tension 29er wheels far far easier than in the past! worth every penny.

I"m 5'8" with around 31.5" inseam. I have almost 10.5" of seatpost showing, but the reach with a 100mm stem feels spot on for steep climbs. I'm riding a small based on ett, though in the past I typically rode mediums.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

bluestatevirgin said:


> A 250 gram variation?


I want these 700g tires. That's only 50 more than my racing ralph 2.4s!

Id say there's a layer or so missing! Maybe a misbuild/qc issue?

I just don't see how a normal 120tpi knard can hit 700g. It's a huge tire.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

PretendGentleman said:


> I just finished building my Krampus with rabbit holes and knards.
> 
> I laced the rabbit holes using a 3x cross-lace pattern. cross-lacing is where spokes from the right flange go to the holes on the left side of the rim. The idea is that the greater _bracing angle_ leads to greater lateral strength with a relatively small loss of vertical strength.
> 
> I researched this and read mostly negative reviews. Fly Bikes, a bmx company, produces rims specifically designed to be laced like this, with the rim orienting the nipples to face the oppposite flange.


I don't think this is what cross lacing means per typical bike speak. A 3x lace would mean each spoke crosses 3 spokes on its way to the rim. You just "crossed" over to the opposite drilling.

So what is the proper or best way to build these? I did not cross over. Was that a mistake or a preference? :banghead:


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

thickfog said:


> I want these 700g tires. That's only 50 more than my racing ralph 2.4s!
> 
> Id say there's a layer or so missing! Maybe a misbuild/qc issue?
> 
> I just don't see how a normal 120tpi knard can hit 700g. It's a huge tire.


No kidding. My 120 tpi came in at 862. I still find that completely amazing. I weighed my 1/3 worn Racing Ralph 2.25 SS and it was 661. Also, the Knard is tit city and I'm guessing it will loose a few grams once those are gone.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

thickfog said:


> I don't think this is what cross lacing means per typical bike speak. A 3x lace would mean each spoke crosses 3 spokes on its way to the rim. You just "crossed" over to the opposite drilling.
> 
> So what is the proper or best way to build these? I did not cross over. Was that a mistake or a preference? :banghead:


Im confused, so is he saying he radially laced both sides of the rim but just crossed thenspokes from one side to the other? I smell disaster coming.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## jfkbike2 (Feb 8, 2005)

I have now weighed 4 tires, 2 120 tpi and 2 27 tpi versions. The 120's were ~1080 - 1100 grams and the 27's were north of 1200 gr. I do not see how they could be 700 or 800 grams. does not make sense to me. Just seems like too much variation in the manufacturing process to be 300 grams difference per tire.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

thickfog said:


> I don't think this is what cross lacing means per typical bike speak. A 3x ("three cross") lace would mean each spoke crosses 3 spokes on its way to the rim. You just "crossed" over to the opposite drilling.


this would have been better stated as a question.


cpfitness said:


> Im confused, so is he saying he radially laced both sides of the rim but just crossed thenspokes from one side to the other? I smell disaster coming.


it might be your upper lip that you're smelling 

I'm not aware of an entirely agreed upon vocab for this, but 3 cross refers to the regular crossing with which you are familiar. cross-lacing refers to taking the spoke from left flange to right side of rim and vice versa. Offset lacing is another possibility, where the spokes all go to the same side of the rim.

Typically, you're always going to do 3 cross with a 32 spoke wheel, which is what I did, but I also laced the spokes cross-laced. I call it 3 cross, cross-lacing. I'll call the conventional wheel a regular 3 cross to be clear.

There are a lot of urban legends about cross-lacing, maybe some are true. Shimano used to make some road wheels that were cross laced. BMW makes some respected motorcycle wheels that are cross-laced. both of these example are said by some to be finicky, even phantasmagorical.

The typical "myth" is that cross-laced wheels are amazing, but they are finnicky to true and build. People talk about them getting a wobble and then applying regular truing techniques and the wobble mysteriously moves around, never getting under control until you detension the wheel and slowly and evenly bring it back to tension.

While I never build wheels that start out with any kind of big wobble (assuming new parts), which to me just indicates poor attention to even spoke threading (i.e., before they are under tension).

Below you can read some comments about the supposed difficulties. Perhaps the 5mm offset of the holes in the rim is small enough that it behaves like a regular wheel.

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/lacing-rolling-darryl-rims-681715.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/anybody-ever-cross-their-spokes-other-side-rim-799284.html

I e-mailed surly, and they said to just build 'em regular 3 cross. I ordered the spokes for regular 3 cross out of fear of lacing a wheel and discovering that it really is a pain during the tensioning process. Instead I discovered that it was totally easy and essentially no different from building a regular wheel. These wheels should be much stronger under lateral loads (taco resistance, so to speak) than if they were laced regular 3 cross.

I wanted to share all of this with the world so you can go forward without fear. You can even order spokes for regular 3 cross and use your spare time to take a risk and lace it up 3 cross, cross laced, knowing that you'll have to move every spoke over if it doesn't work out (not exactly the end of the world). But I see no reason why you should have more trouble than me. Obviously only time will tell with regards to durability, but everything I've read suggests that durability is enhanced by cross-lacing.

I don't want all this cross-lace discussion to overshadow how amazing the hex head nipples are. You wouldn't even notice they were different if you don't look close. High tension wheels without even touching a spoke wrench!

I should also mention that I got the 27 tpi tires and they did NOT want to go ghetto tubeless. I'm running tubes right now (regular 29er works fine, 26x2.7 q-tubes work fine too, but former was easier to install the tire) to encourage the tires to take the shape of the rim. I suspect that I will end up putting a layer of foam strips between the rim strip and the split tube like I did when I made my bud on darryl tubeless. On a lesser note, the surly rim strip is a bit narrow, and the first time I installed a tire, the tube ended up being visible through the hole in the rim, as the strip had moved over a bit while mounting the fat 26" tube.

front wheel:








rear wheel:








it looks like a kid's bike:








from behind:








crappy camera:








edit: I also wanted to clarify that 3x in this context is read as "3 cross", not "3 times", as one might expect. I've tried to write out cross rather than using the x to be more clear.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

PretendGentleman said:


> I just finished building my Krampus with rabbit holes and knards.
> 
> I laced the rabbit holes using a 3x cross-lace pattern. cross-lacing is where spokes from the right flange go to the holes on the left side of the rim. The idea is that the greater _bracing angle_ leads to greater lateral strength with a relatively small loss of vertical strength.
> 
> I researched this and read mostly negative reviews. Fly Bikes, a bmx company, produces rims specifically designed to be laced like this, with the rim orienting the nipples to face the oppposite flange.





thickfog said:


> I don't think this is what cross lacing means per typical bike speak. A 3x lace would mean each spoke crosses 3 spokes on its way to the rim. You just "crossed" over to the opposite drilling.
> 
> So what is the proper or best way to build these? I did not cross over. Was that a mistake or a preference? :banghead:


With normal rims, cross lacing is not possible - since the spoke holes are in a line. Only with these wide rims with holes offset significantly from each other/centerline can you make it happen. As the user stated - the lacing is 3x, as is most common for bicycle wheels. But each flange is laced to the holes in the opposite side of the rim.

As stated, this gives you more lateral strength because the spokes are now at more of an angle from vertical. HOWEVER. These crosslaced wheels can be much harder to build simply because each movement of the nipple moves the rim farther than it would for conventional lacing. I started cross lacing wheels because the USC 100mm rims I was using have a +/-25mm offset, which gave me about 1 degree of lateral bracing vs a normal wheel with about 8 degrees. I was worried about a major lack of lateral strength, so I crosslaced - giving a lateral bracing angle around 20 degrees! The problem is that the normal 1/4 turn of a nipple now produces 10x the lateral movement. Very touchy to true initially, but very strong. I have been running some of these wheels for at least 2 years of fairly rough riding w/o issue or need to retrue.

For an offset of +/-5mm (which is what I recall the RabbitHoles having) there would be only a little bit of difference. They should build up just like a "normal" wheel, but the look will be a bit different. Here's a +/-25 3x crosslace before tension/true:


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

^That looks wicked!


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

hello. has anyone measured the ERD of the rabbit hole rim? if it is similar to surly's other rims the provided ERD of 615.5 will take into account building alternate sided. im thinking that for a geared rear hub, it would be best to lace all to one side and want to use alu nipples so want spoke length to be spot on ...i could wait until the rims arrive to measure, then order spokes, but you all know what it is like to be in a rush to get things rolling, right?


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## vanjr (Mar 16, 2008)

Has anyone had a chance to ride on backed sand or tidal flat regions? Particularly interested on how the tires do on the Texas gulf coast flats-not the loose sand but the packed stuff. I know the fat tire bikes could handle it but the krampus is very tempting. 
tia


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

dRjOn said:


> hello. has anyone measured the ERD of the rabbit hole rim? if it is similar to surly's other rims the provided ERD of 615.5 will take into account building alternate sided. im thinking that for a geared rear hub, it would be best to lace all to one side and want to use alu nipples so want spoke length to be spot on ...i could wait until the rims arrive to measure, then order spokes, but you all know what it is like to be in a rush to get things rolling, right?


qbp has 615.5

offset lacing(that's what I call it when all spokes go to one side of the rim) should work well with these. I do recommend cross-lacing, though I've only ridden 20 miles on it. It's super stiff. But offset should give pretty even tension. The same spoke worked fine for cross-lacing as the qbp spoke calculator recommended for regular lacing. Thus you don't really need to make any correction. Aluminum nipples don't stip in my experience, the head/shoulder breaks off, so having 1mm to little spoke won't make a difference. My front and rear w/ shimano hubs were both 297/298. I would just do 298 on both sides for offset.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Did my first long ride last night, ~20 miles. It rained for 2 days before the ride so this was a good test of the krampus. (In case you're worried, these trails aren't public and they love to be ridden in the rain; more wet leaves than mud) It's hard to notice that you're not slipping or how amazing your traction is if you're alone, but I wasn't and my riding buddy was amazed by what I could climb up and how well I did in turns. I'm not sure if its the high bb or wide tires or both, but I felt like I did far more two-wheeled drifts w/o any problem or even needing to unclip than I've ever experienced before (high bb makes falling over happen slower, so you have a better chance of correcting it). I also fully embraced my technique of riding with my fingers off the brake levers. Even though it was wet, I was able to make it through a windy section with millions of small pine trees, without even touching my brakes (whereas I normally would have used them in a couple of the turns).

the 3 cross, cross laced wheels are doing great. During the build, I don't put too much time into pre-stressing the wheel and bedding the spokes into the hubshell when it's a wheel for me, as I think its more efficient to just ride it and do the single retrue that is typically required. So far no retrue required. I did notice that the bike is much stiffer than my old 29er. There's a little whoopdiedoo that I use to jump over a small drainage culvert and on my old 4cross 36h p35/m756 wheel would noticeable deflect when I pumped through this little section. The cross laced rabbit hole was very confidence inspiring and noticeably stiff. for rims with only 5mm offset, based on my experience so far, I will definitely cross-lace 'em.

One thing that I'm not sure how to explain is that the krampus bunny hops like my 26er! There are three big tree trunks that I usually hit either both or my rear tire on to get over. On my 29er I'd never cleared them (i.e., without touching), and only a couple of them on my 26er. On the krampus without paying any special attention, i cleared every single trunk without touching. A very pleasant surprise.

I think I ended up riding faster in the same way that people do when they switch to a single speed. I was more aggressive attacking hills and since I can't use my granny gear, I rode taller gears; I like to save that easiest gear for the hardest climb - it helps psychologically to know you _could_ make it easier!


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## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

Pretend - What PSI were you at? Any comparo of how it felt between the Knard and a regular 29er tire? I just switched out my front for a Knard, but haven't had a chance to ride. I thought the Ardent 2.4 was big, but this thing looks humongous.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

stremf said:


> Pretend - What PSI were you at? Any comparo of how it felt between the Knard and a regular 29er tire? I just switched out my front for a Knard, but haven't had a chance to ride. I thought the Ardent 2.4 was big, but this thing looks humongous.


Not sure about pressure, my pump isn't accurate down there. I'd guess around 12 psi. I also varied the pressure on the ride using a pump w/o gauge. I did get a mild pinch flat in the rear where I have a tube, so it was pretty low, but I also hit hard.

I ride very aggressively, and low pressures do give great traction, but they also lead to problems with the big hits. If I put the pressure at a point that gave the best traction, I could bottom out the rim pumping a big dip. Still figuring out the trade-offs, but looking forward to making the rear tubeless (waiting for hardware store to get more foam in) so pinch flats are no longer an issue.


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## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

Thanks. Did you feel any better/less beat up than being on a rigid 29er at the end of the 20 miler? I get a sore shoulder after a ride on my rigid Jones (is that redundant?), so hoping that the Knard will soften up the ride so I can go longer.

I've got a tube in there right now, but after the tire properly takes its shape, I'm going to set it up split-tube tubeless.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

dRjOn said:


> hello. has anyone measured the ERD of the rabbit hole rim? if it is similar to surly's other rims the provided ERD of 615.5 will take into account building alternate sided. im thinking that for a geared rear hub, it would be best to lace all to one side and want to use alu nipples so want spoke length to be spot on ...i could wait until the rims arrive to measure, then order spokes, but you all know what it is like to be in a rush to get things rolling, right?


Mine hit 615 on the dot.


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## dbruning (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm finding that without using a digital gauge (i just picked up a SKS one) that 10-12psi on a variety of high end floor pumps actually meant 6-8psi tires. Today I rode through 3-5 inches of fresh snow at 9psi and my print was comparable to an endomorphs tracks left by an earlier riser than me.


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

My Krampus made possible by Cycle Haven.
They still have Krampus build kits available.


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## ironman13 (Aug 3, 2009)

expectacular gtr2ebike


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

ironman13 said:


> expectacular gtr2ebike


+1. That thing looks awesome. Well done.


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

I want one of these but I'm not hardcore enough for a rigid bike. Has anyone tried any other suspension fork? Seems like a Fox works fine. Will it rub the crown on the rare occasion that you get full travel? That Fox looks like my 26er with a 2.3 650b tire in it.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

GTR-33 said:


> I want one of these but I'm not hardcore enough for a rigid bike. Has anyone tried any other suspension fork? Seems like a Fox works fine. Will it rub the crown on the rare occasion that you get full travel? That Fox looks like my 26er with a 2.3 650b tire in it.


I'm the same way. I've thought about it a lot, but in reality I don't even want to spend the money to build a rigid full fat bike because other than the possible lighter weight I'm pretty sure I would not end up riding it much after the novelty wore off. For me FS is the only way to go. But w/o that option for Knard size tires, at the moment at least, having a suspension fork is the next best thing.

[For those who don't know I do have a FS fat bike I built that works very well.]


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

GTR-33 said:


> Has anyone tried any other suspension fork?


Yep, works like a charm too.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

jfkbike2 said:


> I have now weighed 4 tires, 2 120 tpi and 2 27 tpi versions. The 120's were ~1080 - 1100 grams and the 27's were north of 1200 gr. *I do not see how they could be 700 or 800 grams. does not make sense to me*. Just seems like too much variation in the manufacturing process to be 300 grams difference per tire.


+1 - but if past experience with Surly fat bike tires holds true there is a significant variation [say 100g] between the same tires when weighed. And 120tpi tires are significantly lighter.

In the fat bike world some folks are weighing tires before they buy them and cherry picking the light ones.


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## tao (Jan 27, 2008)

That is Sexy.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

tao said:


> That is Sexy.


Are all those spokes laced to the left side of the rim? If so, how's it holding up?


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

PretendGentleman said:


> Are all those spokes laced to the left side of the rim? If so, how's it holding up?


Yes, and just fine.

It's funny how many folks question it, and worry about durability. Every Pugsley and Moonlander is rolling on at least one, if not two, offset built rims.

And in this particular case, the rim is pretty narrow, further reducing the likelihood of it ever being a problem....

Running an offset built Uma 90 on my fatty with a Lefty, beat the snot out of that thing too!

And tao? Thanks!

edit: Oops, forgot, I ended up relacing it to symmetrical, no issues, just evened up the spoke tension to do so. It was offset when that pic was taken though....


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## tswg (Aug 30, 2007)

Just finished my build today. It's an XL and it came in at about 30 lbs.

It's a suicide-shift 2 speed. Basically a single speed but when I need it I can kick down (literally) from 36-19 to 22-19 to power up the big hills we have around here). I've run this set-up on my commuter for a year now and love it.

Specs:

- Surly MWOD double front (36 and 22)
- ghetto-tubeless
- AVid BB7 180mm front and rear
- paul's singlespeed rear hub
- Paul's melvin chain tensioner
- white industries eno 19t 
- thomson seatpost
- crank brother's candy pedals
- precision handlebars (super wide) and grips
- temporary kona stem

I'll probably trim the handlebars a few inches, and once I get a few rides in I'll decide what size stem I need and place a matching thomson stem on there. and i'll chop the steerer at that time too!

I've only gone up and down the block a few times, but this is definitely a much different animal then the Pugsley I just sold. I'm looking to find a suspension fork for it once I'm comfortable with the options that present themselves.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

So I don't get tire flats on my local trails. Period. Knock on wood. I've run a tubed fat front for almost a year now. No flats. Taking flat prevention out of the equation, is there a good argument for running the Knard/Rabbit Hole gorilla tubeless? I can't imagine the weight savings are that great. Low pressures are nice, but I haven't had trouble with pinch flats on my 45 North fat front running Q tubes. I have a Rabbit Hole 120tpi Knard front wheel/tire coming this week. With my practical experience, I could go either way with tubes or tubeless. But I could be missing the obvious. Anybody care to share any wisdom?


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## dvo1 (May 28, 2006)

bluestatevirgin said:


> With my practical experience, I could go either way with tubes or tubeless. But I could be missing the obvious. Anybody care to share any wisdom?


Running my Husker Du tubeless I saw a 2 once difference in weight which can be more I just didn't have the right rim strip to loose more weight, ride wise though you could feel the tire felt like it had less air in it then when you have a tube, i.e. 10psi feels like 8psi, which of course sounds stupid, but that's what I can say.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

bluestatevirgin said:


> So I don't get tire flats on my local trails. Period. Knock on wood. I've run a tubed fat front for almost a year now. No flats. Taking flat prevention out of the equation, is there a good argument for running the Knard/Rabbit Hole gorilla tubeless? I can't imagine the weight savings are that great. Low pressures are nice, but I haven't had trouble with pinch flats on my 45 North fat front running Q tubes. I have a Rabbit Hole 120tpi Knard front wheel/tire coming this week. With my practical experience, I could go either way with tubes or tubeless. But I could be missing the obvious. Anybody care to share any wisdom?


Depends on the tubeless setup and the tube setup you came from.

Look at both ways as a system.

Both need a rim strip with drilled holy rims. Now, you can use something heavy as hell like the Surly rim strips or something light like one or two rolls of duct tape. This also gives design choices as you can run the tape inside out and show off the tape pattern /design. 
For a rim strip, I am using a poly-type designer tape. It's light as heck and super strong.

So there with tubes or tubeless you can save a little weight and make your rims look cool.

Onto the tube part. You can use the heavy Surly toob or use a regular 29er tube. Now, depending on your trails, stretching a 29er tube to fill a 3 inch tire, may lead to flats quite fast. Only you can be the judge on that.

So, depending on tube used subtract that weight for tubeless and then add:

weight of the stans (mine weighs 1/2 oz) or duct tape for rim sealing tape, the valve stem (mine weighs less than 1/4 oz) and AT least 2oz of sealant for a tire this large. Most people use 3 or 4 oz. I don't. That's talked about in another thread.

Also some people have a hard time seating the bead tubeless and resort to foam in the rim channel. It weighs nothing though. But whatever, any weight must be added.

So add the tubeless setup weight and what have you really saved... Maybe 1-4 ounces given the variables I've stated. So that would be 2-8 ounces for the total. That goes from 2 oz (worthless) to 8 oz (which is quite wishful really) which is worth it.

My point is there's too many variables on any given setup to give a solid weight loss figure.

Combine this with tubless issues: burping, possible bead unseating on the trail making it very hard to reseat, air loss until the tire is well coated with stans, flats on the trail still and no backup tube if you take that kind of chance. 
So, yes I run tubless (and no spare tube in my pack. It has left me walking once in 5 years) to save those few ounces, but like dvo1 said 10 psi feels like 8 and rolling resistance feels less with tubless. It may be in my head, but if this is what it takes to trick myself, then so be it.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bluestatevirgin said:


> So I don't get tire flats on my local trails. Period. Knock on wood. I've run a tubed fat front for almost a year now. No flats. Taking flat prevention out of the equation, is there a good argument for running the Knard/Rabbit Hole gorilla tubeless? I can't imagine the weight savings are that great. Low pressures are nice, but I haven't had trouble with pinch flats on my 45 North fat front running Q tubes. I have a Rabbit Hole 120tpi Knard front wheel/tire coming this week. With my practical experience, I could go either way with tubes or tubeless. But I could be missing the obvious. Anybody care to share any wisdom?


I rarely got flats on my MTBs with tubes. Like less than 1 per year. Switching to tubeless my wheels are lighter which is nice. I get better traction and less rolling resistance. I can also run low pressures without worry about snake bites.

I carry a spare tube in my hydration pack, but I've never had a tubeless failure on the trail.

I've switched my 2 main MTBs over to tubeless and won't go back. Thinking of setting up my fatbike tubeless as well.

Forget about the weight and think about allowing your tire to conform more easily to the terrain without having that tube in there. That extra traction/performance from your tire is worth it.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

vikb said:


> I rarely got flats on my MTBs with tubes. Like less than 1 per year. Switching to tubeless my wheels are lighter which is nice. I get better traction and less rolling resistance. I can also run low pressures without worry about snake bites.
> 
> I carry a spare tube in my hydration pack, but I've never had a tubeless failure on the trail.
> 
> ...


+1 to this. This is nearly identical to my experience and opinions on tubeless.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

I heard yesterday that these rims are only 670grams. That's crazy light for that width. Have others weighed their rims? How about a weight on the production tires? 120tpi.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I haven't weighed anything except the complete bike, but the rims did feel very light. I was definitely surprised by the weight.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

modifier said:


> I heard yesterday that these rims are only 670grams. That's crazy light for that width. Have others weighed their rims? How about a weight on the production tires? 120tpi.


Mine came in at 653 grams.


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

I have one good offroad ride in finnaly-and was impressed again! Loved it on the test last summer-but really loved it at home! Did a very rocky trail-rock crawling type. Found that the front lifts real well for such a big bike-and the slack head angle was awesome rooling off stuff-when i didnt get the front up! A buddy said it just looked easy-like I was on an easier trail.

A note about tubes/tubeless........Remember if you run tubes to talc or babaypowder the inside of the tire well. It is kind of forgotten to do this it seems. If you have the tire and tube talced well-they CAN move independently...it feels more like tubeless.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

modifier said:


> I heard yesterday that these rims are only 670grams. That's crazy light for that width. Have others weighed their rims? How about a weight on the production tires? 120tpi.


Most rim weights I've seen for the Rabbit Hole in this thread, and others, have come in under 700 grams. The 120tpi tires seem to be all over the place, from 700 to 1100grams. The most common weight reading I've been seeing for the 120tpi Knard is between 950-1000.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I mounted my 120 tpi Knard yesterday and did not like the way the bead seated, it popped off on both sides the first time I aired it up; it popped at 25psi, so not a lot of air. 

I'm using a Nimbus Dominator 2 rim, 42mm, burly rim hook, so I was kinda suprised the tire popped off so eailly. I also like running tubeless, and had planned to run tubeless on the Knard, but not any longer. Maybe the 27tpi is burlier constructopn and/or has a tighter fit, but this the ultraligt casing and it fits big, so I see this tire blowing off the rim as a tubeless set up.

I also have a Knard 26 x 3.8 120tpi and it appears to have a standard Surly casing, feels more substantial, though it also weighs more at 1325gm.

My 29 x 3 120tpi Knard weighs 925gm, kinda heavy for what it is, only ten percent larger overall that my Hans Dampf 2.35, far less burly, and heavier by 50gm. 

Anyone have a 27tpi Knard comparison to a 120tpi? How does the casing and rubber differ? What's the weight range for the 27tpi?

Not impressed so far...


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> +1 to this. This is nearly identical to my experience and opinions on tubeless.


Thanks to everyone above for the tubeless responses. I worried I might be opening the old tube vs. tubleless can or worms--I generally go tubeless, but not for my fat front which I never bothered to set up tubeless. I wasn't sure if these fatter tires might fall somewhere outside the tubeless argument folks have on "regular" tires. By the way, for those who are thinking of using tubes, I've had just great luck and performance from q-tubes. Running the q-tube at really low pressure on the front, and it's been pretty perfect.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> I mounted my 120 tpi Knard yesterday and did not like the way the bead seated, it popped off on both sides the first time I aired it up; it popped at 25psi, so not a lot of air.
> 
> I'm using a Nimbus Dominator 2 rim, 42mm, burly rim hook, so I was kinda suprised the tire popped off so eailly. I also like running tubeless, and had planned to run tubeless on the Knard, but not any longer. Maybe the 27tpi is burlier constructopn and/or has a tighter fit, but this the ultraligt casing and it fits big, so I see this tire blowing off the rim as a tubeless set up.
> 
> ...


I have 27tpi f and r. I set up the front tubeless, but ran out of foam for the rear. When inflating the tubed rear I had 1 issue with the bead popping off around 12 psi; had to let air out and reseat the bead. Going tubeless w/ 24" split q-tube, had to use foam to create seal/push rim to sidewalls. Very loud snapping of bead onto rim. W/ no sealant very little air leaking out! Burped 1 time so far, so running higher air pressure. Burping isn't a good sign! I'm running a slime tube in the rear and it seemed to even recover from a pinch flat, to my surprise. But pinch flat wouldn't be an issue with tubeless, which is what I have exclusively run on mtb for the last 2 years. I'm ready for a successor to the knard. Something like the bud and lou for tread, but a 3.2 or so up front!

Cross laced wheels have ~40 miles on them and they're still running super stiff and super straight. I love how stiff this bike is, I would be curious to compare to a regular laced krampus.


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

so how many people are running normal 29er tubes vs the surly tubes? any issues? i was looking at running standard schwalbe 29er tubes or the q tubes superlite ones. is it worth it or is it more reliable to run the Surly tubes??


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

SteveJfromtheSwitch said:


> so how many people are running normal 29er tubes vs the surly tubes? any issues? i was looking at running standard schwalbe 29er tubes or the q tubes superlite ones. is it worth it or is it more reliable to run the Surly tubes??


As I mentioned above, I have been running a q-tubes superlite on my fat front bike for almost a year with no issues. I'll take the weight savings myself.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

thickfog said:


> Depends on the tubeless setup and the tube setup you came from.
> 
> Look at both ways as a system.
> 
> ...


Thickfog, you're using tape as a rim strip. Are you using two pre-measured strips of tape placed sticky-side together to create a rim strip?


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

bluestatevirgin said:


> Thickfog, you're using tape as a rim strip. Are you using two pre-measured strips of tape placed sticky-side together to create a rim strip?


For my uma 90 mm rims on my fat bike, yes two pieces of designer duct tape side by side sticky side out. I did not cut this tape as I preferred the slight overlap for strength. This was a pain to set up. One year two months still ok.

For krampus, just a single piece sticky side out, but I cut the width down as the poly tape would not conform to the center channel well. This makes me a bit nervous as the tape edge is closer to the rim holes. My fear is the tape may push through the holes one day if it shifts. :banghead:


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

thickfog said:


> For krampus, just a single piece sticky side out, but I cut the width down as the poly tape would not conform to the center channel well. This makes me a bit nervous as the tape edge is closer to the rim holes. My fear is the tape may push through the holes one day if it shifts. :banghead:


The surly rimstrip has this same problem! If you don't pay close attention, its easy to end up with the tube protruding from the cutouts! The strip should be about 1cm wider imo.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

My different tapes :










From left to right :
Green sparkle poly tape. Rim strip. From
tapebrothers.com:
https://www.tapebrothers.com/mobile/default.aspx#P2998

Duck brand tape. Rim strip.

Gorilla tape. Rim sealing and rim strip.

Giant stan's tape at almost 4 inches wide! Rim sealing.

The fatbike with uma 90s tubless. Rear uses gorilla as sealing tape, front uses giant stans (giant stans was found later). I prefer stans as it stretches and conforms to the rim crevices better:


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## 1x1clyde (Oct 5, 2005)

One more "mod" I had to try 

White Bros Carbon Fork, 490 Axle to crown keeps it slack!

So with the Rabbit Hole rims, 120 tpi Knards it is at a svelte 27 1/2.

I've always liked carbon with my rigid set ups and the addition of the bigger tire is a perfect match. Had some pretty fast runs down some local trails the last few days and expect for the really rocky it was just fine!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I have the Knard 29 x 3 (120tpi). I run Maxxis Freeride Tubes 26 x 2.2-2.5 (295gm) in all my tires, 26 x 4", 29 x 2.4, and now 29 x 3". Reasonable weight, no pinch flats to date, less expensive and more durable than the Surly offerings. Be sure and preinflate the tube to stretch it out, use some powder so the tube moves in the tire.

I rode hard today, found the pressure sweet spot pretty quickly at 17psi with ambient air temp around 40 deg F. Rode a lot of rock, some mud, roots, drops up to 2', had a minor rim shot off one biggish ledge where I landed sideways, it would probably have been better with a little more pressure, but more pressure = more bounce.

Overall I like the tire, it's faster rolling that an Ardent or Hans Dampf, not quite as competent in mud, but then what is... The tir needed some breaking in, initially a little squirelly, but once it got dirty it was all good. The volume is very obvious, far more cushion than a 2.4, easier on my back and butt, was able to ride longer and never felt beat; the HD always leaves me feeling beat up.

I'd be curious to see if the sidewalls are beefier on the 27tpi, anyone have both tires in hand to do a comparison?


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

thickfog said:


> For krampus, just a single piece sticky side out, but I cut the width down as the poly tape would not conform to the center channel well. This makes me a bit nervous as the tape edge is closer to the rim holes. My fear is the tape may push through the holes one day if it shifts. :banghead:


Thanks. I haven't set up a cut-out rim before. I'm not going to use the Surly rim strip. I wasn't sure if using the tape sticky-side against the rim and with the sticky open to the air outside the rim in the cut outs would cause some kind of problems. Either as dirt collectors, or a sticky mess on hot days. Plus, with regular gorilla tape it'll be kind of ugly. I'll figure it out.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

I meant sticky side out as in when you are looking at the rim channel. Then sealing tape over that. You don't want sticky tape exposed to the outside. That would be some mess.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

thickfog said:


> I meant sticky side out as in when you are looking at the rim channel. Then sealing tape over that. You don't want sticky tape exposed to the outside. That would be some mess.


Yep. Got it. Common sense, right? Now I'm just looking into a couple different methods.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

bluestatevirgin said:


> Yep. Got it. Common sense, right? Now I'm just looking into a couple different methods.


Yeah kind of common sense. Some people have tried sticky outside and just let the dirt collect. After a certain point, the tape is nicely coated. I've also heard of coating the exposed tape with glitter. Now that might be cool.


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## robothouse (Nov 26, 2008)

Update on my tubeless setup...
45mi shredder ride 4k climbing in goathead central Tucson Az &
2 day bike-packing ~40mi on the Black Canyon Trail which has some gnarly tire flattener sections.
...still holding awesomely with the 26" split tube setup and no tape!

Also, unless you're doing mega-drops and DH sections, this thing handles about the same as my Kona Unit with a F29!!!


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

did you use any foam under your split tube? width?


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

robothouse said:


> Update on my tubeless setup...
> 45mi shredder ride 4k climbing in goathead central Tucson Az &
> 2 day bike-packing ~40mi on the Black Canyon Trail which has some gnarly tire flattener sections.
> ...still holding awesomely with the 26" split tube setup and no tape!
> ...


crazy, mine required foam (for floor pump bead seating) and keeps burping at moderate pressures, and I've only set it up tubeless in the front! 27tpi tires. The tires weren't all that easy to get on the rim either.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

robothouse said:


> Update on my tubeless setup...
> 45mi shredder ride 4k climbing in goathead central Tucson Az &
> 2 day bike-packing ~40mi on the Black Canyon Trail which has some gnarly tire flattener sections.
> ...still holding awesomely with the 26" split tube setup and no tape!
> ...


Are you saying you have the split tube right up against the bare rim?


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## ntm1973 (Jan 7, 2013)

Where do you guys see this new tire size going? Will there be more offerings or is this going to be it for tire selection? I like the idea of being able to use standard bike stuff and and getting some "fat bike" benefits.

Also,

Has anyone tried running their Krampus with normal 29er tires and wheels? Did you get a lot of pedal strikes? How low was your BB? Got a pic of the chainstay clearance in the rear with the knard and normal 29er tire? I am thinking that this might be just the ticket for a winter bike, if there is enough tire clearance.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I know I've said it numerous times, but I hope Surly makes a 29x3" Nate :thumbsup:


I would like to see a regular 29" tire mounted on the Rabbit Hole. I like the look of regular (2.2-2.4 width) tires on wide rims. I kind of wanted to build up a Karate Monkey with a Rabbit Hole wheelset and 29x2.4" tires to see what it was like if I didn't get a Krampus.


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

*Fox fork???*

Can we please have a photo of the tire clearance on that Fox fork? What rims are those?


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

r1Gel said:


> Can we please have a photo of the tire clearance on that Fox fork? What rims are those?


There are multiple pictures of the fox fork tire clearance in this thread already.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I know I've said it numerous times, but I hope Surly makes a 29x3" Nate.


Agreed on the face of the idea. However, the Knard is a decent rear tire already, what's needed is a front specific tire, so my vote would be, bring on the 29x3 Bud!!!!!


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

Sorry. I haven't had the time to go through all 29 pages of this thread.


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

r1Gel said:


> Sorry. I haven't had the time to go through all 29 pages of this thread.


Let me google that for you


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

ntm1973 said:


> Where do you guys see this new tire size going? Will there be more offerings or is this going to be it for tire selection? I like the idea of being able to use standard bike stuff and and getting some "fat bike" benefits.


The development of fat bike 26 x 4" rubber gives you an idea of what will happen. Surly ran with one general purpose tire for a few years until sales of fat bikes grew the market. Then they released a 2nd tire and then several tire options. Now you have a at least 1 non-QBP company [On One] putting out a quality 26 x 4" tire.

My guess is that Surly/QBP will want to keep the buzz going on the Krampus/29+ idea so I would expect something new every year. They want the forums, blogs and mags buzzing so that the idea catches on.

That could be a new tire or maybe Salsa will release a lighter AL 29+ bike. Maybe both.

I think it will depend on sales numbers for the Krampus and also for 29+ tire/rims a la carte.

To answer your question the other way the Knard won't be the only tire option in a couple years unless QBP is stuck with a bunch of 29+ tires and rims they can't sell. That doesn't seem likely.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

robothouse said:


> ...still holding awesomely with the 26" split tube setup and no tape!


So you are running a split tube without any type of rim strip under it? My Knard and RH should be here today  It's going on the front of my rigid SS. Going to try it on a P35 while I'm building the RH.


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

vikb said:


> Salsa will release a lighter AL 29+ bike


wouldn't shock me if we saw that this weekend.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

ntm1973 said:


> Has anyone tried running their Krampus with normal 29er tires and wheels? Did you get a lot of pedal strikes? How low was your BB? Got a pic of the chainstay clearance in the rear with the knard and normal 29er tire? I am thinking that this might be just the ticket for a winter bike, if there is enough tire clearance.


Surprisingly enough, the Krampus has a higher BB than a Karate Monkey:
BB Drop:
Karate Monkey: 68.0mm
Krampus: 60.0mm
Salsa El Mariachi: 60 mm

So with all equal size 29er tires, the Krampus and El Mariachi will have the same bb height, and Karate Monkey will be lower.


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## bhc (Sep 27, 2005)

ktm520 said:


> So you are running a split tube without any type of rim strip under it? My Knard and RH should be here today  It's going on the front of my rigid SS. Going to try it on a P35 while I'm building the RH.


Please give a review on how the Knard works with the P35.


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## robothouse (Nov 26, 2008)

Sorry folks, I guess I left some info out on the tubeless setup...

- 120tpi Knard tires (front n rear)
- no foam or gorilla tape used
- used Surly's provided PVC 38mm rim-strip
- used 26" tube split down the middle over Surly's rim-strip
- 2.5oz of Stan's sealant per wheel... not much, I know... but I'm testing 
- used air compressor to inflate, both wheels sealed bead on the first try.
- running happily with ~13psi on trail rides, holds air even overnight in sub 32F while bikepacking
- brings 2 tubes for backup on rides, but am starting to feel pretty comfy with this setup after +100mi

Everyone else I've been reading online use variations including foam, gorilla tape, 24" tubes, etc... these may provide added longevity, but time will tell.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Could someone with a medium Krampus measure the dimensions of the interior of the front triangle [ie. the size of a frame bag] pls?


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Thanks robothouse. 

Got my Knard 120 and RH today. Knard weighed 970g and RH was 700g. Don't have spokes or a hub yet for the RH, but I mounted the tire on a P35 and the RH with a tube. At 20psi, the tread width was 74mm and 74.5mm respectively. I was also able to get the tire to easily bead tubeless on the RH with just one wrap of clear package tape using a compressor. Was planning to use a 24 split tube but after this test I think I will mount it with just tape.

At low psi, I think you could get away with running a split tube without a rim strip/tape.


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## miles e (Jan 16, 2004)

ktm520 said:


> I mounted the tire on a P35 and the RH with a tube. At 20psi, the tread width was 74mm and 74.5mm respectively.


Aside from the minor difference in width, is there much of a noticable difference in profile between the tire on the two rims? I mounted a Knard on a P35 and the profile appears quite "eggy" (i.e. tall with substantial drop from the crown to the edge knobs). The pics I've seen of the Knard on a RH look similar, but a side by side comparison would be great.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

miles e, I'll take some pics of the two later this week. I honestly didn't really pay any attention to the profile between the two rims. If I get the RH built before the weekend, I probably won't even try the P35 first.


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## miles e (Jan 16, 2004)

ktm520 said:


> miles e, I'll take some pics of the two later this week. I honestly didn't really pay any attention to the profile between the two rims. If I get the RH built before the weekend, I probably won't even try the P35 first.


Cool. I'm sure the RH is the optimal rim for the Knard, but I have a few reasons for wanting to use the P35 (which Surly did say was okay) so long as it doesn't handle to wonky. Maybe the low pressure will flatten the tire out once on the bike and negate some of what I'm seeing, but it seems like the cornering would be weird with such a tall profile.


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## ballistic thong (Oct 13, 2007)

Just picked up mine...


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

So I've just about concluded that tubeless won't work on these. I keep burping my front wheel unless I run the pressure much higher. Last night I lost so much air from losing bits here and there that I got a snake bite in the sidewall and couldn't get it to reseal and had to stick a tube in. I'm thinking the 27tpi tires are just lacking something that nicer folding tires have. I thought the 27tpi would be more durable and work better for tubeless, just with the weight penalty of the heavier, cheaper tire. I'm disappointed, this will be the first time for me running tubes in a few years!


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

^
Disappointed to hear this. 

I wish Surly would make a tubeless compatible rim or license it from stans like the UMA rims. UMA tubless are rock solid. 

They seem ahead of the times and behind the times on some aspects.


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## TBMD9er (May 22, 2009)

Are the 27tpi wire beaded as well? I've had much less luck setting up wire beaded than kevlar beaded tires tubeless. Seems like the more pliable kevlar bead conforms to the rim better.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I have no experience with setting up Surly tires tubeless, but from other tires I've worked with, a folding bead and higher tpi tire make a huge difference. It seems like the members who have converted the 120tpi Knards to tubeless have had much better luck... Tubeless or not, I won't buy the cheaper version of tires, in my experience it's never been worth the price savings.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

thickfog said:


> ^
> Disappointed to hear this.
> 
> I wish Surly would make a tubeless compatible rim or license it from stans like the UMA rims. UMA tubless are rock solid.
> ...





TBMD9er said:


> Are the 27tpi wire beaded as well? I've had much less luck setting up wire beaded than kevlar beaded tires tubeless. Seems like the more pliable kevlar bead conforms to the rim better.





sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I have no experience with setting up Surly tires tubeless, but from other tires I've worked with, a folding bead and higher tpi tire make a huge difference. It seems like the members who have converted the 120tpi Knards to tubeless have had much better luck... Tubeless or not, I won't buy the cheaper version of tires, in my experience it's never been worth the price savings.


My experience will hopefully help the next guy.

yep, 27tpi is wire bead (or at least non-folding). My surly Bud tire is 120tpi and once I put foam under the rim strip, it was bomb proof! I would have glady spent the extra few bucks to get the higher tpi tires, but I thought the 27tpi would actually do better tubeless. Now I'll just have to spend the next 9months trying to wear these things out! Hopefully slime tubes will keep the flats sufficiently rare, as flats are the only reason I ride tubeless.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

A few thoughts. I'm running the 120's, split tube, no issues at all. 

The stiffer casing can make it harder to get it to seat initially, but once you get it, it should work fine. 

I have not run into issues with getting any of the 27 TPI, steel bead fatties to set up with the split tube, not that it's super relevant, but worth noting. 

I do find that fresh tires don't set up as easily as ones that have been ridden for a while with tubes. to get them fully formed out. 

Did you check to see that you had no bends in the wire bead? A little kink can cause major hassles, fortunately, a quick finger tweak and it's fine. 

Sorry for your hassles, it can work, and at least with the 120's, works quite well.....


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

miles e said:


> Cool. I'm sure the RH is the optimal rim for the Knard, but I have a few reasons for wanting to use the P35 (which Surly did say was okay) so long as it doesn't handle to wonky. Maybe the low pressure will flatten the tire out once on the bike and negate some of what I'm seeing, but it seems like the cornering would be weird with such a tall profile.


I think the P35 should handle fine with this tire. I'm running mine on a Flow Ex which has a 25.5mm internal width vs. the P35 at 29mm. I've not discovered any bad habits. Does it handle as well as my Hans Dampf/Flow Ex on high-speed dirt? No, but neither did any other tire/rim combo that I've tried. Steering is also not as precise as the HD/Flow, but all in all these are minor downsides.

Also, the sidewalls are pretty thin on this tire. So less sidewall exposure on the narrower rim might be a good thing on rocky terrain. I attached a cell phone pic to try to show the profile on the Flow Ex. The tire looks slightly fatter in real life.

Ok, so one more thing to mention. I'm running a tube and got a snake bite flat on some very rocky terrain last night. I thought I had 18psi in the tire (I weigh 225). I thought that should be plenty, but maybe I lost some air and didn't know it. I do think the narrower rim may increase the chances for Snakebite with tubes. My next ride will be tubeless with 19-20 psi.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Tubeless or not, I won't buy the cheaper version of tires, in my experience it's never been worth the price savings.


+1 - I couldn't agree more... :thumbsup:


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

What's the max spoke tension for the Rabbit Hole?


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## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

PretendGentleman said:


> So I've just about concluded that tubeless won't work on these. I keep burping my front wheel unless I run the pressure much higher. Last night I lost so much air from losing bits here and there that I got a snake bite in the sidewall and couldn't get it to reseal and had to stick a tube in. I'm thinking the 27tpi tires are just lacking something that nicer folding tires have. I thought the 27tpi would be more durable and work better for tubeless, just with the weight penalty of the heavier, cheaper tire. I'm disappointed, this will be the first time for me running tubes in a few years!


I'm going to bet that setting it up using split-tube will alleviate the burps. I've got a 27TPI that I'm going to set up split-tube this week. I usually dab on some extra Mold Builder latex along the bead for faster set up. This has worked well on other tires I've set up this way.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

stremf said:


> I'm going to bet that setting it up using split-tube will alleviate the burps. I've got a 27TPI that I'm going to set up split-tube this week. I usually dab on some extra Mold Builder latex along the bead for faster set up. This has worked well on other tires I've set up this way.


It is split-tube! I put foam under it too, but just to help with seating the bead with only a floor pump.

It does hold air when seated, but if I run low pressures that are great for 99% of the trail, the remaining 1% is just too dang rough. It's like you've got to add air to your suspension fork every time you bottom it out! You can put in extra air and lose some suppleness or stop and repump now and then. Except this is a suspension fork that can be damaged when you bottom it out!

I didn't have this problem with regular tubeless 29er wheels, b/c I wasn't trying to run low pressure. Though I also didn't have it with my bud on darryl, but that's 120 tpi and much bigger cross-section.


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## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

PretendGentleman said:


> It is split-tube! I put foam under it too, but just to help with seating the bead with only a floor pump.
> 
> It does hold air when seated, but if I run low pressures that are great for 99% of the trail, the remaining 1% is just too dang rough. It's like you've got to add air to your suspension fork every time you bottom it out! You can put in extra air and lose some suppleness or stop and repump now and then. Except this is a suspension fork that can be damaged when you bottom it out!
> 
> I didn't have this problem with regular tubeless 29er wheels, b/c I wasn't trying to run low pressure. Though I also didn't have it with my bud on darryl, but that's 120 tpi and much bigger cross-section.


Sorry about that--didn't realize you were already using split-tube method. Now you've got ME worried!! 

3 hrs later: I just set mine up with 26" Q-Tube, no foam. Just a layer of gorilla tape underneath and the split-tube. Tire mounted easy and aired up on first try. Around 25psi, loud pop as it seated. I'm going to let it set for a day or two, then head out for a test ride.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

RH build was uneventful. First single wall rim I've built and was surprised by the stiffness. Hope Evo black hub (front), black Laser spokes, black brass nips, asymmetrical build, 100kgf. 

Tape job was a learning experience. I used one layer of orange duck tape, trimmed down to fit just inside of the bead hook, followed up with a layer of hd package tape lip to lip. The duck tape wouldn't lay flat and wrinkled at the nipple head, although mostly cosmetic. Soaped the beads and mounted the tire without sealant. Injected 4oz of sealant. Took a few rounds of air before the bead sealed up. Once I finally got it to hold 20psi, I heard a pop and the tape started leaking. Apparantly I didn't get a good seal where the package tape overlapped and it lifted up. Not sure what I'm going to change for round two, but I don't like how the duck tape was wrinkling.

I impressed by how tight this tire (120) fits on the bead. It also take a considerable amount of force to push it off the bead.


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## bike hippy (Mar 16, 2007)

1x1clyde, I'm interested how the Knards feel on a much narrower rim. Do you feel like they are rolling over in the corners with the 24.5mm rim? Have you ridden the Rabbit Hole rim as well for comparison?


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

ktm520 said:


> Once I finally got it to hold 20psi, I heard a pop and the tape started leaking. Apparantly I didn't get a good seal where the package tape overlapped and it lifted up. Not sure what I'm going to change for round two, but I don't like how the duck tape was wrinkling.
> 
> I impressed by how tight this tire (120) fits on the bead. It also take a considerable amount of force to push it off the bead.


I haven't tried it, but I've heard of people using a hair dryer to warm the tape and encourage the tape's adhesive to bond well to the rim(especially if you're working in cold weather/ a cold room). I haven't heard of people using packing tape on top of duck tape. I've heard of packing tape being used over the holes in the rim to allow you to see inside, but it doesn't sound like that's what you're doing.

Gorilla brand duck tape has more adhesive than most duck tapes, but is also thicker and heavier. One layer might suffice.


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## 1x1clyde (Oct 5, 2005)

bike hippy said:


> 1x1clyde, I'm interested how the Knards feel on a much narrower rim. Do you feel like they are rolling over in the corners with the 24.5mm rim? Have you ridden the Rabbit Hole rim as well for comparison?


I have been on the Rabbit Hole rims now for about 2 weeks....I have to say that the Arch EX while light were not that fun in driving turns.
The Rabbit Hole/Knard combo is king!

So happy with the set up. Cornering especially is so solid its scary the grip that you can get before you exceed the side traction.

I will add that I went ghetto tubeless with the Rabbit hole rims for about a week- 4 rides here in socal- and I am riding this like any of my other bikes. The tubeless set up did burp in the front - running a filet 24" tube and the surly rim strip- and the PSI had to hover around 19 to work for me.
When I went back to good ole tubes, which this is the only bike I have that uses tubes lol!, I can run 15 PSI and hit rock gardens, drops and fast berms without hesitation!

Still very pleased with the bike and the bling carbon fork is a good addition!


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

1x1clyde said:


> I have been on the Rabbit Hole rims now for about 2 weeks....I have to say that the Arch EX while light were not that fun in driving turns.
> The Rabbit Hole/Knard combo is king!
> 
> So happy with the set up. Cornering especially is so solid its scary the grip that you can get before you exceed the side traction.
> ...


I agree with everything you are saying. And I am running tubes also!


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

miles e said:


> Aside from the minor difference in width, is there much of a noticable difference in profile between the tire on the two rims? I mounted a Knard on a P35 and the profile appears quite "eggy" (i.e. tall with substantial drop from the crown to the edge knobs). The pics I've seen of the Knard on a RH look similar, but a side by side comparison would be great.


I couldn't really tell much difference in the profile between the RH and p35 without laying a square accross the tire. The RH had a profile height (from tip of side knobs to top of center tread) of 20mm and the p35 was 22mm at 20psi. In my experience, a wider rim is mainly going to allow you to drop the pressure lower without getting squirm. I think the P35's will work pretty well. I will probably try it sometime in the near future, but for now it's on a RH in a Vassago Pitch fork.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

PretendGentleman said:


> I haven't heard of people using packing tape on top of duck tape. I've heard of packing tape being used over the holes in the rim to allow you to see inside, but it doesn't sound like that's what you're doing.


I'm using orange Duck Tape brand tape for the cosmetic layer (sticky side out). Initialy, I tried package tape over the top of that to seal the rim bed, but in a rush , I broke the cardinal rule and didn't install a tube first to fully seat the tape. Besides that, the bead leaked air really bad and was hard to get sealed up with sealant. I'm confident this could have worked if I would have installed a tube first to seat the tape.

The winning method was using gorilla tape to seal the rim bed vice package tape. The extra thickness sealed the bead tight even without sealant and should provide a tighter fit to combat burping. I cut the orange tape 30mm wide, prelaminated it to the gorilla starting 50mm from the end, and started at the rim seam. Left 50mm of gorilla only on the trailing end also. It's a little cumbersome to prelaminate the tape, but I did it in quarter sections and it went pretty smoothly. It's important to get the gorilla tape centered on the rim as it really needs to be about 2mm wider. It's definitely takes a little more attention to detail compared to taping a dual wall rim since there is only a small strip of adhesive on each edge of the tape. I normally avoid using split tubes at all cost, but this is one application where I could go either way. I don't mess with floor pumps when mounting, so that's not a factor in my assesment.

The package tape strip was 25g and the gorilla tape strip is 60g. I'm using 4oz of sealant. The wheel with tire/sealant wieghed 2200g (hope front qr, Lasers, brass nips, stans valve, gorilla strip).


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

This was a test run, the orange tape is 37mm wide in this pic. I narrowed it down to 30. I think the cutouts are 22mm. if I had to do it again, I would probably go down the 26mm.


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## miles e (Jan 16, 2004)

ktm520 said:


> I couldn't really tell much difference in the profile between the RH and p35 without laying a square accross the tire. The RH had a profile height (from tip of side knobs to top of center tread) of 20mm and the p35 was 22mm at 20psi.


Excellent, thanks again!


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I weighed my Krampus on a more accurate scale today. Came in at 31lbs on the nose. Much better than the 31.5lbs I got on the other scale. It will definitely be under 30 with a new seatpost and converting to tubeless.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Just wondering if anyone with a medium Krampus could measure up the inside of the frame triangle to see how big a framebag would fit in there?


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## ironman13 (Aug 3, 2009)

have surly two diferent frames??? one whith fender and rack eyelets, and one whithout


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

very intersting; it took me a minute to notice that some of those bike you posted have two sets of eyelets. My small krampus has just the pair right on the end of the dropout. I wonder if maybe the top one is an early production run. I would have appreciated a few more eyelets, but not by much.

On the surly site, the frame pics don't have the extra one, but the complete pic looks like they might be on there, but can't say for sure.


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## ironman13 (Aug 3, 2009)

if you see surly pictures online , you see two versions, i like the version with


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Prototypes had additional rack mounts...I wish that feature was in the production frames too!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Prototypes had additional rack mounts...I wish that feature was in the production frames too!


+1 - they seem to have aimed it more as a straight up MTB like the KM than say the Ogre/Troll. Having an easy way to mount a rear rack would have been nice.


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## WMBigs (Jul 11, 2009)

What it that in the third pic? It has two cables coming out of it.
Thanks!


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

These can work, but a little more work to install the rack.

(Hopefully the pic works from my phone)


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> These can work, but a little more work to install the rack.
> 
> (Hopefully the pic works from my phone)












If I need to I'll use an OMM rack.

It's just that for $10 extra cost and zero impact on performance it would make so much more sense to just include rear rack mounts.

My first line of defence will be bikepacking soft bags.


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## 20.100 FR (Jan 13, 2004)

WMBigs said:


> What it that in the third pic? It has two cables coming out of it.
> Thanks!


IGH
Probably Rolholf


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## andr3wc (Mar 17, 2010)

So i haven't read through the entire thread...but I must say that for whatever reason I am attracted to this bike a lot. 

However, is it a viable single speed bike? Can you get it in single speed from surly or do you have to convert it? Or is it recommended to keep gears period?



Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

20.100 FR said:


> IGH
> Probably Rolholf


+1 - it's a Rohloff IGH.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

andr3wc said:


> So i haven't read through the entire thread...but I must say that for whatever reason I am attracted to this bike a lot.
> 
> However, is it a viable single speed bike? Can you get it in single speed from surly or do you have to convert it? Or is it recommended to keep gears period


From Surly...


Surlybikes.com said:


> Hub spacing is standard 100mm front and 135mm rear, with rear fork ends that accommodate a derailleur or singlespeed set up. Krampus features our Trip Guides for running full length derailleur housing and brake line.


Note the complete builds are 1x10... which is nice (no front d), so if you are looking for simplicity and gears, this is a great set-up. But SS is a conversion option or you could buy frame/fork and build out a SS from the get-go.


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## ironman13 (Aug 3, 2009)

yes , it is rohloff, i have one


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Does anybody know, or can anybody test to see if a Rabbit Hole and Knard will fit in a Park TS-2 truing stand with the extensions and upgraded calipers?


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## Akita man (Nov 21, 2012)

P35 with Knard fits mine no problem. I'd likely get a 4.0 in there.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Akita man said:


> P35 with Knard fits mine no problem. I'd likely get a 4.0 in there.


Thank you. I just picked up a TS-2 and wanted to make sure it'd work before I bought the extensions. If it didn't work, I have no problem taking the tire off or just using my TS-8 which works with the tire on.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

Stuck the Knard/RH in an older Fox F29 (circa 08-09?). It would need at least a 12mm travel limiter to keep the tire off the crown. Haven't put much thought into it, but dropping something plastic in the bottom of the lowers would do the trick. I don't know how this compares to newer forks, but there is no way I'd run this tire in an F29 without limiting the travel. That's just asking to get thrown over the bars.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Hey all, I have been following this thread, but don't remember if this question has gotten asked. How much room in the Krampus fork is there for an even wider tire? I'm just trying to anticipate whether Surly might come out with an even wider 29 inch tire.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

bluestatevirgin said:


> Hey all, I have been following this thread, but don't remember if this question has gotten asked. How much room in the Krampus fork is there for an even wider tire? I'm just trying to anticipate whether Surly might come out with an even wider 29 inch tire.


My fork measures almost 3.75 inches wide inside.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

I bet there will be a knobbier tire in the future. Running the axle slammed forward in the dropouts leaves essentially no room for a larger tire in the rear, and the bike climbs great like this, so I would'nt change the back to wider since I'd have to lengthen the rear end, but I would take knobbier. The front though, bring on the 29x3.5!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

PretendGentleman said:


> I bet there will be a knobbier tire in the future. Running the axle slammed forward in the dropouts leaves essentially no room for a larger tire in the rear, and the bike climbs great like this, so I would'nt change the back to wider since I'd have to lengthen the rear end, but I would take knobbier. The front though, bring on the 29x3.5!


Is there the width in the rear for a wider tire if the wheel is back in the dropouts a bit or is 3.0" pretty much the max back there?


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

vikb said:


> Is there the width in the rear for a wider tire if the wheel is back in the dropouts a bit or is 3.0" pretty much the max back there?


There's not too much more on mine. My tires measure at 3" exactly.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Just curious how you folks who have your Krampi rolling would describe your bikes compared to 29ers with suspension and skinny 2.1" tires?

For example would you say it rides like a rigid 29er, FS 29er with 1" of travel, etc..?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

vikb said:


> Just curious how you folks who have your Krampi rolling would describe your bikes compared to 29ers with suspension and skinny 2.1" tires?
> 
> For example would you say it rides like a rigid 29er, FS 29er with 1" of travel, etc..?


Rides like a Krampus


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## saltyman (Nov 21, 2009)

picked the krampus up....very happy with the build by dave at law cycles, good match of parts and more importantly im happy with the fitment.

despite the lack of a test ride im glad i stuck to my thoughts and got the medium.

18 mile shakedown in north berwick, great company and 11c and the sun shined all day!

i did manage a puncture at the end of the ride....only realised as we washed bikes down.....patch and stans in tubes now, so that should be ok from now on!

lots of pictures as usual.......


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## saltyman (Nov 21, 2009)

first thoughts are....its fast!

like people have mentioned, you pull away slow then the thing just flies along.....very impressed.

for a large wheeled bike it can be thrown around and the grip is superb, never slipped all day, the torque just pulls you along, mud clearance wasnt an issue even on the wet parts of farming tracks.

90% off road today and on hard packed tracks, the bike eats the smaller bumps to the point where you in a very comfortable place!

i didnt mess with pressures, 18psi in front and 20psi in rear.

i imagine 15-18psi will be awesome for rocky decents etc.

anyway....more pics.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

^Thanks for sharing and the great pics.


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## saltyman (Nov 21, 2009)




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## 1x1clyde (Oct 5, 2005)

Sedona + dropper post + Krampus = fun









last 3 days in Sedona, did a few different loops on the Krampus and a few different loops on my Intense Spider Comp...they were both a blast!


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## Radioinactive (Aug 2, 2011)

anyone mounted a knard on a 25mm rim?


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

saltyman said:


>


Notice anything suspicious in this photo? That's funny. Too bad they don't offer Krampus in a rainbow fade. lol


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## TSOXBHK (Jan 17, 2012)

*My Krampus*

Gunna do a angleset and 120 fork with normal 2.4 schwalbe tires for the summer. Such a fun bike.


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## TSOXBHK (Jan 17, 2012)

I have mine mounted on a blunt 35 with a 28mm internal i think. I run them tubeless with like 8 to 10lbs. I used 1 in gorilla and stans and it set up like a dream no problems at all so far.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Some observations from my last couple of weeks on the krampus

I bought mine to replicate the geometry of the bike I was riding. I went with the small based on ett. Also, I want my front wheel as much under me as possible so I can weight it for fast turns, so I stayed away from the medium that would have moved the wheel forward, but not necessarily changed my body position since I would have run a shorter stem. Also the super-wide bars that surly recommends won't work on our trails, they just don't have the clearance. My bars are 680mm wide and I hit the barcaps on trees regularly, not hard just enough to remind me I've reached the limits. For me this is a cross country bike with amazing traction! I'm 5'8" riding a small and running a 105mm stem. I could probably run a shorter stem, but I don't have one handy at the moment.

I've seen a lot of Krampi with the monkeynuts. I do not use them and prefer running my tire all the way forward. My x.7 triple derailleur has to be adjusted to not hit the tire, but it still works fine for the middle and outer ring positions. I'm about to buy a mr whirly to run 36-22 up front for rides in the mountains with multi-mile climbs. By running my tire all the way forward, the bike climbs great; moving it further back would definitely decrease traction for me. The caliper didn't line up well with my 180mm rotors; I had to put an additional washer under the front bolt of the caliper and could benefit slightly from a reduced height on the rear caliper (I could get there by going with a thiner connical washer and then adding a couple of washers to make up some of the difference), but it doesn't matter enough to make the change at this point.

the shorter wheelbase of choosing a smaller frame and running the wheel slammed forward in the dropouts helps keep the bike nimble.

tubeless doesn't work well for me with 27tpi tires. too much burping! someone who's real easy on parts could get away with it, but someone like that is probably not riding a krampus.

cross-laced wheels are holding up amazingly well! hex head nipples were important for getting them up to tension without damaging the nipples, but I'd say that's true about all 29er wheels using cassette hubs. I was somewhat lazy building the wheels, so I didn't spend too much time pre-stressing them; my plan was and still is to true them when they need it. I have been surprised that they still don't need any retrue after over 200 miles. Cross-lacing has mixed reviews and a lot of people complain that spoke tension is too low in various applications or that truing them is unpredictable(probably more of a problem with rims that have much wider offset drilling). I had no issued like this; they trued just like regular wheels, the spoke tension is high, etc. I would recommend this approach to everyone, but I do only have 200 miles on 'em, so the long term is obviously uncertain. Compared to 36 spoke, 4 cross p-35s my 32 spoke, 3 cross, cross-laced rabbit holes are much stiffer. I can really feel this when boosting little humps in the trail; my old wheels noticeably flexed, though less than the 32 spoke skinny rims they replaced, my cross-laced rabbit holes are far stiffer, which I really appreciate. I do wonder if a non-cross laced wheel would flex more and rub the chainstays. the tits on the tires rub the chainstays and based on my experience with the 36h p35s I thought hard pedaling would flex everything enough to cause rubbing, but surprisingly this has not been the case like it was trying to run a 2.4" tire in my old frame

Fat tires are great for small and medium bumps, but a suspension fork would still be nice. I'll have to wait until my budget grows or a cheaper fork is available that will fit the 3" tire.

chainline is one of the bigger issues with the bike. the middle ring position combined with a tripple combined with the biggest cog on the cassette puts the chain quite close to the tire. I don't think you would have much luck with a regular mountain double's inner ring; your f. der would likely rub the tire if you don't use the monkeynuts. Even running 2 gears in the outer position of my triple cranks, I took one of the smaller rings off the cassette and spaced the cassette towards the dropout to improve chainline. Even still, the easiest gear has more cross-chaining than I would prefer. I would really love to run a single speed hub that accepts 5+ gears off the 10sp cassette, but building another rear wheel is not in the current budget!


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## TSOXBHK (Jan 17, 2012)

PretendGentleman said:


> Some observations from my last couple of weeks on the krampus
> 
> I bought mine to replicate the geometry of the bike I was riding. I went with the small based on ett. Also, I want my front wheel as much under me as possible so I can weight it for fast turns, so I stayed away from the medium that would have moved the wheel forward, but not necessarily changed my body position since I would have run a shorter stem. Also the super-wide bars that surly recommends won't work on our trails, they just don't have the clearance. My bars are 680mm wide and I hit the barcaps on trees regularly, not hard just enough to remind me I've reached the limits. For me this is a cross country bike with amazing traction! I'm 5'8" riding a small and running a 105mm stem. I could probably run a shorter stem, but I don't have one handy at the moment.
> 
> ...


I tried not running the monkey nuts but there was major brake clearance issues. i could have spaced the front of the caliper up but the rear was so high that the rotor ran through the brake pad way to low. Iam 5 ft7 and running a 50m stem with 760 funn bars. the fit is alright but i would like to try a med with a 35 stem and my post alot lower so when its dropped its alot lower as its almost maxed out in the small frame. I am running x9 hubs laced to blunt 35 which i think are the same as p-35s. I built them up with straight gauge dt spokes. They seem to be pretty stiff to me so far. I have been running the 120 knard set up tubeless with about 8lbs in it. I do notice the side wall flex that you get when running a huge volume tire tubeless with low pressure. But the wheel itself feels about like my 26 did. I did all the research yesterday on running a 44m cane creek angle set and straight steer tube 120 fork. It should put the head angle some wear between 68 and 68.5 and steepen the seat tube angle a bit which i would gladly take. I am coming off a bike that head a 66 degree head angle and a 73 seattube angle. Cheers


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Can someone verify the offset of the Rabbit hole rims spoke holes?


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

vikb said:


> Can someone verify the offset of the Rabbit hole rims spoke holes?


http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/surly-krampus-802452-26.html#post10097983


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

vikb said:


> Can someone verify the offset of the Rabbit hole rims spoke holes?


Mine measure to be 7mm. 14mm CL to CL.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

me too....
my measurements of ERD are here...
Krampus. | drj0nswanderings


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Thanks for confirming the offset guys...:thumbsup:


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

Here is a quick shot of my new build. Just finished it up last night, heading to the trails now. I will post some better pics later


attachment by tim_w_sage, on Flickr


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

medium krampus. built with lots of XT, some xtr, a few king bits, some Paul components (it is wrong to have a bike that doesnt have at least one Paul part) watson cycles parkarino's wtb 'dh' tubes currently, 120 tpi knards and some Red Fang. 28lbs. fun.


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## saltyman (Nov 21, 2009)




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## vanjr (Mar 16, 2008)

well that sure puts things into perspective! put the fargo in the next group of pics!


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## gulljammer (Oct 15, 2010)

Hey Saltyman, couple quick questions: what size is the Moonlander? How tall are you and your inseam? Moonie or Krampus? Thanks in advance.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

Saw this on a group ride today. Owner said it was 27.5 lbs


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

saltyman said:


>


Great photo to show why sizing a Krampus by Eff TT is so important.....:thumbsup:


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## Tallfatboy (Mar 11, 2013)

Just finished building my krampug on p35 rims - cant wait to take the big girl out, though the snow is back so may have to go back to large marge at the weekend


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Did anybody buy the Krampus t-shirt when they bought their frameset or am I the only one?


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

PretendGentleman said:


> chainline is one of the bigger issues with the bike. the middle ring position combined with a tripple combined with the biggest cog on the cassette puts the chain quite close to the tire. I don't think you would have much luck with a regular mountain double's inner ring; your f. der would likely rub the tire if you don't use the monkeynuts. Even running 2 gears in the outer position of my triple cranks, I took one of the smaller rings off the cassette and spaced the cassette towards the dropout to improve chainline. Even still, the easiest gear has more cross-chaining than I would prefer. I would really love to run a single speed hub that accepts 5+ gears off the 10sp cassette, but building another rear wheel is not in the current budget!


I believe Surly pointed this out on their blog. Did you find something to the contrary?

http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/wherein_we_attempt_to_answer_your_krampus_questions

5. Can I run a front derailleur and a multiple ring crankset?

Yes and no. Here's where the "normal parts" and the "bigass tires" want to fight a little bit. We are going to spec the complete bike with a single ring up front and ten cogs in back. The single ring is the easy, cost-effective, and very neat way to run this. With a single ring you can run any mountain crankset you like that will work with the 73mm bb shell. Done and done.

You can also run a mountain double or triple crank if you like, but you'll be getting into some tire rub in the smaller gears. You can do a couple of things to counter that (same as you would on a Pug with Rolling Darryls, or on a Moonlander). You could live with the marginal amount of suckiness that would bring to your existence, or you could rid yourself of the smaller cogs of your cassette and run some spacers behind the remaining larger cogs. That will give you access to the climbey gears at the expense of the speedy ones. I cannot remember the last time I was in a 44-11, but that's just me.

Thirdly (or C) you can run an offset double crank not at all unlike our Mr. Whirly offset double (again, like the Neck Romancer or Moonlander) or the new O.D. crank that Bob so deftly explained on Tuesday of this week.


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

click this thread:
http://forums.mtbr.com/surly/krampus-builds-post-em-here-839163.html

member here is running standard Shimano XT double cranks with 10 speed cassette, no tyre rub, about 5mm clearance on biggest rear/smallest front combo.


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## saltyman (Nov 21, 2009)

gulljammer said:


> Hey Saltyman, couple quick questions: what size is the Moonlander? How tall are you and your inseam? Moonie or Krampus? Thanks in advance.


6ft with 32" inside leg....moony is a 20" large and I opted for the medium krampus to allow more room offroad....plus the taller wheel will raise the height a tad....as in my pics.

I use 780mm bars and a 400mm straight post with a 20mm setback, there's still 180mm of post in seat tube. its a perfect fit despite looking like a bmx when I first seen it!

I used my moonlander for everything last year, but wanted to give it a break this year, hence the Fargo and krampus.

The krampus is like a mans bmx....huge fun and very fast, with traction and those 29er+ wheels roll over anything.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

renegade44 said:


> I believe Surly pointed this out on their blog. Did you find something to the contrary?
> 
> Blog | Surly Bikes


nope, the idea was to add more info about specific combinations


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## kobe-wan (Aug 30, 2009)

Please don't flame because I didn't read the 968 posts in this thread.... How big is the difference in feel and what are the pros/cons between the Krampus and a steel HT 29er with fairly wide rims (Flow) and 2.25/2.4 tires?


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

well, id say its different enough to be considered a different species. that is qualified by having ridden P35's, 50mm snow rims in 29 and 650b. krampus wheels are cool....and it is the 3" tyre that does it when mated to the 50mm rim.


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## fleanutz (Jan 29, 2004)

Large, bout 28 pounds.


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## octavius (Sep 26, 2008)

fleanutz said:


> Large, bout 28 pounds.


Wow! Looks great!


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## godsey (Aug 26, 2005)

Based on a bunch of online reviews and the posts in this thread that mention ride characteristics, it seems like the Krampus is most often experienced as a fast, heavyish bike that can feel bouncy or jarring depending on terrain and riding style. 

Makes sense, but I'm curious about how folks who have ridden a Krampus on single or double track would describe their experience of the bike on a subjectively comparative scale from superlight FS racing 29er to stock Moonlander. 

Within that range, where is the Krampus in terms of handling, comfort, ride position, etc? How might component choices or riding conditions affect the ride experience and the comparison?


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## tswg (Aug 30, 2007)

For the record, I found a guy selling a 2009 Fox F29 RLC 100mm (9mm drop-outs) here in Calgary. I put the Rabbit Hole - Knard combo in there and it did NOT fit. The tire pressed into the fork brace.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

the key thing with the ride of the krampus is the laid back, steer from the hips, fun geometry, the fact it feels like it is way lighter than its ~28 lbs, and the 10-12 PSI FAT tyres, conforming to the trail. this last bit is why it feels like a fat bike, just not quite as much, and is why it gets away with fast rolling low tread tyres yet gets adequate traction. No it is not a suspension bike, but you can slam into small to mid sized stuff WAY faster than on a normal 29er and still have control. There is a down side, and that is when it comes time to climb, the weight is definitely felt. again, not as much as on a fat or loaded bike, but you can feel it...BUT the wheels are not THAT heavy (950g tyres/700g odd rim/strip) +/- tubes, so its not that big a deal...just grow bigger legs. 

It is not the same as anything else out there. but it is *viably and purposefully* different not just different for different's sake....

i like it. i will continue to love my jones/vertigo bikes i will get a full fat bike and ride them all.

oh, and in answer specifically, i would not say it is bouncy or jarring....though it isnt damped like a suspension forked/frame bike....tyre pressure is important...and it is considerably more nimble than you might assume...it does not get held up in tight, woods riding at all.


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## Big Gags (Jan 8, 2013)

Put down a deposit today for an XL Krampus that is apparently a black frame (the guy from Dirtworks said that it was the last XL available in the shipment due to hit Australia in late April).......I can't wait!!!

I haven't ridden a mtb with gears for about 3 years or so and I will see how I go - might end up building up a SS rear wheel so that I have some options!!

I will probably end up leaving everything stock to start with but will eventually upgrade as things wear out......am thinking that the second set of tyres will be the 120 tpi versions which I have read will save about 300g per end!! I might also swap out the stock seatpost and stem for Thompson and then once the drivetrain wears out I will probably look at replacing it with X9 or XX.

Think I will end up selling a couple of my 26" bikes as I pretty much don't ride them anymore!!!


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

dRjOn said:


> the key thing with the ride of the krampus is the laid back, steer from the hips, fun geometry...
> oh, and in answer specifically, i would not say it is bouncy or jarring....though it isnt damped like a suspension forked/frame bike....tyre pressure is important...and it is considerably more nimble than you might assume...it does not get held up in tight, woods riding at all.


I appreciate your use of the word damped where many others would use dampened! Reducing the amplitude of periodic motion is totally different from adding water.

I don't feel like the krampus is that different. I definitely don't identify with the steer from the hips, laid back part of it. Then again I bought a small based on ett and am using a 100mm stem like my old 29er. Anticipating the geometry is problematic due to the kinked seattube, which means that as you lengthen your seatpost, the st angle is more laid back (judging from the fudge they built into the single number st angle on the surly geometry page. Consequently riding the small should be more laid back. Regardless, when I go through tight single track, I go fast and my handlebars are swinging this way and that: my hips are just dodging tree trunks.

I feel like the bike feels very similar to my old gravity 29er, but it has better traction. The fat tires are not nearly as plush on big hits as the 100mm recon air fork I was running before. Small bumps, however, just disappear. medium bumps are somewhere in the middle. rear tire hits are a bit softer than with 2.25" tires on a hardtail.

Using fat tires as suspension has been a learning experience for me. I've already cut the sidewalls on both tires at the bead and I've dented the rear rabbit hole pretty darned good: I'm not super impressed with the dent-proofness of rabbitholes, but they do seem laterally strong. One of the big differences about using tires for suspension is that you can't go by the old rule that you should bottom your shock out once or so on every long ride. In fact if you bottom out your tire suspension system, you tend to damage tires and rims. Consequently, you have to run higher tire pressure than you would if bottoming out were less costly. I ride very aggressively so this means running pretty darned hard tires.

Regardless, turning and climbing traction is awesome. My krampus weighs in at a hefty 33.5 lbs and its not slow, not for me.


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

tswg said:


> For the record, I found a guy selling a 2009 Fox F29 RLC 100mm (9mm drop-outs) here in Calgary. I put the Rabbit Hole - Knard combo in there and it did NOT fit. The tire pressed into the fork brace.


Someone did mention that the 15QR gives move clearance. Even with the 15QR it is close on top.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

(see my next post)


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

PretendGentleman said:


> I appreciate your use of the word damped where many others would use dampened! Reducing the amplitude of periodic motion is totally different from adding water.


I take issue with your statement. There are other liquids besides water that will dampen things. Like when your suspension fork's seals blow, you WILL dampen your floor with oil.

Really looking forward to trying out a Knard. I think Surly (again!) proved themselves an outlier. The rest of the cycling world is rushing to catch up on the 29+ concept!

Los


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

PretendGentleman said:


> Anticipating the geometry is problematic due to the kinked seattube, which means that as you lengthen your seatpost, the st angle is more laid back (judging from the fudge they built into the single number st angle on the surly geometry page. Consequently riding the small should be more laid back. Regardless, when I go through tight single track, I go fast and my handlebars are swinging this way and that: my hips are just dodging tree trunks.





renegade44 said:


> Say what? The angle does not change. The upper portion (where your seat post is) is a constant angle, which means the effective angle is always constant.
> 
> Sure, there is a kink in the lower part of the seat tube, but that has no effect on the angle of the seat post. The angle between horizontal and the seat post never changes no matter how much you lengthen the seat post. unless you think your seat tube is causing that kink to straighten if an extra long seat tube is inserted into it. :eekster:
> 
> Seat post angle is basically capturing the angle of an imaginary line from the bottom bracket to the saddle interface relative to horizontal. Kink or no kink, this is unaffected by seat post height or frame size.


Looking at the geometry specs of Surly's two "shaped" seat tube bikes:








Krampus:









You can see that the KM's seat tube actually points thru the center of the BB, and therefore is just like a standard bike.

The Krampus is different. I think PG's point is that the spec they give for the seatpost angle is not the angle the seat rises at. You can see how the ETT line doesn't actually follow any part of the seattube, and unlike the KM, the angle given is of the base section of the seattube, which then bends back and does not reorient. Based on a line from BB center, the actual seat angle does change with height.

OTOH, I use geometry figures to pick out a frame - but then I adjust it to fit me using seat position (fore/aft/up/down) and bar position. All the hype about how a bike handles (with the exception of head angle and fork rake - but let's not get sidetracked there) is not based on how you are fitted to the bike, but on some random expectation.

My plan is to lay hands on a pair of 29+ Knards and mount them on some Flows (25mm-ish) and slide them into my Karate Monkey just to enjoy something wider than 2.35". And see how things change based on a known geometry.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

octavius said:


> Wow! Looks great!


+1 - that's pretty sweet...:thumbsup:


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

wadester said:


> I think PG's point is that the spec they give for the seatpost angle is not the angle the seat rises at. You can see how the ETT line doesn't actually follow any part of the seattube, and unlike the KM, the angle given is of the base section of the seattube, which then bends back and does not reorient. Based on a line from BB center, the actual seat angle does change with


So looked at this closer, and yes, the single kink does cause slight changes to effective seat tube angle as you move the seat post. (The KM has two kinks, which cancel each other out).

I made some scaled sketches, and the deviation is minor - about 0.5 degrees variation. Most riders will be pretty close to the listed angle of 72.5. If you slam your post, the angle gets higher. Raising the post, lowers the angle.

So taller riders will have a slacker seat tube angle, but the deviation is pretty minor.

Although, I'd guess the kink is always the same distance from the bottom bracket no matter the frame size. So assuming your saddle to bottom bracket distance is constant between frame sizes (because your inseam is constant), then your effective seat tube angle will be constant for you no matter size frame you ride.

I'd also add that sliding your saddle fore/aft on the rails also changes the effective seat tube angle, so I wouldn't worry to much about the slight change in the Krampus frame angle.


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## Rolling In Peace (Jul 20, 2012)

fleanutz said:


> Large, bout 28 pounds.


Very nice! Do you have more photos from different angles?


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Nice bikes
What is the correct headset. Seems I can only find top an bottom seperate. Conversion?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

rjedoaks said:


> Nice bikes
> What is the correct headset. Seems I can only find top an bottom seperate. Conversion?


This one would work:

FSA Orbit DL 1.5R Reducing Headset > Components > Headsets and Spacers > Headsets | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop


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## fleanutz (Jan 29, 2004)

Here are a few more


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Nice bike/LRG? How tall are you
Vicb thanks Price is right


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

Took my krampus out for a spin today


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## fleanutz (Jan 29, 2004)

Yes, size large. 

775mm seat post height, 100mm stem.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

fleanutz said:


> Here are a few more


Hey flea, what is the weight? I got my krampus down to 26 lb 3 oz. And the only light stuff is carbon seatpost and bars. Pretty happy with that.

Solid build btw. How do you like her?


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## fleanutz (Jan 29, 2004)

Weight is around 28 lbs. My only real lightweight parts are the post and saddle; everything else is alloy. 

No "real" ride yet, though I'm hopeful for this weekend. Feels good riding around the yard!


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Very nice Flea, looks really good !


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## Go Kart Motzart (Jan 2, 2004)

Had mine out a couple times. Fun bike.


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

Go Kart-- what bar is that?

I had my first hard singletrack ride on mine today; I'd done a couple of others but hadn't had the opportunity to really let it go.

My impressions: Surly really nailed the geometry and wheel size combo. It rides smooth and fast for a relatively heavy bike. I think there's something to the 29+ form factor and I hope it catches on; I agree entirely with the early descriptions of it making small bumps disappear, but it's still a rigid. I felt like it was more comfortable as a rigid than my Mukluk, probably because of the wheel size. Like a fat bike, the ride quality is extremely sensitive to tire pressure. Great traction, of course. I guess I'd like it to be a bit lighter, and I'd really like to try a suspension fork, but I'm going to wait for more beta testing before buying one.


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## Rolling In Peace (Jul 20, 2012)

fleanutz said:


> Here are a few more


Nice one mate! Call it 29+ and SS envy, but I think you have one of the best looking builds on the forum.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

ktm520 said:


> I'm using orange Duck Tape brand tape for the cosmetic layer (sticky side out). Initialy, I tried package tape over the top of that to seal the rim bed, but in a rush , I broke the cardinal rule and didn't install a tube first to fully seat the tape. Besides that, the bead leaked air really bad and was hard to get sealed up with sealant. I'm confident this could have worked if I would have installed a tube first to seat the tape.
> 
> The winning method was using gorilla tape to seal the rim bed vice package tape. The extra thickness sealed the bead tight even without sealant and should provide a tighter fit to combat burping. I cut the orange tape 30mm wide, prelaminated it to the gorilla starting 50mm from the end, and started at the rim seam. Left 50mm of gorilla only on the trailing end also. It's a little cumbersome to prelaminate the tape, but I did it in quarter sections and it went pretty smoothly. It's important to get the gorilla tape centered on the rim as it really needs to be about 2mm wider. It's definitely takes a little more attention to detail compared to taping a dual wall rim since there is only a small strip of adhesive on each edge of the tape. I normally avoid using split tubes at all cost, but this is one application where I could go either way. I don't mess with floor pumps when mounting, so that's not a factor in my assesment.
> 
> The package tape strip was 25g and the gorilla tape strip is 60g. I'm using 4oz of sealant. The wheel with tire/sealant wieghed 2200g (hope front qr, Lasers, brass nips, stans valve, gorilla strip).


Udate: This setup worked for a couple weeks and then I went out in the garage after the bike had been sitting for 2 days and it was flat. Air/sealant was leaking under the tape and coming out through the rim cutouts. Long story short, the standard 2" (48mm actual) gorilla tape isn't wide enough to fully cover the bead seat. The tape shifted enough under pressure that it pulled out from under the tire bead and a path for the leak formed. After I pulled the tape off, this happened in more than one spot. So, the fix was getting a roll of 3" tape and trimming the tape to 52mm wide, which netted enough tape on each bead to go halfway up the rim lip, no chance for the tape to pull from under the bead.

Apparently, the 48mm strip was probably leaking from the start. When I mounted the tire with the 52mm strip, it barely even leaked without sealant. I also made sure not to put more than 20psi in the tire when mounted to keep from over stressing the tape.

As an expirement, I tried a split tube without any form of a rim strip and there is no way (obviously) that this would work. Don't know what I was thinking there. Barely got any pressure in the tire before the tube excessively bulged through the cutouts. Looked pretty cool though.


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

Got a wicked pinch flat at about 11 psi on my second hard ride (I weigh 155). Going to have to make sure I've got 12+ next ride. Has anybody else had difficulty getting the tires onto the rims? Changing the flat was a bear.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

My initial impression -- This maybe the perfect bike for West Michigan. It does 2 things very well that we have lots of - sand and roots.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

It's a tight fit on mine, but entirely doable. Nothing like some Conti road tires I've dealt with.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Go Kart Motzart said:


> Had mine out a couple times. Fun bike.


+ 1 the fun part. I was out for my maiden voyage on some local, fairly tame trails with my 9 yr old son. That is my overwhelming impression we had a blast now he wants one.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

+2 on being fun. Surly really knocked the ball out of the park with the geometry of this frameset. It has an awesome balance point for wheelies and it manuals very easy too. While it is heavy and harder to bunny hop as high as the other bikes I own, it's still a total blast to ride. If anyone is reading this who hasn't ridden one, do what you can to get a test ride


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sanjuanswan said:


> Has anybody else had difficulty getting the tires onto the rims? Changing the flat was a bear.


On my Pugsley with 4" tires and 65mm rims you really have to get the tire beads into the valley of the rim or they are super hard to get on and off. If you take the time to push the beads down into the center of the rims you can put the tires on with your hands.

I've used the same technique on "normal" MTB rims/tires with success.

It's worth a try on the RH/Knards if they are a hassle going on.


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

i went tubeless on Friday with the 120tpi knard and rabbit hole rim, standard surly rim strips, 24" schwalbe split tube, no foam at all, i just used a co2 cannister and aired straight up, i only gave it a small burst too, i managed to get both tyres aired up with 1 small cannister.
i then let the air out, beads held fine, stans in the valves and then aired up again with floor pump
haven't ridden it yet but holding air for about 4 days now, no leaks.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I can finally contribute to this thread. I rode a Krampus today at a demo day for fat bikes. I first rode a Pugsly and had fun. Then I asked to ride the Krampus that was against the fence... It wasn't really a demo bike. It belonged to the guy that was running the bikeshop demoing the bikes. 
He let me take it for a spin. WOW!!!! 
Coolest bike I think I've ever ridden. His is super tricked out with Ti hardware and very light parts, so it's a ringer-superbike. 
My fatbike plans are on hold. I'm getting one of these.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

NYrr496 said:


> My fatbike plans are on hold. I'm getting one of these.


A Pugsley with a 2nd Krampus wheelset is a cool idea that gets you full fatbike floatation when you need it and 29er+ wheels when you want more Krampus-esque fun.

The HA is 1% slacker on the Krampus and the the fork rake is 4mm longer...so not exactly the same geo, but not totally different.

Just an idea.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

godsey said:


> Based on a bunch of online reviews and the posts in this thread that mention ride characteristics, it seems like the Krampus is most often experienced as a fast, heavyish bike that can feel bouncy or jarring depending on terrain and riding style.
> 
> Makes sense, but I'm curious about how folks who have ridden a Krampus on single or double track would describe their experience of the bike on a subjectively comparative scale from superlight FS racing 29er to stock Moonlander.
> 
> Within that range, where is the Krampus in terms of handling, comfort, ride position, etc? How might component choices or riding conditions affect the ride experience and the comparison?


My initial(limited) impression is that you give up very little in the way of speed or nimbleness to a racing hard tail 29er but the krampus just cruises over roots or other obstacles where you would normally expect to get "held up" and have to work to keep your momentum. It definitely works better the faster you go. There is a nasty little set of roots on a local trail that I normally ride going down hill just because it so hard to keep your momentum up. Yesterday I decided to ride them going up, so I got a lot of speed going fully expecting not to make it, I just flew over it. It was Eye opening. Like any other bike I am sure it has it drawbacks, but for now I am going to have fun finding its limits.


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## Go Kart Motzart (Jan 2, 2004)

The bike is way faster than you would ever think possible. People buying this or thinking of this as a "fat bike" are barking up the wrong tree. This is a fast, fun, laid back geometry bike with all of the wonderful benefits of heavy wide rubber. Lots of traction, lots of inertia and lots of gyro. It rails the downhills.


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## fleanutz (Jan 29, 2004)

Agree with most other ride reviews. 

This thing kills it. The right air pressure and you don't really feel the small stuff. Kind of like a softtail feel in back and an early 90s suspension fork in front (~40 travel). 

It really does excel going downhill if you're willing to let it run a bit. Hard impacts are still felt, so you have to be ready for that. That big ol' front tire really does wonders though. 

Traction is pretty crazy. I haven't been able to make it break loose yet (but only one ride this far - another this Thurs hopefully). 

Lastly this thing will put some serious hair on your chest too. I'm running mine SS with a 35/22 here in central NC, where we have nasty punchy climbs, roots, rocks, and a good variety of stuff. I was about 1mph slower than normal at a higher heart rate than I normally would at a comparable pace on a "normal 29er". I'm using the 27tpi tires with split tube rim strips and a 29er tube. Lots of weight. But my regular steel 29er SS will feel hyper light after riding the Kpus a while. 

Very fun bike, kind of reminds me of my feelings when I first went SS and trails were "new" for a while.


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## Go Kart Motzart (Jan 2, 2004)

27?! Wow, I've kept mine in the low teens. I would guess 27 in that much volume would be about like running 50-60 in a normal size tire.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I rode one for 15 minutes last Sunday and I'm still giddy.


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## fleanutz (Jan 29, 2004)

Go Kart Motzart said:


> 27?! Wow, I've kept mine in the low teens. I would guess 27 in that much volume would be about like running 50-60 in a normal size tire.


My tires are the heavy 27 tpi ones, not the 120s.

Not sure about tire pressure, but definitely not over 20psi for me I'm sure.


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## Go Kart Motzart (Jan 2, 2004)

Oh sorry, fleaz. I read your post too quick...


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## fleanutz (Jan 29, 2004)

No worries brother. It's all about enjoying the ride!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Had a chance to weigh some 120tpi Knards recently:

- 947g
- 939g

Just thought I'd share in case anyone was keeping track of actual weights.

The only mention of Knard weights I could find on the Surly site was from back i Aug 2012 and they were talking 820g for the 120tpi tires. That was for some pre-production rubber I assume and they ended up going heavier.

Blog | Surly Bikes


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

vikb said:


> A Pugsley with a 2nd Krampus wheelset is a cool idea that gets you full fatbike floatation when you need it and 29er+ wheels when you want more Krampus-esque fun.
> 
> The HA is 1% slacker on the Krampus and the the fork rake is 4mm longer...so not exactly the same geo, but not totally different.
> 
> Just an idea.


I am patiently awaiting the first Krampug/Krampus ride comparisons...but what I should really do is get my own damn RH/Knards and put them on my own damn Pug.


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## Flat Again??? (Dec 24, 2012)

buddhak said:


> I am patiently awaiting the first Krampug/Krampus ride comparisons...but what I should really do is get my own damn RH/Knards and put them on my own damn Pug.


I built up a Rabbit Hole/Knard front wheel for my Karate Monkey about a week ago. We are having a late winter here in Michigan, so I got a chance to try it on a light, crusty snow and it is surprisingly excellent under those conditions--grippy and fast.

I also own a pug and my thought is that the rabbit hole/knard combo might make an excellent choice on the Pugsley even during some winter rides--like after a trail becomes packed from traffic a few days after a snow.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

For those waiting on complete builds, my LBS told me today that they are now delayed until Mid-April. I've had my order in since last Sept. *sigh*


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## TSOXBHK (Jan 17, 2012)

I have been running blunt 35s with gorilla tape, stans and knard 120s for about 3 weeks now and got some miles on the bike. I have about 12psi in the tires when riding single track any lower and my bad line choice becomes rim dings but no burping of any pressure or flats yet and the blunts have held up very well with the rim couple of rim dings i have had. I did ride it at around 8psi in the snow and it worked but felt weird. I am coming off a aggressive am bike to this bike. I think I am going to have to run a fork on it for the summer. Has anybody tried x fusion with a knard yet? I also want to try a carbon bar to see if it helps with the ride. I did a longer 30 mile ride on it monday and had some serious hand fatigue after a couple of hours in the saddle. All and all such a fun bike. With a fork I would consider this to be more of a am hardtail than a fat bike any day. FUN.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

vikb said:


> That could be a new tire or maybe Salsa will release a lighter AL 29+ bike. Maybe both.


I emailed Salsa and they had this to say:

"We have no plans at this point to enter the 29+ market. We are concentrating our resources toward pushing fatbikes to new levels of awesome"


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

hirschmj said:


> "We have no plans at this point to enter the 29+ market. We are concentrating our resources toward pushing fatbikes to new levels of awesome"


those who consider 29+ a new level of awesomeness in fat bikes might find this to be a bit of an oxymoronic statement

Nonetheless a 170mm o.l.d. hub mated to a rabbit hole on the back of a mukluk would make for quite a ride.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

PretendGentleman said:


> those who consider 29+ a new level of awesomeness in fat bikes might find this to be a bit of an oxymoronic statement
> 
> Nonetheless a 170mm o.l.d. hub mated to a rabbit hole on the back of a mukluk would make for quite a ride.


That is pretty funny since they're all the same root company anyway (Salsa, Surly, 45 North and more). Bizarre.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Posting this here for those of you who may not have seen this thread and also curious if anyone else has had an issue with their Knards? http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/knard-tire-failure-841862.html


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

You can win a Krampus at this link:

WIN A SURLY KRAMPUS!!! | FAT-BIKE.COM

If you are willing to dress up in a costume.

I think you also get some Rabbit Hole rims and Knard tires, but I stopped reading closely after the part about dressing up...


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

vikb said:


> You can win a Krampus at this link:
> 
> WIN A SURLY KRAMPUS!!! | FAT-BIKE.COM
> 
> ...


I think those from Teutonic countries have a bit of an unfair advantage here. I assume in Germany there are entire boutiques dedicated to Krampus costumes...

Los


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sslos said:


> I think those from Teutonic countries have a bit of an unfair advantage here. I assume in Germany there are entire boutiques dedicated to Krampus costumes...
> 
> Los


+1 - You are probably right. The Krampus will end up in Germany. It probably belongs there! :thumbsup:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My LBS hooked me up with some Surly Knard rubber so I checked to see if it would work in my Rockshox Reba RLT 29er fork.

This is a Stan's Flow rim with 120tpi Knard at ~18psi with a tube in it.










It fits and rotates fine. The rubber "feelers" are touching on top and sides.










Some folks have been shaving their forks to fit big rubber and I haven't heard of one breaking because of that. Having said that remind your lawyer that I did not recommend this approach...:nono:










I took all the air out of the fork and compressed it as much as I could with body weight and didn't get close to the crown touching the rubber.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

^
How the f did you get this to fit?? My friend's exact fork with flows and ardents rub slightly when turning. It looks like you have ample room there.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

thickfog said:


> ^
> How the f did you get this to fit?? My friend's exact fork with flows and ardents rub slightly when turning. It looks like you have ample room there.












I didn't do anything other than throw the wheel in the fork. The stanchion brace is pretty thick so you could probably remove 1mm or 2mm if you were daring and you'd have enough clearance to ride.

It works as is, but there isn't much room to spare.

I didn't think it would work, but I figured what the heck I had access to the parts I might as well check.










Photos in this post is same fork and wheel with 2.4" Racing Ralphs.


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## tswg (Aug 30, 2007)

Vik, is that 9 mm or 15 mm thru-axel fork?


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Well, keep us updated vik.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

tswg said:


> Vik, is that 9 mm or 15 mm thru-axel fork?












9mm QR fork. I'm using a DT Swiss 9mm through axle RWS skewer if that matters.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

thickfog said:


> Well, keep us updated vik.


This was just a test fit. I don't plan on running a Knard in my 29er. I'm not quite up for modding the stanchion brace at this point and the clearance isn't quite there for my comfort zone without shaving a couple millimetres off.

Somebody else with a Reba RLT might be braver.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

vikb, would you be able to run a very light "test ride" with the knard in your driveway? Maybe compress the suspension going while riding very slow to see if you have clearance issues..


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> vikb, would you be able to run a very light "test ride" with the knard in your driveway? Maybe compress the suspension going while riding very slow to see if you have clearance issues..


The bike is in pieces at the moment, but you can see the suspension compressed in a pic above where I took the air out of the fork. The clearance at the stanchion brace is pretty tight. I'm also running narrow rims compared to Rabbit Holes. With RHs you might not have enough lateral clearance.

What's cool is that based on this Reba test fit and the Fox Float 29 tests someone posted earlier if a suspension company wanted to make a 29+ fork they aren't that far off with existing products. A few tweaks and both RS and Fox would have some production 29+ compatible forks. :thumbsup:

BTW - when I get the bike back together I'll run the test for you and post something.


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

Took the krampus out to the local pump track today. Felt pretty stable, but I won't be trading in my BMX bike any time soon


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## hdparrish (Jan 24, 2008)

Great pic, Tim!


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

vikb, what model year is that reba fork you have? I've got two of them, one an '11 and the other an '09, both qr's, and the knard won't even fully seat in the drops before it hits the bridge. Comparing pictures, it looks the bridge is shaped very differently on your fork. A 2.4 Ardent on a p35 has similar clearance in my Reba's compared to a Knard in yours. If it doen't hit the crown at full compression, I'd run it.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

ktm520 said:


> vikb, what model year is that reba fork you have?


Here is the label from my Reba's box. It was bought on sale in Dec '11.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

That's crazy. Maybe the forks aren't different. The newer fork I have may be a '10 though. Oh, I just realized you have the Knard on a skinny rim but I didn't think it would make that much difference. The Knard is on a Rabbit Hole in the picture above.


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## LBIkid (Mar 16, 2007)

Anyone care to compare the Krampus to a Jones? Slack angles aren't too different (69.5/72.5 Krampus; 70/72 Jones). I've read that the Krampus "steers from the hips" as does the Jones. Obviously, the Krampus is designed to accept a sus fork, when one becomes available, and the Jones is not.

Does anyone here have ride time on both bikes and care to provide a comparison? Please


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

errr...i have a jones and a krampus....they are not really similar. the jones is kind of lower and shorter front centre...it has some similar angles, but thats not enough to make the ride the same....im not super clear how to put into words the difference....

lets see: if i only ever went into super tight woods type riding id take the jones for sure. it is so easy to take around spectacularly tight trails...body english is translated without delay.

the krapmus is like jones bigger, burlier brother. might not just quite get round the corners as easily, but if there were any more open or rocky sections, he'd defo catch up in a hurry....

thats not to say the krampus is bad on tight woods trails not at all! better than most 29ers i have ridden...(i was on tight woodsy trails for 2 1/2 hours today on the krampus, and *never* felt it was an issue) its just the jones is telepathic...

dunno if that helps?


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## KeviChe (Jan 5, 2012)

I own a Jones, Ive never ridden a Krampus. Though this weekend I mounted a Knard on the front end.

I agree with drJon, the Jones is the best bike iver ever ridden off road. I did notice on tight switch back and tight corners it took a little more turning radius than before with my Hans Dampf 2.35.

That being said the Knard is here to stay on the front of my bike. The amount momentum and ease I can ride over obstacles is amazing. It was great before but I believe I have found my sweet spot. It reminds me of the first time I rode with a quality suspension fork, only a lot better.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

How do you guys like the super wide bars on the Krampus? I'm running 710 width on mine, which is much wider than anything else I've ever ridden. I just got a bar on a trade that's 780 wide and I want to try it out. I'm not sure if my cable housing will be long enough, though, but I also thought about cutting it to 750 and trying that. Do the super wide bars do much for you guys? Or do you run regular width? I'm quite happy with 710, but am curious to what you guys think on going wider.


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## LBIkid (Mar 16, 2007)

dRjOn said:


> errr...i have a jones and a krampus....they are not really similar. the jones is kind of lower and shorter front centre...it has some similar angles, but thats not enough to make the ride the same....im not super clear how to put into words the difference....
> 
> lets see: if i only ever went into super tight woods type riding id take the jones for sure. it is so easy to take around spectacularly tight trails...body english is translated without delay.
> 
> ...


That does help. I owned a Jones for about a year (recently traded the frameset because I had suspension-envy). I'm still undecided whether it was a good move or not. Ideally, I'd own a Jones + a slack HT, but right now it is not in the cards. I'm looking at the Krampus as being similar from the standpoint of having relaxed geometry and accepting bigger tires than a normal 29er frame. And most of all, I never once had a ride on the Jones where I didn't smile.

So if the Krampus is slack, can run bigger tires, and gives me that "big kid" feeling, it may just be what I'm looking for. (It also doesn't hurt that it seems pretty versatile, or at least future-proof).


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

yeah, the wide bars are interesting...for some reason i do get the occasional tug from the wheel, maybe just the gyroscopic effect of such a large mass so far from hub cf a normal 29er? dunno...the angles/trail are not funky at all...but im so happy with jones bars i went from wider watson parkarinos back to jones with an 80mm stem and am still happy with the steering behaviour...i do think that wider and shorter suits the krampus though.

LBI kid....you would be very happy on either im sure....the Krampus really is a versatile beast....and it does just make you smile....jones bikes do too....different but the smile is the viral part!

i reckon it wont be long before jeff brings a 29+ compatible rear end to his frames....


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Just switched out my krampus front end for a salsa enabler and a 4.8" bud on rolling darryl rim. The overall front end drops about an inch, steepening the ht by maybe 1 degree. It rides great and the extra cush is welcome. Just finished a 15 mile ride and happy enough to leave it on for the time being. I wish I didn't have to give up the paintjob on the front fork though.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

PretendGentleman said:


> Just switched out my krampus front end for a salsa enabler and a 4.8" bud on rolling darryl rim. The overall front end drops about an inch, steepening the ht by maybe 1 degree. It rides great and the extra cush is welcome. Just finished a 15 mile ride and happy enough to leave it on for the time being. I wish I didn't have to give up the paintjob on the front fork though.


Pics or....


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## vanjr (Mar 16, 2008)

Go Kart Motzart said:


> The bike is way faster than you would ever think possible. People buying this or thinking of this as a "fat bike" are barking up the wrong tree. This is a fast, fun, laid back geometry bike with all of the wonderful benefits of heavy wide rubber. Lots of traction, lots of inertia and lots of gyro. It rails the downhills.


But up the hills.....?


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

*KramBud*



Slow Danger said:


> Pics or....


yes yes, of course!

and that's a bleach bottle fender because its been raining a lot, fyi. just enough to keep mud from splattering through the gap that reveals my crack, between my camelbak and seat.

This is my small krampus. I'm 5'8" and chose the small based on ett. The smaller wheelbase also seemed like a plus. I've had a ton of fun on this bike in tight singletrack and fast open sections too. I am aware that I could flip my stem and take a good bit off the steerer tube, but I simply refuse to do that. Maybe someday...

The bud gives lots of cushion and is awesome for slowing you down and making ridiculously tight turns. Just lean on it and see what happens. Of course it will still slip on a wet root running parallel to your route. I think that the advantage of this setup over, say, a moonlander is that the pedaling efficiency of the 29+ is probably a good bit better. I have maybe 300 miles on the frame and now 15 or so miles on this setup. Will put in another 10 to 25 tonight, depending on how I feel.



























I'm actually sort of digging the coordination between the seatpost and the fork.
The steepening of the seattubeangle is also good for the thomson seatpost, which was tilted as far forward as possible, but just barely not enough. I love thomson posts, but why are they so anti slack seattube angle?

Update: just did a 30 mile ride and I'm still loving this setup. It might be a bit more sluggish, but it's easy on the wrists and fun in the muck!


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Nice
If I remember correctly the Thomson clamp has a front and rear position. Might want to check that . Doesn't sound right. On the other hand, you probably know that already.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I went ahead and installed the wide bars today while I had some time. Damn are they wide! Cable housings are *just* long enough, but I'm going to try it like this for now. I know of a few places on my local trails where these bars will be a few inches too wide to fit through, but that's why I've mastered the wheelie  I'll cut these down if I need a little more clearance. I also chopped a little more off my steerer tube and added carbon spacers and aluminum deraulleur pullies. Decided to add a bit of bling; seatpost clamp, grip lockrings and wagon wheel top cap are on their way.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

heh! off topic in some ways but i just followed a wee button that popped up saying i had received a +ve rep, for a different thread.. there is a list of previous repping (if thats the right term. i dont really understand the whole rep thing and wouldnt know how to use it if i wanted to. however, i received a -ve rep on this thread some time ago in 'retaliation' for a -ve rep on someone else!....lets just say im innocent! honest guvnor, innocent!...

anyway, gave me a giggle...


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## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

dRjOn said:


> heh! off topic in some ways but i just followed a wee button that popped up saying i had received a +ve rep, for a different thread.. there is a list of previous repping (if thats the right term. i dont really understand the whole rep thing and wouldnt know how to use it if i wanted to. however, i received a -ve rep on this thread some time ago in 'retaliation' for a -ve rep on someone else!....lets just say im innocent! honest guvnor, innocent!...
> 
> anyway, gave me a giggle...


lol....we should start a thread on this...I did the exact same thing recently, stumbled on the button showing me someone gave me -ve rep last year. I still don't understand what he was babbling on about, what point he was trying to make or what the issue was.


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## trumpus (Jul 21, 2009)

finch2 said:


> lol....we should start a thread on this...I did the exact same thing recently, stumbled on the button showing me someone gave me -ve rep last year. I still don't understand what he was babbling on about, what point he was trying to make or what the issue was.


Same. Someone gave me neg rep for using an abbreviation for a tire (2.55 WW) in a thread about wide tires. Peoples is crazy!


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

trumpus said:


> Same. Someone gave me neg rep for using an abbreviation for a tire (2.55 WW) in a thread about wide tires. Peoples is crazy!


The whole rep. thing I just find sooooo high school. Of course, having said that, I'll probably get bombarded with it. Who's idea was it and why on earth has every forum I'm on adopted it? To me, it truly means nothing. I honestly never pay any attention to mine or anyone elses for that matter. What matters to me is the content of peoples messages.

Krampus content here - Anyone know if/when they'll start making the '13/'14 model Krampus and what, if any, changes are planned? Even though I like the glitter green just fine, I would like options, even if I don't like the options.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Current models are '13s. You'll be stuck with "moonlit swamp green" until late this year, probably around October or November when most new model year details are released.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

PretendGentleman said:


> I'm actually sort of digging the coordination between the seatpost and the fork.
> The steepening of the seattubeangle is also good for the thomson seatpost, which was tilted as far forward as possible, but just barely not enough. I love thomson posts, but why are they so anti slack seattube angle?


My guess on the Thomson thing.... and it's purely a guess is that they see themselves are more "race" oriented than DH/Freeride or Fat Bike. I could be wrong though. Given that idea, it means that geometry is pretty traditional and long.


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## jfkbike2 (Feb 8, 2005)

PretendGentleman said:


> I love thomson posts, but why are they so anti slack seattube angle?


I think Thomson still make a kit for the posts that allow more tilt, had to get one of those for a Maverick ML7 many moon ago if memory serves.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Bacons said:


> For those waiting on complete builds, my LBS told me today that they are now delayed until Mid-April. I've had my order in since last Sept. *sigh*


Anybody else have any updated outlooks on delivery of completes? I've put an XL complete on the pre-order, and am anxiously awaiting it.

I work in product design and production, and I fully understand that delays will happen. The completes were given an initial delivery date of March during the pre-order, so the slip is pretty minimal in the big picture. I expected there would be some delay as well.

But it would be nice if Surly would provide some sort of public updates on delivery outlook once in a while. I understand they don't want to over-commit and then miss another deadline, but acknowledgement of the delay would be nice.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

renegade44 said:


> Anybody else have any updated outlooks on delivery of completes?


I was at my LBS yesterday and they are waiting on 3 completes with no idea when they'll actually arrive.

Since frames/rims/tires are available they figure the hold up must be some part in the build kit.

They've had Krampus test rides and are stoked to get the product. I think at least one of the 3 bikes is going to a staff member!


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

renegade44 said:


> Anybody else have any updated outlooks on delivery of completes? I've put an XL complete on the pre-order, and am anxiously awaiting it.
> 
> I work in product design and production, and I fully understand that delays will happen. The completes were given an initial delivery date of March during the pre-order, so the slip is pretty minimal in the big picture. I expected there would be some delay as well.
> 
> But it would be nice if Surly would provide some sort of public updates on delivery outlook once in a while. I understand they don't want to over-commit and then miss another deadline, but acknowledgement of the delay would be nice.


I put a down payment on one today and after long phone call with a Surly rep the LBS employee told me that all the bikes in the April shipment were spoken for and that June was the expected next shipment. They reported that even the frames were sold out which was new information to me. I honestly didn't expect the April bikes to cover demand since I also heard people have been waiting on those since as early as November.


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

salt_fish said:


> I put a down payment on one today and after long phone call with a Surly rep the LBS employee told me that all the bikes in the April shipment were spoken for and that June was the expected next shipment. They reported that even the frames were sold out which was new information to me. I honestly didn't expect the April bikes to cover demand since I also heard people have been waiting on those since as early as November.


Im pretty sure cycle haven has frames left and completes available when they come in. Give them a call


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Bikeman has frames, I received a large today.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

My LBS has two completes coming in Mid-April. Both are spoken for (  ). I think if you want one now, you will need to do a custom build. Otherwise, you will need to wait until mid-Summer.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

If you are in BC Fairfield Bike Shop in Victoria has 3 completes coming in. I think one is spoken for by a staff member, but there is one or two available.

Fairfield Bicycle Shop - Welcome

NRG had frames/tires/rims available 3 weeks ago. Not sure at the moment, but they didn't sound like they were going to run out crazy fast. A lot of CDN LBS have NRG accounts and can access product from them.


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## fleanutz (Jan 29, 2004)

A few shots of my Knard/Rabbit Hole in a Fox F29RL.























































As you can see, quite a bit of room. 60 miles on the Krampus so far, thus not a lot of tire wear to improve clearance. These are the 27tpi tires with a 29er tube in them, for what it's worth.

I've ridden the Krampus on some pretty difficult trails and haven't really wished for suspension yet. Picked up this fork a while back cause it was dirt cheap...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

fleanutz said:


> A few shots of my Knard/Rabbit Hole in a Fox F29RL.


Nice....thanks for sharing....:thumbsup:

Can you take the air out of the fork and take some more pics of the clearance with the fork crown when compressed?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Got my first real Krampus ride in this weekend. I've been doing recon all last spring/summer/fall to find a dirt route from Lake Cowichan to Victoria to bikepack. I finally had enough recon done to narrow it down to 2 possible connectors - 1 short and sweet and 1 longer and round about.

So I rolled out on the Krampus to finally check out the last piece in the puzzle. I'll post a full report in Bikepacking later this week when I have time.










The good news is the longer connector worked [shorter one exists on the map, but not in the forest!!] and the Krampus is a great bikepacking rig. I had downed trees to ride over, steep climbs, snow and high speed gravel descents to tackle. Having owned a fatbike, 29er and now the Krampus I can say that my first impressions are that it combines some of the best parts of both originator platforms and has a nice geometry.










The weight isn't bad [don't have a scale to give you a number]. I found carrying it over large blowdowns and fording creeks wasn't bad at all and my bikepacking gear is light, but not ultralight.

My next mission is to try it unloaded for techy MTBing - that's on the menu for tomorrow.

Trip and build photos are here:

Surly Krampus - a set on Flickr

I was solo for most of the trip so there is a definite lack of action riding shots...sorry! I'm not in great shape at the moment so setting up a tripod and timer was just more than I could handle on top of the riding. Even though I know the action shots are a lot more fun to look at.


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

vikb said:


> Nice....thanks for sharing....:thumbsup:
> 
> Can you take the air out of the fork and take some more pics of the clearance with the fork crown when compressed?


Their is no clearance with it bottomed out


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## ppaivio (Jul 29, 2009)

Easter overnighter:

Easter overnighter | Diamond Dog


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

GTR2ebike said:


> Their is no clearance with it bottomed out


Does it hit the crown at all? Is your fork thru axle or QR?


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

GTR-33 said:


> Does it hit the crown at all? Is your fork thru axle or QR?


Thru Axle. The tire will make contact with the crown around 5-7mm travel left.

Also my tire had about the same clearance as the pictures above when new but the tire has grown, it is now much closer on top.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

fleanutz- Can you measure the opening width on that Fox? Curious if my Micro TI would have more/less room.

GTR2ebike- is your Knard tubeless?


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

nitrousjunky said:


> fleanutz- Can you measure the opening width on that Fox? Curious if my Micro TI would have more/less room.
> 
> GTR2ebike- is your Knard tubeless?


Yes it's tubeless.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

vanjr said:


> But up the hills.....?


All though I don't have any scientific evidence to back this up - there is little doubt that Krampus will be slower up long smooth climbs. It just weighs more. However when it comes to technical climbs I believe Krampus has an advantage. If you can carry momentum into a climb it will reward you because the faster you go the better it works on rocks and roots.

Activities for clydeone


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

What happened to the the thread with the failed knard tire surly would not warranty. Seems to have disappeared, but I can't remember where it was to start with.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

vanjr said:


> But up the hills.....?


Did a lot of climbing on the Krampus over the weekend....with bikepacking gear so not a test of the naked bike. Mostly this was non-tech logging road stuff.

I'm not worried about a bit of extra weight as I don't find that is important for my climbing...what I care about is rolling resistance of the tires and how the frame responds to my power input. On both accounts the Krampus delivered and the bike worked well for me.

That's from a trail riding/bikepacking/exploring perspective going at medium speed all day. I'm not a racer or a sprinter.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

thickfog said:


> What happened to the the thread with the failed knard tire surly would not warranty.


Surly is taking care of it: http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/knard-tire-failure-841862.html


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

vanjr said:


> But up the hills.....?


I've demoed it and compared it back to back against my Niner JET9 - the Krampus is a little heavier, but a lot more efficient because it's rigid and has crazy traction. You can stand on those pedals and muscle your way up anything without worrying that the rear tire is going to spin on you and waste your energy, plus there's no suspension to absorb your input, every watt goes straight to the trail and it climbs like crazy. I cleaned stuff climbing on the Krampus that I still haven't cleaned on my Niner.

Now, does it climb better than a hardtail 29er with a lockout fork? I'm sure it doesn't. But it climbs real good on the local CO trails.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

david.p said:


> Surly is taking care of it: http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/knard-tire-failure-841862.html


Thanks!


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

vikb said:


> Got my first real Krampus ride in this weekend. I've been doing recon all last spring/summer/fall to find a dirt route from Lake Cowichan to Victoria to bikepack. I finally had enough recon done to narrow it down to 2 possible connectors - 1 short and sweet and 1 longer and round about.
> 
> So I rolled out on the Krampus to finally check out the last piece in the puzzle. I'll post a full report in Bikepacking later this week when I have time.
> 
> ...


Vik, do the Flow's work well enough, or are you planning on the Rabbit Hole's? Nice setup


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

rjedoaks said:


> Vik, do the Flow's work well enough, or are you planning on the Rabbit Hole's? Nice setup


The Flows work well enough for now. I'm thinking of getting some wider rims later, but I am not in a huge rush. The biggest complaint I could make so far is that at high speed on rocky/gravelly surfaces the tires felt a bit vague. That didn't cause any issues and the bike goes where I want it to. Just feels a bit disconnected.

I didn't notice that at slower speeds.

I am running these the 120tpi Knards with 29 x 1.75"/2.25" tubes in 'em. I didn't think tubeless would work well with such a size mis-match.

I'd like to run tubeless and I like the way wide tires feel on wider rims so I see this as a good, but not final solution.

If you had 29er Flows on some wheels you liked I'd go for it. If you were starting from scratch I'd go for the RHs off the bat.

I basically took all the parts off my 29er MTB and swapped them to the Krampus frame. It was smart of Surly to no use any odd build standards. Makes taking the leap easy. :thumbsup:


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

hirschmj said:


> I cleaned stuff climbing on the Krampus that I still haven't cleaned on my Niner.


yes it has made stuff that I used to struggle with on my Fisher easy. no matter which way you are pointed up or down it will roll over everything.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

I just finished building it and have not rode it much, but my Krampus build goes like this;

Small Krampus Frame
Rabbit hole rims & 120tpi Knard tires
DT240 hubs (15mm thru front/10mm thru rear)
Sram XX1 (1x11) drivetrain
Sram (Elixr) XX brakes
Niner carbon rigid tapered fork
25.4lbs

In my opinion, all of my other bikes are going to have flats from sitting, because this thing is fantastic at everything.

I will post some pictures later.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

vikb said:


> The Flows work well enough for now. I'm thinking of getting some wider rims later, but I am not in a huge rush. The biggest complaint I could make so far is that at high speed on rocky/gravelly surfaces the tires felt a bit vague. That didn't cause any issues and the bike goes where I want it to. Just feels a bit disconnected.
> 
> I didn't notice that at slower speeds.
> 
> ...


I'm definitely going 29er mode for a while. I'll post some pics when it is built. Thanks Rich


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## milksteak (Sep 17, 2011)

vikb said:


> The Flows work well enough for now. I'm thinking of getting some wider rims later, but I am not in a huge rush. The biggest complaint I could make so far is that at high speed on rocky/gravelly surfaces the tires felt a bit vague. That didn't cause any issues and the bike goes where I want it to. Just feels a bit disconnected.
> 
> I didn't notice that at slower speeds.
> 
> ...


Hmm my Chupacabra was designed with clearance for the old WTB WeirWolf 2.55. I wonder if there is enough room for a Knard+Flow? I may have to purchase a tire and try it out. I'm not to keen on running tubes again though.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

milksteak said:


> Hmm my Chupacabra was designed with clearance for the old WTB WeirWolf 2.55. I wonder if there is enough room for a Knard+Flow? I may have to purchase a tire and try it out. I'm not to keen on running tubes again though.


Here is some Surly tire data for the Knard 29+. You can measure up your bike and see what is likely to happen.

http://surlybikes.com/uploads/downloads/SUR_Tire_Geometries.pdf


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## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

milksteak said:


> Hmm my Chupacabra was designed with clearance for the old WTB WeirWolf 2.55. I wonder if there is enough room for a Knard+Flow? I may have to purchase a tire and try it out. I'm not to keen on running tubes again though.


I'm running Velocity Blunt 35's (aka P35) on 27TPI Knards tubeless (split tube). No issues thus far, although it's slowly leaking air somewhere. It will lose all air in about a week's time, so nothing too bad.

I really don't have any steering issues at high speeds. I think the Blunt's are wide enough to help keep the squirm to a minimum. I'd like to try RH's one day, but at twice the cost, not worth it for me.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

I've been keeping an eye on the complete spec list on Surly's website, and they've recently changed the brakes from Avid BB7 to Avid FRS.

1. I absolutely love BB7 brakes, and would be sad if my complete doesn't arrive with them.
2. What are "Avid FRS" brakes? A google search doesn't list anything.

They still list the brake levers as BB5, so would assume they are still mechanical discs. I looked at Avid's website, and they don't have any other mech discs beside BB5 and BB7. Interestingly, they have "FR-5" levers, which are low end levers typically paired with BB5 brakes.....I really hope Surly didn't downgrade to BB5's.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

renegade44 said:


> I've been keeping an eye on the complete spec list on Surly's website, and they've recently changed the brakes from Avid BB7 to Avid FRS
> 
> ....snip...
> 
> I really hope Surly didn't downgrade to BB5's.


I feel you on that. The completes are only a great deal if you don't go any swap out a bunch of parts right away.

Having said that something is holding up the completes and it could be that some component changes are being made to get them back on track for delivery??


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

i never understood the fascination with mechanical disc brakes. is it a price point issue? i know alot of surly bike owners are happy with them on the completes or opt for them when doing a frame up build.
why not the deore hydraulics which are very cheap and based on the new style xt/slx brakes?
not bagging them, just curious


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

SteveJfromtheSwitch said:


> i never understood the fascination with mechanical disc brakes. is it a price point issue? i know alot of surly bike owners are happy with them on the completes or opt for them when doing a frame up build.
> why not the deore hydraulics which are very cheap and based on the new style xt/slx brakes?
> not bagging them, just curious


They just work. Why use/risk something more complicated.

I've been on rides, and had friends have issues with hydros. Never seen a trail side problem with BB7's, and I currently run them on 4 bikes. They stop my 215+ lbs easily, whether dual brakes on a mountain bike or a single front brake on my fixed gear road bike screaming downhill.

Reliable, dependable, simple, easy to adjust/service, no special tools/fluids required, price/value, and can be run with drop bars or mountain bars...

Honestly, I've only owned one set of hyrdos. Worked great for the first ~6 months, and then started getting finicky. Switched to BB7, and never looked back or had a reason to. Maybe if I lived somewhere with huge mountain downhills or paying my rent depended on winning races, I'd think about hydros. Or maybe I just have a strong enough grip not to notice inferiority of mech discs.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

phsycle said:


> I'm running Velocity Blunt 35's (aka P35) on 27TPI Knards tubeless (split tube). No issues thus far, although it's slowly leaking air somewhere. It will lose all air in about a week's time, so nothing too bad.
> 
> I really don't have any steering issues at high speeds. I think the Blunt's are wide enough to help keep the squirm to a minimum. I'd like to try RH's one day, but at twice the cost, not worth it for me.


Yup, a buddy has a Knard on a Flow EX up front and I'm pretty sure he'd smoke Brian Lopes on a DH right now. OK maybe not but Knard + Flow EX = awesomeness.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

SteveJfromtheSwitch said:


> i never understood the fascination with mechanical disc brakes. is it a price point issue? i know alot of surly bike owners are happy with them on the completes or opt for them when doing a frame up build.
> why not the deore hydraulics which are very cheap and based on the new style xt/slx brakes?
> not bagging them, just curious


pretty simple, you can get a pair of BB7 brakes with rotors for $80 and then throw on another $20 for levers. So $100 gets your riding and they do work well, really well. Shimano hydros you are spending $100 per brake and you get the levers obviously but then you still have to fork out $$$ for rotors. My icetech rotors just ran me $60 each. For whatever reason the lower level shimano hydros don't get love as aftermarket products. Seems like people go with xt or above although the latest and greatest slx which are basically xt with one little screw missing, has changed that.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Please post the link to where you can find a pair of BB7s for $80, I'll buy the set right now. USED to be that was the case, a few years ago, but now the cheapest I've found is about $100 for the set, then you need levers, cables, when done you're at $150-160 for good cables, calipers and normal levers, add in the Ultimates and Whabang you're over $300 for the set.



cpfitness said:


> pretty simple, you can get a pair of BB7 brakes with rotors for $80 and then throw on another $20 for levers. So $100 gets your riding and they do work well, really well. Shimano hydros you are spending $100 per brake and you get the levers obviously but then you still have to fork out $$$ for rotors. My icetech rotors just ran me $60 each. For whatever reason the lower level shimano hydros don't get love as aftermarket products. Seems like people go with xt or above although the latest and greatest slx which are basically xt with one little screw missing, has changed that.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Blue sky is the cheapest I have found for complete set. 129.00


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

LyNx said:


> Please post the link to where you can find a pair of BB7s for $80, I'll buy the set right now.


Ebay is blocked at my work, but here is details for a "buy it now" purchase that I made last June for $81.69. No rotors, cables, or levers, but that was fine with me since I didn't need those parts. Another benefit to mech discs is you can buy just what you need. Cables are cheap, and rotors seem to last forever for me. Levers can be picked up cheap, since they are compatible with many other brake types (v-brakes for mountain, canti's/calipers for road).

Seller: modifiedbicycles ( 604 )
New 2012 Avid Ball bearing 7 BB7 brake caliper set, front and rear, ships from US
Paid on Jun-24-12 $81.69 
Free Shipping

UPDATE:
$78.99 - 2 caliper with original pads, mounting bolts and 160mm IS adapters

$96.99 - 2 Avid BB7 mountain calipers with original pads, mounting bolts and 160mm IS adapters. 2 Avid Heat shedding HS1 160mm rotors. with mounting bol


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I'd rather have a quality hydraulic disc brake on a MTB [I put SLX hydros on the Krampus], but I have used BB7's and they aren't bad. What I wouldn't want is cheap disc brakes of any variety because they'll just get replaced quickly and that's a waste of $$$.


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

I just built my krampus back up after a trip to the powdercoater


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

^
No green sparkle? I thought that was the best part about the Krampus.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

thickfog said:


> ^
> No green sparkle? I thought that was the best part about the Krampus.


+10 - the first scratch in the sparkly green finish nearly made me cry...:eekster:

One reason I grabbed a K frame when I did was my LBS said Surly might switch to basic black after a certain production run this year and I had to have that green! :thumbsup:

Having said that the black does look ninja cool...


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

I think a bike this outrageous deserves outrageous paint. 

I love my ninja black km, but the green on this krampus just rocks.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

Another Krampus sighting today. Everybody that gets on it smiles ear to ear.


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

I'm going crazy waiting on my mid-june order. Putzing around on my touring cycle looking at every hill and forest...


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

After the weather allowed a few real rides this past week, all I can say is the Krampus rips! Handles rocks, roots, creeks, jumps, berms, all with grace.


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## jfkbike2 (Feb 8, 2005)

*Krampus in the wild*

This bike does not fit me like a glove but it is still a lot of fun and a good proof of concept for the wheel size.


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

An Aussie distributor has just posted a big pallet of completes that arrived at their docks, so if you're in Australia and are chasing a complete, Dirtworks have them (for an arm and a leg though!)


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## ajantom (Jan 19, 2009)

Gold sets off the green nicely 
Enjoying my Krampus a lot at the moment...


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I went with gold accents as well. I did ano gold grip lock rings, seatpost clamp, derailleur jockey wheels and frame bolts. I don't have a picture showing all the gold parts, but those small accents look great without being too overbearing. This picture is just to show that my bars are a bit too wide for my local trail 










I'll have to get a picture showing the rest of the gold accents this week.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I went with gold accents as well. I did ano gold grip lock rings, seatpost clamp, derailleur jockey wheels and frame bolts. I don't have a picture showing all the gold parts, but those small accents look great without being too overbearing. This picture is just to show that my bars are a bit too wide for my local trail
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do think your seat's a bit crooked.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Picture seems to make it look that way, but it's straight. I raised my seatpost slightly right before I snapped the picture so it's 100% straight in this pic.

The bike is leaning a bit to the left. Notice you can see much of the right side of my bottle and drivetrain and little of the left side of the bike, that's what's making the seat look crooked.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Ok. We don't want any pain in the ass issues!


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Nobody likes a crooked seat! Lol


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

Sasquatch-I did gold too! Do Jagwire gold medal housing-I even did the hydro lines.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

29buzz said:


> Sasquatch-I did gold too! Do Jagwire gold medal housing-I even did the hydro lines.


I was thinking of that, but decided on gold after I already bought my cables. I've never been a fan of a lot of colored parts, so I think gold housings may have been too much for me.


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## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

LyNx said:


> Please post the link to where you can find a pair of BB7s for $80, I'll buy the set right now. USED to be that was the case, a few years ago, but now the cheapest I've found is about $100 for the set, then you need levers, cables, when done you're at $150-160 for good cables, calipers and normal levers, add in the Ultimates and Whabang you're over $300 for the set.





renegade44 said:


> Ebay is blocked at my work, but here is details for a "buy it now" purchase that I made last June for $81.69. No rotors, cables, or levers, but that was fine with me since I didn't need those parts. Another benefit to mech discs is you can buy just what you need. Cables are cheap, and rotors seem to last forever for me. Levers can be picked up cheap, since they are compatible with many other brake types (v-brakes for mountain, canti's/calipers for road).
> 
> Seller: modifiedbicycles ( 604 )
> New 2012 Avid Ball bearing 7 BB7 brake caliper set, front and rear, ships from US
> ...


Also

New Avid BB7 Mtn Mountain Bike Mechanical Disc Brakes F R | eBay

Please provide proof of purchase.


----------



## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Really digging the wide bar. Very planted, yet playful feeling with how it is currently setup.



















My only complaint about the bike is the weight. 31lbs isn't bad for what it is, but I wouldn't mind something closer to 28 or 29lbs. Hoping some lighter components and tubeless will help, but I'm riding it as-is for right now.

Is anybody running regular 29'er tubes instead of the Surly tubes? How're they working?


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## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> My only complaint about the bike is the weight. 31lbs isn't bad for what it is, but I wouldn't mind something closer to 28 or 29lbs. Hoping some lighter components and tubeless will help, but I'm riding it as-is for right now.


Ditch the gears.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> My only complaint about the bike is the weight. 31lbs isn't bad for what it is, but I wouldn't mind something closer to 28 or 29lbs.












I'm at 31.5lbs with:

- 120tpi Knards
- standard 29er tubes
- Stan's Flow rims
- Alfine 11 IGH
- Brooks B17 saddle
- zero bling on the bike really

I could definitely go lighter, but I can't see myself bother to spend the $$ on it. A couple pounds isn't going to mean anything for my uses.


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## fleanutz (Jan 29, 2004)

Regular 29er tubes here, no problems.


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## fleanutz (Jan 29, 2004)

Someone asked for a shot of the Rabbit Hole/Knard combo in a Fox fork, no air in the chamber, and fully compressed...




























Definitely touches the crown, but I'm not worried about compressing the fork that much when actually riding...another guy around here has a 120mm Fox on his Kramp and he's actually had the crown touch the tire in this manner while riding. Loud noise, but nothing else.

And I am quite happy with the rigid fork, personally. As I said before, the Fox was so cheap and I was pretty sure it'd fit, that I couldn't pass up the chance to have a fork, just in case.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

my krampus is 28 1/2lb.... no massively WW parts....using 26" wtb 'DH' tubes, 120tpi knards at 950g or so each and a mix of xt xtr and saint drivechain and gear....feels porky compared to my 20lb Jones, but only for the first few minutes....then it just rolls.


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## ppaivio (Jul 29, 2009)

Onza 0,8 mm 29er tubes. Claimed weight 200g.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

dRjOn said:


> my krampus is 28 1/2lb.... no massively WW parts....using 26" wtb 'DH' tubes, 120tpi knards at 950g or so each and a mix of xt xtr and saint drivechain and gear....feels porky compared to my 20lb Jones, but only for the first few minutes....then it just rolls.


Be interesting to hear your thoughts using standard 29er setup compared to your Jones


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

dRjOn said:


> feels porky compared to my 20lb Jones,


Wow - 20lbs?....most of the Jones builds seem to be around 30lbs as well...what's the spec?


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

uggg! my jones is a bit of a sweetie...there are pics of it around somewhere...

merlin built ti diamond, but super compact. iirc jeff had 2 made like this and the other resides on the east coast USA...works out as about 13.5" c-c seat tube...ideal for a 400mm post at max extension - idea was to give maximum cush from the post...which is an eriksen ti with an alu sleeve for additional support. king bb/modded xtr cranks by jeff (though ive done some myself too) hombrewed ring, ti without the cut outs...i liked the look of a plain ring. DT swiss 240 ss rear with king cog, shimano 10 sp xtr chain, edge AM rims and dt comp spokes. front the same, but with a paul whub. DT skewers. enve steerer/stem. jones ti bars and xtr trail brakes. 180f/160r. tubes - but i use light 26 tubes occ with some sealant in them and conti tyrs of various sorts...esi grips...san marco zoncolan saddle, modified xtr pedals (trails with the 'cage' removed)...all bolts swapped to ti or alu as appropriate...

solid as a rock and ~20lbs..im kinda interested to try the knard on it...i have an old 29er Uma snow rim built to a whub from years ago that would work, or i might just try on the edge AM, but id be concerned about the tyre rolling...we'll see...


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## ascarlarkinyar (Apr 24, 2012)

> Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
> My only complaint about the bike is the weight. 31lbs isn't bad for what it is, but I wouldn't mind something closer to 28 or 29lbs. Hoping some lighter components and tubeless will help, but I'm riding it as-is for right now.=phsycle;10308732
> 
> Ditch the gears.


you mean ditch the bike. my karate monkey and og fork could only manage 21 lbs. with 3x9 gears and the lightest of my race parts.

this is not gonna be a light weight bike. and the heavy wheels/tires just make it harder. if you can't pedal it up steep/long climbs with the 1x10/9 i suggest getting comfy shoes to push the bike in.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Y


ascarlarkinyar said:


> you mean ditch the bike. my karate monkey and og fork could only manage 21 lbs. with 3x9 gears and the lightest of my race parts.
> 
> this is not gonna be a light weight bike. and the heavy wheels/tires just make it harder. if you can't pedal it up steep/long climbs with the 1x10/9 i suggest getting comfy shoes to push the bike in.


I have no issues with the weight, and I absolutely love my Krampus, I just simply mean if I had a complaint about the bike it would be the weight. I ride my Krampus harder than my other bikes, but I am still not used to the weight yet with most of my other bikes being between 25-28lbs. I had plans from the beginning to do some weight saving upgrades to get the weight under 30lbs. It's possible, and I'm still planning to do it.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Weight - love the looks and idea of the bike, but don't get why they'd do the frame in steel instead of aluminum. Cush-factor from steel vs. aluminum is a non-issue with tires this size. Frame weight and stiffness could be much improved with aluminum.

Like Salsa did with the Beargrease.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

Miker J said:


> Weight - love the looks and idea of the bike, but don't get why they'd do the frame in steel instead of aluminum. Cush-factor from steel vs. aluminum is a non-issue with tires this size. Frame weight and stiffness could be much improved with aluminum.
> 
> Like Salsa did with the Beargrease.


your not very familiar with surly then. They only make steel frames and they over engineer everything on purpose. they are certainly not a weight weenie type company. Their touring racks are heavy as **** but you can be assured they will last forever. I never hear about any steel framed bikes completely breaking and being rendered useless. I hear about it all th etime with carbon and aluminum. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to start a fight over materials, I have a steel surly disc trucker, carbon fiber road racing bike and an aluminum 29er. They all have their place. Steel is just Surly's niche. Personally I think it's pretty cool what all these fat bikes are doing, they are starting to do carbon fatbikes. I have visions of an inexpensive chinese carbon fat bike!


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Picked up my first Surly about 10 years ago (a 1x1) and have had Surly's ever since. Have 2 right now. Know them and love their stuff.

Unless you know something I don't, can't see where their hands are completely tied in their ability to have an aluinum frame and fork made for them. Just like they have all their other stuff outsourced. Its not like they are a mom-and-pop shop welding themselves.

By the way, that first 1x1 I got - broken (but would still be easy to fix with a weld).


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Eric603 said:


> I was going to build a KM this winter, but this might take its place.


It would be a reasonable move...

I considered and KM and an Ogre at various points, but now that I have a Krampus I don't regret missing out on the other two.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Raced the sun and managed to get a ride in after work yesterday...:thumbsup:










I seem to be doing a lot of Krampus pushing and carrying lately on my rides. I need to haul a chainsaw out with me and clean up the deadfall!










Krampus + IGH makes for a great bike to thrash in the forest...


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

Can't tell if trolling. You've owned Surly bikes and you're asking why they didn't make it in aluminum? That's like asking why Pinarello doesn't make their 2013 TDF bikes out of Bamboo.



Miker J said:


> Weight - love the looks and idea of the bike, but don't get why they'd do the frame in steel instead of aluminum. Cush-factor from steel vs. aluminum is a non-issue with tires this size. Frame weight and stiffness could be much improved with aluminum.
> 
> Like Salsa did with the Beargrease.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I predict you'll see a AL 29+ bike from Salsa at Interbike this year.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

vikb said:


> I predict you'll see a AL 29+ bike from Salsa at Interbike this year.


Be carefull what you say, you'll be accused of trolling.

You should know that cheap, heavy steel frames are superior to aluminum frames.

(Nothing against cheap, heavy steel frames - I have a few, and the Krampus looks way cool - but why some posters are retaliating against the suggesting of making it aluminum does not make sense.)


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Miker J said:


> Be carefull what you say, you'll be accused of trolling.
> 
> You should know that cheap, heavy steel frames are superior to aluminum frames.
> 
> (Nothing against cheap, heavy steel frames - I have a few, and the Krampus looks way cool - but why some posters are retaliating against the suggesting of making it aluminum does not make sense.)


I'd rather have a steel framed/forked rigid bike hence the reason I have 6 Surlys in my garage and zero Salsas. The Krampus replaced a stiff AL 29er I tried out.

Having said that I don't begrudge other cyclists a choice of frame materials. Surly & Salsa are all just QBP puppets...it's the same mothership we are all gonna be beamed up to...


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

"like"



vikb said:


> I'd rather have a steel framed/forked rigid bike hence the reason I have 6 Surlys in my garage and zero Salsas. The Krampus replaced a stiff AL 29er I tried out.
> 
> Having said that I don't begrudge other cyclists a choice of frame materials. Surly & Salsa are all just QBP puppets...it's the same mothership we are all gonna be beamed up to...


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

Miker J said:


> Be carefull what you say, you'll be accused of trolling.
> 
> You should know that cheap, heavy steel frames are superior to aluminum frames.
> 
> (Nothing against cheap, heavy steel frames - I have a few, and the Krampus looks way cool - but why some posters are retaliating against the suggesting of making it aluminum does not make sense.)


Pointing out that surly ONLY makes steel frame bikes and that their parent company has another division that does aluminum is educating not retaliating

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

Miker J said:


> Be carefull what you say, you'll be accused of trolling.
> 
> You should know that cheap, heavy steel frames are superior to aluminum frames.
> 
> (Nothing against cheap, heavy steel frames - I have a few, and the Krampus looks way cool - but why some posters are retaliating against the suggesting of making it aluminum does not make sense.)


What about carbon? Don't go halfway.

No one said that an aluminum frame did not make sense, just that it would not come from Surly. Surly makes the Pugsley. Salsa makes the Beargrease. They have staked out clear territory in materials choice.

Does anyone make a carbon fatbike?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

DavyRay said:


> Does anyone make a carbon fatbike?


Salsa is coming out with a carbon Beargrease for 2014.

There is a small US company doing carbon fatbikes:

38 Frame Works

On One had a custom carbon fatbike made by an Italian company...I don't know if they have any plans to make a production carbon bike.


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

vikb said:


> Krampus + IGH makes for a great bike to thrash in the forest...


Nice :thumbsup:


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Can we have a rationale discussion regarding the merits of each frame material in a bike like the Krampus, and perhaps add additional value to this thread? 

Looks like we might have got off track....

The Krampus is an awesome idea, and overall appears to be very well executed. Most importantly the color is very cool! A lighter version is something I'd really be interested in. 

Some folks mentioned it could be lighter. Since I just read about how Salsa did the aluminum snow bike, Beargrease (in part to address the weight issue) I mentioned Surly might do the same.

Seems the suggestion of Surly considering aluminum irritated some folks.


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

I have no problem with Surly or anyone else choosing steel as a material; I actually prefer steel. But what has always killed me about Surly is that they only use CHEAP steel. The 6 lb. Krampus frame weight could easily be dropped to 5 lb. with a slight tubeset spec bump. And I think a really nice steel tubeset (maybe a couple S3 tubes) could get the weight closer to 4-4.5 without getting squirrely. I wouldn't expect Surly to go that light, but would a 5 lb. OX platinum frame really kill them? I'd pay the extra $100.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

Miker J said:


> Can we have a rationale discussion regarding the merits of each frame material in a bike like the Krampus, and perhaps add additional value to this thread?
> 
> Looks like we might have got off track....
> 
> ...


I am not irritated at all. I just agreed with some else that it was unlikely that Surly would use aluminum. I have ridden a Beargrease. It is a fun bike.

Personally, I'd prefer carbon over aluminum. Maybe it's the sound of an aluminum frame that I don't like as well. That is, perhaps, a silly reason to avoid it.

Eddiecycle said that Surly uses cheap steel, and could easily get a better tube set. That's a great idea. I have a couple of older bikes with Reynolds and Tange tubing. They work very well, and are light.

Edit: I wonder if the guys in the cheap chinese 29er thread would kick me out if I suggested they lobby for a cheap 29+ frame? Hmmm.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

Miker J said:


> Can we have a rationale discussion regarding the merits of each frame material in a bike like the Krampus, and perhaps add additional value to this thread?
> 
> Looks like we might have got off track....
> 
> ...


It didn't irritate us, we just know it won't happen because we are familiar with the company. As already mentioned Surly and salsa are both owned by QBP. If u want aluminum its gonna come from salsa

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Surly makes steel bikes. They state that, and will not change that.

I like the idea if a nicer steel for their frames, but I somehow don't think they'll do that either


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Here are a couple Krampus pics:










Checking out the Kinesol Trestle on the Trans Canada Trail...recently rebuilt at some astronomical cost just for peds and bikers...:thumbsup:


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ Please stop posting pix of your bike - I don't want to buy one just yet!

A couple of questions though:
1. What size frame is it?
2. What is the seat height from centre of BB to top of seat?
3. Have you had any doubts or "moments" with the Alfine 11 yet? (I'm considering building something like this - or perhaps an Ogre - with an Alfine 11, but would probably want to use lower gearing, say 30x26T.)

Thanks!


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## Captain Bob (Mar 26, 2007)

*Not feeling the love with my large krampus........feeling sad about it.....*

Not feeling the love with my large krampus........feeling sad about it.......might sell it.......


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Captain Bob said:


> Not feeling the love with my large krampus........feeling sad about it.......might sell it.......


What's wrong? Share.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

vikb said:


> Checking out the Kinesol Trestle on the Trans Canada Trail...recently rebuilt at some astronomical cost just for peds and bikers...:thumbsup:


What a beautiful and magnificent structure. Almost as nice a a bike frame! 
And your pics are awesome and inspiring.


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## Captain Bob (Mar 26, 2007)

thickfog said:


> What's wrong? Share.


Not sure really, I love low bb bikes and this isn't low. The handlebar is too low and i' m run king spacers, riser stem and bar. And, think I would just rather put some lighter wheels on my mukluk.....


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

satanas said:


> ^ Please stop posting pix of your bike - I don't want to buy one just yet!
> 
> A couple of questions though:
> 1. What size frame is it?
> ...


1. I'm riding a medium + 100mm stem. I could fit on a large, but wanted the shorter wheelbase for our tight forest trails. I'm 5'11" + 33" pants inseam.

If I lived somewhere more open I would have got the large frame so I had more room for a framebag.

2. I'm away from home on a MTB trip with my FS 6" travel bike so I can't measure my Krampus for a couple weeks. I'll get it done when I get home.

3. My A11 has been perfect, but I realy only use gears 1-6 regularly. I got the A11 to test it out and see what I thought. If I was building up a new MTB I'd just use an A8. I have used a couple A8s in my Pugsleys for 4yrs+ or hard riding incl mtn touring and they have been perfect. Other folks have had solid results in the longer term from their A8's as well.

When I get some Rabbit Holes and build up new wheels I'll use a Rohloff I have spare in a 26er wheel that I don't have a bike for and repurpose it to the Krampus. I'd rather have a Rohloff than a A8, but the cost and performance of the A8 is hard to beat.

There are some folks having rekliabbility issues with A11s. I am not sure why that is...it's not bad enough I would not buy another A11 if you gave me a good price, but I think it will be a couple more years until I have the same confidence with my A11 that I have with my A8s.

I've never run an A8 or A11 lower than 32T x 23T....if you are not a super strong rider the lower gear isn't as likely to cause issues.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

thickfog said:


> What a beautiful and magnificent structure. Almost as nice a a bike frame!
> And your pics are awesome and inspiring.


Thanks....that bridge is pretty amazing. I rode the Krampus all over it and under it checking out the details. I always come here at high noon with a crappy camera. I need to camp nearby and catch it in some good light. I'm glad the Gov't used my tax dollars for a bike friendly project like this.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Captain Bob said:


> Not feeling the love with my large krampus........feeling sad about it.......might sell it.......


Although I am enjoying my Krampus I always say life is too short for keeping a bike you don't love.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

vikb said:


> 1. I'm riding a medium + 100mm stem. I could fit on a large, but wanted the shorter wheelbase for our tight forest trails. I'm 5'11" + 33" pants inseam.
> 
> <snip> I'll use a Rohloff I have spare in a 26er wheel that I don't have a bike for and repurpose it to the Krampus. I'd rather have a Rohloff than a A8, but the cost and performance of the A8 is hard to beat.
> 
> I've never run an A8 or A11 lower than 32T x 23T....if you are not a super strong rider the lower gear isn't as likely to cause issues.


Thanks a lot! It sounds like we're the same height, but you might have a bit longer legs; I should fit on a medium with no worries.

I wish I had a spare Rohloff sitting around. Unfortunately, getting the disk brake version is fairly prohibitive here in Oz, as it's just over the threshold where duty, tax, etc have to be paid which would add ~$300 over a non-disk version. Even the basic Rohloff would cost me nearly double the price of an A11 and 3-4x the price of an A8. <sigh>

I've been following the discussions here and elsewhere about the A11 reliability and am not too keen on potentially having dramas, though to be fair Shimano here in Oz are good about warranty. Unfortunately, where I ride I basically need a low gear around 20" (or less), so with the A8's range of 3.07:1 this gives a top of around 60", likely to be painful on fire road and bitumen, hence my interest in the A11.

My options appear thus to be to buy a Krampus and hope the A11 holds out, or else to get an Ogre and use a non-disk Rohloff. Whilst I could use an A8 plus double rings and a chain tensioner, I'd just as soon use derailleurs if I cannot get by with the IGH alone. (And at least I'd know how to fix everything!)

Re A11 breakages, I'm a spinner, don't shift under load, weigh ~140lbs and have a long history of not breaking stuff, so my odds are probably pretty good, assuming I ended up with a non-defective hub. OTOH, it seems like the A8 and Rohloff are extremely reliable for just about everybody...

Thanks for your feedback, and keep the photos coming.


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

Sorry, I'm pretty grumpy about being told by VikB or whatever his name is that discussing frame materials was off-topic (despite his own input into the conversation) only to then go on and on about bikepacking and geared hubs. I guess if you have a crappy blog that gives you the authority to moderate discussions on this forum?


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## Hairllama (Oct 27, 2006)

Eddiecycle said:


> This isn't a thread about geared hubs. Surly does not offer a geared hub 29+. You could start another thread about a potential 29+ with an IGH, but otherwise you need to follow your own orders and stay on topic.


Yeah! I want to hear about folks pushing frames and wheels - quit showing bikes with drivetrains, stems, and that other non Surly stuff. . . ;-)


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ Seems to me that Eddiecycle was totally on topic and shouldn't have changed his post because it "Wasn't nice" - this IS a Surly thread after all!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Comparing tires...


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## TSOXBHK (Jan 17, 2012)

*Krampus with fork*

Krampus with f29 fox fork


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

Captain Bob said:


> Not sure really, I love low bb bikes and this isn't low. The handlebar is too low and i' m run king spacers, riser stem and bar. And, think I would just rather put some lighter wheels on my mukluk.....


The bottom bracket hasn't bothered me, but I agree with your low bars assessment, at 6'1 on a L frame my bars are a good 3 inches lower than my seat - not exactly confidence inspiring on the downhills. I'm currently using a cheap 35 degree 90mm stem to get the bars up until I can get these bad boys in:









Deity topsoil 50mm rise, for those interested. Yes, they come in purple.

My first time demo-ing a Krampus I didn't like it at all due to the low front end. Going to an XL only gets you 15mm more headtube. I couldn't get the way the bike handled out of my head though, and I demoed again with my ridiculous stem and found it ripped like crazy and railed like velcro once I was comfortable on the frame. That was enough to place an order, pics when the bars and a few other components arrive.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Just did an overnighter with my Krampus. I'm carrying a decent amount of weight on my back, but with a frame bag I could carry a bit more on the bike. Not sure if I'd want to though. I had to go over so many downed trees, a heavier bike would have probably worn me out a lot more. This bike climbs great! Keeping the seatbag away from the tire was a pain, but it worked. I'd have to pack it slightly under capacity so I could use compression straps to pull the bag up and away. I borrowed the bag for this trip: I think I'm going to figure out a rack setup, so I can make room for putting my butt behind the seat. 35%+ grades are scary when you can't lean back! It's funny looking at my route, because i could have done the whole trip in one hard day if I didn't have camping gear.

My setup:










Day 2: the climb! the top half is all gnarly singletrack. The descent down the other side is a ridiculous signletrack trail on a ridge/spur which hits four or 5 little peaks on the way down. It's really cool seeing where you're going from the top and how it stretches out across the landscape. didn't think to take that picture...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Glad you had a fun tour....:thumbsup:

I've had to carry the Krampus over a lot of downed trees, sometimes piled 15' high. I haven't found the framebag is a problem. I can hook the nose of the saddle over my shoulder to carry the bike or grab the bike by the bars/stem and saddle. Getting a bunch of heavy stuff off your back is nice for sure.

I hear you on the seatbag. It sort of takes a bit of trial and error to get your butt back far enough with one on there. Not fun to figure on a hairy decsent. Using a rack would work just fine as well.

I'm away from home for a couple weeks, but I'm stoked to get the Krampus out for another camping trip when I get home...


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Complete Krampus delivery status per my LBS today: "According to QBP late April/Early May is the latest."


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

renegade44 said:


> Complete Krampus delivery status per my LBS today: "According to QBP late April/Early May is the latest."


Where are you located?


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Maryland, USA


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## Big Gags (Jan 8, 2013)

Just picked up my XL Krampus yesterday here in sunny Melbourne, Australia. The frame is black and it looks unbelievable!!! Can't wait to get it out to Smiths Gully on Sunday morning for its first hitout. 

It makes my On-One 29er with 2.2 inch tyres look like a kids bike!! I have only ridden it around a bit on the street and I love the wide bars and the amount of grip when turning is amazing. 

Just out of morbid curiosity I took the front wheel off and tried it on my On-One 29er which has a Salsa Grand Moto fork on it and it just fits in (like a glove!!!). So the potential is there for a frankenbike setup with normal 29er wheel on the rear and the rabbit hole rim with Knard 3" tyre on the front.......maybe a 99er+??

Gags


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

Big Gags said:


> So the potential is there for a frankenbike setup with normal 29er wheel on the rear and the rabbit hole rim with Knard 3" tyre on the front.......maybe a 99er+??


My buddy is running his Karate Monkey that way and loves it.


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## slowlybutsurly (Nov 10, 2009)

Took this photo 2 weeks ago after picking her up from my favorite lbs. She now has a new Thomson stem & seatpost, XT pedals, WTB Silverado & red ESI chunky grips. I'm going for the green, black & red look. I'll post new photos soon.









Oh, & by the way, i already rode her in the trail that i frequent...hardpack, loose soil, rocks, roots, steep climbs & descents...the Krampus was awesome!!! Rode over everything!


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

So the new completes are black????



Big Gags said:


> Just picked up my XL Krampus yesterday here in sunny Melbourne, Australia. The frame is black and it looks unbelievable!!! Can't wait to get it out to Smiths Gully on Sunday morning for its first hitout.
> 
> It makes my On-One 29er with 2.2 inch tyres look like a kids bike!! I have only ridden it around a bit on the street and I love the wide bars and the amount of grip when turning is amazing.
> 
> ...


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

I think its just for a different market


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

SteveJfromtheSwitch said:


> So the new completes are black????


My LBS told me the sparly green was only going to be offered for a limited time and then the Krampus would switch to black. That's one of the reasons I pulled the trigger when I did.


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

i'm hearing ya! glad i did too (in hindsight), i just built a black ogre so i have more than enough black bikes.


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## boude (Nov 18, 2010)




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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

vikb said:


> My LBS told me the sparly green was only going to be offered for a limited time and then the Krampus would switch to black. That's one of the reasons I pulled the trigger when I did.


I'm going to be pissed if I get a flat black krampus without bb7s and I'm still charged $1950 

I feel like information is hard to get about these bikes. Lots of rumors kicking around and now I'm not sure what to expect to receive on the one I ordered.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

My LBS got notification today that my pre-order complete Krampus is shipping 4/23.

The description on the notification says Moonlit Swamp. Also, since the website lists Moonlit Swamp as the only color, I'm sure the first orders won't be black.


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

When did you place your order? Mine was placed March 28th with an estimate of mid-june.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

I was late in the first group. September, I think.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

salt_fish said:


> I feel like information is hard to get about these bikes. Lots of rumors kicking around and now I'm not sure what to expect to receive on the one I ordered.


If you have concerns I would ask Surly your qustions directly:

Phone: 877.743.3191
Web: Surly Bikes
E-mail: [email protected]


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## slowlybutsurly (Nov 10, 2009)

After a few upgrades & 1st trail ride...


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

So I went ahead and emailed Surly on which brakes they were using for the completes. Got a quick response:
"The brakes on the complete will be BB7 calipers with FR5 brake levers and a set of HS1 rotors.

They work great.

Let us know if you have more questions.

Thanks,
Eric Sovern
Surly Bikes"


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

SteveJfromtheSwitch said:


> So the new completes are black????


Email as of this morning:



> ...
> 
> As far as people getting black frames, no one here has heard anything so I'm not sure about anything like that. Let me know if you have any more questions.
> 
> ...


Excellent support ^^


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## Go Kart Motzart (Jan 2, 2004)

Ya'll are like a bunch of girls going on about color.

Thanks to those folks firing up these adventure shots. Makes me wanna get out and ride mine. All day.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Go Kart Motzart said:


> Ya'll are like a bunch of girls going on about color.
> 
> Thanks to those folks firing up these adventure shots. Makes me wanna get out and ride mine. All day.


Wait till we scratch our pretty paint. Then the tears will start.


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## leonmajor (Apr 23, 2013)

Does anyone know if the Krampus will fit in the Yakima Frontloader rooftop bike rack? I am hopefully picking mine up soon and am wondering how I am going to get it home and to the trails.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

leonmajor said:


> Does anyone know if the Krampus will fit in the Yakima Frontloader rooftop bike rack? I am hopefully picking mine up soon and am wondering how I am going to get it home and to the trails.












I'm not familiar with the Yakima product line, but the Krampus fits fine into our Yakima rack.


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## fleanutz (Jan 29, 2004)

Just curious, seem very few people are running their Krampi as SSs. 

Any particular reasons why/why not? 

Is it all based on the weight, or are there other factors?


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Mine weighs just over 26 lb set up ss. A great ss rigid bike in my opinion.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

so - my thoughts on the Krampus....

http://drj0nswanderings.wordpress.com/2013/04/25/swollen/

hth!


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## marty_hd (Oct 26, 2005)

fleanutz said:


> Just curious, seem very few people are running their Krampi as SSs.
> 
> Any particular reasons why/why not?
> 
> Is it all based on the weight, or are there other factors?


No reason not to run an SS Krampus...


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## Saint711 (Apr 25, 2013)

Hello, I need the help of experienced riders.
In November I was looking for another hobby I could do 3-4 times a week and decided on cycling. I’m on the east coast, Florida, and live on the beach. I plan on building up to 25 mile rides. House to work is 25 miles with 24 of them on the beach and I’d like to do that run once or twice a week as soon as I have the stamina and speed to do it in a reasonable amount of time. Otherwise I’ll be riding 75% beach and 25% trails. Nothing rocky and Florida is flat. I ordered a Surly Krampus complete from my LBS and have been waiting impatiently ever since. I am so amped about cycling I can’t wait any longer and would like to order a second bike I can start enjoying now. This is where I could use your advice. From what I’ve read the surly Moonlander works great in soft sand. With the goals stated above what bike would you recommend? $3000 is my budget for the second bike. I appreciate any input. Thanks, Saint


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

The fatter the tire the better in sand generally.


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## Saint711 (Apr 25, 2013)

do you think the krampus and moonlander ride differently enough to be my only two bike for a while?


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## ColoradoClark (Apr 5, 2011)

Saint711 said:


> do you think the krampus and moonlander ride differently enough to be my only two bike for a while?


Note that I don't own either bike, but I've ridden both and read a lot about them and am planning on getting a Krampus soon.

I think the Krampus will be your go-to bike and all-rounder, while the Moonlander will be the one you grab when you are going to be riding on the beach, or in the snow. The Moonie should be a great change of pace form the Krampus for general riding, but it really shines as a niche tool for riding where you need lots of float.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

What kind of sand is the beach? I've ridden hard packed beaches that allowed cars with a 35 mm tire, but I am sure there are beaches with softer sand that could only be ridden by a moonlander. Then again, a moonlander could be noticeably slower on hard pack. 25 miles each way is relatively long commute by bike to not have the right tires.


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

I have both a Krampus and a Mukluk, and I've ridden both on sand, but not extensively. The Krampus is fine on reasonably well-packed sand, but if it gets dry and loose you need a fatbike. The Krampus has much more in common with a normal mountain bike than with a fatbike, especially given its relatively high bottom bracket. It's a great mountain bike if you don't care much about weight or suspension.

For significant sand I'd take the Moonlander every time.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Those of you running tubeless successfully, what method of tubeless are you using? With one flat already and many thorns stuck in my tires I'm ready to go tubeless. I came across this blog on a google search and will most likely be trying this unless I see something better.

Bye bye tubes. | While Out Riding


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

That method still keeps too much weight. Surly rim strip plus small tube, albeit split, and sealant is damn near close to a regular 29 tube weight. If I'm going to do tubless, I want weight savings too.

I'm running an inside out sparkly tape and a run of stans ultra wide tape. Couple ounces of Stans and good to go. The biggest issue is the tape as rim strip. Too small and it pulls into the cutouts. Too big and your tape does not have enough purchase on the actual rim to make a good seal.

Let's just say I did mine over three times to get it right! Very frustrating.


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

i run a surly rim strip and split 24" schwalbe tube, i'm not in it for the weight savings, i just want peace of mind in regards to flat prevention.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

these bikes are so capable in a lot of different spheres.....29er, fat 'lite' terrain, bike packing (see vik and cass. run the wheels light, tubeless and i reckon you are not far off 'normal' 29er weight...even with 26" DH tubes as i do, it aint onerous....

cross post to a story of mine thats in a blog-competition, bike packing a krampus over mixed terrain....
https://forums.mtbr.com/bikepacking...2-bikepacking-tales-fuel-mischief-851286.html

ALL the entries make me want to get an adventure on the go....


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Only reason I'm considering tubeless is for flat prevention. I've ridden flat-free with tubeless for years and my first Krampus ride with tubes I got a flat (luckily didn't happen until the end of the ride), followed by numerous thorns stuck in the tire on other rides. I'm still running the super heavy Surly tubes, so tubeless will save me some weight also.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Only reason I'm considering tubeless is for flat prevention.


+1 - even if tubeless doesn't save weght the flat protection and lower rolling resistance are worth it - as long as it's a reliable setup. If I have to mess with a tubeless setup a lot I'm not a fan. I'm hoping the RH's and Knards work okay tubeless for me when I get a set of RH's built up. I'll certainly give it a good try. Where I live in coastal BC running tubes is not terrible since we don't get massive numbers of flats. So it's not life and death.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

dRjOn said:


> these bikes are so capable in a lot of different spheres.....29er, fat 'lite' terrain, bike packing (see vik and cass. run the wheels light, tubeless and i reckon you are not far off 'normal' 29er weight...even with 26" DH tubes as i do, it aint onerous....
> 
> cross post to a story of mine thats in a blog-competition, bike packing a krampus over mixed terrain....
> https://forums.mtbr.com/bikepacking...2-bikepacking-tales-fuel-mischief-851286.html
> ...


Great to see another Krampus being used for touring. It's a fine exploring bike...enjoy! :thumbsup:


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## paulmaag (Mar 11, 2012)

*Stans rims and 29X3 Knard on Mukluk*

I've been running the Kevlar 29er Knard with the Stan's ZTR Crest rims for 3 months... tubeless. I've run the pressure down to 8 lbs. in front. No problems! I run a 29X2.3 Specialized Eskar 2Bliss tire in the back at 20-23 lbs. The XL Mukluk is 26 lbs. total. I run a Carver carbon fiber fork in front (which would cut 2 lbs. off the Krampus). I found that the Knard in back was overkill and rolls much better with the standard (lighter) 29er tire. This is a awesome set up for technical rocky single track without drops.

By the way...I also run the 29er Knard on the front of my carbon 29er hard tail with the Rockshox reba RLT. It's tight, but it works awesome. There are no sticks on our trails. Otherwise, I would take it off!

Paul-Palm Springs, CA



1x1clyde said:


> Heres mine.
> 
> View attachment 768184
> 
> ...


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

paulmaag: Thanks for the info. Could you please tell us the maximum width of the Knard on the Crest rim? (mm preferred.) Thanks again!


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## paulmaag (Mar 11, 2012)

*29er Knard with Crest rim*



satanas said:


> paulmaag: Thanks for the info. Could you please tell us the maximum width of the Knard on the Crest rim? (mm preferred.) Thanks again!


At 10 lbs. pressure the tire measures approximately 2.75 inches or 70mm on the ZTR Crest. I also have a Knard installed on a Sun Inferno 23 (Sette Razzo Sc with Reba RLT). Its exactly the same size. Both are set up tubeless.

Paul in Palm Springs


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Thanks Paul, very useful - I may just be able to fit one on the front of my first gen Fargo; the gap is 75-76mm. It's definitely worth a try, as it's sandy/rocky here, with sticks and mud generally a non-issue.


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## paulmaag (Mar 11, 2012)

That will probably have a lot to do with the upper flair to the fork. It fits in the Reba...just barely. Even with the narrower width that I am getting, this tire is still the biggest and lightest out there. I'm sure my Knard weighs less than 900-950 grams, although I have not weighed it.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

my complete just arrived at my LBS on Saturday! Unfortunately, I just left town on a 10 day work trip, so have to wait to get it.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

"We just released about 140 Krampus complete bikes into open stock at QBP. Call your local bike shop NOW if you need one. They won't last beyond 4:20 CST today. Some frames are also being dropped. Giddy Up!"

-Surly Facebook page


Get 'em guys!


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> "We just released about 140 Krampus complete bikes into open stock at QBP. Call your local bike shop NOW if you need one. They won't last beyond 4:20 CST today. Some frames are also being dropped. Giddy Up!"-Surly Facebook pageGet 'em guys!


I KNEW there was a reason I was obsessively checking this thread. Called and got mine ordered. Thanks!


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

I now have my Krampus and I love it. However, I was hugely disappointed with the quality of parts that came with the complete bike. Granted, $2k is not a huge amount for a complete, but the seat/seatpost are a joke. The stem looks as if it's from a Walmart special. Thankfully, I anticipated as such and I am now running a Salsa Pro Moto 1: Stem, Carbon Seatpost, Carbon bars. I also switched out the saddle with a WTB SST (ti rails) and XO hydros. I guess I should have just built one up from the fame and fork. But I am pleased with the Shimano gear (derail & cranks). It weighs in (with the new carbon bits) at 31lbs. Large frame. 
The pictures do it no justice. It looks even better in person. The 3" Knards appear a lot fatter in person as well... but they don't behave how they look... fast rolling, quiet. (I like them so much, I may be getting a set for the Muk). Frame design and welds are simple, clean. I love the 1x10 set-up.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bhc said:


> My question was along the lines of will it be too much tire for a P-35?


I riding Knards on Stans Flow rims without any problems. Someone else posted they had set Knards up tubeless on even narrower Stans Crest rims so I think you'll be fine on P35s.

I've got some P35s on my MTB [not with Knards] and I really like those rims.

I'm going to get some Rabbit Holes this summer once my bike budget replenishes. I figure since I am buying new rims I might as go as wide as I can since I'll be keeping the Flow wheelset if I ever feel the urge for a narrower Krampus rim.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

3 Krampus completes [sm, med, lrg] in stock at the Fairfield Bicycle Shop - Victoria, BC. :thumbsup:


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## Saint711 (Apr 25, 2013)

At last!!!! LBS putting together my complete Krampus.


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## ChrisInYpsi (Apr 15, 2012)

My LBS (Tree Fort Bikes) has a couple Krampus completes in stock. Including one in my size. I was super tempted to bring one home, but my wife would have my hide after buying 2 other bikes in the past 6 months.

Looks like a blast to ride and would be a great bike for the types of trails in my area. 

I wonder if I can get a set of rabbit holes w/ knards to fit in my Beargrease frame....?


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## leonmajor (Apr 23, 2013)

Picked up my Krampus on Friday. So far I have put some Hayes Stroker Trails on the Aivd rotors. For the first trail ride I ran the front at 15 psi and the rear at 12. This thing climbs like a champ you can stand up on loose sandy climbs with no loss of traction. Can't wait for more!


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

Got mine today; surprising in person. Wheels look larger than in any picture, it is surprisingly light compared to how it looks and it goes real quick when you step on the pedals. 

I guess the bike shop is going to upload a picture to their FB so I'll repost it here when that happens.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Got my Krampus today. Took it on a 15-mile shakedown ride. Surly is on to somethin, here. Review to follow.

I'll just say for now that it is a fat bike, just a lot more responsive and maneuverable than my Pugsley. The tires are, in fact, frigggin' huge...and awesome.


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## quickKarl (Aug 9, 2004)

picked up my Krampus this past weekend, looking all over web for things to make it mine. where did you get the "saltyman" decal?


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

leonmajor said:


> Picked up my Krampus on Friday. So far I have put some Hayes Stroker Trails on the Aivd rotors. For the first trail ride I ran the front at 15 psi and the rear at 12. This thing climbs like a champ you can stand up on loose sandy climbs with no loss of traction. Can't wait for more!


Looks nice, makes your other bike look like a kids toy! One question, why higher pressure in the front? On a rigid bike I usually do the opposite, as there is less weight on the front wheel. I have settled on 13 psi rear, 11 psi front, 190lb rider & techy east coast trails. Enjoy!


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

I got a couple of rides in on my complete Krampus. The first was a 45 minute, solo, mellow ride on the mostly non-technical neighborhood trails. No funny stuff, and the bike rode well. I haven’t used trigger shifters in about 5 years, so part of the ride was just getting used to them.

Did a longer ride last night in Patapsco/Avalon and Rockburn near Baltimore, MD. The Krampus/Knard/Rabbit Holes lived up to the billing of rolling fast on the not super aggressive tread, but the 3” tires at 15-18 psi soaked up the small stuff nicely (215 lb rider w/o clothing & gear). Definitely felt smooth riding over roots, and going fast was no issue. 

The highlight was visiting the Rockburn skills park at the beginning of the ride. I haven’t spent a lot of time there trying to master everything with my 29er, Rigid, Single Speed, perhaps attempting it on 3-4 rides. I never could clean the two most technical lines (outer downhill with rocks and Melanie’s Madness uphill). The Krampus cleaned the outer line pretty much first time through, and I got up Melanie’s Madness on about the 4th try. I’m sure the 1x10 drive train helped, but those large tires definitely gave a big advantage on the large rocks.

Probably could loose a little psi on the trails, but felt dangerously close to pinch flatting on the huge rocks in the skills park.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

I swapped out the OEM Surly Tubes for a set of Qtubes Super Light ( Q-Tubes Super Light 29" x 1.9-2.3" 32mm PV tube in Tree Fort Bikes Tubes (mtb) (cat545) ) and standing start acceleration is improved...taking away rotational mass has some nice benefits. Not certain of the weight of the stockers (no scale), but the 172g Qtubes feel (in hand) nearly half as much as the Surly tube. 
More reports on longevity/reliability of the thinner tubes forthcoming...


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## _Alberto_ (Sep 8, 2012)

renegade44 said:


> Did a longer ride last night in Patapsco/Avalon and Rockburn near Baltimore, MD. The Krampus/Knard/Rabbit Holes lived up to the billing of rolling fast on the not super aggressive tread, but the 3" tires at 15-18 psi soaked up the small stuff nicely (215 lb rider w/o clothing & gear). Definitely felt smooth riding over roots, and going fast was no issue.
> 
> The highlight was visiting the Rockburn skills park at the beginning of the ride. I haven't spent a lot of time there trying to master everything with my 29er, Rigid, Single Speed, perhaps attempting it on 3-4 rides. I never could clean the two most technical lines (outer downhill with rocks and Melanie's Madness uphill). The Krampus cleaned the outer line pretty much first time through, and I got up Melanie's Madness on about the 4th try. I'm sure the 1x10 drive train helped, but those large tires definitely gave a big advantage on the large rocks.
> 
> Probably could loose a little psi on the trails, but felt dangerously close to pinch flatting on the huge rocks in the skills park.


Was this last week? Wednesday or Thursday evening? I saw what I thought was Krampus pass me as I slowed on yellow trail because I thought my fiancée had called out to me - she was behind me. I screamed out, "nice bike" as you rode past. First one Ive seen in Patapsco.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

_Alberto_ said:


> Was this last week? Wednesday or Thursday evening? I saw what I thought was Krampus pass me as I slowed on yellow trail because I thought my fiancée had called out to me - she was behind me. I screamed out, "nice bike" as you rode past. First one Ive seen in Patapsco.


No, it was last night.


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## _Alberto_ (Sep 8, 2012)

Had to be muddy damn


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

_Alberto_ said:


> Had to be muddy damn


No, conditions were great. The rain that went through this area during the day on Monday was very short. The rain barely made it through the trees, and the trails were dry enough to absorb a few drops. Check the rain history graphs on wunderground.com weather stations. They showed only .01" or .02" of rain accumulation for the day before we started. I take trail conditions seriously, and don't ride when muddy. Bikes were clean at the end of the ride.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Definitely a Fatbike despite what Surly says. Lighter than my Pugsley by at least ten pounds and more agile and maneuverable as advertised but it still has that solid connected to the ground feel.

Picked mine up two days ago. Got the large frame which fits me perfectly. I'm 5'11. 

After my first ride the first thing I did was replace the handlebars. They are about the widest bars I have ever seen and I felt like I was steering a bus. I replaced them with Specialized's low rise Enduro bars which are pretty wide in their own right but also added some height to the front cockpit. I prefer a more upright posture. 

I replaced the mechanical disc brakes with a set of Shimano Deore hydraulic brakes that I had laying around from another project. I have never liked mechanical disc brakes. They just don't seem to stop as well. 

Other than my usual saddle and pedals I have left it as is. It has a 36-tooth Shimano Zee front chainring and crank and an SLX ten-speed rear derailleur. I have a 34-tooth chainring on order for a little bit of a lower gear selection which I think is important to this bike...it's no speed demon but with the appropriate low gear will climb anything.

I don't like the chain keeper; it's some kind of derailleur-looking thing that rubs the chain in the lowest gear. I've ordered a Bionicon C Guide that hangs under the chainstay which should fix that problem.

On my first ride I had the tires pumped up rock hard and rode it back and forth on a rooty section of trail, dropping about five psi at a time.

20 psi is pretty good for me and the Knard tires do a very good job of absorbing hits from roots and such on the trail. Over big obstacles it's like any rigid bike and you have to use your arms and legs as the suspension. The tires roll really well once you get them up to speed and keep rolling but you can feel that inertia holding you back initially.

The rims look cools with those cutouts but I wonder if that's just a window for a random stick to puncture the tube.

The tires make the bike very agile at low speeds and seem to stick even at weird off-camber angles or on unbanked curves. Their tread clears mud easily and they grip, like I said, really well.

The frame is solid. Steel gives a very nice ride quality I think. I have the rear tire all the way forward in the horizontal rear dropouts to get the true chainstay length as short as possible. Surly supplies inserts to push the wheel back in the dropouts if you want to run a front derailleur and of course it can be converted to single speed easily.

Not a fast bike. It's too heavy and the wheels are two big for that.You have to be the Krampus and, once I settled down and accepted that it is about a third slower than a conventional mountain bike for the same input, had a very nice, interesting ride albeit a slow one.

It's lie a diesel tractor. You just get on it and chug away at a sensible cadence and before you know it you are down the trail.


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

I agree with the above poster. I just got back from 15 miles and my legs are about as sore as 30 on my other bike. I definitely was having the most fun going through mud on the trail and up gravel washouts and I would classify this as a true fat bike, especially after I let some air out of the tires. 

I thought it was really funny; the clerk at the bike shop carefully wiped her finger prints off the frame after checking the serial number and then I immediately covered the entire frame in mud : )

One point I would disagree wtih above is that in my opinion the wide bars are awesome. When you're going through really deep mud (and probably snow) you can really balance above the bike. One note though; they are wider than most door frames which makes it tricky to move around.

Speaking of moving around I'm interested to hear how you guys are transporting these bikes around. My large is like 6'2" long which makes it impossible to fit in a car and possibly hard to do on the back of a car. Thoughts?


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## zombie racer (May 1, 2013)

I want one! I want one! I want to see how it would do out here in far west texas


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## AleRider (Jun 1, 2007)

I guess it's all relative. I have about 25 miles on my Krampus and it feels light and fast, but I've been riding a Pugsley exclusively. Got the tire pressures down to 14/12 f/r and I'm about 200 with gear. It sure does put a grin on your face! 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Team Honeybadger (Dec 15, 2011)

AleRider said:


> I guess it's all relative. I have about 25 miles on my Krampus and it feels light and fast, but I've been riding a Pugsley exclusively. Got the tire pressures down to 14/12 f/r and I'm about 200 with gear. It sure does put a grin on your face!
> 
> Love the looks of the krampus! Why are you running with more air in the front tire than the rear? By any chance does the knard self steer at lower pressures?


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

salt_fish said:


> I agree with the above poster. I just got back from 15 miles and my legs are about as sore as 30 on my other bike. I definitely was having the most fun going through mud on the trail and up gravel washouts and I would classify this as a true fat bike, especially after I let some air out of the tires.
> 
> I thought it was really funny; the clerk at the bike shop carefully wiped her finger prints off the frame after checking the serial number and then I immediately covered the entire frame in mud : )
> 
> ...


For transport, get one of these: (Ford Transit Connect)


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

In regard to the Krampus, it's really not that heavy. Mine weighs in at a shade over thirty pounds but my Stumpjumper FSR Elite is close to 29 pounds and I don't have a problem with it. The Krampus feels heavy, however, because of those stupidly awesome wheels and rims. They are monsters and once you get them rolling it's kind of like riding a steamroller...but they are harder to get rolling than the Mavic Crosstrails on my 19 pound full-carbon rigid Stumpjumper.


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

Transit Connect...love.


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

I put a White Brothers 490mm carbon fork on mine and can't say enough good things about it. Makes the front end a lot lighter and really takes the edge off of rough terrain.


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

buddhak said:


> Transit Connect...love.


Man this hobby gets expensive fast ha


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

salt_fish said:


> Speaking of moving around I'm interested to hear how you guys are transporting these bikes around. My large is like 6'2" long which makes it impossible to fit in a car and possibly hard to do on the back of a car. Thoughts?












Fits fine in a hitch mounted bike rack.


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## AleRider (Jun 1, 2007)

Team Honeybadger said:


> AleRider said:
> 
> 
> > I guess it's all relative. I have about 25 miles on my Krampus and it feels light and fast, but I've been riding a Pugsley exclusively. Got the tire pressures down to 14/12 f/r and I'm about 200 with gear. It sure does put a grin on your face!
> ...


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

salt_fish said:


> Man this hobby gets expensive fast ha


It's my only car.

Girlfriend tolerates it.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Ailuropoda said:


> Not a fast bike. It's too heavy and the wheels are two big for that.You have to be the Krampus and, once I settled down and accepted that it is about a third slower than a conventional mountain bike for the same input, had a very nice, interesting ride albeit a slow one.


I am having the exact opposite experience. Once I took some of the weight out of the wheels, this thing has transformed into a fast accelerator and roller. Time will tell over the summer, but I have a feeling this bike will be faster on the trail than any other bike I own... including my 22lb. SS 9'er.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

sanjuanswan said:


> I put a White Brothers 490mm carbon fork on mine and can't say enough good things about it. Makes the front end a lot lighter and really takes the edge off of rough terrain.


Can you post up a pic? I'd like to see how the tire clears this fork.


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

Bacons said:


> Can you post up a pic? I'd like to see how the tire clears this fork.


Tons of clearance, pic around page 35


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## quickKarl (Aug 9, 2004)

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Krampus-Owners/585019968185461


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

The other thing I don't understand is the zeal people seem to have to put other wheels and tires on the Krampus frame. Certainly if you only want or can only afford one bike this makes sense but the wheels and tires are the Krampus. With a normal set of wheels it's just a bigger, slacker Karate Monkey...or am I missing something here?


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks GTR... this thread has become so big, going back is an arduous task. I appreciate the 'cliff notes.'
I am very intrigued by that fork.


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## Crank Junky (May 9, 2013)

salt_fish said:


> Speaking of moving around I'm interested to hear how you guys are transporting these bikes around. My large is like 6'2" long which makes it impossible to fit in a car and possibly hard to do on the back of a car. Thoughts?


I Bought A Highroller for my Yakima. I Just barley fits. I have to leave the adjuster on the front of the rack open and up to the highest position. And If the wheels were just a touch bigger I would have been S.O.L.


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## Crank Junky (May 9, 2013)

Bacons said:


> I am having the exact opposite experience. Once I took some of the weight out of the wheels, this thing has transformed into a fast accelerator and roller. Time will tell over the summer, but I have a feeling this bike will be faster on the trail than any other bike I own... including my 22lb. SS 9'er.


Did you go tubless to get the lower wheel weight?


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

Bacons said:


> Can you post up a pic? I'd like to see how the tire clears this fork.


Here you go:


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

sanjuanswan said:


> Here you go:


That is great clearance. You may have just spent more of my money. Haha. Thanks for the pic.



Crank Junky said:


> Did you go tubless to get the lower wheel weight?


No. After reading all the issues some folks were having with setting up the Knard/rabbit hole tubeless, I opted for a lightweight q-tubes, which weigh in at 172g. I immediately noticed an acceleration difference.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Just got back from a 3 day tour exploring some bikepacking route options on Vancouver Island.

Photos here: Mid-Island Tour 2013 - a set on Flickr










This is a new part of the island for me so it was cool to bike around each curve and see what was there. 










Although I did have to fight a robot for my Krampus... 










There were some interesting messages waiting for me.










and some great campsites. :thumbsup:










The Krampus continues to ride well and keeps me smiling all day.

Here is an interactive map with ride details.


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

hirschmj said:


> I've demoed it and compared it back to back against my Niner JET9 - the Krampus is a little heavier, but a lot more efficient because it's rigid and has crazy traction. You can stand on those pedals and muscle your way up anything without worrying that the rear tire is going to spin on you and waste your energy, plus there's no suspension to absorb your input, every watt goes straight to the trail and it climbs like crazy. I cleaned stuff climbing on the Krampus that I still haven't cleaned on my Niner.
> 
> Now, does it climb better than a hardtail 29er with a lockout fork? I'm sure it doesn't. But it climbs real good on the local CO trails.


THIS.

it just goes places. Maybe at 95% the speed of a race bike, but at 110% the fun and traction.

I've been having so much fun.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

Love the pics/post around Vancouver Island. It's always good to see people bikepacking too (of course, since I make bags... I like it). Porcelain Rocket makes some great stuff. Are those bags Cuben Fiber and does the frame bag just happen to fit all of your bikes? If so, lucky you!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

1 Speed said:


> Love the pics/post around Vancouver Island. It's always good to see people bikepacking too (of course, since I make bags... I like it). Porcelain Rocket makes some great stuff. Are those bags Cuben Fiber and does the frame bag just happen to fit all of your bikes? If so, lucky you!












Thanks. Van Isle is great - as long as you love forests!  :thumbsup:

I don't know what my bags are made of. Scott told me and I promptly forgot. Sorry. I want to say it's kevlar or something like that. I know it was supposed to be uber durable and was really expensive fabric.

I have two frame bags of the same material. The larger one fits my Pugs and the smaller one was built for another 29er, but fits my Krampus okay. I feel a bit bad for Porcelain Rocket when I share pics of it because the bags Scott makes look perfect on the bikes they were designed for and then I go cramming them into other bikes and the fit is not ideal. That's not his fault! :nono:

The small bag also fits my GF's Pugsley so we can use both bags at once on a trip. That's awesome. Scott's stuff isn't cheap so I can't order up a new one at the drop of a hat.

I kind of wish Sury hadn't dropped the TT of the Krampus so aggressively so I could fit a bigger frame bag in there. My Pugs has a much higher TT and I've never slammed "the boyz" into it. :eekster:










At the halfway point of my trip I rolled into Cumberland BC to drop my bags and do some mountain biking. I knew I had found a friendly LBS when I saw a Krampus in the window of Dodge City Cycles and then a well used Moonlander deeper inside...










The guys at DCC spotted my Krampus right away and were stoked to see one roll in the shop. They very kindly let me dump my bags so I could go trail riding unloaded and then let me leave the bike with them while I got some food and beer at the pub.

Unlike a fatbike only Krampus-lovers seem to notice it's not a typical MTB. Great if you don't want to talk to everybody you meet for 10mins about your wheels and tires! :skep:


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

vikb said:


> I kind of wish Sury hadn't dropped the TT of the Krampus so aggressively so I could fit a bigger frame bag in there. My Pugs has a much higher TT and I've never slammed "the boyz" into it. :eekster:
> 
> unlike a fatbike only Krampus-lovers seem to notice it's not a typical MTB. Great if you don't want to talk to everybody you meet for 10mins about your wheels and tires! :skep:


I seriously think they whacked out the geometry just because they don't want to admit they can't make a true small krampus b/c of toe overlap. The front wheel of my small(a true medium imho) hits my foot already if I turn the bar far (only happens when the wheel is off the ground such as when doing wheelies). Short people would rightfully be pissed if they saw sizes from medium to XXL, so they just bumped the sizing and tell people to run short stems....maybe a few other geometry tweaks to legitimize it.

People who know very little about bikes consistently comment on my krampus tire size. nothing like how they noticed the bud on darryl I've run, but they do notice the krampus is bigger than usual in my experience.

I recently put the spacer in behind the wheel. I was worried the longer rear end wouldn't climb as well, but I can't really tell a difference and maybe it's helping me bunnyhop higher. Krampus helps me bunnyhop a great deal. I don't know if its the geometry or lack of rebound robbing suspension fork, but I'm easily clearing ~2' piles of logs that I always had to ride over in the past.

I'm starting to wonder how a medium would feel too, so for my banff tour coming up I'm sticking with the revelate tangle bags rather than get a modestly bigger semi-custom bag that wouldn't be so custom if I change frame size.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

PretendGentleman said:


> I seriously think they whacked out the geometry just because they don't want to admit they can't make a true small krampus b/c of toe overlap.


I run a medium Pugsley, medium Big Dummy and a medium Krampus. Other than the low TT [which could be raised without affecting anything other than standover] there isn't anything particularly odd about the way the Krampus fits me.

I could also ride one size up on all those bikes if I wanted. Our riding is in the forest with lots of really tight twisty stuff so I decided the shorter wheelbase was more important than the bigger framebag space.

OTOH - if I could have the bigger framebag space on a medium I would take it.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

vikb said:


> I run a medium Pugsley, medium Big Dummy and a medium Krampus. Other than the low TT [which could be raised without affecting anything other than standover] there isn't anything particularly odd about the way the Krampus fits me.


if you ran the same stem on all 3 of those, the krampus would be a good bit longer than the rest. It's not that funny or dramatic, but it's a difference that is best explained to me by the toe overlap argument I made above.

here's ett for a few "medium" frames. Krampus is an outlier.
pug-595.6
bd-596.1
KM-599.3
krampus-609.0

I'm not super picky about geometry and find that I can be comfortable riding a wide variety of bikes. Often more than one size can be ridden without any serious feelings of funniness. BUT there's obviously something funny going on when numbers look like this. I don't think surly put a long top tube on the krampus for "all mountain" geometry. I don't think surly made the tt low-slung b/c krampus riders are more likely to smash their crotch. I think surly knows that people frequently size bikes by seat tube because of silly traditions. They didn't want to omit the size small from their lineup, so they adjusted seattubes so people looking at "small" and seeing the 14.5 inch seat tube length would confirm that it is in fact a small. Guys like me look at the geometry and say, hmmmm that small looks to be a near exact match in effective geometry to many many medium frames (as long as they are anything but a krampus), but with a low-slung tt (only a superficial difference when pedaling), so to match our other medium bikes as close as possible, we buy small krampi...not that a medium would feel all that funny, but it would fit more like a large of any other bike.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

PretendGentleman said:


> if you ran the same stem on all 3 of those, the krampus would be a good bit longer than the rest.


I run a 110mm stem on the Pugs and a 100mm stem on the Krampus. I don't really notice the difference between them.

I have regular toe/tire contact on my Pugs with 4" tires and had toe/tire contact on my previous 29er with 2.4" rubber. I have never had toe/tire contact on my Krampus even though the wheel is bigger diameter. I assume that's due to the slack HT angle and increased fork rake pushing the wheel out a tad more.

Anyone who is buying a bike based on seat tube size is making a mistake. You have to buy the right effective TT and then make sure you have the desired standover clearance. With sloping TTs seat tube length is almost meaningless.

I can see how small frame and huge tires would have toe/tire contact issues - especially if your feet aren't small. That's just life if you want to ride a Pugs, Moonie or Krampus. I can't see how that's being hidden by Surly. Anyone who looks at these bikes has sees the massive wheels first off and has to consider how that will work for them if they are buying a small bike.

I think Surly wanted to provide a small Krampus for small riders. They built it and provided the geo numbers on the website. It's up to everyone to read those numbers and decide for themselves what size bike to buy. Surly isn't hiding anything from customers.

Small riders complained loudly that there wasn't a small enough Pugsley so Surly built one in XS. The wheels are the same size so if you are small and don't have small feet you will probably have toe/tire contact sometimes. Small riders who want a fatbike have to be okay with that or not buy it.

If toe/tire contact really bugged me on my Pugs I would buy the next size up and use a shorter stem. It doesn't so I just roll with what I have.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Plenty of People do buy based on seat tube length and size words written on the bike because they don't know any better. there is no small krampus, just a medium krampus labeled as small, imho. 

If you don't notice the sizing difference between your bikes, that just means you don't notice it. the differences are there to be seen on the surly website where they have geometry posted .


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Some Krampus complete issues:

Surly Bikes


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

PretendGentleman said:


> Plenty of People do buy based on seat tube length and size words written on the bike because they don't know any better. there is no small krampus, just a medium krampus labeled as small, imho.
> 
> If you don't notice the sizing difference between your bikes, that just means you don't notice it. the differences are there to be seen on the surly website where they have geometry posted .


Yes, but there is no one definition of what size a small is. So with krampus their small is smaller than the medium, their medium smaller than the large.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

In terms of Krampus, there are S, M, L and XL....yeah it may fit different, but is there anything else like it being produced at the time?


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

What are the consequences of leaving the monkey nuts in place and the wheel back? I haven't had any problems after maybe 50 miles so I'm curious what I would look for to identify if I'm having issues.

edit: actually I see that they mentioned shifting into the smallest gears could be difficult. Hm....


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

I didn't have any issues either after about 25 miles of riding. If your shifting is fine, then I guess it's just then a geometry preference on whether to take them out.


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

I suppose I do have to sometimes give the shifters a nudge to get the chain to catch. I don't have a reference point for how correctly adjusted SLX shifters should operate since I'm coming from stem shifters.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Dropped .85 of a pound of rotational weight by switching to regular 29'er tubes today, hoping my Thomson post will get my bike under 30lbs!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Dropped .85 of a pound of rotational weight by switching to regular 29'er tubes today...


I've got a few hundred kms on my Krampus with 29er tubes. So far no issues except a pinch flat I patched has failed twice now [days of riding after being applied] could be a challenge to patch the tube long term due to how much it stretches inside the Knards.

Not that it's a big probelm.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

vikb said:


> I've got a few hundred kms on my Krampus with 29er tubes. So far no issues except a pinch flat I patched has failed twice now [days of riding after being applied] could be a challenge to patch the tube long term due to how much it stretches inside the Knards.
> 
> Not that it's a big probelm.


I have patches on 29" q-lite tubes in my knards that are over a month old now. Had to clean the slime off fully, but no problems since!


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Dropped .85 of a pound of rotational weight by switching to regular 29'er tubes today, hoping my Thomson post will get my bike under 30lbs!


Let's make sure we keep posted on the durability of this. I'm doing it on my front wheel after coming across some "tubless issues" .


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

thickfog said:


> Let's make sure we keep posted on the durability of this. I'm doing it on my front wheel after coming across some "tubless issues" .


Fatbikers have been using undersized tubes successfully for years so you won't have any durability issues with the a 29er MTB tube in a Knard.


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

YET1 said:


> Nice one mate! Call it 29+ and SS envy, but I think you have one of the best looking builds on the forum.


Seconded


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

So, I've got about fifty miles on my Krampus...some observations:

It's a fatbike, just with bigger wheels. I think it's a niche bike which is fine. I also have a Pugsley and while I always liked it, I rode it less and less because although speed and efficiency are not the ultimate goal of every ride, it is a real chore to manhandle the Pugsley up and down the trails. There is no snow down here and the trails are in pretty decent shape most of the time so the Pugsley's legendary mud riding a ability is unnecessary. 

Enter the Krampus. It is lighter than than the Pugsley and while you can't exactly flick it around, the geometry and tires make it much more pleasant to ride and you don't sacrifice too much of the fat tire advantage. We have a lot of roots and when set at the right pressure, the Krampus tires soak up a lot of trail chatter and you can get a surprisingly smooth ride for a rigid, steel-frame bike. It also floats pretty well over the odd mud hole or sand pit...the same areas of the trail that will gobble your wheel on a normal 29er. (Trust me. I know)

It is also a very comfortable bike once you set it up to your liking. I ditched the uber-wide handlebars for some reasonably wide Specialized Low-Rise Enduro bars, slapped my 2008 Mallet pedals on it, tinkered with the saddle height, reach, and tire pressure and after a couple of days it's perfect.

I also replaced the tubes with regular 29er tubes. I have a bunch of them with removable cores so I run them with some Stan's sealant. So far so good and you can really tell the difference in acceleration. The tubes it came with are about a half pound each. I have beaten it up and even landed a few small (small) jumps and the tubes seem to be holding.

I changed the tubes after I flatted the rear on my second ride. As I predicted a rogue branch punched through one of the holes in the rim. I hadn't got my under seat kit fixed up yet so I ended up hiking five miles back to the trailhead.

But it's a heavy bike. Maybe on paper not much heavier than a full-suspension bike but all of the weight is exactly where you don't want it and it accelerates very slowly. The big tire contact patch also serves as a kind of brake for the whole ride and I'm thinking of converting it to either a single-speed or an internally geared hub to make it even harder to pedal.

So you have to just accept this and either wear yourself out (not a bad thing all the time) to run your trails at close to your normal speed or chill out a little and enjoy the undeniable pleasure of riding a comfortable fatbike steamroller up and down your puny trails but at a reasonable speed.

It certainly will climb almost anything. I have the large frame and for my setup, standing on the pedals and hammering up a hill is very comfortable and natural. Those tires will not spin out on you. Just don't get into too high a gear or you will snap your chain.

I am fortunate to be able to afford a bike or two. I wouldn't get the Krampus as my primary bike or even to fill the number two spot. But it's a great change of pace and is now officially number three, having kicked my rigid 29er single speed out of that spot.


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

Ailuropoda said:


> So, I've got about fifty miles on my Krampus...some observations:


Awesome review 
All very useful observations! Thanks for posting :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Ailuropoda said:


> It certainly will climb almost anything. I have the large frame and for my setup, standing on the pedals and hammering up a hill is very comfortable and natural. Those tires will not spin out on you. Just don't get into too high a gear or you will snap your chain.


For me, the krampus is a good bit better for climbing traction, but it still takes finesse to keep the tire connected in some loose sections. Wet roots are barely any less slippery when climbing than with 2" tires.

I've used a 22x36 gear combo with the bike loaded climbing for over 2500 vertical feet. No problem with the chain. I ride hard singletrack 100 miles/week and weigh just a bit under 200 and haven't broken a chain since I stopped using a chaintool to reconnect links about fifteen years ago.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ 22x36 eh? Can you please tell us what cassette you are using (i.e., 9 or 10 speed), if any cogs have been removed to gain tire clearance, and also what cranks & bottom bracket you have, and if any extra BB spacers were needed? Thanks in advance!

I know Surly have said either move the cranks out or remove cog(s) or there will be contact, but IIRC only one person in this thread has said what has actually worked! (I don't want to run 1x10 or SS as there are too many big climbs where I ride.)


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Just an FYI - there is a Krampus fork from Surly with Anything Cage Mounts. I have no other details, but I figured somebody out there might be keen on such a fork.

Surly Enduro 29er 4130 Cr-mo for 29 Wheel Disc inc Anything cage mounts krampus


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

vikb said:


> Just an FYI - there is an aftermarket Krampus fork from Surly with Anything Cage Mounts. I have no other details, but I figured somebody out there might be keen on such a fork.
> 
> Surly Enduro 29er 4130 Cr-mo for 29 Wheel Disc inc Anything cage mounts krampus


Hmmm, limited edition UK product? Seems unlikely, but perhaps. Or they haven't got around to adding it to their US catalog....They still haven't fixed the brake listing on their Krampus complete bike spec on their website, so I wouldn't put it past them.

I'd still like to see a krampus fork with anything mounts and 135 mm spacing. Salsa Enabler fork is almost there, just need to live with slightly different geometry.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

By aftermarket I meant - available for sale post purchase - not stock on a Krampus. Which is why I said "*from Surly*" - not some other company.

This *is* a Surly product.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Knards love thorns...4 thorns and 3 tubes flatted today...about 60 miles total on the bike and have flatted 4 tubes already :lol: The trails are pretty overgrown in my area right now, but I'm reallllllly wishing tubeless was more reliable on the Knards/RH, would save me a lot of hassle with tubes.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Knards love thorns...4 thorns and 3 tubes flatted today...about 60 miles total on the bike and have flatted 4 tubes already :lol: The trails are pretty overgrown in my area right now, but I'm reallllllly wishing tubeless was more reliable on the Knards/RH, would save me a lot of hassle with tubes.


What about Stan's inside the tube?


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

i run a 24" split tube, stans fluid, around 18 psi front and rear, so far, no problems


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

vikb said:


> What about Stan's inside the tube?


Just did that...gained a whole pound with Stan's and Surly Toobs  but the piece of mind will be nice. I'm planning to get out again tomorrow, but at a place that's usually very overgrown. I'll probably be getting regular 29'er tubes with Stan's sometime since the 29'er tubes I have now don't have removable cores.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I'll probably be getting regular 29'er tubes with Stan's sometime since the 29'er tubes I have now don't have removable cores.


Cut a small hole. Squirt in Stans. Patch tube.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

vikb said:


> Cut a small hole. Squirt in Stans. Patch tube.


No need to cut holes....they've each been flatted today and one has multiple holes :lol:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> No need to cut holes....they've each been flatted today and one has multiple holes :lol:


The Bike Gods are speaking to you...


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

vikb said:


> The Bike Gods are speaking to you...


If only I would feel comfortable trusting tubeless  right now the bike feels like a tank with the Surly tubes and sealant in them. It was feeling super fast with just lightweight tubes today! Surly tubes are almost a pound heavier, plus sealant...


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> If only I would feel comfortable trusting tubeless  right now the bike feels like a tank with the Surly tubes and sealant in them. It was feeling super fast with just lightweight tubes today! Surly tubes are almost a pound heavier, plus sealant...


The sealant will do no good. The punctures are mostly going to be on the inside surface of the rim through the rim cutouts (a very poor design decision) and the sealant will not get to the hole as centrifugal force holds it to the outside face of the tire.

I'm thinking of getting a kevlar strip or some such thing to replace the current rim strip.

But regular 29er tubes do make the wheels feel much, much lighter.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Ailuropoda said:


> The sealant will do no good.


SS is getting thorn punctures through the tires.

I've never heard of anyone getting punctures through the rim cut outs before you mentioned it and there are hundreds of similar Surly rims out in the wild.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

How do you guys feel about the head angle on the Krampus? Do you feel as if it is too slack or too steep?


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## voodoojb (Jul 12, 2004)

"


1x1clyde said:


> One more "mod" I had to try
> 
> White Bros Carbon Fork, 490 Axle to crown keeps it slack!
> 
> ...


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> If only I would feel comfortable trusting tubeless  right now the bike feels like a tank with the Surly tubes and sealant in them. It was feeling super fast with just lightweight tubes today! Surly tubes are almost a pound heavier, plus sealant...


I'm running split tube, and it's been phenomenal. Easy to set up, held from day one, no burps, no hassles. I may not be an olympic caliber rider or anything, but I ride my stuff hard too. Obviously, everyones riding style and terrain is different, but I'd give it a whirl. What's the worst that can happen? It fails, you get a flat, and you have to put a tube in. Sounds like you're already proficient at that!


