# ebike shilling really really sucks.



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Why isn't Walt on MTBR anymore?


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

My take:

Walts post in that hyperlink is a very brief synopsis of things. I don't think it's entirely right or entirely wrong, just brief.

If what happened to him had happened to me I'd have left as well, and it is truly a shame he's no longer here.

I wish he was still here, his contribution especially to this sub-forum were always brilliant.

DB


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Can anyone explain what happened? 

I distinctly remember members questioning his Mod status when he posted things they didn’t like, in the eBike forum, despite the fact that he didn’t moderate there.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

That sucks. Walt is a smart guy, & always willing to help. That’s a loss for this sub-forum for sure. 


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

1 cog frog said:


> That sucks. Walt is a smart guy, & always willing to help. That's a loss for this sub-forum for sure.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's a loss to the whole site, he was a good guy on here.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

Major bummer- a huge forum contributor, super knowledgeable/willing to share info and super awesome to talk to real-time.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

chazpat said:


> It's a loss to the whole site, he was a good guy on here.


Agreed.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

Le Duke said:


> Can anyone explain what happened?


All I will say is that I back 100% Walt's reason for leaving. He should still be here and his contribution will be missed.

And I think (personally) that there IS a place for pedal-assist bikes if they open up recreational riding to people who could otherwise not experience things "we" take for granted.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

driver bob said:


> All I will say is that I back 100% Walt's reason for leaving. He should still be here and his contribution will be missed.
> 
> And I think (personally) that there IS a place for pedal-assist bikes if they open up recreational riding to people who could otherwise not experience things "we" take for granted.


The trouble with electric mopeds is that there's such a financially/selfishly motivated push to label them 'bicycles.' Identify them as their own sport and i suspect a lot of vitriol will evaporate. This is just another example of ebike greed (and i don't mean ebikes themselves) negatively impacting cycling. It sucks.

I'm really bummed about walt's departure, he ran a good ship. This forum and velocipede are the only active framebuilding forums i know of, and V salon feels sorta 'inadvertently hostile' to casual builders. And it's all roadie shiz. I lurk, but never want to participate there. Does anyone know of other good mtb focused ones?

Thanks for participating in the thread, bob.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

scottzg said:


> Why isn't Walt on MTBR anymore?


Wow!


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Can anyone explain what happened?
> 
> I distinctly remember members questioning his Mod status when he posted things they didn't like, in the eBike forum, despite the fact that he didn't moderate there.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Might have something to do with this:

https://forums.mtbr.com/e-bikes/word-e-bike-forum-moderator-mtbbiker-guidelines-1103825.html

As much as the tone patrol keeps their eyes peeled on the rest of the site, the shitposting in the ebike subforum is a bit much.


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

This is terrible. Walt put a lot of work in here over the years and deserves a lot of respect for that.
This industry is bullshit and the shills are the worst. Glad Walt is keeping his soul clean.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

@#$& everything about this. Gives me pause as to whether I want to continue posting here at all.


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## compositepro (Jun 21, 2007)

Drew Diller said:


> @#$& everything about this. Gives me pause as to whether I want to continue posting here at all.


happens to every forum eventually ....you makes your choices

20 years later people having different opinions to the site owners , they come and go these places

This industry is bullshit


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

The crazy thing is, Walt wasn't really anti ebike and always stayed civil. I guess something went down that I don't know about but it seems that if he was no longer welcome here by the owners, a large portion of us are no longer welcome here as well. I kind of suspected this site was headed toward a tipping point.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Well, that's total bullshit. I completely respected Walt perspective on multiple topics, and agree that he didn't come across as anti ebike...just put out there practical, realistic issues with them. I think I'm going to take Drew's idea to heart, and call it quits with this forum. I'm out, and I think I'm going to be happier for it. Later all.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> Can anyone explain what happened?
> 
> I distinctly remember members questioning his Mod status when he posted things they didn't like, in the eBike forum, despite the fact that he didn't moderate there.


Yeah, there're a number of little bitches around here that whine about stuff like that.

