# Has anyone taken testosterone booster like A-HD?



## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Has anyone taken testosterone booster like A-HD?

BPI Sports A-HD, 28 Capsules - Anti-Estrogens - Muscle Builders - A1Supplements.com

I want to be muscular like Superman. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Take steroids then.


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## cactus1 (Jun 18, 2013)

Wore a T patch for awhile but it gave me headaches. I take Aloe Vera gel from "Forever Living" and gives me a lot of energy and does what T is supposed to do also.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

I haven't taken any testosterone booster supplements. I doubt they will do anything.

I do inject small doctor-prescribed dosages of testosterone. I take zinc, copper, and DIM to slow conversion of testosterone to estrogen. You could try that -- it wouldn't hurt anything.

The thing about testosterone -- it's great stuff, but better too little than too much. If you are getting on in years, having problems in bed, and have a few extra pounds you just can't get rid of, you probably have low testosterone. Go to a bioidentical hormone replacement therapy doctor, and get tested to make sure there is not some underlying cause for low testosterone other than your nuts not doing their job.

But if you don't have any weight or sex issues, you are probably ok. It isn't something to be taken just to increase athletic performance. The side effects of too much are pretty scary, not the least of which is shrinking testicles.

Not testosterone-related, but try about 4000 IU of vitamin D daily unless you are in the sun a lot. Vitamin D deficiency is epidemic.



> Wore a T patch for awhile but it gave me headaches.


You might have gotten too much. I had no side effects at all. To the contrary, it took a month before I noticed any difference at all.

Topical application does not work well for men. It's hard to know how much you are actually absorbing, and for a lot of guys, your skin absorbs less and less the more you use it. If you need additional testosterone, inject it. By far the cheapest and most convenient and most effective way. (Assuming you are a guy. Topical application works great for women.)


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

DennisF said:


> The side effects of too much are pretty scary, not the least of which is shrinking testicles.


That's only temporary. They come back once you are off cycle.

Anyways, I'm on the patch right now and it sucks. I need to see if I can get injectable from my doctor.

Do you give your own injections or do you have to go to the doctor for them? I know some won't prescribe the injectable and make you come to the office twice a week for injections.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

> That's only temporary. They come back once you are off cycle.


True, but better to avoid if possible. My doctor is very conservative. Start with a small dose, then increase if necessary. I have actually decreased my dose.

I do the injections at home. Actually my wife usually does it, but I can do it myself. Thigh injections usually feel like a briar stick. We have been doing it in my butt lately -- usually no pain at all, sometimes I don't even feel anything.

I inject once-a-week. Twice would be better -- at first I noticed some fluxuation, but now I can be a few days late and not notice any drop.

I know several guys on injections. Only one's doctor insisted he come to the office, and his wife is an RN for crying out loud. If yours won't let you do it at home, get another doctor. It's easy, in the thigh especially. My doctor didn't even demonstrate -- just told me what to do and to have at it. Worst case you hit a bone and it hurts. You have to be more careful in the butt to avoid the sciatic nerve, but it is still easy and there are videos on youtube if you don't mind looking at other guy's butts. Just get your wife to watch the videos


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I think my testosterone levels are falling as I get older. I no longer want to kill half the population and f#*k the rest. It's kind of nice. (Well, I don't want to kill half the population, anyway.)


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## shellshocked (Jul 9, 2011)

I have done the Testim gel for about a month and noticed a big difference in overall energy level. Doc did diagnose me with low T during my physical. However the testim has some additive that really smells bad and insurance won't cover androgel. Not ready to start doing injections. Going to try the patch - what sucks about the patch?


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

The patch doesn't like to stay when you sweat, it has to stay on 24 hours then you swap out for a new patch, it eats my skin raw, sometimes I forget to put on a new patch after I take a shower, ect. I rotate the spots I apply the patch. I use my delt, rear shoulder, and upper thigh. All the same, I take off the patch and I'm left with a raw, red swollen spot that looks like I was shot with a paintball. They also itch like the dickens after a while.

