# Advice Needed- Upgrade or Replace Bike?



## blandy (Mar 9, 2020)

Hello All,

I've got a 2013 Intense Hard Eddie (carbon hardtail) 29er. I like the bike, but, it's in need of some maintenance, and I'm wondering if the cost of upgrading is justified, rather than selling the bike and updating it to something newer. 

The bike has Avid XX brakes- and they are shot. I've tried bleeding, new pads, etc etc- they are worn and they need to be replaced. 

The bike also is a 2x10- which doesn't necessarily bother me- but, I hate the Avid XX shifters (paired with xx front and x9 rear)- they are super awkward to shift (don't ever use the smaller chainring-so I'm just shifting on the right-hand side). I'd pay just to get a Shimano shifter again.

The bike has stock aluminum rims- nothing too special for hub/wheelset. 

While I do live in a populated area with what seems like an ample supply of used bikes- I do know there is a shortage right now. I'm a fan of secondhand bike acquisition (aka cheap/frugal), and 56 cm/large bike frames seem to be in abundance. 

Is it worth it to throw on new brakes, convert to a 1 by xx, and try to find some nicer aluminum/carbon rims....or would that $$$ in parts/labor alone be better used to help justify a different bike? 

Again- I like this bike (minus the ugly decals), it's light and fast (and if I could ever find single-speed dropouts- a contender for a 1x1). I'd stick w/ hardtail if I were to upgrade to another bike.

Anybody who is smarter/more knowledgeable than me willing to share some advice? Thank you thank you!


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

It probably has a pretty steep head angle.
I would sell and buy a slacker bike, you will really like it better

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


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## blandy (Mar 9, 2020)

rod9301 said:


> It probably has a pretty steep head angle.
> I would sell and buy a slacker bike, you will really like it better
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


Thank you- I appreciate the advice. 

Does 70.5 degrees look/sound right (Taken from the manual)? What are the new bike running for their angle?


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

Any where from 67 down to 63 degrees. The Trek Roscoe HT (similar to your bike) has a 65 degree HTA. The slacker they are, the more stable they feel on the downhills. I think when they get down to 64 or 63 degrees, the front wheel noticeably flops side to side when climbing. You get used to it, but it's there. You'll see very low (very slack) HTA on downhill centric bikes.


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## SoDakSooner (Nov 23, 2005)

Pretty bike. I'd definitely keep in the stable. Hard to find parts right now. but I'd eventually convert to 1x, if you can't find the ss parts. Might be able to throw an angleset in there and slacken a little bit. I wouldn't throw a ton of money at it but it'd be a fun one to tinker with as time and money allow. Shimano brakes kill Sram ones IMO (and yes everything else I have on my current ride is SRAM Eagle.) Lighten it up a bit. I'll bet it is a rocket.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

If it is what you are used to, there is no harm in continuing to ride it with some updates. However, parts are hard to find these days so you may have better luck buying a complete replacement bike.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

The fact that you are asking this question suggests that you don't love the bike, or are at least over it. That's a racy geometry. If the geometry works well for you then it might be worth upgrading. If a modern slacker bike would suit your riding better, it may be time to move it on.


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## blandy (Mar 9, 2020)

Tall BMX'r said:


> Any where from 67 down to 63 degrees. The Trek Roscoe HT (similar to your bike) has a 65 degree HTA. The slacker they are, the more stable they feel on the downhills. I think when they get down to 64 or 63 degrees, the front wheel noticeably flops side to side when climbing. You get used to it, but it's there. You'll see very low (very slack) HTA on downhill centric bikes.


Thank you!

Luckily the land is pretty flat here in Minnesota- not a ton of hills. I'd be intrigued to see what riding on something slacker would feel like. For me, it's mostly singletrack w/ very few obstacles.