Big loss.


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## Erichimedes (Jul 30, 2010)

Interesting how sensitive MTBR is about people posting here who promote their own products. Now an incredibly valuable member of the site gets asked to leave for not promoting MTBR's agenda?

Not happy at all about this. I was always surprised just how helpful Walt is willing to be when asked any array of questions. Definitely a loss to this site.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

compositepro said:


> happens to every forum eventually ....you makes your choices
> 
> 20 years later people having different opinions to the site owners , they come and go these places
> 
> This industry is bullshit


I've run and moderated a forum before, I would not want to do it again. That said, I don't know what is so wrong about the Reddit approach to moderating: if people wanna get upset and act the fool, just lock the thread. I can't believe Walt is getting railroaded over one subforum! Very upsetting. Is catering to one niche of customer really worth alienating your other potential customers?

I know another guy who got kicked out of here years ago and he started his own forum, but I'm not sure I even want to link to it. At least, with this person I'm referring to, he was (and is) _incredibly_ abrasive at times. But Walt was not (and is not).

This whole thing smacks of the "There's good people on both sides" drivel that is so popular these days. Nope. Nope nope nope nope. Apples and oranges!!

I mean I got kicked from a gaming forum because I went slightly off topic in a thread for one sentence. That forum is dead.

And the Facebook page for frame building is a *jungle*.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

Erichimedes said:


> Now an incredibly valuable member of the site gets asked to leave for not promoting MTBR's agenda?


He was not asked to leave, see my post #2 in this thread.

And Walt's been inactive here since July 1st after things went down in mid-late June.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

@DarkMeat: If you believe things are unfair then report the post or send me a PM with a link and I'll look into it.

Nothing been reported to me for a while in there after a few troll accounts were dealt with.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Drew Diller said:


> @#$& everything about this. Gives me pause as to whether I want to continue posting here at all.


Agreed.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

driver bob said:


> He was not asked to leave, see my post #2 in this thread.
> 
> And Walt's been inactive here since July 1st after things went down in mid-late June.


Well, that certainly puts his post in a different light, doesn't it?


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

richde said:


> Well, that certainly puts his post in a different light, doesn't it?


No, not really.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

richde said:


> Well, that certainly puts his post in a different light, doesn't it?


Not at all.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

scottzg said:


> No, not really.





life behind bars said:


> Not at all.





> The long story short is: the owners of the site made it clear I wasn't welcome anymore, because I wasn't interested in helping them promote e-bikes


The site has a section for emtbs, it doesn't "promote" them any more than it "promotes" 26" bikes, fat bikes, racers of just about any type, women, men over 50, etc...it just provides a space for those that use them. It also has rules in sections where people just can't seem to control themselves like the ebike and women's sections.

He may have felt unwelcome for his trolling the ebike section, but that's all on him (and the others that do it). Apparently that was a critical part of his MTBR experience, and somehow that's someone else's fault. That didn't have to have anything to do with whatever else he did here, but he chose to make it that way and now he pretends that he's the victim.

He knew the rules, *he was supposed to enforce the rules*, he felt the need to ignore them and now feels the need to pull the victim card when nobody did anything to him.

Serious question: He's not banned, still a mod, what "unwelcomeness" did he experience that wasn't warranted?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

richde said:


> The site has a section for emtbs, it doesn't "promote" them any more than it "promotes" 26" bikes, fat bikes, racers of just about any type, women, men over 50, etc...it just provides a space for those that use them. It also has rules in sections where people just can't seem to control themselves like the ebike and women's sections.
> 
> He may have felt unwelcome for his trolling the ebike section, but that's all on him (and the others that do it). Apparently that was a critical part of his MTBR experience, and somehow that's someone else's fault. That didn't have to have anything to do with whatever else he did here, but he chose to make it that way and now he pretends that he's the victim.
> 
> ...


