# Lets talk about steel Singlespeeds!



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

So I currently own 5 steel bikes and I don't know if I could ever ride anything else! My Karate Monkey is my steel, fully rigid SS 29er and I love it. In the near future I plan on swapping to a higher end steel frame. I want to stay strictly SS and fully rigid. I also want to go American made. I have been looking at the Gunnar Ruffian and its pretty close to what I want. The only thing I am concerned about is that I may want a 44mm headtube to run a tapered fork. What do you guys think? My Monkey has a White Brothers Rock Solid fork and it feels a bit flexy, I'm thinking that a tapered headtube with a tapered carbon fork would help the uneasy feeling I have with the fork.

Ruffian - Your Single-Speed Spaceship

Also, pic of the Karate Monkey. That crankset has to go, I'm getting sick of the flex there too! Haha


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Even considering saving for longer and getting a custom build. I love Geekhouse bikes and the Wormtown would kill it hardcore!

Mountain | geekhouse

I was really interested in the Ritchey P-29 but then I realized they are built in Taiwan and not the USA despite their patriotic paint scheme&#8230;..


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Also, the Cielo 29er frame. American made, 44mm headtube, sliders and pretty classy.

Mountain Bike Details - Cielo Cycles

The Cielo would be nice too because I work at a shop where I can pro-form Chris King. I can get the frame for a decent price.


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## robtre (Apr 9, 2008)

davesauvageau,
I too share your love for steel. Here is my question: I assume by "higher end" steel frame you are looking for something handmade in the USofA or are you looking for higher grade steel like Reynolds 853? All my frames have all been 4130 Chromoly what would be the noticable difference in a "higher end" steel frame?


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

Independent Fabrication Steel Deluxe SS. ifbikes.com


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

robtre said:


> davesauvageau,
> I too share your love for steel. Here is my question: I assume by "higher end" steel frame you are looking for something handmade in the USofA or are you looking for higher grade steel like Reynolds 853? All my frames have all been 4130 Chromoly what would be the noticable difference in a "higher end" steel frame?


Higher quality steel= lower weight and potentially better ride. A good steel frame is the original FS setup, stiff where it needs to be and flexy where you want it to be.


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## ecthelion (May 6, 2007)

If you're looking at the Gunnar bikes, then there are at least a couple custom steel builders with great reputations for around 20 - 25% more.

Quiring Cycles and Waltworks. Both are $1200 - $1300 for custom steel AFAIK. Quiring's got my stainless order in the queue at the moment, and he's been great to work with thus far.


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> Higher quality steel= lower weight and potentially better ride. A good steel frame is the original FS setup, stiff where it needs to be and flexy where you want it to be.


HYPNOTOAD! Exactly what I was thinking. I have 2 Surly's and they are nice bikes but I want something a bit lighter and I want to see if I can find a difference in ride quality.

Yes, I would like something 'Merican made and whatever steel the builder recommends.

I LOVE IF bikes. I have lusted after one for years but they are mega expensive. I suppose I could save up longer but I was looking at staying between 1000 and 1300.

Walt makes awesome bikes and I follow him in the Frame Building forum quite a bit. He's a really smart builder and he's always an option. Quiring, I haven't looked at in a long time. I will check out the site and see what's up!

Thanks for the responses guys, I love talking STEEL!


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## boostin (Apr 21, 2008)

I also ride a steel hardtail SS. A good friend of mine, Oscar @ Simple Bicycle Company made it for me. He is in Portland, OR. He also owns a frame jig business. His frames are badass and reasonably priced! I don't think he has a long wait time either, fwiw. 

Those Cielo's look cool too.


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

boostin said:


> I also ride a steel hardtail SS. A good friend of mine, Oscar @ Simple Bicycle Company made it for me. He is in Portland, OR. He also owns a frame jig business. His frames are badass and reasonably priced! I don't think he has a long wait time either, fwiw.
> 
> Those Cielo's look cool too.


Do you have a link to his site or a way I could contact him?

I really like those Quirings, ecthelion. They are pretty reasonably priced and he does some nice, unique work. He also does 44mm headtubes and BB30 for no extra charge apparently! I called him a bit ago and asked a few quick questions, seemed really nice and answered my questions with confidence. His Ti and Stainless frames are amazing but I can't afford one right now! The steel on the other hand is just right.


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## Zaskar24 (Jun 7, 2008)

davesauvageau said:


> Do you have a link to his site or a way I could contact him?
> 
> I really like those Quirings, ecthelion. They are pretty reasonably priced and he does some nice, unique work. He also does 44mm headtubes and BB30 for no extra charge apparently! I called him a bit ago and asked a few quick questions, seemed really nice and answered my questions with confidence. His Ti and Stainless frames are amazing but I can't afford one right now! The steel on the other hand is just right.


You will not regret having Scott build a steel frame for you. This is my second season on mine and I love it. I have one of the first tapered head tubes and went with Paragon sliders so I can run geared or SS, running it geared currently. Scott Nailed the build for where I ride in the Midwest, helps that he is familiar with some of the places I ride it. He is great to work with and just an all around great builder. Raced it 40 miles this weekend and even bombing down some quick hills it was stable and comfortable and climbs like a goat under my 225+ pounds as long as I did my part.


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

I love my KM...it's unnatural. Everytime I think of "upgrading" to finer frame, I realize that I would change so little about the frame. Nicer tubing, slightly shorter CS, fixed gear specific (no brake mounts or cable guides). Minor tweaks that would cost major ducats. The KM is a hard act to follow, for sure. Subscribed.


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

After years of riding steel, I've realized steel is *not fake*.


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

buddhak said:


> I love my KM...it's unnatural. Everytime I think of "upgrading" to finer frame, I realize that I would change so little about the frame. Nicer tubing, slightly shorter CS, fixed gear specific (no brake mounts or cable guides). Minor tweaks that would cost major ducats. The KM is a hard act to follow, for sure. Subscribed.


Yeah it is a good frame for now. As soon as I got it I hacked off the brake mounts and derailleur hardware. I couldn't be riding a stock KM frameset! I like Surly's but I would just like to try something custom and built for my body. Do you have a pic of your KM?


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Zaskar24 said:


> You will not regret having Scott build a steel frame for you. This is my second season on mine and I love it. I have one of the first tapered head tubes and went with Paragon sliders so I can run geared or SS, running it geared currently. Scott Nailed the build for where I ride in the Midwest, helps that he is familiar with some of the places I ride it. He is great to work with and just an all around great builder. Raced it 40 miles this weekend and even bombing down some quick hills it was stable and comfortable and climbs like a goat under my 225+ pounds as long as I did my part.


Good to know! The tapered headtube is a must for me. I would most likely go with a Whiskey fork to stiffen up the front end of the bike. Do you have a pic of your Quiring?

I can't decide if I want a standard BB or a BB30. What would you do?


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## er2013 (Aug 1, 2012)

Here's is my new steel beauty, just purchased and can't wait to ride it
IMG_9575.JPG


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## boostin (Apr 21, 2008)

davesauvageau said:


> Do you have a link to his site or a way I could contact him?


Untitled Document This is his website but its under construction, it has his # on it at least.

heres a non-current build pic of my Simple w/ 44mm HT and paragon dropouts


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

boostin said:


> Untitled Document This is his website but its under construction, it has his # on it at least.
> 
> heres a non-current build pic of my Simple w/ 44mm HT and paragon dropouts


Sweet looking bike! I will keep him in mind on my quest for my perfect frame!


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

er2013 said:


> Here's is my new steel beauty, just purchased and can't wait to ride it
> IMG_9575.JPG


Killer bike! How much pressure are you running in those tires? Rear looks a little low:skep:


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## JohnGray (Aug 30, 2008)

Several Thoughts:

First, if pricing is a big deal then you could also look at Curtlo.

Second, the bent seat tube of the KM gives it a bit shorter chain stays than most 29er's, including the Gunnar. Going with a conventional 2 triangle frame will almost certainly put you in longer stays.

Third, being ego centric here, I think about the builder's I would contact if a custom steel frame were in my future. I think of names like Vulture, Hunter, Pereira, Engin, De Salvo, Coconino... Most are pretty pricey. Beyond my pain threshold at the moment.

Two that come to mind that address my thought number two (and would be on my own personal short list) are Wolfhound and by:stickel. Also pricey. But talking to Walt or Scott Quiring might get you a bent seat tube and shorter stays. It is, after all, custom.

John


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

Dave,

I enjoyed your thread about the KM mods. I think about it often. I think JohnGray's list of custom frame builders matches my own very well, with Hunter and Coconino leading the pack.

Here is my KM


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## JohnGray (Aug 30, 2008)

buddhak said:


> I think JohnGray's list of custom frame builders matches my own very well, with Hunter and Coconino leading the pack.


Well, we are spending a lot of Dave's money for him! That being said I would put Soulcraft on my list, too. Beautiful bikes and sort of local for me.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

Ted Wojcik. Steel beauty from New England. Talk to the builder. Talk to other builders and they will praise Ted. New England builders (If, and Seven) wish they could have talent like him.

Gonna be my next 650b SS. Hot pink round tubes...ohhhhh, Baby!


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## er2013 (Aug 1, 2012)

davesauvageau said:


> Killer bike! How much pressure are you running in those tires? Rear looks a little low:skep:


they were deflated and need to re-stans for tubeless.


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## JUNGLEKID5 (May 1, 2006)

looks good guys keep it up.....


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## 4nbstd (Apr 12, 2012)

I love my steel too (2010 Kona Unit rigid ss 29er). 

If I had to pick one though, I would go for titanium frame over custom made steel frame. But my accountant says I can barely afford an Inbred frame.


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

By:Stickle's look really interesting to me.


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for the props on the KM build thread! Engin, Coconino, Pereira, Hunter, By:Stickle and Soulcraft all make beautiful bikes but are a bit out of my price range! Trying to stay within the 1350.00ish mark. Curtlo, Quiring, Waltworks, Clockwork and True Fabrications are more in my range. 

Some price breakdowns:

Waltworks
Base price: 1400
Paragon Sliders: +100
44mm headtube: Included
S-bend stays: Included
Total: 1500

True Fabrications
Base price: 1275
Paragon sliders: +200
44mm headtube: +50? 
S-bend stays: Included
Total: 1525

Quiring
Base frame: 1275
Paragon sliders: Appear to be included?
44mm headtube: Included?
Total: 1275? 

Clockwork:
Base price: 1200
Paragon sliders: 100
44mm headtube: 50?
Total: 1350

If Quiring's or Clockwork's prices are remotely similar to my simple estimate I will most likely go with one of them. I like Clockwork bikes, Joel is a really cool guy and I find a lot of his posts in the frame building forum. Scott seems like a really good builder too. I guess it comes down to whether I would like a tig-welded bike or a fillet brazed bike. Also, Joel does his own powdercoating and Scott paints his bikes because he does not like powdercoat. Both builders are in the upper midwest, as am I so that would be nice. What do you guys think about Quiring or Clockwork?


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## JohnGray (Aug 30, 2008)

*I would toss 'em out of bed for eating cookies, unless...*



davesauvageau said:


> If Quiring's or Clockwork's prices are remotely similar to my simple estimate I will most likely go with one of them. I like Clockwork bikes, Joel is a really cool guy and I find a lot of his posts in the frame building forum. Scott seems like a really good builder too. I guess it comes down to whether I would like a tig-welded bike or a fillet brazed bike. Also, Joel does his own powdercoating and Scott paints his bikes because he does not like powdercoat. Both builders are in the upper midwest, as am I so that would be nice. What do you guys think about Quiring or Clockwork?


That's kind of damning with faint praise and both builders are better than that. You are in a win-win situation, my friend. I guess if it were me I would decide if the KM's short stays were that important to me then talk to both - or all four on your short list - and go with whomever can get it to you like you what it, and when you need it.


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## The Thug (Nov 16, 2006)

My first steel singlespeed was the GT Peace which I sold earlier this year after converting my On-One Scandal into a ss.

I've now seen the light and my Surly KM frame is on its way from Germany!


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## BShow (Jun 15, 2006)

ecthelion said:


> If you're looking at the Gunnar bikes, then there are at least a couple custom steel builders with great reputations for around 20 - 25% more.
> 
> Quiring Cycles and Waltworks. Both are $1200 - $1300 for custom steel AFAIK. Quiring's got my stainless order in the queue at the moment, and he's been great to work with thus far.


OP, you mentioned Gunnar... Did you know that in addition to their stock geometry, they also do completely custom frames? The Ruffian is in the 1500 range with Paragon sliders if I recall correctly. The people who build the gunnar frames have a pretty good reputation too... Waterford.

Most/all of the custom guys mentioned here I think have pretty good reps and I don't think you'll go wrong with any of them. If you're serious about going custom though, I suggest having conversations with a few - if not all - of the custom guys on your list. Don't pick a builder based solely on a few pictures from the internet, or even recommendations of members here. Talk to them and see which one "fits" you best. Another great place to poke around is velocipede salon - a lot of custom guys on that forum.

At the end of the day, a few hundred bucks either way is not going to make or break you financially so don't let the price tag deter you from getting the frame that you want. You're getting a custom bike - it should be what you want. Keep in mind that most custom operations have a significant wait list, so you can use that time to save up the necessary cash.


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## boostin (Apr 21, 2008)

Is this frame going to be around 29" wheels? Another buddy of mine just took delivery on a steel 29er SS frame from Simple. He skipped the paint and had the frame nickel plated inside/out. Looks crazy! If your interested I'll get some pics of it and post them up.

edit-- I went ahead and robbed these pics off my friends FB page.


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## azcanc (Aug 13, 2009)

*Mmmmm - Steel*

WaltWorks - SS :thumbsup:
Zion 737 EBB - SS :thumbsup:


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## sroman (Aug 27, 2009)

*2009 trans am*

love this thing!


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

I do like the short stays so that will come into play a bit. I will talk to them and see what they can do. 

John, the list was just a quick one I put together to compare some prices. I am always open to new ideas and maybe I should just save up for longer and get something I really want. 

BShow, my absolute dream bike would be an Independent Fabrications Steel Deluxe. I might just save my pennies for longer and get my lifetime bike. I would probably be most happy in the long-run with an IF anyway and there would be absolutely no regrets. I did know that Gunnar does custom geometry and I'm friends with the guys in town that are the Waterford/Gunnar dealer so they might be able to hook me up a bit if it came to that. 

boostin, interesting finish! I want to know how well it will hold up in the long run!

Thanks for the opinions guys! I will keep searching and updating. Keep those steel SSer's coming!


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## edouble (Apr 16, 2004)

*I have been singing this song....*



1spd1way said:


> Ted Wojcik. Steel beauty from New England. Talk to the builder. Talk to other builders and they will praise Ted. New England builders (If, and Seven) wish they could have talent like him.
> 
> Gonna be my next 650b SS. Hot pink round tubes...ohhhhh, Baby!


For 6 years on the 29er forum but no one really listens. It's kind of like trying to tell kids that think Justin Bieber is a great singer about Frank Sinatra or Nat King Cole. The level of talent and artistry of those two singers is just lost on them. Same on the 29er forum with Ted. They haven't a clue. Oh, that's Ted in my avatar 6 years ago with my frame. Still as sweet as day 1.


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## Saddle Up (Jan 30, 2008)

The owner of Singular bicycles view on 44mm headtubes. I think this guy knows a thing or two about the ride quality and performance of steel framed bicycles.

http://www.facebook.com/SingularCycles#!/SingularCycles/posts/10151305168239447


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## Acero853 (Feb 19, 2010)

davesauvageau said:


> HYPNOTOAD! Exactly what I was thinking. I have 2 Surly's and they are nice bikes but I want something a bit lighter and I want to see if I can find a difference in ride quality.
> 
> Yes, I would like something 'Merican made and whatever steel the builder recommends.
> 
> ...