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> I'm running split tube, and it's been phenomenal. Easy to set up, held from day one, no burps, no hassles. I may not be an olympic caliber rider or anything, but I ride my stuff hard too. Obviously, everyones riding style and terrain is different, but I'd give it a whirl. What's the worst that can happen? It fails, you get a flat, and you have to put a tube in. Sounds like you're already proficient at that!


Hah! Funny...

I'm going to see how the Stan's tubes hold up, I may give it a shot in the future. I've set up quite a few bikes with tubeless so I'm not necessarily worried about the setup, but more the low pressure and rough riding..


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## Sverre (Apr 2, 2005)

My Krampus. Very fun bike.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Knards love thorns...4 thorns and 3 tubes flatted today...about 60 miles total on the bike and have flatted 4 tubes already :lol: The trails are pretty overgrown in my area right now, but I'm reallllllly wishing tubeless was more reliable on the Knards/RH, would save me a lot of hassle with tubes.


Solution = Flow EX rims. 300 grams lighter per rim as well.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

lancelot said:


> How do you guys feel about the head angle on the Krampus? Do you feel as if it is too slack or too steep?


I came off a XC 29er hardtail that I felt was a tad too steep in the front for our BC riding and was a bit nervous at highspeed on gravel.

The Krampus has a nice balance between stability, traction and steering speed. The extra fork offset helps keep the steering quick and light. When you climb aboard the big wheels/tires suggest it will handle like a fat bike, but I find it rides just like a 29er. I really don't think too much about the fact he tires are extra wide.

It also hands steeper terrain better than my old bike which was one of my goals moving to the Krampus.

Since I use it for bikepacking a lot I like how the Krampus handles highspeed gravel/dirt roads/trails. Part of that is the tires and part is the steering geo, but it feels very planted and secure. Deep gravel = no problem. It's a lot more relaxing to ride than my previous 29er.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I'm not necessarily worried about the setup, but more the low pressure and rough riding..


Running about 10 to 12 in mine.

Plenty of my riding buds are running split tube set up Pugs, well into the single digits, admittedly, that was snow, but they usually run about 8 or so, the rest of the year.....


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Do you have the 120tpi tires or the 27tpi version? I've heard that higher thread count tires may in general be more susceptible to punctures.



sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Knards love thorns...4 thorns and 3 tubes flatted today...about 60 miles total on the bike and have flatted 4 tubes already :lol: The trails are pretty overgrown in my area right now, but I'm reallllllly wishing tubeless was more reliable on the Knards/RH, would save me a lot of hassle with tubes.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

seat_boy said:


> Do you have the 120tpi tires or the 27tpi version? I've heard that higher thread count tires may in general be more susceptible to punctures.


120


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Test fit one of my OMM racks to the Krampus for a tour later this summer that will require hauling more food than usual.

I didn't bother installing the struts, but they'll attach to the seat stays no problem with P-clips.










Clears Knard and disc brake fine. :thumbsup:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Sverre said:


> My Krampus. Very fun bike.


Nice bike. If I was doing more MTBing and less touring on my Krampus I'd get a dropper. :thumbsup:


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Thanks vikb! I'm having a 29+ built and still trying to decide on the head angle.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

lancelot said:


> Thanks vikb! I'm having a 29+ built and still trying to decide on the head angle.


Sounds great. :thumbsup:

Keep in mind the fork rake also plays into how the front end of the Krampus handles - not just the HT angle. So you'll want to consider that as well.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

vikb said:


> Sounds great. :thumbsup:
> 
> Keep in mind the fork rake also plays into how the front end of the Krampus handles - not just the HT angle. So you'll want to consider that as well.


For sure. Also trying to build around a 140mm (for max. clearance). Guess some of the Surly guys are using 140mm Fox Floats but I've heard it is a bit steep on the Krampus.


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## Team Honeybadger (Dec 15, 2011)

Sverre said:


> My Krampus. Very fun bike.


How much drop are you set up for with the gravity dropper?


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

VikB, what is the overall width of your Knard/Flow combo?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sanjuanswan said:


> VikB, what is the overall width of your Knard/Flow combo?


I don't have callipers so I'm just eyeballing these numbers:

- outer knob to outer knob = ~71mm
- width of casing = ~66mm


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

Just a small update; I'm liking the geometry a lot more with the drop-out spacers in the trash. I didn't think 14mm would make much of a difference but you can tell your weight is over the rear axle and the steering is noticeably improved imo.


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

i took my out also today as i'm running xt shadow plus rear mech and it was catching when downshifting to the lowest cog, haven't ridden it yet though


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## Crank Junky (May 9, 2013)

Just did a 14mile trail run today sans monkey nuts and 4 chain links. I noticed more nimble handling and improved traction while climbing. And better shifting for sure! Also as Bacon suggested got some q-lite tubes and did notice a bit of acceleration improvement. I'm considering going Split tube or tubeless now. Just seems like a lot of fiddling.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Well, if light weight is important, you need not wait too long for the Ti frames. They are underway. Full suspension too boys! It's just a matter of time. This new tire size is getting plenty of attention among the custom builders. 

Also, if light weight is important, then stop piling on the super heavy components. For example, my Krampus uses that dreaded super heavy steel frame (kidding), and even has the excessive Rabbit Hole rims, and a set of regular 29er tubes. My bike weighs 24.65 lbs without pedals. And guess what? It's geared too! Not a SS. 
The rest;
XX1 drivetrain
DT240 hubs
AvidXX brakes
Niner carbon fork
Niner carbon flat bar
Easton EC70 post 
Ritchey pro seat

I think I can get it under 23lbs with Stan's rims and a different seat.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

I don't want to be the jerk that says "post a pic or it didn't happen" but I would love to see a couple pics.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Once I sort out how to upload pics. Is it possible from my iPhone?


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## Normbilt (Jan 17, 2004)

35 Miles On Krampus Today


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

ale50ale said:


> Once I sort out how to upload pics. Is it possible from my iPhone?


Yes, at least with the Tapatalk app it is.


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## Big Gags (Jan 8, 2013)

I did 53 km ride on my Krampus yesterday - with Monkey Nuts and 4 links from the chain removed. Can't say that I noticed a hell of a difference in handling but there were no problems with shifting and both my ghetto tubeless conversions held up without any problems (26 inch inner tube cut down the middle and 4 scoops of Stans).

Gags


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

If you're providing info on what setups work on the rear end, It might be worth noting whether you removed the 14mm "wrong" monkey nuts (shipped with some completes I think) or the 6mm (or around 6mm...came with frames) correct ones. your choice of derailleur would be useful too unless you specify that you have a complete.

I rode without the spacer for the first couple of months, but when trying to figure out how to get my mwod 22x33 front setup to work well I put them back in to keep the f der. cage from hitting the tire. I noticed no difference in the handling, but 6mm is a good bit less than 14mm.

Anybody else had issues with their lower headset cup wiggling in the frame? I've tried 2 of the cane creek ec44 bottom cups and both have the exact same problem.


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

for the record, i checked the monkey nuts supplied with my Krampus frame set and i had 14mm ones.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I ran into my first Krampus in the wild yesterday. :thumbsup:

Good to see 'em rolling...


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## Crank Junky (May 9, 2013)

PretendGentleman said:


> If you're providing info on what setups work on the rear end, It might be worth noting whether you removed the 14mm "wrong" monkey nuts (shipped with some completes I think) or the 6mm (or around 6mm...came with frames) correct ones. your choice of derailleur would be useful too unless you specify that you have a complete.
> 
> I rode without the spacer for the first couple of months, but when trying to figure out how to get my mwod 22x33 front setup to work well I put them back in to keep the f der. cage from hitting the tire. I noticed no difference in the handling, but 6mm is a good bit less than 14mm.
> 
> Anybody else had issues with their lower headset cup wiggling in the frame? I've tried 2 of the cane creek ec44 bottom cups and both have the exact same problem.


Mine was a complete. And it came with the 14mm monkey nuts. I think I just noticed the headset issue this weekend. I was hearing/feeling somthing a bit loose on my front end. If I push down on my bars and then let up. I hear a creaking/popping noise. I have been beating the heck out of this thing so I figured I may have just jarred the headset loose.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)




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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

That's her! XX1 drivetrain with gripshift. Niner carbon fork. 24.65lbs without the pedals


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## quickKarl (Aug 9, 2004)

*mine first day*









many mods since, easton carbon bar and post, white bros fork.


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## cassgilbert (Mar 20, 2010)

Set mine up with a Monkey Bone and a Rohloff. Perfect! Great to have a full range of gears and no tyre rub issues. Tubeless, with split tubes and 27tpi Knards. Yet to weigh it, but as I'm usually carrying a bunch of bikepacking gear, I'm not too concerned.


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

Just ordered the new Maxxis 2.5 downhill tires! Plenty of muck room and no more fragile tires. I love the Knard...but am afraid of its thinness. Have had 2 flats-with Surly tubes. Now have them with Stan's inside(I usually do that) I will miss the floaty feel-but will love the bashing of rocks! I forsee my Krampus with a nice 120 or 140 shock and a dropper post! A super enduro hardtail-with tire room! I see all kinds of set-ups on here now! from bikepack to race! Surly's are always versatile!


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

I'm contemplating thinking about possibly getting myself a Krampus. However all the reviews I've read don't mention how the bike performs in mud, is there enough tyre clearance when the going gets moist, do the Knards still grip, do they clear or block up. All very important factors for a MTB in the UK!


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## Crank Junky (May 9, 2013)

The trails near me get shut down when the conditions are mucky. So I haven't had the oppertunity to ride in any real mud yet. My guess would be not as good as a pugs but better than a standard 29'r . And find the right tire pressure will determine how we'll it does.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Steve5S said:


> I'm contemplating thinking about possibly getting myself a Krampus. However all the reviews I've read don't mention how the bike performs in mud, is there enough tyre clearance when the going gets moist, do the Knards still grip, do they clear or block up. All very important factors for a MTB in the UK!


"Contemplating, thinking about possibly" ?????? Get off the fence.

It is great in the mud. I have not been riding in any clay, so I can't answer that, but otherwise the Knards clear mud well, and there is plenty of clearance.

If it matters, I will have a used size S frame for sale by the end of August.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

Crank Junky said:


> The trails near me get shut down when the conditions are mucky. .....


As they should. I'm a former IMBA rep. and trail builder.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Steve5S said:


> I'm contemplating thinking about possibly getting myself a Krampus. However all the reviews I've read don't mention how the bike performs in mud, is there enough tyre clearance when the going gets moist, do the Knards still grip, do they clear or block up. All very important factors for a MTB in the UK!


Our typical muddy conditions are on the slimy side vs. thick sticky mud. The Knards work fine in these conditions and there is enough clearance around the rear end of the frame to let debris pass through.










I did encounter the sticky variety of mud on my last Krampus tour. The tire filled up fast and so did the rear of the frame. There is ~10mm of clearance at the tight spots around my Knards on Stans Flow rims. Once that's gone you get mud accumulating on the yoke, chainstays and chain.










The image above is Cass Gilbert's Krampus after encountering some sticky mud.



1 Speed said:


> As they should. I'm a former IMBA rep. and trail builder.


We ride year round in BC and the trails are not destroyed. Whether or not you can or should ride when things are wet is something that varies from location to location based on soil conditions, vegetation and topography. There is no right answer for every trail system.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

vikb said:


> We ride year round in BC and the trails are not destroyed. Whether or not you can or should ride when things are wet is something that varies from location to location based on soil conditions, vegetation and topography. There is no right answer for every trail system.


Our trails are the same. Especially the many low-use miles that have a layer of duff (leaves and pine needles) on a layer of soil. I'm a trail builder and I say ride my trails during a downpour for all I care. Riding through and beating back the encroaching vegetation is far more of a service than the disservice of the occasional muddy spot (most of the trail drains so well that there's no mud, just moist soil. Besides the motorcycles that poach our trails do 50x the damage of a bike in one run.

My biggest complaint about the krampus in mud is not that the tire has any trouble shedding mud or with mud getting caught between tire and frame, but rather that the tire throws a lot of mud on to you and the drivetrain. It's just incrementally worse than a regular 2.3" mtb tire.

The cs yoke definitely accumulates some debris on any ride, but it doesn't interfere with the tire, just adds some weight I suppose.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

PretendGentleman said:


> My biggest complaint about the krampus in mud is not that the tire has any trouble shedding mud or with mud getting caught between tire and frame, but rather that the tire throws a lot of mud on to you and the drivetrain. It's just incrementally worse than a regular 2.3" mtb tire.


+1 - even the sticky mud didn't stop me. I just pedalling and it fell off for the most part and I used a stick to remove the rest. I run an $16 SRAM 8spd chain on my IGH so I just ignore dirt on the chain!


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## rides2slow (Jun 18, 2007)

ale50ale said:


> View attachment 801007


Nice bike.
I've got a Karate Monkey with a 3-4 year old Niner Fork. I'd like to use a Rabbit Hole/Knard on the front. How's the clearance?

Thanks.


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

PretendGentleman said:


> Our trails are the same. Especially the many low-use miles that have a layer of duff (leaves and pine needles) on a layer of soil. I'm a trail builder and I say ride my trails during a downpour for all I care. Riding through and beating back the encroaching vegetation is far more of a service than the disservice of the occasional muddy spot (most of the trail drains so well that there's no mud, just moist soil. Besides the motorcycles that poach our trails do 50x the damage of a bike in one run.
> 
> My biggest complaint about the krampus in mud is not that the tire has any trouble shedding mud or with mud getting caught between tire and frame, but rather that the tire throws a lot of mud on to you and the drivetrain. It's just incrementally worse than a regular 2.3" mtb tire.
> 
> The cs yoke definitely accumulates some debris on any ride, but it doesn't interfere with the tire, just adds some weight I suppose.


Man, this is my favorite part. I have to ride through 2 blocks of dense city from my apartment to the nearest trail and I love waiting at intersections covered head to toe in mud.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

rides2slow said:


> Nice bike.
> I've got a Karate Monkey with a 3-4 year old Niner Fork. I'd like to use a Rabbit Hole/Knard on the front. How's the clearance?
> 
> Thanks.


My fork is the RDO version and I have 5-6mm of clearance.


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

Hey guys thanks for all the information and photographs showing how the Krampus performs in mud. I really like the look of this bike, my preference would be to run it as a single speed. Also goon to hear the Knards fit Flow rims.


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

Got to ride my krampus a little bit in Moab this past week. Super fun


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

One more


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

WOW that sure is one BMF Krampus - Moab <big sigh!!>


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## rides2slow (Jun 18, 2007)

Ale50Ale,

Thanks for the info/help.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

So, Knards are being used on Surly Rabbit Hole, Velocity P35, and Stan's Flow rims by everyone so far. 
I am using them on the Rabbit hole, but am wondering how those people using the narrower rims are finding the performance, and suppleness of the Knard. How wide when inflated? How tall? Can some techie weigh in on the advantages and disadvantages of wide vs. narrow rims.


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

*an inadvertent experiment*

I was changing out the tire on my SS yesterday, putting a new Maxxis Ikon on a Stan's Arch rim. I decided to put a cassette from the Krampus on it and give it a whirl. My original intent was just to ride it around the neighborhood. Then I managed to drive off on an errand with my cassette tool sitting on the bumper of my truck... and with the cassette tool missing in action after 5pm on a Sunday, I had no choice but to ride it that way on today's long ride. Thirty-four miles and 6000'+ of climbing on rock-strewn jeep roads later... it's not bad. I expected it to feel strange, but it didn't really. I felt a good bit faster, and occasionally I missed the traction of the Knard. Makes me want to try an Ardent on the Arch, or a Knard/Flow combo.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

sanjuanswan said:


> I was changing out the tire on my SS yesterday, putting a new Maxxis Ikon on a Stan's Arch rim. I decided to put a cassette from the Krampus on it and give it a whirl. My original intent was just to ride it around the neighborhood. Then I managed to drive off on an errand with my cassette tool sitting on the bumper of my truck... and with the cassette tool missing in action after 5pm on a Sunday, I had no choice but to ride it that way on today's long ride. Thirty-four miles and 6000'+ of climbing on rock-strewn jeep roads later... it's not bad. I expected it to feel strange, but it didn't really. I felt a good bit faster, and occasionally I missed the traction of the Knard. Makes me want to try an Ardent on the Arch, or a Knard/Flow combo.


I figure I'll wear this rubber out, then either Knard or Knard/Rabbit H combo.
Coming off a Trek Sawyer which I was completely happy with until the Krampus came along. I enjoyed everything about the Sawyer except the heavy front end. The Krampus is definitely more playful. Although I've never ridden with the Knards, the bike is loads of fun.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

ale50ale said:


> Can some techie weigh in on the advantages and disadvantages of wide vs. narrow rims.


Wider rims allow for lower pressures. Narrower rims pinch the tire in more at it's "neck" so there's less support. Run that way at low pressures it will flop over more easily during cornering.

Wider also spreads the foot print of the tire out more for bigger overall contact patch.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

*My Final Take on the Krampus after 150 miles.*

It fills a niche. It's a fun bike but if I could only afford one bike in that price range I wouldn't have got it because it is a heavy beast and while I freely admit that speed is not always the goal of every ride, my desire to go slow has its limits.

For it is certainly slow. Heavy tires and rims, big friction-inducing tire contact patch, massive steel frame, robust components...all contribute to holding you back on every ride. It just cannot go fast for a reasonable amount of effort. Nor is it particularly maneuverable. It steers like a bus. A short bus and more nimble than the Pugsley but a bus nonetheless.

Yet it is a fun bike. Very comfortable to ride once you dial in your pressures and set up. As you can see from the picture, I've got mine set up with Specialized Enduro Low-rise handlebars, a fat, springiy, cushy Specialized Expedition saddle, 2008 Crankbrother Mallet pedals, and Ergon grips.

I switched to Shimano Deore Hydraulic Disk Brakes.

Also running regular removable-core 29er tubes with four ounces of Stan's in each tube. No problems so far and the wheels feel substantially lighter.

I just said "screw it" with the saddle. If it's going to be a cruiser might as well make it a cruiser. We may be slow but we're going to be comfortable.

It rides very well. Very stable and I am impressed by the way it handles on the few occasions when I can let it loose on a long downhill section. It really sticks to the trail.

The 1 x 10 gearing is perfect for our trails. The low gear will climb any hill we have and the high gear is plenty fast enough....you will never spin out as the speed range is not that great.

I am fortunate to be able to afford a bike every now and then. It's a fun bike, like I said, but for the $2000 asking price you could get a very nice standard 29er that would handle everything our local trails have to offer.


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

Got a good ride in on Maxxis 2.5 DHF's. Awesome traction-great in the rocks. Was never afraid to push it hard into rough stuff. And I hate them....The Knard makes the Krampus! The 2.5's were slower and took much more energy to pedal. Funny-the wheel weight was the same-I had Surly tubes with Stan's in side in the Knards-and reg. 29er tubes in the DHF's. The Knards my be a bit more fragile than I like -but they are fast and surefooted on most anything. I will cope.....there is nothing else out there to compare-I have tried every 2.4 on my P35's and the Knard is the best ride. I just cross my fingers and toes not to rip a $100 plus tire...


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

*Krampus Sizing?*

So guys how tall are you and what size frame have you chosen?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Steve5S said:


> So guys how tall are you and what size frame have you chosen?


5' 11" with 33" pants inseam riding a medium, but could also fit on a large.


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## AleRider (Jun 1, 2007)

Steve5S said:


> So guys how tall are you and what size frame have you chosen?


I'm 6'2" with a 34" inseam and ride a large.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

5'8", 31" inseam, size small .


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

5'7" with a 29" inseam, small.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

5'11". 32" inseam. Large. Fits well.


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

I am 6'2' and ride an XL with a 90mm stem.


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

Steve5S said:


> So guys how tall are you and what size frame have you chosen?


Thanks guys very helpful. I'm 5'9" with 33" inseam. I believe a medium frame with possibly stem change would be the way to go?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I was completely shocked at the stability and traction of the Krampus when I first got it, but now that I rode my 1x1 for the first time in a few months it is just as shocking riding the smaller tires. I didn't feel nearly as stable on the 26x2.35 tires and felt very finicky or twitchy. I can definitely go faster with the big tires keeping my on the trail. I feel bad deserting my 1x1, but I just don't want to ride it as much 

Now that the growth rate of thorn bushes is slowing down, I'm going to go back to a lighter weight tube option. Right now I'm using Surly tubes with patches and Stan's. I'll be going back to regular 29'er tubes with 2oz of Stan's in each. Just enough to prevent small thorns from puncturing tubes like I've been getting and still saving just about an entire pound of rotational weight.


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## empire_builder (Apr 10, 2008)

vikb said:


> I run a 110mm stem on the Pugs and a 100mm stem on the Krampus. I don't really notice the difference between them.


I think you guys are in violent agreement. Your 1cm shorter stem agrees well with PretendGentleman's observation that the ETT on the Krampus is 10-13 mm longer than other Surly's. So with 1cm shorter stem, you should NOT notice a difference.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

fwiw, 5'11" with 745mm centre bb to top of saddle height (prolly more use than inseam!) 

medium frame. oddly, id be curious to ride the small....i cant help but wonder how a shorter wheelbase would affect the handling of the krampus...though the proportion of f-c to r-c of the medium feels surprisingly nimble despite its length....


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## og1 (Mar 3, 2008)

I'm just over 6' 32" inseam and I got a large. I have a large big dummy so that's what I went with. I am happy with it for fit. It feels taller than my other mtb (XL Santa Cruz Heckler) but its not. Im running a 60mm stem.


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

Does the Krampus frame need add ons to be run as a single speed?


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## og1 (Mar 3, 2008)

No it has horizontal dropouts. I'd recommend a chain tensioner like a tuggnut but nothing else "required"


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

Cheers, I've just agreed a on a Krampus, happy days


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

dRjOn said:


> fwiw, 5'11" with 745mm centre bb to top of saddle height (prolly more use than inseam!)
> 
> medium frame. oddly, id be curious to ride the small....i cant help but wonder how a shorter wheelbase would affect the handling of the krampus...though the proportion of f-c to r-c of the medium feels surprisingly nimble despite its length....


I was thinking the same thing. I'm 5'11" with a 30" inseam (i.e., very short legs for my height) and ride a medium. I use a 55mm stem. It fits me well, but I'd like to try a small just to see how it changes things. I'd have less room for a frame bag, but I wonder if it would corner better. It feels like an agile bike at slower speeds, but when I really get moving on the medium Krampus I have so much momentum that things feel a bit out of control at times.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

AGILITY!

I have a small frame with no Monkey nuts installed, which effectively shortens the chainstays (in a geared setup). I am not using the Krampus fork, and have substituted a Niner carbon RDO fork. The Niner fork is 15mm shorter (axle to crown) and has 6mm less rake. This setup yeilds a 1090mm wheelbase, and creates a nimble and super playful bike.
Now, keep in mind that this also steepens the front end a little bit, so it behaves more like an XC race bike, so decending is not for the faint-of -heart.

Next.....Lefty fork!


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## 29buzz (Nov 5, 2004)

Got a good ride in on a local trail that has a 1m downhill with 12 switchbacks! !st ride back with Knards after my DHF 2.5 day(great tire-but not for Krampus) Had 20psi-forgot to check,but at 250lb-just a bit high-lol. Was amazing and fast. Some of these switchbacks give people trouble,IE very tight and steep. Im on an XL with a 10d 90mm stem-with 30mm spacers and a low rise Renthal Fatbar. I think folks that went for smaller size are missing a good ride-I get my weight over the rear axle and hipsteer-like a giant BMX bike.I am set 1x10-with the hub all the way forward. The closest handling to this was a Nimble 9 with a 120mm fork. I really like this bike! This weekend gets probably 50 total single track miles....I am ready!


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

29buzz said:


> Got a good ride in on a local trail that has a 1m downhill with 12 switchbacks! !st ride back with Knards after my DHF 2.5 day(great tire-but not for Krampus) Had 20psi-forgot to check,but at 250lb-just a bit high-lol. Was amazing and fast. Some of these switchbacks give people trouble,IE very tight and steep. Im on an XL with a 10d 90mm stem-with 30mm spacers and a low rise Renthal Fatbar. I think folks that went for smaller size are missing a good ride-I get my weight over the rear axle and hipsteer-like a giant BMX bike.I am set 1x10-with the hub all the way forward. The closest handling to this was a Nimble 9 with a 120mm fork. I really like this bike! This weekend gets probably 50 total single track miles....I am ready!


smaller sizes have shorter ett and perhaps the kink in the st is lower down, making for a steeper effective seat tube angle (surly's geo chart doesn't acknowledge that seat tube angle is variable on this frame due to the kink) for a given leg extension. So, when you buy the smaller size, your weight is further back than otherwise. The shorter ett has you sitting upright (assuming the frame size is the only variable changed), moving the weight back. the more exposed seatpost on the smaller leads to a steeper seat tube angle (due to the kink) also moving your weight back.

The main effect of choosing different sizes (and keeping constant ett by varying stem length and adjusting seat fore/aft) is that your front wheel is further forward on the larger size. Longer wheelbase is going to be more stable, but less maneuverable. With this bike if you could ride your trail on multiple sizes, I'd choose the smallest that gives you your desired ett that doesn't leave you popping wheelies up steep climbs. if an xsmall existed, that would probably be too small for me.


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## og1 (Mar 3, 2008)

For anyone fighting the MRP 1x chain guide on a complete with rubbing in highest and lowest gears, I found something that works for me:

I took one of the three nylon washers from behind the guide and put it between the two halves at the rearmost bolt(remove bolt, install washer between, and reinstall bolt) clears all gears now. I did have to clock my guide forward some to clear the tire with the monkey nuts out.


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## quickKarl (Aug 9, 2004)

couple of photos of mine


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## Crank Junky (May 9, 2013)

quickKarl said:


> View attachment 804695
> View attachment 804696
> 
> couple of photos of mine


LOOKS GREAT! any feedback on that White Bros. fork? So tempted to get one!


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

My single speed 29er is geared 34/20 (2.4 tyres) If I was to use a 32 chainring on the Krampus what rear cog would I need to achieve the same ratio?


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Steve5S said:


> My single speed 29er is geared 34/20 (2.4 tyres) If I was to use a 32 chainring on the Krampus what rear cog would I need to achieve the same ratio?


doing a weighted rollout on each tire at your desired pressure would be more accurate, but here's my approximation:
34/20*29=32/x*31 -> x=32*31*20/34/29 = 20.12 ~ 20t rear cog will give you a slightly taller gain assuming the ratio of diameters of the 2.4" to the 3" is 29:31.

I've never done this calculation before, so if I'm wrong, someone please let me know the right way.


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

Crank Junky said:


> LOOKS GREAT! any feedback on that White Bros. fork? So tempted to get one!


I have several hundred miles on mine and I really like it. Much more forgiving than the stock fork; why Surly didn't make it softer, something along the lines of the Fargo steel fork, I don't understand.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sanjuanswan said:


> I have several hundred miles on mine and I really like it. Much more forgiving than the stock fork; why Surly didn't make it softer, something along the lines of the Fargo steel fork, I don't understand.


Funny I think the fork on my Krampus is very lively compared to my other Surly rigid forks. I can watch it move while riding and it's flexing away. I'm 175lbs + usually have 25lbs of gear on the bike.


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## quickKarl (Aug 9, 2004)

Crank Junky said:


> LOOKS GREAT! any feedback on that White Bros. fork? So tempted to get one!


 Thanks,
didnt ride it with the original fork much, was wanting to lighten it up some, could feel the difference in that regard.


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## Can2fieldSD (May 31, 2013)

Not sold on the name, though.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Just ordered the WB Carbon fork... I like the Krampus fork, but I don't love it. I look forward to lightening up the front a bit. The bike will then be perfect, for me.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

Bacons said:


> Just ordered the WB Carbon fork... I like the Krampus fork, but I don't love it. I look forward to lightening up the front a bit. The bike will then be perfect, for me.


Are you getting the 490 mm length? Let us know your thoughts when you get it.


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

PretendGentleman said:


> doing a weighted rollout on each tire at your desired pressure would be more accurate, but here's my approximation:
> 34/20*29=32/x*31 -> x=32*31*20/34/29 = 20.12 ~ 20t rear cog will give you a slightly taller gain assuming the ratio of diameters of the 2.4" to the 3" is 29:31.
> 
> I've never done this calculation before, so if I'm wrong, someone please let me know the right way.


Many thanks for the information PretendGentleman

I don't get my Krampus for two more weeks . Would some kind sole do a weighted rollout on theirs so I some figures to work with _(I know it will still be hit n miss tacking weight/pressures into account)_


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

temporoad said:


> Are you getting the 490 mm length? Let us know your thoughts when you get it.


Yep, went with 490. Stay tuned for reviews...


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

vikb said:


> Funny I think the fork on my Krampus is very lively compared to my other Surly rigid forks. I can watch it move while riding and it's flexing away. I'm 175lbs + usually have 25lbs of gear on the bike.


Interesting. I'm 155-ish, but haven't ridden any other Surly forks. My Gen1 Fargo fork has always really impressed me with how smooth it is, though. The 490mm Rock Solid fork is more flexible that the Fargo fork.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ Are you meaning flexible in a good way - comfortable - or in a bad way - imprecise steering?


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

satanas said:


> ^ Are you meaning flexible in a good way - comfortable - or in a bad way - imprecise steering?


In a good way. At this point I have nothing but good things to say about the WB fork, but I only have a few hundred miles on it.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Thanks!


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

*Moar photos and a mini-review.*


































Thanks to user HomegrownMN of JPaks for the custom frame pak. It holds a 100oz bladder and all the accessories that would normally fit in my camelbak so I can ride without a backpack. Much drier and cooler, and I can maintain out of the saddle efforts for longer.

The build got pretty custom pretty quickly. XT brakes and drivetrain, except for the XX1 crankset. 1x10 with no chainguide is legit. It's super smooth, way better than 1x9 on my old bike without the clutch derailleur, and no dropped chains so far, way better than when I had an MRP and later a Paul Components chainguide. Bars are stupid high-rise because the head tube's not tall enough for my liking. This was the first ride on the KS LEV dropper, but so far I'm way pleased.

As for the bike itself, the Krampus wants you to hammer out of the saddle, get yourself into 2-wheel drifts, and generally misbehave. It's a super efficient climber being rigid and all, and so far I don't miss the granny even with the heavy rims. I've been way impressed with it's ability to handle technical climbs, you can stand up and pedal big sloppy square pedal strokes and it just grips and goes, no technique required. I'm still getting used to piloting a rigid bike, but it does like to catch air and lives up to the 29er+ moniker. It does everything a 29er does, roll over better, carry more momentum, grip, just more of all of those things compared to a 'normal' 29er.


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## og1 (Mar 3, 2008)

PretendGentleman said:


> Anybody else had issues with their lower headset cup wiggling in the frame? I've tried 2 of the cane creek ec44 bottom cups and both have the exact same problem.


My lower cup was not loose in the head tube but it would not stop creaking no matter what I did to it. I finally had enough and replaced it with a King I7 tonight and lo and behold it is smooth and silent. I will never use another Can Creak headset.

I started out with a complete which I knew was a mistake for me because of the lower end parts spec, but I wanted one now and frame sets are scarce around here so I went with a complete. I have pretty much changed out everything but the crank arms, frame and wheel set though, which is okay because I can re-use all the takeoff parts. I am running Saint shifter and derailleur along with some Zee brakes. I have a full Saint group on my Heckler and got spoiled by the surgical precision in the drivetrain.

As far as the bike goes I couldn't be happier. I am faster on it than my FS 26" rig except in techy chunk sections and I am sure I will get faster once I am more comfy. Climbs like a champ and definitely does not feel as heavy as it is.

For those asking about size I am 6'1" and got a large. I ride a 20" Dummy which is also a large by Surly standards. I did swap to a 60mm stem.


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## kgreen6901 (Dec 5, 2012)

*a new krampus in the family*









Finally getting around to uploading a pic. Still a few tweaks to do to it. But you get the idea...


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

kgreen6901 said:


> View attachment 806890
> 
> 
> Finally getting around to uploading a pic. Still a few tweaks to do to it. But you get the idea...


I just want to know where the fantastic Pink camo came from. That's fantastic!


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Krampus owners... I bought a complete a while back, and per Surly's guidelines on their blog ( Blog | Surly Bikes ) I pulled the monkey nuts out, and shortened the chain by 4 links. Now here's the rub (all pun intended), the issues I had with sloppy shifting are gone, but the clearance between the frame and the Knard is next to nil. The nubbins on the tire are, in fact, hitting the frame and making a very interesting noise. I'd really like to move the wheel back another 5~8mm to give me some tire clearance.  The SLX makes it VERY difficult to slide and lock the hub back in the dropout (it can be done, but alignment to my brake caliper is way off). Any tips or tricks for doing this? I'm also concerned that even if I get the wheel to pull back ~5mm, over time, it will slide forward in the drops. 
Thanks for the feedback. 
Here's a pic showing my clearance, or lack thereof...


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## kgreen6901 (Dec 5, 2012)

1 Speed said:


> I just want to know where the fantastic Pink camo came from. That's fantastic!


That would be Jeremy Cleaveland over at Cleaveland mountaineering. You can find him in the bags threads. Excellent work!


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Bacons said:


> Krampus owners... I bought a complete a while back, and per Surly's guidelines on their blog ( Blog | Surly Bikes ) I pulled the monkey nuts out, and shortened the chain by 4 links. Now here's the rub (all pun intended), the issues I had with sloppy shifting are gone, but the clearance between the frame and the Knard is next to nil. The nubbins on the tire are, in fact, hitting the frame and making a very interesting noise. I'd really like to move the wheel back another 5~8mm to give me some tire clearance. The SLX makes it VERY difficult to slide and lock the hub back in the dropout (it can be done, but alignment to my brake caliper is way off). Any tips or tricks for doing this? I'm also concerned that even if I get the wheel to pull back ~5mm, over time, it will slide forward in the drops.
> Thanks for the feedback.
> Here's a pic showing my clearance, or lack thereof...


I also have the complete, and have not really had any issues with clearance after taking the monkey nuts out. Since Surly also recommends this configuration, I think you might need to re-consider what the problem really is before looking for a fix.
1. Nubbins (or Sprues per Surly terminology) don't count as rubbing. Cut them off if you don't like the sound.
2. What pressure are the tires? (unlikely, but just ruling that over-pressure isn't giving you a larger tire)
3. I guess in theory you could have an out of tolerance frame, but I also find that unlikely. What clearance do you measure and consider "next to nill"? Is clearance equal on both sides?

The only issue I have is when I am in the easiest gear, I sense some rubbing with the chain on the tire under hard cranking. But that's more of an observation than a problem.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

anyone tried any of the salsa or surly (revelate) frame bags in the krampus frame? i see gomez has tried a moonlander/same size bag and it seems to work out...i wondered if anyone had tried any of the other ones in there and which ones might fit best?


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

kgreen6901 said:


> That would be Jeremy Cleaveland over at Cleaveland mountaineering. You can find him in the bags threads. Excellent work!


Then it would be this bag making Cleveland contacting that bag making Cleaveland... weird. Thanks!


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

renegade44 said:


> I also have the complete, and have not really had any issues with clearance after taking the monkey nuts out. Since Surly also recommends this configuration, I think you might need to re-consider what the problem really is before looking for a fix.
> 1. Nubbins (or Sprues per Surly terminology) don't count as rubbing. Cut them off if you don't like the sound.
> 2. What pressure are the tires? (unlikely, but just ruling that over-pressure isn't giving you a larger tire)
> 3. I guess in theory you could have an out of tolerance frame, but I also find that unlikely. What clearance do you measure and consider "next to nill"? Is clearance equal on both sides?
> ...


I have about 2 cm of clearance on either side of the tire. Knowing the Knards and how they hold the mud, I suspect mud/debris build-up will be an issue. I have 18lbs. psi in the rear tire. 
I am going to have my LBS look at it as well... but I wanted to ping you owners and find out if anyone is using any type of shims/spacers in the dropout to prevent the tire from going all the way forward.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Bacons said:


> but I wanted to ping you owners and find out if anyone is using any type of shims/spacers in the dropout to prevent the tire from going all the way forward.


I'm running an IGH in my Krampus without any spacers. My hub is almost all the way forward in the dropouts. I get a build up of mud on the yoke and chainstays riding through sticky mud. I think that's just life with a tire that maxing out the rear triangle so much.

Most of our wet conditions are more slimy than sticky so I don't see it as a showstopper, but I can see really sticky mud clogging things up fast.


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## og1 (Mar 3, 2008)

Bacons said:


> Krampus owners... I bought a complete a while back, and per Surly's guidelines on their blog ( Blog | Surly Bikes ) I pulled the monkey nuts out, and shortened the chain by 4 links. Now here's the rub (all pun intended), the issues I had with sloppy shifting are gone, but the clearance between the frame and the Knard is next to nil. The nubbins on the tire are, in fact, hitting the frame and making a very interesting noise. I'd really like to move the wheel back another 5~8mm to give me some tire clearance. The SLX makes it VERY difficult to slide and lock the hub back in the dropout (it can be done, but alignment to my brake caliper is way off). Any tips or tricks for doing this? I'm also concerned that even if I get the wheel to pull back ~5mm, over time, it will slide forward in the drops.
> Thanks for the feedback.
> Here's a pic showing my clearance, or lack thereof...


That's pretty much the same as mine. The sidewall itself has good clearance but those outer lugs only maybe 2mm. You could cut your monkey nuts in half and use them or find some gen1 ones. Or ride that b!tch and wear the nubs off and be happy. And yes it is a b!tch to get the tire out with the chain on.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Bacons said:


> I have about 2 cm of clearance on either side of the tire. Knowing the Knards and how they hold the mud, I suspect mud/debris build-up will be an issue. I have 18lbs. psi in the rear tire.
> I am going to have my LBS look at it as well... but I wanted to ping you owners and find out if anyone is using any type of shims/spacers in the dropout to prevent the tire from going all the way forward.


You must mean 2mm, and not 2cm. (2cm=0.787", or just over 3/4")

I am running my small Krampus without the Monkey nuts, and the "sprues" or "nipples" just barely tickled the yoke all around, including the sides. They are all worn off now, and I am seeing about 5-6mm of space.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

My bad... yes, 2mm. Thanks, all, for the feedback. 
Ale... with such a tight clearance, how much crud (mud, debris) has built up on the yoke on the 'damp' rides? 
And with such tight clearance, I am wondering how future tires will clear. i.e. if we ever see an aggressive knob'ed tire like a Nate or Lou.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

I don't have that sticky, or clay based mud where I live in central Ontario, so I am not seeing any appreciable mud buildup. If any does start piling up, I just hook it out of there with a stick....or ride faster and try to shake it off!!!!!

I was just noticing your tire pressure too. Try backing it off a little. I am running about 12psi in both tires.


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## stinkyto (Feb 17, 2010)

og1 said:


> That's pretty much the same as mine. The sidewall itself has good clearance but those outer lugs only maybe 2mm. You could cut your monkey nuts in half and use them or find some gen1 ones. Or ride that b!tch and wear the nubs off and be happy. And yes it is a b!tch to get the tire out with the chain on.


If you just ask the guys at surly for some of the original monkey nuts it will move the wheel back 5mm. they attach to the axel instead of the frame. This would prevent slipping in your frame.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

Just got my Krampus put together and did a quick ride around the parking lot. I corners real nice, just lean the bike. I found it hard to raise the front wheel off the ground. Is it me or is that the way it is? I am a little concerned being able to get over some logs on the local trails.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

temporoad said:


> I found it hard to raise the front wheel off the ground. Is it me or is that the way it is? I am a little concerned being able to get over some logs on the local trails.


My Krampus wheelies great. I have my rear wheel almost all the way fwd in the dropouts and I went with the smaller of the two sizes I could ride so my seat is pretty far over the rear wheel.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Question for anyone using SRAM XX1 on the Krampus: Which Q factor cranks are you using 156mm or (I presume) 166mm, and by how much do the crankarms clear the chainstays at the closest point? Thanks!


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Q168

10mm of space on the drive side, and 7.5mm on the non-drive side


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

temporoad said:


> Just got my Krampus put together and did a quick ride around the parking lot. I corners real nice, just lean the bike. I found it hard to raise the front wheel off the ground. Is it me or is that the way it is? I am a little concerned being able to get over some logs on the local trails.


Even before I put on a White Bros. carbon fork, I had no issues pulling the front over obstacles and logs. Once you are used to the bike, you will find it's very nimble for it's "girth."


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

vikb said:


> My Krampus wheelies great. I have my rear wheel almost all the way fwd in the dropouts and I went with the smaller of the two sizes I could ride so my seat is pretty far over the rear wheel.


I 2nd this. I had trouble at first but it was just a confidence issue. I found I had to make a bigger motion and my brain was telling me I tilting back too far but the balance point is different than on an smaller bike.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

My Krampus manuals and wheelies like a boss! It's got a very good balance point.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

ale50ale said:


> Q168
> 
> 10mm of space on the drive side, and 7.5mm on the non-drive side


Thanks very much for that! Maybe the Q156 cranks might almost clear - I may have to buy one.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

No they will not. Already tried that. It clears on the drive side but is basically touching on the non-drive side. 
Add a pair of Race Face crank booties (to protect the precious carbon) and then it's not happening for sure.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ Hmmm. Does the crank touch just at one point, like near the pedal eye, or for a significant distance along along its length? If it's just a few mm where there's a problem I'd (personally) be happy enough to just indent the stay - not that I'm suggesting anyone else should do this(!). Full disclosure: I have access to framebuilding tools, and a builder if necessary.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

^ the crank arm is quite parallel to the chain stay. 
I will take a picture and post it later.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Thank you - I haven't seen one except in photos yet.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

*my new Krampus*

Parts are some new some reused with Shimano 2 x 10 drive. 31 lbs.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

I just bought a Krampus. Shame the gearing is such that I cant do any of my rides without walking portions. Should have known better about the gear range. I am modifying the Zee crankset to be a double. Thats an adventure in itself.

Other than that, I love it.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Been thinking about a Krampus. Originally was going to go with a Honzo or some other hardtail of the like but something about the Krampus catches my eye.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

drummerdavid said:


> I just bought a Krampus. Shame the gearing is such that I cant do any of my rides without walking portions. Should have known better about the gear range. I am modifying the Zee crankset to be a double. Thats an adventure in itself.
> 
> Other than that, I love it.


How do you plan on doing that? Since the fat rear tire won't allow a granny, a 30 middle ring seems about as low as possible. Am I missing something here?


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

rjedoaks said:


> How do you plan on doing that? Since the fat rear tire won't allow a granny, a 30 middle ring seems about as low as possible. Am I missing something here?


You can put a double on there. But NOT just any double. Surly makes their OD crankset specifically for this task.... it should have been standard on the bike IMO.

I think (but I'm not sure) I can make the standard Zee crank do the same thing.... with some machining.


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

i run 2 x 10 xt cranks up front, no problemo


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

. Universal has the OD in stock 26/38 58bdc. I suppose a 22 would be easy enough to source.
I'm running a 22/32 combo in 29er mode. When the big meats go on, my 30/36 double is what I am going to use
Good luck on the retrofit.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

SteveJfromtheSwitch said:


> i run 2 x 10 xt cranks up front, no problemo


Really? Are these just standard XT? If I was to get some, would I need to look for anything special?


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

that's what i have, i use the standard bottom bracket but i put an extra spacer on the drive side to give me a few more mm clearance, i would have about 5mm clearance between chain and tyre in the smallest front/largest rear cog combo.
i'm only one of a few people running 2 x 10 on the krampus.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

SteveJfromtheSwitch said:


> that's what i have, i use the standard bottom bracket but i put an extra spacer on the drive side to give me a few more mm clearance, i would have about 5mm clearance between chain and tyre in the smallest front/largest rear cog combo.
> i'm only one of a few people running 2 x 10 on the krampus.


Exactly where does this spacer go?

(The thing about me is I havent bought a new bike in like 20 years... and so many of these newfangled parts are totally novel to me)


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## og1 (Mar 3, 2008)

My chain barely clears the tire in a 1x setup(not even close to 5mm). Not to mention I can't imagine standing on a 22/36 drive. A 32/36 is like a tractor when standing and mashing. Spacing the Bb/crank out any further reduces your crank arm and bb cup purchase and just seems like a generally bad idea. JMO I put a 32t chainring on mine and I'm happy. If it works for you and your happy I'm happy, just seems like more headache than its worth.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Steve is using two spacers on the drive side BB instead of one.
With a double are the rings in the same position as a triple with the large ring being omitted? Or is the small ring moved further out? thanks


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ You'd need to move the triple further outboard to achieve the same chainline as a double. How much isn't always the same as triple cranks usually have a 50mm chainline and doubles vary a bit.

Bear in mind that chainline traditionally meant the centre of the cassette lined up with either the middle ring with a triple, or else the middle of the gap between the two rings with a double. Nowadays things are quite a bit more arbitrary, chainline at the front doesn't line up where it used to at the back (it's further out), and there's a lot more variation in chainwheel spacing, etc.

FWIW, I wouldn't get too hung up about exactly what the chainline measures out at provided everything works okay.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

og1 said:


> My chain barely clears the tire in a 1x setup(not even close to 5mm). Not to mention I can't imagine standing on a 22/36 drive. A 32/36 is like a tractor when standing and mashing. Spacing the Bb/crank out any further reduces your crank arm and bb cup purchase and just seems like a generally bad idea. JMO I put a 32t chainring on mine and I'm happy. If it works for you and your happy I'm happy, just seems like more headache than its worth.


I know what you mean. It IS a headache.... but I want to ride my rides, and not walk them.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

drummerdavid said:


> Exactly where does this spacer go?
> 
> (The thing about me is I havent bought a new bike in like 20 years... and so many of these newfangled parts are totally novel to me)


With the external bearing BB's used today, the spacer goes between the bearing and the BB shell - and moves the bearing and crankarm outwards. Most extBB's already have one 5mm spacer on the driveside to make up the difference between 68mm and 73mm shell width - and often have a second one to allow use of a plate type front derailer (also known as E type), or not. The point is - that there are enough threads on the bearing cup to allow this.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

wadester said:


> With the external bearing BB's used today, the spacer goes between the bearing and the BB shell - and moves the bearing and crankarm outwards. Most extBB's already have one 5mm spacer on the driveside to make up the difference between 68mm and 73mm shell width - and often have a second one to allow use of a plate type front derailer (also known as E type), or not. The point is - that there are enough threads on the bearing cup to allow this.


Ah OK. Thanks for the help (and everyone else too).

Cant wait to get my Krampus back on the trail.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

wadester said:


> With the external bearing BB's used today, the spacer goes between the bearing and the BB shell - and moves the bearing and crankarm outwards. Most extBB's already have one 5mm spacer on the driveside to make up the difference between 68mm and 73mm shell width - and often have a second one to allow use of a plate type front derailer (also known as E type), or not. The point is - that there are enough threads on the bearing cup to allow this.


I second this. I am running about 4mm of spacers on the driveside under the bb bearing and a triple runs fine, though shifting to the granny is slow. I tried a 5mm setup and it was perfect, but haven't had a chance to switch back. I also have one cog moved to the back of the cassette to help the chainline on that end. In 24f36r the chain will tap the tire a bit on the return side, but in that gear I'm going very slow, so it doesn't make a difference and I barely notice even when riding a loaded krampus.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

You guys are killing my bank account... and storage space. Daddy want... but I don't know why. I rode a Pugs a while back. Loved it the first time, then I got one on an actual trail and not so much. So, I'm not sure why I want this, but I do. 

Damn you, irrational wants!!


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

here's my spacers and here's my clearance.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Interesting! Thanks Steve. There's more clearance than I would have expected - are you using Rabbit Holes? And is there any chance you could post two more pictures (one for each side) with the cranks parallel to the chainstays showing how much clearance there is along the length of the arms between them and the stays??? I'm trying to get a handle on how much crank clearance there is as I'd like to use the lowest Q cranks possible, and am wondering if anything I have is likely to work.

Thanks in advance.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

SteveJfromtheSwitch said:


> here's my spacers and here's my clearance.....


Cool. Good to see that works.

I just got my "revised" crankset back. Will see how it works later today.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

pimpbot said:


> You guys are killing my bank account... and storage space. Daddy want... but I don't know why. I rode a Pugs a while back. Loved it the first time, then I got one on an actual trail and not so much. So, I'm not sure why I want this, but I do.
> 
> Damn you, irrational wants!!


What's the Krampus like on single track?


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

Gouda Cheez said:


> What's the Krampus like on single track?


I did just ONE ride on mine prior to my gearing project. All singletrack. Loved it.... but its hard to describe. Its so different. It felt just plain faster than my 20 year old Litespeed. The fat tires seem to hang on tight in corners, and the steering felt pretty crisp. My next project is to take the Krampus on all my regular rides, and compare the feel to the old bike. Then I'll really know the difference.

the no front suspension thing is a mixed bag. The soft fat tire smooths out the overall ride. But big hits are still a little jarring. So, I consider that a wash, and will probly stick with the rigid fork.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

That's why the Krampus is appealing to me. I'm looking for something that's fun on a trail and fun on the sidewalk. The 1x10 makes me a little nervous when climbing (rocky single track) around here, but we will see how it feels on a test ride.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

Gouda Cheez said:


> That's why the Krampus is appealing to me. I'm looking for something that's fun on a trail and fun on the sidewalk. The 1x10 makes me a little nervous when climbing (rocky single track) around here, but we will see how it feels on a test ride.


The 1x10 is lame.... unless its the gear range you are used to riding.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

drummerdavid said:


> The 1x10 is lame.... unless its the gear range you are used to riding.


Or you are used to riding a singlespeed, then it feels like a huge range!

Or there is now a cheaper option to XX1 super wide range cassettes. 
First Look: General Lee Wide-Range Cassette Adapter - Pinkbike


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I don't know how I feel about 1x10. I like the idea of simplicity but making a long climb scares me. Guess it's time to work on my fitness a bit.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

^ I am here to tell you that 1x11 (XX1) IS the answer to all drivetrain questions. It's the most amazing thing I have ever experienced, and I will now be using it on all my bikes (in time, as funds allow). This is the answer to single ring gearing!

Trust me, Having XX1 is like cheating. 

Disclaimer; I do not work for SRAM.


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

satanas said:


> Interesting! Thanks Steve. There's more clearance than I would have expected - are you using Rabbit Holes? And is there any chance you could post two more pictures (one for each side) with the cranks parallel to the chainstays showing how much clearance there is along the length of the arms between them and the stays??? I'm trying to get a handle on how much crank clearance there is as I'd like to use the lowest Q cranks possible, and am wondering if anything I have is likely to work.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


here ya go! about 9mm on non drive side and 13mm on drive side.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

ale50ale said:


> ^ I am here to tell you that 1x11 (XX1) IS the answer to all drivetrain questions. It's the most amazing thing I have ever experienced, and I will now be using it on all my bikes (in time, as funds allow). This is the answer to single ring gearing!
> 
> Trust me, Having XX1 is like cheating.
> 
> Disclaimer; I do not work for SRAM.


I wish it wasn't $1000+ ... otherwise I bet it's a great solution!


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## noniinno (Dec 19, 2006)

___


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## noniinno (Dec 19, 2006)

My Krampus at http://www.fat-tired.com/
sorry, finnish only...
In the past I owned Moonlander, but the ride reminded tractor driving. Krampus is a supple, lively and fast. Krampus = The best bike I have ever driven (I have had 20 mountain bikes...)


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

noniinno said:


> My Krampus at http://www.fat-tired.com/


*This blog is open to invited readers only*

Can't see it


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## noniinno (Dec 19, 2006)

Ok, my bad.. it´s open now...


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

For those that are not fans of the tire/yoke clearance (when the wheel is pushed to the front of the dropout), I have solved this concern. I "shaved" down the monkey nuts (took a bench grinder and effectively chopped each one in half). I now have ample clearance for mud, yet have retained good clearance for the deraileaur. Shifting speeds are also unaffected.


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

Just saw a 29+ from Engin Cycles while riding tonight at Belmont Plateau here in Philly. Lots os really subtle, trick bits like a rigid fork with a 15mm axle... 
In the wild on day one | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Gigantic said:


> Just saw a 29+ from Engin Cycles while riding tonight at Belmont Plateau here in Philly. Lots os really subtle, trick bits like a rigid fork with a 15mm axle...
> In the wild on day one | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


Damn... What a beautiful bike.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

SteveJfromtheSwitch said:


> here ya go! about 9mm on non drive side and 13mm on drive side.


Thanks Steve, much appreciated! I'll go and do some go and measuring...


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Gigantic said:


> Just saw a 29+ from Engin Cycles while riding tonight at Belmont Plateau here in Philly. Lots os really subtle, trick bits like a rigid fork with a 15mm axle...
> In the wild on day one | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


Yes, and he will build you a Ti one if you like!! His stuff is georgeous.

He also built a 29+ tandem!

https://oldglorymtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/2013-nahbs-engin-cycles-fat-bike-tandem.jpg


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

That Engin is a beauty!


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

Mastodon:

Mastodon Sighting | 38 Frameworks

Reminds me of a nine:zero:seven fatbike.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

lancelot said:


> That Engin is a beauty!


I would love to be able to afford something like that. Up until my wife and I conceived, i was searching extensively for a low-cost mtb tandem, but they're just tough to find if you're not in socal. I know a couple of guys who occasionally build frames, and I've considered at some point having them chop up a krampus or fat bike that accepts 29+ to use as a rear triangle for a custom tandem. Not much of a hurry now with all sots of new expenses likely to come along.


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

TooSteep said:


> Mastodon:
> 
> Mastodon Sighting | 38 Frameworks
> 
> Reminds me of a nine:zero:seven fatbike.


4.1lbs! Nice!


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

Loving my Krampus! Bought the frame (L), fork (Carver carbon), RHs, Tires and bars (Carver Ti) from Bikeman.com. I have no affiliation at all, but Forrest Carver was really great to work with. Had the wheels built up by Tim at Bicycle Sport Shop in Austin (he owns a Krampus himself) with DT Swiss 240 hubs scavenged from another wheelset, and got the bike rolling two weeks ago. I set it up tubeless right out of the gate using some tips and tricks I read in another forum, and have had zero issues with burping or losing air.

The rest of the build is XTR M970 crankset, Dean Ti post, WTB Silverado saddle, WCS stem, and of course the blue Magura Marta SLs that inspired the whole color scheme.

I've got to admit that I'm chuckling a little at the posts saying that 1x10 doesn't provide enough gearing...  I'm running 32x20 and have *loved* the bike on all the uber chunky, techy, hilly stuff I've been riding in ATX. More cushion = more pushin', but holy crap, it's fun!

Complete build w/ pedals is 25.0 lbs.

Here are a few pics of the build and the bike in action...


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

CCSS said:


> ....I've got to admit that I'm chuckling a little at the posts saying that 1x10 doesn't provide enough gearing...  I'm running 32x20 and have *loved* the bike on all the uber chunky, techy, hilly stuff I've been riding in ATX. More cushion = more pushin', but holy crap, it's fun!


I'm talking rides with climbs of 1000 or 2000 ft or more in elev, in one shot with some steeps. That kind of thing.

You know. "mountain" biking.

I'm also like 45 y/o and my knees appear to have a shelf life.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

Still chuckling  I'm also 45 years old and get in 1500-2000 ft of climbing on a typical 15-20 mile ride. Austin might not be "mountainous," but it's legitimately hilly and pretty damn technical. The Krampus loves it!


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

Hey ccss, I'm in Austin as well. I've been on the krampus for a few months and have had the pleasure of riding some of the spots in your pics. We should get a krampus ride sometime, I would love to check out your fork in person, I have been eying some for my bike for a while


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

CCSS said:


> Still chuckling  I'm also 45 years old and get in 1500-2000 ft of climbing on a typical 15-20 mile ride. Austin might not be "mountainous," but it's legitimately hilly and pretty damn technical. The Krampus loves it!


I just want "normal" mountain bike gears..... which I now have.

Why is that funny?


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

Also, fwiw I took my krampus to Moab a few weeks back and found the 1x10 to be plenty for the trails there. I do love the single speed setup for austin though.


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

CCSS - Which Carver carbon fork are you using?

Thanks.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Hey boys, check out the cool rims from Schlick Cycles. Has anyone tried these?

http://schlickcycles.com/2013/05/08/northpaw-29er-rims-now-available/


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

TooSteep said:


> CCSS - Which Carver carbon fork are you using?
> 
> Thanks.


Hey, TooSteep. It's the "old style" Carver, carbon, tapered 29er fork. Just ping Forrest at Bikeman and he'll hook you up. It's amazingly affordable compared to the Niner carbon fork.

I'll admit that I did have to have the post mounts faced before I could get the brakes to align, but the extra $23 was still worth it. If I remember correctly, the Carver xc470 fork is 1.3 lbs lighter than the stock Surly fork, and it's amazingly lively...


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

drummerdavid said:


> I just want "normal" mountain bike gears..... which I now have.
> 
> Why is that funny?


DrummerDavid -- I guess I'm a fan of the new normal. I haven't ridden a triple ring drivetrain in really really long time. Rock what you like. Have fun on your Krampus.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

CCSS said:


> Hey, TooSteep. Oops. If I remember correctly, the *Carver* fork is 1.3 lbs lighter than the stock Surly fork, and it's amazingly lively...


Too many Friday nite beers...


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

tim_w_sage said:


> Also, fwiw I took my krampus to Moab a few weeks back and found the 1x10 to be plenty for the trails there. I do love the single speed setup for austin though.


Tim, I'd love to get together to ride. Tim K. and Skot at BSS are both Krampus guys, and Luke from BSS is running a knard on the front of his rigid 29er. Let's assemble a big group! I'm going to ride pace bend tomorrow and the GB on Sunday (8:00 at 360) I you're interested.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

CCSS said:


> DrummerDavid -- I guess I'm a fan of the new normal. I haven't ridden a triple ring drivetrain in really really long time. Rock what you like. Have fun on your Krampus.


Well, with the 11-36, a double is plenty to get me a gear range similar to what I ran on my my previous bike, a 20 year old Litespeed. Its working great so far. Completely loving the rides. I wouldnt be surprised if 5 years from now 20% of all mtbs sold are the 29+ platform.


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

CCSS said:


> Tim, I'd love to get together to ride. Tim K. and Skot at BSS are both Krampus guys, and Luke from BSS is running a knard on the front of his rigid 29er. Let's assemble a big group! I'm going to ride pace bend tomorrow and the GB on Sunday (8:00 at 360) I you're interested.


I am stuck at work on overtime. Count me in for next time though.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

After a few months of rolling on Knards and a Flow/Alfine 11 IGH wheel set I was confident enough in my Krampus stoke to get a set of Rabbit Hole rims and repurpose a Rohloff I had in a 26er wheel I wasn't using.










The RHs spread out the Knards so that they are noticeably wider than on the Flows. I've set them up with tubes for now because I have a couple backcountry tours coming up and I didn't want to futz with tubeless until I can put in a decent amount of saddle time locally working out any issues.










I had to do some surgery to the right Ergon Grip to fit the Rohloff shifter in comfortably. The Krampus doesn't have any cable stops for a Rohloff so I went with zipties on the downtube and left chainstay. Not pretty, but functional - with two hose clamped on water bottle cages that kind of sums up my Krampus build. 










I installed the Rohloff with a Monkey Bone disc brake adapter and OEM2 axle plate for a clean torque control setup. I ended up using a Shimano QR, Surly Tugnut and a a dab of Shoe Goo on the non-drive side to keep the wheel from moving under pedal and brake forces.

Rohloff is geared 32T x 16T. Slightly below legal, but my warranty is long gone and I am not a powerful rider.










Front wheel got a Hope hub. I have several of them and a bunch of their axle adapters. It's dead easy to move them from bike to bike as needed, easy to maintain and they haven't let me down yet. I used a DT Swiss RWS skewer with a 9mm axle up front to keep the wheel locked down.

I've got two 4 day tours scheduled for July. I'll report back after those with a comparison to the Alfine 11/Flow/Knard setup.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

updates...

New fangled. | drj0nswanderings


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

vikb said:


> .... I've set them up with tubes for now because I have a couple backcountry tours coming up and I didn't want to futz with tubeless until I can put in a decent amount of saddle time locally working out any issues.
> 
> ... I ended up using a Shimano QR, Surly Tugnut and a a dab of Shoe Goo on the non-drive side to keep the wheel from moving under pedal and brake forces.


@vikb, wrt to your tubeless concern, I've been really pleased with the way my RH tubeless conversion worked out (with the exception of my "busted Knard" yesterday . Lots of miles, no burps, no air loss - just yesterdays pinch from running pressure too low and goofing around... I'm happy to share when you're ready.

As for the back wheel fixing, I thought a lot about this, too, since I'm running SS. I ended up with a conventional (salsa) skewer because it's long, and two surly tug nuts. I'm amazed at how well it's held thru some gnarly rides, and especially with how easy it has been to get the wheel centered, the chain tensioned and the rotor aligned.

Overall, very cool FrankenKrampus mods to your bike-packing monster! Surly would be proud.


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## noniinno (Dec 19, 2006)

My Krampy got new fork and I made some modification to my trailer due to clearance issues..









The new fork has length 465mm an it makes the handling much faster - bike turns more easily, but do not feel nervous. Much better than original IMO.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

CCSS said:


> @vikb, wrt to your tubeless concern, I've been really pleased with the way my RH tubeless conversion worked out (with the exception of my "busted Knard" yesterday . Lots of miles, no burps, no air loss - just yesterdays pinch from running pressure too low and goofing around... I'm happy to share when you're .


Hey, I'm on the outside looking in! Please share your tubeless knowledge. I have a Krampus that I would like to set up tubeless!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

ale50ale said:


> Hey, I'm on the outside looking in! Please share your tubeless knowledge. I have a Krampus that I would like to set up tubeless!


Check out the Fat Bike Forum loads of info on how to setup Surly single walled rims tubeless.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

*My Tubeless Process...*



ale50ale said:


> Hey, I'm on the outside looking in! Please share your tubeless knowledge. I have a Krampus that I would like to set up tubeless!


@vikb is right -- there's lots of info out there on various people's experiences with tubeless conversion. Some is more helpful than others. Having converted plenty of "regular" 29er wheelsets/tires to tubeless, I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted to do -- and what I hoped to avoid... I wanted to avoid the "ghetto tubeless/split tube" approach. I wanted to avoid lots of sticky gorilla tape residue on my rims. I wanted to avoid building up the center channel with foam (if possible). etc, etc. I was able to accomplish all of these objectives.

Here's the process I came up with:

1) Tape down whatever you're going to use as a rim strip (just anchoring at the ends). I used standard blue tarp - cut in strips. It's lighter and cheaper than the Surly rim strips, and the tape I used sticks to it more effectively.

2) Do four tight wraps with 48mm, 3M 8898 strapping tape. Welcome to R.S.Hughes (I ordered mine from Amazon.com). I wasn't perfectly centered with my wraps, so I ended up going a tiny bit back and forth towards either bead socket with each wrap. Honestly, you could probably do five or six wraps for an even tighter bead + socket interface, because the tire still went on easily with four wraps, but four works.

3) Heat something up to melt your valve stem holes. I heated up an awl with a lighter.

4) Seat the Knard beads without sealant. I used a compressor and the beads seated easily, but wouldn't inflate past about 15 lbs due to air escaping from the bead socket. After adding Orange Seal (I highly recommend this stuff even though it's more expensive than Stan's), I pumped the tires to about 35 lbs and then was worried about sealant seeping quickly from the bead/rim interface. But I shook and bounced the wheels, and they sealed up. Later, when I lowered the pressure down to ~15 lbs, the bead/rim interface seeped again, and I thought, "****, this isn't gonna work," but I shook and bounced them some more, and they sealed again and have remained sealed for many legit rides. No leaking... No burping... When I took off the rear tire this past weekend to patch my pinched holes, it went right back on and sealed immediately.

No reason to hold off going tubeless with a Krampus!

Enjoy.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

CCSS said:


> No reason to hold off going tubeless with a Krampus!


my wire bead knards burped like crazy, so I went back to tubes. I enjoyed ghetto tubeless with a variety of tire and rim combinations, but these just wouldn't work.

low-density foam under the rim strip allows for easily seating the bead with a hand pump.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

CCSS said:


> No reason to hold off going tubeless with a Krampus!
> 
> Enjoy.


Thanks for your detailed description of the tubeless set up that works for you.

This is far easier than scrolling through all of the "opinions" in the fat bike thread.

I have a set of the new Schlick Northpaw 29+ rims on the way, so I am going to set them up tubeless with the 120tpi Knards.

Cheers.


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## jgorrilla (Apr 2, 2008)

For my tubeless setup, after a couple tries I arrived at this solution which has been working very well.

With a Rabbit Hole, I took standard Surly RH rim strips and enlarged the valve hole a couple of millimeters so it was larger than the rim valve hole. This is to give the tape a chance to stick to the rim around the hole instead of the rim strip. Put the valves in to keep the rim strip from rotating. I used standard Stan's valves. Using standard 2" Gorilla tape and starting opposite the valve hole and pulling the tape very tight, (while being careful not to rotate the rim strip) work the tape into the rim cavity. I found the left right sawing motion to work well to get the tape into the cavity and under the beads. Take the valve out when you get to it, the rim strip should be stable by then. Go around the rim twice. Once didn't work for me, I tried it a couple of times and the sealant would work its way under the tape and the tire rotated on the rim under braking. After you have completed the second layer, cut the tape and using your hand, smooth out the tape. If you pulled tightly enough, you shouldn't have much work. Take something small and semi-rigid, I used and old spoke, and push the tape into the bead sockets to make sure it was tight and under the bead hook. Punch the valve hole. I just cut an X.

Now to the good stuff. I have Knard 120 tires, one which seated with no fooling around and the other which required some fuss. I put tubes in both tires and pumped with up to 30+ psi. The beads may pop in, but they may just slip in without any noise. Check the tire to make sure it's evenly seated. I left the wheels overnight, but I don't think this is necessary. This step is to snap one bead in the rim for easier tubeless later and to push the tape down tightly.

Unseat one bead, take the tube out, put the valve in and tighten it as tightly as you can, pump or compressor reseat the bead again. If you have problems, I took an old tube, tied a knot in it to make the diameter smaller, put it around the tire to flatten it against the rim and push the bead out and had no problems reseating after that. Pull the cores and put in your sealant of choice. I used 2 ounces. Bounce the tire if anything is bleeding air, but I didn't lose much pressure even with minimal bouncing. I rode the tires for 4 hours immediately after setting them up and didn't lose more than a pound according to the pressure gage. I was running them between 18 and 15 psi.

Two turns of Gorilla tape was less than 100 grams by my scale.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

My Krampus tubeless? Split tube. Simple, effective, great seal, holds air without sealant, but I run sealant anyway, takes less than 10 minutes to set up, no failures to date.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

jgorrilla said:


> .
> 
> Two turns of Gorilla tape was less than 100 grams by my scale.


100g static on a wheel = 500g rotating mass.
This is what I am trying to avoid


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

How big are 29+ wheels? Knard/Rabbit Hole wheels against a small, 700c road bike.


Big Wheels - Small Bike by jon_baler, on Flickr


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> My Krampus tubeless? Split tube. Simple, effective, great seal, holds air without sealant, but I run sealant anyway, takes less than 10 minutes to set up, no failures to date.


Good to hear. I'll probably go split tube on my krampus after the next tour.


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

I'm going to try going tubeless on my Krampus. I've been getting a few flats on the rear lately, and I can't seem to figure out the cause - seems like a sort of abrasion flat. The threads on the sidewall (which seems particularly thin compared to front) seem to be rubbing the tube. But in the course of checking things out I've noticed the beads on my rear Knard are getting pretty chewed up - seemed to be a lot of wear on bead/rim contact point. Also, just above the bead there are tears going right around the tire - they haven't worked there way completely through yet, but I can't see it taking too much longer. I've attached some pictures, I hope it shows things. Anybody else seeing the same? I remember a while back there was a post about something similar, although this doesn't seem as bad as that guy's. Not a lot of miles on the bike, so a bit disappointing.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Chunky, what tire pressure are you running?


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

Around 13 psi. I usually inflate to about 15, then adjust by feel. On the rear it's probably close to 15.



Bacons said:


> Chunky, what tire pressure are you running?


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Seems like a good pressure... and what I run with ultra-lite 29" tubes. Can you take a pic of your wear-hole on the tube? Not sure why the tire would be causing the flat. Are you sure it's not a pinch-flat?
If it's not that, I'd take the tire to your LBS for inspection... and possible warranty replacement.


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

No pics of the tube. I suspected a pinch flat - but it's not. Happened a couple of times. I'm pretty sure it's from the threads in sidewall rubbing against tube (kind of like with an old tire on a trainer - damages the sidewall after a lot of wear, then rubs through tube). Flats I can deal with (go tubeless etc.), but I am a bit more concerned about wear around beads on tire. Not a cheap tire. I do plan on taking it in to the shop to see what they have to say.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

chunkylover53 said:


> No pics of the tube. I suspected a pinch flat - but it's not. Happened a couple of times. I'm pretty sure it's from the threads in sidewall rubbing against tube (kind of like with an old tire on a trainer - damages the sidewall after a lot of wear, then rubs through tube). Flats I can deal with (go tubeless etc.), but I am a bit more concerned about wear around beads on tire. Not a cheap tire. I do plan on taking it in to the shop to see what they have to say.


Mine did the same thing. Manufacturing issue. Surly replaced it.

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/knard-tire-failure-841862.html?highlight=knard+failure


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## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

I decided to stick with tubes for now. Using an ultra-light 26 x 2.1 tube and a whole diaper-load of talcum powder inside the 120 TPI tire to ward off abrasion. I've been running 11-ish PSI on some fairly rooty trails with no problems yet. Knock on wood.


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## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> My Krampus tubeless? Split tube. Simple, effective, great seal, holds air without sealant, but I run sealant anyway, takes less than 10 minutes to set up, no failures to date.


This is how I have had it set up since the beginning of the year. No issues for me.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

deuxdiesel said:


> I decided to stick with tubes for now...


Same here. I have no doubts in my abilities to set up tubeless on my Krampus, but lightweight 29" tubes with some Stan's is very clean, easy and is preventing flats the same as tubeless. I have no problem keeping this setup.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Picked up my Krampus today. Super excited to get out there with it!


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

Anyone have traction issues in wet conditions? I've noticed on wet anything I'm sliding around like a mother. Might just be a general "you're on a bike and it's wet" issue but it seems like I've got very low contact area with the higher PSI I'm running right now.


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## og1 (Mar 3, 2008)

salt_fish said:


> ...seems like I've got very low contact area with the higher PSI I'm running right now.


seems like you answered your own question right there. I run 15PSI with great results.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I run 15-17psi and still have rear wheel slippage on wet rocks and roots. It's surprising to me that I'm getting slippage with low pressure, a big contact patch and such soft rubber. Speaking of soft rubber, are anybody's Knards wearing out much quicker than they were expecting? Is this just a Surly tire thing? Going back to the slippage, it's only on the rear wheel under heavy pedalling, no issues for me up front on turns. I was very pleased with the overall wet rock/root traction compared to anything else I've ridden.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Posted on this very topic in another Krampus thread just today. The Knards are proving to be super slick in anything but dry hardpack. Grip out back has been very good. But my front end washes out very easily. I've messed with pressures from 8lbs. on. No good results. I am now convinced that the sidewall needs a more aggressive knob. All of my washouts have occurred in corners, wet, semi-damp and loose conditions. Two wrecks this season, ribs bruised both times. I can't wait for a better tire so I can really wring out this bike.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Could be rider-error  (I'm kidding) I have been saying this for many months, I would love to see some Nates, or similar, for my Krampus. I WILL be buying at least one for the front to try out when something else is made.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Haha. I was thinking that too. But over the past 5 years on my fat bike, single and Multi-speed 9'ers, I've had one wash out fall. 
I'd kill for a 29+ Nate for the front.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Bacons said:


> The Knards are proving to be super slick in anything but dry hardpack.


They may not be a mud tire, but this seems to be a little of an over-statement. I raced over 80 miles yesterday at an extremely technical course with some mud and never once lost control. Patapsco 100 (the new and hardest 100 mile race you've never heard of)
Patapsco 100: Rob Spreng ?I typically don?t DNF. I wanted to?? | dirtwire.tv
Patapsco 100: Lance Byrd ?Every time you go fast, something hits you in the freakin? nuts? | dirtwire.tv

I love that this tires still rolls fast enough that I don't mind riding the roads to the trailhead, and yet climbs like a monster.

PATAPSCO 100 | dirtwire.tv


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

Yesterday I was on a narrow (2 feet?) trail with lots of roots on the edge of a ravine. My back tire slipped sideways on a wet root and I ditched the bike and slid maybe 15 feet down in the dirt. Totally uninjured, I blame myself for not knowing how slippery wet roots are.

Today I biked to work and was showing a coworker my bike in the parking lot. Rode through some planters filled with rocks, jumped a couple curbs, speed through some grass and then completely wiped out afterwards during a low speed turn on wet asphalt. Took me completely by surprise because I had lots of traction all day before this. Maybe it was an oily spot who knows. My arm is p. gnarly looking but my pride is hurt worse than anything


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

Bacons said:


> Posted on this very topic in another Krampus thread just today. The Knards are proving to be super slick in anything but dry hardpack. Grip out back has been very good. But my front end washes out very easily. I've messed with pressures from 8lbs. on. No good results. I am now convinced that the sidewall needs a more aggressive knob. All of my washouts have occurred in corners, wet, semi-damp and loose conditions. Two wrecks this season, ribs bruised both times. I can't wait for a better tire so I can really wring out this bike.


Your not on your own Buddy, at the moment in the UK it have been dry for a few weeks so no problems and tyres are great. As soon as the ground gets wet an greasy the front will wash leaving zero confidence to attack and get the full potential from the Krampus. Agree we need a front tyre with side lugs, possibly a semi-slick, come-on Surly please sort it. Otherwise the Krampus is awesome.

I did read somewhere on the forum that another manufacturer was doing a 29+ tyre cant remember the spec though.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Traction in all sorts of wet stuff is great for me and I ride fast and hard. It's rained just about every day for the last couple of months and I have ridden in tons of mud (not a problem on my trails) and muck.

I did slide out while bikepacking with it when doing a slow u-turn on a dirt road. hurt my pride too, as a car was nearby and stopped until I waved them on.


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

PretendGentleman said:


> Traction in all sorts of wet stuff is great for me and I ride fast and hard. It's rained just about every day for the last couple of months and I have ridden in tons of mud (not a problem on my trails) and muck.
> 
> I did slide out while bikepacking with it when doing a slow u-turn on a dirt road. hurt my pride too, as a car was nearby and stopped until I waved them on.


Ah you see Im but a mere mortal I dont have your superhuman powers  lol


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

Does anyone know what the Pantone or RAL colour code for '*Moonlit Swamp*' is? Its the name of the current Krampus paint job, I know its not one solid colour as such so i'm not sure if there actually is a valid answer. It just might be nice for excessively OCD colour matching for rim tape...


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

You can grab this image and use image software to pull the color values. I'm not sure how carefully surly was with matching the color though.

https://surlybikes.com//uploads/bikes/swatch_krampus.jpg


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

Yeah I've considered that and it generally works more or less, however an image like that could also not be perfectly accurate depending how it was processed to put on the web, an actual colour code of the average colour would be handy.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

First time out on the trail with the Krampus. Everyone thought I was a bit of a lunatic on the trail with a rigid. Guessing most of them don't know too much about the Krampus. 

I was impressed with the traction and it climbed much better than I expected. I just need to get in better shape.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2013)

Gouda Cheez said:


> First time out on the trail with the Krampus. Everyone thought I was a bit of a lunatic on the trail with a rigid. Guessing most of them don't know too much about the Krampus.
> 
> I was impressed with the traction and it climbed much better than I expected. I just need to get in better shape.


use it and be ready for the transformation.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

krampus put to good use...




























To return, so soon? | drj0nswanderings


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

dRjOn said:


> krampus put to good use...


Thanks for the Krampus ride report. Great to see them out 'xploring! :thumbsup:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My buddy built up a Knard/RH rear wheel for his fatbike. He liked it a lot on a tour last weekend.










However, his 27tpi Knard got a sidewall puncture. It was setup split-tube tubeless. The hole wouldn't seal well with Stan's inside so he patched it from the outside and got it to hold air pretty good. I assume he'll patch the hole from the inside now that he's at home.

My 120tpi Knards [tubed] didn't get any flats.

Still too early to say how they will hold up longterm. I keep my fingers crossed I don't have any issues real far from the trailhead.










So far I am loving the Krampus as a camping and 'xploring bike...:thumbsup:


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Those pictures are awesome, especially that last one with the waterfall.

Here's one from my ride yesterday - only about 1/4 up the hill.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Steve5S said:


> Ah you see Im but a mere mortal I dont have your superhuman powers  lol


I wonder if my good traction experience also relates to my decision to buy a smaller size based on cockpit fit rather than going with surly's recommendations (that I think are a bit shoddy).

By buying based on your typical size (e.g., I've always run a medium, so I should get a medium krampus, right? they say yes, I say get a small), you get a bike that has a really long front end. Stretching out the front end results in less weight on the front wheel, meaning traction suffers for that wheel.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

Loving the first few rides, though i'm thinking of putting a double crank such as Surly's OD Crank so there's a few lower gears to haul up hills on (I tend to be towing a Single Trailer pretty often).


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

Alex.C said:


> Loving the first few rides, though* i'm thinking of putting a double crank such as Surly's OD Crank* so there's a few lower gears to haul up hills on (I tend to be towing a Single Trailer pretty often).


I changed the stock ZEE single into a double, with some warranty-voiding machining. Works pretty well so far, and the chainlines are very close to the OD.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

drummerdavid said:


> I changed the stock ZEE single into a double, with some warranty-voiding machining. Works pretty well so far, and the chainlines are very close to the OD.


I'm interested to see that, do you mind posting some pics of it?


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

Alex.C said:


> I'm interested to see that, do you mind posting some pics of it?


For sure. Perhaps in the OD crank thread. Give me a few hours.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Have any of you converted to a 180mm front rotor? I'm a noob and don't know what adapter I need. :-/

Any advice?


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

Anyone know what the frame reach is, XL if possible?


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

EGF168 said:


> Anyone know what the frame reach is, XL if possible?


I've never heard of frame reach, but like most bike companies, surly does have geometry on their website. you can also google krampus geometry and it's the first link, but I'll make it really easy.
Krampus | Bikes | Surly Bikes


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Stack & reach is how some companies are starting to express their bikes' sizing.

Surly doesn't provide that info. I'd measured it for you, but I ride a Medium.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Have any of you converted to a 180mm front rotor? I'm a noob and don't know what adapter I need. :-/
> 
> Any advice?


Did you buy a complete Krampus? The Surly website lists it as coming with a 180mm disc brake.

If that's not what you have any LBS can sell you a 180mm rotor and the correct adapter.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I need more carrying capacity for my next tour than my Porcelain Rocket seatbag can offer and didn't want to ride with an uber heavy pack. So I mounted up an OMM rear rack on the Krampus.










Fitting the OMM rack with a Surly Tug Nut proved to be a slight PITA, but nothing I couldn't deal with once I busted out my dremel tool!










I've used this rack on dirt tours before and it's worked great, but I'll miss having a narrow lightly loaded bike that I can thrash without a second thought.

These OMM racks are pretty nice and made in the US.










I'll be going back to a lightweight setup for the rest of my tours this year.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

vikb said:


> Did you buy a complete Krampus? The Surly website lists it as coming with a 180mm disc brake.
> 
> If that's not what you have any LBS can sell you a 180mm rotor and the correct adapter.


This is going to sound odd as hell, and forgive me for not knowing much, but my Krampus was built by a LBS and has a 160 up front and a 180 rear. 99% sure anyway... I'll have to look again tonight.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

And I'll add to it... I'm struggling to figure out which adapter I need... that's why I asked the question.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Gouda Cheez said:


> This is going to sound odd as hell, and forgive me for not knowing much, but my Krampus was built by a LBS and has a 160 up front and a 180 rear. 99% sure anyway... I'll have to look again tonight.


Your front brake provides most of the braking on any bike. It doesn't take much braking force to skid the rear wheel after which any additional braking is useless.

If you have a bigger rotor on the rear than the front I would swap them.

My Krampus was built from a frame/fork and I use a 180 up front and a 160 in the back.



Gouda Cheez said:


> And I'll add to it... I'm struggling to figure out which adapter I need... that's why I asked the question.


Given your unfamiliarity with your brakes I would take the bike back to your LBS and see if it was assembled correctly. If not they should fix anything for free.

They can also sell you the rotor and adapter you need as well as install them for you if they didn't goof during assembly.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Vik... what gearing are you running front and back?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Bacons said:


> Vik... what gearing are you running front and back?


Currently I've got a 36T ring with a 16T cog on the Rohloff.

I've got a 34T ring coming that I will swap in as I don't use the high end of the Rohloff much for MTBing or touring.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

vikb said:


> Your front brake provides most of the braking on any bike. It doesn't take much braking force to skid the rear wheel after which any additional braking is useless.
> 
> If you have a bigger rotor on the rear than the front I would swap them.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the help. Noticed in a few Krampus reviews that folks mentioned swapping their 160 out for a 180... So apparently I'm not alone.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

By any chance did anyone get the front derailleur clamp adaptor with their complete built?

I notice in the document:

http://surlybikes.com/uploads/downloads/1094_SUR_Krampus_insert_Sheet.pdf

It says:



> Front derailleur compatibility: High direct mount standard, clamp adapter included


However mine didn't include it...


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

vikb said:


> Stack & reach is how some companies are starting to express their bikes' sizing.
> 
> Surly doesn't provide that info. I'd measured it for you, but I ride a Medium.


cool, I hadn't seen that reinvention of the wheel. It looks like you can use their fork and ht length plus ht angle to calculate the stack, and then use that, bb drop, and seat angle to calculate the share of ett behind the bb, then subtract it from ett and you've got reach to the center of the steerer at the top of the headtube. This assumes that you ignore the bend in the seattube and just use their seattube angle as if the bend didn't exist.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Alex.C said:


> By any chance did anyone get the front derailleur clamp adaptor with their complete built?
> 
> I notice in the document:
> 
> ...


A der mount came my frame/fork.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

vikb said:


> A der mount came my frame/fork.


Maybe it just comes with framesets, not a complete. Now that I re-read that document I think its the insert for frame/forks not a complete...

You wouldn't happen to need that mount would you considering you're using a gear-hub?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Alex.C said:


> Maybe it just comes with framesets, not a complete. Now that I re-read that document I think its the insert for frame/forks not a complete...
> 
> You wouldn't happen to need that mount would you considering you're using a gear-hub?


I'd like to keep it as my Surly builds morph over time.

I'd try asking Surly if they have any spares they can send you.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

Ok thanks anyway.

Yeah i'm investigating where I can get one, however is the one you got with the frame one of these?:

Problem Solvers


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Alex.C said:


> Ok thanks anyway.
> 
> Yeah i'm investigating where I can get one, however is the one you got with the frame one of these?:
> 
> Problem Solvers


It looks the same - just no writing on the one with the Krampus.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't receive the clamp or the chain guide it supposedly comes with. I may take Vik's recommendation and reach out to Surly.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Alex.C said:


> Maybe it just comes with framesets, not a complete. Now that I re-read that document I think its the insert for frame/forks not a complete...
> 
> You wouldn't happen to need that mount would you considering you're using a gear-hub?


 i did not get one either with my complete. i emailed surly once and never got a response.


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## logipunk (Jul 19, 2013)

hey guys , quick ? i have regular thule roof rack , with a front fork lock , and issues with loading a krampus on one of these ...........
thanks


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## jgorrilla (Apr 2, 2008)

No issues other than needing a longer strap to hold the rear wheel down.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

I was working out the parts to get to give a Krampus complete another ring and keep it as 'similar' as possible to existing parts and came up with this list:

* Front derailleur adapter (Krampus supplied one or a Problem Solver)
* Surly OD Crankset (73mm)
* Shimano SLX FD-M676-D Front Derailleur
* Shimano SLX SL-M670 left shifter

The front rings of 26/39 (the 73mm OD Crankset come with as standard) with the stock cassette (11-36) on the back yields a gear ratio range of: 3.55 - 0.72, not super big but an improvement over the stock in both directions. 

I might be able to change the small ring to a 22t (58mm BCD), but i'm having trouble finding an OD crank anywhere that's not a complete crankset - would have to get the crankset and replace the ring..

Does anyone have any opinion on this setup? Especially about the FD-M676-D I think its the right kind, ie dual pull/top pull. (Other than that it just might have been a better idea to just have built it up from the bare frame)


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

I have one I will sell. $15+ shipping. Alex C gets first dibs. Want it?


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

PM'd


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Sold!

Thx. Alex C.


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

jgorrilla said:


> No issues other than needing a longer strap to hold the rear wheel down.


There is another option, let some air out of the tire. I used to use 3.0 tires on my DH rig back in the day, had to let some air out to get the strap over the tire. Just another idea, either one works.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

The Krampus and the Ogre have a love child called the ECR.

Surly Brings Back the Instigator with 26+, Adds ECR 29+ and Straggler Disc

Breaking: New bikes from Surly, including a mini-fat? | Dirt Rag Magazine

ECR:

- loses 44mm HT
- different geo
- more braze-ons
- Orge-sque dropouts
- 2 x 10


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## islander (Jan 21, 2004)

Me thinks the ECR has vikb's number to a T.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

Alex.C said:


> I was working out the parts to get to give a Krampus complete another ring and keep it as 'similar' as possible to existing parts and came up with this list:
> 
> * Front derailleur adapter (Krampus supplied one or a Problem Solver)
> * Surly OD Crankset (73mm)
> ...


Sorry I didnt post my ZEE-double hack job yet. Been super busy.
.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

The ECR looks "vewy interesting" to quote Daffy Duck. That's a huge frame to make the 29+ wheels look so small but I'm looking forward to seeing more of this bike. Any colors or just "bodily function" brown? In any case, more bikepacking bikes in the world is a good thing.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

Quick question - size large frame weight?

I have a friend considering building up a Krampus, and he just asked me how much my large frame weighs. Of course I was so anxious to build mine that I forgot to weigh the frame first!

Thanks...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

islander said:


> Me thinks the ECR has vikb's number to a T.


Actually I'm not particularly interested. I can mount dual racks and 6 water bottles to my Krampus plus I get the 44mm HT which is friendly with any fork that comes out not to mention I'm really happy with the Krampus' handling so I may not enjoy the way the ECR rides as much.

I'm touring on my Krampus mostly with soft bags and I don't like or need fork mounted cargo/bottles so there isn't much benefit to the ECR.

I've got no plans to change.


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

Just finished my bike with dt xrr470 carbon fork. Will post asap.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Damn. Me gusta the Instigator.


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

x3speed said:


> Just finished my bike with dt xrr470 carbon fork. Will post asap.


Please do that a good quality fork, be great to hear your opiion


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## jgorrilla (Apr 2, 2008)

CCSS said:


> Quick question - size large frame weight?


My large Krampus with bolts and collar was 5.75 pounds or 2600 grams.


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

*Pics as promised*


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

:thumbsup: I like the look of that how many bucks state side?


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## bb1mina (Feb 10, 2008)

Nice fork!


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

Well i work at a bike shop so i dont pay retail. I think the fork is like 550 or so retail. Bike is 1950 usd.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

*Lefty Krampus*


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Oops, sorry, forgot the text....

Here is where my Krampus has morphed to now. Mine is a size small with XX1 drivetrain.
I used a Project 321 steer tube adapter, and Cane Creek headset. The Lefty is the 90mm travel version. Rims are Schlick Northpaw, which I will try to set up tubeluss next. Total weight including pedals is 26.1 pounds.
This thing is a blast, and super fast.


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

What exact p321 adaptors did you use? Did you have to limit the travel? Im very interested in a lefty set up. Cost?


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

I used the "Tapered fixed crown Lefty adapter" from Project 321. I was previously using a tapered carbon fork, so this made adapter made sense as it worked with my current headset.
The regular 1-1/8" adapter will work if you are currently set up with a 44mmx 1-1/8 headset.

I did not need to limit the travel. You must use the 90mm travel 29er Lefty. I let all of the air out of mine and compressed it to the bottom, and there is 3mm of clearance from the tire.

Project 321 adapter-$95
Lefty Carbon XLR-$1295 (there are cheaper options)


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

Thank you so much. Depending on availablility on rocksshox new fork, i may go the lefty route


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

I'm interested in front suspension for my Krampus. Lefty seems perhaps the best route, but I hate having to change my hub, and that I couldn't switch back and forth with the rigid fork. Building up a spare wheel would be too much $. Probably go with a Fox.


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

Fox float 29 sounds good, looking into that also


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

If you're waiting on the new Pike don't because it won't fit.


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

Float 29 fits already, rock shox has a fat bike fork in the works for this fall.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Not the Float 29 that I tried. Unless you are ok with the tire rubbing most of the time, it is not great. It was ok (but very, very close) just riding around the parking lot, but as soon as I hit the trail, and encountered wheel flex, the tire rubbed hard. I adjusted the spoke tension a little, to try to prevent this, but it did not go away. Not an option in my opinion. 

Does anyone else have a different experience that wish to share?


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

Really? Well that sucks. I guess its lefty or wait for the new rs.


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2013)

x3speed said:


> Really? Well that sucks. I guess its lefty or wait for the new rs.


read this thread.

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/krampus-front-suspension-830280-2.html


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Yes, I did read that previously,and was very excited, but also a little apprehensive due to the closeness shown in the photos. That is why I conducted my own test with a borrowed Fox 29 Float with 15mm axle, as I described here. I was using the 50mm Rabbit Hole rims when I tried the Fox. It was just too close.


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Krampus: summer season old. Miles. Oh, its got some. A couple 30+ mile rides where by the end, I was cooked. You can certainly 'feel' the weight of the wheels, but they make up for that with so much damned traction, its not even funny. Do I like the bike? Hell yes I do. Its a hoot to ride, especially on more gravity oriented, rougher trails where the geometry shines. Or on flatish rolling trail where you can use the momentum of the wheels to good effect. It LOVES rocky, techy trails where I get to pick my way through, or simply blast over it. Its decidedly less cumbersom than you'd think it is.

I've got it set up as a SS [34-19] for now, but putting a 10s cassette on there isn't out of the question. I'll be riding this at SSUSA for sure. Should be a good bike for the trails there.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

Alex.C said:


> I was working out the parts to get to give a Krampus complete another ring and keep it as 'similar' as possible to existing parts and came up with this list:
> 
> * Front derailleur adapter (Krampus supplied one or a Problem Solver)
> * Surly OD Crankset (73mm)
> ...


Finally, I made a thread about my Zee double conversion.
.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

jgorrilla said:


> My large Krampus with bolts and collar was 5.75 pounds or 2600 grams.


Thanks very much!


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Man, I love this damn bike. Love how much traction it has on the climbs! Only wish... front suspension. Maybe one day we will get lucky.


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

http://www.mappedometer.com/?maproute=203252

Something around 40 miles today. It rained this morning so I skipped the trails and did mostly pavement. 5 hours including eating a picnic lunch at the park and taking a couple breaks to feed ducks and chat with people under a bridge hiding from the rain. Got back to my car to a flat tire which I got to change in said rain. Pretty good adventure all around, probably going to go on another one tomorrow.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

looking forward to trying Dirt Wizards on it....


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## docter_zab (Jun 3, 2013)

my homie keeps double flatting his krampus...


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Man, I love this damn bike. Love how much traction it has on the climbs! Only wish... front suspension. Maybe one day we will get lucky.


Cheez... Since I have moved to the White Bros. carbon fork I have noticed a few things. 1) The obvious, the front end is much lighter. I can easily pull the front off the ground and cruise right over rock gardens and heavily rooted sections. In fact, I can now take the tougher lines (i.e. big roots, rocks) and blaze across them. It's so easy to pull the front end up. 2) Carbon does take away a significant amount of vibration and has just enough give to leave you in control without knocking your arms off. 
True, it will not have nearly as much 'give' as a nice suspension fork. But it has made me a realize I don't need a front shock to make this bike perfect. 
Just something to consider as you wait for a suspension fork.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

That's exactly what I needed to here. The first few rides I had were great, but this last one was just bone-jarring. Obviously the trail was a bit rockier than what I was previously riding, but still, I didn't expect it to be like that. 

Still love this bike though!


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

So i wieghed my xl with my thudbuster and carbon fork, 32.90 lbs. Witched in some giant 29x 1.9~2.3 tubes, now at 32.02 lbs


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## jgorrilla (Apr 2, 2008)

Raced around State College, Pennsylvania this last weekend on my SS Krampus. The built weight is 24 pounds 11 ounces for a large frame. Even after 100 miles and lots of rocky descents, I could still feel my hands which is a testament to the tires. The wheels were set up tubeless and I ran 18 psi rear and 15 psi front. My weight is around 210. That area is incredibly harsh on tires and tubes and I can't imagine getting through without flats had I been using tubes.

I'm running the Whisky No 9 fork, which I found absolutely spectacular for lightening the front end, adding more vibration dampening and providing great steering precision. There was some mud and clearance was never an issue, the fork has room to spare.

The Krampus seems very sensitive to cockpit length. When I first built it, I used take off parts from another bike and had a 120mm stem and non-setback post with a 600mm bar. I liked the way the bike rode, but couldn't get it to carve around corners and ended up breaking the back loose and/or going outside on curves. I ended up redoing the cockpit with a 90mm stem, setback post and 700mm bar and it made a big difference. Riding the same course back to back, I was able to sweep around the corners much more easily and noticed much less skidding from the rear tire.

For you SS riders, my first build I was using 32x20 having never used anything larger than 32x18 on a 29er. That ratio seemed about right with a tire that is 1.5 inches taller than a 29er. I wasn't happy not having any room to go up since 20t was the largest cog I had, so I put an XX1 crankset with a 28t on it to get the smaller, stiffer BCD and have been using an 18t for most riding. I used a 19t for State College and other than looking like a trials set up, I was able to climb and still keep up with geared riders on most flats.

I’m sold on the 29+ platform for how I like to ride, I’d like a lighter frame for no other reason than lighter is better and I like steeper headtube angles, but probably not a lot, I just need to learn how to steer with a shorter stem.


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

What fork exactly is that? price?

cheers
Steve


Bacons said:


> Cheez... Since I have moved to the White Bros. carbon fork I have noticed a few things. 1) The obvious, the front end is much lighter. I can easily pull the front off the ground and cruise right over rock gardens and heavily rooted sections. In fact, I can now take the tougher lines (i.e. big roots, rocks) and blaze across them. It's so easy to pull the front end up. 2) Carbon does take away a significant amount of vibration and has just enough give to leave you in control without knocking your arms off.
> True, it will not have nearly as much 'give' as a nice suspension fork. But it has made me a realize I don't need a front shock to make this bike perfect.
> Just something to consider as you wait for a suspension fork.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

SteveJfromtheSwitch said:


> What fork exactly is that? price?
> 
> cheers
> Steve


I was going to ask the same. I would love the specs. Based off the picture, it looks like a White Brothers Rock Solid Rigid... but not sure of exact specs. Based off a quick search, they make several options.

Does the CF really help that much for dampening? I was riding this weekend and nearly got thrown off.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Does the CF really help that much for dampening? I was riding this weekend and nearly got thrown off.


FS Knardliness:

; (


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Interesting. Assume that the Revelation would work for me since I very, very rarely see mud. Nice find!


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## quickKarl (Aug 9, 2004)

this is what you want, i have one.

White Brothers 29er Rock Solid Rigid Carbon Fork 490mm from ModernBike.com


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

dRjOn said:


> looking forward to trying Dirt Wizards on it....


Has it been confirmed Dirt Wizards are coming out in 29+ too? I haven't seen anything concrete. Details? 2.75", 3" or other width?


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

quickKarl said:


> this is what you want, i have one.
> 
> White Brothers 29er Rock Solid Rigid Carbon Fork 490mm from ModernBike.com


I've been running one of these on my 'regular' bike for 3+ years on the TDR and the Grenzstein Trophy and an Alpencross... if it'll make a rigid bike feel as good as mine does, I can only imagine what it'd do for a Krampus. It's the best fork I've ever owned.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Where can one go to learn more about forks and sizing and such? I'm a complete noob and would love to learn more.


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## Vincentg (Sep 24, 2008)

ale50ale: are you getting any tire rub on the lefty? 2013 fork right? Looks great!


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## ginaq5 (Jul 25, 2013)

awesome............


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Gouda Cheez said:


> I was going to ask the same. I would love the specs. Based off the picture, it looks like a White Brothers Rock Solid Rigid... but not sure of exact specs. Based off a quick search, they make several options.
> 
> Does the CF really help that much for dampening? I was riding this weekend and nearly got thrown off.


Sorry for the slow response. Yes, as others' mentioned above, White Brothers 29er Rock Solid Rigid Carbon Fork 490mm.
It will NOT give you dampening like a genuine suspension fork. However, it does take away some of the harshness (vibration, rigidity) that you get from the steel stocker. Yes, the carbon fork is very rigid, but it allows some 'give' or flex which gives me better feel and control. Combine that with a cushy Knard (I run 12psi), your brain and body will forget you don't have a shock up front. Also, I previously mentioned the significantly lighter weight allows you to pull the front end up more easily, which allows me to attack rooty and rocky sections with more speed and confidence. 
If you don't need huge travel that a shock affords, this may be a good solution for you. Opinions may vary greatly... but I love it.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

I must say I love how the Krampus tows a single wheel trailer such as the my one from Tout. The stability and traction of the big wheels gets the whole huge assembly pretty much anywhere, though I still need to change the front cranks so its a little less painful on sustained steep climbs...









(@Frisby Ridge on the weekend)


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Vincentg said:


> ale50ale: are you getting any tire rub on the lefty? 2013 fork right? Looks great!


No tire rub at all. I had originally thought that I may need to put some offset in the wheel, but it was not necessary. I will post a picture showing the clearance, but it is about 6-8mm.

It is the 2013 Lefty XLR Carbon.


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

Bacons said:


> Sorry for the slow response. Yes, as others' mentioned above, White Brothers 29er Rock Solid Rigid Carbon Fork 490mm.
> It will NOT give you dampening like a genuine suspension fork. However, it does take away some of the harshness (vibration, rigidity) that you get from the steel stocker. Yes, the carbon fork is very rigid, but it allows some 'give' or flex which gives me better feel and control. Combine that with a cushy Knard (I run 12psi), your brain and body will forget you don't have a shock up front. Also, I previously mentioned the significantly lighter weight allows you to pull the front end up more easily, which allows me to attack rooty and rocky sections with more speed and confidence.
> If you don't need huge travel that a shock affords, this may be a good solution for you. Opinions may vary greatly... but I love it.


I really like the look and sound of your fork. However could please would advise on how much clearance there you have between tyre and leg, I unfortunately have to deal with a fair bit of mud so good clearance is an important factor. Thanks


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Steve5S said:


> I really like the look and sound of your fork. However could please would advise on how much clearance there you have between tyre and leg, I unfortunately have to deal with a fair bit of mud so good clearance is an important factor. Thanks












Do you already have a Krampus? If not be aware that this frame is pretty tight at the rear with Knards. There is just a minimal amount of clearance side to side.

If I had a lot of sticky mud to deal with I'd be running a "normal" 29er tires in the rear to get some clearance.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

The knard has to be the worst tire for mud in all of mtbing.


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

Hi Vicb, yes now happily have a Krampus. I was questioning Bacons regarding the clearance on his White Brothers Rock Solid Carbon Fork. However I fully agree with your advice of a 29er tyre should the trails get grim.

SyT yes you're bang on, the knard is horrid in mud but what a beauty in the dry. Here in the UK we are having some exceptionally dry/warm/hot weather and the knards are excellent but a Dirt wizard will be required once this comes to an end.


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## Vistacruise (Jul 16, 2013)

Is there a page in here that takes about running the Rabbit holes and Knards tubeless. Or somewhere else that can be suggested?


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

Vistacruise said:


> Is there a page in here that takes about running the Rabbit holes and Knards tubeless. Or somewhere else that can be suggested?


Theres quite a lot, use is the search feature at top of page but here is as good place as any to start http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/surly-krampus-802452-60.html#post10507543


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## TitanofChaos (Jun 13, 2011)

renegade44 said:


> Has it been confirmed Dirt Wizards are coming out in 29+ too? I haven't seen anything concrete. Details? 2.75", 3" or other width?


Pictured Dirt Wizard 29x2.75

coastrider


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ Excellent news! Thank you for posting that link; I have uses for both the 26" and 29" DWs if/when I can get some...


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

↑ release date?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

TitanofChaos said:


> Pictured Dirt Wizard 29x2.75
> 
> coastrider


Looks great. A 3.0" DW wouldn't fit the rear of a Krampus so I expected they'd narrow the casing to make up for the side knobs.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I hope these 'Dirt Wizards' live up to their name.


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## LionX (Aug 3, 2013)

Hi, I am newbie here. I am looking at a Krampus for communting. Is it feasible? Compare to a normal hardtail 29er, how big a difference is the ride? Cheers.

will like to add I already own a road bike and a foldable bike. So I am now looking for a do it all MTB . The krampus looked really fun.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

LionX said:


> So I am now looking for a do it all MTB . The krampus looked really fun.


The Krampus is a great rigid mountain bike. I've used mine trail riding and mostly for lightweight dirt touring. I give it two thumbs up for both those uses...:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Can you commute on it? Sure why not? It has two wheels and will move down the road when you pedal. 

Would I use it to commute on the road? No. Not unless I didn't have any other more suitable bikes.

Since you have a road bike and folder I would commute on one of those and save the Krampus for your dirt rides.

The other thing I will say is the Krampus is rigid. If your local trails and you like riding rigid you will be happy. But, 3" tires are not a replacement for suspension on trails that are rough. If you made me choose between my Krampus and my FS MTB I'd pick my FS MTB every time for my local costal BC trails. I can ride my FS bike hard through chunky terrain all day every day for 2 weeks with only muscle soreness. After 2 days on a rigid bike I start to feel beat up like the old man I am! 

And I started off riding MTBs when they were all rigid so I have the line finding skills to make the best of it.


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## LionX (Aug 3, 2013)

Thank you Vik for ur detailed response. 

It is really not easy to choose a 29er. There are so many options . Ha

I will not be doing any trail riding that are too rough , not a skilful mtb rider. But I will like to use the MTB to go anywhere where I want to. Like a mix of pavements riding, rough roads, light trails etc. 

Thanks a lot and cheers


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

LionX said:


> Thank you Vik for ur detailed response.
> 
> It is really not easy to choose a 29er. There are so many options . Ha
> 
> ...


Maybe look at the Surly Ogre. If you aren't in need of 3" rubber on wide rims the Ogre offers wider gearing and lots of braze-ons. It will do everything you are after.

Ogre | Bikes | Surly Bikes


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## LionX (Aug 3, 2013)

vikb said:


> Maybe look at the Surly Ogre. If you aren't in need of 3" rubber on wide rims the Ogre offers wider gearing and lots of braze-ons. It will do everything you are after.
> 
> Ogre | Bikes | Surly Bikes


Wow.. Just looking at surly bikes alone, it is just really tough the make a decision.

Ogre, karate monkey, krampus... All looked like they could do a decent job and are so versatile. I really do not know the main difference and how to pick one from another in terms of performance .

For the krampus 3 inch wide tyres - may I ask what are the cons in terms of ride performance compared to a standard 29 tyres?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

LionX said:


> Wow.. Just looking at surly bikes alone, it is just really tough the make a decision.
> 
> Ogre, karate monkey, krampus... All looked like they could do a decent job and are so versatile. I really do not know the main difference and how to pick one from another in terms of performance .
> 
> For the krampus 3 inch wide tyres - may I ask what are the cons in terms of ride performance compared to a standard 29 tyres?


29 x 3" Knards are $90-$150 each and not uber durable. I wouldn't want to waste them on the road.

Surly Knard Tire > Components > Tires and Tubes > Tires | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop

You are also running wide heavy 50mm rims on the Krampus and a single chainring up front.

Unless you really want those 3" tires for a specific reason I would get the Ogre. The Karate Monkey would be good, but the complete bike from Surly is a single speed.


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## LionX (Aug 3, 2013)

Thank u so much for ur reply. Learn alot


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Vik has hit it all on the head. I ride my Krampus on the road from time to time. Most of those road rides are on the way to the trail. 

I, too, was torn between a hardtail and a rigid. I chose the Krampus because it is a funky, beefy bike that performs well enough on the trail. I was intrigued by having something very different than a traditional hardtail and it definitely HAS NOT disappointed me at all. I've quickly learned that 3" tires, even at 12-14psi are no replacement for suspension. I've quickly learned to take things a bit slower on the downhill (a good thing in many ways) and to pay more attention to my surroundings on the trail. What the Krampus may lack in suspension, it makes up for in fun - it climbs well, has great traction, and is a solid bike overall.


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## OMNICELLL (Jan 31, 2009)

This might be my next bike!

Will three inch tires make a difference?


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Define 'make a difference'...


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## Big Gags (Jan 8, 2013)

3" tyres make a massive difference!!! I used to think that the 2" tyres on my 29er (OnOne Inbred with rigid fork) had some grip but after riding the Krampus for a few weeks and then going back to the Inbred I just kept washing out the front tyre on corners for the first half an hour or so due to the relative lack of grip between the two!!

See photo below for comparison between 3" Knard and 2" The Captain tyres........draw your own conclusions!!


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Traction wise, the Krampus is nuts.


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

Possibly a dumbass question but what is the fork offset on the Krampus?


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

Steve5S said:


> Possibly a dumbass question but what is the fork offset on the Krampus?


There is no offset.


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## Big Gags (Jan 8, 2013)

No fork offset. One of the things that I liked about the Krampus was the fact that it ran standard spacing (100 mm front, 135 mm rear) and so if I want to I can swap the wheels over from my other 29er onto the Krampus (I have also found that the front wheel of the Krampus just fits inside the Salsa Moto El Grande fork that I am running on my SS 29er (I haven't tried riding with it yet though).


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

Ok, so everybody is telling you that there is no side-to-side offset (like a Pugsley) on the Krampus fork.

However, the rake, or forward offset of the fork is 1.9" per Surly - in case that's what you were askin'


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

Ah yes fork offset :thumbsup:, looking to get some carbon forks;
*White Brothers Rock Solid, 44mm offset
*Syncros FL Carbon, 38mm offset

Now getting the impression that Offset & Fork Rake are the same. If that is the case then the Krampus has a Fork Rake of 1.9 - 1.9 what?

Trying to get my head around how these offset figures will affect the ride :madman:


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## Big Gags (Jan 8, 2013)

Steve5S said:


> Ah yes fork offset :thumbsup:, looking to get some carbon forks;
> *White Brothers Rock Solid, 44mm offset
> *Syncros FL Carbon, 38mm offset
> 
> ...


I think we are getting our offsets mixed up!!! The offset for a Rock Solid fork refers to how far the top of the fork legs is set forwards from the steerer tube (i.e. the offset of the crown of the fork for a fork with straight legs). The offset that I was referring to (as per the Pugsley fork) allows you to run a 135 mm spaced rear wheel on the front - the fork is offset to one side so that the wheel runs in the centre of the bike.

I assume that the 1.9 refers to 1.9 inches (about 47.5 mm or so)??


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

I threw my Ice Spiker Pros (2.25") on he Rabbit Hole to see how they fit:



















It was a bit of a struggle for the last bit of the bead, if they were tubeless I would not be worried in the least about burping. I think i'll be using that setup on the Krampus for the icier bits of winter, for the rest of winter i'll stick with the Moonlander.


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## Vistacruise (Jul 16, 2013)

First ride review. This bike is a beast. Incredibly fun and confidence inspiring. For a point of reference I'm 6' 3" 195lbs on a Large Frame. I picked up my bike this morning from my Lbs, had to order in my size. This is my first experience owning a good mountain bike. As 29+ won't be for everyone I really like the simplicity of the step up and the feel of the Surly frame and big tires. Plenty of gear range for my area and once you get those tires moving it is quite fast. Over the past 3 weeks studying what kind of bike I wanted online the Krampus wasn't even on my radar until I test road it per my Lbs suggestion. I knew destroying my budget would be worth the instant fun it provides. I look forward to riding more and that's the whole point anyway.


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

Shout out to Surly for making a fun bike.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

jgorrilla said:


> Raced around State College, Pennsylvania this last weekend on my SS Krampus...
> 
> I'm sold on the 29+ platform for how I like to ride, I'd like a lighter frame for no other reason than lighter is better and I like steeper headtube angles, but probably not a lot, I just need to learn how to steer with a shorter stem.


jgorrilla - I graduated from PSU, so I'm familiar with the terrain. That said, I'm riding my SS Krampus in Austin, TX. 32x20. 25.0lbs with pedals/cage/bell, etc. Using a ti 740mm bar and a relatively heavy ti post, but still impressed that you're at 24lb 11oz. What's your secret?

Also, if you're looking for a lighter frame, check out the Carver Gnarvester... Titanium, 29+. Under 4lbs.

No affiliation, except that Forrest Carver is a cool dude.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Ran my Krampus with my 'regular' 29er wheels this weekend(IKONS on Flows). I still noticed excellent front traction while cornering. What I mean by that is I had an incident where the front wheel was sliding and it never completely let go. I have only noticed this on Krampus, other bikes I have always feel like if I lost front traction i was immediately on the ground. In the past I truly believe I would have fallen. The second thing I noticed was I still had much improved climbing traction. I originally thought that the 'magic' about Krampus was 80% tires and 20% geometry. I am now thinking its more like 60% tires 40% geometry.


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

clydeone said:


> Ran my Krampus with my 'regular' 29er wheels this weekend(IKONS on Flows). I still noticed excellent front traction while cornering. What I mean by that is I had an incident where the front wheel was sliding and it never completely let go. I have only noticed this on Krampus, other bikes I have always feel like if I lost front traction i was immediately on the ground. In the past I truly believe I would have fallen. The second thing I noticed was I still had much improved climbing traction. I originally thought that the 'magic' about Krampus was 80% tires and 20% geometry. I am now thinking its more like 60% tires 40% geometry.


I ran mine for about a month and several hundred miles with regular wheels: an Ikon on an Arch in the back and a Ardent on a Flow in front with a 100mm Reba. I thought it was a great setup; it rode really well.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

I am such a ridiculous fan of this bike.
.


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## octavius (Sep 26, 2008)

vikb said:


> looks great. A 3.0" dw wouldn't fit the rear of a krampus so i expected they'd narrow the casing to make up for the side knobs.


this tyre is what ive been waiting for.

and the new velocity 45mm rim seems perfect to me.

my new front wheel has just been built in my head...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Loaded up the Krampus with a ridiculous amount of gear and went for a tour with my friend Doug and his kids in the Chilcotin Mtns of BC.










The Krampus did great overall, but I did start to wish for a suspension fork during longer sections of high speed chunk.










Trip report is here: vikapproved | Chilcotin ? 3 Lakes Tour

Photos are here: Chilcotins 2013 - a set on Flickr


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

After some experimentation with gearing I've settled on 34T x 16T with my Rohloff. Any lower than that and I might as well start walking. This still gives me more high range than I am ever going to need.










I've put a bunch of dirt touring days on my water bottle setup...I didn't like the fork mounted bottles on my previous 29er. They got beat up when I laid my bike down, leaned it up against stuff and when doing some hike-a-bike.

The new downtube + stem mounted bottles work much better and the hose clamp mounts have not budged despite much highspeed pounding.

I have also been carrying a 1L bottle in my frame bag giving me 0.75 + 1L + 1.5L = 3.25L of water on the bike.

Adding another 2L to my back pack and 0.75L x 2 in bottles to my fork legs is easy should I need a lot of water. That would give me 6L total...at the moment I can't envisage needing more water on a ride.


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## lvking11 (Jun 4, 2013)

How would this bike be in the snow? Would a pugsley be that much better?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

lvking11 said:


> How would this bike be in the snow? Would a pugsley be that much better?


A Pugsley would be a much better snow bike than a Krampus. You can fit 4.8" Big Fat Larrys on 82mm rims into a Pugsley.

A Krampus running 3" Knards on 50mm rims doesn't even come close to the same floatation.

Having said that a Krampus would do fine on packed snow, but the same could be said of other "skinny" mountain bikes.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

octavius said:


> and the new velocity 45mm rim seems perfect to me.


Good hint!

Velocity USA: Introducing the "mid fat" 45mm Dually rim

Looks very good for 3.0 Knards 

Does anyone know if the black rim is anodized or powdercoated?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

DerBergschreck said:


> Good hint!
> 
> Velocity USA: Introducing the "mid fat" 45mm Dually rim
> 
> ...


in my experience buying Velocity rims if it doesn't specifically state anodized it's powdercoated.

You can confirm with them at this link.:

Velocity Wheels


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

vikb said:


> in my experience buying Velocity rims if it doesn't specifically state anodized it's powdercoated.


I asked Velocity and they answered that black is anodized.
White and reflective are the only rims which are powdercoated.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

DerBergschreck said:


> I asked Velocity and they answered that black is anodized.
> White and reflective are the only rims which are powdercoated.


+1 - always best to ask the source.

The anodized Velocity rims I have are much nicer than the other Velocity rims I have. I'll be sticking to anodized from them in the future.


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## seely (Jan 20, 2004)

vikb said:


> +1 - always best to ask the source.
> 
> The anodized Velocity rims I have are much nicer than the other Velocity rims I have. I'll be sticking to anodized from them in the future.


And its slightly lighter! Ano FTW.


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## takisawa2 (Sep 21, 2012)

I finally got to test ride a Krampus yesterday. My usual ride is a SS Niner SIR.9, with the steel Niner forks & 2.35 Racing Ralphs. First thing I noticed was how smooth it was. Just keeps rolling over stuff that has my Niner jumping & bouncing around a bit. The amount of grip was just staggering. It was a good 7 - 8lbs heavier than my Niner, but it felt surprisingly lively. I was expecting it to be a bit lethargic but was pleasanlty suprised.

I'd love to have a full build but I'm really keen to look at rebuilding my wheels with some RH rims & running a Knard up front. Charliethebikemonger tried a Krampus front wheel in his shop demo SIR.9 & reported that it did in fact fit nicely. Out back I think the 2.35 Ralph should work ok on the RH rim.

Cheers.
Demo Krampus (Size Lg)

IMAG1522 by pten2106, on Flickr
SIR.9

IMAG0130 by pten2106, on Flickr


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Try the velocity 45 mm rim just out. Supposedly lighter than a RH and plenty of width for a knard. 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

thickfog said:


> Try the velocity blunt 45 mm rim just out.


Did they name it "Blunt 45" now? I thought is name is "Dually".


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

takisawa2 said:


> IMAG1522 by pten2106, on Flickr
> SIR.9


I wonder why nearly all Krampus demo bikes and even the ones for the official product photos have mounted monkey nuts although Surly says that with 1x9/10 drivetrain you won't need them. Important question: are there problems with tire clearance in the frontmost position of the rear wheel with Rabbitholes & Knards?

Of course most of us (and mee too!) wants the shortest possible effective chainstay lenght - which we only get if the monkey nuts are not used.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

DerBergschreck said:


> Did they name it "Blunt 45" now? I thought is name is "Dually".


+1 - Velocity USA: Introducing the "mid fat" 45mm Dually rim


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

My reaction when people refer to every velocity rim as a 'Blunt __' :madman:


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

DerBergschreck said:


> I wonder why nearly all Krampus demo bikes and even the ones for the official product photos have mounted monkey nuts although Surly says that with 1x9/10 drivetrain you won't need them. Important question: are there problems with tire clearance in the frontmost position of the rear wheel with Rabbitholes & Knards?
> 
> Of course most of us (and mee too!) wants the shortest possible effective chainstay lenght - which we only get if the monkey nuts are not used.


I experience some rub of the tire on the chainstay when standing and climbing mine is 1x10 and rabbit hole with knards setup tubeless but, I got some when I was tubed as well. I run mine with the wheel fully forward no monkey nuts and am a clyde


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> My reaction when people refer to every velocity rim as a 'Blunt __' :madman:


Really, Velocity are to blame for this - they now have three rims they call Blunts; there's a Blunt SL, a Blunt , and a Blunt 35, IIRC.

If they're going to call what was the P35 the Blunt 35, then it's not unreasonable people might think the new rim would be the Blunt 45 - "Blunt" here meaning MTB rim. If all the extrusions are similar shapes this is actually a pretty reasonable thing for Velocity to do, in which case they should add the width to the other rims' names too...


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

DerBergschreck said:


> I wonder why nearly all Krampus demo bikes and even the ones for the official product photos have mounted monkey nuts although Surly says that with 1x9/10 drivetrain you won't need them. Important question: are there problems with tire clearance in the frontmost position of the rear wheel with Rabbitholes & Knards?
> 
> Of course most of us (and mee too!) wants the shortest possible effective chainstay lenght - which we only get if the monkey nuts are not used.


I am set up 1x11 with no monkey nuts. No rubbing at all with Knards on RAbbit Hole rims.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

ale50ale said:


> I am set up 1x11 with no monkey nuts. No rubbing at all with Knards on RAbbit Hole rims.


Nice to hear 
How much clearance does the knard have to the front and sides?


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

clydeone said:


> I experience some rub of the tire on the chainstay when standing and climbing mine is 1x10 and rabbit hole with knards setup tubeless but, I got some when I was tubed as well. I run mine with the wheel fully forward no monkey nuts and am a clyde


Same here, other than the annoyance of the sound, it's a non-issue. I'm 215 lbs.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I get a little rub when cranking up a hill. Since my bike is still new, the new tire nubs still rub on the chain and frame a little bit. Doesn't effect performance at all so whatever!


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

To the uphill rubbers?

Have you bothered to notice if it could be the chain keeper?

3 I've sold rubbed on that when fully forward in the dropouts, climbing with heavier riders. 

It won't move by adjusting, but a quick peek at where it would contact if pushed hard enough, followed by a Dremel with a grinder wheel taking off a mm or two of plastic in that region, problem solved......


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

I had issues with rubbing on the chain keeper initially while in the lowest gear, ended up removing one of the spacers in the mount for it and the rubbing stopped.


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## SSBiker (Nov 12, 2012)

Anyone know by any chance the maximum spoke tension for the rabbit hole rim?


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

DerBergschreck said:


> Did they name it "Blunt 45" now? I thought is name is "Dually".


I guessed. I was wrong! ;-)


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> To the uphill rubbers?
> 
> Have you bothered to notice if it could be the chain keeper?
> 
> ...


Could be kinda doubt it though since I am running a N-gear jump stop + bash ring


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

SSBiker said:


> Anyone know by any chance the maximum spoke tension for the rabbit hole rim?


Maybe this is the question that should be asked by all those having rubbing issues!!!!!
Yes/no?


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

SSBiker said:


> Anyone know by any chance the maximum spoke tension for the rabbit hole rim?


mine is super high. I use dt hex head nipples, which allow you to use a ratchet and socket on the back side after removing the tire. if I try to spin a nipple with a conventional spoke wrench, the top of the nipple breaks right off. the rim is doing just fine even though I've had to replace the hub once.

my rim is also cross laced (spokes from right flange go to holes in left side of rim and vice versa) and there is not tendency for the rim to wobble. My rim does have lots of damage from bottoming it out. I guess the desire for a plush ride leads me to run lower pressure and damage ensues. Also tiny air leaks can easily go unnoticed until you hit a big bump and feel your rim bottom out/get a pinch flat.

Also, I had no rubbing problems with my wheel slammed forward. I weigh 195 and ride fast both up and down hills.

another tidbit, I've had one flat from a stick poking though the window in the rim. Pretty annoying.


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

I finally got around to setting my tires up tubeless this week. The tire and bead sets up dead easy, the real challenge is sealing the holes in the rim. My first attempt used a layer of gorilla tape over the stock rim strips. Bad idea. They sealed up great but eventually the rim strips bulged and started letting air out. 

Next try was three layers of gorilla tape, one narrower strip facing the inside of the rim and then two layers on the outside of the rim. Worked like a charm. I might have been able to get away with two layers of tape but I didn't want to risk having to re-do them another time. It's not like this bike is ever going to be light.


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## peippo (Feb 3, 2008)

Just got my Krampus built. The rims were supposed to be the same golden hue as the other parts, but unfortunately it doesn't really match. Should have went with anodizing instead of powder coating.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

peippo said:


> Just got my Krampus built. The rims were supposed to be the same golden hue as the other parts, but unfortunately it doesn't really match. Should have went with anodizing instead of powder coating.


Looks great. Just pretend that was how you wanted them to turn out.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

They'll be so dirty in a week and you'll never even notice


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## WyldStallyn (Jun 5, 2013)

I have seen a few people here with complaints about a 1x10 drivetrain. I had my reservations at the beginning, but with the right gear ratio a 1x10 can serve you well. I'm running a 34 tooth chainring with an 12-36 cassette. Just rub some stank on it when climbing a long hill. Mash those pedals, and you'll get up and over the hump. I haven't had a problem keeping up with my friends who are using double and triple ring cranksets, even on the high speed pursuits.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I think the 1x10 is awesome. Wouldn't have it any other way.


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## quickKarl (Aug 9, 2004)

i wouldnt mind a 1 x 11, maybe next year


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

WyldStallyn said:


> I have seen a few people here with complaints about a 1x10 drivetrain. I had my reservations at the beginning, but with the right gear ratio a 1x10 can serve you well.


IMHO, the key word here is "can" (or "may"); 1x10 is not going to suit everybody, or all places.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

satanas said:


> IMHO, the key word here is "can" (or "may"); 1x10 is not going to suit everybody, or all places.


IF having the low end gear range of a typical geared mtb is important to you, the 1x10 will be insufficient.

Seems like it would have taken zero extra effort by Surly to spec a crank thats more amenable to a 2x conversion. Or maybe there's some good reason to make the change difficult or expensive...?

Aside from that, I'm quite happy with the entire factory spec. And the bike as a whole is amazing.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

drummerdavid said:


> IF having the low end gear range of a typical geared mtb is important to you, the 1x10 will be insufficient.


Just something to think about. I bought my main MTB 5yrs ago as a 3 x 9 and at the time I would have told you that gear range was essential for my MTB.

After a while I got rid of the big ring and ran it as a 2 x 9. At that time I would have told you both rings were essential.

I then moved to a 1 x 9 and now a 1 x 10 setup and ride steeper trails than when I first bought it.

Not everyone will be happy with a 1 x 10, but for a lot of people they'll have to try it and get used to it to know if it's going to work for them.

I actually find the 1 x 10 allows me to climb techy terrain much better because I can't apply so much torque to the rear wheel which frequently broke the tire loose in the granny. Plus each pedal stroke gets me further over the obstacle and I only have 3 or 4 hard powerstrokes in me before I need a break. If I can clear sections with a few cranks and get a moments rest before the next obstacle I can get much further up techy climbs.

My GF is a fairly weak rider and I suggested she try and not use her granny for a couple rides. She found it tough, but also noticed she was cleaning sections she usually got stuck on.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

vikb said:


> Just something to think about. I bought my main MTB 5yrs ago as a 3 x 9 and at the time I would have told you that gear range was essential for my MTB.
> 
> After a while I got rid of the big ring and ran it as a 2 x 9. At that time I would have told you both rings were essential.
> 
> ...


Of course there are conditions where a bigger gear will work better than a small one.

But I'm talking about other conditions where someone would find the opposite to be true. For ME thats a long steep climb where I'd like to ride seated. My problem with the Krampus spec is it makes that gearing conversion unnecessarily difficult or expensive.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

PretendGentleman said:


> mine is super high. I use dt hex head nipples, which allow you to use a ratchet and socket on the back side after removing the tire. if I try to spin a nipple with a conventional spoke wrench, the top of the nipple breaks right off. the rim is doing just fine even though I've had to replace the hub once.
> 
> my rim is also cross laced (spokes from right flange go to holes in left side of rim and vice versa) and there is not tendency for the rim to wobble. My rim does have lots of damage from bottoming it out. I guess the desire for a plush ride leads me to run lower pressure and damage ensues. Also tiny air leaks can easily go unnoticed until you hit a big bump and feel your rim bottom out/get a pinch flat.
> 
> ...


I said those cutouts in the rim were a flat-magnet and people called me crazy.


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## WyldStallyn (Jun 5, 2013)

drummerdavid said:


> Of course there are conditions where a bigger gear will work better than a small one.
> 
> But I'm talking about other conditions where someone would find the opposite to be true. For ME thats a long steep climb where I'd like to ride seated. My problem with the Krampus spec is it makes that gearing conversion unnecessarily difficult or expensive.


I see where you're coming from. Either get tough and develop calves of steel, or buy an offset double crank. Surly should have offered the choice between single and double. Their MWOD does fit and won't break the bank. My LBS said they would charge me the difference if I wanted them to install a Surly Mr. Whirly. It was nice to know I had the option available. The owner said he could surely sell the Zee crank. I decided to tough it out, and I'm enjoying the challenge. That said, not everyone is sick and twisted like me. I guess a couple years riding a single speed helped build a solid base. When it comes down to it, we all just want to enjoy the ride. The Krampus can most definitely provide this, be it stock or modified to our liking.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

WyldStallyn said:


> .... Either get tough and develop calves of steel, or buy an offset double crank.....


Well, I did come up with a 3rd alternative.

See this thread http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/zee-crank-double-conversion-krampus-867411.html#post10561021


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

vikb said:


> Just something to think about. I bought my main MTB 5yrs ago as a 3 x 9 and at the time I would have told you that gear range was essential for my MTB.
> 
> After a while I got rid of the big ring and ran it as a 2 x 9. At that time I would have told you both rings were essential.
> 
> ...


I had the same mindset before I tried out the Krampus. I was scared to spend $2k-ish on a bike that might not suit me as well as I want it to. However, I absolutely love the 1x10. I'm finding that I keep shying further and further away from the Krampus' 'granny gear' every time I ride. Not sure if I am getting stronger or becoming a smarter rider or if I am just tired of spinning out on steeper climbs in the lowest gear.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Completely unrelated question - is anyone running a dropper post on their Krampus? Is it even possible? I'm tired of lowering my seat and raising it back up every time I ride downhill.


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## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

I just finished my 4th (and probably final) SS race on my Krampus, and while it is the most fun bike I have owned, it is really hard to overcome the inertia the huge tires have on twisty and punchy trails. I love it as a play bike, but for me, it doesn't work as well as a regular 29er in SS mode. Anyone else have feedback on their SS Krampus?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Completely unrelated question - is anyone running a dropper post on their Krampus? Is it even possible? I'm tired of lowering my seat and raising it back up every time I ride downhill.


Yes it's possible:

GravityDropper Adjustable Height Seatpost

If my Krampus was less a bikepacking bike and more dedicated to trail riding I would install a dropper in a second. I may still get one, but just wait until a sale/clearance discount comes my way.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

clydeone said:


> I experience some rub of the tire on the chainstay when standing and climbing mine is 1x10 and rabbit hole with knards setup tubeless but, I got some when I was tubed as well. I run mine with the wheel fully forward no monkey nuts and am a clyde


After some further looking I figured out the rubbing is on my chain. It is just on the lower (?return?) as it runs from the chainring to the lower derailleur pulley.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

vikb said:


> Yes it's possible:
> 
> GravityDropper Adjustable Height Seatpost
> 
> If my Krampus was less a bikepacking bike and more dedicated to trail riding I would install a dropper in a second. I may still get one, but just wait until a sale/clearance discount comes my way.


Thanks for pointing that one out. Pricey, but may be worth it for what I'm using my bike for.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Thanks for pointing that one out. Pricey, but may be worth it for *what I'm using my bike for*.


I havent lowered my seat during a ride since like 1986. Does it help a lot? For what sort of descent?


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

drummerdavid said:


> I havent lowered my seat during a ride since like 1986. Does it help a lot? For what sort of descent?


Rocky, loose, and steep. 

Makes putting weight on the back tire a hell of a lot easier... at least for me.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Rocky, loose, and steep.
> 
> Makes putting weight on the back tire a hell of a lot easier... at least for me.


Yeah. I know what you mean. Dont do a lot of it though. When I do it makes me nervous to have the my sternum bumping the back of the seat....


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

drummerdavid said:


> I havent lowered my seat during a ride since like 1986. Does it help a lot? For what sort of descent?


Steep and technical. It allows you to lower your center of gravity, which also lowers your chances of going OTB. It allows the bike to pivot beneath you while staying low, and not having to rise up. It can be done manually right before sustained downhills. it does make a tremendous difference - not too many Red Bull Joyride riders tonight with their seats raised up


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

drummerdavid said:


> I havent lowered my seat during a ride since like 1986. Does it help a lot? For what sort of descent?


+1 :thumbsup: Mates use them and I ride the same stuff. Hate seeing the cable on the bars as well :madman:


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

deuxdiesel said:


> I just finished my 4th (and probably final) SS race on my Krampus, and while it is the most fun bike I have owned, it is really hard to overcome the inertia the huge tires have on twisty and punchy trails. I love it as a play bike, but for me, it doesn't work as well as a regular 29er in SS mode. Anyone else have feedback on their SS Krampus?


I've ridden mostly SS/Fixed bikes in the past, but haven't tried ss with the Krampus yet. I'm not sure I want to either. I could see it being fun on non-technical flowy trails without a lot of climbing. But I think gears really allow me to take full advantage of the 3" tires, when riding a variety of terrain. The 3" tires have great traction while climbing, but without gears, I don't know that I could climb that steep. And the Krampus is quite fast once you get it moving, so it's nice to have the faster gears to keep it moving even faster.

For me the 1x10 with clutch rear der has been great. Plenty of range, and no issues shifting. It's shifted better than previous geared mountain bikes I've tried.

While it would have been nice to give people the option of a double crank, I think the Zee crank really helped keep price down which is also important.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

drummerdavid said:


> I havent lowered my seat during a ride since like 1986. Does it help a lot? For what sort of descent?


My main MTB has a dropper and it gets used constantly on a ride. One of the best additions I've made to my MTB ever. I live in coastal BC and travel to places like Moab and Sedona. So steep technical riding is on the menu most of the time.

I've ridden those same places without a dropper post so it's not essential, but having done it both ways I wouldn't go back to a rigid seatpost for that kind of riding.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

vikb said:


> My main MTB has a dropper and it gets used constantly on a ride. One of the best additions I've made to my MTB ever. I live in coastal BC and travel to places like Moab and Sedona. So steep technical riding is on the menu most of the time.
> 
> I've ridden those same places without a dropper post so it's not essential, but having done it both ways I wouldn't go back to a rigid seatpost for that kind of riding.


I live near Moab, and used to ride there a lot. Dropping the seat was something we never did. But, we were into the XC style riding... and while theres plenty of techy parts on the various Moab trails, its nothing like the insane monster drops people are doing these days.
.
So I guess the dropper makes sense. But I dont need one for my riding. Its cool how this mtb detail has sort of returned to the beginning.
.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

A dropper seatpost is sort of like suspension. Not essential. But for some trails and some people it's a highly beneficial innovation.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

WyldStallyn said:


> I see where you're coming from. Either get tough and develop calves of steel, or buy an offset double crank. Surly should have offered the choice between single and double. Their MWOD does fit and won't break the bank.


I bought an mwod and the offset is too much. The 32 or 36 outer ring on the mwod, which I would use 85% of the time makes for a terrible chainline when you're doing moderate climbs. A regular double works fine based on earlier posts in this thread and gives you a good chainline when you're using the bigger ring for most climbs.

The mwod would be good if you expected to be in the granny gear a lot! I don't like how granny gears chew up the chain and cassette due to increased chain tension, so my mwod is off the bike. I just use a deore triple with an extra 2mm spacer behind the bb cup and a single cog off my 10sp cassette moved behind the big cog and the whole thing works like a regular triple. I'm in the middle ring 85% of the time, but the granny is there when I need it and so is the big ring.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

My wishlist of add-ons keeps getting longer. Thanks guys! 

Any of you guys using Chunky grips? Wondering how much better they are than the 'stock' Crank Bros foam grips.


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## ivesetsail (Aug 18, 2013)

Just finished reading through this entire thread after having ordered my Krampus from the LBS. So impatient. Can't wait!


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

You read the WHOLE thread? Props to you. 

You'll love the Krampus.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Gouda Cheez said:


> My wishlist of add-ons keeps getting longer. Thanks guys!
> 
> Any of you guys using Chunky grips? Wondering how much better they are than the 'stock' Crank Bros foam grips.


yes but I have never used a Crankbros grip


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Any of you guys using Chunky grips? Wondering how much better they are than the 'stock' Crank Bros foam grips.


Can't tell you how much better they are than the stock grips, but I'm running them on my Krampus and like them. They're cheaper and lighter than the Ergons I've been running for years. Plus, they come in blue


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

deuxdiesel said:


> I just finished my 4th (and probably final) SS race on my Krampus, and while it is the most fun bike I have owned, it is really hard to overcome the inertia the huge tires have on twisty and punchy trails. I love it as a play bike, but for me, it doesn't work as well as a regular 29er in SS mode. Anyone else have feedback on their SS Krampus?


I love the Krampus as a single speed. No doubt you feel the wheel weight a bit when powering up steep/techy climbs, but overall it offers such an amazing ability to "point and plow" up and over things, that it balances out. Not even mentioning the huge downhill advantage over my regular, rigid 29er SS. It works as a SS better than it has any right to.

All that said, it wouldn't be my choice for an XC race bike (if I was trying to win)


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

deuxdiesel said:


> I just finished my 4th (and probably final) SS race on my Krampus, and while it is the most fun bike I have owned, it is really hard to overcome the inertia the huge tires have on twisty and punchy trails. I love it as a play bike, but for me, it doesn't work as well as a regular 29er in SS mode. Anyone else have feedback on their SS Krampus?


Interesting you mention that as before we traded bikes, I had an inclination to maybe try it geared. I noticed those heavy tires and wheels when accelerating set up as a ss. But, I hadn't ridden much this winter and spring and had zero miles in my ss bike since last fall. So i chalked the acceleration up to me being out of shape.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

I bet going to single speed and installing a carbon fork could get the Krampus' weight into the mid twenties. Thinking of doing this. But I'll definitely pick a gear combination on the low side.


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## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

The Krampus build I have is around 26-27 pounds, so it could be dropped another pound or so with a carbon fork, but beyond that there is only room for ultra WW micro-losses. Geared 2:1 it is great on the flats, but any sustained climbs the inertia of those tires gets to me. It is still the most fun bike I have ridden in years, it just seems very sensitive to gearing.


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## jgorrilla (Apr 2, 2008)

Weighty, yes. Noticeable, probably, but I don’t find myself thinking about it much. 

I pared the weigh down on my large Krampus to under 25 pounds and am running tubeless Knards and Rabbit Holes. A 1000 gram tire with a 700 gram rim definitely doesn’t spin up like a lighter set up, but again, I don’t really notice or think about it while riding. After racing mine, I don’t think the Krampus gives up a lot to a hardtail 29er SS and less to a rigid one, but it’s not a purebred race bike, it’s just a great bike that can be raced.

Personally, I think your gear ratio is too big. I ran 2:1 on a 26”, 1.88:1 on a 29er, 1.77:1 out west and other hillier locations and I run 1.56:1 on the Krampus (28x18). I’m a big rider and 2:1 is a tall gear to accelerate out of a corner from a stop or slow roll. I’d tell you try an easier gear ratio and see if that makes a difference. I did switch from the Krampus fork to a Whisky No 9 carbon fork and can't say enough good things about my experiences with that fork so far. It brought some agility back to the front end of the Krampus and as you can attest, that's saying a lot.


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## raymondy (Jul 16, 2013)

CCSS said:


> Can't tell you how much better they are than the stock grips, but I'm running them on my Krampus and like them. They're cheaper and lighter than the Ergons I've been running for years. Plus, they come in blue
> View attachment 824989


I have the same ones and love them


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## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

jgorrilla said:


> Weighty, yes. Noticeable, probably, but I don't find myself thinking about it much.
> 
> I pared the weigh down on my large Krampus to under 25 pounds and am running tubeless Knards and Rabbit Holes. A 1000 gram tire with a 700 gram rim definitely doesn't spin up like a lighter set up, but again, I don't really notice or think about it while riding. After racing mine, I don't think the Krampus gives up a lot to a hardtail 29er SS and less to a rigid one, but it's not a purebred race bike, it's just a great bike that can be raced.
> 
> Personally, I think your gear ratio is too big. I ran 2:1 on a 26", 1.88:1 on a 29er, 1.77:1 out west and other hillier locations and I run 1.56:1 on the Krampus (28x18). I'm a big rider and 2:1 is a tall gear to accelerate out of a corner from a stop or slow roll. I'd tell you try an easier gear ratio and see if that makes a difference. I did switch from the Krampus fork to a Whisky No 9 carbon fork and can't say enough good things about my experiences with that fork so far. It brought some agility back to the front end of the Krampus and as you can attest, that's saying a lot.


Thanks for the input. Man, that's some crazy low gearing. When I first got mine, it was geared at 1.6 and while it climbed like a goat, I started bouncing and spinning out a 10 MPH. The four races I have done all had significant flat portions to them, so anything less than 1.8 feels like I'm standing still. I'm pretty sure I'm done racing SS anyways (about to turn the big 5-0), so I'll just keep it as a play bike and maybe do a 1x6 on it (Hope SS hub).


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Here's my n00b question of the day: what chain guide are you guys running on your Krampus? I was under the impression that Surly shipped the bike (to LBS) with a chain guide, but one never made its way onto my bike before I purchased it. Now I am looking to buy one. Thoughts?


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Complete builds come with the MRP chain guide. However, I am considering doing away with it. Gouda, is your chain jumping off the ring? Anyone running a 1x10 without a guide? The reason I ask is I hate this thing. On the slightest muddy passes, it get gunked up and grinds the chain. If I can run safely without one, I'd love to.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Bacons said:


> Complete builds come with the MRP chain guide. However, I am considering doing away with it. Gouda, is your chain jumping off the ring? Anyone running a 1x10 without a guide? The reason I ask is I hate this thing. On the slightest muddy passes, it get gunked up and grinds the chain. If I can run safely without one, I'd love to.


Check out Wolftooth Components chainrings. They have a similar design to the XX1 ring, and will keep your chain in place.


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

deuxdiesel said:


> The Krampus build I have is around 26-27 pounds, so it could be dropped another pound or so with a carbon fork, but beyond that there is only room for ultra WW micro-losses. Geared 2:1 it is great on the flats, but any sustained climbs the inertia of those tires gets to me. It is still the most fun bike I have ridden in years, it just seems very sensitive to gearing.


Mine ended up being geared lower that I am used to, just because of parts I had available. I normally ran 34:19 on my previous 29er singlespeed (light wheels, carbon fork) but run 32:19 on the Krampus. It feels about the same. So I would definitely agree it needs to be geared a bit lower.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

I'm a little disturbed at the notion of one of these getting all surly.
.


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

On another bike I run 1x10 with a Shimano Zee clutch derailleur. My chainguide is busted so I've been running without and it works fine although I have had a couple of drops, mostly occurring when I make a sloppy downshift.

Wolf Tooth and Race Face are both making new chainrings that, when used with a clutch derailleur, are supposed to be 100% reliable. Pinkbike reviewed the raceface one recently. 
Race Face Narrow Wide Chainring - Tested - Pinkbike



Bacons said:


> Complete builds come with the MRP chain guide. However, I am considering doing away with it. Gouda, is your chain jumping off the ring? Anyone running a 1x10 without a guide? The reason I ask is I hate this thing. On the slightest muddy passes, it get gunked up and grinds the chain. If I can run safely without one, I'd love to.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Is anybody having their rotors rub against their brake pads from frame/fork flex with out of the saddle mashing? Everything's tight on the bike and adjusted properly, but I get a helluva lot of brake rub from frame flex when mashing or climbing.


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## Bacons (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks guys... I will look into both. That MRP guide has to go....


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

Bacons said:


> Complete builds come with the MRP chain guide. However, I am considering doing away with it. Gouda, is your chain jumping off the ring? Anyone running a 1x10 without a guide? The reason I ask is I hate this thing. On the slightest muddy passes, it get gunked up and grinds the chain. If I can run safely without one, I'd love to.


I'm running 1x10 with the XT clutch rear der and XX1 cranks and chainring, but the wide-narrow Raceface chainrings work just as well for a buddy of mine on his normal sized steel hardtail. I've never dropped the chain, no guide.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Is anybody having their rotors rub against their brake pads from frame/fork flex with out of the saddle mashing? Everything's tight on the bike and adjusted properly, but I get a helluva lot of brake rub from frame flex when mashing or climbing.


Yes. I get this frequently if I am really mashing on the bike up a steep hill. I attribute it to frame flex... No harm no foul.

I have been running my Krampus without a guide so far. I've really beat the piss out of it with no problems. Knock on wood.


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## WyldStallyn (Jun 5, 2013)

PretendGentleman said:


> I bought an mwod and the offset is too much. The 32 or 36 outer ring on the mwod, which I would use 85% of the time makes for a terrible chainline when you're doing moderate climbs. A regular double works fine based on earlier posts in this thread and gives you a good chainline when you're using the bigger ring for most climbs.
> 
> The mwod would be good if you expected to be in the granny gear a lot! I don't like how granny gears chew up the chain and cassette due to increased chain tension, so my mwod is off the bike. I just use a deore triple with an extra 2mm spacer behind the bb cup and a single cog off my 10sp cassette moved behind the big cog and the whole thing works like a regular triple. I'm in the middle ring 85% of the time, but the granny is there when I need it and so is the big ring.


Which offset did you get, 17.5 or 28mm? The dudes at Surly recommended the 17.5 with a 68/75BB. If that's what you were running and still had those results, I'll have to rethink my options.


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## WyldStallyn (Jun 5, 2013)

Bacons said:


> Thanks guys... I will look into both. That MRP guide has to go....


Paul Comp. makes a solid guide that'll do the trick.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Is anybody having their rotors rub against their brake pads from frame/fork flex with out of the saddle mashing?


Nope never. I'm running SLX brakes with an Avid rotor up front and a Rohloff rotor in the rear. I'm no monster in the leg power department so I may be too weak to bend the frame!


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## WyldStallyn (Jun 5, 2013)

I swapped the stock grips for Oury Lock ons. Major upgrade in comfort and grip. Had Ourys on my old MTB for years, they're so choice.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

WyldStallyn said:


> Paul Comp. makes a solid guide that'll do the trick.


Is the one we need the 28.6mm one?


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

Here are some pics of my build and my tubeless setup. Don't think I ever posted anything when I first got the bike together in the spring.

Hope hubs, Shimano XT cranks and Saint brakes, and Chromag saddle, post, QR, chainring, bar, stem and grips.

















Running 32:19 gearing which is a bit lower than I normally run on a 29er but feels right on this bike.









Tubeless using Gorilla tape inside and out. So far it has been flawless although I always run too much pressure in these tires (with or without tubes) for fear of flatting. Kind of defeats the purpose of the big tires I guess.


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## WyldStallyn (Jun 5, 2013)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Is the one we need the 28.6mm one?


I don't have one yet. I plan on replacing my MRP guide once it breaks. However, I'm pretty sure the seat tube diameter is 31.8. I measured with a ruler. I'll put some calipers to it tomorrow.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

WyldStallyn said:


> I don't have one yet. I plan on replacing my MRP guide once it breaks. However, I'm pretty sure the seat tube diameter is 31.8. I measured with a ruler. I'll put some calipers to it tomorrow.


You're a good man. Look forward to hearing the results.


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

anthony.delorenzo said:


> Here are some pics of my build[/ATTACH]


Love it! XL frame I take it? How does it compare to your old Chromag Surface with the Fox 34? What about sizing? I'm kinda wanting to try this bike out.


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## toddyyee (Aug 21, 2013)

*My Krampus*

Greetings from Singapore and below is my built


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

WyldStallyn said:


> Which offset did you get, 17.5 or 28mm? The dudes at Surly recommended the 17.5 with a 68/75BB. If that's what you were running and still had those results, I'll have to rethink my options.


I believe the 17.5 one, they market it for the pug rather than the 28mm moonlander version. The thing that's nice about the mwod is you can add back in washers to get it to have slightly more offset than a regular triple would give you for the two small rings. I think I ended up adding back in 1cm of spacers to get only7.5mm of offset and found it worked pretty well. With the full offset and riding big-big (for mwod that is) the chain would pull off the ring. This problem went away with the 1cm spacer.


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## edwin_eyemd (Oct 16, 2009)

has anyone tried lacing their rabbit holes to a pair of hope pro 2 hubs? may i know the specific length of the spokes?


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## noderailer (Jun 14, 2013)

PretendGentleman said:


> I believe the 17.5 one, they market it for the pug rather than the 28mm moonlander version. The thing that's nice about the mwod is you can add back in washers to get it to have slightly more offset than a regular triple would give you for the two small rings. I think I ended up adding back in 1cm of spacers to get only7.5mm of offset and found it worked pretty well. With the full offset and riding big-big (for mwod that is) the chain would pull off the ring. This problem went away with the 1cm spacer.


Hey PretendGentleman,

Just an unsolicited word of warning, be careful adding back large spacers in between the chainring (or MWOD spider) and the crank spider.
Believe it or not you can get some crazy torsion forces on the arms of the spider that could actually twist off the tabs and your whole chainring assembly with it!

I've seen it happen in the shop I used to work at, a guy came in with all 5 tabs broken off, and still attached to the chainring. This was on a fixie and he was a courier, so his chain mighta been too tight or there was probably other issues, but just be careful. I hear 1cm chainring spacers and I start to wonder... Could always check with Surly I suppose to see if they think it's an issue?

Just a thought,
Have a good one!


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## WyldStallyn (Jun 5, 2013)

Gouda Cheez said:


> You're a good man. Look forward to hearing the results.


The calipers read 31.8. Now it's time to wait until the anodized color of the month at Paul is gold.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

WyldStallyn said:


> The calipers read 31.8. Now it's time to wait until the anodized color of the month at Paul is gold.


Only a few more months!


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

@edwin...

see New fangled. | drj0nswanderings for the rear at least....


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

noderailer said:


> Hey PretendGentleman,
> 
> Just an unsolicited word of warning, be careful adding back large spacers in between the chainring (or MWOD spider) and the crank spider.
> Believe it or not you can get some crazy torsion forces on the arms of the spider that could actually twist off the tabs and your whole chainring assembly with it!
> ...


That's a good thought and I did think the same thing. Surly said they included the spacers so I could do just what I did.


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

eurospek said:


> Love it! XL frame I take it? How does it compare to your old Chromag Surface with the Fox 34? What about sizing? I'm kinda wanting to try this bike out.


Yep, my Krampus is an XL. In terms of sizing they are pretty close, at least for me. I run 80mm stem on the Krampus and 90mm stem on the Chromag Surface, both of them slammed. Both have 180mm cranks.

Obviously pretty different bikes so comparing directly how they ride is kind of difficult. Both bikes are awesome. For sure the Krampus rides more like a 29er singlespeed and not like a fat bike. Highly recommend trying one out if you can, they are a hoot.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I have a Krampus. I have a 100mm RS Reba RLT fork I am not using. 

Test fitting the Knard on Flows into the Reba resulted in minimal clearance and on RHs there was no clearance. So I gave up on the idea.

Now that the 29 x 2.75" Dirt Wizards are coming out I'm thinking it's worth another shot.

Thing is the Surly site lists the A-C of the Krampus fork as 483mm and says it's suspension corrected for a 120mm fork.

The A-C of the 100mm Reba is something like 505mm. 

I'm not overly worried about the increased fork length, but it just seems like a 120mm fork would be way longer than the stock fork on a Krampus.

Anyways...I'll probably give this a shot when the DW is available. I was dreaming about a FS 29+ on my last Krampus tour and this may be the ideal low cost solution to get me some improved chunk bashing performance.


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## Vincentg (Sep 24, 2008)

Recently I asked Surly about plans for the 29 DW, Their response:

"We actually aren't currently producing the Dirt Wizard tire in a 29" size. The Dirt Wizard only comes in 26x2.75". I'm sure someday we'll do a 29" version and it will most likely be designed to fit in Fox forks. We like Fox forks."


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Vincentg said:


> Recently I asked Surly about plans for the 29 DW, Their response:
> 
> "We actually aren't currently producing the Dirt Wizard tire in a 29" size. The Dirt Wizard only comes in 26x2.75". I'm sure someday we'll do a 29" version and it will most likely be designed to fit in Fox forks. We like Fox forks."












That's odd. It's in their 2014 catalogue.

I hope they gave you mis-information. If not there will be a lot of unhappy Krampus owners.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ And people hoping to fit them onto other bikes too!


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Nice to hear that they designed the DW to fit in Fox forks since I just dropped some tall coin on a 34.


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

About 20 miles today, found 2 new parks I didn't know existed and generally had a pretty good time!

"Dog B Fat"


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Another awesome ride today. Noticed I am getting creaking from somewhere. Makes me a little worried. Tightened down my crank bolts and headset bolts... hope it goes away.

Any ideas?


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

lancelot said:


> Nice to hear that they designed the DW to fit in Fox forks since I just dropped some tall coin on a 34.


Do you have a source for this or is it just a rumour??? If true, that's really excellent! :thumbsup:


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

Anybody run their Krampus on Gravel with skinnier tires? Like 1.9 or 1.75? How does it climb?


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

x3speed said:


> Anybody run their Krampus on Gravel with skinnier tires? Like 1.9 or 1.75?


Why should one do this?


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

x3speed said:


> Anybody run their Krampus on Gravel with skinnier tires? Like 1.9 or 1.75? How does it climb?


Ok, I'll bite....This really hard to answer without some more context of what you are trying to do.

Are you also running skinnier rims? Putting those tires on 2" wide Rabit Holes rims obliviously would not be recommended. Scroll down near the bottom of the page. Tire Sizing Systems

If you are running normal 700C/29er rims, then it will 'work'. It's a rigid bike with 700c, so would be fine on gravel. The geometry and handling might be way off and it will be heavy, but as BSNYC has repeatedly pointed out recently, any bike can be a gravel bike. I've put a lot of road and gravel miles on my Karate Monkey.

All depends on what you want to do, and what YOUR priorities are. What is the rest of your setup? Which Handlebars? Are you touring/carrying a load? Drivetrain/gearing? Are you racing? Long distances? Smooth or rough gravel?


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

Just curious. I'm trying to see if it's even worth trying. I'm thinking of using the bike to ride some railroad bed trails and just buying another wheelset 700c/29er. If someone has already done it and the bike rides crappy, then I won't try it. Standard Krampus build otherwise.


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## NEwrench (Aug 14, 2013)

I'm stuck between the Krampus and the Pugsley... and just because of the name, Karate Monkey.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

x3speed said:


> Just curious. I'm trying to see if it's even worth trying. I'm thinking of using the bike to ride some railroad bed trails and just buying another wheelset 700c/29er. If someone has already done it and the bike rides crappy, then I won't try it. Standard Krampus build otherwise.


I've toured gravel/dirt roads on my Krampus w/ Knards. Unless you are racing I would just ride the stock tires they work great in those conditions.

If you want to save the Knards get some 2.4" 29er rubber and run them on your existing wheels.

Unless racing is in the cards I don't see how you'd get the value from a 2nd wheelset just to ride some rail trails.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

x3speed said:


> Just curious. I'm trying to see if it's even worth trying. I'm thinking of using the bike to ride some railroad bed trails and just buying another wheelset 700c/29er. If someone has already done it and the bike rides crappy, then I won't try it. Standard Krampus build otherwise.


FWIW ive read a couple reviews that say the Krampus rides just great with a "regular" 29er wheel/tire set.

But if it was me, Id just take out my old beater 1x6 Panasonic DX3000 with its cross tires, for rail trials.


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

What psi to you run for those conditions Vik?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

x3speed said:


> What psi to you run for those conditions Vik?


Sorry I don't use a tire gauge. Basically I ride and I want to see some slight tire deformation rolling along, but not a huge bulge.

I've been riding fat bikes for years so I am pretty good at finding the pressure I want by feel.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Rail trails tend be to flat and straight. I'm sure the Krampus would ride just fine with skinny wheels and tires under these non-taxing conditions.

On the other hand, like Vik said, the Knards roll pretty good. I ride pavement for 4-5 mile stretches to get to the trails, and they do remarkably well considering their width. And you won't be paying a big weight penalty for the heavier tires on flat rail trail.

In your case, I'd probably get a cheap 29er wheelset. If nothing else, you'll save the tread of the expensive knard tires. Saving 2-3 knards will pay for a cheap wheelset.


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

Thanks guys I appreciate the help with the out loud thinking


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

NEwrench said:


> I'm stuck between the Krampus and the Pugsley... and just because of the name, Karate Monkey.


I own both a Pugsley and Krampus. In my opinion they are two _very_ different bikes.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

anthony.delorenzo said:


> I own both a Pugsley and Krampus. In my opinion they are two _very_ different bikes.


+1 - you have to decide if you want a fatbike or a mountain bike.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

I too own a Pugsley and Krampus. There is simply no comparison. They are 2 completely different animals. 
Both are tons of fun and super capable....at different tasks.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Maybe some owners of fatbikes also Krampus could elaborate as to the differences between the two?

Is it like blonde brunette difference, or like brunette redhead different?


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

Re: Krampus and 29er wheels. I rode mine that way for a couple of hundred miles when I really wanted some front suspension. I was using an Arch rim with an Ikon in the back and a Flow with an Ardent in the front. I thought it was great. The slack geometry is fun and the slightly long chain stays didn't bother me.

I now have a suspension fork that works with the RH/Knards, and it's tremendously fun. I don't think they're necessarily better than normal 29er wheels except for in soft or sandy conditions, however; they're just really fun. I may end up with a dedicated 29er wheel set for it at some point, but I want to check out the new Dirt Wizards first.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

sanjuanswan said:


> I now have a suspension fork that works with the RH/Knards, and it's tremendously fun. I don't think they're necessarily better than normal 29er wheels except for in soft or sandy conditions, however; they're just really fun. I may end up with a dedicated 29er wheel set for it at some point, but I want to check out the new Dirt Wizards first.


Just curious what fork are you running and how much travel?


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

lancelot said:


> Just curious what fork are you running and how much travel?


Modified X-Fusion Slide 29, 100mm travel.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Modified by Chris Herting?


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

lancelot said:


> Modified by Chris Herting?


Yes. You getting one too?


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

No but he just built me this. 

Sorry guys not trying to hijack thread.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

sanjuanswan said:


> Yes. You getting one too?


I might have ran into you at Chris's house. I was riding through the neighborhood, stopped by, and someone was picking up a modded fork.
.


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

Need details on this xfusion fork. Im all ears


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

x3speed said:


> Need details on this xfusion fork. Im all ears


What he said.


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

lancelot -- Yeah, I saw that in your other thread. Gorgeous bike. All of Chris's stuff is really cool. Can't wait to see the finished photos!

drummerdavid -- that was me!

x3speed -- It's the same idea as any of the other modified forks people have posted. Just a regular X-Fusion fork with some metal removed from the bridge. There are some photos in the story on the 3D 29+ bike at TwentyNineInches.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

I would love to see him mod a Trace. Just curious if it has a little more clearance to start with.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

sanjuanswan said:


> ....drummerdavid -- that was me!...


Thats funny.

I've been thinking about a fork for my Krampus and wondering how you liked yours.... and what the whole thing cost.

OTOH, I like the Krampus simple. Its like going back to my first mountain bike in 1983. Well, not really.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

I dug up a couple pics of Chris's Slide. Pre and post mod.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

drummerdavid said:


> I like the Krampus simple.


That's it. Surly gives us a bike which is simple - and first thing some people do is thinking how a complicated suspension fork can fit:madman:


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

jonshonda said:


> Is it like blonde brunette difference, or like brunette redhead different?


I'm not sure I understand what you mean here - perhaps you could expand on what differences you perceive...


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

Don't even mention gingers <blast I said it> :nono:


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

satanas said:


> I'm not sure I understand what you mean here - perhaps you could expand on what differences you perceive...


Well I saw a shop mounting p35's with knards on a 9zero and it really interested me. I am wondering if it be worth my time to try a similar setup out, or just stick with my current setups which are rd w/ knard and hudu, and my nimble 9 with 2.4 tires?


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Oh, you were talking about bike parts in code then? I was hoping for something more interesting, but less PC. (I'll leave the tyre comments to others who've had wider experience - pun not intended. )


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

jonshonda said:


> Well I saw a shop mounting p35's with knards on a 9zero and it really interested me. I am wondering if it be worth my time to try a similar setup out, or just stick with my current setups which are rd w/ knard and hudu, and my nimble 9 with 2.4 tires?


Well the cost for new wheel set + tires is significant. For a RH+ Knard combo you are getting close to $1K without some sort of discount. You'll end up with a 29+ fatbike that's closer to a 29er MTB than a fatbike.

Given that you have a 29er MTB it's hard to say if it's worth it or not.

I used the parts from my 29er hardtail to build my Krampus. Personally I can't see much point having both. I wouldn't ride them both enough to justify the builds.

I've ridden a N9 - it's a great 29er... :thumbsup:

If you've got a shop doing cool stuff like building 29+ wheels for a fatbike maybe you can score a test ride on a Krampus? That would give you some additional insight into the question.

BTW - I've used a Knard on a Stan's Flow no problem so you can probably try out a Knard on the front of your N9 depending what fork you are running. That might also be useful for figuring out if you want to drop the $$ for a 29+ fatbike wheelset.


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## Guest (Aug 27, 2013)

DerBergschreck said:


> That's it. Surly gives us a bike which is simple - and first thing some people do is thinking how a complicated suspension fork can fit:madman:


come up for a bit of air for pity sakes.........choices is a good thing.. complicated this is not..


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

Thank you for sharing!!!


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Anyone have any input about which hitch racks work well with the Krampus? Would hate to buy one and have the 29x3's screw me over.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

lancelot said:


> I dug up a couple pics of Chris's Slide. Pre and post mod.


Does he do this stuff for customer's outside of his area?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Anyone have any input about which hitch racks work well with the Krampus? Would hate to buy one and have the 29x3's screw me over.












My Krampus goes into our Yakima rack with no hassles.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Does he do this stuff for customer's outside of his area?


Use a dremel tool and you can shape your fork brace at home. There is no magic to it beyond taking off as little material as you can to get the desired clearance.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Thanks, Vik!


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Anyone have any input about which hitch racks work well with the Krampus? Would hate to buy one and have the 29x3's screw me over.


North Shore Rack


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

jonshonda said:


> Maybe some owners of fatbikes also Krampus could elaborate as to the differences between the two?
> 
> Is it like blonde brunette difference, or like brunette redhead different?


One is a mountain bike, one is a snow bike.

You want to ride on snow you pay the price in terms of a slow, heavy bike that has an akward wide crank and steers like a cow. But it sure as hell can ride on snow, especially with some 80's and Big Fat Larrys.

You want to shred some dirt or go bashing through the wilderness (when it's not covered in snow) you get yourself a Krampus. Mine rides like a 29er singlespeed with heavier wheels.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I guess my only fat experience is with a 9zero, but I am going to have to disagree with you about the fat bike characteristics. With rd,s and a hudu on the front it steered fine. I like the wider q factor, and I would always choose my fat bike with the widest tires possible for trail blazing.

Ohhh, and Larry doesn't hold a candle to Nate in the snow.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

jonshonda said:


> I guess my only fat experience is with a 9zero, but I am going to have to disagree with you about the fat bike characteristics. With rd,s and a hudu on the front it steered fine. I like the wider q factor, and I would always choose my fat bike with the widest tires possible for trail blazing.
> 
> Ohhh, and Larry doesn't hold a candle to Nate in the snow.


Are you saying you would choose your fatbike over a Krampus for trail blazing????

Cuz if you are, there is something wrong with your Krampus!!!!!!!

I have a Pugsley and a Krampus, so I am able to compare. I have also ridden a 9zero7, and Fatback fatbikes, so I am not just comparing to the Pugs.

Dont get me wrong here, I love my Pugsley, and I used to ride it more seasons than just winter, BUT, now that I have the Krampus, the fatbike is parked for 3 seasons.


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

I've had a moonie and of course I have a krampus, they are equally entertaining in the dirt in my opinion.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

ale50ale said:


> Are you saying you would choose your fatbike over a Krampus for trail blazing????
> 
> Cuz if you are, there is something wrong with your Krampus!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


Same, I have a 907 and loved the big tires. I found it just a little too much for the summer so I build up a Krampus and sold my FS bike. It is a true blast I am so fast on it I sometimes scare myself ........ no more skinny tires for me. I just quit cold turkey no withdrawal symptoms what so ever.


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## octavius (Sep 26, 2008)

had a dream last night i was blasting a krampus down a trail... (the bike, not the goat headed bampot!)

think im gonna need to get a knard at least. seems to be working out on mud for folk (and its not crazy muck here yet) cant wait 'til the dirt wizard gets here, ill just get one on when that happens.


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## Mossyman34 (May 4, 2013)

Heres some 29er footage


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

ale50ale said:


> Are you saying you would choose your fatbike over a Krampus for trail blazing????
> 
> Cuz if you are, there is something wrong with your Krampus!!!!!!!


I don't have a krampus!! That is why I am asking about the differences silly!

I just can't see how you would want anything less than 4" tires on a forest floor. But, I will need to talk the Lbs into letting me try one out.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

In a few weeks I will order the parts of my Krampus 

Most parts are selected but since Velocity presented the Dually 45 mm rim I ask myself which is the better rim: the rabbithole or the dually rim???

When a wheel is built with a rabbithole rim - how is the spoke pattern? Do the spokes from the left hub side go to the left rim side or do they "cross" na go to the other side? How are the spokes at the Surly on the stock Krampus fixed?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

DerBergschreck said:


> In a few weeks I will order the parts of my Krampus
> 
> Most parts are selected but since Velocity presented the Dually 45 mm rim I ask myself which is the better rim: the rabbithole or the dually rim???


You can't buy the Dually from Velocity yet so it depends how long you can wait. If you need to buy rims in the short term you may not have them as an option.

I run Surly Rabbit Holes on my Krampus and have used a couple different Surly rims on my Pugsley.

I have Velocity rims on several of my bikes including P35s on my main MTB.

From a quality/performance perspective I have no issues with either variety of rim.

The offset Rabbit Hole spoke holes give you some flexibility on how you build up your wheels.

Weight wise they are both in the same range and since the Dually has not been sold yet it's not 100% that it will weigh what the spec sheet says.

They look quite different which may appeal to you one way or the other. You can use coloured rim tape with the Rabbit Hole if you want to have them stand out or run black if you want to look stealthy. The Dually comes in black or silver same as the RH's.

The Dually's are double walled vs. the single wall RH's. That could matter to you, but the full range of Surly singe walled rims have been used hard for a number of years with no real complaints so it's not something I would suggest will have real world implications for ride feel or durability.

Some people complain about Velocity's other wide rims [like the P35] being very soft and easily damaged. I have used mine quite hard on chunky terrain with low pressure tires and have not had an issue.

Both the Dually and the RH can be setup tubeless, but neither offer any proper tubeless design like the Stan's rims for example.

RH's are 50mm wide and Dually's are 45mm wide. I doubt that will result in much difference in practice.

RH's MSRP for $150 and the Dually MSRPs for $133...which is a wash to me.

At this point, until we get some real world feedback on the Dually's, it wouldn't bother me either way which rims I used. The RH's have an edge I guess because they are a known quantity, but it's not like Velocity is making their first set of bicycle rims. They put out a solid product and the Dually is not likely to be an exception.


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

Vik's answer is excellent. I would only add that the Dually is tubeless-ready while the RH is not and even has the large holes that add a step.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Eddiecycle said:


> I would only add that the Dually is tubeless-ready while the RH is not and even has the large holes that add a step.


The tubeless ready performance of Velocity rims [like the P35] has some critics. I've done well on P35s with UST tires using yellow stans tape and a rubber rim strip, but never tried a tire that wasn't designed to be run tubeless like the Knard.

For the RH if you cool with the split tube method a tubeless setup shouldn't take any longer than on a Dually.

Until we actually get some Dually's in the wild it's hard to know how easily/well they will setup tubeless with Knards.

At least with the RH's the Knard's tubeless performance is pretty well documented.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

I wrote it in another thread:
In the Surly 2014 catalog is drawing of the rabbithole rim where we can see liitle "edges" inside the rim shoulder, that (should?) prevent the tire moves to the inner side which blows off some air (which can be dangerous on descends) - the Velocity Dually doesn't have such edges. So could it be that the RH rim is the better tubeless rim?

Here is the drawing:


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

Krampus related... anyone know when the ECR is coming out or how to get a ride on one in Germany? I saw one at EuroBike the other day and it's sweet!


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Derberg, the velocity wheel 
also has bead hooks. 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

1 Speed said:


> Krampus related... anyone know when the ECR is coming out or how to get a ride on one in Germany? I saw one at EuroBike the other day and it's sweet!


I haven't seen anything official from Surly on an ECR release date.

When the Krampus was released last year you could get frames/forks in Dec 2012 as I recall and the completes didn't show up at my LBS until Apr/May 2013.

Hopefully the ECR completes hit the stores earlier than spring 2014.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

Yikes!


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## McFlyMpls (Jan 10, 2008)

Krampuslauf Graz

Krampuslauf Graz 2010 - YouTube


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

McFlyMpls said:


> Krampuslauf Graz
> 
> Krampuslauf Graz 2010 - YouTube


That is awesome


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

DerBergschreck said:


> I wrote it in another thread:
> In the Surly 2014 catalog is drawing of the rabbithole rim where we can see liitle "edges" inside the rim shoulder, that (should?) prevent the tire moves to the inner side which blows off some air (which can be dangerous on descends) - the Velocity Dually doesn't have such edges. So could it be that the RH rim is the better tubeless rim?


My wire bead knards burped easily on my rabbit hole rims. it seems that the kevlar bead tires worked better for this, but I haven't tried them myself. I'm waiting for the 29 dirt wizards so I can run a suspension fork!


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I'm starting to get a gnarly creaking noise when pedaling hard up a hill. Any of you guys have any experience in this area? Seems like it's coming from the front wheel area (maybe the fork) or maybe the pedals.

Just had it at the LBS for a tune up and they said that everything was kosher.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

1 Speed said:


> Krampus related... anyone know when the ECR is coming out or how to get a ride on one in Germany? I saw one at EuroBike the other day and it's sweet!


Straggler, ETA of September 2013
*ECR, ETA of September 2013 for frames and December 2013 for Completes*
Instigator, ETA of March 2014

ETA- Estimated Time of Arrival

Ta-Dah | Blog | Surly Bikes


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

thickfog said:


> Derberg, the velocity wheel
> also has bead hooks.


Hm - but I cant't see them on this velocity drawing:

https://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Dually-final.jpg


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## octavius (Sep 26, 2008)

Knard ordered today, hopefully a spin on wednesday on the p-35

Very excited.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

Knard question

My knards have run kind of lumpy ever since fixing my first flats. I think I seated them as well as I could. Any techniques for getting them seated super evenly?


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

DerBergschreck said:


> Hm - but I cant't see them on this velocity drawing:
> 
> https://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Dually-final.jpg


Edit. Sorry, thought your were talking about the outer bead shelf. Fwiw, my velocity wheels hold a bead tubeless as well as my surly rims. Neither hold as well as my stans rims.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4


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## octavius (Sep 26, 2008)

Drummerdavid

Assume you pumped them up really hard and then dropped the pressure again?

Just a suggestion?


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

octavius said:


> Drummerdavid
> 
> Assume you pumped them up really hard and then dropped the pressure again?
> 
> Just a suggestion?


Good thought. It was a repair on the trail with a tiny little pump. So I didnt do that. Will do.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

renegade44 said:


> Straggler, ETA of September 2013
> *ECR, ETA of September 2013 for frames and December 2013 for Completes*
> Instigator, ETA of March 2014
> 
> ...


Thanks a bunch!


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## Osiris sky (Apr 29, 2013)

I've been running a krampus fork with knard 27tpi on p35 for a couple of months now. I love it. The feel and handling is much improved over a suspension fork to me. I can't run one in back yet, but hope to come across a Krampus frame, in my budget, soon. I've been running the knard and fork on a Redline D660 frame.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

thickfog said:


> They are there, just not as pronounced. Fwiw, my velocity wheels hold a bead tubeless as well as my surly rims. Neither hold as well as my stans rims.


My Velocity P35 has no bead - the Dually seems to be the same thing - as mikesee criticized in another thread in this forum.

Why should Velocity make a drawing that hides an advantage?


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

DerBergschreck said:


> My Velocity P35 has no bead - the Dually seems to be the same thing - as mikesee criticized in another thread in this forum.
> 
> Why should Velocity make a drawing that hides an advantage?


Sorry, misunderstood you. I see no inner bead shelf either.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Has anyone here tried to set up 29x3 Knards tubeless on Schlick Northpaw 29+ rims yet? I am still running mine with lightweight 29er tubes, and Surly rim strips.


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## seely (Jan 20, 2004)

DerBergschreck said:


> My Velocity P35 has no bead - the Dually seems to be the same thing - as mikesee criticized in another thread in this forum.
> 
> Why should Velocity make a drawing that hides an advantage?


The P35 was not designed to be tubeless ready (though the current Blunt 35 is). The Dually does indeed have a shoulder, just not as pronounced as in our narrower rims.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Here are the "other" rims that are being overlooked.

http://schlickcycles.com/2013/05/08/northpaw-29er-rims-now-available/


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

seely said:


> The Dually does indeed have a shoulder, just not as pronounced as in our narrower rims.


Hm - is there any picture where we can see this shoulder?
This would be very helpful for choosing the right rim


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## WyldStallyn (Jun 5, 2013)

Gouda Cheez said:


> I'm starting to get a gnarly creaking noise when pedaling hard up a hill. Any of you guys have any experience in this area? Seems like it's coming from the front wheel area (maybe the fork) or maybe the pedals.
> 
> Just had it at the LBS for a tune up and they said that everything was kosher.


Hey Gouda, it could be creaking as a result of some dust in and around the headset. I had the same sound coming from the same place. Everything was working fine, but I was annoyed by the sound. It went away after I cleaned the dust out of my headset.


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## WyldStallyn (Jun 5, 2013)

It's so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

The grey looks great. I like the idea of planning for some gravel dust on the bike. Good work!


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

WyldStallyn said:


> View attachment 830039
> 
> 
> It's so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.


Ferris?
Cameron?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Yes. I get this frequently if I am really mashing on the bike up a steep hill. I attribute it to frame flex...


What rotors are you running?

The reason I ask is because I was using 180mm F/R SLX centerlock rotors when I was having all my rubbing issues. I thought nothing of it and kept riding as I have been. I recently switched to 200mm/180mm F/R HS1 rotors with centerlock adapters and haven't had any rubbing issues yet (fingers crossed)! I'm curious if the rotors have anything to do with it. While the centerlock rotors stayed 100% true all the time, they were noising as hell and rubbed with frame flex. Avid rotors never seem to stay true, but are much quieter in my experience and haven't had any sort of rubbing issues...even with me trying to make it rub.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> What rotors are you running?
> 
> The reason I ask is because I was using 180mm F/R SLX centerlock rotors when I was having all my rubbing issues. I thought nothing of it and kept riding as I have been. I recently switched to 200mm/180mm F/R HS1 rotors with centerlock adapters and haven't had any rubbing issues yet (fingers crossed)! I'm curious if the rotors have anything to do with it. While the centerlock rotors stayed 100% true all the time, they were noising as hell and rubbed with frame flex. Avid rotors never seem to stay true, but are much quieter in my experience and haven't had any sort of rubbing issues...even with me trying to make it rub.


I'm running the factory spec Clean Sweeps. Hardly ever notice the noise anymore.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

WyldStallyn said:


> Hey Gouda, it could be creaking as a result of some dust in and around the headset. I had the same sound coming from the same place. Everything was working fine, but I was annoyed by the sound. It went away after I cleaned the dust out of my headset.


Is it a pain in the arse to clean that out? I'd like to avoid taking anything apart if I can.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Triple post! But good news... No more creaking. Took apart my quick release skewers and lubed them up with a thin thin cost of grease and tightened things up nice and tight. Also took apart my Crank Bros pedals and regreased those. Adios creak!


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## mowabb (Dec 9, 2011)

Work in progress!


















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

mowabb said:


> Work in progress![/URL]


Looks like a good start. :thumbsup:


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## SteveJfromtheSwitch (Feb 8, 2012)

that's looking great! love the Thommo bar!


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## marty_hd (Oct 26, 2005)

Perspective on wheel size...


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

Nice mister.... Kind of the difference between the Krampus and the Moonlander. 

We missed you this past weekend at SSWC.


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## WyldStallyn (Jun 5, 2013)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Triple post! But good news... No more creaking. Took apart my quick release skewers and lubed them up with a thin thin cost of grease and tightened things up nice and tight. Also took apart my Crank Bros pedals and regreased those. Adios creak!


Nice dude. You've gotta love it when the only sound coming from your bike is the hum of the tires.


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## seely (Jan 20, 2004)

DerBergschreck said:


> Hm - is there any picture where we can see this shoulder?
> This would be very helpful for choosing the right rim


We've already shipped the ones we've gotten so far, but when I get another set in I'll try to remember to take a pic. The A23 has a deeply recessed web, being a taller rim, whereas the Dually has a shallow web and a gentle taper to the shoulder, so it doesn't look as dramatic as it does in our other rims, if that makes any sense. We got one up tubeless here the other day and couldn't get it to burp at a very low pressure, even pulling the bead inward off the rim.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

seely said:


> The P35 was not designed to be tubeless ready (though the current Blunt 35 is). The Dually does indeed have a shoulder, just not as pronounced as in our narrower rims.


Funny I have had it easier setting the same UST tires on P35s vs. some Blunt 35s. Once setup they have both worked without issue. No burping, hassles and I rarely have to add air.


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## chilled_kroete (Jul 17, 2008)

Hi there, I've been a quiet reader of this thread for quite a long time and the more I've read about this bike, the more I wanted to grab one.

Two months ago I found a great offer: A like new looking Krampus that has been built up by the owner of a bikeshop and that had to go because he needed some more space in this garage. I got it for 1400 € (~ 1800 $).

So here it is:





The following parts are different from the stock specs:

Crankset:
e.13 LG1 Single-Double

Chainring:
Blackspire, 36 teeth

Chainguide:
e.13 XCX

Rear hub:
Sram x9

Grips:
ESI Chunky

Pedals:
Shimano Saint

This bike is so much fun to ride, I take it on the trail whenever I can! Totally happy and very impressed! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

Has anyone had any more luck getting a fork onto their Krampus? The Lefty and German.a Fat Flame both require a front wheel rebuild and a new hub (and potentially new spokes if the flanges are different). I can get up to 15mm x 100mm with my X9 hubs, but not the 20mm x 110mm the Flame requires and the lefty hub's a whole 'nother beast. I tried stuffing it into my Fox 34, but the 1mm of clearance skeeved me out pretty good and I wasn't about to start grinding down a fork that nice.

I suppose getting a used somethingorother and taking a dremel to the arch is an option. Any recommendations for an overbuilt 29er fork to be on the lookout for?


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

Yea, several people have posted stories and pictures of success in this thread and in the "Krampus with front suspension" thread. I'm surprised that your 34 doesn't have enough clearance since people seem to generally be having the most luck with Fox forks.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

I have descent clearance in my 34. I trimmed the nipples off because the noise was a bit much. Just curious what pressure your running. I originally pumped mine to 20psi and they were really close. When I back off the pressure to where it should be for my taste it cleared much better. Also keep in mind the Dirt Wizards are coming and they might have more clearance.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

lancelot said:


> I have descent clearance in my 34. I trimmed the nipples off because the noise was a bit much. Just curious what pressure your running. I originally pumped mine to 20psi and they were really close. When I back off the pressure to where it should be for my taste it cleared much better. Also keep in mind the Dirt Wizards are coming and they might have more clearance.


I'm excited about the prospect of dirt wizards and easy suspension fork compatibility with my krampus. For the southern piedmont riding where I am 90% of the time rigid is fine, but when I hit the mountains, it's rough rough rough.

But my more pressing concern is freehub bodies. I just cracked my second xt freehub body in less than a year and despite (or because of..) being a shop mechanic I can't really afford a fancier one.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

WyldStallyn said:


> Nice dude. You've gotta love it when the only sound coming from your bike is the hum of the tires.


Yessir! Now I hope it lasts!


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

PretendGentleman said:


> I just cracked my second xt freehub body in less than a year and despite (or because of..) being a shop mechanic I can't really afford a fancier one.


I think it's definitely because of, based on my experience. What I don't quite understand is how "fancier" necessarily equates with "more reliable." Shimano should be good for warranty anyhow, so just keep sending them back!!! :thumbsup:


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## Vincentg (Sep 24, 2008)

I have a nearly new Krampus with the large frame. I'd rather have a medium or even a small. Anyone interested in swapping frames? I'm in Colorado.


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

vikb?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Vincentg said:


> I have a nearly new Krampus with the large frame. I'd rather have a medium or even a small. Anyone interested in swapping frames? I'm in Colorado.





ScaryJerry said:


> vikb?


Just read these.

If you were in town I'd probably suggest getting a 24 of beer and doing the swap one weekend.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around the effort to unbuild/rebuild my bike and cost to get the large. My frame is not new either. It has no "damage", but it has seen action and there is some expected wear and tear. Frame shipping will probably cost us each $75-$100 and I wouldn't be willing to pay extra for a "new" frame. beyond shipping costs from me to you.

I'm definitely intrigued...still thinking. Feel free to PM me to discuss.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> What rotors are you running?
> 
> The reason I ask is because I was using 180mm F/R SLX centerlock rotors when I was having all my rubbing issues. I thought nothing of it and kept riding as I have been. I recently switched to 200mm/180mm F/R HS1 rotors with centerlock adapters and haven't had any rubbing issues yet (fingers crossed)! I'm curious if the rotors have anything to do with it. While the centerlock rotors stayed 100% true all the time, they were noising as hell and rubbed with frame flex. Avid rotors never seem to stay true, but are much quieter in my experience and haven't had any sort of rubbing issues...even with me trying to make it rub.


Bringing back up this subject, is anybody having rotor rub issues with frame flex? I'm beginning to get some serious rub while mashing that's on my rear wheel only, and it's driving me nuts. I've heard it could partially be attributed to mechanical disc brakes. I had similar noise years ago on a different bike with BB5s and it went away when I got Elixirs. I had planned to get hydro's eventually...wondering if that will help with anything. Input? Anybody else's rotors start making noise while mashing up a hill?


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

I am running BB7's (180mm) in the rear and no issues at all. Could there possibly be some play in the hub? I had rubbing while mashing with the same brakes on my Ti Jones with an XT hub and the issue went away when I adjusted the cones.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Nope, everything on the bike is tight.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Nope, everything on the bike is tight.


QR tight enough? I am sure you checked it but it is a possibility.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

It's all tight


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## Rattattack (Sep 19, 2013)

Hi Vik - What??? Your thinking L would be better now? 

I read all the Large or Medium Frame discussions with interest, and you were somewhat ambivalent back the origninal post. My challenge is that there are no test bikes out here in Berlin, Germany for me, so I have to order one, and hope for the best.

I am 5-10+ and have 32/32 inch inseam, long torso/arms - but at 50 yrs old, a more upright position would be appreciated to take some pressure off the wrists, shoulders, and neck. I've had a 19.5 L frame 970 Trek for 20 years, and it is to stretched out for me anymore, but it has a much shorter ETT than the Krampus L. The seat remains higher than the bars regardless of my efforts to get the cockpit up, that was the race geometry I guess, didn't notice it the first 16 years of trails and commuting - same applications I'm looking for with the Krampus.

What benefits do you expect moving from M to an L Frame Krampus (if you could do it again)?

Thanks


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

While I'm not Vik, I'll add my 2 cents. I'm 5'11" and the medium fits me perfect. Another thing to consider is the difference between your old-school Trek geometry and the current/modern geometry of MTBs and the Krampus. Specificially, modern bike geo (generally) means short rear centers, long TT and lower BBs. So, comparing your old Trek to the Krampus isn't exactly apples to apples. I highly reccomend a medium Krampus with a shorter stem and wider bars than your probably used to. Good luck!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Rattattack said:


> Hi Vik - What??? Your thinking L would be better now?












I buy most of my bikes sight unseen. So deciding on a bike from geo charts is what I am used to. With Surly in particular, but also true for most other bikes I can ride 2 sizes fine.

I chose the medium for a number of reasons including fit and it works fine - more than fine really it works great. I am happy to ride a medium and I have no plans to change.

But, I could also ride a large just fine and if I was starting over would probably get a large. If the guy from CO who wants to trade a med for a lrg lived in my town I would for sure swap him frames. Having to deal with shipping and some risk makes the deal less appealing.

Why do I want a large? Nothing life or death. Getting a bigger frame triangle means I can use a bigger frame bag, longer wheelbase for stability and higher TT. I would use a shorter stem to adjust for the longer TT so I am back in the same position.

This is why I wouldn't spend a lot of $$ and swap frames. The fit is fine.

You can see my riding position on a medium. I'm 5' 11" with 33" pants inseam and long arms.

I agree with PP that nothing about what you write suggest you want a large frame.










I bought my Krampus as a frame and built it up. That allowed me to cut the steerer myself and put the bars at any height I choose.

The photo above is a Krampus complete at my LBS. I assume the steerer is factory cut so you can see where they are leaving it.


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

I am 5'10+ with short legs and average arms and the medium fits me well with a 60mm stem. I like a neutral rise and I need a lot of spacers under the stem to be comfortable. I don't think the large would work for me.


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## Rattattack (Sep 19, 2013)

Pulsepro - Vik thanks guys, that is really excellent information. I was looking for more photos of riders on their Krampus (with info on their approx dimensions and bike size) so that was really insightful. I have a much better picture of things and it will be a M size for me, as I don't really need the extra space for baggage/camping. Is that photo in your LBS an L or M?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Rattattack said:


> Is that photo in your LBS an L or M?


I don't recall for certain, but based on the angle of the TT vs. the seatstays I'm going to say it was a large.


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## Vincentg (Sep 24, 2008)

It's interesting that the head tube length for the large is only .4" longer than the small. At 5'-8" I actually can fit well on the small or medium, and the large is not that much of a stretch. If packing a lot of stuff was a priority, I'd actually choose the large. For me, stand over height on the large is workable but on the high side, length is no problem with a short stem. I have to make more of an effort to weight the front for traction with the longer front end than I would with the small. I have the large because at this time if you want to buy used, you can't be choosey. But I'm with Vic, I'd make a swap if it were convenient, but I'm not willing to pay a bunch for shipping.


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## dovebiker (Jul 22, 2013)

Not quite a Krampus - but heavily influenced. Custom titanium 29er plus - I need a size small, but like a low front end, so opted for a 440mm rigid fork. Being Old School, I'm sticking to bar ends and don't see the need for fripperies like dropper-posts, hence the ISP. Running 2x9 drivetrain and wheels are P35 rims on Hope hubs. Built for all-day epics - rides like a dream and looking forward to racking up some great rides.


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## salt_fish (Mar 28, 2013)

dovebiker said:


> Not quite a Krampus - but heavily influenced. Custom titanium 29er plus - I need a size small, but like a low front end, so opted for a 440mm rigid fork. Being Old School, I'm sticking to bar ends and don't see the need for fripperies like dropper-posts, hence the ISP. Running 2x9 drivetrain and wheels are P35 rims on Hope hubs. Built for all-day epics - rides like a dream and looking forward to racking up some great rides.


That is a seriously sweet bike! Where did you get it made? I bet it was fun for the frame builder to put together. 29+ looks great on a smaller frame for sure.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

dovebiker said:


> Not quite a Krampus - but heavily influenced. Custom titanium 29er plus - I need a size small, but like a low front end, so opted for a 440mm rigid fork. Being Old School, I'm sticking to bar ends and don't see the need for fripperies like dropper-posts, hence the ISP. Running 2x9 drivetrain and wheels are P35 rims on Hope hubs. Built for all-day epics - rides like a dream and looking forward to racking up some great rides.


That bike says "Don't F with me".

Totally cool!


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

coolest thing i've seen all day by far!


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## mowabb (Dec 9, 2011)

My Rasta Krampus:


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Bringing back up this subject, is anybody having rotor rub issues with frame flex? I'm beginning to get some serious rub while mashing that's on my rear wheel only, and it's driving me nuts. I've heard it could partially be attributed to mechanical disc brakes. I had similar noise years ago on a different bike with BB5s and it went away when I got Elixirs. I had planned to get hydro's eventually...wondering if that will help with anything. Input? Anybody else's rotors start making noise while mashing up a hill?


No issue here with the XL stock build (BB7, 180 front, 160 rear). I'm 215 lbs, and ridden hard up a lot of steep stuff. I'm also a single-speeder, so can mash pretty hard.


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2013)

Rode one earlier this year at the LBS, seems spendy for what you get but I do like the ride and appreciate any bike that will climb stairs without bending the rims. No idea where the name came from (surely it wasn't intended as a college campus bike) my money is on either a variation of "Grampas" for us old guys, or "Cramp-Ass" because the seat isn't up to the quality of the build.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Forster said:


> No idea where the name came from


Krampus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

Krampus tire question- my SS Krampus came with the 120 TPI Knards, and I ran them for about 200 miles (tubed) at ~12 psi and things were fine. Yesterday on a whim, I switched them out with the 27 TPI Knards I have been running on my Mukluk. Same tubes, same pressure, but wow, what a difference in ride quality! The 27's seem much more springy on small roots and rocks, with no difference in cornering ability. Yes, they are a good 200 g more than the 120's, but it seems worth it. It seems counter-intuitive to what I've learned about tires over the years. Anyone else have this experience?


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

deuxdiesel said:


> Krampus tire question- my SS Krampus came with the 120 TPI Knards, and I ran them for about 200 miles (tubed) at ~12 psi and things were fine. Yesterday on a whim, I switched them out with the 27 TPI Knards I have been running on my Mukluk. Same tubes, same pressure, but wow, what a difference in ride quality! The 27's seem much more springy on small roots and rocks, with no difference in cornering ability. Yes, they are a good 200 g more than the 120's, but it seems worth it. It seems counter-intuitive to what I've learned about tires over the years. Anyone else have this experience?


usually springy is bad as far as suspension goes. damping takes the spring out of a bounce which may be what the 120's do better (I'd expect whichever tire has a coarser thread, heavier sidewall to be a better damper, my guess would have been the 27 tpi tires). I figure springy tires are bad because you don't want to bounce when you hit a bump while turning, as this would be terrible for traction.

Maybe we're not talking about the same thing when we say springy. I would guess that the stiffer 27tpi sidewalls absorb more energy when you hit bumps, making them less springy.


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

My wheel with the 27 tpi Knard feels slightly heavier than my wheel with the 120 tpi when I pick them up, but I cannot tell any difference whatsoever in ride quality. Maybe I'm insensitive.


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

PretendGentleman said:


> Maybe we're not talking about the same thing when we say springy. I would guess that the stiffer 27tpi sidewalls absorb more energy when you hit bumps, making them less springy.


this.


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## Ripperme48 (Apr 29, 2006)

*My Krampus*

This is my medium. So far I have replaced the stock cassette with a 11/36 for mountain grinders, as well a 32 tooth front ring. White Bros. Rock Solid Carbon fork, Race Face Atlas stem, Titec (jones) H-bar, Ergon large grips (I have HUGE hands ), Juicy 5 Hydros, X fusion Hilo dropper with remote. Send it. :thumbsup:


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## Rattattack (Sep 19, 2013)

Hi Ripperme48, 
thx for the nice pics, your Krampus looks fantastic, really like your RF stem, the bars and grips look great - I'm in awe. The frame is an M, looks totally proportional, not at all dominated by the wheels - would you mind sharing your size as well? Height and inseam? How's the reach to the bars, are you sitting back some or more over the front wheel? Any plans to put on any other accessories, mud guards or fenders, rack?


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## deuxdiesel (Jan 14, 2007)

PretendGentleman said:


> usually springy is bad as far as suspension goes. damping takes the spring out of a bounce which may be what the 120's do better (I'd expect whichever tire has a coarser thread, heavier sidewall to be a better damper, my guess would have been the 27 tpi tires). I figure springy tires are bad because you don't want to bounce when you hit a bump while turning, as this would be terrible for traction.
> 
> Maybe we're not talking about the same thing when we say springy. I would guess that the stiffer 27tpi sidewalls absorb more energy when you hit bumps, making them less springy.


Maybe so. The 27's felt a lot more like actual suspension off of small root drops and rocks than the 120's ever did. Anyways, I'm glad I made the switch.


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## Ripperme48 (Apr 29, 2006)

Thanks! I love the bike. I plan on putting a suspension fork on it at some point. Maybe a couple of fenders for winter. I am 5'9 and have a 30 in inseam. The stock stem was a bit long for my taste so I put the shorter RF Atlas on it.


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## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

I was checking on some less expensive rim options for the krampugs project - and found 
Weinmann Metal Products Co., LTD 
They say they come in 700c... any validation?


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## Rattattack (Sep 19, 2013)

Ripperme48, thanks for all the GEO date. Cherry bike, or sparkle apple, whatever, and the H-bars are something I never saw before out here in Euroland, immediately must have. I did see one awesome fatbike last weekend leading a pack of very high end racing fs mtbs (epic stumpies, etc) heading up a trail in Grünewald here. He did not touch the brakes bombing like a train downhill and left them further behind. I later passed them all on my Trek 970 but only maintained that for about a minute before they blew on by again. Thanks to you - and very many others - for sharing info and showing us what's out there and how it rides, keep it coming.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

*Guess I'm tough on Knards*

Knard tread wears pretty fast, (I guess that's a Surly tire thing? This is my first experience) but while examining my tires today I found some other surprises. A gash in my rear tire and a few spots where the sidewall scuffed away to reveal threads on the front tire. I'm only posting one picture of the threads, though. Nothing that a layer of super glue can't fix :thumbsup: I don't ride rocks really at all, but for those who do I can't imagine what your tires look like.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

*right headset for krampus frame?*

Got my Krampus frame yesterday and now I'm looking for the right headset.

Steering tube inner diameter is 44 mm, fork tube has 1 1/8" alias 28,6 mm.

Stock Krampus has a Canecreek 40 series for 44 and so I looked at the cancreek website:

40-Series

So which of these will fit? Best for me would be a very tall headset because I want a higher handlebar and don't want so much ugly spacers.

The value of 44 is clear. But why is there the number 40? The fork tube has 28,6 - I cannot see a number 40 here


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

DerBergschreck said:


> Got my Krampus frame yesterday and now I'm looking for the right headset.
> 
> Steering tube inner diameter is 44 mm, fork tube has 1 1/8" alias 28,6 mm.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure exactly what the standards refer to, but I think I used zs 44 and ec 44 cups. the bottom cup is for giant steerer tubes and the baseplate (sold separately from lower cup) adapts the fork to it. the top cup does the adapting to 1 1/8" itself. The only top cup I've seen is the hidden style and I feel like you that I want a regular headset up top since I've got spacers anyways. If I ever went with a king headset, I'd definitely want it sticking out prominently up top.

and speaking of headsets. anybody else have issues with their bottom cup wobbling in the frame? I'm on my second cup and it still has the problem. I tried loc-tite retaining compound and it didn't help.



sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Knard tread wears pretty fast, (I guess that's a Surly tire thing? This is my first experience) but while examining my tires today I found some other surprises. A gash in my rear tire and a few spots where the sidewall scuffed away to reveal threads on the front tire. I'm only posting one picture of the threads, though. Nothing that a layer of super glue can't fix :thumbsup: I don't ride rocks really at all, but for those who do I can't imagine what your tires look like.


my tires wore quick too but without any problems like you're describing. The knobs towards the side (but not the furthest out ones) are wearing away really strangely: the material is wearing from the inside of the knob rather than the top, so the knobs have the shape of an upside down L with the bottom of the L pointing towards the center of the tire. Despite being really worn (it's bad enough that people comment on it), the tires grip well even in mud. I'm waiting as long as I can so I can replace them with dirt wizards, or at least the front so I can put a suspension fork on it.


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

Went through this exact same confusion last month when I built up my Krampus. I emailed cane creek directly for directions on what to use with the stock Krampus fork and here is what they said:

"You need the ZS44 - EC44/30 assembly. Part # BAA0719K."

I ordered and it fit perfectly and has worked with no problems. Methinks it would be a lot easier if Surly just bumped up the price of the Krampus frameset by $50 and included this headset...


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

PretendGentleman said:


> ...and speaking of headsets. anybody else have issues with their bottom cup wobbling in the frame? I'm on my second cup and it still has the problem. I tried loc-tite retaining compound and it didn't help.
> 
> my tires wore quick too but without any problems like you're describing. The knobs towards the side (but not the furthest out ones) are wearing away really strangely: the material is wearing from the inside of the knob rather than the top, so the knobs have the shape of an upside down L with the bottom of the L pointing towards the center of the tire. Despite being really worn (it's bad enough that people comment on it), the tires grip well even in mud.


Headset related -- I'm running a King InSet 7 and have had no issues w/ the lower cup loosening.

Tire wear related -- I couldn't see your pix, sasquatch, but I certainly feel your pain. As well as the pain you describe, PretendGentleman. I've got about 425 miles on my knards and the center knobs still look pretty darn good, but the transition knobs are wasted. I do ride in rocks. Lots of rocks. And my tires -- particularly in the transition knob area -- are now comprised of a very significant percentage of tire plugs and super glue. Still love the Krampus, though!


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

Tire wear - I too wanted to see sasquatch's pics. My issue with the knards is that the sidewalls are getting cut up just above the bead. I think it is perhaps from running pressure too low (although I don't feel like I'm going super low - 13ish? And low pressure is where these tires shine). It is like there is a small cut going right around the tire, just above the bead hook on the rim. Surly replaced my original tire on warranty, but same thing is happening on the rear. More of a problem on the rear, this is why I'm thinking it's the pressure. Might have to go with the 27 TPIs next time. Love the bike - this is the only issue I'm having.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

jnroyal said:


> "You need the ZS44 - EC44/30 assembly. Part # BAA0719K."
> 
> I ordered and it fit perfectly and has worked with no problems. Methinks it would be a lot easier if Surly just bumped up the price of the Krampus frameset by $50 and included this headset...


