# Quick review; K/D Tri-Clone XM-L2 U2 lamp: Stepless UI



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Too early in the year to do a full user review as all the trails where I live are nothing but mud. I did do a quick ride on some paved bike paths so I thought I'd give some initial comments.

First up, this is the lamp I ordered: 3 x Cree XM-L2 U2 Stepless Adjusted Bicycle Light with Battery Set and Charger. Unfortunately I didn't exactly get what I ordered. I was sent the Manta Ray D003. Not U2 like I wanted but still looks like the emitters are XM-L2's.

After taking my initial spin I was very impressed with what I was seeing. That pleased me because initial test inside my home ( wall test ) showed a yellowish ring in the beam pattern. Fortunately such rings don't always translate over to actually use and thankfully such was the case with the D003. Basically the D003 has a medium wide beam and VERY GOOD distance throw. This lamp is a little wider and a little heavier than your typical tri-clone. The reflectors are also a little deeper. This helps explain the excellent throw which actually compared very favorably to my Gloworm X2 (v3). The GW still has the edge as far as having a cleaner, smoother slightly wider beam pattern but I was very impressed with the useability of the D003 output. As I rounded tight turns I was never compelled to turn on my helmet lamp ( AND that is saying a lot! )

Before leaving for the ride I pre-adjusted the mid-mode to be a little brighter. ( Not sure if it was step 5 or 6 ). Once I got out I quickly noticed that the low mode was not to my liking. I stopped and then adjusted it to a nice useable level ( step 3 or 4 ). Once done it was absolutely beautiful! I est. the low was now in the 350 lumen range. The previously set-up mid mode was perfect. The output on mid-mode was so good that I really had no need for more light. I could tell that on mid-mode ( step 5 or 6 ) that I could easily see about 150 ft. ( and that on wet, damp dark paved trail ) Clearly most of the light is thrown towards the center of the beam pattern but there is still more than enough spill to clearly see things in the perimeter without any problems.

Too early to rate the total output on high. I need to do some inside lux comparisons before I do that. What I will say is that if I didn't own the Gloworm lights the D003 would be my bar lamp of choice. Now if I encounter unacceptable thermal issues that may change but for the time being I like what I'm seeing. More testing being done tomorrow. ( **OH, almost forgot to mention; this lamp bought with my own money ).


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Connectors in the pic look to not be the locking/sealed MS type - what does it have?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

TiGeo said:


> Connectors in the pic look to not be the locking/sealed MS type - what does it have?


They are pretty much standard MS type connectors. As cheap batteries/connectors go these are not the best but definitely not the worst I've seen. The provided battery and male connector seal very well. Other MS type batteries work with it as well, some good, some better.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Seems Kaidomain didn't provide very good explanation of how the modes work. It sounded "stepless" (i.e. Ramping output level up/down as you hold the button) but in fact has 10 preset levels you can set your low & medium too. Did I get this right? 
-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Seems Kaidomain didn't provide very good explanation of how the modes work. It sounded "stepless" (i.e. Ramping output level up/down as you hold the button) but in fact has 10 preset levels you can set your low & medium too. Did I get this right?
> -Garry


Yes, the lamp has three steady modes, L-M-H. Each or the three modes can be adjusted through 9 output levels by doing a push/hold for each level.

Example, adjust mid level mode: Turn lamp on with one push. Lamp comes on in low, press again lamp is in mid-mode. Once in mid mode press and hold switch lamp goes off and then comes back on. You will notice rear led light is now blinking which indicates "stepless mode". At this point you keep ( momentarily quick press ) the button till you get the output you want. It will go from lowest to highest and they cycle back until you chose the level you want. When the desired level is reached you press/hold the switch and the output is set/saved for that mode level. One quick press/hold turns the lamp off. Once set if will retain the same setting even after you remove the battery.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*K/D triple ( Manta Ray ) D003: Thermal and Lux test.*

*THERMAL RUN TEST: Manta Ray D003*

_Starting room temperature 75°F / 23.9°C_
A small 1ft. fan was used at 3ft distance on high to simulate moving air when riding a bike. Thermal readings taken with a Craftsman infrared thermometer. Lamp set on high.