I ride a Waltworks and love my frame. It rides just like I asked for it to ride and Walt was great to work with--answers questions thoroughly and helps you understand the particulars of the build. I will buy another WW when I have the money for a road frame. I have a fork on order which is curretnly at the poweder coater.

As to the quoted text above: There is no doubt that different steel has different ride qualities, but I wouldn't get too caught up on the type of tubes used. In fact, when you start calling builders, I would talk riding style, body weight and terrain and see what they suggest before throwing out your tubing preference. What they say (and, more importantly, why) might surprise you. Walt sent me an excel sheet with every tube used to create my frame and only one is OXPLAT. The rest are True Temper made, double-butted, but for my weight and the bike's intended use it did not make sense to him to use tubes drawn more thinly or butted any differently because they would have made the bike noodly. 
Just my experience. YMMV.

Barry


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## Sage of the Sage (Nov 10, 2011)

What about Igleheart frames?


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## voodoochild (Feb 20, 2004)

I'm really liking my OS blackbuck -- but yes, I know, it's probably manufactured in China... *sigh*

Have you considered Inglis/Retrotec?

or

Hunter?

They're both left coast but very nice bikes and very reputable, too.


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## Obi (Oct 16, 2005)

buddhak said:


> Dave,
> 
> I enjoyed your thread about the KM mods. I think about it often. I think JohnGray's list of custom frame builders matches my own very well, with Hunter and Coconino leading the pack.


Thanks for this post. I saw the topic and was literally thinking "Why has nobody brought up Steve or Rick yet?". :thumbsup:

This is such an awesome idea!









Why? Because it takes us all back to grade school maybe?


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## Obi (Oct 16, 2005)

[EDIT]  On second thought, we're all wrong. What you really want to own is one bike from each of the builders mentioned. That way it's only a matter of deciding quickly enough on which one in the quiver to pull out and ride before it's too late to go ride. :thumbsup:


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

I get the Singular argument, I'm just worried about compatibility in the long run. I want a bike that I can upgrade and customize as the years go on. Maybe I will switch to a suspension fork? Who knows what availability is going to be in the future? A lot of suspension forks only come in tapered steerers and I don't want to be limited on what I can use. From my standpoint I would like a 44mm headtube on my personal bike for versatility. On the Swift, it obviously won't work. 

Iglehearts are beautiful but for $2000, I would rather have an Independent Fabrications Steel Deluxe

Inglis/Retrotec make awesome bikes too. Again, for the price of the stock geometry frame I would probably buy a Walt, Quiring or Clockwork. I'm a bit short at 5' 7" tall with a 30" inseam on a good day. The curved toptubes of the Retrotec's go the wrong way! Haha 

A Hunter with SS dropouts and a 44mm headtube is also getting up into that Indyfab price range. I am going to call IF tomorrow and ask a few questions about some options on the Steel Deluxe.

Thanks for all of the suggestions, there are so many amazing framebuilders in the US!

On a side note, I ordered some new bits for the Karate Monkey. It has needed a crankset for a long time so I put in an order:
Profile Racing NoBoss 48 spline 175mm crank arms in black
Titanium spindle and Cromo bolts
Profile Racing external cup BB in polished aluminum
Profile Racing spline drive chainwheel, 32t in polished aluminum

Should match my Profile Racing hubs and will be much stiffer than the junk Bontrager Race crankset that is on it!


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## boostin (Apr 21, 2008)

Are you rocking the Profile elite hubs? If so... damn, I want


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

boostin said:


> Are you rocking the Profile elite hubs? If so... damn, I want


I got some of the last Classic hubs. I'm pretty sure they are getting rid of most of them. I got them from work through Profile and Termite hooked it up. I wanted polished hubs and he happened to have a green hubshell that turned out unsatisfactory so they stripped it and re-polished it. Got it for cheaper and it looks beautiful! Also, like the classic engagement of the rear hub. I have the Mini SS on my BMX bike and it is indestructible! Love Profile gear and such a bonus that its built in the USA!

Pics related, they were taken before the new fork.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

The records stuck...if you look to New England...tedwojcikcustombicycles.com . This guy was building beauuuutful bikes long before IF became IF., before Seven became Seven, before...oh, you get the idea.


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

1spd1way said:


> The records stuck...if you look to New England...tedwojcikcustombicycles.com . This guy was building beauuuutful bikes long before IF became IF., before Seven became Seven, before...oh, you get the idea.


Ted definitely is The Master framebuilder. He's been in the business for a long time. Do you think he would do a 44mm headtube? Looking at his "Monkey Butt" 29er frame I see that it has removable cable stops and Paragon sliders. I wonder how those removable stops compare to removable stops on a BMX bike? I'm extremely familiar with those stops and I'm surprised more companies don't use them on frames.

For those of you not familiar with these they are handy little things if you can drill 2 holes and tap one or both of them depending on the style.


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## JUNGLEKID5 (May 1, 2006)

Raleigh Bicycles XXIX

my steel ride


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

These new dropouts, among other details, are the reason I am stuck on Steve Garro and Coconino. His bikes are just on my wavelength - what can I say?


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

Whoopsadaisies


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

That blue and white one is bada$$! The machined dropouts look kinda like the Surly ones to me.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

Ted W is truely a custom builder. I called with a quick question about 650b. He said about anything is possible these days.


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

1spd1way said:


> Ted W is truely a custom builder. I called with a quick question about 650b. He said about anything is possible these days.


Yeah I want to call him up and see how his removable cable stops work. Those would be pretty ideal on my bike because I want to run it SS as long as I can and if I ever get bored with it I can mix it up a bit with a geared drivetrain. Also, I'm wondering if 650b wouldn't be a better fit for me. I'm 5' 7" tall with a 30" inseam. I fit okay on my KM but I might fit better with a smaller wheel and frame.


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## JohnGray (Aug 30, 2008)

davesauvageau said:


> (M)y absolute dream bike would be an Independent Fabrications Steel Deluxe. I might just save my pennies for longer and get my lifetime bike. I would probably be most happy in the long-run with an IF anyway and there would be absolutely no regrets.


Then you should go with IF. Really, you'll save money in the long run. Buy something else now and next week you'll see and IF on the trails and buyers remorse will set in.

But, for argument's sake I'll throw out another one: Kish. He really make some clean frames. I'm not sure how, as he uses the same 8 tubes as all the rest do, but his frames just are clean to my eye. He's better known for Ti but also works in steel.


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## Manicmtbr (Jan 26, 2004)

Since no one has posted a new builder in the last 10 posts, I would like to suggest Weaver Cycle Works. Weaver Cycle Works

I also have a Waltworks and he is great to work with and builds a good bike. I spoke to Scott about a frame, but ended up going more local to me. Pretty sure he would have built me a great bike. I have also owned a few Gunnars (1 Ruffian, 2 Rockhounds, all 29er). Good riding bikes, but they all had funny quirks (limited tire clearance, no clearance for suspension forks). I did have earlier Gunnars and I think they fixed these things. Even with those quirks, the bikes rode very well.

Good luck with your choices.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

I ride a 14" 1x1 converted to 650b. Love the wheel size. Tried this frame as a 96er, 29er and now as a 650b. This is the frame I'll have Ted build from, only 650b specific. When I told him what I ride, I expected a downplay on the "good for a cheap frame." He complimented the ride and build. He was quite excited about the wheel size.
If and Seven frames are highly desirable, but I question the cost vs. value. Are they worth it? Probably. Can I afford it? Will it ride better because I spent more money? Nope. So,I really couldn't have a Singlespeed build by any other builder the TW.


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Little update on the Karate Monkey. I got some new parts today. Profile 170mm NoBoss cranks with the Cromo GDH spindle and 6mm hardware, Profile 73mm Outboard BB and Profile Spline Drive Chainwheel. Pretty sweet! I don't really care about weight that much and I wanted super sturdy, reliable, serviceable cranks that are USA made. Can't get better than Profile, especially with the polished bb and chainwheel to match my Profile hubs!


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

Profile parts...


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

buddhak said:


> Profile parts...


Profile Parts:


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

davesauvageau said:


> I get the Singular argument, I'm just worried about compatibility in the long run. I want a bike that I can upgrade and customize as the years go on. Maybe I will switch to a suspension fork? Who knows what availability is going to be in the future? A lot of suspension forks only come in tapered steerers and I don't want to be limited on what I can use. From my standpoint I would like a 44mm headtube on my personal bike for versatility. On the Swift, it obviously won't work.


Cool thread, but it seem to be mostly talking about builders, and not covering enough about your main questions. I would like to add my $.02, if its even worth that much these days.

I love riding rigid, and lately I prefer a fat front, but I don't have one for my SS. I use an On-One carbon fork that must be 4 years old now? It does some breaking flutter etc., but I have never once felt worried or nervous about it while riding it.

I doubt that you _*won't*_ be able to find non-tapered suspension forks if you decide to use one down the road. I think even if tapered is the way things go, there will always be nice used forks or even new ones available. (But don't ruin your rigid ride!!!)

I personally think that a longer HT is what makes a fork ride better. I also have a Jones (1x9), with the truss fork and long HT. I think having a longer HT make the fork|frame interface stronger, while still allowing the fork legs to flex (but more predictably?) Not sure if this is true (Jeff Jones seems to think so), and it seems that way to me. If I ever get a custom anything in the future, it will have the longest HT it can. Another example of what this might look like is the Singular Griffen bike. It has fork legs that aren't suspension corrected and a nice long HT. I've head that bike rides very well. I think it looks great too, even though I would skip the drop bars (which I have used and liked, but don't prefer).

I have plenty of comments I could make about all the builders in this thread (I like them all), but I won't talk about any because I have no personal experience to share about anyone specific. I would say I would go with a busy one-guy operation over the other (great) but large type shops.

Hope something I've said helps the OP (you), or anyone else coming here (accept the damn spammers). Hopefully we can continue this thread talking more specifically about the steering/rigid/HT aspects since you enjoy SS and rigid riding.


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

WOW!! Those Coconino frames are gorgeous!! The lines and the paint!! I've been researching a build for a steel SS 29er and the KM was my top choice.....but now.....COCONINO!!


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Coconino ftw!

OMG, I almost passed out when I saw the Profiles on the scale! But they are bomb proof and should last forever. I thought about going with those but am too much of a WW. My crank arms (m960 modded) weigh in at 466g, add another 100g for the bb and maybe, maybe 100g for the HBC ring and 4 bolts. Couldn't be happier! None the less, I still love the Profile parts and their hubs are totally kick @$$. I was going to go for these but ended up getting a better deal on my Hopes in the end.

Seriously though, make sure you talk to the builders about your riding style, terrain, overall goals for the build...That will make all the difference in the world. I went thru this years ago when I ended up ordering a Paramount (made by Waterford) road frame. I had ridden a Hollands that was made for a friend of mine and loved it. Unfortunately Hollands had retired but I was able to get all the specs from my friend and Waterford worked with me to build something based off that. So far it has been the best riding road bike I ever owned and I wish it never got stolen! (someone broke into our barracks and took all sorts of crap that day-about 5 rooms got hit that day).

Supposedly, from everything that I have been reading, the 650b scene is supposed to blow up this year. I personally think it is a great compromise. Especially for the shorter riders. I mean you have all the guys that made the jump to 29's who miss the flickability of the 26, the shorter riders that just don't fit that well on the 29, a wheel that is bigger than the 26 but can still roll over more stuff...Just makes sense to me really. 

I ride a WB Rock Solid and have been now for about 3 years or so I guess. Yes, it is a little flexy but I am quite happy with it. I would love to go to a Niner fork but would only do it with a tapered steerer. But my Jabber is non-tapered so there's my issue there. For me Coconino is at the top of my custom list, set up with a tapered steerer and a Niner fork (sorry-the WW still lives).

Not to throw the road bike thing out again but my current Bianchi Pinella steel bike made with Boron tripple butted, heat treated tubes has an amazing ride to it. It is laterally stiff and accellerates better than some of the mass produced carbon bikes I have ridden yet still has good vertical compliance that allows you to ride that thing all day! In my mind, you really can't go wrong with a nice steel frame.


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## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

Avanti KISS 26" SS (frame only) size L ECB frame 4130 cromo DB 
vastly upgraded over the original bike (14.2kg) down to 10.1kg.
Enve bar/stem/post 
charge knife saddle
CK headset & creamic BB & 18T Cog
M985 180 cranks M975 brakes Hope floating rotors (soon to upgrade to Hope Race x2 evo)
ZTR hubs DT Rev DB spokes Mavic 717 rims DT alloy nipples

If i was to go custom it would be a Baum from Melbourne Australia. If the wife would let me :nono:


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## elroyj (Apr 3, 2011)

Posted this in a new thread and then saw this topic, but does anyone know anything about wright cycle co. In Flagstaff? Came across their site yesterday and can't find any review it other info about them.


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## edouble (Apr 16, 2004)

*Wow....*

another forum member that has love for Ted. We are few and far between. It seems like people on this forum go out of their way to drool over other builders with far less ability while pretending that Ted doesn't exist. How many builders have had Reynolds ask them to teach their welders his techniques?. Ted has, but refused. Reynolds respects him WAAAY MORE than people on this forum and I think they have a much better idea of who is truly exceptional and who is not than mtbr forum members.


1spd1way said:


> The records stuck...if you look to New England...tedwojcikcustombicycles.com . This guy was building beauuuutful bikes long before IF became IF., before Seven became Seven, before...oh, you get the idea.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

yep. Still have the hot pink x-small full sus frame. Right now it's hanging in the garage. I can't/won't get rid of it. Battle rear end, tiny head tube,invisible welds quality, quality, quality.
Gotta put some $$'s away for the next hot pink, 650b Wojcik!


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## borbntm (May 4, 2011)

I am really surprised at how smooth and forgiving my steel Civilian Luditte rides. I own two other hard tails, both aluminum..... A Stumpy EVO 29er and an old Trek 7000. 

HUGE difference in ride quality. Steel make a rigid bike tolerable for longer rides without as much fatigue.

Steel is real! I now realize the difference and it is much more than I expected. I like it!


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

borbntm said:


> I am really surprised at how smooth and forgiving my steel Civilian Luditte rides. I own two other hard tails, both aluminum..... A Stumpy EVO 29er and an old Trek 7000.
> 
> HUGE difference in ride quality. Steel make a rigid bike tolerable for longer rides without as much fatigue.
> 
> Steel is real! I now realize the difference and it is much more than I expected. I like it!


I've looked at Civilian Luddite and I love the features, colors and style. Competitive Cyclist has the complete bike for less than $1000 which is pretty solid. Where are the frames made? Did yours say? I can't find a definitive answer on the site.


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## borbntm (May 4, 2011)

davesauvageau said:


> I've looked at Civilian Luddite and I love the features, colors and style. Competitive Cyclist has the complete bike for less than $1000 which is pretty solid. Where are the frames made? Did yours say? I can't find a definitive answer on the site.


It really is a great bike for the money....I read somewhere (it may have been in the 29er forum thread) that the frame is assembled in China but finished in Taiwan. Someone out there please correct me if I am wrong!


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## slohr (May 22, 2008)

Absolutely killer bikes on here! It is so cool that all these American Craftsman can make a living creating these awesome bikes in this day and age. I got my Solo One SE as something to ride to give me a challenge while my son is growing up and learning to ride. Now I don't want to ride anything else. I think a Ti frame would be awesome, and maybe a carbon one too, but you have to love what these guys are doing with the steel. I can't see (but not having tried it) where buying a Ti or carbon frame would be any better than having a steel bike from one of these craftsman. Don't know much about Ti particulars, and I have felt carbon dampen vibration on slower speed stutter terrain, but when I am fortunate enough to ride fast trails like Raystown, I can feel my steel bike turn into a giant "leaf spring" that just hugs the turns. Rode a high dollar carbon frame there at Dirtfest--with a suspension fork, and even after all it's amazing characteristics, that bike did not seem to "lock in" to the trail like my steel bike.