Hm - I cannot find exactly this combination in the Canecreek Website.
...
wait...
I found this:
Universal Cycles -- Cane Creek 40 ZS44/EC44/30 Headset - Fits 1 1/8" Forks

Did you order from here?

I live in germany and it would be better to find a dealer in europe.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

That's the right headset. If I remember correctly, you will also need a crown race to reduce down to 1 1/8 . That is sold separately . Email or call (Bikeman) , they are helpful


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

chunkylover53 said:


> Tire wear - I too wanted to see sasquatch's pics. My issue with the knards is that the sidewalls are getting cut up just above the bead. I think it is perhaps from running pressure too low (although I don't feel like I'm going super low - 13ish? And low pressure is where these tires shine). It is like there is a small cut going right around the tire, just above the bead hook on the rim. Surly replaced my original tire on warranty, but same thing is happening on the rear. More of a problem on the rear, this is why I'm thinking it's the pressure. Might have to go with the 27 TPIs next time. Love the bike - this is the only issue I'm having.


I'm with you, chunkylover53. I'm about 170lbs and started off running about 12lbs in the rear (tubeless). Moved to 14lbs after my first pinch. About 10 punctures/tears/pinches later, and I'm now up to about 16-17lbs in the rear -- even though it felt better at lower pressure. I know that the 27 TPI has a wire bead and fewer threads per inch and weighs more, but can anyone attest to better puncture/pinch resistance when ridden hard in rocky areas? I'm a closeted weight weenie, but I'd definitely add the weight for a significantly tougher tire...


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

PretendGentleman said:


> my tires wore quick too but without any problems like you're describing. The knobs towards the side (but not the furthest out ones) are wearing away really strangely: the material is wearing from the inside of the knob rather than the top, so the knobs have the shape of an upside down L with the bottom of the L pointing towards the center of the tire. Despite being really worn (it's bad enough that people comment on it), the tires grip well even in mud.


Same here with a 27 tpi in the rear.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

rjedoaks said:


> That's the right headset. If I remember correctly, you will also need a crown race to reduce down to 1 1/8 . That is sold separately . Email or call (Bikeman) , they are helpful


But the lower is already 30 mm - so there should be no reducer be needed.
Right?


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

I'm not the expert here, but when I bought the headset , there was an additional crown race needed. You may be right though
Someone else will chime in


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

DerBergschreck said:


> But the lower is already 30 mm - so there should be no reducer be needed.
> Right?


If you buy the correct headset you don't need anything additional. I posted what headset I bought in one of these Krampus threads, but I can't find it quickly and it's not a tidbit of data I keep front and center.

Edit - I found it. I used this headset with no issues:

Orbit Z


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Vik, you run a different headset don't you. I notice your lower is not an EC, that headset comes complete.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

rjedoaks said:


> Vik, you run a different headset don't you. I notice your lower is not an EC, that headset comes complete.












I'm pretty sure I have a FSA Orbit Z on the Krampus and the product photo and my bike photos look the same.

I could be wrong. Once I get a headset installed I don't really think about it too much.


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## rlcanon (Apr 27, 2013)

*Krampus likes the woods...*

Sometimes he likes to rail or maybe explore, other times he likes to lean against a tree while I lounge in a hammock drinking German beer. Go figure...





































If you're bushwhacking in between stints in the hammock drinking German beer, what goes with a boutique seat and seat bag better than a boutique machete?

















185mm arms turning 26-tooth chainring...








Did I hear the Alfine 11 whimper softly?








I'm a lanky spinner who likes to imagine he has "mechanical sympathy", so time will tell.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

The FSA orbit Z works, but because it has no external cup at the bottom the frame comes down a bit and the resulting steering angle will be a bit steeper than the 69,5º surly writes.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

DerBergschreck said:


> The FSA orbit Z works, but because it has no external cup at the bottom the frame comes down a bit and the resulting steering angle will be a bit steeper than the 69,5º surly writes.


How tall is the external cup?

Edit - looks to be ~12mm - so my Krampus is 70 deg HTA or so.

Cane Creek 40 Series EC44/40 Bottom Cup > Components > Headsets and Spacers > Headsets | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop


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## Rattattack (Sep 19, 2013)

RLCanon, great photos of that bad Krampus. Lot's of questions - tall stem, like that - what's that? I will want to bring my bars up even if I get an M frame, I have not been able to get a test ride out here in Berlin, Germany. Yours is an L obviously. Share your Height? And nice looking pouch on the front, is that from maxpedition? Tree friendly slings on your hammock  great stuff! Prost on the Germany beer - that'll depend on where you bought it I guess, Becks, Erdinger, Lübzer, Franziskaner, Andechser, from North to South it can really be different (we'd definitely need a new thread for that )) but always a good choice after a good day riding. Thanks for sharing, ride on!


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

PretendGentleman said:


> I'm excited about the prospect of dirt wizards and easy suspension fork compatibility with my krampus. For the southern piedmont riding where I am 90% of the time rigid is fine, but when I hit the mountains, it's rough rough rough.


I was just about to ask this question. I was for a ride today on some of the rougher part of the trails I ride and towards the end of the season with my Kramus my elbow and wrists are feeling it (older guy). I am the same 90% of my riding is fine but when conditions and trails are ripe I seem to really take it. If there is no suspension fork/tire combo available for next season I may have to resort to considering a Instigator 2.0. I am not going back to skinny tires I love the traction :thumbsup:.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

temporoad said:


> I was just about to ask this question. I was for a ride today on some of the rougher part of the trails I ride and towards the end of the season with my Kramus my elbow and wrists are feeling it (older guy). I am the same 90% of my riding is fine but when conditions and trails are ripe I seem to really take it. If there is no suspension fork/tire combo available for next season I may have to resort to considering a Instigator 2.0. I am not going back to skinny tires I love the traction :thumbsup:.


I've got a RS Reba RLT hanging out in my office - just waiting on some Dirt Wizards to show up.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

A Fox 34 works with a Knard/Rabbit hole combo. I run it on my bike and it works great. It looks tight but I haven't experienced any rubbing.


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## rlcanon (Apr 27, 2013)

Rattattack said:


> - tall stem, like that - what's that?


I'm a freak of nature w/ long arms and legs but a short upper body. 6'2", 36" inseam and sleeve. The frame is a XL and with the riser stem the bars are about 1.5 inches below the saddle.



Rattattack said:


> ...nice looking pouch on the front, is that from maxpedition? Prost on the Germany beer - that'll depend on where you bought it I guess


It's a Maratac, a little lower quality than Maxpedition, but cheaper and it's nice and tall with a removable insulating padded insert that's good for keeping a German beer cold! I get them at countycomm.com. Lots of practical tactical stuff (bags, containers, lights, pocket pry bars, etc., etc.) at a good price. The bag works really well on the front since all the weight is in a narrow column parallel to the steering axis. Even when it's fairly heavy it doesn't impact steering significantly. Three straps per bag and they're off the bike, then the mini-rack supporting the bottom of the front bag comes off with one fastener so it's easy to lose the gear for a fast ride, or even once I'm set up in the woods and feel like playing on the bike unencumbered.

My wife and I will think of you next time we say "Prost!" over a couple of Heffe Weizens! I stayed in Bavaria (Neu Ulm) for several months back in the 80s and I'm familiar with most of that beer list, but lately I'm all about the Weihenstephaner Heffeweissbeir Dunkel. Back in the day a bottle of local Bavarian beer, a couple of brochen, and I was good to go for an afternoon riding along the Donau!

Oh, and I figured that "mechanical sympathy" bit would bite me in the ass... I blew up my Alfine 11 a couple of days ago! I'm back to the stock deraileur setup while my LBS is rebuilding the wheel with a N360 while I wait to see what happens with the warranty claim on the Alfine.


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## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

rim choice

rabbit hole or derby 35mm carbon?


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

I own the Rabbit Holes and love how wide they make the tire but if I were building a wheelset right now I would go for the Velocity Dually. It is still wide at 45mm and tubeless compatible. I have talked to Ray at Derby about possibly making a wider rim in the 40-50mm range and he said he would consider it if enough people ask.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

lancelot said:


> I own the Rabbit Holes and love how wide they make the tire but if I were building a wheelset right now I would go for the Velocity Dually. It is still wide at 45mm and tubeless compatible. I have talked to Ray at Derby about possibly making a wider rim in the 40-50mm range and he said he would consider it if enough people ask.


Until there are actually some user reports from Dually equipped Krampi it's a bit premature to assume those tubeless setups are going to be better than the RH setups.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

True. One can only hope.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

lancelot said:


> True. One can only hope.


+1 - true 

Stan's is apparently making fatbike rims. I haven't heard specifically anything about 29+ rims, but that wouldn't surprise me. Their rims are pretty light, strong and I'd give them the benefit of the doubt on the tubeless side of things.

BTW - one thing we seem to be overlooking is a great tubeless setup is based on the design of the rim, the design of the tire and how it is setup. If you want to run 29+ rubber you have exactly one tire option - at some point two once the Dirt Wizards start rolling, but both using the same tire bead design.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Mmmmmm......Dirt Wizards. I dream about them nightly.


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## speedyuno (Aug 11, 2013)

If your going to build a wheel with the RH rim do you take into account the offset spoke holes to calculate spoke length?


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

as for the wheel build, i put some info in a blog post about my erd measurements....if that helps?
New fangled. | drj0nswanderings


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## speedyuno (Aug 11, 2013)

I was thinking the spokes from the right flange would go to the holes on the right side of the rim and left to the left. How come you used only the left side holes?


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

i built the wheels to make the spokes as equally tensioned side:side as possible....it makes them stronger, i think. the only downside is that the rims are offset built like this, but they seem to cope fine, and i figured if the 60 odd, 80 odd and 100mm rims work built offset, these should be fine.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

I'm building up my Krampus in the next few weeks/months and made an excel sheet with wheights and pricesof all parts. I cannot believe that the stock Krampus is about 30 lbs/13,5 kg because of the cheap an heavy parts Surly uses.

When I calculate weight with Velocity Dually rims with light rimtape (-150 g), Schwalbe SV19 inner tubes (- 360 g) and Ritchey WCS parts (about - 200 g) and some other little improvements I saved about 800 g and still have about 13,3 kg.

The stock surly must have about 14 kg/31 pounds.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

DerBergschreck said:


> I'm building up my Krampus in the next few weeks/months and made an excel sheet with wheights and pricesof all parts. I cannot believe that the stock Krampus is about 30 lbs/13,5 kg because of the cheap an heavy parts Surly uses.
> 
> When I calculate weight with Velocity Dually rims with light rimtape (-150 g), Schwalbe SV19 inner tubes (- 360 g) and Ritchey WCS parts (about - 200 g) and some other little improvements I saved about 800 g and still have about 13,3 kg.
> 
> The stock surly must have about 14 kg/31 pounds.


IMHO you are buying the wrong bike if you are worried about a pound one way or the other.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

dRjOn said:


> i built the wheels to make the spokes as equally tensioned side:side as possible....it makes them stronger, i think. the only downside is that the rims are offset built like this, but they seem to cope fine, and i figured if the 60 odd, 80 odd and 100mm rims work built offset, these should be fine.


with uneven flange spacing, there's a trade-off between a stronger wheel and a centered wheel. With a krampus there's not much room for an uncentered wheel, so it's hard to see how you would deviate much from the conventional centered uneven spoke tension build. If you really want stronger and horizontally stiffer rims, you can build the wheel cross-laced. It's worked great for me, but people remain deeply skeptical of it. e.g., http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/anybody-ever-cross-their-spokes-other-side-rim-799284.html


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

actually, on re reading what i posted, i might be misleading...the rim is centred, not offset, but building with the spokes laced to one side only means you can mitigate for the difference in flange spacing and get left to right as close as damnit spoke tension. My feeling was that this was more important for this wheel than lacing left to left side and right to right side as the surly rims have already proven generally robust when laced all to one side: although the RH is a bigger diameter, i'm sure it will be solid in the long run....i cant remember the exact numbers, but it ends up something like 100% to 90% ish left and right front and rear....pretty good! particularly when using smallish flanged shimano hubs...which i did originally....though the rear xt exploded and was replaced by a hope. if id had my druthers, this bike would have had a shorter rear end, lower bb, 83mm bb shell, maybe, and a 150mm rear end....but making it like this was not surly's aim, and i respect that.

as for cross lacing, well, im sceptical....but im glad its holding up for you.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've done most of my Krampus riding with a camping load and the offset laced Rabbit Hole rims have held up fine. I don't expect any issues even in rocky terrain. I'm not a finesse rider, but I am not a total barbarian either. 

Years of pounding on an offset fatbike have given me lots of faith in offset laced rims. :thumbsup:


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Been awhile since I've posted. Still love this bike. Had a mishap this morning - for whatever reason the brake caliper bracket bolt backed out on my rear caliper. No rear brake all the way down the hill.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Been awhile since I've posted. Still love this bike. Had a mishap this morning - for whatever reason the brake caliper bracket bolt backed out on my rear caliper. No rear brake all the way down the hill.


That happened to me on my Krampus, except it was the front brake. New XT's. Never found the bolt, have a cotter pin in there now.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

hirschmj said:


> That happened to me on my Krampus, except it was the front brake. New XT's. Never found the bolt, have a cotter pin in there now.


My LBS failed to reattach my front brake caliper properly and I failed to verify they did it. Rode a 2 day tour with a barely-there front brake. Happily I didn't die! Luckily for me it was a non-techy ride and I could just let the beast run on the downhills.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

*New Lefty Fork*

I made some changes to the front end since the last pics I posted:





































I'm using a 2010(?) Lefty Speed Carbon DLR set to 80mm of travel and a Project 321 tapered steerer tube adapter. Some things I learned along the way:


If you're using an external cup headset, you need the tapered steerer tube adapter. If you try and use the straight one you can't hammer the crown race in place and then insert the tube, it doesn't fit.
If you're using an internal headset, you need the straight steerer tube adapter, or it won't fit. I'm using external to try and get a little more stack height.
The wheel rubs when you compress the fork if you build it centered with the Rabbit Hole/Knard combo.. You need at least 5mm of offset to get it to run acceptably, and I've probably added another few mm's after the initial test ride. Even then, I can get it to rub if I sprint out of the saddle, but it doesn't rub during normal riding.

I don't think I notice the small amount of offset to the front wheel. In theory it should make it easier to turn one way and harder to turn the other, but so far so good. The front end is steeper than stock with only 80mm of travel, I think the Krampus is designed for 100mm, but so far that's the only con, and it's more than made up for by the fact that the front end has rebound and dampening and stuff. Even with 3" tires, it never felt like I had even a little suspension up front, but now that I have real suspension, the rear feels like it's got an inch or two back there.

The maiden voyage - at night, with a full face helmet because I still had Moab stitches in my head:








Shoutout to Joe at JPaks for the frame bag - it holds a Camelbak bladder and essentials so I don't have to wear a backpack.

And finally, set up with P clamps and growler cages for a bicycle pub crawl that's been in the works for a while. Yes, the suspension is fully functional like this, and yes, the handling is affected SIGNIFICANTLY.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

hirschmj said:


> That happened to me on my Krampus, except it was the front brake. New XT's. Never found the bolt, have a cotter pin in there now.


Bought an $8 hardware kit from my LBS and I'm good to go. Now I know to check these bolts before every ride... don't want that happening again.

Added some Chunky grips too... Hope these are better than the foam Crank Brothers grips...


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Are those beer growlers? 

If so, I approve!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

A week with no Krampus posts? How sad! Time for some gratuitous Krampus-porn....:thumbsup:










If you have any Krampi in action pics post 'em!


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Uhhhh. Yeah. With your pics up, there's just no reason to post my lame trails and scenery. :-(


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

Somewhere on Minnewanka Lakeside...


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

IMO us Krampus owners need to chat it up more.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Gouda Cheez said:


> IMO us Krampus owners need to chat it up more.


+1 - soon we'll be knee deep in ECRs and we won't be so special!


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

vikb said:


> If you have any Krampi in action pics post 'em!


Brushy Creek Trail - Austin 

















Pace Bend - Austin

















My son rockin' it!


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Just realized that all of my pictures are uploaded to my computer.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I need to pull the DT bottle cage and stem bottle cage off my Krampus. It's winter in the PNW so no need to carry a ton of water and I can throw a cage into the frame for short rides if I am not wearing a hydration pack.

If I had some $$$ burning a hole in my pocket I'd get a dropper post for the Krampus. Sadly I don't so she'll stay old skool. 

I've already de-racked the beast. Hopefully I won't need to carry panniers on tour again anytime soon. Soft seat/frame/bar bags are a 100 times better. :thumbsup:


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I would love a dropper, just not sure how much I would use it. Seems like one of those things that would be nice to have but not necessary.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Gouda Cheez said:


> I would love a dropper, just not sure how much I would use it. Seems like one of those things that would be nice to have but not necessary.


On my MTB with a dropper I use it 100 times a ride easily. One of the best investments I made.


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## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

vikb, what tubes are you running? i saw it earlier in the thread somewhere but cannot find now

cheers


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

vikb said:


> On my MTB with a dropper I use it 100 times a ride easily. One of the best investments I made.


Seriously? How far do you ride? 

It might be one of those things where I think I wouldn't use it but then I would end up using it non stop on every ride.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Seriously? How far do you ride?
> 
> It might be one of those things where I think I wouldn't use it but then I would end up using it non stop on every ride.


It's not a matter of how far, but how long and how technical. My rides are typically 3hrs. I have no front shifter and I use the dropper post control on that side with my free hand. Once you have control of your saddle height any time you want with zero hassle you'll use it all the time. At least that's the experience I have had and everyone I ride with and talk to.

5yrs ago I convinced a buddy to buy a then fairly new dropper post for $400 he was deeply skeptical. Our first ride with them was slickrock trail in Moab. At the end he mentioned that not only did he love it, but he used it non-stop.

I've yet to meet anyone who didn't find them useful. In the past they used to blow up fairly regularly, but things have become more refined and more reliable. Of the two posts I own I've had to send the first away for service once. The second is 3yrs old and still going strong with no maintenance - although I am long overdue and should get on that.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

danridesbikes said:


> vikb, what tubes are you running? i saw it earlier in the thread somewhere but cannot find now
> 
> cheers


Nothing special just normal 29er tubes. Whatever I can grab off the shelves at my LBS. Besides some pinch flat issues at the start when I was getting my setup dialled I've only had one legit flat this year with lots of rocky riding.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Noob alert: I didn't know we could run 'regular' 29er tubes. Thought we had to run something special. Learn something every time I visit this site. 

Thanks for your input on the Dropper too.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

So I've ridden my KRAMPUS nonstop since June. Whats it going to feel like getting back on my 26" hardtail?
.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Not good.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

drummerdavid said:


> Whats it going to feel like getting back on my 26" hardtail?
> .


Very small.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

eMcK said:


> This fork should be available soon.
> 
> View attachment 841812
> 
> ...


This other thread says a 100mm Knard loving fork is coming shortly for ~$500. :thumbsup:


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Well that would be icing on the cake.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Not good.





vikb said:


> Very small.


its a great old bike, a 94(?) Litespeed Ocoee. But kind of old school.

Glad I waited around so long for a new one though.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

tubes...ive had good luck with the maxxis freeride 26" tubes and the old wtb 26" 'dh' tubes (there is no way on earth they were dh tubes....but they do fill a 29x3 nicely)


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

I'm waiting on my second pair of tires. I had the 27tpi the first time around and they're nearly totally bald after 8 months of riding. Fast wear for expensive tires, unfortunately. I'm hoping the 120 tpi tire has harder rubber, but not holding my breath. The 27tpi tires burped and I had to run tubes. Some have reported that 120 holds up fine for tubeless, but I ride really hard, so I wouldn't be surprised if I can burp those too. If tubeless works, I'll be saving about a pound per tire, which should be very noticeable. I have a baby coming any day now, so as my fitness temporarily (hopefully) declines, the lighter wheels will help compensate!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

PretendGentleman said:


> I'm hoping the 120 tpi tire has harder rubber, but not holding my breath.


My 120tpi Knards seem pretty soft. I've started tearing Knobs on them - although they have seen some very rocky trails. I wouldn't expect better durability from the higher tpi versions.

That doesn't bother me too much as I typically reach for the softer compound tires when I can. I'd rather have traction than long service life.

So far the Knards are doing okay although I'd say they are on the lower end of what I would call acceptable to me.

I'm cutting them and Surly some slack because I would rather be here on the wild frontier of chubby 29+ tires with a delicate tire like the Knard and a fun bike like the Krampus than not be here and have robust tires on my skinny 29er.

I'm not sure what will happen down the road. If you look at the fatbike world that's a quite few product cycles ahead of 29+ they are still struggling with tires. Either they are robust and terribly heavy or reasonably light and delicate. And pretty much all the fatbike tire options are expensive.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

PretendGentleman said:


> I'm waiting on my second pair of tires. I had the 27tpi the first time around and they're nearly totally bald after 8 months of riding. Fast wear for expensive tires, unfortunately. I'm hoping the 120 tpi tire has harder rubber, but not holding my breath. The 27tpi tires burped and I had to run tubes. Some have reported that 120 holds up fine for tubeless, but I ride really hard, so I wouldn't be surprised if I can burp those too. If tubeless works, I'll be saving about a pound per tire, which should be very noticeable. I have a baby coming any day now, so as my fitness temporarily (hopefully) declines, the lighter wheels will help compensate!


How many miles of riding is on your Knards? Any pictures of the baldness for reference? You're always mentioning how hard you ride, I'm curious to see how yours are holding up and what they look like.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I noticed the same thing - my Knards are wearing (what I would define as) quickly. I've put around 100-125 miles on mine - all rocky trail riding. Not the end of the world... pay to play. It'll be interesting to see what other options for 29+ come out down the road.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

dRjOn said:


> tubes...ive had good luck with the maxxis freeride 26" tubes and the old wtb 26" 'dh' tubes (there is no way on earth they were dh tubes....but they do fill a 29x3 nicely)


26" tubes eh? Shows how much I know.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

PretendGentleman said:


> If tubeless works, I'll be saving about a pound per tire, which should be very noticeable.


Really? A while back, someone posted that they lost almost a 1 lb per tire by switching from the 3" tubes to regular 29er tubes. I can believe that.

If you are running 3" tubes, why don't you just switch to 29er tubes? It works fine.

If you are already running 29er tubes, I don't think you are going to drop a pound by going to tubeless.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

renegade44 said:


> If you are already running 29er tubes, I don't think you are going to drop a pound by going to tubeless.


Continental 29er MTB tubes = 232g each

So the max weight loss would be 464g or ~1lb for both wheels or 0.5lb per wheel.

Of course you need to add in the weight of:

- sealant [say 3 oz/wheel = 0.23lb per wheel]
- additional rim strip material/split tube [75g - 150g/0.17-0.3lb depending what you use]

So the weight savings over 29er tubes will be minimal, but you get the benefit of less rolling resistance, better traction and some puncture protection.


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## Gigantic (Aug 31, 2012)

renegade44 said:


> Really? A while back, someone posted that they lost almost a 1 lb per tire by switching from the 3" tubes to regular 29er tubes. I can believe that.
> 
> If you are running 3" tubes, why don't you just switch to 29er tubes? It works fine.
> 
> If you are already running 29er tubes, I don't think you are going to drop a pound by going to tubeless.


120tpi Knards + tubeless = 1 pound per tire vs 27tpi Knards & Surly 3" tubes.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

renegade44 said:


> If you are running 3" tubes, why don't you just switch to 29er tubes? It works fine.


Because even yo grandma's wheel barrow is tubeless


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I have no details, but looks like another 29 x 3" tire. Not the knobby that some folks are waiting for, but at least it's another option.


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

Took my Krampus to colorado last weekend. Here is some onboard footage from the Chutes trail in Colorado Springs

chutes trail Colorado Springs - YouTube


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

vikb said:


> I have no details, but looks like another 29 x 3" tire. Not the knobby that some folks are waiting for, but at least it's another option.


Great, just what we don't need, another, tighter spaced, minimally treaded, me too tire for west coasters who never see anything but hardpack, brah. 

Bring on the Bud/Nate-esque tires......


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Great, just what we don't need, another, tighter spaced, minimally treaded, me too tire for west coasters who never see anything but hardpack, brah.
> 
> Bring on the Bud/Nate-esque tires......


I'm just happy another tire company figured a 29+ tire was a viable product.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

tim_w_sage said:


> Took my Krampus to colorado last weekend. Here is some onboard footage from the Chutes trail in Colorado Springs
> 
> chutes trail Colorado Springs - YouTube


Nice. Are you going as fast as the vid makes it look?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

vikb said:


> I'm just happy another tire company figured a 29+ tires was a viable product.


Same here. It's just the beginning


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

vikb said:


> I'm just happy another tire company figured a 29+ tire was a viable product.


I hear you, and agree, but allow me to expand on my thought.

You're a company that makes widgets. Another company comes out with an entirely new widget, one that is unlike any others currently available.

You decide it's a good idea to follow suit, so you tool up, from scratch, to do so.

In doing that, you need to decide what manner of widget you'll make.

You can make one that is almost exactly like the current offering, or, since you make them, chances are pretty good that you understand your market, maybe even just a little, and can make something that will be even more desirable than the original, one that simple market research says, is the next step that will likely be made.

Why offer a weaksauce version of the original, one that is not even as fully functional as said original?

Particularly when you could just as easily offer one that is a slight improvement, one that ups the game a bit? One that follows the trend of desirable traits, already laid down by previous widget introductions, IE: modest tread, fast rolling then ramping up to more aggressive, like Endo then Larry, then Nate.

Why not jump the shark a bit and try to dominate the emerging market even if only for a little while? You know, push the market, be a leader, etc.

I don't know, just makes sense to me, but what do I know? Jack squat about tire manufacturing and it's behind the scenes market forces, that's what.

What folks in the end user market are clamoring for is all I know......

Am I making sense? No college degree in marketing or anything, but it just seems so clear to me!


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ On the other hand, where I ride here in Oz is almost always dry hardpack, so the V8 tread would be fine. If it gives 90% of the performance of the Knard at say 40% of the price, which is quite likely IMO, then I'd be a happy camper. The chances of me riding on snow are basically zero...

I'm not saying someone shouldn't make a knobbier tyre, but that there'll be a market for a cheaper alternative if it works okay and doesn't have any major problems.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Why offer a weaksauce version of the original, one that is not even as fully functional as said original?


I have no idea exactly why Vee made that tire, but I can guess:

- they had a tread pattern like that so it was easy to make a 29+ version?
- without mega knobs it will fit into a lot of 29ers including suspension forks [maybe not a 3" tires despite the labelling] and they access a bigger market?
- the Knard is fragile maybe they have a more robust alternative?
- or going the other direction maybe it's lighter?
- they saw the Knard was selling and wanted to make something similar because it's a proven [as much as anything 29+ can be] product niche?

I won't be buying a set. I've got Knards to wear out and hopefully I'll try some Dirt Wizards in the Spring.


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## PeopleForScience (May 15, 2012)

EXTREME!!! You were rippin through there, so fast that your helmet and glove came undone. Well done sir.



tim_w_sage said:


> Took my Krampus to colorado last weekend. Here is some onboard footage from the Chutes trail in Colorado Springs
> 
> chutes trail Colorado Springs - YouTube


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

satanas said:


> ^ On the other hand, where I ride here in Oz is almost always dry hardpack, so the V8 tread would be fine. If it gives 90% of the performance of the Knard at say 40% of the price, which is quite likely IMO, then I'd be a happy camper. The chances of me riding on snow are basically zero...
> 
> I'm not saying someone shouldn't make a knobbier tyre, but that there'll be a market for a cheaper alternative if it works okay and doesn't have any major problems.


My understanding of Vee is that they actually make a large portion of the tires in the industry (the Giant of tire manufacturing as it were). They can probably make almost any tire they want. Here's an article from Singletrack (Singletrack Magazine | New 'Hinged' SE4 Tyre from Bontrager) that says a mold costs roughly 25k. I've actually read somewhere, depending on the mold, it costs something like 10x that number. To justify that amount of money for R&D, testing, etc. you need to be sure that you'll sell enough of said tire to make a profit. Sure, that's basic business but I/we have to keep that in mind when you are at the leading edge of a still new type of bicycle. Think back to the beginning of the 29'er... I still have my IRC tires from back then when they were the only tire easily available for 29'ers. There are actually a lot of tires on the market for any bike that I wonder why people buy, but they do. I suppose it's different terrain and/or riding style.


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

drummerdavid said:


> Nice. Are you going as fast as the vid makes it look?


haha it felt pretty fast. According to my GPS I got up to 30.1 mph. Super fun trail and the krampus handled it like a champ.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Gigantic said:


> 120tpi Knards + tubeless = 1 pound per tire vs 27tpi Knards & Surly 3" tubes.


Ok, you are changing two variables with this comparison. Here is the saving of the tires per Surly's website:
120tpi with Kevlar bead (980g)
27tpi with wire bead (1240g)

That's a 260 gram savings per tire (0.57 lbs) by just changing from a 27 tpi to 120 tpi knard.

For the rest of the savings, you could easily get the same benefit by switching to regular 29er tubes from the 3" tubes as vikb pointed out.


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## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

did i read something about 160mm rear rotors and the krampus having issues?

just about to port my groupset over from another frame


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

danridesbikes said:


> did i read something about 160mm rear rotors and the krampus having issues?
> 
> just about to port my groupset over from another frame


It's what I run. No problems. What have you heard?


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## speedyuno (Aug 11, 2013)

I'm about to lace up some rabbit hole rims to some Paul component hubs as soon I get these kids to bed. The krampus build has begun.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

danridesbikes said:


> did i read something about 160mm rear rotors and the krampus having issues?
> 
> just about to port my groupset over from another frame


No. The Krampus is spec'd with a 160mm rear rotor.


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## RaineMD (Jun 26, 2011)

SO. Everyone. I don't know if this has been answered yet.

So I want to put a rear rack on my Krampus. Only thing is, I don't have rack mounts on my frame. Surly's website says the Krampus is supposed to come stock with them. Except in the photos they provide of the frame and of the complete (I bought mine as a complete, btw), the frame/complete don't have rack mounts at all. Doing a quick google image search gets mixed results. Some frames the rack mounts, some frames don't.

How many of you have rack mounts? How many of you don't? Has anyone asked Surly about this yet?

Thanks.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

OMM racks will work without any rear rack mounts.

My Krampus [bought as a frame/fork] has a rear braze-on. I had a poke around google images and couldn't find a Krampus pic without rear braze-ons.

Can you post a pic of your Krampus' dropouts?


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## RaineMD (Jun 26, 2011)

Vik,

I have the same droupouts in the pic, with the fender eyelets.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

RaineMD said:


> Vik,
> 
> I have the same droupouts in the pic, with the fender eyelets.












My recollection is that the prototypes had some additional braze-ons and the production models just have the one set on the dropouts which you can use for racks/fenders, etc...


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

vikb said:


> My recollection is that the prototypes had some additional braze-ons and the production models just have the one set on the dropouts which you can use for racks/fenders, etc...


This is true, wish they included those braze-ons for production frames.


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## RaineMD (Jun 26, 2011)

K, cool. Thanks ya'll.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

renegade44 said:


> Really? A while back, someone posted that they lost almost a 1 lb per tire by switching from the 3" tubes to regular 29er tubes. I can believe that.
> 
> If you are running 3" tubes, why don't you just switch to 29er tubes? It works fine.
> 
> If you are already running 29er tubes, I don't think you are going to drop a pound by going to tubeless.





sasquatch rides a SS said:


> How many miles of riding is on your Knards? Any pictures of the baldness for reference? You're always mentioning how hard you ride, I'm curious to see how yours are holding up and what they look like.


I switched from 29x2 tubes and 27tpi tire to tubless with 120 tpi. My bike is close to 2lbs lighter, from around 34lbs to around 32lbs.

I would guess I ride about 60 miles per week on average and over 40 weeks that's about 2400 miles. maybe 15% of that is paved connectors. I don't know where my camera is, but the center knobs on old tires were almost gone, maybe 1mm left. mid-side knobs were wearing off from underneath/side as I mentioned a few pages back and others said they experienced too.

The new tires are amazing. knobs feel good of course, but I think the weight savings and more supple casing are really noticeable. I'm very pleased that I switched. On my first ride I did burp the rear tire, so before the next ride I used rubberized gorilla super glue to glue the tire to the split tube. I then rode 20+ miles with no burping...hopefully this holds up.


----------



## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Question for vikb: What pedals are those, and are you happy with them? I'm looking for a good low-profile platform at the moment...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Those are NRG Slabalanche pedals. Not sure if they are still for sale. If I was buying new pedals I'd buy these Spank Spike pedals:

Spank Spike Pedals Review - Pinkbike

There are quite a few low profile grippy platform options these days.


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## johnterry (Oct 30, 2013)

I have a Krampus. I have a 100mm RS Reba RLT fork I am not using. 

Test fitting the Knard on Flows into the Reba resulted in minimal clearance and on RHs there was no clearance. So I gave up on the idea.

Now that the 29 x 2.75" Dirt Wizards are coming out I'm thinking it's worth another shot.

Thing is the Surly site lists the A-C of the Krampus fork as 483mm and says it's suspension corrected for a 120mm fork.

The A-C of the 100mm Reba is something like 505mm. 

I'm not overly worried about the increased fork length, but it just seems like a 120mm fork would be way longer than the stock fork on a Krampus.

Anyways...I'll probably give this a shot when the DW is available. I was dreaming about a FS 29+ on my last Krampus tour and this may be the ideal low cost solution to get me some improved chunk bashing performance.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

johnterry said:


> I have a Krampus. I have a 100mm RS Reba RLT fork I am not using.
> 
> Test fitting the Knard on Flows into the Reba resulted in minimal clearance and on RHs there was no clearance. So I gave up on the idea.
> 
> ...


I'm in the same boat. I have a 100mm Reba RLT I'm not using and both Flow and RH wheelsets.

DW's look to be coming spring 2014 so it's not a project that you can do much about right away.

I think you can create enough clearance with a dremel tool to run Knards on Flows if you feel the need for that Reba before next spring, but I know not everyone is comfy altering their forks.

I'm going to wait myself as winter in the PNWet is gooey and a rigid bike is a nice option along with my FS bike.

The A-C of the Krampus fork and the spec on the Surly site is a bit out of whack. They should change it to suspension corrected for a 100mm fork. With 25mm of sag the Reba and the stock fork will be basically the same length.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

vikb said:


> I'm in the same boat. I have a 100mm Reba RLT I'm not using and both Flow and RH wheelsets.
> 
> DW's look to be coming spring 2014 so it's not a project that you can do much about right away.
> 
> ...


But aren't the surly guys running Fox 34's? I seem to recall this when the Krampus was announced

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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

rjedoaks said:


> But aren't the surly guys running Fox 34's? I seem to recall this when the Krampus was announced
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't see a 120mm Fox 29er fork in the 34mm diameter.

They have a 120mm 32mm diameter 29er fork. with an A-C of 521mm. The 100mm Fox 32mm 29er fork has a A-C of 501mm [virtually the same as the 100mm Reba].

These are 2013 specs, but I don't think they've changed the lengths for 2013 and that's when Surly spec'd the Krampus anyways.

32 FLOAT 29 120 FIT CTD Trail Adjust Bike Fork | FOX


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## chilled_kroete (Jul 17, 2008)

Regarding the rack eyelets: I have some at my dropouts and two braze-ons on the seat stays quite close to the seat tube, so there is no need for additional hardware to install a rack on my Krampus.

Does that mean that I am riding a very early frame or even a prototype? Because the thing is I bought it from the owner of a bike shop who had it built up as one of his personal bike and that guy told me that he is pretty close with the Surly Distributor for Germany.

Thanks for the help!

Edit: 
Here's a pic where you can see the branze-ons.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

vikb said:


> I don't see a 120mm Fox 29er fork in the 34mm diameter.
> 
> They have a 120mm 32mm diameter 29er fork. with an A-C of 521mm. The 100mm Fox 32mm 29er fork has a A-C of 501mm [virtually the same as the 100mm Reba].
> 
> ...


I know the Yeti SB 95 is specced w/a 120 Fox 34
I'm trying to locate the thread which talks about the 34 Fox on a Krampus

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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

rjedoaks said:


> I know the Yeti SB 95 is specced w/a 120 Fox 34
> I'm trying to locate the thread which talks about the 34 Fox on a Krampus
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If the Krampus doesn't come with a stock 120mm Fox 34 fork and you can't buy one aftermarket why would it matter what a few industry types are doing with forks we can't actually get?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

chilled_kroete said:


> Regarding the rack eyelets: I have some at my dropouts and two braze-ons on the seat stays quite close to the seat tube, so there is no need for additional hardware to install a rack on my Krampus.
> 
> Does that mean that I am riding a very early frame or even a prototype? Because the thing is I bought it from the owner of a bike shop who had it built up as one of his personal bike and that guy told me that he is pretty close with the Surly Distributor for Germany.
> 
> ...












This is the pre-production yoke.



















Production yoke.










I can't make out from your photo which one you have.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

vikb said:


> If the Krampus doesn't come with a stock 120mm Fox 34 fork and you can't buy one aftermarket why would it matter what a few industry types are doing with forks we can actually get?


I was making a point on the 120 as opposed to 100 height that you brought up.

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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

"I'm not overly worried about the increased fork length, but it just seems like a 120mm fork would be way longer than the stock fork on a Krampus."

An unsagged, 120mm Rock Shox fork will definitely be longer than the stock fork. But a sagged 120mm Fox fork is pretty close to the length of the stock Krampus fork. 

I like Vik's advice for you: run the Flows and the Reba until the Dirt Wizard comes out.


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## chilled_kroete (Jul 17, 2008)

vikb said:


> ] I can't make out from your photo which one you have.


Thanks a lot, Vik! :thumbsup:
I have the yoke shown in the upper pics. Very interesting, now I am tempted to ask when and how my dealer got his (now mine) frame. :devil:


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

vikb said:


> Those are NRG Slabalanche pedals.


Thanks! The Spank Spikes look decent, but I'd really prefer something with a slotted body so it's possible to run a fixie foot strap, hence my interest in the other ones...


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## chilled_kroete (Jul 17, 2008)

If you are interested: I did some more research and it seems like I bought the bike that was used for this review: Surly Krampus: On Test
Everything is absolutely the same, I even have the green nipples at the end of the brake cables.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

PretendGentleman said:


> If tubeless works, I'll be saving about a pound per tire, which should be very noticeable.





PretendGentleman said:


> I switched from 29x2 tubes and 27tpi tire to tubless with 120 tpi. My bike is close to 2lbs lighter, from around 34lbs to around 32lbs.


By spec weights, changing from 27 tpi to 120 tpi will save you 1.14 lbs (.57 lbs per tire). That means in theory you are getting .86 lbs from tubeless (.4 lbs per tire).

Of course, you say "close to 2 lbs", so the tubeless savings might be even less. And knard tires have a reported wide actual weight range. So you could have switched from an heavier range 27 tpi tire to a lighter range 120 tpi tire, and got the "close to 2 lbs" weight savings almost entirely from just the tires.

Bottom line, until you do a switch involving only 1 variable (tubeless vs tubed), your claims are less than scientific. And claiming that tubeless saves a pound per tire is entirely misleading, as you admitted yourself that you also changed to a lighter tire.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

renegade44 said:


> By spec weights, changing from 27 tpi to 120 tpi will save you 1.14 lbs (.57 lbs per tire). That means in theory you are getting .86 lbs from tubeless (.4 lbs per tire).
> 
> Of course, you say "close to 2 lbs", so the tubeless savings might be even less. And knard tires have a reported wide actual weight range. So you could have switched from an heavier range 27 tpi tire to a lighter range 120 tpi tire, and got the "close to 2 lbs" weight savings almost entirely from just the tires.
> 
> Bottom line, until you do a switch involving only 1 variable (tubeless vs tubed), your claims are less than scientific. And claiming that tubeless saves a pound per tire is entirely misleading, as you admitted yourself that you also changed to a lighter tire.


around a pound per tire is a totally reasonable claim. if tubeless didn't work and I put in a 29er tube the savings would be around half a pound per tire. How is this difficult to understand? Were we making bets or fulfilling a NSA grant here? The first quote is in a post talking about the tires too, and taking it as a quote about tubeless alone is misleading (i.e., taking quotes out of context).

And just to go there, there's nothing wrong with changing multiple variables at once. It does not prevent you from modelling causal effects. For a common example, check out multi-variate regressions. All you need is to claim exogeneity, which is obvious here. My claims weren't intended to be scientific, but in theory they could be useful as data; does the extent of approximation I made obscure smaller underlying variations, perhaps. Ultimately, I'm not worried enough about the precision of component weights to try to model the true dimensions of the underlying population of knards.

But really, why get your panties in such a wad? Did you make the switch only to find that my approximation of weight savings didn't match your precise expectations about what your experience would be?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

satanas said:


> Thanks! The Spank Spikes look decent, but I'd really prefer something with a slotted body so it's possible to run a fixie foot strap, hence my interest in the other ones...


They seem to still be selling the NRG pedals: NRG Enterprises

You might have to get a Canadian LBS to order them in for you.


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## speedyuno (Aug 11, 2013)

FYI. A Paul components crank with a Phil wood 110.5mm bb won't fit on a krampus. I installed the bb last night and the crank arm was barely touching the weld where the yoke and chainstay cone together. Plenty of clearance at the pedals, but the arms themselves won't clear. Looks like the crosscheck is about to get a crank upgrade...


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

I read quite a few posts, but didn't get through all of them......

Does anyone commute on a Krampus?? Could it be used as a fun city bike (albeit slow) to commute to work 5 miles each way.....then on the weekends I can hit the trails?? how is the rolling resistance of the 3" tires?? 

Thanks


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

digthemlows said:


> I read quite a few posts, but didn't get through all of them......
> 
> Does anyone commute on a Krampus?? Could it be used as a fun city bike (albeit slow) to commute to work 5 miles each way.....then on the weekends I can hit the trails?? how is the rolling resistance of the 3" tires??
> 
> Thanks


You could commute on it, but I can't imagine the Knards lasting long if you ride it religiously on the pavement.

I think some company (can't remember which) is releasing a 29x3 tire that looks to be more street friendly. It's a few pages back - Vik posted info about it.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Figured I would share since I rarely take pics of the bike. At the top of La Costa Reserve in North County San Diego this morning.


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## dovebiker (Jul 22, 2013)

Rolling resistance is good - I can wind my my Knards up to 40kph on tarmac when the mood takes me. Problem is wear on tarmac / hard surfaces - they'd probably only last 6 months.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

With wet winter weather upon us I took the opportunity to pull the extra bottle cages [stem and downtube] off my Krampus and add some minimal fenders. I probably won't be doing any touring until March, but if I do hauling extra water won't be necessary. I can just open my mouth as I ride and get fully rehydrated! 










Although I ride my FS MTB year round when the trails get really sloppy it just makes me feel bad thrashing a $5K bike with lots of wear items. That's when having a rigid Rohloff equipped bike makes a lot of sense.

I'm heading out this afternoon on the Krampus to hunt down a connector trail I know exists, but is very hard to find in the forest. I'll GPS it for future reference. With lots of exploring , hike-a-bike and bushwacking the Krampus is a great choice. :thumbsup:










Got a Surly calendar this week. No surprise it's gonna be September 2013 in my office for a couple years!


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

vikb said:


> With wet winter weather upon us I took the opportunity to pull the extra bottle cages [stem and downtube] off my Krampus and add some minimal fenders. I probably won't be doing any touring until March, but if I do hauling extra water won't be necessary. I can just open my mouth as I ride and get fully rehydrated!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking good/fenders
I tried for one of those calendars but was way late for the giveaway

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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

rjedoaks said:


> Looking good/fenders
> I tried for one of those calendars but was way late for the giveaway
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I could probably part with the other 11 months.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

vikb said:


> I could probably part with the other 11 months.


That's ok Vik, hang onto it, you may need a change of scenery . Thanks

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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

vikb said:


> I could probably part with the other 11 months.


Is that you on the calendar? 

I really dig how they flares look... just not sure they would do me much good where I'm at.


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

dovebiker said:


> Rolling resistance is good - I can wind my my Knards up to 40kph on tarmac when the mood takes me. Problem is wear on tarmac / hard surfaces - they'd probably only last 6 months.


Ok, pulled the trigger, should have a commuter/funbike here within the week....."must haves/accessories" advice would be appreciated!! Have some mudguards that will work already.....will add my Brooks Saddle and some wider bars as soon as it arrives too.......otherwise, looks like the stock build is good enough.....may upgrade the brakes someday, but for now, it'll do fine!! XL on the way!!!


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

btw, am I right in the stock build is right around 30lbs for an XL ??? Read that somewhere but can't find it again


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2013)

digthemlows said:


> I read quite a few posts, but didn't get through all of them......
> 
> Does anyone commute on a Krampus?? Could it be used as a fun city bike (albeit slow) to commute to work 5 miles each way.....then on the weekends I can hit the trails?? how is the rolling resistance of the 3" tires??
> 
> Thanks


I wouldn't normally worry about tire wear but the Krampus wears pricy tires. I run soft racing knobs on my 29er and burn through a set a year without much effort, but they cost less than Knards, a lot less. I would consider buying a second set of wheels and keep a pavement friendly wheelset handy. I used to have spare wheelsets for my road bike (one with training tires and one with racing tires) and for my cross bike (same deal). I have a spare wheelset for my 29er and I'm planning on mounting a pair of touring tires on the spare for touring on the weekends.


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## Vincentg (Sep 24, 2008)

I thank ale50ale for pushing the envelope and trying the 3013 Lefty with 47mm rims and knards. I'm wanting to follow his lead. Anybody else try the new lefty with 29+ successfully or not? If so, what rims and which fork, which travel?


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

Looks like Krampus season is coming to an end around here:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Did some 'xploring today and found an elusive connector trail I've been wanting to lock down with a GPS track. :thumbsup:










Funny thing is everytime I find one trail I get the scent of another I want to check out and come home with just as much on my *To Do List* as when I left. 










Good thing I don't mind going back out for ride after ride. 










BTW - Krampus fits fine on a standard Yakima hitch tray style rack.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Wow. Great pics. You live in a beautiful area.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

digthemlows said:


> btw, am I right in the stock build is right around 30lbs for an XL ??? Read that somewhere but can't find it again


that sounds quite low to me. with a front derailleur and shifter, but otherwise similar mine was about 34 and it's a small.

I also highly recommend ditching the 27tpi tires and getting the 120 tpi. It's night and day. I'm literally running about 5psi less with the same pinch flat resistance. All I can think is that the 27 tpi expands when you hit bumps and the pressure increases less, leading to a spring rate that increases at a decreasing rate. Regardless of weight savings, the ride quality is so much better with 120 tpi.


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## ripley (Jan 28, 2005)

my Large, which is stock, except for going tubeless is 32#.


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## jan_nikolajsen (Oct 28, 2011)

Since we are talking about weight: Size large, with pedals, bottle cages and Revelate Tangle Bag: 30.2 lbs.

Build specs to get that weight:
Large frame and fork
DT 350 hubs
DT Comp spokes
Alloy nipples
Velocity Dually rims
Deore level skewers
Stan's tape and fluid, tubeless
Knard 120tpi
Stock cassette
Stock chain
9 sp XTR RD
1970's Suntour friction thumb shifter
XT double crank
Raceface 30T narrow/wide chainring
Avid BB7 calipers
Avid Fr-5 brake levers
Stock Avid rotors (180 fr/160 rear)
SMAC platform pedals
Stock headset
Stock stem
Jones Loop bar
Ergon grips
Bar tape
Thomson Elite seatpost
WTB Laser Ti saddle
Salso TI bottle cages
Revelate Tangle Bag size M


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

tim_w_sage said:


> haha it felt pretty fast. According to my GPS I got up to 30.1 mph. Super fun trail and the krampus handled it like a champ.


Looked like 50 mph. Fun stuff! Ride on.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

ripley said:


> my Large, which is stock, except for going tubeless is 32#.


That sounds realistic.
The cheapest way to make a stock Krampus about one pound lighter is to use Schwalbe SV19 inner tubes which are about 220 g each. Original Surly "toob" are over 400 g each:eekster:

I will build up a custom Krampus during the next months and this will be about 29,8 pounds and will cost approx. $ 500,- more than the stock Krampus which is OK for me.


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## santacruzer (Nov 30, 2004)

I've finally built my Krampus up as a single speed, using some light parts left over from my SS bike and set up tubeless it came in at 25.5 lbs. One ride so far on a flat sandy river bottom trail and it was a blast, even setting a PR and KOM on one 4 mile long section. The Krampus is as fun as I thought it would be but it's actually faster than I thought This should be a fun fall!


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

jan_nikolajsen said:


> Since we are talking about weight: Size large, with pedals, bottle cages and Revelate Tangle Bag: 30.2 lbs.
> 
> Build specs to get that weight:
> Large frame and fork
> ...


Hello, any idea if the med. Revelate Tangle would fit a large Krampus using two 24 oz water bottles? Is that what you are running?
Also if missed it, have you posted a pic? Thanks

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## Bevalhalla (Jan 20, 2012)

i have a large tangle on my XL Krampus and bottles fit.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

post a pic if you can. thanks


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## Bevalhalla (Jan 20, 2012)

not mine but you get the point: revelate tangle large on xl krampus | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

fwiw i have a medium tangle and have used it on a medium krampus. you could get a bottle in the downtube bottle cage but it interferes with the bag a little. no bueno on the seat tube cage. the large frame is (ta da!) a bit bigger so it might work...


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Thanks, I figured the setup would be tight

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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

unmatched pedals, and I don't think I like the green bars.......rode around the neighborhood and it's soooo much fun, it bunnyhops and jumps around like a big ol BMX bike......hitting the trails tomorrow!!

oh and 32.5lbs as it sits........stock except I put candy components bars on...pedals are VP59s ... gonna get a shorter stem and a better post and that's probably all I need to do to it......again, so much fun!!









next to my Knolly....


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

Updated shot of my SS Krampus. Swapped a bigger sprocket in up front.


photo by tim_w_sage, on Flickr


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

When it comes to tubeless there appears to be some debate on the amount of weight savings. I didn't weigh my bike but there is no question in my mind that the bike *feels* amazing after the conversion. I did not like riding these tires with tubes at all.


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## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

Ok Tim. That's my favorite build. 25lbs?


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## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

Never in a million years 25lbs

Do we have any krampus on scale pics?


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

edge said:


> Ok Tim. That's my favorite build. 25lbs?


Haha. Thanks. No idea on the weight, I will check it next week. Never really worried about it, i don't understand the obsession with weight on a steel bike.


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## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

tim_w_sage said:


> Haha. Thanks. No idea on the weight, I will check it next week. Never really worried about it, i don't understand the obsession with weight on a steel bike.


I had a heavy surly instigator that was mostly fun on the down. Now I have a light monocog flight that is mostly fun on the up.. Thinking the krampus could be their bastard.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

danridesbikes said:


> Never in a million years 25lbs
> 
> Do we have any krampus on scale pics?












Medium. Carbon bars and post. Slx brakes. Hope ss evo 2 rear hub, hope evo 2 front, sapim db spokes, aluminum dt 12 mm nipples. Kmc cool chain light, knards, rabbit holes, deore cranks, kcnc stem cap and chaining bolts, niner aluminum cog, cane creek 40 series headset ashima light rotors. 








This is tubed. Lost approx 8 more ounces after tubeless. I don't use foam or 10 roles of duct tape! Stans wide tape, 1 layer or metallic tape for rim strips and 2 ounces stans each tire.

That brings it down to the 25 lb range. Not 25 lb perfect! Plus this is ss anyway. Geared? That will be much harder! Lighter cranks and seat, and lighter hubs like some American Classics would do it with sram xx setup maybe?

To say I was geeked when I weighed it is an understatement. It weighs a hair more than my salsa vaya, more than my: niner rip 9, 650b santa cruz nickel, and more than my salsa beargrease. My only lighter bikes are my specialized sirrus road bike and my karate monkey ss at ~23 lbs.

I am converting to 1x11 xx1 soon. I'll weigh it with that setup. After that a fox fork too. I'll weigh all that together too for you.


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## chilled_kroete (Jul 17, 2008)

This week I decided to benefit of the rack mounts on my frame, here's the result:






:thumbsup:


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

chilled_kroete said:


> This week I decided to benefit of the rack mounts on my frame, here's the result:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A Krampus is a trailbike and not a commuter:skep:


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

DerBergschreck said:


> A Krampus is a trailbike and not a commuter:skep:


Depends on your commute! I sometimes use my krampus to get to work. Typical ride goes something like this:
1. Ride 4 miles of road to the trailhead
2. Meet up with early morning ride crew for a 9 mile loop of singletrack
3. Ride 2 more miles of road to work.

-Repeat in reverse for ride home, except meetup with the post-ride folks for an even longer singletrack loop. If I'm motivated and ride solo, I can get the road portion down to ~4 miles one way.


Double Dirt Commute - Photo 206 by jon_baler, on Flickr


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## chilled_kroete (Jul 17, 2008)

DerBergschreck said:


> A Krampus is a trailbike and not a commuter:skep:


Bike with a rack =! commuter.

With that rack I am able to enjoy riding trails without a backpack, but I still have everything necessary with me. I put rain gear, tools etc. into a drybag and fix it onto the rack. The drybag also works as some kind of rear fender.





:cornut:

And not to forget: The rack gives me some great options for bikepacking/offroad touring with the Krampus. 

I don't think you do this bike justice by just seeing it as a trailbike. It's so versatile and so much fun, it can be everything you want it to be. :thumbsup:


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## BacDoc (May 31, 2011)

renegade44 said:


> Depends on your commute! I sometimes use my krampus to get to work. Typical ride goes something like this:
> 1. Ride 4 miles of road to the trailhead
> 2. Meet up with early morning ride crew for a 9 mile loop of singletrack
> 3. Ride 2 more miles of road to work.
> ...


Now that is a "commute" that deserves a Krampus!


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## santacruzer (Nov 30, 2004)

danridesbikes said:


> Never in a million years 25lbs
> 
> Do we have any krampus on scale pics?


Here's my SS Krampus
Medium Frame
XX1 Cranks with spiderless Wolftooth 34 tooth chainring
Ritchey WCS stem
FSA carbon bars
Ritchey grips
XTR brakes
FSA carbon post
XTR pedals 
Old White Industries carbon fork
Rabbit holes set up tubeless

So far its about 10 smiles per mile


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## fatlip11 (Aug 24, 2011)

S i c k !


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Is it me... or do the Knards not do too well when cornering in loose dirt? On yesterday's ride I had them give out on me a few times - they had more pressure in them than normal (16) but I laid the bike out twice in loose dirt/gravel. Unusual.


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## EndoRando (Sep 21, 2004)

*I'm scratching my head.....*

...as to why there's a threaded hole under the bottom bracket? It's a necessity on my Karate Monkey for securing the guide for cables, since it has downtube routing. But this bike has top tube routing, so why would they bother? I was cringing on my ride today after looking below. It's a good thing I had the forethought to thread in a bolt with some loctite, just hoping it seals well enough as I know I'll be going through plenty of water. Does your frame have a drilled BB?


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Please note that it's always a good idea to have a drain hole under the BB shell. Whatever you do, if it rains water WILL get in via the seatpost, or elsewhere if the BB is submerged. If there's a drain hole it will escape and things will dry out. If not, things will rust.


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Is it me... or do the Knards not do too well when cornering in loose dirt? On yesterday's ride I had them give out on me a few times - they had more pressure in them than normal (16) but I laid the bike out twice in loose dirt/gravel. Unusual.


I haven't noticed this at all. Obviously they have less traction in loose than hardpack than other tires, but I've found them to have better traction that a regularly sized 29er tire in all the conditions I've ridden them in.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Schmucker said:


> I haven't noticed this at all. Obviously they have less traction in loose than hardpack than other tires, but I've found them to have better traction that a regularly sized 29er tire in all the conditions I've ridden them in.


I could just be unlucky. I, like you, have noticed the kick ass traction in every other condition.


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

Loose dirt can act like little marbles. No tire works really well riding on marbles.


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Is it me... or do the Knards not do too well when cornering in loose dirt? On yesterday's ride I had them give out on me a few times - they had more pressure in them than normal (16) but I laid the bike out twice in loose dirt/gravel. Unusual.


They corner very poorly in anything loose, especially when they start to wear. Mine lost the second row of side knobs pretty early on, and they've been sketchy ever since. Looking forward to the Dirt Wizard.


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## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

i ordered the wrong size moots post, hence the Thomson :madman:

mango inset 7 en-route :thumbsup:


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

Hey guys, I have a question for you, or I'm looking for advice.

I'm looking for a bike that's an alternative to my high-tech trail bike, which is a cannondale rush, 650b'ed with a lefty, blah blah blah etc. Previously I had a scott scale 29er, which I really liked as it was like a friggin' rocketship, but sold because I liked the added traction and butt-friendliness of a full suspension bike.

With a newborn in my life, I've sold off the DH bike and would love to replace it with another bike that's fun to ride on New England trails, that can double duty as a bike path cruiser with the wife and kid in tow, that might offer up a different feel and fun/playful kind of ride on the same trails that the rush eats up, and maybe can even suffer through the occasional slog to work, though I have a road bike that would be better for that.

I picked up a Surly pugsley for a really nice price, and I thought that it would be a great fit, but I found that the thing was a pig in stock format, and I would have to invest a lot of money in new wheels, tires, tubes, etc. to get it where I wanted, so I sold it for a profit. I liked the way that it rode, it was a more casual ride than my rush, much slower, but fun in its own way...but it just sucked on the short steep climbs that plague the trails around boston.

Anyways, now I'm considering the Krampus, as it'll have the added rollover of the 29er wheels, which I dig, and is a rigid, which will be an alternative to the full squish, but adds the fat tires in the mix. Do you think it's a decent fit for what I want to do with it? I don't mind a little added weight, but the puglsey was just a tank.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sandwich said:


> Anyways, now I'm considering the Krampus, as it'll have the added rollover of the 29er wheels, which I dig, and is a rigid, which will be an alternative to the full squish, but adds the fat tires in the mix. Do you think it's a decent fit for what I want to do with it? I don't mind a little added weight, but the puglsey was just a tank.


I have a Pug and a Krampus. The Krampus is a lot less tank like than the Pugs, but it remains a rigid bike. If you can make peace with that aspect it will be fun, playful and a different ride than your FS bike.


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

spent a bit of time on the trails over the weekend and what a fun bike, i've been on full suspension AM for a couple of years so I was reminded of "rigid" a few times and my elbows/shoulders are feeling it, but what a blast........it truly is a big giant BMX bike to me..........then today I did my 8 mile on the pavement commute to work and again, it's just a fun bike..........I truly don't think this bike is "intended" for anything other than fun........it jumps quite well, bounces through rock gardens, climbs really well, and is FUN! I'm happy thus far for sure!!


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

threw my trusty old Brooks saddle on, matched the pedals, and waiting for gorilla tape to arrive so I can covert to tubeless........ Still loving the geo on this bike, it's so fun and responsive for such a beast of a bike.....need to get a shorter stem too......then it'll be golden!!


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## peippo (Feb 3, 2008)

Been riding my Krampus for a few months now, haven't even touched the Moonlander, and actually ended up taking my Mojo HD apart for the winter. I didn't expect this bike to be so much fun, and at times it's hard to believe it's actually fully rigid. The tires are a nice match of rolling resistance & suspension/traction. Riding it with a 780mm handlebar and 50mm stem, and it feels great wrestling it around the trails :thumbsup:

Does anyone have experience with the 29" Ice Spiker Pro studded tires on the Rabbit Hole rims?


----------



## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

peippo said:


> Does anyone have experience with the 29" Ice Spiker Pro studded tires on the Rabbit Hole rims?


I'm using them currently, they fit nicely - once you've gotten past the struggle to get them on, its a little bit of a tight fit getting the bead over the rim.


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## dovebiker (Jul 22, 2013)

Rode my custom 29er plus (based on Krampus geo) for a 4 hour MTB enduro - course was lots of woodland singletrack with loose, peaty soil, lots of roots as well as the occasional muddy patch. I was able to keep-up with the full-sus 29ers on the faster sections and yet was able to climb the steep ramps that had them scrabbling for traction. There was a straight section with a 45 degree bank to one side - I could simply ride along the bank to get past slower riders, people following couldn't hold the line.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

danridesbikes said:


> i ordered the wrong size moots post, hence the Thomson :madman:
> 
> mango inset 7 en-route :thumbsup:


great pics!

currently building up a krampus and have a few questions.

running a 32 up front?

any tyre rub in the lowest gear?

have you considered the orange rim strips? might really pop with the mango hubs.

planning on going tubeless?

surly recommends a bottom EC headset, wondering why you went with zero stack. not being critical/judging, just curious because that's actually something i was considering doing to steepen the hta a bit. i generally prefer frames with a steep hta, and though less than a degree it may be apparent. especially with the larger tyres. you mentioned you have an I7 (EC) on the way so if you wouldn't mind reporting back any noticeable difference between the two that be great!

may seem like "the princess and the pea" but i've altered the hta by a degree or less and it made the bike just "work". had it go the other way too.... :lol:

and be sure to post up some pics with the mango I7 and moots. :thumbsup:


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

I need the Dirt Wizard now :-(


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## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

its a 28t ring, not noticed any rub

i had the zero stack sat doing nothing so threw it on to get it built

i might go tubeless but not yet, ive not seen the orange rim strips in the flesh, but think it might be over doing it


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## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

Steve5S said:


> I need the Dirt Wizard now :-(


why? i rode the wettest ride ever a couple of days ago, forest/fire road/dirt pack

never once did i feel like i had no traction, and i was pushing it for 2 hours


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

danridesbikes said:


> why? i rode the wettest ride ever a couple of days ago, forest/fire road/dirt pack
> 
> never once did i feel like i had no traction, and i was pushing it for 2 hours


My local trails are clay and the knards clogg real bad so much that it will rub the paint off the rear yolk.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Steve5S said:


> My local trails are clay and the knards clogg real bad so much that it will rub the paint off the rear yolk.


that's surprising to me. our trails have a lot of clay and my knards shed mud pretty well.


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## CycleMonkey (Nov 20, 2013)

We built up this belt drive/Rohloff Krampus for a customer who's going to use it to commute in Siberia. Based on our testing on the Knards, we expect them to grip fine on the snow/ice there as long as the PSI is low enough.

The Monkey Lab: Surly Krampus with a Rohloff and belt drive


----------



## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Grip Studs™ Screw-In Tire Studs | Traction in Ice, Snow and Dirt | HOME

Game changer for sure. I studded my Pugsley last year, and will stud the Knards on my Krampus soon!
Works awesome!


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

CycleMonkey said:


> We built up this belt drive/Rohloff Krampus for a customer who's going to use it to commute in Siberia. Based on our testing on the Knards, we expect them to grip fine on the snow/ice there as long as the PSI is low enough.
> 
> The Monkey Lab: Surly Krampus with a Rohloff and belt drive


wow.... awesome build

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## CycleMonkey (Nov 20, 2013)

@digthemlows: Thanks! This was a fun one to dream up and put together. Looking forward to seeing how it's working for our customer in Siberia.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Via BikesDirect's Facebook page...










Motobecane will be offering 29+ bikes Spring 2014 with the tires pictured above. No details on build specs, geometry or any other details yet...

I'd be curious to see some specs on these tires.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

Cool! Looking forward to a choice of tires.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Via BikesDirect's Facebook page...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


want.


----------



## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I hope it is at least somewhat decent, though.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

i'm willing to guinea pig it.


----------



## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Yep, works like a charm too.


I'm going to do the same think. Does your Krampus have your special clamps or the original lefty clamps?
From my pre measurements, it look like I will have to offset the wheel a few sixteenths of an inch.


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

Very interesting


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## octavius (Sep 26, 2008)

a small point about the knard for others with 'mud concerns'.

i finally gave way to temptation (well birthday money) and got a knard to run on the front of my jones (on a p-35) rim.

i was initially certain i'd hate it and the dirt wizard would be the tyre i needed. however, i have nothing but good things to say about the knard so far (3 months and counting). i was nervous about how the fairly shallow thread/shoulder would work in the scottish forest/moorland/mountain mud but the larger volume/lower pressure etc is just fantastic. totally surprised but very impressed.

i still think ill get a dirt wizard but the knard is far more capable in the conditions i ride than i thought it ever would be. and the extra float is great as well on my big days out - its my first experience of anything wider than 2.4" on any wheel size...


----------



## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

Does anyone have the weight of a Krampus XL frame? I have one, but my scales max weight is only 2.000 g

I got my wheelset with Velocity Dually 45c rims today. They and the Knards seem to be made for each other. I could mount the Knards with my hands only but they are not too loose once they sit on the rim.

In the rear wheel I took a Schwalbe 29" inner Tube No. 19 with 220 g. In they front I will test its lighter brother, the 19a with only 150 g. We will see how it works. Has somebody here experiences with these superlight inner tubes?


----------



## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Motobecane will be offering 29+ bikes Spring 2014 with the tires pictured above. No details on build specs, geometry or any other details yet...
> 
> I'd be curious to see some specs on these tires.


Man, gotta hand it to the Bikes Direct folks. They're nothing if not opportunistic.

That said, what better way to create more demand for more 29+ tires than have lots more people riding 29+ ready bikes. Win/win...


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I hope it is at least somewhat decent, though.


What kind of "somewhat decent" are you expecting at price points of $399 (assuming the SS) and $599 (assuming geared) respectively?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

GSJ1973 said:


> What kind of "somewhat decent" are you expecting at price points of $399 (assuming the SS) and $599 (assuming geared) respectively?


I was referring to the tires. There was a rumor going around they'd be selling tires separately, at least that's what I had heard awhile ago. Or at least you can get those tires somewhere.


----------



## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I was referring to the tires. There was a rumor going around they'd be selling tires separately, at least that's what I had heard awhile ago. Or at least you can get those tires somewhere.


I'm with you... I'll have my own bike by then... I won't need or want anything but the tire. Strange that a manufacturer would go through all the money and effort to have a tire made and not sell it to the public. That seems a little odd if they don't sell it.


----------



## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I was referring to the tires. There was a rumor going around they'd be selling tires separately, at least that's what I had heard awhile ago. Or at least you can get those tires somewhere.


Ah. Yeah likely a steel bead and 1200 grams at that price point. If they were smart they would do a 900 gram folding and sell it aftermarket.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

1 Speed said:


> That seems a little odd if they don't sell it.


So far the issue with speciality tires isn't a lack of desire to sell them. It's that production of tires is first diverted to equipping complete bikes before any are sold a la carte. If production of bikes and tires isn't in the right ratio you don't get many spare tires to sell. That's why we've seen lots of tire shortages and delays in the speciality tire end of things.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Happy Turkey Day, Krampus owners.


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## JYB (Nov 12, 2011)

Right back at ya' Gouda!


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

anyone built up one with green king hubs/accouterments?


----------



## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

I built up a lilac one with purple components. ;-)


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

anyone built up one with green king hubs/accouterments?


----------



## tdhood (Apr 1, 2005)

Different Krampus... looks very Surly, though.










Krampus: Saint Nicholas' Dark Companion - In Focus - The Atlantic


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## Just Zach (Mar 11, 2011)

I've had this for a while but stopped riding it for a few months. Then I converted it to single speed and fell in love. Next was the Lefty. I extended the travel to 110mm which made it feel perfect on there. I'm sure someone else has tried it but I converted to tubeless too by using full width Gorilla tape, two wraps around. The bead seats really well, at 15psi no burping at all.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

Just Zach said:


> Then I converted it to single speed and fell in love.


I've only ever ridden mine SS (and tubeless). You ended up in the right place


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

Just Zach said:


> Next was the Lefty. I extended the travel to 110mm which made it feel perfect on there.


Can you post a side view so I can get an idea of the head angle at 110mm? I've got my lefty at 80 and it's twitchier, but still fun, thinking about finding a lefty max and bumping it up.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Very Nice!

How far did you end up offsetting the front wheel to clear the leg?
And, what are the prefered tires (tpi) for tubeless?

I'm using a Lefty too....looking forward to building mine up for winter riding.


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## Bevalhalla (Jan 20, 2012)

What gearing do you guys like for SS?


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## speedyuno (Aug 11, 2013)

I'm running 34x20 in an area with relatively short but steep climbs. (Central Arkansas)


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

Bevalhalla -- I'm running 32x20 in Austin, TX, which isn't far off from what I run on a "regular" 29er SS around here. We've got lots of technical ups and downs.

yogiprophet -- I'm don't think you'll find a consensus on preferred TPI for tubeless in this thread or any other. You'll see proponents and opponents of each just about equally. I've been running 120s tubeless since day one, and while they set up just fine and feel good, they've been *really* fragile hammering Austin's rocky stuff. Search for "Busted a Knard." Many others will tell you they've never had a problem... On the other hand I've heard from reliable sources that the 27 tpi has a burlier sidewall/tread, but others say it's more prone to burping, and it's definitely a good deal heavier.


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## Just Zach (Mar 11, 2011)

hirschmj said:


> Can you post a side view so I can get an idea of the head angle at 110mm? I've got my lefty at 80 and it's twitchier, but still fun, thinking about finding a lefty max and bumping it up.


Here's a picture. An angle finder on the fork leg says 68 degrees.





yogiprophet said:


> Very Nice!
> 
> How far did you end up offsetting the front wheel to clear the leg?
> And, what are the prefered tires (tpi) for tubeless?
> ...


I don't have an exact measurement but I doubt it's more than 2mm offset. I've been watching my fork leg too and there's no signs of rubbing. Nothing noticeable while riding either.

I'm running the 120tpi tires. Just finished riding and again no burping or air loss whatsoever.



Bevalhalla said:


> What gearing do you guys like for SS?


I'm running 32-20. Seems about right for Utah trails.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

32-20 here in KC/MO too. Me and a friend of mine who has one both run the same ratio. Puts the eff. CS pretty short too.


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

appleSSeed said:


> 32-20 here in KC/MO too. Me and a friend of mine who has one both run the same ratio. Puts the eff. CS pretty short too.


Huh?
Calculate eff. CS length with http://eehouse.org/fixin/formfmu.php

Krampus min CS length is 446 mm.
For SSP we need min. 2-3 mm to loosen the chain, so we should be very close to 448-449 mm.
Fixmeup says, that the following ratios have about 450 mm CS lenght:
36/18
35/19
32/18
34/20
36/22
33/21
32/22

So a Krampus SSP rider should choose one of these:thumbsup:

(32/20 has 444 mm, which is too short for a Krampus, or a too long 457 mm CS length)


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## speedyuno (Aug 11, 2013)

What's SSP?


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## Bevalhalla (Jan 20, 2012)

Single SPeed


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

Bevalhalla said:


> Single SPeed


The German speaking world tends to use SSP instead of SS because of it's historical reference. It took me a long time to figure out what my German team mates were talking about with SSP as well.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

DerBergschreck said:


> Huh?
> Calculate eff. CS length with http://eehouse.org/fixin/formfmu.php
> 
> Krampus min CS length is 446 mm.
> ...


You must be fun at parties.

I said "pretty short" as I don't think I could go any shorter. There is about an inch of fork out left behind my axle nuts. I measured it at 17.75" which isn't short at all. Can't wait to get a custom built up! Short chain stays on a 29+ would rock.


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## pwd81 (May 2, 2011)




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## maettu (Oct 10, 2005)

Holy moly...
Beware of this beast!


pwd81 said:


> View attachment 853449


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## NickyTee (Oct 19, 2004)

*I don't like green!*

Just finished my build tonight, comes in at 30lb dead.

Frame + fork - Surly Krampus XL
Respray - Neon pink powdercoat by Armourtex Cycles
Headset - Cane Creek 40, ZS44 tall upper, EC44 lower, reducer crown race
Handlebar - Spank Spike 777 Evo, cut to 760mm
Stem - NYC Freeride, 50mm
Grips - ODI Yeti LockOn
Seatpost - Thomson Elite
Saddle - SDG BelAir
Cranks - Shimano XT, 180mm
Pedals - Shimano XT SPD
Chainring - RaceFace narrow/Wide, 32T
Chain - Shimano SLX
Cassette - Shimano XT 11-36T
Derailleur - Shimano Zee
Brakes - Shimano SLX, 203mm front, 180mm rear
Rims - Surly Rabbit Hole
Rim strips - Duck Tape Piggy Bank
Hubs - Hope Pro 2 Evo
Spokes - DT Comp
Nipples - DT Pro Lock
Tyres - Surly Knard 120tpi, tubeless

I'll try and take some daylight pictures tomorrow!


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Wow, that is bright!


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## CycleMonkey (Nov 20, 2013)

While this is not a Krampus, but we thought it'd be of interest to 29+ fans. Fresh out of the Monkey Lab, check out this custom Twenty2 Cycles frame we built up with a Rohloff and Belt drive. The goal was to create the ultimate adventure bikepacking build that would also feel capable on speedy singletrack rides from time to time. Read up on the build here:

The Monkey Lab: Twenty2 Cycles Belt Drive Rohloff 29+


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Wow, that is bright!


He wasn't even using a flash in those night pics either.


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## MJS95 (Jan 8, 2013)

Hey all,

This isn't exactly a Krampus question, but it is a Knard question and I figure y'all are going to be the best real world resource for that. For those who have run Knards on Flow EX rims, what is is the width of the tire at its widest point? Preferably the 27tpi tires, but please share whatever you have. I am asking because I am awaiting my ECR frame, and will be running my current 3x10 drive train, and think I may be able to fit a Knard on a Flow EX with the 3x10. If it fits, it will be close, but whatever.

Thanks all.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

Finally installed OD cranks to make my Krampus basically what a stock build should be:
(except for the Ice Spikers of course which are just on for winter)


----------



## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

Want. 
I love messing with all of the folks around here that have to have flat black everything.

Long live Neon!



NickyTee said:


> Just finished my build tonight, comes in at 30lb dead.
> 
> Frame + fork - Surly Krampus XL
> Respray - Neon pink powdercoat by Armourtex Cycles
> ...


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I noticed a comparison between RH and Dually 29+ rims buried in the comments [look for comment by Jan] section of this ECR blog post.

Dissecting the Surly ECR | gypsy by trade

Worth a read if you are interested in setting them up tubeless.


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## shrouded (Jul 8, 2013)

No action in the Krampus thread for nine days? Here's an iPhone shot of mine for a bump.









Is anyone else planning to try one of the OneUp 42 tooth sprockets on their Krampus?


----------



## And.professor (Sep 11, 2013)




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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

shrouded said:


> No action in the Krampus thread for nine days? Here's an iPhone shot of mine for a bump.
> 
> View attachment 857420
> 
> ...


How do you like that WB fork?


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## shrouded (Jul 8, 2013)

Gouda Cheez said:


> How do you like that WB fork?


A lot. That fork and carbon bars made the ride even better, and I can definitely feel the difference with less weight out front.

Here's a shot without the Instagram filters.


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

You can check out some pics of my purple people eater at Reader?s Ride(s) ? White Mike?s Violet Krampus | FAT-BIKE.COM


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

I think I need to add a Krampus to the quiver!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

dvn said:


> I think I need to add a Krampus to the quiver!


Funny my GF was just lookin over my shoulder and said the same thing...


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Krampus owners... what chainring (size) came on / with your Krampus? Everywhere I've looked, I've seen the factory build is 32t or 34t. Mine is a 36t. I'm wondering if I should look into swapping a 32 or 34 in an effort to make climbing a little bit easier. Thoughts?


----------



## og1 (Mar 3, 2008)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Krampus owners... what chainring (size) came on / with your Krampus? Everywhere I've looked, I've seen the factory build is 32t or 34t. Mine is a 36t. I'm wondering if I should look into swapping a 32 or 34 in an effort to make climbing a little bit easier. Thoughts?


mine came with a 34 but i swapped in a 32. I may go with a race face 30t now that they are out. the 32 is totally doable for me but would like a little lower bailout gear


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I'm thinking it would be good for me to go down to a 34 or 32. I'm still a noob so I don't know much about swapping - would I need to shorten the chain if I stepped down to a 34 or 32?


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

Mine came with the 36t chainring, switched it out for the OD cranks with the 39t/26t rings.


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## pucho (Jun 19, 2008)

Gouda Cheez said:


> I'm thinking it would be good for me to go down to a 34 or 32. I'm still a noob so I don't know much about swapping - would I need to shorten the chain if I stepped down to a 34 or 32?


Look at the park tools website for a good tutorial on seeing your chain length. I like to use the big to big + 2 links method.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk


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## chilled_kroete (Jul 17, 2008)

Mine, now with Syncros FL Carbon Forks (480mm), Syncros Ti Saddle, Answer Rove XC (70mm) stem and Answer Enduro 20/20 bars.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

appleSSeed said:


> You can check out some pics of my purple people eater at Reader?s Ride(s) ? White Mike?s Violet Krampus | FAT-BIKE.COM


WOW... I love it.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Just ordered a 32T Race Face chainring from Jenson. For anyone that is looking for a ring, Jenson has these rings on sale for $18. Looking forward to swapping from the 36T.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Just ordered a 32T Race Face chainring from Jenson. For anyone that is looking for a ring, Jenson has these rings on sale for $18. Looking forward to swapping from the 36T.


I would spend a little more and get the wide/narrow race face rings, so you can get rid of the chain keeper. (assuming you still have stock rear der with a clutch)


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I thought about it, but I have yet to drop a chain without a chain keeper on the stock setup. We will see what happens. For $18, I'm not too worried.


----------



## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Gouda Cheez said:


> I thought about it, but I have yet to drop a chain without a chain keeper on the stock setup. We will see what happens. For $18, I'm not too worried.


I've removed my stock chain keeper, and ran either the standard 34t ring or a 30t ring with wide/narrow teeth. I've dropped chains with the standard ring, but not the wide/narrow ring. But yeah, I've read standard rings work for some. So to each his own.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

renegade44 said:


> I've removed my stock chain keeper, and ran either the standard 34t ring or a 30t ring with wide/narrow teeth. I've dropped chains with the standard ring, but not the wide/narrow ring. But yeah, I've read standard rings work for some. So to each his own.


Figure worst case I can trash the $18 regular ring and get a NW. We will see. I wouldn't mind a chain keeper either... I kind of like the look of them for some reason.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Btw, I have NO experience installing this sorta thing so maybe I'm an idiot thinking I can just swap rings out all of the time.


----------



## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Any Krampus users running a "budget XX1" setup? I'm thinking of getting a narrow/wide chainring and a 42t cog (OneUp or similar) to increase my gear range and eliminate my chainguide without spending a fortune. Has anybody tried this combination on their Krampus? Thoughts?


----------



## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Btw, I have NO experience installing this sorta thing so maybe I'm an idiot thinking I can just swap rings out all of the time.


Just make sure you are getting 4 bolt 104 BCD (bolt circle diameter) chainrings to go on the stock Zee cranks, the bolt patterns can come in quite a variety of sizes.


----------



## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Any Krampus users running a "budget XX1" setup? I'm thinking of getting a narrow/wide chainring and a 42t cog (OneUp or similar) to increase my gear range and eliminate my chainguide without spending a fortune. Has anybody tried this combination on their Krampus? Thoughts?


I just ordered mine. I build my frame last winter and was running 2 x 10 XT. Last summer I could not seem to entirely get rid of the chain/tire rub in granny gear. I ordered the Raceface narrow/wide 30t and the Oneup 42t ring. I understand that the Raceface narrow/wide will also fit directly on the Zee crank as well.

PS. I wouldn't wait too long for the oneup order they seem to be selling out see: OneUp Components - Free Shipping Worldwide


----------



## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

temporoad said:


> I just ordered mine. I build my frame last winter and was running 2 x 10 XT. Last summer I could not seem to entirely get rid of the chain/tire rub in granny gear. I ordered the Raceface narrow/wide 30t and the Oneup 42t ring. I understand that the Raceface narrow/wide will also fit directly on the Zee crank as well.


Let me know how it turns out! I'll be ordering a 32t RF ring and either OneUp or Wolf Tooth 42t cog when warm weather hits. I'd love to hear some reviews in the meantime. Be sure to post pictures :thumbsup:


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Alex.C said:


> Just make sure you are getting 4 bolt 104 BCD (bolt circle diameter) chainrings to go on the stock Zee cranks, the bolt patterns can come in quite a variety of sizes.


Yep, that's the size!


----------



## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Let me know how it turns out! Be sure to post pictures :thumbsup:


Okay, will do. I already have the bike ripped apart ready for the parts.


----------



## zach349 (Aug 5, 2010)

*going to be a fun ride*









It's been around the block since the build. Was a blast busting through snow banks and ripping around in the snow. Has currently been super cold and haven't been out on any dirt yet. My first SS and super excited.

Poached a seat off my wife's bike while I wait for a good deal on a good saddle.

XL Frame
Hope pro 2 evo hubs
Blunt 35 Rims (tubeless)
Knard 27tpi
DT thru bolt levers
Thomson post
Thomson x4 stem
RaceFace Turbine Bar
RaceFace Turbine cranks
e13 ring 32t
Surly 22t cog (geared down for hills and snow)
Xt Brakes


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

When I go from a 36t to a 32t I should expect to shorten the chain a bit right? A couple links? Noob question, but I can't find a definitive answer.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2014)

Gouda Cheez said:


> When I go from a 36t to a 32t I should expect to shorten the chain a bit right? A couple links? Noob question, but I can't find a definitive answer.


just let it hang.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

When I do my conversion from 2 x 10 to 1 x 10 (with 42t on the rear). Since I an removing the front derailleur should I remove the money nuts?

thanks


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

temporoad said:


> When I do my conversion from 2 x 10 to 1 x 10 (with 42t on the rear). Since I an removing the front derailleur should I remove the money nuts?
> 
> thanks


You certainly could, though I think they said some shadow derailleurs had problems with rear axle placement. I'd go read surly's tech documents and such if you have one of those. I can personally say sram works fine with wheel slammed forward.

It's a big bike, so unless you're worried about doing wheelies on climbs, shorter rear end should make it feel more nimble and thus more fun to ride. I couldn't notice much of a difference myself, but I am not picky about geometry and feel like I adapt quickly to anything reasonable.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Gouda Cheez said:


> When I go from a 36t to a 32t I should expect to shorten the chain a bit right? A couple links? Noob question, but I can't find a definitive answer.


if you remove 2 full links (4 half links), your wheel should stay almost in the same place. As far as I understand, going to a smaller chainwheel will allow it to go back slightly in the dropouts due to the flatter angle the chain makes.

Make sure you do not use a chaintool to rejoin your chain-this is not appropriate for modern chains. Your chain probably has a quick link; remove it and cut the chain there so you can rejoin it with the same quick link. If you cut the chain too short, I would buy a new one (to avoid an increased likelihood of chain failure), so think about it carefully before cutting.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

PretendGentleman said:


> if you remove 2 full links (4 half links), your wheel should stay almost in the same place. As far as I understand, going to a smaller chainwheel will allow it to go back slightly in the dropouts due to the flatter angle the chain makes.
> 
> Make sure you do not use a chaintool to rejoin your chain-this is not appropriate for modern chains. Your chain probably has a quick link; remove it and cut the chain there so you can rejoin it with the same quick link. If you cut the chain too short, I would buy a new one (to avoid an increased likelihood of chain failure), so think about it carefully before cutting.


This helps a lot. Thank you.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

PretendGentleman said:


> If you cut the chain too short, I would buy a new one (to avoid an increased likelihood of chain failure), so think about it carefully before cutting.


I've cut and added links to SRAM chains almost indiscriminately and had no issues at all. Some of my chains have 2-3 powerlinks joining them together. I haven't had a chain failure in as long as I can remember.

Having said that I wouldn't bother trying to save a well worn chain. It's the cheap link in your system and better to replace chains early than wear other parts that are more expensive and more hassle to replace.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I agree with vikb and have also used many chains with multiple quick links and haven't had any issues. As along as your chain is worth saving (i.e. not too worn out) there is no issue using multiple quick links to get some more miles out of it if you do cut it too short.


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## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

Krampus owners; what geom changes would you like to see in the future generations, if any?


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

edge said:


> Krampus owners; what geom changes would you like to see in the future generations, if any?


For me, taller head tube. The Krampus head tube is crazy short, I wound up finding 1.5" riser bars to get the fit right without having to use 3" of spacers under the stem.


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

yeah... I have 2" risers and 3" of spacers 

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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

vikb said:


> I've cut and added links to SRAM chains almost indiscriminately and had no issues at all. Some of my chains have 2-3 powerlinks joining them together. I haven't had a chain failure in as long as I can remember.
> 
> Having said that I wouldn't bother trying to save a well worn chain. It's the cheap link in your system and better to replace chains early than wear other parts that are more expensive and more hassle to replace.


My LBS checked my chain not long ago. Should be good for another 3-4 months of riding, at least. All of this is great info, guys. Again, I really appreciate it. Love all the stuff I learn on this site.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

hirschmj said:


> For me, taller head tube. The Krampus head tube is crazy short, I wound up finding 1.5" riser bars to get the fit right without having to use 3" of spacers under the stem.


That's one thing I've been wondering... if I'll be more comfortable with 1.5" riser bars.


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## lancelot (May 24, 2006)

Main reason I went custom. I always find the Surly geo too short in the front for the XL size I require.


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## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

hirschmj said:


> For me, taller head tube. The Krampus head tube is crazy short, I wound up finding 1.5" riser bars to get the fit right without having to use 3" of spacers under the stem.


How long would you want the headtube to be? 110mm? 115mm? I was wondering if there's a 44ec top bearing headset that could help fill some of the void.


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## NickyTee (Oct 19, 2004)

edge said:


> How long would you want the headtube to be? 110mm? 115mm? I was wondering if there's a 44ec top bearing headset that could help fill some of the void.


The headtube seems only a little short, at 115mm in size XL. By comparison, my Covert 29's headtube is 120mm.

I used a Cane Creek 40 headset, with a ZS44 tall upper (top stack height = 15mm), EC44 lower and reducer crown race. Then a 20mm spacer and 50mm rise bars work just fine for me, whilst still looking acceptable!


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

yeah.... I could use another 50mm or so... of course I'm 6'7"

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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

but I do love the way it rides..... 15 miles a day for my commute... have on half off road..... 

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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I agree with vikb and have also used many chains with multiple quick links and haven't had any issues. As along as your chain is worth saving (i.e. not too worn out) there is no issue using multiple quick links to get some more miles out of it if you do cut it too short.


my experience as well.

have also run them on fixed bikes both road and mtn forever with zero problems.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Any Krampus users running a "budget XX1" setup? I'm thinking of getting a narrow/wide chainring and a 42t cog (OneUp or similar) to increase my gear range and eliminate my chainguide without spending a fortune. Has anybody tried this combination on their Krampus? Thoughts?


I've ran 30t Wolftooth chainring on mine, and just got a 34t Race Face as well (in green of course). I like ditching the chain keeper, as I'm not a fan of the MRP design. I hate having to adjust via the bottom bracket, and I once had one get out alignment from a snagged broken chain. I fixed the chain, but no way could I move the chain keeper back by hand on the side of the trail.

The new 42t cogs sound appealing, but worry me because a 42t cog can put a lot more torque into the freehub than traditional sizes.
1. Will the single cog dig into free hub body?
2. Will my freehub handle the torque?

My stock shimano freehub failed (i.e. quit coasting) about 1 month after I got my Krampus complete. Between me being a clyde (215 lbs) with single speed strength and the great climbing traction of the Knards, I guess I overdid it when trying to see just how steep of hill I could climb.

The second one has been fine, and no issues in 6+ months of riding. I've tried to take it a little easier though, and not muscle up the really steep just because I can. Or maybe the first one just a dud?

I did some research on shimano hubs, and found they had issues when they went from 34t to 36t due to the extra torque. They had to strengthen the freehub, which is why you know see hubs with rating for 36t. So what happens when you go to 42t?

Of course, going to a premium brand hub might alleviate any potential issues too.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Installed my 32t chainring today. It went relatively smooth until I went to mess with shortening the chain. I went too short even though I thought I measured it out correctly. Live and learn I guess. I ended up purchasing a new chain from my LBS and then cut it to the same length as my old chain. It seems to be fine but I guess I won't know until I get it out on the trail. Good news is that I learned a lot working on it.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Went out on a test ride around the neighborhood. I'm stoked to get this out on the trail.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Installed my 32t chainring today. It went relatively smooth until I went to mess with shortening the chain. I went too short even though I thought I measured it out correctly.


Sorry, didn't post earlier. If you switch from a 34t to a 32t on a geared bike, there is no reason to shorten your chain. I switch between a 34 and 30 all the time. The other poster thought you were riding a singlespeed, which could require a chain change.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

It's ok. No big deal. It was a fun experience.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Go where? On another ride? I sure hope so. 32T was great on my ride this morning. Wish I would've done it sooner.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

I may have to steal the wife's frame bags, they work a little better on my Krampus than her (blue) Karate Monkey IMHO.


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## TSOXBHK (Jan 17, 2012)

Alex.C said:


> I may have to steal the wife's frame bags, they work a little better on my Krampus than her (blue) Karate Monkey IMHO.


That is very nice. Has anybody got there hands on one of those Recon 11-40 or 42 cant remember cassettes from Taiwan?


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

I don't know if you guys have seen this thread, but the dudes from RSD bikes are claiming to have an unbranded 100mm air suspension fork that will hold a Knard/Rabbit Hole with clearance:

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/rsd-bikes-29er-894773.html


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Alex.C said:


> I may have to steal the wife's frame bags, they work a little better on my Krampus than her (blue) Karate Monkey IMHO.


Happy St. Paddy's Day to you!


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Slow Danger said:


> I don't know if you guys have seen this thread, but the dudes from RSD bikes are claiming to have an unbranded 100mm air suspension fork that will hold a Knard/Rabbit Hole with clearance:
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/rsd-bikes-29er-894773.html


Pretty hush hush about where the fork is coming from.


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## WyldStallyn (Jun 5, 2013)

So, I'm not to excited about the plastic MRP guide. One good driveside crash, or enough time in the sun, and something is bound to go wrong. I am thinking of upgrading to a Paul Comp guide for a bit more quality/durability (and possibly anodized goodness). I also have my eye on a Surly stainless steel chainring. The price is decent, steel will live longer than aluminum, and they're symmetrical, so they can be flipped once wear starts to show. Anybody have any experince with those bad boys? I wonder if they hold the chain well enough that I might be able to ditch the chain guide. Maybe I should buy 'merican and go with a Wolf Tooth CR and call it a day.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I would just go with a WT or RaceFace NW and call it a day. Hell, I went with a normal RaceFace ring and haven't had any problems (yet) without a guide.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

WyldStallyn said:


> So, I'm not to excited about the plastic MRP guide. One good driveside crash, or enough time in the sun, and something is bound to go wrong. I am thinking of upgrading to a Paul Comp guide for a bit more quality/durability (and possibly anodized goodness). I also have my eye on a Surly stainless steel chainring. The price is decent, steel will live longer than aluminum, and they're symmetrical, so they can be flipped once wear starts to show. Anybody have any experince with those bad boys? I wonder if they hold the chain well enough that I might be able to ditch the chain guide. Maybe I should buy 'merican and go with a Wolf Tooth CR and call it a day.


The Surly chainrings will not hold the chain without some sort of a guide. I also suggest a RF or WT chainring if you want to ditch the guide. Surly 4-bolt chainrings have been known to bend, so if you're a masher keep that in mind.


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

why are you worried?? MRP has been around for a while and their stuff is good. I'm not sure how you could even hit or break a top guide, it would be a strange crash. Anyways, I'd give it a try, they are proven to work quite well...........



WyldStallyn said:


> So, I'm not to excited about the plastic MRP guide. One good driveside crash, or enough time in the sun, and something is bound to go wrong. I am thinking of upgrading to a Paul Comp guide for a bit more quality/durability (and possibly anodized goodness). I also have my eye on a Surly stainless steel chainring. The price is decent, steel will live longer than aluminum, and they're symmetrical, so they can be flipped once wear starts to show. Anybody have any experince with those bad boys? I wonder if they hold the chain well enough that I might be able to ditch the chain guide. Maybe I should buy 'merican and go with a Wolf Tooth CR and call it a day.


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## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Pretty hush hush about where the fork is coming from.


Yeah, as you could see, I tried asking from as many angles possible. Kinda like trying to nail down a politician. You ask in just enough ways to demonstrate that the question is being ducked. Kind of interesting because I have to assume that the fork is being made specifically for these 29+ rims and tires, right? Could be the same company that's making those inverted suspension fat forks, but who knows. How many companies out there have the capacity to build a suspension fork? Sounds like they'll sell you a fork if you contact them through your LBS.


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## WyldStallyn (Jun 5, 2013)

sasquatch - Thanks for the tip about the Surly CRs. I do tend to smash pretty hard on climbs. Now to decide who's going to get my money.

digthemlows - I am not saying anything about the quality of MRP's gear. I have the bb mount guide, and have already bounced it off some rocks. It was my first ride on the Krampus, and I learned how wide the 780mm bars are the hard way, clipped a tree that was never a problem on my local trail. Also, the sun beats down pretty hard here in Cali. That combined with the salty air by the San Fran Bay doesn't bode well for plastic.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Slow Danger said:


> Yeah, as you could see, I tried asking from as many angles possible. Kinda like trying to nail down a politician. You ask in just enough ways to demonstrate that the question is being ducked. Kind of interesting because I have to assume that the fork is being made specifically for these 29+ rims and tires, right? Could be the same company that's making those inverted suspension fat forks, but who knows. How many companies out there have the capacity to build a suspension fork? Sounds like they'll sell you a fork if you contact them through your LBS.


Annoying but I get it. I'll have to peek back in the thread from time to time and see if anything develops.

Someone's making it, and it's not RSD directly (at least I wouldn't imagine). Wonder if it's even quality...


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

For all the krampus owners out there, ive got some questions..
I'm pretty much redoing my quiver of bikes. got an aggressive hardtail 26er, 6inch AM bike, and a singlespeed FGFS frame bike with big road tires and riser bars that i use for commuting/anything road.

i'm going to sell everything but the hardtail. will be getting a more dedicated road bike, an AM/enduro bike, and looking for one more bike, something more like a dedicated fun bike i can ride anywhere. 

im seriously looking at building a singlespeed hardtail 29er, on the more aggressive side. something i can ride around town and just screw around on, but more importantly, ride trails and really see how far i can push myself with a basic, one speed bike.

I saw some gnarly guy a couple years ago riding in moab, wearing jorts and a tank top on a rigid singlespeed 29er with big tires, and keeping up with guys on decked out 6" full suspension bikes over some pretty crazy stuff. after seeing that i fell in love with the idea of pushing a basic bike beyond its limits like that.

I've narrowed it down to the canfield nimble nine, and the krampus. 

the nimble nine would obviously be lighter, easier to flick around, probably more playful, and im guessing faster. i think its a very safe bet, i dont see how that couldnt be fun, its guaranteed.

the krampus is so appealing because it just seems like a complete tank of a bike, something that you can abuse and plow and just be a reckless idiot on. my only concern is that it might feel too sluggish, like it would be dificult to really sprint on. where with the nimble nine, you'd hammer the pedals and it would sprig forward, the krampus might have that soft spongy, doesnt really wanna accelerate feel. i know it'll be fun on the downs, but its the up's and flats that concern me.

anybody have any advice? i know i just gave you a lot more info than you needed, but hopefully that gives you an idea of where im coming from.


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I briefly owned a Nimble 9, and demo'd a Krampus. I didn't really care for the handling of the N9, just too slow and dull for my tastes. The Krampus, OTOH, I enjoyed quite a bit. Which is a bit disconcerting, as I expect if you compared the front end trail numbers for each, they would come out pretty similar. But in the event, I enjoyed the way the Krampus handled and could roll over most anything, while the N9 just felt like a normal 29er, albeit one that steered poorly. I found both frames quite stiff, probably too stiff for my flex loving self, but I realized I'm in the minority of the market on this factor. Regardless, with the same wheels, tires, and gearing, I don't think either frame will give you a sprinting advantage.

The Krampus gives you more/better tire choices, and 29+ is looking to be a fun tire size. Of course, you can alway put a Knard on the front of a N9, then you could enjoy the shorter chainstays it offers.



mrsa101 said:


> For all the krampus owners out there, ive got some questions..
> I'm pretty much redoing my quiver of bikes. got an aggressive hardtail 26er, 6inch AM bike, and a singlespeed FGFS frame bike with big road tires and riser bars that i use for commuting/anything road.
> 
> i'm going to sell everything but the hardtail. will be getting a more dedicated road bike, an AM/enduro bike, and looking for one more bike, something more like a dedicated fun bike i can ride anywhere.
> ...


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

digthemlows said:


> View attachment 863437
> 
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


I've gotta ask... how tall are you?!?


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

5'19

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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

mrsa101 said:


> I've narrowed it down to the canfield nimble nine, and the krampus.
> 
> the nimble nine would obviously be lighter, easier to flick around, probably more playful, and im guessing faster. i think its a very safe bet, i dont see how that couldnt be fun, its guaranteed.
> 
> ...


I've demo'd a N9 on the trails and my buddy rides one - it's tank and not any lighter than my Krampus. We haven't drag raced, but I don't think you'll find the N9 faster than the Krampus when you stomp on the pedals either. That's certainly not the N9's mission. I don't have the specs at hand, but I wouldn't be surprised if the N9 frame is heavier than the Krampus.

Where a N9 will shine is in steep rough tech descents - assuming you put a long travel fork on it and some beefy tires.

Assuming you are building the Krampus rigid it will make for a great all around MTB. I far prefer to be on my 6" travel FS bike in the tech, but that's a personal preference.

Had the Krampus not come out I was seriously considering a N9, but once I got a hold of the Krampus any thoughts of a N9 evaporated.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

seat_boy said:


> I briefly owned a Nimble 9, and demo'd a Krampus. I didn't really care for the handling of the N9, just too slow and dull for my tastes. The Krampus, OTOH, I enjoyed quite a bit. Which is a bit disconcerting, as I expect if you compared the front end trail numbers for each, they would come out pretty similar. But in the event, I enjoyed the way the Krampus handled and could roll over most anything, while the N9 just felt like a normal 29er, albeit one that steered poorly. I found both frames quite stiff, probably too stiff for my flex loving self, but I realized I'm in the minority of the market on this factor. Regardless, with the same wheels, tires, and gearing, I don't think either frame will give you a sprinting advantage.
> 
> The Krampus gives you more/better tire choices, and 29+ is looking to be a fun tire size. Of course, you can alway put a Knard on the front of a N9, then you could enjoy the shorter chainstays it offers.


You are the first person in history to say a N9 handles slow. I realize this is a krampus thread soni expect their fanboys to be strong but cmon, a N9 feels like any ol 29er? That statement makes you lose all credibility with me.

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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

vikb said:


> I've demo'd a N9 on the trails and my buddy rides one - it's tank and not any lighter than my Krampus. We haven't drag raced, but I don't think you'll find the N9 faster than the Krampus when you stomp on the pedals either. That's certainly not the N9's mission. I don't have the specs at hand, but I wouldn't be surprised if the N9 frame is heavier than the Krampus.
> 
> Where a N9 will shine is in steep rough tech descents - assuming you put a long travel fork on it and some beefy tires.
> 
> ...


huh thats interesting.. maybe the N9 isnt the way to go then if im looking for a lighter alternative to the krampus. i guess the frame is heavy, i just thought the size and weight of the 3.0 tires on the krampus would have a big effect, guess not?

i talked to a guy at my LBS about the krampus he built up, i thought he was being sarcastic when he said he race's xc on it and its faster than his old carbon xc bike. maybe there's some truth to that.. 
im not an xc type guy in the slightest but damn that would be fun to enter some xc races on that beast and actually be able to do well..
well maybe the krampus is the way to go then, i think its what i wanted to be right for me anyway, just because its an out there, different kinda bike.

do you notice it working better for out of the saddle hammering up climbs? id imagine all that rubber makes it easy to put the power to the ground, id love the ability to just hammer the pedals and charge up stuff without having to worry about spinning the tire.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

Skip the nimble 9 and go with a yelli screamy if you want lighterweight but still tough. It hammers up climbs and is a beast descending

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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

mrsa101 said:


> huh thats interesting.. maybe the N9 isnt the way to go then if im looking for a lighter alternative to the krampus. i guess the frame is heavy, i just thought the size and weight of the 3.0 tires on the krampus would have a big effect, guess not?


The N9 is an all mtn hardtail so I'm expecting you'd put some burly 900-1000g+ knobby tires on it and those aren't going to blow away a set of Knards for speed.

You could put XC rubber on a N9, but that seems like an odd combo and in that case you could put XC rubber on a Krampus as well.



mrsa101 said:


> do you notice it working better for out of the saddle hammering up climbs? id imagine all that rubber makes it easy to put the power to the ground, id love the ability to just hammer the pedals and charge up stuff without having to worry about spinning the tire.


The Krampus climbs just fine.

A lot of the trails where I live are rough rocky and rooty technical in nature. I don't find any rigid bike climbs as well as my FS bike because that rigid back end can't follow the ground as well as a suspended rear end so it skips off things and you have to put the power down with some care.

On smoother climbs the Knards hook up great, but I don't think they'd be any better than a say a 2.4" Trail King.

The bigger volume Knards are nice in some situations between smooth and full on tech. They can absorb a lot of roughness if inflated correctly. The bigger diameter wheels roll through rough sections better than a "normal" 29er tire.

It just depends where you ride. The Knards are not a silver bullet, but they can be quite nice.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I didn't just say it, "handled like any ol 29er," I then added "one that steered poorly." Sheesh, it's right there, try to get it right.

Everyone has their biases. In my experience, the best handling 29er I've ridden was an OS Blackbuck with the medium fork. So, 73* HA, 51mm rake = 60mm trail, vs. 81~95mm for the N9, depending on fork sag. So I'm probably coming at this from a different direction than riders who want a bludgeon to hammer the trail with.

I don't have a Krampus or a N9, so no real horse in this race.



cpfitness said:


> You are the first person in history to say a N9 handles slow. I realize this is a krampus thread soni expect their fanboys to be strong but cmon, a N9 feels like any ol 29er? That statement makes you lose all credibility with me.
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

mrsa101 said:


> im seriously looking at building a singlespeed hardtail 29er, on the more aggressive side. something i can ride around town and just screw around on, but more importantly, ride trails and really see how far i can push myself with a basic, one speed bike.
> 
> the krampus is so appealing because it just seems like a complete tank of a bike, something that you can abuse and plow and just be a reckless idiot on. my only concern is that it might feel too sluggish, like it would be dificult to really sprint on. where with the nimble nine, you'd hammer the pedals and it would sprig forward, the krampus might have that soft spongy, doesnt really wanna accelerate feel. i know it'll be fun on the downs, but its the up's and flats that concern me.
> 
> anybody have any advice? i know i just gave you a lot more info than you needed, but hopefully that gives you an idea of where im coming from.


I know you've gotten some good advice from vikb and others, but I'll add a couple of other points... First, the Krampus genuinely rides "way better than it should." It's funny, but everyone who rides it says the same thing. It doesn't accelerate like an XC race rocket, but it is honestly flickable and "springy." Mine's built up as a SS (never ridden it with gears), and with a 470mm AC carbon fork it weighs exactly 25lbs with pedals. I'm not a stranger to playful 29er single speeds, because I also have a rigid Black Cat with 16.25 inch chainstays.

Interestingly, the thing that makes the Krampus most unique (the 29+ Knard) is also the limiting factor in your ability to ride like a reckless idiot. The 120 TPI version is relatively fragile, so you'll need to find the right mix of tire pressure and self control on fast rocky downhills. It's not hard to pinch -- even set up tubeless. Fortunately, new tires are on their way, and I expect there will be more and more options as we move through 2014.

Uphill and flats are awesome. Major traction in corners and climbs.

Have fun bike shopping!


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Gouda Cheez said:


> I've gotta ask... how tall are you?!?
> 
> 
> digthemlows said:
> ...


:lol: :thumbsup:


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## Big Gags (Jan 8, 2013)

Late last year I entered a four day stage race (the Cape to Cape) in Margaret River, Western Australia and decided to take my Krampus over for the event (I live on the other side of Australia in Melbourne). The stages varied in distance from 40 km to just under 70 km and the Krampus performed fantastic on single track, fire roads, and tarmac (once those big wheels are rolling they go pretty well!!). I took some gopro footage and put some up on youtube - check out the following link at about the 11m20s mark for a sprint finish!!) Cape to Cape 2013 - Day 4 - YouTube

I managed to come in 244th overall from a field of about 1300 or so riders which I was pretty happy with!! I reckon the Krampus was perfect for the event and I absolutely love it.

Gags


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## fatlip11 (Aug 24, 2011)

My SS, a Misfit Dissent is waaay more flickable than my Krampus. At almost 25lbs it is 5lbs lighter than my Krampus but feels lighter than that overall. So, if that is what your after...

Having said that, the Krampus is an absolute joy to ride, yes it does have monster truck like qualities but it does not feel like it is weighted down, it's just fun. Not sure I helped at all with that comment but I would recommend taking one for a spin if you can.
Good luck with your purchase!


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

If i got a krampus i would definitely build it from the frame up, i could see easily getting to 25lbs or so. i believe a couple peoples builds ive seen are right around there? considering the size of those tires thats a pretty damn good weight i think.

the "monster truck" qualities are definitely appealing. i like light and flickable, but considering i have a light flickable hardtail 26er, i could use something different. i just want it light and flickable enough so that its not boring. 

i also want the bike to be pretty responsive to pedaling, and be able to carry speed. like when i stand up and mash the pedals, i want that springy eager to accelerate feel, not a sluggish feel. i see the krampus being able to carry speed extremely well, its more the acceleration that im worried about.


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## raymondy (Jul 16, 2013)

digthemlows said:


> View attachment 863437
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you must be a giant.


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## fotu (Jan 20, 2005)

So, has anyone pedaled one of these things, or are these basically downhill bikes?


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

fotu said:


> So, has anyone pedaled one of these things, or are these basically downhill bikes?


It's definitely not a downhill bike. I ride cx on mine. typically 25-30 mile singletrack rides with tons of short and medium climbs with lots of leaves on everything. 
for big, fast, bumpy downhills, you really miss suspension. this bike has only 1" more tire suspension than a 2" rigid bike.

Turning is fun with bigger tires. You get more predictable and thus controllable drifting. My wheels drifted through mud and leaves for 25' or so through a high-speed turn the other day. I think it would have gone badly with skinnier tires. I'm ready for someone to release a 29x3.25 for the front.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

fotu said:


> So, has anyone pedaled one of these things, or are these basically downhill bikes?


I do way more pedaling than not pedaling on mine. All smiles.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Surprisingly there's only 1 MTBR review for the Krampus. This shocked me, especially with how popular this bike has been in the past year. I'm at fault for not writing one just as much as all of you are :nono: :thumbsup:


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Too busy riding.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

fotu said:


> So, has anyone pedaled one of these things, or are these basically downhill bikes?


Nobody pedals them. I didn't even bother putting a chain and cranks on mine. I just installed some highway pegs from my motorcycle. I've seen some folks fill the main tubes with lead shot to get more weight for downhill races. Not strictly legal, but what they heck I appreciate the ingenuity.


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## santacruzer (Nov 30, 2004)

I've ridden my perfectly good 22lb Spearfish exactly one time since I've had the Krampus, it's my go to bike now


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

raymondy said:


> you must be a giant.


6'7 230lbs.... not too big

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

fotu said:


> So, has anyone pedaled one of these things, or are these basically downhill bikes?


There's a fella Ive ridden with a couple times that has one. First ride was very technical rock crawling and the second time more traditional xc riding with lots of climbing. He had no problem with either.


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## fotu (Jan 20, 2005)

jeffw-13 said:


> There's a fella Ive ridden with a couple times that has one. First ride was very technical rock crawling and the second time more traditional xc riding with lots of climbing. He had no problem with either.


Not suggesting that someone would encounter problems, but I feel like 2.3 nevegals are pain to drag around, especially on the back. So I can only imagine that 3 inch honkers are heavy and slow. But that's why I am asking, is this a bike that people hammer on and shred twisty rolly single track or is it something you winch yourself around on in a little gear?


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

fotu said:


> Not suggesting that someone would encounter problems, but I feel like 2.3 nevegals are pain to drag around, especially on the back. So I can only imagine that 3 inch honkers are heavy and slow. But that's why I am asking, is this a bike that people hammer on and shred twisty rolly single track or is it something you winch yourself around on in a little gear?


Tire size and rolling resistance are related, but they're not the same thing. I feel like my Krampus with RH-Knards rolls WAY faster than my SB-95 with Minions and carbon rims. It might even roll faster than the 2.4 Ardents I had on there before. The knobs are small enough and close enough together that they don't slow you down too much.

Getting the wheels rolling takes a little more energy because the rims are so heavy, but once you've moving it goes and goes and goes. This is definitely a shred twisty singletrack kind of bike.


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

im trying to figure out the same thing. i will say that i think fatter tires can roll better on bumpy terrain than smaller lighter tires, absorbing and rolling over rocks and stuff rather than bouncing. definitely felt this on my commuter going from 25c to 35c (probably closer to 40c)

the tire looks giant compared to the 25, and while the 25 is faster on super smooth surfaces, any not so perfect roads or bumpier stuff the 35's are faster for sure.


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

^^sweet! im as far as it gets from an xc racer, but id love to race xc on one of these if i get one just for the hell of it.


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## JYB (Nov 12, 2011)

fotu said:


> Not suggesting that someone would encounter problems, but I feel like 2.3 nevegals are pain to drag around, especially on the back. So I can only imagine that 3 inch honkers are heavy and slow. But that's why I am asking, is this a bike that people hammer on and shred twisty rolly single track or is it something you winch yourself around on in a little gear?


I feel that the Krampus rolls way faster than anything with a Nevegal in the rear. Especially sticky rubber Neves. There are definitely times when you'll notice the heft of the Krampus (mine, in stock form, is over 33lb), but it will always make you smile. It really is a fun bike.


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## santacruzer (Nov 30, 2004)

JYB said:


> I feel that the Krampus rolls way faster than anything with a Nevegal in the rear. Especially sticky rubber Neves. There are definitely times when you'll notice the heft of the Krampus (mine, in stock form, is over 33lb), but it will always make you smile. It really is a fun bike.


I agree completely, mine is set up SS, it's 26lbs now and I've got a number of Strava KOM's on it on some of the flat river trails around here. It makes my good mountain bike feel sketchy now


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

Thats awesome, makes me want one of these so much more, its like a screw off hooligan bike that can still haul ass. pretty cool.


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## JYB (Nov 12, 2011)

santacruzer said:


> I agree completely, mine is set up SS, it's 26lbs now and I've got a number of Strava KOM's on it on some of the flat river trails around here. It makes my good mountain bike feel sketchy now


Nice! I can imagine that shedding some weight off my stock Krampus would up the grin factor even more. It would be easy to shed 7+lbs, depending on how much $$$ one is willing to spend.


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## USMCbiker (Jan 25, 2014)

*Carver XC470 for krampus*

I just ordered a Carver xc470 for my krampus and was just curious if anyone has any input on this. I could not find any reviews for it so I just said the hell with it and bought it. 
Figured I would bring it up and when I recieve it and install. I will post some pictures and a review. For now I'll post a general picture of my bike before upgrade.
Current upgrades so far are just X-9 shifter and derailleur, thomson elite seatpost, ea70 bar.


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

appleSSeed said:


> You can check out some pics of my purple people eater at Reader?s Ride(s) ? White Mike?s Violet Krampus | FAT-BIKE.COM




Hi!

Just a question from Belgium for my further Krampus :

Have you ever ride a Surly Krampus (or other 29+) with Surly Knard on Velocity Dually 29 wheels? Are these rims wide enough?

Thx!

Jos


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

jos_2001 said:


> Are these rims wide enough?


Velocity Dually are 45mm wide...Rabbit Holes are 50mm wide...no problem running either one with Knards.

Surly has stated they are okay with anything over 35mm and I've used Knards with narrower rims than that for several months.


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## JYB (Nov 12, 2011)

Here's another Krampus-related question. When building Rabbit Holes, what spoke tension should I shoot for? Does anyone know the max recommended spoke tension for these rims?


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

JYB said:


> Here's another Krampus-related question. When building Rabbit Holes, what spoke tension should I shoot for? Does anyone know the max recommended spoke tension for these rims?


I laced mine to a high tension using brass hex head nipples. Between the tension and spoke prep, if you try to adjust spoke tension with a regular spoke wrench, it just breaks off the tops of the nipples. These rims are beasts and everything has held up for a year now including totally wearing out a set of knards, so many hard miles during that time. I don't have a tensiometer at home, so I can't tell you any numbers unfortunately.

There's a debate out there about whether there are any advantages to building wheels at relatively high tensions. In my experience, for wheels with strong rims, high tension makes for a much stiffer wheel. This is because the wheel can deform more before spokes become entirely unloaded.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

We've all discussed spoke tension further back in this thread. I also run a higher spoke tension on my Rabbit Holes, but not so much that I feel it to be excessive. I don't have a tension meter at home, either, but you learn to feel what works and what doesn't. You run the risk of cracking the rim around the spoke nipple with extremely high tensions, especially on a wide, flat rim like this. I'd build them up a little tighter than what you usually build, if you build wheels, or ask your lbs (or whoever is building them) to add a little tension. It won't hurt anything and will result in a stronger, better-riding wheel. I've been very impressed with my wheelset for the past year. It's stayed very true, despite some hard hits, rocks contacting rim and regular riding.


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

thank you vikb.
I'm a little bit afraid of a loss oh the "fat effect" with this kind of rim. Can I ride with a lower tire pressure with the velocity? As low as a rabbit hole?

thx


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

jos_2001 said:


> thank you vikb.
> I'm a little bit afraid of a loss oh the "fat effect" with this kind of rim. Can I ride with a lower tire pressure with the velocity? As low as a rabbit hole?
> 
> thx


If not the same pressure it will be very close.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

For those of you who've played the mobile game "Giant Boulder of Death," did you know that you eventually unlock a Krampus? :thumbsup:










By the way, that's a child he's carrying on his back


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

thank you vikb


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## jan_nikolajsen (Oct 28, 2011)

Speaking of Dually rims, here's some on White Rim in January:


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## USMCbiker (Jan 25, 2014)

USMCbiker said:


> I just ordered a Carver xc470 for my krampus and was just curious if anyone has any input on this. I could not find any reviews for it so I just said the hell with it and bought it.
> Figured I would bring it up and when I recieve it and install. I will post some pictures and a review. For now I'll post a general picture of my bike before upgrade.
> Current upgrades so far are just X-9 shifter and derailleur, thomson elite seatpost, ea70 bar.


Just got the CK inset 7 and the Carver xc470 installed tonight. looks pretty good. The little rubber hair things do touch the side of the fork arms but just barely, test road it around the block a few times at 12 psi tried to see if I could get any rub but notta, that doesnt mean it wont happen when I get it on a single track. It did change my head tube angle to 68.5 (stock is 69.5) but... my phone app isnt the best. Hoping to test ride it soon if it ever gets above 0 degrees here.


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## cocksmith (Dec 12, 2010)

*Brake adapters for 180mm rotors*

I am going to order a Krampus and want to order 180mm rotors at the same time, can someone tell me what brake adapters are needed?

Thanks :thumbsup:


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

cocksmith said:


> I am going to order a Krampus and want to order 180mm rotors at the same time, can someone tell me what brake adapters are needed?
> 
> Thanks :thumbsup:


Order it through your LBS. They should match prices on the bike and they'll probably have the adaptor you need in stock.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

cocksmith said:


> I am going to order a Krampus and want to order 180mm rotors at the same time, can someone tell me what brake adapters are needed?
> 
> Thanks :thumbsup:


is this a trick question?


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

cocksmith said:


> I am going to order a Krampus and want to order 180mm rotors at the same time, can someone tell me what brake adapters are needed?


Use the ISO 51mm adapters, not the post-mount adapters, universal sells 'em, pick the right size or ask on the chat line:
Universal Cycles -- Avid Disc Brake Adapter


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

pursuiter said:


> Use the ISO 51mm adapters, not the post-mount adapters, universal sells 'em, pick the right size or ask on the chat line:
> Universal Cycles -- Avid Disc Brake Adapter


Not all calipers use the same size mount, so have your brake caliper picked out first/same time as the mount.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

USMCbiker said:


> Just got the CK inset 7 and the Carver xc470 installed tonight. looks pretty good. The little rubber hair things do touch the side of the fork arms but just barely, test road it around the block a few times at 12 psi tried to see if I could get any rub but notta, that doesnt mean it wont happen when I get it on a single track. It did change my head tube angle to 68.5 (stock is 69.5) but... my phone app isnt the best. Hoping to test ride it soon if it ever gets above 0 degrees here.


USMCbiker - Good call on the inset 7 and the xc470 -- I've been running both on my Krampus since June and after 600+ miles, have nothing but good things to say about both. Check out posts #1463 and #1471 in this thread for pix and insights.

Couple other thoughts on the fork: 1) You will likely get a little rub on the inner legs. I've never felt it while riding, but when I look at the inside of my fork 600 miles later, the rub marks are definitely there. 2) I'm surprised that it raked out your head tube angle, because the xc470 has a 13mm shorter axle to crown than the stock Krampus fork. 470mm vs. 483mm. Overall, I'll be curious to hear your impressions, because I never rode my bike with the stock fork (it's still wrapped in plastic in my garage), so I have no comparison. All my 29ers have been rigid, however (two steel forks and one Niner carbon), and I can say that the Carver on the Krampus feels great.

Let us know how it goes.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

USMCbiker said:


> Just got the... Carver xc470 installed tonight. looks pretty good. The little rubber hair things do touch the side of the fork arms but just barely, test road it around the block a few times at 12 psi tried to see if I could get any rub but notta, that doesnt mean it wont happen when I get it on a single track. ]


nice build. :thumbsup:

fwiw to those considering a carbon fork on the krampus or with knards, the foundry whisky 9 fork also fits the knard with room to spare for deflection.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Which carbon fork(s) are closest in geometry to the stock Krampus fork? Any others to mention?


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## shrouded (Jul 8, 2013)

I'm very happy with my White Brothers Rock Solid, in 490mm. I prefer the handing to stock. Plenty of clearance with RH + Knard.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

My new to me XL Krampus:










Yes, the front brake hose is too long. No, I probably won't change it anytime soon. I tried to leave it a bit long to work with my H bars later on, but it looks like I was too conservative in my cutting.

I have a few more pictures and details here.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

seat_boy said:


> My new to me XL Krampus:
> 
> Yes, the front brake hose is too long. No, I probably won't change it anytime soon. I tried to leave it a bit long to work with my H bars later on, but it looks like I was too conservative in my cutting.


try routing it around the right side of the head tube.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

just finished building mine today, and took it out for a ride. LOVED IT! believe i've found a frame builder that will put an s&s coupler on the seatstay so i can run it ss with a belt drive. as it sits it will convert to ss in about 10 minutes.

build:
king hubs/headset (building a surly mtn fixed rabbit hole wheel soon)
dt swiss ratcheting skewers
xx1 crank with 36t mrp bling ring
xo brakes 180/160
xo rear der with xx shifter
sram 1070 cassette (soon to be replaced with a shimano m771 12-36 (better spread) fitted with a one-up components 42t big cog)
cirrus saddle
bonty carbon post (soon to be replaced with either a moots or thomson - which ever i locate in my piles-o-stuff first)
on-one mary bars (about to be replaced with origin ul-8 carbon mtn space bars - virtually the same bar in carbon and 31.8)
oury grips
custom fab brake hose mount to rear fender hole
whiskey no. 9 carbon mtb fork coming soon

tubeless conversion was quick and easy. the 1.88" wide gorilla tape fits the inside of the rabbit hole like it was custom made for it! only one wrap was needed and it seated and held DRY. sealant added later through stem.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

Nice build. Would like to see a shot of the custom brake line holder. Also, as a side note, I've attempted to contact Origin 8 in both Czech Repub. and the US and no one responds. I was very interested in the same bar you're ordering. Enjoy!


Sent from my iPhone and only partially tracked by the NSA.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

1 Speed said:


> Nice build. Would like to see a shot of the custom brake line holder. Also, as a side note, I've attempted to contact Origin 8 in both Czech Repub. and the US and no one responds. I was very interested in the same bar you're ordering. Enjoy!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone and only partially tracked by the NSA.


thanks. i'll post up some pics later today of the line holder.

if you'd like some assistance getting the bar PM me and we can work something out.


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## TSOXBHK (Jan 17, 2012)

It looks as you have some extra spacers on your brake caliper mounts? It also looks like you do not have the spacers in your drop out for when you run a rear mech. If you dont run those spacers in the drop out your rear brake will not line up right and will rub the rotor in weird spots. This happened to me with my Krampus when I get it last year the first thing I did when building the bike was slide the rear wheel all the way forward in the drop out. You shifting will be better too.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

TSOXBHK said:


> It looks as you have some extra spacers on your brake caliper mounts? It also looks like you do not have the spacers in your drop out for when you run a rear mech. If you dont run those spacers in the drop out your rear brake will not line up right and will rub the rotor in weird spots. This happened to me with my Krampus when I get it last year the first thing I did when building the bike was slide the rear wheel all the way forward in the drop out. You shifting will be better too.


good eye, bro! indeed i do.

however, the spacers have absolutely nothing to do with using or not using the monkey nuts. it's because the brake adapter i used didn't allow the caliper to clear the rotor irrespective of it's position and are required whether running the nuts or not. the monkey nuts don't facilitate brake alignment but rather (as you mentioned) merely position the wheel for running a rear der. i also like to set up the brake so the wheel can be slid in and out without adjusting the caliper, for which the spacers also help. it means i lose a minor mount of pad contact but i've been doing this on karate monkeys and other bikes with track-ends/discs for many, many years with no noticeable loss in braking performance.

having owned many karate monkeys (i'm on my 5th) and running them both geared and ss/fixed i've found that the better the shifty bits are the less of an improvement is gained using the m.n., but i'm certainly not discounting that ymmv. it shifted perfectly and buttah schmoove with the wheel all the way forward. so while i cut the chain to use with the nuts i also wanted to run it without to see if there was any appreciable difference in handling/climbing between the roughly 1/2" different wheelbases. after yesterday's ride they were popped in and i will be heading out to the trails to log some research time shortly! though to be honest, i don't like how little clearance the tyre has without them so they'll probably stay simply for that reason alone.

such capability is just another of the many facets that makes surly bikes so versatile and uniquely customer customizable.

kramp on! :thumbsup:


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Well, duh. :madman:

Much better now, thanks! :thumbsup:



monogod said:


> try routing it around the right side of the head tube.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

1 Speed said:


> Would like to see a shot of the custom brake line holder.


as requested...


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I am fairly confident my LBS fawked up my cable routing after seeing all these pics. One day I'll have to re-route it. Is it hard to do? I've never messed with cables...


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Gouda Cheez said:


> I am fairly confident my LBS fawked up my cable routing after seeing all these pics. One day I'll have to re-route it. Is it hard to do? I've never messed with cables...


Not difficult at all. If you've got BB7s, you can pop the cable out without removing the caliper or lever (which requires removing a grip also) and also without using any tools. Just align the barrel adjuster so that the openings all line up with the lever, pull your housing outward and cable down through the opening and boom, its out. Just reverse to install. You could re-route the front cable in less than a minute, even if you had to cut/replace a zip tie. If you have hydros it's really no different. Take off the lever or caliper, re-route and install everything again. If you take off your caliper, don't mess with the caliper adjustment, just pop off the bolts holding the caliper bracket, then you won't have to make any adjustments or changes when putting it all back together..again, only a couple minute job, you'll just need tools if you go this route.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

monogod said:


> as requested...
> 
> View attachment 868506
> 
> ...


I tried something like that when I first got my Krampus, but the angle the cable was at greatly changed how smooth the front cable moved, so I left it stock. Your clamp makes no difference with hydro's, but I'd be curious to see what a clamp just a little longer to reduce that angle would do for cable actuated brakes. My housing quickly gets a groove worn into it by rubbing my lower headset cup, and the headset cup has all of the finish worn off where the cable rubs. I typically wear out my housing and replace it before any issues occur, but it would be nice to avoid this.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Not difficult at all. If you've got BB7s, you can pop the cable out without removing the caliper or lever (which requires removing a grip also) and also without using any tools. Just align the barrel adjuster so that the openings all line up with the lever, pull your housing outward and cable down through the opening and boom, its out. Just reverse to install. You could re-route the front cable in less than a minute, even if you had to cut/replace a zip tie. If you have hydros it's really no different. Take off the lever or caliper, re-route and install everything again. If you take off your caliper, don't mess with the caliper adjustment, just pop off the bolts holding the caliper bracket, then you won't have to make any adjustments or changes when putting it all back together..again, only a couple minute job, you'll just need tools if you go this route.


Thanks I'll give it a whirl.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I tried something like that when I first got my Krampus, but the angle the cable was at greatly changed how smooth the front cable moved, so I left it stock. Your clamp makes no difference with hydro's, but I'd be curious to see what a clamp just a little longer to reduce that angle would do for cable actuated brakes. My housing quickly gets a groove worn into it by rubbing my lower headset cup, and the headset cup has all of the finish worn off where the cable rubs. I typically wear out my housing and replace it before any issues occur, but it would be nice to avoid this.


imho, if they're going to route the cable behind the fork they either need to provide a bolt-on clamp or another braze-on cable saddle mounted horizontally on the rear of the fork where mine is placed. surly usually nails it on their design, but this is a glaring faux-pas.

my remedy: a disc rotor spacer, cage bolt, nyloc nut, 2 washers, and a small piece of rack mount rubber strap to keep the washer from marring the fork.

shimano calls them a "rotor plate".










my cable flows very well, no sharp bends or kinks, and i think it would work well with a cable brake. if you want, i can post more shots of how it's routed and flows so you can get an idea.

when setting it up i first flattened the lip with a pair of vise-grips. then i closed the rotor plate around a small screwdriver and tightened it down first, THEN ran the cable through it. this way it doesn't cut into, crimp, or kink the housing during shaping the rotor plate.

seems to hold well after a couple of rides. but if you need something wider perhaps you could try some very thin gauge metal plumber's tape. i may actually go this direction in future.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I might look into making another bracket that's a little longer, and possibly at an angle. It didn't bind my cable, but I felt a noticeably different cable feel on my front brake. I went as far as increasing the spring tension on my front BB7 a bit to neutralize the effect, but in the end I just couldn't get my lever feels close enough for me to enjoy. I do agree with you that they either need to add another braze-on cable guide to the fork or move the existing one up closer to the crown to route the cable away from the head tube.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

another possible solution would be to use one of these stick-on guides slightly inside of the fork leg rather than the braze-on guide to route the cable through the fork legs under the crown. then you could do a mount that would hold the cable under the steer tube at a 45 degree angle - which would minimize kinks/binding.

just spit-balling...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

monogod said:


> imho, if they're going to route the cable behind the fork they either need to provide a bolt-on clamp or another braze-on cable saddle mounted horizontally on the rear of the fork where mine is placed. surly usually nails it on their design, but this is a glaring faux-pas.












Sorry I must be missing it, but what's the issue with the stock front brake hose routing/mounts?

BTW - Surly also forgot the Rohloff cable guides! :nono:


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

vikb said:


> Sorry I must be missing it, but what's the issue with the stock front brake hose routing/mounts?


1. rubs on the lower headset cup/headtube (depending on ec or ic headset).
2. flops around too much

with my clamp, neither of these occur.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

monogod said:


> 1. rubs on the lower headset cup/headtube (depending on ec or ic headset).
> 2. flops around too much
> 
> with my clamp, neither of these occur.


Interesting. Not a detail that caught my attention during my Krampus build or riding.

Glad you found a way to solve the issue on your bike...:thumbsup:


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

vikb said:


> Sorry I must be missing it, but what's the issue with the stock front brake hose routing/mounts?


I haven't run into any flopping of my cable that bothered me, but the stock routing definitely causes the lower headset cup (Cane Creek) to wear through the cable housing, and the cable housing to wear off all the finish on the lower headset cup with regular riding/steering. I agree with monogod, a slightly different cable guide would solve this.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I haven't run into any flopping of my cable that bothered me, but the stock routing definitely causes the lower headset cup (Cane Creek) to wear through the cable housing, and the cable housing to wear off all the finish on the lower headset cup with regular riding/steering. I agree with monogod, a slightly different cable guide would solve this.


I've got a flush mounted lower cup so I haven't had any issues.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

vikb said:


> I've got a flush mounted lower cup so I haven't had any issues.


does the cable rub on the lower headtube?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

monogod said:


> does the cable rub on the lower headtube?


No. It touches the edge of the lower headset cup - which started life silver so no damage. There is some marking on the brake hose, but at this rate it would take many years to do any damage and now that I see it I'll wrap some electrical tape around the hose in that spot and avoid that happening.

Thanks for the head's up.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

vikb said:


> I've got a flush mounted lower cup so I haven't had any issues.


That explains it, the profile of the lower CC headset cup really tore up one of my front cable housings.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

vikb said:


> No. It touches the edge of the lower headset cup - which started life silver so no damage. There is some marking on the brake hose, but at this rate it would take many years to do any damage and now that I see it I'll wrap some electrical tape around the hose in that spot and avoid that happening.
> 
> Thanks for the head's up.


nice.

have you always had the inset lower cup? i'm curious because i'd like to know if it handles differently with an external vs. internal cup. granted it's less than a degree of HTA but that can still sometimes make a difference.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Not the best pic, but it shows the cable run in that area. As you can see my bike sees some action so as long as things are functional I am not worried about it looking nice.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

monogod said:


> nice.
> 
> have you always had the inset lower cup? i'm curious because i'd like to know if it handles differently with an external vs. internal cup. granted it's less than a degree of HTA but that can still sometimes make a difference.


This is how my K has been from the start - built up from a frame + fork. Handles great at highspeed on loose gnarly logging roads and I can weave my way through techy sections at slow speed well.

I added some electrical tape to that wear spot since I was in there with the camera .


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> That explains it, the profile of the lower CC headset cup really tore up one of my front cable housings.


if your housing hits your lower cup, your housing is too long, plain and simple.

Mine is too long and it still doesn't hit the lower cup. I just keep it a bit long to make it easy to raise my handlebars without replacing cables.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

PretendGentleman said:


> if your housing hits your lower cup, your housing is too long, plain and simple.
> 
> Mine is too long and it still doesn't hit the lower cup. I just keep it a bit long to make it easy to raise my handlebars without replacing cables.


I can guarantee it's not too long. Shortening the housing would just cause it to hit the headset cup more. Lengthening the housing would actually allow it to go further out to the drive side before rounding off and coming to the lever, thus avoiding the headset cup. But I don't want my cables that long, I typically run them shorter than most riders which is partially why it's hitting the headset cup. The other part is how Surly route the front cable. It's clearly not just me if others are having this trouble as well.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I don't have any closeups, but I took this picture last week. I really wouldn't consider either of my housings to be too long. Adding length to the front housing would allow it to be routed around my headset cup and avoid it, but would cause a lot of flopping around like monogod mentioned. Shortening the housing would cause it to "hug" around the headset cup/headtube even tighter than it already is, speeding up the problem we're having. I really don't understand what you're trying to say...


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

I live in the part of Georgia getting hit by an ice storm. Just got back from a 2 hr ride in it. I've ridden in plenty of sleet and slush, but this was unreal weather mostly raining, but it freezes on you. The ground looks like it's got 2" of snow, but it's all hard slushy stuff-you sink in a little. less traction than any normal riding conditions, but still rideable.

Rain at 28F is really strange. camelback had maybe 1/8" of ice all over it. 1/4" of ice on my bars. 2" of ice on my bb. tires stayed clean. 

My krampus was good on the slushier stuff, but at the end of the ride as the ground was freezing harder. I was riding with a few cat 1 roadies who ride mtb regular a lot. I was the only one who made it more than 30' up a 120 yard, steep climb and I made it all the way, though I spun out on every single pedal stroke and couldn't stand at all, which is not how I usually climb this hill. 

The rain picks up and it gets colder at the end of the ride, so wherever is paved and not frequently driven on, the 2" ice slush that your tires can bite 1/4" into turns into solid ice and the krampus slides more than people with regular 2.25 tires. I fell several times when nobody else did. 

I'm hoping I don't have to work tomorrow and my wife is ok with me going out again. We might actually get some soft snow on top of this stuff over night. 

Seriously, weirdest weather. some gutters are full of water with ice on top in many places because the ground is still warm. rain is falling from a higher, warm tropical layer through a cold layer by the ground. At times it's sleeting where the water freezes before hitting the ground-little ice crystals that burn your face (and really hurt your eyes(I wore safety goggles since I felt it riding home from the shop in sleet yesterday)) when not under tree cover. At other times, moments later and randomly switching, the precipitation is completely wet and freezes nearly on impact on your jacket, gloves, bike, etc.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Pretty sure I haven't changed my routing since I picked it up as a complete from my LBS.
I don't use the upper rear cable guide, and just run it through the fork from the front. works fine.


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## Vincentg (Sep 24, 2008)

Hey, does anybody have experience transporting a Krampus with a Saris CycleOn? Will it work?


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## Radioinactive (Aug 2, 2011)

need advice on if the knard can fit on my frame that has a yoke of 3.25" on a 29.6 inner diamter rim, read this thread for more details and pics thanks so much http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/will-surly-knard-fit-frame-rim-all-advice-welcome-899282.html


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

just received my frame 









I have a question about the headset, is this the good reference?

up : ZS44/28,6
bottom : EC44/30

?

can't find any headset complete :s

thanks for your help...


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## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

jos_2001 said:


> just received my frame
> 
> View attachment 871101
> 
> ...


CK makes a complete headset. I am using one on my Krampus.


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

ok
thank you Tripower


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

jos_2001 said:


> can't find any headset complete


ck makes both an external and internal cup 44mm headset.

i went with the EC.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I used this one, less than half the cost of a CK:

Universal Cycles -- Cane Creek 40-Series ZS44 Headset - Black



jos_2001 said:


> just received my frame
> 
> I have a question about the headset, is this the good reference?
> 
> ...


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## USMCbiker (Jan 25, 2014)

Chris king inset 7, and like above mentioned the cane creek zs44.

Sent from my RM-860_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

thanks all!


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## mowabb (Dec 9, 2011)




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## Xandor (Aug 24, 2010)

I think this is the best place to ask this question. I've been wanting to get a krampus for quite a while and have the chance to buy used one. It's stock except for some salsa bars and has less than 50 miles on it. The guy wants $1200 for it, is that a reasonable price? I haven't seen any used krampus come up near me to compare the price. Thanks.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Xandor said:


> I think this is the best place to ask this question. I've been wanting to get a krampus for quite a while and have the chance to buy used one. It's stock except for some salsa bars and has less than 50 miles on it. The guy wants $1200 for it, is that a reasonable price? I haven't seen any used krampus come up near me to compare the price. Thanks.


Not a bad price at all IMO. You'd be spending $1950 +tax for a brand new one. Depending on what/where you ride, 50 miles could only be a ride or two, so it's not like a big chunk of the bike's or component's lifespan has been used up. The frame, rims and 27tpi tires at retail pricing alone is going to be $1200 +tax if you decided to go custom. If it fits and you want it, get it.


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## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

And if it doesn't fit you, I'll take it. If it be a large. 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

$1200 sounds like a fantastic deal, IMO. Do it.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Xandor said:


> I think this is the best place to ask this question. I've been wanting to get a krampus for quite a while and have the chance to buy used one. It's stock except for some salsa bars and has less than 50 miles on it. The guy wants $1200 for it, is that a reasonable price? I haven't seen any used krampus come up near me to compare the price. Thanks.


better buy it quick before someone else does. that's a smoking deal.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

So do I just post in this thread when I want to sell my Krampus?


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

deleted due to lack of relevance... :madman:


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

Yup. that's a solid deal. Got mine on ebay for $1400 in January. it is nice shape (27 tpi knards with nubs), stock except a saddle upgrade and well-worn platform eggbeaters. Love blasting off piles of snow with it. Come on spring. This bike will probably be the end of me.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

i am a little concerned i got too large of a frame. i like the ETT but think my legs will be a little on the short side. guess i will have to get some real rides in to figure out whats up.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

boogar73 said:


> i am a little concerned i got too large of a frame. i like the ETT but think my legs will be a little on the short side. guess i will have to get some real rides in to figure out whats up.


What size did you end up with? How tall are you?


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

Gouda Cheez said:


> What size did you end up with? How tall are you?


Got a medium, 5'11", 30.5" inseam, long torso and 6'2" wingspan... an albino orangutan. Think the stem is 70mm


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

That seems like it wouldn't be TOO awful. I'm 6'1" with a 34" (or so) inseam and I'm on a large... quite comfortably. What's your concern with yours?


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

boogar73 said:


> Got a medium, 5'11", 30.5" inseam, long torso and 6'2" wingspan... an albino orangutan. Think the stem is 70mm


Put a 100 or 110mm stem on it and pedal hard and you'll have a super fun and fast cross country bike. I'm 5'8" and ride a small with a 105mm stem and love it for everything except steep steep down, which I felt more confident on with my medium (same ett as small krampus) 4"travel 29 hardtail. could also be that I'm a wuss on downhills now that I have a baby.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

Thanks for feedback!


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

PretendGentleman said:


> Put a 100 or 110mm stem on it and pedal hard and you'll have a super fun and fast cross country bike. I'm 5'8" and ride a small with a 105mm stem and love it for everything except steep steep down, which I felt more confident on with my medium (same ett as small krampus) 4"travel 29 hardtail. could also be that I'm a wuss on downhills now that I have a baby.


Have not had a good opportunity to get proper ride in due to $!! $#[email protected]*&- $&#&&/^ worst winter evar... but I feel like my 26"- 17" frame fs I could throw around. I am going to flog this ride my first opportunity. Wont a 100-110mm get my weight too far forward?


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

boogar73 said:


> Have not had a good opportunity to get proper ride in due to $!! $#[email protected]*&- $&#&&/^ worst winter evar... but I feel like my 26"- 17" frame fs I could throw around. I am going to flog this ride my first opportunity. Wont a 100-110mm get my weight too far forward?


just keep it in mind. too much weight on the rear tire will wash it out in turns. I'm always leaning hard on my hands in fast flowing turns when I don't need to use brakes so I keep traction up front.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

Gouda Cheez said:


> That seems like it wouldn't be TOO awful. I'm 6'1" with a 34" (or so) inseam and I'm on a large... quite comfortably. What's your concern with yours?


That's good to know. My concern is just that i wont have that maneuverability / control on a small frame. I can adjust, I think. I thought a small would be too cramped for me. My 17" fs bike was too small.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

boogar73 said:


> That's good to know. My concern is just that i wont have that maneuverability / control on a small frame. I can adjust, I think. I thought a small would be too cramped for me. My 17" fs bike was too small.


Only downside is that everyone is different.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Only downside is that everyone is different.


:thumbup::beer: I am going nuts waiting for the thaw...


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

PretendGentleman said:


> Put a 100 or 110mm stem on it and pedal hard and you'll have a super fun and fast cross country bike. I'm 5'8" and ride a small with a 105mm stem and love it for everything except steep steep down, which I felt more confident on with my medium (same ett as small krampus) 4"travel 29 hardtail. could also be that I'm a wuss on downhills now that I have a baby.


After that baby starts talking and figuring out what's what, you'll bomb everything (says a dad of 3). Jk. They rule!


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

boogar73 said:


> :thumbup::beer: I am going nuts waiting for the thaw...


I wouldn't know a thing about that.


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## hardly_stuntworthy (Sep 4, 2007)

Well I finally updated my newly aquired 2013 runout sale Krampus, it had a mix of SLX and stuff which was nice but I had my own interpretation on how it should look. So I updated a few of the components and went for a bit of a different look with it.

Changed rear derailleur for a Zee short cage
Changed stem for a Ritchey White world cup
Changed Handlebars for Azonic 864's
Changed to Shimano XT brakes and Jagwire Lines
Changed to XT shifter
Changed to Jagwire cable
Changed seatpost to a thudbuster
Changed seat to a Dabomb
Changed seatpost clamp to a Hope
Changed the rim strips to white
Upgraded brake disc's to Shimano's.

So far pretty good, a race face narrow wide chainring will be next on the cards though...


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

How do you like that Zee Derailleur? I've been thinking of ditching my SLX for one solely based on the fact it's a short cage.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

anybody riding without a chainguide or using a different chainguide than the MRP that comes on the complete bike? (1x10)


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

boogar73 said:


> anybody riding without a chainguide or using a different chainguide than the MRP that comes on the complete bike? (1x10)


no chainguide in 1x10 mode. mrp bling ring with xo type 2 der.


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## NM520 (Mar 16, 2008)

No chain guide here either. Bought a stock Krampus, swapped in a Raceface NW 30 T chainring. Never dropped the chain, and rarely even hear it hit the chain stay w/ the Shadow +.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

boogar73 said:


> anybody riding without a chainguide or using a different chainguide than the MRP that comes on the complete bike? (1x10)


No chain guide here either. Mostly stock drivetrain setup still. For whatever reason, my complete didn't come with a chain guide (probably thanks to the LBS that sold it to me). I've never dropped a chain.... ever. Even swapped from a 36T to a 32T chainring.... still never dropped anything.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

NM520 said:


> No chain guide here either. Bought a stock Krampus, swapped in a Raceface NW 30 T chainring. Never dropped the chain, and rarely even hear it hit the chain stay w/ the Shadow +.


Wish I could say the same... I think I need to shorten my chain by a link or two. I get a lot of slap when I am bombing down a rocky hill.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Looks like the Krampus is going flat black  and getting vertical dropouts :thumbsup:


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Wish I could say the same... I think I need to shorten my chain by a link or two. I get a lot of slap when I am bombing down a rocky hill.


clutch rear der.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

I don't know why Surly doesn't drop the PIA MRP chainkeeper, and spend the extra money on wide/narrow chainring. That's what I've done with my stock krampus, and have had no issues with dropped chains.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

monogod said:


> clutch rear der.


Isn't the SLX rear derailleur with dynasys a clutch derailleur? Noob question, I know.


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## Iamrockandroll13 (Feb 10, 2013)

renegade44 said:


> I don't know why Surly doesn't drop the PIA MRP chainkeeper, and spend the extra money on wide/narrow chainring. That's what I've done with my stock krampus, and have had no issues with dropped chains.


actually a Narrow Wide is cheaper. Those MRP chainguides retail for around $100.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Iamrockandroll13 said:


> actually a Narrow Wide is cheaper. Those MRP chainguides retail for around $100.


Not quite that bad, the bb mount ones cost around $50 retail.
Mountain Racing Products home of MRP, White Brothers, Kreitler, Tamer, and Power Grips | Shop

MRP 1x 32-40t Guide BB Mount Black from ModernBike.com


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Isn't the SLX rear derailleur with dynasys a clutch derailleur? Noob question, I know.


is the stabilizer switch on?


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

First thing I checked


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

before you shorten it, check it to make sure it's the correct length.

with the chain NOT running through the der put it on the largest cog in the back and bring the ends together.

it should look like this:


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Looks like the Krampus is going flat black  and getting vertical dropouts :thumbsup:


Stays definitely look longer


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

rjedoaks said:


> Stays definitely look longer


It probably has Monkey Nutz in the dropouts for Frostbike.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

monogod said:


> before you shorten it, check it to make sure it's the correct length.
> 
> with the chain NOT running through the der put it on the largest cog in the back and bring the ends together.
> 
> it should look like this:


That was the next thing to check. The picture really helps. Thank you!


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> It probably has Monkey Nutz in the dropouts for Frostbike.


Vertical drops


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## the KING (Oct 8, 2005)

My new Krampus weight 10,5 kg


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## Truman#1 (Aug 19, 2013)

rjedoaks said:


> Stays definitely look longer


I don't care for the black much. The sparkle green made it unique. Love mine!


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Eddiecycle said:


> Vertical drops


Derp! I'm an idiot :lol: I even posted the original link :madman:


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Chainstay length is the same on both Krampi, according to Surly.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

Actually the dropouts appear to be variable with the MDS (Modular Dropout System) so it could be either horizontal or vertical..


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Alex.C said:


> Actually the dropouts appear to be variable with the MDS (Modular Dropout System) so it could be either horizontal or vertical..


I'm assuming they've got the 135x10 or vertical dropouts in since the bike has a derailleur, probably trying to show the new features off. I was posting quickly from my phone when I mentioned Monkey Nutz, my mistake


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Called a local LBS about trading in my Krampus and using it to put money down on a new bike - they offered $625. Wow. I expected low but not THAT low.


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Called a local LBS about trading in my Krampus and using it to put money down on a new bike - they offered $625. Wow. I expected low but not THAT low.


Did you buy it from them? If so, that's pretty uncool.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Called a local LBS about trading in my Krampus and using it to put money down on a new bike - they offered $625. Wow. I expected low but not THAT low.


That is too bad. I think you could do better on ebay or a local advert. What size? Maybe sell the rh's and knards separately.


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## Truman#1 (Aug 19, 2013)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Called a local LBS about trading in my Krampus and using it to put money down on a new bike - they offered $625. Wow. I expected low but not THAT low.


That really tells me that they are not interested in a trade of any kind. I sure woouldn't take that kind of loss on the bike. Just curious, what are you looking to buy?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Called a local LBS about trading in my Krampus and using it to put money down on a new bike - they offered $625. Wow. I expected low but not THAT low.


I wanted to sell an epicly pimped out mint low mileage LHT at a LBS and I was offered $700CDN. Resale sucks at a LBS.

You can sell for much more on CL or Ebay if you are in US.


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## Eddiecycle (Jun 25, 2009)

For a shop to resell your bike, they're gonna need to tune it up and replace any worn parts to get it up to their standards, then they're investing floorspace and employee time and expertise to get the bike out the door. All that adds up to a significant investment on their part. If you bought the bike from them, they are usually more likely to take a small hit or break even to help out a good customer, but if you don't have an established relationship, they're generally gonna want to make sure they get the bike for a price that makes the whole process worth their while. That being said, $625 is still pretty low and I suspect that shop doesn't think they'll be able to move a Krampus.


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## fatlip11 (Aug 24, 2011)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Called a local LBS about trading in my Krampus and using it to put money down on a new bike - they offered $625. Wow. I expected low but not THAT low.


Where are you located and what size is the frame? Would you be willing to ship? I have a friend that is looking for a Krampus.


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

Shops, and even Pawn shops tend to look for big markup, like double what they pay markup for this type of thing....so thinking that a shop would sell a used Krampus for 1200 to 1400, that seems about right........


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

see if they sell on consignment.

we sell customer's bikes for about 20% of selling price, or buy it outright for 40-50% of its value.

if you need the cash quick, sell it on craigslist or fleabay.


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## crackerdog (Dec 18, 2011)

That is not a BIG markup. The standard for stores is 100% markup for craft/art items I sell and I don't see any of those stores getting rich off that markup. So it seems about right. They have to pay for rent, payroll, water, electricity, etc. I have always felt the stores have the harder job than I do as a manufacturer. I don't begrudge them a living.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Isn't the SLX rear derailleur with dynasys a clutch derailleur? Noob question, I know.


yeah it is. i was playing around with it last night. I assume the on/off lever on the derailleur is for the clutch.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

:thumbsup:


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Wow, my talks of trading in have caused a wake in here. I was inquiring with the LBS just to see. I would most definitely sell locally on Craigslist or eBay before I gave into that kind of situation


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

fatlip11 said:


> Where are you located and what size is the frame? Would you be willing to ship? I have a friend that is looking for a Krampus.


You can PM me if you'd like to chat. Much easier to do that.

And to whoever asked... I really want an Instigator.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Safest course is just not to give in.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

vikb said:


> Safest course is just not to give in.


 You're probably right!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've been travelling so not 100% up to date, but it sounds like my Krampus and Pugs are history in their current formats. I love it. Makes 'em special. Can't replace them now.


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## Hootbmx (Feb 20, 2012)

I'm a new Krampus owner and would like to try a Fox fork down the road. Wondering if the hub can be converted to a 15mm thru axle or if I'm gonna have to rebuild the wheel with a different hub. 

Forgive me if this has already been discussed but I searched and couldn't find anything on it.


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Looks like the Krampus is going flat black  and getting vertical dropouts :thumbsup:


Surly updated the site with the Krampus Ops "Coming Soon" (April). Looks like the complete will still be 1x10, but have 33T OD cranks. I thought the ODs were all double ring...maybe the single 33 will become an availble option.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

Took my krampus out to the local singletrack after little dusting of snow. There are a lot of fun berms there and at first i was little sketched to hit with any speed but that went away after the first berm. I was grinning like a simp real quick.

I found myself a little gassed - not the strongest, fittest - and want to try and smaller chainring. I currently have a 34T. Should i drop to a 32 or 30? will it make that much difference? For you guys using the race face NW chainring with the Zee cranks, will something like this work. Does anyone have a specific part number?


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## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

I wonder if the ops has that protective ed coating inside the tubes.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

edge said:


> I wonder if the ops has that protective ed coating inside the tubes.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


Does the 2013?


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## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

Nope

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

vikb said:


> I've been travelling so not 100% up to date, but it sounds like my Krampus and Pugs are history in their current formats. I love it. Makes 'em special. Can't replace them now.


I haven't seen anything indicating current Krampus will be discontinued. Since the new design has a special name "Ops", I'd guess they'd keep both in the lineup. That's only a guess though.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

renegade44 said:


> I haven't seen anything indicating current Krampus will be discontinued. Since the new design has a special name "Ops", I'd guess they'd keep both in the lineup. That's only a guess though.


This is true.


----------



## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Is anybody planning on swapping their Krampus frameset for a Krampus Ops frameset? Reasons?

I like that Surly is keeping both available, but I think time will eventually push the original Krampus frameset out of the picture or turn it into a single speed complete bike and keep the Ops frameset for the geared complete.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Is anybody planning on swapping their Krampus frameset for a Krampus Ops frameset? Reasons?
> 
> I like that Surly is keeping both available, but I think time will eventually push the original Krampus frameset out of the picture or turn it into a single speed complete bike and keep the Ops frameset for the geared complete.


If the new dropouts can be had in a SS/IGH config I can't see any reason why they would bother making/stocking two different versions of the frame.

I'm planning on keeping mine as is.

I've had moments of weakness for the idea of a custom 29+ frame, but common sense has prevailed and my Visa card remains unscathed.


----------



## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

vikb said:


> If the new dropouts can be had in a SS/IGH config I can't see any reason why they would bother making/stocking two different versions of the frame.
> 
> I'm planning on keeping mine as is.
> 
> I've had moments of weakness for the idea of a custom 29+ frame, but common sense has prevailed and my Visa card remains unscathed.


I could see a SS Krampus complete and 1x10 Krampus Ops complete in the future, like what they are doing with the Karate Monkey this year. They're also offering an Ops and SS Pugsley now, and have had a SS Cross Check and geared Cross Check for sale separately in the past. I wouldn't put it past them, but I do agree it would be a wise choice to keep the MDS versions of each frameset only.

I've considered a new Krampus Ops frameset for the ease of rear wheel removal and versatility. Since I've built my fixed specific rear wheel I see myself changing between 1x10 and FG a few times a year. The new dropouts would make that easier IMO, to have a specific dropout for each configuration.

But in the end, I'll probably end up keeping my frameset, the flat black ruins it for me :thumbsup:


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I could see a SS Krampus complete and 1x10 Krampus Ops complete in the future, like what they are doing with the Karate Monkey this year. They're also offering an Ops and SS Pugsley now, and have had a SS Cross Check and geared Cross Check for sale separately in the past. I wouldn't put it past them, but I do agree it would be a wise choice to keep the MDS versions of each frameset only.


+1 - on the different builds/colours with one base frame. That makes loads of sense.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

So I've given up on the 29+ Dirt Wizards for this year. Sounds like they are coming late and when looking at the likely weights vs. my need for a knobby tire I think I'll stick with the Knards.

That means two fun projects for this year:

#1 - tubeless Knard + RH using split tubes

#2 - Dremeling my Reba to fit Knards on RHs


----------



## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

vikb said:


> So I've given up on the 29+ Dirt Wizards for this year. Sounds like they are coming late and when looking at the likely weights vs. my need for a knobby tire I think I'll stick with the Knards.
> 
> That means two fun projects for this year:
> 
> ...


When you gonna start?


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## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

I have a krampus frameset w/cking headset on the way. I don't have the money to build a velocity wheel set right now, so I'm thinking about putting some tubeless schwalbe 2.4 racing Ralph's on my rhino lite/surly singlespeed wheels for now. Anybody running 2.4s on a krampus? 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> When you gonna start?


I'll probably do Reba first. I'm feeling like living dangerously!

We have a lot of storm related blowdown on our trails so I'm going to be spending lots of time cutting & moving trees. And then be tired afterwards.

I'll put all the tools and parts in one spot so that next rain day I just need to add a 6 pack of beer to fuel the process. 

I'd like to get the fork done in the next 2-3 weeks. My first tour is in 3 weeks and it will likely be sloppy so it would be ideal to have the Reba done before I go and then install it when I get back.

I need to score some tubes to split so I'll get on that now and do the tubeless setup after the Reba - so end of the month.

The touring will really get going in April so I'd like the Krampus all tarted up for then.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

vikb said:


> I'll probably do Reba first. I'm feeling like living dangerously!
> 
> We have a lot of storm related blowdown on our trails so I'm going to be spending lots of time cutting & moving trees. And then be tired afterwards.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a plan, I'm looking forward to both projects, and I'm ready for suspension on my Krampus! I'm probably going to wait for DWs and go tubeless then. My lightweight tubes with Stan's in them have been flawless at stopping flats, and still weighed less than the stock tubes. I was getting way too many flats at first and was cautious about how split tube ghetto tubeless would hold up with how and where I ride.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

vikb said:


> That means two fun projects for this year:
> 
> #1 - tubeless Knard + RH using split tubes


i converted mine with one wrap of 2" gorilla tape. it fits the RH spoke bed perfectly and took about 4 minutes per wheel total to wrap and install valve stem.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

^^ Same here. It's been as reliable as the Flows on my other bike.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Was the question about the front hub being able to convert to 20mm ever answered? May have not this thread, can't remember.


----------



## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

Hootbmx said:


> I'm a new Krampus owner and would like to try a Fox fork down the road. Wondering if the hub can be converted to a 15mm thru axle or if I'm gonna have to rebuild the wheel with a different hub.
> 
> Forgive me if this has already been discussed but I searched and couldn't find anything on it.


No, the stock Surly hubs are not convertible. The easiest thing to do would be to just buy a squishy fork with a 9mm QR. If you want to use a 15 or 20 mm TA fork you'll have to buy the applicable front hub and rebuild the wheel.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Thanks


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

I wanted to run a rigid fork some days and suspension some days so I went with a 15mm through axle fork (Trace) and kept my stock Krampus fork. I didn't want to have two front wheels/tires etc, I'm trying to reduce my bike footprint. I replaced my 9mm QR hub with a 15mm through axle hub and an adapter for the rigid fork. One wheel, one hub, one tire. And if I'm ever rich enough, I can buy a sexy Whiskey #9 carbon fiber fork without having to mess with my wheels.

I did buy an extra caliper/cable for the extra fork, I can switch forks in ~5mins.

Long story short, from now on, all my front hubs will be 15mm with a 9mm adapter. That way I can run the hub on either fork standard. In another 5 years 9mm will be gone due to liability issues and I won't be stuck.


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

belgian rain melted my krampus


----------



## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Has anybody compared a krampus with 10mm thru axle to conventional qr? especially if it's a comparison where everything else is the same. Any stiffer?


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

found!


----------



## TSOXBHK (Jan 17, 2012)

I think next years krampus will have the same drop outs as the instigator.


----------



## fotu (Jan 20, 2005)

jos_2001 said:


> found!
> 
> View attachment 873399


Nice! Well done.


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

monogod said:


> before you shorten it, check it to make sure it's the correct length.
> 
> with the chain NOT running through the der put it on the largest cog in the back and bring the ends together.
> 
> it should look like this:


Wanted to thank monogod again for posting this. I ended up removing a couple links from my chain thanks to this. We will see if that helps eliminate some slap.


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## NickyTee (Oct 19, 2004)

Since I've also gotten quietly caught up in the how-to-fit-low-gears-to-a-1x10, here's my current setup.

- The 30T RaceFace NarrowWide chainring went on easily enough, once I'd dug out some suitable length bolts from the spares bin.

- The cassette started out as an XT 11-36T, now it's 13-42T. I've added the OneUp Components cog, no problems there. Rather than lose the 17T, I've taken out the 11T and used a larger Token alloy lockring to hold everything in place. Before the you-need-an-11T-to-get-a-big-spread-of-gears police arrive, I'm perfectly happy with the spread of gears as they are, thanks.

- I'm using a Shimano Zee wide ratio rear derailleur. The B-tension screw is turned-out 1.5 turns from full-in, with the plastic part still under the screw head.

- Chain tension: setting the chain tension with as many links as possible on the 13T worked fine on the 42T, too. I just pulled the chain tight, until the derailleur's arm was under (what I consider to be) the minimum pressure possible to keep the chain from slapping around.

So far, I've only given it a quick spin around the block, just to make sure everything runs smoothly and nothing was going to fall off. Shifting into the 42T sprocket was smooth enough, maybe just a little more "push" required over shifting further down the block. Cranking hard on the 13T, no problem there, either. A few heavy-handed bunnyhops, no noticeable chainslap.

I'll rack up at least 50 miles over the weekend, so I'll try to remember to report back!


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Digging that frame! The setup looks great too. Amazing how little the 30T looks with those XT cranks.


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## NickyTee (Oct 19, 2004)

Thanks, I appreciate it.

The cranks are 180mm, so yes, the 30T looks tiny. Looks like a BMX micro-drive, until you see the cassette!


----------



## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

How difficult was it to modify the cassette like that? I've never looked into it.


----------



## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Gouda Cheez said:


> How difficult was it to modify the cassette like that? I've never looked into it.


easy. linky


----------



## NickyTee (Oct 19, 2004)

It was very easy. Just remove the lockring, pull the cassette off, clean everything. Then follow the instructions at OneUp Components - Instructions.

Instead of taking out the 17T, I left off the 11T instead. For me, losing the 17T would give too big a jump between gears. I've never used the 11T, so it's an obvious candidate. Worth noting that OneUp specifically say not to do this, but we'll see how it works out. The bigger lockring looks to be doing it's job, you need this because the 11T lockring is too small for the 13T. The gears function really well, so on the basis of a test-ride, I'm happy.

I'm planning a 25 mile ride on Saturday, 32 miles on Sunday. That'll make any problems pretty clear!


----------



## fatlip11 (Aug 24, 2011)

jos_2001 said:


> found!
> 
> View attachment 873399


Yep... That is awesome!


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

NickyTee said:


> It was very easy. Just remove the lockring, pull the cassette off, clean everything. Then follow the instructions at OneUp Components - Instructions.
> 
> Instead of taking out the 17T, I left off the 11T instead. For me, losing the 17T would give too big a jump between gears. I've never used the 11T, so it's an obvious candidate. Worth noting that OneUp specifically say not to do this, but we'll see how it works out. The bigger lockring looks to be doing it's job, you need this because the 11T lockring is too small for the 13T. The gears function really well, so on the basis of a test-ride, I'm happy.
> 
> I'm planning a 25 mile ride on Saturday, 32 miles on Sunday. That'll make any problems pretty clear!


I would probably do the same thing as you. I don't think I've ever shifted into the smallest cog unless you count when the bike is on the work stand


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## 1x1clyde (Oct 5, 2005)

yes!

Taipei Cycle Show First Look: Maxxis Mammoth and Chronicle Fat Bike and 29+ Tires


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

1x1clyde said:


> yes!
> 
> Taipei Cycle Show First Look: Maxxis Mammoth and Chronicle Fat Bike and 29+ Tires


sweet!

want these:


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

Interesting the Chronicle looks like a slightly more aggressive options than the Knard without going skinnier but chunkier like the Dirt Wizard.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

1x1clyde said:


> yes!
> 
> Taipei Cycle Show First Look: Maxxis Mammoth and Chronicle Fat Bike and 29+ Tires


Article claims it'll be here this fall, it's a race, Surly vs Maxxis! I love Maxxis tires, I doubt I'll bother with the dickweed now that a real player is in the game.


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## frozenmonkey (Apr 30, 2012)

Mammoth Looks like the love child of an Ardent-Endo-HuDu gangbang, if I may.

Chronicle come to Papa!! Oh thy Krampus will wear thee well.


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## 1x1clyde (Oct 5, 2005)

I like the Knard but excited to get some side grip!


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

Following a tendonitis knee issue, finally close to riding again


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I ordered another bike frame to start building. I'm thinking of turning my Krampus into a singlespeed. Thoughts?


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Gouda Cheez said:


> I ordered another bike frame to start building. I'm thinking of turning my Krampus into a singlespeed. Thoughts?


approved! :thumbsup:


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I was originally planning on selling the Krampus... but I figure I could turn it into an 'around town' fun bike instead. Hopefully my wife will approve.


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

got a new Brooks saddle.... it's super comfy














Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

love the cambium! have one on order. 

how about a ride report?


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

Gouda Cheez said:


> I was originally planning on selling the Krampus... but I figure I could turn it into an 'around town' fun bike instead. Hopefully my wife will approve.


Let me know how that goes for you


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

It'll go alright... assuming I can find room in my garage to keep the bikes


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

monogod said:


> love the cambium! have one on order.
> 
> how about a ride report?


it's awesome... I've always loved Brooks but the rivets wear out my pants... this one has different rivets and it's actually more comfortable than the standard Brooks... and it's light and waterproof....

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

you can see the way the rivets are here.... oh and it looks awesome 








Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## NickyTee (Oct 19, 2004)

*My OneComponents setup*



NickyTee said:


> I'll rack up at least 50 miles over the weekend, so I'll try to remember to report back!


Quick update on my OneComponents setup - it all worked flawlessly. Range of gears was enough for two group rides on rolling terrain, so the 13T is plenty for me on pedally downhills. So nice to have a proper low gear for climbing those short, sharp ascents. Checked the Hope freehub body, it seems fine at the 42T, just previous marks from the 17T. No dropped chains, either


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

Here's my Krampus. 
Size L bought complete, but been tweaking:
-Carver XC 470 carbon fork
-Zipp Service Course SL stem 6 deg 90mm
-3T Extendo Team Stealth carbon bar 12 deg 740mm 
-ODI Rogue grips
-Easton EC70 Offset carbon seatpost
-WTB Pure Pro saddle
-Race Face Turbine cranks 175mm
-Race Face Narrow / Wide single ring 34T
-45NRTH Heiruspecs pedals
-Knard 120tpi tire
-Conti MTB 26 Light tubes 26 x 1.75>2.5
Stock was over 32 pounds. Now down under 28.
I f***ing love this bike. First bike I've bought since my '95 Kona (that is finally being retired). How times have changed! Just got it a couple of months ago so I've only ridden (a lot of) snow and pavement thus far. Now the long, slow, painful wait for dry trails begins&#8230;


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## USMCbiker (Jan 25, 2014)

kdb71 said:


> View attachment 875929
> 
> 
> Here's my Krampus.
> ...


nice setup!

Sent from my Nokia Lumia Icon


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## cansado (May 11, 2009)

digthemlows said:


> got a new Brooks saddle.... it's super comfy
> View attachment 875217
> View attachment 875218
> 
> ...


Best looking Krampus I've seen


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## SourWortBrewer (Jul 11, 2013)

Nice Krampi Guys!!

I'm thinking of pulling trigger on one and wondering if anyone on here is in the Philly Area and would let me throw a leg over it. I will pay you in Beer! 
Cheers,
Matt


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## frozenmonkey (Apr 30, 2012)

Hey digthemlows...what bars are those? Width?


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

well, I'm tall....so they're Atomlab Pimplite 3" rise 29.5 width. They work perfect with me being 6'7" .....


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

digthemlows said:


> well, I'm tall....so they're Atomlab Pimplite 3" rise 29.5 width. They work perfect with me being 6'7" .....


Ahhh...that makes sense. I'm 6'3" and that seat height / steerer stack / bar combo looks like it's set up for a giant. Turns out that it is.

Here's a You Tube video I made a couple weeks after I got my Krampus to show some friends the joys of snow riding:

Krampus Snow Ride Harbin Park 01 25 14 - YouTube

It was only my 3rd time in the snow and first time on that trail. About 4-5" of fresh snow with no tracks when I started. Just messing around with the GoPro and video editing (check the dorky slo-mo!).


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## WyldStallyn (Jun 5, 2013)

digthemlows said:


> got a new Brooks saddle.... it's super comfy
> View attachment 875217
> View attachment 875218
> 
> ...


That Cambium looks tasty. How does it compare to a broken in leather Brooks?


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## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

updated pic of mine, was at the end of the ride, seat had moved, bolts need a tweak, got round to fitting the King Inset 7 and Moots Cinch Post/MTB Stem, another set of bar plugs fell out as well, must be something with the Thomson Ti bars,

its a fast bike, have a 32t ring to fit, up from the 28t,


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## tirsintarsi (Feb 17, 2014)

danridesbikes said:


> updated pic of mine .. got round to fitting the King Inset 7 [/IMG][/URL]


I'm little confused... If I am right the Krampus fork is 1 1/8", not tapered?
The CK Inset 7 is for tapered (1,5" lower part) forks. So Inset 1 should be the exact choice?
Did you just want the external cup to the lowerpart of headtube?

Is there some ready conversion kit for that?

Sorry for asking so many questions...


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

What you need is a zero stack for the upper and an external bottom . 
Not sure how the King comes, but with a Cane Creek I had to purchase a reducer for the bottom race


Pedaling


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## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

yes Surly recommend external lower and zs upper,

i have a devolution base plate fitted

means this will slide straight in

Spy Shot! Prototype ENVE Carbon Rigid 29er Mountain Bike Fork


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

danridesbikes said:


> yes Surly recommend external lower and zs upper,
> 
> i have a devolution base plate fitted
> 
> ...


yummy! hope it will see production soon.

fwiw, the whiskey/spot fork fits too - and is already on the market...


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## DerBergschreck (Dec 27, 2009)

Here is my Krampus custom build powder coated in purple red mat. Rims are Velocity Dually, Brakes Avid BB7 MTN S and 1x10 ZEE drivetrain.


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## tirsintarsi (Feb 17, 2014)

Hope this still look right after posting...
When I lottered my Krampus frame size I compared data what I found from the this forum.
I think it should help someone.
Please tell if this is not appropriate to publish. 

Frame size___Height___Inseam 
XL__________ 6'2" ____ 36"
XL__________ 6'7" ____ -

L __________ 5'11" ____ 32"
L __________ 6' ______ 32"
L __________ 6' ______ 34"
L __________ 6'1" ____ 34"
L __________ 6'1" ____ 32"
L __________ 6'2" ____ 34"
L __________ 6'3" ____ 34"

M __________ 5'7" ____ -
M __________ 5'9" ____ 31.5"
M __________ 5'9" ____ 30"
M __________ 5'9" ____ 33"
M __________ 5'11" ___ 30"
M __________ 5'11" ___ 30.5"
M __________ 5'11" ___ 33"

S __________ 5'7" ____ 29"
S __________ 5'8" ____ 31"
S __________ 5'8" ____ 31.5"

Edit: spaces seems to disappear so change them to underline

And thanks for answers for the question about headset, I get it now.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

That's a good list. Probably good to clarify if inseam is pants inseam or pubic bone height.

Me: XL, 6'3", 36" PBH.



tirsintarsi said:


> Hope this still look right after posting...
> When I lottered my Krampus frame size I compared data what I found from the this forum.
> I think it should help someone.
> Please tell if this is not appropriate to publish.
> ...


----------



## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

I am 6'3" with 36" pants inseam (I'll have to ask my tailor to measure my pubic bone sometime) and I ride a L.

Those ENVE forks are interesting. Integrated mudflap is a bit odd...

The Whiskey / Spot forks are sharp, but I really like my Carver and it was hundreds less. No branding on it whatsoever which I also kinda dig. 

I swapped out from stock fork so I had to do the opposite of above and get a 1.5 external lower to replace the 1 1/8 on the Cane Creek that came on the complete.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

kdb71 said:


> ...I swapped out from stock fork so I had to do the opposite of above and get a 1.5 external lower to replace the 1 1/8 on the Cane Creek that came on the complete.


I just bought a new lower bearing race and kept the stock cup/bearing in the frame. As a benefit, I can swap between either fork with about 5 minutes labor.

Universal Cycles -- Cane Creek Crown Races

110 & 40 Series Steel 1.5" Crown Race (52/40)
Mfg#:	BAA0173A 
UPC:	840226101644 
EAN:	840226101644


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## cr45h (Jan 13, 2007)

deuxdiesel said:


> I just finished my 4th (and probably final) SS race on my Krampus, and while it is the most fun bike I have owned, it is really hard to overcome the inertia the huge tires have on twisty and punchy trails. I love it as a play bike, but for me, it doesn't work as well as a regular 29er in SS mode. Anyone else have feedback on their SS Krampus?


interesting, thanks for sharing. if i were getting one, it would be ss and i would probably race it at some point. was curious as to the ride quality on twisty singletrack. thanks for sharing your experience


----------



## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

cr45h said:


> interesting, thanks for sharing. if i were getting one, it would be ss and i would probably race it at some point. was curious as to the ride quality on twisty singletrack. thanks for sharing your experience


 I'm building one now and will start running 28mm rims that I already have, 2.4 vee mission tires and SS gearing. Just to see if that's enough cush. Running gears is not an option..

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

cr45h said:


> interesting, thanks for sharing. if i were getting one, it would be ss and i would probably race it at some point. was curious as to the ride quality on twisty singletrack. thanks for sharing your experience


I don't ride SS but on twisty singletrack, it's fast as hell. You just have to put the tires to use and forego braking. When you do have to slow down, sure enough there's the cost of re-accelerating, but there's always a trail that is a poor match for any bike. If I were a lot taller and had more trouble hitting trees from leaning into curves, maybe I'd need to slow down more and would prefer low inertia wheels.


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

here's mine, from Belgium

31.30 Lb (without flask )














































and a pic of my little family










other details on my flickr


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Love that saddle.


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

WyldStallyn said:


> That Cambium looks tasty. How does it compare to a broken in leather Brooks?


It was immediately broken in....plus, my leather brooks rivets started putting holes in all my pants, this one's rivets are different. I love it!! Highly recommend!!


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## Dethklok (Aug 13, 2010)

Can't wait I just ordered a bunch of parts for my Krampus build just waiting for the Ops frame to drop. I had a Beargrease in the past and loved it but for this season I wanted something different and FUN, so I picked a 29+ over a standard 29er even though shes making me broke before shes even here lol but in all honesty I figure the Krampus is a good way to kick off quitting smoking.

so far the parts list is:
XT front, Zee 142 rear hubs laced to Velocity Duallys + Tubeless set up 120TPI Knards
XT Brakes + XTR centerlock Rotors (203 front/180 rear)
Zee Crankset
XT shifter and Derailleur, 11-36 + Hope 40T-Rex 
King Headset, XT BB
Thomson Masterpiece Post, Race Face bars

Honestly the only thing I really have to gripe about is I wish it had a slightly longer top tube but that's because I stumpy legs and long torso (I did get to try out a stock krampus) In the future I am considering a lefty but that's a ways away.


----------



## kimberleyturtle (Dec 30, 2009)

*kalamunda*

Krampus and Lynskey about to start down Horny Devil on the Kalamunda Circuit.


----------



## TSOXBHK (Jan 17, 2012)

So is the RS-1 gunna fit 29+? I hope so.


----------



## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

I just replaced my worn drivetrain with a new oneup 42t cog, raceface 32t narrowwide, sram t2 med r der, 1030 11-36 cass and full length 1030 chain (surprisingly I can only remove 1 link without causing the med cage to bind, but longer chain wraps better on smaller cogs). It works great tooling around the neighborhood so far. Since I dropped the f der, I took out the monkey nuts and moved the rear axle all the way forward. I actually moved the wheel forward a week ago and have done 2 ride like that. The bike climbs much better with the wheel forward. Far easier to keep traction on rooty climbs covered with leaves. My 32-42 low gear is almost the same as my former 24t granny mated to the second gear on the cassette (32). I think this setup will even work on very long, crampy mountain climbs.
The only thing I'm wondering about is if the chain will hit the tire in the climbing gear while going over bumps.


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## TSOXBHK (Jan 17, 2012)

My set up hit rotor on caliper if I moved it all the way forward in the drop outs. I had to run the monkey nuts just to get a good set up on my rotor and caliper.


----------



## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

TSOXBHK said:


> My set up hit rotor on caliper if I moved it all the way forward in the drop outs. I had to run the monkey nuts just to get a good set up on my rotor and caliper.


I put a thin washer under each caliper on the mounting bolt to fix this problem. by thin, I just mean a regular washer. maybe 1mm., from a box of metric washers, nuts and bolts I bought at harbor freight. works perfectly.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

PretendGentleman said:


> The only thing I'm wondering about is if the chain will hit the tire in the climbing gear while going over bumps.


if it does, simply move your chainring to the outer position on the cranks.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

monogod said:


> if it does, simply move your chainring to the outer position on the cranks.


well, not so simple, as you can't do that without a compromise in chainline. It seemed to work well as is on a 4hr ride tonight. Far better than my previous triple setup worked in the granny and that was rideable.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Moving the chainring to the outer position and putting your BB spacer on the non-drive side will give you something that's somewhat in the middle of being too close and rubbing and being too far away negatively effecting chainline.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Moving the chainring to the outer position and putting your BB spacer on the non-drive side will give you something that's somewhat in the middle of being too close and rubbing and being too far away negatively effecting chainline.


yes, it's continuously variable if you have a variety of spacer widths. I prefer to have the best chainline for climbing, so I will run the front ring as close to the tire as will work, which I am discovering through trial and error.

When I was using the MWOD if I moved my chainline out, the chain would pull off the bigger ring. Pretty much made the MWOD unuseable since offsetting it to the outside was the whole point. It would work, you just couldn't use the big (33t) ring with anything on the top half of the cassette.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

PretendGentleman said:


> When I was using the MWOD if I moved my chainline out, the chain would pull off the bigger ring.


ah.... hence your reply to moving the chainring a couple mm outboard. i can assure you that moving it outboard a couple mm will work fine provided there are not issues with your other components. voice of experience, i've been running 1x9 (and 1x10 using roadie stuff) on mtbs for over 10 years without chainline issues - thus my suggested tried and true solution.

if you're having issues with the chain pulling off the ring at the ends of the cassette when the chainline is pretty much centered on the middle of the cassette then it sounds more like more of a problem with the chainring than the chainline.

two solutions: narrow/wide chainring or chainguide.

both raceface and wolftooth make a n/w that will hold a chain like mad - and mrp makes a great, affordable chainguide.


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## dea1276 (Jun 13, 2013)

Just ordered a Krampus from LBS. They recommend a large. Im 5'10 with a 33 in inseam. My other bike is a 19in trek remedy 29er running a 80mm stem. After reading through the thread it sounds like a might have gotten a size to large. Anyone have any thoughts on that?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

dea1276 said:


> Just ordered a Krampus from LBS. They recommend a large. Im 5'10 with a 33 in inseam. My other bike is a 19in trek remedy 29er running a 80mm stem. After reading through the thread it sounds like a might have gotten a size to large. Anyone have any thoughts on that?


I'm 5' 11" with a 33" pants inseam and ride a medium. I could do a large with a short stem.

The TT will be long so it depends how your torso/arms are proportioned and how long a stem you want to run.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

dea1276 said:


> Just ordered a Krampus from LBS. They recommend a large. Im 5'10 with a 33 in inseam. My other bike is a 19in trek remedy 29er running a 80mm stem. After reading through the thread it sounds like a might have gotten a size to large. Anyone have any thoughts on that?


I am 5'10 with a 33 inseam and I am riding a medium. I have a 90 mm stem with 620 mm wide bars. I don't think I would want it any bigger for me.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I'm 6'1" on a Large and feel that I would benefit from a shorter stem. You could always try that.


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## dea1276 (Jun 13, 2013)

It sounds like I would be better off on a medium, if it turns out I cant change it will running a shorter stem effectively change the reach? The reach on my remedy is 423mm +80mm stem 503mm total, The reach on the Large Krampus is 441mm So if I ran a 60mm stem total reach would be 501mm so should feel similar? Bike geometry and sizing is still a bit of a mystery to me.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

dea1276 said:


> It sounds like I would be better off on a medium, if it turns out I cant change it will running a shorter stem effectively change the reach? The reach on my remedy is 423mm +80mm stem 503mm total, The reach on the Large Krampus is 441mm So if I ran a 60mm stem total reach would be 501mm so should feel similar? Bike geometry and sizing is still a bit of a mystery to me.


Beyond simply fitting on the bike the two sizes will offer different wheel bases and different weight distributions....so they will ride differently even if you get the reach the same by varying stem length.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

dea1276 said:


> Just ordered a Krampus from LBS. They recommend a large. Im 5'10 with a 33 in inseam. My other bike is a 19in trek remedy 29er running a 80mm stem. After reading through the thread it sounds like a might have gotten a size to large. Anyone have any thoughts on that?


I would definitely recommend a medium to you. the large should be good for descending with the front wheel further out and a shorter stem. I figure with a bike like this, go smaller than usual since it's already big and resists moving.


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## dea1276 (Jun 13, 2013)

Went into the bike shop this morning. The bike had already shipped but they agreed to return it and ordered me a medium. Thanks everyone for the feedback.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Glad that worked out. I'm 6'0" and all my other bike are and have in the past been large. I went with a large Krampus and believe I could've gone medium with this bike.


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## JYB (Nov 12, 2011)

I think that you ended up getting the correct frame size. I'm 5'10" with a 32-33" inseam and I'm riding a Medium. It's a fun bike!


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## mowabb (Dec 9, 2011)

5'11-34 inseam, Medium+straight seatpost+90 stem: perfect.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

vikb said:


> I'll probably do Reba first. I'm feeling like living dangerously!
> 
> We have a lot of storm related blowdown on our trails so I'm going to be spending lots of time cutting & moving trees. And then be tired afterwards.
> 
> ...


Not to pester you, but, uh, is this done yet? :thumbsup:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Not to pester you, but, uh, is this done yet? :thumbsup:


Nope not done yet.

I have got the fallen trees cleared from the storm. Been on a 2 day bikepacking tour with the Krampus. Built up 2 new FS MTBs and done a bunch of trail riding in the mean time. :thumbsup:

On the plus side I'm getting close. If nothing funky happens Saturday looks like a rain day and my plate will be clear to turn my attention to the Krampus.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

So for folks running a 1x drivetrain on their Krampus, how many are running a bashguard? In the past, I always ran a bashguard on my bikes. Here in the mid-atlantic, we've got lots of log pile to go over, occasional rocks, and I've a big dude that rides hard without grace. 

I haven't put a bashguard on my Krampus yet, and was fine all last year. I've been running a 30t or 34t chainring. Is the high bottom bracket of the Krampus enough to continue getting away without a bashguard?

I am sure there is no definitive answer, but curious what other people think and ride.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

renegade44 said:


> So for folks running a 1x drivetrain on their Krampus, how many are running a bashguard? In the past, I always ran a bashguard on my bikes. Here in the mid-atlantic, we've got lots of log pile to go over, occasional rocks, and I've a big dude that rides hard without grace.
> 
> I haven't put a bashguard on my Krampus yet, and was fine all last year. I've been running a 30t or 34t chainring. Is the high bottom bracket of the Krampus enough to continue getting away without a bashguard?
> 
> I am sure there is no definitive answer, but curious what other people think and ride.


It's all going to depend on where/how you ride and your personal preferences. Could it be useful? Yeah. I've smacked my chainring (lightly) a few times on log crossings and rocks, but not enough for me to want one. If I rode somewhere where I'd hit chainring often, I'd install a bashguard right away. The Krampus has a higher BB than other bikes, but it's not so high that it will clear everything you're hitting right now.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

renegade44 said:


> So for folks running a 1x drivetrain on their Krampus, how many are running a bashguard? In the past, I always ran a bashguard on my bikes. Here in the mid-atlantic, we've got lots of log pile to go over, occasional rocks, and I've a big dude that rides hard without grace.
> 
> I haven't put a bashguard on my Krampus yet, and was fine all last year. I've been running a 30t or 34t chainring. Is the high bottom bracket of the Krampus enough to continue getting away without a bashguard?
> 
> I am sure there is no definitive answer, but curious what other people think and ride.


I am a heavier guy running the pressure pretty low lately due to conditions and dont think I have come close to hitting (34t cr) but like you said, probably no definitive answer. Should also be said this is my first season on the krampus.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Alright Krampus friends, what's the easiest, most effective way to convert my 1x10 to a SS?


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Alright Krampus friends, what's the easiest, most effective way to convert my 1x10 to a SS?


Really? It's the same as for any other Surly. Remove shifter, derailleur, and cassette. Mount SS cog, shorten and then tension chain.

If that doesn't make any sense, please go do some research.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

Looking for specific info about a SS cog. The rest is pretty self explanatory.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Gouda Cheez said:


> Looking for specific info about a SS cog. The rest is pretty self explanatory.


What kind of info? size, manufacturer, material? If you want cheap, just get a Surly. As for size, that will depend on what chainring size you have and what your terrain is like. If you've ridden another 29er SS, I would aim for a ratio close to that but a tad easier to compensate for the added weight and tire diameter.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Surly cheap? I go for the $5 Shimano BMX cogs. They work fine on a steel freewheel, and you can get five or six of them for the price of the Surly.



bikeny said:


> What kind of info? size, manufacturer, material? If you want cheap, just get a Surly. As for size, that will depend on what chainring size you have and what your terrain is like. If you've ridden another 29er SS, I would aim for a ratio close to that but a tad easier to compensate for the added weight and tire diameter.


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

I guess I was just curious if I could keep my current freehub and such and just use spacers and a single rear cog. Never really looked into it and usually the guys in this thread as helpful.


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## Ridefat1981 (Mar 17, 2014)

I am finally getting around to,putting my slx brakes on my krampus. The rear was super easy, but on the front, the caliper is hitting the spokes. I was thinking of just dishing the wheel, but I do not think it will move them over enough. HELP. I NEED TO GO DESTROY SOME TRAILS.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Ridefat1981 said:


> I am finally getting around to,putting my slx brakes on my krampus. The rear was super easy, but on the front, the caliper is hitting the spokes. I was thinking of just dishing the wheel, but I do not think it will move them over enough. HELP. I NEED TO GO DESTROY SOME TRAILS.


Sorry. I have SLX brakes on my Krampus, but I built my wheel using only the DS spoke holes so no clearance issues.


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## PeopleForScience (May 15, 2012)

Just cut out all the spokes on that side of the wheel! Don't actually do that. You can get rotor shims to move it further from the center of the hub. Then your caliper will gain some clearance.


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## Ridefat1981 (Mar 17, 2014)

I have the rotor shims but I can't move my caliper far enough over. I need literally a few millimeters of room.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Here are some RS Reba RLT mods to get a Knard/RH to fit. Posted over in the Krampus suspension fork thread. Post #206.

You need a dremel tool with a sanding drum, some music and a beer...a sharpie is useful to keep you focused on the contact spots. :thumbsup:










I'm going to setup my Knard/RH tubeless next and then do another test fit in the fork to ensure the tire is the same size before I paint the areas I sanded.


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## Ridefat1981 (Mar 17, 2014)

I still have the original fork on it, and it is the brake itself that is rubbing the spokes


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I bought a new/used Krampus frame this winter, but due to the weather and mechanical issues, today was the first day I really got to spend some time on it.










Overall, I enjoyed it, though I ended up bottoming out the tires at several points on the trail. Like Vik has said in the past, the Krampus is still a rigid bike. I didn't really learn that until today. Surprisingly, I was pretty OK with the slack front end. This is coming from a guy that has previous said the OS Blackuck with a 73* HA was the best handling bike I've ridden.

I put up more review points on my blog.


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## dea1276 (Jun 13, 2013)

Ridefat1981 said:


> I still have the original fork on it, and it is the brake itself that is rubbing the spokes


Im running a Zee front and Deore rear on the stock Avid HS rotors. Clearance is close but it fits. What size rotors are you running?


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## A. Nony Moose (Aug 18, 2004)

I couldn't find an answer with general poking around, but maybe someone here has some dirt on the new Krampus Ops regarding the dropouts...
I currently run my Gen1 Krampus geared with the axle all the way forward..
On paper it reads the new vertical dropouts Ops frame measures the same chainstay length as the Gen1..but in photos it looks like the axle would be 3/4"-1" further back..
I'd love the simplicity of vertical dropouts but don't think I would want to compromise with longer chainstays..
Does anybody's know for sure?


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## Ridefat1981 (Mar 17, 2014)

I am running a 180 front and a 160 rear. The rear fits by a mile.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

whelp, posting just to say I bought one...full build will come soon. I'm surprised at how light the frame and fork is.

anybody have a wheelset they're looking to part with, before I buy up some duallys, knards, and pay for a wheelbuild?


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## dea1276 (Jun 13, 2013)

Ridefat1981 said:


> I am running a 180 front and a 160 rear. The rear fits by a mile.


Make sure your wheel is true clearance is very close for me. I put one thin washer between the adapter and the caliper to get the pads perfect with rotor. You could also try swapping calipers to see if it fits. If it did you would have to swap levers then bleed the brakes, not optimal but beats running the stock mechanical breaks.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Ridefat1981 said:


> I am running a 180 front and a 160 rear. The rear fits by a mile.


I had the same issue with mine (Formula Puros) I ended up shimming and putting on a 200mm+ (don't remember exactly) rotor. Still not a ton of clearance.


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

Anyone know when we will be able to get the ops frame? Are they going to be available when the completes are, or will we have to wait even longer?


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## A. Nony Moose (Aug 18, 2004)

sandwich said:


> whelp, posting just to say I bought one...full build will come soon. I'm surprised at how light the frame and fork is.
> 
> anybody have a wheelset they're looking to part with, before I buy up some duallys, knards, and pay for a wheelbuild?


hey Sammich i have a set of RH's built on black XT hubs...
can prolly part with the 120tpi Knards if you must have em


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

mactweek said:


> Anyone know when we will be able to get the ops frame? Are they going to be available when the completes are, or will we have to wait even longer?


Ops frame is showing an ETA for the middle of September. I'm assuming completes will be around the same time or shortly after. Keep in mind that Surly's ETAs are usually a bit off as well. I'd love to see the Ops frame out in September, but it could be later than that.


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## Vincentg (Sep 24, 2008)

While we are talking ETA's, know how about ETA's for the 29" DW & 26x3 Knard. Any info about those?


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

last I read the derp wizard 29x2.8 is in Aug/September.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Vincentg said:


> While we are talking ETA's, know how about ETA's for the 29" DW & 26x3 Knard. Any info about those?


Late 2014 for the 29+ Dirt Wizards. I have no clue on the 26x3" Knards.


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## Ridefat1981 (Mar 17, 2014)

I got it to stop hitting the spokes, but I can't adjust the the rotor and pads to stop rubbing. I am going to try another front SLX I have and see if it helps. I really do not want to go back to the bb7s.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Late 2014 for the 29+ Dirt Wizards. I have no clue on the 26x3" Knards.


26x3" Knards are available now. I had no clue and it seems like others didn't also!


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Ridefat1981 said:


> I got it to stop hitting the spokes, but I can't adjust the the rotor and pads to stop rubbing. I am going to try another front SLX I have and see if it helps. I really do not want to go back to the bb7s.


Have you tried a regular 29er wheel? the offset spoke holes make for a low bracing angle, putting spokes a tiny bit closer to your brake caliper, but I suspect it's quite tiny unless you're running 400mm rotors.

If a regular 29er wheel clears the caliper, then you can change the lacing to get the clearance you need. Either have all spokes go to the left set of holes or switch every spoke to the other hole, resulting in cross lacing (spokes from left flange hit right set of holes and vice versa). With either change you don't need to relace the wheel, just detension it and then switch spoke holes one at a time. You will of course have to know how to retension the wheel, which is the more refined aspect of wheel building. There are probably easier ways to get the clearance you need, but not being able to see your bike, I can't tell you the easiest option.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Setup my front wheel split-tube tubeless. Dead easy. :thumbsup:

Going to jump on the rear wheel next.


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## hopecyclery (Jan 2, 2012)

I love my Krampus OPS&#8230;. Pretty sure these aren't available for the general public yet.

You can like the raddest shop around here

and picture&#8230;









more here Hope Cyclery: 2015 Krampus OPS A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words?Take Two

Hope Cyclery


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## hopecyclery (Jan 2, 2012)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Ops frame is showing an ETA for the middle of September. I'm assuming completes will be around the same time or shortly after. Keep in mind that Surly's ETAs are usually a bit off as well. I'd love to see the Ops frame out in September, but it could be later than that.


September? Hmmm watch talking about willis  Facts are that they are stateside now and going through quality control&#8230; Hope you precooked though cause I hear they are sold through first production run.


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## A. Nony Moose (Aug 18, 2004)

hopecyclery said:


> September? Hmmm watch talking about willis  Facts are that they are stateside now and going through quality control&#8230; Hope you precooked though cause I hear they are sold through first production run.


Why is it we never hear about pre-orders til it's too late? Happened last time with 1st Krampus.

HopeCycle could you please measure the chainstay length on those vertical dropouts? Thanks


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## hopecyclery (Jan 2, 2012)

yup, ill have a post up about this thing in the next week… keep checking hopecyclery.blogspot.com for more


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

hopecyclery said:


> yup, ill have a post up about this thing in the next week&#8230;.


I like the dropouts but nothing will ever come close to the beauty of the original sparkle green Krampus. You might want to check with Surly about make you an Ops frame in original green. Then you'd have something to blog about. just sayin'....


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

vikb said:


> Setup my front wheel split-tube tubeless. Dead easy. :thumbsup:
> 
> Going to jump on the rear wheel next.


set mine up tubeless with one wrap of gorilla tape. dead easier! (and lighter) :thumbsup:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

monogod said:


> set mine up tubeless with one wrap of gorilla tape. dead easier! (and lighter) :thumbsup:


I'll take reliability and easier reseating in the field over saving a bit of weight. My Krampus is almost exclusively used on tour.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

hopecyclery said:


> I love my Krampus OPS&#8230;. Pretty sure these aren't available for the general public yet.
> 
> You can like the raddest shop around here
> 
> ...


Looks like ECR caliber chainstay length judging by the gap behind the seattube. Is the wheel all the way forward? My krampus with the wheel slammed forwards climbs so much better than with the monkey nuts.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

PretendGentleman said:


> Looks like ECR caliber chainstay length judging by the gap behind the seattube. Is the wheel all the way forward? My krampus with the wheel slammed forwards climbs so much better than with the monkey nuts.


The new frameset has the MDS dropouts. Looks to me like he's got either the vertical or 142 dropouts in..so there's no moving the wheel forward or backward.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> The new frameset has the MDS dropouts. Looks to me like he's got either the vertical or 142 dropouts in..so there's no moving the wheel forward or backward.


Can you get the same short wheelbase with the modular SS/IGH dropouts as the old obsolete Krampus?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

vikb said:


> Can you get the same short wheelbase with the modular SS/IGH dropouts as the old obsolete Krampus?


No clue, but I want to find out. You'd think Surly would make the vertical dropouts give the shortest wheelbase possible, but it doesn't look that way.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

vikb said:


> I'll take reliability and easier reseating in the field over saving a bit of weight. My Krampus is almost exclusively used on tour.


seated and inflated with a floor pump and no sealant.


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## emp? (Sep 8, 2009)

new build finally up and running


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

*Titanium*

Well, after a long wait, this is the result. The ultimate 29+. Although it is not an actual "Krampus", it was inspired by one.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

whoah. dat 29+. what is the weight? What rims are you using?


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Weight without pedals is 24.08lbs.

The rims are Schlick Northpaw 29+ (47mm wide)


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

ale50ale said:


> Weight without pedals is 24.08lbs.
> 
> The rims are Schlick Northpaw 29+ (47mm wide)


I'm running the same rims (without the Northpaw logo) on my Edelbikes 29+. They're really nice rims and build up super easily. Pretty bike. Are you a smaller guy or did you want a lot of standover? Just curious.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

1 Speed said:


> I'm running the same rims (without the Northpaw logo) on my Edelbikes 29+. They're really nice rims and build up super easily. Pretty bike. Are you a smaller guy or did you want a lot of standover? Just curious.


I am 5'7" (170cm) and I have short legs.....


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

ale50ale said:


> Well, after a long wait, this is the result. The ultimate 29+. Although it is not an actual "Krampus", it was inspired by one.


How is clearance on the fork?

Can you post a pic?

Did you have to offset the front wheel any?


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

I'd love to run my lefty but don't want to give up the short stem that the krampo was designed for...


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

sandwich said:


> I'd love to run my lefty but don't want to give up the short stem that the krampo was designed for...


it's doable.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

monogod said:


> it's doable.


Yeah, but I'm not spending $1500 on a brand new MAX thing just to run a lefty! I'm sure that thing is great, but it's a very steep price of entry to still need to deal with possibly shortening travel, over-dishing the wheel, and still needing a proprietary hub!


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

sandwich said:


> Yeah, but I'm not spending $1500 on a brand new MAX thing just to run a lefty! I'm sure that thing is great, but it's a very steep price of entry to still need to deal with possibly shortening travel, over-dishing the wheel, and still needing a proprietary hub!


sounds like ya don't want it that bad then.... :lol:

non-max lefty with short stem:


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

appleSSeed said:


> How is clearance on the fork?
> 
> Can you post a pic?
> 
> Did you have to offset the front wheel any?


If you build the wheel with standard dish (ie. centered) it will only yield about 3mm of clearance from the knobs to the body of the lefty. This is NOT enough, as the wheel flex encountered under hard cornering causes it to rub.
I found that offsetting the wheel by 3mm prevented any rubbing. In some cases, this offset may be necessary just to clear the brake caliper (depends on the brand).