> Starting temperature on lamp head ......*.80°F / 26.6°C*
> 
> 2 minutes..........................*.80°F / 26.6°C*
> 
> ...


*LUX COMPARISON;* Manta Ray D003 ( *XM-L2 ) vs. Gloworm X2 ( v3 ) ( *XM-L2 "U2") *emitters
All readings in LUX. Both lamps have a "stepless" menu and are adjusted to my liking. Test done at about 4 meters



> Manta Ray D003..............Gloworm X2 (v3)
> 
> low....234 ........................245
> 
> ...


*Things to note about the Lux test;* No pre-warm up was done with either lamp. The two lamps have different optical characteristics. The GW uses optics while the D003 uses reflectors. Reflectors tend to focus more light toward the center and usually will have a brighter hot spot. In a lux test a lamp with reflectors will have an advantage. A higher lux reading will not necessarily mean it has a higher output when compared to a lamp using optics ( lumen wise ). The Gloworm is the brigher lamp BUT the MRay holds it's own and has throw that rivals the Gloworm. If the Gloworm is truely 1500 lumen I would judge the MRay to be somewhere around 1300 lumen ( give or take 50 lumen ) I'll also note that the beam tint on the MRay is also very good as well. No bluishness to the tint at all.

*Things to note about the Thermal test:* I was very impressed with the thermal management of the MRay D003. The readings I got were lower than expected. Thermal "shut down" never came into play but I didn't run the lamp on high for more than 12 minutes. After I finished doing the temperature readings I did a quick lux test to see how much the output had dropped. Not to my surprise the Lux output only dropped to 981 lux! In my opinion this represents pretty good thermal management ( right out of the box ).


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Wow this sounds really nice for a budget light! So you can also change your mode order if wanted to, to H-M-L? And all three LED's are on at the same time in each mode?

Looking forward to beamshots!

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> Wow this sounds really nice for a budget light! So you can also change your mode order if wanted to, to H-M-L? And all three LED's are on at the same time in each mode?
> 
> Looking forward to beamshots!
> 
> -Garry


Ha! YES!...I never thought about that but YES you can change the mode order by reprogramming them AND if you wanted you can change it to only TWO modes ...H-L-H...or H-M-H..etc.
That's the beauty of having a "Stepless" option and one of the reasons I bought the light.

Eventually I plan on buying a new camera for beam shots. My old camera works fine but I am not able to transfer the photos easily to my PC because the camera is so out of date. I can do it but a total PITA. Anyway, trail conditions too muddy at the moment for any good photos ( or riding ) and still waiting for all the snow to melt. Jonesing big time for some trail time. Crossing my fingers hoping no more snow shows up.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

*Cat-man-do*, thanks for review!



Cat-man-do said:


> Not U2 like I wanted but still looks like the emitters are XM-L2's.


How do you know whether it's U2 or not?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

-Archie- said:


> *Cat-man-do*, thanks for review!
> 
> How do you know whether it's U2 or not?


Good question. Basically I'm comparing it to the ones I already have. I also ordered an XM-L2 "U2" emitter on 16mm copper base with my K/D order so I could mod one of my torches for more output. Looking at that emitter and the plain XM-L2 emitters in some of my other lamps I don't see much difference. Perhaps someone else might want to chime in on the structural differences between the L2 and L2 "U2".

The lamp I ordered was suppose to be with the L2 "U2's". As I said before that one didn't come but was substituted with the Manta Ray which looks almost exactly like it. It might actually be with U2 but since the other site which sells the Manta Ray D003 has it listed as only, "XM-L2", I'm not going to assume the one I have is using the U2 upgrade. My Gloworm X2 (v3) is using the XM-L2 U2's. Only problem is since it is using optics I can't really get a good look at the emitters unless I take off the front off of the lamp. Now if the one's on the GW look like the others than perhaps I'm wrong and the Manta Ray is indeed U2. At some point I will e-mail K/D and ask them the same question.

