# My crown race on my headset is too loose?



## upNdown (Jan 12, 2004)

I just installed a Cane Creek S2 headset on an old Super T and was able to press the crown race all the way to the crown with only my thumbs. Seems to me thats too loose. I tried the race on a newer Manitou steerer and it was equally loose on that, so I don't believe its a problem with the Super T steerer. Anyway when I got the fork completely installed, there was play there. When I held the brake and pushed the fork back and forth, you could see the crown race moving. I fired an email off to Cane Creek, but I'd like to know if anybody here has ever had this problem and if anything can be done about it. Is it a problem with the S2, or do I just have a bad race, or what?
Thanks.


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## SuperBad (Jan 5, 2004)

upNdown said:


> I just installed a Cane Creek S2 headset on an old Super T and was able to press the crown race all the way to the crown with only my thumbs. Seems to me thats too loose. I tried the race on a newer Manitou steerer and it was equally loose on that, so I don't believe its a problem with the Super T steerer. Anyway when I got the fork completely installed, there was play there. When I held the brake and pushed the fork back and forth, you could see the crown race moving. I fired an email off to Cane Creek, but I'd like to know if anybody here has ever had this problem and if anything can be done about it. Is it a problem with the S2, or do I just have a bad race, or what?
> Thanks.


Are you sure you used the crown race and not the piece that goes at the top of the headset? There is a very similarly shaped piece that goes on just before the cover. I think it helps to put the preload onto the top bearings.
SB


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## upNdown (Jan 12, 2004)

*99% sure...*



SuperBad said:


> Are you sure you used the crown race and not the piece that goes at the top of the headset? There is a very similarly shaped piece that goes on just before the cover. I think it helps to put the preload onto the top bearings.
> SB


 I'm 99% sure. I mean, I installed it in the order it came out of the package. And CC packages their headsets nicely. Besides, the rest of the headset fits together perfectly and functions perfectly. I don't believe thats my problem.


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

i doubt it, some races seem to go on tighter than others with certain steerers. If you can remove the race by simply slidding it off with no effort, or spin it with your fingers, then its possible the race is off spec. The fact you can see the race shift most likely means you didnt tighten or install the headset together properly.


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## upNdown (Jan 12, 2004)

zedro said:


> i doubt it, some races seem to go on tighter than others with certain steerers. If you can remove the race by simply slidding it off with no effort, or spin it with your fingers, then its possible the race is off spec. The fact you can see the race shift most likely means you didnt tighten or install the headset together properly.


As I said before, I can slide the race off with little effort, so I'll thinking it is out of spec. I'm just looking to see if others have had this problem; with this particular headset or others. Or if there's anything I should know about installing a dual crown fork. But like I said before, I'm pretty sure the headset is tightened and installed properly.


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## dumper (Feb 15, 2004)

*why not simply call Cane Creek, on the phone...*

and tell them the story. Chances are they will probably send you a new crown race for free(they're cheap).


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## Polk (Jan 19, 2004)

That is definitely too loose. I would recommend not riding the bike like that.

It sounds like that particular crown race is has been machined incorrectly. Just a couple months ago I put the same headset on a 2002 Manitou Mars and it went on with the usual force.


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

upNdown said:


> As I said before, I can slide the race off with little effort, so I'll thinking it is out of spec. I'm just looking to see if others have had this problem; with this particular headset or others. Or if there's anything I should know about installing a dual crown fork. But like I said before, I'm pretty sure the headset is tightened and installed properly.


ok, i thought you meant just for installing it. Cus i can hand install my Pig DH on my Shiver but the thing stays put.


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## Banshee Rider (Jan 19, 2004)

If this is the same little ring that im thinking of, i thought you had to have a tool to pound it on? Whenever i go to my LBS to switch/put on a new fork i have to take the ring off one fork and pound it on to the new fork using this park tool thing, its like a 20in long pipe with different fittings that go on the end and you bash on that little ring a couple times. By the sounds of it pushing it on with your fingers just aint gonna make it stay put and thats why your feeling that play when you put on the fork. thats the only thing i could think of.


