# camelbak weight vs water bottle



## stokerslo (Sep 9, 2004)

I just ditched the camelbak and started using the water bottle cages(due to back issues) with a pack under the seat for tools tube etc. just wondering if the weight transfer from my back or camelbak to the actual bike itself makes a "power to weight " difference. My bike was at 29lbs and now with water bottles filled and tools is around 37 lbs. Is this the same thing as riding a downhill rig?


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## Hardtailforever (Feb 11, 2004)

I think the biggest difference will be in the fact that people tend to carry less when not using a pack. In terms of performance on the bike, between rider and bike you've now lost most of the weight of the pack/bladder, probably some random stuff in the pack that you won't be carrying, and probably a little less water (which is by far the biggest weight issue with hydration packs). This quickly adds up to excess weith on the order of pounds. So your total weight loss makes the biggest difference.

In terms of weight distribution, center of gravity is lowered and there is likely no difference in unsprung suspension weight, so you're looking at improved performance there as well. Enjoy your cooler back and faster riding.


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## oldassracer (Mar 26, 2009)

downsides to using frame mounted bottles are:

dirty bottles = you'll be drinking crap off the bottle

ejected bottles

frame stress

less hydration - you gotta take one hand off the bar, slow down or stop to drink
this makes you - 

Slower

dropped bottles ( see more dirt to drink)

water is hotter, sometimes downright nasty to drink

I wish someone would make a weight conscious camelbak

There are 14oz backpacks that can carry 30 lbs = why can't they make a 5 oz camelbak carrier?

The dirty bottles alone is enough to keep me away from frame mounted bottles

The only place frame mounted bottles make sense are on road rides in clean weather


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

if you prefer a camelbak rather then a bottle get this:
http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/19...ion/Camelbak-Racebak-72oz-Sleeveless-2010.htm

i run a bottle without tools because i hate having the added weight on my back, it makes you sweat more anyway and i never need the tools.


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## S_Trek (May 3, 2010)

facelessfools said:


> if you prefer a camelbak rather then a bottle get this:
> http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/19...ion/Camelbak-Racebak-72oz-Sleeveless-2010.htm
> 
> i run a bottle without tools because i hate having the added weight on my back, it makes you sweat more anyway and i never need the tools.


Camel Breast?


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

oldassracer said:


> downsides to using frame mounted bottles are:
> 
> dirty bottles = you'll be drinking crap off the bottle
> 
> ...


Riding a mountain bike is all about dirt! Obviously, you are against water bottles. A good rider doesn't "drop" the bottle. And many of us have back issues that prevent us from having all that weight pushing down on us.
I use to carry a bladder in my Camelbak....I switched to a water bottle...
A little dirt flavored seasoning never hurt anyone, open your sense of taste a little, LOL! 
If it's good enough for my tires to touch, it's good enough for my palette!


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## edgerat (Oct 10, 2008)

Unless the dirt has salmonella or e-coli in it...... Warm water actually gets into your system faster than cold water does. I ride with a hydration pack on, it has a tube, two tire levers, a 6-way crank brothers multi-tool, a tiny pump that can also be converted to run CO2 and two 16gr CO2 canisters. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best as far as the tools go. As soon as you say, "I don't carry tools cuz I never need them" is the day you bust a chain and run into a post slippage situation that you can't finger-tighten. I ride for fitness and for fun so, 10lbs on my back doesn't bother me in the least little bit. Ride naked if you are that worried about it


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

edgerat said:


> Unless the dirt has salmonella or e-coli in it...... Warm water actually gets into your system faster than cold water does. I ride with a hydration pack on, it has a tube, two tire levers, a 6-way crank brothers multi-tool, a tiny pump that can also be converted to run CO2 and two 16gr CO2 canisters. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best as far as the tools go. As soon as you say, "I don't carry tools cuz I never need them" is the day you bust a chain and run into a post slippage situation that you can't finger-tighten. I ride for fitness and for fun so, 10lbs on my back doesn't bother me in the least little bit. Ride naked if you are that worried about it


What's wrong with riding naked? Everyone who is anyone has ridden naked, come on, you're kidding right?!

