# Clipless shoes with wider toe box?



## k1creeker (Jul 30, 2005)

Hi all,
My several generations old Shimano AM9 shoes are nearing end of life and I'm trying (in vain) to find another pair of clipless shoes built on a last for those of us with 10 toes. The latest iteration of the AM9 moved to the ballerina last of the AM7, and is no longer an option for my duck style feet (narrow heel, regular midfoot, low volume but wide toe area)

I've tried the Shimano AM7 and Ride Concepts Tallac with no success. Other shoes on my list that "look like" they may have a wider toe box include:

Endura MT500
Leatt DBX 4.0
Specialized Rime 2.0
Crank Brothers Mallet
Bontrager Rally

I welcome any experience users have had with these or other shoe brands. I have no real MTB shops in my area so I'm forced to mail order. The return process is becoming a PITA.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Shimano ME7 comes in a wide size (but I wouldn’t call it super wide).









Shimano ME702 Wide Cycling Shoe - Men's - Bike


Buy the Shimano ME702 Wide Cycling Shoe - Men's online or shop all Bike from Backcountry.com.




www.backcountry.com





Ride Concepts Transition Clip shoes have a boxy toebox. Their website says that they’re high volume fit versus the low volume fit of the Tallac.









Men's Transition Clip


An enduro/gravity clip shoe with mid-height protection to meet the demands of rough conditions Change is inevitable. Transition was designed to change the perception of how an enduro/gravity clip shoe should connect with the pedal. A wide and unobtrusive cleat box provides instant engagement and...




rideconcepts.com


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## Mountainfrog (Mar 7, 2006)

I've been wearing Lake MX 170 for a while now, standard width and these fit my size 44 EEE feet. They offer Wide in the newer styles as well. A little heavy but one of the sturdiest shoes I've worn in twenty years.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

I'm in the same boat with duck feet. Have a very low volume foot that is 12.5". So I usually have to go up to a 13" shoe, and it's always a problem. I usually have to get a too narrow shoe, just to grip my foot, but then toes get scrunched up.

I've been checking out Fizik Gravita Tensor as they offer 12.5, but from what I can gather from minimal reviews is - they have a low volume fit with a wider toe box. Haven't tried them on yet to confirm.

The AM9 and ME7 were the other ones I was looking at too.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

Lake Wide are pretty good, as are Sidi Mega. I've got a bunch of these shoe stretcher things (link below) because they seem to work for me, much better on Lake than Shimano, the leather on Lake is stretchier than the plastic on Shimano. I've got 2 pairs of regular width Lakes that are working fine, and some regular width Sworks road shoes that I can get good enough stretch with these. Worth a try imo.
2PCS Shoe Stretcher Boot Men Mens Women Size Shaper Adjustable Expander Widener | eBay


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

I've found many Five Ten shoes have wider toe boxes.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Good Lord if someone can figure out human beings have different shaped feet...

Same problem. It's not a wide foot, it's just that my toes don't taper back from the big toe to the pinky toe at a sharp angle like every shoe maker in the world thinks all feet are shaped like.

I have cheap, lace up, fabric shoes from 25 years ago that are still in use because they're bigger than I really need and the fabric is more forgiving than other materials, so my toes aren't in agony.

Every pair of shoes I've ever owned has imprints of my two smallest toes trying to escape.










See that sharp taper from the tip down to my pinky toe bulge? My toes don't slope that steeply.

Finding shoes for folks like us... torture.


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## jchan417 (Apr 19, 2018)

I have the same problem. I've had success with Sidi's in their mega last, and the five ten hellcat. Tried Lake in their wide last for boots and they didn't work for me, but their non-winter boots were okay.


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## Briareos (Aug 2, 2011)

another vote for Lake...


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

I can’t help with recommendations. But I can offer that the Rime is unlikely to meet your needs.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

I paid too much money for some Sidi Mega (their wide) shoes not long ago. They are great shoes and a nice wide box, but they are definitely on the XC/ gravel side of the spectrum. Very stiff sole and probably not the best if you are looking for a shoe which is great for pedaling and walking.

I also have an older pair of wider Lakes with the boa. Great shoes *except the boa*. The Boa thing is utter crap. I replaced bits once and not it's just falling apart while the rest of the shoe is in solid shape. I'm planning on taking them to the shoe doctor to replace the boas with some velcro or even maybe laces.


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## G-Choro (Jul 30, 2010)

Lake MX 241 Endurance are awesome! I have wide, high-volume feet. They are like blocks, and nothing in the past really fit well. The Lakes are fantastic.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Another vote for Sidi Mega


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## ricekrispyota (Dec 12, 2019)

I bought the Leatt DBX 4.0. I like the width of the toe box and the shoe is very comfortable to me.The only thing I'm not to keen on is the laces. Once they get dirty, they are very hard to manipulate, making it a bit tough to get in and out of unless you prepare ahead of time.
I came from Afton Vectal (1st year) and those felt super narrow to me.


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## mtballday (Aug 19, 2007)

Off the shelf, I've had pretty good luck with Sidi Mega for summer and Lake for winter shoes. Someone mentioned problems with breaking the Boas on the Lake shoes -- I had that problem too. 

The best solution for me has been a couple pair of shoes I have had made by Don Lamson over the years. He sends you a foam kit, you take some impressions and some measurements, and then he makes them custom (lamsoncycling.com). He uses BOA, but it is a better system than my Lake shoes have. Of course, the downside is that they are expensive.