I'm calling now to see if I can get switched to injections.

Also, those of you diagnosed with low T, what were your numbers?


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## shellshocked (Jul 9, 2011)

My number was 210. Just below normal for my age according to doc. I will see how the patches work but what you describe is what I was worried about... I hate needles but that might be the only way to go. My doctor had level of 56 and uses the implant - he described the procedure and it was not pleasant but lasts for a few months.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

That's a bit lower than me. I was at 330 or 390...I can't remember. Still lower than normal for my age. Needles aren't bad. They don't hurt. Especially if someone else does the injection. You only need once a week, twice would be better though.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

shellshocked said:


> My number was 210. Just below normal for my age according to doc. I will see how the patches work but what you describe is what I was worried about... I hate needles but that might be the only way to go. My doctor had level of 56 and uses the implant - he described the procedure and it was not pleasant but lasts for a few months.


The charts that they use to determine "normal" are a joke. I am in my mid-50s, and my number was about 300 before treatment. "Low normal", but I could hardly function at all.

The implanted pellets are problematic too. First of all, they cannot be removed, so if you end up with too much, you are screwed until they run their course. They are not sterile, so infection is a possibility. And they are the most expensive option. The only thing going for them is convenience.

Injections are really no big deal. I often catch my arms and legs on blackberry vines when riding. No big deal, but the shots usually hurt less. What is mentally difficult is the fact that the needle goes in a lot deeper (1"!) But the vast majority of the pain receptors are on the surface. It would feel the same if it went in 1/8" or 1".

The medicine itself does not burn or sting when going in like some injections do. The carrier is cottonseed oil -- totally benign.

If you want to continue with gel, forget Testim or Androgel. For about $30 a compounding pharmacy can whip you up a month's supply of the same thing. However, odds are that your body will stop absorbing it and you will have to go to injections eventually anyway.


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## shellshocked (Jul 9, 2011)

DennisF said:


> The charts that they use to determine "normal" are a joke. I am mid-50s, and my number was about 300 before treatment. "Low normal", but I could hardly function at all.
> 
> The implanted pellets are problematic too. First of all, they cannot be removed, so if you end up with too much, you are screwed until they run their course. They are not sterile, so infection is a possibility. And they are the most expensive option. The only thing going for them is convenience.
> 
> ...


Well doctor called tonight and basically told me the same thing. He said the patch causes problems in most of his patients and they usually end up with the injections. He is recommending shots... Sucks getting old.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

I've used natural testosterone boosters, and found some benefit to them. 
I'm not comparing them to actual TRT or roids, because they are not. 
But my case is that I'm in my early 50's and my test levels are ok, but not as high as I would like (480 last test).

So, rather than jump on the TRT bandwagon prematurely, and shut myself down, I figured I would try something natural. 
There is some respectable clinical evidence that some of these boosters will work, especially for raising free testosterone by binding to SHBG. Stinging Nettle for example contains an ingredient 3,4, divaniltetrahydrofuran ( or something like that) that has been shown to do just that. 
DAA also has some human clinical data supporting test increase. 
Longjack, Fadogia, bulbine natalensis are other ingredients that claim to boost T. 
Most of the supplements are blends of these things. 
What I notice mostly when I take them is increased libido and really intense orgasms. That does not necessarily mean higher test, but its fun anyway . 
I have also seen some benefits in the gym, and body recomp, but I will be the first to admit this all subjective. 

To the OP, the product you list is not something I would take. Its not natural at all. If you are going to mess with synthetic hormones etc, the real pharmaceutical options are probably much more effective and safer.


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## kbeck620 (Apr 29, 2013)

OP,
If you're looking for something a little less "natural" without shutting your system down, there are a few out there. If you're looking for Test Boosters "Diesel Test Hardcore" is very good, but it can make your skin oily and break out lightly. If you want a little more edge, you can stack it with DHEA 200 (you can go up to 400mg at a time). These two products have worked successfully for me over the years. If you're looking for a Prohormone, then I'd suggest something a little "light" to start off with, then complete your cycle with the products that were listed above for your PCT. A product called Finaflex 550 (if you can still find it) or Finaflex 550-XD (available) is a great starter that should yield some great results. Some products work better than others, but no products will work with a poor diet and improper exercise.