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## appleSSeed (Dec 29, 2003)

ale50ale said:


> If you build the wheel with standard dish (ie. centered) it will only yield about 3mm of clearance from the knobs to the body of the lefty. This is NOT enough, as the wheel flex encountered under hard cornering causes it to rub.
> I found that offsetting the wheel by 3mm prevented any rubbing. In some cases, this offset may be necessary just to clear the brake caliper (depends on the brand).


Thanks! I did a mock up on a 20mm internal rim just to check and even with that rim it was close so I was thinking it would def. rub.

3mm is not much at all so I don't mind doing that. Probably going to give it a go.


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

Very nice 
What rims are those?


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

After finally getting several weeks of (non-snow covered) trail riding in I decided to try out some narrower 29 wheels on my Krampus to see how she handles. Thought about trying to just fit smaller tires on the 50mm Rabbit Holes, but opted for a second 35mm wheelset entirley. This not only saves a fair amount of weight (down to 26 pounds now), but allows the narrower tire profile to stay as intended and I can now switch back and forth in about 2 minutes depending on conditions.

Went with Stans Flow / Hope Evo 2 tubeless with Schwalbe Nobby Nic 29 x 2.35s:







I was dumb (arrogant) enough to think I could seat the tires with a floor pump...which led to a hurried search for a schrader adaptor and a run to the compressor at the gas station. Other than that pretty simple to do.

Got a couple of rides in over the weekend and pretty much got what I expected. More agility, better climbing and a lot more traction from the tires. Handling is certainly different. I missed some of the float from the bigger, lower PSI Knards, but the 2.35 Nics still provide some float. It is, after all, a rigid bike.

On that note I've pondered a suspension fork, but in reality at least 75% of my riding since '92 has been on a rigid bike. Guess I'm a stubborn glutton for punishment.

It is a ton of fun and I really dig both options for the wheels. Plodding through inches of fresh snow, bikepacking through muck or flying around dry singletrack I am continuously impressed.

Oh, and with a 4 piece rod and an ultralight reel it's a great way to get from fishing hole to fishing hole for spring smallmouth:


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## BlueriderAK (Sep 22, 2007)

kdb71 said:


> After finally getting several weeks of (non-snow covered) trail riding in I decided to try out some narrower 29 wheels on my Krampus to see how she handles. Thought about trying to just fit smaller tires on the 50mm Rabbit Holes, but opted for a second 35mm wheelset entirley. This not only saves a fair amount of weight (down to 26 pounds now), but allows the narrower tire profile to stay as intended and I can now switch back and forth in about 2 minutes depending on conditions.
> 
> Went with Stans Flow / Hope Evo 2 tubeless with Schwalbe Nobby Nic 29 x 2.35s:
> View attachment 890945
> ...


 Dang, I miss bass fishin', no bass in Alaska. Maybe they'll bring some with climate change going on, and after the pike have eaten all the trout and salmon.


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

commute fun


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## nolamonster (Jul 13, 2011)

*My krampus*

Lrg krampus, whiskey#9 fork, hope hubs,rabbit hole rims ,eriksen ti post , niner rdo flat top bar, Thompson stem, xtr trail brakes , xx1 drivetrain, 120 tpi knards, chromag grips, chromag skarab pedals and an old a$$ flite saddle. I love this bike!!!


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## digthemlows (Feb 5, 2012)

Nice build!! It's such a fun bike!! I ride mine everyday to work. 5 miles of Road, 4 of Single Track each way...... it's a blast!!


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## Vincentg (Sep 24, 2008)

Hey ale50ale nice to see that the frame is done. Looks great! 

Have you gotten around to setting up the Northpaw's tubeless yet? I'm a little skeptical that it will work since they don't have much of a lip where the bead sets. I haven't tried it yet.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

now that this thread is 2500 posts long, is there a general consensus on 27 vs. 120tpi tires? I'm in need of a wheelset, and there are a couple of sets out there with 27tpi tires. I could also build up my own with 120tpi. I'm 200lbs nekkid, and ride rockier terrain, but rolling weight is rolling weight, and I'd probably run tubes so I could switch tires if I need.


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

Sweet ride nolamonster. They are a blast, aren't they?

sandwich-
I've done some experimenting with this. With the Knards I am running 27 up front and 120 rear and did have 26" ultralite tubes in both. I'm only about 160 lbs and had a few flats in the rear so I switched back to the regular 29" tube for the rear and haven't had a problem since. The 120 are signifigantly lighter so I'm going to try tubeless on the rear next to see how that holds up.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

Huh, that's probably the opposite direction I would go if I had both. The weight difference seems huge, but lots of comments about paper thin sidewalls and such.


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

Yeah, I did it on purpose to see if it would handle the rear before shelling out for both. I figure I can always put it up front.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

I run a 120 up front, and 27 in the rear. I weigh 215-220 lbs with clothes and gear. I ride somewhat rocky and technical terrain, but not overly so.

No problems with either and both with 29er tubes. I run 15.5 psi up front, and 17 psi in the rear.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

I've said this elsewhere in the thread, but regarding 120 vs 27 tpi:
the 27tpi is much more resistant to sidewall tears and big punctures. Both of my rear 120 tpi tires had significant damage within 100 miles! I've patched them, but am not using tubeless until I figure out more reliable patches.

The 120 tpi seems to handle lower pressure better. I set my pressure to avoid pinch flats. I can run around 12 psi in the 120's and have the same likelihood of pinching as 17psi in the 27's. I presume that when you hit a bump, the 27 tpi tire grows rather than the pressure increasing. The less elastic casing of the 120 does not expand as much, so the pressure ramps up faster as the tire deforms and it pushes back more. The 120 thus rides much better, but it's frustrating when your brand new $120 tire gets damage on the first ride and you replace it and the new one is damaged on the third ride. My 27's were worn smooth over a year of riding with no sidewall cuts or big casing punctures.

WIth both tires, I had issues running tubeless and pinching the sidewall. I get little cuts right by the bead. I've patched those with regular patches so I can keep running tubeless, but they come off after around 100 miles.


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## jujuyak (Feb 16, 2008)

Does anybody know when the ops is gonna be available? The wife has green lighted my krampus


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

jujuyak said:


> Does anybody know when the ops is gonna be available? The wife has green lighted my krampus


You're on Surly time, the phase, "Soon come!" seems to fit best....



> However, the most essential patois expression of all time is the phrase "soon come". As you will quickly realize, this very widely used term bears no reference to swiftness despite most people concluding exactly this based on the word "soon". Like most things in Jamaica, even the word "soon" has its own meaning. Be prepared to wait hours or more likely days for the person who told you he would "soon come". A more accurate translation would be; I will get there when I get there.


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

Surly's reputation for "soon come" is why I am waiting for an R.S.D. Mutant. Unfortunately it is not in stock either.
I understand that the Krampus ops won't be available til at least August. At least that is what I was told when I tried to get one at lbs.


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## jujuyak (Feb 16, 2008)

I guess my decision has been made then. I like the green anyway. Thanks


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Esp before Wifey changes her mind!

When I first went to Italy on business, I thought "domani" meant "tomorrow" in all cases. A co-worker from Mexico clued me in, based on how it's said it can mean "not today", a subtle but very important difference. Same thing for "mañana". This conversation reminded me of that important language lesson


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## Hootbmx (Feb 20, 2012)

Couple of pics of my Krampus with Fox 34:


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Great bikes! Keep em coming.


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## chilled_kroete (Jul 17, 2008)




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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

My stock Krampus yesterday up at 8700 ft.

(Except for the warranty busting crank mods to allow a double.)


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

Anyone here try a 40 or 42 cog on their Krampus? 
It's pretty hilly here, but no major elevation. I get along fine, but I'll be taking my bike out to Oregon next month and kicking around the idea of adding a 40 or 42 (Wolftooth, Hope). In theory it sounds great, but I've heard mixed reviews on impact on shifting and not sure if some folks just aren't making proper der/ chain adjustments or if this setup doesn't play well with some rear ders.
Currently running 34T Race Face N/W, stock Shimano SLX Shadow + rear der and Shimano XT 11-36 cassette.
Any experience with the stock Krampus der would be particularly helpful...


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## dea1276 (Jun 13, 2013)

The trails are fairly technical and rocky with some very steep climbs where I ride. I run a 30 tooth Narrow-Wide and a 42 tooth wolftooth on the stock Shadow Plus Derailleur and and Pg-1070 cassette. I really like it, that being said the shift past where the old 17 cog was is rough but works. This is not a big deal for me as I only pass that shift a few times on an average ride. Also to clear the rear derailleur with the 42 tooth I also have to run the wheel in the furthest inboard position, also not a big deal for me because I feel the bike handles best with the wheel in this position anyways.


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

Thanks! That is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I know Oneup makes a 16T. I may try that too.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

I had a guy on another forum tell me the Krampus is "NOT A REAL MOUNTAIN BIKE".

What do you think?


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

drummerdavid said:


> I had a guy on another forum tell me the Krampus is "NOT A REAL MOUNTAIN BIKE".
> 
> What do you think?


he's a moran.

the end.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

monogod said:


> he's a moran.
> 
> the end.


See, thats what I thought.

But I skipped 20 YEARS of mtb evolution from my old Litespeed to the new Krampus.


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## Austin Popper (Feb 2, 2014)

drummerdavid said:


> I had a guy on another forum tell me the Krampus is "NOT A REAL MOUNTAIN BIKE".
> 
> What do you think?


I think besides being a putz for shouting his nonsense in CAPS LOCK, he's not a real mountain biker. Probably just another poser, of which there are legions.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

Austin Popper said:


> I think besides being a putz for shouting his nonsense in CAPS LOCK, he's not a real mountain biker. Probably just another poser, of which there are legions.


The caps lock was all me. I just wanted to show off his words.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

Specialized chisel and knard 3.0, go or no go? Seems like a decent carbon fork option, can be had used for reasonable prices. Lacks a 15mm, not a big deal...


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

sandwich said:


> Specialized chisel and knard 3.0, go or no go? Seems like a decent carbon fork option, can be had used for reasonable prices. Lacks a 15mm, not a big deal...


I can't say for sure if the Knard will fit in the Chisel, but it's likely. For sure I've seen folks run similar shaped carbon forks (Niner, etc).

I do know for sure that the Carver XC470 carbon fork works really well, and it's super reasonably priced new. It's also 10mm shorter axel-to-crown than the chisel (470 vs 480), and 13mm shorter than the stock fork. It adds a whole new level of awesome to the Krampus.

Here it is on my bike...









https://www.bikeman.com/CARV-FKMTN29-XC470.html

No affiliation with Carver - I just like their stuff...


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## Ska (Jan 12, 2004)

ale50ale said:


> Well, after a long wait, this is the result. The ultimate 29+. Although it is not an actual "Krampus", it was inspired by one.


Pretty darn nice!


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

kdb71 said:


> Anyone here try a 40 or 42 cog on their Krampus?
> It's pretty hilly here, but no major elevation. I get along fine, but I'll be taking my bike out to Oregon next month and kicking around the idea of adding a 40 or 42 (Wolftooth, Hope). In theory it sounds great, but I've heard mixed reviews on impact on shifting and not sure if some folks just aren't making proper der/ chain adjustments or if this setup doesn't play well with some rear ders.
> Currently running 34T Race Face N/W, stock Shimano SLX Shadow + rear der and Shimano XT 11-36 cassette.
> Any experience with the stock Krampus der would be particularly helpful...


I've been running a wolftooth 42t cog on a shimano cassette and Race Face 34 w/n chainring since Spring, and it has been great. Rear der and shifter is the stock that came on Krampus complete.
I am running an alternate rear wheel with a DT 440 hub. I'm not sure I trust the shimano freewheel under the extra loads from the 42, as the original shimano freewhel died after a couple of months of use with a 36 cassette. But the 2nd shimano freewheel has many, many months of use, so perhaps just a fluke. FWIW, I am a pretty strong rider and weigh 215-220 lbs, and ride singlespeed/fixed when I am not on my Krampus.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

Some good deals out there for krampites...

Bikewagon has 120tpi knards for $107 ea

Prowheelbuilder.com has velocity duallys for $83, and they're having a 10% off sale.

I had jenson price match the knards and the rims should be on their way shortly...


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

CCSS said:


> I do know for sure that the Carver XC470 carbon fork works really well, and it's super reasonably priced new. It's also 10mm shorter axel-to-crown than the chisel (470 vs 480), and 13mm shorter than the stock fork. It adds a whole new level of awesome to the Krampus.


how about a shot from the front to show sidewall clearance?

the spot carbon fork and the whiskey 9 mtb fork will also fit the knard with plenty of room to spare, but both are 480mm a/c.

i'm interested in how this fork rides. how about a more in-depth ride report too?

thx.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

Has anyone (re)built their front wheel with a 9mm/15mm convertible hub? If so what one did you use?

I'm thinking of hunting for a suspension fork that randomly happens to fit but i'd still like to have the option of switching back to the stock rigid fork without rebuilding the wheel..


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

renegade44 said:


> I've been running a wolftooth 42t cog on a shimano cassette and Race Face 34 w/n chainring since Spring, and it has been great. Rear der and shifter is the stock that came on Krampus complete.
> I am running an alternate rear wheel with a DT 440 hub. I'm not sure I trust the shimano freewheel under the extra loads from the 42, as the original shimano freewhel died after a couple of months of use with a 36 cassette. But the 2nd shimano freewheel has many, many months of use, so perhaps just a fluke. FWIW, I am a pretty strong rider and weigh 215-220 lbs, and ride singlespeed/fixed when I am not on my Krampus.


Thanks Renegade44. I'd actually be running this on the stock der, but with a Shimano XT cassette on a Hope hub/freewheel. Hopefully a little more resiliant. Think I'm gonna go ahead and order and give it a shot. Let y'all know how it goes.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

Alex.C said:


> Has anyone (re)built their front wheel with a 9mm/15mm convertible hub? If so what one did you use?
> 
> I'm thinking of hunting for a suspension fork that randomly happens to fit but i'd still like to have the option of switching back to the stock rigid fork without rebuilding the wheel..


I'll be building mine with an american classic 15mm hub. I believe it's pretty easy to do it with the proper parts, but apparently on ebay you can get a 5mm through axle or 9mm QR axle that slides into any 15mm hub. Probably heavier than the proper channels, but I'll probably end up doing that and then just drop the krampus fork when the time comes. You can also apparently get the Mavic QR axle caps, which fit/work with SOME hubs, but not all. The great thing about 15mm is that the axle is narrower than 20mm hubs, allowing them to be easily converted. I plan on running a 15mm whiskey/spot fork or a fox 32 at some point, maybe.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

sandwich said:


> but apparently on ebay you can get a 5mm through axle or 9mm QR axle that slides into any 15mm hub.


Of course, I should have realized such a generic adapter exists due to the simplicity of making a hole smaller. I might check out the American Classic hubs if only to make sure their conversion kits fit. (exactly which AC hub are you using BTW?)

RETROFIT|THRU AXLE CONVERSION KITS


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

monogod said:


> how about a shot from the front to show sidewall clearance?
> 
> the spot carbon fork and the whiskey 9 mtb fork will also fit the knard with plenty of room to spare, but both are 480mm a/c.
> 
> ...


Monogod-

I don't have a straight ahead shot handy. Here's a couple that may give you some idea:
















Plenty of clearance. I was running around 7 psi in the snow and never had any rub. In the one pic you can see some snow sticking between fork / tire.

As far as how the fork rides...I love it. Not only do you save a ton of weight over stock, but the carbon helps reduce some of the rigid chatter (especially with a carbon bar). Very noticable. This would really be true of any carbon fork though. The geometry is the biggest difference between the Carver, stock and other carbon options. As CCSS mentioned the Carver is a little shorter than the other options. That was a major factor in my decision anyway. Very happy with how the Carver handles. Unfortunately I haven't run any other carbon forks and I only had the stock fork on for a few weeks so I don't have a lot of room for comparison.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

kdb71 said:


> The geometry is the biggest difference between the Carver, stock and other carbon options. As CCSS mentioned the Carver is a little shorter than the other options.


this is precisely what intrigues me about this fork.

while i don't think my krampus is sluggish per se, i am none the less very curious how it would ride with a 10mm shorter fork. i prefer much snappier handling to more stable handling, and don't see the trade-off as a deficit of any kind. well, other than a tad lower bb, but i run 170 cranks so that's not even a big issue. shorter forks generally put the ends of my crank arms where a 175 would be with the longer fork.

i have a spot carbon fork on my honey badger which rides phenomenally and was thinking of slapping one on my krampy, but i may give this fork a day in court first.

thanks for the pics. from the snow on the fork at 7 lbs. it looks like there's lots of clearance for tyre growth at low psi.

are you running tubeless? i converted mine with a single wrap of gorilla tape and love it.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

Alex.C said:


> Of course, I should have realized such a generic adapter exists due to the simplicity of making a hole smaller. I might check out the American Classic hubs if only to make sure their conversion kits fit. (exactly which AC hub are you using BTW?)
> 
> RETROFIT|THRU AXLE CONVERSION KITS


Mine is a 15mm thru axle hub. I don't think they have a name for it. I believe it's the disk 130, as that looks the same minus the 15mil axle.

I know that hope hubs are easy, the DT swiss 350 is not (it requires an entirely different axle and cannot use the mavic $10 adapters). DT 240 is easy with end caps. King I think is an axle swap, shimano is not possible (aside from the QR ebay axle).

This is the ebay axle: Mountain Bike 15mm thru Axle to Standard 5mm Quick Release Wheel Adapter | eBay it sounds like it slides in and then you use a QR.


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

monogod said:


> this is precisely what intrigues me about this fork.
> 
> while i don't think my krampus is sluggish per se, i am none the less very curious how it would ride with a 10mm shorter fork. i prefer much snappier handling to more stable handling, and don't see the trade-off as a deficit of any kind. well, other than a tad lower bb, but i run 170 cranks so that's not even a big issue. shorter forks generally put the ends of my crank arms where a 175 would be with the longer fork.
> 
> ...


"Snappier handling" is a good way to put it. That was my quest as well and the Carver fits the bill. Tried a few different stem / bar combos too in order to really dial in to my taste, but the fork was key.

I've only bottomed out once and that was on a man made feature and was way more to do with wheelbase than actual BB height so that really hasn't been a factor for me.

I'm running my current wheels (Stans rims and 29x2.35 tires) tubeless and loving it, but haven't set up the RH / Knards tubeless yet. I will before I put 'em back on.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

monogod said:


> how about a shot from the front to show sidewall clearance?
> 
> the spot carbon fork and the whiskey 9 mtb fork will also fit the knard with plenty of room to spare, but both are 480mm a/c.
> 
> ...


monogod, sorry for the lag in response. And kdb71, thanks for posting up your pix and ride impressions.

I don't have additional photos on this peecee, but I shared a bunch in this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/singlespeed/krampus-singlespeed-870711.html I think you'll find everything on the first page of the thread, and you'll see the straight on shots you asked about, as well as some other angles.

Here's the rest of the scoop...

1) The fork wasn't perfect when I received it. In order to get the front brake caliper to seat properly I had to have the post mount faced at my LBS. It was super easy and cost less than $20, but it wasn't something I expected. Forrest Carver told me I could sand it down myself with a file, but I wasn't comfortable with that. For my troubles, Carver sent me some free stuff (a Surly hat, seat clamp, some decals, etc.). Those guys (Carver/Bikeman) are really solid to work with. After getting that work done, the interface has remained perfect. Again, I have no affiliation with Caver or Bikeman.

2) I have ridden multiple carbon forks (I have a Niner 1st generation on my IF), and I rode a Chumba URSA (29+) with a Whiskey carbon. Not to mention that I only ride rigid bikes at this point, so I've spent quite a bit of time on nice steel stuff as well (Viscous, Black Cat, Salsa Cromoto, Kona, etc.). I'd say that the XC470 is right up there with the most "fun/playful" forks I've ever ridden. It's way smoother than the Niner, and is almost "springy" in the way it absorbs and releases energy -- especially when hitting the lip of a jump. It isn't too flexy when grabbing brakes, and it's survived a solid year of legit riding on the drops and rocks of Austin, TX. It's a lot of fun! Note, I'm about 185 fully geared up.

3) With regard to the 13mm A:C decrease, I think this has a lot to do with how my bike rides. I don't feel like I've lost any stability whatsoever, just picked up a degree of extra nimbleness. I'm the only person in my fairly large group with a 29+, and everyone who rides the bike says roughly the same thing: "Wow! That bike rides way better than it should!"

4) You *may* get some light Knard Knob rubbing on the inside of the fork legs. After a year, you can see where the carbon is scuffed up on my fork on both sides. It's purely cosmetic. I'm running the RH with DT Swiss Comps and a DT Swiss 240 front hub, and the wheel was built by a really solid wheel builder (and fellow Krampus rider). I never hear or feel the rub, so I'm not worried about it at all. It could just be rocks/mud that have run through the fork at various times.

Hope that all helps.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Alex.C said:


> Has anyone (re)built their front wheel with a 9mm/15mm convertible hub? If so what one did you use?


yes. chris king.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

CCSS said:


> monogod, sorry for the lag in response. And kdb71, thanks for posting up your pix and ride impressions.
> 
> I don't have additional photos on this peecee, but I shared a bunch in this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/singlespeed/krampus-singlespeed-870711.html I think you'll find everything on the first page of the thread, and you'll see the straight on shots you asked about, as well as some other angles.
> 
> ...


right on, bro. exactly what i was looking for. thx!

thanks for the link, i remember your bike from that thread but didn't put your name to it here. that thread's what got me interested in the carver fork when i decided to build a krampus.

think i'll give it a go. the only downside i can see with the fork is it's only available in QR and not 15mm. i'm running the RH with king iso front/rear. i'm ordering the 142 conversion tomorrow which will really lock down the rear end but may hold off on the 15mm conversion until i finalize fork choice.

the other is that it's not available in flat and i'm running an ops now, but that's a minor niggle.

btw, i'm right up the road from you. if you ever wanna come ride the park let me know and i'll give you the $2 tour. your krampy will LOVE it! :thumbsup:


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

monogod said:


> btw, i'm right up the road from you. if you ever wanna come ride the park let me know and i'll give you the $2 tour. your krampy will LOVE it! :thumbsup:


Hey, monogod. If you're talking Cameron Park, I'd love to get a guided tour! I've ridden there a couple of times with folks who knew their way around and had a blast. And right back at'cha if you're interested in checking out some of the off-the-beaten-path stuff here in town.


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## A. Nony Moose (Aug 18, 2004)

anyone here gone from the 1st Gen Krampus to the Ops?
i just did the swap and originally i was stoked to get the Ops for the vertical dropouts...
only now to realize the shorter wheelbase/chainstay length i enjoyed on the green bike is unpossible on the Ops.. 
i had been running the axle all the way forward and now it sits about 3/4" more rearward (17.75" vs 18.5")
havent ridden it yet but i'm really hoping it isn't a noticeable change since i really like the way Green bike handles and rides..
the only way to get that short chainstay length back is to go to the horizontal dropouts (gag) and in doing so, now i lose the derailleur hanger..
ugh
anyone have time on both to compare?


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

dayum. Might not be too bad of a change considering the weight of the tire/wheel and size of the wheel, vs. a skinnier tire on a normal 29er...but I'm nervous about the bike's chainstays at 17.5" (reported length). I did not like the way my Canzo handled at 18.5".


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

I got an original krampus complete (11-36 cassette/slx shador der with clutch) that I put a 32t raceface nw wide on. In my 11t, the derailer seems to "skip" a bit then reengage when I am really working. Never happened with 34t crank/mrp guide. What is this and what can I do to make it go away?


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## Ridefat1981 (Mar 17, 2014)

Mine did the same thing when I made the exact same switch. I checked my cassette, pulled it all the way off and made sure it was tight when I put it back on. And it worked. Not sure exactly why, but it is worth a try. Also did you take the links out of your chain? The two from switching from 34 to 32 and he ones that surly recommended taking out?


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## BTG (Jun 16, 2014)

Hey guys. New here, so please forgive the sideways photos. Thought you might like to see what I've done with my krampus. I bought it stock and so far I've added (in no real order): 
Juicy 7 brakes
30 tooth narrowwide Raceface ring 
One Up 42 tooth rear cog (this thing climbs everything now) 
Thompson stem and Raceface bars (stock bar/stem sucked. Sorry Surly, I love you guys, but the cockpits need work)
the new MRP Stage (it's tight, but it works)
15mm DT Swiss 350 front hub
Saint platform pedals for when I'm not using my Time clipless pedals 
The black sticker kit is super low key and looks amazing in the sun (I bet you thought your bike was custom)
There's probably lots that I'm missing, but those are the important bits. I love this bike! It really rips.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

BTG said:


> Hey guys. New here, so please forgive the sideways photos. Thought you might like to see what I've done with my krampus. I bought it stock and so far I've added (in no real order):


that looks like a damn super-honzo.

kind of a shame that clearance is so tight on the stage. I'd love to try one out, but clearance doesn't appear to be much better than a fox 32, which can be had wildly cheaper than a brand new fork.

what length bar and stem did you go with?


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

Nice ride BTG. I semi-customized my decals...took the Krampus ones off and used the biggers Surly logos from an old Intigator decal set set.

Tight is right on that fork. Until there's a really viable and affordable option I'm sticking with carbon fork/ bars to reduce some chatter and using my knees and elbows for suspension. Just like the old days. Man, it's still fun!

Added the Wolftooth 42T, a One Up 16T and a new KMC chain this weekend. Ordered, but didn't need to use the longer B screw. Really a pretty simple setup and just takes some rear der tweaking to get surprisingly good shifting. Only did some quick test riding yesterday, but so far very happy with it. Gald I got the 16T instead of settling for a gap using 15T or 17T.


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## BTG (Jun 16, 2014)

sandwich said:


> that looks like a damn super-honzo.
> 
> kind of a shame that clearance is so tight on the stage. I'd love to try one out, but clearance doesn't appear to be much better than a fox 32, which can be had wildly cheaper than a brand new fork.
> 
> what length bar and stem did you go with?


Aww. Harsh words about the Honzo... I really hate Kona, haha.

I went with a 50mm Thompson stem and Raceface Chester bars, which are 740mm. I was running a narrower bar before and it just didn't suit the bike at all. I wish I had gone with the Wolfstooth 42 tooth cog, as I do notice the 15-19 gap as a hesitation when shifting up for sure.

It is too bad about the fork clearance, I was hoping to switch over to the Dirt Wizards at some point, but I'm not sure if they'll even clear at all. It was worth it though, the fork feels awesome, and I can push a lot harder on the trails now. I come from a predominantly downhill background which explains the better brakes easier gearing and suspension So judge away, haha.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

A. Nony Moose said:


> anyone here gone from the 1st Gen Krampus to the Ops?
> i just did the swap and originally i was stoked to get the Ops for the vertical dropouts...
> only now to realize the shorter wheelbase/chainstay length i enjoyed on the green bike is unpossible on the Ops..
> i had been running the axle all the way forward and now it sits about 3/4" more rearward (17.75" vs 18.5")
> ...


I was worried about this. I've ridden my krampus with and without the monkey nuts and I really noticed it when I went back to the short rear end. I ride a lot of steep short up and downs most of the time and the shorter rear end has much better traction.


----------



## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

BTG said:


> Aww. Harsh words about the Honzo... I really hate Kona, haha.
> .


Haha, sorry- that was supposed to be a compliment. The honzo is a pretty cool bike in my book. Wildly heavy for what it is but still very cool.

Thanks for the feedback on bars. I'll be running a 75/150 setup, but would ideally go for a 60. Now if only prowheelbuilder would ship my rims, then I could get my wheels built.


----------



## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

BTG said:


> View attachment 901381


That is scary. I hope you are on good terms with your dentist or ride slow and tame.


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## roz (Mar 4, 2014)

Stan's Just came out with new rims for the 29+ crowd. Want want want for my Krampus!!!!!


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

roz said:


> Stan's Just came out with new rims for the 29+ crowd. Want want want for my Krampus!!!!!


$150 aint bad but think I might go ghetto tubeless when the 27 tpi knards are spent


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## jujuyak (Feb 16, 2008)

Been on my Ops for 2 weeks now and am very happy. It's raining today so I picked up some tubes and gonna try split tube tubeless. Gonna give the brakes a few more rides, but the bb7's don't seem to be up to the task so far. May look for some SHimano's on sale. Thinking about swapping cranks for my Spiderless SRAM with 28t bling ring from my other bike. Considering wolf tooth or one up 40t cog as well.
Rainy days always end up costing me money.


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## roz (Mar 4, 2014)

jujuyak said:


> Been on my Ops for 2 weeks now and am very happy. It's raining today so I picked up some tubes and gonna try split tube tubeless. Gonna give the brakes a few more rides, but the bb7's don't seem to be up to the task so far. May look for some SHimano's on sale. Thinking about swapping cranks for my Spiderless SRAM with 28t bling ring from my other bike. Considering wolf tooth or one up 40t cog as well.
> Rainy days always end up costing me money.


You got any pics? I think for the Krampus, 30t is enough with a 42T or 40T rear cog. 28 might be too small for going faster on the pavement if you ride to your trails.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

jujuyak said:


> I picked up some tubes and gonna try split tube tubeless.


no need for the hassle. one wrap of wide gorilla tape converts them nicely.


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## roz (Mar 4, 2014)

monogod said:


> no need for the hassle. one wrap of wide gorilla tape converts them nicely.


What's under the gorilla tape? Just the rim strip? I want to try this out as well. I Have 2 24 inch tubes too, if that'll help it convert to ghetto.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

roz said:


> What's under the gorilla tape? Just the rim strip?


yep. no issues at all.


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## roz (Mar 4, 2014)

monogod said:


> yep. no issues at all.


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## jujuyak (Feb 16, 2008)

Will use 28t for now because it's what I have. Won't buy 40/42t yet. Just converted front wheel tonite with split tube. Took my compressor and a couple of straps to seat. May try gorilla tape on the rear tomorrow instead. Didn't get around to swapping cranks yet.
No pics yet.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

jujuyak said:


> Just converted front wheel tonite with split tube. Took my compressor and a couple of straps to seat. May try gorilla tape on the rear tomorrow instead. Didn't get around to swapping cranks yet.
> No pics yet.


fwiw, when i converted with gorilla tape all i needed was a floor pump.

let's see some pics!


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

*commercial posting*

Just a quick note that I've dropped the price on my Krampus frameset if anyone is looking for a good price on a big frame in excellent condition:

Surly Krampus 29 frameset, now on SALE! - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

Posted to the krampus with suspension thread too but i'm quite happy with my krampus build now that i've found a suspension fork that happened to fit over my (albiet worn) knards. (Fox Float 32)


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## SourWortBrewer (Jul 11, 2013)

What are you using for that bright green rim strip? love the look.
Cheers.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

SourWortBrewer said:


> What are you using for that bright green rim strip?


Its just some ordinary fluorescent green duct tape I stumbled across in a hardware store. Just meant it as a stopgap until I found something better but I ended up leaving it on..


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## crankpuller (Feb 27, 2004)

Alex.C said:


> Posted to the krampus with suspension thread too but i'm quite happy with my krampus build now that i've found a suspension fork that happened to fit over my (albiet worn) knards. (Fox Float 32)


Prarie View Jewel Pass?
How did the Krampus handle the descent?
I took a hard tail (ragley piglet with 150mm up front) and got my arse handed to me by that trail last summer. The back side was pretty washed out


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

crankpuller said:


> Prarie View Jewel Pass?
> How did the Krampus handle the descent?
> I took a hard tail (ragley piglet with 150mm up front) and got my arse handed to me by that trail last summer. The back side was pretty washed out


Yeah that's the one, it was a fair bit easier than when I had it fully rigid (but tires about as soft as they can go).

Note Jewell Pass is a lot nicer than it used to be, before the flood even, some good work has been done rebuilding the destroyed sections into a flowy descent. Lower Quaite is a mess with the lots of loose rock and logs and a single trail worked into the remains of the old road - it is a lot more interesting that the road used to be though. Upper Quaite is a totally new (or rather reused different bit of old road) that is nothing at all like the old rocky struggle.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

mispost


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## roz (Mar 4, 2014)

I was wondering, do you guys feel like the Salsa Wammy bars are too wide? It's probably just my skills, but I'm having trouble turning on switchbacks on a downhill.


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

A wide handlebar exaggerates how far you reach on turns. That puts your outside arm way out there on a switchback. you should be slightly weighting the outside of the bar when at the apex of a switchback. This helps the tire bite into the dirt, weighting the inside would make it want to push (and slide) to the outside of the turn. A wide bar will exaggerate this effect also. Try this, it really makes a difference. You can always cut a little off your bars, but you cant put it back without buying another. 
I personally don't ride that wide of a bar, but that is because of the narrow trees where I ride. My wife and I do ride a Mountain Tandem on trails with lots of switchbacks, now that gets interesting at times.


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## A. Nony Moose (Aug 18, 2004)

Well it's official, the longer fixed chainstays on the Ops sucks (for me)
It really does affect the way the bike handles and reacts..
Timing it thrown off getting the front wheel over things too, resulting in biffing into rocks instead of landing the front wheel on top of things.
Maybe it climbs better but who cares.. It climbed fine when it was green.
For reference, it was the same exact build on both bikes, I just moved parts from SwampGreen to Ops.
Looks like they'll be going back on the green frame.
Anyone wanna buy a 'used-once' Large Ops frameset?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

A. Nony Moose said:


> Well it's official, the longer fixed chainstays length on the Ops sucks (for me)
> It really does affect the way the bike handles and reacts..


+1 - I bought the smaller of the two frame sizes I could ride and then slammed the axle as far forward as I could to keep the WB short. Krampus rides great that way. Nimble at slow speeds and tons of stability at higher speeds when the big wheels are spinning.

Glad you still had the frame to go back to.


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## EndoRando (Sep 21, 2004)

*Made an Ice Run*

Needed some thousands of years old glacier iceberg ice for the cocktails!

Krampus on Ice 03

And found a perfectly sized piece........Portage Glacier Area, Alaska

Krampus on Ice 04


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Finished the Patapsco 100 mile mountain bike race on my Surly Krampus yesterday. Screw the folks at Dirt Rag that say this bike isn't for epic long rides. 

I started with a stock XL Surly Krampus, but the following modifications:
-regular 29er tubes in place of 3" tubes (duh)
-120 tpi Knard up front (27 tpi still in rear)
-Thomson stem and post
-Preferred Saddle - Forte Classic, old version with single black color.
-On One Fleegle Bar - with bar tape on inner portion for alternate hand position on non-technical climbs.
-ESI Extra Chunky Grips
-Wolftooth 30t W/N chain ring and removed chain keeper
-Shimano XT cranks with extra bb spacer to provide enough clearance for 30t chainring, which sits further inboard due to spider clearing bosses.
-XT cassette with WT 42t cog modificaiton
-Rear wheel: Kris Holm 38mm unicyle rim laced to DT 440 hub, as I wasn't sure the stock Shimano freehub could handle the extra torque of the 42t cog.

Never heard of the race, some would call it the hardest 100 mile race out there due to it being predominately singletrack and technical (for a 100 mile course)
Patapsco 100 The Hardest 100 Miler Ever: The Movie | dirtwire.tv


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I posted this in the Surly Forum as well. I figured it was worth a double post.










Dirt Rag posted this on their FB page:



> A heartfelt congratulations to Montana Miller, former Dirt Rag intern and man-about-town who finished the 2,745-mile Tour Divide race in 22 days, 4 hours-on a singlespeed Surly Krampus, no less. Good work Montucky, you earned that cold beer.


Nice to see what a Krampus is capable of. :thumbsup:

My Krampus is getting loaded up for a week long tour starting in a few days. Far less ambitious compared to Montana's ride, but still totally Krampilicious!


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## Gouda Cheez (Feb 18, 2013)

On a single speed too? Oh man, props to that guy.

Rode my Krampus for the first time in months today. It may be off to a new owner this afternoon. If so, I really enjoyed the last hurrah.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

broke my small krampus and surly sent a new (medium at my request) one right away. excellent service. The medium has much more of a fat bike feel. It's sluggish in the turns and hard to bunnyhop or manual, but it's better on steep downhills.







edit: two water bottle cages make the rebuild and wait worthwhile!


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

Shipped my Krampus out to Oregon yesterday so it will be waiting for me when I get there on Friday. Excited to ride the trails out there, but nervous about having it in the hands of FedEx in the meantime. I packed the crap out of it, but still...

PretendGentle-
How did THAT happen?


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## fleanutz (Jan 29, 2004)

Re subscribing as another Krampus is on its way to me.


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

kdb71 said:


> Shipped my Krampus out to Oregon yesterday so it will be waiting for me when I get there on Friday. Excited to ride the trails out there, but nervous about having it in the hands of FedEx in the meantime. I packed the crap out of it, but still...
> 
> PretendGentle-
> How did THAT happen?


Small world - I'm shipping my Krampus out to Sun Valley tomorrow via Fed Ex to ride trails out there next week. Fingers crossed for both of us!


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

kdb71 said:


> Shipped my Krampus out to Oregon yesterday so it will be waiting for me when I get there on Friday. Excited to ride the trails out there, but nervous about having it in the hands of FedEx in the meantime. I packed the crap out of it, but still...
> 
> PretendGentle-
> How did THAT happen?


Just Riding Along, as they say. I guess this corroborates my claim that I ride hard.


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## stringer4 (Jul 17, 2014)

Is now the "right" time to buy a Krampus?

It sounds like several people in this thread aren't thrilled with the Ops version (and I don't care for the black paint anyway), so I probably won't be getting that one.

Now with many trade shows coming up and new catalogs being released, I'm wondering if I would be a fool to snatch one up now, only to have the latest greatest new version be released soon. Or should I just jump now and get one?

I appreciate any insight from those of you who know the biking world well. Thanks!


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## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

stringer4 said:


> I appreciate any insight from those of you who know the biking world well. Thanks!


I've spoken with some people at various companies, and it sounds to me like there are going to be a ton of 29+ capable frames/bikes coming out in the next 6 months, as well as a ton of new equipment (forks, tires, rims). I've been building up a 29+ in my head for 6 months now, I'm going to wait it out a bit longer, or else I'll be unhappy when all the new gear comes out.


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## SourWortBrewer (Jul 11, 2013)

I got a sweet deal on my Swamp Green Krampus Complete in May. I am super happy with it. And I would get it again based on price alone, but if I could get a 29+ about 4-5lbs lighter for a just a bit more $ I would of gone that route. But I figure if I ride the snot out of the Stock Krampus it will only make me stronger when I get that "Light" 29+ bike, around X-mas 2016...haha. By the way the Geometry on the Krampus is awesome, so it would come down to more then just weight, though.


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## stringer4 (Jul 17, 2014)

Thanks for the replies.

I decided that, as is the case with electronics, there is no perfect time to jump in the game. Better stuff will always come out in the future.

My mountain bike got stolen 6 weeks ago and I've already missed out on too much quality summer riding. Don't know how much longer I can go bikeless.

I went and took an XL Krampus for a test ride and I don't think I've ever enjoyed the feel of a bike more. For the type of riding I'll be doing, I think this will be perfect.

I'll have plenty of time to watch the new stuff come out, and maybe I'll feel compelled to buy the newest hot item at some point in the future. But for now, I'm gonna enjoy the hell out of this Krampus!

Cheers, everyone. Happy riding.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

stringer4 said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> I decided that, as is the case with electronics, there is no perfect time to jump in the game. Better stuff will always come out in the future.
> 
> ...


Good call. Enjoy the hell out of it.


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## Adubb (Jan 9, 2014)

Coloradoxj13 said:


> I've spoken with some people at various companies, and it sounds to me like there are going to be a ton of 29+ capable frames/bikes coming out in the next 6 months, as well as a ton of new equipment (forks, tires, rims). I've been building up a 29+ in my head for 6 months now, I'm going to wait it out a bit longer, or else I'll be unhappy when all the new gear comes out.


Curious what companies you heard are coming out with 29+ ?


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## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

Well, this was posted a few months ago
Vassago Debuts TKO Gravel Road Bike, VerHauen Fat Bike, Optimus Ti 29+ & More!


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

Adubb said:


> Curious what companies you heard are coming out with 29+ ?


the carver titanium gnarvester is on my short list.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Looks like it is time for a 29+ dedicated thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

ale50ale said:


> Looks like it is time for a 29+ dedicated thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I've actually been hoping for a dedicated 29+ subforum, I'm tired of sorting through the 29er forum and FatBike forum for relevant posts.


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## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

Giggity







Via Dicky's FB


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

Coloradoxj13 said:


> Giggity
> View attachment 909003
> 
> Via Dicky's FB


What is this? Need moar info please.


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## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

Taipei Cycle Show First Look: Maxxis Mammoth and Chronicle Fat Bike and 29+ Tires


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Hell yeah, good to hear about the new 29+ products coming out. I was beginning to feel like it had been forgotten.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

Gonna put geax tattoo lites on my krampus and do a couple days of ragbrai next week. Starting the week on dirt in thebranson area. I am pumped up about this shizm report on the tattoos forthcoming.


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## BlueSteel (Apr 18, 2005)

the KING said:


> My new Krampus weight 10,5 kg


Very nice build, and a nice weight, too!


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Adubb said:


> Curious what companies you heard are coming out with 29+ ?


A number of frames have been announced already. As already mentioned, Carver has the Gnarverter, which has been out for a while (I've been riding one for over a year) and Vassago Optimus Ti 29+. Then there's:

Niner: Sneak Peek: Niner to Take on 29+ with new ROS Plus

Singular: Sneak Peek: Singular "Rooster" 29+ Prototype

RSD: First impressions: RSD Mutant 29+ | Dirt Rag (This are just starting to ship)

Also, I believe Bikes Direct is releasing 29+ and a 27.5+ bikes.

New tires on the horizon:

As mentioned, Maxxis Chronicle

Vee Trax Fatty (will be available in 29x3 and 27.5x3.2)

Surly Dirt Wizard

Rims: Notubes announced the Hugo 52mm tubeless rim, will be available in 26, 27.5, & 29 sizes.

That's all I can think of right now, but there's probably more.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

Finally got my first legitimate trail ride on this bike and it rips. Super fun cutting through the woods and it climbs up everything once you hit the right pressure. Not too much fun on the twisty slow stuff but I need to give it another shot.

Follow up question- are most people who have gone suspension getting along ok with the fox F29/float 32 series chassis? I've got a line on an older '11/'12 F29 with FIT cartridge that seems like it would fit the bill. I don't mind the rigidness but I'm unsatisfied with the axle setup... I'm ready to pull the trigger as this last ride really put a smile on my face.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

I've made the move to a Krampus now as well. 

To add to bikeny's list- Carver will also have an AL version of the Gnarvester this fall too. 

Also have heard rumors of at least 5-6 more 29+ tires being at Interbike, possibly including a WTB 29+ tire


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

Good news! I'm really looking forward to a selection of tires. I'm on a custom Edelbikes 29+ built primarily for endurance racing and bikepacking. 


SpoKWerks.com 
Custom bikepacking gear Made in Switzerland
Mettmenstetten, Switzerland


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## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

Another 29+ rim option, if $ is no object
Exclusive First Look: Kuroshiro Takes on 29+ with Hybrid Composite Polymer enso 950
There will certainly be others available in the next year or so, with riders preferring wider and wider rims, all the rim companies are certainly working on this problem. I think the Velocity Dually with have to fit the bill for now.



bikeny said:


> A number of frames have been announced already. As already mentioned, Carver has the Gnarverter, which has been out for a while (I've been riding one for over a year) and Vassago Optimus Ti 29+. Then there's:
> 
> Niner: Sneak Peek: Niner to Take on 29+ with new ROS Plus
> 
> ...


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I just got back from a week of touring on my Krampus in the Chilcotin Mtns [Report -slowly - getting posted over in the Bikepacking Forum]. I spent most of the time riding with my buddy Scott on another 29+ rig.

*Some Krampus/29+ thoughts from the trip:*

- I was stoked about 29+ from previous tours, but now I am 110% sold
- the roll through and traction were both highly appreciated and made up for any extra tire/rim weight in spades
- Knards were excellent 90% of the time
- 10% of the time I wished I had a knobby tire with more side to side grip
- zero flats or hassles setup split tube tubeless
- no Rabbit Hole issues, dings or dents despite running low pressure and more than a few hard impacts on roots/rocks
- 90% of the time I loved the geo of the Krampus
- 10% of the time on steep loose surfaces I wished for a more slacked out front end
- I'm running the rear wheel almost slammed forward for a short wheelbase and that combined with the big tires gives a nice nimble feel at slow speeds, but decent stability at higher speeds
- Rohloff rear wheel was trouble free as usual and was appreciated with all the chunky rocks and thick vegetation the bike got pedalled and pushed through
- I wouldn't mind losing some weight off the bike + camping gear when out on a really demanding trip like this that had me at my physical limit a lot of the time
- bombing smooth to medium rough trails was a blast...despite camping gear...with some careful weight distribution the bike retained a lot of its playfulness and was happy to go faster and faster










*Future Mods/Upgrades:*

- I've vacillated on the idea of getting a custom 29+ frame [maybe Ti], but I am more and more stoked on the Krampus
- it rides so well for me that I'm concerned I might spend a bunch of $$ and either not get enough benefit or worse yet actually not like the ride as much as my Krampus
- so that idea is dead for now...I'll tweak the Krampus and keep riding it until something really convinces me it will be significantly better
- I'm going to get the 100mm Reba I modded installed on the Krampus and give it a proper test
- if the Fox 29+ fork that's headed our way comes in a 120mm or 140mm flavour I can see getting one and slacking out the front end of my Krampus that extra degree or so that will make it more confident on the steeps
- I'm going to start replacing some of the utilitarian parts [ie Deore cranks/BB] with some nicer and lighter parts
- I'm thinking a lighter duty wheel set [maybe Light Bicycle 35mm rims + Hope hubs] that can be setup geared or SS might be nice to have for times when the Rohloff + Rabbit Holes are overkill
- having two wheel sets and two forks will make it easy to dial in the bike for each mission I go on
- I'll try out some new more aggressive 29+ tires when some ***finally*** become available...










Although I've got some ideas for tweaks I'm pleased that my Krampus is such a great touring/adventure bike in its current configuration. I could really leave it as is and keep riding it for many years without being able to complain very much at all.

But being a tinkerer I'm not going to be able to leave it alone.


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## Ridefat1981 (Mar 17, 2014)

Thinking about building a krampus SS. I have a mostly stock krampus already that I switch to single speed from time to time. It is time to go full time SS. throw some ideas my way.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Question for all of you 29+ riders: Any idea what size CO2 cartridge I need to get a 29x3 tire up to riding pressure, like 15 PSI? 

Yes, I got a flat the other day and only had a 16g cartridge with me. No, it was not close to getting my tire ride-able. Yes, stupid on my part. I gave up carrying a pump years ago when I switched to NoTube rims because flats were so few and far between. So I've been riding my Knards for over a year without issue until last week. Currently running tubes in them, but looking forward to some better tubeless options soon. So, what's the best option? Would a 25g cartridge be enough (I suspect not)? Carry 2 16g? Any other suggestions welcome!

Also, What happened to those Genuine Innovation Big Air cartridges?

Thanks,
Mark


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bikeny said:


> Any other suggestions welcome!


I rarely get flats, but I always carry a pump. Often it gets used to help someone else out.

Unless I am close enough to home/car to walk back in 5-10mins I wouldn't ride without a pump.

Even if you have enough CO2 it only takes one misfire to leave you walking. My CO2 inflater just died at home as I was setting up a tire tubeless with it. It had maybe 10 uses.


----------



## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

vikb said:


> I rarely get flats, but I always carry a pump. Often it gets used to help someone else out.
> 
> Unless I am close enough to home/car to walk back in 5-10mins I wouldn't ride without a pump.
> 
> Even if you have enough CO2 it only takes one misfire to leave you walking. My CO2 inflater just died at home as I was setting up a tire tubeless with it. It had maybe 10 uses.


Thanks for the response. I guess I should have given a little more info on my normal rides. Most are under 2 hours in well used parks. Anything longer or more remote I always carry a pump too. My road bike has a frame pump permanently mounted!

Flats have just become such a non-issue (less than 1/year) that I ditched the pump long ago for my local rides. I'm sure I just jinxed myself and will have to carry a pump again!


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

Anyone experience that Avid mechs on the original krampus complete dont get the job done? 

I am a beefy 220 pounds and I was beyond flat out on a rolling, undulating, straight. I was on the hairy edge of being out of control all the while smashing my brake levers trying to get a little slower as I noticed some rocks that would be potential stoppers. I dont think I have ever gone that fast on singletrack. Goddammit, that krampus rolls fast. I knew it was curtains for me and, potential realized, got shot OTB sort of like a rocket into the side of a hill/rocks as my bike landed beside me and I laid there, listening to the hiss of air pissing out of my front tire (stock tubes and a pinch flat). Other than than little incident, the bike / tire combo is like glue. I love that bike. I want another crack at that trail - 7 hours away  - this time with a hydro disc upgrade, tubeless, and some more trail wisdom. I was over my head, technically and physically. I love that bike.


----------



## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

I have had BB7s that both feel incredible and terrible. A friend had a setup on his DH bike that was similarly powerful to most brakes from a few years ago. I've had sets on a pugsley and a Prophet and they were both very mediocre. Not sure what the secret is...so I just pitched em for shimanos.


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## shrouded (Jul 8, 2013)

Adjusting the BB7s helps a lot: check http://howtosetuptheavidbb7.weebly.com/how-to-set-up-the-avid-bb7.html

Still, taking them off for hydros is the best upgrade I've done on any bike.


----------



## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

I've found over time that the right lever combo and cable/housing combo makes a huge difference with the BB7s.

I greatly prefer the cane creek direct curve levers and the Jagwire Ripcord cable/housing kits on my bikes.


----------



## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

sandwich said:


> I have had BB7s that both feel incredible and terrible. A friend had a setup on his DH bike that was similarly powerful to most brakes from a few years ago. I've had sets on a pugsley and a Prophet and they were both very mediocre. Not sure what the secret is...so I just pitched em for shimanos.





shrouded said:


> Adjusting the BB7s helps a lot: check http://howtosetuptheavidbb7.weebly.com/how-to-set-up-the-avid-bb7.html
> 
> Still, taking them off for hydros is the best upgrade I've done on any bike.





nitrousjunky said:


> I've found over time that the right lever combo and cable/housing combo makes a huge difference with the BB7s.
> 
> I greatly prefer the cane creek direct curve levers and the Jagwire Ripcord cable/housing kits on my bikes.


Thanks. I should of been a little more dilligent in the equipment check. I get an adjustment and cable check will help a lot, just never need it much on my local trails compared to where I visited. I will check out the levers and price out a shimano upgrade.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

boogar73 said:


> Thanks. I should of been a little more dilligent in the equipment check. I get an adjustment and cable check will help a lot, just never need it much on my local trails compared to where I visited. I will check out the levers and price out a shimano upgrade.


ALSO FYI those CC levers will be hard to find, but the Avid levers mated to Ripcords work well too.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Interestingly Fox's new 29er Float 36 fork is lighter than the Float 34 version.

If anyone gets there hands on one and can test fit a Knard + Rabbit Hole I'd be interested to see if they fit with decent clearance.

36 FLOAT 150 FIT RC2 Bike Fork | FOX


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

hugecgar said:


> personal experience owning a Surly Krampus (06/07/13 - ???)


is this real or just spam? There's no words.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

sandwich said:


> is this real or just spam? There's no words.


There's some pictures on a page of some different topicsn the titles are linked but take you to a bs page. Spam.


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## shrouded (Jul 8, 2013)

*Another Lefty*

Add another Krampus to the Lefty club. I got my first rides on it today, and it was a blast. After I got used to how it felt I loved it. I've been growing my skills into taking more rugged downhills, and I really think the bike setup as it is now is doing a good job offsetting my lack of skill. It really is stable and forgiving.

The weight of the entire setup wore me out a bit on the climbs compared to my friends on carbon frames; I'm wondering what my options will be for dropping more weight. Maybe the upcoming Stan's rims will help. This is a 100mm XLR fork, with the Project 321 tapered steerer, with the headset from Surly's complete build. I'm running Rabbit Holes, ghetto tubeless with Knards, and there's plenty of clearance after dishing it over just a bit.


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

You'll have to turn into a normal 29er to drop any significant weight unless you swap the frame for one that probably doesn't exist.


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## shrouded (Jul 8, 2013)

I was wondering how much proper tubeless on a lighter rim like the Stan's Hope would be.

Any guesses how much weight the same frame geometry in Ti would save?

Let's be honest, though... I just need to get stronger.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've been thinking about lightening my Krampus as well as my touring gear that it carries.

Going to a Ti or AL frame can save 1lb +/- 0.5lbs. A Carver Gnarvester is ~4lbs.

- my main issue with this is cost and I like the way the Krampus rides so I might spend a bunch of $$ to get a frame I don't love as much

Carbon rims [35mm LB] are 420g and will save you ~280g/wheel.

Tubeless will save you a fair bit depending on what your tubes weigh and what tubeless method you go with.

On my Krampus I can save a bunch of weight in these places:

- swap WTB saddle for Brooks B17 = save 250g
- carbon cranks for deore cranks = save 400-500g
- carbon bar for AL bar = save 100-150g
- SS for Rohloff = save 1500g

After that I have to work on my camping gear:

- step 1 what don't 1 need and can just leave at home?
- step 2 what can I replace with lighter items?

As you can see almost all of these options cost $$$$ so it depends how much that matters to you.


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

vikb said:


> On my Krampus I can save a bunch of weight in these places:
> 
> - swap WTB saddle for Brooks B17 = save 250g
> - carbon cranks for deore cranks = save 400-500g
> ...


Don't forget the fork. I think I dropped close to a pound with the White Brothers/MRP fork, and while it's far from the lightest on the market you can often get them for a great price. It rides really well.


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## shrouded (Jul 8, 2013)

sanjuanswan said:


> Don't forget the fork. I think I dropped close to a pound with the White Brothers/MRP fork, and while it's far from the lightest on the market you can often get them for a great price. It rides really well.


The White Bros fork is great. I took it off to put the Lefty on this week because I'm doing progressively more aggressive stuff with friends. If I hadn't stumbled on a good deal on the Lefty I would have stuck with the White Bros & been happy.

By the way, if anyone wants a White Bros fork that will hold a Rabbit Hole & Knard, let me know.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sanjuanswan said:


> Don't forget the fork. I think I dropped close to a pound with the White Brothers/MRP fork, and while it's far from the lightest on the market you can often get them for a great price. It rides really well.


Good point.

I'm headed for a suspension fork so I didn't think I'd save any weight there vs. a 2.5lb stock Krampus fork.

For touring use I'm not interested in a rigid carbon fork when I go rigid. I beat up on my rig too much to feel good about that.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

shrouded said:


> The White Bros fork is great. I took it off to put the Lefty on this week because I'm doing progressively more aggressive stuff with friends. If I hadn't stumbled on a good deal on the Lefty I would have stuck with the White Bros & been happy.
> 
> By the way, if anyone wants a White Bros fork that will hold a Rabbit Hole & Knard, let me know.


What kind of riding are you doing that the white bros. fork won't handle? I want to go to a carbon fork to have a little give up front and lighten it up a little. Might have a buyer here....


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## shrouded (Jul 8, 2013)

boogar73 said:


> What kind of riding are you doing that the white bros. fork won't handle? I want to go to a carbon fork to have a little give up front and lighten it up a little. Might have a buyer here....


Oh, the White Bros fork handles everything. I'm clearly the limiting factor, not the bike. Yesterday I tried what I'm told are the rockiest steep descents in my area, on my first ride with the Lefty. With the rigid fork I would have needed a lot more skill in picking lines; I'm not sure I'm there yet. With 100mm of travel + knards I was able to barrel through more. A friend test ride it and said it was cheating.

I do still like the White Bros vs stock.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

shrouded said:


> Oh, the White Bros fork handles everything. I'm clearly the limiting factor, not the bike. Yesterday I tried what I'm told are the rockiest steep descents in my area, on my first ride with the Lefty. With the rigid fork I would have needed a lot more skill in picking lines; I'm not sure I'm there yet. With 100mm of travel + knards I was able to barrel through more. A friend test ride it and said it was cheating.
> 
> I do still like the White Bros vs stock.


I dont think it is cheating, haha. Ride what you like or suits your level. Srs about selling that fork?


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

Ah, for some reason I thought you were committed to rigid. I have a suspension fork on mine now too, but I'm keeping the WB fork in case I end up doing a long mostly-road ride on the Krampus.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

shrouded said:


> I was wondering how much proper tubeless on a lighter rim like the Stan's Hope would be.
> 
> Any guesses how much weight the same frame geometry in Ti would save?
> 
> Let's be honest, though... I just need to get stronger.


cranks are going to save some weight...pedals...120tpi knards vs. 27...lighter tubes or tubeless...carbon post, lighter saddle...it's going to be little things, piece by piece to get it down.

I'm not sure how much mine weighs...it's definitely bad though, cost nor weight wise. I'm running mostly XT, duallies, king hub, midweight components, stock fork, 120tpi tires and standard tubes. I'd think by getting rid of the cheap stuff, you'll get down quickly.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

Get rid of the pesky geared drivetrain. You'll save some weight and then get stronger. It's a virtuous cycle!


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

CCSS said:


> Get rid of the pesky geared drivetrain. You'll save some weight and then get stronger. It's a virtuous cycle!


+1


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

CCSS said:


> Get rid of the pesky geared drivetrain. You'll save some weight and then get stronger. It's a virtuous cycle!


My thought with building up a 2nd wheel set was to use Hope hubs that could be run with a 1x derailleur or SS and the original wheel set I have is IGH so I'd have lots of choice.

On my recent tour the climbs were mostly hike-a-bike and the descents were steep hang on for dear life affairs so I really only needed a level/rolling terrain gear. SS would have worked just fine. :thumbsup:


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

I play soccer twice a week and try to ride 3 times a week. I'm in decent shape. Normally I really only use 2 or 3 gears when riding trails here in Ohio and could probably get away with single speed. 
However I just got back form a trip to Oregon and I don't see how anyone could ride some of those trails with a SS. Not just on the ridiculous climbs to get to some of the trail heads (which is why I'm glad I added a 42T before I left), but on the trails I couldn't fathom how one gear could be useful. I'd think you'd be working way too hard either free spinning or grinding away most of the time. But...I've never ridden SS so what do I know? I suppose like anything else you would get used to it if you did it all the time.
As much as I love my ridgid Krampus I missed suspension at times. I made it out alive, but would have been able to run through many sections much faster with a front shock. Going ridgid does keep you honest on picking your lines though.
I do have 2 wheelsets: one Rabbit Hole / Knard / ultralight tubes and one Stans / Hope / Schwalbe 29*2.35 tubeless. Love the flexibility of being able to swap them out in seconds for different conditions. Off the top of my head I think the Stans set saves me almost 2 pounds. I'll be going tubeless on the Knards too when I get around to it.
My L Krampus stock was almost 34 pounds. Now with the Stans it's 26 something pounds and under 29 with the Knards. Just the lighter tubes on the Knards offer substantial weight savings. 
Other than wheels saved a ton of weight with carbon fork, seatpost and bars (although I'm only 160 pounds and keep it mellow when bikepacking). Lesser savings, but cumulatively relevant from lighter cranks, saddle, stem, chain, etc... It all adds up (or down, I guess).


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## shrouded (Jul 8, 2013)

I'm with kdb71 on the SS option. I'm already having to hike-a-bike on some trails with 32x42 here. SS would kill me.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

shrouded said:


> I'm with kdb71 on the SS option. I'm already having to hike-a-bike on some trails with 32x42 here. SS would kill me.


Personally I wouldn't SS it all the time, but on the trip I just completed most of the climbs were HAB anyways so it didn't matter what your low gear was and I don't need to pedal on steep descents so that just leaves/flattish rolling terrain.

If you build up a rear wheel with a normal hub you can run it SS with spacers or and a 1x dérailleur setup with minimal hassles depending on what the riding at hand was.


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## Truman#1 (Aug 19, 2013)

Sorry for what is probably a duh type of question but I'm looking to swap out my bars on the Krampus for an alt bar to be determined. What clamp size do I need? 25.4 or 31.8?

I did look at my spec sheet but couldn't locate that piece of info.
thanks in advance!


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## non-conformist (Jan 27, 2008)

31,8


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## fatlip11 (Aug 24, 2011)

So, for you XL riders, what length stem are you running? I am getting ready to make some upgrades, I am 6'5" and have a 0 degree 90mm on it but I am thinking I might try a shorter version, maybe 70? Thanks!


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## Truman#1 (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks for that info!


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

Truman#1 said:


> Sorry for what is probably a duh type of question but I'm looking to swap out my bars on the Krampus for an alt bar to be determined. What clamp size do I need? 25.4 or 31.8?
> 
> I did look at my spec sheet but couldn't locate that piece of info.
> thanks in advance!


See surly website for krampus complete parts spec. Non-conformist is correct.


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## bb1mina (Feb 10, 2008)

My stock krampus came with a salsa bar that uses 31.8. However, most alt bars use the older standard 25.4. You might have to swap out stems too, not a big problem.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Vee Rubber Trax Fatty 29x3.0" tires are now available. Has anybody picked up a set yet? I'd love to see some real-world pics and experience.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Vee Rubber Trax Fatty 29x3.0" tires are now available. Has anybody picked up a set yet? I'd love to see some real-world pics and experience.


Mounted one up, at first it looked like it cleared in my Fox 32 RLC, but it stretched overnight and looks about identical in size to the Knard. I don't have a RH/Knard set up at the moment for comparisons, but here's what I got on the caliper:

OK, ignore this part now. I took new readings:
Trax Fatty/RH combo - 2.98" wide, 3.40" from the inside of the rim to the outside of the tire - rubs the arch of the fork the same way the Knard did.
Minion 2.5/RH combo - 2.59" wide, 2.97" from the inside of the rim to the outside of the tire

The Vee has to go back to the store for now, if it don't clear the fork I ain't riding it. Waiting for my Hugo wheelset to arrive before I make any final decisions on which fork to stick with and whether to dremel.

Let some air out, it shrunk maybe a sixteenth or so, but still not quite clearing anything.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

vikb said:


> If you build up a rear wheel with a normal hub you can run it SS with spacers or and a 1x dérailleur setup with minimal hassles depending on what the riding at hand was.


yup. i run an avid matchmaker and full length housing on my 1x10, and have two separate chains. allows conversion of my ops from geared to ss in under 15 minutes.


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Vee Rubber Trax Fatty 29x3.0" tires are now available. Has anybody picked up a set yet? I'd love to see some real-world pics and experience.


I'm interested, too. At $90/tire they better be at least as good as the forthcoming Chronicle and Dirt Wizard...


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

hirschmj said:


> Mounted one up, at first it looked like it cleared in my Fox 32 RLC, but it stretched overnight and looks about identical in size to the Knard. I don't have a RH/Knard set up at the moment for comparisons, but here's what I got on the caliper:
> 
> Trax Fatty/RH combo - 2.98" wide, 3.40" from the inside of the rim to the outside of the tire - rubs the arch of the fork the same way the Knard did.
> Minion 2.5/RH combo - 2.59" wide, 2.97" from the inside of the rim to the outside of the tire
> ...


That sounds good to me that's it's around the same size as the Knard. Did you weight it? Which version did you get, folding, Silica, 120tpi?


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

did anybody else see this? el super nice-o


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

bikeny said:


> That sounds good to me that's it's around the same size as the Knard. Did you weight it? Which version did you get, folding, Silica, 120tpi?


I didn't weigh it, but the bike shop owner weighed another one and said it's under 900g. Folding, 120tpi is the only flavor I've seen.

The measurements I took before were with like 40 psi in there because I was trying to get it to stretch without riding it so it'd be pretty enough to return. When I dropped it back to 17 psi it changed significantly, and now fits in a 32 RLC! Here are the new measurements, all at 17 psi:

Knard:
3.175" wide, 3.316 from the inside of the rim to the outside of the tire
Vee:
2.874" wide, 3.286" tall
Minion DHF:
2.59" wide, 2.97" tall

You should probably ignore that last significant figure. There's no way I'm that accurate and there's no way the tolerances are that fine.

There's now about as much clearance above the tire as the little rubber hairs, about 3mm? Close enough for me, I'm riding it tomorrow and we'll see how she do.


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## dsjackson (Apr 5, 2014)

Yo, for anyone running a rohloff on your kramp: how much did the rohloff cost you? The hub, cables, shifters - all of it together. 

Thanks,
D.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

dsjackson said:


> Yo, for anyone running a rohloff on your kramp: how much did the rohloff cost you? The hub, cables, shifters - all of it together.
> 
> Thanks,
> D.


The Rohloff in my Krampus was bought quite a few years ago and is now in bike #3. I paid ~$1400 for the whole thing.

If I recall correctly the external shift box version of the hub comes with everything you need except for:

- Monkey Bone [torque control]
- OEM2 axle plate
- Rohloff disc rotor
- QR

It's been a while so my memory may not be 100% on that.

I've heard folks chat about getting Rohloff's cheap direct from Germany, but I have not investigated that myself.\

BTW - if I was buying a new Rohloff for my Krampus I would get the threaded axle version that bolts on vs. the QR version. It's just easier to use as you don't need any tugnuts to keep the hub in place.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

hirschmj said:


> I'm riding it tomorrow and we'll see how she do.


I dig the tire. There's definitely some self steer there at 16 PSI, but it's almost a good kind of self steer? Like you lean it a little and it wants to lean more, it doesn't want to turn half-assed. It rolls fast and it grips better than the Knard. We'll see how that translates into wear, but I was filled with confidence on the descents. Felt good to put 3" tires back on the bike. I've been running Minions, and while they're real stable and work well on 50mm rims you don't roll over stuff like you do with the fat tires. I'm a fan, might have to look into getting one for the rear.


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## jujuyak (Feb 16, 2008)

Mounted new 120 tpi knard a yesterday with split tubes. Much harder than with the 27 tpi I have been running tubeless. One blew off when I got psi to about 20 covering my entire garage in stans. Didn't do to much for my hearing either. Now I'm considering lacing up my old FLows. Anyone gone from RH to narrower rim? How did it change the ride?


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

picked up new krampus this morning. went into lbs last week to look at stems they had 3 of them on the floor all 50% off. could not believe it. said they werent getting any interest. worked out of town all week could not get there till this morning. had tried the large was going to try the medium today to make sure. someone else made the choice for me. just got back from first ride(seven miles of old skidder trails choppings etc. I LOVE IT.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

jujuyak said:


> Mounted new 120 tpi knard a yesterday with split tubes. Much harder than with the 27 tpi I have been running tubeless. One blew off when I got psi to about 20 covering my entire garage in stans. Didn't do to much for my hearing either. Now I'm considering lacing up my old FLows. Anyone gone from RH to narrower rim? How did it change the ride?


That's interesting. I've had 3 120 tpi tires I've run tubeless on the rear and they all worked well (no burping) until I cut too many small holes in the sidewall at the bead from bottoming the tire out. The 2 27tpi tires I had burped all of the time right off the bat.


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## frozenmonkey (Apr 30, 2012)

vikb said:


> I just got back from a week of touring on my Krampus in the Chilcotin Mtns [Report -slowly - getting posted over in the Bikepacking Forum]. I spent most of the time riding with my buddy Scott on another 29+ rig.
> 
> *Some Krampus/29+ thoughts from the trip:*
> 
> ...


Hey Vik,
Just wondering if you're still happy with the Medium Krampus? I know you've said either the M or L would work for you, but somewhere on here I'm pretty sure you said if you did it again you'd go with the large. I'm asking b/c I've got a LG myself which fits fine, and it rips of course, but I've got about the same measurements as you for fit, and I'll always be curious about the smaller more flickable MEDIUM (couldn't test one at time of purchase). The limiting factor maybe is that I've come to enjoy the short stem/wide bar combo and I'm not sure how short I could go stem-wise on the MED. I'd definitely have to run a setback post. Any new thoughts on this one? (apologies, I know this sizing thing has been flogged forever).

Cheers.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

jujuyak said:


> Now I'm considering lacing up my old FLows. Anyone gone from RH to narrower rim? How did it change the ride?


I went the other way - old narrower Flows to RHs with same 120 tpi Knards.

The Knards felt vague on the Flows and more precise on the RHs. I used them bikepacking mostly.

I wouldn't go back to skinny rims.

FWIW - I set up my 120 tpi Knards on RHs tubeless with no issues. You do need to get the bead down into position with the split tube or I can see it popping off.

So if that is your only issue with the RHs I would give them another shot tubeless.

vikapproved | Surly Knard & Rabbit Hole Tubeless?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

frozenmonkey said:


> Hey Vik,
> Just wondering if you're still happy with the Medium Krampus? I know you've said either the M or L would work for you, but somewhere on here I'm pretty sure you said if you did it again you'd go with the large. I'm asking b/c I've got a LG myself which fits fine, and it rips of course, but I've got about the same measurements as you for fit, and I'll always be curious about the smaller more flickable MEDIUM (couldn't test one at time of purchase). The limiting factor maybe is that I've come to enjoy the short stem/wide bar combo and I'm not sure how short I could go stem-wise on the MED. I'd definitely have to run a setback post. Any new thoughts on this one? (apologies, I know this sizing thing has been flogged forever).
> 
> Cheers.


From a riding/handling point of view I really like the medium's short wheelbase and I ride with the axle slammed as much as possible with my IGH.

From a carrying stuff point of view I'd prefer the larger frame and bigger space for a frame bag. I might like the way the large rides just as much, but without trying one I can't say.

Another way to slice this is I have considered upgrading to a custom 29+ to get a higher TT [bigger frame bag] while keeping the short wheelbase. Aside from the cost I'm concerned I won't like it as much as I do my Krampus.

I like the medium enough that it's feeling foolish to mess with success.

Sorry that's not very helpful. 

Two suggestions are:

1. put it out of your mind and enjoy the great bike

or

2. buy a med frame and ride both....sell the one you like least for $100-$200 loss and consider that a reasonable cost to put the question to bed


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## jujuyak (Feb 16, 2008)

Thanks vikb,
I'm not sure what I did the first time, but I started over the next day and everything aired up just fine and I've had no problems on the trail. Probably, late night operator error the first time. 

I'm constantly tinkering with my bikes though. Considering some LB wide carbon rims now...or Hugo's when they are released. I can never leave well enough alone.


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## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

ELECTRIC_YETI said:


> picked up new krampus this morning. went into lbs last week to look at stems they had 3 of them on the floor all 50% off. could not believe it. said they werent getting any interest. worked out of town all week could not get there till this morning. had tried the large was going to try the medium today to make sure. someone else made the choice for me. just got back from first ride(seven miles of old skidder trails choppings etc. I LOVE IT.


woah, great score!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

jujuyak said:


> I'm constantly tinkering with my bikes though. Considering some LB wide carbon rims now...or Hugo's when they are released. I can never leave well enough alone.


I've got 35mm LB carbon rims on my 650B FS bike. They are quite nice. I'm holding out until they make a set that's 40mm wide in a 29er version for the Krampus.

Then I'll have the RH+Rohloff setup and a LB carbon + Hope hub [1x geared or SS] setup for lightweight missions.


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## Slash5 (Nov 27, 2011)

Just got a Krampus last weekend. Was on a vacation trip and walked into a store the had a single medium Krampus marked about $600 off list. Couldn't resist and bought it after a test ride. Frame is a bit small for me but with a long seat post and a 10 degree stem it feels great. Ride rigid a lot and already have a Pugsley.
Having a ball with the bike. Replaced the front chainring with a 30T narrow wide and removed the chain guide right away. Replaced the wide bars today after my second crash caused by the bars.


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## roz (Mar 4, 2014)

Well, I rode with a friend today. We rode to the trail, and the second my bike hit dirt, it vacuumed a crap ton of goat heads. Time to move on to tubeless.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

Anybody know (1) if the Tubus Vega 29er rack will fit on a Krampus with Rabbit Holes and Knards and (2) if one can get it in the US?


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

Never mind; now I see that the Vega 29er rack does not fit. I probably should just go with the little Revelate Pika.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Has anyone tried Knards on the 35mm LB carbon rims? Wondering how they go as I have a Rohloff hub in a box, but would like to be able to use ~50-something mm tyres, without having to rebuild the wheel. Thanks! (And thanks for the TR Vik.)

Later,
Stephen


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## mowabb (Dec 9, 2011)

The Krampus Team, from Barcelona.


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## mowabb (Dec 9, 2011)

...


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## mlacey (Sep 1, 2011)

Alright Krampus team!


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

In case anyone's interested, LB will be coming out with a 38mm wide x 32mm deep carbon rim in about 2 months, according to an email received from them today. No word on anything wider...


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

satanas said:


> In case anyone's interested, LB will be coming out with a 38mm wide x 32mm deep carbon rim in about 2 months, according to an email received from them today. No word on anything wider...


Really, 38mm? That makes no sense to me, it's only 3mm wider than a bunch of rims that are already out there. If they don't want to go for the full 50mm rim, something in the 40mm to 45mm range would be perfect.


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## hugecgar (Jan 28, 2014)

*New Upgrades*

Centerline Rotors and Race Face Cinch


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

I joined the Krampus Kroud this week. I was waiting for an rsd mutant frame but got tired of all the delays. I knew I liked the Krampus, so I just had the dealer get me that instead.
I just got back from my first decent ride on it and I am very pleased. I am running duallies with knards and once I got the pressure set low enough they feel great.I started at about 18 psi because I was worried about burping but they were too firm so I dropped them about 2 lbs and they haven't burped yet. I am running the through axles and don't mind the longer chainstay length that requires. 
Gearing is 1 x 10 with a 28 tooth direct mount and 11-42 using an e-13 cog and a 16 tooth to replace the 15, to avoid the 15-19 jump. I am going to have to rotate the 16 because it doesn't pick up the 19 easily. that's what happens when you fool with mother shimano. 
Bike is great I just need to make a few tweeks , but that is what I do...


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## Slash5 (Nov 27, 2011)

So normally I can't ride a skinny if my life depended on it. I ride a curb at the local park just for practice and always fall off it. On my Krampus I can ride the curb end to end about 90% of the time. Plus track stands are much easier.
Is that due to the relaxed geometry of the Krampus or is it just the wide tires?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

I've been on my Dually wheelset for a few months now, looking to sell off my complete Rabbit Hole wheelset. I've tried to sell locally with little interest. Figured I'd try here next, PM for details!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Just noticed the fabled Dirt Wizard 29+ tire is being listed as a 3.0" instead of a 2.75".

Not that it matters much until you can actually buy one...


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

Why would someone prefer Duallies to Rabbit Holes (or vice versa) and why would someone prefer Dirt Wizards to Knards (or vice versa)?


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

the other Anne said:


> Why would someone prefer Duallies to Rabbit Holes (or vice versa) and why would someone prefer Dirt Wizards to Knards (or vice versa)?


In my case, I went with a non-marked Northpaw for weight instead of the Rabbit Hole and I've also got a Dually which is even lighter, not to mention far, far easier to set up tubeless which gives me a better ride and is yet again lighter.

As far as another tire than the Knard... the Knards wear surprisingly fast, especially when bikepacking and are way sketchy in even the slightest bit of mud. It'd be nice to have options in any case.


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> I've been on my Dually wheelset for a few months now, looking to sell off my complete Rabbit Hole wheelset. I've tried to sell locally with little interest. Figured I'd try here next, PM for details!


what's the real world, seat of the pants difference?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

the other Anne said:


> Why would someone prefer Duallies to Rabbit Holes (or vice versa) and why would someone prefer Dirt Wizards to Knards (or vice versa)?


Duallies are lighter without cutouts, makes for easier toobless conversions and they're twin walled instead of single walled, which to my mind makes for a stronger rim.

Dirt wizards are knobbies. Knards are kind of semi slicks. Knards are fair tires for "go forward" traction, but really drop off when it comes to braking and cornering. They're not a bad all around tire, but I think this bike is going to be much more capable with a good set of knobbies, which is really saying a lot!


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## hugecgar (Jan 28, 2014)

the other Anne said:


> Why would someone prefer Duallies to Rabbit Holes (or vice versa) and why would someone prefer Dirt Wizards to Knards (or vice versa)?


I rode my Krampus for a year with the stock wheel set setup - I decided to invest more recently as I am loving the bike so far.

Upgraded after 1yr to Duallys - Tubeless with 27TPI Knards

IMO - The bike is FAR more nimble while turning, ramping speed, and getting air. Noticeable immediately after cutting the weight of the Tubes and Rabbit Hole rims.

I am testing tubeless with the 27TPI now, and going to try out the even lighter 127TPI soon. My main concern is with rigidity versus weight. I am extremely happy with the weight and durability ratio now.

To answer your Knard vs Dirt Wizard question - Dirt Wizards have better traction on dirt. Knards good traction on dirt but I can still ride it 30 miles down a paved bike path no problem. Personally I don't think Dirt Wizards would be comfortable on faster longer rides, or as a commuter tire.


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## csmo (Aug 11, 2012)

But if you go with Duallys you cannot do cool things with your rim strip!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

1 Speed said:


> I've also got a Dually which is even lighter, not to mention far, far easier to set up tubeless which gives me a better ride and is yet again lighter.


Interesting my two friends with Dually's found them problematic to setup tubeless.

Anyone setup Knards tubeless on the new hookless carbon rims from LB and similar companies? How did they work?


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

*Chasing my Krampus up sunday river*

what a blast. really fast, sometimes scary. ran out of talent a couple of times, but that is half the fun. this thing is more fun evry time i ride it. even for an old fat guy


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Joining the club. Build will probably take a while. I'm not in a hurry as I am currently nursing a broken hand from a bad crash a few weeks back.

Now that my fleet includes a Banshee and a Krampus, I am a little scared to go down into the basement.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

ELECTRIC_YETI said:


> what a blast. really fast, sometimes scary. ran out of talent a couple of times, but that is half the fun. this thing is more fun evry time i ride it. even for an old fat guy


you are a brave man


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

i set up 120 tpi knards a while ago on rabbit holes ghetto tubeless with absolutely no hardship. i used conti 26" light tubes (the cores are removable and the rubber is thin, so it ends up being about 75g or so iirc once they are trimmed (i kept the rim strip from surly, but no tape), then used 60ml revo sealant and they set up pop pop with a track pump. no issues since (months/hundreds miles).


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

AOK, can you weigh your frame? Or anyone in the know, what is the weight of the large frame only?


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

SyT said:


> AOK, can you weigh your frame? Or anyone in the know, what is the weight of the large frame only?


Bare frame (large) + seat clamp = 2810 grams / 6.19 lbs

Stock fork (uncut steerer) was 1150 grams / 2.54 lbs


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Much appreciated.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

hugecgar said:


> IMO - The bike is FAR more nimble while turning, ramping speed, and getting air. Noticeable immediately after cutting the weight of the Tubes and Rabbit Hole rims.


Umm, the rabbit hole rims seem to only be 24 grams lighter per rim. That's 0.1 lbs for two rims on a bike. 
Wheels | Parts and Accessories | Surly Bikes
Velocity Wheels

You said stock setup, so does that mean you were running the 3" tubes? If you so, you probably could get near the same weight savings by just ditching them for regular 29er tubes.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I need a new headset lower cup for my Krampus as I want to install a tapered suspension fork in place of the stock rigid 1 1/8" fork.

Is the Cane Creek 40 bottom traditional EC44/40 1.5" cup the correct one?


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

That should be the right bottom cups, but if the cups are ok you can just get the crown race. the bearings are the same. You can interchange the forks with different steerer sizes because the bearing surface on the 1 1/8 crown race is spread toward the outside to be in the same place as the 1 1/2. does that make sense? it works well.
Crown race is around $10. bottom cups almost $40.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

mactweek said:


> That should be the right bottom cups, but if the cups are ok you can just get the crown race. the bearings are the same. You can interchange the forks with different steerer sizes because the bearing surface on the 1 1/8 crown race is spread toward the outside to be in the same place as the 1 1/2. does that make sense? it works well.
> Crown race is around $10. bottom cups almost $40.


Thanks. 

I built my Krampus from the frame up and I used a different headset so I do need the new lower cup, but good point on being able to use the stock fork with a larger crown race.

I'm not 100% if I'll go back to rigid, but it's good to have an easy option. :thumbsup:


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

Loving my new krampus ops. I've got over 100 miles on it in a couple of weeks riding. We have had a lot of rain lately, the trails are getting rutty rocky and the sand is washing into the low spots. perfect for the big meats. I'm surprised how well it climbs, I'm 62 years old but had no trouble climbing over 4500 ' on it. Didn't seem any heavier than my 29er. Must be that "New Bike"thing.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

Thinking about putting a moonlander fork/holy rolling darryl/4" tire up front on my krampus to get some winter riding in some snow this winter. Looking like $600 project. 2 questions: worth it? & how bad will the 1.5" drop in the front end due to diameter diff + squishier tire affect handling? Anyone done something similar?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

boogar73 said:


> Thinking about putting a moonlander fork/holy rolling darryl/4" tire up front on my krampus to get some winter riding in some snow this winter. Looking like $600 project. 2 questions: worth it? & how bad will the 1.5" drop in the front end due to diameter diff + squishier tire affect handling? Anyone done something similar?


A ML fork is 1.4" shorter than a Krampus fork and the smaller diameter tire will make for a much steeper front end.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

vikb said:


> A ML fork is 1.4" shorter than a Krampus fork and the smaller diameter tire will make for a much steeper front end.


Yeah that drop is going to make it pretty brutal. Are we talking a drop of almost 3" overall including ml fork + tire diameter decrease? Sounds like a no go. Anyone have a pug for sale for $700 or less?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

You can get a Bike's Direct fatty cheap. A true fat bike....even a cheap one will be a lot more useful in snow than a half-fat.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

vikb said:


> You can get a Bike's Direct fatty cheap. A true fat bike....even a cheap one will be a lot more useful in snow than a half-fat.


We only get 1/2 snow here. Other 1/2 is ice. Thanks for the info


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Studded fat tires will handle both conditions.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

I've ridden my Krampus and Moonlander on packed snow hiking trails and the Krampus works pretty well. Only issue was the knards packing up, then there's no traction on climbs. Once I get some Chronicles I expect half fat will be good for most snow conditions here on the Front Range as the trails I ride are shared snow shoe, hiking and biking. If the trail isn't packed down then my Moonlander doesn't really have any advantage, it sinks into unpacked snow too.


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## dsjackson (Apr 5, 2014)

Anyone spray the knards with silicone to prevent tread snow balling?


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

vikb said:


> Studded fat tires will handle both conditions.


I dont think I can get another whole bike past my cfo (wife) after getting the krampus in January.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

pursuiter said:


> I've ridden my Krampus and Moonlander on packed snow hiking trails and the Krampus works pretty well. Only issue was the knards packing up, then there's no traction on climbs. Once I get some Chronicles I expect half fat will be good for most snow conditions here on the Front Range as the trails I ride are shared snow shoe, hiking and biking. If the trail isn't packed down then my Moonlander doesn't really have any advantage, it sinks into unpacked snow too.


Good point. I gues I need to pack the trails down by breaking out snow shoes.


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

Is there going to be a 2015 Krampus soon? 
Also, is the Krampus a good all-around bike, or would you recommend something like a Salsa Mukluk? I want a 29er with big tyres, but if the 26ers are really better in snow, then that might sway me to look for one or the other.


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

Anyone have a pic of their krampus running normal 29er tires? specifically looking for a rear shot, not side view, front view would be nice too.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

With rabbit hole or with 'normal' rims?


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

preferably normal but either will do


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

Thought I had some on hand, but couldn't find any from when I had ice spikers on (relatively normal sized tires) that weren't from the side.


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

mrsa101-
Not exactly straight on, but best I had on hand. Stan's Flow rims with 29x2.35 Nobby Nics. Been riding these wheels on the Krampus most of the summer, but switching back to Knards and putting these wheels on another build soon.
What are trying to see exactly? Maybe I can help.


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

kdb71 said:


> View attachment 922424
> 
> 
> mrsa101-
> ...


Thanks thats pretty good for the front, do you have one from the rear? 
I'm trying to see what the chain/seat stay clearance is like with a normal 29er tire (alot obviously) but im looking at some 29er frames or going with a custom frame, would like the ability to run 29+ as well and just want to see how much extra clearance im going to need and if it'll look goofy in normal 29 mode


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

I'll try to remember to snap some pics of the rear tonight.
I guess goofy is a matter of personal preferfence, but looks OK to me. Of course these are 2.35 tires so skinnier ones may look goofier.
Of more concern to me is the geometry and intended usage. I have ridden the heck out the Krampus with these wheels on all different trails and while it is amazing how versatile this bike can be it really does best with the wide rims / tires as intended and never really can compete on tight singletrack with a frame with shorter wheebase / chainstays / etc... My $0.02 anyway.


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

I'm aiming for a sub 17in chainstay, around 16.5 if possible, but still a longish wheelbase. If I go with a custom builder the plan would be to allow enough room for a 29+ to just fit in there without a ton of room to spare, just enough that if I do decide I like it I can actually ride it in 29+ mode a lot without running into constant clearance issues. I plan on running bigger tires in 29er mode anyway. I've seen pics of people stuffing Knards into frames that look a lot less suitable than the bike I'm aiming for, though I wouldn't necessarily be running the bike like that if I were in their shoes.


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## TBMD9er (May 22, 2009)

It sounds like your looking for something like this.
Waltworks Bicycles: Dave's 29+


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## dsjackson (Apr 5, 2014)

Would a Jones titanium Truss Fork work well with a Krampus? Thoughts?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

dsjackson said:


> Would a Jones titanium Truss Fork work well with a Krampus? Thoughts?





> Jones Titanium Truss Fork
> 
> 435mm axle to crown with 55mm rake/offset
> 
> ...


The ti fork he is selling right now is really short. Compared to the Krampus' 483mm stock fork.

The specs on the new 29+ fork are not out and so far there isn't one available for sale in steel or ti.










You'll have to guesstimate if these forks are close enough in length to work.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

a-c on current jones forks is 435mm....this is about as short as you can go with a 29+ tyre and the clamp under the crown race, perhaps at all. the fork int he pic looks a little longer but i doubt very much it will approach 480mm. i reckon 450mm.


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

I've never used a Jones truss fork but with the style of steerer tube/headset that it uses is it possible to run a spacer under the fork crown race to effectively lengthen the axle/crown? That might weaken the steerer tube by having the crown race farther from the clamps ... just a thought.


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

You could, but it would only help it fit a shorter heAdtube, not a larger diameter wheel.


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

Yes, the jones fork will fit a knard , but has a short a/c length.It also has more rake which doesn't work well with a steeper head angle such as would happen if you put it on a krampus. 435 vs 483 = 48 mm which would steepen the head angle about 2 degrees to 70.5. way to steep for that fork.


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

hi

do you think a PDW Dave's Mud Shovel Rear will fit on a Surly Krampus?
No too big? yes, but... no?
(it's for belgian mud...)


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## rlcanon (Apr 27, 2013)

I run them on my XL Krampus to good effect.


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

wow
nice!
and nice mud 

thx


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## Osiris sky (Apr 29, 2013)

jos_2001 said:


> hi
> 
> do you think a PDW Dave's Mud Shovel Rear will fit on a Surly Krampus?
> No too big? yes, but... no?
> (it's for belgian mud...)


I'm running one on mine with a thudbuster seat post. I love the coverage. The SKS M.O.M. Is another option.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Osiris sky (Apr 29, 2013)

The family


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

Osiris sky said:


> I'm running one on mine with a thudbuster seat post. I love the coverage. The SKS M.O.M. Is another option.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


thank you osiris, I've ordered a pair of Mud Shovels


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## dsjackson (Apr 5, 2014)

Howdy Friends,

Its time for a fork for this beast of mine...what's the best suspension fork out there for the Krampus?


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

I just went through the same process...settled on Fox 34. I bought a 140 with the plan of lowering it to 120, but 140 is fuuunnn....so I am going to leave it there for the time being. I am running Knards on rabbit holes - clearance isn't great, but unless it's a muddy time things should be fine. Highly recommend front squish!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

dsjackson said:


> Howdy Friends,
> 
> Its time for a fork for this beast of mine...what's the best suspension fork out there for the Krampus?












Not saying this is the best setup, but Float 34s work and they can be had cheap on the used market.










Clearance is tight so you may want to hit it with a dremel tool in a few spots. There is lots of material to safely remove a bit.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Took my Krampus out on some milder Colorado Front Range trails and this bike does rock with a 140mm travel front suspension fork. I was thinking of selling it but I'm not ready to be without a hardtail.

If I was starting a build today I wouldn't get the Rabbit Hole rims and be stuck with a set of dedicated Krampus wheels. Instead I'd follow vikb's lead and buy some Velocity Blunt 35s or some 35-40mm carbon fiber rims so I could use the wheels on my 29er too.


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

Completely agree. Rabbit holes are decent rims, but they're heavy and not the best tubeless set up (mostly because of added weight of ghetto tubeless). I'm taking mine apart and relacing them to some Derby rims, and still run a 3 inch tire most of the time. That with a 140 fork will make a great set up, I think.



pursuiter said:


> Took my Krampus out on some milder Colorado Front Range trails and this bike does rock with a 140mm travel front suspension fork. I was thinking of selling it but I'm not ready to be without a hardtail.
> 
> If I was starting a build today I wouldn't get the Rabbit Hole rims and be stuck with a set of dedicated Krampus wheels. Instead I'd follow vikb's lead and buy some Velocity Blunt 35s or some 35-40mm carbon fiber rims so I could use the wheels on my 29er too.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

I have a 120mm Fox 32 on mine, and it's pretty great. I worried about it being too tall, but when I was a bit down on air (oops) and the HA was lower, it actually rode worse than when sag was set properly. I still don't know if I'd add 20mm of travel AND the 10mm taller A2C that the 34 has, but it's definitely a stiffer fork and would be my first choice over the 32 as it's a bit flexy. I'd just drop it to 110 or 120mm of travel. The 32 did fit fine with no dremeling (duallies and 120tpi knards).

The pretty-fat tires do an amazing job of absorbing trail noise, it feels like I'm riding on a 2 or 3" travel bike in the rear...there's no replacement for the joy of a suspension fork though.


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## BigFitz (May 14, 2014)

I just bought a krampus to replace my 14 spesh craphopper comp. I can't believe the difference. Love this bike. 
I just wanted to thank all you Krampus guys for this thread. Reading all the positive posts about how much fun and how tough the bike is really sold me. Now I have to ride. 









History is written by those who have hanged heroes.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Anyone interested in a Large Krampus rolling chassis- check out my paid ad- Large Surly Krampus with DT Swiss/Schlick Northpaw/Knards Wheelset - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories

Love the bike, but need to make a change to protect my bad shoulder.


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## aCab (Jul 22, 2014)

Got a raceface 30t chainring on the way to replace the 34t that came with it. Hopefully my legs will thank me. Also, finally put a qr skewer up front...huge improvement when using a fork mounted roof rack lol.


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## aCab (Jul 22, 2014)




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## dsjackson (Apr 5, 2014)

Hey Vikb,

What size chainring do you run and what size cog do you run on your rohloff krampus?


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Here's mine. First ride yesterday was really fun. I have the rear wheel slammed all the way forward in the drops. I have been thinking about trying out 29+ for a while now. I think the catalyst for me to finally jump in was the fear of the original green disappearing and being replaced by the longer chainstay ops version.

I'm using Derby rims with Knards. Setting up tubeless was dead simple (Derby rims are awesome).

Passing the afternoon today doing some fork mods so that I can try out front suspension next time. More on that later...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

dsjackson said:


> Hey Vikb,
> 
> What size chainring do you run and what size cog do you run on your rohloff krampus?


34 x 16T


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

After only one ride I am already on Krampus 2.0...

Spent the afternoon modifying my Pike for Krampus fun. Despite some pics showing tight / no clearance with a Pike, I actually had quite a bit. I am guessing that this can be chalked up to using the 35mm Derby rims vs. 50mm Rabbit Holes.

Pike is at 140mm for now just because that it what I had it at already. I suspect that I will eventually drop the travel to 120mm. Hoping to get a ride in soon (ran out of daylight today) to try this setup out.









Edit -- added some details of the mods I made to the Pike in the Krampus with Front Suspension thread:
Krampus with Front Suspension! - Page 11- Mtbr.com


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## Bullit_cn (Feb 24, 2004)

What stem length you guys are mostly using on your Krampus? I normally rides a medium Surly with 80mm on wider bars. If I get a small my stem would be 90 and if I get a medium, I would fall into 50mm or 60mm stem...which size would be best for me then? 
Need your best sugestions😃


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

go big or go home!


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

still looking for a good pic of a krampus running normal 29er tires, looking straight on from the back of the bike, so you can clearly see the seat/chainstay clearance. If anybody runs 29er tires and could grab a pic that would be awesome.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

mrsa101 said:


> still looking for a good pic of a krampus running normal 29er tires, looking straight on from the back of the bike, so you can clearly see the seat/chainstay clearance. If anybody runs 29er tires and could grab a pic that would be awesome.


Here ya go! The power of gooooooooogle....

Surly Krampus: the anti-Santa 29er | While Out Riding


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

MTB Pilot said:


> Here ya go! The power of gooooooooogle....
> 
> Surly Krampus: the anti-Santa 29er | While Out Riding


Decent pics but im more looking for a pic from directly behind the bike looking at the rear triangle.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

mrsa101 said:


> still looking for a good pic of a krampus running normal 29er tires, looking straight on from the back of the bike, so you can clearly see the seat/chainstay clearance.


Since the Krampus runs 700c x 3.0in tyres as standard, why would clearance with normal 700c mtb tyres be of even a slight concern? It will have masses of clearance.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

mrsa101 said:


> Decent pics but im more looking for a pic from directly behind the bike looking at the rear triangle.


nevermind...


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

I love surly...


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

Fix the Spade said:


> Since the Krampus runs 700c x 3.0in tyres as standard, why would clearance with normal 700c mtb tyres be of even a slight concern? It will have masses of clearance.


Its more to see how much excess clearance it has with 29er tires. Trying to see how much wider the seat/chainstays are vs. a normal 29er frame. its for a custom frame, hard to explain why its important, but it is, it would be a big help.


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

mrsa101 said:


> Its more to see how much excess clearance it has with 29er tires. Trying to see how much wider the seat/chainstays are vs. a normal 29er frame. its for a custom frame, hard to explain why its important, but it is, it would be a big help.


If you are going to build up a 29er, then use a 29er frame. If you are building up a 29+, use a 29+ frame. It isn't rocket science.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

CannondaleF9 said:


> If you are going to build up a 29er, then use a 29er frame. If you are building up a 29+, use a 29+ frame. It isn't rocket science.


You're not very familiar with Surly, are you? Many of Surly's framesets and bikes accommodate multiple wheel sizes, and they do that for a reason.


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> You're not very familiar with Surly, are you? Many of Surly's framesets and bikes accommodate multiple wheel sizes, and they do that for a reason.


I know you can build a 29er on a 29+ frame. However, why should you ask if a normal 29" wheel is going to fit in a quite larger frame?


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

CannondaleF9 said:


> I know you can build a 29er on a 29+ frame. However, why should you ask if a normal 29" wheel is going to fit in a quite larger frame?


Thats not what i need to know, obviously a 29er tire will fit a krampus. I'm trying to see how much wider a krampus chain/seat stay is compared to a normal 29er, just want a good visual from the rear. we're trying to keep the rear triangle pretty tight, I dont want overly wide stays since this will primarily be running 29er tires. just want to have the ability to "barely" fit 29+ for the hell of it. 29er first and foremost 29+ as an after thought. basically.


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

CannondaleF9 said:


> If you are going to build up a 29er, then use a 29er frame. If you are building up a 29+, use a 29+ frame. It isn't rocket science.


there are a few normal 29er frames that fit a knard, so if i can just get a smidge more clearance than those bikes, why not have a bike that can run both sizes?


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

mrsa101 said:


> there are a few normal 29er frames that fit a knard, so if i can just get a smidge more clearance than those bikes, why not have a bike that can run both sizes?


You should then just look at a normal Krampus rear triangle with the 3.0" wide tire and see how much you can cut down on the width before you run out of space.


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

Just freshened up the paint on my SS krampus.

photo 2 by tim_w_sage, on Flickr


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## Slash5 (Nov 27, 2011)

*29 tires on a Krampus*

I rode my Krampus around my usual route, then changed over to my tubeless 2.2 Ardent's.
Took a bit to get used to the different lean angles. Felt like I was running solid rubber tires - no give at all. For just a moment, it felt lighter and faster - but the feeling disappeared almost immediately.
The smaller tires don't look out of place to me - odd cause you are used to the bigger tire but not really unusual.
Biggest problem with trying to build a bike to use both would be the bottom bracket height - I measured 13" with the Knards, 12 3/8, maybe 12.5 with the Ardents.
I had pedal strikes coming out of berms, roots.


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

Slash5 said:


> I rode my Krampus around my usual route, then changed over to my tubeless 2.2 Ardent's.
> Took a bit to get used to the different lean angles. Felt like I was running solid rubber tires - no give at all. For just a moment, it felt lighter and faster - but the feeling disappeared almost immediately.
> The smaller tires don't look out of place to me - odd cause you are used to the bigger tire but not really unusual.
> Biggest problem with trying to build a bike to use both would be the bottom bracket height - I measured 13" with the Knards, 12 3/8, maybe 12.5 with the Ardents.
> ...


Those photos are just what i was looking for, thanks!

BB height could be a bit of a problem, but I think I'd design the BB height in 29er mode, and live with whatever that gives me in 29+ mode, the increased BB height might be fine considering the extra squish from the tires and considering that i'll probably be riding terrain that suits a high BB


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## fatlip11 (Aug 24, 2011)

God! Those tires look tiny compared to the knards. What a difference!


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

New bike day. Test ride before we pulled the pie plate and the reflectors. Will move my Jones Loops from my Fargo (that bike will be up for sale), and move the dyno hub over to the RHs. The frame bag from my Fargo fits nicely in the medium (same bag fits my Indy Fab rando bike, my Fargo, and my Pugsley... so score!).

Will need some lower gearing for bikepacking. Will pick up a narrow wide in the spring, and probably go to a 42t cog setup.

Surly Krampus. New MTB Bikepacking rig. My fargo will be up for sale. by mbeganyi, on Flickr


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Love it tim_w_ . That should've been the standard color.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Session in the woods.


Krampus session in the local woods by mbeganyi, on Flickr


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bmike said:


> Session in the woods.
> 
> 
> Krampus session in the local woods by mbeganyi, on Flickr


Nice to see you on a Green Machine Mike. :thumbsup:


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

vikb said:


> Nice to see you on a Green Machine Mike. :thumbsup:


Your blog didn't help!


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Test fit Syncros carbon form.


Test fit Surly Knard on Rabbit Hole in a Syncros Carbon Fork. This might go on extended testing from Wil Blanchard by mbeganyi, on Flickr


Test fit Surly Knard on Rabbit Hole in a Syncros Carbon Fork. This might go on extended testing from Wil Blanchard by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Might give it a go. 1/4" each side by eye. Some helicopter tape over the carbon and I'll give it a go.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Test fit all my bags... the Salsa Fargo frame bag fits, but I have a Krampus specific one on the way (sold the bag with the bike...)

Krampus shakedown by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Krampus shakedown by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Krampus shakedown by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Absolutely loving this bike. Rainy, wet today. Stayed off the techy rock / roots in the pitch dark - but felt good on the Knards. Very curious to try out some grippier tires when they become available.

G0014734 by mbeganyi, on Flickr


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

CannondaleF9 said:


> You should then just look at a normal Krampus rear triangle with the 3.0" wide tire and see how much you can cut down on the width before you run out of space.


The Knard just barely fits in a Krampus. There isn't a heck of a lot of clearance on either side of the tire [I measure 8mm] and that's without any serious side knobs that we'll hopefully see on new 29+ tires.

So I don't see a way to make the chainstays any narrower and still fit 29+ rubber.










If you are considering a custom 29+ bike I'd stay away from any designs that want to use flat metal stock on one of both sides of the tire in the BB area to create clearance. They are narrow, but they won't resist bending well and lead to a flexy rear triangle.










Surly went to a lot of trouble and expense designing and fabricating a custom yoke to get clearance and stiffness while keeping the chainstays narrow enough for a standard BB.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bmike said:


> Very curious to try out some grippier tires when they become available.


+1 - I'm going to order some Maxxis Chronicles as soon as they are available.

The Knards have worked pretty well for me and as long as I can run them tubeless [few flats] I'll keep my worn set for paved/FSR touring where low rolling resistance is more important than traction. Eventually I'll have some nice 29+ slicks.


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

vikb said:


> +1 - I'm going to order some Maxxis Chronicles as soon as they are available.
> 
> The Knards have worked pretty well for me and as long as I can run them tubeless [few flats] I'll keep my worn set for paved/FSR touring where low rolling resistance is more important than traction. Eventually I'll have some nice 29+ slicks.


See if you can get an LBS to let you test fit some Big Apple 2.35 on your bike. It's pretty damn sexy.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

vikb said:


> +1 - I'm going to order some Maxxis Chronicles as soon as they are available.
> 
> The Knards have worked pretty well for me and as long as I can run them tubeless [few flats] I'll keep my worn set for paved/FSR touring where low rolling resistance is more important than traction. Eventually I'll have some nice 29+ slicks.


Now that my dyno wheel is laced up I'm going to go split tube. Hopefully this week.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Coffeeneurring #4 Widows Clearing trail in GMNF. Rain and sleet as I got higher. Just as I poured coffee it came down in buckets. by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Wished for some more traction today. But it's tough riding on layers of leaves over wet rocks and roots.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

NickandBruce said:


> See if you can get an LBS to let you test fit some Big Apple 2.35 on your bike. It's pretty damn sexy.


I've got some well worn Knards. Makes more sense to just keep wearing them out until I have some 3" slicks.


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## dsjackson (Apr 5, 2014)

Has anyone considered using the Krampus as their one bike? Two wheel sets: one for smaller slicks and another for fatty grips. The former for the commute the latter for ripping. I'm considering ditching the steaggler commuter and putting them together.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

dsjackson said:


> Has anyone considered using the Krampus as their one bike? Two wheel sets: one for smaller slicks and another for fatty grips. The former for the commute the latter for ripping. I'm considering ditching the steaggler commuter and putting them together.


It is my one and only. I have a pair of knards on my only wheelset (rabbit holes). When I am going to go for a smoother ride where less rolling resistance is key, I have some geax tattoo lite tires I throw on (amazon, kinda challenging to get off). Love those tires for mixed use, but I am not very confident in loose stuff or muddy conditions.

I am saving for a nice lightweight wheelset.


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## dsjackson (Apr 5, 2014)

Anybody know if a tubus disco would fit on a Krampus with a salsa seat post rack mount?


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

dsjackson said:


> Anybody know if a tubus disco would fit on a Krampus with a salsa seat post rack mount?


If you only lived closer... I'd sell you the one I've had for years, unused. Just a word of forewarning; I tried a Tubus Disco on my wifes Singular a few years ago using the advice of Tubus saying that it should fit and to use their mounting kit. Well, it didn't fit and they wouldn't let me return it. Given that I was attempting to mount it on a bike with 38mm tires and you're going for 3", I'd make very sure it'll work before you spend the money. That or use bikepacking bags.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

I spent a long time trying to find a rear rack that would work on my Krampus. None of the Tubus racks I looked into would fit with the Knards on the Rabbit Holes.

A Nitto R10 will work for a seat bag support. A custom Old Man Mountain Rack will work. I think a Surly Nice Rack might work-- I don't remember about that. Those were the only racks I found that I thought would work.

Before recommending bikepacking bags for Krampus riders, remember that riders shorter than about 5'10" or thereabouts (depending on leg length) will not be able to use bikepacking bags.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

the other Anne said:


> Before recommending bikepacking bags for Krampus riders, remember that riders shorter than about 5'10" or thereabouts (depending on leg length) will not be able to use bikepacking bags.


That's a bit of a generalization, it depends entirely on the dimensions of the bag so a 'generic' one would definitely have that issue..


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

the other Anne said:


> Before recommending bikepacking bags for Krampus riders, remember that riders shorter than about 5'10" or thereabouts (depending on leg length) will not be able to use bikepacking bags.


I'm 5'8" on a medium krampus... my revelate kit fits fine... but really depends on seat height / leg length more than anything.

Krampus shakedown by mbeganyi, on Flickr


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

bmike- You're all leg! Lucky long-legged people like you aren't going to have any trouble. As you say, it depends on leg length.

I'm 5'8" too. I have a long torso, which was beneficial when I used to be a swimmer, but is less good for a cyclist. Even a little seat bag like the Pika doesn't fit on my bike.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

the other Anne said:


> bmike- You're all leg! Lucky long-legged people like you aren't going to have any trouble. As you say, it depends on leg length.
> 
> I'm 5'8" too. I have a long torso, which was beneficial when I used to be a swimmer, but is less good for a cyclist. Even a little seat bag like the Pika doesn't fit on my bike.


yeah, i sold my medium fargo to a friend of mine... he's 6'2, and he lowered my saddle - he's all torso too! had to put a riser stem on it to make it work!

fwiw my center of crank to top of saddle in 'touring' mode is 73.9cm assuming a 125 crank. up or down a bit depending on what shoes i wear. i can drop saddle for techy stuff and don't worry about my bag too much...


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## Bullit_cn (Feb 24, 2004)

@Bmike, what is your saddle height from BB center? I am 5'8" with 32" inseam. My saddle height is 73 from BB center. Just trying to compare with your current setup.
Another question for is your stem length? You know a medium is a bit long,
Thanks


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## Bullit_cn (Feb 24, 2004)

You answered my first questions already. So if you're 73.9, I would assume there would still have some clearance on a 73cm height


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Bullit_cn said:


> You answered my first questions already. So if you're 73.9, I would assume there would still have some clearance on a 73cm height


Jones Loop with the stock stem... 70mm?
Fits great.
When I walked in to test ride I kind of freaked out as the bike is just so big, but for me, 5'8" +/- the medium fits great. I'm on a medium Pug with 100 stem, my Fargo was a medium - 90stem with little rise for the woodchippers in a 'cross like' position. 110 or 100 stem with the jones loops.

.9cm won't make much difference in the bag placement.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

mrsa101 said:


> BB height could be a bit of a problem, but I think I'd design the BB height in 29er mode, and live with whatever that gives me in 29+ mode, the increased BB height might be fine considering the extra squish from the tires and considering that i'll probably be riding terrain that suits a high BB


This is kinda what I want. I would primarily use Big Apples/SB8 or similar 29" commuter tire with a rigid fork. Occasionally I might put on some 2.4 race rubber and a suspension fork, and rarely I might slap on some Knards and ride off into the sunset with a few bags attached.

It would basically be a bike with Krampus tire clearances, but with BB, chainstay, and rigid fork A2C of a 29x2.4 bike.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

PHeller said:


> This is kinda what I want. I would primarily use Big Apples/SB8 or similar 29" commuter tire with a rigid fork. Occasionally I might put on some 2.4 race rubber and a suspension fork, and rarely I might slap on some Knards and ride off into the sunset with a few bags attached.
> 
> It would basically be a bike with Krampus tire clearances, but with BB, chainstay, and rigid fork A2C of a 29x2.4 bike.


thats sort of a ECR, no? although I've heard the BB is really low with 29 wheels and tires.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

bmike said:


> thats sort of a ECR, no? although I've heard the BB is really low with 29 wheels and tires.


Yep, spot on. The ECR has got a pretty low BB with 29+ (enough that some folks prefer the Krampus for actual MTB) and of course the ECR is a tank, weighing over 33lbs even in its most stripped down format.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

the other Anne said:


> Before recommending bikepacking bags for Krampus riders, remember that riders shorter than about 5'10" or thereabouts (depending on leg length) will not be able to use bikepacking bags.


I'm not trying to be a troll but there are other options out there for bikepacking bags other than the 'big R'. Most of us can customize bags to fit almost any rider. I'm somewhere in between 5'10" and 6'0" (I seem to be shrinking already) and on my 29+ (Edelbikes) I have no issues with my bags rubbing, even with a Ti seatpost. Now, if you get into dropper seatpost territory, you're definitely going to interference issues.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

For sure, there are other bags. But at some point, as a rider gets shorter, the seat bag that fits is going to be so small that it's just not going to hold much. And the space for a frame bag on a small Krampus is tiny. I'm going with a rack and a transverse saddlebag on my touring rig because I don't see how a tiny saddlebag (if I could find one that fits) and a tiny frame bag have enough capacity for my needs. YMMV.


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

> A photo posted by Gabriel Amadeus Tiller (@gabrielamadeus) on Oct 10, 2014 at 10:07am PDT


Here's one way to do a dropper I found on instagram. Could probably adapt this idea for small riders too.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Split tube toooooobless. Surly Rabbit Hole and Knard +24" split tube. by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Split tube toooooobless. Surly Rabbit Hole and Knard +24" split tube. by mbeganyi, on Flickr

so far so good split tubeless on the krampus.
rabbit hole with stock rim strip, 24" tube, 2 scoops of stans.
these are the stock 27tpi tires.


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## dsjackson (Apr 5, 2014)

vikb said:


> 34 x 16T


hey vikb!

what spindle length is your bb? I'm thinking of putting a 120mm length Phil BB on my krampus for setting up a paul mtn crank with a rohloff...

Paul thinks it will work.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

dsjackson said:


> hey vikb!
> 
> what spindle length is your bb? I'm thinking of putting a 120mm length Phil BB on my krampus for setting up a paul mtn crank with a rohloff...
> 
> Paul thinks it will work.


It's a standard Shimano Deore triple crank. Not sure what the spindle length is.


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## ianick (Jul 10, 2006)

PHeller said:


> This is kinda what I want. I would primarily use Big Apples/SB8 or similar 29" commuter tire with a rigid fork. Occasionally I might put on some 2.4 race rubber and a suspension fork, and rarely I might slap on some Knards and ride off into the sunset with a few bags attached.
> 
> It would basically be a bike with Krampus tire clearances, but with BB, chainstay, and rigid fork A2C of a 29x2.4 bike.


If you could deal with a 29x2.5 in the rear, an Ogre might fit the bill for you. There is plenty of room to run Rabbit Holes. But you are limited to a 2.5 rear tire. Which for me, turned out not to be a big deal. (I would say the Ardent 2.4 on a Rabbit Hole has better traction than a 3.0 Knard, though with less volume)


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

NickandBruce said:


> > A photo posted by Gabriel Amadeus Tiller (@gabrielamadeus)*on Oct 10, 2014 at 10:07am PDT
> 
> 
> Here's one way to do a dropper I found on instagram. Could probably adapt this idea for small riders too.


By the time you go to all that complexity I'd just add a lightweight rear rack and strap a dry bag to the top.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

ianick said:


> If you could deal with a 29x2.5 in the rear, an Ogre might fit the bill for you. There is plenty of room to run Rabbit Holes. But you are limited to a 2.5 rear tire. Which for me, turned out not to be a big deal. (I would say the Ardent 2.4 on a Rabbit Hole has better traction than a 3.0 Knard, though with less volume)


Once I get into normal bike territory the flood gates open up and many options become viable. The Ogre becomes one of the heavier choices.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

PHeller said:


> Once I get into normal bike territory the flood gates open up and many options become viable. The Ogre becomes one of the heavier choices.





PHeller said:


> This is kinda what I want. I would primarily use Big Apples/SB8 or similar 29" commuter tire with a rigid fork. Occasionally I might put on some 2.4 race rubber and a suspension fork, and *rarely I might slap on some Knards and ride off into the sunset with a few bags attached*.


Just a comment based on how often you'll use 3" tires. Having toured on a 2.4" 29er and a 29+ bike there is not one place I've gone with the 29+ that I couldn't go with the 2.4" 29er tire. So if your 29+ use is very occasional it doesn't make sense to expend the $$ and deal with the design compromises to fit that 3" tire.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Vik,

I'm not necessarily in the market for this bike yet, just hoping it will come. I will likely go B+ before I go 29+, mostly because of the design limitations of 29+.

EDIT: I more or less want G-Reg's Knargo


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

I swapped out the stock ring on the Zee crank for a Wolftooth 30 drop stop. In doing so it seems I shredded 3 out of 4 little washers that were stock between the crank bolt and crank arm. Never seen these before... They are little thin pieces.

Wondering if I should replace them or just bolt it on and ride.

Untitled by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Untitled by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Untitled by mbeganyi, on Flickr

The holes seem larger than the bolt, worried about damaging the arm... but the thinness of the washer clearly did't do much, as they crumbled when I tightened things down. Looks like they warped into the hole and then cracked.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

******************KRAMPUS FRAME AVAILABLE FOR TRADE********************

I have a 2013 Krampus frame in a size small that I would like to trade for a medium. I know it seems crazy, and the reason is a very long story, but I just thought I would throw it out there.


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

I just got my small stock krampus and I absolutely love this thing! Really really fun bike for single track. I have read through this thread and have seen all sorts of different ideas for upgrading the bike. I don't have any real experience building up bikes but am curious as to what the most common upgrades might be? The bb7 brakes seem a bit underwhelming compared to my buddy's slx shimano hydro brake. Dropping rotational weight seems common. Some have even just used different tubes to drop nearly a pound out of the wheels. 

Any ideas are appreciated.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

IMG_3809 by mbeganyi, on Flickr

first bikepacking trip... love it...!

IMG_3879 by mbeganyi, on Flickr

IMG_3811 by mbeganyi, on Flickr


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## dsjackson (Apr 5, 2014)

Anyone running a fat front on the Krampus? Is it worthwhile? I'm thinking about:

Rolling Darryl
Bud tire
Enabler Fork


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

dsjackson said:


> Anyone running a fat front on the Krampus? Is it worthwhile? I'm thinking about:
> 
> Rolling Darryl
> Bud tire
> Enabler Fork


Word from treefort and surly is that the drop in the front end from the krampus fork/rh / knard to that combo will make hta to steep and wreck the handling characteristics. Instagram user Karatelander has a picture of this set up.


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## Hootbmx (Feb 20, 2012)

I have a 2013 medium I might be interested in trading. Where are you located?


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## Hootbmx (Feb 20, 2012)

ale50ale said:


> ******************KRAMPUS FRAME AVAILABLE FOR TRADE********************
> 
> I have a 2013 Krampus frame in a size small that I would like to trade for a medium. I know it seems crazy, and the reason is a very long story, but I just thought I would throw it out there.


I have a 2013 medium I might be interested in trading. Where are you located?


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

dsjackson said:


> Anyone running a fat front on the Krampus? Is it worthwhile? I'm thinking about:
> 
> Rolling Darryl
> Bud tire
> Enabler Fork


Here is another shot


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

Really curious on handling. I also wonder what this adjustment might do to a standard 29er.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

boogar73 said:


> Word from treefort and surly is that the drop in the front end from the krampus fork/rh / knard to that combo will make hta to steep and wreck the handling characteristics.


The difference in front end height with that fat front setup is ~1". On a bike with a 69.5 HTA that's not going to wreck it, but it will change it.

I'm not a fan of a fat front or a steeper HTA so I wouldn't go there personally.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

x3speed said:


> Really curious on handling. I also wonder what this adjustment might do to a standard 29er.


I probably am not going to do it to my krampus. A friend of mine has a karate monkey with a fat front end. It handles well, did not appreciably change the hta. I might try to talk him into swapping frint ends with me for a while just to check it before dropping a lot of money on something I end up not liking.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

boogar73 said:


> ...check it before dropping a lot of money on something I end up not liking.


I'd ride a suspension fork'ed Krampus before I dropped any cash on making a fat-front Krampus.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

I'd think that a fat-front Krampus and a suspension Krampus have different purposes. A fat-front Krampus could go in snow and sand. A suspension Krampus would be faster on downhills on difficult terrain, and would probably be better on difficult rooty uphills as well-- it would handle bigger bumps and edges than the Knards, because that's what a suspension does.


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## Vincentg (Sep 24, 2008)

Krampus inspired, check it out:

Custom Carver, my Multitool- Mtbr.com


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

the other Anne said:


> I'd think that a fat-front Krampus and a suspension Krampus have different purposes. A fat-front Krampus could go in snow and sand. A suspension Krampus would be faster on downhills on difficult terrain, and would probably be better on difficult rooty uphills as well-- it would handle bigger bumps and edges than the Knards, because that's what a suspension does.


I don't understand fat front in snow or sand. I've ridden my Krampus in the snow on snow-shoe packed trails with another rider on my Moonlander. The Krampus did ok on float, but when it punched through it was the rear wheel, not the front. I assumed the only advantage of a FF Krampus was quasi-suspension, I can't imagine it has any advantage in snow or sand.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

OK, so then I'm wrong about fat-front for snow/sand.


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## Flash (Jan 30, 2004)

I'm late to the party but need some quick ideas. Might buy a Krampus real soon but wondering about how it will handle Michigan winters. I like the idea that it can be ridden in the summer at a decent pace yet also do some snow riding. Looking for some thoughts from some Krampus riders.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

pursuiter said:


> I'd ride a suspension fork'ed Krampus before I dropped any cash on making a fat-front Krampus.


Agree. Just nervous about modding one in my budget. Plus I am a badass on a rigid, lol. 


the other Anne said:


> I'd think that a fat-front Krampus and a suspension Krampus have different purposes. A fat-front Krampus could go in snow and sand. A suspension Krampus would be faster on downhills on difficult terrain, and would probably be better on difficult rooty uphills as well-- it would handle bigger bumps and edges than the Knards, because that's what a suspension does.


Fat front does make it easier going in snow /sand, imho. Handling gets a lot easier and you float over more. Like pursuiter states, you can an will punch thru with the back tire. Still not a full-fatty.


pursuiter said:


> I don't understand fat front in snow or sand. I've ridden my Krampus in the snow on snow-shoe packed trails with another rider on my Moonlander. The Krampus did ok on float, but when it punched through it was the rear wheel, not the front. I assumed the only advantage of a FF Krampus was quasi-suspension, I can't imagine it has any advantage in snow or sand.


I think you and I agree mostly, but a 4" inch tire will float over something better than a 3" tire. I cant justify the gains versus the cost. That setup is 1/2 the cost of a new low-end fatbike or a used bike which I would probably have more fun on. 
I


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

I set up my krampus for awhile with a surly bud and salsa enabler on a surly daryl rim. The steering might have been a bit snappier, but it was subtle. It definitely made for some extra squish. I'll part with my setup for 250 + shipping, pm me if interested. The tires are in great shape and the rim has a minor ding in it. Hmmm, i'm tempted to put the fat front back on again now that I'm thinking about it.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Coleman22 said:


> The bb7 brakes seem a bit underwhelming compared to my buddy's slx shimano hydro brake.
> 
> Any ideas are appreciated.


better housing will help a lot. the reinforced derailleur style, non-compressable housing will make your brakes much more powerful. regular brake housing flexes a lot when you really start squeezing.

That being said, I just got back from 4 days of racing in the mountains, on a 5 mile run with 3000 feet of gross elevation drop, my avid juicy ultimates were not confidence inspiring despite new fluid and new pads. I've never felt like my rigid krampus held me back riding in hilly regions, but in mountainous regions, I lost a good bit of time to arm exhaustion on the downhills.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

PretendGentleman said:


> better housing will help a lot. the reinforced derailleur style, non-compressable housing will make your brakes much more powerful.


Sheldon Brown quote "Warning: Since compressionless housing relies on plastic to hold it together, it is not as strong as conventional spiral housing, and should never be used for brakes! The loads applied to brake cables can easily cause compressionless housing to rupture and burst, causing a complete and sudden loss of brake function."

I have seen this occur and also the strands coming out through the cable housing end caps which degrades performance.

Nokon bead type housing is probably a better bet. And in general the less housing the better.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Bigwheel said:


> Sheldon Brown quote "Warning: Since compressionless housing relies on plastic to hold it together, it is not as strong as conventional spiral housing, and should never be used for brakes! The loads applied to brake cables can easily cause compressionless housing to rupture and burst, causing a complete and sudden loss of brake function."
> 
> I have seen this occur and also the strands coming out through the cable housing end caps which degrades performance.
> 
> Nokon bead type housing is probably a better bet. And in general the less housing the better.


The bmx company, odyssey, started making *reinforced* non-compressible housing in the early 2000's. since then many other companies have stared offering the stuff. It's very popular on tri/tt bikes and shimano's fancy spinoff company (don't recall the name) sells the stuff too. Sheldon Brown's successor isn't worth two sh1ts as far as I can tell, as he's unwilling to update the site as times change.

And I'd never recommend nokon housing to anybody. have you seen what happens if you break a cable while riding/crashing?!!! expensive beads everywhere.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

pursuiter said:


> I'd ride a suspension fork'ed Krampus before I dropped any cash on making a fat-front Krampus.


Does anybody have solid info on fork compatibility? I've seen a lot of contradictory info and I'm not going to file down the arch.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

PretendGentleman said:


> The bmx company, odyssey, started making *reinforced* non-compressible housing in the early 2000's. since then many other companies have stared offering the stuff. It's very popular on tri/tt bikes and shimano's fancy spinoff company (don't recall the name) sells the stuff too. Sheldon Brown's successor isn't worth two sh1ts as far as I can tell, as he's unwilling to update the site as times change.
> 
> And I'd never recommend nokon housing to anybody. have you seen what happens if you break a cable while riding/crashing?!!! expensive beads everywhere.


first thing i did when i got my krampus home was to re-do the brakes with the jagwire stuff.

Mountain Pro Brake | Jagwire

vastly improves the BB7s. had it on my Fargo for brake / shift, really like it.


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## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

As far as I know, there are only 3 forks that are explicitly ok for use with 29+, the RS Bluto, the MRP Stage 29+, and the fork of many names (Trans-Fat Fork - Carver Bikes). I have seen the RS RS-1 with a knard in it, but I don't think that is kosher as far as RS is concerned. As far as I can tell, no major manufacturer offers a 29+ with a suspension fork as stock...I know carver does offer it with the Gnarvester, but I don't think people are super impressed with the ride of that fork. RSD supposedly sells a 29+ fork too (Forks | RSD Bikes) but I have not read anything about it.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Coloradoxj13 said:


> the MRP Stage 29+,


Wait did I miss something? MRP makes an official 29+ version of their fork now ?


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## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/brand-new-mrp-stage-fork-clearance-29x3-tires-915196.html


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

So a MRP dealer (?) says he can fit a 29x3" tire into a Stage? And doesn't even post any clearance pics?

I'm not sure that qualifies as explicitly OK to use with 29+ or any sort of endorsement from MRP for 29+ use. 

Would love to be proven wrong, though.


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## Flash (Jan 30, 2004)

I thought the Fox fork had enough clearance for the 29+ X 3


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## Coloradoxj13 (Sep 9, 2009)

Fair, maybe not explicitly, I stand corrected, the URL in the post does have clearance pics though, not a whole lot of clearance.



__ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=715476955160968&id=304605066248161


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## curtisp (Aug 21, 2012)

bmike said:


> IMG_3809 by mbeganyi, on Flickr
> 
> first bikepacking trip... love it...!


AWESOME bike!!! :thumbsup: I want one!!!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Flash said:


> I thought the Fox fork had enough clearance for the 29+ X 3












My RH + Knard setup turned freely at MTBing pressures in a Fox Float 34, but there was one specific tight spot with considerably less clearance.










When I pumped up the front tire for a city ride I wasn't happy with the clearance so I hit it with a dremel tool. I didn't take off very much material. My aim was to even out the clearance around the brace.










These photos were taken with the tire at ~25 psi. There is lots more material to safely remove if even more clearance is desired.


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## dsjackson (Apr 5, 2014)

Anyone able to mount an anything cage to the bottom of the down tube on their Krampus?


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## rlcanon (Apr 27, 2013)

I use a Two Fish Growler Quick Cage to hold an insulated 64-Ounce growler on the down tube of both my Krampus and ECR, both size XL. I could have sworn I had a pic of it on Krampus but guess not. I guess I don't have a pic of the Two Fish so here's the ECR with the prior set-up to see how it fits. If it goes much lower on the down tube it gets into the chain ring. The Q on both bikes is enough that I never notice the double wall growler down there. Surprisingly good place to carry a load!


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

Looking to upgrade my stock seatpost and stem on my krampus. Raceface turbine vs thompson elite. Chainreaction has the raceface turbine seatpost for $53 vs 69 for the thomson. Is thomson worth the difference? Any others to consider in that range?

Xposted elsewhere. Sorry for noise....


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

boogar73 said:


> Looking to upgrade my stock seatpost and stem on my krampus. Raceface turbine vs thompson elite. Chainreaction has the raceface turbine seatpost for $53 vs 69 for the thomson. Is thomson worth the difference? Any others to consider in that range?
> 
> Xposted elsewhere. Sorry for noise....


If it were me, I'd go Salsa with the Ti post (yes, far more expensive but your butt will thank you... also what I have on 2 of my 3 mtbs) and Aluminum stem. However, if you're dead set on those two companies, I would go Thomson. Just my preference.


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

boogar73 said:


> Looking to upgrade my stock seatpost and stem on my krampus. Raceface turbine vs thompson elite. Chainreaction has the raceface turbine seatpost for $53 vs 69 for the thomson. Is thomson worth the difference? Any others to consider in that range?
> 
> Xposted elsewhere. Sorry for noise....


I've got both. Can't go wrong with Thomson, but I just put the Race Face on a new build and I really dig the the adjustment setup. Very simple design that allows all the adjustment of other posts, but without the goofy multi part rocking interface thingy that for some reason has long been a standard. Only have a couple hundred miles on it so far so can't really speak for durability (whereas thousands of miles on Thomson with no issues).


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Hootbmx said:


> I have a 2013 medium I might be interested in trading. Where are you located?


Hi, I sent you a private message.


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

Krampus ops, 28t direct mount and 11-42 modified xt cassette with a rad cage modified xt derailleur. NOW it shifts like it should.....


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## clayborne (Sep 18, 2013)

Split between and Krampus and Ogre (with 2.4s) for 80% commuting, 10% trail, 5%touring, and 5% backpacking. I know for my needs the Ogre is more practical (or ECR for that matter but is too limited in tire sizes due to bb height), but nonetheless the devil in me is leaning towards the Krampus for fun factor. All that said, I wanted to hear from you guys who have done any medium distance road riding and road touring on the 29x3 Knard. I've ridden an ECR for about 10 minutes but not enough to know if I'd be shooting myself in the foot day in day out. My commute is 10-15 daily. I'm in NYC and our roads rank among the worst along with our drivers and I thought the Kramp could put a little spring in my step. Thanks.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

i sometimes do a mixed commute with my krampus. it is about 6-7 miles of pavement, and at least that in singletrack. knards roll good, but seem like overkill for all pavement. i would go with the ogre. it still will fit a knard up front.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

clayborne said:


> Split between and Krampus and Ogre (with 2.4s) for 80% commuting, 10% trail, 5%touring, and 5% backpacking. I know for my needs the Ogre is more practical (or ECR for that matter but is too limited in tire sizes due to bb height), but nonetheless the devil in me is leaning towards the Krampus for fun factor. All that said, I wanted to hear from you guys who have done any medium distance road riding and road touring on the 29x3 Knard. I've ridden an ECR for about 10 minutes but not enough to know if I'd be shooting myself in the foot day in day out. My commute is 10-15 daily. I'm in NYC and our roads rank among the worst along with our drivers and I thought the Kramp could put a little spring in my step. Thanks.


Knards are expensive tires for asphalt riding. It doesn't sound like they'll do what you need. If you decide to go 29+, the krampus will give you a reasonable bb height if you use 2.4s, whereas the ECR will be quite low.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

clayborne said:


> Split between and Krampus and Ogre (with 2.4s) for 80% commuting, 10% trail, 5%touring, and 5% backpacking. I know for my needs the Ogre is more practical (or ECR for that matter but is too limited in tire sizes due to bb height), but nonetheless the devil in me is leaning towards the Krampus for fun factor. All that said, I wanted to hear from you guys who have done any medium distance road riding and road touring on the 29x3 Knard. I've ridden an ECR for about 10 minutes but not enough to know if I'd be shooting myself in the foot day in day out. My commute is 10-15 daily. I'm in NYC and our roads rank among the worst along with our drivers and I thought the Kramp could put a little spring in my step. Thanks.


I have krampus and switch out tires depending on what I will be riding. Kind of a PITA but 2.3 slicks are a lot of fun on the bike and 3" tires grip like a mutha. That said, the ogre is more flexible. I ride 80% dirt, 20% asphalt, commutes included


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

clayborne said:


> All that said, I wanted to hear from you guys who have done any medium distance road riding and road touring on the 29x3 Knard.


I did 100kms of paved road riding to close off a dirt bikepacking loop. The Knards rolled well. I didn't give it a second thought.

Wider low pressure tires wear slower than narrower higher pressure tires, but Knards are expensive so you'd have to figure out if that end of the equation works for you.

You could certainly keep older Knards and run them tubeless until the tread is gone and they are slicks. I plan to do this with my Knards. That way you get some "street" tires for free and tubeless you'll be able to keep them rolling a long time.

I'm going to get some Maxxis Chronicles for trail riding, but the worn Knards will get used for forest service roads and paved roads because they roll fast and there's no need for a more aggressive knobby in those situations.

That should keep the Chronicles in great shape for a long time.


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

Vik,

whats the word on when these new 29+ tires will be avail? the chronicles look great but then again so do the chupacabra's.....

right now i'm still running tubes. do you think split tube is currently the best option for tubeless? and do you expect that to change with some of the new tires coming out?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Coleman22 said:


> Vik,
> 
> whats the word on when these new 29+ tires will be avail? the chronicles look great but then again so do the chupacabra's.....


I'm only really paying attention to the Chronicles as I'm set on buying some and once I do I'll have 29+ tires for 2yrs so I'm out of the market again.

AFAIK they are available in Europe now and should be available in NA early in 2015.

Take this with a grain of salt as I am not watching their progress super closely. I've spent too much time waiting on 29+ tires to get excited until I see some for sale on a website I order from regularly.


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

vikb said:


> Take this with a grain of salt as I am not watching their progress super closely. I've spent too much time waiting on 29+ tires to get excited until I see some for sale on a website I order from regularly.


it must not be an easy tire to produce otherwise we would have more options. i feel like there is a fine line being tread between weight and durability.


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## Flash (Jan 30, 2004)

I rode my Krampus in the snow for the first time last night. It was OK. Not awesome and not terrible. I would like a better snow tire for it. I'm wondering if the Dirt Wizard would be better. The Chronicle and Chupacabra look like great tires but not sure how they would do on snow and light ice.


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## frozenmonkey (Apr 30, 2012)

Hey Vik, sent you a PM.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Flash said:


> I rode my Krampus in the snow for the first time last night. It was OK. Not awesome and not terrible. I would like a better snow tire for it. I'm wondering if the Dirt Wizard would be better. The Chronicle and Chupacabra look like great tires but not sure how they would do on snow and light ice.


ice, you need studs, unless it is the ice with some texture to it.
hates are great on snow... i haven't had the knard through a winter yet, but i have a pugsley.
the dirt wizard, if its a nate like tire, should be good for certain depths and hardpack.
but when it gets deep you really need a larger footprint.


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## SyT (Jul 27, 2005)

Flash said:


> I rode my Krampus in the snow for the first time last night. It was OK. Not awesome and not terrible. I would like a better snow tire for it. I'm wondering if the Dirt Wizard would be better. The Chronicle and Chupacabra look like great tires but not sure how they would do on snow and light ice.


 I think you would be better off with a (any) closer to normal size, aggressive knob tire than the knard. I rode my knards in the snow last winter and it was easily the worst performing tire I have ever used in the winter. By far. A 2.2 Ardent was 10 times better.


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## Flash (Jan 30, 2004)

bmike said:


> ice, you need studs, unless it is the ice with some texture to it.
> hates are great on snow... i haven't had the knard through a winter yet, but i have a pugsley.
> the dirt wizard, if its a nate like tire, should be good for certain depths and hardpack.
> but when it gets deep you really need a larger footprint.


I have another hardtail set up with studs for slick ice. I'm talking about ice with some texture and such. The Wiz looks a bit more aggressive with more bite. Still not much float as it's still a 3 inch tire. As far as a 2.2 Ardent goes, it's been on my list of tires to try. Here in Michigan we have varied trail conditions throughout the year. That makes it kind of fun to try different tires. I've had decent luck with 2.2 Captains. Gaza 294's were good too but seem slow. All part of the fun I guess. I know the Krampus isn't really a fat bike or snow bike but I like it and don't reply want to buy another bike just for snow.


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

In most snow conditions I've been pretty happy with the Knard. Running down under 10 psi gets loads of traction without aggressive tread due to large footprint. That said there are conditions where they get squirrely and better treads would be welcome. On those occasions I roll 2.35 Nobby Nics on Flows. Between those two setups I can hold out until there are some long term impressions of the newer 29x3s.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

Following others on this thread, I've tried to set up my Knards tubeless on Rabbit Holes. The front tire is fine. The rear tire failed multiple times-- two different shops tried to set it up using Gorilla tape, and the tire sealed but it wouldn't hold air for more than an hour. Then recently I tried to do a split-tube conversion, but with an air compressor the tire was nowhere close to even sealing- I installed the split tube, put on the tire, tried to blow it up, and the air just came whooshing out.

Suggestions?


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

use a circumferential belt….one of those ratchet tightening ones or even webbing is sufficient…wrap the tyre so that is is forced down on to the rim bed. 

odd though, i did 120 tpi knards with split tube using a track pump - admittedly a large volume one...


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

I'm running split tube. I use a small compressor and just work the tire around the rim before I try to inflate. Sometimes, with the valve pointing down, I just press on the tire to compress it and it goes. 

27tpi Knards. Rabbit hole with rim strip and 1 wrap of gorilla tape to keep the strip from sliding around. It even setup on the same split tube after I had the Rohloff built.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Hey Vik,

Did you have any issues with front harness and Rohloff cables? I'm cabling mine up this week. I'm on a jones bar so things are a little different - but I just plan to run them on the DT with the mech box under chainstay. Will leave them long so the tuck up to the bars when my bags are on.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bmike said:


> Hey Vik,
> 
> Did you have any issues with front harness and Rohloff cables? I'm cabling mine up this week. I'm on a jones bar so things are a little different - but I just plan to run them on the DT with the mech box under chainstay. Will leave them long so the tuck up to the bars when my bags are on.


No problems Mike. Just metal housing ends as plastic ones will break. With the Rohloff you've got no return spring to deal with so tweaking the cables is not an issue.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

vikb said:


> No problems Mike. Just metal housing ends as plastic ones will break. With the Rohloff you've got no return spring to deal with so tweaking the cables is not an issue.


Thanks Vik!


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Almost ready to ride. by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Just waiting for my OEM2 plate... need to cable her up tonight.


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## NickyTee (Oct 19, 2004)

*Chronicles*

I've been riding the Chronicle EXOs for a few weeks now, I'm very happy with them. I'd given up on the Knards, just too fragile, had been running Minion DHF 2.5 EXO instead - very grippy, but not much cush. The Chronicles don't roll quite as fast as the Knards in a straight line, but you can hold a lot more corner speed. Where I ride, that means a higher average speed for the ride. I'm in the UK, have been riding some dry, some wet and muddy trails. These are the tyres the Krampus should've come with, I don't feel the need to back-off now. They aired-up easily with two layers of Duck tape and a split tube, popped onto the rim with a CO2 cartridge, no issues at all :thumbsup:


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

NickyTee said:


> I've been riding the Chronicle EXOs for a few weeks now, I'm very happy with them. I'd given up on the Knards, just too fragile, had been running Minion DHF 2.5 EXO instead - very grippy, but not much cush. The Chronicles don't roll quite as fast as the Knards in a straight line, but you can hold a lot more corner speed. Where I ride, that means a higher average speed for the ride. I'm in the UK, have been riding some dry, some wet and muddy trails. These are the tyres the Krampus should've come with, I don't feel the need to back-off now. They aired-up easily with two layers of Duck tape and a split tube, popped onto the rim with a CO2 cartridge, no issues at all :thumbsup:
> 
> View attachment 942053
> 
> ...


So they are available now to the general public? Gonna have to get some!


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## NickyTee (Oct 19, 2004)

They're available in the UK! I got mine from Charlie, but I heard Sideways Cycles also have stock.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bmike said:


> So they are available now to the general public? Gonna have to get some!


There are 3 different casing options so make sure you get the tire you want:

Chronicle | Maxxis USA


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

I love that pink Krampus! I thought of getting pink for mine, but then I decided I wanted more of a stealth color. But that lipstick pink is fantastic.

OK, so what am I doing wrong with my attempt at tubeless? I put on a split tube, but no Gorilla tape under, and put on the tire. With no air, the bead wasn't anywhere close to the rim where it should seat, and when I put it on the compressor the air just leaked out. 

I'm liking the Knards so far for my style of riding-- poking around, attempting to ride up ridiculously steep slopes. For me, what limits speed on corners is the rider, not the tire, so I won't try the Chronicle for that reason. The Knards aren't bad on pavement (though the Krampus is incredibly sluggish on the road), and I mostly always ride from my front door to get to dirt.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

the other Anne said:


> OK, so what am I doing wrong with my attempt at tubeless? I put on a split tube, but no Gorilla tape under, and put on the tire. With no air, the bead wasn't anywhere close to the rim where it should seat, and when I put it on the compressor the air just leaked out


You have to do one or both of the following:

- get air in the tire faster
- stop air from leaking out as fast

For example:

If you have a split tube with a removable valve core you can take it out and you'll increase the air flow into the tire by a huge amount.

You can also take some packing tape or a tie down strap and run it around the outside of the Knard so it pushes the tire down onto the rim to seal the gap better.

You can also lube the bead with soapy water so it will slide along the tube easier so it can snap into position.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

I walked the knards around the rim with my fingers to flatten them out a bit and try to move them into the bead seat. Blast of air from the compressor, although I probably could have done it by hand. Surly rim strip 1 wrap of gorilla tape and a 24" split tube.


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## NickyTee (Oct 19, 2004)

the other Anne said:


> I love that pink Krampus! I thought of getting pink for mine, but then I decided I wanted more of a stealth color. But that lipstick pink is fantastic.
> 
> OK, so what am I doing wrong with my attempt at tubeless? I put on a split tube, but no Gorilla tape under, and put on the tire. With no air, the bead wasn't anywhere close to the rim where it should seat, and when I put it on the compressor the air just leaked out.
> 
> I'm liking the Knards so far for my style of riding-- poking around, attempting to ride up ridiculously steep slopes. For me, what limits speed on corners is the rider, not the tire, so I won't try the Chronicle for that reason. The Knards aren't bad on pavement (though the Krampus is incredibly sluggish on the road), and I mostly always ride from my front door to get to dirt.


Thanks 

I was running the Knards tubeless, they seated fine for me. I took two strips of Duck tape, and stuck them sticky-side-to-sticky-side, being careful not to get any air bubbles. Then I taped this to the Rabbit Hole rim, with a slight overlap, I put the join at the weld in the rim. I then took a Schwalbe 24" tube, inflated to a few PSI, just to give it some shape. Seated it on the rim, made sure it was straight. Then I let the air out and split the tube around the circumference of the rim and pulled the tube out over the rim walls. Next, I put the Knard on the wheel, being careful to align it - this was with the 120tpi Knards. Next, I used a CO2 cartridge to blast the tyre onto the rim. Moving quickly, I then attached a track pump and imflated to around 30-35psi - you could hear the tyre popping onto the rim. After that, I fully deflated the tyre, unscrewed the valve core, injected some Stan's, then replaced the core. Inflated with the track pump again to 30psi, then do the Stan's shake, flipping for a few minutes on each side. Left them at 30psi overnight, fit to bike, then very carefully trim off the excess tube with a craft knife, leaving around 1-2mm exposed, you can barely see it, unless you look closely. Then drop the tyres to riding pressure......go ride!

I've used that same tape/tube setup for three sets of tyres now, just swapping the tyres over and inflating using the method above. For me, it's worked with Knards, Minions and now Chronicles.

Hope that helps :thumbsup:


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

Just set mine up tubeless yesterday. 27 tpi Knards with 1 wrap gorilla tape + 24" split tube + soapy water and seated with a floor pump.

Took her out for a spin and had the trails to myself on Thanksgiving morning. Still feel like a kid in a candy store on this thing.









Was running Flows / Nobby Nics (2.35) as an experiment for a few months, but swapped those out to another build. In the end the Krampus just ain't right without the bigger tires.

Have some Hugos on the way and gonna try those with my 120 tpi Knards. Should noticeably reduce weight and I'm real curious about the Hugos.

I may sell one set or keep and set up with another 29x3 tire choice to swap depending on conditions down the road.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

First very short ride on the Rohloff'd Krampus. Will take some reprogramming of the muscle memory for shifting. And ignore the floppy chain. Left the wrench on my bench and the wheel slipped a bit. Need to tighten it down even more. by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Rohloff'd Krampus rolling. Finally.


First very short ride on the Rohloff'd Krampus. Will take some reprogramming of the muscle memory for shifting. And ignore the floppy chain. Left the wrench on my bench and the wheel slipped a bit. Need to tighten it down even more. by mbeganyi, on Flickr


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

Waiting for my Chronicle, too, but only as rear tire...

two pics during an enduro race in belgian mud


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

Great pics. Krampus in an enduro - fantastic!


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

no problem!
just avoid long jumps and huge stones... With a big lefty it would be perfect!


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## crankpuller (Feb 27, 2004)

*my updated build*

Love this bike.


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## Flash (Jan 30, 2004)

crankpuller said:


> Love this bike.
> View attachment 942657


How much travel on that Fox? I want to put one on but I don't want to change the geometry. BTW, sweet ride. No dropper on mine yet.


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## crankpuller (Feb 27, 2004)

How much travel on that Fox? I want to put one on but I don't want to change the geometry. BTW, sweet ride. No dropper on mine yet.[/QUOTE]

120mm
Handles great - no regrets on the 120mm fork.

Its a giant overdrive fork - lots of clearance with the knard/rabbit hole


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Anyone else notice the 29x3 tires for $35 on Amazon ($40 with shipping)? Also includes a tube.
Innova 29 x 3.0 Fat Bike Tire
http://www.amazon.com/Innova-Gravity-Vidar-Black-Package/dp/B00PJ32U6U

The first review states "955 grams and looks real grippy." I know Innova makes the Surly Knard.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

renegade44 said:


> Anyone else notice the 29x3 tires for $35 on Amazon ($40 with shipping)? Also includes a tube.
> Innova 29 x 3.0 Fat Bike Tire
> http://www.amazon.com/Innova-Gravity-Vidar-Black-Package/dp/B00PJ32U6U
> 
> The first review states "955 grams and looks real grippy." I know Innova makes the Surly Knard.


There was word of that tire looooong ago, really before any other 29+ options were hinted at, but it seemed to be forgotten by most people. Good to see another option able to be purchased, though.


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

renegade44 said:


> Anyone else notice the 29x3 tires for $35 on Amazon ($40 with shipping)? Also includes a tube.
> Innova 29 x 3.0 Fat Bike Tire
> http://www.amazon.com/Innova-Gravity-Vidar-Black-Package/dp/B00PJ32U6U
> 
> The first review states "955 grams and looks real grippy." I know Innova makes the Surly Knard.


Tread looks a little better than the knard. Price looks awesome!


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

IMG_4024 by mbeganyi, on Flickr

winter ride on the krampus


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## Slash5 (Nov 27, 2011)

First one out on a fresh skim of snow.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> There was word of that tire looooong ago, really before any other 29+ options were hinted at, but it seemed to be forgotten by most people. Good to see another option able to be purchased, though.


The sidewall is marked Gravity Vidar. Looks like it is for the BikeDirect brands. 
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=122199864367&story_fbid=10153627182529368


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Double post


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

renegade44 said:


> The sidewall is marked Gravity Vidar. Looks like it is for the BikeDirect brands.
> https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=122199864367&story_fbid=10153627182529368


Correct. I made a post about these tires many months ago. Good to see them coming along!


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## Flash (Jan 30, 2004)

So the Innova is wire bead and 950 grams? Kind of looks like the Chupacabra, or the other way around.


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## Salomo (Feb 10, 2012)

After a year of consideration I came to conlusion that I do need a Krampus also. Just two rides down so far but I think I'm really going to like this one a lot.










Single speed 36-21
Zee cranks
Hope Pro II Evo / DT Comp / P35 Wheels
Knard 120Tpi tires
BB7 Brakes, Superstar Components discs 
Saddle ?
Spank stem, Sixc bar, RF post
Hope headset, spacers and seatpost clamp


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## takisawa2 (Sep 21, 2012)

Ooh, that's nice in black.
Loving my SIR.9 with a Dually & Knard up front.


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

Set some of the new Hugos up with 120 Knards.

Dropped almost 2 pounds on each wheel from my 27 Knard / Rabbit Hole / split tube setup.

We had a few days of rain so haven't had it out on the trails yet, but immediately notice the difference on the paved stuff...we'll see...


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

kdb71 said:


> Set some of the new Hugos up with 120 Knards.
> 
> Dropped almost 2 pounds on each wheel from my 27 Knard / Rabbit Hole / split tube setup.
> 
> ...


thats a sweet wheel option. What hubs and spokes did you use? The aprx 2lb difference, is that with the surly factory tube that weighs over 400gm?

ive considered this upgrade for my stock krampus. I could tell a diff just with swapping in some light tubes. 4lbs in rotational weight is a huge deal.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

I checked out the Hugos. $700 a rim? Not cheap.


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## Salomo (Feb 10, 2012)

the other Anne said:


> I checked out the Hugos. $700 a rim? Not cheap.


Wouldn't that be the price for full wheelset? At least the preorder price in Uk seems to be 110£ per rim.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

You're right, Salomo. Hmm. I wonder how hard it would be to swap rims.


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## Salomo (Feb 10, 2012)

Well, if you're willing to learn to build your own wheels, it's no biggie. ERD probably won't match so you'll need new spokes and build the wheel from the beginning. If the erd happens to match, then it's pretty easy. You can just tape the rims together and move the spokes one by one. Tightening and truing of course needed after that. 
I used this guide when learning and now I've built some 20 wheels with success.
Wheelbuilding book for building bicycle wheels

If you need someone to change the rim for you (and you need to pay for it), then I would probably rather sell the stock wheelset and by the full Hugo wheelset.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

I have a generator front hub and a Rohloff rear hub. I want to keep those hubs


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## Salomo (Feb 10, 2012)

Ok, got it. Well, then you just decide whether you want to learn to do it yourself or have someone else do it for you. If you plan to build wheels in the future, it might be worth it to learn it. Anyway, it's not rocket science, just takes some time.


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## takisawa2 (Sep 21, 2012)

I used an old XT hub & some 292mm spokes I had around to build my WTB Dually front wheel.
Building wheels is quite enjoyable.
Grind a screwdriver in to a nipple driver first & a lot of the work is done. It's just a case of being methodical. Screw down until the nipple driver lifts out, then half & quarter turns. I did the final tensioners on the bike with sticky tape as a truing mark.

Great to see the Hugo's finally out there.
Never know, we might see the Dirt Wizard soon. ;-)


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

Coleman22 said:


> thats a sweet wheel option. What hubs and spokes did you use? The aprx 2lb difference, is that with the surly factory tube that weighs over 400gm?
> 
> ive considered this upgrade for my stock krampus. I could tell a diff just with swapping in some light tubes. 4lbs in rotational weight is a huge deal.


They are the Stan's wheelset with Stan's 3.30 Hubs / Sapim spokes. I got them not new but unused and I assume they were taken off one of the new Niner ROS 9+ that ships with them. Old wheels didn't have the original heavy Surly tubes anymore, but the 27 tpi Knards alone were better part of a pound apiece heavier than the 120s. Add to that weight of split tube, Gorilla tape and differneces in weight between the stock Rabbit Hole wheelset and it all adds up...

I knew I'd have some weight savings, but was pretty shocked at how much. Beyond the weight savings these rims just seem to be a better design all-around. It's a whole new type of rim from Stan's. Completely different profile - not just the width. We'll see if that holds up to be true once I get trail time on them.

Looks like retail for the wheelset is just under $700, but I already got these second hand for well less than that.

the other Anne - I agree with Salomo...wheel building isn't alchemy. You do need the right tools and to understand the process though. After that some touch that comes with practice. Many good shops will walk through it with you and you can use their tools. Great skill to have...


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

kdb71 said:


> the other Anne - I agree with Salomo...wheel building isn't alchemy. You do need the right tools and to understand the process though. After that some touch that comes with practice. Many good shops will walk through it with you and you can use their tools. Great skill to have...


I think that's a little misleading- most shops are not going to lend out wheelbuilding tools and walk you through it. Advice and supplies- sure.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

GT87 said:


> I think that's a little misleading- most shops are not going to lend out wheelbuilding tools and walk you through it. Advice and supplies- sure.


mine will.

fwiw, when i needed to relace a cracked open pro rim on my dyno hub i taped the 2 rims together and redid the spokes 1 at a time.
i counted the turns on the nipples as i turned them and got them all snug.
i then took it to my lbs for final tuning / truing and tensioning.


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

the other Anne said:


> I checked out the Hugos. $700 a rim? Not cheap.


USD695 SRP for the *wheelset*


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

GT87 said:


> I think that's a little misleading- most shops are not going to lend out wheelbuilding tools and walk you through it. Advice and supplies- sure.


I didn't mean lend them out. I meant stand in the shop and do it with them. I know of a number of shops that do this. Also several that offer wheelbuilding seminars. Of course all shops won't do this.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Why is that we can barely get a second tire option in the 29+ market, but specialized can develop a fat tire for kids bikes?   
Specialized Bicycle Components


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## boogar73 (Apr 3, 2006)

renegade44 said:


> Why is that we can barely get a second tire option in the 29+ market, but specialized can develop a fat tire for kids bikes?
> Specialized Bicycle Components


How many 29+ bikes are in circulation?


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

renegade44 said:


> Why is that we can barely get a second tire option in the 29+ market, but specialized can develop a fat tire for kids bikes?
> Specialized Bicycle Components


my sense of it is that it isnt so easy to produce a tire that is both durable and light enough to be fun.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

boogar73 said:


> How many 29+ bikes are in circulation?


There seems to be a good selection of 29+ rims (even carbon) and wheels, how does one explain that?


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

temporoad said:


> There seems to be a good selection of 29+ rims (even carbon) and wheels, how does one explain that?


maxxis chronicle is out in the wild
bontrager chupacabra (out of stock)
surly dirt wizard (vapor ware at the moment)
vee trax fatty (seems available online)

would love to see a wtb take on this size.
i'm interested in the chronicle... seen them available (and then quickly out of stock) in the UK.


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## Flash (Jan 30, 2004)

A dedicated performance snow tire and a fast rolling tire(at least for 29+ standards) would be great. I know the Krampus won't be a race bike but for those that like to use it as a main bike these options would be great.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

ECR vs. Krampus comparo:

Wagonwheeled bicycle showdown - Surly Krampus vs. ECR | Off Route


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

^^thanks for that link. good info there. i have a stock ECR on order for my wife so we will have a krampus and ecr in our household. we arent going to be doing any treking soon but she loves the 29+ format and i went with the ecr for her because it seems a bit more relaxed in terms of the geometry and riding position. she isnt an agressive rider by any means. 

i will be sure to give some feedback, though it will be from a less discerning perspective for sure.


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ Thanks also - interesting stuff. It'll be interesting to see what people think of the Jones Plus frameset once it gets out there; those chainstays sure are long...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

satanas said:


> ^ Thanks also - interesting stuff. It'll be interesting to see what people think of the Jones Plus frameset once it gets out there; those chainstays sure are long...


I'm interested in that as well. My Krampus is a wheelie machine with the short CS. Which is nice as I can lighten the front end to get over stuff in a very controllable way.

It will be interesting to see what JJ's motivation for the long CS was.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

vikb said:


> It will be interesting to see what JJ's motivation for the long CS was.


It's so he can feel like a special snowflake.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

I have a carbon fork writhing a few mm of matching the surly fork. Thinking about lightening my front end even more....


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Root Ball by mbeganyi, on Flickr


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## csmo (Aug 11, 2012)

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/world/europe/krampus-he-sees-you-when-youre-sleeping-and-gives-you-nightmares.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=mini-moth&region=top-stories-below&WT.nav=top-stories-below


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## ak greeff (May 21, 2008)

Anyone try carbon rims on the Krampus yet? It seams like it would really liven up the bike!

50mm 29+ wheel

Carbon beadless 50mm wide 29 inch rims for 29 plus mountain bikes tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

ak greeff said:


> Anyone try carbon rims on the Krampus yet? It seams like it would really liven up the bike!


I was thinking about getting some 35-40mm carbon rims for the Krampus, but haven't been motivated enough to spend the $$ given my RH wheels are trucking along fine.


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## Flash (Jan 30, 2004)

vikb said:


> I was thinking about getting some 35-40mm carbon rims for the Krampus, but haven't been motivated enough to spend the $$ given my RH wheels are trucking along fine.


Same here. I haven't gone to lighter tubes or tubeless yet. Any reports on the Chupacabra? Seems like those and some lighter tubes would save some rotating mass, though I wouldn't want any less traction than the Knards.


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## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

I saw some 50mm carbons on alibaba. Anybody tried em?


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

I have Nextie 50mm rims on mine. Also previously had Derby 35mm rims 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Flash said:


> Same here. I haven't gone to lighter tubes or tubeless yet. Any reports on the Chupacabra? Seems like those and some lighter tubes would save some rotating mass, though I wouldn't want any less traction than the Knards.


I've setup my Rabbit Holes + Knards tubeless. They've been flawless.

I'll be getting some Maxxis Chronicles in the spring.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Flawless tubeless on the Derbys + Knards. 

The Nextie rims were a little harder to set up but once I got the Knards set up they seem like they will be fine. 

I'm with vikb - I will probably pick up some Chronicles this spring when they are available. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

I bought a pair of the Nextie rims. Not built yet, but they seem pretty good quality. Hoping to set them up with some chupacabras, which on prototypes I've seen coming in at 850-900 grams. I love 29+, been on the Krampus for 2 years, but the main draw back is wheel weight - on long climbing days it definitely has an effect. I'm thinking, expecting, that losing a lot of weight with this set up will have a huge upside.


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## mpolka (Mar 8, 2013)

View attachment 950624


I got mine setup with 40mm Nexties and Hope Pro 2s the other day. I started with the frame only so I haven't run it with proper 29+ tires yet but it rides great with Bonty 2.3 XR3s so far. The Chupacabras should be shipping Jan 12th according to the trek dealer site. The wheelset weighs 1876 grams without skewers and the whole bike with the 2.3 tires is 27 lbs 3 oz.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

renegade44 said:


> Anyone else notice the 29x3 tires for $35 on Amazon ($40 with shipping)? Also includes a tube.
> Innova 29 x 3.0 Fat Bike Tire
> http://www.amazon.com/Innova-Gravity-Vidar-Black-Package/dp/B00PJ32U6U
> 
> The first review states "955 grams and looks real grippy." I know Innova makes the Surly Knard.


Finally got the tire mounted up the other day. On the Rabbit Hole rims, it measured just 2.75" wide. Performance was good, but can't really judge much as it was the first frozen dirt ride of the season for me on the krampus.


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)

Mounted mine on a stans crest. Still need to measure


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## x3speed (Jan 18, 2012)




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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I'd go for some of those cheaper $40 tyres or wait to see what comes out over the Chronicle, didn't quite impress me much on the few rides I've had on it before I got sick. I know there's lots of new stuff should be coming out this year from the 29+ tyre thread, so if the Knards are working for you I'd hold of and see what emerges.



AOK said:


> Flawless tubeless on the Derbys + Knards.
> 
> The Nextie rims were a little harder to set up but once I got the Knards set up they seem like they will be fine.
> 
> ...


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

renegade44 said:


> Finally got the tire mounted up the other day. On the Rabbit Hole rims, it measured just 2.75" wide. Performance was good, but can't really judge much as it was the first frozen dirt ride of the season for me on the krampus.


Does the knard measure 3" on the same rim? This might fit more frames.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

SS Hack said:


> Does the knard measure 3" on the same rim? This might fit more frames.


yes, the knards are a true 3" tire. looking forward to trying the smaller cheap tires on a regular 29er.


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## 2whl-hoop (May 8, 2011)

*Geometry???*

I have a question, and this seems like probably the best place to ask..

I have a 2014 Mukluk that I used a 29+ wheelset on over the summer. One of the reasons I went with the Muk was I read somewhere that the geometry was very similar to the Krampus, and 29+ would work well on it. Overall, I was very happy with it except for on technical single track, specifically on a steep downhill with root ledges. Going down the ledges, I felt like I was going to go over the bars. Riding the same trail with the 26" wheels a week later, I felt fine riding down the ledges and didn't even need to dab a foot, I could just put the front wheel wherever I wanted and roll down.

Comparing specs I see that the Muk and the Krampus share the same 60mm bottom bracket drop, but the Krampus also has shorter chain-stays and wheelbase. Now I'm wondering if the Krampus has this same trait when descending, or if there is something else about the Mukluk that makes it feel this way. It is a size M (17") and I'm running a 70mm stem right now.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

2whl-hoop said:


> Now I'm wondering if the Krampus has this same trait when descending, or if there is something else about the Mukluk that makes it feel this way. It is a size M (17") and I'm running a 70mm stem right now.


I am on a size L with a 45mm stem at 6'1" and I have not found that to be the case. I have a dropper post though, which obviously helps, but it freezes up below about 15F and I've been riding with it up a lot more recently. Still don't feel like it has that characteristic.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

Mine is an XL with a 100mm stem. 
Although I absolutely love this bike on the climbs, descending this bike is more of a challenge than my other bikes besides the fact that the front tire has such good traction. Part of it may be the Lefty (which is not as stable as the rigid fork) and part of it may be the frame is too small for me which is why I have to use a 100mm stem so the steering is pretty slow with the big wheels.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

I should add a caveat to my reply - I've got a 130mm Fox 34 up front, which helps and obviously makes it handle very differently from the stock configuration.


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## yogiprophet (Jan 9, 2006)

hirschmj said:


> I should add a caveat to my reply - I've got a 130mm Fox 34 up front, which helps and obviously makes it handle very differently from the stock configuration.


Holy Shittt, that changes everything! How does it climb with the front end so slacked out and such a short stem?


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

yogiprophet said:


> Holy Shittt, that changes everything! How does it climb with the front end so slacked out?


I think it climbs very well, Surly designed the angles for between a 100-120mm fork, so this isn't so far removed from that. As far as I'm concerned it does everything perfectly. I can't imagine it riding better than it does right now. It's still a hardtail, so I think it climbs very well, but it absolutely murders descents.


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

Can't say I haven't experienced any tendencies to endo when riding down techie stuff on my XL Krampus with the stock fork, a regular seat post, and a 100 mm stem. The only issue for me was learning how to deal with the extra grip at the front in ruts and rocks.


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## 2whl-hoop (May 8, 2011)

Ok, thanks for the feedback. It will be awhile before the 29+ wheels go back on, but it's been bugging me, whether or not 29+ was a good choice for this bike. I will probably go another summer on them. Could be something simple as bad technique on my part too.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Maybe you just need a Krampus frame.


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## 2whl-hoop (May 8, 2011)

i considered that, but I'd also need new hubs. Overall, I'm happy with it except for some single track situations. I also considered going down frame size to tighten the handling up, but i don't know if that would make the endoing sensation worse...I may try a regular 29" tire too, and see how that feels...

Done with the thread jack now, thanks. since the geo-numbers all are pretty similar I just wanted to see if this was something that Krampus owners had experienced.


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## dovebiker (Jul 22, 2013)

Because of the different tire diameters between a 26x4" and 29x3" the Krampus ride height is about +20mm higher than most bikes which is probably why you feel pitched forward on steep descents. My custom 29+ rides about 40mm higher than a regular 29er - raised BB means I can easily clear stuff like logs whereas other are suffering chainring strike.


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

i cant say i have ever felt tendencies on my krampus to endo during steep descents but i will say that since i got a gravity dropper installed it has made descending much more enjoyable. FWIW i ride a small frame and it fits well.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

Sounds like a HORRIBLE idea. I wouldn't put a 2.2" tire on those rims let alone a 3"


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## BigFitz (May 14, 2014)

I put a race face 30t chainring on my stock Krampus and now the chain is rubbing the tire. It looks like the "built in" bushings on the ring bring the chain line closer to the inside of the frame. Has anyone else had this issue and if so what did you do about it?
Thanks for any help


"I should have checked myself"- from The Guy Who Wrecked Himself


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

BigFitz said:


> I put a race face 30t chainring on my stock Krampus and now the chain is rubbing the tire. It looks like the "built in" bushings on the ring bring the chain line closer to the inside of the frame. Has anyone else had this issue and if so what did you do about it?
> Thanks for any help


Before I went with the Rohloff I put a WolfTooth 30t on and it worked just fine.
Different spacers? Different BB spacers?


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

XT cranks 30t no problems, maybe a little buzz in low gear if Im really monkeying.


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## BigFitz (May 14, 2014)

I have the stock shimano zee cranks. I also left the spacer in fwhen I removed the chain guide. It would be worse without it. 


"I should have checked myself"- from The Guy Who Wrecked Himself


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

BigFitz said:


> I have the stock shimano zee cranks. I also left the spacer in fwhen I removed the chain guide. It would be worse without it.
> 
> "I should have checked myself"- from The Guy Who Wrecked Himself


Is the wheel in straight? Tensioned up right? Centered on the hub?


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## Slash5 (Nov 27, 2011)

Mine buzzes a bit with my RF NW 30T. Worse when I torque hard. Seems to have almost stopped lately - either it was the nubs on the tires or the tire has worn a bit.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

BigFitz said:


> I put a race face 30t chainring on my stock Krampus and now the chain is rubbing the tire. It looks like the "built in" bushings on the ring bring the chain line closer to the inside of the frame. Has anyone else had this issue and if so what did you do about it?
> Thanks for any help
> 
> "I should have checked myself"- from The Guy Who Wrecked Himself


I had the same problem, so I put an extra spacer in the external bottom bracket. Might have caused long term issues with the cranks though.... Shamans xt cranks


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## BigFitz (May 14, 2014)

Thanks guys. The wheel is slammed forward and locked in tight. I think im going to do what renegade did and and add an extra spacer to the bottom bracket. 


"I should have checked myself"- from The Guy Who Wrecked Himself


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

renegade44 said:


> I had the same problem, so I put an extra spacer in the external bottom bracket. Might have caused long term issues with the cranks though.... Shamans xt cranks


with two 2.5 mm spacers on my krampus, my shimano deore crankset (hollowtech, 2 piece, 2 bolt pinch) would repeatedly come loose no matter how tight, even after removing the plastic spacer that prevents overtightening.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

PretendGentleman said:


> with two 2.5 mm spacers on my krampus, my shimano deore crankset (hollowtech, 2 piece, 2 bolt pinch) would repeatedly come loose no matter how tight, even after removing the plastic spacer that prevents overtightening.


It was fine for the year of riding that I did with the spacer installed. But then I took the spacer out when I permanently went back to a 34t chainring. After that, it came loose on a couple rides. I had some other cranks available, so I gave up on them pretty quickly.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Some Krampus stoke from today's ride. Finally got mine back together after swapping to Nextie 50mm rims and swapping the Pike for a MRP Stage. Good stuff!


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## Flash (Jan 30, 2004)

MRP fork? How's the ride?


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Flash said:


> MRP fork? How's the ride?


Great! Still tweaking a little, but so far I am very happy.

I like it better than the Pike it replaced which is high praise given that the Pike was my favorite 29er fork until now. Chassis is just as stiff. The suspension action is very smooth with great small bump sensitivity. On bigger hits, I think the Stage does a better job than the pike of not blowing through travel.


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

Gopro pic from a quick ride today


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

^^looks like austin?


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## batreffi (Jan 23, 2015)

How much travel are you running on the stage?


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

batreffi said:


> How much travel are you running on the stage?


140mm


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

BigFitz said:


> Thanks guys. The wheel is slammed forward and locked in tight. I think im going to do what renegade did and and add an extra spacer to the bottom bracket.


Another option if you are running SRAM cranks (or possibly RF cranks) is to get a BB30 direct mount chainring. GXP chainrings are offset by a few mm towards the frame from the mounting point on the crank. BB30 rings are flat, which effectively moves the chain away from the frame by 3-4 mm.

I had thrown an extra spacer on the BB on my Krampus, but I kept getting creaking from the crank / BB area so I decided to try the BB30 route. So far so good. Shifts like a champ and the creaks are gone (at least for now).


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

Yep. Windy loop at walnut creek.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Untitled by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Oil change time.

And, picked up the fork with the Anything cage mounts...

Untitled by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Krampus got some piercings. Well, just a new fork. by mbeganyi, on Flickr


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

tim_w_sage,

were you at reveille peak about a month ago? i passed a beige colored krampus like yours with a black fork. maybe that was you?


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

More Krampus fun! My FS bike is starting to gather dust...

Liking the combination of wider rims (I swapped from 35mm derbys to 50mm nexties) and the new Stage fork more and more with each ride.

Next update will be tires -- I ordered a Chupacabra for the rear today. I may try one of the Vidars on the front.


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## Flash (Jan 30, 2004)

Nice to see the Krampus tested in the new Mountain Bike Action.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Flash said:


> Nice to see the Krampus tested in the new Mountain Bike Action.


What did they have to say about it?


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## Flash (Jan 30, 2004)

They didn't touch on points that I like. Never mentioned how a suspension fork can broaden its range. Seems like they set the tires at 12 and left them. To me that's kind of a waste because the Krampus has a different feel when you change a few lbs. They did seem to like it but maybe they stick to generalizing a bit too much. I guess I have a bit different opinion. Having the lighter Knards and lighter tubes on mine means it spins up faster than their test bike. I think that makes pretty big difference sprinting on flats and climbing. They did have some nice action shots of the bike which is always nice to see!


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Flash said:


> They didn't touch on points that I like. Never mentioned how a suspension fork can broaden its range. Seems like they set the tires at 12 and left them. To me that's kind of a waste because the Krampus has a different feel when you change a few lbs. They did seem to like it but maybe they stick to generalizing a bit too much. I guess I have a bit different opinion. Having the lighter Knards and lighter tubes on mine means it spins up faster than their test bike. I think that makes pretty big difference sprinting on flats and climbing. They did have some nice action shots of the bike which is always nice to see!


In other words, Surly won't make with the big ad money.


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## Flash (Jan 30, 2004)

I guess you have to read it. They liked it but just not as much as I do. They certainly didn't dislike it but ya, I don't see big ad money rolling in.


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## jujuyak (Feb 16, 2008)

I've been trying to find the weight of the stock RH wheelset. Getting upgraditis. 
Thanks


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

So, I've been riding my Krampus with a Blunt35 wheelset, with Knards, since I built the bike (almost 18 months ago). I'm thinking about building another wheelset, but with Rabbit Holes. My question is this - does anyone have any real-world experience riding both rims back-to-back and can you comment on the differences? I'm curious about cornering traction, cush/float, tire stability and pressures. 

I'm reluctant dropping lots of cash on new wheels unless it's going to be a big improvement.


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## octavius (Sep 26, 2008)

pulsepro: i've spent a loads of time riding a knard on the front of my jones on a p-35. a friend has them on f+r on rabbit holes on his surly ecr. the extra 15mm makes quite a visual difference and the tyre is definitely squarer.

i'd thought about doing the same as you (also considered duallys) but in my limited experience out for spin on his bike, i'd choose to tinker on another upgrade thats got a bigger 'gain'.

just my 2pence/cents worth...


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

Thanks octavius. That's exactly the type of feedback I was looking for. Much appreciated.


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## lewisbricktop (Jan 7, 2011)

For you folks who have ordered Nextie rims, did you get center drilled holes or 2.5mm offset, and why?


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## dRjOn (Feb 18, 2004)

You can probably work it out by looking at the hub flange spacing of the intended build. If the flanges are farther apart than a typical mtb - ie 135 or 150 front, 170+ rear, you'll want 2.5mm offset. This means the spokes aren't approaching the rim at quite as extreme an angle, if that makes sense?


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Guess I'm joining the Krampus party. Just picked up my build from the shop on Saturday, first ride was yesterday (Sunday).

I live at sea-level. Built as a SS on Velocity 35 Blunts with Maxxis Ardents, for now. (velomine.com has the Blunts for a great price from time to time, but you have to check frequently as they sell out fast. They also have the 25 mm's available). The second bottle cage is a challenge since the size small only came with one set of bottle cage bosses. I ordered the frameset from Ebay with an uncut steerer tube, it didn't indicate the small only came with one on the Surly website. Kind of wish I'd gone with a size medium since I'm between sizes and could probably have managed. (I'm 5'7" with a 33.3 inch inseam and long arms). Too late now, though!

I ordered the Jones H bars from Jones, and the Odi custom grips from...Odi.  Raceface crankset. Surly conversion kit. Went with simple TRP Spyke mechanical discs. And Avid brake levers as they are much cheaper than the TRP levers.

Need to put better pedals on this bike. I was thinking maybe DMR Vaults. Anyone have experience with them?

I'm not really a mountain-biker, but have been a roadie since I was a child (I'm 45), and enjoy taking my CAADX offroad.

Looking forward to developing on this bike!


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## VTmojo (Apr 15, 2007)

*"Donate 5 Bucks and win a SURLY KRAMPUS"*

"Donate 5 Bucks and win a SURLY KRAMPUS"

Every $5 donation you get a chance to win a SURLY KRAMPUS, in Moonlit Swamp Color, winner chooses size.

Why should you donate more than $5? It's simple math, the more you donate, the more chances you have to win this 29 INCH PLUS sized beast of a bike. And more importantly, the more money we raise for trail grants and advocacy to ensure the sustainable future of mountain biking in Vermont. VMBA is working hard at expanding FAT bike access on state and federal land; this raffle will help further our efforts.

Like the awesome event poster by New Duds? The first 50 to donate $50 or more will receive a limited edition hand signed poster!

Donate at www.VMBA.org. The winner will be announced on Saturday, February 28 at Winterbike 2015 in Kingdom Trails. Winner need not be present to win.

#vmba @The Official Intergalactic Surly Regional HQ @The Old Spokes Home @New Duds @vmba802 @Vermont Mountain Bike Association


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

VTmojo said:


> "Donate 5 Bucks and win a SURLY KRAMPUS"
> 
> Every $5 donation you get a chance to win a SURLY KRAMPUS, in Moonlit Swamp Color, winner chooses size.
> 
> ...


I was going to buy a Krampus at my LBS but when I asked if it could be used as a fat bike the salesman said that Kingdom Trails and other trail networks don't allow bikes with less than 4" (3.8") wide tires. That makes the Krampus a poor bike to win if this is for raising fatbike trail riding awareness: even a Pugsley would be a better bike for it.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

VTmojo said:


> "Donate 5 Bucks and win a SURLY KRAMPUS"


Can the winner be from outside the US or is this contest open only to US residents?


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## VTmojo (Apr 15, 2007)

CannondaleF9 said:


> I was going to buy a Krampus at my LBS but when I asked if it could be used as a fat bike the salesman said that Kingdom Trails and other trail networks don't allow bikes with less than 4" (3.8") wide tires. That makes the Krampus a poor bike to win if this is for raising fatbike trail riding awareness: even a Pugsley would be a better bike for it.


True, the Krampus is NOT a fat bike but does rip as a trail bike monster and is great for in between seasons...IMO. VMBA would have LOVED to raffle a FAT bike but all the mfg's were unable to donate one (supply & demand). Either way a Krampus is one sweet raffle bike, the money goes toward more trails, better trails, and access (summer and winter). For 5 bucks you can't go wrong.


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## VTmojo (Apr 15, 2007)

driver bob said:


> Can the winner be from outside the US or is this contest open only to US residents?


Open to all. We'll ship it, thanks!


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

VTmojo said:


> True, the Krampus is NOT a fat bike but does rip as a trail bike monster and is great for in between seasons...IMO. VMBA would have LOVED to raffle a FAT bike but all the mfg's were unable to donate one (supply & demand). Either way a Krampus is one sweet raffle bike, the money goes toward more trails, better trails, and access (summer and winter). For 5 bucks you can't go wrong.


That is true, it would be nice to win a good bike no matter what it is. And it is a great cause to donate to.


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)




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## aybee (Feb 2, 2014)

Got this stock ops version barely used at a very, very good deal I wasn't able to refuse. Tire nubs were still present on both tires. Did commute and trails for dialing-in, and while it was a fun, fun ride I figured I would want to go for longer handlebars (the stock came with 700mm width), maybe hydros (I find the BB7s I bit underwhelming), 42T cogs (the ascents killed me with the stock 11-36 setup), ghetto tubeless and / or carbon hoops (the knard-RH combo felt sluggish at climbs).

I zoomed through descents with this bike. It was so confidence-inspiring that I ran out of talent and had a crash on a downhill portion I usually (but slowly) clear on an XC bike, which resulted in a slight tacoing of the rear wheel. Bike and rider's ok after the crash.


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## bnj33 (Feb 7, 2015)

Hi guys ,


I am French and I have to draft mount me a Krampus OPS I have already gathered a lot of parts (Transmission Shimano XT, stem / handlebar / seatpost RF Turbine, Avid Elixir 9 Trail brakes) I'm going to get fit a pair of wheels on basis of Velocity Blunt 35 and Hope Hubs and I hesitate to directly change the fork for a carbon fork... My problem is my template from 230/250lbs carbon makes me a little afraid, that's why that I I address to you could you advise me reliable and solid carbon forks!

Thanks much for your advice

Excuse me for my bad English ...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bnj33 said:


> I hesitate to directly change the fork for a carbon fork... My problem is my template from 230/250lbs carbon makes me a little afraid, that's why that I I address to you could you advise me reliable and solid carbon forks!
> 
> Thanks much for your advice
> 
> Excuse me for my bad English ...


Your English is just fine.

I would stick with the stock steel fork. You are a big guy so losing 1lb from your fork isn't going to make a difference. Ride the stock fork and see what you think after a few months.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

For those of you who have set up Knards tubeless on Rabbit Holes, how long do your tires hold air? I have my front tire set up tubeless, but it goes flat in a day. I'm trying to decide whether to go tubeless on the Great Divide, but I don't want to have to pump up my tires every morning.

Perhaps I'm doing something wrong?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

the other Anne said:


> For those of you who have set up Knards tubeless on Rabbit Holes, how long do your tires hold air? I have my front tire set up tubeless, but it goes flat in a day. I'm trying to decide whether to go tubeless on the Great Divide, but I don't want to have to pump up my tires every morning.
> 
> Perhaps I'm doing something wrong?


Weeks actually months really if we are talking about how long they take to go flat.

I rode my tubeless Knards on tour for a week and didn't use a pump the whole time.

I don't mind adding air to tubeless tires once per week...more than that and I'll tweak the setup to get a better seal.


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## bnj33 (Feb 7, 2015)

Hi Vikb,


Thanks for your reply!

It is true that changing the steel for a carbon fork me will save between 1.1 and 1.3lbs but I really don't want to gain weight at the expense of soundness/reliability !

I believe that as a first step I will like you the advice Vikb start with the steel fork !

However that advise you as model headset ! I'd like an aesthetic issue have a red headset...

Regarding the tires I think I'll go on with Vee Rubber Trax Fatty 72tpi I ride with the tire on my Kona Unit Front 29 + (on a ZTR Arch wheel) and I am rather glad it isn't too heavy (2.09lbs) this easily assembled in Tubeless and seems pretty solid (I am 1200kms at the moment). If some of you have test Trax Fatty and can compare it to the Maxxis Chronicle I am taking your feedback! Unfortunately I think that the Chupacabra Bontrager is not ready to arrive in Europe and France...


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

I decided to give the Lefty fork a shot since I have a lefty/29+ setup on a bike i just finished building up.

IMG_1019 by tim_w_sage, on Flickr
IMG_1016 by tim_w_sage, on Flickr


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## Steve5S (Jun 14, 2004)

Hey that's cool, would you mind talking me though the conversion/ build. How much tyre clearance is there on the fork leg?


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

Heckuva nice ride there Tim.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

tim_w_sage said:


> I decided to give the Lefty fork a shot since I have a lefty/29+ setup on a bike i just finished building up.
> 
> IMG_1019 by tim_w_sage, on Flickr
> IMG_1016 by tim_w_sage, on Flickr


I did a Lefty a couple years ago too. Here are some pics for any others interested.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Then, I did this Lefty next. Not a Krampus, but it was certainly inspired by one


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Nice build ale50ale....that top cap doe!! haha


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## philoanna (Mar 1, 2008)

*Size question*

I haven't been through this entire thread yet. This is probably discussed, but I am about 5'9.5" and I wear 29 length pants.
I have an opportunity to test ride a small Krampus. It has 175mm crank arms and a set back set post. 
Am I too tall for a small?


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

I have 120 TPI Knards setup on Velocity Duallys (I know not the same rim, but . . . .) tubeless and lose around 1-2 pounds per week. Sounds like you are running into the horrible size variation present in the Knards, and may need to add another layer of tape/whatever to the front rim. About how much sealant are you using?


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

How much sealant should I be using? Is 4 oz enough?


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

LBS offered a bnib Krampus for $1200! I am really having a hard time saying no!


NO!!

NO!!


YES!!


NO!!


STFU!!


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

philoanna said:


> I haven't been through this entire thread yet. This is probably discussed, but I am about 5'9.5" and I wear 29 length pants.
> I have an opportunity to test ride a small Krampus. It has 175mm crank arms and a set back set post.
> Am I too tall for a small?


I'm 5'8" with 30ish pants inseam. Medium was perfect, thought it would have been too big, but it works.

Only way to know is try it.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

philoanna said:


> I haven't been through this entire thread yet. This is probably discussed, but I am about 5'9.5" and I wear 29 length pants.
> I have an opportunity to test ride a small Krampus. It has 175mm crank arms and a set back set post.
> Am I too tall for a small?


I'm 5'7" 33.5 inch cycling inseam. (So, 35 inch pant inseam. I'm female, btw, so different proportions from most Krampus riders since it's more a guy's bike). I have a small Surly Krampus. Should have gotten the medium, though the small works with a 100 cm, 17 degree stem angled up.

The small Krampus actually comes with a 60 cm stem. Putting such a long stem on it, to me, means I should have gone up a size. But I built it from a frame set, and am more accustomed to road bike sizing.

Besides, the small only has one set of water bottle bosses.

Caveat. I apparently have short femurs, ride a zero-offset seat post on all my bikes, this brings my saddle about 4 cm forward. Which means I can ride a larger bike than expected for my torso length. Even so, I checked into this thoroughly before getting my frame set, too. I'd say size medium would be better. Your torso is more than 6 inches longer than mine, I guess. (And based on that, I would try to find a large surly to test, too).


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## Slash5 (Nov 27, 2011)

Muirenn said:


> I'm 5'7" 33.5 inch cycling inseam. (So, 35 inch pant inseam. I'm female, btw, so different proportions from most Krampus riders since it's more a guy's bike).


Wow, I know women have different proportions than men but I'm 6'1" and have a 32" inseam measured at 34" for cycling.
Isn't yours backwards? Your cycling inseam should be longer than your pants inseam.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Slash5 said:


> Wow, I know women have different proportions than men but I'm 6'1" and have a 32" inseam measured at 34" for cycling.
> Isn't yours backwards? Your cycling inseam should be longer than your pants inseam.


Pants wih a 35 inch inseam fit me well wearing shoes. My PBM IS 33.5. Most women's pants are 32 inches, and they make me look like Steve URKLE.

Very petite women sometimes have insanely long legs in proportion to their heights. Like someone who is 5'2 or 5'3" May have a 30" measurement. I think after a certain height, the torso is more often longer in proportion. 40 inch legs would be problematic. (I'm picturing Joint problems that probably wouldn't happen with someone smaller. In fact, my sister is 5 inches taller than me, so six feet, but her legs are not anywhere near 38.5 inches long).


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

jonshonda said:


> LBS offered a bnib Krampus for $1200! I am really having a hard time saying no!
> 
> NO!!
> 
> ...


Did you buy it? I paid $50 more for a used Krampus. Mine came with a carbon fork and custom paint too. Prior to seeing the one I bought I couldn't fine a used Karmpus for less than $1400 - $1500.


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

the other Anne said:


> How much sealant should I be using? Is 4 oz enough?


I think I put around 5 oz to ensure everything sealed up since the knards aren't a tubeless ready tire.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

@croatiansensation, that's good advice. I had someone else set up my tires tubeless. Actually two different someones. The front tire kept air for a few months and then failed. The rear tire failed, twice, overnight. In the case of the front, and perhaps the rear as well, probably more sealant would have been better.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Anyone use the Hugos yet? I'm wondering how much sealant I'll need - perhaps 3 or 4 oz?


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## kdb71 (Feb 19, 2014)

SS Hack said:


> Anyone use the Hugos yet? I'm wondering how much sealant I'll need - perhaps 3 or 4 oz?


I'm running Hugos. I used about 4 oz, but probably could have used less. Set them up a couple months ago and still can hear some Stans sloshing around in there.


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

SS Hack said:


> Anyone use the Hugos yet? I'm wondering how much sealant I'll need - perhaps 3 or 4 oz?


Hugos here, I just put in the small 2oz bottle in each tire. With the chupacabras didn't need it to seal the rim just for punctures. Bontrager sealant.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks Hugo guys for the help. I've got a wheelset coming and will attempt to setup the cheapo Innovas on them. Stan has never failed me yet - I may need more sealant for these things - but for 35 bucks it is worth a try.


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## bnj33 (Feb 7, 2015)

Do you know a good shop online or I can order a Bontrager Chupacabra because here in France these tires are unfortunately unavailable !
I search also a good headset to mount on my Krampus, what model and what brand (cane creek, Hope, etc...) do you recommend ?


Thank you !!


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## tirsintarsi (Feb 17, 2014)

bnj33 said:


> Do you know a good shop online or I can order a Bontrager Chupacabra because here in France these tires are unfortunately unavailable !
> I search also a good headset to mount on my Krampus, what model and what brand (cane creek, Hope, etc...) do you recommend ?
> Thank you !!


I don't know about the tyres but my Krampus headset is Chris King InSet i1 beacause of the colour. Little bit expensive but no broblems so far (about for a half year hard driving).


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Trek

Trek has a French site. Not sure if you can get the tires, but worth a try.

The headset is 1 1/8 inch or 2.85 cm. Mine is an FSA S3. But Chris King would look better.


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

Muirenn said:


> Trek
> 
> Trek has a French site. Not sure if you can get the tires, but worth a try.


I live in Switzerland and I've checked here with one shop and a buddy checked in Germany as well. It seems that the whole of Trek Europe has no Chupacabras in the program for 2015. They told both shops that it might happen for 2016 but we would have to wait and see. It sounds like we'll have better luck getting the new Panaracer tires instead. There's also a new Geax/Vittoria that I'm attempting to get my hands on. If I find out anything, I'll pass on the info.


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

Muirenn said:


> The headset is 1 1/8 inch or 2.85 cm. Mine is an FSA S3. But Chris King would look better.


The Karmpus uses a 44mm headset, not a 1 1/8.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Captain_America1976 said:


> The Karmpus uses a 44mm headset, not a 1 1/8.


Fork is 1 1/8 however. I used a $45 cane creek and it seems decent.


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

philoanna said:


> I haven't been through this entire thread yet. This is probably discussed, but I am about 5'9.5" and I wear 29 length pants.
> I have an opportunity to test ride a small Krampus. It has 175mm crank arms and a set back set post.
> Am I too tall for a small?


I am 5' 9" with about a 30.5 inseam. I felt fine on a medium, but don't have much stand over clearance. I wondered a little about a small fitting me. I know I had an absolute blast on the medium! I haven't come across a small to try. At 260 lbs, I may be better off with a medium.


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## suravida (Oct 11, 2008)

FoafInTX said:


> I am 5' 9" with about a 30.5 inseam. I felt fine on a medium, but don't have much stand over clearance. I wondered a little about a small fitting me. I know I had an absolute blast on the medium! I haven't come across a small to try. At 260 lbs, I may be better off with a medium.


I am 175cm (apparently 5' 8 and 5/6") and riding a small Krampus OPS with a 55mm stem and no setback. Fits me fine, a bit compact maybe, but makes it nice and playfull.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

I'm 5'8" and ride a small. I could have fit on a medium too, but I preferred the small. I like the lower standover, for one thing, and small just felt better to me.

One thing that might tip the balance for you if you plan to bikepack: the main triangle on the small is tiny. If you use a frame bag, you can't fit very much in it.


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## mpolka (Mar 8, 2013)

*Krampus Build*

i finally got a couple pics worth sharing of my Krampus



















Here's a brief run down of my build

Drivetrain: 1x10 XTR with 34t wolftooth ring
Brakes: XT, 180 mm front, 160 mm rear
Wheels: Nextie 40mm hookless to Hope Pro2 Evo
Tires: Bontrager Chupacabras
Handlebar: Nitto Fairweather Bullmosse
Seatpost: Thomson Elite 
Headset: Chris King


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## aybee (Feb 2, 2014)

Awesome ride, the enve fork rides like a dream - removed some of the sluggish steering. Stiff, stiff, stiff though, but not jarring. Tracks straight and true when braking hard and going fast into corners. Complements the beefy tires when gobbling up trail chatter. Just wished that I had more traction up front. Seems like the lower A-C did not throw off the geometry, made it a playful XC bike with monster tires. I also need to compensate for the lighter front-end.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

1 Speed said:


> I live in Switzerland and I've checked here with one shop and a buddy checked in Germany as well. It seems that the whole of Trek Europe has no Chupacabras in the program for 2015. They told both shops that it might happen for 2016 but we would have to wait and see. It sounds like we'll have better luck getting the new Panaracer tires instead. There's also a new Geax/Vittoria that I'm attempting to get my hands on. If I find out anything, I'll pass on the info.


The Maxxis Chronicles look promising. Maxxis makes great mountain bike tires in general. I've Ardents on mine now as I don't really need 3 " tires, yet. Great quality. Tread might be more aggressive, though.

you could try US ebay.


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## MussEd (May 25, 2007)

Just finished my Krampus this evening...









Ops frameset 19"
Light Bicycles hookless carbon rims on Pro 2 Evo hubs
Maxxis Chronicle tubeless
XX1 drivetrain 34t front 
Formula R1 brakes
Easton Haven carbon bars/stem
Thomson post
Charge Knife Ti rail saddle
XT pedals


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## mpolka (Mar 8, 2013)

aybee said:


> Awesome ride, the enve fork rides like a dream - removed some of the sluggish steering. Stiff, stiff, stiff though, but not jarring. Tracks straight and true when braking hard and going fast into corners. Complements the beefy tires when gobbling up trail chatter. Just wished that I had more traction up front. Seems like the lower A-C did not throw off the geometry, made it a playful XC bike with monster tires. I also need to compensate for the lighter front-end.
> 
> View attachment 970885
> 
> ...


Your bike looks great! I've been thinking hard about getting the Enve fork for mine. Are you running it with the 44mm of 52mm offset? I plugged some numbers into a trail calculator and came out with the trail only being 1mm smaller for the Enve set to 44mm. The head angle should steepen by about 0.5 degrees and the wheelbase should shorten by about 7mm.


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## aybee (Feb 2, 2014)

mpolka said:


> Your bike looks great! I've been thinking hard about getting the Enve fork for mine. Are you running it with the 44mm of 52mm offset? I plugged some numbers into a trail calculator and came out with the trail only being 1mm smaller for the Enve set to 44mm. The head angle should steepen by about 0.5 degrees and the wheelbase should shorten by about 7mm.


Thanks! It was actually an impulse buy - I have been looking at the Whisky No. 9 fork for the longest time but no timetable of availability in my corner of the world. I was about to go for the Niner RDO fork but the loud graphics did not go well with the flat / matte finish of the bike. Then when I paid a visit to this LBS to rebuild my Krampus wheels, what seemingly sounds like an innocent question "can I have a look at your enve 29er forks" led to "you need to put this in my bike!" and viola! No regrets so far - I'd say go for it.

I'm running the stock 52mm offset, figured that it would be closer in geometry with the stock build in the sense that the shorter A-C compensates for the longer offset. Like you, I usually put in numbers to determine geometry changes when replacing parts, but since this was an impulse purchase no chance of doing that. I'm curious of trying the 44mm offset though, I'm assuming it would make the geometry more XC-ish? We'll see.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

That Enve sure is slick and purty...

I'm a huge fan of my Carver 470 fork. I'm honestly not sure about the offset, but the 13mm shorter A:C really makes the Krampus even more fun... In fact, so many of my friends have raved about the handling and ride characteristics, that someone here in ATX is building a clone of my bike. Just saw the Doppleganger at Cycle Progression on Friday.


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

aybee said:


> View attachment 970887


La Mesa!

Very cool Krampus


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## dropperpost (Mar 10, 2015)

*my krampus*

my krampus:







i bought it lightly used for $1250 with XT hydraulic brakes and raceface narrow wide chainring. 
i added:
moots setback post
chris king sour apple headset and bottom bracket
nitto fairweather bullmoose stem/bar combo
raceface turbine crankset & chainring to match the king stuff
gorilla tape ghetto tubeless

future changes:
i have the chris king sour apple hubs, & i want to build them to duallys or p35 blunts. 
get a 120mm pike.


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## BigFitz (May 14, 2014)

I have a large framed Krampus and want to buy a revelate Tangle bag. I'm wondering what size bag to buy; medium or large. If anyone knows what size fits the large frame, I'd appreciate the info. Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

BigFitz said:


> I have a large framed Krampus and want to buy a revelate Tangle bag. I'm wondering what size bag to buy; medium or large. If anyone knows what size fits the large frame, I'd appreciate the info. Thanks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They are 17", 19.5", and 21" for small, medium, and large. So measure the inside distance of your top tube and get the one that fits.

https://www.revelatedesigns.com/index.cfm/store.catalog/Frame-Bags/TangleFrameBag

I have the size small for my CAADX with a 53.5 tt. Fit is perfect, but tight. Seems like the underside of the tt was 18 inches, but I'll get back to you. I believe my size small Krampus was an inch shorter than the CAADX. Might not work on the Small Krampu; mostly because th top of the triangle by the head tube is so tight.

i just measures my small tangle bag, the top portion is exactly 17 inches, but the ends make it more like 18 inches altogether. So figure the bags are about an inch longer than stated. The underside of the tt measures about 18 .75 inches. Perfect fit.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

BigFitz said:


> I have a large framed Krampus and want to buy a revelate Tangle bag. I'm wondering what size bag to buy; medium or large. If anyone knows what size fits the large frame, I'd appreciate the info. Thanks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Look at the surly framebag page here:

Cargo | Parts and Accessories | Surly Bikes

The charts should tell you what bag fits, and them you can see how long that bag is. Then get the Tangle that has the same top tube measurement.

Do you want us to do all the work?


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## bnj33 (Feb 7, 2015)

Must I choose my tires for my Krampus and I hesitate between the 3 models available here in France it is , Maxxis Chronicle, Vee Rubber Trax Fatty or Surly Knard 120tpi (27 tpi is much too heavy for my taste..), depending on your experience for dry, slightly sandy grounds and a tire that remains quite "wheelchair" that would you recommend?


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## dropperpost (Mar 10, 2015)

i have the medium tangle bag and it fits my large krampus but i think you could fit the bigger one in ther.


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## BigFitz (May 14, 2014)

Thanks guys. The dimensions of the medium seem closest so that's what I'll go with. I appreciate the help!


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## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

Sizing question: I'm 6'1" x 34 inseam and ride technical east coast trails. Do I want the large or extra large? I'm currently thinking large so that I can eventually run a suspension fork without banging me nuts.


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## mpolka (Mar 8, 2013)

edge said:


> Sizing question: I'm 6'1" x 34 inseam and ride technical east coast trails. Do I want the large or extra large? I'm currently thinking large so that I can eventually run a suspension fork without banging me nuts.


What other mountain bikes have you owned recently and what size(s) were they? Compare reach and effective top tube lengths between the bikes you are comfortable on and the L and XL Krampus dimensions. The standover height is over an inch higher for the XL so if you don't have real long legs you might be hurting your nuts with a longer axle to crown dimension.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

edge said:


> Sizing question: I'm 6'1" x 34 inseam and ride technical east coast trails. Do I want the large or extra large? I'm currently thinking large so that I can eventually run a suspension fork without banging me nuts.


I'm 6'2 with a 34" inseam and ride the same terrain. I've been happy with the Large. Even happier since I put the Float 34 on it!


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## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

Thanks Mpolka and seabass. I went with the large because ETT was closer to my monocog flight and I want something I can huck around on. Picked it up this weekend. Hit it with some frame saver and might make it ghetto tubeless before it's first ride. What's the trick to get rear wheels off with these new fangled derailurs? ?


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

I turned the clutch off and pulled the skewer. Came out pretty easy after that. I eventually went SS on mine so it's easier now. 
Ghetto setup is easy. I just put in my ribbon of choice, used one wrap of gorilla tape, and then used a 26" split tube. Some use a 24" tube. I had 26"s on hand so I went with those. Make sure you get tubes with removable cores. Makes it much easier to seal the bead with the compressor as you can get a lot more air in. Then I used 3 oz Stans and trimmed the skirt with a razor.


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## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

How do you release the clutch? I've been no gearing for too long.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

If it has one, theres a spring loaded on/off switch on the body


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

Hi!

Wich casing for my Chronicles to come?
I use to ride hard, in muddy or rocky trail, with my 27tpi Knards in tubeless, but I want a more agressive tire... 120tpi Exo? Is it ok with 10psi like with my Knards? Front or rear?

Thanks


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

Go EXO TR. That will cover you for sidewall protection, and tubeless ready.


