# Talk me out of building a 26er?



## JackOfDiamonds (Apr 17, 2020)

I have a frame shop and I can make a frame in a couple days. I'm thinking about building a mountain bike. 

I transitioned from road bikes, to fat biking in the winter, and now my coworkers have convinced me to start mountain biking. So I was going to buy a hardtail for riding mellow trails. But bikes are still kinda hard to get, and I'm not liking the prices. So I decided I would build a frame and scrounge parts.

The problem with my idea is that parts for 29ers are not very easy to scrounge either. I'm kind a bowled over at prices for 29-inch wheels and forks. But it's very easy to scrounge old 26er parts. My local co-op has multiple freshly-rebuilt roxshox 26-inch suspension forks. 

What if I built a bike with "modern geometry" but uses 26-inch wheels? It would be sort of like one of those mini-velo roadbikes with undersize wheels, not a crappy early-2000s-geometry 26er, it would just have 26-inch wheels. Crazy?

What's the 26-inch tire scene like nowadays?


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## tjchad (Aug 15, 2009)

I don't think it's crazy but I ride a Chromag Stylus from 2015... it's a 26er. 2015 Stylus


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## fuzz_muffin (Dec 24, 2017)

never mind


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

I can't do it as 75% of my bikes are 26's


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

Mine has that crappy old geometry, and only 1 gear, but it's still a ton of fun...









Tires are 26x21. Panarace FireXCPro setup tubeless.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

Don’t do it bro. Build a 36er.


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## Danhikeski (Jun 30, 2021)

I built a 26er on a 2008 surly 1x1 this past winter. Do it! I just put the fork on , 3 rides ago, so much better on my wrists! I’m loving this bike. Don’t let “big bike” kill the 26er!!!


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## donR (11 mo ago)

I think its a good idea if there is a cost benefit. I still use my 26er for riding to work and only retired it from XC work a couple of years ago. I also have a couple of extra small 26ers that my kids ride. 

Try to put in a fork with a longer fork length/extra travel, as that alone will make the bike a lot slacker and more stable. I think that's where a lot of modern mtb bikes get there stablity. Take DH bikes for example. Bigger tires will also help.

However, if you can afford it, 27.5 or 29 is the way to go.


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## Catmandoo (Dec 20, 2018)

I recently sold my '04 Stumpjumper FS 26" bike. It was heavy and last 2 times I rode it, it just felt like a slug bike. Really, really slow. My 29'ers are much quicker and handle almost as well, I had to ask myself why I was keeping it. So I unloaded it, dont miss it either.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Build two 29 frames. Sell one.


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

Build a 29/26 mullet and then be a d!ck about your wheel size.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

If you think you will enjoy riding it, build it. I'm not a 26er or HT fan but many do love them. The only issue is that getting tires and good tubeless rims may be an issue. That would be a deal-killer for me. In my 26er days, I usually ran Nobby Nics and Mavic XM819 rims. You may want to research the availability of decent tires and rims.


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## AgentX (Jul 11, 2005)

Never mind.


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## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

I recently mulleted a 27.5 banshee spitfire by going 26” rear wheel (as mentioned in some other thread, but relevant here). The frame has a flip chip to accommodate this swap, as specified by Keith the company owner. In fact their website provides geometry for 27 and 26 setups. Point being, there is at least one manufacturer out there who supports modern geo with 26ers. All wheel sizes have tradeoffs… i like em all.


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## JackOfDiamonds (Apr 17, 2020)

Catmandoo said:


> I recently sold my '04 Stumpjumper FS 26" bike. It was heavy and last 2 times I rode it, it just felt like a slug bike. Really, really slow. My 29'ers are much quicker and handle almost as well, I had to ask myself why I was keeping it. So I unloaded it, dont miss it either.


I believe you but id other things are equal a 26 should be actually lighter, right?


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## JPL65 (Jul 20, 2008)

All my mountain bikes are 26", I like them. They accelerate fast and are nimble. Are they as race worthy as a 29er, maybe not[maybe] but they sure are alot of fun.


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## Loll (May 2, 2006)

Build a 26” dirt jumper. When you are tired of it put a 27.5 front wheel and fork to mullet it. Do tapered headtube though.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

Build it up so it can fit 26 or 27.5 just to have options.


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## justwan naride (Oct 13, 2008)

My personal opinion is that 26ers are the most fun on pumptrack-like flow trails. Not the fastest, but certainly more fun than 27.5/29. It's like you "feel" the ground more with the smaller wheels, which is good on such trails. On more bumpy terrain they require more effort, esp. if the incline doesn't grant you some free momentum. For covering long distances they also feel less efficient than the bigger wheelsizes. 