And, a healthy digestive tract laughs at ecoli and salmonella....It's what I've got living inside of me that ecoli and salmonella fear! Believe me, you don't want to know...take a look at my avatar...FEAR :cornut:


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## stokerslo (Sep 9, 2004)

*confusing*



ambassadorhawg said:


> Riding a mountain bike is all about dirt! Obviously, you are against water bottles. A good rider doesn't "drop" the bottle. And many of us have back issues that prevent us from having all that weight pushing down on us.
> I use to carry a bladder in my Camelbak....I switched to a water bottle...
> A little dirt flavored seasoning never hurt anyone, open your sense of taste a little, LOL!
> If it's good enough for my tires to touch, it's good enough for my palette!


ok you kinda understands the original thread. I have lower back issues and have to ditch the camelback. My original question although hard to read thru invloves the weight transfer(from my back to bike). "power to weight" is kind of hard to understand, basically Im wondering if there is a difference , or is this going to slow me down by the weight from my back being transferred to my bike. A 29 lb bike vs a 37 bike seems like a huge difference. thanks marc


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

stokerslo said:


> ok you kinda understands the original thread. I have lower back issues and have to ditch the camelback. My original question although hard to read thru invloves the weight transfer(from my back to bike). "power to weight" is kind of hard to understand, basically Im wondering if there is a difference , or is this going to slow me down by the weight from my back being transferred to my bike. A 29 lb bike vs a 37 bike seems like a huge difference. thanks marc


All joking around aside...

For me, having the weight off my back instantly made me faster uphill and more comfortable in all stiuations. And as someone else has already stated, moving that weight from up on your back down to a low point on your bike will increase stability. It's a win-win scenerio...


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## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

oldassracer said:


> I wish someone would make a weight conscious camelbak


i use this when I need one for a longer race:
http://www.thenorthface.com/catalog/sc-gear/e-race-boa.html


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## mattkock (Mar 19, 2009)

I ditched my Camelback for a bottle and cage a few months ago for local rides and instantly felt faster and more agile. I'm fairly sure that I'm not it just feels that way. On rides where we're quite a long ways from the car or help I still use the Camelback but I just feel better without it.


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## KYjelly (Mar 11, 2010)

I have very large broad shoulders, and find most hydration packs are made for 14y/o girls. They always cut into my shoulders etc. I prefer bottles when racing, as theyre also easier for my crew to refill than a bladder - although I like the idea of that racebak thing. Might work for 1-2hr races, which I never do. They need to come up with a refill solution like a NASCAR fuel refill. Plug in a little valve and a co2 canister and POW, you're refilled and ready to rock.


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## tracerprix (Dec 26, 2009)

You guys are making me want to ditch the hydrapak for water bottles. BUT I really like just sucking on the tube for water than the bottle, but I don't really want a big pack on my back. I have been looking for a small pack to see if that would help. I seem to have a big pack for what? I don't know. I use the bigger pack for commuting to work when I need a change of clothes/etc. I will try a smaller pack to see how I like it. But I got me thinking of ditching it for the local rides with the buds.


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## KYjelly (Mar 11, 2010)

Ive always wondered why someone hasnt invented best of both worlds. A 750ml bidon that has a camelback tube tracked up to the bars so you could just unclip the mouthpeice and suck away while riding.

Something like the old profile aero drinking system? Or something equally as wacky?


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## nov0798 (Nov 27, 2005)

These packs are interesting, as they dont sit directly against your back. Some of them have a type of mesh standoff system that allows air to circulate between the pack and your back. They also have a lower type belt to help distribute the weight. They are also super comfortable. The only drawback is their price.

http://www.deuterusa.com/products/


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## KYjelly (Mar 11, 2010)

Im thinking something like this..

http://www.aerostich.com/drinking-tube-kit.html


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## edgerat (Oct 10, 2008)

My wife uses a deuter pack and I run a dakine drafter pack. They both have padding and venting to keep them off your back. This thread could really be narrowed down to two simple things. If you CAN carry a bottle or two on your bike and how much water do you consume on a ride? If you can get away with 48oz on a ride and can carry two bottles on your bike then you have your answer. If you are a short bastard like me and have to ride smaller frames that do not have the ability to run bottles then you run a pack.


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## KYjelly (Mar 11, 2010)

What do you know... http://www.bluedesert.co.il/smartube_caps.html


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## sanjuro (Sep 29, 2004)

Drill your bottles. You'd be surprised how weight you will save.


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## ferday (Jan 15, 2004)

KYjelly said:


> Im thinking something like this..
> 
> http://www.aerostich.com/drinking-tube-kit.html


like this? http://www.mtnbikeriders.com/2010/05/23/psych-trail-frame-bag-review/

while i love the feel of just using a bottle (and my beloved Awesome strap for tools/tubes), unfortunately it's only practical on the shortest of rides...or during races of course where i can swap bottles. i also have an issue like edgerat where my tiny framed FS bikes often can't carry a bottle 

otherwise i have a very large (3L, major pockets) pack and a very small (similar to the raceback thingy) pack... if i'm using my large pack, i'm going on a backcountry ride and often wear over 20 lbs including tools, food and water.


