# Racer X build



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

want to make this lightest possible, thinking about changing the headset for tune or extralite and maybe going with a lefty sl w/rlc(claimed 1380g) if lighter than the fox100x(1675g what I remember) also waiting for some new stuff to come out marta mags, ninos tubes, 09 duraace rear & front der and thinking about building a lighter wheelset this one is 1300g ac hubs, ti spokes, olimpic rims new one would be tune/extralite hubs, ti pillar spokes, 7000 race rims calculated 1100g. what do you think? almost forgot one thing is the lefty going to mess the geo on the racer x?
frame racer x 2529g
bb ac ti spindle actiontech cups 131
cranks power arms 321
crank bolts al 10
ring bolts 7
b ring sugino shaved 42 49
s ring al 30 23
seat becker 64
seatpost kcnc ti scandium needs to be cut from 400mm
seatclamp extralite 13
chain kmc 226
cassette al 144
stem extralite 87
bar ec90 99


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## 95bonty (Oct 6, 2004)

I presume you're thinking Dura-Ace front mech converted to top pull using an adaptor?

I tried this on my RX for a few months, but eventually gave it up and returned to a boat anchor XT. You'll find the cable will slightly foul the linkage (until you sit on the bike and then it just clears the link), maybe because of this i found the shifting (2x9 SRAM) required lots of effort and felt like it was going to damage the gripshift. 

rather than the lefty i'd seriously consider the Magura Durin SL, I'm using the regular Durin and have been really impressed with it on the RX. 

My RX is down to 20.5 possibly heavy compared to yours, but i'm pretty happy with it.


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

95bonty said:


> I presume you're thinking Dura-Ace front mech converted to top pull using an adaptor?
> 
> I tried this on my RX for a few months, but eventually gave it up and returned to a boat anchor XT. You'll find the cable will slightly foul the linkage (until you sit on the bike and then it just clears the link), maybe because of this i found the shifting (2x9 SRAM) required lots of effort and felt like it was going to damage the gripshift.
> 
> ...


thanks for saving me all the trouble will start looking for an older XTR and do a search on the Durin SL, you got pics of your RX?


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

Limon: have you seen the Scott Scale limited with a lefty, or the Yeti? They both have very nice light steerers that are machined to accept a standard stem. They are both in the "post you lightweight bikes" post in this weight weenies forum. Lefty's are great, one of the best I have ridden and raced. If you are going to go with a lefty, save the $300 and get a Carbon SL with the one piece lower (available sometime in Feb.). This new lefty is only 1155g (claimed), and is even lighter than the '08's 1250g. For a light bike build, I would strongly look into a lefty. There may (rumor) be lefty hubs coming from Tune or some other super light euro brand. The CDale ones arnt bad though, mine was 117g. Lefty's are great.

Eliflap had his lefty tuned by 88+, the same headshok clinic that did Roel Paulisson's Olympic sub 1100gr lefty.

Heres a link to the weight of the lefty.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4595535#poststop


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## jmartpr (Jun 16, 2008)

Limon said:


> want to make this lightest possible, thinking about changing the headset for tune or extralite and maybe going with a lefty sl w/rlc(claimed 1380g) if lighter than the fox100x(1675g what I remember) also waiting for some new stuff to come out marta mags, ninos tubes, 09 duraace rear & front der and thinking about building a lighter wheelset this one is 1300g ac hubs, ti spokes, olimpic rims new one would be tune/extralite hubs, ti pillar spokes, 7000 race rims calculated 1100g. what do you think? almost forgot one thing is the lefty going to mess the geo on the racer x?
> frame racer x 2529g
> bb ac ti spindle actiontech cups 131
> cranks power arms 321
> ...


You pretty much have a good lightweight part setup already picked. Instead of a Lefty..how about a Magura Durin SL? It should be around 1370 grams uncut.Tune Price/Princess with Sapin CX ray and ZTR Race 7000 is 1165 grams. Tune has those wheels on stock or you can purchase the parts and build. Extralite is probably the lightest headset (56 gr.) followed by the Tune (65 gr.). Seatpost you could go lighter with AX or Schmolke if you can spend the $$$. Seatclamps and derailleur clamp for that Dura Ace front derailleur you can use BTP stuff, 5 grams each in carbon. If you get the Magura Marta Mag you could swap the rotors for some Scrub Performance (56 grams each in 160 mm), but I see you already have Stan's rotors.


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

Lefty with a custom steerer is still lighter than a magura...The magura's also have a recall right now...The fork bridges are breaking. The bugs in the lefty were worked out in 2006...I tend to trust products that have been made public for a few years, and dont have an active recall.

The lefty is now 100gr lighter than the one pictured, and can be tuned to drop even more weight.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=5077658#poststop

http://www.eightyaid.com/


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## jmartpr (Jun 16, 2008)

amillmtb said:


> Lefty with a custom steerer is still lighter than a magura...The magura's also have a recall right now...The fork bridges are breaking. The bugs in the lefty were worked out in 2006...I tend to trust products that have been made public for a few years, and dont have an active recall.
> 
> The lefty is now 100gr lighter than the one pictured, and can be tuned to drop even more weight.
> 
> ...


Recal is only on the earlier models...not the SL's....While Leftys don't have active recalls...Have you ever seen the type of maintenance you have to keep with a Lefty? Leftys are on our shop all the time for maintence....read carefully Cannodale's literature. Anyway some of us are not too fund on propietary tech and the Lefty single leg looks....


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

jmartpr said:


> Recal is only on the earlier models...not the SL's....While Leftys don't have active recalls...Have you ever seen the type of maintenance you have to keep with a Lefty? Leftys are on our shop all the time for maintence....read carefully Cannodale's literature. Anyway some of us are not too fund on propietary tech and the Lefty single leg looks....


No need to lecture me on Lefty's maintenance, I do repairs on them at the shop that I work at.

Lefty's are very expensive though.


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

so magura durin sl 1370g + 100g hub or lefty around the same + 120g hub not to much difference both have good reviews pretty much comes to which one looks better, one leg or 2 arches and how much will the head tube angle change with the lefty?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Nice Bike!


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> Nice Bike!


Thank you!
waiting for Santa to bring me Extralite hubs, whats the lightest 28 hole rim?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Limon said:


> Thank you!
> waiting for Santa to bring me Extralite hubs, whats the lightest 28 hole rim?


mmMMMM Extralite hubs! the disc versions?