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## Adim_X (Mar 3, 2010)

My doctor prescribed me Axiron. It is not too bad to apply in armpit if you take time. My Free T was like 45, not sure what scale that was on, but I think it was way low compared to normal. Axiron is kind of expensive but Lilly has a first month free and $25 a month copay deal. It is like 300 a month without that. I am in process of moving to testosterone cyp due to cost. My insurance sucks. I feel better, but only been on for 2.5 weeks. I seem to run out of steam at end of day.


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## bignick73 (May 25, 2012)

I've tried andogel, compounds, injections of testosterone enanthate, and clomid. They all made me feel different, clomid the worst and injections the best.

Currently trying the "natural" thing. Been taking tongkat ali extract aka longjack past few months. Seems to be working, as I usually run 150 or so on my total when off of anything and am up around 350-400 last test, with estrogens in the mind 30s (bit high, they are pretty low when on nothing). It supposedly works by stimulating the LH receptors in the testicles, so if your levels are already normal for you, I'd be surprised if you saw any results, and you have to take it for about 2 months before you notice anything.

As far as anyone wanting/needing HRT I'd highly suggest getting some books on the subject, Amazon.com: Testosterone: A Man's Guide- Second Edition eBook: Nelson Vergel: Kindle Store is one I like. It's completely different for every person and the charts are bullsh!t. My experience has also been that if you see 20 doctors you'll get 20 opinions on what and how much to take, and what level you should be at etc... You need to learn how all the hormones are linked together and what tests to order. I've had endocrinologists laugh at wanting estrogen ran with both total and free T, or for wanting prolactin checked when this started. Or one saying my pituitary is fine from LH/FSH tests and the next saying it's a tumor based of those same tests. So learn all you can and take Dr opinions with a grain of salt till you find one that actually understands this, or one that will trust you to handle it.

If you have any questions send a PM, been around the block with this stuff the past few years, it can be real hell.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Glad I stumbled on this....subscribed!

I've been on Androgel 1.62% for probably 5 months if not longer. I'm 51 and with maximum dosing of 4 pumps a day, I'm struggling to hit 300. My Doc has me doing blood work and PSA tests regularly but is now referring me to an Endocrinologist as my LH numbers aren't right. He's suggesting a pituitary connection. When I started this, I was way below 100, like around 30, IIRC.


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## bignick73 (May 25, 2012)

Oh My Sack! said:


> Glad I stumbled on this....subscribed!
> 
> I've been on Androgel 1.62% for probably 5 months if not longer. I'm 51 and with maximum dosing of 4 pumps a day, I'm struggling to hit 300. My Doc has me doing blood work and PSA tests regularly but is now referring me to an Endocrinologist as my LH numbers aren't right. He's suggesting a pituitary connection. When I started this, I was way below 100, like around 30, IIRC.


Was LH low before or after taking the Androgel?

The basic linkage there, as I understand it, is the pituitary produces LH and FSH. The LH tells the testicles to produce testosterone. At a certain point (different for everyone) Aromatase will convert the testosterone to estrogen. Then the estrogen receptors in the pituitary will tell it to stop producing LH until estrogen levels drop then the cycle starts all over again.

This is why I always check estrogen levels long with total and free T.

So if you are on the Androgel and your estrogen levels are high your LH will be low. This can be due to your natural T level just being on the low side where you actually start converting to estrogen at a total T level of 300, could be due to the application site, your level of body fat also plays a role as fat produces Aromatase, which converts T to estrogen, which estrogen helps make more body fat. This is why getting body fat percentage down will help, as well as why you are supposed to apply the topical creams to the leanest part of your body like upper arms or rib cage, and not the belly. You may also just sweat the topical stuff out, I know I did when I lived in the southeast where it was stupid humid everyday.

