# Plant-based diet thoughts



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Who's doing it and how long now?

Why did you do it and what has it done for you?

Any advice?


So I'm over 50 now and my dad had all cholesterol and blood pressure problems since he was 40. I'm on zero pills because of biking. But I do ride almost every day. But the feeling awesome days are getting less and less so I want to eat better.

I don't eat too much sweets anymore but I do have meat and dairy almost every day. My wife is an amazing cook but she's crushing us with the cuisine she's not as active as me.

So what should I know, read, watch?


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## 73cuda (Jul 23, 2007)

my $.02 ....3 books I would recommend...Eat to Live by Joel Fuhrman,30 Day Heart Tune-up by Steven Masley,and Wheat Belly by William Davis . G-Bombs is a phrase from Joel Fuhrman :Greens, Berrries,Onions,Mushrooms,Beans,Seeds . My Dad had his chest cracked open,..seeing that firsthand sure pushed me to eat healthier.


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## ddoh (Jan 11, 2017)

"But I do ride almost every day. But the feeling awesome days are getting less and less"

As you get older, rest days become more important,


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

43 here,

Truth is you won't know until you try it. Genetics play a big role, some people do great on plant based some do not. if you do go vegan, it's a lot of work to stay on top of what you need every day, you need to cook a lot and make sure you are eating varied diet and supplementing with vitamins. 

It's a lifestyle, talk to any healthy vegan, their days revolve around food. It can work for the right personality but it's all consuming. 

Side note I stopped drinking beer and feel 100% better, was drinking about 2 Craft beers per day. Sometimes more or less. Just that change has netted huge benefits. More energy, very very few stomach issues (many before), less pain (inflammation) better recovery, lost 15 lbs, sleep better. Honestly did not expect to feel much different, it's biggest change I've felt in years! Sad but true. Took about 6 weeks to feel difference. 

Meat everyday is too much, dairy should be limited. Try only hard cheese and yogurt, cut other dairy. 

I'd suggest to eat vegan 2 days a week and stop drinking beer. See how you feel. It's amazing the fog I feel the next day if I have an IPA now. Sad but true. 

Btw, many vegan and vegetarian family members so I do have lots of knowledge about both vegan and vegetarian diets.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Check out the two vegetarian threads in nutrition. I've been a pescatarian for 25 years so hard for me to comment on what it has done for me. I have more recently cut out soft drinks and largely processed foods, lost 25 lbs or so, weigh less now than when I graduated college.

Seems like there is more and more evidence of vegetables being the key to good health and long life.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Anecdotal but relevant I think. The less meat that I ingest, the better I feel. I do eat fish and eggs but have eliminated red meat entirely from my diet. Reduced processed foods to almost zero. Have also completely eliminated refined sugar from my diet which has really helped eliminate the sluggish feeling. No soda, no candy, no sweets. No nothing. That I think has been the largest contribution to weight loss and feeling better.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

ddoh said:


> "But I do ride almost every day. But the feeling awesome days are getting less and less"
> 
> As you get older, rest days become more important,


I got you. Most of the riding days are pretty easy.

Putt, putt around... on the ebike...


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

seamarsh said:


> 43 here,
> 
> Truth is you won't know until you try it. Genetics play a big role, some people do great on plant based some do not. if you do go vegan, it's a lot of work to stay on top of what you need every day, you need to cook a lot and make sure you are eating varied diet and supplementing with vitamins.
> 
> ...


Right on. Thank you for the intel. Yeah, I have a deep beer background but I can cut back on that. Maybe 2 pints a week and I'll be very happy. I think I'd rather hang on to that than ice cream.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

life behind bars said:


> Anecdotal but relevant I think. The less meat that I ingest, the better I feel. I do eat fish and eggs but have eliminated red meat entirely from my diet. Reduced processed foods to almost zero. Have also completely eliminated refined sugar from my diet which has really helped eliminate the sluggish feeling. No soda, no candy, no sweets. No nothing. That I think has been the largest contribution to weight loss and feeling better.


Yeah, I've been cutting back on sweets and I feel better for sure. I'll cut back on meat this week and really take a look. I'll get all my checkups done this week too.

Anecdotal is cool personal experience. It's us listening to our bodies.


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## shredchic (Jun 18, 2007)

seamarsh said:


> 43 here,
> talk to any healthy vegan, their days revolve around food. It can work for the right personality but it's all consuming.


Vegan for 4+ years, vegetarian before that and this does not square at all with my personal experience! For the most part my diet is pretty simple, easy and low maintenance. I have other things that I focus on in life. There is way less mess to cook up veggies and legumes than meat. For sure a few restaurants can't get their act together and offer one good vegan option. Even in Santa Cruz, CA. But that seems to be less and less the case the more I travel around, and there are plenty of new restaurant options popping up here and there. It is not all-consuming, lol.

