# Where to live for the best bikepacking in the US?



## vascodagama (Dec 31, 2019)

Hi there! I'm a European with a green card looking to move anywhere in the US. I need help finding the best areas where I can live out my interests, which are bikepacking, hiking, wild camping, rural exploration, and (legal) off-road motorbiking. What I'm looking for:


Forests / rural areas with ample, accessible trails, fire roads, street legal dirt roads
As few regulations as possible; for example I want to be able to wild camp, and bike any trail I see
Not too crowded; ideally there are areas I can bike for hours without seeing anyone else
Four seasons, snow during winter
Beautiful nature (mountains, lakes) is a plus, but not a must
Looking for a town ideally < 30 minutes drive from most of the above, and with a lot of options within 1-2 hours

Is there any place in the US that could fit? I know I'm asking for a lot! I had thought of Boulder, Colorado, but on more research, it seems like a lot of the land there is untouchable, and that exploring can be limited to established trails.

So I've started looking at areas near National Forests. Am I right in thinking that I can generally wild camp and roam freely around those?

Some places I'm looking at now are: Western Colorado. Around Lake Tahoe (maybe too crowded?). Or somewhere north-west (Idaho / Montana / Oregon / Washington).

Would appreciate some ideas, for both areas in general, and specific towns!


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## Megashnauzer (Nov 2, 2005)

I just got back from southeast Tennessee, near Ocoee. Lots of national forest land with a bunch of gravel roads. Lots of single track also.


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

The state of Oregon is bicycle friendly.
The easter slopes of the Cascade range perhaps? Bend Oregon?

I almost typed, in a motor home.

Check the average rain chart before you go.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

Arizona meets most of your wishes. Tons of public trails, off road motor vehicle access everywhere, snow in the high elevation during the winter, ride/hike/camp year round. Arizona has more BLM (public use land) than most other states. If you relocated to Phoenix, you would be a within driving distance of Moab, Denver, Reno/Tahoe, and the San Francisco Bay Area (although I personally wouldn’t be heading back there anytime soon).

Also, I grew up not far from Tahoe. I spent most of my childhood in and around the lands around Tahoe. There are areas that you can get away from others, but the area as a whole is packed for what it sounds like what you want.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

NorCal_In_AZ said:


> Arizona meets most of your wishes. Tons of public trails, off road motor vehicle access everywhere, snow in the high elevation during the winter, ride/hike/camp year round. Arizona has more BLM (public use land) than most other states. If you relocated to Phoenix, you would be a within driving distance of Moab, Denver, Reno/Tahoe, and the San Francisco Bay Area (although I personally wouldn't be heading back there anytime soon).
> 
> Also, I grew up not far from Tahoe. I spent most of my childhood in and around the lands around Tahoe. There are areas that you can get away from others, but the area as a whole is packed for what it sounds like what you want.


Utah also fits that bill, and New Mexico probably does too.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

richde said:


> Utah also fits that bill, and New Mexico probably does too.


Yup Utah would be a great fit.

NM, is like two states almost. Northern NM has lots of Indian Rez land and some of it isn't very friendly. Southern NM, is full of awesome salt of the earth people. YMMV


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

The Four Corners Region is what you are looking for... SW CO, SE UT, NE AZ, NW NM. Best place on earth.


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## Lactic (Apr 18, 2004)

Utah is full per the Fire Marshall...

Strict “1 in- 1 out” policy is in effect...

(It’s awesome BTW!)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

A few comments from places I've lived out west for what it's worth - 

I loved Idaho...tons of open land, not a lot of people, endless dirt roads and trails for days. A bit isolated though for school/job front, hence why I don't live there. But sounds like that doesn't matter too much for you? Depending on where you live, you can also be close to Montana which is also another awesome state, and the advantage of Idaho is you can avoid the higher living costs of places like Missoula/Bozeman. Check out places in northern Idaho, and I'd also consider Boise for good local access relative to being in a city. Avoid the Sun Valley area for higher living costs and tourists. Spokane could be a decent place too for bike access (just across from CDA in Washington).