Make sure they run a Prolactin. If there is a pituitary tumor this will usually indicate whether or not it is hormone secreting. You may also see if they'll do a month or two of clomid before you spend the cash on a MRI. Clomid works by blocking the estrogen receptors in the pituitary, which in turn causes it to increase LH production, which raises testosterone. Downside is it raises estrogen levels which high estrogen will make you feel just as bad if not worse than the low T. Plus side is it's cheap and if LH levels are raised you can pretty well, safely assume that you pituitary is working as designed and the problem lies elsewhere, and clomid is like $7 for a month at half a pill a day, where a MRI is $10,000 before insurance. And you never know, some people find a clomid cycle that actually works for them.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Thanks for the headsup. My LH was low prior to the T therapy as I recall. My Doc was supposed to set up an appt for me with the Endo Doc but they have dropped the ball and failed at that task. I don't need a referral for my insurance but I'll call them today and light a fire under their asses. I'm dealing with another issue currently which has caused my T issue to take a back seat. I've had elevated liver enzymes (bilirubin) and a big issue with inflammation and hives for over 7 weeks. I stumbled onto a little more info on this T replacement therapy after reading this thread last night and came across some information about Hemochromatosis relating to T replacement, liver issues, etc occurring in those of Irish and European descent. I'm definitely Irish! Anyway, it was interesting and I'm going to get rolling with this issue in case there's a connection. I may snag that book you suggested, as well.


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## bignick73 (May 25, 2012)

Oh My Sack! said:


> Thanks for the headsup. My LH was low prior to the T therapy as I recall. My Doc was supposed to set up an appt for me with the Endo Doc but they have dropped the ball and failed at that task. I don't need a referral for my insurance but I'll call them today and light a fire under their asses. I'm dealing with another issue currently which has caused my T issue to take a back seat. I've had elevated liver enzymes (bilirubin) and a big issue with inflammation and hives for over 7 weeks. I stumbled onto a little more info on this T replacement therapy after reading this thread last night and came across some information about Hemochromatosis relating to T replacement, liver issues, etc occurring in those of Irish and European descent. I'm definitely Irish! Anyway, it was interesting and I'm going to get rolling with this issue in case there's a connection. I may snag that book you suggested, as well.


Yeah if you've got liver issues get that book, its a easy read and explains it really well, and options for treating the various complications that come up. The liver part is one I'm aware of but not familiar with as mine has always come back fine (another one of the tests I get ordered every 6 months or so). I want to say that Hemochromatosis can actually be the cause of a testosterone deficiency as well, but don't hold me to that. It could always end up being genetic or a bad test and the TRT not having any effect on it good or bad.

Just make sure to have that prolactin and estrogen levels checked, high estrogen usually means LH will be low. If/when you do go back on replacement you may want to try injections as you can't sweat those off, and they typically make people feel way better than the topicals. Just do em weekly and don't let them talk you into monthly ones.

Since you don't need a referral, try and find a infertility endocrinologist. They tend to have a much better understanding of this that the usual thyroid/diabetes ones.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

bignick73 said:


> Currently trying the "natural" thing. Been taking tongkat ali extract aka longjack past few months. Seems to be working, as I usually run 150 or so on my total when off of anything and am up around 350-400 last test, with estrogens in the mind 30s (bit high, they are pretty low when on nothing). It supposedly works by stimulating the LH receptors in the testicles, so if your levels are already normal for you, I'd be surprised if you saw any results, and you have to take it for about 2 months before you notice anything.


So you think you can take Longjack long term without breaks? I have been trying to cycle my test boosters to keep my body from adapting, and also to minimize any negative effects there might be from any single compound. So for example, After a month or 2 of longjack, do a month of DAA, then some stingle nettle based product, etc.
Products I have found to work pretty well are Hcgenerate, Ultra Male RX, Endosurge, Protein Factory Unleashed, and DAA.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Oh My Sack! said:


> Thanks for the headsup. My LH was low prior to the T therapy as I recall.


