# How to get SRAM to pay for Guide RS recall labor?



## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

To briefly summarize, I have the SRAM Guide RS brakes with the lever getting stuck during hot days problem... pissed me off when it happened... and of course it's a widespread problem as I've come to find out. I called SRAM, told me they would replace either the levers or the internals depending on the serial #... called my LBS and would charge me $100 for labor and all. Come on, I spent good $$$ on those brakes and now I have to spend more $$$ to get their dumb mistake fixed? :madmax:

Not my fault their "engineers" are incompetent. "Hey look at me, I'm a SRAM engineer... WTF is heat transfer and thermal expansion?"... sorry for that rant. 

So, is there anyway to get them to pay for the LBS labor for their dumb recall?

PS: I would do the labor myself, but don't have a brake bleed kit, maybe will get it and learn to fix it myself... but for now I'll just go back to using my mechanical brakes... at least those never got stuck during hot summer days....................


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Pay the $100 and move on. You'll forget about it sooner and be able to focus on more important things.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

get the replacement brakes, don't put them on your bike, sell them, buy Shimano brakes, ever worry about brakes sucking again.


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

mack_turtle said:


> get the replacement brakes, don't put them on your bike, sell them, buy Shimano brakes, ever worry about brakes sucking again.


Good idea. It sucks though, the guy said I would either get internals or new levers depending on the serial #.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

What does the LBS labor charge cover? Removal of the old brakes and installation of the new ones (including hose shortening)?


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

Nat said:


> What does the LBS labor charge cover? Removal of the old brakes and installation of the new ones (including hose shortening)?


That labor is for changing internals and also for doing the whole "paperwork" for returning and getting the new stuff. I get the LBS needs to make $$$, but I just don't think I should pay for it since it was SRAM who messed up.


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## CUP-TON (Dec 7, 2016)

+1 for Shimano brakes.


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## efromejia (Mar 28, 2015)

Yep +1 on Shimano brakes. 
Used it for 2 years, just a bleeding recently, and that's all, no hassle.

DOT oil brakes have that problem, heat transfer and expansion issues, as far as I know, that's not frequent on Shimano's


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mack_turtle said:


> get the replacement brakes, don't put them on your bike, sell them, buy Shimano brakes, ever worry about brakes sucking again.


Well, one of my M987s sucked, so shimano sent me two M9000s to replace the brakeset, no questions asked, super fast return. I do all my own maintenance so I installed the brakes, that's kind of a grey area when it comes to bike warranty. I've had good results overall in this area, but not everyone has.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I worked in a shop where we had tons of warranty issues with SRAM brakes. we never charged customers labor to replace parts under warranty. that's BS. there was no "paper work" involved. SRAM knows their brakes suck, so when you call them, they send you a new replacement part and a call tag to send the old product back. sometimes they don't even want the old product back. often, SRAM would send us a bunch of free chains or cables to pay us back for the trouble.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

If you bought the bike or the brakes at the LBS, I would be really annoyed and maybe even ask for a return of everything and get your money back and go somewhere else. If they won't do that, at least in my state, that would be a consumer product violation because the product they sold you is clearly defective. You may also complain directly to SRAM that their distributor is trying to charge you.

If you didn't buy the product there, well then $100 seems pretty fair. Shimano sells a product, either OEM or not installed. They aren't really responsible for the labor, only to replace the defective product.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

to clarify, where did you buy the bike or the brakes? if the brakes came on a bike you bought at the LBS or you bought the brakes at the shop, they should at least only charge you a nominal fee for the labor.

but if you bought the bike elsewhere and expect the shop to eat the cost of installing new brakes, that's a joke.


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

kpdemello said:


> If you didn't buy the product there, well then $100 seems pretty fair. Shimano sells a product, either OEM or not installed. They aren't really responsible for the labor, only to replace the defective product.


I didn't buy it there, I got it from JensonUSA. Replacing it is fine because I can just install it on my bike no problem. But if they send internals, that requires labor and it something I can't do myself.


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

mack_turtle said:


> but if you bought the bike elsewhere and expect the shop to eat the cost of installing new brakes, that's a joke.