If possible, you could make it 27.5 compatible so it can work with say 140mm 26" fork or a 120mm 27.5 one. Something along these lines.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

<morgan freeman pointing up meme>
I agree with @justwan naride. While 26 inch wheels are perfectly capable of doing everything and still likely hold the record for most years doing so they are just not as good when the trails turn chunky. If you really want to build a 26er then that Stylus clone would be very cool. Unless you build a pure dirt jumper I would not limit the clearance to ONLY 26. FWIW, I ride a dirt jumper (26, obs), a 26 fat/29 plus steel hardtail, and a 27.5 trail/mini all-mountain full suspension. A little bit of everything and they all get it done well in their respective use-cases.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

I am in the middle of building a 26er with modern-ish geo with a custom frame from Marino (65 deg hta, 415mm chainstays, 465mm reach) to be a fun dick around bike. I personally had no trouble finding wheels or tires. Now suspension forks on the other hand aren't as easy but you can run 27.5in fork.

Edit: I don't think I would have 26in bike as my only mtb bike unless I only rode bike park or flow trails or skatepark though.


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## dllawson819 (Feb 22, 2019)

Funoutside said:


> Build it up so it can fit 26 or 27.5 just to have options.


This!


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

JackOfDiamonds said:


> I have a frame shop and I can make a frame in a couple days. I'm thinking about building a mountain bike.
> 
> I transitioned from road bikes, to fat biking in the winter, and now my coworkers have convinced me to start mountain biking. So I was going to buy a hardtail for riding mellow trails. But bikes are still kinda hard to get, and I'm not liking the prices. So I decided I would build a frame and scrounge parts.
> 
> ...


I did the same as you, from road bikes to fat bikes. I'm profoundly jealous of your frame shop, though, I'm not to that level yet! I do everything except face and build frames, one day I'm hoping. 

I don't see any reason at all to build a hard tail mtb if you're a fat biker. Especially a 26. Having converted from 10k miles of road riding to a 4.8" fat bike that I rode year round in Colorado, then having it fail after 1500 miles and replacing it with a full squish, then going through two more full squishes before finding my Alpha Star Glorious Trail Sled, then building a stack of new-school hyper-aggressive hard tails for friends and family, I can tell you this. The reason fat bikes died is because 29ers with rad tires have 90% of the traction of a fat bike with about 60% of the rolling resistance. That's it. A 26er has 50% of the traction as a fat bike, so you'll go a little faster and crash a lot more. 26ers also labor under technical conditions simply because they fall into more holes than 29er/fat bikes do. Don't build a 26er unless you've levelled up your fat bike game on extreme terrain, because what used to be nothing terrain is going to be crash terrain on a 26er.

I'm curious why you need a skinny bike. Are you riding with your friends and finding they are much faster than you? If you're going that fast on a 26 without advanced mtb handling skills you're gonna be in hella danger. Fat bikes rule, stay on it! Anyway, most fat bikes fit 29+ tires so just build a slightly different new wheelset and now it's not a fat bike.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

I actually really want a line of aggressive geometry 20", 24", and 26" hardtails to build for my and other folk's kids.


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## Neuner (Feb 14, 2005)

Funoutside said:


> Build it up so it can fit 26 or 27.5 just to have options.


I also second this along with the comment about using a tapered or straight 1.5" head. Then, you're able to fit whatever you want.

Only depends on what you want. You shouldn't care what the others think. I've tried 27.5 and 29 and a 26 fits me better so it's what I prefer. My son who is a young teen and already 5'11" has a 29" and loves it. My neighbor, about my height, has a 29" and does great on straight-aways but I smoke him on berms, twisty and technical, so also review what you ride the most.

They get jealous because I get stopped a lot by other bikers with really positive comments about my old school. My latest is an absolute blast. Surprisingly easy to dig in and climb and bombs the downhills with it's slack.


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## JackOfDiamonds (Apr 17, 2020)

> I'm curious why you need a skinny bike.


I guess I don't. It's just peer pressure LOL. Nobody I know rides fat bikes year-round. 

My fat bike is also a bikesdirect gem that is just sorta cheap and heavy, and rigid. I put better tires on it, but it's not worth buying a suspension fork for it it otherwise dumping money into it. I would be better off buying/building another bike than upgrading. And I don't need 2 fat bikes at any rate, so it's between selling this fat bike and getting a better fat bike, or just keep the cheap fat bike for winter and get a MTB for summer.