Kaidomain has some explaining to do anyway. I also ordered an XM-L2 "U2", 5-mode drop-in . The emitter on that drop-in is flawed and has about 10-15% of the die missing. While it still works it is not as bright as expected and has a large yellow artifact in the center of the beam pattern. Looks like I got a bad one.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> Looking at that emitter and the plain XM-L2 emitters in some of my other lamps I don't see much difference. Perhaps someone else might want to chime in on the structural differences between the L2 and L2 "U2".


There's none. After manufacturing, the LEDs are sorted by measuring their output, and get appropriate bin/tint marking assigned. And BTW, there's no such thing as "plain XM-L2": all of them have brightness and color codes.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

"U2" is simply a flux bin (emitters are rated for output level "flux bin" and color output - "tint". A "U2" is simply the next bin level above "T6". There is no structural difference; no difference in appearance at all. Now as most know already, there is a "structural" difference between the XM-L and XM-L2. Also, the higher you go on the flux bins, the more cool white you tend to get in the tint (more bluish or purplish of a color). And these Chinese stores will lie about bins & tints too! There is a nice reference page on Flashlight WiKi explaining tints & bins with nice charts for each emitter type, but it's really tough for me to post a link from my phone. 

EDIT - Archie beat me to it!
-Garry


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Very nice. This is the same light I got last year so I'm looking forward to reading your reviews on it. I posted before about my initial thermal management issues. It's worth noting that this light has a very nice (and bright) "pulse" instead of a strobe when you activate the flash mode.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

steelhmr said:


> Very nice. This is the same light I got last year so I'm looking forward to reading your reviews on it. I posted before about my initial thermal management issues. It's worth noting that this light has a very nice (and bright) "pulse" instead of a strobe when you activate the flash mode.


Link to your post?

EDIT - Oh nevermind, I see there's been a bunch of posts about this light and thermal issues in the "New Clone 3 x XML T-6 49.88" thread and saw your post 447 (and some others, but gave up reading that thread). Please excuse the newbie  . By the way, I see you're not too far away from me.

Thanks,
Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

-Archie- said:


> There's none. After manufacturing, the LEDs are sorted by measuring their output, and get appropriate bin/tint marking assigned. And BTW, there's no such thing as "plain XM-L2": all of them have brightness and color codes.


Yes Arch, I know all that. When I say, "plain" I'm just referring to one of the standard T6 bins that are usually used. Choice of tint varies and as you said is part of the sorting process. The U2 bins are usually rated as having a higher output than the T6 rated emitters.

When I ordered the XM-L2 "U2" from K/D the bin was also listed as "1A". This is the cool white version. Not exactly what I wanted but you take what you can get. The cool white sometimes tends to have some bluishness to the beam pattern. I would have preferred the 2B tint but those are really hard to find. I like the tint to be more white with less blue which usually is somewhere just over the 6000K range. Once you get over 6500K there tends to be more blue to the tint.

At some point I'd like to order several versions and choose which I like the best. The "neutral white" ( NW ) bins are fine but appear to be not as bright in certain situations. NW works very well though when conditions are dry and all the foliage is in full bloom. NW brings out the colors better and is easier on the eye. In the fall and winter the leaves fall off of everything and things get damp and wet. Reflectivity of trail terrain drops. In those conditions ( IMO ) the brighter white tint works better ( as long as it is not too blue )


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Cat.....how does this compare to the original Tri Clone as far as brightness, spread, etc?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Cat.....how does this compare to the original Tri Clone as far as brightness, spread, etc?


