# Oh no. Nipple insert ripped out of Mavic 823 rim.



## lelebebbel (Jan 31, 2005)

Mavic 823 damage by lelebebbel, on Flickr

Most likely caused by the insert partially unthreading itself, followed by a harsh landing. The rest of the rim is fine, not even a dent.

Now what? Keep riding it with 31 spokes? Glue the nipple thing back in somehow? (with what?)
Stick something else in there to hold the spoke?

I think fixing the thread is out of the question, and I doubt that there is a helicoil available in this size and left-hand thread.


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

Have you tried cleaning the threads? From the picture it look like there is dried locktite in there.


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## lelebebbel (Jan 31, 2005)

The thread is f'd. I can stick the insert in the hole and spin it at will with my fingers. There is some loctite residue in there, but more importantly, the actual thread has vaporized.


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## nightnerd (Mar 5, 2007)

lelebebbel said:


> The thread is f'd. I can stick the insert in the hole and spin it at will with my fingers. There is some loctite residue in there, but more importantly, the actual thread has vaporized.


Bummer...


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## lelebebbel (Jan 31, 2005)

Indeed!

That rim cost $200, here in the land of overpriced bike components (aka Australia), and it is only 4 months old.


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## DhRoadStar (Mar 23, 2012)

lelebebbel said:


> Indeed!
> 
> That rim cost $200, here in the land of overpriced bike components (aka Australia), and it is only 4 months old.


Maybe just order from CRC, Starbike, Jenson or Price Point. Better prices


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## ustemuf (Oct 12, 2009)

JB weld!


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## ron m. (Aug 1, 2009)

Try to helicoil it, although it may be tough to get a drill and tap it straight (unless you come from the other side). Then you could theoretically make the rim weaker by boring a wider hole. Just a thought.


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## juanbeegas (Oct 1, 2007)

DhRoadStar said:


> Maybe just order from CRC, Starbike, Jenson or Price Point. Better prices


Just order a new rim from CRC, dude... Their prices are a lot cheaper than what they'd charge you in Australia.


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## gretch (Aug 27, 2010)

CRC = no stock on 823s....


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

I would try jb weld too.


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## myarmisonfire (Mar 28, 2005)

JB Weld ain't going to do a dang thing. There will not be enough material to Heli-coil either. Assuming you could find the proper diameter/pitch Heli-coil. When you consider the size of the thread, the threaded inserts are many time stronger than the spoke or nipple. I doubt that it worked itself loose and then tore out. If it worked loose the spoke would no longer have tension on it thus it would be unable to pull on the threaded insert. I think that a more likely cause of the failure was incorrect installation when the wheel was built. Most likely cross threaded or less likely over torqued. Who built the wheel? I would inquire about a warranty claim on the rim.


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## rugbyred (Aug 31, 2006)

Wow,
I consider myself lucky. I just ripped the insert out of my wheel as well, fortunately, the threads on the insert were ruined.
As others have said, look for some online shops to order a new rim. Until you get another rim, just ride with one less spoke and keep an eye o your wheel.

Eric


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I have a rim you can have if you want to pay the shipping. Prolly won't work $ wise but if it does...


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## tuul75 (Nov 13, 2007)

i think its toast.


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## lelebebbel (Jan 31, 2005)

gretch said:


> CRC = no stock on 823s....


That, and they wouldn't let me order it at the time. Their policy seems to have changed, but a few months ago they'd only let you order a complete wheel build to Australia, not a single rim.


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## lelebebbel (Jan 31, 2005)

myarmisonfire said:


> JB Weld ain't going to do a dang thing. There will not be enough material to Heli-coil either. Assuming you could find the proper diameter/pitch Heli-coil. When you consider the size of the thread, the threaded inserts are many time stronger than the spoke or nipple. I doubt that it worked itself loose and then tore out. If it worked loose the spoke would no longer have tension on it thus it would be unable to pull on the threaded insert. I think that a more likely cause of the failure was incorrect installation when the wheel was built. Most likely cross threaded or less likely over torqued. Who built the wheel? I would inquire about a warranty claim on the rim.


I built the wheel. It wasn't cross threaded or overtorqued, but the full story is that it worked itself loose a while ago, which I noticed too late (it had only come out about 1 turn). Unfortunately, riding with the loose insert apparently makes the thing wiggle back and forth in the hole, thus damaging the threads. I replaced the insert, refitted it with more loctite and tightened the spoke back up, but the damage had apparently been done.

In other words, no warranty claim.

Looks like I'm out of luck here. I'll continue riding this with 31 spokes until it blows up, then replace it with something else.

