# Just bought a frame for my next build!!!



## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

They're practically giving away 29er frames over at performancebike.com:

http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1062473_-1_52500_20000_53000

They have 4 or 5 frames for sale for $99. How could you not buy one?

I think I'm going to sell my Kona Dawg and built a killer 9er hardtail. I've been itching to build one for a while. Might sit in the garage for a while, but at a $200 discount, I had to jump on it. I love a new project!!


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## Gary the No-Trash Cougar (Oct 14, 2008)

Nice! No better winter project than starting a new build. Is it going to be a commuter, trail bike or all-purpose? 29er HTs can be a lot of fun, I thoroughly enjoy mine. Keep us updated!


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## 08HardRock (Sep 7, 2007)

I wish I had a greater knowledge of building, this seems like it could be a lot of fun.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Main purpose will be full time mountain bike duties, especially if I sell the Kona in order to build it. Big fat knobbies. But I think I'm going to do a nice suspension fork with lockout, and run the same brake rotor size as my commuter cyclocross bike, so I can just throw the 'cross wheelset on it and have a street friendly 9er for occasional commuting duties.


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## Gary the No-Trash Cougar (Oct 14, 2008)

That's a great idea! I would be worried about having to adjust the calipers with each wheel swap, but then again my only experience with disc brakes is with BB5s.:madman:


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

08HardRock said:


> I wish I had a greater knowledge of building, this seems like it could be a lot of fun.


Just dive in! everything you need to know is online (park tool's website is an awesome resource). It's really not hard. You can buy a sweet set of tools with the money you save not buying a complete bike, and the end result is EXACTLY what you want. I can't see ever buying a complete bike again, honestly. It would have to be a crazy deal for me to accept someone else's idea of what the right bike for me would be.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Gary the No-Trash Cougar said:


> That's a great idea! I would be worried about having to adjust the calipers with each wheel swap, but then again my only experience with disc brakes is with BB5s.:madman:


My experience has been that the rotors that come with hydraulic systems (hayes at least) are a bit fatter than mechanical disc rotors... having mechanical discs on the commuter, and hydraulics on the 9er will make it fairly easy to throw the c'muter wheels on there, because you can compensate for the skinnier rotor by just adjusting lever travel at the handlebar...no messing with calipers at all, if you're lucky. Or you could just make sure that all 4 rotors were the same thickness, then it shouldn't require any adjustment at all.


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## jkmacman (Mar 5, 2009)

> They have 4 or 5 frames for sale for $99. How could you not buy one?


f that. niners are for girly men.

if you commuting like the geico ad says 'shoot i'm a pot hole, i ain't got a phone"

what you need a niners for that?


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## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

jkmacman said:


> f that. niners are for girly men.
> 
> if you commuting like the geico ad says 'shoot i'm a pot hole, i ain't got a phone"
> 
> what you need a niners for that?


Did you not read what his plan was? He's looking at a 9er because he can run knobbies for singletrack and then swap wheelsets and use cross wheels for street/commuting duty...


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

jkmacman said:


> f that. niners are for girly men.
> 
> if you commuting like the geico ad says 'shoot i'm a pot hole, i ain't got a phone"
> 
> what you need a niners for that?


Wha? This will be replacing my full suspension trailbike. I'll still commute on the 'cross bike primarily. Although a mile or so of my commute is on dirt. Just thought the fine people in the commuting forum would want to know.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Swapability rules! Mine are all rim brakes, so I have to give the brake adjuster a few turns for some combos, but I frequently swap wheels back and forth- mostly due to tire size, but when I upgrade my headlight I`ll keep the old one and be able to have an instant dyno system on all my 26ers.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

08HardRock said:


> I wish I had a greater knowledge of building, this seems like it could be a lot of fun.


If you want to, go for it- like C.B. says, Park Tool has a lot of step by step instructions. So does Sheldon Brown and the internet forums are great for asking questions when you get stumped.

The biggest plusses are that you can put together exactly what you want and that you`ll be better able to handle mechanical problems in the field if you have a grip on all the aspects of your bike. It also saves repair bills by being capable and confident to work on your own ride AND since you`re the one riding it you can very often get a better diagnosis of problems or potential problems than a shop mechanic who only spins the pedals on the stand and takes it for a lap around the parking lot. If you ever run into a specific problem that you can`t get straightened out, there`s no rule that says you can`t throw in the towel and go to the pros for help.

About saving money on a build- it`s pretty tough to beat the price of a complete bike. I`m sure it can be done by buying used parts or watching for killer sales and just squirelling parts away for a long time, but I`ve never accomplished it. BTW, there aren`t all that many special purpose tools needed and most of them are relatively cheap.


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## jkmacman (Mar 5, 2009)

i swap tires on this bike frequently










road 45 miles on tuesday w/nevagal + conti mtn king in woods and road, then wed did 22 miles on road w/ all terrainasuaur

if the frame is 99 bux, okay, but then two sets of wheels, 2 sets of tires and components, i think a used bike may be a better deal; just my 2 cents

on this webiste a ss for $185 is a better value as a comuter. but I'm 5' 9.5" too small for a niner? maybe although some shorter than me drank the cool aid


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

rodar y rodar said:


> About saving money on a build- it`s pretty tough to beat the price of a complete bike. I`m sure it can be done by buying used parts or watching for killer sales and just squirelling parts away for a long time, but I`ve never accomplished it.


I gotta disagree... looking at typical prices on the parts on my last build (cyclocross commuter) it would be well over $1500, and I put (maybe) $1100 into it. Plus, it's the only one like it in the world...how do you put a price on that?

So far on this bike, I have bought one part: the frame. List price is $299, I got it for $99. I'm currently eyeing a $600 fork at pricepoint for $350... I don't have any intention of paying full price for anything. The deals are always out there, and you can always come out ahead.