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## blandy (Mar 9, 2020)

SoDakSooner said:


> Pretty bike. I'd definitely keep in the stable. Hard to find parts right now. but I'd eventually convert to 1x, if you can't find the ss parts. Might be able to throw an angleset in there and slacken a little bit. I wouldn't throw a ton of money at it but it'd be a fun one to tinker with as time and money allow. Shimano brakes kill Sram ones IMO (and yes everything else I have on my current ride is SRAM Eagle.) Lighten it up a bit. I'll bet it is a rocket.


Thanks- I've got a rigid fork for it as well, which is 18.x lbs when setup fully rigid. I like riding at faster speeds on singletrack (and this bike has performed well), minus the braking and shifting.

I have friends riding Shimano brakes on their MTB, night and day difference in the feel from the old spongy AVID's.

I like the idea of dropping even more weight on this rig!


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## kevine1785 (Mar 29, 2021)

I was in the same boat as you.. I have a 2012 GT Zaskar 29er.. same 70.5 degree headtube angle.. I decided to keep it, swapped on a carbon rigid fork, and converted to 1x11... I love riding the bike on fire roads and some pretty tame single track, and went out and bought a new full suspension XC bike for anything more technical. Glad I kept my old bike as its a fun round-town bike.


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## blandy (Mar 9, 2020)

sgltrak said:


> If it is what you are used to, there is no harm in continuing to ride it with some updates. However, parts are hard to find these days so you may have better luck buying a complete replacement bike.


I'm afraid to know the cost of all the parts/labor to get it up to snuff!


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## blandy (Mar 9, 2020)

kevine1785 said:


> I was in the same boat as you.. I have a 2012 GT Zaskar 29er.. same 70.5 degree headtube angle.. I decided to keep it, swapped on a carbon rigid fork, and converted to 1x11... I love riding the bike on fire roads and some pretty tame single track, and went out and bought a new full suspension XC bike for anything more technical. Glad I kept my old bike as its a fun round-town bike.


See- now this is solid advice! Upgrade the bike and then also get a new full suspension. ha. 

I think the full suspension is going to be an inevitable future purchase- but something about getting close to sub 20 lbs always intrigues me though. 

Do you notice a pretty big difference on the ride quality between the 2? Slacker geo make a big difference in the feel?


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## dompedro3 (Jan 26, 2004)

Why not just rent/borrow a bike with slacker angles. See if you can feel the difference. 
If you really want to get into the mountain biking spirit you can spend money on upgrading it and buy a new bike. 
Angleset can get you to 68.5 degree head angle - $100-200
1x drivetrain can get rid of front der - $150+
brakes to fix old ones - $250
Wider tires - $120
New Wheels - $500-$1000
dropper seatpost - $150
New Full suspension bike (optional) - $3000

So for anywhere from $1350 - $4900 and you can refresh your bike.


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## blandy (Mar 9, 2020)

BadgerOne said:


> The fact that you are asking this question suggests that you don't love the bike, or are at least over it. That's a racy geometry. If the geometry works well for you then it might be worth upgrading. If a modern slacker bike would suit your riding better, it may be time to move it on.





dompedro3 said:


> Why not just rent/borrow a bike with slacker angles. See if you can feel the difference.
> If you really want to get into the mountain biking spirit you can spend money on upgrading it and buy a new bike.
> Angleset can get you to 68.5 degree head angle - $100-200
> 1x drivetrain can get rid of front der - $150+
> ...


I appreciate the breakdown on the prices, that's super helpful. I'm less concerned with comfort and "squish" and would rather have something that is responsive and as quick as I can pedal. 

Brakes and shifter are my biggest complaints, so, maybe I'll start w/ that. But, then do I upgrade the shifter to accommodate a bigger range (1x12/12) and go with a new rear wheel, or, keep it a 2x10 and spend that money on a carbon (older) wheel. Hmmm.....


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## Nick_M (Jan 16, 2015)

blandy said:


> I've got a 2013 Intense Hard Eddie (carbon hardtail) 29er. I like the bike, but, it's in need of some maintenance, and I'm wondering if the cost of upgrading is justified, rather than selling the bike and updating it to something newer.



