# Cold Weather Pieces of Gear



## Mace9 (Feb 18, 2020)

I'm hoping to remain active this winter and want to gather a few reliable and effective pieces of gear to extend my riding season.

Thought I would ask what gear makes your cold weather riding more enjoyable?

Thanks


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## kevin267 (Mar 9, 2011)

Start riding with a pack more so I can add/ditch layers.

A thin buff is probably the best thing to add IMO, having it over my ears helps lots.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Mace9 said:


> I'm hoping to remain active this winter and want to gather a few reliable and effective pieces of gear to extend my riding season.
> 
> Thought I would ask what gear makes your cold weather riding more enjoyable?
> 
> Thanks


Define "cold weather", "riding season", and "enjoyable"?


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## Shredmonkey (Jan 24, 2013)

I don’t ride much when the weather gets below freezing but my favorite fall and chilly morning ride item is the Patagonia rainshadow jacket. Many similar jackets out there but the key features are wind/ water resistant stretch fabric, hood fits over helmet, Velcro cuffs and huge pit vents for total airflow control, and it packs down inside itself and fits inside my 2L hip pack when it warms up. 

Also +1 for a Buff. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 274898 (Nov 29, 2005)

Managing moisture is the toughest part of riding in the winter. Body puts off so much moisture and sweat. Most jackets just trap all that moisture inside. I'm still looking to find better ways to manage the moisture. 

I don't ride in cold, cold weather. Only in high 40-50s and I still get cold. Lol. I'm not made for the cold weather because I'm too lean. However, what has helped me is compression microfleece underlayer. It fits tight and works sort of like a wetsuit, where it still stays relatively warm even when wet with body moisture or sweat. Lightweight softshell is also good too because it does let more moisture out. However, the negative is that it doesn't block wind a lot


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Go to the fatbiking forum. All the information you need is there.


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## fredcook (Apr 2, 2009)

mikesee said:


> Define "cold weather"


This.

Where I ride, that means a long sleeve jersey versus a t-shirt.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

wool

silk

thin layers of these with shell = not dying


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## ronhextall (Sep 13, 2015)

Feet Head and Hands are most important.

Sweat management is very important if you are going to be out for 90 minutes or more. Anything less and I think you can ignore it.

Have ridden as cold as -25 degrees F for multiple hours.

Experimentation is key, everybody is different. I wouldn't go from nothing to extreme cold riding and dress based on advice.


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## CycleKrieg (Dec 19, 2013)

mikesee said:


> Define "cold weather", "riding season", and "enjoyable"?


These are important points to consider.



127.0.0.1 said:


> wool
> 
> silk
> 
> thin layers of these with shell = not dying


Yep. Thin layers that breath well allow you to tune your clothes to conditions.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

ronhextall said:


> Feet Head and Hands are most important.
> 
> Sweat management is very important if you are going to be out for 90 minutes or more. Anything less and I think you can ignore it.
> 
> ...


Highly disagree with the sweat management, not just for the unplanned stuff (like yesterday waiting on paramedics that I called for a non-responsive person found on the side of a bike path), but because it turns your clothes into nasty funk and significantly decreases your warmth. No reason to not ride in comfort and maintain dry. I do agree that everyone is different. Some people have to take much more extreme measures with their hands/feet.

Some of the basic issues that riders run into is trying to dress like a downhill skier, which basically moves with a large headwind at all times without nearly the same sustained aerobic output (body gets to cool down after the run or on the lift, etc.). Dressing with those kind of snow-pants and insulated jackets usually leads to being miserable and does not allow for breathing of moisture. It's important to know the temp range, as stated above, because in near-freezing, frozen stuff does tend to melt on your and having some waterproofness can be helpful, additionally, that tends to cool you off and keep your body from sweating as much, vs. in colder wx, mid to lower 20s and colder, your outer layer is always below freezing and any falling frozen precip just brushes off, the precip doesn't keep you cooler and you need more breathability. In general, our output is similar to XC/nordic skiing, so that's a good base-line to dress for.

Things like group-rides and waiting for people can kick you into the "next coldest" temperature-range as far as layers and clothing. I always bring that "next level" with me, in a frame-bag. If it's not my fat-bike and I have less storage, it's a little trickier, but not impossible.