I'm not expecting the LBS to eat the cost, I am saying SRAM should if they send internals parts. If they send the entire new levers then I'll install myself. Just opening the levers and changing the internals I'm iffy with. I've never opened levers and changed and bleed the brakes. That's why I'm saying SRAM should eat the labor if it indeed comes to getting internals.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

push for a full brake set replacement that you can sell, then buy shimano as said, or hope or anything other than sram


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## efromejia (Mar 28, 2015)

mfa81 said:


> push for a full brake set replacement that you can sell, then buy shimano as said, or hope or anything other than sram


Yea bro, I support that statement

Erick


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

fair enough. in my experience, SRAM never paid us back directly for labor on replacing things under warranty, but sometimes gave us products to repay us for the trouble. they generally just don't do that, so I would not expect them to start now.

I still stand behind my original suggestion: get the replacement parts and buy brakes that don't suck. SRAM/Avid brakes have always sucked, with the exception of BB7 mechanicals.


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

mfa81 said:


> push for a full brake set replacement that you can sell, then buy shimano as said, or hope or anything other than sram


Yeah I'll try to push for a full replacement, but it sucks that SRAM only deals with dealers, not with customers directly. Maybe the LBS will be nice enough and push for that.


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

mack_turtle said:


> fair enough. in my experience, SRAM never paid us back directly for labor on replacing things under warranty, but sometimes gave us products to repay us for the trouble. they generally just don't do that, so I would not expect them to start now.
> 
> I still stand behind my original suggestion: get the replacement parts and buy brakes that don't suck. SRAM/Avid brakes have always sucked, with the exception of BB7 mechanicals.


I have the BB5 mechanicals laying around in a box, they weren't that bad. I might just swap to those for now.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

Did you contact JensonUSA? they should be taking care of this, no?


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

d365 said:


> Did you contact JensonUSA? they should be taking care of this, no?


yeah, really. why are you burdening you LBS with this drama instead of going to the retailer who sold you the product? in fact, Jenson probably has a generous return policy. send it all back to them.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

Yeah I was going to say contact Jenson. They would have every incentive to push for a full replacement, and if they didn't then you can insist they pay for the labor of the replacement. If they refuse, tell them you will return the defective product and that you want your money back, then go buy elsewhere.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I am also surprised to hear that a self-proclaimed "engineer" was suckered into buying a SRAM brake product. If you know more about "heat transfer and thermal expansion" than a SRAM engineer does, why did you buy their product in the first place? Put your engineer cap on and buy the product that is better-designed.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

it might be easier to have jenson push for a full replacement brake, they are an online dealer, and can push harder on sram compared to small lbs, contact them explain the issue and ask for a replacement


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

mack_turtle said:


> I am also surprised to hear that a self-proclaimed "engineer" was suckered into buying a SRAM brake product. If you know more about "heat transfer and thermal expansion" than a SRAM engineer does, why did you buy their product in the first place? Put your engineer cap on and buy the product that is better-designed.


 that's taking it a bit far. who pissed in your cheerios?


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

just sayin, the guy who is critiquing SRAM's design bought the product. he seems to be prett knowledgeable about how these things work, so he could have put more thought into buying something that was designed better from an engineering standpoint.


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

mack_turtle said:


> just sayin, the guy who is critiquing SRAM's design bought the product. he seems to be prett knowledgeable about how these things work, so he could have put more thought into buying something that was designed better from an engineering standpoint.


I didn't know about the lever getting stuck issue. I got the brakes last year, but I went on a ride 2 weeks ago and then it happened. Last year summer during the hot days I didn't have a problem.

Yeah dude, who pissed in your cheerios?


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

mfa81 said:


> it might be easier to have jenson push for a full replacement brake, they are an online dealer, and can push harder on sram compared to small lbs, contact them explain the issue and ask for a replacement


Good point. I thought of going thru my LBS first thinking they would maybe charge me like 40 bucks or something, wasn't expecting $100!

I'll contact Jenson


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

apologies. that was harsh.

but you do see the irony, right?

Let us know how the deal with Jenson goes.

seeing as you're an educated, capable fellow, why not get a bleed kit and learn to do it yourself? it's not terribly hard and DOT fluid-based brakes need to be bled with some frequency. they need it far more often than "mineral oil" brakes like Shimano, but learning to do it yourself will save you tons of hassle.

$100 labor from the LBS is a little on the steep side. I think I am used to $40 per brake. it's a time-consuming process that can get messy and results in wasted materials.


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

mack_turtle said:


> apologies. that was harsh.
> 
> but you do see the irony, right?
> 
> Let us know how the deal with Jenson goes.


