# "Performance" Hybrids/Early 700c MTB's



## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

I have searched the old posts on the subject, and I am liking what I saw there. I am interested in seeing any other photos of any performance hybrid/700c Mt. Bikes from back in the day. Whether you currently own them, or have old pics, no matter.

Specialized Crossroads
Diamondback Overdrive/ Overdrive Comp
Bianchi Project 3/5/7
GT 700d
etc.

I recently picked up a Schwinn crisscross (more hybrid than performance ), but it has the wheels in my mind (and my shop) turning :thumbsup:

I will post pics of mine as I got it (for $30) when I get home.

thanks

frog


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

Heres my Bianchi Project 5 that I've had for a few years. I love the bike  Works great in the dirt, handles like any other MTB. I took it to Maui recently for a loaded bike tour. The dirt drop bars proved to be perfect for the slow climbs with lots of hand positions :thumbsup:


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## logbiter (Dec 30, 2003)

"performance" being the operative word 

Here's my resto-mod '90 or '91 trek 750. $0.99 + $50 s/h on fleabay from somewhere in the SE...
I had to go to town w/ wire wheel & dremel to get all the rust out from under the powdercoat. Then rattle canned w/ brown primer & flat black.










Hrmm, looking at her, the only OE components left are the headset (I added a 'period correct' specialized locknut) & front derailler. Most other parts were from the parts bin, ebay specials or friend castoff deals (vista wheelset & 10spd sti).

Here's commute mode w/ the vista's & 700x37. I need to get w/ my knobbier 45's. 
I'm about to put on some fenders & a rack to add some utility. I'll also switch out the sti for some barend shifters whenever I get around to building up more of a road bike.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

The Mountain Goat Route 66 was very cool back in the day. Many of them were a cool red/white/blue paint scheme and a couple of the magazine bikes sported Campy parts and I think another one had some Grafton bits on it as well.


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## djmuff (Sep 8, 2004)

In the questionable "performance" category, here's my 1991 Cannondale SH400. It's my rain bike, and my get-around-town commuter when I have errands to run or a decent distance to ride. Or if I want to get their fast. Love the big wheels. I swapped out a few parts, like the seat, cranks & pedals, and the bar/stem/shifter combo, but left the rest of the Suntour bits. It's fun bunny-hopping curbs on this.









And the project that I should finally start soon- just waiting on a few more things, is a 700D GT that you mentioned. I've got a 1991 GT Tachyon frame & fork, and figured out that 650B wheels would fit perfectly. The original thread I posted it in is below, and I'll definitely post photos when it's completed.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=267798&highlight=tachyon


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

A friend that worked for WSI had this and I talked him out of it in '95 after meeting Wes and listening to him go on and on about 700c wheels for use offroad. Didn't ride it much with the original smokes on it but when the "tire" appeared in 99' I got it out of the overhead and lo and behold they fit, well not mud fit, but fit. Slapped on the Manitou 700c and rode that bike quite a bit while awaiting my Willits to be built. It is still in use today. I have sold it for $100 three times now and bought it back for $100 twice. The current owner likes it alot and I doubt I will be buying it back again. But the offer stands.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*Crisscross pics*

Thanks for all the posts so far, keep 'em coming!

Here is the pic of mine when I bought it. It is a 22" which fits, but is a little lacking in standover, I would love to find one of the bikes I mentioned above that is an 18" or 20", but this will do to experiment with. This will take over as my commuter, and may see some trail duty depending on what tires I find for it.

I am planning on leaving it somewhat stock, except it will be a 1X7, have a different stem (ebay no name with cable stop and roller), bar (probably a Salsa moto ace 17 deg X660mm) and rear shifter (xt thumbie from the parts bin), Nashbar seatpost with shim, and some C-dale saddle I bought a while ago.

I need to see how big a tire I can stuff in there. I am hoping at least a 35-38 CX tire, and maybe even a 45 if I luck out.:thumbsup:

Anyone know if the xt shifter will work ok with the suntour rear der.?

frog


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## RickD. (Apr 7, 2004)

First Flight said:


> The Mountain Goat Route 66 was very cool back in the day. Many of them were a cool red/white/blue paint scheme and a couple of the magazine bikes sported Campy parts and I think another one had some Grafton bits on it as well.


The shop I used to work at would get two Route 66's in once a year for their annual tuneup. They were owned by an older couple. These bikes were never really ridden, so the tune up basically consisted of dusting them off and airing the tires. Very beautiful bikes, and in very good condition. If I remember correctly, they also had a pair of matching Seven's with S&S couplers that we would see on a more regular basis than the Goats.


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

I've posted this bike before, but not since I cleaned it up and swapped tires. It's a 1993 Overdrive Comp. It's essentially stock (mostly XC Pro + Dia Comp 986 brakes) except for Tioga Revolvers and 3ttt flat bar. I got a cheap NOS Brahma to put on, so it'll go back to stock in that regard. 

Tires went from the original Smokes to IRC Mythos CX 42mm. This is the Greenway/Path/Neighborhood bike and I'm very happy with it.

One project almost done leaning against one project that's just starting...


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

GT Quatrefoil 700D tandem. Just put the 2.0 Knobby's back on this past weekend. Time to go mudding.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

*1970?*

What year is the Z?



cegrover said:


> I've posted this bike before, but not since I cleaned it up and swapped tires. It's a 1993 Overdrive Comp. It's essentially stock (mostly XC Pro + Dia Comp 986 brakes) except for Tioga Revolvers and 3ttt flat bar. I got a cheap NOS Brahma to put on, so it'll go back to stock in that regard.
> 
> Tires went from the original Smokes to IRC Mythos CX 42mm. This is the Greenway/Path/Neighborhood bike and I'm very happy with it.
> 
> One project almost done leaning against one project that's just starting...


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

*1989 Bridgestone MB-3*

For me, this little bike is a lot of fun. I love steel bikes...


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

The Specialized Crossroads I built for my gf, using Bontrager Jones XR 29 x 1.8 tires.









<img src="https://yoda.densan.ca/kmr/bikes/crossroads3.jpg"


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## Archangel (Jan 15, 2004)

*1995 Klein Adept XT*

Here's my 1995 Klein Adept hybrid with full Deore XT M737 parts spec.
As you might know the Adept is an Adroit on 700c wheels: it has the same multiple butted tubing and 2" downtube but lacks Adroit's boron/carbon reinforcements.
This one has a special-order "Coral Reef" paintjob.


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

jeff said:


> What year is the Z?


The Z is a '75 (first year of the 280 and first for fuel injection). Despite the door panels and dash visible in the shot, the interior's been gutted out to hunt for rust and it'll hit the body shop soon for rust repair, 240Z bumper install and paint. I have a 3.1L stroker waiting to go in it after that - I'm hoping it's fairly ridiculous when done!

Bike topic: Are all the bikes in this thread 29ers?!?!?!?!


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## Archangel (Jan 15, 2004)

There was also a S-Works "Crossroads" hybrid on Spesh 1992 catalog. Never seen one but in that catalog pic. Might be quite rare.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

cegrover said:


> Bike topic: Are all the bikes in this thread 29ers?!?!?!?!


Oh my, if they are what kind of slicks can I find to fit?


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## 77speed (Nov 28, 2006)

*Raleigh?*

I recently found a Raleigh Altimetric Tactic CX. It has 700c wheels, Suntour components, 38c knobbies and a flat bar. It's a steel frame, made in the USA. The only issue I see is that the derailer hanger is stripped and part of the front cantilever brake is missing.

Does anyone know anything about this bike? All I could find on the internet machine was a mention in the Museum of Mountain Bike Arts and Technology Raleigh timeline webpage that this line was introduced in 1991. It's described as "off-road oriented" and at a lower price. http://www.mombat.org/Raleigh.htm

The frame size fits me well, so I plan to make the needed repairs and use it on some local trails.


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## Elevation12000 (Jun 16, 2004)

Hi,

My 1st all terrain bike ......was a hybrid










Very luxurious 'of the shelf' hybrid bike. Carbon tubing in maintriangle, alu lugs, Hardtlite (steel) fork and tail. XT groupset, Syncros post and cockpit, Titanio seat, Conti cross tires... Actually it was way closer to a cyclecross bike than to nowadays 29" bike.

Btw it is called Koga Miyata TerraLiner Carbolite. It is the of the 92MY. The 93MY TLC looked like this and came with a then new groupset specifically develloped for hybrids. I believe it was called Shimano CX700.

Another way cool hybrid were the ones by Kuwahara, using carbon tubing with a titanium core. Very refined finishing. Also no savings on groupset: XTR!

A Klein Adept is of course a very sweet ride too. I actually think it my favourite Klein hands down.


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## randonneur (Sep 25, 2007)

*vintage Trek 7600 rider*

I have been riding a mostly stock Trek 7600 with Shimano CX400 drivetrain since about 1993. This was back when the 7600 was a made-in-USA aluminum beauty with brushed welds. I have 3 sets of wheels for it. It's raced cyclocross with 1.5" knobbies, it's ridden distance road tours with narrow slicks. I've even taken it out for some light singletrack with beginner riders (no, i don't recommend it for any technical riding!!!) Currently it's my commuter bike with full fenders, rear rack, and Cane Creek Ergo ends. (I strongly prefer the flat bar/gripshift shifter combination, and the Ergo ends are heaven to behold).

The only complaint i have is that there isn't quite enough tire clearance for the new "29er" fat tires. And why did Shimano discontinue the CX400 / CX700 groups? These were superb drivetrains!


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

If anyone needs 700d tires, I came across one or two at a local used bike store a while back that could be had for cheap. I'd be willing to pick them up if anyone wants them.


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## Matt H. (Sep 14, 2004)

1 cog frog said:


> I have searched the old posts on the subject, and I am liking what I saw there. I am interested in seeing any other photos of any performance hybrid/700c Mt. Bikes from back in the day. Whether you currently own them, or have old pics, no matter.


Here's a Giant Innova I rehabbed a while back. It struck me as a very capable bike, sort of a worthy predecessor to the 29er era. Would have also made a great loaded tourer. I considered putting drop bars on it but decided to keep it original...


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Here's a pic of a Bianchi Project 7 I came across.


From 29"er lust

Really is unfortunate that that....'saddle' and stem have been put on the bike. These, as opposed to a few of the hybrids placed on this thread, really were big wheeled mountain bikes. And I'm still looking for one of these!


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## jimgskoop (Apr 13, 2006)

Trying to track down info on a frame I saw in passing...Does anyone know anything about a Gary Fisher model, probably from mid/late 1990s, looks like a MTB (sloping, long TT) but fit 700Cx45ish wheels/tires, steel frame in gray and green colors? Long shot I know...


