# Defining Downcountry - What is a downcountry bike?



## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

"MTBs for wearing spandex" would have saved disk space and bandwidth.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

yay, more division...

now get off my lawn!!!


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Was I supposed to read that before commenting?


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## Catmandoo (Dec 20, 2018)

Having just purchased a down country Specialized Epic Evo, I found it interseting that there were not many actual Cross Country bikes available, seems most manufacturers had already migrated to 120mm travel, as opposed to 100 as used by traditional XC. I looked at about a dozen, seriously considered 6, before getting the Epic,


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

You're wrong. A downcountry bike is a bike just slightly different than whatever you have now that makes you buy a brand new bike this year. 

Next year, downcountry will be just slightly different than downcountry last year. Requiring you to buy a new bike next year just to go down the same trails you went down just fine last year.


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

Doesn't this sound like every downcountry review ever?

"The 4.7-inch travel machine screamed uphill like a race bike, and the top-notch Fox Shox suspension smoothed the trail on descents, making it worth every foot of elevation gained on the climb."

"the ideal trailbike for the cross-country rider who wants premium suspension performance in a package capable of all-day excursions."

Review of Downcountry bike from 2011


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

r-rocket said:


> Doesn't this sound like every downcountry review ever?


These endless categories used to pester me to no end. Then I think I zero'd in on that it was the ugly consumerism it generated that irked me. The. Next. Thing. That. Will. Improve. My. Life. Somehow.

There's a bit of a pendulum shift lately, after everyone got the most capable bike... a critical mass of people were like.... "hold up. I used to have a light bike, why can't I have a light bike again?" So here we are. Which is pretty much what people liked about that old Trek from 2011.

So is a DC a trail bike with an emphasis on lighter weight and components? Or is a DC an XC bike built up to be less twitchy and on edge?

^I don't think it matters. And here's a bit of defense of the category - if you say "downcountry", I get a useful idea of what you are talking about. Necessary? Not at all.

A wee bit more defense of this category - I think it's good that mfgrs are making lighter trail bikes with purpose. I think this type of bike serves the needs for a great number of riders. I hope that trend continues; the pendulum just as easy could have shifted into even heavier burly trail bikes so I think the rebound is righting things some.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

A trail bike by any other name.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Jayem said:


> A trail bike by any other name.


Heh. You know - it was all that long ago I was annoyed by 'trail bike' too. "You mean, a mountain bike?" But I guess after all mountain reared its ugly head, we needed something to say - not XC and not AM. Same sheeet.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

IMO, it’s just a marketing ploy and no one has really attempted to make a “downcountry” bike.

If the company is just taking their XC bike and adding a 120 fork, that ain’t downcountry. Companies have had options on the race bikes for 100 and 120 builds forever. Like Yeti and Pivot calling the SB100 (they did) and Mach 4 SL “downcountry” is just a load of crap. That’s their XC race frame. 

If it comes with an XC rear shock, that ain’t it. It should be set up for more downhill, no? That means at LEAST a DPX/remote res type shock for more consistent DH performance and it SHOULD mean a LC compatible with coil, so you can rock the short travel coil setup, 100-110mm. Yes people, air shocks still suck compared to coil. A coil in-line would be a ton of fun on a bike like this.

In short, all ive seen are trail and XC bikes with trail components/parts and nothing I’d really call downcountry. The idea is to rock a short travel bike that pedals decent but can handle some pretty hard DH riding. That means 8” rotor up front at least, maybe 120-130mm travel, coil rear shock with ~110mm, 2.5front tire and 2.3 rear with decent internal width rims, etc.

The term is just a marketing fad.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Carl Mega said:


> Heh. You know - it was all that long ago I was annoyed by 'trail bike' too. "You mean, a mountain bike?" But I guess after all mountain reared its ugly head, we needed something to say - not XC and not AM. Same sheeet.


It’s definitely debatable what the threshold is, but I think for sure there’s a threshold where it makes little sense to try and cut up into smaller and smaller categories. You could do it almost infinitely if you wanted, but it ceases to be useful at some point.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

^funny. For me DC meant the geo wasn't going to be 68+ degrees with a short reach...and tailored around 100mm with pure pedaling efficiency as the design driver.. But have something a bit slacker, a bit longer and a hair more travel and relaxed. Light so you still can do some performancy pedalling. But not a race platform per se - so maybe the fun-country guy has right (or as you said, trail bike )? But if you were doing a race, BC race is the one that comes to mind. I dunno - the name is intentionally stupid. But I think the trend is lighter trail bikes.