It's cool lol

I'll tell you one thing, maybe I should seek employment at SRAM and straighten up those "engineers" :thumbsup:


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

please do! I lack the education and skills, but there are a lot of schenanigans, tomfoolery, and kerfuffling in the bicycle industry that makes me wonder if half of the people running it take their jobs seriously.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

Engineer90 said:


> Last year summer during the hot days I didn't have a problem.


This is what concerns me. Maybe I have this problem but it won't arise until next year?


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

kpdemello said:


> This is what concerns me. Maybe I have this problem but it won't arise until next year?


You have to be under the 2 year warranty period if you want a replacement. I'm at a year so I'm good. HBU?


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

mack_turtle said:


> seeing as you're an educated, capable fellow, why not get a bleed kit and learn to do it yourself? it's not terribly hard and DOT fluid-based brakes need to be bled with some frequency. they need it far more often than "mineral oil" brakes like Shimano, but learning to do it yourself will save you tons of hassle.


Yes! I was thinking that. I'll just get a kit. I can do most service stuff on a bike myself, except the brake service. Never attempted it. Maybe I'll get the Shimano kit from Amazon.


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## idividebyzero (Sep 25, 2014)

you would think a company so obsessed with hydraulics would actually know how to create a hydraulic system that doesnt self destruct constantly


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

Engineer90 said:


> You have to be under the 2 year warranty period if you want a replacement. I'm at a year so I'm good. HBU?


I just bought my bike last week, so I should be under warranty. The issue is that I don't want to be on a trail 10 miles from my car when my brakes suddenly lock up.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Engineer90 said:


> Maybe I'll get the Shimano kit from Amazon.


maybe that will work, but it might not be the right tool for the job at all. buy a kit made for DOT fluid brake systems if you're working on SRAM brakes. I have not bled every Shimano and SRAM brake on the market, but in my experience, the system and the method are different and require different tools.

if you buy Shimano brakes, the tools needed are pretty simple and cheap.

pro tip #1: don't let DOT fluid sit on your skin for long.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Frankly... bike parts are terrible. All of them. The "better" they are, the higher maintenance and more shitty they actually are. Theres nearly no exemption. 

I understand that stuff like that is frustrating, but this wont be the last time. You can either pay up, or learn to do it yourself because it'll just keep happening over and over. 

I jumped ship too and went with shimano brakes, which I can maintain myself very easily. But still, it'll cost you some money keeping them up if you dont do it yourself.


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

idividebyzero said:


> you would think a company so obsessed with hydraulics would actually know how to create a hydraulic system that doesnt self destruct constantly


Oh yeah, that'll sell more hydraulic systems.


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## idividebyzero (Sep 25, 2014)

Shimano bleed kits are completely incompatible, Sram uses a needlessly expensive and needlessly proprietary connection, and they needlessly use DOT fluid which destroys normal plastic/rubber after one use. DOT is also very much a pain in the ass to work with because its like acid.

Shimano brakes can be bled with a cheap bleed funnel and a generic $5 syringe and tube.

I took apart some Avid levers because the stupid DOT fluid causes the plastic to swell and get stuck in the lever. Replacing the plunger should be easy, definitely not worth $100 of labor, the worst part is dealing with the DOT fluid which is really nasty stuff.


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## Mike's MTB (Jun 12, 2017)

Engineer90 said:


> Yes! I was thinking that. I'll just get a kit. I can do most service stuff on a bike myself, except the brake service. Never attempted it. Maybe I'll get the Shimano kit from Amazon.


Shimano uses a syringe and a reservoir/funnel. SRAM uses two syringes. Each recommended procedure is different.

Get the SRAM kit. Then watch SRAM's bleeding edge brake bleed video below.


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

kpdemello said:


> I just bought my bike last week, so I should be under warranty. The issue is that I don't want to be on a trail 10 miles from my car when my brakes suddenly lock up.


If you're on the trail and they haven't locked up, you'll be fine. What happened with me was that I put my fattie on my roof rack, happened to be a hot humid day and when I got on the bike to test it, the brakes were locked. I read about it on my phone, poured cold water from a stream, it helped, but not entirely. In other words, I had a sh***y ride :madmax:


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

Mike's MTB said:


> Shimano uses a syringe and a reservoir/funnel. SRAM uses two syringes. Each recommended procedure is different.
> 
> Get the SRAM kit. Then watch SRAM's bleeding edge brake bleed video below.