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## nov0798 (Nov 27, 2005)

Thats a cool pack for the frame. I love it! This is also on a Trek, similar to mine.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 25, 2009)

oldassracer said:


> I wish someone would make a weight conscious camelbak
> 
> There are 14oz backpacks that can carry 30 lbs = why can't they make a 5 oz camelbak carrier?
> 
> ...


The Wingnut Splitback is reported to weigh 13oz w/o a bladder. That's pretty light as far as packs go. Out of curiosity, I weighed 3 empty 24oz bottles, and they were 10oz.


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## mmanuel09 (Nov 26, 2008)

I use both water bottles and camel back. I think it comes down to personal preference. The biggest thing I've noticed is that the pack traps a lot of heat. For training rides I always wear my mule pack cause its stores all my gear/tools. I've tried to stuff my jersey and didn't like it cause it would weigh down causing a choking feeling when my jersey was fully zipped.


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## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

I think extra weight on the bike makes it more difficult to bunny-hop the bike over fallen logs vs. the same amount of extra weight on my back.

However, a cooler back is nice. I've recently moved to an area with trails not as rugged as my last area, so I'd go back to water bottles except that I like having a lot of water with me.


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## Riken (May 27, 2008)

Frame stress ??? whatever!


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## tintin40 (May 27, 2007)

sanjuro said:


> Drill your bottles. You'd be surprised how weight you will save.


:yikes: great idea. ha ha ha


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

didn't like the additional weight on my back either. Furthermore, cleaning the bladder system was always too much a hassle for me.

slightly more back friendly is the bladder system by Inov-8. Used it for trail running quite a lot, no bouncing at all. But you still have to clean that stupid bladder. Now I simply put one or two bottles in the backpack.


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## Motorep (Jun 20, 2004)

mattkock said:


> I ditched my Camelback for a bottle and cage a few months ago for local rides and instantly felt faster and more agile. I'm fairly sure that I'm not it just feels that way. On rides where we're quite a long ways from the car or help I still use the Camelback but I just feel better without it.


I just made the same move a few months back. Then we went on a longer ride and I wore my Camelback and HATED the thing :madman: I almost took it off and hid it on the trail. It was way too hot, uncomfortable, bouncy, and restrictive around my shoulders. I felt like a total goober with it on.

I now use a 20-24 oz bottle on the frame and then one or two 16-20 oz bottles of store bought water in my jersey pockets for longer rides. I keep my tools in a small seatbag. I may try a Wingnut pack for longer rides (think Whole Enchilada or Trail 401 from C.B.).

I just did a 21+ miler the other evening with one 20oz and a 16oz bottle and still had 1/4 of my 20oz'er left.


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## Boxer (Mar 7, 2005)

I use both.
When my rides are 2 hrs or less I stick with the water bottles and seat pack.
When rides are 3-4 hrs and/of more then 10 riders are going, then I add the camleback taht has the extra tubes, tools and emergency items for first aid or an unexpected hike out or airlift situation.
Plan for the worst just incase you need it.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

From a power point of view it doesn't matter if the weight is on your back or your bike, you still have to power it forwards.

But the bike with the weight on it, will feel less nibble cause well it's heavier, but your lighter but not by enough compared to your much higher weight so you won't really notice that.

What ever it takes to get through and keep riding.


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## seppk (Apr 29, 2009)

well since the water, tools, etc. are static weight and not rotational (e.g wheels) then your not going to notice it as much on the bike. Personally I prefer the feeling of a light, unrestricted body than a slightly heavier bike. You can still put some tools, tubes and such in your jersey pocket. With the overall weight issue, I think it could balance things out statistically, but in the real-world, having nothing on your back will be better.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

I'm using bottles on my roadbike and Camelback on my MTB

While i apreciate the cooler back when riding my roadbike i don't like the filled backpockets of my jersey. But what i definitely can tell is the difference of having full or empty bottles on my bike. It definitely feels much slower with all the weight on board. I can't sprint as fast as i would without the added weight. Side-to-side movement is slower with all that added weight on the bike.

