# Question on torque wrenches....



## randum (May 17, 2016)

Apologies for being too wordy. i tend to write how i think.

Over the past while, i have slowly been purchasing tools to enable me to maintain my bike and replace basic parts on it.

I have always veered off from torque wrench due to the sheer number of them and their price (i.e. up into the 100's), as well as 'calibration' issues. Too much confusion and money for me at the time. Recently, after some research, I also learned that some even recommend having at least two torque wrenches for the lower and upper range screws.

By the way, my bike is an entry level (1 k) Giant, aluminium with Shimano parts.

For the high-range torque wrenches, which i believe are for bottom brackets and cassette lock rings, i plan to just bring it into an LBS to tighten it property.( I would do the actual BB or cassette install and replacement myself). Since these components are not replaced frequently, it may make better economic sense for me; at least for the time being. *Q1: Is this a good strategy for now?*

As for the lower torque wrenches.. *Q2: Do I really need one?*If so, are the follow wrenches decent:

X-Tools Essential Torque Wrench Set

Topeak Combo Torq Wrench

*Q3: How can i tell if the wrench is accurate and how would i calibrate it?

*


----------



## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

Do you need a torque wrench?

No. If you are not torquing on carbon parts, you do not.


That said, if you are the ham fisted, "brand new to working on things" person, a torque wrench would be helpful.
I rarely torque anything, but I've also got decades of experience. I actually tested myself, and tighteded a pair of bolts, then checked the torque to see how close I was. I was within 2% of the recommended torque for both bolts. 



When in doubt, crank on it until something snaps, then back off 1/4 turn.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Depends what you're tightening for things like brake calipers, cassette and bb I just do them up tight. I use a torque wrench only on my stem, clamping the steerer and the bars (which are carbon) so it's more important that I get it right.


----------



## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

What do you need a torque wrench for? Are there any carbon parts on your bike?

I’d go with a good repair stand, and a wheel trying stand first. Torque wrenches can be a bit finicky and won’t really get much use.


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

The beefy components/bolts just need to be good and tight. Not super precise. 

The low torque stuff needs to be precise, over or under tightening sensitive stuff will quickly yield negative results. 

Generally you can judge the required torque by the size of the bolt. A 2mm bolt needs very little torque, same with 3mm. A 4-5mm bolt should still be properly torqued, not hammered on. A 6-8mm bolt can be cranked down good and tight. No need to get carried away but you're unlikely to hurt a big bolt.


----------



## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

You can get an idea of the acceptable torque when you loosen the bolt.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

I torque everything, but I use titanium and carbon parts. It's good practice to correctly tighten every bolt on your bike, but lower end parts have a much bigger range before you damage them.
Great accurate kit.
https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Bike-Too...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=9D0Y24KMKFTW46M33TRS

This is my go to torque wrench, but it is overkill for most people. I intend to give it to my grand kids someday.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00461546E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1


----------



## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

I may get flamed for this, but I really think that for our uses a cheap Harbor Freight torque wrench is just fine. We just need to make sure we're close to the torque spec and not to overtighten. HF torque wrenches I've tested can be as much as 5-10% off, but for tightening fasteners on carbon parts that's close enough.

In a past life I used to assemble space-qualified hardware in a clean lab and every fastener's torque had to meet an exact spec. There we used very accurate torque wrenches calibrated on a set schedule. There that level of precision is appropriate. In a garage bike shop it's not.


----------



## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

randum said:


> As for the lower torque wrenches.. *Q2: Do I really need one?*If so, are the follow wrenches decent:
> 
> X-Tools Essential Torque Wrench Set
> 
> Topeak Combo Torq Wrench


depends on what you think "decent" is.

the x-tools' dial is a bit vague for my taste

topeak is non click type, which I hear is fine for working on bikes, but my thought is that if you are going to spend money on a torque wrench I'd rather get a clicker one.

Certainly, like many people here with experience has mentioned, just get it tight and you'll be fine.