I hear you, there are some killer deals on complete bikes out there, but the end result is still something I immeidately want to customize to make it my own. I'd rather start from scratch personally. I'm in control of the deals I get on individual parts, and I get exactly what I want every step of the way.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

jkmacman said:


> if the frame is 99 bux, okay, but then two sets of wheels, 2 sets of tires and components, i think a used bike may be a better deal; just my 2 cents


Where's the fun in riding someone else's bike? I could get a craigslist huffy for $50 bucks too...

First, I already have the second set of wheels on my cyclocross bike. Making them swappable would just be a cool novelty for the occasional road ride.

Second, this is my new bike. I'm selling a $2000 trail bike in order build my next killer mountian bike. I'm going to build it from the ground up, exactly like I want it. I'm going to spend at least $1000 doing it, using seed money I get from selling my old bike. I will spend the winter in my basement like a mad scientist, obsessing over every detail. Do you people not see the joy in what is about to happen here? Sure, I could get a sweet used bike for $1500, or even $500, but that is not even close to the point. Building a bike is like therapy. I am bringing something to life from a pile of lifeless parts. I am adding to the number of sweet bikes in the world. I am deciding what a bike should be like, for me and the trails I like to ride.

Stop sucking the joy out of my moment!! Fun suckers!! :lol:


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## jkmacman (Mar 5, 2009)

> I gotta disagree... looking at typical prices on the parts on my last build (cyclocross commuter) it would be well over $1500, and I put (maybe) $1100 into it. Plus, it's the only one like it in the world...how do you put a price on that?


i dunno where to or from you commute to, but this seems like a lot of money for a commuter bike

i agree if you need specific stuff, roll your own, but if you just need a bike. you can often get a used road bike in a garage sale for 20 bux


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

jkmacman said:


> i dunno where to or from you commute to, but this seems like a lot of money for a commuter bike
> 
> i agree if you need specific stuff, roll your own, but if you just need a bike. you can often get a used road bike in a garage sale for 20 bux


Huge difference between need and want .:thumbsup:


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

It IS a lot of money. And please don`t make me count up what I have into mine- if I knew, I might one day talk in my sleep and I`d be sunk for sure 

Yes, you can get a bike for $20 at a garage sale, and you could get a dang good bike for $200 from Craigslist. Unfortunately, AZ MTNS is also right.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

To the O.P. please keep this updated as I am sure I am not the only one that finds this of interest .


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

^^ I will.



jkmacman said:


> i dunno where to or from you commute to, but this seems like a lot of money for a commuter bike
> 
> i agree if you need specific stuff, roll your own, but if you just need a bike. you can often get a used road bike in a garage sale for 20 bux


I commute from home to work. :lol:

I save about $500 in gas every year riding to work, and I don't have many other vices. Last year I spend about $3.50 on alcohol, for example. I like nice bikes. I like nice cars too, but I can afford nice bikes. I don't see a problem with putting a little money into something that saves me hundreds of dollars a year, makes me healthier, provides me with an outlet for stress, and generally improves every other area of my life. Maybe it's just me...


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

CommuterBoy said:


> Last year I spend about $3.50 on alcohol,


That is why I think you are weird.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

^^ That's fine, and understandable. . Just don't think I'm weird for having a nice bike.


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

If you set the frame up as a drop bar, I'll consider everything even. Feel free to hit me (this forum) up as you meticulously plan your commuter.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

I have oversized drop bars, levers, and stem sitting in my shop already...I took them off of the commuter when I switched to bullhorns...but I don't think I'm going to use them. I'm going full mountain bike with this one at this point. For one thing, I want to use hydraulic discs, and there aren't drop-bar levers for hydraulic discs as far as I know. 

BUT the entirely different route that I could go is selling the 'cross bike and making this new 29er the commuting machine. If I did that I'd keep my full suspension Kona for mountian duties, and then I'd run drop bars on this one for sure. 

Also, don't think I haven't considered swapping the rigid carbon fork and most of the other parts off of my 'cross bike to make this thing happen overnight. I could have a pretty sick rigid drop bar 29er, with maybe some 2.5" slicks or something... I'm still marinating in the endless possibilities.


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## Gary the No-Trash Cougar (Oct 14, 2008)

I'd say keep your Kona AND build this HT 29er, but I'm bike obsessed. It's probably still a great idea to sell it for seed money if you're not really going to use it anyway.

For those of you still confused or not reading posts all the way through, maybe I can help by arranging an outline.

CB plans on:
1. Selling his dual boinger
2. Building a hardtail 29er *for trail use*
3. Occasionally swapping over the 700c wheels from his commuter, just for kicks
4. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people

I think it's a great idea. While turn-key solutions are great, building and/or customizing your own whip gives you the opportunity to set it up exactly the way you want instead of settling for whatever the manufacturer or LBS decided was best for you.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Drop bar 29er , then I can live vicariously thru your build .


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

^^ I'll put the drops on it at some point in the build and take a picture, just so you can drool on it. 

I'd love to keep the Kona... I do use it quite a bit. Keeping it is an option, it would just make this project take a loooooonnng time. I might be OK with that. We'll see how impatient I get...


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## Gary the No-Trash Cougar (Oct 14, 2008)

Also remember, there may be trails where you might actually benefit from riding a 26" bike, like twisty trails with tight switchbacks. A lot of people are also of the mind that dual sus is the only way to go with those trails up there in the Tahoe area (others disagree).


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

I've been a 29er nay-sayer for a long time, at least in terms of tight singlegrack. There are definitely advantages to the 26" wheels...more 'flickable' if you will. And yes, there are parts of the Tahoe Rim Trail for example that will be a significant challenge on a hardtail, regardless of wheel size. 