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## brex17 (Jan 31, 2019)

It's a stupid, meaningless term that keeps being perpetuated by the same kinds of meaningless people that coined it in the first place.
There's no such thing, let the stupid term die already.


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

Carl Mega said:


> These endless categories used to pester me to no end. Then I think I zero'd in on that it was the ugly consumerism it generated that irked me. The. Next. Thing. That. Will. Improve. My. Life. Somehow.
> 
> There's a bit of a pendulum shift lately, after everyone got the most capable bike... a critical mass of people were like.... "hold up. I used to have a light bike, why can't I have a light bike again?" So here we are. Which is pretty much what people liked about that old Trek from 2011.
> 
> ...


I think the actual bikes that are coming out are a very good thing. I'm a big fan of lighter 120mm travel bikes.

The actual "downcountry" debate itself just feels like a rehash of the 1990's debate on whether a full-suspension bike could ever be a "single-quiver" to replace hardtails. Every year there seems to be a re-definition of a "do everything" bike, and it never really comes true.

Even that Fuel EX 9.9 with all the hype of versatility, could never really hack even blue trails at Trestle even with all the suspension set wide open.


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## jonyferr (Feb 11, 2021)

Downcountry is super simple... XC bike with Nobby Nick tyres (or any other fast rolling aggressive tyre). 

I have been doing that for ages to have fun on the downhill and enduro tracks that are 20km from where I live.


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## dietz31684 (Mar 30, 2010)

So basically every 10 to 20mm of travel difference makes a whole new 'category' to market?

XC/race 80mm - 100mm
Downcountry 120-130mm
Trail 130-140mm
All mountain 140-160mm
Enduro 160-180mm
Downhill 180mm +


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

The term is so bad even the industry guys in the article avoid using it. Call it a banana for all I care, the more bikes in this 'category'  the better. They are ideal for most real riders and are about perfect for what most people actually do, instead of what most people tell themselves they are going to do or picture themselves doing.


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## Adongadoobah (Oct 9, 2021)

"The bike I don't own"


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Jayem said:


> IMO, it’s just a marketing ploy and no one has really attempted to make a “downcountry” bike.
> 
> If the company is just taking their XC bike and adding a 120 fork, that ain’t downcountry.


That's the funny thing about this. Mike Levy (Pinkbike) coined the term. Downcountry was an XC bike with a 120mm fork, wider tires and bigger brakes. It started out as a joke. Now we've got people saying it's a marketing ploy and that downcountry is just a short travel trail bike. 

There's some rich irony in the downcountry saga that says a lot about bike consumers and the industry.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

This is the article that started it.




https://www.pinkbike.com/news/what-the-heck-is-a-down-country-bike-opinion.html


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

It's all just blured lines.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jeremy3220 said:


> That's the funny thing about this. Mike Levy (Pinkbike) coined the term. Downcountry was an XC bike with a 120mm fork, wider tires and bigger brakes. It started out as a joke. Now we've got people saying it's a marketing ploy and that downcountry is just a short travel trail bike.
> 
> There's some rich irony in the downcountry saga that says a lot about bike consumers and the industry.


They already made XC bikes with 120 forks. Most mfrs would offer builds either with a 100mm race fork or 120 “trail” depending on what you chose. So yes, just a joke. But now it’s turned into more than a joke and they are trying to convince us they are serious.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

I'm learning more about how to market bikes than anything. First you need a video. In the video, you need:

1) Drone footage of an impossibly beautiful topography in a dream location you'll never actually visit
2) A perfectly manicured set of berms you'll never actually experience
3) Slow-motion, close up video of berm railing that shows pebbles and dirt being thrown from the back tire in the direction of the camera
3) More slow-motion close up chunder showing the fork compressing and rebounding
4) Unknown but alluring music track
5) Bikes being ridden while profiled against the setting/rising sun

** Extra bonus for including a slow-motion water crossing, or the inclusion of a woman.

Shiyit....I got this. Who wants to hire me?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

BadgerOne said:


> I'm learning more about how to market bikes than anything. First you need a video. In the video, you need:
> 
> 1) Drone footage of an impossibly beautiful topography in a dream location you'll never actually visit
> 2) A perfectly manicured set of berms you'll never actually experience
> ...