Check this one out, if you haven't already


----------



## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

eb1888 said:


> You can get an idea of the acceptable torque when you loosen the bolt.


Umm, not really. When loosening a bolt one must overcome static friction to get the bolt moving which is higher than overcoming kinetic friction. When tightening a bolt the torque is generally achieved while the bolt is moving, so you are dealing with kinetic friction. You may have to apply 30-40% more torque to get a bolt moving to loosen it vs tightening it to a given torque. Then add tread locker into the mix...


----------



## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

you can calibrate a torque wrench at home if you have a secure vise to lock the wrench down and a calibrated weight or scale and accurate beam length

at X beam distance Y weight will put Z torque.

https://www.wikihow.com/Calibrate-a-Torque-Wrench

you really need a 5nm-7nm wrench for carbon handlebars, stems, seat components

and need ~7nm-->25nm for suspension pivots

I'd say if you had one option a 5nm is the most needed


----------



## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

alexbn921 said:


> I torque everything, but I use titanium and carbon parts. It's good practice to correctly tighten every bolt on your bike, but lower end parts have a much bigger range before you damage them.
> Great accurate kit.
> https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Bike-Too...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=9D0Y24KMKFTW46M33TRS


I was in the middle of writing my reply about this one. I've just gotten it, how do you like it so far? good, I assume? or you wouldn't have recommended it.



alexbn921 said:


> This is my go to torque wrench, but it is overkill for most people. I intend to give it to my grand kids someday.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00461546E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1


That CDI, though. when I was researching which torque wrench I should get, I came across CDI. Then I closed the browser tab quicker than it opened. that's some high-end stuff.


----------



## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

also

do NOT order a -pricey- torque wrench from amazon (the bike rated spring type are ok, they don't get whacked in shipping by apes). I tried that 3 times and each time the packaging was smashed, and the wrench was wholly inaccurate upon arrival. if you are spending big bucks on a torque wrench find another supplier. all mine were handled roughly for what is basically scientific measuring equipment and each one had to be returned as failure upon arrival (massive negative and massive positive measure when should be zeroed..because it was thrown around during packing and shipping)

those little spin doctor small torque wrenches (spring) with some bits in a plastic case for roughly 40-60 bucks is a nice little kit and good enough for your bike

https://www.performancebike.com/spin-doctor-torque-wrench-set-sd-tw/p914535


----------



## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Torqkeys are awesome. They're preset to only one torque, usually 4-7nm. At about 20 bucks, they're affordable. 

Beam torque wrenches are very accurate and they last forever. Its plenty for bike use.

I have CDI torque wrenches at work, but its too much for home use on a bike.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

tweeder82o said:


> I was in the middle of writing my reply about this one. I've just gotten it, how do you like it so far? good, I assume? or you wouldn't have recommended it.


I'm on their mailing list so i got the kit for 29.99. At that price it was a steal.
The bits are high quality and the wrench is calibrated correctly(I did check). Overall if you add a craftsman 1/4 screwdriver and you have something for almost every bolt on your bike. Way better setup than a Y wrench or the preset stuff. I also have a Y wrench, but it's never the first tool I grab.


----------



## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

It's easy to check the calibration of a torque wrench with a piece of string and a fish scale. Clamp a socket vertically in a vice, put the torque wrench on it, put a loop of string around the handle and pull perpendicularly with the fish scale. Force on the scale times the distance from the socket to the string on the handle is torque. You need to convert units as necessary.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I use a CDI torque key set at 5Nm for clamp stuff. Frankly, it's faster to use the torque key there, especially for stem face plates that you tighten in a set pattern to avoid stressing and cracking the part. The absolute torque is less important, but the consistency between the 4 bolts on the face plate is important. Also worth noting that dropper posts also tend to have a max torque spec, to avoid smooshing the internals and interfering with function.

