# 27.5 or 29er or Mullet for All Mountain Trail EMTB?



## GioRider (Oct 6, 2020)

Hey guys, 
If you had a choice to pick a 27.5", 29" or Mullet emtb which would you pick for a 150 / 160 travel bike (all mountain /trail) bike? Does it depend on rider height? Does the rolling resistance make that much difference with the bigger wheel with an emtb? Is there a clear winner or does it like everything else depend on circumstances? From doing a lot of youtubing it seems like the Mullet style is the way to go for an all mountain / trail bike. Just curious what you all think. I'm about 6ft


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

I prefer to have the same size wheel front and rear, so I only have to carry one tube, and so I can rotate tires front to rear as they wear. The whole mullet thing is just silly imho.


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## GioRider (Oct 6, 2020)

Interesting my front tire is always a bit wider than my rear tire. Not sure what the trend is on for emtb's


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## stevenfallover (Jun 5, 2004)

I have ridden both and prefer the Mullet. Feels more flickable. But I would probably be happy with just 29er in some situation. With Mullet I can feel square edge stuff more at times.


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

_CJ said:


> I prefer to have the same size wheel front and rear, so I only have to carry one tube, and so I can rotate tires front to rear as they wear. The whole mullet thing is just silly imho.
> 
> 
> .


I've never had a mullet but if I had one I never would have thought of the two different size tube thing. I would have been riding around with just a 29er tube most likely 🤷‍♂️

However, I have stretched a 27.5 tube onto a 29er wheel many times (with the assumption that it's just to get home and get the tire to seal again) so I'm not sure it's that big of a deal. I don't know if that would work though if you carry one of those lightweight Tubolito tubes...


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

I don't understand all this mullet craze. I must be getting old. Next we will have Apple CarPlay installed on our bikes.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Horses for courses. From a fit/biomechanics perspective... the smaller rear wheel doesn't help as much with butt buzz as the youtubes would lead you to believe. It's really inner thigh buzz when you're leaning the bike over for corners that is reduced. Not saying that the extra .75" of fore/aft rumpus clearance isn't a thing, but that isn't as impactful or as noticeable as the room to swing the bike around when going down steep technical sections. At 6' you don't have a huge biomechanical reason to ride a mullet over a full 29r. I'm just under 6'3" and I notice almost zero mobility gains of a mullet vs a full 29r. That doesn't mean that I don't like mullet bikes, I do find them fun, it's just not impactful to how I ride the bike.

Now, regarding the way the bike rides... that is a thing and is of course, completely subjective. The smaller rear wheel presents a few characteristics that can be a benefit depending on your riding style or where you ride. Mullet setups lean over into corners differently due to mostly the gyroscopic effect being slightly different in the back then the front. You can feel this sensation in a very pronounced way when you're doing cutties on dry pavement on a mullet bike vs a full 29r. What you'll notice is that it feels for a split second like the back end is going to overtake the front end and that you'll almost have to pull the bike out of it's lean to get it to swap over to the other direction. 

While this can be a unsettling sensation on dry pavement, it tends to be manifest itself differently on dirt where the tires can "scrub" or slip differently. What I have found, is that it can make it a bit easier to initiate a corner and hold a slight yaw (drift) at the corner turn in point which can make snapping the bike into corners easier, particularly at lower speeds. This can help riders that do not have a riding style where they are drifting the bike on the edge of traction. It basically lowers that speed/energy barrier of entry of getting the bike just the right amount of upset so that it doesn't feel locked in or tram lined through a corner. There is still a slight bit of needing to lift the bike out of corners to get it to stop turning, but once your body adjusts to the front/rear weight balance on corner exit, this mostly goes away. 

On a high level, this is one reason I believe that taller people don't necessarily gravitate to or benefit as much from a mullet setup. At 6 - 6'2" and above, the rider has enough leverage to snap the back end of the bike into the corner using your hips and heals, so it's easier to snap the bike into it's apex in general. That being said, with ebikes comes an added layer of stability due to the added weight, particularly in the lowest center of the bike. The weight of an ebike, can make it hard to snap the same way as a trail bike and the mullet setup can be beneficial to even taller riders as the scrub radius and wheel speed delta between the two ends is balanced out a bit by the added weight of the electric drivetrain.