The proper order should be:
1. Buy new bike
2. Sell Old one or keep it 

Selling old bike first will put you in position without a bike for uncertain timeframe due to supply issues across industry;
Bikes changes drastically from 2013, new bike will have better performance and will be more enjoyable to ride;


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

I don't see the value in spending a ton of $$$ on a new wheelset. What is the advantage? You can run a 12 speed drivetrain on your current hub. 

Brakes and drivetrain are easy upgrades...

And, I agree with Nick_M, although my modus operandi is to never sell...always good to have an extra bike laying around


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## looks easy from here (Apr 16, 2019)

What's your budget?


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## Calsun (May 12, 2021)

I have a very old and heavy bike with 2x drivetrain, V-brakes, and 26 inch wheels. I recently put on new brakes and new tires and I plan to keep it. There are times when I cannot be sure the bike would not get stolen and the loss of this one would not cause me any grief should that happen.


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

I’m in the buy new keep old camp. Modern bike are better than ever, from parts to frame geo. I recently moved from a 2002 hardtail to a 2021 Epic Evo. I cannot believe I didn’t do it sooner, I just didn’t realize how good new bikes are. A short travel bike sounds perfect for your terrain, something in the “down country” category. They are still efficient so they respond like an xc bike but give enough comfort for all day rides over rocks and roots. The geo of most dc bikes is perfect, IMO, for flatter or rolling trails.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Here in the US Costco is selling a bike online. Intense 951 XC. https://intense951.com/products/951-series-xc . It's $3249 on the Costco site when it comes in stock. Right now the trail version is in stock. https://www.costco.com/intense-951-trail-bike.product.100692028.html The XC model will be available periodically. Lght, carbon frame. A good buy.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

dompedro3 said:


> Why not just rent/borrow a bike with slacker angles. See if you can feel the difference.
> If you really want to get into the mountain biking spirit you can spend money on upgrading it and buy a new bike.
> Angleset can get you to 68.5 degree head angle - $100-200
> 1x drivetrain can get rid of front der - $150+
> ...


Looks like that bike uses and integrated headset, so no angleset. If it were me, I would sell it while the market for older bikes is hot and keep my eye out for a lightly used Ibis DV9, Santa Cruz Highball 29, or Pivot Les. It would be about the same cost as upgrading, but also get newer geometry and a dropper.


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## shadowsports (May 10, 2009)

eb1888 said:


> Here in the US Costco is selling a bike online. Intense 951 XC. https://intense951.com/products/951-series-xc . It's $3249 on the Costco site when it comes in stock. Right now the trail version is in stock. https://www.costco.com/intense-951-trail-bike.product.100692028.html The XC model will be available periodically. Lght, carbon frame. A good buy.


I'm a 951 *trail* fan. 31lbs with 150/140mm travel. 4p brakes. While the NX group set is entry level, these bikes overall are a great value. I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I wanted a new carbon frame bike in 2-3 days.


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## eri (Sep 4, 2012)

Like dompedro3 said: if you need it more slack then buy a cane creek angleset - will give you another degree. My beloved bike was 69.5 degrees originally, I swapped the 120 fork for a 140 and its terrific at ~68.5. Don't stress this.

You hate the brakes? So do I. I hate avid brakes. Buy new brakes and shifters. I like the shimano because it uses mineral oil. 10 speed is fine, don't worry about these people telling you to get a new bike. Frame is nice, feel free to upgrade that bike. Folks like to make a big deal about all the new stuff, 11-12 speeds, but really you're investing in more expensive cassette and chain and very little benefit. Chill and ride. Wear the new parts out.

I don't know where you ride but fs bikes here in the pnw take a lot more maintenance. I'm a big fan of the singlespeed hardtail.

If the picture shows the same parts as your bike: I thought the stans crest rims were flexy and a bit too narrow for a wider tire. I run a 2.35 maxxis dhf in front and its fantastic, a vittoria mezcal 2.35 in the rear (that measures smaller).