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Archangel said:


> Here's my 1995 Klein Adept hybrid with full Deore XT M737 parts spec.
> As you might know the Adept is an Adroit on 700c wheels: it has the same multiple butted tubing and 2" downtube but lacks Adroit's boron/carbon reinforcements.
> This one has a special-order "Coral Reef" paintjob.


Wow, that must be Klein's way of cutting to the chase, huh? Why bother with knobbies when you can make a bike that only takes road tires, ha!


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## bucktruck (Jan 8, 2006)

jimgskoop said:


> Trying to track down info on a frame I saw in passing...Does anyone know anything about a Gary Fisher model, probably from mid/late 1990s, looks like a MTB (sloping, long TT) but fit 700Cx45ish wheels/tires, steel frame in gray and green colors? Long shot I know...


Funny, as I was just going to ask the exact same question! I believe you're referring to the Fisher Sphynx. My roommate in college (early '90's) used to work at a Fisher dealer, and apparently the owner was fairly tight with Gary Fisher, so they used to get weird one-offs, prototypes, and demo bikes in fairly regularly. The one my roommate had, and eventually bought, was green with yellow lettering, had a full XT group with drops and bar-cons, and rode like a dream. I'm pretty sure it was a prototype, and that the later production models were gray and green, like you mentioned.

I'm actually looking to build a bike in this spirit, as I've got some period and not so period correct parts that would work well. Sure, I could just get a Soma or Surly cross frame, but I'd like to find an older frame to work with.

On a side note, I completely forgot about the Mountain Goat Route 66. Maybe I should go knock on Jeff Lindsay's door and see if he has any lying around.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

bikerboy said:


> Wow, that much be Klein's way of cutting to the chase, huh? Why bother with knobbies when you can make a bike that only takes road tires, ha!


It'll take 38's. W/ fenders.


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## Archangel (Jan 15, 2004)

jeff said:


> It'll take 38's. W/ fenders.


The Adepts came originally with Ritchey Megabite knobby tires. Klein claimed the Adept will fit 700c 41mm tires.
And there was an option to order the bike with a custom Control Tech stem and road bars effectively making it a cyclocross bike.


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## ssulljm (Sep 3, 2006)

*700c Ritchey p-23*

I rode this bike today, up Tunitas Cr rd, Star Hill rd, Native Son rd, dropped down through Kings Grove back to Tunitas Cr.
3 hr loop, with the tafoni stone gleaming in the daylight.
The P-23 was originally TR's bike, and originally had 26' wheels.
I traded him some in kind value items for the bike, had him rebraze the Canti boss's to fit a 700c wheel.
This supple climber+descender is couch like on the drop, snappy like a goat on the climbs.
Flats are extremely rare, and mainly have come from contractor crap on the pave'
The last pic of the Tafoni is dubbed "Jaws" by me...


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

Saw a Project 5 up at a friend's shop tonight. Exage parts, but nice looking frameset. Unfortunately said it was owned by a tool, oh well. 

It was too small for you Marty anyway.


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## Retrocowboy (May 16, 2006)

I like your bike, I'm a beam rider too, and have wondered what a 700c/29" beam bike would be like since I'm a 29er fan as well. Check out pics from this years' Keyesville Classic, (search Keyesville afterglow), I raced mine downhill too!


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

1 cog frog said:


> I have searched the old posts on the subject, and I am liking what I saw there. I am interested in seeing any other photos of any performance hybrid/700c Mt. Bikes from back in the day. Whether you currently own them, or have old pics, no matter.
> 
> Specialized Crossroads
> Diamondback Overdrive/ Overdrive Comp
> ...


I'm liking everything posted so far. My question: many moons ago Waterford cataloged a bike called RSE, road sport extended. Would that be considered a hybrid? I believe it was frame only.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*Update*

I had totally forgotten about this thread until it was resurrected. I actually found a Diamondback Overdrive frame fork and headset on ebay after the initial post. I tried to make the Schwin Crisscross posted above work, but it barely takes a 35c tire, and is a bit too big for me.

The Overdrive is all built up with new and old parts. Not too concerned about period correct on this one. But I did get some decent tires to fit (with only a pinch of clearance)front and rear.

Toe overlap is one problem with the bigger front tire, but other than that, the bike is a blast to ride. Once the snow melts for good(if it ever does) I will take it out for the maiden trail voyage 

Spec is as follows:
DB Overdrive Frame and fork (original)
Tioga headset (original)
Zoom Stem (period correct, not original)
Salsa 17 deg handlebar, 36T chainring, and Flip Off skewers
Grab On grips
XT thumbshifter and rear deraileur (1X7)
Ringle Moby Deuce seatpost
Specialized saddle
Bontrager Superstock wheel set
Avid SD 5 v-brakes and levers
WTB Exiwolf front tire
Continental Vapor rear tire
Specialized Strong Arm cranks
UN72 bottom bracket

I know this post is useless w/o pics :nono: , I will snap a couple and post them tonight!

frog


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

As an aside, a few modern hybrids can be converted to 29ers. Fuji had their Monterey model last year which comes stock with 700x45C tires and has lots of excess clearance to run another 10mm of width tires. Kona has their Smoke 2-9 "city" bike which is a bargain for a full rigid geared 29er at $450. Unfortunetly neither the Kona nor Fuji have disc mounts. Louis Garneau has several this year, stock is 40C but there's room for about 55mm width of tires. The lower price ones have V-brakes mounts only, the higher models get disc-mounts only. They range from $400-700.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

djmuff said:


> In the questionable "performance" category, here's my 1991 Cannondale SH400. It's my rain bike, and my get-around-town commuter when I have errands to run or a decent distance to ride. Or if I want to get their fast. Love the big wheels. I swapped out a few parts, like the seat, cranks & pedals, and the bar/stem/shifter combo, but left the rest of the Suntour bits. It's fun bunny-hopping curbs on this.
> 
> View attachment 360218
> 
> ...


I've never been fond of Cannondales. Your bike looks great though. Maybe it's the "Pre Beer Can" sized down tube. Newer models look odd with the huge down tubes. Yours is very graceful OTH.


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## ssulljm (Sep 3, 2006)

*91 700x35c Fisher , argile*

from 91' a 700 x 35 c bike with purple argile 
From G Fisher's photo collection.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Cool.


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## Luther (Aug 29, 2004)

*Trek 7900*

I think this bike fits into this category. I have not had a chance to try it on any real singletrack yet. It is a Trek 7900. I believe it to be the last year they made it. It has a mix of LX/XT Grip shift Xray 8 speed and it's a fun little bike, but my 1991 S Works gets all of my saddle time.


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## jimgskoop (Apr 13, 2006)

Luther said:


> I think this bike fits into this category. I have not had a chance to try it on any real singletrack yet. It is a Trek 7900. I believe it to be the last year they made it. It has a mix of LX/XT Grip shift Xray 8 speed and it's a fun little bike, but my 1991 S Works gets all of my saddle time.


It sure does, IMHO. Carbon-fiber main tubes, right?


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*700c, carbon, sweet!*

Hmm carbon, very nice bike. How big a tire can you stuff in there?

frog


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## Luther (Aug 29, 2004)

It is 700c but I do not know how fat of a tire will fit yet but there appears to be room for at least a narrow 29er tire (1.9.)

Oh and yes it does have CF main tubes. It is pretty light in stock form. This is exactly how I bought the bike. I haven't touched it .....yet.


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

1 cog frog said:


> I had totally forgotten about this thread until it was resurrected. I actually found a Diamondback Overdrive frame fork and headset on ebay after the initial post. I tried to make the Schwin Crisscross posted above work, but it barely takes a 35c tire, and is a bit too big for me.
> 
> The Overdrive is all built up with new and old parts. Not too concerned about period correct on this one. But I did get some decent tires to fit (with only a pinch of clearance)front and rear.
> 
> ...


I soooooo want one of those! Good work!


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

Here's the last riding pic of my Overdrive Comp from fall Barbie Camp 2006. Soon after I gave the frame and fork to my buddy Ken. I got around 50,000 miles out of it and the only things original by the time of this pic were the frame, fork, and seat collar. That bike saw me through years of hard commuting, touring, and off-road riding. It had 3 repaints and at least 5 totally different parts kits over the years.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

Here's the last riding pic of my Overdrive Comp from fall Barbie Camp 2006. Soon after I gave the frame and fork to my buddy Ken. I got around 50,000 miles out of it and the only things original by the time of this pic were the frame, fork, and seat collar. That bike saw me through years of hard commuting, touring, and off-road riding. It had 3 repaints and at least 5 totally different parts kits over the years.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

700D classic...GT Tachyon. This one will finally get some riding this year as the original owner only put on about 50 miles the the first 18 years. Somebody had wanted better pics in an earlier posting on this bike. For those of you not familiar with the 700d size and this model... it was the early version of a 650B, just three millimeters different in size. 1.4 slicks or knobby's and 2" knobby's were available for this size wheel. The flip flop quill stem and 2x4 multi-position dropouts were also unique features of the Tachyon. This one is all original spec Suntour XC LTD w/Suntour Command shifters, Araya RM-20 rims in 700D size.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

gm1230126 said:


> For those of you not familiar with the 700d size and this model... it was the early version of a 650B.


What makes you think 700d came before 650b?

edit: Wow. I just realized something. The last three posts I've seen of yours have been coming right out of your a$$. Totally inaccurate, made up information every time. Why do you make stuff up when you don't know!? Great job! Granted, this time the made up information you are spewing is somewhat insignificant, the other times were not.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

Fillet-brazed said:


> What makes you think 700d came before 650b?
> 
> edit: Wow. I just realized something. The last three posts I've seen of yours have been coming right out of your a$$. Totally inaccurate, made up information every time. Why do you make stuff up when you don't know!? Great job! Granted, this time the made up information you are spewing is somewhat insignificant, the other times were not.


I think everyone knows 650B dates back to WWII and 700D doesn't. But no need to get so hostile over some wheels. So, he's not as well versed as you are. How many of us are? Still, his bike is nice even if he doesn't know much about the wheels.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

CS2 said:


> I think everyone knows 650B dates back to WWII and 700D doesn't. But no need to get so hostile over some wheels. So, he's not as well versed as you are. How many of us are? Still, his bike is nice even if he doesn't know much about the wheels.