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

Thank you, captain


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

SeaBass_ said:


> I turned the clutch off and pulled the skewer. Came out pretty easy after that. I eventually went SS on mine so it's easier now.
> Ghetto setup is easy. I just put in my ribbon of choice, used one wrap of gorilla tape, and then used a 26" split tube. Some use a 24" tube. I had 26"s on hand so I went with those. Make sure you get tubes with removable cores. Makes it much easier to seal the bead with the compressor as you can get a lot more air in. Then I used 3 oz Stans and trimmed the skirt with a razor.


fwiw, no need to use a split tube to run rabbit holes tubeless.

i used one wrap of gorilla wide tape and the knard seated with a floor pump. going strong for over a year.

imho the extra time/effort is not worth the hassle.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

*Small Krampus frame for sale*

I have a size small Krampus frame for sale. It comes with a carbon RSD fork (same as the one that comes on the RSD Mutant). $600CDN

PM me if interested


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Muirenn said:


> Pants wih a 35 inch inseam fit me well wearing shoes. My PBM IS 33.5. Most women's pants are 32 inches, and they make me look like Steve URKLE.
> 
> Very petite women sometimes have insanely long legs in proportion to their heights. Like someone who is 5'2 or 5'3" May have a 30" measurement. I think after a certain height, the torso is more often longer in proportion. 40 inch legs would be problematic. (I'm picturing Joint problems that probably wouldn't happen with someone smaller. In fact, my sister is 5 inches taller than me, so six feet, but her legs are not anywhere near 38.5 inches long).


Okay, at the the risk of sounding creepy here, I need to see a picture of you beside your small Krampus to be able to put this in perspective. I'm the same height as you, but your legs are 6" longer than mine. I also ride a small, and have a 300mm seat post that is nearly to the max height. By my math, you would need a 450mm seat post, right?


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## FloriDave (Jul 15, 2009)

New Krampus Owner here! At least a frame so far. 

Getting started building it up and need a crown race for the fork. Figure I'll just go ahead and get a complete headset. Can someone point me to just what I need, like the exact one? 

Edit: actually I just ordered the crown race I need to work with my other pieces and parts. 

Thanks!


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

Made a few upgrades to mine - Nextie rims and Chupacabra tires, one up drivetrain. Definitely a little more volume with the Chupacabras than the Knards. Really digging the tires so far.


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

bnj33 said:


> Must I choose my tires for my Krampus and I hesitate between the 3 models available here in France it is , Maxxis Chronicle, Vee Rubber Trax Fatty or Surly Knard 120tpi (27 tpi is much too heavy for my taste..), depending on your experience for dry, slightly sandy grounds and a tire that remains quite "wheelchair" that would you recommend?


I will warn that my experience is limited to a few hours riding, but the Krampus with Knards is very good in very loose dirt and egg sized rocks, also at smoothing out small bumps. I rode at 10 psi and was amazed. They are excellent all around tires, although I've heard not so good in mud. They are not at all bad on pavement, either.

I got to ride some Maxxis Chronicles 29+ on a Chumba Ursa demo bike on sandy, hilly, slightly wet trails, only 5-6 miles though. They were fantastic and I felt like I could plow over anything. I slipped once, that was in 3 in. of pure loose sand. I tried to ride these same trails on my 29er with 2" tires and gave up after a few hundred feet! I came away very impressed with the Chronicles and the 29+ format. I don't have any experience in riding "true" fat bikes in these same conditions, but the performance was very impressive!


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## dropperpost (Mar 10, 2015)

i have a question re. frame size. i sort of hastily bought my krampus, a large, because it was a really good deal and i was bikeless at the time (read: desperate). i have been riding it for a while and it has been fine, but definitely on the large side for me. i am wondering what size you guys ride compared to your height, reach, inseam, etc and how you like the fits. im 5'9" on a good day with pretty long legs for my height. my main concerns are standover and wheelbase. 
here is a pic of my current set up for reference:


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

I'm 5'8" and happy with my size Small. Medium would also have worked, but I find that I really like the standover.


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## dropperpost (Mar 10, 2015)

wow. that makes me want to switch to a medium. i would also benefit from having more exposed seatpost with my ti post being able to flex more.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

It's just one datapoint. Other people my size ride Mediums.


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## crankpuller (Feb 27, 2004)

5'10" and 32 inch inseam on a medium.

Have you tried an shorter stem and slide the saddle further up to shorten the cockpit?


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## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

updated pic of mine,


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

ale50ale said:


> Okay, at the the risk of sounding creepy here, I need to see a picture of you beside your small Krampus to be able to put this in perspective. I'm the same height as you, but your legs are 6" longer than mine. I also ride a small, and have a 300mm seat post that is nearly to the max height. By my math, you would need a 450mm seat post, right?


Center of crank to top of saddle is 73 cm, 350 is fine, 400 would probably be a bit better.

Your inseam is only 27.5 inches at 5'7"? My actual inseam is 33.5, not 35. Pants with a 35 inch inseam fit well. Though it depends on the brand, i think here is a lot of variability in how they measure.

I know some mountain bikers raise the saddle quite a bit higher. Mine is set to the same degree of flexation as my road bikes. I'm new to mb, so may do things a little differently.


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## Bullit_cn (Feb 24, 2004)

@Dropperpost, what stem+bar combo you got there?


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## dropperpost (Mar 10, 2015)

it's the nitto bullmoose threadless bar/stem combo made for fairweather bikes in japan.

FAIRWEATHER STEM by NITTO

the reach isn't too bad. ive even got a setpack post on there. i could put the orginal bars on with a shorter stem and switch to a non-setback post and the reach would be even less.
it's more the wheelbase and standover which bug me. like the overall size


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## Jstews (Oct 29, 2011)

MussEd said:


> Just finished my Krampus this evening...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@MussED.. nice build! Curious about the LB carbon rim/Chronicle combo.. how did it set-up tubeless? Which width rims are they?

Cheers


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## MussEd (May 25, 2007)

Thanks mate, they're 35mm rims and set up really quickly and easily. In fact i first set them up without sealant and they held pressure overnight until I had the chance to stick in the fluid.


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## Bullit_cn (Feb 24, 2004)

Nice build MussEd, what's the total build weight? Im considering an LB wheels too.
Thanks


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## MussEd (May 25, 2007)

TBH I'm not that much of weight watcher but think it's just under 25kg. 


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Surly Krampus in Bikepacking Kit by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Mine before an overnight.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

It's funny how we want to go lean and mean with a handlebar roll and a seat bag, but then we find out we need more space and we add a gas tank, a frame bag, a couple of snack bags, and Anything Cages. I'm not casting aspersions on you, bmike. My bikepacking rig is the same, except I can't fit a seat bag on the bike, so I have a homemade saddlebag instead.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

the other Anne said:


> It's funny how we want to go lean and mean with a handlebar roll and a seat bag, but then we find out we need more space and we add a gas tank, a frame bag, a couple of snack bags, and Anything Cages. I'm not casting aspersions on you, bmike. My bikepacking rig is the same, except I can't fit a seat bag on the bike, so I have a homemade saddlebag instead.


I hear you. I love my Krampus. But the triangle is more limiting than on my Fargo.

This was a shoulder seasons cold weather trip. I have a 0° down bag in the seatbag. Full kitchen with me, insulated sleeping pad, 70oz of water, filter, first aid kit, camp clothes (luxury), and a pillow. Along with full rain gear, tubes and tools. Folding saw, headlamp, camera, GPS, spot, personal meds, glasses, etc.

I can get this kit way more lean and mean. But for an overnight with friends and a chance of being cold I toured in relative luxury.

This kit with re supply and a couple of alterations would be good for perpetual touring. 
And I didn't bring a backpack.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

I'm doing the Divide this summer, and other than the folding saw, I'll be bringing everything you list. Well, OK, the sleeping bag will be a 20 degree bag, but other than that... I'll be gone for a long time, and I would get cold if I tried to go lean and mean.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

the other Anne said:


> I'm doing the Divide this summer, and other than the folding saw, I'll be bringing everything you list. Well, OK, the sleeping bag will be a 20 degree bag, but other than that... I'll be gone for a long time, and I would get cold if I tried to go lean and mean.


Good luck! That's something I want to do someday...


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

the other Anne said:


> I'm doing the Divide this summer, and other than the folding saw, I'll be bringing everything you list. Well, OK, the sleeping bag will be a 20 degree bag, but other than that... I'll be gone for a long time, and I would get cold if I tried to go lean and mean.


I did it in '12 and it changes you in ways you wouldn't expect. FYI - I'm not sure that a stove is needed unless you are even more of a caffeine junkie than I am. There are a lot of places for resupply. Lets put it this way, I never went to bed hungry. Shoot me a msg if you have any questions. Happy to help out.


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## mrsa101 (Jul 19, 2011)

For those of you that run a suspension fork, or anyone really, do you find the BB height to be too high? with the extra girth of the tires, it seems like an abnormally high BB even stock, with a 120mm fork i feel like that would be quite a bit too high.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

mrsa101 said:


> For those of you that run a suspension fork, or anyone really, do you find the BB height to be too high? with the extra girth of the tires, it seems like an abnormally high BB even stock, with a 120mm fork i feel like that would be quite a bit too high.


Nope. I've never once wanted a lower BB. Works great stock and with a 130mm fork.


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## coldbike (Feb 24, 2011)

mrsa101 said:


> For those of you that run a suspension fork, or anyone really, do you find the BB height to be too high? with the extra girth of the tires, it seems like an abnormally high BB even stock, with a 120mm fork i feel like that would be quite a bit too high.


I have not finished building my Krampus yet, but I have tried it on a Mukluk with the same BB drop and 29+ wheels. I think the BB height is pretty close to right for riding off-road. I am putting a suspension fork on mine. I would like a higher BB to give me better clearance for the 190mm long cranks I like to run, but that is not a failing of the bike.
if I wanted more road-like handling, I would probably think more about the ECR


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

dropperpost said:


> it's the nitto bullmoose threadless bar/stem combo made for fairweather bikes in japan.
> 
> FAIRWEATHER STEM by NITTO


Oh man that's a cool handlebar. Shame it's so narrow or I'd be tempted to get one.


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## Coleman22 (Nov 2, 2014)

here's some pics of my recent lefty addition. it all fit together really well. updated the cartridge to xlr. 

this thing is really fun. was really fun before but now its GREAT....


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## dropperpost (Mar 10, 2015)

decided to try the medium. if anyone is interested in trading their medium krampus frame/fork for my large, let me know!

or, if anyone wants to buy my large frame/fork/canecreek headset, let me know! 
i just think the medium will be better for me.









i'm in fort collins. text (310) 9636959 if interested. thanks


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## Witwickipedia (Apr 17, 2015)

Hey all! Looking to join the Krampus crew as soon as I can figure out which size to get. I'm about 5'10' with an inseam of 31.25 inches and 21 inch arms. I currently ride a Large Karate Monkey with Salsa Woodchipper bars and a stem of about 65 mm. 

Surly says that if you ride a large in one of their bikes than you should be fine in a large on any of their other bikes. Looking at the geometry of the Krampus and KM makes me think otherwise, or at least confuses me. The ETT of a Large Km at 24.3 inches is only a smidge longer than a Medium Krampus at 24.0 inches. Maybe surly factors in the length of the stock stem that comes with the bikes? If thats the case than the overall distance from saddle to handlebar would be similar between same sizes of the Krampus and Karate Monkey because the Krampus comes with a shorter stem.

Anyhoo I'm leaning towards a medium based on ETT length but not sure and need some pushing to give me confidence that i'm making the right(ish) choice XD. 

Thanks! 

Dylan


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

I'm 5 10 with a 32 inseam and I have a medium with a 70 mm stem, shorter bars than the stock bars.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I'm 5' 11" with 33" pant's inseam and ride a medium. ~75mm stem and narrow bars.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

I'm 5' 10" with a 31" cycling inseam and a ride medium with a 60mm stem and 750mm low rise bars. I've got a good fit, but wouldn't mind trying a short stem for kicks. I've had a medium KM in the past and liked it too, other than the HT angle.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

You need to look at effective tt, head tube height, stack, and reach to determine which is the same size as the large KM.

There is a tangential formula you can use to compare bike sizes with those numbers (I think along with HT angle, if I remember correctly, but it's pretty easy to compare bike size just by looking at the raw numbers.


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## Witwickipedia (Apr 17, 2015)

Hey thanks for the replies everyone! Yeee sounds like the medium is the direction I should go in! Putting my concerns at ease!


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## stringer4 (Jul 17, 2014)

What would be the best way to get myself into a more upright seating position?

I'm not trying to turn my Krampus into a beach cruiser, but I definitely have some significant wrist pain and numbness after a few hours of riding. I'd like to take a bit of that pressure off my wrists (and also arch my neck less, thus improving my neck comfort).

I understand the aggressive trail bike nature of the Krampus, and I certainly appreciate that and use it for the purpose. However, most of my time is spent in more of a bikepacking mode. I do some gravel roads, fireroads, etc. I'm more likely to do some stream crossings with a bit of modest up- and downhill, versus jumping over logs and doing super technical rock gardens and that sort of thing.

So losing some of the benefit of the aggressive, bent-over geometry isn't a HUGE concern for me.

Having said all that, would you guys recommend spacers, a riser bar (and if so, is there a certain model that seems most popular?) or something totally different? Thanks a lot for any insight you can give me!


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Are you running a flat bar? I built mine myself and have 20mm carbon riders and a 60mm stem. I might go with a shorter stem.


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## stringer4 (Jul 17, 2014)

Yeah, with the exception of my grips, everything is completely stock.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

stringer4 said:


> What would be the best way to get myself into a more upright seating position?
> 
> I'm not trying to turn my Krampus into a beach cruiser, but I definitely have some significant wrist pain and numbness after a few hours of riding. I'd like to take a bit of that pressure off my wrists (and also arch my neck less, thus improving my neck comfort).
> 
> ...


Jones Loop for me. I have them on the Pugsley and the Krampus. I have the Jones bend on the family hauling Yuba Mundo.

The wrist angle is more natural for me. I did not change out the stem.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

stringer4 said:


> What would be the best way to get myself into a more upright seating position?
> 
> Having said all that, would you guys recommend spacers, a riser bar (and if so, is there a certain model that seems most popular?) or something totally different? Thanks a lot for any insight you can give me!


A new uncut Krampus fork is ~$110 with it you could put the bars at a fairly high position without dealing with a fork steerer extender or new bars. Only comes in black.

Surly Krampus 29" Fork > Components > Frames, Forks and Suspension > Rigid Forks | Jenson USA

I've put a suspension fork on my Krampus that was used and had a cut steerer so I'm getting some high rise bars to put the grips higher than they are currently.

Race Face

If you were just riding dirt roads you could use a steerer extender, but the more real mountain biking you were doing the less excited I would be to go this route.

Delta Cycle Threadless Stem Riser - REI.com


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Get a Carver 490mm fork for $250 and you'll get some height and loose 350 grams. Edit: I'm planning on trying the Carver to gain height and loose some weight and will report back. The front feels a bit low to me too, but causes no problems.


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## rlcanon (Apr 27, 2013)

I'm running a jones bar in a hi-rise stem on an uncut steerer on my XL Krampus to put the bars a saddle height. (These pics show my cut stock fork; now running uncut black eyelet fork.)


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## bubba13 (Nov 30, 2009)

stringer4 said:


> What would be the best way to get myself into a more upright seating position?
> 
> I'm not trying to turn my Krampus into a beach cruiser, but I definitely have some significant wrist pain and numbness after a few hours of riding. I'd like to take a bit of that pressure off my wrists (and also arch my neck less, thus improving my neck comfort).


I just built a Krampus and did not like how the stock version felt either. (70mm stem/15mm spacers/stock fork/flat bar) Besides being set up with a suspension fork, I am running a 60mm stem, 15mm of spacers and a 38mm rise bar.

The handlebar is a Deity CZ38 and it features a 9.5 degree sweep. It is the only handlebar available with that much rise and sweep. For me, more sweep on the bar has helped with comfort and I really like the 760mm width for bike control. There are now more high rise bars on the market from Raceface, Easton, Renthal and soon ENVE. These bars all happen to be carbon and have various geometries, but all give 38-46mm of rise.

Cheers,


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

Another thing you can do to make yourself more upright is push the saddle forward. My Krampus is for bikepacking, and I find it more comfortable to get the saddle quite forward. It helps with seated climbing as well. When my saddle was further back, I found the front wheel wanted to wander on steep climbs.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I found the upright posture I desired on the ECR. I too use the bike primarily for backpacking and long rides so I chose ultimate comfort over the trail ripping qualities of the Krampus. I have/had other bikes that are better suited for fast singletrack and have been happy with this decision. I've also found that the ECR has no trouble moving fast on rocky singletrack. 

SO I know its not cool to ride an ECR I love mine.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

While I wait for my buddy to post a ride report from our 3 day trip a couple weekends ago. Here is a shot of my Krampus in action. This is its 3rd season as a bikepacking rig and I love it! The combo of the big 29+ Knard tires which roll so well and perform better in the traction department than they have any right to given the minimal knobs mixed with the Krampus's geo makes it awesome for a go anywhere touring rig.

From rough steep mountain hiking trails to GDR style logging roads and even all day pavement stretches to connect dirt - the Krampus delivers.

I have been tempted by some of the new fancy 29+ options, but I keep thinking I'll spend a bunch of $$ and not get the same awesome ride experience as I already have so I stay the course with the Big K. :thumbsup:


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I will add that if I was not 6'6" and using the bike for bikepacking I'd be rolling a Krampus as well. Tall fellers that want the bars to be level or near with the saddle may want to look at an ECR.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Matterhorn said:


> I will add that if I was not 6'6" and using the bike for bikepacking I'd be rolling a Krampus as well. Tall fellers that want the bars to be level or near with the saddle may want to look at an ECR.


I have yet to buy a complete Surly, but if you are buying frame/fork there is no difference in steerer length [260mm] between a Krampus fork and an ECR fork when uncut so the bars can be placed at the same height.

With the completes I am not sure how long Surly is leaving them for each model of bike.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

That may be the issue. I've ridden my buddies XL Krampus and while it was great I was definitely in a more aggressive riding position. 

Is the steerer length the only factor that determines saddle to bar height relationship? It would seem not. The Krampus may at least need more spacers. How does the bb drop affect fit? 

Either way I'm quite happy on the ECR. I'm sort of a contrarian and a luddite.


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

Surly complete bikes come with excess steerer tube. I'd be surprised if they were trimmed at all considering they need trimming to match the stack height of the included HS, spacers, and stem.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

vikb said:


> I have yet to buy a complete Surly, but if you are buying frame/fork there is no difference in steerer length [260mm] between a Krampus fork and an ECR fork when uncut so the bars can be placed at the same height.
> 
> With the completes I am not sure how long Surly is leaving them for each model of bike.


The Axle to crown length is different, so handlebar height should be different. The ECR max handlebar height relative to the ground all else equal is shorter.

Forks | Parts and Accessories | Surly Bikes 468mm a-c
Forks | Parts and Accessories | Surly Bikes 483mm a-c
So that's 15mm extra height on the krampus.

The ECR headtube tends to be longer, so that's fewer spacers, but no difference in max or fit (though minimum height would be affected).

The bb drop is 80mm on ecr, 60mm on krampus, so since the angles and offset are the same, relative to the seat, the ECR handlebars should be taller by 5mm.

Unless you're running a super high-rise stem the difference is meaningless.

To me, the higher bb bike is more fun and more stable (takes longer to fall over with higher c.o.g.). Bicycle stability is complex, so some will say lower c.o.g. is more stable. 
With ECR It's easier to put your feet on the ground while riding an ecr and staying in the saddle. If you're bike packing up a hill at <1mph, the lower bb may be helpful. Hitting your pedals on the ground when riding in ruts would be a good bit worse on ecr.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

PretendGentleman said:


> Bicycle stability is complex,


Yup. Once those big 29+ rims/tires get up to speed the Krampus gets very stable. Makes it pretty chill to bomb steep trails with loose surfaces.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Maybe it is like vikb once said, the krampus does not feel as big as the numbers suggest. Either way at least I don't have to even consider a suspension or carbon fork for my ECR. 

I'd still love to have a Krampus SS if anyone is giving away a XL frame set. Super curious about how the difference in bb would feel along with the different tubes. 

Thanks Pretend Gentleman for the numbers run down.


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## stringer4 (Jul 17, 2014)

Thanks a lot to everyone here for the great feedback.

It seems like the cost difference between a Jones H loop bar and a new, uncut Krampus fork wouldn't be terribly huge. I may just spring for the new bar.

However, before going for the new bar, I might take a smaller step and just change out the stem. Does there seem to be a consensus favorite among Krampus owners for a shorter stem and/or something with a significant rise?

I guess I could start there and then go with the H bar if I feel like I need to keep moving up and back. Am I thinking about that correctly?

For what it's worth, I recently put a Nitto Albatross bar on my Disk Trucker (swapped out the stock drops) and the difference is AMAZING. I feel like I'm riding a completely new bike. The difference is comfort is remarkable. I liked the drop bars and can obviously see their utility, but I'm learning that I'm just more comfortable in an upright stance. So I'm wondering if the Jones bar would deliver the same effect for me.

Again thanks for any words of wisdom. (Also, not sure if this matters a bunch, but I'm 6'4"). You guys rock.


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## jan_nikolajsen (Oct 28, 2011)

Try taking the measurements from the Trucker (bar height in relation to saddle, distance saddle to hand positions, angle of bars, etc) and replicate them on the Krampus. It's a different bike, but it's a start. Also the Jones is probably one of the few MTB bars coming close to an Albatross in shape.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Okay I'm convinced to give the Krampus a try. Might be unloading the ECR to a buddy and moving up (bb joke!). 

Sticking with the Jones bar though.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

the other Anne said:


> It's funny how we want to go lean and mean with a handlebar roll and a seat bag, but then we find out we need more space and we add a gas tank, a frame bag, a couple of snack bags, and Anything Cages.


I use different bags for different things.

No matter how little gear I have in my bar bag I'm going to always run a pocket on top of it and a gas tank on the TT.

Having multiple bags lets me organize my gear in a way I like which saves me time and energy looking for things. I also like to put the same item in the same spot every trip so if I was to ditch the gas tank in the summer when I had less in my bar bag I'd have to move stuff around for trips that req'd extra clothing in the bar bag.

I've tried fork mounted bottle cages and didn't enjoy having stuff there where it could get hung up on vegetation and damaged when I laid the bike down.

That's forced me to carry gear closer to the center of the bike where it affects the handling the least so not a bad thing. Ie. a 1.5L bottle on underside of the DT is the equivalent to two fork mounted water bottles, but is a better position to carry water.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

One trouble with carrying things on my Krampus near the center of the bike is the tiny size of the triangle on a small Krampus. I like the size of my Krampus, but my frame bag holds less than 5 liters. One Anything Cage holds more than the frame bag.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

the other Anne said:


> One trouble with carrying things on my Krampus near the center of the bike is the tiny size of the triangle on a small Krampus. I like the size of my Krampus, but my frame bag holds less than 5 liters. One Anything Cage holds more than the frame bag.












The Krampus's design is not optimized for carrying stuff inside the frame triangle. If I was building a custom bike similar to the Krampus I'd use a higher TT. I've never had issues with groin clearance and horizontal TT's on older bikes. But that's with a 33" pants inseam.

One way to get around this is to use the space below the DT as shown in the photo above. The bottle cage could be mounted quite a bit lower on a bike with a shorter TT and you could replace the water with cargo if desired.

Also seeing how my shorter friends have problems carrying gear on their 29er and 29+ bikes behind the seat I would say they are not well suited to folks with short inseams if you want to bikepacking with soft frame/bar/seat bags.

I have a friend that's quite short [5' and a couple inches] he's using a 26" rigid MTB and a rear rack to strap stuff to depending on the type of trip. In the Surly world he'd be on a Troll.

I wouldn't steer him to a 29+ bike as a bikepacking rig.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

> Also seeing how my shorter friends have problems carrying gear on their 29er and 29+ bikes behind the seat I would say they are not well suited to folks with short inseams if you want to bikepacking with soft frame/bar/seat bags.


I'm not as short as your friend, but I definitely have issues about fitting a soft seat bag and a soft bar bag on my bike. I didn't realize when I bought the bike that I would have those problems. In retrospect, a Troll with a front suspension might have been the better choice, given my intended use of bikepacking mostly on dirt roads. But here I am, and at this point I have the bike I have and I don't have time to buy a new one before my GDMBR trip this summer, so I'll make it work.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

the other Anne said:


> I'm not as short as your friend, but I definitely have issues about fitting a soft seat bag and a soft bar bag on my bike. I didn't realize when I bought the bike that I would have those problems. In retrospect, a Troll with a front suspension might have been the better choice, given my intended use of bikepacking mostly on dirt roads. But here I am, and at this point I have the bike I have and I don't have time to buy a new one before my GDMBR trip this summer, so I'll make it work.


I'm 5'8" and I felt I had to pay some attention to keeping front and rear bags off my krampus tires as I rode singletrack and doubletrack around Banff and K-country.

I always bring nylon straps made form 1" webbing and buckles so i can modify the shape of the bag to clear the tires.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

I'm 5'8".
Center of BB to top of saddle is 73.7cm.

I have reasonable clearance on a medium...

Surly Krampus in Bikepacking Kit by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Extra straps is always a good idea... extra food, shoes, rain gear, etc.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

For people in the 5'8" range, the issue is not height but leg length. I looked at your picture, bmike, and wondered where that extra clearance between tire and bag came from, given that we're about the same height. Ah. Your legs are long for your height, lucky you. I instead have a long back, which was good when I was a butterflyer but less good for bikepacking on a Krampus.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

the other Anne said:


> For people in the 5'8" range, the issue is not height but leg length. I looked at your picture, bmike, and wondered where that extra clearance between tire and bag came from, given that we're about the same height. Ah. Your legs are long for your height, lucky you. I instead have a long back, which was good when I was a butterflyer but less good for bikepacking on a Krampus.


Agreed. Just posted that to not scare off anyone who is 5'8" from a Krampus!
I do wish the triangle was larger... but... until I break this frame and have one custom built, I'll live with it.
A friend of mine, who I sold my Medium Fargo to, is taller than me, but rides with his saddle much lower, and his bars much higher... he's all torso and arms!

For your Divide ride... have you considered running 2.3s? That might give you some more clearance (not much, but maybe enough?)
On my Fargo, when I was deep into Divide fever, I was thinking of running a 2.1 Vulpine or Nano... I'd consider the same on my Krampus for something with that much dirt road and a lack of single track (although, the Knards roll really well for their size...!)


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

I have thought of 2.3s, but I suspect I'll really like the extra cush from the wide soft tires in New Mexico, so I'm sticking with the Chupacabras. Assuming a round cross-section, running 2.3s instead of 3.0s only gives me 0.7 inches of extra clearance. Not enough to warrant the change for me.


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

PretendGentleman said:


> I'm 5'8" and I felt I had to pay some attention to keeping front and rear bags off my krampus tires as I rode singletrack and doubletrack around Banff and K-country.
> 
> I always bring nylon straps made form 1" webbing and buckles so i can modify the shape of the bag to clear the tires.


Have you considered different ways to cut down on your pack size?


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

NickandBruce said:


> Have you considered different ways to cut down on your pack size?


not much at this point. I like to be comfortable and I'm not racing.

In the top 2 pictures, the seatbag is 100% food. The handlebar bag is 100% sleeping kit. I brought an overly warm synthetic bag to banff to be on the safe side, and while it was hot and bulky, I felt comforted knowing i could survive and stay warm with a lot of moisture on me. It was relevant because I almost lost my tarp over my hammock in a big hail/thunder storm. I literally had to hold on to my tarp while sitting in my hammock in my sleeping bag. I had to go out periodically in the 40F rain wind and hail, completely naked (so I could easily dry and jump bag in my hammock), to tighten my tarp lines and fix the stakes that were coming loose in the gravelly substrate of the lower spray lake campground. I have about 250 days of tarp camping under my belt and this storm was bad!









When I'm out, especially alone for days (I was far from the tour divide trail for 2/3 of my trip and occasionally would go 24 hrs at a time barely seeing any human life), I like to always have a cascade of options for what to do next if I am concerned about exposure. Full rain gear, a good sized tarp, a warm and synthetic sleeping bag (I'm from the wet southeast) are top priorities for overnight trips.

For doubletrack riding, I would have liked to put more weight on the bike. I have had problems with seat rails breaking from storing too much weight in my seatbag. But i decided not to store any food in my backpack since I want to be able to get away from my food in case of a bear attack (playing dead is very effective, but less so when you smell incredibly delicious to the griz).

Ultimately I'm buying a house later today (woo hoo! it's taken 6 months and 4 stressful offers) and my wife is pregnant with our 2nd, so none of this is all that relevant since bikepacking ain't happening any time soon for me. I just hope to do an overnight road ride on our tandem before the wife gets too big to handle it!


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

PretendGentleman said:


> not much at this point. I like to be comfortable and I'm not racing.
> 
> In the top 2 pictures, the seatbag is 100% food. The handlebar bag is 100% sleeping kit. I brought an overly warm synthetic bag to banff to be on the safe side, and while it was hot and bulky, I felt comforted knowing i could survive and stay warm with a lot of moisture on me. It was relevant because I almost lost my tarp over my hammock in a big hail/thunder storm. I literally had to hold on to my tarp while sitting in my hammock in my sleeping bag. I had to go out periodically in the 40F rain wind and hail, completely naked (so I could easily dry and jump bag in my hammock), to tighten my tarp lines and fix the stakes that were coming loose in the gravelly substrate of the lower spray lake campground. I have about 250 days of tarp camping under my belt and this storm was bad!
> 
> ...


good luck with the family.
my randonuerring time and bikepacking time is slowly on the increase... but its been cut way down since having our kids, getting into a house, etc.

now we do lots of this:
Bike lessons this morning. Ava bumped me and we went down on the ride camp this morning. by mbeganyi, on Flickr


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bmike said:


> For your Divide ride... have you considered running 2.3s? That might give you some more clearance (not much, but maybe enough?)
> On my Fargo, when I was deep into Divide fever, I was thinking of running a 2.1 Vulpine or Nano... I'd consider the same on my Krampus for something with that much dirt road and a lack of single track (although, the Knards roll really well for their size...!)


Please don't spread such heresy on this forum Mike! 

In all seriousness I love how the Knards roll. Pavement, hardpacked dirt/gravel, loose dirt/gravel, chunk rocks. mud/snow, etc...

My Krampus will never roll on anything other than 29+ rubber unless I shred a tire and have to get a replacement from a LBS.

I don't see the performance benefit of a skinny tire unless you are racing and even then I'm not sure it would be a good idea.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

T


vikb said:


> Please don't spread such heresy on this forum Mike!
> 
> In all seriousness I love how the Knards roll. Pavement, hardpacked dirt/gravel, loose dirt/gravel, chunk rocks. mud/snow, etc...
> 
> ...


I agree, but if it helps with clearance it might have worked.

I ran 2.3 Niccotines all winter. We have ice here, and since Surly can't get the Dirt Wizard out I won't hold my breath for them to release the Ice Wizard.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bmike said:


> T
> 
> I ran 2.3 Niccotines all winter. We have ice here, and since Surly can't get the Dirt Wizard out I won't hold my breath for them to release the Ice Wizard.


That makes sense. If an Ice Wizard ever does hit the shelves it will be a 45N product.

We've got 7 months of spring and 5 months of summer where I live so studded tires rarely cross my mind.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

vikb said:


> That makes sense. If an Ice Wizard ever does hit the shelves it will be a 45N product.
> 
> We've got 7 months of spring and 5 months of summer where I live so studded tires rarely cross my mind.


Yeah, count me jealous.
We have 9 months of winter and 3 months of terrible skiiing...

IMG_4083 by mbeganyi, on Flickr

P.S. - If you ever make it to Pemberton... check out the new market pavilion... I know the guy who designed it...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bmike said:


> P.S. - If you ever make it to Pemberton... check out the new market pavilion... I know the guy who designed it...


I'll be stopping in Pemberton on my way to the Chilcotins. I'll check it out and take a picture there with my Krampus to prove it. :thumbsup:


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## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

Is anyone running a 30t front chain ring and 42t rear? Any tire rubs?


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

yes, no about 4 mm chain to tire clearance. 
see http://forums.mtbr.com/surly/krampus-42t-clog-899386.html


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

I have ran that combo with wolftooth ring, and needed an extra spacer in the crank bb.


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## sanjuanswan (Aug 10, 2008)

I have a 28x42 with no tire rub, but I'm using 35mm rims.


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## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

renegade44 said:


> I have ran that combo with wolftooth ring, and needed an extra spacer in the crank bb.


Bummer. If you had to guess the cause would it be the front 30t or rear 42 that caused the rub? I assume you're running rabbit holes and knards..


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

I used 20mm rims and the knobs actually caused more problems with my chain than when running a 50 mm rim. The knobs would catch the chain, whereas the sidewall just bumps it a bit. 

Trying to figure out a good chainline without rubbing the tire on a krampus is a difficult task. All of my crank arms (fsa, deore, whirly) fall off the spindle if I add even a single extra 2mm spacer to my bb. Fortunately I've been lucky to always find the end cap bolt on the trail.

running your axle slammed forward helps the tire clear the chain, but I like using the axle spacer because the longer rear end is more stable on fast and bumpy downhills, which can get out of hand with a krampus.

Before I ran the 42, i'd just use the 17t cog as a spacer to move the big 36t cog away from the center of the wheel for better chainline when climbing. 

many krampus owners, such as myself, dish their rear wheel away from the drive side. This also makes for a stronger, stiffer wheel.

The only issue with my current setup is that the climbing gear chainline works fine for going slow, but if you stay in 32f x 42r or 36r and get some speed, the chain will catch the tire and make a lot of racket. I've put over a thousand hard miles on my bike like this, so I'm happy with it, but once in awhile it's annoying.


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## dropperpost (Mar 10, 2015)

I traded my large krampus for a medium with this beige paint job.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

dropperpost said:


> I traded my large krampus for a medium.


How are you feeling about the smaller frame now that you got one?


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## dropperpost (Mar 10, 2015)

vikb said:


> How are you feeling about the smaller frame now that you got one?


like i absolutely made the right decision. the large was definitely too big for me now that i am on the medium. the new color isnt bad either, though i love the sparkly green.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

dropperpost said:


> like i absolutely made the right decision. the large was definitely too big for me now that i am on the medium. the new color isnt bad either, though i love the sparkly green.


Glad to hear that. :thumbsup:

I don't love the tan at first sight, but I have the sneaking suspicion that after a few adventures I would really be digging it with some desert camo Porcelain Rocket bags. 

I love the sparkly green, but it is nice to have something unique.

Enjoy the new sized frame.


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## dropperpost (Mar 10, 2015)

when i switched frames i also switched wheelsets, to these








to make everything i could chris king sour apple. 
kenda nevegal 2.2 rear and maxxis ardent front 2.4
the tread on these tires is almost identical. krampus rides great as a normal 29er


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

Since I was the other half of the trade with dropperpost i figured I would post up some shots of his large frame built up and already blasting around Texas.

I'm glad he is happy with my medium frame because I am very happy with the large.

Here it is on the trail after a fresh powder coat job:
image by tim_w_sage, on Flickr


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

tim_w_sage said:


> Since I was the other half of the trade with dropperpost i figured I would post up some shots of his large frame built up and already blasting around Texas.
> 
> I'm glad he is happy with my medium frame because I am very happy with the large.
> 
> ...


Nice colour. Glad the trade worked out.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

edge said:


> Bummer. If you had to guess the cause would it be the front 30t or rear 42 that caused the rub? I assume you're running rabbit holes and knards..


It's the 30t chainring, because it has extra spacers built in to allow the chain to clear the crank arms, which puts the chainline in further.

I have no issues with a 34t chainring and 42t rear.


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## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

renegade44 said:


> It's the 30t chainring, because it has extra spacers built in to allow the chain to clear the crank arms, which puts the chainline in further.
> 
> I have no issues with a 34t chainring and 42t rear.


Thanks for the reply. You saved me some wasted time.. Would a 32t require spacers like the 30t?

I am running knards.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

I don't know why you would have chain rub with a 30t ring. I have over 4 mm clearance with the oneup products. 32t would be fine as well.


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## DanLees (Sep 2, 2004)

All the 30T chainrings on 104BCD cranks, that I have seen, have built in threads and a spacer that pushes everything inboard by about 3mm or so. This is so the teeth clear the chain. This enough to give a bit of rub with some rim/tyre combos. I got a bit of sidewall rub with a Dually/Chronicle.

With a 32T ring without the spacer, everything is rub free and groovy. Though ever so slightly harder work in the lowest gear.


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

I one-upped my Krampus - 32/42 - and I also built up some new wheels, Jungle Foxes with Chupacabra tires. Definitely a bit more volume than Rabbit Holes and Knards. If I used the chainring spacers One Up includes with 32 ring, I'd get a small amount of rub. So I just left them out for now, gives me a little more clearance (still pretty tight).


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## aybee (Feb 2, 2014)

New shoes! Amazing how light these rubbers are compared to the stock 27tpi knards. The weight feels the same as with my 2.4 folding ardents. Tried going tubeless with only 2 wraps of gorilla tape and no split tube and I can't get the bead to seat with a floor pump. Duallies or scrapers might be the ticket. I have used duallies before, but any feedback on the scrapers?


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Very nice aybee


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## BlueSteel (Apr 18, 2005)

I'm 5'11.5" with a 32.5 inseam, and ride a medium. I'm running it SingleSpeed and ride trails 100% of the time. Bar width is 720 with an 85mm stem at the moment, and a thomson setback post.


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## rocky.mountain (Jul 9, 2009)

This is my new custom Krampus 'murdered out' as the kids would say nowadays, with a bit of dust/ dirt on it. I had a stock version of the original krampus. Loved the bike, but felt like it could be much more fun if was lighter, and set up a bit more aggressive. I set about collecting parts over a year or so when I found them on sale for what I call a budget high end build. Shimano xt drivetrain, slx brakes, sram x1 crank with stock 32 tooth, thru axle DT 350's laced to hugo's, thomson stem and seatpost. The whiskey fork looks amazing with the matt/ flat black of the stock krampus ops.

sizing note: I am 6'3" and had an xl with my original krampus. For this build I went with a Large and a 110mm stem. The Xl fit fine for more of a touring style of bike, but with the longer stem the effective top tube between the L and XL is about 5 mm so basically nothing. In the singletrack, this thing rips compared to original krampus.

rim notes: I posted this on another thread, but I dented my hugo on the very first ride doing nothing aggressive, with about 18lbs of pressure, which is high for me. Stans warranty department was great and are mailing me a new rim no questions asked, and they said this rim will be second generation with more material and slightly heavier. Ill give an update how that rim goes.


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

aybee said:


> View attachment 990648
> 
> 
> New shoes! Amazing how light these rubbers are compared to the stock 27tpi knards. The weight feels the same as with my 2.4 folding ardents. Tried going tubeless with only 2 wraps of gorilla tape and no split tube and I can't get the bead to seat with a floor pump. Duallies or scrapers might be the ticket. I have used duallies before, but any feedback on the scrapers?


Gorgeous bike! It is cool to see what you guys running rabbit holes do with the rim tape to color match things.


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## Enoch (Jun 12, 2004)

rocky.mountain said:


> rim notes: I posted this on another thread, but I dented my hugo on the very first ride doing nothing aggressive, with about 18lbs of pressure, which is high for me. Stans warranty department was great and are mailing me a new rim no questions asked, and they said this rim will be second generation with more material and slightly heavier. Ill give an update how that rim goes.


THey did a warranty on mine, the new rims is definately different. Mine weighed in about 120 grams heavier which was fine with me. A slightly different shape on top also. I have not built it up yet.

Thanks to Stans for the good customer service


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Enoch said:


> THey did a warranty on mine, the new rims is definately different. Mine weighed in about 120 grams heavier which was fine with me. A slightly different shape on top also. I have not built it up yet.
> 
> Thanks to Stans for the good customer service


Post a photo if you get a chance. Thanks


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

aybee said:


> View attachment 990648
> 
> 
> New shoes! Amazing how light these rubbers are compared to the stock 27tpi knards. The weight feels the same as with my 2.4 folding ardents. Tried going tubeless with only 2 wraps of gorilla tape and no split tube and I can't get the bead to seat with a floor pump. Duallies or scrapers might be the ticket. I have used duallies before, but any feedback on the scrapers?


Beautiful build! I was able to set up Chupacabras tubeless with the same setup you have. I just used a compressor to set the bead the first time. I have ridden 200+ miles with no issues.


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## eagle32nd (May 30, 2015)

Long-time lurker, first-time poster. I had been looking for a winter / bad-weather / single-track bike for a while. I spent a lot of time in the Fat Bike section, but couldn't pull the trigger. We went to visit our son in Scottsdale mid-May and the first thing he did was take me to Rage Cycles. There I saw a Surly Krampus Ops...and it was in my size. I had ridden a Krampus last winter (a co-worker owns one), and had really liked it. We went back the next day and I bought it. They shipped it to Iowa (I actually saved money because I didn't have to pay sales tax in Arizona), I did a bit of assembly and off I went. The photo is from last week...my first single-track ride ever (7.1 miles), but certainly not my last.

The bike needs a bit of tweaking, but it's a blast to ride.

And Rage Cycles, if you're in the Phoenix area (or even if you're not), is fantastic! I worked with Peter, but all the guys are super.


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## forgiven_nick (Nov 7, 2006)

A Surly Krampus review and some thoughts on the 29plus platform philosophy:


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## Bighec (Apr 1, 2009)

My boo.


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## Tswierkocki (Jun 15, 2015)

Hi Everyone,

I started building up a Krampus and ran into some issues with my Hugo wheels. I ended up sending back the wheelset and bought all the parts to build up a set of Dually wheels. The bike has less then two hours on it but I thinking I might just stick with my current 29er at this point due to lacking of time with kids, work, etc. If anyone is looking for a like new medium Krampus please let me know by email at [email protected].

I have a green medium frame, unused stock fork, a used carbon White Brothers fork that nicely fits the 3" Knard, Cane Creek headset, tuggnut, XT bottom bracket, like new Knard tires with the folding Kevlar bead, new Dually wheel set with lightly used XTR front hub and new XT rear hub.

Thanks,
Tom


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Who has one SS that has a gear combo that will let the chainstay length be slammed? I'm getting ready to build another one, my last Krampus I ran 32x21 and seems like it was about a 1/4-3/8" or so back. Curious if 32x20 or 32x22 would tuck it all the way in?


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

nitrousjunky said:


> Who has one SS that has a gear combo that will let the chainstay length be slammed? I'm getting ready to build another one, my last Krampus I ran 32x21 and seems like it was about a 1/4-3/8" or so back. Curious if 32x20 or 32x22 would tuck it all the way in?


I ran a 30x19 on mine last winter and had them damn near slammed forward.


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

32 x 19 on a large is really far forward. 32 x 20 was slammed. Worried about riding in any mud type of slammed.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Had a Krampus over for a short visit. Hit some dirt, did a lot of close inspection and comparison to my ECR. They seem to be quite similar. The two had vastly different stem/bar but each fit the style of riding/rider. 

I sort of think I ride a bit like an old man. Maybe influenced by the hugely tall frames I rode as a kid. I grew into it. 

Either way I'm quite sure a single speed Krampus is next in line.


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## BlueSteel (Apr 18, 2005)

*Krampus SS*



Matterhorn said:


> Either way I'm quite sure a single speed Krampus is next in line.


I love my Krampus as a single speed! Still wearing regular 29er shoes, but will dress up with plus sized stuff in the near future.


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

Anybody know the bike computer calibration number for 29+ wheels? I'm running Chupacabras, wanting to install a Cateye Wireless.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2015)

the other Anne said:


> Anybody know the bike computer calibration number for 29+ wheels? I'm running Chupacabras, wanting to install a Cateye Wireless.


 That number varies so much from rider to rider (based on weight and tire pressure) you're probably better off measuring and adjusting. Sitting on the bike (in riding position) with your stem lined up with a rock/chalkmark/crack in the pavement/etc roll through one revolution and convert that to milimeters (assuming you measured in inches). That will get you close. Want a better number? Find a trail with good mile markers (or highway) or ride with someone who uses a GPS. The actual distance divided by the stated distance times the measurement you're using equals the measurement you want. It's a little work, but I don't need a smart anything telling me how far GPS says I rode and I like to keep it simple(ish).


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2015)

nitrousjunky said:


> Who has one SS that has a gear combo that will let the chainstay length be slammed? I'm getting ready to build another one, my last Krampus I ran 32x21 and seems like it was about a 1/4-3/8" or so back. Curious if 32x20 or 32x22 would tuck it all the way in?


 Have you thought about running a half-link KMC Single Speed Half Link | KMC


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## the other Anne (Feb 14, 2014)

I'm going to ride the Great Divide, and I want a bike computer as a backup to the GPS. I need accuracy because otherwise I can't follow the map directions, which are based on mileage.


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

Forster said:


> Have you thought about running a half-link KMC Single Speed Half Link | KMC


I have never had a half link last more than a ride or two. A full half link chain could be an option.


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

the other Anne said:


> I'm going to ride the Great Divide, and I want a bike computer as a backup to the GPS. I need accuracy because otherwise I can't follow the map directions, which are based on mileage.


Get a tape measure and wrap it around the tire. That measurement in millimeters should do.


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## Slash5 (Nov 27, 2011)

the other Anne said:


> I'm going to ride the Great Divide, and I want a bike computer as a backup to the GPS. I need accuracy because otherwise I can't follow the map directions, which are based on mileage.


Chalk mark on tire and pavement then roll forward until chalk mark is on the bottom, mark again, then measure. You can do 2 revolutions/2 for more accuracy. Then double check against mileage markers.


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

Slash5 said:


> Chalk mark on tire and pavement then roll forward until chalk mark is on the bottom, mark again, then measure. You can do 2 revolutions/2 for more accuracy. Then double check against mileage markers.


And do it with tires at the pressures you'll use with your riding weight on the bike. 2 revolutions divided by 2 is a good idea, and you'll get even more accurate if you do more than that.


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## mcim29 (Oct 18, 2009)

Hello Friends,

Great looking whips here. I've been thinking about getting rid of my current 29er frame and possibly purchasing a 29er+ frame. I've been looking at quite a few different ones, Stache, Krampus and Ros9+. The thing I want to do is swap all my regular parts including my 29er wheels to the new rig and get 29er + wheels built up so I can just swap them out whenever I feel like it. Any thoughts and info from you all would be great.


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## mcim29 (Oct 18, 2009)

the KING said:


> My new Krampus weight 10,5 kg


What size tires you have on?


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## accutrax (Mar 22, 2008)

trek stache has the new boost standard , so your current wheels won`t fit,
krampus and ros9+ should be fine for swapping the 29" wheelset


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## mgftp (Jun 28, 2015)

Really debating getting a Surly Krampus, although it's much more than I had anticipated spending on a bike. Is it that much better than a Motobecane 29+ model? 

I know it's a personal preference thing but I hate the green color, I see many people have a matte black, is that an option or are you guys having them painted?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

mgftp said:


> I know it's a personal preference thing but I hate the green color, I see many people have a matte black, is that an option or are you guys having them painted?


The new version comes in black with swappable MDS dropouts. The original is available in green while supplies last.

Black Krampus ----> Krampus Ops | Bikes | Surly Bikes

The Krampus is a superb bike. Surly nailed it which is why it has such an enthusiastic following. I have no idea how the BD 29+ rides. You'll have to compare geo charts and then decide if you want to save the $$ bad enough to take a chance. Personally every time I start thinking about a different 29+ [had my Krampus 3 seasons now] I conclude I don't want to spend a bunch of $$ and end up with a bike that doesn't ride so great.


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## mikeetheviking (Jan 27, 2015)

So I have built up my new Krampus frame swapping everything over from my Karate Monkey. I have had a chance to go out and ride quite a bit this past month and would like to share my thoughts on My Krampus and 29+ in general. All i can say is that I Love it. It is fast on concrete, fast in the dirt, fast in sand. It's comfortable! It has **** tons of ground clearance. I'm loving this bike. Currently running a dually up front and I have 120 maxxis chonicles set up tubeless (which are the **** by the way) I have ridden over **** tons of cactuses bushwacking here in central texas and no flats set up tubless with orange seal (orange seal is the **** by the way) I'm also using a thud buster. I may try riding it without it to see how my arse feels. So far i'm stoke out of my mind with this rig!


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## mikeetheviking (Jan 27, 2015)

*here's my bushwhacker*


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## mgftp (Jun 28, 2015)

After many hours of research, and ruling out the new Trek 29+s because of ugly colors, I am learning hard towards the Krampus now, although it's about $1k more than I had originally planned to spend on a new bike :/ 

So that brings me to a question, is there a way to get a deal on this thing? There is only one Surly dealer within 2 hours of me and they say retail pricing is the best they can do. Is there a deal to be had online or somewhere that would save me enough to give up the local shop's assembly and warranty? I like to shop local and support these guys when I can but if I can save hundreds somewhere when I've already broken budget.... Thanks.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

mgftp said:


> After many hours of research, and ruling out the new Trek 29+s because of ugly colors, I am learning hard towards the Krampus now, although it's about $1k more than I had originally planned to spend on a new bike :/
> 
> So that brings me to a question, is there a way to get a deal on this thing? There is only one Surly dealer within 2 hours of me and they say retail pricing is the best they can do. Is there a deal to be had online or somewhere that would save me enough to give up the local shop's assembly and warranty? I like to shop local and support these guys when I can but if I can save hundreds somewhere when I've already broken budget.... Thanks.


You're probably not going to find a deal on the Krampus unless you find a last year's model.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

You can't buy Surly complete bikes mailorder. So you are limited to used, buying a frame/fork and building it up or LBS you can drive to.

You could try calling all the Surly dealers within driveable distance to see who will offer the best price.

If you are willing to shop around you could probably build a Krampus from frame/fork for less than MSRP or you could spend the same $$ and get better parts, but it will require a bunch of your time to find sales.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

You can powder coat a Surly for ~$100 if you live some place that's a reasonable size. That way you can get a green one cheaper and turn it any colour you like.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

I like the green. I dont like the Surly logo. But so what.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

drummerdavid said:


> I like the green. I dont like the Surly logo. But so what.


decals come off in 5 mins and the headbadge peels off as well.

$20 and you can have custom decals made to your liking.


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## mgftp (Jun 28, 2015)

Thanks guys, might just order from the local bike shop tomorrow then if nothing comes up before then. Hate the price but really excited for the bike, I think it'll be well worth the extra money over some other things I was considering early on.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

drummerdavid said:


> I like the green. I dont like the Surly logo. But so what.


 Ridden properly, it should be dust/mud covered.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Forster said:


> Ridden properly, it should be dust/mud covered.


agreed. although i add frame bags to the mud mix. 

Krampus Frame Bag by Mike, on Flickr

Rohloff and drivetrain by Mike, on Flickr


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## Steel29er (Jul 1, 2008)

Made the jump into the 29+ pool, very happy with the first ride on the Krampus.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

bmike said:


> agreed. although i add frame bags to the mud mix.
> 
> Krampus Frame Bag by Mike, on Flickr
> 
> Rohloff and drivetrain by Mike, on Flickr


now that is a properly dirty bike!


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

*Chainring for OD crank*

H-spam
Is this the chainring you wanted for the Moonie? Not sure it relates to the Krampus but...

Oh, and I still want a Krampus SS. Nobody giving one away yet? You know they don't have Boost spacing and due to their weight they are in fact unrideable. Send me your XL frame and I'll dispose of it for you.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=71508&category=649


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

Matterhorn said:


> H-spam
> Is this the chainring you wanted for the Moonie? Not sure it relates to the Krampus but...
> 
> Oh, and I still want a Krampus SS. Nobody giving one away yet? You know they don't have Boost spacing and due to their weight they are in fact unrideable. Send me your XL frame and I'll dispose of it for you.
> ...


i suppose in this case it does relate to the krampus since i want to upgrade to the shimano xt 11 speed cassette and rear derailleur on the krampus and then i can get one of those wolf tooth narrow/wide 28 tooth chainrings for the moony and move the sram cassette and the expanded range stuff onto the moony and run a 1x10 for trail duty and the 2x10 for touring/bikepacking...then i can take the xt cassette and the slx rear derailleur and either get another wheel built up on a blunt35 and an xt rear hub i have spare and use that for either the karate monkey or the ogre...

yup,i need to single speed the krampus,i think i have a spare 10 speed chain laying around i could cut down and just use my spacer kit,have to see if those surly cogs can take a 10 speed chain though


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## Idontbounceanymore (Jul 9, 2015)

Hi all, I'm a newbie, first post after reading all 128 pages about the krampus!
I've just got myself an xl frame set (wanted one since they first came out)
40th birthday was just the excuse!
Im also sorted for wheels and tyres (hope,Hugo,chronicle)
It's what I do next that I could do with advice/recommendations on if you would please?
Anything at all to help would be great, there has got yo be some little gems given all the krampus riding you've all done.
I'd like to go 1x10. 
crank wise, zee or slx? Or should I be considering something else? 
Handle bars are a personel preference thing, but I see people recommending high bend bars (salsa bend 2, jones etc) and others saying straight and flat works well krampus'd.
Brakes, I'm pretty sure I'm going slx hydraulic as they work so well on my other bike.
then just finishing gear, but that will do, I'll see how this goes down first!
Thanks advance, and apologies if I've done something wrong.


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## crankpuller (Feb 27, 2004)

I went full xt 1x9 speed with a 30t narrow wide up front.
Wide-ish bars 760mm and if you are running rigid some spongy grips like oury.

If you get your hands on a used fox 32 for a decent price (going for 200 used) it transforms the ride substantially. 
Would need a new bottom headset cup for that.

Enjoy the building!


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Idontbounceanymore said:


> Hi all, I'm a newbie, first post after reading all 128 pages about the krampus!
> I've just got myself an xl frame set (wanted one since they first came out)
> 40th birthday was just the excuse!
> Im also sorted for wheels and tyres (hope,Hugo,chronicle)
> ...


I would suggest a crank with a splined interface so you can use a direct mount chainring. That way you won't be limited to a 32t or larger chainring, and there are lots of options out there these days for narrow wide direct mount rings. Race Face would be my first choice right now, followed by SRAM.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bikeny said:


> I would suggest a crank with a splined interface so you can use a direct mount chainring. That way you won't be limited to a 32t or larger chainring, and there are lots of options out there these days for narrow wide direct mount rings. Race Face would be my first choice right now, followed by SRAM.


Yup. I won't be buying any 104 BCD cranks anymore. Now I just have to wear out the ones I have!


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

X9 FTW. Cheap reliable and only a few grams heavier than it's much more expensive brethren. 

I have read somewhere that one can't run a chainring smaller than 30t without tire rub using a 1x10 with a 42t system can anyone confirm this?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

bikeny said:


> I would suggest a crank with a splined interface so you can use a direct mount chainring. That way you won't be limited to a 32t or larger chainring, and there are lots of options out there these days for narrow wide direct mount rings. Race Face would be my first choice right now, followed by SRAM.


WolfTooth makes a 30t N/W for 104bcd.....


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

SeaBass_ said:


> WolfTooth makes a 30t N/W for 104bcd.....


So does RaceFace


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## PretendGentleman (May 24, 2011)

SeaBass_ said:


> WolfTooth makes a 30t N/W for 104bcd.....


It is set inboard so the chain doesn't hit the spider. This makes it more likely to rub your chain by a small amount.

My 32t raceface narrow-wide has worn quite quickly. Much more quickly than a cheapo deore 32t.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

I used one on my 1x10 Krampy with an 11-36 and had zero issues with rub.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

SeaBass_ said:


> I used one on my 1x10 Krampy with an 11-36 and had zero issues with rub.


Seabass have you tried it with a 42t cog? I don't know why it would matter but thats what I heard somewhere...


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

I did not but the only issue I would foresee with the 42t would not be rub but the Rear Derailleurs ability to accommodate it.


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## dcalabrese22 (Jul 29, 2013)

geraldooka said:


> Seabass have you tried it with a 42t cog? I don't know why it would matter but thats what I heard somewhere...


I ran my Krampus 1x10 with a 40t cog with no chain rub.


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

dcalabrese22 said:


> I ran my Krampus 1x10 with a 40t cog with no chain rub.


A bigger cog doesn't change your chainline so there's no reason it should be a problem.


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## forgiven_nick (Nov 7, 2006)

forgiven_nick said:


> A Surly Krampus review and some thoughts on the 29plus platform philosophy:


I can't believe how popular this video is. 5,000 plus views already!


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

After some discussion, and wondering why I generally feel far crappier at riding our typical NE roots and rocks, I pulled my Krampus apart to mount up a borrowed set of wheels. The rear is SS, and I mounted some SpecialEd Ground Control and Purgatory tires... a local shop friend suggested that the Rohloff I have takes forever to engage as it comes around in techy terrain... and he didn't like that once he tried mine (he's used to i9 hubs...)

Itty Bitty Tires by Mike, on Flickr

So to test this out I borrowed a set of Stans wheels with King hubs, pulled the Rohloff wheel and Dyno wheel off the Krampus. Left the shifter on so I can switch back and forth for (somewhat) easier testing of the theory (I also have a geared rear wheel I can run 1x10 if I want to test that to, on an XT hub).

Eye opening and enlightening.
Here's the numbers I pulled while taking the bike apart... and note, this didn't start off as an exercise in weight reduction... this started off as curiosity over hub engagement.

My bikepacking Krampus build:
39.6 pounds

It's heavy. Its a pig. 
I knew this. I never knew how heavy.

This includes:
Frame bag with Lezyne pump and 2.5" downhill 29r tube
Jerry can which holds my toolkit (pretty much camping / expedition ready) 
Split tube tubeless front wheel built with a Rabbit Hole rim and a 27tpi knard and a Shimano dynohub, 180 rotor, BB7 brake
Split tube tubeless rear wheel built with a Rabbit Hole rim and a 27tpi knard on a Rohloff Speedhub, 180 rotor, BB7 brake
Stock build stem (no name part)
Surly Krampus fork aftermarket with anything cage bosses and 100000000 braze ons
Jones loop bars
Ritchey Comp something seatpost
WTB Silverado saddle
Exposure Redeye dyno tail light
Exposure mount for dyno headlight 
Wires for lights
Little bell
ESI Grips
Rohloff shifter pod and cables

Yeah. That's heavy.

With the SS wheels:
30.8 pounds

I dropped 8.8 pounds by swapping wheels.

Slightly smaller rotor on the back, and I left the Rohloff shifter pod and cables on. Tires are Specialized Purgatory front and Ground Control rear, 2.3.

Then I started weighing the pieces...
Original front wheel - 7.2 pounds!
Rohloff rear wheel - 10 pounds! 
That is 17.2 pounds rolling around.

And for giggles my toolkit in a Revelate Jerry Can (which needs only a few minor things tossed in for camping / bikepacking trips) - it weighs 1.8 pounds.

Not sure what to do with the info... will run SS for a bit and see how I like the faster engagement of the hubs. Might go back to 1x10 but I'd need to build up another wheel or rebuild the Rohloff. Might move the Rohloff to the Pugs and swap parts around...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

The Rohloff is heavy and so are any real 29+ tires.

I've got about 8yrs of Rohloff use and other IGHs under my belt. Riding alone and with a wide variety of other folks. When I am moving around my unloaded bike at home I definitely notice the weight of the IGH. However, out on tour I don't. My bike with camping gear is heavy even with lighter weight items and I am no faster or slower than I'd expect to be relative to my trip partners.

If conditions get more challenging with heavy dust or mud the Rohloff definitely makes my life easier since it shift/pedals as well coated in mud as it does sparkling clean. It also helps during crappy HAB section since I don't have to spend mental energy protecting my low hanging dérailleur.

I've never been one to notice POE changes not sure why. I ride very slow techy terrain where that should matter and I have a variety of hubs with different POE, but that aspect of my bikes never affects me in a way I can appreciate as a significant difference.

I'm [slowly] building up a new rear wheel for my Krampus with a Hope hub that I'll run as 1x or SS. That way between the front wheel [Hope + Rabbit Hole] and two rear wheels [Rohloff or Hope + Rabbit Hole] I'll have 3 different configurations I can use.

I'm curious if I'll notice any practical difference due to the reduced IGH vs. 1x/SS weight.

I'm also curious if I'll regret not having the IGH when stuff gets messy.

On the tire end of things I am sold on 29+ rubber for bikepacking. They just feel so much better than any 29er tire I've used I can't imagine going back. Similarly to my [non-scientific] observations with the Rohloff when I've been riding with other folks on a variety of different wheel/tire sizes I have not seen any noticeable drawback to the heavier 29+ rubber.

If you aren't feeling satisfied with your Krampus you are doing the right thing by experimenting with other options. It can't hurt to get some fresh insights into your bike.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

vikb said:


> The Rohloff is heavy and so are any real 29+ tires.
> 
> I've got about 8yrs of Rohloff use and other IGHs under my belt. Riding alone and with a wide variety of other folks. When I am moving around my unloaded bike at home I definitely notice the weight of the IGH. However, out on tour I don't. My bike with camping gear is heavy even with lighter weight items and I am no faster or slower than I'd expect to be relative to my trip partners.
> 
> ...


Vik - I love this bike... the history here goes like this:

Picked up Krampus early fall last year, rode it in the local woods and on 1 overnight as a 1x10. Happy. Happy. Even felt super confident on my local trails - I started riding stuff that I normally am pretty cautious on...

Found a good price on the Rohloff, just as winter was setting in. Put the Rohloff on... and put the studs on about the same time. My riding went from woods and mixed terrain to pretty much forest roads and roads and some bike path snow and ice riding... I didn't really notice a difference in feel of the engagement.

Then come this spring, started riding trails more, noticed something was off. Maybe its me. I'm not a strong MTB / techy rider... but I want to get better. I noticed I would stall out more when trying to ratchet through things, or even stall out if I paused on top of a log or switchback to assess the trail and reposition the front wheel. That didn't seem to happen in 1x10 mode with the stock build. It wasn't until a local shop guy borrowed my bike to try out the Rohloff as he wants to build a 29+ trail / adventure bike. He thought he'd go all in on the Rohloff... but has scratched that because the Rohloff is like 22d or more to get engaged (we played with my bike and another shop bike in the stand watching the wheels turn and listening for the clicks...). He's used to i9 hubs and those have 3d before they engage... I won't have anything that tight... but I did start paying attention in the woods and I think it may be part of my problem losing confidence in techy terrain.

And like I said... the weight isn't that big a deal to me overall - I do want a lighter trail bike... but if I want that I'll need to swap wheels or something. No getting around 29+ weights. I can tell you I will miss the big tires on my testing of the hub engagement. I'm not sure how I'll handle that when I come to analyze the bike... but I'll figure it out. Maybe go 29+ front and just roll on the rear SS for awhile.

So, perhaps I go SS for the local trail centers and my local woods (thinking about having an aluminum piece machined to bolt my Rohloff shifter to when I swap wheels) and use the Rohloff for backpacking / camping / touring / gravel grinding / etc.

Or its in my head and I need more saddle time and I need to gain confidence that I can ride in the techy stuff and I just need to get used to the bike...

But its not about weight. I'd love to drop some # from the build, but I'm not going to spend the $$ now on carbon rims, or a new frame, etc.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

bmike said:


> Vik - I love this bike... the history here goes like this:
> 
> Picked up Krampus early fall last year, rode it in the local woods and on 1 overnight as a 1x10. Happy. Happy. Even felt super confident on my local trails - I started riding stuff that I normally am pretty cautious on...
> 
> ...


So wait, let me get this straight, your bike got a bunch lighter when you removed the 29+ wheels/tires and the Rohloff rear hub and swapped them for some singlespeed 29er wheels???

The way I see it, that's not a fair comparison. If you swapped in a 2x10 drivetrain on 29+ wheels, that would be more comparable. That setup would certainly be lighter than the Rohloff setup, but not by 8 something lbs.

I guess you need to look at what you are trying to achieve. It sounds like the Rohloff build is something you could ride for weeks at a time on dirt roads and trails across South America without worrying about much. It's built to be reliable and low maintenance. It's not built to be nimble on NE techy singletrack. If that was the goal, you would have built it up differently.

I say you do this: Keep the Rohloff on the Krampus for your bikepacking/adventure bike. You mentioned a Pugs as well, maybe set that up as the 3 season trail bike with 29+ or 27.5+ wheels with an eye on weight savings.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

bikeny said:


> So wait, let me get this straight, your bike got a bunch lighter when you removed the 29+ wheels/tires and the Rohloff rear hub and swapped them for some singlespeed 29er wheels???
> 
> The way I see it, that's not a fair comparison. If you swapped in a 2x10 drivetrain on 29+ wheels, that would be more comparable. That setup would certainly be lighter than the Rohloff setup, but not by 8 something lbs.
> 
> ...


It's not about the weight. I discovered that in the process of testing out some different hubs. The bike has always been heavy. I think naked in the shop with the heavy Surly tubes in it was 34 pounds. I knew it was going to lose a lot of weight. The amount surprised me.

Yes, I got the Rohloff as a do all end all solution. It just doesn't seem suited to the rocky roots that I've been riding. Not because it's got a wide gear range or is heavy - but because it doesn't engage as quickly as even an XT hub on the original build.

I didn't know this going in. Had read various things about it but never really thought about what goes on inside a normal hub when riding NE single track.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Verdict is starting to roll in... Rohloff lack of quick engagement definitely is playing a role in my lack of confidence, general suckiness to my already sucky abilities in the techy bits.

SS Krampus and a quick lunch ride on the local rocks and roots after some rain started to bear that out. I did miss the chubby tires... and the BB dropped a bit so there were a few places I was worried about pedal strike (avoided it... thankfully) - so those will be coming back. Have to do some more riding of the 2 setups.

SS Krampus Lunch Ride by Mike, on Flickr

Being able to position the pedals and ratchet or even just sit tight and dodge rocks / roots and then get power to the pedals makes a difference.

SS Krampus Lunch Ride by Mike, on Flickr

SS Krampus Lunch Ride by Mike, on Flickr


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I'm not surprised by your findings. I have no idea what the actual spec is for the degrees of engagement on the Rohloff (it might even be different in different gears), but it's not quick. I agree those kind of trails are better ridden on a quicker engaging hub. If you can handle riding SS, go for it, but I would miss the cush and traction of the plus size tires. 

I have settled on 29+ & Rohloff for bikepacking/adventure riding and 27.5+ & 1x10 for the shorter techy stuff.

Enjoy the riding (I mean 'testing'), looks like some fun trails. BTW, where in VT are you riding?


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

bikeny said:


> I'm not surprised by your findings. I have no idea what the actual spec is for the degrees of engagement on the Rohloff (it might even be different in different gears), but it's not quick. I agree those kind of trails are better ridden on a quicker engaging hub. If you can handle riding SS, go for it, but I would miss the cush and traction of the plus size tires.
> 
> I have settled on 29+ & Rohloff for bikepacking/adventure riding and 27.5+ & 1x10 for the shorter techy stuff.
> 
> Enjoy the riding (I mean 'testing'), looks like some fun trails. BTW, where in VT are you riding?


Burlington. Those trails are 5 minute ride from the house... short punchy loops behind the high school. I can tie that with another park, and then some mellow single track near the river.

If I ride the Pugs (and it stops raining and the lake goes down) I can link up those trails, mellow single track, beach and bike path... enough for an hour or more depending on what loops I ride. Can't complain.

Krampus will go to Catamount this weekend for a longer ride.
I rode a Soma Juice for a long while before I sold it to finance my Fargo. The Fargo was fun, but harder to ride on those trails... hence the move to the Krampus.

Yeah, I've got these wheels on loan for awhile. And I have another set of 1x10 wheels I can mount up. I think I might setup some spare brake levers and another bar so that I can (more) easily swap between SS and Rohloff. Just need another 180 rotor to match the Rohloff and some grips. Might be a good fun way to have 2 bikes in 1.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

An old MTBR thread about Rohloff POE: http://forums.mtbr.com/internal-gear-hubs/internal-hub-engagement-rohloff-577292.html


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

thats interesting about the rohloff and poe,i had always considered one for the moonlander because i hated the hub engagement on the original xt hub...but recently i kinda finally figured the moonlander out and the hub isnt really bugging me anymore...

but the krampus,i love my hope/rabbit hole rear wheel,i do feel it helps in the techy bits...at least theres no distracting ker-thunk as the hub engages during panic pedaling...and i admit,the bike nerd in me loves the ratchet sound of the hub...


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## spinsir (Mar 27, 2006)

mcim29 said:


> Hello Friends,
> 
> Great looking whips here. I've been thinking about getting rid of my current 29er frame and possibly purchasing a 29er+ frame. I've been looking at quite a few different ones, Stache, Krampus and Ros9+. The thing I want to do is swap all my regular parts including my 29er wheels to the new rig and get 29er + wheels built up so I can just swap them out whenever I feel like it. Any thoughts and info from you all would be great.


You won't be able to switch parts over to the Stache and the Ros9+ is not as sexy as the Krampus.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bmike said:


> Might be a good fun way to have 2 bikes in 1.


+1 good plan.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Does anyone on here have these dropouts on their Krampus? - Breaking News | Blog | Surly Bikes


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

*Bike packing rig in the works.*









The semester is finally over so I did 25-30 miles at a new (to me) park. Temps close to 100 and lots of thunder but no rain. It was the first time taking the new cockpit and diy bag on real singletrack and I'm all smiles.


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

nitrousjunky said:


> Does anyone on here have these dropouts on their Krampus? - Breaking News | Blog | Surly Bikes


I just received these yesterday for an ICT, probably no help. Surely claims 17.7 chain stays w/ the original thru/direct mount shimano der. With the new chip I measure 18 approx. Running the QR the CS was 18.5. So I think for the shortest CS use the shimano direct mount. If that is your question.

Pedaling


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

rjedoaks said:


> I just received these yesterday for an ICT, probably no help. Surely claims 17.7 chain stays w/ the original thru/direct mount shimano der. With the new chip I measure 18 approx. Running the QR the CS was 18.5. So I think for the shortest CS use the shimano direct mount. If that is your question.
> 
> Pedaling


Yeah that was basically what I was curious about, what the shortest setting with those dropouts were. With only .100" difference the CS length between the 2, your findings would have to be similar to the Krampus with these.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

That's too bad. I was wondering this as well. If I go Krampus I guess it will have to be the green machine... Surly quoted me different numbers but actual measurements are always better. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## rjedoaks (Aug 10, 2009)

I just measured again to be sure. Center of the crank/ center hub 18 1/8 approx. Originally, I never mounted the direct mount Shimano so I don't know about the claimed 17.7. Not a big deal to me, just wanted to clear that up for anyone interested.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Enjoying a skinny Krampus in single speed mode.

Catamount - I was on the SS skinny Krampus. by Mike, on Flickr


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Can you measure the BB height with skinny tires please?


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

vikb said:


> Can you measure the BB height with skinny tires please?


Will do when I get the bike off the car. No issues today on typical NE rocky roots single track. (That photo is from a lovely buffed out section in the pines...)


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

vik, any drawbacks to putting suspension fork on it? trying to decide if i want to, or build separate bike for rougher stuff


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

ELECTRIC_YETI said:


> vik, any drawbacks to putting suspension fork on it? trying to decide if i want to, or build separate bike for rougher stuff


Drawback to suspension fork:

- heavier
- need to use hose clamps to attach cages to fork legs if you want to carry gear there
- additional maintenance and risk of failure
- need to carry shock pump [if you want ability to adjust air pressure]
- changes headtube angle and BB height depending on specific fork[I like this, but could be an issue for some]
- less clearance for mud/debris
- changes cockpit geo [I needed to adjust bar/stem after slacking bike out]

I'm a suspension lover so I am surprised how little benefit I've seen from adding the 130mm fork to Krampus. The big wheels roll so well through rough stuff and you can get that front wheel up so easily it doesn't seem to be as useful as I thought it would be.

I've got a trip coming up with lots of rough steep riding in it and I've used the rigid Krampus on the same trails so it will be a good test. If I am not blow away on this trip I will be putting the rigid fork back on.

I should note I think the Float 34 is working well. It's not a problem with the suspension fork so much as an appreciation of how well the Krampus rides rigid.

I'm using my Krampus mainly for bikepacking, but we carry light gear and charge pretty hard through rough BC terrain so I really thought I'd be stoked by adding a suspension fork to the bike.


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

Don't really do bikepacking yet, but working on building a woods/trail trailer. A lot of my rides are what my wife calls "adventure riding", I just pick a direction and take off exploring. Sometimes that means carrying the bike through choppings or over blowdowns. I use streambeds, washouts old skidder trails etc. gets pretty rough sometimes. Opposite end of continent from you. lots of mud roots rocks... not sure if I want to completely change the Krampus though. Waffling back and forth between stock and suspension with dirt wizards. May just leave it and build 650+ hardtail. Decisions decisions


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## Jcl523 (Mar 14, 2015)

Hey all....I've been lurking for awhile, but I think this is my first post. I read this whole thread a few weeks ago while I was waiting for my Krampus to arrive. I purchased mine to have a "simpler" option to my FS bike when things get muddy....but also just because of the reviews I've read. I have a handful of rides in on mine now.....and I'm thinking about some things. I'm contemplating on a Manitou Magnum or Whisky Carbon fork. I'd like to smooth this thing out just a bit. I ride eastern U.S. single track....lots of roots/rocks. I'm curious as to what other peoples' opinions are between the two.....or should I go another route? 

Thanks in advance!


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

Jcl523 said:


> Hey all....I've been lurking for awhile, but I think this is my first post. I read this whole thread a few weeks ago while I was waiting for my Krampus to arrive. I purchased mine to have a "simpler" option to my FS bike when things get muddy....but also just because of the reviews I've read. I have a handful of rides in on mine now.....and I'm thinking about some things. I'm contemplating on a Manitou Magnum or Whisky Carbon fork. I'd like to smooth this thing out just a bit. I ride eastern U.S. single track....lots of roots/rocks. I'm curious as to what other peoples' opinions are between the two.....or should I go another route?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


been looking at the manitou myself thinking the same thing...we dont have so much in the way of roots,but a double helping of rocks for sure...im inclined to just leave my krampus as a rigid bike because 95% of the time im perfectly happy with the way it rides,im more inclined to just get my self a full squishy bike for those times i want to crush chunder bunnies at the trails,but for just going and wandering on those days when you might be on pavement and dirt roads and maybe grab a bit of singletrack along the way,and see all sort of surface conditions,the krampus is a great bike...


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

vikb said:


> Can you measure the BB height with skinny tires please?


vik:

running the stans rims with 2.3 purgatory up front and 2.3 ground control in the back the rough eyeball measurement is that is 11 1/4" to 11 3/8" to the outer surface of the outboard bearings on the Zee crank to my garage floor.

from my notes, my original krampus measurement with the 3" knard is that its 12 3/8" to the bottom of the BB. 
so i lost an inch. i cleared everything i rode yesterday on the skinny tires and then some (due to the ability to ratchet again over rough terrain).
i did miss the float.
i'm sure i'll miss that 1" somewhere... but haven't bottomed the pedals out yet (175 cranks).

and my pugsley with 3.8 nates on the stock 65mm wide rims is 11 3/8" - which i've ridden the same terrain as the krampus.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

went ahead and converted the krampus to single speed with a surly spacer kit,running a 32/22 now...pretty pokey on the road but it climbs well...about to head out to the trails to try it out...


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

hamsterspam said:


> went ahead and converted the krampus to single speed with a surly spacer kit,running a 32/22 now...pretty pokey on the road but it climbs well...about to head out to the trails to try it out...
> 
> View attachment 1005044


Nice. The more I ride mine SS the more I fall back in love with this bike. Running 34/20 with the 'little' 2.3 wheels in there. Wednesday I pick up some dirt wizard wheels that will setup the same. Gear might be a bit tall with the big wheels - but I'll have to sort that out after riding some.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

yeah,i gotta say the krampus makes an excellent single speed,the 32/22 seems to work out alright for the trails around here,it was a bit frustrating on the road on the way out to the trails but then of course once i got to the single track and started climbing i missed that big ol dinner plate 42 tooth on the back!

i made it through a pretty nasty rock garden with relative ease,the recent monsoon rains have really chewed up the trails but the 29+ tires got me out of some serious trouble yesterday...i took a little off trail jaunt after the rear wheel slid into a trench,and the rock garden had several "oh crap" moments,but those big tires just kept rolling over everything...

and once i got pointed downhill the krampus holds its speed so well it wasnt the normal single speed frustration of topping the gear out,it seemed plenty fast..


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## tim_w_sage (Jun 3, 2011)

Here are a few pics of my Krampus after a rebuild. New powdercoat, carver ti bars, Hugo rims, and a new lefty. I also cut some custom 29+ stickers for the lefty. I still need to get around to a slight trim job on the front brake hose

IMG_4454 by tim_w_sage, on Flickr
IMG_4457 by tim_w_sage, on Flickr
IMG_4459 by tim_w_sage, on Flickr
IMG_4460 by tim_w_sage, on Flickr


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

tim_w_sage said:


> Here are a few pics of my Krampus after a rebuild. New powdercoat, carver ti bars, Hugo rims, and a new lefty. I also cut some custom 29+ stickers for the lefty. I still need to get around to a slight trim job on the front brake hose
> 
> IMG_4454 by tim_w_sage, on Flickr
> IMG_4457 by tim_w_sage, on Flickr
> ...


Tim that is a really nice job! I hope your proud of that, I would be. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Continue to love the SS Krampus.

Catamount by Mike, on Flickr


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

bmike said:


> Continue to love the SS Krampus.
> 
> Catamount by Mike, on Flickr


How are you liking those rims? Did the DWs play well with them?


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

nitrousjunky said:


> How are you liking those rims? Did the DWs play well with them?


mounted up tubeless no trouble. first ride i did a number on the front...(lofted over a root, nailed another one at speed, too low pressure as I was still figuring things out). Held air for almost a week (and several more rides) before we bent it right back at the shop. Solid, and I'm no lightweight.

Better shot of the rim dinger by Mike, on Flickr

Really like this setup. King Hubs, Scraper Rims and Dirt Wizards tubeless. Some stans tape on the rims and valves...
Have a set of Rabbit Hole laced to a Shimano Dyno and Rohloff rear... thats a heavy set that I'll run for bikepacking.


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## dropperpost (Mar 10, 2015)

*recommended air compressor?*

hi, i recently got new wheels built for my krampus but haven't gotten around to converting it to tubeless yet. last time, I used a bike shop's air compressor to seat the bead but I just want my own air compressor so I can do it whenever I want.

Is this a good air compressor to buy? it's a 3 gallon. im interested in it because it is SMALL and my new apartment in SF is SMALL, but would it be enough to seat the bead of the Chronicles??????









is there a go-to air compressor people agree on? or does it even matter? what should I look for when buying one (specifically for the high volume 3" tires?)
here's a pic of my krampus


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

dropperpost said:


> hi, i recently got new wheels built for my krampus but haven't gotten around to converting it to tubeless yet. last time, I used a bike shop's air compressor to seat the bead but I just want my own air compressor so I can do it whenever I want.
> 
> Is this a good air compressor to buy? it's a 3 gallon. im interested in it because it is SMALL and my new apartment in SF is SMALL, but would it be enough to seat the bead of the Chronicles??????
> 
> ...


looks about the size of mine... 
you might want to look at quiet, oil free units for apartment use.


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2015)

As long as you don't actually fire it up on your apartment floor you'll have enough air. Those tend to be pretty noisy and they vibrate the floor like mad.


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## crackerdog (Dec 18, 2011)

Look at California Air compressors. I can't believe how quiet they are. You could have a normal phone conversation right next to one.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

dropperpost said:


> hi, i recently got new wheels built for my krampus but haven't gotten around to converting it to tubeless yet. last time, I used a bike shop's air compressor to seat the bead but I just want my own air compressor so I can do it whenever I want.


I just use CO2 cartridges to seat tubeless tires. Unless you are doing it a whole lot it's hard to see the point of owning a compressor while living in an apartment.

It also teaches you to use the tools you can carry on the trail to deal with a tubeless problem.


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## Steel29er (Jul 1, 2008)

So much fun, love this bike!


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## MHanraha (Aug 2, 2006)

For those of you running Jones Bars did you find that you needed to change stem length?


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

I am running the Jones Bend H bar in 710mm with a 100mm stem. Large frame, and the fit is perfect


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Size small Krampus with 710 mm Jones H Loop and an 80 mm 30 degree stem. Needed to bring the bars up, kind of wish i'd gone with a medium, but I have long arms and legs with a short torso on a zero offset seat post, so my sizing is a little funky (I'm female, but taller than many, so my bike geometry ends up being a little of both).I think the stem is about 2 cm's longer than it would have been with a Mary on One. And since it has a lot of rise, the effective distance is shorter. Had to play with it a lot, and definitely have a big drawer full of stems, even though I sent a lot of them back. It took a couple months to get it right ordering and returning.

I have the standard Odi locking grip length bar grips with squishy Lizard Skins tape. A lot of people use the extra long grips Jones sells, thAt brings your hands closer together, and increases reach. Ergo, longer grips may make a shorter stem necessary unless the more aggressive position is preferred. My odi grips are one of the ergo models. They were pricey, but I really like how solid they are, definitely made for technical riding. Don't have to worry about my hands slipping, or about having the Odi's slip from the bars. And I can ride all dAy on the Lizard Skin wrapped portions if need be. Altogether an expensive set-up even with the aluminum bars, but totally worth it.

i'm considering getting a Jones frame-set eventually and swapping everything out since the small krampus has so little room to carry things and I think the medium wouldn't be quite right. Looks like the ECR would fit better, but I like and am accustomed to fast handling. And this bike has that. But though I'm an experienced cyclist in the drop bar category, this is my first mountain bike, so I'll wait to see how it goes.









Way beyond the scope of the stem question, but I have to say I enjoy the vibe on mb forums a lot more than roadie forums. (Even though I often have no idea what you are talking about with various mechanical what-nots). Not a lot of mountain biking where I live, but seems like a great group of people in general.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Is that a Revelate feed bag on the bars? If not, what kind is it? Also, what size bottle 
(how many ounces) fits inside? Always need more water.


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

I got a 100 mm 0 degree stem for my medium when I swapped to the Jones 710.

I'm very happy with the range that gives me between back and wide, more neutral positions, and forward and tight.


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## bnj33 (Feb 7, 2015)

Hi guys


Currently I ride my Krampus OSP with wheels Velocty Blunt 35then tires Maxxis Chronicle and I'd like to know if there was way to have even more broad and large tires by changing either the wheels or tires see if necessary the two!

I watched the Chupacabra Bontrager, who look more wide and bulky and for rims I'd like to stay on a models in Aluminium, not too heavy (-680gr), which is mountable tubeless acoustical and especially sturdy and reliable for my 105kgs +!

For those who have had the opportunity to test the krampus with wheels type Blunt 35 and also with rims more wide type ZTR Hugo or Surly Rabbit Hole I'd like to have your opinion on the significant differences between two rims more or less wide!

Thanks in advance for your information and experiences!

Sorry for my very random English...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bnj33 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Currently I ride my Krampus OSP with wheels Velocty Blunt 35then tires Maxxis Chronicle and I'd like to know if there was way to have even more broad and large tires by changing either the wheels or tires see if necessary the two!
> 
> ...


If you use wider rims you'll spread out a 29+ tire a little more, but the effect is not huge. If you have a good wheelset you like that's 35mm wide I wouldn't bother spending a lot of $$ on wider rims to get a slightly wider flatter profile tire.

My Krampus is rolling on Rabbit Holes, before that I used narrow Stan's Flow rims that were around ~25mm wide. I didn't like the 25mm rims as much at the 50mm Rabbit Holes.

I'm just in the process of building up some Velocity Blunt 35's for my Krampus. I think that's a great compromise between width and weight while staying with a AL rim.

BTW - The Rabbit Holes have been 100% reliable tubeless for me for 2 seasons.


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## bnj33 (Feb 7, 2015)

I'm rather happy with my current wheels Velocity Blunt35 - Hope - CXRay, the only thing that can be "unpleasant" but it may also be somewhat normal, it's support following the pressure, if the latter and too low I feel that my rear tyre collapsed sideways if you understand what I mean! And so I was wondering if with a wider rim and therefore a more flat tire square and less round this feeling would disappear!

What do you recommend as wheels wider than the Blunt35 (I do not want Rabbit Hole, too heavy) which remains in a reasonable weight range and that is solid (I do 105kgs +).

I've seen the Dually (39mm internal and 675gr) that have a very good reputation, the WTB Scraper (45mm internal and 712gr), the ZTR Hugo (50mm internal and 780gr) or the SunRigle Mulefut 50 (45mm internal and 655gr).

If you have any experiences with the Mulefut 50 I'm interested because their ratio width / weight is interresting but worth therme of solidity and reliability!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bnj33 said:


> What do you recommend as wheels wider than the Blunt35 (I do not want Rabbit Hole, too heavy) which remains in a reasonable weight range and that is solid (I do 105kgs +).
> 
> I've seen the Dually (39mm internal and 675gr) that have a very good reputation, the WTB Scraper (45mm internal and 712gr), the ZTR Hugo (50mm internal and 780gr) or the SunRigle Mulefut 50 (45mm internal and 655gr).


Just so we are clear the Rabbit Hole is ~699g and if you think they are too heavy than Dually's, WTB Scrappers and the Hugo are all off the menu as well.

Light Bicycle makes a carbon rim that's 31.6mm internal and ~450g. They also make a 45mm internal width rim that's ~490g


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## bnj33 (Feb 7, 2015)

Yes for me the Rabbit Hole are too heavy, so actually the ZTR Hugo and the WTB Scraper are also too heavy! For rims I want aluminum I don't want carbon!
So the Dually and the Mulefut find the best! The question that I ask myself this is what rims more wide this will enhance this effect of tire working laterally in support?


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

bnj33 said:


> Yes for me the Rabbit Hole are too heavy, so actually the ZTR Hugo and the WTB Scraper are also too heavy! For rims I want aluminum I don't want carbon!
> So the Dually and the Mulefut find the best! The question that I ask myself this is what rims more wide this will enhance this effect of tire working laterally in support?


scraper, 712g
mulefut, 655g
hugo, 622g
dually,675g

i like my rabbit holes, i prefer the scrapers... tubeless ready to go, no need for split tubes.


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## bnj33 (Feb 7, 2015)

Not the Hugo ZTR are now at 780gr was the first series that was to 622gr.

ZTR Hugo 52 29+ Rim

Actually the Scraper are a bit heavier than the Rabbit Hole but they will be more easily mountable in Tubeless as the Mulefut...

Now the Mulefut have a width-to-weight ratio really interresting!

For my 232lbs I inflates to 17psi back and 13psi front of my Maxxis Chronicle on my Velocity Blunt 35.

In fact I do not know if this happened to some of you but I have my rear tyre that Pearl of the Notubes latex at the level of the flanks while the tyre before Maxxis Chronicle is also perfectly quenches!


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## Sandman29 (Jan 22, 2009)

mcim29,

All three (Stache,Krampus and ROS9+) are great bikes, and any of them would be a great decision. You probably don't have to worry about your old 29er because you probably won't have the desire to ride it after you get your 29+.

I have the ROS9+ and the Stache 5 (ROS9+ if Florida and Stache 5 in Illinois), both are fun, both shift well, and the Aluminum Stache 5 with carbon fork doesn't seem to be a harsher ride than the Steel when you account for the the 3" tires (Although, the Ilinios (Stache 5) trails seem to be less root as the Florida (ROS9+) trails). 

I paid $2550 for the ROS9+ and $1600 for the Stache 5 - You would like either of these bikes, but with being able to buy a Krampus or Stache 5 in the $1600 range and still have a cool fun bike maybe one of those two are the best choice.

I am stilling thinking on converting one of my regular 29ers to a Krampus SS as my regular 29ers get no attention now. And, Krampuses (or Krampi) are cool looking especial as SS.


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## bnj33 (Feb 7, 2015)

I totally agree with you Sandman29, 1 years ago I had a Rocky Mountain Element and a Kona Unit semi rigid, I tasted at the 29'+ amount my Unit in Front 29'+, since I sold the Rocky to buy me Surly Krampus on which I ride for almost 6 months and honestly I have no desire to get back on my Unit both the Krampus (29'+) is awesome!

Incidentally I'm considering even to sell my Unit in the more or less near future to mount me in addition to the Krampus (29'+) a Fat Bike for outputs more "brittle" or I could be any rigid Krampus limit.

One thing is sure is that I will have in the future always a 29'+ in the garage!


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## dropperpost (Mar 10, 2015)

hi. i recently got this medium desert tan Krampus in a trade for my large, which was the original moonlit swamp green color. I have been missing that color, and before i get mine repainted, i thought if anyone is interested here in this color, maybe we could arrange a trade for your moonlit swamp MEDIUM krampus frameset.

otherwise, does anyone know of a bicycle painter in San Francisco who is familiar with bicycle painting and could repaint my Krampus for me?


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

Krampus experts, wondering if you could help me with wheel build information. I just finished building up a Krampus and am planning the new wheel set. I've decided on the LB carbon 50mm rims. My concern is specific to some posts I've read about folks having issues with spokes running into brake callipers particularly the front. I currently have the Krampus set up with Flow rims and fairly standard Sun Ringle hubs and do notice its pretty close (approx. 5mm or less with Deore M615). Has anyone used these rims before? Would getting the offset rim be a solution. Any advice is appreciated.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

bmike said:


> Nice. The more I ride mine SS the more I fall back in love with this bike. Running 34/20 with the 'little' 2.3 wheels in there. Wednesday I pick up some dirt wizard wheels that will setup the same. Gear might be a bit tall with the big wheels - but I'll have to sort that out after riding some.


Also on a SS Krampus. Running 32/19 with 2.4" on the front, and 2.25 on the rear with Blunt p35's. Nice for sea-level and dune climbing. Might invest in an internal hub, one day. But this bike is perfect as a SS fun-buggy.


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## hczeke (Oct 24, 2008)

More pedal strikes with regular 29er tires? Curious. Thanks.


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## capt.crispy (Nov 17, 2006)

Does your wife in Illinois know about your wife in Florida? I think I saw a made for tv movie about you a few years ago. LOL.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

Love this thing.






















Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SpeedyChix (Apr 17, 2005)

Show your Krampus some love


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My Krampus fan boi 3yr review ----> https://vikapproved.wordpress.com/2015/09/27/surly-krampus-3yr-review/


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## unibomber (Oct 17, 2004)

That's perfect!!! Good job.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Just picked it up last night. 
Large Stock Build

Mods:
Swapped Sram PG1070 for Shimano XT
Removed Stickers from:
-Seat tube
-Down tube
-Fork
-Prob gonna remove "fff" stickers
-Might take off head tube badge
Selle SMP PRO saddle stolen from other bike
Pedals stolen from other bike

Future Mods:
Seatpost (I am already over max height limit on stock post @ 6'2")
Maybe split tube
RF NW 34t (color?)
ODI Rouge grips
Solid spacer to replace the (5) currently (duh)
Remove Chain guide
Slam rear wheel all-da-way forward
Maxxis Chronicals
Garmin GPS mount
Pedals
Saddle
Intertube CS protector


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## Team Honeybadger (Dec 15, 2011)

jonshonda said:


> Just picked it up last night.
> Large Stock Build
> 
> Jonshonda,
> I know you had/have a 907 fatbike. I will be interested in hearing what you think of the krampus compared to your fatbike. I have a 170mm 907 and have considered a krampus often ever since they were released. I am curious about sizing. What is your inseam or biking inseam (Rivendell bikes refers to it that way) if you know it?? I am 5"10 with a 33" pants inseam and 36" rivendell inseam IIRC. I struggle with bike fit since i need the seatpost extension to get a good pedal stroke but then struggle to reach the bars unless using a shorter stem. Imagine T-Rex pedaling a bike and you have a pretty good picture. Anyhow, looking forward to your comments.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I can't give opinions on how it compares to a 9zero7 yet, but I can offer my thoughts on the geo of the Krampus. It is a pretty stretched out tt in comparison to the rest of the bike. The issue is with the latest AM geo, is the front end is fairly low and long. I am guessing you would need a frame that has what most would consider poor standover (for the longer legs, long seat tube), and a short top tube. 

I don't know my cycling inseam, but I do know that I run my saddle 31-5/8" from center of BB to top of saddle.


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## FrankZappa6 (Aug 9, 2010)

Team HB, maybe a flat-bar on a Deadwood in L or XL would work for you.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

jonshonda said:


> Just picked it up last night.
> Large Stock Build
> 
> Mods:
> ...


when i first got a set of chronicles for mine i couldnt slam the rear wheel all the way forward...its by far the biggest of the 3 inch tires i have seen...im running a dirt wizard on the back and a knard up front now which is a combo im really liking so far...the chronicles do have a bit of self steer and i wore out the rear tire in about 2000 miles but otherwise i was very pleased with them,they withstood some harsh,rocky conditions and shrugged off the desert plants and goatheads...


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

G0025116 by Mike, on Flickr

Untitled by Mike, on Flickr

Single Speed Krampus @ Chandler Ridge and Leicester Hollow in GMNF, VT.


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## Team Honeybadger (Dec 15, 2011)

FrankZappa, thanks I will keep that in mind. I had rode an XL krampus briefly in a parking lot and it actually seemed to fit well but I always wonder if I would be better off with a L especially with a bike that seems to be known for "running big".


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## Team Honeybadger (Dec 15, 2011)

I am guessing you would need a frame that has what most would consider poor standover (for the longer legs, long seat tube), and a short top tube.

I don't know my cycling inseam, but I do know that I run my saddle 31-5/8" from center of BB to top of saddle.[/QUOTE]

Jonshonda, thanks you pretty much nailed my fit "issues". I did ride an XL krampus briefly and it seemed to fit well. I have briefly tried other riders bikes and often they are shocked that I can ride without adjusting their seat due to the height differential between us. I do prefer shorter stems for trail bikes so at least I have that in my favor for these types of bikes. I look forward to more reports on the krampus!!


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## ElCapitan76 (Oct 5, 2015)

You Guys all have great taste. All my friends can't understand why I want one of these uniquley beautiful rigs... what do they know, they all drink crappy beer. I was hoping to find out if any of you Krampus veterans have a word of wisdom on the two finishes offered (matte black on OPS VS Swamp green)? I can order either from a LBS but have never seen the black matte in person. I am a bit concerned in how durable the matte black finish is. Sorry if is not the right thread for this... its my first post . Cheers


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Team Honeybadger said:


> Jonshonda, thanks you pretty much nailed my fit "issues". I did ride an XL krampus briefly and it seemed to fit well.


I am thinking a large frame w/ 50-70mm stem and 190mm cranks would be really good for you. The thing that sucks about a Krampus is the 2" of spacers you need to get a decent saddle/bar drop. Would is have really killed them to get that headtube a bit longer?

Quick questions for peeps:

1) When I slam my rear wheel all the way forward in the drops, the tire almost makes contact with the chain stay on the drive-side. I am guessing that is not correct. I was really looking forward to slamming it forward and not having to worry about centering the tire.

2) What is a better solution than the quick release for the rear hub? It seems really cumbersome and even like a poor after thought to have a QR like that.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

jonshonda said:


> I am thinking a large frame w/ 50-70mm stem and 190mm cranks would be really good for you. The thing that sucks about a Krampus is the 2" of spacers you need to get a decent saddle/bar drop. Would is have really killed them to get that headtube a bit longer?
> 
> Quick questions for peeps:
> 
> ...


Bolt on hub or get the DTSwiss RWS. I have a set and like them.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

bmike said:


> Bolt on hub or get the DTSwiss RWS. I have a set and like them.


Stop making me spend $$ jerk! haha


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

jonshonda said:


> Stop making me spend $$ jerk! haha


The steel MTB RWS are reasonable $$.

You could try duct tape or old chewing gum. That would be cheap.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

bmike said:


> The steel MTB RWS are reasonable $$.
> 
> You could try duct tape or old chewing gum. That would be cheap.


I will look into them.

Now to figure out what I will do about the dropout missalignment. Hoping the dish of the wheel is just off a bit.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

jonshonda said:


> I will look into them.
> 
> Now to figure out what I will do about the dropout missalignment. Hoping the dish of the wheel is just off a bit.


If the dish is spot on check the dropout for extra paint / material. If there's nothing file down the offending side.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

bmike said:


> If the dish is spot on check the dropout for extra paint / material. If there's nothing file down the offending side.


Sounds like a plan to me!


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## jackspade (Jul 23, 2010)

Hi, I am planning to get the Krampus fork for my 26" bike since I want go rigid with less change in the geometry.

My current fork length is around 470mm(80mm travel) and the Krampus according to Surly web it's 483mm. Also I might change into 27.5 rigid in the future would this fork length enough?

Please give advice and inputs. I include the pics of my bike.

Thanks.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

G0055377 by Mike, on Flickr


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## hardly_stuntworthy (Sep 4, 2007)

Well I have have my Surly Krampus for over a year now and the temptation to buy the new Trek Stache or Cannondale Beast from the East were very tempting, but I just could not justify the expense. So I figured the Krampus was due some upgrades and some tidying up. 
So I ordered a pair of Manitou Forks to suit, a new crown race, and a new boost hope hub and a couple of other bits to update or improve it slightly.
The frame was stripped and cleaned up, I then sprayed the Swampgas green with Camo Tan vinyl spray paint and added black decals to give it a somewhat military look.
The White rim strips were removed and replace with camo gorilla tape, I did try tubeless but gave up in frustration, then fitted Maxxis Hookworms and lightweight tubes.
Other updates have been, Truvativ blackbox carbon bars, Answer stem, Shimano Zee drivetrain, Shimano Saint hybrid brakes, Thudbuster seatpost, Hope discs, hope front and rear hubs, Raceface narrow wide chainring, and a Dabomb seat.

So far I like it and it is my urban commuter and all round fun bike.


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

Hardly stunt, Am interested in your input on the boost front end and Hope hubs.
I have a rigid fork and want to go suspension and thinking of doing your upgrade.
Do you really notice the additional stiffness? precision?


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Does anyone know if the new 2016 Fox Float 34 (part# 910-01-924) would fit on the Krampus and clear Chronicles on Dually Rims? Seriously looking for suspension, but don't want to build another wheel to accommodate a boost 110mm interface.


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## floorguy724 (Apr 20, 2004)

Awesome bikes guys, I just went thru the whole thread last night and today.

I just sold my Stache 5 to a good friend and ordered a Krampus frame to build (SS of course lol). I've never ridden a Krampus but want the steel frame. This thread made me want one even more!

Here is the Stache 5 that will be going to a new home after Christmas:









Sent from my Galaxy Note 5


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

floorguy724 said:


> Awesome bikes guys, I just went thru the whole thread last night and today.
> 
> I just sold my Stache 5 to a good friend and ordered a Krampus frame to build (SS of course lol). I've never ridden a Krampus but want the steel frame. This thread made me want one even more!
> 
> ...


Interesting how you decided to go from a relatively agile trail bike to a heavy and sluggish bikepacking rig.

Tell us how they compare when you get a chance to ride the Krampus.
I almost bought a Krampus for $800 earlier this year but then decided I'd rather spend that on a decent road bike, my LBS had 2 Krampuses in stock for 3 years and can't seem to get rid of them.


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## floorguy724 (Apr 20, 2004)

Will do. 

I have always liked the ride of steel better than aluminum. While the Trek is awesome and light, I think I'd prefer the ride of the Krampus despite the heavier weight. 

We'll see how it all works out....

Sent from my Galaxy Note 5


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Stay on topic guys.


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## Gorbac (Jan 5, 2006)

New krampus from northern of Spain


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## jos_2001 (May 16, 2011)

Gorbac said:


> New krampus from northern of Spain


nice!

and in the belgian mud


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## hardly_stuntworthy (Sep 4, 2007)

TuTone T said:


> Hardly stunt, Am interested in your input on the boost front end and Hope hubs.
> I have a rigid fork and want to go suspension and thinking of doing your upgrade.
> Do you really notice the additional stiffness? precision?


The Magnum is stiffer than a rock shox for sure, a lot more adjustment and a little pricey but worth it I think in the comfort stakes, not much else that suits it straight off of the shelf, steering is still goo and not affected.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

hardly_stuntworthy said:


> The Magnum is stiffer than a rock shox for sure, a lot more adjustment and a little pricey but worth it I think in the comfort stakes, not much else that suits it straight off of the shelf, steering is still goo and not affected.


How is the lockout on the magnum? The one think I don't like is a fork that bobs up and down when out of the saddle climbing.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

jonshonda said:


> How is the lockout on the magnum? The one think I don't like is a fork that bobs up and down when out of the saddle climbing.












This is how far mine moved after locking it out and pushing down on it firmly a few times.


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## iforgotmename (Jul 21, 2009)

*First couple of rides*

Loving this Krampus after the first two rides, poor Pugsley is sitting in the corner. Now if it would stop raining...or start snowing already


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## LRM (Nov 22, 2012)

On-One fatty carbon fork on Krampus? Possibility or no? It got bit lower A-C than the original fork and bit more rake. (Original A-C 483mm & 47mm, On-One 470mm & 55mm)
Trail would change from 96mm to 86mm with 75mm tyre. Trek Stache 5 have trail of 85mm so I think that would not be that bad, maybe.

+ It have 1 1/8 steerer, so no need for new headset.
+ Cheap.
- 135mm spacing and RDS, so need new front hub.

Of course there is always Whisky No. 9 and Spot forks. 
+ Better looking.
- Expencier.
+/- Tapered steerer and 15mm axle. Needing new headset lower cup. With my weight I don't know that do I really need tapered steerer or 15mm axle.
+ Old hub is fine with conversion caps.


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## efuss (Dec 15, 2011)

LBS (shout out to THICK Bikes) gave me a deal on a NOS 2013 frameset. Waiting for parts, but here is the build list:
Cane Creek ZS40/EC44 Headset
Manitou Magnum Pro 100
SRAM Team Pro GXP BB
SRAM GX Boost 2x Crankset 34/22
SRAM GX High Direct Mount 2x10 Front mech
SRAM GX 2.1 Rear Mech
Sunrace CS-MS3 11-42 10 spd cassette
Microshift 10SP Thumbies
Shimano XT M8000 Brakes 203mm F / 180mm R
Blunt 35 / Hope EVO 2 Boost 32H F
Blunt 35 Shimano XT 36H R
Thomson 0 x 70mm X4 Stem
Renthal FatBar 38mm Rise
Jagwire MTN Elite Sealed Shift Cables 

Plus some used bits:
Gravity Dropper 4" seat post
Brooks B17 Saddle
Salsa Flip Lock clamp
Used Knards from KramPug set up split tube
MKS Grip King Pedals- drilled & added spikes

I am super stoked, been wanting a Krampus since they were introduced, but always held out for front suspension. I have high hopes for the Magnum.
I will post pics as the build progresses.

EDIT
Asking how much it cost is like asking a woman's weight.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

I have a magnum comp on my Krampus. The fork is a great performer. The only downside( for me) is the high A to C. Raises the BB more than I like. But, it's workable. Enjoy that new ride!


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

efuss said:


> LBS (shout out to THICK Bikes) gave me a deal on a NOS 2013 frameset. Waiting for parts, but here is the build list:
> Cane Creek ZS40/EC44 Headset
> Manitou Magnum Pro 100
> SRAM Team Pro GXP BB
> ...


 yeah,i dont even like to think about what i spent on mine

just two parts left to get,a hope pro4evo rear hub in red and probably just a pro2 front hub in red,still need to get the chris king headset installed,just put a fabric saddle on..














race face turbine crank
absolute black oval chainring 32 teeth
wolf tooth 10mm chainring bolts
hope bottom bracket
spank spike pedals
shimano xt rear derailleur
one up radr derailleur cage
kcnc 11 tooth pulley wheel and bolt
shimano xt cassette
oneup 42 tooth cassette expander cog
chris king headset
race face atlas stem
chris king stack spacer
race face atlas special edition monster green riser bars
esi chunky silicon grips
shimano xt shifter
jagwire mountain pro brake and shifter cables
diety seatpost
fabric scoop saddle
and the hope pro4evo rear/pro2 evo front hubs on surly rabbit holes with maxxis chronicles 120 tpi set up split tube


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I like the addition of the red. Gives it a classic red or green NM touch.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

just like i like my chili,mainly green with a little red here and there...

now im forced to become a half decent rider! with a flashy bike like that i better bring it!


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Wondering if there are any other female riders on the Krampus. I'm 5'7" on a size small, kind of a weird fit with a very high seat post, but medium's reach would have been too long.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

I'm sure it's been covered, but will a Chupacabra cause way more chain rub when mashing up hill than the Knard on the stock RH wheels? I've seen that they are supposed to be a bit wider than the Knards. I'm running a 30t narrow/wide ring in the front and the chain just grazes the sidewall when I really crank hard on a climb, but it's no big deal with the stock tires. Thanks in advance.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

im running a chronicle slammed on mine and its fine,no chainrub issues at all and the chronicle is a bit wider a tire than the chupas


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Anybody have the Krampus fork with mounts to sell? This is NOT the stock one, but the alternate version with extra rack/bottle cage mounting points.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

Muirenn said:


> Wondering if there are any other female riders on the Krampus. I'm 5'7" on a size small, kind of a weird fit with a very high seat post, but medium's reach would have been too long.


Muirenn I'm not a woman but I am about 5'7" and ride a medium. I also have longer legs proportionally. The reach is perfectly fine in fact I quite like the extra room when I'm standing on this bike. The actual tt length is longer then other bikes I own I accommodate that with a shorter stem and or with bars with a bit more sweep. Bars with an 11 or 12 deg sweep like salsa or syntace bars bring the reach significantly closer. I have been able to find my happy place with either a 12 deg bar and 60mm stem or 9 deg bar and 50mm stem. I would even consider running a 40mm stem and an 8deg bar.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## OfficerFriendly (Apr 16, 2014)

What do you guys think of the idea of running a Krampus as 27.5+? I see a lot of people have been running theirs as standard 29er so the wheel should be about the same diameter? Or I was also looking at the Karate Monkey but I don't know if that will fully fit 27.5+!


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Ol' Bromy said:


> I'm sure it's been covered, but will a Chupacabra cause way more chain rub when mashing up hill than the Knard on the stock RH wheels?


With my wheel slammed forward I get some rubbing w/ a tubeless 27tpi Knard, but eliminated a lot of it by switching to a Shimano XT Skewer. My next planned wheel build will have Chris Kings w/ fun bolts.


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## kallie (Jul 29, 2007)

https://i66.tinypic.com/e9z1fo.jpg

Don't know Any more where I found this picture


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## crankpuller (Feb 27, 2004)

OfficerFriendly said:


> What do you guys think of the idea of running a Krampus as 27.5+? I see a lot of people have been running theirs as standard 29er so the wheel should be about the same diameter? Or I was also looking at the Karate Monkey but I don't know if that will fully fit 27.5+!


Not sure I understand the logic of buying a 29+ frame to run a 27+ wheel.

If you want 27+ there seem to be alot of options out there.... none of which will be as fun as a 29+ IMO...


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## BlueriderAK (Sep 22, 2007)

Well, I for one am interested to see if the 27.5 x 3.8's on 50mm rims will fit in my Krampus.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

BlueriderAK said:


> Well, I for one am interested to see if the 27.5 x 3.8's on 50mm rims will fit in my Krampus.


my guess would be nope, on the rear. I have no proof.

PS. i do own a Krampus.


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## pdxfixed (Feb 18, 2016)

BlueriderAK said:


> Well, I for one am interested to see if the 27.5 x 3.8's on 50mm rims will fit in my Krampus.


Count me in as curious!


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## OfficerFriendly (Apr 16, 2014)

crankpuller said:


> Not sure I understand the logic of buying a 29+ frame to run a 27+ wheel.
> 
> If you want 27+ there seem to be alot of options out there.... none of which will be as fun as a 29+ IMO...


I really like the Surly Krampus frameset and don't see any 27.5+ steel framesets availible bar the Advocate Cycles Hayduke which is £550 for the frame only and the Krampus is £400 with a fork. There is also the Genesis Longitude but it has an alluminium fork and a horrible colour which are both dealbreakers for me. Annoyingly the complete build Genesis comes in an awesome Camo colour but I really want to build it up myself. 
And I have a 29+ (Surly ECR) and have ridden a 27.5+, which I much prefer. And I would definetely say the 27.5+ was more fun and playful.

And thanks Kallie for the picture, it looks fantastic! But no other info


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## kallie (Jul 29, 2007)

__ https://www.facebook.com/keeppedalling/posts/1173668379316180



Not much info


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

OfficerFriendly said:


> I really like the Surly Krampus frameset and don't see any 27.5+ steel framesets availible bar the Advocate Cycles Hayduke(


marin pine mountain
jamis dragon slayer


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## efuss (Dec 15, 2011)

BlueriderAK said:


> Well, I for one am interested to see if the 27.5 x 3.8's on 50mm rims will fit in my Krampus.


Why? 3.8's are for fat bikes. Krampus is not designed for 3.8 tires.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

BlueriderAK said:


> Well, I for one am interested to see if the 27.5 x 3.8's on 50mm rims will fit in my Krampus.


There is zero chance a 3.8" tire will fit the Krampus. The 3" tire it was designed to be used with barely fits. There is no extra width between the chainstays to use. :nono:

You could install the 3.8" tire deflated in the rear and then inflate once in the bike. You couldn't actually ride the bike, but it would look cool.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

vikb said:


> You could install the 3.8" tire deflated in the rear and then inflate once in the bike. You couldn't actually ride the bike, but it would look cool.


I laughed so hard and disrupted the people around me.


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## 29ger (Jan 1, 2011)

After a few shakedown rides around the house, I finally got to stretch the Krampus legs today. The pic is at the top of Megasteps/Klondike in Moab.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

29ger said:


> After a few shakedown rides around the house, I finally got to stretch the Krampus legs today. The pic is at the top of Megasteps/Klondike in Moab.
> View attachment 1052674


Noice shot!


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Pretty much a fat bike less winter this year. Single speed Krampus with Nicotines.

MTB BTV morning by Mike, on Flickr

Single speed stud(s) by Mike, on Flickr


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## rmalling (Oct 15, 2005)

*Krampus Review Three Weeks In*









I read 90% of the posts on this thread before pulling the trigger, so thanks to those who posted on here. I'm about 3 weeks in with my Krampus and have about 5 rides under my belt and wanted to share my impressions for others out there thinking about this bike. Trails were mostly smooth single track with some rocky step ups/downs, some 5-15 minute climbs and descents, loose corners mixed with hero dirt banks, and plenty of switchbacks.

I'm coming off a 6.5' travel trail bike and I ride 90% of what I encounter on the trail; rock gardens, drops, steep climbs, and jumps on the trail (nothing huge 1-2 feet high with 4-5 gaps) wet my whistle and I knew my next bike needed to keep me charging. (I walk up 10% of the climbs I encounter in my home state of CO; I'm a beer lover, too frickin' bad).

The reviews on the Krampus talked about how surprised riders were at what this bike could handle both on the descents and climbs. "Wanna rail through a rock garden without worrying too much about your line? Point this bike and stay light on the tires and it makes it through." = correct. "Need to hammer out a climb even on loose gravel? Ensure the tire pressure is right and stand up and hammer." = correct. "This bike will put a smile on your face!" = correct. Add in the fact that a rigid 29er maximizes all of your pedaling effort and the huge wheel/tire diameter keep you up to speed balanced with the small bump compliance of the tires at a low pressure, my speeds are noticeably faster on my standard loops (no need for Strava to confirm these times; you can feel it taking off under you).

First Impressions: this bike rides like it is billed to ride and the feedback from reviews on this site as well as MBAction Magazine are spot on; fun, fast, flickable, tank-like when needed, and efficient. I forget I'm not on a full suspension bike and have told myself to slow down b/c of that, but I keep riding like I have for years and have yet to be caught off guard.

Recommended For: A rider looking for something different. I won't hang up my 6.5" trail bike as many trails on the Front Range of CO and Moab require the recovery and comfort full suspension providewhen descending at speed. Getting burned out on riding? The simplicity and handling of this bike will keep things fresh as you pick your way around trails you've ridden for years on your go-to bike and consistently get surprised that you're riding a rigid 29+ under you.

Issues: I converted to tubeless via the triple Gorilla Tape method with Stans; picked a cool pattern to show through the rim holes. Took an hour of shaking, spinning, and high pressure to seat one of the sidewalls. The wheels keep pressure for about 36 hours before dropping back into single digit pressures; nothing ten reps on the pump won't take care of. Could be annoying eventually. Not an issue, but added a longer seat tube and a riser bar to accommodate my 33" inseam and long arms. I added a 30 teeth ring combined with an 11-40 10-speed cassette and this has left me thinking once or twice of my granny gear on my 3x9 bike, but not a deal breaker; stand up and hammer and get stronger in the process. Be ready to take a few hits: more than once my arms have absorbed some big hits that I wasn't ready for as I ride this thing like I have 6.5" travel under me. No crashes as of yet.

Oh yeah, a bike like this for under 2 frickin' grand that provides the fun of a $6K full suspension trail bike is pretty sweet. Money left over to play around with parts upgrades and seeing my buddy regret his $5K purchase of a 27.5 Trek Remedy 9.8 after riding my bike makes it extra sweet. More beer money is never a bad thing.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Great review! Another one in the string that I have been reading, steering me towards ordering one tomorrow now that the tax return is back. 2 years of researching and waiting will come to an end in the next 3 weeks! Can't wait to get it out there and get dirty


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## Ripperme48 (Apr 29, 2006)

Here is mine! :thumbsup:


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

Ripperme48 said:


> Here is mine! :thumbsup:


Nice... what fork is that? I can't quite read the writing. Thanks.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

WOO HOO!!!!! New Bike Day

Just ordered my Krampus. Will possibly be in this weekend. My first new bike since 1994. I haven't been this excited about bike stuff since I got my Supergoose as a kid in 81.

Thanks to Dave Baer at Baer Wheels in C-bus Ohio for the help in getting this done. LBS's rule!!

Gonna be a fun, muddy, scabby Spring!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sXeXBMXer said:


> My first new bike since 1994.


Holy $hit! Congrats man!  Enjoy the new ride! :thumbsup:


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

vikb said:


> Holy $hit! Congrats man!  Enjoy the new ride! :thumbsup:


Thanks! This is going to be a "new world" for sure this spring. Going form a 26er Trek from 1994 to this guy. I can't wait. I know much of it will be like starting over, but tha tis possibly what I need...to relearn how to use the bike. It's gonna make a lot of the trials seem brand new again, which is awesome. Also going to give me a lot more options as to what, where and how I ride...


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## Ripperme48 (Apr 29, 2006)

It's a carbon White Bros. fork. Love the bike!


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## 29ger (Jan 1, 2011)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Thanks! This is going to be a "new world" for sure this spring. Going form a 26er Trek from 1994 to this guy. I can't wait. I know much of it will be like starting over, but tha tis possibly what I need...to relearn how to use the bike. It's gonna make a lot of the trials seem brand new again, which is awesome. Also going to give me a lot more options as to what, where and how I ride...


That is going to be a new world! It's very different than my hardtail 29er, I can't imagine how different than a 26er. Congrats!!


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

sXeXBMXer said:


> WOO HOO!!!!! New Bike Day
> 
> Just ordered my Krampus. Will possibly be in this weekend. My first new bike since 1994. I haven't been this excited about bike stuff since I got my Supergoose as a kid in 81.
> 
> Congratulations! You're gonna love this bike! The Krampus is a blast to ride and it's a real ripper


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## hooker_47 (Apr 12, 2007)

Just saw that Surly has put a "While Supplies Last" sticker on the website for the Krampus. Are changes on their way?


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

hooker_47 said:


> Just saw that Surly has put a "While Supplies Last" sticker on the website for the Krampus. Are changes on their way?


Looks like it's on the model with the track fork ends, not the modular dropouts


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

They had the "While Supplies Last" on their site when I bought mine last year. Maybe she's getting a redesign after they sell out?


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Supposedly, they are combining the Krampus - or maybe "replacing" it -with the Krampus Ops. I asked the same thing when I was ordering. In October, the new edition is supposed to come out. The guy I deal with - Dave Baer at Baer Wheels in C-bus Ohio said he did not know whether it was going to be in a different color or not, but that they were basically just "ending" the regular Kramps for the Ops


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

29ger said:


> That is going to be a new world! It's very different than my hardtail 29er, I can't imagine how different than a 26er. Congrats!!


Thanks!! That was sort of the idea....try to reinvent the way I ride, or how I "see" the trails I ave been riding with the other bike. Sort of like "starting over again".

Plus, I had not had the $$$$ to "upgrade" in the past 15 or so years, and now that the financial ship has righted itself, I thought it would be a good thing to do. It is like a "gift" for the work I have done to make my life more solid. Plus riding helps clear the mind and that has helped in the journey too


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Supposedly, they are combining the Krampus - or maybe "replacing" it -with the Krampus Ops.












The green Krampus is history when they sell the last ones. After that it will be all MDS dropout Krampi.


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## efuss (Dec 15, 2011)

*Midlife crisis machine*

Been daydreaming / planning this bike for 3 years, now it is real!


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

vikb said:


> The green Krampus is history when they sell the last ones. After that it will be all MDS dropout Krampi.


Glad I got an OG Krampus before they're gone.


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

You just can't go wrong with a Krampus. 
I just got my midlife crisis bike after two and a half years... I had a tough time deciding between the Krampus and the ECR. Both are great! I finally got an ECR. Riding it makes me feel like a kid again! Definitely a "land cruiser."


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

FoafInTX said:


> You just can't go wrong with a Krampus.
> I just got my midlife crisis bike after two and a half years... I had a tough time deciding between the Krampus and the ECR. Both are great! I finally got an ECR. Riding it makes me feel like a kid again! Definitely a "land cruiser."


Those are the exact 2 bikes I had been waffling about as well for the past 2-3 years. I finally decided that for the immediate future, the Krampus is more what I needed - it can easily convert to a bike-packer if I need it to. I won't have time in my life for another 10 years to do full out bike-packing trips, so thenI will get an ECR, or whatever Surly has at the time that is comparable....or maybe will still just use the Krampus...heck, if guys and gals can cross Africa on a Krampus, I think it would survive the jaunts I plan here in the mid-west and Canada....

I am also glad I got the OG model as well...


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## Ripperme48 (Apr 29, 2006)

*Krampus with fenders...check*

Here is mine with the OEM fork and fenders. :thumbsup:


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Ol' Bromy said:


> Glad I got an OG Krampus before they're gone.


Wonder how long the greens will be available? The Surly website has had the "while supplies last" tag on the OG Krampus for at least a year now.


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## crackerdog (Dec 18, 2011)

Love seeing a bike with fenders. I don't understand why people don't mind being soaked and dirty while riding. I can understand it in a race but wet shoes are just uncomfortable after a few hours. Good job. What brand of fenders?


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

it is so funny about fenders. I grew up on a BMX, so being muddy and dirty was just part of it. I never put fenders on my bike b/c they would just come off through all of the bumps and jumps. I did have them on my Trek 830 when it was my commmuter, but took them off on the trail for the same reason as above. 

Being dirty after a trail ride was always a sign of accomplishment for me...


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

sXeXBMXer said:


> it is so funny about fenders. I grew up on a BMX, so being muddy and dirty was just part of it. I never put fenders on my bike b/c they would just come off through all of the bumps and jumps. I did have them on my Trek 830 when it was my commmuter, but took them off on the trail for the same reason as above.
> 
> Being dirty after a trail ride was always a sign of accomplishment for me...


I dont use fenders either, I like getting my bikes a little dirty from time to time. Also it's good when your bike doesn't look like a cruiser. But that's just my opinion.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I put a rear fender on my all mtn bike this winter here in the PNW after getting tired of a soggy groin. It's been amazing. Stays in place when bombing trails/juping and I am much happier on my rides.

https://vikapprovedblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/mudhugger-fender-review/

As a bonus it keeps my dropper and my rear shock/upper suspension components very clean for reduced maintenance.

I have the smaller 26er version, but I put a 29er version on my Krampus for a second and it looked like it could work. My buddy will be installing one on his Krampus and I'll report back once he's confirmed it work well with the 3" tire.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Used komplete Krampus for $900?? Good deal?
Where in between a rigid 9z7 fatty and 100mm 27.5 full squish do I need this in my life?


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## bikepunk13 (Mar 27, 2012)

vikb said:


> The green Krampus is history when they sell the last ones. After that it will be all MDS dropout Krampi.


The standard Krampus and the Krampus Ops are both on closeout in QBP right now so a change is coming. I just order the Ops, had to go for the MDS drops.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

bikepunk13 said:


> The standard Krampus and the Krampus Ops are both on closeout in QBP right now so a change is coming. I just order the Ops, had to go for the MDS drops.


closeout? as in on sale? price?


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## bikepunk13 (Mar 27, 2012)

*OneSpeed* said:


> closeout? as in on sale? price?


Yep. Both are 20% off now. There are nine Surly models on closeout right now.


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## Ripperme48 (Apr 29, 2006)

Thanks! They are Big O Mfg. fenders. I am about to convert this to a digital Krampus commuter rig. (Mid drive E-Assist kit)


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## Ripperme48 (Apr 29, 2006)

*Here is a recent night shot of my rig*

:thumbsup:


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## gooseberry1 (Mar 16, 2016)

Yes this bike is the most fun out of all my bikes and with the new wheels it's over the top fun and can't loose the smile










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Chippertheripper said:


> Used komplete Krampus for $900?? Good deal?
> Where in between a rigid 9z7 fatty and 100mm 27.5 full squish do I need this in my life?


I looked into getting a 29+ wheelset for my 9zero7 and realized that for almost the same price I could have a complete 29+ rig to dump more money into.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

jonshonda said:


> I looked into getting a 29+ wheelset for my 9zero7 and realized that for almost the same price I could have a complete 29+ rig to dump more money into.


Good point. I could just slap another set of hoops on the 9z7 and be done with it. That would certainly keep Mrs ripper from noticing another bike in the garage.


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## crankpuller (Feb 27, 2004)

gooseberry1 said:


> Yes this bike is the most fun out of all my bikes and with the new wheels it's over the top fun and can't loose the smile
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice saddle bag!


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## kmfarrell18 (Feb 5, 2016)

*PSI: Tubes and Tubeless*

I recently joined the club and got a beautiful XL Krampus. I plan to slowly upgrade components. One of the first tasks I thought I would be doing is going tubeless but I have not done it yet as I have been using the bike mostly on rail-trails and around the City. Once things dry up around here I'll throw in much more single track riding.

So my questions to anyone who has kept your tubes in the knards, what PSI are you running for more aggressive single track riding?

To those who have gone tubeless, what PSI are you running when you are riding on less aggressive trails or roads?

Loving this bike! It is nice for the first time in my life to have a bike that actually fits me! :thumbsup:


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## gooseberry1 (Mar 16, 2016)

kmfarrell18 said:


> I recently joined the club and got a beautiful XL Krampus. I plan to slowly upgrade components. One of the first tasks I thought I would be doing is going tubeless but I have not done it yet as I have been using the bike mostly on rail-trails and around the City. Once things dry up around here I'll throw in much more single track riding.
> 
> So my questions to anyone who has kept your tubes in the knards, what PSI are you running for more aggressive single track riding?
> 
> ...


My gauge does not work well at below 20 so I'm guessing my pressure to be in the 15 pound range. With that said it's really how the tire feels to you.

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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I rode the Krampus for the first time in a while, and forgot how much fun it is with the wheel slammed all the way forward in the drops. The front end lifts much easier than my 9zero7. 

Anyone else have issue with their front brake caliper coming in contact with the spokes. I am running XT brakes and every once in a while a spoke or two will ding off the caliper.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

sXeXBMXer said:


> ...My first new bike since 1994.....


Thats funny.
Krampus was my first new bike since 1994 too (Litespeed Ocoee).

Its been so fun to ride. I cant believe someone called it a sluggish bikepacking bike. I find it very nimble.


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

drummerdavid said:


> Thats funny.
> Krampus was my first new bike since 1994 too (Litespeed Ocoee).
> 
> Its been so fun to ride. I cant believe someone called it a sluggish bikepacking bike. I find it very nimble.


Compared to modern trail bikes the Krampus is sluggish,
but when it is compared to bikes that are similar or older, it may very well feel nimble.


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

I really thought the Krampus was my next bike, and it still could be. I'm just real in tune with the guys at LBS. We also have an excellent bar next door, lol.

This Marin Pine Mountain is definitely another choice.



I'm not really comparing pricing, but this one runs about $400 dollars less. Has Hydraulic brakes, tubeless ready Schwalbe's and wheels. I am also excited about that extra low gear with that 42 cassette. It's also a bit of a looker.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

drummerdavid said:


> Thats funny.
> Krampus was my first new bike since 1994 too (Litespeed Ocoee).
> 
> Its been so fun to ride. I cant believe someone called it a sluggish bikepacking bike. I find it very nimble.


cool...and by the looks of your name, you are a drummer...as am I. Have been drumming since 1976....been biking since about the same time


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

sXeXBMXer said:


> cool...and by the looks of your name, you are a drummer...as am I. Have been drumming since 1976....been biking since about the same time


Nice. Yep, drumming away here. In fact gigging is why I quit bike racing. But shows are dam hard work, and now I want to ride more.


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## efuss (Dec 15, 2011)

jonshonda said:


> I rode the Krampus for the first time in a while, and forgot how much fun it is with the wheel slammed all the way forward in the drops. The front end lifts much easier than my 9zero7.
> 
> Anyone else have issue with their front brake caliper coming in contact with the spokes. I am running XT brakes and every once in a while a spoke or two will ding off the caliper.


Not this exact issue, but I had to space my front rotor to get it centered with the caliper (XT M8000 Brakes). Big difference is I am running a Hope Pro EVO Boost hub / Manitou Magnum fork. 
I would try adding a few rotor shims and re-center the caliper.


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## Mr Pink57 (Jul 30, 2009)

bikepunk13 said:


> Yep. Both are 20% off now. There are nine Surly models on closeout right now.


I almost pulled the trigger on a ICT or Ops thru Q but went with a wheelset for my pugsley 29+ instead.


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## kmfarrell18 (Feb 5, 2016)

*The Beast on the River*









Took a beautiful Easter cruise along the Genesee River (Rochester, NY). Three weeks in and loving the krampus! Only upgrade so far is some secondhand purple cages and spd pedals (not pictured). Going to be putting a dirt wizard up front soon.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

IT FINALLY ARRIVED!!!!

Literally rode it all day today. My legs, arms, and arse are feeling it! But i am in HEAVEN!! First new bike in 25 years!!!


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## deadcactus (Jan 6, 2016)

Any recommendations on a 29+ tire with a thick sidewall for rocky/pointy terrain?


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

deadcactus said:


> Any recommendations on a 29+ tire with a thick sidewall for rocky/pointy terrain?


chronicles do great in the desert with the exo casing,good traction,plenty durable...i understand they arent so good in the wet...heck,i have 6 of them on 4 different bikes,the first pair which had 2-3000 miles on them are being used as front tires on my ogre and karate monkey,theres a set on my krampus,and i just got a 29+ wheelset for my ICT so another pair there...


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## iocopocomaioco (Apr 4, 2016)

new to the forum, and just walked out of a bike shop that's currently getting a new Krampus ready for me.... thanks for the 135 pages of comments, really helped doing my homework! Will pick it up at the end of the day... cannot wait! Now I have to find out more about trails in and around London....


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

iocopocomaioco said:


> new to the forum, and just walked out of a bike shop that's currently getting a new Krampus ready for me.... thanks for the 135 pages of comments, really helped doing my homework! Will pick it up at the end of the day... cannot wait! Now I have to find out more about trails in and around London....


You will love it. Mine was new on saturday and I could not get off of it. Can't wait till this coming weekend as well!!!


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## Drliamski (Jan 8, 2015)

Swinley forest 

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## joemac84 (Apr 8, 2016)

*Krampus sizing and instigator?*

Long time lurker, first time poster... I've been researching for a new bike for some time, jumped from a Fat Tire (wednesday), to 27.5+ hard tail (orbea loki), to 26+ (instigator), till i landed on the Kramous. I'm looking for a trail bike primarily single track that can run over anything, grind some gravel, and take on an occasional bikepacking trip. I live in midwest so climbs are never too long but their are some decent steep ravines.

After reading most of these pages i'm leaning to the Krampus but still considering the Instigator... My hang up is sizing. I'm 5'9"+ and have a 31.25" cycle inseam. Would that equate to a small Krampus? I would like to run a frame/seat/bar bag for packing and am concerned with the clearence on a small...but this will only be a couple of times a year. Should i keep the Instigator in mind? what do you think about seat & stem options for set back?

I'm going to the LBS later today to help get sized and ask them as well and hopefully put an order in!


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

Medium


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

joemac84 said:


> After reading most of these pages i'm leaning to the Krampus but still considering the Instigator... My hang up is sizing. I'm 5'9"+ and have a 31.25" cycle inseam. Would that equate to a small Krampus? I would like to run a frame/seat/bar bag for packing and am concerned with the clearence on a small...but this will only be a couple of times a year. Should i keep the Instigator in mind? what do you think about seat & stem options for set back?
> 
> I'm going to the LBS later today to help get sized and ask them as well and hopefully put an order in!


5'8" here, run my saddle 73-74cm above the center of the crank. not sure what my cycling inseam is.
i'm on a medium... and happy with that choice


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

joemac84 said:


> My hang up is sizing. I'm 5'9"+ and have a 31.25" cycle inseam. Would that equate to a small Krampus? I would like to run a frame/seat/bar bag for packing and am concerned with the clearence on a small...but this will only be a couple of times a year.












I wear size 32" inseam pants. This ^^^ is a medium Krampus with a Porcelain Rocket Mr. Fusion V2 seat bag.

Mr. Fusion V2 | Custom Bicycle Bags - The Porcelain Rocket

This bag has metal stays which prevent it from sagging and keep it super stable on rough terrain. I've toured with several folks that had their soft seat bags sag into their rear tire. The bags looked fine at home, but after hours of banging around on the trail they moved lower enough to be a problem. So for shorter riders the metal stay design seatbag is pretty important.

If in doubt contact Scott at Porcelain Rocket and ask him what he thinks. He's about your height and familiar with the Krampus and has access to one to test fit a bag. He's likely got a pretty good idea of what the best solution is.










The other option is using a rear rack with a dry bag strapped to the top when you bikepack or need to carry cargo.

The benefits are:

- cheaper than a highend bikepacking seat bag
- no bag rub
- very stable
- dropper compatible
- easy install/removal
- depending on rack can be used with panniers for utility rides

The photo above ^^^ is a prototype ultra-light bikepacking rack I just got in. Sorry no mounted pics yet...that's my job this weekend.










Same bike ^^^ with a normal OMM touring rack on it. Over kill for strapping a dry bag to, but works just fine and can be shared with an other bike you have.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

I'm 5'7" with a 33.3 " inseam on a small, and wish I'd gotten the medium. Since i have Jones bars, the the reach is effectively shortened, and the size small has a tiny diamond opening with only one set of bottle cage bosses. Something they don't mention on the website. It's problematic for bike packing. And for me, I have so much exposed seat post it's odd looking. (Actually, the ECR medium would probably fit me perfectly, the Krampus medium is longer, but it sounds ideal for you. I do use a zero offset seat post to try and get my knees over the pedals, which brings me forward....


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## Sandman29 (Jan 22, 2009)

If a person at 5'6"ish wants to get into the midfat bikes and they are deciding between a Krampus and an Instigator. Why not go for the Instigator since it is on sale, apparently for $1350. That is a great bike at that bike at the price. You could always add a Krampus at a later date to your collection.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Sandman29 said:


> If a person at 5'6"ish wants to get into the midfat bikes and they are deciding between a Krampus and an Instigator. Why not go for the Instigator since it is on sale, apparently for $1350. That is a great bike at that bike at the price. You could always add a Krampus at a later date to your collection.


as of last week the Krampus was on sale too. not sure what the price is though? I want to say 20% off putting it close to the Instigator, not sure though.


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## Sandman29 (Jan 22, 2009)

Is that both the Krampus and the Krampus ops on sale or just the Krampus? I want a Krampus but people might have me committed to the nut house if I add another 29+ bike. I have the ROS9+ in Tampa and the Stache 5 in Illinois.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

It is just the Krampus. they are merging the 2 models in Oct from what I hear. I got mine for a steal b/c Surly is encouraging some of their dealers to sell at discounted prices to move product...


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## AJR730 (Jul 20, 2015)

sXeXBMXer said:


> It is just the Krampus. they are merging the 2 models in Oct from what I hear. I got mine for a steal b/c Surly is encouraging some of their dealers to sell at discounted prices to move product...


So you're hearing that they're eliminating the regular Krampus and going to the Ops only or they're commonizing to a single new model?


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

From what my LBS owner said, it sounds like they are going with just the Ops...it will become the single Krampus. I don't know if they are then going to introduce some other bike in the "empty slot"...I alos hear the new model might not be in the sparkly green either if that matters


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## joemac84 (Apr 8, 2016)

Thank you all for the tips and advice. can't wait to swing my leg over the medium krampus!


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## iocopocomaioco (Apr 4, 2016)

Drliamski said:


> Swinley forest
> 
> Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk


Great tip ! went there today, if briefly, and it's a nice area. Will definitely return.

I also found out there is a cycle route in Hampstead Heath (nothing like Swinley... but it's close to home, nice and hilly... good to get some exercise...).

Now that I am starting to ride it... definitely like the size (I ride a large) and the + wheels - feel nice and stable at speed and on mud/gravel. One thing, I often wish for more gearing when climbing. Might sacrifice the space of the smallest gear for a larger one. Has anyone done that? Or shall I shush and just work those muscles up?

Also got my first flat... going tubeless next on the list.


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## Drliamski (Jan 8, 2015)

Where are you based.? I'm in crouch end! Be interested in seeing your krampus 

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## iocopocomaioco (Apr 4, 2016)

for sure. I'm in Hampstead, not far !


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## Drliamski (Jan 8, 2015)

I will be taking the bike on Monday or Tuesday after work for a roll at Lordship pump track... You got any local spots that you ride? 

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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

sXeXBMXer said:


> From what my LBS owner said, it sounds like they are going with just the Ops...it will become the single Krampus. I don't know if they are then going to introduce some other bike in the "empty slot"...I alos hear the new model might not be in the sparkly green either if that matters


I've exchanged emails with Bob @ Surly regarding availability of large Krampus and Krampus OPS frames.

"The Krampus is undergoing some development and will be available again in late October (both complete bikes and framesets). The "Ops" version will no longer be available, just the standard Krampus."

Which is a bummer.

I'm struggling with size as well. I initially assumed I'd ride a large, but I've always been happy with a 24" effective top tube on my bikes. So at a 6' 1.75", 32" jeans inseam, would I be good on a medium? Or a large with a short stem...?

Def prefer an ops frame.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

reamer41 said:


> I've exchanged emails with Bob @ Surly regarding availability of large Krampus and Krampus OPS frames.
> 
> "The Krampus is undergoing some development and will be available again in late October (both complete bikes and framesets). The "Ops" version will no longer be available, just the standard Krampus."
> 
> ...


I'm 5'7" on a small, and wish I'd gotten a medium.

So, large.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

reamer41 said:


> I've exchanged emails with Bob @ Surly regarding availability of large Krampus and Krampus OPS frames.
> 
> "The Krampus is undergoing some development and will be available again in late October (both complete bikes and framesets). The "Ops" version will no longer be available, just the standard Krampus."
> 
> ...


that's surprising to hear, and contrary to what i've heard until now, that the Krampus will live on and the OPS will die. obviously rumors, but the opposite of what i thought.

now i'm eager to know what the new "development" will be.

size wise you would fit a Large nicely. I'm 6'3" and prefer 24.5-25" ETT. i thought the XL would be slightly big and i would need a shorter stem but it's perfect.


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## bikepunk13 (Mar 27, 2012)

I think it's the Ops name that is dying. If anything the new Krampus will resemble the Ops more than the original, really the only thing separating the frames is the MDS drops and I don't think they would move away from those. I could also see a more dropper friendly seat tube size on the new one.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Be nice to see them shorten the chainstays, not sure if that'll happen.

Los


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

I spoke to Surly the other day and found out that a 110 spaced fork was not in the works at the moment, but just as the ICT was designed with the same hub compatibility specs as the Bluto, they would probably redesign a Krampus fork if the industry started pumping out proper 29+ forks.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

sslos said:


> Be nice to see them shorten the chainstays, not sure if that'll happen.
> 
> Los


get the non-ops version and they get pretty [email protected] short.


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## bikepunk13 (Mar 27, 2012)

jonshonda said:


> get the non-ops version and they get pretty [email protected] short.


You got a measurement on that? Surly lists them as the same length on both versions.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

bikepunk13 said:


> I think it's the Ops name that is dying. If anything the new Krampus will resemble the Ops more than the original, really the only thing separating the frames is the MDS drops and I don't think they would move away from those. I could also see a more dropper friendly seat tube size on the new one.


this is what I heard from the owner of the LBS where I bought mine. He is an "Intergalactic" dealer so I feel that he probably has some kind of "in".


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

jonshonda said:


> get the non-ops version and they get pretty [email protected] short.


Yeeeaahhhh... I'm not sure I'd classify 17.5" as particularly short.
I'd hope for some tweaking to get under 17". 
I don't know if that's feasible while maintaining the versatility that make Surlys so great, though.

Los


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## Sandman29 (Jan 22, 2009)

reamer41,

At almost 6'2" you are probably a large. If you like a shorter top tube you can get a short stem. Hopefully, Surly has a Large Krampus or Krampus OPS for you.

Since you have to get your Surly through a local bike shop, that shop can measure you properly. If you are wearing 32" inseam, your real inseam (biking inseam) is probably between 34" to 35". Generally pants have a shorter inseam to give your "Man Parts" some room to breath.

For many people the top of their saddle to the middle of their bottom bracket is about 88.3% of the length of their biking inseam. So, at 34" to 35" inch inseam that is about 30" to 30.9" inches from top of saddle to center of bottom bracket.

By the way, I am about the same height as you, and I would definately ride a Large.

On another subject, I don't know if this is the case, but I would not doubt it if Surly makes changes over time on all their bikes to give them the same the drop outs that are on the Surly Wednesday. The Wednesdays dropouts are thru axel that can be used as single speed or geared without swapping out dropouts like on the OPS. The Wednesday also has a vertical cut out on the inside to make the wheel come on and off easier than a typical horizonal dropout. I find the Wednesday dropout to have great lateral stiffness. So, my guess is that this is the change they will bring to the Krampus.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Great info Sandman. 

I'll measure my seat to bb center on my other bikes for grins. 

Unfortunately my shop says no larges available, and Surly says availability in October. 

No rush....


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Reamer, I am 6'2" with a longer torso and love my Large. An XL has a pretty long reach and ett.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

sslos said:


> Yeeeaahhhh... I'm not sure I'd classify 17.5" as particularly short.
> I'd hope for some tweaking to get under 17".
> I don't know if that's feasible while maintaining the versatility that make Surlys so great, though.
> 
> Los


For some reason I thought the non-ops would be shorter when slammed forward in the drops, but it looks like that might not be true. Just measured 17.5" when slammed forward.

imho there is no reason to go shorter. I can pop the front end up at will, and it climbs great. I had a Nimble 9 with very short stays and really didn't like how it climbed at all. Wayyy to easy to get the front wheel off the ground when climbing hard, which meant it was a conscious effort to ensure the front wheel tracked correctly.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

jonshonda said:


> imho there is no reason to go shorter. I can pop the front end up at will, and it climbs great. I had a Nimble 9 with very short stays and really didn't like how it climbed at all. Wayyy to easy to get the front wheel off the ground when climbing hard, which meant it was a conscious effort to ensure the front wheel tracked correctly.


Good points, especially considering your height. I never had any issues with the front end of my Nimble 9 coming up, but then again I only had it as a single speed.

Los


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## AJR730 (Jul 20, 2015)

reamer41 said:


> I've exchanged emails with Bob @ Surly regarding availability of large Krampus and Krampus OPS frames.
> 
> "The Krampus is undergoing some development and will be available again in late October (both complete bikes and framesets). The "Ops" version will no longer be available, just the standard Krampus."
> 
> .


Waiting until Oct might kill me... You gotta keep working him and find out what the changes will be!!


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

jonshonda said:


> For some reason I thought the non-ops would be shorter when slammed forward in the drops, but it looks like that might not be true. Just measured 17.5" when slammed forward.
> 
> imho there is no reason to go shorter. I can pop the front end up at will, and it climbs great. I had a Nimble 9 with very short stays and really didn't like how it climbed at all. Wayyy to easy to get the front wheel off the ground when climbing hard, which meant it was a conscious effort to ensure the front wheel tracked correctly.


It's shorter, even with the new mds chips the original horizontal drops are shorter by several mm. I noted the exact amount at some point then moved on. If the shortest rear Krampus is important to you then it would have to be the green frame.

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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Finally, the maiden voyage of my new Krampus. great day for a ride and the bike was a ton of fun. swapped the tires to DW front and Bomboloni rear, otherwise stock. trail was very muddy, rocky, rooty stuff. got a flat from a thorn but otherwise a perfect day.

the 36t chainring was way to big for the hill/conditions but it will be swapped for a 32t NW. Ghetto tubeless is next, and SLX brakes. when i scrape together a little more money i'll upgrade my lefty fork to PBR, add a P321 clamp and throw it on there. last will be a dropper, then i'll be done.

pics in the wild.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Finally, the maiden voyage of my new Krampus. great day for a ride and the bike was a ton of fun. swapped the tires to DW front and Bomboloni rear, otherwise stock. trail was very muddy, rocky, rooty stuff. got a flat from a thorn but otherwise a perfect day.
> 
> the 36t chainring was way to big for the hill/conditions but it will be swapped for a 32t NW. Ghetto tubeless is next, and SLX brakes. when i scrape together a little more money i'll upgrade my lefty fork to PBR, add a P321 clamp and throw it on there. last will be a dropper, then i'll be done.
> 
> ...


Great pics. Love the 'tire changing' stand!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

What beautiful terrain! yours is 3 weeks younger than mine!!! I would love to go down one of those ski slopes....


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Muirenn said:


> Great pics. Love the 'tire changing' stand!


thanks, the tree beat the 3-4 inches of mud that was all around!



sXeXBMXer said:


> What beautiful terrain! yours is 3 weeks younger than mine!!! I would love to go down one of those ski slopes....


yeah, it's a great place to ride. i have to travel to get there but it's worth it. the climb took a good 1.5+ hours, the descent took maybe 10 minutes and made me pucker a little on a new bike and without suspension.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

*OneSpeed* said:


> thanks, the tree beat the 3-4 inches of mud that was all around!
> 
> yeah, it's a great place to ride. i have to travel to get there but it's worth it. the climb took a good 1.5+ hours, the descent took maybe 10 minutes and made me pucker a little on a new bike and without suspension.


Like that yours is also a Single Speed. My Krampus is my first SS since my used Schwinn Sting Ray in 1976. (My first bike. ). Normally a roadie, or CX, but I wanted a bike that I could just, ride. Anytime. Anywhere. And I love to be off-road. This is also my first mountain bike. Have it set up with 32 X 19. I live at sea-level. Seems like it was a good choice. (Read, 'guess,' I got lucky on my first try. Built it up from a frame set).

Anyway! No mountain bikers here, so no one else to talk about my Surly with.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Took the Krampious out on the local trails and had some fun. I need to look at my front wheel/brakes a bit as I am getting some contact between the spokes and XT brake caliper. 

Its ALWAYS something...I tell ya!


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## bikepunk13 (Mar 27, 2012)

jonshonda said:


> I need to look at my front wheel/brakes a bit as I am getting some contact between the spokes and XT brake caliper.


I went to mount some of the TRP Spyke's this weekend and the spokes on the the front wheel rubbed the caliper. I will have to build up the new wheels and hope the center drilling and higher flange will give me enough clearance.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

jonshonda said:


> For some reason I thought the non-ops would be shorter when slammed forward in the drops, but it looks like that might not be true. Just measured 17.5" when slammed forward.
> 
> imho there is no reason to go shorter. I can pop the front end up at will, and it climbs great. I had a Nimble 9 with very short stays and really didn't like how it climbed at all. Wayyy to easy to get the front wheel off the ground when climbing hard, which meant it was a conscious effort to ensure the front wheel tracked correctly.


Some people will prefer the shorter CS and some won't. The one MTBR member who had a green Krampus then sold it to get the black MDS version sold the MDS version and bought another green frame just to get back the handling of the shorter CS Krampus.

I run my green Krampus as close to slammed as I can with my IGH. With the big wheels and long TT I'll take as short a rear end as I can get to keep it maneuverable.

Surly has posted about a new revised Krampus coming out this fall. I won't be surprised if they move the MDS dropouts up close to the BB so you can have the interchangeable dropout versatility and the shortest practical CS.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

vikb said:


> Some people will prefer the shorter CS and some won't. The one MTBR member who had a green Krampus then sold it to get the black MDS version sold the MDS version and bought another green frame just to get back the handling of the shorter CS Krampus.


that's comforting to hear. there were no XL OPS left when i bought mine, which i wanted, so i ended up with the standard green version. Not a big deal for me, i would prefer TA's, but as long as i can easily convert to SS i'm happy. I can always add a bolt on hub if i feel it's necessary.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

*OneSpeed* said:


> that's comforting to hear. there were no XL OPS left when i bought mine, which i wanted, so i ended up with the standard green version. Not a big deal for me, i would prefer TA's, but as long as i can easily convert to SS i'm happy. I can always add a bolt on hub if i feel it's necessary.


I don't think you lost out getting a green Krampus. I'll keep my frame no matter what comes down the pipe from Surly and other companies in the 29+ world. It's a classic as much anything can be in a niche this new.

That said I'm hopeful Surly's new and improved 2016/17 Krampus is the one to rule them all with a bunch of MDS options that let you adjust CS length as well as run the various hub/axle standards that are available.

Looking at where 29ers are going if Surly doesn't give the MK3 Krampus the ability to run short CS's it's going to end up a dinosaur. If people can select from more than one CS option that would be cool, but one of them needs to be short in the context of bikes like the Stache, Lenz, The Following and the Riot. Not necessarily as short given the size of the 29+, but in that range within the design limits of hardtail 29+.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

bikepunk13 said:


> I went to mount some of the TRP Spyke's this weekend and the spokes on the the front wheel rubbed the caliper. I will have to build up the new wheels and hope the center drilling and higher flange will give me enough clearance.


I have been thinking about going with a Whiskey fork for the front, but that required a new hub for 15TA. I am not sure that a Whiskey would do much, but who doesn't like dreaming about cool new stuff? I am not sure why Surly chose IS mounts instead of PM on the fork, but I will try having the IS mounted faced/shaved down a bit for clearance.

I am really looking into a FS 29+ because I love the feelz that the 29+ gives me. Going down to a 2.4" on my Tallboy just seems silly. Maybe I will pony up for the 2.5" Minion DHF.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

made a couple adjustments and modifications and hit the trail today. set up tires tubeless, removed chain guide and installed 32t NW chainring. did a 21 mile loop with 2,000ft of climbing. absolutely a riot! hilarious!

I got a much better feel for the bike today on my local trails. learned a few things and had a lot of fun. the first section of my ride was very tight, tree lined trails carved into a hillside. the wide bars slowed me to a crawl through much of it. the slacker HTA and wide bars (and possibly a longer wheelbase) make the bike turn slower than my Kona Unit which is snappy by comparison. left that section feeling kind of MEH.

next was another MTB park but more buff trails intended for beginner/intermediate riders with more rock piles, log piles, and a couple small drops. the key here was that the trails were not as tight allowing me to be much more aggressive and free. all of the sudden i realized i was having a lot of fun. the bike just wanted to climb rocks and logs, and so did I.

the frame is STOUT, inspiring confidence on small jumps and drops. there were a couple little step down/drops that i would normally roll down that i found myself hucking over and over while laughing. I could feel the extra heft in the wheels in the climbs. my natural instinct, and legs, want to hammer every climb. this wore off after the first hour or so, the wheels are heavy enough that i just couldn't push as hard as i wanted. I'm not in great shape yet, just surprised how much i noticed it. anyone who says they climb just as fast is full of it.

brakes work great, i have SLX brakes ready to go on but i am not in a hurry, the BB7's are fine for now. Tires were nearly flawless, DW/Bomboloni, my only complaint was that i broke the rear tire loose repeatedly on standing climbs with loose over hard. i need more gear for the punchy climbs, either a 30t chainring, or a 42t on the cassette. the only way for me to make the climbs was to stand. anyway, i think i'm going to flip the Bomboloni around backwards and see if it helps. anyone try that yet?

got over a couple logs on steep climbs that i hadn't made before. also it's worth noting that after i got through that tight section i felt right at home with the wide bars. I have no desire to cut them down, i'll deal with it through the tight stuff because i like it so much everywhere else. by the end of the ride i was used to the way the bike handles. it requires more body english to maneuver. just turns a little slower, it's kind of like turn the bars and wait... ok, now we can carry on. not bad, just different.

all in all tons of fun. looking forward to doing it again soon. sorry for lots of words.

pic time.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

nice trails, where does the power come from for the lights on the bridge?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

lol, all that **** and you notice x-mas lights on a bridge?

there's a restaurant next to it.


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## gregclimbs (Sep 21, 2006)

vikb said:


> Some people will prefer the shorter CS and some won't. The one MTBR member who had a green Krampus then sold it to get the black MDS version sold the MDS version and bought another green frame just to get back the handling of the shorter CS Krampus.


It's my understanding that the both versions have the same max/min cs length. Is there some confirmation that green has shorter cs length? If so, by how much?

Thx,

G


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

So the green Krampus complete comes with a 36 tooth chain ring? ...not 32?


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

*OneSpeed* said:


> made a couple adjustments and modifications and hit the trail today. set up tires tubeless, removed chain guide and installed 32t NW chainring. did a 21 mile loop with 2,000ft of climbing. absolutely a riot! hilarious!
> 
> I got a much better feel for the bike today on my local trails. learned a few things and had a lot of fun. the first section of my ride was very tight, tree lined trails carved into a hillside. the wide bars slowed me to a crawl through much of it. the slacker HTA and wide bars (and possibly a longer wheelbase) make the bike turn slower than my Kona Unit which is snappy by comparison. left that section feeling kind of MEH.
> 
> ...


Sweet pics; sweet bike; sweet trails;

in my first couple rides, I feel like the handle bars were also the hardest thing to get used to. Coming from a very old Trek 830, it is a big change. So far not a big enough one to warrant going smaller yet though.

Great review!


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Afun said:


> So the green Krampus complete comes with a 36 tooth chain ring? ...not 32?


a couple people told me it came with a 36t and i should plan on swapping it. i don't remember exactly who? LBS, friend, someone on here? either way, when i was removing it i noticed it was a 34t. NBD, it needs to be smaller for my trails.



sXeXBMXer said:


> Sweet pics; sweet bike; sweet trails;
> 
> in my first couple rides, I feel like the handle bars were also the hardest thing to get used to. Coming from a very old Trek 830, it is a big change. So far not a big enough one to warrant going smaller yet though.
> 
> Great review!


thanks, this thing is a lot of fun. my impressions were a bit different than other reviews i have read, or others just hadn't commented on certain things that stood out to me. i think starting with knobby tires may be part of it, but no way to know for sure.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

vikb said:


> That said I'm hopeful Surly's new and improved 2016/17 Krampus is the one to rule them all with a bunch of MDS options that let you adjust CS length as well as run the various hub/axle standards that are available.
> 
> Looking at where 29ers are going if Surly doesn't give the MK3 Krampus the ability to run short CS's it's going to end up a dinosaur. If people can select from more than one CS option that would be cool, but one of them needs to be short in the context of bikes like the Stache, Lenz, The Following and the Riot. Not necessarily as short given the size of the 29+, but in that range within the design limits of hardtail 29+.


I agree, they need to at least get it where the MDS chips will allow the same short CS length as you can get on the green one (bare minimum). I'm watching this very closely as with a few subtle changes the Krampus could be my one to rule them all.


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## mbanzi (Oct 24, 2008)

*Surly MDS Chip - 12mm Thru Axle Slotted with Hanger‏*

Anyone know where to find a set of Surly 12mm Thru Axle Slotted with Hanger‏ MDS Chips? I'm not able to find them anywhere locally at dealers or online. Makes me nervous that Surly is getting rid of MDS :eekster:


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

If you had the chance to buy a Krampus at this point would it be the Green or the Black?


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## crankpuller (Feb 27, 2004)

Afun said:


> If you had the chance to buy a Krampus at this point would it be the Green or the Black?


Ops frame in green paint. The horizontal dropouts are a PITA!


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

Last question....once and for all is the Chainstay on the ops version longer than the regular Krampus?


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## AJR730 (Jul 20, 2015)

I spoke with my LBS yesterday who is an Intergalactic dealer. They called QBP and the the word was that there are no forthcoming changes to the Krampus coming this year. This contradicts the info the other member had directly from Surly (that a refreshed version was coming this Oct). I'm hoping this is just a misunderstanding between the QBP rep and Surly!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Afun said:


> If you had the chance to buy a Krampus at this point would it be the Green or the Black?


I'd take a Green



Afun said:


> Last question....once and for all is the Chainstay on the ops version longer than the regular Krampus?


Yes and for this reason.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

AJR730 said:


> I spoke with my LBS yesterday who is an Intergalactic dealer. They called QBP and the the word was that there are no forthcoming changes to the Krampus coming this year. This contradicts the info the other member had directly from Surly (that a refreshed version was coming this Oct). I'm hoping this is just a misunderstanding between the QBP rep and Surly!


All we know for sure is that the green Krampus is history.

Even if Surly announces a new improved Krampus Mk3 at I-Bike this year it could be fall 2017 before you can actually buy one.

There is nothing wrong with looking forward to a new product announcement with hope and optimism because you love the Krampus and an update would be cool, but I sure wouldn't sell my old Krampus or not buy a current one in the hopes of waiting for the next version.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Afun said:


> If you had the chance to buy a Krampus at this point would it be the Green or the Black?


if the OPS was available when i bought mine I would have gone that route. obviously it wasn't a deal breaker or i wouldn't have purchased the green version.



AJR730 said:


> They called QBP and the the word was that there are no forthcoming changes to the Krampus coming this year. This contradicts the info the other member had directly from Surly


i can't figure why would they intentionally sell out of their current lineup with a 6 month gap in production/availability if there were no changes in store? why not just continue selling them if nothing is going to change?

Surly is behaving strangely across the board. i don't know what they have in store but i think there are big changes coming. they've got to have some new cool stuff coming, at least i hope.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Surly is behaving strangely across the board. i don't know what they have in store but i think there are big changes coming. they've got to have some new cool stuff coming, at least i hope.


I agree that something is up.

From talking to the LBS people I know Surly is having a MRSP problem. With other brands offer bikes that compete directly with some of the key niche models [fatbikes & 29+] while offering lower prices and more modern tech the average consumer walking into a LBS isn't choosing the more expensive, heavier Surly. Leaving LBS with too much stock and no desire to order more.

I think this is causing an existential crisis at Surly.

With QBP at their back they aren't going to run out of $$ because of a few bad years, but at the same time QBP isn't going to pump in $$ for laughs. So Surly is going to have to figure out where and how they fit into the market such that they can sell enough bikes to remain viable.

If you look at the Surly Wednesday I think this was the first salvo of newer lower cost bikes coming from Surly.

The other way they could go is fancier tubing more expensive bling bikes. I'm not sure that will happen, but it's the other option.

I was helping my buddy find a Krampus frame and they were literally stacked up at LBS all over the place with shops fighting each other to discount them low enough to get one out the door.

I don't know what's going to happen, but I doubt it's going to be business as usual for Surly.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I think Surly has learned a few hard lessons about getting carried away with their + and fat bikes. Look at all of their stock of Instigators, Pugs, ICT, and now Krampus. They ordered too many and are loosing a lot of $$ and not impressing dealers because of it. 

Having frequent large sales like that will hurt the reputation of a company, and people will wait for or expect a sale from Surly before they buy, which really shouldn't be the case. The + game is booming fast now, and have kinda pushed fat bikes to the side. Lots of people and trends coming into production now, so I am sure the higher ups at Surly will make sure their future products are dialed in before releasing to market. 

With that said I love my Krampus, and don't see myself getting rid of it any time soon. Two things I don't like are the choice of the SLX der vs. a Sram, as the arm on the SLX is RIGHT IN THE FREAKING WAY OF THE HORZ DROPOUT. I also continue to rub the chainstays with the tire when putting the power down..and after speaking with another big user confirmed it not an isolated case.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

jonshonda said:


> Two things I don't like are the choice of the SLX der vs. a Sram, as the arm on the SLX is RIGHT IN THE FREAKING WAY OF THE HORZ DROPOUT.


I'm going to add either a range extender or a complete wide (11-42) cassette which will require the use of a goat link. not sure but i think it will give a little more room to get the wheel in and out of there. and really if it bothers you/me that much it can always be changed.


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## WMBigs (Jul 11, 2009)

It seems to me that the 29+ bikes have not taken off as hoped, but the 27.5+ market is exploding. I wonder if Surly has a 27.5+ in the works and want to deplete the 29+ stock before releasing the 27.5+. I had been thinking of the Krampus for a few years, no stocking dealer here. Test rode the Spec Fuse and went that way.


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## bricke (Jul 23, 2008)




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## benmcgill (Dec 30, 2010)

mbanzi said:


> Anyone know where to find a set of Surly 12mm Thru Axle Slotted with Hanger‏ MDS Chips? I'm not able to find them anywhere locally at dealers or online. Makes me nervous that Surly is getting rid of MDS :eekster:
> 
> View attachment 1065557


Checked with LBS-available 5/31


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## iocopocomaioco (Apr 4, 2016)

finally took a snap after today's ride.

she's a large (all stock) Krampus and wears dirt wizard shoes




























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gregclimbs (Sep 21, 2006)

vikb said:


> Quote Originally Posted by Afun View Post
> Last question....once and for all is the Chainstay on the ops version longer than the regular Krampus?
> 
> Yes and for this reason.


Vik, You keep saying this, but Surly claims both have the same cs length. I wish I had measured the black one when I had one in my shop, but I didn't.

I am pretty sure the cs are essentially identical. Or at a minimum, within a few mm...

If they are significantly different, I am curious by how much.

g


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

If they do update the Krampus, I'm wondering if it will have the same dropout they used on the Wednesday frame? They supposedly learned some things on how to cut production cost on those frames, wonder if that info will be used on the upcoming Krampus as well?


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## pdxfixed (Feb 18, 2016)

One piece of insight about Surly/QBP operations and why they've fallen behind on production is due to changing from using an outside party to source the spec/builds for the bikes to handling all of this stuff in house. They now have a team working in Taiwan with their factories directly as opposed to hiring another company to do this for them.


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## pdxfixed (Feb 18, 2016)

nitrousjunky said:


> If they do update the Krampus, I'm wondering if it will have the same dropout they used on the Wednesday frame? They supposedly learned some things on how to cut production cost on those frames, wonder if that info will be used on the upcoming Krampus as well?


I'd really dig a Krampus that did away with the seat post gusset crap and used the simpler Wednesday dropouts. I'd really dig it if all the Surly's were more like the Wednesday actually...

Surly and Salsa are announcing their new MTB lines at Saddledrive in July so we'll just have to wait and see.


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## defleshed (Oct 2, 2013)

Since I know you live in Canada, do you know where some stock of Krampus frames are in Canada? I was debating getting some 29+ wheels for my Borealis, however a purpose built 29+ as rugged as the krampus has it's upside for extended and abusive tours etc, especially if they are trying to clear them out right now.



vikb said:


> I agree that something is up.
> 
> From talking to the LBS people I know Surly is having a MRSP problem. With other brands offer bikes that compete directly with some of the key niche models [fatbikes & 29+] while offering lower prices and more modern tech the average consumer walking into a LBS isn't choosing the more expensive, heavier Surly. Leaving LBS with too much stock and no desire to order more.
> 
> ...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

defleshed said:


> Since I know you live in Canada, do you know where some stock of Krampus frames are in Canada? I was debating getting some 29+ wheels for my Borealis, however a purpose built 29+ as rugged as the krampus has it's upside for extended and abusive tours etc, especially if they are trying to clear them out right now.


PM Sent


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## AJR730 (Jul 20, 2015)

Surly replied as follows to my email asking about changes and timing (I didn't think they would give any details on the changes but it doesn't hurt to ask):

We are going to be making some changes to the Krampus and it will be largely out of stock until September (give or take.) The exact changes I cannot divulge at this time, but it will still be very close to the current model in fit and performance.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

AJR730 said:


> Surly replied as follows to my email asking about changes and timing (I didn't think they would give any details on the changes but it doesn't hurt to ask):
> 
> We are going to be making some changes to the Krampus and it will be largely out of stock until September (give or take.) The exact changes I cannot divulge at this time, but it will still be very close to the current model in fit and performance.


Good, it doesn't need any big changes IMHO. :thumbsup:


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

First posted pic of my Krampus. Bought it in 2013. It's the sh!t.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

And another pic. Enjoy.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

pulsepro said:


> View attachment 1066299
> 
> 
> First posted pic of my Krampus. Bought it in 2013. It's the sh!t.


Nice!

Is that fork quite a bit longer than the stock rigid fork? Looks raked out a bit.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

The fork is a Manitou Magnum Comp 110 mm travel OEM form a Trek Stach. It is certainly longer A-C than the stock fork. But, once you're above walking speed, there's no wheel flop or raked out feeling. Just super confident monster truck feeling. I really like it. Don't fear the slacker geo (or the reaper).


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## bikepunk13 (Mar 27, 2012)

gregclimbs said:


> I am pretty sure the cs are essentially identical. Or at a minimum, within a few mm...
> 
> If they are significantly different, I am curious by how much.


I have been pretty interested in this my self. It looks like the MDS chips have different axle positions. The 135 QR seems to be the longest and the horizontal shortest (couldn't find a picture of the slotted thru axle).





















Yes, these are different frames but the chips are all the same so the dropout mounts (area where the chips mount/welded cast piece) should be the same on the frames and they do appear to be. Also keeping them the same keeps manufacturing/R&D prices down for Surly. While this doesn't answer chain stay length between the original Krampus and the Ops I still thought it was interesting.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Trying to go off memory here, so take these with a grain of salt. I've only owned the original green frame. 
However IIRC, the horizontal MDS chip is identical with the original green allowing 17.6" at the shortest setting.
Vertical drop MDS is somewhere around 18.1". 
I'm not sure if I've seen anyone post the thru axle MDS CS length, but visually appears to be slightly shorter CS length than the vertical.


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

So the CS length can't be that noticeable between both bikes. Maybe by the time I buy my Krampus the Ops will be sold out and the Green one will be the only one available.


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## bikepunk13 (Mar 27, 2012)

Afun said:


> So the CS length can't be that noticeable between both bikes. Maybe by the time I buy my Krampus the Ops will be sold out and the Green one will be the only one available.


Some people might feel a difference between the QR (longest) and the horizontals all the way forward, but I think the majority of people wouldn't. The bigger thing to me is the ability to use a 142x12 rear on the Ops to stiffen to the back end.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

I did an urban loop along the river today on my "short" chainstay Krampus. a fair amount of pavement between trails, and light single track where it's available. not a lot of climbing, 1,635 ft in 31.6 miles. found some cool new stuff, trails, old growth cemetery's, a couple small parks with a good view of the valley the river has carved out. it was cold, 35 degrees and rained all morning.

pics.







































plus one that shows the new florescent lights installed in the wheels


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## bikepunk13 (Mar 27, 2012)

*OneSpeed* said:


> I did an urban loop along the river today on my "short" chainstay Krampus.


I ride my bike I swear! I did 60 miles over the weekend of road/dirt road mix on my "long" chainstays and it didn't bother me one bit!

Disclaimer: I'm a really bad photographer but the second picture has a bald eagle.


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## gooseberry1 (Mar 16, 2016)

Can't wait to ride the Krampus tonight after pulling the XX1 off the spearfish and putting it on the Surley. So now I have a Krampus with carbon wheels and a XX1 drivetrain so all I need now is carbon seat post and bars. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

It's unbelievable on how I can't decide between both Krampus bikes. Close to a month....its OCD


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Afun said:


> It's unbelievable on how I can't decide between both Krampus bikes. Close to a month....its OCD


Yes. Get the green one.

It's prettier.


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

I have so many cool color schemes for the black one...but only one real color scheme for the green one


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

Oh yeah and the decision on gearing

The green one will get a 30 tooth chain ring with a 11 - 42 cassette...1 x 11 clean pocket but less range

And the black one will get a 22 tooth granny gear with front derailer...2x 11 more range, awesome Surly OD Crank...but crowded pocket


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Afun said:


> I have so many cool color schemes for the black one...but only one real color scheme for the green one


Mine is green with orange accents. Though I haven't done much color, yet.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

Muirenn said:


> Mine is green with orange accents. Though I haven't done much color, yet.


lol,whats that? not much color?


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Afun said:


> It's unbelievable on how I can't decide between both Krampus bikes. Close to a month....its OCD


wait for the new version this fall.


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

Matterhorn said:


> wait for the new version this fall.


That's no fun! I really like both Krampus bikes. It's either a Krampus or my first full suspension bike. Something like a Salsa Horsethief or Pony Rustler. I am also trying to outdo my Ogre which is sweet.


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

I have also been toying around with a belt drive since I saw one a couple of weeks ago, but I think I like my noisy hubs too much. This has an internal gear drive. Super cool bike...


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Planning to upgrade a few things on my Krampus, namely, I want to match existing orange lock-rings on my Odi Grips with an orange crankset and pedals. Maybe a couple of other things. 

I'm trying to decide between Straitline and Raceface Atlas pedals. Straitlines are under $100.00. Atlas's are $150.0 at Jenson. I'm a lot more familiar with Straitline, that is, I've heard more good things about them. The Raceface would match the Turbine Crank I want to buy. 

Anyone know if one is significantly better? No idea which to get. 

Also, if someone has another suggestion of a good, but not overly expensive orange crankset, let me know. My bike is a single-speed with a 32 tooth chainring, and I live at sea-level. 

Maybe I should post this in a different subforum, but not sure where. Figured it wouldn't hurt to hear from my fellow Krampii. You guys have put together some beautiful builds. 

Thanks!


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

check out the race face chester pedals....

i think for an orange crankset your pretty much stuck with trying to find a turbine from race face...


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

hamsterspam said:


> check out the race face chester pedals....
> 
> i think for an orange crankset your pretty much stuck with trying to find a turbine from race face...


I'll check. Just found threads on here about having to rebuild bearings on the Atlas pedals, within a few weeks of purchase. Yeah. No thanks. Oh, the Straitlines are the BMX type. I see they also have DeFacto and Amp. Seems like it was the Amp I heard about before, come to think of it.

Jenson has everything, though the Straitline BMX pedals are on Amazon. looks like the Chesters are the wrong color of orange. Needs to be more metallic.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

not on your list but the spank spike pedals are also nice...
and dont forget your matching diety valve stem caps and wolftooth chainring bolts!
and stem spacers,gotta have those matching too,chris king makes nice ones...and at that point you have to get the chris king headset to match,and really once your that far down the rabbit hole you may as well have a matching bottom bracket and hubs right?
and speaking of krampii and rabbit holes of course your rim strip needs to match,salsa gel handlebar tape works good for that...and how could i forget cable housings? 

lol,have fun with it,embrace the madness!


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

hamsterspam said:


> not on your list but the spank spike pedals are also nice...
> and dont forget your matching diety valve stem caps and wolftooth chainring bolts!
> and stem spacers,gotta have those matching too,chris king makes nice ones...and at that point you have to get the chris king headset to match,and really once your that far down the rabbit hole you may as well have a matching bottom bracket and hubs right?
> and speaking of krampii and rabbit holes of course your rim strip needs to match,salsa gel handlebar tape works good for that...and how could i forget cable housings?
> ...


Exactly!!!

The Mango Chris King Head Set would work, but I'm going to keep CK to a minimum due to $$. The Wolf Tooth bolts are a given.

Thank you for reminding me of the spanks, I knew I'd seen others.

What I really want are orange DMR Vaults, but they are on back-order and pricey. May go ahead and wait on pedals, and get the new crankset etc., now. I'm designing my color-scheme around Odi lock-rings. That's mad. If I get the DMR's, I'll have to get black pins, since they come with blue. I like blue with the Krampus, but don't want to do that.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Not sure how popular DMR Vaults are on this forum, haven't heard much about them, but have wanted some since before I built the Krampus. (Had the Krampus built...).

I'd like just the regular Vaults in orange, they have higher end ones, too. Titanium, etc. They look perfect to me.

DMR Vault Pedals - DMR Bikes


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## crankpuller (Feb 27, 2004)

Muirenn said:


> Planning to upgrade a few things on my Krampus, namely, I want to match existing orange lock-rings on my Odi Grips with an orange crankset and pedals. Maybe a couple of other things.
> 
> I'm trying to decide between Straitline and Raceface Atlas pedals. Straitlines are under $100.00. Atlas's are $150.0 at Jenson. I'm a lot more familiar with Straitline, that is, I've heard more good things about them. The Raceface would match the Turbine Crank I want to buy.
> 
> ...


Blackspire sub4 makes an orange pedal


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Just checking in, another Krampus owner from Colorado here. Currently on the hunt for a suspension fork, thanks to this thread I have a parts list together.


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## Crunch406 (Oct 22, 2012)

lastchance said:


> Just checking in, another Krampus owner from Colorado here. Currently on the hunt for a suspension fork, thanks to this thread I have a parts list together.


Just got mine in yesterday, put it together last night. It already has a Fox 32, and also has the factory fork. Are you a front ranger?


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Crunch406 said:


> Just got mine in yesterday, put it together last night. It already has a Fox 32, and also has the factory fork. Are you a front ranger?


Yes sir. Northern CO. You?

Do you have pics? I've been agonizing over the Fox 32 or 34, 9qr or 15qr. Haha!


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## Crunch406 (Oct 22, 2012)

Denver area. I do have pictures, but this forum doesn't like me, ie- I'm a dork when it comes to posting pics.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Crunch406 said:


> Denver area. I do have pictures, but this forum doesn't like me, ie- I'm a dork when it comes to posting pics.


No worries. Lets ride sometime! Also, if you want to get rid of that fork I'll take it off your hands!


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## Crunch406 (Oct 22, 2012)

New to me Krampus.


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## Crunch406 (Oct 22, 2012)

The clearance is actually better than it looks in the picture. 
Definitely down to ride. Off to Moab with the 'saw next weekend. After that the Krampus will be getting lots of trail time!


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Crunch406 said:


> The clearance is actually better than it looks in the picture.
> Definitely down to ride. Off to Moab with the 'saw next weekend. After that the Krampus will be getting lots of trail time!


Holy ****, that's a DW up front and you have TONS of clearance! That bridge wasn't modified at all, either.

I have the same brakes on my Krampus, hmmm.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Wondering if there are any other women on a Krampus? I originally intended to get a Troll, just a utility bike/sometime trail bike, and found a Krampy frameset new in box on ebay, so built it up. Like it, but didn't really know what kind of bike it was when I bought it. It works, I like bikes that handle well (CAADX CX and Pinarello roadie, both great functionally). 

Seems like this is almost entirely a guy's ride, though. Anyone?


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## bikepunk13 (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm in need of a set of the 12mm thru axle chips. Built some new wheels for my Krampus with a 142x12 rear hub anticipating the release of them. The ETA stock date has now been pushed back (for the second or third time) to 7/22 which is about the time I had planned on starting the Colorado trail. From what I understand the bare frames came with all the chips. I'm hoping someone might have a set they are willing to part with or know where I can get some. Thanks!


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Has anyone tried to fit a RockShox 30 Gold TK by chance? I have a line on one but don't have it in hand to test on a stock RabbitHole yet. Running Knards at the moment on the stock 50mm rim but still debating on saving for a Fox Float 34 or pulling the trigger (and saving a solid amount) on this RS. I'd be stoked because it's a 9QR so nothing else would need to be futzed with.

Thanks.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

I saw a photo of a Recon fork on a Krampus and the dude said it did not fit. May have been on this thread. If it's not gonna fit a Recon, it likely won't fit the fork you're looking at.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Ol' Bromy said:


> I saw a photo of a Recon fork on a Krampus and the dude said it did not fit. May have been on this thread. If it's not gonna fit a Recon, it likely won't fit the fork you're looking at.


I figured as much, I knew about the Recon/Pike poor fit but didn't know how different the 30 Gold TK is from the other cheaper RS models.


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## jdbaum3 (Dec 24, 2015)

Muirenn said:


> Wondering if there are any other women on a Krampus? I originally intended to get a Troll, just a utility bike/sometime trail bike, and found a Krampy frameset new in box on ebay, so built it up. Like it, but didn't really know what kind of bike it was when I bought it. It works, I like bikes that handle well (CAADX CX and Pinarello roadie, both great functionally).
> 
> Seems like this is almost entirely a guy's ride, though. Anyone?


My GF isn't on the forum, but she goes for my Krampus over her own FS 26" or hardtail 29er 9 times out of 10. She loves the confidence and traction.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

I've gotta 2016 Performance Series 32 FLOAT (44mm rake, 100mm travel, 9qr) coming along with a Cane Creek bottom cup for the tapered fork. I'll report back once I have it in hand, should be Friday. 

As far as I know these are just the "stock on XYZ bike brand" Float 32 forks, no fancy Kashima finish and perhaps less control in the dampening/rebound department (?) but otherwise the same as the outta-my-price-range Factory Float 32 jobbies floating around out there new for $700+. 

This is perhaps the least expensive way to get a squishy front end on the Krampus, no hub swap, use of the factory 50mm Rabbit Holes and Ultra hubs, but the CC bottom cup needs to be purchased of course. So, I'm thinking sub-$500 for the setup... We'll see if it all goes as planned.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

lastchance said:


> I've gotta 2016 Performance Series 32 FLOAT (44mm rake, 100mm travel, 9qr) coming along with a Cane Creek bottom cup for the tapered fork. I'll report back once I have it in hand, should be Friday.
> 
> As far as I know these are just the "stock on XYZ bike brand" Float 32 forks, no fancy Kashima finish and perhaps less control in the dampening/rebound department (?) but otherwise the same as the outta-my-price-range Factory Float 32 jobbies floating around out there new for $700+.
> 
> This is perhaps the least expensive way to get a squishy front end on the Krampus, no hub swap, use of the factory 50mm Rabbit Holes and Ultra hubs, but the CC bottom cup needs to be purchased of course. So, I'm thinking sub-$500 for the setup... We'll see if it all goes as planned.


Fork is here, waiting on the bottom headset cup.

A few things:

The inside mount brakes (Avid DB5 on the factory fork) need to be changed to Fox's post mount via 74mm spacing 20mm adapter as my 180mm Centerline rotors aren't anywhere near clearing Fox's standard 160mm spacing.

The factory steerer tube is like 34" long and will need to be cut down (obviously) but I don't want to make a cut until I get sag and spacing dialed in.

Grinding on the arch with a borrowed Dremel today, will post before and after pics. I marked on the fork how much needs to go but it doesn't seem like a ton, most of the rubbage is at the center of the arch, sides have good clearance so I'll leave them be.

Stole a 9QR skewer from my gravel bike to make this one work for the time being, slides right into the Surly Ultra hub no problem, thanks for that Surly.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

hamsterspam said:


> not on your list but the spank spike pedals are also nice...
> and dont forget your matching diety valve stem caps and wolftooth chainring bolts!
> and stem spacers,gotta have those matching too,chris king makes nice ones...and at that point you have to get the chris king headset to match,and really once your that far down the rabbit hole you may as well have a matching bottom bracket and hubs right?
> and speaking of krampii and rabbit holes of course your rim strip needs to match,salsa gel handlebar tape works good for that...and how could i forget cable housings?
> ...


Little update. I ordered and received the Race-Face Turbines in Orange, and Orange Lip Lock seat collar from Salsa. Also on order are DMR Vault Pedals in Lacon, or Oil Slick. Not orange, but they are multi-color. And the wrong color orange next to the orange race-face crank-arms will bother me. The multi-color pedals change in the light, and depending what is next to them.

https://www.google.com/search?q=dmr...ei=5gRLV7V-gdabAYvigpgL#imgrc=2YyKV3KJo1iDCM:

Will post when I get it all together. The Salsa seat-collar is a little too orange-red compared to what I want, but it's impossible to order colors from the internet, and have them all turn out identical. Might replace the silver headset spacers with orange, or maybe green. and may try different pedals in the future. Too much fun.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

welcome to the rabbit hole! one of the shop guys just built some wheels and had red bolts to hold the brake rotors on,now i have toget some in green and red!


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

hamsterspam said:


> welcome to the rabbit hole! one of the shop guys just built some wheels and had red bolts to hold the brake rotors on,now i have toget some in green and red!


Speaking of Rabbit Holes...no rim tape for me. I use Velocity Blunts, for now. 

What do you think of the multi-colored DMR's?


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

i dunno what DMR's are but it only matters if you like it...whatever it takes to keep the pedals moving im all in favor of...i mean having color match OCD aint gonna make the bike faster or anything of the sort,but it does change how you feel about your bike...i know i cant walk by my bikes without gazing adoringly at them and getting psyched about riding them....and in the end i have really solid builds,they arent fancy or lightweight or top-of-the-line-y,but since almost 100% of my rides start and end at my front door what i really wanted was bikes that make it home time after time...


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

My Krampus with new fork installed. Still adjusting to it. Have been on 3 rides and am amazed at how much I was "feathering" the brakes on the rigid for when slowing in rough and rooty corners 









"The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

clydeone said:


> My Krampus with new fork installed. Still adjusting to it. Have been on 3 rides and am amazed at how much I was "feathering" the brakes on the rigid for when slowing in rough and rooty corners
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a fox 27.5+ fork yeah? Could you add some clearance pictures?


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

Nope this is actually a boost 29 fork - I would assume it is the same lowers as the 27.5 + - the clearance on the sides is great and on top is almost nothing - I am running a gravity Vidar on the front tubeless on a rabbit hole 


"The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

hamsterspam said:


> i dunno what DMR's are but it only matters if you like it...whatever it takes to keep the pedals moving im all in favor of...i mean having color match OCD aint gonna make the bike faster or anything of the sort,but it does change how you feel about your bike...i know i cant walk by my bikes without gazing adoringly at them and getting psyched about riding them....and in the end i have really solid builds,they arent fancy or lightweight or top-of-the-line-y,but since almost 100% of my rides start and end at my front door what i really wanted was bikes that make it home time after time...


It's definitely a bike-bling thing. DMR is a UK company, and the reviews on the Vaults are very good. Love the color choices, too. Could have gone with orange or lime green. The ones I got will hopefully match anything. Ordered from Niagara Cycle Works, they are always slow, so don't have them yet.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

clydeone said:


> Nope this is actually a boost 29 fork - I would assume it is the same lowers as the 27.5 + - the clearance on the sides is great and on top is almost nothing - I am running a gravity Vidar on the front tubeless on a rabbit hole
> 
> "The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


How do you like that tire up front? Compared to the Gnard?


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

lastchance said:


> How do you like that tire up front? Compared to the Gnard?


I've been running the Vidar up front for what must be 18 months now and I love it to bits. Much better grip than the Knard, night and day. Better than the Trax Fatty by a significant margin. I've only tried the Chronicle in the rear, but it's a great tire as well, for twice the price.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

hirschmj said:


> I've been running the Vidar up front for what must be 18 months now and I love it to bits. Much better grip than the Knard, night and day. Better than the Trax Fatty by a significant margin. I've only tried the Chronicle in the rear, but it's a great tire as well, for twice the price.


Good to know. I'm not that guy who goes for $$$$ tires because they're light or whatever, I wreck tires often but it's part of being a burly dude in Colorado I guess.


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

lastchance said:


> Good to know. I'm not that guy who goes for $$$$ tires because they're light or whatever, I wreck tires often but it's part of being a burly dude in Colorado I guess.


The vidar's work beautifully in all conditions here in Oregon. I run Vidar front and Knard rear love the combo

"The trick, and oh, what a trick it is, is to remain consciously blind to the danger that surrounds you, and simultaneously hyper-aware of every hard bit of pavement or sharp bit of metal that enters your air space. This is the Zen koan of riding your bicycle on the road." Robot, Red Kite Prayer - rkp.com - October 20, 2011


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

I've been riding the Krampus with Fox fork all week and cannot believe the difference in speed, handling, and increase in fun. For the type of riding I do it was awfully stupid of me to not have gotten a squishy fork earlier.


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## 29ger (Jan 1, 2011)

lastchance said:


> I've been riding the Krampus with Fox fork all week and cannot believe the difference in speed, handling, and increase in fun. For the type of riding I do it was awfully stupid of me to not have gotten a squishy fork earlier.


+1 on that. The Fox 34 27.5+ fork that fits 29+ has been great on my Krampus. I have about 600 miles on it this year, and it's been performing great, although there were places in Moab I wished for dual squish.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Does a non-boost/non+ fox 34 29er fork have the clearance to run 29+ ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

50mm Rabbit hole with Surly Ultra hub wrapped in a Knard (all factory) with a 2016 Fox Float 32 Performance 10mm 9qr (take-off fork, new) works great. 16psi on the tire, running ghetto tubeless.

Like I had mentioned before this is probably the least expensive way to get some squish up front. I've ridden 4 days on this setup, one of which was super muddy and the issues I experienced with the fork mucking up weren't any worse as with the factory fork.

Took a bit of trial and error with where to grind the arch but it's sorted now and probably has 100 miles on it. One thing I did do before painting the area I took down was mark up the raw metal inside of the arch with a Sharpie to see where the tire was making contact under any of the 3 fork squish settings. Also, I used a tungsten-carbide bit that eats the aluminum like it's nothing, not necessarily worth $30 (I work in construction so I had one) but an insane improvement over using a Dremel.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

^ Great info!

I wish at my size I could get away with a cheap fork! My buddy has that 2016 boost fox fork and that thing is just massive regarding clearance. Fox wasn't messing around on that one!


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

installed a couple new parts and did a ride today. review of parts...

Tmars dropper post: pretty solid. install was very strait forward, i ordered cable guides because it didn't come with any. it works great, 3 position, no adjustment necessary out of the box. I ordered the 400mm version and this thing is LONG!! i inserted the entire thing into the seat tube, i was worried i wasn't going to be able to get the saddle low enough at full extension but it's just right. if i was doing it again i would order a 375mm if it was available. (35" inseam on a 21" XL frame) doesn't seem outrageously heavy given the price.

Origin8 cable guides: the cables just snap in the guides, i didn't look at the pics close enough before i bought them, they are not very tight so i added electrical tape to keep them in place for now. I'll come up with a better solution eventually.

Sunrace 11-40t cassette: pretty good for the money. I was torn between a range extending cog and a complete Sunrace cassette. they're about the same price, the cassette was a little cheaper. the largest 6 cogs are grouped into 2 carriers and will not dig into a cassette. the weight was reasonable 383 i think, stock cassette was 355, so not bad. had to turn the limit screw way in (SLX RD) but worked fine. best part is now i can actually make a few of these steep climbs i have here.

the bike continues perform flawlessly. the only mod i have left if the lefty fork, but i have to save up some coin so i can buy the clamp, upgrade to PBR, and re-build the wheel.

couple of ride pics.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Those cheap dropper posts look like shite, no offense. My Krampus came with that same one and I told the dude to put on the stock boring one.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

lastchance said:


> Those cheap dropper posts look like shite, no offense. My Krampus came with that same one and I told the dude to put on the stock boring one.


guess it's a good thing i wasn't seeking your approval on visual appearance.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

*OneSpeed* said:


> guess it's a good thing i wasn't seeking your approval on visual appearance.


There goes my reputation points. :smallviolin:


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## Rubberduckxi (Sep 10, 2015)

Hi 

I am wondering if there are some rigid forks with 15x100 through axle for the Surly Krampus. Don't ask why :nono:, I just want that :thumbsup:.

And if I will once purchase a Krampus, then it has to be the MDS version with which I can run 12x142 in the back.

Hope you have some advise. I would prefer steel forks, with possibilities to mount a front rack and some fenders...


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Rubberduckxi said:


> Hi
> 
> I am wondering if there are some rigid forks with 15x100 through axle for the Surly Krampus. Don't ask why :nono:, I just want that :thumbsup:.
> 
> ...


Yes, but you'll have to build up a new wheel with a different hub to accommodate 15mm.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Rubberduckxi said:


> Hi
> 
> I am wondering if there are some rigid forks with 15x100 through axle for the Surly Krampus. Don't ask why :nono:, I just want that :thumbsup:.
> 
> ...


The Salsa Cromoto Grande is available with a through-axle, but it's a 29er, not a 29+. Its axle-to-crown is 468mm, the Krampus fork is 483mm. The Ice Cream Truck fork is the same length as the Krampus fork and has a through axle, but is obviously a fat bike fork, so....

The Salsa Firestarter carbon fork is TA and the right length, but it's carbon.

Also, are there any MDS Krampus left? They seem to be in short supply.


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## bikepunk13 (Mar 27, 2012)

cjbiker said:


> Also, are there any MDS Krampus left? They seem to be in short supply.


A bunch of the small size but that's it.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Rubberduckxi said:


> Hi
> 
> I am wondering if there are some rigid forks with 15x100 through axle for the Surly Krampus. Don't ask why :nono:, I just want that :thumbsup:.


If we label Krampi like this:

MK1 = green
MK2 = black MDS
MK3 = Fall 2016?

The MK3 Krampus fork is going to be thru-axle. If you can wait for it.

A number of frame builders will build you a custom steel fork to meet your needs.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

vikb said:


> If we label Krampi like this:
> 
> MK1 = green
> MK2 = black MDS
> ...


Interesting... what other changes will we see?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

cjbiker said:


> Interesting... what other changes will we see?


That requires some guessing. The only thing that has been confirmed is the through axle fork.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

The intergalactic shops have had the info since March 15th or April 1st or sometime around then, before I bought mine my dudes were telling me they were getting the DL on the new Krampus and that all stock was being depleted of the older model(s). I had a hard time finding even a L frameset here in CO.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

vikb said:


> If we label Krampi like this:
> 
> MK1 = green
> MK2 = black MDS
> ...


Wonder if it will be boost 110 spacing.......?


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

lastchance said:


> The intergalactic shops have had the info since March 15th or April 1st or sometime around then, before I bought mine my dudes were telling me they were getting the DL on the new Krampus and that all stock was being depleted of the older model(s). I had a hard time finding even a L frameset here in CO.


Yeah. Got mine from an Intergalactic dealer here in town who was saying all of that back in Feb. That is why I got the deal I did on mine. I am sort of glad I got an "MK1" when I did.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Yeah. Got mine from an Intergalactic dealer here in town who was saying all of that back in Feb. That is why I got the deal I did on mine. I am sort of glad I got an "MK1" when I did.


That Bass Boat green is pretty sweet. :thumbsup:


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

vikb said:


> That Bass Boat green is pretty sweet. :thumbsup:


I like it as well, funny looks on the trail pumping around on that thing all the time.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

nitrousjunky said:


> Wonder if it will be boost 110 spacing.......?


I emailed Surly about the changes. They didn't say much but they did reply "no boost."


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

reamer41 said:


> Does a non-boost/non+ fox 34 29er fork have the clearance to run 29+ ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There is a whole thread on which suspension forks work with Krampus out there somewhere. I think it was in the 29er forum (from back before there was a + forum).


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

I hope they do some cool stuff with the new model... Though I love it just the way it is, I suppose if I was nitpicking a tad shorter top tube would fit me better. If I had to only keep one bike forever onwards it would be no question the beastly green Krampus. I happily ride it in ALL places mtb, bike packing, commuting it's so bloody fun.

My interest in the bleeding edge of mtb has taken a serious nose dive since I got this thing and it's been a while now...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

geraldooka said:


> I hope they do some cool stuff with the new model... Though I love it just the way it is, I suppose if I was nitpicking a tad shorter top tube would fit me better. If I had to only keep one bike forever onwards it would be no question the beastly green Krampus. I happily ride it in ALL places mtb, bike packing, commuting it's so bloody fun.
> 
> My interest in the bleeding edge of mtb has taken a serious nose dive since I got this thing and it's been a while now...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


hear, hear. I specifically bought my Krampus to be the last bike I ever need: trails, jump track, commuting, bike packing...in the vast sea of bikes, it was the only one that had all I wanted. the "vibe" of the company was just icing on the cake


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

geraldooka said:


> I hope they do some cool stuff with the new model... Though I love it just the way it is, I suppose if I was nitpicking a tad shorter top tube would fit me better. If I had to only keep one bike forever onwards it would be no question the beastly green Krampus. I happily ride it in ALL places mtb, bike packing, commuting it's so bloody fun.
> 
> My interest in the bleeding edge of mtb has taken a serious nose dive since I got this thing and it's been a while now...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'm also anxious to see the new Krampus, but only out of curiosity. My OG bass boat green Krampus is my favorite bike that I own, as well as the funnest bike I have ever ridden. It turns heads every time I ride it and other riders what to talk about it constantly. It handles the rocky trails that I ride on my 6" travel FS bike without a wimper. I love this surly


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## pdxfixed (Feb 18, 2016)

I really hope the Krampus adopts the frame design elements of the Wednesday, no seat brace, hybrid dropouts, through axle fork, etc.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

pdxfixed said:


> I really hope the Krampus adopts the frame design elements of the Wednesday, no seat brace, hybrid dropouts, through axle fork, etc.


I don't like the rear dropouts on the Wednesday, but I agree with all the other changes. I'd also like to see a Krampus Ops that comes stock with a decent 29+ suspension fork. Oh, and dirt wizards stock. Keep it under $2k, and I'll buy one.


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## Jcl523 (Mar 14, 2015)

I'm thinking about getting a White Bros./MRP carbon rigid fork for my Krampus, but can't decide if I should get QR or 15mm thru. 

A little info......I'm running my Krampus SS with the Rabbit Hole/Knards right now. I also have another set of wheels (Velocity) that I plan to mount my Dirt Wizards on for singletrack....and keep the Knards (and appropiate SS gearing) for an occasional rail trail ride with the wife. I am going to have to change the hub in the front Velocity rim anyway (currently boost, from another build), so I'm not sure if I should put a QR in it or 15mm thru. I suppose the simplest option is to get the QR MRP fork and do the same with Velocity rim, but I wasn't sure if I would regret not going thru axle.........


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Jcl523 said:


> I'm thinking about getting a White Bros./MRP carbon rigid fork for my Krampus, but can't decide if I should get QR or 15mm thru.


If you spending money for a new fork and a new hub anyways I'd get the thru-axle version.


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## Jcl523 (Mar 14, 2015)

vikb said:


> If you spending money for a new fork and a new hub anyways I'd get the thru-axle version.


Thanks for your input!!

That's what I first thought too. But the only thing holding me back is that when I want to switch to the Rabbit Holes to ride rail trails/bike path with the wife, I'll have to swap forks as well. Not a huge deal....as it will only be 6-8 times per year. I just wasn't sure if the benefit of a thru-axle would outweigh the "hassle" of changing forks.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Depending how often you really end up using the 2nd wheelset it might be worth buying 2 new hubs and being done with it. But you can always decide that later.


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## Jcl523 (Mar 14, 2015)

True. Not sure why I didn't think of that.......Lol! Besides, buying a front hub doesn't "sting" a whole lot anyway. 

Thanks again!!


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I've put a Works Components -2 degree headset in on mine with 100mm Floats. The head angle is now at 66.4 degrees. Its an absolute monster truck with the Dirt Wizards. So much fun and scary fast.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

fartymarty said:


> I've put a Works Components -2 degree headset in on mine with 100mm Floats. The head angle is now at 66.4 degrees. Its an absolute monster truck with the Dirt Wizards. So much fun and scary fast.


Well crap, now I need a new headset.

Did it make that much of a difference? Or did you make multiple changes at once?


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

hirschmj said:


> Well crap, now I need a new headset.
> 
> Did it make that much of a difference? Or did you make multiple changes at once?


I only changed the headset. I changed the tyres about 6 weeks ago now. The wheelbase is now at 1170mm so is getting up to a decent length. It is pretty stable at speed and corners pretty well. It wanders a little more on tech climbs but im not overly bothered as I would rather have a bike that decends.

The only thing to watch is stack height. I went from a zero stack Chris King with 4 spacers under the stem to the Works Components headset with no spacers under the stem and the steerer is about 5mm under the top of the stem.

The only thing I may add is a 120mm fork for a bit more squish up front. This will drop the head angle another degree or so which would put it at 65.4 which is getting slack.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

fartymarty said:


> The only thing I may add is a 120mm fork for a bit more squish up front. This will drop the head angle another degree or so which would put it at 65.4 which is getting slack.


Thanks for the info! I've got a Fox 34 set at 130mm on mine and it's pretty much the greatest thing ever. Turns a great bike into a trail-murdering monster truck. Super fun.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

What tyres are you running? Im loving the Dirt Wizards. My mate has a 160mm 26er and gets jealous of how quick the Krampus is through singletrack


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

fartymarty said:


> What tyres are you running? Im loving the Dirt Wizards. My mate has a 160mm 26er and gets jealous of how quick the Krampus is through singletrack


http://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/surly-krampus-802452-71.html#post12661144


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Ive uploaded a few pictures of my Krampus with both Dirt Wizards and 2.4 Onza Ibex. Both are great and have advantages and disadvantages.


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## rmalling (Oct 15, 2005)

Seeking to change my rigid fork on the Krampus to a suspension fork. Too many rough rides lately making me think I want to explore the idea.

Hoping to get some recommendations on forks that will fit size 3.0 tires. I'm wondering if a remote lockout would give my the experience I've enjoyed hammering it out of the saddle.


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## 29ger (Jan 1, 2011)

rmalling said:


> Seeking to change my rigid fork on the Krampus to a suspension fork. Too many rough rides lately making me think I want to explore the idea.
> 
> Hoping to get some recommendations on forks that will fit size 3.0 tires. I'm wondering if a remote lockout would give my the experience I've enjoyed hammering it out of the saddle.


Look up the Fox 34 27.5+ boost version. Fits a 29+ 3.0 knard quite well. Fits lost more if you search the board for what other people have stuffed in it.


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

The Krampus up at 12,000 ft last weekend.
(Its rides like this with 6,000+ feet of climbing why I want the small gear.)