My fatty is my sport utility bike and 90% of its use is pulling around a kid trailer or moseying around the neighborhood trails. It actually works pretty good for that except being a pain to transport. I took it to the mountain XC trails like one time and it worked fine as long as I stayed on the smooth XC trails but when it got bumpier or faster, I had to slow down a lot due to the tire-bounce factor and wrist punishment. That's why I was thinking if I got a hardtail with 120mm fork or something, it could just replace the fat bike completely for all uses except for winter, which I usually ski in the winter now anyway. 

You completely shattered all my plans by analogizing to fat bikes though so I am going to go think deeply in the corner for a while now.


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## JackOfDiamonds (Apr 17, 2020)

thomcom said:


> I actually really want a line of aggressive geometry 20", 24", and 26" hardtails to build for my and other folk's kids.


Most of the non-road frames I have built have been for my kids. It's too easy to find good adult frames to bother building frames for me. But kids bikes is a technological wasteland. It's getting better though; there are some good kids bikes out there now, if you have deep pockets, and time to wait for them to be in stock.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

JackOfDiamonds said:


> Most of the non-road frames I have built have been for my kids. It's too easy to find good adult frames to bother building frames for me. But kids bikes is a technological wasteland. It's getting better though; there are some good kids bikes out there now, if you have deep pockets, and time to wait for them to be in stock.


Indeed! TrailCraft and many others. I'm much more interested in buying kids frames and putting parts on myself than paying somebody else to do it and not loving every part. How many kids you got? Where do you live?


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

Mine too. I was a roadie, but started eyeballing fat bikes back in 2014 or so. My wife bought me a Mongoose Dolomite from wal-mart for Xmas 2012 for $190. I fell instantly in love and replaced every part until the rear axle bent and turned out to be hard to replace. I got a Motobecane Boris but didn't quite like it, replaced it with a Motobecane Night Train Bullet and rode that for a long, long way, on every form of trail and every speed. The chainstay broke two years ago which lead me on a full squish adventure which I feel I'm at the end of. BD accepted a warranty return immediately, and I finally sent the frame back to them last month. They say it will be a few months to get a replacement from the manufacturer.

I've got a Bluto shock here that needs service (1500 miles with no service?) I'll sell you pretty cheap. It'll cure the arm pump. The other issue with fat bikes and trail riding is you need to lower your tire pressure, dependent on diameter, down to about 8 psi for positive traction and impact absorption. It'll slow you down another 20% but feels super good - that's when you know you're on a fat bike on the trail. Your skinny friends will have slightly less overall fatigue but you will absolutely crush them on all descends and level-to-downhill tech sections. I can talk fat bikes all day. All bikes, really. I've got a couple of Bullseye Monster type bikes as well, steel 170mm fat bikes, they're actually super nice. BD does not make them anymore. I won't be buying another BD bike for a while, they've got stack/reach horribly wrong and need to update geometries across the board to match the current: XC/Trail/Enduro design system.

There are some really cheap fat forks you can get on eBay/AliExpress like the BOLANY that are light and have low stiction. Good but not great. I would put one of those on your bike and a 2 degree angleset if it has a 44mm head tube or a 1 degree if 34mm, lower tire pressure to 8psi front 11 psi back, and crush all of your peers.
<3


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## abeckstead (Feb 29, 2012)

Arguably the fastest/quickest bike I've owned during my years of serious MTB. 2011 26" wheeled Giant Trance, still got some techy climbing PR's I set on it that I can't beat...! What really irks me quite a bit is I've actually _tried_ multiple times to beat them lol 


I would totally ride a modern geo f/s 26" bike as a fun bike... seems there is nothing though.

Just throwing the pic in because it literally popped up in my "memories from 10 years ago today".


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## Catmandoo (Dec 20, 2018)

JackOfDiamonds said:


> I believe you but id other things are equal a 26 should be actually lighter, right?