On my MTB i have the camelback since i don't like dirty bottles in my mouth and since during my rides you can't re-fill as easily as you could on the road where you basically can get drink water every 5 minutes or so...So i have to carry more water from the beginning. I like the fact that i can drink on the downhills...i can actually ride on while drinking. My bottled buddies drink only when we stop or on very smooth sections. I sweat a lot so i really need to carry a lot of water as well which is just easier with the bladder. I usually need 1 liter per hour so it always start with almost 2 liters (67 oz.) in my Camelback.
And in techincal trails i really like my bike to be light. With the Camelback i don't have the added weight on my bike. Sure - to feel comfortable you have to carry your camelback placed right, placing the weight on the lower back not high on the shoulders.This way i think any back-pain should be eliminated to the max. Also the shoulders and arms don't get much added stress if you have the weight sitting more on your "waist"/lower back. Anyway - i want my bike to be nimble and flickable which it isn't if i would have 2 bottles on board. The worst you could do is to place a saddlebag with the tools under the saddle. Thats's the highest possible place to add weight to your bike and it makes it slow to move around....no thanks. I can really tell a difference if i have a SLR saddle (140g) or my carbon saddle (65g)...

And finally in my past 20 years of biking i had a few crashes where i was really lucky that i had my Camelback on. I once landed straight on my back after flying almost 40 feet through the air on a rocky downhill section...there the bladder was acting just like a airbag...i think without it i would have been in even more pain


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Too bad Camelback doesn't make the Rocket anymore. It's really small and light and doesn't bother me. It has just enough room for the water and tube/CO2/tire lever I need in a race. Last winter while trimming weight from all my gear I couldn't find a lighter method to carry water/tools.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

*I've got an idea...*

Anyone thought about having a frame mounted water bottle with a drinking tube connected to it?

Benifits:
1) no more extra weight on your back
2) no more drinking from dirty bottles

:ihih:


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## onlycrimson (Nov 11, 2008)

This is what I use for racing. It has enough room for a multi-tool and a tube, if you use them. Usually my phone is in the pocket though. It's pretty light and holds just enough for longer xc races.http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/20...171-Hydration/Camelbak-Hydrobak-50oz-2009.htm


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## purdyboy (Nov 15, 2005)

For those who like/use the camelbak idea but want to lighten up, there are lightweight bladders available from Platypus in various sizes: http://www.cascadedesigns.com/platypus
These are often used by the ultralight hiker community.

I don't know of a commercially available carrier for the platy, but it wouldn't be hard to sew up a simple lightweight silnylon sleeve and shoulder straps to suit the platy bladder.
The platy can save around 40-50g. A custom silnylon holster could save up to 200g.
Lightweight fabric, buckles etc can be bought here: http://www.questoutfitters.com/

Might be a cost effective way to shed 1/2 a pound (for the gram weenie who would spend many $$$ for similar reductions).


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## AZ-X (Feb 16, 2004)

Even though I live in the desert and own a couple of hydration packs, I hate using them because I hate having the perpetually sweaty back and I hate all the straps and stuff. I feel much more free using a large water bottle. I often will go for 2-3 hour rides with just the one large bottle and some Gu or a bar or two, a small Lezyne pump (attached at the bottle cage mount) or CO2 cartridge and a multi-tool because I use very reliable tubeless tires and hate the packs so much. I will use one if going camping, hiking, or on an epic ride with friends, but not on a regular training ride or fun ride if I can avoid it at all...

It adds a bit of weight to my frame but, honestly, I hardly notice it. I would personally rather add that bit of weight there than have to deal with that feeling of extra stuff strapped to my back.


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## bikeguy0 (Aug 5, 2007)

I raced my first MTB race which was 2.5 hours with camelbak, next one was about 1.5 hours and I just put everything in my pockets with a large bottle in my back pocket. It was a very technical course and the bottle didn't fly out. My back tends to start to hurt after laying down the power for extended periods and I think the pack makes it worse. Unless I need to I am not going to wear them anymore. Most rides I go on are less than 3 hours and I can get away with two large bottles or carry another extra in my pocket. 

Only bad thing is my bike can only fit one bottle so I can only carry two unless I stuff two in my pocket which gets a little crazy and weighs down the jersey.


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## netcrodriguez (May 7, 2011)

I personally believe that it all comes down to

* preferences
* needs

I have both and I used them depending on what I'm doing that day and for hown long: XC or DH. My needs (including helmet and level of protection) vary depending on what I'm up to that day.

As to the taste of dirt or the germs, tasting a little dirt out of the battle is not that terrible when you think about the possibilities of what could happen while riding a bike up in the mountains. Anything from eating dust to breaking bones or getting biten by a snake!


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## LynskeyMatt (Feb 11, 2012)

bladders always sink into a blob in my backpack making it not comfortable to carry on my back


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## sonett iii (Jun 1, 2009)

I prefer riding without a Camelbak

but anything over 3 hours unassisted almost demands one


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