# Downcountry Bike for Older Riders



## centershot (Nov 21, 2008)

Itching for a new bike. Currently I ride a 2017 Fuel EX 7. I like it but it feels slow and a bit heavy. My wife has a Salsa Timberjack 29 and she can pull away from me on a long easy climb. I like the Salsa Timberjack SLX 29 but not sure how much I'd miss Full Suspension. I don't ride many knarly trails anymore so hardtail would probably be ok, but I have also been on F/S bikes for the last 7-8 years and am getting soft. So that has me looking at short travel bikes with trail geometry. Most of the short travel bikes have very racy geometry and are not comfortable for me. Curious if others have had this same thought and what have you gone with.

FWIW: My favorite shop sells Kona and Salsa, Second best shop sells Trek and crappy local shops sell Giant and Specialized. Would really like to stay with something from my favorite shop. Short list bikes are Kona Hei Hei and Salsa Spearfish. Budget ~$3K - less would be nice but don't want junk components and a boat anchor.


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Giant Trance 29
Never ridden one, but reviews look really good and seems to be good value (parts ect..)


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## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

Based on the bikes mentioned, your budget, components and boat anvhor wishes, don't be surprised if the wife still pulls away from you on rides. As mentioned I'd second the Trance 29 too but the Stance 29 would be a good choice too. It's lighter than the T29 and with your budget you could lighten it up a little more.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

Deleted due to being bad info.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

NorCal_In_AZ said:


> The Hei Hei is more of a XC bike. I would think that it would lean towards the more race like feeling you don't want. What about the Progress 134? I think it classifies more as a down country bike.
> 
> I haven't ridden either, but they were part of my search for a 29er trail bike. I went with Fezzari Abajo Peak, as the whole package fit my needs and wants best, I hope lol.


I own both of these bikes, you're quite off on your estimation of what each one is. Seriously if you don't know what you're talking about maybe it's best to just sit back and learn from others until you have *accurate* and *useful* input to add to a conversation. Guessing is not helpful.

OP, sorry for the rant, I hate misinformation being spread on these forums.

The Hei Hei is what I would call downcountry. It's definitely one step away from a pure bread XC race bike. More relaxed geo but still pedals extremely efficiently. This is my endurance race bike. It's also a total blast. Very snappy, fast, fun, and super capable for a short travel bike.

The Process 134 is much more of a mid travel trail bike, it's NOT a lightweight XC bike. It's meant to be ridden hard on chunky stuff. It's built to take a punch. While it pedals remarkably well for a bike with 135mm of travel, it's not in the same league of pedaling efficiency as the Hei Hei. (different suspension platforms).

If I were you I'd be looking for a bike with 100-120mm of rear travel with a higher Stack height. Or just plan on adding riser bars to whatever you buy.

There's a lot of great bikes in this category. I've ridden the Ibis Ripley v4, Transition Smuggler, Pivot 429, etc. Both the Ibis and Pivot are DW link bikes and pedal really well for example, a used one of those would be sweet. I'm sure others will add more great options to your list.


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## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

I'm out of the loop... WTF is a 'downcountry bike"?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Phillbo said:


> I'm out of the loop... WTF is a 'downcountry bike"?


It's just like a mountain bike, but with a trendy categorization.

Rode one for a couple years before I realized I was ahead of the trend. I had to completely re-categorize my bike in my mind after it started to catch on. Crazy times!


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

*OneSpeed* said:


> I own both of these bikes, you're quite off on your estimation of what each one is. Seriously if you don't know what you're talking about maybe it's best to just sit back and learn from others until you have *accurate* and *useful* input to add to a conversation. Guessing is not helpful.


Sorry about that. Your right, mis information shouldn't be spread. I try not to do that, but sometimes trying to helpful, you over reach.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

NorCal_In_AZ said:


> Sorry about that. Your right, mis information shouldn't be spread. I try not to do that, but sometimes trying to helpful, you over reach.


:thumbsup:


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

NorCal_In_AZ said:


> Sorry about that. Your right, mis information shouldn't be spread. I try not to do that, but sometimes trying to helpful, you over reach.


You're fine. The dude above was way harsh and needs to check his ego. The Hei Hei is listed on Kona's website as an XC race bike so I guess they're wrong, too. It did get a bit slacker in recent years but it's still a 29er 100/120 bike.