I do a couple of day-long epics in the summer though...one charity ride and at least one self imposed torture test...and after 8 hours I'm pretty sick of lugging that Kona uphill. Having both would be sweet, but If I can only have one, I'm wanting to give a hardtail a shot for a while... if it sucks I'll sell it for a profit and buy another Kona. :lol:


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## Gary the No-Trash Cougar (Oct 14, 2008)

That's the only way to go! There's little doubt you'd be able to find a reasonable buyer. I tend to favor hardtails myself, then again I don't have a terribly aggressive riding style and tend to stick to the tamer trails anyway. My 29er definitely feels more like a "fire road bike" to me, but I'm sure in the hands of a more skilled rider it would not be as much of a problem.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Drop bars on ST are a blast!


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

but its aluminum


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

^^ :lol: 

So is my Kona. And my commuter. Neener neener. Welcome to the 1900's.


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

CommuterBoy said:


> ^^ :lol:
> 
> So is my Kona. And my commuter. Neener neener. Welcome to the 1900's.


Its fine for you guys but ive had a bad experience with aluminum


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## umarth (Dec 5, 2007)

nuck_chorris said:


> ive had a bed experience with aluminum


That must have caused some chafing.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

People have had steel frames break too though... I can understand being leery of it if you've had it fail though. 

Motocross frames are aluminum (even the ones with steel frames use an aluminum swing arm), the clasps on my climbing harness are aluminum (so are the ones on parachute harnesses). Caribiners and other climbing equipment are aluminum. Your rims are probably aluminum. Personally I trust the stuff.


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## jkmacman (Mar 5, 2009)

back in the day (1970's) i had a bike frame break. it was a silver italia, and I have to believe that the bike was steel. it broke were top tube and front tube meet, probably a common location for breaks

i replaced that frame w/my sister's puch (red), but i had an untimely accident
tequila and bicycling are not a good mix


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

CommuterBoy said:


> People have had steel frames break too though... I can understand being leery of it if you've had it fail though.
> 
> Motocross frames are aluminum (even the ones with steel frames use an aluminum swing arm), the clasps on my climbing harness are aluminum (so are the ones on parachute harnesses). Caribiners and other climbing equipment are aluminum. Your rims are probably aluminum. Personally I trust the stuff.


one mans (me)garbage is another mans(you guys) treasure. don't get me wrong aluminum has some uses (downhill bikes) but for me its gone bad(chainring bolts, chainrings, rigid frames , cogs, etc.)


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

I`ll go for steel frames before aluminum too, but I have nothing against aluminum. It`s just like I go for apple-cinnamon oatmeal before I go for maple. Eventually I`ll eat it all. Well, I seriously doubt you`ll ever catch me eating the carbon fiber flavor. I`ll let the racerboys keep that ugly stuff.


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

rodar y rodar said:


> I`ll go for steel frames before aluminum too, but I have nothing against aluminum. It`s just like I go for apple-cinnamon oatmeal before I go for maple. Eventually I`ll eat it all. Well, I seriously doubt you`ll ever catch me eating the carbon fiber flavor. I`ll let the racerboys keep that ugly stuff.


uh, i disagree, I really want a Carbon SS frame, for offroad of course , i know i will never get one but a man can dream.....


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

nuck_chorris said:


> uh, i disagree, I really want a Carbon SS frame, for offroad of course , i know i will never get one but a man can dream.....


?????
You have alumnophobia and you want to ride a plastic bike offroad? Wow!


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

rodar y rodar said:


> ?????
> You have alumnophobia and you want to ride a plastic bike offroad? Wow!


its stronger than aluminum any day, do you know anything about carbon? element 14 FTW


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## jkmacman (Mar 5, 2009)

i have 2 carbon road bikes, but carbon mtb freaks me out:madman:


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## Maximus_XXIV (Jun 7, 2009)

If carbon freaks you out, stay out of new commercial airliners! They are making the entire body and wing structures out of it now for weight and to prevent fatigue issues.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

:ihih: Niner Air 9. I'd love one of those. But this frame was $99, those are $700. What are you doing to do? 

I had a Schwinn 'S' Series carbon full suspension mtb. It was a '98 or a '99. They were pretty similar to the Trek Y Frames. That was a sweet bike. Full suspension is different than rigid in terms of fatigue, I know, but it was one of the first carbon bikes. Carbon has come a long way. The part of the frame behind the headtube was this big fat section, and you could grab it and push your thumbs into it and see the frame flex. I was worried about it until I saw a guy at a bike shop (he had a blemished frame that he used just for this purpose) take a hammer and just wail away on this carbon frame. He was showing no mercy,and other than chipping the paint, there was no visible damage. I felt pretty confident riding that bike after that. 

Oh, and the swing arm was aluminum. haha.



My new frame has left West Virginia, by the way. I'm playing the FedEx tracking waiting game.


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## jkmacman (Mar 5, 2009)

> Schwinn 'S' Series carbon full suspension mtb


this sounds like an oxymoron


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

One of these, but mine was green and black:










It was a sweet bike. I liked the geometry, and the suspension was kind of unique...you are standing on the swing arm, so when you stand up and hammer, you basically lock out the suspension. When you sat town, it would get mushy. You could determine suspension travel by how much weight was on your feet, and how much was on your butt. It was a pretty good climber because of this same weirdness. Power to the pedals = less suspension. There were a few other frames of the era using this set-up...it was called "Unified Rear Triangle" if I recall correctly.


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

oh just to clarify im not talking about a FS carbon , im talking about fully rigid SS carbon

ex: Gary fisher superfly SS


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Would you ride a FS aluminum frame, knowing that the suspension reduces frame fatigue?


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

nuck_chorris said:


> its stronger than aluminum any day, do you know anything about carbon? element 14 FTW


Admittedly very little. To be quite honest, with the way lawsuits fly around in this country, I can`t imagine that so many of the big players would risk losing thier butts with that many products if they were inherently dangerous. That theory applies to both aluminum and CF. Even so, I have to say that C.B.`s report of the hammer vs demo frame surprises me A LOT.