One other area of note in a mullet vs a full 29r, is the fact that the bike has a different bottom bracket drop front to rear. Generally, ebikes are harder to go over the bars on and also harder to manual with. A mullet setup, still has that hard to go over the bars feeling that an ebike, or 29r has, but it is noticeably easier to loft the front wheel using bunny hop or manual mechanics. This is something that also can be beneficial depending on your riding style or weaknesses.

And one last notable characteristic to a mullet setup from my experience, is that the bike doesn't seem to get stood up as bad when you grab the brakes mid corner. This is not something that most reviewers or advanced riders are going to note as one of the big, if not biggest, differences between an intermediate or advanced rider is mid corner speed and getting off the brakes through corners. This is where mullets can be a bit helpful for beginner riders as dragging the brakes through corners still stands the bike up, but it's sorta evened out by the way the bike wants to lean over in corners through the scrub radius/gyroscopic deltas between front/rear. 

These are obviously subjective things and it depends on your riding style and terrain. For me, I adapt to the bike I am riding quickly and neither bike is an advantage or dis-advantage. The same tropes are true for ebikes as are for trail bikes. The full 29r setup provides a bit more ultimate grip at the expense of quick mid corner adjustment maneuverability. The full 29rs provide a bit better momentum and roll over for chunky/ledgey terrain. The mullets are easier to jump, drift and mess around on.

Horses for courses. In the end, all of these things are very noticeable if you have the chance to swap back and forth between the bike styles on an immediate basis. That being said, after about 2 rides, I completely adjust to the bike and my riding is pretty much the same as it was before on the "other" wheelsize that I was riding previously. I have two bikes in my stable (of 3) that can go back and forth between full 29 and mullet. I mostly ride them in full 29 setups.


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

I had a mullet YT decoy, now a 29 Orbea.
Aside from the occasional tire buzzing of my butt when behind the saddle on the steepest descents, the difference on the ebike is nearly imperceptible to me


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Battery said:


> I don't understand all this mullet craze. I must be getting old. Next we will have Apple CarPlay installed on our bikes.


We aren't far from it. I mean, bikes have batteries now... 🤷‍♂️


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## mlloyd007 (Dec 7, 2009)

minimusprime said:


> Horses for courses. From a fit/biomechanics perspective... the smaller rear wheel doesn't help as much with butt buzz as the youtubes would lead you to believe. It's really inner thigh buzz when you're leaning the bike over for corners that is reduced. Not saying that the extra .75" of fore/aft rumpus clearance isn't a thing, but that isn't as impactful or as noticeable as the room to swing the bike around when going down steep technical sections. At 6' you don't have a huge biomechanical reason to ride a mullet over a full 29r. I'm just under 6'3" and I notice almost zero mobility gains of a mullet vs a full 29r. That doesn't mean that I don't like mullet bikes, I do find them fun, it's just not impactful to how I ride the bike.
> 
> Now, regarding the way the bike rides... that is a thing and is of course, completely subjective. The smaller rear wheel presents a few characteristics that can be a benefit depending on your riding style or where you ride. Mullet setups lean over into corners differently due to mostly the gyroscopic effect being slightly different in the back then the front. You can feel this sensation in a very pronounced way when you're doing cutties on dry pavement on a mullet bike vs a full 29r. What you'll notice is that it feels for a split second like the back end is going to overtake the front end and that you'll almost have to pull the bike out of it's lean to get it to swap over to the other direction.
> 
> ...


Super astute analysis- the one thing I'll add about the mullet ebike is that any ebike feels a bit like a pig compared to a similar size/geo analog bike simply due to the weight, but the smaller rear wheel on the mullet ebike can mitigate some of the sluggish handling by making the rear easier to throw around. The slightly less power efficient rear wheel is a nonissue on an ebike.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Found an article that may help.





