# How to train to climb?



## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Hi, last 2 years i really enjoyed riding my fat bike, mountain bike (4/8 months). Let say i went from realy beginner, to beginner and now probably advanced beginner. I am 60 and enjoy climbing. It gives me small challenges, i might take 4-10 attempts to make it all the way without putting a foot down. I try to improve my technique, legs and heart.

Any suggestion for a 5 weeks program until the trails are dry enough is welcome. 

I have 
- 7 floors to sprint up the stairs, it takes me about 58 sec.
- might join a gym for 5 weeks, i like kettle bell swings
- a bridge about 7 min away wich has an up and down shape, i can sprint uphill about 45 sec. rest about 40 sec. including the downhill and u turn. I did repetitions for about 11 min. 2 years ago.
- a few small weights and a backpack

I am a small 5 feet 10.5, 150 pounds with the potential to loose 5. My natural qualities are flexibility and endurance.

Thanks


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

squats

and climbing on the bike, repeats

stairs don't do a hell of a lot but if you carry 100lbs then
we are talking. do stairs with 100lbs strapped to you, or carrying
a bar with weights


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## roadkill401 (Mar 14, 2017)

I found personally that climbs are mostly about technique (balance) and not about strength. There can be a bit of endurance thrown in. As a bike has gears, it's not like you have to power through a climb all the time as depending on your bike setup, there are granny gears that will translate a small amount of power into movement. Now I have never figured out on some bikes the need for a 30t crank and 46t cog. You'd be needing to be climbing some near vertical climb if you were using the slog power through it approach. But once you shift your mind into technique, the slow granny gears can be used to inch your way forward through technical challenge where you need to slowly move forward while still keeping your balance. 

If you are looking for what to practice, I'd say spend the time on your bike inside a parking lot or on your driveway and practice balance skills. Learn how to stay up on your bike while not moving forward. This requires you to learn shifting your weight around and using your breaks to limit your movement. When you get better at that, then learn the art of walking your bike sideways. Shifting your weight to bring up the front tyre 3-4" off the ground and then bringing your weight forward to bring the rear tyre the same 3-4" off the ground. Learn to do that without falling off your bike and that will teach you more about balance that will translate into better skills when you are on a climb. You will know the feel for where your weight is on the bike and how to keep it.

But that is just my take on the issue and sometimes I am way out there.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

roadkill401 said:


> I found personally that climbs are mostly about technique (balance) and not about strength. There can be a bit of endurance thrown in. As a bike has gears, it's not like you have to power through a climb all the time as depending on your bike setup, there are granny gears that will translate a small amount of power into movement. Now I have never figured out on some bikes the need for a 30t crank and 46t cog. You'd be needing to be climbing some near vertical climb if you were using the slog power through it approach. But once you shift your mind into technique, the slow granny gears can be used to inch your way forward through technical challenge where you need to slowly move forward while still keeping your balance.
> 
> If you are looking for what to practice, I'd say spend the time on your bike inside a parking lot or on your driveway and practice balance skills. Learn how to stay up on your bike while not moving forward. This requires you to learn shifting your weight around and using your breaks to limit your movement. When you get better at that, then learn the art of walking your bike sideways. Shifting your weight to bring up the front tyre 3-4" off the ground and then bringing your weight forward to bring the rear tyre the same 3-4" off the ground. Learn to do that without falling off your bike and that will teach you more about balance that will translate into better skills when you are on a climb. You will know the feel for where your weight is on the bike and how to keep it.
> 
> But that is just my take on the issue and sometimes I am way out there.


you -are- way out there. climbs are not about power ? you get knocked in the dome or something ? climbs are all about power. notice I am not saying speed, but power. if you have lots of power you can finesse the climbs so much more. lack power, no matter what, you are gonna get smoked on a climb, bobble, choke, not make that root, not be able to hop UP over crap...

come ON man....


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Power yes...technique yes...I would say some of both. If you have both you will do well. There is a third...mental approach, the internal drive to WANT to get to the top without bailing. It's the same for any physically challenging activity to power through the pain...some have it and some don't but it can be improved over time.