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

CommuterBoy said:


> Would you ride a FS aluminum frame, knowing that the suspension reduces frame fatigue?


as I mentioned above I would ride a down hill bike which is in the catagory of FS aluminum frames


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

When you see the results of this amazing build you will run out and buy an aluminum hardtail :lol:


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## jkmacman (Mar 5, 2009)

i was hesitant to use a cf bike on the trainor, but wouldn't trainors have to have disclaimers on them if they busted cf bikes w/wreckless abandon???


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## jasevr4 (Feb 23, 2005)

Nice one CommuterBoy. Congrats on the fun ahead.

I've been looking for a bargain disk specific sscx frame for a while now but haven't had much luck. One day!


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

CommuterBoy said:


> When you see the results of this amazing build you will run out and buy an aluminum hardtail :lol:


I had thought about it but then i realized two things: 1: its aluminum 2: standard vertical drops


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Aren`t trainers where people usually leave the bike that has some kind of problem or is their least favorite? I could be wrong, butI imagine it`s a lot easier on a bike than any other use.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

nuck_chorris said:


> I had thought about it but then i realized two things: 1: its aluminum 2: standard vertical drops


OH, that's right, you're one of THEM.


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

CommuterBoy said:


> OH, that's right, you're one of THEM.


arent you?


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## jkmacman (Mar 5, 2009)

> Aren`t trainers where people usually leave the bike that has some kind of problem or is their least favorite? I could be wrong, butI imagine it`s a lot easier on a bike than any other use.


i just gave my brother a rear rim w/trainor speficic tire (yellow conti).

i think he said he uses a lotus bicycle on an old school trainor (the thing looks like a bike floor fan), he definately said he don't ride outside, as I told him the yellow conti cannot be used any place except on the trainor.

we're in the nyc metro area, and i totally understand if folks don't want to ride outside as he's not the first person in this area to express that the only ride inside

he thought the rim was from itally cause the skewer said made it itally, the skewer i had gotton from the guy that gave me/leant me the trainor

can i use my mtb on a trainor? i had an alum road bike, but swapped out the frame since it was too big

maybe rollers are better for mtb?

this is the bike i use on the trainor. dig the big kick a$$ xtr rear d.r, pity i couldn''t make it up gate hill w/o water break









small side of lake welch, harriman, ny. too bad no real mtb allowed here, we go over to ringwood for the mtb


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

If it has wheels, you can use it on a trainer. Slicks would be waaaaay more user-friendly on a MTB on a trainer.

But let's get back to how incredibly cool my new bike is going to be. You'll be happy to know I've decided to hold off on selling the Kona until I see how well Santa is going to treat me this year. The idea of having a hardtail and a full suspension trail bike is way too exciting to not at least shoot for. If I have to use mehanical discs and some lower end parts, it would be worth it to have two MTB's in the quiver.


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## jkmacman (Mar 5, 2009)

> have to use mehanical discs and some lower end parts, it would be worth it to have two MTB's in the quiver.


make the ht a ss.

i have 2 sets of wheels w/discs (avid juicy), while the breaks work great, they're incredibly squeky, lbs said use some rubing alcohol, it quiets them a bit, but the squek always comes out,

also on the newer nicer wheelset (mavics) there hand bult but the rear wheel bolt that locks on hub keeps loosening up. i'm almost tempted to go back to wrench that built them, but i don't want to end up buying more stuff i can't afford


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

I have BB7's on the commuter, no squeak at all. Hayes Hydraulics on the mtb, no squeak there either. Squeak comes from pad/rotor interface. One or the other can be changed to eliminate the squeak. The right pads will make your squeak go away. 

As for single speed...not on this one. I'm building it with an 8 hour event in Tahoe in mind. SS is trendy and all, but it's about as functional as a plastic hammer for something like the Tahoe Rim Trail. Low maintenance and good looks is about all SS has going for it in my opinion. If I build a SS, it will be another 24" cruiser size bmx play bike. 

Put locktite on your rear wheel bolt. It's not the mechanics fault. You can also rough up the area on the dropouts where the bolt rests, and rough up the flange of the bolt itself (that contacts the droupout), so it's not a smooth-on-smooth situation. That by itself will probably keep it from loosening. 

...now back to how cool my bike is going to be, hijacker.


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## jkmacman (Mar 5, 2009)

> ...now back to how cool my bike is going to be, hijacker


i didn't hi jack the thread, you're taling about a $99 frame from performance bike, for an 8 hour race next year at tahoe:band:


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

^^ Correct, and you're talking about what bike you can use on your train"or" and disc brake problems, and posting pictures of two (2) of your own bikes. ...just sayin. It is my party, after all.



nuck_chorris said:


> arent you?


Why yes... yes I am.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

My frame is in Sacramento! Anyone down there want to run it up the hill for me?


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Time for a sick day. Still got any of that piggy cough with you?


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Just about over it... could totally justify a day off though. Only problem is all I will have is a frame to stare at. That could get old by about lunch time.


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## jflurett (May 7, 2008)

CommuterBoy said:


> Stop sucking the joy out of my moment!! Fun suckers!! :lol:


Reminded me of South Park:

Cartman: I think Sexual Harassment Panda is cool.

Stan: You would think that, you little ass-sucker.

Cartman: What did you call me?

Stan: An ass-sucker. It means you suck ass. You see an ass, you suck it. You're an ass-sucker.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

It's here! and I'm sending it back! Chalk it up to ignorance of 29ers, but this thing is huge. Comparing and measuring it up with my other frames, it's scary big. I'm going to be near a Performance shop over Thanksgiving week, so I ordered the next size down and I'm returning this one. I'm going to eat it on shipping for the new one, which will bring the total price of my new frame to $130...worth it to get the right size though. I'm mad at myself for not reading more reviews before I pulled the trigger...everyone says to order a size down from normal. Live and learn.


