# Ye Olde bike for commuting



## Dummyrunner (May 25, 2011)

I've just purchased an old 1979 Healing 10speed which I am going to use to replace my current commuter that originally started out life as my first Mountainbike. Was a sentimental decision as it's almost identical to a bike I had in highschool back in the 80s.

I pick it up tomorrow and am already thinking about a few little upgrades to make it look a bit nicer and functional. Would really like some advice on what I need to watch out for before buying anything that won't work. Have already got some tyres that I can throw on it that were in the shed, but would like to put a more modern groupset on. Even lower end 2nd hand shimano components would be an improvement I suspect, and I like the idea of having the cable hidden as opposed to coming out the back of the brake lever.

Want to stick with the dropbars because I don't want to mess too much with the original lines of the bike, but may need to swap out for a slightly longer neck.

To give you an indication, Healing were a local manufacturer that made bikes similar to Raliegh models of the same era. Pics below of my current commuter and it's replacement.


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## R+P+K (Oct 28, 2009)

Ahhh the good old days when we still made bikes in New Zealand. You werent a kid in the 80's if you didn't have an HMX500 or Pantha.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

First thing you can do to make it instantly safer is take off the turkey wings. You only need one set of brake levers, and if you really find yourself hurting for the extra places to brake, they make "cross levers" that perform the same function without gimping your brakes. I don't mind the top-routed brakes so much after using them for a while, but I would definitely pick up a couple of rolls of bar tape so you can make the brakes a little more comfortable to rest on. Fenders that actually do something would be a good investment as well. Last but not least, feel free to change the drivetrain if you want, but the biggest improvement you will get is switching the rear derailler and maybe the chain/cassette. No need to worry about upgrading the crankset as long as the chainrings are in good shape...as soon as it starts wearing out, then by all means, change it, but I find they work quite satisfactorily on older bikes.


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## Dummyrunner (May 25, 2011)

R+P+K said:


> Ahhh the good old days when we still made bikes in New Zealand. You werent a kid in the 80's if you didn't have an HMX500 or Pantha.


I know! And they are rediculous money on trademe. Wanted to buy one for my son but I could have put a 2x10 xt groupset on my bike for what they wanted for the one I saw.


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## Dummyrunner (May 25, 2011)

wschruba said:


> First thing you can do to make it instantly safer is take off the turkey wings. You only need one set of brake levers, and if you really find yourself hurting for the extra places to brake, they make "cross levers" that perform the same function without gimping your brakes. I don't mind the top-routed brakes so much after using them for a while, but I would definitely pick up a couple of rolls of bar tape so you can make the brakes a little more comfortable to rest on. Fenders that actually do something would be a good investment as well. Last but not least, feel free to change the drivetrain if you want, but the biggest improvement you will get is switching the rear derailler and maybe the chain/cassette. No need to worry about upgrading the crankset as long as the chainrings are in good shape...as soon as it starts wearing out, then by all means, change it, but I find they work quite satisfactorily on older bikes.


Thanks for the advice. I think you've kinda got where I'm at. With replacing the rear derailler and cassette, will this mean I deffinately need to go to modern combined brake levers/gearchange? I think I prefer this option at any rate. Don't really like mudguards but will put them on I think, just to give it a more commuter look as opposed to the beatnic retro racer crowd that piss everyone off riding 3 abreast holding up traffic.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

wschruba said:


> First thing you can do to make it instantly safer is take off the turkey wings.


Turkey wings . I`ve never heard them called that before.
Why do you say they`re unsafe?



Dummyrunner said:


> With replacing the rear derailler and cassette, will this mean I deffinately need to go to modern combined brake levers/gearchange?


It doesn`t have a cassette, but if you really wanted to, you could get yourself a Hyperglide style freewheel and a modern chain for not too much. You might be surprised how much shifing improves. If you went WAAAY out, you could conceiveably put in new shifters and brake levers too, and no you wouldn`t need to get integrated "brifters". In fact, I`m not even sure those are still available for 7 speed, so that would likely mean a new rear wheel if you did go that route. And even for 7-speed (freewheel), my guess is that you`d probably have to do some spacer play and redishing.