On the technique side, something I find helpful is maintaining as high a gear as possible during climb and reduce the urge to hit that granny gear unless it's absolutely needed. This also gets into the mental side of things.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

sturge said:


> Power yes...technique yes...I would say some of both.


I agree, you need both to be a good climber on the mtb but I would add that more power can make technique less crucial because you can just bully your way over obstacles.



33red said:


> Any suggestion for a 5 weeks program until the trails are dry enough is welcome.
> 
> I have
> - 7 floors to sprint up the stairs, it takes me about 58 sec.
> ...


Can you get out on the roads? I really think the best way to get better at climbing on a bike is to do more riding and climbing on a bike. Intervals are especially good and if you can't do them on a bike I'd recommend doing them however else you can to increase cardiovascular efficiency.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

There was a hill at my regular trail that always stopped me 3/4 of the way up. I just didn't have the wind. 
After doing a really hard core kickboxing class for a few months, I conquered that climb. 
I've since moved and don't live close enough to that gym any more so I'm sure I can't make that hill. Gotta find a new place.


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## roadkill401 (Mar 14, 2017)

127.0.0.1 said:


> you get knocked in the dome or something ? climbs are all about power. notice I am not saying speed, but power. if you have lots of power you can finesse the climbs so much more. lack power, no matter what, you are gonna get smoked on a climb, bobble, choke, not make that root, not be able to hop UP over crap...
> 
> come ON man....


Well yes actually. About 14 years ago some A-hole decided that the red light was there for decorative purposes and didn't apply to them and ran the light. Over the hood, through the windshield, thrown back off as they slammed the breaks and then driven over as they didn't bother to stop. Thanks for asking!!

But to my point, as there is no real definition as to what the OP is considering a climb, I think it rather short-sighted to say that power will simply over come all obstacles. If it was just a straight line 20grade climb with a few rocks and roots in the way then sure, power in one direction is easy and will get you to the top. But if this is a bit more fun in being a switchback type singletrack that is still the 20grade climb but has multiple obstacles that you need to avoid as you just can't ride over them, then your power overcomes all mentality is as good as eating soup with a fork. Sure you could try but balance and technique will trump power every time.

I have a fitness route that I like to take 3-4 times a week in the summer. It's not really what anyone would call a mountain bike trail, as the town over the years had decided to pave sections where it use to be crushed stone (but was an actual single track trail when I started riding them 25 years ago). two of the hills are more like 30 or 35grade and the only way up them is with power. But along with that as the grade it so steep, you need to really watch your balance and positioning of weight on the bike. Positioned too far back and you will lose all traction off your front wheel or even flip the bike over. Put your weight too far forward so you get good steering grip and your back wheel will just spin as you have no grip. Too low a gear and you run out of steam before you reach the top. Too high a gear and if you lose momentum you will never get it back as your fighting with balance and traction. Throw in 5 steel gates you need to manoeuvre around and it can get challenging. But the worst hill of the lot is a not so shortcut that is a 1' singletrack that meanders out of a valley, where the trail isn't all that flat. At points, you have a perilous fall down 25' onto rocks so you better have balance. The path dips up and down around trees that have some gnarly roots then suddenly turns back on itself for the last 20' climb that is a mixture of rocks and roots. Power gets you only part of the way as unless you have balance your never getting up it.

The OP was looking for what to do to improve his climbing skills but I would guess that better riding skills all around would also help. And learning balance on a bike is often forgotten as speed overcomes the need for it. That is just my take.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

power overcomes all. true. you don't have balance without power. you really need to rethink the physics involved on a climb and all the items you mention like balance...etc because without power you are gonna have a real bad time making split decisions and counting on your body to react and save your ass for each grunt. 

what the frick is your goal on a climb ? get up it no dabs, or screw around sniffing daisies ?

you gotta blow your legs up to train for this. squats, or stairs with weights, is something that is doable that ain't riding a bike.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I'm 65. 28 years of climbing trails above 7000' elevation, and many trips to Moab with no other training (though I get over 80 days a winter of telemark skiing which is great for strength/endurance) have made me a pretty good climber. At least, I'm happy with my capability in that regard.
I suppose some other regimen of running up stairs, going to the gym, etc. would have done the same, but it's waaay more fun just to ride.