If you are looking for disc only versions:

either
Dtswiss XRC 330 28H
or
Alex Rims XCR Pro 28H


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## jmartpr (Jun 16, 2008)

Totally agree on the DT Carbon rims and the Alex as the lightest in 28H...if you want better tubeless performance (using just yellow type and valve with any tyre) the NoTubes Olympics are availabel in 28H.


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

were can I get the alex xcr rims in 28?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Limon said:


> were can I get the alex xcr rims in 28?


email Jeremy

http://www.alchemybicycleworks.com/

http://cgi.ebay.com/Alex-Rim-Scandi...58089QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713.m153.l1262
(28h is not listed anymore, you probably need to email the seller and ask)


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

Nice build, wow.


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## Scalty (Feb 18, 2008)

Limon said:


> so magura durin sl 1370g + 100g hub or lefty around the same + 120g hub not to much difference both have good reviews pretty much comes to which one looks better, one leg or 2 arches and how much will the head tube angle change with the lefty?


magura durin sl 1370g + 100g hub + 25g skewer = 1495g
or lefty around the same (yes with my special steertube 1358g) + 113g FRM hub (without skewer) = 1471g (-30g tuned lefty sl or -100g with new lefty sl2)
and then you must think about the differents between forks, stiffness, travel an d so on...

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=5077658#poststop


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

IAmtnbikr said:


> Nice build, wow.


thanks, extralite hubs should be here monday


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Scalty said:


> magura durin sl 1370g + 100g hub + 25g skewer = 1495g
> or lefty around the same (yes with my special steertube 1358g) + 113g FRM hub (without skewer) = 1471g (-30g tuned lefty sl or -100g with new lefty sl2)
> and then you must think about the differents between forks, stiffness, travel an d so on...
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=5077658#poststop


can you sell me a steertube and how much is steering going to be affected with the taller fork?
thanks


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Limon said:


> thanks, extralite hubs should be here monday


Are you building the wheels yourself?


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> Are you building the wheels yourself?


yup, just need to find the alex rims and pillar spokes I'm guessing 1150g


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Limon said:


> yup, just need to find the alex rims and pillar spokes I'm guessing 1150g


are you getting both the Alex rims and pillar spokes from http://www.alchemybicycleworks.com/ ?

Looks like you are going to one up me. I'm going with Tune hubs intstead of the Extralite SPDs.... :madmax:


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> are you getting both the Alex rims and pillar spokes from http://www.alchemybicycleworks.com/ ?
> 
> Looks like you are going to one up me. I'm going with Tune hubs intstead of the Extralite SPDs.... :madmax:


haven't contacted them yet, have you? do they have the rims for shure?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Limon said:


> haven't contacted them yet, have you? do they have the rims for shure?


Yup. I've been talking with Jeremy to get him to build me my wheelset. I'm not good at building wheels, I have no patience to build them myself and I let the pros do it.

My build will most likely be:
Tune King Kong (28fr, 32rear)
Pillar 1422 Ti spokes
Alex XCR Pro rims

still working on price. I think they are closed for the holidays.


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> Yup. I've been talking with Jeremy to get him to build me my wheelset. I'm not good at building wheels, I have no patience to build them myself and I let the pros do it.
> 
> My build will most likely be:
> Tune King Kong (28fr, 32rear)
> ...


I'll call on monday and try to contact them, what are those wheels for if you don't mind?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Limon said:


> I'll call on monday and try to contact them, what are those wheels for if you don't mind?


They are going into my New Titanium hardtail project

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=477909


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> They are going into my New Titanium hardtail project
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=477909


you got any dropout pics you can post?


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

extralite hubs showed up today can't wait to build them


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Limon,

Where did you buy the extralite hubs from? How much did you pay?


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> Limon,
> 
> Where did you buy the extralite hubs from? How much did you pay?


fair wheel bikes $757 you like? also talked to jeremy about rims and spokes.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Limon said:


> fair wheel bikes $757 you like? also talked to jeremy about rims and spokes.


I like a lot!:thumbsup:


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

found this older xtr front der at 106g, 15g lighter than the newer one :thumbsup:


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

looks like a M952 FD. I use the same one for my Kona. If you are truely hard core you should use a Dura-Ace 7800 (only if you are using 2x9 though).


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

I was but 95bonty said this happen to him, is this what your talking about?

I presume you're thinking Dura-Ace front mech converted to top pull using an adaptor?

I tried this on my RX for a few months, but eventually gave it up and returned to a boat anchor XT. You'll find the cable will slightly foul the linkage (until you sit on the bike and then it just clears the link), maybe because of this i found the shifting (2x9 SRAM) required lots of effort and felt like it was going to damage the gripshift.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

so was 95bonty running a sram force/red front derailleur with the speen adapter? Or was he running a dura-ace setup? I didn't quite understand his original post in the same thread you read.


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

got me there  where do I get the adapter? I already have the DuraAce der.


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## 95bonty (Oct 6, 2004)

*clarity*

i was running a dura-ace 7800 front mech with a speed adaptor and Sram x.0 grip shifters.

the cranks are raceface turbines with Boone chainrings 29/42 and a narrow 107? Phil Wood BB. adaptor from www.speen.de

there were two issues with the setup - the angle of the front derailleur cable from cable stop to the Adaptor meant the cable was pushed up against the RX carbon link and looked likely to rub.

The second was the level of resistance when shifting into the big ring, it felt like i was having to really torque hard on the grip shift to get to the furthest point and the tension on the cable was so high it would sometimes click back a notch and drop the chain to the inner ring.

maybe i had it setup wrong, but i tried half a dozen times, new cables, new lube, changing front mech settings, reangling the front mech and nothing seemed to improve it.

One possible option is Nino's raceface next 2x9 setup - run a larger inner ring in the granny position and mount the outer ring in the middle ring position - this would mean less distance for the front mech to shift outwards and might work better.

Limon - sorry no pics at the moment, but I have a spare Speed dura-ace adaptor i could send you for free if you' want to PM me. if you get it working well on the RX then I'll change right back.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Hrm... interesting...

Is the Racer X a 68 mm bottom bracket shell? Or 73 mm bottom bracket shell?


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## 95bonty (Oct 6, 2004)

RX BB shell is 73mm - although I've got a 68x107mm phil wood bb in there without issue.