Good video, where can I get the kit?


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

idividebyzero said:


> you would think a company so obsessed with hydraulics would actually know how to create a hydraulic system that doesnt self destruct constantly


HA! F***ing true. That's why I said their "engineers" are incompetent. In my line of work, if I overlook an engineering aspect, it could cause a serious injury and/or a nice lawsuit for my company.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

One Pivot said:


> Frankly... bike parts are terrible. All of them. The "better" they are, the higher maintenance and more shitty they actually are. Theres nearly no exemption.


I'd say there are exceptions. Brakes aren't perfect but I did basically nothing to my SLX's for 2 years before one of them finally took a dump, rear is still ok. XT derailleurs and shifters are still functioning perfectly after several years, same with the pedals. Headset is fine. DT hub has required nearly zero maintenance so far.

The only parts that seem to give me trouble on a regular basis are normal wear items like chains, cassettes and tires.


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## DCFarris (Jun 12, 2017)

Engineer90 said:


> Good video, where can I get the kit?


https://www.amazon.com/SRAM-Dot-Bic...qid=1501007957&sr=8-2&keywords=Sram+bleed+kit

There were quite a few that popped up, so just do a search on Amazon. Prices range depending on who on the marketplace you get it from.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Engineer90 said:


> That labor is for changing internals and also for doing the whole "paperwork" for returning and getting the new stuff. I get the LBS needs to make $$$, but I just don't think I should pay for it since it was SRAM who messed up.


If you send the brakes back to SRAM it seems like they should fix or replace them for you in-house without needing external labor. If not, then return/replace via JensonUSA. I can see why the LBS doesn't want to work for free handling a warranty issue on a product you bought elsewhere.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Nat said:


> I can see why the LBS doesn't want to work for free handling a warranty issue on a product you bought elsewhere.


If they have a problem with that, they shouldn't be a dealer for them.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Jayem said:


> If they have a problem with that, they shouldn't be a dealer for them.


Probably not. I've had warranty work done by a shop from which I didn't buy the product before.


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## Brodino (Sep 15, 2008)

mack_turtle said:


> ...but there are a lot of schenanigans, tomfoolery, and kerfuffling in the bicycle industry that makes me wonder if half of the people running it take their jobs seriously.


So true!


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

One Pivot said:


> Frankly... bike parts are terrible. All of them. The "better" they are, the higher maintenance and more shitty they actually are. Theres nearly no exemption.
> 
> I understand that stuff like that is frustrating, but this wont be the last time. You can either pay up, or learn to do it yourself because it'll just keep happening over and over.
> 
> I jumped ship too and went with shimano brakes, which I can maintain myself very easily. But still, it'll cost you some money keeping them up if you dont do it yourself.


I don't know about that. I had an XT groupset on my old bike that worked perfectly for over 12 years with one cassette change and one chain change over that time. It's probably still going strong for the new owner. It worked perfectly over all those years which I thought was quite amazing considering how much mud and crap it had to deal with.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

love Mack's comment about SRAM paying back their shop in kind for warranty labor. that is a real vote of confidence for SRAM's approach. "The only way possible we can pull it off with all the potential warranty returns is to mfg at cheapest possible and no cash out the door on warranty work." With all the returns reverbs they must cost a buck to mfg.

to OP, just stick with Jenson for the warranty so you don't stir up the wrath of the otherwise authorised SRAM dealer. I would add an analogy here but the LBS IBD and mfgs are in a non-analogous league of their own sometimes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mike's MTB (Jun 12, 2017)

DCFarris said:


> https://www.amazon.com/SRAM-Dot-Bic...qid=1501007957&sr=8-2&keywords=Sram+bleed+kit
> 
> There were quite a few that popped up, so just do a search on Amazon. Prices range depending on who on the marketplace you get it from.


Spend the few extra bucks and get the DOT fluid included.

https://www.amazon.com/Avid-Profess...qid=1501014783&sr=1-1&keywords=sram+bleed+kit

Edit: Actually not sure it's included on that one either.


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## idividebyzero (Sep 25, 2014)

Mike's MTB said:


> Spend the few extra bucks and get the DOT fluid included.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Avid-Profess...qid=1501014783&sr=1-1&keywords=sram+bleed+kit
> 
> Edit: Actually not sure it's included on that one either.


that is Avid, Guide brakes have an utterly pointless $20 adapter for the caliper that does the exact same job


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

Get the bleed kit from Jenson, make sure to get the pro bleed kit. It will pay for itself in a few months because you will use it all the time. I finally got rid of my xx trails and went to XT. I can bleed SRAM brakes though like a pro. 

