# Lame...



## kuna (Feb 25, 2005)

Went down to the Fat Tire Festival in Fruita, and rode around Fruita, Grand Junction, and stopped in Moab. Love the technical riding and their drops are big, and I pushed myself to try new stuff and had a blast and came back with even better skills, but also came away disappointed...not at the trails, but the people with big bikes. 

I can't tell you how many people had these big bikes, Nomads, Specialized, Intense, Titus with 6+ inches of travel, but couldn't or wouldn't ride the "hard" stuff. In fact the majority of those with these bikes wouldn't even consider it and they even had body armor all over and we aren't talking about the rental bike crowd here. 

What gives? I saw one person suffering up a climb on a Nomad and asked if they had a different bike and they said no, this one climbs like a mountain goat??? Another guy on a big Intense didn't want to go down a certain trail because it was too rocky?? Not here to complain or say I am a better rider, but I think there would be a lot more smiles if people rode a bike that matched their riding ability. Kind of like using powder skis on a groomer.
There were a few guys that were great riders though, wow! Rode with quite a few people on groups rides, that were nice and it was interesting meeting new people. Thoughts?


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## rabidchicken (Apr 16, 2009)

There are poseurs everywhere.


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

*I don't think it's all the poser factor.*

At least a few of those folks probably fell victim to marketing hype as far as the bikes are concerned. Just like all the people that have SUVs for city use. They don't need them, and are actually hindered by them. But gosh darn it that's what the magazines, videos, and their friends tell them they need in order to be a real mtb rider. They may not know how much easier and more fun some of that terrain is on a smaller bike, hardtail or (gasp) a rigid.

The body armour is the latest fad but at least it serves a purpose. A fall onto slickrock from any height can be painful and break bones. Lots of folks can't afford to miss work with a broken arm etc so the pads are a smart idea. Those of us who grew up riding in the days before helmets might feel plenty safe without that stuff depending on the terrain.


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## rfeather (Aug 22, 2006)

*I'm tempted to try some of that body armor*

As the sole bread winner for my wife and three kids, one in college, I can't afford those fancy bikes. I have considered using the body armor though just so I can ride closer to my limits. I'm tired of passing people on the uphills in a race to have even more pass me in the downhills and tight stuff.
Rich


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## RookieBeotch (Nov 2, 2008)

I'm not sure if I would ever let someone's choice in bike and riding style bother me... especially not to the point where it disappointing.


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## Steve.E (Apr 10, 2009)

Hmm I think it's partly jealousy?

I'm also into guitars and used to get rather pee'd off when I saw someone younger/less skilled with really nice gear, but at the end of the day it has nothing to do with you really, I can imagine it being annoying if you were going there to ride with similarly skilled riders and found you were the only of your calibre there (within reason), then it would be rather boring, but I don't think you'd complain about their riding ability if they had lesser equipment.

I have a Specialized Enduro and have only just got back into mountain biking, I haven't even been to a decent trail in my life (used to ride street and trials), but I bought a bike that is 'better' than my current skill level so it will hopefully last me a long time.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

I have a policy of accosting and reprimanding people who buy quality bicycles, but have not yet developed all the necessary skillz to pay the billz. I make a lot of friends that way.

Or I just lead by example & show em how it's done on a 15 year old Rigid. When they attempt it and fail, they at least have all those inches of floppy travel to soften their error.

What many consider "big bikes", I consider "safety bikes". ...furthered by copious body armor. Like water wings for children learning to swim.

But I don't go and talk about it. ..like this.


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

maybe some of these guys are trying to pull the bigger stuff, and they just haven't built up to it yet. sometimes it takes riding up to the lip of a drop 100x before you finally commit. these guys just have the right bike for them for the day they actually do the drop. sometimes you ride a bike to stretch your ability, not to match it. 

that said, there's nothing wrong with you being a little annoyed with it either.


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## kuna (Feb 25, 2005)

*Yeah*

I don't think I would call them posers, the SUV is a good comparison.

I wouldn't really say I am bothered a bunch by it, but was disappointed to be going on group rides with those individuals with big bikes and armor only to find out that they don't want to do the trails or the technical stuff those bikes and their dress were designed for.

I think shin guards/knee pads and sometimes elbow pads are great for going down ruff stuff - I know I have needed it.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

About seeing beginners on a high-end bike...

If you were not you, but instead were the guy with 20million in the bank, and you were excited to try mountain biking, would you go buy a $500 bike to learn freeriding on? Or would you buy a capable, performance freeride bike, and learn to ride it?

Seeing beyond your own experience is key.


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## dirtpunk7 (Dec 17, 2007)

Many people buy bikes that they can grow into. I know many guys whose skill improved considerably after thay bought a bike that could handle a more aggressive riding style. In many cases I would say it works. 
Having a bike with more travel will instill a rider with more confidence and help them take things on that they would not have considered before.
But it depends on the rider to push themselves. Mtbing is about having fun, as long as they are having fun, who cares. 
Some people ride XC on the DH bike, others can rail a DH trail with a HT. To each their own, live and let live.
Sorry, but to me you sound like you kinda have a superiority complex. Just because you can do stuff that others can't on a bigger bike doesn't mean they don't have the skills to ride their 6" bike or should be on a XC bike. Maybe they can rail different style of trails better than most or their switchback skills are superior. Usually, every rider has some strengths and weaknesses. And not every place has so much huckable options on their trails and many do not have experience catching air. Doesn't mean their 6" bike is under used.
Lastly, we are talking about people on vacation who don't want to get hurt while having fun. 
Was just in SW Utah last week and my buddy endoed on a 4.5 ft drop and landed on his head, boke his helmet in 3 places and was lucky to come away with just a sore neck. Right after he was asking himself,"why"? Getting home pain free is definitely a motivator in itself as well.

My 2 cents.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

kuna said:


> I don't think I would call them posers, the SUV is a good comparison.
> 
> I wouldn't really say I am bothered a bunch by it, but was disappointed to be going on group rides with those individuals with big bikes and armor only to find out that they don't want to do the trails or the technical stuff those bikes and their dress were designed for.
> 
> I think shin guards/knee pads and sometimes elbow pads are great for going down ruff stuff - I know I have needed it.


With the bikes, I think it's partly marketing hype and partly misunderstanding on the owners part. The more I read, the more I see people thinking they need a 5" or 6" bike to get down the trails, regardless of the terrain. A lot of people also equate suspension with comfort, _not_ with what it's intended for, which is maintaining traction with the trail, and on bigger bikes, absorbing those big hits.

With the body armor, they could just be wearing it because they feel it adds extra protection for them in all scenarios of riding, instead of wearing it on rocky and scary stuff.


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## Satiro (Apr 21, 2009)

Let them buy and use whatever they want, not everyone is employed in what they do best but what they were able or wanted to get.


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## AscentCanada (Aug 20, 2004)

*Its the progression of our sport*

As the bikes improve the bar gets raised, both for what people are buying and riding. 5" bikes are now in the cross country category. :eekster: What used to be considered a freeride or downhill trail is now being ridden on "xc" bikes. The bikes are better and its amazing what you can ride now. But beginners still start at the same level regardless of if you are on a 5" travel bike or a hard tail. You still gotta learn your bike handling skills. So if you are getting into riding should you get a hardtail just to upgrade in a few years?

But I agree there are alot of people suffering away riding heavy freeride bikes on cross country trails where you don't need anymore than 3" of travel. Its all good if your also doing freeride stuff and riding everything on one bike. But sometimes I doubt that is the case.


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## zadey1234 (May 7, 2007)

6" of travel and they wouldn't ride the hard stuff?

Sounds like some people on my local trails. Well, they're actually riding buddy's. They have freeride bikes with a sh*t ton of travel but they won't ride 80% of what I ride. They're scared that somethings going to get broken. For f*&^ sakes they wouldn't even feel any of it, now me on the other hand, I feel every single little piece of trail and I like it that way. I'll probably never ride a bike with suspension. Rigid, FTW.


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

Who cares, at least they ride at all.


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## mountain_bomber156 (Feb 17, 2009)

*Definitely Lame*

If you're not going to ride a bike like it was meant to be ridden, why ride it? If people are afraid of breaking bones on stuff like that wearing a full body armor suit, they should be curled up in a ball at the trailhead, not trying to look all macho and bust out a 20mph sprint on next to flat terrain on a 6" travel AM rig. Kuna has a very good point going here. I don't know why I didn't, but I'm thinking of getting a HARDTAIL ALL-MOUNTAIN BIKE. YES, A HARDTAIL ALL-MOUNTAIN BIKE. Laugh now, if you want... I've never shied away from terrain no matter how hard on any bike. I could easily take any AM-level trail with a hardtail and a good 6" of front suspension. To the guys described by Kuna:

GROW SOME BALLS!


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

zadey1234 said:


> Rigid, FTW.


I just built up a rigid 29'er SS. I am amazed at how much I like rigid.