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

CommuterBoy said:


> It's here! and I'm sending it back! Chalk it up to ignorance of 29ers, but this thing is huge. Comparing and measuring it up with my other frames, it's scary big. I'm going to be near a Performance shop over Thanksgiving week, so I ordered the next size down and I'm returning this one. I'm going to eat it on shipping for the new one, which will bring the total price of my new frame to $130...worth it to get the right size though. I'm mad at myself for not reading more reviews before I pulled the trigger...everyone says to order a size down from normal. Live and learn.


thats aluminum for you!


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

^^ :lol: 

It must have gotten wet or something during shipping and swelled up. If it were steel I'm sure this wouldn't have happened.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Doh! Well, better luck with the replacement.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

...It's not like I'm in a huge hurry. I might as well get it right.


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## Gary the No-Trash Cougar (Oct 14, 2008)

CommuterBoy said:


> ^^ :lol:
> 
> It must have gotten wet or something during shipping and swelled up. If it were steel I'm sure this wouldn't have happened.


No, it would just have rusted to slag instead.


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

Gary the No-Trash Cougar said:


> No, it would just have rusted to slag instead.


well thats no prob for a carbon or TI frame , unless theres some kind of fire invovled:nono:


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## Ronin Six (Oct 1, 2009)

Are you gonna hang existing/spare parts on it and build up from there? What's on your shopping list of parts to get for this?

BTW, I just ordered one of these frames myself as a parts mule for a component transplant from my decade-old 'vintage' alu HT rigs (one has 1" steerer, other has U-brakes, both of which have held up fantastic with years of hard riding btw). Swapping out what I can, and getting shiny new parts from what's not compatible. Will slowly upgrade much of the old parts over time, of course.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Well I was going to sell my FS Kona and do this up as my main trail bike with all new parts, but getting rid of my full suspension trail bike is sounding like less and less of a good idea the more I think about it. So my new plan is to hold out until after Christmas (we'll see what Santa and the wife can pull off) and see what's left to buy. I have an extensive christmas list from pricepoint :lol:
I also have a birthday over the holidays, so I could wind up with a fairly complete bike by January. At that point I'll see about 'borrowing' some parts from the Kona to make it rideable while I continue to gather enough goodies to have them both fully complete. 

The problem is that the expensive stuff (wheels and fork) aren't swappable, and I don't know if Santa has that much coin. Stealing the 29er wheels off of the cyclocross commuter is not my first choice, but it might come down to that, at least temporarily. 

As far as what I want... strong wheels, suspension fork w/lockout, 3x9 speed drivetrain, and hydraulic discs are on the 'must have' list. Everything else is negotiable.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

My 21" frame is finally here. So glad I swapped it out. Totally happy with the sizing of the 21.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

So, I'm a teacher. I teach 'special' classes for kids with behavior problems... and I had what I thought was a classic idea for this bike. What if I got some big Specialized frame stickers, and cut them up so that it said "_SPECIAL ED_" on the downtube?... if I did it right you'd have to look twice to realize that it wasn't a Specialized.


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## Ronin Six (Oct 1, 2009)

LOL I did that to my helmet once. Go for it!


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## Gary the No-Trash Cougar (Oct 14, 2008)

CommuterBoy said:


> So, I'm a teacher. I teach 'special' classes for kids with behavior problems... and I had what I thought was a classic idea for this bike. What if I got some big Specialized frame stickers, and cut them up so that it said "_SPECIAL ED_" on the downtube?... if I did it right you'd have to look twice to realize that it wasn't a Specialized.


Now that you've said it, you *HAVE* to do it!


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

Gary the No-Trash Cougar said:


> Now that you've said it, you *HAVE* to do it!


+1:thumbsup: remember to take pictures of it


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Sounds good, unless it offends one of your students or a parent. I don`t know what the atmosphere is around there, so maybe that isn`t a concern.


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## Ronin Six (Oct 1, 2009)

Or, if you're feeling especially creative, you can do any of these anagrams of the word: http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=specialized&t=1000&a=n

How about "Epic Size Lad"? 

(But even more fun if you have two sets... ie. "Acidic Diesel Pizza Pee".)


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

The big S company will prob. sue you .


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

...Found some on eBay...for 5 bucks I have to give it a go. I probably won't ride this bike to work very often, but yeah, my only concern would be offending a parent who dropped by the room...honestly most of my students couldn't tell the difference between 'specialized' and 'special ed' if their grade depended on it.

:lol: I think my favorite anagrams are "Ace Sized Lip" and "Capsize Deli"


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

FYI, I was surprised to find threaded mounts for racks and fenders on this frame. It would definitely make a very cool drop bar 29er commuter.


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## Gary the No-Trash Cougar (Oct 14, 2008)

That's cool. I miss that on newer frames. Mountain bikes are supposed to be the do-it-all versatile bike.


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## Jvan_wert (Apr 8, 2007)

You all are out of control. "No limit Commuters" Next thing you know someone will be designing machine gun mounts for congested cross walks and grenade dispensers for heavy traffic.


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## Gary the No-Trash Cougar (Oct 14, 2008)

Jvan_wert said:


> You all are out of control. "No limit Commuters" Next thing you know someone will be designing machine gun mounts for congested cross walks and grenade dispensers for heavy traffic.


Damn.... you know what, _that's a really good idea!!!!_


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

SPECIAL(iz)ED stickers are in the mail. :lol:


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Well I had a birthday and a visit from Santa in the same week. 

I have Race Face cranks, Michelin tires, Easton monkey bar, and Hayes HFX 9's with 7 inch rotors in the basement, and WTB wheels in the mail. 

I still need to find 3x9 shifters, derailleurs, and a fork. I'm going to hold out for a Reba or similar suspension fork. It will be a few months. There are several other odds and ends to get too obviously, but good progress over the holidays! 
Bummer thing is that you can't really make it look like a bike without a fork....still a pile of parts basically. 