6) normal speed showing the rider pedaling furiously like an idiot slightly downhill on a segment that no one in their right mind would ever pedal like that
7) the tail skids-slides (maybe already covered)


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

It started as a joke in a Pinkbike article. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/what-the-heck-is-a-down-country-bike-opinion.html


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

jeremy3220 said:


> There's some rich irony in the downcountry saga that says a lot about bike consumers and the industry.


There is an INCREDIBLE amount of irony in it.

People have been building their xc bikes a little rowdier because they weren't xc racers for longer than I've been in the sport.

I did it in 2003 with my first FS bike (back when the Stumpjumper was an xc bike). I didn't go so far as to beef up the suspension, because I didn't have that kind of budget. But I absolutely ran meatier tires than most ppl in my area, and I put stronger brakes on than most people I knew used.

So a magazine hack created a word to describe this as a joke, and then the marketing fools for a bunch of bike brands took him seriously and thought the word was a great idea. Now, downcountry bikes are the new hotness and consumers are eating them up.

My question now is, who is the butt of the joke? Is it Mike Levy? The marketing fools? Consumers?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

C’mon guys, the pieces of the mountain bike pie keep getting smaller... every minuscule piece needs its own identity.

@Josh Patterson, you must have had a good time drafting this article, knowing full well what would happen in its wake. Well done, I say.

As for the term ‘downcountry,’ I don’t have a problem with it. Personally I don’t ride bikes at that end of the spectrum so I say let the hair splitting weight weenies point their fingers at one another & argue about what’s best. For me it’s neither XC nor DC.

See y’all on the trails,
=sParty


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## DMFT (Dec 31, 2003)

-Just the dumbest word/term IMO.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

That's a lot of writing to describe a trail bike...


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Harold said:


> There is an INCREDIBLE amount of irony in it.
> 
> People have been building their xc bikes a little rowdier because they weren't xc racers for longer than I've been in the sport.
> 
> ...


The consumers are the butt of the joke. The term wouldn't have amounted to anything if the consumers didn't run with it and turn it into a buzzword. Love it or hate it people can't stop talking about it. The marketing folks just fed consumers their own bullshit back to them. We're keeping "downcountry" alive... right now in realtime.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

jeremy3220 said:


> The consumers are the butt of the joke. The term wouldn't have amounted to anything if the consumers didn't run with it and turn it into a buzzword. Love it or hate it people can't stop talking about it. The marketing folks just fed consumers their own bullshit back to them. We're keeping "downcountry" alive... right now in realtime.


My thought is that everyone is the butt of the joke.

The consumers for the reasons you described. The marketing scum because they started using a joke term, in all seriousness (might have been different if they'd started using it with tongue-in-cheek acknowledgement of the original joke...but I haven't seen a single one that has done that). And Mike Levy because the marketing scum actually started using his joke term.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

You guys just wait 'til downcountry music takes off...


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## just Dee (9 mo ago)

not sure what room i am in but am trying to find some help on my older gary fisher bike not even sure what the name of it is could someone help


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## just Dee (9 mo ago)

just Dee said:


> not sure what room i am in but am trying to find some help on my older gary fisher bike not even sure what the name of it is could someone help
> View attachment 1982163


or how i get started as well size, style name all i know is it has acme cartoon characters on both sides and is a Gary Fisher help from there please


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

just Dee said:


> not sure what room i am in but am trying to find some help on my older gary fisher bike not even sure what the name of it is could someone help
> View attachment 1982163





gary fisher joshua - Google Search



Down The Drain Country


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## nomadsurfer (12 mo ago)

I’m still not sure how trail bikes differ from “all mountain” 

surely “all mountain” would be superior to just riding the “down country “


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

JoshuaCountry.

Defining characteristic: fork boot seat post protection.


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## LarryMagoo (12 mo ago)

Well you think that's dumb....the new category is....wait for it....Down Gravel....WTF???? Like Gravel bikes makes a great downhill bike???


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

LarryMagoo said:


> Well you think that's dumb....the new category is....what for it....Down Gravel....WTF???? Like Gravel bikes makes a great downhill bike???


I particularly enjoyed the flatline kinematics.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I predict full suspension gravel bikes. 
Or do the already exist?
If not, they sure as heck will. 
Yup — Downgravel. 
Must. Have. More. Sub. Genres.
=sParty


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

dietz31684 said:


> So basically every 10 to 20mm of travel difference makes a whole new 'category' to market?
> 
> XC/race 80mm - 100mm
> Downcountry 120-130mm
> ...