If you care about your health at all, vegan or omnivore, paying attention to what you eat, researching at least a little bit, and doing a tiny bit of meal planning can help. Perhaps vegans seem to be obsessed, but that's largely because we've been told for years that we can be deficient in all sorts of things. But in reality dietary deficiencies are no more prevalent in vegans than in meat eaters as a percentage of the total of each. Don't assume that just because you eat meat, you don't need to put time into your nutrition and health. You should be putting in more time - heart disease, cancer, type 2 diabetes are more prevalent amongst meat eaters. I'd rather take a vitamin B12 supplement than be faced with that.


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## TheBaldBlur (Jan 13, 2014)

I'm not going to weigh in on the vegetarian issue _directly_, but I highly recommend reading (at least the background science and your own type chapter) Eat Right for Your Blood Type by Dr. Peter D'Adamo. I was massively skeptical that blood type influenced what kinds of foods work better / worse for you, but after altering what I eat based on my own blood type, I did notice a pretty dramatic difference in performance both physically and mentally. I've loaned my copy of the book to friends and without fail all have reported similar results.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

Vegetarian since 18; vegan the last 3 years. When I was 50, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I endured 3 years of aggressive treatment The turning point to give up all dairy and eat strictly plant based, came as a result of the treatments.. For those folks who think that cancer treatments make you lose weight... it's doesn't.

https://consumer.healthday.com/vita...more-prone-to-obesity-study-finds-713771.html

Although I continued to eat vegetarian and mtb during my treatments , the toll on my body just couldn't keep up. I was fatigued all the time, my brain was fuzzy, and my joints hurt.

I began educating myself about switching to a plant based diet

Vegans/vegetarians have lower risk of cancer: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23169929

Vegan proteins may reduce risk of cancer, obesity, cardiovascular disease: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10687887

Vegan diet leads to lower risk of cancer and cardiovascular disease: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10943644

Meat Consumption and Cancer Risk Cancer Resources | The Physicians Committee

Red meat and colon cancer http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558046

Dairy product, saturated fatty acid, and calcium intake and prostate cancer (PMID: 18398033) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18398033&#8230;

Acne, dairy and cancer (PMID: 20046583) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...med_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2

Hormones in milk can be dangerous By Corydon Ireland Hormones in milk can be dangerous | Harvard Gazette

Milk consumption: aggravating factor of acne and promoter of chronic diseases of Western societies http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19243483

Study finds unsafe mercury levels in 84 percent of all fish Study finds unsafe mercury levels in 84 percent of all fish - CBS News

I also became vegan for environmental reasons 




My transition from vegetarian to vegan was easier than I expected. I had just started a new fitness regime (crossfit) and my body and mind were ready for a change. My husband eats plant based 6 days a week and one day has fish or chicken

Today I have no cholesterol, I've lost weight (and gained muscle), my resent bone density is better than my baseline from 3 years ago, I feel energetic, I'm training to run a marathon and 8 years cancer free.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

Happy Belated Hump day 

6 SCIENTIFIC REASONS VEGAN MEN DO IT BETTER



> 1. THEIR EQUIPMENT WORKS BETTER (LESS ERECTYLE DISFUNCTION)
> 
> Ditch the Viagra and extended-hour condoms and go vegan instead. Doctors agree: The best way to prevent artery blockages, improve heart health, and lower blood pressure is to eat a diet high in fiber, including fruits, vegetables, and whole grains. These foods help clear your arteries and get your blood flowing to, well, the important parts.
> 
> ...





> 2. THEY'RE MORE FERTILE.
> 
> Want good-quality sperm? Researchers at the Cleveland Clinic say it's simple: Eat your fruits and veggies, especially tomatoes, which are loaded with sperm-friendly lycopene.
> 
> ...





> 3. THEY TASTE BETTER.
> 
> Meat and dairy products are distasteful in more ways than one, women insist. Former porn star Annie Sprinkle says vegetarians taste best. Eating fruit and drinking fruit juice a few hours before sex is thought to improve the taste, while cigarettes, alcohol, meat, dairy products, and deep-fried foods make semen less palatable.
> 
> The chlorophyll in foods like celery and parsley also can make semen sweeter. By contrast, red meat is known to make semen taste salty. A word of warning to vegetarian men though: veggies in the cabbage family are high in sulfur and this can make semen taste bad.





> 4. AND SMELL BETTER.
> 
> In 2006, researchers at Charles University in the Czech Republic decided to see how diet affected one's body odor. They had men eat meat diet or a vegetarian diet for two weeks and then took odor samples from their armpits. Then they had the men switch their diets and took samples again. The odor samples were given to women who rated them on level of pleasantness (there is one study I'm glad I didn't partake in!). The women consistently found that the vegetarian men's smell was "more attractive".
> 
> Why do vegetarians smell better than meat eaters? One possible reason is because red meat causes toxins to be released into the bloodstream and large intestines, which then make it out through our pores. Another reason is because of the bacteria on our skin. The bacteria love to consume proteins and fats - things are plentiful in meat. So, the bacteria thrive on meat eaters and their waste produces a vile smell.





