# Shimano E7000 vs. E8000



## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Fezzari is the first brand I have seen that lists the Shimano E7000 system for a lower end eMTB. I've looked all over for a detailed description of the salient differences between the E7000 and E8000. Everything is just a regurgitation of the spec sheet, saying the E7000 is slightly smaller and lighter, but uses the same frame mount, has a B/W display and different handlebar controls, and puts out 60Nm of torque vs. 70Nm. They use the same batteries. 

The E7000 weight could simply be different packaging of the case, the display and controls are actually better IMHO, and the power difference could just be firmware. Does anyone know if the actual motor and gear assemblies inside the E7000 are identical to E8000?

Has anyone found a ride review that compares the two systems?


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## El Geezer (May 31, 2016)

*Facts Are Sparse and Hard to Come By*

I just ordered a very nice looking HAL e29 full suspension e-mtb from Bikes Direct. This bike is equipped with a Shimano KDU e6100M drive train rated at 60Nm which I am quite certain is sufficient for me on mountain bike trails. Shimano positions this unit as being for "city bikes" or "trekking bikes," but the unit is sealed and doesn't have a clue what kind of bike it is installed on. Shimano, to the best of my ability to discover, lists the weight of the STEPS e8000 "motor" (whatever that includes) at 2.8 kg. The e6100M motor is described by Shimano as being "lighter" at a weight of 2.88 kg. That is the current state of information as far as I can discover, and it is unhelpful to say the least. Shimano says nothing about the internals of either unit.

For what it may be worth, my riding partner has a full sus e-mtb with a STEPS e8000 drive train. He is a big guy (6' - 5", 205#), and he finds the e8000 power in BOOST mode and lowest (46T) gear to be difficult to control, so he only uses BOOST mode with the 37T or 32T rear sprockets. An expert rider might be able to handle the full torque available at the rear wheel, but it is definitely a handful. I weigh 175#, and my partner's experience is what convinced me that 60Nm would be plenty of power for me. We love technical trails, but we don't attempt racing speeds.

For what it is worth, the Fezzari Wire Peak series looks very nice to me, and the Comp model is equipped with the e7000 drive train. The Bikes Direct HAL e29 has Recon RL forks with 120mm of travel and rather skinny 29" tires, but it will arrive on your doorstep for at least $900 less than the Wire Peak Comp if that holds any interest for you. Getting a solidly built and nicely equipped e-mtb to the door for $2700 turned out to be an offer I couldn't refuse.

El Geezer



honkinunit said:


> Fezzari is the first brand I have seen that lists the Shimano E7000 system for a lower end eMTB. I've looked all over for a detailed description of the salient differences between the E7000 and E8000. Everything is just a regurgitation of the spec sheet, saying the E7000 is slightly smaller and lighter, but uses the same frame mount, has a B/W display and different handlebar controls, and puts out 60Nm of torque vs. 70Nm. They use the same batteries.
> 
> The E7000 weight could simply be different packaging of the case, the display and controls are actually better IMHO, and the power difference could just be firmware. Does anyone know if the actual motor and gear assemblies inside the E7000 are identical to E8000?
> 
> Has anyone found a ride review that compares the two systems?


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

El Geezer said:


> I just ordered a very nice looking HAL e29 full suspension e-mtb from Bikes Direct. This bike is equipped with a Shimano KDU e6100M drive train rated at 60Nm which I am quite certain is sufficient for me on mountain bike trails. Shimano positions this unit as being for "city bikes" or "trekking bikes," but the unit is sealed and doesn't have a clue what kind of bike it is installed on. Shimano, to the best of my ability to discover, lists the weight of the STEPS e8000 "motor" (whatever that includes) at 2.8 kg. The e6100M motor is described by Shimano as being "lighter" at a weight of 2.88 kg. That is the current state of information as far as I can discover, and it is unhelpful to say the least. Shimano says nothing about the internals of either unit.
> 
> For what it may be worth, my riding partner has a full sus e-mtb with a STEPS e8000 drive train. He is a big guy (6' - 5", 205#), and he finds the e8000 power in BOOST mode and lowest (46T) gear to be difficult to control, so he only uses BOOST mode with the 37T or 32T rear sprockets. An expert rider might be able to handle the full torque available at the rear wheel, but it is definitely a handful. I weigh 175#, and my partner's experience is what convinced me that 60Nm would be plenty of power for me. We love technical trails, but we don't attempt racing speeds.
> 
> ...