Advantages of a Wide Rear Tire on a Motorcycle







itstillruns.com


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

noapathy said:


> Found an article that may help.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pretty solid troll post tbh, impossible to be mad at. Honestly, if you're gonna look down your nose at ebikers, this is the way to do it. I gotta ask, did you read the article you posted to make sure that it had the right amount of irony or did you just quickly grab a link and luck out that it was the perfect satire for comparing ebikes to boomer motorcycles and boomer motorcycle articles?

Seriously, I laughed as I turned the scroll wheel realizing you were trolling. Well done.



mlloyd007 said:


> The slightly less power efficient rear wheel is a nonissue on an ebike.


On a serious note, this is 100% true. When I go back and forth from a full 29 to mullet setup the momentum and spin down is one of the biggest annoyances to me and is generally what pulls me back to 29rs. The bike just feels like it's on molasses every time you stop pedaling and go to coast through a section. Not something I really notice all that much on sustained climbs like fire roads or windy single track, but on technical climbing or flat-ish meandering single track, it's like there is a brake dragging. It's this that really stops me from going full mullet because I end up doing a lot of transfer pedaling and mileage, even on my enduro bike. On an ebike however, that's totally moot and you really get most of the advantages without what I feel is the biggest disadvantage. 

Now that I think about it, it would be laborious, but really cool to get some power meter pedals and try to quantify this in terms of efficiency and power output by the rider. Nearly impossible to control all of the variables that contribute to this, but in certain terrain/areas like phoenix or sedona, I could see this as enough of a driver to add up to a handful of percentage of work for either the rider or the electronic drivetrain.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

minimusprime said:


> Pretty solid troll post tbh, impossible to be mad at. Honestly, if you're gonna look down your nose at ebikers, this is the way to do it. I gotta ask, did you read the article you posted to make sure that it had the right amount of irony or did you just quickly grab a link and luck out that it was the perfect satire for comparing ebikes to boomer motorcycles and boomer motorcycle articles?
> 
> Seriously, I laughed as I turned the scroll wheel realizing you were trolling. Well done.


Thanks. I skimmed it and was already a fan of itstillruns as I've found some good repair info there in the past.

In reality, I've actually wondered just how true it is for an e-bike given they do have a motor and the main reason we so often go for a smaller wheel out back is efficiency. With that largely out of the equation then it stands to reason the rear wheel/tire _should _be larger given it takes the lion's share of abuse and is the source of acceleration. I'm pretty sure there's a reason they do it this way on gas motorcycles, so why not extend that knowledge to the electric ones?


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

noapathy said:


> Thanks. I skimmed it and was already a fan of itstillruns as I've found some good repair info there in the past.
> 
> In reality, I've actually wondered just how true it is for an e-bike given they do have a motor and the main reason we so often go for a smaller wheel out back is efficiency. With that largely out of the equation then it stands to reason the rear wheel/tire _should _be larger given it takes the lion's share of abuse and is the source of acceleration. I'm pretty sure there's a reason they do it this way on gas motorcycles, *so why not extend that knowledge to the electric ones*?


Because ebikes have less than 1hp and are only 50 pounds vs the 30-60 hp and 250 pounds of your average dirtbike. The reason the rear tire is bigger on a dirtbike is because of the amount of power/weight/abuse it has to deal with. The power and weight of an ebike is virtually identical to an analog MTB, so that's going to be the wheel/tire combo that's most appropriate for it.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

noapathy said:


> I'm pretty sure there's a reason they do it this way on gas motorcycles, so why not extend that knowledge to the electric ones?


I want to have a beer with you lol. For what it's worth, I do run a 27.5 x 2.6 rear tire when I mullet any of my bikes. I did used to have a hard tail (santa cruz chameleon) that I used a 27.5 x 2.8 rear and a 29 x 2.6 front. That setup was excellent, and it made me realize that we sorta missed the boat when we were throwing mid fat (2.8) tires to the curb. Generally, I do not like 2.6 and larger tires due to how the casing feels, but when combined with the phenomena that I describe above on the front/rear scrub radius and gyroscopic effect, the sidewall support isn't something you notice as much.