Would you please provide a quote where Walt was trolling? I saw posts more like this:



Walt said:


> To be fair, they weren't concerned with mountain biking at all, I think. The money in bikes has and always will be in road and hybrid/commuter bikes. Their focus was on that. I believe they've said publicly that another category for e-mtb would have been a good idea (presumably the EU Class 1 standard).
> 
> I'm not sure going back and changing all that legislation is realistic, given the low (from the perspective of the wider world) stakes involved. Enabling people to ride on commuter paths and bike lanes without getting insurance/registration/driver's license was a slam dunk idea. E-mtb was at best, an afterthought. It might seem like a big deal to us, but I'm guessing it wasn't even a consideration at the time.
> 
> ...


And Walt was not a moderator in the bike forum so he was not "suppose to enforce the rules", he was just another member like you.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Sad news.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

richde said:


> The site has a section for emtbs, it doesn't "promote" them any more than it "promotes" 26" bikes, fat bikes, racers of just about any type, women, men over 50, etc...it just provides a space for those that use them. It also has rules in sections where people just can't seem to control themselves like the ebike and women's sections.
> 
> He may have felt unwelcome for his trolling the ebike section, but that's all on him (and the others that do it). Apparently that was a critical part of his MTBR experience, and somehow that's someone else's fault. That didn't have to have anything to do with whatever else he did here, but he chose to make it that way and now he pretends that he's the victim.
> 
> ...


Walt never trolled, nor was a mod there. He owns an ebike and was involved with mtb advocacy in PC, since he was realistic about the pros and cons of ebike usage on multiuse trails, he was often lumped into the "haters" by the devotees.

Fc is heavily pro ebike, you must not notice the ebike ads that run in the sidebar, he wants the clicks.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

chazpat said:


> Would you please provide a quote where Walt was trolling? I saw posts more like this:
> 
> And Walt was not a moderator in the bike forum so he was not "suppose to enforce the rules", he was just another member like you.


Mods aren't "just another member," they may not moderate any particular forum, but as a moderator they should at least know how one should act and act that way.

Again, he wasn't banned, still had mod status....if he were actually unwelcome, AT LEAST one of those things wouldn't be true.

"Hey, could you stop posting in that sub-forum that you have no actual interest in, or at least tone it down a bit...maybe try following the rules posted?"
"I CAN'T TAKE THIS UNWELCOMNESS!!"



Harryman said:


> Walt never trolled, nor was a mod there. He owns an ebike and was involved with mtb advocacy in PC, since he was realistic about the pros and cons of ebike usage on multiuse trails, he was often lumped into the "haters" by the devotees.
> 
> Fc is heavily pro ebike, you must not notice the ebike ads that run in the sidebar, he wants the clicks.


Selling ads doesn't make someone "pro" anything. You're trying so hard to justify your imaginary point that it just looks silly. According to you, acknowledging the very existence of ebikes makes someone biased. Because your view is so "unbiased," right?

Apparently Fc is also biased towards Robert Axle, Cambria Bike, Lowes, Patagonia, Haro and anyone else that GOOGLE decides that is a good choice for placement on the site. You realize they're google ads, right? Mouseover one and the link starts with googleads. One day you might figure out how saying this stuff makes you look.

The only "con" of ebike usage is that it's an additional person on the trails, you can create as many of your own fun little theories about people on ebikes (which would be applicable to non-assisted riders as well) as you want, but it's still best and most politely described as "trolling." There's no additional damage, no danger not already inherent in the sport, no nothing. So if that's what you're referring to, you're proving my point. You're just too biased and wrapped up about what others do to notice it.

Ebikes exist, people buy them, and they're allowed on a bunch of trails. Grow up and deal with it like adults. Do you continually rag on people who have different tastes in food, sexual partners, cars, etc? So why do you do it to people who want a slightly different cycling experience? What do we call people that do that?


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

richde said:


> Mods aren't "just another member," they may not moderate any particular forum, but as a moderator they should at least know how one should act and act that way.
> 
> Again, he wasn't banned, still had mod status....if he were actually unwelcome, AT LEAST one of those things wouldn't be true.
> 
> ...


