# Broken ebike hubs. Which ones?



## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Hey Gents,

I am curious what hubs you guys have broken on your ebikes, and which ones are holding up well.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Industry Nine freehub bodies are too soft for eMTBs, at least if you're using a Shimano cassette. On my second, and it's not going to last long.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

I had top of the line Bontrager wheel set and that hub suffered catastrophic failure twice. My stock wheel came with DT Swiss hub and that hub has been bullet proof so far! 


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

My 20 year old CK hubs are doing fine with a true 750w capable TS kit mid motor


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

No issues with I9’s. They say it’s approved also.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Streetdoctor said:


> No issues with I9's. They say it's approved also.


After much back and forth with I9 they acknowledge the issue with Shimano HG freehubs and cassettes (which were notoriously hard on alloy freehubs anyway). But less of an issue or a non-issue with XD or Micro Spline freehubs.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

Streetdoctor said:


> No issues with I9's. They say it's approved also.


Are they talking about the new Hydra hubs or all of their hubs?
I'm using the Trail I9 hubs with a good cassette with 3 gears per carrier on
a 1000 W mid-drive kit with no issues so far.
I think the hi POE helps reduce the engagement "clunk".


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## dodger (Feb 10, 2004)

On my analog bike it's DT or nothing for me. Seen far too many freehub failures. But I've got over 4800 miles on the Formula hub on my Commencal Meta Power and it's never hiccuped once. Just starting to get the slightest bearing play and will be time to replace those soon but the freehub has been surprisingly perfect.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

I'm kinda confused why almost all ebikes up to over 5000 bucks are using HG style cassettes.
I never killed a steel HG, but had to replace a few alloy ones on my DT wheels and some other brands I don't remember. And that on normal bikes.
An ebike would kill them even faster.

Wouldn't an XD, or Micro spline make more sense?
I saw a few with the new SLX, or XT but not a single one with a GX, or better XD driver.
Besides components on most 4000€ full suspension ebikes are pretty bad anyway, like m200 brakes, cheap non tubless formula wheel sets and RS Recon forks.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

OneTrustMan said:


> I'm kinda confused why almost all ebikes up to over 5000 bucks are using HG style cassettes.
> I never killed a steel HG, but had to replace a few alloy ones on my DT wheels and some other brands I don't remember. And that on normal bikes.
> An ebike would kill them even faster.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure that my Haibike "The Hub" isn't going to fail anytime soon; I inadvertently disassembled it trying to tighten bearing preload without understanding how it was assembled and those three doubled pawls in there are huge.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

OneTrustMan said:


> I'm kinda confused why almost all ebikes up to over 5000 bucks are using HG style cassettes.
> I never killed a steel HG, but had to replace a few alloy ones on my DT wheels and some other brands I don't remember. And that on normal bikes.
> An ebike would kill them even faster.
> 
> ...


This is the train of thought I am on with why companies are using the older Shimano freehubs. Personally, my bike came with a Sram NX cassette and the first thing I wanted to do was ditch it for something lighter. During the process, I talked to one of my buddies and he said something that seemed to give me one of those "ah hah" moments.

He said that the cost of replacement for a new chain, chainring and NX cassette is roughly $100. Why spend the extra money on a lighter cassette that is going to over 2x the cost of the entire NX drivetrain? Why spend extra money on chains that you rotate every so many miles to prolong your drivetrain? Just run the NX drivetrain into the ground until its completely dead, then replace the whole thing! I am not sure how many miles folks are getting out of a NX cassette, but probably between 1000 and 2000? The drivetrain is completely disposable and meant to be worn out. Might as well do it the cheapest way possible.

This made a lot of sense to me, so hopefully that answers your question. I haven't looked into pricing on the new Microspline stuff, but that may be another good option if you like Shimano.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Streetdoctor said:


> No issues with I9's. They say it's approved also.