One thing that was pretty significant was the multiple trips to Moab. The very first trip there, the lightbulb really went on as to what could even be climbed. In regard to steepness, endurance required and technical proficiency, it set the bar much higher for me. There are climbs there, that I'll never be able to do, but each time I go, I clean something I've never cleaned before.....I'm sure that will change just due to age, but not because I'm not trying new climbs.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

MSU Alum said:


> I'm 65. 28 years of climbing trails above 7000' elevation, and many trips to Moab with no other training (though I get over 80 days a winter of telemark skiing which is great for strength/endurance) have made me a pretty good climber. At least, I'm happy with my capability in that regard.
> I suppose some other regimen of running up stairs, going to the gym, etc. would have done the same, but it's waaay more fun just to ride.
> 
> One thing that was pretty significant was the multiple trips to Moab. The very first trip there, the lightbulb really went on as to what could even be climbed. In regard to steepness, endurance required and technical proficiency, it set the bar much higher for me. There are climbs there, that I'll never be able to do, but each time I go, I clean something I've never cleaned before.....I'm sure that will change just due to age, but not because I'm not trying new climbs.


free heel skiing equates to leg power climbing on a bike. that is another way cyclists who 'are always fast' maintain in winter. true story.


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## JDHutch (Sep 29, 2017)

Building strength in your legs is the key to climbing. If you can’t get out and ride you can do squats or leg press and stationary bike in the gym. I like the “hill plus” setting on stationary bike. 

For less steep climbs get off your seat and attack the hill. For steeper climbs you’ll probably want to stay seated so your back wheel doesn’t slip. 

Overall it’s just like any other skill....repetition repetition repetition. In the process of riding and lifting your lungs will start to catch up also.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

did anyone mention getting a trainer? At your stage on the bike 3 or 4 20-30 min sessions per week on a trainer would be really helpful. You could go super cheap with an old road bike and a used trainer, and just watch something on tv. Or go the Zwift route that a lot of guys seem to like. A trainer is great to have for filling in those training gaps, keeping you from being off the bike too many days in a row. 
Your height/weight ratio are quite good, adding to your power and endurance will help a whole lot, and there's no real good substitute for spinning some pedals. My general rule has been; no more than 2 days off the bike, no more than 3 days on (to give some rest/recovery), and short rides do count.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Aerobic power isn’t really correlated to raw strength that you get from squats or other lifts. 

And, I think a lot of people are hung up on that. Too many over built people out there with very low power to weight ratios applying the wrong fix to what is a relatively simple problem. 

If your climbs are 10min long, develop more power for that duration (almost entirely aerobic). Lose weight. Improve power to weight (w/kg) ratio. 

Helpful hint: it takes remarkably little physical strength to produce 300w on a bicycle, but not that many people can do it for very long. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I DO need to work on my downhill riding skills.....I was thinking of having my wife shove me down a flight of stairs in a wheelchair! That would be a pretty fair simulation...and she seemed enthusiastic about the idea.


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## marcva (Apr 1, 2018)

Hmmm... 53 yr old "Flatlander" here from Northern VA, where my rides were on terrain with maybe 100-150 vertical feet. I'd do a lot of small loops that created an interval workout. climb for 30 seconds roll downhill for a couple minutes...repeat. When I shipped my bike out west, i had no issues climbing with the locals. I was typically the first up the flume trail at Tahoe, which is an annoying climb that gets more sandy and steep as you go.

One teeny qualifier is that I'm 5-7" and 135, so I'm kind of made for climbing. I also rode a road bike a ton as a scrawny kid who was denied a moped, and I got very good using the gearing and positions to maximize what little I had.

I'd say I get a good 20-30+ just being more effective with gearing, etc. making sure I maximize every pedal/wheel rotation is huge for me. I'm amazed how many people don't understand basic transmission management (hence all the automatic cars in the world).