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## BigRed390 (May 31, 2012)

davesauvageau said:


> I've looked at Civilian Luddite and I love the features, colors and style. Competitive Cyclist has the complete bike for less than $1000 which is pretty solid. Where are the frames made? Did yours say? I can't find a definitive answer on the site.


The sticker on mine says Taiwan. I've had it for about 3 weeks now and couldn't be happier. Caveat: First steel bike, first singlespeed, first rigid, first 29er. That being said, my next bike will probably be a steel rigid singlespeed 29er as well. Can't say enough good things about this bike. Love it!


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## t-dawg (Jul 26, 2006)

As we are on custom bikes, Does anyone know a frame bulder that does lugged MTB frames? They are few and far between and I understand that the lugs take away alot of geometry otions but in this day and age there should be some guys making their own lugs and putting together some sick bikes.


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## MMcG (Jul 7, 2003)

For the guy interested in Ted's removable cable stops. I had one of his Demo Monkey Butt 29er frames for a while as I was helping Ted try to gain more exposure in New England at that time. It is a very simple concept he uses for those, but it is very effective. basically the cable stops are held on with tiny screws - so if you want to remove em - just take em off, and re-insert the screw so it sits flush with the frame and voila you've got a really clean SS look to your frame!


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

t-dawg said:


> As we are on custom bikes, Does anyone know a frame bulder that does lugged MTB frames? They are few and far between and I understand that the lugs take away alot of geometry otions but in this day and age there should be some guys making their own lugs and putting together some sick bikes.


Some very useful links:

Framebuilder List For S and S Machine Bicycle Torque Couplings (BTCs)

List of Mass Framebuilders/Manufacturers? [Archive] - Bike Forums

Custom Bicycle Builder Portal: Listing over 40 builders

Damon Rinard's Frame Building Links


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

BigRed390 said:


> The sticker on mine says Taiwan. I've had it for about 3 weeks now and couldn't be happier. Caveat: First steel bike, first singlespeed, first rigid, first 29er. That being said, my next bike will probably be a steel rigid singlespeed 29er as well. Can't say enough good things about this bike. Love it!


Mine also say "Taiwan". Wish I knew the frame's weight. I slapped a 120mm fork on mine and it rides handles well, not that I like the 3 extra pounds of weight.


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## febikes (Jan 28, 2011)

SS Hack said:


> Mine also say "Taiwan". Wish I knew the frame's weight. I slapped a 120mm fork on mine and it rides handles well, *not that I like the 3 extra pounds of weight*.


People often exaggerate the weight of steel frames.

I like durability and tend to ride parts that are robust but there is no reason they should be heavier then needed.

A good strong steel bike can be built with about 4.25 pounds of material. You might go up to 4.5 pounds for a beefy bike. In terms of general single speed bike a 5 pound steel frame should be super strong with a high quality butted tubeset.

Some of the cheap china steel bikes that are in the 5.5 to 6.5 pound weight range are mostly made from Hi-Ten steel using scrap yard junk metal. Six pounds of junk metal is not going to be as strong as 4.25 pounds of quality. Hi-Ten steel and Junk-molly should be used for gas pipe and auto bumpers and should not be compared to quality steel frames.

If you crunch the numbers you will find that the weight difference between steel frames and high quality aluminum frames that are built for similar strength will be around 1.5 pounds it is not hard to find cases where steel frames are lighter then aluminum frames. Super light aluminum frames tend to have short lives so most aluminum frames are 3.75 pounds or slightly more.

Titanium frames are similar to the weight of aluminum frames and for custom are a better choice then aluminum but they are usually expensive.

Super light carbon frames can be around 2.25 pounds so the only way a steel frame is three pounds heavier is if you compare a very heavy steel frame to one of the world's lightest carbon frames.

High quality steel tubing is still a very nice material to make mountain bikes from and performs well.


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## Sologear (Oct 27, 2012)

buddhak said:


> Dave,
> 
> I enjoyed your thread about the KM mods. I think about it often. I think JohnGray's list of custom frame builders matches my own very well, with Hunter and Coconino leading the pack.
> 
> Here is my KM


Great bike but what handlebar do you have on?
Is it ritchey?


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

Ragley Carnegie's Bar, sir.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

24.09 lb / 10.93 kg. Yes the rear tire, Surly cog, saddle and rims are a bit beefy- I don't care. Carbon seatpost and bars with XTR 952 180mm cranks, Xpedo Ti/Ti pedals


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2012)

*Let's look at steel singlespeeds!*








[/URL] Little Pine Mountain, CA by miwuksurfer, on Flickr[/IMG]


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

*Steel singlespeed 29er frame list*

Just wondering if anyone has come across a steel singlespeed 29er frame list on these (or any other) forums?

Really keen to see what choice there is out there... I haven't come across that many...


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

edubfromktown said:


> 24.09 lb / 10.93 kg. Yes the rear tire, Surly cog, saddle and rims are a bit beefy- I don't care. Carbon seatpost and bars with XTR 952 180mm cranks, Xpedo Ti/Ti pedals


That's a sweet, simple setup! How do you like that EBB?


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## cocksmith (Dec 12, 2010)

Why don't you hit up Standard? they will make you anything you want!! I am going to have a SS 29er built this Winter.

Standard Byke Company


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## cocksmith (Dec 12, 2010)

Big Bikes and more to come! | Facebook


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## surreal (Jan 25, 2008)

t-dawg said:


> ... Does anyone know a frame bulder that does lugged MTB frames? They are few and far between and I understand that the lugs take away alot of geometry otions but in this day and age there should be some guys making their own lugs and putting together some sick bikes.


Check out Bilenky in philadelphia; they cut their own lugs and list lugged mountain bikes among their offerings. (I've never seen one in person, though...)

Frame Set Price List

hth


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

OK thanks for these two manufacturers.

I was hoping for a list of many SS 29er frames though - anyone know where to find this?


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## boostin (Apr 21, 2008)

Simple just built a SS 29er out of steel for a friend of mine - the frame is posted earlier in this thread. I'll try to sneak a built pic in the next few days


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## subliminalshiver (Jan 8, 2007)

Speaking of Steel SS's.... 
This is Audrey. She came from the old IF factory in Summerville. My only experience with custom builds is with this company and this bike. They totally nailed it. I love this bike. the only thing I would have changed would have been the addition of couplers for easier travel.


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## Zaskar24 (Jun 7, 2008)

Well after watching this thread I have started to talk with Walt about building my next custom steel frame. 

I do have a question. Does anyone have any experience with the Paragan swinging dropouts? I have their sliders on my steel Quiring and have had no issues with running them with a geared setup for the last two years.

Thank you for starting this thread Dave. And thank you to everyone who has posted bikes and builders!


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## ecthelion (May 6, 2007)

Just wanted to lobby again for folks to consider Quiring for custom steel; see below for an update on his progress on my KVA stainless frame that will be built as a singlespeed (at least initially).

It should be en route to me early next week!


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## Zaskar24 (Jun 7, 2008)

ecthelion said:


> Just wanted to lobby again for folks to consider Quiring for custom steel; see below for an update on his progress on my KVA stainless frame that will be built as a singlespeed (at least initially).
> 
> It should be en route to me early next week!


There is no doubt Scott does awesome work. I really love the steel frame he built for me. What kind of drop outs did you go with? Look like swingers from what I can see. Very nice looking frame. I hope to be able to afford a geared Ti frame from Scott sooner then later.


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## ecthelion (May 6, 2007)

Zaskar24 said:


> What kind of drop outs did you go with? Look like swingers from what I can see. Very nice looking frame


 Thanks!

Went with Paragon rockers with post mount inserts and upgraded bolts.

Stainless steel instead of Ti frame because the stainless will ride like high quality steel (non-stainless) which is something I already know I love, it's readily available as butted tubing, it's American made tubing (KVA MS2), it's just a bit cheaper than Ti (at least of Quiring's offerings), the frame weight is very competitive with Ti, and the corrosion resistance is good enough for an unpainted finish. Plus, it' unique.

Scott was awesome throughout the process, and hit his predicted build timeline. Obviously I can't report back on the frame yet, but thus far I'd order from Scott again and highly recommend him.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GHamilton (Nov 2, 2012)

*Kona or Surly*

Unit or Karate monkey. Looking to pull the trigger on either one. I'm new to the SS field and need some input from the community. Any help will be appreciated.

Gordon


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

GHamilton said:


> Unit or Karate monkey. Looking to pull the trigger on either one. I'm new to the SS field and need some input from the community. Any help will be appreciated.
> 
> Gordon


Yes, get one. Both are good.


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## GHamilton (Nov 2, 2012)

SS Hack said:


> Yes, get one. Both are good.


Took a Unit for a ride today. Felt good all around. Light, accelerated well, turned nicely, but my feet were hitting the rear axle on the right side almost knocking my foot off the pedal. That's a deal breaker. Searching for a Surly to try out.
Gordon 
(Size 13, and it's not true)


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## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

In no particular order:

44 Bike Company
Ted Wojcik
Frank the Welder (Frank Wadelton)
Ellis Cycles


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## Bas Vermond (Nov 14, 2012)

*Kona unit MX*

I just bought a Kona Unit, build up with Salsa Woodchipper bar and 1.35" Schwalbe Sammy Slicks


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## Bas Vermond (Nov 14, 2012)

*Kona Unit MX*

I like to post some pics, but I'm not allowed yet to do so.
I have to make 10 posts at least to do so.

Greats Bas.


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## Bas Vermond (Nov 14, 2012)

Stainless steel is a very good material comparible with titanium.
It's very tough, flexible, corrosion resistant (exept for salt water), only its as heavy as a regular chrome-moly frame.
But a good chro-mo frame is as good as semi stainless.


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## ecthelion (May 6, 2007)

Bas Vermond said:


> ...only its as heavy as a regular chrome-moly frame.


Uhm, not typically, both because you don't have to paint the stainless frame and because the yield strength of air hardening stainless is enough higher than a standard chromoly that you can build the frame using thinner walled tubing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

GHamilton said:


> Took a Unit for a ride today. Felt good all around. Light, accelerated well, turned nicely, but my feet were hitting the rear axle on the right side almost knocking my foot off the pedal. That's a deal breaker. Searching for a Surly to try out.
> Gordon
> (Size 13, and it's not true)


That has happened to me on both my Canfield Yelli and my Surly KM. Size 13 and MYOB. It is a function of short chain stays and big tire clearance, as far as I can tell. It has happened to me about 5-10 times in the 4 (5?) years I have been on the KM. And only once was it bad enough to tear my shoe (on a fixed gear drivetrain, mind you). I wouldn't toss the baby out with the bath water just yet. Give the KM a try, but understand that heel strike can occur with any short chainstay frame. There are ways to widen your Q factor, thus minimizing heel strike, without totally ruining your chain line.


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## loginhater (Jul 15, 2009)

Great thread. I also would like to find a midwest builder. Quiring is at the top of my list for my next frame, but now I am going to look at Clockwork too. I am constantly between frame sizes with my long legs and disproportionately shorter torso, so I am hoping the next one will be the last. At least for a while.

What kind of wait time does Quiring have?

Just sold my sir9. Really liked the the ride quality and the EBB, but it never really fit me quite right.


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## cherepaha (Nov 17, 2012)

its steel and ss but comparing to your beauties its kind of shame to upload this picture, but i have great fun on this bike!


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## Zaskar24 (Jun 7, 2008)

loginhater said:


> Great thread. I also would like to find a midwest builder. Quiring is at the top of my list for my next frame, but now I am going to look at Clockwork too. I am constantly between frame sizes with my long legs and disproportionately shorter torso, so I am hoping the next one will be the last. At least for a while.
> 
> What kind of wait time does Quiring have?
> 
> Just sold my sir9. Really liked the the ride quality and the EBB, but it never really fit me quite right.


When I ordered my frame from Scott 2 years ago it took him about 3 months to get the frame built and shipped to me. It is nice to have someone in the region build for you since he has either ridden or raced on a lot of the trails we ride. Plus Scott is a class act and very easy to work with.


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## ecthelion (May 6, 2007)

loginhater said:


> What kind of wait time does Quiring have?


He quoted me 8 -12 weeks after order, and did indeed finish and ship at the upper end of the range. Note that we spent 2 or 3 weeks going back and forth about the details (ie, fit measurements, frame drawing, riding style, etc) before he'd take the deposit.

So, total first contact to frame in hand for me was ~15 weeks. :thumbsup:


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## pistolpete (Jun 12, 2007)

Steve at Coconino is a nice guy as are most of the other builders mentioned.I've had several custom frames and they all have had their charms,some more than others of course.After spending all that money I still ride my Surly most of all...A great bike that I'm not going to hurt.Sometimes I wish I only owned my Monk-E or even my old 1X1.Simple goodness...


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

pistolpete said:


> After spending all that money I still ride my Surly most of all...A great bike that I'm not going to hurt.Sometimes I wish I only owned my Monk-E or even my old 1X1.Simple goodness...


Ya mon. :thumbsup:

Back in 2003, Surly totally nailed it. My bougie bikes gather dust while the KM feasts on dirt.

I still want a Coconino, though.


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## GHamilton (Nov 2, 2012)

buddhak said:


> That has happened to me on both my Canfield Yelli and my Surly KM. Size 13 and MYOB. It is a function of short chain stays and big tire clearance, as far as I can tell. It has happened to me about 5-10 times in the 4 (5?) years I have been on the KM. And only once was it bad enough to tear my shoe (on a fixed gear drivetrain, mind you). I wouldn't toss the baby out with the bath water just yet. Give the KM a try, but understand that heel strike can occur with any short chainstay frame. There are ways to widen your Q factor, thus minimizing heel strike, without totally ruining your chain line.


Bought the Unit today. My first ever Black Friday shopping experience. Hope to ride it in the next few days.

Gordon


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

GHamilton said:


> Bought the Unit today. My first ever Black Friday shopping experience. Hope to ride it in the next few days.
> 
> Gordon


Did you get the new one in raw? Good deal?


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## GHamilton (Nov 2, 2012)

SS Hack said:


> Did you get the new one in raw? Good deal?


Got a 2012 in orange. 20 inch. They (Wheels in Motion in Ann Arbor, MI) had a 16 inch 2013 on the floor. I got 20% off list and helped the local economy 

Gordon


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## GHamilton (Nov 2, 2012)

Just got back from a short test ride at the Tree Farm. The single track was overly muddy so I rode some of the dual usage trail. I'm amazed at how smooth the full rigid feels over the roots and bumps. The only time I missed the squish front was during some moderate speed downhill turns. The front wheel would skip a little after hitting a root and create some pucker moments. I'm sure I'll get used to it. Definitely need to go with a larger rear cog in order for me to get around the usual route in one gear. Checking the ratios I was experimenting with on the Mamba, It looks like a 21 or 22 tooth. May need to put a longer chain on it in order to accommodate the larger gear. 

Gordon


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

GHamilton said:


> Just got back from a short test ride at the Tree Farm. The single track was overly muddy so I rode some of the dual usage trail. I'm amazed at how smooth the full rigid feels over the roots and bumps. The only time I missed the squish front was during some moderate speed downhill turns. The front wheel would skip a little after hitting a root and create some pucker moments. I'm sure I'll get used to it. Definitely need to go with a larger rear cog in order for me to get around the usual route in one gear. Checking the ratios I was experimenting with on the Mamba, It looks like a 21 or 22 tooth. May need to put a longer chain on it in order to accommodate the larger gear.
> 
> Gordon


I use 33x17 on mine and it works well for our relatively flat trails. What did yours come with stock?


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## Junktech (May 5, 2010)

Just picked up my first steel single speed (noticed I said first)!! Its a 2008 Redline Monocog Flight 29er. It has Profile Racing hubs and cranks (27-13), White Brothers Magic 29 fork, XTR brakes, Thomson seat post and stem, Chris King headset, Answer handle bar and Racing Ralph tires. I picked it up from a friend who manages a bike shop, the only change I made so far is the grips. I'm not sure if I'm going to keep the gearing, I'll ride it for a while and decide from there.