_CJ said:


> The power and weight of an ebike is virtually identical to an analog MTB, so that's going to be the wheel/tire combo that's most appropriate for it.


While I'd love to agree with you, that's only true for the top 1% of mountain bikers. Not many people are putting out 1,000 watts of power at all, much less how often it can/does happen on an ebike on a macro (qty of times in a whole ride) and a micro (applying power through undulations due to motor over-run or pedaling). My ebike certainly has traction issues that I do not have on the same climbs that my mountain bike has.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

minimusprime said:


> I want to have a beer with you lol. For what it's worth, I do run a 27.5 x 2.6 rear tire when I mullet any of my bikes. I did used to have a hard tail (santa cruz chameleon) that I used a 27.5 x 2.8 rear and a 29 x 2.6 front. That setup was excellent, and it made me realize that we sorta missed the boat when we were throwing mid fat (2.8) tires to the curb. Generally, I do not like 2.6 and larger tires due to how the casing feels, but when combined with the phenomena that I describe above on the front/rear scrub radius and gyroscopic effect, the sidewall support isn't something you notice as much.
> 
> 
> 
> While I'd love to agree with you, that's only true for the top 1% of mountain bikers. Not many people are putting out 1,000 watts of power at all, much less how often it can/does happen on an ebike on a macro (qty of times in a whole ride) and a micro (applying power through undulations due to motor over-run or pedaling). My ebike certainly has traction issues that I do not have on the same climbs that my mountain bike has.


Virtually all class 1 eMTB's sold today are 250w, and even the most powerful sold only makes 560w peak. But even at a _massive_ 1000 watts  , that's only 1.34 horsepower. Again, apples and oranges compared to a motorcycle. As for power made over the course of a ride, I did ~30 miles yesterday on my ebike, and the average power according to Strava was 254 watts, aka 1/3 hp, and well within the capability of many analog riders.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

_CJ said:


> Virtually all class 1 eMTB's sold today are 250w, and even the most powerful sold only makes 560w peak. But even at a _massive_ 1000 watts  , that's only 1.34 horsepower. Again, apples and oranges compared to a motorcycle. As for power made over the course of a ride, I did ~30 miles yesterday on my ebike, and the average power according to Strava was 254 watts, aka 1/3 hp, and well within the capability of many analog riders.


I have an FTP of 320 and and can put out sprint efforts of around 1,200 at max for very brief periods. On my ebike, I can put out about 1,500 watts and I can do that pretty much whenever I want. Without my ebike, I can manage 1,000 - 1,200 watt efforts, but only so many times on my rides (a handful at best). While that's nowhere near as huge of a delta as comparing a mtb to a motorcycle, it is a significant difference in terms of equipment requirements and climbing abilities when you compare an ebike vs a mtb. Enough so, where I am choosing the components and tire selection accordingly on an ebike. 

Nominal/average power is not the same as burst/peak. There are very few riders on this forum, even those of us that have FTPs that are over 250, that can output that power over a 1.5 hour plus time period.


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## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

At 5'6" I got butt buzz on steep rolls with my Ripmo. So I decided if I get an ebike, it will be mullet. Got Turbo Levo. So far so good. Probably none issue for taller people.

I did noticed though when I rented a Santa Cruz V10 mullet dh bike that the wheelbase was huge for my height. Bigger than anything I've ridden. But the bike handled very well, like a smaller bike. I attribute that to mullet wheels but who knows.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Just got a longer travel (170/160) ebike and it's a mullet. So far I'm enjoying it, but it's hard for me to say if I'd prefer it over an equivalent 29er build. I've never had a longer travel bike so it's hard for me to say. 

I like the mullet in concept anyhow and having the seat out of the way on really steep descents doesn't hurt my feelings a bit. 