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## RookieBeotch (Nov 2, 2008)

mountain_bomber156 said:


> If you're not going to ride a bike like it was meant to be ridden, why ride it? If people are afraid of breaking bones on stuff like that wearing a full body armor suit, they should be curled up in a ball at the trailhead, not trying to look all macho and bust out a 20mph sprint on next to flat terrain on a 6" travel AM rig. Kuna has a very good point going here. I don't know why I didn't, but I'm thinking of getting a HARDTAIL ALL-MOUNTAIN BIKE. YES, A HARDTAIL ALL-MOUNTAIN BIKE. Laugh now, if you want... I've never shied away from terrain no matter how hard on any bike. I could easily take any AM-level trail with a hardtail and a good 6" of front suspension. To the guys described by Kuna:
> 
> GROW SOME BALLS!


I better pass that information on to the mountain bike riders I see everywhere at my college campus... Since they're using them to commute and not to ride trails you know.


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## rafdog (Jun 16, 2006)

Retracted.. I was a bit harsh.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Well, I guess that rant is one way to stroke your ego.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

kuna said:


> I think there would be a lot more smiles if people rode a bike that matched their riding ability.


I think a person's capacity to have fun has less to do with his or her ability than it has to do with his or her attitude and personality.

I've seen some very talented people forcing themselves to have a crummy time and I've seen rank beginners having the time of their lives.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

> Thoughts?


So what? Why worry about what others are doing?


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## ArmySlowRdr (Dec 19, 2003)

formica said:


> So what? Why worry about what others are doing?


People like to study each other. So what.


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## jonlong (Sep 29, 2004)

I understand the initial reaction of disappointment that they have a bike they don't "deserve." But that is only a valid reaction if you think the bike you ride is the indicator of your value as a cyclist. And just about anyone can downgrade their bikes a bit; we don't all need the stuff we have.

But, there is nothing wrong with having a nice bike. I am the limiting the factor on my bikes, but I really enjoy having them. The important thing is that we're all riding and supporting the bike industry.


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## Sea Moss (Apr 24, 2009)

"Lame" indeed.

Kuna, you silly twit, it's not about their ride, it's about the ride.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

jonlong said:


> *I understand the initial reaction of disappointment that they have a bike they don't "deserve." But that is only a valid reaction if you think the bike you ride is the indicator of your value as a cyclist. * And just about anyone can downgrade their bikes a bit; we don't all need the stuff we have.
> 
> But, there is nothing wrong with having a nice bike. I am the limiting the factor on my bikes, but I really enjoy having them. The important thing is that we're all riding and supporting the bike industry.


It's more an indicator of one's value as a consumer. The bike is just an object that we buy, not a title or trophy that we earn. The only thing that determines whether or not we "deserve" it is whether or not we have the money (or credit).

I'm pretty sure the manufacturers and retailers don't care if we are skilled enough to "deserve" it or not. You gots the dough, here ya go.


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## doomednoob (Apr 13, 2009)

I gotta say, I have yet to even but a bike, im just stuck with my trek 7300 hybrid; but i plan to but a nice FS when I get the chance. It's like when I built my own golf clubs as a kid, made em big for a reason, something I can "grow into." I see buying a bike for something I know I'll love doing goes the same way. 

(I think this was a worthy 1st post.)


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

doomednoob said:


> (I think this was a worthy 1st post.)


Yes it was.

Otherwise, I'm taking the bikes from anyone I ride faster, smoother, more agile, or with in any way more flair than, and downgrading them to pushscooters until they get it right.

Seriously. It's just a bike. More people _should_ have nice bikes. They're fun, you'll like it.


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

do you have any evidence of any of this actually occurring? i mean there are so many variables to consider... some of those people might have had nightmare accidents, or perhaps as some others have mentioned, they are getting used to their bikes...

i know when i got my first real AM bike that i wrecked several times and was way behind the pack... i got home with three bruised ribs, 2 broken fingers, and my right shoulder was so stiff i was walking at work like a hunchback... my first investment? some shoulder pads, and gloves with knuckle protection... and a lot more patience....

since then ive decided to take on a more XC approach, and most of the people I ride with ride slower than me still, but guess what? at the end of the day we are drinking a beer and smiling talking BS... 

don't get me wrong i know where you are coming from, but its just the wrong way to think about others that have stuff that maybe you want...

just my 2c


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## zadey1234 (May 7, 2007)

HotBlack said:


> Yes it was.
> 
> Otherwise, I'm taking the bikes from anyone I ride faster, smoother, more agile, or with in any way more flair than, and downgrading them to pushscooters until they get it right.
> 
> Seriously. It's just a bike. More people _should_ have nice bikes. They're fun, you'll like it.


Its funny though, I'd rather ride my rigid than a fully any day of the week. I'm a better rider than my buddy's who spend 2k on a freeride rig that their scared that its going to get dirty or scratched. I've put $250-$300 into my bike so far and got the bike for free. You don't need a fancy ass bike to kick ass. Trust me.


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## Ray Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

I dont really care what other people ride but I get your point, its Kinda like all the sport bikes i see on the street... a Yamaha R6 to cruise around town is like using a Samurai sword to butter a piece of bread



kuna said:


> Went down to the Fat Tire Festival in Fruita, and rode around Fruita, Grand Junction, and stopped in Moab. Love the technical riding and their drops are big, and I pushed myself to try new stuff and had a blast and came back with even better skills, but also came away disappointed...not at the trails, but the people with big bikes.
> 
> I can't tell you how many people had these big bikes, Nomads, Specialized, Intense, Titus with 6+ inches of travel, but couldn't or wouldn't ride the "hard" stuff. In fact the majority of those with these bikes wouldn't even consider it and they even had body armor all over and we aren't talking about the rental bike crowd here.
> 
> ...


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## Swthrtsuzy (Sep 1, 2008)

I guess I would be one of the lame-os you're talking about because I'm a relative noob, and I ride a pretty nice bike. Don't get me wrong, it's no "big bike", but most would consider it more than I deserve, or can handle. However, as my LBS guy, and several people on this thread have said, it's a bike I will grow into. Having a bike that's not necessarily at your level does give you confidence to try things that you're not used to, or that wig you out. I can attest to that. My first ride out on this bike, I was cleaning sections of rock garden that had scared me spitless just the week before on my entry level bike. There's a lot to be said for the piece of mind that the machine you're riding can definitely handle anything you'll take it over - even if you can't. I'm regularly awed by people who have such confidence in their riding that they can ride Moab and Fruita without batting an eye. I have a great deal of respect for that level of skill, and while I may not have it yet...I will, and that's enough reason for me to justify paying so much money for a bike that's better than I am. We all ride because it's our passion. Don't cheapen someone else's passion because you don't think they deserve to ride the bike of their choosing. Cheers.


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## mountain_bomber156 (Feb 17, 2009)

Nat said:


> It's more an indicator of one's value as a consumer. The bike is just an object that we buy, not a title or trophy that we earn. The only thing that determines whether or not we "deserve" it is whether or not we have the money (or credit).
> 
> I'm pretty sure the manufacturers and retailers don't care if we are skilled enough to "deserve" it or not. You gots the dough, here ya go.


Hmm...that's true. But unless you're completely detached from the world of mountain biking, you know that a cross-country trail only needs max 4" of travel. Anything above is considered traditional trail and anything above that is considered all-mountain.If you are going to spend more money on a bike not necessary for your riding style, well, don't.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Most of my local trails are ridable on a rigid singlespeed. My singlespeed hardtail lets me hit them faster. That does not really compare with the way I hit them on the "big bike".

---- it is all the same, except it is different ----


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## Konish (Dec 26, 2006)

mountain_bomber156 said:


> If you are going to spend more money on a bike not necessary for your riding style, well, don't.


Or what? Maybe <gasp> looking a poser to one of you super-rad, hard-core, bull-balled MTB gods? Grow up. Why does anyone care what others choose or not choose to spend their money on as long as it ain't hurting anyone? Gawd I could care less what some kid thinks of me, my bike or my riding style.

These types of thread...you know the ones..."I'm so MUCH better than my friend on his $4000 DH bike, and I'm on this lowly dumpster hardtail with flat tires" is just a LAME attempt to be validated.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

mountain_bomber156 said:


> Hmm...that's true. But unless you're completely detached from the world of mountain biking, you know that a cross-country trail only needs max 4" of travel. Anything above is considered traditional trail and anything above that is considered all-mountain.If you are going to spend more money on a bike not necessary for your riding style, well, don't.


Wow. Somebody bought all the marketing speak for sure; hook, line, and sinker.


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## TheDude (Feb 18, 2004)

“It is exactly because a man cannot do a thing that he is a proper judge of it”
- Oscar WIlde


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## Blister Butt (Jul 20, 2005)

*The only thing "lame" here...*

...is this post.

Why is this posted under Passion in the first place? Who gives a rat's p'tootie what anyone is riding and how they're riding? At least they're out there riding! Give 'em a friggen break!

This reminds me of going to Aspen or Vail to ski and having all the local bluenoses chatting it up in the lodge about the "apalling" fashion and equipment that people were using to "invade their mountain."

Biking has always been an accepting sport and passtime. The last thing we need out there on the trails are the equipment police. These types of discussions are as lame and useless as the endless debate about Spandex versus baggies.