You still haven't demonstrated any single instance of Walt trolling the e-bike forum. The rest of your diatribe is just your biased opinion.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

life behind bars said:


> You still haven't demonstrated any single instance of Walt trolling the e-bike forum. The rest of your diatribe is just your biased opinion.


I read a lot of Walt's posts in the moped forum and he wasn't trolling anyone. He was ridiculously reasonable and if folks who want to see dirt mopeds proliferate in North America followed his advice they'd have faster/more success.

Walt put a lot his time into making MTBR a better place to hang out so if he says he had to choose between helping MTBR promote dirt mopeds or say what he really thought I'll take him at face value.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> Yeah, there're a number of little bitches around here that whine about stuff like that.


Quoting myself for truth.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

vikb said:


> Walt put a lot his time into making MTBR a better place to hang out so if he says he had to choose between helping MTBR promote dirt mopeds or say what he really thought I'll take him at face value.


Well said!

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

I wish there was a way to just not see the e bike part of the forum at all. I have ridden them, they are cool for some things, but in my mind, I compartmentalize motorized biking and mountain biking separately, just like I compartmentalize randonneuring separately from mountain biking, gravel biking, commuting/utility cycling, etc. I used to even own a motocross bike, so I am not against motorized cycling. But that's not why I come to MTBR and I can tell by the constant hate and trolling when I inadvertently find myself reading an e-bike discussion that I'm not the only one. Why can't they just have their forum and we have ours?


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

twodownzero said:


> I wish there was a way to just not see the e bike part of the forum at all.


Just don't click on the link to open the sub-forum up?

Before I started to help moderate here there were large parts of the forum I never opened, including the e-bike section.


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## UltraMTB1 (Nov 23, 2019)

How does anyone actually get this butthurt over an e-bike of all things?!?

Let's try act like we're grown.


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

richde said:


> maybe try following the rules posted?"


What rules did he break, and where?


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

dr.welby said:


> What rules did he break, and where?


Oh boy... he didn't.

Something happened and as I said in Post #2: If it had happened to me I would be gone as well.

Walt chooses not to post here anymore.

The statement on his own site is how he feels about things but (and I know what happened) I don't fully agree with it.

He didn't "break" any rules.


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## UltraMTB1 (Nov 23, 2019)

So he quit of his own volition yet claims he was forced out.

How disingenuous. 

E-bikes ain't that important, y'all. If you don't like tech, go back to living in a cave. Don't bother starting a fire for warmth, either. Or using stones to carve drawings on walls. That's all too high tech.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

UltraMTB1 said:


> So he quit of his own volition yet claims he was forced out.


A bit of both went on.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well damn that sucks. Walt has always been awesome. But the ebike issue has driven many off of here because of the handful of immature people that couldn't accept facts nor willing to do any work. Just acted self entitled. Always made the situation and debates very heated (and often beyond childish), Walt was one of the most level headed people if he chose to involve himself. Seemed more about trying to get folks to understand reality and point ebikers as a whole in the direction to improve their access.

I didnt even read the situation that happened to him yet, simply that he left and it involved ebikes pretty much covered it knowing myself how ignorant things get over them.

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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

life behind bars said:


> You still haven't demonstrated any single instance of Walt trolling the e-bike forum. The rest of your diatribe is just your biased opinion.


It's actually a very accurate rebuttal of the bs posts I was responding to. I guess you'd prefer to ignore that part.

What was he so fired up about, google ads? Assuming that he was trolling was giving him the maximum credit that I possibly could, but if he's just wrapped around the axle about google ads and the very existence of a forum (the extent of MTBR "shilling")...well, that's pretty telling.

Don't click on the forum, how hard is that?


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

vikb said:


> I read a lot of Walt's posts in the moped forum and he wasn't trolling anyone. He was ridiculously reasonable and if folks who want to see dirt mopeds proliferate in North America followed his advice they'd have faster/more success.
> 
> Walt put a lot his time into making MTBR a better place to hang out so if he says he had to choose between helping MTBR promote dirt mopeds or say what he really thought I'll take him at face value.