There are two types of testosterone deficiency. "Primary hypogonadism" occurs when your testicles can't produce enough testosterone. "Secondary hypogonadism" occurs because the hormones that tell your testicles to produce testosterone are low.

Low LH and low testosterone means that you have secondary hypogonadism. The LH is what (or one thing anyway) that tells the testicles to produce. The testicles see low LH, figure that you are fine, and slows production.

(With primary hypogonadism your LH levels would be high. Your brain wants more testosterone, so it ups the LH to tell the testicles to make more. They don't make enough, so your LH goes up even more...)

Secondary hypogonadism is harder to treat -- they have to try to figure out why your LH is low. But the good news is that you can possibly be cured and won't need testosterone.

You are doing the right thing by finding a good endocrinologist.


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## bignick73 (May 25, 2012)

smilinsteve said:


> So you think you can take Longjack long term without breaks? I have been trying to cycle my test boosters to keep my body from adapting, and also to minimize any negative effects there might be from any single compound. So for example, After a month or 2 of longjack, do a month of DAA, then some stingle nettle based product, etc.
> Products I have found to work pretty well are Hcgenerate, Ultra Male RX, Endosurge, Protein Factory Unleashed, and DAA.


I don't see why not, only been using it about 4 months at this point, last round of tests were at the beginning of May and no plans to have them again until Aug-Sep. so will have a better idea then. The one thing about that particular supplement is that you do have to cycle it short term, like 5 days on 2 off for it to work properly. Not sure about the DAA or any of the other but I'd guess they are the same and that's why some people see no results.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I am currently taking andro gel however it has no effects at all. nada nothing at all.


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## shellshocked (Jul 9, 2011)

Picard said:


> I am currently taking andro gel however it has no effects at all. nada nothing at all.


I have read posts about people getting an instant improvement. I guess some do but the doctors I have talked with say you might feel some improvement in about a week or two but it takes one to two months to realize full benefit. I have been on gel for a month and have noticed an improvement in overall energy level but that is about it - so far it has done little to help me scratch porn star off my bucket list. You need to get tested after 30-60 days to see if it is actually raising your levels - you may need a larger dose.


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## Bronsondude (Apr 23, 2013)

I'm actually going in weekly for injections. Just starting second month. I live in the Phoenix, AZ area. And with temps hitting 110-115 daily lately what I've really noticed is recovery has really gotten a lot better. Before starting injections I could barely ride with 2 days off. This week I'm gonna try 2 days in a row. For reference I'm 43 and my tes levels were 186 before injections. Last blood test showed levels at 810. What a difference it's made in my riding lately. I'm a happy camper.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Since this thread was awakened by a spammy post I figured I'd update my experience. Got in with a good Endocrinologist. When he saw my old blood work from when this all started with my Primary Doc, he said with numbers that low, I should have had a Brain Scan (MRI). He handed me a script to go get a scan and more blood work up. The scan was negative, no pituitary tumor. He kept me on the max dose of Androgel for a period and retested me after 1 month. No bueno, I was too low for being on such a high dose. Androgel just loses effectiveness. Now, I'm on 1mL of injectable Testosterone Cyprionate every 2 weeks. Had my 5th shot today. I'll do my first blood test in a few weeks to see where I'm at. He's had me come in for the injections and I'm hoping I can get on a "self injected" program soon to reduce my cost. The difference in my attitude, drive, and energy has been positively significant. I ride 3 to 4 times a week, on average about 12 miles / 1500' each ride. Going bigger is much easier, now. I'm always ready to go again when I get done with a ride. Before, I could easily talk myself out of a ride. So far, win-win.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

No need for T-booster, which only nets more INACTIVE Testosterone. Guess what is the best semi-natural way to secrete ACTIVE serum T levels? Cholesterol....not really the killer, bad guy Big Pharma always makes it out to be. I had two friends who both lived over 90 and they had cholesterol levels that would make most physicians gasp(over 300!). 

They both ate whatever they liked(butter, steak, shellfish, pastries, etc)....however, all in moderation - they never went apesh*t with the decadent food....and, they always exercised. One of them was still having sex, up until he died!!!