Kona used to have a 140/140 27.5 model called the Hei Hei Trail that I can't find in their 2020 lineup that'd make a good enduro race bike. Maybe that's the downcrunchy (stupid name) he's referencing.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

Phillbo said:


> I'm out of the loop... WTF is a 'downcountry bike"?


Yep.... Here ya go....

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/what-the-heck-is-a-down-country-bike-opinion.html


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## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

*OneSpeed* said:


> There's a lot of great bikes in this category. I've ridden the Ibis Ripley v4, Transition Smuggler, Pivot 429, etc. Both the Ibis and Pivot are DW link bikes and pedal really well for example, a used one of those would be sweet. I'm sure others will add more great options to your list.


Legit suggestions except for maybe the $3k budget maybe?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

JMac47 said:


> Legit suggestions except for maybe the $3k budget maybe?


Hence the USED recommendation.


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

BTW, what does “for Older Riders” mean? How ‘bout just “Downcountry Bike Recommendations”?

I’m 55 and ride as hard as anyone 30 years younger than me. I cede NOTHING to being older.

My short-travel, downcountry bike is a Yeti SB100. Nails the category, and I love it. Pricey, though. I second the recommendation to get a nice used bike. Check Pinkbike; you might be surprised at what you find.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## steadite (Jan 13, 2007)

Add another 1000 to your budget and you could get a fezzari signal peak gx build.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Intense sniper. Thats down country. If you cant pass someone on that it because you forgot to put air in the tires.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

What wheels and tires are you running on the Trek? Since you're not doing massive chunky gnarly stuff, maybe you could look for some narrower, light tires--could make a huge difference in how the bike pedals. I have a full suspension bike and also an old hardtail. The hardtail is fun and I like to take it on quasi-gravel rides, where I'm on roads but also hit trail sections. But I really do miss the full suspension while pedaling over bumpy stuff (not so much descending out of the saddle).


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

A down country bike is what use to be a trail bike before all the trail bikes got as long/low/slack as all-mount and enduro bikes. The OPs '17 Trek Fuel EX is an example of a trail bike that went long/low/slack just after the '16 model year, which is what I have. I also have a '18 Tallboy which has a pretty similar geo to the '16 FEX. The new TB4 is ludicrously long/low/slack...imo.


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## centershot (Nov 21, 2008)

noapathy said:


> You're fine. The dude above was way harsh and needs to check his ego. The Hei Hei is listed on Kona's website as an XC race bike so I guess they're wrong, too. It did get a bit slacker in recent years but it's still a 29er 100/120 bike.
> 
> Kona used to have a 140/140 27.5 model called the Hei Hei Trail that I can't find in their 2020 lineup that'd make a good enduro race bike. Maybe that's the downcrunchy (stupid name) he's referencing.


Moved to end.


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## centershot (Nov 21, 2008)

I agree "Downcountry" is a stupid name - but whatever. It does seem to describe the type of bike that I'm after. A short travel trail bike. Short travel for efficiency going up and some cush going down. I'm getting older and don't like my butt above my hands anymore (race bike geometry) - much prefer a more comfortable (trail bike geometry) upright position. Will never race it but do like to zip around on local trails. A big drop for me is about 3' and I rarely do lift assisted riding. Mostly ride up, then back down - 10-20 mile loops with 1,000-1,500' of climbing and fun flowy (some chunk but not really knarly) downhills. Mix in about 1,000 miles per year of riding to work and around town and that's what I have done for the last 10 years or so. Last 2.5 years on the Fuel Ex7, 4 years before that on a Rumblefish, 3 years before that on a Trek 6700 hardtail, 15 years before that on a Klein Pinnacle. Probably TMI but there you have it. Thanks.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

I guess I'm inadvertently building one of these now. I've only ever had "classic XC" geo bikes. Decided on a budget build for my birthday (Octane One Prone 29 frame). I see this "downcountry" thing and I'm thinking... "Maybe I just accidentally got the newest thing?". 420mm chainstays, 66.5 HTA (a little slacker) and more reach than my current bike. I'm putting a 130 fork on it. I'm pretty stoked to see how this thing rides now!