> 5. THEY ALSO LAST LONGER.
> 
> There is no shortage of testimonies from vegetarians saying how much energy they have on their diet. Well, this is actually backed by science too. One study had men peddle on a stationary bicycle until their muscles failed. The men on a high meat diet lasted only 57 minutes. Men on a meat and veggie diet lasted 114 minutes, while men on a vegetarian diet lasted a whooping 167 minutes.
> 
> Why did vegetarians last so much longer? Could it be, as Heidi VanPelt-Belle of the Huntington Collage of Health Sciences explains, because vegetables are assimilated into energy by the body faster? This gives vegetarians more energy in and out of bed. Since many people ditch processed foods in their transition to a vegetarian diet, this would also give them more energy than the typical meat eater.





> 6. THEY ARE MORE WILLING.
> 
> [Okay, there is a lot of debate about this one, probably because it is difficult to scientifically measure sexual desire. However, there is evidence that the vegetarian diet can increase libido. One study looked at the effect of soy isoflavones on red colobus monkeys. The monkeys had their diet switched to include soy isoflavones. Low and behold! They suddenly started spending less time on grooming and more time copulating. The vegetarian diet is also linked to better mood and mental health and mental health is certainly important for a healthy libido.
> 
> ...


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Ok, pretty gnarly tmi hump day info there. Geez.

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm eating healthy for now and discovering cool food.

There is a new place by my house called Veggie Grill. Really amazing food. Sadly, all over $10.









I'm discovering my true love for mangoes. This may be my ticket to a healthy diet since I can pretty much put it on any of my meals.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

I became vegan in fall of 2011 after being diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes. My mother had been a diabetic for 20-30 years and was one of those "I will eat want I want to eat" persons and just take the medicine. She suffered from diabetic neuropathy and at one time was taking morphine three times a day for the pain along numerous other medications. She also had to have her mirtal valve replaced and when they opened up her heart 80% of it was blocked by calcium deposits. Then about four years later she had a stoke and lost her ability to speak or read. She suffered another two years before passing away Easter of 2016.

I say all of this because at first was trying the American Diabetes Association diet and taking Metformin following my doctors orders to "treat" the diabetes. Then after about six months I went with my wife to her doctor on one of her visits and my wife mentioned my diabetes to her. Her doctor told us of two key books that have changed my life forever. The first one was *Dr. Neal Barnard's Program for Reversing Diabetes* and the second was *The China Study: The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted and the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss, and Long-Term Health by T. Collin Campbell*. The first was about how a plant based diet could actually reverse diabetes and the second one showed how what we eat affects other areas of our health.

After reading those books I became vegan and have since been off diabetic medications now for almost six years. Being vegan has opened my world to a host of new and wonderful foods that I would have never tried before becoming vegan.

It does have it's challenges like visiting relatives and friends for dinner invites, but I don't expect them to change and I have to take responsibility for my health. I usually will bring my own food over for occasions like this. Sometimes they take it as a challenge to try something different.

I have since seen movies about the meat and dairy industry that would make it very hard to go back to eating those things. We don't need them to live happy healthy full lives. 
Take a look at this vegan pizza and see if it doesn't make your mouth water.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

^^ Good luck making a change in your diet fc

Visit the vegan passion and recipe threads in the nutrition forum for ideas. According to research On average, it takes more than 2 months before a new behavior becomes automatic - 66 days to be exact.

In other words, if you want to set your expectations appropriately, the truth is that it will probably take you anywhere from two months to eight months to build a new behavior into your life - not 21 days (according to pop culture)

sauce: How Long Does it Actually Take to Form a New Habit? Backed by Science.


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## ridetheridge (Mar 7, 2009)

The documentary "Forks over Knives" is a must watch for anyone wanting to improve their health through a plant based diet.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

cyclelicious said:


> ...6 SCIENTIFIC REASONS VEGAN MEN DO IT BETTER
> 
> ...3. THEY TASTE BETTER.......


I guess if you're vegan you don't swallow?


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Im 42, have been on a plant based diet mostly for 3 months. I used to powerlift, and still lift heavy. But I chose this diet for health and environmental reasons. I used to eat 2-3lbs of meat a day. Now I take an EAA supplement called humanpro and eat beans, rice and veggies mostly, since I am taking essential amino acids. I don't worry about protein or combinating foods. I haven't lost any muscle with this diet.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Vegetarian for over thirty years, if not for milk in my coffee and cheese on my pizza, I'd be vegan. 

It's really not a big deal, there are only a few things I don't​ eat: beef, fowl, fish. The list of what I do eat is so much longer 

Does being vegetarian improve your health?

Not by itself, as anyone can be unhealthy; diet does not make the person.

I'm 6'/195#, strong and fit, no lightweight, but my fitness has more to do with good genetics and exercise than diet.

As one poster falsely suggested, vegans/vegetarians DO NOT spend a significant​ amount of time thinking about food.