Oregon is pretty rad too. Avoid Portland if you want good out the door mountain bike access. Otherwise, if you somewhat crave amenities found in cities, Portland is for sure a fun place. Corvallis has probably the best out the door mountain bike options for west of the Cascades. That town had an odd vibe though, wasn't a huge fan of living there in terms of culture...but never have I biked so much! Also it's a bit far from the Cascade trails. Eugene is slightly bigger with similar access. Bend would probably be a good choice for access to longer bikepacking options, but feels like a resort town for sure, and I'm not a huge fan of those places. Beware, it definitely gets gray and overcast with rain for a long time during the winter if you're in the Willamette Valley. Not terrible, but after living there I can say probably not for me, long-term. Coming from the Northeast, I think I prefer true 4 seasons, compared to the kinda rain-on/rain-off vibe in Oregon.

Currently, I'm in southern AZ. I haven't been here too long but I must say I really like the sunshine and warmer winters. Seems like year-round biking options (it does get inferno hot during summers). Tons of local trails. I haven't had time for any trips yet but it also seems like a bikepackers paradise. Amazing terrain in all directions. Hard to compare to other places that I've lived as it's so different here, but in terms of the balance of work opportunities/culture/food/reasonable living costs and bike options I think I prefer it here so far to other places I've lived. I haven't spend much time in New Mexico other than driving through a few times, but I'd assume there's a lot of good options for places to live with tons of biking as well, and the mountain areas would give you more of the 4 seasons you want.

Other places I've been to short term or traveled through, and would avoid for living purposes (i.e. high costs, heavy tourist season, annoying trustfund people, too strong mountain town bro vibe) include: Tahoe area, Tetons/Yellowstone, Colorado in general, Bozeman, Moab. That's by far not encompassing though. 

Good luck with your search. There are a ton of awesome places out west, that's why many people like me move from the east coast!


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## chrisx (Mar 4, 2009)

Motor home and travel the west.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

You want to live 30 minutes from town and not see any people? Hmmm. Lost me there. Look at New England. VT, NH and Maine. Lots of options. Class 4 rds and class 6 roads in VT and NH. Roads being a loose term. Unmaintained dirt stuff, sometimes with large trees and boulders in the middle of it. Snow mobile trails, dirt roads, logging roads, rail trails, lots of them unpaved, so many options.


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## Thor29 (May 12, 2005)

vascodagama said:


> So I've started looking at areas near National Forests. Am I right in thinking that I can generally wild camp and roam freely around those?


Not exactly. On National Forest or BLM land you can wild camp as long as there are no signs saying otherwise. In popular areas or places that are easy to access, they keep putting up "No Camping" signs. I used to find tons of free camping spots in Utah, even along the river north of Moab (now all restricted paid campsites), but now you really have to get off the beaten path to find a place to set up a tent without having to pay a fee. I've camped right outside of major National Parks for free while on motorcycle trips, but that was 20 years ago and I bet those places are now restricted. The noose keeps tightening in America...

So what that means is you need to be in a place that is lightly populated and not as popular with tourists. Somewhere inland from the Pacific and west of the Rockies. Anybody who mentions anywhere east of the Rockies, is nuts. Way too overpopulated and the amount of National Forest and BLM land is tiny compared to the West.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

If I was going to settle somewhere and establish a base of operations, a home or whatever, I'd want to have the option of living there any time of the year, so not too hot and not too cold.

Avoid the east coast, they simply don't have the public lands needed for unrestricted riding. I lived in TN and VA for twenty years, so glad I got outta there!

Eastern Oregon and Eastern WA are a good choice, lots of BLM and NFS, but the snow and cold would be a limiting factor, same goes for MT, ID, and northern UT.

Stick to the banana belt, western states like Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico.

I live in Carson City Nevada, just south or Reno. I can ride out my backdoor to the north, south, or east and go for hundreds of miles without issues. Land is cheap if you're willing to live outside of towns/cities. 

You can live thirty minutes from Carson City for next to nothing and you will be alone, just you and the wild horses.

BLM is the least restrictive public lands and we got a lot of it


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2019)

Sounds like a fun adventure! Best luck to you.

I've been all over the west. You'll have best luck far from any cities. Boulder for instance is a really bad choice. And note than some places can get overrun during tourist season even if the local population is nil. And I'm going to prioritize natural beauty and decent year round climate even if you don't  Some places to look:

Most of NM. West side is probably the best. 
Northern AZ... maybe... nah, Phoenix has overrun the state. The middle-east side would be best. 
Southern UT is awesome. The Grand Canyon is nearby also. Could be my favorite area.
Middle-eastern NV. 
Middle-west CO.