This goes far beyond the wheels. The main point here is that he likes to make stuff up and present it as fact, when in reality he's entirely clueless about the topic at hand.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

Ok let me say it differently.....700d preceeded the current 650b movement as it relates to mountain bikes. I was working in a bike shop in the late 70's and 80's and am fully aware that the euro's were making and riding 650b touring bikes way, way back. Yes...650b was on many of the charts in Sutherlands :thumbsup:


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

gm1230126 said:


> Ok let me say it differently.....700d preceeded the current 650b movement as it relates to mountain bikes. I was working in a bike shop in the late 70's and 80's and am fully aware that the euro's were making and riding 650b touring bikes way, way back. Yes...650b was on many of the charts in Sutherlands :thumbsup:


ah, you went and did your research just like last time I called you out on your entirely misleading/innacurate info regarding the Ritcheys.

700D was not the "early version" of anything. It was nothing more than an amazingly dumb idea. And of course it preceded the modern 650B interests - so did everything else that existed prior to 2005.

650B was brought back (not inspired by 700D) to allow better fitting bikes for short riders that wanted a bigger wheel. It also allows for better full suspension geometry.

Anyway, good to have you back with us on the forum.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

Why the hostility? I just don't get it  

Welcome back GM.....DLTBGTY.....:thumbsup:


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

da'HOOV said:


> Why the hostility? I just don't get it
> 
> Welcome back GM.....DLTBGTY.....:thumbsup:


First off, I really like the guy -I just have this fondness for him. Not sure why.

Second, I despise the type of people who make up thier own stories and info for the purpose of looking smart.

Third, dispersing this innacurate info as facts does nothing but breed _more_ misinformed idiots.

Fourth, I've read 3 of GM's posts in the last few weeks and each one has been the same thing - made up stories. He's 3 for 3. Better keep a close eye on this guy. I think maybe he should stick solely to decoding GT's overseas serial numbers. Even if he is making stuff up on that topic, nobody will know/care.

Oh and Stan, ITYABFI! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

Fillet-brazed said:


> This goes far beyond the wheels. The main point here is that he likes to make stuff up and present it as fact, when in reality he's entirely clueless about the topic at hand.


Dude, it's an internet forum, 99.9% of the stuff you read is BS. Chill out...


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Slimpee said:


> Dude, it's an internet forum, 99.9% of the stuff you read is BS.


Sounds like you mainly read the GT threads?

I'm on a mission to reduce that percentage elsewhere in the vintage world.


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

Depending on which hemisphere you live in, this thread is now caught in a clockwise or counter-clockwise spiral.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*Pull Up!!!!*

Attempting to salvage what was a great thread :thumbsup: , anyone have an idea of what size seatpost clamp the DB Overdrive frame takes? Mine is at home and the calipers are here at school. Seatpost is 26.8, is the clamp 28.6 or bigger? Thanks

frog

BTW, keep the pics coming, I have enjoyed seeing all the variety of bikes posted thus far!


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

wv_bob said:


> Depending on which hemisphere you live in, this thread is now caught in a clockwise or counter-clockwise spiral.


More internet junk. Everyone knows that the corliolis effect happens too slowly to effect the spiral of a thread. j/k.


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## ssulljm (Sep 3, 2006)

*beamer*

Downhill history has Jeff Enos winning the Veteran division (35+) UCI sanctioned World Downhill Championships at Durango in 90, on the Softride Beam.
If I remember right, he had a suspension fork on his steed.
Nice pics on the Keyesville(Geezeville) retro gang of lovable goofballs.
JS



Retrocowboy said:


> I like your bike, I'm a beam rider too, and have wondered what a 700c/29" beam bike would be like since I'm a 29er fan as well. Check out pics from this years' Keyesville Classic, (search Keyesville afterglow), I raced mine downhill too!


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> This goes far beyond the wheels. The main point here is that he likes to make stuff up and present it as fact, when in reality he's entirely clueless about the topic at hand.


Kind of like how you repeatedly insist that Ritchey only outsourced TIG work to Japanese builders for one year, 1986 I believe, even though he stated this in 1988?



Tom Ritchey November 1988 interview said:


> To keep up with demand for my bikes, I use some Japanese expertise while maintaining quality control. TIG welding is a refined technique. Some of the best welders aren't in the United States, but in Japan and even Taiwan. Over the years I've had welding done domestically and in Japan, and right now I'm getting the highest quality welds I've ever had from Japan...The TIG-welded [frames] are preassembled in Japan, then shipped unpainted and unfinished to me. I add the braze-ons and bridges myself.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

IF52 said:


> Kind of like how you repeatedly insist that Ritchey only outsourced TIG work to Japanese builders for one year, 1986 I believe, even though he stated this in 1988?


Repeatedly insisted? I got my info directly from Tom's mouth. Maybe he was off a year.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Well they're both wrong anyway. Neither seems to understand the history of either wheel/tire size as it relates to bikes in general.

Fillet-brazed in wrong in that 700D actually was not a silly idea since nobody else produced a full knobby 2.1" width 650B tire at all anywhere on the planet during the early 90s and that was when the original diamondback overdrive and other of these early performance hybrids were in vogue among various mainstream manufacturers and when some racers were having success with them on selected courses (like the cactus cup). GT simply decided to create a new wheel size and get panaracer to make them tires for it to try and offer something that wasn't simply another 700C hybrid/cx bike with wider tires. Had they expanded it past two models and not given up after only a couple years (as did everyone else) then it probably would have stuck around and been adopted by other brands. Especially had they applied it to other flat-bar mountain bikes models like the Zaskars and Avalanches as well. 

gm1230126 is wrong in that the 650B WAS produced in a full 2.1 inch knobby in the late 70s and had it not been so hard to obtain when the first custom mountain bikes were being produced in california by Ritchey and Breezer, then the old balloon tire bike 26 x 2.125" size tires and wheels would never have been adopted by the early mountain bike pioneers. Remember... these were builders with CX and road backgrounds... they very well understood the advantage to bigger wheels and would have preferred using a 650B knobby had there been more than one brand (Nokian) making them and who was using almost the entire production run of those tires been going to fill an existing contract in the USSR. Nokian wasn't interested in increasing production for just a few hundred more tires per year so when the soviet contract ended, and the mountain bikers had moved onto another tire size, the 650B molds ended up being destroyed.

Furthermore, when Kirk Pacenti decided to go exploring an in-between tire size, he could just have easily have gone to the 700D size instead of 650Bs, but there were still rims available for the later option (and he only had enough money to order tires to be made in the size, not rims also) from many builders including Sun. As pointed out, they're within 3mm in bead-seat diameter of one another (700D is bigger), and he went to the same tire company that made the 700D tires in the first place to make his Neo-Moto 650Bs. There were several other in-between sizes of historical significance he could have chosen to make his new tires in, 650A is a 590mm, 650C is 571mm. The former would put its bead seat diameter almost perfectly in the middle between 26" mtb wheels at 559mm and 700c wheels at 622mm (31/32mm differences). The latter is common on smaller road bikes/tri bikes so there's a whole host of rims available to test with again though most would be too narrow for fat tires. So of four choices available, he went with the one which had both rims, and tires close to the correct size still being produced.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> Well they're both wrong anyway. Neither seems to understand the history of either wheel/tire size as it relates to bikes in general.
> 
> Fillet-brazed in wrong in that 700D actually was not a silly idea since nobody else produced a full knobby 2.1" width 650B tire at all anywhere on the planet during the early 90s and that was when the original diamondback overdrive and other of these early performance hybrids were in vogue among various mainstream manufacturers and when some racers were having success with them on selected courses (like the cactus cup). GT simply decided to create a new wheel size and get panaracer to make them tires for it to try and offer something that wasn't simply another 700C hybrid/cx bike with wider tires. Had they expanded it past two models and not given up after only a couple years (as did everyone else) then it probably would have stuck around and been adopted by other brands. Especially had they applied it to other flat-bar mountain bikes models like the Zaskars and Avalanches as well.
> 
> ...


No, you're wrong D8. 700D was dumb with their concept and timing. If you can't understand why then there's no reason to bother. You can see the market thought it was dumb as well.

I know the history of 650b quite well thank you. It actually sounds like you read one my past posts for your own info. Here it is from 2007:

_27"/650b has already been done. Tom Ritchey made 12 bikes with this size wheel (of which I've luckily got one) right at the point when purpose-built mountain bikes started to be built. Tom had heard about the Marin thing going on over the bridge on 26" wheels and he thoght 650b would do the trick and built a few up. Rumor has it GF got one too. Tom said he really liked that size and since at that point there were no aluminum 26" rims available it was a huge improvement.

The only problem was the tires were a little hard to get and only about 1.75" wide or so. They imported Nokian Hakkapalita (sp?) tires from Finland, but sometime soon after this mtb thing started happening, Russia ordered Nokian's entire production of the tire and that was the end of it. Then aluminum 26" rims happened with Ukiah and Araya and that was that._

And based on other stories I've heard from others, some of these details might not even be entirely accurate. Memories can fade.

I have personally spoken to both mtb builders that made 650b "mountain bikes" in the late 70s - early 80s, Jim Merz and Tom Ritchey. I own a bike from Tom and the accompanying rare Finish tires.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Repeatedly insisted? I got my info directly from Tom's mouth. Maybe he was off a year.


Yeah, repeatedly.

Perhaps he was talking about the complete bikes that were imported into Oh' Canada.

When Earl Bob ordered his Ascent Comp in 1988 or 89, he told Earl and our manager both that his TIGed frames were assembled in Japan and that he only finishes them (bridges, braze-on, seat stays to seat tube fillet).


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

IF52 said:


> Yeah, repeatedly.
> 
> Perhaps he was talking about the complete bikes that were imported into Oh' Canada.
> 
> When Earl Bob ordered his Ascent Comp in 1988 or 89, he told Earl and our manager both that his TIGed frames were assembled in Japan and that he only finishes them (bridges, braze-on, seat stays to seat tube fillet).


Ok, repeatedly. Glad you're paying attention, Michael.

Yeah, the TIG'd in Japan think is obviously common knowledge. The question is when did it end. Tom told me around 87. Sometimes old dates get blurry though. The catalogs do reflect a change in build location at some point.


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

IF52 said:


> Yeah, repeatedly.
> 
> Perhaps he was talking about the complete bikes that were imported into Oh' Canada.
> 
> When Earl Bob ordered his Ascent Comp in 1988 or 89, he told Earl and our manager both that his TIGed frames were assembled in Japan and that he only finishes them (bridges, braze-on, seat stays to seat tube fillet).