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## GHamilton (Nov 2, 2012)

davesauvageau said:


> I use 33x17 on mine and it works well for our relatively flat trails. What did yours come with stock?


Came stock with 32/18. More later.

Gordon


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Junktech said:


> Just picked up my first steel single speed (noticed I said first)!! Its a 2008 Redline Monocog Flight 29er. It has Profile Racing hubs and cranks (27-13), White Brothers Magic 29 fork, XTR brakes, Thomson seat post and stem, Chris King headset, Answer handle bar and Racing Ralph tires. I picked it up from a friend who manages a bike shop, the only change I made so far is the grips. I'm not sure if I'm going to keep the gearing, I'll ride it for a while and decide from there.


Thats a solid setup! Nice hubs and cranks


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## Scimitar (Jul 14, 2006)

*Bikes Made In The USA*

Since this thread started out as a request for a USA made bike you should take a look at the listing I've made of mountain bike builders in America (over 125): Ultimate Listing: Mountain Bikes Made In America

Each builder has their state location and materials they build in listed. Almost all of them will build a single speed frame.


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Scimitar said:


> Since this thread started out as a request for a USA made bike you should take a look at the listing I've made of mountain bike builders in America (over 125): Ultimate Listing: Mountain Bikes Made In America
> 
> Each builder has their state location and materials they build in listed. Almost all of them will build a single speed frame.


What a comprehensive list! Answers a lot of questions. I'm kinda looking forward to the new Vassago Verhauen. Made in USA, Sliding dropouts, 44mm headtube, steel and the ability to run gears if I wanted to down the road. That's a pretty sweet machine at about $1,000! I will wait until I see a few built up and see what happens. Maybe a Vassago will be in my future....


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## idaz (Nov 17, 2007)

I picked up an unbuilt 1st Generation VerHauen a couple of months ago and have been thoroughly pleased. Similar to the Jabber in stability and handling but a bit smoother, lighter, with slightly shorter CSs. The sliders are nice but I'm not sure if they're worth the weight over the track ends.
Sounds like the next generation VerHauen is smartly designed with some good folks standing behind it.
Cheers,
M


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

idaz said:


> I picked up an unbuilt 1st Generation VerHauen a couple of months ago and have been thoroughly pleased. Similar to the Jabber in stability and handling but a bit smoother, lighter, with slightly shorter CSs. The sliders are nice but I'm not sure if they're worth the weight over the track ends.
> Sounds like the next generation VerHauen is smartly designed with some good folks standing behind it.
> Cheers,
> M


Yeah I would prefer the track ends because I have a bolt-on wheel. I'm pumped that they added a 44mm headtube and a better tubeset though. Plus, its 'Merican made!


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## Bas Vermond (Nov 14, 2012)

This is my Kona Unit Monstercross with Salsa Woodchipper bar, Brooks 232 Alpe D' Huez and Schwalbe Sammy Slick 1.35" tires.


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## meezo (Mar 3, 2012)

My 29er inbred LTD.... just after a wash before my first race with it.....


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## Bas Vermond (Nov 14, 2012)

I upgraded the headset with a Chris king.
The rest of the parts will be upgraded when they will be broken.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

davesauvageau said:


> That's a sweet, simple setup! How do you like that EBB?


Thanks. I had a GF Rig before this (with EBB also) both haven't been a problem. I discovered early on with the Rig that running the chain a bit loose kept the dreaded EBB creak monster away. No creaking on the Niner Biocentric generation 1 so far.

I'm debating on going to a larger chain ring or adding to my collection of cogs. I'm running 32x16 now (on the sub ~1500 ft. ascent and descent trails) and may go 33 or 34 up front to make for more mashing fun.


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Bas Vermond said:


> I upgraded the headset with a Chris king.
> The rest of the parts will be upgraded when they will be broken.


Where do you usually ride?


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## Bas Vermond (Nov 14, 2012)

I live in the Netherlands near the coast next to Amsterdam.
I ride most of the time urban or country roads.
Next to the coast there are the dunes were are a lot of nice single tracks trough the woods.


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## texasnavy05 (Sep 9, 2010)

meezo, where did you get those clamps for your seatpost cage bosses?


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

texasnavy05 said:


> meezo, where did you get those clamps for your seatpost cage bosses?


Looks kinda like these:

Bike24 - Specialized MTB Rear Cage Mount Bottle Cage Clamps


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## meezo (Mar 3, 2012)

texasnavy05 said:


> meezo, where did you get those clamps for your seatpost cage bosses?


Its the specialized ones.....



davesauvageau said:


> Looks kinda like these:
> 
> Bike24 - Specialized MTB Rear Cage Mount Bottle Cage Clamps


These exact ones yes... works like a bomb. When i race normally 45-60kms i only use 1 water bottle the rear is for tools help. Using the profile design cage with elastic on top of cage which helps alot too

Sent from my NexusHD2 using Tapatalk 2


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

Honestly didn't think I'd want a steel frame until I rode one.


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## boostin (Apr 21, 2008)

boostin said:


> Is this frame going to be around 29" wheels?  Another buddy of mine just took delivery on a steel 29er SS frame from Simple. He skipped the paint and had the frame nickel plated inside/out. Looks crazy! If your interested I'll get some pics of it and post them up.
> 
> edit-- I went ahead and robbed these pics off my friends FB page.


Finally got around to taking a few pics of the Simple Bicycle Co 29er SS my buddy built


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Honestly didn't think I'd want a steel frame until I rode one.


I try to convince my friends and coworkers that steel is the real deal. They can keep their aluminum and carbon and never experience the bliss of a steel singlespeed!


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

*Rootbeer!*

Steel, SS and fully rigid


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> Steel, SS and fully rigid


Got any more pics of that honey? Looks pretty sweet with that rootbeer and gold!


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

*you asked for more...*

OK - so here are a few more pics, including one with her ladyship covered in mud - where she is most at home.

Nothing super-duper: it's not a custom built frame or anything fancy like that.

But I love this bike 'cos I built it up from bits I bought cheap on eBay, and it rides like an absolute dream. Who needs suspension or gears with a steel frame like this? Reynolds 853 tubing. I find the carbon (fork, stem, bars, bar-ends) easier on my old hands too...

The Niner bottle cap top-cap is the ultimate finishing touch


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

...


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> OK - so here are a few more pics, including one with her ladyship covered in mud - where she is most at home.
> 
> Nothing super-duper: it's not a custom built frame or anything fancy like that.
> 
> ...


Thats a simple, effective, nice bike though. I don't necessarily need a custom frame, I just want one with some really specific specs . We have had a few inserts on those Bonty stems come out at the shop I work at, be careful and watch the steerer tube pinch bolts!


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

davesauvageau said:


> Thats a simple, effective, nice bike though. I don't necessarily need a custom frame, I just want one with some really specific specs . We have had a few inserts on those Bonty stems come out at the shop I work at, be careful and watch the steerer tube pinch bolts!


Gulp! :yikes:

Now you have me worried. What is the insert that comes out? I'll check the steerer tube pinch bolts and keep an eye on them... Thanks for the heads up


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## robinmbers (Dec 14, 2012)

yeah,If you're looking at the Gunnar bikes, then there are at least a couple custom steel builders with great reputations for around 20 - 25% more


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> Gulp! :yikes:
> 
> Now you have me worried. What is the insert that comes out? I'll check the steerer tube pinch bolts and keep an eye on them... Thanks for the heads up


Just don't over-torque it or anything and it should be fine. The insert is a piece of aluminum that the pinch bolts thread into. It is essentially the whole inside face of the split in the back that pulls inward. I think the epoxy fails and it just comes out. We have had them warrantied to the original owners, just watch for it, I don't want anyone losing teeth!


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

robinmbers said:


> yeah,If you're looking at the Gunnar bikes, then there are at least a couple custom steel builders with great reputations for around 20 - 25% more


Seriously considering the Vassago VerHauen. It has all the specs I'm looking for and is ultra versatile, USA made, nice tubese and has a 44mm headtube. Seems like a pretty awesome frame and for the price its in between say a Karate Monkey and an average custom frame.


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

sasquatch rides a SS said:


> Honestly didn't think I'd want a steel frame until I rode one.


And I just realized that in the past 2 years my fleet of bikes have gone from 100% aluminum to 75% steel. My last aluminum bike is for sale and it will be replaced with steel...weird. This definitely wasn't planned


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Ultimately, I want to get my SS 29er to be mainly American made. There are few things that I cannot get but I will try! My next purchase for my 29er and my Pugs will probably be a steel Groovy Luv Handle. After that, probably a Thomson stem and post. Eventually, an American built frame is in order.


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## Manicmtbr (Jan 26, 2004)

davesauvageau said:


> I try to convince my friends and coworkers that steel is the real deal. They can keep their aluminum and carbon and never experience the bliss of a steel singlespeed!


I have come to the point where I just keep it to myself. People are worried about a little extra weight or smitten with carbon fiber frames and just do not see the value of a hand made custom steel frame. My new frame just disappears under me.


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

^^^ Same here, but not even with a custom hand-built frame - I just have a standard Niner SIR9 and it feels better than any other bike I've ridden. It's so good I can go rigid (with reasonably big tyres) which, even though the frame is heavier, means the bike is still lighter overall.

But my biking buddies think I'm crazy riding steel - for them it's got to be either aluminium or carbon :madman:


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## JUNGLEKID5 (May 1, 2006)

keep up the good work


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Some pics of the Profile cranks, spline-drive chainwheel and bottom bracket on the Karate Monkey.


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

Nice. What is the gearing, Dave? It looks like the rear wheel is a far forward as it can get.


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

buddhak said:


> Nice. What is the gearing, Dave? It looks like the rear wheel is a far forward as it can get.


Yeah it is pretty close, the short rear end is really nice to bunnyhop and flick around. The gearing is 33/17, they came in weird sizes so I got funky with it! Haha also, everything is 1/8" so I don't have to run a 3/32" chain. Just a personal preference.


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## henrymiller1 (Apr 25, 2008)

My Gunnars kick ass. I was always a little scared after wrecking on my Salsa scandium Bandito. My Gunnars are heavier, but i feel better/ confident on them. That's enough for the 1 1/4 lbs. Try a Gunnar. Made in USA, 853, what else could you want? Really nice ride.


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

henrymiller1 said:


> My Gunnars kick ass. I was always a little scared after wrecking on my Salsa scandium Bandito. My Gunnars are heavier, but i feel better/ confident on them. That's enough for the 1 1/4 lbs. Try a Gunnar. Made in USA, 853, what else could you want? Really nice ride.


They are super nice bikes, do you think they could do a 44mm headtube?


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## JBCslt (Jan 22, 2013)

*slightly off topic - but...*

I can't create a new thread yet and was curious if anyone could tell me if this is a 26" or 29er based on the photo

(Redline Monocog '06 I believe)


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

check your tires for the size


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## JBCslt (Jan 22, 2013)

It's not mine  - nor is it in my possession 
Just didn't know if it was obvious by looking at it...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

If that's a 29 then that bike is freaking ginormous! 26 I'd guess.


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

JBCslt said:


> I can't create a new thread yet and was curious if anyone could tell me if this is a 26" or 29er based on the photo
> 
> (Redline Monocog '06 I believe)


I'll bet 26"


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## JBCslt (Jan 22, 2013)

Appreciate it. I found it on Craigslist and haven't heard from the guy what kind it is.


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

JBCslt said:


> Appreciate it. I found it on Craigslist and haven't heard from the guy what kind it is.


Here ya go - the 26" tyres in the spec gives it away -
Bikepedia


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## JBCslt (Jan 22, 2013)

that was also the first year the introduced the 29er  
I think you're right though.


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## mojak (Sep 27, 2005)

jones steel bike..ok so it's not made in the USA but the ride geo is awesome..


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## JBCslt (Jan 22, 2013)

So that bike is now mine. 

2006 Redline Monocog
New Bontrager XDX tires
Salsa Stem
Soma Hishou Saddle 
New post (dunno what kind)
Cane Creek Headset
Bontrager Race 620 Bars

First mountain bike I've ever had. Pretty new to bikes in general actually. Really sick ride - can't wait to tear it up on the snowy streets of South Lake Tahoe in the morning!


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## ako (Oct 23, 2012)

My On-One Inbred SS, in urban clothes.


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

ako said:


> My On-One Inbred SS, in urban clothes.


What fork is that? I can't make out exactly what it is.


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## loginhater (Jul 15, 2009)

Here's a little eye candy for you. Frame and fork came up used and I couldn't pass it up. Fork was built by Quiring. Lots of parts bin stuff on the build. Don't need a tensioner because it set up perfectly at a magic gear of 33 x 17, plenty reasonable for the Midwest. Was hoping to take it out for the first time this weekend but the weather isn't cooperating.


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## loginhater (Jul 15, 2009)

Hopefully the pic shows up now.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Redlines for me ...
...26 or 29 and Token Orgin8

Gotta say the Redline Monocogs really take all the abuse I can dish. I have learned though the Flight series is more flexy in a good way, but will take less abuse, and the O8 gets the kids gloves care as I don't think it would take much to really hurt it!


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## random walk (Jan 12, 2010)

+1 on the 'cog


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

loginhater said:


> Here's a little eye candy for you. Frame and fork came up used and I couldn't pass it up. Fork was built by Quiring. Lots of parts bin stuff on the build. Don't need a tensioner because it set up perfectly at a magic gear of 33 x 17, plenty reasonable for the Midwest. Was hoping to take it out for the first time this weekend but the weather isn't cooperating.


Sweet bike man, have you gotten a chance to weigh it?


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

loginhater said:


> .... Don't need a tensioner because it set up perfectly at a magic gear of 33 x 17, plenty reasonable for the Midwest.


Just curious - what will you do when the chain stretches...?

I guess it might not stretch that much - could be fine.


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## loginhater (Jul 15, 2009)

davesauvageau said:


> Sweet bike man, have you gotten a chance to weigh it?


Thanks. Have not weighed the whole build yet, but the frame -- a 20.5 -- was 5.5 pounds with the headset cups.


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## loginhater (Jul 15, 2009)

BigwheelsRbest said:


> Just curious - what will you do when the chain stretches...?
> 
> I guess it might not stretch that much - could be fine.


Hopefully it will hold for a while. I figure I'll try an 18t cog or just put a new chain on it when it gets bad.


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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

Here's mine - just finished the conversion.


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## wasfast (Sep 2, 2011)

scvkurt03 said:


> Here's mine - just finished the conversion.


 I like how you matched your cats eyes with your bike. That must have been expensive !


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## kragu (Jun 14, 2011)

You'd be surprised. Cat eye pigment technology has come a long way.


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## henrymiller1 (Apr 25, 2008)

cherepaha said:


> its steel and ss but comparing to your beauties its kind of shame to upload this picture, but i have great fun on this bike!


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Fancy, shiny parts are nice. Me and a buddy just built steel MTB bikes. His was all new, XTR , XO ect, mine was all used E-bay stuff ect.. At end of builds, his is shiny and $4000, mine was about 3/4 lbs lighter, and was $2500 less and faster. Its not as shiny. If you love that bike, That's all that matters. "Ride , Smile and Pedal Damn it".


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## BigwheelsRbest (Jun 12, 2007)

henrymiller1 said:


> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Fancy, shiny parts are nice. Me and a buddy just built steel MTB bikes. His was all new, XTR , XO ect, mine was all used E-bay stuff ect.. At end of builds, his is shiny and $4000, mine was about 3/4 lbs lighter, and was $2500 less and faster. Its not as shiny. If you love that bike, That's all that matters. "Ride , Smile and Pedal Damn it".