Barely lighter. Really its a very slight less amount of rim, plus shorter and lighter spokes. So many other things can change the equation. Rolling speed is greater on a 29 and that probably more then makes up for any slight weight increase. As well, 29 rolls over obstacles better.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

The rim will be less than 100g lighter. I recently built 20" wheels with the lightest Alienation Mischief rims I could possibly find, 280g each. Spoke weight saving will be basically 26/29ths of the weight of 29er spokes, which for plain spokes is I think 8g/spoke, so maybe 40g saved. Check out the weight tables for the DHR II at Maxxis: Minion DHR II Almost the same. There'll also be some kind of centrifugal inertia weight savings simply by moving the rim closer to the hub, but that is probably exactly washed out by the difference in required wheel rotation to have the same ground speed. Plus lower traction and harsher bump absorption, and the tendency to get stuck at a higher rate. Those are my worst injuries short of leaving the trail at speed, when my bike just stops rolling.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Eric F said:


> Mine has that crappy old geometry, and only 1 gear, but it's still a ton of fun...
> View attachment 1988783
> 
> 
> Tires are 26x21. Panarace FireXCPro setup tubeless.





Catmandoo said:


> Barely lighter. Really its a very slight less amount of rim, plus shorter and lighter spokes. So many other things can change the equation. Rolling speed is greater on a 29 and that probably more then makes up for any slight weight increase. As well, 29 rolls over obstacles better.


There's a DH race I do where I'm quicker on a 26. The 29 feels like driving a truck through the crux sections, where the race is won or lost. The 26 is much more nimble and flickable.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

JackOfDiamonds said:


> I have a frame shop and I can make a frame in a couple days. I'm thinking about building a mountain bike.
> 
> I transitioned from road bikes, to fat biking in the winter, and now my coworkers have convinced me to start mountain biking. So I was going to buy a hardtail for riding mellow trails. But bikes are still kinda hard to get, and I'm not liking the prices. So I decided I would build a frame and scrounge parts.
> 
> ...


So a 26" bike with a long top tube (24"+), 64 head and 76 degree seat angle? I say do it! 

If you made it a posted the pics, I would sell you my 26" Light carbon rims (hope hubs) with 20 pairs of Schwalbe Han Dampf tires for a low price!


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

Vespasianus said:


> So a 26" bike with a long top tube (24"+), 64 head and 76 degree seat angle? I say do it!
> 
> If you made it a posted the pics, I would sell you my 26" Light carbon rims (hope hubs) with 20 pairs of Schwalbe Han Dampf tires for a low price!


I want this for my ~5' tall kids.


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## JackOfDiamonds (Apr 17, 2020)

Vespasianus said:


> So a 26" bike with a long top tube (24"+), 64 head and 76 degree seat angle? I say do it!
> 
> If you made it a posted the pics, I would sell you my 26" Light carbon rims (hope hubs) with 20 pairs of Schwalbe Han Dampf tires for a low price!


I'd say deal but I need the wheels before building the frame


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Vespasianus said:


> So a 26" bike with a long top tube (24"+), 64 head and 76 degree seat angle? I say do it!
> 
> If you made it a posted the pics, I would sell you my 26" Light carbon rims (hope hubs) with 20 pairs of Schwalbe Han Dampf tires for a low price!


I designed this 14 years ago. 24tt, 66ht,74st and 13.25bb. Gearing is 33tX9. I love this bike.


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## rjrodney (Apr 17, 2008)

Start with the fork. That’s gonna be the death 26. Maybe best to build around a 27.5 fork.


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## RETROROCKS (Sep 25, 2004)

JackOfDiamonds said:


> I have a frame shop and I can make a frame in a couple days. I'm thinking about building a mountain bike.
> 
> I transitioned from road bikes, to fat biking in the winter, and now my coworkers have convinced me to start mountain biking. So I was going to buy a hardtail for riding mellow trails. But bikes are still kinda hard to get, and I'm not liking the prices. So I decided I would build a frame and scrounge parts.
> 
> ...


I just picked this up, a 26er ragley blue pig! If you can, I highly recommend building a steel hardtail, the ride is sooo much better!!


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

There's nothing wrong with 26'ers.


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## AgentX (Jul 11, 2005)

Scott2MTB said:


> Build a 29/26 mullet and then be a d!ck about your wheel size.


I actually rode my Evil Sovereign with a rigid fork as a 29/26 mullet; it preserved the intended geometry and gave a good ride, and the 29er fit the shorter 26" suspension-corrected fork just fine.

I still just replaced that Sovereign with a Pipedream because the old geometry was really really awkward after finally moving on to more modern bikes after a 15-year time warp I was living in.

Don't much see the point in starting new with a 26" bike except to be deliberately weird about stuff. Why bother? 27.5 is pretty much just as nimble while making for easy tire choices, rim choices, and fork choices.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I recently came into a pile of high quality "last of the 26 inch era" parts. Was thinking about building a DJ bike. Any dirt jump frames out there for less than $300?


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