# Project Hunyango* : 5-in-1 bike frame



## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

Been toying with the idea of having a custom frame made by a known frame builder here in the Philippines. For more than a week, I've done the tedious job of finding a "middle ground" for frame geometry that will allow the bike to be set up in 1 of 5 variations: 29er, 26er XC, Trail, AM or possibly a 69er!

The biggest challenge was the bottom bracket height that would be too high in the 29er mode and too low in the 26er mode. So far, I could think of no other solutuion but to have two BB shells on top of each other! (The lower shell will be used in 29er mode while the upper shell will be for the 26er modes.)

Here are the drawings. Each variation or mode is represented by a color..
purple for rigid 29er mode, yellow for 100mm-forked XC 26er, orange for 120mm-forked Trail 26er, red for 150mm-forked AM 26er (69er mode not shown).


















At 69er (rigid) mode, the geometry would be HA:69.0deg SA:71.0deg A-C:473mm TT:22.9in ST:17.5in CS:16.75in BB:12.75in WB:41.6in

Whadyathink people?

*Hunyango - (Filipino) an animal that can adapt and blend to its surroundings; a chameleon


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

interesting idea, run external bb's on both and the swapping from one to the next should be quick. (remember to plug the bb axle holes, maybe a wine cork?  )

for what it's worth, I think you should skip the second bb, and skip the middle two options.
just run rigid 29er and 150mm AM 26er.
if my bike can handle 150mm fork and i have a 150mm fork at home, it would have 150mm fork on it, I wouldn't want to put a 120 on and make the 150 sit idle.

the 120/100 on 26er options nearly overlap, and the other two nearly overlap. the second bb is required to run the 120/100 option only.
I would just choose to run the opposite ends of the spectrum and not try to cover everything in between.

you've got two bikes, a 150AM 26er/rigid 29er and a 120/100 26er.
overlapping them is a cool idea, but I don't see the middle range being as useful as the ability to convert from the extremes.

alternate idea: oval hole with bb threaded into an insert.
like big weird EBB only you remove insert, flip upside down, bb is now instantly 1 " higher.
but a big oval bb shell and insert aren't readily avialable so...


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

Re-think your Axle to crown measurements and your BB drop and you can easily make a bike accept both 26" and 700c wheels .
There will be minimal difference between the two BB's to ground measurements, but not enough to warrant building a frame with 2 bb shells .


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## ElkCycles (May 31, 2010)

Personally, I've never believed in the one bike for all situations route. It seems that you are sacrificing the best characteristics of each bike to achieve a middle of the road route that doesn't allow any of the best individual characteristics to shine. 

My 2 cents having been put in, I commend your efforts to negotiate so many different types of designs into one package.


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

At first glance, I'd wonder if you might have interference issues if you don't position the chainstays correctly. I'd guess you'd want them be centered between the bottom brackets.

Other than that, I'm emotionally caught between "a bike that does everything does nothing well" and "Holy $hit, I really want to see a bike with stacked bottom brackets!".


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## Yogii (Jun 5, 2008)

Why?????????????????


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

Umm......I plotted out a frame that could take all 3 wheel sizes, using an EBB and sliding dropouts to compensate last year. That bit worked fine.

That bit that didn't though, it was the fork axle-to-crowns. To keep the HTA at 71 degrees, you'd have to run the 650b front wheel in the 29er fork, and use a 100mm 26er fork (vs 80mm for 29 and 650b). Not really comparing apples-with-apples.

Only real solution is a dedicated rigid fork with adjustable rake and brake bosses.

The goal for this shelved project was to have a bike the magazines could test by just changing the wheels over, but really, the more you compromise, the more you end up with a bike that does nothing properly.


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

the advantage to being able to build frames is that it's easier just to build another frame than to make something that meets all possible future needs. Customers might have a different perspective.


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## brant (Jan 6, 2004)

Thylacine said:


> The goal for this shelved project was to have a bike the magazines could test by just changing the wheels over, but really, the more you compromise, the more you end up with a bike that does nothing properly.


Surely it's just easier to build two or three frames and fit the same parts?


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

Again, why?


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## Yogii (Jun 5, 2008)

Now to really make thing complicated, how about building a frame that you can use a chain on, a belt on, and be Rohloff compatable. Don't forget the quick release cranks!


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## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

Yogii said:


> Now to really make thing complicated, how about building a frame that you can use a chain on, a belt on, and be Rohloff compatable. Don't forget the quick release cranks!