Man up, pussies, and celebrate the fact that there are people out there riding bikes instead of sitting at home on their butts with their thumbs on the Nintendo controller!

Geez....


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

mountain_bomber156 said:


> Hmm...that's true. But unless you're completely detached from the world of mountain biking, you know that a cross-country trail only needs max 4" of travel. Anything above is considered traditional trail and anything above that is considered all-mountain.If you are going to spend more money on a bike not necessary for your riding style, well, don't.


What happens if you bring your 6" fully on a road trip and on the way home decide to catch a spin on a so-called 4"-max limit XC trail? Do you skip it because your bike has 2 more inches of travel than you feel you need, or do you ride it anyway?

What happens if you bring your 6" fully on a trail that has some tech sections on which you make use of all 6", but then has several miles of smooth singletrack on which you could've brought a cyclocross bike?

What if your riding style includes all manner of trail and you only want to buy one bike?


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## kafromet (Sep 7, 2008)

RookieBeotch said:


> I'm not sure if I would ever let someone's choice in bike and riding style bother me... especially not to the point where it disappointing.


+1

Are they out there on two wheels and no motor?

Are they being safe, responsible and courteous to others?

Other than those things, what someone else is doing on the trail shouldn't have any impact on your experience while riding. If it does then there is a good chance that you're probably more concerned with image and elitism than enjoying your own ride.


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## PaMtnBkr (Feb 28, 2005)

*Lame?*



kuna said:


> Went down to the Fat Tire Festival in Fruita, and rode around Fruita, Grand Junction, and stopped in Moab. Love the technical riding and their drops are big, and I pushed myself to try new stuff and had a blast and came back with even better skills, but also came away disappointed...not at the trails, but the people with big bikes.
> 
> I can't tell you how many people had these big bikes, Nomads, Specialized, Intense, Titus with 6+ inches of travel, but couldn't or wouldn't ride the "hard" stuff. In fact the majority of those with these bikes wouldn't even consider it and they even had body armor all over and we aren't talking about the rental bike crowd here.
> 
> ...


For me, I could care less what a person rides and how he rides it. In my case, I buy typically longer travel bikes because they can take the abuse of my 6'3" 240 Lbs (Inc Camelbak) body on the rocks and stuff. I do not do big drops, but shorter travel bikes tend to be lighter in their construction and I break frames on a regular basis. So far as body armor goes, I like to ride again the next time, so if my armor keeps me on the bike from ride to ride, so be it. At 49 it takes too long to heal from injuries. I currently ride a 5" Chumba XCL and it is a burly biatch that so far has taken the abuse I pile on it just by my size and places we ride.:thumbsup:


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## eat_dirt (May 26, 2008)

here in florida, we have people on AM rigs tackling hardtail singletrack like felasco.

then you see someone plodding around on a department store bike and laugh.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

marble slab, Ben & Jerry's, BlueBell, Hagen Daz, homemade...it's all ice cream! don't worry about what the kid next to you is having! Eat yours and enjoy it before the **** melts!


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## Mrwhlr (Sep 16, 2006)

HotBlack said:


> I have a policy of accosting and reprimanding people who buy quality bicycles, but have not yet deve.......luddite rant........


You still refuse to carry tubes, or a pump, in favor of handfuls of leaves?

Decided to get 'back on the grid' to tell us all how it really is eh?


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## mountain_bomber156 (Feb 17, 2009)

Nat said:


> What happens if you bring your 6" fully on a road trip and on the way home decide to catch a spin on a so-called 4"-max limit XC trail? Do you skip it because your bike has 2 more inches of travel than you feel you need, or do you ride it anyway?
> 
> What happens if you bring your 6" fully on a trail that has some tech sections on which you make use of all 6", but then has several miles of smooth singletrack on which you could've brought a cyclocross bike?
> 
> What if your riding style includes all manner of trail and you only want to buy one bike?


I get that, I'm just saying... ah, what the hell. People have defined standards for bikes for different types of riding. I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, and if you want to ride an XC trail on a 6" bike go ahead. 
Somehow I knew posting in this thread would be a bad idea...


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

I like a burlier bike with at leat 5 inches of travel, it tends mask my riding deficiencies. 
I crashed a lot on my xc bike. squared off ruts were the killer!! I have also been able to gain skills riding the AM bike. Further the XC bike was twitchy on the downhills and I felt as though I was going to fall over the low bars.

I have body armor on order, and will use a neck brace. . 

It's smarter to walk down rocky downhills than to ride them and crash. "There are Bold and Old pilots but never Bold Old pIlots."


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## cowdog (Apr 14, 2004)

I wish more of my XC friends had big bikes. For one thing, that would mean their bikes were actually less than 100 years old. People around here, the carousel of students aside, tend to be highly frugal and love to do more with less. As such we end up spending hours way back in the hills all the time trying to fix ancient bike gear that has no business on any trail.

We also have a seriously fit community, and anything that can slow down some of these aerobic monsters on climbs would be just fine with me. I'd be happy to see them on DH bikes for XC/trail riding.


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## Impalla (May 10, 2007)

kuna said:


> Went down to the Fat Tire Festival in Fruita, and rode around Fruita, Grand Junction, and stopped in Moab. Love the technical riding and their drops are big, and I pushed myself to try new stuff and had a blast and came back with even better skills, but also came away disappointed...not at the trails, but the people with big bikes.
> 
> I can't tell you how many people had these big bikes, Nomads, Specialized, Intense, Titus with 6+ inches of travel, but couldn't or wouldn't ride the "hard" stuff. In fact the majority of those with these bikes wouldn't even consider it and they even had body armor all over and we aren't talking about the rental bike crowd here.
> 
> ...


If you can afford to buy a nice bike, why not? Who cares about riding skill? Riders choice. Buy what you can afford. 

-Impalla


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

eat_dirt said:


> here in florida, we have people on AM rigs tackling hardtail singletrack like felasco.
> 
> then you see someone plodding around on a department store bike and laugh.


Florida itself is laughable, so are you sure you want to be mocking others?


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

kuna said:


> Thoughts?


Not everyone is awesome like you. Stop bragging. Besides, how does their riding affect you? Right, it didn't.


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## santacruzchick (Jun 27, 2007)

You can sneer at 'newbies', or 'people riding xc trails' wearing body armor if you want (allot of people do) but the fact is that these 'newbies' can really benefit allot from good body armor. I wish I had worn body armor when I was a beginner, I would have avoided several injuries and a slew of scars on my knees, shins, and elbows, and thousands in hospital bills for stitches and x-rays. Now, I wear a hard plastic (661 race light) knee/shin guard combo on EVERY RIDE, regardless of what it is. I wear elbow pads when I know I'm going to be doing drops and gnarly freeride terrain, and I have a 661 pro pressure suit and a full face for DH racing and other particularly dangerous/high risk things like learning to dirt jump. It's all relative to your skill level and comfort zone and eagerness to pay hospital bills!

The only thing lame is someone sneering at other people for their decision to use body armor or buy a certain bike. 
Come to think of it, when I got my first 'good' mountain bike (a new 2004 santacruz blur with gasp! 4" of travel!), I was seriously over-biked and was riding a nicer bike than many of the guys who worked in the shop that sold it to me. Well, I had sold my jeep to buy that bike and I'm glad I did. I progressed rapidly and started wanting to do bigger drops and steeper downhills, that bike got KO'ed in a car accident and I got a blur LT (5.5", slacker geometry) with the insurance money. Again, I felt over-biked, but a whole new world opened up to me on the trail. 2 years later I'm trying to sell the old LT and get a Nomad because I've progressed and am lusting after bigger, steeper, gnarlier things. Will I be able to fully utilize the Nomad's capabilities when I get it? Probably not. But would I even attempt some of those things on the old LT? Hell no. Better, more capable bikes are a great learning tool. People who criticize others for riding a bike that's 'too good' for them are just jealous and underfunded.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Hey, this is just like in the All Mountain forum...


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

You take a trip to Fruita and Moab and the title of your post is ,"Lame..."????? Get your priorities straight son!


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## cchase86 (Mar 7, 2006)

I don't agree with what he's saying, but the original post sounded more like people riding the wrong bike for the wrong place and it sounds like many of you think he's arguing people that can't ride well don't deserve nice bikes.

Not the same argument.


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## kuna (Feb 25, 2005)

*Yes*



cchase86 said:


> I don't agree with what he's saying, but the original post sounded more like people riding the wrong bike for the wrong place and it sounds like many of you think he's arguing people that can't ride well don't deserve nice bikes.
> 
> Not the same argument.


Right - if you can afford the nice bikes, I say buy them, nice bikes are nice bikes no matter what your riding ability. I didn't say they were newbie riders either, and I consider myself still somewhat newbie, but like this quote, seemed like wrong bike for the riders and their applications. I posted in Passion cause I don't like all the categories in MTB now - all mountain? isn't that just a marketing term for mountain biking? MTB riding to me is riding off road, and you have lots of options for bikes to meet your riding style, maybe quite a few riders think that bigger is needed when maybe it isn't for them. I thought maybe some passion for riding is getting caught up in the passion for want or what we maybe told we need. Keep riding.