**Waiting to get flamed**


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Zachariah said:


> No need for T-booster, which only nets more INACTIVE Testosterone. Guess what is the best semi-natural way to secrete ACTIVE serum T levels? Cholesterol....not really the killer, bad guy Big Pharma always makes it out to be. I had two friends who both lived over 90 and they had cholesterol levels that would make most physicians gasp(over 300!).
> 
> They both ate whatever they liked(butter, steak, shellfish, pastries, etc)....however, all in moderation - they never went apesh*t with the decadent food....and, they always exercised. One of them was still having sex, up until he died!!!
> 
> **Waiting to get flamed**


No flaming here. I think you're right on.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

I would tend to agree, as well, with one caveat. Food now, is not like what our aged elders were eating. I'm not of family lineage of very old elders. My wife, however, is. Old school Swiss-Italian Immigrant Dairy Farmers. Both her Noni's lived to be over 100, Gampa's in their 90's, the oldest was 104. Heavyset men/women that worked very hard. Lived well up to the very end with cheeses, butters, salamis, and wine at every single meal. Sh!t that modern medicine would say guarantees an early death. Today? Processed sh!t is what America eats. A Big Mac, fries, coke, and a Lipitor is the norm.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Thanks for the update Sack. Glad the MRI came back clean.

I'm surprised that you are getting such good results so quickly. It will only improve. Be sure to take 50mg zinc, 2mg copper, and a DIM every day to slow estrogen conversion.

I hope you can get self-injection going. Just going to the doctor every two weeks is a big expense in time and gas even if he didn't charge for the visit. Plus, you can inject .5 cc every week, which will work a lot better. After two weeks, your levels are getting low. Some guys even inject twice a week. I noticed some fluctuation at first, but weekly is fine now.

BTW, that is the same dose my doctor started me at. I am at .6 or .7 cc weekly now.

Costco is the cheapest place I have found for the Testosterone Cypionate. Sam's club is about the same. You don't have to be members to use the pharmacy at either place. But Costco has a program for members that gives you $4 off your prescription if insurance doesn't cover it. My wife and I each have two prescriptions, so that more than pays for the membership.

I get the syringes and needles mail-order from allegromedical.com. No prescription is needed. I draw out of the vial with 20 gauge, then switch to 25 ga to inject.

Another thing I have been taking is L-Citrulline. It gets converted to L-Arginine, which is converted to Nitrous Oxide. Sort of like a natural Viagra. I don't really have any erectile problems thanks to the testosterone, but it helps me a little. Some guys swear by it. But what I have noticed is that it practically eliminates muscle soreness from biking.

I take four of these on an empty stomach daily:
Amazon.com: NOW Foods L-Citrulline 750mg, 180 Capsules,: Health & Personal Care



Zachariah said:


> ....and, they always exercised. One of them was still having sex, up until he died!!!


That's how I want to go. That or riding my bike. Unless we can figure out a way to do both -- a recumbent maybe 

Take care!


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Oh My Sack! said:


> Since this thread was awakened by a spammy post I figured I'd update my experience. Got in with a good Endocrinologist. When he saw my old blood work from when this all started with my Primary Doc, he said with numbers that low, I should have had a Brain Scan (MRI). He handed me a script to go get a scan and more blood work up. The scan was negative, no pituitary tumor. He kept me on the max dose of Androgel for a period and retested me after 1 month. No bueno, I was too low for being on such a high dose. Androgel just loses effectiveness. Now, I'm on 1mL of injectable Testosterone Cyprionate every 2 weeks. Had my 5th shot today. I'll do my first blood test in a few weeks to see where I'm at. He's had me come in for the injections and I'm hoping I can get on a "self injected" program soon to reduce my cost. The difference in my attitude, drive, and energy has been positively significant. I ride 3 to 4 times a week, on average about 12 miles / 1500' each ride. Going bigger is much easier, now. I'm always ready to go again when I get done with a ride. Before, I could easily talk myself out of a ride. So far, win-win.