Ah, good question. I did do a quick comparison with the older tri-clone ( with T6 emitters ). The original Tri-clone has a slightly wider beam pattern ( with all emitters on ) but doesn't match the total output or throw of the bigger/heavier MRay D003. The old Tri-clones heated up much faster as well as I recall.

Something that I didn't mention before was that I also quickly compared the lux output of the _D/X Nitefire Hero2 triple XM-L U2_ ( think SStorm X3 emitter clone, not to be confused with the newer 3 and 4 emitter SStorm "round" lamps ) and the MRay clearly was the brighter lamp.

Oh, btw the the Manta Ray also comes in a quad version ( D004 ) as well although I don't know if that one's stepless or not.


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Cat, don't you have an olympia? i am curious to see a comparison between the two


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

manbeer said:


> Cat, don't you have an olympia? i am curious to see a comparison between the two


No, don't have an Olympia. Since the Olympia is using XM-L2 emitters with optics it would make an interesting comparison. The Olympia is likely brighter but since it's using a 19° optic it should have a more evenly dispersed beam pattern with perhaps a little less throw. Been a while since someone's reviewed an Olympia. I'd like to see a good user review of the Olympia 2100.

BTW, a quick google search indicates that the Manta Ray quad version ( D004 ) does indeed include a "stepless" menu. Kaidomain sells two versions, one with 4-cell and one with 8-cell battery. Both are using the T-6 emitter unfortunately.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I took the MRay D003 with me to work yesterday to shine it around when I got chance. When I found a rather nice dark area I happened to hold the lamp up head high to simulate what would happen if the lamp were helmet mounted. All I can say is, "Wow!", this would make an awesome helmet lamp. With it's wide yet far throwing beam pattern it would rock on a helmet. At some point I'll probably try it out on the helmet but I'll likely have to center mount it high on the helmet because of the weight issue. I generally can only tolerate so much weight on my head so I'm crossing my fingers hoping it will work. 

If this works it will of course mean that the lamp will stick out like a sore thumb when mounted on the very top of the helmet.  As long as I'm not dodging low branches though it shouldn't be a problem. Can't wait to get a chance to try this stuff out. Still dealing with the winter/mucky trails doldrums. :bluefrown:

*Edit ; I threw on the lamp on the helmet. Ummm...The weight not so much a problem but with the lamp so high on the helmet the center of gravity on the helmet is now much higher. That translates over into making the helmet rock back and forth a bit when moving my head. This means I have to try to make the helmet more stable by tighting the straps under my neck. This is something I don't know if I can deal with on a prolonged ride. I won't have that answer till I try it out.


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## Crescentius (Sep 9, 2007)

Just wanted to say thanks for the review! I was looking for a budget riding light and just ordered one of these base one your info.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

A couple quick comments; Not sure if the MRay D003 has voltage indicators. Looks like I'll have to let it run one of my batteries down to check that out. 

Also of minor interest; when changing modes the lamp does a "small fade" rather than instant "next level". Not really noticeable when going from low to higher levels but going from High to low is kinda cool. 

I'm beating my head on the wall, more snow coming tonight. What a strange winter it's been this year. Record cold temps while the arctic regions are having warmer than usual temps. Hey Alaska, you want your "Cold" back? Take it it's yours. :madman:


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I did put in a product request at FastTech for them to carry this light and also the Pannovo battery case. We'll see. I also asked them to carry the lighthead only. 

-Garry


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Tonight I put the MRay D003 through some more tests. I hooked the lamp up to the provided battery that had yet to be charged. I was hoping to see if the lamp had voltage indicators. This meant I had to run the lamp again with a fan on it only this time for a somewhat longer period than I did before. 

When I first turned the lamp on the back led is lit green. The lamp ran about 20 minutes on the partially charged battery before the indicator on the back turned red. At this point the lamp automatically powered down to low with the back led blinking red. There was no blue intermediate led. 