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

thanks for explaining I'll try it and let you know. 
thanks pm sent


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## 95bonty (Oct 6, 2004)

*chain line adjustment?*

Hey Limon,ok, so this discussion and possible weight saving has me reconsidering the front mech situation...

I've examined the 7800 front mech and removed a small nubbin of metal (visible when the front mech is upside down) which prevented further outward movement.

having removed this and remounted it - the mech can easily move to the outer chainring when pushed by hand...BUT, when mounted to the shifter it's incredibly stiff to move and fails to pull enough cable to push it far enough. :madman:

so...next option, which I haven't tried yet is tweaking my chainline slightly and bringing the chainset about 1-2mm closer to the BB by adjusting the BB offset...

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with converting Sram force front mechs for top pull and whether the spring tension is less than the Dura-ace one??


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Tiffster converted a Sram Red to work on his bike. I believe he made his own lever arm. I do know Speen.de makes on now for the Sram Red front derailleur. 

I do agree that front derailleurs have very limited outward travel. Perhaps a shorter/or longer set screw would help? I forget which was makes the arm swing outwards more... is it counterclockwise or clockwise?


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

95bonty said:


> Hey Limon,ok, so this discussion and possible weight saving has me reconsidering the front mech situation...
> 
> I've examined the 7800 front mech and removed a small nubbin of metal (visible when the front mech is upside down) which prevented further outward movement.
> 
> ...


whats your chainline and is your ring a 42t?


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> Tiffster converted a Sram Red to work on his bike. I believe he made his own lever arm. I do know Speen.de makes on now for the Sram Red front derailleur.
> 
> I do agree that front derailleurs have very limited outward travel. Perhaps a shorter/or longer set screw would help? I forget which was makes the arm swing outwards more... is it counterclockwise or clockwise?


whats the weight on the red derailleur?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

weightweenies listing page says 70.6 g for Sram Red Braze On.


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

parlee clamp 7g + red der 70g would be sweet, the parlee clamp with a hole might work for your little problem you have going on


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Limon said:


> parlee clamp 7g + red der 70g would be sweet, the parlee clamp with a hole might work for your little problem you have going on


It might... I'm going to go at it with a file first.

But if you are thinking non-shimano, why not think about a 2008 Campagnolo Super Record 10s Front Derailleur on closeout sale somewhere? Even more bling, and I think you can buy them with a clamp that can fit your bike.


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

now you got me thinking and searching


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

there are two options for the Campagnolo FD converted to to pull modification.

http://www.speen.de/

or

scroll to bottom of this thread
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=340412&highlight=Record


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## 95bonty (Oct 6, 2004)

*done*

sorry not sure on my chainline - happy to measure it if someone breaks down how to.

ok, so i moved the bb inboard about 1.5mm and success. on the stand it looks like the mech doesn't shift quite enough and rubs the outer plates of the chain, but when the bike has a rider on it compressing the suspension this vanishes. i think the compressed suspension pushes the RX linkage down and removes the contact between the front derailleur cable and the linkage.

it's still stiffer to shift than a standard mech - but is considerably lighter.

yes - front ring is a 42


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## 95bonty (Oct 6, 2004)

*nice link*

this looks like a great option, but has any one done it recently?

The campag record 2008 spares exploded diagram looks like this part is now riveted instead of bolted in one of the positions - making it no longer a simple matter to change.

looking back the 2007 version seems to be bolted at one point and split ring at the other - so an easy swap.

So my guess is the mech in the pics was an 2007 Record and this was the last year this mod was a straight swap...but if someone know's different then great!


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

*rims & spokes*

Alex XCR-Pro scandium rims 294+297g
Pillar 1422 ti spokes 179.8g
complete wheelset should be around 1080g


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

I do indeed have a Sram Red front mech setup on my bike.

Trouble with the Speen Adapter is that it is designed for using the mech when you run your chainrings with the middle ring at the granny ring position and the outer ring at the middle ring position which means its impossible to shift far enough to the outer ring.

As you have discovered it also makes the shifting a little bit hard. Which is why i make my own adapter - it allows me to use the front mech in a normal way and becuase my adapter sits lower than the speen adapter, the cable pull exherts a greater pull on the mech making it shift easy.


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## 95bonty (Oct 6, 2004)

i for one am hoping that Sram XX sees the production of a lightweight (Red derived) top pull front mech for those of us running two ring systems...


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Limon said:


> Alex XCR-Pro scandium rims 293+297g
> Pillar 1422 ti spokes 187g
> complete wheelset should be around 1080g


No pics? come on! Let's see some pics!


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

*pics*

heres some pics, rims have no decals saved 6g


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Nice! 
what are you impression on the spokes? I'm still waiting on my wheelset with those rims, spokes and tune hubs. The Alex XCR rims I'll be getting have eyelets though, the builder can't obtain the non eyelet ones.


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## rd3 (Mar 18, 2006)

Limon, Do you still have that custom carbon fiber Racer X frame that you posted a while back? How is its weight compared to the stock frame?


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> Nice!
> what are you impression on the spokes? I'm still waiting on my wheelset with those rims, spokes and tune hubs. The Alex XCR rims I'll be getting have eyelets though, the builder can't obtain the non eyelet ones.


these rims have eyelets I think I got very lucky about the spokes I'll let you know tomorrow when I build them, when are yours coming?


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

rd3 said:


> Limon, Do you still have that custom carbon fiber Racer X frame that you posted a while back? How is its weight compared to the stock frame?


still got it, the carbon frame weighs 2280g and the Al frame weighs 2529g thats 249g heavier I have that one setup with v brakes


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> Nice!
> what are you impression on the spokes? I'm still waiting on my wheelset with those rims, spokes and tune hubs.


just finished building the rear wheel, no problems with the pillar 1422 Ti spokes the build went very smooth :thumbsup:


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Limon said:


> just finished building the rear wheel, no problems with the pillar 1422 Ti spokes the build went very smooth :thumbsup:


You need to post more pictures! Was it hard to judge tension on the spokes?


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> You need to post more pictures! Was it hard to judge tension on the spokes?


not hard at all just like any other spoke just make shure u use anti-seize but did run into a little problem don't know how to take apart the front hub to put the radial spokes in, anybody?