I'll post pics soon...


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Spy shot from the basement laboratory: 


:lol:


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

bwahahhaha!! fugging ace! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## Gary the No-Trash Cougar (Oct 14, 2008)

Heh heh.


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

it does look nice(the sticker) but i could see how people could confuse it with a specialized


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

^ That would be the goal. 

Turns out there's a dude on eBay making Specialized frame stickers for cheap. The logo in the middle came with my Hyperlite wakeboard. Different but similar Hyperlite logo on the other side. 

Got my wheels today... huge piece of the puzzle. 

Going with 7 inch rotors means that I can't swap out wheelsets with my commuter as easily, but I can swap rotors for the novelty factor of turning my commuter into a monstercross occasionally. And I think I'm set on ghetto tubeless for this bike. 'bout time to try that out and see if it's all it's hyped up to be.


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## Ronin Six (Oct 1, 2009)

Awesome. Can't wait to see this built up.

Weren't there Access markings on the downtube, or did you remove/cover those somehow?

(I realize you work with DD kids, but extra points if you're name is actually Ed too. LOL)


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

I didn't/couldn't do anything about the ACCESS logo on the downtube...I just went right over it. It's basically a smooth finish where the rest of the bike is a satin finish...it will show up in some kinds of light, but the power of the Special Ed will overpower it every time. :lol:

I think they put the clearcoat over the top of the decals that say 'access'. 

Stoked on the wheel/tire combo... Michelin AT's on WTB speed discs


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## fux (Oct 21, 2006)

Looking good.

I realy like the idea of having interchangeable (is that a word?) wheelset.

I have a Niner Sir9 along with the LaCruz. This year I killed my front wheel on the Niner just 2 days before the final of our local race series. The wheels on the LaCruz are pretty heavy but it was better than having to watch from the sidelines.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

^^ That's why I didn't go with a monster 2.3 or bigger tire for this bike... I'm pretty sure I can clear these 2.0's on the commuter (Nashbar 'X' cyclocross) frame/fork...but it will be close. As soon as we're out of winter and I can ditch the fenders on the commuter, I'm going to give it a shot. No way I'd clear them with the fenders. 

It also means that I can throw the commuter wheels on this bike... 700x35 cyclocross tires currently. I also have a drop bar I could throw on, but I'd have to swap out the brakes for a mechanical set or get really creative with lever mounts on the drop bars.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

I just hit that rediculous sale at Pricepoint and ordered some Sram X.5 shifters (from what I gather, they're basically X.7's with plastic levers instead of metal. OK by me. I've been using the same LX 8 speed rear shifter on various bikes for 10+ years with no issues. I've never used the Sram thumb/thumb thing though... hopefully an easy thing to adapt to. 

Also ordered a Titec seatpost. They have a crazy deal on a manitou fork, but a crazy deal is still pushing $300 for a decent 29er suspension fork... I'm holding out for a craigslist score. And some more money. 

For those keeping track, so far I'm (personally) in to this bike for $190. Yay for birthdays and santa. I'll figure out an actuall cost total at some point.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

More stuff! 

This completes it with the exception of a fork. I'm going to hold out for a nice fork. I'm going to hold out for a nice fork. I'm going to hold out for a nice fork. If I say it enough maybe I'll actually be patient. 

That brings the grand total for this bike up to about $700 (about 400 of that was santa/birthday gifts...so personally, I'm in for about $350 now). I'll hopefully spend under $300 on a nice (used) Reba or Fox fork, and make it about an even $1000. That's a solid build for 1K. I can't wait to ride this thing.

Edit: I am going tubeless, by the way. I ordered the tubes just to have on standby and for trailside emergency use...


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

CommuterBoy said:


> Edit: I am going tubeless, by the way. I ordered the tubes just to have on standby and for trailside emergency use...


Oh, I get it- no undies for you, no undies for your tires. Tooo smooooth, CB!

Seriously, it sounds like you`re getting really close. When do you expect it on the road? Maybe you can dig up an interim fork somehow?


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

I'm tempted to spend a little on a craigslist rigid fork just so I can ride it, but since I have another bike(s), I should probably just save the money and do it right the first time. I'm trying to sell some other stuff on craigslist, so it could be a couple of weeks, could be a couple of months... I'm getting no help from a tax return this year, so that route is not an option. Wife said something about how she's 6 months pregnant and we need baby stuff.... lame excuse.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

CommuterBoy said:


> Wife said something about how she's 6 months pregnant and we need baby stuff.... lame excuse.


You`re not going to fall for that one, are you? Give it another three or four months and I bet she changes her tune.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

^^ If she's still pregnant in 4 months I'm going to NEED a new bike just to maintain my sanity 

...got my box of goodies yesterday. Nothing like coming home to a box of new bike parts. Looking forward to building this thing up. I'm liking the parts I was able to score for it. Hopefully I can round up a couple hundred bucks and find a killer deal on a nice used fork before all the snow melts...we'll see.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Yeah, we`ll see what kind of fork you end up buying!








Anyway, good luck and congratulations.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

^^ ain't that the truth. Thanks, by the way. It's #3 though, so we've got a few forks laying around already. :lol:

I'm tempted to throw this thing together with the carbon rigid fork off of my cyclocross bike and drop bars... just for a while so I can ride it to work until I get a fork for it. But I also want to put it all together at once, so it's all 'new' at the same time. I think I'll get the derailleurs, chain, cassette, rear brake, seat/seatpost on there this weekend and then see if I can stop myself before I tear into the 'cross bike.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Progress....


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## martinsillo (Jul 31, 2009)

:lol: hope your aim throwing dart has improved these days!

are you going full rigid? or thinking on a suspension on front?