Mountain Bike - 80mm - 100mm
Mountain Bike - 120-130mm
Mountain Bike - 130-140mm
Mountain Bike - 140-160mm
Mountain Bike - 160-180mm
Downhill Bike - 180mm +


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## TTTURNER (May 13, 2009)

I can identify with the hate for all of the marketing nonsense and branding, but having more types of bikes to choose from is good thing. I constantly complain on here about all of the new bikers that are riding overbuilt heavy and poor climbing bikes that are struggling on our steep SoCal trails. Most of these riders would be much better served with a lighter better climbing bike. Very few riders get their bike off of the ground enough to warrant the bricks that they are riding. I have been riding a bike that fits the downcountry category for many years before anyone ever thought up the term. I will continue to ride one long after the term dies. My local trails warrant one.


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

LarryMagoo said:


> Well you think that's dumb....the new category is....wait for it....Down Gravel....WTF???? Like Gravel bikes makes a great downhill bike???


As they say in South Park, "Simpsons did it!"

Or Evil Bikes in this case Evil Bikes USA


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## Mountainfrog (Mar 7, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> I predict full suspension gravel bikes.
> Or do the already exist?
> If not, they sure as heck will.
> Yup — Downgravel.
> ...


For your enjoyment.









MCR 9 RDO


Adding our CVA full suspension to a gravel bike platform blends the control of a cross-country race bike with the handling of a gravel bike.




www.ninerbikes.com


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## jonyferr (Feb 11, 2021)

Sparticus said:


> I predict full suspension gravel bikes.
> Or do the already exist?
> If not, they sure as heck will.
> Yup — Downgravel.
> ...


Downgravel bikes will bring the 60mm fork to the lights. It will be the 2024 road/mountain bike revolution.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I like the term because it's an easy way to flag people who can't be taken seriously when talking about mountain bikes.

Like 'grouppo'. Or 'beam pattern'. Or 'torque wrench'.


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

Yeah, I too hate how the lingo and marketing tries to divide and resell. I remember hearing once about the golf equipment industry, that they basically need to resell to the same number of people as the market share doesn't grow. Probably similar.

That said, if you can see past the marketing I think this is the right kind of bike for a majority of riding applications and provide the highest level of enjoyment. 120-130mm travel, mid school geometry and keeping things relatively light weight is a pretty fun recipe for 90% of riding in my experience.


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## shmadge (May 11, 2018)

My opinion... MTB has gotten too Bro, and people think if you aren't enduro or sending it, you aren't cool. 

Long chill days are super fun too! And most people would prefer this style. The branding makes it a little cooler. So what, people are vain


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## just Dee (9 mo ago)

Sparticus said:


> gary fisher joshua - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> Down The Drain Country


oh great another question is it an f-3 a z0 how do i figurer that one out and the tires are 54 that seems pretty big how do i measure it I know alot of question but thanks for the start 
dee


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## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

But what about Super Enduro?


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## Josh Patterson (Nov 23, 2005)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> Mountain Bike - 80mm - 100mm
> Mountain Bike - 120-130mm
> Mountain Bike - 130-140mm
> Mountain Bike - 140-160mm
> ...


This chart checks out.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

TTTURNER said:


> I can identify with the hate for all of the marketing nonsense and branding, but having more types of bikes to choose from is good thing. I constantly complain on here about all of the new bikers that are riding overbuilt heavy and poor climbing bikes that are struggling on our steep SoCal trails. Most of these riders would be much better served with a lighter better climbing bike. Very few riders get their bike off of the ground enough to warrant the bricks that they are riding. I have been riding a bike that fits the downcountry category for many years before anyone ever thought up the term. I will continue to ride one long after the term dies. My local trails warrant one.


but it’s not more bikes to choose from. We already had XC bikes.


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## Hexsense (Aug 10, 2021)

dietz31684 said:


> So basically every 10 to 20mm of travel difference makes a whole new 'category' to market?
> 
> XC/race 80mm - 100mm
> Downcountry 120-130mm
> ...


what happen to 101-119mm travel range? 
Are they lostcountry?


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## Josh Patterson (Nov 23, 2005)

Sparticus said:


> C’mon guys, the pieces of the mountain bike pie keep getting smaller... every minuscule piece needs its own identity.
> 
> @Josh Patterson, you must have had a good time drafting this article, knowing full well what would happen in its wake. Well done, I say.
> 
> ...