I had not heard of the Shimano E6100M motor. It didn't take Shimano very long to go full on into the eMTB market after they came out with the E8000. It looks like the E6100 is a variation on their "Trekking" Steps 6000 motor. So they have E6100M, E7000 and E8000 now.

Bikes Direct always has a killer spec on their bikes for the price, and the HAL e29 is no exception. $2700 doesn't seem possible. The people who have weighed in on the HALe Boost version from last year have been happy. although we haven't had an update in a little while. I'm curious to see if they still like their bikes after a year or so.

Let us know how the bike rides once it arrives. With real enthusiast level eMTBs now going for under $3000, the eMTB market will get much bigger.


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## El Geezer (May 31, 2016)

My friend's bike is a Bikes Direct HAL eBoost PRO for which he paid $3500 a year ago. It has been a great mountain bike - he cleans all the technical stuff that I often struggle with on my full sus non-e plus bike mainly because he knows the power will be there when he needs it, and he can focus his full attention on line and technique. This is an aspect of the e-mtb that surprised both of us.

His bike has been stone reliable except for the rear shock (RockShox) which leaked air and a wire he broke and was afraid to try to repair himself due to potentially delicate electronics. BD fixed both problems under warranty via a local bike shop. 

I have been riding my non-e 27.5 plus bike with him on his e-mtb for a year now, and I can say from first hand experience that the only significant difference between the two is that on long, steep climbs the e-mtb rider's heart rate will be 20-30 beats a minute slower and he will leave the other poor bastard in the dust.

We recently did a leg from 7800' up to 8600' that had an AVERAGE grade of 17+%. That was after doing an initial 1750' vert. I had to push most of the way, but he just pedaled up looking at the scenery. That was when I decided I needed an e-bike.


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## tcwashers (Jan 14, 2011)

honkinunit said:


> Fezzari is the first brand I have seen that lists the Shimano E7000 system for a lower end eMTB. I've looked all over for a detailed description of the salient differences between the E7000 and E8000. Everything is just a regurgitation of the spec sheet, saying the E7000 is slightly smaller and lighter, but uses the same frame mount, has a B/W display and different handlebar controls, and puts out 60Nm of torque vs. 70Nm. They use the same batteries.
> 
> The E7000 weight could simply be different packaging of the case, the display and controls are actually better IMHO, and the power difference could just be firmware. Does anyone know if the actual motor and gear assemblies inside the E7000 are identical to E8000?
> 
> Has anyone found a ride review that compares the two systems?


The biggest difference between the two systems is the torque between the two motors, 60Nm for E7000 and 70Nm for E8000. This is noticeable on steep climbs and in the trail and boost modes. Having the extra torque helps get the motor up to speed quicker and maintain momentum when the trial gets really steep. I'd kind of relate to towing a heavy trailer with a gas motor vs a diesel motor. I hope that helps. There are a few more tunable things in the displays, but that is minor compared to the extra torque in my opinion.

The other things to frame makers is the cost between the two systems. I think that is why you see the E7000 system on bikes is to help get the total cost of the bike down.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

Nice, short e7000 review with comparison to e8000. You'll be surprised with the results!


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

PurpleMtnSlayer said:


> Nice, short e7000 review with comparison to e8000. You'll be surprised with the results!


Thank you for the link. That was exactly what I was looking for, a straightforward comparison.

I think we will see a lot of E7000 bikes in the next year. I actually like the display and the controls better than E8000, and the super-high power modes are generally unnecessary for trail riding, although the video is correct in the point that it is nice to have the higher power when commuting.

The Fezzari with the E7000 is $3600. That is a great entry point price for a full suspension ebike with pretty good spec.


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## El Geezer (May 31, 2016)

Very informative video that just happens to confirm my intuition that the 60Nm motor would work very nicely on the trail. Just received a notice that my $2700 Motobecane HAL e29 is shipping, so I will be able to see for myself soon enough. I will post my impressions once I get some time on the bike. My riding partner has an e8000 powered 27.5+ bike. I don't expect the power differential to make much if any difference in performance on the trail, but we will be taking turns chasing each other, and the results just might be interesting.