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## dsciulli19 (Apr 14, 2014)

I usually draw the line at 25*F or so, but if I'm riding in the cold I use the following: 

- Winter gloves
- Insulated baselayer and long tights
- high socks 
- thermal mid layer
- Gore-tex type 20K shell jacket
- Insulated balaclava or bandana depending on how cold
- I ride with a pack no matter what but it helps to have a place to stash a layer if you get too warm. 

Also helps: 
Pay extra attention to your equipment in the winter time because the cold can turn a minor inconvenience/malfunction/injury into a life threatening emergency if you can't get back to your vehicle and warm up in a timely manner. 

-DS


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Jayem said:


> Highly disagree with the sweat management, not just for the unplanned stuff (like yesterday waiting on paramedics that I called for a non-responsive person found on the side of a bike path), but because it turns your clothes into nasty funk and significantly decreases your warmth.


stink ? not with wool and silk
warm when soaked ? yes to wool and silk

there are some synthetics which are warm but stink, and some which don't stink but that is rare. wool and silk need serious neglect to develop any funk at all...and they stay warm

best bet is start ride a bit chilly, and you'll warm up as you start to hammer. carry spare shell, wool hat and handwarmers in case you bonk or otherwise cannot produce enough heat to offset the cold, add those layers, and head back.

I have a burton synthetic shirt which is thin and extremely warm when wet like wool is, but gawd almighty does it reek after 3 hours of hammering...even after fresh laundering pre-ride. it's just how that shirt rolls. hence, i prefer wool and silk. it's so much better


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## TooTallUK (Jul 5, 2005)

If you're riding at around freezing and below, you could do a lot worse than a Montane Extreme jacket:
https://www.montane.com/mens-c1/clothing-c25/insulation-c6/extreme-jacket-p51

I've got the jacket and the smock and have worn these for over 2 decades including for military use. I wear a wicking layer underneath and am comfortable for a couple of hours of riding at below freezing with great ventilation when needed. Excellent for snow sports as well. The simplicity of the jacket should not be underestimated. It keeps on working.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

Wool is a life saver. Vent-able wind-breakers are too. But the right answer definitely depends on what "cold" really means where the ride is taking place. For me it is upper single digits Fahrenheit, riding where I will never be more than a few miles from my car or highly trafficked areas. Different temperatures or isolation will definitely change things a bit.


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## CycleKrieg (Dec 19, 2013)

fly4130 said:


> Different temperatures or isolation will definitely change things a bit.


This ^^^.

This whole exercise becomes a learning experience. Biking in the cold in Ohio is way different than Northern Minnesota. Biking on some remote trail is different than on in your local park.


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## offroadcmpr (Apr 21, 2012)

CycleKrieg said:


> This ^^^.
> 
> This whole exercise becomes a learning experience. Biking in the cold in Ohio is way different than Northern Minnesota. Biking on some remote trail is different than on in your local park.


The terrain matters too, even in the same region. Biking up a steep hill at 5 mph and then back down at 25 mph requires different clothing than flat or undulating terrain.
Once I'm warmed up I could be warm in a t shirt going up the hill, but I would be extremely cold coming back down unless I put layers back on.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

I spent somewhere between two weeks and a month out riding in Alaska, in winter, on the Iditarod and other winter trails, every year for over 20 years.

I've also lived -- and ridden -- my entire life in cold, snowy places: Michigan, Minnesota, alpine Colorado.

I developed a handful of techniques to stay warm and -- much more importantly -- _*dry*_ over those years.

I never really thought much about them until my wife decided she wanted to go ride the Iditarod.

And then I spent a lot of time watching her habits, giving gentle nudges where needed, and praising the good habits she'd already developed through a life lived outside in Colorado.

As she prepared for the Iditarod race that winter I took the time to write down many of the nuances to staying dry and warm (in that order) as she got ready to head north.

Here's an overview.

Here are some specifics on hands.

And feets.

Aaaaaand pants.

All of the above are written from the perspective of riding in the mountains, or higher latitudes, and not necessarily having access to shelter when needed.

Think of it as a springboard to experiment with and on what works for you, where you live and ride.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

^That's great. Should make it a "cold weather" sticky. 