Maybe you can get Jenson to send you a free kit.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Mike's MTB said:


> Spend the few extra bucks and get the DOT fluid included.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Avid-Profess...qid=1501014783&sr=1-1&keywords=sram+bleed+kit
> 
> Edit: Actually not sure it's included on that one either.


Some do, some don't. Mine did, but it's no biggie. The stuff used in cars is the same and considerably cheaper. Just *don't *get DOT 5 silicone (DOT 3, 4, and 5.1 are all compatible and work fine). They even sell it at Wally World.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I have to say that this whole thread is making me feel warm and fuzzy about my XT brakes.

Even an incompetent boob like me can bleed them pretty easily.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

cup-ton said:


> +1 for shimano brakes.


+2

**** sram.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

d365 said:


> that's taking it a bit far. who pissed in your cheerios?


I got a box of Cheerios the other day that were stale- do I take them back to the store, or contact the manufacturer??

And who's going to install them in my bowl??


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## DDDonny (Sep 14, 2005)

Nat said:


> Probably not. I've had warranty work done by a shop from which I didn't buy the product before.


Ditto! That's why it comes in handy to form a relationship with your LBS! The bike shop that did the warranty swap on my RSC brake lever wasn't the shop where I purchased my bike...






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

DDDonny said:


> Ditto! That's why it comes in handy to form a relationship with your LBS! The bike shop that did the warranty swap on my RSC brake lever wasn't the shop where I purchased my bike...


Lucky you!

Did the new levers work? Have you tested them during a hot AF day?


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Finch Platte said:


> I got a box of Cheerios the other day that were stale- do I take them back to the store, or contact the manufacturer??
> 
> And who's going to install them in my bowl??


Take them to a different store and expect them to give you a refund. If they don't, throw a fit and then go complain on a cereal forum.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Jayem said:


> If they have a problem with that, they shouldn't be a dealer for them.


Why should they be expected to perform warranty work without being reimbursed? Sram is the one who made it and guaranteed it so it's on them to cover it. IME vendors who supply the shop make the process seamless and hassle free so it does kind of matter whether or not it was purchased there.


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

J.B. Weld said:


> Why should they be expected to perform warranty work without being reimbursed? Sram is the one who made it and guaranteed it so it's on them to cover it. IME vendors who supply the shop make the process seamless and hassle free so it does kind of matter whether or not it was purchased there.


Exactly my point. The dealer SHOULD be reimbursed. SRAM likes to blabber on and on about how good their brakes are, so stand by that and if you have a recall just reimburse dealers for recall labor... or just fire the "engineering" team since they are costing money and they are incompetent.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

J.B. Weld said:


> Why should they be expected to perform warranty work without being reimbursed?


I didn't say they shouldn't be reimbursed. If SRAM refuses to reimburse, the dealer should drop their products. This is why most companies just have you send back the entire unit or they send out an entirely new unit.


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

Jayem said:


> I didn't say they shouldn't be reimbursed. If SRAM refuses to reimburse, the dealer should drop their products. This is why most companies just have you send back the entire unit or they send out an entirely new unit.


The only reason they won't drop SRAM is because there are suckers out there like myself who are fooled into thinking SRAM products are the best. The demand won't make the dealer stop selling it.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I think this discussion shows that there's a problem in the bicycle industry, or at least with certain brands. I own a Honda and the last time I took to to the dealer for service, they replaced the recalled air bag inflator (this was national news and a big deal) and didn't charge me a dime. I assume they paid their mechanics for the time it took them to do the labor and billed Honda for the trouble and Honda is dealing with the airbag inflator manufacturer to get reimbursed for the hassle.

ideally, none of the costs of replacing defective products should fall on the consumer. perhaps driving to the bike shop or paying shipping to send a defective product back is reasonable, but a manufactrurer should make this pain-free if they want to continue doing business.