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## Jayhawk11 (Feb 4, 2019)

El Geezer said:


> I just ordered a very nice looking HAL e29 full suspension e-mtb from Bikes Direct. This bike is equipped with a Shimano KDU e6100M drive train rated at 60Nm which I am quite certain is sufficient for me on mountain bike trails. Shimano positions this unit as being for "city bikes" or "trekking bikes," but the unit is sealed and doesn't have a clue what kind of bike it is installed on. Shimano, to the best of my ability to discover, lists the weight of the STEPS e8000 "motor" (whatever that includes) at 2.8 kg. The e6100M motor is described by Shimano as being "lighter" at a weight of 2.88 kg. That is the current state of information as far as I can discover, and it is unhelpful to say the least. Shimano says nothing about the internals of either unit.
> 
> For what it may be worth, my riding partner has a full sus e-mtb with a STEPS e8000 drive train. He is a big guy (6' - 5", 205#), and he finds the e8000 power in BOOST mode and lowest (46T) gear to be difficult to control, so he only uses BOOST mode with the 37T or 32T rear sprockets. An expert rider might be able to handle the full torque available at the rear wheel, but it is definitely a handful. I weigh 175#, and my partner's experience is what convinced me that 60Nm would be plenty of power for me. We love technical trails, but we don't attempt racing speeds.
> 
> ...


How do you like your bike so far? I am really thinking about ordering one because the value seems so good. What kind of range do you get? Also is the e6100m motor feel powerful enough for you?


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## El Geezer (May 31, 2016)

*HAL e29 is a really good bike and an insane value*



Jayhawk11 said:


> How do you like your bike so far? I am really thinking about ordering one because the value seems so good. What kind of range do you get? Also is the e6100m motor feel powerful enough for you?


January 25 was my 80th birthday, and I celebrated by doing a 20-mile, ±1850' vert ride about 12 miles of which was single track with one 3-mile uphill section I would describe as fairly technical. No way could I have done this ride on my HAL Boost TEAM 12 27.5+ bike. My riding partner was on an E8000 bike (BD's other e-mtb), and the difference in power (60Nm vs. 70Nm) was never noticeable. I weigh 175 without clothes.

I like everything about the HAL e29. The RockShox suspension is low end, but it works just fine for me. I rode most of the way in either ECO or NORMAL (TRAIL) mode, and used HIGH (BOOST) for a few really steep sections not because I really needed the power but just to keep pedaling effort "moderate." I finished the 20-mile ride with three bars still lit on the batt.

Coming from the Maxxis Rekon 2.8" tires on my non-e-bike, I was a little concerned about the 29 x 2.1" Maxxis Crossmark IIs on the Hal e29, but I was quite satisfied with their overall performance running 23psi F, 28psi R. I experienced a bit of side slipping on 45° off-camber ruts that I might have ridden OK on the Rekons, but the solution to that is to pick a better line. This is my first 29er experience, and I do like that rolling diameter.

The only issue I had with the bike was with dropper post installation. Before I placed my order, I emailed Larry at BD to verify that DP cable routing was internal, and he said that it was. What he didn't know (the bike is brand new, and I may be the first buyer) is that there are no cable routing ports at the bottom of the down tube and the bottom of the seat tube. The cable has to be routed UNDER the drive unit mounting bracket with all the other stuff that goes to the back wheel. This requires REMOVING the drive unit. This turned out to be a major PITA and requires a #34 Torx (Shimano proprietary tool) to remove the chain ring and some other little non-standard hex key half way between a 3mm and a 3.5mm to remove the chain guide bracket. Based on what Larry had told me, I had purchased an internally routed DP, so I bit the bullet, downloaded what Shimano calls the E6100 "Dealer Manual" (shop manual) which shows everything you need to know to bust the ***** apart and put it back together again. My DP installation came out perfect, but with 20/20 hindsight, I would have done an externally routed DP and saved myself an enormous amount of work. I have gotten on Larry's case pretty good about this, but if you decide to buy a HAL e29, check with Larry and see if they are going to put the ports in the bottoms of the tubes on the next ones like I told him they ought to.

