# Fat tires + hardtail + Thudbuster vs. Full suspension?



## zanq (Feb 10, 2004)

I'm not 50+ but I thought this question might get the best feedback from this group:

I have 2 steel hardtails that see mostly gravel or road duty and a full suspension 29er for trails. I bought the full suspension frame to handle the rooted and rocky trails in New England where I once lived. However, I now live in the Midwest where trails tend to be pretty smooth and it leaves me questioning if owning a full suspension rig is overkill. It's heavy, more moving parts so more to maintain, and is a dedicated tool for 1 job. The development of adventure/gravel bikes that can run 27.5" wheels with fat rubber for trails or 29" wheels with ~40c rubber for the road/gravel is interesting. I sold my road bike last year; could only accept very thin rubber so it beat me to death. I'm finding my taste in bikes to be changing from "1 trick ponies" to frames that have more versatility; my one hardtail is a Surly Ogre.

For those who have bad backs and "just aren't as young as you used to be", is your go-to bike a full suspension or have you found happiness with a hardtail that has bigger rubber and maybe a Thudbuster seatpost to deal with the big hits? I injured my lower back a few years ago and occasionally it flares up. 

My thought is to strip the full susp. frame and swap what I can to a new adventure/gravel frame (wheels, components). The susp. fork would work on the Ogre if/when needed. My goal would be a bike lighter and faster than the Ogre on the road for group rides and events but would be trail capable with a swap of the wheelset if I wanted a change or had a guest. I just don't want to be hasty selling off the full susp. frame if that is my best choice in the long run.

Thanks!


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Build the bike you want to ride. Full suspension isn't about comfort (though it helps), it's about performance. No matter what size tires you have or even if you add suspension seatpost, it will never perform like an FS bike. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## binrat (May 25, 2005)

I have had used the USE seatpost suspension a lot in the past. (same as thudbuster) It takes the edge off of things butt and back related. But when it comes to terrian where you want full suspension, it has nothing to do with the peformance and does not compare to FS. 
The reason I'm riding FS bikes now is more for rough terrian performance without killing myself like I did when I was younger and foolish.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I would give up a lot on my bikes including rear suspension (I live in BC), but won't ride without a dropper any more. If I built a rigid single speed, it would have a dropper. I had a USE post 20 years ago, used it a bit, and replaced it with a Thomson back then. The USE is on my wife's bike now. IMO bigger tires will help enough, and I would skip the suspension post.


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## mr_chrome (Jan 17, 2005)

I have two bikes at opposite ends of the spectrum: 1 rigid SS Ti 29er that I use for training or easy pedaling (like vacationing with the wife), and 1 FSR Tallboy 29er for serious mountain riding......both are considered light, respectively, for the type of riding they provide which is key to me......for the trails you describe, I would probably ride the SS 29er a lot more if the trails around me were flat / smooth........


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## Wcginn (Feb 22, 2017)

*Old Man & Fatty*

I am 71 & have gone from 26" > 29 HT Lefty > 29 rigid single speed. And now to a fat bike, rigid, 4" tires. The bike is CrMo and 29 lbs. 
It is the best, most forgiving bike I have ever owned! Bought my wife one, too. 
If I were to get a new Fat Bike I would look for light weight, and a SRAM XX1 1x12 drive Eagle group (X01 OK too), Schwalbe Jumbo Jim 4.0 or 4.4, tubeless. 
OneOne 'Mary' bars are great for my older hands. 
Many Thanks!


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## russinthecascades (Jun 1, 2013)

OP never said what FS bike he has, how much travel, what shock/fork. For me, these are important questions when looking at options since there's such a wide range of FS bikes.

Btw, I tried the NitroPro suspension post on my hardtail and was originally impressed with it's function. But when I gained more experience and then time on a FS bike, there were plenty of things I didn't like about the NitroPro. Sold it.