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

Mikesee, you raved about the OMW pants in the past and I almost picked some up. I may have to finally pull the trigger. I have my top finally sorted. The bottom is the last bit.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

fly4130 said:


> Mikesee, you raved about the OMW pants in the past and I almost picked some up. I may have to finally pull the trigger. I have my top finally sorted. The bottom is the last bit.


It still amazes me that they exist. Such a specialized product, with such a limited market.

They're available in black this year. I may snag a pair and just stick them on a shelf to have as backups for 10 years from now. They're that good.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

Sold. Got a pair coming from REI, full retail. Looks like Trek has the grey in stock as well on their site. REI also has the Revelate Expedition pogies on sale for 160 bucks. Seems like a very good price. Overkill for my needs but they look awesome.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

fly4130 said:


> Sold. Got a pair coming from REI, full retail. Looks like Trek has the grey in stock as well on their site. REI also has the Revelate Expedition pogies on sale for 160 bucks. Seems like a very good price. Overkill for my needs but they look awesome.


how did you find them on REI? they don't come up in a search


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

The pogies are under accessories\gloves. Took some clicking.

https://www.rei.com/product/882355/revelate-designs-expedition-pogies


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

fly4130 said:


> The pogies are under accessories\gloves. Took some clicking.
> 
> https://www.rei.com/product/882355/revelate-designs-expedition-pogies


ohh..I thought you got the Bontrager pants at REi....

thanks for the link!!


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

Hah, sorry man. I did get the pants from REI. I thought you were asking about the pogies .

https://www.rei.com/product/178402/bontrager-omw-soft-shell-cycling-pants-mens

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## The_Mickstar (Apr 22, 2008)

I have three pieces that I use all the time when it's "cold"...

1. Silk glove liners. These can be used under anything from normal riding gloves to heavy winter gloves.

2. Buff. Usually as a neck gaiter, but super versatile.

3. Vest with windproof front, breathable back. The breathable back makes a HUGE difference.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

fly4130 said:


> Hah, sorry man. I did get the pants from REI. I thought you were asking about the pogies .
> 
> https://www.rei.com/product/178402/bontrager-omw-soft-shell-cycling-pants-mens
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


sweet!!! This might be an early Christmas present idea....


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

mikesee said:


> It still amazes me that they exist. Such a specialized product, with such a limited market.
> 
> They're available in black this year. I may snag a pair and just stick them on a shelf to have as backups for 10 years from now. They're that good.


Any chance they're updating the color on the jacket? That light blue screams sweat, dirt, and road spray stains up the back.

I'm still looking for the unicorn jacket that blocks some wind, but breathes well, has good sized zipper vents (4 inch side vents or "highly breathable material" under the arms just don't seem like they'd cut it), and I would like a hood. I ride in Minnesota so winter is even below 0F plus windchill for me. The 37.5 material intrigues me and I love the huge vents. I just don't like the huge pricetag


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## Halfabrain (Jun 5, 2014)

Any recommendations for a skullcap/beenie? There are so many options in material and type. Luckily, most seem relatively cheap so experimenting is possible. 

I've tried a standard skullcap and its too much heat and sweat...

My intended use is night riding in Norcal coast conditions, so air temps in the 40-50F range.


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## RyderRider (May 18, 2020)

Halfabrain said:


> Any recommendations for a skullcap/beenie? There are so many options in material and type. Luckily, most seem relatively cheap so experimenting is possible.
> 
> I've tried a standard skullcap and its too much heat and sweat...
> 
> My intended use is night riding in Norcal coast conditions, so air temps in the 40-50F range.


I'd either suggest using a light merino wool skull cap that can breath, or a buff that can be worn on the head, or easily be pulled down around the neck if you want.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

I think riding with a pack is key once it gets below 35 or so. I like to bring some extra dry layers just in case you end up with a mechanical or an injury that slows your roll. I personally have a very high sweat rate too, so staying dry during aerobic activities is not an option for me. 

One thing I’ve started doing for my feet, which get cold easily, is putting an adhesive toe warmer on the top of my sock, and a bootie or toe cap over my shoe. And, if it’s really cold or I’ll be moving faster (i.e. gravel bike), I’ll wrap my insole in aluminum foil, and wrap the shoe’s toe box (outside of shoe) in aluminum foil as well, then carefully put the bootie over that. This adds extra wind protection and heat reflection/retention. 