A good example is when someone pointed out potential danger the of getting a QR skewer lever stuck in a disc rotor. instead of risking millions in lawsuits, bicycle menufacturers voluntarily offered replacement skewers to any bicycle that might be affected by that. granted, replacing a skewer is much less labor intensive than replacing hydraulic brakes.

bicycle manufacturers have set up the business arrangement with dealers in such a way that there is little precident for paying bike shops back for labor, IME. I have dealt with a a handful of warranty issues but, to my recollection, they were all on bikes and products that were purchased at the same shop. we always just did the labor and SRAM (it was alwaysa SRAM products: road front derailleurs, mtb brakes, Rockshox forks).

ideally, you should be able to get your LBS to fix/replace the brakes and the shop should be reimbursed for the trouble, but the bike industry does not operate like that because the manufacturers have set it up that way. 

they screw over the LBS by not enforcing minimum advertised pricing to level the paying field between online and brick-and-mortar shops, driving customers to buy online and then, especially in the case of SRAM, leave the LBS with the burden of dealing with their crappy products. (I lost count of the number of Elixir brakes I had to replace, it was a weekly occurance.) they know that their QC sucks and they make their products so cheaply that they have to keep inflated prices just to offset the number of products they have to give away. the customer feels it in a sucky riding experience and the shop feels it in money wasted paying mechanics to fix defective parts all the time.

I think you need to do what's best for yourself and send a message at the same time by returning the brakes to where you bought them, buy a different product, and let SRAM know how much they suck and why you're not buying their pruducts any more.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Jayem said:


> I didn't say they shouldn't be reimbursed. If SRAM refuses to reimburse, the dealer should drop their products. This is why most companies just have you send back the entire unit or they send out an entirely new unit.


I always hated the hassle of warranting direct through the manufacturer, from a shops perspective buying from a quality vendor is sort of like having a lawyer or insurance company in your corner, they can deal with the manufacture more easily because of their buying leverage. In other words if I had a warranty issue with a sram brake that a customer bought from me I'd probably just deal with it then and there and just hand the faulty product to the vendor rep for credit the next time he came in, but I couldn't do that with a product that I didn't buy from that vendor.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

the message is being heard. I was working at a shop in 2012-13. we had nothing but trouble with all levels of SRAM road groups and Avid Elixir mtb brakes. we were on the phone contantly with SRAM and Trek trying to sort it out. when the '13 bikes started coming out, we noticed that Trek was spec-ing a lot fewer of their bikes with Avid brakes. our shop didn't order any bikes equipped with Avid brakes that season and we let our rep know exactly why: management looked at the numbers and listened to the mechanics complain. we had a word for the noise that all Avid brakes make, "squeeble-wobble." we started calling the company "SCRAM." the shop made a statement with their money and it was heard.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

If this is an actual product recall issue though it should be handled by any dealer and they should absolutely be reimbursed by sram.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

true. the two examples I mentioned were actual recalls and not just faulty products. perhaps they were inappropriate examples.

To clarify, did SRAM issue a general recall of any Guide products or did you have an issue with your specific one? Granted, QC issues with SRAM brakes are common, but a warranty-able issue with ine unit is not the same as a recall.


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

idividebyzero said:


> Shimano bleed kits are completely incompatible, Sram uses a needlessly expensive and needlessly proprietary connection, and they needlessly use DOT fluid which destroys normal plastic/rubber after one use. DOT is also very much a pain in the ass to work with because its like acid.
> 
> Shimano brakes can be bled with a cheap bleed funnel and a generic $5 syringe and tube.
> 
> I took apart some Avid levers because the stupid DOT fluid causes the plastic to swell and get stuck in the lever. Replacing the plunger should be easy, definitely not worth $100 of labor, the worst part is dealing with the DOT fluid which is really nasty stuff.


I will never own another brake that uses DOT fluid, nor a SRAM brake, for all the reasons you listed above. Not to mention when DOT fluid eats paint, and also absorbs water, so that bottle of fluid you bought and used like 20 mL of is probably junk by the next time you need it. Add in that it eats paint, burns your skin, and needs to be disposed of as a hazardous waste, and I can't think of any reason whatsoever to go back to a DOT fluid brake.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

I'm still waiting for OP to tell us what JensonUSA says..... 
.

I agree, DOT fluid is nasty stuff. My old Avid brakes corroded something awful. What's the reasoning for using it over mineral oil anyway? What does Hope, etc use?

I keep reading reviewers complaining about new XT brakes specced on enduro/trail bikes. Saying they prefer the 4 pot Guides modulation and power. What's the Shimano equivalent, Saint?


