# HELP!! Front end Creaking...



## dtmartin46 (Jul 11, 2003)

What a long, frustrating crappy ordeal... If anyone has any input for what i could do to eliminate the below problem, it'd be much appreciated.

So my Weyless SP has developed a bad, bad creaking noise from the front end. It happens constantly when riding. Any bump, hard peddling, bouncing, or general movement generates this noise. It's definately coming from up front. Actually, if you balance your chest over the saddle, and bounce up and down a little, you can hear the creak very clearly, too...

Long story short, My old fork ('03 Rock Shox Psylo) wasn't installed very well, the steerer tube was too short for the frame, only the lower of the 2 bolts on the stem were really gripping the steerer tube. In order for the headset topcap to reach the star nut in the steerer tube, it was placed only @ 4mm below the top of the tube, and that's what i initally thought the problem was. (This installation job wasn't done by me, a shop did it for me after i bought the Weyless frame, and switched the fork over from my old hardtail...) 

SO, i just put in a new Marzocchi MX fork, and left PLENTY of extra toptube, using some spacers. I also removed the headset, (relatively new Chris King) cleaned it, inspected it, re-greased it, and pressed it back in... No problems cutting my new fork to size, or re-installing the headset. New star nut is installed exactly 15mm below the top of the steerer tube. Everything tightened up perfectly, no issues whatsoever with the installation of the new fork. So i get done, pat myself on the back, and have a beer in celebration of yet another excellent adventure in my garage, wrenching on my bike... 

Then i throw a leg over my steed, psyched to test it out and bam, the friggin thing still creaks like a sumonobiyatch... Needless to say, i am pulling my hair out... 

Complete dissasembly of the front end ensued, and i still can't find where it's coming from... 

There are no visible cracks on the outside of the headtube, OR on the inside... There's nothing else that could be making the noise from the front end either... I was so pissed off and determined that i went as far as to remove all brake/derailleur cables to make sure there was NOTHING else connected to the front end making that damn noise... It's still there...

So i hate sending my bike to the LBS for stuff like this that isn't clearly evident, easy to point out, and not hard to diagnose like a cracked rim, or a bent spoke, or broken part, or whatever...

Hopefully i have described this in detail enough that some of you skilled home mechanics may be able to help me out. Hopefully i am just missing something easy. That's happened before... maybe once... 

Thanks in advance for any responses.


----------



## Maida7 (Apr 29, 2005)

My first thought is it's your bars. So remove the bolts that hold the bar to the stem. Clean and grease all that and reinstall.

Next it could be the frame is cracked somewhere and you can't see it or your frame's head tube is deformed. Also check your front wheel. Check the hub for play in the bearings. Check the spokes for loose ones. Lastly check your quick release. Take it out clean grease and reinstall.

Check all that and report back.


----------



## Maida7 (Apr 29, 2005)

Wait maybe your stem was damaged when you rode it with the old fork. Buy a cheap stem for 10.00 and see what happens.


----------



## Gevorg (Dec 7, 2004)

More things to check
1. Definiteley handle bars, you may have some dirt at the mount
2. Check the mounting of disc rotor on the wheel if disc brakes used.
3. Check your pedals, yet better put platform pedals and try
4. Check the brake/shifter housing where they get connected to frame, spray some silicone on entry/mount points
5. Check bottle cage/pump mounts


----------



## dtmartin46 (Jul 11, 2003)

The wheels are new, and in tip top shape, but yeah, i checked the hubs, and the QR. 

I do have carbon bars, and that is actually one of the only things i haven't 'disassembled'. I'll do that tonight after work.


----------



## flipnidaho (Aug 10, 2004)

*headtube*

check to make sure your headtube is not ovalized. also, make sure that your headtube was faced before pressing in the CK. some other things to check are:
Crown race installation- make sure crown race is snug flush with the taper
Cable stops- make sure the stops are greased.


----------



## dtmartin46 (Jul 11, 2003)

Thnx for the responses. There's a few things in there i haven't thought of.. In addition to what you guys listed, i found this idea in the archives... I believe i have something similar to what's described in the bottom of this thread...

http://archive.mtbr.com/09/0EF44085.php

I'm convinced it's my frame, but i will exhaust all other possibilities first.