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

Lake MX168 Enduro are working well for me in their wide version.


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## gastonbx (Oct 15, 2009)

Have you tried/checked Giro shoes? Terraduro are not as "slim" as Shimano


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## mnpikey (Sep 18, 2017)

MX 238


Description The Lake MX238-X Wide MTB Shoe takes the 237 a step further for hardcore Adventure racers and rugged mountain bikers with more protection while keeping the legendary fit, especially for the rider with wide feet. Aramid protection and Helcor abrasion resistant leather panels are...




www.lakecycling.com


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## Hexsense (Aug 10, 2021)

Bont Vaypor G.
There are 3 options with wide toe box
1) Wide fit
2) Asian fit (same toe box width as Wide, but narrow heel).
3) Double wide fit
https://shop.bontcycling.com/collec...por-g-li2-reflex-ghost?variant=39646797234309
If it's not wide enough, you can also heat mold and make it wider. I did that on my Vaypor S (road version but identical fit to Vaypor G).

Also consider Bont Riot MTB+ in wide if Vaypor G cost too much.
https://shop.bontcycling.com/collections/dirt/products/riot-mtb-plus-bb?variant=34651726610565


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

Hexsense said:


> 2) Asian fit


What? All Feet Matter! (j/k!)


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

I bought some Bont Riots once in the size I needed, but when they showed up in the mail, they were painfully tight in the toes. I would have had to go to a bigger size like I always do, but then the tips of the shoes would curl up if I walked in them. I just gave up on Bont, which was sad, because all the reading I did told me that would be my best bet.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Ive always found it a bit comical how pointy some of the racing/road shoes are, like do people really have pointy elf-feet?


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## Hexsense (Aug 10, 2021)

KobayashiMaru said:


> I bought some Bont Riots once in the size I needed, but when they showed up in the mail, they were painfully tight in the toes. I would have had to go to a bigger size like I always do, but then the tips of the shoes would curl up if I walked in them. I just gave up on Bont, which was sad, because all the reading I did told me that would be my best bet.


was it wide fit or regular?


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Hexsense said:


> was it wide fit or regular?


I'm pretty sure I would have bought the regular size, and not the ones that would have given me the most room for my toes, because I am a big, dumb animal. I should raise my hand so someone can come over and hit me in the head with a tack hammer.


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## mpowers (Mar 9, 2015)

I’m pretty happy with the CB Mallet Boa. Going on nearly two years on a pair. 

In a xc shimano my toe/fore foot is slightly cramped, bought wide shimano and those ended up just too wide. Fizik xc was the same. Those options I tried for years to get along with. 

These fit and I use them as an xc shoe even tho they clearly are not marketed for such. But very comfy in my experience. A little warm in the summer.


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## PJJ205 (Aug 9, 2018)

Nat said:


> Ride Concepts Transition Clip shoes have a boxy toebox. Their website says that they’re high volume fit versus the low volume fit of the Tallac.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


+1 for these. I'm currently using these and they definitely have the widest toe box out of all of the shoes I've tried so far.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Does anyone know of a shoe you can buy, wear and use, and return if it doesn't work out? I know Trek has a 30 day policy, but are there any others?

I was in a shop looking for shoes that fit (I'm always looking) and the owner showed me som Fizik shoes that looked to be just what I needed. Mostly fabric to conform to my toes, lace up to tailor fit, decent tread for off the bike hiking around, affordable... He didn't have a size massive enough for me in stock (46), but really talked up the company's 30 day return policy and told me to buy the size I needed online. He told me you could try them out and get your money back, but checking on the company's return policy I found this:

"Fundamental condition for exercising the right to return is that *the returned products must be in their original condition*, complete with their packaging, labels, manuals and everything else that was included in the package. Products must not have been used, worn, washed or damaged and, in case of shoes, must not show any signs of cleat installation."

Dude obviously had no clue about the return policy, but besides that, how can anyone get a feel for a clipless shoe without at least installing cleats and getting on and off the bike? I can get them not taking back well used and dirty shoes, but what is a consumer supposed to do if they can't even put their cleats on the shoe and get on and off the bike on the driveway and maybe pedalling around on the street for a half hour?

That would be akin to buying normal shoes without even trying them on and getting stuck with them if your foot wouldn't even fit inside them.

Guess who won't be buying Fizik shoes, and well, any shoe really. I don't want to get stuck with something that doesn't fit or work for my application.

It's one reason why flat pedals and New Balance sneakers in 4E width seem like a better idea than anything else, but I've got too many XT and XTR pedals on too many bikes to go changing things up without getting really put out.

First world problems, I know... but such a struggle.


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## k1creeker (Jul 30, 2005)

Thanks to all for your suggestions. I'm surprised to learn I'm not alone in this fit situation. 

While not cylcing specific, for my duck feet brethren, I can heartily recommend Topo Athletic and Altra brands for trail running, light hiking use.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

KobayashiMaru said:


> Does anyone know of a shoe you can buy, wear and use, and return if it doesn't work out? I know Trek has a 30 day policy, but are there any others?


It depends more on the vendor than the manufacturer. REI for example is really good about letting customers return gear that's been used. I've been a member for 39 years now. Universal Cycles on the other hand wouldn't let me return a saddle because I sat on it. That's the last item I ever bought from them.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

k1creeker said:


> I can heartily recommend Topo Athletic and Altra brands


I went to a physical therapist over some foot/ankle issues (imagine that) and within 20 seconds of looking at my bare feet he gave me a coupon for 15 dollars off Altra shoes. Haven't bought any yet because I rarely find myself not wearing steel toes, but I plan to if I ever walk around without wearing boots.