A 27.5" tube fits in a 29er wheel without a ton of issues so not worried about that.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

minimusprime said:


> I have an FTP of 320 and and can put out sprint efforts of around 1,200 at max for very brief periods. On my ebike, I can put out about 1,500 watts and I can do that pretty much whenever I want. Without my ebike, I can manage 1,000 - 1,200 watt efforts, but only so many times on my rides (a handful at best). While that's nowhere near as huge of a delta as comparing a mtb to a motorcycle, it is a significant difference in terms of equipment requirements and climbing abilities when you compare an ebike vs a mtb. Enough so, where I am choosing the components and tire selection accordingly on an ebike.
> 
> Nominal/average power is not the same as burst/peak. There are very few riders on this forum, even those of us that have FTPs that are over 250, that can output that power over a 1.5 hour plus time period.


Ya know, I've never bothered to do the calculation, but I've often wondered about the "braking horsepower" a rider can generate going downhill and applying the brakes to the limit of lockup. How much "power" is that, and how does it compare to power generated while climbing, both on analog and ebike. I suspect that the forces applied to the tires while braking are far greater than any of the quibbling that takes place about the power of an analog rider verses E. Just looking at the trail damage that occurs in braking areas vs. climbing sections of trail is a pretty good indicator, and I don't notice trails where ebikes are used suddenly experiencing greater wear on the climbs.

.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Regardless of the specific numbers, I still feel like it bears re-thinking the "always narrower rear tire". I have no idea how many watts I put out (nor do I care as long as I make it up the hill), but I know it'd be more with a motor. Just food for thought. Y'all have fun. Time to see what ole Tom Cruise can do in a plane these days.


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## mlloyd007 (Dec 7, 2009)

_CJ said:


> Ya know, I've never bothered to do the calculation, but I've often wondered about the "braking horsepower" a rider can generate going downhill and applying the brakes to the limit of lockup. How much "power" is that, and how does it compare to power generated while climbing, both on analog and ebike. I suspect that the forces applied to the tires while braking are far greater than any of the quibbling that takes place about the power of an analog rider verses E. Just looking at the trail damage that occurs in braking areas vs. climbing sections of trail is a pretty good indicator, and I don't notice trails where ebikes are used suddenly experiencing greater wear on the climbs.
> 
> .


Braking HP is multiples of accelerating HP for basically every land vehicle, including Formula 1 cars. F1 cars acclerate at 2g and declerate at 5g; the difference is significantly larger for a mtb.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

mlloyd007 said:


> Braking HP is multiples of accelerating HP for basically every land vehicle, including Formula 1 cars. F1 cars acclerate at 2g and declerate at 5g; the difference is significantly larger for a mtb.


So I take it you've never broken traction on a steep climb then? It's not all about the HP.


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

noapathy said:


> So I take it you've never broken traction on a steep climb then? It's not all about the HP.


I think he was just generally agreeing with _CJ about braking "HP" being higher. All this math is above my pay grade though. 

I think all of these power comparisons are pretty irrelevant. _CJ has the right of it in my opinion as there's very little real difference between "analog" and electric bikes. One rider is generating a higher average power for a human but it's still only a tiny spec of power compared to anything with a throttle.

From a builder perspective, maintaining an entire climbing trail is easy compared to maintaining even one steep section leading into a DH berm - even one where there's a ton of ebikes. Brake before the turn FFS! Most of those 250+ STFU (or whatever that acronym was) riders are skinny little XC guys who only smooth out the climbs for the rest of us, and if you want to talk averages, they're also usually the ones creeping down the backside as safely as possible. The super aggressive expert downhiller who's also a bada$$ endurance machine is a rare bird.

TLDR; All this techo babble about the relative performance of different tire sizes really only applies to a select few. It's mostly all in your head. Go ride yer damn bike in whatever configuration makes you happy.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

I'll almost always go 29er. I do not like mullets or 27.5 BUT when I had a 27.5 with 3.0 tires, that was decent...good grip and better rollover than regular 27.5...also more fun. I'm older now and ride less aggressively but I have preferred 29ers and the ride of 29ers since about 2008. I also prefer fatties with 27.5 (4.6+ tires on snow) wheels over 26" wheels, by far. It is the ride feel.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Scott2MTB said:


> All this math is above my pay grade though.