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## HEMIjer (Jul 17, 2008)

Ripley would be the top choice (I actually get ready to put a Medium 2016 up for sale with i9 wheels, XT, pike ultimate, to go to Ripmo or something similar, yes shameless plug anyone feel free to PM).

Other option I didn't see here would be Trek top fuel.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

centershot said:


> Moved to end.


Agreed. His original suggestion of a Process 134 was a pretty good one to be fair. It comes in at 140/134mm and both 29 and 27.5. I've ridden a 2019 and while it's not quite as efficient as the Hei Hei it climbs well and has a little more squish.

Also, most people are moving away from the crazy high saddle nonsense, opting for a dropper post and more comfortable riding position (there are still some like that though). Having ridden the Hei Hei as well, I wouldn't rule it out based on what these bikes used to be. Hop on one if you get the chance. You may be surprised.

Re: your Trek Fuel EX 7 - I demo'ed that as well and also found it sluggish as did a friend who owns one. He upped the pressure in the suspension and added some tokens to somewhat alleviate it but is still looking for a different bike, but he's not a mechanic or anything. You could check out the Trek subforum and see what people are/were talking about to tune their bikes to get better performance that suited their riding style. I get the feeling that's a common problem (not just this bike, but many).


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## colbatguano (Jul 9, 2014)

Marin Hawk Hill 3 seems a good fit for your needs as described (besides the LBS part).

Kona Process and Giant Stance would be on my list as well, but the Process might be more squish than your riding style requires.

My current ride is a 2014 Megatrail (150/160) and that's a great fit for my preferred trails and riding style, but I'm considering the Hawk Hill as a second bike for longer rides and/or flowier trails than what I lean towards on the Megatrail.


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## centershot (Nov 21, 2008)

Update to original post - there seems to be more than just me interested in this category. I'm liking the new Kona Hei Hei AL. Good looking bike, specs and parts appear solid and a price tag of $2600 along with the best shop in town selling Kona. Now, just have to wait until some new bikes start trickling in......Still waiting to see what the Salsa Spearfish looks like for 2021. Will most likely be one of the two.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

centershot said:


> Update to original post - there seems to be more than just me interested in this category. I'm liking the new Kona Hei Hei AL. Good looking bike, specs and parts appear solid and a price tag of $2600 along with the best shop in town selling Kona. Now, just have to wait until some new bikes start trickling in......Still waiting to see what the Salsa Spearfish looks like for 2021. Will most likely be one of the two.


I really like the idea of the Kona Hei Hei AL. I almost got a 2016 Hei Hei AL, but ended up passing, because I wasn't confident in the flex-frame design of the rear triangle. I think that's still the design, based on a quick read of a BikeMag review (of a carbon frame version). Whether this is an actual issue, or just a theoretical issue, is up to you to decide. I recall trying to look this up in 2016, and found some posts of people who had rear triangle failures with Giant xxx (can't recall the model) that also had an aluminum flex-frame rear triangle design. I can't claim this is a statistically valid comparison, but it was enough to scare me. I think a flex-frame design in carbon fiber or steel is totally valid, but I'm leery of aluminum. For what it's worth, I ended up with an AL frame version of the Orbea Occam 29er 2016 model year, for about the same price. Probably quite a bit heavier, but it rides well. While the 2016 carbon Occam has a flex-flame design for the rear triangle, the Al version has a hub concentric bearing. The current Occam is more downhill oriented, I believe (like everything).

Here's another brief thread on the Hei Hei AL:
https://forums.mtbr.com/kona/2020-2021-hei-hei-al-reviews-1148191.html#post14918827

Edit: Here's another post with some discussion of pivotless flex triangle designs: https://forums.mtbr.com/xc-racing-t...a-fuse-felt-fast-orbea-occam-oiz-1053166.html


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## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

*My "Geritol DC" rig's on order!*



centershot said:


> Itching for a new bike. Currently I ride a 2017 Fuel EX 7. I like it but it feels slow and a bit heavy. My wife has a Salsa Timberjack 29 and she can pull away from me on a long easy climb. I like the Salsa Timberjack SLX 29 but not sure how much I'd miss Full Suspension. I don't ride many knarly trails anymore so hardtail would probably be ok, but I have also been on F/S bikes for the last 7-8 years and am getting soft. So that has me looking at short travel bikes with trail geometry. Most of the short travel bikes have very racy geometry and are not comfortable for me. Curious if others have had this same thought and what have you gone with.
> 
> FWIW: My favorite shop sells Kona and Salsa, Second best shop sells Trek and crappy local shops sell Giant and Specialized. Would really like to stay with something from my favorite shop. Short list bikes are Kona Hei Hei and Salsa Spearfish. Budget ~$3K - less would be nice but don't want junk components and a boat anchor.