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

*front wheel and der*

finished the front wheel, tuned front and rear DA 7900 derailleurs and tune headset in the way. still waiting for marta mag brakes.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Do you really like that fork to keep it on this bike? Kinda odd to see so many bling parts, and that fork. 

Personally, I did not like how it worked.


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

*pics*

only missing brakes(rotors and rotor bolts included) and pedals


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Curmy said:


> Do you really like that fork to keep it on this bike? Kinda odd to see so many bling parts, and that fork.
> 
> Personally, I did not like how it worked.


I like it but I'm ready for new and lighter. can I tune a new Sid to work like a 100X inertia valve? or somekind of bob-free suspension?


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Limon said:


> I like it but I'm ready for new and lighter. can I tune a new Sid to work like a 100X inertia valve? or somekind of bob-free suspension?


Neither my SID, no my Maguras bob much, and they certainly do not feel as odd to me as 100X did. I guess your choice is R7 MRD, Durin SL and Race, SID, newer Fox.. My current favorite is Magura..


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## SKullman (Oct 4, 2004)

whitebrothers magic 80/100

http://www.whitebrotherscycling.com/forkspecs/magic-80.html


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

SKullman said:


> whitebrothers magic 80/100
> 
> http://www.whitebrotherscycling.com/forkspecs/magic-80.html
> 
> T


That is a really heavy fork for such a light build. I had to pick a heavy fork to use I would go with Fox F100RLC 2009 Model. The 2009 is lighter than the 2008 model. The 2010 one should be released soon as Fox seems to release their forks at a odd time compared to the rest of the industry. I'm curious to see if Fox could make the F100 RLC any lighter for 2010.


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

SKullman said:


> whitebrothers magic 80/100
> 
> http://www.whitebrotherscycling.com/forkspecs/magic-80.html


got one but is the heavyest at 1750g


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> That is a really heavy fork for such a light build. I had to pick a heavy fork to use I would go with Fox F100RLC 2009 Model. The 2009 is lighter than the 2008 model. The 2010 one should be released soon as Fox seems to release their forks at a odd time compared to the rest of the industry. I'm curious to see if Fox could make the F100 RLC any lighter for 2010.


I'm going with a Sid but should I wait for the carbon one? when is it coming out?


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## rd3 (Mar 18, 2006)

A carbon Pace suspension fork would look killer on that and I think there is a version with lockout or lock down.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Does the front dérailleur shift properly? It looks like a 2009 dura ace 7900.


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## 95bonty (Oct 6, 2004)

*hmm*



rd3 said:


> A carbon Pace suspension fork would look killer on that and I think there is a version with lockout or lock down.


on past experience, i'd have to say don't go the Pace fork it really doesn't do the frame justice - magura durin SL on the other hand would be killer...

so, what's the front mech handle like?


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

thanks bonty for the adapter its on there but its not tuned yet I still have to play with it, the der is a 7900 and I'm not even shure if its compatible with XTR, is it?


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

*tune headset*

just got this in tune headset 77.7g


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Nice! I'm a fan of the tune headset. I thought you would've went with the extralite to match your hubs.

btw I did not think the 7900 FD is compatible with XTR. I heard it is not compatible with the old 7800 dura-ace shifters, so that leads me to believe it is a different pull ratio. 

I could be wrong though


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Cheers! said:


> Nice! I'm a fan of the tune headset. I thought you would've went with the extralite to match your hubs.


And why is it better then 65g Crank Brothers headset?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Personally I think it is slightly stronger than the Crank Brother's Headset. The crank brother's headset uses the cups as races. Where as the Tune headset is still more of a traditional method of machining the cups out of aluminum first then pressing in bearings with their own races.

In the case of the tune with independent bearings you can create a bearing race using high carbon steel that you heat treat to achieve a very high surface hardness. This can then be ground to very high precision. The manufacturing difficulties are passed on to bearing companies such as NSK, SKF, Timken, etc... and they have decades of experience on how to properly match the precision in bearing races, balls, and cages. 

In the case of the crankbrother's directheadset (TM), they use the race as the cup as well. Or you can say the cup as a race too. To be able to precisely grind that is difficult. The material of the race is also not very hard unless you buy their steel version versus their stainless steel version. The precision of all the cups aka races is what I question. Crankbrothers essentially created their own bearing as the entire headset is a bearing. 

However you can be of the opinion that precision does not matter in that headsets are not trying to be bearings used to control a robotic manipulator to .00001 inch. In that case the crankbrother headsets are fine. Plus Chris King has been making their own bearings for at least a decade...


----------



## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

I have 2 of these Crank Brothers Cobalt SL Directsets and both of them have sealed bearings that sit in machined cups, not loose balls, or caged balls riding in the headset bearing races/cups.

http://www.crankbrothers.com/directsets_cobaltsl.php


----------



## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Cheers! said:


> However you can be of the opinion that precision does not matter in that headsets are not trying to be bearings used to control a robotic manipulator to .00001 inch. In that case the crankbrother headsets are fine. Plus Chris King has been making their own bearings for at least a decade...


I do not think that accuracy of manufacturing is of any concern. So far I am using two Opiums (sealed 34-ball ones, not 28 with a retainer like in Cobalt) for a few months, and it holds and spins just like any other good headset, including on my Coiler that took a bit of hucking. It does not seem as well sealed as CK, but it is easy to clean, and it is not too muddy around here. I will keep'em for a while.


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> Nice! I'm a fan of the tune headset. I thought you would've went with the extralite to match your hubs.
> 
> btw I did not think the 7900 FD is compatible with XTR. I heard it is not compatible with the old 7800 dura-ace shifters, so that leads me to believe it is a different pull ratio.
> 
> I could be wrong though


the tune looks better to me and the extralite only comes in black I didn't want a black headset with a black frame, on the crank brothers headset I have some on thinwalled headtubes and it looks perfect but it looks tiny on aluminum headtubes I just don't like it. I think you're right on the 7900 der but I'm going to try it anyway who knows it might work.


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

What weight was your extralite wheelset in the end?


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> What weight was your extralite wheelset in the end?


heres the final weight my mid size scale is broken cant weigh the complete wheels for now :madman: 
front wheel 485.9g
rim 294.1
spokes radial 43.1
3x 45.6
nipples 8.6
hub 94.5

rear wheel 593.5
rim 297.2
spokes 3x 91.2
nipples 8.6
hub 196.5

1079.4 + anti seize


----------



## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

Limon said:


> heres the final weight my mid size scale is broken cant weigh the complete wheels for now :madman:
> front wheel 485.9g
> rim 294.1
> spokes radial 43.1
> ...