I too have talked to TR directly, asking about my '89 Ultra. He replied that he may have tig'd that frame himself as he had all his frames made in his shop starting some time in '88 into the early '90's. He didnt say why he moved the frame production to the US but went on to talk about quality, etc. Then again this is TR were talking about and his memory seems to be fading about some facts/dates


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

kb11 said:


> I too have talked to TR directly, asking about my '89 Ultra. He replied that he may have tig'd that frame himself as he had all his frames made in his shop starting some time in '88 into the early '90's. He didnt say why he moved the frame production to the US but went on to talk about quality, etc. Then again this is TR were talking about and his memory seems to be fading about some facts/dates


There you have it, Michael.

So it went from '86 to sometime in '88. A little over 2 years and then all the bikes were made in Tom's shop and some TIG'd by Tom himself. That's just about exactly what I heard from the man himself.

Thanks kb11.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

kb11 said:


> Then again this is TR were talking about and *his memory seems to be fading about some facts/dates*


To be expected


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## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

i hate hybrids.


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## ameybrook (Sep 9, 2006)

I hate GTS. Especially the Hybrids.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

1 cog frog said:


> Attempting to salvage what was a great thread :thumbsup: , anyone have an idea of what size seatpost clamp the DB Overdrive frame takes? Mine is at home and the calipers are here at school. Seatpost is 26.8, is the clamp 28.6 or bigger? Thanks


Not to derail this fine pissing contest and all that, but I have an actual answer for you. I think they're actually a bit oversized like 29.0 ID. After giving away my F&F I kept the collar because I didn't have another 28.6 collar. Long story short it doesn't work with my current 28.6 frame. I never had a problem tightening it down on the Overdrive Comp, but it's a no go on my other frame. I don't know if it was speced different or just stretched over the years, but mine's a bit oversized.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

The problem with hybrids is that they don't do anything well. Get a road bike for commuting and a mountain bike for riding. The inbetween bikes are for people that don't like to do either.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

sfgirlonbike said:


> The problem with hybrids is that they don't do anything well. Get a road bike for commuting and a mountain bike for riding. The inbetween bikes are for people that don't like to do either.


or a road bike for riding and an mtb for commuting.


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

Did anyone here pick up this Ebay Adept?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=280328432594


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## AG1 (Jun 27, 2004)

I saw that bicycle - it is a particularly atractive example of a "performance hybrid". Anybody who could hate something like that must not have a sincere appreciation of bicycles.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

sfgirlonbike said:


> The problem with hybrids is that they don't do anything well. Get a road bike for commuting and a mountain bike for riding. The inbetween bikes are for people that don't like to do either.


You;d better tell the nations bike shop owners that. I assembled 60 for a friend last week. Stopped by to pay him a visit this afternoon and he only had 28 remaining. The Gary Fishers sure go together a ton nicer/easier than the Specialized models.


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## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

AG1 said:


> Anybody who could hate something like that must not have a sincere appreciation of bicycles.


i'm just here for the chicks. if it works for you, have at.


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## djmuff (Sep 8, 2004)

I want this thread back on hybrids. Though DeeEight's post was nicely informative. And GM's Tachyon is really clean.

I understand the hate on hybrids, but I think they are great bikes. And you can't argue with how they sell. A typical cyclist can look at a hybrid and say "it's not as fast as a road bike." Or they can say "you can't REALLY take it off-road." But that's missing the point. A hybrid isn't supposed to be as fast as a road bike or as rugged as a mountain bike. They sell because they are comfortable with their upright position and mountain bike-style geometry. And with their 700c wheels and good-sized tires, they offer smoothness and speed. My hybrid hauls ass. I bunny hop curbs. I launch off speed bumps. Would I take it on a century ride? Hell no. But around town running errands or whatever, it's way faster than a road bike. I can jump over stuff.

I recently upgraded the wheels and deraillerurs on my SH400 to XT. And I added a rack. I really like this bike.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

I think there is a big difference between the hybrid bikes of the '90s and the predecessors to the 29er. Hybrid bikes were the 90s what the sport-touring bike was in the '70s. It was the same multi-function over performance and fashion but held it's roots in MTBs and not road racing machines. They are awesome bikes for those people that need a bike for commuting and gravel path riding, maybe even the occasional MS150 or similar ride.

The 700c MTBs were designed as serious off-road machines that took advantage of the larger diameter wheels benefits. If you're riding fully-rigid the larger wheel really does shine. When these bikes first appeared maybe only 30% of performance MTBs were selling with sus forks. In the following years the forks got better and cheaper and the advantages of 700c/29er wheel lessened.

They are two different machines for different uses and both have both fine and poor examples. I'm actually a fan of both styles and see something like a well designed urban hybrid bike as THE bike for a large portion of the non-cycling population. These are the people that are intimidated by shops and "real cyclists," but they are the key to wide cultural acceptance of bicycles.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

djmuff said:


> I want this thread back on hybrids. Though DeeEight's post was nicely informative.


I thought it was funny how he basically took my words from an old post on the 29er forum to tell me about the history of the 650b wheel that I supposedly didn't know. Doesnt get any better than that. 

Hybrids are fine and dandy if that's what works for you. Performance hybrid though is kind of an oxymoron unless you start having races from the grocery store to the library (or maybe an uphill race, but that's not really a hybrid either).

They are not the predecessor to the 29er though as was said - totally different goal and purpose.


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

*yeah..totally...*

I thought that was funny too... ....


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

da'HOOV said:


> I thought that was funny too... ....


a lot of the subtle stuff on these mtbr boards goes right over many heads unless you've been here a long time. I think most know D8's style though.

And just for clarity, that info was straight from TR when I asked about the 650b history. It's nowhere else on the interweb. Go ahead and try to find it.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

gm1230126 said:


> You;d better tell the nations bike shop owners that. I assembled 60 for a friend last week. Stopped by to pay him a visit this afternoon and he only had 28 remaining. The Gary Fishers sure go together a ton nicer/easier than the Specialized models.


You're right. But I never said they didn't sell.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

sfgirlonbike said:


> You're right. But I never said they didn't sell.


I wonder if a "Performance Minivan" would sell.


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## djmuff (Sep 8, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I wonder if a "Performance Minivan" would sell.


They do.The HHR SS is a good example.

On topic, here's a photo of a Yokota Ahwahnee.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*Real Mtn. Bikes not hybrids*

I was not mtn. biker when the original Diamondback, Bianchi and Specialized models hit the scene. But as the current owner of a 93 DB Overdrive, I can easily see why they had a hard time taking off. Rigid, 700c wheels would have been fine, if a tire with some volume existed. I have never ridden the 700X45c Panaracer smokes, but I have the absolute biggest tire I can stuff between the chainstays, a *28*X2.1 Continental Vapor (which measures a touch over 1.9 mounted on a Bontrager superstock wheelset.

After my first real ride on the trails, it is a touchy ride to say the least. It grips well, but has an unforgiving (not supple) casing with the pressure up enough to keep from rubbing and pinch flatting. The rear end wandered all over the place in the rough. It just was not confidence inspiring.

Up front I was able stuff a WTB exiwolf 29X2.3 (measures 2.1 on the same rim) which is a fairly high volume tire, and the front end behaved nicely.

I am used to riding this trail on a rigid 26 single speed, so the experience was not unfamiliar, but the 26 in. tires had a lot more give because they were much wider/higher volume.

I think if say a 2.1-2.3 tire had existed for the 700c wheels, the idea would have taken off much sooner. As it was, that tire did not exist until '99 I believe, thus these bikes were never able to shine the way they could have.

All in all the Overdrive is a keeper, I just need to learn how to finesse the rear end a bit more:thumbsup:

frog


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

*1 cog frog* back in those days lots of folks were running 1.7-1.9 tires because they were "faster and lighter." A 2.1" tire was a "BIG tire at the time. The Smokes were a little on the small side, but not that far off normal. In general I ended up using 38c CX tires. Those worked just fine for most PacNW single-track and fire roads.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Yeppers...the 700x41C that the specialized crossroads came with for example wasn't that different in width from what many pro xc riders were using... the panaracer smoke lite 1.9s for example. Ritchey offered their Z-max treads in three widths (1.9, 2.1 and 2.35), specialized offered most of their tires in only a 1.95 size at the widest (the more extreme being the sole exception). Tioga was all about the 1.75 and 1.95 sizes. Not to mention that going to the 700C format increased the actual volume of air and contact patch of rubber slightly. So they ride better than a similar size width of 26" tire.


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## dh1 (Aug 28, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I wonder if a "Performance Minivan" would sell.


It does. Caravan Sport changed name to the SXT in 2004, and it's one of their more desirable minvans. Same engine, bigger wheels, stiffer suspension, etc. Performance is a matter of perspective


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

dh1 said:


> It does. Caravan Sport changed name to the SXT in 2004, and it's one of their more desirable minvans. Same engine, bigger wheels, stiffer suspension, etc. Performance is a matter of perspective


Wasn't there a stock turbo charged Caravan for a few years, or maybe a Ford mini van, I can't recall. I remember Grassroots Motorsports doing a story about one somebody was bracket racing with a few years ago.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

IF52 said:


> Wasn't there a stock turbo charged Caravan for a few years, or maybe a Ford mini van, I can't recall. I remember Grassroots Motorsports doing a story about one somebody was bracket racing with a few years ago.


Kinda like turning a 747 into a fighter plane. Yeah, it'll shoot bullets now, but...


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## Luther (Aug 29, 2004)

I think it's interesting that no one has thrown up a Bridgestone XO-1 or a Specialized Rock Combo. They are basically the inverse of these but with the same purpose, to be an all around bike.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

*Instant Hybrid.*

I know it's not a true hybrid, or is it?


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Kinda like turning a 747 into a fighter plane. Yeah, it'll shoot bullets now, but...


Naw, that would be more like turning a cargo plane into a ground attack aircraft ala C130 into AC130. Hotrodding a minivan is much more laughable.


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

IF52 said:


> Wasn't there a stock turbo charged Caravan for a few years, or maybe a Ford mini van, I can't recall. I remember Grassroots Motorsports doing a story about one somebody was bracket racing with a few years ago.


There was definitely a Dodge turbo minivan. Also, don't forget the mighty mid-engine, supercharged Toyota Previa with available all-wheel drive...


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

Almost 100 posts and not a single Rock n Road?


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

cegrover said:


> There was definitely a Dodge turbo minivan. Also, don't forget the mighty mid-engine, supercharged Toyota Previa with available all-wheel drive...


Or the many, many VW buses with hopped up motors or shoehorned Porsche flat 6s.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

mainlyfats said:


> Almost 100 posts and not a single Rock n Road?


Yeah, I noticed that too. The was even a wide-ish tire to go with it.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Or a VW Synchos with a superchaged VR6. There's nothing like being passed at 80 plus on Vail Pass by a mid 80's VW Waserboxer.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

jeff said:


> I know it's not a true hybrid, or is it?