I have a beam style torque wrench that I use for anything else. Crank bolts in particular. There are a fair number of crank bolts with 50Nm+/- torques, and the issue there if you don't sufficiently tighten them is that they loosen up on you. Crank bolts are tough because the crank itself wants to rotate on you and that can mess up your "personal calibration" if you have any you've developed over time.


----------



## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I do not F around with most of the stuff on my bike without a torque wrench. Having stuff come loose, over-tightened failures are not worth the risk.


----------



## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

There was a good thread here a month back, or a bit more. Maybe in the Tooltime area. It had a few nice links with decent products. If I get time, I'll try to find that thread and link it.

*EDIT*: https://forums.mtbr.com/tooltime/anyone-use-tekton-capri-torque-wrenches-1099809.html
Something worth mentioning for the consumer is to check the range of accuracy. If the values you are working with fall into the range of more accurate you'll be good.
For example, I am going to purchase an air pressure gauge for my plus tires. There is a 15psi model that claims higher accuracy between like 6 and 10psi (for example). For me the 15psi model to use on my 15psi bike wouldn't be acceptable as I can already 'guess' it's about 15 with my floor pump. I would need the 25psi gauge for increased accuracy at 15psi -based on manufacturers listed accuracy chart.

I haven't yet purchaseda torque wrench yet but I do intend to for those sensitive little suckers. Most bike fasteners I'm careful enough that I feel confident.



wayold said:


> I may get flamed for this, but I really think that for our uses a cheap Harbor Freight torque wrench is just fine. We just need to make sure we're close to the torque spec and not to overtighten. HF torque wrenches I've tested can be as much as 5-10% off, but for tightening fasteners on carbon parts that's close enough.
> 
> In a past life I used to assemble space-qualified hardware in a clean lab and every fastener's torque had to meet an exact spec. There we used very accurate torque wrenches calibrated on a set schedule. There that level of precision is appropriate. In a garage bike shop it's not.


Why is it acceptable to over torque a brake lever to a carbon bar by 10%, but it's not okay to over torque an engine head bolt by 10%?


----------



## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

Forest Rider said:


> Why is it acceptable to over torque a brake lever to a carbon bar by 10%, but it's not okay to over torque an engine head bolt by 10%?


all torques matter?


----------



## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

tweeder82o said:


> all torques matter?


I assumed all torqued values matter but some say "this is only a bike so it can be less accurate" (according to posts similar to the one I quoted).


----------



## tweeder82o (Oct 1, 2018)

Forest Rider said:


> I assumed all torqued values matter but some say "this is only a bike so it can be less accurate" (according to posts similar to the one I quoted).


i know, i was just joking. Hence the Mr bean photo. I have two torque wrenches after all.


----------



## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Forest Rider said:


> Why is it acceptable to over torque a brake lever to a carbon bar by 10%, but it's not okay to over torque an engine head bolt by 10%?


it depends on the bolt. are the engine bolts TTY ? if so then it matters


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

If you have been a professional using a torque wrench for 10+ years you should be able to get most fasteners close enough. You will have finely tuned your feel using multiple styles of wrenches of tons of different fasteners. The thing is that you probably own several tools to do the job right and know that it takes zero extra time to pick up the correct tool for the job. You have also seen scores of failures from inattention over the years, so you tend to do it right the first time.

The new guy/gal working on there bike for the first time or trying different maintenance is going to be less skilled at telling how tight is just right. Most people error on too much, as it feels safer to make sure it's monkey tight. These are the individuals that will benefit the most from the proper tools but tend not to own/invest in them.

Tools don't have to be expensive. Most of the time the cheap stuff will work, it just won't last in an industrial setting.

Get a torque wrench and use it! The Pro tools one is a good investment. It will save you pain down the road.

Get a derailleur hanger tool! They are all bent, even new ones. This is where 99% of shifting problems come from. It will last forever and your bikes will shift perfectly.

End of rant.