Wow...thats light, have any pics of the wheels built?


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

amillmtb said:


> Wow...thats light, have any pics of the wheels built?


here are the wheels complete


----------



## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

what's the final build weight?


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

show off! I'm not jealous you have lighter wheels than me. 

his final build weight is: *1079g* + whatever method he will use as rim strip or plugs. It is hard to believe that you are a full 100g lighter than me. I thought 1185g was light... but damn!


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> show off! I'm not jealous you have lighter wheels than me.
> 
> his final build weight is: *1079g* + whatever method he will use as rim strip or plugs. It is hard to believe that you are a full 100g lighter than me. I thought 1185g was light... but damn!


I wonder if I can go full ceramic bearings on this things that would be sweet


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

You think you can go sub 1000g?


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> You think you can go sub 1000g?


now you got me thinking, how much can I save with ceramic bearings? and I thought I was done :madman:


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

The tune King front hub with two bearings was 141g. With hybrid Enduro ceramic bearings it dropped to 134.5g. 

So just the front hub I saved 6.5g. The rear? hrm... I'm not sure. How many bearings are there in the rear Extralite SPD?

My bearings are hybrid ceramic. Not full ceramic. I would assume if you went full ceramic you would save even more. But then the price is starting to go to expoential.

I think you would the first person in the world that built a sub 1000g disc braked mountain bike wheelset. That would be pretty damn impressive.


----------



## luffy (Nov 15, 2005)

you don't really need ALL of those splines on the freehub body do you? some of the new fulcrum freehubs are machined off..... I'm sure you must own a file or two


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> The tune King front hub with two bearings was 141g. With hybrid Enduro ceramic bearings it dropped to 134.5g.
> 
> So just the front hub I saved 6.5g. The rear? hrm... I'm not sure. How many bearings are there in the rear Extralite SPD?
> 
> ...


Ok, looking at Oles wheels it looks like Boca PeekaBoo in full ceramic are you out there Ole? need your advice please.


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

luffy said:


> you don't really need ALL of those splines on the freehub body do you? some of the new fulcrum freehubs are machined off..... I'm sure you must own a file or two


I'm leaving that one for last


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

*Upgrade*

upgraded the frame to an X but need to change all the bolts to ti.


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

*upgrade*

more pics


----------



## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

Nice. With a dt carbon shock , you can knock ~100g off the weight.


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

protocol_droid said:


> Nice. With a dt carbon shock , you can knock ~100g off the weight.


is DT propedal? 100g would be very nice.


----------



## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

No propedal, just a lockout switch.


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

damn nice! look at those beautiful welds on the head tube. Sorry for my lack of knowledge about Titus bikes. What is the difference between this frame and the one you started off with? How come you are not using the Titus bike with the carbon front triangle?


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> damn nice! look at those beautiful welds on the head tube. Sorry for my lack of knowledge about Titus bikes. What is the difference between this frame and the one you started off with? How come you are not using the Titus bike with the carbon front triangle?


the 09 X is half pound lighter than the 08 Racer X, lighter asymmetrical chainstays, lighter and stiffer one-piece carbon fiber seatstay, one-piece carbon fiber X-Link instead of bolted three piece. the only thing I don't like to much is the bent down tube. the carbon Racer X is setup with V brakes and I think this new frame is going to be lighter than the carbon one when I upgrade to ti bolts.


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

So this new bike has more travel and is lighter? Nice!

You should've got a Titus Fireline Ti frame. You have so many Titus squishy frames already... plus didn't Titus make their name making custom Titanium hardtails back in the day?


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> So this new bike has more travel and is lighter? Nice!
> 
> You should've got a Titus Fireline Ti frame. You have so many Titus squishy frames already... plus didn't Titus make their name making custom Titanium hardtails back in the day?


if I sell the black Racer X thats my next project


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

*DA der 139g*

worked a little more on the derailleur and installed a nobu Ti spring, eliminated the cable adjuster and its now down to 139g


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

You should wipe off the extra grease shimano puts on the spring to save another 2g.


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> You should wipe off the extra grease shimano puts on the spring to save another 2g.


not 2g but .3g


----------



## zburt (Jun 9, 2007)

Any idea were your going to order the ti bolts? A kit or are you going to buy them individually? Just bought a 2007 titus carbon racer x! It as a frame that was never built. Not sure if it has ti-bolts, but will definetly being upgrading them if not! Nice build! love the wheels!


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

zburt said:


> Any idea were your going to order the ti bolts? A kit or are you going to buy them individually? Just bought a 2007 titus carbon racer x! It as a frame that was never built. Not sure if it has ti-bolts, but will definetly being upgrading them if not! Nice build! love the wheels!


I ordered from racebolts,com heres what I ordered, I'll post pics and weights when they get here.

T0855 Titanium Taper Socket Head M8X55 $8.45
BH0845 Titanium Button Head M8X45 $8.45
CSK0612 Titanium Countersunk Screw M6X12 $5.20
NFL08 Titanium Hex Flange Lock Nut M8X1.25 $8.95
WD08 Titanium Drilled Washer M8, OD is 17.5mm, Thickness is 0.9mm $4.95
ANY06 ANY06 $1.49
ANY08 ANY08 $1.55
AW08 Alu 7075 T6 Washer M8 $0.95
ACSK0625 Al 7075 T6 Countersunk Screw M6X25 $1.85


----------



## zburt (Jun 9, 2007)

Thanks for the bolt list! Just bought a titus racer-x carbon! Can't wait to build it up! And love the build looking great!


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

limon, 

What's the hold up? Get'er done.


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

zburt said:


> Thanks for the bolt list! Just bought a titus racer-x carbon! Can't wait to build it up! And love the build looking great!


heres the Ti and Al bolts, for the upper shock pivot you need m8x40 the m8x45 is to long I have to cut mine. the Al nut is lighter but the Ti looks better and I'm still waiting for custom aluminum Horst pivot nuts, custom waiting time = :madman:


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> limon,
> 
> What's the hold up? Get'er done.


there's a sid fork on the way that I want to strip and polish then the Martha mag brakes that I want but not available yet, I'm trying my best but it never ends


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Limon said:


> there's a sid fork on the way that I want to strip and polish then the Martha mag brakes that I want but not available yet, I'm trying my best but it never ends


Polish? Isn't that a lot of work?