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## VanHalen (Apr 1, 2009)

*Not too worried...*

LOL my riding buddy just bought a bike off of someone. It was a rocky mountain slayer, and the person used it as a commuter bike ut:

I just think of it this way, if you learn on a POS bike, you learn real skills and handling. The high dollar fancy bikes let you get away with a lot of stuff those people will never master without the bike.

I learned on a cheap hardtail, and was determined to become a good rider before getting a good bike. Just recently I built up my first FS bike, and my speed and abilities have quadrupled just over the last three rides. Where before I cleared 60-70% of the obstacles I now clear 90-100%, the bike makes it so easy, and I can get a lot more riding in before going to work than ever.

Those people who start out on them fancy bikes, I know they will probably never become very skilled at it, and those are probably the bikes ending up on craigslist and ebay: 'need to get rid of this, taking up space in the garage, has some sort of suspension on it and has a flat'.

So I'm not too worried about it, since those people won't last anyways...


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

mountain_bomber156 said:


> Somehow I knew posting in this thread would be a bad idea...


From what I've seen of your posts, they're all bad ideas.


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

Your lame is my stoke. I'd be super vibed to see anyone else on the trails whether it be a $600 ht or $6000 duallie. I d o n ' t care. In fact, as others have alluded toward, it would be that much more gratifying if I was able to out-ride them on "less" of a bike.

The key stone of your rant is "Moab". First time out there is a definite mind ****. Most people aren't used to that kind of exposure. The wires in the brain just don't connect. Any ride experience in Moab is sure to advance/grow your skills. I've seen the same riders on the same bikes in S. Florida. You want to talk about lame, imagine living in Miami, elevatin 70ft and your nearest area to ride is an 1.5hr / 20 min drive to Oleta or Markham. That's some serious angst there but riders still ride and they enjoy the same uber VPP bike that everyone else lusts for.

Like Kuna/you said, if you can afford them, buy 'em. There are worse vices in life: video games, couch surfing, to name a few sedentary diversions.


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## dances_on_pedals (Sep 17, 2004)

*Lame*

I walked to the mailbox in my running shoes today. I could feel my neighbor smirking, didn't even have to see his face...


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## wahoofish (Feb 2, 2004)

Was in a Performance store a couple years ago looking for some parts and a 50ish man brought in a brand new high-end 5/6 inch travel Specialized for some modifications. He currently had a riser bar with bar-ends mounted straight up. I heard him asking the mechanics to make the riding position more upright and comfortable. I was so offended that I said "that's so lame".

I week later I was flying down some chunk on Noble Canyon when I heard someone from behind yell "on your left". As I moved over, I was passed by Mr 50ish man with hands on bar ends who yelled "Who's lame now fool?"

I now ride with bar ends straight up.......... Thank you 50ish man.


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## HTR4EVR (Jun 15, 2007)

For me is not lame if those guys in big bikes don't want to ride some section.But it is very lame when they try to fix the trail instead of working on their skills...


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

HTR4EVR said:


> For me is not lame if those guys in big bikes don't want to ride some section.*But it is very lame when they try to fix the trail instead of working on their skills.*..


Now that is extremely lame.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

Mrwhlr said:


> You still refuse to carry tubes, or a pump, in favor of handfuls of leaves?
> 
> Decided to get 'back on the grid' to tell us all how it really is eh?


I do.

...and I never left. Or went "off the grid". But it's ok, I understand. Sarcasm is hard.


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## Luigiugueto (Oct 16, 2007)

Poser: From latin "po" which means "lots of money" and "ser" which means no balls..

world's full of em dude lol


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

wahoofish said:


> Was in a Performance store a couple years ago looking for some parts and a 50ish man brought in a brand new high-end 5/6 inch travel Specialized for some modifications. He currently had a riser bar with bar-ends mounted straight up. I heard him asking the mechanics to make the riding position more upright and comfortable. I was so offended that I said "that's so lame".
> 
> I week later I was flying down some chunk on Noble Canyon when I heard someone from behind yell "on your left". As I moved over, I was passed by Mr 50ish man with hands on bar ends who yelled "Who's lame now fool?"
> 
> I now ride with bar ends straight up.......... Thank you 50ish man.


:lol: :lol: Excellent story!


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## anthonys (Jan 22, 2004)

kuna said:


> Went down to the Fat Tire Festival in Fruita, and rode around Fruita, Grand Junction, and stopped in Moab. Love the technical riding and their drops are big, and I pushed myself to try new stuff and had a blast and came back with even better skills, but also came away disappointed...not at the trails, but the people with big bikes.
> 
> I can't tell you how many people had these big bikes, Nomads, Specialized, Intense, Titus with 6+ inches of travel, but couldn't or wouldn't ride the "hard" stuff. In fact the majority of those with these bikes wouldn't even consider it and they even had body armor all over and we aren't talking about the rental bike crowd here.
> 
> ...


Thoughts? Yes, I think that (to quote the Rockman), "we see what we want to see and we hear what we want to hear".

I think this post is only a snapshot view of what was happening out there last weekend.

I think that last weekend in Fruita, GJ and Moab a LOT of people with "big" bikes rode and cleaned a LOT of stuff.

I ride with some armor, and I ride a 6" bike. I sometimes walk things. I think that if this disappoints anyone other than me, perhaps those people need to invest in some emotional body armor to better protect those sensitive feelings.

I think that there were a lot of people on rental and demo bikes. Specialized, Turner, Pivot, Commencal, Kona, Trek, Yeti, &c. were all out there demoing bikes. I can only speak for myself, but at Yeti we demo bikes to people regardless of race, creed, color, or likeliness of possible poseurhood.


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## bigpedaler (Jan 29, 2007)

Maybe I'm just out there, but I thought the idea of mountain biking was to enjoy riding your bike on dirt! I don't need to prove my skills, my merit for owning/riding a particular type of bike, ot anything else, to anyone! So you can ride things I can't, or you can ride them on a rigid while I have 5+" of boing -- SO THE F*** WHAT? I guess you think that makes your ba||s bigger than mine, too, eh? Trust me -- there's only one person on the planet I need to prove my manhood to, and SHE won't care about my MTB skills!


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

So, I'm lame...so what?


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## Kneescar (Feb 26, 2009)

I'm a super-noob and I have a decent bike. I'm happy with it and I'm sure that as my skill develops the bike will still be good for me. I'm growing into it. On my first ride I showed up and three guys were getting ready to head out. I got smiles from two of them and a contemptuous look from one. No big deal to me. Funny thing is that about halfway through my first ride (two wrecks in) I had to make an emergency stop and fell over sideways into a thorn bush. As I lay there, I couldn't do anything but laugh - really loud. Turns out the three amigos were riding by on a different loop and could look down and see me laying there laughing like a madman. Do I care what they thought of me? Hell no. Was I having a really fun time? Hell yes!

I'm really enjoying this....crashes and all.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

bigpedaler said:


> Maybe I'm just out there, but I thought the idea of mountain biking was to enjoy riding your bike on dirt! I don't need to prove my skills, my merit for owning/riding a particular type of bike, ot anything else, to anyone! So you can ride things I can't, or you can ride them on a rigid while I have 5+" of boing -- SO THE F*** WHAT? I guess you think that makes your ba||s bigger than mine, too, eh? Trust me -- there's only one person on the planet I need to prove my manhood to, and SHE won't care about my MTB skills!


Eh, just think of it like, when people who really do look down their nose at others because of such shallow reasons as "bicycle of choice" are so vocal about it, they're doing you a favor. Oh sure, it's annoying, like any good early warning system, but it lets you know right up front that they're a total jackass. Nothin like letting you know in advance, so ya don't get stuck with em for 60 miles, unable to get away, while being forced to listen to what is wrong with everyone else on the trail. ...when you traveled halfway across the country to have a good time on your bike and enjoy some beautiful scenery.


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## Shelbak73 (Nov 10, 2007)

I honestly don't care what type bike they ride, or can't ride, just so long as they don't compensate by cutting B-lines around features on their way up or down.

My 2 cents


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

Yay kuna.. You go down!


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## simian23 (Aug 13, 2004)

*I thank the poseurs every day*

This industry, and nearly every other consumer-driven industry (bikes, cars, computers, electronics, etc.), is fueled by people buying what they do not "need." But for those of us that push the equipment to its limits these consumers are a godsend. I don't think there would be ANY 5 or 6" travel bikes if people were not buying what they did not need. Such bikes would be relegated to hyper-specialized boutique brands. Gotta-have-it consumers help drive R&D by being early adopters as well. Experienced riders hate to change their equipment because they're so used to it. New riders have no such hangups.

There wouldn't be multiple types of pad manufacturers either - probably just 661 and Fox. And then there's the used market. How many of these consumers try the bike and sell it barely used after a year? I buy almost everything used now. I couldn't do that 10 years ago (although Ebay and Craigslist weren't around then either).

As for the "bike you can grow into" argument...ehhh I'm not sure I buy that one. Who here still rides the first bike they bought? If you have no idea of your own riding style, preferred terrain, or position on the bike how the hell can you find a perfect bike right away?