Not to say that they're equivalent, but calling ebikes "mopeds" is trolling as sure as calling a black person the n-word is racist. Trolls and racists never realize that because it's such a big part of their identity.



driver bob said:


> A bit of both went on.


Schrodinger's Forum?

Either he was forced out, or he wasn't.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Not a troll AT ALL.

Comparing to racism is kind of ignorant.

Here the facts of what a moped is and where the name came from. Exactly, by definition, long before ebikes where anything but cool projects DIYers made.

This is the problem, people cant stand fact and get upset, going as far as comparing to hate speech and racism when facts prove them wrong. So sad to see the same mentality taking over MTBR.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moped

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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

richde said:


> Not to say that they're equivalent, but calling ebikes "mopeds" is trolling as sure as calling a black person the n-word is racist. Trolls and racists never realize that because it's such a big part of their identity.


Wow!

Per Webster's dictionary-








This isn't really that important though.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

FFS... I get enough internet arguing about pedal-assist/e-bike/moped in the actual e-bike forum. Please let's not start that here.


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## UltraMTB1 (Nov 23, 2019)

lol, so much holier than thou ranting and whining about how "pure" mountain bikes are compared to e-bikes. 

These are the same guys with 5k gopro helmet cams with state of the art image stabilization, $400 troy lee designs MIPS helmets, $300 oakleys, full body armour kits, chest mount go pros, riding smooth fire roads with 190mm of travel on $12K bikes. Yeah, like anyone needs to see 4 hours of footage of their 4.3 mph descents in 5K 120 fps image stabilization recorded for posterity.

Then they turn around like the total hypocrites that they are and claim that adding a 15.5 mph speed governed mid motor is desecration of "their" trails with "too much technology." Somehow they need $30K worth of tech to ride slower than they can walk yet somehow they are in an archimedean position of moral authority vis a vis e-mtb riders.

You can't really speak rationally to middle aged dentists going through a midlife crisis lol. Let them have their tartar sauce.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

UltraMTB1 said:


> lol, so much holier than thou ranting and whining about how "pure" mountain bikes are compared to e-bikes.
> 
> These are the same guys with 5k gopro helmet cams with state of the art image stabilization, $400 troy lee designs MIPS helmets, $300 oakleys, full body armour kits, chest mount go pros, riding smooth fire roads with 190mm of travel on $12K bikes. Yeah, like anyone needs to see 4 hours of footage of their 4.3 mph descents in 5K 120 fps image stabilization recorded for posterity.
> 
> ...


Envious much?


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

scottzg said:


> Wow!
> 
> Per Webster's dictionary-
> View attachment 1295425
> ...


That isn't really that important though...as I continue to argue the point. We'll just agree to disagree after I make my point and you STFU, right?

The ebikes in question have to be pedaled. The only reason to pedal a moped is to start them or if you run out of gas. So not a moped any more than a regular bike is.

Could you call a throttle controlled hub-motor bike a moped? Sure, because it doesn't have to be pedaled to provide power.



> Trolling - (verb), as it relates to internet, is the deliberate act, (by a Troll - noun or adjective), of making random unsolicited and/or controversial comments on various internet forums with the intent to provoke an emotional knee jerk reaction from unsuspecting readers to engage in a fight or argument


You know the right word, you just refuse to use it. It's no different than if when I quoted your post to substitute "dumbass" for your name. To think you mean anything other than offense is to insult your intelligence.

There shouldn't be any arguing about it, Bob...that.is.the.point.


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## 1niceride (Jan 30, 2004)

Mountain Bike Action...the gold standard of bike mags...classifies ebikes as electric assisted bikes. Issue settled..

Why so many get butt hurt so easily? Must be a joy to live with..


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Technically the pedaling requirement is easily bypassed and was only done to not risk being classified as a moped so they had a better chance at access which means more sales. Corporate ploys.