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> Polish? Isn't that a lot of work?


it is but it will be lighter and better looking.


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

what are you doing wasting your time on the computer? Polish faster!


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

I think black will look better than gold with the polished front triangle plus is 22g lighter :thumbsup:


----------



## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

I"ve the same one on my nitrous. Use a carbon top cap instead of the EL one if that's what you're already going to do.


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

protocol_droid said:


> I"ve the same one on my nitrous. Use a carbon top cap instead of the EL one if that's what you're already going to do.


either that or one from purely customs


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

damn... I knew I should've went with the extralite... 

Sigh... oh well...

if you don't want that top cap, let me know I'll buy it off of you. I love the pic of the girl on the cap.


----------



## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Is the red cap the Purely Customs one? It looks an awful lot like the Koobi caps that I've been using for the last couple years. Mine with a long aluminum bolt weighs 5g on my scale that only reads on whole grams, so it could be closer to 4.5g, but also closer to 5.5g.


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> damn... I knew I should've went with the extralite...
> 
> Sigh... oh well...
> 
> if you don't want that top cap, let me know I'll buy it off of you. I love the pic of the girl on the cap.


just let me know were to ship it


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

BlownCivic said:


> Is the red cap the Purely Customs one? It looks an awful lot like the Koobi caps that I've been using for the last couple years. Mine with a long aluminum bolt weighs 5g on my scale that only reads on whole grams, so it could be closer to 4.5g, but also closer to 5.5g.


yup the red is the purely customs, I think I got these 5 years ago at interbike


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

tune boltons


----------



## Bender (Jan 12, 2004)

Limon any idea what the 09 Carbon X frame weighs?


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Bender said:


> Limon any idea what the 09 Carbon X frame weighs?


havent weighed one my self but I read somewhere the changes are minimal from 08 to 09, I think the headtube went from regular cups to integrated and different pivot locations for longer travel. the 08 carbon frame is heavier than the 08 aluminum so most likely the same thing for the 09's. are you looking to buy one? 
heres two good links on the racer x carbon
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=484496&highlight=racer+x+carbon
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=497860&highlight=racer+x+carbon


----------



## zburt (Jun 9, 2007)

*Ti-hardware!*

Hey Limon, Again thanks for the ti-bolt list! I did measure all of mine to verify they matched! Read on one site that the carbon x and the aluminum x had slightly different bolt sizes, but with the list you gave me they matched perfect! For future reference I found the same bolts on Toronto Cycles a lot cheaper.


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

zburt said:


> Hey Limon, Again thanks for the ti-bolt list! I did measure all of mine to verify they matched! Read on one site that the carbon x and the aluminum x had slightly different bolt sizes, but with the list you gave me they matched perfect! For future reference I found the same bolts on Toronto Cycles a lot cheaper.


never checked toronto my self good to know, thanks for the tip.


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

*ceramic bearings*

got some enduro ceramic bearings for my bb and it went down to 112.5g from 131g


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

damn... I thought I was anal and meticulous. Looks like I've met my match / maker. 

Nice build so far. When is it doing to be done?


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> damn... I thought I was anal and meticulous. Looks like I've met my match / maker.
> 
> Nice build so far. When is it doing to be done?


not even close I'm thinking about sending the front triangle to rue for some carbon tubes to make it lighter


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Does Titus make a carbon version of the X frame?


----------



## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> Does Titus make a carbon version of the X frame?


yep.....


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

that does not look cheap


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> Does Titus make a carbon version of the X frame?


the Titus carbon X is boxy and heavyer than the aluminum version so I have to do the Limon version


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Limon said:


> the Titus carbon X is boxy and heavyer than the aluminum version so I have to do the Limon version


The carbon version is heavier? Woah. I never knew that.   

I Think you should get a custom made titus fireline instead.

http://www.titusti.com/titus09/bikes/cc_firelineti.php

:thumbsup:


----------



## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

Cheers! said:


> The carbon version is heavier? Woah. I never knew that.
> 
> I Think you should get a custom made titus fireline instead.
> 
> ...


Exogrid of course.


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

*bolts*

heres the custom Al nuts for the Horst pivot and treaded Al sleeve with 2 Ti bolts to replace the steel ones.


----------



## Bender (Jan 12, 2004)

Limon said:


> not even close I'm thinking about sending the front triangle to rue for some carbon tubes to make it lighter


Get a Rue front triangle and report back to us with pictures! I assume that 1100g was only the front triangle but was any hardware included?


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Bender said:


> Get a Rue front triangle and report back to us with pictures! I assume that 1100g was only the front triangle but was any hardware included?


only the BB pivot bearings nothing else, I'm still thinking about the DT carbon shock claimed 165g. can't wait my self to get it back from rue.


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Isn't the fox dampening miles better than the DT swiss shock?


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> Isn't the fox dampening miles better than the DT swiss shock?


I'm trying to find reviews on the DT shock but I do like the propedal a lot. I can get the DT at a very good price. hard decisions


----------



## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

The DT on my nitrous is great. I actually like having the full lockout and on my old blur xc with the rp23 and propedal, once set, I never touched it again...but I always wished it had the lockout.


----------



## Bender (Jan 12, 2004)

protocol_droid said:


> The DT on my nitrous is great. I actually like having the full lockout and on my old blur xc with the rp23 and propedal, once set, I never touched it again...but I always wished it had the lockout.


protocol_droid how much weight did the DT save over the RP3 on your Nitrous?


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

protocol_droid said:


> The DT on my nitrous is great. I actually like having the full lockout and on my old blur xc with the rp23 and propedal, once set, I never touched it again...but I always wished it had the lockout.


you said 100g lighter than rp23, is it really or claimed?


----------



## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

Limon said:


> you said 100g lighter than rp23, is it really or claimed?


well, mine is 6.5x1.5 and was 145 g which saved over 100g vs the rp3 that I had (250 g)


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

protocol_droid said:


> well, mine is 6.5x1.5 and was 145 g which saved over 100g vs the rp3 that I had (250 g)


I guess I'll try both and sell one


----------



## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

My 6.5 x 1.5 RP23 with the aluminum bushings weighs 232g and the DT XR Carbon I replaced the Fox with weighs 158g with the DT bushings. I haven't had the chance to really *ride* it yet. It's been out for a little spin with my son, and feels really plush, but I'll reserve judgement for when I've had the chance to ride it for real.