I don't recommend beginners get budget hardtails because I think they should "earn" nice bikes. I just think it takes time to know what works for one, and in the meantime, any old hardtail will teach one all manner of useful skills - whether one progresses to freeride, trials, or XC racing.

I agree with others though, the OP is looking for some kind of validation. :nono: Weak.


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## mountain_bomber156 (Feb 17, 2009)

nachomc said:


> From what I've seen of your posts, they're all bad ideas.


Thank you, man. I really needed that today.


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## EvilScience (Jul 16, 2004)

Well, its already been said but - who cares what I ride or why (also why should I care what others think)? 

I ride a rigid hardtail for the easy days, and a 5' travel motolite for my attempts to tackle tougher terrain (not a 'freeride' bike by todays standards, but more than big enough for me). However, like many others, I'm pushing middle age (read breakable) and have to show up at work on Monday morning to support my family.... This means I can't always push the envelope, go big, or be 'extreme'. Some days I am in the groove and can push my limits safely, other days the fear takes over and its best to walk a few sections rather than flinching and being carried away. If this means the bike is too much for me, or that I am a poseur, then I'll just keep on posing thank you.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

*Nice bike!*

I don't care what people say, I like to ride nice bikes!


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## Mrwhlr (Sep 16, 2006)

HotBlack said:


> Eh, just think of it like, when people who really do look down their nose at others because of such shallow reasons as "bicycle of choice" are so vocal about it, they're doing you a favor. *Oh sure, it's annoying, like any good early warning system, but it lets you know right up front that they're a total jackass*. Nothin like letting you know in advance, so ya don't get stuck with em for 60 miles, unable to get away, while being forced to listen to what is wrong with everyone else on the trail. ...when you traveled halfway across the country to have a good time on your bike and enjoy some beautiful scenery.


Do you wear a name tag?


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

i couldnt help myself


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

hell yeah...now just post up a pic of you on this whip. Maybe a 4-6ft drop or gap? during and after pics too and you will rule this thread!!


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## dirtpunk7 (Dec 17, 2007)

The "grow into the bike" argument is definitely valid IMO. Maybe not for complete newbies who don't know the style of riding that they want to get into. But it is definitely valid among avid riders who want to make some skills progression or try a new style of riding like DH or FR. A bigger travel bike is not something you immediately become one with if you do not have previous experience, it takes time and practice to get comfortable to hit stuff you previously would have avoided. You "grow into it" by slowly progressing your skills until they meet the limits of your bike or not. I know, I'm stating the obvious here but I had to defend the "grow into the bike" argument. 
Keep riding!


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

Mrwhlr said:


> Do you wear a name tag?


No, simply punch people in the mouth when I meet them.

Awww, I have a fan.


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## klay (Feb 23, 2006)

*RE Lame...*

I remember when I was recovering from ACL surgery I would take my 6" bike to the easiest trails in town and still have to walk even the slightest technical sections. I'm sure people were thinking I was quite the "poser". I wanted to wear a shirt that said "just had surgery get off my back". Anyway I guess my point is you never really know anyone's story, maybe they would kick ass on their home trails, maybe it's not even there bike, or maybe they just had surgery etc&#8230;


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## mountain_bomber156 (Feb 17, 2009)

Mrwhlr said:


> Do you wear a name tag?


I agree completely. The guy's been on everybody's effing back for opinions he doesn't like.
Meh.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

mountain_bomber156 said:


> I agree completely. The guy's been on everybody's effing back for opinions he doesn't like.
> Meh.


No, just the really, really stupid ones.


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## Climb-n-Bomb (Jul 2, 2007)

Nat said:


> I think a person's capacity to have fun has less to do with his or her ability than it has to do with his or her attitude and personality.
> 
> I've seen some very talented people forcing themselves to have a crummy time and I've seen rank beginners having the time of their lives.


well said, mtbing just like life, all bout the tude!!:thumbsup:


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## Climb-n-Bomb (Jul 2, 2007)

scrublover said:


> Wow. Somebody bought all the marketing speak for sure; hook, line, and sinker.


Touche' lol


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## mountain_bomber156 (Feb 17, 2009)

*Now I have a pretty good idea what's lame here...*

Mountain biking is like a huge family. Everyone is related to each other in some way. I find it extremely appalling that we could be ripped apart by something as petty as an oddball thread pertaining to some "girly-men" from Fruita and some unimportant marketing sh1t . Come on, guys; do we really want to stoop to the level of flame mail and grudges to prove ourselves on something we don't really care about? I say we can this thread and go for a fking ride, regardless of what we ride or where. *This is a* *great forum site*, don't get me wrong, and *I'm not saying you shouldn't keep posting*, but it's people and threads like this that makes people rethink why we ride. Come on guys... come take a nice, long bike ride and try to shake this out of your ears.


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## wasea04 (Apr 2, 2007)

the basis of this whole thread is ghey! Why don't we all compare ourselves to the slopestyle riders hitting massive drops, and gaps on ht's and four inch travel rigs for example..........BOTTOM LINE: SOMEBODY IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE BETTER OR WORSE THAN YOU, WHO CARES, SOMEBODY'S GOING TO HAVE BETTER OR WORSE EQUIPMENT THAN YOU, WHO CARES, SOMEBODY MAY WEAR ARMOR, WHO CARES. ENJOY RIDING AND CUT IT OUT WITH WHAT BOILS DOWN TO A CASE OF "I'M MORE HARDCORE THAN YOU!"


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

wasea04 said:


> the basis of this whole thread is ghey! Why don't we all compare yourselves to the slopestyle riders hitting massive drops, and gaps on ht's and four inch travel rigs for example..........BOTTOM LINE: SOMEBODY IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE BETTER OR WORSE THAN YOU, WHO CARES, SOMEBODY'S GOING TO HAVE BETTER OR WORSE EQUIPMENT THAN YOU, WHO CARES, SOMEBODY MAY WEAR ARMOR, WHO CARES. ENJOY RIDING AND CUT IT OUT WITH WHAT BOILS DOWN TO A CASE OF "I'M MORE HARDCORE THAN YOU!"


Man, I totally dig the fact that you said "cut it out....." Seriously!


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## Skinner29er (Apr 12, 2009)

I took my daughters training wheels off today. She fell. What the f*)k? she doesnt deserve the bike! I'm taking it away in case some of you idiots call her a poser.


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

wasea04 said:


> the basis of this whole thread is ghey! Why don't we all compare ourselves to the slopestyle riders hitting massive drops, and gaps on ht's and four inch travel rigs for example..........BOTTOM LINE: SOMEBODY IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE BETTER OR WORSE THAN YOU, WHO CARES, SOMEBODY'S GOING TO HAVE BETTER OR WORSE EQUIPMENT THAN YOU, WHO CARES, SOMEBODY MAY WEAR ARMOR, WHO CARES. ENJOY RIDING AND CUT IT OUT WITH WHAT BOILS DOWN TO A CASE OF "I'M MORE HARDCORE THAN YOU!"


im more hardcore than you because i have ninja stealth moves that prevent me from using my caps lock key...


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

Skinner29er said:


> I took my daughters training wheels off today. She fell. What the f*)k? she doesnt deserve the bike! I'm taking it away in case some of you idiots call her a poser.


probably a good idea... my 6 yr old son fell off a bike a few times, and therefore doesnt have the same passion for biking as me...


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## luckynumber9 (Mar 7, 2009)

MTBR causes the problem the op speaks of. Bottom line


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

luckynumber9 said:


> MTBR causes the problem the op speaks of. Bottom line


i can agree with this... but so does society


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## Skinner29er (Apr 12, 2009)

I'm not to good at the sarcasm.....Although I tried
This thread is really about life. Just like the guy that buys a sports car but cant drive a stick. So what? I drive a beat up f150 but live in a beautiful house. Its all about the individual.
I am taking my son out tomorrow on his first "real" trail ride. he is 7 and loves the bike. I am buying him a full face helmet just because he has the inner stunt man in him. I will be on my 4" travel 29er, riding very slow. I don't care if I am a poser (poseur) Tomorrow its about him. 
I have as much fun as any hotshot on a cheap bike that ever lived.

I cant believe I read all these posts...it was like passing a bad wreck on the interstate...I couldnt stop reading it!!!! 
Why didnt the guy who started this thread stop and offer suggestions of how to ride down those hills? He may have met some cool people.


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## Skinner29er (Apr 12, 2009)

Luckynumber9:

"MTBR causes the problem the op speaks of. Bottom line"

You lost me....


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

VanHalen said:


> I just think of it this way, if you learn on a POS bike, you learn real skills and handling. The high dollar fancy bikes let you get away with a lot of stuff those people will never master without the bike.
> 
> I learned on a cheap hardtail, and was determined to become a good rider before getting a good bike. Just recently I built up my first FS bike, and my speed and abilities have quadrupled just over the last three rides. Where before I cleared 60-70% of the obstacles I now clear 90-100%, the bike makes it so easy, and I can get a lot more riding in before going to work than ever.