That is just silly talk. He really should worry about having it go between 5 inches of rear suspension for all-mountain 26er mode, soft tail with 1 inch of travel for XC mode and a hard tail for 29er mode. :thumbsup:

Really, MHO buy the custom frame for the type of riding you do most and some cheapie hard tail frame for the other type of riding.


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

Yogii said:


> Now to really make thing complicated, how about building a frame that you can use a chain on, a belt on, and be Rohloff compatable. Don't forget the quick release cranks!


It needs to fold!

And a recumbent mode...


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## Francis Buxton (Apr 2, 2004)

I agree with most of the posts in regards to having to make a few too many compromises to meet so many different uses, wheel sizes and A-C measurements. I would probably try to pick two that you can make work reasonably well together (the 29er and one of the 26er configurations). Also, instead of stacked bbs, why not just use an EBB? You can swing the bottom bracket 0.5", so it could be all the way down in 29er mode, and all the way up in 26er mode and you keep your BB relatively the same height from the ground. Add in a swinging or sliding dropout, and you can adjust the chainstay length to work with the two wheel diameters. You will probably end up with some kind of issue on the HTA or STA not being quite perfect, but it shouldn't be insanely far off if you're careful.

See if you can post a more detailed drawing with dimensions on it.


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## bobbotron (Nov 28, 2007)

Blaster1200 said:


> That is just silly talk. He really should worry about having it go between 5 inches of rear suspension for all-mountain 26er mode, soft tail with 1 inch of travel for XC mode and a hard tail for 29er mode. :thumbsup:
> 
> Really, MHO buy the custom frame for the type of riding you do most and some cheapie hard tail frame for the other type of riding.


That would be like a Bionicon's big brother!


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

Why?

Why not if it is an exciting and enjoyable process!


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

brant said:


> Surely it's just easier to build two or three frames and fit the same parts?


It was about spending a comparable amount on a "bike test" rather than advertising. I figured spending 4 times the amount would've been a bit of an over investment.


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## Yogii (Jun 5, 2008)

If you really want to..................
How about a huge oversized BB shell that you run an EBB in? That way you can change your BB height. Look into the Specialized headset angle adjuster thing, I hear that it offers you to change your head angle by as much a 3 degrees. Ex-long sliders would be nice too....


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## Winter Bicycles (Jun 8, 2008)

Moving the BB around might keep the frame to ground specs the same, but its going to move the rider to frame specs (ie- "fit") while doing so.


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

An EBB was an early consideration but had to drop the idea. Aside from it costing as much as the frame itself, an EBB's throw is not sufficient to change the bottom bracket height when switching between 26er and 29er mode (the bb is still low in 26er mode and still high in 29er mode).


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## Yogii (Jun 5, 2008)

4 inch BB shell! Make your own EBB......a 4 inch BB shell will give your EBB enough "throw". But we all know this is a stupid project.....


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

Yogii said:


> 4 inch BB shell! Make your own EBB......a 4 inch BB shell will give your EBB enough "throw". But we all know this is a stupid project.....


O c'mon! "Stupid" projects are the most fun to do!:smilewinkgrin: 
But only to those who know that doing "stupid" projects is the smart thing to do if you really wanna learn. (Instead of just branding others' projects as stupid).


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

*FRAME IS FINISHED* (after over a year of going back and forth on the drawing board, and over a month of actual fabrication/building) *!!!*

*YEAHH!!!*:band:

full shot of the starboard:









full shot of the portside:









detail shot of the 1.5 head tube:









detail shot of the down tube and dual bb cluster:









detail shot of the dual bb, seat tube and chain stay junctions:









detail shot of the brakeside dropout:









the dropouts were waterjet-cut based on my design...









detail shot of the driveside dropout:









horizontal dropouts for singlespeed use, with a derailleur hanger for geared use...









the upper bb will be used for 26er mode...









the lower bb will be used for 29er mode...









gear cable and brake hose internal routing top ports:









gear cable and brake hose internal routing bottom ports:









bottom view of chain stays and cable/hose guides:









top view of seat stays:









angled shot of the frame (starboard):









angled shot of the frame (portside):









*HUNYANGO frame numbers (in 29er mode with 480mm a-to-c fork):*
head tube angle: 70 degrees
seat tube angle: 73 degrees
effective top tube length: 22.5 inches
seat tube length: 16.5 inches (from center of lower bb to top of seat tube)
head tube length: 100mm
chain stay length: 17.5 inches (from center of lower bb to middle of horizontal slot)
bb height (lower bb): 12 inches
front center: 25.35 inches
wheelbase: 42.28 inches (shortest possible setting)
maximum tire width: 2.4x29 and 2.7x26
maximum rotor diameter: 180mm​


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## jgerhardt (Aug 31, 2009)

Now that is a very unique frame!
How often do you plan on changing setups?