Agree with TB above - I would put a dropper post on a HT before a suspension post of any kind.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Silentfoe said:


> Build the bike you want to ride. Full suspension isn't about comfort (though it helps), it's about performance. No matter what size tires you have or even if you add suspension seatpost, it will never perform like an FS bike.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Good point on "helps". I'm no doubt going down same path my mother's had with back problems and find the suspension bike can help with time in the saddle but what it does more than anything is aid control and in some cases aid traction.

I've only tested plus bikes but that included real trail riding. We do however have fatties in 26 and 27.5 wheel size. I don't see that as real suspension or back relieve. It's undamped suspension. The fat and plus can be like cheating for traction but also too squirmy and unpredictable compared to good 29r wheels and tires.

On suspension, I've had it from about the beginning - Fat Chance Shock-A-Billy with AMP. Also had and tried about all types meaning single pivot, Horst, rented and tested others such as VPP and DW types. My by far favorite is the late generation Treks with the "Re:Activ" Penski valve. No brake funkiness, no soft or flabby when pumping it. No flipping levers to get what you want. I truly think about all bikes are great these days but as one who loves a hard tail and suspension those Treks just nail it perfectly.


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## zanq (Feb 10, 2004)

russinthecascades said:


> OP never said what FS bike he has, how much travel, what shock/fork. For me, these are important questions when looking at options since there's such a wide range of FS bikes.


My FS rig is a Ventana El Rey (2007). I think the rear is 3" and the fork is 100mm.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

zanq said:


> My FS rig is a Ventana El Rey (2007). I think the rear is 3" and the fork is 100mm.


My wife's response to modern bikes has me thinking you should try some new dual suspension bikes. I feel the same considering what I used to think of them with big wheels and what I think and know now.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

A Thudbuster is not a substitute for suspension. Think of it more as a vibration absorber.

I have both types but no longer use them. They are outclassed by a triple sprung Brooks saddle which I use for my upright cruising bike.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

I ride a rigid 29er (with a 410mm fork, so road-bikeish geometry), bar ends, 35 mm touring tires as my "road bike" these days. (I don't imagine I will ride narrower than 32 mm ever again, even on road.) I have another rigid 29er with somewhat narrow bars (635 mm I think), no bar ends, 2.2 inch knobbies, which I tend to ride on the road or just around here and there, up to maybe 30 miles. I wouldn't do real trail riding on this bike, but it's OK for dirt roads and jumping curbs, running at 26-30 psi. My actual MTB is a 29er FS trail bike, "modern" geometry, dropper post. I commute on this bike (about 2 miles of trails in an 8 mile one way commute), and will do bigger weekend rides, sometimes 40+ miles, riding the road to get to the trails. Everything is with lots of climbing. Tubeless running at 20-24 psi.

So with that background I'll say this: as of a few years ago, I was starting to get shooting neck pains whenever I got a hard impact through the seat on my hardtails. It scared me a few times. With a FS bike, this just doesn't happen. If I'm doing a pure road ride, or road plus a little gravel, I'll ride one of the rigid bikes. But if bumps and dirt are a big feature of the ride, i want my FS bike. I'm 52. I imagine this bias will only increase as I age. And I agree with other posters: the dropper post is more of a game-changer than 1x shifting, maybe more than full suspension (especially for a young rider without neck/back issues). I consider a dropper post to be necessary for a bike to be considered a proper mountain bike now.

Funny--I know people who go out of their way to "underbike." But for me "overbike" is the way to go. What's the downside? I get a better workout!


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## Rngspnr (Feb 15, 2016)

I have a full squish Evil Following and a Dartmoor Primal 27.5+ hardtail. I find the opposite for me as far as back pain between HT and FS. I find on my FS I encounter more lower back stress than on my hardtail. I think it's because on my hardtail i'm forced to use my arms and legs more as my suspension so i'm not in the saddle as much as on my FS. I think on my FS I rely on the suspension to suck up the trail roughness and some of that gets transferred up through my back. I could also be that it seems to take a bit more body effort to clear features on the FS than the HT.


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