PJJ205 said:


> I'm currently using these and they definitely have the widest toe box out of all of the shoes I've tried so far.


That's good info from you and Nat. I checked their website out, hoping this brand might work, as they hadn't turned up in any of my searching for solutions. I got a bit excited reading their story, thinking to myself "These guys get it. They'll have a reputation they want to protect and returns will be a thing with these guys." So I checked out their return policy. This is what I found:

"We make gear that we want to wear ourselves and hope you will as well. That’s why, as a premium brand dedicated to providing high value technical product and after-sale customer support, we trust you will be satisfied with your purchase. If for any reason you are not entirely stoked, our return and warranty options will get you taken care of and back out on the trail!"

Might I have found the Holy Grail of cycling shoe companies for duck footed riders? It went on to say this:

"Ride Concepts will honor returns for up to 30 days from the time the product is received by the customer. Refunds do not include shipping and handling fees. *Products must remain in mint condition and in its original packaging or the return request may be denied.*"

Ok... I get it. They're a company and they can't make money selling stuff, taking it back, and not being able to sell it to anyone else because nobody wants used shoes. I get it. Just don't tell me "If for any reason you aren't entirely stoked..." and then go on to essentially say "Baring defects in workmanship, we only take stuff back if it hasn't been used at all, so if it didn't work out for you and you lost your stoke about our product, you can go suck a railroad spike."


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

KobayashiMaru said:


> Guess who won't be buying Fizik shoes, and well, any shoe really.




Maybe you could get an orthopedic surgeon to bolt some cleats directly to your metatarsals?


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

Nat said:


> It depends more on the vendor than the manufacturer. REI for example is really good about letting customers return gear that's been used. I've been a member for 39 years now. Universal Cycles on the other hand wouldn't let me return a saddle because I sat on it. That's the last item I ever bought from them.


Yeah, but REI is definitely an exception in this area. Hardly anyone takes back returned/used gear. You can't resell it as new. REI has their scratch and dent sale every year. Most places don't do this. I'd be surprised if they're still as liberal with that policy as they used to be. 

I once returned some used hiking boots to REI after a trip, because they weren't working for me on the trail. They exchanged them. It's how they get you to stick around and pay full msrp+... and the yearly dividend. Pretty likable company really.


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## Mountainfrog (Mar 7, 2006)

Ogre said:


> I paid too much money for some Sidi Mega (their wide) shoes not long ago. They are great shoes and a nice wide box, but they are definitely on the XC/ gravel side of the spectrum. Very stiff sole and probably not the best if you are looking for a shoe which is great for pedaling and walking.
> 
> I also have an older pair of wider Lakes with the boa. Great shoes *except the boa*. The Boa thing is utter crap. I replaced bits once and not it's just falling apart while the rest of the shoe is in solid shape. I'm planning on taking them to the shoe doctor to replace the boas with some velcro or even maybe laces.


Boa fasteners can be a pain. I had another brand of the first Boa fastener that broke within six months. Velcro and/or laces on my next purchase. Ratchet's can sort of suck too, SIDI.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Mountainfrog said:


> Boa fasteners can be a pain. I had another brand of the first Boa fastener that broke within six months. Velcro and/or laces on my next purchase. Ratchet's can sort of suck too, SIDI.




After using boa's I'd have a hard time going back to anything else.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

KobayashiMaru said:


> Haven't bought any yet because I rarely find myself not wearing steel toes, but I plan to if I ever walk around without wearing boots.


Check out the Keen Utility line. They have safety toes and the Keen characteristic wide toebox.









Men's Work Boots


Find KEEN Utility work boots & shoes for men whether you're in a warehouse, on a construction site, or in heavy industry. FREE SHIPPING on orders $100+!




www.keenfootwear.com


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## Mountainfrog (Mar 7, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> After using boa's I'd have a hard time going back to anything else.


Okay, I may reconsider. Boa does provide a nice tight fit.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I had BOA on some 5.10s. I liked that I could quickly reach down and tighten or loosen my shoes a click or two while still on the bike. They got really gummed up with dust though and became sticky to where it was difficult to take the shoes off without a lot of force.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Nat said:


> Check out the Keen Utility line.


I appreciate the tip. I'm into my 8th year on my current pair and they're on their second sole and I'm needing new ones. Just like cycling shoes, they have to be tried on before purchase, and finding a shop with big and wide enough options in stock is so much of a time suck hassle, I'd rather just avoid trying altogether. The devil you know, right?


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

J.B. Weld said:


> After using boa's I'd have a hard time going back to anything else.


I loved the Boas until they broke. Now I have great shoes with a broken cinching mechanism.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

Ogre said:


> I loved the Boas until they broke. Now I have great shoes with a broken cinching mechanism.


I thought I read that Boa would replace, free of charge? Assuming they can be replaced... 

I'm shopping for shoes now, b/c the strap that goes into the ratchet mech broke off in my hand.... on an otherwise barely broken in pair of Bontrager shoes.... but still outside of warranty time. They weren't very comfy anyway.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

d365 said:


> I thought I read that Boa would replace, free of charge? Assuming they can be replaced...
> 
> I'm shopping for shoes now, b/c the strap that goes into the ratchet mech broke off in my hand.... on an otherwise barely broken in pair of Bontrager shoes.... but still outside of warranty time. They weren't very comfy anyway.