Hybrid or not it's a really nice bike.


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## PaintPeelinPbody (Feb 3, 2004)

back from a few pages over...

I'm really surprised 700C Tourers and hybrids aren't anymore popular. 

Ever since I saw the above Koga Miyata Terraliner, I've been thinking of ways of reproducing such a beast with a short stem, flat bars, and center pull brakes. 

I've got a 700C road bike without space for knobbies, and I've got numerous hard tail bikes that I'm afraid won't fit 700C without serious work.

Spending $150 on a hybrid bike may fit the bill.

So keep this topic rolling.


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## al415 (Mar 17, 2007)

My wife's early 90's Trek hybrid is in our basement, untouched since it was new. It has a full easton tubeset and a complete Deore DX group, ODI Tomac grips... it's kinda cool. White with purple decals.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

al415 said:


> My wife's early 90's Trek hybrid is in our basement, untouched since it was new. It has a full easton tubeset and a complete Deore DX group, ODI Tomac grips... it's kinda cool. White with purple decals.


Pics!


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## jimgskoop (Apr 13, 2006)

sfgirlonbike said:


> The problem with hybrids is that they don't do anything well. Get a road bike for commuting and a mountain bike for riding. The inbetween bikes are for people that don't like to do either.


So what would you tell folks who ride CX bikes then, hmmm...?

Also: The only place the "do anything well" comes from is the rider, not the bike. I was in Santa Rosa watching a CX race a few months back, and one of the winningest riders was riding what looked like a flat-bar "hybrid", and he was bunny-hopping all the barriers like nobody's business.


__
https://flic.kr/p/3286508343


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## jimgskoop (Apr 13, 2006)

Fillet-brazed said:


> No, you're wrong D8. 700D was dumb with their concept and timing. If you can't understand why then there's no reason to bother. You can see the market thought it was dumb as well.


Someone with many years in the industry told me that GT's 700D size might've been an attempt to circumvent the high import duties that were (then?) being charged on MTBs...see first comment at this link

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=24414998&postID=446617241698957938


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

jimgskoop said:


> So what would you tell folks who ride CX bikes then, hmmm...?
> 
> Also: The only place the "do anything well" comes from is the rider, not the bike. I was in Santa Rosa watching a CX race a few months back, and one of the winningest riders was riding what looked like a flat-bar "hybrid", and he was bunny-hopping all the barriers like nobody's business.
> 
> ...


Well cross bikes are totally different than a hybrid. They function as one but they are not built like one.

And of course, a great rider could take the crappiest huffy and do great stuff with them. It would be funny to watch too.


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Now that I'd like to see, and ride in!


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## rockhound (Dec 19, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Kinda like turning a 747 into a fighter plane. Yeah, it'll shoot bullets now, but...


You mean like turning a KC-130 into an AC Spectre Gunship?


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## JDELUNA (Mar 31, 2007)

jeff said:


> I know it's not a true hybrid, or is it?


What is the model of that bike ??? Looks prety nice. :thumbsup:


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*Early Manitou 700c forks*

After looking over this thread again, I am curious about the Manitou 700c forks. Shiggy said they were a production fork (response to a ? on the 29er board), and were found on some Trek hybrids. What was the axle to crown? How much travel? Anyone want to hook me up with one?

Were they just a normal Manitou 3 or 4 with longer legs to accomodate the bigger wheels? Did anyone else make a fork for these early big wheel bikes?

I know the Marzocchi's didn't come out until '02-'03 but by then production 29ers were a reality and decent 29" tires were also available.

I would love to hear any additional info anyone might have about this early "29er" (or "28er" if you want to get technical )stuff.

thanks

frog


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Those 'forks' were crap. I had the 26" version. Travel was 1.75 inches if you were lucky. For the life of me, I can't remember the name of them though. Comp? Sport? I dunno. My legs snapped off near the crown. MABman had some on his overlooks BITD. If you're looking for a decent early 29"er fork, Look for a White Brothers CX-1. I had one that worked surprisingly well.


From The Bikes
Photo taken Summer of 1999 at the first 12 hour race I did.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*Good to know*

Thanks for the info Martini. I actually saw the CX-1 on White Brothers site, and was intrigued. I would love to score one of those! Another hunt for obscure old bike stuff, sweet:thumbsup:

I love that they had a 29er fork so early on, were they working with Wes Williams, or was the effort just the usual ballsy forward thinking of White Brothers?

Any more pics?

frog


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## MMcG (Jul 7, 2003)

I second the recommendation of the CX-1. I owned one briefly and it was great. I also briefly owned one of their older DH forks - dual crown and it was also great.

I wish I could say that for a couple of the bw. series forks I've had - those equaled - not so great at all.

But if you can find a CX-1 - snag it!


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

what did you do to that truck?:eekster:



~martini~ said:


> Those 'forks' were crap. I had the 26" version. Travel was 1.75 inches if you were lucky. For the life of me, I can't remember the name of them though. Comp? Sport? I dunno. My legs snapped off near the crown. MABman had some on his overlooks BITD. If you're looking for a decent early 29"er fork, Look for a White Brothers CX-1. I had one that worked surprisingly well.
> 
> 
> From The Bikes
> Photo taken Summer of 1999 at the first 12 hour race I did.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

The CX-1's can be found on ebay for cheap. I still run 2 of them to this day. Light, simple and stiff. 17 3/4" ac. The early Marz were nice also. Heavier of course and the steering precision was not as good as the White but it was plush. I think it was called the Marathon. It was also common to see converted linkage forks like Girvin, Amp, Look ect.
Jeff


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Am I missing something? Truck?


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

~martini~ said:


> Am I missing something? Truck?


i followed the link to your album of photographs and there is a truck falling by the side of the road...


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## MABman (Oct 5, 2008)

~martini~ said:


> Photo taken Summer of 1999 at the first 12 hour race I did.


Not that it really matters Marty but there are a few clues to that photo that date it later than 99'. The motoraptor tire on the front wasn't available then and neither was the CX fork.


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## MMcG (Jul 7, 2003)

colker1 said:


> i followed the link to your album of photographs and there is a truck falling by the side of the road...


Woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

maybe 2k then? I don't have the original date code on the photo, hence the guess. I guess I'm not as old school as I thought. I did have the bike in 99 though. 

re: the Element. Slipperyer roads than I thought, plus a bit too much speed, plus an increasing radius corner, equals martini slipping off the side of the road. No significant damage to the vehicle. Just my pride.


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## jimgskoop (Apr 13, 2006)

1 cog frog said:


> After looking over this thread again, I am curious about the Manitou 700c forks. Shiggy said they were a production fork (response to a ? on the 29er board), and were found on some Trek hybrids. What was the axle to crown? How much travel? Anyone want to hook me up with one?
> 
> Were they just a normal Manitou 3 or 4 with longer legs to accomodate the bigger wheels? Did anyone else make a fork for these early big wheel bikes?
> 
> ...


I think I remember reading that the 700C Manitou forks had ~50mm of travel. At one point, I had 6-7 Manitou 3/4 forks...I think I'm down to 3-4 now. Still have one that I need to rebuild with Englund Air internals! None of them are 700C though.

Bruce Gordon modified some Rockshox forks to fit 700c/29er wheels on some of his early monster-cross-type bikes. He machined a custom, taller crown to increase the axle-to-crown distance, and also a matching arch to reposition the brake studs for the 700C wheel.


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## MABman (Oct 5, 2008)

jimgskoop said:


> He machined a custom, taller crown to increase the axle-to-crown distance, and also a matching arch to reposition the brake studs for the 700C wheel.


Perhaps an earlier version with a tubular welded crown. Same color blue as that stem though!








Also that tire is the one that Bruce had made for his R&R. Not many of those around today I bet. Still makes one wonder where this all would be though if that had moved the sizing up to 2.1 instead of 1.75. But in all fairness they were taking as large a leap from the up to that point largest at best 1.5 700c tires?


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## jimgskoop (Apr 13, 2006)

MABman said:


> Also that tire is the one that Bruce had made for his R&R. Not many of those around today I bet.


You can still get them! $25 each, according to this page http://www.bgcycles.com/access.html


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## MABman (Oct 5, 2008)

jimgskoop said:


> You can still get them! $25 each, according to this page http://www.bgcycles.com/access.html


Ha, in fact after posting that it did pass through my mind that knowing Bruce and also the popularity of that tire that he still had some in the hopper, no doubt from the original batch!


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

i want those strapless clips! SO urbo-shwank!

martha!! where's mah skinnies? there's a new turbo-latte at starbucks ah need to pose wif!


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

*Hey MAB Man.*

How about some pics of some of those linkage forks? 
J


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## surly357 (Jan 19, 2006)

*1979 pearl pass.....*

the april 1980 issue of bicycling has an article by CK on the previous summer's pearl pass tour: "......26x2.125-inch balloon tires were the rule.......one rider from boulder showed up on his own design of a rough-tourer, a hand-built ten speed with 700c tires and very rugged construction......."

looks like the rider 6th from the right w/the red suspenders (?)


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## desmo13 (Jul 31, 2006)

I love my Hybrid. A Kona Dew I bought in '06? This bike has always been fun, and useful to ride. It's first mission was to pull a baby trailer, then a tag-a-long bike. It storms the MUT's, goes on vacations for exploring around new towns, and is (was) my commuter. Sure, I have all the bases covered, a Look road bike, a Santacruz XC bike, a Fixie I built myself, but this bike has always been a joy to ride.

But now it has a new mission....









I made it up into a CX bike from parts I had laying around, grinding my own bash guard, brakes off a 1988 stumpjumper, wheels from my older roadie etc.. 150 bucks is all I have spent (new tires, cables and housings and brake pads)

I am going to try my hand and race a CX season here in the Bay Area.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Specialized Crossroads in 1991 had 700x41 tires, which are 1.6s. There were other tires back then bigger than a 700x38. Nokian had 700x47 tires in both touring and winter (spiked) models.


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## Helmsdini (Oct 23, 2008)

Can I play?

I picked this early 90's GT Arette up off my dad for free. It was way too big for him and -basically served as a garage ornament for the past 15 years or so. The original bike was pretty grandpa looking. Very high flat bar, junk acera components and the micro-compact hyperdrive C front chainring setup.

I took it apart, cleaned and re-greased everything, put new brake cables and housings on, and removed all of the shifting componentry.