So: Only thing that might hold me back from upgrading your bike is if it won't fit the tire I like on the back.


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## MatLax00 (Jun 13, 2020)

1x conversion can be done cheaply, I just bought a cassette, front ring, chain guide and derailleur dropper from AliExpress and I can't complain, good way to try it and to wait for supply issues to calm down.

Heck, you could switch to a Microshift 8 speeds 12-46 and put a 30 up front if you wanted to get rid of your shifter too!

Brakes can be rebuilt or you could just find some used one, there's really no reason they should be "worn out" to the point of no return though...

As for needing more slack, well you're used to riding your bike so you know if you like how it handles or not. My friend tried riding bikes slacker than his 2015 x caliber and he hated it because he's not much of a climber to begin with, the slacker angle made things worse... So go rent a couple of bikes to see what you like if you decide to go the "new bike" route.


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## ugadawg (Jun 27, 2020)

I was in the same position as you are a few months ago. I had an Orbea Alma with a 70.5 head angle. I decided to sell it and upgrade to a Honzo. I’m happy with my decision. The Honzo is still easy to maneuver, but it feels so much more stable going down hill. The used market is so good that the diff to get the Honzo was cheaper than upgrading my old bike.


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

I was in a similar boat with my 2016 HT ... Needed new rims, hubs, brakes and wanted to convert to 1x drivetrain. I paid $1600 for it, so the upgrades I wanted to do would've cost more than half of that. Did it anyway though and glad I did. Bike runs exactly how I like it, and the frame itself is in good shape.

And both the drivetrain and brakes weren't a complete replacement, so I saved some money there.


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## blandy (Mar 9, 2020)

Nick_M said:


> The proper order should be:
> 1. Buy new bike
> 2. Sell Old one or keep it
> 
> ...


Thank you!


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## blandy (Mar 9, 2020)

baker said:


> I don't see the value in spending a ton of $$$ on a new wheelset. What is the advantage? You can run a 12 speed drivetrain on your current hub.
> 
> Brakes and drivetrain are easy upgrades...
> 
> And, I agree with Nick_M, although my modus operandi is to never sell...always good to have an extra bike laying around


I appreciate the advice, start w/ the simple things (brakes and drivetrain) and go from there.


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## blandy (Mar 9, 2020)

Zguitar71 said:


> I’m in the buy new keep old camp. Modern bike are better than ever, from parts to frame geo. I recently moved from a 2002 hardtail to a 2021 Epic Evo. I cannot believe I didn’t do it sooner, I just didn’t realize how good new bikes are. A short travel bike sounds perfect for your terrain, something in the “down country” category. They are still efficient so they respond like an xc bike but give enough comfort for all day rides over rocks and roots. The geo of most dc bikes is perfect, IMO, for flatter or rolling trails.


Thank you for the advice, I've never heard of "down country" before. These do look like they are exactly what I'm looking for though.


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## blandy (Mar 9, 2020)

eb1888 said:


> Here in the US Costco is selling a bike online. Intense 951 XC. https://intense951.com/products/951-series-xc. It's $3249 on the Costco site when it comes in stock. Right now the trail version is in stock. https://www.costco.com/intense-951-trail-bike.product.100692028.html The XC model will be available periodically. Lght, carbon frame. A good buy.


Thank you so much for these links. I've chatted w/ Intense about their Primer before ( https://intensecycles.com/products/2021-primer-29), but, it was out of my price range. The 951 series is interesting (and in stock).....it might be time to put out some feelers on interest in my bike in the local area.


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## blandy (Mar 9, 2020)

Cary said:


> Looks like that bike uses and integrated headset, so no angleset. If it were me, I would sell it while the market for older bikes is hot and keep my eye out for a lightly used Ibis DV9, Santa Cruz Highball 29, or Pivot Les. It would be about the same cost as upgrading, but also get newer geometry and a dropper.