Other than this little problem, which is easy to work around, I think the bike is fantastic. And you can buy three of them for the price of one high-end Turbo Levo. There is really nothing cheap about this bike except the price. BD has done a brilliant job of minimizing the cost of the build without compromising performance or durability. The bike is amazingly good, but the price is a miracle. And I love being able to save my ancient legs for the technical stuff. Unless you are an elite rider capable of appreciating and actually using a really high-end build, I think you would be quite happy with the e29 - and the bucks you didn't have to spend.


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## Jayhawk11 (Feb 4, 2019)

Wow happy belated birthday! I hope I'm that active when I reach that age! (I turned 33 in December). Thank you for the very informative review. I wish bikes direct would let you post a review about the bike on their site so potential customers like myself don't have a hard time finding out about it.

You have convinced me - I'm going to buy it next month. I might do a video review of it after I've had some time with it so I can post it to youtube to make it a little easier for people to find out about it.



El Geezer said:


> January 25 was my 80th birthday, and I celebrated by doing a 20-mile, ±1850' vert ride about 12 miles of which was single track with one 3-mile uphill section I would describe as fairly technical. No way could I have done this ride on my HAL Boost TEAM 12 27.5+ bike. My riding partner was on an E8000 bike (BD's other e-mtb), and the difference in power (60Nm vs. 70Nm) was never noticeable. I weigh 175 without clothes.
> 
> I like everything about the HAL e29. The RockShox suspension is low end, but it works just fine for me. I rode most of the way in either ECO or NORMAL (TRAIL) mode, and used HIGH (BOOST) for a few really steep sections not because I really needed the power but just to keep pedaling effort "moderate." I finished the 20-mile ride with three bars still lit on the batt.
> 
> ...


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## El Geezer (May 31, 2016)

Jayhawk11 said:


> Wow happy belated birthday! I hope I'm that active when I reach that age! (I turned 33 in December). Thank you for the very informative review. I wish bikes direct would let you post a review about the bike on their site so potential customers like myself don't have a hard time finding out about it.
> 
> You have convinced me - I'm going to buy it next month. I might do a video review of it after I've had some time with it so I can post it to youtube to make it a little easier for people to find out about it.


I expect you will be glad you did. I still intend to ride my non-e-bike, but the HAL e29 makes rides that would be an ordeal on a non-e-bike both rideable and way more fun. For example, there is a 16-mile fire road loop up out of Lytle Creek, CA, in the eastern San Gabriel Mountains area I want to do that rises and falls about 2600'. The uphill would not be fun for me on a regular mtb, but, on my last ride with the e-mtb, I was doing 12-14 mph going up fairly steep grades going at least twice as fast and working half as hard as I would have been on a non-e-bike. The scenery rolls by, it is actually kind of fun. On the downhills you are limited by traction and whatever pucker factor you like to dial in, and you have to think to remember you are on an e-bike. A new world of BIG RIDES opens up.

It would be great if you did a video. If you don't mind a suggestion, take your time and really get to know the bike first so you can talk from a solid base of experience. All those vids where the guy is flapping his mouth and you can still see the box in the background don't do much for old grandpappy here.


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## Traditional50s (Feb 3, 2019)

Looking to get a Wire Peak or the HAL e29 and love this thread!
Seems that the Shimano is great solution in all models, have found no real complaints any where on the web.
A few questions, anyone know the weight limits of these bikes? I'm 260lbs in full gear and can wider tire be put on a HAL e29?
Leaning toward the HAL as the price fits my budget and an extra battery I believe is 299 but the entry level wire peak seems to be a winner. The tire size and great integration of the system certainly work for me. 
Also any comments of the Shimano motor noise? I like it quiet but believe they all make some noise.


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## tcwashers (Jan 14, 2011)

Traditional50s said:


> Looking to get a Wire Peak or the HAL e29 and love this thread!
> Seems that the Shimano is great solution in all models, have found no real complaints any where on the web.
> A few questions, anyone know the weight limits of these bikes? I'm 260lbs in full gear and can wider tire be put on a HAL e29?
> Leaning toward the HAL as the price fits my budget and an extra battery I believe is 299 but the entry level wire peak seems to be a winner. The tire size and great integration of the system certainly work for me.
> Also any comments of the Shimano motor noise? I like it quiet but believe they all make some noise.