I scored the following parts from Ebay, mostly used and cheap:
Avid shorty 4 cantis/ coolstop pads
Cane Creek brake levers
old school trek/ ICON 25.5 ergo drop bar

Picked up the following at the LBS:
SS crank, chainring, etc.
700x45C panaracer smoke gumwall tires (10$ ea!)

and I had the rockwerks SS conversion and the Gussett bachelor in my parts box.

All told, I could not be more thrilled with it- especially for what I have invested. I have raced a few 'cross events with it and it is as much at home in the dirt and mud as it is on the road. It weighs a ton, but it rides like a Cadillac (good old US made steel frame) and maintains momentum well. Not sure how "performance" oriented it was originally intended, but I beat on it like a race bike and it hasnt let me down yet.


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

That's a very nice re-purpose!


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

Those Panaracer Smoke 700x45's were any amazing score for 10 a piece.


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## Helmsdini (Oct 23, 2008)

gm1230126 said:


> Those Panaracer Smoke 700x45's were any amazing score for 10 a piece.


:thumbsup: I went digging in the back of the shop. I know the guys there really well and ride with them. They had them just sitting there collecting dust- I am sure they are vintage, and since they were an oddball size they figured they would never sell them. I mocked them up in my frame and they are the absolute biggest I could squeeze in there. I have just a hair over 1/4" clearance on the chainstay bridge.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

From what I remember the 700x45C Smokes were first introduced in 1991. (Stock tire on the DB Overdrive bikes) and were maybe offered through 96 or 97 in the aftermarket.


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## Matt H. (Sep 14, 2004)

1 cog frog said:


> After looking over this thread again, I am curious about the Manitou 700c forks. Shiggy said they were a production fork (response to a ? on the 29er board), and were found on some Trek hybrids. What was the axle to crown? How much travel? Anyone want to hook me up with one?
> 
> Were they just a normal Manitou 3 or 4 with longer legs to accomodate the bigger wheels? Did anyone else make a fork for these early big wheel bikes?
> 
> ...


This '97 Trek U.A.V. 2 is my most recent project, and it has the Manitou 700c. Very short travel, but really light weight. I like this bike:thumbsup:


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

Cool bike Matt. What size is the frame?.....we may need to talk 

That fork is sweet.



Steve


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## Matt H. (Sep 14, 2004)

eastcoaststeve said:


> Cool bike Matt. What size is the frame?.....we may need to talk
> 
> That fork is sweet.
> 
> Steve


Thanks Steve! It's an 18, standover is about 31 inches. The fork weighs just a hair over 3 pounds. Its off-road performance might not compare well with a modern 29er fork, but for its purpose, it's fine. Plus, it looks cool with the nude carbon frame. Plenty of clearance on this bike for any tire. I can't wait to give it a proper tryout. Speaking of which, how's your 8900 coming along?


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

Matt H. said:


> Thanks Steve! It's an 18, standover is about 31 inches.


Uh oh.....sounds like my size...you might have to let me know if it's ever headed for our local CL  .

Looking forward to a ride report and some dirty pics.

The 8900 is definitely in the cue, but I'm not sure what my next build will be just yet.

Steve


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Performance Hybrid by JP Weigle. Pictures are atrocious. Unfortunately the bike is way to big for me. 71/72 geo with a 22.5 top tube, which would be fine, but the seat tube is 20 inches, I'd be much better with 18.










More here https://tastydirty.com/main.php?g2_itemId=2950


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Among the vintage bits I posted up for sale today is a Mag-series brace for running on a CX bike (the brace is extra tall and the studs are positioned for 700C rims). Presumably with the proper 29er tire and a solid bottom out stop added into the fork sliders you could have suspension too with one of these older bikes without needing to track down the even rarer Manitou or White Brothers 700C forks. Mag-21s are a dime a dozen on ebay.


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Those minicam's make that bike! Too big for you, too small for me.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

They are the icing on the cake, that's for sure. Lots of nice details, like the knife-edge filing on the dropouts, tight-radius fillets and fake lug. The super thin fork crown is cool too.


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

> Too big for you, too small for me.


Ohhhh.... Just perfect for me! Gorgeous.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Indeed--sweet Weigle. I'd be happy to give it a loving home closer to where it came from 
Always happy to take in a pink bike.


----------



## BundokBiker (May 15, 2004)

*Just found this gem*

I always told myself I'd never buy a bike that I couldn't ride, but I just broke that rule. 
Hard to pass on since the components are all original with low miles and the price 
was right. Now I just have to find a frame & fork that fit me and I can swap over all the
parts. Seat tube is 22.5 c-c and 24.5 c-t, this bike is tall and standover is 33.25". If
anyone comes across a GT Tachyon frameset that's in the medium range (17-18) and 
wants to trade or sell, please post it here.

Not as nice as gm's GT, the fork does not have the adjustable dropouts and it's not 
purple. Tires are original 700D x 1.4 GT CrossOver. Good thing 650B tires are now
available.


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## Matt H. (Sep 14, 2004)

Those Tachyons are pretty cool. I just noticed I lost the pics I posted earlier when I rearranged some photobucket albums. So here's some more pics of my 1997 Trek UAV 2 (recently sold) :








































































Here's how it looked before I got it, still in the bed of the seller's truck (with a 26" wheel up front no less):


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## rockhound (Dec 19, 2005)

Matt H. said:


> So here's some more pics of my 1997 Trek UAV 2 (recently sold) :


Nice looking bike.

Did they make steel versions that late in the game?


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

wow. I was pretty upset in some earlier posts in this thread. Sorry for bringing that here.

This goes back to the time when GM1230126 (or whatever it is) had just falsely accused some buddies and me of a sneaky, shady, conspiracy so I was taking it out on him here as I couldn't believe he had the gall to still be posting here after all that. Wrong place to do that on my part. 

Anyway, onward and upward. Keep posting the cool bikes. 

The Trek UAV looks pretty neat.


----------



## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*Thanks FB...*

I wondered how post had gotten derrailed so badly, but no hard feelings:thumbsup: .

Now that Trek UAV is pretty cool, how big a tire can you stuff in there Matt?

Looks like it would make a wicked commuter/fire road ripper. How's the ride?

It's funny how things come around. I started this thread after I scored my DB Overdrive and had ridden it a few times offroad. I am still looking for a White Bros CX-1 fork, but so far none have come up on the 'bay. If anyone has line on one, let me know!

After trying drop bars on the Overdrive, I decided to pick up a frame made for drop bars, and now I am waiting on the last thing to finish building my Singular Gryphon (which I got from Martini:thumbsup: ) and now the Overdrive will take over commuting/trailer duty, and the Gryphon will be my main offroad ride.

Keep the pics coming, I love to see this thread re-appear every so often!.

frog


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## Matt H. (Sep 14, 2004)

Thanks guys for the nice comments on the UAV2. I couldn't resist picking that one up, even as sad as it looked at the time. It came together real nice, definitely fitting the "performance hybrid" title of the thread. Really light and solid ride, and could fit wide 29er tires front and rear (the rear stay dimensions looked just like comparable Trek MTBs of the same era). I might have kept it as my commuter, except that would mean replacing my beloved Bridgestone CB-Zip.


----------



## jimgskoop (Apr 13, 2006)

*Trek 7500FX or Trek 7.3 FX as Monstercross?*

Has anyone experimented with either the later models of the Trek 7500 (really the 7x00 series) or even the newer 7.3 FX frames as budget monstercrossers? A coworker just picked up a 2005 7500 FX for $200 in great shape, and I am impressed with what looks like tons of fat-tire clearance. Some of these bikes even have disk brakes, e.g.

http://www.bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeSpecs.aspx?ItemID=95739&Type=bike


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## al415 (Mar 17, 2007)

Since I posted about my SO's bike being "unmolested" I've tinkered with it a little. Everything was done with a view to making it more comfortable for her; moustache bars, brooks flyer and newer tyres. Sorry the phone's pictures are so poor:


----------



## Poikaa (Jun 10, 2010)

I hope this fits the Hybrid Theory.... Just recovered this Bianchi from the scrapper's pile and mostly there, just missing the rear wheel. I think the year to be around 1993..... Looking for a wheel! 

poikaa

Lousy cell phone image!


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*DB Overdrive update*

This bike was my main Mtb for a while, until I bought my Singular Gryphon.

Now the Gryphon has a Mary bar and the DB Overdrive is sporting the Salsa Woodchippers and, , V-brakes!

Still a fun ride, but it will mostly see commuting/light trail duty.
Build is pretty eclectic.

Some VRC (saddle, seatpost, crankset, frame/fork, headset)

Some modern (Bars, brakes, levers, wheels, tires)

Single speed for now because I'm too lazy to unwrap the bars and install the bar-end shifters and deraileurs!

Enjoy!

frog


----------



## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

Nice! I have off-and-on considered trying out CX and using my Overdrive Comp, but the Brahma bars are not allowed. As recently as a week ago, I was looking into dirt drops or Woodchippers for mine...good to see one already done. I was wondering about shifters, but I guess you avoided that problem.


----------



## Fred Smedley (Feb 28, 2006)

*My winter bike*

Cool thread, here is mine a Miyata Quickcross that originally had a flatbar. It has a aluminum front triangle, Chrome moly stays and fork. Not exactly a "performance" bike yet with the large inverted avocet's a incredibly comfortable ride.


----------



## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

1 cog frog said:


> This bike was my main Mtb for a while, until I bought my Singular Gryphon.
> 
> Now the Gryphon has a Mary bar and the DB Overdrive is sporting the Salsa Woodchippers and, , V-brakes!
> 
> ...


Still need that CX fork? I found one that might fit.


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## Matt H. (Sep 14, 2004)

1 cog frog said:


> ...Single speed for now because I'm too lazy to unwrap the bars and install the bar-end shifters and deraileurs!
> frog


Sweet-looking! Please post it again when it's all geared-up. With that crankset, it's begging to have its derailleurs back... Bar-end shifters will totally round out the package. :thumbsup:


----------



## Matt H. (Sep 14, 2004)

Another Trek Multitrack--a '94 7600. For a "hybrid," this bike rocked...


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*Gears...*

Yea, I need to stop being a slacker and just get the bar end shifters set up, as that is the only option with the current levers and brakes.

cegrover, if you are running canti's you could also use brifters, but for me, I already have the tektro levers for v's (as this bar setup came off my Gryphon which was running avid bb7's).

I will get around to it this winter, should be a good project to tackle. Maybe I will get the hang of wrapping bars if I get to practice a few times!

Keep the pics coming, I never tire of seeing the various setups of these bikes. I got to thinking, many of these bikes could be used as "monstercross" rigs, especially if they will hold bigger tires. Maybe we should invade the 29er forum!

frog


----------



## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Like 



Fred Smedley said:


> Cool thread, here is mine a Miyata Quickcross that originally had a flatbar. It has a aluminum front triangle, Chrome moly stays and fork. Not exactly a "performance" bike yet with the large inverted avocet's a incredibly comfortable ride.


