# No lift ticket needed!



## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

No lift ticket needed - Rotwild announces the R.G+ FS electric downhill bike - Bikerumor

Looks like a blast!

-Walt


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Thanks, interesting. Couple of facts:
1) Individual says to look for bike at show on 8/31; article written 9/15.
2) Carbon fiber motor ---? (I know, he means the housing).


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Yeah, I don't get that (the carbon comment or timing) either. Riding up the service road/down the DH trails is probably (outside of moto trails) one of the few places I assume everyone here can agree there's absolutely no problem. 

I myself *like* riding the lift and making new friends, but this is a great alternative.

IMO this is also the direction e-bikes will be headed - aimed squarely at the younger/more aggressive rider.

-Walt


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

Walt said:


> Yeah, I don't get that (the carbon comment or timing) either. Riding up the service road/down the DH trails is probably (outside of moto trails) one of the few places I assume everyone here can agree there's absolutely no problem.
> 
> I myself *like* riding the lift and making new friends, but this is a great alternative.
> 
> ...


I wonder how many runs up your get. I mean if I am thinking of our of our local DH/Freeride trails here, it is probably a couple of miles of climbing up to around 3000' from the base at around 1400' so let's say 1400 feet of climbing to the trailhead, then a descending run down predator.

This would be on the fire road. How many passes could you get in? This seems like a lot of load, even with pedal assist, for an ebike to make more than 2 trips up. I don't have a lot of experience with these bikes but under load, hot day, up a steep fire road 3.5 miles and 1400 feet of climbing for each ride up, how many passes could you make? Would it be worth it considering the added cost, weight and complexity vs just riding up?


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

RC, agree, that trip is grueling; FME, I can perceive maybe two trips on on a downhill bike or three on an e-downhill bike; I'm old (in years) though.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

500Wh motor? Bike Rumor needs to get with the nomenclature. 

Hard to tell from the specs provided but I would guess that with a 500W motor like the Brose, probably peaks @ a bit higher, and a typical EU 36v 500+Wh downtube battery you can probably get 10 miles of full power uphill climbing in if you pedal along. Less if you don't, more if you back off on the e with more emphasis on the pedaling. Just getting one of the lead sleds uphill without a shuttle I agree is a direction that e mtb's will probably gravitate towards.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Yeah, Haibike is still making their 2 models of e-DH mtbs. It's a segment that is sure to grow especially as batteries improve.

Huge leaps in e-bike battery capacity demoed at Eurobike | electric bike reviews, buying advice and news

The first official Uphill Flow Trail was built this year at a bike park in Bavaria.

http://www.geisskopf.de/a_medien/downloads/geisskopf_sommerflyer_2016_web.pdf

I keep running into admittedly anecdotal evidence of 2-3x farther for a semi fit/fit rider on the same trails, so more laps will be possible.



> "Last time I attended a brand's demo I ascended and descended a mountain once in one hour 20 on my own steam. On the electric bike I hit the peak three times in one hour 40 and enjoyed three different descents," one dealer visiting Cube told us en-route to the airport.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

rockcrusher said:


> I wonder how many runs up your get. I mean if I am thinking of our of our local DH/Freeride trails here, it is probably a couple of miles of climbing up to around 3000' from the base at around 1400' so let's say 1400 feet of climbing to the trailhead, then a descending run down predator.
> 
> This would be on the fire road. How many passes could you get in? This seems like a lot of load, even with pedal assist, for an ebike to make more than 2 trips up. I don't have a lot of experience with these bikes but under load, hot day, up a steep fire road 3.5 miles and 1400 feet of climbing for each ride up, how many passes could you make? Would it be worth it considering the added cost, weight and complexity vs just riding up?


That is an important question - and dependent on the rider's weight. Once the battery is done, it would be a massive chore to pedal it up the mountain. Good looking bike though.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

JACKL said:


> That is an important question - and dependent on the rider's weight. Once the battery is done, it would be a massive chore to pedal it up the mountain. Good looking bike though.