----------



## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

ya'll know a cringey feeling ? very popular bike shop at the end of an extremely popular MUP...they sell a lot of bikes and a ton of them have much CF. I went by one day needing to change the angle of the dangle and asked if I can borrow a torque wrench...they said we don' have one.....and were serious ...I didn't feel I was getting the shine (bought 3 bikes from them recently)

.....shudder.....


----------



## b rock (Jan 5, 2017)

randum said:


> *Q3: How can i tell if the wrench is accurate and how would i calibrate it?
> 
> *


I'd echo the recommendation of the beam style wrenches by previous posters. You know if they are zeroed just by looking at them, and getting them back to zero is not complicated. Plus, they tend to be relatively cheap.

In the past year, doing all my own service, I have only had one situation where I wished I had a clicker. I think I was replacing my rear shock on my carbon frame after doing a 50 hour service on it, and reaching around the bike while looking at the gauge was tricky, but not too bad.

I wouldn't recommend the style with the needle pointing at the plastic wedge though, as I received something like that for free with my bike, and quickly grew annoyed with how the plastic thing would move around, and just sighting it was kind of a pain.

My strategy was to find a couple of beam style wrenches with similar torque ranges to the discontinued Park Tool beam style torque wrenches (TW-1 and TW-2)


----------



## atarione (Aug 24, 2018)

127.0.0.1 said:


> ya'll know a cringey feeling ? very popular bike shop at the end of an extremely popular MUP...they sell a lot of bikes and a ton of them have much CF. I went by one day needing to change the angle of the dangle and asked if I can borrow a torque wrench...they said we don' have one.....and were serious ...I didn't feel I was getting the shine (bought 3 bikes from them recently)
> 
> .....shudder.....


I am a bit surprised.. however I know people who work for major bike companies / are professional racers that will assure you that their hands are all the torque setting tools they require.. and in fairness after one of these dudes helped me with my bike I checked it with a torque wrench later and he had got it pretty spot on...


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

b rock said:


> My strategy was to find a couple of beam style wrenches with similar torque ranges to the discontinued Park Tool beam style torque wrenches (TW-1 and TW-2)


I have one with Craftsman branding that looks exactly like the TW-2. A whole $25.


----------



## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

atarione said:


> ...people who work for major bike companies / are professional racers that will assure you that their hands are all the torque setting tools they require...


That doesn't fly working on airplanes or helicopters. Gotta use torque tools with current traceable calibrations.

Yeah. On bikes you can get a feel for things, but most will under-torque crank arm mount mounting bolts (either axial type or Shimano crank arm pinch bolts) if they haven't done it with torque wrench at least a few times. Most over-torque tiny fasteners. Again, you don't really know until you've done a bunch using a torque wrench to start to get a feel. And, if you're working on your own bike, it's your asset and ass, so it's up to you.

Torque on my moto rear axle nut is 108 Nm (80 ft-lb). That's tough to judge without a torque wrench. On my race bikes I did it often enough to not use one. Now, I do it so seldom I use a torque wrench.


----------



## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

when first started using a torque wrench most my settings were now tighter than hand. my gutentite meter had tendency to under-torque... except one bolt. any der anchor bolt. I hand do them to feels and it is tighter than specs 'cuz that 1986 incident 'one day it let go a in a crit...'


----------



## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

You can get a torque wrench from Harbor Freight for 10 dollars. While I have other and more expensive torque wrenches for tasks requiring that level of precision, there is nothing on a bike I can't do with a cheap torque wrench, so that's what I use.


----------



## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

I'd like to have some carbon components at my disposal as a learning experiment.

I like to tighten things just a little more than necessary. Still in the safe zone (I believe). Curious if I'd damage carbon bars with how I tighten the clamps.

As mentioned hundreds of times in multiple threads by many people "A good wrench can tell what a torque value is". Well I consider myself one of the guys that basically knows when to quit turning. I am not telling you I know what 5nm feels like (because I have never ever actually felt what 5nm is), but I can say "this feels safe". I may learn really fast that I really don't know what a safe value is if I can quickly damage carbon all the while thinking I'm better than that.
The only place I have carbon is the seat post clamp. I'm more gentle when tightening that screw than I am with any other screw on my bike. When I quit tightening I say to myself "I sure hope the post doesn't slip". ha

Biggest fear I have with not being tight enough is the screw vibrating loose.
On my dirt bike, I locktite the clutch and brake perch and tighten then just enough, and a little less. But that clamp force is still greater than a bicycle bar clamp.