----------



## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

1 cog frog said:


> cegrover, if you are running canti's you could also use brifters, but for me, I already have the tektro levers for v's (as this bar setup came off my Gryphon which was running avid bb7's).
> 
> I will get around to it this winter, should be a good project to tackle. Maybe I will get the hang of wrapping bars if I get to practice a few times!
> 
> ...


I think we need another debate about whether or not these bikes are 29ers!

On brifters - it looks like I would need to track down some RSX units to stay 7-speed, but it won't be much easier to find 7-speed bar-end, so I guess I could go either way. My Overdrive is almost 100% stock and I'd like to keep it that way, as much as possible. After all, it's running XC Pro...


----------



## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

cegrover said:


> I think we need another debate about whether or not these bikes are 29ers!
> 
> On brifters - it looks like I would need to track down some RSX units to stay 7-speed, but it won't be much easier to find 7-speed bar-end, so I guess I could go either way. My Overdrive is almost 100% stock and I'd like to keep it that way, as much as possible. After all, it's running XC Pro...


There is no debate about the 29"er thing. Get a tape measure out and check your hybrid wheel diameter sometime.  Besides, that (non)debate doesn't belong here.

The 29"er forum also already has a huge monstercross thread where lots of bikes like the ones shown here have already been posted.

Overdrives are pretty cool rigs. Hope you enjoy yours!


----------



## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*Agree...*

The comment on re-opening the 29er argument was absolutely tongue in cheek. I know my bike isn't a true 29er, because the Conti Vapors are labeled as 28x2.1 (more like 1.9 on my Bontrager superstock rims)

The Overdrive is a fun bike, but the limited tire clearance definitely holds it back from being *my* go to ride for serious mountain trails.

Not saying it's not capable, just not the best arrow in the quiver for *me*. Others opinions may vary, but to me this bike is a perfect light trail bike, and seems to beg for a dirt drop setup. I will love it, use it, and get many happy miles out of it!

Keep the pics/comments/history coming!:thumbsup:

frog


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## MABman (Oct 5, 2008)

*Rough Stoughing in the British Isles*

This is a link to a person of interest to those interested in early use of 700c offroad that showed up in the 29" forums today: http://clelandcycles.wordpress.com/history/

The Flickr account takes awhile to slog through but may be worthwhile if you have the time.


----------



## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

MABman said:


> This is a link to a person of interest to those interested in early use of 700c offroad that showed up in the 29" forums today: http://clelandcycles.wordpress.com/history/
> 
> The Flickr account takes awhile to slog through but may be worthwhile if you have the time.


I read too quick. I thought Cleland was Cleveland and got excited.


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## Pigtire (Jan 13, 2004)

Here is my Diamondback Overdrive Comp I bought as a frameset from a member here back in '04. I still use it as my commuter now.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*Nice!*

I like it. More details please. Frame size? It appears you did a re-paint. Frames looks like the only thing stock on there:thumbsup:

Curious how you ran your brake cables? Did you do full housing or use the original frame stops?


----------



## Pigtire (Jan 13, 2004)

1 cog frog said:


> I like it. More details please. Frame size? It appears you did a re-paint. Frames looks like the only thing stock on there:thumbsup:
> 
> Curious how you ran your brake cables? Did you do full housing or use the original frame stops?


Frame size is a 23(maybe 24) Yes, it had the original splatter paint job and I decided to powderocoat it black. Now I wished I kept the original paint job.:madman: I bought it as a frame and fork only so I have to slap some modern parts on there(except the rear tire which I think was the original Panaracer Smoke). No full housing is used, Btw. Just the orignal brake and derailleur stops.:thumbsup:


----------



## GrahamWallace (Oct 30, 2008)

MABman said:


> This is a link to a person of interest to those interested in early use of 700c offroad that showed up in the 29" forums today: http://clelandcycles.wordpress.com/history/
> 
> The Flickr account takes awhile to slog through but may be worthwhile if you have the time.


This is a photo of an 1981 Cleland Aventura prototype English cross country cycle. It shows a problem with putting big wheels on narrow flanged hubs. The wheel in the picture is fitted with 700c x 47 Nokia Hakkapeliitaa tire. This bike was designed by Geoff Apps whose long history in creating off-road bicycles goes back to the mid 1960's. Apps' Cleland bikes were more usually fitted with 650b x 2" Hakkapeliitta tires from Finland, and were manufactured between 1979 and 1984.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*Ouch!*

Have pics of the whole bike? Diggin those socks!

Like it!

frog


----------



## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

1 cog frog said:


> Have pics of the whole bike? Diggin those socks!
> 
> Like it!
> 
> frog


And the shoes. Some type of scuff guard?


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## GrahamWallace (Oct 30, 2008)

1 cog frog said:


> Have pics of the whole bike? Diggin those socks!
> 
> Like it!
> 
> frog


Here is a picture of the whole bike and Geoff Apps its designer. This goes to prove that Gary Fisher is not the only mountain bike pioneer who was / is a natty dresser.:thumbsup:


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Classic.


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

what year abouts is that? early 80's I assume?

very cool, tweed and bikes go together and is at the height of revivalist poserism these days.

just loving this pic!


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## eporter (Nov 12, 2007)

Anybody ride a Gary Fisher Zebrano? I picked one up. Looks to be mid 90s, Alivio Parts, 700x38 tires.

Nothing too special, but looks like a decent commuter. Lots of mounts.


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Picked this up (for free) recently and I've been having a lot of fun on it (Exage gruppo and all)!! 

Changed out the narrow bars, the pedals, tires, and seat and she was good to go. Don't think it had hardly been ridden over its ~18 yrs of life. Everything was still working perfectly and was a great build by the shop.

The big wheels are nice on a full rigid bike! This thing rides nicely.

Oh and changed out the front wheel to a narrower rim (MA-40) allowing that big 2.3 to fit through the fork. With the stock rim (a fair amount wider) it made the tire profile a little fatter and it slightly rubbed on the fork crown.



















Not a bad little backup/rainy day machine.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*Nice Score!*

Exiwolfs front and rear? Surprised they fit! That is a great score for free!

Look like it's getting plenty of use, just like it should be.

frog


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## rigidftw (Mar 21, 2010)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Picked this up (for free) recently and I've been having a lot of fun on it (Exage gruppo and all)!!
> 
> Changed out the narrow bars, the pedals, tires, and seat and she was good to go. Don't think it had hardly been ridden over its ~18 yrs of life. Everything was still working perfectly and was a great build by the shop.
> 
> ...


so that's your bianchi. nice! 
now that i've seen it, i'll cancel my vote for the moustache bars 
the chainstays look awesomely short.


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## Marrk (Jan 31, 2012)

*Teal Goodness*

I love riding this bike. Scored the frame at a thrift store and built it with some road and mountain parts I had laying around.


----------



## Fred Smedley (Feb 28, 2006)

*89 Miyata quickcross*

Old picture, now I am running a nicer shimano triple off a 86 MB2 along with a Rolf Vecture wheelset and a Dura Ace straight block 8 speed cassette which works good as a winter bike. 







</a>


----------



## MABman (Oct 5, 2008)

1 cog frog said:


> Exiwolfs front and rear? Surprised they fit! That is a great score for free!
> 
> Look like it's getting plenty of use, just like it should be.
> 
> frog


Nanoraptor in the rear it looks like. The DB OD I had would fit one also. Makes you wonder about if they had thought to make a "tire" back when.....

Should be your Keyesville bike Dave!


----------



## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*True*

I stuffed a Exiwolf in the front of my DB Overdrive as well, but it was TIGHT with major toe overlap. Best I can do in the rear is a Conti Vapor. May have to pick up a set of Nano's to try. Did you have to crimp the rear stays at all for the Nano?

frog


----------



## MABman (Oct 5, 2008)

1 cog frog said:


> Did you have to crimp the rear stays at all for the Nano?
> 
> frog


No, there was not alot of mudroom but definitely rideable and got ridden a bunch. One day while it was on the stand in Willits shop he got out the "das crimper" that he had just made and I used it on the seat and chainstays however. The bike is still being ridden to this day with no ill effects.

A friend got an OD comp and it didn't fit a Nano without crimping.


----------



## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Got out our NOS SR Litage frame for some pictures. We have one ATB frame, couple of forks and this frame. It accepts 700 wheels and has a few interesting features:










Replaceable derailleur hanger and a light mount? on the brake boss.









Internal cable routing and a hole for light wiring?









Cable exit and bolt-on fender mount?


----------



## datawhacker (Dec 23, 2004)

I didn't know you could fit a 700c wheel onto those. Might have to try it out on mine.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

datawhacker said:


> I didn't know you could fit a 700c wheel onto those. Might have to try it out on mine.


This is a 700c frame, we also have the 26" version. they must have made several different models.


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## datawhacker (Dec 23, 2004)

All I've ever seen in catalogs are 26" mountain and 700c road frames. Maybe it was a cross frame?


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

datawhacker said:


> All I've ever seen in catalogs are 26" mountain and 700c road frames. Maybe it was a cross frame?


Wondered about that but it looks like a light mount and drilling for wiring??


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## rigidftw (Mar 21, 2010)

First Flight said:


> Wondered about that but it looks like a light mount and drilling for wiring??


you mean that thing on the seat stay? that's were the dynamo goes.


----------



## datawhacker (Dec 23, 2004)

could have been a touring frame set up for cantilevers


----------



## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

rigidftw said:


> you mean that thing on the seat stay? that's were the dynamo goes.


There is a hole in the frame up near the head tube which I am guessing is for wiring. It could exit through the big hole at the end of the down tube near the bottom bracket.


----------



## babbalanja (Jan 20, 2008)

My wife's daily commuter.


----------



## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

Here is my "Baby carrier" now all XTR M900/M950, pretty fast and fun..


----------



## djmuff (Sep 8, 2004)

Just fixed this up earlier today. 1992 Trek 750 Multitrak. If I ever find one in my size, I'm keeping it. Always liked these old lugged Treks.


----------



## danec99 (Jul 22, 2010)

My 1989 Fisher HYBRID








I took off the original stem as it was super long (TT is as well.) I wanted bigger tires in it but the 35's I tried were too big. When I bought it in '89 I wanted a bike that was less likely to flat on the road but was lighter and less crappy than the Schwinn Mirada I was riding. I think older hybrids have a lot of use if you mess with them a little, flatten the bars and beef up the tires. For CX type riding I prefer flat bars and have two old MTB's as CX bikes. I got this Univega Via De Oro frame and have plans to make it into a dirt rider. Love that Bianchi Project 3 up top, nice bike.