The following have cold and pretty dreary winters:
WY mountains except for Jackson and Yellowstone areas. 
ID and MT away from cities. 
East side of the Cascades (OR, WA) away from cities.

Really you can look at a map and pretty much figure it out. If it's BLM or NF land and there aren't any big cities near, it's probably free and open and not overrun.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Look at all that lovely yellow, pretty much all of Nevada, yup.

I think folks don't appreciate Nevada, they think only of gambling and prostitution, but these are very minor things unless you hang out in Las Vegas; prostitution is very low key and not visible.

Eastern NV is a very lightly populated, dirt roads are everywhere, but it's very far from any major city, take for instance Elko: Midway between Reno and Salt Lake City, four hours from either, it's a small town that barely has a Walmart.

Western NV has amzing riding both in the Sierras and out in the valleys. You do get crowds in the Lake Tahoe basin, but you can avoid them by getting on a trail and riding up; tourists don't have the fitness to get anywhere worth going, so they're easy to avoid.

Northern NV is like Eastern NV, but a little wetter as you get into Southern Oregon,; note all that lovely yellow BLM land in Southern Oregon.

The best part about Nevada is you can choose your weather by driving:
Too much sun, head West into the mountains
Too much snow, head South or East
Too cold, head South
Too dry, head West or North
Need some seashine, head to the coast
Need some technical riding, head any direction: Moab, St George, Las Vegas, Tahoe, etc...
Need a little hispanic exposure, head waaay South

Of course I live here so I like it ... it was a chosen destination, but if I was to choose a new place to live, I'd look at Cedar City Utah or St George Utah, Cedar City is tiny, St George is a small city town, getting nicer by the day, but there's a pretty high LDS population, so you may not have a large friend group unless you subscribe, but at least they'll leave you alone after a while 

Two of my kids are Utah, one in SLC and one in St George, so we get over there quite a bit. The St George kid lives in a van and moves around to various public lands and camps for free. The riding around St George is some of the best you'll find in the states if you like desert riding.


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## ImaFred (May 16, 2009)

Las Vegas is a great base....everythings close(AZT, CAli, UT, etc), and the local area has tons of exploring...literally 30-40 min from a major international airport and I can have you where you wont see anyone else all day...easy!


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2019)

ImaFred said:


> Las Vegas is a great base....everythings close(AZT, CAli, UT, etc), and the local area has tons of exploring...literally 30-40 min from a major international airport and I can have you where you wont see anyone else all day...easy!


When I lived in Los Angeles I was surprised and pleased that I could fairly easily find places in the San Gabriel Mountains where I wouldn't see anyone all day. But I still wouldn't suggest that as an ideal location for exploring in the boonies. Any time you are within a couple hours of a big city (or big resort destination) you are in "civilization". No way around that.


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2019)

Nurse Ben said:


> The St George kid lives in a van and moves around to various public lands and camps for free.


Many years ago I had a 13 year stint of living like that. I highly recommend it! Retire when young; you can make money later, then retire again!


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## toadmeister (Sep 24, 2017)

rruff said:


> Many years ago I had a 13 year stint of living like that. I highly recommend it! Retire when young; you can make money later, then retire again!


I like it.

Honestly I've earned and saved well and will retire in my mid-50s. Got kids to finish raising and kick out first. I figure mid 50s I won't be too old to get out and enjoy adventures. Will be very mobile, maybe a camper van, and visit and bike everywhere.

Subscribed to this thread as it matches my interest as well

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## cmon4day (May 16, 2007)

I would say the best place to live after a 10 day MTB tour in Oregon I did this summer is Bend, OR. There are endless miles of interconnecting singletrack. The riding up there is phenomenal.


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2019)

Bend is cool but kinda overpopulated now. It was perfect when I first went there 30 years ago. Population was <20k then.


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2019)

toadmeister said:


> Honestly I've earned and saved well and will retire in my mid-50s.


I'm 59 and getting ready to do it again. I wonder what it's like now with all the "overlanding". Before I didn't have any trouble finding out of the way places with no people, but it could be harder now.

BLM land was great. I'd usually find a good spot and stay there for months (with weekly trips to town). It's technically illegal, but I never once saw a BLM ranger in 13 years, and I usually wouldn't see people either, so no one to complain.