The used market is indeed hot right now- perhaps I'll see what I could get from this rig and start doing some research on the models you mentioned.


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## blandy (Mar 9, 2020)

shadowsports said:


> I'm a 951 *trail* fan. 31lbs with 150/140mm travel. 4p brakes. While the NX group set is entry level, these bikes overall are a great value. I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I wanted a new carbon frame bike in 2-3 days.


Thank you- I've enjoyed this Intense bike- and the 951 trail does seem like what I'm after!


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## blandy (Mar 9, 2020)

eri said:


> Like dompedro3 said: if you need it more slack then buy a cane creek angleset - will give you another degree. My beloved bike was 69.5 degrees originally, I swapped the 120 fork for a 140 and its terrific at ~68.5. Don't stress this.
> 
> You hate the brakes? So do I. I hate avid brakes. Buy new brakes and shifters. I like the shimano because it uses mineral oil. 10 speed is fine, don't worry about these people telling you to get a new bike. Frame is nice, feel free to upgrade that bike. Folks like to make a big deal about all the new stuff, 11-12 speeds, but really you're investing in more expensive cassette and chain and very little benefit. Chill and ride. Wear the new parts out.
> 
> ...


Great Advice- thank you for taking the time to share this info. I bet throwing on new brakes/shifter would make it feel like a new bike again. 

Pretty flat here, nothing to crazy, I like to maintain speed and keep pedaling through the trails. Nothing too technical- and I've not noticed the need for rear suspension/dropper post (ignorance is bliss?. 

Same rims as pictured- and I agree, something with a bit more bite is great for the sandy areas around here. 

Again- thank you!


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

blandy said:


> Great Advice- thank you for taking the time to share this info. I bet throwing on new brakes/shifter would make it feel like a new bike again.
> 
> Pretty flat here, nothing to crazy, I like to maintain speed and keep pedaling through the trails. Nothing too technical- and I've not noticed the need for rear suspension/dropper post (ignorance is bliss?.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind your bike has an integrated headset, so an angleset is not an option.


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## dompedro3 (Jan 26, 2004)

Cary said:


> Keep in mind your bike has an integrated headset, so an angleset is not an option.


Mist IS headsets dont have angle sets available, but 9point 8 does. Unfortunately i think it only works with is41 top cup, and I think the hard eddie has an is42, maybe email 9point8 if interested? 








9point8 | Dropper Seatposts, Clamps, Remotes, and More Bike Components


9point8 provides world-class dropper seatposts, built for users searching for performance and reliability in their bike components.




www.9point8.ca





Or you can put a 120mm fork on it and further slacken the seat tube, raise the bb, but slack out the front end a bit.


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## kevine1785 (Mar 29, 2021)

blandy said:


> See- now this is solid advice! Upgrade the bike and then also get a new full suspension. ha.
> 
> I think the full suspension is going to be an inevitable future purchase- but something about getting close to sub 20 lbs always intrigues me though.
> 
> Do you notice a pretty big difference on the ride quality between the 2? Slacker geo make a big difference in the feel?


In terms of going slacker, full suspension vs riding a rigid bike with a 70 degree headtube, there is a world of difference. My rigid bike is a mile munching fire road machine. I have 2 KOM's on some climbs that require fitness and not much more. It is essentially my "road" bike. I live by a TON of fire roads, and for fitness I ride them regularly, I am scared to ride on the actual road as cars + phone distractions = injured or dead cyclists.
As for my full suspension, I still have an XC focused bike (Cannondale Scalpel), but with a more modern geometry (slacker headtube, steeper seat tube, longer reach, shorter chainstay etc...) its a fundamentally better bike. It climbs technical terrain like a goat, and with a dropper post, I can descend tricky slopes with confidence that I wont get injured. I ride my FS most of the time, and its more fun. I am glad I kept my hard tail, but if my garage was on fire, you better believe its my FS I am grabbing first.


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