----------



## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

damn, my rp3 is heavier by a bit.


----------



## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

protocol_droid said:


> damn, my rp3 is heavier by a bit.


Remove the bit.


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

*Sid WC*

Sid WC w/200mm steerer tube


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

more weight saved the frame now sits at 2135g with a 184.7g DT carbon shock, the DA rear der. is now 136g with Fibre-Lyte pulleys, 30.9 x 350mm new ultimate carbon seatpost at 134g and this seatpost clamp.


----------



## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

So what made you choose the sid over the magura or maitou?

This has been a been a very fun build to watch, cant wait to see it when its finished


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Flystagg said:


> So what made you choose the sid over the magura or maitou?
> 
> This has been a been a very fun build to watch, cant wait to see it when its finished


I went with the sid because it looks better to me than a manitou and the magura double arch is not my thing, on the performance side you can't go wrong with a rockshox.


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

build faster!


----------



## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

Did you get that clamp off ebay, I just got a similar one with red inlays.. thats a great weight for it.. mines in the mail...


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

nikoli8 said:


> Did you get that clamp off ebay, I just got a similar one with red inlays.. thats a great weight for it.. mines in the mail...


yup Ebay, I replaced the bolt with an Aluminum one.


----------



## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

Do you find aluminum safe..


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> build faster!


I'm trying my best here  heres what It looks like to be the final list for now.
frame X 2135g
fork Sid WC 1469
headset Extralite 55.7
BB american classic ti spindle actiontec cups ceramic bearings 112.5
brakes marta mag need tuning (541g after tuning w/Al rotors, ti bolts, Al bolts, older marta rear caliper and cut hoses to lenght)
cables aligator/dupont?
cassette aluminum 144
chain kmc 222
cranks powerarms 321
bolts 10
ring bolts 7
s ring 30T Al 19
b ring 42T sugino shaved 49
f der duraace 80.4
r der duraace 136
grips foam 13
bar TLO ?
qrs tune 23
seatclamp carbon 7
seat becker 64
seatpost new ultimate carbon 30.9 134
shifters xtr 199
stem extralite 86
wheelset extralite-pillar 1422's-alex scandium 1079
tires furious fred 406 and 411
tubes 185 for now
rim strips rox 4
pedals 4Ti 170


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

nikoli8 said:


> Do you find aluminum safe..


it should be, will see after first ride


----------



## Bender (Jan 12, 2004)

Limon I thought the frame was 2.14 KG before you started modding it?


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Bender said:


> Limon I thought the frame was 2.14 KG before you started modding it?


the parktools hanging scale is not very good, every time it tells me something different on smaller stuff I think is only good for complete bikes.
stock frame weight for the X is 5lbs even


----------



## Cranked (Jun 1, 2006)

Are you really sending the front triangle to Rue for the carbon treatment?


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cranked said:


> Are you really sending the front triangle to Rue for the carbon treatment?


yup just waiting for him to give me the ok to ship it


----------



## Bender (Jan 12, 2004)

Limon said:


> yup just waiting for him to give me the ok to ship it


You are crazy


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Bender said:


> You are crazy


not the first time I hear that


----------



## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

*How Much Loss*

What king of weight will that treatment save...?

When do you think you will finnish?


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

nikoli8 said:


> What king of weight will that treatment save...?
> 
> When do you think you will finnish?


I hope it saves at least 100g but it might be a while until he can work on it so I'm going to put it together and ride it for now.


----------



## thue (Nov 1, 2008)

What is the target weight on this bike?


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

thue said:


> What is the target weight on this bike?


I don't really have a target weight, I'm going for lightest but still rideable.


----------



## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

just to say that I'm impressed with the attention to detail on this build & like everyone else cant wait to see it done :thumbsup:


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

*martas*

finally worked on the brakes and heres the weights with cut hoses and some more pics


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

*almost there*

Ok I need to ride this thing the weather is to nice to have it in pieces.
I still need to install cables and tune it up but heres some pics.


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Build faster and go riding!


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> Build faster and go riding!


it should be ready today, cant wait


----------



## JaLove (Dec 24, 2006)

Limon said:


> found this older xtr front der at 106g, 15g lighter than the newer one :thumbsup:


Man, they were so much lighter back in the day. Nice bike!


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

JaLove said:


> Man, they were so much lighter back in the day. Nice bike!


thanks


----------



## waldojr (Nov 23, 2006)

Oh my .. Looking awesome!!


----------



## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Any Final pics..*

Any final pics............
Tried the Aluminum seat bolt for my clamp.. working ok.. also took some risk in other areas....with aluminum...

Just saw that New Merida frame... Yummy, let's hope it's for real....

Also got the Broken Nobu spring trimmed and ready to try and re-install.. thanks for the advice..


----------



## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

so we done yet? Or are we missing the beautiful weather fretting over the last thread to cut off the Ti bolts to save the last .00001 gram? 



Time now is to ride, not tinker. With that said the Lynskey hasn't seen much action. That EC90 setback seatpost I have is $hit. The threaded insert debonded from the carbon top clamp. I fixed that with Hysol 934A, then that held the 100 inch-lbs (max torque as spec by Easton). But the clamp would slip and cause the saddle to tilt forward and backwards depending on how you sat on it. POS. I have a Thomson Masterpiece in the mail in transit with a Ti bolt kit from Toronto Cycles. Enough of this made in mexico, made in taiwan, made in china crap. This thomson masterpiece better be magic, because I have very very high expectations of it.


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

yup finished, all I have to do is ride it now  I will post pics tomorrow. I also wonder what kinda problems I'll encounter in the trail with all this super light parts. I guess only one way to find out ride this biatch hard.


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

nikoli8 said:


> Any final pics............
> Tried the Aluminum seat bolt for my clamp.. working ok.. also took some risk in other areas....with aluminum...
> 
> Just saw that New Merida frame... Yummy, let's hope it's for real....
> ...


have you posted your bike here if you don't mind asking? I would like to check it out.


----------



## zburt (Jun 9, 2007)

Final weight?