This immediately gave me pause to think; Was this a thermal shut-down or a low voltage shut-down? In order to answer that question I quickly changed batteries and continued with the lamp running on high. I ran the lamp a total of 30 minutes on high. ( using both batteries ). The lamp did not power down after switching batteries, therefore I believe the power-down was because of the low voltage level of the first ( partially charged ) battery. 

During the test the lamp head never got above 113°F ( 45°C )
Now the question is ; How long will the lamp run in power-down mode before it cuts out? THAT..I will try to answer tomorrow.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

By my test, thermal rump down should happen at about 50°C. Of course it depends on the housing, heat dissipation and input power. Mine driver SKU: 231936 was lately tested in identical housing to SKU: 232195 at DX at room temperature, no additional cooling.
Voltage rump down and its light signaling is depended by quality and voltage drop curve of battery pack. With almost empty or very low quality ones you might even get complete shut off (battery protection might cick in). This is because the driver is regulated and it tries to pull high current at low voltage while batteries can't stand it.
Cat you might try different packs at their voltage end. At better ones, you might experience mid signaling stage at around 6.6V. Lower than that you could get flashing red. I'm writing from memory so this might not be exact numbers.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ledoman said:


> By my test, thermal rump down should happen at about 50°C. Of course it depends on the housing, heat dissipation and input power. Mine driver SKU: 231936 was lately tested in identical housing to SKU: 232195 at DX at room temperature, no additional cooling.
> Voltage rump down and its light signaling is depended by quality and voltage drop curve of battery pack. With almost empty or very low quality ones you might even get complete shut off (battery protection might cick in). This is because the driver is regulated and it tries to pull high current at low voltage while batteries can't stand it.
> Cat you might try different packs at their voltage end. At better ones, you might experience mid signaling stage at around 6.6V. Lower than that you could get flashing red. I'm writing from memory so this might not be exact numbers.


Yes I agree but other lamps I own readily go into the "blue" mid-level warning with only a minor discharge on the battery. For the time being I'm not too worried about the lack of a mid-level warning. As long as the lamp doesn't shut off without some kind of warning I'm good with that but I will try with a better battery at some point to see if there is a difference.

About the thermal shut down issue; Yes most lamps will shut down at around that 50°C ( 122°F ) level ( if indeed they have a shut down circuit ). When I test a lamp for thermal issues I always include a fan to simulate the moving of a bike because it is never a good idea to use a high powered LED lamp while not moving ( unless on a minimal power level ). When I do this I'm trying to find out if the lamp will over-heat WHILE using the fan. If it does that is not a good thing. With no fan moving the air almost every lamp will over-heat of that I have no doubt.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes I know it's not the best idea not to have fan to move air, but I've dare to do that as I've constantly monitored the temperature and I would stop the test if temepratur would go over 60°C. I assume this is still safe enough. And the light was not mine ;-) I've just changed the driver because the stock one pulled only 1.2A from batteries.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ledoman said:


> Yes I know it's not the best idea not to have fan to move air, but I've dare to do that as I've constantly monitored the temperature and I would stop the test if temepratur would go over 60°C. I assume this is still safe enough. And the light was not mine ;-) *I've just changed the driver *because the stock one pulled only 1.2A from batteries.


Since you mentioned "changing the driver" I have to ask, "How did you do that"? I guess it depends on the lamp but on the one I have the back of the lamp looks to be just one piece with the lamp body. I figured when they assembled the lamp that they did so working from the front. In order to get to the driver I would have to take off the front ( not so hard ) and then remove the LED board. That would certainly not be so easy as you would have to deal with the wiring. Even if I did that I have no idea what I'd find once I have access.

My hope was that I would be able to access the driver through the rear so I could add a remote switch. If I have to work through the front of the lamp I'm not so sure I would be willing to try that. Working from the back ( where the driver is ) would be much more easier. Right now I consider this one of my better lamps so I'm not so sure I want to screw around with it by going through the front.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> I figured when they assembled the lamp that they did so working from the front. In order to get to the driver I would have to take off the front ( not so hard ) and then remove the LED board. That would certainly not be so easy as you would have to deal with the wiring.