Thank you, sir. 

Aside from enjoying these hot takes, my personal opinion is that there's enough difference between a traditional XC race bike and a trail bike for whatever you want to call this genre of bike to exist _for now_. Given how quickly cross-country racing is evolving, #downcountry bikes will become the standard XC bike in two seasons.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

jmmUT said:


> As they say in South Park, "Simpsons did it!"
> 
> Or Evil Bikes in this case Evil Bikes USA


Pffft. That's shredgravel. Do you even lingo bro?


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

shmadge said:


> My opinion... MTB has gotten too Bro, and people think if you aren't enduro or sending it, you aren't cool.


If you're not sending it you're not cool... but that hasn't changed.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Mountainfrog said:


> For your enjoyment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The answer to the question no one asked.

Wait - there's another one!

Topstone


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

I tend to ride bikes more on XC side of the spectrum and there is a difference. A XC bike is in my mind a race bike. It is bike that is light and fast. The purpose is being fast on the climbs and fast enough on the descents given the course. Comfort is not a major factor and when in doubt go light. Trail bikes are much heavier and can be ridden everywhere by just about anyone. They will trade durability and DH performance for weight. They will not be idea for XC racing or Enduro racing, but you could do either in a pinch as "fun" event. Given that there is a space in between these bikes for bikes that really are XC race bikes, but have been tweaked a bit for more gnarly terrain, comfort and durability. At their core they are light frames with light parts and very efficient pedaling platforms. They can be raced all but the very highest pro levels in shorter sprint races, but may be raced in XC Marathon type events by the pros. Geometry is similar to XC, but a little more suited to the downs. A good bike in this class can tackle many tough DH, but just not as fast as trail bike or Enduro bike. It should climb very much faster. 

In the end may times you can just take an XC bike and tweak it for more stability and durability with minimal weight impact. A true trailbike will be heavier. 

One way to think about it as follows in the upper build spec ranges
XC race machine = 20-23lbs 
Trail bike = 26-30lbs
Enduro = 29-35lbs
The in-between bikes (what ever you want to call them) 23-26lbs

Travel ranges go from low to high, Head angles go from steep to slack, but there is a range on all these were they may have overlap. 

One thing I do know is that some very light bikes can be very capable, but as with anything the more you push a bike to its limits the more you risk damage and it gets less comfortable to ride. However lighter bikes climb well because there is less weight to drag around.


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## Hexsense (Aug 10, 2021)

BadgerOne said:


> The answer to the question no one asked.
> 
> Wait - there's another one!
> 
> Topstone


Man, lefty is such a good fit for gravel bike suspension.
On full size MTB suspension, Lefty have limited space for air spring and damper cram on the same leg. That somewhat compromise performance of longer travel lefty fork.
However, on short gravel bike, there's actually too much empty space in the fork leg... Fox do Tapercast to save weight on lower half of the fork that has no internal stuff.
But Cannondale can simply use one fork leg instead of two. Nice.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^^
Well said.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

JoePAz said:


> I tend to ride bikes more on XC side of the spectrum and there is a difference. A XC bike is in my mind a race bike.


^^^^^^
Well said...


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

JoePAz said:


> One way to think about it as follows in the upper build spec ranges
> XC race machine = 20-23lbs
> Trail bike = 26-30lbs
> Enduro = 29-35lbs


Both my "trail" bikes are 31.5 (hardtail) and 34.5 (FS) pounds.... But I'm just a silly poor. 🤷‍♂️


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

BadgerOne said:


> The answer to the question no one asked.
> 
> Wait - there's another one!
> 
> Topstone


Confession time… I own a Topstone. 

Not a FS one, tho. But mine is equipped with a dropper.
=sParty


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Sparticus said:


> Confession time… I own a Topstone.
> 
> Not a FS one, tho. But mine is equipped with a dropper.
> =sParty


It's not running forum approved tires either, is it?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Hexsense said:


> what happen to 101-119mm travel range?
> Are they lostcountry?


No Country for Old Bikes


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

dysfunction said:


> It's not running forum approved tires either, is it?


It is not! 
Did 50 miles on it yesterday… 100% paved. 
=sParty


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Hexsense said:


> Man, lefty is such a good fit for gravel bike suspension.
> On full size MTB suspension, Lefty have limited space for air spring and damper cram on the same leg. That somewhat compromise performance of longer travel lefty fork.
> However, on short gravel bike, there's actually too much empty space in the fork leg... Fox do Tapercast to save weight on lower half of the fork that has no internal stuff.
> But Cannondale can simply use one fork leg instead of two. Nice.