I spend very little time thinking about food, I grocery shop and eat out just like "normal people", we (my wife is also vegetarian) have our favorites, but other than skipping fast food and steak houses, you'd never know I wasn't a carnivore.

Just keep in mind that your body doesn't know or care about the source of food stuff. You can eat garbage food that is vegan. 

Eat well in moderation, avoid smoking, and engage in regular exercise.

As to the OPs reason for posting: "having fewer awesome days".

Say hello to old age, you are gonna be good friends


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## OlMarin (Oct 22, 2016)

I'm type 1 brittle diabetic. For me a 30/30/30 diet works the best with reduced episodes of hypoglycemia. What it means is 30% protein, carb and fat. That gives me 10% to play with. I love food and love cooking. I don't love being hemmed in to a real strict diet. I must admit, my appetite for meat has reduced, so I'm around 20% protein and 20% fat. I don't know why, but lately that's what tastes good. Lotsa complex carbs.
BTW my cholesterol and BP are no problem without any meds.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

Lone Rager said:


> I guess if you're vegan you don't swallow?


Vegans have to get their protein somewhere


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Have you ever noticed how curious meat eaters are about vegetarian diets? I don't advertise or prosletize​, yet when I'm "found out" I'm constantly amazed at the questions I receive. 

Honestly, I could care less what other people eat, but damn if meat eaters aren't overly curious about my diet!

You can be healthy eating meat, but the same rules apply to vegans as well as meat eaters: eat smart, eat in moderation, don't smoke, and exercise regularly.


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## OlMarin (Oct 22, 2016)

I dated a vegetarian girl for awhile. It was fun coming up with new recipes to cook for her. I had no problem with what I cooked up. Actually enjoyed it. And believe me, being willing to accommodate her had it's, um, rewards (think of the aforementioned protein).
If she didn't drink so much I might have married her. I'd only been sober 2 years at that time. I'm sure the wagon woulda been fallen off had I stayed with her.


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## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

ridetheridge said:


> The documentary "Forks over Knives" is a must watch for anyone wanting to improve their health through a plant based diet.


Let me echo this, I was going to mention this movie, as it says it very well.

I consider myself a fairly healthy eater, but my wife and I are prone to the occasional lapse in good habits, and the demon sugar is taking its toll. We both gave up smoking in the last few years too, and those cravings never quite go away. I am in my early 60s, and she is 48, and we both feel like a reset.
She discovered a regimen called the Whole 30, which is not a weight loss program, but rather a reset button on your eating habits. The aim is to cut out anything that can cause inflammation, and for 30 days you cut out everything except untainted meat, vegetables and some fruits. After 30 days your body should have cleaned itself out and you can start to reintroduce certain things to see how they affect you, and if adversely, cut them out for good. The claim is that, if adhered to, the program can cut out a great deal of inflammation, promote a healthy gut, improve brain function, mitigate joint pain, etc etc. 
We are starting this in a couple of days, and I will let you know how it goes! The list of no-nos for the 30 days is impressive! If I manage I shall be impressed with myself...


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

cyclelicious said:


> Vegans have to get their protein somewhere


With all due seriousness, where do vegans source enough protein?


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

life behind bars said:


> With all due seriousness, where do vegans source enough protein?


The question is is were do you get your fiber? Most Americans eat more two times or more the amount of protein necessary but eat less than half of the fiber necessary. We get it from the same places the animals that you are eating do, plants. Plants contain all the necessary building blocks to make protein. 
As a side note I recently found out that Human breast milk (which has been proven to be the best thing to feed a baby) contains the least amount of protein of *all* mammals including rats, dogs , cats, you name it, every one. 
Here is some reading to do if you really want to know more about protein.
How Can I Get Enough Protein? The Protein Myth | The Physicians Committee


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

One thing a lot of people do not understand about protein is that your body cannot store it. So all those Americans that eat two or more times the protein than what their bodies need just pass the extra protein, which strains the kidneys as noted in hh's article link. I think we've all see the coworker munching away at a protein bar or downing a protein drink because they think they are being healthy. The best time to consume protein is within about 30 minutes after a workout. This puts the protein to use rebuilding muscle. 

I'm a little surprised that article pushed eating carbs without spelling out that they need to be high quality carbs and not the junk carbs so many Americans consume.


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## huckleberry hound (Feb 27, 2015)

chazpat said:


> One thing a lot of people do not understand about protein is that your body cannot store it. So all those Americans that eat two or more times the protein than what their bodies need just pass the extra protein, which strains the kidneys as noted in hh's article link. I think we've all see the coworker munching away at a protein bar or downing a protein drink because they think they are being healthy. The best time to consume protein is within about 30 minutes after a workout. This puts the protein to use rebuilding muscle.
> 
> I'm a little surprised that article pushed eating carbs without spelling out that they need to be high quality carbs and not the junk carbs so many Americans consume.


It did spell that out.


