# Square Taper Crank bolts coming loose, remedy?



## ncj01 (Jan 13, 2004)

I have a new phil wood bb, with new WI eno cranks.

I have followed the directions, torquing to 30ft pounds, riding, then re-torquing to 30ft pounds...at which point its supposed to be "done" you just leave it alone and ride.

However, my bolts come loose each ride. I mean like it takes a couple FULL REVOLUTIONS to re-snug them after each longer ride.

Remedy? I'm thinking Red Loctite. So far, I've used a light coat of grease on the threads.

Is the solution to clean the threads and locktite them?

The issue has me annoyed enough to where I'm considering going with a standard triple crankset converted to SS (outboard bearings, thru-axle, etc). Only problems are: 1) i just spent untold amounts buying new crankset(s) and Phil Wood BB's... and 2) I MUST have a 54mm chainline.


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

Did the crank arms also come loose?


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## ncj01 (Jan 13, 2004)

aka brad said:


> Did the crank arms also come loose?


Not yet.

They would in time though.

My buddy with the same cranks, has his come loose, I think he's about to wallow his out...which Mine risk doing on longer rides if I don't carry a tool.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

I don't know if it's a "super' good idea, but have you thought about lock-washers?


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## pg3317 (Nov 15, 2009)

"So far, I've used a light coat of grease on the threads."



Clean the threads and skip the grease.


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## joeyjoejoe (Sep 16, 2008)

I use the blue locktite and haven't had the crank bolts come loose yet.


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

joeyjoejoe said:


> I use the blue locktite and haven't had the crank bolts come loose yet.


 I've actually lost a couple of crank bolts from my BMX cranks. It not the same thing as the arms clamp on and are only used to load the bearings, but they cost almost $5.00 @! Anyway, I added some blue loctite to the bolt this time and hopefully it will stay put.


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## mtbdee (Jan 31, 2005)

I still check my square taper bolts every now and then, even with blue loctite on the threads. The bolts will usually move a hair, but nothing close to the full turns you are describing. Try the blue loctite route and see if it doesn't get any better before ditching the Phil BBs for external. Good luck!


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## jl (Feb 23, 2004)

pg3317 said:


> "So far, I've used a light coat of grease on the threads."
> Clean the threads and skip the grease.


Light coat on the spindles, none on the bolts. But I thought that was last week's thread.


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## Plum (Sep 14, 2004)

Clean the threads, use blue loctite. If they come loose after blue loctite (apply and wait at least overnight), take them off and sell them before they wallow out. If your bolts are loosening, the cranks are too, retorquing every ride will severly shorten their life..

Plum


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

Use anti seize on the crank bb interface and threads. Snug them down with steel bolts to the appropriate torque then ride down hte street and back. Retorque if needed. Now go out and ride. You should not require locktite here. If the bolts keep coming loose try green locktite on the threads.


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

crux said:


> Use anti seize on the crank bb interface and threads. Snug them down with steel bolts to the appropriate torque then ride down hte street and back. Retorque if needed. Now go out and ride. You should not require locktite here. If the bolts keep coming loose try green locktite on the threads.


Yeah Nate, put down the red loctite!  That's going overboard here!

I know ol' Sheldon Brown says you can mix ISO and JIS tapered components, but I was curious if you have a ISO tapered Phil Wood BB there. (I assume you are using a crank that is JIS taper)

Just a thought......

Also, I torque mine down to 35ft/lbs. Never have an issue.

Good luck!


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## ncj01 (Jan 13, 2004)

Guitar Ted said:


> Yeah Nate, put down the red loctite!  That's going overboard here!
> 
> I know ol' Sheldon Brown says you can mix ISO and JIS tapered components, but I was curious if you have a ISO tapered Phil Wood BB there. (I assume you are using a crank that is JIS taper)
> 
> ...


it's a PH JIS standard...and a WI Eno crankset....

I never had problems on the Dorthy, so it's weird to me that I'm having issues now.

I will:
*clean threads very well
*apply Blue locktite
*torque to low 30's ft-lbs's
*hope for the best

This setup is going both on my SS and my Rohhly equiped bikes...so i want no issues of anykind...


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

crux said:


> If the bolts keep coming loose try green locktite on the threads.