Yes! This happened to my riding buddy, battery ran out of juice on a semi steep ascent back to the parking lot. He ended up pushing the bike.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

rockcrusher said:


> I wonder how many runs up your get. I mean if I am thinking of our of our local DH/Freeride trails here, it is probably a couple of miles of climbing up to around 3000' from the base at around 1400' so let's say 1400 feet of climbing to the trailhead, then a descending run down predator.
> 
> This would be on the fire road. How many passes could you get in? This seems like a lot of load, even with pedal assist, for an ebike to make more than 2 trips up. I don't have a lot of experience with these bikes but under load, hot day, up a steep fire road 3.5 miles and 1400 feet of climbing for each ride up, how many passes could you make? Would it be worth it considering the added cost, weight and complexity vs just riding up?


If you set the assist to eco and just spin at a slow pace, you could probably get 3-4 DH runs. But on "turbo" 2 tops!

On my 400wh battery, I average 23 mile @ 4300' elevation, when I set it to eco with a few DH sessions set to Trail (mid level assist)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

rockcrusher said:


> I wonder how many runs up your get. I mean if I am thinking of our of our local DH/Freeride trails here, it is probably a couple of miles of climbing up to around 3000' from the base at around 1400' so let's say 1400 feet of climbing to the trailhead, then a descending run down predator.
> 
> This would be on the fire road. How many passes could you get in? This seems like a lot of load, even with pedal assist, for an ebike to make more than 2 trips up. I don't have a lot of experience with these bikes but under load, hot day, up a steep fire road 3.5 miles and 1400 feet of climbing for each ride up, how many passes could you make? Would it be worth it considering the added cost, weight and complexity vs just riding up?


I wonder if places like this will offer charging stations so you cna charge it back up while you eat lunch....


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

Klurejr said:


> I wonder if places like this will offer charging stations so you cna charge it back up while you eat lunch....


That'd be sweet but if everyone was showing up on their e-bikes there would be no reason for a ski hill to be out there running the place. So it would either be someone out there selling kilowatts, some entrepreneur or you'd be riding it on trails that were just like the one we have here with a rode to the top and descending to the bottom and the nearest civilization twenty minutes away by car.

Honestly the dead battery thing would keep me away from e-shuttling. As Pinoy mentioned, once a battery is dead you are riding up hill and a really heavy bike. Hopefully their batteries are less variable them my cellphone which some days last all day and others has died in a few hours. I can never figure out what is going on.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

As a rental model this could make some sense. Run the battery down, take it back for a new one. Just like some mountains rent out pedal Dh sleds.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Klurejr said:


> I wonder if places like this will offer charging stations so you cna charge it back up while you eat lunch....


Most chargers are only 2A which means a minimum of a 4 hr. charge time probably more like 5. It will be a long lunch. The best thing would be to have 3 batteries on hand to swap out with and have them charging while using the others, that way you could probably get a good day in the saddle in. Due to the fact that each brand has a different battery system it could get ugly trying to please everyone at the base of the hill that wants to swap out.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

Bigwheel said:


> Most chargers are only 2A which means a minimum of a 4 hr. charge time probably more like 5. It will be a long lunch. The best thing would be to have 3 batteries on hand to swap out with and have them charging while using the others, that way you could probably get a good day in the saddle in. Due to the fact that each brand has a different battery system it could get ugly trying to please everyone at the base of the hill that wants to swap out.


It takes about 3.5 hours to fully charge the battery (from empty on a 110V outlet) on my bike. If you "top up" during lunch break, say about 1 hour. You should get 30-35% battery charge. If you climb the service roads on eco, you could easily get 2 additional DH runs on that.

If the place got a 240V outlets, you can recharge a lot quicker too.

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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I was thinking of "regen" mode like my Turbo S, but I can do a 4 mile downhill and only gain 2%! I thought it would be more. (This is pavement, Turbo S is a road bike)


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