> Studies show that the healthiest diet is one that is high in carbohydrate, low in fat, and adequate in protein. Increased intake of *whole grains, fruits, and vegetables* is recommended for weight control and preventing diseases such as cancer3 and heart disease.4 High-carbohydrate, low-fat, moderate- protein diets are also recommended for optimal athletic performance.5


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

Here are facts about protein:

All proteins are built from compounds called amino acids.

There are 20 amino acids that are necessary for the growth and function of mammals, including humans.

Of these, 10 can be made within our bodies, from other compounds.

These are known as nonessential amino acids as it's not essential to consume them in our diet.

The remaining 10 cannot be made within our bodies.

These are called essential amino acids since we - and all other mammals - have to eat them 'ready-made'.

These essential amino acids are all made by plants (as well as by bacteria).

What this means is that every protein found in the bodies of lions, whales, dogs, rats, horses and us humans, contains amino acids that were ultimately derived from plants.

Without plants there would be no proteins - since all proteins are built from a mixture of essential and nonessential amino acids - and therefore no animals, including humans.

So when someone asks you "Where do you get your protein?"" you can answer:
'Straight from the source - plants!"

there's tons of resources: Vegan & Vegetarian Nutrition - Toronto Vegetarian Association


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

huckleberry hound said:


> It did spell that out.


True, but I'm not sure a lot of people will realize it is still talking about carbs in that second sentence, especially in reference to fruits and vegetables. I think a lot of people think of carbs as any bread, donuts, bagels, etc.; highly processed foods. That's where the whole "lose weight by cutting carbs" trend of a few years ago really failed.

That cartoon says a lot, Cyclelicious!


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## TheBaldBlur (Jan 13, 2014)

I said I'm not taking sides, and I'm not, just thought this was funny and the kind of thing that would drive my near-vegetarian wife to tears


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## DirtnDogs (Dec 11, 2014)

I was a vegetarian for 30 years, started eating meat again about 4 years ago. I became a vegetarian when I was around 19 because I was putting myself through college and couldn't afford meat. I also didn't like the idea of spending my own money to support factory farms, industrial meat, etc. for both health and ethical reasons.

I was not a junk food vegetarian, was always concerned about health, ate veggies and didn't eat a lot of 'bad' processed food compared to most Americans. But I did eat whole wheat bread, whole wheat pasta, brown rice, quinoa, etc. and as I got older I became less tolerant of these carbs. As I gradually cut them out of my diet I had to replace the calories with something and didn't want to overdo the dairy so I finally decided I needed to try to eat meat again. I also realized I was missing out on essential fats and the activators needed to be able to absorb them. The problem with vegetarian and more so vegan diets is not the grams of protein consumed but rather the lack of healthy fats the enzymes you need to be able to absorb the proteins, fats and other nutrients.

I did end up with an autoimmune condition, likely as a result of the vegetarian diet and consumption of processed carbs, even the 'healthy' whole wheat kind and even though it was a 'reasonable' amount of carbs. I've cut way back on carbs, nothing processed, just sweet potatoes and white rice and in vary limited quantities. I still eat loads of veggies, even more than I ate before and I still eat dairy but now meat takes the place of some of the dairy. I've made a big increase in healthy fats, I was having a low fat diet as a vegetarian. Now I have full fat dairy, raw milk when I can get it, the cuts of meat with the most fat, avocados, butter, coconut oil, etc.

My cholesterol was always good but after a year of this, HDL got even better and triglycerides had the biggest improvement. LDL went down a bit but it was already low and has nowhere to go. It's arguable that cholesterol markers are very important anyway. I've always had low blood pressure and it was not affected. My B12 markers were below normal on the veg diet and went into the normal range after I brought the meat back. Though they didn't go up very dramatically, this is something that can be hard to bring back.

Weight and muscle got better, for the first time in my life I feel full. There is no deprivation eating this way. I don't eat sugar and little processed food and don't miss it.

I help people with weight loss for a living and I try very hard to steer them away from vegan diets. Why limit yourself with a restrictive, deprivation style diet that is lacking in key fats and nutrients? The main thing I see with people trying to force the vegan issue is yo-yo dieting. They manage the diet for 3 months or so and then can't do it anymore and go back to even worse eating habits and 6 months later they're back in my office, worse off than before. You can still eat loads of plants, eat ALL the plants, but keep a bit of healthy meats, fish, eggs, etc. in. 'The Vegetarian Myth' by Lierre Keith is a powerful example of the possible serious health problems from a vegan diet.

These days it's so much easier to get healthy, ethically raised and harvested meats. Grass fed beef, wild caught salmon, pastured eggs and pork. I even eat liver once a week because it's so much cheaper and so nutrient dense, tastes way better than muscle meat to me, so rich and creamy. Sardines are cheap too if salmon is too spendy. Get food directly from farmers or Farmer's Markets, go see the farms and the conditions the animals are living in, ask what they're eating. You are what you eat AND you are what what you eat eats. I get raw milk and eggs from a friend raising those animals more like pets than livestock. The animals are happy and the food is SO much tastier and healthier.