So tonight when i get out of this dungeon, i mean, my job, i will do the following, in order

Remove Cranks, then check for creak
Remove BB, then "" ""
Remove handlebars, then "" ""
Remove Stem, then "" ""
Remove fork, and try the lube-the-inside-of-the-frame approach.

If all this fails tonight, i'll throw in the towel and see what the 'experts' at the shop can do. I love Performance Bike, they told me they could 'fit me in' as early as JUNE 1ST.... WTF?!?!?!


----------



## Gevorg (Dec 7, 2004)

One more thing to check.
I know it is the front end but I found on my Stumpjumper that setapost will sqeak if I do not clean it and slightly regrease it


----------



## dtmartin46 (Jul 11, 2003)

Gevorg said:


> One more thing to check.
> I know it is the front end but I found on my Stumpjumper that setapost will sqeak if I do not clean it and slightly regrease it


Yup. I fully dismantled the whole seat, too. I'm convinced that it's the frame, which really sucks. I my rig in to my closest LBS this A.M, and they're convinced it's the frame creaking, too. So now i gotta take it to Performance bike to see if they will warranty it.

Not too pleased with the Denver Performance bike shops right now, but we'll see what they say. (2 Week wait JUST TO LOOK at my bike????? WTF????)

On the brighter side of things, every single other component on my bike is now in perfectly lubed, cleaned condition! 

P.S> For anyone who lives down south, i got EXCELLENT service from the tech dudes at Full Tilt Cyclery, in Castle Rock. I think the mechanics name was Chris, anyway, i brought in my bike, and he checked it over for 30 minutes, right there and then, took it all apart, and checked everything in front of me, confirmed that there's nothing wrong with anything on the bike, and that the noise is definately coming from the frame, no charge... So those dudes get a thumbs up. Hopefully i'll get the same type of experience tomorrow when i drive up to WESTMINSTER to have Performance look at it...

Hopefully i will have a happy ending soon... Man, not having the option to go ride really sucks!


----------



## cdad_martinez (Nov 14, 2004)

Sounds like you've made all the stops in searching for this creak. Here is a few things I'd do that I hope might shed some light. 
#1 how well does the crown race fit on the fork and was it lubed when installed?
#2 ride the bike a brake heavy on the front brake (without an endo of course) in a quiet place. Bike should creak.
#2b Do the same but this time have your feet off the pedals. Same result? 
#2c Same thing but standing on pedals off the seat.
#3 with the bike firmly in the stand grab the front wheel or remove the wheel and torque the fork toward the frame and away from the frame (same stress that would be place on the bike if you were riding). Creak? You have to be very careful in localizing the noise and be certain you've narrowed it down to a specific area. If you can duplicate the noise in the stand even better. Use a handelbar or any long tubular piece of metal and put it to your ear and place it on the part where you think it's creaking (Old auto mechanic trick, works like a friggin charm). 
#4 Sometimes a bike will creak where two tubes are welded under load (I've had a few customers with trek 8000's with this problem in thier chainstays.) We'd use a thick aerosol lube and spray it down into the bike every 6 months or so. No more creak.
Creaks are the worst! I feel your pain but it takes patience and a fine tooth comb to find them often. Good luck. Some off this tuff might seem wierd but it works and I've had a pretty good success rate on finding and fixing such problems, Let us know how things pan out.


----------



## dtmartin46 (Jul 11, 2003)

cdad_martinez said:


> #4 Sometimes a bike will creak where two tubes are welded under load (I've had a few customers with trek 8000's with this problem in thier chainstays.) We'd use a thick aerosol lube and spray it down into the bike every 6 months or so. No more creak.
> Creaks are the worst! I feel your pain but it takes patience and a fine tooth comb to find them often. Good luck. Some off this tuff might seem wierd but it works and I've had a pretty good success rate on finding and fixing such problems, Let us know how things pan out.


This is what my problem is, too... Only difference is that the creak in my frame is coming from a gusset underneath the weld between the downtube and the headtube. At Full Tilt, we tried that remedy by squirting a good amount of aerosol lube up into the gusset. To no avail.