They do replace them, no hassle. You self-service them. I've done it once.

But now the piece that they mount to is tearing loose. It's just been a hassle.

You might look around for a shoe repair place. That's how I'm fixing the Lake shoes I have. They replaced all the lace hooks on a pair of Columbia hiking boots for me after they tore out. $30 to fix shoes that would cost $140 to replace was a steal. Not sure if they fix ratchet straps, but they might have options.

I know it's a sign of our culture that we just think when something gets broken a bit to replace it, but when you are talking about $150 shoes that you otherwise like, it's worth the $20-50 to fix them.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

Doubt it's fixable. The plastic part of the ratchet strap broke where it meets the leather. Super glue and duck tape might hold it for a minute.


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## feral (Feb 10, 2007)

As someone with 4E width feet I can tell you that the Shimano XC7 in Wide is fantastic. And I wear orthotics in them. Plenty of volume.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

feral said:


> As someone with 4E width feet I can tell you that the Shimano XC7 in Wide is fantastic.


I bought some Shimano XC5 wides today off of REI. Bought the membership too, so I have a year to make sure they're for me. (I'll know waaaay sooner than that.) Maybe this time will be the right time.


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## bmwpowere36m3 (May 14, 2007)

I have wider feet and shoe fit is totally personal... tried Shimano XC1 (not wide) at REI, WAY too tight. Stopped at LBS, Shimano RX8 wide fit was good, way better than the XC1s. Then they had me try on Specialized S-Works 7 (supposedly the same shoe, minus sole/lugs to Recon) in wide... OMG, they felt like slippers (perfect).

Of course they were a lot more than I wanted to spend, but the bigger bummer was they didn't have the S-Works Recon version in-stock, so I went with the RX8s and they've treated me well. Next pair, I'll be on the look out for the Specialized.


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## Surfindabass (Nov 30, 2020)

The Fizik Tensor has a nice wide toe box but I’d say the rest of the show has more of a snug fitting feel. Protection is really good though with a good amount of thick rubber in key places. The offset lacing, Velcro strap and different material are really comfortable for my feet riding in dry, dusty conditions. They make a clipless and flat version.

I can’t wear any narrow toe box width shoes anymore so I hope these stick around for a while.


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## buumer (Jul 8, 2020)

I was looking for something similar to replace my old Specialized comp shoes. I tried all of these to see what fit the best…

Specialized Recon 2 and 3
Specialized 2FO Cliplite
Fizik Terra Atlas
Lake MX218 (Wide)

The best fitting were the 2FO and MX218. The Recons are fine for a foot that’s just slightly wider than a standard last. The Fiziks were the least comfortable and most constrained.

If buying directly, Specialized has the easiest return process. Lake charges you return shipping and Fizik uses DHL (which can be a pain depending where you live).

I ended up picking the MX218, but there is definitely more heel slip compared to others. They are also on sale on Lakes site right now.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

The XC5 Wide showed up and were disappointingly tight in the toes. I would have to size up one or two sizes to fit my toes, and then I end up with too much shoe length ways, but thus is the curse of we wide footed freaks. When I was looking, they had the 46, which I bought, and a 48. I went back to the site to get the 48s but they're not available.

Past the fit, the shoes literally feel like they're plastic. I don't imagine that would be comfortable at all on the bike. I've worn a shoe with a canvas upper so my toes could bulge through the sides for 20 plus years, so maybe I'm just used to the natural feel and give of canvas, but I'm worried that any shoe I try will feel as jagged and unforgiving as these. I could see how any time on the bike would just open wounds in my feet wearing these shoes. Will all shoes out there feel this way?

Is anyone aware of wider, or roomy toe box, canvas or other natural fabric upper shoes?


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

This is my curse, and I assume that of many of those unfortunate duck footed souls in the world.

The red line is the outline of the "wide" shoe's toe box. They gray line is the outline of my toes.










Size 46. Wide. Way too narrow for a widely spaced set of toes. I would have to resort to ancient Asian foot binding techniques to fit into shoes manufacturers think should fit my feet.

Sizing up, eventually my toes fit comfortably inside the width of a shoe, but by that time there ends up being a couple of inches of excess shoe between the toe and heel to do it, which makes for a horrible fit.

It sucks.


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## Mountainfrog (Mar 7, 2006)

buumer said:


> I was looking for something similar to replace my old Specialized comp shoes. I tried all of these to see what fit the best…
> 
> Specialized Recon 2 and 3
> Specialized 2FO Cliplite
> ...


Nice comparison. I think some of the better shoes that my wide feet have adorned have been Specialized. I still like their offerings. My Lake MX 170s are holding up nicely. They are heavier, but sturdier, and the Boa hasn't broke. I may try some Shimano wide in the future, another good brand IMO.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

Hmmmm....The Ride Concepts Transition has my attention. I'm 4EEE on most shoes. Think it will work?

What about the Mavid Deemax Elite? Wide enough?

Currently using Specialized 2FO clip, which are ok, but sometimes the feet hurt.


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## Mountainfrog (Mar 7, 2006)

prj71 said:


> Hmmmm....The Ride Concepts Transition has my attention. I'm 4EEE on most shoes. Think it will work?
> 
> What about the Mavid Deemax Elite? Wide enough?
> 
> Currently using Specialized 2FO clip, which are ok, but sometimes the feet hurt.