Most importantly of all, figure out what works for YOU. We're all different, some people can tolerate vegan diets, most cannot. Some people don't tolerate dairy or even eggs. Experiment with what you like and what makes you feel good, just make sure the food is healthy and whole and raised well.

'Forks Over Knives' has some truth to it as far as processed/industrialized/factory farm food vs whole foods go but this movie was put out by vegan activists with an agenda of getting people to stop eating meat, health is a secondary concern. Something to bear in mind as you watch.

Weston A. Price's book, 'Nutrition and Physical Degeneration' is a great place to start, a fascinating book with some amazing photos. Sally Fallon has a great YouTube lecture with slides of photos from the book.






But don't just take my word for it, do some research and experimenting for yourself. Lots of voices out there, you have to do the work and find the ones that make sense to you and experiment to see what works for you. And what works for you now, might not work for you in a year or 3.


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## OlMarin (Oct 22, 2016)

I'm not trying to take sides. Everybody needs to find out what's right for them.
But isn't vegetarian an Indian word for lousy hunter?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

^ That's even too old for the 50+ joke thread!

I'm pretty sure I'll never be accused of being a vegetarian but over the last few years I've been putting bigger piles of veggies and smaller ones of meat on my plate and feel healthier for it. Grandma was right again.


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## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

I've never been much of a carnivore, and it is strange for me to be encouraged to eat plenty of meat in this Whole30 regimen. We'll see how it works out, but I am pretty sure I shall not continue eating much meat after the thing is done.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

OlMarin said:


> I'm not trying to take sides. Everybody needs to find out what's right for them.
> But isn't vegetarian an Indian word for lousy hunter?


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## OlMarin (Oct 22, 2016)

J.B. Weld said:


> ^ That's even too old for the 50+ joke thread!
> 
> I'm pretty sure I'll never be accused of being a vegetarian but over the last few years I've been putting bigger piles of veggies and smaller ones of meat on my plate and feel healthier for it. Grandma was right again.


I find myself eating more veggies over the last few years myself. It's what my body seems to want. Maybe it is age related? After all I'm old enough to get away with the lousy hunter joke.


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## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

Personally, I like my plant based diet passed first through cows, pigs, lambs, and chickens.

Sorry, a wise remark!

I think that the secret to diet is a simple one that recognizes our omnivorous heritage. That means plants and animals in a balanced manner. I don't eat a lot of meat at a sitting although I have some with almost every meal. I also eat lots of very fresh very local vegetables, fruits, and nuts not the least because we grow them here on our property and can harvest some fruit or vegetable every month of the year.

The real secret to diet is moderation. There is no need for a 12 oz steak every meal. When we eat steak, we eat that between us. Also, avoiding things that are heavy in fat and grease is both healthier and leaves my stomach feeling much friendlier. We always stop for pastry when we paddle lake Solano but we pass up the bacon wrapped maple bars and the sugar coated cow flops. As usual, common sense rules.

By the way, eat more pistachios and get the price back up. That's my sporting goods money.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

telemike said:


> I think that the secret to diet is a simple one that recognizes our omnivorous heritage.


Not entirely so.



> "early humans had diets very much like other great apes, which is to say a largely plant-based diet, drawing on foods we can pick with our hands. Research suggests that meat-eating probably began by scavenging-eating the leftovers that carnivores had left behind. However, our bodies have never adapted to it. To this day, meat-eaters have a higher incidence of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and other problems."


sauce:Shattering The Meat Myth: Humans Are Natural Vegetarians | HuffPost


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## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

There's a very simple way to distinguish carnivores and omnivores from herbivores. Generally, herbivores (prey animals) have eyes on the sides of the head allowing a very wide field of view. Great for spotting predators.

Carnivores and omnivores have eyes on the front of the head facing forwards. This limits peripheral vision that is so important to prey animals but allows binocular vision to home in on prey.

By the way, many monkeys and some apes (ie chimps) are quite predatory. I suspect that gorillas and orangs are herbivores because they needed to avoid overlap with humans who were very (too) good at eliminating competition. That's evolution for you.


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## DirtnDogs (Dec 11, 2014)

telemike said:


> Personally, I like my plant based diet passed first through cows, pigs, lambs, and chickens.
> 
> Sorry, a wise remark!


I know you meant that as a joke but there is a lot of wisdom in that 'wise remark'. Animals eat the plants and are good at breaking them down into the fat soluble vitamins that humans need for mineral absorption and other things. Humans are not so good at this, the process requires a lot of enzymes and fats and not all humans can do it well enough plus vegans are not getting the fats they need to pull this off. Various mineral and vitamin deficiencies (especially B12 which is only available in animal products) are a big problem with vegan diets and supplements don't help because of the lack of fat soluble vitamins necessary to allow mineral absorption. Protein is the least of the worries with a vegan diet.