Even better would be a head shock. If there’s one reason to make a head tube even bigger, it’s to make a carbon bladed head shock for gravel bikes AND fat bikes. This would get fatbike forks down from 5-6lbs to about 2lbs, the fat and gravel bikes don’t need 5” of suspension but just SOME suspension would be nice and keeping it in the head tube is an efficient use of space with minimal leg flex. This really would be the ultimate for fat bike Hardtails IMO. Up to 80mm was done before and that would work fine for the fatbikes IMO.


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## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

Sparticus said:


> Confession time… I own a Topstone.
> 
> Not a FS one, tho. But mine is equipped with a dropper.
> =sParty


Topstone or Topstone Carbon? The latter had rear suspension before it had front...


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## spaightlabs (Dec 3, 2011)

For all the talk about down country bikes there is precious little talk about specific down country trails/riding areas. I wish trail forks would specifically filter for down country areas.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

If you ride trails that weave & wind through lots of skinny trees: Tight Country


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## spaightlabs (Dec 3, 2011)

If down country exists as a category, does up country also exist by corollary?

Also, if I just take my trail bike and put a shock/fork with less travel on it, is it now a down country bike or just a low travel trail bike?


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Downcountry in 1998. Tuned coil n oil, hydro brakes and short stem. I also raced the state super d series on this bike back then with this set up.


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## spaightlabs (Dec 3, 2011)

milehi said:


> Downcountry in 1998. Tuned coil n oil, hydro brakes and short stem. I also raced the state super d series on this bike back then with this set up.
> View attachment 1982206



That's a sweet Rocky! Still got it? My First Rocky Mountain had a powder coated frame. Wish they still did that - looked killer and durable as hell.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

spaightlabs said:


> That's a sweet Rocky! Still got it? My First Rocky Mountain had a powder coated frame. Wish they still did that - looked killer and durable as hell.


I sold it to a coworker in 03. He had it stripped and repowdercoated. Along the way it needed several cracks repaired and a heat treat before the powder. Then it was sold to another co worker's dad after the first co worker got deep into riding, who rode it all over creation until he passed. I don't no where it is now but I'm sure it could be tracked down. The rear shock has one of the very first PUSH tunes way before they were in their California shop and a MountainSpeed spring. Fork had a MountainSpeed hard and medium spring and a Romic compression cartridge. The Magura brakes had trials master cylinders and Altek levers.


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

jeremy3220 said:


> That's the funny thing about this. Mike Levy (Pinkbike) coined the term. Downcountry was an XC bike with a 120mm fork, wider tires and bigger brakes. It started out as a joke. Now we've got people saying it's a marketing ploy and that downcountry is just a short travel trail bike.
> 
> There's some rich irony in the downcountry saga that says a lot about bike consumers and the industry.


Yea, but it's like the grim donut. It started out as a joke, and then Pivot shows up at Sea Otter with their own Pivot branded grim donut. 

It all goes sideways when reality starts puppeting silly internet memes.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

spaightlabs said:


> For all the talk about down country bikes there is precious little talk about specific down country trails/riding areas. I wish trail forks would specifically filter for down country areas.


I was just in Sedona on my 120/100 post-race rig with my fatter tires I switched out and Sedona definitely ain’t it, way too chunky on the steeps for that little travel…I mean, I did it all, but there’s no replacement for travel. It seems like smoother trails with features would be super fun on such a bike, except the frame needs to be appropriately strong enough for the big air.


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## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

Jayem said:


> I was just in Sedona on my 120/100 post-race rig with my fatter tires I switched out and Sedona definitely ain’t it, way too chunky on the steeps for that little travel…I mean, I did it all, but there’s no replacement for travel. It seems like smoother trails with features would be super fun on such a bike, except the frame needs to be appropriately strong enough for the big air.


My 120/120 Oiz TR is pretty well suited to the riding I do here in New Hampshire, short steep rooty rocky uphills, and short steep rooty rocky downhills linked by rolling rocky rooty sections. Then hop on a gravel road, lockout the suspension and crank along to the next section of rocky and rooty trail…


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## NoCanSurf (Feb 19, 2021)

Is this tread really here to upset people still trying to wrap their heads around _Gravel_ bikes?