It`s your call of course, but personally, I might go as far as a modern freewheel and chain (or maybe not even that), and that`s about it as far as upgrading. Along with the tires,new brake pads would probably be a good idea, as would fresh grease in all the bearings. For free, I think you can take the "turkey wings" off and leave the other levers. I`m pretty sure the wings just have a little tab that engages the back part of the primary levers, pulling them just as though you did it with your fingers. You`ll just have a couple of little studs where they used to mount.

Those mini fenders are cool! Are they common where you are?

EDIT:
> " Last but not least, feel free to change the drivetrain if you want, but the biggest improvement you will get is switching the rear derailler and maybe the chain/cassette. No need to worry about upgrading the crankset as long as the chainrings are in good shape...as soon as it starts wearing out, then by all means, change it, but I find they work quite satisfactorily on older bikes."<

Unless there`s something wrong with the derailler that`s already there, or you want to go to indexed shifting, I don`t agree that a new RD would make any noticeable difference. Feel free to prove me wrong, though.

If you ever do decide for some reason to change the cranks, be careful not to damage or lose any little pieces when removing the arms and BB because you might find youself with some no longer available BB type or end with a cotter-pin nightmare.


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## Dummyrunner (May 25, 2011)

rodar y rodar said:


> Turkey wings . I`ve never heard them called that before.
> Why do you say they`re unsafe?
> 
> It doesn`t have a cassette, but if you really wanted to, you could get yourself a Hyperglide style freewheel and a modern chain for not too much. You might be surprised how much shifing improves. If you went WAAAY out, you could conceiveably put in new shifters and brake levers too, and no you wouldn`t need to get integrated "brifters". In fact, I`m not even sure those are still available for 7 speed, so that would likely mean a new rear wheel if you did go that route. And even for 7-speed (freewheel), my guess is that you`d probably have to do some spacer play and redishing.
> ...


Thanks, lots of food for thought. And never mind 7 speed, this old girl is 5. 
Indexed gearing is what I had in mind but that may need to wait. Getting her running sweet will be the first order of business. I havn't actually laid eyes on it in the flesh yet, so not sure of the state of everything.

Yes those 'Turkey Wings' will come off. And the mini guards were all the rage back in the day. Don't really see them anymore though.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Five speed now, but I don`t think there were ever any indexed five speed shifters, so to index you`d have to go with more sprockets. That should be doable up to 7 with enough cussing and futzing.

Oh, and I had a double brainfart about the brifters. I think they started with six speed, so you might find an old one (I know there were 7s), and I`m pretty sure there are still 8 speed models in production, which would work with a 7 speed freewheel. If that`s what you want, anyway.

But if it`s nostalgia for your high school bike that you want, would it still do it for you if you put all that expensive modern stuff onto your frame? In that case, you`d have a much easier time, and spend less, if you just made up a set of "Healing" decals to slap on a 90s Trek 400 or something.


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## R+P+K (Oct 28, 2009)

Dummyrunner said:


> I know! And they are rediculous money on trademe. Wanted to buy one for my son but I could have put a 2x10 xt groupset on my bike for what they wanted for the one I saw.


There was a rumor going round that they were going to re-issue a run of Panthas. Not sure what happened to that plan.


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## Dummyrunner (May 25, 2011)

rodar y rodar said:


> Five speed now, but I don`t think there were ever any indexed five speed shifters, so to index you`d have to go with more sprockets. That should be doable up to 7 with enough cussing and futzing.
> 
> Oh, and I had a double brainfart about the brifters. I think they started with six speed, so you might find an old one (I know there were 7s), and I`m pretty sure there are still 8 speed models in production, which would work with a 7 speed freewheel. If that`s what you want, anyway.
> 
> But if it`s nostalgia for your high school bike that you want, would it still do it for you if you put all that expensive modern stuff onto your frame? In that case, you`d have a much easier time, and spend less, if you just made up a set of "Healing" decals to slap on a 90s Trek 400 or something.