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## marcva (Apr 1, 2018)

Plus kicking down 3-5 gears more and standing up from time to time to move the load to your arms pulling on the bars. I see people stand up without shifting. That seems terminally inefficient to me.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

I have a pretty simplistic view of training for sub-elite athletes so take this advice with a grain of salt. If you want to get better at climbing hills, go climb hills. Get a road bike if the trails are too wet.


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## Len Baird (Aug 1, 2017)

General fitness on the bike will help a lot in pretty much any situation. A trainer, with or without zwift, or putting in consistent fitness rides over a period of time will help with it.
Everything is easier if you feel stronger and fitter.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

You can always try a singlespeed. My climbing had pretty much plateau'd a few years ago. SSing totally changed that.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

chuckha62 said:


> You can always try a singlespeed. My climbing had pretty much plateau'd a few years ago. SSing totally changed that.


I'll second that.

A lot of people think it's all about strength. That helps, but...

...what you learn on a singlespeed is technique.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Nothing prepares you for a sport as well as doing the sport. If you want to climb well on a bike you need to ride your bike, up hills, a lot.

Things that might help your climbing:

Get rid of the fat bike. Get a bike with normal sized tires, they are lighter and more efficient. Get suspension, this will improve comfort and increase traction, both of which will increase efficiency.

Ride your bike three to four times a week, short hard rides during the week, a long ride on the weekends. Avoid hibernating over the winter, ride year round.

Learn how to spin.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Get rid of the fat bike????

Sheeeit... Practice on the fatty and then when you climb a hill on a regular bike, it'll be like cheatin'.


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## MudderNutter (Oct 23, 2014)

I think balance drills are amazing for improving technique on technical singletrack climbs. Power is always worth working on. If you're not lifting then you aren't training to be a well balanced athlete.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

This morning i started doing up and downs the bridge, in a week or 2 depending on rain i should be able to go up a grassy hill in a park and play in a small wood.
Thanks


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

Go find some killer climbs, get on the bike and earn it, 
You simply must get comfortable Inside the hurt locker, 
learn to take the pain, there will be loads of it but learn when to stop, 
learn how to fuel and hydrate properly,
learn to rest and heal,

Velominati Keepers of the Cog, the rules.
Velominati â€º The Rules

Rule #10 applies

"Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don't stop when you're tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired."

If the pain Is a bit much for you, maybe you should contemplate rule #5
on the tree of woe 

Yep I'm an old fart In training


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## marcva (Apr 1, 2018)

Osco said:


> Go find some killer climbs, get on the bike and earn it,
> You simply must get comfortable Inside the hurt locker,
> learn to take the pain, there will be loads of it but learn when to stop,
> learn how to fuel and hydrate properly,
> ...


...Though if youŕe over 50, then consider a heart rate monitor so you have a personal tachometer of sorts. IT helps a ton with pacing.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

"I'd do a lot of small loops that created an interval workout. climb for 30 seconds roll downhill for a couple minutes...repeat." (markva), 
I do most all my race training on a 35min loop with climbs shorter than 40 seconds, and once a week do a loop over and over that is about 12 seconds up and 12 sec down, it's really steep up and a dozen just wrecks me (it might be too much, looking into that). The short climb training can make you pretty good at longer climbs, you don't need a long hill to get good at climbing. 
Like LeDuke was saying, lots of guys can put out big power for a short time (like how everyone is fast the first 5 minutes of a race). Short hard hills can build repeatable power and quick recovery, and if the hills are close enough together that you don't fully recover you body starts to see it as one longer effort (like my 12 sec hill repeat loop). 
Longer sustained efforts (like even on a trainer) can help stretch that out into good power output for longer.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

marcva said:


> ...Though if youŕe over 50, then consider a heart rate monitor so you have a personal tachometer of sorts. IT helps a ton with pacing.