You could also get into using vapor barrier liners (VBL) for feet, though I typically only need that for hiking/snowshoeing in temps under 15 or so. 

Another reason I like having a backpack is to add/remove/exchange gear as needed. Yesterday I started my ride in a mid-weight cold weather cycling glove, but once I warmed up switched to my regular summer gloves. And ditched my beanie, and vest.


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## Arebee (Sep 13, 2012)

Our group will ride all the way down to single digits (F*) here in New England. I find multiple layers of thin wicking shirts work best up top and my REI thermal pants do just fine with my fox knee/shin pads doing double duty as wind blockers. I wear a balaclava over my head and face when it gets down below 30.

My issues have always been my hands and feet getting cold. I fixed the hand issue last year when I bought the Pearl Izumi Lobster gloves. Highly recommend them. They do well even down to the single digits. I tried every combination of socks, insoles and chemical warmers with my regular shoes and never was completely warm. I wear a size 13, and never found booties that would fit well. 

So, I just pulled the trigger on a pair of 45NRTH Wolvhammer cycling boots. Should have them this weekend although it's supposed to be 60* here in CT!


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## CycleKrieg (Dec 19, 2013)

Halfabrain said:


> My intended use is night riding in Norcal coast conditions, so air temps in the 40-50F range.


As a Minnesotan, I find that hilarious.

My suggestion: https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/sarma-tst-l1-merino-wool-beanie/50987


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Arebee said:


> Our group will ride all the way down to single digits (F*) here in New England. I find multiple layers of thin wicking shirts work best up top and my REI thermal pants do just fine with my fox knee/shin pads doing double duty as wind blockers. I wear a balaclava over my head and face when it gets down below 30.
> 
> My issues have always been my hands and feet getting cold. I fixed the hand issue last year when I bought the Pearl Izumi Lobster gloves. Highly recommend them. They do well even down to the single digits. I tried every combination of socks, insoles and chemical warmers with my regular shoes and never was completely warm. I wear a size 13, and never found booties that would fit well.
> 
> So, I just pulled the trigger on a pair of 45NRTH Wolvhammer cycling boots. Should have them this weekend although it's supposed to be 60* here in CT!


I really don't like my wolfhammers, but the new generation *should* be better with the removable liners. Get them at least 2 sizes too big, you can always build up the foot-bed with aerogel, neoprene or sheep skin. I use wiggy's lamilite socks instead of regular socks, which works nice because I sewed little pockets into the toes above the toe-box where I can slip a toe-heater in, works great out on the trail so I don't have to worry about positioning it and can do it quick. Riding with SPDs just sucks the heat right out of your foot and you need significant distance between the cleat and your foot, insulating distance.


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## Arebee (Sep 13, 2012)

Jayem said:


> I really don't like my wolfhammers, but the new generation *should* be better with the removable liners. Get them at least 2 sizes too big, you can always build up the foot-bed with aerogel, neoprene or sheep skin. I use wiggy's lamilite socks instead of regular socks, which works nice because I sewed little pockets into the toes above the toe-box where I can slip a toe-heater in, works great out on the trail so I don't have to worry about positioning it and can do it quick. Riding with SPDs just sucks the heat right out of your foot and you need significant distance between the cleat and your foot, insulating distance.


I wear a 48Eu in Sidi and wore a 48 in my old Giro and Shimano shoes. I traced my foot like the 45NRTH website said and had to buy the largest size they make, 50Eu. I am at the tail end of that measurement with only a few MM to spare, so I will be curious to see how they fit. I'm thinking only a thin pair of woolies are going to fit.

How does the BOA work for you? I saw one review that said the BOA couldn't cinch tight enough because of the shoe's bulk.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Arebee said:


> I wear a 48Eu in Sidi and wore a 48 in my old Giro and Shimano shoes. I traced my foot like the 45NRTH website said and had to buy the largest size they make, 50Eu. I am at the tail end of that measurement with only a few MM to spare, so I will be curious to see how they fit. I'm thinking only a thin pair of woolies are going to fit.
> 
> How does the BOA work for you? I saw one review that said the BOA couldn't cinch tight enough because of the shoe's bulk.