No issues on weight. I am 6'4'' and 250lbs geared up and I have been riding this bike pretty extensively. It works awesome!


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## El Geezer (May 31, 2016)

*It depends on the $1000*



Traditional50s said:


> Looking to get a Wire Peak or the HAL e29 and love this thread!
> Seems that the Shimano is great solution in all models, have found no real complaints any where on the web.
> A few questions, anyone know the weight limits of these bikes? I'm 260lbs in full gear and can wider tire be put on a HAL e29?
> Leaning toward the HAL as the price fits my budget and an extra battery I believe is 299 but the entry level wire peak seems to be a winner. The tire size and great integration of the system certainly work for me.
> Also any comments of the Shimano motor noise? I like it quiet but believe they all make some noise.


I own a HAL e29, and I am very happy with the bike. If you set the HAL e29 next to a Wire Peak Comp and asked me which one I preferred, I am certain I would pick the Fezzari. But the HAL e29 is $2700 in a box on your doorstep, and the Wire Peak is $3600 plus probably sales tax and maybe shipping or whatever.

I just checked my tire clearance with a ruler, and there is a minimum of 15mm on all sides in the back and what appears to be more than that in the front, so 2.35" tires would be no problem, and I think 2.5" or 2.6" would probably work. The rims are on the narrow side, but they will work with larger tires. I really like the 29er rolling diameter, but the 2.1" tires sink into deep sand and get squirrelly. Otherwise they are great, and they steer very precisely. I don't think your weight will make nearly as much difference as whether you are riding a lot of sand and mud. I would definitely hold off on the extra battery for a while. My battery is good for 2 or 3 times as far as my butt.

I have not run across any complaints about Shimano drive units, but all I know is that my E6100 and my friend's E8000 work great. The lower power of the E6100 and E7000 units might be a problem if you were racing, but for spirited trail riding, I don't think you would have a problem even at a heavier body weight. You will do way better on big hills on an e-bike than you do now, my friend!


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Purchase the HAL e27 with E8000 package and loving it, did install a 29" wheel on the front for BB clearance and less pedal strike since I can't find any 165mm cranks. The bike rides real nice, I basically put my Stumpy to bed for now but will still ride it on group rides since they're slower and easier trails.
The only issue I have so far is with the computer since it's not giving me the option to connect Bluetooth, hopefully someone will give me some insight on another post I created and if not then I'll get in touch with Larry at BD.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

Nash04 said:


> Purchase the HAL e27 with E8000 package and loving it, did install a 29" wheel on the front for BB clearance and less pedal strike since I can't find any 165mm cranks. The bike rides real nice, I basically put my Stumpy to bed for now but will still ride it on group rides since they're slower and easier trails.
> The only issue I have so far is with the computer since it's not giving me the option to connect Bluetooth, hopefully someone will give me some insight on another post I created and if not then I'll get in touch with Larry at BD.


The high-end Shimano SC-e8000 display unfortunately doesn't have the correct Bluetooth Smart profiles of the other displays. If you have this nice color display you need to purchase and install the Shimano EW-EN100 to get Bluetooth Connectivity with Shimano's own app or Garmin 530 / 830 / 1030 computers. There's a thread over in emtbforums on this.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

honkinunit said:


> Thank you for the link. That was exactly what I was looking for, a straightforward comparison.
> 
> I think we will see a lot of E7000 bikes in the next year. I actually like the display and the controls better than E8000, and the super-high power modes are generally unnecessary for trail riding, although the video is correct in the point that it is nice to have the higher power when commuting.
> 
> The Fezzari with the E7000 is $3600. That is a great entry point price for a full suspension ebike with pretty good spec.


That's an especially good deal if you already have a nice mountain bike with a good front fork; I swapped the forks of my el-cheapo Haibike with my old mountain bike and spent another $400 on a Fox Factory DPS rear shock and now have a bike that works very well plus a guest bike; I never even ride my old bike anymore.