I would say with an XD or Microspline, its a go. I wouldn't run a NX cassette on a Shimano splined freehub from i9 or anyone for that matter. in the least, it needs to have a steel insert like the Factor hubs.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

OneTrustMan said:


> I'm kinda confused why almost all ebikes up to over 5000 bucks are using HG style cassettes.
> I never killed a steel HG, but had to replace a few alloy ones on my DT wheels and some other brands I don't remember. And that on normal bikes.
> An ebike would kill them even faster.
> 
> ...


Dont buy a store ebike, they are a waste of money. Build your own, its super easy to do and you can have all the top of the line components that you want, XD, Micro spline whatever. You can have a motor in the wind-count you desire for the terrain you are riding.

As for expensive, proprietary ebikes having the cheaper/less reliable components. Profit Margin. People who buy the store bought ebikes are gullible rich folk. You could build yourself, or have someone build you an ebike that is far superior for less money, with a huge battery if you so wish. Rather then small 500Wh battery that limits your range. You can still get torque sensed pedal assist if you want that, or magnet sensed crank pedal assist. Not sure what the laws in the USA state in that regard if it has to be torque sensed or what have you. That adds more money of course, torque sensors are not cheap. Limit your watts with a Cycle Analyst. The attraction of the store bought ebikes are that they look sleek, they look like a normal bicycle. Battery is hidden well and looks like a normal tube. Most people wont even know its an ebike, I can spot them easy but sometimes I question if they are or not, if I havent had a longer glance at the bike. There are lots out there these days, which is good to see. Just saying there is no need to empty your bank account to go ebiking.

It comes down to profit margins, thats why the major ebike corps are cheaping out on the component side of a bicycle component layout. Like any other normal sweating bicycle too right. Margins are most likely much higher on the ebikes.

Sucks to spend all that money on a bicycle and having to pay more money to replace broken components or upgrade components. Just plain sucks.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

matt4x4 said:


> Dont buy a store ebike, they are a waste of money. Build your own, its super easy to do and you can have all the top of the line components that you want, XD, Micro spline whatever. You can have a motor in the wind-count you desire for the terrain you are riding.
> 
> As for expensive, proprietary ebikes having the cheaper/less reliable components. Profit Margin. People who buy the store bought ebikes are gullible rich folk. You could build yourself, or have someone build you an ebike that is far superior for less money, with a huge battery if you so wish. Rather then small 500Wh battery that limits your range. You can still get torque sensed pedal assist if you want that, or magnet sensed crank pedal assist. Not sure what the laws in the USA state in that regard if it has to be torque sensed or what have you. That adds more money of course, torque sensors are not cheap. Limit your watts with a Cycle Analyst. The attraction of the store bought ebikes are that they look sleek, they look like a normal bicycle. Battery is hidden well and looks like a normal tube. Most people wont even know its an ebike, I can spot them easy but sometimes I question if they are or not, if I havent had a longer glance at the bike. There are lots out there these days, which is good to see. Just saying there is no need to empty your bank account to go ebiking.
> 
> ...


Nah, first of all it is not that cheap to build your own.
I made comparisons before and it won't save me that much.
Also those self build ebikes are freaking ugly.


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

just added a 1500w Bafang BBS HD on my Specialized Fatboy, stripped the pawls AND bent the axle within 2 rides on the stock roval hub.

DT 350 BigRide holding up nicely so far. 18 poe version, 190 qr spacing


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

syl3 said:


> just added a 1500w Bafang BBS HD on my Specialized Fatboy, stripped the pawls AND bent the axle within 2 rides on the stock roval hub.
> 
> DT 350 BigRide holding up nicely so far. 18 poe version, 190 qr spacing


18 poe is pretty low, even for an ebike. But I totally see the ebike DT Swiss hub being a bomber option for that much power.

And I don't think that 1500 watts is legal on any mountain bike trail, at least in the USA


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

dustyduke22 said:


> 18 poe is pretty low, even for an ebike.