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## Dream Plus (Feb 12, 2004)

rruff said:


> Bend is cool but kinda overpopulated now. It was perfect when I first went there 30 years ago. Population was <20k then.


And becoming more expensive.


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## MudderNutter (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm jealous. I wan't to be vascodagama


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Thor29 said:


> Not exactly. On National Forest or BLM land you can wild camp as long as there are no signs saying otherwise. In popular areas or places that are easy to access, they keep putting up "No Camping" signs. I used to find tons of free camping spots in Utah, even along the river north of Moab (now all restricted paid campsites), but now you really have to get off the beaten path to find a place to set up a tent without having to pay a fee. I've camped right outside of major National Parks for free while on motorcycle trips, but that was 20 years ago and I bet those places are now restricted. The noose keeps tightening in America...
> 
> So what that means is you need to be in a place that is lightly populated and not as popular with tourists. Somewhere inland from the Pacific and west of the Rockies. Anybody who mentions anywhere east of the Rockies, is nuts. Way too overpopulated and the amount of National Forest and BLM land is tiny compared to the West.


 Have you been to the northern sections of New England? Lots of forests around, just not BLM. Lots of places to camp. Wild camping too. Endless dirt, gravel and logging roads. While yes we have people, plenty of rural and small town areas. What's summer temps in AZ, Utah and Nevada? It's a dry heat? Water, forests and more tolerable summer temps would be something to consider.


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2019)

leeboh said:


> What's summer temps in AZ, Utah and Nevada? It's a dry heat? Water, forests and more tolerable summer temps would be something to consider.


In the mountains it's plenty cool, pine forests, no bugs (usually). When I lived in my truck I'd spend winters in the S CA or AZ deserts or Baja, and summers I'd move north. In the middle of summer I like to camp 8-10k ft elevation. The mountains of UT, NV, CA, OR, WA, ID are glorious in summer. NM, CO, and AZ get more rain in summer... if you are mobile it's nicer farther west.

For year round climate where I live now is pretty hard to beat. 7k ft in S NM, average high in Jan is 50F and 82F in July.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

^^^^ No bugs, nice.


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2019)

leeboh said:


> ^^^^ No bugs, nice.


One thing I love about the west. The forests that are dry in the summer will usually not have mosquitoes. Even though summer is the "rainy season" where I live now, there are very few mosquitoes.

Compared to east, the forests are very open with little underbrush. No poison ivy, no chiggers, no ticks. Quite nice.

If the OP is still following, I'd recommend looking for seasonal work at a park or resort. You can work for the season (summer or winter depending) and easily save enough to travel the rest of the year. I made enough in a summer to last 5 years, but I was living cheap (and cleared ~$35/hr in today's money as a waiter).


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

I’ll take the 3-4 months of dry heat in AZ’s summer over the 3-4 months of snow of the Midwest and North. At least when it’s hot here you can still get out early in the morning or late at night and be comfortable.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

rruff said:


> Bend is cool but kinda overpopulated now. It was perfect when I first went there 30 years ago. Population was <20k then.


Yeah, it was small thirty years ago, but the riding was mostly dirt roads and there was nowhere good to eat. I get up there at least once a year, usually camp just outside of town.

Lots of riding, super interconnected, fun town, but it does get crowded.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

rruff said:


> In the mountains it's plenty cool, pine forests, no bugs (usually). When I lived in my truck I'd spend winters in the S CA or AZ deserts or Baja, and summers I'd move north. In the middle of summer I like to camp 8-10k ft elevation. The mountains of UT, NV, CA, OR, WA, ID are glorious in summer. NM, CO, and AZ get more rain in summer... if you are mobile it's nicer farther west.
> 
> For year round climate where I live now is pretty hard to beat. 7k ft in S NM, average high in Jan is 50F and 82F in July.


Where do you live?

I'm a little constrained by where my kids settle, got three more years until our next move will happen.

I've been eyeballing Prescott, but I doubt I'll ever get to live there .... no ski resorts for my snowboard obsessed son in law.