I wouldn't slap otherbrand decals on a trek (or similar) any more than I would put Harley badges on a Honda. I think for for me, a few upgrades that won't be too expensive to start with will be enough. I've done some research around the good information you have given me tonight, as well as looking at some other threads online.

Really looking forward to picking it up tomorrow afternoon, getting it back to the shed, changing the tyres and giving her a bit of a shine before taking her for a spin. Will see how she goes for a week or two then I will have a better idea as to prioritising any parts I may want to change out.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

The old style dual levers for brakes were not necessarily unsafe in and of themselves, if the brakes were well adjusted--they did, however, encourage a poor riding grip, where you have your hands closer together, ergo, less leverage for steering. *Edit* As an aside, I find that I actually like the protruding axle where the levers used to be, gives me a place to rest my thumbs when I am on the hoods.

If you keep the friction shifters, changing the RD won't be a problem (your mileage may vary...always check the cable pull on them. That said, something like an Atlus would almost certainly work). I have noticed that, especially with the old deraillers meant to work with 5 speeds, if you change the freewheel to a more modern 7 speed (or a 6, to a lesser degree) that the RD has trouble being adjusted to the highest gear. It works, but it will click the whole time you are in it.

If you are looking for a cheap 'upgrade' path, go searching for a bike co-op or somesuch. In the USA we have oodles of Schwinn 10 speeds about, and they are a phenomenal source of [sometimes] lightly used/abused parts for replacement purposes.


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## Dummyrunner (May 25, 2011)

wschruba said:


> The old style dual levers for brakes were not necessarily unsafe in and of themselves, if the brakes were well adjusted--they did, however, encourage a poor riding grip, where you have your hands closer together, ergo, less leverage for steering. *Edit* As an aside, I find that I actually like the protruding axle where the levers used to be, gives me a place to rest my thumbs when I am on the hoods.
> 
> If you keep the friction shifters, changing the RD won't be a problem (your mileage may vary...always check the cable pull on them. That said, something like an Atlus would almost certainly work). I have noticed that, especially with the old deraillers meant to work with 5 speeds, if you change the freewheel to a more modern 7 speed (or a 6, to a lesser degree) that the RD has trouble being adjusted to the highest gear. It works, but it will click the whole time you are in it.
> 
> If you are looking for a cheap 'upgrade' path, go searching for a bike co-op or somesuch. In the USA we have oodles of Schwinn 10 speeds about, and they are a phenomenal source of [sometimes] lightly used/abused parts for replacement purposes.


Thanks for your great input. I have been looking online online for a donor bike and will probably check out a few local 2nd hand dealers and pawn shops to see what's out there. My head is telling me be patient but my heart wants to get in and do stuff straight away. It's always the same when I buy new stuff.

I think from what I've learned so far, my main issue at this stage will be around if I introduce a new modern cassette (ie 7speed or the like), the spacing will not be enough. I really like the idea of the 'brifters' though. Nice and clean.

The bike only owes me $50 NZD at this stage so I don't mind dropping a few notes to get it how I want it. I can easily justify some spending when measured against the cost of driving to work every day instead of riding.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

If you are concerned about the spacing of the rear dropouts, don't worry. Check out this article by Sheldon Brown. I did the same on my Varsity, with no ill affects other than the clicking derailler mentioned above. It is so rare that I have the bike in that gear that it is usually not a problem. The plus to changing the spacing to 130mm is that you have the option of going with 7-10 gears on a freehub instead of a freewheel. Bear in mind that if your rear derailler is of the older type with a two piece bolt and nut mounting, you will need to get the dropout modified to install a modern derailler. If that is out of the question, and you can live with the clicking in the top gears, I have used the original derailler up to 7 gears.

You can also monkey with the idea of 7 of 8 on a cassette freehub if that is your style (and you spread the dropouts to 130mm), and may improve the shifting somewhat. I do like the integrated shifters as well, but make sure you can find/mount all the components before buying anything.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I absolutely hate the way older road bikes have the big cable loops above the bars. ugly, for one, and then you've got housing compression issues that rob you of braking performance.

after getting new tires, brake pads, and saddle, I'd change the cables and levers. you could do bar end shifters, as there are quite a number of friction options out there.