Good news, tho! Performance agreed to warranty the frame, and they're currently 'looking for a new frame' for me. My frame is a 2004 Weyless SP, which was, i believe that last year they made Weyless frames, so hopefully there is one laying around their network of stores somewhere. The tech i spoke with said he'd call me on Monday (today...) with an update. Hopefully i'll be back riding this weekend!!!


----------



## jo_ride (Sep 16, 2005)

*Sounds like the same problem I had*

I had a 2001 Stumpjumger FSR that was creaking. It sounded like the creak was coming from the head tube. I took it to two seperate bike shops, and all thy said is, "We'll replace your pivot bearings, cables, and reinstall your bottom bracket, and that should help." In other words, they were just guessing. Come on, I can tell where the noise is coming from. I finally had to strip the frame down to just the front triangle. I stuck a broom handle in the top tube and put a little sideways torsion on it. Sure enough, it produced the same creaking noise. I then took the frame to the LBS and showed them. They then said, "yep, you're frame's cracked." They sent it to specialized, and I got a warantee replacement. It took two weeks too, and they said that Specialized X-Rays damaged frames. Sounds like the same problem. There were no visable cracks, but when I was on the bike peddling... creak, creak, creak. Good luck with Performance. My guess is that they'll determine that it's a factory defect.


----------



## dtmartin46 (Jul 11, 2003)

jo_ride said:


> There were no visable cracks, but when I was on the bike peddling... creak, creak, creak. Good luck with Performance. My guess is that they'll determine that it's a factory defect.


Yeah, that's pretty much EXACTLY what my was doing... Actually, when i was researching this, googling and whatnot, i came across more than one instance of people talking about this type of creak coming from their Specialized. Hopefully your new frame is all good. That's pretty funny about your broomstick test! I actually did something similar, but i used my old fork, inserted it into the head tube with no Headset, braced it real good, and was able to duplicate the creak. hahaha. The crap you'll do just to proove that you can isolate a problem!

How %$^#&@ annoying is that noise? I wanted to kick the fkin thing a few times... It is super annoying to KNOW what the problem is, but still have to go thru the rigamarole (sp??) at the LBS. I got good service from both places i went to, actually, so i think i was lucky in that regard. I'm still waiting to hear back from Performance, but the last i heard, a new frame is on the way;

"Yah, we'll aaahh, call you on Monday with an update on yer frame"...

I'm translating that to mean i should call them myself on Wednesday afternoon.


----------



## jo_ride (Sep 16, 2005)

dtmartin46 said:


> i came across more than one instance of people talking about this type of creak coming from their Specialized. Hopefully your new frame is all good.


The old frame was a 2001. The replacement was a 2003. They even gave me a new rear shock, a Fox Float RL. The old shock didn't have lockout. Needless to say, I was very pleased with the outcome. I was getting close to buying a new frame on my own.


----------



## bulletbob (Apr 5, 2004)

*Ask for...*



dtmartin46 said:


> "Yah, we'll aaahh, call you on Monday with an update on yer frame"...
> 
> I'm translating that to mean i should call them myself on Wednesday afternoon.


...a guy named Matt in Performance. He works on the floor but he seems to be one of the guys in there who has his sh!t together. Maybe he can get around some hurdles for a straight answer.

Fyi, I had the same creaking problem on my old Giant Warp which was slightly due to crank/bb issues but turned out to be the damn frame about to break around a weld. One more run down Winter Park...

Fortunately I had gotten way more than the $550 I paid for it in fun so I wasn't too upset because the guys at Full Cycle in Bowda had it warrantied and rebuilt within 2 weeks. Giants are notorious for creaking to, especially a couple of years of NRS' that had flimsy bottom brackets.


----------



## dtmartin46 (Jul 11, 2003)

*Happy Happy Joy Joy!!!!!*

Happy to report that Performance was able to find a new frame for me, and built it up free of charge!

It was ready last Wednesday, but i couldn't make it up there until Friday. Anyways, it's a happy ending to a long ordeal. I had a black frame, but they replaced it with the blue version, which i actually think is a lot nicer looking. It really sucked waiting for it, but to be quite honest, once i had my bike up there, they were quite responsive, and very helpful. I thought it was pretty cool of them to re-build the new frame for me too. I spoke with a JEFF, who i think is the manager, he was pretty cool overall.

I have to go ride now...


----------