I suspect we'll be in the PNW, Utah, or Colorado.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

rruff said:


> In the mountains it's plenty cool, pine forests, no bugs (usually). When I lived in my truck I'd spend winters in the S CA or AZ deserts or Baja, and summers I'd move north. In the middle of summer I like to camp 8-10k ft elevation. The mountains of UT, NV, CA, OR, WA, ID are glorious in summer. NM, CO, and AZ get more rain in summer... if you are mobile it's nicer farther west.
> 
> For year round climate where I live now is pretty hard to beat. 7k ft in S NM, average high in Jan is 50F and 82F in July.


Flatlanders don't realize the effects of altitude on climate. 7k here too, nw NM, but very similar. Mild four season climate at altitude, best of everything but not too intense. The bright sunny days help make the shorter winter daylight hours more tolerable. Our cool summer nights rarely exceed the mid 60's, temp drops quickly when the sun sets.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

vascodagama said:


> [*]As few regulations as possible; for example I want to be able to wild camp, and bike any trail I see


It's worth noting that there's really nowhere in the US that you can go and bike any trail you see. Regulations in the US are a patchwork due to the variety of land managers and the variability in how bike access is permitted. There are some few managers that permit biking on all trails unless posted as closed, but that tends to be pretty rare. Most places are closed unless signed as open for bikes. It sounds like a subtle distinction until you realize that what that looks like on the ground can vary heavily depending on how much the land manager (or land managers of the past) likes mountain bikes. In some places, it can mean hundreds or thousands of miles of trails exist, but only a token few are accessible to bikes. In other places, it can seem like bikes can ride on most of what's available. But you still have to pay attention for the stuff that's not open.

I know some places where even gated gravel roads (forest maintenance roads, usually) are prohibited to bikes unless expressly marked as open. That seems ludicrous to me, but that's how the manager has chosen to manage things.

Nowhere in the US is it generally permissible to explore by bike off-trail. This definitely isn't Scandinavia. One major exception being over-snow travel in the wintertime on some federal lands like National Forests (but definitely not National Parks) with a fatbike. On foot, many areas permit off-trail exploration, but there are also many which prohibit that (generally speaking, the busier areas and the more sensitive types of ecosystems).

The wild camping part was covered well. That's possible, with caveats.

And yeah, you might want to modify the town proximity requirements. <30 min from town is CLOSE and towns in the US aren't as compact as they are in Europe. If you want totally quiet, you're going to need to go farther from town. And if you absolutely must be that close to town, you're going to need to accept that you'll see some people. The US is big and people are spread widely about it. In many places where there are lots of towns within 1-2hrs of driving, you're generally never going to be that far from other people. In the places where there are large unpopulated areas, you might have ONE town within 1-2hrs of driving.

It's also worth asking a bit more about what you mean by "move" to the US. For how long do you plan to be here? You mention an ability to wild camp. That's possible, but it's worth pointing out that I don't know ANYWHERE that permits people to wild camp in the same place for more than 14 days. This means that wild camping in the US isn't really a realistic option for setting up a semipermanent home base. If you plan to be more nomadic, then it's certainly possible. There are plenty of people doing this out of vans or RVs. But if what you're looking for is more of a home base type of arrangement, then you're going to need to figure out some sort of rental (a cabin, a camper rental, a space to pitch a tent, or whatever), which most likely means again being closer to people and then venturing out away from them when you're looking for that. And depending on your budgeting for this trip, also might mean odd jobs on a part time basis to pay for that.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Harold said:


> It's worth noting that there's really nowhere in the US that you can go and bike any trail you see.


Mmmm, kinda, but not really, see the NSF and BLM really don't care and more importantly they don't have the resources to care or impede access.

I'm not saying folks should ride wherever they want, but no one is going to stop you.

There are a fair number of people "wild camping" on BLM all over the West, more over time due to the rapidly rising costs of living; two of my kids for example 

That's why people live out here.

Harold, it may be time for you to move ...


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2019)

Nurse Ben said:


> Where do you live?


Ruidoso, NM. Much smaller than Prescott, but it has enough going on to entertain me. There's a ski resort right near town, but the snow is iffy. I've been here 14 years and I think it's only been really good 3 of those years. Flagstaff isn't an option for you?


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2019)

Nurse Ben said:


> Mmmm, kinda, but not really, see the NSF and BLM really don't care and more importantly they don't have the resources to care or impede access.