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## Dummyrunner (May 25, 2011)

NateHawk said:


> I absolutely hate the way older road bikes have the big cable loops above the bars. ugly, for one, and then you've got housing compression issues that rob you of braking performance.
> 
> after getting new tires, brake pads, and saddle, I'd change the cables and levers. you could do bar end shifters, as there are quite a number of friction options out there.


Hey, thanks for contributing. Picked her up today and am pretty happy with the state it's in. Was pleasently surprised with the smooth gear changing but there is alot more tarnishing on the stainless/chrome than I expected. Desperately needs cleaning and I think I will remove the small chainring.

The seat is mint and quite comfy so I think that will stay for now. Brake pads, tyres and a spit polish tomorrow.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

A scotch brite pad (green pot scrubber) works great for removing light rust. Won't damage the intact chrome like steel wool.


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

Be sure to check out the rear triangle for clearance to go up over 5 speeds. On my '73 vintage Schwinn Sports Tourer, it took a fair bit of work to stuff a 6-sp. freewheel in there w/o rubbing. Had to do a fair bit of grinding plus made up some custom spacers for the axle to keep the chain from running:
- Schwinn Sports Tourer Restoration










And on my '82 vintage Raleigh Competition, I managed to stuff a 7-sp. freewheel in there:










I run friction shifters on both bikes, flat bar and thumb shifters on the Schwinn and drop bars with bar end shifters on the Raleigh.


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## Dummyrunner (May 25, 2011)

4Crawler said:


> Be sure to check out the rear triangle for clearance to go up over 5 speeds. On my '73 vintage Schwinn Sports Tourer, it took a fair bit of work to stuff a 6-sp. freewheel in there w/o rubbing. Had to do a fair bit of grinding plus made up some custom spacers for the axle to keep the chain from running:
> 
> I run friction shifters on both bikes, flat bar and thumb shifters on the Schwinn and drop bars with bar end shifters on the Raleigh.


Yep I think there may be a bit of trial and error involved. Learned my 1st real life lesson today. I didn't realize there were soooooo many wheel sizes. Turns out the mint Conti Gatorskins that I had in storage from another bike are 622mm and the existing tyres are 630mm. Donor bike I'm looking at online looking alot more attractive already. Especially since I've also just found that the front wheel bearings are toast.

Couldn't get the crank off either to remove the small chainring. Looks like the dustcap thread on the crank may be a little burred. Will have another go tomorrow.


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## oromis (Jul 13, 2011)

Judging from the title of this post I was hoping for so much more.,A wooden wheeled bike or maybe a penny farthing with saddlebags. 

Nice bike though, I dig used bikes.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

[No message]


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Hey, where`s my post?
Anyway, be sure to use some grease on the threads when you screw the crank puller tool in.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

You should be able to get the crank puller in 99% of the way by hand. Turn it backwards first to line up the threads, then screw it in. Like Rodar said, grease will help here. You also don't want to make it super tight; a quarter turn past what you can do by hand should be sufficient.

If the threads are shot, bring it to a bike shop or a machinist with the pitch and diameter threading you need. They will be able to fix the threads enough to get the crank off, or at the worst, be able to dismantle the crank/bottom bracket/axle unit to get everything off.


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## Dummyrunner (May 25, 2011)

Spoke to the the owner of my LBS yesterday and he said bring it and they would have a look at it. I've bought 3 bikes from them in the last two years (wife/kids) and they are pretty keen to get my next bike at the end of this year so they probably wouldn't charge me anything. Keen to do it myself though if I can. Surf's up thismorning so I'm out for the next few hours then going to have another crack at it. The joys of shiftwork (4 on 4 off) lots of time to play.


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## 4Crawler (Oct 30, 2011)

wschruba said:


> You should be able to get the crank puller in 99% of the way by hand. Turn it backwards first to line up the threads, then screw it in. Like Rodar said, grease will help here. You also don't want to make it super tight; a quarter turn past what you can do by hand should be sufficient.
> 
> If the threads are shot, bring it to a bike shop or a machinist with the pitch and diameter threading you need. They will be able to fix the threads enough to get the crank off, or at the worst, be able to dismantle the crank/bottom bracket/axle unit to get everything off.