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

jgerhardt said:


> Now that is a very unique frame!
> How often do you plan on changing setups?


As often as I like (I guess)..

Thanks!


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## sonic reducer (Apr 12, 2010)

those dropouts are art!!


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

titaniumgearsolid said:


> *FRAME IS FINISHED* (after over a year of going back and forth on the drawing board, and over a month of actual fabrication/building) *!!!*
> 
> *YEAHH!!!*:band:


Awesome TGS! Have you posted that in PMTB? (haven't checked in there for quite a while).
I'm excited to see how this will look built up.
Which BB do you reckon would be better for 650B?


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## TLKD (Mar 29, 2010)

F*** Yah man 
Loving her, she's silly & cool looking ! Nice fillet brazed work.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Didn't someone have a...

... bolt on rear swingarm set up to go from 26 to 29?
Carver?

I compliment you for your efforts but...

... the concept sounds good on paper but in actual trail use are you going to stop and bolt on or change cranks and everything around?

I guess at least you could set up pre ride for the trail of the day

I just grab the bike of the day...
... for the trail of the day!

Good luck!


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## swift (Apr 3, 2007)

Definately interesting!
I commend your creativity and gumption to get it finished. Please share build pics and thoughts on how she rides when you get that far.


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## Cracked Headtube (Apr 16, 2006)

TiGear:
Did you fab the hose guides too?
Where in the Philippines are you? My Uncle was trying to get me to move out there a few years back.

NEPMTBA:
Yes Carver had a FS frame that would go 26 or 29. So does Castellano, his is a steel frame.


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## Yogii (Jun 5, 2008)

"Build it and they will come" .......

Much nicer than I thought it would be, your builder has some skills! Now will a 36"wheel fit?
Please post 26'r and 29'r configuration pics...


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

TLKD said:


> F*** Yah man
> Loving her, she's silly & cool looking ! Nice fillet brazed work.


Brazing was done by no other than Filipino frame builder Ave Maldea.:thumbsup:


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

NEPMTBA said:


> Didn't someone have a...
> 
> ... bolt on rear swingarm set up to go from 26 to 29?
> Carver?
> ...


Of course changing setups mid-ride was out of the question since day one. Who brings an extra wheel (or two wheels) to the trail just to change the setup in the middle of the woods? The idea is to offer versatility in setting it up for the chosen type of use or riding. Changing it can be as often or as seldom. It will all depend on the one who will use it.


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

swift said:


> Definately interesting!
> I commend your creativity and gumption to get it finished. Please share build pics and thoughts on how she rides when you get that far.


Will do. Thanks!:thumbsup:
"Gumption"? I like the sound of that. Reminds me of Forrest Gump.


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

r1Gel said:


> Awesome TGS! Have you posted that in PMTB? (haven't checked in there for quite a while).
> I'm excited to see how this will look built up.
> Which BB do you reckon would be better for 650B?


I haven't either.
I'm excited too!
For 650b, either bb will do, depends on how low you'd want the center of gravity to be, or how much ground clearance you want. And if a shorter fork is used, then it will be the upper bb. Then if a longer fork is used, the lower bb will be ideal.

Thanks!


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

Cracked Headtube said:


> TiGear:
> Did you fab the hose guides too?
> Where in the Philippines are you? My Uncle was trying to get me to move out there a few years back.
> 
> ...


The hose guides under the chain stays were done by the frame builder. He also did the internal routing tubes. I had to take care of the fabrication of the other bits, which were done by a gunsmith. Those were the dual bb holder (to keep the two shells aligned when they were welded together), the head tube and an earlier version of the dropouts (manual milling). The final dropouts were done via computer-aided cutting (waterjet).

I'm in Makati City. But the frame builder is based in Rizal. But there's a lot of ride spots all over the place!:thumbsup:


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

Yogii said:


> "Build it and they will come" .......
> 
> Much nicer than I thought it would be, your builder has some skills! Now will a 36"wheel fit?
> Please post 26'r and 29'r configuration pics...


The 36-inch wheels were never part of the plan. So no, 36er is definitely out of the question.