Agree with you. My favourite bike is the eBay rigid steel SS - not the carbon AM rig which cost 4x as much :thumbsup:


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## God's Favorite Bike (Dec 14, 2011)

*Thank you sir, may I have another?*

This is the first steel frame in forever, and I'm OLD! My last was probobly my blue Schwinn Stingray when I was 8 years old and gotta say I'm loving it. It was probobly an odd choice, but also wanted to see the whole belt thing in action. so it's what I've been goofin' with this last year and I'm really happy with what I ended up with.

I know the first belt drive XXIX, 2011 model had some quirks and flaws but I seldom buy the first year of anything just for that reason. I don't like to be some company's R&D guy on my dime. So I did my research and found that alot of pesky things were corrected. It also matched my "I'd have to ditch a coulple of bikes to buy a Spot." budget and changed parts as could be afforded.

2011 had problems with rear hub, chainstays that were too long and noodle-y, belt tracking issues, etc. and found that the 2012 they had improved these issues and got the 2012 ordered in rather than pay 250.00 less for a hold over 2011. They had added the outside plate to rear pulley, and shortened the chainstays about an inch (even shorter than a Spot Rocker) and upped belt width from 10mm to 11mm. I realize it's not made from magical tubing like a Spot is, but the frame geo's are really close (for 20" frame) and I'm poor.

I've ridden it a year and put a lot of miles on it and have had no problems whatsoever. Not from belt, or frame, or hubs. I am not petite either and at 230lbs/6'2" and with 2.4 tires even and haven't had any tire rub and they are quite larger than than the 2.2 Geax AKA's it shipped with. Maybe I got lucky, maybe the changes between model years were improvements, or I have better maintenance than some, or I just don't beat it that hard. Don't know and don't care. It works.

"Mommy Dearest" - She is a woman of steel and will beat your ass with her belt!(I name my bikes, don't you?)

2012 Raleigh XXIX

Truvativ Stylo Race stem
Truvativ Noir Race carbon bars
Truvativ Stylo Team seatpost
Truvativ Stylo SS crank
Rock Shox RE*3A top secret 110mm fork*** w/poplock remote
Tektro Auriga Comp hyro disks
Selle Italia SL XC saddle
FSA bash ring
Continental X-Kings 29x2.4
Answer Rove pedals
Shimano Deore XT skewers

1 year later and I really want to build up another steel frame but I'm doing a winter time build already to keep my sanity so maybe next summer. Just thought I'd testify...and gimme some snakes before I start talking in tongues.

*** Honorable mention to Dan Schmitz of Bicycle Sports, Rochester MN. One of my riding buddies and LBS mechanic for doing my fork. I was running an extra fork at first, a Tora 318 SL Solo Air w/Motion Control till a could get a fork. When I did I lost some height in the front because they moved the dropouts on the fork. Axle to crown was 1/2-3/4 of an inch shorter. Any longer (120mm) and it got squirly as hell. So, master mechanic Dan Schmitz, got creative and made it a 110mm fork to keep same front end height by going around the travel spacer's center, which is grooved in the center, with a razor blade to create a 110mm spacer out of the 120mm spacer..wa-la! Ride height maintained AND 10mm more travel.

Would love to see anyone else's ss belt drive of any kind and MORE steel SS's please!:thumbsup:


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## sasquatch rides a SS (Dec 27, 2010)

It's official, I've sold my last aluminum bike. All of my bikes have a steel frame now


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Okay so now that summer is a few months away I am getting the itch to start saving for my new frame. The contestants are currently:
1. Vassago Verhauen
2. Cielo Mountain Frame
3. True Fabrications / Waltworks / Quiring / Geekhouse Frame

Each option has all of the features I require and all fit a different price range. I don' t know if I necessarily need custom geometry but if I had the funds it would be a bonus. The Verhauen is the cheapest option and is a sweet frame and the Cielo can be bought through my work for a cheaper price than advertised so that's another option for me. While still deciding, I began switching my cockpit over to American made by ordering a Thomson stem and post.


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

No thanks to this thread, I have spent many a sleepless night imaginating on the perfect steel SS frame. So I made it official and put a deposit down for a Coconino (all roads lead to the coco-moto dropouts). Thanks for enabling, Dave Savageau and the assembled degenerates.


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## 4nbstd (Apr 12, 2012)

We are terrible people.


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

I'll be sure to mention that to the CFO come frame delivery time.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Yeah this thread has ruined my life as well. I can't stop thinking of little tweaks that might or might not work. Probably can't swing a custom frame for a while but did start the ball rolling for a fork this morning.

Dave, if I was spending the scratch for the verhauen frame (which I'm sure is great) I would probably save some more and go custom. Hard to go wrong with anything on your list though


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## 4SEVEN3 (Aug 12, 2007)

I love this thread! Some very nice rides posted here!!! I have one steel ride right now, a Surly but Im thinking about changing the carbon roadie to a steel frame too....

Im loving the ride of steel!!! 

Ride on!


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

Wow, congrats. I bet you will be pleased. I hope it will ride as good as they look!


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## jddjirikian (Aug 25, 2006)

Some very nice bikes in this thread. Here's my Engin


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## bzo75 (Mar 13, 2007)

jddjirikian said:


> Some very nice bikes in this thread. Here's my Engin


This one is stretching out my underwear. Very nice bike. I love all the matching components. It belongs at the hand made show this weekend if you ask me.


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

jddjirikian said:


> Some very nice bikes in this thread. Here's my Engin


Engin makes some very classy bikes. There are quite a few of them haunting the trails here in Philly, for obvious reason. Each one looks like a Rolex on wheels.


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## fer83 (Jan 7, 2007)

Awesome video, I think they are from czech republic


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## Zaskar24 (Jun 7, 2008)

buddhak said:


> No thanks to this thread, I have spent many a sleepless night imaginating on the perfect steel SS frame. So I made it official and put a deposit down for a Coconino (all roads lead to the coco-moto dropouts). Thanks for enabling, Dave Savageau and the assembled degenerates.


I was going to go with my second Quiring to be my dedicated singlespeed. I ended up ordering a Coconino from Steve Garro on his 10th anniversary of building frames. Are you going with the sexy curved top tube buddhak?


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

Zaskar24 said:


> Are you going with the sexy curved top tube buddhak?


Sheeeeee-it. Does the Pope wear a funny hat?

All I know right now is that a) there will be curves, b) there will be rigidity, and c) there will be a 135mm front hub.

EDIT: oh, and d) short-ass chainstays


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Glad to hear it buddhak! My Thomson gear should be here Wednesday next week. I was then looking for a decent American made bar. My instant thought was the steel Groovy Cycleworks Luv Handle. Great bar, steel, USA made, bling factor. I then saw that Thomson was producing bars. What could go wrong with Thomson right? Well all of their bars are made in Taiwan. Bummer. Then I found LP Composites. They make a carbon XC bar in the USA! I never thought I would see a carbon bar made in the states. The Groovy is about $130 to my door and the LP is $134 without shipping. Not sure if I want to go with a carbon bar or a steel bar. Any thoughts or other suggestions? 

I'm going to see how the Verhauen looks when it finally comes in stock at Vassago. I like everything about it and it is the cheapest option with some really nice features. For a fork, they suggest a Whiskey carbon tapered. Hmmmm.


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Oh, also saw the new updated pics of the Cielo Mountain Frame. Check out that fork!
Mountain Bike Details - Cielo Cycles


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

I find myself visiting the Groovy and Watson Cycles (Parkarino and Watts bars) websites more frequently than I should. Then I slap myself and recall that the 2 Carnegie bars I bought off Ebay for $25 are perfection. That being said, we are all bike ho's, are we not? Bring the Bling.


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## Zaskar24 (Jun 7, 2008)

buddhak said:


> Sheeeeee-it. Does the Pope wear a funny hat?
> 
> All I know right now is that a) there will curves, b) there will be rigidity, and c) there will be a 135mm front hub.


So all this time mt friends have been lying to me about how cool those hats are? Should have guessed it though.

I going curvy on mine as well. Though it will have squish up front. Looking forward to seeing yours when it is done!


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## ecthelion (May 6, 2007)

davesauvageau said:


> I then saw that Thomson was producing bars. What could go wrong with Thomson right? Well all of their bars are made in Taiwan. Bummer. . . . Any thoughts or other suggestions?


ENVE bar is also made in USA and rides great with the Thomson stem. Also, from what I hear, Thomson is going to be moving that line stateside by 2015.


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## diruk (Feb 24, 2013)

If annybody knows a good full steel fully to replace mine Ventana el rey....


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

I thought the same but according to the latest Bicycle Retailer magazine only ENVE wheel goods are made in the USA. Their fork, stem, bar and seatpost is made in Taiwan. They are planning on moving everything stateside as well in a 7 year span.

Little excerpt from Bikerumor:

_In addition to the components, ENVE makes all of their tooling, tables, work benches, and machines in house. Pretty much the only things they don't do in house are paint, decals and anodization.

While the rims are all made in UT, their components are mostly made overseas for now. Some are made domestically, and Schiers says they're working to do more here.

"First and foremost, we're designing the laminates here, prototyping here and completely designing everything here, including the tooling," Schiers says. "Then we take it over there, and we're in frequent (weekly) communication with them to maintain a consistency in the product. Then we do the final testing here, too."

They're also contemplating a full time position at the foreign factories to oversee their production. Schiers said even if they could ramp up production here in the US to help speed aftermarket order fulfillment, there would always be an Asian component to their manufacturing. Why? Because OEM customers need the product quickly and it makes more sense to have it made in and delivered to the same area when their products are being spec'd on production bikes.
_
I don't know if they make an American made handlebar, but if they do I would buy it!


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## vanjr (Mar 16, 2008)

Wow, you guys really know how to hurt a steel wanna be-er.

Would love a Quiring or a Wojcik. But probably will end up with a surly or salsa or redline


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

No experience with Redlines but Surlys and Salsas are great bikes - don't let the price tag fool ya. I've got a Karate Monkey that I *love*. I love it so much that I can't see myself moving to anything except a custom frame - that will probably be based on the KM's geometry but with a few tweaks to better accommodate my short legs / long torso (having ridden both, I would love a karate monkey with the seat tube length/standover of a medium but the top tube length of a large, with suspension correction removed from the equation). Even that I'm not sure would be an upgrade to be honest, so I'm just pimping out the monkey the best I can in the meantime


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## disgustipated (Apr 29, 2006)

Fellow steel-o-phile here. Custom frame/fork, ficksed gear. I'm pimpin this baby all over these forums 









Then there's my "cross" bike that really isn't a cross bike aside from frame geometry. I built the frame under the watchful eye of my buddy Jay who used to be Stoic Cycles.


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Called ENVE today. They said the only bar that would be stateside currently is the Downhill bar. They mix the DH bars made in Taiwan and the ones made in UT, there really is no difference. He did say that the Taiwan built bars go through Quality Control twice, whereas the US built bars go through once. All of the tooling is made in US and the carbon layups are a proprietary blend for ENVE, so it is pretty much made in US but they keep the Taiwan manufacturing to supply the rest of the world.


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## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Some from my archives:

Shortly after getting this (my first) custom I went single speed only for many years:









I thought this Peregrine would be great, but I found it just kind of slow and lazy:









I liked this Gunnar a lot, rode very well. Too bad about the midget head tube:









I recently picked up a similar vintage Ruffian, same size, but the magic doesn't seem to be there. Oh well.

and many more...

My current rides:









and my trust Crosscheck:


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## ecthelion (May 6, 2007)

davesauvageau said:


> Called ENVE today. They said the only bar that would be stateside currently is the Downhill bar. They mix the DH bars made in Taiwan and the ones made in UT, there really is no difference. He did say that the Taiwan built bars go through Quality Control twice, whereas the US built bars go through once. All of the tooling is made in US and the carbon layups are a proprietary blend for ENVE, so it is pretty much made in US but they keep the Taiwan manufacturing to supply the rest of the world.


Wow. I thought they brought everything in house in 2012 . . . remember reading something to that effect on their website? I know their rep at NAHBS '11 said they were planning to go US but was vague on "when"


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

buddhak said:


> Sheeeeee-it. Does the Pope wear a funny hat?
> 
> All I know right now is that a) there will be curves, b) there will be rigidity, and c) there will be a 135mm front hub.
> 
> EDIT: oh, and d) short-ass chainstays


Well Glen, I suppose it is kinda funny.

I seriously considered one of Steve's frames. The man does incredible work. I'm going with Waltworks, in large part because of his being mostly local.
Steve's terrain and experience are pretty close to the riding here in Boise, but Walt is just a 3 1/2 hour drive away.

I'm going with short stays, curvy seat tube, maybe a curvy top tube, probably a 44mm head tube.

I like your idea of a 135mm fork, though...

Loz


----------



## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

sslos said:


> I like your idea of a 135mm fork, though...
> 
> Loz


I have no idea what a 135mm spaced front 29er wheel will feel like...probably a lot like a 100mm spaced one. But if I am going custom, then why not, right? The cheaper alternative I had settled on when this thread first started was to pop a Carver carbon O'Beast on the front of my Karate Monkey and see how things went. But who can stick to a modest plan like that when surrounded by bike fiends like y'all?

Who's Glen, btw?


----------



## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

sslos said:


> I'm going with short stays, curvy seat tube, maybe a curvy top tube, probably a 44mm head tube.


I thought Walt was staunchly against curved tubes?


----------



## Crimargia (Jun 12, 2011)

*2SoulsCycles*


----------



## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

buddhak said:


> I have no idea what a 135mm spaced front 29er wheel will feel like...probably a lot like a 100mm spaced one. But if I am going custom, then why not, right? The cheaper alternative I had settled on when this thread first started was to pop a Carver carbon O'Beast on the front of my Karate Monkey and see how things went. But who can stick to a modest plan like that when surrounded by bike fiends like y'all?
> 
> Who's Glen, btw?


I thought you were quoting Raising Arizona, so I was responding in kind...
Yeah, stupid bike jerks with their cool custom bikes...



Wish I Were Riding said:


> I thought Walt was staunchly against curved tubes?


Not anymore.

Los


----------



## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

I see now the error of my mistake.

And I love that movie like no other...


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Got my Thomson gear on, X4 stem and Elite post. A little bit more 'Merican! Next step is that bar and probably a frameset over the summer. Pretty much narrowed it down to:

Vassago Verhauen with a Waltworks fork
Roughly $1300

or

Waltworks frameset
Roughly $1650

Can't go wrong either way, leaning more toward the Waltworks frameset though.


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## MassgraveX (Mar 20, 2008)

Dude! If you're gonna drop that amount of money...spend the extra and get a Waltworks....no question if you ask me.


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## chowdownca (Jun 21, 2006)

*What about Rock Lobster?*

I have a Rock Lobster that I got about 7 years ago and it's still the litmus test for any new bike. Unfortunately, it's also 26" wheels and linear braked, but still the most enjoyable bike I've had....well, that was until my Seven showed up..but it's a Mudhoney SL, so that's different, right?


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> I thought Walt was staunchly against curved tubes?


 Not anymore.


----------



## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

Is there an echo in here?


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Is there an echo in here?


----------



## crackerbat (Oct 8, 2012)

About 5, one hour+ snow rides, cleaned after every one. You just can't stop the rust on this thing. It's about 2 months old.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

I guess thats why you don't see a ton of steel bikes with a raw finish (which looks sweet BTW). I still see plenty of rust in spots on my powdercoated KM though, mostly around the dropouts where water can collect. And the DT bolts have a nice speckling going too - hoping eventually enough rust will build up there that I can call it a patina 

Imagine this problem is greatly reduced on stainless frames but don't have any firsthand experience there.


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## p4nh4ndle (Oct 11, 2012)

davesauvageau said:


> Waltworks frameset
> Roughly $1650


Unless you somehow come across my stolen one and buy it for a song. You know, until you boneheadedly post a picture of it here and I have to regulate


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

What kind of moron would order one of these damn things anyway?

Oh yeah, THIS MORON! Ordered the ENVE DH bar on Thursday, hopefully it will be here this week sometime.