Can't seem to help yourself!


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

I have a Haibike with the 3 double pawls
Got 1300 miles of single track before the pawls started slipping.
Sharpened the rounded off pawls and got another 700 miles before the 3 pawls disintegrated.
Have DT 350 now

Matt 4x4
What aftermarket mid drives are you suggesting that have torque sensing and what do they cost including battery?


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

mikesee said:


> Can't seem to help yourself!


Low POE hubs are defidently not helping me!


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

dustyduke22 said:


> Low POE hubs are defidently not helping me!


Dt has 36 poe option. Bonty has dt compatible 54 poe option.

But i find i do not need it on the ebike, as the motor/crank has pawls as well so upgrading just the rear is useless. Better to get used to engaging the throttle early in these situations so when i start to mash, the motor has already done the pawl engagement for me.


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

highroad 2 said:


> What aftermarket mid drives are you suggesting that have torque sensing and what do they cost including battery?


Tsdz2 i believe is the most popular right now.

Unlike bafang, it lacks axle length options, its only for bsa 73 shell atm.


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

The bafang ultra has torque sensing I believe but you will need a frame to fit it


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

syl3 said:


> Tsdz2 i believe is the most popular right now.
> 
> Unlike bafang, it lacks axle length options, its only for bsa 73 shell atm.


The TSDZ2 is what I use and in fact just ordered another for a bike on the way. The torque sensing works very well I find and there is no way I would have an eMTB without torque sensing PAS having ridden the Bafang cadence ones. I have no interest in the Ultra because it is too much power with too much weight and frame specific...

Chainline is an issue with the TS motors but I got that dialed by fitting an offset chainring which involved some drilling and dremeling only. I have over 1500 miles on the drive train and it is still good to go.









You are incorrect that the TS will only fit a 73mm shell however:









The version I just ordered is set up with the open source firmware and different display that was developed on Endless Sphere that allows for more finite adjustments of the assist levels to human input. The stock programming isn't all that bad but there is room for improvement.

As far as cost the new build kit is $530 and I already have an 18ah 21700 cell HL battery in stock that I paid $400 for on a bro buddy deal but I also have one of these which was also $400 https://ebikemarketplace.com/collections/48v-batteries/products/48v-16ah-sea-viper for shorter rides. Currently I use the 12ah one mostly due to my mtb rides being doable wh wise with it. Have some longer logging road rides planned for the new ride that will take both batteries.

Instead of a back pack my tt bag will hold either battery. Just have to swap out the Anderson connectors via a cable from there when the dt battery goes dead or vice versa. Similar to this arrangement I have used on my eX









I admit I was a bit nervous about adding the weight up high but in reality it works well and doesn't affect handling as one might think.

This is similar to the bike I have coming for retro fitting









Rear hub will be a Shimano and I feel by careful shift management it will be fine. With my TS I just let up for a sec and shift and the run on from the motor does the actual shift with no pressure from me on the pedals. Otherwise it is critical I feel to keep the PAS engaged as much as possible which can be hard when timing your cranks and can end up with too much pressure on the pedals in too high a gear which is about the only time I have ever blown a hub and that was without e assist.

My solution, even while riding a conventional mtb, is to slightly drag the rear brake and keep even pressure on the pedals while slowing cadence to avoid pedal strikes in tight situations that require it. It helps to keep the PAS active so you still have motor assist while maneuvering and when you release the brake off you go unimpeded.


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## Fat&SkinnyCO (Nov 23, 2014)

*Hub with replaceable ratchet ring*

My Mulefut rear wheel came with a Novatec D202SB. I believe this is a low end hub but when the rear hub broke, I found that the problem was that only the ratchet ring was broken which is replaceable. I bought a new ratchet ring and a spare - no wheel rebuilding! I would recommend a hub that has a replaceable ratchet ring.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Stans Neo Freehub bearings lasted about 200 miles on my Levo


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