 Shhh, MTB's dirty little secret. :eekster:


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## The Yetti (Dec 22, 2005)

I think Im gona go huddle up in a lil ball.... I thought I had a mountain bike, meant for riding off road.... Now I need to find the trails for 4" travel or less hard tail.... but I need to run home and grab the SS rigid if I come across one of those trails.... And I guess if I come up on a trail that someone thinks is to much for either of these bikes, Ill just resort to trail violence and bikejack some all-mountain/free ride/DH.bike  Wow, what ever happened to just mountain biking and riding whatever bike you wanted to?


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## Ray Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

I probably look like a real dork riding a 5.5 inch bike on the rails and trails... but in my defense I am on my way to the single track.


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## Kneescar (Feb 26, 2009)

I'll try and explain what I meant in my post about growing into a bike. 

I have a pretty nice bike for a beginner. I did a lot of research at my local shops and also a ton of lurking here before deciding on what I wanted to buy. Do I really need a shock or even a headshock? Probably not. Do I need the components that came with my bike? Probably not. Do I really need a $1000 bike as a beginner? Probably not. Did I want to avoid having to start upgrading and spending more coin a couple months down the road? Hell yes I did. 

I have a bike thats probably more right now than what a noob like myself needs to get started but I'm happy that I got what I did. A month or two from now I'll be even happier when the extra coin I put into this pays off in trail performance. 

If I'm a poser right now - so be it.


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## Dekes (Jan 3, 2007)

I disagree with the threadstarter. 

Big bikes are nice and comfortable, they offer an upright position, which would be bad for the back on a hardtail bike, with plush long travel to soak up the bumps that would otherwise go through your spine. They will be slower and heavier than XC bikes but comfortwise they'll be so much better.

They don't ride the hardcore rocky steep trails? If you've got a family to take care of and other responsabilities, you might want to take it easy with big drops and jumps as getting injured simply ISN'T an option.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

kuna said:


> Thoughts?


I think you're a judgemental douche.

2 years ago, I'm the guy you describe. I own an Uzzi VPX, and couldn't ride it well to save my life. However, from 18 years of snowboarding, I was pretty sure where my riding was going to go. Today, I can clean every double black trail at Keystone, with the exception of big drops and 20+ ft gaps. I really doubt you could keep up with me on your smaller bike riding 20,000 + vertical feet of dh without breaking yourself or your bike. Not that I'd want to ride with you anyway...


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## luckynumber9 (Mar 7, 2009)

Skinner29er said:


> Luckynumber9:
> 
> "MTBR causes the problem the op speaks of. Bottom line"
> 
> You lost me....


lets see.... quick example i can makeup (note all of this is made up). I'm a freerider in fl. I like drops and jumps but freeriding in fl is few and far between and I'll end up riding a lot of trails. I'm deciding between the kona dawg and stinky. I make a post about this. Nomadjoe posts up saying the dawg is not a freeride bike and will break. stinkybob who lives in california by a freeride area with some big stuff posts up and says that his buddy snaped his dawg by the headtube on a relatively small huck. what he fails to mention is a small huck to him is 8ft and his buddy rides a freeride area daily. Now what happens is I buy the stinky. and I ride it on mostly trails and take it off the occasional 5 ft drop. when I should've bought the dawg. situations like this happen quite a bit im sure, as a result of exageration and miscommunication


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

The only thing LAME is letting other people ruin your riding.

Why would anyone get their knickers in a knot by judging other people against their own biased standard?

Life is too short to worry about what other people do on their bikes.


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## M-Train (Jan 12, 2008)

This reminds me of a song by The Descendents-.....it must be pretty "Cool To Be You."


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

I seriously doubt the people he's talking about are beginners. Maybe not top expert riders but no where near beginners either. Probably mid-high level.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

Razorfish said:


> I seriously doubt the people he's talking about are beginners. Maybe not top expert riders but no where near beginners either. Probably mid-high level.


You seriously doubt? Considering you were neither there, nor know who any of these "offenders" who were, you base this assumption on what? Not riding medium difficulty sections doesn't sound mid-high level to me at all. Or did they spend all that time and money and effort to get a nice bike, to take time off, to fly there, to ride halfway across a desert, all to just look at those sections to spite the OP?

As is the root of most of this threads trouble, assuming you know everything about everyone else... and none of you have anything else in this life to concern yourselves with?

What goes on in that screwey little head of yours, razorfish?

As for this thread, Flaunting excess is ugly, but jealousy of excess is uglier.


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

HotBlack said:


> You seriously doubt? Considering you were neither there, nor know who any of these "offenders" who were, you base this assumption on what? Not riding medium difficulty sections doesn't sound mid-high level to me at all. Or did they spend all that time and money and effort to get a nice bike, to take time off, to fly there, to ride halfway across a desert, all to just look at those sections to spite the OP?
> 
> As is the root of most of this threads trouble, assuming you know everything about everyone else... and none of you have anything else in this life to concern yourselves with?
> 
> ...


Don't get all excited there, bub. It's just and educated guess based on: 1) Would a beginner even know to get a high end bike. 2) Would a beginner even make it to the point to decide not to do the gnar. Maybe 1 but not several. So in conclusion to your unprovoked attack... eat me, biotch.


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## mountains (Apr 10, 2009)

Hmm, not sure why this thread is in passion.

Mods, can we move this to the pointless d1ckwagging and b1tching forum? Thanks


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## brettf (Jun 28, 2005)

mountains said:


> Hmm, not sure why this thread is in passion.
> 
> Mods, can we move this to the pointless d1ckwagging and b1tching forum? Thanks


I was thinking the assbagery forum, but either of the above sounds good.


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## RiceKilla (Apr 21, 2008)

Im sitting here wondering who the hell comes back from a trip like that, only to have their first post from the trip being about people on big travel mountain bikes who didn't "deserve" them and how it put a damper on their trip?

Next time I'll save you the horror and go in your place if you'd like, how does that sound?


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Coming back to this thread is like another bout of bipolar disease. Entertainment plus.

Just as a casual observer, it seems part of the issue here is that the level of what is considered normal has changed over time. The ante is up and more of us are out there. When every bike was suspensionless, there were still guys who rode everything I guess. When I was a kid we did what we wanted on a bike. No-one saw. Bikes broke and so did we. Now people see and record the evidence.

The kid with the greatest reputation in our area straightlined a 300m 15% grade, nailed a10m drop to flat, followed by another 10m drop to flat and only had 3 stitches to show for it. The first drop was to the roof of a passing car on the lower road and the second was to the lake (just). S**t happens when your your chain falls off and you only have back-pedal brakes! True story as I understand it, but I can't prove it. Nothing was ever recorded.

I digress. Body armour, full face helmets, rear suspension, hell even brakes are for sissies. The antithesis of our need for pain. Every MTBr has the right to question these woozies who can't cut it, especially those who have the scars to show. Suck it up and get hurt.

On the other hand, being older and sensible enough to now know my limits without self-indulgent mutilation, you must be a real dick to post such an insulting and immature thread


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

scrublover said:


> Wow. Somebody bought all the marketing speak for sure; hook, line, and sinker.


I guess he's never imagined (let alone seen) some of the XC trails we run.

Someone might post about wanting to go back to "classic NORBA geometry", while not knowing what it really means or what it is.


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## RCC (Mar 28, 2005)

I just got into mountain biking two months ago and just got a six inch rig,please don't talk about me


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## LeeL (Jan 12, 2004)

Classic MTBR Passion BS - two page dick-swinging passive-aggressive thread. Put up a ride report with beautiful pictures and it gets lost in all the turds.


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## trailbrain (Feb 22, 2005)

Seriously? who cares? Ride what you brung and who cares what others are riding or not riding or what pads they have on. Biking is fun and with others even better. Plain and simple.:thumbsup:


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## twwarch (Dec 5, 2007)

OK I skipped some of the garbage mid-thread and went to the end so if this is redundant I apologize.

I'm that guy: 6 months ago I was 40 years old and shopping for a mountain bike. My last mountain bike was an early 90's rigid, square-taper BB, cup & cone hubs kind of affair. (I still have it BTW). I rode the wheels off of it and then came marriage, career, and kids. In the last 15 years I've ridden exactly zero times. I'm that guy and I'm looking at hardtails 'cause that's what I can afford while the docs and attorneys in my neighborhood are riding full suspension and going on about their bikes. 
A used Nomad turns up at the LBS; it's a steal but still way more than I wanted to spend. What the heck, I jut turned 40, I deserve something cool so I buy it. It's built crazy heavy - Saint cranks, downhill bars and stem, Talas 36, the whole thing. Now I'm the beginner with the big bike.

Here's what happened: I ride it A LOT. Blowing through rocks and roots without getting tossed off line is a revelation. Pointing downhill is a hoot. I'm going faster and getting bigger. In one very good day 4' to flat. Remember I haven't been on a bike in 15 years.

Here's what else happened: I crash A LOT. That's where the big bike REALLY shines for an enthusiastic beginner. Because when my a$$ is in the dirt and I'm watching the bike cartwheel off the side of the trail without me it's nice to know that I can get back on and won't be walking out.