I don't think I'd miss a measly 10nm of torque deficit on my bike; I rarely see full torque on the display of my 70nM PW-SE motor. The extra money for the more powerful motor is better spent elsewhere.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I demoed the 8000 but need to demo it again.
Personaly i am not focus on speed so i am sure 70 is plenty if the software is well made.
We need traction so extra power like mentioned is nice only when i pedal to the trails and back(i do not have a car that is why i recently got an Ebike). Here in Quebec i think buying the 7000 the resale value will suffer so i would not buy unless the price was real low if new, but i might buy a used one to avoid the big depreciation. 
PS. My experince is with Yamaha 2,900km 0 problem so my next one might be a Yamaha if on a frame i like.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

hikerdave said:


> The high-end Shimano SC-e8000 display unfortunately doesn't have the correct Bluetooth Smart profiles of the other displays. If you have this nice color display you need to purchase and install the Shimano EW-EN100 to get Bluetooth Connectivity with Shimano's own app or Garmin 530 / 830 / 1030 computers. There's a thread over in emtbforums on this.


Was able to program it once I received a post with their link, it's now connecting and updated the firmware.


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## Old & Slow (May 3, 2020)

El Geezer said:


> I would definitely hold off on the extra battery for a while. My battery is good for 2 or 3 times as far as my butt.
> 
> I have not run across any complaints about Shimano drive units, but all I know is that my E6100 and my friend's E8000 work great.


Read every post of yours in this thread with great interest. Looking for an eMTB and saw the HAL 29 several months ago and decided it was underpowered. Then I read your comments. The Shimano website doesn't even acknowledge that a 6100M motor exists.

Is your HAL 29 the same as the current one?
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products...ikes-hal-e29-electric-mountain-bikes-29er.htm

Still as positive?

BTW: You've got 5-years on me and I've got 5# on you so pretty close.

Thanks you so much for your thoughts.


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## El Geezer (May 31, 2016)

*HAL e29 has better tires now*



Old & Slow said:


> Read every post of yours in this thread with great interest. Looking for an eMTB and saw the HAL 29 several months ago and decided it was underpowered. Then I read your comments. The Shimano website doesn't even acknowledge that a 6100M motor exists.
> 
> Is your HAL 29 the same as the current one?
> Save Up to 60% Off eBikes LTD QTYS of these 29er eBikes Electric Mountain bikes 2021 Motobecane HAL e29 with Shimano SLX / E6100M Electric MidDrive 29er Full Suspension Mountain eBikes Shimano Hydraulic Disc Brakes Rockshox RECON 120mm Forks | Save u
> ...


I hadn't looked at the BD website for months, but took a look just now to answer your question. My HAL e29 was equipped with Maxxis Crossmark II 2.3 (or maybe 2.1?) tires which were too skinny and too smooth for the trails I ride and didn't work for me at all. The current HAL e29 comes with WTB Trail Boss 2.4 tires which are undoubtedly an improvement.

I upgraded my tires to Maxxis Minion DHF 2.5 front and DHR 2.4 rear, a setup I saw on several fairly high end 29ers, and these tires completely transformed the bike. I got mine out of Germany for just over $50 each. I put on Race Face Chester platforms and added a Brand X Ascend 150mm seat post, and I have been entirely satisfied with the way the bike rides and handles under every condition I have encountered.

The e6100 motor has produced enough torque for every situation. My riding partner has the e8000 powered BD emtb, and he rides in Boost mode just about all the time. I can usually keep up with him while riding in Trail (NORM) mode, but I am definitely working harder than he is. He is lazier than me. If you climb a lot of really long, really steep, really boring hills, you might want more power in order to minimize the time you spend grinding up.

My e6100 drive unit has developed a problem with the torque sensor such that on long climbs it will periodically stop producing torque. Turning the power OFF, waiting 20 seconds, and rebooting fixes the problem - for a while. Annoying beyond belief.

I started a process with Shimano a few months back to get it fixed under warranty, but that got interrupted by one thing and then another. Trails where I live have only recently re-opened, and I rode off-road today for the first time in months. I am going to get back on the warranty issue right away and get this problem fixed, and I fully expect Shimano to come through for me. I mention this because it is a part of my experience, but I in no way think that my problem is common or typical, and it is not a criticism of the HAL e29 design or spec.