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## p4nh4ndle (Oct 11, 2012)

Doesn't seem so moronic to me. Nothin' wrong with having something nice to put your hands on.

Their web site copy reads a bit an ad for natural male enhancement; "place your hands in natural and confident positions... know that you are in for the best experience a bar can offer." lulz. I'm sure.


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Haha, yeah I will love it! Just never thought I would drop that kind of money on a handlebar, but it will be worth it!


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

So I had the ENVE bar in the cart but it didn't get ordered until we got our minimum order amount. When we went around to order, they were out of stock. Bummer. I called Rody from Groovy and asked if he still had some Luv Handles laying around from NAHBS and he had 2 left! Needless to say, I have a ceramic coated steel Luv Handle with a shim coming my way in the next few days!


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

So I had the ENVE bar in the cart but it didn't get ordered until we got our minimum order amount. When we went around to order, they were out of stock. Bummer. I called Rody from Groovy and asked if he still had some Luv Handles laying around from NAHBS and he had 2 left! Needless to say, I have a ceramic coated steel Luv Handle with a shim coming my way in the next few days!


----------



## boostin (Apr 21, 2008)

Bummer! My buddy just installed a set of those ENVE bars on his Mojo. Those puppies are thick!


----------



## Lumbee1 (Dec 16, 2004)

While on the subject of fabulous handlebars for a steel singlespeed, I just picked up this for my Karate Monkey.







Syntace Vector Carbon riser bar, (31.8) 12 deg/29.1 in. - carbon, Handlebars
BTW, best price by $30 and if you look around you can get an additional 10% off


----------



## disgustipated (Apr 29, 2006)

I absolutely have to know what 2:00-2:15 is all about!!!!!!!!!


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

p4nh4ndle said:


> Unless you somehow come across my stolen one and buy it for a song. You know, until you boneheadedly post a picture of it here and I have to regulate


Excuse me, what?


----------



## p4nh4ndle (Oct 11, 2012)

This used to be mine:









I guess it technically still is mine; I just don't have it any more.

I'm pretty sure I know the identity of the little hood rat who stole it too. Getting service of process on a 17 year old kid who crashes out wherever he is at the moment is kinda tough though.


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Got some Luv from Ohio today!


----------



## worrptangl (Jun 23, 2009)

You'll love them! I love mine!


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

worrptangl said:


> You'll love them! I love mine!


Yeah, they feel just right. I got the ceramic coated one and it looks fresh too. I thought I would want a wider bar but I am confident that they will feel good. If I got another one I might add an inch to both sides so I can play around with width a bit more but I feel very fortunate to even have a set in my possession!


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

I'll just leave these here


----------



## loginhater (Jul 15, 2009)

Yeah, great thread. Would be interesting to see how many new frame purchases it has produced. I'm loving my new (to me) Rockhound.


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

Oooh.. Ceramic Groovy Luv...would look nice on a ceramic coated Coconino I think. Correction: I imagine.


----------



## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

I have a Siren John Henry frame shoved in a closet somewhere I've been debating on turning SS.


----------



## vaultbrad (Oct 17, 2007)

Debating? I love the way sirens look. Make it a singlespeed.

Speaking of steel single speeds. I'll slap this here too, until I get a much more funner picture of it in the wild.


----------



## misterdangerpants (Oct 10, 2007)

Posted these 3 steel single speed in the 650B SS thread:



misterdangerpants said:


> Been riding 650B since 2010.
> 
> Currently riding a 2007 Ted Wojcik "Yo Teddy" (single speed conversion performed by Circle A Cycles in 2012):
> 
> ...


----------



## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

vaultbrad said:


> Debating? I love the way sirens look. Make it a singlespeed.


Only reason I am debating is because I already have a SS so I just need to decide whether I want another or a geared bike to replace the RockHopper I sold last year. I do thing the Siren would make a nice SS frame though.


----------



## OneBadWagon (Mar 29, 2007)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> I thought Walt was staunchly against curved tubes?


----------



## Sologear (Oct 27, 2012)

davesauvageau said:


> Got some Luv from Ohio today!


Whats the model in that one?


----------



## av8trinabarrel (Feb 1, 2006)

vaultbrad said:


> Debating? I love the way sirens look. Make it a singlespeed.
> 
> Speaking of steel single speeds. I'll slap this here too, until I get a much more funner picture of it in the wild.


Send me a pm and I will give you my recent horror story with Brendan and Siren. I wont bag the guy publicly, but run run run far away. I went with Retrotec after returning 2 frames to Brendan and couldn't be happier.


----------



## av8trinabarrel (Feb 1, 2006)

Nubster said:


> Only reason I am debating is because I already have a SS so I just need to decide whether I want another or a geared bike to replace the RockHopper I sold last year. I do thing the Siren would make a nice SS frame though.


If you have never built the Siren yet, you may wanna make sure Brendan or the guy he actually has making his frames, got the chain stay measurements correct. My SECOND frame I sent back to him last summer had one chain stay 1/8" longer than the other. As you can imagine, the rear wheel didn't exactly fit to well. Pathetic........


----------



## Saddle Up (Jan 30, 2008)

av8trinabarrel said:


> I wont bag the guy publicly,


 Too late?


----------



## Zaskar24 (Jun 7, 2008)

loginhater said:


> Yeah, great thread. Would be interesting to see how many new frame purchases it has produced. I'm loving my new (to me) Rockhound.


I ordered a Coconino from Steve Garro after seeing some really sweet ones in this thread. Or I should say i got on his waiting list before he closed it until next year. On his 10th anniversary no less.


----------



## av8trinabarrel (Feb 1, 2006)

Saddle Up said:


> Too late?


Too late for what??? If I wanted to bag on Brendan publicly, I would have gone on for 4 pages about what I think of his frame building skills. A simple statement that my 2 frame in two months had one chainstay longer than the other is hardly bashing someone. No ego or hatred in my post.....simple facts jack


----------



## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

Zaskar24 said:


> I ordered a Coconino from Steve Garro after seeing some really sweet ones in this thread. Or I should say i got on his waiting list before he closed it until next year. On his 10th anniversary no less.


Strong work, sir. I can't wait to see it.


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## vaultbrad (Oct 17, 2007)

Zaskar24 said:


> I ordered a Coconino from Steve Garro after seeing some really sweet ones in this thread. Or I should say i got on his waiting list before he closed it until next year. On his 10th anniversary no less.


He does really cool work. Good luck waiting. I would either get very anxious or forget that I was on the list and get a surprise when it came my turn.


----------



## loginhater (Jul 15, 2009)

Zaskar24 said:


> I ordered a Coconino from Steve Garro after seeing some really sweet ones in this thread. Or I should say i got on his waiting list before he closed it until next year. On his 10th anniversary no less.


Will be the sweetest ride at PFPD, no doubt. I'll be keeping an eye out for it.


----------



## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

av8trinabarrel said:


> If you have never built the Siren yet, you may wanna make sure Brendan or the guy he actually has making his frames, got the chain stay measurements correct. My SECOND frame I sent back to him last summer had one chain stay 1/8" longer than the other. As you can imagine, the rear wheel didn't exactly fit to well. Pathetic........


I'll check it out. I have not built the frame yet. Thanks for the heads up.


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

This new forum layout really turns me off so I don't frequent as much as I used to but I'm glad to see this thread still running strong! Nice looking Waltworks OneBadWagon! Can't wait to see that Coconico Zaskar24, his fillets are boss. Now that summer is here, I can focus on working and making some money for my first custom 29er frame. The options still stand with Waltworks, True Fabrications, Geekhouse and Ground Up Speed Shop. I'm really liking what Ground Up has to offer, his paintjobs are so spot on. Super American, blingy and great fabrication. I called him to nail down prices and I could swing it fairly easily. All of the fabricators on my list are within the same rough price range. Should have a frame deposit saved up in a month or so! 

Check out some Ground Up!


----------



## LowOnO2 (Nov 1, 2011)

Here is my new 650b frame with 29 wheels. I am waiting for a 650b tire to use the smaller wheelset. I will trim the brakeline as soon as I decide on which frame to keep the set on.


----------



## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

My Coconino cruiser with a Waltworks fork.


----------



## nelsonccc (Jan 1, 2011)

*My steel Origin 8*







Here's my Origin 8 Steel frame. Thouroughly impressed with how much of a difference steel makes. Love it! Not in the pick is the new Hope/Flow wheelset that was required after tacoing the front rim in the Whiskey race.


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Man that Coconino is sick! How did you match colors? Who painted them? I like the V-brake SS setup, very easy to maintain!


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

davesauvageau said:


> Man that Coconino is sick! How did you match colors? Who painted them? I like the V-brake SS setup, very easy to maintain!


Thanks. The color is the RAL# for Kawasaki Green. When Steve was building the frame, I sent the fork out to him. At the time he was using a local powder coater.

Another Coco cruiser showed up this afternoon on my porch, also V brake. Both bikes' wheelsets have ceramic brake tracks and stop just fine for a SS. And I don't want to deal with hydros in some remote corner of the globe. This one was sent out to Spectrum.


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## mcoplea (Nov 11, 2004)

*Basic Black*

My Niner SIR taking a break and enjoying the view.


----------



## dvn (Apr 6, 2011)

Great first ride on my Kona Unit


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Vader said:


> Thanks. The color is the RAL# for Kawasaki Green. When Steve was building the frame, I sent the fork out to him. At the time he was using a local powder coater.
> 
> Another Coco cruiser showed up this afternoon on my porch, also V brake. Both bikes' wheelsets have ceramic brake tracks and stop just fine for a SS. And I don't want to deal with hydros in some remote corner of the globe. This one was sent out to Spectrum.


I can totally respect that, what rims did you use? We used to have Bontrager rims with ceramic coatings on it but I've seen a few come back chipped, dented and ruined. What brake setup do you choose to go with? Those both look like pretty fresh rides!


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

mcoplea said:


> My Niner SIR taking a break and enjoying the view.
> 
> View attachment 803259


I was just talking to a co-worker about his SIR 9 build! He is going to put a suspension fork and a geared drivetrain on his. I have always loved that frame, what did you build it up with?


----------



## rti27 (Dec 9, 2012)

You gotta have a steel bike in the collection.


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

rti27 said:


> You gotta have a steel bike in the collection.


Or just make them all steel! 

San Jose's are sweet, I really like the new paint scheme. Yours looks like a great commuter rig!


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## mcoplea (Nov 11, 2004)

davesauvageau said:


> I was just talking to a co-worker about his SIR 9 build! He is going to put a suspension fork and a geared drivetrain on his. I have always loved that frame, what did you build it up with?


I love my SIR's. Currently, I have one set up SS rigid and one set up SS w/ front suspension.

The rigid...

Niner Fork
Chris King Headset
XT Brakes
XT Cranks
Salsa 32T chainring
Endless Kick ASS 19t cog
DT Swiss 240s hubs laced to Stan's Arch rims
Thomson seatpost and stem
Niner Flat Top Bars
Ergon GS2 Grips


----------



## slohr (May 22, 2008)

*KHS Solo-One SE*

Love this bike. Steel fork was OK, but man was it heavy! Over 3.5 pounds or something. Love the Niner fork.

Bike has been a joy to ride. This bike has been discontinued, seemed like SS was just getting popular when they did that.


----------



## Diesel (Dec 23, 2003)

*Retrotec Twin 29er SS*

This is/was my dream bike and it is every bit as awesome as I hoped it would be.


----------



## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

Diesel said:


> This is/was my dream bike and it is every bit as awesome as I hoped it would be.
> View attachment 805505


Whoa! When I look at that sweet bici, my mind sees this...


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

buddhak said:


> Whoa! When I look at that sweet bici, my mind sees this...


Reminded me of the blue/orange and cream Bontrager Privateers!


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Little bit of an update.
Riding the KM the other day and I lost one of the bolts from my Profile crankset. Bummer, but I learned a lesson on crankset upkeep and monitoring my setup. Had to get a new set, not cheap at $25 retail! Haha, at least I have a spare! Bolts came in today but I went to put them on and I had a flat rear tire. Thinking about running tubeless in the near future to help with flats. 

Ordered a DT RWS steel skewer, a couple spare lock rings and a set of Hope F20 pedals. Only consistent complaint on the pedals that I have seen is the hight price! I can handle the price and I just want an awesome, long-lasting pedal. 

Got the Goodridge hoses installed, left them a bit long just in case the new frame has a different setup. I can always trim hoses and re-bleed.


----------



## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Lookin good! I think I've finally finished tweaking things on my KM, will try to get a decent picture on the trail this weekend. Thanks for that picture of the privateer, those things are so great. I've never had one, but think about them often. Trying to talk my friend into building his old privateer (in the rasta color scheme) up as an SS, or at least a 1x.


----------



## Kyri (Mar 1, 2009)

About time I saw pics of your KM, Dave! Very nice...you aren't really going to replace it, are you?


----------



## Kyri (Mar 1, 2009)

Diesel said:


> This is/was my dream bike and it is every bit as awesome as I hoped it would be.
> View attachment 805505


Love. This. Frame.


----------



## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

buddhak said:


> Whoa! When I look at that sweet bici, my mind sees this...
> 
> View attachment 805549


That is not a bad thing...at all!


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

AlexCuse said:


> Lookin good! I think I've finally finished tweaking things on my KM, will try to get a decent picture on the trail this weekend. Thanks for that picture of the privateer, those things are so great. I've never had one, but think about them often. Trying to talk my friend into building his old privateer (in the rasta color scheme) up as an SS, or at least a 1x.


We got one in at the shop and the guy is really getting tired of people asking if he would ever consider selling it!  I have asked at least twice! I want to get my hands on one and run it fully geared with a suspension fork, a real "practical" mountain bike but that's no fun!


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Kyri said:


> About time I saw pics of your KM, Dave! Very nice...you aren't really going to replace it, are you?


Haha, that's the idea! Don't get me wrong, I like the frame and it has been very good to me. I just have a strong desire to get an American made steel frame. A local shop stocks Gunnars and I have been asking them about talking Gunnar into doing a 44mm headtube Ruffian. Probably not going to happen but it would be sweet if they could!


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

New parts! Some first impressions:
Hope F20 pedals
Ridiculous light at 388g with all pins installed. My old Fly Ruben pedals were 465g so I dropped a bit of weight. The surface is incredibly grippy even without pins. The machining forms more of a peak to the machined ridges than the pictures on their site shows. Also, they ship with the pins and an allen wrench in the box but not installed so the rider can tune in grip right away. The pin design is perfect, they thread in from the back so threads cannot be damaged. They also came with 10 extra pins just in case. 

DT RWS skewer
Simple, effective and lighter than my old Bontrager skewer. 50.3g instead of 58.9. Initial setup was great, should hold up nicely in the future.

Continental X King Race Sport 2.4
As usual, an awesome tire. Mounted up nice and tight on my Velocity P-35 rims so when I go tubeless it will be a breeze. Some measurements of the new tire, 58mm casing width and weigh 628g. My old Race King 2.2 tires had a 59mm casing width and 667.5g. I was a little disappointed that the new tires weren't wider but they seem like a very very nice tire. They appear to have more volume than the Race Kings and are significantly more knobby. Ride report in the future!


----------



## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

The KM never had it so good. Dave, you are the Monkey Pimp. The hope pedals look sweet.


----------



## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

I just put a 2.4 x-king on front (stayed with a 2.2 in the rear) and it is a great tire - tracks super confidently, while still a fast roller. I found with 2.2's F/R that it would break away a bit unpredictably at times but with the 2.4 up front it holds on much better, and makes it easier to slide the back out if I need to take evasive action.

Got a new stem and handlebars too. So far I'm really liking the flat bars vs the old risers. Good times.