What namely light you're referring to? Most standard design is a "LED + driver assembly" (often with reflector attached to it), inserted into the case and fixed by front glass' bezel. It is quite easy to access the driver in such lights: no need to desolder anything.

Design with removable rear cover exists as well, but is quite rare in my practice...


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Cat, in mine example very similar to one from DX. Driver can be reached from back side. Original driver was like sku.236160. It has same dimensions as new one so the change was very easy. I've also changed the cable for thicker one.
As Archie said, you can easily open from the front. Most of the time pills inside are quite loose with no thermal paste. No problem to geit it out. See discussion at DX from the post on Monday, February 17 onwards.


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## robs31 (Sep 2, 2009)

Inside the D003 the reflector comes out (holds the three led's in place) and underneath the led's is what looks like a large washer. That is press fit into the housing and rests on about a 1/8" shoulder milled into the body. It's in there pretty tight so I didn't try too hard to pull it out. There is a picture of the inside in the 3X clone thread, it think from steelhmr.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

robs31 said:


> Inside the D003 the reflector comes out (holds the three led's in place) and underneath the led's is what looks like a large washer. That is press fit into the housing and rests on about a 1/8" shoulder milled into the body. It's in there pretty tight so I didn't try too hard to pull it out. There is a picture of the inside in the 3X clone thread, it think from steelhmr.


Yeah, pretty much what I expected. The D003 outer shell is completely mono-piece. All I wanted to do was to solder the leads of a remote switch to the current switch and then have the wires exit the lamp through a hole ( I would drill ) in the back. Well, I guess that's not going to happen now. I'm not willing to tear apart the whole lamp ( at this time ) just to to get to the stuff in the back of the lamp so I can make such a minor change.


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## G_Mozz (Sep 4, 2008)

Cat, have you measured what the current draw is on high?


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## G_Mozz (Sep 4, 2008)

Just ordered this K/D light only to find out it is on backorder.

I really like the way they tell you before you place your order with them :madman:


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## Crescentius (Sep 9, 2007)

All orders show as back ordered when placed. It basically just means your order is queuing for processing, not really that the item is out of stock. Mine was "back-ordered" for about 3 days before the order status changed.


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## G_Mozz (Sep 4, 2008)

Ahh, ok thanks! 

First time i have ordered from them.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

G_Mozz said:


> Cat, have you measured what the current draw is on high?


Sorry, no I haven't. I'll try to get that for you over the weekend. I can only measure the current leaving the battery, no way to measure the current to the emitters without tearing the lamp apart.

If you ordered this lamp and get the same type ( D003 ) that I did I don't think you will be disappointed ( in the lamp ). It is by far the brightest cheap Chinese lamp I own. The stepless user interface is just icing on the cake.

I hope to get my first real road ride of the season in tomorrow if the weather cooperates. Been a long dreary winter.


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## G_Mozz (Sep 4, 2008)

Cat, that's alright, I've ordered the light now so I can measure it when they arrive next year sometime.


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## Crescentius (Sep 9, 2007)

Finally got this in the mail a month and a half after I ordered it, and it doesn't disappoint! Very bright light, came in an unmarked box with no directions but the ui was pretty easy to figure out with the aid of your earlier post. Just curious why you suspect that yours was a manta ray? Was yours marked in some way?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Crescentius said:


> Finally got this in the mail a month and a half after I ordered it, and it doesn't disappoint! Very bright light, came in an unmarked box with no directions but the ui was pretty easy to figure out with the aid of your earlier post. Just curious why you suspect that yours was a manta ray? Was yours marked in some way?


Yes, mine had the words, "Manta Ray" and D003 written on the back of the lamp. Hopefully the one you received is the originally listed lamp with XM-L2 U2 emitters.