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

For a challenge I spin the wheel and throw the darts between the spokes while it's moving. :lol: And all those holes in the wall are from ONE afternoon when someone else's kids were visiting. I thought the darts were put away... 

I'm wanting a nice suspension fork with lockout (Rock Shox Reba, Fox F29) but I'm nowhere near being able to afford it. Trying to decide if it's worth selling the Full Suspension MTB to get a killer fork for this one... I'm SO close to having 3 bikes, I hate to give one up. I've always wanted a nice full suspension and a nice hardtail in the stable. Trying to be patient.


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## Gary the No-Trash Cougar (Oct 14, 2008)

CommuterBoy said:


> For a challenge I spin the wheel and throw the darts between the spokes while it's moving. :lol: And all those holes in the wall are from ONE afternoon when someone else's kids were visiting. I thought the darts were put away...
> 
> I'm wanting a nice suspension fork with lockout (Rock Shox Reba, Fox F29) but I'm nowhere near being able to afford it. Trying to decide if it's worth selling the Full Suspension MTB to get a killer fork for this one... I'm SO close to having 3 bikes, I hate to give one up. I've always wanted a nice full suspension and a nice hardtail in the stable. Trying to be patient.


Looks like you already have most of the drivetrain components, but I was going to suggest.... you could pick up an inexpensive rigid fork and try it as a single speed rigid, so you can at least start riding it until you've saved up for a nice fork and the rest of the components?


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

^^ I thought about that. But setting it up that way costs a little bit too, and I'd rather save that money and put it towards getting it exactly like I want it the first time around. 

I have the whole drivetrain... sram X.5 shifters, X.9 front D, X.7 rear D (wanted to get the whole range of sram X components represented :lol  Sram 11x34 cassette, RaceFace Ride XC crankset 22/32/44, sram 9 speed chain. 

I could swipe the rigid carbon fork off of my cyclocross commuter and be rolling tomorrow, which I'm very tempted to do, but I ride the commuter every day and this thing will not be as efficient on the road. So I'm just saving my pennies....at least until the snow melts. At that point I might not be able to stand it anymore.


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## gamma ramp (Jan 11, 2010)

I started a build about a month ago when I came across a nice old trek 920
for 50 bucks. 

Unfortunately, the people I took it to for sandblasting and painting called
me friday and claimed it was stolen from them

Thats not even the worst of it.

I paid them 50 bucks initially for the sandblasting and they are not even wanting to give
that back to me or anything else!!

They say I should claim it on my homeowners to which I told them I had a 500 dollar deductible. They were not sympathetic to my loss in even the smallest way.

I have about a dozen new parts sitting here that I bought online and now I'm
gonna have to eat the postage to return all of it seeing as I don't have a frame to 
put it on anymore. 

It's gonna be tough to get any help in small claims court as I really don't have 
much documentation to back me up


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Ouch- that`s outrageous! Gamma, I don`t have the slightest idea what legal recourse you might have against those A-holes, but if you already have the parts, wouldn`t it be a lot easier to replace the frame than return all those new parts?


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

Geez, seems like they owe you $50 for your deposit & another $50 for your bike. Something funny is going on here with the Trek 920s...I reported here a few weeks ago that one I left at work to add to the errand fleet disappeared too...was yours dark green by any chance? Here, small claims is like $35 to file, which you can get back if you win. Before it goes to court, they send out a notice, which the defendant can respond to by either agreeing & sending you a check, or asking for a hearing. But if you have to do that you may miss work, etc. so it might not be worth it. If you paid by check or plastic it would help. 

If you end up out the $, you may be comforted by one of my favorite sayings, "Time wounds all heels".


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

What Rodar said... return shipping on a dozen new parts has to be getting close to $50, which you could use to buy another frame on craigslist.


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## gamma ramp (Jan 11, 2010)

there are not many frames in my area available on craigslist. I searched for more than a month before finding this one and I sunk 35 bucks into it to have a LBS to extract a mangled
BB cup before I even took it to the sandblaster/painter.

I have karma working against me on this one. I can feel it.......


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

There's only one thing to do here... brand new frame. That way you won't have to leave it with any shady painters.


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## hydrogeek (Feb 20, 2006)

*What CB said...*

Here is a link to a decent frame to replace the one you lost. Even includes new paint and a warranty for $99.99.

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_173009_-1_201511_10000_201512


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## Gary the No-Trash Cougar (Oct 14, 2008)

Gamma, did they even file a police report? You should at least be able to obtain a copy from them since it was your property which was burglarized from their business. If not then I would definitely take it to small claims. You'll probably get your money back at the very least.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Hopefully picking up a Rock Shox Reba fork in the morning...seriously amped. 

Came within one email of selling my Kona today, but I decided to buy I fork I can't afford and have two mountain bikes and no money for a while. I just couldn't part with the dual suspension ...not yet. 

Hopefully the short bus will be rolling this week!


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

I have obtained my rediculously nice suspension fork.  

2008 Reba Race... new condition, uncut steerer tube, minimal light use on bike path/dirt roads. Dual Air, lockout... makes me want to upgrade the frame already. $599 on sale at pricepoint... got it for $275  Thank you Craigslist. 

I just ordered my hayes adapter for the front brake...wasn't sure if I'd end up with post mount or international standard since I didn't have a fork... then I just have to mix up my tubeless brew and set up the wheels/tires. Should be hitting the trails this weekend.


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## martinsillo (Jul 31, 2009)

Congrats CB! getting your new parts for your build is just awesome! and that was a nice found!

I got my CK headset and my Salsa seatpost clamp today! :thumbsup:


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

CommuterBoy said:


> ...
> Came within one email of selling my Kona today, but I decided to buy I fork I can't afford and have two mountain bikes and no money for a while. I just couldn't part with the dual suspension ...not yet.