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## gregster (Nov 16, 2014)

*Blue Collar Bianchi*

I've outfitted a few '90's cross bikes with new parts to accommodate a tall rider (me) with a moderate lean. My latest is a '91 Bianchi cross bike unfortunately named Boardwalk. It's one's of my favorites, having a 23" frame, whereas most are limited to 22". This one got a new seat, seatpost, stem, bars, shifters, cables, tires, and pedals. The white paint offered a new theme to riff.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*Diamondback Overdrive update*

I might as well update this thread, since my DB Overdrive has changed form again!

My wife bought me a pair of Bruce Gordon Rock n Roads tires for my birthday (she is amazing like that) so I decided to give the bike a makeover.

It's not done quite yet. I need to install the front derailleur, run cable and housing, and wrap the bars. I have ridden it with no front mech on a combo dirt road, singletrack, and road ride, and it is a rip!

I can't wait to get it finished!

I also scored a White Bros. CX-1 a while ago, and I just need to send it in to get it rebuilt, and a new steerer installed. I'm not sure if I'll ever put it on this bike, but you never know!


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

I could swear that the CX had a fresh rebuild before I bought it and I put low or no miles on it before I sold to you. I could be wrong though.


1 cog frog said:


> I might as well update this thread, since my DB Overdrive has changed form again!
> 
> My wife bought me a pair of Bruce Gordon Rock n Roads tires for my birthday (she is amazing like that) so I decided to give the bike a makeover.
> 
> ...


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## Austin Dave (Jul 7, 2010)

deleted by author


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

Thanks for refreshing my memory Jeff. I had forgotten that I bought the CX from you. Looks like all I need is a new steerer tube! Bonus! I don't know about the CX-1 on the Overdrive, but it's worth trying!

I'll post final pics when the Overdrive is all done.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

They're great forks. I still ride my other one on occasion. Tons of miles and no rebuild.


1 cog frog said:


> Thanks for refreshing my memory Jeff. I had forgotten that I bought the CX from you. Looks like all I need is a new steerer tube! Bonus! I don't know about the CX-1 on the Overdrive, but it's worth trying!
> 
> I'll post final pics when the Overdrive is all done.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

I'm mostly concerned about the difference in A-C from the CX-1 to the rigid fork. It's a couple inches IIRC. I'm hesitant to tweak the head angle that much. But if the bug bites me, I just might.

Thanks again!


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

I finally got the bars wrapped, and was even able to stuff a Conti Mountain King 2.2 in the rear end (it only measures about 1.75 on the Bontrager Superstock rims)! I still need to fiddle with the stem reach a bit, but it was a blast to ride! I apologize for the non drive side shot, but I was having too much fun riding to worry about the pic too much!


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

I just sent the CX-1 fork to MRP for a steerer replacement, and I got a set of Nano's to try. The front fits no problem, but the rear rubs on the chain stays. I was curious about crimping the stays a tiny bit to see if that would help. Any recommendations on how to do that "properly"? I know that's a loaded question!

This bike seems to be in a constant state of change, I am even trying to nail down the correct rise and reach for the stem so I can have Clockwork build me an LD stem.

I am going to try the CX-1 when it comes back, so I will post some more pics when I do.

frog


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## gregster (Nov 16, 2014)

*Cross-Wise*

When I hear hybrid, I think cross, steel cross. "Hybrids" are more modern, and usually have aluminum frames. I tried a Trek 7.2 FX, and though fast on pavement, it was a disaster off-road. 
My first cross bike was a 22" Schwinn Crossfit I bought new in '94. It's great and remains trouble-free after all these years jamming on urban and woody routes. 
It never occurred to me to look for something fancier until I started reading bike forums - but I remain pragmatic, leaning toward undervalued, capable bikes. It goes to reason that premium bikes are stolen more often, or at least, it stings more when they are. My less-than premium bikes never leave me wanting for more - they ride, shift, and brake as well as I'd hope - any change I make is done for the sake of comfort. Most of these have been fitted with taller stems, riser bars, and sprung seats to accommodate my 6-3 frame. 
The Kenda tires I like can be had for around $15, and I highly recommend their 38C Hybrid Knobby which is actually much wider, and runs great on street and dirt. The Hybrid Nimbus is a great urban tire, as well as the Kwest. 
I don't care that cross bikes (another name that's been co-opted) do nothing spectacular. I don't require them to be spectacular, and I never set out to do anything spectacular. Perfection is the enemy of fun. Have you seen the faces of people on their high-dollar speedsters? Their expression is usually grim. Here are a few that have brought a smile to my face for just being fun, and stylishly down-to-earth. (Kenda Hybrid Knobby, Schwinn Crossfit, Miyata Triple-Cross, Specialized Crossroads (3), Bianchi Boardwalk, Trek 7.2 FX)


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

That's commitment. I'm glad the fork ended up being used. 
For crimping clunkers I've used a 1 7/8 socket for the dimple and a sculpted soft wood block on the outside to protect the stay. A large pair of vice grips works if you can't fit it all in a vice. I've never tried this on chromoly though. 


1 cog frog said:


> I just sent the CX-1 fork to MRP for a steerer replacement, and I got a set of Nano's to try. The front fits no problem, but the rear rubs on the chain stays. I was curious about crimping the stays a tiny bit to see if that would help. Any recommendations on how to do that "properly"? I know that's a loaded question!
> 
> This bike seems to be in a constant state of change, I am even trying to nail down the correct rise and reach for the stem so I can have Clockwork build me an LD stem.
> 
> ...


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

jeff said:


> That's commitment. I'm glad the fork ended up being used.
> For crimping clunkers I've used a 1 7/8 socket for the dimple and a sculpted soft wood block on the outside to protect the stay. A large pair of vice grips works if you can't fit it all in a vice. I've never tried this on chromoly though.


I got the fork back and installed last night. It raises the front end a good bit, but I won't know how it rides until I get it all put together. I've been trying different tires, and found a couple that might work in the rear, so no crimping for now.

I made a set of adapters for drop bars to run a set rapidfire shifters I had.

I don't know what my obsession with this bike is. It have tried it so many different ways, and I can't seem to get it just right, but I keep trying. The jury is still out on whether I'm going to drop the coin for an LD stem, but this is the bike I'm using for a race in April:

The Wild Horse

Pics once it's put together.

frog


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## chawixtle (Mar 17, 2016)

Nice bikes, I got hooked on the hybrids with a trek multitrack, but the fit was not good for me.
I went on and now have
scott santa fe frame with drop bars
schwinn crisscross
and a fila branded frame.
700x38 tires on them.
great commuter bikes.


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## Tomato2 (Feb 3, 2017)

Hi folks, nice thread, nice bikes!

I'm trying to identify a steel touring frame I've had for about 15 years. It's become a favorite bike over the years with many different incarnations. I bought it at a local Canberra (Australia) second hand shop, frame and fork.

I've shown it to a few locals with no luck, including local builder Wayne Kotzur.

The serial number is M5KT01017. It's relatively light with a 1" threaded steerer, 130 rear spacing and it takes a 26.4 seat post which is a tight fit. The seat tube is slightly externally butted near the top.

Any info or suggestions on where to look or ask would be appreciated! Maybe one of the images reminds you of one of your bikes?

Latest upgrade is a set of carbon rims 

















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## thekid (Mar 13, 2006)

*Bike-tech MultiCross XT*

Hello everyone,

Here is an early 90's 700c MTB which you've likely never seen or heard of before, designed in Germany and made in Japan.









Markus Storck was the importer of Klein bicycles into Germany, back in the day. To compliment the Kleins in his portfolio, he created the Bike-tech brand, built around steel frames.

When this MultiCross XT came to me, it was equipped with Ritchey flat bars and stem, but when I saw the tallish head tube and smallish top tube for its size, I knew I was going to drop it.









I have run as wide as 700 x 50 Schwalbe Marathon Almotion tires in it so far, but really like the WTB Riddler 700 x 45 on it for capability on many surfaces.

For example, the action shots were taken at a recent cyclocross race, in which pavement, gravel, grass, dirt, mud, rocks, ice, snow and a water crossing were all in play, often simultaneously.









And yes, I am riding it with the BarCons in friction mode with the XT drivetrain. I missed out on a set of Shimano 7-speed bar end shifters as I was building it, but haven't really missed indexing much while riding the bike, and like the repetition of black on orange at the end of the bars. Next step: swap in a short cage rear derailleur.

Cheers,
The Kid


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## luisghernan (Jan 27, 2017)

*Shogun Trail Breaker III*

This is my ShogunTRail BReaker III, Cro-Mo handmade frame, my everyday ride to commute to my job and traffic-free go to market in the weekends.


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## gpnt (Apr 20, 2009)

*Answer Manitou 700c suspension fork help*



luisghernan said:


> This is my ShogunTRail BReaker III, Cro-Mo handmade frame, my everyday ride to commute to my job and traffic-free go to market in the weekends.
> View attachment 1120514


Just picked up a set,their first model from around 95,can anyone tell me if it is possible to remove the stanctions,I think I may need a second set of these.


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## corwin1968 (Oct 8, 2011)

1995 Trek 730 Multi-Track. The same model as my first adult bike, purchased in 1995 (I discovered it was too small so I found this larger version).

The bike I'm riding now is just a nicer version of this bike with added reach and tire clearance.


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

*1989 Alpinestars MTN XROSS*

Picked up this chromo 1989 Alpinestars MTN XROSS. A bit rough but salvageable. Room to easily clear 700x42mm without toe overlap because of a long toptube. Definitely more adventure/gravel oriented than 'cross.


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

I'm afraid I went full blasphemy on mine!









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eporter (Nov 12, 2007)

This Bridgestone XO-4 came into my life for a bit, but I sold it on. Was contemplating a fat tire build. Pretty nice stock setup for 1994.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

jmmUT said:


> Picked up this chromo 1989 Alpinestars MTN XROSS. A bit rough but salvageable. Room to easily clear 700x42mm without toe overlap because of a long toptube. Definitely more adventure/gravel oriented than 'cross.
> 
> View attachment 1356641


Very nice. I've been looking a bit at some old and cheap road bikes that I could fit wider tires on. But without seeing the bikes in person, hard to know what possibilities they have.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

thekid said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Here is an early 90's 700c MTB which you've likely never seen or heard of before, designed in Germany and made in Japan.
> 
> ...


Very nice. I bet it´s a high quality frame and seems the geo is really good.


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