I'm real anxious to get out to do some more testing with the one I have but somehow threw my knee out a couple weeks ago. Right now I'm trying to rehab it myself but might have to get it checked out by the Doc's before I start putting the kind of stress on it that MTB riding can do. I should probably get an X-ray just to be on the safe side. PITA to have this happen right as the weather is starting to get nice.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

...Some more feedback from last weekend's night ride: I used my D003 on the bars again to see how it would work while out on the trails. I have one of those plastic bar extensions sold on the ActionLED website and the Manta Ray was mounted on that. The light itself works great but unfortunately I was having a problem with the lamp vibrating and sliding downward. The plastic extension simply has too much flex. If it was all aluminum it would likely work better but it is entirely made out of plastic. Works fine with a smaller lamp but the D003 is a bit heavy for the plastic extension. I'll have to try it again but this time mounted directly to the bars.


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## steelhmr (Sep 30, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> ...Some more feedback from last weekend's night ride: I used my D003 on the bars again to see how it would work while out on the trails. I have one of those plastic bar extensions sold on the ActionLED website and the Manta Ray was mounted on that. The light itself works great but unfortunately I was having a problem with the lamp vibrating and sliding downward. The plastic extension simply has too much flex. If it was all aluminum it would likely work better but it is entirely made out of plastic. Works fine with a smaller lamp but the D003 is a bit heavy for the plastic extension. I'll have to try it again but this time mounted directly to the bars.


I had the same problem. You will need to put some grip tape or adhere some rubber to the bars before mounting.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

steelhmr said:


> I had the same problem. You will need to put some grip tape or adhere some rubber to the bars before mounting.


Yes, I've been trying that. The problem is with the upper part of the extension mount which is actually a plastic tube. It has such a small diameter that it really doesn't work well when built up with silicon tape. I've got it the point where it will stay in place but there is still some minor flex which will translate over to vibration once I start going over some rough stuff. . . now if I could get a stronger mount for the lamp ( one that clamps ) I might be able to eliminate most of the vibration.

I might have to buy some of the friction tape used for baseball bats. I'm told that works well but I've never tried it. If that doesn't work I'll try a piece of rubber tube for a shim but at this point I have no idea if anything used ( for shimming ) is really going to give it an iron tight fit. I might have to order one of these.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Continued from my last posts:*

Been a good number of weeks since I last went out to test the D003. Well last night I finally got dry enough weather to give it a go again.

The set-up: Manta Ray D003 mounted on my handlebars ( extension not used due to vibration issues ). The battery used is a 6000mAh Xeccon Li-Po ( which I don't think they sell anymore )

Basic observations: The lamp functioned as expected and had no mounting issues while on my handlebars. The only problem I had all night was getting used to NOT having a remote which I am totally use to when using my Gloworm's but I digress.

Compared with the Gloworm X2 if definitely has a more narrow beam pattern. ( more about that later ). Since the three steady mode levels are all programmable I had it set up and ready to go with the option to change if I felt I needed to change any of the modes.

Low worked very well ( stepless level 4 I think ) for slow climbing or slow riding. Since the lamp is "reflector based" I found that in practical use it was necessary to make minor adjustments in the angle of the lamp to make the beam pattern more useful. This is where lamps that use optics ( like the Gloworms ) have a big advantage.

Mid-mode ( set at about level 7 ) was good enough for just about anything ( again, once you re-aim the lamp ). Still, the beam width ( while adequate ) was not quite what I was used to. Still, this is expected when using any reflector based lamp. Throw however excels with the D003, depending though on how you aim the lamp.

Lastly, the high mode ( 100% output ). Stellar performance! In this mode you aim the lamp straight out ( for maximum throw ) Since it's the highest level of output the spill is quite significant. At this level I had no problems seeing anything on the trail. Very impressive for a lamp at this price. I'm considering buying a "flood lens" to see how that might work. Personally I find making adjustments to the lamp angle bothersome. ( Then again I'm spoiled by the Gloworms which require little or no adjustments once you have them dialed in. ) I figure with a flood lens you will lose a bit of throw but with the D003 you have more than enough throw. I'd like to see a little more spill when using the lower modes.