I concur. If you are out in the boonies and not on wilderness land, then 99.99% of the time you have zero to worry about. In 13 years I never once saw a BLM ranger. I violated that "14 day limit" rule all the time. I even did it on BLM wilderness land (accidentally) for 3 months and no one came to visit. I suspect the rule exists to keep people from setting up semi permanent bases in popular areas. But I preferred to remain hidden and never see another person, so I didn't stay long in popular or populated spots anyway.

Harold... where are you seeing all these restrictions?


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Perfectly legal to bike off trail and camp on my mountain, which is mostly FS, with scattered private holdings. I asked the head ranger and he said it was fine. Same for the rest of the Four Corners Region mostly. Areas with heavy use may be more restricted, but why would you go there to get away?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Thor29 said:


> The noose keeps tightening in America...


If by that you mean that we have a largely unregulated recreation epidemic populated primarily by people whom don't give much of a rip about the the long term health of the lands they're abusing, then, um, sure.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I reckon policing the backcountry by drone is near. 

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

rruff said:


> Harold... where are you seeing all these restrictions?


Keep in mind that I have actually worked for the Forest Service in a very, very quiet part of the country in the past. I live in a more populated place now, but neither place is all that different when it comes to the USFS. I'm speaking of the actual rules, not necessarily the ability (or lack thereof) for land managers to deal with them, and the necessity that those land managers must prioritize the work they do because of staffing levels.

Even when land managers don't "typically" put effort into enforcement of a rule because of those priorities, doesn't mean that they won't. I've seen plenty of occasions where just such a thing was done. Someone had violated a rule so blatantly that staff had to go and deal with it, whereas they might have looked the other way if the person was more low key about it.

Further, trying to plan a long-term international trip around that kind of thing is, IMO, a supremely bad idea. Much better to plan 100% around the letter of the laws/rules/regulations, which probably will give you a little leeway later on from time to time, than to plan around the leeway and have your trip go to **** when you don't get it somewhere. Frankly, the US isn't the friendliest of places for internationals at the moment (from a government standpoint) so I'd be striving to avoid pushing those kinds of issues, and work very hard to avoid the notice of law enforcement in rural places.


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2019)

Harold said:


> Someone had violated a rule so blatantly that staff had to go and deal with it, whereas they might have looked the other way if the person was more low key about it.


It is easy to see it from their perspective, and hopefully the perspective of anyone using the public lands. If you aren't damaging the land or disturbing anyone or flaunting authority, they aren't likely to enforce the letter of the the law.

I was mostly curious about this part you posted earlier:
"Most places are closed unless signed as open for bikes....In some places, it can mean hundreds or thousands of miles of trails exist, but only a token few are accessible to bikes. In other places, it can seem like bikes can ride on most of what's available. But you still have to pay attention for the stuff that's not open.

I know some places where even gated gravel roads (forest maintenance roads, usually) are prohibited to bikes unless expressly marked as open."

I've noticed restrictions mostly in National Parks and Wilderness, and heavily used areas. I suppose it might be different in the east. Is there an easy place to get up to date info on access?

I've also noticed a disturbing trend of new land owners fencing off public access roads and claiming them as private. Sadly the Forest Service will usually do nothing about it.


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## 839138 (Jun 7, 2018)

leeboh said:


> Have you been to the northern sections of New England? Lots of forests around, just not BLM. Lots of places to camp. Wild camping too. Endless dirt, gravel and logging roads. While yes we have people, plenty of rural and small town areas. What's summer temps in AZ, Utah and Nevada? It's a dry heat? Water, forests and more tolerable summer temps would be something to consider.


Northeast = Lyme disease.

Having moved from upstate NY to now Arizona, yes summers are hot, but higher elevations are cooler, and the 'hot summers' here are still way shorter than the 6months of miserable gray, icy, Arctic blast winters, then tack on +/- 1 month on either end of 40 degree rain and wind (fall) and road salt dust (spring).

With that said, endless old roads (both paved and unpaved). I wish I had gotten into the 'gravel' thing a little earlier on when I was still in NY. My hometown had mixed roads for days, no traffic, and, well, also no shoulders...


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

loren90 said:


> Northeast = Lyme disease.
> 
> Having moved from upstate NY to now Arizona, yes summers are hot, but higher elevations are cooler, and the 'hot summers' here are still way shorter than the 6months of miserable gray, icy, Arctic blast winters, then tack on +/- 1 month on either end of 40 degree rain and wind (fall) and road salt dust (spring).
> 
> With that said, endless old roads (both paved and unpaved). I wish I had gotten into the 'gravel' thing a little earlier on when I was still in NY. My hometown had mixed roads for days, no traffic, and, well, also no shoulders...