Yup, the frame builder has very good skills. But not a lot of attention to detail (details of the plan/design). Because he forgot that I wanted a front-facing seat tube slot. And when he put it rear-facing, he failed to center it. So if you eyeball the frame from the rear, it will be obvious to OC people like me that it is off by more-or-less 2mm.:madman:


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

sonic reducer said:


> those dropouts are art!!


Thanks! But they are more for function than form. It's just a bonus that they came out beautiful!


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## MDEnvEngr (Mar 11, 2004)

You need to make some screw-in plastic caps to put in the unused BB to keep the dirt and mud out. Neat frame! B


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## Yogii (Jun 5, 2008)

Don't sweat the seat post slot-the rest is sweet... Now lets see if you like to ride it in any of the configurations! horses for courses...
Paint or PC? The frame deserves a decent finish coat! Pretty color too!
Did you ever think about using one of those Specialized(maybe other people make them too) adjustable Head Seats? You get up to 3 degrees of adjustment(more variables), they say?

Well done!


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

Yogii said:


> Don't sweat the seat post slot-the rest is sweet... Now lets see if you like to ride it in any of the configurations! horses for courses...
> Paint or PC? The frame deserves a decent finish coat! Pretty color too!
> Did you ever think about using one of those Specialized(maybe other people make them too) adjustable Head Seats? You get up to 3 degrees of adjustment(more variables), they say?
> 
> Well done!


Well, one little detail done wrong is one big annoying detail. That's me being OC.
Yeah, we'll see if it will indeed be good in any of its guises.
As for the coat, I still want it painted. Now I'm trying to find a local paint mixer shop that carries Dupont Chromalusion. I want it in green that turns to orange and then purple depending on the angle of lighting.
As for the headset, I wanted a 1.5 headtube because I intended to use a Cane Creek Angleset for added variables in setting it up.
Thanks!


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

Are you going to make some sort of plugs for the BB that you're not using at the time
To keep out the usual trail debris?


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

todwil said:


> Are you going to make some sort of plugs for the BB that you're not using at the time
> To keep out the usual trail debris?


I guess those will be at the bottom of my To-Do list. But yes, plastic threaded caps will be good for keeping out mud and dirt.

Next thing I need to prioritize is testing with an e-thirteen alloy ISCG adapter, to see how it will be "clocked" in each bb so that I may know how the steel ISCG tabs will be positioned on either of the bb shells. I'm thinking of a single mounting tab welded to the frame, onto which the steel ISCG "adapter" will be screwed on.

So there will be a tab that holds the ISCG tabs.

This will ensure that the ISCG "adapter" will not rotate, especially if used with a Hammerschmidt.


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## heeler (Feb 13, 2004)

Why not install a pair of BB's (would have to be square taper or otherwise not external based on photo), such that you could literally change with just an allen wrench?


Would make your plastic caps smaller too!


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## rocwandrer (Oct 19, 2008)

I'm having trouble seeing how the chain can possibly clear the chainstays when using the upper bottom bracket? Also, it looks (maybe it is just the photo) like the upper BB got distorted by brazing?


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## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

rocwandrer said:


> I'm having trouble seeing how the chain can possibly clear the chainstays when using the upper bottom bracket? Also, it looks (maybe it is just the photo) like the upper BB got distorted by brazing?


Or how the front derailleur cage is going to clear the upper bottom bracket when using the cranks in the lower position.


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## heeler (Feb 13, 2004)

rocwandrer said:


> I'm having trouble seeing how the chain can possibly clear the chainstays when using the upper bottom bracket? Also, it looks (maybe it is just the photo) like the upper BB got distorted by brazing?


Interesting point...maybe the CS's should have been brazed between the two BB's rather than to the bottom.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Yes*

Dr. Welby pointed that out, like, 6 months ago. Guess that advice went unheeded.

At least it will work as a SS/1x 29er.

My advice - skip spending any money on paint and ride it to see if you actually like it (and if you can actually set it up the way you want).

IMO just building 2 frames would have made a lot more sense.

-Walt



On-One said:


> Interesting point...maybe the CS's should have been brazed between the two BB's rather than to the bottom.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

On-One said:


> Interesting point...maybe the CS's should have been brazed between the two BB's rather than to the bottom.


*GASP* You mean..... like..... slightly.... _elevated_ chainstays? 

*EDITED: because tardnuts here quoted the wrong person....


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## heeler (Feb 13, 2004)

sean salach said:


> *GASP* You mean..... like..... slightly.... _elevated_ chainstays?
> 
> *EDITED: because tardnuts here quoted the wrong person....