----------



## Sologear (Oct 27, 2012)

davesauvageau said:


> Little bit of an update.
> Riding the KM the other day and I lost one of the bolts from my Profile crankset. Bummer, but I learned a lesson on crankset upkeep and monitoring my setup. Had to get a new set, not cheap at $25 retail! Haha, at least I have a spare! Bolts came in today but I went to put them on and I had a flat rear tire. Thinking about running tubeless in the near future to help with flats.
> 
> Ordered a DT RWS steel skewer, a couple spare lock rings and a set of Hope F20 pedals. Only consistent complaint on the pedals that I have seen is the hight price! I can handle the price and I just want an awesome, long-lasting pedal.
> ...


Fantastic bike you have there!
The rims and handlebar? Whats the manufacturer is that?


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks Sologear! Its a Groovy Luv Handle from Rody at Groovy Cycleworks. The rims are Velocity P-35 while Velocity was still made in Australia.


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

buddhak said:


> The KM never had it so good. Dave, you are the Monkey Pimp. The hope pedals look sweet.


Thanks man! It will have a couple more improvements, but then again, it may not be a Karate Monkey anymore! I really love the geometry of this frame though, I have dialed and tuned things so it fits me pretty well. The pedals are the cat's pajamas too, very grippy and total bling!


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

AlexCuse said:


> I just put a 2.4 x-king on front (stayed with a 2.2 in the rear) and it is a great tire - tracks super confidently, while still a fast roller. I found with 2.2's F/R that it would break away a bit unpredictably at times but with the 2.4 up front it holds on much better, and makes it easier to slide the back out if I need to take evasive action.
> 
> Got a new stem and handlebars too. So far I'm really liking the flat bars vs the old risers. Good times.


Dang! Nice setup, can we get a bit of a breakdown on your build? Is that a Carver Ti Bar?


----------



## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Yeah its actually a defective one - last one in stock at the time (720 instead of 730 width so markings are off but otherwise all good). Ill try to get better pics soon but heres the gory details:

Medium KM
Waltworks tapered blade fork
King headset
Thomson stem/post
Bontrager saddle
Stans Arch EX/DT swiss 240 ss/supercomp
BB7s
E13 ss crank, niner chainring, bbg bash

Advertising messages bug me so I sat down with a 6 pack and some wd40 and removed em one night, except the 'natch' one.

I think a custom frame is in order at some point. Large KM fits better in top tube and front end height but my legs are a little too short for it. This will definitely do for now


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

AlexCuse said:


> Yeah its actually a defective one - last one in stock at the time (720 instead of 730 width so markings are off but otherwise all good). Ill try to get better pics soon but heres the gory details:
> 
> Medium KM
> Waltworks tapered blade fork
> ...


Very nice! Does the bar flex a lot? How do you like that fork? Looks dead sexy and Walt is the boss! I have been thinking about just sticking with 1 1/8 headtube because I want a nice American steel fork like your Walt and there's no sense in a tapered steel steerer fork I guess. Maybe a Gunnar Ruffian, Waltworks fork and Chris King headset&#8230;.


----------



## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Some flex but actually super stiff compared to old crank bros alloy bars (cobalt 3). I think because the old ones were risers. Flex of the old bars was great w/ surly fork and even better with carbon on one fork, but new fork was built for max compliance and Walt delivered on that more than I couldve imagined. I compare the way it rides to a paintbrush - it can track perfectly over anything but you need a steady hand. The flex of the old bars made it feel just a bit vague. 

The only drawback to the fork is that small bump chatter isnt soaked up as well as a carbon fork. It rips on the chunky stuff though, and at high speeds it turns the bike into a giant spring making chatter absorption irrelevant.


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Talked to Cielo yesterday and got some information on the frame and fork options. The frame comes with all of my specs, 44mm headtube, American made, sliding dropouts, S-Bend stays and pure beauty. The fork is expected to release in early October-ish and will come with a tapered steel steerer tube and an option for traditional quick release dropouts. I wasn't able to get a price on the fork yet but I can get the frame down to a decent price. That purple edition colorway is pretty boss!
THE PURPLE EDITION ? Cielo Cycles

Look at that beautiful HT/Headset/Fork crown setup!
Mountain Bike Details ? Cielo Cycles


----------



## crifer (Aug 10, 2013)

I'm new around here, but here's my newest addition. 2009 Haro Steel Reserve 1. She's at the powder coater along with a rigid fork. Sky's the limit.


----------



## dinoadventures (May 2, 2008)

av8trinabarrel said:


> If you have never built the Siren yet, you may wanna make sure Brendan or the guy he actually has making his frames, got the chain stay measurements correct. My SECOND frame I sent back to him last summer had one chain stay 1/8" longer than the other. As you can imagine, the rear wheel didn't exactly fit to well. Pathetic........


I'm sorry to hear that. : /

I'll toss this in... so he made me this:









Did everything I wanted it to for three years. All my other bikes are sold or dusty.

So for my birthday I put new wheels (profile elites/flows) on it.










Still rides awesome. I'm the run-it-into-the-ground type, and it's been so reliable. Maybe we'll see how it likes that new Cdale Left Super Max and those velocity 45mm rims; I've got the clearance. If I had to do it again, only thing I would change would be to skip the ISCG tabs and hammerschmidt cable routing lol.


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

dinoadventures said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. : /
> 
> I'll toss this in... so he made me this:


Man, she's pretty! I love my Profile Classic hubset, how do you like your Elite's? What spokes are those!?


----------



## dinoadventures (May 2, 2008)

davesauvageau said:


> Man, she's pretty! I love my Profile Classic hubset, how do you like your Elite's?  What spokes are those!?


Thanks. They're powdercoat DT 2.0 straight guage. The wheelset weighs about the same as the Chubs/Flows/DT 2.0/1.8 Comp set. I only got one ride on the Elites so far because of the rain, but they've crazy stuff. They sound like a rattlesnake any time I'm not pedaling or not pedaling fast enough, and the pawls grab super-solid. The bearing seals aren't confidence-inspiring, but we'll see how long that lasts me. The Chubs still spin like new.


----------



## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Two in the garage right now (three if you count my Crosscheck)


----------



## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

Love the Blackbuck! 435mm or 455mm fork?


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

It will be interesting to see how the new hubs hold up. Nice job doing something unique with the spokes. When I built wheels I considered the Chub hubset too, what made you switch wheels?


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

seat_boy said:


> Two in the garage right now (three if you count my Crosscheck)


Can we get a bike check on those? They look pretty sweet!


----------



## dinoadventures (May 2, 2008)

davesauvageau said:


> It will be interesting to see how the new hubs hold up. Nice job doing something unique with the spokes. When I built wheels I considered the Chub hubset too, what made you switch wheels?


Trails were wet and I got a deal on ebay. Been like a year since I changed anything else on it besides BB bearings.


----------



## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

435mm. I had a Blackbuck a few years ago with the 455 fork, and I really preferred the handling on that one (although I do appreciate the 435mm fork and the resulting 74* head angle giving a big middle finger to all those slack bikes out there!)

I made some comparison notes between these two here.



Stevob said:


> Love the Blackbuck! 435mm or 455mm fork?


----------



## seat_boy (May 16, 2006)

Thanks, but I'm not sure what you mean by "bike check"? Maybe bigger pictures?



















Or reviews? Blackbuck here and Gryphon here.

And one of my CC so it doesn't feel left out!











davesauvageau said:


> Can we get a bike check on those? They look pretty sweet!


----------



## nhmtns (May 4, 2004)

I currently ride a Surly KM and it's a decent bike. Nothing spectacular in terms of the way it rides, but it fits me well and I ride it every day. Was riding with the rigid Surly fork, but recently switched to a Reba RLT. 

Previously owned a Misfit Psycles Dissent SS. It's an aluminum frame, but it rode WAY better than the KM. Wish I never sold it.


----------



## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Seems like a good post for the thread dedicated to the love of steel bikes 

Here is a cool picture to lift people's spirits


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## dinoadventures (May 2, 2008)

Super rad : )


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## febikes (Jan 28, 2011)

My new steel singlespeed; sliders all all the way forward with a half link on the chain, 2.1 tire, and 48 tooth chainring.

The bike lives for speed on gravel.










The steel on this bike is a mix of True Temper and Nova tubes with Paragon Sliders. Steel gives a bike a special energy. Short chainstays make the bike feel like it every ounce of effort goes into the rear cog. The front end tracks and feels great when climbing out of the saddle well with the steel fork. Frame is 4.3# the complete bike is 24.5# as pictured but with some lighter parts it would be pretty easy to shed some weight.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Cool ride. Geo numbers?


febikes said:


> My new steel singlespeed; sliders all all the way forward with a half link on the chain, 2.1 tire, and 48 tooth chainring.
> 
> The bike lives for speed on gravel.
> 
> ...


----------



## enrlodi (Feb 17, 2013)

LowOnO2 said:


> Here is my new 650b frame with 29 wheels. I am waiting for a 650b tire to use the smaller wheelset. I will trim the brakeline as soon as I decide on which frame to keep the set on.


can you post a picture of the space of rear wheel arch?
I like so much Soma B-Side frame and I find interesting to use with 29er wheels.
tanks,
Enrico


----------



## febikes (Jan 28, 2011)

jeff said:


> Cool ride. Geo numbers?


It's pretty basic "race" inspired geometry, cross posted with the framebuilding forum on the "http://forums.mtbr.com/frame-building/your-bikes-503109-6.html#post10693704" thread.


----------



## RPG (Sep 16, 2005)

*Got 2 of 'em*

[SUB][/SUB]Kona Unit and All City NB Zona


----------



## jaycastlerock (Jul 31, 2009)

*OK I'll bite*


----------



## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

Wow -- great thread. Kind of embarrassed to admit that I just read the entire thing 

I'm surprised that not a single person mentioned Black Cat as an option. Especially since several folks talked about lugs, curvy tubes, short chainstays and killer paint schemes. Todd's the master at all of the above.

That said, here's my latest steel singlespeed. More cushion = less pushin'. (not really, but it sure is fun 





















And, in action...


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

So I called Cielo Thursday and got some potentially bad news. Their 29er fork may not go into production. The associate on the phone made it sound like it wasn't going to happen. Super bummed. I am going to do some emailing and see what I can do but it sounds like the matching fork won't happen. I could always do the Cielo frame with a Waltworks fork, maybe if I convince him to do a tapered steerer tube….

CCSS, can we get a build breakdown for your Krampus? She looks pretty fun! I love Black Cat but I don't think I can swing $2300 base frame price right now! Beautiful work and totally worth the money.


----------



## rouxtjie (Sep 2, 2013)

davesauvageau said:


> So I called Cielo Thursday and got some potentially bad news. Their 29er fork may not go into production. The associate on the phone made it sound like it wasn't going to happen. Super bummed. I am going to do some emailing and see what I can do but it sounds like the matching fork won't happen. I could always do the Cielo frame with a Waltworks fork, maybe if I convince him to do a tapered steerer tube&#8230;.
> 
> CCSS, can we get a build breakdown for your Krampus? She looks pretty fun! I love Black Cat but I don't think I can swing $2300 base frame price right now! Beautiful work and totally worth the money.


Purchased the Vassago VerHauen about three weeks ago, I would not look further to be honest, unless you want to shoot the lights out and go full custom from someone like coconino. 
The VerHauen us everything and more I expected it to be, light, strong, sick paintjob, short stays and excellent geometry.


----------



## Raab (May 31, 2011)

Lekker rouxtjie


----------



## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

davesauvageau said:


> CCSS, can we get a build breakdown for your Krampus? She looks pretty fun! I love Black Cat but I don't think I can swing $2300 base frame price right now! Beautiful work and totally worth the money.


Sure thing. Here's the Krampus build:

* (L) frame -- obviously does have the oversized HT you're looking for...
* Carver "old style" carbon fork
* King reducer headset
* Rabbit Hole rims built on DT 240s -- set up with blue tarp rim strips and running tubeless
* XTR 952 crankset -- roughly polished by yours truly
* JBC stainless cog
* Dean ti zero setback post
* 90mm WCS stem
* Carver "prybar" 730mm, oversized ti flat bar
* WTB silverado
* ESI chunkies
* Magura Marta SL brakes (I had these laying around and they became the foundation for the blue + green color scheme)

Built up to 25lbs on the nose with pedals. My last two rigid, steel singlespeeds have been an '08 el mariachi (the true temper OX version) and a Black Cat. I love(d) them both. That said, the Krampus is relatively economical and way more fun than it has any right to be...


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

rouxtjie said:


> Purchased the Vassago VerHauen about three weeks ago, I would not look further to be honest, unless you want to shoot the lights out and go full custom from someone like coconino.
> The VerHauen us everything and more I expected it to be, light, strong, sick paintjob, short stays and excellent geometry.


Glad to hear it! What did you build it up with?


----------



## Nakedbabytoes (Jul 24, 2012)

All City Nature Boy. 42/19. 46cm.
Impressed with how light weight yet cushy it rides. This CX season will be fun!


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

CCSS said:


> Sure thing. Here's the Krampus build:
> 
> * (L) frame -- obviously does have the oversized HT you're looking for...
> * Carver "old style" carbon fork
> ...


Very cool, did you get a chance to weigh it?


----------



## 2dopler (Nov 21, 2010)

CCSS said:


> Sure thing. Here's the Krampus build:
> 
> * (L) frame -- obviously does have the oversized HT you're looking for...
> * Carver "old style" carbon fork
> ...


Curious how you like the Carver Prybar. I've been eyeballing that on the Carver site. 
Stiff? Responsive? Let me know your experience


----------



## CCSS (Apr 6, 2004)

2dopler said:


> Curious how you like the Carver Prybar. I've been eyeballing that on the Carver site.
> Stiff? Responsive? Let me know your experience


It's a pretty awesome bang for the buck. I've got more than 500 miles on 'em, and I'd say they ride a lot like the oversized carbon bars I've ridden for years - only wider, more cost effective and more impact resistant. Nothing like the old school, narrow, noodly 25.4 bars.

Highly recommended.


----------



## 2dopler (Nov 21, 2010)

CCSS said:


> It's a pretty awesome bang for the buck. I've got more than 500 miles on 'em, and I'd say they ride a lot like the oversized carbon bars I've ridden for years - only wider, more cost effective and more impact resistant. Nothing like the old school, narrow, noodly 25.4 bars.
> 
> Highly recommended.


Many Thanks! Might have to pick one up


----------



## JudgeMorris (Jun 22, 2005)

rouxtjie said:


> Purchased the Vassago VerHauen about three weeks ago, I would not look further to be honest, unless you want to shoot the lights out and go full custom from someone like coconino.
> The VerHauen us everything and more I expected it to be, light, strong, sick paintjob, short stays and excellent geometry.


That last sentence is The Truth.
I love my VerHauen.


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## tTramp14 (Jun 13, 2012)

I've never had a steel mountain bike but have been really craving a 616 Fabrications 650b Steel SS. They are pretty big in Michigan especially in Grand Rapids where I live. 616Fab.com is the web sight if anyone is interested.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Hmm I guess this one does qualify. I always just think of it as the worlds nicest beater bike


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

My steel SS contribution...









It's actually complete...I just don't have a better more current picture of it.

Well, maybe this one but nothing up close...


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Its been too long since anyone posted in this thread.

This bike isn't going to start its life out in SS mode, so not sure when there will be pictures of the whole thing in here. But here is a sneak preview:


----------



## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

AlexCuse said:


> Its been too long since anyone posted in this thread.
> 
> This bike isn't going to start its life out in SS mode, so not sure when there will be pictures of the whole thing in here. But here is a sneak preview:
> 
> View attachment 873994


hybrid?


----------



## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

AlexCuse said:


> Its been too long since anyone posted in this thread.
> 
> This bike isn't going to start its life out in SS mode, so not sure when there will be pictures of the whole thing in here. But here is a sneak preview:
> 
> View attachment 873994


Those sliders look a bit like the ones on my diSSent...which would be a sick steel frame IMO. Too bad Misfit doesn't do a steel frame.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

The diSSent Fe sounded like a dream bike, wish it hadn't died on the table.