Ride Concept you will need 1/2 size larger to fit the toe box, the rest of the shoe will be loose though. That's how my 3EEE fit. The Wide widths will be your best bet.


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## gastonbx (Oct 15, 2009)

KobayashiMaru said:


> This is my curse, and I assume that of many of those unfortunate duck footed souls in the world.
> 
> The red line is the outline of the "wide" shoe's toe box. They gray line is the outline of my toes.
> 
> ...


looks like your only option is:


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

Mountainfrog said:


> Ride Concept you will need 1/2 size larger to fit the toe box, the rest of the shoe will be loose though. That's how my 3EEE fit. The Wide widths will be your best bet.


I looked at their size chart. According to measuring your foot and picking a size I'm either 9 or 9-1/2". I don't wear that shoe size in anything I have. I'm either 10 or 10-1/2 depending on brand. I found that to be rather weird.


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## Mountainfrog (Mar 7, 2006)

prj71 said:


> I looked at their size chart. According to measuring your foot and picking a size I'm either 9 or 9-1/2". I don't wear that shoe size in anything I have. I'm either 10 or 10-1/2 depending on brand. I found that to be rather weird.


I wear 10 US, 44 EU, and I went up to a size 10 1/2 on someone's recommendation. My Van's are the same sizing as these shoe brands tend to run small even without duck feet. I noticed the equivalent UK size is 9 1/2 so maybe that is the measuring, don't know though. I hope this helps. I saw the Ride Concepts on sale for many of last years models at 50%.


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

I've found my people! Man this issue has been the bane of my cycling equipment for years now, glad to hear I'm not alone. 

The best pare of shoes I've had were and older set of Specialized Comps, but apparently the mold was changed after that pair and the fit is not the same. After these I worked through a pair of Shimano XC7s but they weren't perfect.

Needing a replacement recently, I landed on a pair of Northwave Rebels. They're not too bad, but I feel like I did need to go up a size so I do have a bit more room in the toe than ideal.

Definitely keeping this thread marked for future reference.


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## Mountainfrog (Mar 7, 2006)

gsteitz said:


> I've found my people! Man this issue has been the bane of my cycling equipment for years now, glad to hear I'm not alone.
> 
> The best pare of shoes I've had were and older set of Specialized Comps, but apparently the mold was changed after that pair and the fit is not the same. After these I worked through a pair of Shimano XC7s but they weren't perfect.
> 
> ...


Do they offer a Wide width like the Lakes? Are they lighter like the Sidi's and sturdy? I may consider those in the future. I have standard Lakes in 44 that actually fit well. They are holding up even better. I had older Specialized shoes that feet well, I haven't tried the newer ones. Size 10EEE US, 44 EU.


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## Calsun (May 12, 2021)

Last fall I bought more than 10 pairs to get ones that fit well and for me it was the Shimano ME5. With some shoes a 44 was too long and with other shoes a 45 fit OK. No consistency in sizing even with Shimano MTB shoes. Very much a trial and error approach.


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

k1creeker said:


> Hi all,
> My several generations old Shimano AM9 shoes are nearing end of life and I'm trying (in vain) to find another pair of clipless shoes built on a last for those of us with 10 toes. The latest iteration of the AM9 moved to the ballerina last of the AM7, and is no longer an option for my duck style feet (narrow heel, regular midfoot, low volume but wide toe area)
> 
> I've tried the Shimano AM7 and Ride Concepts Tallac with no success. Other shoes on my list that "look like" they may have a wider toe box include:
> ...


shimano am5 is probably the most comfortable mtb shoes ever.


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## darth tracer (Jan 13, 2004)

Im a 48 extra wide Bont Vaypor G and 48 extra wide Lake mx332, both fit ok. Bont is my most recent shoe, and is working well so far, we are just past the getting to know you part of the new shoe period. The Bont definitely reminds me of my Altra running shoes type of fit, where the Lakes are little more traditional. The heat molding is cool, but I didnt notice a huge difference other than in the heel. For wonky big feet these are the two best options that I have found.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

I ordered the Ride Concepts Transitions that have been mentioned here from REI. I followed the size chart on the Ride Concepts website, and then bought one half size above that and a full size above that, because, well, I have monster feet.

I literally can't even get my foot in the larger size shoe. It won't even go on my foot. It's like Chris Farley doing the fat guy in a little coat thing.

I'm going to an REI store to try on what I can, buying one of each of what seems to fit (if I can even be so lucky to find a shoe that will) and taking enough time to see what does in the long term. I'm sick of this shoe problem.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

This is an 11.5 size shoe.










Is the world playing some cruel joke on me? Is this a child's shoe? Did all of you somehow conspire against me and have some key fob sized shoe sent to my house?

I can not believe what is happening.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

Did you contact Ride Concepts and tell them that their foot measuring chart is crap?

Their size guide indicates that I should order a 9 or 9-1/2. I currently don't wear any shoes that size. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

I called them and spoke to someone at customer service. I told them I ordered larger than their size chart suggested and I was pretty emphatic about the shoes probably being the wrong size and maybe got the wrong sticker put on them. They casually told me if the insert inside the shoe was about a half inch longer than my foot when taken out of the shoe, it was the right size.

I couldn't make it clear how small this shoe was without a photo, and I couldn't see a way to send a photo to them on their website. The person I was talking to didn't seem interested in getting the photo. He just suggested I buy another pair a half size larger.