----------



## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

I still have a hard time understanding why most say the 'close enough' is applipicable to bike work.

I guess if it's not carbon then that's a safe assessment. If a person is so okay with close enough, why use a torque wrench anyway? 

I torque my truck lug nuts all the time but haven't torqued a bicycle bolt. LOL I am not okay over torquing my lug nuts by 10%.


----------



## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

I just use a 1/4" drive automotive style torque wrench.


----------



## Kolchak (May 15, 2017)

I have also been using a harbor freight torque wrench for a long time, and have never had any issues with it. People make claims about calibration, but many can't really confirm that an expensive wrench is any more accurate. I've even read on here of people checking accuracy with a fishing scale as if that's any more accurate. I've also read of people using grease on threads and using same dry torque values, so in my opinion my cheap-o harbor freight gets me where i need to be and has yet to be an issue. It's probably more accurate than using no torque wrench at all.


----------



## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

Harold said:


> I have one with Craftsman branding that looks exactly like the TW-2. A whole $25.


Me too I have a craftsman tw2 and a park tw1 and have been very happy with both, probably would search for something smaller if I have to travel with that stuff in a tool box but for my home shop they work perfect and are relatively cheap

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## kevinRR (Apr 10, 2019)

A 1/4 inch torque wrench from Harbor Freight should be good enough to assemble a bike. I think I got my wrench for under $20. If you look at some reviews on Youtube they are not off by much from the more expensive torque wrench.


----------



## chewymilk99 (Nov 26, 2008)

I'm an industrial maintenance mechanic. I tighten bolts from 2.5mm (1 1/10 of a newton meter) to 42mm bolts (about 1491-3796 newton meters) Nothing I touch gets tightened (well the final lightning) without a torque wrench.
A few years ago I would have said no to Harbor Freights torque wrenches. But they have come a long way. 
I calibrate the 0-340 newton wrenches myself. And the Harbor Freight wrenches are usually either spot on, or off just a few (+or-) newtons. 
Don't buy allen keys or allen sockets there. Those are still hit or miss. 
Park makes these cheap beam type wrenches (the ones with the pointer) And they are pretty cheap. Some of them are light enough to carry when you ride.


----------



## randum (May 17, 2016)

hey guys, reporting back... so based on research and your comments, i have taken it that i should get a beam style torque wrench... i have looked online at nearby stores. here are two beam style torque wrenches that i found.

any recomendation.suggestion from the below for the purposes of cranks and cassette?

1. Performance Tool W3001C 1/2-inch Drive Torque Wrench. Reads from 0 to 150 feet/pound. link

2. 3/8 in. Drive Torque Wrench, Beam Type. max read is 75 feet/pound. link


----------



## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

you should really find a 1/4 which is more useful for bike stuff, you likely not gonna need to use a 3/8 much and it's harder to read small torque accurately 

between these 2 options 

get the 3/8 they will likely fit in all sockets you need to use without adapters, you don't need a 1/2 or a 150 f/lbs torque wrench it will make more difficult to get the correct torque since bikes only use small torque mostly 8, 5, 4...


----------



## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Accuracy is usually specified as a percentage at or near full scale. If the spec is +/- 3% on a 50Nm wrench, that could be as +/- 1.5 Nm at 5Nm. It's unlikely it's that bad, but it's generally best to use a wrench where you're using the upper 50% of its range.

In post #16 I describe how you might check a torque wrench. Doing this near the torque you'll be using, or over a range that spans the torques you expect to use is best.


----------



## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

Good thread.
I won’t work on my bikes without a torque wrench.


----------