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

drummerdavid said:


> The Krampus up at 12,000 ft last weekend.
> (Its rides like this with 6,000+ feet of climbing why I want the small gear.)


Crested Butte area?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drummerdavid (Jun 13, 2013)

reamer41 said:


> Crested Butte area?...


Between Durango and Silverton.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

drummerdavid said:


> Between Durango and Silverton.


Very nice!

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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

rmalling said:


> Seeking to change my rigid fork on the Krampus to a suspension fork. Too many rough rides lately making me think I want to explore the idea.
> 
> Hoping to get some recommendations on forks that will fit size 3.0 tires. I'm wondering if a remote lockout would give my the experience I've enjoyed hammering it out of the saddle.


I'm running an MRP stage with Dirt Wizards on WTB Scrapers.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Had some fun with the grinch last night. Wish the tire didn't rub the CS soo much though...kinda annoying when grinding out a climb. Other than that I love it.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Took the Surly to Michigan last weekend. Rifle River Recreational Area trails were AWESOME!! Temp was like 60 degrees....Sunday morning...empty trails....smell of white pin and ferns...got a bunch of Pure Michigan dust on it









I have other pix but the site is saying that they are too large to upload ? Near the same size as this one...oh well


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## Crunch406 (Oct 22, 2012)

This might sound ridiculous, but I've found the easiest way to re-size a picture is to text it to myself. I then save it from there, and use it here.

You ride with a very short seat post!?

Nice bike!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Crunch406 said:


> This might sound ridiculous, but I've found the easiest way to re-size a picture is to text it to myself. I then save it from there, and use it here.
> 
> You ride with a very short seat post!?
> 
> Nice bike!


Cool. I might try that.

The seat post is directly influenced by my BMX riding I guess. I don't spend much time on it....I tend to stand and mash going up...and stand and absorb shock going down...I have tried it higher in the past, but it makes me feel all weird and "squished" in the cockpit. I feel less "efficient"


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Per Surly, new Krampus updates are slated for Sept Dirt Demo.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Anyone ride a small Krampus? And if so, did you try a medium? 

Really thinking about possibly switching the small for a medium, eventually, but I'm not sure. I'm 5'7" with a 33.3" inseam, long arms, and have too much seatpost showing. My Jones H loop bars do shorten the reach, and I use a 80 mm 30 degree stem to bring them up and in. I think the ett is 585 on the small, and 609 on the medium. That is only an inch difference. The bike is comfortable and rides well, but it has more spacers than it should, too. I use a zero offset seatpost, so that does bring me forward a lot. 

Anyone have an opinion?


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## mr.linsky (Nov 14, 2013)

*Krampus rebuild*

Been collecting parts to build the Krampus out for longer trips off the beaten path. Very very happy with the Whisky on the front, really smooths out the daily commute.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

Muirenn said:


> Anyone ride a small Krampus? And if so, did you try a medium?
> 
> Really thinking about possibly switching the small for a medium, eventually, but I'm not sure. I'm 5'7" with a 33.3" inseam, long arms, and have too much seatpost showing. My Jones H loop bars do shorten the reach, and I use a 80 mm 30 degree stem to bring them up and in. I think the ett is 585 on the small, and 609 on the medium. That is only an inch difference. The bike is comfortable and rides well, but it has more spacers than it should, too. I use a zero offset seatpost, so that does bring me forward a lot.
> 
> Anyone have an opinion?


Do it! I'm the same height with a shorter inseam and run a 50mm stem (20mm spacer) either with Jones Bend 710 or Stooge Moto 800, love it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Muirenn said:


> Anyone ride a small Krampus? And if so, did you try a medium?
> 
> Really thinking about possibly switching the small for a medium, eventually, but I'm not sure. I'm 5'7" with a 33.3" inseam, long arms, and have too much seatpost showing. My Jones H loop bars do shorten the reach, and I use a 80 mm 30 degree stem to bring them up and in. I think the ett is 585 on the small, and 609 on the medium. That is only an inch difference. The bike is comfortable and rides well, but it has more spacers than it should, too. I use a zero offset seatpost, so that does bring me forward a lot.
> 
> Anyone have an opinion?


Im on a medium. 5'8. Not sure on cycling inseam...
Small felt small to me. 
I'm running loops with the stock stem


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

geraldooka said:


> Do it! I'm the same height with a shorter inseam and run a 50mm stem (20mm spacer) either with Jones Bend 710 or Stooge Moto 800, love it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe I should just get a Jones in a couple of years.  What size Jones? I can't find a geometry chart on their site. (That's a Jones Bend on a Krampus? Or a Jones bike?).


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

The Jones Hbar bend. 


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## kmfarrell18 (Feb 5, 2016)

What type of rack did you mount? I'm looking for options for my Krampus, front and rear racks.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Im 6'1" and am in a large with a 35mm stem. It fits fairly well but could have gone with an XL.


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## bspstp (May 7, 2007)

Just popped in to say, I bought a Krampus a few weeks back, and I can confidently say its the most "capeable" mountain bike I've ever had. My bike history has included going back to about 1992, Trek 6000, GT Avalanche, Klein Attitude, Specialized Enduro, Gary Fisher X caliber, Redline Monocog, 2016 model topfuel 8. It isn't as heavy as you think after you take care of the rotating weight. I went Ghetto tubeless with gorilla tape and the serfas sealant. It scrawls up rooty terrain, and rolls over rocky terrain like no other bike i've ever had. Being rigid it still climbs pretty well. What it loses in quick, punchy accelerations it gives you back in roll coming out of corners with those big tires. Riding in Durango last week it felt like somebody giving you a push after you let the brakes off in a downhill off camber turn. No boost, no proprietary stuff, simple, fun, reliable. Its not a world cup racer, but it will get you through sand. Its not a fat bike, but it is fast enough on trails and roads to not get bored. I can't wait to try it with some 29x2's for some more speed. Surly is so overlooked, I've owned 3 of their bikes, and liked them all I still own a crosscheck as my "roadgrinder" They really do make bikes for the masses.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Get some bouncy forks on the front and the Krampus will get even better.


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## Andrew Kirkwood (Jul 17, 2011)

I wonder if i may request some advice please.

I am about to order a new bike and am torn between the Karate Monkey and Krampus. My riding will be about 70% city and 30% trail. The Krampus is the bike I prefer but I wonder how draggy 3" tyres will be around the town and if I will get fed up with them. I don't really want to invest in a second skinny wheel set if I can help it (I assume Duallys for 3" tyres cannot run skinny 2.4 tyres?)

Also due to the phasing out of the current Krampus I can only get a size XL Ops in black. I am a shade over 6ft2 so imagine this is the one to go for, but from photos I have seen the XL looks absolutely massive! Also, are the chainstays really that much longer on the Ops version so as to be detrimental to handling?

Thanks for any advice.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

If you need the large, either wait for the new bikes to be released, or find a large frame set on eBay. The XL Krampis is supposed to fit someone a lot taller than that, if their size recommendations are accurate.


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## Andrew Kirkwood (Jul 17, 2011)

Muirenn.... now I am really confused as the Surly website lists the following:

5'11 to 6'3 - Large
6'2 up - XL


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Surly's
Geometries
Are all over the place, fit wise. Do you have a bike now? Does it fit? What make and model is the bike? Is there a surly shop you can go to and be sized
Properly so you can buy the right sized bike?


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

If i can see the geometry chart of your Ellsworth Specialist, i can compare it to Krampii geometries. But I'll need the bike's year, too. Companies change there bike's geometries from year to year.


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## Andrew Kirkwood (Jul 17, 2011)

Goodness that's an old profile I have! I now have a large Stanton Slackline, approx year 2012. It is too small for me.

Unfortunately the Surly shop is on the other side of the country so a visit is not possible.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Is that the Stanton Slackline 853, 631, or Ti? 27.5 wheels?


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## Andrew Kirkwood (Jul 17, 2011)

It's 853 26" wheels Muirenn. Thanks.


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## mikeetheviking (Jan 27, 2015)

I have wanted/bought/owned both bikes.....

take this for what it's worth, I sold the KM after it collected dust for 6 months

The KM was great! The Krampus IS WAAAAY BETTER FOR EVERYTHING!!!!

If you think about the only advantage a KM would have would be running skinnier tires
at higher pressures..... but the Krampus can do this too....

fwiw, 29+ tires are still very fast on pavement, especially at higher pressures

I have not once missed my KM...

I have owned my Krampus for over a year now.... Still love it in every way!!!!


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

It looks like their website is showing sizes for only those that remain in-stock. It lists a 16.5 and an 18. Not in S, M, L, etc. I've tried google searches for older models, but this chart looks the same. It appears the Ti version has the same geometry as the 853. Not positive. My suggestion is to email them and ask for a geometry chart for your model, and figure out what size it actually is. Then post it here and I'll compare it to the Krampus geometry.

https://www.stantonbikes.com/product/slackline-ti/

Nice bike, btw!

If you are on the 18", I believe you when you say it doesn't fit. I'm 5'7", and that would fit me. More or less. (But I need a larger bike due to having so much seat post showing on the one that is technically correct for my torso length).

If none of that is going to get you a good answer, my suggestion is to go to as many shops as possible and test some similar geometry mountain bikes, and make note of make and model, then I can compare those geometries to the Krampus. Being in between size guidelines makes it hard to buy online. (I'm between a small and medium). I know a lot of brands list their size smalls as being appropriate for someone 5'3" to 5'9". Those are not even close, obviously. Take your time, and don't buy until you are confident on the size. (And if that slackline is an 18", I might be interested . That's a nice bike.

Suggestion: call Jones Bikes and talk to the guy. Their basic steel diamond frameset isn't too expensive, and he will make sure you have the right size. But it would still help to know what size you are riding now.


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## mikeetheviking (Jan 27, 2015)

Regarding sizing, The Krampus has a relatively long top tube... You could totally rock an XL and take advantage of a larger frame bag option and just use a shorter stem...

I'm 6ft 1in and ride a size L, I use a medium length h-bar stem off a ghost mtb.
I am considering a shorter stem to put me in a more ergonomic position
or maybe even raising my bars up higher for longer days in the saddle...

I use mine for multi-day all day trips, FULLY LOADED


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## mikeetheviking (Jan 27, 2015)

you can run 2.4's on duallys


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Here is a Slackline with 19.5" geometry listed:

https://www.stantonbikes.com/product/slackline-853-next-gen/


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

It depends on your body type at 6'2". I'm 5'11" with shorter inseam and long torso & arms. I had my large Krampus set up with a 75mm stem. 

If I were you, I'd lean toward the XL with a short stem, unless your all legs and short torso & arms.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Andrew Kirkwood said:


> I am about to order a new bike and am torn between the Karate Monkey and Krampus. My riding will be about 70% city and 30% trail. The Krampus is the bike I prefer but I wonder how draggy 3" tyres will be around the town and if I will get fed up with them. I don't really want to invest in a second skinny wheel set if I can help it (I assume Duallys for 3" tyres cannot run skinny 2.4 tyres?)
> 
> Also due to the phasing out of the current Krampus I can only get a size XL Ops in black. I am a shade over 6ft2 so imagine this is the one to go for, but from photos I have seen the XL looks absolutely massive! Also, are the chainstays really that much longer on the Ops version so as to be detrimental to handling?
> 
> Thanks for any advice.


based on your 70/30 ratio i would say the KM is a better choice. i'm curious though, how much time/miles are we talking on the pavement? the Krampus if great, but it's about as far as you can get from a road bike. pavement chews MTB tires faster than slicks, and geo wise your pretty much no better on either so i'd call that a wash. it comes down to how much time your going to spend on the road vs trails, and personal preference.

obviously you are intentionally buying a MTB knowing your going to spend a significant amount of time on pavement, and saw the "two wheelsets" comments coming in advance. and you must realize there are going to be tradeoffs. I'm going to say it anyway, you sound like a good candidate for two wheelsets. you don't have to do it right away. regardless of which bike you choose, you'll form your own opinion on your setup once you ride it for a while.

(FYI you can have good MTN wheels and just buy a cheap, reliable set of road wheels for ~$100-150, tires for $30-40, and a cassette for cheap. they will be way better than MTB wheels/tires for road and won't ruin your knobby tires. you don't need to break the bank for a commuter wheelset. it can be done for well under $200, something to think about.)

your absolutely within the XL frame size. I'm 6'3" on a XL and when i ordered it I expected to have to put a shorter stem on. instead I'm thinking of putting a longer stem on so when i stand and climb the handlebars aren't so far underneath me, but in front instead. if I were you, I'd get the XL no question. the difference in chainstay length is completely inconsequential. a couple MM at best. you'll never know the difference.



Muirenn said:


> The XL Krampis is supposed to fit someone a lot taller than that, if their size recommendations are accurate.


^ this is crap


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

If you are 6'2" definitely get an XL. I am 6'1" and ride a large with a 35mm stem. I could have equally gone XL in terms of top tube as I wouldn't mind another inch in the top tube. The only issue with the XL is standover. It is a lot bigger than L.

I'm running Blunt P35s which are good if you want to run smaller tyres. I am currently running 3" Dirt Wizards which are awesome on dirt but draggy on the road. I ride 90 dirt / 10 road so not an issue. I looked at Duallys but they're heavier and you may have issues with narrower tyres.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Sorry I was talking about a Krampus not a KM. PS the Krampus is an awesome bike.


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

Now the 2017 Karate Monkey is available as 27.5+... I think they will be available later this year. That makes it a little tougher to decide between the two if choosing! You can't go wrong with a Krampus, though. I have seen people run 29er wheels on them, but I don't know why.  The stock Knards do pretty well on pavement, but maybe do wear faster than on dirt. I have 800 miles on my rear tire, probably 500 of that is pavement, riding to the dirt. There is definite wear, might be good for 1200 miles.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Interestingly the KM has a 69 degree head angle where as the Krampus is 69.5. Wheelbase is 1129 KM v 1138 K. Add some bouncy forks and angleset and these numbers change a bit (im now at 1170WB and 66.4 HA). 

I suppose the big advantage of the Krampus is you can run 3" tyres which you cant on the KM. I was running a set of Ibex 29 x 2.4" tyres last winter as the Knards are rubbish in mud (which we get a lot of in the UK) and the 2.4" tyres had acres of mud clearance. Also the Ibex are 900g cf 1000 for a Knard. I am now running 3" Dirt Wizards which are great but heavy (1250g) but I am not sure on the mud clearance once winter comes so may go back to Ibex for winter. Knards are great for general XC riding use but nowhere near as aggressive as a DW or the Ibex if you want to ride hard. 

At the end of the day it depends on what and where you ride. Either way the Krampus is a versatile beast.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Maxxis has just released a 29x3 Minion. I hear these are around 1000g which is fairly light. It will be interesting to see some reviews once they are released.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

fartymarty said:


> Maxxis has just released a 29x3 Minion.


where did you get that info? link?

are they available now?


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

*OneSpeed* said:


> where did you get that info? link?
> 
> are they available now?


Not available yet, sometime this fall. Likely after Interbike, you can see them here - Whistler Village Randoms: Crankworx 2016 - Pinkbike


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

^ thanks. DHR please.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

FoafInTX said:


> Now the 2017 Karate Monkey is available as 27.5+... I think they will be available later this year. That makes it a little tougher to decide between the two if choosing! You can't go wrong with a Krampus, though. I have seen people run 29er wheels on them, but I don't know why.  The stock Knards do pretty well on pavement, but maybe do wear faster than on dirt. I have 800 miles on my rear tire, probably 500 of that is pavement, riding to the dirt. There is definite wear, might be good for 1200 miles.


Re 29er the answer is because you can . That's what makes the Krampus a very special bike. It can accommodate all kinds configurations and riding styles. MTB of course, bike packing yup, commuter you bet, single speed, geared, internal hub, squishy forks or rigid. It's freakin amazing! If I could only afford one bike it'd be this badass ride for sure.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## iforgotmename (Jul 21, 2009)

Andrew Kirkwood said:


> I wonder if i may request some advice please.
> 
> I am about to order a new bike and am torn between the Karate Monkey and Krampus. My riding will be about 70% city and 30% trail. The Krampus is the bike I prefer but I wonder how draggy 3" tyres will be around the town and if I will get fed up with them. I don't really want to invest in a second skinny wheel set if I can help it (I assume Duallys for 3" tyres cannot run skinny 2.4 tyres?)
> 
> ...


 I picked up a brand new Dually wheelset of of ebay cheap...definitely take a look there. As far as road bike performance I was pleased with the krampus on a trip across Ohio, Cleveland to Cinci and back. The Schwalbe Super Moto/Dually combo were fast and pretty light. No regrets about doing the ride on the Krampus


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)




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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

iforgotmename said:


> I picked up a brand new Dually wheelset of of ebay cheap...definitely take a look there. As far as road bike performance I was pleased with the krampus on a trip across Ohio, Cleveland to Cinci and back. The Schwalbe Super Moto/Dually combo were fast and pretty light. No regrets about doing the ride on the Krampus
> View attachment 1089284


What were the specs on that ride? I live in C-Bus and have always wanted to ride across the state? What routes did you take?


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## Guz (Apr 21, 2005)

*Stolen Krampus*

My Krampus was stolen out of my house in Tempe, AZ a few weeks ago. Please let me know if you see it around the interwebs or on the trails. Distinguishing features from a stock Krampus are: orange headset spacers, a Wolf Tooth 32t wide-narrow ring, no chain guide or guard, and SRAM Guide RSC hydraulic brakes.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

I'm in Colorado but will keep an eye out for it, I've never seen one on the trail (I've the same colorway) and would most definitely recognize your ride. Good luck.


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

I have one of the aftermarket black Krampus forks with the extra bosses (Bikeman Surly Krampus 29" Fork 1-1/8" Threadless Black Boss Model with Mounts). I'm looking to order a lightweight lowrider rack for it.

Does anyone know if the Tubus Duo Lowrider will work (tubus - Airy

The Surly front rack weighs 1382 grams, the Duo just 485 grams - any other suggestions for a lighter rack that will fit?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

^ maybe ask in the bike-packing forum?


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

TooSteep said:


> I have one of the aftermarket black Krampus forks with the extra bosses (Bikeman Surly Krampus 29" Fork 1-1/8" Threadless Black Boss Model with Mounts). I'm looking to order a lightweight lowrider rack for it.
> 
> Does anyone know if the Tubus Duo Lowrider will work (tubus - Airy
> 
> The Surly front rack weighs 1382 grams, the Duo just 485 grams - any other suggestions for a lighter rack that will fit?


Looks like a Salsa rack, "should" work. I'm assuming the Krampus and ECR forks have similar boss locations relative to the axle (though the Krampus fork is taller).

Surly Bikes with the other guys? racks | Blog | Surly Bikes

So maybe also see if you can find someone who mounted the desired rack on an ECR.

Tubus provides dimensions. Most importantly, check 143 mm dimension between eyelets against your fork. Also, the 32 mm dimension (though I am sure this can bend slightly like the salsa rack in the surly blog above)
http://www.tubus.com/documents/1442217084_Duo_BM.pdf

https://mrsqueakywheel.wordpress.com/tag/tubus-lowrider/


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

renegade44 said:


> ...
> Tubus provides dimensions. Most importantly, check 143 mm dimension between eyelets against your fork. Also, the 32 mm dimension (though I am sure this can bend slightly like the salsa rack in the surly blog above)
> http://www.tubus.com/documents/1442217084_Duo_BM.pdf


Thanks for that - I just measured the fork, and it is exactly 165mm between the center of the bosses, which is the required dimension for the Duo (143mm looks like the vertical distance). The fork is a little wider than 32mm, ubut it should have some give. Also looks like the Salsa Down Under racks would work as well.

I also just found a reference on the ECR thread saying the Tubus Duo is a no go, but another, more recent post where the guy used spacers to clear the caliper, and it worked for him.

Fitting bikepacking gear on my wife's small Krampus is proving to be something of a challenge. There is a bit under 7" clearance between saddle and tire - I'm also waiting to find out if the new Ortlieb Seat-Pack will clear.


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## belopsky (Aug 21, 2016)

I just build my krampus up w some drops, using BB7 S Road brakes. Any idea if the BB7 S Road can do 180mm rotors? It seems to fit fine upfront (with the adapter that came w the original BB7 S MTN brakes..) but there is some rubbing of the bolts/spacers (the flat/rounded washers)

I have a 0 IS adapter coming so that I can adjust the BB7 S Road with the 160mm front rotor..


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2016)

belopsky said:


> I just build my krampus up w some drops, using BB7 S Road brakes. Any idea if the BB7 S Road can do 180mm rotors? It seems to fit fine upfront (with the adapter that came w the original BB7 S MTN brakes..) but there is some rubbing of the bolts/spacers (the flat/rounded washers)
> 
> I have a 0 IS adapter coming so that I can adjust the BB7 S Road with the 160mm front rotor..


 I've gone all the way to 200mm with BB7s. The roads and mtbs are externally the same, the only difference is the internal cam devices. You can buy a kit and convert them from one to the other, so as long as you have the correct mounts and the frame will accept the diameter, disc clearance isn't an issue.


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## belopsky (Aug 21, 2016)

Forster said:


> I've gone all the way to 200mm with BB7s. The roads and mtbs are externally the same, the only difference is the internal cam devices. You can buy a kit and convert them from one to the other, so as long as you have the correct mounts and the frame will accept the diameter, disc clearance isn't an issue.


OK good to know..it seems like the rotor is rubbing on the adapter - like the tab on the fork is off..


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2016)

I've seen that with Avid adapters too. Recheck the set-up, you may have the adapter backwards.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

There were 3 Krampi ? At my local trails tonight. I was on mine (wishing I had kept it a SS) and I saw 2 others. Too wet for pleasantries or pictures, other than my post ride before hose off.

Got sloppy. by Mike, on Flickr

Got sloppy. by Mike, on Flickr


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

what do you think of the shock?
i have my bluto on my krampus right now,only had a short ride to try it out...im wishing i had left mine singlespeed as well...


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

hamsterspam said:


> what do you think of the shock?
> i have my bluto on my krampus right now,only had a short ride to try it out...im wishing i had left mine singlespeed as well...


Love the MRP. second season on it. Went 1x5 for an upcoming bikepacking trip. Might just out the Rohloff back on for the trip and ditch the derailer. Or go SS.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Saxon Hill pond loop by Mike, on Flickr

Had some issues with the first attempt at 1x5 on a King SS hub. I think I have it dialed now. But riding with gears on my Krampus feels weird now. Gonna leave it setup for my bikepacking trip coming up. Then we'll be back at SS.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

yeah,i dont know why i put the 1x10 back on when i added the bluto to the krampus,i was really digging the krampus as a singlespeed..i love my karate monkey ss but even a 2.4 tire isnt enough to soak up the rocky bits on my old abused joints,the 3 inch tires on the krampus do the trick for me,and at 6'6" and in rocky,sandy desert terrain 29+ works well for me...so ss plus a front shock would really be sweet for the numerous in and outs that could just smash through on the krampus where i would have to pick my way through the chunder on the monkey...
i need to get another wheel with a surly hub so i can run a dos enos on the back since i have to commute to the trails and any gear suitable for the trails is gonna be way too spinny on the road.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

hamsterspam said:


> i need to get another wheel with a surly hub so i can run a dos enos on the back since i have to commute to the trails and any gear suitable for the trails is gonna be way too spinny on the road.


yeah, i am sort of thinking about going 2 king cogs on the back, and or ditch the zee crank and get a double to run 2 rings / 2 cogs, specifically for this.

hmmm.

held up find today, the XTR derailer seems to have more resistance than the short cage road derailer i had on it, and i move the tube wrap on the chain stay to prevent damage that i had from last ride.

After a rainy ride earlier in the week on the 1x5:

Battle damage. Re/wrapped and swapped to an XTR derailer. Probably gonna suck it up and single speed. by Mike, on Flickr

Battle damage. Re/wrapped and swapped to an XTR derailer. Probably gonna suck it up and single speed. by Mike, on Flickr


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## belopsky (Aug 21, 2016)

Forster said:


> I've seen that with Avid adapters too. Recheck the set-up, you may have the adapter backwards.


no, definitely not on backwards..arrow points where it should etc..
waiting on Surly to send a replacement fork


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## belopsky (Aug 21, 2016)

1x5? tell me more


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

hmmm,now you got me thinking..i have a turbine crank that will take a 2x setup,and i have a couple sizes of inner chainrings and cogs,should be able to set up a dinglespeed pretty easy,its half the fun of having a surly in my book,is trying different setups...


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

belopsky said:


> 1x5? tell me more


Low end of a 9spd cassette. I think an 8 or 10spd would work too. On a king hub you need to file away some of the Shimano DRM notch on the inside of the cassette carrier. Then you need to make to fit on the King hub - the guy who set this up used a headset or BB facing tool to machine off some of the carrier shell. Pretty painless - just took some time to face some off, test fit, etc.

I started with a short cage Tiagra road derailleur, wasn't happy with chain slap and damage to my stay, so I swapped to an XTR Rapid Rise or whatever (clicking the shifter makes it move opposite standard setups). I had to get some longer M4 bolts from the hardware store to replace the limit screws. I'm driving it with a Shimano bar end on a Paul Thumbie, indexed.

1x5 Bikepacking Krampus with MRP Stage front end by Mike, on Flickr

Test ride Wednesday, and then the rainy ride on Thursday had lots of chain slap / suck and didn't feel right. XTR rear feels better, and I think it will serve me fine as a quick swap for bikepacking (I could put the Rohloff back on, but don't like it for tech / singletrack riding).

I run 30/20 SS. Im running 30 upfront with an 18 or 19 to 32 rear now.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

hamsterspam said:


> hmmm,now you got me thinking..i have a turbine crank that will take a 2x setup,and i have a couple sizes of inner chainrings and cogs,should be able to set up a dinglespeed pretty easy,its half the fun of having a surly in my book,is trying different setups...


I ran my CrossCheck fixed dingle for a long long time. 
Then I got a soma juice, ran that as a fixed dingle too. And then went SS for awhile. Had a kid to pull around so put 3 rings on the Surly Mr Whirly I had and a parts box front derailer with a Paul Melvin as a tensioner and had a 1x3. Super low for pulling kids uphill into town. Middle for solo trail riding, high for getting around.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

i was running 32/20 but on an absolute black oval,it certainly felt faster than the same gear on the km but left me pushing a few times so at that moment i really wished i had a 22 on the back but of course on the road it was pokey except when climbing of course when its often to big to sit and spin but too small to stand up and climb...i suppose easier to apply more suck-it-up and just tough it out...


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I am also curious about the 1x5 set up. I am guessing it is a more robust set up than say 1x8?


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

fartymarty said:


> I am also curious about the 1x5 set up. I am guessing it is a more robust set up than say 1x8?


It's part of a 9spd cassette with a 9spd chain. It just happens to work out nicely that way due to the way the cassette carrier breaks up the cogs. And it fits on a King SS hub. Only thing robust about it is the wheel itself.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

some reading for those who are curious about putting gears on a SS hub.

Six Speed MTB - Pvdwiki


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

New Krampus = Krampus | Bikes | Surly Bikes

Old Krampus for reference = Krampus | Bikes | Surly Bikes


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

lol,looks like surly got a deal on waterbottle cage bosses!


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

vikb said:


> New Krampus = Krampus | Bikes | Surly Bikes











I wonder how big a fork it can take?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

cjbiker said:


> View attachment 1095313
> 
> 
> I wonder how big a fork it can take?


The stock fork is the same length and HTA is the same within 0.5 deg so you are not going to get a much longer fork on it before the steering gets wacky. I ran a 130mm Fox 34 on the green Krampus and that was probably 10mm more than ideal.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Like the geometry tweaks and glad to see the boost 15x110 fork!


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

1x5 bikepacking Krampus waiting to roll out:

Bikepacking VT by Mike, on Flickr

Thats an MRP stage @ 120 on the front... worked great, although on day 1 I had a little bag rub when I compressed the fork all the way out on a big hit.

Me and my Krampus almost to camp, Leicester Hollow trail, VT

Leicester Hollow by Mike, on Flickr

The new Krampus looks great... small tweaks, and glad to see its being kept alive.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

love: the shorter chainstays, vertical and horizontal dropouts, sunrace 11-42 cassette (way freakin better than the 34:11-36 that came stock on mine!!!!!), run any hub you want!, dropper routing, safe to assume the Salsa rear hub is better than the Shimano POS i killed in two months?.

Hate: Sram *everywhere* instead of Shimano BOO!!, 40mm rims??

jury's out: gnot boost? I'm sure if Surly has it on a couple bikes now it's a good system, just wonder if it's weird or finicky or not awesome long term?


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

Krampus looks sweet! We got some color! Why did they use the ALEX rims....no more rim strip exposed??!

30t chainring / 42 tooth cassette is the way to go! The wheels suck!


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

My take on the "gnot-boost": I've ridden many miles on road bikes with 120 or 126mm rear spacing and 130mm wheels. The first few I went to the trouble of cold-setting the rear triangle. I've also just stuffed the wider wheel in there, and have not had any trouble at all. Many nice steel bikes came set at 132.5mm and were used with 130 or 135mm wheels. No problem.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Is it the same "new" dropout on the Wednesdays?

Doesn't Alex make the Surly rims? That's probably why the Alex rims...


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## PScal (Apr 29, 2010)

It looks like the CS yoke is gone in the new model to allow for the shorter chainstays.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I'm already excited about Gen 3 when they use the now tiny headtube as a seat tube and get rid of the headtube all together. Just weld a 900mm bar in where the ht used to be. 

Does anybody make a 500 mm seatpost? 

Joking aside, the color is cool but I'm glad I got the WED. and didn't wait for this.


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

30 by 11/42, Answer ProTaper bars, 40mm inner rims, salsa thru-axle hubs, Dirt Wizards, flexible dropouts, dropper routing.

I think this is a stock build that I would be happy to recommend to anyone. Does anyone know how easily the MD40 rims set up tubeless?


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## mikeetheviking (Jan 27, 2015)

Perfect.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Krampus Mk2...


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## Haste11 (Jul 5, 2014)

cjbiker said:


> View attachment 1095313
> 
> 
> ?


This great looking bike

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

That candy apple red is lovely.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

dbhammercycle said:


> That candy apple red is lovely.


Does anyone know if that is a flat gloss red, or metallic?

edit: just saw the photo. So not metallic. Correct?


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## mikeetheviking (Jan 27, 2015)

I was wondering also. But it does not look metallic. This is the only area where Surly screwed up lol Red metal flake would have been even more perfect.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

yeah,for surly the colors,aside from the names,are fairly boring this year....but pics are no substitute for seeing it in real life,i saw the new purple karate monkey and its pretty eye catching in person...


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

I like all the changes except the Rabbit Hole rims with a colored rim strip made it unique.

It's either this or the Salsa Woodsmoke for my next buy. Or I may go full custom and get myself an Independent Fab Steel Deluxe.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Afun said:


> I like all the changes except the Rabbit Hole rims with a colored rim strip made it unique.
> 
> It's either this or the Salsa Woodsmoke for my next buy. Or I may go full custom and get myself an Independent Fab Steel Deluxe.


I've never bought a Surly complete so the parts kit is irrelevant to me and you can still buy RH rims.

A Salsa Woodsmoke frame is $2K USD so getting a custom steel frame is not much more and has a number of benefits.


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

vikb said:


> I've never bought a Surly complete so the parts kit is irrelevant to me and you can still buy RH rims.
> 
> A Salsa Woodsmoke frame is $2K USD so getting a custom steel frame is not much more and has a number of benefits.


The Krampus price makes it attractive. It's a great bike, great geometry. I'm trying to do myself a favor and stay away from the 30 pound bikes. I just can't seem to do it. An Indy Fab is going to cost well over 4K for 26lb bike. The Smoke is about 30 pounds and its Carbon. Don't know what happen there. The Krampus is going to be around 30 pounds too. I could save a load of money, but my Pine Mountain is very similar to the Krampus.

Let me say I am 200% sold on the Plus platform. 27.5 or 29er with or without a suspension fork. Climbing on the Rocky and Loose it just amazing. No need for ultra Knkbby tires either. I also enjoy my Urban Assaults in the city. Did about 5 miles with my son on the Handlebars on Sunday...smooth going.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Afun said:


> The Krampus price makes it attractive. It's a great bike, great geometry. I'm trying to do myself a favor and stay away from the 30 pound bikes. I just can't seem to do it. An Indy Fab is going to cost well over 4K for 26lb bike. The Smoke is about 30 pounds and its Carbon. Don't know what happen there. The Krampus is going to be around 30 pounds too. I could save a load of money, but my Pine Mountain is very similar to the Krampus.


The Salsa/Surly complete parts kits are not inspiring. If you want a light bike you need to build it from a frame up. But, ya it won't be cheap.


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

vikb said:


> The Salsa/Surly complete parts kits are not inspiring. If you want a light bike you need to build it from a frame up. But, ya it won't be cheap.


It's not bad complete, but I do end up changing stuff.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Afun said:


> It's not bad complete, but I do end up changing stuff.


If you want a light bike you have no choice. I'd just as soon start from scratch and buy individual parts so I am not tied to any of the stock stuff.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

yup,no more complete bikes for me,i would only consider a frame up build at this point,but the complete bikes i bought certainly allowed me to buy way too many bikes and learn how to work on them with the cheap stuff and actually figure out what genuinely needed to be replaced...but i cant say i actually broke or had any original parts fail,i wore out the deore hubs on the ogre,but that took like 6000 miles...and the krampus bottom bracket got full of gritty water after being submerged for 15 minutes..

i considered a custom or micro brew steel frame,but i really like my surlys,i would hate to get something custom and not want to ride them anymore because they suddenly seemed clunky or ill-made...i still think whichever bike i happen to be riding is my favorite...


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

I agree with everything you said hamsterspam. Surly has made me buy another steel bike because I liked the ride so much. I'm not the biggest or strongest guy out there. I have had great gains on the trail on both of my steel bikes. I just wonder if I lighten the load how much better I Could get in the climbs. I just don't see any light plus platforms. I also need to try some suspension. I absolutely love the rigid stuff, but I also wonder how much faster I could go with some squish.

On another note....have you noticed how Surly's and other similar bikes don't look old with age. Now a days a 2 year old Santa Cruz looks really old because they change up the style so much.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

for sure,i have often wondered what it would be like to ride a lightweight carbon fiber rig because im much more interested in being able to climb well on hard techy stuff than being able to bomb down the same stuff...mainly because im a wuss but that crashing downhill on full squish bikes is for youngsters,not a mildly arthritic 51 year olds...

buts it way more satisfying to crush the people on their fancy once a week ridden carbon fiber rigs on a heavy ass full rigid steel frame bike on some gut punch climb on a 37lb fat bike...

i started doing the strava climbing challenges every month,im much,much better at climbing now...like hugely better.....it requires a ton of road miles to build the endurance,and to learn good climbing technique,and then went back to the trails and started tackling the tougher climbs,but now i can get up nearly anything without feeling like my heart is going to explode,even on the fat bike...that and following matterhorn around,riding with a better rider really helped me a lot...i can actually almost keep up with him now!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

hamsterspam said:


> for sure,i have often wondered what it would be like to ride a lightweight carbon fiber rig because im much more interested in being able to climb well on hard techy stuff than being able to bomb down the same stuff...mainly because im a wuss but that crashing downhill on full squish bikes is for youngsters,not a mildly arthritic 51 year olds...


My carbon 6" travel FS bike is lighter than my Krampus by several pounds. It's a pleasure to ride up and down. If you made me keep only one mountain bike it would be that one. Despite loving my Krampus a lot.

I even tried touring on it this summer and that worked better than I had expected. 

That said I am a mildly arthritic 48yr old so I may out grow such foolishness in time.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

ah,youngster then,you still have some good years left!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Afun said:


> It's either this or the Salsa Woodsmoke for my next buy. Or I may go full custom and get myself an Independent Fab Steel Deluxe.


FWIW one of the main reasons I'm riding a Krampus and not a custom steel bike from a local builder is the constant march of standards in mountain bike parts. If I want to upgrade to common sized dropper and a Boost hub on my Krampus Mk1 it's a lot more reasonable to buy a new Surly frame and sell the old one than a bling custom frame.


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

I'm no geometry expert, so I'll ask here-

How is it that the Krampus has shorter chainstays than an ECR, but has a longer wheelbase than an ECR? Is it because of the longer reach/top-tube length on the Krampus that stretches the wheelbase out?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

NDTransplant said:


> I'm no geometry expert, so I'll ask here-
> 
> How is it that the Krampus has shorter chainstays than an ECR, but has a longer wheelbase than an ECR? Is it because of the longer reach/top-tube length on the Krampus that stretches the wheelbase out?


Lrg Krampus/Lrg ECR

ETT = 25/24.2
CS = 17.1/17.8
WB = 44.8/44.4
R = 17.6/17.1
ST = 16.9/20

The Krampus has a shorter rear end and longer front end, but it's designed to be used with a shorter stem so that balances out. The seat tube is shorter on the Krampus for use with a dropper post.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Krampus also has a steeper seat tube angle included with the longer ETT and 1/2 degree slacker head tube angle. Which all push the front center further forward.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

With the new bent ST it's hard to know how Surly measured the published STA. If two people ride the same size frame with longer and shorter saddle heights they will have two different effective ST angles.


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

OK, thank you. I barely made it through geometry in high school...lol

But it is agreed, generally speaking, that the Krampus, new or old, is more of the 'single-track shredder' than the ECR, which is more
of a 'lumbering along the dirt road/jeep trail' type of bike? Or am I generalizing too much in that assessment?


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

The Krampus certainly is a trail shreader. I'm not an expert on the ECR so can't comment.

But yes longer TT, slacker HA and longer fork gives a longer wheelbase. I have a 100mm squishy fork and -2 degree headset on my Krampus (L) and get a 1170mm wheelbase and 66.4 degree head angle. It's damn fast and stable.

PS not sure on the new Krampus, I miss the seat tube stiffener and metallic green paint. Also not sure how the shorter CS will be for climbing.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

That's why they sent me. I am an expert. (that one is for any fans of Logjammin')

The ECR does indeed do quite well on dirt roads but I've never had issues running mine on rough singletrack. Doesn't allow the same playful style as the Krampus but for bikepacking I've found it to be easy and efficient on all terrain/tracks.


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Any idea when the gnu versions will be available? I could pretty much smash one together with a frame, fork, headset and tires.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Chippertheripper said:


> Any idea when the gnu versions will be available? I could pretty much smash one together with a frame, fork, headset and tires.


No word yet. I'd expect early 2017.


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

NDTransplant said:


> OK, thank you. I barely made it through geometry in high school...lol
> 
> But it is agreed, generally speaking, that the Krampus, new or old, is more of the 'single-track shredder' than the ECR, which is more
> of a 'lumbering along the dirt road/jeep trail' type of bike? Or am I generalizing too much in that assessment?


I think that is a fair statement in general, but it maybe doesn't tell just how much fun an ECR is to ride.  It is like a Land Cruiser. Great for riding anywhere you want. Krampus can cover the same turf, of course. Rider position is the main difference, plus the ECR is amazingly stable. I haven't tried ripping through MTB parks, not much my thing, but I more comfortable leaning this bike in tight turns than my last 29er.


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## NDTransplant (Feb 6, 2012)

That seems to be a common theme when I ask people about the ECR. That uber-stable feeling was the impression I got when test-riding one...in a parking lot...lol

I think there is a place in Phoenix that actually rents ECRs- need to check on that. I would like to try one out on terrain similar to what I actually ride.

My ElMariachi is a very comfortable bike- fit-wise, anyways. Seems to have a skittish nature in the more gnarly terrain. 

I suppose my biggest apprehension is pedaling a bike around that's even heavier than what I have right now. I'm no racer, so that is probably just a preoccupation of mine.

Sorry- this is the KRAMPUS thread. I will shut up about the ECR now.


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## ___Nicholas (Feb 8, 2015)

Got a sweet deal on a closeout Krampus in the Moonlit Swamp colorway from my LBS. Picking it up on Monday. I was torn between a medium and a small but I went with the small -- I'm 5'8" with a 31.5" cycling inseam. Hoping I went with the right size.

I've been riding my local trails on my cyclocross rig so I am super amped to have a bike that's actually made for heavy trail riding.


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## ___Nicholas (Feb 8, 2015)

This bike is a blast! Cruising around the city hopping down stairs and off ledges is too much fun. Still getting used to the weight though -- climbing trails that would normally be pretty easy on me was a bit of a challenge.

Any of you guys using a size small frame for bike packing? I'm concerned that there won't be enough space between my seat and my tire for a saddle pack.

Anyways -- here's a few photos from its maiden voyage:

Next to my girls Surly Straggler 650b

















Couldn't believe I could fit an extra tube into this saddle bag









First upgrades will be some Thomson bits and a 32t chainring to help with those climbs.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Tubes? What are tubes? You'll get use to the weight, it's a trade off for confidence in riding your Krampus like it's a stolen pig.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

You can use a 'normal' 29r tube.


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

___Nicholas said:


> ...
> 
> Any of you guys using a size small frame for bike packing? I'm concerned that there won't be enough space between my seat and my tire for a saddle pack.
> 
> ...


Portland Design Works Bindle: https://ridepdw.com/collections/cargo/products/bindle-rack?variant=24752815937

If you're north of the border, the rack alone is just $70 CDN (~$50 usd) at MEC.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

TooSteep said:


> Portland Design Works Bindle: https://ridepdw.com/collections/cargo/products/bindle-rack?variant=24752815937
> 
> If you're north of the border, the rack alone is just $70 CDN (~$50 usd) at MEC.


Why would you go with the extra cost when you can to this straight up. Have a look at the video.


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

temporoad said:


> Why would you go with the extra cost when you can to this straight up. Have a look at the video.


My wife's small Krampus has a hair under 7" between the tire and saddle rails. The Arkel 15l needs 8". The 9l needs a minimum of 7", so it 'fits' with no clearance. And the Arkel solution at $240 CDN is 50% more expensive than the PDW +Revelate Terrapin solution at ~ $160 CDN.

The Arkel solution is very elegant, and looks much quicker to load/unload. But I don't think it will fit on a small Krampus, unless the Seatpost is well extended.

When I went looking, the 9l (Compact size) Apidura drypacks were the only ones that needed under 7" clearance on their own.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

that's too bad. I know Arkel makes a quality product, I have been using my commuting panniers for 15 years, still in great shape and made in Canada.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

TooSteep said:


> And the Arkel solution at $240 CDN is 50% more expensive than the PDW +Revelate Terrapin solution at ~ $160 CDN.
> 
> The Arkel solution is very elegant, and looks much quicker to load/unload. But I don't think it will fit on a small Krampus, unless the Seatpost is well extended.
> .


Don't forget the extra shipping, I just went to the Revelate Terrapin web page and did the checkout, it is 171 USD which is 227.43 CND plus any brokerage. Yougota watch those imported shipments. PCW + is sold out you will have to see if it is restocked at the same price.

Best


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

The PDW Bindle is $70 CDN at MEC. The Revelate Terrapin drybag is $38 USD. Or $118 USD for both if you buy the bundle from PDW. It is much cheaper than the Arkel solution, and allows you to hard fix how low the bag sits in situations that are cramped for space. 

Sorry for the thread misdirection. Back to the Krampus.


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## Syncro (Apr 20, 2014)

I have almost the exact same measurements. I'm also torn between the small and medium. Why'd you decide on the small? Was the M's top tube height (31.4") uncomfortable?



___Nicholas said:


> Got a sweet deal on a closeout Krampus in the Moonlit Swamp colorway from my LBS. Picking it up on Monday. I was torn between a medium and a small but I went with the small -- I'm 5'8" with a 31.5" cycling inseam. Hoping I went with the right size.
> 
> I've been riding my local trails on my cyclocross rig so I am super amped to have a bike that's actually made for heavy trail riding.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Syncro said:


> I have almost the exact same measurements. I'm also torn between the small and medium. Why'd you decide on the small? Was the M's top tube height (31.4") uncomfortable?


I'm 5'11" with 33" pants inseam and comfortably ride a medium.


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Syncro said:


> I have almost the exact same measurements. I'm also torn between the small and medium. Why'd you decide on the small? Was the M's top tube height (31.4") uncomfortable?


I'm 5'8", 30" pants inseam, don't remember cycling inseam, Medium, right out of the box.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

vikb said:


> I'm 5'11" with 33" pants inseam and comfortably ride a medium.


I'm almost the same measurements as Vik and ride a medium. I'm glad I didn't go with a different size.


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## ___Nicholas (Feb 8, 2015)

Syncro said:


> I have almost the exact same measurements. I'm also torn between the small and medium. Why'd you decide on the small? Was the M's top tube height (31.4") uncomfortable?


I went with the small because I wanted the shorter top tube length. Also, I am only 120lb so I felt a small would feel more nimble and handle better for me. Glad I went with this size. My only complaint is the lack of space for a decent sized frame bag.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Quite torn on the new Krampus. I'd been planning on getting a Woodsmoke next year, but the geometry changes to the Krampus have me second guessing that. I think I'd rather have a steel frame (always been a steel guy,) BSA BB, and Surly vibe (this would be my 4th Surly.)
I demo'ed a large Woodsmoke, and currently ride a medium Advocate Hayduke. I'm leaning towards a large Krampus with a 50mm stem.

Los


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

Sub 5'8" 31" inseam ride a medium. Would buy another medium if I had to do it again. For trail riding the extra room to move around is welcome and for bike packing I'd have an hbar bend on which shortens the reach for comfortable seated pedalling. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Syncro (Apr 20, 2014)

thanks folks. I do plan on bikepacking, so I think I'll go with a medium. Seems like there are more bosses, more frame bag volume, and its easier to run a saddle bag. I'll just have to confirm that the weight distribution is not too goofy on a M.


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## ___Nicholas (Feb 8, 2015)

Threw some Ardent 2.4s on to see how the Krampus handles in "normal 29r" mode. Digging the look of the sidewalls.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Im running Onza Ibex 2.4s






Runs pretty well with the small rubber.


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

sslos said:


> Quite torn on the new Krampus. I'd been planning on getting a Woodsmoke next year, but the geometry changes to the Krampus have me second guessing that. I think I'd rather have a steel frame (always been a steel guy,) BSA BB, and Surly vibe (this would be my 4th Surly.)
> I demo'ed a large Woodsmoke, and currently ride a medium Advocate Hayduke. I'm leaning towards a large Krampus with a 50mm stem.
> 
> Los


How tall and what is your Inseam? Was the Medium woodsmoke too big or too small?


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Afun said:


> How tall and what is your Inseam? Was the Medium woodsmoke too big or too small?


5'11", around 32" actual inseam.
demo'ed a large, and surprisingly it felt pretty good. 
Looking at the geometry chart, I'm not sure I have enough standover for a large Krampus.

Los


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I had the same issue when I bought my frame. I am 6'1" with a 35" inseam (bare feet). The XL has a nice long ETT length but the stand over was too high. I ended up going with a L which is fine for stand over but probably an inch shorter than I would have liked on the ETT.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

I guess I should be fine with the medium, I just liked the longer TT of the large Woodsmoke I demo'ed. A medium Krampus will be almost identical to my Hayduke, which I use a 70mm stem on. 
In addition to the longer TT, I was also hoping for that additional water bottle mount on the seat tube.

Los


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sslos said:


> I guess I should be fine with the medium, I just liked the longer TT of the large Woodsmoke I demo'ed. A medium Krampus will be almost identical to my Hayduke, which I use a 70mm stem on.
> In addition to the longer TT, I was also hoping for that additional water bottle mount on the seat tube.
> 
> Los


If you like the WS better get it. You can armour up a carbon frame to take abuse quite well with protective tape.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Yeah, I'm on the fence. I've never actually owned a carbon frame, always leaned more towards steel. The BSA BB has me looking more towards the Krampus as well. Le sigh...
Either way, it's going to be a while- both are available in the Spring, and I'm healing from serious facial and head trauma from a hit & run commuting home from the shop 4 weeks ago.

Los


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sslos said:


> Yeah, I'm on the fence. I've never actually owned a carbon frame, always leaned more towards steel. The BSA BB has me looking more towards the Krampus as well. Le sigh...


I love my Krampus, but I also have 3yrs on a 6" travel carbon FS enduro rig with carbon cranks, carbon bars and carbon rims. I've beat that bike hard on rocks at home in BC and in the UT and AZ deserts with zero damage or hassles.

It also has a PF92 BB. I'm still on the original one and it's been silent and trouble free.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

vikb said:


> I love my Krampus, but I also have 3yrs on a 6" travel carbon FS enduro rig with carbon cranks, carbon bars and carbon rims. I've beat that bike hard on rocks at home in BC and in the UT and AZ deserts with zero damage or hassles.
> 
> It also has a PF92 BB. I'm still on the original one and it's been silent and trouble free.


Good points. I've wrenched on bikes professionally for 25 years, and the number of manufacturer responsible carbon failures has dropped significantly in that time. And the Wheels Mfg. threaded BB92 on my Hayduke has been completely creak-free.
It's just, well, weird to think of _me_ on cabron fiber!
Wioth all the down time i'm experiencing, I'm overthinking stuff. Hell, I'll prolly just make a spreadsheet to obsess over geometry numbers- then I can truly belong to MTBR!

Los


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

sslos said:


> I guess I should be fine with the medium, I just liked the longer TT of the large Woodsmoke I demo'ed. A medium Krampus will be almost identical to my Hayduke, which I use a 70mm stem on.
> In addition to the longer TT, I was also hoping for that additional water bottle mount on the seat tube.
> 
> Los


Its a bit tiring trying to figure out what's the best size bike without having a demo

QBP has to do a better job incentivizing the bike shops so they could floor their product.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Afun said:


> Its a bit tiring trying to figure out what's the best size bike without having a demo
> 
> QBP has to do a better job incentivizing the bike shops so they could floor their product.


That's a big ask. We have a lot of risk involved when stocking bikes, especially somewhat niche products. Essentially, we're paying interest on bikes that sit there for more than about 90 days, so we tend to fill floor slots with bikes that we know will move. It's a bit of a conundrum- we see that if we have more plus bikes for people to test ride, more will be sold. But for the folks writing the checks, it's a risk.
Increased numbers of demos helps, but then manufacturers/distributors are footing the bill, which has to be made up for somewhere.

Los


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Afun said:


> Its a bit tiring trying to figure out what's the best size bike without having a demo


Just a note about sizing-- if you happen to be 5'17" or taller sizing is easy. First step cross off about 3/4 the bikes you might have wanted because even the XL is too small. Then find the Surly you want, buy a stack of spacers, and instruct your trusted mechanic to leave the steerer comically long. Never once during the process should even consider the possibility of a demo. Bingo! Sizing done.


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

sslos said:


> That's a big ask. We have a lot of risk involved when stocking bikes, especially somewhat niche products. Essentially, we're paying interest on bikes that sit there for more than about 90 days, so we tend to fill floor slots with bikes that we know will move. It's a bit of a conundrum- we see that if we have more plus bikes for people to test ride, more will be sold. But for the folks writing the checks, it's a risk.
> Increased numbers of demos helps, but then manufacturers/distributors are footing the bill, which has to be made up for somewhere.
> 
> Los


I am not asking the bike shop to foot the bill. I am asking the manufacturer to help. Surly, Salsa, Foundry, Heller don't have to be a rare product. They have to be made available to the public. I'm not asking a Trek dealer to carry these products...because if you sell Trek you sell Treks.

If you carry this brand they should help floor the product. I think QBP falls short here.


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## bryanmac (Jul 18, 2012)

In sizing discussion, Im 5'11 with disproportionately long legs and having trouble setting saddle back enough on medium Krampus. Already use 30mm setback seat post and saddle is still almost all the way back on rails. Becomes a problem with bending saddle rails and legs rubbing saddle bags when touring. Thinking of going large frame if anyone has one for sale or wants to trade for medium. Only had it a few months still in new condition.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bryanmac said:


> In sizing discussion, Im 5'11 with disproportionately long legs and having trouble setting saddle back enough on medium Krampus. Already use 30mm setback seat post and saddle is still almost all the way back on rails. Becomes a problem with bending saddle rails and legs rubbing saddle bags when touring. Thinking of going large frame if anyone has one for sale or wants to trade for medium. Only had it a few months still in new condition.


You should set the saddle position relative to the BB. Going to a larger size won't change that in terms of getting the saddle further behind the BB.


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## bryanmac (Jul 18, 2012)

So are you suggesting going from small to x large frame has same aft saddle position relative to BB? I figured with a longer seat tube on a constant rearward angle would put saddle farther behind BB. But again, that being said, Im built weird and have been professionally fit a few times and have saddles slammed back on all my bikes...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bryanmac said:


> So are you suggesting going from small to x large frame has same aft saddle position relative to BB? I figured with a longer seat tube on a constant rearward angle would put saddle farther behind BB. But again, that being said, Im built weird and have been professionally fit a few times and have saddles slammed back on all my bikes...


The back end of all sizes are the same. What changes is how far out front the headtube is. Typically as you go up in frame size the rider's legs are longer and the saddle is higher which results in the saddle being further behind the BB.

But if the same rider just moves up in frame sizes the saddle height doesn't change nor does the position move further rearward. The seat tube may be longer as you go up in sizes, but you'll then have less seatpost exposed and the total length will not change.

If you need the saddle further behind the BB and you want to ride a Krampus you may need a custom seatpost with extra seatback.


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## bryanmac (Jul 18, 2012)

ahhh, makes sense. THanks for the info...


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## jujuyak (Feb 16, 2008)

I've decided to buy a manitou magnum for my krampus. I read the thread on krampus with front suspension. Trying to decide between 100 and 120 mm. Leaning 120 but don't wanna change geometry too much. Open to suggestions...


----------



## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

jujuyak said:


> I've decided to buy a manitou magnum for my krampus. I read the thread on krampus with front suspension. Trying to decide between 100 and 120 mm. Leaning 120 but don't wanna change geometry too much. Open to suggestions...


I'm running a Float 34 100mm and haven't looked back, I don't know that I've ever said to myself "damn, I wish I had an extra 20mm of travel" which probably means something because I ride bumpy, rocky ass Front Range trails a few days a week. I've never bottomed the fork out either, only *really* using about 85-90mm of travel wide open.

The geometry at 100mm seems unchanged for me, though I'm sure someone will chime in and say the Krampus is 120mm corrected, haha!


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## jujuyak (Feb 16, 2008)

Thanks! And I doubt I would notice the difference in travel either.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

jujuyak said:


> Thanks! And I doubt I would notice the difference in travel either.


Where do you live? Do you need the 120mm? Will you be making big moves up/down big features?


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## jujuyak (Feb 16, 2008)

Nah. Live in TN. Looks like the 100 has non sagged A-C of 530. Probably going to go with that one. Thanks


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

👍🏼 good deall


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

fartymarty said:


> I had the same issue when I bought my frame. I am 6'1" with a 35" inseam (bare feet). The XL has a nice long ETT length but the stand over was too high. I ended up going with a L which is fine for stand over but probably an inch shorter than I would have liked on the ETT.


i'm 6'3" and have a 34.5-35" inseam and i have no issue with standover on a XL frame. you may want to check your measurements again?


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

*OneSpeed* said:


> i'm 6'3" and have a 34.5-35" inseam and i have no issue with standover on a XL frame. you may want to check your measurements again?


^agreed.

Why measure standover with barefeet? Do you ride barefooted?


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

jujuyak said:


> I've decided to buy a manitou magnum for my krampus. I read the thread on krampus with front suspension. Trying to decide between 100 and 120 mm. Leaning 120 but don't wanna change geometry too much. Open to suggestions...


I have the 120 on my Krampus. I does change the geo, but not in a bad way.


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## Travolta (Oct 26, 2016)

*my rig*








Been following/lurking this thread for quite some time now.
Build up my own Krampus early this year and can't even express how happy I am with it. Set up as 36/21 SS.

The bike is a pure blast to ride. Traction is unheard of and what was most astonishing to me is how well 3" the tires roll. They eat up small bumps so much that it almost feels like riding on tarmac.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

@lastchance The lemond formula measures inseam with bare feet. I blindly followed it but agree that it should be measurd with riding shoes on to give a more accurate measurement.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

@onespeed I bought the frame second hand. If I was buying new I would have tried both L and XL. The ETT on the XL is nice and long which would have been good. Saying that my L does fit fairly well.


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## Taylor623 (Nov 17, 2016)

Finished my Krampus build just a month or so ago and have been putting some serious miles on it! I love it, it just RIPS!

Medium Frame
120mm Fox 34 27.5+ Fork
DT Swiss 350
Easton Arc 40
QBP Employee Color "Bruised Baby Blue"


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Sharp looking ride, yo.

Los


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Taylor623 said:


> View attachment 1105906
> View attachment 1105907
> 
> 
> ...


OMG!!! LOVE the color!! If I was going to change mine it would be to that...but I also love the green I have


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Also love the colour.


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

3714 posts,, wow !

These Surly Krampus bikes,,, wow,,

Seen one once,
Single speed, 
Big Dude riding It,
Only saw It for a second,
That big dude was fast,
,
,
One of the most beautiful bikes I ever seen, that green was mean


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## GTR-33 (Sep 25, 2008)

fartymarty said:


> @lastchance The lemond formula measures inseam with bare feet. I blindly followed it but agree that it should be measurd with riding shoes on to give a more accurate measurement.


Who cares about standover? How much time do you spend standing over the bike while it's completely upright? Why?

I've ridden all over the place and even when I was a newbie to mountain biking this concept of being able to standover a bike never made any sense to me. It always seems like people have found something totally useless and minuscule to complain about. Standover, weld sizes, seatstay curves, pointy elbows, etc.


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

I racked my Jewels once really hard, On the top tube, I was crashing.
Stand over height was not a factor, never has been for me...

I know how to dismount my bike, doesn't everyone ?


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

yeah. I don't understand the whole "standover" thing either. For me, it is the chainstay length and the TT length more then anything. That is from riding BMX for so long I guess. 

Part of the reason I got a Krampus was b/c of the short rear end...it rides like a BMX to me. I got a medium size, though everyone who fit me said I should have got a large given my height and inseam, but it felt too big for me overall


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've ridden a few bikes where I was literally touching the TT when standing and never hit the "boyz" on the TT when riding or crashing.

The one downside to a high TT for bikepacking is that at the end of a really long day [12hrs+] I get clumsy/tired and throwing a leg over the bike can be a hassle. That said I'm not going to optimize my bike for that relatively rare situation.


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## Drummerboy1975 (Nov 24, 2011)

I need sizing help. I'm 5'9" with a 30" inseem. Will a small Krampus be too small for me?


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

Drummerboy1975 said:


> I need sizing help. I'm 5'9" with a 30" inseem. Will a small Krampus be too small for me?


I am the same height and inseam. I fit a medium Krampus, but I certainly wouldn't want one any bigger. It felt bigger than a medium ECR. I've never tried a small Krampus, but I wondered if I could get by with a small.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

I've got a small, and wish I had a medium. Wanna trade frameset?


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

How long are your arms, Drummerboy? Do you have a mountainbike now? What make, model, and size is it? What is the saddle-height from
The center of the bottom bracket to the top of the saddle? What length stem? Do you use an offset seatpost? If so, is
Your saddle
Pushed all the way back, all the way forward, or in the middle? Did you have a good fitting on that bike? How high are the bars? Are they riser
Bars, do you have a lot of steerer tube exposed with spacers?


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

Drummerboy1975 said:


> I need sizing help. I'm 5'9" with a 30" inseem. Will a small Krampus be too small for me?


Definitely medium


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

Anybody have any new pics from a recent demo? Dying to see some real world pics especially with the steel fork. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Drummerboy1975 (Nov 24, 2011)

So I'm picking up a nice used 2015 Krampus. Yea me! Anyway, what's the lowest pressure you can run in the Knard without pinch flats?


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Drummerboy1975 said:


> So I'm picking up a nice used 2015 Krampus. Yea me! Anyway, what's the lowest pressure you can run in the Knard without pinch flats?


That depends on if you're tubeless, the rim, your terrain, your riding style, your weight. There's a plus tire pressure thread that might get you started near to what's best.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

If you feel the rim hit bottom on a rock/root, you are in jeopardy of getting a pinch flat, or may have already gotten one. You shouldn't be running tubes anyway. But even tubeless if you feel the rim bottom you either need more pressure or to ride lighter.

I did get a Knard when they first came out, and did run a tube, and did also pinch-flat it before setting it up tubeless. I also found that I could not trust it in corners and still have scars on my knee to prove it.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I bent 5-6 big dents out of my rear P35 on my Krampus over the weekend. I have been running it split tube tubeless with a combo of different tyres (including 120tpi Knards) since I got it and never pinch flatted any of the tyres.

Agreed that Knards get a bit squirmy when pushed hard. I'm onto Minion DHR2 now so no longer 29+ but still tons of grip and really agressive. I also have Dirt Wizards for summer but you need some lungs and legs to get those beasts up to speed.


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## Drummerboy1975 (Nov 24, 2011)

I'm 235lbs but I'm not riding like a mad man. An I'm not running g tubeless either.


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## Drummerboy1975 (Nov 24, 2011)

vikb said:


> Krampus Mk2...


I wonder why they did the braze ons that way with the second one on the bottom of the dt? Also, I wonder how heavy those wheels will be? Probably a lot considering the price drop.


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

Drummerboy1975 said:


> I wonder why they did the braze ons that way with the second one on the bottom of the dt? Also, I wonder how heavy those wheels will be? Probably a lot considering the price drop.


I believe that's for dropper routing

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pdxfixed (Feb 18, 2016)

The L/XL frames have an additional bottle mount on the seat tube where there's more room.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Krampus in it's home environs








Snow-bike angel!!








After 2 hours in the snow...


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## Drummerboy1975 (Nov 24, 2011)

Does anyone know if an ECR fork will fit a Krampus?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Drummerboy1975 said:


> Does anyone know if an ECR fork will fit a Krampus?


You can fit an ECR fork to a Krampus, but the ECR fork is 0.6" shorter than the Krampus fork so the HTA will get steeper. If you are talking the new MK3 Krampus the front axle/hub will need conversion to a 9mm QR.

If you just want the brazeons of the ECR fork one of the after market Krampus forks comes with them as well the MK3 Krampus stock fork comes with them.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

vikb said:


> You can fit an ECR fork to a Krampus, but the ECR fork is 0.6" shorter than the Krampus fork so the HTA will get steeper. If you are talking the new MK3 Krampus the front axle/hub will need conversion to a 9mm QR.
> 
> If you just want the brazeons of the ECR fork one of the after market Krampus forks comes with them as well the MK3 Krampus stock fork comes with them.


are the new MK3 forks with the braze ons the same pecs as the old forks?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sXeXBMXer said:


> are the new MK3 forks with the braze ons the same pecs as the old forks?


Same length, but they require a thru-axle and Boost spacing. If you have a front hub that can't be converted from 9mm QR to a thru axle Boost you'll need a new hub/front wheel.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

vikb said:


> Same length, but they require a thru-axle and Boost spacing. If you have a front hub that can't be converted from 9mm QR to a thru axle Boost you'll need a new hub/front wheel.


Cool. thanx for the quick info. In the process of trying to decide whether I want/need front braze ons for packing or not...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Cool. thanx for the quick info. In the process of trying to decide whether I want/need front braze ons for packing or not...


I don't use them. I don't like the weight on my fork or the width when dealing with vegetation/obstacles. If I was going to do a specific road tour with the need to haul even more water than normal I'd just hose clamp the cages to my fork for that ride.

I do like hauling 1.5L of water under the DT. You can do that with hose clamps. I've used that setup and it's been 100% secure on the roughest singletrack I can ride with that bike. Goes on and off in like 5 mins.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

fartymarty said:


> I also have Dirt Wizards for summer but you need some lungs and legs to get those beasts up to speed.


Running 60tpi DWs right now and I 2nd that. They will take a beating all day without getting hurt, but don't roll fast that is for sure.


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## Andrew Kirkwood (Jul 17, 2011)

Hi
I have the chance of buying the last XL Krampus in the UK.... Before I do I would like to ask if anyone has tried 27.5+ with the Krampus? I have heard it can be done, but would like to ask someone with real world experience.
Thanks for any help.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

There are some piccys on the Surly www of someone in Scotland (from memory) with 27.5+. It may also be worth scrolling through the piccys on Pinkbike and mailing the owner.

Worst case if you dont like it you can go 29 and still have a great bike.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Andrew Kirkwood said:


> Hi
> I have the chance of buying the last XL Krampus in the UK.... Before I do I would like to ask if anyone has tried 27.5+ with the Krampus? I have heard it can be done, but would like to ask someone with real world experience.
> Thanks for any help.


someone's probably done it, but depending on your tire choice you will lower the BB quite a bit.

if your riding an XL, you have more to gain from 29+ IMO. huge wheels are awesome! if you want B+ wheels/tires, buy a bike designed for B+.


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## bryanmac (Jul 18, 2012)

Buddy of mine who has thousands of miles on his 29+ tire krampus went to 27+ and really didn't noitice much difference. BB is pretty high on krampus and 27+ have about the same outside tire diameter/bb clrarence as a standard 29" tire so you shouldn't have any problems.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

vikb said:


> I don't use them. I don't like the weight on my fork or the width when dealing with vegetation/obstacles. If I was going to do a specific road tour with the need to haul even more water than normal I'd just hose clamp the cages to my fork for that ride.
> 
> I do like hauling 1.5L of water under the DT. You can do that with hose clamps. I've used that setup and it's been 100% secure on the roughest singletrack I can ride with that bike. Goes on and off in like 5 mins.


Yeah. i don't think I want the weight on the front that way either. I don't mind handlebar bags, but not weight that low.

I like the hose clamp idea tho...something to keep in mind...


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## bryanmac (Jul 18, 2012)

I posted a while back about having fit issues on the krampus with my disproportionately long legs and shorter torso. I've already bent rails on one saddle with it slid all the way back even with 30mm setback seat post. Looking at geometry of the ECR with a 72.5 degree vs mildly steeper 73 degree on krampus seat tube angle, Will half degree make a noticeable difference putting saddle farther behind BB on ECR? ..... reference, Im 5'11 with 34' inseam and because of long TT on krampus and being between sizes, I went with medium. Thanks


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

bryanmac said:


> I posted a while back about having fit issues on the krampus with my disproportionately long legs and shorter torso. I've already bent rails on one saddle with it slid all the way back even with 30mm setback seat post. Looking at geometry of the ECR with a 72.5 degree vs mildly steeper 73 degree on krampus seat tube angle, Will half degree make a noticeable difference putting saddle farther behind BB on ECR? ..... reference, Im 5'11 with 34' inseam and because of long TT on krampus and being between sizes, I went with medium. Thanks


A half degree steeper seat tube will put your saddle 6-7mm more forward.


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## Drummerboy1975 (Nov 24, 2011)

I'm taking ownership of a 2015 Krampus on Thursday!!!!!! Whoo Hoo!!!!!!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Drummerboy1975 said:


> I'm taking ownership of a 2015 Krampus on Thursday!!!!!! Whoo Hoo!!!!!!


another drummer with a 2015!!! you will love it!


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## Drummerboy1975 (Nov 24, 2011)

I got it in today, built it up and I LOVE IT! I'm hoping to take it out in the morning, weather permitting.


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2016)

Drummerboy1975 said:


> I got it in today, built it up and I LOVE IT! I'm hoping to take it out in the morning, weather permitting.


 Tornados in the forecast? Krampus doesn't care about the weather.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Drummerboy1975 said:


> I got it in today, built it up and I LOVE IT! I'm hoping to take it out in the morning, weather permitting.


Weather permitting? My guy is good in ALL environments::thumbsup:

Summer in Michigan








Fall in Columbus








(Rare) Winter in Columbus








hope your first ride is good!


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## Drummerboy1975 (Nov 24, 2011)

Can I join the club?

I just took ownership of the sweet 2015 Krampus today. Very happy with it. Hoping to take it on an actual ride tomorrow, weather permitting.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Drummerboy1975 said:


> Can I join the club?
> 
> I just took ownership of the sweet 2015 Krampus today. Very happy with it. Hoping to take it on an actual ride tomorrow, weather permitting.


so funny how I own the exact same bike, but I look at your pix and go..."cool. I am jealous" New Bike Day is the best!


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

How low do you run your Knards in the snow? And, Knards don't seem great in the snow... what do you like that gives a better bite and isn't as subject to lateral slipping?


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

I run them at around 17psi all the time. The snow was moderately wet that day so I was still going though down to mud in most places..

and you are right. All of my wipeouts were in sharper cornering situations. I was not expecting the Knards to be the best tire for that kind of thing, but they were fine when I was rolling in most other situations. I also had some spin outs when climbing a few of the steeper spots. I just wanted to get out and ride. They were fine on that gravel loop that was snow covered, and they seemed to shed the snow pretty well. It also didn't help that the snow was over trails that were covered in loose wet leaves.

I am also looking for tires that would work better in the snow, but I don't know if I want to go to studded tires. I feel like I need less knobs, but longer knobs. I will get back if I come across any brands that stick out.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Anyone know what the smallest Q factor crankset you can run on a Krampus? Looking into getting one of the 2017's and wondering if a 168 q XX1 would work.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

I ran about 11 psi in the front and 13 in the back today (mine are 27tpi). The snow has melted and frozen again, which makes it crunchy, bumpy and slick in most places. The biggest trick is staying off of the sides of the trail, where the lack of aggressive traction on the Knards comes into play. Very quickly you slide down that sidewall and your front tire is out from under you. My friend on 4.7s didn't have nearly the same trouble -- It was a skill-builder ride. 

But, mostly it was a blast, and a great way to spend a couple of hours this morning!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Magicscreen said:


> I ran about 11 psi in the front and 13 in the back today (mine are 27tpi). The snow has melted and frozen again, which makes it crunchy, bumpy and slick in most places. The biggest trick is staying off of the sides of the trail, where the lack of aggressive traction on the Knards comes into play. Very quickly you slide down that sidewall and your front tire is out from under you. My friend on 4.7s didn't have nearly the same trouble -- It was a skill-builder ride.
> 
> But, mostly it was a blast, and a great way to spend a couple of hours this morning!


I hear ya. I am going out tomorrow and there is no more snow...just mud and leaves. Funny that your front was spinning out, for me it was the back, but it was probably b/c of how I was shifting my weight and pedaling through the turns like normal. I was running closer to 11-and 12 this summer and it was too soft for me. I feel like between 17-20 is the best psi for me. Rode in some sandy conditions up in Michigan and the 17-20 felt fine

I did a little search tonight before my step sons hockey game and I didn't come across many answers for a good 3" without studs. Will do a more extensive search tonight. We probably won't see much more snow here in Central Ohio since we tens to mostly have rainy. muddy winter anymore. 20 miles north, and they get snow. We get rain. Sux.


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## nimm_zwei (Dec 28, 2005)

I’m now torn between the new Krampus and the new-ish 27,5×3.8 platform (see Rocky Mountain Suzi Q or Trek Farley). I’m not into bikepacking/wilderness/ adventure etc. so much, but rather simple trail riding all year long, including winter. Yesterday 29+ seemed perfect for that, but now I find the 27,5×3.8 concept (let’s call it a faster fatbike) very tempting and perhaps optimal for the said purpose. Where am I going wrong?


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

nimm_zwei said:


> I'm now torn between the new Krampus and the new-ish 27,5×3.8 platform (see Rocky Mountain Suzi Q or Trek Farley). I'm not into bikepacking/wilderness/ adventure etc. so much, but rather simple trail riding all year long, including winter. Yesterday 29+ seemed perfect for that, but now I find the 27,5×3.8 concept (let's call it a faster fatbike) very tempting and perhaps optimal for the said purpose. Where am I going wrong?


If you want to ride on fatbike-groomed trails then most places will not allow bikes with less than 3.8 tires. 
I would say get the 27.5 fat for all year riding, for better snow riding while being quicker than a Krampus.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

I just wanted to throw this out there in regards to tires - a 2.4 29er tire will fit the stock 50mm Rabbit Holes, which isn't a revelation as it's on the Surly website but I didn't know realize (or think about doing so) the tire can be sized down before last week.

I'm running a Conti Mountain King II 2.4 on the rear, tubeless. No issues with the tubeless setup, bead seated nicely, etc. I don't have my replacement digital caliper yet but will take some measurements once it shows up.

My reason behind the switch - I was missing the twitchy sketchiness, the responsiveness of a smaller tire. I've been riding the Krampus for less than a year and found myself wanting more from the bike than just it's bulldozer etiquette on the trail, it's lumpy floatiness began to send me to the bike shop to look at other ride options... Which is not fair because the Krampus is 90% of what I want in a bike (after adding a Fox Float 32).

I've not trail tested yet but will be out Friday to see how it goes, mostly to see if I've wasted an hour setting this thing up on a 2.4 tire to find the BB is dumped on the ground and pedal strike has actually become an issue.

I have a few other plans for setup if I'm not digging this, they're something like: 2.4 rear + 2.4 front with Fox Float, 2.4 rear + 3.0 front with Fox Float, 2.4 rear + 2.4 front with rigid fork, blah blah blah. Currently at 2.4 rear + 3.0 front with rigid fork, we'll see how that feels in the AM. 




















Yes, there's magically an incredible amount of space at the stays.


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## Drummerboy1975 (Nov 24, 2011)

How bad is chain slap on these here bikes? I haven't put any type of chainstay protector on but, I'm wondering if I should?


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Drummerboy1975 said:


> How bad is chain slap on these here bikes? I haven't put any type of chainstay protector on but, I'm wondering if I should?


Hmmm...something I have never worried about on any bike so I don't know. I will look tomorrow when I ride to see....


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

I've never noticed any slap on my Krampus.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Just buy a knockoff Lizard Skin neoprene chain thing and never ever ever ever think about chain slap again.


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## Adam Moyers (Sep 26, 2016)

LBS says no 2017 Krampus until April? Is that what everyone is hearing?


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## islander (Jan 21, 2004)

Been seeing the Krampus tomfoolery and grins growing far and wide so figured it was time to pick one up to replace my outgoing hardtail. Then I realized the new Boosted one was months away and had a massive price jump....and that the green ones were becoming scarce. Luckily VikB tracked down a lead on a complete Large left in stock at a shop :thumbsup::thumbsup:. I didn't hesitate and yesterday I go the call that it was at the bus depot ready for pickup. My 3rd Surly after 2 KM's. I've got to rust-proof it, re-build the back wheel with a Hope hub and 40t GC, swap the stock tires for 120tpi Knards, and convert them to tubeless. Then I'll move across some old SLX brakes I have in the bin and post some pics. Have the Viscacha seatbag and handlebar harness ready to go, but still need to track down a framebag so send me a DM if you have one to sell. 

Keep posting up these great Swamplit pics and misadventures in all things Krampus!


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## Drummerboy1975 (Nov 24, 2011)

Currently my Krampus is set up to run the rear axle at the halfway point in the drop out. For ease of use, especially if I flat, I was thinking I st mine up to run with the rear, wheel allthebway forward. How short do I need my chain, in order to accomplish this and have enough chain to set my rear derailleur correctly?


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

I've always ridden my rear wheel slammed, only drivetrain mods are: ditched the chain guide and replaced the factory ring with a narrow-wide. Literally a life changer/saver.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Adam Moyers said:


> LBS says no 2017 Krampus until April? Is that what everyone is hearing?


QBP says April 15th, and Surly also told me mid April as well.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Measurements on the stock 50mm RH setup tubeless: 

Knard 3.0 at sidewall: 78.5mm @ 12psi
Knard 3.0 at widest tread: 80.2mm @ 12psi
Knard 3.0 + RH from side/total height: 86.7mm @ 12psi

MKII 2.4 at sidewall: 64.5mm @ 25psi
MKII 2.4 at widest tread: 57.7mm @ 25psi
MKII 2.4 + RH from side/total height: 75.4mm @ 25psi

I suppose by these numbers my BB dropped almost 1/2", I'll see if it's noticeable when I'm out on the trail Monday.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Official report on 2.4 29er tires on the Krampus: 

I did experience a bit of pedal strike but I also could've just been being careless, hard to say. 

The bike behaves 100% differently now, on a 2.4 tire the Krampus becomes so much more agile, it is after all just a regular hardtail 29er now. I don't know how much is *actual* change from dropping weight, rolling resistance, etc. or if it's just mentally not seeing a huge tire under-bike that gives me these feelings. 

I most definitely had to be more careful about choosing lines (rather than just bouncing/popping through rocky sections) but the acceleration is there in a big way, so is the responsiveness up front, so so so much easier to get this thing corrected and quickly adjusted to changing conditions. 

I'm sold. Sorry 3.0 tires.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

lastchance, I have been running 2.9x2.4s for a while now. I had Onza Ibex (F+R) which were nice for summer and quite fast rolling and have just switched to 2.4 Wide Track Minion DHR2's (F+R) which are supposed to be amazing for braking (i've not tested on dirt yet but roll fairly well).

I have them on P35s and they have a nice profile.

I had some 60tpi Dirt Wizards and 120tpi Knards before that. The Dirt Wizards are amazing but heavy. The Knards are nice and fast but not too agressive.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

fartymarty said:


> lastchance, I have been running 2.9x2.4s for a while now. I had Onza Ibex (F+R) which were nice for summer and quite fast rolling and have just switched to 2.4 Wide Track Minion DHR2's (F+R) which are supposed to be amazing for braking (i've not tested on dirt yet but roll fairly well).
> 
> I have them on P35s and they have a nice profile.
> 
> I had some 60tpi Dirt Wizards and 120tpi Knards before that. The Dirt Wizards are amazing but heavy. The Knards are nice and fast but not too agressive.


Yeah, I've ridden a bunch of combinations on this thing but one thing I'm certain of - running a suspension fork is an absolute must. This big full rigid for my style of riding is too uncomfortable, it's just an awful ride for the trails where I'm at.

I have a set of the cheap Knards, a set of Chronicles (which are by far the best plus tire on the market), and a 120tpi DW. Still, none of them are my bag, like the 2.4 too much.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

A bouncy fork is a definite must if you want to ride it aggressively. For bikepacking etc I probably wouldn't bother.

The 60tpi DW are worth a try as they have stiffer side walls. They are 1300g a tyre though so take some effort to get up to speed but once you're rolling they're great. 

I am waiting for a good aggressive 2.6" tyre - Minion DHF or R2 in a sensible casing. The 2.4 Minion DHR2 I just put on were 900ish grams so another 100g isn't going to break the bank.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

fartymarty said:


> A bouncy fork is a definite must if you want to ride it aggressively. For bikepacking etc I probably wouldn't bother.
> 
> The 60tpi DW are worth a try as they have stiffer side walls. They are 1300g a tyre though so take some effort to get up to speed but once you're rolling they're great.
> 
> I am waiting for a good aggressive 2.6" tyre - Minion DHF or R2 in a sensible casing. The 2.4 Minion DHR2 I just put on were 900ish grams so another 100g isn't going to break the bank.


Yeah, here in CO I ride hard (nothing DH or enduro but aggressive trails) so a fork with some squish up front is mandatory.

I ran a 120tpi DW tubeless and blew it up in the first day I rode it, found out from Surly they're not supposed to be ran tubeless... Bummer. It doesn't seat properly without a tube but with a tube at 15-20psi it's totally fine.

The weight difference for me going from a 27tpi Knard to the MKII is decent, though I don't really care about savings it's pretty significant when you factor in how much less Stan's the 2.4 tire takes. I believe the MKII is ~885g and the Knard is ~1240g, factor in at a minimum 2oz less per wheel of Stan's and you're looking at 400g++ per wheel LESS, that's nearly a pound per wheel. Crazy.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

lastchance said:


> Yeah, here in CO I ride hard (nothing DH or enduro but aggressive trails) so a fork with some squish up front is *preferred*.
> 
> I ran a 120tpi DW tubeless and blew it up in the first day I rode it, found out from Surly they're not supposed to be ran tubeless... Bummer. It doesn't seat properly without a tube but with a tube at 15-20psi it's totally fine.


I have a 120 DW on the front of my Krampus and it's set up tubeless no problem. (using a tube or not will not change where the tire lands on the rim. it will seat just fine). I've mounted at least a dozen Surly tires tubeless and never had any issues with them even though they're not "TR".


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

*OneSpeed* said:


> I have a 120 DW on the front of my Krampus and it's set up tubeless no problem. (using a tube or not will not change where the tire lands on the rim. it will seat just fine). I've mounted at least a dozen Surly tires tubeless and never had any issues with them even though they're not "TR".


+1 - I've run several 120 tpi Knards tubeless with no issues despite the fact they are not "tubeless" tires.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Then I was told by one of the grumps at Surly it shouldn't have been setup tubeless for "insurance" reasons. 😐


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

lastchance said:


> Yeah, I've ridden a bunch of combinations on this thing but one thing I'm certain of - running a suspension fork is an absolute must. This big full rigid for my style of riding is too uncomfortable, it's just an awful ride for the trails where I'm at.
> 
> I have a set of the cheap Knards, a set of Chronicles (which are by far the best plus tire on the market), and a 120tpi DW. Still, none of them are my bag, like the 2.4 too much.


Wow! Never heard anyone say Chronicles are tops. I've got a set and find the traction unimpressive. I haven't tried any other + tires yet, tho.

I like the plus tires on the hardtail a lot. I've got 2.4s on my FS bike. But I am not putting 2.4s on the hardtail. Ever. And agreed on the sus fork. 
Maybe I've just gotten old...

(Full disclosure: I have a Gnarvester not a Krampus.)


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

reamer41 said:


> Wow! Never heard anyone say Chronicles are tops. I've got a set and find the traction unimpressive. I haven't tried any other + tires yet, tho.
> 
> I like the plus tires on the hardtail a lot. I've got 2.4s on my FS bike. But I am not putting 2.4s on the hardtail. Ever. And agreed on the sus fork.
> Maybe I've just gotten old...
> ...


The Chrons are amazing, if I go back to 3.0 it'll be both front and rear those things.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

+1 on non-tubeless tubeless. I have run lots of non tubeless tyres (and rims) tubeless for the last 5-6 years. I use split tubes (ghetto). I have had a couple of kevlar / folding bead tyres blow off the rim but they were quite old tyres or were over inflated (+50 psi). Other than that I have had no issues.

I guess this is why Surly recommend not using their tyres as tubeless esp the kevlar / folding bead tyres.


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## Jcl523 (Mar 14, 2015)

Just a heads up.....

I will be posting my large Krampus (moonlit swamp) frame and fork in the classifieds soon. Hopefully this weekend. I just need to get some better pics. If anyone is interested, feel free to shoot me a pm.


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

nimm_zwei said:


> I'm now torn between the new Krampus and the new-ish 27,5×3.8 platform (see Rocky Mountain Suzi Q or Trek Farley). I'm not into bikepacking/wilderness/ adventure etc. so much, but rather simple trail riding all year long, including winter. Yesterday 29+ seemed perfect for that, but now I find the 27,5×3.8 concept (let's call it a faster fatbike) very tempting and perhaps optimal for the said purpose. Where am I going wrong?


That format has intrigued me, also. It looks like 29+'s big brother! I don't know that I have a good reason to go full fat from 29+, but it just looks right. Owners seem happy, some even say it compares well to or better than 26x5" in all but deepest sand conditions.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

nimm_zwei said:


> I'm now torn between the new Krampus and the new-ish 27,5×3.8 platform (see Rocky Mountain Suzi Q or Trek Farley). I'm not into bikepacking/wilderness/ adventure etc. so much, but rather simple trail riding all year long, including winter. Yesterday 29+ seemed perfect for that, but now I find the 27,5×3.8 concept (let's call it a faster fatbike) very tempting and perhaps optimal for the said purpose. Where am I going wrong?


At the end of the day where is total outside circumference on a 27.5x3.8 vs 29x3.0? Buying into the new formats is always sketchy for me, the lack of parts and interchange just isn't worth the latest trend. What's wrong with 27.5+ for you? I find 3.0 tire in both 27.5 and 29 more than enough for prime snow trail riding.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

FoafInTX said:


> That format has intrigued me, also. It looks like 29+'s big brother! I don't know that I have a good reason to go full fat from 29+, but it just looks right. Owners seem happy, some even say it compares well to or better than 26x5" in all but deepest sand conditions.


29+ doesn't have a big brother! I can ride, with a touch more effort in deep sand, nearly anywhere a full fatty goes only way faster. 29 x 3.25 on 50mm rims has been an unstoppable combo for me. No snow here though so can't comment on that nonsense.

If I go back to fat it will surely be 27.4 x 4.0. No hurry to do that.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

It's the snow (and sketchy ice) that has me on 4.8 over the 3.0. Our ride today along frozen beach I couldn't have done on the Krampus.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Matterhorn said:


> 29+ doesn't have a big brother! I can ride, with a touch more effort in deep sand, nearly anywhere a full fatty goes only way faster. 29 x 3.25 on 50mm rims has been an unstoppable combo for me. No snow here though so can't comment on that nonsense.
> 
> If I go back to fat it will surely be 27.4 x 4.0. No hurry to do that.


Because 27.5 x 4.0 is just a teeny tiny bit too big?
;-)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2017)

reamer41 said:


> Because 27.5 x 4.0 is just a teeny tiny bit too big?
> ;-)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Deja vu from the Tire pressure gauge PSI question- Mtbr.com thread. You "tenths" obsessed bikers, close enough is just that.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

reamer41 said:


> Because 27.5 x 4.0 is just a teeny tiny bit too big?
> ;-)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


--appropriate emoji to indicate I found your comment humorous and quite clever.

No hurry though because I'm now waiting for 29 x 3.5 on 65mm rims. I heard that will be the set-up for the new ECR! I heard it from me but it is a darn good idea. Do it Surly! While your at it go ahead and fix the new Krampus to fit 29 x 3.25. Maybe it does--it should.


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## lond (Jan 14, 2017)

Nice build there! I am going 2.4 setup with hans dampf, fox float and RH. Nothing wrong with Knard just want to learn something new.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Official check shortly but it seems that a Duro Crux 3.25 tire on a 50mm rim WILL FIT in the Krampus. Just installed on my ECR without issue. My buddy with a Krampus fork is rushing over to try it. Likely we are the only ones interested but just in case, now you know. 

All that talk of 2.4 tires was bumming me out!


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

i may have to order a pair of those for the ICT,i think im going with wtb rangers for the krampus though...


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Matterhorn said:


> Official check shortly but it seems that a Duro Crux 3.25 tire on a 50mm rim WILL FIT in the Krampus. Just installed on my ECR without issue. My buddy with a Krampus fork is rushing over to try it. Likely we are the only ones interested but just in case, now you know.
> 
> All that talk of 2.4 tires was bumming me out!




The 2.4 setup I'm running right now is stellar, the bike is completely transformed. Before it was big, dumb, and heavy, now it's big, a little less dumb, and kinda less heavy.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

Matterhorn said:


> Official check shortly but it seems that a Duro Crux 3.25 tire on a 50mm rim WILL FIT in the Krampus. Just installed on my ECR without issue. My buddy with a Krampus fork is rushing over to try it. Likely we are the only ones interested but just in case, now you know.
> 
> All that talk of 2.4 tires was bumming me out!


Did you guys take any photos? It'll be a while before I need new tires, but sounds interesting


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Ol' Bromy said:


> Did you guys take any photos? It'll be a while before I need new tires, but sounds interesting


no, but I will. It is dumb and heavy but around here it opens up endless miles of desert that would otherwise be nearly unrideable.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

hamsterspam said:


> i may have to order a pair of those for the ICT,i think im going with wtb rangers for the krampus though...


I put a pair of Duro Crux 3.25 tires on my ICT Ops. The 3.25" width is at the tread, and the casing is just barely 3" (after initial stretching period). But these tires definitely have a taller outer diameter than other 3" tires. I'm running them tubeless on velocity duallys.

The outer diameter is just small enough in the rear to clear the frame. My frame bag strap on the middle of the seat tube was too close to the tire, so I had to secure it behind a bracket on the bottle cage bolts. The fender bolt on the seatstay bridge is close to having to be removed, but might be fine.

Only got 1 ride on them so far, but first impression is that they roll better on pavement than I would have thought. I couldn't tell much about the off-road traction, as that day wasn't typical trail conditions for comparison.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

Who is distributing Duro tires at this time? I checked my 3 suppliers with no luck. Ebay? Jones (I know he likes them a lot)?


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Jeff Jones sells the 3.25 29+ tire


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## HappyCamperAK (Dec 24, 2014)

I just purchased a Krampy and am waiting for it to arrive. I have been looking into suspension options and have narrowed it down to two. Either the Manitou Magnum Pro or the Lauf TR Boost. I will primarily be using this bike for bikepacking/amateur singletrack riding/winter commuting so I'm kind of leaning towards the Lauf. However the second place third option is getting the Lauf Carbonera 26 Fat/29+ fork in which case if I build the new front wheel up with a 150mm fat hub I can use the same fork with my Surly ICT. So many damn options! Discuss!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

You will love the bike...and i am curious as to how the new ones feel versus the "legacy" ones....

as far as front squish, I can't comment since I personally bought my Krampy because of its full rigid splendor! I run the tires at about 17 psi, and that is enough squish for me. i have never been a proponent of squish in either front or back so i am not versed in that world.

I am also using mine for the exact same reasons as you...winter riding in general, mostly flowy singletrack and eventually bike packing. I have a 2015. The biggest thing I have had to get used to is doing short climbs on it. Like little steep grade "techy" climbs. I was riding an old Trek Mountain Track 830 for years, and it's rear end was longer...plus the whole wheel size difference. At first (and sometimes still...) the Krampus tends to get away from me on those climbs...I am still experimenting with where I have to put my body weight versus the pedal speed and lead foot placement as I enter the climbs. I tend to put myself to far back and pedal too hard I think. But that is part of the fun...ride more, get better!


I also ride it at the local skatepark to develop some skills, and to "cross reference" with my BMX riding, and we also have a local BMX type racing track with some table-top dirt jumps and a pump track that I ride it on. It is very fun there as well. The short rear end is awesome as I a m getting more used to it.

Possibly gonna do my first bike packing trip on it this spring or summer on the CO, GAP trail from Pittsburgh to DC. This will depend on some funds falling into the right place.

Keep us in the loop about the bike!


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Another option:

I'm running a Fox Float 32 29RL (a few years old now so not boost or 29+ compatible) on mine and it fits Knards and Dirt Wizards. There's not a lot of mud clearance on the Knard but fine for dry riding.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

HappyCamperAK said:


> I just purchased a Krampy and am waiting for it to arrive. I have been looking into suspension options and have narrowed it down to two. Either the Manitou Magnum Pro or the Lauf TR Boost. I will primarily be using this bike for bikepacking/amateur singletrack riding/winter commuting so I'm kind of leaning towards the Lauf. However the second place third option is getting the Lauf Carbonera 26 Fat/29+ fork in which case if I build the new front wheel up with a 150mm fat hub I can use the same fork with my Surly ICT. So many damn options! Discuss!


I'll be putting the Magnum on mine once they become available a few months down the road...

What size are you ordering? Frame or complete?


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

It's not just you! I'd like to know if the 3.25 fits under the ("Legacy") Krampus... How'd your friend's fork clearance work out?



Matterhorn said:


> Official check shortly but it seems that a Duro Crux 3.25 tire on a 50mm rim WILL FIT in the Krampus. Just installed on my ECR without issue. My buddy with a Krampus fork is rushing over to try it. Likely we are the only ones interested but just in case, now you know.
> 
> All that talk of 2.4 tires was bumming me out!


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## HappyCamperAK (Dec 24, 2014)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> I'll be putting the Magnum on mine once they become available a few months down the road...
> 
> What size are you ordering? Frame or complete?


It's actually a complete last year's krampus in a size small. Got it for a good deal brand new. My buddy has a size small that he built up from the frameset and has a manitou magnum pro installed. It definitely changed the geometry but not in any sort of bad way.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

HappyCamperAK said:


> It's actually a complete last year's krampus in a size small. Got it for a good deal brand new. My buddy has a size small that he built up from the frameset and has a manitou magnum pro installed. It definitely changed the geometry but not in any sort of bad way.


Nice!!! Love the swamp green.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Also love the Swamp Green. 

Does anyone have a RAL code for it as I want to get my new bike painted the same colour. Have spoken to Surly and the said it was a special.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2017)

fartymarty said:


> Also love the Swamp Green.
> 
> Does anyone have a RAL code for it as I want to get my new bike painted the same colour. Have spoken to Surly and the said it was a special.


 Take a Krampus to a place that sells car paint and have it matched.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Anyone ever try B fat in the rear? Like maybe a 3.8 Hodag...


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

will give it a go.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> Anyone ever try B fat in the rear? Like maybe a 3.8 Hodag...


This would be great if it fit, but I can't believe we have clearance for that. If you find out otherwise, please let me know!


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Magicscreen said:


> This would be great if it fit, but I can't believe we have clearance for that. If you find out otherwise, please let me know!


I thought I remember reading that a 3.8 hodag would clear the Manitou Magnum...

Just curious if anyone had tried one in the rear. Certainly would be awesome for winter use!


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

fartymarty said:


> will give it a go.


Great! Let us know how you make out.


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## lond (Jan 14, 2017)

HappyCamperAK said:


> I just purchased a Krampy and am waiting for it to arrive. I have been looking into suspension options and have narrowed it down to two. Either the Manitou Magnum Pro or the Lauf TR Boost. I will primarily be using this bike for bikepacking/amateur singletrack riding/winter commuting so I'm kind of leaning towards the Lauf. However the second place third option is getting the Lauf Carbonera 26 Fat/29+ fork in which case if I build the new front wheel up with a 150mm fat hub I can use the same fork with my Surly ICT. So many damn options! Discuss!


if your plan to go fast, Lauf is the answer but the downside is the limit of tyre clearance. Read:Max capacity is a 2.35″ wide tire


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## cmc1111 (Jan 26, 2017)

Anyone know if the rockshox revalation fits a kramp? Havent been able to find anything on anyone trying....
Just wondering because I can snag a new 2014 model for about $100 less than the yari.


Sent from my SM-J320P using Tapatalk


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## lond (Jan 14, 2017)

here my krampus build, float 34 with hans dampf 2.35


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## TuTone T (Dec 12, 2012)

So sad seeing a Krampus with a fork that can't take 29+ #let down by the industry.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

You would probably squeeze a 29+ in there. I had DW and Knards on my regular Float 32.

The best bit about the Krampus is how normal they look with standard 29 tyres - they're such a versatile bike.


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## max5480 (Jun 19, 2010)

Hey all. Building up a Krampus right now from the frame and have some questions on the build. I have everything except the drivetrain and tires.

I'll probably build it with full Sram NX 1x11 30t chainring up front 11-42. Do you think this is a good idea? I'm trying to stay on the cheap, so NX seems like it's up my alley and from what I've read most people thing the 32t stock tooth was too stout (although perhaps that was only paired with the 36 max cassette cog). 

Also, I'm thinking about tires, primarily between the Ranger, Knard, and Dirt Wizard. The Dirt wizard seems a little chunky for my taste and I've measured them on 2.75+ and they weren't quite 3" anyway. The ranger seems like it has a nice roundness similar to the knard but with a little more traction. My only hesitation on the ranger is that the knobs seems very close together and not very good at shedding mud. 

Other than those questions, I'm thinking building it simply with a rigid fork, rabbit hole rims, and running split tubeless. Thanks for any suggestions ant tips.

Max


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

3,821 posts..THREE THOOUUSSAND eight hundred and 21 posts.

The Krampus has got some legs dontcha know


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Max, 

I was running a 10 speed 30t with 12-42 cassette and Zee mech. 30t x 42t is good especially if you have the grip.

Knards are also not grear in mud but are great on dirt. I was running some 120tpis on 30mm internal rims. They got a bit squirmy when pushed hard. I also had 60tpi dirt wizards which were great but heavy at 1300g per tyre. Really depends on where you are riding and how you ride.

Martin


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Osco - That's probably because it is the most versatile mountain bike frame that has ever been made.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

max5480 said:


> Hey all. Building up a Krampus right now from the frame and have some questions on the build. I have everything except the drivetrain and tires.
> 
> I'll probably build it with full Sram NX 1x11 30t chainring up front 11-42. Do you think this is a good idea? I'm trying to stay on the cheap, so NX seems like it's up my alley and from what I've read most people thing the 32t stock tooth was too stout (although perhaps that was only paired with the 36 max cassette cog).
> 
> ...


Your drivetrain choice sounds good to me especially if you're gonna do any real climbing. I've got a 1x10 on mine, but running a 30t with a wolf tooth 42 out back and she climbs relatively well.

Personally I didn't like the stock knards. They're terrible mud tires and only seemed good on harder surfaces. Like others will tell you, depends on where you're riding. I'm running maxxis Minion dhf up front and Chronicle in the back and I am very happy with them where I ride.

I just made my Krampus tubeless by building up the rim bed with one layer of foam door sealing tape, then two passes with 2" gorilla tape. Has held beautifully.

Since she's not built yet, now would be the time for some framesaver type treatment too. Whatever build you end up with, you're gonna love your Krampus. Enjoy!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

I have the Knards on mine, and agree that they don't shed clay-like mud well. I am going to try Gravity Vidars here this Spring. I do like the Knards for dry conditions, gravel and rolling on pavement on the way to the trail though. I think the tread blocks are just too close to let the mud fly off, and too sloce when the mud is packed in to them...to the point that they almost become rounded in certain cases.

I love it that you are going with the rigid fork, and definitely get the framesaver treatment!


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## hiro11 (Dec 29, 2011)

My question: Karate Monkey or Krampus?

Details: I'm 5'10". I plan to use the bike for a bit of trail, a bit of fire road cruising, a bit of day bikepacking and a bit of riding to the brewpub with friends. I'm not an aggressive mountain biker. I have several other bikes, I just really like the practicality of Surly's offerings and want to get something I can thrash a bit and not worry about scratching up. I'm going to go with the stock complete build. I'll probably get a dropper post and I plan to keep the bike rigid.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

hiro11 said:


> My question: Karate Monkey or Krampus?
> 
> Details: I'm 5'10". I plan to use the bike for a bit of trail, a bit of fire road cruising, a bit of day bikepacking and a bit of riding to the brewpub with friends. I'm not an aggressive mountain biker. I have several other bikes, I just really like the practicality of Surly's offerings and want to get something I can thrash a bit and not worry about scratching up. I'm going to go with the stock complete build. I'll probably get a dropper post and I plan to keep the bike rigid.


I don't know if there is a price difference between the too, I would go with the Krampus for the rollover capability of those 29+ tires.


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## hiro11 (Dec 29, 2011)

temporoad said:


> I don't know if there is a price difference between the too, I would go with the Krampus for the rollover capability of those 29+ tires.


Good question. Is the red '17 Krampus actually available anywhere? I can't find it or see pricing anywhere.

The KM is easy to find and costs $1,400. The '17 Krampus has the same exact build as the KM (except for the wheels / tires of course) and the same frame tubing. I guess I assumed they'd cost about the same, maybe $100 more for the Krampus. If the Krampus costs several hundred more than the KM it's not worth it to me.


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

hiro11 said:


> My question: Karate Monkey or Krampus?
> 
> Details: I'm 5'10". I plan to use the bike for a bit of trail, a bit of fire road cruising, a bit of day bikepacking and a bit of riding to the brewpub with friends. I'm not an aggressive mountain biker. I have several other bikes, I just really like the practicality of Surly's offerings and want to get something I can thrash a bit and not worry about scratching up. I'm going to go with the stock complete build. I'll probably get a dropper post and I plan to keep the bike rigid.


I think either would be great for what you describe. The biggest difference between 29+ and 27.5+ is 29+ feels closer to a fat bike. The rollover on the the 29+ is great. What you describe is also how I ride my ECR, it is perfect for that. I had a hard time choosing a Krampus vs ECR. The new 27.5+ KM looks great. So does the Ogre, but they aren't going to offer it as a 27.5+ option, just capable.


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## cmc1111 (Jan 26, 2017)

Hey all. Riding season is nearly here in MI. Cant wait. My qustion is will this older left work for my krampy?









Sent from my SM-J320P using Tapatalk


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

If it's a 9qr. 😂


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## cmc1111 (Jan 26, 2017)

lastchance said:


> If it's a 9qr. 😂


Heh?

Sent from my SM-J320P using Tapatalk


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## cmc1111 (Jan 26, 2017)

cmc1111 said:


> Heh?
> 
> Sent from my SM-J320P using Tapatalk


I am antipating a wheel rebuild...

Sent from my SM-J320P using Tapatalk


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

I'm making a joke about the factory 9mm QR axle. That's all.


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## cmc1111 (Jan 26, 2017)

lastchance said:


> I'm making a joke about the factory 9mm QR axle. That's all.


Took me a minute... my brain works pretty slow after work lol 

Sent from my SM-J320P using Tapatalk


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## max5480 (Jun 19, 2010)

Hello fellow Krampus enthusiasts!

I just finished building up my Moonlit Swamp Krampus and took it for its inaugural shred trip down to Moab. After riding the new Karate Monkey I immediately knew that Surly's tweaks on the KM and Krampus were not for me and feel like the OG Krampus is superior - So I quickly found a frame on eBay and built one up at the local shop (Saturday Cycles is the best shop in SLC, for anybody who's in the area). Here are the results:









Check out the full gallery and build details here.

Max


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

She looks good, Max...enjoy! They're a blast to ride, don't ya think?


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I've just put a pair of 120mm Pikes on mine and had the first ride today. So far so good. Will post piccys once I take some.


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

fartymarty said:


> I've just put a pair of 120mm Pikes on mine and had the first ride today. So far so good. Will post piccys once I take some.


A pair? I believe the Krampus will only accept a single Pike fork.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

pulsepro said:


> A pair? I believe the Krampus will only accept a single Pike fork.


Lol, I was thinking............ A Pair of Pikes, I want to see this!!


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

sorry to disappoint it is only a single fork.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

max5480 said:


> Hello fellow Krampus enthusiasts!
> 
> I just finished building up my Moonlit Swamp Krampus and took it for its inaugural shred trip down to Moab. After riding the new Karate Monkey I immediately knew that Surly's tweaks on the KM and Krampus were not for me and feel like the OG Krampus is superior - So I quickly found a frame on eBay and built one up at the local shop (Saturday Cycles is the best shop in SLC, for anybody who's in the area). Here are the results:
> 
> ...


I'm curious to hear what you like better about the original Krampus over the new model.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

cjbiker said:


> I'm curious to hear what you like better about the original Krampus over the new model.


I'm wondering how he likes the 11-46 XT cassette that he's running.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

i have both a krampus and an ict with 29+ wheels and my feeling is the slacker geo means the front end wanders more when climbing but it goes downhill just a wee bit easier...

i wonder about the cassette too...been in that situation more than once where i was still wishing for a bailout gear while riding on the 42...


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

Looks great, Max. Where did you get the Krampus for the head tube? I really like it.


max5480 said:


> Hello fellow Krampus enthusiasts!
> 
> I just finished building up my Moonlit Swamp Krampus and took it for its inaugural shred trip down to Moab. After riding the new Karate Monkey I immediately knew that Surly's tweaks on the KM and Krampus were not for me and feel like the OG Krampus is superior - So I quickly found a frame on eBay and built one up at the local shop (Saturday Cycles is the best shop in SLC, for anybody who's in the area).
> 
> Max


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

Magicscreen said:


> Looks great, Max. Where did you get the Krampus for the head tube? I really like it.


Krampus

I think he found it here


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

Hey, thanks! I'm not sure it's worth $70 to me, but it's good to know things like that exist.

Thanks again.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

No problem...you could always make one. I made this creepy dude for my Krampus head tube this winter and posted it a while back.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

That is really cool! I actually like it better.

How'd you do it?


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

Thanks man! 

I snagged a piece of 1/8" aluminum from work, drew my Krampus face on it and used engraving bits in a Dremel to engrave it. Then I hit it with black spray paint and immediately wiped it off of just the high spots so it would be color-filled. Then curved it using a metal tube, wood blocks and my bench vise. Last I clear coated it and stuck it on my head tube with double sided VHB tape. Took about 3 hours total.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

Strong work! And now you're an artist! Thanks again.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

Went for my first ride today after converting my Krampus to 1x11. Ended up going with a Shimano M8000 derailleur and shifter with a Sunrace 11-46 cassette. Decided to go with the Sunrace cassette since I didn't think I'd like the 37-46 jump on the XT cassette. 

The quality of the Sunrace cassette looks great. The finish may not be as polished as a Shimano or SRAM cassette as it took a little more effort to get the 15t cog onto my brand new, flawless, stainless King freehub body, but it's pretty dang close. 

My absolute favorite part of the new drivetrain has got to be the feel of the shifter. Coming from my 10 speed SLX shifter/derailleur combo, the new lever feels buttery smooth by comparison. Dumping 3-4 gears with one swipe of the shifter paddle as the trail turns upward has never felt so good or been so fluid. 

I'm very happy with the performance overall. I think I'll be able to reserve my new 46t bailout gear for special occasions since I was able to muscle up everything on today's ride maxing out on the 40t ring where I'd typically be using my 42t Wolftooth cog.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

nice! im considering some new i9s for the krampus and blunt35s..


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

hamsterspam said:


> nice! im considering some new i9s for the krampus and blunt35s..


That sounds awesome and i9 makes killer stuff for sure.

I built the Rabbit Hole with the King hub after busting one of the original Shimano pawls at the bottom of a long, torturous climb. Decided I wanted a more robust rear hub than what she came with after that ride.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

I just got WTB 35mm rims laced to DTS 350 hubs, couldn't beat the price so I made an impulse buy. Set them up tubeless this afternoon with a newer set of Chrons, lost 5-7mm at the widest point of the tire plus the profile is nice and round, as opposed to flat and squashed.

I'll shred around on Monday and report back on my feelings, the wheelset was less than $250 so I figure I'll thrash them until I can justify something fancier. 

Disclaimer: I'm the guy that got bored or the predictable boringess of the 50mm RH w/ 3.0 tires so I wrapped the wheels in 2.4 mountain kings and have been blasting around, destroying the sidewalls because they are so so so so flattened out from sitting on such a wide rim.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

much as i love me some rabbit hole rims when i put the ss wheels on blunt35s with the wtb ranger light casing it was like a whole new bike,much easier to spin up ss...plus im thinking of taking the pro4's off the krampus wheels and slapping those on the new cross check...the krampus it working great as a ss and i have 29+ wheels for the ict on rabbit holes with wtb ranger tough casing for getting ugly....but i bet the krampus with a 1x11 and lighter wheels would be pretty dang fun


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Yeah, I was riding that 2.4 on the RH and having a blast with the regained sketchiness, I missed all the "oh ****" moments on descents when I wasn't getting crazy 3.0-at-15psi-grip. I was looking for twitchy-ness and I definitely got it!


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

I've got another SS rigid 29'r and I'm still digging the RHs myself. I bet some lighter wheels would be fun on her tho. A couple of those gangster ENVE hoops would work if money was no object. I better start saving now


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

I think these 35s will do me just right, I love the Maxxis Chronicles but was bored of the steamroller nature of the bike. 

I need something that makes me think, choose lines carefully, etc., it is the reason some of us are riding hard tails and not full squish.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

Yeah...I'm definitely spending more time and money on my rigid whips and paying less attention to my FS bike these days


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

You could start selling them.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Lastchance - Im now running MK3 flows and theyre great. My Blunts were getting a little beat up - the rear has 5-6 big dents and a cracked spoke hole.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Hamsterspam - add a pair of 120mm Pikes and a -2 degree Works Component headset and its a full sus killer.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

fartymarty said:


> Lastchance - Im now running MK3 flows and theyre great. My Blunts were getting a little beat up - the rear has 5-6 big dents and a cracked spoke hole.


I definitely hear mixed things about the Blunts but these WTB i35 ASYM or whatevers seem pretty solid for the price, plus going from 2.4 on a 50mm to 3.0 on a 35mm seems like a good compromise for weight, drag, and the mental game of seeming a nice, round tire profile.

I don't ride super low pressures and hit trails pretty aggressively so I sit at around 18-20psi tubeless for the 3.0 tires and never really had issues smooshing out any of the 3.0 tires I rode, I was at 26-28psi for the 2.4 which turned the outer rotative mass into a wagon wheel of unforgivingness.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

fartymarty said:


> Hamsterspam - add a pair of 120mm Pikes and a -2 degree Works Component headset and its a full sus killer.


My buddies already can't hang with the Krampus on descents. Once those hoops reach top speed, I'm gone. Choppering out the front end and adding a Pike would make these bikes real beasts


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Ol' Bromy said:


> My buddies already can't hang with the Krampus on descents. Once those hoops reach top speed, I'm gone. Choppering out the front end and adding a Pike would make these bikes real beasts


100-120mm corrected, it doesn't get that slack, but whatevs, slack is all the rage right now anyway. Any bit of "chopper" you get from adding a susfork is negated by the increase in pleasure.

I found the full rigid Krampus completely unbearable, it's awful for the style of riding I do, there aren't enough bragging rights or silly looks on the trail that would lead me to put the Krampus back to full rigid. It's like driving around a Honda with cut springs, all bouncy and uncomfortable.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

Ol' Bromy said:


> I've got another SS rigid 29'r and I'm still digging the RHs myself. I bet some lighter wheels would be fun on her tho. A couple of those gangster ENVE hoops would work if money was no object. I better start saving now


yeah,my original vision of the krampus i wanted lime green i9s but ended up with the hopes since thats what the shop could get,and now i have actually tried an i9 hub so i really want them now...



fartymarty said:


> Hamsterspam - add a pair of 120mm Pikes and a -2 degree Works Component headset and its a full sus killer.


im old and chicken **** when it comes to descending and far prefer thusly to crush the climbs rather than bomb downhill and im not a fan of the slacker front end thing since i notice the front end on the ICT tends to wander...


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

For posterity.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

lastchance said:


> 100-120mm corrected, it doesn't get that slack, but whatevs, slack is all the rage right now anyway. Any bit of "chopper" you get from adding a susfork is negated by the increase in pleasure.
> 
> I found the full rigid Krampus completely unbearable, it's awful for the style of riding I do, there aren't enough bragging rights or silly looks on the trail that would lead me to put the Krampus back to full rigid. It's like driving around a Honda with cut springs, all bouncy and uncomfortable.


The addition of a fork won't chopper it out, but the -2* headset would


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

I don't notice that ****, I went down almost 1/2" changing tires and the world panicked because my BB was "dumped" and "way too low", didn't notice any difference whatsoever. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

I'd be less likely to notice a lower BB myself too, unless I'm smacking crankarms on rocks. A slacker front end would be more noticeable to most riders. It would obviously be a blast when pointed downhill and harder to handle when climbing. Just saying


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

For sure. I ride pretty varied trails, a wide range of them too, so I guess a lot of those subtle nuances are just that to me, subtle. I guess I just let the bike do it's job and hold on the best I can.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

I ride a bunch of different types of terrain as well. Some fast, steep, flowy that's got fantastic traction and some very narrow, tight, slow rocky stuff with marbles on concrete type traction. I guess we're all lucky to have found a very versatile bike that can be built up to suit so many riding styles


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Maiden voyage on the 35mm rims with Maxxis Chronicles was insane, I definitely missed the added plushness of big tires. Maxed out at 28.9mph on the downhill portion too, a personal best for that trail.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Yep. 35mm rims with 3.0 tires is where it's at. That's all.


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

lastchance said:


> I just got WTB 35mm rims laced to DTS 350 hubs, couldn't beat the price so I made an impulse buy. Set them up tubeless this afternoon with a newer set of Chrons, lost 5-7mm at the widest point of the tire plus the profile is nice and round, as opposed to flat and squashed.
> 
> I'll shred around on Monday and report back on my feelings, the wheelset was less than $250 so I figure I'll thrash them until I can justify something fancier.
> 
> Disclaimer: I'm the guy that got bored or the predictable boringess of the 50mm RH w/ 3.0 tires so I wrapped the wheels in 2.4 mountain kings and have been blasting around, destroying the sidewalls because they are so so so so flattened out from sitting on such a wide rim.


WTB i35's on DT 350's for under $250 a set??? I assume that was a one time deal only. If not, please share...


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

lastchance said:


> Yep. 35mm rims with 3.0 tires is where it's at. That's all.


I'm pretty sure that's the sweet spot too, whether b+ or 29+. I'm trying to justify a 3rd set of wheels here.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

TooSteep said:


> WTB i35's on DT 350's for under $250 a set??? I assume that was a one time deal only. If not, please share...


Amazon, my man. $252.02 shipped, no prime. They're more expensive now but still a steal! These are the jam, I've ridden them hard for the last few weeks with zero issues. 9QR front and rear means zero mods to the stock Krampus.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06W9FC44K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

lastchance said:


> Amazon, my man. $252.02 shipped, no prime. They're more expensive now but still a steal! These are the jam, I've ridden them hard for the last few weeks with zero issues. 9QR front and rear means zero mods to the stock Krampus.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06W9FC44K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


That's a great deal!


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## TooSteep (Oct 6, 2012)

lastchance said:


> ...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06W9FC44K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Thanks! Is there really a restriction on the cassette size? Will it take a late model 11speed?


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

No idea. I bought the wheelset and swapped my stock cassette with no issues.


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## fthefox (Nov 27, 2005)

Reaching out to you Krampus owners. Seriously thinking of adding a suspension fork after two years of ownership. The rigid stock fork has a 483mm of ac with a 47mm offset. I am running Chpacabras on Blunt rims. There seems to be 3 valid options:

Manitou Magnum (100, 120 and 130 mm)
Fox 34 27.5+ (120mm that can be lowered to 110mm)
RS Pike 29+ (120mm)

I use mainly the bike for bikepacking. What do you think would be the best option to stay close to the caracteristics of the original fork taking into account sag? 

Thanks for you help guys. 

F


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

fthefox said:


> Reaching out to you Krampus owners. Seriously thinking of adding a suspension fork after two years of ownership. The rigid stock fork has a 483mm of ac with a 47mm offset. I am running Chpacabras on Blunt rims. There seems to be 3 valid options:
> 
> Manitou Magnum (100, 120 and 130 mm)
> Fox 34 27.5+ (120mm that can be lowered to 110mm)
> ...


I have a Fox Float 32 100mm (new) take off bought from eBay. It was cheap and has performed great, I completely thrash the thing.

You'll need to grind out the arch to hell but I haven't had any issues yet.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

fthefox said:


> Reaching out to you Krampus owners. Seriously thinking of adding a suspension fork after two years of ownership. The rigid stock fork has a 483mm of ac with a 47mm offset. I am running Chpacabras on Blunt rims. There seems to be 3 valid options:
> 
> Manitou Magnum (100, 120 and 130 mm)
> Fox 34 27.5+ (120mm that can be lowered to 110mm)
> ...


I could not imagine having any squish on a bike that is already going to be loaded with the weight of gear, so I am in the "Stay rigid" camp. I hate any kind of climbing with suspension...when I pedal, I want all of the energy going through the frame and out of the tires.

Just my 2 cents...


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I could not imagine having any squish on a bike that is already going to be loaded with the weight of gear, so I am in the "Stay rigid" camp. I hate any kind of climbing with suspension...when I pedal, I want all of the energy going through the frame and out of the tires.
> 
> Just my 2 cents...


Not having a squishy fork is joint/back/shoulder suicide imho. I rode a squishy fork (100mm w/ lockout, so not super moto) for about 6 months before throwing the rigid fork back on, bad move, slowed me way down and made for a much much much less enjoyable shredsesh.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

i've been debating getting a sus fork for the krampus for a while...after having to bail on part of a ride last weekend because the pounding flared up an old injury in my wrist and i couldnt hang onto the bars and use the brakes at the same time going downhill,and that just made the opposite shoulder start going out...partly it was due to riding singlespeed and i could really have used a pair of bars end to put my wrist in a more neutral position for all the out of the saddle climbing,or some jones loop bars...

but....i far prefer feeling like i know what the front end of the bike is going to do...maybe im getting a bad impression of sus forks by having a bluto which can be alarmingly noodley at the wrong moments,but im also bad at fiddling with shock settings to dial the thing in so....dont know if a different,perhaps better fork would be the answer...

getting old sucks...im not so interested in shredding as much as simply being able to continue to ride...


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

hamsterspam said:


> i've been debating getting a sus fork for the krampus for a while...after having to bail on part of a ride last weekend because the pounding flared up an old injury in my wrist and i couldnt hang onto the bars and use the brakes at the same time going downhill,and that just made the opposite shoulder start going out...partly it was due to riding singlespeed and i could really have used a pair of bars end to put my wrist in a more neutral position for all the out of the saddle climbing,or some jones loop bars...
> 
> but....i far prefer feeling like i know what the front end of the bike is going to do...maybe im getting a bad impression of sus forks by having a bluto which can be alarmingly noodley at the wrong moments,but im also bad at fiddling with shock settings to dial the thing in so....dont know if a different,perhaps better fork would be the answer...
> 
> getting old sucks...im not so interested in shredding as much as simply being able to continue to ride...


I promise, dude, getting a sus fork was an absolute game changer for me. In Colorado full rigid is absolute suicide, I did it for months to be "that guy" charging trails on a non-suspended steel bike because I had never ridden sus anything and was worried about reliability, weight, cost, whatever...

It was stupid, it was awful, the bike is so GD bouncy on the trail, positive tire contact was nil, everything felt like it was going to rattle off, and so on. Nothing about riding a full rigid bike in CO is fun, unless you're strictly on gravel roads with zero technical aspects/bumps/rocks.

Once I bought a fork, modified it to fit big tires, then fitted it... It was an entirely new experience: I could charge harder, traction was better, everything was more comfortable, I was faster into corners, faster out of corners, happier climbing, etc. I would never go back to a rigid fork after having 500+ miles on a sus fork.

Perhaps I'm just using the bike wrong? Maybe I'm stretching it's purpose to fit my needs?

SIDENOTE: I have a BMX (street, not racing) background so I've spent my entire life on full rigid bikes and was insanely skeptical like most Krampus riders of sus forks, super paranoid about reliability, breaking something, etc.


----------



## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

hamsterspam said:


> i've been debating getting a sus fork for the krampus for a while...after having to bail on part of a ride last weekend because the pounding flared up an old injury in my wrist and i couldnt hang onto the bars and use the brakes at the same time going downhill,and that just made the opposite shoulder start going out...partly it was due to riding singlespeed and i could really have used a pair of bars end to put my wrist in a more neutral position for all the out of the saddle climbing,or some jones loop bars...
> 
> but....i far prefer feeling like i know what the front end of the bike is going to do...maybe im getting a bad impression of sus forks by having a bluto which can be alarmingly noodley at the wrong moments,but im also bad at fiddling with shock settings to dial the thing in so....dont know if a different,perhaps better fork would be the answer...
> 
> getting old sucks...im not so interested in shredding as much as simply being able to continue to ride...


On shock settings - I was the same, no idea what to do, watch the Fox video on setting sag and rebound, that's all you need to get dialed in. I set the sus fork up MONTHS ago this way and haven't done anything with it since.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

thats the thing here,im just not going to be doing any hard charging,a couple of recent wrecks that should have been minor occurrences ended up being far more hurtful than stalling out and falling over would merit....after an active life,cycling is the last thing i can still do with minimal pain so in the long run i think im better off slowing things down...so in that regard the bluto with the 29+ wheelset on the ICT is fine,i dont really need to be able to careen downhill at breakneck speed,more along the lines of keeping my joints happy on long washboard dirt roads and the endless variety of rock gardens around here..


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

I'm also sticking with my rigid Krampus fork. I have a great Fox Float 36 which is a burly fork with insane adjustability that just goes where you point it, mounted to my full suspension bike and it rarely gets ridden. I've also recently pulled the suspension fork off of my SS and put the steel fork back on it. To me, rigid bikes are just more fun to ride...on most trails.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

Ergon grips really improved this for me. It distributes the load over a larger area, and puts my wrists in a better position. I like the cork grips. 

Good luck to you. Agreed that getting old sucks - but it beats the alternative!


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Ergons and carbon bars will help, but a squish fork is totally different. 
Right now I'll just thankful I can blast the rigid and enjoy it.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

lastchance said:


> Not having a squishy fork is joint/back/shoulder suicide imho. I rode a squishy fork (100mm w/ lockout, so not super moto) for about 6 months before throwing the rigid fork back on, bad move, slowed me way down and made for a much much much less enjoyable shredsesh.


well, when bike-packing I am rarely worried about shredding... I am worried about proper use of energy and durability. Even on the regular trail I don't worry too much about shredding. I leave shredding to the skatepark and my BMX.

I am lucky that my body is not too beat up after years of riding and playing hockey...in 10 years I might be feeling different about squish, but right now I don't need it. NOT saying that if you (or anyone) need it or like it that it is wrong. I am not in tha tcamp. Ride what ever gets you out there!!


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

sXeXBMXer said:


> well, when bike-packing I am rarely worried about shredding... I am worried about proper use of energy and durability. Even on the regular trail I don't worry too much about shredding. I leave shredding to the skatepark and my BMX.
> 
> I am lucky that my body is not too beat up after years of riding and playing hockey...in 10 years I might be feeling different about squish, but right now I don't need it. NOT saying that if you (or anyone) need it or like it that it is wrong. I am not in tha tcamp. Ride what ever gets you out there!!


You're not in that camp YET. 😉

and I suppose for the record I'm not beat up, nor am I 40 yet but the return on riding full rigid just isn't there for me. I'm way faster/comfy with a sus fork, plus you guys all live in Wisconsin. 😂


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## Chippertheripper (Sep 10, 2014)

Wisconsichusetts, that is.


----------



## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

Santa Cruz mountains, WI


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## hiro11 (Dec 29, 2011)

Serious question: has anyone seen the red 2017 version of the Krampus on sale anywhere?


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

hiro11 said:


> Serious question: has anyone seen the red 2017 version of the Krampus on sale anywhere?


LBS told me they would be available on 5/15 give or take a few days.


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## earlanderson (Sep 27, 2013)

Surly told me June at the earliest !!!

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

earlanderson said:


> Surly told me June at the earliest !!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk


I just heard from them on Wednesday and they said end of May...

I really hope it's not June. I'm not really sure what the problem is, but it's getting annoying! I might think about going with a Jobberwocky, but they seem to be having the same issue... trails are drying up here and I want to be ridding ! In December when I started this whole process, April sounded alright...not June!!!


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## pdxfixed (Feb 18, 2016)

Captain_America1976 said:


> LBS told me they would be available on 5/15 give or take a few days.


LBS told me my frame was on the boat from Taiwan and would be here 4/15, which is why I got a refund.


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> I might think about going with a Jobberwocky, but they seem to be having the same issue... trails are drying up here and I want to be ridding !


Jabbers are at least now showing in stock, and available to order. 
JabberWocky Frame


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

lastchance said:


> I'm way faster/comfy with a sus fork, plus you guys all live in Wisconsin. ?


Wait a minute....is Wisconsin the butt of some type of mountain biking joke? haha

Rear end note: I was having trouble with the rear tire rubbing the CS when slammed and found that swapping the stock SLX axle out for a bolt on axle has really stiffened the rear end up.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

jonshonda said:


> Wait a minute....is Wisconsin the butt of some type of mountain biking joke? haha
> 
> Rear end note: I was having trouble with the rear tire rubbing the CS when slammed and found that swapping the stock SLX axle out for a bolt on axle has really stiffened the rear end up.


Good to know, I have a trunk mount rack so I never use my QR, I have creaking issues up front with the QR skewers after riding a few miles, also get my rear wheel shifting around a bit like you. You can also not slam the wheel to get a bit more clearance back there but a decent knock will shift the rear around with a QR axle, especially if it's not clamped down way hard.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I use a DT Swiss RWS axle on the front of the Krampus with the stock fork. It's very secure. For the new rear wheel I built up I got a bolt on Hope hub. That bad boy won't be moving anywhere.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

vikb said:


> I use a DT Swiss RWS axle on the front of the Krampus with the stock fork. It's very secure. For the new rear wheel I built up I got a bolt on Hope hub. That bad boy won't be moving anywhere.


I need to explore some options in this arena, I have a pair of DT350s on my Krampus that would most definitely befit from bolt-on axles.

Vik - this guy? https://www.dtswiss.com/Components/RWS/RWS-Thru-bolt-front

Looks like it's available in 100mm front and 135mm rear, PERFECT!


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

ditto on the Hope Rear. Im running a Hope 10mm bolt through with a Hadley 10mm aluminium axle. Seems to do the trick.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

I pulled the trigger on the DTS RWS front and rear levers, I'll report back once I install and ride them a bit. 

Hoping that creaking goes away in the front end and my rear wheel stays put, or at least I notice some added stiffness.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

lastchance said:


> I pulled the trigger on the DTS RWS front and rear levers, I'll report back once I install and ride them a bit.
> 
> Hoping that creaking goes away in the front end and my rear wheel stays put, or at least I notice some added stiffness.


What hubs are you running? Those aren't going to work with the stock QR hubs, are they?


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

DT350 hubs, so... Same maker of the levers.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

lastchance said:


> DT350 hubs, so... Same maker of the levers.


If you got the 9mm front and 10mm rear RWS it will require an end cap switch for both. However, they do also make QR versions of the RWS...though, I don't think they offer as much of an advantage.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> If you got the 9mm front and 10mm rear RWS it will require an end cap switch for both. However, they do also make QR versions of the RWS...though, I don't think they offer as much of an advantage.


I got the caps, but that's an important note for those making the switch from crap/flimsy QR skewers.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

lastchance said:


> I got the caps, but that's an important note for those making the switch from crap/flimsy QR skewers.


Nice, I've had good luck with a set I used to run!


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> Nice, I've had good luck with a set I used to run!


Sweet! I have a helluva time with wheel shift in the rear and creaks in the front, hoping this fixes me up.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Never had them in a slotted dropout...but it did noticeably firm up the front. You can really crank them down tight.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

So as a follow up I still get rubbing on my chainstays. I got such a good deal on my Krampus that selling it will bring a profit towards my next 29+. thinking RSD big chief right now. hmmm


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

What's rubbing? What tires are you on? PSI? 

Is the wheel slammed? Why not get chain tensioners and some Hope skewers, your **** will never move.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

lastchance said:


> What's rubbing? What tires are you on? PSI?
> 
> Is the wheel slammed? Why not get chain tensioners and some Hope skewers, your **** will never move.


Tire is rubbing on both chain stays, rubs with monkey nuts and slammed. I just converted to a bolt on axle and it still rubs.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

The tire rub sounds strange. I'm also curious what tires and pressure. Constant rubbing, or just when leaning thru turns? Does your rear wheel need some truing? The stock Knards and Maxxis Chronicles have enough clearance when used as rear tires on mine.


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

*Sea Otter Classic MTB Tour*

Decided to ride the Krampus in the Sea Otter Classic mtb tour last weekend. 22 miles and +3000 feet of climbing. Can't wait to do it again next year.


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## lond (Jan 14, 2017)

Ol' Bromy said:


> Decided to ride the Krampus in the Sea Otter Classic mtb tour last weekend. 22 miles and +3000 feet of climbing. Can't wait to do it again next year.


awesome bro!!!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Ol' Bromy said:


> Decided to ride the Krampus in the Sea Otter Classic mtb tour last weekend. 22 miles and +3000 feet of climbing. Can't wait to do it again next year.


man, me and my Krampus are jealous!!!


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Universal Cycles is showing them in stock now (framesets that is) - https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=83489


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

nitrousjunky said:


> Universal Cycles is showing them in stock now (framesets that is) - https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=83489


yup, Quality has them in stock as well, though in very limited quantities.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Picking my XL up today!!!


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Photos please once shes built.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

fartymarty said:


> Photos please once shes built.


Absolutely! With any luck I'll have it together by the end of the weekend.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Awesome, cant wait. Also did you have the old Krampus as a comparison would be good.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Note for guys with wheel shift and/or creaking in the front end: DT Swiss RWS skewers are absolute magic. Not only can you torque them down like crazy but they look awesome and eliminate any signs of movement.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

*XL Krampus for sale*

Selling my 1 year old XL Krampus. Please PM with questions or offers.

Thanks

http://forums.mtbr.com/classifieds/xl-surly-krampus-1044693.html#post13157087

View attachment 1135858


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Just finished it up today!

Build:

XL Krampus
Manitou Magnum Pro 120
Cane Creek 110
40mm Nextie on Boost DT 240 w/ CX-Rays
Bontrager Chupacabras
X01 Eagle Grip Shift drivetrain 
XTR M9020 trail brakes
Bikeyoke Revive dropper 
Ritchey WCS Carbon trail 35 bar
Ritchey WCS Trail 35 stem
Specialized Phenom Pro saddle
ESI grips
XTR Pedals....


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> Just finished it up today!


Sweet build! Go get it dirty! :thumbsup:


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Whoa, lots of clearance on that fork.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

looks like a shredder!


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## Ol Bromy (Feb 6, 2009)

Looks great. When's the maiden voyage?


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Ol' Bromy said:


> Looks great. When's the maiden voyage?


4am tomorrow!


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> 4am tomorrow!


I can't wait to hear what you thought of the new whip!


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## mpolka (Mar 8, 2013)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> Just finished it up today!
> 
> Build:
> 
> ...


Nice Build!

I got a large frameset in this week, I'll be doing a semi-budget SS build on it in the coming weeks. The ARC 30 rims will be replaced with ARC 40's fairly soon too.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Chronicles are my most favorite tires ever.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

I'm loving the new Krampus...only complaint so far is lack of bottle mounts. My XL frame has mount for EVERYTHING, except two bottles in the main triangle...come on surly. There's a second bottle mount on the bottom of the down tube, but who likes drinking dirt?


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> I'm loving the new Krampus...only complaint so far is lack of bottle mounts. My XL frame has mount for EVERYTHING, except two bottles in the main triangle...come on surly. There's a second bottle mount on the bottom of the down tube, but who likes drinking dirt?


My green has two bottle mounts, I wonder why the deleted the second?


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

The Surly site says small and medium have two, large and XL have three...but that most certainly is not the case.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

You mean Surly's specs are incorrect... I love my Surly's but accurate product spec listings is not their forte.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Apparently not...sure wish it had the third bottle mount. 

I've swore of my hydration pack!


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

It looks like neither of the two red Krampi pictured have mounts on the seat tubes. Though there are three mounts on the down tubes? Seems like an odd choice for them. The mounts on the underside of the down tube only make sense if they've already used the space on the seat tube.

Beautiful build, though. Enjoy!


ghughes.hesinc said:


> Apparently not...sure wish it had the third bottle mount.
> 
> I've swore of my hydration pack!


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

I sprung on a 15x110 boost hub and Manitou Machete fork the other day, will report back on running the Krampus at 140mm.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

lastchance said:


> I sprung on a 15x110 boost hub and Manitou Machete fork the other day, will report back on running the Krampus at 140mm.


First gen frame? I'm curious to hear how that turns out. I'm eyeing the Machete, but even the 100mm has an axle-to-crown length that concerns me.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

cjbiker said:


> First gen frame? I'm curious to hear how that turns out. I'm eyeing the Machete, but even the 100mm has an axle-to-crown length that concerns me.


Yeah, first gen frame. I rode a Fox Float 32 100mm for about 3/4 of a season and broke it, the 100mm is nice but I found the Machete for cheap at 140mm so I'll give it a whirl. What's your concern with the axle-to-crown?


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I thought Surly only recommended 120mm max travel fork. If yours is fine I may have to bump the Pikes up. They can go to 160mm which would be a little silly (Chromag territory) but 140mm may work.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

lastchance said:


> Yeah, first gen frame. I rode a Fox Float 32 100mm for about 3/4 of a season and broke it, the 100mm is nice but I found the Machete for cheap at 140mm so I'll give it a whirl. What's your concern with the axle-to-crown?


Just wondering how it will affect the handling of the bike. Plus that's a lot longer fork than the frame was designed for.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

500.8mm axle to crown for the fork I broke, 562mm axle to crown for the Machete 140mm 29+. Hahahahaha! 

Almost 2.5" longer plus going from 44mm to 51mm offset.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

lastchance said:


> 500.8mm axle to crown for the fork I broke, 562mm axle to crown for the Machete 140mm 29+. Hahahahaha!
> 
> Almost 2.5" longer plus going from 44mm to 51mm offset.


Yeah. I'm eager to hear your thoughts on how it rides.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

double post, sorry


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

cjbiker said:


> Yeah. I'm eager to hear your thoughts on how it rides.


I suppose it depends on riding style + terrain. I'm looking forward to the added stiffness up front going from a QR to 15mm TA, but who knows if I'll even notice?


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

lastchance said:


> I suppose it depends on riding style + terrain. I'm looking forward to the added stiffness up front going from a QR to 15mm TA, but who knows if I'll even notice?


Definitely. Everyone is different. I'm running a 100mm Recon on my Krampus. I had it on a Karate Monkey, and didn't care for the handling. I swapped all the parts from the KM over to a Krampus frame, and now I really like it. I'm limited to 2.4" tires though, so I'm thinking about swapping in a Manitou Magnum.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

cjbiker said:


> Definitely. Everyone is different. I'm running a 100mm Recon on my Krampus. I had it on a Karate Monkey, and didn't care for the handling. I swapped all the parts from the KM over to a Krampus frame, and now I really like it. I'm limited to 2.4" tires though, so I'm thinking about swapping in a Manitou Magnum.


I ran a 2.4 Conti MK2 on the factory 50mm RH... I thought to try it to be funny but man, it was awful, about the more square tire profile possible.

I'm currently on 35mm rims and Maxxis Chrons, which is 100% the best rim+tire combo ever, imo. Just perfect for what and how I ride.

Surly says 120mm sus fork corrected but there are plenty out there running 140mm forks and loving it. I don't know what it'll do for me, I don't know what I'll notice or how I'll notice it but I'm willing to take that chance.

Disclaimer - I'm in Colorado riding 2-3 times per week on varied trails, some super rocky and technical, others a mix of flowy ST and tech. I never asked for more travel or felt like it was necessary but my style points towards more travel than not. We'll see...


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

lastchance said:


> I sprung on a 15x110 boost hub and Manitou Machete fork the other day, will report back on running the Krampus at 140mm.


I currently run a 140 fox 34 on the front of my Original Krampus and I absolutely love it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

clydeone said:


> I currently run a 140 fox 34 on the front of my Original Krampus and I absolutely love it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Boom. There we go.

What do you ride, terrain-wise?


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## clydeone (Aug 9, 2009)

lastchance said:


> Boom. There we go.
> 
> What do you ride, terrain-wise?


Yeah I anticipated handling problems and figured I would have to change to 120 - but I do not anticipate doing it anymore. I am in Corvallis Oregon and ride lots of rooty and steep fall line trails - I have ridden Blackrock several times (no black trails but their blues and greens are lots of fun). I am not real comfortable in the air but I am getting better. Yes I like to go down hill fast and rough. For me the biggest change from rigid to suspension was in the braking - I was able to brake much later for corners as my front tire stayed on the ground more.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

clydeone said:


> Yeah I anticipated handling problems and figured I would have to change to 120 - but I do not anticipate doing it anymore. I am in Corvallis Oregon and ride lots of rooty and steep fall line trails - I have ridden Blackrock several times (no black trails but their blues and greens are lots of fun). I am not real comfortable in the air but I am getting better. Yes I like to go down hill fast and rough. For me the biggest change from rigid to suspension was in the braking - I was able to brake much later for corners as my front tire stayed on the ground more.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good, that's exactly what I'm looking for, I ride hard and fast so I think I'll be just fine coming from a 100mm going to a 140mm.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I had a 100mm Float 32 QR which I have just changed to a 120mm Pike 15TA. Am running Minion DHR2 on Flow MK3. The only issue I had with the Floats were that the back wheel takes a hammering. It is probably going to get worse with the Pikes especially as I have them stuffed with tokens. Am in SE England so nothing to rocky around here, lots roots and mud tho.

Am tempted to go up to 140mm as its only £30 for a new air shaft but am worried it may lift the front end too much. I already have a -2 degree headset which I really rate if you ride hard and fast. 

It will be interesting to hear all your thoughts on 140mm up front. I know Chromag do it on their Surface.


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## KVV (May 22, 2017)

If you have 2017 Krampus - what was the frame weight (and size)? Thx.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Does anyone know of videos/edits where a Krampus is getting ridden REALLY hard?


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

lastchance said:


> Does anyone know of videos/edits where a Krampus is getting ridden REALLY hard?


Not my vid...but this guys seems to be letting it go a bit...






And one more...


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Oh yeah, that's not too bad. What inspired me is the Orange Bikes (UK) "Crushin' It" video, maybe I'll make a video like that...


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## tirsintarsi (Feb 17, 2014)

I have dt swiss 240 hubs with Balle racings Hadley thru-Bolts 9x100mm and 10x135mm.

Edit: Sorry... Answered old old conversation by mistake.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> Not my vid...but this guys seems to be letting it go a bit...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just in case you've not seen it:


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

lastchance - you beat me to it. excellent video. its a shame Surly don't have a world class DH rider on their books...


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

fartymarty said:


> lastchance - you beat me to it. excellent video. its a shame Surly don't have a world class DH rider on their books...


Right? That video gets me so amped. I like to think I look that good charging down the hill but I'm sure I look slow, fat, and awkward.


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

I am slow fat and ugly, but that doesn't stop me









Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

love to see people shredding it with fully rigid!! IT CAN BE DONE!!!


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

sXeXBMXer said:


> love to see people shredding it with fully rigid!! IT CAN BE DONE!!!


It hurts so bad, though. I did it this morning and my body already hates me.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

lastchance said:


> It hurts so bad, though. I did it this morning and my body already hates me.


I hear ya. I guess I am just used to it though, having ridden fully rigid all my life. I also don't ride "hard" terrain as much, meaning that our trails tend to be muddier/softer rather than hard packed. But still rocky and rooty. The particular trails I ride are also not super flowy...more short ups and downs...but I still feel the ride.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

I have a bmx background and know it's helped me but man, full rigid sucks in Colorado.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Krampus with 120mm Pikes, Flow MK3 and DHR2.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

This is my skinny Krampus. I bought the frame used and swapped all the parts over from my Karate Monkey. I like the way the Krampus handles much better. I plan to build some real plus wheels, upgrade the fork, and will probably have to go 1x.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

cjbiker said:


> This is my skinny Krampus. I bought the frame used and swapped all the parts over from my Karate Monkey. I like the way the Krampus handles much better. I plan to build some real plus wheels, upgrade the fork, and will probably have to go 1x.
> 
> View attachment 1138874


Nice, dude!

Let me know if you want my Rabbit Holes, I'd be willing to throw in some plus tires if you scoop them up.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

lastchance said:


> Nice, dude!
> 
> Let me know if you want my Rabbit Holes, I'd be willing to throw in some plus tires if you scoop them up.


Thanks, but I've got a pair of rabbit holes and Maxxis Chronicles ready to go!


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Nice dude! 

What's on your rig now? Less than 35mm rims?


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

For the past two years I've only ridden my fat bike with either fat, 29+ or fat front, 29+ rear. I finally decided my 29er fully had to go. I never ride it. 
I was about to pull the trigger on an RSD Big Chief when I realized it only had a 27.2 seatpost which will probably slip under my weight. I need something with at least 30.9. 
Hmmm... a chromoly hardtail... what to get...
My new Dark black Krampus frame showed up at the bike shop today. Probably pick it up Saturday or Sunday. Can't wait.


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

NYrr496 said:


> For the past two years I've only ridden my fat bike with either fat, 29+ or fat front, 29+ rear. I finally decided my 29er fully had to go. I never ride it.
> I was about to pull the trigger on an RSD Big Chief when I realized it only had a 27.2 seatpost which will probably slip under my weight. I need something with at least 30.9.
> Hmmm... a chromoly hardtail... what to get...
> My new Dark black Krampus frame showed up at the bike shop today. Probably pick it up Saturday or Sunday. Can't wait.


Fyi the 2017 Big Chief is 30.9, the site is incorrect.

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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Guy.Ford said:


> Fyi the 2017 Big Chief is 30.9, the site is incorrect.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


Crap. Oh well... Too late. I thought it odd it would have come with a 27.2.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

lastchance said:


> Nice dude!
> 
> What's on your rig now? Less than 35mm rims?


Yeah, a cheap Sun Rhyno Lite wheelset from Nashbar.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

NYrr496 said:


> Crap. Oh well... Too late. I thought it odd it would have come with a 27.2.


Don't worry, I still think you made the right choice.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

cjbiker said:


> Don't worry, I still think you made the right choice.


I do too.


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## legopro87 (Nov 6, 2016)

Does anyone have a small frame Krampus in Berlin, Germany that my wife can take for a short test ride? There would be free beer! 

I'm considering building up a small frame Krampus for her but don't want to dump all the time and money into something that we're not sure would be a good fit. Her only mtb experience is on a 26" aluminum frame corrotec so its not just height we are worried about. A Krampus would be a huge change for her. I know its a bit of a long shot being located in Berlin but its worth asking around.


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

Problem with old fat and rigid is trying to keep up with young and suspended in the dark last fall crashed hard split helmet, broke two ribs, and my elbow still acts a little funny. Did not realize about the ribs till riding with a Dr the next night. But sure sure knew I was having a hard time keeping up.









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## Purdue22 (Dec 22, 2016)

Does anyone know the max A/C Surley recommends on its 2017-18 Krampus? What's the largest fork you all have put on a new Krampus? Any issues/how did it ride?


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## Magnuts (Mar 24, 2013)

My Instigator with my buddy's custom Krampus. Razors Edge, Canmore AB

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## Purdue22 (Dec 22, 2016)

What fork is that? Any issues and how does it handle? I just picked up a new Krampus frame and have a 2018 Fox Float 36. The 29+ chupacabras fit the fork so I am tempted even though Surley recommends only 120mm.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Purdue22 said:


> What fork is that? Any issues and how does it handle? I just picked up a new Krampus frame and have a 2018 Fox Float 36. The 29+ chupacabras fit the fork so I am tempted even though Surley recommends only 120mm.


I have a Machete on the way. It's 140mm, 20mm more than what Surly recommends for their "120mm corrected" Krampus. I'll let you and others know, coming from a Fox 100mm I wasn't dying for more travel but figured others have done 140mm (with good results) so I'm giving it a whirl.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Just wondering if the Surly recommended 120mm travel was for "correct" geometry or due to loads on the headtube from a longer fork? I am getting tempted to up my Pikes to 140mm.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

fartymarty said:


> Just wondering if the Surly recommended 120mm travel was for "correct" geometry or due to loads on the headtube from a longer fork? I am getting tempted to up my Pikes to 140mm.


That's what I'm wondering too but I guess I'll find out...

69.5* HT angle + 47mm offset fork + 483mm CTA on the Krampus. New 140mm is 562mm CTA + 51mm offset, which is quite a big difference but I don't know if that'll leave the bike feeling tighter in the cockpit, more stable, less stable, reduce or increase self-steering, etc.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Marty, this is a good read: Pushing the limits of fork offset: an experiment - BikeRadar USA

I don't know if I'm more confused after having read it, though.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I contacted Surly about maximum fork axle to crown and they said 530mm was the maximum but wouldn't say if this was related to head tube failure or geometry. 

I have just ordered a 140mm air shaft for my Pikes. It will be interesting to see how the geometry is affected as I think I have a good balance with 120mm travel-2 headset 50mm stem and 10mm rise 780mm bars. I have a feeling 140mm is going to affect climbing. But that.maybe a sacrifice woth making for the inproved descending and marginally slacker HA.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

I bet it's them being more worried about geometry getting mucked up than their engineer telling them the stress at the HT is too high. My reasoning - there are bikes at 140mm w/ a 69.5* (or close) HT angle and 51mm offset forks.

With that, just got this put together yesterday:

Hope Pro4 15mm TA laced to a WTB ASYM with the new Machete jobby.


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## Purdue22 (Dec 22, 2016)

Nice bike man. What is the length of that fork? Also let Ilya know how it handles after you give it a go. 

I've decided to put a 2018 Fox Float 160mm 51mm on my 2017 Krampus build. The Fork was a freebie from Fox so I think it was meant to be since the Chupacabras (29x3.0) fit the fork nicely. I am using the eRad kit (HD1000) too so hopefully the extra power will help with any of the negative changes in Geometry.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Purdue22 said:


> Nice bike man. What is the length of that fork? Also let Ilya know how it handles after you give it a go.
> 
> I've decided to put a 2018 Fox Float 160mm 51mm on my 2017 Krampus build. The Fork was a freebie from Fox so I think it was meant to be since the Chupacabras (29x3.0) fit the fork nicely. I am using the eRad kit (HD1000) too so hopefully the extra power will help with any of the negative changes in Geometry.


Thanks, my man!

It's 140mm, haven't trail tested it yet but Monday I'll take it out and put it through the ringer. At this length vs. the 100mm Fox Float I had the rig definitely feels taller at standover, there's a huge difference there in axle-to-crown... I'm anxious to see how it performs but at this point I have nothing but high hopes.

The Fox fork I had broke because I Dremeled out the arch, there was barely enough clearance anyway so I was definitely cognizant of that when riding, it always help me back knowing 9/10 times the front tire would rub after a big drop or air. The other thing about that fork was the steerer tube was cut too short by the previous owner so I ran it slammed by necessity, I got used to it but certain days it was pretty uncomfortable.


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## Magnuts (Mar 24, 2013)

Purdue22 said:


> What fork is that? Any issues and how does it handle? I just picked up a new Krampus frame and have a 2018 Fox Float 36. The 29+ chupacabras fit the fork so I am tempted even though Surley recommends only 120mm.


It's a carbon Taiwanese fork that RSD used to sell. It's light but pretty much garbage. He's hunting for a new fork currently.

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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

lastchance - you could always lose the spacers under the stem to get the bars a bit lower.

Also I recommend a -2 degree headset. This will also drop the front end to increase the extra fork length.

I am tempted to put the monkey nuts back in the rear drop outs to increase the chainstay length. I know most people want short rear ends but longer chainstays will help with the front rear balance and make it climb better. May require grinding the mech a little to fit the 42t cog but cest la vie.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

fartymarty said:


> lastchance - you could always lose the spacers under the stem to get the bars a bit lower.
> 
> Also I recommend a -2 degree headset. This will also drop the front end to increase the extra fork length.
> 
> I am tempted to put the monkey nuts back in the rear drop outs to increase the chainstay length. I know most people want short rear ends but longer chainstays will help with the front rear balance and make it climb better. May require grinding the mech a little to fit the 42t cog but cest la vie.


Defo have a -2° Cane Creek, needed it to convert the 44mm (straight) HT to tapered of the Manitou (and the older Fox fork prefiously).

I have probably 5mm on top of the stem and 12mm below it, I'll need to ride a few times to figure out if I need to drop or raise the bars. I suspect since I'm used to a slammed stem I'll hack off another 8-10mm from the steerer but I'm not about to sacrifice steerer length because I "think" the bars need to be dropped without a few hundred miles behind them.

I've always ridden a slammed wheel but currently have some space because my rear tire has a weird bulge that causes a bit of rub. Rim is true, tire's center line is dead on, both sides. Weird.

You should get the DT Swiss RWS axles, they're MAGIC and completely negate the need for monkey nuts or other tensioners.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Krampus + 140mm w/ 15TA is insane. 

The only real noticeable change (so far) is the bit sits taller at rest, I'll have to futz around with my saddle height/angle and bars to get this dialed in but I'm already in love with this fork.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Good to hear. I am hoping to get my Pikes cranked up to 140mm before a ride this Sunday.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Have cranked the Pikes up to 140mm and increased the CS length to 460mm (with monkey nuts re-installed). It goes down faster than the Tories majority in Westminster and seems to climb fairly well as well. It took a little grinding of the Zee mech but the monkey nuts lengthen the rear to offset the increase in bar height. I have mainly ridden down with a few small ups so can't comment on long steep ascents.


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## B-RAY (Jul 15, 2004)

lastchance said:


> Krampus + 140mm w/ 15TA is insane.
> 
> The only real noticeable change (so far) is the bit sits taller at rest, I'll have to futz around with my saddle height/angle and bars to get this dialed in but I'm already in love with this fork.


I have a Talas 36 130-160 on my Ti Carver and love it! When u take the forks sag into it not so bad, but so much fun. I also used a can creek angle adjust headset slacked it out 1 degree.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

lastchance said:


> Krampus + 140mm w/ 15TA is insane.
> 
> The only real noticeable change (so far) is the bit sits taller at rest, I'll have to futz around with my saddle height/angle and bars to get this dialed in but I'm already in love with this fork.


I didn't love my Krampus with a 130mm Fox 34 on it. It was a bit too tall/slacked out for bikepacking.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

vikb said:


> I didn't love my Krampus with a 130mm Fox 34 on it. It was a bit too tall/slacked out for bikepacking.


Yeah, I can see that for sure at 130-140mm.

I rode an absolutely punishing old OHV trail this morning and had a blast with miles (that's what it feels like at least) of squish up front.


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## Adam Moyers (Sep 26, 2016)

Is the new Krampus compatible with GX Eagle?

Thanks


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## Purdue22 (Dec 22, 2016)

Yeah so long as you go with a 30t or smaller chainring.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Changing up my Krampus. I sold my Rohloff hub Rabbit Hole wheel. I'll be running a 1x10 or SS setup in the future. The bike is in parts at the moment. I need to get off my butt and get her rolling again. :thumbsup:


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Vik, 

Why the change from the Rohloff?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

fartymarty said:


> Vik,
> 
> Why the change from the Rohloff?


I'm not doing the kinds of trips where the use of a Rohloff would be most beneficial - long remote trips where a weatherproof low maintenance hub is key.

1x10 drivetrains are lighter, cheaper and pretty robust these days. For the 1 or 2 week fair weather trips that I am more realistically going to undertake They are a better fit.

I've also started thinking that for a lot of the steeper bikepacking I've done I'd be just as far ahead to ride a SS. When trails are so steep it's hard to push your bike up you don't need a wide gear range drivetrain. You are walking up and coasting down so the only place you need to pedal is on flat to rolling terrain. I think a SS setup would be light, cheap and robust for that sort of trip.

I built up a Rabbit Hole + Hope hub wheel so I can run either 1x10 or go SS depending what makes sense for a specific trip. I could also carry the SS cog and spacers so I could go SS should I rip off my derailleur if that was a concern on a longer/remote trip.

As an engineer I dig lots about the Rohloff, but I just wasn't doing any trips where it was justified.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Survey says: 140mm travel makes for faster descents, my DH times are getting destroyed with this new fork.

Ascents though? Struggling. 

Why?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

lastchance said:


> Ascents though? Struggling.
> 
> Why?


The longer fork rotates the whole bike backwards. That changes your riding position. It worst on climbs because your putting less and less weight on the fork so it gets longer as it will have less sag.

I had to change my stem and bar position with a 130mm fork vs. stock rigid.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Ahhhh, gotcha. I've only put down 70-80 miles and haven't much futzed around with my positioning up front, perhaps it's time?

On the 100mm fork before I was running 100% slammed but only out of necessity (the steerer tube had been hacked short by the previous owner), I was quick on climbs with that. Maybe I need to drop my bars a bit, at the moment I have 25-35mm of stack, which is a lot, the bike already feels tall enough with the longer travel so on flat ground the bars feel sky-high for sure.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

lastchance, 

It is because the front is higher and you have more weight on the rear. It is the reason XC racers use negative rise stems. 

This is the reason I have added the Monkey Nuts in the rear of my frame. It lengthens the rear and stops the front popping up so much (still to be properly tested but that's my theory)

Things that will help : flat or low rise bars, a longer stem (I am now up to 50mm from 35mm), slamming the seat forward on the rails, maybe a -2 degree headset as this will drop the front slightly.

It's all a balancing game between ascending and descending. For me the issue with my Large Krampus is that it could do with a longer reach and steeper seat tube. Your weight is then balanced over the middle of the bike and it will climb and descend well. But saying that it is a 2012 bike and things have moved on a bit since then.

Let us know how you get on.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

lastchance - also lose the spacers under the stem as that will put more weight on the front. also thinking about it a -2 degree headset will slacken the HA but also steepen the seat angle which should transfer weight forward.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

fartymarty said:


> lastchance,
> 
> It is because the front is higher and you have more weight on the rear. It is the reason XC racers use negative rise stems.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this.

I have a box of stems, perhaps before hacking off another inch from the steerer I'll experiment with stem length/rise, stacking on top of the stem to drop the bars, etc. I really like the factory Salsa whatever-they-are bars that are wide and flat, have some risers but my shoulders are too broad to feel "stable" with 650-680s.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Vik - interesting on the Rohloff. 

I used to be of the opinion that gearboxes (and good IGHs) were the holy grail of mountainbiking but have recently have changed my mind due to a few reveiws on Pinion gearboxes. I had the Krampus set up as a single speed over winter and it was a revelation - it felt very efficient and mad you ride faster as you had to attack the hill to make it up them. I currently running 10 speed though as it's cheap and works relatively well despite the UK mud.

The beauty of the Krampus is it's so versatile. I guess 4000+ posts are testament to this.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

yeah wide bars help too. I'm on 780s but have pretty wide shoulders. I was riding a mates 740s over the weekend and they felt narrow.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Dropped on the stock 80mm stem, flipped, fully stacked with like 40mm of spacers - seeming solved my problem with a much more forward reach - down over the front end (again). 

We'll see if this helps with climbing.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

140mm Pikes. HA is about 64.5.


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## Purdue22 (Dec 22, 2016)

How did you come about 64.5 HA?


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

-2 degree headset and 140mm forks. It is probably about 65 as I have just compared to another bike with a 64.5 and its marginally steeper.


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## Purdue22 (Dec 22, 2016)

Thanks for the response man. I definitely am not starting an arguement/that is not what my comment is intended to, just trying to figure out if it is actually 65 HA how that happened? The legacy Krampus has an original HA of 69.5 right? So with the -2 degree headset that gets us to 67.5. Then the 140mm which is 20mm more travel than the 120mm it was based upon stock wouldn't that only get you to 66.5 (0.5 degree per 10mm)?


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I did measure it off a photo so there maybe a little error. The stock rigid fork has a 483mm AC (which gives the 69.5HA), the Pike at 140mm is 550mm, therefore 67mm extra.

I will do a little maths and drawing and see what I get.


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

anybody know if the new large frame has braze ons for 2 bottle cages inside the triangle? pictures just seem to show one. 

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## Purdue22 (Dec 22, 2016)

2017 Krampus size Large. See picture floor question above.


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

Purdue22 said:


> 2017 Krampus size Large. See picture floor question above.


thanks for the post. thats not what i was hoping for. why get rid of the bosses on the seat tube? i dont wear a pack and i need two bottles...

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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Yes, it sucks... I don't get it, why add fender, rack, anything cage mounts, mounts for everything except a second water bottle inside the triangle...


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

But it has internal cable routing!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

lastchance said:


> But it has internal cable routing!


You can't have everything!


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

vikb said:


> You can't have everything!


-Surly


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## tedi (Oct 13, 2011)

Hi. I am new here.
Few months ago got a rather doubtful blue krampus second hand.
I learned that its a 16". Though the engraving on the bb shell says M12****** hence an M from 2012.
Its blue. The previous owner mentioned it as a prototype(?) 
The blue he said is original.
Any thoughts or valid info?
Thanks


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## liem (Aug 28, 2005)

tedi said:


> Hi. I am new here.
> Few months ago got a rather doubtful blue krampus second hand.
> I learned that its a 16". Though the engraving on the bb shell says M12****** hence an M from 2012.
> Its blue. The previous owner mentioned it as a prototype(?)
> ...


One of Surly's recent blog posts indicates that the first prototypes were blue, so it may be legit.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

liem said:


> One of Surly's recent blog posts indicates that the first prototypes were blue, so it may be legit.


2017 KRAMPUS UPDATES, OR, IF YOU LIVED HERE, YOU'D BE HOME BY NOW | Blog | Surly Bikes

Yep. Does it look like this one?


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

how exactly do you mount two cages on the downtube? i see there are 3 bosses but i dont see how 2 bottles will fit 

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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

texasnavy05 said:


> how exactly do you mount two cages on the downtube? i see there are 3 bosses but i dont see how 2 bottles will fit
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


One on top and one on the bottom! There are now 2 bosses under the downtube. Why wouldn't they make three down there right away? From my experience, that under-the-downtube location works fine for bikepacking or mellower rides, but isn't ideal for techy riding. You may be able to get 2 bottles inside the triangle using one of the Wolf tooth B-RAD bases if you're on a bigger frame.

It does stink that they got ride of the bottle bosses on the seat tube. I'm guessing it has something to do with the bend, shorter seat tubes, and dropper compatibility. If there's room, you can always mount one there using another method, like hose clamps, electrical tape, SKS mounts, etc. Not ideal, but it will work.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bikeny said:


> From my experience, that under-the-downtube location works fine for bikepacking or mellower rides, but isn't ideal for techy riding.


I've done days of techy rough riding with bottles under the DT and it's totally fine. Having the weight down low is beneficial. I just use that bottle to refill a bottle mounted higher up as it's not a spot you are going to reach down and grab a bottle while riding.

You can add a couple bottle mounts to the seat tube inside the frame if you want a 3rd bottle. It's not a big deal. I suspect Surly didn't include brazeons there as that might have interfered with some droppers that need lots of insertion depth.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

vikb said:


> I've done days of techy rough riding with bottles under the DT and it's totally fine. Having the weight down low is beneficial. I just use that bottle to refill a bottle mounted higher up as it's not a spot you are going to reach down and grab a bottle while riding.
> 
> You can add a couple bottle mounts to the seat tube inside the frame if you want a 3rd bottle. It's not a big deal. I suspect Surly didn't include brazeons there as that might have interfered with some droppers that need lots of insertion depth.


I've broken bottle cages and bottles running them under the downtube on a Jones a few years back. When you need to get over big logs and large boulders they can get smashed.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bikeny said:


> I've broken bottle cages and bottles running them under the downtube on a Jones a few years back. When you need to get over big logs and large boulders they can get smashed.


They can get smashed I guess. I've done lots of that. I just lift the bike over the logs and rocks without trashing the under DT bottle. I've never damaged a bottle or cage in that position.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

So, hydration pack then?


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

vikb said:


> They can get smashed I guess. I've done lots of that. I just lift the bike over the logs and rocks without trashing the under DT bottle. I've never damaged a bottle or cage in that position.


I think it depends how and where we ride. I don't want to get off my bike and carry it over logs and rocks all the time, I want to ride over them. Again, I'm talking about general trail riding here. If I'm bikepacking, I'll be more more conservative and then stuff under the downtube is no problem.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

lastchance said:


> So, hydration pack then?


We just listed a bunch of ways to get another bottle inside the front triangle, did you read any of it?


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

Maybe this will help, maybe not eh..

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com...cts/products/b-rad-double-bottle-cage-adapter


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

bikeny said:


> I think it depends how and where we ride. I don't want to get off my bike and carry it over logs and rocks all the time, I want to ride over them. Again, I'm talking about general trail riding here. If I'm bikepacking, I'll be more more conservative and then stuff under the downtube is no problem.












I don't get off unless the obstacle is too big to ride over and I don't see how you are damaging that under the DT cage while riding.

If you smashed the cage under the DT on the Krampus you would be driving the log/rock into your chainring given where the cage sits. So you are not going to hit it on any log/rock you have a hope of riding over.

If you are just carelessly ramming your bike into obstacles without a second thought I can see damaging the cage, but if you are doing that and there is no cage there you chain and chainring will get killed instead. So I wouldn't recommend it.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

vikb said:


> I don't get off unless the obstacle is too big to ride over and I don't see how you are damaging that under the DT cage while riding.
> 
> If you smashed the cage under the DT on the Krampus you would be driving the log/rock into your chainring given where the cage sits. So you are not going to hit it on any log/rock you have a hope of riding over.
> 
> If you are just carelessly ramming your bike into obstacles without a second thought I can see damaging the cage, but if you are doing that and there is no cage there you chain and chainring will get killed instead. So I wouldn't recommend it.


Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Yup, sometimes I try to ride over big logs, sometimes my chainring hits those logs, sometimes I crash, sometimes I make it over, sometimes when there was a bottle and cage under the downtube they would break. Therefore I don't run them in that location when trail riding. I'm done with this conversation.

On another note, I was looking over the Jones blog earlier and noticed the Plus also doesn't have bottle mounts on the seat tube. It does have 2 sets on the top of the down tube and a triple set on the bottom of the downtube.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

bikeny said:


> Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Yup, sometimes I try to ride over big logs, sometimes my chainring hits those logs, sometimes I crash, sometimes I make it over, sometimes when there was a bottle and cage under the downtube they would break.


I can confirm this happens. It's extremely uncommon out here in The West™, like getting wide bars stuck between two trees, but when I was riding trail down in The South® you'd come across logs all scarred up from chainrings that could absolutely crush a bottle cage down there if you hit them wonky.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

hirschmj said:


> ... you'd come across logs all scarred up from chainrings that could absolutely crush a bottle cage down there if you hit them wonky.


Okay we can all agree that if you ram your bike into obstacles you can damage a bottle under the DT. My solution would be to not ram the bike into obstacles since that's likely to cause issues with your DT even without a bottle mounted there. That seems to be Surly's take on it as well.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Check out this blog post about adding riv nuts to the bottom of a DT on a Surly frame for a Salsa Anything cage. Same approach would work on the ST of a Krampus MK3 as long as they didn't interfere with your seatpost of choice. 

https://gypsybytrade.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/bigger-and-bigger/

Of course you'd have to drill holes in your frame. If that bothers you hose clamps would also work and would be removeable.


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

bikeny said:


> We just listed a bunch of ways to get another bottle inside the front triangle, did you read any of it?


You must be fun at parties. Grump.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

lastchance said:


> You must be fun at parties. Grump.


And you must be one of those people that asks a question and then doesn't listen to the answer...


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

bikeny said:


> And you must be one of those people that asks a question and then doesn't listen to the answer...


For suggesting a hydration pack?

Side note: you said you were done with this conversation.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

lastchance said:


> For suggesting a hydration pack?
> 
> Side note: you said you were done with this conversation.


I was done with the conversation about breaking bottle cages mounted under the downtube!:thumbsup:

I hate hydration packs! It's so much nicer riding without one, especially when it's 95 deg. with 98% humidity!

I don't know if I'd go as far as drilling holes in the seat tube of my new frame though...


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

bikeny said:


> I was done with the conversation about breaking bottle cages mounted under the downtube!:thumbsup:
> 
> I hate hydration packs! It's so much nicer riding without one, especially when it's 95 deg. with 98% humidity!
> 
> I don't know if I'd go as far as drilling holes in the seat tube of my new frame though...


I feel ya, I hate hydration packs with a passion, I rode with one for a few seasons before ditching it for regular bottles... Then again, I have an OG Krampus, not the silly new one with no mounts. Haha!

I wouldn't mod my frame for bottles, either.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

lastchance said:


> I feel ya, I hate hydration packs with a passion, I rode with one for a few seasons before ditching it for regular bottles... Then again, I have an OG Krampus, not the silly new one with no mounts. Haha!
> 
> I wouldn't mod my frame for bottles, either.


I did the same, Camelbaks for a few seasons and then back to water bottles. I don't have a Krampus at all, but I do have a 29+ Waltworks, and you can bet it has mounts on the seat tube as well as above and below the downtube.

If I had a frame I needed to add mounts to, I would use either these:

https://www.amazon.com/SKS-Germany-11313-Anywhere-Bicycle-Attachment/dp/B00ZFHW1MI

or the King USB mounts:

King Cage - Bicycle waterbottle cages handmade in Durango, CO


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

bikeny said:


> I did the same, Camelbaks for a few seasons and then back to water bottles. I don't have a Krampus at all, but I do have a 29+ Waltworks, and you can bet it has mounts on the seat tube as well as above and below the downtube.
> 
> If I had a frame I needed to add mounts to, I would use either these:
> 
> ...


I use the SKS mounts to put an Anything Cage on my fork. They work surprisingly well.


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## Gary in VA (May 4, 2004)

I visited The Broken Spoke shop in Santa Fe yesterday looking for a new bike for my 10 year old son. Found a nice Jamis 26" disk on sale. Talked to the salesman about me needing a new bike soon to replace my 2003 Fisher 29er. Test rode a med '17 Krampus. I'm like it a lot.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Gary - You can't go wrong with what is probably the most versatile bike ever made.


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## Gary in VA (May 4, 2004)

I'm trying to decide between the 2017 Krampus and Karate Monkey. Been forever since I've bought a bike. Can someone explain the advantages/disadvantages of both wheel sizes (27+ vs 29+)?


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Gary in VA said:


> I'm trying to decide between the 2017 Krampus and Karate Monkey. Been forever since I've bought a bike. Can someone explain the advantages/disadvantages of both wheel sizes (27+ vs 29+)?


100% preference, imho. What's your riding style? Where are you riding? How often? Terrain? These are all questions that will be asked.

With that, I don't know that you'd miss one if you chose the other, i.e. - there's no bad decision between a KM and Krampus.


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## Gary in VA (May 4, 2004)

lastchance said:


> 100% preference, imho. What's your riding style? Where are you riding? How often? Terrain? These are all questions that will be asked.
> 
> With that, I don't know that you'd miss one if you chose the other, i.e. - there's no bad decision between a KM and Krampus.


I'm an old, fat man who will be plodding along the trails of the northern New Mexico mountains (Los Alamos). I do enjoy going fast every now and then but it's not what will keep me on the bike, getting exercise and enjoying the desert will do that. I've been off the bike for several years because of arthritis but I have that under control now with diet. Will be riding 2-4 times a week (have trails within 100 yards of my front door). I plan on getting a rigid build first and after I've built up some fitness will add a suspension fork. I'm 5'8" and have ridden a 29er in the past (15.5" frame) and have thought that I might be too short to ride that big of a wheel.

Anyway, I have a couple months before the funds are available for a new bike so I have time to figure out what to get. Thanks for the help.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

You're well within the height range to have plenty of fun on a 29+ I'm under 5'8" and ride a medium Krampus for mtb riding I run a 50mm stem and 750mm wide smooth move bars with 75mm rise. The Krampus is the most versatile bike I have ever owned and remains my favourite bike. 27.5+ does not offer the same roll over and momentum that 29+ has. Having said that I'm fortunate to run super light carbon rimmed wheelset tubeless which eliminates the comprises of weight for 29+ its like having my cake and... Bottom line I wouldn't consider your height as a factor in your choice. 


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

You'll quickly outgrow a full rigid bike if you go Krampus. Also, please be aware of how tall any sus fork at or over 120mm will make the Krampus. You might have the perfect cockpit with the stock rigid fork but once you add a bunch of CTA mm, you're all of a sudden on a penny farthing.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

lastchance said:


> You'll quickly outgrow a full rigid bike if you go Krampus. Also, please be aware of how tall any sus fork at or over 120mm will make the Krampus. You might have the perfect cockpit with the stock rigid fork but once you add a bunch of CTA mm, you're all of a sudden on a penny farthing.


NO! There are plenty of people here who have not 'outgrown' a rigid bike, it's all about your needs and wants. Many people do not need any suspension, but end up with a FS bike because that's what everyone tells them they are supposed to have. I've been happily riding without any suspension for at least the last 10 years, and my local trails are anything but smooth. I decided a long time ago that I'd rather slow down a bit for that rock garden in exchange for a lighter, simpler, more efficient ride. And no, putting a suspension fork on a Krampus will not make it a Penny Farthing. A 100mm to 120mm fork will not change the geometry much once you factor in fork sag. That's why it's called a 'suspension corrected rigid fork'!


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## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

bikeny said:


> NO! There are plenty of people here who have not 'outgrown' a rigid bike, it's all about your needs and wants. Many people do not need any suspension, but end up with a FS bike because that's what everyone tells them they are supposed to have. I've been happily riding without any suspension for at least the last 10 years, and my local trails are anything but smooth. I decided a long time ago that I'd rather slow down a bit for that rock garden in exchange for a lighter, simpler, more efficient ride. And no, putting a suspension fork on a Krampus will not make it a Penny Farthing. A 100mm to 120mm fork will not change the geometry much once you factor in fork sag. That's why it's called a 'suspension corrected rigid fork'!


I'm not going to argue with you again, so okay, you win.

Take **** for face value, man. I'm not steering him any direction other than the path I've taken, I guess next time I'll add "YMMV".


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## gooseberry1 (Mar 16, 2016)

Hold up I love my krampus for my weekly rides with groups and going up to the Mesa and only ride the easy bike when needed for long days in saddle. People bikes are for fun and I will not sell the krampus because it's that bmx bike I had as kid with gears. Oh ya I just did my first ride on a deadwood and it was pretty nice. 


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## monogod (Feb 10, 2006)

lastchance said:


> You'll quickly outgrow a full rigid bike if you go Krampus. Also, please be aware of how tall any sus fork at or over 120mm will make the Krampus. You might have the perfect cockpit with the stock rigid fork but once you add a bunch of CTA mm, you're all of a sudden on a penny farthing.


100% bovine excrement.

for starters, the proper nomenclature is "rigid bike". "full rigid bike" is redundant.

hardtail = solid frame with squishy fork. 
full squish = self explanatory. 
rigid = hardtail frame with rigid fork.

next, the thousands of people riding a rigid krampus in the gnar are proof it's not quickly outgrown. a rigid krampus is an absolute blast to ride! a 3.0 tubeless tyre soaks up an amazing amount of trail static.

finally, a 120mm squishy fork on a krampus will not result in a penny farthing. in fact, it will handle exactly the same as the stock rigid fork because the stock fork is 120mm suspension corrected.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

It's not that you can't ride a rigid Krampus in rough terrain because you can. I would be more than happy to ride a rigid Krampus down a WC DH track but it will be a lot faster with 120mm (or 140mm as some of us have) up front.

For me it is how much you can get out of a 29HT. 

Its the same reason I am using 2.4 Minion DHR2 as they're faster than plus tyres when you are pushing it hard.

I get why others run their Krampusii rigid and SS... it depends what you are into and ride.


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

if the karate monkey fits a 29x3 tire, what is the argument to get a krampus? i realize there is a bit more clearance, but i never ride in mud and will mostly be on buff singletrack. and, id really like to have the extra water bottle cage bosses

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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Texasnavy - Geometry maybe?


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## bubba13 (Nov 30, 2009)

texasnavy05 said:


> if the karate monkey fits a 29x3 tire, what is the argument to get a krampus? i realize there is a bit more clearance, but i never ride in mud and will mostly be on buff singletrack. and, id really like to have the extra water bottle cage bosses
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Krampus owners will enjoy more BB drop and can run the rear axle nested tightly against the front of the dropouts with 29+. The RED also happens to be the best Surly color currently offered.

More water bottle options? You can add two to the fork if needed.


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

bubba13 said:


> Krampus owners will enjoy more BB drop and can run the rear axle nested tightly against the front of the dropouts with 29+. The RED also happens to be the best Surly color currently offered.
> 
> More water bottle options? You can add two to the fork if needed.


i really prefer 2 bottles inside the triangle i know its nit-picky. and wouldn't mind trading a slightly higher bb and slightly longer chainstay for the extra bottle.

so i guess ill be alright with it. i do like that red though...

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## Gary in VA (May 4, 2004)

The red in person on the new Krampus is pretty eye popping. I like it and I don't really care for red bikes.


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## mountaindude (Jun 27, 2017)

Gary in VA said:


> The red in person on the new Krampus is pretty eye popping. I like it and I don't really care for red bikes.


I was just about to say the same thing. I'm getting ready to do a custom build on my 2017 Krampus frame and the red paint is stunning.


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## Rasky (Dec 22, 2014)

Same here. I'm not really a red fan but I'm really happy with how my Krampus looks especially with the polished components.


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## mountaindude (Jun 27, 2017)

Looks hot. Nice work. Can't wait to get mine put together.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

My LBS said it would be 6 weeks or so before they can get a large Krampus frame and it looks like Bikeman does not have any in stock either. Anyone know of any other online store that has a large in stock?


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

texasnavy05 said:


> i really prefer 2 bottles inside the triangle i know its nit-picky. and wouldn't mind trading a slightly higher bb and slightly longer chainstay for the extra bottle.
> 
> so i guess ill be alright with it. i do like that red though...
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


It looks to me like the new Karate Monkey also doesn't have bottle mounts on the seat tube. Disappointing!


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

bikeny said:


> It looks to me like the new Karate Monkey also doesn't have bottle mounts on the seat tube. Disappointing!


xs-m dont have them on seat tube but large and xl do.

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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

texasnavy05 said:


> xs-m dont have them on seat tube but large and xl do.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Gotcha, just found that in the frame highlights section. Still don't understand why Surly wouldn't do the same on the Krampus. Looking at the geometry charts, there isn't much difference between the 2. The biggest is the BB drop, which is 10mm more on the Krampus. The KM chainstays are listed as shorter, but I suspect that's at the shortest setting, so to run 29x3 tires you would have to run it longer,


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

bikeny said:


> Gotcha, just found that in the frame highlights section. Still don't understand why Surly wouldn't do the same on the Krampus. Looking at the geometry charts, there isn't much difference between the 2. The biggest is the BB drop, which is 10mm more on the Krampus. The KM chainstays are listed as shorter, but I suspect that's at the shortest setting, so to run 29x3 tires you would have to run it longer,


i think they wanted more insertion depth on the krampus for deep seated dropper posts. thats the only reason that would make sense to me.

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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

bikeny said:


> Gotcha, just found that in the frame highlights section. Still don't understand why Surly wouldn't do the same on the Krampus. Looking at the geometry charts, there isn't much difference between the 2. The biggest is the BB drop, which is 10mm more on the Krampus. The KM chainstays are listed as shorter, but I suspect that's at the shortest setting, so to run 29x3 tires you would have to run it longer,


Last time I checked, the frame highlights for the Krampus also stated three bottle mounts for the L and XL... I would question whether the KM actually has them. Fore sure, my XL Krampus does not.


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> Last time I checked, the frame highlights for the Krampus also stated three bottle mounts for the L and XL... I would question whether the KM actually has them. Fore sure, my XL Krampus does not.


the picture of the purple km on surlys website has them on the seat tube. not sure if that is going to carry on to all frames though

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## tedi (Oct 13, 2011)

Have i asked this question before?
Has anyone put 27.5+ tires on krampus and compare the ride with a karate monkey 27.5+ ?


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## BmoreKen (Sep 27, 2004)

My LBS shows they're out of stock. Anyone know what the deal is? When will they be releasing or restocking? I need a large, dammit!


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

tedi said:


> Have i asked this question before?
> Has anyone put 27.5+ tires on krampus and compare the ride with a karate monkey 27.5+ ?


One thing's for sure, it's going to have a really low bottom bracket!


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## HappyCamperAK (Dec 24, 2014)

tedi said:


> Have i asked this question before?
> Has anyone put 27.5+ tires on krampus and compare the ride with a karate monkey 27.5+ ?


I intend to try it. The Krampus was supposedly designed around being able to run 29+ or regular 29ers. Therefore a 27.5+, being roughly the same diameter as a 29er, should still work.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

*Krampus 69er*









It is funny that 275 is mentioned as I have just stuck a 26 on the rear. It's mainly as a joke but I am willing to give it the benefit of the doubt and take it out of the garage for a carpark test.

I have been following the Geometron thread (on mtbr) and they have been using 29F 275R with a lot of success and intuitive steering.

I think though with a hardtail you need a bigger rear wheel to get over the bumps. As such I am sure that the 29 will be going back on the rear. Plus I am sure I would get some silly looks if I took it out for a proper ride.

Sorry forgot to mention it has a 63.5HA and 305mm BB. Low and slack boxes ticked.


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## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

I have been running my krampus 650B Plus rear with 29 Plus front. It works really well. My bottom bracket height is dead center at 13 with 3.0 tires. As far as bottom bracket being to low if run 27.5 plus all around, not so sure would be much lower than some of these other new 27.5 Plus bikes out now that are running close to 12.0 bb height, like the pedalhead or kona honzo. If I went 27.5 plus 3.0 tires with my reba 120 fork, doing the math would drop my bb to around 12.25 from my current setup. If you need more clearance, throw a 130mm fork and bike would probably be golden! 

I still cannot get over how much I love my krampus, did a 3 hour ride yesterday and amazes me how it can eat up the chucky stuff, but still can move it around when needed and climb switchbacks.


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## Keith_PDX (Jun 14, 2017)

SSsteel4life said:


> I have been running my krampus 650B Plus rear with 29 Plus front. It works really well. My bottom bracket height is dead center at 13 with 3.0 tires. As far as bottom bracket being to low if run 27.5 plus all around, not so sure would be much lower than some of these other new 27.5 Plus bikes out now that are running close to 12.0 bb height, like the pedalhead or kona honzo. If I went 27.5 plus 3.0 tires with my reba 120 fork, doing the math would drop my bb to around 12.25 from my current setup. If you need more clearance, throw a 130mm fork and bike would probably be golden!
> 
> I still cannot get over how much I love my krampus, did a 3 hour ride yesterday and amazes me how it can eat up the chucky stuff, but still can move it around when needed and climb switchbacks.


What fork are you running?


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## Taylor623 (Nov 17, 2016)

I love my Krampus. It doesn't excel in everything, but man it sure is fun.

I would like to get my leg over a new frame and see if its something worth changing.



tedi said:


> Hi. I am new here.
> Few months ago got a rather doubtful blue krampus second hand.
> I learned that its a 16". Though the engraving on the bb shell says M12****** hence an M from 2012.
> Its blue. The previous owner mentioned it as a prototype(?)
> ...


Blue is a QPB employee color code. So when the Krampus was released the Bass Boat green was quite expensive so if someone was going to get a pro deal on one it was the "Bruised Baby Blue" to keep the cost down.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Wow that Blue is nice. Is it metallic? Do you have the RAL code for it?


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## Taylor623 (Nov 17, 2016)

fartymarty said:


> Wow that Blue is nice. Is it metallic? Do you have the RAL code for it?


It is not Metallic, and I don't have the RAL code for it.


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## Snowie (Jul 8, 2016)

Getting my hands on a Krampus frame next month as soon as they land and looking on building it a SS. Now being a noobie and not getting my head around mech stuff too well, the question is what would be a recommendation for the chainset/cranks/front ring? Mr. Whirly? RF Narrow Wide? Something else? What do I need to take in consideration? Going with size L, being 6'2" with a 37" PBH and with no wish to be too stretched over. Pretty much got the build list covered, but still to figure out the drive train, only to know that it will be a SS for now and maybe a Rohloff later on.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

bikeny said:


> I was done with the conversation about breaking bottle cages mounted under the downtube!:thumbsup:
> 
> I hate hydration packs! It's so much nicer riding without one, especially when it's 95 deg. with 98% humidity!
> 
> I don't know if I'd go as far as drilling holes in the seat tube of my new frame though...


 So many options. Check out two fish for putting bottles anywhere. Stem cage, back of seat cage, 2 bottles next to each other cage. Topeak and other can fit a 48 oz bottle to their cages, feed bag on the handlebar or top tube......


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> Krampus owners will enjoy more BB drop and can run the rear axle nested tightly against the front of the dropouts with 29+. The RED also happens to be the best Surly color currently offered.
> 
> More water bottle options? You can add two to the fork if needed.


 Red? I'll take your red and top it with a lemon lime pearl with my 1x1. IMHO.


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

i really wanted 2 bottle cages inside the triangle and was looking at the karate monkey. turns out a chupacabra will fit in the karate monkey. so for a slightly higher bb i can get my braze ons. still debating what to do though. 

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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

texasnavy05 said:


> if the karate monkey fits a 29x3 tire, what is the argument to get a krampus? i realize there is a bit more clearance, but i never ride in mud and will mostly be on buff singletrack. and, id really like to have the extra water bottle cage bosses
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


 Older KM owner here. 29x3 will fit in the back? Hmmm. Running front der, fender and rack, that might need to change I'm guessing.


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

leeboh said:


> Older KM owner here. 29x3 will fit in the back? Hmmm. Running front der, fender and rack, that might need to change I'm guessing.


on the new km frame. sorry i forgot that.

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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

On my road bikes I adjust the caliper brakes so as the wheel spins and stops you can tell it's not binding because it starts slowly rotating in the other direction for a bit before completely coming to a stop. 

I can't seem to quite get there with my disc brakes on the Krampus. I've never owned a bike with disc brakes before... is this an unreasonable expectation? If not, any tips on getting this adjusted just so? 

Thanks!


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

cjbiker said:


> This is my skinny Krampus. I bought the frame used and swapped all the parts over from my Karate Monkey. I like the way the Krampus handles much better. I plan to build some real plus wheels, upgrade the fork, and will probably have to go 1x.
> 
> View attachment 1138874


Quoting myself here for context.

I am toying with the idea of buying a new Krampus. I have a Manitou Magnum fork on order. My plan was to put the fork on the Krampus, build up a new set of wheels (Rabbit hole rims, boost front hub to fit the fork, 135 rear hub), go to 1x (new crank, cassette, maybe new rear derailleur and shifter). Adding up the total, I think I could sell what I have and buy the new Krampus for about the same total cost. The new frame is marginally different (longer, lower, etc). I like the idea of that. The downside is that the stock build on the new Krampus isn't the highest end. It's serviceable, but what I have now is a little better.

Any thoughts?


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## mountaindude (Jun 27, 2017)

Took my custom Krampus on her maiden voyage yesterday. She seems quite happy in Colorado. What a magnificent machine. Surly nailed it. Climbs and descends great and is fast, nimble and, yes, fun!

It's my first plus bike coming off of a light cross-country single speed with a squishy fork. After taking demo rides on the Woodsmoke and Karate Monkey it confirmed the Krampus. I ordered the frame without having ridden one off road and couldn't be happier with my choice.

The Woodsmoke 29+ was a blast but I don't trust press fit bottom brackets. Also, I was expending a lot of energy keeping the front tire planted on steep climbs. Other renters left some alarming dings in the carbon frame.

The KM was great too. I just wanted more rollover and don't feel like I sacrificed much of anything in nimbleness.

Build kit:

Sram X1 crank
Absoluteblack 30T oval chainring 3mm boost offset
Sram X1 shifter/GX derailleur 
TRP Spyke brakes 180/180
WTB Ranger tires
Stan's Baron wheels
e*thirteen 9-44-tooth cassette 
WTB Volt Pro saddle
Crank Brothers Highline dropper post
Crank Brothers Egg Beater pedals

Not that I really care, but it came in under 28 pounds. (size medium)

One odd part about the build. I'm presently running a 725 mm carbon handlebar and 70 mm stem, which was sitting around in the parts bin. I don't know if I'm sold on the super-wide bars but may settle on 750 mm. Surprisingly, I didn't feel like I was missing much leverage with the narrower bar and it certainly came in handy when negotiating trees.


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## Keith_PDX (Jun 14, 2017)

Looking great! Any plans to add a suspension fork?


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## mountaindude (Jun 27, 2017)

No, not on planning on adding a suspension fork just yet. I'm having a lot of fun riding it as is. Singlespeeding taught me to choose efficient lines and maintain momentum, so I'm going to see how far I can push a rigid frame. Love the simplicity and reliability. The Karate Monkey I rode had a Yari fork, Reverb dropper and Dirt Wizard tires. It was a real trail beast but harder to pedal uphill, probably because of the heavy tires... more than anything.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

Plan to get her dirty tomorrow: new to me Krampus frame, 2018 29+ pike...


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## Purdue22 (Dec 22, 2016)

Love the black on black above, nice job man. Not sure if I posted before here, but this is my eKrampus (1000W motor with 140mm Pike). Awesome bike and loads of fun on the trails.


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## mountaindude (Jun 27, 2017)

Looks badass. Have fun. You're going to love it.


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## unclechet (Nov 13, 2015)

Here's my new Krampus. I guess it's a 2017. I've converted it to SS and removed everything that it doesn't need to go. Also set it up tubeless. Comes in about 29 pounds. I spent a week riding it around Hermosa, Colorado geared and just loved it! It's kinda heavy but carries it's weight well! Friday I'm heading up to Kansas City to race it in the Single Speed Kansas City race. Should be fun!


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## unclechet (Nov 13, 2015)

By the way, I'm sad I can't mount a bottle cage to the seat tube. I need another water bottle where I can get it more than I need a dropper seat post. Maybe I'm in the minority. Otherwise I love it! It really wheelies good.


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

Fourthousandonehundredeleven posts and counting.

The mountain bike hall of fame should have this bike as the first one you see when you walk In...


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

unclechet said:


> By the way, I'm sad I can't mount a bottle cage to the seat tube. I need another water bottle where I can get it more than I need a dropper seat post. Maybe I'm in the minority. Otherwise I love it! It really wheelies good.


bums me out too. im considering a karate monkey for that reason.

any idea what the stock wheels and tires weigh?

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## mountaindude (Jun 27, 2017)

unclechet said:


> By the way, I'm sad I can't mount a bottle cage to the seat tube. I need another water bottle where I can get it more than I need a dropper seat post. Maybe I'm in the minority. Otherwise I love it! It really wheelies good.


Yes, that's my only complaint as well. However, I have an Anything Cage on my size medium. It carries a two-liter bottle on the down tube no problem. The bottle mount situation is the same on Karate Monkeys for the medium to smaller sizes.


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## unclechet (Nov 13, 2015)

I don't have any idea on the weight of the wheels or tires. It was very easy to set the wheels up tubeless however and that saved a couple of pounds. The tires might be heavy but they grip really well and I think they'll stand up to sharp rocky trails.


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## Keith_PDX (Jun 14, 2017)

unclechet said:


> I don't have any idea on the weight of the wheels or tires. It was very easy to set the wheels up tubeless however and that saved a couple of pounds. The tires might be heavy but they grip really well and I think they'll stand up to sharp rocky trails.


You took two tubes out, added 4+ ounces of sealant and LOST two pounds!? Those were some crazy heavy tubes!


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## Sandman29 (Jan 22, 2009)

Keith_PDX said:


> You took two tubes out, added 4+ ounces of sealant and LOST two pounds!? Those were some crazy heavy tubes!


That's how Surly is cutting costs they are putting those cheap 2 pound tubes in the bikes. They think we would have never noticed. Good thing this forum has gotten to the bottom this scandal.


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## unclechet (Nov 13, 2015)

Sandman29 said:


> That's how Surly is cutting costs they are putting those cheap 2 pound tubes in the bikes. They think we would have never noticed. Good thing this forum has gotten to the bottom this scandal.


They're big tubes! My scale is an old spring scale so who knows. It certainly feels like it spins up faster. Glad I could make you laugh&#8230;&#8230;...


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## mountaindude (Jun 27, 2017)

What size tubes are guys using for trailside emergencies? Those 3.0 tubes are huge and heavy. I've heard of some plus riders carrying regular 29er tubes.


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

mountaindude said:


> What size tubes are guys using for trailside emergencies? Those 3.0 tubes are huge and heavy. I've heard of some plus riders carrying regular 29er tubes.


29er tubes do work, but they're stretched pretty thin once they fill up the 3.0 tire. If you're somewhere there's thorns or sharp rocks be extra careful, and definitely feel around the inside of the tire for any leftover sharp stuff, but I can confirm normal 29er tubes do work and that's what I've been carrying.


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## rbrang (Aug 3, 2017)

Hey! What kind of fenders are those and where can I get them? I have an ogre/ecr and I'm trying to get it fit. It's already failed sks and planetbike due to limited tire clearance. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.


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## bubba13 (Nov 30, 2009)

rbrang said:


> Hey! What kind of fenders are those and where can I get them? I have an ogre/ecr and I'm trying to get it fit. It's already failed sks and planetbike due to limited tire clearance. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.


I am not sure what post you are referring to, but Big O Manufacturing sells fender kits specifically for 29x3.0 tires. They sell online. No experience with them, but plan to get a set for my new Krampus before the wet season.


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## fatbikenewbie (Jan 13, 2015)

*FWIW: Duro Crux 3.25x29 fit on new 2017 Krampus*



bubba13 said:


> I am not sure what post you are referring to, but Big O Manufacturing sells fender kits specifically for 29x3.0 tires. They sell online. No experience with them, but plan to get a set for my new Krampus before the wet season.


Dear Folks: Not wanting to start new thread so...
Just put on Duro crux 3.25x29's front and back on 2017 Krampus, purchased from Jeff Jones. IMHO, WAY nicer than stock dirt wizards, although DW's were very grippy. DC 3.25's more supple, more Cush, and noticeably less rolling resistance than DW 60 TPI's. You just cant slam them all the way forward, thanks for all the great info!!!


----------



## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

fatbikenewbie said:


> Dear Folks: Not wanting to start new thread so...
> Just put on Duro crux 3.25x29's front and back on 2017 Krampus, purchased from Jeff Jones. IMHO, WAY nicer than stock dirt wizards, although DW's were very grippy. DC 3.25's more supple, more Cush, and noticeably less rolling resistance than DW 60 TPI's. You just cant slam them all the way forward, thanks for all the great info!!!


Do you have pictures?


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## Andrew Kirkwood (Jul 17, 2011)

Has anyone tried regular 29x2.5 tyres on the 2017 Krampus? Any BB height issues?


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Andrew Kirkwood said:


> Has anyone tried regular 29x2.5 tyres on the 2017 Krampus? Any BB height issues?


If you go back a few pages, I posted pics and my impression of the Krampus with 29x2.4 tires. I love it. I have less pedal strikes than I did with the same setup on a 2016 Karate Monkey frame, so no BB height issues for me.


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## Andrew Kirkwood (Jul 17, 2011)

Sorry, for once I didn't read through first! I knew I would get caught out!

Thanks CJ I will go and have a look. The geometry of the new KM & Krampus appear very similar I have to say.


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## Andrew Kirkwood (Jul 17, 2011)

CJ your comments were in relation to the older green Krampus, it's BB clearance on the 2017 model running 29x2.5 I am interested in. The thing is I have never tried 29x3 before and on the chance that I don't like it I just want to be assured that 29x2.5 will not cause pedal strikes if I make the change to the narrower tyres.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Andrew Kirkwood said:


> Sorry, for once I didn't read through first! I knew I would get caught out!
> 
> Thanks CJ I will go and have a look. The geometry of the new KM & Krampus appear very similar I have to say.


No problem, I just didn't want to retype my post. The old KM had a 68mm BB drop. The 2017 is 55mm. The Krampus went the other way, from 60 to 65mm.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Andrew Kirkwood said:


> CJ your comments were in relation to the older green Krampus, it's BB clearance on the 2017 model running 29x2.5 I am interested in. The thing is I have never tried 29x3 before and on the chance that I don't like it I just want to be assured that 29x2.5 will not cause pedal strikes if I make the change to the narrower tyres.


Good question, going back to the old Karate Monkey, which was designed for 29x2.4 and had a 68mm BB drop, I'd say it would work. I did have more pedal strikes than I cared for with that setup, so keep that in mind. If you put a suspension fork on your new Krampus, that will raise the BB, FYI.


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## Andrew Kirkwood (Jul 17, 2011)

Thanks CJ.... so a 120mm suspension fork should raise it a little over the stock rigid is that correct?


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Andrew Kirkwood said:


> Thanks CJ.... so a 120mm suspension fork should raise it a little over the stock rigid is that correct?


Yes, depending on what fork you get. The Manitou Magnum 120mm 29+ fork is 550mm a-c, so that will raise it a lot.


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## iocopocomaioco (Apr 4, 2016)

mine's practically new and up on ebay (the only one listed) if anyone fancy buying one - it's an L frame.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zs3889 (Apr 14, 2017)

Found a 2014 Surly Krampus on local CL for $900. Saddle will be included but no pedals (I ride flats anyway). I'm currently bikepacking with my 29er hardtail but would like a more dedicated bike, preferably with plus tires, for bikepacking. 

Does this sound like a decent deal? I'd like to be able to sell it without losing money, if I find myself wanting to go back to bikepacking with a hardtail.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

That seems like a fairly decent deal. I paid $900 for mine, in really excellent shape. That bike looks like it's been loved a bit -- some wear and tear -- and modifications -- different bar, lay-back post, qr rear hub. A fantastically solid ride for bike-packing!

Just make sure nothing's bent or cracked and offer 'em $825! 

Good luck!


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## zs3889 (Apr 14, 2017)

Magicscreen said:


> That seems like a fairly decent deal. I paid $900 for mine, in really excellent shape. That bike looks like it's been loved a bit -- some wear and tear -- and modifications -- different bar, lay-back post, qr rear hub. A fantastically solid ride for bike-packing!
> 
> Just make sure nothing's bent or cracked and offer 'em $825!
> 
> Good luck!


Thanks. Going to check it out tonight and probably getting it if the frame looks to be in good shape. From the photos, the paints looks fantastic, no idea why the decals are off.

The rear mech has also been swapped out for x9 shifter and x0 derailleur. Supposedly for upgrading?


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

About anyone here knows more about this stuff than I do, so don't put much stock in my opinion! Good fun.


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## NesquikNinja (May 7, 2013)

Hello all

I've decided to get off my fat ass and really start riding this thing. I found a trail that I can take to work! Even has a couple campsites along the way, I included a pic of the best one....it's about 4 miles from the nearest town.

Does anyone know the best mudguards for the Krampus? There's a shallow water crossing and a fair bit of mud.

This bike is awesome


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## Estuche (Apr 18, 2010)

fatbikenewbie said:


> Dear Folks: Not wanting to start new thread so...
> Just put on Duro crux 3.25x29's front and back on 2017 Krampus, purchased from Jeff Jones. IMHO, WAY nicer than stock dirt wizards, although DW's were very grippy. DC 3.25's more supple, more Cush, and noticeably less rolling resistance than DW 60 TPI's. You just cant slam them all the way forward, thanks for all the great info!!!


Seriously pics would be nice!


----------



## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Andrew Kirkwood said:


> Has anyone tried regular 29x2.5 tyres on the 2017 Krampus? Any BB height issues?


The BB heignt on my Legacy Krampus with 2.4" tyres is 325mm and I have no issues with pedals strikes.


----------



## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

fatbikenewbie said:


> Dear Folks: Not wanting to start new thread so...
> Just put on Duro crux 3.25x29's front and back on 2017 Krampus, purchased from Jeff Jones. IMHO, WAY nicer than stock dirt wizards, although DW's were very grippy. DC 3.25's more supple, more Cush, and noticeably less rolling resistance than DW 60 TPI's. You just cant slam them all the way forward, thanks for all the great info!!!