Awesome customer service. How can I be stoked about owning your product when the size you tell me should fit won't even go around my foot?


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

My problem is I don't need the extra volume that a "wide" version provides, I just need room in the toe box. My big toe does not bend inward and I get discomfort from it bing pinched so in order to get room I go bigger and have so much extra length at the toe. I wear clipless XC shoes and that in turn makes cleat placement challenging because the range is further forward on the shoe.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

I'm kinda ready to pull the trigger on some transition clips but now don't know if I should order my street shoe size (10 or 10-1/2) or go by their size chart that indicates I should order 9 or 9-1/2".

My measured length was 10-1/2"


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

I would suggest at least a 10.5, probably an 11, and then get an 11.5 and a 12 and return what doesn't fit.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

prj71 said:


> I'm kinda ready to pull the trigger on some transition clips but now don't know if I should order my street shoe size (10 or 10-1/2) or go by their size chart that indicates I should order 9 or 9-1/2".
> 
> My measured length was 10-1/2"
> 
> View attachment 1976260


I just bought some and went with my normal street shoe size, which fit fine. They are a cozy fit, so I could probably get away with a 1/2 size larger, but the tips of my toes don't hit the inside of the toebox at my usual size. I definitely would not size down.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

Nat said:


> I just bought some and went with my normal street shoe size, which fit fine. They are a cozy fit, so I could probably get away with a 1/2 size larger, but the tips of my toes don't hit the inside of the toebox at my usual size. I definitely would not size down.


Thanks. I ordered 10-1/2. See how it goes. I'll update if I have problems.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

Recieved my size 10-1/2 Transition Clips. 10-1/2 is also my street shoe size. They fit well.

I would not use the size chart on the Ride Concepts website. Had I used their size chart, I would have ordered 9-1/2" which would have been too small.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

It seems as if the sizing problem only applies to their flat shoes and not their clipless shoes.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Nat said:


> It seems as if the sizing problem only applies to their flat shoes and not their clipless shoes.


I had the trouble I had in the photo I posted with their Transition clipless shoe.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Just to add a bit more help to anyone looking...

I bought three different sized Shimano ME7 shoes, in the normal width. I would have bought the wide width, but REI doesn't carry them. The 46 was way too narrow, the 47 was a bit snug but the heel seemed right, the 48 has the most toe room but feels like it flops a bit more on the heel. It's not ample toe room, but it's the best out of what I've tried so far.

I put the bottoms of the 47 and 48 against each other and matched the lugs in the tread. If the 48 is actually a bigger last than the 47, it can't be more than a few mm, so I'm thinking they use the same last and just add a bit more internal volume from the upper having more material.

With the one year return, I'm giving these a shot. I think they'll be fine if they break in a bit. If they end up being too narrow after lots of use, I'll try the wide version. That should be a sweet spot for me.

I'll update over time.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Hello wide toebox people,
Check out this link on the Shimano web site:








LAST TECHNOLOGY | SHIMANO GEAR | SHIMANO BIKE-US


To Build Closer Relationships between People, Nature, and Bicycles. We believe in the power of cycling to create a better world as we move forward. We inspire all people to enjoy our products in their everyday lives and where they take them.




bike.shimano.com




Apparently a "Volume Tour" last is even wider in the toe area than "Dynalast wide".
Shoes with the "Volume Tour" last include the AM, MT, and GR series. 
I used to wear a 44 with the "Volume +" last, but after a few years wearing the wide toebox minimalist shoes, my pinky toe doesn't tilt inwards as much, and now my old shoes are tight. I hope something like a MT series shoe in size 45 will work.
Also, Lake shoes don't work for me because even though the shoes are wide in the metatarsal area, they are still too pointy at the toes.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Wide toe box =Lake MX 238


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

beanbag said:


> Hello wide toebox people,
> Check out this link on the Shimano web site:
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah. I just got a pair of the AM 903 shoes and they’re wide. I actually need to wear a thicker sock than usual.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

The Ride Concepts Transition Clip shoes have an anatomical toebox. Overall the last is snug but the toebox shape is squared.









Men's Transition Clip


An enduro/gravity clip shoe with mid-height protection to meet the demands of rough conditions Change is inevitable. Transition was designed to change the perception of how an enduro/gravity clip shoe should connect with the pedal. A wide and unobtrusive cleat box provides instant engagement and...




rideconcepts.com


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Brad said:


> Wide toe box =Lake MX 238


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Tried a size 45 Shimano AM5 in the store today and that seemed to fit ok, with only a little bit of extra length. But I don't want a downhill, heavy shoe but rather XC. Ideally something like a MT7 which still has good treads on the bottom. Then I tried on a size 45 MT5, and while the width was ok, it was really long??? (The store didn't have a 44 for comparison)
This is weird because both shoes are supposed to be built on the same last.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

beanbag said:


> View attachment 1986730


this brand has the roomiest toe box in the business


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

I need more room at the tip, not the metatarsal area


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Update:
Today I went to the bike store and picked up a set of Specialized Recon 3 on sale. For a size 44, the toebox is barely wide enough where the big and pinky toe will sometimes hit and sometimes not. There is about 1/2-3/4" of extra room in front of the big toe, but that isn't so bad since the very front of the shoe curls up anyway.
The Rime 2 also has a very similar fit but at the last minute I decided against it since I didn't want to deal with the laces.