Mother Nature is pretty clever, we just have to learn how to play by her rules in a world where our food system has been so heavily industrialized and our old ways of eating and preparing food have been all but lost. Not an easy task but so worth it.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

DirtnDogs said:


> ... Animals eat the plants and are good at breaking them down into the fat soluble vitamins that humans need for mineral absorption and other things. Humans are not so good at this, the process requires a lot of enzymes and fats and not all humans can do it well enough...


Which is why you are supposed to spend some time chewing your food.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

It seems the idea of acquiring all the essential amino acids from plants may not be entirely accurate. At least for optimal health. 

Arguably the most powerful essential amino acid, 
L-carnosine (not to be confused with L-Carnotine), is only found in it's whole active form in vertebrates. The highest and most bioavailabile source of L-carnosine is found in red meat. Lately there have been some scientific articles postulating the human body can produce enough L-Carnosine by combining histidine and beta alanine. Beyond any mechanism in the human body that may be able to acheive this, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

There are at least two good studies (non peer reviewed) measuring blood plasma levels of L-carnosine after a variety of meals & supplements. In a nut shell only 2 things raise blood plasma of L-carnosine to detectable levels. 1 being vertebrate animals especially red meat and the other being L-carnosine supplementation. Interestingly supplementing with beta alanine and histadine did not raise L-carnosine levels.

Any vegetarian/vegan out there may want to spend 20 minutes on google & read up on how important L-carnosine is and decide for yourself if supplementation is something you want to consider. 

I am not pro one diet vs another but can state the obvious. As a society we should be eating FAR more plants and much less meat. What little meat I do consume I know where it comes from & that is not an industrial farm. 

Anecdotally I can spot 95 of 100 longterm vegetarian/vegans from 100 yards way. They all have a similar quality to their skin. I can't help but wonder if that's a direct result of L-carnosine.


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## OlMarin (Oct 22, 2016)

Dirt and Whale hit on something I've known all my life. Man is an omnivore. A balanced diet is what's best for most people. Some need special diets for med reasons, but most don't. 
The average American does eat way too much meat. 
You'll hear of studies done on poorer countries and their lower amount of cancers, diabetes and heart disease. 
It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to understand poorer means less meat in the diet. Meat isn't cheap anywhere. 2+2.
I've been looking at my diet closer since discovering this thread. I've made a few adjustments. I feel better keeping my meat intake below 20%. My fat intake is also down. I can't tolerate much simple sugar, type 1 diabetes. I'm gonna say it's the reason my average speed/s on the bike are up a full mph. (can't be it's well into the season...nah...)


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## MarkMN (May 16, 2017)

OlMarin said:


> Dirt and Whale hit on something I've known all my life. Man is an omnivore. A balanced diet is what's best for most people. Some need special diets for med reasons, but most don't.
> The average American does eat way too much meat.
> You'll hear of studies done on poorer countries and their lower amount of cancers, diabetes and heart disease.
> It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to understand poorer means less meat in the diet. Meat isn't cheap anywhere. 2+2.
> I've been looking at my diet closer since discovering this thread. I've made a few adjustments. I feel better keeping my meat intake below 20%. My fat intake is also down. I can't tolerate much simple sugar, type 1 diabetes. I'm gonna say it's the reason my average speed/s on the bike are up a full mph. (can't be it's well into the season...nah...)


People in poorer countries usually have shorter life span due to a variety of reasons. That might throw the stats off as far a cancer, heart disease, etc is concerned. Has for myself, I can't eat as much meat as I used to due a couple of factor I won't go into now. But I do believe meat is part of the human diet if eaten in the proper proportion.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2017)

If history has proven anything it's this: No matter what diet you choose today, someone in 10 years will prove that it was bad for you. When the whole "eat most of your calories in Carbs" thing hit the streets we were all gonna live to 100, then we discovered the magic of calorie conversion to fat around the liver and spiked the adult onset diabetes curve. My grandmother lived 99 years 4 months. Her philosophy was eat good food in moderation (i.e. high quality whatever, but never too much), get lots of exercise and don't freak out every time some one tries to freak you out. I'm convinced still that she died when she did, not because her age had advanced so far, but because she lost the ability to read and enjoy her food (lack of smell and taste issue). Lose your joy for life and you lose your will to live. Quit exercising and your body will start to shut down. That hasn't changed much since we were using flint to start fires.


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## ddoh (Jan 11, 2017)

For a nice middle ground: The Blue Zone


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

I'm over two weeks now. No meats, seafood, dairy or eggs. I'm eating a lot of salad, fruits, mediterranean and indian. I still have beer and espresso.

I was on zero prescription pills but all my sugars, cholesterol and blood pressure were borderline. Some knee pain too and body soreness.

I was 150 lbs and now I'm 144. I've done two big rides in the last couple of weeks and my climbing was best of the year. I feel great and have good energy and sleep well.

Don't have a long term plan yet but I'm pretty sure I won't go back to my old meat and junk food daily routine. 