In my opinion, the HAL e29 is still a good bike and a good value, but maybe not as good as it used to be. I bought my bikes from BD back in the day when the listed price was what your card was charged, and FedEx put the box in front of your door. Unless I am mistaken BD are now collecting state sales tax and charging for shipping, but don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself.

While you are at it, you might want to take a look at the HAL eBoost Elite which costs $200 more than the e29 but comes with a dropper post, a 12-speed Shimano drive train, and the e7000 motor. It has 27.5 wheels and Maxxis Rekon 2.8 tires which work well on an e-bike where rolling resistance isn't a big issue. If I were buying my emtb today, I would give this bike serious consideration.

Also, I think there are quite a few other direct sales outfits offering emtb's today. BD does a good job providing really rideable specs at a good price, but they are not the only game in town.

On a personal note, I've got a thoroughly modified Bullseye Monster fatty that I ride on the beach at low tide from time to time and a HAL Boost 27.5+ mtb with SRAM Eagle and Rekon 2.8's in addition to the HAL e29. I have no plans to stop riding. I think what will happen is that, at some point, I will decide that the effort required to get out there, do it, come home, and clean up exceeds the rewards of riding, but time will tell. The HAL e29 might push that day out to age 90 or so, who knows?

Hope these ideas help you a little bit.

El Geezer


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## Old & Slow (May 3, 2020)

Thanks for taking the time to reply.



El Geezer said:


> The e6100 motor has produced enough torque for every situation. My riding partner has the e8000 powered BD emtb, and he rides in Boost mode just about all the time. I can usually keep up with him while riding in Trail (NORM) mode, but I am definitely working harder than he is.


That's a telling comment.



> Unless I am mistaken BD are now collecting state sales tax and charging for shipping, but don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself.


Shipping is still free, but you are correct on the sales tax. If it is just state, then 2.9% for me, if city/county, then 8+%, big bite.



> While you are at it, you might want to take a look at the HAL eBoost Elite which costs $200 more than the e29 but comes with a dropper post, a 12-speed Shimano drive train, and the e7000 motor. It has 27.5 wheels and Maxxis Rekon 2.8 tires which work well on an e-bike where rolling resistance isn't a big issue. If I were buying my emtb today, I would give this bike serious consideration.


Several things:
1. Really want a 29er
2. That bike doesn't ship until Oct. 
3. The HAL 29er has a dropper, but not clear it is installed.

Some thoughts about me, might make your recommendations clearer:
I'm not a mountain biker, rather a hiker. Yesterday, after posting my comments, I headed for a favorite hike. Photos will explain:
















I was trying to reach that saddle, it is the Continental Divide. Colorado drainage on the opposite side and I'm in the Arkansas side.
















Same spot at 12,000 feet looking south over the highway I started from. I gave up on the saddle, oh so close, too much soft snow.

I'm used to hiking to these high places all over Colorado, lately less so. The mtb is only to climb and fast descents of no interest at all. Just me and the critter. I would never ride pavement or gravel, too dangerous for the dog, just trails and 4WD roads.

My take on mountain biking: It is mandatory to maintain a minimum speed at all times to maintain balance. Once you drop below that minimum speed the rider and bike become a tripod. Stable but stopped. Regaining that minimum speed requires a burst of energy. Whereas when hiking, stopping is a nonissue. Simple put a foot forward and continue, no burst required.

After your comments I'm convinced that the Shimano E6100M is under powered for me. I want a stronger motor with a throttle to maintain the minimum balance speed. Also, don't believe the E7000 is any better. Did some searching and was unable to find a way to add a throttle to any Shimano STEPS motor.

My current thinking is to get an Lectric eBike:
https://lectricebikes.com/products/lectric-xp-pre-order-for-july

I'm convinced it will out climb the HAL e29 because of its 20" tires and more powerful motor, has a bigger battery and a throttle and cheap. The folding also has some merit. Many rave reviews on YouTube, although almost no trail reviews. Big soft tires are its only suspension.

Any thoughts?


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## El Geezer (May 31, 2016)

Old & Slow said:


> Thanks for taking the time to reply.
> 
> That's a telling comment.
> 
> ...