I then went to another shop to try on some Lakes. They did not work out because the arch was way too high. Also, as I suspected, even with the "wide" size, the tip of the toebox is still too narrow and my pinky toe will hit while there will be extra width about 1-2 inches behind the pinky metatarsal. (Thanks, but not useful)

Finally I got to try some Bonts. The toebox does seem more square, or rather trapezoidal. Even though their size guide says I should be wearing a 44, a 45 wide (Riot) fit with no toe rubbing but excessive length in front. A 44 Wide (Vapor [something]) has the right length but toes rubbing. Hopefully the toebox is a bit heat moldable so I can get the smaller size.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

beanbag said:


> Update:
> Today I went to the bike store and picked up a set of Specialized Recon 3 on sale. For a size 44, the toebox is barely wide enough where the big and pinky toe will sometimes hit and sometimes not. There is about 1/2-3/4" of extra room in front of the big toe, but that isn't so bad since the very front of the shoe curls up anyway.
> The Rime 2 also has a very similar fit but at the last minute I decided against it since I didn't want to deal with the laces.
> 
> ...


Wow I'm really surprised the Bonts work out better than the Lake. I went through the same process and started with Bont but found the Lake just that much more supportive with lower arch and softer around the little toe.
Well glad you're on the right track!


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Brad said:


> Wow I'm really surprised the Bonts work out better than the Lake. I went through the same process and started with Bont but found the Lake just that much more supportive with lower arch and softer around the little toe.
> Well glad you're on the right track!


Well, the Bonts are extremely bad for evaluation as the default heel cup is way too narrow and hits whatever bone sticks out the side of the ankle. I was never able to put full pressure on my heel. And of course, if you heat mold it, it's no longer returnable.


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## Octopuss (May 30, 2020)

Anything a lousy european can buy? You mostly have different brands out there in the U.S. I think.

I am not even sure I am a duckfooted anomaly, but the shape of vast majority of shoes is killing me. Pointy elf feet as someone here called it is exactly what describes how shoes are made. Like what the fucking hell is the base for this? How did they even come to this kind of shape? Not even slim pro athletes have feet like this!
I could live with the little fingers being squeezed like a citrus because they're already FUBARed by 40 years of abuse from the hands of idiotic worldwide design, but getting the thumbs constantly pried open like a can is killing me.
I currently wear FiveTen Freerider Pros, but they're far from ideal. Also what's up with bike shoes being so hard? This sucks even for riding down and not pedaling at all.
Meh.
I hate this hobby sometimes.


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

I used some shoe stretcher from Amazon per a recommend post, worked like a charm!

Left them in a pair of Shimano XC702s for 48 hours and presto, fit is great. I gave them an extra 1/4 turn a couple times a day over that period.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Specialized customer service said that since the shoes are synthetic a stretcher won't work.


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

beanbag said:


> Specialized customer service said that since the shoes are synthetic a stretcher won't work.


Pretty sure my Shimano are synthetic and it worked great. YMMV


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## nebio (Jul 25, 2019)

beanbag said:


> Specialized customer service said that since the shoes are synthetic a stretcher won't work.


I had some success stretching out a pair of specialized 2FO. 
I heated the inside and the outside with a hairdryer Until the material felt softer and more malleable.
then used handle of a screwdriver to push/work around the toebox area from the inside of the shoe.
it does not appear much wider from the outside but it has has definitely felt roomier since then. Wondering if some of the benefit was compressing the layers inside versus stretching out the material. I have been told that the synthetic shoes tend to return back to their prior size but fortunately mine have still felt roomier. 
I have also done this with a pair of fiveTen free rider pros


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Update on my situation:
Reminder that I don't have a particularly wide forefoot, but rather my big and pinky toes point forwards and don't curve in like the average Western domesticated male. 
I got some Shimano XC502 shoes in Wide. Out-of-the-box, my toes still hit, but fortunately the toebox is made of some hard plasticky material that is somewhat heat moldable. I used a shoe stretcher plus a heat gun / hair dryer (warm, not hot) to push out certain points. It worked in that regard, but it also (accidentally) made the toe box lower in height also so now it was hitting on the top of my toes. I tried another round with the heat gun and wearing two layers of socks, and this seemed to work ok.
I tried out some Specialized Exos Evos and the toebox is rounded and soft / flexible enough that this shoe would have worked out also. But reading reviews, this shoe had a lot of problems so I didn't get it.
Instead, I got a set of Specialized Vent Evo shoes, which also has a rounded and soft toe box. Time to harvest from the Money Tree in the backyard...


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

...


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

Couple rides in on my Shimano XC7's after using an shoe stretcher from Amazon. Worked like a charm, shoes feel perfect now!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

__
http://instagr.am/p/CfBx_fKqFKw/


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Brad said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CfBx_fKqFKw/


oh, very nice. Maybe some day they will make a MTB version of this.
It's nice to see Lake FINALLY try to make shoes based on actual foot shapes, and not based on activity level like "Sport" , Competition", etc.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

gsteitz said:


> Couple rides in on my Shimano XC7's after using an shoe stretcher from Amazon. Worked like a charm, shoes feel perfect now!




Those are great for ill fitting shoes that you already have but I'd never buy a new, nice pair of shoes knowing that needed to be done.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

beanbag said:


> oh, very nice. Maybe some day they will make a MTB version of this.
> It's nice to see Lake FINALLY try to make shoes based on actual foot shapes, and not based on activity level like "Sport" , Competition", etc.