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## upNdown (Jan 12, 2004)

Banshee Rider said:


> If this is the same little ring that im thinking of, i thought you had to have a tool to pound it on? Whenever i go to my LBS to switch/put on a new fork i have to take the ring off one fork and pound it on to the new fork using this park tool thing, its like a 20in long pipe with different fittings that go on the end and you bash on that little ring a couple times. By the sounds of it pushing it on with your fingers just aint gonna make it stay put and thats why your feeling that play when you put on the fork. thats the only thing i could think of.


Right, that is my problem. No tool will install that race any tighter than I've done with my fingers. Its pushed all the way down, flush against the crown. Forget about this email crap, I'm calling CC.


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## Innocent Bystander (Dec 19, 2003)

I would call/email CC, no question, as I have installed numerous S2 headsets and never had this problem. I have read before that some mechanics install crown races by using a bit of Loc-tite green (press fit strength) to ensure that this is not a problem.


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

If you are curious UpNdown, I was using a Cane Creek C2 on it, it was plenty "tight". I don't think I've ever owned a fork where it only took hand-pressure to put the race on, it's always been a "press" fit, just my personal experience.


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## butocabra (Jan 12, 2004)

*one exception...*

only exception I can think of is an fsa sealed bearing headset, where the crown race was actually a split ring, and you could put it on with hand pressure. Still, assuming the crown race you're looking at isn't a split ring, it sounds a bit loose to me.


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## LT1 (Jan 12, 2004)

zedro said:


> ok, i thought you meant just for installing it. Cus i can hand install my Pig DH on my Shiver but the thing stays put.


The same thing has happened to me with all my Pig crown races, I can almost always install them by hand or very little pressure (on a wide variety of forks) and I've never had a problem.


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## sub6 (Jan 21, 2004)

In 100% of the headsets I've installed, including FSA sealed-bearing headsets, the split-ring is for the UPPER race. It is NOT the crown race, it only serves to center the steerer tube in the upper race.


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## zedro (Jan 12, 2004)

sub6 said:


> In 100% of the headsets I've installed, including FSA sealed-bearing headsets, the split-ring is for the UPPER race. It is NOT the crown race, it only serves to center the steerer tube in the upper race.


as i recall, some headsets have a split-race, not the split ring your thinking of. Not quite sure where i remember this from tho.....


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## upNdown (Jan 12, 2004)

upNdown said:


> I just installed a Cane Creek S2 headset on an old Super T and was able to press the crown race all the way to the crown with only my thumbs. Seems to me thats too loose. I tried the race on a newer Manitou steerer and it was equally loose on that, so I don't believe its a problem with the Super T steerer. Anyway when I got the fork completely installed, there was play there. When I held the brake and pushed the fork back and forth, you could see the crown race moving. I fired an email off to Cane Creek, but I'd like to know if anybody here has ever had this problem and if anything can be done about it. Is it a problem with the S2, or do I just have a bad race, or what?
> Thanks.


I called Cane Creek and the guy didn't seem to think it was possible for them to manufature a race that's too big; he thought that since it was a used fork that the steerer tube had been worn by the previous race. That wouldn't explain it being loose on my other fork, so there is no explanation. But he said he'd send me out a new race, so I wait and see I guess.


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## butocabra (Jan 12, 2004)

*we're talking about two different parts...*



sub6 said:


> In 100% of the headsets I've installed, including FSA sealed-bearing headsets, the split-ring is for the UPPER race. It is NOT the crown race, it only serves to center the steerer tube in the upper race.


In an fsa orbit II headset both the upper ring that preloads tension on the upper bearings, and the crown race itself are split. I think the orbit is the exception, though, as the pig dh on my other bike had a normal crown race that had to be seated.


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## upNdown (Jan 12, 2004)

*AHA! It was the race...*

I got the free replacement race from Cane Creek and it was much tighter. Took me quite a bit to get it seated on the crown - I didn't have the proper tools, so I just put the old race on top of the new race, put a screw driver on the old race and hammered it home. Worked great though; no damage to the new race and it is pressed in there tight.

So I reinstalled the fork, stem, etc...and the play I was experienceing has disappeared. So thanks Cane Creek for the replacement race. My lesson for the week is "Never trust a crown race that you can push on with your thumbs."


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