I've had the crux on my ice cream truck for a while now, and really like them. They roll well, but still great traction. A very supple sidewall seems to allow them to go through rock gardens with ease. I also just put one on the front of my first gen Krampus.

On velocity dually rims, the casing width only measures 3", but tread is 3.25" wide. These tires are much taller than other 29+ tires. The diameter maxes out the rear of my ICT, and I had to remove the seat-tube strap on my frame bag.


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## unclechet (Nov 13, 2015)

Well SSKC got rained out so I missed that chance to race my Krampus. Next on the list was the "Tour De Lizard" mountain bike race at Camp Horizon in Ark City, Ks. For the last few years it's been part of the Tour De Dirt series out of Oklahoma. A lot of riders come up from Oklahoma to race this race. I think they had a good turn out. The trail at Camp Horizon is pretty darn rocky and technical IMHO. Here's a pic of me at the finish line and dropping in at the trail head during the race. And yes, the Krampus performed beautifully! I really like it!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

unclechet said:


> Well SSKC got rained out so I missed that chance to race my Krampus. Next on the list was the "Tour De Lizard" mountain bike race at Camp Horizon in Ark City, Ks. For the last few years it's been part of the Tour De Dirt series out of Oklahoma. A lot of riders come up from Oklahoma to race this race. I think they had a good turn out. The trail at Camp Horizon is pretty darn rocky and technical IMHO. Here's a pic of me at the finish line and dropping in at the trail head during the race. And yes, the Krampus performed beautifully! I really like it!


I like seeing a fully rigid Krampus at the races!!!


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## unclechet (Nov 13, 2015)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I like seeing a fully rigid Krampus at the races!!!


I think I was the only one not running at least a front suspension. The big tires and low air pressure works pretty darn good!


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## mountaindude (Jun 27, 2017)

unclechet said:


> I think I was the only one not running at least a front suspension. The big tires and low air pressure works pretty darn good!


Are you running the stock Dirt Wizards? What's your tire pressure?


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## mountaindude (Jun 27, 2017)

I took the Krampus on its first (and mine) bikepacking mission. Totally loving this thing. It carried everything without complaint on Colorado's Alpine Loop. I'm still trying to find the right dropper post-compatible seat bag. Loaded or unloaded, the Krampus covers mixed terrain with remarkable efficiency and comfort. I had one of the best descents of my life.


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## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

mountaindude said:


> I'm still trying to find the right dropper post-compatible seat bag.


have a look at this: https://www.arkel-od.com/en/bikepacking-bags.html

Do you need a dropper when BPing?

Apparently it is dropper compatible. Watch the video.


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## unclechet (Nov 13, 2015)

mountaindude said:


> Are you running the stock Dirt Wizards? What's your tire pressure?


Stock tires set up tubeless. 15 psi but I think I could have been running 12. Some more experimentation is required.


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

What a gorgeous shot, Mountaindude. Strong work!


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## mountaindude (Jun 27, 2017)

temporoad said:


> have a look at this: https://www.arkel-od.com/en/bikepacking-bags.html
> 
> Do you need a dropper when BPing?
> 
> Apparently it is dropper compatible. Watch the video.


Thanks for the link. Interesting product. I had not heard of that one. Yes, I do need my dropper for bikepacking:

1. I'm too lazy to switch it out.
2. I have a Wolf Tooth Valais, which provides a quick fix should the dropper fail. Also, the part doesn't weigh anything and takes up little space.

@Magicscreen Thanks for the kind words regarding the photo.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

mountaindude said:


> Thanks for the link. Interesting product. I had not heard of that one. Yes, I do need my dropper for bikepacking:
> 
> 1. I'm too lazy to switch it out.
> 2. I have a Wolf Tooth Valais, which provides a quick fix should the dropper fail. Also, the part doesn't weigh anything and takes up little space.
> ...


http://www.bedrockbags.com/gear/black-dragon-dropper-seat-bag

Supper nice stuff...


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## Fatbikefan (Oct 12, 2017)

*60tpiDirtWizard to 29" DuroCrux to 29" Terrene McFly Light*



Estuche said:


> Seriously pics would be nice!


Formerly Fatbikenewbie, now Fatbikefan. Ran all the above tires on y new 2017 Krampus, GO BUY the Terrene McFly Lghts!!! They r about 2 lbs lighter than the 60tpi DW which come stock on new Krampus, and I felt the Duro Crux just too much tire (true 3.25") for my wimpy riding. Duro Crux weighed in between DW and Mcfly. I may try a Duro Crux front and McFly Light rear for late fall season prior to going to my Blackborow. Great problems to have!!! I also just came back from the Salsa Bikecamp weekend for my first bikepacking/camping weekend. I'm hooked!!!! Sorry for rambling & pls point me to where to learn how to EASILY upload pix.


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## unclechet (Nov 13, 2015)

Pick "Go Advanced". It's not too hard to upload pix. Please do, I'd like to see your set up.



Fatbikefan said:


> Formerly Fatbikenewbie, now Fatbikefan. Ran all the above tires on y new 2017 Krampus, GO BUY the Terrene McFly Lghts!!! They r about 2 lbs lighter than the 60tpi DW which come stock on new Krampus, and I felt the Duro Crux just too much tire (true 3.25") for my wimpy riding. Duro Crux weighed in between DW and Mcfly. I may try a Duro Crux front and McFly Light rear for late fall season prior to going to my Blackborow. Great problems to have!!! I also just came back from the Salsa Bikecamp weekend for my first bikepacking/camping weekend. I'm hooked!!!! Sorry for rambling & pls point me to where to learn how to EASILY upload pix.


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## Fatbikefan (Oct 12, 2017)

*Fatbikefan Krampus w Duro Crux 29x3.25 showing clearance.*







sorry for the upside down picture, my Krampus w revelate bags and Duro Crux 29x3.25 tires.


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## Fatbikefan (Oct 12, 2017)

*fatbike fan krampus (right side up...) w Duro Crux 3.25's*









Fatbikefan said:


> sorry for the upside down picture, my Krampus w revelate bags and Duro Crux 29x3.25 tires.


Upside down pic was in error, thx!


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## FatOldGoat (Jul 5, 2006)

tim_w_sage said:


> Here are a few pics of my Krampus after a rebuild. New powdercoat, carver ti bars, Hugo rims, and a new lefty. I also cut some custom 29+ stickers for the lefty. I still need to get around to a slight trim job on the front brake hose
> 
> IMG_4454 by tim_w_sage, on Flickr
> IMG_4457 by tim_w_sage, on Flickr
> ...


Curious about your Lefty setup - I'm considering a Lefty project for my ECR. What Lefty did you use?


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## Rasky (Dec 22, 2014)

Fatbikefan, Were you able to get the Duro Crux slammed fully forward or did you have to pull them back in the dropouts??


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## Fatbikefan (Oct 12, 2017)

Rasky said:


> Fatbikefan, Were you able to get the Duro Crux slammed fully forward or did you have to pull them back in the dropouts??


With the Duro Crux 3.25's, I was not able to be slammed forward, I would say right about middle/center, gave me OK spacing.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

*back to rigid....*









Legacy Krampus (size L) with rigid forks back on and -2 degree headset. WB is at about 1160mm and BB is 305mm.

I recommend the -2 degree headset even with the rigid fork as it also steepen the ST angle for better climbing and drops the BB to an almost silly height.

Partially in response to https://www.pinkbike.com/news/riding-rigid-is-ridiculous-opinion.html which I think is a silly bit of clickbait. The original article by Bike Snob had some merit.

I have been running 140mm Pikes and put the rigid forks back on for a change. I am surprised how capable the bike is even with no suspension.

Next step is single speed and true mtb Nirvana (but need a bit more fitness first).


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

fartymarty said:


> View attachment 1163711
> 
> 
> Legacy Krampus (size L) with rigid forks back on and -2 degree headset. WB is at about 1160mm and BB is 305mm.
> ...


I agree with the rigid VS suspension. I ran my green Krampus with a Manitou Magnum for over a year (awesome fork BTW), but I love the way this bike handles with the stock rigid fork the best. Crazy fun and capable.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

I asked in the Krampus thread over in the Surly forum, but I think this one gets more traffic, so forgive me if I cross-post it here, too.

Is anyone running a non-boost crank with a 1x11 setup on a 2017 Krampus? If so, any issues with the chain rubbing on the tire in the largest cog? Any other issues? Thanks!


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

cjbiker said:


> I asked in the Krampus thread over in the Surly forum, but I think this one gets more traffic, so forgive me if I cross-post it here, too.
> 
> Is anyone running a non-boost crank with a 1x11 setup on a 2017 Krampus? If so, any issues with the chain rubbing on the tire in the largest cog? Any other issues? Thanks!


I'm running non boost shimano slx cranks with a 1x11 setup on my 2017 Krampus and have a 29x3 DHRII on 35mm ID rims. No chain rub.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

noosa2 said:


> I'm running non boost shimano slx cranks with a 1x11 setup on my 2017 Krampus and have a 29x3 DHRII on 35mm ID rims. No chain rub.


Awesome, thanks!

Now I want to be greedy. How much chain clearance to the tire is there? I'd love to run Duro Crux tires on 45mm internal width rims.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

Any Krampus owners have experience riding both the legacy and current version? I'm particularly interested in hearing about the shorter chainstays and if they negatively impact the smooth ride characteristics of the legacy version?

Thanks!


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

cjbiker said:


> Awesome, thanks!
> 
> Now I want to be greedy. How much chain clearance to the tire is there? I'd love to run Duro Crux tires on 45mm internal width rims.


At the closes point between the tire and the chain I have a hair over 1cm.


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## Andrew Kirkwood (Jul 17, 2011)

Noosa - is that Minions 2.4 you are running? If so how is BB clearance? Or do you have 140mm up front?

Also, has anyone got a weight for the new Krampus frame?


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

Andrew Kirkwood said:


> Noosa - is that Minions 2.4 you are running? If so how is BB clearance? Or do you have 140mm up front?
> 
> Also, has anyone got a weight for the new Krampus frame?


I'm running 3.0 minions with a 140mm travel fork.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

noosa2 said:


> At the closes point between the tire and the chain I have a hair over 1cm.


Hey cjbiker, I run my rear wheel slammed but if you go with 45mm rims you may have to slide the wheel back in the dropouts a bit so the tire does not it the chainstays.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I finally measured the STA on my Krampus with the -2 degree Headset. STA (centre BB to centre seat post) = 75 degrees and ESTA (centre BB to centre seat) ~77 degrees.

It climbs amazingly well even with the 67.5 HA, 50mm stem and 38mm rise bars. You could drop the bars a bit but it will affect handling going down.


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Andrew Kirkwood said:


> Also, has anyone got a weight for the new Krampus frame?


Yup, same as the old one. It's not light so if weight is your top priority I suggest you look elsewhere. If your looking for a fun, durable, affordable frame then the Krampus will be sweet.


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## Andrew Kirkwood (Jul 17, 2011)

Erm.... and the old one was? 

Weight not my top priority (or I wouldn't be looking at Surly) but am still interested to know. Am trying to decide between a Krampus and Monkey so would like to know frame weights for both, but can't find much info on the net.


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## Andrew Kirkwood (Jul 17, 2011)

Found it, 6.25 lbs for XL Krampus frame.

No information on new KM though.


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## crashedupderby (Nov 21, 2005)

Andrew Kirkwood said:


> Found it, 6.25 lbs for XL Krampus frame.
> 
> No information on new KM though.


my red large frame complete out of the box weighed 34.2lbs. Put 120tpi dirt wizards on it and went tubeless, then it weighed 31.85lbs.
Not a gram counting weight weenie, but. 
also, one ride and I am super pumped on this bike. might be my only mtb for now.


----------



## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

SPAM - selling my Krampus Ops Frame & Wheels

Surly Krampus Ops frame and fork - Size Large - MTBR Classifieds

29 Plus Carbon Wheelset / Maxxis Chronicle 29x3.0 tires - MTBR Classifieds


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## imtb (Jan 15, 2004)

not the best pic but put on 275 3" tires. chronicale in back and DHF in front. Its more sporty with the 275 3 tires and still rolls over everything in it path.


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

imtb said:


> not the best pic but put on 275 3" tires. chronicale in back and DHF in front. Its more sporty with the 275 3 tires and still rolls over everything in it path.
> View attachment 1166002
> View attachment 1166003


damn....the mini tank rolling along!!!!


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

How are the forks. They look awesome.


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## Andrew Kirkwood (Jul 17, 2011)

AOK - What are you moving on to?


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Andrew Kirkwood said:


> AOK - What are you moving on to?


I have been so happy with my Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol that I decided to give the Pedalhead a try. I am planning to run 29 x 2.6 and see how I like it.


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## Alpinum (Nov 7, 2017)

Hi Folks

very soon my girlfriend and I shall each receive a Krampus size M and L and we both are more comfy with 32 t rings up front.
Surly states 30 t boost ring max. I kind of struggle to believe this as there seem to be a few photos around with larger rings eg. on the outer tabs of a 2 by spider.

Has anyone installed 32 t boost ring? Does it work?

I don't really want to flip it as I'm afraid to mess up the chainline.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Finally found some time to dish my wheels and mount up tires. I'll try and wrap it up for a ride soon.


----------



## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Is this a new Krampus or Legacy? If Legacy I am currently running a 32t oval (31-34) and it is tight but works.


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## Alpinum (Nov 7, 2017)

fartymarty said:


> Is this a new Krampus or Legacy? If Legacy I am currently running a 32t oval (31-34) and it is tight but works.


This years Krampus. Thanks anyhow


----------



## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

Alpinum said:


> This years Krampus. Thanks anyhow


Don't know if this helps but I run a regular 32t raceface chainring on standard cranks on this years Krampus.


----------



## Alpinum (Nov 7, 2017)

noosa2 said:


> Don't know if this helps but I run a regular 32t raceface chainring on standard cranks on this years Krampus.


It does, cheers.
What's regular to you, a non boost direct mount?


----------



## Ze_Zaskar (Jan 3, 2008)

Also curious about chainring clearance.
Currently have a AB 32T oval on a XT triple, so 48mm chainline.

Wonder how it will go in a 2017 Krampus


----------



## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

Alpinum said:


> It does, cheers.
> What's regular to you, a non boost direct mount?


This is the chainring I use. https://www.raceface.com/products/details/narrow-wide-single-ring

Not a great pic of the crank/chainring but it is what I have right now.


----------



## etwarnick (May 24, 2017)

I'm looking for a legacy Krampus fork with uncut steerer tube. Does anyone have one hanging around that they would be willing to sell?


----------



## max5480 (Jun 19, 2010)

Just put on Maxxis dhf and dhr for shoulder season riding to replace my old WTB Rangers which were getting a little warn. Yesterday's ride was about a quarter snow and ice and the tires did great, really glad Maxxis made these available. This set up is with a Manitou Magnum 100mm fork, which I got on a deal otherwise I probably would have gone with the 120. No regrets though since the geometry stayed pretty close to stock and I have never really felt I needed much more suspension yet. Next upgrades are some Shimano or TRP hydraulics and a solid dropper post (not sure which 27.2 dp I should go with).


----------



## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

max5480 said:


> Just put on Maxxis dhf and dhr for shoulder season riding to replace my old WTB Rangers which were getting a little warn. Yesterday's ride was about a quarter snow and ice and the tires did great, really glad Maxxis made these available. This set up is with a Manitou Magnum 100mm fork, which I got on a deal otherwise I probably would have gone with the 120. No regrets though since the geometry stayed pretty close to stock and I have never really felt I needed much more suspension yet. Next upgrades are some Shimano or TRP hydraulics and a solid dropper post (not sure which 27.2 dp I should go with).
> 
> View attachment 1167712


That right there is a proper looking Krampus!


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## psychler (Jan 9, 2009)

etwarnick said:


> I'm looking for a legacy Krampus fork with uncut steerer tube. Does anyone have one hanging around that they would be willing to sell?


I've got a brand new uncut steerer in green. LMK


----------



## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

@nitrous The bike looks great. I'm running XT. They're fairly powerful (200mm F 180mm R) and easy to bleed. I would take a brake with mineral oil any day over brake fluid.


----------



## Alpinum (Nov 7, 2017)

noosa2 said:


> This is the chainring I use. https://www.raceface.com/products/details/narrow-wide-single-ring
> 
> Not a great pic of the crank/chainring but it is what I have right now.


:thumbsup: highly appreciated. 32 t with a 50 mm chainline. With a boost crank (+3 mm) 32 t will surely fit


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Wow. I finally get it. I just got back from my new Krampus' maiden voyage.

What an awesome riding bike.


----------



## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

NYrr is that a Legacy Krampus or a new one?


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

fartymarty said:


> NYrr is that a Legacy Krampus or a new one?


New black one. My first chromo bike in about thirty years. 
I built it up with my 35mm Velocity Blunts on Hopes with Wolftooth boost spacers, Chupacabra on the rear, Vee Bulldozer on the front, 1x11, SLX brakes and Jones H Bars.
Bike rides awesome.
I was planning on putting a Pike on it but I may not have to. I have to try it on a few other trails.
I'll post a pic after turkey.


----------



## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Pikes are great. I'm running a non boost one on mine. I now have it at 120mm but have had it at 140mm.


----------



## FloriDave (Jul 15, 2009)

Nothing significant to contribute today, just happy with a new bottom bracket installed.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andrew Kirkwood (Jul 17, 2011)

Why oh why did Surly drop that paint colour. It looks just great.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

out of the 8 surlys i have had/have,(3 were black) its still my favorite color,even over the glitter dreams...

and thats a properly used krampus frame too! i like the buseage marks!


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

My Krampus is black. Love it. My fat bike is like metallic antifreeze. I like the bat bike look on this one.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Mine has splotches of red oxide paint where I have covered scrapes ans scratches. It will be a while before I get it repainted as I love the green.

Maybe in a way it's good Surly don't do the green anymore as it makes the legacy Krampus a bit more unique.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I got a new rear wheel for my Krampus after selling the Rabbit Hole + Rohloff wheel I was using. I think I'll set it up SS for now to enjoy a lighter bike as it will mostly see urban assault use for the PNWet winter.


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## max5480 (Jun 19, 2010)

Has anyone tried 27.5 or (27.5+) and a 160mm or (140) fork on their legacy krampus frame or something similar thereabouts? If so what do you think? Pictures?


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I am currently using 29 so similar in size to 275+ and have had my Pikes up to 140mm. It was great for descending but the seat angle was quite slack which meant the front kept popping up when climbing. I haven't tried 160mm yet (I have the air shafts but not put them in) as it will make it worse. 

The BB height with 29 is fine so assume it would be the same wiht 275+

Also I have a -2 Headset which slackens the HA and also steepens the SA so I imagine it would be worse with a standard headset.

If I was only riding down I would go back up to 140mm.

I have seen piccys on the Surly image dump of someone with 27.5+ and it looks great.

Let us know how it goes though.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Finally got to getting a pic. Really likin' this bike.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

I had a bunch of parts kicking around the workshop and have a problem with avoiding real work by filling it with things I find more interesting so I decided to swap some parts around and set my legacy Krampus up as a 29er hardtail. I'm also considering adding a full suspension 29er to the fleet so I figured it would be good to get back on one to see how it feels. My last experience regularly riding a 29er was with my gen 2 Nimble 9.

The only item I purchased new (something I was going to do anyways) is a -1.5º angleset from Works Components.

So un-sagged in this config here are some stats

Tires: DHF's 2.5 F/R
Fork AtoC: 531
HA: 65.7
Stack: 609
Reach: 402
BB Height: 330
STA: 70.5
WB: 1149
CS: 446 (Same)

First ride was last night, impressions are:


Always impressed at the versatility of this frame
Slack seat angle was not a major impediment to climbing
The Krampus ride quality is miles better than my Nimble 9, someting I attribute partially to the much longer chainstays
Long chainstays were perfectly fine I had zero issues with them, along with greater ride comfort I had no issues with traction and its pretty sloppy here right now
Shorter reach was noticeable in this config not sure how I feel about this yet

Overall I had a great ride considering what this build would have cost me had I done it all new I was pretty impressed! I've never fit the medium Krampus perfectly its always been a touch long in ETT vs the Reach which is a touch short vs my more modern bike. Now that its slacker I'd be willing to try a 40mm stem on it which will help with the ETT but make standing climbs more awkward.

I stand by statements I've made before about this bike it is the most versatile bike I have ever owned. From 29+ bike packer to 29er HT trail ripper to commuter the legacy Krampus continues to be a valuable member of my fleet. If I were to ever take the step of a custom build I'd want to mirror many of the aspects of this bike with a couple of modern tweaks to ETT/Reach as for the CS I know shorter is better for standing climbs but I sure like that comfy rear on a hard tail (not to mention helping to keep the front end down on steep climbs) so I'd have to consider that number carefully. Rock on.

Krampus 29er







#packlessisbestest







GD underbar tweak


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## unclechet (Nov 13, 2015)

I added this Surly Snuggnut to my SS Krampus today. I kept tweaking the axle without it. I kind of miss the days of a real nut on both sides of the hub. I wish somebody would make an axle that would fit this hub, out of steel, and with a track nut on both ends. Then this bandaid wouldn't be required.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

unclechet said:


> I added this Surly Snuggnut to my SS Krampus today. I kept tweaking the axle without it. I kind of miss the days of a real nut on both sides of the hub. I wish somebody would make an axle that would fit this hub, out of steel, and with a track nut on both ends. Then this bandaid wouldn't be required.












I feel your pain. 

I got a Hope hub with a bolt-on axle so I could keep things simple and hassle-free back there. :thumbsup:


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

I have a Pugsley and use a XT Shimano QR skewer and fortunately, hadn't had issues. Wonder if the track ends are different on the Krampus.


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## Bigrocks (May 14, 2004)

I have a brand new Krampus MK2 red fork, 110 x 15 boost for sale, PM if interested.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Never mind


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

I'm considering keeping the full bike after looking at the spec.

Not too bad.


How is the wheel set?


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

Miker J said:


> How is the wheel set?


Unless you already have parts to hang on a frame, the build isn't bad at all. Wheels are nothing to write home about, but not bad, either. Salsa (Formula) hubs and Alex 40mm rims. Should perform well enough (just get them tensioned right).


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## CuzinMike (Jul 6, 2010)

NYrr496 said:


> View attachment 1169997
> 
> 
> Finally got to getting a pic. Really likin' this bike.


Curious, what's your height and inseam? I thinking about giving a Krampus with Jones bars a go. I'm 6'4" but all legs, so I often have a tough time getting the bars up to saddle level. I'm also trying to find a way to not spend $3K+ on a Jones Plus bike even though it would probably fit my frame the best...


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

CuzinMike said:


> Curious, what's your height and inseam? I thinking about giving a Krampus with Jones bars a go. I'm 6'4" but all legs, so I often have a tough time getting the bars up to saddle level. I'm also trying to find a way to not spend $3K+ on a Jones Plus bike even though it would probably fit my frame the best...


I'm 6'5" with a 35 or 36" inseam. Those bars on my bike are the new riser ones. They have about two inches of rise built in. 410mm seat post. I wish Race Face made the Aeffect cranks in 180mm. The stem is 80mm with 5 degrees rise. I was going to try a 90, as all of my other bikes have em but this one feels really good.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Here's my XL Krampus set up for 6'3" me, 32" saddle height, I think the steerer was uncut:









and my 25" Jones Plus FYI:








The Jones was quite a bit more comfortable, but neither bike was great for tight trails.



CuzinMike said:


> Curious, what's your height and inseam? I thinking about giving a Krampus with Jones bars a go. I'm 6'4" but all legs, so I often have a tough time getting the bars up to saddle level. I'm also trying to find a way to not spend $3K+ on a Jones Plus bike even though it would probably fit my frame the best...


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## CuzinMike (Jul 6, 2010)

Awesome. Appreciate it, NYrr496 and seat_boy.


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

seat_boy said:


> The Jones was quite a bit more comfortable, but neither bike was great for tight trails.


Although, it should be noted you had the Krampus set up more like an XC bike with the saddle to bar drop. Jones is level and has the swept back Loop bar.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

The Big K is pointed downhill a bit in that picture, so the saddle to bar drop is exaggerated. But yeah, it had the bars maybe an inch lower than the seat, where the Jones were level with the seat.



2:01 said:


> Although, it should be noted you had the Krampus set up more like an XC bike with the saddle to bar drop. Jones is level and has the swept back Loop bar.


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## CuzinMike (Jul 6, 2010)

seat_boy said:


> The Big K is pointed downhill a bit in that picture, so the saddle to bar drop is exaggerated. But yeah, it had the bars maybe an inch lower than the seat, where the Jones were level with the seat.


The bars being lower than the seat is something I've been dealing with ever since bike geo went to the "long and slack" thing. Short headtubes aren't my friend. I guess I'll end up shelling out for a Jones next year, but I'll shut up about that since this is a Krampus thread...


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

I'm with you. These low stack heights on XL frames is silly.

Jones does make a Loop bar with an extra 2" or rise now...



CuzinMike said:


> The bars being lower than the seat is something I've been dealing with ever since bike geo went to the "long and slack" thing. Short headtubes aren't my friend. I guess I'll end up shelling out for a Jones next year, but I'll shut up about that since this is a Krampus thread...


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

seat_boy said:


> I'm with you. These low stack heights on XL frames is silly.
> 
> Jones does make a Loop bar with an extra 2" or rise now...


I just put those bars on my bike. They work that out perfectly.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Sounds like you guys need 3" rise bars like I used to ride in the early naughties.

Alternatively stick a bouncy fork on and it will raise the front by a few inches. I'm 6'1" and the top of my bars are at 41" off the ground and that's with modest stem / bar / spacers.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

Hunter smooth move bars come in a 75mm rise. They are not particularly light but decently wide and he nailed the curves on that thing it's bloody comfy and I have tried lots or "ergo" bars including the Jones. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

Anyone try an Ice Cream Truck fork? I'm thinking of picking one up to set it up with a fat front wheel. It would be nice for super chunky rides.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

2:01 said:


> Anyone try an Ice Cream Truck fork? I'm thinking of picking one up to set it up with a fat front wheel. It would be nice for super chunky rides.


I didn't do it yet but I plan to. The A to C is exactly the same. Should work fine. 
I used to ride my fat bike with a 29+ wheel on the rear and fat in front. I'm a huge fan.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I would love to see a piccy. It sounds strange but probably works a treat.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Is anyone running a 29x3 Minion DHF? If so what do they measure (casing and knobs). Thanks in advance.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Go visit the a Stache thread. Lots of info there.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

fartymarty said:


> Sounds like you guys need 3" rise bars like I used to ride in the early naughties.
> 
> Alternatively stick a bouncy fork on and it will raise the front by a few inches. I'm 6'1" and the top of my bars are at 41" off the ground and that's with modest stem / bar / spacers.


The distance from the bars to the ground isn't going to solve a fit issue. A taller fork will also raise the bottom bracket which will only help a small bit. Raising the level of the grips in relation to the pedals is what will make it more comfortable for a taller rider.

More headset spacers, taller stem, and definitely taller bars will do the most.

Reach and stack is where it's at.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Something I've done on my Stache that gives be more stack but looks more natural is using a conical Shadow Conspiracy 23mm spacer the same color as my frame. I tried fancy anodized colors, but running tons of headset spacers looks stupid to my eyes, so the black looks like it belongs with the frame.








I'm a stack nerd though. I like tall stack heights.

50mm rise Answer ProTaper 720mm bars:


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## Magicscreen (Dec 10, 2016)

This is a great idea. And, if you need more stack, you need more stack!

Thanks!


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## KVV (May 22, 2017)

fartymarty said:


> Is anyone running a 29x3 Minion DHF? If so what do they measure (casing and knobs). Thanks in advance.


New tire, inflated for a week but never ridden. 39mm internal rim, 15 psi.
Casing: 72.5mm, tread 73.8mm (maybe add some 0.5mm, I measure conservatively).

External diameter is visually 3-4mm taller than Chupacabra.
Inflated to 30 psi as maxxis measures it and on 45mm rim, it'll surely be true 3".


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Thanks. What forks are you running it with?


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

chelboed said:


> The distance from the bars to the ground isn't going to solve a fit issue. A taller fork will also raise the bottom bracket which will only help a small bit. Raising the level of the grips in relation to the pedals is what will make it more comfortable for a taller rider.
> 
> More headset spacers, taller stem, and definitely taller bars will do the most.
> 
> Reach and stack is where it's at.


Do you tall stack guys now have a problem with lack of weight on the front when pushing hard? Keeping weight on the front is what drives bar height for me. Too high and I have to conciously weight the front. Too low and back gets light and it's not comfortable to ride.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I certainly don't. It's all about body proportion. We're still leaned over a bit. It's just that a taller dude needs a taller bike and most bike manufacturers only increase the head tube length marginally as the frame size increased. Wonky body proportions make it tough to find the right fit as well. Like my torso is short, but my legs are long. My torso is that of a sub 6' person, but my legs are like a 6'3-4" person.

A person that is 5'9" that rides a medium frame with a 100mm head tube usually fits fairly well. But then you've got that 6'2" on an XL frame, but the head tube is only 120mm. Dude is 5 inches taller but only has 20mm more stack. Frames are averaged around a sub 6' rider height, proportionally. Tall guys have to run excessive spacers to get a similar ride angle.

See the picture of my grey and purple hardtail a couple posts above: that's a size large frame, but has a 140mm head tube. You really have to search long and hard to find a 140mm head tube these days and it's not going to be in a Large. That's why I still own, love, and regularly ride that 2005 26'er.


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## KVV (May 22, 2017)

fartymarty said:


> Thanks. What forks are you running it with?


Pike 29+. Plenty of clearance. Notice it's 523mm a/c with 100mm of travel (16mm longer than F34 with the same travel).


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

chelboed said:


> I certainly don't. It's all about body proportion. We're still leaned over a bit. It's just that a taller dude needs a taller bike and most bike manufacturers only increase the head tube length marginally as the frame size increased. Wonky body proportions make it tough to find the right fit as well. Like my torso is short, but my legs are long. My torso is that of a sub 6' person, but my legs are like a 6'3-4" person.
> 
> A person that is 5'9" that rides a medium frame with a 100mm head tube usually fits fairly well. But then you've got that 6'2" on an XL frame, but the head tube is only 120mm. Dude is 5 inches taller but only has 20mm more stack. Frames are averaged around a sub 6' rider height, proportionally. Tall guys have to run excessive spacers to get a similar ride angle.
> 
> See the picture of my grey and purple hardtail a couple posts above: that's a size large frame, but has a 140mm head tube. You really have to search long and hard to find a 140mm head tube these days and it's not going to be in a Large. That's why I still own, love, and regularly ride that 2005 26'er.


I get where you are coming from regarding dimensions across sizes. IMO CS should change across sizes to maintain the same front rear balance.

It sounds like you need a custom frame.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

KVV said:


> Pike 29+. Plenty of clearance. Notice it's 523mm a/c with 100mm of travel (16mm longer than F34 with the same travel).


I have 100x15mm Pikes at 120mm travel. What is the dimension from the centre of the axle to the underside of the arch and how much clearance do you have between the underside of the arch and the DHF? I can check mine to see if I am close. Thanks in advance.

Worst case I run it on my rigid fork but would be nice to have the option if both. I used to have Float 29s and a DW and Knard were fine altho the Knard was tight - no mud clearance so summer use only.


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## KK89 (May 21, 2013)

Any idea why 29" Rabbit holes have gone out of stock in more than few bike shops?


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

KK89 said:


> Any idea why 29" Rabbit holes have gone out of stock in more than few bike shops?


A while back, a friend and I both called Surly asking about My Other Brother Darryl and the future of Marge Lite. All they would say to both of us was that Surly was going to be making everything tubeless compatible from here on out. MAYBE the Rabbit Hole is being revamped.


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## KVV (May 22, 2017)

fartymarty said:


> I have 100x15mm Pikes at 120mm travel. What is the dimension from the centre of the axle to the underside of the arch and how much clearance do you have between the underside of the arch and the DHF? I can check mine to see if I am close. Thanks in advance.
> 
> Worst case I run it on my rigid fork but would be nice to have the option if both. I used to have Float 29s and a DW and Knard were fine altho the Knard was tight - no mud clearance so summer use only.


396mm from the center of the axle to the underside of the arch on Pike 29+. This leaves about 12-13mm clearance to the arch and at least 10mm on each side. Most accurate tire diameter I can measure is 766mm.

May I ask what you're trying to achieve with the Minion 3.0 on Krampus? It's way too much tire for bikepacking and way too wide/bouncy/overagressive for the general trail riding.

Now look at the geo. 120mm Pike is 531mm a/c. If Surly posted geo is correct, this is 48mm more a/c than their rigid fork. This will rise the BB by about 1/3 of the difference, so by 16mm.

The head angle will slacken by ~2.5 degrees to 66.5 (I'd call it perfect), but the seat angle will be ~70.5 (pretty terrible for climbing, and you can only fix it slightly by moving the seat all the way forward). The reach will be reduced but not by very much (still ok, though fitting a longer stem to increase it will conflict with the too slack seat tube).

Most important, the BB drop becomes only 49mm.

I generally shoot for 315mm static BB height on the hardtails (and so a few other manufactures, like on SC Chameleon). 315 is not too high/low, works with 175 cranks and mid-thick platforms. There are variations due to personal preferences and other factors (clipless pedals probably can use less, tire and fork sag varies, etc). But below 310mm I'll consider low (170 cranks and be careful with pedals), and above 320mm is probably unnecessary high.

29x2.4 tires are about 740mm in diameter. With 49mm BB drop, that gives 321mm BB height. This is the max I'd go. What sense would 29x3.0 tire make in this setup? I'd actually try 27.5x3.0 tire which IMO will be perfect, or reduce the fork travel to 100-110mm and try 29x2.6.

I know many people use and like 120mm fork on Krampus, but IMO the bike is not designed for it.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

KVV said:


> New tire, inflated for a week but never ridden. 39mm internal rim, 15 psi.
> Casing: 72.5mm, tread 73.8mm (maybe add some 0.5mm, I measure conservatively).
> 
> External diameter is visually 3-4mm taller than Chupacabra.
> Inflated to 30 psi as maxxis measures it and on 45mm rim, it'll surely be true 3".


Yeah, my 29x3 DHF (and 29x3 DHR II) is just a hair under 3" on 35mm ID rims. I'm really surprised Maxxis did not label these as 29x3.2"


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## KVV (May 22, 2017)

noosa2 said:


> Yeah, my 29x3 DHF (and 29x3 DHR II) is just a hair under 3" on 35mm ID rims. I'm really surprised Maxxis did not label these as 29x3.2"


Not just this. Mine came as 1100g on a precise digital scale. I wish I took a picture. What's wrong with Maxxis nowadays? 

So I rode it for the first time today. It's on the front, cannot really comment on the rolling resistance. Felt absolutely normal. I climbed and descended the steepest wet slopes. Chupacabra on the rear gave a hint that it may loose traction, though never did. And the DHF, well, you know. Did not try it cornering yet.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

KVV said:


> 396mm from the center of the axle to the underside of the arch on Pike 29+. This leaves about 12-13mm clearance to the arch and at least 10mm on each side. Most accurate tire diameter I can measure is 766mm.
> 
> May I ask what you're trying to achieve with the Minion 3.0 on Krampus? It's way too much tire for bikepacking and way too wide/bouncy/overagressive for the general trail riding.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I was curious whether it would fit more than anything. I am really waiting for a 29x2.6 Minion which would be great for aggressive riding. Im currently on 2.4 DHR2 which are great but a little narrow as they measure about 2.35".

I also have a -2 degree headset and the HA with 120 Pikes is about 66.5 which is good. I did have the Pikes at 140mm and the HA was 65ish which was really good on the downs but wandered a bit climbing. The -2 also helps with the SA and BB height. It climbs relatively well but I have the seat forward on the rails. For better climbing I have increased the CS by using monkey nuts which increases it to 460mm.

I will measure BB height and get back to you but seem to remember it was 305mm with rigid Krampus forks and -2 headset. Also with -2 and rigid it climbed amazingly due to the steep SA.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

fartymarty said:


> I would love to see a piccy. It sounds strange but probably works a treat.











Sorry I took so long and wish I had a better pic.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

BB height is 320mm with the 120mm Pikes and 2.4DHR2. SA is about 71 so ok.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

I love the way the Krampus handles but I'm going to need to look for something with rear suspension pretty soon.


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## KVV (May 22, 2017)

fartymarty said:


> Thanks for the info. I was curious whether it would fit more than anything. I am really waiting for a 29x2.6 Minion which would be great for aggressive riding.


There is something from Specialized in 29x2.6 as well. And people generally like Nobby Nic in 2.6.
I was really waiting for the XR4 29x3.0 for the front but they keep delaying it. Though it's slowly making it through the web site (https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...e-tires/bontrager-xr4-team-issue-tlr/p/13585/). And they should have 29x2.6, too.
Since it's the same weight as the Minions, you have to decide if you want slightly more traction or slightly better rolling resistance.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I would rather stick with Minions for the type of riding I do. I like that you can run it all year round. A riding buddy is on fresh Nics and is slipping around a lot more than me in the slop we are riding in atm. 

Otherwise I have a set of Onza Ibex 2.4 which are nice for summer.

I will have a look into the Spec 2.6.


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## legopro87 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone, I just got a deal on a used new model Krampus. (I ride a Jones Plus so the Krampus is for my wife.) Only problem is, the Krampus frame is a large and she would need a medium or small. So here are my questions: Anyone willing to trade frames? (I'm in the San Diego area.) Any recommended places to buy a frame?

Would also appreciate any other suggestions. Though, running a shorter stem and converting to 27.5+ have already been suggested. Thanks for the help!


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## ryoanji (May 3, 2015)

*Krampus XL for sale*

I am selling my Krampus Ops XL. Please PM me with any questions.

Surly Krampus Ops XL with carbon wheels, 1x10 Sram XO, TRP Spykes - MTBR Classifieds


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## Ze_Zaskar (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's mine:


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Celebrated my guys 3rd b-day with some snow riding this weekend!!


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## Ze_Zaskar (Jan 3, 2008)

Anyone else noticed how Surly quietly changed the max fork length spec on the new Krampus? On the frame document they used to spec max AC of 525mm or something like that, now it says 550mm, which is close to 140mm on most models.

Kind of makes sense being the same as the KM. They share the same tubeset and the Krampus geo is less upset with the longer forks (lower BB)


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

*New Color!*

Pickled Beets anyone? - https://surlybikes.com/blog/when_life_doesnt_give_you_apples_make_pickled_beets


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Ze_Zaskar said:


> Anyone else noticed how Surly quietly changed the max fork length spec on the new Krampus? On the frame document they used to spec max AC of 525mm or something like that, now it says 550mm, which is close to 140mm on most models.
> 
> Kind of makes sense being the same as the KM. They share the same tubeset and the Krampus geo is less upset with the longer forks (lower BB)


That was a misprint. I contacted Surly about this when the new Krampus came out, and they gave me the 550 A-C spec.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Has anyone measured the SA with 550mm forks on the new Krampus?

I have tried 140mm forks on my Legacy Krampus and it is great for downhill but not so fun climbing. I can get the bars low enough but need the seat slammed as far forward as possible. 120mm keeps the SA a little more sensible and still works quite well downhill.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

nitrousjunky said:


> Pickled Beets anyone? - https://surlybikes.com/blog/when_life_doesnt_give_you_apples_make_pickled_beets


Mmmmm beets.

I like the new color a lot better than the apple red. I have never had much love for red bikes to start with, so not a high bar to clear.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

AOK said:


> Mmmmm beets.
> 
> I like the new color a lot better than the apple red. I have never had much love for red bikes to start with, so not a high bar to clear.


It also kind of has the sparkly look like the original bass boat green did. 

I'd take it over the red or the black options.


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## almlof (Nov 12, 2017)

Can some one advise me to why I should be choosing a Krampus over the Karate Monkey?


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## Ze_Zaskar (Jan 3, 2008)

Fartymarty,
I wouldn't worry to much about SA. First, it's not always easy to measure effectively with curved STs. Second, your seatpost head (setback or not) and saddle rail adjustment would probably swallow the fork induced slackness. That's one thing I'm very oldschool, I just adjust for KOPS and slide a bit forward on the saddle for those more difficult climbs.

Almlof,
They are indeed very similar, so similar that in fact you can run 27.5+ on a Krampus or 29+ on a KM. They can both run the same forks, have the same tubesets. 
They mostly differ on this:
- If you don't use 29+ tires, the KM allows for shorter chainstays (423 vs 435mm)
- The Krampus has a lower BB (65 vs 55mm) whith associated benefits, including a lower standover for any given tire size

I wanted to run big 29 tires without having to mes around with the dropouts and like low bikes, so went for the Krampus


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

AOK said:


> Mmmmm beets.
> 
> I like the new color a lot better than the apple red. I have never had much love for red bikes to start with, so not a high bar to clear.


Agreed. I'm down with the beets.


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## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

I like the new color, hate beets.  They should have got permission from Salsa to call the color Purple Reign. They had a drop bar fatbike prototype about that same color nicknamed that.

I think the story about “accidentally” changing to a cool color might be just a little too Surly. Still funny.


----------



## almlof (Nov 12, 2017)

Ze_Zaskar said:


> Almlof,
> They are indeed very similar, so similar that in fact you can run 27.5+ on a Krampus or 29+ on a KM. They can both run the same forks, have the same tubesets.
> They mostly differ on this:
> - If you don't use 29+ tires, the KM allows for shorter chainstays (423 vs 435mm)
> ...


Thanks for your input. 
I was thinking of getting the purple singlespeed KM and building a 29+ wheelset as well. I already have the rims from my Fatbike->29+ conversion. I'm not interested in 27.5+, maybe Krampus is a better choice.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

almlof said:


> Can some one advise me to why I should be choosing a Krampus over the Karate Monkey?


Because 29+ is cooler than 27.7+ or 29". Truth.


----------



## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

KVV - thanks for the Minion 3" measurements. I have checked my non plus Pikes and have about 384mm from axle centre to u/s arch so they wont fit. Cest la vie. I will probably wait for the unicorn that is the 29x2.6 DHF.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

And with a Krampus you have the option to run 29 x 3" tyres. And as noted the Krampus is bad ass.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Ze_Zaskar said:


> Fartymarty,
> 
> Almlof,
> They are indeed very similar, so similar that in fact you can run 27.5+ on a Krampus or 29+ on a KM. They can both run the same forks, have the same tubesets.
> ...


Probably more of a question for the KM thread, but I too am deciding between the Krampus and KM frame.

Can't see myself using more than a 2.6" out back, like a Maxxis Rekon. But, wonder if you then have to push the rear wheel way back in the axel to make it fit, thus negating any benefit to the shorter stays? Not like I even want really short stays on a HT bike anyway.

I figure I'd get more wiggle room with a Krampus.

The other factor is large Krampus frames are really hard to find.


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## almlof (Nov 12, 2017)

Miner J:
Check out Aybees post in the KM-thread; http://forums.mtbr.com/surly/new-27-5-29-amp%3Bquot%3B-karate-monkey-1018418-4.html#post13102989


aybee said:


> ...Bontrager Chupacabras on Easton Arc 35 rims. Tons of clearance, with the wheel set at the middle of the dropout. FWIW, the chupas run small - actual widths at 15psi put it at 2.89"...


----------



## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Perfect. What I needed to know. Thanks.


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## Jil (Jan 21, 2018)

Hi all

Could you indicate me what models of rear racks fit the 2017 Krampus ?

Thanks !

PS : I was thinking about this one, not sure it fits a 3" on the Krampus :
tubus - Vega


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## Jil (Jan 21, 2018)

Hi Krampus riders !

I'll join the team in a few days, just ordered an XL red frame 
Could you indicate me :
- some models of headset to use on this frame
- if the Manitou Machete 29+ fit the frame ?

Thanks !


----------



## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

unclechet said:


> I added this Surly Snuggnut to my SS Krampus today. I kept tweaking the axle without it. I kind of miss the days of a real nut on both sides of the hub. I wish somebody would make an axle that would fit this hub, out of steel, and with a track nut on both ends. Then this bandaid wouldn't be required.


 Got some woodmans in a 135 mm, beefy, steel axle 10mm and nuts on the ends. You with a 142mm?


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## go-pirates (May 8, 2006)

The pickled beets color looks more like skid mark brown. I hope apple red is still available.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Jil said:


> Hi Krampus riders !
> 
> I'll join the team in a few days, just ordered an XL red frame
> Could you indicate me :
> ...


Yeah, the Machete will work. I have a Cane Creek headset on my Krampus that allows a tapered steerer to fit. Can't remember what model it is but it's a big external cup. The top is internal. 
I'm currently running the stock rigid fork with a big crown race on it so when I do buy a Pike, it will go right in.


----------



## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Jil said:


> Could you indicate me :
> - some models of headset to use on this frame
> 
> Thanks !


Headset info: https://surlybikes.com/info_hole/fa..._for_my_instigator_ice_cream_truck_karate_mon


----------



## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I have a Works Components -2 on my Legacy Krampus with 120mm Pike or rigid fork.


----------



## Honda Guy (Mar 29, 2011)

Jil said:


> Hi Krampus riders !
> 
> I'll join the team in a few days, just ordered an XL red frame
> Could you indicate me :
> ...


Go for the Manitou Mattoc in 120. You won't regret having the beefy 34mm stanchions, I guarantee it.


----------



## AVLthumper (Jul 14, 2015)

Anybody have some good pics of the Pickled Beet frame? Pics I’ve seen are too dark or too far away to get an idea of the actual color. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pulsepro (Sep 13, 2007)

AVLthumper said:


> Anybody have some good pics of the Pickled Beet frame? Pics I've seen are too dark or too far away to get an idea of the actual color.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That Pickled Beet color looks great....at least on the Surly website.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

pulsepro said:


> That Pickled Beet color looks great....at least on the Surly website.












It reminds me of an old LHT colour. If it's the same it was a really pretty finish. :thumbsup:


----------



## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

AVLthumper said:


> Anybody have some good pics of the Pickled Beet frame? Pics I've seen are too dark or too far away to get an idea of the actual color.


One of my riding buddies picked his up last week.


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## Jil (Jan 21, 2018)

Honda Guy said:


> Go for the Manitou Mattoc in 120. You won't regret having the beefy 34mm stanchions, I guarantee it.


OK duly noted


----------



## Jil (Jan 21, 2018)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> Headset info: https://surlybikes.com/info_hole/fa..._for_my_instigator_ice_cream_truck_karate_mon


Perfect, thanks !


----------



## Jil (Jan 21, 2018)




----------



## Strugglebus (Dec 6, 2017)

Hi all,
I have a quick sizing question for you Krampus owners. 
All of my bikes are a large. All of the numbers for the Krampus look like a large lines up with the fit of my other bikes except for one. The stand over is well over an inch taller then my el mar or beargrease. Has anyone seen this as a problem or am I overthinking it? I’m a hair under 5’11 and have a 33” inseam. Thanks a lot


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Strugglebus said:


> Hi all,
> I have a quick sizing question for you Krampus owners.
> All of my bikes are a large. All of the numbers for the Krampus look like a large lines up with the fit of my other bikes except for one. The stand over is well over an inch taller then my el mar or beargrease. Has anyone seen this as a problem or am I overthinking it? I'm a hair under 5'11 and have a 33" inseam. Thanks a lot


Surly didn't call their first 29+ tire the Knard by accident.


----------



## Strugglebus (Dec 6, 2017)

Vik,
How tall are you. Just read your review on the Krampus and saw you went with a medium but could fit a large. Thanks


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Strugglebus said:


> Vik,
> How tall are you. Just read your review on the Krampus and saw you went with a medium but could fit a large. Thanks


5'11" & I wear 34" inseam pants. I'd buy a large if I was buying from scratch today. On a large I'd have no standover clearance. That's fine I've never come close to hitting "the boys" riding and having a bigger frame bag would be nice.


----------



## legopro87 (Nov 6, 2016)

Strugglebus said:


> Hi all,
> I have a quick sizing question for you Krampus owners.
> All of my bikes are a large. All of the numbers for the Krampus look like a large lines up with the fit of my other bikes except for one. The stand over is well over an inch taller then my el mar or beargrease. Has anyone seen this as a problem or am I overthinking it? I'm a hair under 5'11 and have a 33" inseam. Thanks a lot


You're about the same size as me. Maybe half inch taller. I have a large newer red Krampus. It's not my main ride but it seems to fit ok. I would prefer a medium though, for the exact reason you mentioned. The standover height is a bit too high for me.

I bought it for my wife for a killer price thinking it was a medium. But I was wrong and it's a large. Looking to swap the frame out to a small or medium so she can ride it. Until then it's all mine!

I would say you should get a Medium if you are going to ride more technical single track or a Large if you're going to use it as a bike packing rig.


----------



## Strugglebus (Dec 6, 2017)

Thanks for the info, It’s a huge help


----------



## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

Hmmm, Krampus... OR... 29+ wheelset for my 907 Whiteout?

Can a 113mm square taper bb with a White crank fit the krampus since it has a 73mm bb shell? Prob not, need more space, eh?


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Kirkerik said:


> Hmmm, Krampus... OR... 29+ wheelset for my 907 Whiteout?
> 
> Can a 113mm square taper bb with a White crank fit the krampus since it has a 73mm bb shell? Prob not, need more space, eh?


I don't know about the bottom bracket but I did have 29+ wheels on my Whiteout. I did like it but I liked it better fat front and 29+ on the rear. I like my Krampus better straight up 29+.


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Hey all Krampus mushers...

so I want to get new bars for my Krampus v1. I still have the original Salsa bars. I would like to go a bit smaller in length. what are the new "hip" bars to look at? I am still mostly riding single track in the midwest (Ohio/Michigan) and bike packing. I am thinking of going down about 10-15cm total(?) Not really lookign to reduce weight or anything, but would not be against that. Have never had carbon fiber anything, but am willing to try...


----------



## bryanmac (Jul 18, 2012)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Hey all Krampus mushers...
> 
> so I want to get new bars for my Krampus v1. I still have the original Salsa bars. I would like to go a bit smaller in length. what are the new "hip" bars to look at? I am still mostly riding single track in the midwest (Ohio/Michigan) and bike packing. I am thinking of going down about 10-15cm total(?) Not really lookign to reduce weight or anything, but would not be against that. Have never had carbon fiber anything, but am willing to try...


well, you could simply cut the stock bars to make them shorter! Otherwise, carver makes the titanium pry bar in 5, 9, 11, or 17 degree bend for around $100. I went with the 17* for my bikepacking bike and really like the relaxed grip. Good compromise between flat bar and jones style. Easier on the wrists and still stable on the rougher trails. Titanium will dampen the impact some compared to Al and more durable/cheaper than carbon.


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Hey all Krampus mushers...
> 
> so I want to get new bars for my Krampus v1. I still have the original Salsa bars. I would like to go a bit smaller in length. what are the new "hip" bars to look at? I am still mostly riding single track in the midwest (Ohio/Michigan) and bike packing. I am thinking of going down about 10-15cm total(?) Not really lookign to reduce weight or anything, but would not be against that. Have never had carbon fiber anything, but am willing to try...


I have Jones bars on three of my bikes. Love em.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

bryanmac said:


> well, you could simply cut the stock bars to make them shorter! Otherwise, carver makes the titanium pry bar in 5, 9, 11, or 17 degree bend for around $100. I went with the 17* for my bikepacking bike and really like the relaxed grip. Good compromise between flat bar and jones style. Easier on the wrists and still stable on the rougher trails. Titanium will dampen the impact some compared to Al and more durable/cheaper than carbon.


yeah. I might try cutting the current bars first to see what feels good. I just feel the 780 is too much(?) Like if they were a bit shorter the bike would be a tad more responsive, and I wouldn't have to worry about clipping trees etc in tight areas.

$100 for Titanium? That seems pretty inexpensive. Would be cool to try that possibly. I was thinking carbon fiber was less than titanium...


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## mountaindude (Jun 27, 2017)

NYrr496 said:


> I have Jones bars on three of my bikes. Love em.


I love my Jones bars as well. Added them to the Krampus a couple months ago. I had a bad road bike crash while commuting in late September. I fractured both hands and my face. I've been using the Krampus as my recovery bike and primary winter commuter and am amazed at how well it rolls on pavement when I'm in the aero position. I find it more comfortable than being in the drops on road bars. The Ergon GC1 grips made a huge difference in comfort since they straighten out the wrists on swept bars. I haven't tested the Jones bars off road yet but I'm looking forward to it. I may cut them down from 710 later on, but the upright position works great in the city.


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## bryanmac (Jul 18, 2012)

sXeXBMXer said:


> yeah. I might try cutting the current bars first to see what feels good. I just feel the 780 is too much(?) Like if they were a bit shorter the bike would be a tad more responsive, and I wouldn't have to worry about clipping trees etc in tight areas.
> 
> $100 for Titanium? That seems pretty inexpensive. Would be cool to try that possibly. I was thinking carbon fiber was less than titanium...


ya, 780 is long IMO. And yes, that's a great deal for Ti. After breaking 2 carbon seatposts and a few frames(Im 175# and mostly ride xc) Im pretty much done with carbon. Any brand name carbon bars are going to be well over $100 and I wouldn't take any chances with cheaper no name carbon bars on heavy rigid plus tire mountain bike.


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## bryanmac (Jul 18, 2012)

and if you want a little more sweep which seems to be the new trend, salsa makes the Bend 2 Bar, aluminum, available with 23* sweep. I was looking hard at that one but the carver with 17* was plenty for me....


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

mountaindude said:


> I love my Jones bars as well. Added them to the Krampus a couple months ago. I had a bad road bike crash while commuting in late September. I fractured both hands and my face. I've been using the Krampus as my recovery bike and primary winter commuter and am amazed at how well it rolls on pavement when I'm in the aero position. I find it more comfortable than being in the drops on road bars. The Ergon GC1 grips made a huge difference in comfort since they straighten out the wrists on swept bars. I haven't tested the Jones bars off road yet but I'm looking forward to it. I may cut them down from 710 later on, but the upright position works great in the city.


Haha! When I started riding trails with Jones bars, the first three or four rides were a little scary. If I caught a little air I'd wind up off the trail. I got used to them and now I'm totally good with them.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

bryanmac said:


> and if you want a little more sweep which seems to be the new trend, salsa makes the Bend 2 Bar, aluminum, available with 23* sweep. I was looking hard at that one but the carver with 17* was plenty for me....


yeah..the titanium thign is looking more and more like an option! I do think 23 would be too much for the way I ride...it would be good for climbing, but not for down



NYrr496 said:


> Haha! When I started riding trails with Jones bars, the first three or four rides were a little scary. If I caught a little air I'd wind up off the trail. I got used to them and now I'm totally good with them.


that is why I did not go with Jones bars on my Krampus. I would not hesitate to put them on commuter though, and would probably switch them to the Krampus for bike packing


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

unclechet said:


> I added this Surly Snuggnut to my SS Krampus today. I kept tweaking the axle without it. I kind of miss the days of a real nut on both sides of the hub. I wish somebody would make an axle that would fit this hub, out of steel, and with a track nut on both ends. Then this bandaid wouldn't be required.


It might not be much help but you can convert shimano SLX and XT hubs to steel axles with threaded ends. I know they aren't SS specific, but its an option.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Is anyone running a Thomson dropper on their Lecacy Krampus? I have just noticed some rotational play in my post. My current post is about 3 months old and a warranty for my old one they couldn't fix after about 4 attempts. It is only a slight bit of play at the moment so maybe some slight wear on the keyway bushes after a fairly muddy winter.

I love the Thomson when its working but it annoying when it doesn't.

Are there any other good alternatives?


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## Jil (Jan 21, 2018)

e-Krampus


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## legopro87 (Nov 6, 2016)

Jil said:


> View attachment 1185956
> 
> 
> e-Krampus


Cool e-Krampus. Which kit and battery pack are you running? Bafang? It's the cleanest looking install I've seen and want to do something similar on an upcoming build.


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## Jil (Jan 21, 2018)

Thank you 

The motor is a Bafang BBS01 (48V).

The battery is a small homemade pack 14S-2P (350 Wh) with INR18650-3450mAh Samsung cells (picture below).
I am going to build a 14S-3P pack (ie. 520 Wh), it will fit also in the frame bag (Topeak Midloader 3 liters). I prefer to use a battery in a frame bag (with protective foam) for offroad riding than an hardpack... and I like building my own batteries 
I think you can find commercial batteries that can fit into the Topeak Midloader.

The tires are Maxxis Chronicle 3", and the wheels Sunringle SL50 Mulefut.

And the saddle is the Daniel Proust Dolomite, sooo comfortable !


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## legopro87 (Nov 6, 2016)

Jil said:


> Thank you
> 
> The motor is a Bafang BBS01 (48V).
> 
> ...


Awesome! Thanks Jil!


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

fartymarty said:


> Is anyone running a Thomson dropper on their Lecacy Krampus? I have just noticed some rotational play in my post. My current post is about 3 months old and a warranty for my old one they couldn't fix after about 4 attempts. It is only a slight bit of play at the moment so maybe some slight wear on the keyway bushes after a fairly muddy winter.
> 
> I love the Thomson when its working but it annoying when it doesn't.
> 
> Are there any other good alternatives?


I love my Revive dropper. It has proven to be very reliable for the past few months.


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

jonshonda said:


> It might not be much help but you can convert shimano SLX and XT hubs to steel axles with threaded ends. I know they aren't SS specific, but its an option.


just an FYI i did that on a singlespeed road bike and found that with the torque you apply to the nuts when you tighened loosened them; the hubs would always get loose and tight. i wouldn't recommend going that route. and i LOVE shimano hubs; so it isn't that i think they are bad hubs. those cones just need to stay properly adjusted or they turn crappy real quick.


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## Glenngineer (Mar 4, 2014)

Kirkerik said:


> I love my Revive dropper. It has proven to be very reliable for the past few months.


No 27.2 option...or else I'd own 2. Love mine on the Canfield, make me hate the KS Lev on my surly that much more.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Glenngineer said:


> No 27.2 option...or else I'd own 2. Love mine on the Canfield, make me hate the KS Lev on my surly that much more.


I was looking for a 27.2 alternative to Thomson. I have also read the KS is not great.

Sounds like I am stuck with the Thomson.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

fartymarty said:


> I was looking for a 27.2 alternative to Thomson. I have also read the KS is not great.
> 
> Sounds like I am stuck with the Thomson.


Just a suggestion... Re frame your legacy Krampus with a new one. Seat post is 30.9 on the new ones.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

NYrr496 said:


> Just a suggestion... Re frame your legacy Krampus with a new one. Seat post is 30.9 on the new ones.


could do or spend the cash on something else and run it without a dropper (maybe SS rigid and plus... again)


----------



## Yeti Clyde (Dec 12, 2004)

Sorry, another sizing question....I'm ready to pull the trigger on a new Krampus, I'm 6' even with a 32" inseam and a longer torso. My current bike is a "Large 19"" Monocog ...

I ride midwest single track, I was leaning towards the Medium, but now thinking the Large is a better fit...

Actually my eye's have glazed over comparing all the dimensions....:madman:

The eff tt and stand over are about an inch more on the large Krampus than my Monocog and the medium is about a half inch shorter eff tt. 

Any input would be welcomed.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

At 6' your a large all day so long as you don't have abnormally short legs and can't manage the standover.

Modern geo has longer TT's with shorter stems. You can't compare your (old school XC) Monocog directly. (Nice Monocog BTW)


----------



## mountaindude (Jun 27, 2017)

*OneSpeed* said:


> At 6' your a large all day so long as you don't have abnormally short legs and can't manage the standover.
> 
> Modern geo has longer TT's with shorter stems. You can't compare your (old school XC) Monocog directly. (Nice Monocog BTW)


I agree. I'm 5'9" and have a medium Krampus. It fits me well, so I, too, don't see Yeti Clyde on a medium.


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

*OneSpeed* said:


> At 6' your a large all day so long as you don't have abnormally short legs and can't manage the standover.
> 
> Modern geo has longer TT's with shorter stems. You can't compare your (old school XC) Monocog directly. (Nice Monocog BTW)


I am 6' as well, and have a large Version 1 Krampus. Sometimes I wish I would have got a medium, mostly because I rode BMX for so long that I am used to having a smaller bike under me, but I have mostly adjusted now 2 years later. Test ride both sizes if you can...


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I'm 6'1" and ride a large (legacy Krampus) but would have gone XL if it didn't have a huge stand over. Definitely get the L. You can always make a bike shorter but you cant make it longer.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

What is the butt to bar (centre seat post at 30" seat height to centre if bars) on your current bike. My large Krampus with 50mm stem is about 725mm. 

I have ridden a 510mm reach Mondraker and it had a similar butt to bar as my bike (441 reach) but longer ETT and steeper STA. As such felt similar when seated.


----------



## lastchance (May 15, 2016)

Echoing large, I'm 5'-11" with a 32" inseam, I could've gone medium but the cockpit felt short/cramped.


----------



## Yeti Clyde (Dec 12, 2004)

Thank's for the replies..

Old BMX rider, you can tell from my SS paint as well who put's cro-moly cranks and an already hefty bike...

One of the guy's on my CX team has a large legacy Krampus, I know the geo changed but I imagine it would be similar to tell overall sizing, gonna try and ride his this week

Thanks again


----------



## Yeti Clyde (Dec 12, 2004)

Pulled the trigger on a new black large, should have it in a few days.

Thanks for the help !


----------



## AVLthumper (Jul 14, 2015)

Yeti Clyde said:


> Pulled the trigger on a new black large, should have it in a few days.
> 
> Thanks for the help !


Frame set or complete? My shop says the frames won't be in stock until April 30.


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## Yeti Clyde (Dec 12, 2004)

Complete, according to my shop a few black completes out there, had pickled beet as a 1st choice, but out of stock until May 5th...


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## AVLthumper (Jul 14, 2015)

Yeti Clyde said:


> Complete, according to my shop a few black completes out there, had pickled beet as a 1st choice, but out of stock until May 5th...


That makes sense. I ordered a Black frame set about a month ago. ETA is somewhere near the end of April or beginning of May.

My shop has a complete Medium Pickled Beet and Large Apple Red in stock if anybody is looking near Asheville, NC.


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## Hman0217 (Apr 14, 2017)

AVLthumper said:


> My shop has a complete Medium Pickled Beet and Large Apple Red in stock if anybody is looking near Asheville, NC.


I don't suppose you'd be interested in shipping it to a fellow up here in the Northeast, would ya!?


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

ok...tried to search the thread, but nothing really came up, so here is the question...

will a dropper seat post work on my 2015 (Gen 1) Krampus? I think I might drink the Kool Aid this summer to see if I like it...

I thought I have read where that version will not accept a dropper post...


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

I had one on my old Krampus, you just need external routing. That and there's somewhat limited options for 27.2.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

sXeXBMXer said:


> ok...tried to search the thread, but nothing really came up, so here is the question...
> 
> will a dropper seat post work on my 2015 (Gen 1) Krampus? I think I might drink the Kool Aid this summer to see if I like it...
> 
> I thought I have read where that version will not accept a dropper post...


Yes it will accept a dropper and work fine. You just need to get a dropper that fits the smaller diameter seat tube [available, but not as many options as more common sizes] and is externally routed [available, but also fewer choices] or you need to drill out a hole in the seat tube for an stealth dropper [not a big deal if you want to go that route].


----------



## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

sXeXBMXer said:


> ok...tried to search the thread, but nothing really came up, so here is the question...
> 
> will a dropper seat post work on my 2015 (Gen 1) Krampus? I think I might drink the Kool Aid this summer to see if I like it...
> 
> I thought I have read where that version will not accept a dropper post...


Yup just have to find a dropper that fits in 27.2. I have a Gravity Dropper turbo on mine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I have a 27.2 Thomson which has an externally routed cable. It has 125mm drop which is fine. It has developed a bit of rotational play after a wet UK winter but is good otherwise. There are also a few others with less drop.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

*OneSpeed* said:


> I had one on my old Krampus, you just need external routing. That and there's somewhat limited options for 27.2.





vikb said:


> Yes it will accept a dropper and work fine. You just need to get a dropper that fits the smaller diameter seat tube [available, but not as many options as more common sizes] and is externally routed [available, but also fewer choices] or you need to drill out a hole in the seat tube for an stealth dropper [not a big deal if you want to go that route].





geraldooka said:


> Yup just have to find a dropper that fits in 27.2. I have a Gravity Dropper turbo on mine.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





fartymarty said:


> I have a 27.2 Thomson which has an externally routed cable. It has 125mm drop which is fine. It has developed a bit of rotational play after a wet UK winter but is good otherwise. There are also a few others with less drop.


cool. Thanks all! I think I had heard that the ST was too skinny to accept most posts, but this all helps!!!


----------



## 4AM (Jun 6, 2017)

Been thinking about getting a Krampus to try out the plus size stuff and have a bike for off road bikepacking/touring. Looks like you get a lot for your money. Does anybody know if you can fit the vee tire Bulldozer 29x3.25 tires in the frame?


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

4AM said:


> Been thinking about getting a Krampus to try out the plus size stuff and have a bike for off road bikepacking/touring. Looks like you get a lot for your money. Does anybody know if you can fit the vee tire Bulldozer 29x3.25 tires in the frame?


I have one on the front of my Krampus and it fits great. I'll see if it fits in the rear tomorrow. I bet it will but I have to see it before I say it.


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Gettim' muddy today....

















don't know about the new Krampus, but I think the 3.25's would be a real tight fit in the chainstay of the Krampus Ver 1 (like mine), and would definitely rub if they had lower PSI...


----------



## Glenngineer (Mar 4, 2014)

I'm sure 3.25s would fit in the current gen, but you'd be light on clearance...I really appreciate have some room for mid, flex, and tweaked rims. My poor ECR is worn on the left and right, seat and chainstay, because it was just too tight.


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

4AM said:


> Been thinking about getting a Krampus to try out the plus size stuff and have a bike for off road bikepacking/touring. Looks like you get a lot for your money. Does anybody know if you can fit the vee tire Bulldozer 29x3.25 tires in the frame?

















Sorry I took so long to get this. This a 29x3.25" Vee Bulldozer in a new Krampus with the axle most of the way back. Fits mint.


----------



## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

NYrr496 said:


> View attachment 1194531
> View attachment 1194532
> 
> 
> Sorry I took so long to get this. This a 29x3.25" Vee Bulldozer in a new Krampus with the axle most of the way back. Fits mint.


Looks great! How do you guys like the Bulldozer vs the Crux? Sorry if this has been hashed out already


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

CCSS said:


> Looks great! How do you guys like the Bulldozer vs the Crux? Sorry if this has been hashed out already


I never got to try a Crux. I wanted to order it and Jones turned me on to the Bulldozer. They said it was the better tire.


----------



## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

NYrr496 said:


> I never got to try a Crux. I wanted to order it and Jones turned me on to the Bulldozer. They said it was the better tire.


Wow, the Bulldozer must be amazing because I'm really digging the Crux! I've been riding 29+ since mid 2013 when the Knard was the only tire available, and at this point I've ridden a bunch. Three rides in, and the Crux is my fav. Awesome that we now have legit option!


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

CCSS said:


> Wow, the Bulldozer must be amazing because I'm really digging the Crux! I've been riding 29+ since mid 2013 when the Knard was the only tire available, and at this point I've ridden a bunch. Three rides in, and the Crux is my fav. Awesome that we now have legit option!


On my Krampus, I run the Bulldozer on the front and a Chupacabra on the rear. One of my friends runs a Dirt Wizard rear and Bulldozer front. My son just asked me for a Bulldozer for the front of his bike yesterday. Glad to see I've successfully turned my thirteen year old son into a tire snob with expensive taste.


----------



## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

Dude, I'm jealous! I tried like hell to get my 14 year old son into mountain biking. I'd much rather have been buying sweet 29+ tires than video games! Well done, Sir.


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

CCSS said:


> Dude, I'm jealous! I tried like hell to get my 14 year old son into mountain biking. I'd much rather have been buying sweet 29+ tires than video games! Well done, Sir.























He started riding with me when he was five. He's 13 now. Make no mistake... He plays plenty of video games too.


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

CCSS said:


> Dude, I'm jealous! I tried like hell to get my 14 year old son into mountain biking. I'd much rather have been buying sweet 29+ tires than video games! Well done, Sir.


yeah...I curbed the video game thing with my step son (16) by making him buy the video games...we definitely bike more together!!!


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

CCSS said:


> Wow, the Bulldozer must be amazing because I'm really digging the Crux! I've been riding 29+ since mid 2013 when the Knard was the only tire available, and at this point I've ridden a bunch. Three rides in, and the Crux is my fav. Awesome that we now have legit option!


does the Crux do well in muddy/wet dirt? Looks like it would. I have Knards on right now, but feel like for most of our trails (Ohio and Michigan is where I ride the most), I want something a little more grippy that sheds mud better


----------



## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

sXeXBMXer said:


> does the Crux do well in muddy/wet dirt? Looks like it would. I have Knards on right now, but feel like for most of our trails (Ohio and Michigan is where I ride the most), I want something a little more grippy that sheds mud better


So I can't say for sure about the wet performance of the Crux, but I suspect it's going to be solid. On super chunky, rocky, ledgy stuff, it kicks ass!


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

CCSS said:


> So I can't say for sure about the wet performance of the Crux, but I suspect it's going to be solid. On super chunky, rocky, ledgy stuff, it kicks ass!


sweet...I am pretty much sold on trying them after doing some more reading. Might try the 3inch version instead of 3.25....from all I have read, the knobs seem to be pretty big so the 3.25 might be pushing it in the chainstay

would keep my Knards for touring


----------



## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Selling my Fox 34 if anyone is interested. This is the 27.5 plus / 29er model with tons of tire clearance. I used to run this fork on my Krampus with a 29x3.0 setup.

2017 Fox 34 Factory 140mm FIT4 Boost 27.5 plus / 29 - MTBR Classifieds


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

AOK said:


> Selling my Fox 34 if anyone is interested. This is the 27.5 plus / 29er model with tons of tire clearance. I used to run this fork on my Krampus with a 29x3.0 setup.
> 
> 2017 Fox 34 Factory 140mm FIT4 Boost 27.5 plus / 29 - MTBR Classifieds


Huh, you ran your Krampus with a 140 fork? That's the most I've heard of. Was that the newer frame or the original Green Krampus?


----------



## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

The F34 in question was on a Krampus Ops. I had a original green several years ago and also ran a 140mm fork on it (back then I had a Pike that I had modified the arch to fit). 

I don't think I am the only one that has run 140 on a Krampus. I seem to recall seeing posts from several folks that have used a 140 F34 on a Krampus.


----------



## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I also have run a 140mm fork (Pike) on my green Krampus with a -2 Works headset which also drops the front. It was awesome downhill but the STA was too slack for climbing so I went back to 120mm. 

It may work better on a new Krampus as the STA is steeper to start with. I think you would need an angle set to keep the front low.


----------



## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

*Rear center, boost, bluto?*



NYrr496 said:


> View attachment 1194531
> View attachment 1194532
> 
> 
> Sorry I took so long to get this. This a 29x3.25" Vee Bulldozer in a new Krampus with the axle most of the way back. Fits mint.


I love that the Duro 3.25's fit! Sweet!

What's your rear center with the axle most of the way back? Surly's listed 435mm is w the axle slammed forward?

Is that a boost crankset?

Anyone know if the bluto crown will clear the down tube on the Krampei?


----------



## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

... some reports of better chainline w/ non-Boost cranksets on the Karate Monkey.


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Kirkerik said:


> I love that the Duro 3.25's fit! Sweet!


same here...those are what I want to run this summer...would get the 3.0's as well, but they might be harder to find?


----------



## slimbean mcgee (Oct 25, 2014)

FYI Duro 3.25 doesn't fit the rear of a green Krampus. I've not run into a 3.0 Duro Crux, but would pick one up if I do...


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

slimbean mcgee said:


> FYI Duro 3.25 doesn't fit the rear of a green Krampus. I've not run into a 3.0 Duro Crux, but would pick one up if I do...


crappo....well, back to the search...


----------



## NesquikNinja (May 7, 2013)

Does anyone have a go-to or a favorite set of mudguards or fenders for the Krampus? The old model, OPS if it matters.


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Kirkerik said:


> I love that the Duro 3.25's fit! Sweet!
> 
> What's your rear center with the axle most of the way back? Surly's listed 435mm is w the axle slammed forward?
> 
> ...


I'll measure the rear tonight when I get home.

If I remember correctly, the Boost offset is in the Wolftooth chain ring. I'm pretty sure the cranks are regular Aeffect cranks.


----------



## rlwilliams12 (Jun 19, 2017)

Just ordered a new Krampus frame. Do the adapters for 135mm QR come with the frame? Or do they need to be ordered separately?


----------



## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

rlwilliams12 said:


> Just ordered a new Krampus frame. Do the adapters for 135mm QR come with the frame? Or do they need to be ordered separately?


Purchased Separately.


----------



## rlwilliams12 (Jun 19, 2017)

Single Speed Krampus. I'm sure this has been covered, but I can't find it. I just set up my new krampus single speed and am having trouble keeping the axle from slipping. How are others dealing with this issue? Do the old Tuggnuts work with the new dropouts? 

Also any suggestions on cranks/chainrings? My old Race Face Ride 32t doesn't fit unless I move the chainring outboard of the spider. This seems to put the chainline pretty far out.

Thanks!


----------



## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

rlwilliams12 said:


> Single Speed Krampus. I'm sure this has been covered, but I can't find it. I just set up my new krampus single speed and am having trouble keeping the axle from slipping. How are others dealing with this issue? Do the old Tuggnuts work with the new dropouts?
> 
> Also any suggestions on cranks/chainrings? My old Race Face Ride 32t doesn't fit unless I move the chainring outboard of the spider. This seems to put the chainline pretty far out.
> 
> Thanks!


Regarding slipping axles, the new snugg nut is supposed to fit. https://surlybikes.com/parts/small_parts/snuggnut


----------



## Fatbikefan (Oct 12, 2017)

*New red krampus tire experiences*



sXeXBMXer said:


> sweet...I am pretty much sold on trying them after doing some more reading. Might try the 3inch version instead of 3.25....from all I have read, the knobs seem to be pretty big so the 3.25 might be pushing it in the chainstay
> 
> would keep my Knards for touring


I have ridden original surly tires (very heavy, slow) switched to 3.25 Duro Crux, bigger & lighter faster rolling than Surly 60 tpi dirt wizards! Then tried Terrene McFlys 29x2.8 lights, even lighter, better rolling resistance than Duro Crux, I love both the Duro Crux & McFly, I may do a Duro Crux front & Mcfly rear to try to maximize ride. (I also added a Thudbuster ST which helped my old bones) Appreciate others input to dial in the Krampus, thx!


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Fatbikefan said:


> I have ridden original surly tires (very heavy, slow) switched to 3.25 Duro Crux, bigger & lighter faster rolling than Surly 60 tpi dirt wizards! Then tried Terrene McFlys 29x2.8 lights, even lighter, better rolling resistance than Duro Crux, I love both the Duro Crux & McFly, I may do a Duro Crux front & Mcfly rear to try to maximize ride. (I also added a Thudbuster ST which helped my old bones) Appreciate others input to dial in the Krampus, thx!


never thought about "going down" to 2.8's...I am not a weight weenie so weight does not really matter. i just want better grip and dirt shedding capabilities. I have heard a lot of good news about the McFly's recently as well.


----------



## rlwilliams12 (Jun 19, 2017)

croatiansensation said:


> Regarding slipping axles, the new snugg nut is supposed to fit. https://surlybikes.com/parts/small_parts/snuggnut


Turns out the Tuggnut works great. The surly site says to use the Tuggnut if you're using a quick release axle with the washers.


----------



## NesquikNinja (May 7, 2013)

Anyone have rust starting on their inner chain stays? The area that comes closest to the tires. Kind of seems like the minimal clearance here is the culprit. 

Just surface rust right now, I could probably clean it with sand paper by hand


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

NesquikNinja said:


> Anyone have rust starting on their inner chain stays? The area that comes closest to the tires. Kind of seems like the minimal clearance here is the culprit.
> 
> Just surface rust right now, I could probably clean it with sand paper by hand


Please don't sand paper anything, you'll just make it worse.

Pics?

Your best bet is to clean, paint/treat, or wrap with electrical tape.


----------



## dpath2o (Jun 22, 2018)

*Action Purchase by economical means*

Hello Surly Krampus Thread,

I have coveted a Krampus since it's release and i am finally in a position to purchase. Unfortunately, with regard to this particular purchase, I live in Australia, and long story short the best price that I can find in Aus is 35% more than the average online cost in the states, that is even after exchange rate and shipping quotes. The unfortunate part is that no online retailer that I have found in the States is willing to ship internationally. Therefore I am in the process of asking a trusted family member there in the States if they are willing to pick-up the bike from a local shop from their town that is online retailer and pack it up carefully and send it along to me as a gift.

I am curious to hear if anyone here as gone through a similar process to obtain their Krampus, or possibly knows a retailer that is willing to ship directly to Aus.

Cheers!


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## NesquikNinja (May 7, 2013)

dpath2o said:


> Hello Surly Krampus Thread,
> 
> I have coveted a Krampus since it's release and i am finally in a position to purchase. Unfortunately, with regard to this particular purchase, I live in Australia, and long story short the best price that I can find in Aus is 35% more than the average online cost in the states, that is even after exchange rate and shipping quotes. The unfortunate part is that no online retailer that I have found in the States is willing to ship internationally. Therefore I am in the process of asking a trusted family member there in the States if they are willing to pick-up the bike from a local shop from their town that is online retailer and pack it up carefully and send it along to me as a gift.
> 
> ...


Right on man.

Hey a few years back I did business with a guy from Australia, I gathered a few thousand in dirtbike parts (he paid for them all) and I shipped it all to him. Supposedly saved him a **** load, despite costing $300 to ship the box I packaged up for him

If you need a hand getting your Krampus send me a message, I'd be glad to help you out!

Love my Krampus, love Australia.


----------



## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

dpath2o said:


> Hello Surly Krampus Thread,
> 
> I have coveted a Krampus since it's release and i am finally in a position to purchase. Unfortunately, with regard to this particular purchase, I live in Australia, and long story short the best price that I can find in Aus is 35% more than the average online cost in the states, that is even after exchange rate and shipping quotes. The unfortunate part is that no online retailer that I have found in the States is willing to ship internationally. Therefore I am in the process of asking a trusted family member there in the States if they are willing to pick-up the bike from a local shop from their town that is online retailer and pack it up carefully and send it along to me as a gift.
> 
> ...


Talk to these people: http://smartbikeparts.com/

I've bought various things from them and shipping to Australia has always been reasonable. They are very helpful.

Tim

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dpath2o (Jun 22, 2018)

Thanks mate. I followed Wombat’s advice above. Very kind of you.


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## dpath2o (Jun 22, 2018)

Thanks for that Tim. I am now the proud new owner of a Surly Krampus frame en route courtesy of Smart Bike Parts. Very helpful. Very efficient. Very pleased!
Now on to sourcing the parts 
Curious to hear what people have done for their build ours. Thought I noticed a specific thread discussing this topic. I’ll venture over to that thread. Thanks again for the help!


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## gonzo2213 (Mar 2, 2011)

Hey mate, just bought a krampus frame locally from Omafiets in sydney for $1100

Bike-components.de have them in stock and with shipping comes to around $930aud. Factor in the GST that is now collected at customs. 

If you want stuff from the US, use shipito.com
They have package consolidation services where they will repackage several packages into one for a fee. Have been using them for about 5 years and am very happy with their service.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Everybody see the new purple framesets?


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

4,377 posts and 7 years on this thread for this bike.
FOUR THOUSAND THREE HUNDRED SEVENTY SEVEN POSTS AND SEVEN YEARS the Krampus has been going,
With old skool geo and cromo steel this bike continues while others come and go...

Wowza 

I am very Impressed.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Osco said:


> 4,377 posts and 7 years on this thread for this bike.
> FOUR THOUSAND THREE HUNDRED SEVENTY SEVEN POSTS AND SEVEN YEARS the Krampus has been going,
> With old skool geo and cromo steel this bike continues while others come and go...
> 
> ...


Indeed, and still going strong. I'll be finishing my build on a new Krampus frame soon and plan on posting up pics and ride impressions vs the original Krampus.

Really looking forward to riding the new Krampus!


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

And here it is. Very happy with the initial impression. I may tweak the stem, and may add a 1x11 drivetrain down the road, but I'm loving it so far. The colors are pretty loud, not sure if I went too far or not far enough?

The build:

Surly Krampus frame with custom powder coat
Manitou Mattoc 120mm fork
White Industries Hubs laced to Sun Ringle Durroc 50mm rims (powder coated)
Maxxis Minion DHF/DHR 3.0"
SQ Labs 30X Carbon 16 degree handlebar
WI Headset matches the hubs 
OneUp 170mm dropper with Wolftooth lever
XT 180mm cranks
Wheels Manufacturing Angular Contact BB
Magura Trail Brakes: 4 piston/2 piston


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

looks like one of my bikes! noice!


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## mürrisch (Jan 24, 2018)

Here is my Krampus!

It's a custom build size L in pickled beet red with white stickers. The fork is a 120 mm Revelation 27.5+/29 Boost. Drive train is a "double"- 1x10 (two NW chain rings 28 and 34 teeth, 11-42 in the rear).
The rigit fork is prepared for an easy fork switch.

Gesendet von meinem SM-A320FL mit Tapatalk


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Osco said:


> 4,377 posts and 7 years on this thread for this bike.
> FOUR THOUSAND THREE HUNDRED SEVENTY SEVEN POSTS AND SEVEN YEARS the Krampus has been going,
> With old skool geo and cromo steel this bike continues while others come and go...
> 
> ...


I was out on my Krampus yesterday and helped two guys with a mechanical. They both had FS bikes and both kept going on about my bike asking if it really was as fun as FS. I told em I used to ride FS but now the frame is in my basement while I ride this.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

mürrisch said:


> Here is my Krampus!
> 
> It's a custom build size L in pickled beet red with white stickers. The fork is a 120 mm Revelation 27.5+/29 Boost. Drive train is a "double"- 1x10 (two NW chain rings 28 and 34 teeth, 11-42 in the rear).
> The rigit fork is prepared for an easy fork switch.
> ...


sweet build!!

been on my OG Krampus now for 3 years...love it!


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## AK de FLA (Jan 2, 2015)

Krampus on Maxxis Hookworms 29x2.5", otherwise stock right now. The new color gets no justice on Surly's website. It's got a great blueish sheen over the purple in person.

Thule Chariot Cross 2 in tow... For those brochachos looking to pull stuff, I recommend getting this: https://robertaxleproject.com/shop/thru-axle-bob-trailer-surly-gnot-boost-151-157-mm/

Thinking about going drops and a carbon fork later.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

AK de FLA said:


> View attachment 1215761
> 
> 
> The new color gets no justice on Surly's website. *It's got a great blueish sheen over the purple in person*.


Prove it, that picture does it no justice either.


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## AK de FLA (Jan 2, 2015)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Prove it, that picture does it no justice either.


I had that one coming...

Still not the best, but hopefully better. :thumbsup:


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

AK de FLA said:


> I had that one coming...
> 
> Still not the best, but hopefully better. :thumbsup:
> 
> View attachment 1216012


reminds me of my old Trek...the one that my green Krampus replaced, that is now my commuter


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## ride more (Oct 26, 2009)

New bruised ego purpleKrampus in the wild. Nice but not over the top build.










XL Frame
Salsa Firestarter fork
Cane Creek 40 headset
Thomson stem 70mm
Answer Pro Taper Carbon 810 SL bars 780mm
Ergon GA3 Grips - different than pic
Shimano XT brakes
Shimano XT shifter & rear derailleur 
RaceFace ARC35 rims 32 hole
DT Swiss 350 hubs w/ 36 tooth star upgrade 
DT Swiss Revolution Spokes black brass nipples 
Panaracer Fat B Nimble tires
Thomson seatpost
SQ Labs 610 saddle 
SRAM X1 Direct mount crankset 30T
SRAM GXP bottom bracket
KMC 11 speed gold SL chain
SRAM 1150 10-42 cassette

#surlykrampus

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

ride more said:


> New bruised ego purpleKrampus in the wild. Nice but not over the top build.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that is freakin' tuff!!!

are the Fat b Nimbles like the Knards? I am looking for some tires for mine (OG 2015) that are a bit grippier for wet/loose/light snow riding. Still have Knards on it, which are good for summer and gravel, but when it is a bit wetter, they don't shed mud well.

Also might check out the ARC35 rims for mine


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Also might check out the ARC35 rims for mine


Don't do 35's. Go to the 40. I have 35mm Velocity Blunts on my Krampus currently because when I was building up the bike I had just bought a house and my wife was freaking out about money. I had a pair of wheels from an old bike sitting around so I bought Boost adapters and used them. 
My son has 40mm Arcs on his bike with a WTB Ranger on the rear and a 3.25" Bulldozer on the front. Works great. Tire profile is great. I get some tire squirm with the 35mm rim. I just picked up a pair of 40's for my bike. I'll be lacing them up soon.


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## eness215 (Jul 22, 2010)

Another purple Krampus in the wild. Just got her built up Saturday and took her on the maiden voyage. Got a little too rad on some of the DH trails at the local ski hill and put a small hole in my front tire, but sealant took care of it. Looking forward to many more adventures with it...









Large Krampus Frame
Wheels = i9 hubs w/ WTB Scraper i45 rims & CX-ray spokes
WTB Ranger 3.0 Tires
Thomson carbon bars
Thomson stem
Thomson seatpost
GX DUB crank, X01 rear derrailer
SRAM Guide RSC brakes


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

eness215 said:


> Another purple Krampus in the wild. Just got her built up Saturday and took her on the maiden voyage. Got a little too rad on some of the DH trails at the local ski hill and put a small hole in my front tire, but sealant took care of it. Looking forward to many more adventures with it...
> 
> View attachment 1216750
> 
> ...


love seeing it still with a rigid fork...and for DH as well...AWESOME

do you like the WTB Rangers? I have been on the hunt for new tires and those are in the top 3 on the list...


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

Not very often you see a Krampus on the hills!









Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

eness215 said:


> Another purple Krampus in the wild. Just got her built up Saturday and took her on the maiden voyage. Got a little too rad on some of the DH trails at the local ski hill and put a small hole in my front tire, but sealant took care of it. Looking forward to many more adventures with it...
> 
> View attachment 1216750
> 
> ...


What size chainring?

I have a DUB crankset with 32T for my new frame and after holding up the cranks to the frame I'm worried about clearance at the chainstay.

Are you using any BB spacers?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

ELECTRIC_YETI said:


> Not very often you see a Krampus on the hills!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


another caption could be......

lurking


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## eness215 (Jul 22, 2010)

racefit said:


> What size chainring?
> 
> I have a DUB crankset with 32T for my new frame and after holding up the cranks to the frame I'm worried about clearance at the chainstay.
> 
> ...


It's the stock 32t boost chainring. Not using any spacers. It's close, but so far haven't had any noticeable flex in the chainstays that close to the BB, so I think I should be good. If I start to see any scrapes on the chainstay plate, I'll try putting some small shims between the frame and BB cup.



sXeXBMXer said:


> love seeing it still with a rigid fork...and for DH as well...AWESOME
> 
> do you like the WTB Rangers? I have been on the hunt for new tires and those are in the top 3 on the list...


So far so good on the Rangers. Only have two rides on them, but I like them. They are the fast/light version. I've been experimenting with pressure and think I've settled on about 12psi in the front and 15psi in the rear. I weight 180lbs with gear on. I'm going to chalk the small hole I got to the fact that I was doing sketchy lines through some sharp rocks on a DH style trail. The orange seal has been holding fine ever since.


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## croatiansensation (Feb 21, 2005)

eness215 said:


> So far so good on the Rangers. Only have two rides on them, but I like them. They are the fast/light version. I've been experimenting with pressure and think I've settled on about 12psi in the front and 15psi in the rear. I weight 180lbs with gear on. I'm going to chalk the small hole I got to the fact that I was doing sketchy lines through some sharp rocks on a DH style trail. The orange seal has been holding fine ever since.


Interesting, I was quickly destroying a light casing ranger on the front of my rigid Krampus at those pressures. Though, I am also around 50 lbs heavier that you. Good to know that they are a potential solution for lighter riders.


----------



## rootes1 (Nov 24, 2008)

*Fenders?*



Ripperme48 said:


> Here is mine with the OEM fork and fenders. :thumbsup:


Lovely looking bike - any ideas on the make/supplier of the fenders?

ta


----------



## Johnny Rhubarb (Jun 3, 2016)

finally got the Krampus ready


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Nice.


----------



## awilli (Jan 1, 2017)

Johnny Rhubarb said:


> View attachment 1223419
> 
> finally got the Krampus ready


Good looking bike! Who makes the handlebars you have installed?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Johnny Rhubarb said:


> View attachment 1223419
> 
> finally got the Krampus ready


Nicely done, really like the Blue on that frame. Nice looking build.


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## Johnny Rhubarb (Jun 3, 2016)

Thanks folks! Handlebars are the Oddmone Bars from Oddity Cycles


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## Glenngineer (Mar 4, 2014)

Looks awesome!

It's been pouring for about 24 hours and in the forties here... So I washed my Krampus for the first time since I built it in February.

Amazing how red Andy's Apple Red really is.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Chainstay rubbing...

I sanded mine back a bit and put some zinc rich primer (red oxide) on it. Ditto the other scratches I have on my frame.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Latest incarnation of my Legacy Krampus. Still awaits it maiden voyage. I have been running gears and 120mm Pikes so will be a little different.

STA measures 76 to centre of seat tube and 77 to centre of seat with -2 degree headset.

Still need to sort out gears as running 32/20 which maybe a bit big for some of the local hills.


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## Johnny Rhubarb (Jun 3, 2016)

Glenngineer said:


> Looks awesome!
> 
> It's been pouring for about 24 hours and in the forties here... So I washed my Krampus for the first time since I built it in February.
> 
> Amazing how red Andy's Apple Red really is.


Thanks! The red is much richer in reality; my shitty camera tends to turn it into something pinkish, especially in sunset...


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Love the blue Paul bits Johnny and the Rhubarb red.


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## Once Bitten (Apr 4, 2012)

I’ve got a set of 29+ rims that I’m trying to repurpose. I’m thinking a Krampus would be a good place to do this. 

My question is, how light can an XL Krampus be? Let’s say I set it up with carbon rims, fork, cockpit, cranks etc... I’ve even thought about running it as a single speed to start. Could this be a 22# rig? 

For those that put some effort into getting a light build. Where did you end up?


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Once Bitten - my rig is currently about 30# and built solidly. 

Gut feeling is you will struggle to get to 22# but I would love to be proved wrong. Assuming you are going single speed rigid and no dropper.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Once Bitten said:


> I've got a set of 29+ rims that I'm trying to repurpose. I'm thinking a Krampus would be a good place to do this.
> 
> My question is, how light can an XL Krampus be? Let's say I set it up with carbon rims, fork, cockpit, cranks etc... I've even thought about running it as a single speed to start. Could this be a 22# rig?
> 
> For those that put some effort into getting a light build. Where did you end up?


No chance. Why is your goal an arbitrary number anyway?

If you want an XC race bike, buy an XC race bike. There's plenty of light 29er or 29+ frames out there. The Krampus is rad, I love mine, but putting it on a scale will only result in disappointment.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

*OneSpeed* said:


> No chance. Why is your goal an arbitrary number anyway?
> 
> If you want an XC race bike, buy an XC race bike. There's plenty of light 29er or 29+ frames out there. The Krampus is rad, I love mine, but putting it on a scale will only result in disappointment.


agree...just ride it. It is sort of meant to be a tank in a way...at least that is one of the reasons I bought mine.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Once Bitten said:


> For those that put some effort into getting a light build. Where did you end up?


Last winter I finally bought myself a bike scale. I almost fell over when my XL 9ZERO7 fatbike with 4.8" tires and 2x10 drivetrain came up 3/4 of a pound lighter than my Krampus. Fattie 31.5 pounds, Krampus 32.25 pounds. 
I didn't build my bike to be a lightweight but figured it would be lighter than my fat bike. 
My Krampus has Raceface Aeffect cranks and a 1x11 drivetrain, SLX brakes, Thomson post, WTB saddle, Jones Loop Bars and is currently on 35mm Velocity Blunts, Hope hubs, 3" Chupacabra and 3.25" Vee Bulldozer. 
Here's the crazy part... It rides lighter and it way faster than my fat bike. The weight is a non issue.


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## pOrk (Jan 16, 2015)

Once Bitten said:


> I've got a set of 29+ rims that I'm trying to repurpose. I'm thinking a Krampus would be a good place to do this.
> 
> My question is, how light can an XL Krampus be? Let's say I set it up with carbon rims, fork, cockpit, cranks etc... I've even thought about running it as a single speed to start. Could this be a 22# rig?
> 
> For those that put some effort into getting a light build. Where did you end up?


This thing is reasonable on the parts and came in 25.5 lbs
Surly Krampus Super Bike - Riding With Ron


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I have done a quick calc by summing up the weight losses I could get on my bike. It looks like I could drop about 5 lbs (from 30 lbs) which gives you a 25 lb Krampus.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

pOrk said:


> This thing is reasonable on the parts and came in 25.5 lbs
> Surly Krampus Super Bike - Riding With Ron


Maybe 22# is achievable with the right build.... something like this https://www.pinkbike.com/news/building-the-worlds-lightest-29ers.html


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## pOrk (Jan 16, 2015)

fartymarty said:


> Maybe 22# is achievable with the right build.... something like this https://www.pinkbike.com/news/building-the-worlds-lightest-29ers.html


hahaha!

Im considering a krampus right now and just want it to weigh 31lbs. I have a 2019 SID RL (120mm) sitting around and would go with 29x3.0 chupacabras/tubeless and maybe a carbon post and bars. I think it would be close

22 just seems crazy.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Medium OG Krampus frame is 5.73lbs. The steel fork is another 2.43lbs. The current Krampus is a touch heavier in each size AFAIK.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Once Bitten said:


> I've got a set of 29+ rims that I'm trying to repurpose. I'm thinking a Krampus would be a good place to do this.
> 
> My question is, how light can an XL Krampus be? Let's say I set it up with carbon rims, fork, cockpit, cranks etc... I've even thought about running it as a single speed to start. Could this be a 22# rig?
> 
> For those that put some effort into getting a light build. Where did you end up?


Build:

XL Krampus
Manitou Magnum Pro 120
Cane Creek 110
40mm Nextie on Boost DT 240 w/ CX-Rays
Bontrager Chupacabras
X01 Eagle Grip Shift drivetrain 
XTR M9020 trail brakes
Bikeyoke Revive dropper 
Ritchey WCS Carbon trail 35 bar
Ritchey WCS Trail 35 stem
Specialized Phenom Pro saddle
ESI grips
XTR Pedals....
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170509/a73dc51154568814ae7ab05aeeb80400.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170509/4112d5a64b63e66414905788f8e23d96.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170509/03b6e5d4f6eb1bedb7e2e7ccc4e5fc75.jpg

This build was a hair over 28.5 lbs. with a heavy suspension fork and a dropper...so...going to be tough geared.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

NYrr496 said:


> Last winter I finally bought myself a bike scale. I almost fell over when my XL 9ZERO7 fatbike with 4.8" tires and 2x10 drivetrain came up 3/4 of a pound lighter than my Krampus. Fattie 31.5 pounds, Krampus 32.25 pounds.
> I didn't build my bike to be a lightweight but figured it would be lighter than my fat bike.
> My Krampus has Raceface Aeffect cranks and a 1x11 drivetrain, SLX brakes, Thomson post, WTB saddle, Jones Loop Bars and is currently on 35mm Velocity Blunts, Hope hubs, 3" Chupacabra and 3.25" Vee Bulldozer.
> Here's the crazy part... It rides lighter and it way faster than my fat bike. The weight is a non issue.


My OG Krampus with Pikes, 2.4 Tyres and Thomson dropper is about 32-33# and is built to be strong. As you say they ride lighter. I don't know if I would sacrifice strength / robustness for weight.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I apologize in advance for being too lazy to read all the way back through the thread, but I figured somebody here might have this info at their finger tips:

....what is the actual width of the current Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ tire?

I recall back when it first came out it was more of a 2.75" width tire, but I think it got revamped to a real 3" 29+ tire...I just can't remember.


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## mürrisch (Jan 24, 2018)

I did not mount my DWs at the moment and therefore cannot give exact dimensions. However, it is definitely less fat than a real 3.0 tyre like the knart or the chronicle. The designation 2.8 would rather fit to the DW.

Gesendet von meinem SM-A320FL mit Tapatalk


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

I don't recall exactly, but I seem to remember mine was 78-80mm. Pretty true to size but definitely not oversized.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

Should measure to be a true 3" on 50 mm rims.
https://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/surly-dirt-wizard-29-actual-measurements-966031-2.html

The original Surly design intent was a 2.75" tire, but they changed it to 3" prior to production. That was one of the reasons this tire was delayed for so long.

https://surlybikes.com/blog/dirt_wizard_29_and_my_yearly_rant_about_how_we_aint_perfect


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

maybe not a Krampus but a Pugsley with 29+ wheels. this was on a fall hunting trip.


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## renegade44 (Jan 18, 2007)

By the way, I am in the market for a rigid, 29er, singlespeed compatible, XL frameset. 29+ for the front, but not a deal breaker in the rear. traditional 135/100 hub spacing.

This won't be my primary bike, so looking for something used and cheap.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

renegade44 said:


> By the way, I am in the market for a rigid, 29er, singlespeed compatible, XL frameset. 29+ for the front, but not a deal breaker in the rear. traditional 135/100 hub spacing.
> 
> This won't be my primary bike, so looking for something used and cheap.


Kona Unit checks all your boxes.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Vik, 

I had a pair probably 2 years ago now and from memory they were about 2.8 across the knobs with the carcass being narrower. This was on Blunt P35 (30mm internal) rims.

They also weren't massively high volume and had a relatively nice low profile. The killer was the 1300g per tyre but other than that awesome tyres.

I now have a Minion DHF 3 up front which measures 3.0" exact on the knobs on 29mm internal rims.

I currently have my eye on a Bontrager SE5 2.6 which will hopefully be similar to the DW.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Kona Unit checks all your boxes.


Blasphemy... how could you not suggest a Krampus on the Krampus page. 

(edit - or you were being sarcastic, if so touche)


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## AK de FLA (Jan 2, 2015)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aero-29er-...m=263918247103&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598

Any experience with these Chinese carbon forks? I'd like to get a Whisky or Salsa, but I'm not doing $600.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies about the DWs.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

AK de FLA said:


> Any experience with these Chinese carbon forks? I'd like to get a Whisky or Salsa, but I'm not doing $600.


This one seems to have been well reviewed on a thread on MTBR. Just so happened to have it pulled up on my phone. http://www.tandellbikes.com/29er-plus-carbon-rigid-forks_p0934.html

I ran a carver xc470 on my Krampus forever, and it was amazing. But it's not boost and not TA.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

vikb said:


> Thanks for all the replies about the DWs.


Vik - I have a DW on the front of my Black Cat. I could fit it in the non suspension corrected steel fork (on an i30 rim). No way a chronicle would fit (locked up on the fork crown). It's a great front tire, but as mentioned above, it's >1300g in 60tpi. And if you have *any* sharp objects on your trails, you'll shred the 120tpi version. Ask me how I know...










If you're looking for a 2.8-ish tire, this Teravail Coronado looks pretty sweet... https://www.teravail.com/tires/coronado#TR7296


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Minion DHF 29x2.6 are out Jan 2019. I'm running a 29x3 DHF up front which is good. About 1150g so not stupid heavy.


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

fartymarty said:


> Minion DHF 29x2.6 are out Jan 2019. I'm running a 29x3 DHF up front which is good. About 1150g so not stupid heavy.


The good news is that the 29"x2.6" DHF and DHR2 are available now (Worldwide Cyclery, Universal, etc.).

The bad news is that Maxxis seems to have discontinued the 29"x3" DHF and DHR2, both tires that a lot of us loved.

https://www.maxxis.com/media/986531/maxxis-2019-bike-txt-low.pdf


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

jnroyal said:


> The good news is that the 29"x2.6" DHF and DHR2 are available now (Worldwide Cyclery, Universal, etc.).
> 
> The bad news is that Maxxis seems to have discontinued the 29"x3" DHF and DHR2, both tires that a lot of us loved.
> 
> https://www.maxxis.com/media/986531/maxxis-2019-bike-txt-low.pdf


That sucks, no 3" tires of any size listed anymore.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Common Maxxis, I love my 3" Minions. I just put them on so won't need new ones for a while. This is sad news.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Common Maxxis, I love my 3" Minions. I just put them on so won't need new ones for a while. This is sad news.


Agree. Thats too bad they are a ton of tire for sure but peerless in the 29+ world.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

dammit....just when I had settled on a new tire....crap


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

Me too.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

geraldooka said:


> Agree. Thats too bad they are a ton of tire for sure but peerless in the 29+ world.


Bontrager do a 29x3 SE5 which looks really good if you are after an aggressive tyre.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

geraldooka said:


> Agree. Thats too bad they are a ton of tire for sure but peerless in the 29+ world.


I just ordered another front tire. I know it will be 2+ years until I need to replace it, but I can't imagine a better front tire will come along. The rear tire is awesome but overkill if I'm honest. I can handle something a little faster rolling when the time comes.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

I ran 3" DHF/DHF this year. I was generally happy with them, but thinking about getting something that's better in wet conditions next year. Any suggestions? Only full 3" wide tires considered.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

cjbiker said:


> I ran 3" DHF/DHF this year. I was generally happy with them, but thinking about getting something that's better in wet conditions next year. Any suggestions? Only full 3" wide tires considered.


I've had a couple people tell me that the Bonty XR4 is better in wet conditions than the DHF.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

nitrousjunky said:


> I've had a couple people tell me that the Bonty XR4 is better in wet conditions than the DHF.


One of my friends was out with us yesterday on his Krampus with XR4 front, XR2 rear. Trail was covered in wet leaves. He had no issues. Very pleased.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Hey guys, I have a question about BB height on the gen 2 (which I own).

I'd like to try out 2.8 or possibly even 2.6 tires, but the bottom bracket already feels low. Has anyone tried running these sizes?

Could I try shorter cranks? I'm 6'2.5'' tall with a 37.25'' inseam so, all legs. Or what about an eccentric bottom bracket?

There isn't much info out there of people running skinnier tires on the Gen 2 that I can find. 

Thanks so much


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Hey guys, I have a question about BB height on the gen 2 (which I own).
> 
> I'd like to try out 2.8 or possibly even 2.6 tires, but the bottom bracket already feels low. Has anyone tried running these sizes?
> 
> ...


The original Karate Monkey had 3mm more bb drop than the new Krampus has. You'll obviously get more pedal strikes than with plus tires, but it shouldn't be too bad.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Hey guys, I have a question about BB height on the gen 2 (which I own).
> 
> I'd like to try out 2.8 or possibly even 2.6 tires, but the bottom bracket already feels low. Has anyone tried running these sizes?
> 
> ...


Gen 1 - I've been running 29x2.4 (DHR2) with rigid forks and a -2 headset and 175mm cranks and the BB height is about 305mm. I didn't have any real trouble with it.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Hey guys, I have a question about BB height on the gen 2 (which I own).
> 
> I'd like to try out 2.8 or possibly even 2.6 tires, but the bottom bracket already feels low. Has anyone tried running these sizes?
> 
> ...


Although it seems some people are doing it, I wouldn't personally go smaller than 2.8's. The Krampus has a LOT of BB drop. I also don't like pedal strikes and won't own any bike with too low of a BB. The tall 3" tires are the only thing keeping the crank/pedal clearance acceptable on this bike.

What rims are you using? If you have the stock 50mm rims you're not going to want to put a 2.6 tire on there. 2.6 tires are not much bigger than a typical 2.4. You'll expose too much sidewall and square off the tire profile. Not optimal.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Although it seems some people are doing it, I wouldn't personally go smaller than 2.8's. The Krampus has a LOT of BB drop. I also don't like pedal strikes and won't own any bike with too low of a BB. The tall 3" tires are the only thing keeping the crank/pedal clearance acceptable on this bike.
> 
> What rims are you using? If you have the stock 50mm rims you're not going to want to put a 2.6 tire on there. 2.6 tires are not much bigger than a typical 2.4. You'll expose too much sidewall and square off the tire profile. Not optimal.


Stock rims, yes. Crazy thing is I just noticed on Surly's Q/A they say you'dbe fine on a 2.5 though I think that would be pushing it.

I get enough pedal strikes as it is riding things that are not flow trail. I'd like to run a 2.8 though. Any tips on reducing strikes or thoughts on shorter cranks/ eccentric BB's?trouble is I'm all legs so I don't know if shorter cranks would feel weird.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

I'm 6'3" with 35" inseam. I use 180mm cranks (personal preference). 

You could swap out the cranks for 170mm cheap enough, if you hate it you can always go back. Given that you have long ass legs I don't know how you would feel about it? 

What are you trying to accomplish? What is your goal with the smaller tires?


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

*OneSpeed* said:


> What are you trying to accomplish? What is your goal with the smaller tires?


That's a good question. I think more than anything I'm just looking to make the bike a touch more nimble and light. I did a 50 mile race, carried way to much crap and about died it was so heavy (seriously though, I carried way too much crap. first race.)

But I like to hop around a lot. I love the bike, it feels like a big BMX the way it rips around. I guess there are just times I want it to feel not quite so big. I also just really like knowing what my options are. Does that make sense?


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## Johnny Rhubarb (Jun 3, 2016)

I'm sorry as I know this doesn't help your case, but my gen 2 Krampus with 3" Minions feels way more agile than my previous 2014 Karate Monkey, even when it had 'lighter' tires. I reckon the main part is the geometry. I never did any race on either though.

Love the 'BMX on steroids' feel too...

cheers


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Disclaimer: I do not own and have never ridden a Krampus. But I've ridden a bunch of different plus tires and bikes over the years.

My guess is going to a 2.8 would be hardly noticeable. The Terenne McFly is a very good tire in that size. If you want to go smaller and try 2.6, I'm guessing you will not like the pedal strikes since you are already noticing them. You could try 5mm shorter cranks, after a couple of rides you won't even notice they are shorter(until you get back on the bike with longer cranks!)

I'm not familiar with what kind of BB the Krampus uses, so can't comment on an EBB. If it's PF30, an EBB would be an option. If it's BSA threaded, I think there's only 2 options, both expensive and finicky, not worth it IMHO.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Yeah, it's a BSA BB which means the only two options for an EBB that come to mind are Trick Stuff and Phil.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

DaddyFatStax said:


> That's a good question. I think more than anything I'm just looking to make the bike a touch more nimble and light. I did a 50 mile race, carried way to much crap and about died it was so heavy (seriously though, I carried way too much crap. first race.)
> 
> But I like to hop around a lot. I love the bike, it feels like a big BMX the way it rips around. I guess there are just times I want it to feel not quite so big. I also just really like knowing what my options are. Does that make sense?


Well, I hear ya, that's what I figured (minus the racing part). While the Krampus is awesome, and currently my favorite thing to ride, It's not what most people would consider an ideal race bike.

Is a second wheelset an option? A race day wheelset (35-40mm inner) with some faster rolling 2.6-2.8's would help. Personally I'd never give up my 3.0's on 50mm rims, but I have other bikes for race day. My Krampus is all about fun factor and smiles per mile.

Racing is it's own conversation. if you're only going to do a couple per year I'd just plan/prepare better and deal with it. It's not worth changing your daily setup (assuming you like it) for 2-4 races per year. If you're interested in racing more seriously a second bike may be in order.


----------



## Fatbikefan (Oct 12, 2017)

*Lightening up Krampus*



DaddyFatStax said:


> That's a good question. I think more than anything I'm just looking to make the bike a touch more nimble and light. I did a 50 mile race, carried way to much crap and about died it was so heavy (seriously though, I carried way too much crap. first race.)
> 
> But I like to hop around a lot. I love the bike, it feels like a big BMX the way it rips around. I guess there are just times I want it to feel not quite so big. I also just really like knowing what my options are. Does that make sense?


In order to lighten my Krampus, I replaced stock rims w Stans Barrons I35 rims, Bitex hubs & Sapin spokes. I also ran Terrene McFlys, but as others have said I missed the 3.0, so I am very happy w Innova Pro Transformers 3.0 only about 4 oz. heavier than McFlys. This combo has made a big weight difference for me!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Fatbikefan said:


> In order to lighten my Krampus, I replaced stock rims w Stans Barrons I35 rims, Bitex hubs & Sapin spokes. I also ran Terrene McFlys, but as others have said I missed the 3.0, so I am very happy w Innova Pro Transformers 3.0 only about 4 oz. heavier than McFlys. This combo has made a big weight difference for me!


what is the terrain like where you ride? am looking for tires to use here in the winter where my trail conditions are mostly wet, rocky, rooty, and riding over a bed of downed leaves.(Ohio and Michigan) I had not heard of the transformers till this thread, but would like to try them if they are good in that kind of terrain.

Would they work on the Rabbit Holes as well?

I was gonna get thew Maxxis Minions, but have heard that they are not making those any more(?)

Also, not looking to lose weight specifically...more for a good tire for those conditions...


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

sXeXBMXer said:


> *I was gonna get thew Maxxis Minions, but have heard that they are not making those any more(?)
> *
> Also, not looking to lose weight specifically...more for a good tire for those conditions...


They're still available for now, but they're not in the 2019 product catalog. I would highly recommend the DHF. The DHR is killer too, but slightly overkill for me. Not to the point that I'm ready to swap it out, it's mostly slow when coasting on pavement. Once you hit dirt I don't really notice it.

Best 29+ tires I've ridden. Get em while you can!


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

*OneSpeed* said:


> If you're interested in racing more seriously a second bike may be in order.


 I freakin' wish lol. This is my one and only mountain bike for years to come. I do have a cyclocross bike as well that gets well abused. Got me a baby, a house, a shitty income, and a stay-at-home wife.

Part of the fun, however, is seeing how frugally I can enjoy this expensive ass hobby. It's part of why I sold my flashy full-sus 29er for this bike. No regrets at all. I don't race to win or anything like that, just to stay in shape. A light bike is a fun bike though


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Fatbikefan said:


> In order to lighten my Krampus, I replaced stock rims w Stans Barrons I35 rims, Bitex hubs & Sapin spokes. I also ran Terrene McFlys, but as others have said I missed the 3.0, so I am very happy w Innova Pro Transformers 3.0 only about 4 oz. heavier than McFlys. This combo has made a big weight difference for me!


if you don't mind me asking, how much did those wheels run you? I'm still running the stock Dirt Wizards. Are the wizards pretty heavy when compared to other 3.0 tires? I've been happy with their overall performance here in the southeast, but I'm no expert. It's about time to replace the rear though as I do a good bit of pavement riding as well (because this bike is a wheelie machine)


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

*OneSpeed* said:


> They're still available for now, but they're not in the 2019 product catalog. I would highly recommend the DHF. The DHR is killer too, but slightly overkill for me. Not to the point that I'm ready to swap it out, it's mostly slow when coasting on pavement. Once you hit dirt I don't really notice it.
> 
> Best 29+ tires I've ridden. Get em while you can!


yeah...i am gonna try to get mine before they run out, but am looking at other options as well. I tend to make tires last a long time though . knock on wood


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## bryanmac (Jul 18, 2012)

Tire measurements vary. My 29 x 3 wtb rangers measure a little under 2.8" and 29 x 2.6 vittoria mezcals measure near 2.7". I also know a few people that ran 27.5 x 3 on Krampus with no problem that are a tad smaller outside diameter than a 29 x 2.35. Moral of the story, I think you will be just fine...


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## Johnny Rhubarb (Jun 3, 2016)

sXeXBMXer said:


> am looking for tires to use here in the winter where my trail conditions are mostly wet, rocky, rooty, and riding over a bed of downed leaves.(Ohio and Michigan)
> 
> Also, not looking to lose weight specifically...more for a good tire for those conditions...


sounds like the conditions we have in the middle of Germany in winter; I do love my 3" Minion DHR's front and back for those. I ran a 29 x 2.5 DHF in the front of my Karate Monkey, but it clogged a bit, that's why I chose to run the DHR in the front too.

They might be overkill, but therefore even more fitting to the Krampus.

cheers!


----------



## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

sXeXBMXer said:


> what is the terrain like where you ride? am looking for tires to use here in the winter where my trail conditions are mostly wet, rocky, rooty, and riding over a bed of downed leaves.(Ohio and Michigan) I had not heard of the transformers till this thread, but would like to try them if they are good in that kind of terrain.
> 
> Would they work on the Rabbit Holes as well?
> 
> ...


I'm in Michigan...loving my Bontrager XR4...


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Are the wizards pretty heavy when compared to other 3.0 tires? I've been happy with their overall performance here in the southeast, but I'm no expert. It's about time to replace the rear though as I do a good bit of pavement riding as well (because this bike is a wheelie machine)


Yes. Assuming you have the 60 tpi DWs, they weigh between 1300-1400 grams per tire. And they're undersized for a 3.0. Switching to chupacabras would give you better volume and save almost 2 lbs of rotational weight. Chupas work surprisingly well in chunky/techy terrain, and are amazingly durable.

That said, for the most fun I suggest 29x3.25! Crux, Bulldozer, etc. I run 'em on i40 rims and they rock. Traction, roll-over and plushness for days.


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## Fatbikefan (Oct 12, 2017)

sXeXBMXer said:


> what is the terrain like where you ride? am looking for tires to use here in the winter where my trail conditions are mostly wet, rocky, rooty, and riding over a bed of downed leaves.(Ohio and Michigan) I had not heard of the transformers till this thread, but would like to try them if they are good in that kind of terrain.
> 
> Would they work on the Rabbit Holes as well?
> 
> ...


Sorry for late reply: I have tried at least 5 different tires on fatbike, and 4 on my Krampus, simply pointing out to let you know I've tried a bunch. Riding in Northern Illinois an even mix of single track, service road,crushed limestone & a little black top. We get our share of mud, slick roots, skim ice. Long story... stock Dirt Wizards 60tpi too heavy for me, Mcfly's Nice & light but a bit narrow & short lugs a bit slippery, Innova Pro Transformers to me are great all around light, decent lugs & grip. But since going to lighter Stans Barrons I35 rims I'm Loving my 3.25 Duro Crux for late fall/winter/early spring for Krampus. For only one set, I would choose the Innova Pro Transformers, but I do enjoy the float cushion of the Duro crux.


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## Fatbikefan (Oct 12, 2017)

Sorry for late reply, I paid a bit under $500 for above mentioned wheel set. The wheel set & going to the Innova Pro Transformers from the stock Alex 40 rims & 60TPI Dirt Wizards made a significant rotational weight difference! No, I don’t get paid for saying any of this! All my own cash, but made Krampus quicker lighter more nimble, If a Krampus could be nimble!


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## Dimitry (Dec 20, 2018)

Nextie carbon rims on Chris kings. (Chronicle tyres are a pain to mount or take off these rims, but ride so well)
Whisky carbon MTN 29er forks (the older version(  45mm   rake, 480 AtoC, 680g) has smaller rake than surly steel one (47mm rake, 483 AtoC, 1180g) and the new Whisky one (51mm rake, 480 AtoC, 730g) has bigger rake. 
Thomson Dropper, or enve for commuting
550mm stem, loads of steerer
11speed XT
CK headset and BB
Stooge Moto bars(how i wish someone'd make bars with the same rise and sweep in carbon(or titanium)).
Hope breaks - look amazing but could do better with performance.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Dimitry said:


> Stooge Moto bars(how i wish someone'd make bars with the same rise and sweep in carbon(or titanium)).


I have SQ Labs 30X carbon bars. 780 wide, 16 degrees of sweep, up to 45mm rise. They ride really nice.

https://www.sq-lab.com/shop/en/Handlebars/MTB/SQlab-Handlebar-3OX-Carbon-16.html


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

So are all of you Krampus owners worried about the loss of Maxxis' 29x3 Minions? Do you think that this trend will follow with other tire companies? 

I have been wondering what this is saying about the 3" size in general....

should I hoard 3" tires this year, or am I just a "Doomsday Worrier"


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

sXeXBMXer said:


> So are all of you Krampus owners worried about the loss of Maxxis' 29x3 Minions? Do you think that this trend will follow with other tire companies?
> 
> I have been wondering what this is saying about the 3" size in general....
> 
> should I hoard 3" tires this year, or am I just a "Doomsday Worrier"


I've never run a minion so I have no opinion about that but I have been happily running a Bontrager Chupacabra, now the XR2 on my rear wheel and a 3.25" Vee Bulldozer on the front. I love this combo. 
I have a couple of friends running the same combo and another running XR2 and XR4 on the front. The Bontrager tires are excellent and they just invested big in the 29x3" size so I'm not too worried.


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

I really wanted a set of Minions this year. But have not been on a bike since February due to two massive concussion s this year. I'm going to have to change my riding style to mostly gravel at least fir the near future. It looks like I will be staying with the Chronicles for now. They just started letting me ride an exercise bike a week ago. Thank God I'm as big as a house . Writing this sitting in the waiting room of PT. I might the Minions that are at LBS just to have them though. In case I can get back to "Riding Hard".

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

NYrr496 said:


> I've never run a minion so I have no opinion about that but I have been happily running a Bontrager Chupacabra, now the XR2 on my rear wheel and a 3.25" Vee Bulldozer on the front. I love this combo.
> I have a couple of friends running the same combo and another running XR2 and XR4 on the front. The Bontrager tires are excellent and they just invested big in the 29x3" size so I'm not too worried.


Yeah...been hearing a lot recently about the XR2's. So that 3.25 works in your front end? Do you still have the original rigid fork? I am looking for better tires for midwest/wet/rocky/rooty/leaf covered trails with some snow....was aiming towards the Minions but....also had been looking at the Duro Crux 3.25's


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

sXeXBMXer said:


> So are all of you Krampus owners worried about the loss of Maxxis' 29x3 Minions? Do you think that this trend will follow with other tire companies?
> 
> I have been wondering what this is saying about the 3" size in general....
> 
> should I hoard 3" tires this year, or am I just a "Doomsday Worrier"


I just put new tires on my bike a couple months ago but when I heard the news I ordered another DHF the next day. I can't imagine a better front tire. The rear I'm more flexible about, I feel like there's a few decent options out there that will work fine. Or maybe I'll buy another DHF and put it on the rear too.

I'm surprised there isn't more interest in 29+. I was sure it would have taken off by now. I think there's some weird stigma, people think it will be heavy or cumbersome, too bad they don't give it a try and learn the truth.

I'm quite sure 29+ isn't going to die, but at least for now it seems it's going to remain a niche product. I keep telling people it's the best wheel/tire size on Earth.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

*OneSpeed* said:


> I just put new tires on my bike a couple months ago but when I heard the news I ordered another DHF the next day. I can't imagine a better front tire. The rear I'm more flexible about, I feel like there's a few decent options out there that will work fine. Or maybe I'll buy another DHF and put it on the rear too.
> 
> I'm surprised there isn't more interest in 29+. I was sure it would have taken off by now. I think there's some weird stigma, people think it will be heavy or cumbersome, too bad they don't give it a try and learn the truth.
> 
> I'm quite sure 29+ isn't going to die, but at least for now it seems it's going to remain a niche product. I keep telling people it's the best wheel/tire size on Earth.


honestly, I would rather it remain a niche in a way...and I also agree that there is a fear of it's dimensions on all levels. I might go this weekend and try to order some Minions as well so i will at least have had the experience....I think that 29+ is more prevalent in the touring/bike packing world...at least it seems that way on those sites/forums


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I think that 29+ is more prevalent in the touring/bike packing world...at least it seems that way on those sites/forums


With magazines and media mostly labeling 29+ as that designation, I think a lot of people don't have a clue just how capable 29+ really is on the trails.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Yeah...been hearing a lot recently about the XR2's. So that 3.25 works in your front end? Do you still have the original rigid fork? I am looking for better tires for midwest/wet/rocky/rooty/leaf covered trails with some snow....was aiming towards the Minions but....also had been looking at the Duro Crux 3.25's


The 3.25" tire fits the stock Krampus fork Beautifully. Somewhere a little earlier in this
thread,(P.43, post 29) I also posted a pic of it trial fitted in the rear. I had to slide the wheel back about halfway or maybe a little more but it fit. I just really like it as a front tire.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

nitrousjunky said:


> With magazines and media mostly labeling 29+ as that designation, I think a lot of people don't have a clue just how capable 29+ really is on the trails.


true...and sort of sad b/c they are missing out I think


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

NYrr496 said:


> The 3.25" tire fits the stock Krampus fork Beautifully. Somewhere a little earlier in this
> thread,(P.43, post 29) I also posted a pic of it trial fitted in the rear. I had to slide the wheel back about halfway or maybe a little more but it fit. I just really like it as a front tire.


oh yeah...I thought that pic was in another thread...I think I would go with a regular 3 in back, but I don't know...that is the fun of trying things out though


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## Johnny Rhubarb (Jun 3, 2016)

sXeXBMXer said:


> So are all of you Krampus owners worried about the loss of Maxxis' 29x3 Minions? Do you think that this trend will follow with other tire companies?
> 
> I have been wondering what this is saying about the 3" size in general....
> 
> should I hoard 3" tires this year, or am I just a "Doomsday Worrier"


Yes, I am. So I called the german Maxxis distributor today, they told me the reason that the 3" tires aren't listed in the US catalogue might well be that the US distributor decided to not order these sizes from the main Maxxis hub in Taiwan.
But apparently Maxxis still continues to produce at least the Minions, although sadly the Chronicle is listed as discontinued, they have only 20 left.


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## Fatbikefan (Oct 12, 2017)

I think I got to similar performance as NYrr496 but with different tires on my 2017 red Krampus: rear Innova Transformer 29x3.0, front Duro Crux 29x3.25 ( on Stans Baron i35 rims). This combo lightens the bike from stock a ton, & improves rotational weight!


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## mürrisch (Jan 24, 2018)

Duro Crux 29×3.25 fit fine on my Krampus. Love this tire!!









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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

mürrisch said:


> Duro Crux 29×3.25 fit fine on my Krampus. Love this tire!!


Nice! It's a great tire. Game changer, actually. Enjoy.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Merry Christmas, ya filthy animals!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I put some Mudhugger fenders on the Krampus to make it better for winter use here in the PNWet. :thumbsup:

https://vikapprovedblog.wordpress.com/2019/01/06/surly-krampus-fenders/

Also congrats on this thread hitting 1M views. That's not nothing!


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Had an opportunity to take some pics with a good camera. Here it is all polished up.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

mürrisch said:


> Duro Crux 29×3.25 fit fine on my Krampus. Love this tire!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks for the pics!!! that might "seal the deal" on me getting those tires! I run right around 17psi at asll times, so hopefully they won't "Squish out"



*OneSpeed* said:


> Had an opportunity to take some pics with a good camera. Here it is all polished up.
> 
> View attachment 1232244
> 
> ...


that is sweet!!!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Had an opportunity to take some pics with a good camera. Here it is all polished up.
> 
> View attachment 1232244


Nice work.


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## mürrisch (Jan 24, 2018)

I run round about 1 bar (15 psi) at this tires. It feels a bit like an air cushion boat, only with a lot more grip ... lol.
But note, a 2x...- boost drive train will produce tire chaine rub! I had to switch to a 1x... boost.









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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

....


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## hirschmj (Sep 10, 2010)

That zip-tie-and-nut ghetto wheel spacer is frigging genius and I'm stealing that immediately.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

There was somebody in the Wednesday threads that was machining some pieces to fit in the dropouts like that. Much more elegant, but I agree that the murrisch method is worthy of copy.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

dbhammercycle said:


> There was somebody in the Wednesday threads that was machining some pieces to fit in the dropouts like that. Much more elegant, but I agree that the murrisch method is worthy of copy.


I bought a set of those, used them for a while. They worked great but don't bother any more.


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## Fatbikefan (Oct 12, 2017)

*Please explain benefit of zip tie & nut*



hirschmj said:


> That zip-tie-and-nut ghetto wheel spacer is frigging genius and I'm stealing that immediately.


Always looking for ways to improve my Krampus ride.... I currently use the "surly tuggnut" on the drive side to stabilize wheel. Please let me know what the zip tie & nut does. (Sorry if obvious, thanks!)


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## mürrisch (Jan 24, 2018)

hirschmj said:


> That zip-tie-and-nut ghetto wheel spacer is frigging genius and I'm stealing that immediately.


That wasn't my idea! I've also just stolen it from the Wednesday thread, namely from Johnny Chicken Bones. I use M6 nuts ISO 4032, but they are a bit too thick, so they have to be sanded down a bit. Or you can use flat nuts ISO 4035, or whatever else is available on the other side of the Atlantic.

It works very well and is much cheaper than the Surly solutions.

Gesendet von meinem SM-A320FL mit Tapatalk


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

We had a rare bit of snow here on the coast so I made sure to get the Krampus out and skid around a bit on the way to the beer store and back.


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## Sir Surly (Aug 7, 2012)

vikb said:


> We had a rare bit of snow here on the coast so I made sure to get the Krampus out and skid around a bit on the way to the beer store and back.


Nice work ? that's a cool rear fender ! what brand is it ?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Sir Surly said:


> Nice work ? that's a cool rear fender ! what brand is it ?


MudHugger. I use them on several bikes. Awesome product.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

dbhammercycle said:


> There was somebody in the Wednesday threads that was machining some pieces to fit in the dropouts like that. Much more elegant, but I agree that the murrisch method is worthy of copy.


Surly Monkey Nuts??? you could machine / bodge them to the size you need.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

vikb said:


> MudHugger. I use them on several bikes. Awesome product.


I can vouch for the front Mudhugger if you can get it to work with your forks.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Has anyone run a 5 or 6 speed cassette on their Krampus? I am currently running mine as single speed which is good but am thinking of making a 5 speed wide(ish) range cassette.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Here's a novel question. Has anyone tried to fit a "super boost" hub/wheel into the gnot boost dropouts?

wondering if they can safely stretch that far.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

fartymarty said:


> Has anyone run a 5 or 6 speed cassette on their Krampus? I am currently running mine as single speed which is good but am thinking of making a 5 speed wide(ish) range cassette.


I remember some with Hope SS/Trials hubs cutting down or piecing together a 5 spd cassette from a 9, but why would you do that with a standard 9,10,11 freehub? I guess you could remove some cogs and use spacers to save a little weight. Would it be worth it is the question. Would you use a friction thumb shifter?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Here's a novel question. Has anyone tried to fit a "super boost" hub/wheel into the gnot boost dropouts?
> 
> wondering if they can safely stretch that far.


Gnot Boost is 145, Super Boost is 157. Not going to happen.

You could try cold setting the frame, but you would have to re-angle the dropouts too. Just not a good idea.

You don't need super boost, just stick with the 148 rear.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Not going to happen.
> .


I think what you mean to say is "gnot going to happen".....eh?

but yes I know I don't NEED it, that's almost never the case. I really don't even want it either but was just curious if it could be done.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

Johnny Rhubarb said:


> Thanks folks! Handlebars are the Oddmone Bars from Oddity Cycles
> 
> View attachment 1223468
> 
> ...


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

But if I can sell this 26" BMX bike I will be looking to pick another Krampus:
View attachment 1241131
[/QUOTE]

What frame is that?

Looks like a GJS from the 80's.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

racefit said:


> But if I can sell this 26" BMX bike I will be looking to pick another Krampus:
> View attachment 1241131


What frame is that?

Looks like a GJS from the 80's.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

It is a Bassett GJS A-Frame tribute bike. Bassett did a run of 25 26" and 25 29" frame and forks.


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## OldHouseMan (Dec 7, 2006)

On a new Krampus, what is the max tire size with the axle all the way forward in the dropout?


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

OldHouseMan said:


> On a new Krampus, what is the max tire size with the axle all the way forward in the dropout?


I'm pretty much maxed out with a Maxxis DHR in 29x3" on an Arc 45 rim with the axle fully forward.


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## OldHouseMan (Dec 7, 2006)

cjbiker said:


> I'm pretty much maxed out with a Maxxis DHR in 29x3" on an Arc 45 rim with the axle fully forward.


Cool, thanks. I wasn't sure if the 3.0 spec Surly lists was in the forward position or not.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Gonna revive this thread once more.

How much party can a Krampus have? That is to say, how "all-mountain" or "hardcore" can one make a gen2 by adding hoards of fork travel, without totally mucking up the ride?

My town is about to get it's first ever DH park (we have lots of riding, but all xc and no reason for me to buy suspension at all). I'd like to keep the Krampus as my only bike, but also want to be able to send it, which I was comfortable with doing in my full suspension days.

Is 140mm enough? Is it still pedal-able? Or should I just suck it up and start saving for a bro bike?


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

...


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

Tried to send a pic of my no suspension, Krampus on a lift up the mountain, but it wouldn't let me. After three broken ribs. A broken finger and a split helmet, I would suggest some sort of suspension.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Gonna revive this thread once more.
> 
> How much party can a Krampus have? That is to say, how "all-mountain" or "hardcore" can one make a gen2 by adding hoards of fork travel, without totally mucking up the ride?
> 
> ...


The guys at my LBS are always taking trips to enduro and downhill places. I always say I'll go when I get another FS. They told me just put a Pike on my Krampus and have at it. Not all out downhill but Enduro stuff, why not?


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

My Krampus is rigid, but if you review posts around here it seems 120mm is the limit and even then people are mentioning some flop in the front end. 

I love my Krampus but don’t think it’s the right tool for that job. 


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

I've got a 120 Mattoc on mine with a 170mm dropper and 3" Minion tires f/r. It's pretty capable, and forgiving with the big tires, loads of grip, super fun and versatile, and capable of being your only bike.

But it's still a hardtail.

My XL is pretty raked out with a 120. It now has a pretty long wheelbase and is slightly less snappy than my old rigid Krampus. I like it as is, but I wouldn't want a longer fork on there personally.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Gonna revive this thread once more.
> 
> How much party can a Krampus have? That is to say, how "all-mountain" or "hardcore" can one make a gen2 by adding hoards of fork travel, without totally mucking up the ride?
> 
> ...


140mm Pike with an angleset is the way to go. The angle set will help keep the BB and bars at a similar height with then increase in fork length. I use a Works Components -2 with a 120mm Pike but have run it at 140mm on a Legacy Krampus. It was great with 140 on the way down but slackened the STA too much for climbing so I settled on 120mm and a 10mm rise bar.

IMO you wouldn't want to go much more that 140mm on a HT anyway as the HA changes too much as you go through the travel.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

My current build.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

I ran my Krampus (pic at post #4508) with a 140mm Pike. Slight wander when climbing, great on rolling single track and perfect for chunky steep downhills...


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

Newer Krampus feels awesome with a 120mm fork on it. Fully capable on rough trails and I still have no desire for a full suspension bike. 120 feels about right on climbing and gives a slightly more slack feel and just a small bump in pedal clearance. Not sure I'd want to go more than this though especially as most of my local rides have a fair share of forest road climbs.

I have a Revelation on it currently and I like the beefier 35mm stanchions. My previous hardtail was a 27.5+ with a 32mm fork and I can for sure notice less flex on the 29+ with a bigger fork.

View attachment 1243088


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## B-RAY (Jul 15, 2004)

fartymarty said:


> View attachment 1243079
> 
> 
> My current build.


Ur ride is dope!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

B-RAY said:


> Ur ride is dope!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agree! Long travel, 1st gen SS Krampus for the win! And without a chain tug on the drive side. That work pretty well for you? Even though your chain is a tad loose


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Set my new krampus up for bike packing. Looking for a rear rack. Recommendations? Lighter and smaller would be preferred. I'ts going to see light duty.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Thanks for all of the suspension fork insight. Very helpful as always. I've got my eye on the Revelation. Does it clear a 3.0 tire? Asking more out of curiosity as I currently run the wee Mcfly 2.8's which feel tiny compared to the stock Wizards, but I love them and don't plan on changing any time soon.

A higher bb would be welcome though cause holy crap I feel like a lowrider with 175mm cranks.


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Thanks for all of the suspension fork insight. Very helpful as always. I've got my eye on the Revelation. Does it clear a 3.0 tire? Asking more out of curiosity as I currently run the wee Mcfly 2.8's which feel tiny compared to the stock Wizards, but I love them and don't plan on changing any time soon.
> 
> A higher bb would be welcome though cause holy crap I feel like a lowrider with 175mm cranks.


Revelation clears the stock Dirt Wizards and i40 rims no problem. I noticed the pedal strikes with this tire set up even on the stock build with the rigid fork. And that's good to know with the Mcflys - I've been eying those up to lighten up the wheels slightly but don't want to be smashing rocks! Might have to stick with 3.0 tires.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

loren90 said:


> Revelation clears the stock Dirt Wizards and i40 rims no problem. I noticed the pedal strikes with this tire set up even on the stock build with the rigid fork. And that's good to know with the Mcflys - I've been eying those up to lighten up the wheels slightly but don't want to be smashing rocks! Might have to stick with 3.0 tires.


If you want to lighten tires and stay 3.0, check out the Bonty XR2. Way more volume than a DW (which is barely 2.8), and almost a full pound lighter per tire (than a 60 tpi DW). Yes, not as knobby, but killer contact patch.

If you want to stay in the 2.8 range try Terevail Coronados. The "durable" variety is lighter and more volume than a DW 3.0. And it's super durable!

And last but not least, if pedal strikes bum you out, try some 170mm cranks. I was nervous about moving from the 175s (and longer) I'd run for decades, but haven't looked back.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

loren90 said:


> Revelation clears the stock Dirt Wizards and i40 rims no problem. I noticed the pedal strikes with this tire set up even on the stock build with the rigid fork. And that's good to know with the Mcflys - I've been eying those up to lighten up the wheels slightly but don't want to be smashing rocks! Might have to stick with 3.0 tires.


I do notice more pedal strikes with the Mcflys but I feel the tradeoff is worth it since theyre so much lighter. But! This makes me wonder if I'd actually like a Karaty Monkey more, with the same tires. All else being equal, I'm trying to decide if it would suit me better since I can't really run shorter cranks with my 38'' inseam.


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## cachaulo (Sep 14, 2009)

cjbiker said:


> I'm pretty much maxed out with a Maxxis DHR in 29x3" on an Arc 45 rim with the axle fully forward.


I halfway through building up my krampus with the same rims and a DHF 3.0 in the rear, it is just just touching or very close on the drive side in the forward axle position...I have never had a bike with horizontal dropouts, what do I need to do if I have to space it back a bit? (Does the derailleur work and disc brakes still line up?)

Wondering if the DHF is wider profile than the DHR...hope I can get away without any rubbing.

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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

cachaulo said:


> I halfway through building up my krampus with the same rims and a DHF 3.0 in the rear, it is just just touching or very close on the drive side in the forward axle position...I have never had a bike with horizontal dropouts, what do I need to do if I have to space it back a bit? (Does the derailleur work and disc brakes still line up?)
> 
> Wondering if the DHF is wider profile than the DHR...hope I can get away without any rubbing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It was very close on one side, I dished the wheel over a hair. Surly makes "Monkey Nuts" that space the wheel back. You want the V3 version. Adjust brake and derailleur as normal with the axle in the new position.


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## cachaulo (Sep 14, 2009)

cjbiker said:


> It was very close on one side, I dished the wheel over a hair. Surly makes "Monkey Nuts" that space the wheel back. You want the V3 version. Adjust brake and derailleur as normal with the axle in the new position.


Nice, I dished the wheel this morning so it doesn't rub. I also realized the monkey nuts that came with the frame were V2 which is wrong for this frame, I'll see if I can get this to work in the forward position before I buy the V3 version if needed.

Thanks for the help!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## memmot (Aug 13, 2010)

fartymarty said:


> View attachment 1243079
> 
> 
> My current build.


Any feedback on the Works angleset? I'm thinking about the -1.5* for my gen 1 Krampus, but with a rigid fork still. I *think* the overall geo changes will be what I want- slacker front end (like my ICT), longer front center, slightly lower BB, steeper seat tube angle. The only negative might be lower bar height, but I have some steerer spacers to play with. I already have a tall headset top cap, so my stack height won't change.


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

memmot said:


> Any feedback on the Works angleset? I'm thinking about the -1.5* for my gen 1 Krampus, but with a rigid fork still. I *think* the overall geo changes will be what I want- slacker front end (like my ICT), longer front center, slightly lower BB, steeper seat tube angle. The only negative might be lower bar height, but I have some steerer spacers to play with. I already have a tall headset top cap, so my stack height won't change.


I've got a couple of them and really like them. I only notice the change in head angle, the other changes are so small they are imperceptible, to me at least. The only downside with them is they can take a while to get, especially if they're not in stock when you need them. And they're a little pricey, though still cheaper than a Cane Creek Angleset.


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## Asadh8su (Mar 8, 2019)

*New build*

This will be my second Krampus 
but first one i am building 
More Pics to come 
post more on insta if you want to see 
@asadh8su

Medium Frame 
Stans no tubes sentry wheelset 
Maxxis Chronicles 29x3 
Thomson Stem & bars 
Full shimano SLX GROUP & brakes 
Brand X dropper post 
Vans ODS grips

Pending
Headset....

Down the road will upgrade to SALSA Firecrest carbon fork


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## gonzo1034 (Nov 28, 2005)

You should have one space on the drivers side. I used to run a 34T oval and it cleared. A 34T oval is a 36T at its highest point.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

gonzo1034 said:


> You should have one space on the drivers side. I used to run a 34T oval and it cleared. A 34T oval is a 36T at its highest point.


On a gen 1 or gen 2 Krampus?


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## memmot (Aug 13, 2010)

jnroyal said:


> I've got a couple of them and really like them. I only notice the change in head angle, the other changes are so small they are imperceptible, to me at least. The only downside with them is they can take a while to get, especially if they're not in stock when you need them. And they're a little pricey, though still cheaper than a Cane Creek Angleset.


Good feedback, thanks. Out of curiosity, are you using rigid or suspension forks? Doesn't really matter, just a data point.


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## Johnny Rhubarb (Jun 3, 2016)

*Coaster Brake Krampus*


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## cachaulo (Sep 14, 2009)

Built up my first 29+ bike, GX drivetrain, XT brakes, PNW dropper, ARC 45 rims with Minion DHFs front and rear. The 3.0 width in the rear is really tight even after dishing the wheel a bit, chain length is just between sizes...currently running the extra link but it's a bit slack in the lowest gear, probably better than fully stretched in the highest gear right? Kids are digging the Mac ride so far. Looking forward to hitting some dirt!


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## jnroyal (Sep 25, 2008)

memmot said:


> Good feedback, thanks. Out of curiosity, are you using rigid or suspension forks? Doesn't really matter, just a data point.


Suspension forks, one on a hardtail the other on a full-suspension.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Just want to add some info for those wondering about chainring clearance on the new gen Kramp.

I just mounted a 32t absolute black round (not oval) on stock cranks and have plenty of clearance


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## felipespinoz (Apr 6, 2017)

cjbiker said:


> I'm pretty much maxed out with a Maxxis DHR in 29x3" on an Arc 45 rim with the axle fully forward.


And what is the chainstays length in this position? Web state 435 mm but where?

Enviado desde mi MotoG3 mediante Tapatalk


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

felipespinoz said:


> And what is the chainstays length in this position? Web state 435 mm but where?


Surly geo chart CS lengths are in the shortest position where there are options..


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## Asadh8su (Mar 8, 2019)

*the bike lives*



Asadh8su said:


> This will be my second Krampus
> but first one i am building
> More Pics to come
> post more on insta if you want to see
> ...


it lives


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## Mako74 (Feb 13, 2012)

Hi all! Glad to find this thread!

I've had my green Krampus since 2013. It has gone from Alfine 11 to GX 1x11 and now I'd like to add suspension fork to it. I've been trying to find out the definitive answer to a couple of questions in my head, but I'm still not sure. Could you guys help as I bet these are easy ones and I bet the answers are just a link click away - I just can't find them.

My questions are:
1) what Krampus headtube compatible 120-140 mm travel forks can take Hope Pro2 Evo Qr 100mm + rabbit hole + 3" chronicle?
2) is it possible to use a a tapered fork with some magical headset kit?
3) should I fit an negative angleset to compensate the change in geometry? Any experiences on these?

Many thanks in advance and sorry for sucking in the search forum -tool..


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

1. I don't know if there's a QR fork available that will fit a 3" tire on a 50mm rim? You may be able to swap your Hope end caps so you can use a modern 15mm TA fork though which will open up many more options. 
2. Yes, you can easily use a tapered fork with a 44mm headtube. Possibly as simple as a new crown race in the existing headset. (depending on what's in there now)
3. That frame is 100mm suspension corrected, if you plan to go much beyond 120mm it would probably be a good idea to add an angleset. Cane Creek or Works are the two most common.


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## Mako74 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks *OneSpeed*!

I can easily convert the Hope 9mm QR to a 12/15/20mm thru-axle so that's good. So with this in mind, what 3" compatible forks there are? I'd prefer Rockshox or Fox as Manitou service is not readily available in my location.

Regarding the straight 1 1/8" to tapered 1.5" head set - what are people using here with their Mk I Krampus'?

Cheers!



*OneSpeed* said:


> 1. I don't know if there's a QR fork available that will fit a 3" tire on a 50mm rim? You may be able to swap your Hope end caps so you can use a modern 15mm TA fork though which will open up many more options.
> 2. Yes, you can easily use a tapered fork with a 44mm headtube. Possibly as simple as a new crown race in the existing headset. (depending on what's in there now)
> 3. That frame is 100mm suspension corrected, if you plan to go much beyond 120mm it would probably be a good idea to add an angleset. Cane Creek or Works are the two most common.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Mako74 said:


> Thanks *OneSpeed*!
> 
> I can easily convert the Hope 9mm QR to a 12/15/20mm thru-axle so that's good. So with this in mind, what 3" compatible forks there are? I'd prefer Rockshox or Fox as Manitou service is not readily available in my location.
> 
> ...


If you have a Hope hub, Wolftooth makes an adapter that changes 100mm to Boost. I did it with mine when I first built the bike. Now I have a proper Boost wheelset on it. 
I do not currently have a suspension fork on my Krampus but I did try one with a Rockshox Pike on it and it was nothing short of spectacular. 
I'm saving my money for one.


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## Mako74 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks NYrr496 for the Wolftooth tip - just what I needed!

Was it a Pike 29+? And do you recall which tyre?

EDIT: Would this be an alternative



NYrr496 said:


> If you have a Hope hub, Wolftooth makes an adapter that changes 100mm to Boost. I did it with mine when I first built the bike. Now I have a proper Boost wheelset on it.
> I do not currently have a suspension fork on my Krampus but I did try one with a Rockshox Pike on it and it was nothing short of spectacular.
> I'm saving my money for one.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Mako74 said:


> Thanks NYrr496 for the Wolftooth tip - just what I needed!
> 
> Was it a Pike 29+? And do you recall which tyre?
> 
> EDIT: Would this be an alternative


It was a Pike 29+ with a Bontrager Chupacabra, now an XR2. I run a 3.25" Vee Bulldozer on mine and Mikesee says it fits.

I don't think the Reba has the clearance. Pike and Yari 29+ and also Manitou Magnum(?) but I never rode one of those.


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## Mako74 (Feb 13, 2012)

Hmmm... what about Revelation?


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## Frs1661 (Jun 9, 2008)

Mako74 said:


> Hmmm... what about Revelation?


I doubt a revelation will take 29+ but maybe someone knows better.

If you're trying to economize, look at the Rockshox Yari 29+ and Manitou Mattoc Comp 29+. Both are good values for what you get. I ride a previous version of the Mattoc comp on my Stache and I've been happy with it.

If those are too expensive, look into the Manitou Machete Comp. Trek specs these on their bottom of the line Stache, and lightly used and new-take-off forks show up on pinkbike regularly for <$300. This fork has 32 mm stanchions, so will be much more flexy than the other options.


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## Mako74 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks! Would this one work? Pretty good discount.

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/manitou-mattoc-27.5-29-120-tapered-sl-boost-801392


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Mako74 said:


> Thanks! Would this one work? Pretty good discount.
> 
> https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/manitou-mattoc-27.5-29-120-tapered-sl-boost-801392


No, that's a 27.5+ or regular 29" fork. You need one that fits 29+ tires.


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## Sandman29 (Jan 22, 2009)

Mako74,

Question 1.) Get new end caps for the Hope Pro2 to convert to Thru-axel. This will still be 100mm, but then you can get a a spacer kit on Amazon or through Problem Solvers that will come with a 5mm spacer for each side and a spacer to be used to match the disc to the caliber on the 110mm wide fork. Now this will bring your 100mm hub to meet the specs of a 110mm TA fork. 

NOTE: Problem Solvers is a company owned by QBP, the same people who own Surly. Problem Solvers makes a bunch of bike gizmos that solves problems. I actually used a spacer kit that I found on Amazon.


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## Sandman29 (Jan 22, 2009)

Mako74,

2.) You might not need a whole new head set. Might just need a new "race crown". Race crown is a ring that goes on the bottom of the steer tube. Check with you local bike shop, show be only about $15 dollars. From Question 1. The Hope Pro2 TA kit might be about $35 dollars and the boost spacer kit about $25.

3.) Not needed.


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## Mako74 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks Sandman! I think I'm good now. In order to convert my Krampus to front suspension I need:


Rabbit Hole w/ Hope Pro 2 Evo 100mm QR Hope conversion kit to 15x110 boost + problemsolver spacers for hub and disc

current 1 1/8" CaneCreek Fourty EC44/30 headset bottom and/or RC only needs to replaced for 1.5" tapered compatibility

For a stiff (min. 34mm stanchion) 120-140mm fork that has enough space to clear my Rabbit Hole + Chronicle 3" (76mm wide at the widest) I'm limited to Pike 29+, Yari 29+ or Mattoc 29+ (still unsure about any compatible Foxes out there)
Correct?


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## Frs1661 (Jun 9, 2008)

Some info on Fox and other forks here: https://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/list-fox-forks-fit-29-a-1066732.html

Short version- the Boost 27.5+/29 34 will fit many 29x3, but is tight with DHFs.


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## Mako74 (Feb 13, 2012)

Super! Thanks!



Frs1661 said:


> Some info on Fox and other forks here: https://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/list-fox-forks-fit-29-a-1066732.html
> 
> Short version- the Boost 27.5+/29 34 will fit many 29x3, but is tight with DHFs.


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## Mako74 (Feb 13, 2012)

Anyone fitted the Duro Crux 3.25" or Maxxis DHRII 3.0" on a 50mm Rabbit Hole rim? Would you care sharing the width of the mounted tyre if you have? I'm wondering if my mk1 Krampus would take either of them in the rear. I assume these are the widest tyres available in 29" when mounted on a Rabbit Hole.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Mako74 said:


> Thanks Sandman! I think I'm good now. In order to convert my Krampus to front suspension I need:
> 
> 
> Rabbit Hole w/ Hope Pro 2 Evo 100mm QR Hope conversion kit to 15x110 boost + problemsolver spacers for hub and disc
> ...


https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/manitou-mattoc-pro-plus-forks-boost/rp-prod174898

I have the older version of this fork, the Magnum Pro, on my 2017 Krampus, and am very happy with it. This almost makes me want to buy a spare. You can easily shorten it to 100mm by swapping spacers inside the fork, or even more easily by using the pump trick (search the Manitou Mastodon thread for info on that).


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## Mako74 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks cjbiker!

I've sourced a OEM, 2 times used Fox 34 Float Rhythm 29" 130mm Grip 51 Boost 2017 for less than $200. Looks brand new. This one should accommodate any 29x3"?


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Mako74 said:


> Anyone fitted the Duro Crux 3.25" or Maxxis DHRII 3.0" on a 50mm Rabbit Hole rim? Would you care sharing the width of the mounted tyre if you have? I'm wondering if my mk1 Krampus would take either of them in the rear. I assume these are the widest tyres available in 29" when mounted on a Rabbit Hole.


I've set up Knards, Vee Bulldozers, WTB Rangers and Bontrager XR2's split tubeless on Rabbit Holes. I HATE setting Rabbit Holes up split tubeless. It's very difficult and time consuming. Bulletproof when done but difficult going in. 
Never did Duros.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

NYrr496 said:


> I've set up Knards, Vee Bulldozers, WTB Rangers and Bontrager XR2's split tubeless on Rabbit Holes. I HATE setting Rabbit Holes up split tubeless. It's very difficult and time consuming. Bulletproof when done but difficult going in.
> Never did Duros.


What's the challenge to getting split tube working on Rabbit Holes?

I have a pair I bought a couple years ago with the intention of building KramPug wheels. Well, the Pugsley is gone, but I still have the rims. I keep thinking I should lace them up for a second pair of wheels for my Krampus, but I'm spoiled by how trouble-free the tubeless setup is with RaceFace ARC45 rims.

I guess a better question is, if you had a set of "free" (sunk cost) Rabbit Holes, would you bother building them up, or spend the money on some modern, truly tubeless ready rims?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

I had my Rabbit Holes tubeless with just tape, no split tube


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

cjbiker said:


> What's the challenge to getting split tube working on Rabbit Holes?
> 
> I have a pair I bought a couple years ago with the intention of building KramPug wheels. Well, the Pugsley is gone, but I still have the rims. I keep thinking I should lace them up for a second pair of wheels for my Krampus, but I'm spoiled by how trouble-free the tubeless setup is with RaceFace ARC45 rims.
> 
> I guess a better question is, if you had a set of "free" (sunk cost) Rabbit Holes, would you bother building them up, or spend the money on some modern, truly tubeless ready rims?


For free... Probably. They work perfectly. It's just a hassle getting the tire on over the split tube and the high sides of the rim. Takes me longer than any other wheel. The reason I split tube em is because they're usually for a customer that doesn't want to be bothered dealing with setting them up or taking care of a somewhat questionable tubeless setup. Split tube is set it and forget it.

I really like 40mm Arcs. I have em on my Krampus.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

cjbiker said:


> What's the challenge to getting split tube working on Rabbit Holes?


No idea. I've set up a bunch of 29+ tires on Rabbit Holes with a split tube and it was dead easy. With that bead on rubber seal they just popped into place and have been 100% reliable.

I've got no plans to get rid of my RH rims.


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## Alex.C (May 15, 2010)

I concur, dead easy to do split tube on RH rims, easier than a 'normal' tubeless setup in fact.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Thanks for the responses. I think I'll add building wheels out of these rims to my project list. 

Another question, I stretched a 26" tube onto one of the rims. "Stretch" is a bit of a stretch. It wasn't tight at all. Is that expected? Anyone use a 24" tube?


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

Mako74 said:


> Hmmm... what about Revelation?


Revelation easily fits the stock DW and i40rim combo on my rig...


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

sorry/not sorry for reviving this thread. But I've had a plan rolling around in my head for a while now and was wanting to hear from anyone who's done something similar.

Looking to run tires as narrow as 2.6 (Currently enjoying 2.8 Terrene McFly's), but I already question my low bb height (as previously discussed.

What if I add a fork over 120mm? Maybe 130 or 140, in order to raise the bb a bit. I realize it'll slacken her out, but would it be far too floppy?

Can the Krampus ever be a bit more....all mountain? Doesn't have to be too rowdy but I'm curious about moving on from stock rigid steel fork to something more slack, plush, and precise (skinnier tires).

thoughts?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

DaddyFatStax said:


> sorry/not sorry for reviving this thread. But I've had a plan rolling around in my head for a while now and was wanting to hear from anyone who's done something similar.
> 
> Looking to run tires as narrow as 2.6 (Currently enjoying 2.8 Terrene McFly's), but I already question my low bb height (as previously discussed.
> 
> ...


Just going to a 120mm fork will slacken it out over the rigid fork, and raise your BB. Going to 130 or 140 might be excessive but I've read of one or two people doing it.

For sure, adding a fork and a dropper will make it a more aggressive hardtail, regardless of the tire size. Switching to a more aggressive tire (especially in front) might be good too.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

DaddyFatStax said:


> What if I add a fork over 120mm? Maybe 130 or 140, in order to raise the bb a bit. I realize it'll slacken her out, but would it be far too floppy?
> 
> thoughts?


I put a couple thousand KMs on a OG Krampus with a 130mm Fox 34 fork. There were no show stoppers. I ended up going back to the stock rigid fork, but that was just personal preference and made sense for how I was using the bike.

I ran 29+ tires as I have no interest in skinny tires on that bike.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

memmot said:


> Any feedback on the Works angleset? I'm thinking about the -1.5* for my gen 1 Krampus, but with a rigid fork still. I *think* the overall geo changes will be what I want- slacker front end (like my ICT), longer front center, slightly lower BB, steeper seat tube angle. The only negative might be lower bar height, but I have some steerer spacers to play with. I already have a tall headset top cap, so my stack height won't change.


I'm running a -2 in my Krampus (pictured) now with original rigid forks back on. It does drop the BB quite low (305mm IIRC) and it makes the STA steeper which is an added bonus. I have also run it with 120 and 140mm Pikes and its also great. I wouldnt go back to running a standard HS.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I ran my Pikes at 140 for a while but went back to 120mm as you had to fight too much to keep the front down on steep climbs. It was awesome on the way down tho. I ended up putting Debonair springs in my Pikes which firmed up the mid stroke and stuffed the full of tokens to stop bottom out. It was definitely rowdy for a 120mm HT. Also had 2.6 Bontrager SE5s on which were also really good. I think 2.6 is a good in between size for a HT. They are don't get as squirmy as a bigger tyre when pushed hard yet still give you a little more comfort.


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## big_stoke (Jun 5, 2018)

What is the largest rotor that can be used in the rear of a 2017 or newer Krampus? Spec sheet says 160 rotor for the rear. I would like to run at least 180 back there. If you have run a larger size can you share how you made it fit? Thanks in advance.


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

DaddyFatStax said:


> sorry/not sorry for reviving this thread. But I've had a plan rolling around in my head for a while now and was wanting to hear from anyone who's done something similar.
> 
> Looking to run tires as narrow as 2.6 (Currently enjoying 2.8 Terrene McFly's), but I already question my low bb height (as previously discussed.
> 
> ...


I don't think pedal strikes will be a big issue with 2.6" tires. You'll be running higher pressure than 3.0's and really, BB drop is 65mm. Lots of regular 29ers in that range. But the older 2014-ish Krampus' have a higher BB (60mm drop), so maybe look for one of those.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

big_stoke said:


> What is the largest rotor that can be used in the rear of a 2017 or newer Krampus? Spec sheet says 160 rotor for the rear. I would like to run at least 180 back there. If you have run a larger size can you share how you made it fit? Thanks in advance.


It's funny, I had my red Krampus in the work stand the other day, and noticed for the first time how close the rear disc comes to the chainstay. I'd say there's no way a 180mm disc would fit, but I haven't tried it.


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## Purdue22 (Dec 22, 2016)

Im running a 180mm rotor in the rear. It fits and works.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I was told by the shop that build my Krampus 160 was better for a plus bike, not sure how accurate that was.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

jcd46 said:


> I was told by the shop that build my Krampus 160 was better for a plus bike, not sure how accurate that was.


That makes zero sense.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

vikb said:


> That makes zero sense.


I totally agree, I'm sure they didn't want to splurge on a 180mm.

I'm ok with 160. Same I have on my Unit.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

fartymarty said:


> I ran my Pikes at 140 for a while but went back to 120mm as you had to fight too much to keep the front down on steep climbs. It was awesome on the way down tho. I ended up putting Debonair springs in my Pikes which firmed up the mid stroke and stuffed the full of tokens to stop bottom out. It was definitely rowdy for a 120mm HT. Also had 2.6 Bontrager SE5s on which were also really good. I think 2.6 is a good in between size for a HT. They are don't get as squirmy as a bigger tyre when pushed hard yet still give you a little more comfort.


Thanks for the great info. I realized I kind of asked the same question twice in this thread, oops. But I did get more info the second time around, ha!

So are you essentially saying that with 2.6" tires, the bb height is acceptable due to the increased height from the 120mm fork? with the stock fork I do think it would be too low for my liking, but I would love to try 2.6.

That's really the root of my (redundant) question. Thanks all!


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## mountaindude (Jun 27, 2017)

jcd46 said:


> I totally agree, I'm sure they didn't want to splurge on a 180mm.
> 
> I'm ok with 160. Same I have on my Unit.


I have 180 front and rear. According to Surly's site, the max rotor size is 203mm front and rear.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Yeah 2.6 with 120 forks work fine. I'm currently on 2.4 with rigid forks and BB is still fine for where I ride. Am going back to the 2.6 tho for a little extra cush.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Is / has anyone used a Surly Sunrise bar on their Krampus? They do look a little heavy tho but the width and backsweep look good.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

fartymarty said:


> Is / has anyone used a Surly Sunrise bar on their Krampus? They do look a little heavy tho but the width and backsweep look good.


I'm friends with Racefit on here. He has Sunrise bars on his ss Krampus. I'll try and get him to post a pic. He likes em a lot.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Found one of his bike.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

NYrr496 said:


> View attachment 1255817
> 
> 
> Found one of his bike.


that might be an experiment for me as well this summer....


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

fartymarty said:


> Is / has anyone used a Surly Sunrise bar on their Krampus? They do look a little heavy tho but the width and backsweep look good.












I've got the Stooge Cycles Moto bar on one of my bikes and like it a lot. Wide, nice rise and backsweep. They can be a bit hard to come by, but another batch is due in July. I'll probably grab another set.

Moto bar | Stooge Cycles

They've also got a Junker bar [sort of similar to the Surly Sunrise bar] that is due this summer: Stooge Junker bar 70mm rise | Stooge Cycles

I've got a couple of the SQ Labs bars - 12 deg and 16 deg backsweep to try, but haven't mounted them up yet.

https://www.sq-lab.com/en/products/handlebars/


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## Johnny Rhubarb (Jun 3, 2016)

I run an Oddmone Bar which is wider and not as tall as the Sunrise and i wanted a little more backsweep (roughly 20 degrees). I love this setup, totally enhances the 'big kid bmx' thing. You might want to get a frontload bmx stem so that the front is not too high. all personal preferences of course.

cheers!


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## 29ger (Jan 1, 2011)

I haven't, but this guy has:

https://fat-bike.com/2019/06/surly-sunrise-bar/


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

jcd46 said:


> I was told by the shop that build my Krampus 160 was better for a plus bike, not sure how accurate that was.


I agree with @vikb - that is ridiculous. I tried running a 2.5" on a Salsa Big Mama once (it actually measured 2.7") and the 160 rotor was really struggling! 180 for sure with a +sized tire if not a 200 depending on how you ride and if the frame will accept that size.


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

Cool to see 2 krampus(es?) here! https://bikepacking.com/bikes/tour-divide-rigs-2019/

Interesting choice with 2.4 or 2.6 tires on the newer models. I have noticed more pedal strikes than my previous hardtail with stock DW tires. But maybe this isn't a huge factor on the tour divide with mostly gravel or dirt roads rather than single track?


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

@Vik, I'm currently running a SQlab 16 degree high rise bar (45mm IIRC which I think is overall rise rather than centre to centre) after reading Andrew Major's article on NSMB (I love their work) which I really like. While it would be tempting to try the Surly Sunrise bar it is a bit pricy and a bit heavy cf the SQlab.

@Johnny Rhubarb - love the bike, it looks awesome and tons of fun. I posted it on the "Steel is Real" forum on PB and got some great comments.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

*My current build.*









My current build. I have lost count of how many variations I have done with the Krampus but I need at least 2 hands to count them. This is one of the reasons I bought the frame / fork back in late 2014 was it's versatility.

I love SS and the simplicity of it but am tempted to put gears back on (7 speed cassette made from 10 speed 11-42 with largest 3 cogs dropped) for a little more speed over summer. The Pikes are now on my Murmur (now at 160mm) so it's staying rigid for a while now.


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

vikb said:


> I've got the Stooge Cycles Moto bar on one of my bikes and like it a lot. Wide, nice rise and backsweep. They can be a bit hard to come by, but another batch is due in July. I'll probably grab another set.
> 
> Moto bar | Stooge Cycles
> 
> ...


Curious to hear your opinion on the SQ lab bars. I've been thinking about swapping the stock salsa bars on my Krampus for the SQ 16degree sweep. I've been eying up the stooge bars too for awhile and might be worth waiting instead for those in July.

I had a pair of custom welded riser bars like the Sunrise bars but with 17degree sweep on my previous bike set up. I liked the geometry but man they were a boat anchor on the front!


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## Johnny Rhubarb (Jun 3, 2016)

@fartymarty thanks! it sure is loads of fun, i was on the brink of selling it and gladly kept it and converted it to a coaster mtb. Don't sell your krampus folks!


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

loren90 said:


> Curious to hear your opinion on the SQ lab bars. I've been thinking about swapping the stock salsa bars on my Krampus for the SQ 16degree sweep. I've been eying up the stooge bars too for awhile and might be worth waiting instead for those in July.
> 
> I had a pair of custom welded riser bars like the Sunrise bars but with 17degree sweep on my previous bike set up. I liked the geometry but man they were a boat anchor on the front!


I was using 780mm wide Renthal Fatbars on my bike(s) before switching to the SQlabs 16s. The 16s put you hands in a more natural position and it took no time to adjust. They are a reasonable weight as well so going to something like the Surly Sunrise would add a heap of weight to the front of the bike which I am not overly keen on. I'm also not sure what the increase in stack height will do for the F/R weight balance of the bike. I guess one option is to run the chain stays longer with monkey nuts. If my steerer was longer I could experiment first before taking the plunge.

The Motos look very similar to the SQ16s. There were no weights for the Junker but given its 4130 I would assume it's a similar weight to the Sunrise. I guess there are other options (Oddity etc) but boy are they pricy and I would have to be happy with the geo first.

As usual too many options so I will probably stick with what I have got unless I can find a cheap set of Sunrise bars somewhere.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

fartymarty said:


> The Motos look very similar to the SQ16s.


The backsweep is pretty comparable. The high rise SQ16 is lower than the rise in the Motos so that could be a pro/con depending what position you are after.

The more I ride the Motos the more I like the higher backsweep position. It seems to have really helped mitigate some forearm/elbow irritation I've been having on "normal" riser bars in the 7-8 deg backsweep range.

FWIW - I cut my Motos down to ~760-770mm.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

I have a couple of questions for the experts. What length stems do the latest medium and large Krampus come with stock?

Second, was there a change to the "new" Krampus after the first batch of bright red frames? I seem to recall reading something, and looking at a new purple Krampus, the top tube seemed skinnier, and the welds were more prominent than on my red one.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

cjbiker said:


> I have a couple of questions for the experts. What length stems do the latest medium and large Krampus come with stock?
> 
> Second, was there a change to the "new" Krampus after the first batch of bright red frames? I seem to recall reading something, and looking at a new purple Krampus, the top tube seemed skinnier, and the welds were more prominent than on my red one.


I believe the stock stem length was 80mm, though I could be off a tad. It was a bit on the long side by modern standards I remember. I swapped mine to a 60mm.

There is no change from the red to purple Krampii. Both are the latest gen, both kick ass, only they do so in different colors


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

DaddyFatStax said:


> I believe the stock stem length was 80mm, though I could be off a tad. It was a bit on the long side by modern standards I remember. I swapped mine to a 60mm.
> 
> There is no change from the red to purple Krampii. Both are the latest gen, both kick ass, only they do so in different colors


Stock stems are all 80mm. I swapped mine to a 50mm. Pretty sure the frames are the same and the purple looks cooler in person than in the photos. Although I think their new color scheme will be out this summer (running low on last year's purple currently).


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

DaddyFatStax said:


> I believe the stock stem length was 80mm, though I could be off a tad. It was a bit on the long side by modern standards I remember. I swapped mine to a 60mm.
> 
> There is no change from the red to purple Krampii. Both are the latest gen, both kick ass, only they do so in different colors





loren90 said:


> Stock stems are all 80mm. I swapped mine to a 50mm. Pretty sure the frames are the same and the purple looks cooler in person than in the photos. Although I think their new color scheme will be out this summer (running low on last year's purple currently).


Thanks! I went to a Surly demo last weekend and rode a medium purple Krampus. I have a large red one. The bikes were set up similarly with 120mm forks (Yari on the demo, Magnum on mine), but the demo medium seemed a lot more "playful". Easier to wheelie and manual and pop over obstacles. When I got back on my bike with a 45mm stem, it felt a bit cramped, which surprised me a bit. I didn't think to check the stem length on the demo bike until after I left. I thought I saw that the stock bikes had 70mm stems, but that would have yielded same reach as my large with a 45mm stem. They must have had 80mm stems.

Anyone have a medium Krampus frame they want to sell? I love my "Andy's Apple Red", and hate to give that up, but the purple is OK.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

Built up my Bruiser Ego Purple today and play to get a shake down ride tomorrow.


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

Anyone ever put 2.5's on the Rabbit Holes? Need to change my riding style for a while. I have a set of Maxxis Grifters in 2.5. I know another on here about 2 to 3 years ago had them but not sure if they changed wheels or not.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

noosa2 said:


> Built up my Bruiser Ego Purple today and play to get a shake down ride tomorrow.
> 
> View attachment 1261131
> 
> ...


From their look i could use 2 bars like that.
May i have details, rise ? mm, link?
Thanks


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

33red said:


> From their look i could use 2 bars like that.
> May i have details, rise ? mm, link?
> Thanks


https://answerproducts.com/product/aluminum/


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## UncleFeet (Feb 11, 2009)

*Rack off*

Hey all, I have the OG 2012 Krampus and I'm keen for the rear surly rack. All the pics of the rack show two struts connecting to the seatstays via two horizontally aligned bolts. My Krampus only has the one bolt in the centre of the seatstay bridge. Does anyone know whether it'll be compatible?
Many thanks.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

PSA... I just got a Rockshox Yari for my bike for 449 from the bike shop. Seems Rockshox has lots of them and they're on sale. 
I called up to order a Pike and they were out. Pikes were 880 and I was just gonna bite the bullet and get it. My friend from the shop suddenly said WOW! Yaris are on super sale. Get that and later on we can mod it to basically make it a Pike. Costs 100 bucks. 
I have it, gorgeous fork. Waiting for the brake adapter to show up and I'll post a pic on the bike. Can't wait to try it.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

NYrr496 said:


> PSA... *I just got a Rockshox Yari for my bike for 449 from the bike shop.* Seems Rockshox has lots of them and they're on sale.
> I called up to order a Pike and they were out. Pikes were 880 and I was just gonna bite the bullet and get it. My friend from the shop suddenly *said WOW! Yaris are on super sale. * Get that and later on we can mod it to basically make it a Pike. Costs 100 bucks.
> I have it, gorgeous fork. Waiting for the brake adapter to show up and I'll post a pic on the bike. Can't wait to try it.


UGH, sold out. Why didn't you post this 3 days ago?? 

BTW the Yari shares the same chassis as the Lyric. A damper swap makes it a Super Yari (Lyric). Should be a sweet fork! Too bad we all missed out on that super sale.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

*OneSpeed* said:


> UGH, sold out. Why didn't you post this 3 days ago??
> 
> BTW the Yari shares the same chassis as the Lyric. A damper swap makes it a Super Yari (Lyric). Should be a sweet fork! Too bad we all missed out on that super sale.


Crap. Really? I KNEW I should have ordered another one for my son.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Transformed the bike. I loved it rigid. This is just excellent. That's a 3 1/4" tire in there. Plenty of room.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

ELECTRIC_YETI said:


> Anyone ever put 2.5's on the Rabbit Holes? Need to change my riding style for a while. I have a set of Maxxis Grifters in 2.5. I know another on here about 2 to 3 years ago had them but not sure if they changed wheels or not.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Sorry for slow reply, and I haven't done "exactly" what you are asking, but here is some input anyway. I previously ran 2.4's on Velocity Dually's, so a touch narrower in both regards to your question. But I personally really liked it, and I know Jeff Jones has steered many people that way as well. However, it does square off the tire profile a lot, so if you are a really aggressive rider, or the side knobs on the tires get too flattened out, they may not be the best for you. 
They work for me, because I tend to do XC/high alpine trails, but not downhill/flow/aggro focused riding. They gave great contact patch for the size, but I'm sure if I pushed harder into corners they wouldn't have faired so well.


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

Ain't no side knobs on these









Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

I do appreciate the info though. I'll get back to regular eventually. Recovery is slow.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## Jil (Jan 21, 2018)

Hi,
here is my Surly "slightly" modified, for gravel and road use, with Surly Extraterrestrial 2.5" tires, Bafang G310 hub motor (Grin Tech kit) and 1000 Wh home made battery.

















This ebike is wonderful 

One question : is it possible to install a front chainring with more than 36 teeths ? I would like to have at least 38, if possible 40 teeths, but for this I need to offset the chainring, I don't know how to do it, and what to install.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Lets talk Krampus skilz...

How do you guys find this thing is to manual?

I know the stays could be a tad shorter, but it's a wheelie machine in my experience (XL). I'm crap at manuals but trying to learn and don't think I should be able to blame the bike, right? Anyone able to cruise long manuals on this thing?


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

vikb said:


> The backsweep is pretty comparable. The high rise SQ16 is lower than the rise in the Motos so that could be a pro/con depending what position you are after.
> 
> The more I ride the Motos the more I like the higher backsweep position. It seems to have really helped mitigate some forearm/elbow irritation I've been having on "normal" riser bars in the 7-8 deg backsweep range.
> 
> FWIW - I cut my Motos down to ~760-770mm.


Vik - I ended up getting a pair of Surly Sunrise bars for my Krampus. The backsweep (17 degrees) is similar to the SQlabs (16 degrees) that they replaced. I ended up cutting them down from 820 to 780mm so they are the same as my SQ labs on the Murmur. I had my first ride on the weekend and they felt really good. The front didn't seem to light when pushing hard into corners. I didn't seem to notice the front lifting too much on climbs either.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I ended up doing some good wheelies (for me - about 20 pedals) last weekend. 

I'm rubbish at manuals and need to practice more.


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

As for manuals, mine is a large and probably should have been a medium, I'm not very good at it anyway but I am running a really short riser stem and still have some trouble with it. Thinking I might switch to a 0 rise and get the Sunrise bars to see if it helps. Although in the process of moving to the East side of Houston and no idea what the riding will be there. So it it may stay the same.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

The new Krampus is due out this month or next. Any bets or predictions on color options?

I'd personally like to see a navy blue or battleship grey. Better yet, maybe a copper or rusty orange.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Is the geo new or just the colour?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

fartymarty said:


> Is the geo new or just the colour?


Curious about this myself! If they lengthen the reach or shorten the chainstays I may need a new frame...


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

My guess is just a new color.


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## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

fartymarty said:


> Is the geo new or just the colour?


I have a suspicion that geo will change.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

SSsteel4life said:


> I have a suspicion that geo will change.


What's with this winky face? What do you know? Common, spill the beans!!

(PM if necessary)


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Uh, yea pm me too!!


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

*OneSpeed* said:


> What's with this winky face? What do you know? Common, spill the beans!!
> 
> (PM if necessary)


me too! me too!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I got my Krampus back in 2013 and have loved it ever since. I did want to "modernize" the geo and wasn't totally sold on the current MK3 Krampus - although I got close to ordering one and the deal didn't work out. So I took my Krampus love and got a custom bike built I am calling the Mega Krampus because it's the Krampus and more! 










I won't pollute this thread with any more non-Krampusness beyond the photo above. If you are interested I started a Mega Krampus thread here:


__
https://flic.kr/p/7

As far as my OG green Krampus it's not going anywhere. It's probably done with it's role as my main bikepacking rig in favour of the new bike, but I ride the OG Krampus all over town SS as an urban assault machine and love it.

I'm going to sell my LHT because I ride the Krampus when I should ride it. I may even sell my Straggler for the same reason. Both the LHT and Straggler should be a better choice for around town riding than the Krampus, but I still take the Krampus 99% of the time. It just puts a huge smile on my face. :thumbsup:

I'm excite to hear about a MK4 Krampus with new geo hopefully it's rad!


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

SSsteel4life said:


> I have a suspicion that geo will change.


I tried to get some info on the new Krampus out of the fine folks at Surly, but the most they would tell me is to keep my eyes peeled for news this month AND next month. (There will apparently be two separate announcements).

That said, I wouldn't mind a pm if you have any good gossip/RUMINT on potential changes...


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Didn't they make some changes to the newest ICT to lighten it up a tad too. Wonder if something similar could be at play here.....?


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

paleh0rse said:


> I tried to get some info on the new Krampus out of the fine folks at Surly, but the most they would tell me is to keep my eyes peeled for news this month AND next month. (There will apparently be two separate announcements).


It'll be interesting to see how far along the LLS spectrum Surly pushes the Krampus geo. A new 29+ tire could be good. There is a lot of room between the Knard and the Dirt Wizard.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I would love to see a Krampus with a longer reach, a steeper STA and slacker HA. They should keep the long CS of the OG Krampys tho as they are bang on.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Vik - love it. Are you posting pics on PB? If so I will have a look on there.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

fartymarty said:


> I would love to see a Krampus with a longer reach, a steeper STA and slacker HA. They should keep the long CS of the OG Krampys tho as they are bang on.


Uh, if you give it a longer reach and slacker HTA, and make the chainstays *longer*, you're going to end up with a bike that handles like a dump truck. That would create a very long wheelbase.

With modern geo, including the steeper STA you're asking for, you want shorter chainstays to maintain the balance of the bike, and especially to maintain traction on climbs. Otherwise it will never go around corners either.

My current Krampus already feels a little raked out and cumbersome in tight corners with a 120mm fork. I'm looking for shorter chainstays, steeper STA, slightly slacker HTA, and a much longer reach.

Reach on Krampus- 470mm
Reach on my Kona Process- 510mm


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

please be shorter chainstays please be shorter chainstays please be shorter chainstays


wouldn't mind slightly less bb drop either


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

I ride a Large Krampus, and demo'd a medium recently. That experience told me that I don't want a longer front-center. So I'm not interested if they increase the reach or make the head tube angle more slack. I don't think they can shorten the chainstays much and still fit 29x3" tires. Steep seat tube angles are a hack to compensate for too-short chainstays and too-long front-center. I hope that fad dies soon.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

DaddyFatStax said:


> please be shorter chainstays please be shorter chainstays please be shorter chainstays
> 
> wouldn't mind slightly less bb drop either


I hear you can stuff a 29x3" wheel/tire on a Karate Monkey. That would give you both.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

cjbiker said:


> I ride a Large Krampus, and demo'd a medium recently. That experience told me that I don't want a longer front-center. So I'm not interested if they increase the reach or make the head tube angle more slack. I don't think they can shorten the chainstays much and still fit 29x3" tires. Steep seat tube angles are a hack to compensate for too-short chainstays and too-long front-center. I hope that fad dies soon.


I agree on the steep STAs. I don't find they pedal very well [for me] unless you are on crazy steep grades and with my slacker STA bikes I just slide forward on the saddle for those crazy steep grades so it's not a net gain for me to be forced to be in that aggressive climbing position even when trails are flat or rolling.

On the short CS the Trek Stache does 29+ with 420mm CS so they can definitely be shorter. The OG green Krampus doesn't have great 3" tire clearance with its wheel at the shortest position in the dropouts, but that's a design choice not an absolute limitation of the tire size. I'm not sure how 29+ clearance is on the new Mk3 Krampus. Reasonable people can disagree on what the "right" CS length is. Personally I don't like long CS, but I don't need them ultrashort either. Something around ~17" suits me well.


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

vikb said:


> I agree on the steep STAs. I don't find they pedal very well [for me] unless you are on crazy steep grades and with my slacker STA bikes I just slide forward on the saddle for those crazy steep grades so it's not a net gain for me to be forced to be in that aggressive climbing position even when trails and flat or rolling.
> 
> On the short CS the Trek Stache does 29+ with 420mm CS so they can definitely be shorter. The OG green Krampus doesn't have great 3" tire clearance with its wheel at the shortest position in the dropouts, but that's a design choice not an absolute limitation of the tire size. I'm not sure how 29+ clearance is on the new Mk3 Krampus. Reasonable people can disagree on what the "right" CS length is. Personally I don't like long CS, but I don't need them ultrashort either. Something around ~17" suits me well.


I agree with everything you just wrote, including the CS length at/around 17" (or 430mm). Well said!


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

vikb said:


> I agree on the steep STAs. I don't find they pedal very well [for me] unless you are on crazy steep grades and with my slacker STA bikes I just slide forward on the saddle for those crazy steep grades so it's not a net gain for me to be forced to be in that aggressive climbing position even when trails are flat or rolling.
> 
> On the short CS the Trek Stache does 29+ with 420mm CS so they can definitely be shorter. The OG green Krampus doesn't have great 3" tire clearance with its wheel at the shortest position in the dropouts, but that's a design choice not an absolute limitation of the tire size. I'm not sure how 29+ clearance is on the new Mk3 Krampus. Reasonable people can disagree on what the "right" CS length is. Personally I don't like long CS, but I don't need them ultrashort either. Something around ~17" suits me well.


On my 2017 Krampus, 29x3" DHRs and XR4s barely clear the chainstay yoke plates with the wheel slammed forward. Sure, they could shorten the chainstays a little with a non-conventional design like the Stache.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

makes sense. But can we agree to stick with the metric system when talking about CS length? 

Another cool 29+ bike with super short chainstays is the Myth Talos. if budget allowed I'd have ordered a frame long ago. interesting design he has with the "loop stay" yoke. Much more attractive than the Stache's elevated stay.

I have thought about ordering a Karate Monkey for the shorter stays also but the fact that it has less stack than the Krampus scares me. Im all legs at 6' 2.5'' with 37.5'' inseam


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

DaddyFatStax said:


> makes sense. But can we agree to stick with the metric system when talking about CS length?
> 
> Another cool 29+ bike with super short chainstays is the Myth Talos. if budget allowed I'd have ordered a frame long ago. interesting design he has with the "loop stay" yoke. Much more attractive than the Stache's elevated stay.


1 inch = 25.4mm 

Personally I think in inches when it comes to bike geo. 

My buddy has a custom Myth bike 27+/29er and it looks really nice. :thumbsup:


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## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

I am hoping the new geo gets close to vassago's new verhauen. If not I am seriously considering the verhauen even thou only clears 2.8.

https://vassagocycles.3dcartstores.com/VerHauen_c_67.html


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

When it comes to the longer front centres and slacker HTAs I'm a bit torn. On one hand I think those features can be really nice at higher speeds and on steeper terrain. On the other hand it's overkill for slower less steep riding especially in tighter trails. 

Some companies are trying to solve this dilemma by offering a range of bikes with low standover and short seattubes. The idea being most people can choose the frame length they want and them make them fit with a longer/shorter dropper & stem. That's not a terrible idea, but it's not great for really tall people that break droppers and that need high stacks to get a comfortable fit. It's also not great for us weirdos that want to put a frame bag inside the front triangle to carry stuff.

The WB on my new 29+ frame is ~3" longer than my OG Krampus and 4 degrees slacker in the HTA and that's with CS that are ~0.8" shorter on the new bike. So a much longer front centre. I'm not suggesting that's the right answer for everyone, but I know I'm going to feel a lot happier dropping into a loose chunky chute on a poorly maintained alpine trail with the new bike than I did with the OG Krampus.


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

SSsteel4life said:


> I am hoping the new geo gets close to vassago's new verhauen. If not I am seriously considering the verhauen even thou only clears 2.8.
> 
> https://vassagocycles.3dcartstores.com/VerHauen_c_67.html


I've been trying to decide between the Krampus and VerHauen myself. My problem with the updated VerHauen is the updated price that goes along with it now that Tom is having them built in the U.S., rather than in Taiwan -- this increased the price by $300 per frame.

The Krampus and VerHauen frames are $675 and $1299, respectively, and that doesn't even include whatever Tom would charge to weld on a few additional mounting bosses to the Vassago.

The VerHauen is certainly a beautiful frame, and the new geo is awesome, but is it really $700 more beautiful than a Krampus?

Decisions, decisions...


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Vik - I'm a fan of long slack geo mainly because I like riding steep tech trails. I'm on a L rigid OG Krampus with a -2 angle set and the WB is 1175 (IIRC). The WB on my XL Murmur is ~1300, CS are the same on each bike at 446K and 445M, R = 440K and 515M and HA is 3 degrees slacker at 64.5 on the Murmur. 

I can ride all the same trails on both bikes but the Murmur feels a lot safer - less chance of going OTB but the Krampus is still fun and really keeps you honest.

For me the new Krampus would be maybe 2-3" longer. Keep the horizontal dropouts then CS length can be whatever you want it to be (with a chain tug). This would give a slacker HA and longer reach. STA could be a bit steeper as I struggle to keep the front down on steep climbs and a longer reach to compensate the steep STA.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Surly has been at the forefront of new tech like fatbikes and 29+, but not really on the geo front. In that regard they have remained pretty conservative. So I'm real interested in what they decide to do for the Krampus Mk4.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

vikb said:


> *Surly has been at the forefront of new tech like fatbikes and 29+, but not really on the geo front.* In that regard they have remained pretty conservative. So I'm real interested in what they decide to do for the Krampus Mk4.


Agreed, but I feel like that has slowed in recent years. Bummer.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Agreed, but I feel like that has slowed in recent years. Bummer.


You are right, but to be fair to Surly they have to:

1. come up with something new that fits their line up of bikes [simple steel hardtail/rigid bikes at decent prices]
2. verify that it's actually awesome and something the market will go for
3. figure out how to manufacture it at a reasonable cost
4. market it

Really great innovative ideas are not easy to come by and some of the potential innovations [say gearboxes] aren't really practical within Surly's mission profile due to cost.

I don't think the lack of innovation lately is due to a lack of desire/interest on Surly's part. It's just hard to do again and again.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

If it ain't broke - don't fix it, I guess. Go too far and it starts getting niche. The great thing about the Krampus is how versatile it is. I'm sure Surly are not going to stray too far from that.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

They are smart.
Some pretend huge improvements but they focus on selecting key selling words.
They are not trying to be like others.
Well this is my opinion.
I am a HT lover.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

vikb said:


> You are right, but to be fair to Surly they have to:
> 
> 1. come up with something new that fits their line up of bikes [simple steel hardtail/rigid bikes at decent prices]
> 2. verify that it's actually awesome and something the market will go for
> ...





fartymarty said:


> If it ain't broke - don't fix it, I guess. Go too far and it starts getting niche. The great thing about the Krampus is how versatile it is. I'm sure Surly are not going to stray too far from that.


agreed....truly innovative things don't happen every 2 years (like the market wants)...I think part of their "innovation" is that they stick with a foundational design/concept....they aren't jumping on every trend and producing 12 new bike models a year and hoping that one sticks...


----------



## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

How does this handle with the moloko bars? Or would something like the ECR or KM be better paired to use with those bars for mountain biking?


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Funoutside said:


> How does this handle with the moloko bars? Or would something like the ECR or KM be better paired to use with those bars for mountain biking?


I feel like those bars are more suited to long hauls, and not trail...like Jones bars. You could probably ride trail with them, but I think it would be weird.

Since the ECR is mainly focused as a bikepacking bike, they would be great on that...


----------



## LezRide (Sep 6, 2019)

Anyone own both a Krampus and ECR? Surly's site says the ECR is also great for single track like the Krampus. They really have a lot of overlapping bikes. It can get costly and confusing. lol Which do you like better? I like both for rigid mtb duties with 3 bottle mounts(I get thirsty quick). Anyone running the Surly open or terminal bar.


----------



## LezRide (Sep 6, 2019)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> I feel like those bars are more suited to long hauls, and not trail...like Jones bars. You could probably ride trail with them, but I think it would be weird.
> 
> Since the ECR is mainly focused as a bikepacking bike, they would be great on that...


Jones has been showing off his bars on the trail. I like my currently bike(broken cause parts were stolen) but being on this site has me thinking getting another bike with even larger tires. I also see a BC, or was it Ogre at a lbs with Moloko bars on it and thought maybe Krampus with those sweeped bars like the terminal bar for single track.


----------



## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

Head tube angle on the ECR is steeper, that makes it a bit more for road. Krampus HTA will absorb shock better. Still steep enough to be efficient on the road, though.


----------



## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Good to know. I guess I will have to re-think going Krampus. Thanks


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

LezRide said:


> Anyone own both a Krampus and ECR? Surly's site says the ECR is also great for single track like the Krampus. They really have a lot of overlapping bikes. It can get costly and confusing. lol Which do you like better? I like both for rigid mtb duties with 3 bottle mounts(I get thirsty quick). Anyone running the Surly open or terminal bar.


I almost bought the ECR years ago when I was searching...I had one wheeled up to the counter of the LBS, and at the last moment, went with the Krampus instead...back then (2015) they were very similar geo wise...I had test ridden both, and in the end, the Krampus felt more "fun", and can still be used for the long trekking...the ECR felt a bit less ready for the trail use, at least to me. I could not see needing to own both...but I also bought my Krampus as my "last ever bike" purchase b/c I feel it can do it all for how I ride...I am not an N+1 guy cause I can't afford it


----------



## LezRide (Sep 6, 2019)

Thank you. Well I am thinking going frameset if I go krampus route and slowly build it up.


----------



## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

vikb said:


> Surly has been at the forefront of new tech like fatbikes and 29+, but not really on the geo front. In that regard they have remained pretty conservative. So I'm real interested in what they decide to do for the Krampus Mk4.


Anyone have the inside scoop on a v4 coming out soon? Really curious to see..

I had lusted over the original green version for a few years and finally got the new bruised ego purple last fall. Absolutely love how it rides both rigid and now with a 120mm suspension fork. So much so, I know totally unnecessary, but I'd almost love a hardtail front susp version for trails and a rigid version for a do-all commuter.

My main suggestions in terms of geometry interests are 1) Taller headtube for us lanky folks, 2) slightly higher bb drop (like 60ish instead of 65mm) for more range of tire sizes (I'd love to swap between my 3" tires for local singletrack to something like a 2.4-2.5 for long endurance type events - not sure I'd consider currently with pedal strikes), and 3) slightly longer chainstays. I feel like I would've been well-suited to the original geo but do like the upgrades with boost, thru axles, more mounts, etc.


----------



## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

loren90 said:


> Anyone have the inside scoop on a v4 coming out soon? Really curious to see..
> 
> I had lusted over the original green version for a few years and finally got the new bruised ego purple last fall. Absolutely love how it rides both rigid and now with a 120mm suspension fork. So much so, I know totally unnecessary, but I'd almost love a hardtail front susp version for trails and a rigid version for a do-all commuter.
> 
> My main suggestions in terms of geometry interests are 1) Taller headtube for us lanky folks, 2) slightly higher bb drop (like 60ish instead of 65mm) for more range of tire sizes (I'd love to swap between my 3" tires for local singletrack to something like a 2.4-2.5 for long endurance type events - not sure I'd consider currently with pedal strikes), and 3) slightly longer chainstays. I feel like I would've been well-suited to the original geo but do like the upgrades with boost, thru axles, more mounts, etc.


With long legs i went from 175 to 165 mm and will do it again even 160. My opinion is 175 is for roads and roads only.


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

Just a thought. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the announcement(s) somehow correspond with *Intergalactic Surly Day* on September 21st.

Info here:
https://surlybikes.com/surlyday

I also can't believe that I'm just now discovering the event...lol


----------



## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

paleh0rse said:


> Just a thought. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the announcement(s) somehow correspond with *Intergalactic Surly Day* on September 21st.
> 
> Info here:
> https://surlybikes.com/surlyday
> ...


I hope that is it, I can't wait much longer! Also there facebook site is curbing my appetite in the meanwhile.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/SurlyBikes/posts/


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## LezRide (Sep 6, 2019)

Salsa already announced their 2020 model and I think All-City did too.


----------



## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

LezRide said:


> Anyone own both a Krampus and ECR? Surly's site says the ECR is also great for single track like the Krampus. They really have a lot of overlapping bikes. It can get costly and confusing. lol Which do you like better? I like both for rigid mtb duties with 3 bottle mounts(I get thirsty quick). Anyone running the Surly open or terminal bar.


 Got a 2019 Krampus this spring, its awesome. The ECR specs seem cramped to me. I have 4 XL Surly bikes, all ride great.


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## bloaker (Feb 13, 2015)

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

I have a picture of Mt Fuji...


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

^ haha, that's sweet!!!!!


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

VERY cool.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Thought I'd ask this here on the off chance someone could answer...anyone have [or has tried and failed] to fit a 29+ Dirt Wizard in a 2018 Pike RCT3 Boost fork? If so can you post a clearance pic or let me know how much room you had and on what width rim?

Thanks..


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## Sir Surly (Aug 7, 2012)

Wow ! That's an awesome photo


bloaker said:


> Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
> 
> I have a picture of Mt Fuji...
> 
> View attachment 1279173


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

vikb said:


> Thought I'd ask this here on the off chance someone could answer...anyone have [or has tried and failed] to fit a 29+ Dirt Wizard in a 2018 Pike RCT3 Boost fork? If so can you post a clearance pic or let me know how much room you had and on what width rim?
> 
> Thanks..


I have a 3 1/4 inch Vee Bulldozer on a 40mm rim in a Boost Yari. Fits fine. Pic up above a bunch of posts. Dirt Wizard should be fine.


----------



## Sir Surly (Aug 7, 2012)

NYrr496 said:


> I have a 3 1/4 inch Vee Bulldozer on a 40mm rim in a Boost Yari. Fits fine. Pic up above a bunch of posts. Dirt Wizard should be fine.


Sounds like an awesome set up ! 
What are you running in back ?


----------



## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

*Pic*


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Sir Surly said:


> Sounds like an awesome set up !
> What are you running in back ?


Bontrager XR2, AKA Chupacabra.


----------



## Glenngineer (Mar 4, 2014)

Ive run 2.5 Minions, Grifters, and Eats on Rabbit Holes. It works, but tire profiles look wonky and sidewalls feel pretty exposed. The Grifters are truly terrible tires, paper thin sidewalls tear and flat nonstop. I actually ran ETs for a couple seasons before I killes my rear hun and switched to a 35mm wide Spank wheelset; they were fine, but the rounder profile on a narrower rim is visually obvious and feels more nimble blasting around.


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

so, does anybody know if the new Krampus forks fit on the OG Green Krampus frame? I would like more braze-on's and never got the old school fork with the braze on's.


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> so, does anybody know if the new Krampus forks fit on the OG Green Krampus frame? I would like more braze-on's and never got the old school fork with the braze on's.


Here's what I know...
The two forks have 1 1/8" straight steerers so they are interchangeable in the frames. The OG fork is 100mm and QR while the new one is 110 and thru axle. Need to swap hubs or wheels or whatever you're set up for. 
I have no idea if the A to C and offsets are the same.
The new fork is suspension corrected so probably taller by a bit.


----------



## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

NYrr496 said:


> Here's what I know...
> The two forks have 1 1/8" straight steerers so they are interchangeable in the frames. The OG fork is 100mm and QR while the new one is 110 and thru axle. Need to swap hubs or wheels or whatever you're set up for.
> I have no idea if the A to C and offsets are the same.
> The new fork is suspension corrected so probably taller by a bit.


You are correct on the 1.125" steerer. However:

Current fork is available in both QR and 110TA. According to Surly.
https://surlybikes.com/parts/krampus_fork

Both old and new forks are 483mm A/C, 47mm rake. Nothing has changed. Krampus' have always been suspension corrected.


----------



## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

NYrr496 said:


> I have a 3 1/4 inch Vee Bulldozer on a 40mm rim in a Boost Yari. Fits fine. Pic up above a bunch of posts. Dirt Wizard should be fine.


What's the actual width of those tires? I want to replace the Knard up front with something bigger. Knard, 120tpi, on 50mm RH rims are ~2.75" casing, 2.9" knob to knob.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

NYrr496 said:


> Here's what I know...
> The two forks have 1 1/8" straight steerers so they are interchangeable in the frames. The OG fork is 100mm and QR while the new one is 110 and thru axle. Need to swap hubs or wheels or whatever you're set up for.
> I have no idea if the A to C and offsets are the same.
> The new fork is suspension corrected so probably taller by a bit.





stremf said:


> You are correct on the 1.125" steerer. However:
> 
> Current fork is available in both QR and 110TA. According to Surly.
> https://surlybikes.com/parts/krampus_fork
> ...


cool. thanks for the info!!! I actually have a thru axle on mine. It did not come with a QR..I was mostly curious about the steerer tube...


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

stremf said:


> What's the actual width of those tires? I want to replace the Knard up front with something bigger. Knard, 120tpi, on 50mm RH rims are ~2.75" casing, 2.9" knob to knob.


I'll measure it when I get home.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

stremf said:


> You are correct on the 1.125" steerer. However:
> 
> Current fork is available in both QR and 110TA. According to Surly.
> https://surlybikes.com/parts/krampus_fork
> ...


Cool. Who knew?


----------



## Glenngineer (Mar 4, 2014)

Surlys big day has come and is almost gone, no news that I've seen on a Krampus update.

That said, not sure why I care when I really do love my red one.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Glenngineer said:


> Surlys big day has come and is almost gone, no news that I've seen on a Krampus update.


Damn. I was holding out for a 32+ Uber Krampus.


----------



## FoafInTX (Jan 3, 2014)

*ECR vs Krampus*



LezRide said:


> Anyone own both a Krampus and ECR? Surly's site says the ECR is also great for single track like the Krampus. They really have a lot of overlapping bikes. It can get costly and confusing. lol Which do you like better? I like both for rigid mtb duties with 3 bottle mounts(I get thirsty quick). Anyone running the Surly open or terminal bar.


I do not own both, but I have ridden both. I rode a ECR around the block at the local shop and felt like I'd found my bike. Later, I got a chance to rent a Krampus (original model) for a weekend and loved it. My first real riding on 29+. That was the idea, to find out how I liked 29+. Now I had a problem. Which one? I loved them both. Here is my take... The Krampus was more trail bike oriented. I was more stretched out and in a more aggressive position. I am 5' 9" and rode mediums in both. The ECR is more comfort oriented, for the long haul. I chose the ECR, and couldn't be happier... but occasionally think about a Krampus or a Karate Monkey. I don't really ride it on true singletrack that require a lot of dodging and quick changes in direction. I do more open spaces and cross country riding. It did great on the trails outside of Las Vegas, even if I didn't! There was more maneuvering there than I usually do, fun and challenging. Altitude and hills were hard for a guy on the Gulf Coast.