Summing up I think this lamp is a winner. Output on high will really impress. If this lamp came with an optical array ( similar to the Gemini Olympia ) I think it would be a fantastic bar light. I only say this of course because I have the Gloworm X2 (v3) to compare it to which means of course that I'm biased. Still, during the night I stopped at one point just to compare the D003 ( on lower levels ) to the Gloworm X2. As soon as I turn the GW on my jaw just drops. The Gloworm X2 (v3) must supply a beam pattern that is at least *_twice as wide_ (* on any mode and with as much or more throw ....freaking have to love the GW lights! ). Only on high did the D003 come close to parity with the Gloworm as far as trail visibility. I guess that means that a lamp with the right optics sitting on the bars ( with decent output ) has a big advantage. Still, all things considered the D003 makes a good bar lamp as is and and as far as reflector based lamps go it is definitely one of the better values for the money.


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## motomech (May 17, 2010)

Thank you for the review cat!
I just received mine and agree it would really be nice with a flood lens.
Please let us know if you find one (the lens measures 44.7mm od)
Thanks again for all that you do!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

motomech said:


> Thank you for the review cat!
> I just received mine and agree it would really be nice with a flood lens.
> Please let us know if you find one (the lens measures 44.7mm od)
> Thanks again for all that you do!


You're welcome. I might try one of the flood lenses from Action LED. ActionLED has a couple small items I want so I'll probably order one and see if I can make it work. Likely it will be a bit smaller than I need ...BUT...I might be able to glue it to the the lens already in place IF the back side is flat.


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## motomech (May 17, 2010)

I ordered one of Action LED flood lenses and the back is indeed flat.
The lens on the K/D tri clone is glass while the action led flood is plastic.
Will need to think about the best epoxy for this union.
the flood lens does a nice job of widening the beam while sacrificing a bit of throw.
I may tweak this a bit by cutting the flood lens in half horizontally and cover the lower led only.
This should widen the beam pattern just in front of the bike yet still give good throw.
Wont be the first or last time I take a perfectly good design and improve it to a point that it is no longer useful!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Nice to hear that indeed the back is flat. I hope to find the time to order the flood lens in the next couple days. My plan is to experiment with the lens to see how it works before I decided to mount it permanently. I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of throw if the overall spread of the beam improves, particularly when on lower output levels.

In my case I really don't plan to use the lamp that much anyway. I do this for curiosities sake and because I've always wanted to see just how well one of these "flood lenses" actually work. Too bad they don't make more than one type of flood lens. Hmmm...makes me wonder if there's a Tri-Optic out there ( similar to what the Gemini Olympia uses ) that might be adapted to the K/D lamp. If there was that would certainly be the better solution.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

@Cat. Don't know what are exactly measures of this 3 led, but if they are near 35mm diameter then Ledil has TIR optics that might suits - Led lighting - Products | Ledil 
There are also medium and wide angle options - search for CUTE lens. Farnell had them in stock quite some time ago.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Oh crap!!*

I got messing with the KD 3-up tonight and took off the front. Good news and bad news; the good news first. The LED's are easy to get to. The bad news; the LED's were just being held down by the reflector assembly. Actually, not as bad as it might sound. Apparently they were initially held in place with some thermal paste but the paste had turned to powder and all three LED's were just setting there loose when I removed the reflector assembly. :madman:

On a side note I'm not sure the LED's are XM-L2 U2. They might be but I can't confirm that yet.

Anyway, I need to clean the emitter heat sink ( which is wide and looks good ) and then put some thermal paste in that won't turn to dust. Otherwise nothing else looks to be bad....at the moment.


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