WW


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## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

Some astute poster in the NM Forum said something a while back:

"Who the hell are you to tell me to ..."

It's gotten lots of mileage as it puts the onus upon the questioner.

So, who the hell are you to tell me what kind of bike/accessories to ride/wear?

I can only assume that someone's got a rigid SS 29er and they're trying to justify their "fad" by harping on others.

// Gratuitous Fruita pic


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## crbrocket (Oct 13, 2008)

I'm proud to be a poser on a 6 inch of front/rear travel in FLORIDA. But then again, that bike doesn't crumble under my 275lbs like my hard tail did when I make mistakes.


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## yakswak (Apr 17, 2004)

you should just be happy they're spending the $$$ in this industry we all love to support.


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## HTR4EVR (Jun 15, 2007)

It comes down to education. If you are only doing recreational stuff then you don't need to buy such an expensive bike. But is better to have a good bike than expending time and money replacing parts and fixing cheap bikes. It is much better if you can build yours.


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## chick n da woods (May 23, 2006)

kuna said:


> Went down to the Fat Tire Festival in Fruita, and rode around Fruita, Grand Junction, and stopped in Moab. Love the technical riding and their drops are big, and I pushed myself to try new stuff and had a blast and came back with even better skills, but also came away disappointed...not at the trails, but the people with big bikes.
> 
> I can't tell you how many people had these big bikes, Nomads, Specialized, Intense, Titus with 6+ inches of travel, but couldn't or wouldn't ride the "hard" stuff. In fact the majority of those with these bikes wouldn't even consider it and they even had body armor all over and we aren't talking about the rental bike crowd here.
> 
> ...


a little late on responding but just have to say it....people like you bug. stop looking around at what other people can and cannot do. there are a gazillion reasons people ride what, where, how and why...but there is one thing i do know for sure...they are not doing it to impress you.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Vote #1 for twwarch.

LeeL, you've got to agree this is funny though. Almost a TR without pics. Looking forward to that Id and Mt TR........:thumbsup:


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

Incredibly long winded and probably jackass opinion:

I think it comes down to self assesment. People are really bad at it. That, coupled with a bad sales guy, means alot of people end up on the wrong bike. I work at a bike shop, and its one of the biggest problems I have with high end customers. I want to get them on the best bike possible for their needs, but its difficult to get them on the right bike frequently, because there is such an (unfortunate) association between "gnarly riding" and mountain biking skill. 

The bigger the jumps and drops, the smoother you are, the faster you go are what make you a better rider the thought goes, and so self image and self assessment frequently land people on the wrong bike. 

Its a lot easier to get people to think you go big if you're on a nomad then if you're on an epic. And people want to put out the image they're a good rider, whether or not you're willing to admit it on the forum. 

Also, as a side note, there are plenty of riders here on mtbr who, just like the guys buying the 6000 dollar nomads to look cool, are trendy in a different way, and always blither about how much they don't care what other people think (of course you do, its ingrained in humans, and if you didn't care then you'd have mental problems and probably be in a prison for criminal behavior) and how core they are and old school, and they're just about the ride man. They're just trendy in a different way. 

To me, its all about fun. What bike can you have the most fun out of on a given trail, and given your favorite type of riding. The real winners at the end of the day are the guys who can have the most intense experience, spiritual, emotional, whatever. The guys who can have the most fun on any given trail. And bike choice makes a huge difference in that. Its alot easier to have a great time, and have a spiritual experience on a 40 mile epic through the back country on a hardtail 29er with 80mm of travel then it is on a DH bike. 

I have a full blown 8x8 inch low slack and long DH bike, and I have a hardtail 29er XC bike with 80mm of travel. Its all about the right bike for the right occasion and ride type. People tend to think they're way gnarlier then they are (me included, I'm not racing at Sam Hill or Steve Peat speeds) and get the wrong bike for it.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

M-Train said:


> .....it must be pretty "Cool To Be You."


Yes, it is :thumbsup: I have led a pretty incredible life so far, thanks to the parents, fortunate circumstances and good luck. Couldn't ask for more.


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## otis24 (Apr 1, 2004)

HTR4EVR said:


> For me is not lame if those guys in big bikes don't want to ride some section.But it is very lame when they try to fix the trail instead of working on their skills...


Those folks make me wanna pull my hair out!


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## otis24 (Apr 1, 2004)

Sometimes I imagine the bike has a soul or spirit. Some are luckier than others and get riders who ride them for what they were disigned for. Those are happy bikes like a race horse running or a husky pulling. For example - right now my road bike is unhappy, it's been hanging from the ceiling in my garage for a month. It's a low end model and likes long slow rides with some intervals thrown in. My mountain bike is somewhat happy but yearning for more. It's a nice bike that I ride a lot and beat the hell out of, but my skills are not likely to surpass it. Now, are those big bikes happy bikes?


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## HTR4EVR (Jun 15, 2007)

notaknob said:


> Some astute poster in the NM Forum said something a while back:
> 
> "Who the hell are you to tell me to ..."
> 
> ...


Awesome shot. There is no posers here baby...


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## chick n da woods (May 23, 2006)

William42 said:


> Also, as a side note, there are plenty of riders here on mtbr who, just like the guys buying the 6000 dollar nomads to look cool, are trendy in a different way, and always blither about how much they don't care what other people think (of course you do, its ingrained in humans, and if you didn't care then you'd have mental problems and probably be in a prison for criminal behavior) and how core they are and old school, and they're just about the ride man. They're just trendy in a different way.


well here is my new $6000 nomad...what do you think? didn't i get a good deal??

tell me tell me please...I NEED YOUR VALIDATION BEFORE I CAN CONTINUE WITH LIFE because without it I AM NOT HUMAN...


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## HTR4EVR (Jun 15, 2007)

Love it, if I ever buy a FS is going to be a Nomad...


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

chick n da woods said:


> well here is my new $6000 nomad...what do you think? didn't i get a good deal??
> 
> tell me tell me please...I NEED YOUR VALIDATION BEFORE I CAN CONTINUE WITH LIFE because without it I AM NOT HUMAN...


I'm sorry you misunderstood the point of my post entirely. Maybe upon further readings you'll get it.

hint: relax a little bit, go out and have the best time on any given ride, and you're a winner. Some people can do it with cheapo bikes, some people need to be faster and have an ego trip (like myself), some people use expensive bikes (like myself) but as long as you're having the best time possible to have, you're winning.

Anyway, consider your life on hold, cause I'm not validating somebodies life who flies off the handle to easily upon a misinterpreted internet post. I want to see proof of internet therapy sessions  . Check out 4chan.org to alleviate your stress levels, it should put things in perspective.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

So Otis, that was 1 part THC, 2 parts ETOH and 2 parts psilocibin? 

My happy bike broke a stack of my ribs 4 weeks ago and she is going to pay tomorrow


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

Dekes said:


> They don't ride the hardcore rocky steep trails? If you've got a family to take care of and other responsabilities, you might want to take it easy with big drops and jumps as getting injured simply ISN'T an option.


AMEN to that!


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

crbrocket said:


> I'm proud to be a poser on a 6 inch of front/rear travel in FLORIDA.


They have hills in Florida?


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## ric426 (Jul 13, 2007)

Are the rules for what kind of bike you have to use on which trails while wearing what clothing posted somewhere? What about the suspension travel limits for XC, Trail, AM, FR, or DH? How much dues do you have to pay before you can ride a ___ bike or wear ___? I really need to find out this stuff so I know which rules I'm breaking and which groups I'm not fitting in with when I ride. Is there a points system to tally up all my violations when I naively just go and ride my bike in the woods with a smile on my face?

See, when I started riding, there weren't all these rules and it was actually kinda nice when you'd come across another rider. It's pretty sad that an activity that started out as a way to get around a lot of rules now has so many of it's own.

I'm *so* not cool now. I ride a 5" travel bike with grip shifters, riser bars and bar ends on the same XC trails I used to ride on a hard tail with rigid forks. Maybe if I'd had that 5" of suspension 20 years ago I wouldn't be so beat up now that it's the only bike I *can* ride off road. Maybe those noobs and poseurs are on to something...

Lighten up people, you take this stuff *way* too seriously. Life's too short to be worrying about what someone else is riding or wearing. Ride your bike.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Lame indeed!


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## deftones156 (Sep 12, 2008)

In addition to all the responses so far about people being able to ride whatever the F they want (I just think it's cool that people are out riding as long as there's no attitude attached!  ), did you ever stop to consider that many people can only afford one bike? So, they get the bike that they want that has the features that they want and has the travel that they want. They don't necessarily look at their local trails and say "Gee, it's pretty flat, so I guess I have to get a hardtail because I know I'll never ride ANY OTHER TRAILS OTHER THAN THIS ONE. Ever."

I ride a 5" FS trail bike. Do I always need 5" of suspension? Nope. Is it perfect other times? You bet. Will I ever pass up some smooth, sweeping singletrack because a HT or rigid would be faster or "better" on it? Hell no!