Best part is my family and friends are inspired by my journey and are joining in.

fc


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## Scott n (Jul 18, 2017)

chazpat said:


> I've been a pescatarian for 25 years so hard for me to comment on what it has done for me. I have more recently cut out soft drinks and largely processed foods, lost 25 lbs or so, weigh less now than when I graduated college.


Pescatarian would be a good place to start. You can still eat fish (don't eat it daily). Learn other solid sources of protein like quinoa, Chai seeds, beans, lentils to round out your week. Be careful about tofu, it's high in estrogen and soy is one of the most common GMO foods. Eggs are not good for you in large doses, don't use them as a regular protein replacement.

The other thing to look into is recommendations for how many carbs and protein you should be getting for your age and activity level. Carbs aren't bad, if you don't eat carbs you you won't replenish your glycogen stores that help fuel your muscles during workouts. There are lots of different opinions on that topic, so you may need to read a few articles and see what is best for your personal needs.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

59 now, last 26 years very little meat, i look and feel probably like 45.
We can bike daily till 110 but alternating relax mode and pushing mode according to how we feel.
Simple rule, eat mostly plant based foods, not to much
trying to eat local/seasonal, so fresh
alcool never on empty stomach,
some cheeses are not a problem for most just note your results, at 33 i had too much dairies and try stopping it cured my mucus problem now i know i can have 2 portions daily,
eggs raw yoke with cooked white
eskimos eat tons of fat = no problem because allways raw so i avoid cooked fats
it is really simple
you can transition over some months
desserts are just bad habits they taste terrible after we loose the habit, taste buds readjust
it is really worth it
i have seen people growing new hair, being less grey, belt should be 32 in max
skipping meals is a natural thing, just being busy and free from old habits coffee etc.. is a great freedom
all the best !


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Scott n said:


> Pescatarian would be a good place to start. You can still eat fish (don't eat it daily). Learn other solid sources of protein like quinoa, Chai seeds, beans, lentils to round out your week. Be careful about tofu, it's high in estrogen and soy is one of the most common GMO foods. Eggs are not good for you in large doses, don't use them as a regular protein replacement.
> 
> The other thing to look into is recommendations for how many carbs and protein you should be getting for your age and activity level. Carbs aren't bad, if you don't eat carbs you you won't replenish your glycogen stores that help fuel your muscles during workouts. There are lots of different opinions on that topic, so you may need to read a few articles and see what is best for your personal needs.


The "tofu, it's high in estrogen" is basically a misunderstood myth:

For men and boys, the phytoestrogens in soy do not appear to have any effect on hormone levels and have not been shown to affect sexual development or fertility. Research studies show that men consuming soy have less prostate cancer and better prostate cancer survival.

In Asia, where tofu, soymilk, and other soy products are commonly consumed, not only is the population healthier overall, but cancer and heart disease are much rarer than in the United States and Europe, and longevity is greater.

Ask the Expert: Soy | The Physicians Committee

5 Myths About Soy You Probably Still Believe | HuffPost

etc.


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## ridetheridge (Mar 7, 2009)

fc said:


> I'm over two weeks now. No meats, seafood, dairy or eggs. I'm eating a lot of salad, fruits, mediterranean and indian. I still have beer and espresso.
> 
> I was on zero prescription pills but all my sugars, cholesterol and blood pressure were borderline. Some knee pain too and body soreness.
> 
> ...


That's great. The fact that your family is following a similar plan will help alot. Also, we found that making veggie stews, lentil soups etc in great quantity will allow you to freeze left overs enough for maybe another meal or two. Spend time thinking of dishes you like and perfect them, then make them repeatable. Broccoli w/ pasta is a great simple dish and makes a lot.


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## OlMarin (Oct 22, 2016)

OK I admit it. A 10oz rib eye went on the Smoky Joe a few nites ago. If I did something like that every day my health would most likely take a downturn. It would definitely make my wallet thin tho


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

We evolved as omnivores....but as many runners have discovered, even though we evolved as runners, we did so in an environment where the runner was barefoot, weighed 120 pounds, and was eaten by a lion by the age of 42. Hip replacements were probably not a factor. In today's modern world, our evolutionary characteristics probably haven't kept up with Happy Hour. Just be aware of what you eat. I had a bag of potato chips last night and, though it was vegan, I feel like sh*t today!

Guess I'll go for a ride now, while my sodium level is up.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Try eating the potatoe,, not the bag
My ride is done, a bit of pool and yoga, after corn it s beans time
i just love the next 3 months fresh cheap veggies


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

33red said:


> Try eating the potatoe,, not the bag
> My ride is done, a bit of pool and yoga, after corn it s beans time
> i just love the next 3 months fresh cheap veggies


That would help.
I have found, however, that if you eat peanuts without chewing them, they are not nearly as fattening. But, man, the next morning hurts!

I see you prefer Dan Quayle's spelling of the tuber in question. (Also correcte.)


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