On one of my bikes, I had a crank with messed up threads. But I spent about an hour with the crank puller working it in and out a little at a time. Take it out, clean up the threads and see how it is progressing and I was finally able to get the puller to thread in deep enough to pull the crank off. I basically used the crank puller threads as a threading die to reform the damaged threads. You just need to be careful that you have the puller going in dead straight, as if it is crooked, it'll try cutting new threads.


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## Dummyrunner (May 25, 2011)

Well my 10speed is now a 5speed and I'm actually pretty embaresed as to the actual problem I had with getting the crank off. Excuse me while I kick my own arse for not unscrewing the the adjustment of the crank tool last time I used it. Came back from a surf looked at it and knew straight away what the problem was. Have to say the bike looks really awesome without the rusty chainguide/bashguard.

Rear cogs are 5 speed 14-28 tooth now with just the 52 chainring. The cranks are 65mm and the bars are 345mm wide. The donor bike I'm looking at on line looks to be about a 12 year old diamondback in good condition. It also has friction shifters but with a 7 speed cluster. Not sure about the cluster spread but the bars are 410mm wide, the brake levers are the sort I want and it has modern quick release alloy wheels. The tyres on it are new so I can facter that expense in to help justify my purchase. Pretty much all that will be left of my original bike will be the frame, guards, headset, stem and bb. Think I will leave the mini front guard and eventually change the rear guard for a full size chrome one. Its a pain that they only seem to sell them as pairs. Auction closes sunday so everything grinds to a halt until then. Pic of the donor bike for those interested to see.... and yes my wife has also said why not just use the donor bike instead.:madman:


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Looks shweet. Aluminum rims are a far superior braking surface to steel, can't really appreciate that until you try to stop in the rain with steel rims, though. Also much lighter and easier to true.


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## Dummyrunner (May 25, 2011)

Ok, so here's an update on the progress so far. Turns out the doner bike is actually pretty cool. I really don't know alot about components so I have included a few closup shots, and i would like to bounce some thoughts around to get some ideas from some of my more savvy bike bretheren.

Swapped the bars, brake levers, and wheels over today. There was a fair amount of frigging about to get the spacing right for the axels but got there in the end. She is now 7 speed but with slightly less range than when it was 5 speed. I will probably swap the cassette for one with a bit more range at some stage. I wanted to replace the derailleur as well but didn't have a spare hanger handy without pinching one of the kids ones. I left the original on which to my pleasent surprise, works well after some adjustment on the 7 speed cassette. Not sure as yet what I will do now I know this works. A spare is always handy to have either way.

Where I have really come to grief is around the brake calipers. Really wanted to use the doner bike ones but ran into two problems. First and easiest was the mount holes on the frame are too small. Nothing that cant be easily fixed by my good friend Mr Makita. The second, and more annoying relates to the smaller wheel size mentioned in an earlier post. There isn't enough adjustment to get the brakepads down to the rim. I've done some research around dropbolts but they seem to be rediculously expensive and pretty ugly. I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to attach an extension onto the actual calipers themselves lowering the pads, or would this result in less pressure being applied to the rim upon braking? 

The rims themselves are uber cool made in the USA which I will keep forever. Don't know exactly how good they really are but I am stoked to say the least. Closeup pics of the new bits for those interested. Will post full pic of bike once she is dressed... finished with bar tape etc.


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## Dummyrunner (May 25, 2011)

Finished (pretty much) and test ridden and am pretty pleased with myself. First real build where I've pretty much done everything. The only brand new parts are the guards, bar tape, rear inner tube and rim liner, and cables.

Future changes will be a smaller chainring (from 52 down to 46 or similar) and the 7 speed cog changed to one with a bit more range high to low. Probably will replace the bottem bracket as well. I'm also not in love with the pedals and while I'm doing all that the wheel bearings will get some love. Maybe a new seat too.