A power meter is even better because heart rate monitors have a response lag. It doesn't really apply to short or technical climbs but on long drags a power meter could be a valuable tool because as you mentioned pacing is crucial.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

jimPacNW said:


> "I'd do a lot of small loops that created an interval workout. climb for 30 seconds roll downhill for a couple minutes...repeat." (markva),
> I do most all my race training on a 35min loop with climbs shorter than 40 seconds, and once a week do a loop over and over that is about 12 seconds up and 12 sec down, it's really steep up and a dozen just wrecks me (it might be too much, looking into that). The short climb training can make you pretty good at longer climbs, you don't need a long hill to get good at climbing.
> Like LeDuke was saying, lots of guys can put out big power for a short time (like how everyone is fast the first 5 minutes of a race). Short hard hills can build repeatable power and quick recovery, and if the hills are close enough together that you don't fully recover you body starts to see it as one longer effort (like my 12 sec hill repeat loop).
> Longer sustained efforts (like even on a trainer) can help stretch that out into good power output for longer.


5 minutes from home i have a hill i can just repeat up n down, the snow just melted, in 3 days i will check it and vary on pedals with seated


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I don't know if it's been mentioned yet but strava can be a great training aid. For sure it's improved my climbing and I know several other people who say the same, something about seeing concrete results can be a serious motivator to improve on them. If you already have a smart phone it's free so there's nothing to lose.


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## Yalerider (Feb 14, 2017)

I ride my road bike when wet and climb hills or my trainer and try to set it harder to pedal


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

Most all the racers I know hate doing hill repeats, I might be the only one I know who does them really consistently, and I don't really enjoy them either, - they do in fact hurt. In my opinion they are really valuable, so suffer through them and over time you will get the payoff. I'm 51, and it seems that 6 weeks is when I have really noticed a difference when changing training.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

jimPacNW said:


> Most all the racers I know hate doing hill repeats, I might be the only one I know who does them really consistently, and I don't really enjoy them either, - they do in fact hurt. In my opinion they are really valuable, so suffer through them and over time you will get the payoff. I'm 51, and it seems that 6 weeks is when I have really noticed a difference when changing training.


Thanks, i remember a guy into road bikes was saying the way to improve is to spend lots of time in the red zone, where it hurts, it burns. I did that a few times over the last 4 years but i was not consistant. Now i am motivated and will do it for 2 months or more.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

Consistency, including rest, is really important. There's lots of good threads re training and intensity on the xc racing/training forum. You can get pretty fast on 4-5 hrs training per week. It's also important to do one longer ride per week, or at least once every 2 weeks, especially if your regular rides are very short (30min to an hour). 
If you haven't been doing much high intensity for a while, don't overdo it!, get at least a few weeks in before you start to turn it up.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> A power meter is even better because heart rate monitors have a response lag. It doesn't really apply to short or technical climbs but on long drags a power meter could be a valuable tool because as you mentioned pacing is crucial.


Hmmm, a $40-50 HR strap that works with the head unit you use on multiple bikes vs >$500 for a powermeter for one....hard decision.

It all comes down to pacing and a HRM does it well enough for most people.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

richde said:


> Hmmm, a $40-50 HR strap that works with the head unit you use on multiple bikes vs >$500 for a powermeter for one....hard decision.
> 
> It all comes down to pacing and a HRM does it well enough for most people.


I don't know the op's budget, for some people $500 isn't that big of a deal. Anyway I agree that pacing is key and that a HRM is useful but was just throwing it out there that a power meter is the best tool for that job.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

In french we use an expression GBS it means gros bon sens that might be translated by plain commun sense. I have a 5$ watch so occasionaly i use the stop watch function and it will stay that way, i like keeping things simple. No cell phone, just old school


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

EKG once a year,
I wear no monitors,
I do check my pulse now and then,
59 and no problems so far,,

If I drop dead out on the trails so be it.
I have started to stay out of the black diamond trails, mostly.
I work out at 90% and ride for fun at no more than 80% these days.

My only real climbing secret:

When my legs are screaming I look ten feet ahead and press on till I hit that mark. Then I look ten feet ahead, etc..


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