So if were mostly riding singletrack, I'd get a Krampus. It can be used as an all around and is popular for bike packing. It is tons of fun.

An ECR is great for just cruising around and can handle almost anything... pavement, packed dirt, loose dirt, fist sized rocks. I love the Jones bars and the Microshifters. They are addictive. It is very comfortable. That comfortable feeling while cruising anywhere is why I like it so much. Great for mixed mode riding.

Both have the 29+ and can handle the same kinds of surface conditions. I'd say Krampus for mostly trails, ECR for general riding. You can do pretty much anything on a Krampus that you can on an ECR, but the reverse maybe not. The ECR is more comfortable for the stuff it does well.

I have heard if you are really loading up the bike, the ECR handles better. I haven't done that on either. You can't go wrong.


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

Glenngineer said:


> Surlys big day has come and is almost gone, no news that I've seen on a Krampus update.
> 
> That said, not sure why I care when I really do love my red one.


Yeah, I'm a little annoyed that they didn't time their announcement with their big party. It makes no sense IMO.

Only reason I personally care is because my order remains on hold until I see the new color(s). I'd like to avoid potential buyer's remorse, so I have to wait. It's a moral imperative.


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

FoafInTX said:


> I love the Jones bars and the Microshifters.


Which microSHIFT model are running on your Jones bars?


----------



## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

Glenngineer said:


> Surlys big day has come and is almost gone, no news that I've seen on a Krampus update.
> 
> That said, not sure why I care when I really do love my red one.


Good on Surly for not turning a fun bike day into some marketing/product release ploy.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Are we sure there is any Krampus announcement coming beyond the usual new colours for the next year?


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

vikb said:


> Are we sure there is any Krampus announcement coming beyond the usual new colours for the next year?


One of Surly's engineers told me directly that there would be two Krampus-related announcements -- one in September and one in October.

They refused to give me any hints for the content of said announcements.

If I had to guess, it will probably just be new colors and some changes/updates to their complete build packages; but again, that's just a guess. They could announce an entirely new geometry for all I know.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

paleh0rse said:


> One of Surly's engineers told me directly that there would be two Kampus-related announcements -- one in September and one in October.


Well they have a week left for the first announcement. I guess we'll see what happens.


----------



## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

paleh0rse said:


> One of Surly's engineers told me directly that there would be two Krampus-related announcements -- one in September and one in October.
> 
> They refused to give me any hints for the content of said announcements.
> 
> If I had to guess, it will probably just be new colors and some changes/updates to their complete build packages; but again, that's just a guess. They could announce an entirely new geometry for all I know.


My guesses - new color and build kits. Maybe one rigid option and a suspension fork option, like they did with the KM.


----------



## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

My krampus


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

edge said:


> My krampus


another OG green!!! Love it...


----------



## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Quick(ish) question about the bb on the latest gen (purple)

People complain about the spline bb but I’m not sure why, when I pedal, it goes. I know next to nothing about bb’s but I do want to change my crankset to a shorter one. 

Should I upgrade the stock bb while I’m at it? Why? And if so what am I looking for as far as compatibility?

Thanks gang


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

It’s a 73 mm threaded bottom bracket, which is a classic, common size. My crankset is a race face turbine. It’s from around 2014, I switched the parts from my old surly to my new one. But both were built from frame sets, and I chose all the parts. The race face crankset has a lot of power transfer, and rotates more smoothly than the original one I used. That was also a race face, but the cheapest one. Your power does translate through that mechanism. And I personally recommend getting the best, within reason, you can afford. It doesn’t have to be uber expensive. But should be very good quality. 

I’ll let someone else answer the spline question.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I built my Black Krampus from a frameset. I used a RaceFace Aeffect crankset and a Chris King bottom bracket. Very happy with it. I really like the Aeffect direct mount ring. In have a Wolftooth ring on it. 

I have seen those spline bbs loosen and have the arms get loose. Maybe thats what they mean.


----------



## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

33red said:


> From their look i could use 2 bars like that.
> May i have details, rise ? mm, link?
> Thanks


Sorry, just saw this. These are 810mm wide Answer pro taper bars with a 3" rise. I trimmed them down to 790mm and now they are onn my DJ bike. I went back to a 1" rise pro taper bar.


----------



## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Quick(ish) question about the bb on the latest gen (purple)
> 
> People complain about the spline bb but I'm not sure why, when I pedal, it goes. I know next to nothing about bb's but I do want to change my crankset to a shorter one.
> 
> ...


Assuming you bought a complete bike, which comes with a SRAM Power Spline bottom bracket, and you want to change your crank, you will need to change the bottom bracket as well. You will want a 73mm BSA bottom bracket that integrates with whatever crank spindle your new crankset has.

Popular cranksets, purchased in the aftermarket, are not designed to be used with the Power Spline BB...


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## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

vikb said:


> Well they have a week left for the first announcement. I guess we'll see what happens.


Now we have less then 24hrs! I sure hope it is worth the wait! In the mean time I will keep riding my MDS Krampus.


----------



## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Thanks for all the input on the bb. still not entirely certain why the disdain for powerspline but if i want shorter cranks it sounds like I should be looking to replace it anyway. 

Sweet ride SSsteel.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

I should add that my Raceface crankset came with a Raceface bottom bracket. At the time they came together, and you had to chose the one with the correct bb size. Now they are sold separately. I could see the difference between the higher quality one that came with the Turbine than their entry level one. It was stiffer and spun more smoothly.


----------



## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Thanks for all the input on the bb. still not entirely certain why the disdain for powerspline but if i want shorter cranks it sounds like I should be looking to replace it anyway.
> 
> Sweet ride SSsteel.


I've seen some technical discussions in this forum when discussing stock components on particular Surlys. Not sure which threads. If you filter this subforum for 'spline' you might find something.


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

SSsteel4life said:


> Now we have less then 24hrs! I sure hope it is worth the wait! In the mean time I will keep riding my MDS Krampus.


Just called Surly HQ. Sadly, it looks like the announcement has been delayed until sometime between now and mid-October. They didn't provide a reason or any additional info, so it is what it is.


----------



## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

paleh0rse said:


> Just called Surly HQ. Sadly, it looks like the announcement has been delayed until sometime between now and mid-October. They didn't provide a reason or any additional info, so it is what it is.


Thanks for the intel, horse!

mid-October....I believe thats SurlySpeak for February 2020.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Thanks for the intel, horse!
> 
> mic-October....I believe thats SurlySpeak for February 2020.


and won't be available until mid-October 2020.....


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

It's almost like this has happened before...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

paleh0rse said:


> Just called Surly HQ. Sadly, it looks like the announcement has been delayed until sometime between now and mid-October. They didn't provide a reason or any additional info, so it is what it is.


6 business days left until mid-Oct. I'm getting excited for the release of the Uber Krampus 32+ machine.


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

vikb said:


> 6 business days left until mid-Oct. I'm getting excited for the release of the Uber Krampus 32+ machine.


hell yeah...hopefully called "The Sled"


----------



## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

Thoughts on sticking a 2.6" tire like an XR2 on stock i40 rims (newer gen krampus) for an upcoming gravel race? A lot of elevation and roads are apparently pretty rough like xc mtb terrain. Gravel bike needs some work, and swapping tires on the krampus seems like a quicker, cheaper option.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

loren90 said:


> Thoughts on sticking a 2.6" tire like an XR2 on stock i40 rims (newer gen krampus) for an upcoming gravel race? A lot of elevation and roads are apparently pretty rough like xc mtb terrain. Gravel bike needs some work, and swapping tires on the krampus seems like a quicker, cheaper option.


Do you have 120tpi Knards? They roll fast and you get the full 29+ cushion effect which is nice.


----------



## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

vikb said:


> Do you have 120tpi Knards? They roll fast and you get the full 29+ cushion effect which is nice.


Just the original DWs, current set up are ranger toughs. General idea for a 2.6 is a faster rolling tread and lighter rotational weight.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

loren90 said:


> Just the original DWs, current set up are ranger toughs. General idea for a 2.6 is a faster rolling tread and lighter rotational weight.


The Knards roll really fast and the extra weight is not an issue at 980g. If I was buying new tires either way that's what I'd get for gravel.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

2.6's will lower the BB and increase the chance of pedal strikes.


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

vikb said:


> I'm getting excited for the release of the Uber Krampus 32+ machine.


Will standards never cease?!?


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Darth Lefty said:


> Will standards never cease?!?


A new standard is not a bad thing if it offers a tangible improvement on something that already exists. A new standard for the sake of a new standard is extremely annoying.

I'm not saying 32+ would be good necessarily, but I would want to try it. So much so that I may buy one. Probably want 2.6-2.8" tires though. (I've never said that before)


----------



## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

*OneSpeed* said:


> 2.6's will lower the BB and increase the chance of pedal strikes.


Yeah this has been talked about a lot - I already have noticed more pedal strikes with 3.0 tires than my previous hardtail. But in this case, I'm not sure it will matter as much on gravel. I noticed some people on the bikepacking TDR bikes with 2.4-2.6 tires on their newer gen krampuses.


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Surly posted Krampus info on Instagram. Two new build options [suspension fork + dropper and rigid/rigid]. I haven't looked too hard, but doesn't seem like anything actually has changed with respect to the frame itself.

https://linkin.bio/surlybikes


----------



## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2458620827751935



Quick video


----------



## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

loren90 said:


> My guesses - new color and build kits. Maybe one rigid option and a suspension fork option, like they did with the KM.


Hey called it! Nice to have a suspension and dropper post option. Love the new tangled up in blue color, too, but they definitely cut costs on the groupset/brakes to keep the price the same. Glad I got the previous model and build (I think it was even cheaper last fall - $1450 or $1500?). Seems like just the frameset is the way to go.


----------



## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

Game on!


----------



## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

I dig that BLUE


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

Decisions decisions...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I'd do a frame up build so I'm not really fussed what the build kit specs are. If the frames are the same less new colours than nothing has really changed. That purple was killer though. Nicest Surly colour since the OG green Krampus.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

vikb said:


> I'd do a frame up build so I'm not really fussed what the build kit specs are. If the frames are the same less new colours than nothing has really changed. That purple was killer though. Nicest Surly colour since the OG green Krampus.


agreed...that purple would almost entice me into getting a newer frame to play with...but my OG greenie would possibly get jealous

maybe make a 27.5+ singlespeed....hmmmmmm


----------



## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

Bummer, no geo changes. Thou I like that blue color. I was ripping my krampus the other night and thought what do i really need changed. It handles everything so well! Maybe I build up a light weight blue one to complement its brother! I have never been a weight weenie, but getting older I wonder what a light weight hardtail would be like.

Anyone know what the frame weights are on these latest Gen Krampus frames?


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

SSsteel4life said:


> Anyone know what the frame weights are on these latest Gen Krampus frames?


If I remember correctly, Large is around 6-6.5lbs.


----------



## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

nitrousjunky said:


> If I remember correctly, Large is around 6-6.5lbs.


Thanks


----------



## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> agreed...that purple would almost entice me into getting a newer frame to play with...but my OG greenie would possibly get jealous
> 
> maybe make a 27.5+ singlespeed....hmmmmmm


Even with a custom 29+ HT I still ride my OG Krampus a bunch. The new bike is much better for trail work, but the rigid OG Krampus setup SS is a ton of fun for urban assault work and I don't feel bad locking it up outside when I run an errand.

Personally I wouldn't go 27+ as it does nothing better than 29+, but a rigid SS 29+ and a suspension forked/droppered geared 29+ could be a nice combo.


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## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

vikb said:


> Personally I wouldn't go 27+ as it does nothing better than 29+


Truer words have never been spoken!


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

mohrgan said:


> Truer words have never been spoken!


This, I went from a 27+ hardtail before to a krampus and haven't looked back!


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

Quick question: I'm about to pull the trigger on a complete build. Besides the obvious 18t cog, what Surly parts are recommended to immediately convert it to 30x18t singlespeed? 

I'm thinking just a cog, spacers, and a Tuggnut, but I've never built a Surly SS before. What do you guys recommend?


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

vikb said:


> Even with a custom 29+ HT I still ride my OG Krampus a bunch. The new bike is much better for trail work, but the rigid OG Krampus setup SS is a ton of fun for urban assault work and I don't feel bad locking it up outside when I run an errand.
> 
> Personally I wouldn't go 27+ as it does nothing better than 29+, but a rigid SS 29+ and a suspension forked/droppered geared 29+ could be a nice combo.


hmmm...maybe will reverse the thought, and do my OG as a SS and build up the new one as my geared, bikepacker/winter rider...

would not do suspension though. I hate the feel of it


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> hmmm...maybe will reverse the thought, and do my OG as a SS and build up the new one as my geared, bikepacker/winter rider...
> 
> would not do suspension though. I hate the feel of it


Haha, good suspension doesn't feel like anything. But there is a certain something that a rigid bike has that you can't deny.

I like the new orange and blue, but the original MK2 red is still the best.


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## Johnny Rhubarb (Jun 3, 2016)

cjbiker said:


> but the original MK2 red is still the best.


exactly! :thumbsup: although difficult to catch on camera









but when the purple came out, i got shaky...


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## tri-tele (Jun 18, 2009)

Yep, the purple works.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

I have to say I was hoping for an update to the geometry of the frame. A new color is not exciting, and it's pretty easy to throw a fork on the standard build. 

The current geometry is too conservative. It could really use shorter chainstays and a longer reach. And a slightly steeper STA. 

Guess I'll keep waiting for someone to make the perfect 29+ steel hardtail frame.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

*OneSpeed* said:


> I have to say I was hoping for an update to the geometry of the frame. A new color is not exciting, and it's pretty easy to throw a fork on the standard build.
> 
> The current geometry is too conservative. It could really use shorter chainstays and a longer reach. And a slightly steeper STA.
> 
> Guess I'll keep waiting for someone to make the perfect 29+ steel hardtail frame.


I too was hoping for a geometry update, but it would have surprised me if they actually did it just yet.

I keep thinking the same thing as you until I go ride the damn thing and then it just feels...right.

But for what you (and admittedly I) are looking for, I gotta say that Myth Talos is darn near perfect. I just can't afford or truly justify it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

DaddyFatStax said:


> But for what you (and admittedly I) are looking for, I gotta say that *Myth Talos is darn near perfect*. I just can't afford or truly justify it.


The Reach on a XL is only 475mm. While it is a small improvement on the Krampus, it's still way short.

The Myth is a pretty sweet looking bike though, I'd love to ride one. With the shorter chainstays, and a 74 STA, and less BB drop than the Krampus, I wonder if the front end doesn't get light on climbs. The reach is only slightly longer than the Krampus.


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## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

*OneSpeed* said:


> The Reach on a XL is only 475mm. While it is a small improvement on the Krampus, it's still way short.
> 
> The Myth is a pretty sweet looking bike though, I'd love to ride one. With the shorter chainstays, and a 74 STA, and less BB drop than the Krampus, I wonder if the front end doesn't get light on climbs. The reach is only slightly longer than the Krampus.


The norco torrent ST is pretty close, thou only says 2.6 clearance, Maybe it could squeeze 2.8? Also geared dropouts, if you only want SS. Otherwise dang close!

https://www.norco.com/bikes/2020/mountain/all-mountain/torrent-ht-steel/torrent-ht-s-frame/


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

*OneSpeed* said:


> The Reach on a XL is only 475mm. While it is a small improvement on the Krampus, it's still way short.
> 
> The Myth is a pretty sweet looking bike though, I'd love to ride one. With the shorter chainstays, and a 74 STA, and less BB drop than the Krampus, I wonder if the front end doesn't get light on climbs. The reach is only slightly longer than the Krampus.


Just a FYI the Myth Talos geo chart numbers are with the fork sagged not unsagged. That'll affect any comparisons as most geo charts I've seen post unsagged numbers.

My custom 29+ has similar geo and it climbs steeps great. No issues with the front end coming up or feeling light.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

vikb said:


> Just a FYI the Myth Talos geo chart numbers are with the fork sagged not unsagged. That'll affect any comparisons as most geo charts I've seen post unsagged numbers.
> 
> My custom 29+ has similar geo and it climbs steeps great. No issues with the front end coming up or feeling light.


Ah, good call. That changes things a little with the BB height, but only makes the STA worse. Also doesn't improve the short reach.

And no, the Norco is not close. 2.6 is NOT plus, and no SS dropouts are a deal breaker.

Don't worry all, I'm acutely aware that the only way to get what I want is to go custom. Again.


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

What do you guys use for QR seatclamps on the Surly frames? The 33.1 OD is annoying the hell out of me. Is the black Salsa Flip-lock literally the only 33.1 QR option in the world?


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

paleh0rse said:


> What do you guys use for QR seatclamps on the Surly frames? The 33.1 OD is annoying the hell out of me. Is the black Salsa Flip-lock literally the only 33.1 QR option in the world?


The Flip Locks are great.


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

I have the Hope









Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

ELECTRIC_YETI said:


> I have the Hope


I haven't seen a size 33.1 Hope option in the wild. Which Hope clamp is that, exactly?


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

I lied to you sorry. That's a 30 on the OG Krampus.my 33.1 is the black one

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

Which Surly chain tensioner works best with the newer (2019 or 2020) Krampus wheels+frames when converting the drivetrain to singlespeed?

Tuggnut vs. Snuggnut?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Snuggnut


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Snuggnut


I believe my LBS ordered the Tugg when I asked them to gather the Surly parts required to set it up SS, so I'll ask them to switch it out. Thank you!


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## Johnny Rhubarb (Jun 3, 2016)

paleh0rse said:


> What do you guys use for QR seatclamps on the Surly frames? The 33.1 OD is annoying the hell out of me. Is the black Salsa Flip-lock literally the only 33.1 QR option in the world?


There's also a 33.1 from Paul, they're pricey but definitively worth it. I got them on 2 bikes and they are a pleasure to use


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

Johnny Rhubarb said:


> There's also a 33.1 from Paul, they're pricey but definitively worth it. I got them on 2 bikes and they are a pleasure to use


Good info, than you!

Last question before I put everything together:

The new suspension fork Surly includes with their 2020 complete bike offering has an axle-to-crown of 531mm.

I have a Fox fork that has an a2c of 525mm at 120mm or 535mm at 130mm. (I have the airshafts for 120, 130, and 140). Would the 535mm a2c at 130mm be too aggressive for this frame, or is still within a reasonable spec?


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

paleh0rse said:


> Good info, than you!
> 
> Last question before I put everything together:
> 
> ...


If I had to take a wild guess I'd say you'll be fine. I took a 120mm Rockshox Yari out of the box, put it on my bike and set the air pressure. Nothing else. I don't even know what the A to C is. Bike feels perfect.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

paleh0rse said:


> The new suspension fork Surly includes with their 2020 complete bike offering has an axle-to-crown of 531mm.
> 
> I have a Fox fork that has an a2c of 525mm at 120mm or 535mm at 130mm. (I have the airshafts for 120, 130, and 140). Would the 535mm a2c at 130mm be too aggressive for this frame, or is still within a reasonable spec?


It will be fine. I have a 120 Mattoc on my Krampus. It's great but definitely rakes out the bike a bit, but more noticeable is the longer wheelbase. Granted I'm on a XL, but I wouldn't want it to be any slacker or longer for my local tight twisty trails.


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

Today was a good day.

Frame: 2020 Surly Krampus, Medium, Tangled Up in Blue
Fork: 2017 FOX Factory Float 34 27.5+, 110x15mm, 51mm offset, set at 120mm (525mm a2c)
Headset: Cane Creek 15
Brakes: Tektro HD-M275
Brake Levers: Tektro HD-M275
Rotors: Tektro 180/160mm
Grips: Ergon GA3 (Orange)
Stem: ProMax, 31.8mm
Handlebar: Salsa Rustler w/o Logo
Saddle: Deity Speedtrap AM (Orange)
Seatpost: Promax 30.9
Seatpost Clamp: Salsa Flip Lock, 33.1mm
Crankset: SRAM SX Eagle 30t
Pedals: Race Face Chester (Orange)
Chainring: SX Eagle 30t
Rear SS Setup: Surly Spacer Kit, Surly 18t Cog
Tensioner: Surly Snuggnut
Bottom Bracket: SRAM Power Spline
Front Hub: Novatec, 32h, Thru-Axle
Rear Hub: Novatec, 32h, Thru-Axle
Rims: WTB i40 TCS
Tires: WTB Ranger TCS Light/Fast Rolling 29x3, 60tpi


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

Great looking ride 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

paleh0rse said:


> Today was a good day.
> 
> Frame: 2020 Surly Krampus, Medium, Tangled Up in Blue
> Fork: 2017 FOX Factory Float 34 27.5+, 110x15mm, 51mm offset, set at 120mm (525mm a2c)
> ...


awesome...was it new bike day, or new frame with parts day, or new plan coming together day?


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> awesome...was it new bike day, or new frame with parts day, or new plan coming together day?


It was a 100% new bike day for me. I've been planning the build for a while now, but I wanted to see their new offerings before pulling the trigger. It's just their complete bike build with a few parts swapped out after it arrived. (And still a few more to come... especially the brakes!)

I've actually had the Fox fork sitting in a box for 2.5 years. I broke my leg just after buying it, so this is essentially the bikepacking rig I planned to build before that happened.

Good things come to those who wait!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

paleh0rse said:


> It was a 100% new bike day for me. I've been planning the build for a while now, but I wanted to see their new offerings before pulling the trigger. It's just their complete bike build with a few parts swapped out after it arrived. (And still a few more to come... especially the brakes!)
> 
> I've actually had the Fox fork sitting in a box for 2.5 years. I broke my leg just after buying it, so this is essentially the bikepacking rig I planned to build before that happened.
> 
> Good things come to those who wait!


sweet!!

and I hear ya...I waited for 2 years saving up for my OG Krampus back in 15...

get those riding pics up for sure!!


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## Beau_Do (Oct 13, 2019)

Hi guys and gals. Ive been following MTB for a while now and finally created an account. Im having trouble figuring out how to start a new thread. Help/info would be greatly appreciated! Hell of a site btw


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Beau_Do said:


> Hi guys and gals. Ive been following MTB for a while now and finally created an account. Im having trouble figuring out how to start a new thread. Help/info would be greatly appreciated! Hell of a site btw


Welcome. If i scroll up this page i can click on this forum(+) than near the top left i can click on start new thread(in this forum).
If u do not see it maybe u are forced to select beginer forum, start a thread to present yourself... before doing that at that forum there are a few threads at the top good to read to function easily.
It might take u a few entries before u can post a link, that is to limit spam i guess.
When u ask questions try to be specific, members have a ton a knowledge and will usualy be helpfull.


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## Beau_Do (Oct 13, 2019)

Thanks much for the help. Yeah I guess I cannot start a thread until I get some more comments in. The only option is to reply. Nothing that says start a new one.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Beau_Do said:


> Thanks much for the help. Yeah I guess I cannot start a thread until I get some more comments in. The only option is to reply. Nothing that says start a new one.


I joined about 3 years ago so it might have changed a bit but i suggest you go at the beginner s corner forum, read the first 2 threads(sticky) and near top left i guess you will see a button to post your personal introduction, that might unlock you after that first step. Here is a link to get there
https://forums.mtbr.com/beginners-corner/


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## Beau_Do (Oct 13, 2019)

Appreciate ya. Thats they key. Have to have ten posts before starting a thread. This is 8 now lol.


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## Beau_Do (Oct 13, 2019)

super nice build plus digging the color choices


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

Beau_Do said:


> super nice build plus digging the color choices


If that was in reference to mine, thank you for the compliments!

I am soooo damn happy with this build.


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## edved37 (Dec 8, 2014)

paleh0rse said:


> Today was a good day.
> 
> Frame: 2020 Surly Krampus, Medium, Tangled Up in Blue
> Fork: 2017 FOX Factory Float 34 27.5+, 110x15mm, 51mm offset, set at 120mm (525mm a2c)
> ...


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

edved37 said:


> I'd be curious on weight of your build, I've been thinking of doing something very close to this in the near future but wasn't sure if I wanted to go Krampus or something similar.


Honestly if your concerned about the weight of a steel 29+ bike with low-mid level components, you'll only be disappointed when you put it on a scale.

Palehorse, never weigh it, just ride it like you stole it.


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## Johnny Rhubarb (Jun 3, 2016)

I get a notification
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to *OneSpeed* again."

so, exactly like you said! cheers!


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I agree for light and acceleration go 27.5+.
Any 29+ has some qualities but i would focus on chainstay and proper rims/tires before weight.


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Honestly if your concerned about the weight of a steel 29+ bike with low-mid level components, you'll only be disappointed when you put it on a scale.
> 
> Palehorse, never weigh it, just ride it like you stole it.


This is the correct response.


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Honestly if your concerned about the weight of a steel 29+ bike with low-mid level components, you'll only be disappointed when you put it on a scale.
> 
> Palehorse, never weigh it, just ride it like you stole it.


I had the stock build and swapped out for lighter tires and few smaller parts...thought I had the weight down a bit then added a suspension fork and dropper. So yeah if you go that route, don't look at the scale.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Honestly if your concerned about the weight of a steel 29+ bike with low-mid level components, you'll only be disappointed when you put it on a scale.


A friend just got a stock build Surly Karate Monkey. I nearly put my back out lifting that bike. I would not want to know what it weighed. Regardless it's a good place to start and if the geo works well for her she'll upgrade it over time.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

loren90 said:


> I had the stock build and swapped out for lighter tires and few smaller parts...thought I had the weight down a bit then added a suspension fork and dropper. So yeah if you go that route, don't look at the scale.


When did these become weight weenie bikes? I've been lead to believe they are "Fun Factor" bikes...


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## johnnyrmxd (Nov 23, 2014)

Any bike with such sweet short chainstays can only profit from dropping some weight. Personally, I would LOVE to have some short and snappy sub 10 kilo titanium HT 27+/29er with moderate HT angle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

johnnyrmxd said:


> Any bike with such sweet short chainstays can only profit from dropping some weight. Personally, I would LOVE to have some short and snappy sub 10 kilo titanium HT 27+/29er with moderate HT angle.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I got a little used XC carbon no name 21 pounds 3 years ago, very nice for some stuff, 100 mm thin rims 29x2.3. A fat 26x4.8 for snow and 1 in the middle, all great for some stuff.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

johnnyrmxd said:


> Any bike with such sweet short chainstays can only profit from dropping some weight. Personally, I would LOVE to have some short and snappy sub 10 kilo titanium HT 27+/29er with moderate HT angle.


You can have that, just plunk down your money. Not sure why you're posting your desires for a Ti B+/29er in the Krampus thread though???


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## johnnyrmxd (Nov 23, 2014)

*OneSpeed* said:


> You can have that, just plunk down your money. Not sure why you're posting your desires for a Ti B+/29er in the Krampus thread though???


Why not? We're not under Stalin!?


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

johnnyrmxd said:


> Any bike with such sweet short chainstays can only profit from dropping some weight. Personally, I would LOVE to have some short and snappy sub 10 kilo titanium HT 27+/29er with moderate HT angle.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You ever looked at a Gnarvester?


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

NYrr496 said:


> You ever looked at a Gnarvester?


Both that and the Vassago titanium frames come to mind -- 27+/29/29+ all covered. The *Why Cycles Wayward* also fits that bill.

None of which are a Surly Krampus, though.

My new Krampus just changed my entire quiver strategy after just one ride. It was the best time I've had on two wheels in quite some time, so I'm keeping it singlespeed 29x3 for ripping up singletrack while also shopping for another new rig dedicated to gravel/bikepacking. Currently debating *ECR* vs. *Fargo* vs. *Bombtrack Hook* or *Beyond ADV+*. Good times!


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## edge (Oct 17, 2004)

paleh0rse said:


> Both that and the Vassago titanium frames come to mind -- 27+/29/29+ all covered. The *Why Cycles Wayward* also fits that bill.
> 
> None of which are a Surly Krampus, though.
> 
> My new Krampus just changed my entire quiver strategy after just one ride. It was the best time I've had on two wheels in quite some time, so I'm keeping it singlespeed 29x3 for ripping up singletrack while also shopping for another new rig dedicated to gravel/bikepacking. Currently debating *ECR* vs. *Fargo* vs. *Bombtrack Hook* or *Beyond ADV+*. Good times!


I recently converted my 1st gen Krampus to SS. Threw a suspension fork on it too. Never thought I'd love SS with front squish but I was wrong. Just lock it out when I need to.. Such a great bike..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## circoloco (Aug 9, 2016)

Jil said:


> View attachment 1185956
> 
> 
> e-Krampus


Nice! Love the paint. I want to do the same thing to my 2016 Krampus black ops (only *with* rear brake). Is there anything I should know before I start? Does the BBS01 fit right out of the box, which chainring should I use? Thanks in advance, @jil


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

NYrr496 said:


> You ever looked at a Gnarvester?


My OG, moonlit swamp, rigid size large with Rabbit Holes weighed 25lbs. Single speed. Relatively light, big boned fun is eminently doable.


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## paleh0rse (Jun 20, 2011)

*#2020krampusporn*


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Gearing??

Tasty pix, btw...


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## mountaindude (Jun 27, 2017)

paleh0rse said:


> Both that and the Vassago titanium frames come to mind -- 27+/29/29+ all covered. The *Why Cycles Wayward* also fits that bill.
> 
> None of which are a Surly Krampus, though.
> 
> My new Krampus just changed my entire quiver strategy after just one ride. It was the best time I've had on two wheels in quite some time, so I'm keeping it singlespeed 29x3 for ripping up singletrack while also shopping for another new rig dedicated to gravel/bikepacking. Currently debating *ECR* vs. *Fargo* vs. *Bombtrack Hook* or *Beyond ADV+*. Good times!


The Krampus changed my whole quiver strategy as well. I sold off some bikes. I now have just two low-maintenance beasts: the Krampus and a Surly Midnight Special (and a cruiser beater bike for short trips and when I don't want to worry about theft). The Krampus and the MS overlap nicely. The Krampus rolls great on pavement and the MS tackles dirt and gravel.


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## bloaker (Feb 13, 2015)

The Krampus did nothing to my "quiver strategy" as I still like the right tool for the right job. 

I have a Vassago Optimus Ti- in 29" trim, it is my XC rocket and a hoot! 
I have a Vassago Jabberwocky SS - and it is equally as exciting and fun in the correct environment.
I even have a Vassago Fisticuff w/ rear rack for the almost road days and sometimes XC days when a MTB just isnt the right tool. 
I have a Gen2 fargo w/ front rack as a bar bike, errand running machine. 
I have the latest gen fargo set up with 2.6 Forekasters for river runs and exploring when not in a hurry. 
I have a Stanton Sherpa set up 29+ with 120mm of squish for shredding with smiles.
I have a Santa Cruz hightower for trail work when I need a little relief from the hardtail.
I have an intense tracer for park days. 
I have a Ritchey Road Logic for distance and group rides.

And then I have the Krampus... 
The Krampus is my fully racked take any route to the grocery store I want ride.

I cannot ride them all at the same time and yes there is overlap. 
BUT - smiles for miles.... 
I could drop two bikes from my list and be OK with it, however the rest all have their place and if I were to get rid of them, the Krampus would not fill the void as well.

I love my Krampus and its versatility and I never regret riding it! 
But with regards to it affecting the other bikes in my house... nope.









This is my commute home from work when I take the Krampus...


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## mountaindude (Jun 27, 2017)

bloaker said:


> The Krampus did nothing to my "quiver strategy" as I still like the right tool for the right job.
> 
> I have a Vassago Optimus Ti- in 29" trim, it is my XC rocket and a hoot!
> I have a Vassago Jabberwocky SS - and it is equally as exciting and fun in the correct environment.
> ...


I envy your Krampus commute and I support all lovers of bikes. I used to have a garage full of bikes but found I was spending too much time on maintenance and tinkering at the expense of riding. Surly does a good job of producing bikes that can handle a wide range of conditions. But keep smiling and riding. That's what it's all about.


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

mountaindude said:


> The Krampus changed my whole quiver strategy as well. I sold off some bikes. I now have just two low-maintenance beasts: the Krampus and a Surly Midnight Special (and a cruiser beater bike for short trips and when I don't want to worry about theft). The Krampus and the MS overlap nicely. The Krampus rolls great on pavement and the MS tackles dirt and gravel.


Krampus is my only mountain bike, and I have another bike that functions as a gravel/road/commuter. I think about a FS, but kinda like the self-limiting factor and slower pace on a hardtail.

Also this bike is awesome in rigid mode.


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## awilli (Jan 1, 2017)

loren90 said:


> Krampus is my only mountain bike, and I have another bike that functions as a gravel/road/commuter. I think about a FS, but kinda like the self-limiting factor and slower pace on a hardtail.
> 
> Also this bike is awesome in rigid mode.


Great looking Bike! What pedals do you have on it?


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## bloaker (Feb 13, 2015)

loren90 said:


> Krampus is my only mountain bike, and I have another bike that functions as a gravel/road/commuter. I think about a FS, but kinda like the self-limiting factor and slower pace on a hardtail.
> 
> Also this bike is awesome in rigid mode.


A full suspension is just a softer on your body tool. 
My PRs on lots of downhill trails are on hardtails. 
Not a rigid tho... my vision gets too blurry when I hitting roots and rocks at speed.


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

awilli said:


> Great looking Bike! What pedals do you have on it?


Those are shimano XTs


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

It's been about a year since my last OG Krampus photo so here goes. Only changes are a shorter stem and a high rise Deity bar. I keep trying to wear out the Chupas, but I guess the low ground pressure means slow tire wear. 

I've got a -1 Deg Works Component headset I'm going to drop into the bike next time I get a really rainy weekend day to kill. :thumbsup:

I love this bike. So glad I grabbed one of the OG bass boat green machines.


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## FloriDave (Jul 15, 2009)

Nice! I still love my green Krampus


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

vikb said:


> I've got a -1 Deg Works Component headset I'm going to drop into the bike next time I get a really rainy weekend day to kill. :thumbsup:
> 
> I love this bike. So glad I grabbed one of the OG bass boat green machines.


Good stuff. I had an OG Krampus for 2 years, very fond memories.


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## UpTheAnte (Mar 7, 2018)

*My Pickled Beat Beauty*

Was considering building up a newer generation Krampus, for a replacement of a first gen ops I sold a couple/three years ago and regretted as it left the drive way, but then this popped up on Pinkbike and it was reasonably close and we met in the middle. 
And here is my new 150 miles on her pickled beat clock:
2018 Surly Krampus-M ( stock fork included )
Fork 2018 Rockshox Pike B1-29+ debonair RCT3 120mm
Wheel set Ibis Logo 942 carbon w/ Sram xd driver
Terene McFly 29x2.8 tires installed ( 3.0 Surly Dirt Wizards included )
Crankset, RaceFace Next Sl G4 carbon 170mm w/ 28t oval Absolute Black ring
Cassette, Sram xx1 11speed 10-42 ( XO1 cassette included )
Shifter & derailler, Sram xx1 11speed w/twist grip ( thought I would replace this, but growing to love it )
Sram XX1 chain
Dropper, Fox Performance Transfer Internal 125mm w/ Wolftooth lever
Saddle, Ergon SM Pro
Bar & Stem, Salsa 50mm stem w/ 750 Salsa Carbon Rustler
Brake set, Shimono XTR 985 calipers w/ 9020 levers

Chris, if your out there, I'm loving this ride, your attention to detail and eye for perfection, are par excellence.

All this tips the scale at 27 lbs including Mudhuggers front and rear, Fenix headlight and Garmin 510


----------



## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

The geometry looks tight on these bikes ... short reach - xl looks small imo ...
Also the stock forks look like 1976 bike gear 


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

UpTheAnte said:


> Was considering building up a newer generation Krampus, for a replacement of a first gen ops I sold a couple/three years ago and regretted as it left the drive way, but then this popped up on Pinkbike and it was reasonably close and we met in the middle.
> And here is my new 150 miles on her pickled beat clock:
> 2018 Surly Krampus-M ( stock fork included )
> Fork 2018 Rockshox Pike B1-29+ debonair RCT3 120mm
> ...


Looks like a Stache 7

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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Looks like a Stache 7


No, it doesn't.

It's 50,000 times cooler than a T$#%!!


----------



## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

4805
Fourthousandeighthundredfive posts now,
Still going strong,
Show me another bike doing this ?

Kudo's to the Krampus


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

*OneSpeed* said:


> No, it doesn't.
> 
> It's 50,000 times cooler than a T$#%!!


It does actually









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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Osco said:


> 4805
> Fourthousandeighthundredfive posts now,
> Still going strong,
> Show me another bike doing this ?
> ...


I like my Krampus so much, I got an Ice Cream Truck to compliment it.


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

TheNatureBoy said:


> It does actually
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe the beet color? But the frame looks different, and I'm sure it's a fun bike to ride, but that Trek design is ugly AF!


----------



## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

And isn't that aluminum?? No Thanks!


----------



## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

TheNatureBoy said:


> It does actually


There is something really wrong with this comparison... dare I say, you wouldn't judge books or people on color alone would you?


----------



## UpTheAnte (Mar 7, 2018)

*Surly Rear Disk Rack gen2 Krampus*

View attachment 1313857
View attachment 1313859
Excellent fit,finish,install.
View attachment 1313855


----------



## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

*OneSpeed* said:


> No, it doesn't.
> 
> It's 50,000 times cooler than a T$#%!!





Osco said:


> 4805
> Fourthousandeighthundredfive posts now,
> Still going strong,
> Show me another bike doing this ?
> ...


nope...just another fad.


----------



## temporoad (Jul 27, 2006)

*Lefty fork and wheel for sale*

Selling my Lefty fork and wheel had setup for the Krampus v1.

thanks


----------



## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Is anyone running 1x11 with non-boost Shimano cranks on a 1st Gen Krampus? Does the chain clear a true 3" tire when in the lowest gear?


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

cjbiker said:


> Is anyone running 1x11 with non-boost Shimano cranks on a 1st Gen Krampus? Does the chain clear a true 3" tire when in the lowest gear?


Isn't that the way they come?


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

NYrr496 said:


> Isn't that the way they come?


The OG Krampus was 1x10. The largest cog on an 11 speed cassette is a few mm closer to centerline. My new gen Krampus with 1x11 boost has the chain awfully close to the tire when it's in the lowest gear. I want to be sure it still clears on the older model with non-boost before I order parts.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

cjbiker said:


> The OG Krampus was 1x10. The largest cog on an 11 speed cassette is a few mm closer to centerline. My new gen Krampus with 1x11 boost has the chain awfully close to the tire when it's in the lowest gear. I want to be sure it still clears on the older model with non-boost before I order parts.


Oh, ok. my buddy has an OG Krampus and I converted it to GX Eagle 12 speed for him. He has the original Saint crankset. The chain does not rub the tire on his bike.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

NYrr496 said:


> Oh, ok. my buddy has an OG Krampus and I converted it to GX Eagle 12 speed for him. He has the original Saint crankset. The chain does not rub the tire on his bike.


What rim/tire? I've got Rabbit Hole rims and Maxxis Chronicles ready for this build. That combo should yield a true 3" tire.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

cjbiker said:


> What rim/tire? I've got Rabbit Hole rims and Maxxis Chronicles ready for this build. That combo should yield a true 3" tire.


Knards on Rabbit Holes set up split tubeless.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

NYrr496 said:


> Knards on Rabbit Holes set up split tubeless.


Excellent, thanks!

Backing up a second, you said the original Saint crankset. IIRC, the OG Krampus came with a Zee crank. Is that the one he has, or is it a Saint?


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

cjbiker said:


> Excellent, thanks!
> 
> Backing up a second, you said the original Saint crankset. IIRC, the OG Krampus came with a Zee crank. Is that the one he has, or is it a Saint?


Nope. You are correct. It is a Zee.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

NYrr496 said:


> Nope. You are correct. It is a Zee.


You're a wheel builder, right? What are your thoughts on building up the Rabbit Hole rims asymmetrically, so that the spoke tension is more even. That would use the left side spoke holes on the rear, and the right side holes on the front wheel. I've seen a few blog posts and some theoretical discussion about it on this forum, but no long-term follow up. I know the Pugs and Moonlander have used asym wheels for a long time and it hasn't been an issue. I'm mostly convinced to build up my RH rims this way.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

cjbiker said:


> You're a wheel builder, right? What are your thoughts on building up the Rabbit Hole rims asymmetrically, so that the spoke tension is more even. That would use the left side spoke holes on the rear, and the right side holes on the front wheel. I've seen a few blog posts and some theoretical discussion about it on this forum, but no long-term follow up. I know the Pugs and Moonlander have used asym wheels for a long time and it hasn't been an issue. I'm mostly convinced to build up my RH rims this way.


Im not sure it would benefit you on a frame that isnt offset. Ive never had a problem with an offset wheel on a Pugs or a Moonlander or a Lefty for that matter, but I dont think lacing a wheel offset for a frame that isnt offset would give you what you are looking for. Ill run it through a spoke calculator and see.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

NYrr496 said:


> Im not sure it would benefit you on a frame that isnt offset. Ive never had a problem with an offset wheel on a Pugs or a Moonlander or a Lefty for that matter, but I dont think lacing a wheel offset for a frame that isnt offset would give you what you are looking for. Ill run it through a spoke calculator and see.


This is the blog post that got me thinking about it.

https://gypsybytrade.wordpress.com/2012/12/10/krampus-wheelbuild/

Even in the front, the difference in spoke tension is significantly reduced by an asym build.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

Not sure about the asymmetric build, but I can say that my traditionally built RH wheels (135/100 w/ supercomps, alloy nipples and DT 240s hubs) was uncannily bomb proof. I bashed those around rigid SS for 5 years on my OG Krampus and don’t think I ever had to true ‘em.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

cjbiker said:


> This is the blog post that got me thinking about it.
> 
> https://gypsybytrade.wordpress.com/2012/12/10/krampus-wheelbuild/
> 
> Even in the front, the difference in spoke tension is significantly reduced by an asym build.


I guess you cannot argue with those spoke tensions. Build a set of wheels with Raceface offset Arcs and gain the tension benefit and easy tubeless.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

Is the krampus more bike packing? Where the karate monkey is more trails?

Like what is the express use for the Krampus ?


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Is the krampus more bike packing? Where the karate monkey is more trails?
> 
> Like what is the express use for the Krampus ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Krampus is a bad ass trail monster!


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

NYrr496 said:


> Krampus is a bad ass trail monster!


I hate that it gets this reputation. Everyone seems to think 29+ is a backpacking wheel size. (well, those that don't know).


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

cjbiker said:


> You're a wheel builder, right? What are your thoughts on building up the Rabbit Hole rims asymmetrically, so that the spoke tension is more even. That would use the left side spoke holes on the rear, and the right side holes on the front wheel. I've seen a few blog posts and some theoretical discussion about it on this forum, but no long-term follow up. I know the Pugs and Moonlander have used asym wheels for a long time and it hasn't been an issue. I'm mostly convinced to build up my RH rims this way.


I've done this twice, once on a pugsley (when I only had rear hubs) on a non-offset fork, and I laced to only the left side of the rolling darryl and once on a rabbit hole in a Jones Plus. The rolling darryl needed to be laced to the left side due to the distance between spokes, but it ran fine for the duration of the build (plus it looked silly/fun). It was not necessary on the Jones Plus as it was a normal rear end, but I did it only because of the near equal spoke tension/length benefit and I happened to have those spokes on hand. Also worked just fine for the duration that I ran/had it.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

I have to say after riding my asymmetrically laced front wheel on my Wednesday with a Lefty for 4-5 years now, I'm growing tired of it. The front wheel flexes too much when pushed hard either in hard corners or when jumping. The front end squirms and the spokes rattle together. 

My riding has changed and I'm ready for something with a stiffer front end that tracks better. 

cjbiker- Unless you're having issues with wheels that don't hold up and you're constantly having to rebuilt them, the difference in spoke tension on a traditional wheel is not a problem. In other words, you may be looking for a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. 

IMO the asymmetric lacing pattern comes with tradeoffs.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

*OneSpeed* said:


> I hate that it gets this reputation. Everyone seems to think 29+ is a backpacking wheel size. (well, those that don't know).


There are zero videos on YouTube showing the bike in rugged terrain .

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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Thanks for the responses. I have the Rabbit Hole rims on hand, so I'm going to use them for my OG Krampus, which has regular 29er wheels on it now. I bought the RH rims years ago to build KramPug wheels, but I sold the Pugsley a few years ago. I'm not looking to solve any problem, it just seemed to this amateur mechanic that the offset spoke holes could be a plus. I would expect the better bracing angle would make for a stiffer wheel, but I could be wrong.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

TheNatureBoy said:


> There are zero videos on YouTube showing the bike in rugged terrain .


Ok?


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## ELECTRIC_YETI (Dec 6, 2013)

But it does happen. Certainly not for the faint of heart. Took the wife to Sunday River for a couple of lessons.(I could only get her so far.) Her instructor asked if he could take a run with it. He came back excited and terrified. Said it was a blast but prefers the squish.








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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

TheNatureBoy said:


> There are zero videos on YouTube showing the bike in rugged terrain .
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


If it's not on YouTube it never happened?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

cjbiker said:


> If it's not on YouTube it never happened?


Sure looks like 29+ is capable of more than just touring bike paths.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

TheNatureBoy said:


> There are zero videos on YouTube showing the bike in rugged terrain .


Dang, I should've posted to youtube. Guess this stuff never happened


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NYrr496 said:


> Krampus is a bad ass trail monster!


Very capable, indeed.



*OneSpeed* said:


> I hate that it gets this reputation. Everyone seems to think 29+ is a backpacking wheel size. (well, those that don't know).


Pfft! My buddy has been freeriding a V1 since the day he bought it and since sold off the Scythe.


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

Mine was properly navigated over jumps, rocks, roots, berms, and everything else when I lived in Oregon. This pic was at Alsea Falls.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

TheNatureBoy said:


> There are zero videos on YouTube showing the bike in rugged terrain .
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


this is because of a few things:

1. people are afraid to ride them in those situations b/c of no squish
2. people are too busy riding them to take pics
3. people are too far out in the wilderness on them to send pics


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> this is because of a few things:
> 
> 1. people are afraid to ride them in those situations b/c of no squish
> 2. people are too busy riding them to take pics
> 3. people are too far out in the wilderness on them to send pics


Well said! Long live the Krampi, I say...


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Anyone sitting on a medium Moonlit Swamp green frameset? I've got an itch to swap my large frame for a medium.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

TheNatureBoy said:


> There are zero videos on YouTube showing the bike in rugged terrain .
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Thats because its difficult to catch them on video... Kinda like Bigfoot.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NYrr496 said:


> Thats because its difficult to catch them on video... Kinda like Bigfoot.


Didn't you get that part on Discovery Channel where they found Sasquatch...riding a Krampus or a fatty or sompin??


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

I can get a good deal on a 2018 barely ridden


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

TheNatureBoy said:


> I can get a good deal on a 2018 barely ridden
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Cool.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

BansheeRune said:


> Didn't you get that part on Discovery Channel where they found Sasquatch...riding a Krampus or a fatty or sompin??


That would be the coolest thing ever on tv.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

Anyone own a fat bike plus the Krampus ? Or overkill ?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Anyone own a fat bike plus the Krampus ? Or overkill ?


Depends on your needs, desires, and local conditions. I have two fatbikes plus a 29+. But my situation is not yours.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Anyone own a fat bike plus the Krampus ? Or overkill ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


anyone own a CX bike plus an all mountain bike, plus an enduro bike, plus a downhill bike? Or overkill?

just sayin'.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Anyone own a fat bike plus the Krampus ? Or overkill ?


No number of bikes is overkill. Even if you only have two and it's the same bike but set up differently. Still not redundant in my book.

More the merrier.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Anyone own a fat bike plus the Krampus ? Or overkill ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


How about two fat bikes and two Krampuses (Krampi?)? And I'm considering adding a third Krampus, at least temporarily. It's a sickness.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

cjbiker said:


> How about two fat bikes and two Krampuses (Krampi?)? And I'm considering adding a third Krampus, at least temporarily. It's a sickness.


I have two fatties and a Krampus. And a folder. And I want a Bridge Club.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

NYrr496 said:


> I have two fatties and a Krampus. And a folder. And I want a Bridge Club.


I'm with you on the Bridge Club. Looks like a great all-rounder bike.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

I found a shop somewhat nearby with an NOS medium Moonlit Swamp Krampus in stock. I'd want to swap my parts over to that frame, leaving me with a used large frame built with new stock parts to sell. I'm not excited about trying to sell a bike in this current situation, but it seems like a pretty good deal all around. Thoughts?


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

I think vik is looking for a large frame.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

I think vikb is looking for a large frame.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

Just picked up an 2018 XL today 

Nx is the only drawback 

What suspension fork is best for this ride thx


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

1spd1way said:


> I think vik is looking for a large frame.


Thanks for thinking of me. I ended up getting a custom built 29+ frame so I'm good. I am keeping the OG Green Krampus as a SS urban assault rig and the medium frame is fine for that mission.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

vikb said:


> Thanks for thinking of me. I ended up getting a custom built 29+ frame so I'm good. I am keeping the OG Green Krampus as a SS urban assault rig and the medium frame is fine for that mission.


Who made the custom-made what frame

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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Who made the custom-made what frame












Peter Daam built me a frame inspired by my Krampus, but made more aggressive for Coastal BC riding. I expected to use it bikepacking, but I have really loved just day to day trail riding on it....which I wasn't expecting. Before I got this bike I would have told you our trails weren't super hardtail friendly...I was wrong! 

Anyways I have a thread for that bike so we don't pollute the Krampus thread if you want more info:

https://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/daambuilt-mega-krampus-29-a-1113709.html


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

Badass 


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Just picked up an 2018 XL today
> *What suspension fork is best for this ride thx
> *


I run a 29+ Manitou Mattoc Pro 120 on mine, but you can use a Fox 34, RS Pike, or something else. Lots of forks clear big tires now.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

TheNatureBoy said:


> What suspension fork is best for this ride thx


I have a Rockshox Yari on mine. Works awesome.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

vikb said:


> Peter Daam built me a frame inspired by my Krampus, but made more aggressive for Coastal BC riding. I expected to use it bikepacking, but I have really loved just day to day trail riding on it....which I wasn't expecting. Before I got this bike I would have told you our trails weren't super hardtail friendly...I was wrong!
> 
> Anyways I have a thread for that bike so we don't pollute the Krampus thread if you want more info:
> 
> https://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/daambuilt-mega-krampus-29-a-1113709.html


Too late, Vik! :nono:


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

Does anybody run Jones bars on their bike ? How do they handle rough terrain and trails ?


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Does anybody run Jones bars on their bike ? How do they handle rough terrain and trails ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I have Jones bars on my first gen Krampus. They're comfortable for cruising around, but I prefer straighter bars for gnarly riding. There are people that shred with Jones bars, though. It's a matter of preference.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

cjbiker said:


> I have Jones bars on my first gen Krampus. They're comfortable for cruising around, but I prefer straighter bars for gnarly riding. There are people that shred with Jones bars, though. It's a matter of preference.


Same here. Jones bars are great for non-technical riding like the GDR. For real techy singetrack I'll take some sort of MTB riser bar. I like the SQ Labs 12 deg bars a lot.


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## Fat-in-Fundy (Feb 21, 2015)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Just picked up an 2018 XL today
> 
> Nx is the only drawback
> 
> ...


Be sure to post some pics after getting some dirt on the new ride, I'm Moonlit Swamp Green with envy after having to put my new Krampus plans on ice after the pandemic hit.


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Does anybody run Jones bars on their bike ? How do they handle rough terrain and trails ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I had a pair of Jones bars on a 27.5+ bike (including rigid and with front susp) that I used for just about everything. Loved them especially for longer rides, and where it's not just all tech singletrack. e.g. pedaling to and from a trailhead. I would say not the best if steep switchbacks are exclusively your thing but once I adjusted I think the jones bars are great for 90% of riding, provided you aren't some crazy downhiller type. I also like bars that are a little wider than 710mm, but I can't see how the jones could go wider without the sweep bringing them back too much.

I tried putting them back on my krampus recently, but am too lazy to switch out for longer cable housing due to the sweep. Currently, I'm running a pair of stooge moto bars that I really like from vic, with 17degree sweep and some good rise. I tend to like riser style bars more these days (I'm 6'3").

Next, I think I'd like bars between the jones and slightly swept bars like the Stooges, something in the 25-30 degree range. my GF has a pair of the newish surly terminal bars that have real nice geometry (and good price), but for me those would be awesome if they came in a ~780-800mm width.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

Fat-in-Fundy said:


> Be sure to post some pics after getting some dirt on the new ride, I'm Moonlit Swamp Green with envy after having to put my new Krampus plans on ice after the pandemic hit.


Perfectly great time to ride the bicycle .

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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

...


----------



## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

Guy.Ford said:


> Not really.
> 
> Not trying to be a Doug Downer but I implore anyone who thinks riding is being "socially conscious" to please read the following.
> 
> ...


Hmmm. It's an interesting and amusing bit of prose, but Uncle Dave seems cool with taking his dog to the park to play with other dogs and heading out to buy good beer.

Solo bike rides seem statistically safer to me. Particularly when factoring in the ROR (return on risk) in terms of exercise and sanity benefits. YMMV


----------



## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

...


----------



## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

...


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Umm, so about that KRAMPUS!


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Does anybody run Jones bars on their bike ? How do they handle rough terrain and trails ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro











I have em. After a few rides getting used to them, I can now ride the gnarliest trail with these bars. I can't ride with straight bars anymore. I broke my right forearm years ago and the doctor did a piss poor repair. My wrist hurts bad after a few hours on straight bars.


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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

NYrr496 said:


> View attachment 1321599
> 
> 
> I have em. After a few rides getting used to them, I can now ride the gnarliest trail with these bars. I can't ride with straight bars anymore. I broke my right forearm years ago and the doctor did a piss poor repair. My wrist hurts bad after a few hours on straight bars.


Wow thx 4 pic - they look so intriguing- I juu I just had my elbow reconstructed , tendons reattached.

I feel that jack hammer affect after awhile- I'm sure it'd take me awhile to get the feel of these on rough trails.

Thx !

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## TheNatureBoy (Aug 7, 2017)

Would this fork work ? 29 / 27.5+









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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Wow thx 4 pic - they look so intriguing- I juu I just had my elbow reconstructed , tendons reattached.
> 
> I feel that jack hammer affect after awhile- I'm sure it'd take me awhile to get the feel of these on rough trails.
> 
> ...


Between the bars and the foam grips, they definitely help. It did take a little getting used to. On the first two or three rides, I'd do a small jump over stuff and wind up off the trail in the trees. I'm all good now.


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## clinton (Mar 16, 2020)

I'm waiting on delivery of this. Thought about getting a Surly years ago, but went a different route. Took advantage of Surly's ship direct to house offer to save me from driving across the state to the closest Surly dealer. Cant wait!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

clinton said:


> I'm waiting on delivery of this. Thought about getting a Surly years ago, but went a different route. To advantage of Surly's ship direct to house offer to save me from driving across the state to the closest Surly dealer. Cant wait!


ahhh yes...full rigid blue happiness!!!


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## Coldwater (Sep 12, 2013)

Any one of you fellow newer Krampus (2018) owners running an XT 11 speed derailleur with a Sunrace MS8 (the all steel cassette) 11-46?

I just installed the Sunrace cassette after building a new wheelset and the derailleur arm converges (contacts) the chain when up shifting (chain moving outboard) into the very middle (6th) cog. This middle cog is a 24 tooth on the Sunrace and it was a 21 tooth on the XT cassette, so larger in size. 

I just ordered a Wolftooth Goatlink 11 speed which I hope solves the problem. Also, I have the Surly axle spacers installed which moves the axle back approximately 12 mm and it sits in the middle of the dropouts. The Surly spacers were needed to clear a 29x3 DHF on i40 rim. The spacers end up moving the cassette closer to the derailleur arm where the cable is fixed.

If anyone has experienced this and found a solution, I'd love to hear about it. Take care


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Coldwater said:


> Any one of you fellow newer Krampus (2018) owners running an XT 11 speed derailleur with a Sunrace MS8 (the all steel cassette) 11-46?
> 
> I just installed the Sunrace cassette after building a new wheelset and the derailleur arm converges (contacts) the chain when up shifting (chain moving outboard) into the very middle (6th) cog. This middle cog is a 24 tooth on the Sunrace and it was a 21 tooth on the XT cassette, so larger in size.
> 
> ...


Did you adjust the B screw? If it's all the way in, get the Wolf Tooth B screw too, it's much longer.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Coldwater said:


> Any one of you fellow newer Krampus (2018) owners running an XT 11 speed derailleur with a Sunrace MS8 (the all steel cassette) 11-46?
> 
> I just installed the Sunrace cassette after building a new wheelset and the derailleur arm converges (contacts) the chain when up shifting (chain moving outboard) into the very middle (6th) cog. This middle cog is a 24 tooth on the Sunrace and it was a 21 tooth on the XT cassette, so larger in size.
> 
> ...


I'm running the Sunrace 11-50 11spd cassette with Shimano derailleurs on two bikes. You need the Goatlink with that cassette. I'm running a Shimano 11-46 cassette and derailleur on my 2018 Krampus without a Goatlink, and it works fine. As OneSpeed said you need to fiddle with the B-tension screw to get it to work. Also, your chain can't be too long. One or two links (where one link is an inner and outer section!) longer than it takes to go around the chainring and largest cog without the derailleur. Any longer and it won't work well with these huge cassettes.

I ran a 3" DHR on a RaceFace ARC 45 without having to move the axle back. I'm surprised you need to with an i40 rim.


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## Coldwater (Sep 12, 2013)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Did you adjust the B screw? If it's all the way in, get the Wolf Tooth B screw too, it's much longer.


I haven't adjusted the B screw as it shifts to the largest 46 tooth cog well and has the recommended spacing between the upper derailleur pulley and largest cog. The cassette this is replacing is the Shimano XT 11-46, so the same gear range just the sixth cog is 3 teeth larger on the Sunrace. I'll look into it. I do have a longer B screw if necessary. Thank you!


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## Coldwater (Sep 12, 2013)

cjbiker said:


> I'm running the Sunrace 11-50 11spd cassette with Shimano derailleurs on two bikes. You need the Goatlink with that cassette. I'm running a Shimano 11-46 cassette and derailleur on my 2018 Krampus without a Goatlink, and it works fine. As OneSpeed said you need to fiddle with the B-tension screw to get it to work. Also, your chain can't be too long. One or two links (where one link is an inner and outer section!) longer than it takes to go around the chainring and largest cog without the derailleur. Any longer and it won't work well with these huge cassettes.
> 
> I ran a 3" DHR on a RaceFace ARC 45 without having to move the axle back. I'm surprised you need to with an i40 rim.


Thanks for the response. The bike shifted great with the XT 11-46 other than not loving the 37-46 jump at the two lowest gears, hence giving the Sunrace a try. I originally built the bike with rabbit holes and Chronicles and the clearance was super tight at the chain stays so I installed the Surly spacers. I think the problem is simply a combination of having to run the axle in the middle of the dropouts and the Sunrace cassette having a larger 6th cog than the XT.

I fitted my chain with one extra link and compared it to the chain I was replacing and it is one link longer but the chain I was replacing was sized before I added the Surly spacers so I thought maybe it was a touch short. Following your recommendation, maybe I should put the old (one link shorter) chain on and see if somehow it improves. But right now when shifting up into 6th cog the chain and derailleur arm just barely collide.

I definitely wish I could run the axle all the way forward but it is ridiculously tight at the knobs with the Chronicles on rabbit holes or DHF/DHR on wtb i40s without the axle spacers. I'm in Alaska, and while I don't choose to ride when it's wet, sometimes it happens and the clearance is needed.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Coldwater said:


> Thanks for the response. The bike shifted great with the XT 11-46 other than not loving the 37-46 jump at the two lowest gears, hence giving the Sunrace a try. I originally built the bike with rabbit holes and Chronicles and the clearance was super tight at the chain stays so I installed the Surly spacers. I think the problem is simply a combination of having to run the axle in the middle of the dropouts and the Sunrace cassette having a larger 6th cog than the XT.
> 
> I fitted my chain with one extra link and compared it to the chain I was replacing and it is one link longer but the chain I was replacing was sized before I added the Surly spacers so I thought maybe it was a touch short. Following your recommendation, maybe I should put the old (one link shorter) chain on and see if somehow it improves. But right now when shifting up into 6th cog the chain and derailleur arm just barely collide.
> 
> I definitely wish I could run the axle all the way forward but it is ridiculously tight at the knobs with the Chronicles on rabbit holes or DHF/DHR on wtb i40s without the axle spacers. I'm in Alaska, and while I don't choose to ride when it's wet, sometimes it happens and the clearance is needed.


I'd try adjusting the B screw before swapping chains.

Yes, clearance is really tight with true 3" tires on wide rims.


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## Coldwater (Sep 12, 2013)

cjbiker said:


> I'd try adjusting the B screw before swapping chains.
> 
> Yes, clearance is really tight with true 3" tires on wide rims.


I'll try subtle adjustments to the B screw and see if that works. If not, I'm hoping the Goatlink will solve the problem. I'm not too familiar with it but I think it is slightly longer than the Shimano derailleur link that's on there. Thanks for the help!


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Pinkbike actually wrote and article on the Krampus just now! Never thought I'd see the day.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/opinion-ode-to-an-oddball.html

Slightly annoyed it was mostly referred to as a gravel bike, but an interesting read nonetheless from an endurobro site.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Ya that's about as good as it gets for a site like PB. One of the editors said he was buying a hardtail on a recent PB podcast [something with modern enduro geo and suspension fork] the other editors said he a was an idiot and should stick to FS bikes. So you can imagine their thoughts on a steel HT with less than cutting edge geo.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

I have mixed feelings on that article. Yeah, I realize the context of where it's coming from, but the overall theme is "you can have fun on a POS bike!". I take exception to the Krampus is used as an example. Besides, mine stops quite well, and despite (or maybe because?) the fact that my stem is "only" 70mm, it goes right where I point it with no terror involved.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

cjbiker said:


> it goes right where I point it with no terror involved.


Yea, the terror part was funny. I've bombed so much gnarly **** on my rigid Krampus, at speed, and very seldom (won't say never) had a feeling of terror. My thought while reading this was that dude must not have the best technique what with being spoiled by gobs of travel.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

When I built my custom 29+ HT one of the things I was looking forward to was less terror than the time I threw my Krampus down the sides of mountains on bikepacking trips and trail rides. I made it happen, but the sketchiness was high at times.

That's not a criticism of the OG Krampus. That's just an acknowledgement that there are different tools for different jobs. I don't get pissed that my 5mm allen key doesn't undo every fastener on my bike. That's why I own more than one tool.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

vikb said:


> Ya that's about as good as it gets for a site like PB. One of the editors said he was buying a hardtail on a recent PB podcast [something with modern enduro geo and suspension fork] the other editors said he a was an idiot and should stick to FS bikes. So you can imagine their thoughts on a steel HT with less than cutting edge geo.


I've been wondering if their podcast was any good. Some of the topics looked kinda interesting. Really been looking for some good content now that "MTB Podcast" is apparently dead. Loved that show


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

DaddyFatStax said:


> I've been wondering if their podcast was any good. Some of the topics looked kinda interesting. Really been looking for some good content now that "MTB Podcast" is apparently dead. Loved that show


I wouldn't say the PB podcasts are amazing, but if you read their site it is interesting to get unscripted spontaneous feedback from them that you wouldn't see in a curated article. PB has their own slant/biases so you have to be okay with that. Personally listening to some enduro bros talk doesn't bother me one bit regardless of whether I jump on my FS enduro bike or my rigid SS steel MTB next.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

DaddyFatStax said:


> Pinkbike actually wrote and article on the Krampus just now! Never thought I'd see the day.
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/opinion-ode-to-an-oddball.html
> 
> Slightly annoyed it was mostly referred to as a gravel bike, but an interesting read nonetheless from an endurobro site.


With Chronicles, it is a GG, swap those out for some good tires and then you're cookin' with gas!

By the commentaries, it looks like pinkybike hasn't changed either.


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

Yeah I saw that pop up on pinkbike and definitely a cool article to see. While the author does a nice job for the most part (and refreshing content from PB), a few points I have to disagree with. Even in the stock build ~$1500 rigid is not necessarily entry level for a lot of folks. Stock brakes have worked fine, NX groupset isn't anything special but works well enough for now (can upgrade over time) - there are $3k+ 'budget' full susp bikes nowadays that come with NX. I think surly even offers a suspension fork model now? I've taken mine (newer geo krampus) both in rigid mode and with a suspension fork down some real rough terrain, and can easily keep up with enduro bro friends esp with the suspension. And tires, keep those stock DWs on and those are some serious treaded tires that grip to just about anything. Current mode in rigid + dropper + 50mm stem (not the stock 80mm) has proven pretty capable. 29+ is not a replacement for full suspension, but given I don't own one, nor am interested in going ripping fast down rough terrain, the krampus is a pretty good all arounder, not a budget-only ride!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Perhaps a Krampus Konvention should be thought of for all the Krampi to get together and be represented, post cooties-19, of course.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

BansheeRune said:


> Perhaps a Krampus Konvention should be thought of for all the Krampi to get together and be represented, post cooties-19, of course.


that would be sweet!! Sort of like Sturgis, but not as loud


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> that would be sweet!! Sort of like Sturgis, but not as loud


I think it could be very kewl for the Krampus owners to have a good time getting together, BBQ, Burrs, ice cold burrs and loud muzak, bonfire with a jump over it, tons of Surly Steel and peeps sharing the greatness of good community, good bike time with such an awesome bike breed everywhere!!

IF something like that were to happen, this thread would nuke the server in minutes!:thumbsup:


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

BansheeRune said:


> I think it could be very kewl for the Krampus owners to have a good time getting together, BBQ, Burrs, ice cold burrs and loud muzak, bonfire with a jump over it, tons of Surly Steel and peeps sharing the greatness of good community, good bike time with such an awesome bike breed everywhere!!
> 
> IF something like that were to happen, this thread would nuke the server in minutes!:thumbsup:


yep...would be cool to go somewhere central to do it....like in the early summer...maybe somewhere in Minnesota?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> yep...would be cool to go somewhere central to do it....like in the early summer...maybe somewhere in Minnesota?


Wherevuh! But I hope to have planted a seed here.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Just a Krampus photo









Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

One more









Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Over this past weekend I swapped the Cane Creek 40 headset in my Krampus for a Hellbender 70 basically because it says Hellbender on it. Just looks cooler. I also swapped the white S on my headtube for a black one. Looks way cooler.


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## SourWortBrewer (Jul 11, 2013)

*ISO: Large OG Moonlit Swamp Krampus Frameset*

I have a OG Krampus, bought as stock complete build, over the years every part except the crank arms has been replaced and now it is SS.

So I am looking for a frame to put the stock parts back on.

I search Pinkbike, Ebay, and craigslist just about every day...

Anyone out there have connections or a frame collecting dust, looking for a Large.

Thanks,
Matt


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

so i know this was discussed years ago as Boost came around, and I didn't pay attention to the talk b/c I didn't need to, but I am now looking to get a new cassette for my 2015 Surly Krampus. 

I used the search function, and as always, it led me down an hour long tour of a million posts with the words Surly; Krampus; cassette, but nothing to do with my question

What is good to look for/compatible to this bike? I am curious to get a larger low gear cog, but don't know if I want to go all the way to 50 tooth...

just looking for some direction here. Would also like to make this my first venture into replacing and dealing with the rear end of the drive train. Need to learn about that!


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> so i know this was discussed years ago as Boost came around, and I didn't pay attention to the talk b/c I didn't need to, but I am now looking to get a new cassette for my 2015 Surly Krampus.
> 
> I used the search function, and as always, it led me down an hour long tour of a million posts with the words Surly; Krampus; cassette, but nothing to do with my question
> 
> ...


You have some options.
First if you mention what you have it will be easier to talk about your situation.
-If you go to 46 instead of 50 an 11 speeds will do with a cassette of 11-46.
-You must take into account if your smallest is 10 or 11 teeth.

In my case my power is very low. I bought a bike 3 years ago with an 11 speeds SRAM, that was top of the line, the cassette is 10-42. I simply used it for a month to be sure than i replaced the front 32 with a 28 and BINGO that good bike for me became a GREAT bike for me. Many told me i would get used to it or to go for a 30. 
If you know what you want there are lots of options. My switch was easy and affordable. But for my fat i simply switched my 10 speeds cassette 11-36 for a 11-42 and again it is just what i enjoy and was also affordable.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> so i know this was discussed years ago as Boost came around, and I didn't pay attention to the talk b/c I didn't need to, but I am now looking to get a new cassette for my 2015 Surly Krampus.
> 
> I used the search function, and as always, it led me down an hour long tour of a million posts with the words Surly; Krampus; cassette, but nothing to do with my question
> 
> ...


I have an 11 speed Shimano cassette on my Krampus with 11-42. 30 tooth chain ring. I like that combo a lot. Works perfectly for me on my Krampus. 
Now... A few months ago, I built myself a new Ice Cream Truck. I figured since this is a fresh build and my last fat bike was 2x10, I'd go 12 speed this time. Hope had just gotten the green light to manufacture the Shimano Microspline driver so I bought one and got myself a 12 speed, 11-51 XT cassette. I immediately hated it. The gear steps on the bigger cogs sucked and I could never find my sweet spot. I learned that they also make an 11-45 or 46 cassette so I got that and now I'm much happier with it but now, that I have that cassette on there, I could have saved some money and gone with 11 speed. The 11 speed stuff on the Krampus shifts better than the 12 speed on the ICT too. Live and learn.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

NYrr496 said:


> I have an 11 speed Shimano cassette on my Krampus with 11-42. 30 tooth chain ring. I like that combo a lot. Works perfectly for me on my Krampus.
> Now... A few months ago, I built myself a new Ice Cream Truck. I figured since this is a fresh build and my last fat bike was 2x10, I'd go 12 speed this time. Hope had just gotten the green light to manufacture the Shimano Microspline driver so I bought one and got myself a 12 speed, 11-51 XT cassette. I immediately hated it. The gear steps on the bigger cogs sucked and I could never find my sweet spot. I learned that they also make an 11-45 or 46 cassette so I got that and now I'm much happier with it but now, that I have that cassette on there, I could have saved some money and gone with 11 speed. The 11 speed stuff on the Krampus shifts better than the 12 speed on the ICT too. Live and learn.


Ya i am with you. I like proven old stuck. My fat is a 2017 20 speeds, just great.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

33red said:


> You have some options.
> First if you mention what you have it will be easier to talk about your situation.
> -If you go to 46 instead of 50 an 11 speeds will do with a cassette of 11-46.
> -You must take into account if your smallest is 10 or 11 teeth.
> ...





NYrr496 said:


> I have an 11 speed Shimano cassette on my Krampus with 11-42. 30 tooth chain ring. I like that combo a lot. Works perfectly for me on my Krampus.
> Now... A few months ago, I built myself a new Ice Cream Truck. I figured since this is a fresh build and my last fat bike was 2x10, I'd go 12 speed this time. Hope had just gotten the green light to manufacture the Shimano Microspline driver so I bought one and got myself a 12 speed, 11-51 XT cassette. I immediately hated it. The gear steps on the bigger cogs sucked and I could never find my sweet spot. I learned that they also make an 11-45 or 46 cassette so I got that and now I'm much happier with it but now, that I have that cassette on there, I could have saved some money and gone with 11 speed. The 11 speed stuff on the Krampus shifts better than the 12 speed on the ICT too. Live and learn.


awesome info guys!! So I won't have to get any "adapters" or anything?

And my current chainring is a 28 so I am excited to see what the 11-42 does. I ride mostly in Ohio and Michigan, so we are talking short, punchy climbs, and rocky rooty terrain. I am really wanting some thigh that will handle that kind of riding.

And going with what NYrr496 is saying, I wonder how the shifting to that huge cog is...seems like it would be clunky...but it seems pretty common any more.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Massive increments between gears is hard on derailleurs, especially with hard shifts under severe load. Many folks are doing the wide range cassette thing and finding it works well for their uses.
Some RD's do not like the large change at the low end but the high end is fairly traditional. One item to watch for is RD range of teeth it can handle. A short cage cannot handle as large a range as can a medium cage. A long cage is needed for the pizza pan cogs some cassettes are using these days.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

BansheeRune said:


> Massive increments between gears is hard on derailleurs, especially with hard shifts under severe load. Many folks are doing the wide range cassette thing and finding it works well for their uses.
> Some RD's do not like the large change at the low end but the high end is fairly traditional. One item to watch for is RD range of teeth it can handle. A short cage cannot handle as large a range as can a medium cage. A long cage is needed for the pizza pan cogs some cassettes are using these days.


Any rider should avoid heavy load shifting.
I mean if your sponsors do not supply you with goodies.
I will not tell racers what to do.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

33red said:


> Any rider should avoid heavy load shifting.
> I mean if your sponsors do not supply you with goodies.
> I will not tell racers what to do.


Folks grunting a climb do a hard shift routinely. It is very hard on the equipment...
I still have a refurbished XT in service 20 years following its overhaul. Not going to complain on that one! I dug up two from my bin and made one remanufactured RD. I might have Jinxed the damn thing 33red...


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

BansheeRune said:


> Folks grunting a climb do a hard shift routinely. It is very hard on the equipment...
> I still have a refurbished XT in service 20 years following its overhaul. Not going to complain on that one! I dug up two from my bin and made one remanufactured RD. I might have Jinxed the damn thing 33red...


I had a xtr 2000, just a great 27 speeds, never a problem.
I sold it because of the 26 tires 2 years ago but i still use the saddle and post.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

33red said:


> Any rider should avoid heavy load shifting.
> I mean if your sponsors do not supply you with goodies.
> I will not tell racers what to do.





BansheeRune said:


> Folks grunting a climb do a hard shift routinely. It is very hard on the equipment...
> I still have a refurbished XT in service 20 years following its overhaul. Not going to complain on that one! I dug up two from my bin and made one remanufactured RD. I might have Jinxed the damn thing 33red...


yeah. i try to get in the optimum gear for the climb as I go into it. Even if I have to granny gear a bit leading up to it. And honestly, if it gets going too bad, i will stop and walk before I change with too much strain on the system. I hate the straining popping sound of of "under pressure" changes


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

So last weekend my fifteen year old, who is about an inch and a half shorter than I am, asked to ride my Krampus on our trail ride. He needs an XL and currently rides a Large. 
He was like an unstoppable monster on that bike. I had a little trouble keeping up on my fattie.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> yeah. i try to get in the optimum gear for the climb as I go into it. Even if I have to granny gear a bit leading up to it. And honestly, if it gets going too bad, i will stop and walk before I change with too much strain on the system. I hate the straining popping sound of of "under pressure" changes


Prollem solved...








One speed automatic with air conditioning, standard!


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

BansheeRune said:


> Prollem solved...
> 
> View attachment 1344871
> 
> One speed automatic with air conditioning, standard!


Now THAT'S a frame color! Ka-Pow!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Now THAT'S a frame color! Ka-Pow!


Tennis Ball Yellow for the win!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

BansheeRune said:


> Prollem solved...
> 
> View attachment 1344871
> 
> One speed automatic with air conditioning, standard!


what kind of bike is that?


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

NYrr496 said:


> View attachment 1344843
> 
> 
> So last weekend my fifteen year old, who is about an inch and a half shorter than I am, asked to ride my Krampus on our trail ride. He needs an XL and currently rides a Large.
> He was like an unstoppable monster on that bike. I had a little trouble keeping up on my fattie.


also looks like he knows the international teen age greeting sign!! The Tradition lives on...


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> also looks like he knows the international teen age greeting sign!! The Tradition lives on...


Yep. He found a bunch of pictures of me doing it and now every time I point a camera at him, that is what I get.


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## tri-tele (Jun 18, 2009)

That is one of the best family traditions I’ve heard of! 😂


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NYrr496 said:


> View attachment 1344843
> 
> 
> So last weekend my fifteen year old, who is about an inch and a half shorter than I am, asked to ride my Krampus on our trail ride. He needs an XL and currently rides a Large.
> He was like an unstoppable monster on that bike. I had a little trouble keeping up on my fattie.


Universal sign language! Good one NYrr...



str8edgMTBMXer said:


> what kind of bike is that?


RSD MiddleChild. My pithy little dirt ripper! This frame is ideal as geared or one speed automatic! My preference at the moment is SS.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

TheNatureBoy said:


> Is the krampus more bike packing? Where the karate monkey is more trails?
> 
> Like what is the express use for the Krampus ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


The Krampus is a trail smashing monster. I would take it over a KM anyday as it can take proper big tyres.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I had the same problem running a 10 speed 11-42 cassette (Zee wide range mech) with the Monkey Nuts installed (wheel set back in the dropouts). Without the monkey nuts (wheel slammed forward) the mech clears the cassette. I did manage to take a grinder to the mech which solved the problem but run the wheel slammed forward when i'm running gears (i'm usually on single speed).


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Does anyone know what happened to the 20lb Krampus build? Did this happen? (apologies in advance if this has been posted as I haven't been on the thread in a while).


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

fartymarty said:


> Does anyone know what happened to the 20lb Krampus build? Did this happen? (apologies in advance if this has been posted as I haven't been on the thread in a while).


Is this the one? Surly Krampus Super Bike - Riding With Ron


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

It wasn't but have read that one before - thanks for the link it was good to re-read. 

IIRC there was someone on this thread talking of building a sub 20 or 22lb Krampus. There was a little discussion on whether it was possible with the general consensus being it should be given careful component picking.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

fartymarty said:


> It wasn't but have read that one before - thanks for the link it was good to re-read.
> 
> IIRC there was someone on this thread talking of building a sub 20 or 22lb Krampus. There was a little discussion on whether it was possible with the general consensus being it should be given careful component picking.


Dropping weight is a simple thing, but we have to know what we do not want.
For me i want a 120mm suspension, at least 29x2.3 tires or 27.5x2.8 and a wide range transmission.
Some are OK with single speed, no suspension...
Some feel the need for a dropper, so my minimum is 21 pounds but i am a light rider for others 26 is their minimum


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

fartymarty said:


> It wasn't but have read that one before - thanks for the link it was good to re-read.
> 
> IIRC there was someone on this thread talking of building a sub 20 or 22lb Krampus. There was a little discussion on whether it was possible with the general consensus being it should be given careful component picking.


Wow, mine was 25 lbs on the dot. Large gen 1 with a carver xc470 all carbon fork, Dt240s laced with supercomps to rabbit holes, tubeless knards, XTR cranks, king bb, king headset, XT brakes, Lynsey ti post, wtb devo saddle. 959 pedals. Heavy carver ti prybar and Thomson 80mm stem. Single speed. And two, boat anchor surly tugnuts.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

Hi!

I've been thinking about building a Krampus. Currently I have a gravel bike that I ride on pavement, dirt roads, singletrack, gravel. It's great on pavement, it's great on super smooth dirt roads and gravel. I can ride stuff like rocky singletrack with it, and "surprise MTBs" (which is I think the cool thing to say in gravel circles) but it's torture. Even if a dirt road is a bit bumpy, the bike will rattle my brains out. I don't look forward to descending, because descending means holding on for dear life and praying that I won't dent my rims, because my 43mm tyres will bottom out at 30psi even if I hit a leaf wrong. 

My question is mainly about geo. The last time I had an MTB, it had 26" tyres, V brakes, single pivot rear suspension and a 9spd drivetrain. I've been following MTB since then, and seen all the fuss about progressive geo, long, slack, steep etc. but never tried a bike like that. TBH I don't even remember how my old MTB handled. I do remember that the bars felt too narrow.  
Where I live the terrain is super mellow. 70% of my riding consists of riding on logging roads, and dirt roads next to corn fields. Steep singletrack is very rare. It's usually gradual uphills and downhills with a few steep sections.
From what I see the Krampus has quite conservative geo. Do you guys think I would benefit from new school geo, or would it be completely pointless for the type of riding I do? Does newschool geo work for long days out in the saddle? Are there any other rigid steel frames I should be looking at? I don't want to spend more than what the Krampus frameset costs. For a start i've been thinking about going rigid, but I want the option to run a sus fork.

The build plan I threw together:
Deore 1x12 drivetrain 
Hope Fortus 35 wheels
Vittoria Barzo 2.6 tyres (dunno if I want to go plus, but I wouldn't mind a frame that can do it in case I want to try it in the future, hence the Krampus. I'm 185cm so i'd like to try big wheels)
Sqlabs bars with lot's of backsweep, ESI silicone grips
Some kind of cheap dropper


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

HollyBoni said:


> Hi!
> 
> I've been thinking about building a Krampus. Currently I have a gravel bike that I ride on pavement, dirt roads, singletrack, gravel. It's great on pavement, it's great on super smooth dirt roads and gravel. I can ride stuff like rocky singletrack with it, and "surprise MTBs" (which is I think the cool thing to say in gravel circles) but it's torture. Even if a dirt road is a bit bumpy, the bike will rattle my brains out. I don't look forward to descending, because descending means holding on for dear life and praying that I won't dent my rims, because my 43mm tyres will bottom out at 30psi even if I hit a leaf wrong.
> 
> ...


I'm using a Krampus currently as a bikepacking bike for roughly 70-80% smooth/rough pavement and 20-30% gravel/double-track/singletrack. I don't think it would be advantageous to go any more progressive with the geo for the riding you are describing. It's relatively conservative by modern standards, but is very progressive compared to anything from the 26" v-brake era. I'm using vittoria mezcal 2.6 rear, and bomboloni 3.0 front on sun Mulefut i45 rims. Also using sq-labs sweep bars. I'd recommend considering the mezcal for the rear. It would be a good combo with a front 2.6 barzo, and will wear better and roll faster on pavement than a barzo rear. I've got 2000km on mine now and the center tread is only halfway worn.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

HollyBoni said:


> Where I live the terrain is super mellow. 70% of my riding consists of riding on logging roads, and dirt roads next to corn fields. Steep singletrack is very rare. It's usually gradual uphills and downhills with a few steep sections.
> From what I see the Krampus has quite conservative geo. Do you guys think I would benefit from new school geo, or would it be completely pointless for the type of riding I do? Does newschool geo work for long days out in the saddle? Are there any other rigid steel frames I should be looking at? I don't want to spend more than what the Krampus frameset costs. For a start i've been thinking about going rigid, but I want the option to run a sus fork.


I have an OG green Krampus and a year ago I built a custom bike based on the Krampus, but with aggressive modern geo. I'll ride BC black diamond trails on it, bikepack as well as cruise the bikepaths.

The Krampus has conservative geo for what I would call a modern aggressive hardtail, but it's not conservative compared to your older 26er. Based on what you describe as your type of riding I wouldn't hesitate to get a rigid Krampus. 

I've ridden my OG Krampus on all sorts of terrain and it's fun bike for mellow terrain and covering distance.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

HollyBoni said:


> Hi!
> 
> I've been thinking about building a Krampus. Currently I have a gravel bike that I ride on pavement, dirt roads, singletrack, gravel. It's great on pavement, it's great on super smooth dirt roads and gravel. I can ride stuff like rocky singletrack with it, and "surprise MTBs" (which is I think the cool thing to say in gravel circles) but it's torture. Even if a dirt road is a bit bumpy, the bike will rattle my brains out. I don't look forward to descending, because descending means holding on for dear life and praying that I won't dent my rims, because my 43mm tyres will bottom out at 30psi even if I hit a leaf wrong.
> 
> ...


The head tube angle on the Krampus is 69 degrees. Older mountain bikes were steeper, around 72 degrees and based on road geometry. The modern trail and downhill bikes might be 67, 65, or even something like 63 degrees to put the center of gravity closer to the rear wheel, and absorb more shock through the front on downhills. Taking that setup to the road can make the handling feel off.

The Krampus is a conservative mix that shreds on the trail, but also works well on the road. My Karate Monkey laughs at gravel and spits it out. And my terrain is similar. I'm at sea level and tech terrain is limited to maritime forested dunes. Which is actually very good, but it's not easy to get to.

My only caveat is to say you may be just as happy on a karate monkey, the only difference being slightly smaller plus wheels at 27.5, and the option to run regular 29" wheels. The massive 29+ wheels certainly are a blast, but are not as nimble as the smaller size. I had 29" 35 mm rims with 2.4" tires on mine until recently, and I upgraded to 27.5" 45 mm rims with 2.8" tires. I feel a lot more confident in tight spaces, now.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Muirenn said:


> The head tube angle in the Krampus is 69 degrees. Older mountain bikes were steeper, around 72 degrees and based on road geometry. The modern trail and downhill bikes might be 67, 65, or even something like 63 degrees to put the center of gravity closer to the rear wheel, and absorb more shock thought the front on downhills. The Krampus is a conservative mix that shreds on the trail, but also works well on the road. My Karate Monkey laughs at gravel and spits it out. And my terrain is similar. I'm at sea level and tech terrain is limited for maritime forested dunes. Which is actually very good, but it's not easy to get to. My only caveat is to say you may be just as happy in a karate monkey, the only difference being slightly smaller plus wheels at 27.5, and the option to run regular 29" wheels. The massive 29+ wheels certainly are a blast, but are not as nimble as the smaller size. I had 29" 35 mm rims with 2.4" tires on mine until recently, and I upgraded to 27.5" 45 mm rims with 2.8" tires. I feel a lot more confident in tight spaces, now.


They're almost the same frame, with the main difference being that the Krampus has slightly longer stays and a lower bottom bracket. You can use a 29x2.4 on a Krampus and a 29x3 on a km, with the main difference being the bb height. For a mix of road, gravel, and relatively easy trails, I'll take the lower bb every time without hesitation.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

GT87 said:


> They're almost the same frame, with the main difference being that the Krampus has slightly longer stays and a lower bottom bracket. You can use a 29x2.4 on a Krampus and a 29x3 on a km, with the main difference being the bb height. For a mix of road, gravel, and relatively easy trails, I'll take the lower bb every time without hesitation.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


I have heard that. But I had a '15 Krampus with those same 35 mm wheels, and I had to get a larger frame set and switched out for a monkey. The older Krampus (and KM's) had such high bottom brackets compared to my 18 KM it was bizarre. The (relatively) low bb on the KM was quite a relief. I have seen people putting 29+ on the bike, and wondered how well it worked in that regard.

Oh, and like HollyB, I originally rode my CC over single track.


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Muirenn said:


> I have heard that. But I had a '15 Krampus with those same 35 mm wheels, and I had to get a larger frame set and switched out for a monkey. The older Krampus (and KM's) had such high bottom brackets compared to my 18 KM it was bizarre. The (relatively) low bb on the KM was quite a relief. I have seen people putting 29+ on the bike, and wondered how well it worked in that regard.


I'm comparing the most recent generation of km and Krampus. Km probably doesn't work that great with 29+, but I'm just making the point that there doesn't seem to be an issue with clearance, it's all about the bb. Main reason to go with the km would be if you want the shortest stays possible or you want to run 27" wheels for some reason.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## GT87 (Mar 18, 2014)

Muirenn said:


> I have heard that. But I had a '15 Krampus with those same 35 mm wheels, and I had to get a larger frame set and switched out for a monkey. The older Krampus (and KM's) had such high bottom brackets compared to my 18 KM it was bizarre. The (relatively) low bb on the KM was quite a relief. I have seen people putting 29+ on the bike, and wondered how well it worked in that regard.


I'm comparing the most recent generation of km and Krampus. Km probably doesn't work that great with 29+, but I'm just making the point that there doesn't seem to be an issue with clearance, it's all about the bb. Main reason to go with the km would be if you want the shortest stays possible or you want to run 27" or 29x2.1ish" wheels for some reason. For a bikepacking bike with 29x2.4"+ tires Krampus all the way.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

HollyBoni said:


> Hi!
> 
> I've been thinking about building a Krampus. Currently I have a gravel bike that I ride on pavement, dirt roads, singletrack, gravel. It's great on pavement, it's great on super smooth dirt roads and gravel. I can ride stuff like rocky singletrack with it, and "surprise MTBs" (which is I think the cool thing to say in gravel circles) but it's torture. Even if a dirt road is a bit bumpy, the bike will rattle my brains out. I don't look forward to descending, because descending means holding on for dear life and praying that I won't dent my rims, because my 43mm tyres will bottom out at 30psi even if I hit a leaf wrong.
> 
> ...





GT87 said:


> They're almost the same frame, with the main difference being that the Krampus has slightly longer stays and a lower bottom bracket. You can use a 29x2.4 on a Krampus and a 29x3 on a km, with the main difference being the bb height. For a mix of road, gravel, and relatively easy trails, I'll take the lower bb every time without hesitation.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk





GT87 said:


> I'm comparing the most recent generation of km and Krampus. Km probably doesn't work that great with 29+, but I'm just making the point that there doesn't seem to be an issue with clearance, it's all about the bb. Main reason to go with the km would be if you want the shortest stays possible or you want to run 27" or 29x2.1ish" wheels for some reason. For a bikepacking bike with 29x2.4"+ tires Krampus all the way.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


The two bikes are similar enough that it would be a waste to have both, I think. I actually want a Wednesday, but that will be later.

My point on the 27.5+ is that Holly is doing essentially what I did, and I really do like that wheel size. It was just a thought.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

Thanks for the replies everyone! 

I've been looking at the KM as well. I like the colour options on the KM more, that's for sure.  At this point i'm daydreaming tho, it's gonna be a while until I can build the bike. 
Do you guys know when the new models usually come out, in the fall?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

@ HollyBoni the geo is hard to discuss just like bike selection.
My legs need a large and a small is great for my torso. The result is you might hate a bike i love because our bone structure might be very different so idealy you barrow a bike for a good 2 hours to give it a real test.
- For a good do it all bike i suggest a 29x2.3 HT with 100-120mm.
- An other i would consider for your use would be rigid but on 27.5x2.8
All my bikes are confortable to ride 4 hours each day. I use a position with my head and shoulders quite high and i just put more weight on the handlebar when needed.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

HollyBoni said:


> Do you guys know when the new models usually come out, in the fall?


Surly doesn't do model years. New bikes can come out anytime or not for a long while.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

HollyBoni said:


> Hi!
> 
> I've been thinking about building a Krampus. Currently I have a gravel bike that I ride on pavement, dirt roads, singletrack, gravel. It's great on pavement, it's great on super smooth dirt roads and gravel. I can ride stuff like rocky singletrack with it, and "surprise MTBs" (which is I think the cool thing to say in gravel circles) but it's torture. Even if a dirt road is a bit bumpy, the bike will rattle my brains out. I don't look forward to descending, because descending means holding on for dear life and praying that I won't dent my rims, because my 43mm tyres will bottom out at 30psi even if I hit a leaf wrong.
> 
> ...


My 2 pence worth (for what it's worth)...

I have an OG Krampus (Large) set up rigid single speed with a -2 degree headset and 2.3 - 2.5 tyres. My other bike is an XL Starling Murmur (515 reach, 64.5HA, 76 SA - fairly progressive geo full sus bike). I ride in Surrey, UK.

Whilst my bikes are very different (apart from seated reach which is very similar) I can still ride the same trails on the Krampus that I ride on the Murmur albeit a lot slower.

I would recommend a Krampus to anyone as they are an awesome and very versatile bike. If I had to give up one bike it wouldn't be the Krampus.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

fartymarty said:


> My 2 pence worth (for what it's worth)...
> 
> I have an OG Krampus (Large) set up rigid single speed with a -2 degree headset and 2.3 - 2.5 tyres. My other bike is an XL Starling Murmur (515 reach, 64.5HA, 76 SA - fairly progressive geo full sus bike). I ride in Surrey, UK.
> 
> ...


Thanks. TBH I don't care that much about going fast, and if I go for ~4 hour ride, i'll descend for like 5 minutes.  I just read all this stuff about new geo, and some people talk about it like you can't pedal uphill without a steep STA, and you can't go downhill without a slack HTA. I just don't know how much of it is true and how much of it is BS, since I have no personal experience, and I also think that my off road rides are much more mellow due to the terrain compared to how a lot of people ride. I wish I could ride gnarly singletrack for hours, but that doesn't really exist here.



vikb said:


> Surly doesn't do model years. New bikes can come out anytime or not for a long while.


Dang, didn't know that.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

But I did hear the KM’s were supposed to release new colors, soon. And it’s been awhile for the Krampus. If you call Intergalactic Surly Headquarters, and ask, they will give you hints. Just tell them you are thinking of a Krampus, but don’t like the colors, and wondered if any new would be coming out soon.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

HollyBoni said:


> Thanks. TBH I don't care that much about going fast, and if I go for ~4 hour ride, i'll descend for like 5 minutes.  I just read all this stuff about new geo, and some people talk about it like you can't pedal uphill without a steep STA, and you can't go downhill without a slack HTA. I just don't know how much of it is true and how much of it is BS, since I have no personal experience, and I also think that my off road rides are much more mellow due to the terrain compared to how a lot of people ride. I wish I could ride gnarly singletrack for hours, but that doesn't really exist here.
> 
> Dang, didn't know that.


The Krampus is pretty conservative geometry wise, but it works quite well. The STA is much less of an issue on a hardtail compared to a modern geo full suspension bike.

It's a great XC bike you can ride all day. Really about the only thing I would want to change is the Reach on my bike. It's a little short compared to my more 'modern' progressive bikes. Other than that it's pretty awesome.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

*OneSpeed* said:


> The Krampus is pretty conservative geometry wise, but it works quite well. The STA is much less of an issue on a hardtail compared to a modern geo full suspension bike.
> 
> It's a great XC bike you can ride all day. Really about the only thing I would want to change is the Reach on my bike. It's a little short compared to my more 'modern' progressive bikes. Other than that it's pretty awesome.


Thanks. After drop bar geo and toe overlap i'm sure any MTB is going to feel great. :lol:


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

HollyBoni said:


> Thanks. After drop bar geo and toe overlap i'm sure any MTB is going to feel great. :lol:


I have that issue, too.


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

And by the way, my KM is a single speed. Works well for the terrain.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

vikb said:


> I have an OG green Krampus and a year ago I built a custom bike based on the Krampus, but with aggressive modern geo. I'll ride BC black diamond trails on it, bikepack as well as cruise the bikepaths.
> 
> The Krampus has conservative geo for what I would call a modern aggressive hardtail, but it's not conservative compared to your older 26er. Based on what you describe as your type of riding I wouldn't hesitate to get a rigid Krampus.
> 
> I've ridden my OG Krampus on all sorts of terrain and it's fun bike for mellow terrain and covering distance.


same here...it is my only mtb....Mean Green

was gonna suggest possibly going to 40mm or 45mm rims for more versatility in tire choice...


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> same here...it is my only mtb....Mean Green
> 
> was gonna suggest possibly going to 40mm or 45mm rims for more versatility in tire choice...


Yeah i'm kinda lost when it comes to rim width and tyre size. My last MTB had 2.2-2.3 tyres on 17mm ID rims.  I know that I would like to try something wider than 2.2-2.3s because why not. But based on no personal experience at all, i'm a bit "afraid" of going full plus for some reason. I wish I could demo stuff but I live in a not very mountain bike-y country (plain old XC bikes are the most popular here by far, and there is no one in the country that sells Surly stuff either).

I haven't done a lot of research but i'm also having a bit of trouble finding wheelsets with rims wider than 30mm (suggestions welcome). I found the Hope Fortus 35 which looks good, and costs around €470 (I live in Europe). That's about as much as I would like to spend. I played around with wheel builds on a few sites, but if I use name brand hubs, the wheels always end up costing over ~€600 which is a bit too much for me. (There is no shop around me that I would trust to build a wheelset like this)


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

HollyBoni said:


> Yeah i'm kinda lost when it comes to rim width and tyre size. My last MTB had 2.2-2.3 tyres on 17mm ID rims.  I know that I would like to try something wider than 2.2-2.3s because why not. But based on no personal experience at all, i'm a bit "afraid" of going full plus for some reason. I wish I could demo stuff but I live in a not very mountain bike-y country (and plain old XC bikes are the most popular here by far. There is no one in the country that sells Surly stuff).
> 
> I haven't done a lot of research but i'm also having a bit of trouble finding wheelsets with rims wider than 30mm (suggestions welcome). I found the Hope Fortus 35 which looks good, and costs around €470 (I live in Europe). That's about as much as I would like to spend. I played around with wheel builds on a few sites, but if I use name brand hubs, the wheels always end up costing over ~€600 which is a bit too much for me. (There is no shop around me that I would trust to build a wheelset like this)


My solution is i prefer my 29x2.3 on tiny rims for dry summer rides and for a change or after rain(more grip) 27.5x2.8 on 35-40 rims. Just 2 bikes plus my fat for winter, snow/ice. Find a used one, you can resell with a small lost if you do not like it.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

33red said:


> Find a used one, you can resell with a small lost if you do not like it.


I just checked the two biggest used bike sites in the country, and found 4 plus bikes for sale in total. I think it would be too risky. What really sell here are 3-4-5+ year old mid level XC hardtails (and road bikes) and new trends are slow to catch on.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

HollyBoni said:


> Yeah i'm kinda lost when it comes to rim width and tyre size. My last MTB had 2.2-2.3 tyres on 17mm ID rims.  I know that I would like to try something wider than 2.2-2.3s because why not. But based on no personal experience at all, i'm a bit "afraid" of going full plus for some reason. I wish I could demo stuff but I live in a not very mountain bike-y country (plain old XC bikes are the most popular here by far, and there is no one in the country that sells Surly stuff either).
> 
> I haven't done a lot of research but i'm also having a bit of trouble finding wheelsets with rims wider than 30mm (suggestions welcome). I found the Hope Fortus 35 which looks good, and costs around €470 (I live in Europe). That's about as much as I would like to spend. I played around with wheel builds on a few sites, but if I use name brand hubs, the wheels always end up costing over ~€600 which is a bit too much for me. (There is no shop around me that I would trust to build a wheelset like this)


At this point, learning the fine art of wheel building is in order. It is nothing more than a puzzle as opposed to rocket science.
Rims that are silly narrow for the tire require too much pressure to keep the tire on the rim for my taste. Some folks love the knife edge it makes of tires.

I have been on plus with 3.0's on i45's for quite some time and find it very enjoyable. On the trail with all those lovely banked turns, I have heard folks make comments about plus being slow and handling poorly as I passed em on a singlespeed plus. Laying that plusser down and railing the turns disproved the sentiment by that bloke.

Rims, check some of the larger web stores both in the US and Europe. Their wide selection of rims can be an easy method to finding the rim you are looking for.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

BansheeRune said:


> At this point, learning the fine art of wheel building is in order. It is nothing more than a puzzle as opposed to rocket science.
> Rims that are silly narrow for the tire require too much pressure to keep the tire on the rim for my taste. Some folks love the knife edge it makes of tires.
> 
> I have been on plus with 3.0's on i45's for quite some time and find it very enjoyable. On the trail with all those lovely banked turns, I have heard folks make comments about plus being slow and handling poorly as I passed em on a singlespeed plus. Laying that plusser down and railing the turns disproved the sentiment by that bloke.
> ...


Thanks for the info. I worked as a bike mechanic for a year and built a few wheelsets. I just don't really want to invest in the tools right now to do it at home. I true my wheels with the zip tie method. 
I see rims and custom wheel options, but for some reason not a lot of complete factory wheelsets above 30mm.

That's what i'm afraid about when it comes to plus as well. I just see all that rubber and rim, and my mind is telling me slow and sluggish, and i'm just not sure if it would be "too much" for how and where I plan to use the bike. Okay, the whole reason I want to build a steel hardtail/rigid instead of just buying a random alu complete XC hardtail is because I love "quirky" bikes, but I sort of want the right tool for the job. I really need to find a way to try a plus bike.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Honestly Holly, The current gen Krampus sounds perfect for your situation in my mind, for reasons already mentioned.

The lower bb is great for your described riding style.

Running smaller-than-plus tires should not be an issue unless you really get into big rocks and stumps and have to pedal.

Even then, adding a suspension fork would raise the bb a hair if you really needed it.

It has braze-ons all over it to carry your lego sets and jolly ranchers.

As always with Surly, it's super duper versatile and, well, "quirky".


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

I had 35 mm velocity blunt 29" wheels on my 2015 OG Krampus with a 2.4" tire on the front, and 2.25" in the rear. Worked really well. Didn't much like the idea of putting 3" tires on the rims, though I never tried it. It was a size small, and when I switched to a medium frame set, I moved all the parts to a KM since the wheels were a better fit for that bike. Had the rims been 40 mm, I’d have gone with Krampus. 

My KM is my one bike for the price of two. Two and a half, now that I upgraded the wheels to 45 mm 27” scrapers. That wasn’t cheap.


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

HollyBoni said:


> Thanks. TBH I don't care that much about going fast, and if I go for ~4 hour ride, i'll descend for like 5 minutes.  I just read all this stuff about new geo, and some people talk about it like you can't pedal uphill without a steep STA, and you can't go downhill without a slack HTA. I just don't know how much of it is true and how much of it is BS, since I have no personal experience, and I also think that my off road rides are much more mellow due to the terrain compared to how a lot of people ride. I wish I could ride gnarly singletrack for hours, but that doesn't really exist here.
> 
> Dang, didn't know that.


The Krampus sounds like a perfect bike for you. FWIW, I bought a newer gen Krampus almost 2 years ago and have absolutely loved it - with a few caveats. I got it in the PNW and tore down just about everything with a suspension fork. Compared to my previous 27.5 hardtail, the Krampus rolled right over rocks, roots, wet mud in the coast range, dry sandy soils in Bend. I could easily keep up with enduro friends at places like Alsea and Black Rock (i.e. jumps), and point it confidently down some steep terrain locally in the coast mountains.

Then I moved to Southern AZ last year. I added a dropper post and kept the suspension but was getting absolutely pounded on some of the rougher, steep terrain here (i.e. mostly rocks, lots of exposure, plus the heat!). Besides some mellow local singletrack and moderate parts of the AZT, I'd come back from rides with rattled bones and a bad headache. So, I sort of realized if I wanted to get into that style of riding, maybe a full suspension bike is needed, which I then realized, I'm not really interested in getting into! So I sold off the suspension fork, and switched the Krampus back into rigid mode, and I remembered why I loved this bike to begin with. It's sort of the perfect all around cruiser and XC bike. Super comfy geo, plus tires eat up washboard and moderate rocks, and the best part is it can pedal to and from dirt on a few miles of local bike path without feeling like suspension is sucking all your energy. What I enjoy most about biking is being able to pedal out the door whether a road ride, or crank out some miles to a trailhead, and having the ability to do this even with an hour or two after work. With covid (I've avoided any offroad/singletrack biking), I actually enjoy the krampus the most, compared to my road bike, for cruising a few miles around the neighborhood.

Long story short - from what you're describing the krampus sounds like a great option. I'd eventually like to save for a lighter wheelset to run 2.5-2.6 tires for gravel and dirt road rides, and then keep the 3.0s for bikepacking and mellower singletrack and parts of the AZT. I have a road/gravel bike too, and I prefer the krampus here for any off-pavement excursion. So, I think a lot of advice really depends on where you live and the type of terrain you ride on a regular basis (minus exceptions for covid, of course)!


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

loren90 said:


> The Krampus sounds like a perfect bike for you.


Thanks for the response. All the replies have been overwhelmingly positive about the Krampus so i'm gonna go with it for sure.
I won't begin the build for a while so i'll have time to agonize over the wheel and tyre setup.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

HollyBoni said:


> Thanks for the info. I worked as a bike mechanic for a year and built a few wheelsets. I just don't really want to invest in the tools right now to do it at home. I true my wheels with the zip tie method.
> I see rims and custom wheel options, but for some reason not a lot of complete factory wheelsets above 30mm.
> 
> That's what i'm afraid about when it comes to plus as well. I just see all that rubber and rim, and my mind is telling me slow and sluggish, and i'm just not sure if it would be "too much" for how and where I plan to use the bike. Okay, the whole reason I want to build a steel hardtail/rigid instead of just buying a random alu complete XC hardtail is because I love "quirky" bikes, but I sort of want the right tool for the job. I really need to find a way to try a plus bike.


A bike with personality is awesome on every level!

A plus is not necessarily slow and sluggish. Wrong tire choice can be a deal breaker for any bike. Just one of the many things that can make any tire size and rim width perform poorly. Frankly, I have run some naysayers into the ground with my RSD Middlechild singlespeed running on 27.5' x 3.0's. Yup, a one speed automatic! One bloke actually apologized after the ride and said he has new respect for plus. Will you get stronger, develop more stamina and endurance? You certainly will. Handling a plus does have differences in body english and such however, once this is sorted and developed, a plus can be a rock star that is very comfortable and can do everything a minus does.

Quirky, not so much but pithy, indeed! Sunspot is a pithy little individual. 
On to the Krampus option... My buddy has been abusing the hell out of a first gen in Moonlit Swamp since it hit the market and still going strong. The beauty of a Krampus in the versatility. Wanna get rowdy? Do so... Wanna just have a trail ride and clear your melon? Do so. The list goes on since the Krampus is a very versatile bike and seems to be robust and durable.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

Slight sus fork confusion. Surly says the max fork length for the Krampus is 550mm, which is a 120mm 29+ according to them.
I just checked a 2021 29" RS Revelation. The AC length is 531 for a 120mm, and RS says it can clear a 3.25 tyre. 
Is the info on the Surly website outdated or something?


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

HollyBoni said:


> Slight sus fork confusion. Surly says the max fork length for the Krampus is 550mm, which is a 120mm 29+ according to them.
> I just checked a 2021 29" RS Revelation. The AC length is 531 for a 120mm, and RS says it can clear a 3.25 tyre.
> Is the info on the Surly website outdated or something?


When Surly wrote that, the only official 29+ fork was the Manitou Magnum. The 120mm Magnum has a 550mm A-C. Since then, RockShox has introduced 29+ specific forks, and then increased the clearance on their 29 "Boost" forks, giving us a lot more options. Just keep the A-C under 550mm and run what you want.

I'm running a 120mm Magnum, and it's great, but if I could have bought a 120mm fork with ~20mm less static length when I built it, I would have done that. I feel the 550mm A-C makes the Krampus a bit floppy feeling. Also, I'd choose a shorter offset than the 51mm that the Magnum has. It seems like higher offsets were just a fad for a few years, and they're going back to 46mm or so.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

HollyBoni said:


> Slight sus fork confusion. Surly says the max fork length for the Krampus is 550mm, which is a 120mm 29+ according to them.
> I just checked a 2021 29" RS Revelation. The AC length is 531 for a 120mm, and RS says it can clear a 3.25 tyre.
> Is the info on the Surly website outdated or something?


This is the point at which we have to read fork specs and choose from that information. A 120mm travel will have differing A/C from model to model as well as maker to maker. Unfortunately, there is no standard applied to travel and axle/crown length to simplify life.

Surly states A/C 550 however, says nothing of travel range. For example, a Pike ultimate 150mm travel is 561mm A/C which is 6mm longer than Surly says. Since it is 6mm, that would be doable without issue and wouldn't affect geometry enough to be an issue.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

All clear now, thanks guys!


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## gooseberry1 (Mar 16, 2016)

Just finished the build of my TI version of a Krampus with carbon wheels. It rides so nice. 









Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

gooseberry1 said:


> Just finished the build of my TI version of a Krampus with carbon wheels. It rides so nice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is sweet! I'm not familiar with speedtech. How do they handle frames? Custom offshore builds?


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## gooseberry1 (Mar 16, 2016)

Yes he designs what you want and then has it built but the wheels he builds himself. 


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## gooseberry1 (Mar 16, 2016)

This was four years of talking about it and I picked up my Krampus demo bike when he had his store front years ago. 


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

Another fork question --

I'm in no rush but have been slowly looking at suspension forks again. Currently riding the newer gen krampus in rigid mode (mostly around the neighborhood during quarantine) and have been loving it, but hope to get on trails again if things ever improve.

I had a 120mm RS Revelation but never really liked it (it always felt rough, too firm, and jarring no matter how much I adjusted it). A lack of a full lockout in combination with plus tires made biking to the trail feel like a slug. While the more slacked out geo was great for descending, I don't mind the more traditional geo in rigid mode for all around riding and climbing. Not to mention, while I'm not a weight weenie, a front susp fork plus dropper turned a mostly stock krampus into an absolute anchor.

What are some good alternative models? Currently running 2.8" tires but would still want clearance for a 3" tire. Would a 100mm fork be a better option for all around riding? A little lighter than the revelation? I see a lot of used RS forks online, would an 'upgrade' to something like a Pike be a noticeable improvement from the rough revelation (although it still doesn't fully lockout?). Prefer 34mm+ stanchions. Fox? Manitou? Price range for me is in the lightly used market, unless a past season discount. Maybe I'm over thinking this.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

loren90 said:


> Another fork question --
> 
> I'm in no rush but have been slowly looking at suspension forks again. Currently riding the newer gen krampus in rigid mode (mostly around the neighborhood during quarantine) and have been loving it, but hope to get on trails again if things ever improve.
> 
> ...


This might be just food for taught.
I have a great RS on a bike i bought 3 years ago, it was probably a year old(no sticker). It was 100mm and OK but a year ago instead of just going for a maintenance at the same time i asked to go 120mm, not that much more expansive. It just suits my needs way better.
I think about 50% of the improvement came from the extra 20mm but they removed the things usualy used by heavier riders. Since i bought it from a light rider like me i had no clue those were probably making the fork impossible for me to adjust properly. Ya i am no fork expert but with a pump i can play and find what i like for what i do.


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

33red said:


> This might be just food for taught.
> I have a great RS on a bike i bought 3 years ago, it was probably a year old(no sticker). It was 100mm and OK but a year ago instead of just going for a maintenance at the same time i asked to go 120mm, not that much more expansive. It just suits my needs way better.
> I think about 50% of the improvement came from the extra 20mm but they removed the things usually used by heavier riders. Since i bought it from a light rider like me i had no clue those were probably making the fork impossible for me to adjust properly. Ya i am no fork expert but with a pump i can play and find what i like for what i do.


Hmm yeah will have to think about this. I sold the Revelation (I think it was model year 2019) a few months ago so will be on the market regardless. I've ridden a few fox forks in the past (on different bikes). I'm not picky and typically just mess around with the air pressure, set it, and then go way too long without servicing it. From the start the Revelation just always felt way too jarring, and never close to as smooth as previous older fox forks. The air tokens didn't seem to make a difference, and either too high of psi and it was too rough, or too low and too much fork sag when I was pedaling up a road. I'm not heavy and not a particularly aggressive rider either.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

My new bike is a Giant affordable with a 130mm Suntour 34.
I also love that one (much less expensive).
I told my weight 140 pounds and i never played with the adjusment, no need.
A- i find my tires PSI
B- i find fork pressure
C- i fine tune with rebound
Good luck shopping.


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## SurlyJohn (Jul 4, 2020)

On my SS Krampus I’m running two different wheelsets - Duroc 50’s with 3” tires for 29+ and a set of Ibis i35 carbons for 29x2.6f/2.5r. Both are setup with different gears too. 

If I’ll be climbing a bunch in the CO high country, I’ll take the Ibis wheelset and call it a day. They’re lighter and feel like they accelerate better too.

Duroc’s are a bit heavy but they’ve been good wheels for me. If I know the trail will be rough/rocky/rooty they’re my go to wheels for a bit more cushion.

“IMHO” 29+ definitely has its place. Both can be fast. I’m NOT that fast, but if I’m exploring, the 29+ is like a Jeep that I’ll take anywhere. If I know where I’m going and the trails have tons of climbing or are flowing/tight/fast I tend to ride the 2.6/2.5’s and I’m a happy camper.

Anyway, what I’m trying to write is - you might want to know your trails or your general riding style before choosing 29/29+. Or just get two wheelsets like I did...

John


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

SurlyJohn said:


> On my SS Krampus I'm running two different wheelsets - Duroc 50's with 3" tires for 29+ and a set of Ibis i35 carbons for 29x2.6f/2.5r. Both are setup with different gears too.
> 
> If I'll be climbing a bunch in the CO high country, I'll take the Ibis wheelset and call it a day. They're lighter and feel like they accelerate better too.
> 
> ...


glad to read this b/c I have been thinking of building a wheel set for the same use...keep my 50mm Rabbit Holes with Knards set up for gravel, snow/mud and touring, and build a slightly skinnier set for techy trail and singletrack...


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## zachary_miller (May 10, 2013)

*Marzocchi Bomber Z2 clears 3" no problemo!*

Not completely set to one topic in the thread, but relevant for the general audience... After thrashing a 2014 Fox 34 with a dremmelled out bridge (to clear 2.8" tires barely) for the past few years on my OG bass boat green beauty - it met its maker... So in searching for a worthwhile low-maintenance fork (and avidly perusing the used market), I settled on a new Marzocchi Bomber Z2 130mm 44mm offset.

It wasn't on my radar until my lbs dudes/ladies :thumbsup: brought the fork up and said it'd be a perfect fit for me, who never wants to fiddle with or "tune" fancy parts... I just wanna ride my Krampus on weird and wild Montana backwoods singletrack. It is simple, stout, buttery smooth (better than the old fox for sure)... and clears 29x3" no problemo!

I'll try and get some pics up soon, but here are the rim/tire combos I've ridden in it so far: 
- Whisky Parts OEM 50mm alloy rim (bought off a Salsa Woodsmoke)
- Terravail Kennebec 29x2.6" Tough (measured more like 2.75" on the wide rim and had clearance for days)
- Bontrager Chupa TLR 29x3" (well stretched and fits with plenty of space)

Here's a pic from a recent bikepacking trip on the a portion of the CDT (with the Teravails installed):










Anywho... figured this group might be stoked to hear about another viable suspension fork option that doesn't brake the bank ($499) and ought to be as durable as the steel frames we cherish.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

zachary_miller said:


> Not completely set to one topic in the thread, but relevant for the general audience... After thrashing a 2014 Fox 34 with a dremmelled out bridge (to clear 2.8" tires barely) for the past few years on my OG bass boat green beauty - it met its maker... So in searching for a worthwhile low-maintenance fork (and avidly perusing the used market), I settled on a new Marzocchi Bomber Z2 130mm 44mm offset.
> 
> It wasn't on my radar until my lbs dudes/ladies  brought the fork up and said it'd be a perfect fit for me, who never wants to fiddle with or "tune" fancy parts... I just wanna ride my Krampus on weird and wild Montana backwoods singletrack. It is simple, stout, buttery smooth (better than the old fox for sure)... and clears 29x3" no problemo!
> 
> ...


Great info, thanks! I looked at the specs on that fork, and it didn't look good for 29x3". Glad to hear it is. I'd like to try a shorter offset fork. I think the 51mm offset that was all the rage a few years ago adds some nervousness to the handling.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

I read somewhere that 51mm would make it a bit more nervous climber is that correct?


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Funoutside said:


> I read somewhere that 51mm would make it a bit more nervous climber is that correct?


Possibly. It's hard to pin things on one dimension alone. When you go from the stock rigid fork to a longer suspension fork with more offset, you're changing the wheelbase, head angle, BB height, trail, etc. They all contribute to how the bike feels. I'd like to try a shorter offset, while keeping all the other variables the same.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Funoutside said:


> I read somewhere that 51mm would make it a bit more nervous climber is that correct?


No, it will help on steep and/or technical climbs, but that's a weird thing to be focused on.

If you're putting a sus fork on a Krampus you want to stick with a 51 offset in 95% of the cases. The goal is to keep the stock Trail figure as close to original as possible.

46mm offset may be favorable for certain terrain and riding styles but those would be mountainous areas where stability is valued over agility.

Seems not too many people choose a Krampus for that type of location though.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

*OneSpeed* said:


> No, it will help on steep and/or technical climbs, but that's a weird thing to be focused on.
> 
> If you're putting a sus fork on a Krampus you want to stick with a 51 offset in 95% of the cases. The goal is to keep the stock Trail figure as close to original as possible.
> 
> ...


I believe that was the thinking a few years ago when bikes started getting slacker, they went with more offset to preserve some agility. Sort of like when 29ers first started getting going, they made them with steep head angles in an attempt to make them feel more like 26" bikes. Now that people are getting used to slack bikes, they're returning to less fork offset in order to take full advantage of the stability.

Just my $0.02...


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

cjbiker said:


> I believe that was the thinking a few years ago when bikes started getting slacker, they went with more offset to preserve some agility. Sort of like when 29ers first started getting going, they made them with steep head angles in an attempt to make them feel more like 26" bikes. Now that people are getting used to slack bikes, they're returning to less fork offset in order to take full advantage of the stability.
> 
> Just my $0.02...


First of all, the difference between a 51 and 46 offset is something like 6-7%, very minimal and many people might not even notice. It's not like it's night and day.

Your logic applies to progressive bikes designed around slack HTA's with a long Reach and short fork offsets, which the Krampus is decidedly NOT.

There is no right or wrong frankly, "taking full advantage" of the stability... at the expense of agility.

Glass half full or half empty? Depends on how you look at it and what you want to get out of it.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

*OneSpeed* said:


> First of all, the difference between a 51 and 46 offset is something like 6-7%, very minimal and many people might not even notice. It's not like it's night and day.
> 
> Your logic applies to progressive bikes designed around slack HTA's with a long Reach and short fork offsets, which the Krampus is decidedly NOT.
> 
> ...


By that argument, a 65 degree HTA is less than 6% different than a stock Krampus, and I think we can agree that's a big difference. Anyway, it's complicated with a lot of variables, the largest of which are the rider, their expectations, and the trails they ride.

I think we're in agreement, one rider's "nervous" may be another's "agile", "stable" to one could be "unresponsive" to another.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

At the end of discussion, the remaining value that is really being noticed as a change happens to be caster angle.
Caster will be different with fork length changes, say a 525mm AC vs. a 560mm AC, both with a 51mm rake.
Sure, it will affect BB height and STA, go figure!

As CJ said, saddle choice, caster angle and tire pressure are similar in subjectivity!


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

cjbiker said:


> By that argument, a 65 degree HTA is less than 6% different than a stock Krampus, and I think we can agree that's a big difference. Anyway, it's complicated with a lot of variables, the largest of which are the rider, their expectations, and the trails they ride.


I was talking about the perceived difference in feel from the riders perspective, not an actual measured percentage.



> I think we're in agreement, one rider's "nervous" may be another's "agile", "stable" to one could be "unresponsive" to another.


Agreed


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## zachary_miller (May 10, 2013)

*Fork offset?*



cjbiker said:


> Possibly. It's hard to pin things on one dimension alone. When you go from the stock rigid fork to a longer suspension fork with more offset, you're changing the wheelbase, head angle, BB height, trail, etc. They all contribute to how the bike feels. I'd like to try a shorter offset, while keeping all the other variables the same.


I waffled about which offset to order but went with the shorter as the 51mm was sold out and I missed riding too much to wait another couple weeks. I was concerned I'd noticed slowed down steering (on an arguably already slow 29+ platform with a longer than recommended AC suspension fork)... Turns out, I don't notice a difference at all. I'm sure there are super legit folks out there that would be able to pick apart the intricacies of fork offset effects on handling, but, like you said, "it's hard to pin things down to one dimension alone."

Worth mentioning too is that the OG Krampus rigid fork has a 48mm offset - sitting squarely in the middle of the 44mm/51mm offset options for suspension forks. I can't imagine most of the 29+ riders are too focused on subtlety with how diverse our handling characteristics can be simply based on rim width/tire size/tire brand.

Toss it on there and giver' hell!


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

ok, so I am just going to ask this and know that I am going to get yelled at for not searching...but I DID search and it was a frustrating "round robin" of topics, so here goes:

is there a dropper post that fits in the OG Green Krampus' seat post? I am entertaining the thought of using a dropper, but had heard that they don't work in the OG b/c of the bend in the seatpost


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> ok, so I am just going to ask this and know that I am going to get yelled at for not searching...but I DID search and it was a frustrating "round robin" of topics, so here goes:
> 
> is there a dropper post that fits in the OG Green Krampus' seat post? I am entertaining the thought of using a dropper, but had heard that they don't work in the OG b/c of the bend in the seatpost


I have a BrandX Ascend. 27.2mm diameter and external cable connection. The same post is sold by PNW and TransX.

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com...i-dropper-seatpost-105-125-150-/rp-prod159176


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

cjbiker said:


> I have a BrandX Ascend. 27.2mm diameter and external cable connection. The same post is sold by PNW and TransX.
> 
> https://www.chainreactioncycles.com...i-dropper-seatpost-105-125-150-/rp-prod159176


sweet...thanks for the info!! Will be looking into getting this


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

Well fellas, they dunnit again. Couple new colors and build kits. I'd post a link but Surly's site is blocked at work (but this site isn't, go figure. I'll take that trade off). 
I thing we all know where to find the info..

I guess they spec it with a suspension fork now, but with.....only.....2.6 tires?! WTF?!

If your gonna do that, Surly, than give us the shorter chainstays. With 2.8 McFly's in the back of mine, there is a lot of wasted space even with the axle slammed forward.

Anyway, I do like the new colors, especially the black/red.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

DaddyFatStax said:


> I guess they spec it with a suspension fork now, but with.....only.....2.6 tires?! WTF?!


That's just one of the complete options, silver complete comes rigid with real width tires.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Yeah, I'm a little bummed they didn't update the geo, guess I'll just hang on to mine for one more season...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

It's been around 2 years since I made a real tweak/upgrade to the Krampus. It's so dialed for me it's hard to find anything to change that's not just gratuitous. I took this ^^ photo back in 2019.










With the COVID crazed crowds out and about in the city on a fine sunny Sunday I decided to be anti-social and stay home. I figure I can shred during the mid-week when they are busy. One of my projects was to install this ^^^ sweet -1 deg Works Component headset in the Krampus. The handling of the OG Krampus is pretty nice considering it's a 2013 model and I use it mostly for urban assault and gravel crushing these days. But I had this headset just sitting there in my parts bin and I was curious.

Cane Creek deserves a shout out. I had a mid-range CC headset in the bike for 4-5 years. It saw snow, rain, dust and no maintenance. When I opened it up the interior was essentially new. I kept that headset as I'll use it again at some point.










The WC headset took a few tries to get it installed correctly. The cups like to rotate a bit as you press them in the head tube and unlike a standard headset the alignment of each cup matters. My initial cruising impressions were good. I can feel the extra slackness, but it's just an incremental change as you'd expect from a -1 deg headset. I'm sure I'll appreciate it next time I get to bomb a steep gravel hill. 

I was inquiring about a drop bar 29+ frame/fork at a LBS and the sales guy asked me if I was getting rid of the Krampus. I gave him an appropriately shocked look and said "No freaking way!" 🤘🤘🤘


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

vikb said:


> It's been around 2 years since I made a real tweak/upgrade to the Krampus. It's so dialed for me it's hard to find anything to change that's not just gratuitous. I took this ^^ photo back in 2019.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've been looking at the Slackerizer -2° headset and a 490mm A-C fork for my Krampus OPS. If only there was a bolt-on fix to give it 25mm more reach too...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

cjbiker said:


> I've been looking at the Slackerizer -2° headset and a 490mm A-C fork for my Krampus OPS. If only there was a bolt-on fix to give it 25mm more reach too...


The only Reach upgrade is the next size frame unfortunately. Although I've made peace with the dimensions of my medium OG Krampus and no longer lust for a large.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

vikb said:


> It's been around 2 years since I made a real tweak/upgrade to the Krampus. It's so dialed for me it's hard to find anything to change that's not just gratuitous. I took this ^^ photo back in 2019.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ah yes...the Old Girl!!! Glad to see she is still getting attention!! i remember seeing your adventures with this bike when I was looking for mine...can't believe it has been that long


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## SourWortBrewer (Jul 11, 2013)

*ISO: Large or Medium OG Moonlit Swamp Krampus Frameset or just Moonlit Swamp Fork*

I have a OG Krampus, bought as stock complete build, over the years every part except the crank arms has been replaced and now it is SS, now I even bent the fork, and replaced with a black one.

I search Pinkbike, Ebay, and craigslist just about every day...

Anyone out there have connections to a frame or Moonlit Fork collecting dust, looking for a Large or Medium.

Thanks,
Matt


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've been testing out the -1 deg headset for a few days. So far I am liking it a lot. The difference is noticeable without being too dramatic. The bike feels larger now. Not in terms of seated cockpit, but wheelbase and the handling still feels good. I'll probably never bother changing this headset for a different one, but I'd be curious what it would feel like even a bit slacker.


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## marvin rouge (Mar 12, 2013)

vikb said:


> ...I'd be curious what it would feel like even a bit slacker.


 -1 degree plus a 130 mm fork would also be interesting. That would slacken further, while maintaining bb drop, more or less?


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## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

vikb said:


> I've been testing out the -1 deg headset for a few days. So far I am liking it a lot. The difference is noticeable without being too dramatic. The bike feels larger now. Not in terms of seated cockpit, but wheelbase and the handling still feels good. I'll probably never bother changing this headset for a different one, but I'd be curious what it would feel like even a bit slacker.


I just added a -1 degree headset from Wolftooth to my Salsa El Mariachi and it is a noticeable improvement! I might get a Works -2 deg and check that out! Perhaps it would be even better!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

mohrgan said:


> I just added a -1 degree headset from Wolftooth to my Salsa El Mariachi and it is a noticeable improvement! I might get a Works -2 deg and check that out! Perhaps it would be even better!


If you can find one it's worth a shot. When I bought mine -1 deg was the only WC option in stock for the type and length of my headtube. I wouldn't have said no to a -2 deg headset. I'm lazy though and getting those WC headsets to Canada is $$$ so I can't be bothered changing the one I have.

For your El Mar -2 deg will still not be crazy slack so it shouldn't be a problem.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

marvin rouge said:


> -1 degree plus a 130 mm fork would also be interesting. That would slacken further, while maintaining bb drop, more or less?


Yes that's one of the benefits of a WC headset...you can slack the bike out with minimal geo changes compared to say putting a 20mm longer fork on the bike.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

I've run my K with a -2 for a few years now and wouldn't go back. I'm running a 120mm Pike.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

cjbiker said:


> I have a BrandX Ascend. 27.2mm diameter and external cable connection. The same post is sold by PNW and TransX.
> 
> Brand-X Ascend II Dropper Seatpost | Chain Reaction Cycles


On the topic of droppers has anyone run an internal dropper?
I'm looking to get a PNW Rainier 27.2 125mm internal. I'm thinking of drilling a hole in the down tube (near HT) and run the cable down the DT, through the BB and back into the ST through the holes in the frame. It will be a PITA to install / change cable but nice and clean and only one hole.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

fartymarty said:


> On the topic of droppers has anyone run an internal dropper?
> I'm looking to get a PNW Rainier 27.2 125mm internal. I'm thinking of drilling a hole in the down tube (near HT) and run the cable down the DT, through the BB and back into the ST through the holes in the frame. It will be a PITA to install / change cable but nice and clean and only one hole.


I have drilled and installed an internal dropper in a different bike, but not my Krampus. If you take your time it shouldn't be a big deal. I ended up drilling 2 or 3 holes and then used a file to connect them smoothly. The way you bend the housing will need some room to maneuver and I like that better than a big single hole.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

fartymarty said:


> On the topic of droppers has anyone run an internal dropper?
> I'm looking to get a PNW Rainier 27.2 125mm internal. I'm thinking of drilling a hole in the down tube (near HT) and run the cable down the DT, through the BB and back into the ST through the holes in the frame. It will be a PITA to install / change cable but nice and clean and only one hole.


I see no benefit to an internal dropper. The cable routing for the external PNW/BrandX/TranzX droppers is fine on the Krampus, the cable is easier to install or replace, it's easier to adjust the saddle height if you need to (less chance of pulling the cable housing out), etc.


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## farty-marty (Apr 5, 2021)

cjbiker said:


> I see no benefit to an internal dropper. The cable routing for the external PNW/BrandX/TranzX droppers is fine on the Krampus, the cable is easier to install or replace, it's easier to adjust the saddle height if you need to (less chance of pulling the cable housing out), etc.


I think I'm coming around to this.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Pretty soon wireless droppers will be all the rage anyway.


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## farty-marty (Apr 5, 2021)

cjbiker said:


> I see no benefit to an internal dropper. The cable routing for the external PNW/BrandX/TranzX droppers is fine on the Krampus, the cable is easier to install or replace, it's easier to adjust the saddle height if you need to (less chance of pulling the cable housing out), etc.


I just check external and PNW only do 125mm drop in an internal.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

farty-marty said:


> I just check external and PNW only do 125mm drop in an internal.


I have a 125mm Bikeyoke on my new gen Krampus, and a 105mm BrandX on the OG Krampus. I can't tell the difference in use. I can tell the difference when I ride my ICT with a 170mm dropper. It takes a DEEP squat to drop that all the way down, lol.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

cjbiker said:


> I have a 125mm Bikeyoke on my new gen Krampus, and a 105mm BrandX on the OG Krampus. I can't tell the difference in use. I can tell the difference when I ride my ICT with a 170mm dropper. It takes a DEEP squat to drop that all the way down, lol.


I've run a 125mm Thomson and don't really want to run any less travel. I have a 180mm on my Murmur so am used to having a decent amount of drop.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

This friggen" Krampus is sooooo much fun!
Took it for our nightly ride.... It's like the devil on my shoulder, "Faster, faster, pass on the right now! Peddle you fool, pedal!"


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## marvin rouge (Mar 12, 2013)

vikb said:


> Yes that's one of the benefits of a WC headset...you can slack the bike out with minimal geo changes compared to say putting a 20mm longer fork on the bike.


Well after all the shananigans with my Chinese fork (see my separate thread) I got to borrow the Bombtrack BPC 500mm a-c fork off her new Beyond+ adv. That's 17mm longer over the stock 483mm, taking the head angle from 69* to around 68.2*. The bb drop shrinks from 65 to something a few mm less, maybe? Offset increases from 47mm to 51mm - a bit of nimble to counteract the slacker, somewhat. Drops the weight to 29 lbs, not bad for XL.
Took it for a whirl and decided I liked the handling better - just a slight hint of flop. Carves really well at speed - good for rowdy - but its not so easy at slow speed climbing and hence is a little less bikepacking friendly&#8230; oh well, can't have everything. Anyway, it's a very well priced fork, and amazingly for current times is available to buy, so I've ordered one.


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## farty-marty (Apr 5, 2021)

I've just drilled* my OG Krampus for an internel dropper (PNW 125mm). I've not ridden it yet so hopefully it doesn't fold on me... I'm just waiting for the dropper to arrive and hopefully will post some piccys once done.
* 3 holes - one on the RHS of the downtube above the gusset, one on the top of the downtube above the BB and one on the seat tube above the BB.


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)




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## farty-marty (Apr 5, 2021)

farty-marty said:


> I've just drilled* my OG Krampus for an internel dropper (PNW 125mm). I've not ridden it yet so hopefully it doesn't fold on me... I'm just waiting for the dropper to arrive and hopefully will post some piccys once done.
> * 3 holes - one on the RHS of the downtube above the gusset, one on the top of the downtube above the BB and one on the seat tube above the BB.


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## farty-marty (Apr 5, 2021)

farty-marty said:


> View attachment 1941924


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## farty-marty (Apr 5, 2021)

I still need to put some silicon seslant around the holes to seal. I tried grommets but the holes are too small (6mm) and I don't want to drill them any bigger.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

farty-marty said:


> View attachment 1941925


With that longer fork and angleset, you'll certainly be testing the drilled downtube!

I was just looking at the Lowside frame I'm about to build up. I've got an internal cable dropper for it. The Lowside has a cable port at the base of the seat tube, but no cable guides on the downtube like the new Krampus. I suppose I'll just cable tie the dropper cable to the DT in a couple of spots.


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## farty-marty (Apr 5, 2021)

cjbiker said:


> With that longer fork and angleset, you'll certainly be testing the drilled downtube!
> 
> I was just looking at the Lowside frame I'm about to build up. I've got an internal cable dropper for it. The Lowside has a cable port at the base of the seat tube, but no cable guides on the downtube like the new Krampus. I suppose I'll just cable tie the dropper cable to the DT in a couple of spots.


I was thinking about running it externally on the DT but thought internal would be neater. Hopefully it holds up fine.


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## marvin rouge (Mar 12, 2013)

Springtime in the West&#8230;


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## marvin rouge (Mar 12, 2013)

More spring touring&#8230; happy days.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I'm usually riding the Mighty Krampus solo, but today my GF got a photo of this mythical beast in action exploring the beach at lowish tide. We've been together 9 years and the good times just keep on rolling. Such a great bike. 🤘 🤘 🤘


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

^Awesome! 

This has probably been covered in here before but without searching through posts... What are you (and others) using for fenders? Will probably convert my krampus back to rigid mode for winter and am back in a wet/snowy climate. Thanks


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Loren0090 said:


> What are you (and others) using for fenders?












Mudhugger fenders front and rear. PDW downtube splash guard. RRP also makes a nice fender that's similar to the MH front fender, but more coverage. I haven't tried the RRP on my Krampus, but I have used it on other bikes and like it.










RRP fender ^^^.


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

Thanks for the info, I'll check those out!


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Just put this thing together.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

nitrousjunky said:


> Just put this thing together.


Nice! If I got a newer Krampus I'd want that colour. 🤘 🤘 🤘


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## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

nitrousjunky said:


> Just put this thing together.
> Rad. What handlebar and stem is that?


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

nitrousjunky said:


> Just put this thing together.
> 
> View attachment 1959530
> 
> ...


Is that a 3" XR4 on the front? How's the clearance with that fork?


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

cjbiker said:


> Is that a 3" XR4 on the front? How's the clearance with that fork?


Yes on i40 rim and plenty of clearance


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

SSsteel4life - Thomson stem and Gravity 777 bar


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

nitrousjunky said:


> Just put this thing together.
> 
> View attachment 1959530
> 
> View attachment 1959531


I'd like to see a closeup of whateverer is goin' on with the top tube. Decal? Arty something?


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

wadester said:


> I'd like to see a closeup of whateverer is goin' on with the top tube. Decal? Arty something?


It's an All Mountain Style frame protection kit (Skull version). Went out and snapped this pic for you that shows it a little better.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

Thanks - sweet!


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## Samsam (11 mo ago)

Hi everyone, I have just found an OG krampus in my size (and am beyond excited)!! The serial number on the bb says 2012. One of the things I noticed when taking it apart is that the rear hub (XT) is beyond repair (the thread inside the hub that holds the freehub fixing bolt is stripped). Would you reuse the rabbit hole rim that came with it? Or to put it differently, how much life do you think is left on average for a 10 year old rabbit hole rim? The previous owner said he mainly used the bike for beach rides or XC close to the beach, and the wheels look true and without any scuffs or dents etc. I would like to get the full 29x3 inch on wide rim experience when I first test ride the beast.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Samsam said:


> Hi everyone, I have just found an OG krampus in my size (and am beyond excited)!! The serial number on the bb says 2012. One of the things I noticed when taking it apart is that the rear hub (XT) is beyond repair (the thread inside the hub that holds the freehub fixing bolt is stripped). Would you reuse the rabbit hole rim that came with it? Or to put it differently, how much life do you think is left on average for a 10 year old rabbit hole rim? The previous owner said he mainly used the bike for beach rides or XC close to the beach, and the wheels look true and without any scuffs or dents etc. I would like to get the full 29x3 inch on wide rim experience when I first test ride the beast.


Keep the Rabbit Hole rim! They're great and hard to come by. If it's not dented or beat up there's no reason not to reuse it.


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Keep the Rabbit Hole rim! They're great and hard to come by. If it's not dented or beat up there's no reason not to reuse it.


Agreed!
Some people are paying probably more than they should be to get Rabbit Hole rims, definitely re-use it if you can!


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## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

Oh Surly Oh Surly, when will you release the next Gen Krampus! With just a little more modern geometry! Need a Sibling for my current one!


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## Samsam (11 mo ago)

ok great, will try and save the rabbit hole rims!


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## Samsam (11 mo ago)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Keep the Rabbit Hole rim! They're great and hard to come by. If it's not dented or beat up there's no reason not to reuse it.





Redlands R&C said:


> Agreed!
> Some people are paying probably more than they should be to get Rabbit Hole rims, definitely re-use it if you can!


Can I ask why you like them or why they're great? Is it because of durability/reliability/feel/something else? They seem rather hard to set up tubeless, looking at all the big holes


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## Samsam (11 mo ago)

Does anyone still uses the OG krampus with the Shimano Zee FC-M640 crank that came with it? The chainring does not seem to be a narrow-wide, and the chain falls off the chainring when in the two biggest cogs. Would removing the driveside spacer between the BB and shell to get a better chainline be a good option?


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## zachary_miller (May 10, 2013)

Samsam said:


> Does anyone still uses the OG krampus with the Shimano Zee FC-M640 crank that came with it? The chainring does not seem to be a narrow-wide, and the chain falls off the chainring when in the two biggest cogs. Would removing the driveside spacer between the BB and shell to get a better chainline be a good option?


Stoked for you Samsam! I still think the OG krampus is one of the best bikes ever built and hence it is still my exclusive mountain bike...

I'm not using those cranks but wish I still had a pair - they'll last a lifetime! I can't remember if my original Krampus drivetrain had a narrow wide, but I'd doubt it... so if it's the original equipment just snag any 104BCD narrow wide chainring and it ought to hold the chain just fine.

You could bump the spacer and improve the granny gear chain line, but if you're hoping to use 3" tires you'd probably have some tire-chain interference since it's a classy non-boost rear end. It could also limit your chainring size if it interferes with the frame.

And considering the Rabbit Hole rims, people love them because they're nearly indestructible and are one of the few truly wide/well-matched rims for 3" rubber. Not ideal for tubeless but not terrible. I've still got one laced to a no-name 15x100 hub that has no front fork to fit in if anyone needs it (free of charge just pay for shipping + a box)... It's been through a lot but can probably handle a good bit more!


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## zachary_miller (May 10, 2013)

nitrousjunky said:


> Just put this thing together.
> 
> View attachment 1959530
> 
> ...


Nice Z2! That bike looks buttery smooth...


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

SSsteel4life said:


> Oh Surly Oh Surly, when will you release the next Gen Krampus! With just a little more modern geometry! Need a Sibling for my current one!


More modern in what way? If you say steeper seat tube angle I swear to god.......

I agree that the ht angle could slack out a tiny bit, but other then that I'm not sure what you would change.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

jonshonda said:


> I agree that the ht angle could slack out a tiny bit, but other then that I'm not sure what you would change.


Longer front center. Way longer. The Reach is comically short and the front wheel is way too close to me. 

I'd also happily accept shorter chainstays and more Stack on the XL frames!


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

Samsam said:


> Can I ask why you like them or why they're great? Is it because of durability/reliability/feel/something else? They seem rather hard to set up tubeless, looking at all the big holes


In my experience the RHs are bomb proof. I beat the tar out of them on my OG Krampus that was always set up rigid SS. My local trails aren’t kind to rims… That said, I was happy to get rid of them for a couple of reasons. Mostly the cut outs are a pain. Fun because you can run colorful patterns, but more of a pain than a non cut out rim. In the six years I had the Krampus I always ran the RHs tubeless, and I had to futz with re-taping way more than I wanted or ever have with solid rims before or since.

Second, IMO I don’t think you need an i45 rim for a 3.0 tire. You’ll love the Krampus and 3.0 with a slightly narrower and non cut out i40.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SSsteel4life (Jul 1, 2016)

jonshonda said:


> More modern in what way? If you say steeper seat tube angle I swear to god.......
> 
> I agree that the ht angle could slack out a tiny bit, but other then that I'm not sure what you would change.


No steep seat angle for me!  Bit more slack, reach and stack.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Longer front center. Way longer. The Reach is comically short and the front wheel is way too close to me.
> 
> I'd also happily accept shorter chainstays and more Stack on the XL frames!


How much longer do you need? It is in line with a lot of other manufactures reach numbers when you consider the slack st angle. The ETT is fairly long, which is a better number to go by then reach. 435mm for 29+ is really [email protected] short. 

I don't know of anyone else doing shorter CS other then the Stache, and there are lots of reports of the handling and ride quality not being everyone's cup of tea. XL bikes should have longer CS for the simple fact we are hanging further back on the bike then anyone else. 
Almost all of surly's offroad bikes ARE TERRIBLE with regards to stack on L/XL framed bikes. Always have been, and I assume they always will be. I assume their designers are all under 5'10" and around 150lbs. 



SSsteel4life said:


> No steep seat angle for me!  Bit more slack, reach and stack.


Agreed 100%


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

jonshonda said:


> How much longer do you need? It is in line with a lot of other manufactures reach numbers when you consider the slack st angle. The ETT is fairly long, which is a better number to go by then reach. 435mm for 29+ is really [email protected] short.
> 
> I don't know of anyone else doing shorter CS other then the Stache, and there are lots of reports of the handling and ride quality not being everyone's cup of tea. XL bikes should have longer CS for the simple fact we are hanging further back on the bike then anyone else.
> Almost all of surly's offroad bikes ARE TERRIBLE with regards to stack on L/XL framed bikes. Always have been, and I assume they always will be. I assume their designers are all under 5'10" and around 150lbs.
> ...


The Reach on my Krampus is 460? Some of my old XC bikes were 440!! That one also had stupid long chainstays like 450mm. (horrible design) My modern bikes have a 510mm Reach. The best part of the longer front end is that when I go over a log or step down I don't have to worry about jumping over the handlebars or worse doing a tuck and roll. (that's a thing of the past) I also really appreciate getting my weight over the front end to weight the front tire for grip when I need it.

I don't like the handlebars so close to me and probably my least favorite thing is having the front wheel too close to me. I think people would need to experience this for themselves to understand it. And probably it takes some time to get a good enough feel and learn some new skills to take advantage of the changes. Typing about it on the internet isn't going to convince anyone.

-------------------

Clearly we want different things from certain bikes. I own hardtails with STA's from 71-74 ish, and full suspension up to 79 degrees. They're all comfortable.

Chainstays as short as 415mm. Love it! (Honzo ST) But, the rest of the bikes geometry must be suited to that. Longer chainstays require slacker STA's and shorter Front Centers, historically. Otherwise you just end up with a dull bike that's stable but no fun to ride. YMMV.

I'm not a fan of long chainstays on any bike I've owned. The longer they are the worse everything is for me. Not a fan.

I'm sure my riding style has something to do with it. I'm usually charging pretty hard, out of the saddle a lot, looking for jumps, B-lines, and any obstacle I can find to pounce on or over.

I rode old school XC bikes for a long time. Many of them. And now that I own a few bikes with very modern geometry I can confidently say I'm fully on board! It's opened up all kinds of new fun ways to ride and the bikes are so much more capable. My skills have grown because of it. Long droppers are a game changer for taller people too!!

So yeah, if you're more of a wheels on the ground kind of rider, you aren't constantly flicking the bike around, and you aren't testing the limits of traction in most situations you probably want something different than me.


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

*OneSpeed* said:


> The Reach on my Krampus is 460? Some of my old XC bikes were 440!! That one also had stupid long chainstays like 450mm. (horrible design) My modern bikes have a 510mm Reach. The best part of the longer front end is that when I go over a log or step down I don't have to worry about jumping over the handlebars or worse doing a tuck and roll. (that's a thing of the past) I also really appreciate getting my weight over the front end to weight the front tire for grip when I need it.
> 
> I don't like the handlebars so close to me and probably my least favorite thing is having the front wheel too close to me. I think people would need to experience this for themselves to understand it. And probably it takes some time to get a good enough feel and learn some new skills to take advantage of the changes. Typing about it on the internet isn't going to convince anyone.
> 
> ...


I'm 6'3" on an XL krampus. Id keep mostly the same geo except a taller head tube so I didn't have to run riser bars. When I lived out west, most of rides also involved 5-10miles of road/bike path to get to trails. I love the krampus as an all-rounder that could pedal anything quite well. I've had it in full rigid mode, susp fork/dropper, and now as a single speed. Not sure there's much I'd want to change, and from what you describe I think there are a lot of other hardtail options that already fit the bill. Cheers


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Yeah, I've also had my Krampus set up 3 different ways. Same. 

There are lots of hardtails, but fewer 29+ options that are steel and not from a major manufacturer, which is all I would buy. The closest thing currently to the geometry I would want is the Myth Talos. Talos

It's a more modern Krampus. I'd love to have more affordable frame only options. Otherwise I'm inclined to just go custom for $1,500-2k and get exactly what I want, which I've done in the past.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

jonshonda said:


> Almost all of surly's offroad bikes ARE TERRIBLE with regards to stack on L/XL framed bikes. Always have been, and I assume they always will be. I assume their designers are all under 5'10" and around 150lbs.


One can't help but wonder if they aren't just trying to increase sells numbers on the Sunrise bars.......🤔

I'd like to see an update with about 10-15mm longer reach (to be offset with shorter stem to keep the bars in the same place) and around 20-30mm longer head tubes. Rest can stay exactly the same IMO. That said, my current one is an absolute pleasure to ride.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Rambling Krampus geo and sizing thoughts...

I'm 5'11" (probably closer to 5'10" if I'm being honest, now that I'm getting older and shrinking), and in between Surly's medium and large sizes. I tend slightly towards long legs, short torso.

I have a large new gen Krampus with a 120mm Manitou Magnum (550mm A-C), and that slacks out the HTA to 67 degrees or so. I don't think I'd want anything slacker. I also have a medium OG Krampus. I tried a -2 degree angleset on it, and didn't really care for it. It was fine on faster trails, but trying to pick my line through slow tech it's a little vague feeling.

Anyway, I'd like Surly to either shrink the seat tube lengths 2" or lengthen the reach/ETT by 1" on all sizes. I.E. give me the seat tube length of a medium, and the reach of a large. More stack would be welcome.

There are lots of aggressive hardtails out there that will fit a 2.6" tire. While that's not the same as a Krampus with it's 3" tires, it's the way the industry is going. They all have steep STAs and slack HTAs. Like >76 and <65 degrees. Cotic BFeMax, Honzo ESD, Marin El Roy, etc. I don't want or need anything that aggressive. I'm glad Surly is still playing it conservative.

I built up a medium Kona Unit X over the winter. It has the reach of a large Krampus, and the length of a medium. The STA is two degrees steeper, and the HT is one degree slacker. I haven't really had a chance to ride it yet. I'm a little anxious to find out if I can live with the steeper STA. And I was disappointed to find out that I had to rack the dropouts all the way out to clear a 2.8" (2.6" actual measured width) tire. That puts the chainstays around 445mm, like the OG Krampus. I was hoping for the advertised 430mm, or slightly longer to clear the 2.8s. I like short chainstays. In the meantime, a large purple Krampus frameset popped up on FB marketplace over the weekend. I couldn't pass it up. I'm going to put a Monē Biplane fork on it, and probably run light 2.8" tires. My other Krampuses have heavy 3" tires, looking for something a little more sprightly.


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## _RB (Dec 15, 2021)

cjbiker said:


> Rambling Krampus geo and sizing thoughts...
> 
> I'm 5'11" (probably closer to 5'10" if I'm being honest, now that I'm getting older and shrinking), and in between Surly's medium and large sizes. I tend slightly towards long legs, short torso.
> 
> ...


Similar thoughts here. Unfortunately, I would prefer Krampus the opposite way, somewhere between BFEMax and the current Krampus. BTW Cotics have geo sagged so the seat tube angle is about 1.5° slacker when comparing geo to usual unsagged geo charts. The only other kind of similar bike is to my knowledge Nordest Sardinha (at least in Europe) but again only 29x2.6".


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

cjbiker said:


> Rambling Krampus geo and sizing thoughts...
> 
> I'm 5'11" (probably closer to 5'10" if I'm being honest, now that I'm getting older and shrinking), and in between Surly's medium and large sizes. I tend slightly towards long legs, short torso.
> 
> ...


Post pics when you get it built up! Ive been eyeing up that Mone fork too so I'm curious how it rides on the krampus.

Re: bars... That's funny with the sunrise bars. I've tried 2 custom steel bars before but think I'm over the boat anchor bars plus shims out front. I also hate a stack of spacers. Currently on a pair of high rise hunter smooth moves. Would prefer a taller head tube though.

Re: reach... Probably been beaten to death but does 2cm longer top tube really make that much more of a difference than 2cm longer stem? I'm running a 50mm stem w 15 degree sweep bars, but might actually bump it back up to 70mm.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Loren0090 said:


> Post pics when you get it built up! Ive been eyeing up that Mone fork too so I'm curious how it rides on the krampus.
> 
> Re: bars... That's funny with the sunrise bars. I've tried 2 custom steel bars before but think I'm over the boat anchor bars plus shims out front. I also hate a stack of spacers. Currently on a pair of high rise hunter smooth moves. Would prefer a taller head tube though.
> 
> Re: reach... Probably been beaten to death but does 2cm longer top tube really make that much more of a difference than 2cm longer stem? I'm running a 50mm stem w 15 degree sweep bars, but might actually bump it back up to 70mm.


Will do!

Sunrise bars- I tried them. I'm no weight weenie, but they were so heavy! Maybe it's all in my mind, but I felt like all that mass affected the handling. They were also really harsh feeling. Those Hunter Smooth Move bars are really nice.

As for reach, everything is connected. If you increase the reach without changing anything else, it moves the front wheel out by the same amount, increasing the front-center and wheelbase. That is really noticeable, and that's what I want, a longer front end. Not to say a longer front end is always good, it adds stability, but decreases "playfulness". It all depends on what you're looking for.


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

cjbiker said:


> Will do!
> 
> Sunrise bars- I tried them. I'm no weight weenie, but they were so heavy! Maybe it's all in my mind, but I felt like all that mass affected the handling. They were also really harsh feeling. Those Hunter Smooth Move bars are really nice.
> 
> As for reach, everything is connected. If you increase the reach without changing anything else, it moves the front wheel out by the same amount, increasing the front-center and wheelbase. That is really noticeable, and that's what I want, a longer front end. Not to say a longer front end is always good, it adds stability, but decreases "playfulness". It all depends on what you're looking for.


Cool! Yeah not a fan of crossbars -- they look rad but I've found make steel bars especially way too stiff.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Loren0090 said:


> Re: bars... That's funny with the sunrise bars. I've tried 2 custom steel bars before but think I'm over the boat anchor bars plus shims out front. I also hate a stack of spacers. Currently on a pair of high rise hunter smooth moves. Would prefer a taller head tube though.
> 
> Re: reach... Probably been beaten to death but does 2cm longer top tube really make that much more of a difference than 2cm longer stem? I'm running a 50mm stem w 15 degree sweep bars, but might actually bump it back up to 70mm.


Yeah I've thought about trying the Sunrise bars or a set from Oddity, but man the weight is just so hefty..... I figured it would have to effect weight balance and handling some.

On reach, I've noticed some interesting things from experimenting with other bikes. If you push reach/front center out a bit, then shorten the stem by the same amount yet retain the same 68-69° HTA...... it gives you the more stability benefits of the longer front center/wheelbase without killing the handling in fast (and slow) tight trails. I had a large Kona WoZo for a while and did some experimenting with it. At Sag it had a 485mm reach (36mm longer reach than LG Krampus) and a 69.3 HTA. I ran a 35mm shorter stem on it than I have on my Krampus. In steep, chunky terrain it felt more stable and composed with less need to keep the weight back to not go OTBs. Yet still could carve through tight twisty trails at speed with no issue. 
After a bit I put a -1.5° CC Angleset on it which slacked it to 67.7° HTA at sag. This really brought the bike to life in high speed straight line chunky descents but did hurt the ability to carve tight stuff at speed. I felt like the bike climbed better in some techy terrain and worse in other climbing scenarios. It all comes down to personal preference and what trails YOU actually ride the most.


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## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

*OneSpeed* said:


> I'm not a fan of long chainstays on any bike I've owned. The longer they are the worse everything is for me. Not a fan.
> 
> I'm sure my riding style has something to do with it. I'm usually charging pretty hard, out of the saddle a lot, looking for jumps, B-lines, and any obstacle I can find to pounce on or over.
> 
> ...


You and I are cut from the same cloth. Short stays all the way. Steel. Big tires. Myth Talos curious (probably the only production frame I’d consider). B lines, gratuitous sketch, air.

The one thing I’m not sold on though, is longer and slacker for tight uphill switchbacks. I did a local ride last week with probably 50 of these, chunky, tight and steep switchies. It’d been a while since I’d ridden there, and first time on my new longer, slacker bike. I definitely didn’t crush it. Hoping I develop a new technique that makes this kind of riding as much fun as it was on other bikes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

CCSS said:


> The one thing I’m not sold on though, is longer and slacker for tight uphill switchbacks.


Tradeoffs. Usually when you make part of your bike better for one thing it inevitably gets worse at doing something else. Like climbing vs descending

Another way to look at it is a race car analogy. Every time you upgrade the "weak point" of a race car setup, something else becomes the new "weak point". (cornering, braking, accelerating, etc). 

So the weak point on your bike is just constantly moving around as you change geometry and components.


----------



## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

nitrousjunky said:


> One can't help but wonder if they aren't just trying to increase sells numbers on the Sunrise bars.......🤔
> 
> I'd like to see an update with about 10-15mm longer reach (to be offset with shorter stem to keep the bars in the same place) and around 20-30mm longer head tubes. Rest can stay exactly the same IMO. That said, my current one is an absolute pleasure to ride.


I was thinking the exact same thing about the sunrise bars. Sucks to hear they are stiff and heavy. I think Whiskey did a very limit run of a carbon variant of that bar. LBS owner has one, and rep told him to hold onto them as they may be like he's teeth.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

jonshonda said:


> I was thinking the exact same thing about the sunrise bars. Sucks to hear they are stiff and heavy. I think Whiskey did a very limit run of a carbon variant of that bar. LBS owner has one, and rep told him to hold onto them as they may be like he's teeth.


Is that the Whiskey Milhouse bar?

The previously mentioned Hunter Smooth Move high rise bars are another good alternative. They're 75mm tall, rather than 83mm, but other than that, they're really nice. Good bend, super high quality, made by Nitto in Japan. Highly recommended.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

cjbiker said:


> Is that the Whiskey Milhouse bar?


That would be the Milhouse and there is plenty of stock of them now.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

cjbiker said:


> The previously mentioned Hunter Smooth Move high rise bars are another good alternative. They're 75mm tall, rather than 83mm, but other than that, they're really nice. Good bend, super high quality, made by Nitto in Japan. Highly recommended.


So you are pretty happy with the Smooth Move bars? I had forgotten about those and just realized they have a low rise 38mm version as well!


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

nitrousjunky said:


> So you are pretty happy with the Smooth Move bars? I had forgotten about those and just realized they have a low rise 38mm version as well!


Yes, although I have them on a 1x1, not a Krampus. The Krampus with 30mm of spacers and a 20mm riser bar is enough stack for me, I don't need a really tall bar.

Your purple Krampus with the Z2 fork is giving me bad (good) thoughts. Did the fork come with those gray decals, or did you get those somewhere? All I see available now is black w/red or red w/black decals.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

cjbiker said:


> Your purple Krampus with the Z2 fork is giving me bad (good) thoughts. Did the fork come with those gray decals, or did you get those somewhere? All I see available now is black w/red or red w/black decals.


Those are custom decals from Slik Graphics, I can send you the exact colors if desired. 

Yeah I don't necessarily need a tall bar, but a higher rise silver option would be nice.


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

nitrousjunky said:


> So you are pretty happy with the Smooth Move bars? I had forgotten about those and just realized they have a low rise 38mm version as well!


I have the high rise version on my XL Krampus. No spacers with a 120mm fork, 20mm spacers when in rigid mode. I roll the bars slightly forward too with a 50mm stem.

perfect combo of sweep, upsweep and now 780mm width. Not too heavy either and Nitto is one of the best bar makers in the world. I like the smooth moves much more than two pairs of custom steel bars I’ve tried in the past.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

nitrousjunky said:


> That would be the Milhouse and there is plenty of stock of them now.


That may very well be. I don't get out much, just thought they were cool!


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

CCSS said:


> You and I are cut from the same cloth. Short stays all the way. Steel. Big tires. Myth Talos curious (probably the only production frame I’d consider). B lines, gratuitous sketch, air.
> 
> The one thing I’m not sold on though, is longer and slacker for tight uphill switchbacks. I did a local ride last week with probably 50 of these, chunky, tight and steep switchies. It’d been a while since I’d ridden there, and first time on my new longer, slacker bike. I definitely didn’t crush it. Hoping I develop a new technique that makes this kind of riding as much fun as it was on other bikes.
> 
> ...



I think "mid-school" geo is best suited for 90% of the riding most people do. Everyone just wants the latest and greatest.

Wait, what the hell am I doing the the Plus forum......


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## Samsam (11 mo ago)

zachary_miller said:


> Stoked for you Samsam! I still think the OG krampus is one of the best bikes ever built and hence it is still my exclusive mountain bike...
> 
> I'm not using those cranks but wish I still had a pair - they'll last a lifetime! I can't remember if my original Krampus drivetrain had a narrow wide, but I'd doubt it... so if it's the original equipment just snag any 104BCD narrow wide chainring and it ought to hold the chain just fine.
> 
> ...


Thanks! The problem may indeed have been the lack of a narrow wide chainring, but I was also using a 7 speed chain (on a 7 sp cassette), which apparently is less flexible and more prone to dropping from the bigger cogs then a 10 or 11sp chain. Still, seems strange though that atm the chain is straight when in the second cog, instead of in the middle of the cassette, and that's after putting that BB spacer on the non-drive side. Or is that normal when the rear is non-boost? Only other explanation would be that the crank is still not fully in yet, but don't think that's the case

Anyway the rear hub is toast, and the only way to keep using that Rabbit Hole wheel was to singlespeed it. Sometimes the freehub wants to turn with the wheel so maybe it's semi-fixed rather . Not sure how long this bodge is going to hold, but for now it works and I didn't want to invest in a new wheel before knowing whether or not I actually like the Krampus and 29x3.0. Next issue was the rear wheel slipping in the dropouts, but I found a combo that puts the wheel completely forward. When I finally got to ride it, I instantly knew it was a keeper! So much fun the steamroller effect of the big wheels!! The rim has a slight wobble, so according to my local wheelbuilder it might be tricky to reuse it. Might replace with a Raceface AR i35 or i40, but will keep the front Rabbit hole. Thanks everyone for all the advice!


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

Winter commute


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## LBIkid (Mar 16, 2007)




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## marvin rouge (Mar 12, 2013)

Loren0090 said:


> I'm 6'3" on an XL krampus. Id keep mostly the same geo except a taller head tube so I didn't have to run riser bars.


It’s a truth universally acknowledged that the head tube length is way out of kilter on the larger sizes. At 6’4”, I run 130cm of spacers. 🙄 At least in krampacking mode you’d hardly know. 😃


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## nerdherder (10 mo ago)

hi all,

building up a medium first loser!

i've been working the build and have a few questions before i order a bunch of parts...

the surly site says 203mm rotors fit f/r, can members with newer gen krampus frames verify this? any pics of clearance? i searched and couldn't find any answers or pics. a youtube video or two mentioned with the dropouts in the full forward position a 180mm rotor _barely_ fits in the rear.

i'm having mikesee build up my wheels, using boost spacing onyx classic hubs but had a question on rotor size. on the fence w/r/t brakes as well, but leaning dominion a4 or code rsc. not sure if that would affect clearance either. think 203's would fit f/r?

also, crank and q factor. anyone know if there's a minimum q factor to consider when fitting boost spacing cranks to the frame? i'm new to this, but imagine that q factor varies with crank/spindle/bb selections?

i'm leaning toward race face turbine r's in 170mm or sram gx alu in 165, with cane creek hellbender 70bb (i liked the fact it didn't require a load of spacers to fit a 73mm bb shell), with cane creek preload adjuster. turbine's seem to have a 180mm q factor, the gx alu 169mm q factor....how noticeable would this be? anybody here running current gx or turbines on their krampus?

realize a may be mixing up parts/standards/etc. here, but it's the first bike i've build up since the 'one size fits all' days of the 90's, so help school me......and since no one seems to make silver cranks anymore, i guess i'm stuck with black or some other color that will 100% rub off over time, unless i want to go mega $$ ee wings, white ind., or hope and wait a year. 

thanks in advance all!!!
nerdh


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## epittman (Apr 4, 2021)

I can confirm that 203mm works up from (with the appropriate caliper adaptor). I did 180mm on the rear and I agree it looks about as tight as I would consider.


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Snuggnut


For SS folks on here, do you use 1 or 2 snuggnuts? I have 1 on the driveside but notice the wheel still shifts slightly over time.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Loren0090 said:


> For SS folks on here, do you use 1 or 2 snuggnuts? I have 1 on the driveside but notice the wheel still shifts slightly over time.


Just one on the drive side. I'm a strong rider and it's been rock solid on multiple bikes for me.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

Loren0090 said:


> For SS folks on here, do you use 1 or 2 snuggnuts? I have 1 on the driveside but notice the wheel still shifts slightly over time.


I had this issue with my Krampus running a sturmey archer 3spd hub. I found that the tugnut would center the axle on the driveside, but the other side had a certain degree of freedom to move up/down in the dropout slot. 
This meant that even tho I would carefully center the offside front/back vs the driveside - it could be crooked up/down. This meant that it wasn't quite where all was even and the axle had a little slop that would allow it to move under pressure.
For an SA hub, the "anti-turn" washer is usually asymetrical:








which would still allow the axle to drop to the bottom. So I found a symetrical version:







this one keeps the axle centered top/bottom.

For a conventional hub/axle? A bit harder, but could drill out one of these washers. Good luck.


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

Loren0090 said:


> For SS folks on here, do you use 1 or 2 snuggnuts? I have 1 on the driveside but notice the wheel still shifts slightly over time.


I use 1 but occasionally had some movement in the beginning. 

I found it was important to torque to Surly spec 17nm. No issues after that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Travolta (Oct 26, 2016)

Loren0090 said:


> For SS folks on here, do you use 1 or 2 snuggnuts? I have 1 on the driveside but notice the wheel still shifts slightly over time.


nothing.
old green Krampus. shimano closed cam qr. handtighty. no slipping.


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## Samsam (11 mo ago)

Does anyone know whether offset rims can cause clearance issues in the original moonlit swamp krampus? I'm looking at the Race Face AR(C) 40 in combination with the Knard

I'm asking because on the rabbit hole rims, the spokes are VERY close to the brake caliper on the fork, sometimes touching

and there's not that much clearance for the rear tire either, in case an offset rim would move the tire more to the left or right?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Samsam said:


> and there's not that much clearance for the rear tire either, in case an offset rim would move the tire more to the left or right?


Not sure about the spoke clearance on the caliper, but the tire should be centered in the frame regardless of what rim is used. This is what dishing is for.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Samsam said:


> Does anyone know whether offset rims can cause clearance issues in the original moonlit swamp krampus? I'm looking at the Race Face AR(C) 40 in combination with the Knard
> 
> I'm asking because on the rabbit hole rims, the spokes are VERY close to the brake caliper on the fork, sometimes touching
> 
> and there's not that much clearance for the rear tire either, in case an offset rim would move the tire more to the left or right?


I have a pair of ARC 40 rims waiting to be laced up for my OG Krampus. As OneSpeed said, the rim/tire should be centered, so that won't be an issue. The front offset will help spoke-to-caliper clearance. The Rabbit Hole rims are bad in that regard because the left spokes go to the holes offset to the left, pushing them closer to the caliper.


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## Samsam (11 mo ago)

Ok great thanks, didn't know that. And good to know that the AR or ARC rims are a good option. Around here they are the only available option  Was going back and forth between the i35 and i40 version, but since I'm 200 lbs and also love the rabbit holes, guess I better stick with the wider rims.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Samsam said:


> Ok great thanks, didn't know that. And good to know that the AR or ARC rims are a good option. Around here they are the only available option  Was going back and forth between the i35 and i40 version, but since I'm 200 lbs and also love the rabbit holes, guess I better stick with the wider rims.


The ARC rims are great, I've been running a set of the original non-offset 45s on my second gen Krampus for several years now, with no issues. I built up a set of offset 40s for another bike this spring, and no complaints there, either. I wish they still made the 45. You don't want 35s if you're running 2.8 to 3 inch wide tires, IMHO.


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## Samsam (11 mo ago)

Ok, that was going to be my next question, whether they were going to be tough enough for krampus abuse. The only other option in i40 I can find around here seems to be the WTB KOM Tough


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Samsam said:


> Ok, that was going to be my next question, whether they were going to be tough enough for krampus abuse. The only other option in i40 I can find around here seems to be the WTB KOM Tough



I build all 3 of these with some regularity -- 6-8 per week on average.

The WTB KOM Tough i40's are the most resistant to denting. So you could call them the most durable _rim_ of the 3.

But the ARC and AR both build into more durable _wheels_.


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## Samsam (11 mo ago)

ok that's interesting. Can you explain how come? Do they allow for higher spoke tension?


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## Samsam (11 mo ago)

back with another question guys, is a bolt thru/thru bolt rear hub advisable with the OG krampus? Or is quick release fine when running gears? Didn't notice much slipping with the old wheel, but that was SS and all the way forward in the dropouts..


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Samsam said:


> ok that's interesting. Can you explain how come? Do they allow for higher spoke tension?



Amount of spoke tension is largely irrelevant.

It's that the offset spoke bed on the AR/C rims allows the tension to be more balanced side to side.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Samsam said:


> back with another question guys, is a bolt thru/thru bolt rear hub advisable with the OG krampus? Or is quick release fine when running gears? Didn't notice much slipping with the old wheel, but that was SS and all the way forward in the dropouts..


I'm using a Salsa Flip Off QR skewer on the back of my OG Krampus. It's an external cam skewer, so it doesn't clamp as tight as, say, a Shimano internal cam, but I still haven't had any issues. I'd say solid axles are unnecessary.


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## Samsam (11 mo ago)

cjbiker said:


> I'm using a Salsa Flip Off QR skewer on the back of my OG Krampus. It's an external cam skewer, so it doesn't clamp as tight as, say, a Shimano internal cam, but I still haven't had any issues. I'd say solid axles are unnecessary.


Ok good to hear. I was reading older posts were some people mentioned one side of the rear wheel slipping slightly backwards sometimes causing rotor rub. I would like to avoid adding a big wrench to the repair kit  The Krampus is my first bike with horizontal dropouts, so pretty new to this


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## Samsam (11 mo ago)

mikesee said:


> Amount of spoke tension is largely irrelevant.
> 
> It's that the offset spoke bed on the AR/C rims allows the tension to be more balanced side to side.


aha ok that makes sense, now the only decision that is left is AR vs ARC and the krampus will be up and running again


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

My turn for a random Krampus question. Anyone know what a size large Gen 1 Krampus frame and/or frame+fork weighs? I know weight is irrelevant for Surlys, but I'm curious.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

😔


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

Summer mode krampus!


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## Samsam (11 mo ago)

cjbiker said:


> My turn for a random Krampus question. Anyone know what a size large Gen 1 Krampus frame and/or frame+fork weighs? I know weight is irrelevant for Surlys, but I'm curious.


I wanted to do this, but got too excited and before I knew it, parts were on and I forgot to weigh the frame. I did weigh the fork though, but apparently didn't write it down  I do remember it was somewhere between 1000 and 1100 grams, 1090 or something


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## Samsam (11 mo ago)

back with another OG Krampus question: best way to get low gearing? Changed the 36 chainring for a 32, but what is the biggest cassette you were able to fit? I realize I might need to buy a new derailleur, because the original 10-speed SLX one apparently does not take a bigger cassette then the 11-36?


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Samsam said:


> back with another OG Krampus question: best way to get low gearing? Changed the 36 chainring for a 32, but what is the biggest cassette you were able to fit? I realize I might need to buy a new derailleur, because the original 10-speed SLX one apparently does not take a bigger cassette then the 11-36?


I'm running an 11spd drivetrain on mine with a Shimano derailleur and shifter, Sunrace 11-50 cassette, and a Wolftooth Goat Link. 30t front sprocket, BTW. 

There may be a similar cassette and derailleur extender that you can get for a 10spd drivetrain.


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## Samsam (11 mo ago)

cjbiker said:


> I'm running an 11spd drivetrain on mine with a Shimano derailleur and shifter, Sunrace 11-50 cassette, and a Wolftooth Goat Link. 30t front sprocket, BTW.
> 
> There may be a similar cassette and derailleur extender that you can get for a 10spd drivetrain.


Ok Great! No chain rub against the tire?


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Samsam said:


> Ok Great! No chain rub against the tire?


No chain rub on the tire.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Finally got around to lacing up the Raceface ARC 40 offset rims for my OG Krampus. Threw on some XR2 tires.










It's funny, I had said that the Salsa QR skewer holds the rear wheel just fine, but I was bedding in the brake pads, and the rear wheel kept slipping in the dropouts. I'll replace it with a Shimano QR.


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## accutrax (Mar 22, 2008)

Samsam said:


> I realize I might need to buy a new derailleur, because the original 10-speed SLX one apparently does not take a bigger cassette then the 11-36?


the max range for the 10-speed SLX derailleur RD M670 SGS is 11-40 teeth...
with a Woftooth Goat Link for 10-speed derailleurs it should be 42 ...


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## zachary_miller (May 10, 2013)

accutrax said:


> the max range for the 10-speed SLX derailleur RD M670 SGS is 11-40 teeth...
> with a Woftooth Goat Link for 10-speed derailleurs it should be 42 ...


This is technically true but I've certainly maxxed out the b-screw and coaxed a few stubborn 10spd shimano derailleurs into playing friendly with 11-42 SunRace cassettes over the past few years without the need for a Goatlink. If you're keen on keeping it cheap and dirtbag - buy the 11-42 cassette and give it a whirl with the derailleur you've got before spending more? If you end up replacing it, the shimano M5120 is pretty sweet in that it plays well with 10 and 11 speed cassettes/shifters AND tolerates a 46t max.


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## zachary_miller (May 10, 2013)

Loren0090 said:


> Summer mode krampus!
> View attachment 1985633


Lovely purple whip! How do you like those McFly's?


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

zachary_miller said:


> Lovely purple whip! How do you like those McFly's?


I dig them so far! Decent grip and a nice tire profile.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

zachary_miller said:


> Lovely purple whip! How do you like those McFly's?


 I'm on my second set for my Krampus, theyre really nice and seem to last a long time as well. So much lighter than the stock dirt wizards.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Samsam said:


> back with another OG Krampus question: best way to get low gearing? Changed the 36 chainring for a 32, but what is the biggest cassette you were able to fit? I realize I might need to buy a new derailleur, because the original 10-speed SLX one apparently does not take a bigger cassette then the 11-36?


I'm running a 30t with 11-42 10 speed cassette with a stock Zee mech on my Krampus. The Zee mech is also meant to only take 11-36 but it works at 42 you just need to get the b-tension right.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Current build. 2.3 Vigis F+R


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Loren0090 said:


> Summer mode krampus!
> View attachment 1985633


That purple is well nice. Are you running a -2 headset?


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

fartymarty said:


> That purple is well nice. Are you running a -2 headset?


Thanks! Nah, just a standard headset.


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## fartymarty (Jul 7, 2016)

Latest latest build with 140 Pikes.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

And my latest build, Bruised Ego Purple with a Monē biplane fork:










So far, I'm really impressed with the Deore M5100 11spd stuff. Shifts the 11-51 tooth cassette very well.


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

cjbiker said:


> And my latest build, Bruised Ego Purple with a Monē biplane fork:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've been eyeing up that mone fork too... How are you liking it? Significant improvement from the stock fork?


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Loren0090 said:


> I've been eyeing up that mone fork too... How are you liking it? Significant improvement from the stock fork?


I haven't ridden it enough to say for sure yet. It seems to have more flex than the stock fork. That could be good or bad, depending on what you're looking for. I'll report back when I have some more miles on it.


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

cjbiker said:


> I haven't ridden it enough to say for sure yet. It seems to have more flex than the stock fork. That could be good or bad, depending on what you're looking for. I'll report back when I have some more miles on it.


I generally consider more fork flex a good thing for rough terrain, curious to hear your feedback as you log in some miles. Cheers!


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

I got out for a short trail ride this evening. It's hard to quantify the fork flex, especially when you're running 3" wide tires at 10psi but it seems good. Not too noodley, but not harsh, either. I do get a bit of brake rub when I stand and hammer, but then again, I'm running BB7s, and they rub if the wind changes direction.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

cjbiker said:


> I got out for a short trail ride this evening. It's hard to quantify the fork flex, especially when you're running 3" wide tires at 10psi but it seems good. Not too noodley, but not harsh, either. I do get a bit of brake rub when I stand and hammer, but then again, I'm running BB7s, and they rub if the wind changes direction.


I put one of these boost version Moné forks on my ROS9+ rides awesome, have a 200mm disc with XT no rubbing. Really like the way it rides and handles.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Shuffled some parts around and ended up with this:










Medium "Ops" frame, SLX/XT 11spd drivetrain with Sunrace 11-50t cassette, BB7 brakes (of course), Works -2° angleset. The 3" DHR barely fits with the wheel slammed forward. I had tried the angleset before, but wasn't crazy about it. I've been riding other bikes with slacker HTAs this spring, so I thought I'd give it another shot on the Krampus, and it seems pretty good now.


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## WillDB (Jul 15, 2020)

I've been enjoying plus tires since the first Knards graced my doorstep. When the first Krampus came out, I was excited that Surly made a new platform that pushed the envelope. I tried it and _liked it_ but didn't love it. I wanted a hard tail, despite the cushy tires and all they brought to the table. In 2017, Surly made some nice modifications to their hardtail line, bringing their bikes into the 21st century. I lusted after a Krampus, but I could never find one that fit a shorter rider that likes to get rowdy.

Fast forward several years and I arrived at:









Small Krampus frame, Shimano cranks. PNW Loam Dropper. PNW Range Bars. Fox 34 "unicorn" Grip2 with plenty of travel. I've always run Shimano SLX derailleurs and opted for the 12spd version with XT shifters. Brakes are stock hydros, which will be swapped to Hayes Dominions next week. XR2/4 are waiting for a Knard failure (not if but when....). I almost always run SPDs but I am recovering from nerve damage in my left foot and opted for large flats, PNW Loam pedals. Large, grey, amazing bearings, and grip for days.

So far I have 62 XC trail miles on this bike (built on Friday) and am just loving it. My favorite component is obviously the fork. There is just an unbelievable amount of phase space to tinker in. It's almost too much. After two days I dialed in the settings on my local trails, took a page out of Ron Popeil's playbook and decided to "Set it and forget it". Of course, when I head toward the cascades, this will have to change.

Another favorite component are the wheels. DT Swiss 350 hubs laced to RaceFace ARC 40 rims using DT Swiss Competition double-butted spokes. I'm a smaller rider, I could have opted for something much lighter and infinitely louder. I thought long and hard about what I wanted, needed, and couldn't live without. Loud wheels annoy me. When I'm riding XC, I want to hear what's around me. I want, actually _need_ my bike to be silent. I opted for DT Swiss 350 hubs with 18T ratchets because they are nearly silent. I went to a bike park a few weekends ago and used the 54t ratchets I have in my parts bin and it was...unbearable. As soon as I had my bike in the stand, I removed the rear wheel, sonicated the 18T in some isopropanol and replaced it with a few dabs of grease and the silence was deafening.

Another feature of the Krampus is the high (to modern standards) bottom bracket. I can easily swap out wheels and run 29x2.6 XR2/4s and just rip without the consequences of pedal strikes on technical climbs.

Looking forward to many more miles.

Edit: Included info about wheels and why they actually _might_ be my favorite component.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

Like many other things in the bike industry the Krampus and Karate Monkey have been in short supply recently. I see that Surly has some new Karate Monkey colors coming out soon so I’m assuming they are going to have them available for sale. Anyone know the availabilty of Krampus frames? New colors coming soon?


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

Handles a 130mm pike fine. Swapped back for the 2.6 dirt wizards. Yes, not the lightest or fastest rolling tires, but they hook up in all sorts of dirt conditions. Swapped bars for wider and less backsweep. And even hit a bike park this weekend. Everytime I swing a leg over this bike it never fails to produce a smile!


----------



## WillDB (Jul 15, 2020)

Loren0090 said:


> Handles a 130mm pike fine. Swapped back for the 2.6 dirt wizards. Yes, not the lightest or fastest rolling tires, but they hook up in all sorts of dirt conditions. Swapped bars for wider and less backsweep. And even hit a bike park this weekend. Everytime I swing a leg over this bike it never fails to produce a smile!


I really like the Bontrager XR2 2.6. Faster rolling, although a bit more terrifying under the right conditions.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

noosa2 said:


> Like many other things in the bike industry the Krampus and Karate Monkey have been in short supply recently. I see that Surly has some new Karate Monkey colors coming out soon so I’m assuming they are going to have them available for sale. Anyone know the availabilty of Krampus frames? New colors coming soon?


New Krampus/KM colors and builds were very hard to come by over the last few years, and I just don't think anyone will have a good idea on availability until, well....they become available. If a lot of these smaller companies could afford to, it might be a good idea to keep this supply and demand micky mouse bullsh!t up for a while fuel the hype, but I am not sure if the demand is there to facilitate that. 



atomiccityfun said:


> I really like the Bontrager XR2 2.6. Faster rolling, although a bit more terrifying under the right conditions.


I love me the XR4/XR2 combo. You know the XR4 has your front if the XR2 is getting a little squirrely out back.


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## bolo (Sep 30, 2009)

Surly krampus with rolhoff









Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using Tapatalk


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## WillDB (Jul 15, 2020)

noosa2 said:


> Like many other things in the bike industry the Krampus and Karate Monkey have been in short supply recently. I see that Surly has some new Karate Monkey colors coming out soon so I’m assuming they are going to have them available for sale. Anyone know the availabilty of Krampus frames? New colors coming soon?


No clue on the availability.

The price jump to $1000/frameset is just insanity. I realize the supply chain is fooked and inflation is a thing, but for $1000 more I can get a custom frame with hand selected tubing and as many zits as I can shake a stick at. Welded here in these United States.

If I was looking for a new 4130 frameset, I would look elsewhere.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

noosa2 said:


> Like many other things in the bike industry the Krampus and Karate Monkey have been in short supply recently. I see that Surly has some new Karate Monkey colors coming out soon so I’m assuming they are going to have them available for sale. Anyone know the availabilty of Krampus frames? New colors coming soon?


New colors are up on the Surly website: Steel 29+ Mountain Bike | Krampus

Availability is anyone's guess.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

cjbiker said:


> New colors are up on the Surly website: Steel 29+ Mountain Bike | Krampus
> 
> Availability is anyone's guess.


And I note that when you scroll down to the bottom, the "complete" option is scribbled out - implying that they are only selling framesets.

Also, that is NOT british racing green - more like olive. NTTAWWT. And tho the goldish color is also ok, the name "nose drip curry" is another of those crappy color names they give - like "skidmark brown" for coffee brown metallic.


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## Space Robot (Sep 13, 2008)

wadester said:


> Also, that is NOT british racing green - more like olive.


I thought the same. But maybe it’s an inside joke.

Hard to tell what the yellow looks like on a screen. That could vary quite a bit and look pretty horrible in person.

School bus is the only proper yellow hue, lol. 🚌

Although I used to have a Salsa Casseroll in a metallic mustard color with dark red logos which was cool.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

wadester said:


> And I note that when you scroll down to the bottom, the "complete" option is scribbled out - implying that they are only selling framesets.
> 
> Also, that is NOT british racing green - more like olive. NTTAWWT. And tho the goldish color is also ok, the name "nose drip curry" is another of those crappy color names they give - like "skidmark brown" for coffee brown metallic.


I can't say that I'm a fan of any of the new Karate Monkey or Krampus colors, as they show up on my monitor. Maybe they're better in real life.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Tangled Up In Blue is the goat.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Sorry, Moonlit Swamp Green takes the title, IMHO.


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

cjbiker said:


> I can't say that I'm a fan of any of the new Karate Monkey or Krampus colors, as they show up on my monitor. Maybe they're better in real life.


Surly colors almost always look better in real life than whatever crappy disposable camera they use in their studio.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

cjbiker said:


> Sorry, Moonlit Swamp Green takes the title, IMHO.


Yeah...if you're color blind! haha I did enjoy the Moonlit when I had it, but that shade of green, on anything.....just doesn't appeal to me. Well, maybe if it was a bikini on (insert hot girls name here) then I might change my mind.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

jonshonda said:


> Yeah...if you're color blind! haha I did enjoy the Moonlit when I had it, but that shade of green, on anything.....just doesn't appeal to me. Well, maybe if it was a bikini on (insert hot girls name here) then I might change my mind.


No accounting for taste, haha. It's funny, I don't even like green, and I'd never choose any shade of it for anything, but that deep sparkly green just works on the Krampus.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I showed my son the British Racing Green last night and now we have one on order. Should look pretty cool parked next to his Army Green Growler.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

NYrr496 said:


> I showed my son the British Racing Green last night and now we have one on order. Should look pretty cool parked next to his Army Green Growler.


I was just about to text you wondering if you wanted a XL Tangled Up In Blue! Guess that is a NO!


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

jonshonda said:


> I was just about to text you wondering if you wanted a XL Tangled Up In Blue! Guess that is a NO!


WHY? I can cancel the order.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

NYrr496 said:


> I showed my son the British Racing Green last night and now we have one on order. Should look pretty cool parked next to his Army Green Growler.


Who did you order from? Did they indicate that the frames were in stock?


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

noosa2 said:


> Who did you order from? Did they indicate that the frames were in stock?


No. I'm sure it is not. I just call my guy at the bike shop and sooner or later, it will show up. Like I said in the Surly thread about the Bridge Club I have on order, I have other bikes. He told me 2023. It gets here when it gets here.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

NYrr496 said:


> WHY? I can cancel the order.


I'm having some sort of mid-life crises and found a Vassago Optimus Ti XL a week after finding the Krampus. So the Krampus will hit the chopping block, along with a frame bag, 140mm Pike, a fork with a cut steerer, and a brand new fork with an uncut steerer.


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## DaddyFatStax (Dec 10, 2018)

no love for Bruised Ego? If we're talking goat Krampus colors it deserves an honorable mention. To me it's either that or 'swamp.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

One of my friends has a Bruised Ego SS Kramp. it is a sweet color.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

Hmm. All Krampii colors since the beginning;

Moonlit Swamp - The OG color, I've got one and call it "Bass Boat"









Black Matte - it's just flat black

Pickled Beet Red - Yeah, it's just a nice brown









Andy's Apple Red - A real red, the best red









Dark Black - It's just black.

Bruised Ego Purple - Navy/Purple varies with light. Very pretty, def one of the best colors IMHO









Tangled Up In Blue - A nice light blue









Static Sunset - I've got one of these and it really is sunset orange









First Loser - It's just silver

Demonic Sparkle Party - Black, but with red metalflake. The stealthiest color. Can look like anything in the brown/purple/black range depending on light. I've got one of these too.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

wadester said:


> Hmm. All Krampii colors since the beginning;
> 
> Moonlit Swamp - The OG color, I've got one and call it "Bass Boat"
> View attachment 1995764
> ...


Andy's Apple Red came before Pickled Beet. The PB was supposed to be apple red, but they messed up the order on that run of frames.

Bruised Ego is highly underrated, IMHO. 

They're rare, but there's a few Smurf blue Krampus frames floating around out there. Rumor is that the sparkly Moonlit Swamp was too expensive, so employee discount bikes got the cheaper blue paint. Not sure how much of that is true...


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

I may be biased, but I think Moonlit Swamp and Bruised Ego are the best 2 colors. That's the 2 colors of it I've owned as well....


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

I would vote for Bruised Ego as the best Krampus color to date. 

Sparkle Party is great in person but rarely looks as good in photos.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

AOK said:


> I would vote for Bruised Ego as the best Krampus color to date.
> 
> Sparkle Party is great in person but rarely looks as good in photos.


Only when a photog uses light properly...


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)




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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

All this purple Krampus talk, I had to take mine for a spin.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

cjbiker said:


> All this purple Krampus talk, I had to take mine for a spin.


Decide you prefer the stock fork over the Mone?


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

nitrousjunky said:


> Decide you prefer the stock fork over the Mone?


It's a long story. I liked the Mone fork a lot and wish it had worked out for me, but the stock is better for my use.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

cjbiker said:


> It's a long story. I liked the Mone fork a lot and wish it had worked out for me, but the stock is better for my use.


Slightly OT, but I'm curious if you notice a difference in ride quality between the two?


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Slightly OT, but I'm curious if you notice a difference in ride quality between the two?


Yes, Monē fork feels much springier and flexible.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

cjbiker said:


> Yes, Monē fork feels much springier and flexible.


I've been thinking about a custom fork for the Krampus. Mone, Walt, Oddity, Blacksheep truss??? Not sure which way Ill end up going?


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

cjbiker said:


> All this purple Krampus talk, I had to take mine for a spin.


Love the brass bell and tumbleweed bars... Making me want to go back to rigid mode!


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## ilikepizza (Aug 22, 2016)

I have a current version Krampus with stock Deore crankset and 30t ring, spec sheet attached. I want to go 32t upfront but have no idea if that’s possible (surly says 30t is max on website) or what it would take to do so. Can anyone shed some light onto what that would entail?


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## WillDB (Jul 15, 2020)

ilikepizza said:


> I have a current version Krampus with stock Deore crankset and 30t ring, spec sheet attached. I want to go 32t upfront but have no idea if that’s possible (surly says 30t is max on website) or what it would take to do so. Can anyone shed some light onto what that would entail?
> View attachment 2001514


32t works fine on a boost Krampus. No chain rub.


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## Space Robot (Sep 13, 2008)

@ilikepizza did you find that a 30 tooth didn't have enough top speed?

Trying to figure out what cranks to put on a Krampus. I have a non-boost hub and the max for that is 1x, 28 tooth. Seems pretty small.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

30 tooth chainring on a non-Boost (older Deore 2x crankset converted to 1x with an SLX chainring) on a 2nd gen Krampus:









32 tooth chainring on a new Deore 1x11 crankset (52mm chainline, which Shimano says is good for boost and non-boost!?) on a 2nd gen:









And just for fun, a 30 tooth chainring on a 1x SLX non-boost crankset on an OG Krampus:









YRMV, of course.


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## ilikepizza (Aug 22, 2016)

Space Robot said:


> @ilikepizza did you find that a 30 tooth didn't have enough top speed?


Thanks all, super helpful. Yes, I’m looking for higher max speed, I’d like to be able to push harder on flats or not spin out as fast on gradual descents, and that’s with a 10t small cog in the back.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I just bought an XL frameset from Johnshonda for my son. We opened it up and my boy isn’t in love with the color. He’s eyein’ up powder coat color chips. Let you all know when it goes together. It’s Tangled Up in Blue. 
Curious to see where he goes with it.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

NYrr496 said:


> I just bought an XL frameset from *Jonshonda* for my son. We opened it up and my boy isn’t in love with the color. He’s eyein’ up powder coat color chips. Let you all know when it goes together. It’s Tangled Up in Blue.
> Curious to see where he goes with it.


Ughhh, that's my favorite Krampus color! That boy of yours...idk! haha


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I know. He was talking about red. I said eeiw, really?


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

Anyone running a set of wide drop bars or the new Surly corner bars on their krampus? Particularly a L or XL -- and if so how much saddle to bar drop you have, and if it's comfortable?


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Loren0090 said:


> Anyone running a set of wide drop bars or the new Surly corner bars on their krampus? Particularly a L or XL -- and if so how much saddle to bar drop you have, and if it's comfortable?


I run the Jones risers on my XL. Love em. I know it isn’t what you asked but they are different than regular bars.


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

NYrr496 said:


> I run the Jones risers on my XL. Love em. I know it isn’t what you asked but they are different than regular bars.


Cool, and good to know! Looking to mix it up to make the mild trails where I live more interesting. But on the XL there's already quite a bit of saddle to bar drop and I'm running riser style bars. Drops could be fun though I'd probably need a mountain of spacers to get em up high enough.


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## Gravitt (3 mo ago)

Hello everybody! I'm new member 
I'm going to buy Krampus - the question ist - what frame should I get - L or XL ? I’m 6‘1“ with 35“ inseam. 
Any chance you can help me to decide what size would be the right one?
The problem is, I can not find this bike to test it


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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

Gravitt said:


> Hello everybody! I'm new member
> I'm going to buy Krampus - the question ist - what frame should I get - L or XL ? I’m 6‘1“ with 35“ inseam.
> Any chance you can help me to decide what size would be the right one?
> The problem is, I can not find this bike to test it


I'm on an XL, about 6'3", and run my saddle height at 81-82cm from center of BB to top of saddle.


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## marvin rouge (Mar 12, 2013)

Gravitt said:


> I'm going to buy Krampus - the question ist - what frame should I get - L or XL ? I’m 6‘1“ with 35“ inseam.


I’d say XL. The Krampus is not overly long by today’s standards so the reach of an XL (464mm) should be fine at your height. I’m 6’3” and my preferred reach is 480mm, but 464 does me ok as it’s my bikepacker.

On the other hand the XL stack at 626 mm is very low. I’m 6’3” and run a stack of spacers to overcome this - again, wouldn’t be a problem for you I’d say.

Do you have an existing bike to compare stack and reach? These are the key measurements.


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## marvin rouge (Mar 12, 2013)

Here’s mine undressed… frame looks a bit small for my 6’3” ay, but not so bad dressed.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

marvin rouge said:


> Here’s mine undressed… frame looks a bit small for my 6’3” ay
> 
> View attachment 2003344


^ Yeah, I've got a stack of spacers and a riser bar. 6'3". 

Side note: I don't think I'd trust a carbon steer tube with that many spacers. (The manufacturer may even have a maximum recommendation?) At minimum you should have a small 5mm spacer *above* your stem so the entire stem is engaged on the carbon steer tube. Cheers.


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## marvin rouge (Mar 12, 2013)

*OneSpeed* said:


> Side note: I don't think I'd trust a carbon steer tube with that many spacers. (The manufacturer may even have a maximum recommendation?) At minimum you should have a small 5mm spacer *above* your stem so the entire stem is engaged on the carbon steer tube. Cheers.


Yeah… true. I’ve gone back to the stock steel fork anyways - so a bit safer now. It took me a while to understand that weight is irrelevant when bikepacking.


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## Gravitt (3 mo ago)

marvin rouge said:


> I’d say XL. The Krampus is not overly long by today’s standards so the reach of an XL (464mm) should be fine at your height. I’m 6’3” and my preferred reach is 480mm, but 464 does me ok as it’s my bikepacker.
> 
> On the other hand the XL stack at 626 mm is very low. I’m 6’3” and run a stack of spacers to overcome this - again, wouldn’t be a problem for you I’d say.
> 
> ...


I'm riding Breezer Radar X size M


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## Gravitt (3 mo ago)

the difference - dropbar vs flatbar. When we look at the geometry of the krampus L it is longer than M by breezer. 
Krampus L with a short stem would have a similar position...  
I don't mind sitting a bit more upright. Krampus is not meant to be a bike for madness ride , but rather for everyday use, for bags but also fun to ride.


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## Gravitt (3 mo ago)




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## 916062 (Aug 3, 2021)

^wow that is an impressive stack of spacers. FWIW I run a 50mm length stem and 3" riser bars. No spacers below with a 130mm susp fork, and 20mm spacers below the stem when I have the stock rigid fork on.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

the Jones risers work for me without a ton of spacers.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NYrr496 said:


> View attachment 2003365
> 
> the Jones risers work for me without a ton of spacers.


Ya but you're hunched over from osteoporosis...


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Anyone running a 32t oval on an MK2? Will it clear?


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## Padimir (May 11, 2020)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> Anyone running a 32t oval on an MK2? Will it clear?


I ran a 32t race face oval but I had to flip it.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Padimir said:


> I ran a 32t race face oval but I had to flip it.


Thanks for the reply, 3mm boost spacing?


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## Padimir (May 11, 2020)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> Thanks for the reply, 3mm boost spacing?


Yeah the 3mm boost one but I flipped it outwards. I ride ss so I don't know how well it'd do on a geared.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Jun 10, 2009)

Padimir said:


> Yeah the 3mm boost one but I flipped it outwards. I ride ss so I don't know how well it'd do on a geared.


Ah, makes sense…good to know. I’m not going to try it geared like that, can’t imagine the chain line on a set-up like that working out very well at all.


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## Zeak (19 d ago)

New bike day! I’ve been threatening to get a Unit, Karate Monkey, or Krampus for a few years and finally took the leap. Images of the British Racing Green Krampus aren’t common so here’s mine. I got 8 miles on it today and the ride was great, definitely happy with the decision.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Zeak said:


> New bike day! I’ve been threatening to get a Unit, Karate Monkey, or Krampus for a few years and finally took the leap. Images of the British Racing Green Krampus aren’t common so here’s mine. I got 8 miles on it today and the ride was great, definitely happy with the decision.


Good stuff! Adventure is at hand.


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## Zeak (19 d ago)

I’ve been favoring my RLT9 steel over my Jamis D29 on trails the past few years and this Krampus takes that to a whole new level.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Zeak said:


> I’ve been favoring my RLT9 steel over my Jamis D29 on trails the past few years and this Krampus takes that to a whole new level.


I can imagine. 
Having ridden my buddy's OG Moonlit Swamp bike on a number of occasions, the bikes just work like a magic 2wheel carpet.

you are in for some good times, Mr.!!


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## Wombath (Nov 13, 2020)

Hi guys,

I am thinking about building up a new Krampus, but since I can not test ride it, I am a bit stuck with sizing. I am 5' 6" tall with a 30.5 inseam. Is anyone with similar measurements riding a medium, or should I stick with the small? Surly's website lists the standover height even for the small at 30.3 inches (for the medium it is 31.4 inches), which sounds ridiculously tall, and would mean that even the small is too big for me. The bike would be used for bikepacking and general flow trails, nothing too hardcore – I have a full suspension bike (size medium with a much longer reach) for that.


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

Well, I'm not your size (5'9", 33" inseam), but I've got a med Krampus (Demonic Sparkle Party).










Pic is from Surly of Med - but with suspension where mine has rigid fork. Measuring TT height at the saddle nose (hits right about where the seat stays tie in) is 27", and it's 32" tall about 10" forward of that.about even with the "S" on the Surly decal.
Measurements taken standing upright of carpet with no weight on bike.


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