 Mentioned New England, not NY. Especially upstate weather wise. Pick your poison. Take some minimal precautions for lyme, that's all. I think the OP has left the building.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

mikesee said:


> If by that you mean that we have a largely unregulated recreation epidemic populated primarily by people whom don't give much of a rip about the the long term health of the lands they're abusing, then, um, sure.


I think this is the case around populations centers, but out further into the boonies the abuse is mostly the same as it's been historically, like abandoned industry from mining and ranching.

Someone dumped a household load of furniture on a Powerline cut above our house, not sure if I should go get it before it's broken up and thrown over into the ravine.

People don't care, limiting access is about the only way to protect natural areas.


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## vascodagama (Dec 31, 2019)

Thanks for all the responses!! Didn't expect this amount of feedback, I've been reading every post in detail.

To answer some questions, the plan is to find a town to live long term. I am fortunate enough to be able to do some remote work, so all I need is an internet connection. I would be riding and exploring during weekends / long weekends mainly. Wild camping would be for individual nights; as the sun sets I want to be able to pitch a tent wherever I happen to be, ideally far away from any civilization.

From what I'm reading here, there are a ton of options... exciting!

I will start my search in two weeks already. Flying into Denver, then I'll head south-west. I'll have a car and a bike, and plan to stay one week in each place to get a feel for it, then drive on. I'll explore the four corners region, then north to Wyoming, Idaho, Oregon, and finally Nevada. I've set aside 3 months for the search, and a lofty budget (I've got $3200).

Btw, I'm curious that only one poster mentioned Idaho. From maps and photos it looks like an awesome place. Anyone else has anything to say about Idaho?


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2019)

vascodagama said:


> Btw, I'm curious that only one poster mentioned Idaho. From maps and photos it looks like an awesome place. Anyone else has anything to say about Idaho?


The main thing I dislike there is the winter climate. Cloudy, cold, not much daylight due to latitude. I don't like the winter in any of the northern states though. Summers are nice. It's very republican (Trump!) except for Boise; but that doesn't really bother me.

If you are touring in the north this time of year, it's likely to be cold and you should be prepared for severe weather (<0F, blizzards, etc).

Where do you live in Europe?


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## ImaFred (May 16, 2009)

the northwest(wyoming, oregon, idaho) will be covered in snow if your going to be here for feb/march. Southwest will be perfect at that time. btw Idaho is awesome.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

vascodagama said:


> Thanks for all the responses!! Didn't expect this amount of feedback, I've been reading every post in detail.
> 
> To answer some questions, the plan is to find a town to live long term. I am fortunate enough to be able to do some remote work, so all I need is an internet connection. I would be riding and exploring during weekends / long weekends mainly. Wild camping would be for individual nights; as the sun sets I want to be able to pitch a tent wherever I happen to be, ideally far away from any civilization.
> 
> ...


Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Northern Utah, Eastern WA, Eastern OR, these are all great places, but only seasonally so for biking because they get cold, dark, and snowy for months every winter.

Having moved to NV from Eastern WA for this ^ reason, I'd say these areas would only be a good choice if you are looking for an "Alaska lite" experience, otherwise stay south and enjoy year round riding.

The Four Corners is a good central place, though it can get wintery even that far south.

If you're going to be coming here in February, that'll be a perfect time to get the lay of the land, do some riding, and see what dark, cold, and snowy really means.

If you get out to Northern NV, send me a PM and maybe we can get together and ride ... depending on snow


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2019)

Nurse Ben said:


> The Four Corners is a good central place, though it can get wintery even that far south.


If you aren't in the low-lying desert regions it will likely be cold that far north. Farmington's average high in Jan is only 42, compared to Bisbee in S AZ at 57. And Bisbee's at 6k ft; it's another 10+ degrees warmer in the low desert.

This is a good page for checking western states climate data: https://wrcc.dri.edu/Climate/west_coop_summaries.php


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

Idaho sucks. Full of ticks, Californians, lots of darkness, rattlesnakes, crazy steep mountains, extreme hot and cold temps, minimal singletrack, and lots and lots of OHVs! Did I mention the ********?? Colorado is so much better! Tell all of your friends how shitty it is! I'd definitely consider Colorado.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Some of the best trails in ID are gone to wilderness. I understand MT is about to claim some more too.