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

mack_turtle said:


> the message is being heard. I was working at a shop in 2012-13. we had nothing but trouble with all levels of SRAM road groups and Avid Elixir mtb brakes. we were on the phone contantly with SRAM and Trek trying to sort it out. when the '13 bikes started coming out, we noticed that Trek was spec-ing a lot fewer of their bikes with Avid brakes. our shop didn't order any bikes equipped with Avid brakes that season and we let our rep know exactly why: management looked at the numbers and listened to the mechanics complain. we had a word for the noise that all Avid brakes make, "squeeble-wobble." we started calling the company "SCRAM." the shop made a statement with their money and it was heard.


Now the crappy brakes have a different name on the label.

Mission accomplished!


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## LargeMan (May 20, 2017)

I have seen many bad SRAM brakes over the years, but the Guide RS when working are the best brake I have ever used and I am a Hope fanboy. Once the levers are swapped you will love the brakes, hands down out perform any XT brake after the fix.

You do not need to bleed the entire system. I have now done 20 or so and have come up with a fairly easy way to replace the levers. Take the brake off of the bike, disconnect the hose and keep it upright, then pump fluid through the new lever with a syringe and attach the hose as the fluid is coming out and top off. Works like a charm, be careful not to let the extra fluid drop onto the caliper when holding up. Does take 2 people to do, one to pump the fluid through and the second to attach the hose while doing so. Got the procedure down to less then 5 minutes for a pair.

And $100 to bleed a set of brakes is outrageous, find another shop. Send them to me and I will do it for $25 plus postage and take care of submitting the warranty :thumbsup:


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## spartan_msu (May 8, 2008)

I just had this done at my LBS on my Guide RSC brakes that had the same issue. They got the new levers in about a week, I dropped my bike off an they had it ready the next day. They gave me a discount on the labor, the whole thing cost me $20.


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## DiRt DeViL (Dec 24, 2003)

Have had bad experiences with SRAM brakes and had DOT based brakes (Hayes) before, never again to both.  Currently on Magura and very happy.

Make the claim to Jenson as others said, your LBS has nothing to do with the warranty claim.


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

spartan_msu said:


> I just had this done at my LBS on my Guide RSC brakes that had the same issue. They got the new levers in about a week, I dropped my bike off an they had it ready the next day. They gave me a discount on the labor, the whole thing cost me $20.


Did they send new levers or internals?


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## LargeMan (May 20, 2017)

Engineer90 said:


> Did they send new levers or internals?


On every set we have done, they have sent complete levers.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Interesting thread. In my experience jensonUSA is a top-notch online retailer and does a great job supporting their customers. Go through them first.



I bought my zee brakes in 2011 because they were cheap cuz a new version superseded them. They're fantastic. I've replaced the levers with random shimano ones cuz i broke them, they never fade regardless of pad/rotor, the power is fantastic, and i can tune them with pad compound and rotor size to feel just right. Heavy, but that disappears once they're mounted on the bike. I'll run zee until the standards parade imposes obsolescence, and then i'll buy their equivalent.

I've had multiple sets of avid/sram brakes, and the best thing about them is the high retail price means some sucker is always willing to buy my warrantied garbage.


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## DDDonny (Sep 14, 2005)

Engineer90 said:


> Lucky you!
> 
> Did the new levers work? Have you tested them during a hot AF day?


Sure have! It's been hot as **** here for the past week or so, and yeah, the lever's been spot on...

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## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

I second (third, fourth, fifth, ...) the reccommendation to just sell the sram brakes and buy some Deore XTs. Not only were my avid brakes a continual nightmare, I eventually developed a skin rash reaction to the harsh DOT 5.1 brake fluid. 

I don't know if I'll develop a reaction to Shimano's mineral oil because all three sets of shimano brakes on three different bikes never need bleeding as opposed to every few weeks on the Avid Elixer 4s.


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

Since some of you guys asked, I contacted JensonUSA and said to send them the brakes and they would handle all of the warranty paperwork, send it to SRAM and then they will either fix or replace the levers.

Hopefully it all goes well.


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## Allagash (Aug 26, 2013)

I took the Sram Guide brakes off my S Works Fat Boy and put Hope brakes on it. It's the best upgrade I've made to the bike yet. Sram Guide brakes suck. Go Shimano or Hope and you'll be happy. From what my LBS is telling me, Sram is reluctant to admit that the Guides suck. I'm done with Sram brakes....