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

milehi said:


> Downcountry in 1998. Tuned coil n oil, hydro brakes and short stem. I also raced the state super d series on this bike back then with this set up.
> View attachment 1982206


not quite 1998, but yeah, a "downcountry" bike was just a bike...










(edit: LOLZ at how big we used to run those front sprockets!!)


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

I do love me some short travel 29er trail bikes that are around 27,28 lbs with trail worthy tires.


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## Josh Patterson (Nov 23, 2005)

norcalbike said:


> I do love me some short travel 29er trail bikes that are around 27,28 lbs with trail worthy tires.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

long legged XC bike and short travel trail bike are two very different things, yet both are referred to as downcountry.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

FactoryMatt said:


> long legged XC bike and short travel trail bike are two very different things, yet both are referred to as downcountry.


I don't know enough about both these bike genres to understand your statement.
What makes long travel XC so different from short travel trail?
=sParty


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Sparticus said:


> I don't know enough about both these bike genres to understand your statement.
> What makes long travel XC so different from short travel trail?
> =sParty


quality of suspension travel, capability to take a piggy back shock, frame stiffness and durability, and to some extent, geometry. additionally arguably, the trail bike would run a burlier tire than the down country bike.

but the MAIN difference is the rear suspension. a 115mm fox dps on a blur TR is going to be a completely different experience from a super deluxe piggy back shock on a ripley or 2022 Top Fuel. additionally, a 130mm fox 34 grip2 or pike rc2 will be a different experience than a 120mm sid 35 or fit4 fox 34 SC.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

FactoryMatt said:


> quality of suspension travel, capability to take a piggy back shock, frame stiffness and durability, and to some extent, geometry. additionally arguably, the trail bike would run a burlier tire than the down country bike.
> 
> but the MAIN difference is the rear suspension. a 115mm fox dps on a blur TR is going to be a completely different experience from a super deluxe piggy back shock on a ripley or 2022 Top Fuel. additionally, a 130mm fox 34 grip2 or pike rc2 will be a different experience than a 120mm sid 35 or fit4 fox 34 SC.


Makes sense, thanks.
Would it be fair to say that the LT XC bike gets there while shaving as many grams as possible while the short travel trail bike gets there while retaining more capable / durable components?
If so, then weight might appear to be these two genres most basic difference -- on the surface.
But below the surface, differences in suspension quality, component durability, performance, traction & comfort would be noticeable as well.
Yet as you mention, they're both 'downcountry.'
Sounds like we need another genre label to differentiate them. 
=sParty


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## Hexsense (Aug 10, 2021)

FactoryMatt said:


> quality of suspension travel, capability to take a piggy back shock, frame stiffness and durability, and to some extent, geometry. additionally arguably, the trail bike would run a burlier tire than the down country bike.


Add suspension tune to the list?
Some bikes that are made with XC intent have firmer and digressive tune to maximize pedal efficiency (minimize pedal bob). Then they fit shock which tune more supple off the top and ramp up more near the end for downcountry model of the same frame.

In reverse, bike that design as trail first may tune their suspension to be firmer to fit into downcountry genre.


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## Josh Patterson (Nov 23, 2005)

FactoryMatt said:


> long legged XC bike and short travel trail bike are two very different things, yet both are referred to as downcountry.


You're correct. I'd argue only the former is a downcountry bike.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

These are the bikes I’ve been riding for the past ten years. (Genius 130, Salsa Horsethief, 2026 Trek Top Fuel -2016)

About 2017 all the 120mm bikes got kinda hefty and I was left without any bikes that fit my preferences. It was either full XC or heavy ass 120mm trail bike. (Spark 120 being the outlier during that period).

If it took a new term to focus the industry on my preferred style of bike and bring options back…then I’m OK with that.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Okay that does it.

XC/DC

=sParty


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

Sparticus said:


> Okay that does it.
> 
> XC/DC


"For those about the rocks,
We salute you!"

=Marty


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## Catmandoo (Dec 20, 2018)

spaightlabs said:


> If down country exists as a category, does up country also exist by corollary?
> 
> Also, if I just take my trail bike and put a shock/fork with less travel on it, is it now a down country bike or just a low travel trail bike?


Up country is what you get after purchasing the DC and then pouring money into it to drop 5 lbs. Now its a climbing DC bike.


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## Funoutside (Jul 17, 2019)

What would a slack-ish(66.5°) ht with 130mm of travel(max 130 short 110mm) be long travel xc ht or short travel trail ht?