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

deftones156 said:


> In addition to all the responses so far about people being able to ride whatever the F they want (I just think it's cool that people are out riding as long as there's no attitude attached!  ), did you ever stop to consider that many people can only afford one bike? So, they get the bike that they want that has the features that they want and has the travel that they want. They don't necessarily look at their local trails and say "Gee, it's pretty flat, so I guess I have to get a hardtail because I know I'll never ride ANY OTHER TRAILS OTHER THAN THIS ONE. Ever."
> 
> I ride a 5" FS trail bike. Do I always need 5" of suspension? Nope. Is it perfect other times? You bet. Will I ever pass up some smooth, sweeping singletrack because a HT or rigid would be faster or "better" on it? Hell no!


+1 on that!
I use my 5" for for a single track and 7 mile descent, then cruise into the village to get a bite or rent videos.


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## otis24 (Apr 1, 2004)

Ridnparadise said:


> So Otis, that was 1 part THC, 2 parts ETOH and 2 parts psilocibin?
> 
> My happy bike broke a stack of my ribs 4 weeks ago and she is going to pay tomorrow


Sometimes you just gotta ask yourself "Is my bike a happy bike" and take appropriate action.


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## hitek79 (Oct 24, 2008)

Man, the OP would hate me. I'm a long way from a great rider, but I love each of my bikes, and they all serve me perfectly. I can definitely say I have WAY more fun on my rides than he does though, because I could care less what everyone else is riding.


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## troyer2112 (Mar 31, 2008)

you sucked when you first started and if you didnt then you are the man. im sure the pros could make you look like a beginner and would you want them to say the same? 
im proud of most peoples responses on this thread. you are like the phish crowd. selfish LAME and inconsiderate!!!!!!!


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## GreenLightGo (Oct 24, 2006)

nachomc said:


> I just built up a rigid 29'er SS. I am amazed at how much I like rigid.


The simplicity and fun factor grow on you!


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## cesper (Jul 8, 2008)

I saw a bumper-sticker a few years that has stuck with me. It says....

Small minds discuss people.
Average minds discuss things.
Great minds discuss ideas.

I also saw a guy at the trails once on a BEACH CRUISER with a coaster brake! the smile on his face was the biggest I've ever seen.


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

after riding up one of the AM trails that most ride down, i can say once we got to the top and then went down, my XC bike handles the rock gardens much better than my AM used to...


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## treetop (May 8, 2009)

[oops]


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## treetop (May 8, 2009)

yakswak said:


> you should just be happy they're spending the $$$ in this industry we all love to support.


+1.

First post, but I've been reading here for a while.

The opening post reminded me a lot of parallels in many other sports and activities I've been involved with in my lifetime. I think "upgraditus" is something a lot of people are guilty of, and I've even been guilty of it myself in other sports.

I used to shoot competitively, in a sport called 3-gun. For those not familiar with it, it combines rifle, shotgun and handgun matches- some separate courses and some combined. Something I would see VERY often in matches was guys wearing all the fancy highspeed gear, with their firearms completely decked out with all the forum boner parts and whatever accessories were featured in the latest issues of the gun mags. 9 times out of 10 they were being beaten by guys with basic weapons and a lot of practice. There was always justification for why they didn't score well, usually blaming equipment they weren't used to or were using incorrectly. 
People make fun of those guys, behind their backs.

I see it at the gym- the guy decked out in gloves, straps, weight belt, Muscletech gym bag, Met-RX shirt, designer water bottle with some kind of fancy workout drink in it, logging his sets and timing his breaks according to whatever Musclemag suggests this particular month. The same guy that outside of the gym you'd never know he lifted a weight in his life by looking at him.
People make fun of that guy, behind his back.

I see it with my car friends, my motorcycle friends, and my powerboat friends- they're so easily caught up in "the look" and upgraditus that they lose sight of what originally brought them enjoyment. Maybe it's because they've upgraded something way past the point of their abilities (a newb with a turbo Hayabusa comes to mind), maybe it's because they've dropped so much money into their toy that they don't want to risk damaging it (a guy with a 1200 horsepower Supra comes to mind), maybe they just like the attention of having something people are envious of more than they actually enjoy their chosen sport or activity. Whatever the reason, it seems silly to me but if they're happy then so be it.
But people make fun of those guys too, behind their backs.

Basically what I see in so many aspects of life, is people trying to skip the basics and take a shortcut to the top, then get burned out when it doesn't happen. The entire learning process is the fun part for me, the journey of starting with something basic and upgrading my equipment's limitations as my skills increase to outgrow them. Cesper's comment above about the guy with the Beach Cruiser is perfect- someone enjoying the spirit of the sport without getting wrapped up in the hype or the competitiveness of gear over skill, or equipment over fun.

I think my long winded point is that in every sport or activity that any of us partake in, there are other people with a different view of which part of the "sport" is of most importance. BUT, we're kind of all in this together- we may have different reasons for the love but we can all share the same love. *And we're capable of accepting and encouraging other people rather than trying to break them down.* 
Those guys with the fancy shiny big bikes just hanging out watching other riders, rather than pushing their own abilities, for whatever reason they choose to do that, are still our allies. They're not the enemy. We can be reasonably confident that those aren't the people trying to shut down trails and increase legislation against the things we enjoy. However different they may be from you, or from me, I'd much rather throw them a nod or a smile. We're all in this together.


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## knives out (Nov 23, 2007)

I'm never afraid to walk something I'm not comfortable with. You know why? Because I'm not concerned with the opinions of complete strangers. I'd rather swallow my own pride than bounce off a cliff to my own demise simply because I was too much of a tool to swallow my own pride. 

It's easy to sit back and laugh at those we don't take the time to know or understand.
Next time you're out riding and you see some guys and/or gals struggling with a section, maybe instead of riding by with your nose up in the air, stop and give 'em some brotherly support. Who knows... you might actually leave with some new friends which is a much better way to go through life. 

Speaking of which, I'm going to be in Fruita in a few weeks. If anyone wants to ride with a dude who's comfortable with how much he sucks at mountain biking, I'm always up for some rides and beers.


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## otis24 (Apr 1, 2004)

William42 said:


> I think it comes down to self assesment. People are really bad at it. That, coupled with a bad sales guy, means alot of people end up on the wrong bike. I work at a bike shop, and its one of the biggest problems I have with high end customers. I want to get them on the best bike possible for their needs, but its difficult to get them on the right bike frequently, because there is such an (unfortunate) association between "gnarly riding" and mountain biking skill.
> 
> The bigger the jumps and drops, the smoother you are, the faster you go are what make you a better rider the thought goes, and so self image and self assessment frequently land people on the wrong bike.
> 
> ...


I'm a chef. The same stuff goes on in cooking. When I was in Culinary school upgradeitis was rampant. I use low end stamped knives. I'm really fond of my stamped Japanese santuko knife that I paid $13 for. I replace it once a year. I could buy a hand made one for $300 and it would probably last a very long time. However, I'm cheap. I think in cooking you can really tell the poser when they have the $100+ knife and it's dull. That does annoy me. You buy this item that someone apprenticed for years to learn to make and you don't even have the respect to maintain it.

People buy stuff for all kinds of reasons and other people persive those purchases in all kinds of ways. That's what makes this thread so interesting. I've been reading along trying to figure out why I'm still reading.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

mountain_bomber156 said:


> GROW SOME BALLS!


Grow up, dude...

I don't care what others ride. If they have a better bike than me, cool. If they use it to their full capacity or not, that's none of my biz.

I think I'm easily tagged as a poser, but I grew my balls when my time was and I grew up enough to go past the time I had to demonstrate anything to anyone but myself, at least on a bike (in my life, I have to demonstrate my abilities to my whomever my employer is, my family and myself) or to care for whatever others ride or ride like.


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## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

Yep, super lame that people judge others so harshly. I had one person say that the fact that they had such a great bike wasn't a reflection on what a great rider they were, but rather, how good they were at their job.


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## BIG brother (May 8, 2009)

hitek79 said:


> I can definitely say I have WAY more fun on my rides than he does though, because I could care less what everyone else is riding.


That's just as stupid as the OP's post.

How can you possibly know that you "have WAY more fun on my rides than he does" ????


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## carnage (Nov 17, 2005)

So would me wanting to rock a Jamis Parker or Heckler even though I live in Tampa put me in the category of poser? 

For the record, I already ride everything here on my $100 HT


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## southvike (Dec 30, 2006)

*Exposing some real posers&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.*

:yikes:


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## cesper (Jul 8, 2008)

I'm sure even florida has something worthy of a long-travel bike. My mindset is to not buy the latest and greatest anyways, the fear of breaking an expensive bike is always in the back of my head. 

I "splurged" with my Rocky Mtn. Slayer 50, and still I got it for about 2 grand. This is after 9 years of riding. I also agree with Warp. The last 3 years I raced DH with my buddies for fun. I'll do some drops and jumps, and always placed pretty well in sport category, but I was real hard on myself for not advancing as quickly as some friends were with lesser experience. In fact, the first year racing I would say I was the most "gnar" 

But hey, I realized I'm riding for myself, and that has kept me in the sport that I want to be in. The Mt. Biking world has a tiny amount of posers compared to the countless amounts of hobbies out there. At least they're pedaling it.


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)




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