Regrets... should have got boys at my lbs to do the bar tape. Looks ok for my first go at it but they would have got it perfect. Also, I should have put the money I spent on recovering the seat into a new one. Really unhappy with the job they did there.

All up it has cost me about $300 NZD which I guess is about $225 USD. Comments welcome.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

*Looking good!*



Dummyrunner said:


> Comments welcome.


You gonna remove 30% of that "10 Speed" decal?
Hey man, the mudguards grew!

>Finished (pretty much) and test ridden and am pretty pleased with myself. First real build where I've pretty much done everything. <
Congrats :thumbsup:

> I'm also not in love with the pedals and while I'm doing all that the wheel bearings will get some love.<
What`s wrong with them? Don`t turn smoothly, or the size/shape isn`t right for you? Hopefully the bearing lovin will help out.

> should have got boys at my lbs to do the bar tape. Looks ok for my first go at it but they would have got it perfect.<
You did right by wrapping them yourself. Everybody`s first attempt looks like crap, but you`ll never get to the second or third wrap (which will be much better) if you don`t mangle the first one first.

> Also, I should have put the money I spent on recovering the seat into a new one. Really unhappy with the job they did there.<
Yeah, it does look kind of dumpy. I`ve never heard of somebody recovering one- it was worth a try though.

> The rims themselves are uber cool made in the USA which I will keep forever.<
Forever? Hmmm....


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## Dummyrunner (May 25, 2011)

rodar y rodar said:


> You gonna remove 30% of that "10 Speed" decal?
> Hey man, the mudguards grew!
> 
> >Finished (pretty much) and test ridden and am pretty pleased with myself. First real build where I've pretty much done everything. <
> ...


7 - Speed just doesn't quite have the same ring. And yea, I went with the new guards. 40% off in lbs and I couldn't resist. Should stop my backside from getting too wet in miserable days though.

Bottem bracket was from the donor bike to fit the cranks but is just a smidge short so the lock ring isn't on. Wheel bearings just feel a smidge grindy. It's not much, but it's there.

I ride to work in work boots (steel caps) so not sure what to do about the pedals. May just put some normal flats on.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

The wheel bearings are "grindy" or the bottom bracket? If you can`t get a lockring on the BB, it`ll keep tightening up as you pedal.

No, toe clips aren`t made with work boots in mind. They do make deeper ones, but they might not be deep enough, and I have no idea if you can get them there. I bought a pair once, from Peter White I think. I was able to adjust Powergrips for my boots, though then they were too loose for my shoes, and readjusting isn`t as easy as regular straps, so I finally ditched them and went to BMX pedals. They aren`t pretty, but they really do work well.

You aren`t in Wellington, are you? I hope you don`t have to climb out of RPK`s gorge with no granny gear!


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

Nice job completing your project and getting the_ 10 speed_ rolling. :thumbsup: The bar tape looks pretty good to me. I missed how you solved the brake problem - did you just use the originals instead of the donor set?


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## Dummyrunner (May 25, 2011)

mtbxplorer said:


> Nice job completing your project and getting the_ 10 speed_ rolling. :thumbsup: The bar tape looks pretty good to me. I missed how you solved the brake problem - did you just use the originals instead of the donor set?


Hi, and sorry, yes I did just end up using the originals. I rekon I could rig up extensions for the clamps if I really wanted too. Personally, I'm really surprised there arn't any actual pads that drop down but the existing ones are fine for this bikes purpose.


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## Dummyrunner (May 25, 2011)

rodar y rodar said:


> The wheel bearings are "grindy" or the bottom bracket? If you can`t get a lockring on the BB, it`ll keep tightening up as you pedal.
> 
> You aren`t in Wellington, are you? I hope you don`t have to climb out of RPK`s gorge with no granny gear!


It's the wheel bearings that are grindy, and its only really noticible when you turn the axle in your fingers with the wheels off.

No, not in Wellington. My hometown is Mount Maunganui, which is on the East Coast of the North Island. It's pretty flat for my commute between home and work. I save the hills for the Mountain Bike.


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