A simple way to estimate braking power is to time acceleration to a given speed with a vehicle that has a known engine/motor power rating, then to time deceleration of the same vehicle from the same speed. If the decel takes 1/2 the time, then you can multiply the power rating of the motor by 2x for an estimate of braking power.

I might actually give this a shot with my ebike. Accelerate 0-20mph in "boost" mode with as little pedal effort as possible, then compare that to braking time from 20-0.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I don't have an e-bike (yet), but I tested my SJEVO as a Mullet and I loved the handling, but the climbing not so much.

For a bike I have to stick to full 29er but I intend to have a mid-power e-bike next year in a Mullet with a very burly rear tire (and the motor of course) to assist with the climbing issues I was experiencing.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

_CJ said:


> Virtually all class 1 eMTB's sold today are 250w, and even the most powerful sold only makes 560w peak. But even at a _massive_ 1000 watts  , that's only 1.34 horsepower. Again, apples and oranges compared to a motorcycle. As for power made over the course of a ride, I did ~30 miles yesterday on my ebike, and the average power according to Strava was 254 watts, aka 1/3 hp, and well within the capability of many analog riders.
> 
> 
> .



Full power E-bikes weigh about 55#s vs. 250#s for a typical trail dirt bike, e-bikes have very fast rolling and lightweight tires (compared to dirt bikes) with very low rolling resistance. Furthermore, e-bikes are geared low to top out at about 28 mph and have the instant torque or an electric motor.

Power and speed advantages of dirt bikes over about 20 mph are irrelevant, since neither dirt bikes nor e-bikes are traveling over those speeds for any appreciable amount of time on singletrack.

For all of these reasons a full power e-bike feels and behaves very similar to about an 8-15 hp trail dirt bike ime and I guarantee I could go a very similar speed as a dirt bike on a tight trail, while on an e-bike on turbo as I'm not that far off on a bike, it's just the hills and open spots they get me (we have a shared use directional MX & MTB trail here in Austin and I have chased the MX bikes on this trail quite effectively, while on my bike).

Full powered e-bikes with a turbo mode are simply excessive power for bi-directional multiuse trails because they allow even novices to essentially travel 'dirt bike' speeds.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Suns_PSD said:


> Full power E-bikes weigh about 55#s vs. 250#s for a typical trail bike, e-bikes have very fast rolling and lightweight tires (compared to dirt bikes) with very low rolling resistance. Furthermore, e-bikes are geared low to top out at about 28 mph and have the instant torque or an electric motor.
> 
> Power and speed advantages of dirt bikes over about 20 mph are irrelevant, since neither dirt bikes nor e-bikes are traveling over those speeds for any appreciable amount of time on singletrack.
> 
> ...


Funny, I used to ride motorcycles on single track too....one of them was actually a 15hp dirt bike. Apples and oranges man. My class 1 eMTB is 99% mountain bike in the way it "feels and behaves". The speed can be close to a moto, but so is analog on those same trails. That old 250# dirt bike was just an entirely different animal, and to suggest they're even remotely comparable is patently ridiculous.


.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

I'm looking at mullet. 

Why? 29er front rolls over stuff better. But 29er rear grinds your arse on steep. 

I want rolling over stuff and less arse grind..... so mullet will be my next bike.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

@_CJ you're the one that took this deep into the moto comparison realm. You've gotten into some threads fighting this moto/ebike comparison lately, many times baited by other people. This one got taken into the deep end of power output by you on the rear tire thing in an almost pre-emptive "ebikes don't ruin trails any more then regular bikes do defense". I get why that trope is over played, not proven and typically a red herring into the discussion and in this case, it is again, but it's a red herring to a completely unrelated discussion. In many cases I agree with your defense, even if you tend to be a bit of a zealot in your debating of this topic. I digress...