I have the previous generation, it's not a true BOA, but it doesn't cinch super well, and there's nowhere to put the laces, which becomes an issue when it's warmer and you're not wearing something over the boot. That's not the biggest issue in the world, but frustrating that there'd be that large of an oversight. I kind of use the velcro strap and wrap the laces around, but it's a little ghetto. I find that I have to pack the tongue down a bunch and make sure it's not hanging up on anything. If I don't, then they loosen up or my leggings pull out. With that in mind, they work, although the nowhere-to-put-the-laces is retarded. At least on my wolfgars, there's two little velcro spots where you attach the laces and then put the strap across. With both of these, the laces and strap are at least good enough, the shoes are bulky and stiff, but I had some old Lake 302s and the neoprene velcro cuff was just a horrible system. At least the cuff-strap on the wolfgars and wolfhammers works as intended. I think the current generation wolfhammers are a lot closer to where they should be, but it really begs the question of the previous generation and why those were so bad, almost like they were half-assing winter shoes. I think winter shoes are being taken far more serious by all of the companies now though and there's a much better focus by all of them on stuff that actually works. I wear around a 10.5, sometimes 11, in men's. I do run a little wide. I got the wolfhammers in 48 and they are not too large. I have sheep-skin insoles (with wool) in place of the stock insoles. When you do things like a silk liner shock, vapor barrier, then wool sock on the outside, space goes away pretty fast. I got my wolfgars in 48 and I feel I actually have a little more room in those, I built the footbed up one layer with neoprene and I get a little more free space, but that's good IMO because they are even less flexible and I want a little space to be able to use a chem foot-heater or even two. I haven't had to go that extreme, but it's nice to have the option. My standard from now on is at least 2 sizes bigger than normal for winter cycling shoes. Just one size up doesn't cut it and you can almost always use more insulation between the bottom of the foot and the cleat (heatsink) IMO.

This is a good picture, you can see where the little velcro tab is, but if you put it there and then put the strap over it, you don't have enough velcro real-estate securing the strap, so the strap tends to come off fairly easily when using it like this. Putting the velcro tab under the strap is not a great solution. I figure they didn't really know what to do with the "laces" when they designed the boot. Despite all of this, these are still an evolutionary upgrade to my first winter boots, the Lake 302s, those were really terrible. But again, the current generation wolfhammers should be significantly better.


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## Alan Bikes (Sep 25, 2020)

Windproof lobster-claw style cover for gloves during riding in winter is a must. Apart from that winter jackets with proper shoes is Important too


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## Arebee (Sep 13, 2012)

Jayem said:


> I have the previous generation, it's not a true BOA, but it doesn't cinch super well, and there's nowhere to put the laces, which becomes an issue when it's warmer and you're not wearing something over the boot. That's not the biggest issue in the world, but frustrating that there'd be that large of an oversight. I kind of use the velcro strap and wrap the laces around, but it's a little ghetto. I find that I have to pack the tongue down a bunch and make sure it's not hanging up on anything. If I don't, then they loosen up or my leggings pull out. With that in mind, they work, although the nowhere-to-put-the-laces is retarded. At least on my wolfgars, there's two little velcro spots where you attach the laces and then put the strap across. With both of these, the laces and strap are at least good enough, the shoes are bulky and stiff, but I had some old Lake 302s and the neoprene velcro cuff was just a horrible system. At least the cuff-strap on the wolfgars and wolfhammers works as intended. I think the current generation wolfhammers are a lot closer to where they should be, but it really begs the question of the previous generation and why those were so bad, almost like they were half-assing winter shoes. I think winter shoes are being taken far more serious by all of the companies now though and there's a much better focus by all of them on stuff that actually works. I wear around a 10.5, sometimes 11, in men's. I do run a little wide. I got the wolfhammers in 48 and they are not too large. I have sheep-skin insoles (with wool) in place of the stock insoles. When you do things like a silk liner shock, vapor barrier, then wool sock on the outside, space goes away pretty fast. I got my wolfgars in 48 and I feel I actually have a little more room in those, I built the footbed up one layer with neoprene and I get a little more free space, but that's good IMO because they are even less flexible and I want a little space to be able to use a chem foot-heater or even two. I haven't had to go that extreme, but it's nice to have the option. My standard from now on is at least 2 sizes bigger than normal for winter cycling shoes. Just one size up doesn't cut it and you can almost always use more insulation between the bottom of the foot and the cleat (heatsink) IMO.
> 
> This is a good picture, you can see where the little velcro tab is, but if you put it there and then put the strap over it, you don't have enough velcro real-estate securing the strap, so the strap tends to come off fairly easily when using it like this. Putting the velcro tab under the strap is not a great solution. I figure they didn't really know what to do with the "laces" when they designed the boot. Despite all of this, these are still an evolutionary upgrade to my first winter boots, the Lake 302s, those were really terrible. But again, the current generation wolfhammers should be significantly better.