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## LetsGoOutside (Sep 4, 2005)

I think the DCXC category is a pretty great addition to the lexicon. While I am a huge fan of big bikes and big days in the mountains; ~75% of the time I will grab my “downcountry” / race bike / xc bike (whatever you want to call it) and just take off from my front door to go pedal. Efficient enough to ride on the road, capable enough to cover most of what my big bike can and fun enough to keep me smiling.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

LetsGoOutside said:


> I think the DCXC category is a pretty great addition to the lexicon. While I am a huge fan of big bikes and big days in the mountains; ~75% of the time I will grab my “downcountry” / race bike / xc bike (whatever you want to call it) and just take off from my front door to go pedal. Efficient enough to ride on the road, capable enough to cover most of what my big bike can and fun enough to keep me smiling.


I do likewise -- ride my short travel bike most of the time.
One difference between my situation and yours: my short travel bike is 170/140 suspension. 
=sParty


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## Clyde Ride (Jun 7, 2019)

Y’all sure do get wound up about what people call their mountain bikes.


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## OldSchoolMBer (May 25, 2013)

Clyde Ride said:


> Y’all sure do get wound up about what people call their mountain bikes.


My taxonomy professor in college told me once there's two kinds of taxonomists, "Lumpers" and "Splitters". Some ignore the differences and lump everything together under the same name. Others value the differences and split them up under different names. Seems mountain bikers are no different


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

I just find it funny that anybody gets worked up over these labels. Who cares? Go ride more.

Which brings up another point. Mountain Bike Media is, for obvious reasons, far more obsessed with new products than it is with actual riding.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

Cleared2land said:


> It's all just blured lines.


that's why the santa cruz DC bike is called the "blur"...


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## Clyde Ride (Jun 7, 2019)

OldSchoolMBer said:


> My taxonomy professor in college told me once there's two kinds of taxonomists, "Lumpers" and "Splitters". Some ignore the differences and lump everything together under the same name. Others value the differences and split them up under different names. Seems mountain bikers are no different


There’s only one kind of taxonomist 😉


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

kpdemello said:


> I just find it funny that anybody gets worked up over these labels. Who cares? Go ride more.
> 
> Which brings up another point. Mountain Bike Media is, for obvious reasons, far more obsessed with new products than it is with actual riding.


just like to talk about bikes man





"


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## askjasonbowen (Apr 27, 2014)

My definition of a Down-Country/ Down-duro bike.
My Experience rebuilding an entire Mountain Bike - MTB 246


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

TL;DR - it's a term we should just ignore and stop echoing.


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## firecat (Sep 18, 2020)

The new Signal Peak is intriguing, choice of 100mm xc build or 120mm trail build. I think short travel trail vs downcountry is a fine line, and can be either building up an xc frame with trail parts, or reducing weight on a short travel trail bike for efficiency.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

FWIW my girlfriend is a downcountry music fan.
=sParty


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Sparticus said:


> FWIW my girlfriend is a downcountry music fan.
> =sParty


But why?


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

Sparticus said:


> FWIW my girlfriend is a downcountry music fan.
> =sParty


I was down with country before it became whatever it is now


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Talkin' to a preacher said God was on his side
Talkin' to a butcher they both were sellin' hides
Well they gotta tell their story boys I don't know the reason why


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## kellyc (Apr 3, 2007)

Sort of a self fulfilling prophecy for me to read one of the industry folks in this article say that down country bikes are perfect for machine built flow. 

To me, "downcountry" as a riding style is riding comfortable, efficient, capable bikes on local primitive singletrack, steep punchy climbs and descents, fire road grinds, as well as long days in the saddle at elevation on primitive singletrack. 

I want a bike that I can ride rake and ride, hoe/dirt bike tire/hoof-built trails...


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

Josh Patterson said:


> Short-travel trail bikes and cross-country race bikes with a touch more suspension travel and slacker angles have become the sweethearts of the mountain bike industry in recent years. In many cases, they occupy nearly the same space and we're splitting hairs trying to define what constitutes a "downcountry" bike versus a short travel trail bike. If the launch of downcountry-specific products, such as Vittoria's Syerra tire, are any indication, we're likely to see more bikes and components targeted at riders who still want to be competitive at speed and aren't willing to sacrifice durability or to take the easy line.
> 
> *What is a downcountry bike?*
> *
> ...


just a new name for xc bike


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

My bike is Alt-Country.


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