Interesting. keep us posted! I agree with Dennis and have read that weekly will keep your levels more steady. You definitely need to become self sufficient with this and not need to visit the doc for every shot. How often will you need blood work done? Have you discussed HCG and anti estrogens to go with your regimin? Do you have a target T level?


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Zachariah said:


> No need for T-booster, which only nets more INACTIVE Testosterone. Guess what is the best semi-natural way to secrete ACTIVE serum T levels? Cholesterol....not really the killer, bad guy Big Pharma always makes it out to be. I had two friends who both lived over 90 and they had cholesterol levels that would make most physicians gasp(over 300!).
> 
> They both ate whatever they liked(butter, steak, shellfish, pastries, etc)....however, all in moderation - they never went apesh*t with the decadent food....and, they always exercised. One of them was still having sex, up until he died!!!
> 
> **Waiting to get flamed**


Here's that flame you've been begging for 

Many of the natural T boosters on the market work by binding to SHBG which is the protein that grabs up testosterone and makes it inactive. So the T booster clogs the binding site of SHBG so test can't bind to it, thereby increasing free and active T.

Cholesterol is a precursor to testosterone, but increasing cholesterol does not increase testosterone, and there is no correlation that I am aware, between T and C levels. It is regulated through other pathways, not by C levels.

The stories about butter and egg eating fat people who live until 90 are no different than the guy who smokes all his life and lives until 90. Anecdotal stories like that have nothing to do with determining risk in a population.

With that said, total cholesterol is not a good predictor of risk, but a look at a complete lipid profile gives a very good prediction of risk. 
People with poor diets, bad lipid profiles, who smoke, etc might live a long time, but they have lower odds of a long and or healthy life than those people without those risk factors.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

Damn! I just went to Costco & my testosterone cypionate that normally costs about $65 went up to $102. Still cheaper than a divorce I guess : )

My doctor shoots for 600 - 700 initially, but adjusts the dosage based on symptoms and performance. I got lab tests every 6 months at first, but now just as-needed. It's been about two years since my last tests.

Thanks for the good info Steve.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

DennisF said:


> Damn! I just went to Costco & my testosterone cypionate that normally costs about $65 went up to S102. Still cheaper than a divorce I guess : )
> 
> My doctor shoots for 600 - 700 initially, but adjusts the dosage based on symptoms and performance. I got lab tests every 6 months at first, but now just as-needed. It's been aboit two years since my last tests.


Are you taking an AI? Do you monitor blood lipids? Any problems with BPH?


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## pattongb (Jun 5, 2011)

MSU Alum said:


> I think my testosterone levels are falling as I get older. I no longer want to kill half the population and f#*k the rest. It's kind of nice. (Well, I don't want to kill half the population, anyway.)


ROFL!! Epic! Thanks, made my day.


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## DennisF (Nov 4, 2011)

smilinsteve said:


> Are you taking an AI? Do you monitor blood lipids? Any problems with BPH?


Just DIM and Zinc to control estrogen conversion. I don't know if they actually function as an Aromatase Inhibitor or not. I take 2 mg copper per day since Zinc tends to deplete copper.

Here is the DIM I use
Nature's Way DIM-plus (Diindolylmethane) 120 Caps - Swanson Health Products
I only take one capsule per day instead of the 2 capsules recommended on the bottle, as I was advised that the stuff is very effective, and could eliminate too much estrogen, which is necessary for morning erections.

I had complete blood work done when I started testosterone, but no, I do not routinely monitor lipids, unless you count the free cholesterol screening they do when I donate blood, and it always comes back good.

BPH: In my 40's, long before I started testosterone, things started not flowing as well, but never any problems, just part of aging. I take Beta Sitosterol, which helps. My doctor disagrees, but says it isn't hurting anything but my wallet. My PSA is low, about 4 as I recall, and actually went down a tad after I started testosterone. I don't think the testosterone actually affected it one way or the other. They're saying now that PSA isn't really a good indicator of prostate cancer, so I don't worry about it anymore.


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