'20 GT Carbon Sensor! Don't hate.....😎


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## Galeforce5 (Jun 7, 2013)

[Most of the short travel bikes have very racy geometry and are not comfortable for me. Curious if others have had this same thought and what have you gone with.

FWIW: My favorite shop sells Kona and Salsa, Second best shop sells Trek and crappy local shops sell Giant and Specialized. Would really like to stay with something from my favorite shop. Short list bikes are Kona Hei Hei and Salsa Spearfish. Budget ~$3K - less would be nice but don't want junk components and a boat anchor.[/QUOTE]

I am in the same boat as I am looking for a new ride for my upcoming 65th tour around the sun. Here's a few that are intriguing-Trek Top Fuel 8 $3,300.00 120 front 115 rear travel, Scott Spark 940 120/120, Orbea Oiz TR H30 120/120, Canyon Neuron CF 8.0 130/120, Whyte T-130 130/120. Some of these are NOT local for you, but are all within the price range (maybe a few hundred over). These are all bikes that are on my list to ride and then decide.


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## ruffm (Dec 28, 2011)

I dunno if Transition spur has been mentioned but I have one on the way. I got lucky and found it used on PB just minutes before I was putting a deposit down on a new one that wouldn't be here until sometime march/april.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

ruffm said:


> I dunno if Transition spur has been mentioned but I have one on the way. I got lucky and found it used on PB just minutes before I was putting a deposit down on a new one that wouldn't be here until sometime march/april.


I don't think you're finding one for $3K.

I would check out the Top Fuel 8. I haven't ridden the AL bike, but I think the carbon one is aces. It is a FAST bike. A bit over $3...but close.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...x/p/32985/?colorCode=greenvisibility_bluedark


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Agree Top Fuel is good DC choice...geo is basically the same trail bikes from a few years ago. I'd def go for aluminum over CF if the component spec was acceptable to me. The problem is, they usually cheap out on the aluminum bikes.


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## SoDakSooner (Nov 23, 2005)

waltaz said:


> BTW, what does "for Older Riders" mean? How 'bout just "Downcountry Bike Recommendations"?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


My thoughts exactly.. I am 53 and typically one of the faster guys(on downhill sections) on our local trails, at least among strava users.

I have had the same question concerning "downcountry". Is it the new "all-mountain"?


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Over the past 6+ years, each travel category of bike has gotten progressively longer/lower/slacker which favors descending (makes it less scary). XC bikes are getting to be like what trail bikes were and trail bikes are getting to be like enduro bikes were, enduro like DH. Pure XC bikes still tend to be more trad 100mm bikes. Those that have become longer/lower/slacker with ~120mm travel and more like what trail bikes were 5 years ago are now called (by some) downcountry.


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## 2sharp7 (Aug 29, 2013)

Maybe a Transition Spur?


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## tomboyjr (Jul 16, 2009)

Just to add my 2 cents. I recently bought a 2020 Giant Trance Adv 2 29er, and found it online on sale!!! I had been looking for a shorter travel 29er that would pedal more 
efficiently and be lighter than my older Kona Satori. This checks all the boxes. Great suspension, good drivetrain, wheels etc. And it was in your price range. $3500

However, about a year ago I sold my old (2013) Salsa Spearfish, and I gotta say I miss it a lot. It had 80mm rear travel, though it felt like more. Enough to take the jarring out of east coast rocky rooty trails, and with the 120 fork I had on it, the geometry was fine for just about everything I was riding. It pedaled great, very efficient. It was crazy light, even though I had built it up as a 2nd bike from parts I found on sale. 
So if the newer Spearfish is as good or better than mine, I would say check it out.