The truth is that the comparison to moto's is relevant and interesting. Not because of the power of an emtb is so vastly different then a regular mtb... but because the emtb provides just enough power where the emtb is in many cases, traction limited where an mtb is typically power limited. This is something that the emtb's share with moto's in that there is typically enough power to enter into situations where the center of gravity will not support power output or additional climbing proficiency past a certain point and you have enough power to break traction if it is not managed properly.

To this end, things that we started to learn in motos about contact patches start applying to emtbs. It becomes a logical side discussion of is the most optimum wheel setup for an ebike a mixed wheel, 29f/27.5 rear. And to that end, is the best setup, now a wider rear tire then what we have in front with potentially a different sidewall construction and/or tire insert to allow lower pressures in back then we have in front... again, similar to what you do for motos in certain terrain/conditions.

This discussion isn't anything about trail wear and tear, braking forces vs accelerating forces and all that. Of course you can generate more force braking then accelerating, that is true for pretty much every vehicle on earth save maybe a rocket right up until the millisecond that it crashes into something. The discussion here is, is a mullet setup a good one on an emtb? And related to that, is an emtb different enough to a regular mtb where the answer to the wheelsize question is slightly different with an emtb then a mtb. 

And to that, my anecdotal experience to those questions is that yes, it could be a better setup for some/many. Also, yes, it could be a good setup for an emtb in particular where the cons are less impactful or mitigated completely and the benefits could actually accentuate the characteristics of an emtb.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

minimusprime said:


> @_CJ you're the one that took this deep into the moto comparison realm. You've gotten into some threads fighting this moto/ebike comparison lately, many times baited by other people. This one got taken into the deep end of power output by you on the rear tire thing in an almost pre-emptive "ebikes don't ruin trails any more then regular bikes do defense". I get why that trope is over played, not proven and typically a red herring into the discussion and in this case, it is again, but it's a red herring to a completely unrelated discussion. In many cases I agree with your defense, even if you tend to be a bit of a zealot in your debating of this topic. I digress...
> 
> The truth is that the comparison to moto's is relevant and interesting. Not because of the power of an emtb is so vastly different then a regular mtb... but because the emtb provides just enough power where the emtb is in many cases, traction limited where an mtb is typically power limited. This is something that the emtb's share with moto's in that there is typically enough power to enter into situations where the center of gravity will not support power output or additional climbing proficiency past a certain point and you have enough power to break traction if it is not managed properly.
> 
> ...


I disagree.


.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

_CJ said:


> I disagree.


Ok boomer


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

_CJ said:


> Funny, I used to ride motorcycles on single track too....one of them was actually a 15hp dirt bike. Apples and oranges man. My class 1 eMTB is 99% mountain bike in the way it "feels and behaves". The speed can be close to a moto, but so is analog on those same trails. That old 250# dirt bike was just an entirely different animal, and to suggest they're even remotely comparable is patently ridiculous.
> 
> 
> .


For the record I have about 20 years of motorcycle racing experience, winning races, a lap record, roadracing, MX & trails.

At Emma Long motorcycle park (utube it) I could absolutely keep up with the average ridden MX bike of any hp, if I was on a full power e-bike in turbo as I already keep them behind me for about 5 minutes on a bike, pretty much until I hit a steep climb or the rare faster section.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Simple, no question- mullet!


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Mullet because no one will make a full 27.5.


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## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

Mullets may corner better? I have the Intense Tazer MX and its a mullet. I love the bike but the one drawback to mixed wheel sizes is a low bottom bracket and pedal strikes. I have a 2.5 rear tire and stock is 2.8. Back during covid I needed a rear tire and bought what was available. Pedal strikes are often until you learn when and where they occur,the smaller tire makes this worse. This issue makes trail riding a little difficult on trails with flat or off camber turns,but not impossible. Downhill the bike is bad ass! 
Add Cush Core to your wheel set and flats are almost eliminated. However,you can use a 27.5 tube on either wheel and get out of the woods. You dont have to carry both 29 and 27.5 tubes with you.


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