OK, gotcha. I see how that lacing system would be a bear to cinch tightly. It's doesn't look like a true BOA system like on the 2020 version.

I went back to re-read the reviews and both reviews which mention the crappy BOA system also mention issues with the Velcro strap. The 2020 version does not have a Velcro strap, so I'm feeling less concerned about that. Greatly appreciate the input.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

Jayem, how bulky are those Wiggy's socks? They look awesome, but I don't think I can fit them into my current boots. I definitely can squeeze them into my pac boots for what little ice fishing I still do. They look amazing for that. 

Have you seen the pogies in person? They look good, price is right, and made in the USA to boot. My only worry is no bar end cap, so they may roll a bit. Some of those sleeping bags look nice too, and not crazy expensive.


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## Jingjing (Nov 17, 2020)

Thank you


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## CycleKrieg (Dec 19, 2013)

Arebee said:


> OK, gotcha. I see how that lacing system would be a bear to cinch tightly. It's doesn't look like a true BOA system like on the 2020 version.


The 1st gen 45NRTH boots where the best, with the inner boot and the wrap. Wish they would just bring those back.

Last year a lot of locals started switching to Columbia boots. They have ones with Omni-heat that are waterproof/insulated with sort of waffle pattern bottom that plays nice with flat pedals.


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## Igotsoul4u (May 11, 2019)

I have been very impressed with Fox River socks. I used them for skiing last year and they were so good I forgot I was wearing them.


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## Igotsoul4u (May 11, 2019)

What do you guys do for sore throats? I feel like my throat and sinuses get shredded riding in weather below 45 degrees.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Igotsoul4u said:


> What do you guys do for sore throats? I feel like my throat and sinuses get shredded riding in weather below 45 degrees.


I never get this, but I do get the nose freezing up thing when it gets down into the 0's...I have a full face ski mask for when it gets that cold here...which is like once every 10 years


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## CycleKrieg (Dec 19, 2013)

Igotsoul4u said:


> What do you guys do for sore throats? I feel like my throat and sinuses get shredded riding in weather below 45 degrees.


Hot Damn!, Fireball or Crown Royal Apple. Dosage: 1 swig every 5 miles, continue as needed.


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## Arebee (Sep 13, 2012)

Jayem said:


> I wear around a 10.5, sometimes 11, in men's. I do run a little wide. I got the wolfhammers in 48 and they are not too large. I have sheep-skin insoles (with wool) in place of the stock insoles. When you do things like a silk liner shock, vapor barrier, then wool sock on the outside, space goes away pretty fast. I got my wolfgars in 48 and I feel I actually have a little more room in those, I built the footbed up one layer with neoprene and I get a little more free space, but that's good IMO because they are even less flexible and I want a little space to be able to use a chem foot-heater or even two. I haven't had to go that extreme, but it's nice to have the option. My standard from now on is at least 2 sizes bigger than normal for winter cycling shoes. Just one size up doesn't cut it and you can almost always use more insulation between the bottom of the foot and the cleat (heatsink) IMO.


I had to bring back the 50s because they were just too big. As I mentioned, I traced and measured my foot like the 45NRTH website instructed and my feet were swimming in the recommended size 50. I added another pair of insoles and put on an extra pair of socks and they were still big. I compared the insoles in my SIDI size 48 and compared them to the 45NRTH insoles and the SIDIs were about 1/2" shorter. So, I brought them back and ordered the 48s.