If I had to build the wheel again, I'd use red loctite on the FORE inserts, but I don't think I'll get another 823.


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## Brian HCM#1 (Jan 18, 2004)

duct tape!


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## Calhoun (Nov 11, 2008)

I'm getting tired of replacing my 823s too. I have already blown up two on my Banshee. Not sure if its the new design, but those wheels each lasted about half a season. I have another set that are the older style and they are going on 3.5 years. Had them trued once and the shop was really just humoring me. They said it wasn't needed.


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

yeah I had one with one of the nipple things missing, took 2-3mo to get a new one, wheel seemed to handle ok with just the 31 spokes (was back wheel too), then the hub took a $hit not long after I put the nipple in.

Long story short, ride it till it die (ie shows signs of weakening, ie check periodically  )


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## Tim F. (May 22, 2006)

Weld it.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

ron m. said:


> Try to helicoil it, although it may be tough to get a drill and tap it straight (unless you come from the other side). Then you could theoretically make the rim weaker by boring a wider hole. Just a thought.


tubeless 823 rims you can't do come from other side silly...you will let the air out if you do


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

I bet it could be helicoiled, or welded. For the price of the taps, helicoils, and/or welding, you are better off buying a new rim though.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

lelebebbel said:


> I built the wheel. It wasn't cross threaded or overtorqued, but the full story is that it worked itself loose a while ago, which I noticed too late (it had only come out about 1 turn). Unfortunately, riding with the loose insert apparently makes the thing wiggle back and forth in the hole, thus damaging the threads. I replaced the insert, refitted it with more loctite and tightened the spoke back up, but the damage had apparently been done.
> 
> In other words, no warranty claim.
> 
> ...


*3 months*...I am still sending it in for warranty


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Calhoun said:


> I'm getting tired of replacing my 823s too. I have already blown up two on my Banshee. Not sure if its the new design, but those wheels each lasted about half a season. I have another set that are the older style and they are going on 3.5 years. Had them trued once and the shop was really just humoring me. They said it wasn't needed.


I have had a set of 823's for 7 years up front and 3 years rear (bent too much) with no problems....very interesting if the new ones are having problems


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I've moved to the Flow rims. I'd recommend trying them out.


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## ARider (Feb 28, 2005)

The inserts are reverse threaded (left hand), ain't no helicoil for that folks.

I say go the JB weld way, or that other putty like stuff you knead together and hardens. I have seen JB weld do amazing things.

You can't weld it, you can't tap it, glue it!


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## lelebebbel (Jan 31, 2005)

gticlay said:


> I've moved to the Flow rims. I'd recommend trying them out.


I did. I actually got this 823 to replace a Flow, which I smashed. The flow is a nice light rim, but not suitable for rocky DH race tracks, it dents far too easily. I actually still have one on the front wheel, looks pretty bad but is holding together so far. Compared to a 823, it feels like a toy though.

The 823 is very strong, it is almost incredible that this thing hasn't got a single dent yet while every other rim here seems to look like a golf ball after a few months. It is higher maintenance though, the threaded Inserts are just another thing that can go wrong.



Tim F. said:


> Weld it.


If you know someone who can weld a steel thread insert to a aluminium rim, I'd be all over that.....

I think I will at least try to glue it together. If that doesn't work, I might have to drill a hole from the inside, and stick the FORE insert in upside down.

Anybody have any suggestions for glue? I'm thinking something like Loctite 620 or 121078


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## rdhfreethought (Aug 12, 2006)

Tim F. said:


> Weld it.


Yeah, Or, I would just braze it. Easy to do. Surprizingly strong. And hopefully will not heat stress the rim too much. Ask around, somebody has a welder, or you can pick up the goods to braze it for like 30 bucks.


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## lelebebbel (Jan 31, 2005)

Unfortunately this is a *steel* insert in a heat treatet, anodized *aluminium* rim. One does not simply weld that. Even soldering it would be pretty hard, most likely destroying the heat treatment of the rim in the process. 
Also, if I'd weld the insert in, I'd have to do it with the spoke nipple already inside, increasing the risk of a failure.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

sounds like the "solutions" are worse than the problem. i say ride with 31 spokes while you save up for a new wheel.


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## clockwork (Dec 9, 2006)

yup ride it and don't worry about it


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## 06CVPI (Oct 22, 2010)

You can use Loctite Thread repair. It should hold up fine as I used this in the past to repair stripped holes from transmission and aluminum oil pans in the past.

Loctite ® Form-A- Thread ® Stripped Thread Repair - Henkel


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