----------



## smoen81 (Aug 28, 2008)

Limon said:


> yup finished, all I have to do is ride it now  I will post pics tomorrow. I also wonder what kinda problems I'll encounter in the trail with all this super light parts. I guess only one way to find out ride this biatch hard.


final pics?


----------



## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

sorry for the wait, heres some quick pics and final weights
frame X 2129g
fork Sid WC 1448
headset Extralite 55.7
BB american classic ti spindle actiontec cups ceramic bearings 112.5
brakes marta mag need tuning (541g after tuning w/Al rotors, ti bolts, Al bolts, older marta rear caliper and cut hoses to lenght)
cables aligator/dupont? shimano for now 70
cassette aluminum 144
chain kmc 222
cranks powerarms 321
bolts 10
ring bolts 7
s ring 30T Al 19
b ring 42T sugino shaved 49
f der went back to XTR 107
r der duraace 136
grips foam 13
bar TLO ? easton for now 99
qrs tune 23
seatclamp carbon 7
seat becker 64
seatpost new ultimate carbon 30.9 134
shifters xtr 199
stem extralite 86
wheelset extralite-pillar 1422's-alex scandium 1079
tires furious fred 406 and 411
tubes 185 for now
rim strips rox 4
pedals 4Ti 170

8251g but the hanging scale tells me 8280g without pedals :madman: is my hanging scale crazy? can someone explain? am I missing something?


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

zip ties and C clips? :skep: and grease/anti-seize


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

rockyuphill said:


> zip ties and C clips? :skep: and grease/anti-seize


200g for zip ties and C clips? :skep: and grease/anti-seize and you forgot air in the tubes


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

maybe headset spacers too??


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

jordanrosenbach3 said:


> maybe headset spacers too??


I did forget those too, I wanna say about 30g


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

your only 29g different between the two weights, i dont know where you get 200g? btw, very nice build so far, i like it a lot


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Limon said:


> 200g for zip ties and C clips? :skep: and grease/anti-seize and you forgot air in the tubes


I weighed a set of wheels empty to full of air and got 36gms difference. Air ain't that light.

Are all your spreadsheet weights measured values, or spec values?


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

jordanrosenbach3 said:


> your only 29g different between the two weights, i dont know where you get 200g? btw, very nice build so far, i like it a lot


the 8280g weight on the hanging scale doesn't include the 170g for pedals, I weighed the bike without pedals.


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

rockyuphill said:


> I weighed a set of wheels empty to full of air and got 36gms difference. Air ain't that light.
> 
> Are all your spreadsheet weights measured values, or spec values?


all my weights are by me on my scale.


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## lucero (Nov 21, 2006)

No Nokons?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Nokons are actually heavier than standard Shimano SP41 housing.


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

I have some aligator and dupont cables for it I just have to install them one of this days.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Try doing some spot assembly measurements, like the assembled wheels, and the frame without the wheels to see where the deviation might be.


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## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

what size bolt did you use for your seat clamp...


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

nikoli8 said:


> what size bolt did you use for your seat clamp...


it's a 5mm bolt, are you going with an aluminum bolt?


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## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

The real question is, how does it ride?


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

I've been following this build in the shadows and am pleased by what I see you have accomplished. Two questions just out of curiosity: why did you not go with a white sid and around how much did you drop for this piece of work?


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Two questions just out of curiosity: why did you not go with a white sid and around how much did you drop for this piece of work?

I didn't care about the color at first because the idea was to polish the fork but that sounds like to much work so it's staying blue for now. about putting a price tag on this thing I didn't keep track, I would like to know my self?

The real question is, how does it ride?

the X frame feels very stiff no flex at all, just like the half pound heavier Racer X that it's replacing and the wheels feel super fast :thumbsup: I'm not going to lie to you they're not the stiffest wheels out there but I need more time riding them to see if I like that or not. overall I'm very very happy with the setup and I can't stop  every time I ride it.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

Limon said:


> The real question is, how does it ride? overall I'm very very happy with the setup and I can't stop  every time I ride it.


Well, that's the most important thing is it not? Congratulations on an awesome build. I'm glad you like it.


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## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

Yep going with aluminum, use aluminum on my other set up.. and it seems fine... are you having problems? my clamp size is 31.8.. so maybe a little lighter than yours... maybe..


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

nikoli8 said:


> Yep going with aluminum, use aluminum on my other set up.. and it seems fine... are you having problems? my clamp size is 31.8.. so maybe a little lighter than yours... maybe..


only when the seattube wall on the frame is thick I don't use aluminum bolts because more torque is needed for the seatpost not to move around.
let us know whats the weight for the 31.8 with the Al bolt


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## Daffunda (Aug 26, 2005)

How much do you weigh? I would have to say if you're over 150lb, then you're screwed with that weight weenie spec. (esp wheelset)


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Daffunda said:


> How much do you weigh? I would have to say if you're over 150lb, then you're screwed with that weight weenie spec. (esp wheelset)


I'm curious do you speak from experience? Have you ridden the exact wheel configuration? If so Are you 151 lbs heavy?


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

rockyuphill said:


> Try doing some spot assembly measurements, like the assembled wheels, and the frame without the wheels to see where the deviation might be.


here's the weight for the TLO bar and a more accurate weight for the complete bike.
8134.4g no pedals


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

Daffunda said:


> How much do you weigh? I would have to say if you're over 150lb, then you're screwed with that weight weenie spec. (esp wheelset)


180 and no problems yet  :thumbsup:


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

started to install the 28t ring but don't have 5 single ring bolts :madman:


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

summer is for riding. Winter is for upgrades and modding. Pedal faster!


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

been great following this build Limon. 

i'm worried about that crankset, not sure what will break first the spider or the outer ring - crank up those chainring bolts nice & tight Limon + don't forget the red locite!

riding all year round in SoCal, if anything we get too much nice weather here - i have to get started before 6am to avoid heatstroke.


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## Limon (Jan 26, 2004)

I promise cheers no more modding for now :smilewinkgrin:

been great following this build Limon.

*thanks
*
i'm worried about that crankset, not sure what will break first the spider or the outer ring - crank up those chainring bolts nice & tight Limon + don't forget the red locite!

*well lets hope nothing breaks, eating dirt is no fun* :nono:


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## FortOrdDirt (Apr 7, 2008)

That looks so good:thumbsup: I like the curves, and even more so the weight


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