Sliders are paragons. New bike isn't a hybrid. But close  Going to be a cyclocross bike that takes pretty large tires. It'll fit a rock & road with the sliders all the way forward (425mm chainstay), and I bet it will fit at least a 1.9 29er tire if I slide them back a bit. Builder had to use ovalized columbus chainstays (rest of the frame is true temper) and corresponding bb shell to achieve clearance:


----------



## captnpenguin (Dec 2, 2011)

Nubster said:


> My steel SS contribution...
> 
> View attachment 874119
> 
> ...


Nubster, what are your thoughts on the whiskey fork? How's the rid quality?


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Love it. I find that the ride in conjunction with the steel frame, is just as "plush" as my old 100mm suspension fork on my diSSent. It's a great ride. Stiff in handling but soaks up the bumps and makes for a comfortable ride. I kinda wish it wasn't so chunky looking but it's not too bad.


----------



## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

AlexCuse said:


> Sliders are paragons. New bike isn't a hybrid. But close  Going to be a cyclocross bike that takes pretty large tires. It'll fit a rock & road with the sliders all the way forward (425mm chainstay), and I bet it will fit at least a 1.9 29er tire if I slide them back a bit. Builder had to use ovalized columbus chainstays (rest of the frame is true temper) and corresponding bb shell to achieve clearance:


Lugged, steel, canti brakes, & fat tires? Nice.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

phsycle said:


> Lugged, steel, canti brakes, & fat tires? Nice.


Agreed. I'm sure I don't have to say this AlexCuse, but I'd like to see finished pics when the time comes.


----------



## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

AlexCuse said:


> The diSSent Fe sounded like a dream bike, wish it hadn't died on the table.
> 
> Sliders are paragons. New bike isn't a hybrid. But close  Going to be a cyclocross bike that takes pretty large tires. It'll fit a rock & road with the sliders all the way forward (425mm chainstay), and I bet it will fit at least a 1.9 29er tire if I slide them back a bit. Builder had to use ovalized columbus chainstays (rest of the frame is true temper) and corresponding bb shell to achieve clearance:
> 
> View attachment 874196


Nice...flat bar or mountain or road drops?


----------



## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Sorry to disappoint but I'm gonna be using the TRP mini-V brakes. Got hooked on em for singletrack riding with my other cross bike - my advanced weight requires a bit of extra stopping power. Will be using drop bars. I will try to set it up as a singlespeed to get some proper pics in here before I put the derailleurs on if I have time - hoping to do a mixed terrain century in April that I think I will need gears for. I'm sure it will spend some time as an SS eventually regardless. Didn't get the sliders for nothing


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Oof this thread isn't even on the front page anymore. That ain't right.

Not the best picture but I got this yesterday:


----------



## Click Click Boom (Oct 23, 2008)

Steel Singlespeeds.........


----------



## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Came in at 20lb 13oz. Damn smooth and fun bike. Far exceeded my expectations.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

^ that is a damn fine machine. Love the curved fork blades/top tube. And the color /swoon.

I really need to get that orange cross bike set up as a singlespeed at some point so I can get a proper picture in here


----------



## captnpenguin (Dec 2, 2011)

thickfog said:


> Came in at 20lb 13oz. Damn smooth and fun bike. Far exceeded my expectations.


Are those the blunt 35s or duallys or something else making those tires ginormous?


----------



## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Those are Derby 35mm carbon. He is on the board and starting producing wide, carbon wheels.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Hey fog, can I get a headshot on that fork? What's the a-c?


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

dbhammercycle said:


> Hey fog, can I get a headshot on that fork? What's the a-c?


I'll have to look for the spec sheet when I get home.


----------



## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Thanks! Nice ride, green means go and she looks more than willing! That's an awesome headtube decal too btw.


----------



## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

dbhammercycle said:


> Thanks! Nice ride, green means go and she looks more than willing! That's an awesome headtube decal too btw.


425 ac.

Thanks! Yes, it's been incredibly fun.

As soon as it came in (walt even got it done early like a few days before my bday) I had to go to England unexpectedly for work for almost a month. That was a horrible surprise.

I brought my road bike to get around and back and forth to work, but I was not willing to ship this bike. Plus I was hours away from any mt biking.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Oh man I thought those were just massive tires, didn't realize it was a rigid specific geo - I might be in love!

Is that a syntace hiflex seatpost? I just put one of those on my KM and I'm genuinely shocked just how much it smooths out the ride.


----------



## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

AlexCuse said:


> Oh man I thought those were just massive tires, didn't realize it was a rigid specific geo - I might be in love!
> 
> Is that a syntace hiflex seatpost? I just put one of those on my KM and I'm genuinely shocked just how much it smooths out the ride.


Yup p6. That hiflex is amazing. The cost stopped me before, but with this bike I said I'm doing it.


----------



## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Yeah cost stopped me for a long time, but I got a 15% off coupon in an email a few weeks ago and decided to go for it - I think it will give my body at least a few years before I have to start seriously thinking about suspension (or fatbikes  ) so in that sense I guess it is a good investment?

:idea:


----------



## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

buddhak said:


> All I know right now is that a) there will be curves, b) there will be rigidity, and c) there will be a 135mm front hub.
> 
> EDIT: oh, and d) short-ass chainstays


So, as they say, change is the only constant. My Coconino is off getting powder coated now. It ended up being a 120mm travel 650b hardtail....pretty tame. The KM is too close to perfect as a fixed gear to justify replicating. Will post the complete bike when it is ready.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

buddhak said:


> The KM is too close to perfect as a fixed gear to justify replicating.


I don't run mine fixed, but this is why I ended up having a cross bike built instead of a new 29er. Frame looks beautiful - can't wait to see it built up. What dropouts are those?


----------



## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

AlexCuse said:


> I don't run mine fixed, but this is why I ended up having a cross bike built instead of a new 29er. Frame looks beautiful - can't wait to see it built up. What dropouts are those?


Coco-moto! Steve Garro's design.


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## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

buddhak said:


> Coco-moto! Steve Garro's design.


They are dreamy


----------



## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

Getting there...


----------



## bad jack (Aug 24, 2011)

Many sleepless nites, till the boys in the brown truck arrive! Looks great, and I'm sure you'll enjoy the hell out of it! I'm sure it will be worth the wait!


----------



## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

buddhak said:


> Getting there...
> 
> View attachment 911741


Nice!


----------



## bgenesis12 (Jul 11, 2014)

Click Click Boom said:


> Steel Singlespeeds.........


What kind of disc rotors are those?


----------



## Zaskar24 (Jun 7, 2008)

buddhak said:


> Getting there...
> 
> View attachment 911741


Damn that turned out nice. Steve is working on my frame right now. 29r with a 100 mm fork built off the geo of my Quiring with tweaks by Steve. That blue looks so awesome! I cannot wait to see it built up!


----------



## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

I finally got my Coconino 650b together and on the trail today. As a dirt bag cheapskate, I was seriously nervous about jumping into the custom bike realm. I had no doubts about Steve Garro. He was the guy with which I was prepared to enter this expensive gamble. He builds sturdy yet graceful steel frames, with an obvious SS sweet spot. He is an inspiring person to boot. But back to the bike. Back to the bike ride. This frame is athletic, stiff, springy, eager, sturdy...I could go on. After one trail ride, I find myself finally understanding how a steel master craftsman, like Garro, can get the most out of an already exceptional frame material. No regrets. What took me so long.


----------



## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

buddhak - Specs on that frame geo? Awesome looking ride! I'd assume something like a Niner carbon fork would work well, given the length of that fork on there now?


----------



## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

phsycle said:


> buddhak - Specs on that frame geo? Awesome looking ride! I'd assume something like a Niner carbon fork would work well, given the length of that fork on there now?


thanks phsycle!

Steve Garro's words:
650B
120mm travel
73*/69*
40mm BB drop
16.5" CS forward
Coco-motos
44mm HT
seat tube length dependent on stand over

I had Steve design around a fork with a 517mm A-to-C length. I don't know which rigid fork would work best. I would just commit to a rigid specific design...although this frame could work as a B9er rigid. The Coco is such a night and day difference from other steel bikes that I am already scheming on getting back in line for rigid specific fixed gear 29er to replace my Karate Monkey.


----------



## rob1035 (Apr 20, 2007)

So the Coconino rides significantly better than your Monkey? Or are they too different to compare? Either way beautiful bike!


----------



## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

rob1035 said:


> So the Coconino rides significantly better than your Monkey? Or are they too different to compare? Either way beautiful bike!


They are set up very differently, it is true, but there is a world of difference in the way the frames feel and respond to rider input. The Coconino is taught and resonant in a way that the KM is not. The KM is springy with that classic steel feel. The Coco tightens it up significantly without loosing that spring. It has a more substantial feel in the saddle/pedals without feeling heavy and dead. My other points of reference are an 853 Salsa La Raza road bike, which has a similar responsiveness and spring, and a 2008 EWR OWB 26" bike. The EWR, with its compact, multi-tube design, feels dense and rigid, but it lacks that lively feel I expect in steel frames. I don't know if it is the non-butted tubing, the trussed frame design...who knows, but it is a very noticeable difference when compared to my more conventional steel bikes. The Coco makes me realize that a master craftsman can coax serious improvements in the way a material like steel feels over more standard products. I wish I could state it better, but maybe I should just ride the bike more to better crystallize my thoughts.


----------



## Zaskar24 (Jun 7, 2008)

Congratulations buddhak! That is a great looking bike! Steve is such a great guy to work with.

I will post mine up as soon as I get it built.


----------



## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

I made a new SS specific dropout today, may have to roll with it


----------



## rsb201 (Jan 26, 2010)

Built this up over this past spring
Kona Explosif
Manitou Tower 80mm w/lock out
Shimano M615
Shimano Hollowtech crank
RF 32 tooth chainring
20 tooth rear cog
Niner flat bar 710mm
Truvativ stem
RF post

Been a blast to ride. Love the feel of steel


----------



## rockhopper97 (Jul 30, 2014)

AlexCuse said:


> I made a new SS specific dropout today, may have to roll with it


I cut off the gears I wasnt using on mine with a 4 1/2 angle grinder... I also used the top half of my rear mech to tension the chain because mine had a small encounter with the wheel spokes


----------



## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

rsb201 said:


> Built this up over this past spring
> Kona Explosif
> Manitou Tower 80mm w/lock out
> Shimano M615
> ...


Is that a 69er?


----------



## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

buddhak said:


> Is that a 69er?


b9er?

I'm curious too, it's hard to tell from the pic.


----------



## rsb201 (Jan 26, 2010)

No, its a 29er. Running a 2.4 Mountain King on the front and a 2.2 Race King on the rear.


----------



## MMcG (Jul 7, 2003)

My latest Set up - 650b/650b+ On-One Inbred Conversion


----------



## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Current setup!


----------



## jcm (Mar 25, 2014)

Dear lord those are some beautiful bikes. Here is my humble entry 









Edit- I failed to remember my bike has a steel fork but an aluminum frame lol


----------



## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

Got my first taste of some real steel a few weeks back. Boy do I ever love this thing!


----------



## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Finally got this beauty in SS mode:





Don't think I'm gonna be able to keep those tires for too long though unless the wheels stay incredibly true:


----------



## bgenesis12 (Jul 11, 2014)

AlexCuse said:


> Finally got this beauty in SS mode:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sweet ride. What drop bars are those?


----------



## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

bgenesis12 said:


> Sweet ride. What drop bars are those?


Woodchippers. Still seeking sweet spot as far as angle is concerned but like them a lot so far. If I find it may try them with brifters in the spring, though I would miss being able to duck out of the wind on longer rides (drops are really wide, amazing for climbing)


----------



## jbass (Oct 29, 2014)

Some beauts here! 
Nothing fancy, but I'm a total convert now with my new Unit. Considering carbon bars next, but quite thrilled with the ride of this baby as it is!


----------



## AlexCuse (Nov 27, 2011)

Sweet ride. Carbon goes nicely with steel, I have an embarrassing amount of it on my 29er.


----------



## MMcG (Jul 7, 2003)

Evil DOC with 650b wheels and Krampus fork - pretty fun!


----------



## lorsban (Sep 2, 2009)

I was riding my steel 29er SS over the Christmas break and now I'm back on my FS 26er but boy is it squirelly! It floats but I think too much. 

I don't feel "at one" with the bike at all. It feels like a boat almost lol

Steel is just perfect as well as SS. I feel so connected with the bike and road. The only thing I wish my bike has are better brakes (V or disc). Right now I'm on cheap bmx style brakes and unfortunately, that's all I can use. Unless I go fixed that is.


----------



## slowNfat (Mar 30, 2012)

*I love steel SS*

Both of these are great to ride, the Retrotec is super supple and can be ridden all day. The IF is super fast different ride more like a race car. IF is 26" and the Retrotec is 27.5"


----------



## FirstinLastout (Aug 22, 2012)

davesauvageau said:


> Current setup!


What's the largest rear tyre you've managed to squeeze onto your ride?
Considering a black label Vassago but want to run as large a tyre as possible, anyone got any idea?


----------



## J3SSEB (Jun 1, 2009)

My steel Voodoo


----------



## mattbyke (Jan 14, 2015)

I can fit a 29/2.4 chunky monkey ( built from a maxxis ardent 2.4 casing. ) on a pacenti tl28 wheel. 23mm internal width. It's tight on the in bred.


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## wahday (Mar 23, 2012)

2007 Raleigh XXIX. Trax Fatty 3.0 on the rear, Knard on the front. Its VERY tight in the back so I may switch to the Ardent 2.4 I had on there previously. I cannot take myself seriously on this bike! Truth be told, its a little small for me (even though it is a large 19") so I may end up selling it. But its been fun to build up. It has a pair of Jones bars on the front now and I have been commuting on it, mostly on ditch roads.


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## febikes (Jan 28, 2011)

*My 2015 steel single speed race bike...*



It's not a "weight weenie" build but it's pretty darn light at 20.25 pounds as pictured. The training bike in the background is a bit heavier but on the race bike I have things like carbon cranks and ultralight wheels.


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## bad jack (Aug 24, 2011)

*A little love by Garro!*

Here is my steel ss, loving this thing! Much thanks to Steve Garro:thumbsup:


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## earworm (Nov 8, 2014)

2005 Bianchi S.A.S.S. Such a fun bike.


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## idaz (Nov 17, 2007)

bad jack said:


> Here is my steel ss, loving this thing! Much thanks to Steve Garro:thumbsup:


Damn! That bike looks fast standing still. Sweet sled you've got there from a master craftsman.


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## blaklabl (Mar 14, 2011)

*My Verhauen*

I love this bike more than I have any other. I do go back and forth between 1x10 & SS, I just need to nut up and keep it as a SS!!







I've made some changes since this was taken in late summer, new edition decals and a Fox Float fork. I'll have to update this post when I make the change back.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

B


wahday said:


> 2007 Raleigh XXIX. Trax Fatty 3.0 on the rear, Knard on the front. Its VERY tight in the back so I may switch to the Ardent 2.4 I had on there previously. I cannot take myself seriously on this bike! Truth be told, its a little small for me (even though it is a large 19") so I may end up selling it. But its been fun to build up. It has a pair of Jones bars on the front now and I have been commuting on it, mostly on ditch roads.
> View attachment 957190


I have that same frame. What kind of fork is that?


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## MikeAK (Jul 15, 2011)

Just put new tires on for this late spring/summer season and wanted to share. My 2012 Kona Unit. Those are Schwalbe Big Apple 28x2.35's. A lot more clearance than I thought. I absolutely love this frame. I also dropped down from a 90mm stem to a 70mm. Other wise mostly stock. This year I gave it a complete overhaul, cleaning and re-greasing of all bearings. So far so good. I won't change what ain't broken. This falls under a few categories so you're likely to see my pic in other threads.


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## gouacats (Sep 22, 2007)

2014 Kona Unit. I picked it up about a month ago and love it!









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

built this ROS9 up a few months ago, what a blast to ride.


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