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

WHALENARD said:


> Some of the best trails in ID are gone to wilderness.


And for that I am grateful.


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## Thor29 (May 12, 2005)

mikesee said:


> If by that you mean that we have a largely unregulated recreation epidemic populated primarily by people whom don't give much of a rip about the the long term health of the lands they're abusing, then, um, sure.


I'm just talking about being able to set up a tent and sleep without having to pay a fee. I didn't say anything about a "recreation epidemic", which I guess means irresponsible ORV or 4x4 use. I suppose if the population keeps going up, we'll just have to get used to being subject to more and more restrictions, rules, and edicts. Pretty sad. I know you live in Western Colorado. You've probably visited California - that's your future if the population keeps on rising. Fewer trails, expensive limited camping options, RADAR GUNS ON BIKE TRAILS!!!! (Yes, it's true in the Bay Area in some places).


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

mikesee said:


> And for that I am grateful.


I don't know on that one. 
Seemed to me the Boulder White Cloud saw very few bikes. If it permanently put an end to the threat of mining (which is never a guarantee regardless of it's designation) but somehow grandfathered in bikes, that would have been an ideal outcome imo.

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Thor29 said:


> I'm just talking about being able to set up a tent and sleep without having to pay a fee. I didn't say anything about a "recreation epidemic", which I guess means irresponsible ORV or 4x4 use. I suppose if the population keeps going up, we'll just have to get used to being subject to more and more restrictions, rules, and edicts. Pretty sad. I know you live in Western Colorado. You've probably visited California - that's your future if the population keeps on rising. Fewer trails, expensive limited camping options, RADAR GUNS ON BIKE TRAILS!!!! (Yes, it's true in the Bay Area in some places).


The epidemic I'm referring to has nothing to do with motorized vehicles, although it exists there, too.

Yes, I live in W. CO -- a place that is being inundated by people from elsewhere whom don't seem to care how they leave the place they came to see and ride.

If we as a user group can't police ourselves, we deserve to have bureaucracy (in the form of rules, regs, fees, and yes radar guns) rained down on us.

IMO it's overdue.


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

mikesee said:


> The epidemic I'm referring to has nothing to do with motorized vehicles, although it exists there, too.
> 
> Yes, I live in W. CO -- a place that is being inundated by people from elsewhere whom don't seem to care how they leave the place they came to see and ride.
> 
> ...


I so agree with you. I have been behind so that we're no better than animals. Maybe even worse. People can be so nasty.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

rruff said:


> If you aren't in the low-lying desert regions it will likely be cold that far north. Farmington's average high in Jan is only 42, compared to Bisbee in S AZ at 57. And Bisbee's at 6k ft; it's another 10+ degrees warmer in the low desert.
> 
> This is a good page for checking western states climate data: https://wrcc.dri.edu/Climate/west_coop_summaries.php


Thing in the 4 corners is that the sun shines brightly almost every day, so it's warm and pleasant even in the 40's. Nights in the teens keep the mud at bay, preserve the snow in the northern exposures for xc sking. Summer is typically cool and breezy in the shade, 60's at night.


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

mikesee said:


> The epidemic I'm referring to has nothing to do with motorized vehicles, although it exists there, too.
> 
> Yes, I live in W. CO -- a place that is being inundated by people from elsewhere .


I think both of you guys' experience it biased by where you live or visit (Moab/Fuita, etc.). Having visited that area since the mid-1990s, I know what you're talking about.

But, once you get away from the "mecas" you can still camp for free and away from crowds in most public lands in the western states, particularly in MT/WY/ID. I['m sure that will change as more people move here but things aren't bad yet.


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## samwe (Jul 27, 2015)

Megashnauzer said:


> I just got back from southeast Tennessee, near Ocoee. Lots of national forest land with a bunch of gravel roads. Lots of single track also.


I was there over Thanksgiving and had a lot of fun, but they don't have a real winter.


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## ZimZam (Jan 4, 2020)

Utah. Specifically around Zion. Great trails for biking and hiking and offroad MC riding. Just be prepared for the local...religion.


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