I don't think you need an emtb at all - a waste of money for you. Since you are really only in need of transportation, get some kind of reliable trail bike, the simpler and more reliable the better. The one you are looking at sounds like it might be the right stuff. You should be able to save serious bucks, get up and down the hill just fine, and be much happier. Mountain biking is a completely different world.

Beautiful country. Glad you get to enjoy it.

El Geezer


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

I'm in Colorado and got my first e-bike...a Pivot Shuttle. Using Boost mode is impractical on most trails for me. It is too easy and requires too little effort. Plus, it is worthless on tight switchbacks and twisty trails. It really takes the fun out of the amazing trails we have here unless you just want to fly on the open sections. It is good for some things but I prefer Eco and Trail modes. I have been riding regular 29ers here since 2004 or so and still do/well be. If you get a throttle, you will be technically illegal on most trails where dirt bikes are not allowed. 

Anyway, I am a cyclist (I also ride road/gravel/fatties on snow) so I want to retain that feel. I have been dirt biking some too but gave that up a couple of years ago. For me, there were just three choices...the Levo, the Shuttle, and the YT Decoy. I chose the Shuttle due to the shortest chainstays and wheelbase, and I prefer the DW Link suspension over all. My Yeti is a pretty nice climber too, but I find the DW Link is still the best for climbing. 

E-bikes are still illegal in most of the high country but are now legal on easily a couple of hundred miles of trails here west of Denver. I hope some more trails open up in the high country and I hope e-bikers are cognizant of the hikers and regular bikers who have been riding there for decades.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Flyer said:


> I'm in Colorado and got my first e-bike...a Pivot Shuttle. Using Boost mode is impractical on most trails for me. It is too easy and requires too little effort. Plus, it is worthless on tight switchbacks and twisty trails. It really takes the fun out of the amazing trails we have here unless you just want to fly on the open sections. It is good for some things but I prefer Eco and Trail modes. I have been riding regular 29ers here since 2004 or so and still do/well be. If you get a throttle, you will be technically illegal on most trails where dirt bikes are not allowed.
> 
> Anyway, I am a cyclist (I also ride road/gravel/fatties on snow) so I want to retain that feel. I have been dirt biking some too but gave that up a couple of years ago. For me, there were just three choices...the Levo, the Shuttle, and the YT Decoy. I chose the Shuttle due to the shortest chainstays and wheelbase, and I prefer the DW Link suspension over all. My Yeti is a pretty nice climber too, but I find the DW Link is still the best for climbing.
> 
> E-bikes are still illegal in most of the high country but are now legal on easily a couple of hundred miles of trails here west of Denver. I hope some more trails open up in the high country and I hope e-bikers are cognizant of the hikers and regular bikers who have been riding there for decades.


Boost or MAX assist is for riders like me. Without a car, i often pedal 8 to 10 miles to get to trails fast then i lower the assist, enjoy trails time, than pedaling back home again full assist. Some just have fun going down so they use max power to go again enjoy going down so it is like if they sit on a chairlift. They often like large or multiple batteries because technical stuff is boring to them.


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## inter (Nov 27, 2010)

@ El Geezer, so you had your Motobecane E29 for 2 years now, are you still riding it?
Any picture of the bike?
BD keep changing the bikes name, so Im confused which one is which.
Mine is Motobecane E27plus, with E7000 motor, I replace the wheels to 29er.
BD changed the name (same frame like mine) to Motobecane Hal E29, with E6100 motor, 29er wheels plus $200 more expensive then when it was E27plus with E7000 motor.
I got mine in January and quickly sold out. Anyway, I've put 1500 miles, no issue.
I don't know about E6100, but this E7000 is powerful, I can keep up just fine with stronger motor like brose, E8000, Yamaha, Bosch. 
Even with Bosch gen 3, feel like E7000 has more power, I have ridden it back to back.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Yeah, makes sense. I don't need to ride to trails so I forget how useful it could be.



33red said:


> Boost or MAX assist is for riders like me. Without a car, i often pedal 8 to 10 miles to get to trails fast then i lower the assist, enjoy trails time, than pedaling back home again full assist. Some just have fun going down so they use max power to go again enjoy going down so it is like if they sit on a chairlift. They often like large or multiple batteries because technical stuff is boring to them.


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