First impression was that they are huge freaking shoes! They seem very well built with a solid sole that will provide a decent grip on snow covered roots and rocks. Cleat position looks to be closer to the instep which will be good for such a big shoe. The liner is soft and very comfortable like the snow boots you had as a kid! I can tell they will be very warm. I couldn't get a good gauge on the BOA because the boots were so big. I tightened the BOA to the max and my ankles were still swimming, even with two pairs of socks and my thermal bike pants tucked in.

If the 48s fit like I expect them to I think I'm going to be very happy with them.


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## almazing (Jul 26, 2017)

My absolute favorites now are Black Diamond's First Light Hybrid Jacket and Vest.

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/first-light-hybrid-vest-mens-APZV42_cfg.html

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/first-light-hybrid-hoody-APOL09_cfg.html

The front is insulated and windproof, while the back and sides are breathable merino wool blend. It provides both warmth and breathability simultaneously. The vest, I wear between 35-45F with a long sleeve under. And the hoody I wear under 35F with a short sleeve base. The colder it gets, the warmer the base layer I'll wear.

I run hot and sweat a lot in the cold. With practically all 'active' and 'technical' wear(with the exception of these 2) I find myself trapping moisture within the shell. Eventually, that sweat freezes and I'm even colder than before. Or it just feels like a sauna in there and I'm uncomfortably hot.

I'm surprised 'MTB specific' clothing brands haven't caught on to similar styles of outerwear. It's a physically intensive sport and wicking and evaporating perspiration should be top priority to maintain a comfortable core temperature.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

fly4130 said:


> Jayem, how bulky are those Wiggy's socks? They look awesome, but I don't think I can fit them into my current boots. I definitely can squeeze them into my pac boots for what little ice fishing I still do. They look amazing for that.
> 
> Have you seen the pogies in person? They look good, price is right, and made in the USA to boot. My only worry is no bar end cap, so they may roll a bit. Some of those sleeping bags look nice too, and not crazy expensive.


Well, kind of like a thick sock, it's hard conveying it exactly. Socks can get pretty damn thick and I'd call the liner "medium weight" in that regard, but my description is kind of arbitrary. I'm using a silk liner, then the vapor barrier, then the wiggy's liners, that all takes up some real-estate for sure. IME, it's hard to buy winter boots too large, because you can build up the sole with felt, neoprene, sheep skin and other insoles and essentially "fit them" to your feet. The boots end up pretty big, but having all that space is great IME. I'm about 45 in regular shoes and my winter riding boots are 48.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

almazing said:


> I run hot and sweat a lot in the cold. With practically all 'active' and 'technical' wear(with the exception of these 2) I find myself trapping moisture within the shell. Eventually, that sweat freezes and I'm even colder than before. Or it just feels like a sauna in there and I'm uncomfortably hot.
> 
> I'm surprised 'MTB specific' clothing brands haven't caught on to similar styles of outerwear. It's a physically intensive sport and wicking and evaporating perspiration should be top priority to maintain a comfortable core temperature.


Most people incorrectly assume they need waterproof or fairly heavily insulated stuff for riding, or they put on too many layers, which just traps all kinds of moisture and soaks them. If one is really riding in significant heavy rain, you're going to get soaked inside no matter what kind of "waterproof" layer you have on the outside. Short of rubberized plastic (which will make your sweat soak you), all of those "waterproof but breathable" fabrics will get overwhelmed by heavy rain. In more moderate conditions, you can still get pretty soaked from internal sweat, leaking around seams and so on, but the fabric at least provides a decent barrier where you are trapping some heat and not just constantly losing it to heat conduction. Sometimes these kinds of layers are nice for wind when you have something beneath, because they are so poor at being "breathable", but you gotta match it to your exertion level.

So hard "shells" are almost always out, they have some limited use in the waterproof situations, but when the rain is lighter or it's warmer, you don't get "cooled" enough by the rain to prevent serious sweat build-up underneath the layer. Breathable "soft" layers are almost always where it's at and the very best stuff usually has a wind-blocking front like you have found. We wear pants and tops that are like this much of the time in the winter.