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## Engineer90 (Apr 10, 2015)

Allagash said:


> I took the Sram Guide brakes off my S Works Fat Boy and put Hope brakes on it. It's the best upgrade I've made to the bike yet. Sram Guide brakes suck. Go Shimano or Hope and you'll be happy. From what my LBS is telling me, Sram is reluctant to admit that the Guides suck. I'm done with Sram brakes....


So far the brakes are good. I got them back within 2 weeks. Never again will I get Guide brakes when upgrading any bike in the future.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

Did anyone have any luck getting SRAM to compensate them for costs regarding service and or warranty?

Just found a stuck piston in my Guide R rear brake lever on a 2017 Kona Process 153. Bike was hardly ridden.

I'm so disappointing with SRAM, looks like they're more interested in suing Wolftooth, Praxis, Race Face & Hayes rather than quality control & customer service.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

mack_turtle said:


> please do! I lack the education and skills, but there are a lot of schenanigans, tomfoolery, and kerfuffling in the bicycle industry that makes me wonder if half of the people running it take their jobs seriously.


Whaaaaaat?!?

Since when???


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## Dropper (Mar 1, 2018)

eshew said:


> Did anyone have any luck getting SRAM to compensate them for costs regarding service and or warranty?
> 
> Just found a stuck piston in my Guide R rear brake lever on a 2017 Kona Process 153. Bike was hardly ridden.
> 
> I'm so disappointing with SRAM, looks like they're more interested in suing Wolftooth, Praxis, Race Face & Hayes rather than quality control & customer service.


I dont think its worth the time. Go buy some shimanos, hopes, maguras

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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

Yeah that's what I'm thinking as well.

I've been using shimano since the old school 4 piston XT's came out but the bike came with the Guide R's. 

I was happy to try out the SRAM brakes after hating every Avid I ever rode. But now that hate transfers to SRAM as well.

I assume the only reason an official recall hasn't been made is because the brakes don't fail to operate. They just drag, wonder if any one has taken any headers off jumps or drops due to the excess drag? 

I'll try removing the piston & sanding to see how that works, I really don't want to spend the money as this bike is under a year old... 

Even the dealers around here are saying the same thing. "Just get shimano" They are obviously getting sick of replacing customer brakes & their own.


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## Dropper (Mar 1, 2018)

Yeah my wifes TB3 has Sram Level Ts and they have been fine. But was part of the bad period of time on two other bikes we own that came with the guides and just went the XT route.

I wonder how pivot gets away with like 12 build per bike. You can get just a mash up stuff which is cool. They seem to be able to go sram drive train and shimano brakes just fine.

I do think though sram did address the error they had, with that said bleeding shimanos is a bit less complicated doing it by yourself.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

Well just to button up... Called 3 shops to check if they would do the warranty work for me.

Shop 1: $40 warranty paperwork + $45 labor
Shop 2: $25 warranty paperwork + $40 labor
Shop 3: $0 if under warranty, $40 otherwise for a bleed/inspection

SRAM was kind enough to get back to me after I messaged their FB account complaining about the cost of warranty work, this was prior to contacting shop #3.

"If you are in the USA, please have your dealer request labor compensation from our Dealer Service warranty folks so you will not have to pay out of pocket."

Hope this helps!


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## tealy (Mar 7, 2013)

okay


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## Black Squirrel (Oct 13, 2016)

As stated above, SRAM will cover labor costs (at their rate if I remember correctly), and charging for warranty paperwork is complete BS, especially with SRAM.

There is no paperwork, they are literally the easiest company to deal with for warranty.

1. Dealer calls SRAM

2. SRAM mails out new parts

3. *IF* SRAM wants the old parts back, they include a padded envelope with a return label on it.

4. Dealer puts old parts in the padded envelope and hands it to which ever carrier its being shipped with.


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## DDDonny (Sep 14, 2005)

Black Squirrel said:


> As stated above, SRAM will cover labor costs (at their rate if I remember correctly), and charging for warranty paperwork is complete BS, especially with SRAM.
> 
> There is no paperwork, they are literally the easiest company to deal with for warranty.
> 
> ...


I totally agree! I had my left lever replaced 06/2017, and then my right lever 04/2018. Both levers were replaced by the same shop which, btw, was not where I purchased my bike from! Regardless, the owner of the shop is a helluva dude, and had no issues whatsoever in taking care of my warranty issues with SRAM...






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