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## chudaman (Oct 30, 2005)

*OneSpeed* said:


> The Hei Hei is what I would call downcountry. It's definitely one step away from a pure bread XC race bike.


You're quite off on your estimation of your vocabulary ability. Seriously if you don't know how to spell "bred" maybe it's best to just sit back and learn from others until you have *accurate* and *useful* input to add to a conversation. Guessing is not helpful.

OP, sorry for the rant, I hate misspelling being spread on these forums.


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## 2sharp7 (Aug 29, 2013)




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## 2sharp7 (Aug 29, 2013)

Sorry I couldn't resist and besides, who doesn't like a nice warm fresh loaf of homemade bread?!


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## speedygz (May 12, 2020)

Joe Handlebar said:


> Yep.... Here ya go....
> 
> What the Heck is a Down-Country Bike? - Opinion - Pinkbike


Wow. I'm way ahead of the curve then. I sem to have built my own hardtail down country bike.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Phillbo said:


> I'm out of the loop... WTF is a 'downcountry bike"?


The latest hype to make a bloke think they are gettin sompin special, but it's only a vanity name.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It’s not the bike, even having a bike a few pounds lighter ain’t gonna make you that much faster.

If you like your bike, then just ride it, Fuel Ex is a good all around trail bike.

Try locking the shock when climbing, go to a faster tire, fill your wife’s tires with sand 😆

If you’re jonesing to buy a new bike, then demo until you find one you like, 120-130mm rear travel,

and say hell no to a hardtail, that’ll suck on the way down and the beating you get over a twenty mile ride will offset any gains in efficiency.

Why not get a nice carbon Fuel EX?


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## speedygz (May 12, 2020)

Joe Handlebar said:


> I guess I'm inadvertently building one of these now. I've only ever had "classic XC" geo bikes. Decided on a budget build for my birthday (Octane One Prone 29 frame). I see this "downcountry" thing and I'm thinking... "Maybe I just accidentally got the newest thing?". 420mm chainstays, 66.5 HTA (a little slacker) and more reach than my current bike. I'm putting a 130 fork on it. I'm pretty stoked to see how this thing rides now!


Did you finish the build? Still got it? Like it? I was tossing up between one of those, & a Brand X HT-01. Ended up building the Brand X -I like 27.5/650B's better, & absolutely love it. Best fun bike ever.


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## speedygz (May 12, 2020)

Nurse Ben said:


> and say hell no to a hardtail, that'll suck on the way down and the beating you get over a twenty mile ride will offset any gains in efficiency.
> 
> Why not get a nice carbon Fuel EX?


Ha ha ha ha. I'm mid/late 50's, had a few decent injuries (busted & plated hip, busted & pinned feet, busted collarbone, bulged discs in my back, & happily ride my Alloy frame 650B for more miles than that easy as.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

speedygz said:


> Did you finish the build? Still got it? Like it? I was tossing up between one of those, & a Brand X HT-01. Ended up building the Brand X -I like 27.5/650B's better, & absolutely love it. Best fun bike ever.


I did...I do...and yes! I started riding it in June and it's ridiculously fun.


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## Crankyone (Dec 8, 2014)

Get your wife a heart rate detector and set the alarm at about 130bpm. The alarm will give you the edge you are seeking.


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## cat3shark (Feb 4, 2021)

I am looking at either the Ibis Ripley V4 (GX Factory Build) or the Transition Spur XO1 build. Both are under 26lbs and excellent climbers (I haven't ridden the Spur yet but word is that it's a rocket ship downhill while the Ripley is a rocket uphill). 

Plan on getting one or the other this Spring. One of my buddies has a Trek Fuel EX 9.9 that is light and fast, but I think once I get off my AF Bad Habit I will pass him on the up's.


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## cat3shark (Feb 4, 2021)

paramount3 said:


> What wheels and tires are you running on the Trek? Since you're not doing massive chunky gnarly stuff, maybe you could look for some narrower, light tires--could make a huge difference in how the bike pedals. I have a full suspension bike and also an old hardtail. The hardtail is fun and I like to take it on quasi-gravel rides, where I'm on roads but also hit trail sections. But I really do miss the full suspension while pedaling over bumpy stuff (not so much descending out of the saddle).


Also, go tubeless...saves weight.


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