Personally I could care less. Want to ride a pedal assist on a trail, let's go I ride with you till I cant keep up. But keep it legal. And stop denying the facts of what it is and both sides need to stop being hateful about it. Ebike has a motor, cant argue that. So stop doing it and purists need to pull the tampons out of their butts. 

If people would get along access could grow, common ground found and improve the sport for everyone. But instead everyone gets butt hurt and tries to argue undeniable fact, which only hurts their argument not helps it.


Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

richde said:


> The ebikes in question have to be pedaled. The only reason to pedal a moped is to start them or if you run out of gas. So not a moped any more than a regular bike is.


Oh FFS. The throttle being connected to the cranks is a red herring. You know that, you're just spreading a Big Lie. All you've done here is discredit, demonize, and mislead. Bad faith actor.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

scottzg said:


> Why isn't Walt on MTBR anymore?


Agreed. This E-bike crap sucks. Before this thread gets binned...

Thanks for posting this and bringing it to light. I didn't know what went down or why I had seen less from Walt recently.

This is a shame to lose such a valuable member of the community. The reasoning behind it upsets me, and makes me not want to continue contributing here.


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## UltraMTB1 (Nov 23, 2019)

life behind bars said:


> Envious much?


Of old dentists who ride slow? LMAO!

It does crack me up when their plastic bikes cause them so much misery:

https://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/brand-snobs-1114545.html#post14449009


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

UltraMTB1 said:


> Of old dentists who ride slow? LMAO!
> 
> It does crack me up when their plastic bikes cause them so much misery:
> 
> https://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/brand-snobs-1114545.html#post14449009


Your username seems to suggest you are the one with ego issues. Especially if you are riding an ebike rather than an actual mtb. Fantasize much?


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Is there an example of where ebikes have "increased access"? Keep hearing that one, not sure how it works.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

WHALENARD said:


> Is there an example of where ebikes have "increased access"? Keep hearing that one, not sure how it works.


Bentonville is one, a majority of the state of Arkansas actually.

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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Bentonville is one, a majority of the state of Arkansas actually.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


I was speaking to ebikes gaining access to trails that were closed for both ebikes and traditional bikes alike. I'm assuming that's the theory put forth when it's said?

The riding in Bentonville and area looks like it's taking off. Need to get back down there.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

scottzg said:


> Oh FFS. The throttle being connected to the cranks is a red herring. You know that, you're just spreading a Big Lie. All you've done here is discredit, demonize, and mislead. Bad faith actor.


What are you talking about?

Don't project your "discredit, demonize and mislead" onto me, buddy.

You don't have an actual argument so you toss your word vomit around as if it means something...look at yourself, look at what you're doing.

Grow up.



WHALENARD said:


> Is there an example of where ebikes have "increased access"? Keep hearing that one, not sure how it works.


Look at you, moving the goalposts, thinking you're clever.

Ebike riders, like everyone else, spend money, that money encourages communities to improve riding opportunities so they can get some of that money.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> Technically the pedaling requirement is easily bypassed and was only done to not risk being classified as a moped so they had a better chance at access which means more sales. Corporate ploys.
> 
> Personally I could care less. Want to ride a pedal assist on a trail, let's go I ride with you till I cant keep up. But keep it legal. And stop denying the facts of what it is and both sides need to stop being hateful about it. Ebike has a motor, cant argue that. So stop doing it and purists need to pull the tampons out of their butts.
> 
> ...


"Everybody" isn't butthurt. If the butthurt could stop being butthurt we could all get along.

Because you seem to be confused,maybe this will help:
https://www.google.com/search?q=moped


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

driver bob said:


> Just don't click on the link to open the sub-forum up?
> 
> Before I started to help moderate here there were large parts of the forum I never opened, including the e-bike section.


I try not to, but my surfing the site often begins with "new topics." And e-bikes area often "new topics" in the way that link defines.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

It's time to lock this thread. Its run its course. I regret participating.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

Locked at request of OP.

@scottzg: I'm sorry it went off course. I apologize that I wasn't able to provide as much clarity as to why Walt doesn't participate here anymore as many would have liked.

DB


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