Well, yah...if we are talking about the bottom BB. From the top BB point of view they are just some weird kinda lowered CS's...


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

My comment didn't work as well quoting you. For some reason, my overly excited brain had registered it as Walt suggesting them. I should have known better.


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

*Hunyango in 29er Mode (test build only)*

Sorry, wrong post.
Please see post below:


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

I was able to do a 26er mode test build in December. This time, in 29er mode.
It's a singlespeed even if the rear has nine cogs. That's because the SS kit doesn't want to fit into the Hope rear hub (I dunno why). And yes, the frame is still raw, as I haven't gotten the paint yet. That's why the brakeline is still temporarily zip-tied to the downtube instead of internally routed.
Pardon the low-quality photographs, I only used a phone-cam for these...


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## TLKD (Mar 29, 2010)

If I were you I'd just give her a light sand and clear coat her.
I beleive the fillet braze & raw steel together look RAD, would be too bad to hide this.

Cheers.


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## rocwandrer (Oct 19, 2008)

TLKD said:


> If I were you I'd just give her a light sand and clear coat her.
> I beleive the fillet braze & raw steel together look RAD, would be too bad to hide this.
> 
> Cheers.


Everyone I've ever heard from who tried that was eventually unhappy with the blossoming of imperfections in the clearcoat that occurred over time, and wouldn't have been visible with paint. Not saying it can't be done, but I'm discouraged from doing it myself....

Did the chain end up clearing the chainstays in 26'er mode?


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

rocwandrer said:


> Did the chain end up clearing the chainstays in 26'er mode?


In 26er mode, I used a 32T chainring and 16T cog, and of course the upper BB shell. The chain cleared the chainstays, yes. Although it barely cleared the gear cable guides (by around 3mm).


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

TLKD said:


> If I were you I'd just give her a light sand and clear coat her.
> I beleive the fillet braze & raw steel together look RAD, would be too bad to hide this.
> 
> Cheers.


The Soul Cycles Dillinger rigid fork came stock with the paintwork you are talking about. And yes it's rad. But not for long. Because there are areas that later on had rust propagating, like the corrosion was a living organism (with tentacles).


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

Took the Hunyango out for a quick test ride this morning..














































I'm liking how nimble it feels. Doesn't feel much different from a 26er. Those roots were gobbled up. But the fork is less forgiving than the frame.

(Orange bits: Fireye SS kit and La Bici wide bar)


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## Yogii (Jun 5, 2008)

Doesn't that seat angle hurt!


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

Yogii said:


> Doesn't that seat angle hurt!


Not at all. Though it is not my ideal angle. But I was previously using the bike with the saddle slammed down for some bunnyhop testing. Didn't bother to adjust it to a level angle for that particular short test ride.


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## badjick (Jan 14, 2011)

Bossing, that bike is so nice. Is it a Maldea built frame? I wanted one!


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

That is cra


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

That is crazy fun


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## tehschkott (Apr 2, 2009)

Do you prefer it as a 29er or a 26?


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## team_wee (Mar 26, 2006)

Just stumbled on to this. Love the idea! I did something very similar but with 26" wheels freeride/all-mountain set-up with fox 36 160mm (talas) and 650b XC/trail set-up with fox 32 100mm. The perfect one bike!


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## r3xnvb (Feb 7, 2012)

May I ask who fabricated the frame. There were only a handful of guys that I knew when I was there. Recently my dad has given it some thought too. He wanted to have "Abe?" build him a steel HT based on the Niner SIR. Anyways, he just got an EMD frame for his 65th birthday.

Nice name for the frame. Hunyango, that means Chameleon diba?


Ride safe pare!


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

Hunyango In Its Two Guises:
SS Rigid 29er and AM Geared 26er


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

Wow that's insanely impressive. I like the rear disc brake mount/drop out - its very clean!


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## titaniumgearsolid (Mar 13, 2008)

Here's the current configuration of my Hunyango:
29er Geared Rigid


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## teatreetim (Nov 14, 2011)

Without any bottom bracket in the upper tube arent you worried it wont support the forces from the seat tube and deform? Maybe put some end caps in there.


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## komekomegaijin (Nov 9, 2008)

I was just about to comment on the same thing as teatreetim. Perhaps the shop that built it for you could machine up a couple of aluminium plugs with either blind allen key hole or an external hex head and that'll seal up the frame nicely too. 

Great design!


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