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## terpsmandan (Oct 19, 2020)

I was surprised that I did not need as many layers as I thought I would need. Went out last Wednesday and it was in the 20's. I have a Rockbros skull cap from Amazon that fits under the helmet. For my top I wear a long sleeve dry fit t-shirt with a shirt over that and a long sleeve golf wind shirt. Running tights and shorts with inbike windproof winter cycling gloves. If it's in the 30's, I will a sweat a little and I just make sure that I dry the gloves with a hair dryer so they don't get funky. Looking forward to this winter. Intend to keep riding as long as there isn't any snow here in WNY.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

mikesee said:


> It still amazes me that they exist. Such a specialized product, with such a limited market.
> 
> They're available in black this year. I may snag a pair and just stick them on a shelf to have as backups for 10 years from now. They're that good.


PSA: the Trek superstore has the GRAY version on sale for $150 (sale can't be combined with the 20% BF code).

Regular sellers only have black, so I assume gray was last year color and they have them left and blow them out now.

To each their own, but i dislike black since that warms up when the sun shines (when it is warmer anyway)

BTW, this thread inc. Mike's links above is one of the best for winter cycling. If nothing else, it is a good starting point. I've been dabbling around the last winters gradually improving from the cheapest Walmart stuff to more appropriate apparel. This winter will be great!


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## Arebee (Sep 13, 2012)

My Wolvhammers got their first real test yesterday, as the temp was 16 degrees Fahrenheit at the start of our ride. I wore two layers of thin socks and my feet stayed comfortably warm for 2+ hours. My Pearl Izumi lobster gloves did great too. My fingers were cold for the first 10-15 minutes from the parking lot pre-ride, but warmed up well once my blood got pumping.


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## CycleKrieg (Dec 19, 2013)

Arebee said:


> My Wolvhammers got their first real test yesterday, as the temp was 16 degrees Fahrenheit at the start of our ride.


Last night, my ride started at -1 F. It went down from there. The 1st gen Wolvhammers with one layer of wool socks were nice and toasty.


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## nOOky (May 13, 2008)

I cross over a lot with my running gear. Trail running in winter is similar to fat biking, slow and mainly for fun, and all about grip. I typically try to dress so that I don't have to bring a lot of extra gear to stay comfortable, as I'm usually only out for 2-3 hours in the cold.

When it's really cold i.e. below 20F I wear a stretch merino wool upper base layer, I have a couple Ice Breaker wool base layers (200) and one Smartwool. I'll throw a wind-proof running pullover over that, and lastly a packable wind-proof jacket over that. Usually the running jacket has a breathable back. I also have two different packable outer layers, a Patagonia Houdini, and an Outdoor Research Helium II. I like being able to take that outer layer off and stow it, although the helium II is more substantial and therefor heavier.

I have the OMW pants which my LBS had for $125 on the clearance rack already. I'll wear just those around freezing, add a medium base layer bottom above 20F, and below that I wear a pair of winter cycling tights with pad usually a pair of Castelli's I have that are good to about 35F by themselves. Never more than two bottom layers, I just increase the thickness of the base layer.

For socks I always wear merino wool hiking socks, ideally crew or taller. I have various brands, Wigwam, Darn Tough, etc. and I picked up a pair of OMW boots a few weeks ago too so I use those. My feet have been fine so far.

I have various beanies including wind-proof ones and a wind-proof balaclava from PI if I need two thin layers on my head. I bought a cheaper Giro helmet one size too big so I can run a heavier head covering if needed.

On my hands I wear PI lobster mittens, I carry Craft convertible gloves if my hands get warm, and for real cold I have a set of heavy Giordin mittens from the local farm and barn store. My hands never get cold enough for pogies, most times I am not wearing anything on them when it's above 20F.

I always carry a set of hand warmers that could go in my boots above my toes or in my gloves, a multi-tool, my phone, and a buff. My rides are different from my runs in the cold. Riding it's harder to keep the feet and hands warm as they are not getting a lot of blood flowing through them as they are basically static. Running I can wear summer shoes and as long as they stay dry, my feet are warm enough in Darn Tough merino wool hiker socks.

Biking has the added element of more air flowing over your body, finding the cracks in your apparel armor, as you push through it faster. One reason I prefer fat slow biking over road riding, road riding below 32F is just so damn cold. Slow fat biking you're working hard just to 7 MPH so staying warmer is a bit easier.


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