Good call to keep the Kona - otherwise you'd probably be shopping for a dual suspension you can't afford in another month or two 

I have an old Kona Kilauea in the basement I need to find some wheels for - the last time I tried to put studded tires on it the tire lever folded the rim right over from brake wear - glad that happened in the basement & not on the trail!  Loved it though - super manueverable on tight trails.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Brake adapter should get here Tomorrow. Tubeless conversion begins tonight... going with Gorilla Tape method. Pics soon. She's a beauty.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

It's done. Got the brake adapter, stayed up too late, finished the tubeless conversion...shake down ride scheduled immediately after the obligatory new bike photo session


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## martinsillo (Jul 31, 2009)

pics!!!


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

I'll take some better ones in the daylight, but I snapped a couple pics last night on the shakedown ride (because if I'm going lose a bolt that I forgot to tighten, I want it to be dark out...more exciting  ) Did a couple laps around the property by headlamp, and I'm pretty stoked on it. 

Here is the breakdown...everything came from Pricepoint except for the frame and fork. I think I did pretty well... more closely spec'd to the (constantly on sale for) $1600 complete version from Performancebike than their (constantly on sale for) $980 version...


Frame (Performance Access) $99
Fork (Rock Shox Reba Race 2008, Craigslist) $275
Stem (Titec El Norte) $11
Seatpost (Titec Pluto) $15
Handlebar (Easton monkeybar, 31.8) $15
Brakes (Hayes HFX 9, 180mm, 2008) $100
Cranks/BB (RaceFace RideXC) $90
Shifters (Sram X.5 2009) $32
Cassette (Sram PG 970, 11-34) $30
Chain (Sram PC 951) $16
Front Derailleur (Sram X.9 2009) $35
Rear Derailleur (Sram X.7 2009) $45
Wheels (WTB Speed Disc, no-name hubs) $150
Tires (2 .0 Michelin A/T) $50
Grips (sette lock-on) $9

Seat: I had laying around
Pedals: I had laying around

Total: $972


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## martinsillo (Jul 31, 2009)

Nice!! it's a beauty!


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Whoohoo! Out prowling in the darkness already!


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

The wife let me put the fork on my tab...it was a rare craigslist score, now or never kind of thing. I think that puts my balance somewhere in the $25,000 range :lol: Stoked to have this thing rolling for the sticky-trail spring season.


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

Nice! She looks like a keeper! Glad you didn't have to hunt for any bolts in the dark.


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## Gary the No-Trash Cougar (Oct 14, 2008)

Nice!


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Thanks guys. You can all ride this short bus whenever you want.


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## hydrogeek (Feb 20, 2006)

Nice bike CB. I see solid axles but no leaf springs.  Oh, and you are insistent on using disc brakes aren't you!

Let us know how the bike performs on the trail.


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## martinsillo (Jul 31, 2009)

yeah...you should explain to us why did you go for 180mm on your 29r!! :lol:


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

I only use disc brakes because they are vastly superior to rim brakes in every imaginable situation and application.  And since all of the major manufacturers know this, a high end fork like the Reba doesn't have post mounts. . 

And I went with the 7" (180mm) size because I have 6" rotors on my 26"...Bigger wheels, bigger rotors. Makes sense to me. Let's face it, a 29 inch wheel is overkill... as long as we're solving problems that don't exist, we might as well do it with the brakes too.


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## martinsillo (Jul 31, 2009)

hey! I sense some seriousness on your answer!...I was kidding about the why question!...I bought 185mm rotors for my pugs...but, if po$$ible, will change front for a 203mm just for the looks!


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

160 rotors do look a little silly on a 29er...certainly a factor :lol:


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

CommuterBoy said:


> I only use disc brakes because they are vastly superior to rim brakes in every imaginable situation and application.


...every imaginable situation except where they aren`t vastly superior.
I must have a good imagination


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Got the maiden voyage in this weekend. I'm loving this thing... It's almost too much new-tech stuff to take in all at once...29er, tubeless, dual air motion-control fork... my head is spinning. Too much to evaluate all at once. I will tell you that the combo of the big hoops, tubeless tires, and really nice fork is amazing. I did a loop do all the time on my 26", and I was hitting lines with confidence that would make me hesitate on the Kona. 

...and I rode it to work today


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

hydrogeek said:


> Let us know how the bike performs on the trail.


Just a quick follow-up now that I've got a few rides in on it. Sram shifting and Reba fork performance have been reviewed to death... both are awesome and I'll leave it at that.

As far as the frame goes, it is a really stiff feeling frame. Fat downtube makes for a really rigid BB area and it accelerates immediately...none of the hesitant 29er 'wind up' that I've heard about... it moves when you tell it to without hesitation. This could have something to do with the (minimal?) weight savings of the tubeless set-up. Not sure, but it doesn't feel sluggish AT ALL.

I'm really happy with the way it climbs, especially when out of the saddle. Body weight is right where you want it and in sloppy situations, it's easy to get the weight over the rear enough to avoid slippage while also avoiding elevating the front wheel.

The geometry has a really upright feel to it, which I emphasized (without meaning to) with a short stem and riser bars...I'm considering a longer stem, but I really, really like the feel of this set-up for descending. Standing descents with this set up are seriously confidence-inspiring. I want a longer stem when I'm riding it to work, but trail performance is pretty sweet as-is. Long, seated climbs would also benefit from lower bars or a longer stem, but to me it's worth the trade-off for the big-boy-BMX feel that the bike has right now.

It doesn't feel "aluminum" harsh, either. The curvy seat stays do their job nicely, and with the slightly lower pressures of the tubeless set-up, it's nowhere near as harsh as some of the aluminum hardtails I've ridden.

I can't find anything to complain about yet...


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

Sounds fun! The shop chose my wider riser bars when I had them replace the fork - at first I was like, I dunno, they don't fit through the trees so good, but they are worth it on the steep stuff. My trails by work are not open til Memorial Day, same as the higher altitude hiking trails. :sad:


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