Yeah that'll work out great - the bolts won't come loose even if you want them to. The locktite site says "apply heat to remove".
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/questions.asp?answerme=125#cat125

If you gotta use Locktite, hit the local auto parts store for some blue 242.
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=10&subid=48&plid=153


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

did you get the right size tapering and cranks that go with that taper size? this happend to me because the taper was to small for the crank arm taper


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

wv_bob said:


> Yeah that'll work out great - the bolts won't come loose even if you want them to. The locktite site says "apply heat to remove".
> http://www.loctiteproducts.com/questions.asp?answerme=125#cat125
> 
> If you gotta use Locktite, hit the local auto parts store for some blue 242.
> http://www.loctiteproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=10&subid=48&plid=153


Oops, yeah don't use green. The stuff I was thinking is not as strong of a bond as blue, but looks as if I stand corrected.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

If all else fails you can use the appropriate length stud . Studs have more clamping force , just screw them in finger tight and install crankarm and nut the stud and torque .


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## ncj01 (Jan 13, 2004)

AZ.MTNS said:


> If all else fails you can use the appropriate length stud . Studs have more clamping force , just screw them in finger tight and install crankarm and nut the stud and torque .


I'm completely confused... I don't know what you mean by this...link? photo'?


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

AZ.MTNS said:


> If all else fails you can use the appropriate length stud . Studs have more clamping force , just screw them in finger tight and install crankarm and nut the stud and torque .


Maybe he's talking about these nutted spindles; lot's a luck with that..

edit.. Okay I think I know what he means; you would be converting a standard bottom bracket to the below style. Buy yourself some threaded stock that screw into the end of the bottom bracket spindle (getting a metric bolt and cutting of the head would be you best bet) and two nuts/ washers of the same size ( you also might want some lock washers). You would end up with a 30mm long stud, threaded on both sides. Now, thread the stud into the end of the bottom bracket spindle. Next install the crank arm, then screw the nut (w/washer) on to the threaded stud that is sticking out from the middle of the crank and torque the nut down to seat and secure the crank arm. I have never heard of this being done before, and there must have been a reason they went away from the nutted end design, who knows, it might work..


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Stud ......


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Stud ......


 Yes, that is a stud. The spindle I showed is also refered to as a threaded spindle stud. The problem with the stud you show is for this to work (listen to me, like I think this would be worth the hassle) you could not use a "stud" as you have shown, as there can not be a gap between the threads; at least not one greater than several mm, or you would run out of thread trying to tighten the crank onto the spindle.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

aka brad said:


> Yes, that is a stud. The spindle I showed is also refered to as a threaded spindle stud. The problem with the stud you show is for this to work (listen to me, like I think this would be worth the hassle) you could not use a "stud" as you have shown, as there can not be a gap between the threads; at least not one greater than several mm, or you would run out of thread trying to tighten the crank onto the spindle.


You are absolutley correct , such studs are available . The clamping force of a stud are higher than a bolt as well as the forces being more evenly distributed . Could be helpful for a stubborn or problematic crankset .


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

They moved away from "studded" spindles because an 8mm allen wrenche is easier to carry that a 15(14?)mm socket wrench....


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

sean salach said:


> They moved away from "studded" spindles because an 8mm allen wrenche is easier to carry that a 15(14?)mm socket wrench....


That and the clearance between the nut and its recess in the crank arm sometimes required the use of custom sockets...major drag.

BTW, remind me to never buy anything from Plum.


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## Andy R (Nov 26, 2008)

AZ.MTNS said:


> You are absolutley correct , such studs are available . The clamping force of a stud are higher than a bolt as well as the forces being more evenly distributed . Could be helpful for a stubborn or problematic crankset .


Surely only insofar as tightening of the nut stretches the stud *without* applying a concurrent twisting load? (as occurs with a machine screw).


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## pg3317 (Nov 15, 2009)

Leave it to us bike geeks to turn a simple question into a long debate. Believe me, I read it all with great enthusiasm, especially now that it's cold and snowy where I live.


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## Plum (Sep 14, 2004)

buddhak said:


> BTW, remind me to never buy anything from Plum.


What'd I do? I suggested he sell them before he damages them, not pawn them off after they're damaged...

Plum


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Andy R said:


> Surely only insofar as tightening of the nut stretches the stud *without* applying a concurrent twisting load? (as occurs with a machine screw).


Winner , correct . :thumbsup:


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