Any of their shoes with the "Sport" last would fit the foot shape depicted in the CX201.
These would be the MX 168 and MX 168 Enduro or MX177. There is a new MX 201 coming as well but not before end September.
MX 1 and MX 1 flat would be lace up options with the latter being for flat pedals


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

No way these two shoes fit the same feet


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

J.B. Weld said:


> Those are great for ill fitting shoes that you already have but I'd never buy a new, nice pair of shoes knowing that needed to be done.



The Shimanos are by far the best fitting, stiff soled cleat that I've found and I've tried a bunch. The only modification I needed was to get a smidge more room for my right big toe and they don't make half sizes. I feel like it's the perfect application for this product and it worked like a charm. YMMV


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

gsteitz said:


> The Shimanos are by far the best fitting, stiff soled cleat that I've found and I've tried a bunch. The only modification I needed was to get a smidge more room for my right big toe and they don't make half sizes. I feel like it's the perfect application for this product and it worked like a charm. YMMV




Glad it worked out well just saying I wouldn't be comfortable with it given the variety of options available and how expensive good shoes are.. I have used shoe stretchers but they were on shoes I thought were good but was proven wrong after a few rides. They can be useful.

I don't think Bont's have been mentioned. They have a natural toe box shape similar to Altra running shoes.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> I don't think Bont's have been mentioned. They have a natural toe box shape similar to Altra running shoes.


Never heard of them, but their Riot toe box shape looks great. If you're looking for a stiff XC shoe, this would be great option. Moldable sole with replaceable "sole guards" seems interesting. Priced really well for what you get.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

I tried on Bonts and their toebox (Asian fit version) are still too "trapezoidal", i.e. it still expects your big toe to curve inwards. I then emailed the company asking if the toebox can be heat molded to fix this problem, and they said no.
It also seems from reviews that the heel on the Lake CX201 is way too wide. So I don't believe them anymore that they made it for "natural foot shapes", they just took a regular foot shape and simply made it wider everywhere.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Custom is always an option.


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## phazedalx (Jun 22, 2007)

J.B. Weld said:


> Custom is always an option.


Who would you recommend for custom? I might email Don at Lamson shoes but for enduro/park stuff id want a lot more protection if im spending that much on shoes.

Ive been running the lake 168 enduro which have been ok. My wide feet slide stretch over the edge a bit but the main issue I have is the cleat platform deforms and cants my foot at an awkard angle after a few months of riding.

Ive been trying the Bontrager Rally shoes and have stretched the **** out of them and they are "OK". Very comfy but still a bit too narrow.

I feel like I email all these show companies to make wide shoes all the time. Feeling hopeless.


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## WillDB (Jul 15, 2020)

God, if someone made a cycling shoe like an Altra Superior 5, we'd be in business!

Bont wides are pretty good.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

atomiccityfun said:


> Altar Special 5


what?


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## WillDB (Jul 15, 2020)

beanbag said:


> what?


Meant Altra


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

What's a "special 5"?


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## damien009 (5 mo ago)

KobayashiMaru said:


> Good Lord if someone can figure out human beings have different shaped feet...
> 
> Same problem. It's not a wide foot, it's just that my toes don't taper back from the big toe to the pinky toe at a sharp angle like every shoe maker in the world thinks all feet are shaped like.
> 
> ...


sorry for the off topic comment in advance.I normally just read on here but decided to make a post to help a fellow wide toe spread brother out. One of the best things in life ive discovered is wide toe box normal shoes.I can't wear a super wide normal shoe as my foot is not wide perse say.I just don't have pointy elf feet or enjoy having my toes smooshed.. the good toe box shoes are Mostly behind brands that lable them self as bare foot shoes or minimalist shoes. so you will have to adjust to not having a raised heel. but there are brands like that still have extra cusion is desired. there are a decent amount of brands out there to cater to your acutal toes as not all angle the same. all I can say is since switching to shoes that actully fit my toe box my feet have never felt better now if bike shoes could just have toe boxes like that lol


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

gastonbx said:


> looks like your only option is:
> 
> View attachment 1975543



Bought a pair of those years ago and they've sat unused for most of a decade. The other day my wife drove off with my riding shoes so I strapped them on. 

Made me remember why they were unused. Stiff and uncomfortable as hell.


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## k1creeker (Jul 30, 2005)

Just an update on my search. For anyone looking at the Bontrager Rally, their sizing chart runs a full size too small. Add a whole size to what you'd normally wear. 
Since the "12's" I ordered were 11s so I couldn't judge the toe box width. More to come...


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## k1creeker (Jul 30, 2005)

k1creeker said:


> Just an update on my search. For anyone looking at the Bontrager Rally, their sizing chart runs a full size too small. Add a whole size to what you'd normally wear.
> Since the "12's" I ordered were 11s so I couldn't judge the toe box width. More to come...


The size 13 Rally I bought is better in length, but the toe box is still narrow around my big toe. Both were sent back. The Rally is also a really tall shoe below the foot.

I found a couple of old Shimano AM5s from around 2016-2017 that I will try in addition to the new Shimano AM9 hoping it really is built on their volume tour last and not the narrower last of the AM7...even though the tread pattern is exactly the same.


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## k1creeker (Jul 30, 2005)

I realize this might not be the shoe for everyone's needs, but for wide toe box seekers, the Shimano AM5 (SH-AM5012) from 2019 has the widest toe box I've encountered so far, if you can find a leftover in your size. AM5 | SHIMANO BIKE-EU


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